--- Log opened Fri Nov 01 00:00:19 2019
--- Day changed Fri Nov 01 2019
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2019-11-01T00:21:14 < kakipro> without context?
2019-11-01T00:21:15 < kakipro> no
2019-11-01T00:24:12 < buZz> Limiting upload to end of memory segment, 65536 bytes
2019-11-01T00:24:18 < buZz> ooo much better
2019-11-01T00:24:26 < buZz> kakipro: this helped ; https://hastebin.com/danaxovuki.sql
2019-11-01T00:24:35 < kakipro> yes
2019-11-01T00:24:40 < buZz> i didnt know it was some default convention of labelling dfu targets :)
2019-11-01T00:25:33 < kakipro> does anyone need uninterrupted DC source?
2019-11-01T00:25:57 < buZz> kakipro: any idea how i could make dfu-util read the whole 512kb of that line i pasted?
2019-11-01T00:26:08 < buZz> instead of just that first 4*16k
2019-11-01T00:26:26 < kakipro> I have no idea what configuration that is
2019-11-01T00:26:29 < kakipro> lemme see
2019-11-01T00:26:35 < buZz> me neither, i never worked with a stm32 at all
2019-11-01T00:27:21 < kakipro> try to replace that multiplication
2019-11-01T00:27:40 < buZz> 4*16K is ~65536 bytes yeah
2019-11-01T00:28:13 < kakipro> I have no idea what tool this is
2019-11-01T00:28:22 < buZz> dfu-util 0.9 
2019-11-01T00:28:34 < buZz> but yeah, if you have another dfu software to advice, i'm all ears :)
2019-11-01T00:28:41 < buZz> this is just debian 10's apt install dfu-util
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2019-11-01T00:30:22 < kakipro> where are you buZz?
2019-11-01T00:30:37 < buZz> netherlands, why?
2019-11-01T00:30:40 < kakipro> europros are sleeping
2019-11-01T00:30:49 < kakipro> maybe
2019-11-01T00:30:53 < buZz> i can speak former-european 
2019-11-01T00:31:03 < buZz> just say color instead of colour , etc
2019-11-01T00:32:21 < kakipro> they have done dfu stuff
2019-11-01T00:32:38 < kakipro> ask in evenings if you continue having problems with it
2019-11-01T00:32:59 < buZz> i'll just keep trying ;)
2019-11-01T00:34:11 < buZz> i wonder, maybe i should just count forward from 0x08000000 by 65536 , etc
2019-11-01T00:34:21 < buZz> and concatinate the files later
2019-11-01T00:39:18 < Steffanx> Dutchland? Ohno. More of those stroopwafel fanatics
2019-11-01T00:40:18 < Steffanx> So my card seems to work fine kakipro . Will do a proper benchmark tomorrow
2019-11-01T00:40:27 < kakipro> yes
2019-11-01T00:40:41 < kakipro> as I said my card is also probs fine
2019-11-01T00:40:50 < Steffanx> Who knows
2019-11-01T00:40:54 < kakipro> but motherboards have really wild pci-e implementations
2019-11-01T00:41:06 < kakipro> bridges and shit
2019-11-01T00:41:12 < Steffanx> Tried other slots? Other pc?
2019-11-01T00:41:21 < kakipro> 1 pci-e 8x
2019-11-01T00:41:33 < Steffanx> Hm
2019-11-01T00:41:43 < kakipro> well I don't really have any other machine with free 8x
2019-11-01T00:42:30 < kakipro> i don't care at the moment
2019-11-01T00:43:36 < buZz> Steffanx: overrated diabetic generating illness that cookie is ;)
2019-11-01T00:43:38 < buZz> still nice though
2019-11-01T00:45:22 < Steffanx> You're a fake dutchy
2019-11-01T00:45:31 < buZz> yeah, i was born in amsterdam
2019-11-01T00:45:35 < buZz> not some countrytown
2019-11-01T00:45:45 < Steffanx> Aha
2019-11-01T00:45:59 < kakipro> Steffanx actually gave diabetus to one person here
2019-11-01T00:46:11 < Steffanx> Was it you?
2019-11-01T00:46:13 < buZz> bottled?
2019-11-01T00:46:19 < kakipro> crt Steffanx
2019-11-01T00:46:26 < Steffanx> No, he's fine
2019-11-01T00:46:30 < buZz> diabetes by CRT sounds severe
2019-11-01T00:46:42 < buZz> i guess thats what happens when you are MONITORED
2019-11-01T00:46:44  * buZz ducks
2019-11-01T00:48:36  * con3 eats nuts
2019-11-01T00:56:25 < kakipro> ethernet smoke detector
2019-11-01T00:56:38 < kakipro> poe smoke detector
2019-11-01T01:04:41 -!- catphish [~catphish@unaffiliated/catphish] has joined ##stm32
2019-11-01T01:15:29 < kakipro> musics?
2019-11-01T01:22:41 < buZz> well, makes no sense to me
2019-11-01T01:23:05 < buZz> the device i'm trying to read the fw off of is on my laptop here ; https://nurdspace.nl/images/b/b6/LGR100-outputtingfromlaptop.JPG
2019-11-01T01:23:44 < catphish> morning
2019-11-01T01:24:38 < zyp> hmm, what stm32s are good for cheap usb designs nowadays?
2019-11-01T01:25:06 < zyp> f1 is too old and shitty, f0 doesn't have SCB_VTOR so those are both out
2019-11-01T01:25:38 < zyp> l052 is what I used last time, but I don't really need the low power stuff
2019-11-01T01:25:46 < catphish> zyp: my question too, l0 is the obvious choice
2019-11-01T01:26:03 < catphish> but there's also the g series now that i know nothing about but should be super cheap
2019-11-01T01:26:28 < catphish> l0 is still the best value afaik even ignoring the low power requirement
2019-11-01T01:26:40 < zyp> g0 seems like a sane replacement for f0, but IIRC last I checked the parts with USB weren't out yet
2019-11-01T01:27:05 < karlp> f3 and some of the newer f4s ar every cheap these days too.
2019-11-01T01:27:32 < karlp> f303 and f411 f401 and f410....
2019-11-01T01:27:42 < zyp> those are too old to have crystalless usb though
2019-11-01T01:27:43 < karlp> all need external crystals though iirc, so fuck em
2019-11-01T01:27:56 < karlp> well, gotta wait for g4 then?
2019-11-01T01:27:59 < zyp> hmm, arcin is f303, lemme compare prices
2019-11-01T01:28:00 < catphish> the cheapet stm32 on mouser are STM32L011F4P6 and STM32G030J6M6
2019-11-01T01:28:02 < catphish> so yeah
2019-11-01T01:28:50 < catphish> in fact, l0 g0 and f0 are all cheap, not much in it
2019-11-01T01:29:05 < catphish> there's no one chip that stands out
2019-11-01T01:29:24 < zyp> looking at my invoices, I paid just over twice as much for f303 as for l052
2019-11-01T01:29:32 < catphish> unless you want china prices, in which case i guess te f103 still rules
2019-11-01T01:29:50 < catphish> personally i'd absolutely choose the l0
2019-11-01T01:30:22 < catphish> (or l4 for more intensive applications)
2019-11-01T01:31:12 < englishman> G4 ftw
2019-11-01T01:31:21 < englishman> zyp: g0
2019-11-01T01:31:27 < englishman> for cheap usb shit
2019-11-01T01:31:32 < catphish> i'm annoyed, just realised that i massively overspec'd the (10uF) capacitors on my USB power bus, going to have to redesign the board to take them down from 1206 to 0603 1uF
2019-11-01T01:32:03 < catphish> oo g0 has usb?
2019-11-01T01:32:06 < zyp> englishman, are the usb parts out yet?
2019-11-01T01:32:17 < englishman> probably they released a bunch of new shit
2019-11-01T01:32:27 < englishman> it's just the small package stuff that isn't out yet
2019-11-01T01:32:48 < catphish> i'd love to shave a couple of £ off my l433 design
2019-11-01T01:32:57 < kakipro> cheap ethernet enabled mcu?
2019-11-01T01:33:06 < kakipro> do you approve lpc17?
2019-11-01T01:33:14 < zyp> englishman, hmm, I don't see it
2019-11-01T01:33:15 < englishman> g4
2019-11-01T01:33:47 < zyp> kakipro, I'd pick f407 for ethernet unless I had a reason to use anything else
2019-11-01T01:34:40 < catphish> i'm going to try to produce my first actual (home made) batch of boards next week, got enough parts for about 15 of them
2019-11-01T01:35:14 < catphish> stm32cube has no g0 with usb device
2019-11-01T01:35:35 < zyp> I don't see any on the homepage either
2019-11-01T01:35:45 < catphish> but the g431 looks cool
2019-11-01T01:35:45 < zyp> but the g0 family overview claims some parts should have it
2019-11-01T01:35:51 < englishman> it might be called something else
2019-11-01T01:35:57 < englishman> like FDCAN
2019-11-01T01:35:59 < kakipro> lpc17xx is half the price of f407
2019-11-01T01:36:03 < englishman> way to troll the filters bro
2019-11-01T01:36:09 < kakipro> it's vomit though
2019-11-01T01:38:16 < kakipro> it's like really old mcu with m3 core slapped into it
2019-11-01T01:38:38 < catphish> hmm, why am i using l433 and not l412?
2019-11-01T01:38:47 < kakipro> iirc. it's like lpc2000 or something but with m3 core
2019-11-01T01:39:17 < karlp> zyp: I was just going on th eprices that places like seeed have on them for doing assembly with
2019-11-01T01:40:22 < kakipro> lpc17 is so old it hase jtag
2019-11-01T01:44:10 < catphish> i'm so confused, i've been looking at usb stm32's for weeks, how did i fail to notice that the l412 does everything i need from the l433 but cheaper :(
2019-11-01T01:44:24 < catphish> it's probably even pin compatible
2019-11-01T01:44:33 < qyx> kakipro: you can use f107 too...
2019-11-01T01:44:52 < qyx> if you wan to go full retard with lpc
2019-11-01T01:45:43 < kakipro> I see it's cheaper
2019-11-01T01:51:21 < kakipro> now quickly copy some reference circuit
2019-11-01T01:51:30 < kakipro> I don't want to figure the basic setup
2019-11-01T01:51:34 < kakipro> *figure out
2019-11-01T01:52:05 < zyp> hmm
2019-11-01T01:52:27 < zyp> when I think about it, I should probably use the 64-pin l052 that I've got, to get rid of it :p
2019-11-01T01:53:01 < kakipro> what is that?
2019-11-01T01:53:12 < zyp> if I ever end up making the shit I'm picturing
2019-11-01T01:54:01 < kakipro> are we happy with STM32F107VCH6?
2019-11-01T01:55:04 < kakipro> wow
2019-11-01T01:55:11 < kakipro> almost made mistake there
2019-11-01T01:55:15 < kakipro> BGA
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2019-11-01T01:56:18 < zyp> I'm considering making a base board with a usb hub routed to a bunch of pcie sockets and a bunch of IO boards that can be put into each slot
2019-11-01T01:56:47 < zyp> to make some modular iot shit
2019-11-01T01:57:08 < zyp> stick some SBC in the host slot and whatever IO you need in the device slots
2019-11-01T01:57:09 < kakipro> you lost me at usb hub routed
2019-11-01T01:58:06 < zyp> just picture a usb hub with pcie sockets instead of usb sockets
2019-11-01T01:59:03 < zyp> idea being that everything just plugs together instead of having a pile of cables hanging off a SBC
2019-11-01T02:00:30 < kakipro> SBC?
2019-11-01T02:00:40 < zyp> rpi and similar
2019-11-01T02:00:47 < kakipro> yes
2019-11-01T02:01:31 < zyp> so anyway, rpi has an extension header, right?
2019-11-01T02:01:41 < zyp> you can get a ton of various shit to go on it
2019-11-01T02:02:03 < zyp> various transceivers, various radios, etc…
2019-11-01T02:02:30 < kakipro> shit
2019-11-01T02:02:33 < zyp> which is convenient, just grab an rpi and grab whatever extension board you need
2019-11-01T02:02:36 < kakipro> yes
2019-11-01T02:03:04 < zyp> the problem is that few of them stack, so if you want more than one, that doesn't work very well
2019-11-01T02:04:45 < zyp> I seek to fix that by having a base board with several slots that extension boards can be put into
2019-11-01T02:05:10 < kakipro> yes
2019-11-01T02:05:22 < zyp> and usb is nice and cheap
2019-11-01T02:05:56 < kakipro> ypu patch raspian to support it?
2019-11-01T02:06:05 < zyp> support what? usb?
2019-11-01T02:06:13 < kakipro> your bord
2019-11-01T02:06:23 < kakipro> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qORYO0atB6g
2019-11-01T02:06:28 < kakipro> musics just musics
2019-11-01T02:06:35 < zyp> what patches would be needed? logically it'd just be all usb
2019-11-01T02:07:10 < zyp> and I'm not aiming to make my own SBC, maybe just an adapter board for a module or something
2019-11-01T02:07:27 < kakipro> pls
2019-11-01T02:07:32 < kakipro> draw it
2019-11-01T02:07:44 < kakipro> I don't understand english, sorry
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2019-11-01T02:09:18 < bitmask> hmm
2019-11-01T02:09:19 < bitmask> https://i.imgur.com/SUYRTUG.png
2019-11-01T02:09:23 < qyx> I ak fully fdollowing you unlike kakipro, mr zyp
2019-11-01T02:09:36 < qyx> and unlike my mandroid keybaord
2019-11-01T02:09:55 < qyx> zyp: I consider usb too much power hungry for iot
2019-11-01T02:09:57 < dongs> bitmask what is that autism
2019-11-01T02:10:16 < dongs> does failmega644 even support USB
2019-11-01T02:10:18 < bitmask> heated jacket 
2019-11-01T02:10:28 < bitmask> thats just a usb phone charger
2019-11-01T02:10:46 < dongs> are you at least using one of those DCP ID chips
2019-11-01T02:10:53 < aandrew> bitmask: is this a usb host?
2019-11-01T02:10:54 < bitmask> yea
2019-11-01T02:10:58 < dongs> aandrew: no lol
2019-11-01T02:11:00 < qyx> I designed a modified subrack (2" instead of 3", 80mm instead of 160mm deep)
2019-11-01T02:11:04 < dongs> just a 5V source looks like
2019-11-01T02:11:11 < qyx> with pcie sockets
2019-11-01T02:11:18 < bitmask> tps2514
2019-11-01T02:11:32 < zyp> qyx, depends what part of iot you look at, I figure this would be useful for gateways and the like
2019-11-01T02:11:57 < qyx> 5V, CAN/CANFD and a 100Base-T1 on a fully passive backplane
2019-11-01T02:12:00 < qyx> I2C too
2019-11-01T02:12:23 < qyx> for IoT shit too
2019-11-01T02:12:36 < zyp> that's something like what I wanna do
2019-11-01T02:12:47 < zyp> got any pics?
2019-11-01T02:13:22 < catphish> does it matter much what capacitors i put on each side of a l78l regulator?
2019-11-01T02:13:49 < catphish> the datasheet shows 0.33uF on the input and 0.1uF on the output, but doesn't offer any advice
2019-11-01T02:14:14 < qyx> zyp: yes, Ill try to find something now. If not, tomorrow
2019-11-01T02:14:21 < zyp> cool
2019-11-01T02:14:30 < catphish> it also says "No external components are required" just to mess with me
2019-11-01T02:14:32 < kakipro> catphish: I must ask why would you ever want 78?
2019-11-01T02:14:46 < catphish> dunno, it was cheap
2019-11-01T02:14:51 < catphish> and it seems to work
2019-11-01T02:15:07 < kakipro> 78 stands for used last time year
2019-11-01T02:15:15 < catphish> lol
2019-11-01T02:15:31 < zyp> by external components, I assume they mean feedback resistors :p
2019-11-01T02:17:10 < catphish> i'm inclined to put 1uF on each side and not worry any further
2019-11-01T02:17:17 < catphish> but 0.1uF would be even simpler
2019-11-01T02:17:43 < catphish> but then i feel like i have no "bulk" capacitance anywhere
2019-11-01T02:17:50 < catphish> did i mention i have no idea what i'm doing
2019-11-01T02:18:30 < kakipro> it's implied
2019-11-01T02:18:39 < catphish> :)
2019-11-01T02:19:00 < kakipro> pros: cheapest main crystal package?
2019-11-01T02:20:02 < dongs> HC49 obv
2019-11-01T02:20:18 < dongs> but if you want the next most available thing >= 12mhz, 3225
2019-11-01T02:21:54 < catphish> stm32 recommends 10uF to go somewhere, i guess i should keep one of those somewhere on the 3v3 bus
2019-11-01T02:22:14 < kakipro> sure
2019-11-01T02:23:00 < aandrew> I tend to use the 2520 crystals/oscillators
2019-11-01T02:23:29 < aandrew> no, no I'm mistaken
2019-11-01T02:23:31 < aandrew> 3225 is what I use
2019-11-01T02:23:42 < aandrew> Abracon ASE series
2019-11-01T02:25:08 < kakipro> I use fa128
2019-11-01T02:25:16 < kakipro> but this project I do like real project
2019-11-01T02:25:22 < kakipro> so 3225
2019-11-01T02:25:33 < dongs> so not using kikecad?
2019-11-01T02:25:42 < kakipro> kikecading yes
2019-11-01T02:25:51 < kakipro> very much
2019-11-01T02:28:14 < kakipro> you use active oscillator aandrew?
2019-11-01T02:28:19 < kakipro> not just crystal
2019-11-01T02:28:40 < aandrew> kakipro: either/or
2019-11-01T02:28:47 < aandrew> I usually use oscillators though
2019-11-01T02:28:54 < kakipro> ASE series is oscillator
2019-11-01T02:28:57 < aandrew> yes
2019-11-01T02:29:00 < kakipro> why so
2019-11-01T02:29:03 < aandrew> but crystals exist in that package too
2019-11-01T02:29:40 < aandrew> why not?
2019-11-01T02:29:53 < aandrew> I'm using VCTCXOs in this design, same package
2019-11-01T02:30:08 < aandrew> not using the VC part though, although that may come
2019-11-01T02:41:07 < kakipro> why
2019-11-01T02:41:15 < kakipro> you overengineered it?
2019-11-01T02:41:16 < aandrew> needa good stable clock
2019-11-01T02:41:18 < aandrew> no
2019-11-01T02:41:27 < aandrew> this is part of the ptpd project
2019-11-01T02:41:53 < kakipro> sweet
2019-11-01T02:41:57 < kakipro> I have rubidium there
2019-11-01T02:42:01 < kakipro> in a box
2019-11-01T02:42:03 < aandrew> when not using a fucking win10 machine as the master I'm +/-500ns across all devices, and with some engineering I can probably get that down by a factor of ten
2019-11-01T02:42:33 < kakipro> how long distance that is in light speed?
2019-11-01T02:43:12 < kakipro> should add option to run this board from rubidium
2019-11-01T02:43:14 < aandrew> well it's not lightspeed but on FR4 it's about 7ps/mm
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2019-11-01T02:58:06 < aandrew> what the fuck is stmicro doing fucking with the 2x5 debug connector
2019-11-01T02:59:00 < dongs> lmao you mean the shit on stdick v3?
2019-11-01T02:59:07 < aandrew> yeah
2019-11-01T02:59:07 < dongs> is it not the standard pinout?
2019-11-01T02:59:12 < aandrew> stlinkv3mini
2019-11-01T03:00:34 -!- Mangy_Dog [Mangy_Dog@94.2.234.208] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds]
2019-11-01T03:00:50 < kakipro> mini
2019-11-01T03:01:10 < kakipro> I think this my board will have full 20pin debug connector
2019-11-01T03:01:19 < kakipro> I have never used it
2019-11-01T03:01:30 < qyx> so why
2019-11-01T03:01:41 < qyx> so much redundancy
2019-11-01T03:01:43 < kakipro> why not
2019-11-01T03:01:58 < kakipro> good grounds
2019-11-01T03:02:08 < kakipro> IDC is nice
2019-11-01T03:02:26 < kakipro> keyed too
2019-11-01T03:02:44 < kakipro> I mean that slot thing
2019-11-01T03:02:52 < kakipro> orientation thing
2019-11-01T03:03:19 < qyx> all available on standard cortex debug 10pin
2019-11-01T03:03:34 < qyx> idc, 4 grounds, keyed, shrouded
2019-11-01T03:05:30 < kakipro> traceck and traced[0-3]?
2019-11-01T03:05:50 -!- emeryth [emeryth@boston-packets.hackerspace.pl] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds]
2019-11-01T03:06:11 < kakipro> I will leave 10pin too there
2019-11-01T03:06:29 < kakipro> as if it took any space compared to that mammoth
2019-11-01T03:08:15 < kakipro> wait
2019-11-01T03:08:23 < kakipro> 20pin cortex+etm is not IDC
2019-11-01T03:08:29 < kakipro> it's another 1.27 thing
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2019-11-01T03:19:14 < buZz> https://i.imgur.com/yAqQpuq.png <- DFU button i modded onto my goggles ^_^
2019-11-01T03:19:35 < buZz> seems i'm able to dump the old firmware, just dont really dare to upgrade it yet :P
2019-11-01T03:23:10 < kakipro> any benefit using MII instead of RMII?
2019-11-01T03:24:58 < kakipro> A disadvantage to standard RMII is the requirement for an Elasticity Buffer in the receiver.
2019-11-01T03:25:35 -!- Sadale [~Sadale@unaffiliated/sadale] has quit [Ping timeout: 268 seconds]
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2019-11-01T03:33:18 < zyp> MII is 25 MHz, RMII is 50 MHz
2019-11-01T03:33:32 < catphish> wow, jlcpcb assembly is cheap fun, basically all you have to pay for is china priced components
2019-11-01T03:33:38 < zyp> but that doesn't really matter much
2019-11-01T03:33:51 < zyp> catphish, how much do they charge?
2019-11-01T03:34:09 < zyp> like, what prices are you looking at now?
2019-11-01T03:34:30 < dongs> yeah but then you have to deal with idiots in china
2019-11-01T03:34:43 < catphish> zyp: https://i.imgur.com/O914dH2.png
2019-11-01T03:34:54 < catphish> zyp: £22 for 5 boards with no MCU
2019-11-01T03:35:00 < catphish> *50 boards
2019-11-01T03:35:28 < catphish> including those passives and linear reg
2019-11-01T03:35:33 < zyp> wat
2019-11-01T03:35:46 < catphish> thats what i thought
2019-11-01T03:35:55 < kakipro> 24hours
2019-11-01T03:35:57 < catphish> £22. for 50 boards.
2019-11-01T03:36:31 < catphish> that price goes up to £200 for 50 boards when you add a £3.30 L4 to each one, but still
2019-11-01T03:36:34 < zyp> and that's pcb as well, not just assembly?
2019-11-01T03:36:47 < catphish> no, that's just assembly + components
2019-11-01T03:36:52 < zyp> oh, ok
2019-11-01T03:36:56 < zyp> how much are the pcbs?
2019-11-01T03:37:04 < catphish> £8.41
2019-11-01T03:37:09 < catphish> (for the 50)
2019-11-01T03:37:13 < zyp> still not bad
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2019-11-01T03:37:25 < catphish> so £30 all in for boards, passives, linreg, and assembly
2019-11-01T03:37:46 < catphish> plus shipping
2019-11-01T03:38:39 < catphish> oh, sorry, i lie, that price included the PCBs
2019-11-01T03:39:10 < catphish> https://i.imgur.com/j23mipS.png
2019-11-01T03:39:29 < dongs> lol
2019-11-01T03:39:32 < dongs> fucking chinks
2019-11-01T03:39:50 < dongs> thats gotta be hand soldered or something
2019-11-01T03:39:51 < dongs> wehre's stencil
2019-11-01T03:39:58 < catphish> ￡37.29 with UK express shipping or ￡27.31 with slow post
2019-11-01T03:40:11 < catphish> robotic paste, i don't know
2019-11-01T03:40:16 < catphish> it's fucking magic
2019-11-01T03:40:17 < dongs> fuck otuta here
2019-11-01T03:40:41 < catphish> as soon as they have the stm32 in stock i'm getting all over that
2019-11-01T03:40:59 < catphish> it's ridiculous
2019-11-01T03:41:22 < dongs> order it up and let us know how disgusting it looks
2019-11-01T03:41:30 < catphish> i literally will
2019-11-01T03:41:46 < catphish> i think it'll be like late november before they have he l433 in stock
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2019-11-01T03:42:46 < catphish> i bet it looks EXACTLY like this: https://i.imgur.com/TpOQICV.png
2019-11-01T03:43:02 < catphish> except the lazy assholes won't install the TH parts
2019-11-01T03:43:54 < dongs> is that your usb floppy shit
2019-11-01T03:43:57 < catphish> yeh
2019-11-01T03:44:20 < dongs> USB-C or fuck off
2019-11-01T03:44:23 < dongs> its 2019
2019-11-01T03:44:31 < catphish> i do like USB C
2019-11-01T03:44:42 < dongs> lcsc even has like 10c connectors
2019-11-01T03:44:50 < catphish> maybe i'll add it when i do the jlcpcb build
2019-11-01T03:44:58 < catphish> since they can mount them
2019-11-01T03:45:13 < catphish> usb B costs more, and i have to hand solder it
2019-11-01T03:45:24 < catphish> and it's shitter
2019-11-01T03:45:31 < dongs> https://lcsc.com/product-detail/USB-Connectors_XKB-U262-16XN-4BVC11_C319148.html
2019-11-01T03:45:32 < catphish> so idk why i made it like that
2019-11-01T03:46:10 < catphish> that's nice, but 50% SMD 50% TH
2019-11-01T03:46:15 < dongs> no
2019-11-01T03:46:22 < dongs> its paste in pad stuff man
2019-11-01T03:46:36 < dongs> ive used that footprint in production boards, tehres no manual soldering
2019-11-01T03:46:43 < dongs> paste over the PTH holes and done
2019-11-01T03:46:44 < catphish> oh nice, ok
2019-11-01T03:48:29 < catphish> anyway, it works, so i just wanna build some now
2019-11-01T03:48:36 < catphish> also i have to design a GUI for it
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2019-11-01T03:59:41 < kakipro> recommend PHY
2019-11-01T04:03:08 < bitmask> does it matter if silk text overlaps? The default clearance setting is ridiculous at 0.254mm
2019-11-01T04:04:16 < kakipro> overlaps - what?
2019-11-01T04:04:29 < kakipro> and no your design will not fail
2019-11-01T04:04:35 < kakipro> because of silkscreen
2019-11-01T04:04:55 < kakipro> also chinadude wont get mad no matter what kind of desing you do
2019-11-01T04:05:47 < bitmask> well I just mean it doesnt change anything if silk overlaps because it will just print that way 
2019-11-01T04:06:18 < bitmask> im not saying im going to have it overlap, just going to get rid of the clearance setting
2019-11-01T04:06:20 < catphish> if it overlaps, it overlaps, i see no reason why you'd need a gap, afaik ultimately it's just one big image
2019-11-01T04:07:02 < catphish> worst case, 2 things that are supposed to be separate bleed together
2019-11-01T04:07:08 < bitmask> right
2019-11-01T04:08:00 < catphish> http://ianrrees.github.io/2018/06/20/pcb-graphics-with-kicad-+-gimp.html
2019-11-01T04:08:10 < catphish> go crazy print whatever you like
2019-11-01T04:09:18 < catphish> "Second - I haven’t confirmed this with measurements, but it appears that the silk screening ink (which I believe is coming from a printer, not an actual silk screen, for these short-run PCBs) spreads a little bit. This means the smaller dots in particular, are physically larger than they appear in the digital file." - that's your only risk
2019-11-01T04:09:20 < bitmask> hows the toaster oven coming?
2019-11-01T04:10:05 < catphish> i'm not gonna bother for now, just use my hot plate and/or hot air, then head to jlcpcb :)
2019-11-01T04:10:31 < bitmask> ahh
2019-11-01T04:10:43 < bitmask> thought you were close to done
2019-11-01T04:10:57 < catphish> nah, not me anyway
2019-11-01T04:11:04 < catphish> i only briefly discussed it
2019-11-01T04:11:22 < catphish> decided not to bother with it
2019-11-01T04:11:44 < catphish> i'll wait til i'm super rich and just buy a warehouse and put a proper pcb oven in it
2019-11-01T04:15:22 < kakipro> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=enSmON-pcpA
2019-11-01T04:15:27 < kakipro> musics
2019-11-01T04:15:43 < kakipro> it's late in ukland catphish
2019-11-01T04:15:51 < kakipro> are you still in EU?
2019-11-01T04:16:03 < catphish> yep, 11pm came and nothing happened
2019-11-01T04:17:10 < kakipro> then we need RTC crystal
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2019-11-01T07:33:40 < bitmask> what font do you guys use for silk?
2019-11-01T07:38:47 < qyx> the default ome, always vector
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2019-11-01T09:37:52 < dongs> vector one becomes gcode commands
2019-11-01T09:38:00 < dongs> if you use some ttf shit, it becomes rasterized
2019-11-01T09:38:06 < dongs> and with china silk looks absolutely disgusting
2019-11-01T09:38:11 < dongs> i mean their vector looks realbad so 
2019-11-01T09:38:17 < dongs> imagine something even worse than that
2019-11-01T09:39:19 < Cracki> if something can't produce gcode from ttf, it's got shit font handling
2019-11-01T09:40:33 < Cracki> same problem as pdfs and svg files have... you can convert text to vector paths before sending the file out
2019-11-01T09:41:12 < Cracki> if you don't, whatever loads the file may do whatever its own font rendering does
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2019-11-01T15:50:06 < Laurenceb_> what does "cannot send to nick/channel" mean?
2019-11-01T15:51:12 < Ultrasauce> +blaxxed
2019-11-01T15:51:27 < Laurenceb_> ah I need to complete registration
2019-11-01T16:11:29 < englishman> ty, it will make you much easier to ban with the channel +R
2019-11-01T16:13:16 < Laurenceb_> epic trawl
2019-11-01T16:25:16 < karlp> fuckin miso pin at 1V all of a sudden.
2019-11-01T16:25:38 < karlp> no smoke, no clumsy probing, just... no longer get MISO data.
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2019-11-01T16:42:41 < qyx> what would you use to control 12V solenoids?
2019-11-01T16:42:47 < qyx> some fancy relay drivers?
2019-11-01T16:42:55 < qyx> dumb mosfets with diodes?
2019-11-01T16:43:03 < qyx> stepper motor drivers?
2019-11-01T16:47:13 < Laurenceb_> mosfets+ diodes
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2019-11-01T16:53:49 < karlp> how fast you switching them? just a little ssr?
2019-11-01T16:56:35 < qyx> I need to control ~32 of them from a single board, maybe once per 1h, for say 10sec
2019-11-01T16:56:57 < qyx> now I am searching ti.com for daisy-chainable 8 channel low side drivers
2019-11-01T16:58:28 < dongs> qyx, ULN2003 type shit?
2019-11-01T16:58:38 < qyx> DRV8860 looks good
2019-11-01T16:58:40 < qyx> yeah
2019-11-01T16:58:58 < qyx> except if it is possible to avoid 8 inputs, I would do it
2019-11-01T16:59:31 < dongs> what about abusing constant current LED driver
2019-11-01T16:59:34 < karlp> gah, unrelated software fuckup trampled my spi divider, so was talking too fast, so rmeot edevice just not responding.
2019-11-01T16:59:46  * karlp wasted time probing the board again and fucking around.
2019-11-01T16:59:59 < dongs> 8ch or 12ch
2019-11-01T17:00:30 < qyx> time wasted, knowledge gathered
2019-11-01T17:00:43 < qyx> dongs: for 0.5A?
2019-11-01T17:00:57 < qyx> also, not for inductive loads
2019-11-01T17:01:01 < dongs> to hold relay? well you can stick a MMBTwhatever for that
2019-11-01T17:01:59 < dongs> 16ch x 2 gets you 32 of them
2019-11-01T17:02:39 < dongs> TLC59282 (or chink clones of such, there's many
2019-11-01T17:02:59 < dongs> on lcsc for half price of DRV
2019-11-01T17:03:22 < dongs> and thousands in stock
2019-11-01T17:05:42 < dongs> k bedtime
2019-11-01T17:07:17 < dongs> qyx, TLC -> MMBT3906 -> relay high side.
2019-11-01T17:07:55 < dongs> * 32
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2019-11-01T17:13:00 < buZz> so, i have a STM32F411CE with DFU button now
2019-11-01T17:13:08 < buZz> does that mean i'm 'brick-free' if i flash poorly?
2019-11-01T17:13:39 < buZz> i mean, could i always flash back whats on there now? seeing as i can read the data
2019-11-01T17:15:02 < buZz> some pages seem to claim the 'DFU bootloader' on any STMF4* is in rom, so should be, right?
2019-11-01T17:20:18 < Mangy_Dog> dfu isnt a sure fire way to unbrick anything
2019-11-01T17:20:22 < Mangy_Dog> you can still corrupt the boot loader
2019-11-01T17:20:33 < Mangy_Dog> you want a stlink for a more sure fire way to not brick
2019-11-01T17:21:37 < qyx> wat
2019-11-01T17:21:46 < qyx> the system bootloader cannot be overwritten
2019-11-01T17:22:28 < qyx> as buZz says, if you have some means of toggling boot pins, you can always return to the system bootloader mode
2019-11-01T17:22:44 < qyx> and program the flash by whatever means it supports, DFU being one of them
2019-11-01T17:22:46 < buZz> ah, thanks qyx 
2019-11-01T17:22:47 < buZz> :)
2019-11-01T17:23:21 < buZz> that sounds a bit more hopefull to mess around with replacing this fw with random stuff i write myself
2019-11-01T17:23:53 < buZz> https://nurdspace.nl/File:LGR100-modded-with-DFU-button.png <-- found a article describing which testpin on the board was the 'boot0' pin
2019-11-01T17:24:04 < buZz> and totally works to access the original fw
2019-11-01T17:25:38 < bitmask> buZz made his way into stm32?
2019-11-01T17:25:52 < buZz> barely ;)
2019-11-01T17:26:01 < buZz> just scraping surface really
2019-11-01T17:26:07 < buZz> also hi
2019-11-01T17:26:34 < bitmask> hey, not sure if you remember me, I talk in arduino and think you are in reprap too?
2019-11-01T17:27:08 < buZz> yes ;) i'm even a operator in #reprap
2019-11-01T17:28:05 < buZz> mainly here to just figure out this DFU stuff
2019-11-01T17:28:10 < buZz> its not superclear to me
2019-11-01T17:29:09 < bitmask> would help if I could
2019-11-01T17:29:26 < buZz> np man , it'll work out ;)
2019-11-01T17:29:51 < buZz> a friend of mine started the OpenHMD project, and this cheap VR goggles was suddenly supported, so i bought one
2019-11-01T17:29:56 < bitmask> question about paste layer, do you cut up large pads like for inductors and 1206 components?
2019-11-01T17:30:13 < buZz> bitmask: thats a question for #kicad i bet? :P
2019-11-01T17:30:45 < bitmask> people here are usually helpful when they aren't sleeping... well sometimes :P
2019-11-01T17:31:16 < PaulFertser> Mangy_Dog: ROM DFU bootloader is a sure way unless you use some option bytes to block all and every access to the programming facilities.
2019-11-01T17:31:36 < PaulFertser> F4 has some "permlock" mode iirc.
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2019-11-01T17:31:41 < buZz> i did see a 'option bytes' partition in DFU aswell
2019-11-01T17:31:49 < buZz> also a 'device feature' and 'OTP memory' one
2019-11-01T17:31:59 < buZz> they're really small, compared to the 512kb flash
2019-11-01T17:32:07 < buZz> are they like avr/atmel's 'fuses' ?
2019-11-01T17:32:25 < PaulFertser> OTP memory is real OTP. Option bytes are kinda similar to AVR "fuses", yes.
2019-11-01T17:32:48 < buZz> hmh, so what would the OTP be used for typically? serial nr?
2019-11-01T17:33:07 < PaulFertser> Yes, probably MAC, stuff like that.
2019-11-01T17:33:15 < buZz> hmhm
2019-11-01T17:33:23 < PaulFertser> Crypto key might be
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2019-11-01T19:09:05 < Laurenceb_> absolute state of "free" software
2019-11-01T19:09:24 < Laurenceb_> freecad breaks on windozer, who could have predicted this
2019-11-01T19:12:42 < englishman> https://imgur.com/mvYdEXq
2019-11-01T19:12:45 < englishman>  https://imgur.com/CFEfXNP
2019-11-01T19:12:54 < englishman> check out what some dude sent me
2019-11-01T19:13:38 < specing> Laurenceb_: its designed to be used on free software
2019-11-01T19:13:45 < specing> Laurenceb_: run it on GNU+Linux
2019-11-01T19:13:49 < karlp> englishman: gnarly.  what's driving it?
2019-11-01T19:13:57 < karlp> all the same image on them for comparison or what?
2019-11-01T19:14:08 < englishman> bunch of 8051
2019-11-01T19:16:25 < englishman> and yeah you can cycle through several demo images
2019-11-01T19:29:02 < Mangy_Dog> i want some of those automotive displays
2019-11-01T19:29:15 < Mangy_Dog> future project for a rebuild car dash
2019-11-01T19:32:11 < karlp> well, here's my friday afternoon: https://imgur.com/a/gEyhXve
2019-11-01T19:40:23 < aandrew> karlp: nice. what's a zx?
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2019-11-01T19:45:39 < Laurenceb_> today in opensores
2019-11-01T19:45:54 < Laurenceb_> why is freecad taking 30 minutes and allocating 2GB to render a cylinder
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2019-11-01T19:48:02 < karlp> aandrew: zero crossing timing
2019-11-01T19:48:52 < karlp> it's totally within spec, atmel say typically 0.2ms and max 0.5ms.  analog devices doesn't even spec, just "typically lags 1.1ms" with no statement on jitter
2019-11-01T19:49:30 < specing> Laurenceb_: today in opensores
2019-11-01T19:49:39 < specing> why didn't you buy a REAL CAD program?
2019-11-01T19:51:00 < aandrew> zx zero cross, got it. :-)
2019-11-01T19:55:19 < bitmask> almost done :P https://imgur.com/a/z8aWJQj
2019-11-01T19:55:29 < Laurenceb_> looks like freecad windozer is ususable
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2019-11-01T19:56:48 < Laurenceb_> even the most simple primative takes about an hour of cpu time
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2019-11-01T21:26:17 < Laurenceb_> hmm looks like freecad memory management is broken on windoze
2019-11-01T21:26:29 < Laurenceb_> it leaks forever
2019-11-01T21:27:42 < jpa-> that's what swap is for
2019-11-01T21:28:43 < Laurenceb_> heh
2019-11-01T21:28:52 < Laurenceb_> time to give up I think
2019-11-01T21:28:58 < Laurenceb_> looks like its unusable
2019-11-01T21:30:05 < Laurenceb_> who could have predicted this
2019-11-01T21:30:13 < Laurenceb_>  "free" software
2019-11-01T21:32:45 < mawk> nonsense
2019-11-01T21:32:49 < mawk> the issue here is windows
2019-11-01T21:32:52 < mawk> not freecad
2019-11-01T21:33:01 < mawk> or maybe even more likely, the issue is Laurenceb_ 
2019-11-01T21:33:14 < mawk> you tick the "[×] enable memory leaks" box in settings
2019-11-01T21:36:39 < BrainDamage> I thought you had a linux installation, why not use it there?
2019-11-01T21:40:31 < Laurenceb_> windoze has more ram
2019-11-01T21:40:40 < Laurenceb_> aha looks like the issue is freecad
2019-11-01T21:40:48 < Laurenceb_> more specifically, python stuff
2019-11-01T21:49:21 < Steffanx> the issue is freecad.
2019-11-01T21:49:27 < Steffanx> end of discussion, mawk
2019-11-01T21:50:33 < Steffanx> You can always use fusion 360 instead Laurenceb_.
2019-11-01T21:51:52 < Laurenceb_> for some reason huge memory allocations arent being handled correctly
2019-11-01T21:52:41 < Laurenceb_> I can get the same stuff to work by bypassing freecad with command line
2019-11-01T21:53:19 < Laurenceb_> the pattern of memory allocations looks similar but freecad goes wrong at some point when memory allocation fails
2019-11-01T21:53:37 < Laurenceb_> looks like they dont know how to do memory under windoze properly
2019-11-01T21:53:47 < Laurenceb_> s/do/use
2019-11-01T21:55:29 < Laurenceb_> opesores crew only know how to lunix, who knew
2019-11-01T21:56:14 < Laurenceb_> windozer command line is so clunky :(
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2019-11-01T22:41:54 < Laurenceb_> >The SGI solver is the fastest, but is is proprietary: if you own SGI hardware you might have gotten the scientific software packag
2019-11-01T22:43:27 < Laurenceb_> wtf
2019-11-01T22:43:44 < Laurenceb_> Silicon Graphics?
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2019-11-01T23:10:15 < jadew> what's a good mouse I can fix over and over again?
2019-11-01T23:10:42 < Steffanx> Get a mouse that doesnt break?
2019-11-01T23:10:54 < jadew> has to be wireless and the wheel encoder has to be the dumb kind (diode + detector on the other side)
2019-11-01T23:11:02 < jadew> Steffanx, they all break
2019-11-01T23:11:17 < jadew> contacts go first, then the encoder
2019-11-01T23:11:19 < Steffanx> but then i dont mind to buy a new one every 5 years
2019-11-01T23:11:46 < jadew> I don't like changing my mouse or my keyboard
2019-11-01T23:11:55 < Steffanx> buy 5 of the same
2019-11-01T23:11:57 < Steffanx> > 25 years
2019-11-01T23:11:57 < Ultrasauce> im using a mouse i bought in 2013 for 800 krw
2019-11-01T23:12:08 < jadew> Steffanx, hah, that's not a bad idea, but I'd have to find a good one first
2019-11-01T23:12:36  * qyx ~ logitech m185
2019-11-01T23:13:00 < qyx> wireless, analol wheel, single AA for ~1year
2019-11-01T23:13:04 < Steffanx> lolwut, mr Ultrasauce?
2019-11-01T23:13:08 < Ultrasauce> sorry 8000
2019-11-01T23:13:11 < jadew> qyx, that sounds good
2019-11-01T23:13:20 < Steffanx> still, lolwut mr Ultrasauce?
2019-11-01T23:13:25 < jadew> qyx, no back/forward buttons tho
2019-11-01T23:13:37 < qyx> no.. and my wheel microswitch broke recently
2019-11-01T23:13:44 < qyx> so I have to replace it
2019-11-01T23:14:04 < jadew> qyx, you can get new microswitches for pennies from china
2019-11-01T23:14:12 < qyx> yeah
2019-11-01T23:14:19 < jadew> I got a bag for my current one, changed them a couple of times, but this time the encoder gave in
2019-11-01T23:14:27 < jadew> and it's an enclosed thingie
2019-11-01T23:14:40 < jadew> won't bother repairing that
2019-11-01T23:14:56 < jadew> a dumber encoder (like they used to make them 10 years ago) would have been better
2019-11-01T23:15:03 < jadew> you just blew on it and it started working again
2019-11-01T23:15:19 < Steffanx> is repairing it worth your time?
2019-11-01T23:15:28 < jadew> Steffanx, it takes 5 minutes tops
2019-11-01T23:15:32 < Steffanx> lies.
2019-11-01T23:15:46 < Steffanx> every newer mouse takes long to take apart.
2019-11-01T23:15:56 < Steffanx> then get the switch out
2019-11-01T23:15:59 < Steffanx> and put a new one in.
2019-11-01T23:16:12 < jadew> heh, this one has 4 screws and it comes apart really easily
2019-11-01T23:16:16 < Steffanx> btw. now we are at "worth your time". Hows this data/temperature logger going? :P
2019-11-01T23:16:22 < jadew> haha
2019-11-01T23:16:29  * karlp laughs
2019-11-01T23:16:44 < qyx> data/temp logger?
2019-11-01T23:16:45 < jadew> I bought a controleo, indeed it wasn't worth my time
2019-11-01T23:16:46 < Steffanx> today i looked at the newest UI of the picologger again, it was pretty fancy.
2019-11-01T23:17:19 < Steffanx> Yeah, jadew claimed to could do a picologger + the UI in no time, qyx
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2019-11-01T23:17:42 < jadew> well, I still claim that, but I realized I value my time too much
2019-11-01T23:17:46 < Steffanx> Every now and then i have to  check if jadew is done yet :D
2019-11-01T23:17:52 < jadew> and I don't feel any excitement for that project
2019-11-01T23:18:31 < jadew> I fixed a TV today - enjoyed doing that
2019-11-01T23:18:44 < Steffanx> flat hand -> back?
2019-11-01T23:18:49 < Steffanx> *back of tv
2019-11-01T23:18:56 < jadew> haha
2019-11-01T23:19:08 < jadew> finally got my hands on a programmed NAND
2019-11-01T23:19:19 < jadew> apparently in these new TVs that's a common issue
2019-11-01T23:19:31 < jadew> sectors go bad and they stop working
2019-11-01T23:19:50 < jadew> so I guess new TV repair guys have much simpler jobs than they did in the past
2019-11-01T23:20:11 < Steffanx> They dont have a job.
2019-11-01T23:20:19 < Steffanx> since people buy a new TV and trash the old one.
2019-11-01T23:20:22 < jadew> it's caps, cfl tubes or the NAND
2019-11-01T23:20:55 < jadew> Steffanx, yeah, a lot less people are repairing their TVs these days, but there's still business for them
2019-11-01T23:21:02 < BrainDamage> tv repair is long dead here
2019-11-01T23:21:13 < jadew> especially if the TVs are expensive
2019-11-01T23:21:16 < BrainDamage> died even before crt started to disappear
2019-11-01T23:21:25 < qyx> Steffanx: such brave
2019-11-01T23:21:50 < jadew> I have a TV repair shop near me
2019-11-01T23:22:11 < jadew> he seems to be working constantly, so I guess it's still a thing in here
2019-11-01T23:22:54  * karlp loves just firing up a 20gig download.
2019-11-01T23:23:05 < karlp> 8 minutes left.  bah
2019-11-01T23:23:38 < BrainDamage> jadew: but does the business allow to more than one shop to exist?
2019-11-01T23:23:58 < jadew> BrainDamage, don't know
2019-11-01T23:24:04 < BrainDamage> it's like a piano tuner, back in 1800 a city could have several
2019-11-01T23:24:19 < BrainDamage> nowdays one is enough to satisfy all the clients
2019-11-01T23:24:40 < jadew> thing is, LCD technology has matured enough that if you buy a TV today, 5 years from now it's probably not going to be obsolete
2019-11-01T23:24:58 < jadew> so if it breaks, it might actually make sense to repair it
2019-11-01T23:25:08 < karlp> BrainDamage: I only hear of pianotuners being flown in here.
2019-11-01T23:25:11 < jadew> the TV I repaird is probably 10 years old, and it's still going strong
2019-11-01T23:25:16 < jadew> smart TV with full HD
2019-11-01T23:25:21 < jadew> good enough for the bedroom
2019-11-01T23:25:22 < karlp> and then there's a bit of word of mouth that one's coming and they do a few pianos on the tour
2019-11-01T23:28:41 < qyx> 20gig in 8 minutes
2019-11-01T23:28:49 < qyx> yesterday I was downloading 20megs in 15 minutes
2019-11-01T23:30:36 < jadew> porn excerpts
2019-11-01T23:32:01 < karlp> well, it's slowed down at the end. only 2gig left and it's going much more slowly.
2019-11-01T23:32:28 < jadew> is it a torrent?
2019-11-01T23:34:00 < karlp> nah, ps4 game.
2019-11-01T23:34:55 < jadew> all the brand name mouses seem to have outrageous prices
2019-11-01T23:35:09 < jadew> and that's even before you get to more than two buttons
2019-11-01T23:35:48 < jadew> maybe I can find the PN of the encoder in mine
2019-11-01T23:36:09 < jadew> then I could use this one till the the plastic breaks
2019-11-01T23:37:49 < Steffanx> What is outrageous?
2019-11-01T23:37:59 < jadew> $30+
2019-11-01T23:38:12 < Steffanx> Hm
2019-11-01T23:38:19 < jadew> for something that probably costs $2 to produce these days
2019-11-01T23:38:35 < jadew> and the ones with extra buttons costs like $70
2019-11-01T23:39:00 < Steffanx> Time to browse aliexpress then
2019-11-01T23:39:09 < jadew> I'm looking at off-brand stuff now
2019-11-01T23:39:12 < jadew> like Hama
2019-11-01T23:39:25 < jadew> it's all the same quality anyway
2019-11-01T23:39:26 < Steffanx> € 2,57 | 2.4GHz Draadloze Muizen Met Usb-ontvanger Gamer 2000DPI Muis Voor Computer PC Laptop
2019-11-01T23:39:26 < Steffanx> https://s.click.aliexpress.com/e/UWCrt3iIX
2019-11-01T23:39:32 < Steffanx> Meh. 
2019-11-01T23:39:36 < Laurenceb_>  "ps4 game"
2019-11-01T23:39:45 < Steffanx> Why it had to add that
2019-11-01T23:40:19 < jadew> the only reason I try to avoid no-name mouses is because they're painted
2019-11-01T23:40:32 < Steffanx> So many for under 10 euro bucks on the aliexpress
2019-11-01T23:40:38 < jadew> and all of that paint will rub off and I don't know what it's made of
2019-11-01T23:40:59 < jadew> otherwise I'm sure they're decent mouses
2019-11-01T23:42:04 < jadew> would be nice if they included a tear-down too
2019-11-01T23:48:31 < zyp> do you replace your mouse so often that price really matters?
2019-11-01T23:49:33 < jadew> zyp, I don't like to pay more for something for the wrong reasons
2019-11-01T23:52:12 < zyp> I'm not arguing that either
2019-11-01T23:53:30 < zyp> putting a bit extra money into it to get something decent and lasting however can be worthwhile
2019-11-01T23:54:04 < jadew> well, that's the thing, in the past I only used microsoft mice and they all failed in the same way cheap chinese ones are failing
2019-11-01T23:54:10 < jadew> there's literally no difference
2019-11-01T23:54:13 < zyp> as far as I remember, I bought my current mouse when I graduated middle school, so it's 15 years now, still going strong
2019-11-01T23:54:25 < jadew> really? which mouse is that?
2019-11-01T23:54:35 < zyp> logitech mx510
2019-11-01T23:54:51 < jadew> I've had maybe 10, in the past 15 years
2019-11-01T23:55:04 < jadew> and that includes some very expensive ones
2019-11-01T23:55:40 < Steffanx> Stop throwing it around
2019-11-01T23:55:50 < zyp> I've had this one and another two,
2019-11-01T23:55:52 < jadew> looks like the internet agrees with you
2019-11-01T23:55:59 < zyp> the latter ones being wireless apple mice
2019-11-01T23:56:11 < zyp> switched back because I got tired of dealing with batteries
2019-11-01T23:56:25 < jadew> if this one was wireless I'd buy it
2019-11-01T23:56:37 < zyp> so technically I haven't put 15 years of use on it
2019-11-01T23:56:48 < zyp> but probably >10
2019-11-01T23:56:51 < jadew> I don't mind the battery life on my current mouse ($15 cheappie)
2019-11-01T23:57:00 < jadew> that's still extremely good
2019-11-01T23:57:13 < jadew> I think the most I've had a mouse was 4 years
2019-11-01T23:57:59 < jadew> arm processor - LOL
2019-11-01T23:58:10 < jadew> how smart is that mouse?
2019-11-01T23:58:35 < zyp> I picked up a logitech m500 for work when I started at my current company, it also seems decent enough and IIRC it was cheap
2019-11-01T23:58:42 < jadew> it seems people loved it so much, logitech started producing it again
2019-11-01T23:58:57 < zyp> so I'd probably buy another one of those if I needed a new mouse today
2019-11-01T23:59:04 < jadew> thanks
2019-11-01T23:59:09 < jadew> I'll check it out
--- Day changed Sat Nov 02 2019
2019-11-02T00:00:53 < bitmask> how much power can a thermistor handle without self heating
2019-11-02T00:01:08 < zyp> 0W
2019-11-02T00:01:33 < jadew> :)
2019-11-02T00:01:37 < bitmask> ok, some self heating :P
2019-11-02T00:01:45 < zyp> any dissipation would self heat, question is just how much is acceptable to you
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2019-11-02T00:02:57 < bitmask> I just realized my whole system wasn't gonna work thanks to someone in another channel.  really fudged that up.  so I can either switch to P channel mosfets which really complicates things or just use 12V with the thermistor instead of 5
2019-11-02T00:03:39 < zyp> wat
2019-11-02T00:03:53 < bitmask> nothing, ignore tha
2019-11-02T00:03:55 < bitmask> t
2019-11-02T00:04:02 < bitmask> I just have to raise the voltage 
2019-11-02T00:04:02 < zyp> do you share ground leads between thermistors and heaters?
2019-11-02T00:04:13 < bitmask> I was
2019-11-02T00:04:27 < zyp> good luck
2019-11-02T00:04:46 < bitmask> it doesnt have to be very accurate
2019-11-02T00:04:52 < bitmask> and I said was
2019-11-02T00:09:20 < qyx> 0W, zypdantic
2019-11-02T00:18:07 < jadew> found rotary encoders :D
2019-11-02T00:18:13 < jadew> $1 for 10, delivered
2019-11-02T00:28:13 < zyp> qyx, try giving a better number without a figure on acceptable self heating and actual Rth
2019-11-02T00:29:26 < Cracki> jadew, those hexadecimal faced thingies you operate with a screw drivers, or those used to measure angle?
2019-11-02T00:30:27 < jadew> https://www.aliexpress.com/item/4000224083902.html
2019-11-02T00:31:00 < Cracki> ah yes
2019-11-02T00:31:03 < jadew> I'll buy another mouse too and if I don't like it, when the encoders arrive, I'll switch back
2019-11-02T00:32:18 < catphish> morning
2019-11-02T00:32:27 < jadew> it's either this: https://www.emag.ro/mouse-wireless-hama-am-7800-negru-134920/pd/D0NWZYBBM/ or this: https://www.emag.ro/mouse-wireless-hama-mw-400-negru-182626/pd/DLKZP1BBM/
2019-11-02T00:32:51 < jadew> the logitech one I found and I liked the way it looked, had quite a few negative reviews that indicated it would be the same as these two
2019-11-02T00:33:15 < jadew> (on top of having a shitty optical sensor and not working on wood surfaces)
2019-11-02T00:33:25 < zyp> which one?
2019-11-02T00:33:31 < jadew> zyp, the M510
2019-11-02T00:33:42 < jadew> lots of complaints about the wood thing
2019-11-02T00:39:12 < jadew> hmm, lots of bad reviews for the ones I found too
2019-11-02T00:39:32 < jadew> mainly regarding stand-by mode
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2019-11-02T00:45:39 < irc678> Is there a full index of stm32 docs? 
2019-11-02T00:46:12 < specing> irc678: site:st.com filetype:pdf ?
2019-11-02T00:46:45 < irc678> :)
2019-11-02T00:55:02 < Laurenceb_> keeek https://science.slashdot.org/story/19/11/01/2115245/13-year-old-scientist-designs-alternative-to-hyperloop
2019-11-02T00:55:26 < Laurenceb_> of all the sane responses to hyperloop we get this
2019-11-02T00:55:42 < specing> "13 year old scientist" errrrmmm
2019-11-02T00:56:19 < scrts2> did anyone interface WiFi module to stm32 over SDIO?
2019-11-02T00:56:27 < Laurenceb_> she sexually identifies as a scientist
2019-11-02T00:56:29 < Laurenceb_> wait..
2019-11-02T00:56:36  * Laurenceb_ takes a seat over there
2019-11-02T00:57:22 < Laurenceb_> the more I read that "invention" the less sense it makes
2019-11-02T00:57:36 < specing> Lol
2019-11-02T00:58:01 < specing> " is to build pneumatic tubes next to existing train tracks. Magnetic shuttles would travel through these vacuum tubes, connected via magnetic arm to trains traveling on the existing tracks. This system would utilize current train tracks, thereby cutting infrastructure costs and, "
2019-11-02T00:58:03 < specing> wat.jpg
2019-11-02T00:58:24 < specing> she's so young she hasn't yet heard of electric trains
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2019-11-02T01:05:11 < Cracki> dunking on thuna gretelberg?
2019-11-02T01:05:46 < Cracki> ah, yet another child prodigy with a ticking mess of wires in a suitcase
2019-11-02T01:06:16 < Laurenceb_> lol
2019-11-02T01:06:31 < Cracki> >magnetic shuttles
2019-11-02T01:07:15 < Cracki> yeah wtf use train tracks but fuck electricity, we'll use magnets?
2019-11-02T01:07:37 < Cracki> kids need to be reminded again that they're fucking dumb
2019-11-02T01:08:16 < Laurenceb_> magnets: how do they work?
2019-11-02T01:08:25 < Cracki> all the dumb fucking adults hyping this need their voting rights revoked, and prevented from engaging in economy
2019-11-02T01:09:31 < Cracki> linear motor without maglev. muricans are taught nothing.
2019-11-02T01:10:16 < Cracki> "common core", just the latest iteration of retardation. name says "core", i.e. you should put stuff around it... but everyone thinks "core" is enough.
2019-11-02T01:10:33 < specing> vacuum tube is totaly the only viable means of fast long range transport
2019-11-02T01:10:45 < BrainDamage> I think she wants to run a parallel track where an electric train would ride in vacuum, and then pull a reg train through mag coupling
2019-11-02T01:10:58 < specing> airplanes are too slow (since concorde was retired) and pollute too much
2019-11-02T01:11:00 < Cracki> I thought you were gonna say vacuum tube is the only viable means of blockchain
2019-11-02T01:11:02 < BrainDamage> except that doesn't cancel the drag in the normal train tunnel
2019-11-02T01:11:17 < BrainDamage> therefore only adding complexity and no gain
2019-11-02T01:11:23 < specing> BrainDamage: shes 13, "what is drag?"
2019-11-02T01:11:30 < Cracki> ye that only adds waste
2019-11-02T01:11:49 < Cracki> drag is the demon reading stories to her class at library
2019-11-02T01:12:34 < Cracki> 3M made the mistake of being shown with her brainfart
2019-11-02T01:12:34 < BrainDamage> you can also reduce drag by having better cross-section ratios
2019-11-02T01:13:02 < BrainDamage> there's nothing that mandates that a train has to fit 4 rows of seat + passageway
2019-11-02T01:13:13 < BrainDamage> you could have a single row of seats, accessed externally
2019-11-02T01:13:25 < BrainDamage> however, that might feel a bit claustrophobic for some
2019-11-02T01:13:34 < Cracki> her science teachers should be fired and sent to education camps
2019-11-02T01:17:36 < Cracki> she basically discovered how all the non-rail stuff on a scale model railway are moved.
2019-11-02T01:17:47 < Cracki> magnets are put under the plywood and drag whatever's topside.
2019-11-02T01:26:09 < Laurenceb_> hyperloop should be +-4kv DC tracks inside a concrete sewer pipe, with electric vehicles and interconnects between the two pipes every ~100m to vent the air around
2019-11-02T01:26:14 < Laurenceb_> there I solved it
2019-11-02T01:27:08 < BrainDamage> so pretty much your average tube?
2019-11-02T01:27:23 < Laurenceb_> a series of tubes
2019-11-02T01:27:43 < Laurenceb_> everything in the hyperloop white paper is a non issue
2019-11-02T01:28:22 < BrainDamage> tube/underground/subway, whatever you call it
2019-11-02T01:28:46 < BrainDamage> it's pretty much that already
2019-11-02T01:29:09 < BrainDamage> including the air exchange to the neighbour tunnel
2019-11-02T01:29:29 < Laurenceb_> yeah, channel tunnel does this
2019-11-02T01:30:16 < Laurenceb_> only issue is as pressure reduces you get plasma discharge
2019-11-02T01:30:31 < BrainDamage> that sounds pretty cool
2019-11-02T01:30:35 < Laurenceb_> but it looks like there is a sweet spot around <1kPa
2019-11-02T01:30:39 < BrainDamage> train leaving trails of sparks
2019-11-02T01:30:44 < Laurenceb_> lol
2019-11-02T01:30:51 < Laurenceb_> the spooky train
2019-11-02T01:31:03 < Laurenceb_> surrounded by plasma glow
2019-11-02T01:31:43 < Cracki> rebrand as ion drive
2019-11-02T01:31:52 < Laurenceb_> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Paschen%27s_law#/media/File:Paschen_curves.svg
2019-11-02T01:31:52 < Cracki> just that they don't do anything
2019-11-02T01:33:13 < Laurenceb_>  +-4kv at a few hundred Pa should work
2019-11-02T01:34:37 < Laurenceb_> or moar crazy, high speed pneumatic tires with metal pads inside the tube, if the tires can be made conductive enough
2019-11-02T01:35:32 < Laurenceb_> elephant in the room is that it needs not only air con but CO2/O2 stuff
2019-11-02T01:37:33 < Laurenceb_> Musk isnt stupid, which is why he hasnt actually done anything hyperloop related
2019-11-02T01:37:49 < Laurenceb_> other than some weird toy for perman00b students
2019-11-02T02:02:42 < Laurenceb_> https://cdn.vox-cdn.com/thumbor/qsFFdO0QerIEu2Zb6GBBtSFIEgw=/0x0:1280x960/1200x800/filters:focal(538x378:742x582)/cdn.vox-cdn.com/uploads/chorus_image/image/56391563/21083288_502782790075144_6758424822313899107_o.0.jpg
2019-11-02T02:02:49 < Laurenceb_> kek its tiny
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2019-11-02T02:51:45 < mawk> omg
2019-11-02T02:51:51 < mawk> airbus is compromising themselves in that
2019-11-02T02:51:56 < mawk> siemens too
2019-11-02T02:56:59 < Laurenceb_> lol
2019-11-02T02:57:05 < Laurenceb_> wtf I hate airbus now
2019-11-02T02:57:32 < Laurenceb_> >460km/h
2019-11-02T02:57:52 < Laurenceb_> uh oh https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/TGV_world_speed_record
2019-11-02T02:58:03 < mawk> of course
2019-11-02T02:58:34 < mawk> it's not british that would do that
2019-11-02T02:58:42 < mawk> not enough space on the tiny island to accelerate to full speed
2019-11-02T02:59:16 < aandrew> I'm hunting down SPI slave issues in this FPGA
2019-11-02T03:00:01 < aandrew> every once in a while it just does not see a transaction
2019-11-02T03:00:11 < aandrew> it may be missing the SS change
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2019-11-02T03:01:13 < specing> Laurenceb_: The current world speed record for a commercial train on steel wheels is held by the French TGV at 574.8 km/h (357.2 mph), 
2019-11-02T03:01:20 < Laurenceb_> ikr
2019-11-02T03:01:22 < specing> thats pretty fast yo
2019-11-02T03:01:39 < Laurenceb_> hyperloop utterly btfo'd
2019-11-02T03:02:08 < mawk> lol yeah
2019-11-02T03:02:34 < specing> I thought the nose cone would be longer with these trains
2019-11-02T03:03:37 < BrainDamage> it's not a speed they can sustain
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2019-11-02T03:04:14 < BrainDamage> but reg high speed train sustain 370km/h no problem here
2019-11-02T03:04:28 < BrainDamage> it's weird seeing highway traffing flying by
2019-11-02T03:04:59 < mawk> what do you mean they can't sustain ?
2019-11-02T03:05:07 < mawk> they were above 500km/h for a long time*
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2019-11-02T03:07:03 < BrainDamage> it's not an average speed on the track
2019-11-02T03:07:22 < BrainDamage> they can exceed 500km/h only for short sections and with no cars attached
2019-11-02T03:07:49 < BrainDamage> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Land_speed_record_for_rail_vehicles#All_Trains_Commercially_Operated
2019-11-02T03:08:22 < BrainDamage> those are instead the speeds you'll expect on the lines
2019-11-02T03:09:41 < BrainDamage> so the peak speed records are kind of artifical conditions
2019-11-02T03:16:17 < mawk> they sustained the 500km/h for 26km on average
2019-11-02T03:16:20 < mawk> with 3 trailer cars
2019-11-02T03:16:33 < mawk> with high ranking officials in it
2019-11-02T03:16:44 < mawk> but during another test run the train crashed and engineers died
2019-11-02T03:16:56 < mawk> not during the 2007 record but not so long aso
2019-11-02T03:18:58 < Laurenceb_> nobody has managed to get pantographs to work well past 350kmh or so
2019-11-02T03:19:23 < mawk> electrized tracks !
2019-11-02T03:19:28 < mawk> and electrocuted copper-stealing roms
2019-11-02T03:20:16 < Laurenceb_> yeah lol
2019-11-02T03:20:33 < Laurenceb_> also steering is a pain with high speed conventional rail
2019-11-02T03:20:42 < mawk> no need to steer
2019-11-02T03:20:47 < Laurenceb_> the turning radius increases with speed
2019-11-02T03:20:47 < mawk> just expropriate land owners and make straight tracks
2019-11-02T03:20:50 < mawk> that's what they do here
2019-11-02T03:20:51 < mawk> yeah
2019-11-02T03:20:55 < BrainDamage> that's what they did here
2019-11-02T03:21:10 < Laurenceb_> but aiui bombardier has made active steering work
2019-11-02T03:21:17 < Laurenceb_> so that can solve the problem
2019-11-02T03:21:32 < mawk> like turn the carriage wheels themselves ?
2019-11-02T03:21:56 < Laurenceb_> actuators to control the steering
2019-11-02T03:22:06 < mawk> that's active 
2019-11-02T03:22:08 < BrainDamage> they could also start having non-welded axles
2019-11-02T03:22:15 < Laurenceb_> based off inductive sensors to measure rail position
2019-11-02T03:22:17 < mawk> ?
2019-11-02T03:22:41 < Laurenceb_> mawk: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hunting_oscillation
2019-11-02T03:23:00 < mawk> ah
2019-11-02T03:23:01 < mawk> what do you mean
2019-11-02T03:23:08 < mawk> why did this took years to solve Laurenceb_ ?
2019-11-02T03:23:12 < mawk> a
2019-11-02T03:23:16 < Laurenceb_> ikr
2019-11-02T03:23:29 < Laurenceb_> guess no control electronics in victorian period
2019-11-02T03:23:59 < Laurenceb_> somewhat simpler than hyperloop
2019-11-02T03:25:01 < mawk> lol
2019-11-02T03:25:04 < mawk> still faster
2019-11-02T03:26:57 < Laurenceb_> https://rail.bombardier.com/en/solutions-and-technologies/equipment/urban-equipment.html
2019-11-02T03:27:10 < Laurenceb_> >FLEXX Tronic technology with ARS – active radial steering
2019-11-02T03:27:23 < mawk> FLEXX lol
2019-11-02T03:27:40 < mawk> http://www.railway-research.org/IMG/pdf/186-2.pdf
2019-11-02T03:27:42 < mawk> here
2019-11-02T03:29:44 < Laurenceb_> ah nice find
2019-11-02T03:30:33 < Laurenceb_> looks like fairly standard steering arms on figure 1
2019-11-02T03:31:03 < mawk> While sound in theory, the design has produced mixed results in practice. Increased flange wear and decreased ride quality have been observed and some feel radial steering trucks are the answer to a question that wasn't asked. Many locomotives have had the active steering disabled through removal of the main steering link.
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2019-11-02T03:56:35 < Laurenceb_> still more sane than hyperloop
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2019-11-02T07:24:06 < rue_mohr> hey, if I start a regular batch of channels on the ADC, do I get an EOC flag for each finished channel?
2019-11-02T07:24:32 < rue_mohr> the docs aren't being clear to me on that
2019-11-02T07:27:35 < rue_mohr> adc_enable_scan_mode(                 ADC1);
2019-11-02T07:27:43 < rue_mohr> adc_set_single_conversion_mode(       ADC1);
2019-11-02T07:27:50 < rue_mohr> adc_set_regular_sequence(    ADC1, 4,  (uint8_t[]){0, 1, 2, 3} );
2019-11-02T07:28:02 < rue_mohr> and then tickle adc_start_conversion_direct( ADC1 ); ?
2019-11-02T07:28:09 < rue_mohr> (4 times?)
2019-11-02T07:28:24 < rue_mohr> or once
2019-11-02T07:28:31 < rue_mohr> and I get 4x EOC?
2019-11-02T07:30:34 < rue_mohr> EOC cleared by reading...
2019-11-02T07:31:01 < rue_mohr> the result, ok
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2019-11-02T08:02:51 < Cracki> booo they've raised the 11'8" bridge to 12'4" https://www.youtube.com/user/yovo68
2019-11-02T08:16:55 < rue_mohr> heh
2019-11-02T08:17:07 < rue_mohr> all the signs in the world couln't stop people from hitting it eh?
2019-11-02T08:17:25 < rue_mohr> were going to give in to the stupid people?
2019-11-02T08:17:38 < rue_mohr> is this a prescedent setter?
2019-11-02T08:17:55 < rue_mohr> should we make the world stupidsafer?
2019-11-02T08:18:19 < rue_mohr> How do I do a single batch adc conversion
2019-11-02T08:18:43 < rue_mohr> which I know nobody does, everyone must be doing 1 conversion at a time manuall
2019-11-02T08:18:44 < rue_mohr> y
2019-11-02T08:20:02 < rue_mohr> A single conversion is performed for
2019-11-02T08:20:02 < rue_mohr> each channel of the group
2019-11-02T08:20:35 < rue_mohr> ah, I have to use dma
2019-11-02T08:20:56 < rue_mohr> oh but
2019-11-02T08:23:02 < rue_mohr> but really?
2019-11-02T08:23:16 < rue_mohr> there is no software flag for catching the conversions?
2019-11-02T08:43:36 < Cracki> yall remember when in 2018 that bridge collapsed five days after being put across the road? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hBjntrebxj8
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2019-11-02T09:30:48 < Cracki> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W0jBSWOnjLM
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2019-11-02T14:08:40 < deskwizard> o/
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2019-11-02T15:26:23 < Thorn> Cygnus launch https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yWZKQ73aGrg
2019-11-02T15:33:09 < karlp> rue_mohr: just use dma.  it's what it'
2019-11-02T15:33:11 < karlp> s fore.
2019-11-02T15:33:25 < karlp> why should they try and support doing dumb things?
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2019-11-02T15:37:13 < karlp> jadew: I've got a logitech m510 on my desk, had it for ages now, works perfectly well on this bamboo desk at leasat, if that counts as wood for you...
2019-11-02T15:37:30 < karlp> thing with logitech is you get all the nutcases in the reviews. none of the millions who it "just fucking works" for.
2019-11-02T15:42:51 < aandrew> I've been really happy with logitech shit
2019-11-02T15:43:06 < aandrew> mind you the MS branded peripherals are also really good
2019-11-02T15:43:58 < karlp> MS has been mixed for me, abosolutely loved some, not others.
2019-11-02T15:44:23 < karlp> the logitech m510 was just "not the cheapest, wireless, not thhe most expensive"
2019-11-02T15:45:38 < aandrew> I have an actual bluetooth (not bullshit 2.4G nordic) V10 or something logitech mouse
2019-11-02T15:45:41 < aandrew> it's great
2019-11-02T15:45:54 < aandrew> I use that when travelling. I hate fuckign dongles
2019-11-02T15:46:03 < aandrew> lol @ raising 11'8" bridge
2019-11-02T15:46:21 < aandrew> wonder how much it cost to do that vs how much it cost all the trucking/moving companies over the years
2019-11-02T15:46:57 < aandrew> amazing that that scaffolding is holding up the bridge
2019-11-02T15:47:07 < aandrew> they have 55 ton jacks on top of scaffolding 
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2019-11-02T15:53:04 < aandrew> oh it says in the youtube description. half a mil
2019-11-02T15:54:21 < aandrew> 150 crashes recorded, wow
2019-11-02T15:59:30 < Thorn> T - 1 min
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2019-11-02T16:04:28 < bitmask> my project has failed
2019-11-02T16:09:15 < aandrew> what was your project
2019-11-02T16:13:38 < bitmask> heated jacket
2019-11-02T16:14:20 < bitmask> I have to switch the heater mosfets to high side
2019-11-02T16:16:00 < bitmask> to have only 3 wires going to each heater, shared gnd path for thermistor and heater, zyp was nice to point out that thats a bad idea. I dont need great accuracy, will it be ok? I can only measure the thermistor when the heater is off
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2019-11-02T16:36:08 < jpa-> should be fine if it is off when you measure
2019-11-02T16:39:41 < bitmask> ok
2019-11-02T16:39:48 < bitmask> i'll do that then, project saved
2019-11-02T16:40:17 < bitmask> just gotta change to p-type mosfets and add a bjt for each, not too bad
2019-11-02T16:42:48 < jpa-> what's the problem with n-type mosfets?
2019-11-02T16:43:48 < bitmask> it has to be high side
2019-11-02T16:43:58 < jpa-> why?
2019-11-02T16:44:12 < bitmask> the gnd path wouldn't be connected when the mosfet is off and would pull the thermistor to 12V
2019-11-02T16:45:23 < jpa-> true, though you could just size the pull-down on the mcu side so that the voltage is suitable range for ADC
2019-11-02T16:45:34 < jpa-> (and for higher accuracy, measure what 12V voltage really is)
2019-11-02T16:46:44 < bitmask> but then I could only measure when the heater was on, wouldn't that introduce noise
2019-11-02T16:47:03 < bitmask> oh wait
2019-11-02T16:47:10 < jpa-> nah, you could have the thermistor other leg in 12V
2019-11-02T16:47:48 < bitmask> the problem would be measuring the 12V (or whatever it is at the time), I dont have another pin available for that
2019-11-02T16:48:08 < jpa-> yeah
2019-11-02T16:48:14 < bitmask> so im stuck with a p type
2019-11-02T16:48:29 < jpa-> though i doubt even the voltage drop in GND when measuring when power is on would be high enough to matter in this kind of application
2019-11-02T16:48:49 < jpa-> and you could always calibrate it away for one-off device
2019-11-02T16:49:08 < bitmask> yea I doubt it, i'll test it out, but its easy enough to only measure when the heater is off
2019-11-02T16:50:43 < bitmask> I'm guessing I need a bjt in combo with it? Could you use like a zener to drop the gate voltage? 
2019-11-02T16:51:50 < BrainDamage> you can get a gate driver to put n-mos on high side
2019-11-02T16:52:20 < BrainDamage> they contain a charge pump that can shift the gate above the supply
2019-11-02T16:52:49 < bitmask> wouldnt it be cheaper and use less board space to just use a transistor?
2019-11-02T16:53:21 < BrainDamage> a transistor cannot put the gate above the supply
2019-11-02T16:53:47 < bitmask> why would I need the gate above the supply?
2019-11-02T16:53:59 < BrainDamage> a n-mos in order to be on it needs the gate above the drain by a Vt
2019-11-02T16:54:07 < BrainDamage> err, above the source
2019-11-02T16:54:23 < bitmask> right
2019-11-02T16:54:46 < BrainDamage> and your source is attached to the load, which is the heater
2019-11-02T16:54:47 < bitmask> wait, you mean p type
2019-11-02T16:54:54 < BrainDamage> no, I said n
2019-11-02T16:55:09 < BrainDamage> you can put nmos on high side using a gate driver
2019-11-02T16:55:13 < jadew> new mouse arrived - I like my old one better
2019-11-02T16:55:24 < jadew> I'll get rotary encoders and fix it
2019-11-02T16:55:28 < BrainDamage> p side doesn't require one
2019-11-02T16:55:37 < bitmask> so why not just use p
2019-11-02T16:55:39 < BrainDamage> because you can pull down the gate towards gnd
2019-11-02T16:55:47 < BrainDamage> did you already buy the n?
2019-11-02T16:55:55 < BrainDamage> otherwise, feel free to use the p
2019-11-02T16:55:55 < bitmask> no
2019-11-02T16:55:58 < bitmask> not yet
2019-11-02T16:56:16 < BrainDamage> then pmos with a transistor to drive the gate is fine
2019-11-02T16:56:21 < bitmask> k
2019-11-02T16:59:30 < bitmask> is the transistor just to invert the gate signal? could you drive a p-type with low for on and high for off if you use a pull up from gate to source with a zener to drop the voltage?
2019-11-02T17:00:17 < bitmask> for logic level p chan
2019-11-02T17:02:03 < BrainDamage> no, the transistor is to not have the gpio at gate voltage
2019-11-02T17:02:33 < bitmask> well i guess as the gate charges you have 12V going to the gpio
2019-11-02T17:02:47 < BrainDamage> yes, which would burn the gpio
2019-11-02T17:02:56 < bitmask> alright that answerst hat
2019-11-02T17:05:26 < bitmask> I gotta choose another p chan then
2019-11-02T17:05:30 < bitmask> thats not logic level
2019-11-02T17:38:02 < bitmask> PMV35EPE it is
2019-11-02T17:45:06 < bitmask> hmm maybe I should get away from sot23
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2019-11-02T18:28:10 < rue_mohr2> anyone done discontinious mode on the adc of an stm32?
2019-11-02T18:30:28 < specing> you mean manual trigger?
2019-11-02T18:31:57 < rue_mohr2> I want to manually trigger a batch
2019-11-02T18:32:08 < rue_mohr2> 4 channels
2019-11-02T18:33:14 < rue_mohr2> the datasheet doesn't make it completely clear on what options conflict vs combine
2019-11-02T18:33:31 < rue_mohr2> I have single conversion mode working
2019-11-02T18:33:51 < rue_mohr2> it looks like for discontinious I'd have to set up the dma
2019-11-02T18:34:19 < rue_mohr2> but there is nothing to make sure, for a batch, that the channels and dma locations are in sync
2019-11-02T18:35:14 < specing> my rm has this:
2019-11-02T18:35:17 < specing> for (i= 0 ; i < 4 ; i++)
2019-11-02T18:35:19 < specing> {
2019-11-02T18:35:21 < specing> while ((ADC1->ISR & ADC_ISR_EOC) == 0) /* Wait end of conversion */
2019-11-02T18:35:23 < specing> {
2019-11-02T18:35:25 < specing> /* For robust implementation, add here time-out management */
2019-11-02T18:35:27 < specing> }
2019-11-02T18:35:29 < specing> ADC_Result[i] = ADC1->DR; /* Store the ADC conversion result */
2019-11-02T18:35:31 < specing> }
2019-11-02T18:35:33 < specing> ADC1->CFGR1 ^= ADC_CFGR1_SCANDIR; /* Toggle the scan direction */
2019-11-02T18:35:43 < specing> thus you can write this "loop" as a state machine inside the interrupt handler
2019-11-02T18:35:46 < rue_mohr2> thats single
2019-11-02T18:36:02 < specing> hmm
2019-11-02T18:36:04 < rue_mohr2> I think
2019-11-02T18:36:23 < rue_mohr2> yea looks like it
2019-11-02T18:36:24 < specing> aha
2019-11-02T18:36:31 < specing> yeah I see it now in the datasheet
2019-11-02T18:36:47 < specing> why do you want discontinous mode for?
2019-11-02T18:37:05 < rue_mohr2> to have it automatically read the set of channels for me
2019-11-02T18:37:17 < specing> sounds like a strange mode
2019-11-02T18:37:25 < rue_mohr2> heh
2019-11-02T18:37:28 < specing> rue_mohr2: yeah, but why not continuously?
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2019-11-02T18:37:42 < specing> i.e. one trigger causes all of them to be read in rapid succession
2019-11-02T18:37:45 < rue_mohr2> cause I need to sync it with the system generating the signal
2019-11-02T18:38:09 < specing> and the signal comes first on channel 1, then on ch 2, then ch 3, ...?
2019-11-02T18:38:13 < specing> with some delay?
2019-11-02T18:38:17 < rue_mohr2> I dont want to guess when the readings were taken
2019-11-02T18:38:33 < rue_mohr2> its on all 4 channels at the same time
2019-11-02T18:38:48 < specing> you don't have to guess
2019-11-02T18:38:55 < specing> you know when the EOC event was generated
2019-11-02T18:38:59 < rue_mohr2> so, getting them all in a short time slice would be nice
2019-11-02T18:39:02 < rue_mohr2> hmm
2019-11-02T18:39:11 < specing> (assuming you can respond to EOC in real time)
2019-11-02T18:39:19 < rue_mohr2> does it generate an EOC after each set?
2019-11-02T18:39:23 < specing> like I said, it is a strange mode
2019-11-02T18:40:00 < rue_mohr2> maybe the trick is to get continious working, then flip the discontinius mode
2019-11-02T18:40:11 < specing> rue_mohr2: it generates EOC after each channel's conversion and EOSEQ after the whole sequence
2019-11-02T18:40:33 < rue_mohr2> aaaah I didn't catch the EOSEQ mentioned
2019-11-02T18:40:50 < specing> but EOSEQ is euqivalent to EOC + state machine, since you probably want to save results (in case you are not using DMA)
2019-11-02T18:41:03 < rue_mohr2> yea
2019-11-02T18:41:07 < rue_mohr2> hmm
2019-11-02T18:41:19 < rue_mohr2> I can look at that all agian then
2019-11-02T18:41:25 < specing> DISCEN=1, channels to be converted = 0, 3, 7, 10
2019-11-02T18:41:41 < specing> 4th trigger: channel 10 is converted and both EOC and EOSEQ events are generated
2019-11-02T18:41:42 < rue_mohr2> yea, I want 0, 1, 2, 3
2019-11-02T18:41:50 < rue_mohr2> but yea
2019-11-02T18:41:58 -!- rue_mohr2 is now known as rue_bed
2019-11-02T18:42:03 < specing> so you get EOC to store result and EOSEQ to do timing
2019-11-02T18:42:16 < rue_bed> yup
2019-11-02T18:42:19 < specing> but you can do it while processing EOC and thus EOSEQ is irrelevant
2019-11-02T18:42:33 < rue_bed> and it would wait on the next converstion till the value is read
2019-11-02T18:43:17 < rue_bed> or wuld I have to ticke the start conversin again?
2019-11-02T18:43:44 < rue_bed> which becomes an interesting point with the dma
2019-11-02T18:44:03 < rue_bed> I assume it should start the next value when the last one is read
2019-11-02T18:44:05 < specing> idk
2019-11-02T18:44:14 < specing> I guess you can configure it to loop forever
2019-11-02T18:44:23 < specing> or trigger by timer, or from software or ...
2019-11-02T18:44:34 < rue_bed> the datasheet has all the injection stuff interlaced in, which makes it an awkward read
2019-11-02T18:44:48 < rue_bed> heh, I can manually trigger the timer :)
2019-11-02T18:45:35 < rue_bed> so many places on this chip you can play the semantics game
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2019-11-02T18:49:26 < kakipro> hello
2019-11-02T18:49:43 < kakipro> time to learn how to kicad
2019-11-02T18:54:18 < kakipro> F107 eval board
2019-11-02T18:57:39 < kakipro> it has boot from some pins that are not even alternative uart pins
2019-11-02T18:59:02 < kakipro> it's remapped usart2 pins
2019-11-02T18:59:33 < rue_mohr> I had some fun with remapping uart1
2019-11-02T18:59:46 < rue_mohr> didn't know there was ANOTHER clock to turn on
2019-11-02T18:59:54 < kakipro> so how does the bootloader know?
2019-11-02T19:00:05 < kakipro> it just listens every usart rx pin there is?
2019-11-02T19:01:52 < jpa-> kakipro: it listens on many combinations, yeah
2019-11-02T19:01:54 < jpa-> but not all
2019-11-02T19:02:00 < jpa-> the bootloader appnote has details
2019-11-02T19:03:39 < jpa-> looks like only USART1 and USART2 for F107
2019-11-02T19:08:24 < kakipro> and with usart1 it determines if it's usb in the pins or uart
2019-11-02T19:08:37 < kakipro> default pins of usart1 are also usb
2019-11-02T19:10:37 < jpa-> according to AN2606, USB is on PA11/PA12 and USART1 is on PA9/PA10
2019-11-02T19:10:58 < jpa-> though USB_VBUS is dual-use
2019-11-02T19:17:43 -!- ekaologik [~quassel@p5DC6B578.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds]
2019-11-02T19:20:22 -!- bitmask [~bitmask@c-73-215-237-27.hsd1.nj.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: Gone to sleep...]
2019-11-02T19:20:29 < Laurenceb_> >muh fracking
2019-11-02T19:20:33 < Laurenceb_> >muh putin
2019-11-02T19:21:01 < Laurenceb_> its a media+government thinks people are retarded episode
2019-11-02T19:27:57 < Steffanx> Dated the russian girl yet Laurenceb_?
2019-11-02T19:31:28  * Laurenceb_ loads Russian grrrl into Nord Stream 2 and fires her down with high pressure gas
2019-11-02T19:39:06 < jpa-> so what's the ##stm32 opinion on html datasheets? hot or not?
2019-11-02T19:40:27 < englishman> print to pdf
2019-11-02T19:40:33 < englishman> bam, pdf datasheet
2019-11-02T19:40:49 < kakipro> not hot jpa-
2019-11-02T19:40:59 < kakipro> html is garbage
2019-11-02T19:41:00 < jpa-> sure, there is usually even a pdf version with table of contents available
2019-11-02T19:41:26 < englishman> the last time I went to use nordick's online shit it was down
2019-11-02T19:42:01 < jpa-> nordicks html datasheets seem to reload the contents every time you click a link, which is quite annoying
2019-11-02T19:42:07 < jpa-> intel's seem to work better
2019-11-02T19:42:58 < Steffanx> nordicks HTML is a clusterfuck of pages linking too each other
2019-11-02T19:43:10 < Steffanx> at least thats what my experience is when i tried to find some specific
2019-11-02T19:43:21 < Steffanx> without finding what i needed
2019-11-02T19:45:24 < Steffanx> Are you writing some datasheet mr jpa-?
2019-11-02T19:45:50 < jpa-> no, just been seeing more and more html datasheets and i'm not sure what opinion i should have
2019-11-02T19:46:00 < jpa-> so like all opinion decisions, i outsource that to internet
2019-11-02T19:47:42 < Steffanx> i see
2019-11-02T19:48:00 < Steffanx> i wonder when STM32Cube stuff will move to the web.
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2019-11-02T20:00:26 < kakipro> what do you think of having MCU in root schematic?
2019-11-02T20:01:34 < qyx> I usually have some comments there
2019-11-02T20:01:34 < Steffanx> what about everything in a single sheet?
2019-11-02T20:01:37 < qyx> and block schematic
2019-11-02T20:01:38 < qyx> etc.
2019-11-02T20:01:51 < qyx> but only if the schematic doesn$t fit on A2
2019-11-02T20:02:06 < qyx> if yes, I do not do hierarchical sch.
2019-11-02T20:03:02 < Steffanx> you have an a2 printer?
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2019-11-02T20:05:29 < zyp> the main benefit of hierarchical sheets seems to be when you're having multiple instances of a subcircuit
2019-11-02T20:06:03 < zyp> I haven't done that in a design of my own so far, so I don't bother with hierarchical sheets either
2019-11-02T20:06:55 < kakipro> I have avoided hierarchical sheets by stuffing that A3
2019-11-02T20:07:18 < zyp> I just do multiple A4 sheets without a hierarchy
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2019-11-02T20:07:46 < qyx> I hate A4 because too small
2019-11-02T20:07:59 < qyx> Steffanx: no, but A1 is too big and A3 is too small for more complex things
2019-11-02T20:08:06 < Steffanx> zoom out more.
2019-11-02T20:08:27 < zyp> idk, A4 does fine for my stuff
2019-11-02T20:08:36 < zyp> but I don't really do complicated analog
2019-11-02T20:08:36 < qyx> imagine a 1000 ball bga
2019-11-02T20:08:55 < qyx> don't you do such things everyday?
2019-11-02T20:09:00 < Steffanx> i would do 1 pin/sheet
2019-11-02T20:09:04 < zyp> I'd split a 1000 ball bga across multiple sheets
2019-11-02T20:09:09 < Steffanx> ^
2019-11-02T20:10:17 < zyp> https://bin.jvnv.net/file/16UQA <- here's how I do schematics
2019-11-02T20:10:25 < englishman> hierarchical is great
2019-11-02T20:10:37 < englishman> all new projects are now strict hierarchical
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2019-11-02T20:11:16 < zyp> first sheet is various small shit, second sheet is digital side of metering chip, third sheet is analog side and fourth sheet is isolation
2019-11-02T20:11:25 < englishman> the block diagram main page makes it so easy to understand functional blocks and their interconnects
2019-11-02T20:11:51 < zyp> englishman, true, I'm just too lazy
2019-11-02T20:12:01 < englishman> time to hire an intern
2019-11-02T20:12:11 < englishman> you can pay him in EXPERIENCE
2019-11-02T20:13:31 < Steffanx> the intern joke. damn
2019-11-02T20:13:59 < Steffanx> That moment where you're more useful than some actual employee.
2019-11-02T20:15:26 < kakipro> englishman: how much money you need?
2019-11-02T20:17:05 < kakipro> https://drive.google.com/file/d/1yw8ji_eEaurTq2S3j3mySbY_QbsE-R7b/view?usp=sharing how do I get those ethernet signals to that ethernet box?
2019-11-02T20:17:25 < kakipro> I think net label won't do it
2019-11-02T20:17:44 < Steffanx> use altium.
2019-11-02T20:17:49 < zyp> use altium
2019-11-02T20:17:51 < bitmask> hillo
2019-11-02T20:17:59 < jpa-> kakipro: either add hierarchical pins on the ethernet box (in kicad easiest is to add them first in subschematic and then in root schematic), or use global labels instead
2019-11-02T20:19:59 < kakipro> I added it in the box
2019-11-02T20:20:07 < Steffanx> if you are gonna play around, why not get something newer than f107 kakipro?
2019-11-02T20:20:16 < kakipro> price
2019-11-02T20:20:25 < qyx> lpc?
2019-11-02T20:20:33 < kakipro> were you about to say f407 Steffpro?
2019-11-02T20:20:43 < Steffanx> no
2019-11-02T20:20:55 < Steffanx> 407 is old too :P
2019-11-02T20:20:56 < qyx> how much is f107 now
2019-11-02T20:22:15 < kakipro> like 4 or under
2019-11-02T20:22:17 < rue_mohr> f103 is less than a pro mini
2019-11-02T20:22:44 < kakipro> Steffanx: I was about to use lpc17xx
2019-11-02T20:22:51 < kakipro> but it's expensives
2019-11-02T20:22:51 < Steffanx> Good you didnt do that
2019-11-02T20:23:02 < kakipro> now you can still recommend a chip
2019-11-02T20:23:10 < kakipro> with ethernets
2019-11-02T20:23:26 < qyx> wiznet
2019-11-02T20:23:40 < kakipro> did you have a chip for me?
2019-11-02T20:23:48 < Steffanx> best thing is that the lpc17xx stuff can only use a specific 32k ram for the mac. That's all the DMA can use.
2019-11-02T20:23:50 < Steffanx> such nice
2019-11-02T20:24:46 < kakipro> lpc17 was cheap once
2019-11-02T20:25:09 < kakipro> a lot of chip for the price
2019-11-02T20:26:01 < kakipro> jpa: i have the pin in the box
2019-11-02T20:26:24 < qyx> zyp: https://www.mouser.sk/ProductDetail/Octavo-Systems/OSD3358-512M-BAS?qs=sGAEpiMZZMsyLT%2FX9x4G61r4IPL%2F1ROJ5SasX3nk4LALGJT6CkXZwA%3D%3D
2019-11-02T20:26:26 < kakipro> jpa-: do I now do what? connect a net to that pin in that box?
2019-11-02T20:26:39 < qyx> in order you forgot your BGA fun
2019-11-02T20:26:45 < qyx> 1.27mm pitch is nice
2019-11-02T20:26:50 < jpa-> yeah? the pin the box is just like a pin in any other component
2019-11-02T20:26:52 < qyx> for your mainboard lunix
2019-11-02T20:26:59 < kakipro> jpa-: thanks
2019-11-02T20:27:33 < kakipro> are power signals global?
2019-11-02T20:27:36 < kakipro> gnd?
2019-11-02T20:28:04 < jpa-> yeah, they're global
2019-11-02T20:28:39 < Steffanx> which one did you pick mr kakipro?
2019-11-02T20:28:41 < Steffanx> 107rb?
2019-11-02T20:30:02 < kakipro> vct
2019-11-02T20:30:28 < Steffanx> if so, this beats the mouser price: https://www.mouser.fi/ProductDetail/STMicroelectronics/STM32F750V8T6?qs=sGAEpiMZZMuoKKEcg8mMKJ29ob8kKavQm0pJGZkoh2eTy0i6FgppiQ%3D%3D beats your f107vc price.
2019-11-02T20:30:32 < Steffanx> not sure about features but ..
2019-11-02T20:30:59 < Steffanx> not sure why its even cheaper, such m7
2019-11-02T20:31:08 < qyx> f750 is no flash, isn't it?
2019-11-02T20:31:17 < qyx> 64k I mean, which is basically 0
2019-11-02T20:31:28 < Steffanx> oh its only 64k indeed
2019-11-02T20:31:32 < kakipro> just enough for bootloader
2019-11-02T20:31:32 < Steffanx> explains it all
2019-11-02T20:31:41 < qyx> add a qspi for 0.50
2019-11-02T20:31:43 < Steffanx> so not beaten by kakiprice
2019-11-02T20:36:12 < Steffanx> Im surprised to see an english project name, kakipro:P Shouldnt it be "solmun teho"?
2019-11-02T20:36:29 < kakipro> yes
2019-11-02T20:36:43 < kakipro> something like that
2019-11-02T20:39:01 < Steffanx> Doesnt your autism tell you to always have gnd pointing down and a power rail pointing up, kakipro?
2019-11-02T20:39:57 < kakipro> unless it disturbs visuals
2019-11-02T20:40:20 < kakipro> unless it's visual disturbance
2019-11-02T20:41:20 < Steffanx> it is.
2019-11-02T20:42:21 < jpa-> if you live in a cave, every direction is ground
2019-11-02T20:43:54 < kakipro> so I need to separate that bat from there?
2019-11-02T20:44:03 < kakipro> using net labeling
2019-11-02T20:51:28 < qyx> Steffanx: thats one of the main drawing guidelines
2019-11-02T20:51:31 < qyx> gnd up is not valid
2019-11-02T20:52:08 < qyx> it is like having a label vertically
2019-11-02T20:52:45 < qyx> also I don't like kicad's symbols having power on top and gnd on the bottom of symbols
2019-11-02T20:52:51 < qyx> -symbols
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2019-11-02T21:04:53 < kakipro> I must make that one expection to the rule
2019-11-02T21:04:59 < kakipro> *exception
2019-11-02T21:11:48 < englishman> kakipro: I have a job for you
2019-11-02T21:11:53 < kakipro> srly?
2019-11-02T21:11:55 < englishman> they are begging for people
2019-11-02T21:12:07 < kakipro> they are begging it-
2019-11-02T21:12:09 < kakipro> .
2019-11-02T21:12:20 < englishman> they hired a headhunter
2019-11-02T21:12:38 < kakipro> you?
2019-11-02T21:12:41 < specing> who is they
2019-11-02T21:12:56 < kakipro> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=m1cRGVaJF7Y musics
2019-11-02T21:13:03 < englishman> you can't know ada to work here
2019-11-02T21:13:15 < englishman> it's a non-requisite
2019-11-02T21:13:30 < englishman> anti-requisite
2019-11-02T21:13:44 < kakipro> it's anti-requisite?
2019-11-02T21:13:53 < kakipro> perfect
2019-11-02T21:14:07 < kakipro> I know it's a name
2019-11-02T21:14:46 < kakipro> I know too much?
2019-11-02T21:16:18 < kakipro> should I see hierarchical labels update automatically to subschematic?=
2019-11-02T21:18:13 < kakipro> wrong button
2019-11-02T21:19:28 < kakipro> now I have right button
2019-11-02T21:19:45 < kakipro> symbols are right way around per pin type
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2019-11-02T21:22:10 < englishman> just don't put net names on harnesses unless you know what you're doing
2019-11-02T21:23:38 < englishman> lol e-golf discontinued in USA for 2020
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2019-11-02T21:27:33 < kakipro> englishman: https://drive.google.com/file/d/1Q_6UwnvLQ3Ivh6oj-jeafTY3xTf593OY/view?usp=sharing are you saying not to do this?
2019-11-02T21:30:14 < kakipro> I did this wrong way around
2019-11-02T21:31:24 < englishman> do what
2019-11-02T21:31:28 < englishman> use eagle?
2019-11-02T21:31:36 < englishman> you should never use eagle
2019-11-02T21:32:15 < kakipro> not but net names and things
2019-11-02T21:33:04 < kakipro> I noticed import works in only one direction
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2019-11-02T21:43:26 < rue_mohr> generally if its going the other direction its called export
2019-11-02T21:44:06 < kakipro> OH
2019-11-02T21:44:13 < kakipro> :o
2019-11-02T21:44:18 < kakipro> anyway kicad
2019-11-02T21:45:07 < rue_mohr> wasnt there an eagle trick where you scale your project 1/1000
2019-11-02T21:47:10 < rue_mohr> there might also be a solution using a chicken, most of the parts you need, a box, and an infinite improbability drive
2019-11-02T21:50:31 < kakipro> now we need select PHY
2019-11-02T21:50:56 < kakipro> would you ever turn off PHY completelly?
2019-11-02T21:51:44 < kakipro> not to place it in powerdown mode but cut the power
2019-11-02T21:56:23 < qyx> no need to select a phy
2019-11-02T21:56:29 < qyx> there are some in zypsnips
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2019-11-02T21:57:07 < qyx> ksz8081rnaca
2019-11-02T21:57:11 < qyx> or newer
2019-11-02T22:02:18 < kakipro> what do you think about DP83822H?
2019-11-02T22:02:39 < qyx> nothing
2019-11-02T22:03:39 < kakipro> it can be run from 1.8 to 3.3 single source
2019-11-02T22:03:44 < kakipro> also energy efficient ethernet
2019-11-02T22:06:51 < kakipro> analog voltage is 1.8 or 3.3 though
2019-11-02T22:09:26 < kakipro> 107 doesn't go all way to 1.8
2019-11-02T22:12:52 < kakipro> which was a suprise
2019-11-02T22:15:02 < kakipro> lcp17 does even worse
2019-11-02T22:15:19 < kakipro> 2.4
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2019-11-02T22:32:19 < kakipro> PHY sips considerable amount of current even in deep power down 
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2019-11-02T22:33:55 < kakipro> better add option to cut the power
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2019-11-02T23:13:22 < Steffanx> what is it going to do, except for ethernettting, kakipro?
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2019-11-02T23:31:42 < decimad> Hrmmm, considering shorted line faults on integrated wires... can one reasonably assume there is a dominant level?
2019-11-02T23:32:46 < decimad> e.g. if two wires are shorted and one is driven high, while the other is driven low, low "wins"?
2019-11-02T23:38:29 < Cracki> no, smoke wins
2019-11-02T23:38:54 < Cracki> and you'll see voltage levels between what they should be.
2019-11-02T23:39:00 < Cracki> before it explodes.
2019-11-02T23:39:08 < Cracki> so whatever you plan to do, it's a bad idea
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2019-11-02T23:40:02 < decimad> I'm only trying to detect the case, not induce it ;)
2019-11-02T23:41:56 < BrainDamage> the voltage it settles depends on the relative drive strength of the lines
2019-11-02T23:42:16 < BrainDamage> you can see it as a simple voltage divider
2019-11-02T23:42:42 < decimad> I'm talking internal logic lines, don't know the resistances involved :(
2019-11-02T23:42:54 < BrainDamage> ( in reality it's a bit more complex because in those conditions both transistors are in quadratic region )
2019-11-02T23:43:36 < BrainDamage> you'll end up with something like vdd/2 or so, if the drives are symmetrical
2019-11-02T23:43:44 < BrainDamage> and it's not something you can read digitally
2019-11-02T23:43:59 < BrainDamage> in fact, you're committing a logic error because the circuit won't recognize it as neither 0 or 1
2019-11-02T23:45:01 < decimad> so if two lines short, all four combinations could result at the destination if they are at different levels, I take
2019-11-02T23:45:30 < decimad> if they're *driven* to a different level
2019-11-02T23:46:37 < BrainDamage> four? you can get 3 states: valid 0, valid 1, and neither
2019-11-02T23:48:02 < BrainDamage> states defined as 0:V < Vil, neither: Vil=<V=<Vih, V>Vih
2019-11-02T23:48:03 < decimad> oh I mean the two wire destinations, four combinations ... or could the "intermediate" value even cause cascading failure in the destination circuit? :(
2019-11-02T23:48:16 < BrainDamage> it will cause a cascading failure
2019-11-02T23:48:36 < BrainDamage> many circuits have protections against this
2019-11-02T23:48:56 < BrainDamage> eg inverter chain, or a latch at the input
2019-11-02T23:49:10 < BrainDamage> so that the "neither" state gets carried to a valid logic level
2019-11-02T23:50:06 < decimad> would that not be the case for a normal "clocked" logic thingy? I'm trying to detect such faults on an internal address bus :(
2019-11-02T23:50:38 < BrainDamage> consider that there's RNG based off this
2019-11-02T23:51:05 < BrainDamage> when you cross asyncronous clock domains, you can sample a voltage that's under logic transition
2019-11-02T23:51:11 < BrainDamage> and end up with the "neither"
2019-11-02T23:51:20 < BrainDamage> eventually the latches will fix it
2019-11-02T23:51:26 < BrainDamage> but it'll be a random value
2019-11-02T23:52:36 < decimad> Random would be okay, e.g. "any of the four the combinations", but if I can't count on that, then how am I supposed to test for such faults?
2019-11-02T23:52:56 < BrainDamage> from the receiver pov: you cannot
2019-11-02T23:53:06 < BrainDamage> you can try writing a value and then reading it back
2019-11-02T23:53:19 < BrainDamage> and if the state does not change, there's an internal short
2019-11-02T23:54:48 < decimad> What I'm trying to do is read expected values from fixed addresses, and arguing that if a short between some pair of address lines would result in invalid address (bus error) or other known locations with different value, if I receive the expected value then there's no short between those two wires
2019-11-02T23:55:41 < decimad> but that takes a lot of assumptions "out of thin air" I guess
2019-11-02T23:57:06 < BrainDamage> I would try to write a sequence of 1 to a register, then read it back and xor it, repeat with 0
2019-11-02T23:57:58 < BrainDamage> if there's no line fault both tests will yield 0
2019-11-02T23:59:36 < BrainDamage> actually make it 10101, and then the reverse
2019-11-02T23:59:41 < decimad> Well, I didn't concentrate on data lines yet, since I though that the address line probem is way more problematic, as the address space is "sparse" and I can't just write everywhere
2019-11-02T23:59:44 < BrainDamage> this way you can test for crossed lines too
2019-11-02T23:59:44 < zyp> what's the context here?
--- Day changed Sun Nov 03 2019
2019-11-03T00:01:02 < decimad> Generating diagnostic coverage for a periphera bus out of thin air with reason...
2019-11-03T00:01:36 < zyp> I think we had a discussion about that in school when we were talking about boundary testing
2019-11-03T00:01:42 < decimad> the usual suspects are stucks and shorts...
2019-11-03T00:01:56 < decimad> on address, data and control lines
2019-11-03T00:02:09 < zyp> IIRC the random pattern is the most efficient
2019-11-03T00:02:48 < zyp> something like a few random iterations finds like 99.999% of error conditions
2019-11-03T00:03:10 < decimad> for data or for addresses?
2019-11-03T00:03:25 < zyp> but that was probably 12 years ago, so I don't remember the specifics :)
2019-11-03T00:03:58 < BrainDamage> the only way to test for addresses is to read from data sources with known value
2019-11-03T00:04:10 < zyp> either? write n different random values to random addresses and read them back?
2019-11-03T00:04:28 < zyp> won't catch crossed address lines, but if it's only sram that doesn't really matter
2019-11-03T00:04:44 < BrainDamage> you wouldn't be able to distinguish a stuck line with writing to random addresses
2019-11-03T00:05:02 < BrainDamage> because you'll consistently write and read to the same cell
2019-11-03T00:05:07 < zyp> no
2019-11-03T00:05:13 < zyp> do all writes first, then do all reads
2019-11-03T00:05:18 < decimad> @BrainDamage: The fixed values is what I described up there, maybe badly
2019-11-03T00:05:49 < BrainDamage> ah yes, if the sequence is different, then you'd see it, my bad
2019-11-03T00:06:32 < zyp> hmm, might not catch a single address line stuck
2019-11-03T00:07:11 < zyp> since you'd only catch that by writing two values to the same effective cell
2019-11-03T00:07:16 < decimad> I could also test with SRAMs, but it's a sparse peripheral space with lots of gaps and only a small part of the locations is writeable for me
2019-11-03T00:08:05 < decimad> a very very small part, as those tests need to run "live"
2019-11-03T00:08:36 < zyp> oh, are you aiming for a SIL rating?
2019-11-03T00:08:47 < zyp> i.e. is this a functional safety requirement?
2019-11-03T00:09:44 < decimad> yes
2019-11-03T00:10:47 < zyp> fun
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2019-11-03T00:18:06 < steve> so I just discovered..... FTDI's don't work at non-standard baud rates?
2019-11-03T00:20:03 < qyx> whats a nonstandard baud rate
2019-11-03T00:20:19 < qyx> I used some ftdi at 250k in the past
2019-11-03T00:21:38 < steve> can't find a command line to do it.  I'd like to do stty -F /dev/ttyUSB0 31250 but it says invalid argument
2019-11-03T00:22:01 < qyx> stty -F /dev/ttyUSB0 speed 31250 maybe?
2019-11-03T00:22:32 < qyx> oh default is speed
2019-11-03T00:22:34 < qyx> idk then
2019-11-03T00:23:57 < steve> was your ~250k baud a multiple of a standard baud rate?  eg 115200 or 9600?
2019-11-03T00:25:31 < qyx> no
2019-11-03T00:26:21 < steve> how did you set the baud rate then?  not with stty -F ?
2019-11-03T00:27:09 < qyx> https://discuss.96boards.org/t/linaro-ttymsm1-uart0-dmx-250000-baudrate/887
2019-11-03T00:27:15 < qyx> set the third post
2019-11-03T00:27:19 < qyx> he is using setserial
2019-11-03T00:27:26 < qyx> vith some spd_cust setting
2019-11-03T00:27:29 < qyx> *with
2019-11-03T00:28:29 < qyx> *see
2019-11-03T00:31:24 < steve> cool thanks! I'll look into that
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2019-11-03T01:23:30 < mawk> get something slightly above or below steve maybe ?
2019-11-03T01:24:19 < steve> nah it's MIDI spec.  I guess the spec is older than the standardizing of baud rates?
2019-11-03T01:35:35 < zyp> «MIDI messages are made up of 8-bit words (commonly called bytes) that are transmitted serially at a rate of 31.25 kbit/s. This rate was chosen because it is an exact division of 1 MHz, the operational speed of many early microprocessors.»
2019-11-03T01:35:48 < zyp> don't think they cared much about serial port baud rates either way
2019-11-03T01:37:49 < decimad> hrmmm, I think I might have approached this incorrectly. With a few well placed reads you can rule out a certain set of shorts etc. according to the thoughts above, but at some point the proof becomes uneconomical... and at that point and with that "easy" data one can analyze which faults are actually dangerous and if they are already covered by the "easy" data... I guess....
2019-11-03T01:41:06 < mawk> then edit the driver steve 
2019-11-03T01:41:12 < mawk> not very hard to do
2019-11-03T01:41:17 < mawk> follow the advice from that qualcomm dude
2019-11-03T01:45:27 < steve> That'll be a good learning experience.  For now, it's acceptable and infinitely easier to use an arduino as a baud-rate bridge
2019-11-03T01:47:09 < steve> or no.  use arduino as an FTDI replacement that has easier configurable baud rates
2019-11-03T01:50:47 < decimad> Either it was me or the FTDI docs are really lackluster... Also their WinAPI-clone windows drivers don't support completion ports, so you're stuck with COM-emulation, which is barely usable for the 4-channel versions of their chips given the small rom space... Generally I hate FTDI chips.
2019-11-03T01:51:26 < steve> ^ that
2019-11-03T01:52:50 < steve> decimad, alternatives?
2019-11-03T01:53:06 < decimad> ethernet :)
2019-11-03T01:55:11 < steve> nah, USB-to-serial can't be replaced, now that PC's don't have serial ports
2019-11-03T01:55:57 < steve> ethernet to serial would work but I'd imagine theyre too expensive
2019-11-03T01:56:01 < decimad> well I suppose USB if fine too, if it weren't for the vendor ids...
2019-11-03T01:56:42 < rue_mohr> why cant a 8800 and an stm32 bridge ethernet to serial?
2019-11-03T01:56:55 < decimad> is it really cost saving nowadays to do the "cheap" serial and then buy a chip to convert to USB?
2019-11-03T01:58:19 < decimad> or are you interfacing legacy serial devices?
2019-11-03T01:59:08 < steve> rue_mohr i suppose.  not familiar with ethernet PHY.  you'd need a ethernet jack with the transformers in it right?
2019-11-03T01:59:31 < rue_mohr> yea, but w8800
2019-11-03T01:59:34 < mawk> infinitely easier ???
2019-11-03T02:00:01 < mawk> I'm just talking about a minuscule change in a kernel module somewhere
2019-11-03T02:00:14 < mawk> probably the ftdi_serial module or whatever
2019-11-03T02:00:20 < mawk> I can even show you the way if you're nice
2019-11-03T02:00:21 < rue_mohr> we w5500
2019-11-03T02:00:37 < rue_mohr> https://www.aliexpress.com/item/32901601162.html
2019-11-03T02:00:39 < steve> decimad unless i'm missing something, USB-to-serial is the cheapeast and easiest way to interface a microcontroller to a PC
2019-11-03T02:01:48 < steve> rue_mohr oh, that is cheap
2019-11-03T02:01:48 < rue_mohr> enc28j60 too
2019-11-03T02:01:56 < rue_mohr> but I dont know whats easeier to use
2019-11-03T02:02:06 < rue_mohr> one of them does a LOT more than the other
2019-11-03T02:02:29 < rue_mohr> https://www.aliexpress.com/item/32947110478.html
2019-11-03T02:04:01 < steve> usb-to-serial works out of the box, but if you have 2 of them in your system you have to assign them, which makes it the same amount of work as ethernet comm
2019-11-03T02:04:32 < rue_mohr> well, you have to mind who they come in as
2019-11-03T02:04:38 < rue_mohr> I use dmesg
2019-11-03T02:05:00 < rue_mohr> but I have not had more than 5 plugged in at once
2019-11-03T02:05:16 < steve> mawk I may take you up on that, not now though : )
2019-11-03T02:06:20 < rue_mohr> I'd really like to know how to make one of those modules dhcp an address on a network and ping an address
2019-11-03T02:06:39 < mawk> which ftdi serial chip is it tho ?
2019-11-03T02:06:40 < rue_mohr> and connect to a plaintext port
2019-11-03T02:06:42 < mawk> not all support custom baudrate
2019-11-03T02:07:14 < steve> rue_mohr sorry I jumped, was referring to an embedded linux device communicating to 2 microcontrollers via 2 FTDI's.  Can't check dmesg there.  I had success with udev rules
2019-11-03T02:07:28 < mawk> see here https://elixir.bootlin.com/linux/latest/source/drivers/usb/serial/ftdi_sio.c#L1262
2019-11-03T02:07:45 < rue_mohr> by port id?
2019-11-03T02:07:52 < steve> serial number
2019-11-03T02:08:01 < rue_mohr> hard, when china sets all the serial numbers the same
2019-11-03T02:08:14 < steve> lol
2019-11-03T02:09:16 < steve> oh actually it was port id.  eg. 1.1 notation.  or maybe tried both can't remember
2019-11-03T02:09:38 < rue_mohr> that would make sense
2019-11-03T02:09:50 < rue_mohr> (unless your paying for the good stuff)
2019-11-03T02:11:25 < steve> mawk that tool is slick, will check it out thanks!
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2019-11-03T02:15:46 < decimad> hehe, I like how all the product's ids are centralized in the core driver
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2019-11-03T02:18:35 < mawk> yeah there are 836 vendor/product pairs for FTDI
2019-11-03T02:18:38 < mawk> in that module
2019-11-03T02:31:15 < steve> I have FT232RL
2019-11-03T02:32:42 < mawk> hmm ok so
2019-11-03T02:33:04 < mawk> max baudrate is 3000000
2019-11-03T02:34:11 < mawk> hardware limit
2019-11-03T02:35:13 < steve> I want 31250 kbaud
2019-11-03T02:35:53 < mawk> so you want 31250000 bauds ?
2019-11-03T02:36:05 < steve> lol no sorry, 31250 baud
2019-11-03T02:36:08 < mawk> that's like 10 times the hardware limit
2019-11-03T02:36:09 < mawk> ah
2019-11-03T02:36:12 < mawk> then you're fine
2019-11-03T02:36:22 < mawk> just twist a bit the arm of the relevant ioctl
2019-11-03T02:36:23 < mawk> let me see
2019-11-03T02:42:22 < steve> I have to read up on ioctl :\  ...tomorrow
2019-11-03T02:47:58 < mawk> don't worry
2019-11-03T02:48:01 < mawk> I'm reading it up for you
2019-11-03T02:48:05 < mawk> it's interesting stuff
2019-11-03T02:48:14 < mawk> I'm just trying to find the right hooking point
2019-11-03T02:49:57 < mawk> ok I know steve I think
2019-11-03T02:50:02 < mawk> no need to edit the kernel driver apparently
2019-11-03T02:50:26 < mawk> just a little C program
2019-11-03T02:51:40 < mawk> come baaaack
2019-11-03T02:52:10 < Laurenceb_> >Warning: some boards on 8kun might have content of an adult, mature, or offensive nature. Please cease use of this website if you are under 18 years of age
2019-11-03T02:52:12 < Laurenceb_> kek
2019-11-03T02:52:36 < specing> 13 year old me ENTER ENTER ENTER 
2019-11-03T02:53:55 < mawk> you need to set in the termios structure cflag to (cflag & ~CBAUD) | BOTHER then set the real speed to ispeed and ospeed steve 
2019-11-03T02:53:59 < mawk> no need to mess with kernel at all
2019-11-03T02:54:02 < mawk> let me show you
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2019-11-03T03:44:09 < mawk> steve come back my love
2019-11-03T03:44:13 < mawk> I have your code
2019-11-03T03:44:51 < mawk> really it's just this: https://paste.serveur.io/8w04Gc4N.c
2019-11-03T03:44:55 < mawk> incredibly easy
2019-11-03T03:45:04 < mawk> then you can set an arbitrary speed
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2019-11-03T04:04:17 < kakinull> bitmask: howe is jacket heater?
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2019-11-03T04:54:09 < Thorn> does jlcpcb understand -roundholes.txt and -slotholes.txt?
2019-11-03T04:55:02 < Thorn> because there doesn't seem to be a way to make altium output all holes in a single file
2019-11-03T04:55:12 < Thorn> *altium disaster
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2019-11-03T05:25:53 < englishman> every time i used that chink trash pcb, yeah
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2019-11-03T05:56:31 < Thorn> good, thanks
2019-11-03T06:10:26 < mawk> oh I forgot
2019-11-03T06:10:28 < mawk> steve: https://gitlab.serveur.io/nicolas/setbaudrate
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2019-11-03T07:14:37 < R2COM> dongs wow this vr is freakin awesome, i tried elite dangerous with it and already got voiceattack software working too
2019-11-03T07:37:39 < jadew> R2COM, which one did you get?
2019-11-03T07:39:55 < R2COM> valve index
2019-11-03T07:40:47 < jadew> 1 killo dollars?
2019-11-03T07:40:52 < R2COM> ya
2019-11-03T07:40:54 < jadew> *kilo
2019-11-03T07:41:04 < jadew> why didn't you go for the vive?
2019-11-03T07:41:07 < jadew> is this one better?
2019-11-03T07:41:12 < R2COM> which vive
2019-11-03T07:41:14 < R2COM> cosmos?
2019-11-03T07:41:21 < jadew> yeah
2019-11-03T07:41:27 < R2COM> its inferior tracking system
2019-11-03T07:41:27 < jadew> it's a bit cheaper, no?
2019-11-03T07:41:30 < jadew> ah ha
2019-11-03T07:42:15 < jadew> it's wired?
2019-11-03T07:42:18 < R2COM> of course
2019-11-03T07:57:14 < jadew> in what ways is it better than the rift s?
2019-11-03T07:57:21 < jadew> I see that one costs only $400
2019-11-03T08:00:26 < Cracki> wew https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3q-qfNlEP4A
2019-11-03T08:02:43 < R2COM> oculus rift has 1 screen with high res, that forces a lower refresh rate
2019-11-03T08:03:11 < R2COM> 80hz vs 120hz on valve index (or 144hz on valve index optional)
2019-11-03T08:03:16 < R2COM> valve index has 2 displays
2019-11-03T08:03:33 < R2COM> plus oculus has inferior controllers (less sensors on controllers)
2019-11-03T08:03:49 < R2COM> plus inferior tracking system compared to valve index with laser tracking
2019-11-03T08:03:55 < R2COM> thus a low price
2019-11-03T08:03:59 < jadew> got it
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2019-11-03T08:26:16 < rue_mohr> what about tilt5?
2019-11-03T08:28:28 < R2COM> *dickstarter vr*
2019-11-03T08:28:53 < jadew> the one by jerry elisworth or what's her name?
2019-11-03T08:29:31 < jadew> that actually looks cool, might be a better gift for a kid than a VR headset
2019-11-03T08:29:43 < jadew> I was just reading that they're not recommended for kids at all
2019-11-03T08:30:16 < jadew> because a lot of neurons required for movement and spacial stuff shut off when you put the headset on
2019-11-03T08:30:25 < jadew> and that might have an effect on how they develop
2019-11-03T08:30:59 < R2COM> nah
2019-11-03T08:31:05 < R2COM> they are not there 24/7
2019-11-03T08:31:34 < jadew> you don't know my kid, he was on vacation this week and spent most of it playing starcraft
2019-11-03T08:31:50 < R2COM> thats what i did when i was a kid
2019-11-03T08:31:51 < jadew> we had to cut his access to the PC or the TV to stop it
2019-11-03T08:32:20 < jadew> I know, but they have to do other shit too
2019-11-03T08:32:26 < R2COM> like what
2019-11-03T08:32:38 < jadew> play with other stuff, find other activities
2019-11-03T08:32:41 < jadew> discover the world
2019-11-03T08:33:15 < R2COM> nothing what i did outside while being a kid considered safe
2019-11-03T08:33:29 < R2COM> playing PC cant hurt really
2019-11-03T08:33:33 < R2COM> he is at home
2019-11-03T08:33:51 < jadew> that's true, but you learn a lot from playing with real stuff
2019-11-03T08:34:06 < jadew> you learn about physics for one
2019-11-03T08:34:14 < BrainDamage> interacting irl allows you to learn socialization
2019-11-03T08:34:20 < jadew> that too
2019-11-03T08:34:21 < BrainDamage> which is a very important life skill
2019-11-03T08:34:51 < R2COM> you just chat in multiplayer
2019-11-03T08:35:13 < jadew> granted, we have shitty weather and he has nobody to socialize with, but he could do something else
2019-11-03T08:35:53 < jadew> I got him boxing gloves and some protection equipment, I hope he'll get into that
2019-11-03T08:36:04 < R2COM> for what?
2019-11-03T08:36:33 < jadew> he likes to punch me
2019-11-03T08:36:48 < jadew> saw an UFC fight with me and got really excited
2019-11-03T08:36:52 < R2COM> its ok but i do not recomment boxing for very small kid
2019-11-03T08:37:03 < R2COM> the best is to give kid to wrestling
2019-11-03T08:37:10 < R2COM> because it does not involve punches
2019-11-03T08:37:25 < jadew> well, he's not getting punched, he's only practicing with me now
2019-11-03T08:37:31 < R2COM> karate is good too (as an excercise) for kid
2019-11-03T08:37:35 < jadew> but yeah, I was considering wrestling for him
2019-11-03T08:37:48 < jadew> or karate, yes
2019-11-03T08:37:50 < R2COM> boxing is OK to start at age 17 or so
2019-11-03T08:38:11 < jadew> yeah, but boxing is the most effective
2019-11-03T08:38:28 < jadew> as a self-defense skill, it's the best you could learn fast
2019-11-03T08:38:41 < R2COM> i did boxing in 20s 
2019-11-03T08:38:48 < jadew> I was thinking wrestling + kickboxing for him
2019-11-03T08:39:00 < jadew> R2COM, nice
2019-11-03T08:39:06 < R2COM> its just ok to start wrestling (maybe even judo)
2019-11-03T08:39:11 < jadew> I wish I was into that when I was younger
2019-11-03T08:39:14 < R2COM> and after 20s do boxing
2019-11-03T08:39:48 < jadew> right, judo too - very easy to pick up and use
2019-11-03T08:40:07 < jadew> did a bit of judo as a kid, came in handy once or twice
2019-11-03T08:40:47 < R2COM> where? in a bed during honeymoon?
2019-11-03T08:41:18 < jadew> heh, on the playground, I was playing unsupervised and a lot of the kids were bullies
2019-11-03T08:41:33 < R2COM> lol
2019-11-03T08:41:58 < jadew> once you throw one around and you knock some teeths out, they stop messing with you
2019-11-03T08:42:11 < R2COM> i thought you are from eastern europe, but what you describe is soooo canadian
2019-11-03T08:42:34 < jadew> heh, must be a general thing
2019-11-03T08:43:13 < R2COM> i never was supervised as a kid
2019-11-03T08:43:35 < jadew> me neither, which is why I have several stories about how I almost died
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2019-11-03T08:43:44 < R2COM> and yes, in street/yards its all open and you deal with tough guys
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2019-11-03T10:09:55 < qyx> I dealt with them by letting them copy my homeworks
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2019-11-03T10:52:53 < Thorn> >Discount: -US$16.73
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2019-11-03T11:05:10 < Cracki> pyromaniacs with a big ass fire: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ee-xHNQljt4
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2019-11-03T11:16:02 < qyx> much CO2
2019-11-03T11:17:05 < Cracki> burning wood to trigger the doomsday cultists.
2019-11-03T11:17:51 < Cracki> extinction of europeans gives them sexual pleasure.
2019-11-03T11:20:37 < qyx> so I forgot all the multi output relay drivers and stuff
2019-11-03T11:20:48 < qyx> split the 32 output board into smaller ones
2019-11-03T11:21:07 < qyx> now I have a 1.00€ stm32f030 and a 0.50€ uln2003a
2019-11-03T11:21:34 < qyx> also I concluded I don't need all the protective stuff, open load detection, short detection, etc
2019-11-03T11:22:17 < Cracki> wat r u doing, home automation?\
2019-11-03T11:22:46 < qyx> with 7 darlington drivers in the ULN I have two for solenoids, 4 for LED and the last one do drive reflective sensors/optocouplers
2019-11-03T11:22:47 < Cracki> >seven (not 8!) darlington pairs
2019-11-03T11:22:48 < Cracki> odd
2019-11-03T11:22:59 < qyx> yeah, it has 7
2019-11-03T11:23:54 < qyx> https://i.pinimg.com/originals/20/9d/62/209d62a92d54e224206969323e1a0a48.jpg
2019-11-03T11:23:56 < qyx> this kind of thing
2019-11-03T11:25:56 < Cracki> ah
2019-11-03T11:26:07 < Cracki> around here they're owned by DHL
2019-11-03T11:26:56 < Cracki> amazon only "owns" courier service. any parcel stashing you do in local shops that cooperate with DHL or another national parcel service
2019-11-03T11:27:11 < qyx> we have multiple such companies
2019-11-03T11:27:39 < qyx> some offer their boxes for eshops
2019-11-03T11:27:40 < Cracki> sometimes I think such a locker would be nice for just our 10-party house
2019-11-03T11:27:45 < qyx> some eshops have their own
2019-11-03T11:27:59 < qyx> post office too
2019-11-03T11:28:26 < qyx> you can redirect your parcel to a box to get it when the post office is closed
2019-11-03T11:28:48 < qyx> which suprised me
2019-11-03T11:29:08 < qyx> given our east-eu nature and the post office being partially owned by the state
2019-11-03T11:29:15 < qyx> such level of services
2019-11-03T11:29:33 < qyx> apparently 2019 is coming here too
2019-11-03T11:29:44 < Cracki> someone must have accidentally put a sane, non-selfish person in control of that aspect
2019-11-03T11:30:18 < Cracki> or they put someone in place who's receptive to the right motivation by enterprises
2019-11-03T11:30:38 < qyx> heh
2019-11-03T11:31:06 < Cracki> there isn't much to gain from being "core" eu.
2019-11-03T11:32:19 < Cracki> so... you're building such a locker... but for who? you don't seem like you're doing it for amazon or the post office
2019-11-03T11:33:26 < qyx> no, a small company offering similar services with different content inside boxes
2019-11-03T11:33:38 < qyx> also much smaller
2019-11-03T11:34:30 < Cracki> these door locks must be available off the shelf, eh
2019-11-03T11:34:37 < Cracki> probably take 24v
2019-11-03T11:34:50 < qyx> yeah, multiple options
2019-11-03T11:35:06 < qyx> mostly 12V or 24V
2019-11-03T11:35:06 < Cracki> 24v is a nice industrial standard
2019-11-03T11:35:31 < Cracki> once you have 24v you can grab anything that's used industrially
2019-11-03T11:36:05 < Cracki> sensors too
2019-11-03T11:36:08 < qyx> I can, I can wire it with industrial io, profinet connected, industrial plc with a industrial lte router
2019-11-03T11:36:19 < qyx> also with sensors
2019-11-03T11:36:39 < qyx> but it would be 20000€ instead of ~2000
2019-11-03T11:36:40 < Cracki> hehe I once looked up this "io link" stuff. iirc it's basically uart at 24v isntead of ttl
2019-11-03T11:36:55 < Cracki> eh nobody needs a PLC in that
2019-11-03T11:37:08 < qyx> plc is not the most expensive stuff
2019-11-03T11:37:20 < qyx> say you have 32 boxes
2019-11-03T11:37:23 < Cracki> arduino with enc28j60 ethernet shiet
2019-11-03T11:37:34 < qyx> you need 32 open-closed sensors
2019-11-03T11:37:42 < qyx> inductive, photoelectric or so
2019-11-03T11:37:57 < qyx> not less than 20€ for a single on eprobably
2019-11-03T11:38:15 < qyx> compared to a screw mounted reflective optocoupler for <1€
2019-11-03T11:38:20 < Cracki> :)
2019-11-03T11:39:30 < qyx> meh 28j60
2019-11-03T11:40:30 < Cracki> so... shift register or controller with lots of io?
2019-11-03T11:41:10 < qyx> probably multiple boards with rs485 and lots of io
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2019-11-03T12:02:17 < Cracki> ugh busses remind me of that one of my boss'es customers who kept wanting more peripherals so boss had to throw away board designs every 6-12 months, always throwing it back to being a prototype instead of a small series of a few dozen
2019-11-03T12:02:47 < Cracki> now the board has one header with i2c on it
2019-11-03T12:04:34 < Cracki> they have no "product owner", no requirements analysis, no engineering, nothing, and they won't pay for any of that. it's all modeled as Change Requests
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2019-11-03T13:08:40 < qyx> oh deutschland qualitat https://www.bild.de/bild-plus/news/inland/news-inland/schimmel-in-skandal-wurstfabrik-ex-mitarbeiter-packen-aus-65154236,view=conversionToLogin.bild.html
2019-11-03T13:09:17 < qyx> you are probably right that being in the core of the eu may mean nothing
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2019-11-03T14:24:38 < Steffanx> lol what happened there.
2019-11-03T15:21:09 < englishman> very thorough article
2019-11-03T15:21:41 < Steffanx> Very nice paywall indeed
2019-11-03T15:39:53 < dongs> cool
2019-11-03T15:43:59 < englishman> https://imgur.com/wSDz2J9
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2019-11-03T16:11:29 < aandrew> that cackle from whoever was watching is worth the price of admission
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2019-11-03T17:02:51 < karlp> mawk: did you not find an existing tool to handle the BOTHER shit? I'm sure i've seen some, but haven't gone looking today.
2019-11-03T17:08:44 < mawk> ah I didn't look I guess there are some around (maybe pretty old tho), but it was so simple it was easy to rewrite
2019-11-03T17:08:59 < mawk> plus that increases my project count on gitlab to brag in front of recruiters
2019-11-03T17:11:13 < karlp> you're not the only one: https://github.com/jbkim/Linux-custom-baud-rate
2019-11-03T17:11:54 < karlp> setserial should I believe...
2019-11-03T17:12:14 < karlp> though i've weird memories of it only working on actual 8250/16x50 uarts
2019-11-03T17:13:19 < karlp> alternatively... https://pyserial.readthedocs.io/en/latest/pyserial_api.html will just do it for you :)
2019-11-03T17:13:33 < karlp> https://github.com/pyserial/pyserial/blob/master/serial/serialposix.py#L148
2019-11-03T17:14:47 < mawk> yeah
2019-11-03T17:14:59 < mawk> I don't know why I am the only one to set input serial speed too ?
2019-11-03T17:15:14 < karlp> picocom will properly do BOTHER stuff too...
2019-11-03T17:15:22 < mawk> it's not used in ftdi chips, maybe others use it
2019-11-03T17:15:35 < karlp> https://github.com/npat-efault/picocom/blob/master/termios2.c#L183
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2019-11-03T17:15:53 < karlp> so what was steve using to talk to the port?
2019-11-03T17:16:54 < mawk> some midi software presumably, and trying stty to set speed
2019-11-03T17:18:37 < ac_slater> hey guys, I have an STM32F4 as a SPI master. I dedicated a SPI channel (SPI2) to communicating with a single Slave (MSP430). The Slave requires that when it's reset, the master's clock is held HIGH. 
2019-11-03T17:19:08 < mawk> setting ispeed is useless if you don't set CBAUD << IBSHIFT, if the driver supports input speed you will have a different input speed than output speed, and if it doesn't support it the ispeed field isn't even read
2019-11-03T17:19:20 < karlp> picocom and then ctrl-a,ctrl-x will "exit" and leave the port as it is....
2019-11-03T17:19:28 < ac_slater> would it be smart to do this on the master? i.e., detect a reset and raise the clock high for like 1-2ms while the device attaches. Or should the slave sense the high clock
2019-11-03T17:20:07 < ac_slater> (if you guys are talking serial terminal applications for linux, I recommend `tio` as it's super simple and always does the right thing)
2019-11-03T17:20:23 < qyx> a close miss
2019-11-03T17:20:52 < karlp> ac_slater: same for picocom :)
2019-11-03T17:21:02 < qyx> same for minicom
2019-11-03T17:21:42 < ac_slater> I love minicom's ymodem features and such but the menu/config stuff is bonkers. The defaults aren't 8N1 and that throws alot of people off
2019-11-03T17:22:47 < karlp> yeah, minicom's menuing crap is garage
2019-11-03T17:23:59 < ac_slater> picocom looks aweseom
2019-11-03T17:24:01 < ac_slater> awesome * 
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2019-11-03T17:39:10 < PaulFertser> ac_slater: minicom doesn't default to 8N1? What system is that, I do not think I saw it ever, and I used minicom a lot.
2019-11-03T17:39:53 < ac_slater> PaulFertser: hmm is it that it assume hardware flow control?
2019-11-03T17:40:08 < ac_slater> I know by default it's not really set up for things like USB-TTL devices
2019-11-03T17:40:14 < PaulFertser> I used minicom's ymodem today, for whatever reason uboot in my old router doesn't hear ethernet replies so tftp is not working.
2019-11-03T17:40:33 < PaulFertser> ac_slater: yes, hw flow control by default, indeed, needs to be disabled, that I do not argue about.
2019-11-03T17:41:19 < PaulFertser> ac_slater: but back in the days I first started using minicom with a dial-up modem connected via proper RS-232 with all the signals, so the defaults were perfectly adequate ;)
2019-11-03T17:42:42 < PaulFertser> btw (talking about TTL) when was the last time you used a BJT-based _digital logic_ IC?
2019-11-03T17:47:00 < qyx> now, uln2003a
2019-11-03T17:51:29 < PaulFertser> Heh, it's not exactly logic, rather a driver :)
2019-11-03T17:52:11 < qyx> it is a bjt with ttl compatible input!
2019-11-03T17:52:29 < PaulFertser> Well, yes :)
2019-11-03T18:21:16 < qyx> why is kicad ERC not reporting an unconnected net with a global label?
2019-11-03T18:21:41 < qyx> oh, because it is connected!
2019-11-03T18:22:08 < qyx> actually it is conflicting with some other net with the same name
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2019-11-03T19:25:43 < kakipro> what direction signal "ETH_MII_PPS_OUT" would be between MAC and PHY or does MAC even have anything to do with it?
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2019-11-03T19:27:07 < jpa-> it's output from STM32 atleast
2019-11-03T19:27:56 < kakipro> PHY doesn't have a pin for it and I didn't see anything about it in gpio functions of that PHY
2019-11-03T19:28:09 < ac_slater> guys, I have a nucleo dev board for both an STM32F4 and STM32F7. I disable the USB OTG stack entirely but using the embedded stlink on the nucleo, the boards still "mount" as a usb-fs gadget
2019-11-03T19:28:16 < ac_slater> how can I stop them from doing that?
2019-11-03T19:29:01 < kakipro> phy has in feature list: "Start of frame detect for IEEE 1588 time stamp"
2019-11-03T19:29:11 < jpa-> ac_slater: you mean the usb storage drive in stlink?
2019-11-03T19:29:15 < Ultrasauce> kakipro: its for synchronous ethernet i bet
2019-11-03T19:29:22 < jpa-> ac_slater: you can disable it by settings quirks to usb_storage module in linux
2019-11-03T19:29:27 < Ultrasauce> which clearly your phy doesnt do
2019-11-03T19:29:40 < ac_slater> jpa-: right but I mean, can I disable it globally on the device?
2019-11-03T19:29:40 < kakipro> synchronous ethernets
2019-11-03T19:29:54 < ac_slater> jpa-: hmm so it's an stlink thing
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2019-11-03T19:30:16 < jpa-> i think the PPS signal is related to https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Precision_Time_Protocol
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2019-11-03T19:31:56 < kakipro> but how does my PHY have start of frame time stamp without that pps thing?
2019-11-03T19:32:24 < jpa-> that sounds like different direction anyway
2019-11-03T19:32:25 < decimad> it injects the timestamp into the frame as it goes through or stores it inside an internal register
2019-11-03T19:33:08 < kakipro> http://www.ti.com/product/DP83822H what do you think of it?
2019-11-03T19:33:08 < ac_slater> jpa-: I googled a bit and seems like I can upgrade the STLINK firmware to exclude it
2019-11-03T19:33:11 < ac_slater> thanks
2019-11-03T19:33:38 < jpa-> https://github.com/OLIMEX/STM32F4/blob/master/HARDWARE/STM32-E407/STM32-E407_Rev_F.pdf   if you look at e.g. this schematic, they don't use the PPS output either
2019-11-03T19:33:43 < kakipro> I like the part where it consumes only possibly as low as 120mW at idle 100FullDuplex
2019-11-03T19:34:19 < kakipro> and has EEE and then goes down to maybe dozens of milliwatts at idle
2019-11-03T19:34:36 < ac_slater> anyone here have an references for embeddeding STM32's on PCBs? I'm used to working with AVR32 and simple chips which usually provide reference PCB layouts. Can't seem to find anything like that in st's site
2019-11-03T19:34:43 < kakipro> videogayms>
2019-11-03T19:36:09 < jpa-> ac_slater: you can look at the various dev boards, they have schematics etc. available
2019-11-03T19:36:40 < ac_slater> jpa-: yea good point. The nucleo is open. Wasn't sure if ST put out something specific
2019-11-03T19:36:41 < jpa-> ac_slater: but for layout, it is just normal high-speed digital stuff, it will depend a lot on what kind of signals you are connecting and how many layers your pcb will have
2019-11-03T19:36:49 < ac_slater> right
2019-11-03T19:37:07 < ac_slater> I've never built around ARM before and the FMC and other things are scaring me
2019-11-03T19:37:07 < decimad> the pps signal is a time reference or debug signal provided by the internal "adjustable" clock (counter with wrapping overflow) of the PTP-enabled MAC. Either you close the loop with the builtin mac clock or with the phy... the phy is "closer" and actually experiences the "first bit" of transmission, otoh the loop is slower by the MDIO latency deadtime
2019-11-03T19:37:09 < ac_slater> thanks though
2019-11-03T19:38:06 < kakipro> otoh?
2019-11-03T19:38:22 < decimad> on the other hand
2019-11-03T19:38:38 < decimad> that phy can actually provide a clean clock to the MCU once you calibrated it :)
2019-11-03T19:38:58 < decimad> then your MCU runs "in synch" with the clock
2019-11-03T19:39:00 < jpa-> ac_slater: so, are you going to use FMC?
2019-11-03T19:39:01 < kakipro> mcu clocked by ethernets
2019-11-03T19:39:43 < kakipro> decimad: which phy?
2019-11-03T19:39:53 < decimad> that texas instruments one
2019-11-03T19:40:20 < decimad> but you need to provide the PTP software stack and control loop
2019-11-03T19:42:16 < kakipro> it can do start of frame indication to one of it's GPIOs
2019-11-03T19:42:24 < kakipro> is that any use?
2019-11-03T19:42:31 < kakipro> *of any use
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2019-11-03T19:43:09 < jpa-> kakipro: so are you going to use PTP?
2019-11-03T19:43:24 < kakipro> probs not
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2019-11-03T19:46:38 < kakipro> but I rather design for it
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2019-11-03T19:48:01 < kakipro> https://i.imgur.com/W2nRogn.png
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2019-11-03T19:49:56 < decimad> I could only see its use for very low timing requirements (wrt. PTP abilities) if that signal is processed by software...
2019-11-03T19:50:09 < decimad> then you could already use NTP ;)
2019-11-03T19:50:35 < karlp> ac_slater: st provides a "getting started with stm32xxxx hardweare development" app note too that you might like.
2019-11-03T19:58:44 < BrainDamage> can make use of ethernet frame timestamping
2019-11-03T19:58:55 < BrainDamage> to improve the accuracy of clock distribution
2019-11-03T19:59:00 < BrainDamage> ntp can*
2019-11-03T19:59:19 < BrainDamage> it's particularly useful when ntp is set in broadcast mode
2019-11-03T19:59:41 < BrainDamage> which broadcast packets instead of p2p connection
2019-11-03T20:00:50 < BrainDamage> the normal use case is a stratum 1 server in lan which broadcasts time sync and all clients as passive receivers
2019-11-03T20:01:16 < BrainDamage> this way the traffic scheduling can be extremely deterministic too
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2019-11-03T20:36:07 < kakipro> what is your favourite magnetics?
2019-11-03T20:36:40 < BrainDamage> NdFeB
2019-11-03T20:37:38 < kakipro> ethernet magnetics
2019-11-03T20:43:02 < jpa-> the cheapest is the best
2019-11-03T20:43:19 < jpa-> cheapest that is built in to the connector, of course
2019-11-03T20:43:37 < kakipro> any part id to throw around?
2019-11-03T20:44:08 < kakipro> or sharing common footprint of X
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2019-11-03T20:50:16 < kakipro> https://github.com/karlp/zypsnips/blob/master/ethernet-phys-jacks.txt
2019-11-03T21:03:04 < rue_mohr> you can get the magnetics in the jacks eh?
2019-11-03T21:03:55 < karlp> of course.
2019-11-03T21:03:58 < karlp> hence the term, "magjack"
2019-11-03T21:04:08 < rue_mohr> HR911105A
2019-11-03T21:04:17 < kakipro> kicad has footprints
2019-11-03T21:04:19 < karlp> you've got to pretty doing things _just right_ for it to be cheaper to have discrete magnetics
2019-11-03T21:04:22 < kakipro> but no library symbols
2019-11-03T21:04:34 < karlp> yeah, I've been arguining with them about that
2019-11-03T21:04:53 < karlp> they seem to think that "of course everyone wants to make their own symols all the time, always"
2019-11-03T21:05:47 < rue_mohr> should be a public drop for adding stuff like thingiverse
2019-11-03T21:06:13 < jpa-> because that certainly leads to better quality?
2019-11-03T21:06:13 < rue_mohr> w/ leave feedback for botched submissions
2019-11-03T21:06:24 < jpa-> you can pull-request on github
2019-11-03T21:06:25 < zyp> sounds faster to make symbols yourself than wade through a pile of crowdsourced shit
2019-11-03T21:06:34 < rue_mohr> nobody ever does pulls
2019-11-03T21:06:38 < jpa-> rue_mohr: uh?
2019-11-03T21:06:42 < jpa-> snapeda seems halfway decent
2019-11-03T21:06:44 < rue_mohr> pulls just pile up against projects
2019-11-03T21:07:37 < jpa-> https://github.com/KiCad/kicad-symbols/pulls  "306 Open 1646 Closed"   seems most get merged
2019-11-03T21:08:21 < rue_mohr> for a while sure
2019-11-03T21:08:30 < rue_mohr> then the person who is heading the project sinks
2019-11-03T21:08:47 < jpa-> .. you think kicad is headed by a single person?
2019-11-03T21:08:49 < rue_mohr> and nobody is being paid to address pulls so they just stack up and everything dies
2019-11-03T21:08:58 < jpa-> cern probably pays some
2019-11-03T21:09:04 < rue_mohr> I'm talking projects in general
2019-11-03T21:09:16 < rue_mohr> I was SO excited back in ~95 about open source software
2019-11-03T21:09:37 < jpa-> it's not true about projects in general either, but of course true for some projects
2019-11-03T21:09:39 < rue_mohr> and perfectly bug free applications that would fork with specific feature sets
2019-11-03T21:10:02 < rue_mohr> but no, projects die, and get replaced by inferior projects that take years to become descent and then die
2019-11-03T21:10:06 < rue_mohr> to the cycle
2019-11-03T21:10:22 < rue_mohr> take xmms
2019-11-03T21:10:58 < rue_mohr> there are lots of examples, but it makes me sad, so ~
2019-11-03T21:11:05 < zyp> hmm, sometimes the shipping rates on aliexpress are ridiculous
2019-11-03T21:11:14 < rue_mohr> yes
2019-11-03T21:11:32 < rue_mohr> is it larger than a wired mouse?
2019-11-03T21:11:38 < zyp> I'm looking at a $0.71 keystone insert, costs $4.03 to ship, maybe fair enough
2019-11-03T21:11:56 < kakipro> do I connect ethernet shield to pcb GND?
2019-11-03T21:11:56 < zyp> if I want 15, shipping is $23.39
2019-11-03T21:11:57 < rue_mohr> well, if your buying in singles yea
2019-11-03T21:12:08 < zyp> but I'm not
2019-11-03T21:12:10 < jpa-> rue_mohr: so, what about xmms makes you sad?
2019-11-03T21:12:12 < rue_mohr> find a listing for 10 or 20 or 50
2019-11-03T21:12:27 < zyp> rue_mohr, doesn't seem to exist
2019-11-03T21:12:34 < rue_mohr> jpa-, that it died like it did, xmms2 is not xmms
2019-11-03T21:12:46 < rue_mohr> hmm "abandonware" ?
2019-11-03T21:12:51 < zyp> if you wanna prove me wrong, go ahead, I want keystone inserts for LC connectors
2019-11-03T21:13:24 < rue_mohr> oo, double female couplers, right?
2019-11-03T21:13:24 < zyp> https://www.aliexpress.com/item/32607760095.html <- like these
2019-11-03T21:13:39 < zyp> preferably some in white and some in black
2019-11-03T21:13:51 < zyp> and I also don't need the LC coupler itself, just the keystone plastic
2019-11-03T21:15:10 < Steffanx> Whats the shipping to norway zyp?
2019-11-03T21:15:19 < Steffanx> > 4,31 euro bucks?
2019-11-03T21:15:45 < zyp> $4.01 @1
2019-11-03T21:15:54 < zyp> $4.03*
2019-11-03T21:16:01 < Steffanx> ah thats even less
2019-11-03T21:16:25 < zyp> how much to .nl?
2019-11-03T21:16:40 < Steffanx> 4.31 euro bucks.
2019-11-03T21:16:49 < zyp> what about larger qty?
2019-11-03T21:16:59 < kakipro> passive poe to these integrated jacks would be destructive I think
2019-11-03T21:17:00 < rue_mohr> I thought they had another name other than keystone they used
2019-11-03T21:17:15 < Steffanx> seems like it goes to 1$/part after a while
2019-11-03T21:17:19 < kakipro> it's only 150ohms
2019-11-03T21:17:29 < kakipro> 2x75ohms loadd
2019-11-03T21:17:53 < kakipro> afaik. passive poe implementations go all way to 24volts
2019-11-03T21:18:13 < zyp> kakipro, you get poe-capable magjacks if that's what you want
2019-11-03T21:18:19 < kakipro> that is 160mA
2019-11-03T21:18:23 < jpa-> rue_mohr: yeah, open source doesn't mean that people magically maintain stuff for ever, but you can always do so yourself
2019-11-03T21:18:28 < kakipro> I don't
2019-11-03T21:18:34 < kakipro> I just think
2019-11-03T21:18:40 < zyp> well, duh
2019-11-03T21:18:45 < zyp> that's why passive poe is shit
2019-11-03T21:19:43 < zyp> proper poe only feeds power to devices that ask for it, to avoid burning devices that's not built for poe
2019-11-03T21:20:01 < zyp> passive poe is «whatever, #yolo»
2019-11-03T21:20:28 < jpa-> rue_mohr: however it's silly to extend that viewpoint to projects that are currently in active development
2019-11-03T21:20:54 < jpa-> rue_mohr: *all* current software is short-lived and temporary, as is all current technology in general
2019-11-03T21:21:02 < rue_mohr> I have watch since '95 as projects died and were replaced
2019-11-03T21:21:35 < rue_mohr> so many good projects that were replaced with junk that had to be developed all over again
2019-11-03T21:21:36 < jpa-> and you miss the 90's linux desktop so much that it's made you bitter?
2019-11-03T21:21:42 < rue_mohr> hah
2019-11-03T21:21:52 < rue_mohr> just sad
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2019-11-03T21:22:20 < zyp> so what are you doing to fix the problem?
2019-11-03T21:22:22 < rue_mohr> zyp, I cant cough up magic words for those modules
2019-11-03T21:22:52 < rue_mohr> zyp, only using my own libraries for my projects :) (compound the issue)
2019-11-03T21:23:05 < rue_mohr> write all my own software :)
2019-11-03T21:23:38 < rue_mohr> zyp, china REALLY loves the term FTTH and I'm surprised it doesn't cause anything relivent to come up
2019-11-03T21:23:57 < zyp> I don't think it's very relevant to FTTH either
2019-11-03T21:24:25 < rue_mohr> yes, but they love to glue on catchwords
2019-11-03T21:24:27 < zyp> IME the term FTTH mostly seems related to stuff for GPON drops
2019-11-03T21:24:52 < BrainDamage> FTTH here's mostly associated as fiber-to-the-home GPON 
2019-11-03T21:25:05 < zyp> yeah
2019-11-03T21:25:58 < jpa-> i don't know what i should do about "the problem"; somehow ~2 billion installed base of nanopb starts to be a bit much compared to practically no money coming in and dwindling interest - last month i pushed an update that required recompiling files and suddenly bug tracker is full of these "this some weird build system fails now" issues
2019-11-03T21:26:02 < zyp> speaking of, my fiber provider doesn't do GPON
2019-11-03T21:26:44 < BrainDamage> jpa-: start soleciting donations at least?
2019-11-03T21:26:49 < BrainDamage> or maybe paid support
2019-11-03T21:27:04 < jpa-> BrainDamage: done both
2019-11-03T21:27:13 < BrainDamage> :/
2019-11-03T21:27:14 < jpa-> got ~200 EUR over a few years
2019-11-03T21:27:20 < Steffanx> oof
2019-11-03T21:28:13 < jpa-> it's a nice thing to have on cv though
2019-11-03T21:28:52 < zyp> I monitize software by selling hardware running it :p
2019-11-03T21:30:29 < zyp> probably made like 20-30k EUR on laks
2019-11-03T21:30:35 < Steffanx> Time to start selling that solar boat you planned on doing, jpa- :D
2019-11-03T21:30:42 < jpa-> :D
2019-11-03T21:30:56 < jpa-> zyp: so many arcins?
2019-11-03T21:31:26 < Steffanx> How much time have you spend on customer support et all, zyp?
2019-11-03T21:31:30 < zyp> I'm pretty sure I've sold a four-digit number of arcins now, yes
2019-11-03T21:31:40 < zyp> and also a three-digit number of nfc readers
2019-11-03T21:31:58 < jpa-> for some reason all my own product ideas are doomed to never finish
2019-11-03T21:32:41 < zyp> Steffanx, dunno, I don't count
2019-11-03T21:33:51 < Steffanx> hm
2019-11-03T21:35:00 < zyp> I think most of the time goes to flashing, testing, packing and shipping boards, not really that much support
2019-11-03T21:35:24 < zyp> and I've optimized that process pretty well
2019-11-03T21:35:56 < Steffanx> such tagconnect
2019-11-03T21:37:38 < zyp> it'd be faster to have a jig that'd do both flash and test in the same setup, but the engineering required would take too long time to pay off to be worth it
2019-11-03T21:38:03 < zyp> instead of the current two-step process with tag-connect and a test board that I use
2019-11-03T21:50:08 < qyx> 20:31 < jpa-> for some reason all my own product ideas are doomed to never finish
2019-11-03T21:50:12 < qyx> similar here
2019-11-03T21:50:54 < qyx> I should start making some <buzzwordy> <buzzword> <buzzword> things
2019-11-03T21:51:12 < qyx> like LoRa connected WC visit counter
2019-11-03T21:51:35 < Steffanx> isnt lora old?
2019-11-03T21:51:59 < qyx> do you have a better idea?
2019-11-03T21:52:26 < Steffanx> nope
2019-11-03T21:52:32 < qyx> few years ago it was said we will live in a world of data and data acquisition
2019-11-03T21:52:42 < qyx> has it come yet?
2019-11-03T21:52:44 < BrainDamage> deep learning your toilet habits and storing them publicly in a blockchain, sent over lora
2019-11-03T21:52:52 < Steffanx> but that.. an hid arcade input doesnt sound like "that awesome idea"  either, yet it sells.
2019-11-03T21:52:59 < Steffanx> *not yet.
2019-11-03T21:53:10 < Steffanx> not sure why i wrote " but that" . Doesnt even look like it. lol.
2019-11-03T21:53:16 < BrainDamage> qyx: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sidewalk_Toronto?wprov=srpw1_0
2019-11-03T21:54:16 < BrainDamage> companies are now trying to directly buy portions of city to do that
2019-11-03T21:56:51 < BrainDamage> not to mention: https://boingboing.net/2019/10/30/citizen-scores-eh.html
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2019-11-03T22:11:04 < kakipro> do you use bootstrapping signals for PHY?
2019-11-03T22:11:15 < kakipro> phy address maybe?
2019-11-03T22:14:46 < aandrew> there are a thousand options yes
2019-11-03T22:14:59 < aandrew> it all depends on the phy; it seems MANY people do it so they don't have to hook up MII
2019-11-03T22:15:13 < aandrew> but I happen to like writing to PHY regs so I do the bare minimum strapping 
2019-11-03T22:15:33 < kakipro> I see only thing you actually need to bootstrap is mac configuration
2019-11-03T22:15:37 < kakipro> and reference clock
2019-11-03T22:15:45 < aandrew> depends; if you do not want to use MII then you also bootstrap the rest
2019-11-03T22:15:49 < aandrew> oterwise yes
2019-11-03T22:15:49 < PaulFertser> s/MII/MDIO/
2019-11-03T22:16:10 < aandrew> yes, I keep saying MII but mean SMI (MDC/MDIO)
2019-11-03T22:16:12 < aandrew> thanks PaulFertser 
2019-11-03T22:17:05 < kakipro> without expected reference clock the phy wont work
2019-11-03T22:17:15 < kakipro> clock needs to be present when it's booted
2019-11-03T22:17:45 < PaulFertser> :) you also get proper link status with autoneg speed/mode so unless you're always connected to the other side it's likely worth to implement SMI.
2019-11-03T22:17:59 < aandrew> yep I'm a fan of SMI
2019-11-03T22:18:40 < PaulFertser> Linux calls it "mdio-bus", not sure if that's technically wrong or they had reasons.
2019-11-03T22:22:54 < kakipro> why would you want to disable advertising of EEE capability?
2019-11-03T22:22:57 < zyp> I like to set sane straps on the PHY, but still hook up MDIO
2019-11-03T22:23:25 < zyp> even with the PHY configured, MDIO is useful to monitor link state
2019-11-03T22:25:26 < kakipro> so much components
2019-11-03T22:25:45 < zyp> did you pick a shit PHY?
2019-11-03T22:27:34 < kakipro> doubt
2019-11-03T22:27:37 < kakipro> http://www.ti.com/product/DP83822H
2019-11-03T22:27:40 < kakipro> should be fine
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2019-11-03T22:30:07 < zyp> huh, 10/100-PHY with RGMII
2019-11-03T22:30:09 < zyp> that's cute
2019-11-03T22:32:35 < zyp> only seems useful if you have a MAC that doesn't do RMII, otherwise RMII requires less pins
2019-11-03T22:33:07 < englishman> lol even more expensive than AR8035
2019-11-03T22:33:42 < Steffanx> wut kakipro ^ 
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2019-11-03T22:35:44 < zyp> hmm, requires external termination resistors
2019-11-03T22:36:00 < kakipro> I should have used AR8035?
2019-11-03T22:36:10 < kakipro> it has propiertary smartEEE
2019-11-03T22:36:11 < scrts2> I always used micrel stuff
2019-11-03T22:36:19 < zyp> me too
2019-11-03T22:36:24 < zyp> ksz8081rna
2019-11-03T22:36:27 < zyp> good shit
2019-11-03T22:36:39 < Steffanx> isnt that microchip nowadays?
2019-11-03T22:36:53 < zyp> has on chip termination, so you just wire the tx/rx lines straight to the magjack
2019-11-03T22:36:56 < zyp> yeah
2019-11-03T22:36:58 < zyp> but still
2019-11-03T22:37:25 < englishman> funny that none of the microchip stuff works at 1.2v
2019-11-03T22:37:25 < zyp> I think it was designed before microchip bought micrel, so they didn't have a chance to fuck it up
2019-11-03T22:37:45 < Steffanx> i bet they touched the datasheet
2019-11-03T22:39:55 < kakipro> so do you know cheaper PHY with EEE and integrated termination?
2019-11-03T22:41:04 < kakipro> should also support lower operating voltages
2019-11-03T22:41:37 < kakipro> in case of 83822: 1.8v single supply is possible
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2019-11-03T22:46:15 < kakipro> aand I don't have RGMII
2019-11-03T22:46:25 < kakipro> so AR8035 is not an option
2019-11-03T22:46:32 < zyp> is EEE useful?
2019-11-03T22:47:14 < kakipro> it cuts power consumption in link idle condition by 90% or so
2019-11-03T22:51:09 < zyp> on the other hand, dp83822 uses a bunch more power when active compared to ksz8081
2019-11-03T22:56:55 < kakipro> it's like.. how much activity does stm32 application have
2019-11-03T23:03:06 < zyp> it'd receive all the broadcast activity on the network, wouldn't it?
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2019-11-03T23:07:57 < kakipro> receiver is operating
2019-11-03T23:08:22 < kakipro> transmitter is shut down until there is something to transmit
2019-11-03T23:24:37 < scrts2> btw, did anyone interface wifi module to stm32?
2019-11-03T23:24:42 < scrts2> over SDIO
2019-11-03T23:25:13 < scrts2> wifi these days is faster than 10/100mbps wire
2019-11-03T23:28:43 < Ecco> Heya
2019-11-03T23:28:44 < Ecco> https://developer.arm.com/tools-and-software/open-source-software/developer-tools/gnu-toolchain/gnu-rm/downloads#
2019-11-03T23:28:48 < Ecco> -> All links are broken
2019-11-03T23:28:55 < Ecco> Do you know who I should get in touch with?
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2019-11-03T23:34:14 < qyx> scrts2: you mean 802.11n single chain, wjhich is about 40m in reality?
2019-11-03T23:34:32 < scrts2> I saw some modules having 812.11ac
2019-11-03T23:34:37 < scrts2> from cypress afaik
2019-11-03T23:34:50 < scrts2> *802.11ac
2019-11-03T23:48:56 -!- Netsplit *.net <-> *.split quits: forrestv, ohama, Jan-, zoobab, onio, turnip420, jadew, Laurenceb, mawk, Cracki,  (+135 more, use /NETSPLIT to show all of them)
2019-11-03T23:55:44 -!- Netsplit over, joins: [7], varesa, learningc, hackkitten, scrts2, mrec, specing, aandrew, forrestv, fenugrec (+135 more)
2019-11-03T23:55:44 < rue_mohr> lots of software layers, and I'm trying to not fully educate on all of them
2019-11-03T23:55:44 < rue_mohr> fileserverPing = ping("192.168.8.240");
2019-11-03T23:55:44 < rue_mohr> get back in ms, or even a yes/no
2019-11-03T23:55:44 < rue_mohr> success/flail
--- Day changed Mon Nov 04 2019
2019-11-04T00:06:12 < Laurenceb_> 8kun is hosted on a discovery board?
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2019-11-04T00:35:06 < kakipro> rue_mohr: you may need to
2019-11-04T00:38:16 < kakipro> learn a thing or two
2019-11-04T00:38:31 < kakipro> if you want single line stuff you use computer
2019-11-04T00:38:55 < kakipro> everything is done already you just create app
2019-11-04T00:49:03 < qyx> also stm32 w/an ENC28J60
2019-11-04T00:49:30 < qyx> not very common as stm32s have internal MAC
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2019-11-04T01:51:06 < catphish> turns out i'm not going crazy, having an idle CPU really does screw usb performance sometimes https://community.cypress.com/thread/45839?start=0&tstart=0
2019-11-04T01:51:37 < Thorn> >Just note that when the VDDUSB is connected to a separated power supply, it is independent from VDD or VDDA, but it must be the last supply to be provided and the first to be removed.
2019-11-04T01:51:39 < buZz> qyx: ENC28J60 :O
2019-11-04T01:51:45 < buZz> qyx: go wash your mouth
2019-11-04T01:52:01 < Thorn> so what to do if user decides to pull out the coin cell while the device is connected to USB
2019-11-04T01:52:50 < Thorn> buZz: better tell that to rue_mohr 
2019-11-04T01:53:04 < mawk> kill usb power supply when coin cell is gone
2019-11-04T01:53:10 < mawk> using power OR-ing device with enable pin
2019-11-04T01:53:43 < rue_mohr> but like hd44780 libraries, surely not everyone in the world needs to write one!!!!
2019-11-04T01:53:47 < mawk> or just tie VDD to VDDUSB when USB is powered, it's maybe a more sound approach
2019-11-04T01:53:56 < mawk> still with OR-ing stuff
2019-11-04T01:54:04 < buZz> rue_mohr: ENC28J60 is the worst possible network card ever
2019-11-04T01:54:13 < buZz> rue_mohr: make sure to not depend on it -at all-
2019-11-04T01:55:10 < rue_mohr> ok, see this is an opinion, and this is good, how about W5500 then?
2019-11-04T01:55:21 < buZz> a bit better
2019-11-04T01:55:33 < buZz> but still, why not use the native MAC of stm32?
2019-11-04T01:55:58 < rue_mohr> stm32F103
2019-11-04T01:55:59 < Thorn> mawk: what is the point of Vddusb then
2019-11-04T01:56:15 < mawk> I didn't know it was a power supply Thorn ,  you're talking about stm32 right ?
2019-11-04T01:56:17 < zyp> Thorn, to annoy you
2019-11-04T01:56:23 < mawk> VDDUSB is just there to sense USB presence, iirc
2019-11-04T01:56:23 < rue_mohr> and the $3 network modules already ahve all the hardware
2019-11-04T01:56:31 < zyp> mawk, no, it's not
2019-11-04T01:56:34 < Thorn> mawk: that's Vbus
2019-11-04T01:56:37 < mawk> ah right
2019-11-04T01:56:47 < mawk> don't know what VDDUSB is, then
2019-11-04T01:56:52 < buZz> just upgrade to a 105
2019-11-04T01:57:14 < buZz> rue_mohr: just because they are 3 usd , doesnt mean it wont cost you 10000 usd of time to learn how to use them reliably
2019-11-04T01:57:19 < Thorn> (which has the same requirement, you must not apply Vbus to the Vbus pin while the stm32 is unpowered)
2019-11-04T01:57:26 < zyp> my impression is that the point of VDDUSB is to be able to provide 3.3V to the usb transceiver when the chip is otherwise running at a lower voltage
2019-11-04T01:57:31 < buZz> w5500 is slightly better then enc28. yeah
2019-11-04T01:57:32 < rue_mohr> I just want to get a dhcp address and ping an IP
2019-11-04T01:57:34 < zyp> e.g. 1.8V
2019-11-04T01:57:46 < zyp> when running everything at 3.3V anyway, just tie it all together
2019-11-04T01:57:57 < mawk> ah I see
2019-11-04T01:58:19 < Thorn> what if I'm running from a primary Li cell
2019-11-04T01:58:35 < Thorn> and the user decides to remove it while the usb cable is connected
2019-11-04T01:58:36 < mawk> so when is your device supposed to be plugged in ?
2019-11-04T01:58:41 < mawk> pretty rarely ?
2019-11-04T01:58:50 < Thorn> I guess I'll have to OR the power
2019-11-04T01:58:58 < mawk> if yes then you can just tie VDDUSB to your coin cell
2019-11-04T01:59:03 < zyp> Thorn, sell them a replacement device
2019-11-04T01:59:05 < Thorn> mawk: only when configuring/provosioning it
2019-11-04T01:59:08 < mawk> and why would them remove a primary cell ?
2019-11-04T01:59:14 < rue_mohr> ok, so lets back up a min. what makes 28j80 horrid?
2019-11-04T01:59:14 < mawk> tell them that voids the warranty
2019-11-04T01:59:59 < mawk> well if it's not plugged in most of the time you run VDDUSB off the coin cell maybe, then I guess it's safe ?
2019-11-04T02:00:33 < Thorn> rue_mohr: the ardweeno smell. you mention it at a job interview and the interviewer yawns and looks away
2019-11-04T02:01:01 < zyp> Thorn, that's not really a good argument
2019-11-04T02:01:18 < Thorn> mawk: it needs 3V3 iirc
2019-11-04T02:01:37 < Thorn> i.e. can't tie it directly to a coin cell, would need a boost 
2019-11-04T02:02:01 < zyp> just OR it, that way it can run from usb without the coin cell too
2019-11-04T02:02:50 < Thorn> ok are there OR chips without voltage drop (available from LCSC)
2019-11-04T02:02:57 < mawk> but he said usb is almost never connected, that's many components just for that no ?
2019-11-04T02:03:08 < mawk> there are or chips with like 50mV drop
2019-11-04T02:03:22 < zyp> I'd just use that BAT whatever double schottkey
2019-11-04T02:03:23 < mawk> at low currents ofc
2019-11-04T02:03:35 < Thorn> bat54c?
2019-11-04T02:03:45 < zyp> sounds right
2019-11-04T02:03:50 < Thorn> I have an up to 100mA radio chip
2019-11-04T02:04:04 < Thorn> wouldn't want to drop a significant voltage on the diode
2019-11-04T02:04:10 < zyp> is this stm32wb?
2019-11-04T02:04:20 < mawk> BAT54C makes almost 1V of drop at 100mA
2019-11-04T02:04:20 < Thorn> l0 + si4463
2019-11-04T02:04:37 < zyp> well, you don't need to power the radio off the OR diode
2019-11-04T02:04:56 < Thorn> maybe not
2019-11-04T02:05:35 < zyp> again, depending on what your goal is
2019-11-04T02:05:36 < mawk> can you use like a LDO with enable pin to power VDDUSB ?
2019-11-04T02:05:42 < mawk> and put the coincell to it
2019-11-04T02:06:04 < zyp> that sounds reasonable
2019-11-04T02:06:13 < zyp> since you're gonna need a LDO anyway
2019-11-04T02:08:07 < rue_mohr> Thorn, if I used the word arduino in an interview around here, they would be instantly lost
2019-11-04T02:08:30 < rue_mohr> I do all my stuff for fun
2019-11-04T02:08:59 < rue_mohr> and I want a box that tell me how my network is doing with a few leds
2019-11-04T02:09:29 < rue_mohr> seems an F103 and a wired module should fit nicely into something
2019-11-04T02:10:16 < mawk> ah I found that ideal diode Thorn https://www.maximintegrated.com/en/products/analog/amplifiers/MAX40200.html
2019-11-04T02:10:30 < mawk> they say 40mV at 0.5A
2019-11-04T02:11:08 < mawk> why do you want to do that with cortex M rue_mohr ? for the challenge ?
2019-11-04T02:11:14 < mawk> sounds like a perfect job for a raspberry pi or something
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2019-11-04T02:11:38 < bitmask> hmm, altium deleted my schematic when I ran out of power, luckily it keeps a history
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2019-11-04T02:12:50 < Thorn> I didn't get the part about the LDO. do you want me to put the LDO after the coin cell? fresh coin cell voltage is slightly below 3V according to my googling and the Vddusb needs 3.0...3.6V when usb is in use
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2019-11-04T02:13:07 < Thorn> I will need an LDO to power Vddusb from Vbus of course
2019-11-04T02:13:12 < zyp> yes
2019-11-04T02:13:21 < zyp> and you turn on that LDO only when the coin cell is present
2019-11-04T02:13:24 < mawk> no Thorn I meant get a LDO with enable pin
2019-11-04T02:13:29 < mawk> and tie the enable pin to the coin cell
2019-11-04T02:14:20 < Thorn> oh ok that could work if the ldo doesn't backfeed
2019-11-04T02:14:43 < mawk> yeah
2019-11-04T02:14:50 < Thorn> but the user may be surprised as to why the device doesn't work while plugged into usb
2019-11-04T02:15:36 < mawk> yeah that's a little issue
2019-11-04T02:50:23 < kakipro> https://drive.google.com/file/d/1x1CQDTTpDPjM8aBpCXAMq6aj3yVBUQDC/view?usp=sharing here is my mess atm
2019-11-04T02:52:21 < zyp> why the fuck are you doing MII?
2019-11-04T02:52:41 < kakipro> why not
2019-11-04T02:53:29 < kakipro> how many pins difference that is?
2019-11-04T02:54:49 < zyp> half-ish
2019-11-04T02:55:11 < zyp> I count 15 in your schematic, RMII is 7
2019-11-04T02:55:29 < zyp> three for tx, three for rx and ref_clk
2019-11-04T02:56:35 < kakipro> it doesn't need CRS or DV?
2019-11-04T02:56:56 < bitmask> is there anyway to auto increment components in altium?
2019-11-04T02:56:57 < zyp> CRS_DV is one of the three RX signals, the other two are D0 and D1
2019-11-04T02:57:20 < zyp> TX also has D0 and D1 plus TX_EN
2019-11-04T02:57:32 < zyp> and REF_CLK is shared
2019-11-04T02:59:15 < zyp> https://bin.jvnv.net/file/Q8moB.png <- here's an old screenshot from one of my designs with the ksz phy, RMII and ethernet signals are highlightet
2019-11-04T02:59:51 < zyp> REF_CLK is the trace crossing the highlighted blue traces
2019-11-04T03:00:55 < zyp> https://bin.jvnv.net/file/ScDxl.png <- here's the same circuit in a different design
2019-11-04T03:02:17 < kakipro> should I be scared of elasticity buffer?
2019-11-04T03:02:24 < zyp> no?
2019-11-04T03:07:13 < kakipro> optional signals: RX_CLK, RX_DV, RX_ER
2019-11-04T03:07:45 < kakipro> there is slave and master configurations
2019-11-04T03:09:28 < kakipro> I believe I want slave configuration?
2019-11-04T03:09:41 < zyp> of what?
2019-11-04T03:09:55 < kakipro> phy RMII configuration
2019-11-04T03:10:16 < zyp> maybe
2019-11-04T03:10:39 < kakipro> it includes same 50mhz clock for mac and phy
2019-11-04T03:11:33 < kakipro> in master mode "50-MHz Reference Clock" is signaled from phy to mac
2019-11-04T03:19:53 < dongs> < bitmask> is there anyway to auto increment components in altium?
2019-11-04T03:19:54 < dongs> ???
2019-11-04T03:19:56 < dongs> increment what
2019-11-04T03:20:16 < dongs> drop them on schematic with default refdes as R? IC? C? etc
2019-11-04T03:20:21 < dongs> then T-A-U to annotate
2019-11-04T03:20:33 < bitmask> designator
2019-11-04T03:20:36 < bitmask> TAU?
2019-11-04T03:20:36 < Thorn> https://www.aliexpress.com/item/33013412402.html 30mAh wat
2019-11-04T03:21:08 < Thorn> isn't cr2032 supposed to be 200+
2019-11-04T03:21:10 < dongs> bitmask: keys sequence..
2019-11-04T03:21:12 < bitmask> are those shortcuts
2019-11-04T03:21:13 < bitmask> oh
2019-11-04T03:21:14 < bitmask> ok
2019-11-04T03:21:15 < bitmask> thanks
2019-11-04T03:26:06 < dongs> qyx: what did you end up doing for your 32 relays
2019-11-04T03:27:49 < Laurenceb_> reee when is Ryzen 9 3950X launching
2019-11-04T03:28:09 < dongs> who cares
2019-11-04T03:28:11 < dongs> AMD is dead
2019-11-04T03:28:22 < Laurenceb_> kek
2019-11-04T03:28:40 < Laurenceb_> I'm planning to build an epic multiphysics workstation
2019-11-04T03:29:01 < Laurenceb_> muh stratosolar,muh spacerunway
2019-11-04T03:31:23 < Laurenceb_> Stratosolar guy has terminal autism
2019-11-04T03:31:45 < Laurenceb_> unfortunately there is method in the madness of his patents
2019-11-04T03:33:32 < Laurenceb_> >plans to hang 350 tonne concrete blocks off blimps at 20km
2019-11-04T03:33:47 < Laurenceb_> >thinks biggest issue will be air traffic control
2019-11-04T03:35:20 < Thorn> how much leakage does a door reed switch have?
2019-11-04T03:35:37 < kakipro> should be really little leak
2019-11-04T03:36:19 < dongs> hmm G4 pinout is fucking weird
2019-11-04T03:36:32 < dongs> compared to F0
2019-11-04T03:43:34 < Laurenceb_> they werent able to steal that part of the layout
2019-11-04T03:46:12 < qyx> dongs: f030+uln2003a for every pair of solenoids
2019-11-04T03:46:37 < qyx> it costs nearly nothing and less cables
2019-11-04T03:49:00 < dongs> uh so you have like 16 F030's there??
2019-11-04T03:49:02 < BrainDamage> Thorn: pA/fA
2019-11-04T03:52:02 < Thorn> qyx: y not stm8
2019-11-04T03:52:23 < Thorn> BrainDamage: ok thx
2019-11-04T03:52:49 < BrainDamage> leakage dominated by ... cosmic rays ( not kidding )
2019-11-04T03:53:08 < Ultrasauce> what are they usually filled with anyway? just N2 or something fancy?
2019-11-04T03:53:33 < Thorn> can you use them as a geiger counter
2019-11-04T03:53:45 < BrainDamage> you can use them as a ion chamber
2019-11-04T03:54:57 < BrainDamage> Ultrasauce: iirc co2 is also popular, you just need something non-oxidizing
2019-11-04T03:56:10 < Thorn> boeing pad abort test T - 12 h https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1NLQ4bO-f58
2019-11-04T04:08:25 < dongs> damn
2019-11-04T04:08:40 < dongs> there's no way to get I2C on G4 on pins next to each other (or pin compatible with F0)
2019-11-04T04:08:45 < dongs> unless using SWDIO/SWCLK pins
2019-11-04T04:08:53 < dongs> PF0/PF1 for some reason they removed that AF
2019-11-04T04:09:07 < dongs> so I2C_SDA is on PF0 but I2C_SCL is on PA9 or someshit
2019-11-04T04:09:09 < dongs> fuckin aids wtf
2019-11-04T04:09:38 < rue_mohr> softi2c...
2019-11-04T04:10:11 < dongs> yeah no
2019-11-04T04:10:20 < rue_mohr> why not.
2019-11-04T04:10:42 < dongs> 1) i2c slave 2) juts no
2019-11-04T04:10:47 < dongs> *just
2019-11-04T04:10:51 < rue_mohr> what if I imply that it takes less codespace to implement softi2c than to operate i2c hardware
2019-11-04T04:11:16 < dongs> i paid zyp to write software i2c slave and it uses 100% cpu on F103 @ 120mhz
2019-11-04T04:11:19 < dongs> so no
2019-11-04T04:11:51 < rue_mohr> haha
2019-11-04T04:11:53 < rue_mohr> fail
2019-11-04T04:12:14 < rue_mohr> how did it manage 100%?
2019-11-04T04:12:23 < dongs> i2c >slave<
2019-11-04T04:12:25 < rue_mohr> no interrupts or timers or anything?
2019-11-04T04:12:31 < dongs> the timing is very strict
2019-11-04T04:12:36 < dongs> for replies and shit
2019-11-04T04:12:41 < rue_mohr> high bandwidth device?
2019-11-04T04:12:58 < Thorn> f103 is 72 mHz max iirc
2019-11-04T04:13:08 < dongs> thorn, overclockable to 144
2019-11-04T04:13:10 < dongs> just fine
2019-11-04T04:13:12 < rue_mohr> you cant overclock them?
2019-11-04T04:13:32 < Thorn> overclocking is not pro
2019-11-04T04:13:42 < dongs> wiht 12mhz xtal and multipler for PLL goes to x16 iirc
2019-11-04T04:13:51 < dongs> thorn, which is why I gve up on that implementation
2019-11-04T04:13:57 < dongs> it wouldn't work well at 72m
2019-11-04T04:14:19 < dongs> i mean technically it didnt matter because all that F103 did was accept I2C and managed hardware PWM timers
2019-11-04T04:14:24 < rue_mohr> well, I wish I'd implemented an i2c slave I could show you it done properly
2019-11-04T04:14:27 < dongs> no usb or other shit
2019-11-04T04:14:33 < dongs> yeah except you couldnt
2019-11-04T04:14:38 < dongs> because the requirements are still same
2019-11-04T04:14:42 < rue_mohr> I _DIDN"T_ 
2019-11-04T04:14:51 < dongs> you wouln't be able to even if you did
2019-11-04T04:14:53 < rue_mohr> not sayin I couldn't
2019-11-04T04:15:00 < rue_mohr> uh...
2019-11-04T04:15:05 < rue_mohr> your baiting me right?
2019-11-04T04:15:29 < rue_mohr> you _ARE_ baiting me right?
2019-11-04T04:15:31 < dongs> i dont think you understand, i2c master is easy as shit because you literally just buttbang stuff in a loop
2019-11-04T04:15:35 < dongs> I2c slave is *hard*
2019-11-04T04:15:47 < dongs> this is why the shit is done in harwdare everywhere
2019-11-04T04:15:54 < rue_mohr> what a scarry glimpse of someone elses world
2019-11-04T04:16:08 < dongs> rue_mohr: are you a friend of ohsix_ 
2019-11-04T04:16:28 < rue_mohr> where is a twitter video of a cat doing something stupid I can use to wash this from my mind.
2019-11-04T04:16:42 < dongs> yeah OK
2019-11-04T04:16:48 < rue_mohr> am I his freind of is he my friend?
2019-11-04T04:16:56 < rue_mohr> I dont know the name
2019-11-04T04:19:48 < rue_mohr> ok, I'm supposed to be working on a 2.45V regulator
2019-11-04T04:21:18 < Thorn> tl431
2019-11-04T04:23:21 < rue_mohr> lm317 !?
2019-11-04T04:23:45 < rue_mohr> wtf would i want to shunt regulate it!
2019-11-04T04:23:53 < rue_mohr> :0 ?
2019-11-04T04:23:56 < rue_mohr> :)
2019-11-04T04:24:47 < Laurenceb_> Reddit: the word chemist is like calling someone a biolist or physist. Chemistrist seems more appropriate
2019-11-04T04:24:51 < Laurenceb_> peak reddit
2019-11-04T04:25:46 < Thorn> >stm32cubemx cannot load this MCU
2019-11-04T04:25:48 < Thorn> wtf
2019-11-04T04:35:51 < rue_mohr> heh, I bet nobody can do a i2c slave cause nobody can grasp FSMs worth a damn...
2019-11-04T04:36:04 < Laurenceb_> trolls everywhere
2019-11-04T04:36:22 < rue_mohr> I'm not trolling, its just halarious
2019-11-04T04:36:26 < Laurenceb_> I fit in well here
2019-11-04T04:36:54 < Laurenceb_> I trolls so hard I'm b& from every chan
2019-11-04T04:37:23 < rue_mohr> I doubt you can catch up to flyback
2019-11-04T04:37:44 < Laurenceb_> oh god
2019-11-04T04:37:53 < Laurenceb_> you are a greybeard
2019-11-04T04:38:21 < rue_mohr> amongst the greyest
2019-11-04T04:38:23  * rue_mohr bows
2019-11-04T04:38:41 < Laurenceb_> I wonder what happened to that guy
2019-11-04T04:38:50 < dongs> he still can't shit
2019-11-04T04:38:54 < rue_mohr> ask him, he's in #robotics
2019-11-04T04:38:55 < Laurenceb_> maybe doomba is him
2019-11-04T04:38:57 < Laurenceb_> oh
2019-11-04T04:39:03 < Laurenceb_> CANUCK
2019-11-04T04:39:12  * rue_mohr chuckles
2019-11-04T04:39:13 < Laurenceb_> takes me back to 2006
2019-11-04T04:39:34 < rue_mohr> oh, you dont go back too far
2019-11-04T04:39:38 < dongs> why teh fuck
2019-11-04T04:39:43 < dongs> nobody has STM32G081XX in stock???
2019-11-04T04:39:49 < Laurenceb_> no irc at school
2019-11-04T04:40:20 < Laurenceb_> we used to watch alex jones and go to ebaums world
2019-11-04T04:40:32 < rue_mohr> mmm irc on dialup...
2019-11-04T04:41:40 < rue_mohr> hmm, you dont see many animal vids with skunks and beavers...
2019-11-04T04:42:42  * Laurenceb_ zzz
2019-11-04T04:44:32 < rue_mohr> I wonder why ##electronics people are comming up all over the place all the sudden
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2019-11-04T04:47:14 < rue_mohr> 2008: 12:59:06: ......Laurenceb:"rename N$50 GND" ?
2019-11-04T04:47:23 < rue_mohr> hmm
2019-11-04T04:57:14 < Ultrasauce> flyback still randomly PMs me approximately once per year
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2019-11-04T05:42:26 < mawk> lol you know him Ultrasauce ?
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2019-11-04T06:58:48 < Cracki> ocean cleanup dude now has active cleanup droneships https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KyZArQMFhQ4
2019-11-04T07:00:39 < Cracki> plans to build four of these a week
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2019-11-04T07:47:21 < Cracki> I think the active cleanup stuff was pitched for cleaning the big pacific garbage patch but that didn't have enough density
2019-11-04T07:48:04 < Cracki> they'll probably deploy those there when that passive approach has raised density
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2019-11-04T12:07:13 < Thorn> "to power our sensors from a coin cell we will use an ultra low power boost. now the boost doesn't have a load disconnect feature so we'll also add an ultra nano power load switch." <-- TI
2019-11-04T12:07:32 < Thorn> how to sell a bunch of components by using a reference design
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2019-11-04T12:27:10 < rue_bed> and where are they gonna put the waste from the cleanup?
2019-11-04T12:27:20 < rue_bed> we launching it into the sun yet?
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2019-11-04T12:33:06 < rue_bed> wait.... wait... how many plastic ducks did they buy to demo this thing?????
2019-11-04T12:35:59 < rue_bed> everyone noticed the flux capacitor, right?
2019-11-04T12:36:03 < rue_bed> haha
2019-11-04T12:42:43 < rue_bed> lots of funding tho, wow
2019-11-04T12:48:06 < Steffanx> Hows your dutchland adventure going mawk?
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2019-11-04T13:21:14 < Thorn> embedded systems in a pipe organ https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ysnbcjkYNjs
2019-11-04T13:44:49 < englishman> dongs: 081 is crypto right?
2019-11-04T13:47:15 < Thorn> T - 2 h https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1NLQ4bO-f58
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2019-11-04T14:19:51 < kakipro> englishman: you wake up at 6?
2019-11-04T14:20:30 < englishman> ofc
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2019-11-04T14:29:30 < kakipro> how long is your daily commute englishman?
2019-11-04T14:29:58 < englishman> 18 minutes by car
2019-11-04T14:30:14 < kakipro> not bad!
2019-11-04T14:33:24 < englishman> yeah it's all highway
2019-11-04T14:33:25 < kakipro> have you ever seen a bit slip in RMII configuration?
2019-11-04T14:33:39 < englishman> it is a good city:country ratio
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2019-11-04T14:34:57 < kakipro> if I were to get job from the city it's 1hour per direction
2019-11-04T14:35:41 < englishman> that's just untenable
2019-11-04T14:35:49 < englishman> 10 hours per week in a car
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2019-11-04T14:37:23  * karlp rides ~10minutes each way,
2019-11-04T14:37:45 < catphish> PCBs be arrived :) https://i.imgur.com/xs6DCfA.jpg
2019-11-04T14:38:27 < catphish> "jlcpcb quality" :)
2019-11-04T14:40:06 < kakipro> is there any justification for using MII instead of RMII?
2019-11-04T14:40:38 < catphish> i've never seen any benenit when i've looked
2019-11-04T14:40:41 < catphish> *benefit
2019-11-04T14:41:53 < karlp> it's probably easier to run MII over a pile of loose wires if you're into that sort of thing, as it's only half the speed.
2019-11-04T14:41:57 < karlp> but yeah, no. :)
2019-11-04T14:42:22 < kakipro> how about crystal accuracy and bit slipping?
2019-11-04T14:43:02 < karlp> you're mad.
2019-11-04T14:43:54 < kakipro> maybe if there is clock mismatch condition where bit slip would happen if MII was not used another end of the ethernet line is using RMII and will slip so no benefit there
2019-11-04T14:57:36 < kakipro> some forum postings say 50mhz from MCO is problematic
2019-11-04T14:57:45 < kakipro> they are noobs?
2019-11-04T14:58:10 < kakipro> https://www.reddit.com/r/AskElectronics/comments/269tvh/mii_vs_rmii_on_stm32/
2019-11-04T15:01:10 < kakipro> oh rx clock is from mac to phy
2019-11-04T15:02:59 < kakipro> actually no datasheet says it's output from PHY derived from receive data stream speed
2019-11-04T15:14:59 < kakipro> why would anyone want to use half duplex ethernet?
2019-11-04T15:15:09 < kakipro> why is it an option?
2019-11-04T15:15:18 < kakipro> it's never desired mode of operation or is it?
2019-11-04T15:16:34 < Ultrasauce> 10base2
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2019-11-04T15:16:58 < kakipro> yes
2019-11-04T15:16:59 < Thorn> kakipro: I've been using rmii and 50MHz from MCO for refclk and it's been working just fine. "rmii does not work proper" reeks of adrweeno
2019-11-04T15:17:15 < kakipro> they noob
2019-11-04T15:17:27 < kakipro> Ultrasauce: how do you explain 100 half duplex?
2019-11-04T15:17:45 < Thorn> if you have 4 layers then it's quite difficult to make rmii fail through bad routing
2019-11-04T15:18:03 < Thorn> and even with 2 layers it should not be a problem
2019-11-04T15:18:47 < Ultrasauce> 100base-t4
2019-11-04T15:19:55 < Ultrasauce> sure its an early implementation that nobody uses, but theres no reason not to support it to some degree
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2019-11-04T15:25:01 < kakipro> it's for symmetry across the protocols?
2019-11-04T15:25:21 < Thorn> holy fuck IRLML2502 leakage from drain to source is up to 25µA
2019-11-04T15:25:36 < zyp> kakipro, both your phy and mine can generate the 50MHz ref clock, so just feed it 25 MHz from MCO or slap a crystal on it
2019-11-04T15:25:56 < kakipro> indeed
2019-11-04T15:26:08 < kakipro> there is an option to operate from 25Mhz clock
2019-11-04T15:26:12 < kakipro> even in RMII mode
2019-11-04T15:26:40 < zyp> my design has the phy generating the ref clock from its own crystal
2019-11-04T15:26:56 < kakipro> why would you do that?
2019-11-04T15:27:11 < zyp> do what?
2019-11-04T15:27:24 < kakipro> have own xtal for phy?
2019-11-04T15:27:33 < kakipro> you need MCO pin for something else?
2019-11-04T15:28:23 < Thorn> oh wait I also feed my phy 25MHz from MCO, not 50
2019-11-04T15:28:34 < Thorn> the phy doubles it 
2019-11-04T15:28:39 < zyp> no, but the crystal is $.18 and I can afford that to not have to figure out a ghetto solution
2019-11-04T15:29:25 < zyp> and when I originally did that design four-five years ago, nobody else had tried feeding the phy from MCO yet and I figured I didn't wanna be the first and find out it doesn't work in practice
2019-11-04T15:30:26 < zyp> also, routing a crystal next to the phy is probably easier than routing another signal between phy and mcu
2019-11-04T15:30:48 < zyp> don't have to cross a bunch of other shit
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2019-11-04T15:31:03 < kakipro> but if you use 25mhz from MCO do you need RX_CLK?
2019-11-04T15:31:20 < zyp> there's no such thing as RX_CLK in RMII
2019-11-04T15:31:34 < zyp> RMII uses a common 50MHz REF_CLK that is shared between mac and phy
2019-11-04T15:32:57 < kakipro> https://drive.google.com/file/d/1N_VORS4PA3Bqp0s_SJNN-IslrVia76bf/view?usp=sharing
2019-11-04T15:34:22 < zyp> yeah, all the optional shit is bullshit, forget about that
2019-11-04T15:34:34 < kakipro> do I want slave or master configuration?
2019-11-04T15:35:29 < kakipro> why is RX_CLK an option still?
2019-11-04T15:35:48 < zyp> it's the same shit
2019-11-04T15:36:16 < zyp> the difference is just whether the PHY generates the 50MHz REF_CLK or whether it's externally generated and fed to both
2019-11-04T15:36:39 < zyp> doesn't make any difference to the MAC
2019-11-04T15:36:51 < kakipro> so MCO to X1 and that's all the clocks required?
2019-11-04T15:37:06 < zyp> no
2019-11-04T15:37:17 < zyp> the MAC needs a 50MHz input on REF_CLK
2019-11-04T15:37:47 < zyp> you can in theory do 50MHz MCO and feed it both to the MAC and to XI on the PHY
2019-11-04T15:38:12 < zyp> or you can do 25MHz MCO and feed it to XI on the PHY, then grab RX_D3 on the PHY and feed that to REF_CLK on the MAC
2019-11-04T15:38:34 < Laurenceb> freaking opensores
2019-11-04T15:38:42 < Laurenceb> >calculix completed without error
2019-11-04T15:38:46 < Laurenceb> >no results
2019-11-04T15:38:48 < kakipro> love it
2019-11-04T15:39:28 < kakipro> it's maybe better to MCO to phy and D3 to REF_CLK zyp?
2019-11-04T15:44:06 < kakipro> do I need to phase shift TX data?
2019-11-04T15:48:00 < jadew> https://www.bicycling.com/news/a29578581/rachel-mckinnon-world-championship-masters-win-transgender-sport-debate/
2019-11-04T15:49:03 < jadew> tldr: transgender dude wins women's bicycling world championship
2019-11-04T15:49:46 < kakipro> yes
2019-11-04T15:50:09 < kakipro> in future sports if for dudes only
2019-11-04T15:50:18 < jadew> lol
2019-11-04T15:50:29 < kakipro> it's a full cycle
2019-11-04T15:50:49 < Thorn> stream live https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1NLQ4bO-f58
2019-11-04T15:51:04 < kakipro> what are causes of TX_ER?
2019-11-04T15:51:11 < kakipro> what is odd nibble?
2019-11-04T15:51:41 < kakipro> why there is no TX_ER in RMII
2019-11-04T15:54:55 < Thorn> because it never fails
2019-11-04T15:58:06 < kakipro> 0 = Enable detection of transmit error in odd-nibble boundary
2019-11-04T15:58:24 < kakipro> there is only one register description that talks about tx error
2019-11-04T15:59:05 < kakipro> how does tx even fail?
2019-11-04T15:59:34 < kakipro> you have data, you have clock, it's all synchronized to that clock
2019-11-04T15:59:46 < kakipro> your data is valid no matter what
2019-11-04T16:16:30 < Thorn> test looks successful
2019-11-04T16:19:44 < kakipro> MAC to PHY
2019-11-04T16:19:56 < kakipro> that is direction of TX_ER signaling
2019-11-04T16:47:07 < kakipro> is there a way to calibrate local clock to remote end clock in RMII?
2019-11-04T16:47:26 < zyp> what?
2019-11-04T16:47:51 < qyx> wtf kakipro 
2019-11-04T16:47:57 < qyx> get a reference schematic, copy, done
2019-11-04T16:48:01 < qyx> it was like 10 minutes
2019-11-04T16:48:14 < kakipro> no I need to autism first
2019-11-04T16:48:18 < qyx> ic
2019-11-04T16:49:05 < kakipro> just connect RX_CLK optional pin to some timer input and calculate correction for oscillator?
2019-11-04T16:49:53 < zyp> forget it
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2019-11-04T16:53:38 < kakipro> I will
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2019-11-04T17:05:08 < kakipro> is there 1 segment LCDs?
2019-11-04T17:05:30 < kakipro> like an indicator without active light source
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2019-11-04T17:12:37 < qyx> https://hackaday.com/2016/06/17/how-to-make-a-custom-lcd-from-scratch/
2019-11-04T17:12:40 < qyx> here you go
2019-11-04T17:13:48 < kakipro> simple lcd segment displays are expensive :o
2019-11-04T17:14:16 < qyx> expensive?
2019-11-04T17:14:32 < qyx> you can get 7 segment under 1€ and some 14 segment under 2€ maybe
2019-11-04T17:15:06 < kakipro> 1-digit?
2019-11-04T17:19:54 < karlp> https://lcsc.com/product-detail/Led-Segment-Display_SM410561N_C141368.html 13c.
2019-11-04T17:20:16 < karlp> hang on, you want an lcd, single digit?
2019-11-04T17:20:20 < karlp> what on earth for?
2019-11-04T17:22:02 < karlp> https://www.digikey.com/product-detail/en/lumex-opto-components-inc/LCD-S2X1C50TR/67-1787-ND/469771 is cheap quick, but not quite 1€ in singles
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2019-11-04T17:32:07 < zyp> single segment, not digit
2019-11-04T17:32:16 < zyp> presumably to have a low power indicator
2019-11-04T17:40:33 < kakipro> id display
2019-11-04T17:40:49 < kakipro> in multimodule system
2019-11-04T17:40:57 < kakipro> even one segment would do
2019-11-04T17:41:20 < kakipro> I don't want it I'm just exploring an option
2019-11-04T17:43:24 < jpa-> kakipro: you could buy that window film
2019-11-04T17:43:48 < jpa-> https://www.ebay.com/itm/Smart-Window-Glass-Film-White-PDLC-Switchable-Privacy-withController-23cmx11-8cm/153615958758?hash=item23c43982e6:g:BCIAAOSwU2JduOqM
2019-11-04T17:44:19 < jpa-> (and cut to pieces)
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2019-11-04T17:47:44 < kakipro> 800uW per square centimeter + power supply power consumption
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2019-11-04T17:58:35 < qyx> how big should your indicator be
2019-11-04T17:58:52 < qyx> a white led is ~visible at 100uA
2019-11-04T17:59:01 < Cracki> butcher a pocket calc?
2019-11-04T17:59:01 < qyx> which is lower than 800uW
2019-11-04T18:02:12 < bitmask> did I do this right? https://i.imgur.com/yNRjved.png
2019-11-04T18:06:41 < Cracki> ruined
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2019-11-04T18:16:55 < karlp> gak. upgraded to fedora 30. unplugging hdmi cable no longer puts everythign ont he laptop screen.
2019-11-04T18:17:04 < karlp> now I just have no title bar, and all my windows "off in space" somewhere
2019-11-04T18:18:12 < qyx> grap alt key
2019-11-04T18:18:20 < qyx> and try to move them back!
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2019-11-04T19:19:56 < englishman> lol lunix
2019-11-04T19:20:11 < englishman> still struggling with >1 monitor support
2019-11-04T19:22:24 < PaulFertser> Even with >0 monitors setup
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2019-11-04T19:32:37 < Steffanx> lol PaulFertser, since when did you become such critic?
2019-11-04T19:34:08 < PaulFertser> Steffanx: just stating the obvious, it's not rare for any OS to have issues with GPU drivers, GNU/Linux is no exception.
2019-11-04T19:37:22 < Steffanx> Windows does good with my nvidia driver
2019-11-04T19:37:41  * Steffanx shows lunis the middle finger.
2019-11-04T19:38:02 < PaulFertser> But not in 100% of cases with all the video cards available, and it wasn't always good.
2019-11-04T19:38:03 < Steffanx> not my driver, but ..
2019-11-04T19:38:32 < Steffanx> :)
2019-11-04T19:40:16 < karlp> englishman: it's worked for years honestly, no fucking clue wha thappened 
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2019-11-04T19:42:26 < invzim> 1.27mm IDC cables do not last forever - had SWO fail on me and turned out to be the cable
2019-11-04T19:53:10 < Ultrasauce> yeah shit's not made to be handled
2019-11-04T19:55:16 < zyp> also depends how shit cables you buy
2019-11-04T19:55:39 < zyp> I had one once that failed quickly, and the replacement has worked since
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2019-11-04T20:01:27 < jpa-> not sure about SWO, but SWD protocol in particular seems quite prone to errors with flaky cables
2019-11-04T20:02:02 < invzim> it was confusing, as I could program and debug the part, just swv that died
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2019-11-04T20:04:48 < zyp> jpa-, how so? what do you compare to?
2019-11-04T20:05:45 < jpa-> well, usart mostly
2019-11-04T20:06:38 < zyp> usart is jus a lowlevel transport, what happens if you corrupt a few bytes depends on what you run on top of it
2019-11-04T20:07:03 < zyp> swd is a stack of layers that all needs to keep in sync
2019-11-04T20:07:09 < jpa-> yeah
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2019-11-04T21:59:05 < Thorn> if I cut power to i2c devices they will still be powered through i2c pullups so I should cut gnd instead?
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2019-11-04T22:04:28 < kakipro> isn't there chips that are used to isolate bus with no power?
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2019-11-04T22:05:22 < kakipro> isolation not the right word for it though
2019-11-04T22:07:38 < kakipro> https://www.nxp.com/docs/en/data-sheet/PCA9547.pdf
2019-11-04T22:07:56 < kakipro> multiplexer
2019-11-04T22:08:03 < kakipro> just an example chip
2019-11-04T22:10:54 < kakipro> https://www.nxp.com/products/interfaces/ic-spi-serial-interface-devices/ic-multiplexers-switches:MC_41851 variety of channel counts
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2019-11-04T23:07:53 < kakipro> what do I do with totally unused pins of PHY
2019-11-04T23:08:05 < kakipro> as those pins have no funtion in RMII mode
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2019-11-04T23:08:47 < kakipro> pins are in state "Hi-Z" when not used by the current operating mode
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2019-11-04T23:10:53 < catphish> i wish i sucked less at soldering :( i just can't seem to solder even small QFPs competently
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2019-11-04T23:11:44 < kakipro> smaller the easier
2019-11-04T23:11:49 < catphish> i think my problem is placement more than anything, components don't seem to magically snap into place like they do in videos :(
2019-11-04T23:11:59 < kakipro> how is your stencil?
2019-11-04T23:12:03 < catphish> if i place *perfectly* it does work
2019-11-04T23:12:15 < kakipro> do you have EP?
2019-11-04T23:12:31 < catphish> this stencil seems a little too thick, getting more bridges than i have before
2019-11-04T23:12:50 < catphish> though i'm not sure, could just be placement
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2019-11-04T23:13:10 < catphish> i don't think there's any one thing wrong, i'm just being a newbie
2019-11-04T23:13:32 < kakipro> you iron the pins after the reflow?
2019-11-04T23:13:49 < catphish> i often have to
2019-11-04T23:14:16 < catphish> to clear the bridges, and even then, i tend to need extra flux and wick
2019-11-04T23:14:40 < kakipro> flux is a requirement
2019-11-04T23:14:48 < kakipro> it needs to flood
2019-11-04T23:15:11 < kakipro> does the iron make it better or worse?
2019-11-04T23:15:19 < catphish> mostly worse
2019-11-04T23:15:30 < kakipro> pic of your iron tip
2019-11-04T23:16:27 < kakipro> also describe the process from start to finish
2019-11-04T23:16:40 < kakipro> detailed description what you do
2019-11-04T23:17:56 < catphish> tip - https://i.imgur.com/ED4Ye62.jpg
2019-11-04T23:18:37 < kakipro> not ideal
2019-11-04T23:18:40 < catphish> this is my last board which was actually successful after using hot air to solder and iron and wich to remove bridges https://i.imgur.com/pOjcQxF.jpg
2019-11-04T23:18:40 < kakipro> temperature?
2019-11-04T23:18:45 < catphish> clearly my aligment still sucks
2019-11-04T23:18:50 < catphish> 300
2019-11-04T23:19:22 < kakipro> that iron tip is more useless it looks
2019-11-04T23:19:41 < kakipro> also iron is not tip heater you might want to throw 350C there
2019-11-04T23:19:51 < kakipro> to get that 250 or so to end of the tip
2019-11-04T23:20:19 < catphish> what kind of tip do i want for this?
2019-11-04T23:20:39 < catphish> ideally to be able to just drag straight down the pins without making a mess
2019-11-04T23:21:16 < kakipro> https://www.seeedstudio.com/TS-BC2-Series-Solder-Iron-Tip-For-Mini-Soldering-Iron.html this type works 99% time better to any soldering
2019-11-04T23:21:20 < catphish> but looking at this, which i thought was perfectly aligned, it's clear that i need to align with a microscope before i apply heat
2019-11-04T23:21:38 < kakipro> it should align itself
2019-11-04T23:22:04 < kakipro> if there is enough heat, flux and you ever so slightly poke it in right way
2019-11-04T23:23:14 < catphish> interesting, i think my first attempt (on a hot plate) didn't have enough flux, and hence didn't align, and the second attempt i did one side at a time, so it didn't have an opportunity to do so, and probably still not enough flux, i seem not to remember to flood with flux until after i already run into trouble
2019-11-04T23:23:35 < kakipro> is your footprint ok?
2019-11-04T23:23:37 < catphish> i'll try again from the beginning with paste, perfect alignment, and flood with flux before heating
2019-11-04T23:24:00 < catphish> it almost certainly is, at risk of trusting kicad
2019-11-04T23:24:15 < kakipro> just keep it heated and apply flux when paste has melted
2019-11-04T23:24:28 < kakipro> inhale first
2019-11-04T23:24:41 < kakipro> and don't be scared to apply tons of heat
2019-11-04T23:24:48 < kakipro> infrared thermometer is useful
2019-11-04T23:25:07 < kakipro> your chip won't die but the pcb may
2019-11-04T23:25:21 < catphish> i do apply quite a lot of heat from the hotplate, and i do have a thermometer, try not to get it get above about 220 though
2019-11-04T23:25:40 < kakipro> if so apply heat from above with blower
2019-11-04T23:25:53 < kakipro> unless you have low melting point solder
2019-11-04T23:25:58 < mawk> why no above 220 ?
2019-11-04T23:26:07 < mawk> unless the pcb starts to melt you're ok
2019-11-04T23:26:12 < catphish> that just seems hot enough :)
2019-11-04T23:26:28 < kakipro> it's not
2019-11-04T23:27:05 < kakipro> I personally did heat to about 180 or so and then used blower with 350C or so and really slow flowrate
2019-11-04T23:27:23 < catphish> interesting, well i'll try again :)
2019-11-04T23:27:29 < kakipro> to not blow the chip away
2019-11-04T23:28:07 < kakipro> you need to have small stick type of thing available to poke the chip
2019-11-04T23:28:35 < kakipro> also magnifying gear like loop thing is good to have
2019-11-04T23:29:03 < kakipro> thing you wear like a cap or something
2019-11-04T23:29:18 < kakipro> or welding mask rather
2019-11-04T23:30:08 < kakipro> you can redo boards many times catphish
2019-11-04T23:30:11 < kakipro> many cycles
2019-11-04T23:30:22 < kakipro> some solders will start to go into shit after few tries
2019-11-04T23:30:33 < aandrew> it's usually the flux that starts to turn to shit, no?
2019-11-04T23:30:37 < kakipro> silver crystals start to push out of solder or something
2019-11-04T23:30:43 < turnip420> hi
2019-11-04T23:30:44 < kakipro> that too
2019-11-04T23:30:52 < kakipro> but why not just flood it again?
2019-11-04T23:31:10 < kakipro> if it goes brown and sticky just wash it and redo
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2019-11-04T23:35:43 < kakipro> catphish: if you apply flux before heating the paste it will spread paste around
2019-11-04T23:35:49 < kakipro> when heated
2019-11-04T23:36:23 < kakipro> paste starts to flow with it and you have solder microballs everywhere
2019-11-04T23:39:11 < kakipro> "In RMII mode, RX_ER is asserted high synchronously to therising edge of the reference clock. This pin is not required to be used bythe MAC in MII or RMII because the PHY is corrupting data on a receiveerror."
2019-11-04T23:39:33 < kakipro> what does corrupting data mean in practice?
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2019-11-04T23:42:18 < ohsix> sup
2019-11-04T23:42:55 < ohsix> i got a tl866ii plus and it's pretty good, but the nand support sucks and the firmware doesn't have an open third party version. anyone got a favorite thing for working with nand?
2019-11-04T23:43:02 < ohsix> i'm looking at the flashcat mach1
2019-11-04T23:43:59 < ohsix> also the fx2lp has a demo board & stuff that can be adapted that doesn't seem horrible if i have to fly wire it
2019-11-04T23:49:06 < kakipro> stm32 eval board
2019-11-04T23:53:29 < ohsix> does one of them already have an onfi footprint or something?
2019-11-04T23:54:12 < ohsix> oops, rather; yea i've got some blue pills and stuff but they didn't seem more convenient than anything else for a hacked together thing
2019-11-04T23:54:33 < ohsix> they do have fsmc and usb tho
2019-11-04T23:55:47 < ohsix> the thing i actually need to use it with has 128 4k sector block size
2019-11-04T23:57:36 < ohsix> (probably irrelevant, but that's why it doesn't work with the tl866ii in practice, at least not without new firmware)
2019-11-04T23:59:18 < kakipro> i have tl866ii plus or something there
2019-11-04T23:59:23 < kakipro> unopened box
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--- Day changed Tue Nov 05 2019
2019-11-05T00:00:01 < kakipro> in tools money is well spent
2019-11-05T00:01:32 < ohsix> neat https://www.micron.com/-/media/client/global/documents/products/other-documents/micron_stmicroelectronics_compatibility_guide.pdf?la=en
2019-11-05T00:09:50 < kakipro> there you go
2019-11-05T00:11:03 < ohsix> https://www.amazon.com/Waveshare-NandFlash-Board-K9F1G08U0C-Development/dp/B00KM6WPLY cute
2019-11-05T00:12:40 < kakipro> ohsix is back
2019-11-05T00:12:44 < kakipro> where were you?
2019-11-05T00:12:57 < kakipro> like an yaer or so
2019-11-05T00:13:00 < kakipro> or 2
2019-11-05T00:14:32 < ohsix> just busy
2019-11-05T00:15:00 < kakipro> did you unbusy yourself?
2019-11-05T00:15:22 < ohsix> once i wasn't staying up until 4am chatting it kind of stopped getting on irc, and the laptop i had on irc 24/7 that i'd see during part of the day broke :D
2019-11-05T00:15:42 < ohsix> qualified unbusy, been in to ask questions about stuff
2019-11-05T00:17:31 < ohsix> been extra busy the last month trying to keep up with some other nerds
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2019-11-05T00:20:57 < ohsix> gotta get back to woooooork, later
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2019-11-05T00:30:06 < catphish> kakipro: sorry, wandered off to try another one with more flux and more heat, it looks rather incinerated, but much more successful!
2019-11-05T00:30:19 < kakipro> pics
2019-11-05T00:30:22 < catphish> kakipro: thanks for all the pointers, i suspect i just need a lot more practice
2019-11-05T00:30:24 < catphish> 1 sec
2019-11-05T00:31:20 < catphish> sorry potato quality https://i.imgur.com/x06nv5x.jpg
2019-11-05T00:32:13 < kakipro> looks better
2019-11-05T00:32:26 < catphish> no hot air needed, just one bridge to remove with the iron, which was easier at 350 with more flux
2019-11-05T00:33:05 < catphish> i'm sure i'll get quicker if i keep doing it and not need to incinerate the pcb quite so much
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2019-11-05T00:57:26  * karlp foolishly tried to use platformio to do something quickly
2019-11-05T00:57:56 < karlp> worked on the quick arduino demo, fell apart in a pile when I tried to use espressif rtos sdk. instead, despite being "supported"
2019-11-05T00:58:01 < karlp> lameo to the maxo.
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2019-11-05T01:13:54 < kakipro> WHY DID YOU DO IT
2019-11-05T01:15:10 -!- bitmask [~bitmask@2601:84:c702:f500:fd9a:4c45:8a65:adb7] has quit [Quit: Gone to sleep...]
2019-11-05T01:15:40 < rmaw> anyone ever used an ardunio ?
2019-11-05T01:16:13 < rmaw> is this thing going to be able to interrupt fast enough for a 800khz signal
2019-11-05T01:21:35 < catphish> interrupt at 800kHz on a 16MHz MCU?
2019-11-05T01:22:24 < qyx_> we do not know how fast the interrupt is firing
2019-11-05T01:22:33 -!- qyx_ is now known as qyx
2019-11-05T01:22:53 < qyx> also, what is a 800kHz signal
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2019-11-05T01:26:20 < rmaw> sorry, clock
2019-11-05T01:26:26 < rmaw> actually its a 1mhz  clock
2019-11-05T01:26:49 < catphish> i feel like i'm missing some information
2019-11-05T01:26:55 < catphish> how fast is this interrupt firing?
2019-11-05T01:27:03 < rmaw> the clock is 1mhz
2019-11-05T01:27:22 < rmaw> interrupt is on the falling edge of the clock
2019-11-05T01:27:37 < catphish> ok, and what's the CPU clock? (16MHz arduino)?
2019-11-05T01:27:45 < rmaw> think so, yeah
2019-11-05T01:27:58 < catphish> then i stick by my original thought of "no"
2019-11-05T01:28:17 < catphish> or "maybe, but it would be useless"
2019-11-05T01:28:32 < qyx> why would you even use interrupt for every single bit?
2019-11-05T01:28:39 < catphish> now that's the question
2019-11-05T01:29:08 < catphish> the arduino has a uart than can handle such speeds i believe
2019-11-05T01:29:15 < rmaw> sorry, the interrupt is on an enable
2019-11-05T01:29:15 < qyx> SPI too
2019-11-05T01:29:21 < rmaw> then sampling
2019-11-05T01:29:56 < englishman> how about you tell us what you want to do with your Arduino. in ##stm32
2019-11-05T01:30:23 < qyx> yea i was about to suggest to start again from the beginning
2019-11-05T01:30:35 < catphish> do try the beginning
2019-11-05T01:31:23 < catphish> not that i can talk, i just finished an application that samples with interrupts ot 50kHz
2019-11-05T01:31:31 < catphish> but at least i have an 80MHz MCU
2019-11-05T01:31:35 < catphish> *500kHz
2019-11-05T01:31:57 < englishman> stm32g4 is amazing
2019-11-05T01:32:27 < catphish> that goes look cool, does it beat the l4? or just cheaper?
2019-11-05T01:32:57 < englishman> well it is not low power focussed
2019-11-05T01:33:15 < catphish> i'm not sure that's a benefit
2019-11-05T01:33:36 < englishman> depends on your application
2019-11-05T01:33:36 < catphish> isn't low power just "more clock options"?
2019-11-05T01:33:44 < englishman> 170MHz
2019-11-05T01:33:57 < catphish> 170MHz is certainly faster then 80, thats cool
2019-11-05T01:34:21 < englishman> optimizing for low power typically means a lower speed limit
2019-11-05T01:34:57 < aandrew> yep there's a balance to be had between computation time (clock rate dependent) and how long you can stay asleep
2019-11-05T01:35:06 < catphish> that makes sense, never occurred to me hat 80MHz was slow, but if the g4 is twice as fast, that's a big plus
2019-11-05T01:35:55 < englishman> stm32f1 is 12 years old now and 72MHz
2019-11-05T01:38:29 < englishman> st renewed its lifecycle guarantee too
2019-11-05T01:38:37 < englishman> so 22 years of support
2019-11-05T01:38:40 < englishman> p cool
2019-11-05T01:38:49 < kakipro> WUUT
2019-11-05T01:38:55 < kakipro> 22years
2019-11-05T01:40:38 < catphish> nice
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2019-11-05T01:47:22 < kakipro> does that support include what products?
2019-11-05T01:48:11 < catphish> it include some ICs, and some chips, and some little black square things with and without legs
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2019-11-05T02:02:51 < kakipro> https://drive.google.com/file/d/1VNqIcbh1jrqWDUbnXmgtdIn3E7pnFccb/view?usp=sharing ratemypoo
2019-11-05T02:05:02 < kakipro> it's all I have archived today
2019-11-05T02:06:25 < kakipro> it takes some datashiit reading though
2019-11-05T02:10:11 < kakipro> is there any reason not to use Auto MDIX?
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2019-11-05T02:29:47 < aandrew> watching hackers
2019-11-05T02:30:01 < aandrew> fucking echo keypresses are still annoying as fuck
2019-11-05T02:32:07 < kakipro> ?
2019-11-05T02:32:12 < qyx> so g4 should be able to encode codec2 audio without overclocking
2019-11-05T02:32:22 < qyx> l4 was able too, at 140MHz
2019-11-05T02:42:26 < catphish> how many times can i analog copy a floppy disk before it gets corrupt i wonder :)
2019-11-05T02:43:13 < kakipro> 3
2019-11-05T02:47:28 < catphish> i just got to 3, got a warning that one of the tracks was shorter than expected, but the data is still in tact
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2019-11-05T02:58:51 < catphish> after 7 copies the data gets offset by enough that it gets truncated
2019-11-05T03:29:43 < kakipro> https://www.mouser.fi/datasheet/2/268/mic23050-778542.pdf what do you think?
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2019-11-05T03:32:58 < kakipro> it cost 0.25eur at 100pcs
2019-11-05T03:33:18 < kakipro> package is 2x2mm
2019-11-05T03:35:32 < kakipro> challenge accepted
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2019-11-05T03:40:46 < catphish> i wish stm32 provided s simpler way to reboot into the bootloader
2019-11-05T03:41:08 < catphish> instead, one has to reset all the clocks and jump to it manually
2019-11-05T03:41:20 < aandrew> catphish: or just trigger a watchdog
2019-11-05T03:41:46 < catphish> well that sounds easy
2019-11-05T03:43:33 < aandrew> if you're using HAL you can also just call HAL_NVIC_SystemReset()
2019-11-05T03:44:12 < catphish> system reset is one thing, but that doesn't immediately help with entering the bootloader
2019-11-05T03:44:26 < aandrew> hell
2019-11-05T03:44:47 < aandrew> using NVIC to do it is really simple too: https://pastebin.com/CYE1wDBF
2019-11-05T03:44:55 < aandrew> oh you mean THEIR bootloader
2019-11-05T03:44:57 < aandrew> the ROM bootloader
2019-11-05T03:45:10 < aandrew> well, you can still make it easier
2019-11-05T03:45:15 < catphish> sorry yes
2019-11-05T03:45:32 < kakipro> what is hard about it?
2019-11-05T03:45:37 < aandrew> issue an NVIC reset then at the start of YOUR code check to see if you want to jump to ROM bootloader and jump right at the start of your code, before you do all the clock init
2019-11-05T03:46:02 < catphish> aandrew: where would i store that request?
2019-11-05T03:46:03 < aandrew> void main(void) { if (want_bootlaoder) { jump_bootloader(); } /* normal main stuff here */ }
2019-11-05T03:46:21 < catphish> will sram remain?
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2019-11-05T03:46:24 < aandrew> catphish: I do it by taking the top of RAM down 0x20 bytes and having a struct up there
2019-11-05T03:46:41 < catphish> ie a reset won't erase the sram?
2019-11-05T03:46:46 < aandrew> my struct has a magic value and if that's valid, then I can trust the other data in the struct such as boot count and force bootloader
2019-11-05T03:47:13 < aandrew> reset does not erase RAM, the zeroing of BSS will but that's why you tell the linker that the top of RAM is just a little earlier than it really is
2019-11-05T03:47:37 < catphish> or just put this code before the erase code
2019-11-05T03:47:51 < catphish> that might be the easiest way then, thanks!
2019-11-05T03:47:52 < aandrew> Nordic has GPREG0 which is just a nonvolatile dword but really if your program isn't going ot run in 256k-32 bytes then it won't run in 256k etiher :-)
2019-11-05T03:48:04 < aandrew> well if you do that then you're screwing with crt0.s
2019-11-05T03:48:41 < catphish> with that said, reconfiguring the clocks and jumping to the bootoader may not be *that* hard
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2019-11-05T03:56:14 < kakipro> I think that is for the day
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2019-11-05T03:56:20 < kakipro> time to kakinull>
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2019-11-05T04:05:06 < kakinull> euro6 engines have after treatment unit size of the engine itself
2019-11-05T04:06:41 -!- catphish [~catphish@unaffiliated/catphish] has quit [Quit: Leaving]
2019-11-05T04:31:31 < bitmask> when tenting vias, is it the entire via, hole included?
2019-11-05T04:32:16 < Thorn> yes if it's small enough and the manufacturer is not too cheap
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2019-11-05T04:39:01 < bitmask> what size ring would you use for a 0.2mm hole
2019-11-05T04:39:56 < dongs> you dont, use 0.3mm hole and 0.5mm ring
2019-11-05T04:40:07 < dongs> 0.2mm is usually higher cost on pcb
2019-11-05T04:40:08 < bitmask> oh yea I meant 0.3
2019-11-05T04:40:19 < bitmask> ok I was using 0.6 so i'll lower that 
2019-11-05T04:40:41 < dongs> pcb houses usually have minimum anal ring size or wahtever thing
2019-11-05T04:41:24 < bitmask> oh, I must have looked and forgot, it is 0.6
2019-11-05T04:41:48 < bitmask> 0.45 for multi layer, 0.6 for 1-2
2019-11-05T04:43:04 < dongs> that sounds fucking retarded
2019-11-05T04:43:09 < dongs> some garbage chinapcb?
2019-11-05T04:43:13 < dongs> even cheapest chinashit can do 0.3/0.5 tyho
2019-11-05T04:43:15 < dongs> tho
2019-11-05T04:43:30 < bitmask> jlcpcb
2019-11-05T04:43:57 < dongs> Annular ring surrounded by traces should be equal to or larger than 3mil
2019-11-05T04:43:58 < bitmask> I just checked and I accidentally used 0.2 on my last board and I think they kept it
2019-11-05T04:44:19 < Thorn> I've been using 0.7/0.3 vias for a long time
2019-11-05T04:44:32 < Thorn> minimum for 2 layer jlc is 0.6
2019-11-05T04:44:32 < dongs> ya but you handsolder and use DIP parts
2019-11-05T04:44:39 < dongs> where does it say thaT?
2019-11-05T04:44:44 < dongs> https://jlcpcb.com/capabilities/Capabilities
2019-11-05T04:44:45 < bitmask> look a couple up
2019-11-05T04:44:56 < bitmask> min via diameter
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2019-11-05T04:45:02 < Thorn> I handsolder wlcsp too
2019-11-05T04:45:21 < Thorn> dongs: For Single&Double Layer PCB, the minimum Via diameter is 0.6mm;
2019-11-05T04:45:29 < dongs> ah ya i see it
2019-11-05T04:45:31 < dongs> lol chinkpcb.
2019-11-05T04:45:36 < dongs> i guess cuz their drill registraion is so fucking awful
2019-11-05T04:45:49 < dongs> they want you to use 0.6mm pad so the drill has at least some hope of hitting it
2019-11-05T04:45:57 < Thorn> why is there a user named via in an electronics channel
2019-11-05T04:46:04 < dongs> via: 
2019-11-05T04:46:05 < Thorn> daily highlights 
2019-11-05T04:46:09 < dongs> haha
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2019-11-05T04:47:32 < machinehum> via: fuckoff
2019-11-05T04:48:24 < jadew> Thorn, where did you get that 0.6 value?
2019-11-05T04:48:43 < machinehum> https://wiki.pine64.org/index.php/Pinebook_Pro_Main_Page
2019-11-05T04:48:49 < Thorn> from the dongs link
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2019-11-05T04:55:27 < jadew> you start wondering if it's just noise made by the displacement of the layers or if your vias are going bye bye
2019-11-05T04:55:27 < jadew> Thorn, it's not recent, it's random
2019-11-05T04:55:27 < machinehum> I mean don't use them for important shit
2019-11-05T04:55:27 < jadew> machinehum, well, even for prototyping, this makes them unreliable
2019-11-05T04:55:28 < machinehum> I mean I'm assuming you're doing rf?
2019-11-05T04:55:28 < jadew> you end up throwing away the prototype, thinking the design is wrong, when in fact it's the board
2019-11-05T04:55:33 < jadew> machinehum, yeah
2019-11-05T04:55:41 < machinehum> yeah don't use them for rf
2019-11-05T04:55:53 < jadew> I won't anymore
2019-11-05T04:56:02 < machinehum> good for rinky ding little other shit boards
2019-11-05T04:56:06 < jadew> some boards came out really nice and that's why I kept trying with them
2019-11-05T04:56:28 < jadew> but they've screwed up a couple of ~$100 orders by now
2019-11-05T04:56:32 < jadew> it's not worth it
2019-11-05T04:56:52 < machinehum> your time is more valuable
2019-11-05T04:56:57 < jadew> indeed
2019-11-05T05:06:43 -!- R2COM [~R2COM@ip24-251-252-131.ph.ph.cox.net] has joined ##stm32
2019-11-05T05:09:21 < R2COM> niggas hi
2019-11-05T05:09:28 < dongs> sup
2019-11-05T05:09:39 < R2COM> was raging on cadence today
2019-11-05T05:09:54 < R2COM> had to add some stuff in older PCB, so added new stuff in new page
2019-11-05T05:10:03 < R2COM> and during export it renamed all nets in layout
2019-11-05T05:10:08 < R2COM> and forced me to place off page connector
2019-11-05T05:10:11 < R2COM> to connect GND
2019-11-05T05:10:19 < R2COM> like wtf... never recall doing that in cadence
2019-11-05T05:11:04 < R2COM> is there any ideal pcb soft
2019-11-05T05:11:08 < R2COM> im wondering
2019-11-05T05:11:21 < R2COM> cadence soft for IC is especially a shit
2019-11-05T05:17:08 < machinehum> dumb software, I've never used it
2019-11-05T05:17:51 < jadew> I think there are different variants, because I tried one of them and it didn't look anything like the ads I've seen
2019-11-05T05:17:51 < machinehum> better or worse than atuism
2019-11-05T05:19:10 < machinehum> ?
2019-11-05T05:19:46 < jadew> I don't think R2COM has been using altium much if at all
2019-11-05T05:19:50 < jadew> so he won't be able to compare
2019-11-05T05:34:12 < dongs> cadence is all garbage
2019-11-05T05:34:18 < dongs> thier ui hasnt been updated for decades
2019-11-05T05:34:25 < dongs> its unintuitive and dumb
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2019-11-05T05:40:55 < kakinull> kicad all the way
2019-11-05T05:42:17 < machinehum> I like it better
2019-11-05T05:42:33 < machinehum> Files that arn't all fucking abstacted
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2019-11-05T06:00:06 < kakinull> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QOYcpGnHH0g
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2019-11-05T06:02:12 < R2COM> jadew i used it few years ago for some projects, at a time it was utterly shit (2014-2015)
2019-11-05T06:02:38 < R2COM> is kicad still being improved and worked on?
2019-11-05T06:02:59 < R2COM> i wonder how good/bad is it today (cuz i used it long time ago too, even for some spartan6 fpga projects)
2019-11-05T06:03:16 < R2COM> what i never used is mentor PADs, i wonder if its good or no
2019-11-05T06:03:21 < R2COM> but its not cheap
2019-11-05T06:04:17 < jadew> R2COM, kicad is being worked on, but it's going slow
2019-11-05T06:04:29 < jadew> it could use maybe 10x the development power
2019-11-05T06:04:33 < R2COM> kicad looks like simple and clean software though
2019-11-05T06:04:36 -!- fenugrec [~fenugrec@24.105.71.66] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds]
2019-11-05T06:04:42 < R2COM> honestly, i never remember anything bad about it
2019-11-05T06:04:52 < jadew> it is, they recently rearranged the UI a little, so things make more sense
2019-11-05T06:04:53 < R2COM> the only thing which i was upset at a time is kicad didnt do diff length and matching
2019-11-05T06:04:54 < R2COM> but
2019-11-05T06:04:58 < R2COM> its not the case nowadays
2019-11-05T06:05:01 < R2COM> seems like it can do it
2019-11-05T06:05:08 < R2COM> but i never remember Kicad making me rage or mad
2019-11-05T06:06:09 < R2COM> <dongs> thier ui hasnt been updated for decades
2019-11-05T06:06:19 < R2COM> the cadence IC UI is worse than Win3.1
2019-11-05T06:06:19 < jadew> the only recent complaints I had with it was that it doesn't have rounded corners and no colored nets
2019-11-05T06:06:34 < R2COM> rounded corners?
2019-11-05T06:06:36 < dongs> R2PRO of course it is, because it runs on lunix
2019-11-05T06:06:41 < jadew> sorry, rounded traces
2019-11-05T06:06:55 < R2COM> i havent used rounded traces for long
2019-11-05T06:07:11 < jadew> I needed them a couple of days ago
2019-11-05T06:07:16 < R2COM> but diff length matched traces are rounded, so if it can do it why cant it do regular rounded
2019-11-05T06:07:21 < R2COM> for what
2019-11-05T06:07:35 < jadew> R2COM, tight RF traces
2019-11-05T06:08:19 < jadew> I wanted something like an oblique trace with a little bend in it
2019-11-05T06:08:38 -!- TheSeven [~quassel@rockbox/developer/TheSeven] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds]
2019-11-05T06:08:44 < R2COM> but you are a programmer, so go into their sores, and contribute
2019-11-05T06:08:47 < jadew> and there wasn't enough room to do other stuff
2019-11-05T06:08:47 < R2COM> make it work
2019-11-05T06:09:01 < jadew> I would, but I don't have the time
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2019-11-05T06:09:08 < jadew> I don't want to get sucked into it right now
2019-11-05T06:09:42 < R2COM> https://forum.kicad.info/t/status-on-curved-smooth-corners-in-traces/12287/4
2019-11-05T06:09:48 < R2COM> this page talks about it
2019-11-05T06:10:51 < jadew> someone implemented it, but it didn't make it into the tree, because they implemented it for the legacy canvas
2019-11-05T06:11:36 < R2COM> i also dont know how fast is kicad on routing
2019-11-05T06:11:45 < R2COM> for example for congested boiard, if i press on trace
2019-11-05T06:11:53 < R2COM> and move cursor behind many stuff
2019-11-05T06:12:01 < R2COM> does it offer the good route relatively quickly?
2019-11-05T06:12:01 < jadew> it has push and shove
2019-11-05T06:12:07 < R2COM> no
2019-11-05T06:12:08 < R2COM> lol
2019-11-05T06:12:13 < R2COM> im not talking about it
2019-11-05T06:12:18 < R2COM> im talking about smart routing
2019-11-05T06:12:20 < jadew> ah, I think I know what you mean
2019-11-05T06:12:41 < jadew> I think it does, but I have all those features disabled
2019-11-05T06:12:59 < jadew> let me check
2019-11-05T06:13:27 < R2COM> so on a congested board, start trace on one end and move cursor on another end and see if it "offers" relatively OK path which will need minimum edits
2019-11-05T06:13:39 < R2COM> and what is the speed of it
2019-11-05T06:13:48 < jadew> ah
2019-11-05T06:13:53 < jadew> I don't think it does
2019-11-05T06:13:58 < R2COM> yep
2019-11-05T06:14:04 < R2COM> cadence soft does it
2019-11-05T06:14:20 < R2COM> altium does it too but slow as balls (last i checked in 2015, not sure about now)
2019-11-05T06:16:16 < R2COM> by the way altium if im correct nowadays costs $10k
2019-11-05T06:16:22 < R2COM> lol fucking retards
2019-11-05T06:21:59 < jadew> has anyone used those micro fans?
2019-11-05T06:23:04 < jadew> 1.5x1.5cm
2019-11-05T06:23:35 < jadew> I wonder how reliable they are
2019-11-05T06:27:22 < dongs> holy fucking shit.
2019-11-05T06:27:27 < dongs> lunix failure of the day
2019-11-05T06:27:50 < dongs> you know how #everyretardedlunixdistro these days forces you to use sudo for shit right
2019-11-05T06:28:06 < dongs> well apparently on centos7, removing vim-minimal to upgrade to you know, vim-less-shit
2019-11-05T06:28:09 < dongs> will also remove sudo
2019-11-05T06:28:20 < jadew> lol
2019-11-05T06:28:22 < dongs> amazing
2019-11-05T06:28:24 < dongs> absofuckinglutely amazing
2019-11-05T06:28:40 < dongs> good thing its a vm and i just wiped that shit
2019-11-05T06:28:40 < jadew> you might still be able to use su
2019-11-05T06:28:43 < dongs> no
2019-11-05T06:28:45 < jadew> su -c I think
2019-11-05T06:28:46 < dongs> root password isnt set
2019-11-05T06:28:52 < jadew> right
2019-11-05T06:29:03 < jadew> well, should have sudo passwd
2019-11-05T06:29:31 < jadew> I always login as root
2019-11-05T06:30:33 < jadew> I don't need to edit some config file and then realize I'm not root, so I can't save it
2019-11-05T06:31:30 < bitmask> whats the rule for cutting up large pads on the paste layer for like to-263, lfpak56, etc, what about the huge pads for power inductors, large diodes, even 1206 stuff looks huge compared to how ive seen things cut up
2019-11-05T06:31:46 < dongs> let chinks do it
2019-11-05T06:32:02 < jadew> bitmask, they're usually split into tiny squares
2019-11-05T06:32:11 < jadew> and yeah, china should do it too
2019-11-05T06:32:20 < bitmask> id like the know the rules though
2019-11-05T06:32:31 < dongs> IPC has the rules
2019-11-05T06:32:33 < bitmask> like how big is too big, does the component shape matter or what
2019-11-05T06:32:38 < bitmask> oh ok
2019-11-05T06:33:12 < jadew> there's probably a volume of paste you need for a given area
2019-11-05T06:33:32 < jadew> then you can calculate how much smaller the opening has to be, based on the stencil's height
2019-11-05T06:36:57 < dongs> anyway it was a newly isntalled vm so i jsut wiped that shit
2019-11-05T06:37:06 < dongs> first thing I noticed was vim was garbage and wanted to upgrade it
2019-11-05T06:37:40 < dongs> fuck lunix
2019-11-05T06:39:51 < Ultrasauce> obvious pebkac, removing deps for shit without looking and blaming the distro
2019-11-05T06:39:57 < dongs> ????
2019-11-05T06:40:01 < dongs> it AUTOMATICALLY DOES IT
2019-11-05T06:40:04 < dongs> it doesnt evne ask
2019-11-05T06:40:19 < dongs> yum remove vim-minimal = vim + sudo are gone
2019-11-05T06:40:21 < dongs> no questions asked.
2019-11-05T06:40:25 < dongs> lunix = retarded shitheap
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2019-11-05T06:45:01 < BrainDamage> you can fix it if you want, pass init=/bin/bash to the bootloader and you'll get a root shell
2019-11-05T06:45:09 < dongs> that worked in 2006
2019-11-05T06:45:12 < BrainDamage> you can change root password that way
2019-11-05T06:45:16 < dongs> yeah, that hasnt worked for years
2019-11-05T06:45:22 < BrainDamage> it still works in 2019?
2019-11-05T06:45:23 < dongs> wiht the bullshit PAM/whatever security password trash
2019-11-05T06:45:33 < dongs> no, you cant change passwdthat way
2019-11-05T06:45:36 < dongs> the init= shit works
2019-11-05T06:45:45 < BrainDamage> you can edit the password file
2019-11-05T06:45:48 < dongs> with what?
2019-11-05T06:45:51 < dongs> vim-minimal is gone
2019-11-05T06:45:57 < BrainDamage> a text editor, see if nano is there
2019-11-05T06:46:05 < BrainDamage> or even the console commands like sed, awk, etc
2019-11-05T06:46:06 < dongs> nope. i already wiped and reinstaleld vm anyway
2019-11-05T06:46:12 < BrainDamage> ok
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2019-11-05T06:46:25 < dongs> there was nothing other than vi (which was now removed
2019-11-05T06:46:50 < BrainDamage> it's incredibly stupid for them to not have sudo as explicit
2019-11-05T06:47:12 < BrainDamage> I guess it was installed as dep because sudoedit has vim as dep
2019-11-05T06:47:18 < dongs> sure
2019-11-05T06:47:30 < dongs> https://www.simplified.guide/redhat-centos/install-vim according to this, vim-minimal gets installed anyway
2019-11-05T06:47:35 < dongs> EVEN if you have full-sized vim
2019-11-05T06:47:46 < dongs> its fuckign retarded, linux users adn admins are beyond dumb
2019-11-05T06:47:50 < dongs> > And unfortunately, after you reinstall "sudo" by yum install sudo, "vim-minimal" will be installed as a dependency as well.
2019-11-05T06:48:06 < Ultrasauce> dumb enough to configure there system with zero editors?
2019-11-05T06:48:12 < dongs> yep
2019-11-05T06:48:36 < Ultrasauce> so it would seem
2019-11-05T06:48:37 < dongs> i wish i can figure out this retarded DVBAPI shit before end of today and I can wipe this vm too
2019-11-05T07:03:33 < R2COM> lunix talks
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2019-11-05T07:18:53 < R2COM> dongs go buy Escape from Tarkov for $140
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2019-11-05T07:31:12 < qyx> why were you even removing anything
2019-11-05T07:31:25 < qyx> as Ultrasauce says
2019-11-05T07:33:48 < qyx> lol removing vim-minimal to install vim
2019-11-05T07:34:49 < dongs> qyx, i mean, you'd think one would just superset another
2019-11-05T07:35:00 < dongs> this is just another of lunix idiocies that makes no sense to normal suers
2019-11-05T07:36:04 < qyx> it depemds on the distro
2019-11-05T07:36:45 < qyx> and fuk sudo, set the root password diring install
2019-11-05T07:37:07 < dongs> absolutely
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2019-11-05T07:37:23 < dongs> but the problem every retard is now expecting that to be available
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--- Log opened Tue Nov 05 07:48:55 2019
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2019-11-05T10:08:41 < jadew> R2COM, I was wrong, kicad does that
2019-11-05T10:08:57 < jadew> it automatically routes a single trace from one point to another
2019-11-05T10:09:03 < jadew> and avoids obstacles
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2019-11-05T11:27:13 < jadew> any tiny DC-DC modules that are as cheap as linear regulators?
2019-11-05T11:32:35 < qyx> nonisolated?
2019-11-05T11:32:54 < jadew> yeah
2019-11-05T11:33:39 < qyx> china maybe
2019-11-05T11:33:48 < qyx> I would not expect them to cost <0.50
2019-11-05T11:34:30 < jadew> $1-$3 is fine, but I don't want chinese
2019-11-05T11:34:45 < jadew> I was hoping for some solution from the likes of TI
2019-11-05T11:39:37 < qyx> https://power.murata.com/products/dc-dc-converters/single-output-non-isolated.html?product_list_order=output_power_total_w&product_list_dir=asc
2019-11-05T11:39:41 < qyx> thi smaybe?
2019-11-05T11:39:59 < jadew> that looks interesting
2019-11-05T11:40:01 < jadew> thanks
2019-11-05T11:40:26 < qyx> hahaha 9€ for the smallest one
2019-11-05T11:40:32 < qyx> I was about to say it should not be expnsive
2019-11-05T11:40:39 < qyx> as some isolated ones were ~5€
2019-11-05T11:40:59 < jadew> that's a bit high
2019-11-05T11:41:34 < qyx> https://www.mouser.sk/ProductDetail/Murata-Power-Solutions/OKL-T-1-W12N-C?qs=sGAEpiMZZMt6Q9lZSPl3RQeydCnDOsgARYBTVyB%2F1nU%3D
2019-11-05T11:42:02 < qyx> thats better, <3€
2019-11-05T11:42:20 < jadew> before tax, but yeah
2019-11-05T11:42:23 < jadew> that's very good
2019-11-05T11:42:56 < jadew> I'm gonna get a couple to try them out
2019-11-05T11:44:05 < jadew> how do you solder that stuff? by hand?
2019-11-05T11:44:41 < jadew> datasheet says it can be reflowed
2019-11-05T11:46:45 < qyx> I did not finish that pcb yet
2019-11-05T11:46:47 < qyx> :>
2019-11-05T11:48:15 < jadew> I was talking about the modules, but what PCB?
2019-11-05T11:49:02 < qyx> pcb which uses the modules
2019-11-05T11:49:09 < jadew> ah :)
2019-11-05T11:49:21 < jadew> thought we talked about something at some point and I forgot
2019-11-05T11:50:52 < jadew> the device in the datasheet looks nothing like the picture btw :P
2019-11-05T11:53:16 < jadew> I think the datasheet is for a different product
2019-11-05T11:53:37 < jadew> at 12x12 mm it's really small
2019-11-05T11:53:43 < jadew> I could give that a try
2019-11-05T12:00:11 < jadew> I've been watching some old boxing matches from the 60's and I get it why there had to be commentators - you couldn't see anything
2019-11-05T12:01:21 < jadew> saw maybe 10 fights so far and they keep talking about the cuts on the fighters' faces, but you never get to see those cuts
2019-11-05T12:01:47 < jadew> "the cheers of the crowd are deceiving, those shots didn't land"
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2019-11-05T14:50:17 < zyp> karlp, so I'm dicking around with some modbus shit now, got my ventilation system hooked up to a usb-rs485 adapter that I pointed pymodbus at, and this shit have me wondering, is there differing conventions on how the modbus register addrs are specified?
2019-11-05T14:51:22 < zyp> the addrs I feed into pymodbus seems to be off by one compared to the addrs in the register list for the system
2019-11-05T14:51:34 < karlp> checkout how awesome this is, totally reduce engineering costs..... just add this $60 bom item instead: https://www.digikey.com/en/product-highlight/m/molex/usb-20-hub
2019-11-05T14:51:54 < zyp> is this a common issue?
2019-11-05T14:52:32 < zyp> haha, eww
2019-11-05T14:56:50 < zyp> anyway, apart from the off by one issue, stuff seems to be working properly on the first try
2019-11-05T14:57:22 < qyx> I found that "issue" too
2019-11-05T14:57:36 < qyx> in mbpoll, there was a command line option to count from 0 or from 1
2019-11-05T14:58:02 < qyx> apparetnyl modbus is using two firsts
2019-11-05T14:58:30 < zyp> the usb-rs485-rj45 cables I ordered from aliexpress arrived today, so I just patched the cable I ran to the ventilation system the other day over to an outlet next to my workstation and plugged in there
2019-11-05T14:59:09 < zyp> got the pinout and polarity and everything right
2019-11-05T14:59:30 < karlp> zyp: "off by one" is "registers" vs "addresses" 
2019-11-05T14:59:35 < karlp> they're both right,a nd both wrong...
2019-11-05T14:59:59 < karlp> I prefer addresses (0 based) some tools and docs use "regsiter" (1 based)
2019-11-05T15:00:18 < karlp> and yeah, classic pain.
2019-11-05T15:00:26 < zyp> datasheet calls it «Modbus Adr.» though
2019-11-05T15:00:46 < karlp> doesn't mean they understood it though...
2019-11-05T15:00:54 < karlp> that's the other joy of modbus docs.
2019-11-05T15:01:01 < zyp> but ok, what's the sane way to deal with it? just subtract one from all the addrs I read from the datasheet?
2019-11-05T15:01:05 < karlp> that oculd have been translated five times by three people
2019-11-05T15:01:23 < karlp> yeah, just -1
2019-11-05T15:01:35 < karlp> some datasheets will hve two columns, one with 0 based and one with 1 based.
2019-11-05T15:01:41 < Steffanx> And what is the proper way to use strings? And floats and > 16 bit values?
2019-11-05T15:01:46  * karlp laughs
2019-11-05T15:02:13 < karlp> sometimes you'll see 30xxxx and 40xxxx as decimal, one based, and then hex numbers for 0 based,
2019-11-05T15:02:17 < karlp> but yeah, it's a fucking mess.
2019-11-05T15:02:22 < zyp> also input registers vs holding registers
2019-11-05T15:02:40 < karlp> different modbus function codes...
2019-11-05T15:02:47 < zyp> yeah, I saw
2019-11-05T15:02:55 < zyp> this thing dumps them both into the same address space though
2019-11-05T15:02:57 < karlp> originalyl intended to mean something, but .... not really a useful distinction these days.
2019-11-05T15:03:15 < karlp> offering them in both spaces is to help be more compatible with tools that expect one or the other
2019-11-05T15:03:32 < karlp> some scada shit things that inputs are read onyl, and holding are writeonly sort of thing.
2019-11-05T15:03:47 < karlp> same with read_register vs read_registerS.
2019-11-05T15:03:51 < karlp> different function codes again.
2019-11-05T15:03:59 < zyp> no, I mean datasheet says some are input and some are holding, and they are interleaved, number wise
2019-11-05T15:04:12 < karlp> welcome to modbus docs.
2019-11-05T15:04:16 < zyp> but apparently both read commands works on either
2019-11-05T15:04:26 < karlp> you can do a pretty good first go from the docs, but you normally need the actual hardware to be sure.
2019-11-05T15:04:42 < karlp> they might be labelling them like to imply read only vs writeable?
2019-11-05T15:04:47 < zyp> yes
2019-11-05T15:04:48 < karlp> what's teh part?
2019-11-05T15:05:08 < zyp> https://www.systemair.com/globalassets/documentation/86148.pdf?filename=88251-SAVE+Modbus+Variable+List+20190116+(Rev.+29).pdf
2019-11-05T15:06:12 < karlp> not bad docs as they go :)
2019-11-05T15:06:23 < karlp> kinda weird seeing them interleaved like that.
2019-11-05T15:06:37 < karlp> you can really think of the reigsterspace + function code as being the "full" address
2019-11-05T15:06:51 < karlp> they have no relation to one another beyond what the system designer decides to assign to them.
2019-11-05T15:06:51 < zyp> I think they just treat them as one register space and accept both reads on all addrs
2019-11-05T15:07:23 < karlp> well, do you actually get the same value for the input regs if you read them with "read holding regs" ?
2019-11-05T15:07:47 < zyp> idk, but I did the other way around and that worked
2019-11-05T15:08:33 < karlp> other way around? 
2019-11-05T15:08:46 < zyp> yeah, can read input regs with «read holding regs» too
2019-11-05T15:08:46 < karlp> reading holding regs with read input regs?
2019-11-05T15:08:51 < zyp> just tried
2019-11-05T15:08:57 < zyp> so either command works on either type
2019-11-05T15:09:07 < karlp> yeah, it's completely up to the implementor how they did the backend.
2019-11-05T15:09:21 < zyp> I would probably have done the same, kinda silly to separate them
2019-11-05T15:09:28 < karlp> you get a huge address space of <function|address> and can overlap it anyway you see fit.
2019-11-05T15:09:35 < zyp> yeah
2019-11-05T15:10:04 < karlp> we just use holding regs and just ignore writes to readonly regs.
2019-11-05T15:10:10 < karlp> that's also common. 
2019-11-05T15:10:27 < karlp> didn't see anyreason to get involved in "input" registers.
2019-11-05T15:10:34 < zyp> also, I assume I would have to keep polling stuff to monitor it? no way to subscribe to events/changes?
2019-11-05T15:10:40 < zyp> sounds sane
2019-11-05T15:10:41 < karlp> hahaha no :)
2019-11-05T15:10:56 < zyp> didn't think so :)
2019-11-05T15:10:57 < karlp> modbus is very strictly master/slave.
2019-11-05T15:11:08 < karlp> some of them will store event logs
2019-11-05T15:11:16 < karlp> that you can read out later, but not so common
2019-11-05T15:11:42 < zyp> I think if I end up making my own stm32-based thing to do modbus to usb, I can add some polling functionality to the mcu so the host doesn't have to bother
2019-11-05T15:12:05 < zyp> that way it'd also be a bit more useful than a plain usb-serial bridge
2019-11-05T15:12:34 < karlp> you can run off into endless rabbit holes that wya, but yes, you can definitely improve over "just poll everything all the time"
2019-11-05T15:13:03 < zyp> that's for a later time though
2019-11-05T15:13:17 < zyp> now I just wanna figure out what of this information is useful and throw that on mqtt
2019-11-05T15:13:19 < karlp> we built our shit to to have per device plugins run and read whatever they like all the time and just dump it to mqtt.  clients can then process that stream at their leisure.
2019-11-05T15:13:31 < zyp> :)
2019-11-05T15:14:02 < qyx> are we all doing the same?
2019-11-05T15:14:13 < zyp> possibly?
2019-11-05T15:14:13 < qyx> I did poll modbus to write to mqtt too
2019-11-05T15:14:57 < karlp> yeah, you asked for mine, but I can't give it you.  YOu can have all oru plugins though: http://packages.etactica.com/plugins/
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2019-11-05T15:16:44 < karlp> for all that pile of registers in that device of yours zyp it's offering _nothing_ to help autoprobe :(
2019-11-05T15:16:54 < zyp> hehe
2019-11-05T15:17:09 < zyp> most of the registers are uninteresting settings though
2019-11-05T15:17:19 < karlp> "smart" people put a few fixed constants and things at known addresses, for product id and detection purposes.
2019-11-05T15:18:00 < karlp> I've even seen some stuff that you just write a value to a register, and it byte swaps things as needed to make it "right for you" :)
2019-11-05T15:18:06 < zyp> fun
2019-11-05T15:18:07 < karlp> (though I think that's honestly just confusing)
2019-11-05T15:19:16 < karlp> see the seealso here for what steffan ws getting at https://libmodbus.org/docs/v3.1.6/modbus_get_float_abcd.html
2019-11-05T15:19:40 < zyp> yeah
2019-11-05T15:20:18 < karlp> you get the same problems with int32s as well.  will it be BE like modbus itself? will it be LE because someone just cast their internal table to the modbus buffer? who knows!
2019-11-05T15:20:58 < karlp> if the docs say "/1000" does that mean you need to divide by 1000 or have they done that and you need to multple by 1000? who knows!
2019-11-05T15:21:48 < karlp> anywya. you get the picture I think :)
2019-11-05T15:21:53 < zyp> I don't see anything about scale in my datasheet, but when the temperature sensors read respectively 45 and 192, I guess that's 4.5 and 19.2 degrees
2019-11-05T15:24:07 < karlp> presumably.  
2019-11-05T15:24:20 < karlp> at least you got docs, and didn't have to monitor some third party windows software :)
2019-11-05T15:24:43 < karlp> and you actually have the device to confirm with :)
2019-11-05T15:24:58 < zyp> I wish the heater had an on-time counter
2019-11-05T15:25:08 < zyp> so I could estimate power consumption :)
2019-11-05T15:25:26  * karlp has been meaning to build ontime counting into our stuff automatically for a while
2019-11-05T15:25:47 < karlp> already have the power consumption of course .)
2019-11-05T15:26:00 < zyp> I don't mean uptime
2019-11-05T15:26:19 < zyp> but the heater regulation seems to run a fairly short cycle, on just a few seconds at a time
2019-11-05T15:26:39 < zyp> so just polling state might not really give me a reasonable estimate
2019-11-05T15:26:48 < karlp> oh, I've been looking at providing things like "motor run hours"
2019-11-05T15:27:15  * karlp puts on the sales hat, "well, you need a proper power monitoring solution then....."
2019-11-05T15:27:32 < zyp> I'm still interested in buying your current sensors some time, but the ventilation system doesn't have a dedicated circuit
2019-11-05T15:27:42 < karlp> but yeah, they seem to have all the user UI options for timing shit, but none of the interesting system internals
2019-11-05T15:27:55 < karlp> didn't you just build this house?
2019-11-05T15:28:24 < zyp> sure
2019-11-05T15:28:28 < zyp> hmm, I might be wrong
2019-11-05T15:28:35 < zyp> but I think it's shared with some lights and stuff
2019-11-05T15:29:15 < zyp> IIRC the heater is only 1000W, and the fans and stuff doesn't use that much power, so it doesn't need a dedicated circuit
2019-11-05T15:29:53 < qyx> 1kW hvac heater in .no?
2019-11-05T15:30:23 < qyx> or you have some other means to heat your house too
2019-11-05T15:30:46 < qyx> even if it was superinsulated, 1kW is probably not enough
2019-11-05T15:30:51 < zyp> ah, actually, it's almost dedicated, only other thing on the same circuit is the outlet in the network closet
2019-11-05T15:31:19 < zyp> qyx, yeah, it's not meant to heat the house
2019-11-05T15:31:44 < qyx> inly a preheater in the recup unit?
2019-11-05T15:31:50 < zyp> yes
2019-11-05T15:31:56 < qyx> ah
2019-11-05T15:33:15 < zyp> well, more like post heater
2019-11-05T15:34:05 < zyp> intake air first runs through the heat exchanger to recup heat from exhaust air, then the electric heater to bring up the temperature enough to avoid cold drafts
2019-11-05T15:34:52 < zyp> main heating is electric floor heating in some of the floors
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2019-11-05T15:53:46 < Hamilton> Is there a 2cell Li-Po battery that outputs 12 volts? What is the standard procedure to feed 12V for Dynamixel servos out of Li-Po batteries?
2019-11-05T15:53:57 < Hamilton> external DC-DC convertor is necessary?
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2019-11-05T16:21:28 < kakipro> 2cell lipo that outputs 12volts wuuut
2019-11-05T16:23:22 < Hamilton> kakipro, 7.4V is standard, no?
2019-11-05T16:23:24 < kakipro> do you think they make battery cells with arbitrary voltages?
2019-11-05T16:23:38 < Hamilton> yeah I guess each cell is 3.7 V
2019-11-05T16:23:52 < kakipro> nominal yes
2019-11-05T16:23:56 < kakipro> can vary
2019-11-05T16:24:03 < Hamilton> So how can I feed 12V Dynamixels?
2019-11-05T16:25:42 < kakipro> 4cell lipo and step-down switching regulator
2019-11-05T16:26:00 < kakipro> in example
2019-11-05T16:26:21 < Hamilton> kakipro, Thing is, this Beaglebone blue has catched my eye. It supported a 2cell Li-Po battery charger on borad
2019-11-05T16:26:41 < kakipro> then step-up switching regulator
2019-11-05T16:27:10 < kakipro> what kind of charging?
2019-11-05T16:27:14 < kakipro> usb 0.5amps?
2019-11-05T16:27:41 < Hamilton> Then I'd be limited in choosing my motors. Dynamixel has XL320 which needs 7.4 Volts (just like nominal 2 cell). I think I could get away with lots of external hasstle
2019-11-05T16:27:57 < Hamilton> But the motor is pretty weak. MX series needs 12V but is stronger
2019-11-05T16:28:36 < kakipro> designing stuff is all about compromises
2019-11-05T16:29:30 < Hamilton> Is it okay if I use a step up on output of the Li-Po to reach '12volt' ish? But then again, we are talking motors. Current draw should also be considered. Wouldn't step-up DC2DC mess with inrush current and stuff?
2019-11-05T16:30:53 < kakipro> inrush current in what exact context?
2019-11-05T16:31:42 < kakipro> connecting the battery?
2019-11-05T16:31:48 < kakipro> turning on the regulator?
2019-11-05T16:32:43 < kakipro> I mean the switching regulator takes all the power that motor takes
2019-11-05T16:35:58 < kakipro> it has pretty little to do with what the load is
2019-11-05T16:35:58 < Hamilton> kakipro, That Dynamixel is a black box for me. It has all kinds of gears/sensors/magnetics in a package. Who knows what kind of current profile we're gonna see in running it in a typical application. By inrush I meant the phenomenon that motors generally take lots of current at startup
2019-11-05T16:36:29 < kakipro> arent those servos?
2019-11-05T16:36:34 < Hamilton> yeah 
2019-11-05T16:36:52 < kakipro> current is then linear to torque
2019-11-05T16:37:10 < veverak> Hamilton: why do you need higher voltage?
2019-11-05T16:37:14 < kakipro> the motor inside that servo is tiny
2019-11-05T16:37:39 < Hamilton> veverak, to be able to use MX series which needs 11.1 to 12 volts
2019-11-05T16:39:08 < kakipro> of course if you request it to step from 0 to full speed it will have current spike using 7.4volt servo doesn't change that fact
2019-11-05T16:39:54 < kakipro> or if you lock the output shaft in place and request full torque
2019-11-05T16:40:04 < Hamilton> kakipro, But since it doesn't contain intermediary step-ups, max current  would be dictated by Li-Po tech itself?
2019-11-05T16:40:27 < kakipro> yes
2019-11-05T16:40:40 < Hamilton> So 7.4 solution would have an inherent advantage
2019-11-05T16:40:47 < kakipro> no
2019-11-05T16:41:20 < Hamilton> The main question is, do off-the-shelf step-ups, limit surge current draws?
2019-11-05T16:41:27 < kakipro> yes
2019-11-05T16:41:56 < kakipro> unless you can find some really shitty one
2019-11-05T16:42:07 < veverak> Hamilton: 10V actually
2019-11-05T16:42:16 < veverak> hmm, I thought they can work with 7.4 :/
2019-11-05T16:42:49 < Hamilton> veverak, Yes, the table suggests min 10v
2019-11-05T16:42:50 < Hamilton> http://en.robotis.com/service/selection_guide.php
2019-11-05T16:43:15 < Hamilton> When they say, min, I thought all bets are off if we go lower than that
2019-11-05T16:44:40 < kakipro> if it works at lower voltage you will see more than marginal decrease in performance compared to full voltage
2019-11-05T16:45:00 < veverak> yup
2019-11-05T16:47:25 < kakipro> Hamilton: if you select converter with higher output current that your load total the battery will be the restriction
2019-11-05T16:48:08 < Hamilton> kakipro, yep. I guess I'm gonna this way.
2019-11-05T16:48:23 < kakipro> but you should select the battery to outperform your motors anyway?
2019-11-05T16:48:43 < Hamilton> Any general comments about Beaglebone Blue? It seems nice but the lack of miniHDMI is a bummer. I shall SSH into it
2019-11-05T16:49:16 < Hamilton> I mean with Black I still need to ssh but at least there is an external monitor
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2019-11-05T17:57:33 < Laurenceb_> >Beaglebone
2019-11-05T17:57:36 < Laurenceb_> oh dear
2019-11-05T17:58:35 < Laurenceb_> wonder if they fixed the pmic, rtc,shutdown/boot, supply rail voltages, emmc supply rails etc this time
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2019-11-05T18:13:13 < qyx> Hamilton: I am using a TPS61088 to get 12V from a dual series Li-Ion
2019-11-05T18:27:15 < Laurenceb_> also
2019-11-05T18:27:23 < Laurenceb_> >embedded lunix
2019-11-05T18:27:45 < Laurenceb_> space runway is cancelled
2019-11-05T18:27:52 < Laurenceb_> its all over
2019-11-05T18:28:09 -!- Hamilton [~Hamilton@unaffiliated/hamilton] has quit [Quit: Leaving]
2019-11-05T18:28:24 < Laurenceb_> >rejected for series 1 funding because the TRL is _too high_
2019-11-05T18:28:34 < Laurenceb_> my orbital space runway sides
2019-11-05T18:29:52 < Cracki> not enough venture to venture throwing capital at it?
2019-11-05T18:30:46 < Laurenceb_> dunno, nasaspaceflight forum crew are obsessed with grant funding
2019-11-05T18:31:12 < Laurenceb_> its only research work, nobody commercial is going to fund it any time soon
2019-11-05T18:31:48 < Laurenceb_> >carefully word application to show how high the TRL is
2019-11-05T18:31:58 < Laurenceb_> >rejected because TRL is too high
2019-11-05T18:32:51 < Cracki> reapply
2019-11-05T18:33:10 < Cracki> -.- pothead neighbor is smoking her brains out again
2019-11-05T18:33:28 < Laurenceb_> yeah thats the plan atm, only to talk behind the scenes to get it to actually get approved
2019-11-05T18:33:30 < englishman> imx6
2019-11-05T18:33:43 < englishman> >ONOFF signal for acpi support.
2019-11-05T18:33:51 < englishman> >Not supported.
2019-11-05T18:34:12 < Laurenceb_> beaglebone tier
2019-11-05T18:35:35 < Laurenceb_> >when you have to wait for lunix to boot before your control system starts operating
2019-11-05T18:35:54 < mawk> beaglebone is magnificient
2019-11-05T18:36:10 < Laurenceb_> >when you get run over by a self driving car because apt-update broke something
2019-11-05T18:36:24 < Laurenceb_> >when you get run over by a self driving car because logfiles broke the emmc
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2019-11-05T18:36:29 < mawk> lol
2019-11-05T18:36:30 < Laurenceb_> ^actually happened
2019-11-05T18:36:37 < englishman> sounds like comma.ai
2019-11-05T18:36:42 < Laurenceb_> lol
2019-11-05T18:36:50 < Laurenceb_>  "security by statistics"
2019-11-05T18:37:23 < mawk> what's trl
2019-11-05T18:37:29 < Laurenceb_>  "we dont have to do anything to prove our cars are safe, just let them loose and find out"
2019-11-05T18:37:31 < Cracki> yuck I tried cheese and onion chips today. I was unable to imagine the awful taste.
2019-11-05T18:37:38 < Laurenceb_> technology readyness level
2019-11-05T18:38:10 < Cracki> uh... control system boots?
2019-11-05T18:38:34 < Cracki> if it doesn't boot in less than human reaction time, it's gonna kill someone
2019-11-05T18:38:35 < Laurenceb_> yes, nazi boots
2019-11-05T18:38:45 < Cracki> don't badmouth the nazis
2019-11-05T18:38:57 < Laurenceb_> kek
2019-11-05T18:39:05 < Laurenceb_> triggered
2019-11-05T18:39:07 < Cracki> their boots are still unsurpassed by any contemporary shoe making technology
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2019-11-05T18:41:05 < Laurenceb_> http://www.sciencemadness.org/talk/files.php?pid=407653&aid=40511
2019-11-05T18:41:15 < Laurenceb_> tfw no reactor toilet
2019-11-05T18:41:41 < Cracki> are there nuclear reactors that run on shit?
2019-11-05T18:41:46 < Laurenceb_> lol
2019-11-05T18:42:00 < Laurenceb_> maybe that is one
2019-11-05T18:42:05 < Cracki> or do you want to take the cows' jobs and make bio gas from human shit?
2019-11-05T18:42:37 < Cracki> there are those that would kill all cows because earth is doomed within the next 5-10 years unless we kill all cows
2019-11-05T18:43:31 < Cracki> uh... fermented human metabolic waste is used to make narcotics in some parts of the world
2019-11-05T18:43:58 < Cracki> they piss in bottles and huff it (no, not talking about basement-dwelling neckbeards, they only eat their toe nails)
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2019-11-05T18:44:26 < Cracki> in unrelated news, boss is now ready to make some videos of his products. curious how that'll go.
2019-11-05T18:44:28 < Laurenceb_> don't badmouth RMS
2019-11-05T18:45:22 < Cracki> I know people who have a driver's license and they still eat...
2019-11-05T18:45:34 < bitmask> should I use tvs, ptc, and/or general diodes for a usb phone charger?
2019-11-05T18:45:50 < Cracki> are you the charger or the chargee?
2019-11-05T18:45:54 < bitmask> charger
2019-11-05T18:46:04 < Cracki> I'd consider overcurrent protection and that's it
2019-11-05T18:46:15 < Cracki> certainly mains-side overvoltage protection
2019-11-05T18:46:30 < Cracki> unless the electronics fail gracefully (i.e. HCF without spiking the 5v side)
2019-11-05T18:46:52 < bitmask> its 12v battery to 5v switcher
2019-11-05T18:47:05 < bitmask> but yea I dont want 12v on the usb
2019-11-05T18:47:20 < Cracki> is anything gonna charge the 12v batt while the stepdown is active?
2019-11-05T18:47:22 < Streaker> Crowbars solve all problems.
2019-11-05T18:47:33 < Cracki> oh how I wish they did
2019-11-05T18:47:55 < Cracki> but once you start, you have to crowbar all the things and that's a lot of work
2019-11-05T18:48:03 < bitmask> no that battery wont be connected when charging
2019-11-05T18:48:11 < Cracki> sounds very tame
2019-11-05T18:48:17 < Cracki> in what ways can the stepdown fail?
2019-11-05T18:48:25 < bitmask> dunno
2019-11-05T18:48:32 < Cracki> from what I see in macbooks, the stepdown can send unmitigated Vin to output
2019-11-05T18:48:40 < Cracki> because some mosfet gate got stuck
2019-11-05T18:48:52 < Cracki> or driving line got corroded or whatever
2019-11-05T18:49:17 < bitmask> what if I want to be able to charge it while its on?
2019-11-05T18:49:41 < Cracki> maybe put a diode that clamps voltage to 5.x volts, and a fuse that interrupts in that situation
2019-11-05T18:50:07 < Cracki> then you'd need to consider what voltage the 12v side may see. car battery gets 13-14 or more volts I think?
2019-11-05T18:50:21 < bitmask> yea up to like 14.4
2019-11-05T18:50:28 < Cracki> and that can spike
2019-11-05T18:50:41 < bitmask> when the alternator kicks in
2019-11-05T18:51:31 < Streaker> Car batteries get a lot more than that.
2019-11-05T18:51:46 < bitmask> how so
2019-11-05T18:51:59 < Cracki> "cheap" car chargers for iphones commonly die and kill your iphone because of the relatively unclean 12v supply
2019-11-05T18:51:59 < BrainDamage> you need to handle spikes up to 50V
2019-11-05T18:52:27 < bitmask> how do you handle spikes? input caps?
2019-11-05T18:52:33 < Cracki> input coils
2019-11-05T18:52:36 < bitmask> oh right
2019-11-05T18:53:01 < BrainDamage> because the car power rail is incredibly unclean from the spark plugs or the solenoid controls
2019-11-05T18:53:04 < bitmask> oh wait, coils have slow change in current and caps voltage I thought
2019-11-05T18:53:12 < Cracki> right
2019-11-05T18:53:13 < BrainDamage> that is correct
2019-11-05T18:53:29 < Cracki> but if it's just a cap on the input, with no throttling (R/L) it'll charge up quick
2019-11-05T18:53:36 < Laurenceb_> ree still no 3950X for sale
2019-11-05T18:53:38 < bitmask> k
2019-11-05T18:53:54  * Laurenceb_ wants to build his 128GB epin workstation
2019-11-05T18:54:03 < bitmask> so it would be C + R/L
2019-11-05T18:54:14 < Cracki> a simple coil will keep current flowing smoothly, so no voltage spike can bother you
2019-11-05T18:54:49 < Cracki> just L in series should be good, maybe buffer it with a cap
2019-11-05T18:54:55 < bitmask> ok
2019-11-05T18:55:00 < BrainDamage> pi filter
2019-11-05T18:55:22 < bitmask> what about output to usb, I'm guessing you want to buffer that with a decent sized cap?
2019-11-05T18:55:44 < Cracki> not too decent sized or else it may give you large "outrush" current
2019-11-05T18:56:26 < bitmask> well I may get one of those usb protection ics that do current control just to be safe
2019-11-05T18:57:18 < bitmask> man this is the hard part, not sure what to do with all this protection stuff
2019-11-05T18:57:51 < bitmask> I want to add at least 2 fuses but not sure where to put em
2019-11-05T18:58:06 < bitmask> one for 12v input and one for 5v smps
2019-11-05T18:58:22 < Cracki> I'd hunt for app notes
2019-11-05T18:58:33 < Cracki> they want you to use their stuff so they'll say how to use it
2019-11-05T18:58:40 < bitmask> yea I do have like 10 tabs open to read through on usb charging
2019-11-05T18:59:08 < Cracki> either a protection ic is absolutely enough, or they'll say what else you should use with it (or else they get blamed for not doing it inside the ic already)
2019-11-05T19:00:54 < bitmask> who makes good protection ics, I was thinking of looking at nexperia's line because im using their power mosfets as they were recommended
2019-11-05T19:00:57 < bitmask> probably doesnt matter though
2019-11-05T19:07:33 < Laurenceb_> why are you making usb chargers when u can get them from china?
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2019-11-05T19:09:41 < bitmask> I just wanted it part of my project
2019-11-05T19:10:00 < bitmask> without a separate module
2019-11-05T19:10:07 < bitmask> and wanted to learn some of this shit anyway
2019-11-05T19:10:10 < Laurenceb_> fair enough
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2019-11-05T19:17:07 < englishman> lool Laurenceb_ get the fuck out
2019-11-05T19:17:17 < englishman> why would you buy that inferior trash
2019-11-05T19:17:28 < Laurenceb_> 3950X  ?
2019-11-05T19:17:37 < englishman> is your house cold and you need to heat it in the least efficient way possible?
2019-11-05T19:17:40 < Laurenceb_> muh flops
2019-11-05T19:17:46 < Laurenceb_> oh noes 105W
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2019-11-05T19:18:03 < Laurenceb_> cheaper than xeon
2019-11-05T19:19:15 < Laurenceb_> I want lots of flops and lots of ram for simulations
2019-11-05T19:23:33 < Cracki> do you need double precision?
2019-11-05T19:24:31 < Cracki> I'd go for a gpu, or outgrowth of a gpu if you absolutely need doubles
2019-11-05T19:25:23 < Cracki> also evaluate the difference avx512 makes
2019-11-05T19:25:29 < bitmask> should I add a diode on the smps output and route the feedback pin after it? they don't use a diode in the datasheet
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2019-11-05T19:25:35 < Cracki> (if you go with cpu: intel/amd)
2019-11-05T19:26:29 < Cracki> when you take feedback from after the diode, it's controlled away, but may also confuse the controller
2019-11-05T19:26:52 < Cracki> hm, scratch the second part
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2019-11-05T19:27:19 < Cracki> at most the controller _might_ try for a voltage the diode won't let it achieve, and then you'd get overcurrent
2019-11-05T19:27:28 < bitmask> yea that was my point, is it worth adding? Im thinking I want it, ive had buck converters reverse power themselves when programming and stuff
2019-11-05T19:28:02 < Cracki> not entirely sure of the situation, but a clamping diode (or similar protection) sounds like a good idea in general
2019-11-05T19:28:58 < bitmask> I just wasnt sure it was ok to have 5v on the output with no vin, like when applying 5v from an external source when programming
2019-11-05T19:29:01 < Cracki> ah right, the series diode... hm yeah why not, unless it has that inside itself already
2019-11-05T19:29:15 < bitmask> oh good point, i'll check that
2019-11-05T19:29:27 < Cracki> the stepdown's sheet should say what happens when vout is powered but vin is unpowered
2019-11-05T19:30:57 < bitmask> yea i dont see a diode
2019-11-05T19:31:00 < Cracki> there should be a schematic where you want to look for the L and the fet that switches
2019-11-05T19:31:17 < Cracki> that would help figuring out what it does when it's unpowered but getting voltage into vout
2019-11-05T19:31:45 < Cracki> the diode may be the implicit body diode of the mosfet, if there is one
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2019-11-05T19:32:57 < bitmask> ok there is a diode on Vin
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2019-11-05T20:52:10 < Laurenceb_> wew king of random killed himself
2019-11-05T20:52:15 < Laurenceb_> never saw that one coming
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2019-11-05T21:27:48 < Steffanx> Daamn Laurenceb_ that was months ago
2019-11-05T21:27:56 < Steffanx> Are you that outdated?
2019-11-05T21:31:50 < kakipro> wasn't it an accident?
2019-11-05T21:32:02 < Steffanx> afaik, yes
2019-11-05T21:32:12 < Steffanx> but he did it himself, .. by going paragliding or something
2019-11-05T21:32:41 < kakipro> bad weather and something
2019-11-05T21:32:51 < kakipro> and yes paragliding
2019-11-05T21:32:57 < kakipro> equals dying
2019-11-05T21:33:47 < Steffanx> affirmative.
2019-11-05T21:39:04 < zyp> who?
2019-11-05T21:41:46 < Steffanx> some youtuber guy.
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2019-11-05T21:44:21 < catphish> i think i might have recommended the stm32l433 too much, nearly no stock anywhere now
2019-11-05T21:45:05 < Steffanx> Whats so special about it than you use it? You dont do low power stuff do you?
2019-11-05T21:45:09 < zyp> I've found out I might not have to make my own zigbee switches after all, existing shit is more flexible than I realized
2019-11-05T21:45:57 < zyp> picked up a conbee today, so now I'm playing around with deconz
2019-11-05T21:46:58 < zyp> interface is terrible, but it lets me get at a bunch of lowlevel stuff
2019-11-05T21:47:07 < Steffanx> but that requires some usb drive/rpi/whatever?
2019-11-05T21:47:40 < Steffanx> i mean, usb stick thingy
2019-11-05T21:47:41 < Steffanx> not drive.
2019-11-05T21:48:01 < Steffanx> I thought you wanted to avoid that and just have "bare"  switches.
2019-11-05T21:50:55 < zyp> I absolutely wanna have some sort of gateway, but I also wanna have communication directly between switches and lights, so shit works if gateway dies
2019-11-05T21:51:02 < zyp> and that totally works
2019-11-05T21:51:03 < Steffanx> oh deconz can use the bare tradfri switches, that's cool
2019-11-05T21:51:33 < zyp> yeah, I can have them both trigger shit via software and control lamps directly
2019-11-05T21:52:15 < zyp> so anyway, that means that common switches are able to do what I want, which means that I probably don't need to make my own
2019-11-05T21:52:31 < kakipro> hello
2019-11-05T21:52:32 < zyp> can probably just pick up some off the shelf ones in the form factor I want
2019-11-05T21:53:51 < kakipro> Steffanx: incredibly photogenic youtuber gui also smart
2019-11-05T21:53:53 < Steffanx> Random switches will suddenly magically work with tradfri bulbs even when your gateway is down? Otherwise I'm not sure what you mean by "so shit works if gateway dies".
2019-11-05T21:54:05 < zyp> exactly
2019-11-05T21:54:26 < kakipro> do I want to make diesel generator controller project?
2019-11-05T21:54:41 < zyp> Steffanx, they just need to have matching group configurations
2019-11-05T21:54:46 < zyp> and deconz can do that
2019-11-05T21:54:58 < Steffanx> ah, then its very cool indeed.
2019-11-05T21:55:06 < Steffanx> tempted to look into that as well now :P
2019-11-05T21:55:27 < catphish> Steffanx: there's nothing special about it, apart from the fact that it happens to be the cheapest, most widely available part that met my requirement, i know stm32l are supposed to be power optimized, but to me they seem pretty winning for performance and value too
2019-11-05T21:55:46 < catphish> i think the l412 might also work, but that seems even less available :)
2019-11-05T21:55:57 < zyp> the deconz software still seems kinda shit though, so I might still make my own zigbee gateway at some point :p
2019-11-05T21:56:21 < catphish> i've been back over this a million times, ST's most generic multi-purpose MCU should work for this, but i don't know what that chip is, if not this one
2019-11-05T21:57:10 < catphish> i need a clock that will run at 80MHz, or a higher multiple of 40MHz, USB FS with DFU ROM, and... that's pretty much it
2019-11-05T21:57:28 < catphish> oh and really, if at all possible, a 32 bit timer
2019-11-05T21:58:03 < catphish> is there a current-gen "general purpose" chip that is cheaper than the l4, if so, link me up
2019-11-05T21:58:36 < zyp> f401? although it probably wouldn't work for your particular project
2019-11-05T21:58:59 < srk> that's more like previous-gen 
2019-11-05T21:59:49 < catphish> i thnk the main problem is my 40MHz clock requirement
2019-11-05T21:59:55 < zyp> yes
2019-11-05T22:00:12 < qyx> why?
2019-11-05T22:00:16 < zyp> it'd be hard to derive both 48MHz for usb and 40MHz from the same PLL
2019-11-05T22:00:45 < catphish> most general purpose chips run at 72MHz, plus one needs 48MHz for USB, and 40MHz for the timer
2019-11-05T22:00:52 < qyx> some of the newer ones have multiple plls, caouln't be that an option?
2019-11-05T22:00:58 < zyp> yes
2019-11-05T22:01:01 < catphish> the l433 has magic, it clocks the USB from the host, and runs at 80MHz
2019-11-05T22:01:20 < qyx> g4 then!
2019-11-05T22:01:23 < qyx> 160MHz, usb
2019-11-05T22:01:24 < zyp> the l433 has a separate HSI48 that generates the usb clock
2019-11-05T22:01:38 < catphish> zyp: right
2019-11-05T22:01:53 < zyp> but yeah, another PLL from the same crystal would work
2019-11-05T22:02:17 < catphish> another benefit, is 100% crystal-less
2019-11-05T22:02:27 < catphish> not a big deal, but keeps layout and bom simple
2019-11-05T22:02:59 < catphish> the g4 does look nice though
2019-11-05T22:03:10 < catphish> i don't think that existed when i started this design
2019-11-05T22:03:19 < kakipro> zyp: where to connect unused MII pins when using RMII?
2019-11-05T22:03:21 < zyp> actually, f407 would do just fine
2019-11-05T22:03:32 < kakipro> datasheet says pretty much none
2019-11-05T22:03:40 < qyx> g4 is also cheaper than both L4 and F4
2019-11-05T22:03:50 < zyp> configure PLL to 240 MHz, /3 for 80MHz sysclock and /5 for 48MHz USB
2019-11-05T22:03:56 < Steffanx> F446 is also pretty cheap. At least the ST prices are pretty low.
2019-11-05T22:04:02 < zyp> or you might just as well run 120 MHz sysclock
2019-11-05T22:04:02 < qyx> kakipro: don§t map them to AF
2019-11-05T22:04:06 < Steffanx> but ST prices are unfair prices.
2019-11-05T22:04:17 < Steffanx> *unrealistic
2019-11-05T22:04:59 < Steffanx> § is that a common character in .sk?
2019-11-05T22:05:15 < catphish> f407 is like 3x the price of a l433
2019-11-05T22:05:29 < Steffanx> which l433 is it?
2019-11-05T22:05:37 < catphish> l433cbt6
2019-11-05T22:05:42 < zyp> don't remember pll limits of f401, could probably also do it
2019-11-05T22:07:10 < catphish> or i guess l433cbu6 (same thing, no legs)
2019-11-05T22:08:27 < Steffanx> STM32G431CBT6 mouser price beats the L433 price ( by a tiny tiny bit)
2019-11-05T22:08:36 < Steffanx> not sure feature wise, but surely newer
2019-11-05T22:09:22 < catphish> yep, g4 is attractive, will have to examine details more
2019-11-05T22:15:12 < catphish> there's also the STM32L412CBT6 which is even cheaper, and near enough identical
2019-11-05T22:15:16 < doomba> all of the g-strings are attractive. i just wish some of the lower end ones had usb.
2019-11-05T22:16:35 < kakipro> zyp: AF?
2019-11-05T22:16:46 < zyp> hmm?
2019-11-05T22:17:05 < kakipro> kakipro: don§t map them to AF
2019-11-05T22:17:24 < catphish> ayway, i'm sure this is a dull conversation, in any case i hope there's more of the L4 in the marketplace soon
2019-11-05T22:18:05 < Steffanx> farnell, digikey, mouser alll out of l433s?
2019-11-05T22:19:14 < catphish> yep
2019-11-05T22:19:29 < catphish> i ordered from farnell a few days ago an got some, but there's no more now
2019-11-05T22:21:18 < catphish> another benefit to the l433 is that jlcpcb will assemble it for small run assembly (it's in their catalog), but they're also out of stock, as is lcsc for general china ordering
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2019-11-05T22:21:49 < Steffanx> arrow has 6 left, gogogogoog :P
2019-11-05T22:21:55 < catphish> lol
2019-11-05T22:21:59 < Steffanx> oh, ships in 4 days, might be a scam
2019-11-05T22:22:02 < Steffanx> ask englishman about it
2019-11-05T22:22:05 < catphish> i've got enough in my house for prototyping anyway
2019-11-05T22:22:14 < catphish> but i want a china production run soon
2019-11-05T22:22:42 < catphish> i'l wait :)
2019-11-05T22:26:35 < Steffanx> no you wont
2019-11-05T22:32:20 < catphish> yes i will :)
2019-11-05T22:33:43 < catphish> because no matter how impatient i am, i'm not redesigning to avoid stupid stock shortage
2019-11-05T22:34:12 < kakipro> are you ordering your board from china assembled?
2019-11-05T22:37:57 < kakipro> what does AF mean? "do not map them to AF"?
2019-11-05T22:38:30 < kakipro> as fuck?
2019-11-05T22:38:41 < zyp> yes
2019-11-05T22:39:37 < kakipro> is that even proper sentence
2019-11-05T22:43:26 < jpa-> (alternate function)
2019-11-05T22:43:33 < Steffanx> trolled.
2019-11-05T22:49:40 < kakipro> so
2019-11-05T22:50:03 < Steffanx> very much so, yes
2019-11-05T22:50:15 < kakipro> I should have had defined that I mean PHY pins
2019-11-05T22:52:03 < kakipro> I have no plan to connect them to MAC
2019-11-05T22:52:13 < kakipro> unless gpio output from PHY
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2019-11-05T22:56:14 < Steffanx> there's you mac, kakipro. Maybe he knows all about his phy
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2019-11-05T22:57:57 < kakipro> what do you do with unused phy pins?
2019-11-05T22:58:23 < zyp> nothing?
2019-11-05T22:58:32 < kakipro> floating is ok?
2019-11-05T22:58:47 < zyp> what does the datasheet say?
2019-11-05T22:58:52 < kakipro> nothing
2019-11-05T23:04:34 < jpa-> what phy input pin do you have unused?
2019-11-05T23:05:29 < kakipro> actually
2019-11-05T23:05:37 < kakipro> all of them are bootstrap operation
2019-11-05T23:05:48 < kakipro> so those cannot be bind to anything
2019-11-05T23:06:10 < kakipro> and outputs you leave floating
2019-11-05T23:06:18 < kakipro> thanks jpa
2019-11-05T23:06:26 < kakipro> *bound to anything
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2019-11-05T23:34:22 < catphish> kakipro: sorry, wandered off, yes i want to order assembled boards from china (or wherever can provide good value)
2019-11-05T23:34:46 < kakipro> for your own use?
2019-11-05T23:35:00 < catphish> no, people do that?
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2019-11-05T23:35:30 < catphish> for small batch sale to hobbyists
2019-11-05T23:38:00 < kakipro> what is it?
2019-11-05T23:38:19 < catphish> i'm not confident enough for anything large scale, and frankly, i'm hoping to avoid most regulatory requirements by shipping part-assembled board with through hole parts unsoldered
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2019-11-05T23:38:34 < catphish> a usb floppy drive controller
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2019-11-05T23:40:18 < catphish> like so https://i.imgur.com/TpOQICV.png or https://i.imgur.com/x06nv5x.jpg?1
2019-11-05T23:40:31 < catphish> hence the need for professional assembly :)
2019-11-05T23:41:18 < catphish> floppy drive one side, disk images the other side :)
2019-11-05T23:43:06 < kakipro> do floppy drives talk in 3v3?
2019-11-05T23:44:57 < catphish> nope
2019-11-05T23:45:38 < catphish> but as luck would have it, they have 5v pullups in the drive :)
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2019-11-05T23:49:42 < kakipro> is it standard?
2019-11-05T23:59:11 < catphish> that's a good question, i never questioned it
2019-11-05T23:59:13 < qyx> AL17050 great
2019-11-05T23:59:18 < qyx> 400V buck converter
--- Day changed Wed Nov 06 2019
2019-11-06T00:02:14 < catphish> kakipro: i don't know where i'd even find a standard, but what i've read talks about the pullups in the drive
2019-11-06T00:04:07 < catphish> in the hymn "hark the herald angels sing", does the line "Pleased as man with man to dwell" mean what i think it means? ;)
2019-11-06T00:04:49 < kakipro> lack of components is supicious
2019-11-06T00:05:01 < kakipro> just a few caps
2019-11-06T00:05:12 < catphish> kakipro: it's magical isn't it
2019-11-06T00:05:39 < kakipro> https://www.msx.org/sites/default/files/news/2012/10/kryoflux.jpg
2019-11-06T00:05:43 < catphish> there's actually just one component that's probably "missing" which is a USB ESD protection chip
2019-11-06T00:06:01 < kakipro> line buffers and shiet
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2019-11-06T00:07:23 < catphish> the line drivers are the main difference
2019-11-06T00:07:34 < catphish> they may be needed for some older types of drive
2019-11-06T00:08:04 < catphish> that board has a 12 power input, so i imagine it's designed to work with much more primative drives than mine
2019-11-06T00:08:07 < catphish> *12v
2019-11-06T00:08:20 < kakipro> so communications are performed with all 5v tolerant pins?
2019-11-06T00:10:05 < catphish> yes, 5v tolerant pins in open collector mode
2019-11-06T00:11:40 < kakipro> have you calculated or estimated ground current
2019-11-06T00:12:20 < catphish> i have not, why?
2019-11-06T00:12:26 < kakipro> well it should be anywhere close exceeding but what size of pullups are used in old shiet anyways
2019-11-06T00:13:11 < kakipro> ground pins of MCU have maximum total current
2019-11-06T00:13:13 < catphish> oh i see, i think i did briefly look at that, but i should check
2019-11-06T00:13:52 < catphish> if i'm sinking several IO pins with pullups, i should check how much i'm sinking, you're right
2019-11-06T00:14:38 < catphish> this page claims they have 2k https://hackaday.io/project/20185-arduino-raw-data-35-floppy-reader
2019-11-06T00:15:47 < catphish> if they were 1k, i'd be looking at a worst case of about 50mA
2019-11-06T00:16:43 < catphish> i had this conversation with someone previously, they said "5.25 drives may have 150 ohm pullups. I haven't verified how common this is (could be all of them, could be only old ones with pluggable termination packs)"
2019-11-06T00:17:21 < catphish> but those also have a 12v power supply requirement, and it wasn't my intention to support them
2019-11-06T00:18:32 < catphish> 3.25" drives are a lot more friendly, but afaik there's no spec, so can't be certain
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2019-11-06T00:20:33 < kakipro> you must accept them unknowns
2019-11-06T00:20:45 < catphish> 3.5" even
2019-11-06T00:20:56 < catphish> unknowns are to be discovered
2019-11-06T00:20:59 < catphish> possibly unpelasantly
2019-11-06T00:21:09 < kakipro> or engineered around
2019-11-06T00:21:19 < kakipro> if you make one for yourself
2019-11-06T00:21:38 < kakipro> or one for customer
2019-11-06T00:22:12 < kakipro> and don't want to think about it too much
2019-11-06T00:22:20 < kakipro> just do something that works
2019-11-06T00:22:37 < kakipro> but in consumer electronics it's totally different
2019-11-06T00:23:28 < kakipro> in consumer electronics every component is additional price and size to device
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2019-11-06T00:24:09 < kakipro> you have more like that mindset in the project
2019-11-06T00:24:33 < catphish> it would be nice if there was a unified floppy interface spec, sadly all i can find are datasheets for specific drives
2019-11-06T00:25:05 < kakipro> if all those drives work with same controller
2019-11-06T00:25:07 < catphish> 2k / open collector seems to be the only implementation for 3.5" drives, but i shall wait to be unpleasantly surprised
2019-11-06T00:25:29 < kakipro> you can derive the spec of that bus from individual drives
2019-11-06T00:25:58 < catphish> http://bitsavers.informatik.uni-stuttgart.de/pdf/mitsubishi/floppy/MF355/UGD-0489A_MF355B_Specifications_Sep86.pdf
2019-11-06T00:26:22 < catphish> that seems like as much of  standard as i'm likely to find
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2019-11-06T00:28:08 < Cracki> oh btw catphish, did anyone give you those four links including some hackaday stuff that relates to "flux engine" on 10/28?
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2019-11-06T00:28:41 < catphish> i don't recall
2019-11-06T00:28:47 < Cracki> k sec
2019-11-06T00:29:03 < Cracki> https://pastebin.com/Qq3xAuWj http://cowlark.com/fluxengine/index.html https://hackaday.com/2019/02/19/flux-engine-reads-floppies/ https://hackaday.com/2019/01/08/preserving-floppy-disks-via-logic-analyser/
2019-11-06T00:29:34 < Cracki> especially that supposed pseudo standard file format for storing pulses might be of interest to you
2019-11-06T00:30:15 < kakipro> how much 5volt tolerant pin injection current is at 5v?
2019-11-06T00:30:40 < kakipro> to VDD
2019-11-06T00:31:32 < Cracki> I'd go with native drive strength as a rule of thumb?
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2019-11-06T00:32:00 < Cracki> I looked into 5v tolerance a month ago because boss was particular about it
2019-11-06T00:32:39 < catphish> Cracki: that looks like a nice implementation, it's a carrier for a cypress thing, i know someone else is actually working on a carrier for stm32 to do the same too
2019-11-06T00:32:43 < Cracki> iirc 5v tolerant means it has clamping diodes and current limiting resistor but can't quite remember anymore
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2019-11-06T00:32:58 < Cracki> that cypress is an M3 at 80 mhz, so pretty much what you use
2019-11-06T00:33:16 < Cracki> the dude doesn't use any of the analog fuckery the cypress thing has
2019-11-06T00:33:43 < catphish> he says he uses it because it has more ram than the stm32 and doesn't rely on usb throughput to live stream the data
2019-11-06T00:33:47 < Cracki> prolly had the board flying around and decided to use it... also it's exposing lots of pins, AND the cypress seems to have a full size pin mux
2019-11-06T00:33:52 < Cracki> ah
2019-11-06T00:34:09 < catphish> i on the other hand optimized the crap out of usb to make the stm32 work
2019-11-06T00:34:17 < Cracki> buffering one track at a time should be feasible for stm32 too
2019-11-06T00:34:24 < catphish> i now finally have a working implementation of stm32 usb double buffering
2019-11-06T00:34:28 < Cracki> :)
2019-11-06T00:34:29 < catphish> Cracki: it's not
2019-11-06T00:34:41 < catphish> you need at least 256KB to do that
2019-11-06T00:37:43 < Cracki> 73k bit per sector
2019-11-06T00:38:05 < Cracki> for a HD 3.5" floppy
2019-11-06T00:38:14 < Cracki> yeah that doesn't fit
2019-11-06T00:39:18 < catphish> the best case i can imagine would be around 100KB per track
2019-11-06T00:39:46 < catphish> (approx the number you mentioned * 11 sectors per track)
2019-11-06T00:40:15 < catphish> but, i can get USB throughput up to 1MB/s now
2019-11-06T00:40:57 < catphish> so even uncompressed at 200KB/track (0.2s) requires about 40% of the maximum USB throughput
2019-11-06T00:41:24 < catphish> it works well anyway, i can read and write disks, at least with my cheap ebay PC floppy drive
2019-11-06T00:41:45 < Cracki> yeh stream ftw
2019-11-06T00:42:13 < Cracki> you can overclock the drive
2019-11-06T00:42:26 < Cracki> tell the motor to spin faster :>
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2019-11-06T00:43:43 < zyp> Steffanx, heh, I paired another of the ikea remotes, and that one I'm not allowed to bind directly to the lights
2019-11-06T00:44:56 < zyp> apparently it's running a newer firmware and advertizing itself as zigbee HA instead of ZLL, so I figure that's why, but still
2019-11-06T00:45:18 < zyp> it works with the ikea gateway, so I guess it's just a software limitation
2019-11-06T00:48:49 < zyp> either way, my goal is not to use the ikea remotes
2019-11-06T00:49:07 < zyp> https://www.sunricher.com/single-color-wall-mounted-4-groups-zigbee-push-button-remote-sr-zg9001k8-dim.html <- but these
2019-11-06T00:58:10 < catphish> Cracki: lol, sounds like a fun / terrible idea, i like it
2019-11-06T01:06:54 < zyp> Steffanx, nevermind, got it to work
2019-11-06T01:14:25 < catphish> Cracki: by the way, what image storage format were you referring to? i use a format called SCP that seems perfect for this purpose
2019-11-06T01:15:26 < Cracki> this guy uses Supercard Pro (.scp) as well https://www.chzsoft.de/site/hardware/preserving-a-floppy-disk-with-a-logic-analyzer/
2019-11-06T01:15:38 < Cracki> wasn't aware of it before, didn't remember you talking about it
2019-11-06T01:16:43 < catphish> yeah i was recommended the .scp format, it seems perfect for this application
2019-11-06T01:16:56 < catphish> it fits in nicely with the way my firmware works
2019-11-06T01:17:21 < catphish> and seemingly other people's conversion tools support it, so i don't necessarily need to reinvent all the software
2019-11-06T01:19:39 < Thorn> has anyone used EFR32 radio MCUs?
2019-11-06T01:20:08 < Thorn> looks like si4463 + cortex in the same package (+ BLE in some of them)
2019-11-06T01:21:12 < catphish> Cracki: how is that logic analyser guy controlling his drive? i originally considered using a cheap sigrok fx2 logic analyser for this, but assumed there was no way i could output the control pins
2019-11-06T01:21:54 < catphish> oh, he used a usb serial adapter, i see
2019-11-06T01:22:53 < Cracki> gotta appreciate the lego/breadboard/adhoc approach
2019-11-06T01:23:19 < Cracki> there are fx2 breakouts you can buy off ali. there you can control all 16 pins
2019-11-06T01:23:41 < Cracki> some use them as 16ch 12MHz LAs, some mix input and output
2019-11-06T01:24:02 < Cracki> they're useful as gpio blasters. someone I knew got one to blast bitstreams onto altera fpgas
2019-11-06T01:24:07 < Cracki> I think
2019-11-06T01:25:25 < catphish> Cracki: that's cool, that was my alernative way to attack this project, would probably have worked well too
2019-11-06T01:25:38 < catphish> but the stm32 is somewhat more elagant
2019-11-06T01:25:54 < Cracki> uh... y'all... timetables in week view, let's say shift schedules, days are rows and hours are columns, or day columns hour rows?
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2019-11-06T01:26:08 < Cracki> indeed. especially when you can turn it into a MSD
2019-11-06T01:26:40 < catphish> days should be columns and hour rows imo
2019-11-06T01:26:43 < Cracki> that'd be a generally marketable device. you have no idea how many people are out there who need floppies to run
2019-11-06T01:27:13 < Cracki> so... when you read it, you read a the passing day downwards?
2019-11-06T01:27:28 < catphish> yes, that's how my school timetables worked anyway
2019-11-06T01:27:31 < Cracki> hm
2019-11-06T01:27:33 < catphish> i've not read one since
2019-11-06T01:27:59 < catphish> http://belfastgms.org/site/wp-content/uploads/2018/08/Screen-Shot-2018-08-30-at-11.12.24.png
2019-11-06T01:28:02 < catphish> like this ^
2019-11-06T01:28:27 < catphish> most school timetables are written like that, no idea how grown ups do it though
2019-11-06T01:28:40 < Cracki> it's like that in this interface I'm disliking atm. before someone else did it, I did it, and I had days (and "stations") as rows, hours passing rightward
2019-11-06T01:28:51 < Cracki> yikes, that's a table
2019-11-06T01:29:19 < Cracki> I like the hours axis to be hours, and events to be blocks that are as long as they take time
2019-11-06T01:29:20 < catphish> the benefit is that 1 week is a fixed size (5-7 columns), so you can use a fixed page layout
2019-11-06T01:29:38 < Cracki> true
2019-11-06T01:29:42 < catphish> regardless of the number of units in the day
2019-11-06T01:29:57 < catphish> easier to fit on a page (probably)
2019-11-06T01:30:14 < catphish> and you can name periods like "lunch" without messing up the layout
2019-11-06T01:30:18 < Cracki> how text fits in the boxes was a problem in my style and in the current style we have
2019-11-06T01:30:52 < Cracki> otoh I managed a portrait layout. we did have three stations for every weekday so that made 15 rows
2019-11-06T01:30:59 < catphish> yeah text in boxes is the big problem with the day-rows approach
2019-11-06T01:31:21 < Cracki> you're in squeezing either way
2019-11-06T01:31:26 < catphish> anyway, i don't know why i'm so opinionated about this
2019-11-06T01:31:31 < catphish> i should probably do something useful
2019-11-06T01:31:54 < catphish> MSD is a very possibly frmware upgrade for my device by the way, but i gave up writing is because scsi is needlessly complicated
2019-11-06T01:31:56 < Cracki> aaand the class schedule of our uni is hours-down as well, so that may help keep cognitive load down
2019-11-06T01:32:10 < catphish> you can also easily buffer one track of MSD in RAM
2019-11-06T01:32:27 < Cracki> I'm mostly pissed that this moron didn't give enough of a fuck to make the goddamned colums equal size. they're autosize depending on content, which looks awful
2019-11-06T01:33:01 < Cracki> I wonder, you can rewrite single sectors if you time it right?
2019-11-06T01:33:09 < catphish> of course, PC MSD drives are like $10 on ebay
2019-11-06T01:33:11 < Cracki> is there enough buffer between sectors to do it?
2019-11-06T01:33:41 < Cracki> well the available usb msd drives may only do HD format
2019-11-06T01:33:50 < catphish> Cracki: depends on the format, sectors are soft, on a PC disk, there are 10 sectors with gaps between, you write them individually
2019-11-06T01:34:24 < catphish> on amiga disks (what i'm interested in) there are 11 sectors with no gaps, you have to buffer a whole track and overwrite it as a whole
2019-11-06T01:34:51 < Cracki> 512 bytes, 18 sectors/track, 80 tracks, 2 sizes, makes 1440<<10
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2019-11-06T01:35:18 < Cracki> read-modify-write :/ oh well
2019-11-06T01:35:20 < catphish> oh, so only 9 or 18 sectors per track on PC
2019-11-06T01:35:45 < Cracki> *sized
2019-11-06T01:35:52 < Cracki> *sided goddamnit
2019-11-06T01:36:02 < catphish> yeah PC disks have huge gaps between those sectors, so you can overwrite them indidually
2019-11-06T01:36:22 < catphish> on amiga, you'd have to read/modify/write a whole track, but that's actually really not a problem
2019-11-06T01:36:55 < Cracki> interesting might be something that emulates a floppy drive to the bus, but eats usb thumb drives or SD cards
2019-11-06T01:36:58 < catphish> on reads, you might as well cache a whole track anyway, and on writes, you might as well buffer and sequentially write as much as possible anyway
2019-11-06T01:37:02 < Cracki> I'm sure that exists already
2019-11-06T01:37:10 < Cracki> true ture
2019-11-06T01:37:13 < catphish> Cracki: it does, see "gotek"
2019-11-06T01:37:13 < Cracki> *
2019-11-06T01:37:25 < catphish> very comon tool to replace old floppy drives with
2019-11-06T01:37:55 < Cracki> I hope it has a little speaker to make the tock tock sound
2019-11-06T01:38:06 < catphish> i think it actually does
2019-11-06T01:38:11 < Cracki> :3
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2019-11-06T01:42:22 < catphish> i'm just making a GUI for it
2019-11-06T01:43:58 < Cracki> sounds more like a raped hard disk https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2Poh28QRbtk
2019-11-06T01:46:23 < catphish> that's not far off the real sound
2019-11-06T01:46:33 < catphish> maybe a tad more hard drivey
2019-11-06T01:46:50 < catphish> it's the same thing after all :)
2019-11-06T01:47:18 < Cracki> all the "sound mods" take the step signal into a piezo speaker, so it literally just pops
2019-11-06T01:47:40 < Cracki> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7Qz9a8kYYkA
2019-11-06T01:47:44 < Cracki> this is what it should be
2019-11-06T01:48:54 < Cracki> may be a little complex for a simple solution
2019-11-06T01:49:08 < Cracki> sample a single tock, then replay possibly overlapping
2019-11-06T01:50:42 < kakinull> isn't there usb-floppy ics catphish?
2019-11-06T01:51:09 < catphish> kakinull: probably not
2019-11-06T01:51:39 < catphish> kakinull: if there was, they'd likely be hardwired for PC format
2019-11-06T01:52:27 < Cracki> oh some firmware has midi file support
2019-11-06T01:52:55 < catphish> lol
2019-11-06T01:54:05 < catphish> my firmware could do the opposite and play real music on the real floppy drive when it finishes reading a disk
2019-11-06T01:54:14 < Cracki> :D
2019-11-06T01:54:16 < kakinull> catphish: I have usb floppy drive
2019-11-06T01:54:22 < kakinull> how is it made?
2019-11-06T01:54:30 < catphish> kakinull: i have no idea
2019-11-06T01:54:34 < kakinull> should I open the shiet?
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2019-11-06T01:54:43 < Cracki> pair fake host and fake drive and still play sound
2019-11-06T01:54:49 < kakinull> it was like 8eur from ebay
2019-11-06T01:54:57 < catphish> i imagine probably just a generic MCU, but i don't know
2019-11-06T01:55:10 < catphish> kakinull: yeah i've seen those, i did wonder if i could reprogram one
2019-11-06T01:55:26 < catphish> but forgot to find out
2019-11-06T01:55:53 < catphish> one thing i can guarentee is that it's hardcoded to only read PC formatted disks
2019-11-06T01:56:31 < catphish> (but not necessarily hardwired in silicon if it uses a generic MCU)
2019-11-06T01:57:35 < catphish> see also: https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/1-44MB-3-5-floppy-drive-connector-34-PIN-34P-to-USB-cable-adapter-PCB-board-vi/273966286400?hash=item3fc9a9c640:g:gDMAAOSwaplcneZ-
2019-11-06T01:58:11 < catphish> any idea what that MCU is?
2019-11-06T01:58:47 < catphish> looks like someone made basically the same ultra cheap design as me
2019-11-06T01:59:00 < catphish> but with probably a 5v mcu
2019-11-06T02:01:20 < catphish> anyway, i hardly invented this concept, i just wanted to make a device that is 1) cheap 2) ready to use 3) flexible with regard to disk formats
2019-11-06T02:06:21 < Cracki> and a fun project to learn things with
2019-11-06T02:06:57 < catphish> indeed
2019-11-06T02:07:26 < catphish> not my first project, but potentially one simple enough that i can see through to a small scale batch production to share with others
2019-11-06T02:07:43 < Cracki> they blacktopped the chip... https://floppy.foone.org/w/USB_FDD@1306_USB_floppy_adapter
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2019-11-06T02:12:24 < catphish> oh nice find
2019-11-06T02:12:36 < catphish> i didnt think to google it
2019-11-06T02:13:52 < dongs> Please note that this cable will NOT improve the read/write speed of the drive.
2019-11-06T02:13:53 < dongs> haha
2019-11-06T02:14:09 < catphish> lol
2019-11-06T02:14:26 < catphish> it might, if your old floppy controller sucked :)
2019-11-06T02:14:41 < dongs> can't you overclock the motor
2019-11-06T02:15:11 < dongs> anyway that chinachip looks like is only for 1.44m floppy
2019-11-06T02:15:18 < dongs> cant even suport anything out of spec
2019-11-06T02:15:45 < catphish> that's really a matter for its firmware
2019-11-06T02:15:54 < dongs> of course, which is prolly a mask rom
2019-11-06T02:15:55 < catphish> but as i said, hardcoded for one format
2019-11-06T02:15:59 < dongs> so youre fucked anyway
2019-11-06T02:16:22 < catphish> makes sense
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2019-11-06T02:16:33 < catphish> well meh, i have an open source design
2019-11-06T02:16:42 < catphish> for roughly the same price
2019-11-06T02:17:56 < dongs> so which one of the 17 pins is read data?
2019-11-06T02:18:08 < dongs> is that some serial thing that toggles at eac hstep?
2019-11-06T02:18:43 < catphish> the drive generates a pulse every time the magnetic track changes polarity
2019-11-06T02:19:03 < catphish> one measures the time between pulses
2019-11-06T02:19:35 < catphish> so the read and write pins connect to a timer
2019-11-06T02:19:56 < dongs> oh so you cant overclock the motor cuz you never control its speed?
2019-11-06T02:19:59 < dongs> just on/off thing?
2019-11-06T02:19:59 < Cracki> I don't think you can tell the drive to spin faster just from the signals on the bus. it would need surgery for that.
2019-11-06T02:20:11 < dongs> huhu ok
2019-11-06T02:20:18 < catphish> dongs: https://i.imgur.com/dRHamhC.png
2019-11-06T02:20:22 < Cracki> there aren't any drives sold like that because the transition times would be all wrong and no host controller would understand
2019-11-06T02:20:31 < catphish> dongs: you can't control the motor speed, no :(
2019-11-06T02:20:52 < catphish> and yeah, the controller assumed known time periods
2019-11-06T02:20:56 < catphish> *assumes
2019-11-06T02:21:00 < Cracki> you could try overvolting it but I'm sure it has a servomechanism in it
2019-11-06T02:21:28 < catphish> it's pretty accurate, no idea how
2019-11-06T02:21:38 < catphish> not just a plain dc motor
2019-11-06T02:21:45 < Cracki> whatever tacho signal it has you could probably unhook, divide, and feed back in
2019-11-06T02:21:56 < Cracki> might have magnetic encoder, or optical encoder?
2019-11-06T02:22:11 < Cracki> if it's a good drive it might even listen for the data pulses themselves?
2019-11-06T02:23:09 < Cracki> prolly bldc with hall sensors. they might be programmed with a fixed transfer curve
2019-11-06T02:23:19 < Cracki> not sure anyone does that, just my imagination
2019-11-06T02:23:59 < Cracki> flyweight is the lowtech solution
2019-11-06T02:24:30 < catphish> i think it is indeed bldc
2019-11-06T02:24:37 < Cracki> *flywheel
2019-11-06T02:24:43 < catphish> easy to control speed that way
2019-11-06T02:24:49 < Cracki> you could spin it with your fingers, guesstimate pole number
2019-11-06T02:25:06 < catphish> i have literally no desire to mess with it :)
2019-11-06T02:25:21 < Cracki> :P
2019-11-06T02:26:05 < catphish> now i have to get libusb and wxwidgets to play nice to make a nice cross platform gui
2019-11-06T02:27:54 < dongs> http://hxc2001.free.fr/floppy_drive_emulator/ some massive autism
2019-11-06T02:28:52 < catphish> yeps!
2019-11-06T02:28:59 < englishman> overclocked floppy drives
2019-11-06T02:29:00 < englishman> wut
2019-11-06T02:29:32 < englishman> I think there was something I read last week about recording raw floppy magnetic data then demodulating data from that
2019-11-06T02:29:44 < Cracki> love their music
2019-11-06T02:30:44 < catphish> englishman: me? i've been working on this for weeks
2019-11-06T02:30:53 < catphish> so it's plausible it was me
2019-11-06T02:31:05 < englishman> cool
2019-11-06T02:31:17 < catphish> but seems to be a popular topic lately
2019-11-06T02:31:24 < englishman> are you basically making an MRI then
2019-11-06T02:31:45 < dongs> englishman: that was some shit with python and gay shit
2019-11-06T02:31:50 < dongs> and some retarduino board
2019-11-06T02:31:53 < englishman> nice
2019-11-06T02:31:57 < dongs> MAKE:R class stuff
2019-11-06T02:32:11 < englishman> python is still better than LabVIEW btw
2019-11-06T02:32:27 < catphish> MRI, cool, kinda lol
2019-11-06T02:32:27 < englishman> hence its astounding adoption by medicine and science
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2019-11-06T02:52:12 < Cracki> mri is fun. someone tried to rope me into building the whole acquisition stuff before I had all that much practice with even just atmegas
2019-11-06T02:52:25 < Cracki> he described it as needing 20 MHz 16 bit dual-channel recording
2019-11-06T02:52:33 < Cracki> told him that shit exists, it just costs a few k
2019-11-06T02:52:43 < Cracki> he wanted it diy, and fuck the time spent on it
2019-11-06T02:52:59 < Cracki> NI prolly has boxes that do exactly that
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2019-11-06T02:58:35 < mawk> NI ?
2019-11-06T02:59:03 < mawk> 16bit 20MHz doesn't seem that high, why is it expensive ?
2019-11-06T02:59:28 < dongs> national instruments, tehy make those weird external shits that interface with labiaview
2019-11-06T02:59:36 < dongs> usually using VISA or some other retarded bloated niggerwarez
2019-11-06T02:59:38 < mawk> I see
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2019-11-06T03:02:15 < qyx> 16bit 20MHz is very high
2019-11-06T03:02:32 < qyx> they have some multichannel 16 bit low-ksps things
2019-11-06T03:02:49 < qyx> we were using some 24bit 51ksps
2019-11-06T03:03:11 < qyx> but nothing in the msps range iirc
2019-11-06T03:03:41 < qyx> obviouisly there was RF stuff too
2019-11-06T03:04:36 < dongs> https://www.ni.com/en-us/support/model.pci-6115.html
2019-11-06T03:04:37 < Cracki> yes, I'm not sure I was very aware of SDRs back then. they might have fit the bill
2019-11-06T03:05:03 < dongs> 10MS is the fastest shit they have
2019-11-06T03:05:08 < Cracki> he was involved in some kind of research. no idea if that shifts bandwidth requirements or if they're generally that high
2019-11-06T03:05:10 < qyx> their sdrs are multi 1ke
2019-11-06T03:05:17 < Cracki> tbh he pulled numbers out of his ass
2019-11-06T03:05:35 < Cracki> he was aiming for highest quality that wasn't useless
2019-11-06T03:05:45 < qyx> they call them vector signal generators/analyzers iirc
2019-11-06T03:06:16 < Cracki> one thing he said sounded very audiophile: he wanted this much bw so he could show that there isn't anything going on above a certain frequency
2019-11-06T03:06:34 < qyx> we were using it to play a recorded GPS bitstream
2019-11-06T03:06:40 < Cracki> :D
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2019-11-06T03:08:33 < qyx> mhm such spec adc, there are some
2019-11-06T03:08:45 < qyx> 4 channel radard AFE with ADC
2019-11-06T03:09:05 < qyx> they are more than 8bit, avout 40Msps range
2019-11-06T03:09:16 < qyx> radar I mean
2019-11-06T03:09:45 < qyx> android at 2am.
2019-11-06T03:11:27 < qyx> http://www.ti.com/product/AFE5401-Q1
2019-11-06T03:27:42 < catphish> i hate coputers
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2019-11-06T03:55:43 < Cracki> 121 comment lines on 4604 non-comment lines. is that a little meager?
2019-11-06T03:57:46 < Cracki> random sample of my own code: 221 comment lines vs 1934 nc lines
2019-11-06T03:59:48 < aandrew> https://imgur.com/a/L7aPFVA this is my hotel setup while I'm onsite
2019-11-06T04:00:12 < Cracki> you need to spoof that many?
2019-11-06T04:00:22 < aandrew> Cracki: I was part of a team that did the complete hardware layout for FIB+SEM systems
2019-11-06T04:00:25 < aandrew> that was crazy
2019-11-06T04:00:36 < Cracki> and they put you up in a hotel without 10g fiber?
2019-11-06T04:01:02 < aandrew> Cracki: not spoofing anything. the nrf52s run a TDMA network that the nRF51s participate in. the wifi dongles in the middle create interference to help test the performance of the frequency hopping
2019-11-06T04:01:31 < Cracki> ah, interference
2019-11-06T04:01:58 < aandrew> bitvise is a godsend for windows
2019-11-06T04:02:04 < aandrew> with linux/osx I just use autossh
2019-11-06T04:02:14 < Cracki> eh, on windows I use putty
2019-11-06T04:02:18 < Cracki> decent enough
2019-11-06T04:02:37 < Cracki> oh right bitvise also does ssh server
2019-11-06T04:02:43 < Cracki> that can be useful aye
2019-11-06T04:02:45 < aandrew> bitvise will reconnect automatically and does the needful
2019-11-06T04:02:49 < Cracki> heh
2019-11-06T04:05:44 < Cracki>  /o\ dude whose code I look at rn decided that a flask based python web server must not be allowed to move data files (videos), only read them... so the dude throws "jobs" into an sql table and has something else run a fucking C program that parses json, does the rename, and spits out json, and then the python web part of it catches that result
2019-11-06T04:05:57 < Cracki> something about "security"
2019-11-06T04:06:31 < Cracki> yes he is as inexperienced a coder as it sounds
2019-11-06T04:06:57 < aandrew> haha 
2019-11-06T04:07:03 < aandrew> you can tell he's inexperienced by the lack of XML
2019-11-06T04:08:15 < Cracki> you can tell by his style. task is to calculate an alternate file name if the canonical one is used already. one line he wrote is this:
2019-11-06T04:08:17 < Cracki> rpath = '.'.join([p[0]+'_'+str(num)]+p[1:])
2019-11-06T04:08:27 < Cracki> with a `p = path.rsplit('.', 1)` above it
2019-11-06T04:08:57 < Cracki> i mean... python has path manipulation functions, but also p is a two-length list, so he can destructure that as (head, tail) = path.rsplit...
2019-11-06T04:09:07 < doomba> that's some ugly python
2019-11-06T04:09:10 < Cracki> and then python has string interpolation, so fuck this unreadable addition nonsense
2019-11-06T04:09:28 < Cracki> rpath = f"{head}_{num}.{tail}"
2019-11-06T04:09:31 < Cracki> simple as that
2019-11-06T04:09:42 < Cracki> p[1:] is equal to [tail]
2019-11-06T04:10:00 < Cracki> os.path.splitext() would have been my choice
2019-11-06T04:10:52 < Cracki> oh well
2019-11-06T04:11:50 < BrainDamage> SQL as rpc mechanism is horrifying
2019-11-06T04:12:07 < Cracki> I don't notice getting older, or more experienced, but I do notice getting dumber :>
2019-11-06T04:12:14 < Cracki> actually not that bad
2019-11-06T04:12:28 < Cracki> the RPC often consists of long running stuff that eventually has a result
2019-11-06T04:12:38 < Cracki> and since there's a db already, just use it
2019-11-06T04:13:05 < Cracki> I'm unaware of any mechanism that lets you listen on table changes and get inserts/updates instantly but it may exist
2019-11-06T04:13:44 < Cracki> tbh I'd have designed it as another python process, some unix domain sockets for IPC, and that one handling the immediate communication
2019-11-06T04:13:57 < BrainDamage> iirc sqlalchemy has a event system
2019-11-06T04:14:03 < Cracki> handling a crashing subprocess is headache
2019-11-06T04:14:15 < BrainDamage> yes, I'd also have used sockets for ipc and another python program
2019-11-06T04:14:17 < Cracki> well ok, handling multiple children
2019-11-06T04:14:33 < mawk> epoll solves all the problems
2019-11-06T04:14:35 < BrainDamage> especially since you can just handle the same data format from the same lib, ensuring consistency
2019-11-06T04:14:42 < Cracki> json is fine by me. I'm a little doubtful of protobuf and other stuff.
2019-11-06T04:14:55 < mawk> well protobuf gives you RPC for free
2019-11-06T04:14:56 < BrainDamage> json has ... differences in its implementations
2019-11-06T04:15:19 < Cracki> some of his worker tasks involve using ffmpeg... but I'm sure most of that can be done by running ffmpeg as a subprocess with the right arguments
2019-11-06T04:15:19 < mawk> and advanced data format which subsets a great part of any modern languages
2019-11-06T04:15:29 < mawk> you don't have to write serializer/deserializer functions
2019-11-06T04:15:32 < Cracki> instead he showed his masochist side and actually uses ffmpeg apis
2019-11-06T04:15:39 < mawk> lol
2019-11-06T04:15:45 < Cracki> I'm glad there's pyav, the only good bindings for ffmpeg
2019-11-06T04:16:07 < Cracki> not sure about json... it has a pretty unambiguous spec
2019-11-06T04:16:24 < Cracki> the only thing you can be arbitrary about is whitespace between (i.e. indentation)
2019-11-06T04:16:37 < Cracki> you aren't even allowed to dangle a comma like [1,2,3,]
2019-11-06T04:16:54 < Cracki> anyway, python to python, would have been the smart choice
2019-11-06T04:17:12 < Cracki> the things he has to do to parse json within C... it pains me
2019-11-06T04:17:29 < mawk> yeah that's why protobuf is nice
2019-11-06T04:17:38 < mawk> it works for any language without any kind of parser needed
2019-11-06T04:18:01 < mawk> I used it for my C parser program, to talk from C++ to JS
2019-11-06T04:18:06 < mawk> send the parsed data to generate a graph
2019-11-06T04:19:00 < Cracki> I'm mostly hesitant to use protobuf because I haven't touched it beyond having to make it work in order to build opencv
2019-11-06T04:19:23 < Cracki> and that boils down to running protoc or not, and having opencv rebuild protobuf from source (or not)
2019-11-06T04:19:31 < mawk> yeah
2019-11-06T04:19:51 < mawk> well you need protoc alongisde your compiler if you're doing compiled languages indeed, but that's all
2019-11-06T04:20:07 < Cracki> google has a public transport api where you can see busses in "real time". our city's provider has that api too... and it's protobuf.
2019-11-06T04:20:13 < mawk> it will generate classes for your language that you can directly use without any form of set up
2019-11-06T04:20:20 < Cracki> I'm enough into it that I know how varints are encoded
2019-11-06T04:21:02 < Cracki> I *think* opencv is supposed to come with the protoc output already committed and ready to build but eh
2019-11-06T04:21:28 < Cracki> it's probably the best binary format to throw data around. good standardization.
2019-11-06T04:22:39 < Cracki> gah there's a json library for tardweeno. it's awful. dude for some reason don't rely on any libc-provided int/float <> string conversion functions, instead rolls his own
2019-11-06T04:22:44 < Cracki> and they're inexact
2019-11-06T04:24:29 < Cracki> we have an ftp server where files get dropped for further processing or straight publishing
2019-11-06T04:24:49 < Cracki> instead of watching that directory with inotify, he uses python to run another ftp server, just to catch the event
2019-11-06T04:25:04 < Cracki> ok, fair... but also fragile as fuck
2019-11-06T04:25:36 < Cracki> that shit ran for years in his tmux, and he couldn't be assed to set an @reboot user cronjob to recreate the tmux session in the event of a server reboot
2019-11-06T04:26:29 < Cracki> my shit ran in a tmux/screen for years too but I could be assed to set that up and keep it running/self-restarting/fault-tolerant
2019-11-06T04:27:26 < Cracki> ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
2019-11-06T04:28:29 < mawk> protoc output isn't supposed to be comitted
2019-11-06T04:28:43 < mawk> it's tied to a particular libprotobuf version, there are #if in the code to check for that
2019-11-06T04:28:56 < mawk> that's why you always need protoc on the computer you build on
2019-11-06T04:29:00 < Cracki> that explains a few things
2019-11-06T04:29:04 < mawk> (unless you package the exact verison of libprotobuf with you I guess
2019-11-06T04:29:18 < Cracki> then I do wonder why "rerun protoc" is a cmake option in opencv's build
2019-11-06T04:29:31 < Cracki> they do package exact versions of many dependencies
2019-11-06T04:29:33 < mawk> maybe if you modify the .proto files
2019-11-06T04:30:24 < Cracki> protobuf is, afaik, how a lot of deep learning data is thrown around, trained networks (weights etc)
2019-11-06T04:30:45 < Cracki> there's a new standard called onnx that everyone is jumping at now but it's not pervasive yet
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2019-11-06T07:44:35 < R2COM> jadew nice
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2019-11-06T09:19:09 < Thorn> what is this https://www.nxp.com/products/wireless/zigbee/ieee802.15.4-wireless-microcontroller-with-64-kb-flash-8-kb-ram:JN5161
2019-11-06T09:20:23 < dongs> shitbee
2019-11-06T09:20:51 < dongs> > Highly featured 32-bit RISC CPU for high performance and low power
2019-11-06T09:21:02 < dongs> is this another way of saying "bullshit core nobody else uses and has no toolchain for"?
2019-11-06T09:23:34 < Thorn> find the temperature sensor https://fccid.io/png.php?id=3240118&page=1
2019-11-06T09:24:09 < Thorn> I could not find any info about the core, they don't even specify the architecture in the datasheet
2019-11-06T09:24:42 < dongs> nice
2019-11-06T09:24:46 < Thorn> but xiaomi uses those chips in their aqara smart home stuff
2019-11-06T09:25:08 < dongs> think it might be reisc?
2019-11-06T09:25:11 < dongs> riscv i mean
2019-11-06T09:25:29 < Thorn> I don't think they're that new
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2019-11-06T09:27:11 < buZz> ~someone made arduino support for that mcu
2019-11-06T09:27:12 < buZz> https://github.com/soburi/JN516x-arduino-package/blob/master/boards.txt
2019-11-06T09:27:37 < dongs> jn516x.build.compiler.path={runtime.tools.BA2-toolchain.path}/bin/
2019-11-06T09:27:47 < buZz> > 32-bit RISC CPU (Beyond Architecture -- BA), 1 to 32MHz clock speed
2019-11-06T09:27:49 < dongs> GCC toolchain for the "Beyond Architecture 2" CPU which is used in the NXP JN516x chip series
2019-11-06T09:27:53 < dongs> ooshit lol. fucking aids.
2019-11-06T09:27:58 < Thorn> oh and they have no jtag
2019-11-06T09:28:07 < dongs> why jtag when you can flash and pray
2019-11-06T09:28:08 < Thorn> (they do but for factory testing only)
2019-11-06T09:28:16 < dongs> the opensores way
2019-11-06T09:28:33 < Thorn> not sure how they're even flashed lol, room bootloader most likely
2019-11-06T09:28:36 < buZz> just use printf debugging like a man
2019-11-06T09:28:46 < Thorn> *rom
2019-11-06T09:46:54 < jpa-> real men use blinking leds
2019-11-06T09:48:46 < Thorn> yeah they can read 1 kHz SPI by looking at data and clk leds
2019-11-06T09:49:15 < jpa-> you'll have to shake your head pretty fast though
2019-11-06T09:49:38 < Thorn> or the device
2019-11-06T09:50:09 < Thorn> which would be more convenient since it's wireless and battery powered
2019-11-06T09:52:33 < jpa-> true
2019-11-06T09:52:49 < jpa-> but if you have long debugging beard/hair, it looks more cool when you shake your head
2019-11-06T09:53:21 < buZz> true debugging grows from the neckbeard
2019-11-06T09:55:00 < dongs> my fucking god lunix-dvb is an absolute clusterfuck years and years later
2019-11-06T09:57:23 < jpa-> > expects linux things to become less of a clusterfuck as time passes on
2019-11-06T09:57:33 < dongs> yeah, urrite
2019-11-06T09:57:44 < dongs> > Mon Apr 16, 2018 9:42 am
2019-11-06T09:57:51 < dongs> > Please have a try with older kernel first for kernle 4.15 we will add support soon
2019-11-06T09:57:55 < dongs> fucking lool
2019-11-06T09:58:20 < dongs> last drivers i installed the shit just fucking shuts down teh vm
2019-11-06T09:58:27 < dongs> now trying some new shit
2019-11-06T09:58:35 < dongs> each fucking media build requires downloading like 300megs of sores
2019-11-06T09:58:38 < dongs> and building for 30 minutes
2019-11-06T09:58:48 < dongs> of every god damn usb shitty camera from 20 years ago
2019-11-06T09:58:54 < dongs> when all I want is a single usb dvb-s2 adapter
2019-11-06T09:59:09 < dongs> (did i mention the shit works in windows out of the box?)
2019-11-06T10:00:59 < dongs> yep new shit dies too
2019-11-06T10:01:15 < dongs> fucking incredible
2019-11-06T10:01:23 < dongs> VM just powers off
2019-11-06T10:01:24 < dongs> haha
2019-11-06T10:03:40 < c10ud> USB+VM is not so easy though
2019-11-06T10:03:53 < dongs> ??????????
2019-11-06T10:04:31 < c10ud> easy as enabling one checkbox, getting it to work reliably with devices is another story
2019-11-06T10:04:43 < dongs> ive been using USB with devices in VMs for years?
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2019-11-06T10:05:15 < c10ud> which vms? try flashing some nvidia shit with it...
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2019-11-06T10:32:03 < Steffanx> USB in VM works fine. Until it doesnt.
2019-11-06T10:32:28 < Steffanx> Like when you installed wireshark with the usbpcap driver which fucks things up. A lot.
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2019-11-06T11:38:28 < karlp> Thorn: jennic got swallowed by nxp years ago, and it was custom core iirc.  the JNxxx partnumbers are a giveaway
2019-11-06T11:38:33 < karlp> hven't seen them mentioned for ages.
2019-11-06T11:42:16 < dongs> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jennic oh, TIL
2019-11-06T11:42:20 < dongs> yeah sounds dead as hell
2019-11-06T11:43:04 < karlp> it was interesting stuff years ago, we met a guy doing some neat "wireless" power strips with monitoring built in, all on jennic "dust" stuff iirc it's name was.
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2019-11-06T11:43:26 < karlp> but yeah, arm was booming, and you were going to have to get in bed with a niche player, that was bought up and then basically just warehoused
2019-11-06T11:43:34 < karlp> kinda neat to see it dusted off again
2019-11-06T11:44:53 < karlp> 2011 "announced it's intent to opensource jennet" but by the time they got aroudn to it, it had been re-implemented by everyone else so it no longer mattered...
2019-11-06T12:28:01 < Thorn>  okicthx
2019-11-06T12:28:49 < Thorn> why use them in a new high volume produt though
2019-11-06T12:28:59 < Thorn> which is what xiaomi did
2019-11-06T12:31:17 < karlp> maybe they're doing new stuff again?
2019-11-06T12:31:27 < karlp> high volume does strange things, all sorts of things become viable.
2019-11-06T12:32:03 < karlp> I mean, it's not like it stopped being functional or anything. nothing's really changed in this space..
2019-11-06T12:32:25 < Thorn> apparently there is zibgee 3.0 which is closed or something
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2019-11-06T12:42:49 < Steffanx> Hello jly. What's your latest stm32 project?
2019-11-06T12:43:05 < jly> or gate
2019-11-06T12:43:37 < jly> Arduino wasn't good enough for this so upgrade necessary 
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2019-11-06T12:44:18 < jly> you may think i'm kidding around, but for a true OR gate, the feel must be emulated too
2019-11-06T12:45:14 < jly> the  crowdfunding campaign added some complexities too
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2019-11-06T12:47:04 < jly> Steffanx: can you visit the kickstarter
2019-11-06T12:50:08 < PaulFertser> I see jly continues his fruitful collaboration with dongs on making this world a better place: https://gizmodo.com/bored-pilot-writes-im-bored-and-draws-two-dicks-in-the-1832754055
2019-11-06T12:50:31 < jly> i wouldn't say that
2019-11-06T12:50:45 < jly> he's very much his own person
2019-11-06T12:50:50 < jly> i'm just pumping solo
2019-11-06T12:52:17 < PaulFertser> Ok, sorry jly, I should have known you've enough creativity to produce that awesome performance all on your own.   
2019-11-06T12:52:34 < jly> The catalyst was me blogging about the eventual need for an AN630u from matsushita
2019-11-06T12:53:16 < jly> considering the product was built in 1977
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2019-11-06T12:55:54 < jly> I have a pair of technics sl-1900 turntables now, and in their 40+ years of life they've needed a clean and relube
2019-11-06T12:55:56 < PaulFertser> Hm, probably that's where dongs can actually help? Probably he knows some engineers in Japan who know other engineers who happen to have worked with the part? 
2019-11-06T12:56:16 < jly> yeah the audiophile scene in japan is pretty crazy
2019-11-06T12:57:05 < jly> i like vinyl as it stops me skipping to the 2 'best' tracks on an album
2019-11-06T12:57:11 < jly> now i get to enjoy the whole lot rofl
2019-11-06T12:57:22 < karlp> for the low low price of continually fucking flipping shit and picking out the next one.
2019-11-06T12:57:44 < karlp> this is the feature I miss the most in most music players, "play random album, in track order"
2019-11-06T12:57:50 < karlp> instead of "random" or "linear"
2019-11-06T12:58:44 < jly> i was quite fond of pioneer's 50 CD loader
2019-11-06T12:59:02 < jly> until the traverse mech was unobtainium 15 years ago :(
2019-11-06T13:00:19 < jly> every 20 mins turning the record around amounts to some physical exercise
2019-11-06T13:01:50 < PaulFertser> karlp: I see rockbox has "Random Folder Advance Configuration plugin"
2019-11-06T13:04:19 < karlp> sounds about right, for people that kept it oldschool with folders per album, but it's not a very common feature.
2019-11-06T13:06:43 < jly> can cockbox rip a gen2 ipod nano?
2019-11-06T13:07:00 < jly> i have some unobtainium bands on it
2019-11-06T13:07:36 < jly> afaik it just renames the files to some gobblydygook shit
2019-11-06T13:08:35 < PaulFertser> karlp: but you can easily create a needed directory-per-album arrangement with a trivial shell or python script.
2019-11-06T13:09:25 < PaulFertser> jly: better always make backups. That said, I think rockbox never renames anything automatically, it just creates additional files (needed for its database etc).
2019-11-06T13:09:42 < jly> cool cool
2019-11-06T13:09:53 < jly> this was on a 10 year old HDD iirc
2019-11-06T13:10:04 < jly> if it comes to it..... that's the other option
2019-11-06T13:10:19 < jly> or i can just stick the analog output into something
2019-11-06T13:10:32 < jly> the cute old ipod had enough DNR 
2019-11-06T13:10:59 < jly> woflson DACs were nice
2019-11-06T13:12:25 < PaulFertser> "After an unclean shutdown (menu+select reset or a crash), it may sometimes lose all contents on the data flash."
2019-11-06T13:12:39 < jly> haha yeah, that'd be sweet
2019-11-06T13:12:42 < PaulFertser> "This seems to have been resolved"
2019-11-06T13:13:07 < jly> this thing is like 2005 era, 2 trillion boot cycles
2019-11-06T13:14:35 < jly> it only ever died when the battery flopped
2019-11-06T13:14:54 < jly> again this thing was flawless for over 10 years with the tiny lipo
2019-11-06T13:38:07 < Steffanx> Link, jly?
2019-11-06T13:38:25 < Steffanx> I get the feeling I'm talking to my cat, why is that jly?
2019-11-06T13:38:26 < jly> for?
2019-11-06T13:38:32 < Steffanx> The kickstarter
2019-11-06T13:38:38 < jly> it doesn't exist
2019-11-06T13:38:43 < Steffanx> Damn it
2019-11-06T13:38:52 < jly> who in their right mind would kickstart an OR gate
2019-11-06T13:39:17 < jly> oh in this world exists juicero so....... guess anything makes sense once reality is smashed
2019-11-06T13:42:15 < Steffanx> Juicero still exists?
2019-11-06T13:42:26 < jly> n
2019-11-06T13:42:36 < jly> once did
2019-11-06T13:43:06 < jly> until the whole world forgets.... unfortunately this may take some time.
2019-11-06T13:44:40 < jly> did you know fran blance still has a penis?
2019-11-06T13:46:45 < englishman> good morning innovators, and also jly
2019-11-06T13:47:23 < jly> hi sir
2019-11-06T13:48:34 < jly> I've been busy cutting groundplanes into analogue and digital
2019-11-06T13:49:50 < englishman> aha, adding future problems
2019-11-06T13:49:59 < englishman> very important for job security
2019-11-06T14:02:24 < jly> ty
2019-11-06T14:02:45 < jly> always goes well when UFOs from 10 dimensions away make your board oscillate
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2019-11-06T14:03:47 < doomba> those aren't UFOs. alex jones said they are gay stm32FR0GS
2019-11-06T14:03:58 < jly> lol
2019-11-06T14:04:16 < jly> this post telegram community is ripe for pump
2019-11-06T14:09:52 < englishman> does anyone have a copy of x-cube-sbsfu
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2019-11-06T14:27:52 < Mangy_Dog> damn alex jones is getting too damn smart for us if hes now capable of diserning a stm32frgs to a f407vet
2019-11-06T14:29:02 < Steffanx> Will you get us a copy, englishman ?
2019-11-06T14:29:06 < jly> i thought he died
2019-11-06T14:29:25 < Mangy_Dog> alex jones?
2019-11-06T14:29:27 < Mangy_Dog> sadly no
2019-11-06T14:29:29 < Mangy_Dog> hes still with us
2019-11-06T14:30:03 < karlp> what does "diserning a stm32frgs to a f407vet" mean?
2019-11-06T14:30:09 < englishman> Steffanx: I asked
2019-11-06T14:38:04 < qyx> hu what is diserning
2019-11-06T14:38:10 < qyx> lol karlp 
2019-11-06T14:41:06 < Mangy_Dog> it means telling the difference between
2019-11-06T14:41:31 < zyp> you mean "discerning"
2019-11-06T14:41:47 < Mangy_Dog> pft how ever its spelt... im dyslexic so sue me
2019-11-06T14:42:38 < karlp> and the rest of it?
2019-11-06T14:42:50 < karlp> I was pretty sure you meant discerning, that wasns't the problem.
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2019-11-06T14:52:52 < Steffanx> karlp:  has the doomba on ignore?
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2019-11-06T15:17:28 < karlp> no, just didn't match the stm32f4gs to the stm32FR0GS line.
2019-11-06T15:30:27 < aandrew> morning
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2019-11-06T16:38:16 < zoobab> :win 4
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2019-11-06T16:48:53 < Steffanx> Isnt ##stm32 your first and only window zoobab ?
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2019-11-06T17:19:04 < Laurenceb_> https://yro.slashdot.org/story/19/11/05/2241200/walmart-reaches-settlement-with-tesla-over-solar-panel-fires-drops-lawsuit
2019-11-06T17:19:08 < Laurenceb_> Musk btfo'd
2019-11-06T17:19:16 < englishman> how so
2019-11-06T17:19:22 < englishman> they settled
2019-11-06T17:19:41 < englishman> Walmart refused to maintain their shit after squirrels ate all the cables
2019-11-06T17:20:03 < englishman> they changed for a rubber coating that doesn't taste so good
2019-11-06T17:26:08 < Laurenceb_> Musk defender spotted
2019-11-06T17:33:51 -!- bitmask [~bitmask@2601:84:c702:f500:9cea:896b:ca7d:1e29] has joined ##stm32
2019-11-06T17:39:58 < Laurenceb_> 2 weeks until babbyshake is over
2019-11-06T17:40:00 < Laurenceb_> can't wait
2019-11-06T17:40:06 < Laurenceb_> watching my countdown clock
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2019-11-06T17:43:31 < bitmask> as a reverse battery protector, can I just make a crowbar with a fuse and a standard diode?
2019-11-06T17:47:02 < Laurenceb_> >crowbar
2019-11-06T17:47:03 < Laurenceb_> wtf
2019-11-06T17:47:29  * Laurenceb_ pictures a car battery being shorted with a crowbar
2019-11-06T17:48:48 < bitmask> thats fairly accurate
2019-11-06T17:48:54 < bitmask> you never heard of a crowbar?
2019-11-06T17:49:35 < bitmask> in an undesirable event it shorts power to gnd to drop the voltage to almost nothing, a lot of times with a fuse in line so that power gets completely disconnected
2019-11-06T17:50:05 < bitmask> usually for over voltage protection
2019-11-06T17:52:05 < bitmask> usually scr controlled but since I just want it for reverse battery protection a diode should be fine i think
2019-11-06T17:53:01 < bitmask> im still not sure I even want reverse batt protection, going back and forth on a lot of protections
2019-11-06T17:55:42 < Steffanx> Can you connect your battery in reverse?
2019-11-06T17:55:42 < aandrew> bitmask: yes but a literal crowbar across a car battery isn't quite the same thing :-)
2019-11-06T17:56:04 < aandrew> bitmask: for reverse voltage I like the "backward" grounded gate pfet design
2019-11-06T17:56:05 < bitmask> I said fairly :P
2019-11-06T17:56:23 < aandrew> connected properly, the fet is on, shorting out the body diode and is nearly invisible
2019-11-06T17:56:25 < bitmask> Steffanx not when its all set up but what if I solder the connector on backwards :P
2019-11-06T17:56:36 < aandrew> reverse polarity and the FET is off and the body diode is reverse-biased
2019-11-06T17:56:46 < Steffanx> Dont do that  bitmask 
2019-11-06T17:57:03 < Steffanx> Do a proper visual inspection :)
2019-11-06T17:57:09 < aandrew> with a little creativity you could wire up an indicator that flashed an LED with "wrong polarity asspirate" on the cover
2019-11-06T17:57:10 < bitmask> yea I may forgo a lot of this stuff I'm thinking about since my design layout is pretty much done and I have little room in these areas
2019-11-06T17:57:49 < bitmask> aandrew I saw a post of yours on eevblog from like 2015/2016
2019-11-06T17:57:54 < bitmask> when looking this stuff up
2019-11-06T17:58:05 < bitmask> assuming you use the same name there
2019-11-06T17:58:10 < bitmask> saying just that, what you just mentioned
2019-11-06T17:58:15 < aandrew> I also like the zener+two pfet overvoltage protection circuit... when voltage across the zener is above a threshold it opens up a pfet to protect whatever it is
2019-11-06T17:58:21 < karlp> just use keyed connectors and call it a day?
2019-11-06T17:58:22 < aandrew> yep
2019-11-06T17:58:31 < bitmask> they are keyed
2019-11-06T17:58:39 < bitmask> I guess im going overboard
2019-11-06T17:58:43 < Steffanx> Yes.
2019-11-06T17:58:56 < aandrew> you can't fit a FET on the board?
2019-11-06T17:58:57 < bitmask> ok lets see what else can you talk me out of
2019-11-06T17:59:21 < Steffanx> Did you see the heated jacket on aliexpress? :D
2019-11-06T17:59:26 < bitmask> no?
2019-11-06T17:59:29 < bitmask> I think they have a lot
2019-11-06T17:59:33 < Steffanx> Yes you did.
2019-11-06T17:59:56 < Steffanx> Asked this before and I'm pretty sure you confirmed it
2019-11-06T18:00:05 < bitmask> don't tell me what i've seen :P
2019-11-06T18:00:05 < bitmask> hmm
2019-11-06T18:00:07 < bitmask> maybe :)
2019-11-06T18:00:40 < bitmask> I don't need to worry about over current on the smps for the phone charger since the phone handles that right?
2019-11-06T18:02:26 < aandrew> generally yes
2019-11-06T18:02:33 < aandrew> but what if someone puts a staple through the cable
2019-11-06T18:03:00 < bitmask> the smps has a 5.5A current protection limit
2019-11-06T18:03:07 < bitmask> not sure why its so high when its a 3A smps
2019-11-06T18:03:21 < aandrew> ok so likely not really an issue as long as the wire and everything else can handle the current clamp
2019-11-06T18:04:32 < qyx> you will have a superheated jaxket
2019-11-06T18:04:36 < bitmask> backfeeding of the smps when programming the board is kind of a nuisance 
2019-11-06T18:05:09 < aandrew> qyx: no, just a hot pocket. :-)
2019-11-06T18:07:35 < bitmask> where does the fuse go, high side right at the connector?
2019-11-06T18:09:15 < bitmask> and what kinda fuse should I use
2019-11-06T18:13:03 < aandrew> this is a heating application? slow blow, 1.5x your expected draw probably
2019-11-06T18:13:12 < bitmask> yea ok
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2019-11-06T18:14:15 < aandrew> if you're trying to protect semiconductors then you want stupid fast fusing sized so that the total I2T energy let-through under the fault condition is less than what the I2T capability of the device you're trying to protect has
2019-11-06T18:14:39 < aandrew> this gets tricky because you have to have an idea what your expected power source fault current capabilities are
2019-11-06T18:15:06 < aandrew> and you need your fuse datasheets, some of them let through surprisingly high amounts of energy before opening up when the source can supply a lot of current
2019-11-06T18:15:39 < aandrew> with heating elements they're a lot more forgiving and you just need to figure out the current level that they'll handle without starting to smoulder
2019-11-06T18:16:25 < bitmask> these batteries have a crazy discharge capability, im using a 20A bms but doubt its very fast
2019-11-06T18:16:44 < bitmask> they are capable of like 200A
2019-11-06T18:17:00 < aandrew> then you need to make sure your fuse can handle that kind of current
2019-11-06T18:17:30 < bitmask> isnt the point of the fuse to not be able to handle that kind of current? :P
2019-11-06T18:17:30 < aandrew> i.e. if your expected draw is like 20A you may want to fuse for 25 or 30A but make sure the fuse you select is able to safely clear a 200A current
2019-11-06T18:18:21 < aandrew> semiconductor fuses in particular are often filled with sand because when the fault occurs there may be an arc, allowing current to flow past what you want. the sand melts and turns to glass, snuffing the arc
2019-11-06T18:18:44 < aandrew> but for heating I don't think you have to worry so much about that
2019-11-06T18:19:17 < aandrew> what's your worst-case draw, add some margin and size the fuse so it opens up in a reasonable time (a second or two?) when it sees that fault current or greater
2019-11-06T18:19:18 < bitmask> right
2019-11-06T18:20:01 < aandrew> I think your bigger issue might be the semiconductor switch shorting, in which case a circuit that detects when the thing is conducting and shouldn't and throws an SCR across the input voltage to pop the fuse
2019-11-06T18:20:18 < bitmask> worst case would probably be 20.5A
2019-11-06T18:20:26 < aandrew> I wouldn't size it that closely
2019-11-06T18:20:34 < aandrew> unless there is good reason
2019-11-06T18:20:43 < aandrew> what happens at 21A, do the elements catch fire?
2019-11-06T18:21:03 < bitmask> oh i just meant thats what it would draw if everything was turned on
2019-11-06T18:21:06 < aandrew> what's the duty cycle rating of the heating elements in the environment that they're in, is it 100%?
2019-11-06T18:21:48 < bitmask> rating? 100% I guess, I may limit it to 50% so that only half the heaters are ever on at once
2019-11-06T18:22:04 < bitmask> depending on how many heaters are being used
2019-11-06T18:22:07 < aandrew> might be worth testing before you turn into a human torch
2019-11-06T18:22:53 < aandrew> throw maximum voltage across a heating element buried in a blanket with a termistor beside it, let it run for 10m, 60m, 600m and see what happens
2019-11-06T18:22:56 < aandrew> then you'll know
2019-11-06T18:23:07 < aandrew> also do that where it won't matter if the blanket catches fire
2019-11-06T18:23:55 < aandrew> I'm assuming these are chinese heating elements and don't have a datasheet with i2t and overload specs that you can trust
2019-11-06T18:24:08 < bitmask> i made them myself out of carbon fiber yarn
2019-11-06T18:24:20 < aandrew> ah so you definitely don't know their ratings then
2019-11-06T18:24:26 < aandrew> that's pretty badass btw, nice.
2019-11-06T18:24:26 < bitmask> nope
2019-11-06T18:24:33 < bitmask> thanks :)
2019-11-06T18:25:54 < bitmask> I have them between two 1mm sheets of silicone now, I thought the silicone would help spread the heat out, which it does, not sure its the best option though as far as comfortability.  its not bad though, just that using fabric would be more seamless
2019-11-06T18:26:50 < bitmask> and I have a thermistor in each panel so the spreading of the heat and stuff all just works better in the silicone for that
2019-11-06T18:28:42 < c10ud> uhhhh it is unclear to me if any of the f7/h7 line is capable of driving a 10.1" 1280x800 display...did you guys know anything about this?
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2019-11-06T18:34:42 < bitmask> hmm, are there no 25A slow blow fuses?
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2019-11-06T18:37:00 < bitmask> ahh there we go
2019-11-06T18:38:21 < bitmask> https://www.mouser.com/ProductDetail/Schurter/3413033222?qs=sGAEpiMZZMsIz3CjQ1xegTEIpQnw74dngeNXi5TNtm0%3D
2019-11-06T18:38:33 < bitmask> something like that or should I go with a regular glass tube thats replaceable?
2019-11-06T18:42:57 < englishman> c10ud: HDMI? mipi? lvds? dp? do you have enough memory for a framebuffer?
2019-11-06T18:44:27 < jpa-> yeah, depends totally on the display
2019-11-06T18:44:42 < jpa-> if it has a controller with built-in framebuffer, almost any microcontroller would be able to drive it
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2019-11-06T18:52:20 < qyx> bitmask: 22x58mm cylindrical!
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2019-11-06T18:54:04 < bitmask> that sounds... big
2019-11-06T18:55:16 < qyx> for big ass batteries with short circuit current in the order of kiloAmps
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2019-11-06T18:58:42 < bitmask> does it matter if you put it low side or high side?
2019-11-06T18:59:32 < jpa-> if there are no other connections to the battery, then it doesn't matter
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2019-11-06T19:01:57 < aandrew> bitmask: I'd absolutely 100% go with something you can replace without having to solder
2019-11-06T19:02:40 < aandrew> I always put on high side because of habit of not breaking the return paths but for battery operated it really doesn't matter
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2019-11-06T19:15:55 < bitmask> maybe I'll get one of those fuse holders that are inline with the battery wire instead of on the board itself
2019-11-06T19:17:29 < bitmask> oh shit I'm 15 min late for my shift
2019-11-06T19:17:35 < bitmask> ohhh well
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2019-11-06T19:27:26 < Laurenceb_> flip those burgurz
2019-11-06T19:27:44 < Laurenceb_> WHERE IS MY HAPPY MEAL BITMASK???
2019-11-06T19:27:51 < Laurenceb_> 15minutes late O_o
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2019-11-06T19:34:29 < kakipro> hello32
2019-11-06T19:37:34 < Steffanx> hello kakip(r)oop
2019-11-06T19:38:08 < kakipro> kakiwaffle
2019-11-06T19:38:14 < Steffanx> Hows the day in finnishland?
2019-11-06T19:38:28 < kakipro> crisp
2019-11-06T19:38:58 < Steffanx> perfect day for a sauna i hear
2019-11-06T19:39:18 < kakipro> should be
2019-11-06T19:40:23 < Steffanx> but
2019-11-06T19:45:27 < zyp> butt
2019-11-06T19:46:37 < englishman> lol
2019-11-06T19:49:06 < Steffanx> dont be such arse.
2019-11-06T19:54:14 < specing> luftkakle
2019-11-06T20:02:19 < con3> eh I forgot the name, what do you call those ic's that switch between two power sources, generally has the main and a backup battery? i remember them as "intellegent switch"
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2019-11-06T20:05:27 < specing> a diode
2019-11-06T20:05:54 < con3> that sounds about right
2019-11-06T20:05:58 < specing> :)
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2019-11-06T20:25:56 < Ultrasauce> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dG_mdn0iXDw today's music spam
2019-11-06T20:28:21 < Steffanx> This is the kind of music that makes me feel weird. Restless.. or.. not sure how to describe it.
2019-11-06T20:28:45 < aandrew> yeah depending on how fancy you want to get a diode can take care of that easily
2019-11-06T20:28:49 < Steffanx> unpleasant.
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2019-11-06T20:30:47 < Ultrasauce> i believe the solution is another 10dB Steffanx
2019-11-06T20:30:54 < Laurenceb_> argg why did I go to sciencemadness
2019-11-06T20:31:00 < Laurenceb_> they are retarded
2019-11-06T20:34:23 < Ultrasauce> one desires to be in good compnay
2019-11-06T20:40:07 < kakipro> I wish some other people would musicspam also
2019-11-06T20:40:18 < Steffanx> not when its this bad
2019-11-06T20:41:51 < Ultrasauce> okay something completely different then https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QOtDq7Qbmh0
2019-11-06T20:42:15 < srk> https://soundcloud.com/noosphere23/teknoid-rossignol-v1
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2019-11-06T20:45:20 < kakipro> here is music video for you Ultrasauce https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QOYcpGnHH0g
2019-11-06T20:50:21 < Ultrasauce> now this is my kinda jam
2019-11-06T20:52:27 < kakipro> ikr
2019-11-06T20:52:45 < kakipro> video also dope
2019-11-06T20:55:54 < kakipro> do you know how they synt that sound?
2019-11-06T20:56:19 < kakipro> oh there is github link there in description i forgot
2019-11-06T21:00:44 < srk> cool
2019-11-06T21:03:08 < Steffanx> best sorting alg: https://youtu.be/kPRA0W1kECg?t=318
2019-11-06T21:05:12 < kakipro> https://youtu.be/QOYcpGnHH0g?t=282 but not as dope as Radix LSD in-place base10
2019-11-06T21:06:53 < srk> yeah that one is dope
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2019-11-06T21:31:34 < Steffanx> Welcome. Please put some pants on, otherwise you're not allowed in, catphish.
2019-11-06T21:31:45 < catphish> no
2019-11-06T21:32:08 < catphish> i literally only just took them off, and there's a cat sitting on me now
2019-11-06T21:32:14 < Steffanx> Ohno, its this THAT phase of your life? The "no"-phase.
2019-11-06T21:36:55 < catphish> Steffanx: yes indeed
2019-11-06T21:36:59 < catphish> see also: https://i.imgur.com/UZ1ypNj.jpg
2019-11-06T21:37:11 < Steffanx> lol hi.
2019-11-06T21:54:14 < kakipro> do rmii signals need serial resistance?
2019-11-06T21:54:27 < kakipro> 107 eval board has 33ohm arrays
2019-11-06T21:54:54 < kakipro> like.. why
2019-11-06T21:56:07 < kakipro> phy eval board has none
2019-11-06T21:56:27 < kakipro> just route to (G)(R)MII connector
2019-11-06T21:56:39 < Steffanx> they might have read wikipedia: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Media-independent_interface it mentions the 33ohm
2019-11-06T21:57:25 < kakipro> smart!
2019-11-06T21:57:38 < Steffanx> also some datasheets mentions it
2019-11-06T21:57:42 < kakipro> also wikipedia as source to engineering
2019-11-06T21:57:43 < Steffanx> -s
2019-11-06T21:57:48 < Steffanx> like http://ww1.microchip.com/downloads/en/DeviceDoc/KSZ8041NL-HW-Design-Checklist-00002498B.pdf
2019-11-06T21:57:55 < kakipro> lemme see mine
2019-11-06T21:58:11 < Steffanx> its not a datasheet, its a checklist. :P
2019-11-06T22:00:13 < kakipro> https://drive.google.com/file/d/1p03e93wLxoL0WIVb94QnES7qhn4-F3Os/view?usp=sharing
2019-11-06T22:00:16 < kakipro> what is dis?
2019-11-06T22:00:32 < Steffanx> artifacts.
2019-11-06T22:00:54 < kakipro> nothing important?
2019-11-06T22:01:27 < kakipro> oh.. artifacts indeed
2019-11-06T22:02:12 < Steffanx> does the eval board even have this phy?
2019-11-06T22:03:01 < kakipro> yes
2019-11-06T22:03:15 < kakipro> it's something like DP83822 EVM
2019-11-06T22:03:40 < kakipro> I read section "Detailed Design Procedure" and it says nothing about series resistance
2019-11-06T22:04:53 < kakipro> it's page 96
2019-11-06T22:06:08 < kakipro> rmii signals are single-ended and should have 50ohm impendance to ground and recommended lenght under 2inches but maximum of 6inches
2019-11-06T22:06:12 < kakipro> thats all to it
2019-11-06T22:08:26 < kakipro> well then
2019-11-06T22:08:34 < kakipro> let's remove some excess components
2019-11-06T22:09:41 < kakipro> https://e2e.ti.com/cfs-file/__key/communityserver-discussions-components-files/138/DP83822I_5F00_Schematic.png
2019-11-06T22:10:33 < kakipro> what is up with adding 0ohm series resistors to INT/NPWDN pin and sometimes to MDIO pin
2019-11-06T22:11:00 < kakipro> 107 eval has 0ohm jumpers in both
2019-11-06T22:11:14 < kakipro> this one has in int/npwdn
2019-11-06T22:12:44 < kakipro> 83822 EVM doens't have them.. just to alternate mcu pin to some other purpose?
2019-11-06T22:17:08 < Steffanx> I guess you dont strictly need it, so you can disconnect it. 
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2019-11-06T22:25:22 < kakipro> is there a thing in schematic editor to make 2 signals diff pair
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2019-11-06T22:26:12 < Steffanx> in kikekad i assume?
2019-11-06T22:26:16 < Steffanx> i guess there is
2019-11-06T22:26:21 < Steffanx> Google knows
2019-11-06T22:27:13 < kakipro> is there actual parameter for such thing in the professional tools?
2019-11-06T22:27:47 < kakipro> or do you just add some symbol to schematic that you can see from schematic that it's a pair
2019-11-06T22:28:14 < Steffanx> even eagle is able to do it.
2019-11-06T22:30:02 < kakipro> net name suffix _P or _N
2019-11-06T22:30:11 < kakipro> also + or - suffix should do
2019-11-06T22:31:16 < kakipro> nothing magical happened
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2019-11-06T22:47:25 < aandrew> kakipro: 0 ohm resistors make great jumpers / cut points
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2019-11-06T23:01:23 < kakipro> sure
2019-11-06T23:01:43 < kakipro> why would you want to cut MDIO?
2019-11-06T23:05:12 < kakipro> if bootstraps were successful and you don't need to configure a thing?
2019-11-06T23:05:20 < kakipro> then release that pin for something else
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2019-11-06T23:33:29 < kakipro> fun you could even bitbang data from GPIO pins of PHY if you wanted to
2019-11-06T23:33:46 < kakipro> you can set output to constant 0 or constant 1
2019-11-06T23:39:25 < kakipro> it's good idea to connect phy reset to mcu gpio pin
2019-11-06T23:39:27 < kakipro> ?
2019-11-06T23:39:40 < aandrew> yep
2019-11-06T23:39:43 < kakipro> mcu resets -> gpio resets -> phy resets
2019-11-06T23:39:47 < aandrew> hard to believe that's a question
2019-11-06T23:40:00 < aandrew> don't tie it to MCU reset like I've seen some turkeys do
2019-11-06T23:40:01 < kakipro> I'm just keeping up conversation
2019-11-06T23:44:31 < kakipro> I think I will do software controlled leds to ethernet connector
2019-11-06T23:44:49 < kakipro> because I want to have all kinds of signals routed to mcu from those led pins
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2019-11-06T23:46:43 < kakipro> I think I will anyway keep all the leds off and only push of "wake button" lits up all the leds and displays
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2019-11-06T23:57:12 < kakipro> I'm thinking of combining 1588 RX indication and WoL indication to same pin but maybe better have separate pins as timer pin used for 1588 indication may not be active in lower power states
2019-11-06T23:57:38 < kakipro> there could be also wakeup circuit with multiple sources
2019-11-06T23:58:08 < aandrew> well 1588 can trigger TIM2 so any TIM2 output can be used for that, but if you want PPS direct from the MAC it must be on PB5 I think
2019-11-06T23:58:10 < aandrew> (check the ds)
2019-11-06T23:58:29 < kakipro> the PHY doesn't have pps
2019-11-06T23:58:37 < aandrew> the MAC does
2019-11-06T23:58:43 < kakipro> yes
2019-11-06T23:58:51 < kakipro> i don't really know what it is
2019-11-06T23:59:03 < kakipro> I know how rx and tx indications work though
2019-11-06T23:59:08 < aandrew> that's what I'm saying: if you want PPS dierct from MAC you don't have many pin options. PB5 for sure but I don't know offhand if there's another
2019-11-06T23:59:22 < kakipro> I don't
2019-11-06T23:59:26 < kakipro> afaik
2019-11-06T23:59:40 < aandrew> but if you want to use ITR1 to connect MAC PTP alarm to TIM2 trigger, then use any of TIM2's outputs you have more options
2019-11-06T23:59:57 < aandrew> I'm working on this literally as I type this
--- Day changed Thu Nov 07 2019
2019-11-07T00:00:12 < kakipro> arent these indications phy to mac both of them?
2019-11-07T00:00:20 < aandrew> due to a routing fuckup, I have MAC PTP -- ITR1 --> TIM2 -- ITR1 --> TIM3 --> output
2019-11-07T00:00:31 < kakipro> oh wow
2019-11-07T00:00:52 < aandrew> yeah my prototypes are fine but when they took the sch to make the real thing they didn't pay attention
2019-11-07T00:00:59 < kakipro> stm32 surelly is ready to work around any routing fuckups
2019-11-07T00:01:08 < aandrew> luckily the FPGA 'go' signal was on one of TIM3's outputs
2019-11-07T00:01:53 < kakipro> are tx and rx indications both phy -> mcu?
2019-11-07T00:02:31 < kakipro> start of frame indications to be exact
2019-11-07T00:02:54 < kakipro> you were talking about timer outputs
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2019-11-07T00:03:18 < aandrew> you were talking about 1588
2019-11-07T00:04:07 < aandrew> STM32 MAC has two 1588-related signals: PPS output which is normally 125ms positive pulse every 1000ms, and PTP alarm which is a signal that triggers an interrupt and which can be tied to TIM2 as an internal trigger
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2019-11-07T00:05:06 < kakipro> http://www.ti.com/lit/gpn/dp83822i page28
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2019-11-07T00:05:59 < aandrew> oh that is different than the MAC 1588
2019-11-07T00:06:01 < qyx> excuse my dumb question, what works as a PTP master?
2019-11-07T00:06:06 < aandrew> anything
2019-11-07T00:06:25 < qyx> anything on the network can broadcast such 1pps signal?
2019-11-07T00:06:27 < aandrew> all the master does is send sync and followup UDP messages, and respond to delay request UDP messages
2019-11-07T00:06:33 < aandrew> correct
2019-11-07T00:06:55 < qyx> ty, fast learning
2019-11-07T00:07:02 < aandrew> linux box running ptpd, windows running domain time 2, dedicated hardware with GPS acting as a PTP grandmaster...
2019-11-07T00:07:23 < qyx> si it is basically a hardware assisted ntp?
2019-11-07T00:07:32 < qyx> *so
2019-11-07T00:07:34 < kakipro> more than ntp
2019-11-07T00:07:58 < kakipro> ntp is like seconds level accuracy
2019-11-07T00:08:02 < kakipro> or so
2019-11-07T00:08:28 < qyx> I am taling feature-wise
2019-11-07T00:08:36 < kakipro> ptp is like synching instruments to same phase via ethernets
2019-11-07T00:08:37 < qyx> also ntp can go <10ms
2019-11-07T00:08:45 < kakipro> yes
2019-11-07T00:09:10 < kakipro> that is nowhere near to sync anything time critical
2019-11-07T00:10:23 < Laurenceb_> wut
2019-11-07T00:10:26 < aandrew> well NTP is meant for internet time sync. PTP is local (LAN) time sync
2019-11-07T00:10:41 < Laurenceb_> leobodnar got ns accuracy with ntp
2019-11-07T00:10:46 < aandrew> generally speaking NTP for <10ms, PTP for <1us
2019-11-07T00:11:01 < Steffanx> Leo is a myth, Laurenceb_ 
2019-11-07T00:11:09 < aandrew> PTP needs hardware assistance to get down to sub-microsecond
2019-11-07T00:11:22 < aandrew> I don't believe leo got nanosecond accuracy with NTP
2019-11-07T00:11:33 < kakipro> does NTP support PTP?
2019-11-07T00:11:44 < aandrew> NTP and PTP play nicely together but are separate daemons
2019-11-07T00:12:00 < Laurenceb_> hmmm
2019-11-07T00:12:04 < kakipro> PTP is just a sync event right
2019-11-07T00:12:13 < kakipro> why 1pps?
2019-11-07T00:12:15 < aandrew> usually you use NTP to get a grandmaster to a certain accuracy and then synchronize everyoen to that using PTP
2019-11-07T00:12:22 < aandrew> kakipro: well it'sa  couple things
2019-11-07T00:12:23 < kakipro> does it need to be 1pps
2019-11-07T00:12:38 < aandrew> sync/followup pairs are generally 1pps
2019-11-07T00:12:50 < Laurenceb_> he uses macbook so I couldnt quite work out what he was using the benchmark
2019-11-07T00:12:51 < aandrew> then delay request/delay response are 0.25-ish pps
2019-11-07T00:13:00 < aandrew> but you can adjust all that
2019-11-07T00:13:01 < kakipro> with my phy it's impossible to 1pps right?
2019-11-07T00:13:16 < Laurenceb_> it was a report from the osx ntpd thing 
2019-11-07T00:13:17 < aandrew> then there's a PLL/servo that is used to adjust the clock and smooth out jitter
2019-11-07T00:13:36 < kakipro> you just know when the time of tx event and rx event
2019-11-07T00:13:38 < aandrew> kakipro: well those SFD GPIO outputs are helpful for PTP yes
2019-11-07T00:13:42 < aandrew> but not if the MAC can already do it
2019-11-07T00:13:53 < kakipro> can it?
2019-11-07T00:14:03 < aandrew> if you had a MAC that did not have 1588 support you would take those SFD ios and tie them to timer inputs
2019-11-07T00:14:16 < aandrew> STM32 MACs have 1588 support, at least the ones I've used
2019-11-07T00:14:18 < aandrew> look at the RM
2019-11-07T00:14:31 < turnip420> ttps://www.anandtech.com/show/15070/nvidia-gives-jetson-xavier-a-trim-announces-nanosized-jetson-xavier-nx
2019-11-07T00:15:47 < Steffanx> Where is the h turnip420  
2019-11-07T00:16:55 < karlp> hrm, esp1488 consistently reports 410us (+- ~3us) for timing a pulse width.  (gpio extis, does it have input capture? who knows!)  LA shows it's actyually consistenyl 432.5us (+- 0.5us)
2019-11-07T00:17:07 < kakipro> aandrew: what happens at 1pps pulse in phy?
2019-11-07T00:17:16 < kakipro> does it send an ethernet packet?
2019-11-07T00:17:21 < aandrew> kakipro: read the datasheet
2019-11-07T00:17:22 < aandrew> normally not
2019-11-07T00:17:30 < karlp> is it going to be a fixe doffset for latency? or dependent on width
2019-11-07T00:17:32 < aandrew> some PHYs have some fairly advanced 1588 support built in
2019-11-07T00:18:13 < karlp> yarh, stupid allwinner one driver at least reports no 1588 support and I'm like, for realz? it's stmmac! it's common IP? no ptp? laaaaame
2019-11-07T00:18:23 < kakipro> is there any timing precision benefit to use sfd signals from phy directly compared to mac sfd signals?
2019-11-07T00:18:54 < kakipro> ill look at that ti precision phytter that is in 107 eval
2019-11-07T00:19:33 < aandrew> kakipro: nope
2019-11-07T00:19:40 < aandrew> it's the same thing that's inside the STM32 
2019-11-07T00:20:36 < kakipro> well this clears up things
2019-11-07T00:21:20 < karlp> ok, almost two nights to get esp1488 fucking gpio interrupts timing using esp-rtos instead of arduino, but ok.
2019-11-07T00:21:29 < karlp> ultrasonic measure is ok now
2019-11-07T00:21:41 < kakipro> sounds fucked up
2019-11-07T00:23:50 < kakipro> but now I can led leds be leds
2019-11-07T00:23:56 < kakipro> *let
2019-11-07T00:24:52 < qyx> kakipro: what are you measuring?
2019-11-07T00:24:55 < qyx> no.
2019-11-07T00:24:57 < qyx> karlp: ^
2019-11-07T00:25:10 < qyx> IoT snow level sensor?
2019-11-07T00:25:13 < karlp> looking at hacking up a little toy for the girls.
2019-11-07T00:25:33 < karlp> ultrasonic "wand" point it at things, ws2812 led string for "distance indication"
2019-11-07T00:25:36 < kakipro> my project name is nodepower
2019-11-07T00:25:54 < karlp> got one of these https://uk.pi-supply.com/products/ultrasonic-distance-sensor-hy-srf05 years ago, never used it.
2019-11-07T00:26:00 < kakipro> it's for remote self sustained network nodes
2019-11-07T00:26:10 < karlp> got a demo of distance+leds in arduino land on esp8266 in a few hours.
2019-11-07T00:26:22 < kakipro> battery management, regulators, outputs that are switched on and off by mcu
2019-11-07T00:26:32 < aandrew> karlp: nice, I have a dozen of those from somem kit... it's in my "from china" bucket
2019-11-07T00:26:37 < kakipro> it's energy management basically
2019-11-07T00:26:51 < karlp> wanted to use the esp-rtos for reasons, ideally to make it easier to do the _rest_ of the shit like wifi updates and things
2019-11-07T00:27:17 < qyx> kakipro: what for
2019-11-07T00:27:39 < qyx> want to share?
2019-11-07T00:27:48 < kakipro> for stuff like remote monitoring, wireless links etc.
2019-11-07T00:27:56 < qyx> interesting
2019-11-07T00:28:03 < qyx> want to cooperate?
2019-11-07T00:28:17 < kakipro> what you suggest?
2019-11-07T00:28:28 < qyx> again it seems we are all doing the same all over
2019-11-07T00:28:38 < kakipro> same project?
2019-11-07T00:28:39 < qyx> I have some ideas and devices field testing
2019-11-07T00:28:46 < qyx> for ~3 years
2019-11-07T00:28:50 < kakipro> you have done this already?
2019-11-07T00:29:05 < qyx> basically a remote daq, unattended
2019-11-07T00:29:09 < qyx> with solar power, batt mgmt
2019-11-07T00:29:13 < qyx> modular architecture
2019-11-07T00:29:16 < qyx> I am redoing it now a bit
2019-11-07T00:29:22 < kakipro> shieet
2019-11-07T00:29:22 < qyx> to fit inside a subrack style chassis
2019-11-07T00:29:34 < kakipro> exact same thing that I'm doing
2019-11-07T00:29:41 < kakipro> you have web page for it?
2019-11-07T00:29:52 < qyx> I have some things documented, yeah
2019-11-07T00:30:02 < kakipro> show me what it does
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2019-11-07T00:32:20 < qyx> I would
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2019-11-07T00:36:55 < turnip420> Steffanx: wut
2019-11-07T00:37:08 < karlp> https://github.com/karlp/esp-ultrasonic-leds so far if you'r einto that sort of thing.
2019-11-07T00:43:01 < Steffanx> ttps is not a proper way to start a url turnip420  
2019-11-07T00:45:29 < karlp> yeah, that bothere dme too :) 
2019-11-07T00:46:39 < aandrew> that didn't bother me as much as the cmake. you're a glutton for punishment
2019-11-07T00:47:28 < aandrew> actaully this is part of the IDF isn't it
2019-11-07T00:47:31 < aandrew> so it's not your doing 
2019-11-07T00:48:34 < aandrew> hm I'm not getting this
2019-11-07T00:48:46 < aandrew> I've got hte PTP alarm apparently firing every 100ms
2019-11-07T00:49:00 < aandrew> i.e. get interrupt, read time set alarm for 100ms in future, re-arm interrupt
2019-11-07T00:49:06 < aandrew> the interrupts are working fine
2019-11-07T00:49:14 < turnip420> lol sorry
2019-11-07T00:49:15 < aandrew> but the TIM2 trigger is only occuring once a second
2019-11-07T00:49:16 < turnip420> got i
2019-11-07T00:49:27 < turnip420> it
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2019-11-07T01:09:03 < aandrew> https://imgur.com/a/WrjhNgB
2019-11-07T01:09:16 < aandrew> does that look like an interrupt storm to you? led should be toggling 10x a second
2019-11-07T01:10:24 < Mangy_Dog> never heard of an interupt storm
2019-11-07T01:10:45 < Mangy_Dog> is that the micro equiv of a DOS? :p
2019-11-07T01:13:43 < aandrew> haha yes
2019-11-07T01:16:05 < aandrew> yep definitely an interrupt storm
2019-11-07T01:16:35 < karlp> hrm, neopixel port library to rtos doesn't work.
2019-11-07T01:17:04 < aandrew> getting an interrupt about every 1.3us with brief periods of reprieve
2019-11-07T01:17:20 < aandrew> essentially PWMing without intending to do so
2019-11-07T01:18:08 < Mangy_Dog> karlp
2019-11-07T01:18:10 < Mangy_Dog> funny you say that
2019-11-07T01:18:22 < Mangy_Dog> I had issues with the bitbang library that i ported to f103
2019-11-07T01:18:34 < Mangy_Dog> and freertos
2019-11-07T01:19:19 < karlp> this is https://github.com/THKDev/NeoPixelBus_ESP8266_RTOS/commits/master, allegedly a "works out of the box" experience"
2019-11-07T01:20:03 < aandrew> (void)(heth->Instance)->PTPTSSR;
2019-11-07T01:20:11 < aandrew> should that not read the indicated register?
2019-11-07T01:22:06 < aandrew> yes, it looks right
2019-11-07T01:22:40 < aandrew> LDR.W R3, [R3, #0x728], R3 being 0x40028000
2019-11-07T01:23:49 < aandrew> and ozone tells me it is clearing the bits as it should
2019-11-07T01:27:21 < aandrew> ah, that works a lot better
2019-11-07T01:29:26 < catphish> is c++ as insanely synatxed as it looks? or will i get used to it?
2019-11-07T01:38:25 < kakipro> there is a logic to it
2019-11-07T01:38:33 < aandrew> sigh
2019-11-07T01:38:37 < aandrew> I'm too fucking stupid to live
2019-11-07T01:38:44 < kakipro> it's not the syntax you should be afraid of catphish
2019-11-07T01:38:49 < aandrew> ptp_gettime(&current_time);
2019-11-07T01:38:51 < kakipro> aandrew: tell me about it
2019-11-07T01:39:04 < aandrew> new_ns = current_time.ns + 100000000;
2019-11-07T01:39:19 < aandrew> current_time.sec += new_ns / 1000000000;
2019-11-07T01:39:31 < aandrew> current_time.ns -= (new_ns / 1000000000) * 1000000000;
2019-11-07T01:39:44 < kakipro> dumbi you
2019-11-07T01:39:50 < aandrew> ptp_setalarm(current_time.s, current_time.ns);
2019-11-07T01:39:56 < aandrew> head. fucking. desk.
2019-11-07T01:40:07 < aandrew> the fix?
2019-11-07T01:40:12 < aandrew> - ptp_setalarm(current_time.s, current_time.ns);
2019-11-07T01:40:20 < aandrew> + ptp_setalarm(current_time.s, new_ns);
2019-11-07T01:40:21 < kakipro> you are headfucking the desk?
2019-11-07T01:40:51 < aandrew> I'm frustrated, gotta work out this angry energy
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2019-11-07T01:44:15 < catphish> i quite like OOP, but C++ is weird and new to me :)
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2019-11-07T01:57:07 < kakipr0> what do you think of using as old chip as f107?
2019-11-07T01:57:14 < qyx> aandrew: what if the second changes too before setting the alarm?
2019-11-07T01:58:56 < aandrew> that's exactly what the normalization is for
2019-11-07T01:59:30 < aandrew> if it's say 123.98s, I add 100ns so it becomes 124.08s
2019-11-07T02:00:16 < aandrew> if nanoseconds becomes larger than a billion, I add a second and subtract off a billion
2019-11-07T02:00:37 < aandrew> I could make that math simpler (no divs) since the alarm time won't ever roll over multiple seconds
2019-11-07T02:03:30 < qyx> oh I read only the last line :x
2019-11-07T02:04:12 < aandrew> kakipr0: if it meets your needs and isn't EOL, why not
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2019-11-07T02:43:13 < kakipr0> https://sienimetsa.com:15443/index.php/s/M2C2BnWpReTeoyd
2019-11-07T02:47:13 < kakipr0> they went nutts when I made kaalib
2019-11-07T02:47:20 < kakipr0> I still hear about it
2019-11-07T02:48:43 < kakipr0> memetized
2019-11-07T02:51:29 < dongs> what the shit is taht site
2019-11-07T02:52:23 < Laurenceb_> stratosolar is dead
2019-11-07T02:52:30 < Laurenceb_> epin fail
2019-11-07T02:53:07 < Laurenceb_> the tethers to their anchored stratospheric platform will ice up in bad weather
2019-11-07T02:53:12 < Laurenceb_> derp
2019-11-07T02:53:28 < sync> you can just heat them
2019-11-07T02:54:05 < Laurenceb_> yeah thats what I was looking at
2019-11-07T02:54:22 < Laurenceb_> turns out it uses up more energy than the platform generates
2019-11-07T02:54:46 < BrainDamage> even if they ice up, cannot you just find a material which can sustain the fatigue when frozen?
2019-11-07T02:55:16 < BrainDamage> you'll get shorter lifespan, but at least you don't require constant energy
2019-11-07T02:55:55 < Laurenceb_> nah the ice will outweight the platform in many weather conditions
2019-11-07T02:57:10 < Laurenceb_> I guess a motorized rover could drive up and down the tethers spraying antifreeze 
2019-11-07T02:57:20 < Laurenceb_> but thats guessing solar roadways tier silly
2019-11-07T02:57:24 < BrainDamage> why not mechanically break them?
2019-11-07T02:57:36 < Laurenceb_> would probably fatigue the lines
2019-11-07T02:57:47 < Laurenceb_> maybe a travelling wave could be sent up or down
2019-11-07T02:58:02 < Laurenceb_> the lines are polyester, so failure fatigue tolerant
2019-11-07T03:00:12 < BrainDamage> would an hydrophobic coating also help? if water doesn't stick efficiently less ice would build up
2019-11-07T03:00:54 < BrainDamage> altought it'd need maintenance because weather would slowly strip away
2019-11-07T03:01:14 < BrainDamage> perhaps a 2 way pulley so you can rotate the cable to the ground to spray a new surface
2019-11-07T03:01:23 < Laurenceb_> those coating were tried for aircraft, they dont seem to work irl
2019-11-07T03:01:27 < Laurenceb_> hmm nice place 
2019-11-07T03:01:34 < Laurenceb_> *plan
2019-11-07T03:02:20 < Laurenceb_> just rotating the line would solve the issue under most/all conditions, as the ice would sublime at other points in the atmosphere
2019-11-07T03:04:33 < catphish> c++ wasn't too hard in the end, managed to get wxwidgets and libusb to play nice, now to write the rest of the app :) https://i.imgur.com/gTYoW1Q.png
2019-11-07T03:05:24 < Laurenceb_> this problem doesnt appear anywhere on the stratosolar site that has been going since 2010...
2019-11-07T03:05:30 < Laurenceb_> not sure if stupid or scam
2019-11-07T03:06:01 < Laurenceb_> he even talks about lightning striking the lines, but not line icing
2019-11-07T03:08:12 < Laurenceb_> maybe if I email him about this he will seppuku
2019-11-07T03:10:05 < BrainDamage> since the line weight that's going towards ground is heavier than the one going up the motor that's driving the pulley will also have to do not a lot of effort
2019-11-07T03:10:35 < BrainDamage> just the elastic deformation and atmospheric drag
2019-11-07T03:12:31 < kakipr0> https://drive.google.com/file/d/11hFev83v4A_sdJRg4G8U2O9bbeKjbBX0/view?usp=sharing now I need just power switching to ethernet block
2019-11-07T03:13:27 < Laurenceb_> I'm not sure that would always be true
2019-11-07T03:14:02 < Laurenceb_> icing happens in the lower troposphere, and the platform is at 20km
2019-11-07T03:14:46 < BrainDamage> ah, I assumed it was at higher altitudes
2019-11-07T03:16:23 < Laurenceb_> yeah 20km was optimal for low windspeed and icing at the platform, but they never considered tether icing...
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2019-11-07T03:18:32 < kakipr0> is this true.. phy let's me have power supply ramp of 100ms
2019-11-07T03:18:36 < kakipr0> also
2019-11-07T03:18:58 < kakipr0> VDDIO and AVD supplys can have ramp separation of 100ms
2019-11-07T03:19:13 < kakipr0> this is more than generous
2019-11-07T03:19:50 < kakipr0> it that is not enough it doesn't matter which ramps up first
2019-11-07T03:21:22 < dongs> what
2019-11-07T03:21:31 < dongs> screenshots on stratosolar looks like something they whipped up in kerbal space program
2019-11-07T03:21:38 < dongs> is this a troll site
2019-11-07T03:23:02 < kakipr0> what do you think of having local regulator for mcu and local regulator for eth VDDIO with matching voltages?
2019-11-07T03:23:13 < dongs> waste of board space
2019-11-07T03:23:18 < dongs> why the fuck would you need separate regularots
2019-11-07T03:24:34 < kakipr0> i may not need
2019-11-07T03:24:47 < kakipr0> I'm going to switch that ethernet off and on though
2019-11-07T03:24:58 < kakipr0> also I will have 5volt mid rail
2019-11-07T03:25:32 < kakipr0> because it doesn't make sense to make all the small voltages from higher level voltage individually
2019-11-07T03:25:56 < kakipr0> not like soft shutdown but hard shutdown
2019-11-07T03:26:31 < kakipr0> VDDIO and AVD to 0volts
2019-11-07T03:27:18 < kakipr0> AVD has it's own local regulator already
2019-11-07T03:28:38 < sync> Laurenceb_: they just run it where it never ices in the atmosphere
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2019-11-07T03:29:01 < kakipr0> dongs: about the wasted board space http://ww1.microchip.com/downloads/en/DeviceDoc/mic23050.pdf
2019-11-07T03:29:01 < Laurenceb_> >the magic atmosphere
2019-11-07T03:29:30 < kakipr0> couple of sot23 and pile of passives doesn't use much less space
2019-11-07T03:30:16 < dongs> why doyou even care about switching ethernet on and off
2019-11-07T03:30:25 < dongs> also doesnt phy have sleep mode where it uses almost no power anywayt
2019-11-07T03:31:02 < kakipr0> it uses tons of power
2019-11-07T03:33:56 < dongs> so put it in sleep mode
2019-11-07T03:33:58 < kakipr0> 27mW in lowest power state
2019-11-07T03:34:06 < kakipr0> that is deep shut down
2019-11-07T03:34:11 < kakipr0> unacceptable
2019-11-07T03:34:20 < kakipr0> 50mW in active sleep
2019-11-07T03:34:59 < Ultrasauce> is there perhaps a specification for what the state of all the input pins should be to minimize the quiescent current in sleep?
2019-11-07T03:35:07 < kakipr0> also that
2019-11-07T03:35:52 < kakipr0> there is bootstrapping dividers on those signals
2019-11-07T03:36:50 < kakipr0> but 27mW is unacceptable when only another thing active would be NTC alarm and wakeup pin
2019-11-07T03:37:32 < kakipr0> network have been shut down by this device so there is nothing to receive or transmit
2019-11-07T03:37:58 < kakipr0> and everything is battery powered
2019-11-07T03:44:38 < kakipr0> it's done
2019-11-07T03:47:42 < qyx> kakipr0: you cannot switch AVDD off
2019-11-07T03:47:49 < kakipr0> why?
2019-11-07T03:47:50 < qyx> VDDIO probably too
2019-11-07T03:47:59 < qyx> because datasheet abs maxratings says so
2019-11-07T03:48:15 < kakipr0> what if I switch them both?
2019-11-07T03:48:34 < kakipr0> using same powerswitch signal to both regulators EN pin?
2019-11-07T03:49:19 < qyx> also wat
2019-11-07T03:49:23 < qyx> does f107 have vddio?
2019-11-07T03:49:47 < kakipr0> I'm talkin about PHY
2019-11-07T03:50:03 < kakipr0> what is your favourite testpoint size?
2019-11-07T03:50:15 < qyx> I don't know about the phy then
2019-11-07T03:50:30 < kakipr0> it says nothing in abs max
2019-11-07T03:50:38 < kakipr0> only in powerup timing
2019-11-07T03:51:07 < kakipr0> f107 will be powered down only in gross undervoltage situation
2019-11-07T03:51:46 < qyx> so the phy has vddio + avdd
2019-11-07T03:51:57 < qyx> why aren't you powering them from the same source?
2019-11-07T03:52:47 < kakipr0> to halve power consumption
2019-11-07T03:54:37 < kakipr0> avd = 1.8V
2019-11-07T03:56:44 < kakipr0> 2.5 is not an option for AVD
2019-11-07T03:57:01 < kakipr0> also 2.5 logic would make it weird to connect external logic
2019-11-07T03:57:15 < kakipr0> so logic 3.3 and avd 1.8
2019-11-07T04:06:22 < kakipr0> I almost went full autism with testpoints
2019-11-07T04:06:33 < kakipr0> but now there is 4 in ethernet block
2019-11-07T04:06:41 < kakipr0> voltage rails and 2 gnds
2019-11-07T04:06:51 < kakipr0> I had urge to add one per net
2019-11-07T04:12:30 < Ultrasauce> just dont use soldermask
2019-11-07T04:12:33 < Ultrasauce> every trace is a tp
2019-11-07T04:14:24 < kakipr0> cool retro look
2019-11-07T04:14:33 < kakipr0> also more price
2019-11-07T04:14:52 < kakipr0> unless you draw a retangle in soldermask layer and order with solder mask
2019-11-07T04:15:11 < Laurenceb_> BrainDamage: I had an idea: longitudinal waves in the tether
2019-11-07T04:15:12 < BrainDamage> put soldermask everywhere but where the traces are
2019-11-07T04:15:25 < Laurenceb_> ice behaviour is interesting
2019-11-07T04:15:44 < Laurenceb_> at high strain rates its very brittle
2019-11-07T04:16:22 < Laurenceb_> back of envelope suggests it would work...
2019-11-07T04:16:43 < Laurenceb_> problem is a huge ~100kg hammer system needs to hang up in the air
2019-11-07T04:17:14 < Laurenceb_> aviation authorities/ risk assessments would not like that
2019-11-07T04:18:41 < Laurenceb_> there are tons of papers on this problem from quebec hydro, they lots tons of lines to icing
2019-11-07T04:20:41 < kakipr0> ##aviation32?
2019-11-07T04:22:53 < Laurenceb_> this works much better with polyester as the elongation at the fatigue limit is way more than steel cable, also no insulators to leak off energy
2019-11-07T04:28:06 < jadew> google sucks so much
2019-11-07T04:28:42 < jadew> they're not showing moving previews for videos they think you are more likely to be interested in
2019-11-07T04:28:57 < jadew> (to increase the odds of you clicking on them)
2019-11-07T04:29:39 < jadew> so in a list of say 20 recommended videos on the right, a couple of them don't have moving previews
2019-11-07T04:29:45 < jadew> they're basically click baiting you
2019-11-07T04:31:47 < kakipr0> oh
2019-11-07T04:31:50 < kakipr0> that is how it works
2019-11-07T04:32:01 < kakipr0> I thought it was all just glitch
2019-11-07T04:32:52 < jadew> that's exactly what they want you to think :)
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2019-11-07T04:36:41 < kakipr0> it's bedtime maybe
2019-11-07T04:36:53 < kakipr0> my ethernet block is pretty much done
2019-11-07T04:37:24 < kakipr0> just footprint to those grain of sugar sized buck regulators
2019-11-07T04:37:35 < Laurenceb_> youtube suggestings are at their worst ever
2019-11-07T04:37:54 < Laurenceb_> they arent even trying to make it politically correct anymore
2019-11-07T04:38:02 < Laurenceb_> its just pure corporate drivel
2019-11-07T04:38:13 < Laurenceb_> literally pay to get suggested
2019-11-07T04:38:40 < Laurenceb_> I'd rather watch breadtube
2019-11-07T04:41:47 < kakipr0> you can get views now in tubes lurencer
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2019-11-07T05:32:02 < kakinull> chat me to sleep
2019-11-07T05:32:32 < kakinull> chat me lights out
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2019-11-07T08:26:47 < rue_mohr> ok, I think I'v written a better ads1115 library than the stuff I found online
2019-11-07T08:30:21 < Thorn> rue_mohr: have a piano playing cat https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ypJDXayM5FM
2019-11-07T08:30:38 < rue_mohr> haha, mhmm
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2019-11-07T08:47:06 < rue_mohr> ok it compiles!
2019-11-07T08:47:15 < rue_mohr> ok, wrong channel, toooo many open...
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2019-11-07T09:16:45 < Thorn> lol the radio in ezr32 is not memory mapped, it's connected to the mcu via internal gpio pins which are supposed to be configured as spi
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2019-11-07T09:39:53 < c10ud> englishman, yes I would place some memory along with the mcu...as for connecting to the display first choice would be parallel rgb but I'm open to other options
2019-11-07T09:46:59 < zyp> Thorn, so basically they've just stacked a radio die on top of the mcu die and bonded them
2019-11-07T09:47:05 < c10ud> I was making some tests with cubemx and it's limiting to 1024x768..while some other stm32 application note says the fb can be as big as 4k
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2019-11-07T09:51:20 < Thorn> and the family reference manual is not available on silabs.com. I found it on farnell. wtf
2019-11-07T09:53:35 < jly> Thorn: is stm8 alright.... do you know?
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2019-11-07T09:56:28 < Thorn> so I'm really not sure if I should consider moving away from stm32l0 + si4463 to a ezr32hg which seems to be efm32hg + si4463 in one package
2019-11-07T09:56:44 < Thorn> (one die or 2 dies, no idea about that)
2019-11-07T09:56:56 < jly> or 6 million dies
2019-11-07T09:57:31 < Thorn> if I had to minimize pcb area as much as possible then it would make sense
2019-11-07T09:59:51 < Thorn> oh and si4463 runs from 1.8V min while the ezr needs 1.95V min
2019-11-07T10:00:06 < Thorn> so it wouldn't use up a coin cell completely
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2019-11-07T10:11:47 < PaulFertser> Hm, just desoldered SoC from my failed HAME MPR-A15 clone and it looks like few balls weren't soldered to the SoC itself. How is it possible, is it common for BGA SoCs (ralink in this specific case) to be shipped without balls?
2019-11-07T10:12:50 < effractur> some connections are NC
2019-11-07T10:12:54 < effractur> on some sockets
2019-11-07T10:13:59 < jly> i was shipped without balls
2019-11-07T10:18:42 < PaulFertser> effractur: I'm not talking about sockets, I'm talking about RT5350f, BGA196.
2019-11-07T10:19:34 < PaulFertser> According to the datasheet it comes with balls.
2019-11-07T10:20:31 < PaulFertser> But few pads on the SoC I removed (with hot air) are clearly just yellow, not tinned at all.
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2019-11-07T10:28:04 < zyp> sounds like a production fuckup
2019-11-07T10:28:30 < PaulFertser> Well yes, but I fail to imagine circumstances that might have lead to it.
2019-11-07T10:30:22 < PaulFertser> Are BGA parts like that ever shipped without balls?
2019-11-07T10:30:52 < Steffanx> Sounds all fucked up
2019-11-07T10:30:54 < zyp> that's not my understanding
2019-11-07T10:31:20 < zyp> I mean, china is full of reballing shit, but I figure that's for repairs
2019-11-07T10:36:02 < PaulFertser> Indeed, but how come I see untinned pads on the SoC itself?
2019-11-07T10:37:08 < jly> see it and you'll believe it
2019-11-07T10:37:28 < PaulFertser> jly: I kinda believe my eyes. But I can't imagine circumstances potentially leading to that.
2019-11-07T10:37:48 < jly> my friend's cat likes to lick her eyeball in the morning
2019-11-07T10:38:42 < PaulFertser> Does it help with her vision?
2019-11-07T10:39:32 < Steffanx> The chinese read NC and that is what they did
2019-11-07T10:39:34 < PaulFertser> Also, cats' tongues are damn tough and sharp, like a sandpaper.
2019-11-07T10:39:48 < Steffanx> Yeah its awful
2019-11-07T10:40:00 < PaulFertser> Steffanx: I assumed a SoC would come from ralink with balls soldered. And the datasheet seems to imply that's the only way it can be.
2019-11-07T10:40:20 < jly> i'm talking to my bga friend
2019-11-07T10:40:41 < jly> oh for fucks sake he's on the phone again
2019-11-07T10:40:48 < jly> this is more important!!!
2019-11-07T10:43:49 < PaulFertser> Wish I had some minimal reballing equipment, would try it just for the kicks.
2019-11-07T10:44:26 < jly> same
2019-11-07T10:46:24 < zyp> PaulFertser, so obviously ralink fucked up
2019-11-07T10:46:35 < zyp> also, can't you just get some reballing equipment?
2019-11-07T10:48:04 < PaulFertser> zyp: I'd need to get stencil specifically for this BAG196 package and some decent paste (which I won't be able to use anyhow else) so I guess not worth it. 
2019-11-07T10:48:28 < zyp> do you need paste?
2019-11-07T10:48:35 < PaulFertser> To form balls.
2019-11-07T10:49:04 < PaulFertser> Or I need to buy balls and have special "sieve"
2019-11-07T10:49:28 < zyp> yeah, that's how I've seen it done
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2019-11-07T11:04:38 < jly> BGA packages with balls missing are blogged on eevblog
2019-11-07T11:04:51 < jly> DDR rahmz
2019-11-07T11:05:33 < PaulFertser> jly: with balls never ever present?
2019-11-07T11:14:50 < jly> apparently 
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2019-11-07T12:04:50 < karlp> why were you taking it off?
2019-11-07T12:26:20 < Cracki> watch a dude exploring storm drains and sounding absolutely excited about it https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Djf_IrNF6N4
2019-11-07T12:26:34 < PaulFertser> karlp: the device was overheating and then stopped booting altogether.
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2019-11-07T12:58:27 < con3|2> Anyone here had an issue in altium where they change the connect style rule of a polygon pour but it doesnt change even when repouring?
2019-11-07T12:59:11 < zyp> no, check that it's the right net
2019-11-07T13:01:51 < con3|2> omg, im an idiot
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2019-11-07T13:02:21 < zyp> ha :)
2019-11-07T13:02:48 < con3> I missed an option, opening the connect style rule it shows two, but you can scroll for the third option (via connection)
2019-11-07T13:03:30  * con3 adds another point to idiot score
2019-11-07T13:15:47 < Cracki> collapsing culvert pipe https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IAycBJ8RB4c
2019-11-07T13:16:02 < karlp> busy day in the office? :)
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2019-11-07T13:41:47 < Thorn> is a stencil supposed to have holes for BGAs?
2019-11-07T13:45:25 < Thorn> a stencil for automated assembly
2019-11-07T13:46:27 < zyp> you mean whether bgas need solder paste?
2019-11-07T13:46:49 < zyp> I believe they usually do
2019-11-07T13:48:18 < Cracki> from all the bga rework I've seen, they either come with balls or you ball them before soldering... so I would imagine the stencil to have no holes at all
2019-11-07T13:48:28 < Cracki> but that's rework
2019-11-07T13:49:35 < Cracki> missing balls under bga would be explained by the paste getting stuck in the stencil
2019-11-07T13:49:40 < Thorn> what about automated assembly though. who would put flux on the pcb then
2019-11-07T13:49:51 < Cracki> I'd believe zyp
2019-11-07T13:51:00 < zyp> bgas come with balls, but I don't think they are meant to be enough solder for the entire joint
2019-11-07T13:51:17 < zyp> so you put paste on the board as well, and they both melt during reflow
2019-11-07T13:53:38 < zyp> https://bin.jvnv.net/file/QYhd6.JPG https://bin.jvnv.net/file/1r2uh.JPG
2019-11-07T13:54:00 < zyp> that's my home soldered bga, put paste on the board first
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2019-11-07T14:11:39 < catphish> yay found a local company who can do my assembly work for me :)
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2019-11-07T14:23:24 < Thorn> zyp: is it true for all bgas or some specific ones? re not enough solder in a ball for good contact
2019-11-07T14:26:12 < zyp> Thorn, my impression is all
2019-11-07T14:26:19 < zyp> but I'm not an expert
2019-11-07T14:26:44 < Thorn> ok thanks
2019-11-07T14:32:52 < Laurenceb> supp
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2019-11-07T14:35:36 < karlp> top nice products: https://www.banggood.com/6th-Generation-Quantum-Weak-Magnetic-Resonance-Analyzer-Body-Sub-Health-Tester-p-1374912.html
2019-11-07T14:35:40 < Laurenceb> oh wow
2019-11-07T14:36:09 < Laurenceb> Russian grrrl just went full retard
2019-11-07T14:36:21 < Laurenceb> >tried to fit air suspension to babby
2019-11-07T14:36:33 < Laurenceb> >forgot air springs need an air hose
2019-11-07T14:36:42 < Laurenceb> >"it worked in CAD"
2019-11-07T14:39:20 < Cracki> to babby itself?
2019-11-07T14:40:33 < Cracki> blow these things up like inflatable armbands, then put a cork in them
2019-11-07T14:42:40 < Laurenceb> nah lol
2019-11-07T14:42:44 < Laurenceb> to incubator
2019-11-07T14:43:10 < Laurenceb> lol the springs bolt flush to the incubator and there is no room for the hose
2019-11-07T14:44:48 < Cracki> hah
2019-11-07T14:44:52 -!- Streaker [~Streaker@unaffiliated/streaker] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
2019-11-07T14:45:07 < Cracki> just drill through the incubator
2019-11-07T14:45:19 < Cracki> use babby ventilator to inflate springs
2019-11-07T14:46:45 < Cracki> can anyone please rent a truck over 12'4" and drive under https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Norfolk_Southern%E2%80%93Gregson_Street_Overpass
2019-11-07T14:48:14 < Cracki> according to the yt channel that chronicles these accidents, a good number of those would still have hit the new height
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2019-11-07T15:04:09 < Laurenceb> kek https://soundcloud.com/user-546964481
2019-11-07T15:04:18 < Laurenceb> >Richard Spencer reacts
2019-11-07T15:04:21 < Laurenceb> I like this meme
2019-11-07T15:22:26 < Thorn> musics https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7CFgHNNSW-g
2019-11-07T15:25:45 < karlp> heh, the ad that rolled before that had my brother in it.
2019-11-07T15:26:16 < karlp> was wondering what you'd linked before I saw it was an add
2019-11-07T15:26:43 < Laurenceb> your brother is famous?
2019-11-07T15:27:40 < karlp> nah, just does some ads and shit.
2019-11-07T15:27:54 < Laurenceb> ah
2019-11-07T15:27:55 < karlp> well, famous is relative of course.
2019-11-07T15:28:08 < karlp> he's famous in eveyr bar in town, but that's not what you meant :)
2019-11-07T15:29:55 < karlp> http://theinspirationroom.com/daily/2016/samsung-saves-worst-instagram-account/ for instance...
2019-11-07T15:33:09 < jpa-> karlp: do you look the same as your brother?
2019-11-07T15:33:57 < englishman> innovation beard
2019-11-07T15:37:59 < karlp> not so much.
2019-11-07T15:38:07 < karlp> you cna find pictures of me, you know my name
2019-11-07T15:39:03 < Thorn> more musics https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yUDqAZM98GU
2019-11-07T15:39:12 < karlp> danit, I'm still catching up on last nights
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2019-11-07T15:40:54 < Thorn> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FCVPgeh47PQ
2019-11-07T15:43:24 < Cracki> those aren't big cats playing those instruments
2019-11-07T15:43:42 < Laurenceb> https://www.instagram.com/p/BS30fyTAvpw/
2019-11-07T15:43:44 < Laurenceb> soyface
2019-11-07T15:44:03 < Cracki> kek
2019-11-07T15:52:26 < karlp> srk: that teknoid - rossignol was great thanks
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2019-11-07T16:40:33 < englishman> wearing hot pink shirt to work and showing up 3 hours late
2019-11-07T16:40:38 < englishman> big power move
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2019-11-07T16:51:11 < kakinull> Laurenceb: looks like me
2019-11-07T16:51:23 < kakinull> 10years from now
2019-11-07T16:52:09 < kakinull> so you are checking out guys in instagram Laurenceb?
2019-11-07T16:53:14 < kakinull> oh samsung S7
2019-11-07T16:53:18 < kakinull> the bestest phone
2019-11-07T16:53:20 < kakinull> there is
2019-11-07T16:54:39 < kakinull> zyp: what is that ball size? like 1mm?
2019-11-07T16:55:23 < zyp> no, pitch is 1mm
2019-11-07T16:55:30 < kakinull> indeed
2019-11-07T16:57:30 < kakinull> https://drive.google.com/file/d/1JNRXzltpy2txmEB7SzooYOCKJEkAbJqr/view?usp=sharing urgings to ride but a lot of snow
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2019-11-07T17:04:23 < Steffanx> Doesnt the snow make it MORE fun, kakinull  ?
2019-11-07T17:04:35 < kakinull> indeed
2019-11-07T17:04:53 < kakinull> but leathal too
2019-11-07T17:05:08 < Steffanx> So what are you waiting for?
2019-11-07T17:05:24 < kakinull> :o
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2019-11-07T17:05:42 < kakinull> you have a point there
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2019-11-07T17:06:30 < Steffanx> Hah
2019-11-07T17:06:30 < kakinull> it makes all logical sense to ride now
2019-11-07T17:07:18 < Steffanx> Goodbye kakinull  o/
2019-11-07T17:07:30 < kakinull> thanks steff
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2019-11-07T17:18:56 < aandrew> interesting: https://sci-hub.se/10.1126/scirobotics.aaw9710. all code is also available: https://github.com/tudelft/SGBA_code_SR_2019
2019-11-07T17:21:52 < kakinull> zano 2.0
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2019-11-07T17:35:43 < bitmask> :(
2019-11-07T17:36:14 < bitmask> I chose an IC but didn't realize how small it was, I dont think I can solder it successfully, even with a stencil and paste
2019-11-07T17:36:55 < Thorn> wlcsp with 0.4mm balls?
2019-11-07T17:37:35 < bitmask> wson-10 2x2mm
2019-11-07T17:39:13 < Thorn> so what is wrong with soldering it using stencil & paste
2019-11-07T17:39:32 < jpa-> if it has the pads visible at the edges like it appears it does, it's not that difficult to do
2019-11-07T17:39:44 < bitmask> well ive never used stencil+paste before, I just dont know if I can do it
2019-11-07T17:39:58 < bitmask> yea? alright I guess I'll give it a shot
2019-11-07T17:40:44 < jpa-> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7mJ6vfdPjXE  remember to make video of your shaky hands
2019-11-07T17:40:45 < bitmask> maybe I should order one of those cheap usb microscopes 
2019-11-07T17:40:47 < karlp> libevent is _only_ used in sntp?!
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2019-11-07T17:49:51 < bitmask> https://youtu.be/edERx4x5eY0
2019-11-07T17:52:08 < kakipr0> bitmask: :O
2019-11-07T17:52:13 < bitmask> heh
2019-11-07T17:52:44 < kakipr0> yeah I have my doubts using 2x2 8pin+ep qfn
2019-11-07T17:53:03 < kakipr0> I know I can do it just and just
2019-11-07T17:54:00 < bitmask> think I should look for something else? you are the master of creating doubt :P
2019-11-07T17:54:56 < kakipr0> yes
2019-11-07T17:54:58 < kakipr0> you should
2019-11-07T17:55:41 -!- catphish [~charlie@unaffiliated/catphish] has quit [Quit: Leaving]
2019-11-07T17:56:06 < kakipr0> when did you notice you have selected some tiny shit?
2019-11-07T17:56:14 < kakipr0> *had selected
2019-11-07T17:56:30 < kakipr0> is it a regulator?
2019-11-07T17:56:35 < Steffanx> Damn you are shakey mr jpa-  
2019-11-07T17:56:50 < Steffanx> Camera stress or what?
2019-11-07T17:57:34 < Steffanx> Your camera cant even keep up with it. Lol
2019-11-07T17:57:57 < kakipr0> do not one hand small components
2019-11-07T17:58:28 < kakipr0> one hand is used for placement
2019-11-07T17:58:43 < kakipr0> another one is used to damppen shaking of that placement hand
2019-11-07T17:59:38 < bitmask> any suggestions for a usb all in one protector ic? I really liked the TI TPD4S014
2019-11-07T17:59:50 < kakipr0> a sec
2019-11-07T18:00:09 < bitmask> ESD + over voltage
2019-11-07T18:00:50 < kakipr0> I literally have a bag next to my desk I see what did I order
2019-11-07T18:00:57 < karlp> jpa-:how do you like that microscope?
2019-11-07T18:01:15 < karlp> is the big gold bezel for focus or what?
2019-11-07T18:01:32 < karlp> does it appear as a usb webcam class device or what?
2019-11-07T18:02:06 < karlp> also heh, is that usb powered, and then usb device for data on a second cable? cute :)
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2019-11-07T18:03:00 < kakipr0> https://www.digikey.com/product-detail/en/littelfuse-inc/SP0503BAHTG/F2715CT-ND/1154322 I have these but I didn't really think about it when I ordered them
2019-11-07T18:03:21 < kakipr0> I ordered most likelly "just something"
2019-11-07T18:03:22 < qyx> bitmask: qfn/wson with 0.5 pitch is easy by hand
2019-11-07T18:03:27 < kakipr0> expensive as hell
2019-11-07T18:03:31 < qyx> with 0.4 you have to be pedantic
2019-11-07T18:04:31 < bitmask> you think I should get separate ICs for each function to make it easier?
2019-11-07T18:04:49 < kakipr0> usb esd+
2019-11-07T18:04:50 < kakipr0> ?
2019-11-07T18:05:26 < bitmask> over voltage I guess
2019-11-07T18:05:35 < kakipr0> no
2019-11-07T18:05:38 < kakipr0> single chip
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2019-11-07T18:05:50 < kakipr0> I mean there is like hundreds of them chips or something
2019-11-07T18:05:59 < kakipr0> you can get them in sot23-x too
2019-11-07T18:06:05 < kakipr0> like that one I show you
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2019-11-07T18:06:07 < bitmask> can you help me choose? :P
2019-11-07T18:06:16 < kakipr0> just look what others have used
2019-11-07T18:06:23 < bitmask> oh, would a regular tvs cover standard over voltage protection too?
2019-11-07T18:06:46 < kakipr0> ye those chips have at least one tvs in them usually
2019-11-07T18:07:04 < bitmask> I guess I would want 3
2019-11-07T18:07:13 < kakipr0> no you would not
2019-11-07T18:07:16 < bitmask> why?
2019-11-07T18:07:23 < bitmask> vbus + D-/D+
2019-11-07T18:07:32 < kakipr0> because nobody does that
2019-11-07T18:07:38 < bitmask> oh, I was just going by that ic
2019-11-07T18:07:53 < bitmask> why wouldnt you need to protect those?
2019-11-07T18:07:55 < kakipr0> just pick a chip with bigger package
2019-11-07T18:08:29 < kakipr0> google search usb esd protection and you get suggestions
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2019-11-07T18:09:30 < kakipr0> https://www.arrow.com/en/products/usblc6-2sc6/stmicroelectronics
2019-11-07T18:09:34 < kakipr0> first from images
2019-11-07T18:09:38 < kakipr0> sot23-6 perfect
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2019-11-07T18:10:54 < bitmask> not found
2019-11-07T18:11:00 < bitmask> oh i can search 
2019-11-07T18:11:08 < kakipr0> USBLC6-2SC6
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2019-11-07T18:11:40 < kakipr0> selecting your own TVS diodes can be not so easy you might think
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2019-11-07T18:12:55 < bitmask> thanks
2019-11-07T18:13:00 < bitmask> looks good
2019-11-07T18:13:30 < kakipr0> if you go for "5V tvs diode" you don't know what you are looking for
2019-11-07T18:14:08 < kakipr0> it's more detailed process than that to select tvs diode
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2019-11-07T18:16:36 < bitmask> clamping is 12V though that doesnt seem very helpful for over voltage
2019-11-07T18:18:41 < kakinull> it's not how TVS works
2019-11-07T18:19:20 < kakinull> that TVS diode has 0 current at 5V and at 5.5V it has current of 100amperes
2019-11-07T18:20:08 < kakinull> yeah maybe that particular ESD protector had pretty high clamping voltage
2019-11-07T18:20:17 < kakinull> that is why I don't have it
2019-11-07T18:20:34 < bitmask> so why did you recommend it hah
2019-11-07T18:20:42 < kakinull> but it does it job with transients
2019-11-07T18:21:34 < kakinull> you don't get the overvoltage protection you are looking for with ESD protection solution like these
2019-11-07T18:22:25 < kakinull> you are using AVR right?
2019-11-07T18:23:34 < bitmask> TPD2S703-Q1
2019-11-07T18:23:52 < bitmask> yea why?
2019-11-07T18:24:45 < kakinull> looks good and expensive
2019-11-07T18:24:47 < kakinull> that chip
2019-11-07T18:25:34 < kakinull> AVR can take hell
2019-11-07T18:25:36 < bitmask> yea, a bit expensive, but for a one off might be fine
2019-11-07T18:25:56 < bitmask> this is for charging my phone, I dont want to risk damaging something expensive
2019-11-07T18:25:57 < kakinull> why are you this paranoid about this?
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2019-11-07T18:26:05 < kakinull> oh
2019-11-07T18:26:16 < kakinull> I thought it was for charging your board
2019-11-07T18:26:20 < bitmask> no
2019-11-07T18:26:28 < kakinull> what phone you have?
2019-11-07T18:27:23 < bitmask> nothing good, just an old galaxy s6. but for $2 i wouldn't mind protecting it, and im sure I wont have this phone much longer
2019-11-07T18:31:16 < kakinull> is that chip for usb output?
2019-11-07T18:31:27 < kakinull> actually it doesn't matter
2019-11-07T18:33:03 < kakinull> my s7 can take at least 9volts
2019-11-07T18:33:23 < kakinull> new phones are 20volt tolerant
2019-11-07T18:33:25 < kakinull> or something
2019-11-07T18:34:22 < bitmask> didn't realize that
2019-11-07T18:35:26 < kakinull> s7 charges at 9volt2amps
2019-11-07T18:36:06 < kakinull> but
2019-11-07T18:36:33 < kakinull> that chip might be interesting thing to add though
2019-11-07T18:37:39 < kakinull> you can have moisture to accumulate to your board in your pocket and mess with regulation
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2019-11-07T18:38:07 < bitmask> I dont think that chip is right now
2019-11-07T18:38:12 < bitmask> I think that only protects the D-/D+
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2019-11-07T18:39:19 < kakinull> S6 has fast charging too
2019-11-07T18:39:29 < kakinull> same charger than in my S7
2019-11-07T18:39:37 < kakinull> 9V2A
2019-11-07T18:40:20 < bitmask> fast charging always raises the voltage?
2019-11-07T18:40:26 < kakinull> you cannot use 9volt output thought it needs qualcomm QC negotiation before changing to 9volts
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2019-11-07T18:41:28 < kakinull> at least when your s6 says fast charging it's 9volts then
2019-11-07T18:41:43 < bitmask> hmm
2019-11-07T18:42:09 < bitmask> why do they gotta make it so complicated
2019-11-07T18:42:32 < kakinull> but maybe 10years ago 5V2A was the "fast charging" idk. it's irrelevant now
2019-11-07T18:42:48 < kakinull> and now with usb-c there is 4amps and 20volts
2019-11-07T18:44:12 < kakinull> your usb charger emulator should have ESD protection for data pins
2019-11-07T18:44:34 < kakinull> and you just need TVS to VBUS
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2019-11-07T18:51:21 < jpa-> karlp: not sure if it appears as USB device at all, it has hdmi out and usb for power; that video i recorded on SD card while watching on the small screen
2019-11-07T18:51:40 < jpa-> Steffanx: more like babbys first bga stress
2019-11-07T18:52:17 < jpa-> karlp: yeah, the gold ring rotates for focus
2019-11-07T18:53:05 < jpa-> karlp: it's an ok microscope and image quality on external HDMI display is great, but it's kind of shame that the built-in display has 320x240 px resolution only - one would think there would be some higher resolution mobile phone displays available
2019-11-07T18:53:27 < karlp> jpa-: the pics imply it has a usb-mini-b port ont he screen s well? is that the power one? I thought from the pics it was powered by a usb cable to the base?
2019-11-07T18:54:04 < kakinull> bitmask: SOD123 5V working voltage, stocked, normally stocked, active, in price order https://www.mouser.com/Semiconductors/Discrete-Semiconductors/Diodes-Rectifiers/TVS-Diodes-ESD-Suppressors/_/N-azkndZ1yzvvqxZscv7Zgjdhub?P=1yh8o3mZ1yzv44w&Keyword=SOD-123&FS=True&Ns=Pricing|0
2019-11-07T18:54:23 < jpa-> karlp: yeah, it came with two cables, the base one only powers the leds
2019-11-07T18:54:46 < jpa-> i've modded mine so that there is usb connector in the base so that i can connect the screen to that
2019-11-07T18:55:04 < kakinull> bitmask: you also need to check datasheet as sometimes wrong parameters are filled in to seller system
2019-11-07T18:55:08 < jpa-> (the screen/microscope part can be taken out and used with any kind of base)
2019-11-07T18:55:13 < bitmask> yea
2019-11-07T18:55:46 < karlp> jpa-: thanks!
2019-11-07T18:56:27 < kakinull> bitmask: if you want to go totally paranoid https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Crowbar_(circuit)
2019-11-07T18:56:44 < kakinull> clamp it down until it ceases
2019-11-07T18:57:17 < kakinull> and yeah don't use polyfuses to your phone charging output those are shit
2019-11-07T18:58:15 < kakinull> it's when you have small current sink and high current source when polyfuses make sense
2019-11-07T18:58:27 < kakinull> you have high current sink and high current source
2019-11-07T19:00:11 < kakinull> X ohm resistor(polyfuse) does nothing good
2019-11-07T19:00:51 < karlp> who the fuck thought 16bit registers was a good idea....
2019-11-07T19:00:52 < kakinull> I used crowbar circuit to DC/DC converter for DSLR camera
2019-11-07T19:02:29 < kakinull> in 16bit system?
2019-11-07T19:06:53 < kakinull> are you playing with msp430?
2019-11-07T19:07:44 < jpa-> best registers are those that do different things depending on 8/16/32bit write
2019-11-07T19:08:51 < karlp> nah, just this stoopid power meter ic again.  I only get a 16bit register for current, so that limits my range.
2019-11-07T19:09:13 < kakinull> bitmask: https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B2GcdpJiNGfKeHU2dzc2dE9oeVE/view?usp=sharing crowbar inside dslr dummy battery module. it will take the fuse out if voltage goes too high
2019-11-07T19:10:28 < karlp> device is perfectly capable of resolving milliamps, but will cap out at 63amps that way.
2019-11-07T19:10:33 < karlp> lamo to the maxo.
2019-11-07T19:11:08 < Laurenceb> some polyfuses are quite useful
2019-11-07T19:11:22 < Laurenceb> high quality ones for well designed applications
2019-11-07T19:11:53 < englishman> Laurenceb, when the tesla pickup truck is announced on Nov 21 it will be towing a falcon rocket
2019-11-07T19:11:58 < englishman> how cool is that
2019-11-07T19:12:04 < Laurenceb> kek
2019-11-07T19:12:12 < Laurenceb> Musk is an attention whore
2019-11-07T19:12:55 < englishman> if you did cool shit you'd be too
2019-11-07T19:13:38 < Laurenceb> true
2019-11-07T19:13:47 < Laurenceb> I think I solved stratosolar
2019-11-07T19:13:57 < Laurenceb> longitudinal waves in the tethers
2019-11-07T19:14:04 < Laurenceb> dont tell Edmund Kelly...
2019-11-07T19:14:27 < karlp> do you want it solved or not?
2019-11-07T19:14:46 < Laurenceb> I think that guy just wants to patent everything
2019-11-07T19:15:04 < Laurenceb> the fact he doesnt even discuss tether icing on the site is a big red flag
2019-11-07T19:16:06 < Laurenceb> https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/science-environment-50305423 ancient GERMan ape-race confirmed
2019-11-07T19:16:48 < Laurenceb> >missing link confirmed
2019-11-07T19:17:07 < kakipr0> I read: rape-ace
2019-11-07T19:17:20 < Laurenceb> >a knuckle-walking ancestor
2019-11-07T19:17:21 < Laurenceb> kek
2019-11-07T19:27:50 < qyx> meh I ordered F303 instead of F373
2019-11-07T19:28:43 < Steffanx> Why
2019-11-07T19:29:07 < Steffanx> Will you try to sell them to ##stm32 too now?
2019-11-07T19:29:40 < qyx> no, 2 pcs only for a prototype
2019-11-07T19:29:53 < qyx> now I have to wait again for the right ones
2019-11-07T19:30:17 < qyx> I must have been drunk or what
2019-11-07T19:30:45 < Laurenceb> https://pbs.twimg.com/media/EIts1VBUYAACsED.jpg
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2019-11-07T19:56:48 < Laurenceb> russian grrrl is backing the bolts with lots and lots of washers....
2019-11-07T19:57:20 < kakipr0> ?
2019-11-07T19:57:23 < kakipr0> how lots?
2019-11-07T19:58:04 < Steffanx> Pics or it did not happen 
2019-11-07T19:58:47 < Laurenceb> like 4cm high
2019-11-07T19:58:50 < Laurenceb> for the air hose
2019-11-07T19:59:06 < kakipr0> what is she doing?
2019-11-07T19:59:22 < Laurenceb> trying to fix air springs to babby incubator
2019-11-07T19:59:38 < Laurenceb> forgot that they need air hoses to them in the fancy cad design...
2019-11-07T20:01:07 < kakipr0> incubator
2019-11-07T20:01:20 < kakipr0> babby bubble
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2019-11-07T20:23:49 < Laurenceb> https://pbs.twimg.com/media/EIVzfeeWwAUVe4i.jpg
2019-11-07T20:26:10 < kakipr0> how is innovation lurencer?
2019-11-07T20:27:38 < kakipr0> any nextjob innovation?
2019-11-07T20:30:15 < qyx> Laurenceb: it was a common practice at work
2019-11-07T20:30:32 < Laurenceb> I leave in 2 weeks
2019-11-07T20:30:39 < Laurenceb> no next jerb atm
2019-11-07T20:31:03 < qyx> when they assembled the thing, there was no space left for cables and air hoses
2019-11-07T20:31:50 < kakipr0> how well off you are lurencebox?
2019-11-07T20:32:17 < kakipr0> do you plan to start growing lolitas?
2019-11-07T20:34:27 < kakipr0> do you go to dole?
2019-11-07T20:43:50 < Laurenceb> prob dole lol
2019-11-07T20:43:50 < Steffanx> How is kakipr0 ? Doing off work?
2019-11-07T20:43:55 < Laurenceb> or investmentz
2019-11-07T20:44:14 < Steffanx> How you even survive that, moneywise, kakipr0 ?
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2019-11-07T20:54:35 < Laurenceb> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B5JbrRjYItw
2019-11-07T21:00:20 < kakinull> I have some income
2019-11-07T21:00:50 < kakinull> and very little living costs in kakibunker
2019-11-07T21:03:15 < kakipr0> what is the "partID" for these? https://www.ebay.com/itm/5x-Micro-Waterproof-Copper-Tactile-Tact-Touch-Push-Button-Switch-SMD-4x4x3mm-VB/193194527731
2019-11-07T21:04:46 < kakipr0> waterproof... wtf
2019-11-07T21:04:49 < kakipr0> anyway
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2019-11-07T21:11:43 < kakipr0> okay lets call it SKQG
2019-11-07T21:13:51 < kakipr0> what is your favourite type of RTC battery cell? 3002?
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2019-11-07T21:24:59 < qyx> hi analog pros
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2019-11-07T21:25:44 < qyx> what would I lose if I convert a single ended coax input to a diff one fed to an ADC?
2019-11-07T21:25:45 < kakipr0> exclude me
2019-11-07T21:26:40 < qyx> if I just connect shield to AIN- and the center conductor to AIN+, I will lose half of the dynamic range, will I?
2019-11-07T21:27:31 < qyx> but if I do it properly with some instrumentation amp
2019-11-07T21:27:55 < qyx> is there any difference? signals are DC to ~10kHz
2019-11-07T21:28:18 < jpa-> will the ground remain close enough to not exceed common mode range?
2019-11-07T21:28:44 < qyx> yes, the ADC has -1V to +1V CM range for both + and -
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2019-11-07T21:28:56 < qyx> lets say, MCP3903
2019-11-07T21:30:03 < BrainDamage> more than dynamic range what will suffer will be immunity to external interference
2019-11-07T21:30:17 < qyx> coax << tp?
2019-11-07T21:30:39 < qyx> it is a hypothetical questiob, considering only practical point of view
2019-11-07T21:30:51 < jpa-> if the systems really fully float, there is little benefit to use it differentially; if they have multiple ground connections, there is some benefit
2019-11-07T21:30:53 < qyx> ie. proper shiuelded single pair connectors
2019-11-07T21:31:14 < BrainDamage> interference is not just injected from the cable, but from the supply too
2019-11-07T21:31:26 < qyx> ok, it would be isolated
2019-11-07T21:31:41 < BrainDamage> in that case, little difference
2019-11-07T21:32:05 < qyx> and should I convert single ended to diff using an INA?
2019-11-07T21:32:15 < qyx> is there anything to gain besides 6dB?
2019-11-07T21:32:22 < jpa-> only if you need the high input impedance of INA
2019-11-07T21:32:25 < BrainDamage> a simple differential amplifier suffice
2019-11-07T21:32:34 < jpa-> with MCP3903, can't you just step up the PGA gain anyway?
2019-11-07T21:32:44 < qyx> or the other way aroud, may I fuck anything if I do the amp improperly?
2019-11-07T21:33:04 < qyx> if yes, in that case I'll just connect it and set gain to *2
2019-11-07T21:33:05 < jpa-> yeah, you can increase noise level
2019-11-07T21:33:37 < qyx> \o/
2019-11-07T21:33:58 < qyx> one more thing, may the cap coupling in the isolated psu change things?
2019-11-07T21:34:20 < qyx> should I pay attention while selecting it?
2019-11-07T21:34:23 < jpa-> yes, it can cause your ground potential difference to exceed the common mode range
2019-11-07T21:36:29 < qyx> how so if the coax shield is connected to AVDD?
2019-11-07T21:36:49 < qyx> to AVDD and AIN-
2019-11-07T21:36:51 < qyx> aaaaaaa
2019-11-07T21:36:54 < qyx> AGND I mean
2019-11-07T21:37:09 < jpa-> ah, so you mean to connect it to ground anyway
2019-11-07T21:37:22 < qyx> yes, more like pseudo-differential
2019-11-07T21:37:35 < qyx> otherwise the coax would float wildly
2019-11-07T21:37:59 < jpa-> if the ADC can be configured to single-ended, that will usually just connect AIN- to AGND internally anyway
2019-11-07T21:38:02 < jpa-> so same difference
2019-11-07T21:38:23 < qyx> ok, thank you very much
2019-11-07T21:39:12 < jpa-> connecting it to the connection point ground will eliminate whatever voltage drop occurs in your pcb, but unless you are intentionally passing current through the shielding, that shouldn't matter
2019-11-07T21:40:00 < Laurenceb> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AhDtmKAxvs0
2019-11-07T21:40:30 < qyx> yeah
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2019-11-07T21:43:06 < kakipr0> how many millimeter coin you want for RTC?
2019-11-07T21:43:17 < kakipr0> I belive you have calculated all the shiet before
2019-11-07T21:43:41 < jpa-> biggest you can fit, of course
2019-11-07T21:43:57 < BrainDamage> just use a cr2032 like everyone, you get benefit that you can source it dirty cheap
2019-11-07T21:44:06 < BrainDamage> and so can the client if it needs to replace
2019-11-07T21:44:14 < kakipr0> have you calculated that operating time?
2019-11-07T21:44:28 < BrainDamage> it's normally several years
2019-11-07T21:44:46 < kakipr0> is the battery consumed while VDD is present?
2019-11-07T21:44:46 < jpa-> go with CR123A or ER14250 if you can fit it, otherwise use CR2032 because it is common
2019-11-07T21:46:10 < Steffanx> How long do you expect to be without power kakipr0?
2019-11-07T21:46:20 < kakipr0> not much all
2019-11-07T21:46:35 < kakipr0> VDD should be present pretty much always
2019-11-07T21:46:38 < Steffanx> so a supercapish solution would work too? (but that wont be cheaper i guess)
2019-11-07T21:46:58 < kakipr0> cheaper is cheaper
2019-11-07T21:47:21 < jpa-> supercap may be easier safety-wise
2019-11-07T21:47:22 < Steffanx> A battery holder isnt free either though
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2019-11-07T21:52:06 < kakipr0> https://cpcireland.farnell.com/pro-power/pp002092/battery-holder-cr2032-vertical/dp/BT06543
2019-11-07T21:52:17 < kakipr0> only source to buy: farnell
2019-11-07T21:52:27 < kakipr0> nice vertical
2019-11-07T21:53:04 < kakipr0> https://www.amazon.com/2032-Vertical-Battery-Holder-CR2032/dp/B0771WZRWN NWM
2019-11-07T21:54:00 < kakipr0> https://www.aliexpress.com/item/32960482120.html ali ali
2019-11-07T21:58:42 < kakipr0> sauna bbl>
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2019-11-07T22:17:54 < karlp> heh, problem last night was befcause I called my c++ file .cxx, and the espshits didn't know what that was so ignored it.
2019-11-07T22:18:07 < karlp> renamed it .cc and now I get actual compile problems properly, yay
2019-11-07T22:18:16 < aandrew> karlp: wow that's a fantastic failure
2019-11-07T22:18:25 < karlp> pretty nice :)
2019-11-07T22:18:36 < karlp> COMPONENT_SRCS is a (space-separated) list of source files (*.c, *.cpp, *.cc, *.S). These source files will be compiled into the component library.
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2019-11-07T22:29:24 < karlp> sweet. resolved the "not things that people feel like mentioning in their howtos" and it all works.
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2019-11-07T22:29:42 < karlp> task blinkerizing ws2812leds, and task reading ultrasonic distance.
2019-11-07T22:32:59 < Steffanx> whoa, such good makering.
2019-11-07T22:33:05 < karlp> you bet.
2019-11-07T22:33:26 < karlp> nodemcu module, ultrasonic module, leds on flywires, plugged into an honest to god breadboard
2019-11-07T22:33:28 < karlp> makertastic
2019-11-07T22:33:36 < Steffanx> whats the plan?
2019-11-07T22:34:00 < karlp> little magic wand type toy, point at things get "nice" hazy led pattern disntance
2019-11-07T22:34:43 < karlp> that's idea at least...
2019-11-07T22:43:59 < aandrew> honest to god breadboards are kind of rare
2019-11-07T22:45:04 < buZz> karlp: yay esp8266 ftw
2019-11-07T22:45:37 < buZz> i got one of those ultrasonic sensors in my 'future RC vehicle' box 
2019-11-07T22:45:55 < buZz> wanna build something that can autonomously drive and map areas in 3D using ros.org and a RGBD camera
2019-11-07T22:46:10 < buZz> the ultrasonic would just be for preventing crashes
2019-11-07T22:48:53 < Steffanx> You will get banned if you say you will write some academic paper about it where your toy can be used to map areas after a disaster et all.
2019-11-07T22:48:57 < Steffanx> because.. fuck that.
2019-11-07T22:49:24 < Steffanx> :P
2019-11-07T22:49:59 < buZz> ?
2019-11-07T22:50:04 < buZz> why would i write a paper
2019-11-07T22:50:14 < Steffanx> idk. 
2019-11-07T22:50:29 < buZz> like the majority of people, i am not limited by being a academic
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2019-11-07T22:51:21 < Steffanx> Good good. Because all they can do is map areas or make fancy robots that are very useful helping out after a disaster.
2019-11-07T22:51:35 < buZz> dont write about it, just do it
2019-11-07T22:59:35 < kakipr0> favourite microusb connectors?
2019-11-07T22:59:40 < kakipr0> sockets
2019-11-07T22:59:54 < kakipr0> sorry.. receptables
2019-11-07T23:00:13 < kakipr0> receptacles
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2019-11-07T23:00:30 < kakipr0> I preffer vertical
2019-11-07T23:02:06 < kakipr0> it's cheaper to just mount vertical board and have horizontal receptacle there
2019-11-07T23:06:11 < kakipr0> https://www.mouser.com/ProductDetail/Kycon/KMMVX-SMT-BS-BTR?qs=sGAEpiMZZMulM8LPOQ%252Byky12XIIaLVKBWKttmpDJTQd7iMGCp9KdTA%3D%3D
2019-11-07T23:06:49 < kakipr0> is it time to start using usb-c anyway?
2019-11-07T23:07:15 < Steffanx> some will say yes, im not convinced.
2019-11-07T23:07:49 < Steffanx> the amount of usb-c cables in my house is ... very low
2019-11-07T23:08:00 < kakipr0> same
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2019-11-07T23:44:15 < kakipr0> sub-euro 16x2
2019-11-07T23:44:19 < kakipr0> damn
2019-11-07T23:44:35 < kakipr0> https://www.ebay.com/itm/1602LCD-16x2-Character-LCD-Display-Module-HD44780-Controller-LCM-blue-blacklight/174086131046
2019-11-07T23:44:40 < kakipr0> nobrainer
2019-11-07T23:45:45 < oz4ga> apropos usb-c: Does either of you know if those cheapo stm32F401/F411 "black pill" bords on aliexpress comes w. usb-c or micro?
2019-11-07T23:46:51 < buZz> probably micro
2019-11-07T23:47:47 < kakipr0> cheapo + usb-c.. does not compute
2019-11-07T23:48:34 < oz4ga> makes sense
2019-11-07T23:49:58 < oz4ga> number of usb-c cables here approach zero ;)
2019-11-07T23:50:53 < buZz> it'll grow
2019-11-07T23:51:07 < buZz> i spent half a day hunting for a usb-mini cable at home the other day -_-
2019-11-07T23:52:32 < kakipr0> no but it's more expensive in every way than micro-usb
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--- Day changed Fri Nov 08 2019
2019-11-08T00:32:39 < kakipr0> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8qd3EqZ15Jg
2019-11-08T00:34:09 < kakipr0> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nxFad7Rxw7Q
2019-11-08T00:35:54 < kakipr0> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HugwQ4b9iBU this may be the coolest though
2019-11-08T00:57:13 < aandrew> heh people abusing the fuck outta the HD44780
2019-11-08T00:58:01 < aandrew> guessing using the custom glyphs as a bitmap
2019-11-08T00:58:12 < kakipr0> you see some have backlight flickering
2019-11-08T00:58:12 < aandrew> the strobe effect is lol
2019-11-08T00:58:57 < kakipr0> aandrew: is there any reason to use the full 8bit paraller io?
2019-11-08T00:59:11 < aandrew> kakipr0: you linked a good reason to do so :-)
2019-11-08T00:59:28 < aandrew> it's there mainly to make interfacing with ancient micros easy because they had intel/motorola buses
2019-11-08T00:59:57 < kakipr0> I will control the display and contrast etc. with BSRs
2019-11-08T01:00:04 < aandrew> BSR?
2019-11-08T01:00:06 < aandrew> big shift reg?
2019-11-08T01:00:09 < kakipr0> yes
2019-11-08T01:05:51 < kakipr0> is that E pin the clock?
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2019-11-08T01:15:04 < kakipr0> ywes
2019-11-08T01:24:42 < aandrew> hm?
2019-11-08T01:27:06 < kakipr0> so of these displays have "E" for clock
2019-11-08T01:31:21 < aandrew> I don't think that's a clock so much as an enable/latch
2019-11-08T01:31:27 < aandrew> they're asynchronous devices
2019-11-08T01:32:24 < kakipr0> latch
2019-11-08T01:32:25 < kakipr0> yes
2019-11-08T01:32:32 < kakipr0> risign edge?
2019-11-08T01:32:52 < kakipr0> you know why I do contrast with BSR?
2019-11-08T01:33:06 < aandrew> becuase it's handy and you can do it with an R2R?
2019-11-08T01:33:14 < kakipr0> it's cheaper than proper vertical potentiometer
2019-11-08T01:33:27 < aandrew> you gonna termally compensate it too or no
2019-11-08T01:33:41 < kakipr0> idk what that means
2019-11-08T01:33:51 < kakipr0> thermally?
2019-11-08T01:34:00 < aandrew> google "contrast thermal compensation hd44780" or someshit
2019-11-08T01:34:15 < kakipr0> interesting
2019-11-08T01:35:44 < kakipr0> does the backlight have intergrated series resistor?
2019-11-08T01:36:21 < aandrew> some do, some don't
2019-11-08T01:36:32 < aandrew> put down a spot for a resistor and 0R it if that's what's best
2019-11-08T01:36:47 < kakipr0> ye I have that
2019-11-08T01:37:00 < kakipr0> I have some excess outputs to BSR
2019-11-08T01:37:06 < aandrew> or lay down a cheap LM317 and adjust the current with a BSR too
2019-11-08T01:37:17 < kakipr0> LM317hmm
2019-11-08T01:37:19 < kakipr0> okay
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2019-11-08T01:37:35 < aandrew> google for "lm317 current regulate" 
2019-11-08T01:37:50 < aandrew> it's dirt cheap and I *think* it's good down to the mA you want to twiddle for a backlight
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2019-11-08T01:39:19 < kakipr0> to92 should do?
2019-11-08T01:39:29 < aandrew> yeah I expect it would
2019-11-08T01:39:34 < aandrew> this is off 5v or something
2019-11-08T01:39:40 < aandrew> what's Vf of the backlight
2019-11-08T01:39:58 < kakipr0> uncertain
2019-11-08T01:40:05 < kakipr0> 4v?
2019-11-08T01:40:14 < kakipr0> I see some of such figures
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2019-11-08T01:40:29 < aandrew> make sure the lm317 has enough headroom to do its thing then
2019-11-08T01:40:32 < aandrew> that seems high
2019-11-08T01:41:57 < kakipr0> https://www.ebay.com/itm/1602LCD-16x2-Character-LCD-Display-Module-HD44780-Controller-LCM-blue-blacklight/174086131046
2019-11-08T01:42:26 < kakipr0> I see 100ohm series resistor
2019-11-08T01:46:44 < kakipr0> with one led series it would mean something like 15mA with blue led
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2019-11-08T01:49:35 < kakipr0> aandrew: how about just sinking directly to BSR?
2019-11-08T01:51:31 < kakipr0> 6mA per pin doesn't quite cut it though
2019-11-08T01:52:53 < aandrew> might work, I'd want to experiment
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2019-11-08T02:07:50 < kakipr0> just throw some bourns ladder at it
2019-11-08T02:08:50 < kakipr0> actually
2019-11-08T02:08:59 < kakipr0> if I try to find one that fits
2019-11-08T02:09:10 < kakipr0> it's like 1euro
2019-11-08T02:09:12 < kakipr0> so
2019-11-08T02:09:27 < kakipr0> mess of 0402 should do
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2019-11-08T05:36:11 < jadew> morning
2019-11-08T05:37:25 < jadew> what are you watching?
2019-11-08T05:44:47 < jadew> I'm watching a movie where the actors are underwater and holding my breath lol
2019-11-08T05:45:01 < jadew> can't hold it for as long as I used to when I was a kid
2019-11-08T05:49:22 < jadew> just timed it, 1 minute 40 (could go longer), but I think I was doing close to 3 minutes underwater (if not more)
2019-11-08T05:50:46 < jadew> apparently the record is 24 minutes, but that guy inhaled pure oxygen
2019-11-08T05:51:08 < jadew> pretty cool tho
2019-11-08T05:51:45 < jadew> you take one breath and go on a half an hour diving adventure with no gear
2019-11-08T05:54:04 < jadew> (turns out it's also very dangerous to breath in pure oxygen)
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2019-11-08T06:14:57 < Thorn> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Aql6SIOIyXs
2019-11-08T06:15:38 < Thorn> ^ watching this
2019-11-08T06:15:58 < jadew> is that blender?
2019-11-08T06:16:08 < jadew> or a different tool?
2019-11-08T06:17:03 < jadew> seems different
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2019-11-08T06:57:32 < dongs> blender lol
2019-11-08T06:57:41 < dongs> they can't afford to have a fucking release party in a venue with 1000 of people
2019-11-08T06:57:48 < dongs> brokebitch opensores
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2019-11-08T07:05:22 < machinehum> you got em good
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2019-11-08T07:49:56 < machinehum> Why the fuck does st put two fucking dots on their parts
2019-11-08T07:50:08 < machinehum> had to do the hot air 180deg swithc
2019-11-08T07:50:11 < machinehum> fuck that shit
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2019-11-08T08:19:16 < rue_mohr> dots?
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2019-11-08T08:37:32 < R2COM> yo
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2019-11-08T09:34:15 < jadew> sup R2COM?
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2019-11-08T10:11:16 < R2COM> just lots of work
2019-11-08T10:11:18 < R2COM> dang
2019-11-08T10:11:24 < R2COM> its 1am now and im not in bed
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2019-11-08T11:43:29 < karlp> heh, just won a tracelyzer license.
2019-11-08T11:43:40 < karlp> and here's me been writing tooling for doing it by hand.
2019-11-08T11:45:52 < jpa-> won?
2019-11-08T11:46:54 < karlp> yeah. ednnews has this competitions sometimes
2019-11-08T11:47:04 < karlp> apparently they're not well participated in. this is the second time I've won something
2019-11-08T11:48:00 < karlp> https://www.eenewseurope.com/reader-offer/gain-deep-insight-your-rtos this one.
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2019-11-08T12:21:03 < Steffanx> They wanted you out of the business, so they gave you a license karlp?
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2019-11-08T13:00:38  * karlp laughs
2019-11-08T13:00:41 < karlp> doubt it.
2019-11-08T13:01:04 < karlp> I'd be surprised if my little shitty text scrolling crap is even something they would have noticed.
2019-11-08T13:01:22 < PaulFertser> Why does Google think that when I'm searching for "big tits" I want to see plenty of stupid porno websites and not information about those nice birds that I'm feeding?
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2019-11-08T13:12:53 < Cracki> try googling for cock
2019-11-08T13:13:22 < Cracki> or pussy, ass, boobies, ...
2019-11-08T13:19:23 < englishman> beep zyp
2019-11-08T13:20:38 < englishman> https://i.imgur.com/wrCdRQg.jpg
2019-11-08T13:27:48 < PaulFertser> Cracki: but I have no cocks flying outside my window.
2019-11-08T13:28:02 < Cracki> but maybe in the backyard
2019-11-08T13:28:19 < Cracki> and for all I know chickens can fly, if you leave their wing feathers alone
2019-11-08T13:28:35 < Cracki> they just suck at it
2019-11-08T13:28:39 < PaulFertser> :)
2019-11-08T13:28:55 < Cracki> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=idDtTGEbyGA
2019-11-08T13:30:02 < Steffanx> Is it winter already, englishman ...
2019-11-08T13:30:32 < englishman> no, not yet
2019-11-08T13:31:50  * PaulFertser just tried googling for cock. Zero porn sites, one rooster, many dictionaries.
2019-11-08T13:36:37 < englishman> https://i.imgur.com/6P7wJ1w.jpg
2019-11-08T13:36:43 < englishman> the kitty compartment
2019-11-08T13:37:01 < PaulFertser> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z6QgND6sXbc Rooster
2019-11-08T13:44:47 < dongs> https://youtu.be/J9qSSd5qVFM?t=910 lmao such pro
2019-11-08T13:48:00 < englishman> lol
2019-11-08T13:49:13 < englishman> double lol
2019-11-08T13:49:20 < dongs> my god the entire video is jsut a fucking fail
2019-11-08T13:49:25 < Cracki> those hands are shaky
2019-11-08T13:49:54 < Cracki> the opposite of electroboom
2019-11-08T13:50:37 < Cracki> and that thicc wire he uses... 
2019-11-08T13:51:05 < Cracki> uhh epoxying stuff before it's tested?
2019-11-08T13:55:43 < PaulFertser> dongs: any luck trying to participate in soldering competition?
2019-11-08T13:56:00 < dongs> PaulFertser: i left my biz card with those clowns and they said they'd contact me and that was the end of it. 
2019-11-08T13:56:23 < PaulFertser> Oh too bad :(
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2019-11-08T14:33:14 < Steffanx> Is it true when a jappy says that without a deadline he wont do it?
2019-11-08T14:33:15 < BrainDamage> you need to update your vocabulary to modern slang, try birb
2019-11-08T14:33:24 < Steffanx> "Will get back to you".
2019-11-08T14:35:05 < englishman> aka: never talk to me again
2019-11-08T14:43:43 < jadew> everyone needs something like that in their vocabulary
2019-11-08T14:44:04 < jadew> I have something for future actions that I don't want to do: "We'll see."
2019-11-08T14:44:07 < jadew> it means "no"
2019-11-08T14:44:22 < englishman> hmm AAPL returned 80% gains so far this year
2019-11-08T14:46:20 < jadew> mawk, how bad/slow is laposte.fr?
2019-11-08T14:47:23 < jadew> last week I sent a package to france and it's not even in their tracking system
2019-11-08T14:48:01 < sync> they are french
2019-11-08T14:48:03 < jadew> it would normally reach its destination by now, even if that destination was across the ocean
2019-11-08T14:48:09 < sync> so they probably promptly lost it
2019-11-08T14:48:15 < jadew> heh
2019-11-08T14:49:43 < jadew> I'm reading lots of bad reviews about them
2019-11-08T14:49:57 < jadew> https://www.trustpilot.com/review/www.laposte.fr
2019-11-08T14:55:19 < Laurenceb> https://www.liveleak.com/view?t=kYPN1_1573188293
2019-11-08T14:57:20 < jadew> I thought nobody is visiting liveleak anymore
2019-11-08T14:59:08 < Laurenceb> only shitlords
2019-11-08T14:59:16 < jadew> they disabled the comments section
2019-11-08T15:00:27 < PaulFertser> jadew: why do you need that instead of real "no"? Business reasons, customers relations?
2019-11-08T15:00:56 < jadew> PaulFertser, to get out of an uncomfortable discussion with the wife
2019-11-08T15:01:12 < jadew> for business convo, I rarely leave something hanging
2019-11-08T15:01:15 < englishman> only laurence
2019-11-08T15:01:49 < Laurenceb> jadew: I think you need to be logged in to get comments, but yeah its worthless without troll comments
2019-11-08T15:02:48 < PaulFertser> jadew: but you have long-term relationship with your wife, so she could have easily figured out by now that it really means "no", and in this case, how come that phrase is useful?
2019-11-08T15:03:04 < jadew> PaulFertser, she knows
2019-11-08T15:03:42 < jadew> well, I guess it's expressing just that, "I don't feel like talking about this, and I don't want to do it. Go away."
2019-11-08T15:04:04 < Cracki> "no" is an invitation to argue
2019-11-08T15:04:27 < PaulFertser> jadew: that's fair enough. And it's not really equivalent to "no" then.
2019-11-08T15:04:44 < Laurenceb> jadew is Sargon of Akkad?
2019-11-08T15:05:38 < Cracki> I don't even have to look who wrote that.
2019-11-08T15:06:39 < Laurenceb> holy shit lol
2019-11-08T15:06:40 < Laurenceb> https://www.google.com/maps/@51.5579253,-1.7956667,3a,75y,331.49h,91.82t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sgRZ9FlOEFZrOk3z8laonFQ!2e0!7i16384!8i8192
2019-11-08T15:06:52 < Laurenceb> Sargons house according to /cow/
2019-11-08T15:07:08 < Laurenceb> keek the roof
2019-11-08T15:07:33 < jadew> if something happens to him, the police will have a short list of people who clicked on that link
2019-11-08T15:07:40 < Laurenceb> oops
2019-11-08T15:08:04 < Laurenceb> wonder if he has buckets upstairs to catch the leaking rain
2019-11-08T15:09:23 < Cracki> what evidence is there to support this
2019-11-08T15:09:33 < Laurenceb>  "cow said its true"
2019-11-08T15:09:35 < Cracki> and who would give a fuck
2019-11-08T15:09:49 < Laurenceb> yeah /cow/ are pretty weird
2019-11-08T15:10:49 < Laurenceb> lol there is a giant hole in the side of the chimney
2019-11-08T15:17:04 < Laurenceb> woah stratosolar are listing a new employee, an ""engineer""
2019-11-08T15:17:11 < Laurenceb> I wonder if they will ever make anything
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2019-11-08T15:36:58 < zoobab> seems the wiki of stm32duino vanished:
2019-11-08T15:37:01 < zoobab> https://web.archive.org/web/20190220175310/http://wiki.stm32duino.com/index.php?title=Black_Pill
2019-11-08T15:37:19 < Laurenceb> black pilled
2019-11-08T15:37:31 < zoobab> :-)
2019-11-08T15:37:48 < zoobab> bluepilled is viagraed
2019-11-08T15:39:06 -!- catphish [~catphish@unaffiliated/catphish] has joined ##stm32
2019-11-08T15:39:23 -!- catphish [~catphish@unaffiliated/catphish] has quit [Client Quit]
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2019-11-08T15:50:31 < Cracki> the french-italian mafia seized the domain?
2019-11-08T15:50:34 < Cracki> (ST)
2019-11-08T15:52:01 < Cracki> maybe https://github.com/rogerclarkmelbourne/Arduino_STM32 lost some kind of fight over the domain
2019-11-08T15:52:36 < Cracki> "unable to continue hosting" https://github.com/rogerclarkmelbourne/Arduino_STM32/commit/a3a56866505eeca4b49fc435700dcd4bd5540c8c
2019-11-08T15:53:17 < karlp> isn't the modern internet wonderufl.
2019-11-08T15:53:32 < karlp> you are either inconsequential, or you are one of the few mega companies
2019-11-08T15:53:35 < karlp> there is nothing in the middle
2019-11-08T16:01:06 < Laurenceb> wtf crazy
2019-11-08T16:09:11 < jadew> sounds like begging for a handout
2019-11-08T16:09:23 < jadew> hosting is cheap as hell
2019-11-08T16:09:49 < jadew> and traffic is usually free
2019-11-08T16:09:56 < Mangy_Dog> rogers not begging
2019-11-08T16:10:16 < Mangy_Dog> hes done a huge amount of work and propelled STM32f103 chips into othe mainstream near equal to arduinoi
2019-11-08T16:10:28 < jadew> and now wants some money for it?
2019-11-08T16:10:48 < Mangy_Dog> well hes been paying for it off his own back for the past.... 5-10 years?
2019-11-08T16:10:55 < jadew> I had a website getting ~5 billion hits per month
2019-11-08T16:11:08 < Mangy_Dog> lucky you
2019-11-08T16:11:12 < jadew> it didn't cost me a fortune to host it for free
2019-11-08T16:12:09 < jadew> free as in free service, I think I paid like... $40/yr for hosting
2019-11-08T16:12:43 < jadew> so yeah, he's begging
2019-11-08T16:13:38 < karlp> 5 billion hits but how much transfer?
2019-11-08T16:13:50 < karlp> it's serious work to get it hosted in the right place to be cheapenough these days
2019-11-08T16:14:22 < jadew> karlp, not a lot of transfer in contrast to the number of hits, because most of those hits were API hits
2019-11-08T16:14:38 < jadew> but enough that it created problems when hosting it myself
2019-11-08T16:14:49 < karlp> anywya, 
2019-11-08T16:15:50 < aandrew> Mangy_Dog: he needs a corporate sponsor (STMicro comes to mind) not a cyber tin cup
2019-11-08T16:16:10 < Mangy_Dog> no he wants to leave the project
2019-11-08T16:16:19 < Mangy_Dog> stm32 opted to take over
2019-11-08T16:16:20 < aandrew> ah so that's something else entirely
2019-11-08T16:16:29 < Mangy_Dog> but like he stated privacy laws wouldnt let him
2019-11-08T16:16:37 < Mangy_Dog> stm32 were going to take over the forum
2019-11-08T16:16:41 < Mangy_Dog> manage and pay for it
2019-11-08T16:16:50 < aandrew> I can't wait until stmicro drops that fucking ridiculous forum software
2019-11-08T16:17:02 < aandrew> nordic had a great site until they merged it with their private shit and made devzone
2019-11-08T16:17:18 < jadew> Mangy_Dog, that also sounds like BS
2019-11-08T16:17:34 < jadew> you can partner with a company to manage a website
2019-11-08T16:17:40 < jadew> you don't give them anything, they work for you
2019-11-08T16:17:44 < jadew> for free
2019-11-08T16:17:46 < Mangy_Dog> maybe there are legal work arounds
2019-11-08T16:17:47 < jadew> problem solved
2019-11-08T16:17:50 < Mangy_Dog> but he mentioned gdpr
2019-11-08T16:17:51 < Mangy_Dog> and tbh
2019-11-08T16:17:58 < Mangy_Dog> i am aware you cant sell on data to a new company
2019-11-08T16:18:08 < Mangy_Dog> which is what would technically be happening
2019-11-08T16:18:19 < jadew> there are lots of ways around this
2019-11-08T16:18:33 < Mangy_Dog> hes but many would likely require lawyers
2019-11-08T16:18:36 < jadew> you can create a new company that gets the forum, merge with ST
2019-11-08T16:18:39 < Mangy_Dog> youre forgetting roger isnt a buisness
2019-11-08T16:18:40 < Mangy_Dog> :p
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2019-11-08T16:19:01 < Mangy_Dog> hes a person who put a lot of time into developing this core
2019-11-08T16:19:12 < Mangy_Dog> and ran a forum 
2019-11-08T16:19:14 < Mangy_Dog> for it
2019-11-08T16:19:31 < jadew> again, if he got paid, he would find a solution
2019-11-08T16:19:35 < jadew> I know I would
2019-11-08T16:19:41 < jadew> even if I wanted to leave the project
2019-11-08T16:19:48 < aandrew> why can't he sanitize the data to remove the private shit? seems straightforard
2019-11-08T16:19:57 < Mangy_Dog> if he got paid yeah maybe then he would have continued insentive to continue putting his free time into it
2019-11-08T16:20:03 < Mangy_Dog> so whats wrong with him getting paid?
2019-11-08T16:20:08 < jadew> what aandrew said too
2019-11-08T16:20:15 < jadew> Mangy_Dog, absolutely nothing
2019-11-08T16:20:16 < Mangy_Dog> hes developed the core as much as he wanted to
2019-11-08T16:20:19 < jadew> I'm all for getting paid
2019-11-08T16:20:22 < Mangy_Dog> hes done with the project
2019-11-08T16:20:32 < aandrew> I wonder why stmicro dosn't want it
2019-11-08T16:20:32 < Mangy_Dog> he wanted to leave and let some one else take over
2019-11-08T16:20:33 < aandrew> doesn't
2019-11-08T16:20:34 < jadew> just saying that the move is not because "meh", it's because "meh, or money"
2019-11-08T16:20:41 < Mangy_Dog> stmmicro does
2019-11-08T16:20:47 < Mangy_Dog> or at least publically said they did
2019-11-08T16:20:56 < Mangy_Dog> reps of them came to the forum
2019-11-08T16:21:03 < Mangy_Dog> there was a lot of talk of transisions
2019-11-08T16:21:16 < Mangy_Dog> but it just disapeared
2019-11-08T16:21:55 < karlp> depends what weird terms he may or may not have had on customer signup maybe.
2019-11-08T16:23:27 < Mangy_Dog> i guess it wouldnt have been a huge deal to archive the old forum for reference, and then create a new forum under stm mangment and get everyone to resign up
2019-11-08T16:23:31 < Mangy_Dog> to new legal terms
2019-11-08T16:23:56 < jadew> yep, and all he had to do was remove ip addresses
2019-11-08T16:23:56 < karlp> depending on the old terms, they wouldn'ðt have needed to, as long as the new owner was prepared to accept the infra as it was.
2019-11-08T16:24:03 < karlp> which they probably weren't
2019-11-08T16:24:23 < jadew> that sounds plausible
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2019-11-08T16:34:47 < aandrew> looks like https://stm32duinoforum.com/forum/index_php.html is the mirror
2019-11-08T16:35:08 < aandrew> why he doesn't just throw the db on torrent is beyond me
2019-11-08T16:36:33 < aandrew> forums always remind me of https://imgs.xkcd.com/comics/wisdom_of_the_ancients.png
2019-11-08T16:37:18 < aandrew> although one worse than that is the rollowup "I fixe it, thanks!" with no explanation
2019-11-08T16:39:15 < Mangy_Dog> lol
2019-11-08T16:39:32 < Mangy_Dog> i know that feeling soooooo much
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2019-11-08T16:44:29 < aandrew> this glitter thing is hilarious
2019-11-08T16:44:37 < aandrew> like 3msgs/10m "is this the forum?" 
2019-11-08T16:45:02 < aandrew> I mean fuck ask e.se to create stm32duino.stackexchange.com and move there
2019-11-08T16:45:24 < Mangy_Dog> :D
2019-11-08T16:45:26 < Mangy_Dog> guilty
2019-11-08T16:45:47 < aandrew> heh
2019-11-08T16:46:18 < aandrew> I thought "hey I can use python to create a quick "send this fixed binary data to a tcp server"... after a few min I was like fuck that and wrote it in C in 2m.
2019-11-08T16:46:28 < Mangy_Dog> theres also https://mcu.selfip.com/index.php
2019-11-08T16:47:25 < aandrew> https://pastebin.com/EMQ3kQAK
2019-11-08T16:47:55 < Mangy_Dog> i have too much a migrain to look at code right now D:
2019-11-08T16:48:02 < aandrew> man I hate phpbb and smf
2019-11-08T16:48:15 < Mangy_Dog> looks like c?
2019-11-08T16:48:24 < Mangy_Dog> well a C
2019-11-08T16:48:25 < Steffanx> You didnt do that in 2minutes aandrew  :P
2019-11-08T16:48:38 < aandrew> Steffanx: actually the basic "connect and send" was about 2m
2019-11-08T16:48:45 < aandrew> that one is the refined cleaned up one
2019-11-08T16:49:29 < aandrew> it took 2m on it sown to learn the posix way to get high res timers
2019-11-08T16:49:46 < aandrew> and learn about clock_getres/gettime which was new for me
2019-11-08T16:49:55 < aandrew> but nicely portable and offers different clocks depending on what I'm after
2019-11-08T16:50:12 < aandrew> on osx CLOCK_REALTIME is 1us resolution
2019-11-08T16:50:25 < aandrew> which isn't super granular but more than enough for my needs
2019-11-08T16:50:35 < Mangy_Dog> hmmmmmmmmm
2019-11-08T16:50:38 < Mangy_Dog> f7 looks pretty
2019-11-08T16:50:46 < aandrew> yep f7 is nice
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2019-11-08T16:51:10 < Steffanx> H7 dual core is nicer, Mangy_Dog 
2019-11-08T16:51:13 < Mangy_Dog> i also like how it can be flashed to an external flash decide
2019-11-08T16:51:26 < Mangy_Dog> so if you have a stupidly large program
2019-11-08T16:51:34 < Mangy_Dog> not constrained to the internal flash
2019-11-08T16:51:44 < aandrew> actually the FPGA board I did has an FMC interface between the FPGA and STM32
2019-11-08T16:51:59 < aandrew> wrote a very stupid-simple PSRAM emulator that the stm32 can read and write from
2019-11-08T16:52:06 < Steffanx> The H7 can come with 2M by itself iirc  Mangy_Dog  
2019-11-08T16:52:07 < aandrew> 160MB/sec
2019-11-08T16:52:12 < Steffanx> That's already crazy large
2019-11-08T16:52:16 < Mangy_Dog> only issue for me though is im painfulyl relient on translation cores like rogers and steves
2019-11-08T16:52:31 < Mangy_Dog> nod
2019-11-08T16:52:34 < Mangy_Dog> s
2019-11-08T16:53:06 < Mangy_Dog> built in graphics acceliration :o
2019-11-08T16:53:28 < Mangy_Dog> i actually rather like the ftdi/bridgetec 810 series
2019-11-08T16:53:40 < Mangy_Dog> but wish it had more command space and image space
2019-11-08T16:53:48 < Mangy_Dog> 2k commands
2019-11-08T16:53:53 < Mangy_Dog> 2kb storage
2019-11-08T16:53:57 < Mangy_Dog> not great
2019-11-08T16:54:05 < Mangy_Dog> wait mb2 storage
2019-11-08T16:54:07 < aandrew> I try to do ethernet for everything these days. USB sucks
2019-11-08T16:54:25 < aandrew> I should probably get my ass to work
2019-11-08T16:54:27 < aandrew> 10am
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2019-11-08T16:56:20 < Mangy_Dog> f7 can also do real audio :o
2019-11-08T16:56:26 < Mangy_Dog> i mean sure why not its over 200mhz
2019-11-08T16:56:28 < Mangy_Dog> but still
2019-11-08T16:56:35 < Mangy_Dog> mind boggles when it comes to higher speed mcus
2019-11-08T16:56:45 < Mangy_Dog> at what point do they turn into cpus
2019-11-08T16:56:45 < Mangy_Dog> :p
2019-11-08T16:57:08 < karlp> tehse days the distinction tends to be whether it has an mmu and a ddr3/4 interfrace or not.
2019-11-08T16:57:28 < Mangy_Dog> mmu?
2019-11-08T17:02:50 < ac_slater> hey guys, I've had plenty of success using the STM32HAL on my STM32F4 nucleo. I have a SPI slave device that performs exactly as expected on my non-STM32 masters when the 'baud' is 1Mbit/s. I noticed with the STM32 HAL, I can only specify certain perscalers, none of which are exactly 1Mbit/s
2019-11-08T17:03:12 < ac_slater> none of which equate to 1Mbit/s baud * 
2019-11-08T17:03:58 < ac_slater> any idea how I can set the STM32 master's SPI baud to 1Mbit/s
2019-11-08T17:04:05 < aandrew> ac_slater: correct; SPI clock is a function of the peripheral clock the SPI peripheral is connected to and the prescaler
2019-11-08T17:04:12 < karlp> change the scalers on the peripheral clock itself
2019-11-08T17:04:47 < aandrew> ac_slater: so you can theoretically set the prescaler to something like /64 and scale the appropriate PCLK to 64MHz using the clock tree
2019-11-08T17:05:12 < aandrew> ac_slater: 99% of the time the slave does not give a shit on the actual SPI clock speed, as long as it's under it's maximum. Why do you need an exact 1Mbit/sec?
2019-11-08T17:05:23 < karlp> ^^^^ ^^
2019-11-08T17:05:50 < aandrew> even SPI UARTs dont' care, they have their own clock to give you wahtever baudrate you actually need
2019-11-08T17:05:52 < karlp> and if it realllly wats 1Mbit and nothing more, nothing less, toss it in the bin :)
2019-11-08T17:06:02 < aandrew> :-)
2019-11-08T17:09:04 < ac_slater> this is awesome
2019-11-08T17:09:07 < ac_slater> thanks guys
2019-11-08T17:09:32 < ac_slater> I think my slave has other issues but I have to baseline against the "working" master before I start doing other things
2019-11-08T17:11:45 < ac_slater> thanks a lot guys
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2019-11-08T17:14:31 < ac_slater> sadly, my main BSP is generated from CubeMX :(. Anyone know how to configure the peripheral clock prescaler from CubeMX? Here is the SPI init generated from CubeMX https://paste.debian.net/plain/1115260
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2019-11-08T17:18:35 < kakinull> https://www.mouser.fi/datasheet/2/609/ADuCM350-1503545.pdf what dis?
2019-11-08T17:19:21 < kakinull> https://www.mouser.com/datasheet/2/609/ADuCM350-1503545.pdf <- with .com instead of .fi
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2019-11-08T17:22:08  * Laurenceb fails at shell scripts
2019-11-08T17:22:10 < Laurenceb> f=$(ls -t $g*.wav $g*.rf64 | top -n 1)
2019-11-08T17:22:18 < Laurenceb> ^ how do I make the windcard work?
2019-11-08T17:22:24 < Laurenceb> *wildcard
2019-11-08T17:23:41 < ac_slater> ${g} ? 
2019-11-08T17:23:55 < ac_slater> if g is a variable. I assume you're talking about bash
2019-11-08T17:24:08 < Laurenceb> ls: cannot access '~/Sync/*.wav': No such file or directory
2019-11-08T17:24:12 < Laurenceb> erm yeah bash
2019-11-08T17:25:11 < ac_slater> the ##bash channel on freenode is outstanding
2019-11-08T17:25:16 < Laurenceb> ok
2019-11-08T17:25:23 < ac_slater> sorry, #bash
2019-11-08T17:30:40 < ac_slater> it seems there is no dedicated SPI2 clock... hmm
2019-11-08T17:32:39 < ac_slater> oh I see, __HAL_RCC_SPI2_CLK_ENABLE() is a macro that messes with RCC->APB1 I guess
2019-11-08T17:33:52 < ac_slater> do I really want to adjust the WHOLE APB1 clock just to mess with my SPI2 clock?
2019-11-08T17:35:19 < karlp> if you want to get specific fractions you can't do with the standard spi dividers, that is your option yes.
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2019-11-08T17:35:37 < karlp> seriously, you can't get something a bit lower or otherwise wihtin spec?
2019-11-08T17:36:54 < ac_slater> karlp: I'm experimenting. I think my SPI slave device (MSP430) is just dumb. The errata says there are certail issues when CLKPOL=1 if the master (STM32) doesn't idle the clock high - which is the case. I'm just making sure everything else is sane before messing with that bug
2019-11-08T17:37:14 < ac_slater> but generally, I understand SPI baud rates are not exact and I should be able to clock a bit higher without issue
2019-11-08T17:37:28 < aandrew> ac_slater: that's done in the clock config in cubemx
2019-11-08T17:38:20 < aandrew> ac_slater: there are a bunch of peripherals clocked off APB1 and a bunch off of APB2. You can't control a clock to an individual peripheral so you need to adjust PCLK1/2, but again I would not worry about this
2019-11-08T17:38:52 < aandrew> just amke sure your SPI clock is less than 1MHz for testing (you know 1MHz works, so less will also work, right down to DC unless you have a really screwy SPI slave) and ramp it up once it's working
2019-11-08T17:39:48 < ac_slater> gotcha, thanks for the advice. I just wanted to see if baud had any effect. And it doesnt as you suspected. I put the APB1  peripherals to 32MHz and put the SPI2 prescaler to /32 and got 1MBit/s. Didn't make a difference
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2019-11-08T17:42:37 < aandrew> timer peripherals are an exception, as they can receive a clock that is 2x the PCLK they're hooked up to
2019-11-08T17:42:57 < ac_slater> very cool
2019-11-08T17:43:03 < ac_slater> that makes sense
2019-11-08T17:43:20 < ac_slater> I'm dealing with a bug on my slave, hopefully you've guys have encountered this somewhere https://i.imgur.com/vgBSest.png
2019-11-08T17:43:54 < karlp> msp430 <<== foudn the problem? :)
2019-11-08T17:44:00 < ac_slater> apparently the STM32F4's SPI2 clock is "not at the appropriate idle level" 
2019-11-08T17:44:19 < aandrew> good god what part is that
2019-11-08T17:44:22 < ac_slater> I know man, the msp430 is neat but the erratas are large
2019-11-08T17:44:25 < aandrew> that datasheet snippet is ass
2019-11-08T17:44:45 < karlp> workaround 1 ftw there if you can.
2019-11-08T17:44:57 < ac_slater> MSP430FR5994
2019-11-08T17:45:06 < karlp> I'm presuming that's not an option for some "really good" reason? :)
2019-11-08T17:45:14 < ac_slater> karlp: I can change the firmware on the MSP430 but I would like to avoid it
2019-11-08T17:45:31 < ac_slater> I tried setting all CLKPOL=0 on both devices and it didn't really matter
2019-11-08T17:45:50 < zyp> do you have CLKPHA right?
2019-11-08T17:46:04 < ac_slater> sorry, I mean Phase, no polarity
2019-11-08T17:46:15 < ac_slater> on both devices, phase=1 and pol=1
2019-11-08T17:46:43 < ac_slater> my actually issue is exactly what this errata describes, first byte is duplicated 
2019-11-08T17:47:48 < ac_slater> i guess it's important to know the slave is using eUSCI_B since the errata differentiates 
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2019-11-08T17:49:08 < ac_slater> I really have to adapt around this issue on the master (STM32F4). I guess I have to put the SPI2 Clock in GPIO mode and raise it high (to match CLKPH=1) while I'm resetting the slave
2019-11-08T17:49:21 < ac_slater> SPI2 Clock Pin*
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2019-11-08T17:53:09 < mawk> isn't there a bit in the spi control registers to set clock high rather ac_slater ?
2019-11-08T17:53:14 < mawk> using gpio mode sounds dirty
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2019-11-08T17:56:29 < aandrew> I always use manual (GPIO) SS# control because I send 5 bytes and don't want to fuck around 
2019-11-08T17:56:43 < aandrew> but this I'm pretty sure has specific SPI configurations to help with the idle state of sCK
2019-11-08T17:56:46 < ac_slater> mawk: I've been looking in the reference for such a config, can't find it yet
2019-11-08T17:56:51 < mawk> yeah for SS I get the gpio
2019-11-08T17:56:53 < mawk> but not much for clock
2019-11-08T17:57:31 < ac_slater> right, my SPI connection is 3-wire as it's the only peripheral/slave. So I don't use SS or CS or whatever
2019-11-08T17:57:50 < mawk> I don't think CS is optional
2019-11-08T17:58:02 < karlp> of course it is.
2019-11-08T17:58:12 < mawk> how does the slave wake up then ?
2019-11-08T17:58:17 < karlp> however the fuck it wants to.
2019-11-08T17:58:21 < karlp> spi doesn't require cs. 
2019-11-08T17:58:24 < ac_slater> it's always awake
2019-11-08T17:58:27 < ac_slater> in my case at least
2019-11-08T17:58:34 < ac_slater> interrupt driven on the MOSI line
2019-11-08T17:58:35 < karlp> many impelmentstions of master/slave rely on cs, but that's not required anywhere
2019-11-08T17:58:47 < mawk> thank you karlp for your infinite wisdom
2019-11-08T17:58:54 < karlp> infinite! :)
2019-11-08T17:58:55 < mawk> your services are maybe required elsewhere now, go
2019-11-08T17:59:12 < karlp> hoho :)
2019-11-08T17:59:20 < karlp> but really, CS is not required
2019-11-08T17:59:23 < mawk> oh if you want I can sign you up to a french etiquette class, you can pretend you're the upper society after that
2019-11-08T17:59:35 < mawk> clear up that commoner attitude a bit
2019-11-08T18:00:03 < karlp> I generally peer down on peopel, but that's mostly height related :)
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2019-11-08T18:05:12 < ac_slater> I appreciate the help guys.
2019-11-08T18:05:17 < buZz> welcome
2019-11-08T18:05:19 < buZz> :P
2019-11-08T18:05:32 < ac_slater> I'm looking for that register for idle clock state
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2019-11-08T18:10:22 < karlp> in the stm32 or the msp430?
2019-11-08T18:10:51 < karlp> lower two bits of SPI_CR1 on the stm32 side
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2019-11-08T18:16:12 < ac_slater> karlp: oh nice thanks!
2019-11-08T18:17:41 < qyx> it is nice there are dual 100Base-T1 transceivers
2019-11-08T18:17:52 < qyx> but there are no multiport RMII/MII switches
2019-11-08T18:18:15 < ac_slater> karlp: so, here is the question. Through the HAL, I can set CLKPH=1 and CLKPOL=1 easily (which is the lower two bits of SPI_CR1). But is this the same as "idle level" ?
2019-11-08T18:20:57 < bitmask> hmm, what does open drain mean
2019-11-08T18:23:29 < bitmask> the pin is internally connected to the drain of a mosfet which is otherwise left unconnected?
2019-11-08T18:24:06 < bitmask> so to use it you need a pull up resistor
2019-11-08T18:26:07 < bitmask> or what if you don't want anything to happen when its high, if you want it to just light an led when its low can you just attach a led with series resistor? or may the light flicker when high in that case
2019-11-08T18:41:15 < emeryth> bitmask: it means the pin is floating on high, pulled to ground on low
2019-11-08T18:42:16 < bitmask> yea so do you need a pull up to prevent any uncertainty when its high?
2019-11-08T18:44:36 < Cracki> yes
2019-11-08T18:44:57 < Cracki> the principle is old: mechanical switch to close the circuit
2019-11-08T18:45:20 < Cracki> the condition can be detected by voltage or by current
2019-11-08T18:46:29 < Cracki> when "it's high", the output leaves the pin alone, so it's really considered high impedance
2019-11-08T18:46:58 < Cracki> pullup gives defined potential
2019-11-08T18:47:07 < BrainDamage> bitmask: https://awwapp.com/b/upq513bud/
2019-11-08T18:47:59 < BrainDamage> red line splits what's on-chip and outside
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2019-11-08T18:48:19 < Cracki> first two are considered push-pull, eh?
2019-11-08T18:48:27 < BrainDamage> yes
2019-11-08T18:48:40 < BrainDamage> a open drain just lacks the upper switch
2019-11-08T18:49:12 < kakinull> hello evening dear
2019-11-08T18:49:35 < bitmask> k
2019-11-08T18:49:38 < BrainDamage> one important property of open drain is that you can parallel ideally infinite amount of pins without damage
2019-11-08T18:49:44 < Cracki> the point of open drain/collector is that this lets you talk on a bus because it's physical and gate
2019-11-08T18:50:11 < kakinull> is there any cheap SOC with ethernet mac?
2019-11-08T18:50:18 < kakinull> ones like esp and such
2019-11-08T18:50:21 < bitmask> i just wanna drive an led with it so nothing complicated
2019-11-08T18:50:32 < kakinull> bitmask is wanting helloworld
2019-11-08T18:50:43 < Cracki> how soc do you need it? some stm32 have ethernet builtin, don't they
2019-11-08T18:51:39 < Cracki> I assume you aren't crazy enough for enc28j60, and you know about those wiznet things
2019-11-08T18:51:53 < buZz> lol
2019-11-08T18:52:10 < buZz> imho, ban enc28j60 from all LANs
2019-11-08T18:52:36 < specing>  What is wrong with enc28j60?
2019-11-08T18:52:57 < buZz> try it :P
2019-11-08T18:52:57 < Cracki> it's awful to use
2019-11-08T18:53:04 < buZz> you can sample one for free still, i bet
2019-11-08T18:53:08 < Cracki> you have to do everything, no offloading at all
2019-11-08T18:53:12 < buZz> cause nobody wants to use it
2019-11-08T18:53:28 < Cracki> I'm not even sure the enc28j60 has any buffer inside of it
2019-11-08T18:53:47 < Steffanx> Bitbang that 10base-t
2019-11-08T18:54:04 < specing> buZz: I still have one unused in my drawer
2019-11-08T18:54:25 < buZz> thats the role they serve best
2019-11-08T18:54:44 < Cracki> browse the datashit for lols http://ww1.microchip.com/downloads/en/devicedoc/39662e.pdf
2019-11-08T18:55:24 < Cracki> oh, it does have some buffer...
2019-11-08T18:58:38 < kakinull> SAMA5D2 what do you think?
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2019-11-08T18:59:36 < Cracki> cortex A5 hmm
2019-11-08T18:59:49 < kakinull> too much to handle?
2019-11-08T19:00:00 < Cracki> no clue. do you need it? can you handle it?
2019-11-08T19:00:10 < Cracki> sounds like you want to use it for the discrete ram and whatnot
2019-11-08T19:00:30 < kakinull> it does not have anything but cache
2019-11-08T19:00:56 < Steffanx> Buy one of those all in one packages.
2019-11-08T19:01:03 < Cracki> every time I see hyuuuge boards with castellated holes... https://www.digikey.de/product-detail/de/microchip-technology/ATSAMA5D27-SOM1/ATSAMA5D27-SOM1-ND/8536637
2019-11-08T19:01:23 < kakinull> actually
2019-11-08T19:01:31 < kakinull> it has internal SRAM and flash
2019-11-08T19:01:45 < kakinull> pretty much the same than in mcu of same price
2019-11-08T19:01:49 < Cracki> hmhm
2019-11-08T19:02:12 < Cracki> cute, 1.1-1.32V vcore
2019-11-08T19:02:20 < kakinull> indeed
2019-11-08T19:02:32 < kakinull> I bet that runs lower power than f107
2019-11-08T19:02:39 < kakinull> when the task is the same
2019-11-08T19:02:55 < Cracki> lower voltage, but maybe you need 200 amps :>
2019-11-08T19:03:00 < kakinull> and it has a tonne of IO
2019-11-08T19:03:01 < kakinull> a tonne
2019-11-08T19:03:08 < Cracki> the A5 is sure gonna run fast
2019-11-08T19:03:23 < Cracki> just from instructions per cycle
2019-11-08T19:04:08 < Cracki> they say 150 mW active, 0.5 mW in low power (sleep?)
2019-11-08T19:04:14 < Cracki> how does the f107 fare
2019-11-08T19:04:18 < qyx> kakinull: usable
2019-11-08T19:04:31 < kakinull> have you used it?
2019-11-08T19:04:37 < qyx> yes
2019-11-08T19:04:45 < Cracki> "0.8pitch" bga196, sounds doable
2019-11-08T19:04:45 < kakinull> have you linuxed it?
2019-11-08T19:04:47 < qyx> sama5d27-som1
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2019-11-08T19:04:54 < qyx> yes
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2019-11-08T19:05:12 < qyx> it has 128M dram onchip
2019-11-08T19:05:20 < qyx> some spi flash
2019-11-08T19:05:24 < qyx> ethernet phy
2019-11-08T19:05:56 < kakinull> – One 128-Kbyte scrambled internal SRAM
2019-11-08T19:06:01 < kakinull> what is scrambled?
2019-11-08T19:06:13 < qyx> on the fly encryption
2019-11-08T19:06:19 < kakinull> why?
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2019-11-08T19:06:41 < qyx> sama5dwx have pretty good security
2019-11-08T19:06:48 < qyx> secure boot, etc
2019-11-08T19:07:02 < qyx> -w
2019-11-08T19:07:12 < kakinull> sounds good for remote device
2019-11-08T19:07:24 < kakinull> potentially running security critical application
2019-11-08T19:07:30 < qyx> I am using it for my HVAC PLC
2019-11-08T19:07:42 < qyx> also planning to use it for remote linux
2019-11-08T19:08:05 < kakinull> did you bake it yourself?
2019-11-08T19:08:53 < qyx> I did drag solder the som1
2019-11-08T19:09:09 < qyx> I havent used the bga as is
2019-11-08T19:09:26 < qyx> also
2019-11-08T19:09:30 < qyx> check octavo systems
2019-11-08T19:09:44 < kakinull> I have heard of octavo
2019-11-08T19:10:17 < kakinull> I read about some f107 ntp server gtxi made it refered to octavo systems
2019-11-08T19:10:34 < kakinull> just last night
2019-11-08T19:10:47 < kakinull> it was called "laurene" or something that ntp box
2019-11-08T19:10:54 < Cracki> hvac plc?
2019-11-08T19:11:00 < Cracki> how much plc?
2019-11-08T19:11:15 < kakinull> internal PLC modem?
2019-11-08T19:11:21 < kakinull> or what it's called
2019-11-08T19:11:33 < kakinull> PLC whisperer
2019-11-08T19:12:11 < kakinull> oh
2019-11-08T19:12:17 < kakinull> programmable logic controller
2019-11-08T19:12:21 < Cracki> I know PLC as microcontrollers in a rack, for industrial environments
2019-11-08T19:12:44 < Cracki> and every I/O is 24 volts digital/power, or 4-20 mA or 0-10V
2019-11-08T19:12:57 < Cracki> or io link or whatever else people come up with these days
2019-11-08T19:13:30 < kakinull> why you scramble internal sram?
2019-11-08T19:13:52 < kakinull> I understand of-fly-encryption of external mem
2019-11-08T19:14:46 < kakinull> for same reason than external? mem lines are potentially relativelly easy to probe from chip die?
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2019-11-08T19:35:02 < Cracki> for all you OCD component sorting people: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XrnoqusTrHg
2019-11-08T19:36:14 < Cracki> dicknplaces need to go the way of the 3d printer, i.e. sub-500-bucks, tolerable speed, all problems solved by software
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2019-11-08T19:45:54 < kakinull> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i7eWKXHvXl0 conan
2019-11-08T19:46:07 < kakinull> new remotes
2019-11-08T19:46:09 < kakinull> ghana
2019-11-08T19:46:57 -!- ac_slater [~weechat@144.121.38.133] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds]
2019-11-08T19:47:07 < qyx> Cracki: I cannot imagine having 500 such boxes
2019-11-08T19:47:24 < Cracki> do you have 500 bags of stuff?
2019-11-08T19:47:34 < Cracki> tbh bags of stuff appeals to me too
2019-11-08T19:47:44 < qyx> I started to organize my stuff
2019-11-08T19:47:50 < qyx> so far 255 types
2019-11-08T19:48:09 < qyx> I am at 10% maaybe
2019-11-08T19:48:26 < Cracki> a dicknplace needs maybe several dozen standard components reeled in feeders, and anything else it must be able to pick up from ordered trays or thrown loosely into dishes
2019-11-08T19:48:58 < aandrew> Cracki: I saw that on hackaday
2019-11-08T19:49:10 < qyx> I am using wen-tai boxes for smd
2019-11-08T19:49:14 < Cracki> there's no reason for proper vision to require a tray as opposed to loose dish
2019-11-08T19:49:19 < aandrew> neat idea, but my system is pretty good
2019-11-08T19:49:58 < Cracki> I'm most scared of that cover tape getting pulled off. components end up in lungs real quick
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2019-11-08T19:52:02 < aandrew> Cracki: I've placed thousands of components and have never had one in my lungs
2019-11-08T19:52:35 < aandrew> my usual routine is to peel back enough tape to dump the right number of components on the table, then use tweezers to place them. Only the right number because that's a quick check if I'm missing any
2019-11-08T19:52:39 < Cracki> you know the statistic about people swallowing spiders in their sleep
2019-11-08T19:52:45 < aandrew> yep
2019-11-08T19:52:53 < Cracki> you know it's false
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2019-11-08T20:07:48 < kakipr0> with 200pin MPU it makes sense to create separate pcb for the "system chips" part?
2019-11-08T20:08:26 < kakipr0> I imagine it takes 4 or more layers
2019-11-08T20:08:34 < kakipr0> also higher tolerances
2019-11-08T20:09:47 < kakipr0> SOM for SAMA5D27 costs cool 37euros
2019-11-08T20:10:15 < kakipr0> fetures 1Gbit of ram and ethernet phy and something else
2019-11-08T20:11:38 < kakipr0> it's quite a contrast to sub 6eur price of SAMA5D21
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2019-11-08T20:18:44 < Cracki> low volume dev board
2019-11-08T20:18:53 < Cracki> they'll ask money for that
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2019-11-08T20:26:18 < Laurenceb> they said it was a good idea to use resilio sync
2019-11-08T20:26:22 < Laurenceb> it was a bad idea
2019-11-08T20:26:27 < Laurenceb> resilio doesnt sync
2019-11-08T20:26:35 < Laurenceb> a more accurate name
2019-11-08T20:29:57 < Laurenceb> oh shit
2019-11-08T20:30:07 < Laurenceb>  "You dont have permission to do that"
2019-11-08T20:30:41 < Cracki> did a silicon valley startup name that thing
2019-11-08T20:30:48 < Laurenceb> yes
2019-11-08T20:30:51 < Laurenceb> wtf
2019-11-08T20:30:54 < Cracki> nuke the valley
2019-11-08T20:30:59 < Laurenceb> where are the log files
2019-11-08T20:31:06 < Laurenceb> this is unusable junk
2019-11-08T20:31:12 < Cracki> systemd collected them in a binary
2019-11-08T20:34:37 < Laurenceb> ok other server cant see me
2019-11-08T20:34:39 < Laurenceb> wtf
2019-11-08T20:34:41 < BrainDamage> Laurenceb: use syncthing
2019-11-08T20:34:52 < BrainDamage> even if it's open source it's high quality
2019-11-08T20:35:02 < Laurenceb> BrainDamage: I "have" to use this as its whats running on the server
2019-11-08T20:35:09 < Laurenceb> oh shit
2019-11-08T20:35:10 < englishman> sync thing is gre8
2019-11-08T20:35:14 < Laurenceb> maybe the admin b& me
2019-11-08T20:35:16 < Laurenceb> lmao
2019-11-08T20:35:28 < englishman> backing up babbyshek
2019-11-08T20:35:36 < Laurenceb> b& from babbyshak
2019-11-08T20:35:57 < englishman> to swindon you go
2019-11-08T20:36:12 < Laurenceb> lol
2019-11-08T20:36:28 < Laurenceb> its funny cuz Sargon was a system admin
2019-11-08T20:36:30 < Cracki> why would you back that up
2019-11-08T20:37:21 < Laurenceb> good point
2019-11-08T20:37:27 < Laurenceb> screw this I'm not fixing it
2019-11-08T20:37:33 < Laurenceb> its on the server ok
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2019-11-08T21:01:06 < Laurenceb> I dont think I like lunix
2019-11-08T21:01:09 < Laurenceb> wtf is going on
2019-11-08T21:01:37 < Laurenceb> https://pastebin.com/6KPgn3We
2019-11-08T21:01:48 < Laurenceb> this shit is looping for some reason
2019-11-08T21:01:50 < Laurenceb> or something
2019-11-08T21:01:58 < Laurenceb> lsof is using 100% cpu
2019-11-08T21:02:19 < Laurenceb> line 23
2019-11-08T21:07:31 < Laurenceb> what the actual fuck
2019-11-08T21:11:23 < buZz> check 'dmesg' ;)
2019-11-08T21:11:28 < buZz> probably some hw issue 
2019-11-08T21:11:53 < BrainDamage> lsof will block for a while if some filesystem is inaccessible
2019-11-08T21:11:56 < BrainDamage> until it timeouts
2019-11-08T21:12:08 < BrainDamage> it's a horrible consequence of posix standard
2019-11-08T21:12:14 < BrainDamage> where all the rw are blocking
2019-11-08T21:12:58 < Steffanx> Too many spaces in the script Laurenceb.
2019-11-08T21:13:58 < Laurenceb> maybe line 29
2019-11-08T21:14:10 < Laurenceb> is somehow making it recursive?
2019-11-08T21:14:35 < BrainDamage> btw, single-letter variables, really?
2019-11-08T21:14:55 < PaulFertser> Laurenceb: fyi, you can run it with "bash -x scriptname.sh" to see what it's doing
2019-11-08T21:16:07 < Cracki> single letter variables, the mark of an engineer
2019-11-08T21:16:32 < Cracki> or at least academic
2019-11-08T21:17:10 < Laurenceb> oh it needs a space after =
2019-11-08T21:17:12 < Laurenceb> maybe...
2019-11-08T21:19:09 < Cracki> batch scripting is old. old languages love to have no proper strings and they love to make whitespace matter in aesthetically abhorrent ways
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2019-11-08T21:19:59 < BrainDamage> shell scripts are a special type of cursed because it has no proper arrays, or better, space semantically encodes arrays
2019-11-08T21:20:20 < BrainDamage> hence all the quoting nightmare, space sensitivity, etc
2019-11-08T21:21:15 < BrainDamage> i feel like the best way to use a shell script is to just use pipes between a couple of programs, and if you go past that, switch to a sane language
2019-11-08T21:21:48 < Cracki> something I'd like python to have is a way to not write ["./a.out", "arg1", str(somenum), f"{.3f:somefloat}", ...]
2019-11-08T21:22:22 < Cracki> but instead write it space-separated, but still maintain elements, rather than build (and then separate) a string
2019-11-08T21:22:42 < Cracki> *{somefloat:.3f}
2019-11-08T21:23:29 < PaulFertser> BrainDamage: what's your choice for a sane language there? E.g. python is a bit too unfriendly when it comes to capturing stdout (unlike shell's $()).
2019-11-08T21:24:44 < zyp> PaulFertser, once you're doing python, you don't need to run a bunch of executables to get trivial outputs
2019-11-08T21:24:55 < Cracki> subprocess.check_output(...).read() is how I would do it
2019-11-08T21:25:08 < zyp> but yeah, if you have to, subprocess is good
2019-11-08T21:25:11 < PaulFertser> zyp: that's a whole different mindset indeed
2019-11-08T21:25:24 < PaulFertser> Cracki: this looks way more complex than v=`lalala`
2019-11-08T21:25:27 < Cracki> oh, the .read() may not be necessary
2019-11-08T21:25:34 < Cracki> sure
2019-11-08T21:25:50 < zyp> sounds like you're asking for perl
2019-11-08T21:25:52 < Cracki> I think python used to have backticks... or was that php
2019-11-08T21:26:28 < Cracki> perl is good if you want to write-protect your code
2019-11-08T21:26:28 < Laurenceb> ok it was the space
2019-11-08T21:26:38 < Laurenceb> but now linbe 29 is being weird
2019-11-08T21:26:58 < Laurenceb> I think cron is behaving differently to command line
2019-11-08T21:27:07 < Cracki> I considered learning perl for the purpose of scaring people, and also because it's in between shit shell scripts and python's lack of pipes and backticks
2019-11-08T21:27:26 < Cracki> cron may not look your executable up but need an absolute path?
2019-11-08T21:27:45 < Cracki> diff how
2019-11-08T21:27:59 < Laurenceb> well it works from command line
2019-11-08T21:28:06 < Laurenceb> yeah maybe I should have used perl
2019-11-08T21:28:18 < zyp> Cracki, if you wanna do even worse, you can learn ruby, which to me looks like an ugly crossover between python and perl
2019-11-08T21:28:41 < Cracki> ruby tanked after people saw they didn't have to use ruby on rails for their web apps
2019-11-08T21:29:21 < Cracki> ruby had a rise and fall. python just had a creeping rise and seems to be here to stay
2019-11-08T21:29:40 < Steffanx> enjoy this musiv video kakipr0 / kakinull : https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a3w8I8boc_I
2019-11-08T21:31:56 < Cracki> python needs macros. that'd be awesome.
2019-11-08T21:32:44 < Laurenceb> d=$(dirname "$0") got it
2019-11-08T21:32:48 < Laurenceb> cancerscript
2019-11-08T21:34:49 < kakipr0> anyone done system on modules?
2019-11-08T21:35:04 < kakipr0> Steffanx?
2019-11-08T21:35:21 < Steffanx> its music video :P
2019-11-08T21:35:29 < kakipr0> yes
2019-11-08T21:35:35 < kakipr0> but have you done system in modules
2019-11-08T21:35:45 < kakipr0> on*
2019-11-08T21:35:54 < Steffanx> nope
2019-11-08T21:36:03 < Steffanx> i would just buy one
2019-11-08T21:37:12 < Steffanx> or buy an all in one IC from that company i cant remember hte name of, but mr qyx links it all the time.
2019-11-08T21:39:40 < Steffanx> octavosystems it was
2019-11-08T21:41:10 < Steffanx> you want to go that way kakipr0?
2019-11-08T21:45:46 < zyp> the octavo thing is cute but not very powerful
2019-11-08T21:45:50 < zyp> and IIRC not very cheap either
2019-11-08T21:46:08 < Laurenceb> ok wut
2019-11-08T21:46:21 < Laurenceb> it runs from command line, but from cron job, line 35 fails
2019-11-08T21:46:29 < Laurenceb> with no output to logfile...
2019-11-08T21:46:40 < Laurenceb> flatpak run --filesystem=host org.octave.Octave "$d"/dataprocessupper.m $g --no-gui
2019-11-08T21:47:00 < buZz> maybe just let the sysadmin fix it
2019-11-08T21:47:19 < BrainDamage> check the current working directory
2019-11-08T21:47:36 < BrainDamage> also, g is unquoted
2019-11-08T21:47:42 < Laurenceb> hmm ok
2019-11-08T21:47:52 < Steffanx> the samwhatever kakipr0 mentioned before isnt either, zyp
2019-11-08T21:48:35 < Steffanx> powerful that is
2019-11-08T22:08:35 < kakipr0> how much the octavo costs?
2019-11-08T22:09:10 < Steffanx> depends on the one you want
2019-11-08T22:11:41 < kakipr0> linux in chip
2019-11-08T22:12:26 < kakipr0> 50eur
2019-11-08T22:12:51 < kakipr0> not ok for this project
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2019-11-08T22:15:38 < kakipr0> availibility for 512MB of ram version
2019-11-08T22:15:48 < kakipr0> that is way too much
2019-11-08T22:17:05 -!- con3 [~kvirc@154.119.40.183] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds]
2019-11-08T22:19:37 < buZz> just solder a pizero on your pcb
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2019-11-08T22:27:47 < qyx> kakipr0: allwinner f1c100s
2019-11-08T22:27:52 < qyx> supercheap, tricky
2019-11-08T22:28:09 < qyx> not very poverful
2019-11-08T22:28:46 < qyx> in qfn
2019-11-08T22:29:13 < qyx> Steffanx: because they look good, I haven't uset it yet though
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2019-11-08T22:32:37 < Laurenceb> https://www.cnx-software.com/2018/08/17/licheepi-nano-cheap-sd-card-sized-linux-board/
2019-11-08T22:32:42 < Laurenceb> yeah but lunix
2019-11-08T22:33:59 < buZz> yeah decent OS
2019-11-08T22:34:06 < buZz> not this msdos nonsense
2019-11-08T22:34:31 -!- ac_slater [~weechat@144.121.38.133] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds]
2019-11-08T22:35:02 < qyx> licheepi nano has that cpu
2019-11-08T22:35:02 < Laurenceb> kek embedded dos
2019-11-08T22:35:20 < qyx> but there are two licheepis
2019-11-08T22:35:21 < buZz> i have chips with dos on ROM
2019-11-08T22:35:30 < buZz> 'BeckChip SC12' iirc
2019-11-08T22:35:34 < qyx> one with f1c100s and the other with something else
2019-11-08T22:35:41 < buZz> 80186 + rom + ram + ethernet in a single DIP package
2019-11-08T22:35:43 < Steffanx> lol those are ancient buZz
2019-11-08T22:35:50 < buZz> + rs232 + rs485
2019-11-08T22:35:52 < Steffanx> i used the in the past.
2019-11-08T22:35:52 < buZz> Steffanx: sure are :D
2019-11-08T22:36:01 < qyx> 80186 with ethernet?
2019-11-08T22:36:04 < buZz> yeah
2019-11-08T22:36:05 < Steffanx> yeah
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2019-11-08T22:36:07 < Steffanx> lol
2019-11-08T22:36:10 < buZz> and something like dos3.x in rom?
2019-11-08T22:36:15 < qyx> is it a joke
2019-11-08T22:36:17 < buZz> and a telnet server
2019-11-08T22:36:19 < buZz> a ftp server
2019-11-08T22:36:24 < buZz> qyx: kinda? not sure
2019-11-08T22:36:27 < buZz> it exists, it works
2019-11-08T22:36:31 < buZz> its weird
2019-11-08T22:36:45 < buZz> just like reallife
2019-11-08T22:36:45 < qyx> can you run vnc server to play old dos games?
2019-11-08T22:36:50 < Steffanx> its obsolete though
2019-11-08T22:36:54 < buZz> it doesnt have enough ram to run vnc
2019-11-08T22:36:58 < buZz> and vnc doesnt work for dos
2019-11-08T22:37:06 < qyx> if ftp server works..
2019-11-08T22:37:35 < qyx> some mighty interrupt redirections and you may get graphoic console on the vnc
2019-11-08T22:37:46 < buZz> it doesnt even have a gpu ;)
2019-11-08T22:37:51 < buZz> but, you can totally try
2019-11-08T22:37:55 < buZz> i have spares if you want one
2019-11-08T22:38:04 < buZz> come pick it up next wednesday @ nurdspace.nl
2019-11-08T22:38:05 < Steffanx> why do you even have em
2019-11-08T22:38:06 < buZz> ask for buZz
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2019-11-08T22:38:18 < Steffanx> lol qyx see you in dutchland
2019-11-08T22:38:18 < buZz> Steffanx: ewaste stuff from old ATMs
2019-11-08T22:38:36 < buZz> also came with a pile of hd44780s
2019-11-08T22:38:48 < qyx> haha
2019-11-08T22:39:22 < buZz> :)
2019-11-08T22:40:04 < Laurenceb> Good board, we are running our animated GUI and JavaScript smoothly in this board with RT-Thread OS.
2019-11-08T22:40:06 < Laurenceb> my sides
2019-11-08T22:40:50 < Steffanx> how many sides do you have Laurenceb
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2019-11-08T22:41:13 < qyx> uh oh https://www.beck-ipc.com/en/produkte/sc1x5/
2019-11-08T22:41:19 < buZz> :)
2019-11-08T22:41:24 < buZz> yeah they still make similar stuff
2019-11-08T22:41:30 < qyx> imx7 som in a 25x25mm package
2019-11-08T22:41:35 < qyx> *imx6
2019-11-08T22:41:43 < Steffanx> the sc12 is nicer. huge dip package
2019-11-08T22:41:48 < qyx> but probably 200€ at least
2019-11-08T22:41:52 < Steffanx> huge as in in.. the height
2019-11-08T22:42:39 < buZz> i think i bought em for 50 cent a piece
2019-11-08T22:42:43 < buZz> on some breakout board
2019-11-08T22:43:15 < qyx> what, sc1x5?
2019-11-08T22:43:18 < qyx> or sc12
2019-11-08T22:43:20 < buZz> sc12
2019-11-08T22:43:20 < bitmask> this is a stupid question, but if an IC pin is to be pulled low or high to choose a function, do you need a resistor? I'm guessing its gonna be high impedance and not need one
2019-11-08T22:45:03 < PaulFertser> A resistor is sometimes suggested in case you can accidentally push-pull this pin from the IC side.
2019-11-08T22:47:33 < bitmask> do datasheets usually give a number for the input impedance of digital inputs?
2019-11-08T22:52:00 < PaulFertser> I think yes.
2019-11-08T22:56:20 < qyx> sometimes I hate EE
2019-11-08T22:56:49 < zyp> don't we all?
2019-11-08T22:56:53 < kakipr0> what is not to hate
2019-11-08T22:57:54 -!- c10ud^^ [~c10ud@emesene/dictator/c10ud] has quit [Ping timeout: 268 seconds]
2019-11-08T22:58:08 < qyx> I am returning to AVR and starting to use pinheaders as universal connectors
2019-11-08T22:58:44 < qyx> fuk decoupling, ground planes, filtering, esd protection, industrial connectors and all that nonsense
2019-11-08T22:58:48 < kakipr0> it's the secret to happines
2019-11-08T22:58:53 < kakipr0> just AVR
2019-11-08T22:59:01 < qyx> I will be much happier without all this
2019-11-08T22:59:08 < aandrew> heh
2019-11-08T22:59:12 < kakipr0> many times AVR is just enough
2019-11-08T22:59:16 < Laurenceb> the uni project solution
2019-11-08T22:59:27 < specing> s/uni/high school/
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2019-11-08T22:59:29 < Laurenceb> >AVR and starting to use pinheaders as universal connectors
2019-11-08T22:59:32 < Laurenceb> nope
2019-11-08T22:59:34 < specing> yes
2019-11-08T22:59:36 < zyp> qyx, haha, what's up?
2019-11-08T22:59:38 < Laurenceb> s/undergrad/phd
2019-11-08T22:59:39 < specing> I used AVRs in high school
2019-11-08T23:00:01 < bitmask> im using avr now ;)
2019-11-08T23:00:12 < catphish> i just lost the game
2019-11-08T23:00:50 < qyx> zyp: a combination of much work in the queue, not enough pay work, not enough motivation for pay work, many things I would like to do and not many time for all of them together
2019-11-08T23:01:09 < qyx> because things take time to do them at least semi-properly
2019-11-08T23:01:15 < specing> bitmask: I don't use AVRs any more
2019-11-08T23:01:25 < Steffanx> no ada for avr?
2019-11-08T23:01:27 < specing> bitmask: stm32s are vastly superior and only cost a bit more
2019-11-08T23:01:44 < specing> Steffanx: there is, but the compiler is ancient and not officially supported
2019-11-08T23:01:52 < Steffanx> no way stm32s cost more.
2019-11-08T23:02:10 < specing> hmm, maybe I was comparing to stm8s
2019-11-08T23:02:11  * qyx opening youtube with multi-hour recordings of norway train cabin videos
2019-11-08T23:02:14 < BrainDamage> the annoying shit is setting up the clock tree in stm32
2019-11-08T23:02:22 < specing> yeah BrainDamage 
2019-11-08T23:02:29 < zyp> wat?
2019-11-08T23:02:54 < specing> qyx: good idea
2019-11-08T23:03:02 < Laurenceb> wtf https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/science-environment-50349981
2019-11-08T23:03:02 < qyx> oslo-bergen is my favorite
2019-11-08T23:03:10 < zyp> if the alternative is AVR, you might as well forget about the clock tree and just run with the default settings
2019-11-08T23:03:18 < Laurenceb> >When it gets too hot, the plastic melts and the two wires touch, triggering an alarm
2019-11-08T23:03:29 < zyp> running at 8 MHz from HSI will still outperform AVR
2019-11-08T23:04:23 < zyp> qyx, have you seen «Hurtigruten minutt for minutt»?
2019-11-08T23:04:38 < kakipr0> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=atyvdC15HFA oslo-bergen?
2019-11-08T23:04:51 < qyx> Laurenceb: research is another story, I wanted to do some devices for research purposes, talked to some people at unis and basically found out it is not possible to do anything, because <reasons> (mainly financial and political)
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2019-11-08T23:05:05 < Laurenceb> qyx: yeah same here
2019-11-08T23:05:14 < specing> qyx: what kinda devices?
2019-11-08T23:05:19 < Laurenceb> everything has to meet remit of guys at the top
2019-11-08T23:05:24 < qyx> specing: specialized daq
2019-11-08T23:05:48 < qyx> erosion measurement for example, etc
2019-11-08T23:06:17 < qyx> zyp: :D nope
2019-11-08T23:08:48 < zyp> probably the best of all the slow tv productions they've done
2019-11-08T23:10:34 < zyp> https://www.guinnessworldrecords.com/world-records/longest-live-tv-documentary-broadcast?fb_comment_id=663186563790999_772138679562453
2019-11-08T23:11:47 < Steffanx> best...
2019-11-08T23:12:09 < specing> Steffanx: attiny10 is 56 cents on lcsc, that is 10 cents cheaper than stm32f030....
2019-11-08T23:12:37 < zyp> Steffanx, which would you argue is better?
2019-11-08T23:13:07 < kakipr0> ddr costs like nothing from mouser
2019-11-08T23:13:39 < Steffanx> yes yes zyp. in the land of the blind, the one-eyed man is king :P
2019-11-08T23:14:15 < zyp> also it's pretty fucking awesome :p
2019-11-08T23:14:49 < Steffanx> i like how those new microshit pages are wrong specing. "SRAM (KB): 32" .. my arse.
2019-11-08T23:14:54 < zyp> but sure, go watch big brother or something if that's your preference of live broadcasts
2019-11-08T23:15:06 < Steffanx> is big brother still a thing?
2019-11-08T23:15:13 < zyp> dunno, I don't watch tv
2019-11-08T23:15:30 < specing> Steffanx: I don't care
2019-11-08T23:15:34 < specing> #stm32masterrace
2019-11-08T23:15:46 < Steffanx> #ItDoesntDoAda
2019-11-08T23:15:50 < specing> It does
2019-11-08T23:16:11 < Steffanx> but does ada do it?
2019-11-08T23:16:34 < specing> she practices in[put] and out[put]
2019-11-08T23:17:48 < specing> AVR, RISC-V, stm32 (and some other cortex-m) are supported
2019-11-08T23:18:03 < specing> it can run on top of Linux, too
2019-11-08T23:18:10 < specing> the compiler is gcc
2019-11-08T23:21:16 < qyx> zyp: I trashed my passive backplane idea for ethernet, it cannot be done reasonably well, so active ethernet + usb, both optional
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2019-11-08T23:22:32 < zyp> still -T4, or -TX?
2019-11-08T23:22:55 < kakipr0> I think I wont go to SAMA5D21
2019-11-08T23:23:09 < kakipr0> i'm pretty sure f107 will do the task
2019-11-08T23:23:43 < kakipr0> SAMA5D21 has a tonne of auxiliary
2019-11-08T23:24:20 < kakipr0> and I think my motivation sufficient to do the system design
2019-11-08T23:24:23 < qyx> zyp: 100base-tx, because mii/rmii or other phy switches are basically unobtainable
2019-11-08T23:24:43 < zyp> yeah, that's what I assumed
2019-11-08T23:25:09 < kakipr0> if there is commercial interest in my device then I need to concider SAMA5D21 as "secure platform"
2019-11-08T23:25:19 < zyp> -TX is cheap and you can still get away with capacitor coupling if you want
2019-11-08T23:25:30 < qyx> probably yeah
2019-11-08T23:25:39 < zyp> I've even seen PHY datasheets with alternate schematics for capcoupling
2019-11-08T23:25:48 < qyx> 2 pairs on x1 connector for 100base-tx and another 2 pairs on the x4 connector for full gigabit
2019-11-08T23:26:02 < kakipr0> my 82822 datasheet says one thing about caps
2019-11-08T23:26:12 < kakipr0> and EVM schematic tells another story
2019-11-08T23:26:13 < zyp> sounds like a reasonable path
2019-11-08T23:26:22 < aandrew> what's your project
2019-11-08T23:26:28 < aandrew> I missed it in scrollback
2019-11-08T23:27:32 < kakipr0> mine?
2019-11-08T23:27:36 < aandrew> da
2019-11-08T23:28:05 < zyp> qyx, I think I'm gonna start out simple; just power and usb, and probably a shared i2c bus since that's free anyway
2019-11-08T23:28:08 < kakipr0> energy management platform for remote devices
2019-11-08T23:29:12 < zyp> I figure usb includes 5V vbus to each device that simple boards can run from
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2019-11-08T23:30:02 < zyp> and then a higher voltage bus that plugin boards can both feed to or draw from
2019-11-08T23:30:10 < zyp> and motherboard will also derive 5V from that
2019-11-08T23:30:32 < zyp> that way I can make plugin boards with PoE or usbc-sink or similar
2019-11-08T23:30:35 < aandrew> kakipr0: what's that mean though
2019-11-08T23:30:58 < kakipr0> operates off-grid networked nodes
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2019-11-08T23:31:36 < zyp> a good starting point for what I want to do could be a backplane, a master board that hosts a pi cm3 and a slave board that does usb-ethernet with PoE
2019-11-08T23:31:57 < kakipr0> does battery management, converts dc/dc, switches things on and off, keeps time, runs ntp server
2019-11-08T23:32:24 < aandrew> ok, now i understand
2019-11-08T23:32:26 < kakipr0> can have payloads to run and interact with devices
2019-11-08T23:32:45 < aandrew> the ntp and payloads make it sound "heavy" in terms of processing
2019-11-08T23:32:50 < aandrew> where is it getting connectivity from
2019-11-08T23:33:01 < kakipr0> it has 10/100
2019-11-08T23:33:08 < kakipr0> also uarts
2019-11-08T23:35:07 < kakipr0> in simpliest form it doesn't interact
2019-11-08T23:35:12 < qyx> zyp: yeah I decided to start simple too, I wired 5V, usb, i2c and can on the backplane, want to make master first (probably atmel som) and a convert one from my slaves
2019-11-08T23:35:23 < qyx> x1 only, x4 is future
2019-11-08T23:35:43 < kakipr0> we have 2 partially aligned project me and qyx
2019-11-08T23:36:04 < qyx> I talked to zyp about it
2019-11-08T23:39:00 < qyx> zyp: my power idea was 5V on the backplane, any board can feed/draw, feeding through power-or controler/diode/whatever only
2019-11-08T23:39:13 < qyx> basically the same idea
2019-11-08T23:39:41 < qyx> higher voltage (24V) bus, feed/draw too, motherboard can contain dc/dc to power the 5V rail
2019-11-08T23:39:52 < qyx> or basically any other board too
2019-11-08T23:40:59 < qyx> the main requirement it to avoid unneccessary dependencies and allow easy future expansion
2019-11-08T23:41:26 < kakipr0> I will have most likelly variable voltage rail
2019-11-08T23:46:46 < zyp> I figure input rail should be able to do 5-24, motherboard will generate regulated 5V from that, and plugin boards can choose which to use
2019-11-08T23:47:44 < qyx> I had an idea regarding this
2019-11-08T23:48:00 < zyp> most stuff is probably not gonna touch the input rail, unless they need a lot of power or wanna feed it
2019-11-08T23:48:07 < qyx> imagine a setup I have in the field
2019-11-08T23:48:22 < qyx> pv panel, liion accu
2019-11-08T23:48:49 < qyx> it would be doable in multiple boards - accu slave board with batteries included or batteries attaged using wires
2019-11-08T23:48:59 < qyx> and a mppt controller with connector for the PV
2019-11-08T23:49:34 < qyx> I was trying to settle on a way of making the regulation possible in this case
2019-11-08T23:50:09 < qyx> one option is to simply feed PV voltage directly to the input rail, battery slave would do mppt charging and also feed the 5V rail
2019-11-08T23:50:18 < qyx> the other option is to split it into two
2019-11-08T23:51:05 < qyx> connect PV to the MPPT charger which would feed the gathered energy into the input rail
2019-11-08T23:51:58 < qyx> and the battery slave would charge the accu if there is a surplus energy available (<- this is the catch)
2019-11-08T23:52:43 < qyx> but yes, you are right, the other stuff may not even touch the 5V rail
2019-11-08T23:58:47 < zyp> I'm still targetting smaller stuff than you :)
2019-11-08T23:59:25 < qyx> physically smaller?
--- Day changed Sat Nov 09 2019
2019-11-09T00:00:45 < qyx> you mean smaller than this? https://i.imgur.com/sJUvmkr.png
2019-11-09T00:01:29 < zyp> my primary goal is to make something I can put in the low voltage section of my distribution board downstairs, that I can feed with PoE and hook up to RS485 and m-bus to monitor stuff
2019-11-09T00:02:03 < zyp> yeah, 70mm is quite tall
2019-11-09T00:02:18 < qyx> oh you want it rotated?
2019-11-09T00:02:35 < zyp> I mean, it's a question of how you look at it
2019-11-09T00:03:07 < zyp> I picture a motherboard sitting flat in the bottom of an enclosure with other boards sticking up from it
2019-11-09T00:03:27 < zyp> and connector along one side, not in the top, similar to how normal pcie cards look
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2019-11-09T00:04:11 < aandrew> i2c is not a great thing to use. so many ways for it to get fucked up and just not recover
2019-11-09T00:04:16 < zyp> that way I'm not really tied to a given width/height, just need to spec the socket to enclosure wall distance
2019-11-09T00:04:36 < qyx> thats true
2019-11-09T00:04:55 < qyx> this would also limit hotplug possiblities
2019-11-09T00:04:57 < aandrew> hell I'm using a TCA9548 I2C switch with a physical RST# line and even with that I've seen it hang
2019-11-09T00:05:19 < qyx> I was about to use a similar one too
2019-11-09T00:05:21 < aandrew> you may be far better off to use RS485 or CAN for robustness
2019-11-09T00:05:39 < aandrew> it blew me away that the TCA9548 could get into a state where RST# didn't allow it to recover
2019-11-09T00:05:42 < qyx> yeah I have i2c, can, ethernet, usb
2019-11-09T00:05:54 < qyx> interesting
2019-11-09T00:07:02 < aandrew> https://i.imgur.com/XlPTedK.jpg
2019-11-09T00:07:29 < zyp> I'm not really planning to use the i2c, just figure it'd be good to have
2019-11-09T00:08:30 < qyx> I like smbus additions more appealing
2019-11-09T00:08:32 < qyx> timeouts, etc.
2019-11-09T00:09:07 < qyx> also as zyp says, it is free
2019-11-09T00:09:43 < qyx> ok, so at least, we can share schematics \o/
2019-11-09T00:10:17 < qyx> DDR2 socket is exactly 1mm wider than the board depth
2019-11-09T00:10:19 < qyx> unfortunate
2019-11-09T00:10:39 < zyp> yeah, the size of the pi cm is what's always bothered me
2019-11-09T00:11:20 < buZz> there's a pi3 cm now, right?
2019-11-09T00:11:28 < zyp> pi cm3, yes
2019-11-09T00:11:28 < qyx> the same form factor
2019-11-09T00:12:23 < buZz> oo even a cm3+ now with flash? cute
2019-11-09T00:12:49 < qyx> RISC-V 64 AI Module, K210 inside
2019-11-09T00:12:54 < qyx> for 10€
2019-11-09T00:13:31 < qyx> onion omega2S, too many new modules
2019-11-09T00:14:20 < buZz> i have the first or second omega version somewhere in a drawer, unused
2019-11-09T00:14:29 < buZz> was planning to maybe make a piratebox with it
2019-11-09T00:15:20 < Steffanx> Really aandrew ? Even rst didnt work anymore?
2019-11-09T00:15:57 < qyx> cm3-lite is the same price as sama5d27-som1 on mouser
2019-11-09T00:16:28 < Steffanx> Is that a known "feature" aandrew ?
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2019-11-09T00:21:34 < kakipr0> what is cm3-lite?
2019-11-09T00:21:44 < zyp> cm3 without emmc
2019-11-09T00:22:56 < kakipr0> oh i see
2019-11-09T00:25:05 < kakipr0> https://drive.google.com/file/d/1soshgCiKHTJ3XGmVAVn4kIlrJFVnQqwC/view?usp=sharing
2019-11-09T00:25:14 < kakipr0> this is what I have done
2019-11-09T00:28:19 < zyp> haha, a switch to turn off the ethernet leds? wtf?
2019-11-09T00:29:05 < kakipr0> yes
2019-11-09T00:29:54 < qyx> also, resistor ladder to set contrast
2019-11-09T00:29:58 < kakipr0> yes
2019-11-09T00:30:19 < kakipr0> now I need to figure how to set backlight brightness
2019-11-09T00:30:32 < kakipr0> with 3excess BSR outputs
2019-11-09T00:30:40 < kakipr0> zyp: it
2019-11-09T00:30:44 < kakipr0> s 50mW per led
2019-11-09T00:31:11 < kakipr0> it's like pissing electrons away while nobody is looking at it
2019-11-09T00:31:17 < qyx> I am using a single bss123, 47R resistor and a pwm output
2019-11-09T00:31:27 < qyx> how much?
2019-11-09T00:31:36 < qyx> 50mW?
2019-11-09T00:31:40 < qyx> are you using leds from 1990?
2019-11-09T00:31:49 < kakipr0> sorry
2019-11-09T00:31:54 < kakipr0> 30mW
2019-11-09T00:32:11 < qyx> 1-2mA should be enough for any current indicator LED
2019-11-09T00:32:11 < kakipr0> 10mA * 3.3V
2019-11-09T00:32:36 < kakipr0> maybe
2019-11-09T00:32:51 < qyx> and I am pretty sure they can be disabled wia mgmt interface
2019-11-09T00:32:52 < qyx> via
2019-11-09T00:32:56 < zyp> kakipr0, did you see LEDCR? you can turn off the led output in the PHY
2019-11-09T00:33:20 < zyp> at least LED_0, I figure there's another register that controls LED_1 too
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2019-11-09T00:33:31 < kakipr0> yes zyp
2019-11-09T00:33:47 < kakipr0> but
2019-11-09T00:34:06 < kakipr0> I will have centralized led control signals
2019-11-09T00:34:12 < kakipr0> that I can PWM etc.
2019-11-09T00:34:47 < kakipr0> have nice fadeouts
2019-11-09T00:34:48 < zyp> sounds like adding stupid complexity
2019-11-09T00:35:27 < kakipr0> sure
2019-11-09T00:35:39 < Steffanx> Lol
2019-11-09T00:36:12 < zyp> your engineering is weird, you save money on going with f107, and then you blow it all on dumb shit instead
2019-11-09T00:37:27 < kakipr0> it will add just a couple fets
2019-11-09T00:37:32 < kakipr0> and passives
2019-11-09T00:37:46 < qyx> any 3 pin shielded rugged small connector for balanced signals (except metric and mini-xlr)?
2019-11-09T00:38:00 < qyx> and assembly cost
2019-11-09T00:38:20 < zyp> what sort of signal?
2019-11-09T00:38:21 < kakipr0> pcb?
2019-11-09T00:38:26 < kakipr0> wire connect?
2019-11-09T00:39:23 < Steffanx> Doesnt the f107 have a DAC kakipr0 ?
2019-11-09T00:39:39 < qyx> diff analog + ground/shield, 1Vpp, DC-10k, panel mounted
2019-11-09T00:39:41 < kakipr0> I'll save it for now
2019-11-09T00:39:56 < qyx> NI uses such things https://www.tme.eu/sk/details/mxlr-3w-c/konektory-mini-xlr/ninigi/
2019-11-09T00:40:57 < qyx> if there was a NINIGI LEMO
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2019-11-09T00:44:19 < zyp> kakipr0, also why shift register when you have a ton of free pins on the mcu?
2019-11-09T00:44:42 < kakipr0> do you see the application yet on schematic zyp?
2019-11-09T00:44:51 < zyp> for the 5V translation?
2019-11-09T00:44:56 < kakipr0> these are just facilities
2019-11-09T00:45:03 < kakipr0> conns
2019-11-09T00:45:25 < kakipr0> all the energy stuff requires IO
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2019-11-09T00:50:25 < kakipr0> waitaminute
2019-11-09T00:51:02 < kakipr0> why I have a fet in there
2019-11-09T00:51:35 < kakipr0> if I'm doing centralized stuff and everything works in VDDIO
2019-11-09T00:51:43 < kakipr0> I need one fet
2019-11-09T00:52:09 < kakipr0> for the whole led light show
2019-11-09T00:53:01 < kakipr0> thanks zyp
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2019-11-09T00:55:30 < kakipr0> oh now I understand
2019-11-09T00:56:02 < kakipr0> I don't want to power up eth VDDIO via leds
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2019-11-09T01:38:33 < kakipr0> I might want a beeper
2019-11-09T01:39:44 < kakipr0> like audible locator signal
2019-11-09T01:56:25 < kakipr0> maybe use those DAC pins
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2019-11-09T02:44:35 < kakipr0> lurencer
2019-11-09T02:44:57 < kakipr0> sup m8
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2019-11-09T02:59:23 < Laurenceb_> New Orleans two point zero
2019-11-09T03:00:31 < Laurenceb_> must resist temptation to attack flood defences with a pick axe
2019-11-09T03:00:49 < Laurenceb_> the river is about 2m higher than the city center atm
2019-11-09T03:01:12 < kakipr0> are you in muricas?
2019-11-09T03:02:20 < Laurenceb_> no bongland
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2019-11-09T03:20:27 < bitmask> crap its cold already, I need to finish this jacket
2019-11-09T03:21:09 < BrainDamage> how much autonomy does your battery have?
2019-11-09T03:24:41 < bitmask> none
2019-11-09T03:25:41 < jadew> it's solar powered
2019-11-09T03:26:00 < jadew> only works when it's hot outside
2019-11-09T03:28:47 < kakipr0> 100% guarantee to work at 25C ambient
2019-11-09T03:30:22 < jadew> I need an A3 printer
2019-11-09T03:31:35 < jadew> I keep trying to fit all my schematics on A4 sheets
2019-11-09T03:32:45 < kakipr0> I don't
2019-11-09T03:33:17 < jadew> you make a big one or multiple ones?
2019-11-09T03:33:19 < BrainDamage> get an ancient parallel port plotter
2019-11-09T03:35:09 < jadew> no room for it
2019-11-09T03:35:29 < jadew> I need one that occupies as much space as my current A4 printer/scanner
2019-11-09T03:35:48 < jadew> which btw, it's great, I recommend it
2019-11-09T03:36:12 < jadew> brother MFC-L2710DN
2019-11-09T03:36:30 < jadew> well priced too
2019-11-09T03:37:55 < BrainDamage> how exactly can you print a larger surface without using a larger device?
2019-11-09T03:38:02 < BrainDamage> your soly option is tiling
2019-11-09T03:38:15 < jadew> well, this one is pretty big
2019-11-09T03:38:30 < jadew> there are some printers that are only slightly larger and they can print A3
2019-11-09T03:39:40 < jadew> if the output slot would be ~4 cm bigger on this one, it could fit A3 pages
2019-11-09T03:42:37 < zyp> are there any cheap decent A3 printers on the market though?
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2019-11-09T03:43:48 < zyp> A3 is pretty much the only thing my new printer doesn't do, figured it wouldn't be worth paying several times more for something that wouldn't be used often
2019-11-09T03:43:55 < jadew> I think I saw one, but it was right after I got this one and decided to ignore it, because it was pissing me off
2019-11-09T03:44:01 < kakipr0> null>
2019-11-09T03:44:39 < jadew> zyp, yeah, I figured the same
2019-11-09T03:44:45 < jadew> which printer do you have?
2019-11-09T03:45:35 < zyp> xerox workcentre 6515DNI
2019-11-09T03:45:56 < jadew> looks heavy duty
2019-11-09T03:46:48 < jadew> does it scan front and back?
2019-11-09T03:47:02 < zyp> yeah, has both duplex scanning and duplex printing
2019-11-09T03:47:08 < jadew> neat
2019-11-09T03:47:21 < jadew> mine doesn't do duplex scanning
2019-11-09T03:47:24 < zyp> I picked it up when it was at a 33% discount, so it only cost 2000 NOK
2019-11-09T03:47:32 < jadew> it can scan from the feeder tho, which is great
2019-11-09T03:47:32 < zyp> plus 800 NOK for shipping :p
2019-11-09T03:47:45 < jadew> but you have to put them back in to scan the back
2019-11-09T03:48:12 < jadew> neat, that's a good deal
2019-11-09T03:48:21 < zyp> yeah
2019-11-09T03:48:32 < zyp> I had my eye on it for a while
2019-11-09T03:48:33 < jadew> I wouldn't have gotten it tho, even if I found it at that price - I have very limited space
2019-11-09T03:48:50 < zyp> is it that much bigger than yours?
2019-11-09T03:49:04 < jadew> it seems taller for one
2019-11-09T03:49:34 < jadew> I keep mine on the floor, under a bench
2019-11-09T03:49:36 < zyp> oh, yours doesn't do color?
2019-11-09T03:49:44 < jadew> no, it's just bw
2019-11-09T03:49:47 < zyp> ah
2019-11-09T03:49:49 < jadew> yours doees color too?
2019-11-09T03:49:55 < zyp> yes
2019-11-09T03:49:57 < jadew> laser?
2019-11-09T03:50:00 < zyp> of course
2019-11-09T03:50:03 < jadew> jeez
2019-11-09T03:50:11 < jadew> then that was an amazing deal
2019-11-09T03:50:15 < zyp> I bought it to replace my aging hp clj 1600
2019-11-09T03:51:10 < jadew> hmm, seeing some pictures of it, it doesn't seem that big either
2019-11-09T03:51:16 < zyp> so my criteria was I wanted color laser, of the decent kind, not the kind that does one by one color
2019-11-09T03:51:33 < zyp> and I also wanted a scanner
2019-11-09T03:51:49 < zyp> and I wanted the whole thing networked and scan to pdf that gets emailed
2019-11-09T03:51:56 < zyp> because fuck fucking around with scanner software
2019-11-09T03:51:59 < jadew> I didn't care about the color thing, I just wanted laser printer + scanner, in order to get rid of one device
2019-11-09T03:52:44 < jadew> you mean you get your scans by e-mail?
2019-11-09T03:52:49 < zyp> I didn't have a scanner before and I got tired of taking photos of documents
2019-11-09T03:52:51 < zyp> yeah
2019-11-09T03:52:55 < jadew> heh
2019-11-09T03:53:06 < zyp> all the expensive MFPs do that
2019-11-09T03:53:07 < jadew> I had an older inkjet printer with a scanner
2019-11-09T03:53:12 < jadew> and was using that one's scanner
2019-11-09T03:53:33 < jadew> I just hit scan on mine and it starts scanning on the PC
2019-11-09T03:53:40 < zyp> this thing has a fax modem also
2019-11-09T03:53:44 < jadew> with my scanning software of choice
2019-11-09T03:53:47 < jadew> yeah, this one too
2019-11-09T03:53:52 < zyp> that's never gonna get used :p
2019-11-09T03:54:19 < zyp> what do you mean scanning software of choice?
2019-11-09T03:54:31 < BrainDamage> I setup mine to drop the pdf on my nas
2019-11-09T03:54:44 < BrainDamage> and once it's there, ocr is run automatically
2019-11-09T03:55:01 < jadew> I don't remember how I did it, but when I hit scan, my scanning program turns on and does the scan
2019-11-09T03:55:09 < jadew> I'm using naps2
2019-11-09T03:55:23 < zyp> BrainDamage, yeah, this thing can do that too, but meh
2019-11-09T03:55:24 < jadew> so I don't have to deal with the printer's software
2019-11-09T03:55:50 < zyp> I also scan company mail sometimes
2019-11-09T03:55:55 < jadew> I'll have to check this one's options, it has a bunch of stuff for "Scan to:"
2019-11-09T03:56:04 < Laurenceb_> wew
2019-11-09T03:56:08 < BrainDamage> most of the time I scan something is for archival reason, rather than direct usage
2019-11-09T03:56:15 < Laurenceb_> eastern flood wall just broke
2019-11-09T03:56:19 < BrainDamage> so i don't need direct interaction
2019-11-09T03:56:23 < zyp> my boss lives in .dk (and works from home), so whenever there's some shit for him in the company mailbox I just throw it in the scanner and have it email him directly
2019-11-09T03:56:27 < Laurenceb_> nothing of value was lost...
2019-11-09T03:56:56 < Laurenceb_> sheeet Boris Johnson is here
2019-11-09T03:57:26 < Laurenceb_> looks like he is staying West of the river
2019-11-09T03:57:49 < zyp> BrainDamage, you have a point, I've been thinking about doing the same for archival, actually
2019-11-09T03:58:03 < zyp> just haven't bothered
2019-11-09T03:58:20 < jadew> looks like this one has Scan for Email
2019-11-09T03:58:24 < jadew> but I'm not sure how to use it
2019-11-09T03:58:41 < zyp> I don't really have a lot of papers that are worth archiving
2019-11-09T03:58:51 < jadew> I archive everything
2019-11-09T03:58:58 < zyp> everything what?
2019-11-09T03:59:01 < BrainDamage> Laurenceb_: http://media.gettyimages.com/photos/inflatable-flotation-ring-in-swimming-pool-picture-id78461729?k=6&m=78461729&s=170667a&w=0&h=jzWdTgqPUFC63cdA1Xue0aeSZWtdqPfzIqegZrkaQic=
2019-11-09T03:59:03 < jadew> everything company related
2019-11-09T03:59:12 < jadew> invoices, payments, shipping wavers, everything
2019-11-09T03:59:26 < kakinull> moevie recommod?
2019-11-09T03:59:28 < zyp> I don't even have that on paper in the first place
2019-11-09T03:59:29 < jadew> even when I receive something, I take a photo of the package
2019-11-09T03:59:58 < Laurenceb_> BrainDamage: kek I may need it soon
2019-11-09T04:00:04 < jadew> kakinull, if you find something, let me know
2019-11-09T04:00:05 < zyp> all company invoices and shit are digital, they get archived in my accounting system
2019-11-09T04:00:07 < jadew> I want to see a movie too
2019-11-09T04:00:07 < kakinull> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ogEaNfTOc2k
2019-11-09T04:00:19 < jadew> zyp, yeah, but I mean the ones I'm getting from other companies
2019-11-09T04:00:21 < Laurenceb_> 2 dead so far aiui
2019-11-09T04:00:31 < zyp> jadew, yeah, that's what I mean
2019-11-09T04:01:05 < zyp> like, I order something from digikey, they email me invoice pdf, I stick the pdf into the accounting system, attached to the expense record
2019-11-09T04:01:10 < jadew> that's odd, I still get lots of invoices on paper
2019-11-09T04:01:20 < BrainDamage> my country just mandated digital invoices, it's fantastic
2019-11-09T04:01:29 < kakinull> jadew: is it warm there?
2019-11-09T04:01:34 < Laurenceb_> saw someone stuck on the top of a BMW SUV earlier, people were lolling at them
2019-11-09T04:01:35 < jadew> kakinull, yes
2019-11-09T04:01:43 < kakinull> how wwarm?
2019-11-09T04:02:02 < jadew> kakinull, I think there were 23 °C about 2 days ago
2019-11-09T04:02:10 < kakinull> wtf
2019-11-09T04:02:10 < jadew> I don't know what it was like today tho, didn't leave the house
2019-11-09T04:02:16 < zyp> I'm not sure my company has ever received an invoice on paper
2019-11-09T04:02:28 < kakinull> there was about -20 few days ago
2019-11-09T04:02:35 < zyp> not sent any either
2019-11-09T04:02:37 < jadew> zyp, I'm getting them from various online orders too
2019-11-09T04:02:44 < jadew> (the paper ones)
2019-11-09T04:02:50 < zyp> weird
2019-11-09T04:02:53 < jadew> they don't provide them on the website and you find it in the box
2019-11-09T04:02:58 < BrainDamage> I've got some paper invoices from german companies
2019-11-09T04:03:05 < zyp> oh, wait
2019-11-09T04:03:14 < jadew> kakinull, heh
2019-11-09T04:03:23 < jadew> it was really cold, then it got hot
2019-11-09T04:03:32 < kakinull> weird
2019-11-09T04:03:32 < jadew> on that day, I went out in a t-shirt and it was amazing
2019-11-09T04:03:40 < zyp> when I think about it, I actually get a paper copy of the invoice from the mail company
2019-11-09T04:03:49 < jadew> everyone else was wearing winter coats
2019-11-09T04:03:59 < jadew> it was hilarious
2019-11-09T04:04:15 < zyp> I usually throw that right in the shredder without even opening it, it's just a copy of the one I already got on mail
2019-11-09T04:04:25 < zyp> email*
2019-11-09T04:04:35 < zyp> also, I haven't received those recently
2019-11-09T04:04:41 < jadew> yeah, I also send paper invoices with my products
2019-11-09T04:04:55 < zyp> I haven't bothered updating my address with them since I moved, so I guess they are still sending them to my old address
2019-11-09T04:04:56 < jadew> I actually have to provide like 3 copies for the shipping company
2019-11-09T04:05:25 < BrainDamage> now I imagine a giant pile of letters on top of your old mailbox
2019-11-09T04:05:45 < zyp> well, I brought my mailbox with me when I moved, so idk
2019-11-09T04:06:19 < zyp> probably goes in one of the other mailboxes
2019-11-09T04:06:58 < zyp> speaking of, place I used to live had a completely fucked up adressing scheme
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2019-11-09T04:07:39 < zyp> one building, four units behind one common entrance
2019-11-09T04:07:50 < zyp> building had street addresses 4A and 4B
2019-11-09T04:08:04 < zyp> no C or D
2019-11-09T04:09:09 < zyp> that was fun when I were ordering internet
2019-11-09T04:09:44 < jadew> I can't even write my address on some online forms
2019-11-09T04:09:48 < jadew> because it has a + in it
2019-11-09T04:09:59 < jadew> they merged two buildings and they're now A+B
2019-11-09T04:10:02 < doomba> jadew: portals
2019-11-09T04:10:08 < kakinull> just AB
2019-11-09T04:10:11 < kakinull> then
2019-11-09T04:10:18 < zyp> «I want internet to 4B» «Uh, there's already an active line to 4B, customer's name is …» «Yeah, that's my upstairs neighbor.»
2019-11-09T04:10:45 < zyp> «Uh, okay.»
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2019-11-09T04:10:57 < jadew> doomba, imdb says 2.9 :/
2019-11-09T04:11:20 < jadew> zyp: "Then I just need another cable."
2019-11-09T04:11:24 < zyp> «There's already a fiber outlet on the wall here.» «Okay, I'm gonna need to send a guy to come figure out what's going on.»
2019-11-09T04:12:15 < zyp> also, power company didn't give a fuck and apparently decided they wanted to call my unit 4D, even though that doesn't exist in any other system
2019-11-09T04:12:50 < doomba> jadew: trust the bots that game the imdb ratings. trust bill and elon to save us all.
2019-11-09T04:13:14 < jadew> doomba, I only doubt imdb when the rating is above 6
2019-11-09T04:13:40 < jadew> that movie has only 255 ratings
2019-11-09T04:13:45 < zyp> apparently the thing is that the building was technically a two-unit house, thus A and B
2019-11-09T04:14:25 < zyp> and then there's two additional rental unit, that each belonged to the two main units, and they didn't get their own letters
2019-11-09T04:14:35 < zyp> so left side of house was A, right side was B
2019-11-09T04:14:58 < zyp> which means that the formal address of my unit was 4B U0102
2019-11-09T04:15:56 < zyp> the latter being the formal way of saying «first floor, second door»
2019-11-09T04:16:14 < zyp> but of course there's no 4B U0101, because that unit is 4A U0101
2019-11-09T04:16:30 < zyp> so it's redundant as well
2019-11-09T04:17:57 < jadew> I used to live once in a building that was situated on a big street, but somehow ended up as being on the small street in the back of the building
2019-11-09T04:18:02 < jadew> that was always fun to explain
2019-11-09T04:18:34 < jadew> the address of the building was that of the tiny street behind it
2019-11-09T04:18:44 < zyp> heh
2019-11-09T04:18:53 < jadew> couriers were going insane because they weren't able to find it
2019-11-09T04:18:55 < zyp> hmm
2019-11-09T04:19:44 < zyp> there's a house behind the hill here, that had their driveway connected to the main road below the hill
2019-11-09T04:20:43 < zyp> now they're gonna improve the main road since new housing areas will add more traffic to it, so they're removing that house's connection
2019-11-09T04:21:08 < zyp> and building a new connection to the area I live in, which is all just one street
2019-11-09T04:21:23 < zyp> I wonder if they're gonna get assigned a new street number
2019-11-09T04:21:38 < zyp> speaking of, numbering here is also weird
2019-11-09T04:21:52 < zyp> I live in 116, directly across the road is number 78
2019-11-09T04:22:39 < jadew> haha
2019-11-09T04:22:45 < jadew> that makes no senes
2019-11-09T04:22:48 < jadew> *sense
2019-11-09T04:22:55 < zyp> well, it kinda does
2019-11-09T04:23:00 < jadew> you'd expect it to at least be odd
2019-11-09T04:23:13 < zyp> they put all the odd numbers of the left side of the main road and the even numbers on the right side
2019-11-09T04:23:15 < BrainDamage> are you in a cul-de-sac?
2019-11-09T04:23:28 < zyp> no, but they treated it as if it were
2019-11-09T04:23:57 < zyp> so they went down this branch counting up until they hit the point where it loops back to the main road, then went back along the other side
2019-11-09T04:24:19 < kakinull> is there any way that program could know it's being run on debugger?
2019-11-09T04:25:01 < kakinull> I'm meaning ELF or PE binary
2019-11-09T04:25:02 < zyp> https://bin.jvnv.net/file/sG2S4.png <- area looks like this
2019-11-09T04:25:26 < kakinull> nice
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2019-11-09T04:27:20 < zyp> Støleveien 61 is the house that's losing their road down to Støleveien
2019-11-09T04:28:10 < zyp> they'll be connecting between 56 and 58
2019-11-09T04:28:33 < zyp> but there's no available number there, so I guess it'll be fucked up no matter what they do :p
2019-11-09T04:28:38 < jadew> that house is really nicely positioned there
2019-11-09T04:29:08 < zyp> it's probably a lot older than the Kjæråsen area
2019-11-09T04:29:44 < jadew> the whole area looks beautiful
2019-11-09T04:29:48 < zyp> the Kjæråsen area was just a forest ten years ago, it's all new houses
2019-11-09T04:30:13 < jadew> do you get mosquitoes?
2019-11-09T04:30:24 < jadew> (because of the nearby water)
2019-11-09T04:30:48 < zyp> good question, I can't remember having seen many this year
2019-11-09T04:32:41 < zyp> 2012: https://bin.jvnv.net/file/2tig6.png
2019-11-09T04:32:44 < zyp> 2018: https://bin.jvnv.net/file/3CFvH.png
2019-11-09T04:33:31 < jadew> neat, looks like a really good place to live
2019-11-09T04:34:16 < jadew> the only reason we're still hanging on to the city is because in here it's difficult to find good schools
2019-11-09T04:34:19 < zyp> yeah
2019-11-09T04:34:33 < jadew> especially in small towns
2019-11-09T04:34:49 < zyp> I mean, this is only five minutes or so from the city center
2019-11-09T04:34:52 < zyp> idk, maybe 10
2019-11-09T04:35:07 < jadew> I noticed
2019-11-09T04:35:24 < jadew> looks like a small city, so no traffic nonsense either
2019-11-09T04:35:58 < zyp> yeah, it's perfect size, small enough that it doesn't get inconvenient to have a car
2019-11-09T04:37:31 < jadew> there's so much room there
2019-11-09T04:38:12 < jadew> at one point we were considering getting a house here: https://www.google.com/maps/@44.3767318,26.1532962,1604m/data=!3m1!1e3
2019-11-09T04:38:28 < zyp> it's also great to live in a new area, it attracts people around the same age group, i.e. familes getting established
2019-11-09T04:38:55 < zyp> so my kid will probably have a ton of potential friends around here when she grows up
2019-11-09T04:38:59 < jadew> zyp, yeah, I realized that's why I had so many friends growing up
2019-11-09T04:40:38 < jadew> compared to what you have there, this is absolutely sad: https://www.google.com/maps/@44.4353956,26.1200263,794m/data=!3m1!1e3
2019-11-09T04:40:55 < zyp> yeah
2019-11-09T04:43:07 < zyp> on the other hand, I grew up here: https://www.google.com/maps/@69.3012467,16.0532357,1129m/data=!3m1!1e3
2019-11-09T04:43:30 < jadew> that looks awesome
2019-11-09T04:44:00 < zyp> as a kid, sure
2019-11-09T04:44:14 < zyp> as an adult, it's pretty fucking inconvenient and far away from everything :)
2019-11-09T04:44:46 < jadew> do you have an accent?
2019-11-09T04:44:56 < jadew> for the area you're in now
2019-11-09T04:45:11 < zyp> dialect, you mean?
2019-11-09T04:45:31 < jadew> people in here, from different parts of the country have different accents
2019-11-09T04:45:35 < zyp> yeah, I speak with a very obvious northern dialect, so I often get asked where I'm from
2019-11-09T04:45:42 < jadew> hah
2019-11-09T04:46:09 < zyp> but I mean, people move all over the country
2019-11-09T04:46:22 < jadew> in here everyone moves to Bucharest
2019-11-09T04:46:31 < jadew> which is why the city has become unbearable
2019-11-09T04:46:39 < zyp> well, yeah, I guess you could say everyone moves to Oslo
2019-11-09T04:46:41 < jadew> and it's impossible to find a good house at a decent price
2019-11-09T04:47:02 < zyp> one of my friends bought an apartment in Oslo earlier this year
2019-11-09T04:47:22 < zyp> paid around the same amount I paid for my house
2019-11-09T04:47:38 < zyp> for a small apartment with one bedroom
2019-11-09T04:47:38 < jadew> yeah, that's how it goes here too
2019-11-09T04:47:54 < jadew> probably different prices, but similar situation
2019-11-09T04:48:03 < zyp> yeah
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2019-11-09T04:48:53 < zyp> could probably get a pretty big house up in my parents town for much less
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2019-11-09T04:49:41 < jadew> in the past couple of years I've been eating through my savings, so if I want to get a nice house, I have to start producing again
2019-11-09T04:50:06 < zyp> https://www.finn.no/realestate/homes/ad.html?finnkode=159125644 <- some old shit for 700k
2019-11-09T04:50:25 < jadew> lol
2019-11-09T04:50:31 < jadew> 700k EUR?
2019-11-09T04:50:35 < zyp> NOK
2019-11-09T04:50:38 < zyp> so 70k EUR
2019-11-09T04:50:40 < jadew> ah
2019-11-09T04:50:57 < zyp> I paid 600k NOK for the piece of land here
2019-11-09T04:51:22 < jadew> how much land?
2019-11-09T04:51:33 < zyp> less :)
2019-11-09T04:51:55 < jadew> you'd pay that for about 300 to 500 sqm in that area I linked first
2019-11-09T04:52:04 < zyp> IIRC I own 6m in front of my house, 3m on one side and 4m behind the house
2019-11-09T04:52:21 < zyp> I think it's around 270m2 total
2019-11-09T04:53:02 < jadew> more expensive than here
2019-11-09T04:54:11 < zyp> makes enough sense
2019-11-09T04:54:20 < jadew> yeah
2019-11-09T04:54:25 < zyp> land is worth as much as people are willing to pay for it
2019-11-09T04:54:38 < zyp> the more money people have, the more expensive it gets :)
2019-11-09T04:56:03 < zyp> oh well, it's getting late
2019-11-09T04:56:06 < jadew> Norway looks really nice
2019-11-09T04:56:17 < zyp> you should come visit some time
2019-11-09T04:57:15 < jadew> not a bad idea at all
2019-11-09T04:57:31 < jadew> we've been having trouble finding new destinations lately
2019-11-09T04:57:38 < jadew> and we've never been in the north
2019-11-09T04:58:17 < jadew> there's lots to see on the way too
2019-11-09T04:59:36 < jadew> my parents in law went to Finland last year I think and they liked it very much
2019-11-09T05:24:03 < kakinull> which time of year?
2019-11-09T05:24:20 < jadew> I don't remember
2019-11-09T05:24:46 < jadew> kakinull, if you want to see a tv show, I like Plebs
2019-11-09T05:25:03 < kakinull> should we sleep?
2019-11-09T05:25:49 < jadew> I have work to do
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2019-11-09T08:16:12 < upgrdman> any vm pros in here? i got os x running in vmware cuckstation, but theres no opengl acceleration. googling implies it's not possible with os x. anyone got ideas if a windows user needs to test some graphics shit on os x?
2019-11-09T08:16:43 < upgrdman> i don't suppose theres something like a VPS service, but with like VNC access to an os x box?
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2019-11-09T08:50:26 < BrainDamage> for the first, it's extremely unlikely to be possible since apple license forbids it, so no company can make it so it'd have to be user hack, on top of that osx is deprecating opengl
2019-11-09T08:55:04 < dongs> upgrdman: yeah just get your nigger employer to buy you a fagmini or something
2019-11-09T08:55:10 < dongs> osx in emulation has sucked dick for a while now
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2019-11-09T09:15:09 < upgrdman> k
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2019-11-09T09:46:01 < Posterdati> hi
2019-11-09T09:49:06 < Posterdati> please help, I downloaded the std peripherals library 1.8.0 for stm32f4xx-discovery (stm32f407xxx), I'm trying to compile a simple blinky program using this library and gcc on linux, but I've got a lot of errors in stm32f4xx_rcc.c from the library itself. I did set -DSTM32F40_41xxx in the Makefile, any hints? Thanks!
2019-11-09T09:50:08 < Posterdati> Previously I did work on stm32f3 with no issue, using ST standard periph. and drivers, I used the same scheme for the stm32f4xx...
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2019-11-09T14:50:50 < Mangy_Dog> Ive now made Part 1 of my retro handheld development video live. https://youtu.be/oKETolL7fOQ  Part 2 hopefully will be out in a couple of weeks...
2019-11-09T14:55:48 < Steffanx> Such youtube voice you have Mangy_Dog :P
2019-11-09T14:57:03 < Mangy_Dog> i hate my voice D:
2019-11-09T14:57:16 < Mangy_Dog> im terrible at recording voice overs
2019-11-09T14:57:25 < Mangy_Dog> is tutter all the time and fudge up lines
2019-11-09T14:57:47 < Mangy_Dog> if you listen carefully its painfully clear that theres tons and tons of edits and rerecordings
2019-11-09T15:01:55 < Steffanx> that guy you're talking about was N2. Mangy_Dog
2019-11-09T15:01:56 < Steffanx> ?
2019-11-09T15:02:01 < kakipr0> you did that all yourself Mangy_Dog?
2019-11-09T15:02:18 < PaulFertser> Mangy_Dog: s/INSPERATIONAL/INSPIRATIONAL/ ?
2019-11-09T15:02:27 < Mangy_Dog> yeah n2 
2019-11-09T15:04:02 < Mangy_Dog> and yeah did it all myself
2019-11-09T15:04:08 < Mangy_Dog> though didnt make the orange pi :p
2019-11-09T15:04:16 < Mangy_Dog> PaulFertser?
2019-11-09T15:04:34 < PaulFertser> Mangy_Dog: is that a typo?
2019-11-09T15:04:39 < Mangy_Dog> where?
2019-11-09T15:04:49 < Mangy_Dog> oh the promo
2019-11-09T15:04:53 < Mangy_Dog> i dont know
2019-11-09T15:05:08 < Mangy_Dog> i did spell check the text and i am dyslexic so maybe it slipped through
2019-11-09T15:08:30 < kakipr0> nice renderings Mangy_Dog
2019-11-09T15:09:14 < Mangy_Dog> thanks
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2019-11-09T15:12:01 < PaulFertser> Nice everything in that video! Amazing work.
2019-11-09T15:12:54 < BrainDamage> the production quality is pretty good
2019-11-09T15:12:55 < Mangy_Dog> thankies
2019-11-09T15:13:08 < Mangy_Dog> id say its passable :p
2019-11-09T15:14:34 < BrainDamage> I didn't see, do you have a rumble system on the platform?
2019-11-09T15:14:42 < Mangy_Dog> na
2019-11-09T15:14:55 < Mangy_Dog> also nearly NO retro games had rumble
2019-11-09T15:14:58 < Mangy_Dog> though vita does
2019-11-09T15:15:10 < BrainDamage> ps1 have rumble
2019-11-09T15:15:19 < Mangy_Dog> but not sure if ppsspp has an api for it that talks back to game controllers
2019-11-09T15:15:36 < BrainDamage> do you know retroarch?
2019-11-09T15:15:41 < Mangy_Dog> and also im not sure the generic controller portion of the library i was using has rumble feature... though it might be possible to add it
2019-11-09T15:15:51 < BrainDamage> it provides a standard interface for emulators, etc
2019-11-09T15:16:04 < Mangy_Dog> the system runs on retropi
2019-11-09T15:16:08 < Mangy_Dog> that has retroarch
2019-11-09T15:20:12 < Steffanx> You do video stuff for a living Mangy_Dog?
2019-11-09T15:22:02 < Mangy_Dog> i used to bea  motion graphics artist and visual effects artist in another live
2019-11-09T15:22:04 < Mangy_Dog> life
2019-11-09T15:22:29 < Mangy_Dog> but i had a massive breakdown and everything went tits up for me
2019-11-09T15:22:45 < Mangy_Dog> so ive been sort of rebuilding since
2019-11-09T15:23:59 < Steffanx> whokay. :S
2019-11-09T15:25:25 < Mangy_Dog> sorry
2019-11-09T15:26:35 < Steffanx> lol, why sorry :P
2019-11-09T15:27:17 < Mangy_Dog> i shouldnt drop bomjbshells like that :p 
2019-11-09T15:31:01 < Steffanx> its not a bombshell, its a perfect explanation
2019-11-09T15:32:08 < Mangy_Dog> i guess
2019-11-09T15:34:10 < kakipr0> was there some periph for quadrature input in stm32?
2019-11-09T15:35:09 < Steffanx> timer
2019-11-09T15:35:32 < BrainDamage> quadrature input is just a time delay
2019-11-09T15:35:48 < Steffanx> but im not sure if your f107 has build in support for it.
2019-11-09T15:36:09 < kakipr0> Up to four 16-bit timers, each with up to 4IC/OC/PWM or pulse counter andquadrature (incremental) encoder input
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2019-11-09T15:38:13 < Steffanx> imagine that being what you need kakipr0
2019-11-09T15:39:53 < kakipr0> yes
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2019-11-09T15:54:12 < Cracki> nice tricorder
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2019-11-09T16:02:17 < Mangy_Dog> :>
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2019-11-09T16:04:41 < englishman> hello innovators
2019-11-09T16:06:17 < kakipr0> morgon
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2019-11-09T16:34:38 < kakipr0> how to debounce high side button?
2019-11-09T16:34:45 < kakipr0> just 100n across?
2019-11-09T16:35:24 < kakipr0> electronics101
2019-11-09T16:35:44 < aandrew> yeah 100n to V+
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2019-11-09T16:56:12 < rue_bed> its fair to assume the user cant push the button faster than 10Hz
2019-11-09T16:56:26 < rue_bed> for a low pass filter design
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2019-11-09T16:59:12 < buZz> i just keep doing debounces in software
2019-11-09T17:00:51 < kakipr0> unless asian level button pressing
2019-11-09T17:01:19 < kakipr0> oh 10hz
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2019-11-09T17:01:21 < kakipr0> yeah
2019-11-09T17:01:22 < kakipr0> no
2019-11-09T17:02:42 < kakipr0> but yeas
2019-11-09T17:02:52 < kakipr0> expect 40button presses in second
2019-11-09T17:03:04 < Steffanx> you're a good butten presser.
2019-11-09T17:10:51 < benishor> somebody likes to press his button
2019-11-09T17:14:29 < kakipr0> is there ltspice alternative for lunix
2019-11-09T17:16:26 < srk> ngspice
2019-11-09T17:16:46 < srk> kicad has it integrated afaik
2019-11-09T17:17:01 < srk> you can also run ltspice in wine, work well
2019-11-09T17:17:04 < srk> s
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2019-11-09T17:23:45 < BrainDamage> there's qucs, but it has some annoyances
2019-11-09T17:23:59 < BrainDamage> unlike spice it can simulate RF and digital though
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2019-11-09T17:29:25 < bitmask> noooo, I have to enlarge my pcb by 3mm in both directions, the horror!
2019-11-09T17:29:34 < bitmask> stupid usb ic
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2019-11-09T17:34:20 < specing> xD
2019-11-09T17:34:24 < bitmask> https://i.imgur.com/k5dXKr5.png
2019-11-09T17:34:34 < bitmask> not sure I like the layout of the usb stuff but im getting tired of working on this board
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2019-11-09T17:41:07 < Laurenceb_> Vitamin K!!
2019-11-09T17:42:19 < Steffanx> where is the stm32 bitmask
2019-11-09T17:42:27 < bitmask> next time
2019-11-09T17:42:34 < kakipr0> bitmask are you going crazy with the revision number?
2019-11-09T17:42:49 < bitmask> how is 2.2 crazy
2019-11-09T17:43:50 < kakipr0> I think that would imply there would had been at least few physical iterations
2019-11-09T17:44:12 < bitmask> 1.0 was my previous boards, and I have a couple different versions of this one that I have saved because I decided I didn't like 2.0 at all and 2.1 I wanted to keep saved but changed some things around
2019-11-09T17:44:27 < bitmask> 2.1 is when I had the two smps that you talked me out of :P
2019-11-09T17:44:41 < kakipr0> well then
2019-11-09T17:44:47 < kakipr0> it's okay
2019-11-09T17:44:47 < bitmask> so, not crazy
2019-11-09T17:45:02 < kakipr0> I thought this was the first of the firsts
2019-11-09T17:45:10 < bitmask> nope
2019-11-09T17:45:20 < englishman> kakipr0: there is no replacement for ltspice. ltspice is the best
2019-11-09T17:45:35 < bitmask> first version was lame, it was basically a holder for premade boards/modules
2019-11-09T17:45:47 < kakipr0> at jub I saw once chinaguis doing first proto with 1.0
2019-11-09T17:45:51 < bitmask> with a few smd components
2019-11-09T17:45:53 < kakipr0> second proto with 2.0
2019-11-09T17:46:01 < Steffanx> But those never existed in reality did they?
2019-11-09T17:46:13 < kakipr0> and production version was then labeled 1.0
2019-11-09T17:46:26 < bitmask> Steffanx me? no, only 1.0
2019-11-09T17:46:43 < bitmask> but 2.2 sounds fancy
2019-11-09T17:47:04 < bitmask> kaki, went with a whole new usb chip...
2019-11-09T17:47:14 < kakipr0> emulator or protector?
2019-11-09T17:47:19 < bitmask> both combined
2019-11-09T17:47:33 < bitmask> ucs1003-2
2019-11-09T17:47:35 < kakipr0> tell me about it
2019-11-09T17:48:17 < kakipr0> really nice
2019-11-09T17:48:32 < bitmask> has esd protection, although Im adding extra tvs on data pins, current limiting, ovlo, uvlo, pretty much everything
2019-11-09T17:49:14 < kakipr0> why to add anything?
2019-11-09T17:49:42 < englishman> kakipr0, pigs are dead https://imgur.com/t7dPFiH
2019-11-09T17:49:44 < bitmask> it was suggested in the datasheet and on some schematics I found, dunno, for a few cents why not
2019-11-09T17:50:25 < kakipr0> englishman: what is that slider?
2019-11-09T17:50:39 < bitmask> temperature
2019-11-09T17:51:40 < englishman> slider?
2019-11-09T17:51:43 < kakipr0> why not like... numeric one and then like some cheatsheet
2019-11-09T17:51:56 < kakipr0> in the middle
2019-11-09T17:52:24 < kakipr0> englishman: did you jar the brains?
2019-11-09T17:52:39 < englishman> no that's cretons
2019-11-09T17:53:05 < englishman> breakfast pork spread
2019-11-09T17:53:29 < kakipr0> oh canadian thing
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2019-11-09T17:54:05 < kakipr0> you have spread that looks like mashed brains
2019-11-09T17:54:14 < kakipr0> we have mämmi
2019-11-09T17:54:52 < englishman> cool
2019-11-09T17:54:56 < englishman> looks complicated
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2019-11-09T17:57:14 < kakipr0> it's fun to throw that box to kitchen table and tell to foreigners that this is food here
2019-11-09T17:58:08 < kakipr0> * on to kitchen table?
2019-11-09T17:59:34 < buZz> on the table, i would say
2019-11-09T18:00:01 < kakipr0> ofc
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2019-11-09T18:30:27 < Laurenceb_> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=35UUsMnwquo
2019-11-09T18:32:37 < kakipr0> thanks Laurenceb_
2019-11-09T18:32:43 < kakipr0> I was just about to ask musics
2019-11-09T18:33:54 < kakipr0> recommend "high power" single channel piezo driving solution
2019-11-09T18:34:22 < kakipr0> I have 3v3, 5v, 9-30v rails
2019-11-09T18:34:30 < kakipr0> I think I want multiple watts of power
2019-11-09T18:35:36 < kakipr0> https://www.aliexpress.com/item/4000041903262.html bottom of the enclosure would have something liek this
2019-11-09T18:36:36 < kakipr0> sending loud locator beeps to surrounding environment
2019-11-09T18:39:17 < kakipr0> I don't know how many watts I want
2019-11-09T18:39:40 < kakipr0> anyone done piezo alarms?
2019-11-09T18:48:32 < bitmask> i gots a question
2019-11-09T18:49:36 < bitmask> say an ic has separate vdd and vcc pins incase you want separate supplies for whatever reason, in the case that you use the same supply and they are both basically connected together, do you need separate sets of decoupling pins? the pins are right next to each other
2019-11-09T18:52:18 < kakipr0> what chip
2019-11-09T18:52:22 < kakipr0> what are you doing
2019-11-09T18:52:31 < bitmask> the usb chip i mentioned
2019-11-09T18:52:55 < kakipr0> you mean do you want like separate traces to same source?
2019-11-09T18:52:57 < bitmask> it uses vdd until it detects a device and is ready to charge, then it switches to Vs
2019-11-09T18:53:25 < bitmask> well have the caps with direct traces to the pins and the other ends of the caps connected together
2019-11-09T18:53:38 < kakipr0> why it does this?
2019-11-09T18:54:09 < bitmask> not sure exactly, something about using a slightly higher voltage incase you have line losses for Vs
2019-11-09T18:59:50 < kakipr0> give me that part id again
2019-11-09T19:00:50 < bitmask> UCS1003
2019-11-09T19:07:36 < kakipr0> another one is used for sourcing the usb
2019-11-09T19:07:41 < kakipr0> another is for internal logic
2019-11-09T19:09:56 < Steffanx> Damn you kakipr0 . Your nick is green and my brain reads karl p all the time (karl p is also green here)
2019-11-09T19:10:37 < kakipr0> I can be mistaken for someone sensible for a few seconds a time
2019-11-09T19:10:56 < kakipr0> bitmask: have you looked at evaluation module sch and layout?
2019-11-09T19:11:30 < bitmask> yea thats what I said, :P 
2019-11-09T19:11:45 < bitmask> yea but its designed to support using two separate supplies so it doesnt help me
2019-11-09T19:11:50 < kakipr0> if you have one source
2019-11-09T19:11:53 < kakipr0> of 5v
2019-11-09T19:11:57 < kakipr0> just bind them
2019-11-09T19:12:00 < kakipr0> right there
2019-11-09T19:12:03 < kakipr0> at pins
2019-11-09T19:12:07 < bitmask> ok, so just one set of decoupling caps
2019-11-09T19:12:31 < kakipr0> my return key was stuck again...
2019-11-09T19:12:55 < kakipr0> bitmask: if you have room it doesn't hurt to double them
2019-11-09T19:13:09 < bitmask> ok
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2019-11-09T19:13:41 < Cracki> >port power controller
2019-11-09T19:13:50 < Cracki> so what, does this supply 5V to the bus
2019-11-09T19:14:11 < Cracki> then you'll see all the connected devices' power fluctuations on that pin
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2019-11-09T19:14:43 < Cracki> >Split supply [...] is an option
2019-11-09T19:15:01 < kakipr0> he has one 5V regulator
2019-11-09T19:16:28 < Cracki> yes, option implying they anticipate shared/common/single supply
2019-11-09T19:19:09 < Cracki> don't see applicable app notes :>
2019-11-09T19:19:29 < kakipr0> just swing it
2019-11-09T19:19:41 < Cracki> >Smart Bettery
2019-11-09T19:19:59 < Cracki> cursed spellcheck one too many times
2019-11-09T19:20:34 < Cracki> they have a smart charger ref design. skimming
2019-11-09T19:20:57 < Thorn> kaki.musics https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z3lCroFnILs
2019-11-09T19:21:42 < kakipr0> nope
2019-11-09T19:21:55 < Cracki> their ucs1002 ref design ties vs and vdd together, with 150 uf and 10 nf bypass
2019-11-09T19:21:59 < Cracki> http://ww1.microchip.com/downloads/en/Appnotes/20005244A.pdf
2019-11-09T19:23:24 < bitmask> oh right, i have that open, forgot about that
2019-11-09T19:23:32 < Cracki> since they list that appnote for the ucs1003, I'd take that as guidance
2019-11-09T19:23:58 < Cracki> 150 uf sounds specific, I wonder how they arrived at that
2019-11-09T19:24:26 < bitmask> dunno but im gonna follow it
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2019-11-09T19:26:50 < Cracki> oh also WeWork is a scam. the founder took off with 1.7 billion after pissing away even more than that and screwing everyone
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2019-11-09T19:30:26 < bitmask> when connecting two adjacent pins, should you connect them where they are soldered or right after that
2019-11-09T19:32:09 < bitmask> I guess where they are soldered, thats what the dev board shows
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2019-11-09T19:39:03 < kakipr0> you mean do you bridge the pins?
2019-11-09T19:39:41 < kakipr0> sure
2019-11-09T19:40:00 < bitmask> yea
2019-11-09T19:40:01 < bitmask> k
2019-11-09T19:42:35 < kakipr0> just fill and set particular pins thermal relief off
2019-11-09T19:50:43 < Cracki> there was a biggish job fair this week. multiple companies offered CV checks. but NOBODY offers companies advice on how to attract talent (STEM/technical)
2019-11-09T19:51:43 < Cracki> 95% of booths had either walls of text, or buzzwords like "career" or "inspiration" on the wallpaper, but no indication what they actually do, or any kind of product
2019-11-09T19:53:11 < Cracki> little kids love showing their parents what they made. that's quickly driven out of them when they notice that others DGAF. is this an extension? can companies not imagine that potential employees would love to know what the fuck they would get to spend their workday on?
2019-11-09T19:54:08 < Cracki> one booth actually had some stuff to gawk at. the marketing drone didn't bring it, the senior engineer did, because he finds it interesting.
2019-11-09T19:54:53 < Cracki> he stepped in as soon as he noticed that the marketing drone couldn't even begin to respond to any serious questions
2019-11-09T19:56:06 < Cracki> I feel bad for him. he had a multi-sensor widget (mostly accelerometer) they slap on motors to detect health or failure conditions
2019-11-09T19:56:14 < Cracki> but it was fully encased, so nothing to show :>
2019-11-09T19:56:58 < kakipr0> i ended up driving piezo with drv8801
2019-11-09T19:57:24 < Cracki> that's not audiophile
2019-11-09T19:57:39 < kakipr0> yes
2019-11-09T19:57:50 < Cracki> does it sound retro? I like retro
2019-11-09T19:58:07 < kakipr0> it sounds square probs
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2019-11-09T20:26:49 < aandrew> what's a "cv check" - do they go over your cv to help you polish it or something?
2019-11-09T20:27:35 < aandrew> Cracki: keep in mind that at least in north america companies love to try to claim ownership of anything you do even on off time, even if not relevant to your job
2019-11-09T20:28:03 < Cracki> yes they tell you to use a time machine and redo your life
2019-11-09T20:28:20 < Cracki> nah, it's basically what to put in the cv, what not, how to structure it
2019-11-09T20:28:24 < Cracki> what to emphasize
2019-11-09T20:28:34 < Cracki> some are noob enough to list their high school
2019-11-09T20:28:53 < Cracki> yeah fuck those invention clauses
2019-11-09T20:29:03 < kakipr0> do I want in addition to cap a coil in series with piezo?
2019-11-09T20:29:28 < kakipr0> full bridge is used to drive piezo from DC-bus
2019-11-09T20:29:47 < Cracki> piezo sounds like an ohmic load
2019-11-09T20:30:03 < Cracki> and not much of one
2019-11-09T20:31:29 < Streaker> capacitive
2019-11-09T20:32:02 < Cracki> right
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2019-11-09T20:34:22 < kakipr0> inductor then
2019-11-09T20:34:28 < kakipr0> maybe resistor
2019-11-09T20:34:44 < kakipr0> I want the loudest noise with lowest power consumed
2019-11-09T20:34:56 < kakipr0> especially peak currents may be a disturbance
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2019-11-09T20:35:38 < kakipr0> inductor may actually increase deflection of piezo element
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2019-11-09T20:36:04 < kakipr0> also smooths input currents a bit
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2019-11-09T20:51:27 < aandrew> kakipr0: then you want to measure/model and design a resonant circuit for that piezo
2019-11-09T20:51:42 < kakipr0> ye
2019-11-09T20:51:44 < kakipr0> measure
2019-11-09T20:51:44 < aandrew> lots of stuff on google
2019-11-09T20:51:51 < kakipr0> i don't calculate
2019-11-09T20:52:08 < kakipr0> just measure and adjust with tongue in right angle
2019-11-09T20:52:25 < kakipr0> even the piezo horn doesn't have specs available
2019-11-09T20:52:34 < kakipr0> just "150W"
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2019-11-09T21:52:24 < rue_mohr> its probably assembly specific anyhow, run a sweep on it
2019-11-09T21:53:07 < rue_mohr> 30-50khz should find the sweetspot, carefull as with a strong signal the resonation may break it
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2019-11-09T22:26:14 < aandrew> hey rue_mohr 
2019-11-09T22:26:27 < rue_mohr> hey
2019-11-09T22:27:05 < aandrew> yep that' sexactly what I was thinking too. kakipr0 might not have any real specs or even a datasheet but that doesn't stop him from running some basic tests to find more info so he can get "the loudest noise iwth the lowest power consumed"
2019-11-09T22:27:40 < rue_mohr> oh on a scope you would see the resononce at the electrical level, 
2019-11-09T22:27:54 < rue_mohr> at ~0.5 it'll add an extra bump
2019-11-09T22:28:07 < rue_mohr> and it'll be all lopsided-funny just off resonance
2019-11-09T22:28:31 < rue_mohr> when you hit resonance the amplitude will spike and it'll turn into a really nice undistorted sine wave
2019-11-09T22:28:43 < aandrew> yep it'll ring like a bell
2019-11-09T22:29:06 < rue_mohr> hmm, yea, actaully if you impulse it, it'll just ring too
2019-11-09T22:29:30 < aandrew> I *think* you can look at the impulse response and figure out the repetition rate from the response too, no?
2019-11-09T22:29:58 < rue_mohr> it would be close, there is a slight skew from the damping
2019-11-09T22:30:01 < aandrew> i.e. if the damped sine is at 30kHz then you can hit it with a 30khz pulse train and it'll be resonating?
2019-11-09T22:30:19 < rue_mohr> just an impulse   ______|_____
2019-11-09T22:31:10 < rue_mohr> if its 150w, it'll be low impedence, so the ring wont last long
2019-11-09T22:31:39 < aandrew> right, you send it a single pulse and measure the peaks in the damped response
2019-11-09T22:32:09 < aandrew> but you can get an idea of where the resonant frequency is by looking at the time between peaks in the decaying sine, and then hit it with a pulse train at that freq
2019-11-09T22:32:18 < aandrew> I think. resonant circuits aren't a strong point
2019-11-09T22:32:23 < rue_mohr> it'd last an even shorter period of time if its run anywhere near someone with hearing like mine, especially if I aleady have something in hand to smash it with
2019-11-09T22:32:31 < aandrew> hahaha
2019-11-09T22:33:13 < aandrew> I used to have excellent hearing. then I got some weird viral infection and now my left ear is like 40dB down from baseline and I have tinitus and occasional meniere's which is fun
2019-11-09T22:33:43 < aandrew> my right ear is still like 2ish dB above average though, which is probably why I have tinitus in the first place; my brain was used to a LOT of audio sensory input and now it's making shit up for the left half
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2019-11-09T22:36:15 < Steffanx> People  always tell me i have vulcan hearing, but i think it's just.. i hear everything, even when concentrated. While others dont hear anything when concentrated/focussed on something. :)
2019-11-09T22:38:19 < Steffanx> is concentrated even proper english.
2019-11-09T22:41:35 < aandrew> concentrating
2019-11-09T22:41:41 < aandrew> (focusing on something)
2019-11-09T22:41:47 < Steffanx> yes, good :)
2019-11-09T22:44:16 < catphish> i'm trying to buy an android tablet but is seems absurdly difficult to reliably establish which ones allow non-approved firmwares
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2019-11-09T22:54:10 < Cracki> go by which has the most lively homebrew community?
2019-11-09T22:54:20 < Cracki> i.e. lineage os and others
2019-11-09T22:59:20 < Posterdati> hi
2019-11-09T22:59:21 < Posterdati> Previously I did work on stm32f3 with no issue, using ST standard periph. and drivers, I used the same scheme for the stm32f4xx...
2019-11-09T22:59:26 < Posterdati> please help, I downloaded the std peripherals library 1.8.0 for stm32f4xx-discovery (stm32f407xxx), I'm trying to compile a simple blinky program using this library and gcc on linux, but I've got a lot of errors in stm32f4xx_rcc.c from the library itself. I did set -DSTM32F40_41xxx in the Makefile, any hints? Thanks!
2019-11-09T23:03:18 < Posterdati> :(
2019-11-09T23:04:09 < Cracki> hint: post errors
2019-11-09T23:04:41 < Posterdati> ok
2019-11-09T23:04:51 < catphish> Cracki: yeah, i want to run lineage
2019-11-09T23:05:03 < catphish> but it's unclear to me what modern tablets have active support
2019-11-09T23:05:56 < qyx> go to lineage web
2019-11-09T23:06:01 < qyx> and search for supported models
2019-11-09T23:06:19 < qyx> if there is active support, it is listed
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2019-11-09T23:07:32 < Posterdati> https://pastebin.com/eE7SNJ9H
2019-11-09T23:07:39 < Posterdati> Cracki: https://pastebin.com/eE7SNJ9H
2019-11-09T23:08:46 < Cracki> "stdperiph" isn't hal
2019-11-09T23:09:02 < Cracki> stdperiph is old stuff, hal/ll is new stuff
2019-11-09T23:09:08 < Cracki> be sure to know what you use
2019-11-09T23:09:59 < Posterdati> hal?
2019-11-09T23:10:03 < Posterdati> what is it?
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2019-11-09T23:14:07 < catphish> qyx: as far as i can tell, the officially supported tablets for lineageos are ancient :(
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2019-11-09T23:28:39 < Guest67790> hal 9000
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2019-11-09T23:59:55 < Steffanx> Are there even decent android tablets nowadays catphish ?
--- Day changed Sun Nov 10 2019
2019-11-10T00:00:09 < catphish> Steffanx: well you'd hope so
2019-11-10T00:00:20 < Steffanx> Except for china ones (if you can call those decent...)
2019-11-10T00:00:38 < catphish> seems the choice comes down to a galaxy tab s5e or a mi pad 4
2019-11-10T00:01:28 < catphish> china does seem to have the edge lately
2019-11-10T00:02:33 < qyx> I have a sm-t560
2019-11-10T00:02:51 < qyx> not ofically supported, but there are lineage images for it
2019-11-10T00:02:58 < qyx> it is quite old
2019-11-10T00:03:37 < catphish> pretty much anything would be better than my current nexux 7
2019-11-10T00:03:40 < catphish> *nexus
2019-11-10T00:04:08 < qyx> (galaxy tab e 9.6)
2019-11-10T00:04:26 < catphish> mi pad 4 is at the top of my list as long as i can be sure it's unlockable
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2019-11-10T00:07:06 < catphish> looks like you can
2019-11-10T00:07:11 < catphish> so i'll try that
2019-11-10T00:07:57 < Steffanx> Why unlock it. What's the plan?
2019-11-10T00:08:20 < Steffanx> Doesnt it cause issues with banking apps and netflix (and more?)
2019-11-10T00:09:15 < catphish> i hope not
2019-11-10T00:10:38 < catphish> i would hope lineageos provides the same sandboxing that a standard firmware does
2019-11-10T00:12:10 < catphish> anyway, i just want to run a standard android, rather than a weird manufacturer derivative with weird modifications and no gaurentee of future upteablility
2019-11-10T00:21:33 < qyx> I cannot use my banking app on lineage
2019-11-10T00:21:37 < qyx> it says my device is rooted
2019-11-10T00:21:42 < qyx> (despite it is not)
2019-11-10T00:22:16 < catphish> well that's dumb
2019-11-10T00:22:21 < qyx> it is
2019-11-10T00:22:24 < catphish> just complain i guess
2019-11-10T00:22:31 < qyx> I did
2019-11-10T00:22:36 < catphish> luckily i don't need to bank on my tablet
2019-11-10T00:22:42 < qyx> have you ever complained to a bank?
2019-11-10T00:22:56 < catphish> i guess if it was a problem i'd just use another bank
2019-11-10T00:23:15 < qyx> hah
2019-11-10T00:23:30 < catphish> luckily that isn't a concern to me, i bank on my phone, which is stock google (i trust their firmware not to suck)
2019-11-10T00:23:47 < qyx> if I had to switch bank for every such fuckup, there would be no other options
2019-11-10T00:24:25 < catphish> i'm pretty fed up with banks anyway
2019-11-10T00:25:22 < Steffanx> . And DHL 
2019-11-10T00:25:33 < catphish> well indeed
2019-11-10T00:25:45 < catphish> i don't know if i'm easily offended
2019-11-10T00:26:00 < catphish> or is these institutions have just lost their interest in customers
2019-11-10T00:26:07 < Steffanx> Asshole
2019-11-10T00:26:32 < Steffanx> Did it work?
2019-11-10T00:26:46 < catphish> did who work?
2019-11-10T00:27:02 < Steffanx> Not offended. So you are not easily offended
2019-11-10T00:27:17 < kakipr0> is there memory in stm32 that is stored with vbat power?
2019-11-10T00:27:18 < catphish> oh, i see, no
2019-11-10T00:27:39 < catphish> kakipr0: yes
2019-11-10T00:27:41 < Steffanx> Yes, backup ram stuff. If the f107 has it
2019-11-10T00:28:04 < catphish> there's some RAM in the RTC
2019-11-10T00:28:13 < catphish> (iirc)
2019-11-10T00:28:18 < kakipr0> backup registers?
2019-11-10T00:28:37 < Steffanx> And that
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2019-11-10T00:29:54 < Steffanx> Newer stm32s have the backup sram,  I guess the f107 only has the backup registers 
2019-11-10T00:30:25 < Steffanx> Its oold ;)
2019-11-10T00:31:41 < kakipr0> it's cheaap
2019-11-10T00:31:56 < kakipr0> so if i use tamper pin
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2019-11-10T00:32:28 < kakipr0> and it clears backup registers
2019-11-10T00:33:17 < kakipr0> if it's pulled up from VDD
2019-11-10T00:33:33 < kakipr0> not only tamper but loss of power will clear the registers?
2019-11-10T00:34:32 < kakipr0> so so
2019-11-10T00:35:57 < kakipr0> is it advisable to pull up rtc-tamper pin from vbat then if you want not to lose registers when power is cut?
2019-11-10T00:38:12 < qyx> does rm says so?
2019-11-10T00:39:58 < qyx> so, f750 with XIP from quadspi and psram
2019-11-10T00:40:12 < qyx> vs. L4+ with hyperflash + hyperdram
2019-11-10T00:40:54 < qyx> the latter is lower pin count
2019-11-10T00:42:48 < kakipr0> Tamper detection is still active when V DD power is switched off. To avoid unwanted resettingof the data backup registers, the TAMPER pin should be externally tied to the correct level.
2019-11-10T00:50:01 < kakipr0> actually
2019-11-10T00:50:14 < kakipr0> I don't find pretty much anything about tamper pin levels
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2019-11-10T00:50:53 < kakipr0> I assume it's same parameters as any other pin but VDD being VBAT while VDD is not present
2019-11-10T00:54:28 < qyx> what does datasheet says?
2019-11-10T00:54:56 < qyx> you know, don't fucking assume anything
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2019-11-10T01:47:43 < rue_shop1> anyone know why two calls to rcc_periph_clock_enable(RCC_GPIOA);  would work GPIOA stop working?
2019-11-10T01:47:53 < rue_shop1> make...
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2019-11-10T01:56:00 < aandrew> rue_shop1: check out the macro, does it turn the clock off first?
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2019-11-10T01:58:21 < rue_shop1> not sure, I'll maybe dig into it tonight, I was wondering if anyone already knew
2019-11-10T01:58:46 < aandrew> I'm a cube man myself
2019-11-10T01:58:57 < rue_shop1> trying to stay focused on my project :)
2019-11-10T01:59:16 < rue_shop1> I chose opencm3, but it looks like it didn't come out on top
2019-11-10T01:59:50 < aandrew> heh
2019-11-10T01:59:56 < aandrew> what is the project, the filter thing?
2019-11-10T02:00:01 < rue_shop1> yup
2019-11-10T02:00:08 < rue_shop1> I just got an ads1115 working
2019-11-10T02:00:20 < rue_shop1> the 5V range will play out better for me
2019-11-10T02:00:34 < aandrew> nice
2019-11-10T02:02:14 < aandrew> I have a bunch of prototypes with 5x LTC2387 on them, hoping to make something interesting with that one day
2019-11-10T02:02:25 < rue_shop1> whats that one?
2019-11-10T02:02:51 < aandrew> 18 bit 15msps adc
2019-11-10T02:02:59 < rue_shop1> wow
2019-11-10T02:03:19 < rue_shop1> the ads1115 is 16 bit, and I'm getting about +- 13 counts
2019-11-10T02:03:38 < aandrew> yeah we are truncating to 16 bits atm 
2019-11-10T02:03:44 < rue_shop1> as its input is grounded, saying -10 right now
2019-11-10T02:03:45 < aandrew> get it working, then get it good type of approach
2019-11-10T02:04:01 < aandrew> man catherine zeta jones looks good
2019-11-10T02:04:05 < aandrew> watching entrapment
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2019-11-10T02:21:08 < upgrdman> windows pros: im currently using a self-expanding archive (SFX) to package a folder of shit into an EXE. It auto-extract to a temp folder, and then runs an EXE in it. For speed I don't use compression, but it still takes ~1 second to "docompress" into a temp folder. is there a better way to do this? i feel like windows might have some fuckery where it can memory map part of an exe directly into the filesystem, so it can run without 
2019-11-10T02:21:08 < upgrdman> decompressing into a temp folder first?
2019-11-10T02:21:55 < upgrdman> i just want a way to turn a folder of shit (EXEs, DLLS, etc.) into a single EXE that you double-click and it just runs.
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2019-11-10T02:25:31 < kakipr0> installer?
2019-11-10T02:26:27 < upgrdman> no installer.
2019-11-10T02:26:55 < kakipr0> winzip exe
2019-11-10T02:27:35 < upgrdman> ya, thats an SFx, that'd what i'm doing
2019-11-10T02:27:58 < upgrdman> like i said, i want to avoid the ~1 second of waste time "decompressing" my uncompressed SFX into a temp folder.
2019-11-10T02:29:47 < kakipr0> are you guise ready for quantum microcontrollers?
2019-11-10T02:31:15 < kakipr0> it must be implementation related problem
2019-11-10T02:31:21 < kakipr0> upgrdman
2019-11-10T02:31:28 < kakipr0> have you tried anythin else?
2019-11-10T02:31:55 < kakipr0> 7zip self exctractor?
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2019-11-10T03:00:03 < kakinull> movie recomd?
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2019-11-10T03:05:22 < kakinull> I think I will watch tnis jumanji thing
2019-11-10T03:05:53 < zyp> upgrdman, I don't think there's a faster way
2019-11-10T03:07:21 < zyp> if you're worried about speed, you probably need to unpack them ahead of time, either by just bundling shit in a zip that the user has to decompress or making an installer
2019-11-10T03:09:14 < zyp> personally I don't tend to worry much about speed, I've got a bunch of work utilities built on qt, so they bundle up both python and the qt dlls in an .exe
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2019-11-10T03:09:55 < zyp> takes a second or two to start, but it's not really a huge issue
2019-11-10T03:10:06 < zyp> they aren't restarted often
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2019-11-10T03:12:56 < englishman> kakinull: a boy and his dog
2019-11-10T03:13:18 < kakinull> boy and lynx
2019-11-10T03:15:14 < kakinull> poika ja ilves in finnish
2019-11-10T03:16:11 < englishman> written by harlan ellison
2019-11-10T03:17:13 < kakinull> lemme see that one
2019-11-10T03:18:03 < kakinull> yes I will definitelly watch this
2019-11-10T03:18:33 < kakinull> not now I'm 15minutes in already
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2019-11-10T15:52:28 < karlp> rue_shop1: there's nothing in rcc_periph_clock enable that would do anything from calling it twice.  somthing else is happening in your system.
2019-11-10T15:53:25 < karlp> zyp: you're packign python+qt with what? does that give you a nice exe for windows, and ... what? for osx/linux?
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2019-11-10T15:57:18 < zyp> pyinstaller
2019-11-10T15:57:36 < zyp> just run «pyinstaller -w main.py» and it'll take care of everything
2019-11-10T15:57:54 < zyp> haven't tried it on osx/linux
2019-11-10T15:58:05 < zyp> and honestly I don't think it's as important
2019-11-10T15:58:14 < karlp> probably not.
2019-11-10T15:58:24 < zyp> both osx and linux probably already has python and pip, and pip can grab the otehr deps
2019-11-10T16:00:49 < Cracki> what do you do about these programs packaging more dependencies than needed? that's a common problem with qt, you get a gigabyte of everything, even if you need just the basics
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2019-11-10T16:05:06 < karlp> you don't, if you're trying to get thigns done easily.
2019-11-10T16:06:03 < jpa-> karlp: i'm using bbfreeze on windows, and pyinstaller for linux/mac - i'm not sure why i'm not using pyinstaller for windows alo
2019-11-10T16:06:05 < jpa-> *also
2019-11-10T16:08:25 < jpa-> (the reason why i bother with pyinstaller for linux/mac is that protoc version needs to match python-protobuf version even though they are frequently installed from different packages)
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2019-11-10T16:48:17 < Posterdati> hi
2019-11-10T16:49:08 < Posterdati> I downloaded the HAL library and I was able to compile my project with GCC, thanks to people that yesterday helped me! :)
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2019-11-10T18:39:20 < mawk> I'm in the truck to NL Steffanx 
2019-11-10T18:39:27 < mawk> with all my stuff
2019-11-10T18:39:34 < doomba> oh damn mawk. they finally caught you?
2019-11-10T18:39:46 < mawk> lol
2019-11-10T18:39:48 < doomba> at least you have all your stuff. are they going to hold it for you during your sentence?
2019-11-10T18:39:56 < mawk> I'm fleeing France
2019-11-10T18:40:03 < mawk> no more debt like that
2019-11-10T18:40:19 < doomba> the EU doesn't get the final say?
2019-11-10T18:40:30 < doomba> you can just skip to the next country over and avoid debts in the previous country?
2019-11-10T18:40:49 < mawk> that depends on the amount I think, but basically I guess yes
2019-11-10T18:41:05 < mawk> for 2k€ debt like mine they won't chase me
2019-11-10T18:41:14 < doomba> that's kind of like here.
2019-11-10T18:41:22 < doomba> unless you're in debt to the federal gov. lik eme.
2019-11-10T18:41:33 < mawk> but the amount will increase at the legal interest rate every year, I should settle it one day
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2019-11-10T18:41:37 < mawk> ah, why?
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2019-11-10T18:42:00 < mawk> because it's a fine?
2019-11-10T18:42:02 < doomba> they won't chase me, but if my debt gets too big they will ban me from being able to hold a passport and thus i can't leave.
2019-11-10T18:42:09 < doomba> nope. no fine.
2019-11-10T18:42:14 < doomba> it's just unpaid taxes
2019-11-10T18:42:19 < mawk> really? that doesn't sound very constitutional
2019-11-10T18:42:23 < mawk> ah I see
2019-11-10T18:42:40 < doomba> i started getting behind a few years ago and it just snowballed
2019-11-10T18:42:55 < doomba> and now it's like 1/4 of a snowman.
2019-11-10T18:43:12 < doomba> a full snowman would be where i'm not allowed to leave the country anymore.
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2019-11-10T19:03:35 < Steffanx> Found a house mawk?
2019-11-10T19:03:41 < Steffanx> And accepted the job?
2019-11-10T19:09:01 < mawk> yes I took the Delftse job
2019-11-10T19:09:06 < mawk> no house yet
2019-11-10T19:09:14 < mawk> I stay at my father
2019-11-10T19:09:36 < mawk> but I can't take my cat with me 😭
2019-11-10T19:17:11 < bitmask> gotta fix some silkscreen but could this be it? could it be done? https://i.imgur.com/j6vGcQB.png
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2019-11-10T19:24:49 < kakipr0> nothing is ever done
2019-11-10T19:24:58 < kakipr0> you need to decide it's done
2019-11-10T19:25:12 < kakipr0> what size that coil is?
2019-11-10T19:31:06 < kakipr0> https://drive.google.com/file/d/1r1fVb2eQYDgDxetl0IAnrW0gHVBvIQkd/view?usp=sharing rate my poo
2019-11-10T19:33:41 < Steffanx> Why is it all in english?
2019-11-10T19:33:50 < Steffanx> I'm using to you doing it all in finnish
2019-11-10T19:33:56 < Steffanx> Used to*
2019-11-10T19:34:07 < kakipr0> cause this is serious!
2019-11-10T19:34:20 < bitmask> which coil
2019-11-10T19:34:22 < bitmask> the bottom one?
2019-11-10T19:34:28 < bitmask> its uhhh 
2019-11-10T19:35:33 < bitmask> 6.5 square, 6.1 height
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2019-11-10T19:38:46 < jpa-> kakipr0: looks reasonable, if somewhat complex
2019-11-10T19:39:58 < Steffanx> complex. i see 2 jumpers and a few resistors.
2019-11-10T19:40:13 < jpa-> kakipr0: how weak is your weak pulldown? the constant drain might empty your RTC battery quite fast
2019-11-10T19:40:20 < qyx> jumpers?
2019-11-10T19:40:27 < qyx> configurable poo?
2019-11-10T19:40:48 < kakipr0> jpa- that is the question
2019-11-10T19:40:52 < jpa-> Steffanx: yeah, but many combinations of jumpers and connectors to set correctly when installing
2019-11-10T19:41:13 < kakipr0> bitmask: exact part id for it?
2019-11-10T19:41:46 < jpa-> kakipr0: why not just use NO-type always?
2019-11-10T19:42:03 < kakipr0> I want to have options
2019-11-10T19:43:11 < bitmask> xal6060-562ME
2019-11-10T19:43:33 < qyx> xal is kawaii
2019-11-10T19:43:50 < jpa-> kakipr0: you could also use the edge detection mode and not care what type the switch is
2019-11-10T19:44:01 < kakipr0> I think it will do
2019-11-10T19:44:03 < qyx> such cubic
2019-11-10T19:44:51 < kakipr0> jpa-: does it make any difference in terms of this circuit?
2019-11-10T19:46:03 < jpa-> kakipr0: well, you wouldn't need any jumpers to configure
2019-11-10T19:46:14 < jpa-> just one weak pull-up and one place to connect the switch
2019-11-10T19:46:24 < jpa-> and then it would reset registers whenever the state of that switch changes
2019-11-10T19:46:55 < kakipr0> is there such mode?
2019-11-10T19:47:00 < jpa-> atleast on F4 there is
2019-11-10T19:47:19 < kakipr0> I didn't notice such in f107
2019-11-10T19:47:48 < jpa-> yeah, could be that F1 doesn't have it
2019-11-10T19:48:04 < qyx> bitmask: those sot23 are your mosfets to switch 20A?
2019-11-10T19:48:12 < jpa-> 6.3.1 suggests you can configure the polarity in software though
2019-11-10T19:48:22 < kakipr0> 20A? 8)
2019-11-10T19:48:23 < bitmask> no you fool, they switch 2-3 A
2019-11-10T19:48:44 < kakipr0> jpa-: yes
2019-11-10T19:48:45 < jpa-> so you can achieve the same by doing   if (GPIOx->IDR & TAMPER_PIN) { BKP_CR |= TPAL; } else { BKP_CR &= ~TPAL; }
2019-11-10T19:48:47 < qyx> yeah, but still quite much
2019-11-10T19:48:50 < bitmask> total is up to 20A but more like 10 max
2019-11-10T19:48:53 < qyx> what part no?
2019-11-10T19:49:04 < bitmask> AO3407A
2019-11-10T19:49:11 < bitmask> had to go with p chan
2019-11-10T19:49:19 < kakipr0> why?
2019-11-10T19:49:32 < bitmask> so that the ground line is always connected
2019-11-10T19:49:45 < bitmask> for the thermistor
2019-11-10T19:50:00 < bitmask> id rather have 3 wires going out than be more efficient 
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2019-11-10T19:50:19 < kakipr0> k
2019-11-10T19:51:01 < qyx> did you do thermal !ath?
2019-11-10T19:51:05 < qyx> math
2019-11-10T19:51:11 < bitmask> ha
2019-11-10T19:51:45 < qyx> they will heat to around 35C abnove ambient at 2A
2019-11-10T19:52:14 < bitmask> meh, duty cycle is limited to 50% probably anyway
2019-11-10T19:53:11 < qyx> and only if mthey are mounted on a 1inch^2 of copper
2019-11-10T19:53:28 < qyx> hm
2019-11-10T19:53:32 < kakipr0> it should do
2019-11-10T19:54:31 < bitmask> i'll keep my eye on em
2019-11-10T19:54:53 < bitmask> if they get too hot i'll consider a new package but for now i'll keep em
2019-11-10T19:54:56 < kakipr0> 35C rise.. that's nothing
2019-11-10T19:55:40 < jpa-> kakipr0: to me it just feels that such config jumpers are extra manual manufacturing step that someone will do wrong and cause mysterious failures (like putting in both weak-pull jumpers and having a midway level)
2019-11-10T19:56:03 < kakipr0> hmm indeed
2019-11-10T19:58:18 < kakipr0> and it's changed now
2019-11-10T19:59:17 < kakipr0> but do I add now a jumper to configure NO NC mode
2019-11-10T19:59:40 < jpa-> no, just detect on boot what state the switch is, and configure polarity based on that
2019-11-10T20:00:06 < kakipr0> it will be inside a device cabinet
2019-11-10T20:01:27 < jpa-> (and recheck polarity after each tamper interrupt)
2019-11-10T20:02:32 < kakipr0> so booting the device and slamming door closed causes tamper too but yeah that is like.. application level problem
2019-11-10T20:03:05 < jpa-> well if the door was open, you'd be getting tamper interrupt anyway
2019-11-10T20:03:22 < kakipr0> true
2019-11-10T20:03:47 < kakipr0> maybe it's just better to do only NO
2019-11-10T20:04:01 < kakipr0> then also door status can be determined
2019-11-10T20:04:57 < jpa-> yeah, i'd only officially support NO (well, "open when everything is ok") by default, and then be like "magic, we can use NC also" when it
2019-11-10T20:05:01 < jpa-> 's really needed
2019-11-10T20:07:28 < kakipr0> 1meg too much of pullup?
2019-11-10T20:08:10 < bitmask> https://hastebin.com/pehokisimo.txt
2019-11-10T20:08:13 < bitmask> BOMMMMMMM
2019-11-10T20:08:14 < jpa-> it's probably fine, though theoretically could lead to corrosion issues in long term due to insufficient wetting current
2019-11-10T20:09:34 < kakipr0> in switch contacts?
2019-11-10T20:09:46 < jpa-> yeah
2019-11-10T20:10:02 < kakipr0> no problem with NO
2019-11-10T20:10:12 < kakipr0> there is no circuit anyways
2019-11-10T20:10:40 < kakipr0> and arent the contacts like silver and shiet?
2019-11-10T20:10:51 < jpa-> except when door is opened - then there is mechanical wear but no electrical wetting ; but with good gold-plated switch contacts, the issue is mostly theoretical
2019-11-10T20:11:24 < kakipr0> add a massive cap to arc that contact
2019-11-10T20:11:37 < jpa-> yeah, not sure if that would help or hurt :)
2019-11-10T20:11:48 < kakipr0> when it starts leaking
2019-11-10T20:11:51 < kakipr0> not good
2019-11-10T20:13:19 < kakipr0> 330k is like 10microamps
2019-11-10T20:13:56 < kakipr0> 1M is 3microamps or so
2019-11-10T20:19:12 < jpa-> btw, remember to consider reverse leakage of bat54c if you are aiming for extra long battery life - it's a few µA also
2019-11-10T20:19:39 < kakipr0> yes
2019-11-10T20:19:45 < kakipr0> like 2uA
2019-11-10T20:19:55 < kakipr0> pulse test current
2019-11-10T20:20:56 < kakipr0> at 25volts
2019-11-10T20:23:50 < kakipr0> can tamper pin be configured with pull-up?
2019-11-10T20:24:33 < kakipr0> when configured as TAMPER-RTC
2019-11-10T20:28:28 < kakipr0> bbl>
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2019-11-10T20:47:32 < bitmask> for regular caps around 4.7 uF that you place anywhere on the board for the mcu, does the esr matter that much?
2019-11-10T20:48:43 < jpa-> i don't recognize the concept, but if they are ceramic, the ESR is low enough
2019-11-10T20:48:59 < bitmask> tantalum
2019-11-10T20:49:07 < jpa-> why tantalum?
2019-11-10T20:49:17 < bitmask> not sure, I think I was just following the arduino nano board
2019-11-10T20:49:47 < jpa-> well, they won't hurt, but in that case make sure you have the usual 100nF ceramic caps close to mcu pins
2019-11-10T20:49:52 < jadew> some voltage regulators require the ESR to be between certain values
2019-11-10T20:49:55 < jadew> otherwise they oscillate
2019-11-10T20:50:10 < jadew> 4.7 uF is not a good value for decoupling anyway
2019-11-10T20:50:15 < jadew> so you would use much smaller values for that
2019-11-10T20:50:21 < jadew> eg. 100 nF
2019-11-10T20:50:27 < bitmask> yea its not decoupling
2019-11-10T20:50:42 < jpa-> for the lulz caps?
2019-11-10T20:51:22 < bitmask> I think just a reservoir for stuff on the side of the ic thats opposite the regulator or something along those lines
2019-11-10T20:51:39 < jpa-> sounds weird
2019-11-10T20:51:45 < bitmask> I could be very wrong
2019-11-10T20:51:57 < jpa-> and usually that's exactly what decoupling means, kind-of; IMO decoupling is a weird word to start with
2019-11-10T20:52:01 < bitmask> oh
2019-11-10T20:52:03 < jadew> 4.7 uF tantalum sounds like something you'd put on the output, no?
2019-11-10T20:52:19 < jadew> output of the regulator
2019-11-10T20:52:38 < jpa-> 4.7µF tantalum sounds like something that would go with some 1990s LDO regulator that can't work with ceramic caps, yeah
2019-11-10T20:53:22 < jadew> jpa-, so with proven technology :P
2019-11-10T20:53:28 < bitmask> hmm, ftdi apparently wants a 4.7, maybe it was for that
2019-11-10T20:54:05 < jadew> new chrome sucks
2019-11-10T20:54:14 < jadew> they removed the close other tabs option
2019-11-10T20:55:42 < jpa-> bitmask: yeah, that's a good guess, as without inrush prevention 10µF is the max capacitance for USB device
2019-11-10T20:55:52 < jpa-> and tantalum would have less inrush than ceramic cap
2019-11-10T20:56:17 < jpa-> (when it's working anyway, when tantalum does the tantalum thing, it'll inrush really good :)
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2019-11-10T20:57:02 < bitmask> that 10uF usb max confuses me, I'm ignoring it and putting 150 uF
2019-11-10T20:57:06 < bitmask> for charging
2019-11-10T21:01:26 < bitmask> oh the avr datasheet does show 4.7 uF
2019-11-10T21:01:45 < bitmask> for decoupling
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2019-11-10T21:03:24 < bitmask> should I change it to a ceramic though?
2019-11-10T21:03:45 < bitmask> I already ordered the tantalum but didnt realize it had a dcr of 2 ohm
2019-11-10T21:03:46 < bitmask> seems high
2019-11-10T21:03:48 < bitmask> esr
2019-11-10T21:03:58 < jpa-> if you have the 100nF's, it won't matter
2019-11-10T21:04:15 < bitmask> alright, i'll keep it as is then
2019-11-10T21:04:26 < bitmask> save some money
2019-11-10T21:04:50 < jpa-> (it could matter for   https://electronics.stackexchange.com/questions/99320/are-tantalum-capacitors-safe-for-use-in-new-designs  but that's another story)
2019-11-10T21:05:26 < bitmask> i heard they are much safer than they used to be
2019-11-10T21:05:35 < jpa-> probably
2019-11-10T21:05:45 < jadew> there are different dielectrics that have different properties
2019-11-10T21:05:52 < bitmask> and as long as you dont over voltage them theres no problem
2019-11-10T21:06:05 < jadew> and you have to derrate them in order to avoid fires
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2019-11-10T21:07:19 < jadew> generally speaking, tantalum MnO2 will blow up in the most spectacular way
2019-11-10T21:07:31 < bitmask> I thought tantalums were supposed to be good, at least as a replacement of electrolytic, but it seems mlcc for everything is the new rule
2019-11-10T21:08:03 < jadew> well, sometimes the ESR of the tantalums is preferred
2019-11-10T21:12:31 < bitmask> wtf is soft termination on a mlcc, are the terminals coated in something soft or does it mean it can flex to avoid cracking when stressed? 
2019-11-10T21:13:11 < bitmask> oh it is in the datasheet
2019-11-10T21:13:14 < bitmask> didnt see it before
2019-11-10T21:13:16 < Steffanx> hah
2019-11-10T21:13:36 < jadew> http://www.samsungsem.com/global/product/passive-component/mlcc/soft-termination/index.jsp
2019-11-10T21:15:13 < jadew> I wonder how stress on the cap affects its high frequency performance
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2019-11-10T21:58:17 < kakipr0> don't touch that shiet
2019-11-10T21:58:27 < kakipr0> bitmask
2019-11-10T21:58:45 < bitmask> Yea wasnt going to, its expensive
2019-11-10T22:03:30 < kakipr0> you want everything non-special parts
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2019-11-10T22:06:39 < kakipr0> anyone have nice reference circuit for analog supply pins for f107?
2019-11-10T22:06:58 < kakipr0> cubepcb manual doesn't show f107 powerblock
2019-11-10T22:09:00 < kakipr0> at least all the negative supply pins can be directly tied to ground and shit
2019-11-10T22:10:49 < kakipr0> EUI-48 or EUI-64 chip?
2019-11-10T22:11:10 < aandrew> kakipr0: why bother
2019-11-10T22:11:18 < aandrew> kakipr0: just hash the unique ID of the STM32
2019-11-10T22:11:24 < kakipr0> mac address?
2019-11-10T22:11:33 < aandrew> kakipr0: just hash the unique ID of the STM32
2019-11-10T22:11:51 < kakipr0> eui-64 chip if you want unique ip6 address
2019-11-10T22:12:35 < kakipr0> mayube
2019-11-10T22:12:42 < kakipr0> I will add a footprint though
2019-11-10T22:13:05 < aandrew> yeah 24AAxx-E parts are decent and cheap enough
2019-11-10T22:13:26 < aandrew> gives you a tiny amount of NV storage that you don't have to dick around with reserving STM32 pages for eeprom emulation
2019-11-10T22:14:01 < kakipr0> hell yeah
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2019-11-10T22:36:39 < mawk> chip just for eui64 id ?
2019-11-10T22:36:54 < mawk> don't you have like a hw rng
2019-11-10T22:39:00 < kakipr0> options man options
2019-11-10T22:40:35 < qyx> he doesnt because he uses a 10y old mcu
2019-11-10T22:43:17 < kakipr0> footprint costs nothing
2019-11-10T22:44:41 < karlp> mawk: well, you do get a a nicely resrved "proper" eui that way.  hashing uniqueid is fine for lots of things, but if  you're realyl doing ethernet having a real mac is nice.
2019-11-10T22:44:50 < karlp> and yeah, teh 24aa parts are handy for that.
2019-11-10T22:49:02 < qyx> but it must be said that allocating globally unique IDs is a dumb idea
2019-11-10T22:49:17 < qyx> for the purpose of layer 2 communication
2019-11-10T22:51:15 < karlp> well, it was the 70s
2019-11-10T22:51:29 < karlp> I mean, yuou can apply for your own oui if you want...
2019-11-10T22:51:46 < karlp> just that buying 24aa parts or similar is also pretty sane
2019-11-10T22:51:54 < karlp> anyway, check out this awesome design: https://www.banggood.com/USB-Interface-10-Channel-12Bit-AD-Sampling-Data-Acquisition-STM32-UART-Communication-ADC-Module-p-1256844.html
2019-11-10T22:52:08 < karlp> uses an f103, still adds a winchiphead usb part
2019-11-10T22:57:57 < Steffanx> This aliexpress vna does that as well. F103 + some ch430 or something
2019-11-10T22:58:52 < kakipr0> china figured out stm32
2019-11-10T22:59:03 < Steffanx> yeah, after stm8 it was the next step
2019-11-10T23:02:13 < kakipr0> kaki figures out stm32 in +2years
2019-11-10T23:02:50 < kakipr0> are these timer pins multifunction
2019-11-10T23:03:18 < kakipr0> in lpc world there is like multiple types of timer pin functions
2019-11-10T23:04:29 < kakipr0> I think I need to consult the Cube
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2019-11-10T23:10:24 < aandrew> *shrug* - I use a hash of the unique ID and set the "locally administered" bit for the OUI
2019-11-10T23:13:40 < aandrew> reading about aeroelastic flutter... looks like a failed technolgoy but everything I've seen so far seems to have the coil/magnet at one end instead of in the middle, and no way to tune the resonance of the belt for the given wind velocity
2019-11-10T23:14:39 < BrainDamage> it's good only for toys, the efficiency is horrible and you're extremely limited in the material choice
2019-11-10T23:16:10 < aandrew> sure, but that's kind of the point
2019-11-10T23:16:16 < aandrew> for any real power you want the status quo
2019-11-10T23:16:29 < aandrew> but for sensors or tiny devices you're screwed if you don't have solar
2019-11-10T23:17:01 < aandrew> that and hte 'perturb and observe" to optimize the belt tension to maximize flutter might be helpful
2019-11-10T23:18:01 < kakipr0> https://www.mouser.com/ProductDetail/Maxim-Integrated/MAX17632BATE+?qs=sGAEpiMZZMvAX9OfPh%252B2NTRTUzqTannrtl0IUZjTs%252BadjDRPGYVNlw==
2019-11-10T23:18:03 < aandrew> also I kind of wonder if a belt made out of a strip of magnetic material and having the entire length covered with coils...
2019-11-10T23:18:10 < qyx> for sensors you use magnet generator!
2019-11-10T23:18:18 < qyx> tons of great designs on youtube
2019-11-10T23:18:26 < qyx> such perpetuum
2019-11-10T23:18:33 < aandrew> kakipr0: maxim = supply nightmares IME
2019-11-10T23:18:41 < kakipr0> howe?
2019-11-10T23:19:11 < kakipr0> I basically need an automotive buck and cheap and low power
2019-11-10T23:19:18 < kakipr0> *low idle power
2019-11-10T23:19:47 < aandrew> a lot of shawn fayne's talks also seem to have technical errors
2019-11-10T23:19:57 < qyx> kakipr0: what win?
2019-11-10T23:20:01 < qyx> Vin
2019-11-10T23:20:06 < aandrew> classical rorational machinery being 10% efficient
2019-11-10T23:20:09 < aandrew> that's the biggest
2019-11-10T23:20:14 < kakipr0> 9-30
2019-11-10T23:21:06 < aandrew> qyx: rotational systems start to fail at low energy levels
2019-11-10T23:24:10 < kakipr0> qyx: I have interesting mechanical energy harvesting innovation
2019-11-10T23:24:14 < kakipr0> real innovation
2019-11-10T23:24:20 < kakipr0> cannot tell you
2019-11-10T23:24:26 < kakipr0> as competitors
2019-11-10T23:24:50 < aandrew> https://patents.google.com/patent/US8026619B2/en?inventor=shawn+frayne&oq=shawn+frayne
2019-11-10T23:25:16 < qyx> you don't say
2019-11-10T23:25:17 < qyx> tell me
2019-11-10T23:25:38 < kakipr0> actually I can tell
2019-11-10T23:25:52 < qyx> I need something in the ~1mW range
2019-11-10T23:26:02 < aandrew> the patent seems to show the "magnets along the belt"
2019-11-10T23:26:26 < kakipr0> I pondered like how wind turbines like can get frozen and stuff
2019-11-10T23:27:19 < qyx> aandrew: I was thinking about a thing similar to a pole
2019-11-10T23:27:26 < kakipr0> also you need high mast for wind turbine
2019-11-10T23:27:27 < qyx> it leans in the wind
2019-11-10T23:27:42 < qyx> then it straightens
2019-11-10T23:27:44 < qyx> and again
2019-11-10T23:28:18 < kakipr0> it does oscillate right
2019-11-10T23:28:59 < qyx> oh I am probably not the first
2019-11-10T23:29:00 < qyx> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KZppFiGwJGQ
2019-11-10T23:29:23 < kakipr0> so then I realized wind creates oscillations qyx
2019-11-10T23:29:27 < aandrew> looks like the patent also is expired because of funding
2019-11-10T23:29:33 < kakipr0> trees oscillate in wind
2019-11-10T23:29:46 < aandrew> qyx: I've read about that kind of thing for trees
2019-11-10T23:29:47 < kakipr0> do you see where this is going qyx?
2019-11-10T23:30:43 < kakipr0> wind oscillator like that but a height of 20meters
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2019-11-10T23:31:05 < qyx> yeah, it is shown on the youtube video
2019-11-10T23:31:27 < Steffanx> and again it shows everything has been invented already :P
2019-11-10T23:31:48 < aandrew> he does also talk about auto tensioning in this talk
2019-11-10T23:31:53 < aandrew> so he's probably already gone through all of this
2019-11-10T23:33:01 < kakipr0> but has anyone pulled a wire from a top of the tree to ground based mechanical unit?
2019-11-10T23:34:08 < qyx> you would need a tree
2019-11-10T23:34:30 < kakipr0> yes
2019-11-10T23:34:38 < kakipr0> it's the limitation of the system
2019-11-10T23:35:50 < Steffanx> they should invent something that can use the wasted energy from people using open sores.
2019-11-10T23:36:17 < aandrew> kakipr0: yes they have, I've read about those systems years ago
2019-11-10T23:36:31 < qyx> also idk if you know but trees tend to grow over time
2019-11-10T23:36:49 < kakipr0> yes
2019-11-10T23:37:05 < kakipr0> I could possibly tell you because there is only problems to solve
2019-11-10T23:37:21 < kakipr0> I have done nothing
2019-11-10T23:37:35 < kakipr0> no effort has went into solutions
2019-11-10T23:37:50 < qyx> you are kakiing too much
2019-11-10T23:38:02 < qyx> instead of solving problems of growing trees
2019-11-10T23:38:53 < kakipr0> I innovated a solution for the problem already
2019-11-10T23:39:43 < Steffanx> i swear ive once seen a turbineish thing that used vibrating strings, but .. i cannot find it. So it might not exist.
2019-11-10T23:40:06 < kakipr0> just poles?
2019-11-10T23:40:19 < Steffanx> No, nut just poles.
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--- Day changed Mon Nov 11 2019
2019-11-11T00:01:16 < englishman> kakipr0 confirmed as making a wind powered dildo
2019-11-11T00:05:07 < Steffanx> Sexy
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2019-11-11T00:07:24 < bitmask> damn inductors are expensive
2019-11-11T00:07:48 < qyx> xal? yes
2019-11-11T00:08:05 < qyx> use china dr74/dr125 instead
2019-11-11T00:08:20 < qyx> ~0.30e maybe on tme
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2019-11-11T00:20:11 < kakipr0> bitmask: you want 6mm 10A inductor
2019-11-11T00:20:18 < kakipr0> and what was that 6uH?
2019-11-11T00:20:38 < kakipr0> and like 16milliohms
2019-11-11T00:20:46 < kakipr0> in 6mm cube
2019-11-11T00:21:08 < bitmask> 6uh? you mean the 5.6 or the 68
2019-11-11T00:21:08 < kakipr0> you pay money when you necessarily want so much in so little
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2019-11-11T00:22:58 < bitmask> ehh whatever, its $15 for 8, 4 of each
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2019-11-11T00:49:44 < kakipr0> englishman: you were talking about a jubb one day?
2019-11-11T00:56:43 < englishman> sure
2019-11-11T00:56:49 < englishman> how's your french?
2019-11-11T01:02:49 < kakipr0> I cannot come up with even a word of french
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2019-11-11T01:08:42 < kakipr0> datasheet has bump side view so I draw a mirror of that rite?
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2019-11-11T01:09:39 < kakipr0> my first bga
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2019-11-11T01:10:02 < kakipr0> davai
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2019-11-11T01:14:14 < rue_shop1> karlp, ok, odd, thanks for looking!
2019-11-11T01:14:36 < rue_shop1> I'll make a more isolated case and try again
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2019-11-11T01:20:19 < kakipr0> do I want like square solder mask per ball?
2019-11-11T01:21:55 < kakipr0> and positive paste ratio?
2019-11-11T01:30:17 < kakipr0> https://drive.google.com/file/d/1WQm-0Wtc7EubkqkohlEfQ4XI-ydJANqi/view?usp=sharing does it look okay?
2019-11-11T01:30:26 < kakipr0> pad size 250um
2019-11-11T01:30:47 < kakipr0> https://www.mouser.com/ProductDetail/STMicroelectronics/EMIF02-USB03F2?qs=sGAEpiMZZMvrYgwxMvI%2FG00q8fzajWE%2F
2019-11-11T01:32:50 < kakipr0> I'll go with that for now
2019-11-11T01:33:47 < kakipr0> cowboys and aliens wasn't that bad
2019-11-11T01:34:04 < kakipr0> what I remember it was crushed by critics
2019-11-11T01:34:37 < kakipr0> yes I see real movie snobs gave it like 1star
2019-11-11T01:38:42 < bitmask> almost placed my lcsc order
2019-11-11T01:38:50 < bitmask> by mistake, gotta wait until tomorrow
2019-11-11T01:39:02 < bitmask> see if I get any discounts
2019-11-11T01:50:06 < dongs> kakiretard
2019-11-11T01:50:09 < dongs> why are you using this stuff
2019-11-11T01:50:32 < dongs> https://lcsc.com/product-detail/_AMAZING-AZ1045-04F-R7G_C356811.html
2019-11-11T01:50:47 < dongs> this is the defacto cheaptrash TVS for usb/hdmi/whatever
2019-11-11T01:50:58 < dongs> and its smae footprint as like 5 other manufacturers
2019-11-11T01:51:29 < dongs> https://www.digikey.com/product-detail/en/semtech-corporation/RCLAMP0524P.TCT/RCLAMP0524PCT-ND/1774679 if you want a murican version of same
2019-11-11T01:51:32 < dongs> for $1/ea
2019-11-11T01:51:45 < dongs> it's even in digikey kikecad library already lmao
2019-11-11T01:52:00 < kakipr0> digikey kikecad library?
2019-11-11T01:52:15 < dongs> https://github.com/digikey/digikey-kicad-library
2019-11-11T01:52:54 < kakipr0> nah
2019-11-11T01:53:25 < kakipr0> I'm copying parts of evaluation board
2019-11-11T01:53:33 < dongs> well, dont bother
2019-11-11T01:53:42 < dongs> especially not wiht that WLCSP TVS trash lol.
2019-11-11T01:56:25 < kakipr0> if I use it
2019-11-11T01:56:36 < kakipr0> I die?
2019-11-11T01:56:49 < dongs> i dont know, you're just going to be wasting money and locking to a single supplier of shit
2019-11-11T01:57:31 < dongs> any TVS and separate 1.5k pullup resistor (assuming your STM32 even needs that and doesnt have it inside) is way cheaper and easier to assemble than that shit youre doing now
2019-11-11T01:58:13 < kakipr0> I understand
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2019-11-11T04:08:11 < kakipr0> when do vendors start providing symbols and footprints for kikecad
2019-11-11T04:09:09 < kakipr0> dongs, recommend 5v power switch
2019-11-11T04:09:23 < kakipr0> with OV UV OC thermal protections
2019-11-11T04:13:59 < kakipr0> https://www.mouser.com/ProductDetail/STMicroelectronics/STMPS2141STR?qs=qolwYojYp3T210KvjX1eWg== this is used in the eval board
2019-11-11T04:14:27 < dongs> https://lcsc.com/product-detail/Others_Anpec-Elec-APL3511CBI-TRG_C351147.html i use this
2019-11-11T04:15:27 < dongs> theres 0.5 1.5 2.5 A versions
2019-11-11T04:15:31 < dongs> and they're all pin compatible
2019-11-11T04:16:42 < dongs> seems to be pin ompatible to ST shit as well
2019-11-11T04:17:14 < kakipr0> in so8
2019-11-11T04:17:21 < dongs> you dont need it in So8
2019-11-11T04:18:48 < kakipr0> indeed
2019-11-11T04:18:54 < kakipr0> thanks dongs
2019-11-11T04:18:59 < dongs> what are you current limiting?
2019-11-11T04:19:00 < dongs> usb-tg?
2019-11-11T04:19:03 < dongs> otg
2019-11-11T04:19:11 < kakipr0> otg
2019-11-11T04:27:20 < kakipr0> null>
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2019-11-11T04:58:08 < kakinull> what do you do when ircs die for UTC night time dongs?
2019-11-11T04:58:36 < bitmask> jerks off repeatedly
2019-11-11T04:59:55 < kakinull> what do you do bitmasks?
2019-11-11T05:00:22 < bitmask> work on this stupid project
2019-11-11T05:00:22 < kakinull> is there local ircs you irc on?
2019-11-11T05:00:26 < kakinull> yes
2019-11-11T05:00:30 < kakinull> I have one too now
2019-11-11T05:01:30 < kakinull> is there snow yet bitmask?
2019-11-11T05:01:50 < kakinull> what state did you live in?
2019-11-11T05:02:17 < kakinull> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NQKzXHnBo9c musics
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2019-11-11T05:04:14 < bitmask> new jersey, no not yet
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2019-11-11T05:05:17 < bitmask> it did get cold enough that I would like to use the jacket already though
2019-11-11T05:05:49 < bitmask> putting it all together is gonna be annoying
2019-11-11T05:06:14 < kakinull> idk man
2019-11-11T05:06:32 < kakinull> your minimum component size is like 0603 and generally untrivial packages
2019-11-11T05:06:40 < kakinull> *trivial
2019-11-11T05:06:41 < bitmask> ?
2019-11-11T05:06:53 < kakinull> but then there is the mechanics
2019-11-11T05:07:09 < bitmask> what do the components matter? I was talking about wiring it all up
2019-11-11T05:07:10 < kakinull> trying to put it in some enclosure
2019-11-11T05:07:15 < bitmask> the board itself is fine
2019-11-11T05:07:22 < kakinull> yes
2019-11-11T05:07:54 < kakinull> tell me about new jersey
2019-11-11T05:08:34 < bitmask> ohh you were saying untrivial, I thought you meant trivial :/
2019-11-11T05:09:29 < kakinull> i meant trivial
2019-11-11T05:10:14 < bitmask> jesus, my brain isn't working, you meant its easy for the most part
2019-11-11T05:10:24 < bitmask> nothing thats gonna really cause problems
2019-11-11T05:10:34 < bitmask> right?
2019-11-11T05:10:37 < kakinull> I meant easy yes
2019-11-11T05:10:43 < bitmask> yes ok :P
2019-11-11T05:11:14 < bitmask> NJ is okay, people talk a lot of shit about it but I like my general area
2019-11-11T05:11:31 < bitmask> nice to get all 4 seasons
2019-11-11T05:13:31 < kakinull> how big it is?
2019-11-11T05:13:49 < kakinull> isn't it like the main area of east coast
2019-11-11T05:14:05 < kakinull> most population and stuff
2019-11-11T05:14:51 < bitmask> 22.6 km^2, 8.9 million people
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2019-11-11T05:15:05 < kakinull> wait was new jersey a city or state?
2019-11-11T05:15:11 < bitmask> state
2019-11-11T05:15:44 < bitmask> which is next to new york which has new york city which is one of (if not the) most populated city 
2019-11-11T05:17:03 < bitmask> I wouldn't want to live in a city though
2019-11-11T05:17:17 < kakinull> is there sub between new jersey and new york?
2019-11-11T05:18:10 < bitmask> yea but only northern new jersey
2019-11-11T05:18:16 < bitmask> im central
2019-11-11T05:18:35 < bitmask> right on the coast
2019-11-11T05:19:27 < kakinull> do you have a pickup truck?
2019-11-11T05:19:50 < bitmask> haha no
2019-11-11T05:20:11 < bitmask> oh i just realized I said 22.6 km^2,  I meant 22.6K km^2
2019-11-11T05:20:21 < kakinull> indeed
2019-11-11T05:20:43 < bitmask> :)
2019-11-11T05:21:17 < bitmask> do you think most americans drive pickups?
2019-11-11T05:21:27 < kakinull> it's like a thing
2019-11-11T05:21:33 < kakinull> you need to have one
2019-11-11T05:22:01 < bitmask> I mean in certain areas sure, but not generally
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2019-11-11T05:22:25 < bitmask> thats like southern US
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2019-11-11T05:23:00 < bitmask> although south new jersey kinda feels that way too, New Jersey is very different between south, central, and north
2019-11-11T05:24:32 < kakinull> city density
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2019-11-11T07:03:56 < dongs> kakipro, what
2019-11-11T07:04:01 < dongs> i dont even irc most of the time
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2019-11-11T10:57:06 < dongs> so uh
2019-11-11T10:57:22 < dongs> can I call 2.4/5ghz SSIDs same and the shit will know what to do automatically?
2019-11-11T11:00:01 < rue_bed> hows a 2.4G device gonna know about a dup ssid on a 5G channel?
2019-11-11T11:00:09 < dongs> https://www.quora.com/What-are-the-benefits-and-disadvantages-of-using-different-SSIDs-for-2-4-ghz-and-5-ghz-bands-on-the-same-router donno
2019-11-11T11:02:51 < qyx> same ssid on all routers and bands
2019-11-11T11:03:06 < qyx> only lames do different
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2019-11-11T11:03:54 < dongs> qyx, ok
2019-11-11T11:04:00 < dongs> and it hands over between 2.4 and 5 without dropping anything?
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2019-11-11T11:05:34 < qyx> it shjould not drop anything, some routers support roaming protocols
2019-11-11T11:05:43 < qyx> but not in all cases
2019-11-11T11:05:55 < qyx> idk if background scanning is possible across different bands
2019-11-11T11:07:01 < qyx> 802.11r should do that
2019-11-11T11:07:34 < effractur> dongs: yea that should be fine
2019-11-11T11:15:07 < PaulFertser> Some devices will stick hard to 2.4... See "band steering" for various different hacks that people have to resort to.
2019-11-11T11:20:28 < dongs> what the hell is taht
2019-11-11T11:21:43 < PaulFertser> Tricks to make devices prefer 5GHz when it's reasonable...
2019-11-11T11:23:01 < PaulFertser> E.g. some APs monitor probes on 5GHz and when they see a device probing there they forcibly disconnect it from 2.4 :)
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2019-11-11T11:32:16 < dongs> ah
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2019-11-11T12:05:35 < zyp> IME it depends on the equipment
2019-11-11T12:06:23 < zyp> at home I run one ssid across both bands and it works perfectly fine
2019-11-11T12:06:38 < zyp> but I've used shitty routers that doesn't work very well when doing the same
2019-11-11T12:07:14 < Steffanx> Until windows decides to use 5GHz when 2.4 is a much  better choice.
2019-11-11T12:08:39 < zyp> at home I've got one UAP-AC-LITE and one old UAP now
2019-11-11T12:08:48 < zyp> so one 2.4G/5G and one 2.4G only
2019-11-11T12:08:56 < zyp> all with one ssid
2019-11-11T12:22:39 < karlp> aandrew: don't you run into problems with routing locally administered macs?
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2019-11-11T12:30:33 < karlp> dongs: that semtech part even has spice model params in the datasheet, sexy
2019-11-11T12:34:58 < karlp> I've had problems with using the same SSID, but I'm told it varies alot, based on android versions, ios versions, windows versions and what the APs are doing 
2019-11-11T12:37:11 < jpa-> does anyone know any ready-made solutions for linux for streaming data from device nodes to central server? i want something like inserting rows to SQL table, but so that if network connection is unavailable they are cached locally and pushed when connection is restored
2019-11-11T12:38:17 < jpa-> no need for any fancy syncing back to clients, currently i'm considering some custom mqtt thing but seems like this should have been solved n+1 times already
2019-11-11T12:39:19 < jpa-> or perhaps local sqlite and rsync that
2019-11-11T12:39:39 < Thorn> musics https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CMtdd5mVasA
2019-11-11T12:41:48 < BrainDamage> jpa-: local sqlite is not necessary, just directly write the commands to a file and rsync that
2019-11-11T12:42:33 < BrainDamage> and use the option to delete when transfer is complete
2019-11-11T12:45:09 < karlp> (mqtt bridges with qos>=1).....
2019-11-11T12:45:35 < karlp> you shouldn't need anything custom.
2019-11-11T12:46:04 < jpa-> i mean, i'll need to do some custom glue to get the data from mqtt to sqlite
2019-11-11T12:46:27 < jpa-> which seems annoying, considering it will more or less depend on the database schema etc.
2019-11-11T12:46:52 < karlp> yeah, that's a perpetual issue with "just put it in a database"
2019-11-11T12:47:10 < jpa-> though i guess i could put sqlite commands into mqtt pipe
2019-11-11T12:48:35 < jpa-> (or, at that point, mysql commands, to get better access control on what commands are allowed to do)
2019-11-11T12:52:31 < karlp> well, we use mqtt bridges for the "soring locally and pushing queue when reconnected"
2019-11-11T12:52:37 < karlp> what you do wit hthe data on the other side is always custom.
2019-11-11T12:52:55 < karlp> did you want just a drop in "insert this extra parameter into your database connection uri" ?
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2019-11-11T13:08:15 < jpa-> karlp: kind of yeah
2019-11-11T13:10:41 < karlp> yeah, I'l like my teeth whitened, a pony, and a rainbow in a jar too.
2019-11-11T13:12:07 < jpa-> :)
2019-11-11T13:12:45 < jpa-> there's so many sqlite replication solutions that work like that, it seems strange that there is nothing for a simpler need
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2019-11-11T13:56:54 < BrainDamage> I know redis has builtin replication function and it's a key-value store, perhaps you could use that?
2019-11-11T14:16:47 < dongs> zyp: do you know how to measure Z using tinyVNA
2019-11-11T14:16:55 < dongs> (whatever that is, im just retweeting a question
2019-11-11T14:17:19 < BrainDamage> z is impedance
2019-11-11T14:17:33 < dongs> isnt that something specified then
2019-11-11T14:17:55 < BrainDamage> no, the impedance of the load isn't necessarily what you want it to be
2019-11-11T14:18:10 < BrainDamage> esp as function of frequency
2019-11-11T14:19:48 < dongs> so can it be measured with a vna?
2019-11-11T14:19:49 < dongs> idk
2019-11-11T14:20:31 < BrainDamage> yes
2019-11-11T14:20:58 < BrainDamage> vna measure the signal that goes through and the signal that gets bounced off
2019-11-11T14:21:11 < BrainDamage> that's a function of the impedance difference between the source and the load
2019-11-11T14:21:24 < BrainDamage> ( reflection coefficient )
2019-11-11T14:21:38 < dongs> https://www.mwrf.com/test-measurement/make-accurate-impedance-measurements-using-vna this looks relevant
2019-11-11T14:21:45 < dongs> just gonna retweet this and done
2019-11-11T14:22:21 < BrainDamage> yup formula 1 and 2 are how you get the impedance
2019-11-11T14:22:49 < BrainDamage> rest is added calculations to make it reliable
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2019-11-11T14:44:31 < jpa-> BrainDamage: there are many with replication, but i don't quite want that - no point downloading the database for all nodes
2019-11-11T14:46:40 < dongs> found out what they REALLY wanted
2019-11-11T14:47:12 < dongs> its a HD-SDI reclocker that doesn't work on long cable runs, because SURPRISE they misconfigured the reclocker IC to dampen the signal
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2019-11-11T14:52:24 < jadew> there's little you can do in that case, especially if it's a long cable that goes into the IC
2019-11-11T14:54:27 < jadew> for RF, you can potentially fix it, by introducing a correct reflection on source end of the cable, but for digital data, if it's fast enough, the IC will sample the butchered signal
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2019-11-11T14:56:23 < jadew> if they can add a matching network between the cable and the IC, then that will fix it
2019-11-11T15:23:41 < jadew> have JLC hiked their prices?
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2019-11-11T15:36:56 < aandrew> karlp: I've not run into that issue, no. My MACs so far have been unique. I literally take the IDCODE and UID32 and hash them: https://pastebin.com/KkPe89Ze
2019-11-11T15:38:28 < dongs> HAL_
2019-11-11T15:38:30 < dongs> good work
2019-11-11T15:38:47 < aandrew> nothing wrong with HAL
2019-11-11T15:39:08 < dongs> i mean at this point I think i'd use libopenAIDScm3 than HAL
2019-11-11T15:39:13 < dongs> thats how much isn't wrong with it :)
2019-11-11T15:39:21 < aandrew> if you say so
2019-11-11T15:40:04 < aandrew> dunno; I've run into only one or two instances where it's just been so broken I want to storm STMicro's offices and bitchslap someone
2019-11-11T15:40:07 < ac_slater> dongs: do you not like the HAL cause it's not really "portable" on the STM32 devices? Or do you just not trust other people writing low level code for you?
2019-11-11T15:41:10 < aandrew> I mean clocks, timers, i2c/spi/uart, dma, usb, flash... all work decently
2019-11-11T15:41:37 < aandrew> I've not done anything with gfx or audio and very little with fmc so can't really comment there
2019-11-11T15:41:42 < aandrew> oh adc also works fine
2019-11-11T15:42:23 < aandrew> I've also not relied on HAL for any real PM so that might be a steaming pile of shit
2019-11-11T15:42:45 < ac_slater> my biggest issue with the HAL is making it work nicely AS A HAL. As in, have my "user" code support multiple boards. It's possible, just lots of typedefs and macros to map things. Wish there was a portability layer or something
2019-11-11T15:43:21 < ac_slater> can't really complain though, I haven't ever used the LL drivers manually only the HAL
2019-11-11T15:44:50 < aandrew> ac_slater: yes, I agree that the API is kind of stank. it tries hard, but there's still lots of gotchas and HAL_foo_ex() BS to deal with and #ifdef your way around
2019-11-11T15:45:00 < aandrew> I don't really use it as a HAL so perhaps that's why I don't run into its warts
2019-11-11T15:45:21 < aandrew> oh and ethernet, used shitloads of ethernet with HAL
2019-11-11T15:45:32 < aandrew> bleh, snow
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2019-11-11T15:46:24 < ac_slater> yea snow here too :(
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2019-11-11T15:47:41 < zyp> dongs, that's the whole point of a VNA, isn't it?
2019-11-11T15:48:13 < aandrew> ac_slater makes me think you're canadian
2019-11-11T15:48:19 < aandrew> rather the nick makes me think that
2019-11-11T15:48:33 < ac_slater> aandrew: close, Boston
2019-11-11T15:48:43 < karlp> aandrew: hrm, I've had issues in the past with it, but glad it's working :)  I use hash of the unique id bits myself, just haven't been using it for ethernet mac
2019-11-11T15:49:24 < aandrew> karlp: I was just xoring them together before but got too many collisions. figured I have a CRC32 peripheral, why not
2019-11-11T15:49:31 < aandrew> that's been pretty effective at mixing the bits
2019-11-11T15:49:41 < dongs> zyp yeah nvm solved, tehse guys had compeltely different problem that they were trtyign to solve
2019-11-11T15:49:51 < karlp> indeed.
2019-11-11T15:49:55 < aandrew> although STM32 CRC32 periph was *clearly* designed by someone so high they were on a completely different plane of reality
2019-11-11T15:50:59 < karlp> yeah, not a lot of fun
2019-11-11T15:51:15 < karlp> having to do the revbits dance to use any host side libs to get the same otuput is fucking nasty
2019-11-11T15:51:25 < aandrew> oh man
2019-11-11T15:52:11 < aandrew> you want to rev bits going in or coming out? and is the poly rev'd too? so many options and it takes a lot of screwing around to figure out what's right
2019-11-11T15:52:23 < aandrew> also are you inverting bytes or wrods
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2019-11-11T15:52:44 < karlp> tell me abotu it: https://zerobin.net/?c765bbaa3d2af0d5#9hzvNO0EaPBVwUqQaqdoNZFDWgH1jGH6D/dA9G0Q19s=
2019-11-11T15:52:47 < aandrew> my crc_init() routine is marked read only. :-)
2019-11-11T15:53:42 < aandrew> well HAL helps there: https://pastebin.com/XPs4h81q
2019-11-11T15:53:57 < aandrew> before I used HAL I did exactly what you're doing there 
2019-11-11T15:54:21 < karlp> do they really do revbit shit inside the hal layer?
2019-11-11T15:54:31 < karlp> because they know that no-one can use it like it is natively?
2019-11-11T15:54:46 < kakinull> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=btIGYe28jWw USSR still exists?
2019-11-11T15:54:48 < dongs> carcurate
2019-11-11T15:54:55 < dongs> kakipaki
2019-11-11T15:55:54 < BrainDamage> kakipay and kakiexpress
2019-11-11T15:56:09 < aandrew> karlp: no, at least stm32f756 does it in hardware
2019-11-11T15:56:22 < aandrew> you set the config bits up and feed it data
2019-11-11T15:56:35 < aandrew> I have to go back and check stm32f2 which is where I first started using it
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2019-11-11T15:57:14 < karlp> yah, l1 doesnt have any of those options on the crc periph
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2019-11-11T15:58:01 < aandrew> this is where a HAL would actually be a nice thing. I should create a test stm32f2 proj to look and see 
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2019-11-11T16:11:27 < PaulFertser> kakinull: probably they're prankers rather than freaks? Never met anybody like that here.
2019-11-11T16:17:06 < PaulFertser> kakinull: his spoken English is very good for someone who was born and lives in Chelyabinsk.
2019-11-11T16:25:00 < Thorn> T - 30 min https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pIDuv0Ta0XQ
2019-11-11T16:32:08 < BrainDamage> slow tv: live transit of mercury in front of the sun: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hUd6HgfqOv8
2019-11-11T16:46:07 < Thorn> T - 10 min
2019-11-11T16:48:19 < englishman> lol stmicro hal "offices"
2019-11-11T16:48:30 < englishman> more like "bangladeshi mud huts"
2019-11-11T16:52:11 < doomba> why is mercury so jumpy
2019-11-11T16:52:43 < doomba> thermal radiation distortion?
2019-11-11T16:55:16 < Thorn> T - 1 min
2019-11-11T17:02:44 < Thorn> https://www.reddit.com/r/YouShouldKnow/comments/du95s3/ysk_that_youtube_is_updating_their_terms_of/
2019-11-11T17:04:22 < aandrew> englishman: lol
2019-11-11T17:04:28 < aandrew> enghow'd the FAE rep visit go?
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2019-11-11T17:04:40 < aandrew> englishman: ^^
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2019-11-11T18:00:06 < englishman> aandrew: fuck those guys
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2019-11-11T18:18:38 < bitmask> anyone use metal dome switches? 
2019-11-11T18:23:44 < bitmask> nvm
2019-11-11T18:30:18 < buZz> :)
2019-11-11T18:30:24 < buZz> bitmask: making a new device?
2019-11-11T18:30:58 < bitmask> its for the heated jacket ive been working on, trying to decide what kinda buttons I want
2019-11-11T18:33:07 < buZz> bitmask: imho, capacitive buttons
2019-11-11T18:33:16 < buZz> that way you can use conductive thread as 'buttons'
2019-11-11T18:33:36 < buZz> make sure to make the interaction 'hold for X time' , and not just 'toggle'
2019-11-11T18:34:02 < bitmask> what would you do with the conductive thread
2019-11-11T18:34:28 < buZz> it would -be- the button
2019-11-11T18:34:44 < buZz> clothing doesnt really like rigid interfaces
2019-11-11T18:34:44 < bitmask> you mean fabric then
2019-11-11T18:34:46 < buZz> nope
2019-11-11T18:34:58 < buZz> well, fabric is made out of thread, thats correct
2019-11-11T18:35:16 < BrainDamage> use actual metal buttons
2019-11-11T18:35:33 < bitmask> yea I dont think capacitive is the right way to go
2019-11-11T18:35:57 < BrainDamage> no, I mean, you can use capacitive sensing, but metal buttons made for fabric
2019-11-11T18:36:00 < bitmask> its going to have to be rigid anyway, theres a pcb holding the oled and stuff anyway
2019-11-11T18:36:20 < BrainDamage> so you can quick turn it on and off without accessing the ui
2019-11-11T18:36:20 < bitmask> metal buttons made for fabric?
2019-11-11T18:36:23 < buZz> capacitive totally is the right way to go
2019-11-11T18:36:29 < BrainDamage> you know ... regular buttons
2019-11-11T18:36:32 < buZz> you dont want mechanics
2019-11-11T18:36:37 < bitmask> ohhh
2019-11-11T18:36:40 < buZz> you want to be able to wash your clothing ;)
2019-11-11T18:36:56 < buZz> heating jackets that you cant wash === stinky sweat jacket
2019-11-11T18:37:08 < BrainDamage> https://www.totallybuttons.com/media/catalog/product/cache/1/image/9df78eab33525d08d6e5fb8d27136e95/m/1/m1431.jpg
2019-11-11T18:37:09 < bitmask> the control module will be removable
2019-11-11T18:37:12 < BrainDamage> stuff like this
2019-11-11T18:37:42 < BrainDamage> add a few decorative ones that are tied to touch sensing
2019-11-11T18:39:59 < bitmask> wont work if im wearing gloves though
2019-11-11T18:40:56 < zyp> why not?
2019-11-11T18:41:06 < bitmask> capacitive works with gloves? how?
2019-11-11T18:41:52 < zyp> uh, you know capacitive touchsensing can work through enclosures?
2019-11-11T18:42:08 < zyp> it's just a matter of sensitivity
2019-11-11T18:42:08 < bitmask> guess I didnt
2019-11-11T18:42:47 < zyp> also there's phone gloves
2019-11-11T18:43:04 < zyp> with conductive fingertips
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2019-11-11T18:58:15 < karlp> like, almost all glvoes these days
2019-11-11T18:58:21 < karlp> used to be a feature, now it's standard requirement
2019-11-11T18:58:28 < bitmask> didnt realize that
2019-11-11T18:58:58 < bitmask> havent bought gloves in a long time, im gonna start wearing them though when im doing food deliveries
2019-11-11T18:59:22 < bitmask> you guys convinced me, just not sure a good way to wire them up
2019-11-11T18:59:32 < bitmask> since it has to be removable, not the buttons but the rest
2019-11-11T19:06:31 < aandrew> fuck capacitive buttons. you're in a coat and it's cold and you don't want to fuck around with capsense shit. real buttons and since it's accessed when bundled up, make sure they're fairly highly tactile
2019-11-11T19:08:03 < zyp> agreed
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2019-11-11T19:08:16 < zyp> I was just arguing that capsense is possible, not that it's a good idea
2019-11-11T19:08:32 < bitmask> hah good, I didnt really like the idea
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2019-11-11T19:30:05 < qyx> wave with your right hand to warm up, wave with the left one to cool a bit
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2019-11-11T19:45:09 < englishman> Nissan's new concept EV gets rid of all buttons and replaces them with capsense
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2019-11-11T19:47:16 < aandrew> good for them :-)
2019-11-11T19:47:38 < englishman> Ghosn has barely one foot in the grave and already Nissan is trying seppuku
2019-11-11T19:48:27 < englishman> apparently VW will have 70EVs by 2030
2019-11-11T19:48:35 < englishman> I wonder if they will have any good ones?
2019-11-11T19:49:17 < specing> they maybe will once they start producing electric bicycles
2019-11-11T19:49:25 < zyp> dunno, I hear golf mk8 dropped egolf
2019-11-11T19:49:36 < englishman> they did
2019-11-11T19:49:41 < englishman> no 2020 egolf here
2019-11-11T19:50:02 < zyp> shame, the replacement looks like a toy
2019-11-11T19:50:23 < englishman> and, they aren't going to bring it stateside
2019-11-11T19:51:24  * aandrew hugs his 2015 TDI Passat
2019-11-11T19:51:46 < aandrew> gonna hug it a little more carefully for the drive back to ontario from detroit though
2019-11-11T19:51:56 < jpa-> bitmask: i think you should put accelerometer and sense shivering
2019-11-11T19:51:59 < aandrew> fucking 12cm of snow here before tomorrow
2019-11-11T19:52:07 < jpa-> and humidity sensor to sense sweating
2019-11-11T19:52:09 < aandrew> got the snow tires scheduled to be put on tomorrow
2019-11-11T19:52:22 < aandrew> you could use an air quality sensor for that too :-)
2019-11-11T19:52:30 < englishman> I put mine on yesterday
2019-11-11T19:52:31 < zyp> aandrew, haha, one of my friends too
2019-11-11T19:52:41 < zyp> first snow of the year came yesterday
2019-11-11T19:53:21 < zyp> we were out eating at a buffet place together and we invited them over for games afterward, he didn't manage to get up a small hill on the way to my house :p
2019-11-11T19:53:25 < aandrew> yeah I'd scheduled this two weeks ago, I was close, so close
2019-11-11T19:53:36 < aandrew> I did get teh gardens prepared for the winter though last week
2019-11-11T19:53:58 < englishman> zyp https://imgur.com/wrCdRQg
2019-11-11T19:54:01 < zyp> I had no problems driving up and down and around while he were struggling
2019-11-11T19:54:01 < aandrew> fucking 3 full lawn bags full of hosta leaves, and two full of hydrangea clippings
2019-11-11T19:54:07 < zyp> and it wasn't even steep
2019-11-11T19:54:53 < zyp> so we ended up going over to their place instead and he almost slid off the road on the way there
2019-11-11T19:55:27 < PaulFertser> zyp: so how come? Tires got too stiff due to cold?
2019-11-11T19:55:59 < zyp> PaulFertser, don't you get snow? you should be familiar with the difference between summer tires and snow tires?
2019-11-11T19:56:31 < zyp> but yeah, I think it's a combination of softer rubber and a different tread pattern
2019-11-11T19:57:01 < PaulFertser> zyp: I'll be getting plenty of snow soon :( Many people here use studded tires in winter because there's also enough ice on the roads.
2019-11-11T19:57:13 < zyp> common here as well
2019-11-11T19:57:29 < zyp> had studded on old car, studless on current
2019-11-11T19:57:35 < PaulFertser> zyp: but when it's still above zero the snow doesn't seem to be any worse than a bit of mud.
2019-11-11T19:58:23 < zyp> idk, I were surprised myself there were that big a difference
2019-11-11T19:58:45 < PaulFertser> Probably too old too, like 10 years old?
2019-11-11T19:58:45 < zyp> he's got a 2018 leaf, so it's not like the summer tires are that worn either
2019-11-11T20:00:12 < zyp> by the way, how is it in other countries, is it common to swap summer/winter yourself or pay somebody to do it?
2019-11-11T20:00:22 < Steffanx> Both.
2019-11-11T20:00:36 < Steffanx> I do it myself, because then i can do it whatever i want.
2019-11-11T20:00:36 < zyp> same here
2019-11-11T20:00:40 < zyp> yeah
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2019-11-11T20:00:43 < englishman> it's more common to have a garage do it here
2019-11-11T20:01:00 < englishman> due to having too much money
2019-11-11T20:01:01 < PaulFertser> It's certainly uncommon to DIY swap just tires, but swapping full wheels is kinda common I guess.
2019-11-11T20:01:19 < englishman> garages will even store your tires
2019-11-11T20:01:21 < zyp> I'm of course talking about a wheel swap
2019-11-11T20:01:24 < zyp> yeah, same here
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2019-11-11T20:01:36 < PaulFertser> Do you use a torque wrench when DIY swapping?
2019-11-11T20:01:44 < Steffanx> but doesnt every canadian have a huuuge garage themself?
2019-11-11T20:01:53 < zyp> nah
2019-11-11T20:01:53 < Steffanx> to store it
2019-11-11T20:01:58 < englishman> but I always get mags and swap them myself so I can do it at my convenience and not have to wait in lines during the tire seasons
2019-11-11T20:02:17 < englishman> plenty of apartment dwellers stefs
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2019-11-11T20:02:56 < PaulFertser> I was helping my father to do the procedure recently and two out of 5 bolts just broke while I was unscrewing them. Weird as hell, never saw that happening before. And those bolts served well for 5+ years.
2019-11-11T20:02:56 < zyp> PaulFertser, I used to just torque them by hand
2019-11-11T20:03:10 < Steffanx> Same, no torque wrench
2019-11-11T20:03:19 < zyp> but last year I bought an impact wrench and some torque bits, whatever they are called
2019-11-11T20:03:29 < englishman> don't forget the anti-seize paste
2019-11-11T20:03:39 < zyp> https://www.biltema.no/verktoy/handverktoy/pipeverktoy/momentnokler/momentstaver-5-stk-2000028488 <- this sort of shit
2019-11-11T20:03:41 < englishman> hmm android wanted to autocorrect that to anti-semite
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2019-11-11T20:05:24 < zyp> so I don't bother with any pre-loosing or post-tighting, just do it all with the impact wrench
2019-11-11T20:11:12 < Laurenceb> anti-semite paste
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2019-11-11T20:40:57 < kakipr0> do I add series resistors to usb lines?
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2019-11-11T20:41:09 < jpa-> depends on the chip, read manual carefully
2019-11-11T20:41:16 < jpa-> also consider whether you need external pull-up on d+
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2019-11-11T20:43:08 < kakipr0> EMIF02-USB03F2 had some pullups and pulldowns
2019-11-11T20:43:13 < kakipr0> unutilized
2019-11-11T20:43:25 < kakipr0> in eval board of f107
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2019-11-11T20:46:54 < kakipr0> no other pullups or pulldowns visible on the schematics
2019-11-11T20:47:11 -!- renn0xtk9 [~max@2a02:810d:1540:8ba:541a:f57f:7644:3eb1] has joined ##stm32
2019-11-11T20:47:20 < kakipr0> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NQKzXHnBo9c musics
2019-11-11T20:49:33 < kakipr0> eval board had ESD/EMI device with 33ohm passthrough for data lines
2019-11-11T20:49:55 < kakipr0> and 22ohm bypass resistors externally alongside of that tvs device
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2019-11-11T20:54:04 < kakipr0> HNP/SNP/IP inside (no need for any external resistor)
2019-11-11T20:54:11 < kakipr0> whatever that means
2019-11-11T20:56:16 < kakipr0> maybe I butt them series resistors towards connector side of tvs
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2019-11-11T21:06:31 < kakipr0> my throat feels like shit
2019-11-11T21:06:48 < kakipr0> aids
2019-11-11T21:12:38 < kakipr0> I wonder if there is any particular reason they have used active low power switch for usb
2019-11-11T21:23:02 < kakipr0> I assume otg power switch is not part of usb peripheral
2019-11-11T21:23:10 < kakipr0> but just gpio
2019-11-11T21:23:13 < kakipr0> rite?
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2019-11-11T21:28:52 < kakipr0> recommend vertical micro b receptable?
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2019-11-11T21:30:07 < kakipr0> receptacle
2019-11-11T21:30:29 < qyx> yes
2019-11-11T21:32:04 < qyx> Connector_USB:USB_Micro-B_Molex-105133-0001
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2019-11-11T21:34:09 < kakipr0> i'll go with 614105150721
2019-11-11T21:34:16 < kakipr0> I see clone in ali
2019-11-11T21:35:35 < kakipr0> or maybe genuine
2019-11-11T21:35:38 < kakipr0> https://www.aliexpress.com/item/32633184095.html?
2019-11-11T21:36:01 < kakipr0> looks like the real thing though
2019-11-11T21:36:57 < kakipr0> https://katalog.we-online.de/en/em/COM_MICRO_TYPE_B_VERTICAL
2019-11-11T21:38:57 < kakipr0> may be some excess parts
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2019-11-11T21:43:22 < aandrew> oh speaking of clones
2019-11-11T21:43:57 < aandrew> I got myself a right cloney jlink: https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B077VFQR7X
2019-11-11T21:45:18 < Laurenceb> I hate Edmund Kelly
2019-11-11T21:45:29 < Laurenceb> now I'm trying to design a stratosolar that actually works
2019-11-11T21:45:38 < Laurenceb> deicing tethers is a pita
2019-11-11T21:48:00 < qyx> hello my analog friends
2019-11-11T21:48:05 < qyx> I have a problem to fight
2019-11-11T21:48:09 < qyx> and solutions to consider
2019-11-11T21:48:46 < qyx> let's imagine a photovoltaic panel, I would like to make its output more deterministic
2019-11-11T21:49:00 < Laurenceb> interesting how the G "surface energy" term in fracture theory is nothing like the chemical surface energy
2019-11-11T21:49:01 < Laurenceb> uh oh
2019-11-11T21:49:05 < Laurenceb> is Edmund here?
2019-11-11T21:49:12 < qyx> something like 25V when there is enough energy from the sun, <24V when not
2019-11-11T21:49:23 < Laurenceb> inb4 put it in the stratosphere
2019-11-11T21:49:53 < qyx> so basically a buck-boost converter with input voltage/power/mppt regulation
2019-11-11T21:50:34 < qyx> it lowers the output current/voltage when it is not able to maintain the desired input voltage or power or whatever
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2019-11-11T21:50:53 < qyx> and then I would like to use that output, 25V nominal
2019-11-11T21:50:59 < qyx> to charge a backup battery
2019-11-11T21:51:09 < qyx> but only if there is enough of solar energy
2019-11-11T21:51:34 < qyx> so the battery charger regulator also does input voltage regulation
2019-11-11T21:51:54 < qyx> ot charges when the input is, say, >24.5V
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2019-11-11T21:52:11 < qyx> and lowers the charging power if the input collapses under that threshold
2019-11-11T21:52:13 < qyx> and now
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2019-11-11T21:52:25 < kakipr0> isn't that what mppt does?
2019-11-11T21:52:38 < qyx> I am suspecting those two regulation loops will not cooperate as I wish
2019-11-11T21:52:57 < qyx> ie. I fear the thing will start oscillating
2019-11-11T21:53:29 < qyx> it is, but there would be two mppts in a row
2019-11-11T22:05:55 < zyp> why?
2019-11-11T22:07:32 < qyx> why do I have such feelings?
2019-11-11T22:07:39 < qyx> or why two of them
2019-11-11T22:07:46 < zyp> why two mppt?
2019-11-11T22:08:08  * qyx starting inkscape
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2019-11-11T22:08:40 < zyp> I mean, PV side would need a mppt to find the best current/voltage tradeoff
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2019-11-11T22:09:19 < zyp> but the battery side would only need plain current regulation with voltage limit or something, no?
2019-11-11T22:09:38 < zyp> I'm not familiar with SLA charging profiles
2019-11-11T22:13:34 < qyx> https://i.imgur.com/ZZIIm07.png
2019-11-11T22:13:54 < qyx> yeah but it also needs input voltage regulation
2019-11-11T22:14:08 < qyx> to lower the charging current if the power source is not able to maintain constant voltage
2019-11-11T22:14:24 < zyp> oh, so you'll have a common fixed-ish voltage bus
2019-11-11T22:14:25 < qyx> notebook charger ICs have such features
2019-11-11T22:14:33 < qyx> yeah, Vbus is like 24V
2019-11-11T22:14:33 < zyp> yeah
2019-11-11T22:14:55 < zyp> so you just reduce current when voltage falls a bit, similar to USB BC
2019-11-11T22:14:57 < qyx> you would get cheap redundancy
2019-11-11T22:15:01 < qyx> and extendability
2019-11-11T22:15:36 < qyx> the gharger part is easier imho, I could use the IC
2019-11-11T22:16:13 < zyp> but yeah, I see the risk of oscillation
2019-11-11T22:16:48 < qyx> I could also set the MPP manually, charging current too
2019-11-11T22:16:54 < qyx> communicate over smbus or so
2019-11-11T22:17:00 < qyx> and do it all in software
2019-11-11T22:18:35 < zyp> the problem is that you'd have the PV reg also do output voltage regulation
2019-11-11T22:19:12 < qyx> yeah
2019-11-11T22:19:29 < qyx> PV reg should do input voltage and output voltage regulation
2019-11-11T22:19:34 < zyp> normal grid-tie inverters don't really need to worry much about that, they won't lift the grid voltage much even feeding in max power
2019-11-11T22:19:45 < zyp> just overvoltage cutout
2019-11-11T22:32:05 < qyx> so, I'll pick some NVDC liion charger with 24V input and try something
2019-11-11T22:35:38 < qyx> probably I need something like SPV1020
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2019-11-11T22:57:14 < kakipr0> is crystal temperature relevant?
2019-11-11T22:57:29 < kakipr0> can such information be effectivelly used for anything?
2019-11-11T22:58:50 < Cracki> you could measure temperature by observing the frequency of the crystal
2019-11-11T22:59:11 < Cracki> but then you'd need a good reference
2019-11-11T23:01:27 < aandrew> heh cherry is out
2019-11-11T23:03:38 < Steffanx> cherry who?
2019-11-11T23:04:00 < Steffanx> cherry what
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2019-11-11T23:07:40 < Cracki> switch to harder stuff
2019-11-11T23:10:56 < kakipr0> traceck is input to target?
2019-11-11T23:11:07 < kakipr0> or output
2019-11-11T23:16:52 < Cracki> trm shows it as output by target
2019-11-11T23:17:31 < Laurenceb> https://journals.sagepub.com/doi/full/10.1177/0309132515623368
2019-11-11T23:18:51 < Cracki> >sticking an icicle where it doesn't belong
2019-11-11T23:19:52 < Laurenceb> ice stuff made me think of this
2019-11-11T23:20:06 < Laurenceb> that "paper" wont help me solve tether deicing
2019-11-11T23:20:16 < Cracki> rm0008 >Consequently, the output frequency of TRACECK is equal to HCLK/2.
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2019-11-11T23:49:50 < Cracki> what are you gonna trace there, kakipr0?
2019-11-11T23:50:07 < kakipr0> anythin
2019-11-11T23:52:06 < Cracki> I'm thinking... take 72 mhz hclk, then it's running at 36 mhz and upto 4 lines... but that's two bits per core cycle, maybe four if it's using both edges
2019-11-11T23:53:18 < Cracki> there must be some additional compression
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2019-11-11T23:54:45 < bitmask> alright, lcsc and mouser orders placed
2019-11-11T23:54:56 < bitmask> no going back now
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--- Day changed Tue Nov 12 2019
2019-11-12T00:02:14 < Cracki> ah! "CoreSight only sends out all PC values" that can be squeezed in a few bits. http://www.sase.com.ar/2013/files/2013/09/SASE2013-ARM_Trace.pdf
2019-11-12T00:04:23 < kakipr0> Not many use it – maybe < 5%. The best do.
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2019-11-12T00:15:50 < Cracki> I certainly haven't used trace yet. ITM doesn't count :P
2019-11-12T00:17:07 < qyx> BrainDamage: you were doing some recuperative buck converter modeling, is it possible to compute t_on for both mosfets knowing Vin, Vout and ...? Do I need to measure current somewhere in such converter for that?
2019-11-12T00:17:42 < qyx> I am more interested in DCM, CCM should be easy
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2019-11-12T00:19:08 < qyx> or in other words, I am trying to determine t_on for the sync mosfet in DCM
2019-11-12T00:23:40 < kakipr0> ITM is poor mans trace
2019-11-12T00:29:41 < kakipr0> project is getting out of hand
2019-11-12T00:29:48 < kakipr0> 20 schematics and counting
2019-11-12T00:30:18 < Cracki> good, modularization
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2019-11-12T00:40:53 < kakipr0> does 595 have defined state after power-up?
2019-11-12T00:41:17 < kakipr0> output enable permanently in active state
2019-11-12T00:47:46 < kakipr0> lcd bsrs are back to bite me
2019-11-12T00:47:57 < kakipr0> those are powered from lcd_vdd that is switchable
2019-11-12T00:56:53 < Cracki> srclr input, use?
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2019-11-12T00:58:43 < kakipr0> tied to lcd_vdd
2019-11-12T01:03:22 < Cracki> so it's all fucked
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2019-11-12T01:04:30 < Cracki> next thing I'd check is whether the receivers of those outputs wake up after the shiftregister... then you might have time to shift in defined bits
2019-11-12T01:05:00 < Cracki> ... or if it even matters when they get random stuff
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2019-11-12T02:12:09 < jadew> I decided to limit my google exposure
2019-11-12T02:12:19 < jadew> so... switching from Chrome to FF
2019-11-12T02:12:33 < jadew> and maybe find a different search engine, or maybe multiple search engines
2019-11-12T02:13:16 < jadew> the crap they did with Chrome makes you realize what kind of company they really are
2019-11-12T02:13:46 < jadew> then there's also the "Ok Google" stuff which is even more telling
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2019-11-12T02:15:45 < kakipr0> phone literally hears what you are saying
2019-11-12T02:15:52 < jadew> it's not that
2019-11-12T02:16:28 < jadew> it's the fact that they disabled most of the functionality, unless you enable "web and app activity"
2019-11-12T02:16:45 < jadew> which is a setting that lets it track and record all of your browser history and app usage
2019-11-12T02:16:53 < jadew> which it didn't need before
2019-11-12T02:17:15 < jadew> they're basically forcing your hand to give up everything about you at every corner
2019-11-12T02:17:31 < jadew> and I believe that's the mentality behind most of the Chrome changes too
2019-11-12T02:17:58 < jadew> the way the new location/search box works, forcing you to take a detour through the search engine, as opposed to serving you results from the history
2019-11-12T02:18:14 < kakipr0> https://drive.google.com/file/d/1-vITcV3_yIwv3ZVrzYLZzA0UnX_hpHcj/view?usp=sharing opinions about this persistent output design
2019-11-12T02:18:16 < jadew> the various UI quircks that result in more tabs open (not sure how that s helping them, but I'm sure it does)
2019-11-12T02:19:56 < jadew> kakipr0, about which part in particular?
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2019-11-12T02:20:08 < kakipr0> how I made it persistent
2019-11-12T02:20:35 < jadew> you mean the OE stuff?
2019-11-12T02:20:51 < jadew> is it not persistent already?
2019-11-12T02:21:27 < jadew> what are you trying to solve? I'm, not familiar with that IC (just opened the datasheet)
2019-11-12T02:23:27 < jadew> ok... so the output is enabled either programatically or by setting QA to 0
2019-11-12T02:23:52 < jadew> it's interesting
2019-11-12T02:24:44 < jadew> you don't need the two resistors in series with the diodes
2019-11-12T02:25:01 < kakipr0> i'm paranoid about potential gliches
2019-11-12T02:25:12 < jadew> what glitches?
2019-11-12T02:25:25 < kakipr0> power-up output gliches
2019-11-12T02:25:41 < jadew> well, those won't save you
2019-11-12T02:25:45 < doomba> wow i'm so stoned i thought you said "waddup glitches?"
2019-11-12T02:25:56 < jadew> you have the 100k resistor for that
2019-11-12T02:26:13 < jadew> although, that cap won't help
2019-11-12T02:26:22 < bitmask> hmm I guess altium limits its violations to 500 :P 
2019-11-12T02:27:02 < kakipr0> I mean gliches from output pins
2019-11-12T02:27:05 < bitmask> 500 silk to solder mask violations
2019-11-12T02:27:10 < kakipr0> jadew
2019-11-12T02:27:20 < jadew> if this is meant to control something important, and you absolutely cannot have glitches, then you need sequential powering up
2019-11-12T02:27:39 < jadew> and using QA to override QE is not a good idea either
2019-11-12T02:27:48 < jadew> because every bit you have in there, will eventually pass through QE
2019-11-12T02:28:27 < jadew> so if you want to program the output with the output enabled, whatever passes through QA when the bits are shifted, will also control the output
2019-11-12T02:28:34 < jadew> *with the output disabled
2019-11-12T02:29:17 < jadew> so you might want to find a way to keep QA in control of QE, but at the same time override ANYTHING from QA
2019-11-12T02:29:44 < jadew> I'd go with a high value resistor from QA to OE
2019-11-12T02:30:08 < jadew> and then PERSISTENT_ENABLED could be connected directly to OE
2019-11-12T02:30:29 < kakipr0> persistent_enable is connected to mcu
2019-11-12T02:30:32 < jadew> when you want to override, you start driving OE directly via PERSISTENT_ENABLE
2019-11-12T02:30:46 < jadew> when you want to take your hands off of it, you tristate it in the MCU
2019-11-12T02:31:10 < jadew> (and it will be driven by QA, via the large resistor)
2019-11-12T02:31:20 < kakipr0> this thing should keep it's state when mcu is powered down
2019-11-12T02:31:26 < jadew> yeah, it will
2019-11-12T02:31:44 < jadew> assuming the MCU puts its pins in a tristate mode when powered down (which it should be able to do)
2019-11-12T02:32:08 < kakipr0> can we assume glitchless switch
2019-11-12T02:32:17 < jadew> let me think about that
2019-11-12T02:33:01 < jadew> what is the power up state?
2019-11-12T02:33:37 < kakipr0> ?
2019-11-12T02:33:40 < jadew> is it known or undefined?
2019-11-12T02:33:45 < jadew> for the data on the pins
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2019-11-12T02:34:19 < kakipr0> I asked about that just an hour ago
2019-11-12T02:34:25 < jadew> thing is... if you want to avoid power up glitches, you can't have OE controlled by its own outputs
2019-11-12T02:35:07 < jadew> I guess you could do it with a LPF
2019-11-12T02:35:31 < jadew> but that seems wrong
2019-11-12T02:36:03 < kakipr0> unless passives are selected so that OA cannot keep OE active in power-up situation
2019-11-12T02:36:03 < jadew> ok, I know
2019-11-12T02:36:16 < jadew> you add another driver
2019-11-12T02:36:18 < jadew> a fet
2019-11-12T02:36:32 < jadew> that by default keeps OE high, so the output is disabled
2019-11-12T02:36:54 < kakipr0> explain
2019-11-12T02:36:57 < jadew> then you turn that off when the MCU boots and gets in control of things
2019-11-12T02:37:15 < jadew> the MCU should also be able to keep an output on while sleeping
2019-11-12T02:37:37 < kakipr0> MCU will go to power down mode
2019-11-12T02:37:55 < jadew> and it can't keep its outputs?
2019-11-12T02:38:02 < jadew> check the datasheet, it might be able to do it
2019-11-12T02:38:21 < kakipr0> if it can - it consumes power
2019-11-12T02:38:28 < jadew> not a lot of power
2019-11-12T02:39:02 < jadew> you'd be driving a FET, so you're not moving a lot of electrons
2019-11-12T02:44:33 < kakipr0> In Standby mode, all I/O pins are high impedance except:
2019-11-12T02:44:49 < kakipr0> reset, tamper, wkup
2019-11-12T02:45:02 < jadew> bummer
2019-11-12T02:45:21 < kakipr0> what did you expect?
2019-11-12T02:45:51 < kakipr0> what do you feel about my high side bypass capacitor?
2019-11-12T02:46:23 < jadew> which one?
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2019-11-12T02:47:07 < jadew> the 3V3 one?
2019-11-12T02:47:15 < jadew> the one next to the 100k resistor?
2019-11-12T02:47:48 < kakipr0> yes
2019-11-12T02:47:56 < jadew> I assume you have it there so the line voltage quickly goes up, right?
2019-11-12T02:48:09 < jadew> (when you apply power)
2019-11-12T02:48:15 < kakipr0> that
2019-11-12T02:48:18 < kakipr0> and
2019-11-12T02:48:18 < jadew> you'll have to simulate it
2019-11-12T02:48:24 < kakipr0> filter glitches
2019-11-12T02:48:26 < kakipr0> maybe
2019-11-12T02:49:47 < kakipr0> let's add some testpoints
2019-11-12T02:49:56 < jadew> better yet, you could try it on a breadboard
2019-11-12T02:50:23 < jadew> and you can add various series resistors with it
2019-11-12T02:50:49 < jadew> to see how slow can it be, while it's still effective
2019-11-12T02:51:04 < kakipr0> slow it must be
2019-11-12T02:51:08 < jadew> that will give you a feel of how good the design is, when you don't have the series resistors
2019-11-12T02:51:39 < jadew> at the first glance, I see no reason why that IC would ever power in enabled mode
2019-11-12T02:53:05 < jadew> yeah, I think that cap is great
2019-11-12T02:53:23 < jadew> and it might solve your problem altogether
2019-11-12T02:53:38 < jadew> so just resistor from QA to OE and then drive OE directly from the MCU
2019-11-12T02:54:14 < jadew> you'll want to experiment with the cap and use a small value
2019-11-12T02:56:36 < kakipr0> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hcY69fpx9w0
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2019-11-12T03:20:28 < kakinull> time to null
2019-11-12T03:21:42 < kakinull> I feel flu comming
2019-11-12T03:23:35 < kakinull> jadew: what are you working on?
2019-11-12T03:31:08 < kakinull> recommend Qi chargers
2019-11-12T03:31:35 < kakinull> one I ordered from ebay doesn't quite work with my phone case
2019-11-12T03:31:46 < kakinull> otherwise it's ok
2019-11-12T03:31:59 < jadew> kakinull, at the moment, I'm just submitting some boards for production
2019-11-12T03:32:45 < kakinull> I take my phone out from the case every night
2019-11-12T03:32:56 < kakinull> I didn't remember how slim it is
2019-11-12T03:33:05 < kakinull> it's like a piece of glass
2019-11-12T03:33:16 < jadew> I don't keep my phone in a case
2019-11-12T03:33:51 < jadew> it'll get a couple of falls, but it usually survives
2019-11-12T03:35:00 < kakinull> if I keep my phone in that leather case and charge only wirelessly this samsung never dies
2019-11-12T03:35:24 < kakinull> it removes both failure methods
2019-11-12T03:35:43 < kakinull> usb receptable fault and screen cracking
2019-11-12T03:39:16 < kakinull> modern phone is too slim for pocket
2019-11-12T03:39:33 < kakinull> it needs to bulge in pocket
2019-11-12T03:39:44 < kakinull> it needs to mechanically lock into pocket
2019-11-12T03:47:16 < kakinull> it needs to press against thigt for confirmation of it's presense
2019-11-12T03:55:59 < jadew> https://preview.redd.it/gmteay32xxv31.gif?format=mp4&s=5daac4e75e8828ab1da25e562ab39a3bc1020f2f
2019-11-12T03:57:23 < kakinull> niec
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2019-11-12T04:04:15 < kakinull> I think dual coil is what I want
2019-11-12T04:22:13 < jadew> chinese PCB pricing is so damn stupid
2019-11-12T04:22:46 < jadew> 100x50 mm = 7 USD, 108x50 mm = 21 USD
2019-11-12T04:26:26 < jadew> it's cheaper to order from a different service...
2019-11-12T04:26:48 < jadew> and that includes DHL shipping
2019-11-12T04:26:53 < jadew> almost
2019-11-12T04:27:51 < jadew> lol... same shit again: 10 board = $7, 20 boards = $25
2019-11-12T04:33:26 < kakinull> that sounds like cheapohouse
2019-11-12T04:36:59 < bitmask> https://i.imgur.com/H1VwwRt.png
2019-11-12T04:37:09 < bitmask> do those dots on the left mean its connected to Vin as well?
2019-11-12T04:39:51 < jadew> what dots?
2019-11-12T04:40:07 < jadew> the empty circles?
2019-11-12T04:40:28 < jadew> if yes, then the no
2019-11-12T04:40:56 < bitmask> yea
2019-11-12T04:41:02 < bitmask> im confused, it says this:
2019-11-12T04:41:04 < bitmask> Adjust the AAM threshold by connecting a
2019-11-12T04:41:04 < bitmask> resistor from AAM pin to ground. Take Figure 5
2019-11-12T04:41:05 < bitmask> as reference. An internal 6.2µA current source
2019-11-12T04:41:05 < bitmask> charges the external resistor. 
2019-11-12T04:41:07 < bitmask> oops :P
2019-11-12T04:41:42 < bitmask> which is fine, but then on the sample layout it has Vcc going to the AAM pin
2019-11-12T04:41:54 < jadew> it doesn't
2019-11-12T04:42:03 < jadew> where do you see that?
2019-11-12T04:42:11 < bitmask> in the datasheet
2019-11-12T04:42:14 < bitmask> one sec
2019-11-12T04:42:54 < jadew> oh, that's figure 9
2019-11-12T04:42:55 < bitmask> https://i.imgur.com/5v7oQ79.png
2019-11-12T04:43:52 < jadew> it's not connected there either
2019-11-12T04:43:57 < jadew> AAM is pin 1
2019-11-12T04:44:11 < bitmask> look at the vcc routed on the bottom
2019-11-12T04:44:19 < jadew> which has the R and C going to ground and another R going somewhere else
2019-11-12T04:44:31 < jadew> checking
2019-11-12T04:45:07 < sync> jadew: it's not really stupid
2019-11-12T04:45:21 < sync> they know that they can fit below 100x100mm better into their panel gaps
2019-11-12T04:45:30 < jadew> bitmask, it's not straight to VCC tho, it goes through R8
2019-11-12T04:46:12 < jadew> sync, I would have believed that, but the fact that 20 boards cost 5 times as much as 10, makes me wonder if they're not just stupid
2019-11-12T04:46:59 < kakinull> you should follow the application schematic rather bitmask
2019-11-12T04:46:59 < jadew> in the end, they can fit two of my boards vertically
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2019-11-12T04:47:14 < bitmask> I know it goes through R8 but that doesnt change the fact that its different
2019-11-12T04:47:42 < bitmask> kaki so don't connect vcc?
2019-11-12T04:48:49 < sync> jadew: if they only do small panel runs they have to put your board into two runs
2019-11-12T04:48:59 < sync> andd then fish them out and regroup them
2019-11-12T04:49:03 < sync> more work for them
2019-11-12T04:49:07 < sync> thus you pay for that
2019-11-12T04:49:14 < jadew> sync, it's just like if I ordered 10, twice
2019-11-12T04:49:17 < jadew> you can actually do that
2019-11-12T04:49:23 < kakinull> bitmask: throw that datasheet
2019-11-12T04:49:26 < kakinull> url
2019-11-12T04:49:45 < bitmask> https://www.monolithicpower.com/en/documentview/productdocument/index/version/2/document_type/Datasheet/lang/en/sku/MP2315/document_id/513/
2019-11-12T04:49:48 < sync> of course, but then they don't have the hassle of waiting for both runs to complete
2019-11-12T04:50:17 < jadew> sync, they do, because they ship them all together
2019-11-12T04:50:38 < jadew> but almost a good point :P
2019-11-12T04:51:52 < kakinull> bitmask: layout is wrong
2019-11-12T04:52:00 < jadew> sync, I think their quoting system is broken
2019-11-12T04:52:14 < bitmask> what makes you sure?
2019-11-12T04:52:25 < jadew> all chinese fabs seem to use the same one - some of them have upgraded it
2019-11-12T04:52:26 < kakinull> wait
2019-11-12T04:52:38 < kakinull> R4
2019-11-12T04:53:01 < jadew> kakinull, R4 is in the right place
2019-11-12T04:53:27 < kakinull> so what is R8
2019-11-12T04:53:37 < kakinull> R4 is the pulldown mentioned
2019-11-12T04:53:39 < jadew> something that's not present in fig. 9
2019-11-12T04:53:44 < jadew> it's off of the schematic
2019-11-12T04:53:56 < jadew> those empty circles are connection points to some other circuit
2019-11-12T04:54:03 < jadew> so... probably part of that circuit
2019-11-12T04:54:08 < bitmask> oh, i think I thought it was something else
2019-11-12T04:56:55 < kakinull> R8 is a tweak
2019-11-12T04:56:59 < bitmask> I mean the way its set up its using R8 as the top of a voltage divider
2019-11-12T04:57:21 < bitmask> but not sure why its connected to vcc if its already charged
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2019-11-12T04:57:59 < kakinull> it's a tweak
2019-11-12T04:58:16 < jadew> I didn't read the datasheet, but what does AAM do?
2019-11-12T04:58:30 < kakinull> change between pulse skipping and constant mode
2019-11-12T04:58:32 < kakinull> or something
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2019-11-12T04:59:33 < kakinull> you don't need that pullup resistor bitmask
2019-11-12T04:59:40 < bitmask> ok
2019-11-12T05:00:47 < kakinull> I would have never noticed that
2019-11-12T05:01:29 < bitmask> I don't trust myself so I try to check everything
2019-11-12T05:01:48 < kakinull> good
2019-11-12T05:02:34 < bitmask> so vcc isnt connected to anything externally either right? just the bypass cap
2019-11-12T05:03:17 < bitmask> I think thats the last question I had
2019-11-12T05:03:41 < bitmask> I think I'm gonna add the 1n4148 diode on bst which I didnt already 
2019-11-12T05:03:54 < kakinull> if you do exactly like in typical application schematic
2019-11-12T05:03:58 < kakinull> you cannot fail
2019-11-12T05:04:25 < bitmask> yea its just those empty circles that bother me :P
2019-11-12T05:04:46 < kakinull> what page?
2019-11-12T05:04:57 < bitmask> 16
2019-11-12T05:05:03 < bitmask> the typical app schematics
2019-11-12T05:05:09 < kakinull> bootstrap circuit is a good idea
2019-11-12T05:05:25 < bitmask> I have the R and C for bst, just didnt have the diode
2019-11-12T05:05:35 < bitmask> i'll put it in
2019-11-12T05:05:42 < kakinull> planB if you need to squeeze some extra out of it for some reason
2019-11-12T05:05:51 < kakinull> you shouldn't need to
2019-11-12T05:06:39 < bitmask> nah, I figured I'm only gonna be charging a phone at 2.1A, then my circuit needs like 300mA, should be fine
2019-11-12T05:07:11 < kakinull> chill
2019-11-12T05:07:19 < kakinull> those empty balls ain't nothing
2019-11-12T05:07:23 < kakinull> *anything
2019-11-12T05:07:24 < bitmask> ok
2019-11-12T05:07:37 < kakinull> connect vin
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2019-11-12T05:10:57 < kakinull> page 13 about bootstrap diode
2019-11-12T05:11:48 < kakinull> and on page 14 you see why they left empty ball to vcc
2019-11-12T05:20:39 < jadew> https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2199800/The-river-DID-run-red-Residents-Chinese-city-left-baffled-Yangtze-turns-scarlet.html
2019-11-12T05:23:01 < kakinull> propper
2019-11-12T05:26:44 < kakinull> I wonder how hard it can be to see where the color is coming from
2019-11-12T05:27:06 < kakinull> like.. take a helicopter ride and follow the river upstream
2019-11-12T05:27:08 < jadew> it probably isn't hard at all
2019-11-12T05:27:38 < jadew> not to mention they can test the water
2019-11-12T05:27:49 < kakinull> it literally has indicator color in it
2019-11-12T05:28:10 < kakinull> assuming the color is not formed by a chemical process in the wter
2019-11-12T05:44:56 < dongs> hurrr.
2019-11-12T05:45:53 < dongs> so this shit is HD-SDI
2019-11-12T05:46:14 < dongs> and they expect it to work at 500m or something
2019-11-12T05:46:16 < dongs> thats not even in spec
2019-11-12T06:01:49 < kakinull> what are you talking about
2019-11-12T06:03:05 < jadew> so if I order 100 PCBs from elecrow, I get the same price as if I ordered 10 boards, 10 times
2019-11-12T06:04:42 < jadew> and if you add a batch with 10 boards and you say you want more than 2 of that batch it says that qty is not available
2019-11-12T06:04:50 < jadew> you basically have to upload the gerbers again :/
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2019-11-12T06:32:55 < bitmask> https://i.imgur.com/JCNAv8Y.png
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2019-11-12T06:36:20 < jadew> looks very pro
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2019-11-12T11:06:18 < karlp> aandrew: wtf would you buy a jlink for that doesn't even have swo pin?!
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2019-11-12T15:26:16 < ac_slater> hey guys, I'm have some embarrassing UART issues with the HAL. I enabled interrupts and in my HAL_UART_RxCpltCallback() I do some work then invoke HAL_UART_Receive_IT() again. I always call Receive_IT with a buffer of a single byte - which is probably the issue
2019-11-12T15:28:39 < ac_slater> looking in the HAL drivers, the static function UART_Receive_IT seems to increment past my one byte when more data is available
2019-11-12T15:29:21 < ac_slater> maybe I should make a buad-rate specific ring-buffer? Does the HAL even report how many bytes it CAN read on interrupt?
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2019-11-12T16:26:59 < aandrew> karlp: just to see what it actually did
2019-11-12T16:27:10 < aandrew> I have official and clone jlinks that work just fine, this was an impulse buy
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2019-11-12T16:28:26 < Steffanx> How many  stink v3 minis do you have aandrew ?
2019-11-12T16:28:39 < aandrew> just this one
2019-11-12T16:28:45 < aandrew> oh wait stlink v3 mini
2019-11-12T16:28:55 < Steffanx> Yeah
2019-11-12T16:29:04 < aandrew> I have a stlink v3, and I had a mini in my cart at digikey but when I went to order they were backordered so I just cancelled it
2019-11-12T16:29:16 < aandrew> no need for it and I *hate* that they fucked with the 2x5 header
2019-11-12T16:29:58 < Steffanx> It's a 2x7. Sucks hard indeed
2019-11-12T16:30:27 < karlp> seemd a really braindead change honestly.
2019-11-12T16:30:46 < karlp> lets add a fuckign uart, always. and break _allll_ the debug headers in the world
2019-11-12T16:32:12 < aandrew> yep. 
2019-11-12T16:32:37 < aandrew> I like having a UART available but just tack it on the end. 2x5 = standard, 2x6 or 2x7 = with uart
2019-11-12T16:32:40 < aandrew> no big deal
2019-11-12T16:32:47 < aandrew> but no, re-pin the entire fucking thing. idiiots.
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2019-11-12T16:45:20 < doomba> st be like "lets get rid of the headphone jack"
2019-11-12T17:07:50 < Cracki> wait... they deviated from the standard 2x5 cortex debug header?
2019-11-12T17:08:07 < Cracki> meh, squid cables will never die
2019-11-12T17:08:29 < Cracki> is it 0.1" at least?
2019-11-12T17:08:56 < Cracki> crap, that looks like .05"
2019-11-12T17:09:59 < karlp> .05 _is_ the stnadard cortex debug header for 2x5
2019-11-12T17:10:20 < Cracki> datasheet says the header IS compatible to standard 10 pin layout
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2019-11-12T17:10:28 < Cracki> 9.1.3 https://www.st.com/content/ccc/resource/technical/document/user_manual/group1/00/14/17/68/0f/01/48/01/DM00555046/files/DM00555046.pdf/jcr:content/translations/en.DM00555046.pdf
2019-11-12T17:11:01 < emeb> heh
2019-11-12T17:11:02 < Cracki> I hope the pins are ordered right
2019-11-12T17:11:24 < emeb> I built up a 14-pin to 6-pin STLINK connector last week.
2019-11-12T17:11:44 < emeb> cut the ribbon and soldered to a 6-pin 0.1" socket.
2019-11-12T17:11:46 < Cracki> those nice china stink clones have 0.1" but random layout, so I can just take dupont wires, plug them into a 2x5 housing, and assign as needed
2019-11-12T17:12:05 < Cracki> I don't wanna look for .05" dupont stuff
2019-11-12T17:12:20 < Cracki> yeah soldering, for those cables I'm not a fan of that
2019-11-12T17:12:37 < Cracki> I'd rather make an adapter pcb
2019-11-12T17:12:54 < emeb> the 1.27mm IDC cable is a PITA to unzip - half the time the insulation comes off the wire.
2019-11-12T17:13:53 < karlp> "compatible" as longas you have bare pin headers, no keying and boxes, and have enough space on the right side for the overhang, sure...
2019-11-12T17:14:09 < emeb> After the cable was built it works fine but V3 doesn't seem to be any faster than V2.1
2019-11-12T17:14:24 < Cracki> but they promised!
2019-11-12T17:14:26 < emeb> so tell me again how that F7 part helps?
2019-11-12T17:14:41 < Cracki> flashing is prolly limited by flash erase time
2019-11-12T17:14:44 < Cracki> mostly
2019-11-12T17:14:48 < emeb> Yeah.
2019-11-12T17:14:55 < Cracki> the improvements are in swd clock speed
2019-11-12T17:15:04 < emeb> Or else openocd is the bottleneck
2019-11-12T17:15:09 < Cracki> it's also faster on SWO
2019-11-12T17:15:39 < Cracki> wasn't swd clock a fixed fraction of target hclk?
2019-11-12T17:15:51 < Cracki> so you should only notice that on faster targets
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2019-11-12T17:16:07 < Cracki> (that it's even possible...)
2019-11-12T17:16:17 < emeb> well, this is on a 400MHz H7
2019-11-12T17:16:29 < Cracki> the stlink is a h7, sure
2019-11-12T17:16:39 < Cracki> I'm talking about target
2019-11-12T17:16:49 < emeb> yes - my target is an H7
2019-11-12T17:16:53 < Cracki> ah!
2019-11-12T17:17:09 < emeb> the STLINK is an F7
2019-11-12T17:17:12 < Cracki> and you could debug that with a v2.1 already?
2019-11-12T17:17:35 < Cracki> try cranking swo clock :P
2019-11-12T17:17:56 < zyp> huh, found a pcb component that has no other apparent purpose than to weigh it down
2019-11-12T17:18:14 < karlp> on what part?
2019-11-12T17:18:46 < zyp> I bought an AC3-capable DAC from aliexpress
2019-11-12T17:18:51 < emeb> yeah - v2.1 works fine on an H7
2019-11-12T17:19:07 < emeb> but I don't use SWO often.
2019-11-12T17:19:34 < zyp> opened it up to take a look, and on the PCB there's a metal piece in a plastic holder with three legs
2019-11-12T17:19:57 < emeb> zyp: maybe they're trying to control mechanical resonance.
2019-11-12T17:20:16 < emeb> or just make if feel heavier because heavy = good
2019-11-12T17:20:33 < zyp> the latter was my guess
2019-11-12T17:21:13 < emeb> ISTR a teardown a while back where they found actual bricks inside a piece of gear.
2019-11-12T17:21:15 < karlp> I got an android stb that had a metal weight in it for "heavy == good"
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2019-11-12T17:21:35 < karlp> because apple tv has the power supply inside, so any droid stb without it felt "light and hunky"
2019-11-12T17:21:43 < karlp> (even if you still had to power it...)
2019-11-12T17:21:47 < emeb> heh
2019-11-12T17:22:06 < zyp> I figure it's something like that
2019-11-12T17:22:11 < emeb> if you can't break a window with it then it's worthless.
2019-11-12T17:22:47 < zyp> https://www.aliexpress.com/i/32902971824.html <- looks like this
2019-11-12T17:23:17 < emeb> elistooop
2019-11-12T17:23:20 < emeb> sounds dutch
2019-11-12T17:23:35 < zyp> ah, then I blame Steffanx 
2019-11-12T17:23:39 < emeb> this!
2019-11-12T17:28:27 < Steffanx> Doesnt sound dutch at all.
2019-11-12T17:28:29 -!- con3 [~kvirc@154.119.40.183] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds]
2019-11-12T17:29:54 < Steffanx> We dont do more than two Os after each other
2019-11-12T17:30:11 < Steffanx> Stroopwafel. Not strooopwafel.
2019-11-12T17:30:45 < Steffanx> Elistrøøøp I turned it into nørsk for you, zyp.
2019-11-12T17:31:02 < Steffanx> -r
2019-11-12T17:31:29 < emeb> haha
2019-11-12T17:31:58 < emeb> I bet you can buy strooopwafel on aliexpress.
2019-11-12T17:32:27 < emeb> a Chinese man's idea of a Dutch man's treat.
2019-11-12T17:34:18 < zyp> okay, shit works (even without the weight)
2019-11-12T17:34:37 < emeb> but it just doesn't *feel* like it's working.
2019-11-12T17:35:25 < zyp> the dumb hdmi audio extractor I've been using doesn't support AC3, so when I've tried playing certain movies on the chromecast (via plex), they didn't get any sound
2019-11-12T17:35:45 < aandrew> ISTR? The ISTR I know is "it stands to reason" but that doesn't fit here
2019-11-12T17:35:47 < zyp> putting this thing on the spdif output of the audio extractor works
2019-11-12T17:36:01 < emeb> i seem to recall
2019-11-12T17:36:30 < zyp> then again, my tv probably also got a spdif output, so I might as well just throw out the extractor too now, maybe
2019-11-12T17:36:49 < emeb> zyp: so how do you hook that thing to a chromecast?
2019-11-12T17:37:39 < zyp> https://www.aliexpress.com/item/33002040061.html <- like I said, I've got one of these things
2019-11-12T17:37:48 < aandrew> I can buy stroopwafels in canada. I thought htis was just some silly meme but they're real
2019-11-12T17:40:04 < fenugrec> englishman, got your snowtires on
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2019-11-12T17:40:50 < englishman> fenugrec: lol yeah put them on last weekend
2019-11-12T17:40:51 < emeb> zyp: ah cool. so plex->chromecast->hdmi switch/extractor->elistrooooop->audio
2019-11-12T17:41:00 < zyp> yeah
2019-11-12T17:41:02 < emeb> we live in wondrous times
2019-11-12T17:41:20 < englishman> someone couldn't get up the 740 so the cops closed it
2019-11-12T17:41:21 < aandrew> heh
2019-11-12T17:41:38 < aandrew> I am still just upset that chromecast does not have bluetooth audio support for 1-2 headphones
2019-11-12T17:41:50 < zyp> that'd be convenient
2019-11-12T17:41:52 < fenugrec> bahahah
2019-11-12T17:42:00 < aandrew> don't want to do it on the TV or with an external dongle becuase I want the chromecast to properly delay the audio to keep video in sync
2019-11-12T17:44:37 < emeb> zyp: so plex is an online service - when you want to play local content you send it to them and they send it back to your chromecast?
2019-11-12T17:45:23 < zyp> no, I run it on my own server
2019-11-12T17:46:01 < emeb> ah, so they provide an application you can run locally.
2019-11-12T17:46:12 < zyp> yes
2019-11-12T17:47:25 < emeb> I wish that google just provided an easy way to shove stuff into a chromecast w/o extra drama.
2019-11-12T17:47:59 < zyp> there's plenty of ways, isn't there?
2019-11-12T17:48:29 < emeb> I'm sure there are lots of hacky foss tools that break on 80% of content.
2019-11-12T17:49:29 < emeb> the times I've looked it's either that, or sketchy malware sites that pretend to have a solution but are really just phishing.
2019-11-12T17:49:52 < zyp> IME stuff just works
2019-11-12T17:50:32 < Steffanx> Cant you force plex to transcode ac3 to something useful?
2019-11-12T17:52:15 < zyp> maybe, I tried poking around a bit without any immediate success and I figured I'd rather just spend a few dollars at aliexpress rather than waste more time
2019-11-12T17:52:25 < Steffanx> Awh.
2019-11-12T17:53:19 < zyp> people online talked about some xml edits and I don't have the patience for that
2019-11-12T17:54:00 < Steffanx> I recall doing that once. Not a success
2019-11-12T17:54:41 < Steffanx> Might also have been the audio issue
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2019-11-12T18:01:05 < emeb> huh. looks like VLC has an option to render to chromecast and it works fine on my system.
2019-11-12T18:01:09 < emeb> I stand corrected.
2019-11-12T18:01:42 < Steffanx> But that's not plex :P
2019-11-12T18:03:02 < emeb> meh - no interest in signing up w/ some subscription service. VLC is already installed.
2019-11-12T18:03:18 < Steffanx> It's free. No subscription
2019-11-12T18:03:26 < Steffanx> When you run it locally on a server
2019-11-12T18:03:41 < emeb> So what's their angle - why do they give it away?
2019-11-12T18:04:09  * emeb is a suspicious old fart
2019-11-12T18:04:30 < Steffanx> They provide services to make things easier. Also in the cloud stuff iirc
2019-11-12T18:04:56 < Steffanx> And have access to your server over the web and stuff (not sure about the details, never bothered)
2019-11-12T18:06:58 < Steffanx> There was some privacy fuzz a while back. But I forgot about the details :(
2019-11-12T18:07:23 < emeb> ah. so it's a "Here's a lump of software you can use for free. If you want it to be easier and/or functional then pay up" model.
2019-11-12T18:08:23 < emeb> and probably a "also, we're collecting data on everything that passes thru this software"
2019-11-12T18:09:29  * emeb wonders exactly what's in that wad of data his phone sends to google whenever the Sync icon appears
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2019-11-12T18:14:39 < bitmask> https://i.imgur.com/JCNAv8Y.png
2019-11-12T18:15:54 < emeb> weird connectors
2019-11-12T18:15:59 < emeb> such fat wires
2019-11-12T18:16:42 < bitmask> yea, I couldnt find anything I liked
2019-11-12T18:16:56 < bitmask> they will be fine though
2019-11-12T18:17:54 < emeb> so what's it do?
2019-11-12T18:18:23 < jadew> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p8PEejozFL0
2019-11-12T18:18:30 < bitmask> heated jacket
2019-11-12T18:19:29 -!- sterna1 [~Adium@h-90-120.A137.corp.bahnhof.se] has quit [Quit: Leaving.]
2019-11-12T18:20:01 < emeb> toasty
2019-11-12T18:20:45 < zyp> either the connectors are overspecced or those transistors are underspecced
2019-11-12T18:21:04 < bitmask> connectors are overspecced, they are rated for 30A
2019-11-12T18:21:08 < bitmask> I'm using at most 1/10th that
2019-11-12T18:21:11 < BrainDamage> hatred jacket
2019-11-12T18:24:01 -!- tprrt [~tprrt@217.114.204.178] has quit [Quit: leaving]
2019-11-12T18:28:01 < karlp> I was like, "why do the leds have arrows on them, what are they trying to point at?"
2019-11-12T18:28:58 < emeb> Ouch - getting to hot here. gotta reset my jacket.
2019-11-12T18:29:13 < karlp> all that neatly arranged silk, but nothing for the usb ic in the middle of the bottom?
2019-11-12T18:29:33 < karlp> or the two big input fets?
2019-11-12T18:36:56 < bitmask> yea I guess I should add those
2019-11-12T18:37:44 < bitmask> just figured there was zero chance of screwing that up
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2019-11-12T18:46:19 < Steffanx> Such use of the usb logo. Better get your usb device tested/certified, bitmask :P
2019-11-12T18:47:33 < bitmask> haha right
2019-11-12T18:49:38 -!- drzacek [~drzacek@b941c009.business.dg-w.de] has quit [Quit: Leaving]
2019-11-12T18:50:12 < emeb> here come the lawyers
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2019-11-12T18:58:59 < Laurenceb> https://pbs.twimg.com/media/EJJhnaMU0AASexK.jpg:large
2019-11-12T19:00:23 < Steffanx> Sex.
2019-11-12T19:01:35 < Laurenceb> https://pbs.twimg.com/media/EJH7xtYW4AAq56-.jpg:large
2019-11-12T19:09:51 < aandrew> what the fuck Laurenceb 
2019-11-12T19:10:37 < bitmask> oh noes! its snowing
2019-11-12T19:10:40 < bitmask> im late
2019-11-12T19:11:16 < Laurenceb> tfw its Tuesday
2019-11-12T19:31:43 -!- bitmask [~bitmask@c-73-215-237-27.hsd1.nj.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: Gone to sleep...]
2019-11-12T19:38:12 < jadew> amazon prime sucks in here
2019-11-12T19:38:52 < jadew> they have a total of about 50 sci-fi movies and tv shows
2019-11-12T19:39:49 < jadew> there are like 5 things I haven't seen from that entire list and 4 of them seem to be garbage from the thumbnail alone
2019-11-12T19:40:35 < BrainDamage> I wish amazon prime would be just shipping
2019-11-12T19:40:47 < aandrew> I refuse to watch amazon prime because they won't let me fling to chromecast
2019-11-12T19:40:49 < aandrew> so fuck 'em
2019-11-12T19:40:54 < BrainDamage> the more shows and music they add the more it costs
2019-11-12T19:40:59 < jadew> aandrew, you can cast to chromecast
2019-11-12T19:41:03 < jadew> works here
2019-11-12T19:41:16 < BrainDamage> it went 10 bucks -> 30 bucks over the past 3 years
2019-11-12T19:41:18 < aandrew> jadew: hm? the app doesn't allow you to use chromecast. firetv? sure but not chromecast
2019-11-12T19:41:33 < BrainDamage> and it was fixed at 10 bucks for 5 years before
2019-11-12T19:41:34 < jadew> BrainDamage, I think I'm paying 5/mo
2019-11-12T19:41:49 < BrainDamage> mine's per year
2019-11-12T19:42:04 < jadew> aandrew, I just used it this morning
2019-11-12T19:42:31 < aandrew> from a phone or using chrome browser
2019-11-12T19:42:40 < jadew> from a phone
2019-11-12T19:42:45 < aandrew> hm
2019-11-12T19:42:53 < aandrew> I'm going to have to check it again
2019-11-12T19:42:55 < jadew> maybe it's time to update the app?
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2019-11-12T21:42:41 < kakipr0> pcbs ordered?
2019-11-12T21:53:16 -!- Jybz [~jibz@2a01:e0a:198:e110:4a51:b7ff:fe84:99e6] has joined ##stm32
2019-11-12T21:56:24 < catphish> whose though?
2019-11-12T21:57:33 < kakipr0> yes
2019-11-12T21:58:11 < catphish> someone assembled my prototype batch for me today :)
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2019-11-12T22:32:52 < Steffanx> 15 screws kakipr0?
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2019-11-12T22:43:14 < kakipr0> wut
2019-11-12T22:43:55 < catphish> touche
2019-11-12T22:46:13 < kakipr0> suddenly steff starts to talk about screws
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2019-11-12T22:48:31 < ac_slater> hey guys. I have a STM32F4 which is a SPI master. I have SPI slave that has completely different latching/timing/etc properties than the STM32 and I don't know how to adapt
2019-11-12T22:48:40 < ac_slater> (getting some screenshots of the manuals)
2019-11-12T22:51:05 < kakipr0> what do you mean by different?
2019-11-12T22:51:11 < kakipr0> than stm32
2019-11-12T22:51:47 < kakipr0> I assume you can set mode and polarity of SPI in every single stm32
2019-11-12T22:52:04 < ac_slater> yea sorry, my bus is only a single master (STM32F4) and a single slave MSP430
2019-11-12T22:52:20 < ac_slater> here is the SPI timing diagram for the MSP430 https://i.imgur.com/mP4osRP.png
2019-11-12T22:52:44 < ac_slater> and here is the SPI timing for the STM32f4 https://i.imgur.com/mUQmWst.png
2019-11-12T22:53:20 < ac_slater> my slave is set to Pol=1 Phase=1 and I can't change it
2019-11-12T22:54:27 < ac_slater> I can make it A LITTLE stable but I'm missing bytes and having some clock syncing issues
2019-11-12T22:55:08 < ac_slater> my STM32F4 is configured via the HAL and is simple, running at 1.5MHz clock with 8 bit transfers
2019-11-12T22:56:45 < ac_slater> I've tried 1 edge and 2 edge phase and permuted almost every option. 
2019-11-12T22:56:56 < ac_slater> I think my devices are simply not compatible
2019-11-12T22:57:03 < ac_slater> kakipr0: ^ 
2019-11-12T22:58:35 < kakipr0> unlikely ac:
2019-11-12T22:58:38 < kakipr0> ac_slater
2019-11-12T22:58:52 < Steffanx> i thought we were asking random questions kakipr0. You join and ask some question... 
2019-11-12T22:59:10 < ac_slater> kakipr0: right, I've never heard SPI devices being incompatible
2019-11-12T22:59:13 < kakipr0> oh
2019-11-12T22:59:32 < Steffanx> and instead of going "wut" . i thought: let's go with the flow
2019-11-12T22:59:50 < kakipr0> you nailed it
2019-11-12T23:00:55 < kakipr0> ac_slater: how fast are you using it?
2019-11-12T23:01:22 < ac_slater> kakipr0: the data is very low, 20-50 bytes / sec
2019-11-12T23:01:34 < kakipr0> the frequency
2019-11-12T23:01:37 < ac_slater> but I've tried driving the clock at many different frequency
2019-11-12T23:01:43 < qyx> he said 1.5M
2019-11-12T23:01:56 < ac_slater> frequencies. * currently trying 1.5M but tried doing some weird things like 20M
2019-11-12T23:01:59 < ac_slater> or 250K
2019-11-12T23:02:00 < qyx> did you try scoping it?
2019-11-12T23:02:27 < ac_slater> qyx: I just received a salaea analyzer today, thinking about the process of making it useful 
2019-11-12T23:02:49 < ac_slater> I'm assuming worst case it's like the datasheets say
2019-11-12T23:03:07 < ac_slater> I couldnt find any adjustment vectors in the STM32 driver/register interface so I'm not even sure what I can doo
2019-11-12T23:03:09 < ac_slater> do  *
2019-11-12T23:04:03 < kakipr0> RM
2019-11-12T23:04:59 < kakipr0> reference manual
2019-11-12T23:07:00 < ac_slater> I was hoping there were some timing adjustments there
2019-11-12T23:07:28 < ac_slater> but the SPI control registers are pretty limited for modifying timing
2019-11-12T23:08:03 < kakipr0> is it a thing? to adjust timings?
2019-11-12T23:08:29 < kakipr0> I thought CPOL and CPHA are all you need
2019-11-12T23:08:32 < qyx> what timing is wrong?
2019-11-12T23:09:19 < ac_slater> kakipr0: 
2019-11-12T23:09:35 < ac_slater> kakipr0: I don't see any combo of CPOL and CPHA on the STM32 that matches the MSP430
2019-11-12T23:10:45 < ac_slater> qyx: you're right, there might not be a timing issue on the SPI state machines. I'm seeing some offset data so something is wrong
2019-11-12T23:11:15 < ac_slater> kakipr0: also, on AVR32, you can add nanosecond delays after each received bit, for example
2019-11-12T23:11:37 < kakipr0> pha is wrong?
2019-11-12T23:12:08 < kakipr0> I mean only difference I see by quick look is relative position of data line samping
2019-11-12T23:12:54 < kakipr0> in another one it's in dead middle and in another it's just before data line state is changed
2019-11-12T23:13:42 < kakipr0> dead center*
2019-11-12T23:13:51 < ac_slater> kakipr0: right, I'm wondering if that's making my data a bit offset (missing bytes, etc) and how to fix it
2019-11-12T23:15:00 < kakipr0> oh but
2019-11-12T23:15:21 < kakipr0> if you look closely in stm32 capture strobe is in middle
2019-11-12T23:15:52 < kakipr0> and msp430 rx sample point is in middle too
2019-11-12T23:15:57 < kakipr0> no difference there
2019-11-12T23:16:24 < ac_slater> kakipr0: you're right
2019-11-12T23:16:26 < ac_slater> damn
2019-11-12T23:16:34 < ac_slater> well, I guess that does look sane
2019-11-12T23:16:49 < kakipr0> but msp430 doesn't have tx shift out point marked
2019-11-12T23:17:23 < kakipr0> connect your saleae
2019-11-12T23:17:45 < ac_slater> kakipr0: I think ypu're mistaken, the STM32 doesnt have the TX shift
2019-11-12T23:18:05 < ac_slater> yea I'll return with some saleae captures
2019-11-12T23:18:16 < ac_slater> I'm glad you guys are thinking it's not a lost cause
2019-11-12T23:18:21 < kakipr0> I'm just rambling
2019-11-12T23:18:26 < Posterdati> hi
2019-11-12T23:19:39 < Posterdati> using HAL to program stm32f407, is ADC enabled (turned on) just using HAL_ADC_Init() ?
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2019-11-12T23:22:03 < kakipr0> what little I know about stm32 hal I assume that init functions invoke a user/cubemx generated subroutine to set up certain configuration
2019-11-12T23:22:31 < ac_slater> Posterdati: you should look at the STM32F4 reference manual, it has a init routing
2019-11-12T23:22:34 < ac_slater> routine * 
2019-11-12T23:23:18 < ac_slater> Posterdati: but generating a project with CubeMX will give you the whole init path: clocks, interrupt path, gpio config, etc
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2019-11-12T23:24:13 < kakipr0> https://www.st.com/content/ccc/resource/technical/document/user_manual/2f/71/ba/b8/75/54/47/cf/DM00105879.pdf/files/DM00105879.pdf/jcr:content/translations/en.DM00105879.pdf HAL F4
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2019-11-12T23:33:27  * karlp signs up for tip trans
2019-11-12T23:33:30 < karlp> ok, now what to buy
2019-11-12T23:34:36 < karlp> ac_slater: I take it you never worked out a way of running the msp430 in 0,0 to avoid the errata altogether then?
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2019-11-12T23:36:55 < karlp> heh, 0.42" oled, never seen one so cute before: https://www.aliexpress.com/item/32832293333.html
2019-11-12T23:40:05 < kakipr0> perfect for single digit display
2019-11-12T23:40:31 < kakipr0> rotate it vertically
2019-11-12T23:41:09 < kakipr0> or animated whole screen bargraph
2019-11-12T23:43:17 < qyx> karlp: you can get such oleds on buydisplay.com
2019-11-12T23:43:59 < qyx> quite fast delivery, ref sch included, all datasheets available
2019-11-12T23:44:06 < qyx> paypalable
2019-11-12T23:45:25 < karlp> yeah, I don't really need them at all, just thought it was cute :)
2019-11-12T23:46:01 < kakipr0> I have some 20x2 oled character display
2019-11-12T23:46:08 < kakipr0> really nice
2019-11-12T23:46:15 < kakipr0> such contrast
2019-11-12T23:46:24 < kakipr0> downside is the price
2019-11-12T23:46:27 < kakipr0> 20eur or so
2019-11-12T23:51:12 < Steffanx> Saving money :P
2019-11-12T23:52:13 < kakipr0> it's not to any particular project
2019-11-12T23:52:18 < kakipr0> I just wanted to see it
2019-11-12T23:52:22 < kakipr0> it was nice
2019-11-12T23:53:02 -!- fenugrec [~fenugrec@24.105.71.66] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds]
2019-11-12T23:55:16 < englishman> karlp: didja see my sample boards
2019-11-12T23:55:26 < englishman> they are very bright and the res is awesome
2019-11-12T23:55:30 < englishman> I like it
2019-11-12T23:58:25 < karlp> I don't think I did, no.
2019-11-12T23:58:30 < karlp> love the reading on this: https://github.com/jnk0le/RFM7x-lib
--- Day changed Wed Nov 13 2019
2019-11-13T00:03:32 < kakipr0> what you think of tree structuring BSRs?
2019-11-13T00:03:57 < kakipr0> running paraller BSRs and only latching data to one of them at time
2019-11-13T00:04:07 < kakipr0> instead of chaining stupidly long chains
2019-11-13T00:04:55 < kakipr0> every branch is clocking the same data in and out but only one of them is latched to outputs
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2019-11-13T00:06:34 < kakipr0>  I mean it's possible
2019-11-13T00:06:43 < kakipr0> but have you done it?
2019-11-13T00:11:05 < qyx> I parse the rfm7x text as "don't buy those"
2019-11-13T00:13:56 < Laurenceb> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j4PTf7LgsIE
2019-11-13T00:15:18 < Laurenceb> arduino convention
2019-11-13T00:17:45 < kakipr0> opinion of isolating spi signals out of non-powered blocks using pmos transistors?
2019-11-13T00:18:23 < kakipr0> is it "you are doing something wrong" ?
2019-11-13T00:20:49 < kakipr0> yes
2019-11-13T00:21:00 < kakipr0> I should be using buffer chip
2019-11-13T00:21:10 < kakipr0> not discrete transistors
2019-11-13T00:21:20 < zyp> uh
2019-11-13T00:21:24 < zyp> into or out of?
2019-11-13T00:21:44 < kakipr0> I plan to use paraller BSRs
2019-11-13T00:22:06 < kakipr0> only one of them is permanently powered
2019-11-13T00:31:12 < kakipr0> driving current to unpowered bsrs through series resistors is unideal
2019-11-13T00:31:17 < kakipr0> sub-ideal
2019-11-13T00:40:43 < kakipr0> cheapest option to add a bulk(1MB or so) of NOR flash to f107?
2019-11-13T00:41:20 < kakipr0> "bulk"
2019-11-13T00:44:02 < Cracki> spi flash?
2019-11-13T00:44:31 < Cracki> sd card or plain old ic
2019-11-13T00:44:58 < kakipr0> sd card is not nor
2019-11-13T00:45:10 < Cracki> ah you're particular about the type of flash
2019-11-13T00:46:04 < Cracki> aliex gives me results for "nor flash ic"
2019-11-13T00:46:28 < Cracki> some of those appear suitably sized
2019-11-13T00:47:05 < karlp> qyx: that was the interpretation I went with as well :)
2019-11-13T00:47:40 < Cracki> even on a nice breakout board https://www.aliexpress.com/item/33019324039.html
2019-11-13T00:47:52 < kakipr0> fuk bobs
2019-11-13T00:47:53 < karlp> kakipr0: 8MB is probably the sweet spot for spi nor, 
2019-11-13T00:48:08 < karlp> but are you sure that's what you want to be doing?
2019-11-13T00:48:20 < kakipr0> yes W25 I have seend W25 somewhere
2019-11-13T00:48:39 < kakipr0> karlp: add placeholders
2019-11-13T00:48:43 < Cracki> send bob and ...
2019-11-13T00:49:10 < kakipr0> vegena
2019-11-13T00:49:42 < kakipr0> wtf I open ali and it shows example search word "hijab scarf"
2019-11-13T00:49:52 < kakipr0> I have been profiled
2019-11-13T00:50:12 < kakipr0> as muslim woman
2019-11-13T00:51:32 < kakipr0> winbond yes
2019-11-13T00:52:15 < kakipr0> chip inside every router and modem
2019-11-13T00:54:36 < kakipr0> those W25s whisper at rate of 133mhz
2019-11-13T00:56:39 < Steffanx> I get ATV front suspension. Lol
2019-11-13T00:56:55 < Steffanx> At the alisearch
2019-11-13T00:57:28 < kakipr0> steff is 4x4 dude
2019-11-13T00:57:54 < kakipr0> or sand dyne big jumps dude
2019-11-13T00:58:52 < Steffanx> Yeah
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2019-11-13T00:59:53 < kakipr0> recommend 2x4bit buffers with 2enable lines
2019-11-13T01:00:10 < kakipr0> low power consumption and rather fast too
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2019-11-13T01:09:08 < Steffanx> Wlcm
2019-11-13T01:10:22 < kakipr0> but actually
2019-11-13T01:10:42 < kakipr0> what is output state of BSR when it's unpowered?
2019-11-13T01:10:51 < zyp> 0
2019-11-13T01:10:53 < kakipr0> I think it's low
2019-11-13T01:10:59 < kakipr0> that can be a problem
2019-11-13T01:11:03 < kakipr0> for active low inputs
2019-11-13T01:11:23 < zyp> most digital pins has internal TVS diodes to GND and VDD
2019-11-13T01:11:26 < kakipr0> yes
2019-11-13T01:11:29 < kakipr0> I just realized
2019-11-13T01:11:37 < zyp> when VDD is at 0V, it'll also clamp the signals
2019-11-13T01:11:42 < kakipr0> maybe I don't powerswitch it
2019-11-13T01:11:56 < kakipr0> 70uA max phff
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2019-11-13T01:36:39  * catphish wonders how many boards he has to sell before he can write off development costs as legitimate business expenses
2019-11-13T01:40:26 < kakipr0> can you tell me example how to use hold pin of *25*** flash chips?
2019-11-13T01:40:46 < kakipr0> at25, w25 etc.
2019-11-13T01:52:16 < kakipr0> "The /HOLD pin allows the device to be paused while it is actively selected."
2019-11-13T01:59:06 < kakipr0> why?
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2019-11-13T02:59:29 < zyp> «To temporarily stop serial communication with SPI flash memory without resetting
2019-11-13T02:59:32 < zyp> the device.»
2019-11-13T03:00:38 < zyp> http://ww1.microchip.com/downloads/en/devicedoc/s71271_04.pdf <- page 6 here describes it well
2019-11-13T03:02:19 < zyp> basically if you're in the middle of an operation and you want to talk to another SPI device, you can assert HOLD instead of deasserting CE to have it release MISO
2019-11-13T03:02:42 < zyp> then when you're done talking to the other device, you deassert HOLD and continue from where you left off
2019-11-13T03:04:14 < zyp> I'm not familiar with the protocol for these things, but I assume there's some slow write or erase operations or something that would get cancelled if you deassert CE before they're done
2019-11-13T03:15:21 < kakipr0> oh
2019-11-13T03:15:56 < kakipr0> zyp: do you ever do anything with wp?
2019-11-13T03:17:24 < kakipr0> but to pull it up
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2019-11-13T04:25:14 < aandrew> jadew: yep prime video does now support chromecast
2019-11-13T04:28:15 < jadew> aandrew, glad it works
2019-11-13T04:28:29 < jadew> they have very little content for Romania :/
2019-11-13T04:29:14 < aandrew> I’m not sure that I’ll watch anything there but at least it’s now available
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2019-11-13T04:36:00 < jadew> I'm thinking of making a manual pick and place
2019-11-13T04:36:29 < jadew> not sure what to do about the feeders tho
2019-11-13T04:39:20 < jadew> I'm surprised china isn't all over this
2019-11-13T04:46:18 < kakinull> id get manual placement device
2019-11-13T04:46:33 < jadew> kakinull, what do you mean?
2019-11-13T04:46:54 < kakinull> such device that I control by hand
2019-11-13T04:47:03 < kakinull> no electricity
2019-11-13T04:47:11 < jadew> yeah, that's what I want too
2019-11-13T04:47:13 < kakinull> maybe vacuum pump
2019-11-13T04:47:23 < jadew> with vacuum pump
2019-11-13T04:47:46 < jadew> example: https://smtcaddy.com/
2019-11-13T04:48:00 < jadew> but that thing is rather expensive
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2019-11-13T04:49:26 < kakinull> yes
2019-11-13T04:49:29 < kakinull> made is usa
2019-11-13T04:50:02 < jadew> there are much simpler designs out there
2019-11-13T04:50:19 < jadew> and I don't know why I can't find kits on aliexpress
2019-11-13T04:50:33 < jadew> something like that at an affordable price would sell like hot bread
2019-11-13T04:50:33 < kakinull> looks quality though
2019-11-13T04:50:48 < jadew> yeah, that one seems really nice
2019-11-13T04:51:48 < kakinull> tell me when you find nice under 1k
2019-11-13T04:52:44 < jadew> https://www.thingiverse.com/thing:2815833
2019-11-13T04:53:10 < kakinull> no competition
2019-11-13T04:55:17 < jadew> probably better than empty hand
2019-11-13T04:55:32 < kakinull> doubt
2019-11-13T04:56:27 < kakinull> I don't see any ergonomic way to operate that
2019-11-13T04:56:42 < jadew> you rest your hand on the blue thing
2019-11-13T04:57:04 < jadew> it's in the wrong orientation there
2019-11-13T04:57:19 < jadew> the second picture is how you would use it
2019-11-13T04:57:22 < jadew> but it's very small
2019-11-13T04:57:31 < jadew> you'd want one at least twice as big in both directions I think
2019-11-13T04:58:13 < kakinull> well definitelly
2019-11-13T04:58:16 < kakinull> that is toy size
2019-11-13T04:59:40 < jadew> https://blog.jayvee-store.com/2017/06/26/manual-pick-and-place-machine/
2019-11-13T05:00:30 < kakinull> looks more like it
2019-11-13T05:01:19 < kakinull> I think I need some stencil aparatus jadew
2019-11-13T05:01:24 < kakinull> can you recommend anything
2019-11-13T05:01:33 < kakinull> spreding setup
2019-11-13T05:01:42 < jadew> like... pro stuff?
2019-11-13T05:01:52 < kakinull> no
2019-11-13T05:02:09 < jadew> I just print a custom frame for my boards and tape the stencil to it
2019-11-13T05:02:17 < kakinull> but better than piece of tape*
2019-11-13T05:02:44 < jadew> then you just put the board in there, lower the stencil over the board, swipe, raise stencil, remove board, next
2019-11-13T05:02:58 < kakinull> oh
2019-11-13T05:03:01 < jadew> *rise
2019-11-13T05:03:02 < kakinull> frame
2019-11-13T05:03:04 < kakinull> yes
2019-11-13T05:03:13 < kakinull> made of pcb?
2019-11-13T05:03:18 < jadew> no, I print it
2019-11-13T05:03:29 < kakinull> 3d?
2019-11-13T05:03:32 < jadew> yeah
2019-11-13T05:03:44 < kakinull> well
2019-11-13T05:03:47 < jadew> I design it to fit the PCB just right and make it a bit lower in height
2019-11-13T05:03:53 < kakinull> next time I order pcb
2019-11-13T05:03:55 < kakinull> fame
2019-11-13T05:04:04 < kakinull> frame
2019-11-13T05:04:06 < kakinull> nice
2019-11-13T05:04:18 < jadew> right, I guess you could order it too :)
2019-11-13T05:04:48 < jadew> I then store it together with the stencil (I never remove the tape that holds the stencil in place)
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2019-11-13T15:45:28 < kakinull> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1W1_8IV8uhA
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2019-11-13T16:07:35 < aandrew> jadew> I'm thinking of making a manual pick and place
2019-11-13T16:07:36 < aandrew> they exist
2019-11-13T16:07:59 < aandrew> basically an arm support and a vacuum pick
2019-11-13T16:08:38 < aandrew> ah I see you've already discussed it
2019-11-13T16:09:18 < Cracki> that's almost a rework station... just needs some chip placement guidance
2019-11-13T16:09:46 < Cracki> for those big balled fuckers where you have trouble eyeballing it
2019-11-13T16:10:40 < BrainDamage> it already has a camera, just needs machine vision
2019-11-13T16:10:53 < BrainDamage> detecting the pattern on the silkscreen and the chip
2019-11-13T16:11:41 < aandrew> BIG BALLED FUCKERS III
2019-11-13T16:11:46 < aandrew> sounds like gaypr0nz
2019-11-13T16:12:49 < Cracki> http://www.medika.kiev.ua/image/cache/data/medik/foto%20tovar/veterenaria/%D0%A9%D0%91-50(2)-600x600.jpg
2019-11-13T16:12:55 < Lux> is there some convention on how pcb footprints should be made so the pcba doesn't mess them up ?
2019-11-13T16:13:03 < Lux> like pin1 markings etc
2019-11-13T16:13:27 < Cracki> they might not even look at the pcb
2019-11-13T16:13:43 < Cracki> they go by placement files, i.e. centroids and rotations
2019-11-13T16:14:31 < Cracki> the challenge for cheap pcba is to give customers a way to check rotation and make sure it's right. there can be mismatches between how someone designed his footprint and how the component comes out of the reel
2019-11-13T16:14:42 < aandrew> Lux: not really, they go by the centroid files for rotation, and use fiducials for registration. some can use pads/features but nobody uses silk
2019-11-13T16:15:01 < Laurenceb> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VbnjObIsfsE&feature=youtu.be
2019-11-13T16:15:25 < Lux> aandrew: centroid means like pin 1 is top left and rotation is in the positioning file ?
2019-11-13T16:15:56 < aandrew> I've always taken centroid as the combination of position and orientation
2019-11-13T16:16:53 < aandrew> not having your footprint rotated to match what the machine will pick up from the tape/tray is probably the biggest thing assembly houses fight with
2019-11-13T16:17:07 < aandrew> one of the bigger parts of setup IIRC
2019-11-13T16:17:14 < Lux> yeah i can imagine
2019-11-13T16:17:28 < Lux> but is there some convention on what the 0 rotation should be ?
2019-11-13T16:17:52 < Cracki> centroid means center of component
2019-11-13T16:17:57 < Lux> x/y being the part center makes sense, but as far as i get it the orientation can probably be arbitraty
2019-11-13T16:18:05 < Cracki> no convention except how it sits in the reel
2019-11-13T16:18:05 < Lux> *arbitrary
2019-11-13T16:18:19 < Cracki> so you better check how mfg puts them in reels
2019-11-13T16:18:26 < Cracki> (and which way the holes on the reel go)
2019-11-13T16:18:53 < Lux> heh
2019-11-13T16:19:08 < Cracki> canonical is tape comes from left, components picked up, empty tape exits right
2019-11-13T16:19:40 < aandrew> yes but orientation of polarized components on tape I don't think has a convention
2019-11-13T16:19:50 < aandrew> the datasheet dictates how the parts are oriented in the reel
2019-11-13T16:19:51 < Cracki> right, mfg-specific
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2019-11-13T16:26:39 < karlp> and then you end up being "small run" and getting hand soldered by monkeys who looked at neither the silk nor the manuf files
2019-11-13T16:33:25 < aandrew> hm, digikey is failing me. is there not 2mm pitch housings like there are for 2.54mm?
2019-11-13T16:34:12 < aandrew> there we go
2019-11-13T16:34:24 < aandrew> https://www.digikey.ca/product-detail/en/hirose-electric-co-ltd/DF11-18DS-2C/H2026-ND/141274 that wasn't so fucking ahrd
2019-11-13T16:34:41 < aandrew> that's like IDC though
2019-11-13T16:35:27 < aandrew> ok df11-18ds-2c looks like it might be it
2019-11-13T16:36:23 < aandrew> oh that is that part, wtf that looks like it has the contacts already n it
2019-11-13T16:41:24 < aandrew> yeah fuck crimping those df11s, I remember them now
2019-11-13T16:41:28 < aandrew> premade cables it is
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2019-11-13T17:02:07 < Cracki> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0sR1rU3gLzQ
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2019-11-13T17:58:04 < qyx> is this legit? https://i.stack.imgur.com/Ag4JL.png
2019-11-13T17:58:18 < qyx> reverse polarity and OV protection
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2019-11-13T18:11:35 < fenugrec> qyx, bss84 max Vgs probably +-20V, so VIN>20V will kill it
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2019-11-13T18:22:28 < aandrew> qyx: that's what I use
2019-11-13T18:22:34 < aandrew> that's out of an ST app note
2019-11-13T18:22:44 < aandrew> er no, a cypress dev board
2019-11-13T18:23:29 < aandrew> M1 and M3 need to be sized for full power, and the value of R1 is really dependent on the switching characteristics of M4 so you need to test across temperature
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2019-11-13T18:37:02 < karlp> what voltage do you choose for the zener?
2019-11-13T18:37:17 < karlp> the exact overvoltage limit you want? or something else
2019-11-13T18:37:17 < bitmask> 24V
2019-11-13T18:37:31 < karlp> not you :)
2019-11-13T18:37:34 < bitmask> :)
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2019-11-13T18:39:46 < kakipr0> why is EEE LPI requested with gpio input to phy?
2019-11-13T18:40:08 < kakipr0> and not via management bus but pin is required
2019-11-13T18:40:24 < bitmask> why is it so hard to find the right eyelets in brass so I can solder to them
2019-11-13T18:41:03 < qyx> fenugrec: I know, thats only a generic circuit I found on interwebs
2019-11-13T18:43:04 < qyx> aandrew: great
2019-11-13T18:44:01 < qyx> I am not sure what happens if the voltage is increasing slowly under load
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2019-11-13T18:44:34 < qyx> M3 might not survive the linear region
2019-11-13T18:46:55 < aandrew> karlp: well the idea is when the voltage across the zener reaches Vz it will start ot clamp and then the gate that it is connected to will start to turn on, causing the bigger mosfet to shut off
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2019-11-13T18:47:20 < aandrew> so you need select Vz and the resistors so that the mosfet starts to open up at the right voltage for you
2019-11-13T18:56:29 < BrainDamage> zener off: Vs = Vin, Vg=Vin, Vs-Vg = 0 -> mos off, zener on: Vs = vin, Vg = Vz, Vs-Vg=Vin-Vz, if Vin-Vz>Vgs mos on, so the condition can also be written as Vin>Vgz+Vz
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2019-11-13T19:08:08 < aandrew> BrainDamage: it's a PMOS, so mos *on* when vin < vz
2019-11-13T19:08:16 < aandrew> er no off
2019-11-13T19:08:18 < aandrew> sorry
2019-11-13T19:10:20 < qyx> turnoff is probably not fast enough to prevent transients
2019-11-13T19:11:00 < qyx> so spark gap, some inductance, tvs on the input
2019-11-13T19:11:08 < qyx> this circuit in the middle
2019-11-13T19:11:21 < qyx> and another tvs on the output?
2019-11-13T19:12:09 < qyx> to absorb the peak until the mosfet is turn off
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2019-11-13T19:14:32 < kakipr0> aandrew: should I leave a testpoint for pps output?
2019-11-13T19:14:39 < kakipr0> is there any use for it
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2019-11-13T19:14:54 < aandrew> kakipr0: are you going to be doing IEEE1588?
2019-11-13T19:15:12 < kakipr0> I will have phy that doesn't do IEEE1588
2019-11-13T19:15:15 < aandrew> qyx: right this is not for spikes, it's for overvoltage
2019-11-13T19:15:18 < kakipr0> fixed to the board
2019-11-13T19:15:21 < aandrew> kakipr0: will you be doing IEEE1588
2019-11-13T19:15:28 < kakipr0> idk
2019-11-13T19:15:34 < aandrew> qyx: I'd put TVS on input
2019-11-13T19:15:39 < aandrew> not output
2019-11-13T19:15:43 < aandrew> protect the devices here too
2019-11-13T19:15:50 < kakipr0> but phy is still dp83822
2019-11-13T19:15:56 < aandrew> kakipr0: if you're not interested in doing PTP/IEEE1588 there's no point
2019-11-13T19:16:01 < aandrew> doesn't matter
2019-11-13T19:16:10 < aandrew> you don't need a 1588-capable PHY to do 1588
2019-11-13T19:16:10 < kakipr0> is there any use even if I would do PTP?
2019-11-13T19:16:19 < aandrew> kakipr0: no
2019-11-13T19:16:33 < kakipr0> I can repurpose that pin ten
2019-11-13T19:16:34 < kakipr0> then
2019-11-13T19:16:44 < aandrew> it's literally just the rollover flag from the MAC's 1588 timer core
2019-11-13T19:18:01 < kakipr0> I need to figure out oscillator again
2019-11-13T19:18:28 < kakipr0> because I intend to have a mode of operation where mcu is shut down but phy is powered
2019-11-13T19:18:58 < kakipr0> but I don't have a clock that would be active in that case
2019-11-13T19:19:13 < aandrew> kakipr0: so you'll need to give the PHY its own osc/crystal
2019-11-13T19:19:18 < kakipr0> nope
2019-11-13T19:19:26 < kakipr0> I'll have shared oscillator
2019-11-13T19:19:31 < aandrew> and tie the PHY's IRQ# to PA0 or something so the STM32 can be in deep sleep
2019-11-13T19:19:35 < kakipr0> enabled with BSR output
2019-11-13T19:19:46 < kakipr0> I have done that
2019-11-13T19:19:59 < kakipr0> also separate WoL output
2019-11-13T19:20:06 < aandrew> sounds like early optimization
2019-11-13T19:20:15 < kakipr0> but I wonder if there is any use for separate WoL
2019-11-13T19:20:22 < aandrew> give the PHY it's own crystal and use a couple zero ohm R to test the single clock solution
2019-11-13T19:20:32 < kakipr0> I think interrupts can be configured to include or exclude WoL
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2019-11-13T19:20:54 < aandrew> with the STM32 in deep sleep and the PHY doing EEE I think that's your lowest power option
2019-11-13T19:20:57 < kakipr0> you think there is a risk to do shared clock=?
2019-11-13T19:21:08 < kakipr0> EEE yes
2019-11-13T19:21:08 < aandrew> kakipr0: I like options for prototypes myself
2019-11-13T19:21:56 < aandrew> heh you could technically use WOL interrupt from PHY to completely power off the rest of the system
2019-11-13T19:22:04 < aandrew> so it's only the PHY that's powered
2019-11-13T19:23:48 < kakipr0> you mean you would power off all other regions?
2019-11-13T19:25:14 < kakipr0> I don't find any use for such complexity
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2019-11-13T19:25:35 < kakipr0> PHY has quite large power consumption
2019-11-13T19:25:41 < kakipr0> even in EEE LPI
2019-11-13T19:26:04 < kakipr0> where as MCU in powerdown mode is nothing compared to that
2019-11-13T19:27:35 < kakipr0> and mcu controls all the other power regions
2019-11-13T19:27:53 < aandrew> then you must have the wrong PHY
2019-11-13T19:29:01 < kakipr0> as I have said before I'm open to suggestions
2019-11-13T19:29:15 < qyx> aandrew: yeah tvs on the input for eg. 60V, 100V mosfets
2019-11-13T19:29:58 < qyx> and eg. 28V tvs on the output, OVP set to about 26V
2019-11-13T19:30:29 < qyx> so the output TVS would not conduct undermnormal overvoltage condition
2019-11-13T19:31:12 < kakipr0> aandrew: AVD is 18mA@1.8V and VDDIO is 6mA@3.3V
2019-11-13T19:31:31 < karlp> qyx: where would the output transients come from?
2019-11-13T19:31:51 < qyx> so the 24V circuit can accept anything up to 26V under normal conditions, can survive 60V overvolktage and can survive higher transitions
2019-11-13T19:31:52 < karlp> is this just because you're not sure it can turn off fast enough in overvoltage?
2019-11-13T19:32:07 < qyx> karlp: yeah because it turns off only with a pull resistor
2019-11-13T19:32:36 < qyx> idk I should measure
2019-11-13T19:32:48 < qyx> this is for solar input
2019-11-13T19:45:41 < kakipr0> recommend 25mhz oscillator
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2019-11-13T20:07:23 < kakipr0> aandrew: how is your 25mhz clock configuration looking like?
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2019-11-13T20:16:15 < kakipr0> hmm TCXOs need a lot of power
2019-11-13T20:20:36 < kakipr0> I'll go with ESC-2520MV*
2019-11-13T20:23:52 < kakipr0> I can get both standard oscillator and TCXO in the same format
2019-11-13T20:24:31 < kakipr0> also usually ESC-2520 is one of first in accending price order
2019-11-13T20:25:50 < kakipr0> but 5mA that is pretty much
2019-11-13T20:26:24 < kakipr0> I wonder if integrated oscillators have far smaller power consumption than external oscillator
2019-11-13T20:27:19 < qyx> yes
2019-11-13T20:27:34 < qyx> why do you even want an external one
2019-11-13T20:28:32 < kakipr0> idk
2019-11-13T20:28:50 < kakipr0> makes no sense
2019-11-13T20:30:59 < kakipr0> centralized clock
2019-11-13T20:31:10 < kakipr0> but is both more expensive and uses more power
2019-11-13T20:35:23 < kakipr0> centralized clock is good idea only when you need centralized clock
2019-11-13T20:38:55 < kakipr0> it's a full circle now
2019-11-13T20:39:12 < kakipr0> from where I asked zyp why he has own crystal for phy
2019-11-13T20:39:32 < kakipr0> to where I add own crystal for phy
2019-11-13T20:48:37 < aandrew> why do you need TCXO for non timing critical ethernets?
2019-11-13T20:48:51 < kakipr0> i don't
2019-11-13T20:48:59 < qyx> options man, options
2019-11-13T20:49:06 < kakipr0> yes
2019-11-13T20:49:08 < kakipr0> options
2019-11-13T20:49:18 < aandrew> what's that option get you?
2019-11-13T20:51:17 < kakipr0> idk
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2019-11-13T20:57:17 < Laurenceb> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ouXlQDSkNPY
2019-11-13T20:57:33 < kakipr0> now phy and mcu have their own crystals
2019-11-13T20:57:41 < kakipr0> and no option to interconnect them
2019-11-13T20:57:48 < kakipr0> and no option to add external oscillator
2019-11-13T20:57:50 < kakipr0> perfect
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2019-11-13T21:07:47 < kakipr0> it was too perfect so I added option to jumper MCO to XI of phy
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2019-11-13T21:40:19 < kakipr0> negative voltage to nmos gate
2019-11-13T21:40:23 < kakipr0> how bad it is?
2019-11-13T21:40:35 < kakipr0> -3.3V
2019-11-13T21:44:19 < kakipr0> I just wonder if the FET is off
2019-11-13T21:45:51 < kakipr0> I think this can be done
2019-11-13T21:45:53 < kakipr0> interesting
2019-11-13T21:45:56 < kakipr0> bblZ
2019-11-13T21:45:58 < kakipr0> Z>
2019-11-13T21:56:43 < aandrew> kakipr0: hm? I have a 25MHz VCTCXO feeding both the STM32 and PHY, control voltage for the VCTCXO comes from a filtered I2C DAC but that's not used
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2019-11-13T21:58:20 < Steffanx> Hello kakipr0. i missed you today.
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2019-11-13T22:04:28 < kakipr0> thx wlcm
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2019-11-13T23:04:20 < Steffanx> my lsi card is failing on me kakipr0.
2019-11-13T23:04:27 < Steffanx> but it also might be the sas-sata cable.
2019-11-13T23:10:01 < kakipr0> tell me how
2019-11-13T23:10:09 < kakipr0> howe it fails
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2019-11-13T23:15:18 < Steffanx> errors.
2019-11-13T23:15:23 < Steffanx> io errors
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2019-11-13T23:18:40 < specing> Steffanx: your cable is sassy
2019-11-13T23:19:06 < kakipr0> only time I saw a ton of io errors
2019-11-13T23:19:13 < kakipr0> it was cracked sata connector
2019-11-13T23:19:38 < kakipr0> you have errors in single drive or multiple drives?
2019-11-13T23:20:49 < Steffanx> i thought it was a disk so replaced it, but then it started with another, but only when i closed the case :P
2019-11-13T23:20:56 < Steffanx> so i guess it's the cabe
2019-11-13T23:20:58 < Steffanx> cable
2019-11-13T23:21:02 < Steffanx> its very sassy, specing
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2019-11-13T23:23:25 < Steffanx> i also might have swapped around some sata connectors, so .. so many variables
2019-11-13T23:25:26 < Steffanx> we'll see how it goes after replacing it
2019-11-13T23:26:25 < kakipr0> your cables are in tension?
2019-11-13T23:26:30 < kakipr0> when you close the box
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2019-11-13T23:30:55 < kakipr0> sligtly bend to the side?
2019-11-13T23:31:23 < kakipr0> cables making sharp turns?
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2019-11-13T23:45:45 < Steffanx> Nope
2019-11-13T23:45:55 < Steffanx> Just slightly bend.
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2019-11-13T23:50:38 < bitmask> how do you determine the right awg wire to use? do you aim for a certain max voltage drop?
2019-11-13T23:52:25 < mawk> that depends on your spec
2019-11-13T23:52:32 < mawk> which resistance do you want ?
2019-11-13T23:52:41 < mawk> what max intensity is allowed through the wire ?
2019-11-13T23:53:00 < mawk> which drop is acceptable, if it's ~constant current ?
2019-11-13T23:53:02 < mawk> and so on
2019-11-13T23:53:15 < Steffanx> So hows the dutchland mawk
2019-11-13T23:53:16 < bitmask> I guess I'm more worried about heating up
2019-11-13T23:53:39 < bitmask> am I ok with 16 awg for 1 meter @ 15A?
2019-11-13T23:54:08 < bitmask> 1 meter including return path
2019-11-13T23:54:19 < Steffanx> I usually just google a calculator for this
2019-11-13T23:54:52 < mawk> the length doesn't matter much for that bitmask 
2019-11-13T23:55:05 < mawk> just look up how much it will heat up for this copper section
2019-11-13T23:55:10 < mawk> with plastic insulator
--- Day changed Thu Nov 14 2019
2019-11-14T00:02:53 < Steffanx> When does the job start, mawk?
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2019-11-14T00:10:39 < bitmask> meh I can fit 14 awg on the xt30, that will be fine
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2019-11-14T00:33:31 < mawk> tomorrow Steffanx !
2019-11-14T00:33:53 < BrainDamage> aandrew: if you notice I reversed Vs and Vg
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2019-11-14T00:36:34 < Steffanx> Heh that's very soon, mawk
2019-11-14T00:36:47 < Steffanx> Mrng jly
2019-11-14T00:36:59 < Steffanx> +n
2019-11-14T00:37:50 < jly> good morning Steffan
2019-11-14T00:45:31 < jadew> good morning
2019-11-14T00:46:07 < jly> o/
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2019-11-14T01:24:45 < kakipr0> 0402 50VDC X7R 100n?
2019-11-14T01:25:05 < kakipr0> unlikelly?
2019-11-14T01:27:16 < jly> what does dk say
2019-11-14T01:27:32 < jly> i've purchased plenty 0603 of the same
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2019-11-14T01:32:27 < kakipr0> mee too
2019-11-14T01:32:28 < kakipr0> but
2019-11-14T01:32:42 < kakipr0> should I spec such for 0402
2019-11-14T01:39:51 < jadew> I used 0402 @ 100n and 50V ratings too
2019-11-14T01:40:01 < jadew> they're real
2019-11-14T01:45:13 < kakipr0> is it viable option?
2019-11-14T01:46:30 < jadew> sure, why not?
2019-11-14T01:46:57 < kakipr0> good good
2019-11-14T01:47:09 < kakipr0> I would hate to change like 100 different 100n caps
2019-11-14T01:47:10 < jadew> might not be as tolerant of overvoltage as 0603, but I'd expect it to meet its specifications
2019-11-14T01:48:51 < jadew> I wish I had a laser cutter right now
2019-11-14T01:49:25 < jadew> or is that not how you'd cut one in half?
2019-11-14T01:51:44 < kakipr0> it's not the overvoltage that is concern
2019-11-14T01:53:14 < jadew> here's the thing, if you need 100n in 0402, the 50V one will probably address your concerns better than a 16V or a 10V one
2019-11-14T01:53:43 < jadew> if those constraints are arbitrary, then go for something else
2019-11-14T01:54:00 < kakipr0> yes
2019-11-14T01:54:05 < kakipr0> that is what I think
2019-11-14T01:54:16 < kakipr0> reference design had 16VDC 0402 100n x7r
2019-11-14T01:55:58 < jadew> now I want to cut one in half
2019-11-14T01:56:04 < jadew> not really sure how to do it
2019-11-14T01:56:39 < karlp> what are you hoping to see?
2019-11-14T01:57:02 < jadew> karlp, how many layers it has, distance between them
2019-11-14T01:57:05 < karlp> snapping it on a razor blade might be nice for getting an edge to look at?
2019-11-14T01:57:06 < jadew> roughness
2019-11-14T01:57:17 < karlp> lazer would fuck up the surface as you cut wouldn't it?
2019-11-14T01:57:31 < jadew> karlp, don't know, I guess it could melt stuff
2019-11-14T01:57:36 < jadew> how do they normally do this?
2019-11-14T01:57:48 < jadew> do they cut with laser and then polish it?
2019-11-14T01:58:18 < jadew> problem about polishing is that it has to be super smooth, otherwise you can "smudge" the layers, no?
2019-11-14T01:59:36 < jadew> maybe with an ultrasonic cutter?
2019-11-14T01:59:55 < jadew> although, heat damage is a possibility with that one too
2019-11-14T02:03:20 < jadew> sounds like polishing is the way to go
2019-11-14T02:04:30 < jadew> I guess you don't even have to cut it
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2019-11-14T02:04:52 < jadew> you just polish it with something rougher until you get to the desired depth
2019-11-14T02:05:04 < jadew> and then change the sandpaper number
2019-11-14T02:05:34 < jadew> all you need is a tiny vise
2019-11-14T02:05:56 < jadew> and a way to fixate the polishing device to be parallel with the vise jaws
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2019-11-14T02:06:46 < jadew> this could be an interesting project
2019-11-14T02:10:32 < jadew> I think I know how it can be done
2019-11-14T02:10:42 < jadew> well, how I can do it with what I have
2019-11-14T02:11:34 < jadew> precision vise mounted on XY table, you put the component in, then you mount a tool like a dramel, horizontally, with a polishing head
2019-11-14T02:11:55 < jadew> and you use the table to move it precisely
2019-11-14T02:13:08 < kakipr0> anyone done usb otg?
2019-11-14T02:13:16 < kakipr0> on stm32
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2019-11-14T02:49:47 < kakipr0> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=930pMyHe5h0 musics.. Ultrasauce should try such chill psychedelic rock
2019-11-14T02:51:42 < kakipr0> https://drive.google.com/file/d/1R1sOpKUTNei05ugXITAwtBAbZY8dJYZ-/view?usp=sharing my project main schematic
2019-11-14T02:51:54 < kakipr0> still no application related schematics in it
2019-11-14T02:54:34 < kakipr0> just facilities and ui
2019-11-14T02:56:26 < kakipr0> I think I need such device that makes UI elements such as buttons pollable via smaller number of mcu pins
2019-11-14T03:05:35 < specing> you need a mcu for your mcu
2019-11-14T03:06:03 < kakipr0> yes
2019-11-14T03:06:08 < kakipr0> i need multiple mcu
2019-11-14T03:06:42 < kakipr0> null>
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2019-11-14T03:15:35 < kakinull> movie recommds?
2019-11-14T03:28:42 < kakinull> dongs: any keyboard interface chips to recommend?
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2019-11-14T03:35:38 < kakinull> keyboards are last season though
2019-11-14T03:35:55 < kakinull> or keypads
2019-11-14T03:41:45 < kakinull> just leave i2c connector there with power and interrupt line
2019-11-14T03:42:54 < kakinull> if some application may require some extended interface
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2019-11-14T03:58:18 < bitmask> man, ordering from mouser is amazing
2019-11-14T04:22:50 < kakinull> I don't know what you concidered good before?
2019-11-14T04:23:15 < jadew> I like mouser too
2019-11-14T04:23:41 < jadew> but I can't say I always find what I'm looking for
2019-11-14T04:23:46 < jadew> even if they have it
2019-11-14T04:24:50 < jadew> btw, I finally gave up on chrome
2019-11-14T04:25:04 < jadew> and I think I'll give up on google as a search engine too
2019-11-14T04:26:09 < jadew> the algo they use is very advanced, but you can easily shot yourself in the foot with it
2019-11-14T04:26:37 < jadew> I often have to switch to something else in order to get results for the actual thing I googled for
2019-11-14T04:26:44 < jadew> not for what the AI thinks I want
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2019-11-14T05:06:00 < kakinull> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CYvJPra7Ebk
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2019-11-14T05:12:44 < jadew> how about C++?
2019-11-14T05:22:09 < bitmask> well I just like getting my order in a few days
2019-11-14T05:22:39 < bitmask> im used to waiting for ali or more recently lcsc
2019-11-14T05:23:16 < jadew> ah
2019-11-14T05:23:21 < bitmask> lcsc didnt have some things so I went with mouser
2019-11-14T05:23:23 < jadew> you should order from Farnell then
2019-11-14T05:23:28 < jadew> you get it the next day
2019-11-14T05:23:51 < bitmask> I dont even have the boards yet, didnt order em
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2019-11-14T06:17:32 < Ultrasauce> lol kakinull thats one of my favourites
2019-11-14T06:18:09 < kakinull> no way
2019-11-14T06:18:58 < Ultrasauce> https://sunofmanband.bandcamp.com/album/iii related
2019-11-14T06:19:16 < kakinull> you don't listen this it's too chill
2019-11-14T06:19:34 < Ultrasauce> i listen to a lot of chill music, guess i just dont post it in here much
2019-11-14T06:20:27 < Ultrasauce> https://samsarabluesexperiment.bandcamp.com/album/long-distance-trip
2019-11-14T06:24:37 < Ultrasauce> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dYbXq4oh4n8
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2019-11-14T06:28:35 < jadew> that's troll music
2019-11-14T06:28:52 < jadew> I kept waiting for it to start, but I think it's on a loop
2019-11-14T06:29:02 < jadew> a 40 minutes loop to be more exact
2019-11-14T06:30:08 < jadew> also, it makes me sad, my teen years were very weird
2019-11-14T06:31:05 < Ultrasauce> https://sunnataofficial.bandcamp.com/album/outlands
2019-11-14T06:32:11 < jadew> reminds me of current 93
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2019-11-14T06:32:53 < jadew> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=F7NM8d-p5Qg
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2019-11-14T06:34:41 < Ultrasauce> oh rotting christ did a cover of that
2019-11-14T06:35:29 < jadew> I used to fall asleep on current 93 lol
2019-11-14T06:36:12 < jadew> I guess it qualifies as chill music
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2019-11-14T06:48:25 < Ultrasauce> http://module1485.bandcamp.com/album/typhonic-neural-tantra and here is one that is not chill, just to even things out
2019-11-14T06:48:35 < Ultrasauce> this concludes my musicspam for this evening
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2019-11-14T08:52:00 < jadew> ffs.. that controleo oven controller requires me to install the arduino ide in order to update the firmware :/
2019-11-14T08:52:05 < jadew> it has a slot for a freaking SD card
2019-11-14T08:53:47 < PaulFertser> Probably it's just a silly way of saying "install avrdude"?
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2019-11-14T08:56:36 < jadew> they don't provide binaries
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2019-11-14T09:15:52 < jpa-> arduino ide is one of the least annoying IDEs to install though
2019-11-14T09:16:14 < jpa-> IIRC the linux package just extracts and then you can execute it
2019-11-14T09:28:41 < PaulFertser> When I needed to compile stupid arduino-based "repetier" 3d printer firmware, I just made a shell script: avr-g++ -mmcu=atmega1284p -fdata-sections -ffunction-sections -Wl,--gc-sections -Os -DARDUINO=180 -DF_CPU=16000000UL -I./Arduino/hardware/arduino/avr/cores/arduino/ ... Arduino/hardware/arduino/avr/cores/arduino/wiring.c ... *.cpp 
2019-11-14T09:29:28 < PaulFertser> (but this firmware doesn't have any .ino files which might need weird preprocessing)
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2019-11-14T09:37:36 < jadew> jpa-, I guess that's good
2019-11-14T09:37:46 < jadew> I'll update the firmware after I wake up
2019-11-14T09:38:08 < jadew> I just installed the motor that opens the door and it has some weird driving issues and apparently the new firmware version fixes them
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2019-11-14T10:50:29 < Steffanx> It's none of my business, but are you still married?
2019-11-14T10:50:57 < Steffanx> I cannot believe any wife would accept your work hours
2019-11-14T10:53:25 < jpa-> why not?
2019-11-14T10:59:10 < specing> Steffanx: maybe his wife has even odder work hours?
2019-11-14T11:26:47 < Steffanx> That's possible specing.
2019-11-14T11:28:39 < Steffanx> Will you do the experiment for me? Try to go to sleep around 8-9 in the morning for a longer period. (Assuming you dont do that already ;))
2019-11-14T11:28:53 < Steffanx> ^  jpa-  
2019-11-14T11:28:54 < specing> I did that yesterday
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2019-11-14T11:48:14 < karlp> nice, github publishs terms changes, effective immediately.
2019-11-14T11:48:26 < karlp> I thought you were meant to be given a method of opting out and refusing terms changes.
2019-11-14T11:48:57 < specing> that reminds me that I should finaly delete my gh account
2019-11-14T11:50:07 < karlp> their own docs even say, "We may modify this agreement, but we will give you 30 days' notice of changes that affect your rights."
2019-11-14T11:50:11 < karlp> guess my rights didn't change.
2019-11-14T11:57:02 < karlp> Customer may provide Feedback to GitHub regarding the Products. Feedback is voluntary and is not Customer Confidential Information, even if designated as such.
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2019-11-14T12:16:30 < karlp> I feel like you may have gone overboard with heirarchical sheets kakipro
2019-11-14T12:16:50 < karlp> but sexy putting 4bit trace on!
2019-11-14T12:17:51 < karlp> how did you end up with buttons and decoupling on the front page, but crystals on another page?
2019-11-14T12:18:50 < karlp> for your boot jumpers, why not just pulls and single pole jumpers?
2019-11-14T12:19:48 < karlp> you have a typo in your suspended led net.
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2019-11-14T12:24:06 < karlp> learnt about this from reading github terms updates though, so that's neat: https://dependabot.com/
2019-11-14T12:40:55 < karlp> heh, explicitly added "no crypto mining you cunts" to their acceptable use policy: https://github.com/github/site-policy/pull/199/files#diff-4989585d4637bd20c72a71b6c75f297eR37
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2019-11-14T12:48:49 < day> karlp: that paragraph reads much cooler if you skip the initial part
2019-11-14T12:48:55 < day> - use our servers for any form of excessive automated bulk activity (for example, spamming)
2019-11-14T12:51:13 < karlp> huh, "cypress" search on google gives me higher rankings for cypress.io than cypress.com  possibly because I just was on their github page learning what it wsa, but still
2019-11-14T12:52:44 < BrainDamage> > to disrupt or to attempt to disrupt, or to gain or to attempt to gain unauthorized access to, any service, device, data, account or network
2019-11-14T12:53:22 < BrainDamage> I bet they added this after github got spammed of ton of bot accounts to get cash for keybase money drop
2019-11-14T12:53:50 < BrainDamage> they were giving digital currency for "free" provided you had a gh account and as result github got "accidentally" ddos'ed
2019-11-14T13:00:09  * karlp laughs
2019-11-14T13:00:23 < karlp> digital currency still has so many windfalls for people in the know doesn't it.
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2019-11-14T14:28:15 < BrainDamage> https://github.com/cyrus-and/gdb-dashboard this is pretty neat
2019-11-14T14:32:30 < Laurenceb> wew
2019-11-14T14:32:35 < Laurenceb> space runway is back on
2019-11-14T14:33:54 < Ecco> Hi :)
2019-11-14T14:34:14 < Ecco> What would be the easiest way to allow an STM32 to receive some data over NFC from a mobile phone?
2019-11-14T14:37:34 < zyp> maybe one of those i2c eeproms with nfc
2019-11-14T14:38:10 < zyp> ST25
2019-11-14T14:38:15 < Ecco> Yeah, indeed
2019-11-14T14:38:29 < Ecco> So STM32 <--> ST25 <--> NFC
2019-11-14T14:38:39 < Ecco> Now, slightly different question
2019-11-14T14:38:56 < Ecco> what would be the *cheapeast* way to allow an STM32 to receive some data over NFC from a mobile phone?
2019-11-14T14:39:13 < zyp> same answer, likely
2019-11-14T14:39:25 < Ecco> ok
2019-11-14T14:39:26 < Ecco> :)
2019-11-14T14:39:31 < zyp> I mean, you need something that talks nfc
2019-11-14T14:39:34 < Ecco> yeah
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2019-11-14T14:39:43 < zyp> you can either use one of those tags with i2c as well
2019-11-14T14:39:51 < Ecco> so maybe I can just cheap out on the size of the flash in ST25
2019-11-14T14:39:51 < zyp> or a full nfc reader chip in p2p mode
2019-11-14T14:40:07 < zyp> I assume a full reader chip is both more expensive and more complicated to use
2019-11-14T14:40:13 < Ecco> makes sense
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2019-11-14T14:40:42 < zyp> I've used ST95, but I haven't tried p2p mode
2019-11-14T14:40:46 < zyp> just as a reader
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2019-11-14T15:13:20 < Ecco> ok :)
2019-11-14T15:13:29 < Ecco> thanks :)
2019-11-14T15:13:32 < kakipr0> okok
2019-11-14T15:16:01 < kakipr0> do bsr latch outputs glitchlessly?
2019-11-14T15:16:29 < kakipr0> ie. output state 1 -> latch -> output state 1
2019-11-14T15:17:25 < zyp> of course
2019-11-14T15:17:38 < kakipr0> was there a time
2019-11-14T15:17:46 < kakipr0> when everything was glitchy
2019-11-14T15:17:52 < kakipr0> is 70s
2019-11-14T15:18:40 < kakipr0> anyway
2019-11-14T15:18:46 < kakipr0> I'm just chattin
2019-11-14T15:21:11 < kakipr0> I have flu
2019-11-14T15:21:35 < karlp> bsr?
2019-11-14T15:21:53 < kakipr0> bit shift register
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2019-11-14T15:29:22 < kakipr0> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Fox_xomGgFg 747 firebomber
2019-11-14T15:35:32 < Steffanx> Why no Bsr, kakipr0 ?
2019-11-14T15:35:51 < Steffanx> More parallel, much better.
2019-11-14T15:36:14 < kakipr0> yezs
2019-11-14T15:37:01 < kakipr0> what was the logic to use with logic Steffanx?
2019-11-14T15:37:38 < kakipr0> i have HC logics but I think there was some logic that was better in every sense
2019-11-14T15:37:43 < kakipr0> LVC?
2019-11-14T15:37:51 < kakipr0> but price ofc
2019-11-14T15:45:00 < kakipr0> VHC
2019-11-14T15:47:41 < karlp> if hc works, there's no reason to get anything else.
2019-11-14T15:47:56 < kakipr0> quiescent current
2019-11-14T15:48:02 < kakipr0> HC = 70u
2019-11-14T15:48:28 < kakipr0> max
2019-11-14T15:48:42 < kakipr0> VHC = 40u max 4u typical
2019-11-14T15:49:12 < kakipr0> 40u is the full industrial temperature range
2019-11-14T15:50:15 < Steffanx> There is no logic use in logic.
2019-11-14T15:50:37 < kakipr0> there is
2019-11-14T15:50:43 < kakipr0> logic is the bestest
2019-11-14T15:50:52 < Laurenceb> logic is a social construct
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2019-11-14T15:56:51 < kakipr0> I need logic like 244 but with active high enables
2019-11-14T15:57:21 < Laurenceb> > The jockbug, once a promising athlete, now watches with beer and betting slip-in-hand as blaring, sanitized SPORTS! is beamed into his retinas, relieving his brain of any signs of life that might have otherwise surfaced. Jockbugs have been known to spend as many as 30 hours a week consuming SPORTS!
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2019-11-14T15:58:35 < Laurenceb> copypasta status: saved
2019-11-14T15:58:41 < kakipr0> sounds brittish
2019-11-14T15:58:45 < Laurenceb> lol
2019-11-14T16:12:23 < jadew> I think I consume more sports than that
2019-11-14T16:12:35 < jadew> the difference is I was never an athlete
2019-11-14T16:12:58 < jadew> or ever enjoyed sports when I was young
2019-11-14T16:13:32 < jadew> and I still think most sports are stupid
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2019-11-14T16:30:42 < karlp> yet you s till manage 30+hours a week?
2019-11-14T16:30:45 < karlp> and your irc?
2019-11-14T16:30:49 < karlp> when the fuck?
2019-11-14T16:32:35 < Steffanx> Raising kids is sports... right?
2019-11-14T16:33:01 < Steffanx> And programming is .. mind sport
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2019-11-14T16:41:30 < tomeaton17> https://i.redd.it/6bnu7u59fyu31.jpg
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2019-11-14T16:48:43 < jadew> karlp, I do all that when I work
2019-11-14T16:49:07 < jadew> IRC is just small breaks to keep anxiety levels high
2019-11-14T16:50:35 < Steffanx> Welcome tomeaton17 . Where have you been?
2019-11-14T16:55:00 < tomeaton17> Steffanx: hi I have been busy with my studies
2019-11-14T16:55:05 < tomeaton17> im in 2nd year now
2019-11-14T16:56:15 < tomeaton17> i have an stm32 module but its with mbed lol
2019-11-14T16:59:07 < kakipr0> what are your favourite sports?
2019-11-14T16:59:13 < kakipr0> jadew
2019-11-14T16:59:48 < kakipr0> womens javelin throw?
2019-11-14T17:02:45 -!- fenugrec [~fenugrec@24.105.71.66] has joined ##stm32
2019-11-14T17:04:38 < jadew> kakipr0, boxing and MMA
2019-11-14T17:05:19 < tomeaton17> so did you watch KSI vs Logan Paul 2?
2019-11-14T17:05:41 < karlp> I don't think having sports on while you're doing something is the same as the hours being talked abotu there for sitting in front and _watching_ it
2019-11-14T17:05:56 < karlp> I mean, shit, I count cars and watch clouds for 30 hours a week too
2019-11-14T17:06:11 < jadew> tomeaton17, no, I'll watch it today tho
2019-11-14T17:06:17 < jadew> no spoilers please
2019-11-14T17:06:41 < tomeaton17> ok I thought it was good
2019-11-14T17:06:47 < tomeaton17> but had to stay up till 6am
2019-11-14T17:07:34 < jadew> I only watch what's on youtube, don't really care about the competition
2019-11-14T17:07:56 < Steffanx> Really jadew ? Somehow that sounds very unjadew
2019-11-14T17:08:31 < jadew> karlp, I guess it's not the same, yeah
2019-11-14T17:08:55 < jadew> kakipr0, women MMA is also very interesting, because they have less force so they have to fight differently
2019-11-14T17:09:26 < Steffanx> No kickboxing, jadew ?
2019-11-14T17:09:30 < jadew> Steffanx, it's a recent development
2019-11-14T17:09:43 < jadew> Steffanx, sure, kickboxing too
2019-11-14T17:09:50 < Steffanx> I believe there is some "huge" fight between some dutchies soonish
2019-11-14T17:09:55 < tomeaton17> I dont like when mma fights are just ground game it gets quite boring
2019-11-14T17:10:19 < jadew> tomeaton17, I didn't enjoy them at first either, but some of them are very interesting
2019-11-14T17:10:57 < tomeaton17> jadew: I agree when they are technically very good at it
2019-11-14T17:11:23 < tomeaton17> I think aj vs ruiz 2 will be really good
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2019-11-14T17:12:38 < jadew> tomeaton17, you seem to be up to date, I just watch random fights from the past
2019-11-14T17:13:27 < tomeaton17> jadew: oh right
2019-11-14T17:13:49 < jadew> last week I watched all of the muhammad ali fights, that was an eye opener
2019-11-14T17:14:05 < tomeaton17> the people who I live with like it as well so we got the tv sports package
2019-11-14T17:14:16 < tomeaton17> still have to pay £20 box office for the boxing ones though
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2019-11-14T17:17:13 < jadew> I'll probably get a subscription at some point, but for now there are lots of good fights I haven't seen
2019-11-14T17:17:38 < tomeaton17> yeah theres loads of stuff out there
2019-11-14T17:17:46 < tomeaton17> I really like the hype of the night though
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2019-11-14T17:30:03 < jadew> tomeaton17, just saw the highlights of the KSI vs Logan Paul fight
2019-11-14T17:30:11 < jadew> apparently it streamed live for free :P
2019-11-14T17:30:39 < jadew> people seem to do that on youtube
2019-11-14T17:35:06 < Laurenceb> normie spotted
2019-11-14T17:35:47 < BrainDamage> 4chan subculture is so wide that they can be considered 'normies' on their own
2019-11-14T17:36:13 < Laurenceb> you will live to see yourself become normie
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2019-11-14T17:40:03 < kakipr0> the only real kaki
2019-11-14T17:41:31 < kakipr0> you shall have no other kakis
2019-11-14T17:43:27 < kakipr0> https://drive.google.com/file/d/1ufqv61Tvgl6ozZphd2Dyk0PaX_Le2_Xi/view?usp=sharing why did they go with active low power switch?
2019-11-14T17:43:45 < kakipr0> this is bothering me
2019-11-14T17:44:06 < kakipr0> do they want to use open collector mode driver on that pin?
2019-11-14T17:44:18 < kakipr0> that controls it
2019-11-14T17:44:43 < kakipr0> anyone have f1 usb otg power switching code laying around?
2019-11-14T17:45:29 < englishman> Laurenceb is a normie he's just a normie that doesn't do anything fun or interesting
2019-11-14T17:46:01 < kakipr0> normie! normie!
2019-11-14T17:46:48 < kakipr0> that's savage englishman
2019-11-14T17:47:18 < bitmask> hey guys
2019-11-14T17:47:47 < kakipr0> hello
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2019-11-14T18:37:38 < ac_slater> hey guys, I'm having some SPI issues. On my scope, the SPI
2019-11-14T18:38:05 < ac_slater> hey guys, I'm having some SPI issues. My STM32F4 is the spi master and I only have one 3-wire slave. On my scope, the SPI master clock (STM32f4) is only active when a transmission is present.
2019-11-14T18:38:18 < ac_slater> I think this is causing some issues on my slave. Can I have the clock always active?
2019-11-14T18:39:05 < ac_slater> active = operating, not always high
2019-11-14T18:39:12 < qyx> thats not spi then
2019-11-14T18:39:27 < qyx> probably yes with some "hack"
2019-11-14T18:40:06 < bitmask> is my board ready to order? I hate this part
2019-11-14T18:40:18 < ac_slater> qyx: ah ok so it's normal to only activate the clock during a transfer?>
2019-11-14T18:41:24 < Cracki> how can that cause issues with the slave
2019-11-14T18:41:34 < kakipr0> so your SPI is working like it should
2019-11-14T18:42:08 < kakipr0> you are trying to fix something you should not fix
2019-11-14T18:43:30 < ac_slater> ok thanks guys that makes sense
2019-11-14T18:43:38 < ac_slater> just trying to work around a shit slave
2019-11-14T18:43:45 < ac_slater> and 2EDGE mode on the STM32 is confusing
2019-11-14T18:43:50 < ac_slater> I appreciate the help!
2019-11-14T18:46:15 < ac_slater> my slave sends data late and has some known issues with certain SPI settings, so I'm trying to work around it
2019-11-14T18:51:07 < Cracki> maybe be a little less nonspecific
2019-11-14T18:51:18 < Cracki> if you'd like input, that is
2019-11-14T18:54:04 < bitmask> when you order a stencil with framework, do you only need to tape down the pcb and then put the framework on top and secure that or do you need to lift the framework up the height of the pcb
2019-11-14T18:56:02 < aandrew> ac_slater: sometimes a picture is worth 1000 words... can you get us a LA capture of clk/data/select?
2019-11-14T18:56:29 < aandrew> and a pic of what the slave is expecting as well
2019-11-14T19:02:56 < ac_slater> aandrew: yea I'm trying mate. I have a saleae and can capture output. Working on getting descripts in a terse form to ask you guys
2019-11-14T19:02:58 < ac_slater> ;)
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2019-11-14T20:13:58 < srk>  /join #distrap 
2019-11-14T20:14:04 < srk> bz
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2019-11-14T20:53:52 < kakipr0> are resistor arrays a thing anymore?
2019-11-14T20:54:38 < kakipr0> is resistor arrays 90's
2019-11-14T20:55:48 < kakipr0> only place I have ever used resistor array was cyclone II breakout board I got from my guru
2019-11-14T20:56:22 < kakipr0> and it had printer port so effectivelly 90s
2019-11-14T20:59:38 < Steffanx> Yeah why not?
2019-11-14T21:02:06 < jpa-> zyp: do you think i could get away with branching D+/D- from USB HS PHY to the stm32 internal OTG_FS, so that i can use built-in DFU?
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2019-11-14T21:05:15 < Steffanx> so a new sassy sata cable is a happy cable, kakipr0 :P
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2019-11-14T21:05:43 < kakipr0> how was the last one faulty?
2019-11-14T21:05:46 < kakipr0> any indications?
2019-11-14T21:06:05 < mawk> first day in job Steffanx 
2019-11-14T21:06:14 < mawk> they use stm32L1
2019-11-14T21:06:21 < mawk> in all their products
2019-11-14T21:06:46 < mawk> with stdperiph lib
2019-11-14T21:07:03 < kakipr0> companys hate hals
2019-11-14T21:07:12 < Steffanx> sounds like that have some experience with stm32 mawk :P
2019-11-14T21:07:19 < Steffanx> no clue, kakipr0
2019-11-14T21:07:20 < mawk> they said I can move everything to HAL if I'm motivated
2019-11-14T21:07:30 < Steffanx> you're not i assume :P
2019-11-14T21:07:34 < mawk> otherwise they will hire an intern to do the shitty job
2019-11-14T21:07:36 < mawk> yeah lol
2019-11-14T21:07:52 < Steffanx> HAL LL stuff would be easier i think
2019-11-14T21:08:01 < mawk> they have a big assembly & calibration building
2019-11-14T21:08:04 < Steffanx> why move anyway.
2019-11-14T21:08:09 < mawk> with ladies assembling and calibrating all day
2019-11-14T21:08:14 < Steffanx> heh
2019-11-14T21:10:00 < Steffanx> they actually do ultra-low power stuff or just .. L1 because we can?
2019-11-14T21:10:19 < mawk> they do low power
2019-11-14T21:10:26 < mawk> with lithium thionyl chloride battery
2019-11-14T21:10:57 < mawk> with back of the envelope calculation with field power consumption measurement they last 4.5years on one cell
2019-11-14T21:11:04 < BrainDamage> I want chlorine triflouride batteries
2019-11-14T21:11:04 < Steffanx> hah
2019-11-14T21:11:33 < mawk> they didn't even check the diplomas
2019-11-14T21:11:38 < mawk> just believed me
2019-11-14T21:11:52 < kakipr0> sweet
2019-11-14T21:11:54 < mawk> they saw my github and was enough for them I guess
2019-11-14T21:12:10 < Steffanx> Im not sure if checking it all is very common in dutchland
2019-11-14T21:12:36 < mawk> it's the best available in primary cell BrainDamage ?
2019-11-14T21:13:31 < qyx> what are chrodine something batteries?
2019-11-14T21:13:36 < qyx> chlorine
2019-11-14T21:13:41 < BrainDamage> mawk: it's a stronger oxidizer than oxygen and fluorine alone
2019-11-14T21:13:48 < BrainDamage> it'll set on fire anything
2019-11-14T21:13:53 < BrainDamage> including water and sand
2019-11-14T21:13:56 < BrainDamage> and asbestos
2019-11-14T21:14:08 < Steffanx> yeah sounds awesome for a battery
2019-11-14T21:14:30 < BrainDamage> on the other hand, because it's such a strong oxidizer, it makes for an awesome primary battery reagent
2019-11-14T21:15:33 < BrainDamage> it'll even set on fire otherwise burned stuff like ashes, or even concrete
2019-11-14T21:15:38 < mawk> triflouride
2019-11-14T21:15:43 < mawk> it's three flour molecules
2019-11-14T21:16:48 < mawk> it reminds me of tetrafluoroantimonic acid
2019-11-14T21:17:42 < jpa-> mawk: congrats on the new job!
2019-11-14T21:18:09 < mawk> thanks !
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2019-11-14T21:31:24 < Steffanx> So are you fed up with the dutchies talking dutch to each other yet, mawk?
2019-11-14T21:32:19 < mawk> yes
2019-11-14T21:32:23 < mawk> they talk english with me tho
2019-11-14T21:32:37 < mawk> but I can understand dutch a little bit
2019-11-14T21:32:39 < BrainDamage> oh yeah, congrats on your new nationality, fleeing a country is quite movie-like
2019-11-14T21:32:47 < mawk> lol thanks
2019-11-14T21:33:12 < mawk> I already had dutch citizenship, I just need to recover it by proving my father is dutch and was married until I was 7 or some dumb rule
2019-11-14T21:33:47 < Steffanx> soon he will be fleeing dutchland too.
2019-11-14T21:34:13 < BrainDamage> the fleeing dutchman
2019-11-14T21:34:30 < Steffanx> Country is going mad over some nitrogen oxide emission "issue"
2019-11-14T21:35:12 < Steffanx> They even lowered the max. speed to drive to from 130 to 100km/h
2019-11-14T21:35:23 < Steffanx> which is a change of 0.3% .. in theory.
2019-11-14T21:35:35 < Steffanx> -to
2019-11-14T21:35:43 < BrainDamage> consumption is not linear with speed
2019-11-14T21:35:55 < Steffanx> but luckily for mawk he doesnt have a drivers license :P
2019-11-14T21:36:09 < BrainDamage> however fun thing: engines have to run colder and therefore less efficient in order to comply with emission regulation
2019-11-14T21:36:20 < BrainDamage> because as temp goes up, so does the reactivity
2019-11-14T21:36:29 < BrainDamage> so you get CO, NOx, etc
2019-11-14T21:36:42 < specing> thats good
2019-11-14T21:36:48 < specing> they need to run much more colder
2019-11-14T21:36:49 < Steffanx> Yeah, i assume they accounted for it. It's 0.3% of the total NOx emission.
2019-11-14T21:36:57 < specing> at 25'C in the form of a li-ion battery pack
2019-11-14T21:37:01 < mawk> lol
2019-11-14T21:37:10 < Steffanx> funny is how they do not take air planes into account much. At least not for the emssions > 300ft.
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2019-11-14T21:37:16 < specing> how ICEs are still not banned is beyond me
2019-11-14T21:37:24 < mawk> lack of serious alternative
2019-11-14T21:37:33 < specing> bicycles
2019-11-14T21:37:37 < BrainDamage> boats and airplanes run with super dirty fuel
2019-11-14T21:37:41 < BrainDamage> because it's cheap
2019-11-14T21:37:41 < specing> an e-rikshaws
2019-11-14T21:37:59 < specing> you can have 45km/h e-rikshaws with 100km range for a few grand
2019-11-14T21:38:15 < Steffanx> fuck 45hm/h
2019-11-14T21:38:22 < specing> people are spoiled with their 2ton murder machines
2019-11-14T21:38:22 < Steffanx> km
2019-11-14T21:38:32 < Steffanx> mine is only 1.3iirc.
2019-11-14T21:38:40 < specing> still 1.2 too many
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2019-11-14T21:38:57 < Steffanx> Im still not convinced specing
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2019-11-14T21:40:29 < specing> thats why it has to be a government-level ban
2019-11-14T21:40:50 < specing> many will not like it
2019-11-14T21:40:51 < Steffanx> Yes, they e-rikshaw is such practical vehicle...
2019-11-14T21:40:55 < Steffanx> *the
2019-11-14T21:41:03 < specing> but it is necessary for survival of species
2019-11-14T21:41:31 < specing> dunno, I've been using e-bicycle, normal bicycle and an electric kick scooter
2019-11-14T21:41:51 < specing> yes, a car would get me faster to places
2019-11-14T21:41:52 < Steffanx> but you live .. 2 miles away from your work/school/uni?
2019-11-14T21:41:55 < mawk> I bought a new laptop 
2019-11-14T21:41:55 < specing> but so would a VTOL plane
2019-11-14T21:42:03 < specing> Steffanx: 10 miles
2019-11-14T21:42:27 < Steffanx> Not something you do very easily here.
2019-11-14T21:42:43 < specing> Steffanx: why not
2019-11-14T21:42:52 < Steffanx> space, houce prices..
2019-11-14T21:42:53 < jpa-> specing: i'm more surprised coal power plants are not banned yet
2019-11-14T21:42:58 < Steffanx> ^
2019-11-14T21:43:01 < specing> jpa-: coal power plants are fine
2019-11-14T21:43:22 < specing> coal power plants can afford filtering equipment and the soot gets buried back in the mine
2019-11-14T21:43:31 < BrainDamage> except when they don't
2019-11-14T21:44:04 < specing> we have a new 600MWe coal plant 50 km away that replaced two old units and the air quality improved
2019-11-14T21:45:09 < Steffanx> it went from awful to bad?
2019-11-14T21:45:15 < specing> yes
2019-11-14T21:45:30 < specing> it still burns 440_000 kg of lignite coal per hour
2019-11-14T21:46:05 < specing> but having such a plant and everyone using electric cars and heat pump heating is vastly better than everyone using ICEs and "random garbage" heating
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2019-11-14T21:49:31 < Steffanx> I would drive an EV if it wasnt so F-ing expensive. 
2019-11-14T21:49:40 < Steffanx> and Im not getting a loan for a car.
2019-11-14T21:49:41 < mawk> and unpractical
2019-11-14T21:49:53 < specing> EV starts at 350 eur for a xiaomi m365
2019-11-14T21:50:00 < mawk> you don't go very far unless the whole country is full of recharge stations
2019-11-14T21:50:04 < specing> far from expensive
2019-11-14T21:50:20 < Steffanx> im close enough to work for it not being impractical
2019-11-14T21:50:44 < Steffanx> That's not a proper EV, mr specing
2019-11-14T21:50:57 < specing> it is
2019-11-14T21:51:02 < Steffanx> And that thing is illegal here, for now.
2019-11-14T21:51:09 < specing> what is the xiaomi m365 other than an electric vehicle?
2019-11-14T21:51:18 < specing> it is illegal here, too
2019-11-14T21:51:23 < Steffanx> it only has 2 wheels.
2019-11-14T21:51:26 < specing> the police don't fine you for it, though
2019-11-14T21:51:32 < Steffanx> here they would.
2019-11-14T21:51:40 < Steffanx> and will
2019-11-14T21:51:42 < specing> I went 1m away from several police officers on it and was not stopped
2019-11-14T21:52:03 < specing> I guess they realise that the benefit of these scooters to the environment is enormous
2019-11-14T21:52:09 < Steffanx> With an EV i mean a proper 4 wheel car.
2019-11-14T21:52:14 < Steffanx> Warm and dry.
2019-11-14T21:52:17 < BrainDamage> for one, you cannot insure it if it's illegal, and here police has automatic scanner for insurance from license plate
2019-11-14T21:52:42 < BrainDamage> so go in front of a police vehicle here and they'd istantly know and stop you
2019-11-14T21:52:46 < Steffanx> but here you wont get a license plate, so they cant scan it :P
2019-11-14T21:52:50 < specing> BrainDamage: I don't have a license plate, lol
2019-11-14T21:53:07 < BrainDamage> yeah, they'll rail your ass with sand
2019-11-14T21:53:16 < specing> nah they wont
2019-11-14T21:53:31 < BrainDamage> I'm not saying there, I'm stating things here
2019-11-14T21:53:45 < BrainDamage> I know people who attempted shit like that, and ended up horribly
2019-11-14T21:59:27 < Steffanx> does the xiaomi m365 do stuff in the cloud like a proper xiaomi device, specing?
2019-11-14T22:00:41 < specing> Steffanx: nope
2019-11-14T22:00:52 < specing> all it has is bluetooth for stats and settings
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2019-11-14T22:06:40 < Steffanx> hm
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2019-11-14T22:35:02 < karlp> jpa-: naively I assumed that a ulpi phy would operate in passthrough mode until configured?
2019-11-14T22:36:15 < aandrew> karlp: which PHY?
2019-11-14T22:38:28 < aandrew> I have a design where I'd assumed I could hold the PHY in reset and it would passthrough just fine (USB3340) and it does the dumb thing where in reset it powers an internal regulator off which of course kills its internal analog switches, disabling passthrough
2019-11-14T22:39:01 < aandrew> I had to screw around with a pair of back-to-back mosfets to power its 3.3v out rail when in reset
2019-11-14T22:39:21 < karlp> aandrew: no idea, jpa was asking about routing d+- around the side to do DFU in rom bootloader, when the ulpi hs phy wouldn't be active
2019-11-14T22:39:36 < karlp> I just "assumed" this wasn't a problem one had to contend with :)
2019-11-14T22:39:46 < aandrew> ah. need more info for that, ideally the PHY would just completely "let go" of the lines
2019-11-14T22:39:49 < aandrew> when in reset
2019-11-14T22:41:57 < kakipr0> what passthrough?
2019-11-14T22:44:06 < kakipr0> fuckken flu
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2019-11-14T23:03:34 < Steffanx> awh is kakipr0 sick?
2019-11-14T23:03:45 < Steffanx> or just the man flu?
2019-11-14T23:03:49 < kakipr0> yes
2019-11-14T23:08:57 < Steffanx> hm, is it bad
2019-11-14T23:10:58 < jpa-> karlp: what does passthrough mean?
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2019-11-14T23:13:26 < jpa-> (phy is USB3300)
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2019-11-14T23:25:28 < karlp> I've never used a hs phy, I just naivly thought you got fs "automagically" if the hs phy wasnt' configured.
2019-11-14T23:25:35 < karlp> like I said, that may have been naive
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2019-11-14T23:41:32 < kakipr0> recommendation for spi and i2c connection pinouts?
2019-11-14T23:41:56 < kakipr0> will include 3v3 power and interrupt from external device
2019-11-14T23:50:15 < karlp> pmod, grove, mikroe click all have them, if you're talking about some sort of pluggable external interface?
2019-11-14T23:59:21 < Cracki> wew https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q0RE-h1VDIg
--- Day changed Fri Nov 15 2019
2019-11-15T00:05:48 < karlp> I love how projects like nmap just build everything themselves, inside their own libraries.
2019-11-15T00:06:20 < karlp> nmap has a complete lua ms-sql server library.  no-one else has anythign modern htat might actually work, but nmap built it from scratch internally https://github.com/nmap/nmap/blob/master/nselib/mssql.lua
2019-11-15T00:06:48 < doomba> that's because nmap was around before all of the 3rd party libraries were really established. it used libnet from the very beginning.
2019-11-15T00:12:40 < karlp> that might be true for some of it,
2019-11-15T00:12:48 < karlp> but certainly not all of it.
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2019-11-15T00:18:08 < jpa-> karlp: yeah, AFAIK when using HS phy, also FS communication has to go through that; and to do that, the ULPI interface on STM32 must be enabled, which the system memory DFU doesn't do
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2019-11-15T01:27:10 < Cracki> yt recommendation: LJrE1HjO3WA
2019-11-15T01:29:39 < kakipr0> why you don't url
2019-11-15T01:30:22 < Cracki> safety reasons
2019-11-15T01:30:48 < kakipr0> I'll wait that someone tries it first
2019-11-15T01:35:14 -!- Thorn [~Thorn@unaffiliated/thorn] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds]
2019-11-15T01:38:32 < Cracki> it keeps escalating
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2019-11-15T01:41:38 < kakipr0> is it available 1hour from now?
2019-11-15T01:41:57 < Cracki> yes
2019-11-15T01:42:16 < kakipr0> den I don't do hastly desisions
2019-11-15T01:50:26 < kakipr0> I created a symmetrical module interface now
2019-11-15T01:51:08 < kakipr0> it can be battery module, source module or sink module or source sink module
2019-11-15T01:51:21 < kakipr0> any port accepts any of those
2019-11-15T01:52:13 < kakipr0> multiple battery modules can be connected and batteries can be swapped on fly without interrupts
2019-11-15T01:52:28 < kakipr0> no voltage balancing between batteries required
2019-11-15T01:53:33 < Cracki> noice
2019-11-15T02:05:46 < jadew> so what's on that non-youtube-link
2019-11-15T02:05:49 < jadew> ?
2019-11-15T02:06:11 < jadew> how many agencies will start tracking me if I open it?
2019-11-15T02:08:01 < jadew> 1 day in of using just FF
2019-11-15T02:08:04 < jadew> it's slower :/
2019-11-15T02:08:31 < jadew> not sure exactly what is slower, but it feels slower
2019-11-15T02:08:47 < kakipr0> from the moment you open that link in just minutes multiple satellites start gimbaling
2019-11-15T02:08:58 < kakipr0> calls are made
2019-11-15T02:09:13 < kakipr0> people are called to work immidietelly
2019-11-15T02:09:30 < jadew> and you receive a prize?
2019-11-15T02:09:39 < kakipr0> you receive commandos
2019-11-15T02:09:51 < aandrew> the way that camera moves makes me feel like I'm in a Quake match
2019-11-15T02:11:07 < kakipr0> oh it's some real life action in that link?
2019-11-15T02:11:08 < aandrew> not sure why you couldn't have linked it
2019-11-15T02:11:54 < Cracki> he does move like a quake model
2019-11-15T02:12:44 < Cracki> gotta be careful. don't want shit hitting the fan
2019-11-15T02:15:08 < englishman> https://m.imgur.com/a/nhaUxSx
2019-11-15T02:15:19 < englishman> this is gonna be a weird ass fuck lookin truck
2019-11-15T02:16:37 < jadew> Cracki, is that a shit pipe?
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2019-11-15T02:16:46 < Cracki> I hope so
2019-11-15T02:17:02 < Cracki> that or mashed corn
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2019-11-15T02:21:24 < jadew> did he got a splash of that on his face, lol
2019-11-15T02:23:01 < jadew> if it's shit, he has a very high tolerance for it
2019-11-15T02:23:24 < Cracki> they all do
2019-11-15T02:23:39 < Cracki> must be a combination of desensitization and all that stuff being watered down
2019-11-15T02:24:25 < jadew> do you think scatofiles are most likely to choose this line of work?
2019-11-15T02:25:12 < Cracki> like pyromaniacs become fire fighters? I hope not
2019-11-15T02:25:30 < Cracki> looks like normal professional humor
2019-11-15T02:25:37 < jadew> https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-4470148/Bangladesh-sewer-cleaner-dive-liquid-filth.html
2019-11-15T02:26:07 < Cracki> they have a billion people, they can afford to sink a few
2019-11-15T02:26:46 < jadew> lol, someone in the comments asks if there are any feminists demanding equality representation for that job
2019-11-15T02:26:58 < Cracki> they should beg whitey for that water jet technology
2019-11-15T02:27:13 < Cracki> fuck yeah women quota in sewage work!
2019-11-15T02:28:02 < Cracki> they do make a holiday of rubbing themselves in cow shit
2019-11-15T02:33:24 < jadew> that water jet thing is brilliant
2019-11-15T02:36:51 < jadew> I sure hope the neighbour kids weren't on the other side of the fence when the stream of water and shit got launched into the air
2019-11-15T02:38:17 < jadew> anyway, it seems very messy
2019-11-15T02:38:49 < jadew> if this is regular maintenance, it could be simpler to just poop in a hole in the ground and cover it when it's full
2019-11-15T02:39:25 < jadew> the owner of the house has shit all over that room under the house and in his garden
2019-11-15T02:39:26 < Cracki> this isn't regular
2019-11-15T02:39:39 < Cracki> this is when non-shit gets stuck
2019-11-15T02:40:13 < Cracki> in that or the other video he asks if they flush sanitary wipes... because those don't dissolve into paper mache like toilet paper does
2019-11-15T02:40:47 < Cracki> the only time I had a shower drain clog was when long haired people lived in the flatshare
2019-11-15T02:41:56 < Cracki> in another video, a buried pipe came undone and then roots grew into it. he sent an endoscope down to look
2019-11-15T02:43:11 < jadew> that's a very high tech plumber
2019-11-15T02:43:50 < Cracki> craftsmen collect ever more badass tools because some job required it
2019-11-15T02:44:02 < jadew> "Bet he’s never had an issue with people nicking his tools!"
2019-11-15T02:44:10 < Cracki> heh
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2019-11-15T03:01:01 < aandrew> jesus that was a nasty video
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2019-11-15T03:10:27 < Laurenceb_> uh oh
2019-11-15T03:10:42 < Laurenceb_> video must have been bad
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2019-11-15T03:11:15  * Laurenceb_ just met Sargon irl
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2019-11-15T03:11:27 < Laurenceb_> he is a physical and intellectual midget
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2019-11-15T03:16:04 < aandrew> wtf is sargon
2019-11-15T03:18:26 < Laurenceb_> sargon of akkad
2019-11-15T03:22:05 < doomba> stm32argon of allah akbar
2019-11-15T03:23:08 < Laurenceb_> he is so freaking small
2019-11-15T03:23:42 < Laurenceb_> some epin troll in the audience got him cornered on feminism which was funny
2019-11-15T03:24:04 < Laurenceb_> >if we blame feminism for everything isnt that just identity politics?
2019-11-15T03:29:20 < Laurenceb_> Sargon: yeah I think we need to look for the deeper causes that lie behind things
2019-11-15T03:30:17 < Cracki> did he just say that it's genetic
2019-11-15T03:31:34 < Laurenceb_> >so you are saying that there are organised people operating behind the scenes to divide and rule us?
2019-11-15T03:32:08 < Laurenceb_> Sargon: u-uh y-yeah you mean l-like cultural marxists right? I dont do conspiracy theories tbh
2019-11-15T03:32:22 < Laurenceb_> he was getting rather stressed out lmao
2019-11-15T03:33:33 < Laurenceb_> I asked him about Israel and he said he though they were the most democratic middle eastern country and were unfairly treated
2019-11-15T03:34:29 < Laurenceb_> I was cringing hard
2019-11-15T03:35:38 < aandrew> it's abolutely weird that people have their water heaters just out in the yard like that
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2019-11-15T03:42:00 < Laurenceb_> anyway he got me a free drink, substribestar is good for something
2019-11-15T03:46:13 < aandrew> man that drain cleaning jet is something
2019-11-15T04:06:22 < jadew> aandrew, it's probably for safety reasons
2019-11-15T04:07:01 < jadew> in here, they have to be located in a dedicated room that has a door (has to be closed)
2019-11-15T04:07:05 < jadew> and a window
2019-11-15T04:12:26 < aandrew> hm here you have restrictions about being too close to a wall but it's always just beside the furnace
2019-11-15T04:32:43 < Laurenceb_> the postmodern cultural marxists!!
2019-11-15T04:36:43 < Laurenceb_> the MC was pretty funny "to show your appreciation, please clap, laugh, or honk"
2019-11-15T04:36:55 < kakipr0> postmodern lurenceb
2019-11-15T04:37:13 < kakipr0> howe is jubbs?
2019-11-15T04:37:22 < kakipr0> do you move to americas?
2019-11-15T04:38:46 < Laurenceb_> nah, quitting my jerb in a few weeks
2019-11-15T04:38:56 < Laurenceb_> still in bongland
2019-11-15T04:39:14 < Laurenceb_> I'm stuck on an island with sargon of akkad and count dankula
2019-11-15T04:39:30 < Laurenceb_> oh "anitfembot" was there too
2019-11-15T04:39:34 < Laurenceb_> *anti
2019-11-15T04:39:58 < Laurenceb_> she is really freaking weird and about 3 feet tall
2019-11-15T04:40:55 < Laurenceb_> she doesnt seem to understand personal space or boundaries
2019-11-15T04:41:20 < kakipr0> ?
2019-11-15T04:41:45 < Laurenceb_> I was asking Sargon about Israel and she kept prodding me
2019-11-15T04:42:16 < Laurenceb_> also she was wearing leather bdsm style gear and stank of cannabis
2019-11-15T04:42:37 < Laurenceb_> I finally found an event where I was the most normal person
2019-11-15T04:42:44 < kakipr0> did she use you?
2019-11-15T04:42:55 < kakipr0> physically
2019-11-15T04:43:07 < Laurenceb_> lolno
2019-11-15T04:43:37 < Laurenceb_> she seems completely braindead, just nods and agrees to whatever the rest of them are saying about the cultural marxists
2019-11-15T04:45:39 < Laurenceb_> thankfully I managed to avoid appearing on the youtube livestream
2019-11-15T04:45:48 < Laurenceb_> so I might be safe from /cow/
2019-11-15T04:45:52  * Laurenceb_ zzz
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2019-11-15T04:47:06 < jadew> Laurenceb_, so who are you a fan of?
2019-11-15T04:47:10 < jadew> Sargon?
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2019-11-15T05:46:27 < kakinull> interesting glitch
2019-11-15T05:46:43 < kakinull> reboot and nordvpn autoconnects to australia
2019-11-15T05:47:13 < kakinull> maybe it was delayed input to pop up screen or something
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2019-11-15T06:37:46 < bitmask> hmm
2019-11-15T06:38:04 < bitmask> brass isn't as good a conductor as I hoped, 
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2019-11-15T06:38:51 < kakinull> it's used widelly as conductor
2019-11-15T06:39:39 < kakinull> most of the connectors have it in contacts
2019-11-15T06:40:38 < buZz> https://pocket.popcorncomputer.com/ - very fancy STM32F103C8T6 devboard
2019-11-15T06:40:41 < buZz> :P
2019-11-15T06:40:45 < bitmask> oh yea?
2019-11-15T06:41:04 < bitmask> I saw a video of someone using brass eyelets, about 3-4 per battery terminal to wire up pouch cells
2019-11-15T06:41:30 < bitmask> I made the mistake of ordering some before reading more
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2019-11-15T06:41:58 < bitmask> apparently its 28% as conductive as copper, just under half of aluminum
2019-11-15T06:42:30 < kakinull> sure
2019-11-15T06:43:12 < kakinull> it's compensated with larger material cross section and contact area
2019-11-15T06:43:42 < bitmask> anyway to calculate  a safe number of eyelets to use?
2019-11-15T06:44:34 < kakinull> highschool physics
2019-11-15T06:45:10 < bitmask> yea yea, I need the dimensions first though
2019-11-15T06:45:35 < kakinull> indeed
2019-11-15T06:47:01 < kakinull> what eyelets?
2019-11-15T06:47:06 < kakinull> what are you doing?
2019-11-15T06:51:06 < bitmask> I ordered copper and brass eyelets, I dont think the copper are strong enough but maybe doing half and half will be fine. 
2019-11-15T06:51:15 < bitmask> connecting battery tabs
2019-11-15T06:53:43 < bitmask> meh I think a few would be plenty to handle 15A, its going to be holding the battery tabs in contact too
2019-11-15T06:57:34 < bitmask> a 4mm via with plating thickness of 0.1mm and length of 4mm has an ampacity of 32A
2019-11-15T06:58:16 < bitmask> its probably thicker than .1 too
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2019-11-15T11:56:49 < karlp> buZz: Finally, a handheld Linux device with a high-definition
2019-11-15T11:56:51 < karlp> 1080p display and large battery life. 
2019-11-15T11:56:53 < karlp> so.... a phone?
2019-11-15T11:56:56 < karlp> I don't get it.
2019-11-15T11:58:37 < karlp> I really don't get why you put lora on a device like that either
2019-11-15T11:59:26 < BrainDamage> I guess they wanted for devices to be able to talk to eachother, but adding a cell modem would open a whole can of worms of regulations
2019-11-15T12:00:43 < BrainDamage> the price for that is a bit prohibitive though
2019-11-15T12:02:11 < BrainDamage> also phones cannot really run linux because of the whole patching/kernel driver shenanigan, i know postmarketos exists, but as the feature matrix shows it's barely functional
2019-11-15T12:07:35 < zyp> strictly speaking, every android phone runs the linux kernel
2019-11-15T12:10:53 < BrainDamage> yes, but that's a kinda useless view for the user, since the drivers are either not released, or released for a heavily patched kernel which won't present the usual userspace
2019-11-15T12:11:53 < karlp> I'm still curious who the target is for this sort of thing.
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2019-11-15T12:45:05 < Thorn> spacewalk https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=evaBhht5uGA
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2019-11-15T15:07:51 < Ultrasauce> that looks like a real pain in the ass
2019-11-15T15:08:07 < Ultrasauce> fumbling with one-off tools wearing huge pressurized gloves
2019-11-15T15:10:17 < aandrew> running linux on a phone isnt' an issue, never has been
2019-11-15T15:10:37 < aandrew> the broadband processor isn't running linux, that's what the caveat is
2019-11-15T15:10:53 < BrainDamage> a chroot is not a real functional linux, since it has no hw access
2019-11-15T15:11:17 < aandrew> who says hardware access is a requirement? by that measure every VM is not a real functional linux
2019-11-15T15:11:41 < BrainDamage> a VM replicates virtual hardware
2019-11-15T15:11:56 < aandrew> does not have to
2019-11-15T15:12:02 < aandrew> that's a really weird definition of "functional"
2019-11-15T15:12:03 < BrainDamage> and can passthrough the real one
2019-11-15T15:12:13 < BrainDamage> while there there's no translation layer
2019-11-15T15:12:41 < BrainDamage> I run myself a linux chroot since many many years, but it's limited in what can it do
2019-11-15T15:12:51 < BrainDamage> for instance you don't even get access to the sleep scheduler
2019-11-15T15:12:58 < BrainDamage> unless you run as root
2019-11-15T15:13:16 < aandrew> but again that is an oddly specific definition of functional
2019-11-15T15:13:35 < BrainDamage> not being able to wake from sleep I wouldn't call it very functional for a phone
2019-11-15T15:13:46 < BrainDamage> I wouldn't even call a computer functional
2019-11-15T15:14:11 < aandrew> funny, becuase back in the day *nobody* was concerned about power management and they were plenty functional
2019-11-15T15:14:52 < BrainDamage> I am someone?
2019-11-15T15:14:54 < aandrew> as far as a phone's concerned, you can add a call to whatever hypervisor to give up your timeslice in your kernel's idle loop
2019-11-15T15:15:14 < BrainDamage> yes, but you need that translation layer
2019-11-15T15:15:18 < aandrew> what I'm saying is you're being overly generic in saying "if it can't access hardware, it's useless"
2019-11-15T15:15:19 < BrainDamage> which isn't written
2019-11-15T15:15:36 < BrainDamage> I am stricly speaking from a user pov, it's extremely limited
2019-11-15T15:15:55 < BrainDamage> if you code a whole thing from scratch, I'm sure you can even ditch the android kernel
2019-11-15T15:16:07 < BrainDamage> the difference is amount of efforts needed to get stuff to work
2019-11-15T15:18:04 < aandrew> sure, but really on a phone there's little more a kernle can provide than context switching, everything is is in APIs for the display, mic/speaker, sensors and of course data access
2019-11-15T15:18:59 < aandrew> I haven't written an android app but I'm quite sure that no apps that use those features actually hit up a kernel or access /dev/x directly, they all use android APIs which are that middle layer that ultimately hits the kenrel
2019-11-15T15:19:03 < aandrew> kernel
2019-11-15T15:20:27 < Thorn> https://www.thedrive.com/the-war-zone/31033/this-is-how-the-russian-military-tests-if-its-vehicles-can-stand-up-to-a-nuclear-blast
2019-11-15T15:27:17 < Ultrasauce> i've never touched a microcontroller in my life but i am quite sure that the vendor HAL is all anyone needs
2019-11-15T15:28:10 < qyx> no.
2019-11-15T15:39:57 < aandrew> Ultrasauce: you don't even need the HAL
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2019-11-15T15:45:45 < Ultrasauce> missing the point
2019-11-15T15:47:32 < aandrew> perhaps it's not well made?
2019-11-15T15:48:54 < Ultrasauce> okay i'll be more blunt. you're talking out your ass
2019-11-15T15:49:42 < Ultrasauce> the android api is insufficient for many use cases and many applications use the kernel and other userspace apis directly
2019-11-15T15:49:52 < karlp> _still_ don't know who the target is for a "not quite a phone" with a tiny little keyboard on the side.
2019-11-15T15:50:11 < englishman> ^
2019-11-15T15:50:22 < englishman> surely a 2001 hiptop is better
2019-11-15T15:50:43 < aandrew> I prefer blunt, thank you
2019-11-15T15:51:05 < karlp> I'm sure you could make some controllers with it, but there's no reason that needs to be "proper userspace" vs android (either NDK or the regular sdk)
2019-11-15T15:51:31 < aandrew> That is a spectacularly broken system in that case. so you're accessing the kernel via java or whatever the fuck the preferred android language is now?
2019-11-15T15:52:33 < karlp> you don't access the kernel. youdon't know or care about the kernel.
2019-11-15T15:52:37 < karlp> you have android apis.
2019-11-15T15:52:39 < karlp> you use them.
2019-11-15T15:52:42 < karlp> it's fine.
2019-11-15T15:52:49 < aandrew> that's not what ultrasauce is saying
2019-11-15T15:55:12 < Ultrasauce> hes talking about a specific use case and i am not
2019-11-15T15:56:03 < aandrew> Ultrasauce: actually I was talking about the basics: calls, multimedia, sensors and data
2019-11-15T15:56:34 < Ultrasauce> multimedia is definitely not one of the basics
2019-11-15T15:56:51 < Ultrasauce> and in many cases does necessitate a native application
2019-11-15T15:56:53 < aandrew> really? that's a pretty big failing even 5y ago
2019-11-15T15:57:18 < BrainDamage> you need to use openmax il for multimedia, which is kinda separate from the android api
2019-11-15T15:57:20 < Ultrasauce> well i'll let you know when it suddenly becomes easy
2019-11-15T15:57:22 < BrainDamage> same way opengl is
2019-11-15T15:57:56 < aandrew> but that's my point: the app is not calling the kernel for raw /dev/mem access or othewise talking to the kernel. it's using the APIs
2019-11-15T15:58:18 < Ultrasauce> spoilers, /dev/mem is an api
2019-11-15T15:58:20 < aandrew> the standard libraries that ok, maybe aren't or weren't part of android proper but are the generic and accepted ways to do this
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2019-11-15T15:58:29 < aandrew> oh fuck ultrasauce you just want to be a pedantic fuck
2019-11-15T15:58:45 < kakipr0> pedantic fucking
2019-11-15T15:58:54 < BrainDamage> no software under linux uses openmax il
2019-11-15T15:59:02 < BrainDamage> for large values of 'no'
2019-11-15T15:59:39 < BrainDamage> so even if it's a well known interface, you still cannot use it
2019-11-15T16:00:06 < Ultrasauce> and what do those standard libraries interface to aandrew?
2019-11-15T16:00:29 < Ultrasauce> im still not seeing what you're getting at other than exuding ignorance
2019-11-15T16:01:21 < Ultrasauce> if you are saying the android java api exposes all the functionality every application needs, you're strictly incorrect
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2019-11-15T16:07:16 < Ultrasauce> and to be clear it's a real shitshow. a native android application has a choice of 3-4 different implementations of libc
2019-11-15T16:08:31 < ac_slater> hey guys, I fixed the SPI problem I was having over the last few days. I had an STM32 master and an MSP430 slave. Turns out, the slave was doing so much processing in the Rx interrupt handler that it was nesting itself
2019-11-15T16:08:33 < ac_slater> phew
2019-11-15T16:10:33 < karlp> heh
2019-11-15T16:10:48 < karlp> are you still in 1,1 mode? you weren't actually hitting the msp430 errata then at all?
2019-11-15T16:11:39 < ac_slater> karlp: there is something interesting
2019-11-15T16:11:48 < ac_slater> I HAVE to run the STM32 master in 2EDGE, low polarity mode
2019-11-15T16:11:54 < ac_slater> and the MSP in high polarity mode
2019-11-15T16:12:25 < karlp> 2 edge being your name for one of the phase setting bit?
2019-11-15T16:12:43 < ac_slater> karlp: no the STM32 has a differentiation. There is a third setting
2019-11-15T16:12:47 < ac_slater> (finding the reference)
2019-11-15T16:14:11 < ac_slater> oh you're right
2019-11-15T16:14:14 < karlp> what hardware are you on? I don't rememebr any 2EDGE bits in any stm32 spi periph I've seen
2019-11-15T16:14:15 < ac_slater> yea Phase is two edge
2019-11-15T16:14:26 < karlp> right ok.
2019-11-15T16:14:33 < ac_slater> It's an STM32F413ZHT on a Nucleo
2019-11-15T16:14:40 < karlp> I would still maintain that somethings wrong if you needed different settings at each end.
2019-11-15T16:14:58 < karlp> bear in mind that some implementations will do "phase,pol" and some will do "pol, phase"
2019-11-15T16:15:07 < ac_slater> oh good point
2019-11-15T16:15:13 < ac_slater> I'll take a look at that, I super appreciate the help
2019-11-15T16:15:29 < ac_slater> my hack was the sleep 500ns between each transmit byte from the master
2019-11-15T16:15:32 < ac_slater> which is terrible
2019-11-15T16:15:34 < karlp> but the "resolved" meaning of which edges are sampled and which expectations of lines _should_ be consistent on both.
2019-11-15T16:15:42 < ac_slater> karlp: I agree
2019-11-15T16:16:18 < karlp> though some slaves do stuff like, "sampels incoming data on leading edge, output data is valid on falling edge"
2019-11-15T16:16:27 < karlp> but aiui, that's all still "the same"
2019-11-15T16:16:51 < ac_slater> right
2019-11-15T16:16:59 < ac_slater> I super appreciate the help mate
2019-11-15T16:17:53 < karlp> so, can you tell us what this https://pocket.popcorncomputer.com/ is for then?
2019-11-15T16:18:01 < ac_slater> I'm having another concern that I think you guys have come across. I don't think I want my UART interrupt handlers to be nested. Is it normal to disable nesting?
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2019-11-15T16:18:21 < karlp> IMO, you want nesting so that the "normal" uses of nesting works correctly,
2019-11-15T16:18:23 < ac_slater> that form factor is terrible
2019-11-15T16:18:31 < karlp> you just want to fix your isr so that it doesn't take so long.
2019-11-15T16:18:46 < ac_slater> karlp: yea
2019-11-15T16:18:51 < ac_slater> add another queue
2019-11-15T16:19:01 < ac_slater> it's hard to prove that it's nesting
2019-11-15T16:19:03 < karlp> I have no insight into the rest of your sw architecture.
2019-11-15T16:19:28 < karlp> but yes, classicaly, rx byte irqs would just be stuffing into rings/queues for someone else to be draining.
2019-11-15T16:19:59 < ac_slater> yea I do call a few functions there that do the stuffing. I'll have to stuff, unstuff, then process
2019-11-15T16:20:03 < ac_slater> thanks I figured that was smarter
2019-11-15T16:35:05 < ac_slater> karlp: I guess the last thing I'll ask is about using the HAL in this case
2019-11-15T16:35:07 < ac_slater> https://paste.debian.net/plain/1116384
2019-11-15T16:35:50 < ac_slater> karlp: the HAL will call this on Rx interrupt, I call my function (which can take 50-100us), then reenable. My assumption is the nesting is "off" until I reenable it
2019-11-15T16:38:57 < karlp> why is your freertosawarefunction not just "xQueueSendFromISR()" ?
2019-11-15T16:40:26 < ac_slater> karlp: yea I'll probably have to change it to that. But I thought I was safe not doing that since I explicitly "re-enabled the interrupt" after the call
2019-11-15T16:40:44 < ac_slater> then I remember the handler is nested and the HAL might not be reminding me of that
2019-11-15T16:41:16 < ac_slater> remembered * 
2019-11-15T16:44:03 < karlp> not familiar with hal sorry
2019-11-15T16:44:11 < ac_slater> ah ok good
2019-11-15T16:44:17 < ac_slater> I'm starting to hate it
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2019-11-15T17:29:07 < aandrew> ac_slater: what're you trying to do there
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2019-11-15T17:29:52 < aandrew> I just typically take data received and stuff it into a FIFO
2019-11-15T17:30:03 < aandrew> or take data from a FIFO and stuff it into hardware for the opposite direction
2019-11-15T17:31:40 < ac_slater> aandrew: yea the call there freertos_aware_func() does stuff into a fifo but it does some small things
2019-11-15T17:31:53 < karlp> "small" :)
2019-11-15T17:32:45 < ac_slater> yea actually it is a bit of stuff
2019-11-15T17:32:57 < ac_slater> an intermediate fifo would be better
2019-11-15T17:33:25 < ac_slater> BUT, I'm glad I fudged that since it made me think about 1) nested interrupts, 2) if a Rx interrupt fifo of 1 byte makes sense
2019-11-15T17:33:49 < ac_slater> I was assuming I had full control over the interrupt (And its internal fifo)
2019-11-15T17:34:07 < ac_slater> since I manually reactive the interrupt in HAL_UART_Receive_IT
2019-11-15T17:35:15 < ac_slater> reactivate * 
2019-11-15T17:35:47 < karlp> what internal fifo?
2019-11-15T17:37:28 < karlp> does magically put a fifo in? because there's no hardware fifo on the uart.
2019-11-15T17:38:28 < aandrew> the general rule is to make your ISR as fast as possible, get in, do something and get out, fast
2019-11-15T17:38:52 < aandrew> usually that means just transferring the data and flagging something else... fast
2019-11-15T17:39:13 < aandrew> if your protocol handles it well, DMA can be useful here
2019-11-15T17:39:36 < aandrew> right, that was a design decision due to DMA being available I think
2019-11-15T18:23:02 < ac_slater> karlp: sorry I missed this
2019-11-15T18:23:36 < ac_slater> karlp: you give the HAL_UART_Receive_IT() a memory buffer. I give it a single byte.
2019-11-15T18:24:09 < ac_slater> My fear came in when reading the HAL and they don't use the size passed into that call to decide if they should continue
2019-11-15T18:24:30 < ac_slater> ie - they map my buffer into pData then do `*pData++ = ...`
2019-11-15T18:25:23 < ac_slater> I'm trying to bound it to one byte since I didn't want to do what is typically done on other platforms of having to maintain a ring buffer from that interface. I just wanted to dump in bytes into my freertos fifo
2019-11-15T18:26:01 < ac_slater> but I don't know if the memory address I pass into HAL_UART_Receive_IT() should be calculated from the baud rate
2019-11-15T18:38:39 < aandrew> wow nice, I got the full design files (including altium design files) for my D6 VNA/SNA
2019-11-15T18:39:10 < aandrew> ac_slater: one moment I'll give you the code I've been using. it should be easily adaptable
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2019-11-15T18:41:44 < ac_slater> sweet, I'm sure I'm just putting too much trust in the HAL
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2019-11-15T18:45:58 < aandrew> fff
2019-11-15T18:46:04 < Laurenceb_> argg Sargon
2019-11-15T18:46:12 < Laurenceb_> I have a headache
2019-11-15T18:46:22 < Laurenceb_> I hope he didnt rohypnol my drink
2019-11-15T18:47:15 < aandrew> stupid airport wifi
2019-11-15T18:48:21 < aandrew> ac_slater: https://pastebin.com/w5kL8b9Z and https://pastebin.com/8Q52zz92
2019-11-15T18:48:36 < ac_slater> dope!
2019-11-15T18:49:55 < aandrew> https://pastebin.com/HwQ26VeM is the fifo.h header file
2019-11-15T18:50:10 < aandrew> alright gotta put this shit away. chat again from the sky
2019-11-15T18:53:03 < ac_slater> aandrew: thanks! I really appreciate it. This looks pretty damn close to what the HAL is doing
2019-11-15T18:53:11 < ac_slater> and how freertos Fifos work.
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2019-11-15T19:22:45 < ac_slater> so, I made my UART interrupt callback simply blink an LED. I tried send large data to my device and it immediately crashes. So maybe I can't do a receive buffer of 1 byte.
2019-11-15T19:38:18 < kakipr0> why would you do receive buffer and have it size of 1byte?
2019-11-15T19:39:19 < karlp> _crashes_ ?
2019-11-15T19:39:36 < karlp> I mean, if you can't blink the led faster than the baud rate you have something really wrong goign on...
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2019-11-15T19:41:31 < ac_slater> kakipr0: the HAL interface for UART Rx can take a buffer and just write to it. But, there is no way to know how many bytes are there when your callback gets called
2019-11-15T19:42:48 < ac_slater> so I just do 1 byte, hoping that my interrupt callback can be completed in time
2019-11-15T19:42:56 < kakipr0> so
2019-11-15T19:43:02 < kakipr0> you overflow
2019-11-15T19:43:17 < ac_slater> karlp: I don't see crashes, just the Rx interrupt gets disabled entirely
2019-11-15T19:43:40 < kakipr0> maybe it happens when buffer is full
2019-11-15T19:43:41 < ac_slater> kakipr0: I think so , but I put breakpoints in the HAL where overflows are detected and none hit
2019-11-15T19:43:53 < kakipr0> makes all sense
2019-11-15T19:43:55  * karlp thinks you're just having hal weirdness.
2019-11-15T19:44:17 < karlp> sorry, I'm used to having the irq yourself and doing what you want, no surprises and no fifos and no turning irqs on and off.
2019-11-15T19:44:18 < ac_slater> yea same
2019-11-15T19:44:23 < karlp> you just clear the flag in the irq.
2019-11-15T19:44:27 < karlp> no need to enable/disable things.
2019-11-15T19:44:36 < kakipr0> do you use software handler or rom-based handler?
2019-11-15T19:44:39 < ac_slater> I should just use the LL driver for UART. I would have though the HAL would have got that right if anything
2019-11-15T19:44:47 < ac_slater> kakipr0: it's software
2019-11-15T19:45:08 < ac_slater> sadly it calls memcpy() as well (well, freertos does)
2019-11-15T19:46:18 < kakipr0> so
2019-11-15T19:46:25 < kakipr0> is only uart interrupt disabled
2019-11-15T19:46:26 < kakipr0> or
2019-11-15T19:46:43 < kakipr0> wider set of interrupts?
2019-11-15T19:47:01 < kakipr0> ac_slater: did you cube your freertos code?
2019-11-15T19:47:35 < kakipr0> http://www.nadler.com/embedded/newlibAndFreeRTOS.html read those orange boxes
2019-11-15T19:48:11 < kakipr0> he provides newlib heap implementation there
2019-11-15T19:51:11 < ac_slater> kakipr0: yea I'm using that ;)
2019-11-15T19:51:44 < ac_slater> I've tried without that too
2019-11-15T19:51:50 < ac_slater> I'm not sure about the other interrupts
2019-11-15T19:51:59 < ac_slater> it's such a weird issue I don't know how to debug
2019-11-15T19:52:16 < ac_slater> the board seems to be operating on my other interfaces, so it seems like UART is effected
2019-11-15T19:53:00 < ac_slater> I simplified it to this: UARTRxInterrupt(1 byte) -> GPIO toggle + send_byte_to_queue()
2019-11-15T19:54:00 < kakipr0> interrupts
2019-11-15T19:54:12 < ac_slater> oh right. I only enable a single UART
2019-11-15T19:55:08 < ac_slater> I made a freertos task pop the queue and output back to the UART - like an echo device
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2019-11-15T19:55:27 < ac_slater> if I type slow it works, but if I spam it quickly the interrupt gets disabled
2019-11-15T19:56:44 < ac_slater> I wonder if I NEED to use Tx interrupts if I using Rx interrupts
2019-11-15T19:56:54 < ac_slater> cause now I'm doing Rx interrupt and Tx direct write
2019-11-15T19:59:43 < kakipr0> blocking write?
2019-11-15T19:59:46 < ac_slater> yea
2019-11-15T19:59:56 < jadew> Cracki, regarding the video from last night - I wonder what women would choose: fishermman or toilet plumber
2019-11-15T20:00:05 < ac_slater> I'm digging though the HAL to see if that's a problem
2019-11-15T20:00:14 < Cracki> fisherman, they should be used to the smell
2019-11-15T20:00:23 < jadew> hahaha
2019-11-15T20:00:40 < Cracki> otoh those with "frontholes" are said to suffer from the second kind of smell
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2019-11-15T20:05:36 < kakipr0> ac_slater: just do non-blocking write
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2019-11-15T20:10:06 < ac_slater> kakipr0: yea tried that. Seems a bit better
2019-11-15T20:10:18 < ac_slater> but I can still make it stop by typing fast or blasting some data
2019-11-15T20:11:12 < kakipr0> how do you know your rx interrupt becomes disabled?
2019-11-15T20:12:06 < ac_slater> I had an LED toggle in there and it stops responding. I put a breakpoint in there too and it doesnt get hit
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2019-11-15T20:13:33 < kakipr0> in handler?
2019-11-15T20:14:20 < ac_slater> yea
2019-11-15T20:14:42 < kakipr0> you may want to check with debugger your basepri and primask
2019-11-15T20:16:21 < kakipr0> idk. just an idea
2019-11-15T20:17:35 < ac_slater> yea man, I'll take a look. I've never had to debug this before
2019-11-15T20:17:49 < ac_slater> I've never had to debug an interrupt mechanism. Seems fun ;)
2019-11-15T20:19:16 < kakipr0> yes
2019-11-15T20:19:26 < kakipr0> with freertos involved
2019-11-15T20:19:41 < ac_slater> I'm using the official ARM_C4F port from ST
2019-11-15T20:19:50 < ac_slater> I hoped I would have to do this 
2019-11-15T20:20:43 < Cracki> I hear freertos. do I hear HAL too?
2019-11-15T20:21:02 < Cracki> or newlib?
2019-11-15T20:21:19 < ac_slater> yea all of those
2019-11-15T20:21:24 < ac_slater> I'm doing my best to make them all work together
2019-11-15T20:21:46 < ac_slater> so far no heap issues thanks thanks to adjusted heap. And I'm using FRT 10.2.0 which is the newest and fixes some newlib stuff
2019-11-15T20:24:25 < jpa-> https://www.digikey.fi/product-detail/en/amphenol-icc-fci/67996-200HLF/609-5098-1-ND/5968543   so if i buy 45000 positions of this, will it ship in 50 meter long package?
2019-11-15T20:25:31 < Cracki> cubemx fails to configure freertos for use with newlib. they're "busy" fixing that
2019-11-15T20:25:48 < Cracki> yes, the issue is primarily fucked heap handling
2019-11-15T20:26:01 < ac_slater> cubemx just spits out weird prios, I fixed that
2019-11-15T20:26:15 < ac_slater> things are working for the most part, I just can't seem to use freertos :p
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2019-11-15T20:27:32 < ac_slater> they push CMSIS and I'm not using that
2019-11-15T20:29:41 < kakipr0> freertos uses some cmsis stuff
2019-11-15T20:30:21 < kakipr0> port may use it
2019-11-15T20:30:48 < kakipr0> also some symbols may be referenced in freertos_config.h
2019-11-15T20:31:13 < kakipr0> where priority symbols are defined
2019-11-15T20:33:17 < Steffanx> Is kakipr0 alright? Do you know?
2019-11-15T20:34:09 < kakipr0> likelly not
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2019-11-15T20:50:24 < ac_slater> kakipr0: yea I went through all of that
2019-11-15T20:50:37 < ac_slater> cubemx doesn't play nice with it so I had to adjust a lot in the "user code" sections
2019-11-15T20:50:44 < ac_slater> and the freertos config does do prio mappings and such
2019-11-15T20:51:30 < kakipr0> your problem might be priority problem
2019-11-15T20:51:38 < kakipr0> what is your uart interrupt priority?
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2019-11-15T21:39:56 < qyx> karlp: could you add to zypsnips? or you want a pr? https://www.ieee.li/pdf/viewgraphs/se
2019-11-15T21:39:59 < qyx> lecting_the_appropriate_circuit_protection_component.pdf
2019-11-15T21:40:42 < Steffanx> pull request :P
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2019-11-15T21:56:04 < karlp> ac_slater: did you sort it out? just bite the bullet and have tx queues and rx quques and watch everythign "just start working"
2019-11-15T21:56:11 < karlp> qyx:yar prs man
2019-11-15T21:57:05 < ac_slater> karlp: I'm trying man. I have the SIMPLEST stuff you can imagine. 
2019-11-15T21:57:24 < ac_slater> I think a hint was I had to use UART Tx interrupts instead of blocking Tx
2019-11-15T21:57:40 < ac_slater> I think if I was in HAL_UART_Write or whatever and I got an interrupt, then the HAL deadlocked
2019-11-15T22:12:34 < kakipr0> I think there is only couple of schematic pages to go
2019-11-15T22:12:55 < kakipr0> I did the whole module interface just now
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2019-11-15T22:17:36 < kakipr0> I wonder if I should maybe add some ferrites to logic power lines provided by host to module
2019-11-15T22:20:48 < Steffanx> Dont forget some BFC.
2019-11-15T22:21:26 < kakipr0> BFC?
2019-11-15T22:21:28 < Steffanx> or FBC, not sure what the right order is.
2019-11-15T22:21:34 < kakipr0> tell me
2019-11-15T22:21:36 < Steffanx> Fucking Big Capacitor.
2019-11-15T22:21:37 < kakipr0> pr0 tips now
2019-11-15T22:21:40 < kakipr0> oh
2019-11-15T22:21:42 < Steffanx> :P
2019-11-15T22:21:59 < kakipr0> Big Fucking Capacitors
2019-11-15T22:22:03 < Steffanx> Will you ever take me serious, kakipr0?
2019-11-15T22:22:15 < kakipr0> you are not fooling me
2019-11-15T22:23:18 < kakipr0> https://drive.google.com/file/d/1BXsNmxF7F8MjSaEC0U7_wFbam4bPzMNR/view?usp=sharing innovation
2019-11-15T22:24:49 < kakipr0> there is flexibility to make non-mcu modules with those config lines
2019-11-15T22:26:32 < kakipr0> highest battery voltage tips off smaller voltage battery modules it's not good idea to switch to DCBUS
2019-11-15T22:26:45 < kakipr0> at least with low-ohmic path
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2019-11-15T22:31:26 < kakipr0> supplys do not directly source to DCBUS but CHARGEBUS with CV max.30V
2019-11-15T22:31:58 < Steffanx> sooon youll need some fpga/cpld.
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2019-11-15T22:32:10 < kakipr0> I think my f107 pins will be enough
2019-11-15T22:32:18 < kakipr0> there is like 10BSRs total
2019-11-15T22:33:36 < kakipr0> yeah.. 10 is pretty close
2019-11-15T22:33:42 < Steffanx> time for a cpld :P
2019-11-15T22:33:45 < Steffanx> ro fpga
2019-11-15T22:33:55 < kakipr0> sounds power hungry
2019-11-15T22:34:25 < kakipr0> and i would go for atmel SAMA5d21 first
2019-11-15T22:35:15 < kakipr0> how many logic inputs f107's SPI could drive in paraller stef?
2019-11-15T22:35:48 < kakipr0> I think I should find another SPI to dedicate for flash
2019-11-15T22:37:16 < Steffanx> why in parallel?
2019-11-15T22:38:21 < Steffanx> daisy chain 500 of em
2019-11-15T22:41:28 < kakipr0> I have pins for RCLKs
2019-11-15T22:41:34 < kakipr0> enough pins in mcu*
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2019-11-15T23:14:24 < qyx> jffs2 does not allow 4K erase blocks
2019-11-15T23:14:30 < qyx> wtf
2019-11-15T23:14:48 < qyx> what other filesystem could I use for SPI NOR?
2019-11-15T23:15:33 < kakipr0> fat12
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2019-11-15T23:16:12 < kakipr0> just throwing words
2019-11-15T23:16:19 < kakipr0> how is project qyx?
2019-11-15T23:16:25 < qyx> which one
2019-11-15T23:16:33 < qyx> the great one?
2019-11-15T23:16:33 < kakipr0> oh :o
2019-11-15T23:16:39 < kakipr0> the greatest
2019-11-15T23:16:46 < qyx> progressing slowly
2019-11-15T23:17:11 < kakipr0> I'm 30 schematics in and slowly I see light at the end of tunnel
2019-11-15T23:17:26 < kakipr0> then there is the fun part
2019-11-15T23:24:13 < karlp> qyx: isn't that jsut a cofngi option?
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2019-11-15T23:26:42 < qyx> some say the FS may not work at all
2019-11-15T23:27:16 < qyx> in the mkfs.jffs2 manpage it is said the FS may not perform optimally
2019-11-15T23:27:36 < qyx> I see lots of jffs2: notice: (95) jffs2_get_inode_nodes: Node header CRC failed at 0x0c9e08. {bbaf,fabb,bbbbabfa,ffbbeaba}
2019-11-15T23:28:11 < karlp> hrm, I think oepnwrt uses it, on various sized flash targets, 
2019-11-15T23:28:16 < karlp> there was a thread even on it recently.
2019-11-15T23:28:31 < qyx> I have files randomly missing
2019-11-15T23:28:36 < qyx> or changing their contents
2019-11-15T23:28:48 < karlp> which jffs2 are you suing?
2019-11-15T23:28:52 < karlp> I think there's patchsets?
2019-11-15T23:29:12 < qyx> the one in 4.19 kernel
2019-11-15T23:30:16 < karlp> PaulFertser: wasn't this something you were looking at?
2019-11-15T23:35:09 < kakipr0> I have still 7pins free steff
2019-11-15T23:35:34 < kakipr0> analog inputs and pwm outputs then
2019-11-15T23:37:16 < PaulFertser> karlp: yes, OpenWrt is using jffs2 almost everywhere.  And it works with 4K erase blocks qyx 
2019-11-15T23:37:41 < BrainDamage> jif fs
2019-11-15T23:37:43 < PaulFertser> qyx: have you just enabled 4K erase sectors?
2019-11-15T23:38:55 < PaulFertser> karlp: yes, I just enabled 4K sectors, sysupgraded, first time it booted complaining, after that the filesystem works just fine.
--- Day changed Sat Nov 16 2019
2019-11-16T00:31:38 < qyx> PaulFertser: where? is it that config option in the kernel?
2019-11-16T00:32:19 < qyx> I did not enanle anything yet
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2019-11-16T01:53:12 < Laurenceb_> what causes lunix to create read only normal files in /dev  ? 
2019-11-16T01:53:38 < Laurenceb_> e.g. you plug in a usb tty serial device then unplug and are left with /dev/ttyUSB0 as a blank read only file
2019-11-16T01:53:46 < Laurenceb_> I have never understood this bug
2019-11-16T01:54:21 < Laurenceb_> I've tried to fix it with a script run from rules.d but I suspect that doesnt work 100% of the time
2019-11-16T01:54:25 < jadew> I don't think /dev is an actual file system
2019-11-16T01:55:06 < Laurenceb_> ikr
2019-11-16T01:55:06 < jadew> and I've never encountered that bug
2019-11-16T01:55:09 < Laurenceb_> hmm
2019-11-16T01:55:09 < Cracki> not on a disk of course
2019-11-16T01:55:42 < Laurenceb_> I can "fix" it by manually deleting using sudo
2019-11-16T01:55:53 < Laurenceb_> or putting a script in rules.d to delete it
2019-11-16T01:55:54 < Cracki> kernel drivers initiate that
2019-11-16T01:56:04 < Cracki> "vfs"
2019-11-16T01:56:17 < Cracki> it's all fake, can't delete that stuff unless it wants to
2019-11-16T01:56:32 < jadew> that's what I thought
2019-11-16T01:56:37 < Cracki> whatever you do to these files, it ends up triggering a call in some driver
2019-11-16T01:56:40 < jadew> Laurenceb_, that's why linux is great
2019-11-16T01:56:45 < jadew> it fails everyone in different ways
2019-11-16T01:56:50 < Cracki> :>
2019-11-16T01:56:51 < Laurenceb_> keek
2019-11-16T01:57:14 < Laurenceb_> I've seen it on multiple desktops with tarduino
2019-11-16T01:57:16 < Cracki> https://www.tldp.org/LDP/khg/HyperNews/get/fs/vfstour.html
2019-11-16T01:57:23 < Laurenceb_> and with ublox gps receivers
2019-11-16T01:57:40 < Laurenceb_> unplug and get a blank read only file in /dev
2019-11-16T01:57:49 < Cracki> bug report
2019-11-16T01:57:56 < Laurenceb_> heh
2019-11-16T01:58:17 < Laurenceb_> they were all usbtty<x> devices
2019-11-16T01:58:31 < Cracki> whatever device driver created this file must not have gotten the message to clean it up again
2019-11-16T01:58:39 < Laurenceb_> yeah
2019-11-16T01:58:47 < Cracki> or something caused that to fail and it couldn't handle that better
2019-11-16T01:58:54 < Laurenceb_> I've used lots of actual serial devices and never seen it
2019-11-16T01:59:26 < Laurenceb_> just ublox gps and tarduino, maybe a discovery board I forget
2019-11-16T01:59:37 < Laurenceb_> havent used usbtty on discovery for a while
2019-11-16T01:59:46  * karlp hasn't seen that ever that he remembers
2019-11-16T01:59:47 < Cracki> those should be using the generic usb device class and whatnot
2019-11-16T02:00:04 < Cracki> so if that happens, there you should look
2019-11-16T02:01:02 < jadew> Laurenceb_, are you using the device when disconnecting it?
2019-11-16T02:01:06 < Laurenceb_> I think I'll start off by adding some diagnostics to my rules.d script to see if it is failing
2019-11-16T02:01:17 < Laurenceb_> jadew: yes,but not writing to it
2019-11-16T02:01:22 < jadew> doesn't matter
2019-11-16T02:01:34 < jadew> if it's open, it might refuse to remove it properly
2019-11-16T02:01:48 < jadew> I guess it fails to do it because it doesn't know how
2019-11-16T02:01:50 < Laurenceb_> I havent seen the script failing to clean up on my machine, but users have reported gps failure
2019-11-16T02:02:18 < Laurenceb_> and I suspect this is the issue from their description, with the haxor script failing to fix it for some reason
2019-11-16T02:02:24 < jadew> if you plug it back in and then remove with, while not in use, it disappears, right?
2019-11-16T02:02:39 < jadew> *then remove it
2019-11-16T02:03:05 < Laurenceb_> if you plug back in you get a new port like ttyUSB2
2019-11-16T02:03:20 < jadew> I see
2019-11-16T02:03:27 < jadew> on windows you at least get the same com port
2019-11-16T02:03:38 < jadew> I think I hit this bug before
2019-11-16T02:03:39 < Laurenceb_> I need a consistent name like /dev/ttyUBLOXGPS
2019-11-16T02:03:42 < jadew> both on windows and linux
2019-11-16T02:03:47 < BrainDamage> just create a udev rule
2019-11-16T02:03:57 < BrainDamage> like you've been told countless times over the years
2019-11-16T02:04:13 < Laurenceb_> so I added a rules.d file to create /dev/ublox and link that to the device
2019-11-16T02:04:31 < Laurenceb_> maybe that isnt whats breaking, I cant replicate the bug :-/
2019-11-16T02:04:46 < Laurenceb_> whatever it is, rebooting makes the gps work again
2019-11-16T02:04:49 < BrainDamage> check the symlink
2019-11-16T02:04:59 < BrainDamage> ls -la  /dev/ublox
2019-11-16T02:05:04 < BrainDamage> see what it points to
2019-11-16T02:05:13 < Laurenceb_> yeah I suspect somehow the simplink is getting broken
2019-11-16T02:05:24 < Laurenceb_> I dont have any of the machines to hand
2019-11-16T02:05:33 < Laurenceb_> and it doesnt break on mine
2019-11-16T02:05:46 < Laurenceb_> I was trying to understand what caused the initial problem...
2019-11-16T02:10:47 < Laurenceb_> hmm this might be it
2019-11-16T02:10:48 < Laurenceb_> https://smdaudhilbe.wordpress.com/2013/05/01/how-to-solve-serial-port-problem-removing-stale-lock-varlocklck-ttyusb0/
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2019-11-16T02:44:14 < kakipr0> hello nightshift
2019-11-16T02:44:28 < zyp> sup?
2019-11-16T02:45:03 < kakipr0> played some childrends game for few hours
2019-11-16T02:45:11 < kakipr0> called CS:GO
2019-11-16T02:45:17 < kakipr0> at least they mock me for it
2019-11-16T02:45:49 < kakipr0> zyp: should I series resistor all brances of SPI?
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2019-11-16T02:50:36 < kakipr0> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SFrUINyYcEA new eevblog
2019-11-16T02:50:41 < kakipr0> howe is house zyp?
2019-11-16T02:52:24 < zyp> been dicking with zigbee shit lately
2019-11-16T02:53:28 < zyp> oh, and I also just ordered a chinese tablet with a PoE port, planning to put a couple of those on the walls if they are usable
2019-11-16T03:03:00 < kakipr0> can you replace the firmware?
2019-11-16T03:04:02 < zyp> probably, dunno with what
2019-11-16T03:04:16 < Cracki> doom
2019-11-16T03:04:19 < zyp> apparently it's gonna come with android 8.1 with root available
2019-11-16T03:04:31 < zyp> so I have some hope for it
2019-11-16T03:05:45 < kakipr0> i'd keep it isolated until surelly rooted
2019-11-16T03:06:05 < zyp> oh, haha
2019-11-16T03:06:32 < zyp> nah, I'm more worried about usability than security
2019-11-16T03:07:11 < kakipr0> url?
2019-11-16T03:07:26 < kakipr0> poe enabled interface would be great for many things
2019-11-16T03:08:37 < zyp> https://portworld.en.alibaba.com/productgrouplist-806483352/10_1_Inch_POE.html <- one of these things
2019-11-16T03:08:38 < kakipr0> dave rants about stm32
2019-11-16T03:09:36 < zyp> there's a couple hundred listings for the same few products, so I just messaged the seller and asked them for a list of the actual variants they have and picked out the most decent looking one from them
2019-11-16T03:10:51 < zyp> https://portworld.en.alibaba.com/product/60601628395-806483352/Best_price_10_inch_wall_mount_RK3288_Quad_core_2GB_RAM_16GB_ROM_POE_tablet.html <- probably this thing
2019-11-16T03:11:57 < zyp> ordered one to test with, if it's decent I'll probably buy one or two more
2019-11-16T03:25:30 < kakipr0> TIM1_ETR
2019-11-16T03:25:35 < kakipr0> what does ETR mean?
2019-11-16T03:28:29 < zyp> external trigger
2019-11-16T03:28:32 < zyp> or something
2019-11-16T03:29:22 < kakipr0> those are not the only inputs rigth?
2019-11-16T03:29:26 < kakipr0> to timer
2019-11-16T03:32:17 < kakipr0> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iH0kfH04U68 musics
2019-11-16T03:32:21 < kakipr0> grimes time
2019-11-16T03:34:10 < jadew> https://www.theatlantic.com/international/archive/2014/06/how-a-science-experiment-led-to-sexual-encounters-for-a-woman-and-a-dolphin/372606/
2019-11-16T03:38:14 < Cracki> why is it always women that harass wildlife
2019-11-16T03:38:31 < jadew> men are smart enough to keep it to themselves
2019-11-16T03:38:34 < Cracki> are horses not good enough anymore
2019-11-16T03:39:25 < specing> men shoot wildlife
2019-11-16T03:39:27 < Cracki> nasa funded. were they testing suitable pets for deep space missions?
2019-11-16T03:39:30 < specing> and eat it
2019-11-16T03:39:35 < jadew> https://twitter.com/telegraph/status/1190569313012457472?lang=en
2019-11-16T03:39:48 < Cracki> yeah fuck that
2019-11-16T03:39:58 < Cracki> the propaganda is obvious
2019-11-16T03:40:00 < kakipr0> st has decided to put all the functions in same pins
2019-11-16T03:40:20 < kakipr0> why would you want to use wide array of analog inputs while using ethernet
2019-11-16T03:40:28 < kakipr0> or timers
2019-11-16T03:40:29 < kakipr0> or comms
2019-11-16T03:40:41 < Cracki> the thinking is that you would not
2019-11-16T03:40:41 < kakipr0> oh
2019-11-16T03:40:49 < kakipr0> now I understand
2019-11-16T03:40:54 < kakipr0> this is XL package
2019-11-16T03:41:05 < kakipr0> they just strech it with gpio
2019-11-16T03:41:05 < Cracki> those functions may rarely be needed from the same chip
2019-11-16T03:41:33 < Cracki> or maybe they threw dice to assign this
2019-11-16T03:46:27 < kakipr0> tough luck
2019-11-16T03:56:42 < kakipr0> luckily my design is flexible
2019-11-16T03:56:51 < kakipr0> I got away with only 5adc pins
2019-11-16T03:59:04 < Cracki> jadew, apropos mating https://twitter.com/InnocentNudes/status/1195487688981458944 (no nudes)
2019-11-16T04:02:06 < jadew> lol
2019-11-16T04:07:10 < bitmask> what should I use for solder mask expansion on parts with small pin pitch so that the solder mask sliver isn't too small?
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2019-11-16T04:10:03 < Cracki> I'd pray that the datasheet of your chip has artwork for that
2019-11-16T04:10:28 < Cracki> other than that, I'd worry about the holes in the stencil more than the soldermask
2019-11-16T04:12:43 < Cracki> shit I should try these new AI text generators for some publications...
2019-11-16T04:16:33 < kakipr0> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MesYzuAXH9o good music
2019-11-16T04:18:06 < kakipr0> https://drive.google.com/file/d/1wvVnp19zslRn9fY_Od4oUVQXjT6Mq_pq/view?usp=sharing main schematic at the moment
2019-11-16T04:29:59 < kakipr0> you can see a lot of shit is going on
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2019-11-16T04:30:18 < kakipr0> added one box more
2019-11-16T04:30:21 < kakipr0> canbus
2019-11-16T04:37:41 < Laurenceb_> https://www.subscribestar.com/antifembot
2019-11-16T04:37:55 < Laurenceb_> I had the "pleasure" of meeting her last night
2019-11-16T04:39:39 < kakipr0> pleasure was all hers?
2019-11-16T04:40:01 < Laurenceb_> she needs to be sectioned
2019-11-16T04:40:20 < Laurenceb_> out of her, Sargon, and Count Dankula, she was the least sane
2019-11-16T04:40:31 < Laurenceb_> thats how bad it was
2019-11-16T04:40:37 < kakipr0> is it good idea to drive BSR inputs via schottkys?
2019-11-16T04:40:51 < kakipr0> I plan to do this
2019-11-16T04:41:07 < Laurenceb_> she was very drunk and started prodding me and asking if I thought women should be able to vote
2019-11-16T04:41:12 < Laurenceb_> awkward.jpg
2019-11-16T04:41:22 < Laurenceb_> I think the correct answer was no
2019-11-16T04:41:29 < kakipr0> active high signals go to first BSR(s) and active low signals go to BSR(s) after that
2019-11-16T04:41:48 < Laurenceb_> also she is about 3 feet tall
2019-11-16T04:41:51 < kakipr0> so I can low-side powerswitch trailing active low signals BSR
2019-11-16T04:42:06 < kakipr0> null>
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2019-11-16T04:46:19 < kakinull> how about driving those serial lines via capacitors
2019-11-16T04:46:37 < kakinull> 8)
2019-11-16T04:48:27 < kakinull> maybe high value resistors paraller to those capacitors
2019-11-16T04:48:50 < Laurenceb_> too high to answer sorry
2019-11-16T04:49:16 < kakinull> you do high?
2019-11-16T04:49:18 < Laurenceb_> I was surprised that the irl 4chan meetup (basically what it was) was about 50% female
2019-11-16T04:49:28 < kakinull> or are you high on green texts
2019-11-16T04:49:30 < Laurenceb_> positive: lots of grrrls
2019-11-16T04:49:43 < Laurenceb_> negative: they make me look normal
2019-11-16T04:49:47 < kakinull> 50% females wtf=
2019-11-16T04:49:50 < Laurenceb_> ikr
2019-11-16T04:49:55 < kakinull> are you sure
2019-11-16T04:50:00 < Laurenceb_> yes
2019-11-16T04:50:10 < kakinull> there are also people who like to dress like a girl
2019-11-16T04:50:14 < Laurenceb_> it was like autistic femanon meetup club
2019-11-16T04:50:23 < Laurenceb_> lol I dont think they would be welcome
2019-11-16T04:50:33 < Laurenceb_> the grrls were reeing about trannies
2019-11-16T04:50:45 < Laurenceb_> probably because they would have competition
2019-11-16T04:50:58 < kakinull> okay they were probs girls then
2019-11-16T04:51:04 < kakinull> did you wife them yet?
2019-11-16T04:52:43 < kakinull> do you have photos from the meet?
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2019-11-16T05:59:12 < Laurenceb_> no photos
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2019-11-16T06:52:19 < brdb> anyone here every get the 'stlink_fwrite_flash() == -1' issue using the stlink tool from texane?
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2019-11-16T07:12:09 < brdb> nevermin was an issue in my make file resulting in a bad bin :^)
2019-11-16T07:24:22 < bitmask> what do you guys use for solder mask expansion? I'm thinking the .1 altium defaults too is twice the necessary amount
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2019-11-16T08:15:17 < dongs> sup pro dongs
2019-11-16T08:15:27 < dongs> bitmask it completely depends on application
2019-11-16T08:16:27 < bitmask> how so, I decided to lower it to 0.75 for a 0.8mm tqfp so that there was 1mm of soldermask available which seems to be the minimum
2019-11-16T08:17:52 < bitmask> same for another tsot23-8, but lef it at 0.102 for everything else, including a SQFN20 which wont have soldermask between the pins since its too small
2019-11-16T08:18:07 < bitmask> 0.075
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2019-11-16T16:09:08 < kakipr0> so
2019-11-16T16:09:42 < kakipr0> silence reigns
2019-11-16T16:17:10 < englishman> hi kako
2019-11-16T16:17:23 < englishman> how's sauna
2019-11-16T16:17:30 < englishman> -11 today good day for sauna
2019-11-16T16:17:56 < kakipr0> oh -11 here?
2019-11-16T16:18:25 < kakipr0> -1
2019-11-16T16:19:29 < englishman> summer 
2019-11-16T16:19:44 < englishman> gotta fix the snowblower
2019-11-16T16:22:23 < kakipr0> tractor powered?
2019-11-16T16:22:49 < englishman> tractor one isn't even attached yet, tractor is still in use
2019-11-16T16:23:06 < englishman> bunch of snowy corn out there
2019-11-16T16:23:21 < kakipr0> still on the field?
2019-11-16T16:23:25 < englishman> ya
2019-11-16T16:23:27 < kakipr0> winter harvest?
2019-11-16T16:23:35 < englishman> it's getting tricky
2019-11-16T16:23:50 < englishman> it dries in the field so it's the last to be harvested
2019-11-16T16:24:03 < kakipr0> apparently it's possible to winter harvest
2019-11-16T16:24:17 < kakipr0> bbl>
2019-11-16T16:27:40 < Laurenceb_> Tesla Parimutuel?
--- Log closed Sat Nov 16 16:53:08 2019
--- Log opened Sat Nov 16 18:48:17 2019
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--- Log closed Sat Nov 16 18:49:15 2019
--- Log opened Sat Nov 16 18:49:38 2019
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2019-11-16T18:50:33 < kakipr0> lurence totally horny now
2019-11-16T18:50:34 -!- Irssi: Join to ##stm32 was synced in 62 secs
2019-11-16T18:51:20 < specing> musk has a gf?
2019-11-16T18:51:24 < specing> he has time for a gf?
2019-11-16T18:51:32 < specing> whats her market cap?
2019-11-16T18:51:40 < bitmask> I thought he was dating a model
2019-11-16T18:53:15 < Laurenceb_> sounds about right
2019-11-16T18:53:22 < Laurenceb_> just buys a gf
2019-11-16T18:53:37 < kakipr0> it's how billionares roll
2019-11-16T18:55:13 < jpa-> dude has the biggest fallos on the planet and you think he has to buy a gf?
2019-11-16T18:58:23 < kakipr0> nope. just lurence
2019-11-16T19:00:09 -!- qyx [~qyx@gw2.krtko.org] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer]
2019-11-16T19:00:48 < bitmask> who sent me this!?!??!
2019-11-16T19:01:03 < bitmask> I think his nick started with an R?
2019-11-16T19:01:26 < kakipr0> sent you what?
2019-11-16T19:01:37 < bitmask> its a control board to turn a toaster oven in to a pcb oven
2019-11-16T19:01:57 < kakipr0> and.. it burned your house down?
2019-11-16T19:02:33 < bitmask> I havent used it, I forget the github page for the software
2019-11-16T19:02:55 < bitmask> for some reason I didnt bookmark it
2019-11-16T19:04:26 -!- qyx [~qyx@gw2.krtko.org] has joined ##stm32
2019-11-16T19:06:01 < con3> "hats her market cap?" XD
2019-11-16T19:16:00 < Laurenceb_> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3wOyqiThZ40
2019-11-16T19:21:59 -!- onio [~onio@2a00:23c5:7a01:8600:6c98:77f3:a705:97fb] has joined ##stm32
2019-11-16T19:22:17 < karlp> tesla bought maxwell?
2019-11-16T19:22:19 < karlp> heh
2019-11-16T19:24:15 < Laurenceb_> inb4 Edison
2019-11-16T19:29:13 < Laurenceb_> they are surprisingly cheap https://www.mouser.co.uk/ProductDetail/Maxwell-Technologies/BCAP3400-P300-K04?qs=sGAEpiMZZMsCu9HefNWqplWseRo8tpnkl110A%2FUEDHW%252BHeD%252BPh3XNg%3D%3D
2019-11-16T19:29:14 < Laurenceb_> could easily add enough supercaps to handle acceleration/regen braking to a car
2019-11-16T19:31:25 < kakipr0> economics is all that matters
2019-11-16T19:31:38 < kakipr0> if they get savings in batteries it makes sense
2019-11-16T19:32:05 < specing> they making it more expensive for other players on the market:)
2019-11-16T19:32:12 < kakipr0> that is more likelly
2019-11-16T19:33:02 < kakipr0> they buy the required delivery chains
2019-11-16T19:33:48 < bitmask> I found it! it was salcedo
2019-11-16T19:36:49 < Laurenceb_> supercap tesla car: goes 0-60 in 0.5s then the cap is flat
2019-11-16T19:37:24 < specing> the cap wouldn't be the only flat object in that case...
2019-11-16T19:39:55 < kakipr0> any roadster news?
2019-11-16T19:44:30 < kakipr0> I'm half a million euros short of having one
2019-11-16T19:44:47 < kakipr0> the bestest ev
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2019-11-16T19:50:19 < bitmask> is thermocouple to RS-232 common? I'm trying to figure out this board
2019-11-16T19:51:03 < kakipr0> ?
2019-11-16T19:52:20 < bitmask> i dunno, this board has a TC connector +/- but it goes to a RS-232 IC 
2019-11-16T19:52:27 < bitmask> figured that was thermocouple
2019-11-16T19:52:53 < bitmask> but it also has a cap across its pins so it looks like its supposed to be an analog signal
2019-11-16T19:53:10 < jpa-> which RS-232 ic?
2019-11-16T19:53:25 < bitmask> MAX3185
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2019-11-16T19:53:58 < bitmask> going to pins 3 and 4
2019-11-16T19:54:05 < bitmask> which also doesnt make sense
2019-11-16T19:54:12 < bitmask> as they are separate receiver inputs
2019-11-16T19:54:46 < kakipr0> wtf
2019-11-16T19:54:52 < bitmask> oh its 2 and 4, hold on
2019-11-16T19:55:13 < bitmask> oh that doesnt seem to change anything
2019-11-16T19:55:18 < jpa-> bitmask: are you sure it is not MAX31855?
2019-11-16T19:56:19 < bitmask> theres not 2 fives, maybe its an S?
2019-11-16T19:56:50 < jpa-> how many pins?
2019-11-16T19:56:55 < bitmask> wtf
2019-11-16T19:56:57 < bitmask> it doesnt fit either
2019-11-16T19:56:59 < bitmask> 14
2019-11-16T19:58:01 < kakipr0> https://datasheets.maximintegrated.com/en/ds/MAX31856.pdf
2019-11-16T19:58:03 < jpa-> MAX31856 then
2019-11-16T19:58:20 < kakipr0> they used the fancy one
2019-11-16T19:58:32 < jpa-> now with linearization
2019-11-16T19:58:48 < bitmask> how do they just leave a digit off the package?
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2019-11-16T19:59:04 < jpa-> if it is silkscreened, the silkscreen may have been dirty
2019-11-16T19:59:13 < kakipr0> bitmask: show us
2019-11-16T19:59:14 < bitmask> the 5 is on the edge, there is a 6 on the next line
2019-11-16T19:59:20 < bitmask> do they sometimes cut it up like that?
2019-11-16T19:59:21 < jpa-> ah, that's normal
2019-11-16T19:59:27 < bitmask> oh never seen that
2019-11-16T19:59:34 < jpa-> what else would you do if it doesn't fit on one line
2019-11-16T19:59:42 < bitmask> print smaller? :P
2019-11-16T19:59:49 < buZz> does anyone know how/if i can use footprints off of easyeda.com in kicad?
2019-11-16T20:00:04 < buZz> i want/need https://easyeda.com/component/2f49eb2517ce4e20a285466cf83ae20b
2019-11-16T20:00:06 < jpa-> buZz: sure? works fine
2019-11-16T20:00:16 < buZz> jpa-: how should i export the footprint then?
2019-11-16T20:00:25 < buZz> not as json, it seems
2019-11-16T20:00:30 < bitmask> interesting, maybe this board will be nice after all
2019-11-16T20:00:40 < jpa-> buZz: hm, that component looks empty in my browser
2019-11-16T20:00:42 < bitmask> just gotta write the code myself since he doesnt have it uploaded
2019-11-16T20:00:48 < jpa-> normally there is a download link if it has a footprint
2019-11-16T20:00:49 < buZz> yeah but does have contents in the editor
2019-11-16T20:01:01 < bitmask> any thermocouple recommendations?
2019-11-16T20:01:05 < jpa-> ah no
2019-11-16T20:01:12 < jpa-> now i confused snapeda vs. easyeda :D
2019-11-16T20:01:16 < buZz> ah :)
2019-11-16T20:01:27 < buZz> do you think snapeda has a PJ-321 footprint? :P
2019-11-16T20:01:44  * buZz looks
2019-11-16T20:01:45 < bitmask> damn, got a delivery, gotta work now
2019-11-16T20:01:59 < buZz> hmm, not that i see
2019-11-16T20:02:15 < jpa-> it has PJ-312 ;)
2019-11-16T20:02:38 < buZz> lol
2019-11-16T20:02:47 < buZz> not sure if typo ;)
2019-11-16T20:02:59 < buZz> ah, 312 is SMD
2019-11-16T20:03:02 < buZz> 321 is THT
2019-11-16T20:03:14 < buZz> and 4 pins instead of 6
2019-11-16T20:03:22 < jpa-> but yeah, probably easier to redraw
2019-11-16T20:03:28 < buZz> hmhm
2019-11-16T20:04:00 < jpa-> especially as non-round holes often import/export incorrectly between tools
2019-11-16T20:10:52 < buZz> hmhm
2019-11-16T20:11:10 < buZz> welp, found a random ass kicad project on github that supposedly holds the footprint inside
2019-11-16T20:12:00 < jpa-> yeah, i found the same, seems they forgot to commit the pcb library file
2019-11-16T20:12:11 < jpa-> though you can export it from .kicad_pcb if you are so lazy
2019-11-16T20:16:37 < buZz> i'm mostly kicadnoob :)
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--- Log closed Sat Nov 16 20:38:05 2019
--- Log opened Sat Nov 16 20:53:14 2019
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2019-11-16T20:54:17 < kakipr0> my board has now low power can-tranceiver too
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2019-11-16T21:11:40 < kakipr0> 5.00 screw terminals or 5.08?
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2019-11-16T21:13:06 < karlp> 3.5
2019-11-16T21:13:13 < karlp> fuck jumbotron
2019-11-16T21:13:18 < kakipr0> indeed
2019-11-16T21:13:41 < kakipr0> thanks of your wise words karlp
2019-11-16T21:15:18 < kakipr0> 5.08 is overkill
2019-11-16T21:20:13 < kakipr0> how does Connector_Phoenix_MC:PhoenixContact_MCV_1,5_2-GF-3.5_1x02_P3.50mm_Vertical_ThreadedFlange_MountHole sound?
2019-11-16T21:20:24 < kakipr0> I have actually used these
2019-11-16T21:20:33 < kakipr0> but only horizontally
2019-11-16T21:26:19 < kakipr0> https://drive.google.com/file/d/1kGZ8svsbrQ93cabMhUVGBtbL9Q0Xz1MM/view?usp=sharing
2019-11-16T21:26:48 < kakipr0> what do you think of my wakeup circuit there?
2019-11-16T21:26:58 < kakipr0> nasty isn't it?
2019-11-16T21:32:17 < Laurenceb_> https://tech.slashdot.org/story/19/11/16/042255/how-google-interferes-with-its-search-algorithms-and-changes-your-results
2019-11-16T21:34:33 < specing> how can google interfere with its own search results?
2019-11-16T21:34:43 < specing> they can just ... give you modified results in the first place
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2019-11-16T21:38:12 < Laurenceb_> heh
2019-11-16T21:38:12 < Laurenceb_> yeah google is becoming more and more cancerous
2019-11-16T21:38:12 < Laurenceb_> even technical results are starting to become cancerous
2019-11-16T21:39:32 < specing> google has always been a cancer
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2019-11-16T21:41:43 < kakipr0> you hurt machine feelings
2019-11-16T21:55:26 < Laurenceb_> Something wicked this way comes! Lots of corrupt dems going to prison. #QANON 
2019-11-16T22:00:14 < Cracki> there is active research on lobotomizing AI because it comes to the right conclusions
2019-11-16T22:00:26 < Cracki> and we can't have that
2019-11-16T22:01:53 < Cracki> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GAiHtrWHxK0
2019-11-16T22:04:00 < kakipr0> is there something like BSR but without outputs?
2019-11-16T22:04:47 < kakipr0> I might as well extend persistent output buffer with such and store some system states in there
2019-11-16T22:05:06 < kakipr0> or have an option to do so at least
2019-11-16T22:06:19 < bitmask> what do you think BST would mean for the reflow oven? Theres top and bot outputs, then BST and AUX,  I'm guessing aux is for whatever you want, not sure what BST would be though
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2019-11-16T22:14:01 < machinehum> hello weiners
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2019-11-16T22:46:04 < Steffanx> Hum hum.
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2019-11-16T23:43:52 < qyx> that buildroot
2019-11-16T23:46:25 < Cracki> "oi cunt get off my plate" https://www.theguardian.com/australia-news/2019/nov/15/man-who-tore-head-off-kookaburra-in-perth-pub-fined-2500
2019-11-16T23:47:12 < Cracki> and all I wanted to know is whether the kookaburra call in that plumber's youtube videos is editing or whether these critters are just watching him work and laugh their asses off
2019-11-16T23:49:08 < Cracki> euphemism for something: "put his hands under the table and just ripped his head off."
2019-11-16T23:56:53 < Cracki> 'Quite clearly we need a law that would stop that appalling behaviour happening,' she said.
2019-11-16T23:57:07 < Cracki> yeah like that's a common occurrence, pests stealing food of customers' plates
--- Day changed Sun Nov 17 2019
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2019-11-17T00:00:40 < Cracki> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rj8NJfH0h84
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2019-11-17T00:42:19 < kakipr0> should I add filters to i2c lines just in case?
2019-11-17T00:44:12 < Cracki> uh, why?
2019-11-17T00:44:41 < Cracki> you have pullup resistors on them already. I wouldn't worry about noise
2019-11-17T00:48:08 < kakipr0> that is "integrated filter"?
2019-11-17T00:48:20 < kakipr0> and I doubt that there is internal pullups
2019-11-17T00:56:01 < kakipr0> anyway that application note about external RC filter for serial comms pins was xilinx app note about serial bus noise-immunity in fpga use
2019-11-17T00:56:30 < Cracki> no/yes, i2c devices often assume external pullups on the bus
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2019-11-17T00:59:11 < kakipr0> okay then
2019-11-17T00:59:22 < kakipr0> I use i2c multiplexer
2019-11-17T00:59:48 < kakipr0> so both common side and switched side need to have their own pullups rite?
2019-11-17T01:04:36 < kakipr0> it's how datasheet shows it
2019-11-17T01:13:41 < dongs> yeah, generally
2019-11-17T01:13:45 < dongs> same goes for i2c level converter
2019-11-17T01:13:46 < kakipr0> which direction would you pull idle spi lines?
2019-11-17T01:13:48 < dongs> pullups onm both ends
2019-11-17T01:13:50 < dongs> what
2019-11-17T01:13:55 < kakipr0> mcu is in shutdown
2019-11-17T01:14:14 < dongs> you don't, pull CS to disabled by default, the other lines dont matter in that case
2019-11-17T01:14:35 < kakipr0> I would hate to leave them floating
2019-11-17T01:14:37 < kakipr0> also
2019-11-17T01:14:51 < kakipr0> one SPI is dedicated to BSRs
2019-11-17T01:15:11 < kakipr0> I don't want them to start oscillating or something
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2019-11-17T02:02:46 < Cracki> spi master? have it pull them up if you care. just don't have slaves to anything to the lines.
2019-11-17T02:03:16 < Cracki> spi peripheral should idle them in a sensible state anyway, unless you shut it off
2019-11-17T02:04:42 < kakipr0> "mcu is in shutdown"
2019-11-17T02:08:22 < Cracki> ah
2019-11-17T02:08:47 < Cracki> do slave chips have to be awake then?
2019-11-17T02:10:20 < Cracki> slaves don't listen to clock/data when SS isn't asserted. I wouldn't worry about those floating.
2019-11-17T02:11:00 < kakipr0> BSRs are powered
2019-11-17T02:12:05 < kakipr0> what mode slaves usually use?
2019-11-17T02:13:00 < Cracki> any of four combinations of polarity and phase
2019-11-17T02:13:43 < Cracki> all you can rely on is that they ignore the bus when no slave select
2019-11-17T02:14:18 < kakipr0> yes
2019-11-17T02:25:15 < kakipr0> with BSRs I can pick which one I like
2019-11-17T02:25:23 < kakipr0> but then I need to stick with it
2019-11-17T02:25:46 < kakipr0> I choose ground because its more available
2019-11-17T02:34:50 < kakipr0> null>
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2019-11-17T03:16:01 < Laurenceb_> >Virginia Roberts
2019-11-17T03:16:11 < Laurenceb_> Nomnative determinism strikes
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2019-11-17T03:25:25 < englishman> any innovators tonight
2019-11-17T03:25:44 < englishman> I got this big fantastic fpga project
2019-11-17T03:26:11 < englishman> abt 2 years to market and a healthy budget
2019-11-17T03:26:34 < englishman> time to sign up for expensive FPGA training in Germany or Japan or some shit
2019-11-17T03:27:40 < specing> Lol
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2019-11-17T03:39:25 < emeb_mac> 2 year timeline? Luxury!
2019-11-17T03:40:29 < emeb_mac> probably means you'll have 20 months of wittering and dithering from the marketing dept, followed by 4mo of scrambling to deliver the last thing they could agree on.
2019-11-17T03:42:04 < Laurenceb_> https://www.superdielectrics.com/
2019-11-17T03:42:09 < Laurenceb_> kek wtf @ this website
2019-11-17T03:42:19 < Laurenceb_> it looks like the random startup generator
2019-11-17T03:44:17 < englishman> emeb_mac it's about 2-3 months to specify the product, 1 year dev and the rest for transfer to production
2019-11-17T03:44:45 < emeb_mac> englishman: sounds decent
2019-11-17T03:45:09 < emeb_mac> englishman: full time the whole way?
2019-11-17T03:45:27 < englishman> it'll be about 1/2 to 2/3 of my full-time job
2019-11-17T03:46:12 < emeb_mac> nice
2019-11-17T03:46:19 < englishman> but of course it won't be just me, there are plenty of other guys there I will need like windows software guys, optical guys and so on
2019-11-17T03:47:27 < emeb_mac> englishman: of course - there's always interfacing
2019-11-17T03:47:34 < Laurenceb_> eestor 2.zero ?
2019-11-17T03:49:05 < englishman> pretty nice that this will be the first project I will do from start to finish
2019-11-17T03:49:13 < englishman> instead of just finishing projects
2019-11-17T03:49:29 < Laurenceb_> keeekkk http://www.freepatentsonline.com/y2019/0074139.html
2019-11-17T03:49:49 < Laurenceb_> >Uka, Youichirou (Osaka, JP) 
2019-11-17T03:50:01 < Laurenceb_> poser webshit guys got jap'd
2019-11-17T03:50:44 < Laurenceb_> thats why their bs webshit hasnt been updated recently
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2019-11-17T04:35:27 < bitmask> alright, no design errors now
2019-11-17T04:35:40 < bitmask> im not happy with this one land pattern though
2019-11-17T04:35:54 < bitmask> I want silkscreen between the pads but I dont know if its too small
2019-11-17T04:47:30 < kakinull> any critical errors found?
2019-11-17T04:48:39 < bitmask> none, I got rid of all the minor stuff too, adjusted the silkscreens and stuff
2019-11-17T04:49:21 < bitmask> just two more things I gotta decide
2019-11-17T04:49:26 < bitmask> unless something else comes up
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2019-11-17T04:55:01 < bitmask> https://images0.cnblogs.com/blog/268182/201308/31010405-67737c74a2914ed9914aeae3cdbacb37.jpg
2019-11-17T04:55:14 < bitmask> would you want solder mask between the tab and other pins
2019-11-17T04:58:52 < kakinull> yes
2019-11-17T04:59:33 < kakinull> oh wait
2019-11-17T04:59:44 < kakinull> what is this are there pins next to tab?
2019-11-17T05:02:06 < bitmask> yes
2019-11-17T05:02:17 < bitmask> those are the problem ones
2019-11-17T05:02:29 < bitmask> there isnt enough space between them and the tab for solder mask
2019-11-17T05:02:42 < bitmask> so do I adjust the pad sizes/ mask expansion to get it to fit?
2019-11-17T05:02:47 < bitmask> or leave without mask
2019-11-17T05:03:07 < bitmask> the bottom 2 are fine
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2019-11-17T05:07:45 < kakinull> what component it is?
2019-11-17T05:37:57 < jadew> is there any paint you can use on 3d prints to make them more rubbery, so they don't slide on the table
2019-11-17T05:44:12 < dongs> Better results can be achieved
2019-11-17T05:44:12 < dongs> through the use of a buried capacitor formed by a VDD and VSS plane separated by 2-mil to 4-mil dielectric in a
2019-11-17T05:44:15 < dongs> printed-circuit board.
2019-11-17T05:44:16 < dongs> yeah lol fuck off, TI
2019-11-17T05:44:38 < dongs> ill just slap 0402 100nF shit there and done
2019-11-17T05:53:01 < englishman> true but the performance of pcb planes shouldn't be underestimated
2019-11-17T05:53:47 < englishman> as a fellow Jew, you should be very excited about an opportunity to save placing a $0.000003 component
2019-11-17T05:55:42 < dongs> ya but sounds like the stackup needed for that is gonna cost way more than $0.000003
2019-11-17T05:56:56 < englishman> is jpeg2000 still the best lossless compressed video format?
2019-11-17T05:57:08 < dongs> if you use lossless mode sure
2019-11-17T05:57:13 < dongs> dcinema still uses it
2019-11-17T05:57:14 < englishman> ofc
2019-11-17T05:59:20 < englishman> JPEG 2000 technology was later selected as the video coding standard for digital cinema in 2004.
2019-11-17T05:59:22 < englishman> cool
2019-11-17T05:59:53 < dongs> its lossy in dcinema tho
2019-11-17T06:00:00 < dongs> to maintain those 200-ish mbit bitrates
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2019-11-17T06:00:56 < englishman> cheap xilinx jpeg2k package
2019-11-17T06:01:10 < englishman> and openjpeg on the PC side
2019-11-17T06:02:10 < dongs> openjpeg is pretty aids bt yeah
2019-11-17T06:02:13 < dongs> what are you doing with that?
2019-11-17T06:06:10 < englishman> 25+ megadixel streaming
2019-11-17T06:06:57 < englishman> this one mfg has a cool 25mpix 170fps sensor for like $300
2019-11-17T06:07:06 < englishman> 80 lane lvds
2019-11-17T06:11:17 < dongs> nice
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2019-11-17T06:32:10 < bitmask> alright fuggit im ordering the board
2019-11-17T06:39:48 < jadew> https://i.postimg.cc/Hn02YbSk/Pooh-SMD-reflow-frypan.jpg
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2019-11-17T06:42:04 < bitmask> I gotta order a toaster oven too
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2019-11-17T06:54:31 < jadew> man... 5% infill seems perfectly adequate for a lot of stuff
2019-11-17T06:54:54 < jadew> the default 20% seems more like an edge case
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2019-11-17T07:39:25 < jadew> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1cPeZLCVWTw
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2019-11-17T07:44:03 < jadew> I've been awake for 4 hours, managed to do absolutely nothing
2019-11-17T07:44:18 < jadew> maybe I should keep doing that for the rest of the day
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2019-11-17T08:23:09 < jadew> looks like you can buy recycled PLA now
2019-11-17T08:23:19 < jadew> seems to be at half the price of regular one
2019-11-17T08:40:38 < jadew> I think I like natural PLA the best
2019-11-17T08:41:10 < jadew> the infill makes interesting patterns that are visible, because it's translucent
2019-11-17T09:11:46 < jadew> does anyone know how much the 1kg devil design roll weights?
2019-11-17T09:11:56 < jadew> (without the filament)
2019-11-17T09:13:33 < jadew> found it
2019-11-17T09:13:46 < jadew> 257g
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2019-11-17T14:59:08 < kakinull> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BTETsm79D3A
2019-11-17T15:08:39 < kakinull> jadew: rubber spray
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2019-11-17T15:46:54 < dongs> for smbus i dont need anything special other than the usual i2c pullups right
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2019-11-17T15:57:06 < Steffanx> i recall there something being with the min/max sink current being lower of the smbus compared to i2c.
2019-11-17T15:57:46 < Steffanx> oh maxim say something about it, but also that many system seems to violate it https://www.maximintegrated.com/en/design/technical-documents/app-notes/4/476.html
2019-11-17T15:57:51 < Steffanx> " Pullup Resistors and Current Levels"
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2019-11-17T16:00:41 < dongs> oh
2019-11-17T16:00:50 < dongs> i wonder if this shit uses smbus cuz it has vddio of 2.5V
2019-11-17T16:02:10 < dongs> yeah
2019-11-17T16:02:40 < kakipr0> 2.5v a thing in smbus?
2019-11-17T16:07:07 < buZz> smbus is 2.5v level i2c?
2019-11-17T16:07:10 < buZz> TIL
2019-11-17T16:07:59 < dongs> idk, the shit steffy linked says 'high' in fixed voltage smbus is 2.1V
2019-11-17T16:08:04 < dongs> vs 3.0V in i2c
2019-11-17T16:08:11 < dongs> but it doesnt specify what "fixed voltage" is
2019-11-17T16:08:15 < buZz> :)
2019-11-17T16:08:19 < buZz> fixed, not broken
2019-11-17T16:10:51 < englishman> maxim probably wrote that appnote just to sell some niche chip they no longer make
2019-11-17T16:11:06 < dongs> no doubt
2019-11-17T16:11:44 < dongs> i think i found the problem with this SDI thing
2019-11-17T16:12:04 < dongs> they had positive/negative outputs together wtih a 10pF cap
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2019-11-17T16:26:19 < qyx> device descriptor read/64, error -110
2019-11-17T16:26:28 < qyx> means power exceeded?
2019-11-17T16:26:50 < qyx> according to google yes, but idk how is that possible, I have only a single resistor divider 100k/200k on the Vbus
2019-11-17T16:28:36 < qyx> Vbus is 5.11V, D+/D- are ~0V
2019-11-17T16:29:03 < PaulFertser> qyx: no, it means that the host is unable to read USB device descriptor from the target, for whatever reason.
2019-11-17T16:29:36 < PaulFertser> qyx: when power limit kicks in the messages differ (something like port NNN ... protection triggered) 
2019-11-17T16:29:37 < dongs> no that just means your shit didnt reply with a deescriptor in tiem
2019-11-17T16:29:44 < dongs> aka 'unknwon usb device' in windows
2019-11-17T16:30:27 < PaulFertser> "usb 2-1-port6: over-current condition" is what you'd get if it was hitting the current limit.
2019-11-17T16:30:52 < qyx> ok, so the atmel shit no worky
2019-11-17T16:31:28 < dongs> are you using vusb shit lol
2019-11-17T16:32:07 < qyx> no, sam-ba
2019-11-17T16:32:12 < qyx> on at91
2019-11-17T16:32:22 < PaulFertser> qyx: is it a full speed device? Then D+ would be pulled high all the time by the device.
2019-11-17T16:32:26 < jpa-> qyx: -110 is just ETIMEDOUT, so could be just that device didn't understand request or stalled for some reason
2019-11-17T16:32:47 < Steffanx> lol samba.
2019-11-17T16:32:52 < dongs> AT91 is what? arduino DUE shit?
2019-11-17T16:32:54 < dongs> SAM3X?
2019-11-17T16:33:02 < Steffanx> SAMA5 i guess.
2019-11-17T16:33:08 < qyx> sama5
2019-11-17T16:33:27 < dongs> nice, lemme khow how you get with lunix on that
2019-11-17T16:33:35 < dongs> ive been thinking using it for some stuff
2019-11-17T16:34:01 < qyx> buildroot, all on the internal SPI NOR
2019-11-17T16:34:21 < Steffanx> is it even a tiny bit up to date? As in the kernel.
2019-11-17T16:34:33 < qyx> on a devel board, everything works as expected
2019-11-17T16:34:36 < qyx> worked on my board too
2019-11-17T16:34:39 < qyx> until recently
2019-11-17T16:34:43 < qyx> I mean
2019-11-17T16:34:56 < qyx> I did ~something~ to the kernel config, flashed using ethernet as usual
2019-11-17T16:35:01 < qyx> didn't boot
2019-11-17T16:35:17 < qyx> so I recompiled, reflasheed using serial and now it doesnt work
2019-11-17T16:35:42 < qyx> = at91bootstrap3 works, loads the kernel, the kernel freezes before it prints anything
2019-11-17T16:36:02 < qyx> Steffanx: yes, 4.19 kernel iirc
2019-11-17T16:41:18 < qyx> oh me dumb, the USB cable has to be connected
2019-11-17T16:41:26 < qyx> otherwise USB is not enabled in the bootloader
2019-11-17T16:42:42 < qyx> dongs: so far I can say everything works as expected
2019-11-17T16:42:59 < qyx> there are some minor bugs made by me
2019-11-17T16:43:08 < qyx> I can confirm ethernet, i2c, can works
2019-11-17T16:43:24 < Steffanx> Doesnt everyone and its mother use uboot btw?
2019-11-17T16:43:49 < qyx> not much hassle with buildroot, there is a defconfig available
2019-11-17T16:44:23 < qyx> yes but at91bootstrap3 can now boot the kernel directly even with dtb
2019-11-17T16:44:29 < englishman> does it work on windows
2019-11-17T16:44:57 < qyx> so instead of having at91bootstrap3->uboot->linux you can have at91boostrap3->linux
2019-11-17T16:46:09 < Steffanx> samba works on windows, yes.
2019-11-17T16:48:24 < Steffanx> You started with one of those xplained kits qyx?
2019-11-17T16:48:33 < qyx> no, som1-ek
2019-11-17T16:48:57 < Steffanx> big money.
2019-11-17T16:57:43 < qyx> ok so the problem was another NOR flash connected to the same SPI
2019-11-17T16:57:57 < qyx> even with CS disconnected
2019-11-17T17:01:39 < dongs> ahahahahaahaaha fucking altidumb
2019-11-17T17:01:47 < dongs> they re-added popup properties dialog for parts
2019-11-17T17:01:51 < dongs> in schematic
2019-11-17T17:01:55 < dongs> instead of the fucking sidebar
2019-11-17T17:03:17 < BrainDamage> laurenceb-grade link: https://www.homecrux.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/10/Royal-Twintail-body-pillow_4.jpg
2019-11-17T17:03:33 < Laurenceb_> there is no I in team
2019-11-17T17:03:39 < Laurenceb_> but there is in nigger
2019-11-17T17:04:23 < Laurenceb_> BrainDamage: I'm confused, are you buying all of that?
2019-11-17T17:04:44 < BrainDamage> no, I manifacture it
2019-11-17T17:04:45 < Laurenceb_> inflatable grrrl in the middle?
2019-11-17T17:06:02 < kakipr0> dongs: I have said many times they just copy kicad
2019-11-17T17:10:21 < Thorn> FriendZone™ for ArmV8-M
2019-11-17T17:11:11 < englishman> must friendlier than trustzone
2019-11-17T17:11:21 < Steffanx> doesnt even look too bad BrainDamage. So not blaxtergrade
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2019-11-17T17:14:37 < PaulFertser> Steffanx: barebox is another relatively popular bootloader where it comes to iMX industrial SoCs.
2019-11-17T17:14:56 < PaulFertser> Steffanx: with a much cleaner code too.
2019-11-17T17:19:07 < kakipr0> interrupts from spi devices are not a thing rite?
2019-11-17T17:19:24 < kakipr0> I don't need to add a pin for that rite
2019-11-17T17:21:18 < kakipr0> do you know any spi device that gives interrupts?
2019-11-17T17:21:51 < dongs> what?
2019-11-17T17:21:59 < dongs> of course you could have interrupt out from a SPI device
2019-11-17T17:22:04 < dongs> to tell you to like read someshit from it.
2019-11-17T17:22:20 < kakipr0> but in practice
2019-11-17T17:22:28 < kakipr0> have you seen any use cases?
2019-11-17T17:22:31 < dongs> yes?
2019-11-17T17:22:35 < dongs> gyro/acc on SPI
2019-11-17T17:22:35 < kakipr0> okay
2019-11-17T17:22:38 < dongs> data ready interrupt
2019-11-17T17:22:38 < srk> kakipr0: sx1276
2019-11-17T17:22:48 < kakipr0> I was smart and have int there
2019-11-17T17:22:50 < dongs> any radio shit too, interrupt on received packet or soemthign
2019-11-17T17:23:31 < kakipr0> maybe I should change SPI power switch to persistent outputs
2019-11-17T17:23:51 < kakipr0> if I want to keep some external radio chip awake
2019-11-17T17:24:21 < kakipr0> 9.9mA
2019-11-17T17:24:24 < kakipr0> shieet
2019-11-17T17:24:32 < kakipr0> and that is lora radio
2019-11-17T17:25:23 < Steffanx> ah, i will keep that in mind PaulFertser
2019-11-17T17:26:09 < kakipr0> can I expect all i2c and spi interrupts to be active low?
2019-11-17T17:26:19 < dongs> wiut
2019-11-17T17:26:19 < kakipr0> practically
2019-11-17T17:30:24 < Steffanx> So your board has a 1000 and 1 features and you want it low power. Are you sure that is a good combination kakipr0?
2019-11-17T17:30:47 < kakipr0> sure
2019-11-17T17:31:01 < Steffanx> A dedicated board will probably be lower power
2019-11-17T17:31:14 < Steffanx> with just the shit  you actually use
2019-11-17T17:31:33 < Steffanx> And F107 :P
2019-11-17T17:35:41 < kakipr0> f107 shoud deep sleep reasonably low power
2019-11-17T17:36:00 < Steffanx> you dont have to keep the radio fully awake, often it can just wake periodically and listen a bit, to go sleep again. or wake on a certain rx level. 
2019-11-17T17:36:00 < kakipr0> I can populate shit I need
2019-11-17T17:36:08 < Steffanx> should work fine.
2019-11-17T17:36:19 < Steffanx> is there a cpld/fpga yet?
2019-11-17T17:36:34 < Steffanx> magically configurable interfaces are fancy.
2019-11-17T17:48:54 < kakipr0> nope
2019-11-17T17:49:15 < kakipr0> why are you thinking about fpga in low power application?
2019-11-17T17:49:34 < kakipr0> fpgas run hot even when not doing anything
2019-11-17T17:50:17 < kakipr0> just apply power and you have a heater
2019-11-17T17:50:54 < kakipr0> I had genious idea steffpa
2019-11-17T17:51:24 < Steffanx> because then you can skip your "BSR"s and have fancy features in your logic.
2019-11-17T17:51:26 < BrainDamage> computing jacket
2019-11-17T17:51:38 < Steffanx> lol, are we into jackets now?
2019-11-17T17:52:03 < kakipr0> non-persistent output extensions are not output enabled while mcu sleeps
2019-11-17T17:52:18 < kakipr0> but internal registers are still powered
2019-11-17T17:52:34 < kakipr0> as I gave up idea of switching them totally off
2019-11-17T17:52:51 < kakipr0> that can be concidered as memory
2019-11-17T17:53:03 < dongs> lol F107
2019-11-17T17:53:07 < dongs> shit-tier
2019-11-17T17:53:10 < BrainDamage> if you don't need a large amount of pins, a parllel in parallel out register works nicely as crossbar switch
2019-11-17T17:53:19 < Steffanx> it does sound a perfect solution for bitmask, BrainDamage. When he needs to heat himself up using his jacket he can mine buttcoins.
2019-11-17T17:53:27 < Mangy_Dog> f107 is a great hcip
2019-11-17T17:53:28 < Steffanx> instead of JUST wasting energy.
2019-11-17T17:53:29 < Mangy_Dog> chip
2019-11-17T17:53:55 < Steffanx> and old, Mangy_Dog
2019-11-17T17:53:57 < kakipr0> bitmask: steff said it
2019-11-17T17:54:04 < Mangy_Dog> old and well suported
2019-11-17T17:54:15 < Steffanx> in the arduino world perhaps
2019-11-17T17:54:15 < BrainDamage> or even old shit like a PLA and PAL
2019-11-17T17:54:16 < Mangy_Dog> beats atmega328
2019-11-17T17:54:18 < kakipr0> you need to place miners in your jacket
2019-11-17T17:54:19 < Mangy_Dog> :p
2019-11-17T17:54:39 < Mangy_Dog> anyway back to recording part 2
2019-11-17T17:55:56 < Steffanx> Will this one be would sad stories?
2019-11-17T17:56:42 < kakipr0> I have 11 signals to place to mcu and mcu has 11pins left
2019-11-17T17:56:58 < kakipr0> you know that feeling when pieces fall in place
2019-11-17T17:57:11 < Steffanx> and then you want more features
2019-11-17T17:57:24 < kakipr0> nope
2019-11-17T17:57:37 < Steffanx> You didnt convince me, sorry :P
2019-11-17T17:57:41 < kakipr0> it would have been nice to have timer pins exposed to external applications
2019-11-17T17:58:55 < jpa-> hm, i'm having trouble understanding STM32H7 DFSDM output data rate; e.g. for simple [1,2,1] impulse response filter (FOSR=1, FORD=2) the reference manual says i'll get an output sample once per 5 input samples - but that is ridiculous, it would be throwing away a bunch of samples and also causing aliasing
2019-11-17T18:03:11 < Mangy_Dog> well no more friends have died so no sad bits like that....
2019-11-17T18:03:16 < Mangy_Dog> but more project woes :p
2019-11-17T18:06:10 < kakipr0> https://drive.google.com/file/d/1cM-cDrEoJplqfh_xG-cHZQxghmjDlfbb/view?usp=sharing steff
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2019-11-17T18:16:17 < bitmask> ha I was already to order my board and I forgot I need a second board that I didnt start
2019-11-17T18:23:17 < jpa-> hmm, AN4990 seems to say 1/FOSR for continuous conversion
2019-11-17T18:24:32 < jpa-> ah, and refman also agrees once you scroll to the "continuous conversion" section
2019-11-17T18:31:38 < kakipr0> steff: how do you feel of my set of features?
2019-11-17T18:31:50 < kakipr0> only thing in that I don't yet know use for is can.sch
2019-11-17T18:34:05 < bitmask> man, this board only has a 0.91" oled, 4 buttons and a ffc connector but I have no idea what to do because I dont know how to mount it
2019-11-17T18:37:23 < qyx> kaki probably needs a MVP set of features written down
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2019-11-17T18:42:44 < kakipr0> englishman: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BCBgO6St9ug
2019-11-17T18:42:55 < kakipr0> that is in game footage
2019-11-17T18:43:39 < englishman> are they going to make it not suck again?
2019-11-17T18:44:00 < kakipr0> at least it's beatyful
2019-11-17T18:44:12 < kakipr0> brb>
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2019-11-17T18:54:00 < bitmask> anyone a tea drinker?
2019-11-17T18:54:32 < con3> Has anyone here maybe used an ads1100 adc from texas instruments?
2019-11-17T18:55:40 < con3> getting some wonky ass values
2019-11-17T19:04:30 < Steffanx> Sure bitmask 
2019-11-17T19:05:00 < BrainDamage> I just finished a large mug of pu er
2019-11-17T19:05:53 < bitmask> what do you like? I just ordered a bottle that comes with a tea infuser thingy and a few types of tea
2019-11-17T19:07:12 < bitmask> black tea with raspberry and passion fruit, green tea with strawberry and pineapple, and this mango pineapple thing which I dont think has actual tea in it
2019-11-17T19:07:30 < bitmask> then I'm just gonna get some like english breakfast tea or something like that
2019-11-17T19:08:16 < kakipr0> con3: ask lurence
2019-11-17T19:12:56 < kakipr0> https://store.ncd.io/product/i2c-cross-over-adapter-with-pass-through-for-i2c-cable-reversing-i2c-mini-module/ what is the name of connector?
2019-11-17T19:13:03 < kakipr0> better add footprint for that
2019-11-17T19:14:53 < kakipr0> or not
2019-11-17T19:18:25 < kakipr0> lcd contrast ladder bothers me
2019-11-17T19:18:33 < kakipr0> it consumes power
2019-11-17T19:19:07 < kakipr0> sourcing current from one pin of bsr and sinking current to another pin of bsr
2019-11-17T19:21:32 < kakipr0> how much that display consumes power anyway
2019-11-17T19:21:52 < kakipr0> probs milliamps
2019-11-17T19:22:27 < kakipr0> indeed
2019-11-17T19:22:29 < kakipr0> 1.2mA
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2019-11-17T19:32:46 < kakipr0> is 3.3V enough for contrast input pin of winstar 1602 display?
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2019-11-17T19:34:51 < rue_bed> Vconst?
2019-11-17T19:36:04 < kakipr0> ?
2019-11-17T19:43:46 < kakipr0> "supply voltage for LCD"
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2019-11-17T19:47:28 < Steffanx> Datasheet knows
2019-11-17T19:48:08 < kakipr0> 25C typical lcd operating voltage(Vdd-Vo) = 3.8V
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2019-11-17T19:48:59 < Thorn> kakipr0: no, you need lmc7660
2019-11-17T19:49:52 < kakipr0> I have 5v supply available
2019-11-17T19:49:56 < kakipr0> is that enough?
2019-11-17T19:50:26 < Thorn> yes 5V is enough
2019-11-17T19:50:58 < Thorn> but if you supply the whole display from 5V it may not be level compatible with 3v3 cmos
2019-11-17T19:51:37 < kakipr0> I have that covered
2019-11-17T19:51:56 < kakipr0> contrast adjustment is only thing bothering me
2019-11-17T19:54:53 < buZz> winstar 1602 = hd44780?
2019-11-17T19:56:24 < buZz> hmm, i guess
2019-11-17T20:01:00 < kakipr0> yes
2019-11-17T20:10:20 < con3> ok looks like the config register means bollocks on this adc
2019-11-17T20:15:20 < jpa-> hmm, i wonder what the DFSDM "FastSinc" filter is like; it is defined as ((1-z^n)/(1-z^-1))^2 * (1+z^(-2*n)) but i can't make sense out of that
2019-11-17T20:24:44 < jpa-> maybe it's meant to be ((1-z^n)/(1-z^-1))^2 * (1+z^(-2*n))/(1-z^-1)
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2019-11-17T22:01:47 < Steffanx> bitmask, while you were away we invented you a new heated jacket.
2019-11-17T22:01:59 < bitmask> oh yea?
2019-11-17T22:02:38 < Steffanx> Yeah you should replace the heating elements with cpus and mine buttcoins while you get warm
2019-11-17T22:03:48 < buZz> lol
2019-11-17T22:03:57 < buZz> Steffanx: better use ASICs then :P
2019-11-17T22:04:12 < Steffanx> Yeah, or that, but you get the point
2019-11-17T22:04:14 < buZz> i got a 10W asic chip here that can produce ~10 usdcent per day
2019-11-17T22:04:32 < buZz> afaik its already outdated so you can find em for cheap
2019-11-17T22:04:54 < bitmask> heh
2019-11-17T22:05:12 < bitmask> and costs $1 a day in electricity
2019-11-17T22:05:17 < Steffanx> but i gets you warm
2019-11-17T22:05:21 < Steffanx> *it
2019-11-17T22:05:38 < bitmask> grr, goddamn amazon, my tea thermos thingy came shattered
2019-11-17T22:05:55 < specing> and here I am with a new heat pump for heating...
2019-11-17T22:06:16 < buZz> bitmask: 10W? nah more like 20 usdcent
2019-11-17T22:06:38 < buZz> specing: oo, thermoacoustic pump?
2019-11-17T22:06:48 < specing> buZz: a what?
2019-11-17T22:06:58 < Steffanx> heatpumped heated jacket. specing?
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2019-11-17T22:07:08 < specing> no, an air-air heat pump, usually referred to as an "air conditioner"
2019-11-17T22:07:11 < buZz> specing: heatpump ..
2019-11-17T22:07:34 < buZz> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thermoacoustic_heat_engine
2019-11-17T22:08:00 < specing> sounds loud
2019-11-17T22:08:07 < Steffanx> blame amazon, bitmask
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2019-11-17T22:08:28 < bitmask> at least amazon is easy with returns, just sucks I cant use it right now
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2019-11-17T22:16:05 < englishman> neato
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2019-11-17T22:43:28 < Cracki> til: "lockwire" https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OwFjUX6SaY8
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2019-11-17T23:25:32 < kakipr0> Steffanx: files were moved from one computer to smb share
2019-11-17T23:25:37 < kakipr0> space is used
2019-11-17T23:25:47 < kakipr0> but files are not visible to other computer
2019-11-17T23:27:34 < kakipr0> also
2019-11-17T23:27:46 < kakipr0> files I have moved there before were not visible
2019-11-17T23:28:45 < Steffanx> are you talking about freenas smb or .. ?
2019-11-17T23:29:52 < kakipr0> y
2019-11-17T23:29:59 < Steffanx> what does the commandline tell you?
2019-11-17T23:32:49 < kakipr0> files are there
2019-11-17T23:33:26 < qyx> any mqtt pro here?
2019-11-17T23:33:27 < kakipr0> lets see more about them
2019-11-17T23:33:49 < Steffanx> Didnt you say a while back you were happy with your kobo h2o mr BrainDamage?
2019-11-17T23:34:01 < qyx> is there such bridge which allows me to do eg. average of the last 10 received values on a given topic and bridge/forward only the result?
2019-11-17T23:47:04 < kakipr0> such specific thing
2019-11-17T23:52:00 < Steffanx> idk kakipr0
2019-11-17T23:52:07 < Steffanx> permission thing?
2019-11-17T23:52:12 < Steffanx> your lunix caching crapping?
2019-11-17T23:53:26 < BrainDamage> Steffanx: yes, works pretty well
2019-11-17T23:53:33 < Steffanx> aura it was?
2019-11-17T23:53:57 < BrainDamage> yes, 2nd edition
2019-11-17T23:54:15 < BrainDamage> kobo aura h2o2
2019-11-17T23:57:21 < kakipr0> aura for laura
2019-11-17T23:58:12 < Steffanx> Tempted to get a libra. 
2019-11-17T23:58:20 < Steffanx> I guess I just go for it. 
--- Day changed Mon Nov 18 2019
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2019-11-18T00:03:02 < kakipr0> https://drive.google.com/file/d/1O-JtOw1Vsa3InOorpotPS1a8foWAJTPW/view?usp=sharing
2019-11-18T00:03:59 < kakipr0> module load control
2019-11-18T00:04:16 < kakipr0> these schematics make me sick
2019-11-18T00:05:53 < Steffanx> I dislike the account thing of the kobo though
2019-11-18T00:10:22 < doomba> i just keep wifi off on mine
2019-11-18T00:12:10 < Steffanx> Heh that's also a way
2019-11-18T00:12:24 < doomba> you can also put a bigger sd card in it
2019-11-18T00:13:21 < kakipr0> any A4 size?
2019-11-18T00:13:33 < doomba> 128GB worked for mine
2019-11-18T00:16:07 < qyx> wut a logic ic in a schematic
2019-11-18T00:16:11 < qyx> kaki pls
2019-11-18T00:16:14 < qyx> it is 2019
2019-11-18T00:17:01 < kakipr0> yes?
2019-11-18T00:17:05 < kakipr0> logic never dies
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2019-11-18T00:22:42 < BrainDamage> I put syncthing on mine
2019-11-18T00:23:03 < BrainDamage> they have a static armv7 build and I just launch it from the sysinit
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2019-11-18T00:35:36 < Steffanx> You rooted your kobo, BrainDamage ?
2019-11-18T00:36:18 < BrainDamage> i wouldn't call it rooting since it comes with the filesystem exposed
2019-11-18T00:38:37 < Steffanx> ah
2019-11-18T00:40:14 < kakipr0> number of passives is like 500hundred
2019-11-18T00:41:36 < qyx> I am awaiting a photo of populated prototype
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2019-11-18T00:48:59 < Steffanx> lol
2019-11-18T00:50:22 < BrainDamage> just out of curiosity, what the hell are you doing?
2019-11-18T00:52:43 < Laurenceb_> https://patents.google.com/patent/CN201781447U/
2019-11-18T00:52:45 < Laurenceb_> reeee
2019-11-18T00:52:53 < Laurenceb_> stealin muh ideaz
2019-11-18T00:53:02 < Steffanx> thanks for the chinese version
2019-11-18T00:53:31 < Steffanx> Can you also find me the patent for the time machine. Otherwise i cannot see how it's stealing, Laurenceb_ :P
2019-11-18T01:03:19 < Steffanx> nevermind, it does not exist yet, obviously.
2019-11-18T01:05:44 < doomba> yea it's just a fancy kobo lunix
2019-11-18T01:05:52 < doomba> you can run your own stuff if you cross compile
2019-11-18T01:06:29 < Steffanx> oh somehow i assumed it runs android, not sure why.
2019-11-18T01:06:34 < Steffanx> i guess because my current one does that
2019-11-18T01:06:47 < doomba> you probably have a kobo tablet
2019-11-18T01:06:52 < doomba> no e-ink?
2019-11-18T01:07:45 < Steffanx> old sony
2019-11-18T01:08:28 < Steffanx> prs-t1
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2019-11-18T01:55:57 < kakipr0> first tracks layed
2019-11-18T01:56:55 < kakipr0> schematics are not totally ready but I need some "progress"
2019-11-18T01:57:04 < kakipr0> schematics make my brain melt
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2019-11-18T01:59:30 < kakipr0> module interface at least is ready
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2019-11-18T02:31:39 < Laurenceb_> the cyber stove!!
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2019-11-18T02:50:25 < kakipr0> HC49 seems to be no option for this
2019-11-18T02:50:27 < kakipr0> it's massive
2019-11-18T03:05:40 < kakipr0> this board will cost money
2019-11-18T03:11:46 < kakipr0> 1602 makes this look like it's from 90's
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2019-11-18T03:52:20 < aandrew> jadew: ping
2019-11-18T03:59:48 < kakipr0> null>
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2019-11-18T09:05:07 < dongs> smallest RS232 IC go
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2019-11-18T09:48:41 < dongs> haha
2019-11-18T09:48:50 < dongs> every sidebar shit has now been put back into popup dialogs
2019-11-18T09:48:56 < dongs> i am just noticing it again
2019-11-18T09:49:11 < dongs> im double clicking stuff for editing and it all brings up proper modal shit
2019-11-18T09:49:19 < dongs> instead of unmanageable fucking clicks on sidenigger
2019-11-18T09:52:36 < Steffanx> What altidongs is this?
2019-11-18T09:53:59 -!- c10ud [~c10ud@emesene/dictator/c10ud] has joined ##stm32
2019-11-18T09:55:20 < dongs> https://i.imgur.com/ncKtcm9.png
2019-11-18T09:56:17 < dongs> https://i.imgur.com/8Wdu5Tv.png
2019-11-18T09:56:59 < dongs> now they just need to bring back the old altidumb color pocker
2019-11-18T09:57:03 < dongs> instead of fucking office XP shit
2019-11-18T09:57:10 < dongs> that defines a bunch o retarded pastel colors
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2019-11-18T10:41:04 < dongs> http://www.ti.com/lit/ds/symlink/lm567c.pdf when you look at TI datasheet from 1999 and it has 'functional block diagram' as actual schematic of IC contents
2019-11-18T10:41:55 < Adluc> Can altium panelize gerbers (from kicad)?
2019-11-18T10:43:31 < dongs> normally panelizing gerbers is something done by your PCB house but yeah I guess it could
2019-11-18T10:45:14 < Adluc> dongs: they want it already panelized, because inhouse they panelize only single designs, i cannot just send zips with number of how many boards i want for each design :D
2019-11-18T10:45:31 < Adluc> altium can panelize pcbdoc, but is it possible with pure gerbers?
2019-11-18T10:45:38 < dongs> I can, i just send a bunch of shit together with a mspaint of how i want it arratyed
2019-11-18T10:45:45 < dongs> yes, using their retarded CAMTASTIC shit
2019-11-18T10:45:58 < dongs> dont ask me how, that part of altium is aids
2019-11-18T10:57:54 < day> wheee wheee wheeeeee
2019-11-18T10:58:02 < day> morning noobs
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2019-11-18T11:38:42 < Steffanx> Gutentag meinherr day 
2019-11-18T11:49:12 < day> Guten Tag werter Herr Steffanx 
2019-11-18T12:01:55 < karlp> qyx: for your bridging question, not that I've ever seen "built in" that sort of thign is done by pluggable subscribers.  one of the services we run on our devices listens to "live data" and aggregates and republishs stats to a different topic.  I think nodered et all also implement things like that as common blocks, but you're always listening to one place and republishing back again.
2019-11-18T12:02:41 < karlp> hive will say "sure, in broker!" because you write plugins in java for it, so you can feel like you're avoiding the "omg innefficient!" pub/sub to message filtering services like that.
2019-11-18T12:06:59 < karlp> dongs: what are you building with tone decoders?
2019-11-18T12:07:08 < karlp> or are you building a replacement that needs to do some same shit?
2019-11-18T12:23:52 < qyx> karlp: yeah i had a ~20 line python script for that
2019-11-18T12:24:04 < qyx> until my jffs2 decided to dump some files
2019-11-18T12:27:49 < dongs> karlp: was looking at it as a cheap way to detect ntsc sync but gave up
2019-11-18T12:27:53 < dongs> still not very cheap
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2019-11-18T12:34:30 < Thorn> what part #s are they using for those pressure sensitive pads with led illumination in midi controllers?
2019-11-18T12:34:43 < dongs> what do you mean "part"?
2019-11-18T12:35:11 < dongs> its usually just a resistive pad with pcb as contact area and WS2812 or wahtever aids in the middle
2019-11-18T12:35:32 < dongs> muxed via CD4088 or wahever 8:1 analog mux and sampled with adc
2019-11-18T12:36:14 < Thorn> is it molded from silicone?
2019-11-18T12:36:21 < dongs> yeah
2019-11-18T12:36:32 < dongs> usually whole pad thing is a silicone thingy
2019-11-18T12:36:44 < dongs> i mean entire surface is one thing
2019-11-18T12:36:48 < dongs> many buttons
2019-11-18T12:36:57 < dongs> not individual per button
2019-11-18T12:36:57 < Thorn> ic
2019-11-18T12:37:28 < dongs> https://www.alibaba.com/product-detail/chink_trash_60793740360.html
2019-11-18T12:39:58 < dongs> https://i.imgur.com/xBkCXXa.png the ones i made used pads that looked like this
2019-11-18T12:40:06 < dongs> and the silicon button shtis had some black stuff on bottom
2019-11-18T12:40:13 < dongs> different pressure = would have different resistance or wahtever.
2019-11-18T12:41:37 < karlp> does that footprint you linked really give you a noticieably different resistance on pressure?
2019-11-18T12:41:48 < karlp> I thought that sort of stuff would be mostly on/off
2019-11-18T12:41:55 < dongs> karlp: combined wiht wahtever crap was in the button, yes
2019-11-18T12:42:25 < karlp> clever
2019-11-18T12:43:37 < Thorn> and it has to be enig?
2019-11-18T12:43:48 < dongs> thorn, yep
2019-11-18T12:46:11 < dongs> https://cdn.sparkfun.com//assets/parts/1/1/1/08033-03.jpg looks like sparkfuck sells it str8 out of china with HASL, lmao
2019-11-18T12:46:21 < dongs> and charges $10 for it
2019-11-18T12:47:46 < Thorn> ok thanks
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2019-11-18T13:13:22 < Sadale> That's how sparkfun makes money :P
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2019-11-18T14:59:35 < Laurenceb> https://endchan.net/.media/67e52e676326fb29a258c9d60ac4618e-imagepng.png
2019-11-18T15:02:31 < Ultrasauce> blaxlink detected
2019-11-18T15:02:50 < Laurenceb> >How to make love to a pillow filled with motor oil
2019-11-18T15:03:35 < Laurenceb> epic bbc banter
2019-11-18T15:03:59 -!- mode/##stm32 [+o englishman] by ChanServ
2019-11-18T15:04:01 -!- mode/##stm32 [+b *!*@128.243.2.33] by englishman
2019-11-18T15:04:09 -!- Laurenceb was kicked from ##stm32 by englishman [no 4chan]
2019-11-18T15:30:25 < Cracki> that is some lovingly crafted propaganda right there
2019-11-18T15:34:59 < con3> lol, laurenceb is the one guy i always see getting kicked
2019-11-18T15:37:18 < Cracki> he's doing it... for kicks
2019-11-18T15:37:39 < Cracki> >Snowball Effect CC
2019-11-18T15:37:45 < Cracki> do you guys get snow at all there?
2019-11-18T15:59:04 < con3> eh on the mountains a bit but not snow like america. More like ice blocks
2019-11-18T15:59:26 < karlp> where is con3?
2019-11-18T15:59:34 < con3> South africa
2019-11-18T15:59:40  * con3 plays lion king music
2019-11-18T16:15:05 < Mangy_Dog> no
2019-11-18T16:15:08 < Mangy_Dog> DONT YOU DO THAT
2019-11-18T16:15:41 < Mangy_Dog> why do you want to make me cry :(
2019-11-18T16:19:17 < BrainDamage> Mangy_Dog: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2nXGPZaTKik
2019-11-18T16:23:05 < Mangy_Dog> he
2019-11-18T16:23:06 < Mangy_Dog> h
2019-11-18T16:26:02 < Steffanx> Sadale: is alive :o arent you on the streets?
2019-11-18T16:26:08 < Sadale> I'm at home.
2019-11-18T16:26:14 < Sadale> I'm politically neutral.
2019-11-18T16:26:31 < Sadale> Just because I'm living in Hong Kong doesn't mean that I'm a protestor :3
2019-11-18T16:28:27 < Steffanx> Hah. I know. Just implying otherwise
2019-11-18T16:28:55 < BrainDamage> how's the overall climate?
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2019-11-18T16:35:36 < Thorn> jlc & lcsc packages arrived
2019-11-18T16:36:38 < Thorn> what do
2019-11-18T16:36:39 < Thorn> (a) food (b) sleep (c) assemble boards (d) your choice ________
2019-11-18T16:37:13 < zyp> (d) masturbate
2019-11-18T16:37:53 -!- fenugrec [~fenugrec@24.105.71.66] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds]
2019-11-18T16:40:00 < jpa-> (a) to LaurenceB links (b) to pcb layout
2019-11-18T16:56:19  * con3 
2019-11-18T16:56:26  * con3 clicks (d)
2019-11-18T16:56:28  * con3 clicks (a)
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2019-11-18T17:34:12 < kakipr0> what was the kicad button to toggle directions?
2019-11-18T17:34:21 < kakipr0> ie. arc direction
2019-11-18T17:34:34 < kakipr0> track routing toggling
2019-11-18T17:35:01 < kakipr0> make that snake snake
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2019-11-18T17:55:47 <@englishman> BrainDamage: 23°C and clear
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2019-11-18T18:36:08 < buZz> kakipr0: 'R' ?
2019-11-18T18:52:58 < kakipr0> right mouse button opens a list where i click it *shrug*
2019-11-18T18:53:50 < buZz> kakipr0: R the keyboard button ...
2019-11-18T18:54:35 < kakipr0> nope
2019-11-18T18:55:41 < buZz> ok
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2019-11-18T19:09:05 < karlp> fucking mysql/maria
2019-11-18T19:10:50 < karlp> can't run multiple create table statements with ; in a single exec call.
2019-11-18T19:12:04 < BrainDamage> there's probably some weird optimization for multiple calls
2019-11-18T19:12:24 < BrainDamage> eg that multiple calls on the same statement don't hit disk vs separate
2019-11-18T19:15:28 < karlp> I'm sure there's wonderful reasons for it, I just want to be able to have a schema file and load it up,
2019-11-18T19:15:41 < karlp> now I've gotten it broken up into a file per table, which seems like madness.
2019-11-18T19:28:42 < mawk> I found an apartment in the center Steffanx 
2019-11-18T19:28:53 < mawk> a rijks monument or something
2019-11-18T19:31:46 < Steffanx> heh, cool.
2019-11-18T19:31:57 < Steffanx> anything in delft is a rijksmonument i guess :P
2019-11-18T19:33:22 < Steffanx> since when mysql -u username -p new_database < somedump.sql no longer works, karlp?
2019-11-18T19:37:29 < karlp> because I'm not working like that.
2019-11-18T19:37:58 < Steffanx> you should :P
2019-11-18T19:38:03 < karlp> I've got some schema sql that I want to run from the daemon that is going to be writing to the db
2019-11-18T19:38:10 < Steffanx> ah
2019-11-18T19:38:28 < karlp> and having a file for postgres worked,
2019-11-18T19:38:47 < karlp> and after fucking with all the primary key and types "comaptibilities" for mysql/maria, it ws still not working
2019-11-18T19:38:53 < karlp> had to run one statement per.
2019-11-18T19:39:24 < karlp> was trying to split on ; but then was getting "empty queries" and shit, so just fuck it, have a file per table if you like.
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2019-11-18T19:42:48 < con3> fuck this current sense amplifier
2019-11-18T19:42:59 < Steffanx> nah ty
2019-11-18T19:44:29 < Steffanx> Im not sure if we can tolerate such language, con3
2019-11-18T19:45:04 < doomba> speaking of colorful language, ayyyyy dongs. how u doin' ?
2019-11-18T19:45:25 < BrainDamage> this channel is strictly PG-13 to match the mental maturity of its users
2019-11-18T19:45:51 < Steffanx> ASL BrainDamage
2019-11-18T19:46:03 < Steffanx> or whatever it was
2019-11-18T19:46:23 < BrainDamage> here's the akronym for a sickness
2019-11-18T19:46:45 < BrainDamage> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Amyotrophic_lateral_sclerosis
2019-11-18T19:46:54 <@englishman> als
2019-11-18T19:46:58 <@englishman> you nerd
2019-11-18T19:47:01 < con3> sorry Steffanx, wasnt aware we werent allowed to swear
2019-11-18T19:47:13 < Steffanx> Yes that's ALS. 
2019-11-18T19:47:20 < doomba> my grandpa died of ALS
2019-11-18T19:47:23 < aandrew> lou gherig's disease
2019-11-18T19:47:25 < Steffanx> oops.
2019-11-18T19:47:25 < BrainDamage> in italian it's ASL
2019-11-18T19:47:28 < Steffanx> ah
2019-11-18T19:47:30 < aandrew> that's one fucking awful disease
2019-11-18T19:47:33 < Steffanx> i was referring to https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Age/sex/location
2019-11-18T19:47:37 < doomba> yes it is.
2019-11-18T19:47:48 < aandrew> all those wasting diseases can just fuck right off
2019-11-18T19:47:49 <@englishman> here's the name for a disease too https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dyslexia 
2019-11-18T19:47:50 < doomba> the last thing he ever said to me was "HNGGGGGGGGGGRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRUhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh"
2019-11-18T19:47:57 < doomba> because it took his vocabulary
2019-11-18T19:47:59 < Steffanx> that's what 13yo do right? Ask such thing
2019-11-18T19:48:05 < aandrew> I'm sorry, doomba 
2019-11-18T19:48:22 < doomba> i wouldn't wish anyone to go through a family member having ALS. it's truly awful.
2019-11-18T19:48:51 < Steffanx> i wouldnt wish it to you either, doomba
2019-11-18T19:48:56 < aandrew> yep. my maternal grandmother had dimentia which is another one of those horrible, horrible diseases that robs you of yourself like some kidn of fucking parasite 
2019-11-18T19:48:58 <@englishman> I have installed vivado webPACK and a vivado webPACK license
2019-11-18T19:49:04 <@englishman> am I an FPGA expert yet
2019-11-18T19:49:08 < aandrew> englishman: lol
2019-11-18T19:49:15 < aandrew> only if you implement a shitty bitcoin miner or GPU
2019-11-18T19:49:24 < Steffanx> 17GB+ package englishman. its fucking HUUGE
2019-11-18T19:49:31 < Steffanx> with a shitload of compilers and libaries
2019-11-18T19:49:31 <@englishman> ha
2019-11-18T19:49:32 <@englishman> no
2019-11-18T19:49:35 < con3> Steffanx: language
2019-11-18T19:49:37 <@englishman> it's more like 45gb
2019-11-18T19:49:38 < con3> :p
2019-11-18T19:49:46 < BrainDamage> my father has alzheimer
2019-11-18T19:50:06 < Steffanx> ay
2019-11-18T19:50:13 < BrainDamage> but he's an asshole and actually become a better person because of it
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2019-11-18T19:50:47 < Steffanx> oof, my grandma had it too. but she was fucking awful.
2019-11-18T19:50:56 < Steffanx> [language is right here, con3 :P] 
2019-11-18T19:51:16 < con3> does maxim integrated not have a forum :/
2019-11-18T19:51:38 -!- learning1 [~pi@121.122.85.43] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds]
2019-11-18T19:52:54 < Steffanx> She was never nice, but not unfriendly, after she got "sick" she turned into someone very unfriendly. Saying things you wouldnt want you mother say to you.
2019-11-18T19:53:23 < Steffanx> or to anyone.
2019-11-18T19:53:55 < con3> Has anyone here maybe maybe maybe used the max9920 current sense amplifier?
2019-11-18T19:53:57 < Steffanx> maxim just expects you to read their appnotes/blogs/whatever well, con3
2019-11-18T19:54:39 < mawk> it's right in delft center like I wanted
2019-11-18T19:55:00 < Steffanx> 1k+?
2019-11-18T19:55:07 < mawk> yeah 1k exactly
2019-11-18T19:55:09 < Steffanx> euro.
2019-11-18T19:55:10 < Steffanx> damn
2019-11-18T19:55:19 < mawk> or 950 maybe
2019-11-18T19:55:21 < BrainDamage> con3: try explaining the problem instead of asking meta-questions
2019-11-18T19:56:07 < con3> BrainDamage: I dont really know whats wrong the cs is just popping out 4V although it's connected as described in the diagram. I'm rereading the datasheet real quick and then I'll ask
2019-11-18T19:56:48 < doomba> BrainDamage: that is interesting
2019-11-18T19:57:16 < doomba> BrainDamage: blissful forgetfulness? :)
2019-11-18T19:57:18 < BrainDamage> doomba: it didn't change his personality, it just made him more passive/catatonic
2019-11-18T19:57:25 < BrainDamage> and more forgetful, yes
2019-11-18T19:57:41 < doomba> my old man will likely get alz
2019-11-18T19:57:47 < doomba> he is already forgetting things a lot
2019-11-18T19:57:53 < BrainDamage> which means he's not as actively trying to ruin other people's life
2019-11-18T19:57:57 < doomba> he's showing early stages of dementia/alz
2019-11-18T19:58:16 < doomba> i pretty much babysit him
2019-11-18T19:58:18 < BrainDamage> there's multiple forms of dementia, it won't necessarily be alzheimer
2019-11-18T19:58:19 < doomba> since 2014
2019-11-18T19:58:25 < doomba> he had a major surgery
2019-11-18T19:58:36 < doomba> then a back surgery
2019-11-18T19:58:44 < Steffanx> i thought you were moving around in some van type vehicle, doomba
2019-11-18T19:58:47 < BrainDamage> eg aneurysms often can produce similar symptoms
2019-11-18T19:58:49 < doomba> Steffanx: yes.
2019-11-18T19:59:02 < Steffanx> you have him in the back?
2019-11-18T19:59:06 < doomba> lol no
2019-11-18T19:59:11 < BrainDamage> in thee trunk
2019-11-18T19:59:22 < doomba> i travel for weeks->months at a time and my old man's house is like my home base
2019-11-18T19:59:34 < doomba> basically i'm gone as long as i can be but eventually i get pulled back because of his health issues
2019-11-18T20:00:20 < doomba> he's so far still able to work his little sit-down jobs.
2019-11-18T20:00:38 < doomba> but that's about it. he can go to work and come home and vegetate
2019-11-18T20:00:49 < doomba> barely functional beyond that
2019-11-18T20:01:26 < doomba> the place where he works is like a retirement home. it's all dying boomers. i have no idea how they hold that place together and keep customers.
2019-11-18T20:02:04 < Steffanx> they're cheap iguess? Whatever they're selling/doing
2019-11-18T20:02:07 < doomba> like one of the dudes has whatever syndrome is caused by agent orange from viet nam.
2019-11-18T20:02:30 < doomba> they are tax accountants / payroll specialists
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2019-11-18T20:03:13 < doomba> his neighborhood is mostly retired veterans with PTSD.
2019-11-18T20:03:16 < doomba> it's really interesting
2019-11-18T20:03:38 < doomba> the weird stuff these people do around here. like blow leaves every day for 4+ hours... one leaf at a time as they fall from the trees.
2019-11-18T20:03:43 < Steffanx> Welcome in the YOU ASS of AAA.
2019-11-18T20:04:40 < qyx> I was always wondering how do they manage to have such nice lawns and things
2019-11-18T20:04:59 < doomba> a bunch of stuff broken on the house. i bought him an excercise machine to try to get him motivated
2019-11-18T20:05:07 < doomba> but he won't use it yet
2019-11-18T20:05:14 < doomba> so i use it every morning lol
2019-11-18T20:05:23 < doomba> then in the spring i'm outta here again
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2019-11-18T20:28:54 < Steffanx> the spring is still ages from now
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2019-11-18T20:33:07 < bitmask> eyelet tool came, the punch is god aweful
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2019-11-18T20:43:42 < Steffanx> uh?
2019-11-18T20:45:17 < jpa-> does it taste awful or not enough alcohol in it?
2019-11-18T20:46:12 < Steffanx> how do you like it, jpa-?
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2019-11-18T20:47:00 < jpa-> i usually order my eyelet tools without beverages
2019-11-18T20:47:12 < bitmask> ha
2019-11-18T20:47:51 < Steffanx> i dont order eyelet tools at all. i go to my mom, she has those tools. She usually has some beverages in the fridge too.
2019-11-18T20:48:25 < jpa-> sounds like a nice mom, can i visit her too?
2019-11-18T20:48:31 < Steffanx> sure
2019-11-18T20:49:02 < bitmask> wonder if i can sharpen it without screwing it up
2019-11-18T20:49:04 < jpa-> "Hello madam Naffets, I'm a friend of your son Steffie."
2019-11-18T20:49:44 < Steffanx> why everyone seems to think naffets it my last name, lol
2019-11-18T20:50:08 < bitmask> because everyones name is a palindrome
2019-11-18T20:50:14 < jpa-> because of naffets.nl
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2019-11-18T20:51:52 < Steffanx> indeed mr 532bor
2019-11-18T20:51:57 < bitmask> :)
2019-11-18T20:52:15 < Steffanx> waffle.express exists too, jpa-
2019-11-18T20:52:45 < Steffanx> but it only emails
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2019-11-18T22:07:48 < bitmask> good thats over, holes drilled into battery terminals now
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2019-11-18T22:14:28 < kakipr0> pics
2019-11-18T22:22:18 < bitmask> https://i.imgur.com/600V6AD.png?1
2019-11-18T22:25:48 < doomba> bitmask: are those those new fancy batteries that you can cut in half and they don't explode?
2019-11-18T22:26:39 < bitmask> doubt it
2019-11-18T22:26:56 < doomba> there is some company that makes paper thin very lightweight batteries that don't explode
2019-11-18T22:26:59 < doomba> they are selling samples
2019-11-18T22:27:12 < bitmask> would be nice
2019-11-18T22:27:37 < doomba> they don't have much juice but they would be kind of perfect for really low power iot stuff
2019-11-18T22:30:02 -!- jsoft [~jsoft@unaffiliated/jsoft] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds]
2019-11-18T22:31:29 < kakipr0> nice packs bitmask
2019-11-18T22:31:34 < kakipr0> sorry cells
2019-11-18T22:34:28 < bitmask> my solid brass eyelets arent here yet, not sure what the ones that came with it are made out of, so I guess I'll wait to charge them up 
2019-11-18T22:36:29 < bitmask> these cells were only $4.50 each
2019-11-18T22:36:57 < bitmask> pretty sure they are slightly used
2019-11-18T22:38:08 < bitmask> but im sure they are fine for relatively low power stuff like im doing
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2019-11-18T22:40:15 < qyx> bitmask: linky linky
2019-11-18T22:40:38 < bitmask> not sure if they are still on sale, let me find it
2019-11-18T22:41:44 < bitmask> https://batteryhookup.com/products/4-200a-lithium-polymer-3-7v-8ah-flat-pouch-cells-lipo-batteries
2019-11-18T22:42:48 < kakipr0> yes
2019-11-18T22:42:50 < bitmask> they were used for hybrid busses but they changed their mind or something and so they have a bunch
2019-11-18T22:42:57 < kakipr0> 200A
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2019-11-18T22:49:30 < kakipr0> is there any low power solutions for coloumb counting?
2019-11-18T22:49:41 < kakipr0> micropower solutions
2019-11-18T22:49:41 < Steffanx> is there some software usb for stm32? Not that i want it, but this thingy i have here has a usb connector, but the F100 has no USB.
2019-11-18T22:49:50 < Steffanx> i get the idea its just uart.
2019-11-18T22:50:12 < Steffanx> over a usb b mini connector
2019-11-18T22:50:20 < kakipr0> steff?
2019-11-18T22:50:24 < kakipr0> are you okay?
2019-11-18T22:51:03 < Steffanx> Im ok, you?
2019-11-18T22:52:54 < kakipr0> ofc not
2019-11-18T22:53:04 < Steffanx> Dont die.
2019-11-18T22:53:14 < kakipr0> I'm resilient
2019-11-18T22:54:32 < bitmask> I think I'm going with this toaster oven, I like the way the door rolls up and it looks like I might have a decent view of the solder melting because of the curved shape
2019-11-18T22:54:32 < bitmask> https://www.walmart.com/ip/Hamilton-Beach-Easy-Reach-4-Slice-Toaster-Oven-Model-31334/24215984
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2019-11-18T22:59:49 < Steffanx> what makes you think im not ok, mr kakipr0?
2019-11-18T23:00:05 < kakipr0> you ask weird question
2019-11-18T23:02:41 < Steffanx> Not really.
2019-11-18T23:02:56 < qyx> yes theres a ton of fuel gauges
2019-11-18T23:03:10 < qyx> they are usually very low power
2019-11-18T23:03:41 < Steffanx> oh, are you going for MORE features, kakipr0?
2019-11-18T23:03:45 < Steffanx> what about those pins
2019-11-18T23:03:46 < qyx> you may simply abuse a single cell gauge for higher voltages
2019-11-18T23:04:18 < kakipr0> this is energy management platform but only thing the host has is DCBUS voltage
2019-11-18T23:04:36 < kakipr0> gauge is anyway a task for battery module
2019-11-18T23:04:43 < kakipr0> but thinking ahead ofc
2019-11-18T23:05:23 < kakipr0> kinda hate it that there is no internal current monitoring
2019-11-18T23:05:33 < Steffanx> Here have some Bob. https://m.twitch.tv/bobross/profile
2019-11-18T23:05:38 < Steffanx>  ^ kakipr0
2019-11-18T23:06:17 < kakipr0> by internal current monitoring I mean I don't know how much current output of main regulator is
2019-11-18T23:07:21 < kakipr0> take some classic trance steff https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M-JiB7oJYxM
2019-11-18T23:08:24 < Steffanx> Good Ross photo.
2019-11-18T23:10:46 < Steffanx> is that classic?
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2019-11-18T23:21:20 < kakipr0> it's not a classic
2019-11-18T23:21:25 < kakipr0> but classical*
2019-11-18T23:25:05 < kakipr0> it's funfun to connect 12 interconnected lines between 6module connectors steff
2019-11-18T23:25:10 < kakipr0> 12+gnd
2019-11-18T23:25:24 < kakipr0> 2 of them also power rails
2019-11-18T23:28:21 < Steffanx> go for a 6 layer board.
2019-11-18T23:28:24 < Steffanx> or 12
2019-11-18T23:30:08 < kakipr0> this is one of those boards you realize instantly even 4 is going to be tight
2019-11-18T23:31:54 < kakipr0> if 6 layers are required it kills the economics of this
2019-11-18T23:35:27 < kakipr0> it's big steff
2019-11-18T23:35:39 < kakipr0> 250mm x 120mm
2019-11-18T23:35:39 < qyx> it isn't yet
2019-11-18T23:36:22 < qyx> with all the protections, tvs, movs, spark gaps, efuses, fuses, etc
2019-11-18T23:36:27 < qyx> idk if 250x120 is enuff
2019-11-18T23:36:38 < Steffanx> My name is not steff, mr kakipr0.
2019-11-18T23:37:12 < kakipr0> my name is not kaki
2019-11-18T23:37:51 < Steffanx> i know
2019-11-18T23:38:20 < kakipr0> what fuses qyx?
2019-11-18T23:38:56 < qyx> how are you going to break the short circuit current of the batt?
2019-11-18T23:39:11 < qyx> a few kA's?
2019-11-18T23:39:58 < kakipr0> host hub doesn't have anything to do with it
2019-11-18T23:40:15 < qyx> just asking
2019-11-18T23:41:18 < kakipr0> blade fuse to battery terminal should do it
2019-11-18T23:42:12 < qyx> and the batt voltage is?
2019-11-18T23:42:52 < kakipr0> 9-30V
2019-11-18T23:44:29 < qyx> interesting, they are rated to 1kA
2019-11-18T23:44:33 < qyx> I was not expecting that much
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2019-11-18T23:59:19 < Cracki> https://www.railstotrails.org/
--- Day changed Tue Nov 19 2019
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2019-11-19T01:39:24 < kakipr0> how is nightcrew tonight?
2019-11-19T01:40:41 < qyx> commiting
2019-11-19T01:44:39 < karlp> killing mantisaurs
2019-11-19T01:45:48 < kakipr0> playing some newest games?
2019-11-19T01:46:02 < kakipr0> karlp: were are you from I forgot
2019-11-19T01:46:08 < kakipr0> where* *?
2019-11-19T01:46:23 < bitmask> lithuania
2019-11-19T01:50:50 < kakipr0> pcb ordered bitmask?
2019-11-19T01:51:03 < bitmask> not yet, still figuring out the control board
2019-11-19T01:55:37 < qyx> also commting other stuff
2019-11-19T01:56:33 < Steffanx> Go sleep. You're dick, kakimir
2019-11-19T01:56:40 < Steffanx> Sick.
2019-11-19T01:56:48 < Steffanx> Lol @ typo 
2019-11-19T01:57:35 <@englishman> kakipr0: how accurate does it have to be?
2019-11-19T01:57:41 <@englishman> do you have a constant load
2019-11-19T01:57:45 < kakipr0> nope
2019-11-19T01:57:54 < qyx> Steffanx: :D
2019-11-19T01:58:12 <@englishman> instead of actually measuring you can just guess
2019-11-19T01:59:54 < qyx> so, for a exterior keyboard
2019-11-19T02:00:01 < qyx> with large buttons ~20x20mm
2019-11-19T02:00:16 < qyx> a bit more rugged
2019-11-19T02:00:19 < qyx> is capsense an option?
2019-11-19T02:00:44 < qyx> I would overlay the pcb with some thin plastic, metal board behind the pcb
2019-11-19T02:00:53 <@englishman> sounds like you want a membrane switch?
2019-11-19T02:01:17 < qyx> probably but capsense is easier
2019-11-19T02:01:28 < qyx> than making a custom membrane
2019-11-19T02:01:36 <@englishman> instead of trying to detect button presses, just guess
2019-11-19T02:01:43 < qyx> not bad
2019-11-19T02:01:46 < qyx> any idea?
2019-11-19T02:02:05 <@englishman> does your chip have a good prng
2019-11-19T02:02:17 < qyx> yeah, a hardware one
2019-11-19T02:02:29 < qyx> oh much quantum
2019-11-19T02:02:33 < qyx> I get it
2019-11-19T02:02:41 <@englishman> maybe make an app for it instead
2019-11-19T02:02:56 <@englishman> then offload all the processing to teh cloud
2019-11-19T02:03:39 < Steffanx> Did you pick some lotto649 numbers yet, englishman ?
2019-11-19T02:03:40 < qyx> mqtt over loar should suffice
2019-11-19T02:03:56 <@englishman> why is that steffy
2019-11-19T02:04:10 < Steffanx> You seem to be into guessing lately
2019-11-19T02:04:20 <@englishman> instead of buying lottery tickets i spent all my money on sigfox base stations
2019-11-19T02:04:35 < qyx> have you seen mikrotik loras?
2019-11-19T02:04:39 <@englishman> yeah
2019-11-19T02:04:45 <@englishman> rip rak wireless
2019-11-19T02:04:48 < qyx> did you buy one yet?
2019-11-19T02:04:52 <@englishman> <3 mikrodik
2019-11-19T02:04:56 < Steffanx> Ohno, the french invention
2019-11-19T02:04:59 <@englishman> no i havent had time to work on that project
2019-11-19T02:05:05 <@englishman> maybe deeper in winter
2019-11-19T02:05:29 < qyx> mybe I should start doing lora tindies too
2019-11-19T02:05:33 <@englishman> this year ive just been finishing other boring shit so i can work on fun stuff like that without guilt
2019-11-19T02:05:40 < Steffanx> No country wise sigfox yet, in canadaland?
2019-11-19T02:05:46 <@englishman> lol noone uses that aids
2019-11-19T02:05:47 < Steffanx> Wide.
2019-11-19T02:05:57 < qyx> sigfox is ded
2019-11-19T02:06:05 < Steffanx> Dutchland is covered 
2019-11-19T02:06:17 < qyx> narrowband lte s coming slowly
2019-11-19T02:06:49 <@englishman> covered with an unused, empty network
2019-11-19T02:07:02 < qyx> with 12 bytes max packet length
2019-11-19T02:07:09 < qyx> or what
2019-11-19T02:07:20 < kakipr0> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ua5iwYLxNPc musics/video
2019-11-19T02:07:26 < Steffanx> At least it's a private network then :)
2019-11-19T02:08:07 < kakipr0> englishman: what to do with sigfox?
2019-11-19T02:08:08 < kakipr0> is it internets?
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2019-11-19T03:21:36 < Laurenceb_> looollll
2019-11-19T03:21:50 < Laurenceb_> Musk just forced latina thot out of her house
2019-11-19T03:21:56 < Laurenceb_> >trusting Musk ever
2019-11-19T03:23:28 < Laurenceb_> now she is moaning on the Musk hero worship forumz that she has nowhere to live
2019-11-19T03:26:17 < kakipr0> what a suprise
2019-11-19T03:27:47 < Laurenceb_> its all cool until he stealz ur ideas/ buys up the whole company / bulldozez ur house
2019-11-19T03:29:56 < Laurenceb_> >she hoped he would get her pregnant
2019-11-19T03:30:05 < Laurenceb_> >instead he bulldozed her house
2019-11-19T03:30:27 < kakipr0> bulldozed her house?
2019-11-19T03:31:11 < Laurenceb_> yeah to expand the "spaceport" on the mexican border
2019-11-19T03:31:24 < kakipr0> https://drive.google.com/file/d/19JZkezy7-vdQ5JSN07dwaUXnVVg9oKJd/view?usp=sharing building my vintage board
2019-11-19T03:31:39 < kakipr0> that 1602 kills all the sex
2019-11-19T03:31:43 < Laurenceb_> he has court documents or however it works in murica to demolish her house
2019-11-19T03:32:39 < kakipr0> when do we party Laurenceb_?
2019-11-19T03:32:52 < Laurenceb_> she met with him last month and it was all cool like "I'll just move out of the house when rocket is launching"
2019-11-19T03:33:09 < Laurenceb_> then today she got served with court documents and forced out of her house
2019-11-19T03:33:22 < Laurenceb_> Musk'd
2019-11-19T03:34:03 < Laurenceb_> kakipr0: when I quit my jerb in a week
2019-11-19T03:34:11 < Laurenceb_> sheeet my passport has expired :(
2019-11-19T03:34:25 < Laurenceb_> will have to order a new one
2019-11-19T03:35:24 < Laurenceb_> I met a drunk Polish guy today, he was like "reeeee brexit reeeeee now I have to go home"
2019-11-19T03:35:36 < Laurenceb_> at first I lolld but it was a bit sad
2019-11-19T03:37:00 < kakipr0> where do you want to go?
2019-11-19T03:37:41 < Laurenceb_> Finland
2019-11-19T03:41:00 < Laurenceb_> https://moretimespace.files.wordpress.com/2014/05/farageballoonbylblack.jpg?w=490
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2019-11-19T04:00:31 < aandrew> I'd be curious how that goes, eminent domain is how I suspect that happened, but it's a little more than "you gotta leave, sucks2beu"
2019-11-19T04:09:53 < kakipr0> Laurenceb_: are you comming to kakibunker?
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2019-11-19T04:26:09 < kakipr0> null>
2019-11-19T04:26:16 < kakipr0> Laurenceb_: are you comming to kakibunker?
2019-11-19T04:29:13 < dongs> oh fucking altidumb
2019-11-19T04:29:18 < dongs> select some parts
2019-11-19T04:29:19 < dongs> drag
2019-11-19T04:29:21 < dongs> space to rotate
2019-11-19T04:29:31 < dongs> designators remain in same place...
2019-11-19T04:29:34 < kakipr0> sounds good
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2019-11-19T04:30:35 < kakipr0> what is wrong dongs?
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2019-11-19T04:31:58 < kakipr0> null>
2019-11-19T04:33:29 < dongs> they used to rotate together with the parts being moved
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2019-11-19T04:34:36 < kakinull> null
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2019-11-19T04:38:54 < R2COM> sup niggas
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2019-11-19T04:40:36 < kakinull> sup r2
2019-11-19T04:48:20 < dongs> holy shit this is BAD
2019-11-19T04:48:29 < dongs> refdes not moving makes for a fucking disgusting rotating experience lma
2019-11-19T04:48:31 < dongs> what a shit tool
2019-11-19T04:48:39 < dongs> im gonna upgrade to fucking orcad
2019-11-19T04:51:53 < kakinull> schematic or layour?
2019-11-19T04:52:49 < dongs> layout
2019-11-19T04:54:31 < kakinull> oh wow
2019-11-19T04:54:39 < kakinull> they are even more progressive than kicad
2019-11-19T04:54:46 < kakinull> try kicad
2019-11-19T04:56:07 < dongs> yeah no
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2019-11-19T05:04:44 <@englishman> Laurenceb_: 
2019-11-19T05:04:46 <@englishman> fuck
2019-11-19T05:04:49 <@englishman> asshole
2019-11-19T05:11:38 -!- boB_K7IQ [~boB_K7IQ@152.44.129.202] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds]
2019-11-19T05:17:59 < kakinull> I need bedtime story englishman
2019-11-19T05:29:26 < dongs> https://imgur.com/a/kEI8JgK what the FUCK ALTIUM
2019-11-19T05:33:06 < kakinull> that's bad
2019-11-19T05:33:10 < kakinull> ragecall them
2019-11-19T05:34:03 < dongs> why would rotating parts stop rotating refdes
2019-11-19T05:34:06 < dongs> this is fucking retarded
2019-11-19T05:40:23 < dongs> oh WHAT
2019-11-19T05:40:43 < dongs> its not that its not rotating them
2019-11-19T05:40:46 < dongs> its thinking they're in right place
2019-11-19T05:40:52 < dongs> EGP -> center also fucks it up
2019-11-19T05:40:53 < dongs> damn
2019-11-19T05:40:54 < dongs> what teh FUCK
2019-11-19T05:40:57 < dongs> how can tehy break such basic shit
2019-11-19T05:42:31 < kakinull> have you tried turning it off and back on again?
2019-11-19T05:45:07 < aandrew> Im not sure I see what you're raging out
2019-11-19T05:45:08 < aandrew> about
2019-11-19T05:45:21 < dongs> aandrew: select, rotate
2019-11-19T05:45:24 < dongs> refdes stays
2019-11-19T05:45:30 < dongs> in same place.
2019-11-19T05:45:39 < dongs> or rather
2019-11-19T05:45:44 < dongs> it arranges it in some retard way
2019-11-19T05:45:47 < dongs> but still not the right way
2019-11-19T05:46:02 < aandrew> sounds like they're either locked or exploded from the part
2019-11-19T05:46:07 < dongs> before/after is literally, lasso select, click EP, start drag and pres ssapce
2019-11-19T05:46:09 < dongs> nope
2019-11-19T05:46:11 < dongs> thats refdes
2019-11-19T05:46:14 < dongs> nothing is locked
2019-11-19T05:46:17 < dongs> this is normal shit i usaully do
2019-11-19T05:48:57 < aandrew> weird
2019-11-19T05:54:13 < kakinull> does changelog say anything?
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2019-11-19T05:57:04 <@englishman> kakinull: just go to bed dumbass
2019-11-19T05:57:21 <@englishman> 6am
2019-11-19T05:57:25 <@englishman> what happened to your realjob?
2019-11-19T05:58:39 < dongs> Added the ability to enter relative (Delta offset) distances in the Jump To Location feature dialog. (BC:8492)
2019-11-19T05:58:42 < dongs> ahaha
2019-11-19T05:58:43 < dongs> fuckin finally holy shit
2019-11-19T06:02:05 < dongs> Updated system text storage to Unicode (UTF-8) to ensure that text-based symbols and characters are correctly interpreted. (BC:718)
2019-11-19T06:02:08 < dongs> hahaha
2019-11-19T06:02:10 < dongs> BC718 is from like 1995
2019-11-19T06:02:26 < dongs> people have been asking altifuck to start using unicode so wehn you open chink pcbdoc you don't get random ascii
2019-11-19T06:03:12 <@englishman> chinks finally have a reason to upgrade from altidumb summer '02
2019-11-19T06:03:16 < dongs> lmao
2019-11-19T06:10:22 < dongs> A new option has been added to the Advanced Settings dialog (accessed from the System - General page of the Preferences dialog) - UI.DisableFractalMode. When enabled, this option prevents any further combination of workspace panels in a fractal nature. Note that it does not separate those grouped panels that already existed in a fractal layout prior to enabling the option.
2019-11-19T06:10:27 < dongs>  ?????????
2019-11-19T06:11:29 <@englishman> this guy doing altidumb layout uses the undo and redo buttons
2019-11-19T06:12:03 < dongs> like clicking them on the bar?
2019-11-19T06:12:08 <@englishman> yes
2019-11-19T06:12:17 < dongs> is he not aware of ctrl+z and ctrl+r or wahtever
2019-11-19T06:12:22 <@englishman> right
2019-11-19T06:12:26 < dongs> er ctrL=y
2019-11-19T06:12:38 < dongs> sounds liek a pro
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2019-11-19T06:15:19 <@englishman> what the fuck is fractal mode
2019-11-19T06:15:55 <@englishman> https://gs.altium.com/index.php?q=gcs&keys=fractal&type=documentation&pagemap_space_ades=on
2019-11-19T06:16:05 <@englishman> TotalResults 0
2019-11-19T06:16:27 <@englishman> that is the first time that has ever happened in the history of altidumb search
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2019-11-19T06:17:28 < dongs> yeah, fractal wat
2019-11-19T06:17:38 -!- fenugrec [~fenugrec@24.105.71.66] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds]
2019-11-19T06:18:00 < dongs> https://www.altium.com/documentation/altium-designer/working-with-panels-in-altium-designer?version=17.0#!WorkingwithPanelsinAltiumDesigner-FractalPanelGrouping
2019-11-19T06:18:31 < dongs> i dont know why they reinvented all this shit
2019-11-19T06:18:32 <@englishman> gross
2019-11-19T06:18:36 < dongs> just to go back to modal dialogs
2019-11-19T06:18:42 < dongs> after removing them from 17+
2019-11-19T06:18:47 < dongs> just to reintroduce the shit back in 20
2019-11-19T06:18:53 < dongs> because thats obcviosuly what people actually wanted
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2019-11-19T06:46:42 < bitmask> why the fuck is this copper pour filling outside my board shape
2019-11-19T06:47:12 < dongs> cuz once the pour shape is made it doesnt track the board outline
2019-11-19T06:47:14 < dongs> delete and re-create
2019-11-19T06:48:56 < bitmask> still doing it
2019-11-19T06:49:38 < bitmask> https://i.imgur.com/l9q3WaB.png
2019-11-19T06:49:42 < bitmask> thats what it looks like in 3d mode
2019-11-19T06:50:05 < bitmask> those semi circles shouldnt be there
2019-11-19T06:51:29 < dongs> did you actually add that as board cutouts
2019-11-19T06:51:35 < bitmask> yea
2019-11-19T06:51:50 < bitmask> shows a dotted line around it
2019-11-19T06:53:32 < bitmask> something funky is going on
2019-11-19T06:57:55 < dongs> ?
2019-11-19T07:03:20 < bitmask> wtf, there was no board outline clearance rule set
2019-11-19T07:03:27 < bitmask> adding a rule fixed it
2019-11-19T07:03:48 < bitmask> maybe I usually set that from the start and didnt think about it
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2019-11-19T08:09:54 < jly> hello jly
2019-11-19T08:11:55 < aandrew> dongs: tga won't fix that?
2019-11-19T08:12:05 < aandrew> (copper pour outside of board extents)
2019-11-19T08:13:13 < jly> Hey Google..... reinvent the holocaust
2019-11-19T08:20:48 < dongs> no
2019-11-19T08:20:56 < dongs> cuz the pour outline is fixed
2019-11-19T08:20:59 < dongs> it doesnt track board dimensions
2019-11-19T08:29:36 < jly> is ethercat a pain in the knob?
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2019-11-19T08:51:16 < dongs> what about etherdog
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2019-11-19T08:54:39 < jly> some EE i went to the 'university' with was saying it is annoying
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2019-11-19T09:22:54 < dongs> great...
2019-11-19T09:23:01 < dongs> routing vias are untended by default
2019-11-19T09:23:08 < dongs> and they removed UI to actaully change that during routing
2019-11-19T09:23:10 < dongs> fucking cunts
2019-11-19T09:23:17 < dongs> untented
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2019-11-19T10:40:40 < jly> 18 for life
2019-11-19T10:41:18 < jly> the dogfuckers sent me 3 offers to upgrade after my subscription lapsed 
2019-11-19T10:43:21 < dongs> the jap deal kept dropping to around $4k or so
2019-11-19T10:43:26 < dongs> was the last offer they had for me
2019-11-19T11:16:03 < karlp> kakinull: .is
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2019-11-19T12:37:36 < karlp> witness the continuing destruction of reasons for 802.15.4, BT continues it's march forwards, dominating from the consumer electronics side: https://www.digikey.com/en/product-highlight/d/dialog-semi/smartbond-da14531-ble-soc
2019-11-19T12:43:37 < dongs> smartDONG
2019-11-19T12:43:46 < dongs> is there arduino IDE (tm) for it yet>?
2019-11-19T12:44:01 < dongs> so that even more Internet of Shit devices can be created by copypasting shit from stackoverflow
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2019-11-19T13:58:08 <@englishman> fcgqfn24
2019-11-19T13:58:10 <@englishman> cool
2019-11-19T13:58:30 < karlp> the wlcsp is 0.5mm pitch, qfn in 0.4mm
2019-11-19T14:40:42 < dongs> karlp: are you innovating somethign with that?
2019-11-19T14:40:53 < dongs> so if its OTP how do you develop?
2019-11-19T14:40:55 < dongs> all in ram?
2019-11-19T14:42:35 < karlp> not me no,
2019-11-19T14:42:37 < karlp> just like it.
2019-11-19T14:42:58  * karlp has done nothing with bluetooth beyond figuring out how to get the bluetooth interface up on my sunxi baord.
2019-11-19T14:43:11 < qyx> what sunxi baord?
2019-11-19T14:43:45 < dongs> some allwhiner shit prolly
2019-11-19T14:44:59 < karlp> qyx: got the bluetooth side of the ap6212 module working on my nanopi duo2.
2019-11-19T14:45:13 < karlp> I like the idea of maybe having bluetooth... just never done anything with it really
2019-11-19T14:46:20 <@englishman> we are months into hw Dev for this imx6 project and the software guys haven't been able to use btle yet, let alone the spec'd two simultaneous devices
2019-11-19T14:46:41 < karlp> heh. 
2019-11-19T14:46:55 < karlp> I spoke to a cpyress dude about how many devices we could _really_ use with bt 5 mesh stuff
2019-11-19T14:47:14 < karlp> he got very "uhhh, you. uhhh, might want to really test that yourself" when I said I wanted like 30 devices.
2019-11-19T14:47:27 <@englishman> hehehe
2019-11-19T14:47:48 < kakipr0> sup afternoon crew
2019-11-19T14:48:08 <@englishman> kakimir waking up at the crack of noon as usual
2019-11-19T14:48:26 < kakipr0> it's bad englishman
2019-11-19T14:51:17 < Steffanx> Poor kakipr0 is sick. Dont be so mean to him englishman  
2019-11-19T14:51:24 < Steffanx> Man flu.
2019-11-19T14:51:47 <@englishman> oh, good time to irc then
2019-11-19T14:52:14 <@englishman> that shit had my ass on the couch for a week last month
2019-11-19T14:53:20 < kakipr0> no Steffanx I'm not sick anymore
2019-11-19T14:53:25 < kakipr0> only mentally
2019-11-19T15:05:37 < Steffanx> It is known
2019-11-19T15:08:58 < Ultrasauce> https://bongripper.bandcamp.com/album/terminal
2019-11-19T15:10:51 < Steffanx> Is it as weird as it looks?
2019-11-19T15:11:15 < kakipr0> must be
2019-11-19T15:11:21 < kakipr0> it's ultrasauce
2019-11-19T15:11:31 < Ultrasauce> :^)
2019-11-19T15:12:18 < day> englishman: which ble stack do they use?
2019-11-19T15:12:57 <@englishman> idk, lunix
2019-11-19T15:13:24 < day> bluez?
2019-11-19T15:13:28 < day> rip
2019-11-19T15:17:03 < Steffanx> What colourful keyboard do you have englishman  ?
2019-11-19T15:26:17 <@englishman> the magnetic one
2019-11-19T15:26:18 <@englishman> xmit
2019-11-19T15:26:23 <@englishman> from massdrop
2019-11-19T15:28:16 < kakipr0> does vertical hanrun rj45+magnetics have same footprint than horizontal?
2019-11-19T15:29:02 < karlp> day: what are the alternatives?
2019-11-19T15:30:06 < day> the issue with it is the absence of examples/ documentations etc. seeing that ive never seen an alternative makes me believe the alternatives if they exist arent much better
2019-11-19T15:30:58 < kakipr0> http://www.hanrun.com/en//upload/p/2018-11-12/b37e926b433c4de7924af163fcd997e9.jpg pin pattern looks pretty identical by looking this only reference image of the thing
2019-11-19T15:31:00 < day> i think with bluez you are required to throw a lot of coins into a specific piggybank, then it probably is great :P
2019-11-19T15:34:43 < karlp> I found your question odd then.  "what are they using? shittystack? gonna suck then" would imply to me that there _is_ alternatives, and you recommend them
2019-11-19T15:34:56 < karlp> otherwise it's just "bluetootch? gonna suck then" 
2019-11-19T15:36:10 < zyp> karlp, are you saying 30 devices is a challenge for bt mesh?
2019-11-19T15:37:06 < karlp> the dude I spoke to implied that you'd definitely wantt o be testing that in your environment
2019-11-19T15:37:12 < karlp> but *shrugs* I aint done nothing.
2019-11-19T15:37:16 < zyp> heh
2019-11-19T15:37:26 < karlp> did depend on bandwidth requirements too.
2019-11-19T15:37:43 < zyp> I thought bt mesh was supposed to be a zigbee killer
2019-11-19T15:37:53 < karlp> it is, I believe.
2019-11-19T15:38:18 < karlp> they both seem to actually suck if you want to do more than a few bits of on/off shit more than once every 10 minutes or something though
2019-11-19T15:38:55 < zyp> I currently have 31 devices in my home zigbee shit, and no indication of scaling issues yet
2019-11-19T15:39:29 < karlp> what's your datarate though?
2019-11-19T15:39:38 < karlp> this was in context of "I want to continually get data from them"
2019-11-19T15:40:29 < zyp> dunno, it's mainly lights and temp sensors, and they only send when they have anything to update
2019-11-19T15:51:19 < karlp> postgres: to_timestamp.  mysql: from_unixtime.  thanks arseholes
2019-11-19T16:08:52 < Steffanx> Wut?
2019-11-19T16:10:17 < karlp> have milliseconds since epoch, want timestamp column.
2019-11-19T16:10:39 < karlp> off topic though. let me try again...
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2019-11-19T16:26:33 < Steffanx> Just as on topic as bluetooth, karlp :P
2019-11-19T16:38:45 <@englishman> I hear the new lunix is a windows killer
2019-11-19T16:46:18 < Steffanx> New lunix...
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2019-11-19T16:48:14 < day> karlp: i was hoping they had an alternative already, that i didnt know about.
2019-11-19T16:48:30 < karlp> didn't android build a new one, then go back to the old one again?
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2019-11-19T17:00:37 < con3> hakuna matata
2019-11-19T17:24:24 < Steffanx> Goedendag, con3  
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2019-11-19T17:35:56 < bitmask> w00t
2019-11-19T17:36:03 < bitmask> boards ordered
2019-11-19T17:36:07 < bitmask> damn expensive
2019-11-19T17:36:27 < bitmask> $33 for shipping, the boards and stencil were half that
2019-11-19T17:39:57 < jpa-> when ordering from jlcpcb, it's useful to specify smaller custom size for stencil to save on shipping costs
2019-11-19T17:40:21 < jpa-> (unless, of course, you need it to fit a standard holder/frame)
2019-11-19T17:41:46 < bitmask> yea I chose the smallest
2019-11-19T17:42:14 < jpa-> IIRC the smallest standard size there is like 40x30 cm or other huge
2019-11-19T17:42:28 < jpa-> while for most hobby pcb's, 10x15 or something is enough
2019-11-19T17:42:28 < bitmask> yea it was 40x30 including the framework
2019-11-19T17:42:48 < jpa-> ah you wanted framework, well yeah, then it's gonna be large anyway
2019-11-19T17:42:51 < bitmask> the usable dimensions were twice the size of my board, so 4x the area
2019-11-19T17:43:14 < jpa-> non-framework with custom size doesn't raise shipping price and can ship by epacket - but dhl is of course still ~20 EUR
2019-11-19T17:43:56 < bitmask> oh custom size, didnt realize you said that, thats good to know if I ever want just the stencil
2019-11-19T17:44:26 < bitmask> I got scared when I read about stretching the stencil and keeping it square so I figured for my first run id get the framework
2019-11-19T17:44:26 < jpa-> yeah, the shipping calculator seems to be smart enough to realize that custom size is smaller than standard sizes
2019-11-19T17:44:54 < jpa-> yeah, that part is easier with framework - but i find that my table is way too full to have space for 30x40 cm framework :D
2019-11-19T17:45:37 < jpa-> i just put other pcbs on the side of the one i'm pasting over and hold the floppy stencil with my fingers
2019-11-19T17:45:57 < jpa-> if doing something precise, i use double-sided tape to hold the "border pcbs"
2019-11-19T17:47:22  * karlp will try using scrap pcbs next time.  cutting the outline in the cardboard that came with the stenicl as suggested was a bit tedious.
2019-11-19T17:47:43 < jpa-> isn't the cardboard wrong height anyway?
2019-11-19T17:47:55  * karlp shrugs
2019-11-19T17:48:02 < bitmask> I know its not ideal, but will it be fine to use a toaster oven without a reflow controller? if I test the temperature at certain settings and do my best to follow a heating profile? I will have all the parts to turn it into a smart reflow oven but not sure I want to write the code right now
2019-11-19T17:48:28 < jpa-> bitmask: yeah, it will work, but it's very easy to overheat that way
2019-11-19T17:48:34 < bitmask> hmm
2019-11-19T17:48:36 < karlp> bitmask: yeah, it's fine.  we have some notes on a board here like, "turn on oven full, when thermo reads xxx turn off and crack door"
2019-11-19T17:48:56 < karlp> last time though I've just used hot air to assemble.
2019-11-19T17:48:58 < jpa-> bitmask: if you have electric stove, tape the pcb onto a flat piece of metal with kapton tape and put the stove on full heat
2019-11-19T17:49:08 < bitmask> I already ordered the toaster oven
2019-11-19T17:49:20 < jpa-> i find the stove method is much more foolproof than uncontrolled toaster oven
2019-11-19T17:49:34 < bitmask> I dont have electric stove anyway
2019-11-19T17:50:00 < jpa-> yeah, well you'll get by
2019-11-19T17:50:37 < bitmask> I would work on the reflow controller but I still have to design a case and 3d print it for both boards, and figure out how I'm attaching everything
2019-11-19T17:50:44 < bitmask> still lots to do 
2019-11-19T17:50:52 < jpa-> preheat oven to ~200C, put board in, put on full heat, throw dice to decide whether to use "bottom only" or "top and bottom" setting, keep until you see stuff melt, hold breath, when you can't hold breath anymore, open door
2019-11-19T17:51:16 < bitmask> heh
2019-11-19T17:51:47 < bitmask> I ordered this oven specifically because I think you can see the top of the board better, the glass is curved
2019-11-19T17:52:29 < bitmask> https://www.target.com/p/hamilton-beach-4-slice-easy-reach-oven-gray-31334/-/A-14563456
2019-11-19T17:52:36 < bitmask> and I like how the door rolls up
2019-11-19T17:52:50 < jpa-> i eventually got fed up with random results with my toaster oven and started using stovetop method
2019-11-19T17:53:01 < bitmask> were you using a controller?
2019-11-19T17:53:16 < jpa-> only those cheap chinese PID controllers that you set things manually
2019-11-19T17:53:46 < bitmask> salcedo sent me one of his boards, but he didnt finish the software and I havent seen him in here
2019-11-19T17:53:47 < Steffanx> Why didnt you control the temp more mr devembedded?
2019-11-19T17:53:51 < jpa-> and other complicating factors are that the oven is the cheapest possible + i keep it in unheated outside storage room, so the temperature is different every time
2019-11-19T17:54:46 < jpa-> but, as said, it's crazy how easy everything seems to work with stove - if i had bothered to try that first, i would never have wasted time with the oven
2019-11-19T17:55:04 < jpa-> of course now that i say this, the next board i make will go horribly wrong and i'll go back to the oven
2019-11-19T17:55:11 < zyp> kinda hard to do doublesided assembly on stove
2019-11-19T17:55:21 < jpa-> impossible, i would say
2019-11-19T17:55:26 < zyp> :)
2019-11-19T17:55:50 < zyp> my chinesium reflow oven worked fine
2019-11-19T17:55:54 < zyp> and haven't caught on fire yet
2019-11-19T17:56:02 < bitmask> im nervous that im not gonna be able to do this right
2019-11-19T17:56:10 < bitmask> set the solder paste and place the components
2019-11-19T17:56:13 < zyp> bitmask, so what? that's how you learn
2019-11-19T17:56:15 < bitmask> im sure im worrying for nothing
2019-11-19T17:56:32 < zyp> a few fuckups are inevitable
2019-11-19T17:56:39 < jpa-> bitmask: you can repeat the paste + place step as many times as you want
2019-11-19T17:57:03 < jpa-> but be prepared to have a few boards where you end up burning everything into horrible brown bad smelling trophee
2019-11-19T17:57:08 < zyp> that's also true
2019-11-19T17:57:22 < zyp> if you fuck up paste, just wipe it off with IPA and start over
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2019-11-19T17:58:42 < bitmask> thing im worried about most is this sqfn20 4x4mm package
2019-11-19T17:59:37 < Steffanx> Dont be
2019-11-19T17:59:39 < zyp> got a pic of your board?
2019-11-19T17:59:51 < zyp> qfn is easy to fuck up
2019-11-19T17:59:56 < Steffanx> Dont you have some hot air thingy?
2019-11-19T18:00:11 < bitmask> no hot air yet
2019-11-19T18:00:20 < Steffanx> Ah
2019-11-19T18:00:31 < bitmask> one sec i'll make a render of the board
2019-11-19T18:00:42 < bitmask> I probably have one on imgur thats recent enough actually
2019-11-19T18:00:54 < jpa-> my hands shake a lot, but i've never fucked up a board by bad placement of components - it has always been overheat / underheat (or just plain wrong design)
2019-11-19T18:01:03 < bitmask> https://i.imgur.com/JCNAv8Y.png
2019-11-19T18:01:15 < jpa-> atmega? you traitor
2019-11-19T18:01:20 < bitmask> yea my hands shake when im trying to stay still
2019-11-19T18:01:28 < zyp> bitmask, got a closeup of the qfn footprint?
2019-11-19T18:01:42 < bitmask> heh well I started this with an arduino nano for whatever reason, had it around, so Instead of rewriting my code I went with this
2019-11-19T18:01:46 < jpa-> bitmask: do you have soldermask between the qfn pins?
2019-11-19T18:02:09 < Ultrasauce> https://www.gerblook.org/ bitmask
2019-11-19T18:02:38 < bitmask> no soldermask between qfn pins, I didnt think that was possible
2019-11-19T18:03:02 < zyp> probably not
2019-11-19T18:04:57 < jpa-> maybe not; IIRC jlcpcb manages soldermask between 0.5mm lqfp pins just fine, but that's probably at the limit
2019-11-19T18:05:52 < bitmask> https://i.imgur.com/s0FM4qD.png
2019-11-19T18:06:02 < bitmask> sqfn footprint
2019-11-19T18:06:03 < bitmask> https://i.imgur.com/YMb3d08.png
2019-11-19T18:06:11 < bitmask> and thats the small control board
2019-11-19T18:06:27 < bitmask> with a ffc connector on the back
2019-11-19T18:06:39 < zyp> hmm, should be decent enough
2019-11-19T18:07:31 < jpa-> nice trick to ease alignment is to put small dots on the copper layer, then if you have microscope right above you can align by them
2019-11-19T18:07:58 < jpa-> but most qfn's have the pads visible on sides also which makes alignment easy
2019-11-19T18:08:22 < bitmask> yea thats the one thing im hopeful for, the pads visible on the sides
2019-11-19T18:08:47 < bitmask> gerblook is slow or I killed it with my board
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2019-11-19T18:48:02 < bitmask> ugh, I shouldnt have made this list...
2019-11-19T18:48:03 < bitmask> https://hastebin.com/asequqejij.txt
2019-11-19T18:48:11 < bitmask> I'm sure I forgot stuff too
2019-11-19T18:48:52 < aandrew> heh
2019-11-19T18:49:00 < aandrew> I do that from time to time as well when I wonder why the fuck I can't get anything done
2019-11-19T18:49:06 < bitmask> heh
2019-11-19T18:49:10 < aandrew> then you look at it and go "oh."
2019-11-19T18:51:10 < bitmask> this is one expensive heated jacket...
2019-11-19T18:52:38 < bitmask> I mean per jacket cost isn't bad at all but adding in the toaster oven and other reusable stuff as well as over-ordering components incase of fuckups, it adds up
2019-11-19T18:54:02 < bitmask> I will have to figure out how much the parts for one jacket come to
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2019-11-19T19:21:39 <@englishman> FPGA blinky in 15min
2019-11-19T19:21:42 <@englishman> vivado sure is e z
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2019-11-19T19:23:28 <@englishman> next step is colour wheel
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2019-11-19T19:49:55 < kakipr0> bitmask: apparently you have never ordered 300usd boards?
2019-11-19T19:50:19 < kakipr0> and I have never ordered 3000usd boards
2019-11-19T19:53:01 < Steffanx> vhdl or verilog englishman?
2019-11-19T19:53:11 < Steffanx> or soft core + c?
2019-11-19T19:56:26 <@englishman> vhdl ofc
2019-11-19T19:56:41 <@englishman> maybe I'll try one of those riscV cores
2019-11-19T19:56:45 < Steffanx> for someone on that side of the globe is not THAT "ofcourse" :P
2019-11-19T19:57:35 < con3> ayyy
2019-11-19T19:57:47 < sync> Steffanx: it usually is tho
2019-11-19T19:59:17 < Steffanx> in canuckland that is sync?
2019-11-19T19:59:42 < sync> in northamerica land
2019-11-19T20:01:08 < Steffanx> i always thought verilog was more common there
2019-11-19T20:01:15 < Steffanx> and when you work for ARM.
2019-11-19T20:01:18 < Steffanx> *or
2019-11-19T20:04:39 < aandrew> HDL isn't particularly hard but doing it the right way can become tricky and takes experience
2019-11-19T20:05:57 < Steffanx> so are the days till 1800, mawk?
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2019-11-19T20:41:53 < mawk> almost Steffanx yes
2019-11-19T20:41:56 < mawk> I don't quite understand
2019-11-19T20:42:10 < mawk> starts at 9, then some leave at 17h30, some at 18h00
2019-11-19T20:42:27 < mawk> I leave at 18h30 to capitalize on extra time
2019-11-19T20:42:31 < mawk> to be able to take breaks and smoke
2019-11-19T20:42:37 < mawk> rather vape
2019-11-19T20:45:33 < kakipr0> is there axis lock button in kicad?
2019-11-19T20:45:45 < kakipr0> when manipulating layout
2019-11-19T20:46:00 < Steffanx> damn, mawk.
2019-11-19T20:46:13 < kakipr0> I want to keep one axis in place while moving another
2019-11-19T20:46:19 < kakipr0> because grid difference
2019-11-19T20:48:10 < mawk> what Steffanx 
2019-11-19T20:48:16 < mawk> they never take breaks, it's horrible
2019-11-19T20:48:40 < mawk> even besides the vaping you can't focus when you stay 5 hours straight in front of the screen
2019-11-19T20:49:30 < Steffanx> no, but breaks are .. a common thing where i work
2019-11-19T20:50:24 < Steffanx> 2x15 minutes + 0.5 hour/day. and then my get some coffee/tea breaks :P
2019-11-19T20:50:41 < mawk> I should train them to take breaks
2019-11-19T20:51:04 < Steffanx> Yeah, suddenly they would get more effective :P
2019-11-19T20:51:12 < Steffanx> damn stop using :P please, Steffanx
2019-11-19T20:51:26 < mawk> :d
2019-11-19T20:54:19 < Steffanx> not even a lunch break, mawk?
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2019-11-19T20:55:19 < mawk> yeah lunch break
2019-11-19T20:55:26 < mawk> but they start working again as soon as they finish
2019-11-19T20:56:02 < Steffanx> heh
2019-11-19T20:56:06 < zyp> how many hours is a standard work week there?
2019-11-19T20:56:38 < Steffanx> 38-40
2019-11-19T20:57:14 < qyx> no work on caturday?
2019-11-19T20:57:16 < zyp> here it's 37.5, so a normal workday consists of 7.5 hours of paid work and 30 minutes unpaid lunch
2019-11-19T20:57:48 < Steffanx> 8 is common here i think. + 30 min unpaid lunch
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2019-11-19T21:01:11 < Steffanx> the 2x15 min is paid. At least it was for all jobs i had so far.
2019-11-19T21:05:35 < qyx> agile says there are only 6 productive hours a day
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2019-11-19T21:06:11 < kakipr0> true
2019-11-19T21:07:50 < qyx> https://blog.amazingmarvin.com/how-many-hours-can-you-actually-be-productive-in-a-day/
2019-11-19T21:11:05 < kakipr0> 4.5hours after reading and taking that in
2019-11-19T21:22:42 < Steffanx> sauna time kakipr0
2019-11-19T21:23:02 < kakipr0> it is
2019-11-19T21:25:49 < bitmask> how often do you guys change your car's cabin air filter
2019-11-19T21:26:11 < bitmask> I just changed mine after like 3 years, I don't know how any air got through it
2019-11-19T21:26:12 < kakipr0> when ever
2019-11-19T21:26:31 < kakipr0> if I feel like it and have one at hand
2019-11-19T21:26:37 < kakipr0> so you feel like it now
2019-11-19T21:26:48 < kakipr0> you can change it then
2019-11-19T21:27:01 < bitmask> already did, guess I'm good for another few years :)
2019-11-19T21:29:28 < kakipr0> if you do construction or mining then those filter are changed in tighter pace
2019-11-19T21:30:22 < Steffanx> i dont do it bitmask
2019-11-19T21:30:28 < Steffanx> its part of the anual check uo
2019-11-19T21:30:29 < Steffanx> up
2019-11-19T21:30:40 < bitmask> how much does that cost
2019-11-19T21:30:56 < bitmask> or is that part of a new car service plan
2019-11-19T21:31:31 < kakipr0> I change engine air filter more often than fresh air filter
2019-11-19T21:31:46 < Steffanx> im not sure bitmask. too much that for sure
2019-11-19T21:33:42 < Steffanx> im too lazy to change the oil myself etc. so i have people do it for me
2019-11-19T21:33:57 < bitmask> I dont do my own oil, I did once, you barely save anything, its not worth it
2019-11-19T21:34:03 < bitmask> plus they top off your other fluids
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2019-11-19T21:40:54 <@englishman> vivado now synthesizing with zero FF/luts
2019-11-19T21:40:57 <@englishman> wtf
2019-11-19T21:41:02 <@englishman> no errors
2019-11-19T21:41:20 < aandrew> englishman: that means your outputs aren't used, so it reduces the logic to get rid of anything not needed
2019-11-19T21:41:37 <@englishman> they are used
2019-11-19T21:41:45 < aandrew> you can use 'keep' and 'noprune' attributes (those are quartus attributes, not sure what the vivado ones are)
2019-11-19T21:41:50 < aandrew> englishman: you *think* they are :-)
2019-11-19T21:43:52 <@englishman> nothing to indicate they are not
2019-11-19T21:46:07 <@englishman> literally process (clk)
2019-11-19T21:46:08 < Steffanx> except for zero FF/luts :P
2019-11-19T21:46:19 <@englishman> output <= '1';
2019-11-19T21:46:25 <@englishman> plus some other shit
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2019-11-19T21:48:56 <@englishman> the schematic shows all my shit
2019-11-19T21:49:05 < aandrew> yes, it's found a way to reduce the logic to a simple out <= 1
2019-11-19T21:49:13 < aandrew> gotta look at your logic to see wtf it's doing
2019-11-19T21:49:14 < aandrew> schematic?
2019-11-19T21:49:18 < aandrew> oh TL
2019-11-19T21:49:19 < aandrew> RTL
2019-11-19T21:49:27 <@englishman> yeah
2019-11-19T21:49:35 <@englishman> everything is where it should be
2019-11-19T21:49:42 < aandrew> that RTL output must be pre-synthesis
2019-11-19T21:49:53 < aandrew> er pre-mapping sorry
2019-11-19T21:51:02 <@englishman> it is, but I see shit being mapped
2019-11-19T21:51:38 <@englishman> nope. just pads
2019-11-19T21:51:50 <@englishman> so synth is raping my nice schematic
2019-11-19T21:52:11 < aandrew> yes, and 99.9% of the time it's because the logic maps to some static state
2019-11-19T21:52:47 <@englishman> back to the fuckin drawing board
2019-11-19T21:55:08 <@englishman> maybe my processes are not processing somehow
2019-11-19T21:58:22 < aandrew> pastebiin your code
2019-11-19T21:58:33 <@englishman> put back my original blinky and it works
2019-11-19T21:58:34 <@englishman> wtf
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2019-11-19T22:07:52 < mawk> what is the name of our sector of activity Steffanx ?
2019-11-19T22:07:59 < mawk> for the brutto netto calculation
2019-11-19T22:08:13 < mawk> Algemeen ?
2019-11-19T22:08:30 < mawk> Electrotechnische industrie ?
2019-11-19T22:11:26 < Steffanx> Im not sure if it really matters. I think its some CAO, i dont have that
2019-11-19T22:11:33 < Steffanx> or the company i work for doesnt have that
2019-11-19T22:11:49 < Steffanx> CAO = https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Collective_agreement
2019-11-19T22:13:24 < karlp> bah, do I use the "new, improved, more like standard" pciex footprint added to kicad? or stick with my, "works proven, but not quite the same" footprint...
2019-11-19T22:14:03 < Steffanx> yes
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2019-11-19T22:21:37 < kakipr0> that sauna.. man
2019-11-19T22:22:31 < qyx> I made my own pci-e footprint
2019-11-19T22:22:53 < qyx> and I am still using it
2019-11-19T22:23:16 < qyx> starting to do the first bunch of designs for the thing
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2019-11-19T22:43:24 < qyx> if I have a MOV + L + TVS protection on the input
2019-11-19T22:43:45 < qyx> and I would like to use it as an PI input filter too
2019-11-19T22:44:27 < qyx> the cap parallel to the MOV should be voltage rated a bit above the MOV clamping voltage if i understand it correctly
2019-11-19T22:44:30 < qyx> any objections?
2019-11-19T22:45:33 < qyx> ok, I have one, if the fuse in series with the MOV blows, the cap would get full transient and blow too
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2019-11-19T23:00:30 < Cracki> is it cheap enough
2019-11-19T23:08:46 < qyx> I want the protection to fail open
2019-11-19T23:09:07 < qyx> the cap would short the thing
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2019-11-19T23:12:20 < kakipr0> are you talking about battery input qyx?
2019-11-19T23:12:25 < Cracki> cap gets another fuse?
2019-11-19T23:12:27 < qyx> no, solar
2019-11-19T23:13:10 < qyx> battery wires are too short to get such high transients
2019-11-19T23:14:21 < kakipr0> fuse for cap
2019-11-19T23:14:24 < kakipr0> are you sure?
2019-11-19T23:14:27 < kakipr0> massive cap?
2019-11-19T23:14:36 < kakipr0> accumulator of sorts?
2019-11-19T23:19:10 < qyx> X2/Y2 cap would do
2019-11-19T23:19:17 < qyx> 400V rated
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2019-11-19T23:30:24 < kakipr0> if you buy solar charger for 12V lead acid it doesn't have such caps for sure
2019-11-19T23:31:18 <@englishman> aandrew, how do I trigger a process from a signal internal to a vhdl file
2019-11-19T23:32:22 <@englishman> like I have one process that diddles a signal
2019-11-19T23:32:54 <@englishman> then another process in the same file that is process(mysignal) then if rising_edge(signal) blah
2019-11-19T23:34:40 < qyx> 12V lead acid solar charger has nothing
2019-11-19T23:40:54 < aandrew> I'd not do that
2019-11-19T23:41:19 < aandrew> englishman: rising_edge(clk) and then if signal = '1' then or someshit
2019-11-19T23:41:31 < aandrew> I'd not recommend using signals as clocks
2019-11-19T23:41:41 <@englishman> oh
2019-11-19T23:42:02 < aandrew> if you do process(clk) if rising_edge(clk) then if mysig = '1' then ... the tool will properly infer a clock enable
2019-11-19T23:42:18 <@englishman> I thought a clock was just a std_logic
2019-11-19T23:42:40 < aandrew> it is
2019-11-19T23:42:51 <@englishman> so it's signal'event and signal=1 iirc?
2019-11-19T23:43:29 <@englishman> anyway it literally is a clock that's been clocked down for local use
2019-11-19T23:43:31 < aandrew> that's the same as rising_edge()
2019-11-19T23:43:40 < aandrew> again bad idea
2019-11-19T23:43:40 <@englishman> but the synth gets rid of my process
2019-11-19T23:44:00 <@englishman> ok, why?
2019-11-19T23:44:24 < aandrew> you should try to use as few actual real clocks as possible, drive *all* the logic with it and then generate clock enable signals that are 1T wide and use those to drive the clock enables of the logic
2019-11-19T23:45:19 <@englishman> ok, but my processs are still process (signal) if rising_edge(signal) right?
2019-11-19T23:46:04 < aandrew> englishman: a few reasons: clocks are routed on an entirely different network (high fanout, low skew). the physical structure of the device means you should try to keep signals out of the clock nets, and clocking logic with logic tends to make that clocked logic harder to route and meet timing due to increased jitter
2019-11-19T23:46:10 < aandrew> englishman: no
2019-11-19T23:46:12 < aandrew> something liek this
2019-11-19T23:46:23 < aandrew> signal 1hz_ce: std logic;
2019-11-19T23:46:32 < aandrew> gen_1hz: process(clk)
2019-11-19T23:46:34 < qyx> https://i.imgur.com/ymih3Pt.png
2019-11-19T23:46:47 < qyx> so how to test if the thing survives strike to the mast
2019-11-19T23:46:49 < aandrew>     variable ctr: integer range 0 to 999999
2019-11-19T23:46:51 < aandrew>       begin
2019-11-19T23:47:02 < aandrew>       if rising_edge(clk) then
2019-11-19T23:47:31 < aandrew>         gen_1hz <= '0';
2019-11-19T23:47:39 < aandrew>         if ctr = ctr'high then
2019-11-19T23:47:45 < aandrew>           ctr := 0;
2019-11-19T23:47:52 < aandrew>           gen_1hz <= '1';
2019-11-19T23:47:57 < aandrew>         end if
2019-11-19T23:48:02 < aandrew>     end if
2019-11-19T23:48:20 < aandrew> that generates a 1T signal every second (based on a 1MHz clock)
2019-11-19T23:48:23 < aandrew> then
2019-11-19T23:48:33 < aandrew> you'd have a process that you want to do its thing once a second:
2019-11-19T23:48:46 < aandrew> do_1hz: process(clk)  -- note it's still the 1MHz clock
2019-11-19T23:48:48 < aandrew> begin
2019-11-19T23:48:53 < aandrew>     if rising_edge(clk) then
2019-11-19T23:49:01 < aandrew>         if 1hz_ce = '1' then
2019-11-19T23:49:07 < aandrew>             -- do the 1hz stuff here
2019-11-19T23:49:11 < aandrew>         end if
2019-11-19T23:49:15 < aandrew>     end if
2019-11-19T23:49:20 < aandrew> end process do_1hz;
2019-11-19T23:49:29 <@englishman> ok it's certainly better practice
2019-11-19T23:49:30 < aandrew> if you look at the RTL from that you'll see that there's only one clock
2019-11-19T23:49:42 <@englishman> but why does the synthesizer delete my shit
2019-11-19T23:49:51 < aandrew> and then 1hz_ce is routed to the CE of the FFs used in the do_1hz process
2019-11-19T23:49:59 < aandrew> I need to see your code to know for sure
2019-11-19T23:50:11 < aandrew> qyx: eagle detected
2019-11-19T23:50:17 < qyx> no
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2019-11-19T23:50:24 <@englishman> I'll be playing with that again tomorrow got another meeting now
2019-11-19T23:50:31 <@englishman> thx
2019-11-19T23:51:16 < aandrew> qyx: that's a lot of voltage sensors
2019-11-19T23:51:32 < aandrew> I'd have to model that ovp just to make sure the thresholds look right for the specific barts
2019-11-19T23:51:35 < aandrew> but that's the idea
2019-11-19T23:51:48 < qyx> yeah I need to play a bit with the values
2019-11-19T23:51:59 < qyx> the mov + tvs combination is meh
2019-11-19T23:52:09 <@englishman> where is gen1hz in the second process?
2019-11-19T23:52:12 < aandrew> out of curiousity why use two 100ks with the PV_RAW_SENSE and PV_IRV_SENSE but only one with PV_RP_SENSE and PV_OVP_SENSE?
2019-11-19T23:52:22 <@englishman> or did you interchange gen1hz and 1hzce
2019-11-19T23:52:25 < qyx> to prevent spark over
2019-11-19T23:52:29 < aandrew> englishman: gen_1hz is the process that creates the 1hz_ce
2019-11-19T23:52:29 < qyx> two 1206's
2019-11-19T23:52:39 < qyx> englishman: I was about to ask the same
2019-11-19T23:52:44 <@englishman> where tho?
2019-11-19T23:52:47 < qyx> but I had not seen vhld since uni
2019-11-19T23:52:54 < aandrew> englishman: I fucked that up. gen_1hz is the signal that is high for 1T every second and is used by the do_1hz process to make the logic work only once a second
2019-11-19T23:52:58 < aandrew> fuck!
2019-11-19T23:53:05 <@englishman> hehe no worries
2019-11-19T23:53:16 <@englishman> the same as ce
2019-11-19T23:53:34 < aandrew> englishman: I fucked that up 1hz_ce is the signal that is high for 1T every second and is used by the do_1hz process to make the logic work only once a second. gen_1hz is the process that creates that 1hz_oe signal for use in other processes
2019-11-19T23:53:47 <@englishman> right
2019-11-19T23:54:04 <@englishman> I'll implement that tomorrow
2019-11-19T23:54:15 < qyx> aandrew: and te last two are hopefully sufficiently transient filtered to prevent it
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2019-11-19T23:56:45 < aandrew> qyx: well RP isn't preventing an overvoltage from getting through, although you are clipping with that 22n and SMCJ43A
2019-11-19T23:56:48 < aandrew> so yeah
2019-11-19T23:58:23 < qyx> I wanted to use a ready made efuse with RP and OVP and a single back-to-back n-mosfet
2019-11-19T23:58:31 < qyx> something like LM5060 or whatever
2019-11-19T23:58:47 < qyx> but I was not able to find anything
--- Day changed Wed Nov 20 2019
2019-11-20T00:00:34 < aandrew> it also looks like you're connecting to a potentially noisy/nasty signal. hard to tell if the fancy all-in-ones would handle it
2019-11-20T00:01:40 < qyx> a mast with a pv panel on a hill, so idk
2019-11-20T00:03:40 < qyx> the downside of this solution are p-mosfets
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2019-11-20T00:13:23 < gregorian> hii
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2019-11-20T00:14:15 < qyx> hello fellow friend
2019-11-20T00:15:07 < qyx> having volno? its not friday yet
2019-11-20T00:17:12 < gregorian> qyx: i know that not friday
2019-11-20T00:18:55 < gregorian> qyx: you understand what is word volno ?????
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2019-11-20T00:20:00 < qyx> sure
2019-11-20T00:22:23 < gregorian> qyx: are you from cz?
2019-11-20T00:22:45 < qyx> from .sk directly
2019-11-20T00:23:05 < gregorian> qyx:kua konečne slovák :D
2019-11-20T00:23:53 < gregorian> qyx:čo aj niečo tvoríš ohľadom sTM32 procákov ?
2019-11-20T00:24:45 < qyx> please write in english in the public chan or query me :)
2019-11-20T00:24:53 < qyx> nobody would understand
2019-11-20T00:26:03 < gregorian> qyx: ok you have it, :D do you make some thing in stm32 for example discovery board ?
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2019-11-20T00:48:30 < Cracki> is that anything worth putting into a translator
2019-11-20T00:49:46 < qyx> you may try kua
2019-11-20T00:50:02 < Cracki> >STM32 procats
2019-11-20T00:50:04 < kakipr0> how to enable AA in newpcb?
2019-11-20T00:50:11 < Cracki> google doens't know kua, neither does wiktionary
2019-11-20T00:50:19 < Cracki> kek AA
2019-11-20T00:52:05 < qyx> interesting to know, it is a simplified bit*h
2019-11-20T00:52:19 < gregorian> Cracki: i write to qyx user private message sorry im studuing how using irc channels 
2019-11-20T00:53:00 < Cracki> how did google arrive at "procats"
2019-11-20T00:53:40 < gregorian> Cracki: procák is processor meanning
2019-11-20T00:53:49 < Cracki> where is the cat
2019-11-20T00:53:54 < qyx> in the core
2019-11-20T00:54:33 < Steffanx> Čăť
2019-11-20T00:55:02 < Cracki> apropos core, raspi 4, videocore 6, people tried playing yt videos with it, it sucked, but vlc did perfectly. are open sores browsers incapable of using video acceleration?
2019-11-20T00:56:13 < qyx> my yt plays perfectly in ff 70
2019-11-20T00:56:15 < Cracki> I decided against orangepi3 because of supposedly awful software/drivers/OS support. raspi4 sounds like less of a headache for some usb3-to-gigE data shoveling
2019-11-20T00:56:36 < Cracki> two usb3 ports only but that's likely good enough
2019-11-20T00:57:09 < Cracki> cat here https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JUwbpDXeAJA
2019-11-20T00:57:19 < Cracki> cat has leather fetish
2019-11-20T00:57:46 < Cracki> cat wears harness
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2019-11-20T01:49:38 < Cracki> don't drink too much beer https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=18wNiLgEz_w
2019-11-20T01:58:04 < jadew> I didn't get bored of this yet: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JR49dyo-y0E
2019-11-20T01:59:07 < jadew> very fresh
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2019-11-20T02:59:41 < Laurenceb> https://hardware.slashdot.org/story/19/11/19/1856245/secretive-energy-startup-backed-by-bill-gates-achieves-solar-breakthrough
2019-11-20T02:59:50 < Laurenceb> >artificial intelligence 
2019-11-20T03:00:42 <@englishman> are you referring to yourself
2019-11-20T03:01:54 < Laurenceb> kek
2019-11-20T03:07:46 < jadew> I think ultrasonic cleaning is lowering my yield
2019-11-20T03:08:01 < jadew> by ~60%
2019-11-20T03:08:17 < jadew> and it's always one IC that gets damaged
2019-11-20T03:08:40 < jadew> I replace that and it starts working (and I always pick the replacement IC from the same batch)
2019-11-20T03:10:19 < Cracki> how does it go bad, kills solder joints?
2019-11-20T03:10:36 < jadew> I think it messes it up on the inside
2019-11-20T03:10:43 < jadew> it lowers the frequency response of the IC
2019-11-20T03:10:54 < Cracki> all I know about ultrasonic cleaning is that the apple repair guy says not to bathe it too long or it causes trouble
2019-11-20T03:11:01 < Cracki> hmmmm
2019-11-20T03:11:25 < jadew> yeah, maybe I should try shorter baths then...
2019-11-20T03:11:27 < Cracki> so clean, then place that one IC, then qtip around it?
2019-11-20T03:11:49 < jadew> yeah, but I'll keep that as a last resort
2019-11-20T03:12:00 < Cracki> "advanced manufacturing processes to ensure components stay healthy!"
2019-11-20T03:12:12 < jadew> heh
2019-11-20T03:12:54 < Cracki> do an experiment, bathe for various times, check response and cleanliness
2019-11-20T03:13:35 < jadew> Cracki, problem is some of them do work fine
2019-11-20T03:14:04 < jadew> I made 3 boards at the same time and only one worked
2019-11-20T03:14:07 < jadew> but it worked
2019-11-20T03:14:24 < jadew> I did an 8 minute ultrasonic cycle
2019-11-20T03:14:35 < jadew> I should try 5, but I'm afraid it won't clean them as well
2019-11-20T03:15:19 < jadew> these sort of issues make life interesting
2019-11-20T03:16:16 < jadew> a couple of months ago I destroyed a bunch of expensive ICs because they weren't surviving my 350 °C setting on the heat gun
2019-11-20T03:16:32 < jadew> I ended up giving up on them and going with a different one
2019-11-20T03:16:54 < jadew> figured that if I can't prototype with them, then I can't use them, no matter how good the specs were
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2019-11-20T03:20:36 < qyx> which one?
2019-11-20T03:21:06 < qyx> 02:16 < jadew> a couple of months ago I destroyed a bunch of expensive ICs because they weren't surviving my 350 °C setting on the heat gun
2019-11-20T03:22:45 < jadew> qyx, some mixers on ceramic substrate
2019-11-20T03:23:02 < jadew> they were difficult to work with all around
2019-11-20T03:23:47 < jadew> the pins were made out of deposited Ag IIRC, and they rarely survived removal
2019-11-20T03:24:38 < jadew> so it was difficult to say... remove one, test with another one and then put the original one back
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2019-11-20T03:26:29 < qyx> rad-hard aerospace super mixers for 200GHz
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2019-11-20T03:27:32 < qyx> jadew: hows your company going?
2019-11-20T03:27:41 < qyx> selling enough to keep yourself alive?
2019-11-20T03:28:06 < jadew> qyx, no
2019-11-20T03:28:11 < qyx> meh
2019-11-20T03:28:26 < qyx> no customers?
2019-11-20T03:28:41 < jadew> but I'm selling enough to pay for the company bills (accountant, rent, utilities)
2019-11-20T03:28:46 < qyx> or too much niche?
2019-11-20T03:28:57 < jadew> very few, yeah... the niche is too small
2019-11-20T03:29:38 < qyx> you should enrich your devices with lora
2019-11-20T03:29:41 < qyx> add some iot buzzwords
2019-11-20T03:29:55 < jadew> I've basically taken over the entire niche, but there are so few customers that I'm having doubts on weather I should continue working on other products in the same line or go in a different direction
2019-11-20T03:30:01 < jadew> qyx, heh
2019-11-20T03:30:27 < qyx> are your products some high-end radio measurement devices?
2019-11-20T03:30:53 < jadew> wouldn't call them high-end, but they're for radio measurements, yeah
2019-11-20T03:31:21 < qyx> and selling also outside of .ro?
2019-11-20T03:31:36 < jadew> haven't sold anything inside .ro yet
2019-11-20T03:32:28 < qyx> heh
2019-11-20T03:32:38 < jadew> I did sell to one romanian tho
2019-11-20T03:32:49 < jadew> he was the only customer with a complaint hehe
2019-11-20T03:33:56 < jadew> he was upset he wasn't measuring the specified numbers, but in reality he was experiencing cable/connector loss
2019-11-20T03:34:57 < jadew> some from the included connector that he selected (its loss was documented on the product page and in the datasheet tho)
2019-11-20T03:35:09 < jadew> and the biggest part from his own setup
2019-11-20T03:35:34 < Cracki> I'm running ADSL over soggy bootstraps, why is my youtube so bad?
2019-11-20T03:38:00 < Cracki> just switched the lab psu off. computer screen reset itself...
2019-11-20T03:38:38 < jadew> not enough metal
2019-11-20T03:42:44 < jadew> I wish I could decap these ICs with acid to see what's going on
2019-11-20T03:59:50 < Cracki> know anyone who is set up for that?
2019-11-20T04:00:54 < Cracki> maybe send the IC's mfg a mail asking for their take
2019-11-20T04:01:24 < Cracki> maybe they forgot to put a "don't ultrasonic it" in the datasheet
2019-11-20T04:02:56 < jadew> Cracki, heh
2019-11-20T04:03:03 < jadew> unfortunately I don't
2019-11-20T04:03:18 < jadew> in fact, I don't anyone IRL who does electronics like I do
2019-11-20T04:04:22 < jadew> I know one or two who tinker with electronics from time to time, but it's arduino level stuff
2019-11-20T04:05:08 < Cracki> uh, brand promotion... maybe some short little fluff pieces with a little technical meat and a little tooting your horn on those electronics blogs/sites like hackaday
2019-11-20T04:05:23 < Cracki> you need international connections
2019-11-20T04:05:50 < jadew> I know the people here :)
2019-11-20T04:05:59 < Cracki> or set up a chem workbench to do your own decapping... and offer that as contract work
2019-11-20T04:06:19 < jadew> I'm not fond of chemicals that can burn your face off
2019-11-20T04:06:48 < Cracki> there's got to be some people near you who would love to burn their faces off
2019-11-20T04:07:07 < Cracki> uh how about xraying the buggers
2019-11-20T04:07:10 < jadew> I might actually be able to find someone who can do it
2019-11-20T04:07:29 < Cracki> get them hooked, they might enjoy the challenge and make a business out of it
2019-11-20T04:07:57 < jadew> thought about buying one of those dental x-raying machines
2019-11-20T04:08:01 < jadew> the tiny ones
2019-11-20T04:08:33 < jadew> but I'm not sure I really need them
2019-11-20T04:08:50 < jadew> in the end, I don't even need to know what's going on with this IC, it's just curiosity at this point
2019-11-20T04:09:22 < jadew> I already know something goes wrong with it if I clean it
2019-11-20T04:10:42 < Cracki> you could ask a dentist to make you some pictures
2019-11-20T04:10:56 < jadew> those, I know quite a few
2019-11-20T04:11:08 < jadew> like... close friends
2019-11-20T04:11:12 < Cracki> ;)
2019-11-20T04:11:29 < jadew> I could do that
2019-11-20T04:11:38 < jadew> thanks for the suggestion
2019-11-20T04:14:59 < Cracki> "XTALs are generally sensitive for ultrasonic cleaning" https://electronics.stackexchange.com/questions/196373/components-to-avoid-using-on-an-ultrasonic-cleaner
2019-11-20T04:15:33 < Cracki> the generic quartzes for mcu clock might be designed to tolerate it
2019-11-20T04:16:33 < Cracki> so your intuition gave you the answer already
2019-11-20T04:18:12 < Cracki> someone says brushie brushie
2019-11-20T04:18:21 < jadew> heh
2019-11-20T04:23:27 < jadew> ebay fucking sucks
2019-11-20T04:24:08 < jadew> I want to change the qty available and when I clicked submit they made me pay the outstanding balance - they charge that automatically at the end of the month anyway
2019-11-20T04:24:25 < jadew> then, after I paid, I tried to do it again and got signed out
2019-11-20T04:24:48 < jadew> then I tried to do it again and they locked me out of the account, saying I have to verify who I am
2019-11-20T04:25:35 < jadew> they didn't care about that when they required the payment
2019-11-20T04:29:15 < Cracki> they got what they wanted ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
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2019-11-20T09:43:21 < rue_bed> yea, I gave up on ebay
2019-11-20T09:43:44 < rue_bed> if there is a problem with their system, there is no way to report it, 
2019-11-20T09:43:59 < rue_bed> in ebays little mind, the only problems are with buyers and sellers
2019-11-20T09:45:03 < rue_bed> I threw in the towel when I bought something, they took my money, did not tell the seller I'd bought it, then after having to phone in, they said to make paypal deal with it
2019-11-20T09:45:12 < rue_bed> W T F
2019-11-20T09:45:28 < rue_bed> never had an issue with aliexpress
2019-11-20T09:45:35 < rue_bed> as far as the system
2019-11-20T09:45:48 < rue_bed> some things dont arrive, and I get a refund, all good
2019-11-20T09:46:18 < rue_bed> ebay also had items dissapearing from my purchase lists
2019-11-20T09:46:34 < rue_bed> so I had to track everything with the confirmation emails
2019-11-20T09:46:48 < rue_bed> that sucked
2019-11-20T09:48:18 < rue_bed> so, I want to check on instruction clock cycle counts sometime
2019-11-20T09:48:41 < rue_bed> I'm starting to wonder, at 72Mhz, if the stm32 is much faster than a 16Mhz avr
2019-11-20T09:49:04 < rue_bed> I'm getting the impression its only about 150-200%
2019-11-20T09:49:15 < jpa-> it is, most instructions are single-cycle http://infocenter.arm.com/help/index.jsp?topic=/com.arm.doc.ddi0337h/CHDDIGAC.html
2019-11-20T09:49:57 < rue_bed> ok, I wonder why I'm not noticing it
2019-11-20T09:50:21 < rue_bed> do you use any of the optimization flags typicall?
2019-11-20T09:50:47 < jpa-> for 32-bit stuff, stm32 also typically takes about 6 times less instruction cycles than AVR, so it is also faster at same clock speed (see e.g. https://github.com/PetteriAimonen/libfixmath/wiki/Benchmarks)
2019-11-20T09:51:20 < jpa-> sure, -O1 or -Os or -Og pretty much always, and -O2 when i need the speed
2019-11-20T09:51:30 < rue_bed> k, I know the software i2c library I use came out to lots more instructions than it does on avr
2019-11-20T09:51:47 < rue_bed> but I didn't try to tweak it
2019-11-20T09:52:10 < jpa-> yeah, being bitbang (1 or 2 bits at a time) it won't benefit much from 32-bitness
2019-11-20T09:52:29 < jpa-> also if it is portable, it probably doesn't know to use BSRR and BRR registers for faster access
2019-11-20T09:52:53 < rue_bed> not I abstracted setbit and clearbit
2019-11-20T09:53:10 < rue_bed> so thats specific
2019-11-20T09:54:02 < rue_bed> jpa, I might have asked before, I chose opencm3, what are most people using?
2019-11-20T09:55:29 < jpa-> "most" is irrelevant
2019-11-20T09:55:45 < jpa-> use what works for you
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2019-11-20T10:50:51 < zyp> jpa-, huh, I always just use -O2
2019-11-20T10:51:09 < zyp> I usually don't _need_ the speed, but I see no reason not to use it
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2019-11-20T10:53:42 < jadew> zyp, did you get the referral fee yet?
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2019-11-20T10:56:53 < jpa-> zyp: yeah, for me it appears to distrupt debugging a bit too often
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2019-11-20T11:08:20 < zyp> jadew, I think I have to refer three before I can get anything
2019-11-20T11:08:32 < jadew> ah, tricky bastards
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2019-11-20T11:13:27 < zyp> jpa-, I'd still use -O2 normally and switch to -Og when it's a problem
2019-11-20T11:13:56 < zyp> in theory :)
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2019-11-20T11:14:30 < zyp> in practice, I don't singlestep debug often enough I've had to do that yet, IIRC
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2019-11-20T11:25:31 < jpa-> zyp: yeah, i've usually found that difference in speed is negligible - and most often i use -Os anyway
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2019-11-20T11:39:06 < karlp> qyx: what's the idea with the resistor plus zener for your voltage sensing?
2019-11-20T11:39:51 < qyx> I need to know if there is any voltage or not
2019-11-20T11:40:05 < qyx> if the fuse blows, there will be nothing
2019-11-20T11:41:11 < qyx> eg. I don't really need to know the voltage under reverse voltage error condition, it is sufficient to know there is some reverse voltage
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2019-11-20T11:49:28 < karlp> so you're measuing either 3V (from the zener) or nothing?
2019-11-20T11:49:44 < karlp> if there's no voltage, what pulls it down?
2019-11-20T11:51:06 < qyx> digital input with internal pulldown
2019-11-20T11:51:31 < karlp> right ok. 
2019-11-20T11:51:37  * karlp files away as a note.
2019-11-20T11:51:38 < qyx> no gud?
2019-11-20T11:52:36 < qyx> heh
2019-11-20T11:53:56 < karlp> how much power are you expecting? is that the only thing wrong with just using a diode for RP protection?
2019-11-20T11:58:47 < qyx> diode would need cooling, 4A
2019-11-20T12:00:25 < karlp> yarh ok :)
2019-11-20T12:00:43 < karlp> I've been so spoilt by doing everythign under ~50mA
2019-11-20T12:03:08 < karlp> how important is your ground level? canyou just do nfet on return path?
2019-11-20T12:03:54 < qyx> I tried to think about it a bit, idk
2019-11-20T12:04:18 < qyx> I may as well use the LM5060 thing
2019-11-20T12:04:42 < qyx> with OVP, UVLO and RP with a n-mos
2019-11-20T12:04:54 < karlp> https://www.electronicdesign.com/power/reverse-polarity-protection-automotive-design says only problemw ith nfet in return path is ohter circuit portions using local ground, (because automotive)
2019-11-20T12:05:28 < karlp> this one is the best though, actual coils and leds! https://www.edn.com/design/analog/4368527/Simple-reverse-polarity-protection-circuit-has-no-voltage-drop
2019-11-20T12:10:06 < dongs> lool
2019-11-20T12:10:09 < dongs> whatr the hehll
2019-11-20T12:10:13 < dongs> a relay and led?
2019-11-20T12:11:35 < dongs> the automotive bit is just shilling a TI part isnt it
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2019-11-20T13:05:43 <@englishman> qyx: there's some part I use that does RP, ov and uv in one part with a dual nfet
2019-11-20T13:05:57 <@englishman> to like +-60v
2019-11-20T13:06:00 < qyx> which one
2019-11-20T13:06:27 <@englishman> I'll have to check later :)
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2019-11-20T14:34:42 < qyx> and now.. https://i.imgur.com/95VSPD1.png
2019-11-20T14:36:09 < jadew> PCI board?
2019-11-20T14:36:48 < jadew> or just PCI connector?
2019-11-20T14:37:06 < qyx> only a pcie connector
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2019-11-20T15:00:06 < dongs> qyx, nice
2019-11-20T15:01:03 < dongs> are you making an arduino blade server
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2019-11-20T15:01:54 < dongs> wahts with that disgusting colorscheme tho
2019-11-20T15:02:11 < Steffanx> It's what makes you get anal cancer
2019-11-20T15:02:18 < dongs> thats what I thought
2019-11-20T15:03:07 < Steffanx> Such bad semi-inside joke.
2019-11-20T15:03:19 < dongs> haha
2019-11-20T15:03:25 < dongs> thats cuz qyx isnt on the inside
2019-11-20T15:15:45 < con3> didnt know motorola still existed
2019-11-20T15:15:45 < qyx> not a bad idea actually
2019-11-20T15:16:17 < dongs> what is?
2019-11-20T15:16:29 < qyx> ardweeno blade server
2019-11-20T15:16:33 < dongs> right...
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2019-11-20T15:26:24 < dongs> so my pal spent until like 3am last night
2019-11-20T15:26:26 < dongs> and half a day tomrorwo
2019-11-20T15:26:31 < dongs> trying to access this SPI device
2019-11-20T15:26:33 < dongs> 1 out of 5
2019-11-20T15:26:39 < dongs> turns out, that chip was dead
2019-11-20T15:27:01 < dongs> err half a day today, not tomrorow
2019-11-20T15:30:26 < day> the joy of having multiple devices for testing purposes
2019-11-20T15:35:34 < qyx> it would save a day
2019-11-20T15:38:58 < doomba> rofl arduino blade server
2019-11-20T15:39:50 < doomba> Welcome to AVR Web Services! Pay as you go to run aidsfruit sketches. Now introducing Arduino IDE cloud functions!
2019-11-20T15:40:19 < dongs> would not be surprised if next major retarduino IDE would just build shit in the cloud
2019-11-20T15:40:24 < dongs> why downlkoad 300megs of retarded compilers
2019-11-20T15:40:32 < dongs> i think a bunch of shit already does this anway
2019-11-20T15:40:38 < dongs> like mbed and platformio or whatever the fuck
2019-11-20T15:40:39 < doomba> Need a database? Use our new SPIFFS as a Service to store data from your IoT!
2019-11-20T15:41:30 < qyx> spiffs on an emulated nor flash inside a cloud?
2019-11-20T15:41:39 < qyx> I see a potential
2019-11-20T15:41:39 < doomba> and then inside another cloud
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2019-11-20T15:42:02 < doomba> you need at least two nested clouds so you can compete with amazon
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2019-11-20T16:35:40 < zoobab> retarduino :-)
2019-11-20T16:35:47 < kakinull> yes
2019-11-20T16:36:16 < zoobab> newbiesduino
2019-11-20T16:36:28 < zoobab> blink a led and stop there...
2019-11-20T16:37:00 < zoobab> when I was playing with arduino-cli, the compile phassed required 1GB of RAM to compile a blink
2019-11-20T16:37:13 < zoobab> I hit some limits on the VM I provisioned
2019-11-20T16:38:10 < kakinull> I mean
2019-11-20T16:38:42 < kakinull> with eclipse based tools I rarelly hit anything noticeable with memory use figures
2019-11-20T16:39:01 < zoobab> Eclipse is far from not being a memory bloat
2019-11-20T16:39:20 < zoobab> I had vim+makefiles for a long time
2019-11-20T16:39:29 < kakinull> still it's like half a gig
2019-11-20T16:39:33 < zoobab> but arduino is easy for noobs
2019-11-20T16:39:40 < zoobab> and
2019-11-20T16:39:54 < zoobab> GCC still does not come with all arches
2019-11-20T16:39:54 < kakinull> and compiling.. is it even noticeable in total memory use
2019-11-20T16:40:05 < zoobab> llvm had at least an -arch=armv7 switch
2019-11-20T16:40:42 < zoobab> we should be at the stage where you just pass -arch=xtensa32 with any GCC 
2019-11-20T16:40:52 < zoobab> but no
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2019-11-20T16:41:11 < zoobab> and I am not talking about the packaging of toolchains in all the distros
2019-11-20T16:41:14 < zoobab> a nightmare
2019-11-20T16:41:46 < jpa-> zoobab: but remember that it is not just the compiler, it needs the libraries etc. also; does llvm come with newlib, libm etc. for every arch pre-installed?
2019-11-20T16:42:37 < zoobab> yeah there is binutils and all that
2019-11-20T16:43:46 < kakinull> there are houses in sicily for 1euro.. I wonder if I should buy winter house
2019-11-20T16:44:04 < jpa-> binutils is mostly portable, but e.g. the libs for just arm is 100+MB
2019-11-20T17:04:00 <@englishman> aandrew: works thanks!
2019-11-20T17:04:07 <@englishman> I did add the counter increment tho
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2019-11-20T17:40:38 < bitmask> heyo
2019-11-20T17:41:10 < emeb> oyeh
2019-11-20T17:41:39 < bitmask> yay, they started my boards, being drilled right now
2019-11-20T17:42:12 < bitmask> oh nice, other board is already at silkscreening
2019-11-20T17:48:01 < bitmask> why would anyone choose yellow solder mask
2019-11-20T17:48:59 < aandrew> englishman: awesome
2019-11-20T17:50:41 < Ultrasauce> today's musicspam https://hollowpointone.bandcamp.com/album/construct
2019-11-20T18:02:09  * karlp is really getting to like this frequency of earspam
2019-11-20T18:02:50 < Ultrasauce> do you mean the daily links or the sub bass?
2019-11-20T18:03:12 < karlp> I meant the daily nature, I was only just opening the link itself .)
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2019-11-20T20:52:19 < ijash> hi
2019-11-20T21:07:19 < ijash> I'm new in stm32 bluepill. what's the significance of labeling PA PB PC? how's that makes functionally different?
2019-11-20T21:07:43 < jpa-> they're just names
2019-11-20T21:12:12 < ijash> jpa-: i can't use PB pins (PB3,4,5,6) for basic led blink. but PA pins can? i thought it has something to do with the naming
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2019-11-20T21:13:15 < PaulFertser> ijash: you better read the family reference manual and the device datasheet
2019-11-20T21:14:12 < jpa-> ijash: you can blink leds on any pin, if it doesn't work you just have some bug in your code
2019-11-20T21:14:24 < jpa-> (like not configuring the pins or enabling the RCC clock for the port)
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2019-11-20T21:15:37 < ijash> PaulFertser: can you help point to the datasheet and in which page?
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2019-11-20T21:17:39 < ijash> jpa-: i use arduino IDE and i define it PB3 (which translates to integer)
2019-11-20T21:18:03 < PaulFertser> ijash: is the st.com down?
2019-11-20T21:18:30 < jpa-> arduino IDE might have its own restrictions on the use of the pins, IIRC it doesn't support using all 100+ pins on a typical STM32
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2019-11-20T21:21:49 < ijash> PaulFertser: no, but it's very kind of you if you share your knowledge.
2019-11-20T21:23:42 < ijash> jpa-: i see.. i will try again then. at least i know now that i can use every I/O pins. thank you very much! appreciate your answer
2019-11-20T21:23:54 < PaulFertser> ijash: I'd rather try to share the ways to get knowledge... and in this case it's not obvious what might be preventing you from finding the right docs on your own especially considering I already told you how they're named. 
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2019-11-20T21:32:07 < ijash> PaulFertser: i know it very well regarding your philosophy on sharing knowledge, like let the kid learn on it's own by just giving it some clues.. that's very good and interesting. But, in my case here, I am aware that i need much to learn, even i am having a difficulties reading the datasheets, there's so many terms that i not yet understand. so here i am, looking for an answer by chatting.
2019-11-20T21:33:43 < ijash> PaulFertser: I hope you understand
2019-11-20T21:34:11 < PaulFertser> ijash: I do. So I'd expect you to read the documents and ask specific questions about what's not clear about them.
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2019-11-20T21:37:42 < ijash> PaulFertser: I will, be back some time later if i don't understand something. And thank you for your hospitality
2019-11-20T21:38:12 < PaulFertser> ijash: please do not expect much hospitality on this channel, it's full of high-profile trolls.
2019-11-20T21:38:31 < PaulFertser> ijash: and experts
2019-11-20T21:38:55 < Steffanx> lol, such troll PaulFertser :P
2019-11-20T21:39:29 < PaulFertser> I'm just a humble padavan, Steffanx.
2019-11-20T21:41:15 < ijash> PaulFertser: ok
2019-11-20T21:41:30 < ijash> PaulFertser: as you wish
2019-11-20T21:42:00 < PaulFertser> Just giving you a fair warning ijash . If you lurk here for long enough you'll see for yourself.
2019-11-20T21:42:30 < Steffanx> PaulFertser:  to be honest, its not as bad as before
2019-11-20T21:42:47 < PaulFertser> Steffanx: are you thinking about Jan's handholding?
2019-11-20T21:43:06 < Steffanx> She just wouldnt listen.
2019-11-20T21:43:39 < PaulFertser> But I was really surprised with the level of support she got here. Almost no hatred too. Amazing for this channel.
2019-11-20T21:44:18 < Steffanx> Yeah, we're cool you know.
2019-11-20T21:44:40 < PaulFertser> But was it worth it?..
2019-11-20T21:44:51 < Steffanx> idk. She still left us i see
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2019-11-20T21:47:49 < PaulFertser> 03:16 < Jan-> I ordered ESP32
2019-11-20T21:47:53 < PaulFertser> 03:16 < Jan-> on the basis it actually has API documentation
2019-11-20T21:48:11 < PaulFertser> Good luck Jan-
2019-11-20T21:48:20 < Steffanx> awh
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2019-11-20T22:10:56 < steve> I just started using xmonad and arduino IDE doesn't work.  It worked in i3.   :(((
2019-11-20T22:13:40 < PaulFertser> steve: probably it needs the same silliness as some java apps?
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2019-11-20T22:14:28 < PaulFertser> steve: what's good about arduino IDE anyway? How is it any better than e.g. QtCreator?
2019-11-20T22:21:48 < steve> PaulFertser ah k, there was some vague hint on google results about java being the problem.  and I just like the arduino GUI tools for selecting which /dev/tty* and stuff, especially with multiple arduinos connected.  for one off prototypes i want "convenience over everything else"
2019-11-20T22:28:56 < PaulFertser> steve: so have you seen https://wiki.haskell.org/Xmonad/Frequently_asked_questions#Problems_with_Java_applications.2C_Applet_java_console yet?
2019-11-20T22:33:21 < steve> PaulFertser no I went straight to complaining after the first page of google results didn't have the answer.  But thanks for the link!
2019-11-20T22:37:27 < Steffanx> Awesome internet points to you steve.
2019-11-20T22:37:40 < Steffanx> You did a search first, then you complained.
2019-11-20T22:37:56 < Steffanx> Seems to happen less and less.
2019-11-20T22:38:36 < steve> thanks brah
2019-11-20T22:38:59 < qyx> PaulFertser: oh jan went to esp32? poor choice
2019-11-20T22:40:02 < PaulFertser> As if you expected her to make any good choice.
2019-11-20T22:42:15 < qyx> she was a bit verbose and not listening, but otherwise not very harmful
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2019-11-20T22:43:38 < Steffanx> True that.
2019-11-20T22:48:21  * karlp has an esp32 board coming too, maybe I'll depart.....
2019-11-20T22:48:53 < qyx> https://i.imgur.com/q6DHnsu.png
2019-11-20T22:49:19 < qyx> is it just me or it is not possible to tell how far from the front panel are the mounting holes
2019-11-20T22:51:08 < qyx> also idk where should be the leds
2019-11-20T22:53:12 < karlp> are those light pipes?
2019-11-20T22:53:43 < qyx> yeah
2019-11-20T22:54:07 < karlp> is that it?!
2019-11-20T22:54:14 < karlp> I can't see how you know where to put anything from that
2019-11-20T22:55:02 < qyx> thats the problem
2019-11-20T22:55:02 < aandrew> yeah that is a weird drawing
2019-11-20T22:55:55 < aandrew> you can see the output holes are 0.100" from each other and 1.5mm dia, and the farthest is 10.74mm from the board surface, but not how far they stick out of the panel
2019-11-20T23:03:35 < karlp> well, the "back" led goes right up to the flush edge right? 
2019-11-20T23:04:12 < karlp> and they're 2.54mm apart, and pipes are 1.6mm?
2019-11-20T23:05:43 < karlp> so from back (-14.8) you get pipe (1.6) mounting peg (1.4) pipe (1.6) the "other" mounting peg (???) pipe (1.6) peg(1.4) last pipe (1.6) anything left then is the last bit of distance to the horns on the front?
2019-11-20T23:05:53 < karlp> fucking, why amn I looking at this!
2019-11-20T23:13:10 < PaulFertser> Just take measurements from the pic and scale :)
2019-11-20T23:33:47 < steve> wow neat, first time using select().  never had a use for it before.  I needed a blocking read of N /dev/* files.  python select.select() is cool
2019-11-20T23:34:19 < PaulFertser> steve: so did the suggestion from the xmonad faq help?
2019-11-20T23:35:29 < steve> i'll get to that later haha, I just did my arduino stuff on a different machine, "uploaded the sketch" and now I don't need arduino IDE until next time I need it
2019-11-20T23:37:35 < qyx> karlp: dont look!
2019-11-20T23:43:01 -!- con3 [~kvirc@154.119.40.183] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds]
2019-11-20T23:52:10 < qyx> ok Ill just put a single 3mm rgb led there
2019-11-20T23:55:09 < aandrew> steve: poll/select is fucking awesome
2019-11-20T23:55:59 < aandrew> I wrote a utility that would read from a variable number of devices/files, each providing an async stream of data that I'd parse and build into a different format and make available on stdout or network sockets
2019-11-20T23:56:11 < aandrew> it'd be impossible to do that realistically without poll()
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2019-11-20T23:59:54 < PaulFertser> aandrew: or multiple threads :)
--- Day changed Thu Nov 21 2019
2019-11-21T00:00:24 < steve> aandrew neat.  link to github?
2019-11-21T00:01:45 < steve> PaulFertser i would think there is a sync issue if 2 threads are each reading a file and then try to write to the same file?
2019-11-21T00:02:54 < aandrew> steve: it's not oss, it's for a client
2019-11-21T00:03:01 < aandrew> steve: yep
2019-11-21T00:03:08 < aandrew> there's a great quote
2019-11-21T00:03:11 < PaulFertser> steve: to same file yes, but you can add synchronisation between threads. Or pass data around and let a dedicated thread write it.
2019-11-21T00:04:00 < aandrew> "If you have a problem and use threads to solve it, th yeno uheav wtoo bprmsl.e.
2019-11-21T00:04:11 < PaulFertser> :)))
2019-11-21T00:05:34 < aandrew> oh by the way, that cheap "jlink" I bought for $10 a week or so ago is truly shit. Expected, so not surprised. :-)
2019-11-21T00:05:38 < PaulFertser> BTW, steve, C++20 basically integrated Boost::ASIO, so no need for manually using poll/select() now.
2019-11-21T00:05:57 < PaulFertser> aandrew: interesting, can you elaborate on that please?
2019-11-21T00:05:58 < qyx> I heard the one saying threads are gotos of the modern software development
2019-11-21T00:06:39 < aandrew> PaulFertser: oh it's just some piece of shit off amazon
2019-11-21T00:06:41 < aandrew> let me find the link
2019-11-21T00:07:05 < PaulFertser> aandrew: I mean what exactly makes it shitty?
2019-11-21T00:07:12 < aandrew> https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B077VFQR7X
2019-11-21T00:07:24 < PaulFertser> Amazon freely sells fake jlinks?
2019-11-21T00:07:35 < steve> "the problem with threads" , was a good read, i forgot what's in it though haha.  something about how we need data parallel hardware
2019-11-21T00:07:41 < aandrew> oh, well the official jlink software doesn't like it ("Your J-Link is malfunctioning! Please contact us for help")
2019-11-21T00:08:18 < aandrew> and even with openocd and jaylink it just does not work very well (lots of failures trying to read the DAP, etc.)
2019-11-21T00:08:44 < aandrew> I did not expect it to work so it's not a loss, it was just for curiosity's sake
2019-11-21T00:08:48 < PaulFertser> aandrew: with a 3.3V target?
2019-11-21T00:08:49 < qyx> https://www.buydisplay.com/default/white-0-42-inch-oled-display-panel-72x40-iic-i2c-serial-spi-ssd1306
2019-11-21T00:08:57 < qyx> Ill use this instead of LEDs and light pipes
2019-11-21T00:08:57 < aandrew> PaulFertser: yes, 3.3V target
2019-11-21T00:09:14 < aandrew> qyx: I have a bunch of those
2019-11-21T00:09:22 < PaulFertser> aandrew: hm, what can make it fail that way really?
2019-11-21T00:09:26 < aandrew> just be mindful that the pins are *not* for sockets, they're hotbar only
2019-11-21T00:09:38 < aandrew> PaulFertser: not sure, I spent less than 3 minutes with it since I had other stuff to do
2019-11-21T00:09:41 < qyx> yeah I don't want pfc/ffc
2019-11-21T00:10:44 < aandrew> pretty crazy how you can buy displays for a buck and change
2019-11-21T00:11:42 < aandrew> I also bought a cheap bench power supply off amazon, I am going ot have to take it apart and put a few pounds of lead in it to make it *feel* like a bench power supply should :-)
2019-11-21T00:11:59 < qyx> are they serious it needs 3.5V min?
2019-11-21T00:12:32 < aandrew> qyx: hm?
2019-11-21T00:13:10 < qyx> Supply Voltage for DC/DC (Vbat) 3.5V-4.2V
2019-11-21T00:13:33 < qyx> or 7.5V supplied externally if the internal dc/dc is disabled
2019-11-21T00:14:31 < aandrew> qyx: they take 3.3 and have a boost reg if you add a couple caps
2019-11-21T00:14:56 < qyx> yes except not 3V3 but 3V5
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2019-11-21T00:15:13 < aandrew> I feed them 3.3
2019-11-21T00:15:36 < qyx> maybe i could do the same
2019-11-21T00:17:53 < qyx> or I should stop kakiing and use a single 3mm led
2019-11-21T00:22:45 < Steffanx> Yes
2019-11-21T00:22:55 < Steffanx> Where is kakipr0 
2019-11-21T00:23:09 < qyx> doing 35th sheet of his sch
2019-11-21T00:24:11 -!- veegee [~veegee@ipagstaticip-3d3f7614-22f3-5b69-be13-7ab4b2c585d9.sdsl.bell.ca] has quit [Quit: veegee]
2019-11-21T00:30:05 < h4x0riz3d> dees ees sam beeg sheet
2019-11-21T00:31:00 < bitmask> damn amazon...
2019-11-21T00:31:13 < Steffanx> Did they deliver the wrong pizza?
2019-11-21T00:31:28 < bitmask> they delivered shattered glass, ordered replacement, more shattered glass
2019-11-21T00:31:47 < bitmask> no bubble wrap or any kind of protection
2019-11-21T00:32:34 < h4x0riz3d> they're probably thinking "ooh, this glass sells so well"
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2019-11-21T00:46:22 < aandrew> h4x0riz3d: lol
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2019-11-21T01:26:54 < qyx> any recommendations for wifi&btle modules with usb?
2019-11-21T01:27:16 < aandrew> nrf52840
2019-11-21T01:27:39 < aandrew> that's BT/BLE/ANT not wifi though
2019-11-21T01:28:04 < qyx> I meant something ublox-style, precertified
2019-11-21T01:28:11 < qyx> without writing a single line of code
2019-11-21T01:28:29 < qyx> (compatible with lunices)
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2019-11-21T01:32:46 < qyx> on m.2 wifi/btle combo modules support BOTH pci-e and usb?
2019-11-21T01:32:51 < qyx> *oh
2019-11-21T01:33:16 < qyx> at least it seems so from the DS of Intel® Dual Band Wireless-AC 8265
2019-11-21T01:35:09 < karlp> threads suck. so just use processes.....? :)
2019-11-21T01:35:38 < qyx> uhm pcie is for wifi, usb for btle
2019-11-21T01:37:05 < karlp> yeah, you're talking AC wifi, that' sgoing to be pcie
2019-11-21T01:37:09 < karlp> that's serious fucking wifi though
2019-11-21T01:37:27 < karlp> ap6212 module is usb for wifi and uart (;) for bt?
2019-11-21T01:37:34 < karlp> there's variations of that too
2019-11-21T01:39:34 < qyx> tahts sdio
2019-11-21T01:39:45 < qyx> may as well use esp8266, no?
2019-11-21T01:44:48 < bitmask> I was worried, these batteries were reading 35-40 mOhm internal resistance, but I just cycled one and now its reading 4
2019-11-21T01:48:43 < karlp> ah, right yeah, sdio for wifi, uart for bt, sorry
2019-11-21T01:49:02 < karlp> you want to get wifi and btle on the same usb conn? let me know if yhou find one.
2019-11-21T01:49:13 < qyx> heh
2019-11-21T01:49:46 < karlp> also, holy fuck, ams1117 is 5mA Iq, and a whole volt of dropout.  must be fucking cheap
2019-11-21T01:50:21 < Ultrasauce> rings like a bell sometimes too
2019-11-21T02:00:29 < karlp> qyx: did you finalize a pinout for your pciex?
2019-11-21T02:00:46 < karlp> and yeah, esp32 over sdio.... should be feasible to hav ea linux driver and fw right?
2019-11-21T02:01:03 < karlp> shouldn't be any worse/harder than anything else should it? right?!
2019-11-21T02:04:04 < karlp> esp32 docs say that uarts can be on _any_ gpio pins, but all demo boards and shit hahve htem on explicit pins.
2019-11-21T02:04:23 < karlp> I feel like, "really, do I just need to read the docs, and I can do anything? or am I missing something?"
2019-11-21T02:05:07 < karlp> spi too.  here's me all routing shit carefully to try and matching things up, seems like it doesn't matter, just wire it all anyway you like and configure pinmux properly
2019-11-21T02:06:29 < karlp> loooks like only adc, dac, sdio, ethernet, touch sensing and jtag need to be on explicit pins
2019-11-21T02:13:25 < qyx> karlp: sort of
2019-11-21T02:14:07 < qyx> https://i.imgur.com/OQUCzfh.png
2019-11-21T02:14:31 < qyx> ethernet should be renamed
2019-11-21T02:14:58 < karlp> yeah, ok, none of your shit is useful/relevant :)
2019-11-21T02:15:00 < karlp> https://www.esp32.com/viewtopic.php?t=3569#p16495
2019-11-21T02:19:22 < karlp> https://imgur.com/a/F4T2b0S for mine
2019-11-21T02:20:48 < karlp> you've got only one contact for 5V, one for ground and that's it?
2019-11-21T02:21:07 < karlp> I do fee like I'm overblowing it with 6 grounds, 2 5v and 2 "raw" power
2019-11-21T02:21:13 < qyx> no, multiple
2019-11-21T02:21:37 < karlp> your sch just has a1 and b1?
2019-11-21T02:22:05 < qyx> https://i.imgur.com/tfRRiWP.png
2019-11-21T02:22:14 < karlp> what's with eth1 and eth2? are you doing rad single pair ether stuff or what?
2019-11-21T02:22:27 < qyx> I did it like kicad does on other symbols
2019-11-21T02:22:29 < qyx> only one is visible
2019-11-21T02:22:34 < qyx> others are hidden underneaath
2019-11-21T02:23:09 < karlp> what did you mark that up with in your table there?
2019-11-21T02:23:09 < qyx> eth is like.. firstly I was considering daisy-chaining 100Base-T1
2019-11-21T02:23:26 < karlp> TRX +(-?
2019-11-21T02:23:59 < qyx> it is a single pair TRX+/- full duplex
2019-11-21T02:24:09 < qyx> every board would containt a 3 port switch
2019-11-21T02:24:09 < qyx> but
2019-11-21T02:24:30 < qyx> for ~reasons~ I trashed that idea
2019-11-21T02:24:52 < qyx> if I wanted to use ethernet, the backplane would not be fully passive
2019-11-21T02:25:06 < qyx> it would contain a couple of ethernet switches
2019-11-21T02:25:31 < karlp> what sort of hw do you need for -T1?
2019-11-21T02:25:33 < qyx> so actually it is TX+/- and RX+/-
2019-11-21T02:25:38 < karlp> anything special or does it all "just work" ?
2019-11-21T02:25:46 < qyx> just a different phy
2019-11-21T02:25:51 < qyx> and thats the problem
2019-11-21T02:25:56 < qyx> not the phy itself
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2019-11-21T02:26:22 < qyx> but you are unable to make a multiport switch because multi-MII/RMII switches simply do not exist
2019-11-21T02:26:54 < qyx> there are some with eg. 2xRMII+1x 100Base-TX phy
2019-11-21T02:27:02 < qyx> but I would need at least 3x RMII
2019-11-21T02:27:22 < qyx> (1x for MCU/CPU and the other two for 100Base-T1 phys)
2019-11-21T02:28:11 < karlp> how did you pick -T1 at all?
2019-11-21T02:28:13 < qyx> the only reason for going with -T1 was lower power
2019-11-21T02:28:19 < qyx> cap coupling
2019-11-21T02:28:24 < qyx> full duplex over single pair
2019-11-21T02:28:45 < karlp> cap coupling instead of magnetics?
2019-11-21T02:28:49 < qyx> yeah
2019-11-21T02:28:56 < qyx> but you could to it with -TX as well
2019-11-21T02:28:57 < karlp> because it's an automotive "15m is plenty" thing?
2019-11-21T02:29:57 < qyx> theres no reason to waste space with magnetics with ~10cm ethernets sitting on the same ground potential
2019-11-21T02:31:07 < karlp> sure
2019-11-21T02:31:14 < karlp> same idea as HSIC
2019-11-21T02:40:30 < karlp> and yeah, for esp32, it really is "do what you want, pinout diagrams are for losers running on default settings"
2019-11-21T02:49:07 < qyx> full matrix?
2019-11-21T02:49:28 < qyx> such feature, Jan was right
2019-11-21T02:52:24 < qyx> https://i.imgur.com/hOhRAXd.png
2019-11-21T02:52:43 < qyx> it's going to be tight design
2019-11-21T03:00:35 < karlp> man, glad I'm not you. I just lose time whenever pcb is open
2019-11-21T03:01:07 < qyx> how so
2019-11-21T03:09:31 < jadew> I'm kinda curious if it will all fit
2019-11-21T03:12:04 < karlp> qyx: I'm just slow at it, and stare at it a lot.
2019-11-21T03:12:11 < karlp> don't make enough boards I guess.
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2019-11-21T03:40:44 < karlp> anyone used the china physs? like lan8720 is 54c on lcsc, but SR8201F is only 18c.
2019-11-21T03:41:04 < karlp> that's quite a difference from $1+ on digikeyh for ksz/lan parts.
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2019-11-21T04:20:08 < jadew> man.. I find it amazing that VLC can do live sharpness adjustment
2019-11-21T04:20:24 < jadew> and it's really good
2019-11-21T04:20:44 < aandrew> shit, I forgot what I was pinging you for, jadew 
2019-11-21T04:20:58 < jadew> you were? I didn't see it
2019-11-21T04:21:00 < aandrew> nope, can't remember
2019-11-21T04:21:02 < aandrew> it was a couple days ago
2019-11-21T04:21:11 < aandrew> I'm positive it had something to do with my D6 spectrum analyzer
2019-11-21T04:21:46 < jadew> it arrived? what it's like?
2019-11-21T04:22:14 < aandrew> not bad, not great, but not bad
2019-11-21T04:23:35 < aandrew> was playing around, tested a 433mhz antenna, measured loss in a cable, not really sure how much I can trust it of course
2019-11-21T04:25:18 < jadew> loss in a cable? what kind of resolution does it have?
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2019-11-21T04:26:22 < Laurenceb> https://i.gyazo.com/93a7ec56047fd30a9cf11bd0aedb29cb.gif
2019-11-21T04:26:30 < Laurenceb> https://forum.nasaspaceflight.com/assets/48895.0/1595283.jpg
2019-11-21T04:26:54 < jadew> it blew up?
2019-11-21T04:27:38 < jadew> looks like it sustained a lot of damage
2019-11-21T04:29:32 < Laurenceb> Musk on suicide watch
2019-11-21T04:30:13 < Laurenceb> https://forum.nasaspaceflight.com/assets/48895.0/1595303.jpg
2019-11-21T04:33:47 < Laurenceb> ah failed at 150% load aiui
2019-11-21T04:33:51 < Laurenceb> not so bad
2019-11-21T04:37:46 < Laurenceb> https://i.imgur.com/glFZ8lp.png
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2019-11-21T04:43:34 < Cracki> so they haven't locked you up yet?
2019-11-21T04:44:24 < Cracki> it was a test, it did something interesting, they'll learn :P
2019-11-21T04:45:02 < Cracki> >literally blew its top Wednesday during a pressurization test, blasting what appeared to be an upper bulkhead high into the air above the company's seaside Boca Chica, Texas, launch complex.
2019-11-21T04:45:22 < Laurenceb> I still expect to go to prison for a long tiem
2019-11-21T04:45:22 < Cracki> so not a real explosion
2019-11-21T04:46:01 < Laurenceb> ooh the shockwave trashed the bottom
2019-11-21T04:46:05 < Laurenceb> didnt spot that
2019-11-21T04:46:07 < Laurenceb> nasty
2019-11-21T04:46:08 < Cracki> video of the can blowing its top: https://www.cbsnews.com/news/spacex-starship-prototype-explodes-during-test-launch-boca-chica-texas-today-2019-11-20/
2019-11-21T04:46:39 < Laurenceb> that would blow sky night using real fuel
2019-11-21T04:46:39 < Cracki> it's literally tin foil, it crumbles
2019-11-21T04:46:45 < Laurenceb> not just ln2
2019-11-21T04:47:02 < Laurenceb> yeah and it suffers from propogating cracks
2019-11-21T04:47:10 < Laurenceb> maybe they could rivet it
2019-11-21T04:47:35 < Laurenceb> one weld defect and the whole thing is trashed atm
2019-11-21T04:47:38 < Cracki> they already have another more advanced prototype
2019-11-21T04:47:53 < Laurenceb> inb4 it blows up too
2019-11-21T04:48:23 < Laurenceb> wonder what fracture toughness looks like versus alu
2019-11-21T04:48:24 < Cracki> oh, 150% load, not bad
2019-11-21T04:48:38 < Laurenceb> yeah it was a full stress test
2019-11-21T04:48:56 < Cracki> I would expect them to exceed limits and see how much it can take
2019-11-21T04:49:16 < Cracki> just wondering if +50% is good, or if just +0.5x is bad
2019-11-21T04:49:44 < Ultrasauce> i would think the margins need to be higher since there are various sources of transients
2019-11-21T04:50:06 < Laurenceb> yeah it doesnt look good
2019-11-21T04:50:15 < Laurenceb> that would be unsurvivable 
2019-11-21T04:53:12 < Laurenceb> hmm no vast difference in fracture toughness between alu-lithium and 301 stainless
2019-11-21T04:56:23 < Laurenceb> ooh until you get a bad weld
2019-11-21T05:12:11 <@englishman> hi Laurenceb
2019-11-21T05:12:14 <@englishman> what were they doing
2019-11-21T05:12:34 < Laurenceb> filling it with LN2
2019-11-21T05:13:00 <@englishman> didn't their falcon blow up during filling too
2019-11-21T05:13:08 < Laurenceb> yeah
2019-11-21T05:13:42 <@englishman> oh well a new rocket only costs like $50k
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2019-11-21T05:24:41 < Laurenceb> https://imgur.com/a/70uB2aW
2019-11-21T05:25:25 <@englishman> >where did you hear that
2019-11-21T05:25:32 <@englishman> >a guy on Instagram
2019-11-21T05:26:12 < Laurenceb> keek
2019-11-21T05:26:22 < Laurenceb> now saying it was a destructive test
2019-11-21T05:26:30 < Laurenceb> Musk mind control spotted
2019-11-21T05:26:48 <@englishman> ty for the entertaining links tonight
2019-11-21T05:26:52 < Laurenceb>  "it was a destructive test"  "hyperloop is a good idea"
2019-11-21T05:27:32 <@englishman> 4am on irc on a Wednesday I guess babbyshake has come to an end? and you are now just another unemployed mortgage paying phd
2019-11-21T05:27:46 < Laurenceb> yup I got fired
2019-11-21T05:28:02 <@englishman> what reason did they tell you
2019-11-21T05:28:21 < Laurenceb> browsing 4chan at wurk
2019-11-21T05:28:23 -!- jsoft [~jsoft@unaffiliated/jsoft] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds]
2019-11-21T05:28:32 <@englishman> so they were honest
2019-11-21T05:28:35 < Laurenceb> keek
2019-11-21T05:29:36 < Cracki> why did they bother firing you such short a time before the regular end of contract
2019-11-21T05:30:13 < Laurenceb> ikr
2019-11-21T05:30:16 < Cracki> project is over. everyone is wasting their time browsing the net
2019-11-21T05:30:20 < Laurenceb> probably to troll me
2019-11-21T05:30:31 < Cracki> does firing mean severance package
2019-11-21T05:33:23 <@englishman> oh did Jan ragequit
2019-11-21T05:33:31 <@englishman> I noticed a reduction in handholding
2019-11-21T05:35:31 < sync> Ultrasauce: you want that shit to be light
2019-11-21T05:35:50 < sync> some components only have a safety factor of 1.05 in rockets
2019-11-21T05:36:45 <@englishman> safety through statistics indeed
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2019-11-21T05:52:02 < kakinull> lurence got fired in his last week at work
2019-11-21T05:52:04 < kakinull> ?
2019-11-21T05:53:10 -!- R2COM [~R2COM@ip24-251-252-131.ph.ph.cox.net] has joined ##stm32
2019-11-21T05:54:17 < Cracki> so he claims
2019-11-21T05:54:29 < Cracki> 4chan disclaimer applies
2019-11-21T05:54:53 < Cracki> >The stories and information posted here are artistic works of fiction and falsehood. Only a fool would take anything posted here
2019-11-21T05:55:03 < Cracki> and so on
2019-11-21T05:56:00 < kakinull> I wonder if we parti with lurence now
2019-11-21T05:56:03 <@englishman> communications errors between the pumps/sensors and remote controls allowed the tanks to be massively and erroneously overpressured to the point of failure, leading to catastrophic rupture.
2019-11-21T05:56:18 <@englishman> ^according to "some guy on instagram"
2019-11-21T05:56:27 < kakinull> what exploded englishman?
2019-11-21T05:56:38 <@englishman> the shiney new rocket
2019-11-21T05:58:08 < kakinull> ofc
2019-11-21T05:58:49 <@englishman> But the impact will likely be limited, with SpaceX also noting that a decision not to fly Mk1 had already been made prior to today’s test.
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2019-11-21T06:03:04 < kakinull> anything interesting in the metric north-america englishman?
2019-11-21T06:03:21 < kakinull> how is business?
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2019-11-21T06:04:07 <@englishman> good
2019-11-21T06:04:12 <@englishman> I need to learn fpga
2019-11-21T06:04:23 <@englishman> and I got a big budget to buy a new laser
2019-11-21T06:06:37 < kakinull> laser?
2019-11-21T06:06:54 < kakinull> in your works?
2019-11-21T06:07:07 <@englishman> yes
2019-11-21T06:07:24 <@englishman> Laurenceb: any chance next rocket is a single extruded piece
2019-11-21T06:07:31 < kakinull> what does that budget give you?
2019-11-21T06:07:55 < kakinull> if we talk parameters of such laser you need
2019-11-21T06:08:03 <@englishman> it gives me a cool ass laser and training and shit so I can write boring ass documentation so anyone with a pulse can use it
2019-11-21T06:08:39 < kakinull> your works do the controller?
2019-11-21T06:09:14 <@englishman> no it comes with a controller. we needed a specific laser
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2019-11-21T06:14:57 < kakinull> is it a product or development tool?
2019-11-21T06:15:39 < kakinull> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0PxIeHAbqA4
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2019-11-21T06:19:25 < kakinull> special fiber in those spools inside apparently is excited somehow
2019-11-21T06:20:12 < kakinull> yttrium fiber stuff
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2019-11-21T06:35:13 < Laurenceb> UCU has a long history of enabling members to self-identify whether that is being black, disabled, LGBT+ or women
2019-11-21T06:35:49 < Laurenceb> ED memes are real
2019-11-21T06:41:44 < kakinull> are you okay lurencer?
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2019-11-21T07:02:38 < Laurenceb> yeah
2019-11-21T07:02:43 < Laurenceb> wtf happened to google
2019-11-21T07:02:50 < Laurenceb> looks like duckduck on crack
2019-11-21T07:03:17 < Laurenceb> weird highlight thing and icons wtf
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2019-11-21T07:28:14 < Laurenceb> haha oh wow
2019-11-21T07:28:56 < Laurenceb> "communication errors resulted in the pump operators being given the wrong pressures for the working pressure level"
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2019-11-21T08:10:37 < jly> Is anybody on the internet
2019-11-21T08:15:27 < jly> Is laurenceb alright?
2019-11-21T08:15:29 < jly> do you know?
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2019-11-21T10:35:33 < Thorn> oops https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P98JcBQPiiI
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2019-11-21T10:52:14 < srk> front fell off
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2019-11-21T11:16:06 < jadew> anyone heard of KOA Speer?
2019-11-21T11:16:35 < karlp> yeah, makes resistors
2019-11-21T11:16:44 < jadew> reputable?
2019-11-21T11:16:45 < karlp> mouser brand maybe?
2019-11-21T11:16:55 < karlp> we're using them commercially, fwiw....
2019-11-21T11:16:57 < jadew> ah, you only saw them on mouser too?
2019-11-21T11:17:02 < karlp> I think we use them for HV parts?
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2019-11-21T11:17:06 < karlp> can't remember.
2019-11-21T11:17:09 < jadew> got it, thanks
2019-11-21T11:17:25 < karlp> nah, they're on digikey too
2019-11-21T11:17:32 < jadew> I want to buy some high power resistors (what qualifies as high power for tiny SMD parts)
2019-11-21T11:18:08 < jadew> was wondering if it's a good idea, I'll be using them at less than 50% the rated power
2019-11-21T11:18:48 < jadew> ah, nvm, the part I needed is not in stock
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2019-11-21T11:33:03 < dongs> what? no KOA is a huge brand
2019-11-21T11:33:07 < dongs> nothing to do with mouser
2019-11-21T11:33:39 < dongs> https://www.koaglobal.com/corporate/profile its some jap shit
2019-11-21T11:33:47 < dongs> established shortly after WWII
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2019-11-21T11:41:11 < jadew> dongs, that's good to know
2019-11-21T11:42:23 < dongs> judew why would you worry about source of a resistor you buy on mouser
2019-11-21T11:43:30 < jadew> dongs, don't know, never heard of them before
2019-11-21T11:56:51 < day> dongs: gotta make sure they dont use conflict minerals!
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2019-11-21T12:47:26 < mid-kid> Hi, I'm working with an STM32F070F6 and I'm trying to figure out how this bootloader stuff works.
2019-11-21T12:47:45 < mid-kid> Is this "System Memory" the manuals keep speaking of part of the user Flash, or is it completely separate?
2019-11-21T12:47:52 < mid-kid> Is it reprogrammable?
2019-11-21T12:48:29 < mid-kid> Or do you have to sacrifice part of your Flash to reprogram the thing?
2019-11-21T12:48:56 < mid-kid> I mean to make a custom bootloader.
2019-11-21T12:49:12 < mid-kid> If the "System Memory" is reprogrammable, where can I get the official bootloader firmwares?
2019-11-21T12:49:16 < karlp> custom bootloader takes up your own flash space
2019-11-21T12:49:33 < mid-kid> Aw
2019-11-21T12:52:48 < mid-kid> So this "System Memory" area is completely baked into the chip? Can you at least remap part of the flash memory to the "system area" so you can use the boot0 pin to toggle it?
2019-11-21T12:53:32 < karlp> why? you're running your own bootloader, youc an look at any pin you like. why limit yourself to just boot0?
2019-11-21T12:53:59 < mid-kid> Seemed convenient since I already have a jumper there.
2019-11-21T12:54:41 < mid-kid> But mostly it's curiosity.
2019-11-21T12:56:06 < mid-kid> Is there any STM32 on which you can reprogram or remap the system memory area? Or are they all like this?
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2019-11-21T13:14:13 < mid-kid> Apparently they really are completely baked in and irreplaceable.
2019-11-21T13:14:16 < mid-kid> Thanks for the answers.
2019-11-21T13:16:12 <@englishman> kakinull: cool video thanks
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2019-11-21T13:21:20 < karlp> mid-kid: it's a feature.
2019-11-21T13:23:48 <@englishman> they are in rom so you can't brick it
2019-11-21T13:24:36 < mid-kid> I reckon.
2019-11-21T13:25:27 < mid-kid> It's just that I'd like to use the DFU interface but I'm using a 32MHz crystal, and it's odd that it only works up to 24MHz :T
2019-11-21T13:27:01 < dongs> why the hell would you use 32mhz xtal
2019-11-21T13:27:18 < dongs> why do you even have a crystal on F070
2019-11-21T13:27:24 < dongs> it doesnt need one even for usb
2019-11-21T13:28:17 < karlp> 32khz crystal perhaps?
2019-11-21T13:28:50 < karlp> is there any reason this is 2 bjts and resistors instead of a dual fet package, other than, "this was even cheaper for us in particular" https://imgur.com/a/8RDWDCa
2019-11-21T13:29:12 < karlp> you'd have to pick a fet that would turn on properly at 3v3 of course, but other than that?
2019-11-21T13:29:28 < dongs> karlp: prolly cost and multisourcing
2019-11-21T13:29:37 < dongs> you could get single bjt from 1000 clonemakers
2019-11-21T13:29:41 < mid-kid> Uhm AN4879 section 2.1 specifically says this one doesn't have crystal-less USB. 
2019-11-21T13:29:43 < dongs> but a dual package is more limited in availbiltiy
2019-11-21T13:29:57 < dongs> mid-kid: oic well RIP then. swap it for a 12mhz xtal
2019-11-21T13:30:02 < dongs> you did use a standard 3225 footprint right
2019-11-21T13:30:29 < mid-kid> Yeah.
2019-11-21T13:30:51 < karlp> dual fets and dual bjts look pretty readily available in sc88 but yeah, I guess their supplychain is different.
2019-11-21T13:30:53 < mid-kid> I can get a new one but it's not a really pressing thing, just a minor inconvenience.
2019-11-21T13:31:23 < karlp> just don't see why I should necessarily copy it directly, if a single dual nfet replaces the 2xR+2x sot23 bjts
2019-11-21T13:32:01 < karlp> mid-kid: so, how did you choose 32MHz anyway?
2019-11-21T13:32:59 < dongs> yeah why woudl you
2019-11-21T13:33:07 < mid-kid> It's a value I've used for atmegas before so I thought it'd be fine.
2019-11-21T13:33:13 < karlp> right...
2019-11-21T13:33:21 < karlp> didn't read, yolo,
2019-11-21T13:33:28 < karlp> you get to keep all the pieces then.
2019-11-21T13:33:38 < mid-kid> Didn't really have any reason for a specific crystal value.
2019-11-21T13:33:49 < karlp> why did you even put on on then?
2019-11-21T13:33:53 < mid-kid> USB.
2019-11-21T13:33:54 < karlp> oh, that's right, didn't read ;)
2019-11-21T13:34:02 < mid-kid> >.>
2019-11-21T13:34:05 < dongs> https://www.st.com/content/ccc/resource/technical/document/application_note/c6/eb/5e/11/e3/69/43/eb/CD00221665.pdf/files/CD00221665.pdf/jcr:content/translations/en.CD00221665.pdf
2019-11-21T13:34:09 < dongs> not like this thing doesnt exist or anything
2019-11-21T13:35:06 < dongs> im actually surprised F0 goes up to 32mhz xtal
2019-11-21T13:35:14 < dongs> everything else is ~26mhz max
2019-11-21T13:35:29 < dongs> othern tha L4 and H7
2019-11-21T13:35:38 < karlp> yeah, well fuck f0.
2019-11-21T13:35:40 < karlp> bastard family.
2019-11-21T13:35:58 < karlp> l0 or g0 if you hate having debug features
2019-11-21T13:36:06 < mid-kid> I mean, I checked my MCU supported it but other than that /shrug.
2019-11-21T13:36:16 < mid-kid> I had read part of that document but not super thoroughly.
2019-11-21T13:37:36 < PaulFertser> Modern atmegas run on 32MHz now?
2019-11-21T13:40:17 < dongs> im pretty sure failmega is 16mhz hax..
2019-11-21T13:40:19 < dongs> er max
2019-11-21T13:40:27 < dongs> and it has no PLL of any kind so crystal= run frequency
2019-11-21T13:40:50 < dongs> oh wait no, you have those fuse shits to do clock division
2019-11-21T13:41:08 < dongs> been a while since i cared about any of that shit
2019-11-21T13:42:52 <@englishman> it has those fuse shits just so you can brick it
2019-11-21T13:43:00 < dongs> yes
2019-11-21T13:43:01 <@englishman> even the china clones did it better
2019-11-21T13:43:09 < dongs> and need some retarded 12V programming jig to unfuck
2019-11-21T13:43:18 < dongs> the uh... at88 thing? or wahtever
2019-11-21T13:43:19 < karlp> according to microchip, there's precisely two avrs that can do 32Mhz, both xmegas.
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2019-11-21T13:43:40 < dongs> oh yeah i remember china atmega clones. they improved something, a bunch of shit
2019-11-21T13:44:07 < dongs> like running at faster mhz was one of the things
2019-11-21T13:44:38 <@englishman> today, making split phase hsv colour wheel in fpga
2019-11-21T13:44:53 < PaulFertser> englishman: atmega can't be bricked by spi, no. Maximum you can do is to switch it into requiring external clock.
2019-11-21T13:44:56 <@englishman> and being paid for it
2019-11-21T13:45:37 < PaulFertser> mid-kid: so what part were you using with 32MHz?
2019-11-21T13:47:06 < Steffanx> Xmega is 32
2019-11-21T13:47:27 < Steffanx> Can go up to*
2019-11-21T13:47:50 < qyx> maybe the 32MHz xtal is 1x1.5mm
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2019-11-21T14:03:34 < mid-kid> PaulFertser: STM32F070F6
2019-11-21T14:05:01 < mid-kid> s/$/P6/
2019-11-21T14:05:39 < karlp> we were asking what avr you were using a 32MHz crfystal with.
2019-11-21T14:06:47 < mid-kid> Oh. I don't really recall.
2019-11-21T14:35:03 < dongs> was it running lunix? that should narrow down the choices
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2019-11-21T14:40:41 < qyx> so with a 0.5mm spark gap I should be safe to about 500V
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2019-11-21T15:03:49 <@englishman> Petition for the City of Munich to Remain on Linux
2019-11-21T15:03:59 <@englishman> The petition demands that the city administration maintain the existing operating system LiMux and that no return to Microsoft Windows should take place.
2019-11-21T15:09:36 < PaulFertser> I think there's a more important event today: https://fsfe.org/news/2019/news-20191120-01.html
2019-11-21T15:09:55 < PaulFertser> You want to use your own proper gear instead of the ISPs shit right?
2019-11-21T15:20:36 < zyp> yeah, although in a *PON network it seems a bit unrealistic to be able to use your own ONT
2019-11-21T15:22:49 < zyp> personally I'd like to be able to throw out all ISP-provided gear, but I think a fair compromise is having the NTP be a plain ethernet WAN port
2019-11-21T15:23:20 < PaulFertser> zyp: there're SFP modules for PON and so it should certainly be possible to use your own.
2019-11-21T15:23:42 < karlp> eh, as long as I can plug my router into the PON, it's ok with me.
2019-11-21T15:24:00 < PaulFertser> karlp: even that might not always be possible, see the link
2019-11-21T15:25:56 < karlp> I've already ready it, it depends what you define "modem" as.
2019-11-21T15:26:16 < karlp> like what zyp said.
2019-11-21T15:26:27 < zyp> PaulFertser, considering the authentication stuff between ONTs and OLT and the fact that ONTs are usually managed by the OLT, I think it's fair enough for the ISP to provide that
2019-11-21T15:26:54 < zyp> my impression is that there's also compatibility issues between brands
2019-11-21T15:26:56 < karlp> me wanting to put an sfp into a router and get it just right to plug directly into the fibre from the isp seems needless for anyone.
2019-11-21T15:27:36 < zyp> so requiring isps to support arbitrary ONTs seems like an unreasonably big requirement for little benefit
2019-11-21T15:27:51 < zyp> although I would personally like it, of course
2019-11-21T15:28:03 < zyp> I looked into the possibility of doing that the previous place I lived
2019-11-21T15:29:19 < zyp> all the ISPs I've had in recent years supports turning off any built in routing functionality, letting you plug in your own router in a plain WAN port, and like I said, I think that's a fair compromise
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2019-11-21T15:29:48 < sync> we already can use any modem we want
2019-11-21T15:29:57 < sync> it doesn't work so hot with cable though
2019-11-21T15:30:04 < karlp> "we" ?
2019-11-21T15:30:10 < karlp> you in germany?
2019-11-21T15:30:19 < PaulFertser> zyp: I'm not talking about arbitrary. But open standards and means to register your own device would be sane.
2019-11-21T15:30:23 < sync> yes karlp
2019-11-21T15:30:53 < karlp> sync: right, but the whole discussion is that things are not standardized, and in some places less "freedoms" and they want to standardize it, and in which way should that be done.
2019-11-21T15:30:58 < PaulFertser> zyp: problem with multiple devices is having more points of failure.
2019-11-21T15:31:06 < karlp> freedom now isn't any guarantee of freedom in the future.
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2019-11-21T15:42:22 < zyp> PaulFertser, I don't think there's any difference in number of points of failure between having an ONT as a separate box or as a SFP plugin module
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2019-11-21T15:53:14 < PaulFertser> zyp: if it's just an ONT and it shares power supply with your border gateway, yes.
2019-11-21T15:59:42 < zyp> also, on GPON and other shared mediums, I don't think it's unreasonable for the ISP to manage what devices gets to connect
2019-11-21T16:00:16 < zyp> since a misbehaving device doesn't necessarily only fuck up for yourself, but potentially also for other customers
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2019-11-21T16:15:36 < benishor> did anyone get linux-gpib working for a 5.x kernel?
2019-11-21T16:16:52 -!- con3 [~kvirc@154.119.40.183] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds]
2019-11-21T16:20:34 < rue_bed> gpib?
2019-11-21T16:23:40 < karlp> yeay baby, it's 2019 didn't yuou know
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2019-11-21T16:24:57 < benishor> it's not like I have an alternative
2019-11-21T16:26:57 < Steffanx> They still sell gpib addons for many tools for a shitload of money...
2019-11-21T16:28:07 < fenugrec> gpib is gonna change everything
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2019-11-21T16:40:14 < bitmask> my boards are done, but the stencil doesn't show any progress, hurry up doods
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2019-11-21T16:55:28 < aandrew> karlp: what're ou and qyx doing with pcie and remapping
2019-11-21T16:55:47 < karlp> just using them as cheap board2board connectors
2019-11-21T17:06:50 < bitmask> this is the shape you get when you don't consider case design while designing pcb... https://i.imgur.com/TKIzm4r.png
2019-11-21T17:07:37 < bitmask> its actually not that bad
2019-11-21T17:07:48 < aandrew> no that's not bad
2019-11-21T17:07:59 < aandrew> I was expecting a rectangle with no room at edges or mounting holes
2019-11-21T17:10:16 < bitmask> it was originally just a rectangle but I expanded it to add the case screw holes, and the connectors werent protruding enough which is why I have the cutouts
2019-11-21T17:10:34 < bitmask> I was gonna make it snap fit but thats so annoying to do
2019-11-21T17:11:15 < bitmask> the holes are for light pipes, a last minute decision
2019-11-21T17:12:07 < kakipr0> hello evenings crew
2019-11-21T17:12:20 < kakipr0> nice case bitmask
2019-11-21T17:12:41 < bitmask> thanks
2019-11-21T17:12:50 < kakipr0> it's just perfect 
2019-11-21T17:13:03 < bitmask> working on the control board case now, thats a bit trickier
2019-11-21T17:13:38 < bitmask> its going to be visible and mounted on my arm
2019-11-21T17:13:42 < sync> zyp: how does a rouge device fuck up other customers? that should be prevented by the filter on your fiber
2019-11-21T17:13:44 < bitmask> and have buttons
2019-11-21T17:17:02 < bitmask> https://i.imgur.com/4U4Vb1O.png
2019-11-21T17:17:04 < bitmask> thats what I have so far
2019-11-21T17:18:27 < Thorn> lcsc sent me tps63030 in a wrong package
2019-11-21T17:18:57 < kakipr0> whaa
2019-11-21T17:19:04 < karlp> bitmask: bluetooth? :)
2019-11-21T17:19:04 < kakipr0> they failed not you?
2019-11-21T17:19:26 < bitmask> bluetooth? where?
2019-11-21T17:19:46 < karlp> for the control :)
2019-11-21T17:19:50 < bitmask> ahh
2019-11-21T17:19:58 < zyp> sync, *PON is TDM, not WDM
2019-11-21T17:20:05 < bitmask> yea I considered it but i dunno, maybe v3
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2019-11-21T17:20:19 < bitmask> (this is v2)
2019-11-21T17:20:51 < bitmask> I like my UI for the little 0.91" oled
2019-11-21T17:21:11 < Thorn> or maybe not
2019-11-21T17:21:53 < bitmask> although it would be nice to see temperature for each heater individually
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2019-11-21T17:27:18 < sync> oh I did not realize that zyp
2019-11-21T17:33:45 < BrainDamage> it's WDM in the sense that Tx and Rx are on sep freqs, but channelization is done with TDM
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2019-11-21T17:37:34 < qyx> in kicad, how do I do a copper pour inside a keepout are?
2019-11-21T17:37:55 < qyx> ie. I want to have big gnd plane except one zone inside
2019-11-21T17:38:08 < BrainDamage> also, fun insanity: in GPON downstream must be encrypted but upstream only optionally so
2019-11-21T17:38:16 < BrainDamage> i forsee a lot of spoofing in the future
2019-11-21T17:38:26 < qyx> and then in that keepout zone I want to have another smaller pour
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2019-11-21T17:49:34 < sync> qyx: you can have zone priorities
2019-11-21T17:49:57 < sync> BrainDamage: yes, that is already an issue
2019-11-21T17:51:50 < qyx> no worky for keepout
2019-11-21T17:52:25 < qyx> the keeput keeps out anything regardless of priority settings
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2019-11-21T18:03:52 < qyx> https://i.imgur.com/cZ5dMQ2.png
2019-11-21T18:03:55 < qyx> starting looking good
2019-11-21T18:04:03 < qyx> also, why not F0, karlp?
2019-11-21T18:05:35 < karlp> because it's m0 instead of m0+.
2019-11-21T18:05:47 < karlp> also, the f0 familiy has a wweird mix of bits in it.
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2019-11-21T18:35:41 < bitmask> what is the purpose of the ground strips on the top and bottom of the board?
2019-11-21T18:35:56 < bitmask> top and bottom of the top layer
2019-11-21T18:36:07 < bitmask> qyx
2019-11-21T18:41:55 < qyx> they are going into guide rails
2019-11-21T18:42:29 < bitmask> ahh
2019-11-21T18:52:34 < steve> PaulFertser it worked like a charm, thanks!  _JAVA_AWT_WM_NONREPARENTING=1 ./arduino
2019-11-21T18:53:58 < PaulFertser> steve: :)
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2019-11-21T19:03:45 < Thorn> wat is this http://bbs.ntpcb.com/read.php?tid-84272.html
2019-11-21T19:07:10 <@englishman> a slow website
2019-11-21T19:07:32 < Cracki> that's a lot of vias
2019-11-21T19:07:34 <@englishman> Thorn: any failx news
2019-11-21T19:07:49 < Cracki> lol that's just wifi, why would they do that
2019-11-21T19:10:08 < Thorn> englishman https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pAjcokd24MU
2019-11-21T19:10:54 <@englishman> dun dun dun
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2019-11-21T19:23:31 < Thorn> I'm running out of 10µF, plz send reel
2019-11-21T19:28:07 <@englishman> only have 50v 1206. $5 each
2019-11-21T19:35:46 < bitmask> aside from the length, im happy with it
2019-11-21T19:35:46 < bitmask> https://i.imgur.com/rbaIDEj.png
2019-11-21T19:36:22 < Steffanx> I'm happy when you are
2019-11-21T19:36:29 < jadew> what is it?
2019-11-21T19:36:48 < bitmask> the controls for my heated jacket, thats gonna snap onto my upper arm
2019-11-21T19:36:56 < bitmask> 4 buttons + oled
2019-11-21T19:37:07 < jadew> got it
2019-11-21T19:37:10 < bitmask> you're cute Steffanx ;)
2019-11-21T19:38:05 < bitmask> now someone print these for me
2019-11-21T19:41:39 < Steffanx> Ok
2019-11-21T19:51:33 < jadew> someone was looking for a VNA? https://www.ebay.com/itm/N5224B-43-GHz-4port-PNA-Network-Analyzer-Loaded-Spectrum-OPT-Keysight-Warranty-/333406676953
2019-11-21T19:52:53 < specing> I am amazed at how good the rc oscillator in stm32f072 is
2019-11-21T19:52:55 < aandrew> not bad. I'll just take out a mortgage...
2019-11-21T19:53:07 < specing> at room temperature, it drifts 10 seconds ahead each day
2019-11-21T19:55:02 < jadew> I wonder how much it costs to ship a device that expensive for calibration
2019-11-21T19:55:11 < jadew> you have to get insurance
2019-11-21T19:56:18 < aandrew> I think they come to you
2019-11-21T19:57:56 < jadew> could be cheaper
2019-11-21T20:00:06 <@englishman> you just have to get iso17025 certified 
2019-11-21T20:04:29 < Steffanx> Fuck iso certifications
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2019-11-21T20:11:06 < BrainDamage> iso certifications essentrially just mean "your shit is documented"
2019-11-21T20:11:34 < BrainDamage> there's no guarantee that it works or whatnot
2019-11-21T20:11:49 < BrainDamage> just that you have a paper trail for someone to investigate to
2019-11-21T20:29:23 < sync> jadew: the lad comes with his renault kangoo, throws it in the back and then comes back with it cal'd
2019-11-21T20:33:34 < Steffanx> Yeah, kinda BrainDamage  
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2019-11-21T21:48:47 < bitmask> think something like this would work to hold the buttons and allow them to be pressed? they barely have to travel to click the button: https://i.imgur.com/LK8dAuu.png
2019-11-21T21:50:21 < doomba> it looks like mcdonald's stole apple's butterfly keyboard design to use in a door hinge
2019-11-21T21:50:43 < BrainDamage> working it'll work, the question is how reliable it'll be
2019-11-21T21:50:50 < BrainDamage> the M will get bending stress
2019-11-21T21:50:54 < bitmask> guess I'll have to print it and try it
2019-11-21T21:51:04 < BrainDamage> and they'll snap off one day
2019-11-21T21:51:13 < BrainDamage> it may be 10 clicks or may be 1000000
2019-11-21T21:51:35 < Laurenceb> emdrive: thread 12
2019-11-21T21:51:45 < BrainDamage> do you plan to sell it or just for yourself?
2019-11-21T21:51:50 < bitmask> for me
2019-11-21T21:52:02 < BrainDamage> ok, so if it breaks you can just print a new one
2019-11-21T21:52:06 < bitmask> yup
2019-11-21T21:52:17 < BrainDamage> just make the case easily swappable
2019-11-21T21:52:21 < doomba> bitmask: if the height of the buttons meets up with the tabs, i think it will work fine
2019-11-21T21:52:24 < bitmask> it is, just 4 screws and its done
2019-11-21T21:52:24 < BrainDamage> read: screws, no inserts
2019-11-21T21:52:35 < doomba> because then the M is only stretching the travel of the button itself
2019-11-21T21:52:56 < bitmask> yea it does, it all has to travel less than a mm
2019-11-21T21:53:05 < bitmask> so it should be fine I would think
2019-11-21T21:53:07 < doomba> yeah i think that will be fine.
2019-11-21T21:53:27 < BrainDamage> if you want to be anal, you could even take a motor and make a small jig to press the button, like a D rotor
2019-11-21T21:53:30 < doomba> the buttons will probably malfunction before the M breaks
2019-11-21T21:53:37 < BrainDamage> then just count rotations before it breaks
2019-11-21T21:53:59 < BrainDamage> you don't even need a micro, just know the rev/min and time the break
2019-11-21T21:54:28 < bitmask> way too much effort
2019-11-21T21:54:32 < bitmask> i'll just try it
2019-11-21T21:54:57 < bitmask> I gotta get my printer up and running again unfortunately
2019-11-21T21:55:40 < sync> or you do some simple FEM to figure out the stress and fatigue life
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2019-11-21T21:57:39 < Spirit532> Hi! Are there any STM32 gurus who would be willing to help me set up 6-step PWM in an STSPIN32F0A(STM32F031C6T inside) without thousands of lines of ST libraries?
2019-11-21T21:58:47 < Spirit532> I've designed a 3-phase servo drive that will end up being opensource, but I'm a bit stuck on understanding how TIM1 configuration works to drive 6 phases.
2019-11-21T21:59:32 < Spirit532> (and I'd rather not try plugging in and modifying the entire ST Motor Control SDK or the standalone 6-step lib)
2019-11-21T22:11:02 < srk> Spirit532: https://github.com/distrap/ivory-tower-drivers/blob/master/src/Ivory/Tower/Drivers/PWM/ATIM.hs
2019-11-21T22:11:16 < Steffanx> haksell :)
2019-11-21T22:11:47 < Spirit532> I don't know whether to thank you or shoot you for linking me haskell
2019-11-21T22:12:16 < srk> line 58+
2019-11-21T22:12:31 < mawk> do you think NL can now I acquired voluntarily LU citizenship Steffanx ?
2019-11-21T22:12:53 < Spirit532> srk, I can barely read that
2019-11-21T22:12:58 < mawk> the law says that if I acquired voluntarily another citizenship than my birth citizenship and my NL citizenship, then I automatically lose the NL one
2019-11-21T22:13:02 < mawk> can know*
2019-11-21T22:13:25 < emeryth> Spirit532: what's wrong with using the library? it is open source
2019-11-21T22:13:26 < srk> Spirit532:         modifyReg atimRegCR1 $ do
2019-11-21T22:13:27 < srk>           setField atim_cr1_dir cr1_dir_up
2019-11-21T22:13:39 < Spirit532> emeryth, it's just huge and very complicated
2019-11-21T22:13:45 < srk> Spirit532: sets CR1 registers DIR value 
2019-11-21T22:13:50 < srk> and so on
2019-11-21T22:14:27 < srk> Spirit532: I also have a servo drive fw prototype here https://github.com/distrap/lambdadrive/ :D
2019-11-21T22:15:03 < Spirit532> srk, my project is very cheap and tiny compared to the odrive, that's what I'm going for
2019-11-21T22:15:20 < srk> Spirit532: pics
2019-11-21T22:15:32 < Spirit532> one moment
2019-11-21T22:17:16 < srk> \o/
2019-11-21T22:18:52 < Spirit532> design:
2019-11-21T22:18:52 < Spirit532> https://i.spirit.re/oAn4J.png
2019-11-21T22:19:19 < Spirit532> in the flesh:
2019-11-21T22:19:22 < Spirit532> https://i.spirit.re/Y9488.jpg
2019-11-21T22:19:35 < srk> pretty!
2019-11-21T22:19:41 < srk> rs485
2019-11-21T22:19:43 < srk> hmm
2019-11-21T22:19:54 < srk> are you the guy doing the robot arm I saw on hackaday?
2019-11-21T22:20:05 < Spirit532> nope, I already have a kuka bot
2019-11-21T22:20:14 < Spirit532> though this might end up replacing the servo drives inside that
2019-11-21T22:20:48 < Spirit532> but yeah, the STSPIN32F0A is quite a weird device
2019-11-21T22:21:06 < srk> nah, not robot arm
2019-11-21T22:21:13 < srk> cheetah like bot
2019-11-21T22:21:25 < Spirit532> I believe that would be the dizzyrobot guy
2019-11-21T22:21:36 < Spirit532> he has a similar project
2019-11-21T22:21:59 < srk> this one https://hackaday.com/2019/10/03/amazing-open-source-quadruped-capable-of-dynamic-motion/
2019-11-21T22:22:04 < srk> "dynamic" motion :D
2019-11-21T22:22:10 < Spirit532> nope, that's not the guy
2019-11-21T22:22:35 < Spirit532> that is very dynamic motion, relying on jumping to keep stability!
2019-11-21T22:22:52 < srk> yeah, he will get there eventually :)
2019-11-21T22:23:02 < srk> but the controllers are cool
2019-11-21T22:23:31 < Spirit532> mine fits into a NEMA17 footprint, and is designed to do that
2019-11-21T22:23:46 < Spirit532> I didn't know his controller existed
2019-11-21T22:24:07 < srk> when I'm done with firmware I'll try to desing my own, so far I'm testing on odrives and custom f7 devboards with boostxl-drv8323
2019-11-21T22:24:26 < buZz> Spirit532: thats a sexy board
2019-11-21T22:24:29 < srk> I'm trying to implement canopen position interpolated mode 
2019-11-21T22:24:33 < Spirit532> buZz, thanks :P
2019-11-21T22:24:36 < buZz> Spirit532: is it like a inverse o-drive?
2019-11-21T22:24:39 < Spirit532> it's got a lot of issues I've identified on assembly
2019-11-21T22:24:39 < buZz> o-drive?
2019-11-21T22:24:42 < Spirit532> inverse?
2019-11-21T22:24:43 < buZz> odrive?
2019-11-21T22:24:45 < buZz> well
2019-11-21T22:24:52 < buZz> odrive is 'use BLDC as stepper/servo'
2019-11-21T22:24:58 < buZz> is this 'use stepper as BLDC'
2019-11-21T22:24:58 < buZz> :P
2019-11-21T22:25:02 < Spirit532> nope
2019-11-21T22:25:05 < buZz> ok
2019-11-21T22:25:12 < Spirit532> it's the same as odrive in terms of goal, except the encoder sits on the back of the drive directly
2019-11-21T22:25:17 < Spirit532> and the drive fits on the motor itself
2019-11-21T22:25:19 < buZz> just a rs485 networked stepperdriver?
2019-11-21T22:25:22 < Spirit532> servo!
2019-11-21T22:25:24 < Spirit532> 3 phase AC
2019-11-21T22:25:25 < srk> buZz: use stepper as BLDC is pretty difficult, if you want FOC :)
2019-11-21T22:25:29 < buZz> oh ok
2019-11-21T22:25:39 < buZz> srk: hah, yeah i gather
2019-11-21T22:25:46 < Spirit532> there exist very cheap, very powerful(70-200W) NEMA-style 3 phase motors
2019-11-21T22:25:48 < buZz> but just 'spin really fast' should be doable
2019-11-21T22:25:56 < buZz> nema17?
2019-11-21T22:26:02 < Spirit532> I have a 78W NEMA17 motor that I got for $28
2019-11-21T22:26:02 < buZz> 200w nema17 would be -cute-
2019-11-21T22:26:14 < Spirit532> I believe 78 is the largest nema17 that is cheap
2019-11-21T22:26:19 < Spirit532> 200 is easily in nema23 iirc
2019-11-21T22:26:52 < Spirit532> if this design is scaled to nema23, it'll probably be able to drive a few hundred watts
2019-11-21T22:27:18 < Cracki> oh, it's bldc time?
2019-11-21T22:27:35 < Spirit532> it isn't yet, because I suck at low level stm32 configuration
2019-11-21T22:27:45 < Spirit532> hence my arrival in this channel
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2019-11-21T22:27:55 < Cracki> you are being monitored
2019-11-21T22:28:15 < Cracki> I have a bldc spindle motor knocked out of a HDD to play with.
2019-11-21T22:28:30 < Spirit532> that's probably less than 10W
2019-11-21T22:28:46 < Cracki> no hall sensors, if you can believe it. the CD/DVD drive motors I have do have them, but I don't have a suitable flatflex connector to connect those and breadboard it
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2019-11-21T22:28:56 < Cracki> it's good enough to play with, try principles
2019-11-21T22:28:59 < srk> I've switched to 2030 quadcopter motors from big 1kW+ ones
2019-11-21T22:29:00 < srk> this
2019-11-21T22:29:04 < Cracki> hell if I had a bldc driver here
2019-11-21T22:29:10 < sync> Spirit532: that looks like a cloned dizzyrobot driver
2019-11-21T22:29:29 < Spirit532> sync, it almost is
2019-11-21T22:29:39 < Spirit532> but it just shows how neat the stspin32 chip is
2019-11-21T22:29:50 < Spirit532> power, brains, and gate drive in a single QFN
2019-11-21T22:29:51 < Cracki> anyone told you how tim1 with 6 channels works?
2019-11-21T22:30:05 < Spirit532> nope, trying to learn about that now
2019-11-21T22:30:08 < Cracki> it has 3 effective channels, with three more complementary outputs
2019-11-21T22:30:24 < Spirit532> which is what I need, positive and negative, to drive high and low fets
2019-11-21T22:30:27 < Cracki> you assign each of those 3 channels the appropriate pwm duty cycle
2019-11-21T22:30:35 < Cracki> if you want to drive it blind
2019-11-21T22:30:52 < Spirit532> oh, so each channel has a separate counter?
2019-11-21T22:31:03 < Cracki> if you have any way to measure current, or even just get a bit when it exceeds a threshold, that's even more fancy
2019-11-21T22:31:11 < Cracki> no, the timer is a counter
2019-11-21T22:31:17 < Spirit532> well, thresholds
2019-11-21T22:31:22 < Cracki> but these three channels do output compare for PWM
2019-11-21T22:31:28 < Spirit532> comparison, that's the word
2019-11-21T22:31:48 < Spirit532> three separate thresholds, so I can set per-phase output
2019-11-21T22:31:50 < Cracki> output := (counter <= somevalue)
2019-11-21T22:32:38 < Cracki> *less than
2019-11-21T22:33:02 < Cracki> if you have this STSPIN thingy, there will be appnotes
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2019-11-21T22:33:16 < Cracki> st site lists all those materials
2019-11-21T22:33:16 < Spirit532> there are appnotes, all of which point to the motor control sdk
2019-11-21T22:33:20 < Cracki> heh
2019-11-21T22:33:29 < Spirit532> which is about as fat as some HAL layers
2019-11-21T22:33:45 < Cracki> does anything mention current sensing?
2019-11-21T22:34:03 < Spirit532> yeah, there's opamps inside the thing and I have a shunt on the board to measure current
2019-11-21T22:34:11 < Spirit532> but for now I'd like to just... make some noises with the motor
2019-11-21T22:34:12 < Cracki> good good
2019-11-21T22:34:15 < Spirit532> maybe do a single slow spin
2019-11-21T22:34:19 < Spirit532> I was very disappointed with how bad the documentation is for this chip
2019-11-21T22:34:59 < Cracki> a simple helloworld should be toggling channel duty cycles between 0 and some lowish value
2019-11-21T22:35:19 < sync> Spirit532: why just one? you could at least do three low side shunts
2019-11-21T22:35:23 < Spirit532> sync, space
2019-11-21T22:35:31 < Cracki> if you gave it 100% the coil would get supply voltage continuously, that can be a bit much
2019-11-21T22:35:35 < Spirit532> in a NEMA17 footprint and 2 layers, three shunts was nearly impossible to do
2019-11-21T22:35:45 < Spirit532> in NEMA23 I will probably incorporate a 3-shunt design
2019-11-21T22:35:51 < Spirit532> (if I get to that point)
2019-11-21T22:36:10 < srk> 2 is enough, 3 is better :)
2019-11-21T22:36:14 < Cracki> ah you want to reinvent bldc drivers like vesc and such
2019-11-21T22:36:21 < Spirit532> nope
2019-11-21T22:36:26 < srk> Cracki: that would be me
2019-11-21T22:36:28 < sync> huh, the design doesn't look all that tight
2019-11-21T22:36:29 < Cracki> ah
2019-11-21T22:36:32 < Spirit532> this will be a position-based controller
2019-11-21T22:36:36 < Spirit532> sync, look at the layout
2019-11-21T22:36:45 < Spirit532> wait you can't look at the layout, I haven't posted it
2019-11-21T22:36:55 < Cracki> use one of those 14 bit magnetic rotary encoders for position feedback? hall sensors are a bit coarse
2019-11-21T22:36:56 < Spirit532> https://i.spirit.re/1CDVh.png
2019-11-21T22:36:58 < Spirit532> look at the layout
2019-11-21T22:37:01 < Cracki> (hall sensor for angle)
2019-11-21T22:37:08 < Spirit532> Cracki, the current design uses the AS5600 sensor
2019-11-21T22:37:12 < Cracki> vesc can do position control too
2019-11-21T22:37:18 < Spirit532> vesc is also way too expensive
2019-11-21T22:37:30 < Cracki> and there's some other project that uses bldc + board for general motion control
2019-11-21T22:37:34 < Cracki> odrive
2019-11-21T22:37:38 < Spirit532> which is huge and also expensive
2019-11-21T22:37:41 < Cracki> :P
2019-11-21T22:37:44 < sync> yeah, that's not really tight
2019-11-21T22:37:47 < Spirit532> this is tiny and cheap
2019-11-21T22:37:51 < srk> odrive is gonna have a small version
2019-11-21T22:37:56 < sync> or you could easily have done it in 4 layers
2019-11-21T22:37:58 < Cracki> tiny and cheap, that sounds interesting
2019-11-21T22:38:00 < srk> no longer open hw tho
2019-11-21T22:38:09 < Spirit532> sync, sure, but four layers doubles the price of the board
2019-11-21T22:38:16 < srk> there are cheapo vesc variants as well
2019-11-21T22:38:18 < Spirit532> and with how cheap this is, that is a major bump in cost
2019-11-21T22:38:27 < Spirit532> srk, at least $90-120ish for the cheapest vescs
2019-11-21T22:38:35 < srk> yeah, possibly
2019-11-21T22:38:36 < qyx> are you sure those mosfets will not turn into smoke?
2019-11-21T22:38:38 < Spirit532> this is less than $30 
2019-11-21T22:38:42 < srk> oh nice
2019-11-21T22:38:42 < Spirit532> qyx, at these power levels? no
2019-11-21T22:38:48 < sync> yeah, but who cares if the board is $2 instead of $1
2019-11-21T22:38:59 < sync> but it looks like it's easily done in 2 layers too
2019-11-21T22:39:01 < Spirit532> the board is $6 instead of $3 at best
2019-11-21T22:39:07 < Spirit532> $6 instead of $1 at best
2019-11-21T22:39:10 < Cracki> all those people do their own bldc driver, then see >100W motors they want to drive, and then everything grows
2019-11-21T22:39:21 < Cracki> stmbl has grown to be able to drive industrial 6-axis manipulators
2019-11-21T22:39:27 < Spirit532> the power target is ~100W
2019-11-21T22:39:35 < Spirit532> the largest nema17 motors you can buy
2019-11-21T22:39:42 < Spirit532> but most will be at around 30-50W
2019-11-21T22:39:49 < Spirit532> a cheap drop-in replacement for steppers
2019-11-21T22:39:50 < Cracki> sounds good
2019-11-21T22:39:59 < Cracki> keep me posted
2019-11-21T22:40:05 < sync> Cracki: what do you mean with grown?
2019-11-21T22:40:05 < Cracki> boss might be interested in that
2019-11-21T22:40:11 < Spirit532> first is to try to figure this TIM1 stuff out
2019-11-21T22:40:17 < Cracki> grown as in "let's aim for moar current"
2019-11-21T22:40:33 < srk> how much for the motor?
2019-11-21T22:40:39 < sync> that's not really true Cracki
2019-11-21T22:40:47 < srk> Cracki: seen axiom?
2019-11-21T22:40:56 < srk> Cracki: https://hackaday.io/project/164932-axiom-100kw-motor-controller
2019-11-21T22:41:02 < Spirit532> I mean these fets, on paper, can handle close to 1kW
2019-11-21T22:41:08 < Spirit532> 60V @ 17A
2019-11-21T22:41:16 < Spirit532> obviously they won't, the board will vaporize
2019-11-21T22:41:35 < Cracki> Spirit532, my breadboard has two SN754410 (darlington thingies) and that's good enough to fuck with tiny motors and low frequencies but eh
2019-11-21T22:41:38 < Spirit532> but 300W? I reckon that's within reach with some custom machined heatsinks
2019-11-21T22:42:10 < Spirit532> the idea here is to have the power density higher than the most powerful motor available in this size
2019-11-21T22:42:17 < Spirit532> which this should easily hit
2019-11-21T22:42:28 < Spirit532> the largest nema17 motor I've seen so far(and I have it) is 78W
2019-11-21T22:42:32 < Cracki> axiom on an ebike, you'll dismount quickly
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2019-11-21T22:42:41 < srk> haha
2019-11-21T22:43:07 < srk> needs two motors and traction control 
2019-11-21T22:43:09 < Spirit532> Cracki, you're welcome to try contributing! :P
2019-11-21T22:43:21 < Cracki> kek
2019-11-21T22:43:43 < Cracki> I'll lurk and occasionally send you a link of a kookaburra
2019-11-21T22:43:50 < Cracki> *to
2019-11-21T22:43:57 < Spirit532> time to learn about timer configuration with hal and cubemx
2019-11-21T22:44:15 < Cracki> that's still doable
2019-11-21T22:44:17 < Spirit532> I feel a little more comfortable with nice gooey buttons to click rather than using SPL
2019-11-21T22:44:46 < Cracki> tip: if anything is 0, you want to think about setting it to something else
2019-11-21T22:44:57 < Cracki> period for example
2019-11-21T22:44:58 < Spirit532> that's very reassuring
2019-11-21T22:46:27 < Cracki> haxxor https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6pfFxiDn708
2019-11-21T22:51:00 < Cracki> for a start, you could take some lab supply leads and touch them in sequence to the three leads of the motor
2019-11-21T22:51:24 < Cracki> one lead 1-2 ahead of the other
2019-11-21T22:51:42 < Spirit532> I'd be a very expensive and imprecise servo drive
2019-11-21T22:52:16 < Cracki> -+_ / -_+ / _-+ / +-_ / +_- / _+- / -+_ /...
2019-11-21T22:52:38 < Cracki> that's full/half stepping equivalent to a stepper motor
2019-11-21T22:52:49 < Cracki> with no current control :>
2019-11-21T22:54:13 < Spirit532> _?
2019-11-21T22:54:27 < Spirit532> ... tristating the output?
2019-11-21T22:54:35 < Cracki> not touching
2019-11-21T22:55:00 < Cracki> if you want to make it spin before you have any electronic components set up
2019-11-21T22:55:12 < Spirit532> oh manual control lol
2019-11-21T22:55:22 < Spirit532> that's silly
2019-11-21T22:55:42 < kakipr0> Cracki: fucker comes through the window
2019-11-21T22:55:51 < Cracki> feed flesh
2019-11-21T22:56:12 < kakipr0> birds can be dicks
2019-11-21T22:56:54 < Cracki> mad lad from oz ripped the head off one cheeky bugger when he wouldn't let him eat in peace
2019-11-21T22:56:57 < kakipr0> I was harrased by a gang of crows once
2019-11-21T22:57:05 < Cracki> rough them up
2019-11-21T22:57:43 < kakipr0> drumming my window board in early morning hours
2019-11-21T22:58:32 < kakipr0> I open the window shades and it just looks at me behind the glass
2019-11-21T22:59:23 < kakipr0> it was intentional
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2019-11-21T23:19:47 < qyx> kakipr0: how many sheets so far?
2019-11-21T23:20:12 < kakipr0> 31
2019-11-21T23:20:17 < kakipr0> just the hub unit
2019-11-21T23:20:23 < kakipr0> I'm layouting now
2019-11-21T23:20:28 < kakipr0> for a change
2019-11-21T23:20:36 < kakipr0> I iterate schematics as I go
2019-11-21T23:20:53 < Cracki> autolayouting needs to become better
2019-11-21T23:21:02 < qyx> for sure
2019-11-21T23:21:06 < qyx> https://i.imgur.com/ML34KOa.png
2019-11-21T23:21:12 < qyx> it looks like it will all fit
2019-11-21T23:21:14 < Cracki> I can't believe it's still not solved satisfactorily
2019-11-21T23:21:51 < Cracki> ram it in with extra flux
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2019-11-21T23:28:29 < kakipr0> do you connect 2520 crystal unused pads to gnd or not? 
2019-11-21T23:28:47 < Spirit532> I don't
2019-11-21T23:29:04 < rajkosto> i do cuz i want gnd around it anyway
2019-11-21T23:29:53 < Steffanx> i do what the datasheet tells me :P
2019-11-21T23:30:04 < rajkosto> make sure no switching currents travel on the ground under/next to the crystal tho
2019-11-21T23:30:29 < Steffanx> you were gone last night kakipr0. Are you alright?
2019-11-21T23:30:36 < kakipr0> day off
2019-11-21T23:31:17 < Steffanx> hm
2019-11-21T23:38:02 < Steffanx> have some random music kakipr0 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ih2xubMaZWI
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--- Day changed Fri Nov 22 2019
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2019-11-22T00:42:18 < Cracki> nonplanar 3d printing: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gmePlcU0TRw
2019-11-22T00:43:36 < Mangy_Dog> hoped it wasd going to be a new video
2019-11-22T00:48:20 < Cracki> it's a clipshow
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2019-11-22T00:57:20 < Cracki> original is from august 2019 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=km1lvuva5mI
2019-11-22T01:07:45 < aandrew> interesting
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2019-11-22T01:09:53 < Cracki> btw: table salt melts at 801 celsius.
2019-11-22T01:10:02 < Cracki> might be a neat experiment for the kids :>
2019-11-22T01:10:22 < jadew> is that in one of the videos?
2019-11-22T01:10:24 < Cracki> (1465c boiling)
2019-11-22T01:10:33 < Cracki> no, I'm just watching thorium reactor videos
2019-11-22T01:10:51 < Cracki> some dude is flamethrowering some pipe
2019-11-22T01:11:32 < Spirit532> I'm a bit confused about the cubemx timer setup
2019-11-22T01:11:37 < Spirit532> I've set it up for this
2019-11-22T01:11:38 < Spirit532> https://i.spirit.re/VC49i.png
2019-11-22T01:11:51 < Spirit532> the constants are also correctly set(from an example)
2019-11-22T01:12:13 < Spirit532> then I run TIM1->CCR1/2/3 = 128;
2019-11-22T01:12:28 < Spirit532> but I'm seeing nothing on the output - where did I mess up?
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2019-11-22T01:12:35 < Cracki> assuming counter period is right
2019-11-22T01:12:46 < Cracki> lemme check my stuff
2019-11-22T01:13:10 < Cracki> also, this merely sets the timer up
2019-11-22T01:13:13 < Cracki> it doesn't engage the timer
2019-11-22T01:13:18 < Spirit532> how do I engage it?
2019-11-22T01:13:21 < Cracki> you need to add a call to the appropriate api
2019-11-22T01:13:28 < Cracki> sec
2019-11-22T01:13:30 < Spirit532> I'm using HAL here
2019-11-22T01:14:44 < Cracki> HAL_TIM_PWM_Start(&htim2, TIM_CHANNEL_1); // index, keine maske
2019-11-22T01:14:46 < Cracki> something like that
2019-11-22T01:14:55 < Cracki> ignore the teutonic comment
2019-11-22T01:15:17 < Cracki> I put that in some "user code begin 2" section
2019-11-22T01:15:27 < Cracki> before it has generated some *_Init() calls
2019-11-22T01:15:42 < Cracki> if you need to eat quadrature encoder input: HAL_TIM_Encoder_Start(&htim1, TIM_CHANNEL_ALL);
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2019-11-22T01:16:47 < Cracki> (my situation drives two brushed dc motors, hence two timers for encoders, one with 2+2 channels for pwm driving)
2019-11-22T01:17:11 < Spirit532> placed it in user code 2 with &htim1 and TIM_CHANNEL_ALL
2019-11-22T01:17:13 < Spirit532> still nothing
2019-11-22T01:17:32 < Cracki> try single channel
2019-11-22T01:17:39 < Spirit532> same thing
2019-11-22T01:17:39 < Cracki> CHANNEL_ALL might not work
2019-11-22T01:17:48 < Cracki> ok then, something else
2019-11-22T01:18:12 < Cracki> what's HF_TIM_...
2019-11-22T01:18:33 < Spirit532> these are the constants from the example
2019-11-22T01:18:34 < Spirit532> https://i.spirit.re/7DXqs.png
2019-11-22T01:18:42 < Spirit532> maybe I should nuke them and use static values
2019-11-22T01:18:57 < Cracki> no prescaler eh?
2019-11-22T01:19:00 < Cracki> try that
2019-11-22T01:20:08 < Cracki> break and dead time stuff might need touching, haven't tried that yet
2019-11-22T01:20:23 < Spirit532> I'll disable that for now
2019-11-22T01:20:41 < Spirit532> what about the trigger source, slave mode, and the two checkboxes?
2019-11-22T01:20:53 < Spirit532> break input and ETR
2019-11-22T01:20:58 < Cracki> my working pwm has Disable on slave mode and trigger source
2019-11-22T01:22:08 < Cracki> I also have disabled auto-reload preload
2019-11-22T01:23:16 < Cracki> I think I decided against it because, with it, it's only updating on period match/overflow or something, which means the register is never set
2019-11-22T01:23:36 < Cracki> because it needs setting to be correct, but the event isn't generated from starting conditions
2019-11-22T01:23:46 < Cracki> (so you'd have to poke something to make it)
2019-11-22T01:24:19 < Cracki> also I have trigger event selection to "Reset (UG bit..."
2019-11-22T01:24:24 < Cracki> not sure why tho
2019-11-22T01:24:29 < Cracki> that's TRGO stuff
2019-11-22T01:27:01 < Spirit532> that's odd, still nothing
2019-11-22T01:29:36 < Cracki> try good old PWM first maybe
2019-11-22T01:30:11 < Cracki> for f103: https://imgur.com/bgeHkge
2019-11-22T01:30:55 < Cracki> I'm doing four calls like HAL_TIM_PWM_Start(&htim2, TIM_CHANNEL_4);
2019-11-22T01:31:10 < Cracki> then TIM2->CCR3 = ...; to change duty cycle
2019-11-22T01:32:26 < Cracki> check under gpios:TIM that they look ok: https://imgur.com/PmEqVoz
2019-11-22T01:32:40 < Cracki> my timer pins are pa0, pa1, pb10, pb11
2019-11-22T01:33:05 < Cracki> I'm not sure if I had to configure them of it that was automagic
2019-11-22T01:33:33 < Spirit532> huh, nothing
2019-11-22T01:33:49 < Cracki> sorcery
2019-11-22T01:34:05 < Spirit532> maybe it's to do with this gate driver crap
2019-11-22T01:34:14 < Spirit532> I'll set up TIM2 and see if it wiggles my LED
2019-11-22T01:34:51 < Spirit532> 48MHz clock, so 48000 prescaler should give me 1hz
2019-11-22T01:34:58 < Spirit532> er, no, it won't
2019-11-22T01:35:05 < Spirit532> 1kHz
2019-11-22T01:35:13 < Spirit532> ... can I even make a 48MHz prescaler?
2019-11-22T01:35:22 < Spirit532> nope, 16 bit value
2019-11-22T01:35:23 < Cracki> I think it's 16 bit
2019-11-22T01:35:29 < Cracki> 65535+1 is max value
2019-11-22T01:35:37 < Spirit532> 730Hz or thereabouts
2019-11-22T01:35:39 < Cracki> I think you understand the +1 stuff
2019-11-22T01:35:41 < Spirit532> yep
2019-11-22T01:35:58 < Cracki> the prescaler prescales the clock to the timer
2019-11-22T01:35:59 < Spirit532> I can divide it further by 4, should be enough
2019-11-22T01:36:09 < Cracki> so 48e6 / 2^16 -> 732 hz to the timer
2019-11-22T01:36:17 < Cracki> if you wanted 1 hz operation, use a period of 732-1
2019-11-22T01:36:27 < Spirit532> oh, huh
2019-11-22T01:36:54 < Cracki> period ~ ARR
2019-11-22T01:37:02 < Spirit532> this has to be it
2019-11-22T01:37:03 < Spirit532> https://i.spirit.re/h3wsL.png
2019-11-22T01:37:08 < Cracki> does it wiggle
2019-11-22T01:37:14 < Spirit532> let's see
2019-11-22T01:37:21 < Cracki> it shouldn't
2019-11-22T01:37:25 < Spirit532> shouldn't?
2019-11-22T01:37:27 < Cracki> pwm channel 1 has 0 pulse
2019-11-22T01:37:35 < Spirit532> oh, what should I set there?
2019-11-22T01:37:35 < Cracki> give it 300 or something
2019-11-22T01:37:45 < Cracki> half of the period sounds nice
2019-11-22T01:39:02 < Cracki> you could use 48000-1 for prescaler, then you'd have exactly 1 khz to the timer, and with a period of 1000-1 you'd get 1 hz overflows
2019-11-22T01:39:48 < Spirit532> ok it's definitely the gate driver crfap
2019-11-22T01:39:51 < Spirit532> it wiggles!
2019-11-22T01:39:56 < Spirit532> ok, I'm not stupid, just uneducated(so far)
2019-11-22T01:40:34 < Cracki> lots of moving parts there, cube is for the initiated
2019-11-22T01:40:43 < Spirit532> and I thought cube was for the noob
2019-11-22T01:41:09 < Cracki> nah, it's for the lazy programmer who cba to remember all the init code
2019-11-22T01:41:33 < Cracki> so the gate driver fails?
2019-11-22T01:41:48 < Spirit532> I know there's some standby and safety registers
2019-11-22T01:41:57 < Spirit532> but I just set them(from other example code) and nothing so far
2019-11-22T01:42:13 < Cracki> does it take three pwm signals, or six?
2019-11-22T01:42:29 < Spirit532> six pins
2019-11-22T01:42:31 < Spirit532> high3, low3
2019-11-22T01:42:36 < Spirit532> aaaand other stuff
2019-11-22T01:42:45 < Spirit532> https://www.st.com/resource/en/datasheet/stspin32f0a.pdf
2019-11-22T01:42:52 < Cracki> if it takes six, the complementary ones need to be time shifted so high side and low side of one half-bridge don't conduct at the same time
2019-11-22T01:43:06 < Spirit532> I'm only driving high for now
2019-11-22T01:43:15 < Cracki> good
2019-11-22T01:43:37 < Cracki> yeh make it wiggle one channel and maybe its complement
2019-11-22T01:44:25 < Cracki> oh right, simple mosfet gate drivers
2019-11-22T01:45:02 < Cracki> they should (!) just exhibit whatever timer output you generate
2019-11-22T01:45:05 < Spirit532> I have a suspicion that there's something purposefully not letting me wiggle it because something isn't configured the right way
2019-11-22T01:45:56 < qyx> you know such drivers need the low mosfet to be conducting occassionaly
2019-11-22T01:46:09 < qyx> otherwise the bootstrap cap will never charge
2019-11-22T01:46:35 < Cracki> ah so mess with the low side for now, it needs no bootstrapping
2019-11-22T01:48:26 < qyx> your OUT must connect to ground with the low side mosfet first
2019-11-22T01:48:51 < qyx> the Cboot will charge from Vreg12 through the diode inside
2019-11-22T01:49:07 < qyx> then you may toggle the high side driver
2019-11-22T01:49:53 < Spirit532> so here's my cube setup at the moment
2019-11-22T01:49:54 < Spirit532> https://i.spirit.re/R1Al2.png
2019-11-22T01:50:09 < Spirit532> and here's everything in main
2019-11-22T01:50:09 < Spirit532> https://i.spirit.re/ysxRL.txt
2019-11-22T01:50:38 < Spirit532> the status LED blinks, but I'm seeing nothing on any of the low side drive inputs
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2019-11-22T01:54:17 < Spirit532> the high side is always stuck on
2019-11-22T01:54:53 < kakipr0> pants go off now.. it's time to kicad
2019-11-22T01:57:28 < Spirit532> oh hey, that example code now works!
2019-11-22T01:57:33 < Spirit532> wonder what caused it to not work before...
2019-11-22T01:57:50 < Spirit532> well, that solves this issue, I'm nnnnnot touching that
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2019-11-22T02:04:25 < qyx> mhm how are you supposed to control that stspin thing
2019-11-22T02:04:39 < qyx> no can
2019-11-22T02:05:34 < qyx> lets check how much is a discrete 3ph gate driver
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2019-11-22T02:11:50 < sync> qyx: rs422
2019-11-22T02:12:37 < kakipr0> qyx: https://drive.google.com/file/d/1gO1xc6pzdW3PAYIR9EFzQOO4RrB46jGO/view?usp=sharing
2019-11-22T02:13:23 < kakipr0> almost all of that stuff needs to go above the connectors
2019-11-22T02:15:08 < kakipr0> voltage regulators are not yet on schematic but those go under the connector level so no probs
2019-11-22T02:15:55 < qyx> drv8323rs <3
2019-11-22T02:27:44 < Cracki> nice
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2019-11-22T02:36:18 < kakipr0> ethernet jack directed to inwards kinda nasty
2019-11-22T02:36:48 < kakipr0> needs routed hole under it and some sort of lip system to lift the locking pin
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2019-11-22T02:43:19 < Spirit532> right, I am back
2019-11-22T02:43:22 < Spirit532> internet just dropped
2019-11-22T02:43:43 < Spirit532> I have the PWM timers working correctly, now I need to learn how 3 phase motor commutation works
2019-11-22T02:44:26 < kakipr0> EZ
2019-11-22T02:58:44 < Cracki> sines, 120 degrees apart
2019-11-22T03:01:23 < Cracki> for starters, use sin(desired angle + 0/120/240 deg phase for coil) * some duty cycle and set CCRs
2019-11-22T03:01:32 < Cracki> that's without current control
2019-11-22T03:02:35 < Cracki> current control might involve some dacs instead to set current levels, and analog comparators that cut off voltage when set current has been reached
2019-11-22T03:03:04 < Cracki> (and something repeatedly turns voltage on to maintain it)
2019-11-22T03:11:47 < kakipr0> is it normal to have gnd line with can or not?
2019-11-22T03:12:17 < kakipr0> never used can for anything
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2019-11-22T03:37:01 < Spirit532> Cracki, I figured out what was wrong
2019-11-22T03:37:09 < Cracki> do tell
2019-11-22T03:37:10 < Spirit532> and have made an actual CubeMX setup for the STSPIN32
2019-11-22T03:37:53 < Spirit532> https://i.spirit.re/Y5iHr.png
2019-11-22T03:37:55 < Spirit532> this is the right way to do it
2019-11-22T03:38:05 < Spirit532> ALSO
2019-11-22T03:38:11 < Spirit532> you have to call HAL_TIMEx_PWMN_Start as well
2019-11-22T03:38:24 < Spirit532> because you have to force the negative channel to start
2019-11-22T03:38:47 < Spirit532> HAL_TIM_PWM_Start only enables the positive channel, which the STSPIN32, I assume, detects as a catastrophic fault condition
2019-11-22T03:38:53 < Spirit532> and the gate driver shuts off
2019-11-22T03:40:10 < Spirit532> as a funny side effect, you can easily determine the dead time if you run the system without a load, because the bootstrap cap stays charged exactly for %deadtime% before the low side switches on
2019-11-22T03:40:23 < Cracki> hmhmmm negative channel
2019-11-22T03:40:30 < Spirit532> mhm
2019-11-22T03:40:55 < Spirit532> https://i.spirit.re/ak4WI.txt
2019-11-22T03:41:04 < Spirit532> this completely turns on the gate driver and outputs PWM
2019-11-22T03:41:25 < Cracki> noice
2019-11-22T03:42:37 < Spirit532> I'll opensource this eventually, once I can actually control a motor
2019-11-22T03:46:04 < Spirit532> and the rest of it is properly configured
2019-11-22T03:46:05 < Spirit532> https://i.spirit.re/efcXG.png
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2019-11-22T03:55:47 < kakipr0> null>
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2019-11-22T04:01:35 < Spirit532> huh, that's really odd
2019-11-22T04:01:44 < Spirit532> now I'm getting weird "runt" pulses
2019-11-22T04:06:05 < Spirit532> ah, that was because of the break input being enabled
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2019-11-22T04:15:40 < bitmask> hmm, do I discharge these cells to 3.8V until the eyelets arrive or do I just hope they arrive tomorrow
2019-11-22T04:17:24 < kakinull> why discharge?
2019-11-22T04:17:28 < kakinull> from what voltage?
2019-11-22T04:17:48 < bitmask> 4.2, you are supposed to store lipos at 3.8
2019-11-22T04:17:57 < bitmask> otherwise they get damaged
2019-11-22T04:18:02 < Spirit532> they don't
2019-11-22T04:18:05 < BrainDamage> wrong
2019-11-22T04:18:11 < bitmask> umm, ive read that everywhere
2019-11-22T04:18:12 < Spirit532> they degrade faster, but they don't get damaged
2019-11-22T04:18:20 < bitmask> well thats damage in my book
2019-11-22T04:18:24 < BrainDamage> in fact, storing batteries at low voltage puts them at higher risk
2019-11-22T04:18:27 < Spirit532> they're always degrading
2019-11-22T04:18:31 < Spirit532> regardless of voltage
2019-11-22T04:18:35 < BrainDamage> once they go undervolt, they're to be trashed
2019-11-22T04:18:35 < Spirit532> max charge just makes it a bit faster
2019-11-22T04:18:44 < Spirit532> BrainDamage, 3.8 is storage voltage for lipos
2019-11-22T04:18:45 < bitmask> if they degrade faster at full voltage how are you arguing with me, ridiculous
2019-11-22T04:18:55 < kakinull> are you thinking that one day matters bitmask?
2019-11-22T04:19:05 < Spirit532> because if you discharge them for a few days and then charge them up back to full, you'll do more damage
2019-11-22T04:19:11 < bitmask> no but I dont know if they are actually going to arrive tomorrow, could be a week for all I know
2019-11-22T04:19:41 < bitmask> could be a month actually, I dont know when I'll need the batteries
2019-11-22T04:19:51 < bitmask> I dont even have all the parts for the project yet
2019-11-22T04:19:53 < kakinull> but why you have them in full voltage anyway?
2019-11-22T04:20:04 < bitmask> I was testing them, I was curious
2019-11-22T04:20:16 < bitmask> checking capacity
2019-11-22T04:21:06 < BrainDamage> you can leave them a full month at full capacity and you'll get no significant capacity loss
2019-11-22T04:21:28 < BrainDamage> even a year at full charge will yield to a couple of percent of capacity loss
2019-11-22T04:22:01 < BrainDamage> tldr: you're overthinking this and just cargo culting
2019-11-22T04:22:11 < bitmask> heh ok
2019-11-22T04:23:13 < BrainDamage> other conditions such as deep discharge or storage temp will be just as relevant if you start concerning about couple % difference
2019-11-22T04:23:45 < bitmask> well I read 20% at 25-30C in a year, and 20% at 70c in 3 months
2019-11-22T04:24:05 < bitmask> still I guess not worth worrying about
2019-11-22T04:24:27 < BrainDamage> temp impacts capacity loss expontentially, but that 20% is overstated
2019-11-22T04:24:37 < kakinull> yeah who came up with those numbers was smoking something
2019-11-22T04:24:50 < kakinull> or it's really old info
2019-11-22T04:24:53 < bitmask> could be
2019-11-22T04:24:58 < bitmask> thats what I was thinking
2019-11-22T04:25:01 < kakinull> like 90's stuff
2019-11-22T04:25:25 < kakinull> when panasonic or who ever came up with lipo cells for handheld devices
2019-11-22T04:25:34 < BrainDamage> I have a phone that has a battery that's now 9 years old
2019-11-22T04:25:41 < BrainDamage> it lost 50% of the capacity
2019-11-22T04:26:31 < kakinull> phones push those cells to slight overvoltage
2019-11-22T04:26:56 < BrainDamage> or my laptop lost 18% of the capacity in 2.5 years, and it's always plugged in except for once a month where I give it a discharge cycle to calibrate the fuel gauge
2019-11-22T04:28:13 < BrainDamage> ( and it gets pretty toasty )
2019-11-22T04:34:46 < bitmask> oh nice, they finished the stencil, now everything is ready and its waiting for pickup
2019-11-22T04:39:29 < Spirit532> Cracki, you sort of forgot in your sin suggestion that these servos generally have more than a monopole setup
2019-11-22T04:39:56 < Spirit532> the one I have for example has 4 poles, each cycle only moving the rotor around a quarter of the way
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2019-11-22T05:34:04 < ColdKeyboard> Does anyone know where or how to find a datasheet for this -> https://www.aliexpress.com/item/32727394511.html ?
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2019-11-22T06:29:25 < aandrew> ColdKeyboard: contact the seller?
2019-11-22T06:31:11 < ColdKeyboard> They sent me useless PNG...
2019-11-22T06:32:51 < aandrew> awesome
2019-11-22T06:36:08 < dongs> ColdKeyboard: what do you actually want to know?
2019-11-22T06:36:17 < dongs> i mean the png is already there?
2019-11-22T06:42:13 <@englishman> so what do you think of cybertruck dongs
2019-11-22T06:42:38 < dongs> cyberwhat
2019-11-22T06:42:40 < dongs> i donno? waht is it
2019-11-22T06:42:51 < dongs> oh tesla shit
2019-11-22T06:42:55 <@englishman> https://www.tesla.com/cybertruck
2019-11-22T06:43:00 < dongs> are they gonna make interior look according to the price?
2019-11-22T06:43:11 < dongs> This page isn’t workingIf the problem continues, contact the site owner.
2019-11-22T06:43:11 < dongs> HTTP ERROR 429
2019-11-22T06:43:27 <@englishman> website running on a TEGRA
2019-11-22T06:43:30 <@englishman> probably
2019-11-22T06:43:46 <@englishman> worksonmymachine tho
2019-11-22T06:51:04 < dongs> works now
2019-11-22T06:51:59 <@englishman> how many did you order
2019-11-22T06:52:16 < dongs> zero, wait does it have a fucking solar panel on teh back
2019-11-22T06:52:27 < dongs> oh god the interior
2019-11-22T06:52:29 < dongs> page closed
2019-11-22T06:52:50 < dongs> that fucking 24" lcd
2019-11-22T06:54:00 <@englishman> they made an atv too
2019-11-22T06:54:31 <@englishman> which is more interesting imo but it looked like some basic chink trash
2019-11-22T06:55:33 < dongs> you already had it for a few years
2019-11-22T06:55:38 < dongs> with porlly a better battery :)
2019-11-22T06:56:24 <@englishman> ya
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2019-11-22T08:55:54 < jadew> is that car targeted at those people who get to colonize mars?
2019-11-22T08:56:44 < jadew> "It will wait for you on Mars. Get yours now!"
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2019-11-22T09:04:54 < jadew> why is it so cheap?
2019-11-22T09:05:42 < jadew> the interior looks like a box
2019-11-22T09:05:59 < jadew> could be useful tho
2019-11-22T09:06:48 < jadew> because you could put your food and coffee on that dashboard, while the car is driving you to wherever you have to be
2019-11-22T09:07:56 < jadew> what's RWD and AWD?
2019-11-22T09:13:59 < dongs> all wheel drive / rear wheel drive
2019-11-22T09:14:25 < jadew> thanks
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2019-11-22T12:27:37 < Thorn> I do not get this shit
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2019-11-22T12:30:10 < Thorn> I assembled my board with l476 on it, trying to connect to the mcu via j-link. CLI prints 'Data: 0' in response to the connect command. ozone connects just fine, there's the whole story about sw-dp, cortex core etc. in its log window that you normally see in the CLI when it connects to a target
2019-11-22T12:30:37 < qyx> so far so good, no?
2019-11-22T12:31:06 < qyx> is the Data: 0 problematic?
2019-11-22T12:31:19 < Thorn> well I'd like to at least do make flash without using ozone
2019-11-22T12:31:33 < Thorn> I've no idea, I don't have an image to flash yet
2019-11-22T12:31:41 < Thorn> but it does not look good at all
2019-11-22T12:37:48 < karlp> you could make a miniblink for it pretty esaily by adding a new line here: https://github.com/libopencm3/libopencm3-miniblink/blob/master/boards.stm32.mk#L143-L146
2019-11-22T12:37:55 < karlp> that would give you something to flash
2019-11-22T12:39:35 < jpa-> sometimes some programmers have problems with empty devices
2019-11-22T12:40:09 < Thorn> I tried to flash an image from another (l0) project, it failed to flash (probably wrong ramcode) but it did identify the device
2019-11-22T12:40:36 < Thorn> so I may be in luck
2019-11-22T12:44:20 < Thorn> spacewalk live https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sIpjW-KUcEA
2019-11-22T12:45:10 < Thorn> both bq24296m and mp2155gq seems to work fine, that's good news
2019-11-22T12:45:20 < Thorn> *seem
2019-11-22T13:54:52 < Cracki> Spirit532, number of poles is separate from how an electrical revolution looks like, and that's still three coils thus 120 degrees apart
2019-11-22T13:55:19 < Cracki> I consider number of poles to be "gearing"
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2019-11-22T14:19:21 < mawk> apparently I lived in dutchland up to 2014
2019-11-22T14:19:36 < mawk> or else I feel into a bureucratic nightmare hole
2019-11-22T14:23:05 < qyx> wtf cybertruck
2019-11-22T14:35:05 < Mangy_Dog> im not entirely against it
2019-11-22T14:35:12 < Mangy_Dog> some aspects i like
2019-11-22T14:38:04 < Cracki> reflects radar
2019-11-22T14:38:25 < Cracki> includes all the gear for wardriving
2019-11-22T14:38:47 < Cracki> dash tablet's color scheme is green on black
2019-11-22T14:39:26 < Cracki> the engine makes a matrix-like sound so you aren't surprised by it sneaking up on you
2019-11-22T14:40:28 < Cracki> it can do sharp 90 degree angles so you can literally drive like in tron
2019-11-22T14:42:16 <@englishman> qyx: how many did you preorder
2019-11-22T14:43:30 <@englishman> pretty disappointing that it didn't come on stage towing a falcon 9
2019-11-22T14:56:30 < qyx> it is awful
2019-11-22T14:58:05 < qyx> I mean its appearance
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2019-11-22T15:14:27 < Cracki> it's a meme
2019-11-22T15:14:45 < Cracki> a meme people pay 100 bucks to preorder
2019-11-22T15:15:02 < Cracki> I hope he's just selling that thing as a toy and 100 bucks is full price
2019-11-22T15:20:26 < kakinull> yes
2019-11-22T15:22:29 <@englishman> it finally happened
2019-11-22T15:22:39 <@englishman> digging around for a micro usb cable and can't find one
2019-11-22T15:22:41 <@englishman> only usbc
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2019-11-22T15:22:55 < zyp> nice
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2019-11-22T15:27:28 < Cracki> why do stock markets still have open and close. that's so arbitrary.
2019-11-22T15:27:42 < Cracki> as if bankers still stood on the floor and shouted out orders
2019-11-22T15:29:21 < Cracki> the thing vaguely looks like an amphibian vehicle
2019-11-22T15:29:36 < Cracki> I wonder if it would float
2019-11-22T15:31:24 < Thorn> muh m@d JST sk1llz
2019-11-22T15:31:27 < Cracki> it's a gamer's pickup
2019-11-22T15:32:28 < Thorn> spent over an hour crimping 2 cables, one 5 contacts, another 3
2019-11-22T15:34:10 < Cracki> i know! they'll sell those cybertrucks as tow trucks!
2019-11-22T15:34:41 < Cracki> reversing the situation when EVs are dead on the road and you can't simply refuel them but you have to tow them
2019-11-22T15:37:17 < Thorn> mount a generator in a pickup truck
2019-11-22T15:37:25 < Cracki> that's what is done.
2019-11-22T15:37:25 < Thorn> mobile charging station
2019-11-22T15:37:51 < Cracki> how about we say fuck you to batteries and simply install nuclear reactors
2019-11-22T15:38:59 < BrainDamage> ford nucleon
2019-11-22T15:39:11 < Cracki> people will throw pokeballs at it
2019-11-22T15:40:57 < Cracki> hm so that cybercyber... I wonder if it has a crumble zone at all. they say it's designed like an airplane, hard shell and no traditional chassis
2019-11-22T15:52:55 < Steffanx> Lolwut mawk ?
2019-11-22T15:53:07 < karlp> crumple zones are for the week, as long as you're stronger than the rest, the other vehicles become your crumple zone.
2019-11-22T15:53:51 <@englishman> that thing is def crumpling a bunch of shit before it gets crumpled
2019-11-22T15:54:10 <@englishman> when the crumplee becomes the crumpler
2019-11-22T15:54:32 < mawk> that's what delft gemeente said Steffanx 
2019-11-22T15:54:34 < mawk> that I was living here until 2014
2019-11-22T15:54:51 < mawk> and they say they can't change it and it's permanent record
2019-11-22T16:03:29 < Steffanx> Lolwut. 
2019-11-22T16:04:18 < Steffanx> How can they even have such record
2019-11-22T16:14:16 < Cracki> crumpet zone
2019-11-22T16:14:42 < Cracki> crumpet circus
2019-11-22T16:17:04 < qyx> mawk: and have you lived there?
2019-11-22T16:28:56 < mawk> no qyx
2019-11-22T16:28:58 < Steffanx> He has a secret twin brother
2019-11-22T16:29:01 < mawk> I never left Paris
2019-11-22T16:29:12 < mawk> because I lived in Diemen 23 years ago Steffanx 
2019-11-22T16:29:28 < mawk> but why would they say I left in 2014, that I don't know
2019-11-22T16:30:09 < Steffanx> Your dad moved around?
2019-11-22T16:30:15 < Steffanx> Your mom?
2019-11-22T16:30:20 < tomeaton17> Rotary encoder 2
2019-11-22T16:30:27 < tomeaton17> sorry
2019-11-22T16:32:44 < Cracki> weird movie rec
2019-11-22T16:33:34 < tomeaton17> haha
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2019-11-22T16:48:38 < mawk> my dad yes Steffanx 
2019-11-22T16:48:50 < mawk> maybe that triggered something in the system
2019-11-22T16:54:05 < Steffanx> Not impossible
2019-11-22T16:54:25 < Steffanx> If you lived in dutchland and never told le dutch you moved...
2019-11-22T16:54:52 < Steffanx> And that's something your parents have to do (obviously)
2019-11-22T16:55:05 < karlp> hooray for ldl1117
2019-11-22T16:55:13 < karlp> like 1117, just no longer 4-10mA Iq.
2019-11-22T16:55:19 < karlp> and no longer 1.1V dropout.
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2019-11-22T16:56:24 < karlp> I mean, it's _THREE TIMES_ the price of the cheapest one on lcsc, but 9c vs 3c is ok I reckon.
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2019-11-22T19:31:24 < Ultrasauce> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LydP_8izR9Q today's musicspam
2019-11-22T19:31:32 < Ultrasauce> sup upgrdman
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2019-11-22T19:35:53 < karlp> here, this one is for you Ultrasauce https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yaZIZ_jDX2I
2019-11-22T19:40:55 < Ultrasauce> ooh nice
2019-11-22T19:42:43 < kakipr0> what is a name for logic part that inverts if control input is set to request invert for signal?
2019-11-22T19:43:21 <@englishman> xor
2019-11-22T19:43:32 < kakipr0> :o
2019-11-22T19:44:42 < kakipr0> indeed
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2019-11-22T19:45:49 <@englishman> kakipro indeed
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2019-11-22T19:47:02 < kakipr0> 1T86 then
2019-11-22T19:49:42 < mawk> lol
2019-11-22T19:50:52 < upgrdman> Ultrasauce, im good. sup with you?
2019-11-22T19:51:18 < Ultrasauce> ohh the usual
2019-11-22T19:51:20 < Ultrasauce> innovation
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2019-11-22T22:06:03 < Steffanx> is it a issue somehow they think you were in dutchland all this time, mawk?
2019-11-22T22:06:45 < Steffanx> It's funny though, since you should've had a shitload of other issues if they thought you were.
2019-11-22T22:08:34 < Steffanx> First of all the compulsory education till you're 18 (or finished a certain level of education)
2019-11-22T22:09:27 < qyx> in .sk we have such level of mess I would not be surprised if they forget something like this
2019-11-22T22:12:27 < Steffanx> yes, but .sk :P
2019-11-22T22:14:31 < Steffanx> imagine the effort it takes to split up a country
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2019-11-22T22:18:52  * catphish just got back from dutch
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2019-11-22T22:20:15 < Steffanx> what catphish?
2019-11-22T22:20:35 < Steffanx> Dont forget Amsterdam is not the netherlands.
2019-11-22T22:20:43 < catphish> i spent the week in AMS, just got back
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2019-11-22T22:22:38 < catphish> technically it is
2019-11-22T22:23:06 < catphish> i can check a map if necessary
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2019-11-22T22:23:50 < catphish> although i must ask, does NL have places that feel less like they're just UK+cannabis?
2019-11-22T22:24:23 < catphish> oh, stroopwafel though, that's good shit
2019-11-22T22:26:29 < Steffanx> Technically yes, but thats where it ends as well.
2019-11-22T22:26:48 < Steffanx> everywhere but amsterdam catphish :P
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2019-11-22T22:27:05 < Steffanx> amsterdam is just for tourists nowadays
2019-11-22T22:27:24 < Steffanx> and drugs
2019-11-22T22:27:25 < catphish> Steffanx: i was honestly a bit disappointed by the "culture"
2019-11-22T22:27:37 < effractur> yea just everything expect amsterdam
2019-11-22T22:27:54 < catphish> but i guess that's the same of most modern capitals, it's not a way i usually go on vacation
2019-11-22T22:28:11 < effractur> but the outskirts of adam are still somewhat ok
2019-11-22T22:29:13 < Steffanx> Try delft, mawk loves delft :P
2019-11-22T22:29:26 < mawk> yes
2019-11-22T22:29:42 < effractur> mhe delft 
2019-11-22T22:31:43 < Steffanx> ive never been there, so cant judge
2019-11-22T22:31:48 < catphish> i'll go back to .be next time, similar feel, less toueisty
2019-11-22T22:32:12 < Steffanx> you cant judge dutchland by just visiting amsterdam sir :P
2019-11-22T22:32:21 < catphish> yeah, i probably shouldn't
2019-11-22T22:32:21 < Steffanx> where in belgianland were you?
2019-11-22T22:33:10 < effractur> den haag is nice
2019-11-22T22:33:20 < catphish> well a few years ago i did a motorbike trip up the coast, calais, bruges, across those .nl islands, and up to AMS
2019-11-22T22:33:41 < catphish> stayed in bruges which was lovely, and NL was too, apart from AMS
2019-11-22T22:34:17 < catphish> but was mostly on the road, so didn't get much done realy
2019-11-22T22:34:48 < catphish> maybe next time i'll drive, and head somewhere more rural
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2019-11-22T22:37:14 < Thorn> he can stick his submarine where it hurts https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wfG0cmRzwrY
2019-11-22T22:40:08 < Steffanx> try visiting brussels and then judge belgianland by that city.
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2019-11-22T22:42:31 < catphish> Steffanx: well i think i'll avoid capitals for a while, though honestly, i enjoyed paris more
2019-11-22T22:43:28 < Steffanx> but paris is huuuuge much easier to avoid the traditional places
2019-11-22T22:43:58 < catphish> indeed, similar thing with london, more corners to choose from i guess
2019-11-22T22:44:26 < catphish> anyway, think i'll stick to rural getaways for a while
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2019-11-22T22:45:54 < Steffanx> try north dutchland and enjoy the flatland :P
2019-11-22T22:46:46 < Steffanx> but with you bike better avoid dutchland. unless you like to only drive 100km/h max.
2019-11-22T22:48:29 < catphish> can't i just ignore that like everywhere?
2019-11-22T22:48:43 < Steffanx> no.
2019-11-22T22:48:48 < Steffanx> unless you like speeding tickets
2019-11-22T22:48:58 < catphish> much speed cameras?
2019-11-22T22:49:02 < Steffanx> nah
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2019-11-22T22:49:27 < Steffanx> im still curious how they are going to get it fixed. lowering the max speed everywhere to 100km/h not at night. then its 130
2019-11-22T22:49:33 < catphish> i don't recall paying any attention to the limits last time i visited
2019-11-22T22:50:02 < catphish> it's pretty hard to stick to 60mph on my bike :(
2019-11-22T22:50:43 < Steffanx> did you see 130 and go: ooh the limit is 130mph cool 
2019-11-22T22:51:09 < catphish> no, but that sounds like a good excuse if i run into any police :)
2019-11-22T23:23:48 < steve> lol, std::get_money().  If only it worked...
2019-11-22T23:31:32 < qyx> no worky?
2019-11-22T23:32:44 < qyx> Steffanx: for all cars or only for bikers?
2019-11-22T23:33:08 < qyx> we have some highways which are 110 between 5:00-19:00, 130 otherwise
2019-11-22T23:33:38 < Cracki> what's the thinking behind that
2019-11-22T23:33:51 < qyx> too many cars during the day
2019-11-22T23:34:02 < Cracki> more people on the road, let's lower chances of accident?
2019-11-22T23:34:08 < qyx> probably
2019-11-22T23:34:32 < qyx> but in the night you can go 150+
2019-11-22T23:34:38 < qyx> nobody on the road
2019-11-22T23:35:04 < Cracki> allowed or tolerated?
2019-11-22T23:35:36 < qyx> no police, mostly
2019-11-22T23:35:44 < qyx> and we have only a few static radars
2019-11-22T23:35:51 < qyx> *stationary
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2019-11-22T23:49:59 < kakipr0> Ultrasauce: good musics
2019-11-22T23:55:13 < Steffanx> Both, qyx. 
2019-11-22T23:55:48 < Steffanx> Because NOx emission. It's a joke (it's real, but looks like a joke)
2019-11-22T23:56:31 < Steffanx> Dont forget to say "imho" kakipr0  ;)
2019-11-22T23:56:40 < kakipr0> no sir
2019-11-22T23:56:48 < kakipr0> good musics is good
2019-11-22T23:57:07 < Steffanx> I wasnt too impressed
2019-11-22T23:58:58 < karlp> got allll the diff pairs backwards: https://imgur.com/a/6QD5yRI
2019-11-22T23:59:34 < Thorn> my l476 is feeling good
2019-11-22T23:59:50 < Steffanx> Lol karlp 
--- Day changed Sat Nov 23 2019
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2019-11-23T00:02:44 < karlp> Steffanx: yeah, like, whateves, just fast ethernet and usb, shit'll be fine :)
2019-11-23T00:02:50 < Thorn> lol I know why I was getting that 'Data: 0'
2019-11-23T00:03:51 < Thorn> 'c' is not an alias for 'connect'
2019-11-23T00:07:34 < Steffanx> The other board/side is already something fixed karlp?
2019-11-23T00:07:50 < karlp> both sides yes.
2019-11-23T00:08:05 < Steffanx> Ay
2019-11-23T00:08:05 < Thorn> are these the most recent SVDs? https://github.com/posborne/cmsis-svd/tree/master/data/STMicro
2019-11-23T00:08:30 < Steffanx> srk:  is the svd guy
2019-11-23T00:08:39 < karlp> https://imgur.com/a/RCnIdIF
2019-11-23T00:08:58 < karlp> Thorn: you can get the svds out of the pile of crud that cube downloads thhese days
2019-11-23T00:09:08 < karlp> depends whose "fixes" you want on them ;)
2019-11-23T00:09:36 < Thorn> I searched for *.svd, *.xml etc. in my cube repo dir, nothing
2019-11-23T00:09:43 < kakipr0> karlp: what dat?
2019-11-23T00:09:52 < Thorn> well lots of xml files but they're not svds
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2019-11-23T00:13:47 < Thorn> st.com/en/microcontrollers-microprocessors/stm32l4x6.html#resource -> HW Model, CAD Libraries & SVD 
2019-11-23T00:14:08 < Thorn> seems to be the official answer
2019-11-23T00:16:37 < Steffanx> But you perhaps want the fixes some did
2019-11-23T00:16:52 < Steffanx> ST ain't perfect
2019-11-23T00:18:17 < Thorn> yeah that would be great of course
2019-11-23T00:18:34 < Thorn> I remember making some fixes to lpc824 svds myself
2019-11-23T00:21:52 < aandrew> ff
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2019-11-23T01:31:07 < karlp> I don't really get why the first pcb is $2 on jlc and hte second is then $4, but whatevs, ordered two pcbs 
2019-11-23T01:31:12 < karlp> productivity yay or something
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2019-11-23T01:34:13 < Spirit532> Cracki, srk - I have it working, though since it's not a regular 3 phase induction motor, there's a lot of math that needs to happen to get the motor to actually spin
2019-11-23T01:34:27 < Cracki> oh?
2019-11-23T01:34:51 < Spirit532> https://i.spirit.re/tY2mm.webm
2019-11-23T01:34:59 < Spirit532> here's what a full "360 degree" sine generation does
2019-11-23T01:35:17 < Spirit532> it's a 4(8?) pole motor, with this kind of arrangement
2019-11-23T01:35:17 < Spirit532> https://i.spirit.re/T2Sh6.png
2019-11-23T01:35:23 < Cracki> lol
2019-11-23T01:35:34 < qyx> are you doing induction with 45V driver?
2019-11-23T01:35:42 < Spirit532> what
2019-11-23T01:36:06 < qyx> you used the stspin, didn't you?
2019-11-23T01:36:12 < Cracki> is that movement supposed to jerk back?
2019-11-23T01:36:20 < Spirit532> Cracki, yeah, going from 0 to 360 and then snapping to 0
2019-11-23T01:36:26 < Cracki> properly, it should just continue on
2019-11-23T01:36:31 < Spirit532> that's the issue
2019-11-23T01:36:40 < Cracki> then you're doing it wrong, or that's a very strange motor
2019-11-23T01:36:44 < Cracki> it's a bldc, yes?
2019-11-23T01:36:44 < Spirit532> I think this IS how it's supposed to work
2019-11-23T01:36:48 < Cracki> nah
2019-11-23T01:36:53 < Spirit532> see that graphic
2019-11-23T01:37:01 < Cracki> it's like a stepper, except three coils instead of two
2019-11-23T01:37:01 < Spirit532> it's got four "poles" where it does that
2019-11-23T01:37:06 < Spirit532> sometimes it jumps 
2019-11-23T01:37:09 < Cracki> not sure what the graphic means
2019-11-23T01:37:14 < Cracki> fuck the poles
2019-11-23T01:37:23 < Cracki> electrical revolution is all you need to worry about
2019-11-23T01:37:26 < qyx> so what kid of motor is it
2019-11-23T01:37:27 < Cracki> poles are gearing
2019-11-23T01:37:35 < Spirit532> it's a 3 phase motor
2019-11-23T01:37:41 < qyx> 3 phase what
2019-11-23T01:37:45 < qyx> permanent magnet
2019-11-23T01:37:47 < qyx> induction
2019-11-23T01:37:54 < Cracki> prolly bldc
2019-11-23T01:38:13 < qyx> yeah I am asking because I haven't seen such low voltage induction async motor yet
2019-11-23T01:38:20 < Spirit532> it's not induction, no
2019-11-23T01:38:27 < qyx> oh you said that
2019-11-23T01:38:30 < Spirit532> it's permanent magnet, but I'm not sure if it's PMSM or BLDC
2019-11-23T01:38:31 < qyx> thats why I am asking
2019-11-23T01:38:47 < Cracki> show me your step sequence
2019-11-23T01:38:52 < Spirit532> it's this guy
2019-11-23T01:38:53 < Spirit532> https://www.robotdigg.com/product/1232/24V-4000RPM-42BLS-BLDC-Motor
2019-11-23T01:38:58 < qyx> or maybe I am not reading with enough understanding
2019-11-23T01:39:03 < Cracki> i.e. what voltages you apply to the three leads in what sequence
2019-11-23T01:39:05 < Spirit532> Cracki, no step sequence
2019-11-23T01:39:10 < Cracki> wat
2019-11-23T01:39:22 < Cracki> scope view then, or something approaching it?
2019-11-23T01:39:24 < Spirit532> phase 1, 2, 3 = sin(+0, +120, +240)
2019-11-23T01:39:29 < Cracki> yes
2019-11-23T01:39:43 < Cracki> but remember, negative doesn't exist
2019-11-23T01:39:51 < Spirit532> yes, I've accounted for that
2019-11-23T01:39:56 < qyx> also
2019-11-23T01:39:58 < Spirit532> it's offset by half the output
2019-11-23T01:40:03 < Spirit532> it goes negative and positive
2019-11-23T01:40:13 < qyx> bldcs are driven with trapezoidal current, arent they?
2019-11-23T01:40:13 < Cracki> after one electrical revolution, all phase currents are again what they started as
2019-11-23T01:40:23 < Cracki> and when you repeat that sequence, it keeps moving in the same direction
2019-11-23T01:40:23 < Spirit532> yes
2019-11-23T01:40:25 < Spirit532> no
2019-11-23T01:40:26 < Cracki> the jump back is WEIRD
2019-11-23T01:40:30 < Spirit532> yes
2019-11-23T01:40:31 < Cracki> not no, yes
2019-11-23T01:40:38 < Spirit532> when I repeat the sequence, it jumps back
2019-11-23T01:40:44 < Cracki> trapezoidal or sinus
2019-11-23T01:40:45 < Spirit532> if I repeat it fast enough, inertia keeps it going
2019-11-23T01:40:59 < Cracki> trapezoidal isn't theoretically perfect but works
2019-11-23T01:40:59 < qyx> it cannot jump back with 3 phases
2019-11-23T01:41:07 < Spirit532> that's the issue
2019-11-23T01:41:12 < Cracki> Spirit532, then you must be missing something in the sequence
2019-11-23T01:41:16 < Spirit532> either they sent me a 3 phase stepper motor
2019-11-23T01:41:20 < Cracki> because it wouldn't jump back after a full cycle
2019-11-23T01:41:25 < Spirit532> or this is just wrong 
2019-11-23T01:41:28 < Cracki> you have less than half a cycle if it jumps back
2019-11-23T01:41:32 < Cracki> yes, it must be wrong
2019-11-23T01:42:06 < Cracki> there are 3-phase steppers with crazy pole count, higher than ordinary two-phase, but yours isn't that
2019-11-23T01:42:20 < Spirit532> yeah it definitely feels very rough
2019-11-23T01:42:22 < qyx> it dhoulf work with such stepper too
2019-11-23T01:42:24 < Cracki> it's a bdlc
2019-11-23T01:42:27 < Cracki> *bldc
2019-11-23T01:42:39 < Spirit532> see that graphic
2019-11-23T01:42:49 < Cracki> I think steppers are configured as triangle or pentagram (5phase exist)
2019-11-23T01:42:54 < Cracki> bldc like star topology
2019-11-23T01:43:05 < Spirit532> if I put the shaft anywhere on the zones marked "X" and apply power, it snaps back to the nearest quadrant
2019-11-23T01:43:07 < Cracki> the ancient 5phase steppers I have are pentagon
2019-11-23T01:43:26 < Cracki> if it snaps back and you have four resting positions, that's four-pole
2019-11-23T01:43:35 < Cracki> so an electrical revolution is 90 degrees mechanical
2019-11-23T01:43:43 < Spirit532> that's exactly what happens
2019-11-23T01:43:54 < Cracki> electrical meaning full cycle of all three phases
2019-11-23T01:43:55 < Spirit532> except it doesn't go to the next position since there's this "hump"
2019-11-23T01:43:58 < Spirit532> yep
2019-11-23T01:44:00 < Cracki> uh
2019-11-23T01:44:06 < Spirit532> full cycle of all three phases sin(0-360)
2019-11-23T01:44:07 < Cracki> can you show any facts
2019-11-23T01:44:16 < Spirit532> I can feel said "hump" by hand
2019-11-23T01:44:20 < Cracki> I'm thinking you aren't going 360 degrees, prolly less than 180
2019-11-23T01:44:23 < Cracki> prolly 90
2019-11-23T01:44:34 < Cracki> or you've hooked the wires up wrong
2019-11-23T01:44:40 < qyx> how
2019-11-23T01:44:40 < Cracki> measure dc coil resistances
2019-11-23T01:44:44 < qyx> 3 wires?
2019-11-23T01:44:46 < Cracki> they should be single ohms
2019-11-23T01:44:54 < Cracki> do you have 3 wires? or more?
2019-11-23T01:45:00 < Spirit532> all I'm doing is a macro to convert angle to radians, then passing that into sin() from math
2019-11-23T01:45:01 < Spirit532> 3
2019-11-23T01:45:06 < Cracki> show code
2019-11-23T01:45:21 < Spirit532> #define sinDeg(x) sin((x) * M_PI / 180.0)
2019-11-23T01:45:44 < Spirit532> pu = HF_TIM1_ARR/2 + (int)(sinDegrees(ang + 0)*power);
2019-11-23T01:45:48 < Spirit532> same goes for v, w
2019-11-23T01:46:01 < Cracki> ang goes 0..360?
2019-11-23T01:46:03 < Spirit532> yes
2019-11-23T01:46:23 < Cracki> you need to probe those coil currents or whatever voltage they get driven with
2019-11-23T01:46:30 < Spirit532> it lines up
2019-11-23T01:46:47 < Spirit532> I'm putting pu, pv, pw directly into TIM1->CCR1,2,3
2019-11-23T01:46:57 < Spirit532> and that timer config is the ONLY way it powers up
2019-11-23T01:47:00 < Cracki> in the video, the tape brushes over something that can't be more than 45 degrees
2019-11-23T01:47:12 < Spirit532> it's a little less
2019-11-23T01:47:17 < Spirit532> 45-hum
2019-11-23T01:47:19 < Spirit532> hump*
2019-11-23T01:47:34 < Spirit532> I also logged the output
2019-11-23T01:47:37 < Cracki> make it move back and forth, 0..360..0
2019-11-23T01:47:49 < Cracki> in a loop with no delays after each loop
2019-11-23T01:47:49 < Spirit532> https://i.spirit.re/mvT7J.txt
2019-11-23T01:48:11 < Spirit532> no delays after each loop
2019-11-23T01:48:21 < Spirit532> ok let's see
2019-11-23T01:48:48 < Cracki> i wanna see if the pause it did is intentional or a bug
2019-11-23T01:49:33 < Cracki> that table of phase duty cycles looks just fine
2019-11-23T01:51:20 < Cracki> only thing that could gimp this is a typo or a wiring mistake
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2019-11-23T01:52:06 < Cracki> you need tools to look at drive voltages or coil currents. you can do that with a shit ass multimeter, if you make it move through the phase sequence very slowly
2019-11-23T01:52:32 < Cracki> just eyeballing it, or even "singlestepping" in 30 degree increments, and checking if the voltages/currents make sense
2019-11-23T01:52:41 < Cracki> *30deg elec.
2019-11-23T01:54:19 < Spirit532> this is what it does
2019-11-23T01:54:20 < Spirit532> https://i.spirit.re/79R5s.webm
2019-11-23T01:54:26 < Spirit532> no delays, two for loops back to back
2019-11-23T01:54:41 < Spirit532> this might have a bit to do with the frequency and deadtime
2019-11-23T01:55:40 < Cracki> I say wiring is wrong
2019-11-23T01:55:55 < Cracki> can only speculate. no clue what this could be.
2019-11-23T01:56:10 < Spirit532> there's only three wires
2019-11-23T01:56:12 < Cracki> I think i still see some pause in that motion sequence.
2019-11-23T01:56:18 < Cracki> run it about 10 times slower?
2019-11-23T01:56:31 < Spirit532> https://i.spirit.re/blqPi.png
2019-11-23T01:56:33 < Cracki> that bldc should have hall sensor wires. make sure you aren't driving those :>
2019-11-23T01:56:37 < Spirit532> here's the fet schematic
2019-11-23T01:57:31 < Spirit532> what in the world
2019-11-23T01:57:40 < Spirit532> I'll have to show this
2019-11-23T01:58:05 < qyx> can you scope the output?
2019-11-23T01:58:54 < Spirit532> https://i.spirit.re/Y9lbX.webm
2019-11-23T01:59:05 < Spirit532> I slowed it down with a 1ms delay in each loop cycle
2019-11-23T01:59:06 < Cracki> lol
2019-11-23T01:59:14 < Spirit532> what is it even doing!?
2019-11-23T01:59:16 < Cracki> looks jerky, the motion itself
2019-11-23T01:59:26 < Cracki> could something overflow
2019-11-23T01:59:42 < Spirit532> going forward, back, then.... forward, but further?
2019-11-23T01:59:43 < Spirit532> !?
2019-11-23T01:59:50 < Cracki> show code
2019-11-23T02:00:07 < Cracki> inb4 using uint8
2019-11-23T02:00:14 < Cracki> doubt it but who knows
2019-11-23T02:00:15 < Spirit532> https://i.spirit.re/cyyVy.txt
2019-11-23T02:01:17 < Cracki> hmmm try not reading HF_TIMX_ARR, store that value in some constant before
2019-11-23T02:01:29 < Cracki> I hope that's already a define/constant
2019-11-23T02:01:34 < Spirit532> it is
2019-11-23T02:01:42 < Cracki> I hope that's not defined to be the timer's ARR register
2019-11-23T02:01:45 < Cracki> or whatever
2019-11-23T02:01:45 < Spirit532> #define HF_TIMX_ARR (SYSCLOCK_FREQUENCY/(GATE_DRIVING_PWM_FREQUENCY*(HF_TIMX_PSC+1))-1)
2019-11-23T02:02:17 < Spirit532> TIMX_PSC is 0, so frequency*1 can be simplified
2019-11-23T02:02:28 < Spirit532> so SYSCLOCK/PWM_F-1 essentially
2019-11-23T02:02:29 < Cracki> very fucky. moar delay?
2019-11-23T02:02:51 < Cracki> it's moving uniformly one way, but jerkily the other
2019-11-23T02:03:06 < Cracki> hm it looks jerky both ways. that should not happe
2019-11-23T02:03:13 < Spirit532> smooth one way
2019-11-23T02:04:10 < Spirit532> https://i.spirit.re/t1a5L.webm
2019-11-23T02:04:24 < Cracki> lol
2019-11-23T02:04:29 < Spirit532> that's not right
2019-11-23T02:04:33 < Cracki> something is messing with its ability to drive
2019-11-23T02:04:51 < Cracki> something intermittently disengages, I would say
2019-11-23T02:04:58 < Spirit532> but... what?
2019-11-23T02:05:18 < Cracki> the pauses are when commands don't cause coil current, and the jerks are when they start working again
2019-11-23T02:05:54 < Spirit532> but it doesn't know coil current
2019-11-23T02:06:00 < Cracki> what else is running on this, anything interrupty or anything that could halt the loop?
2019-11-23T02:06:05 < Spirit532> nope
2019-11-23T02:06:19 < Spirit532> the second timer is firing, let me disable that for sure
2019-11-23T02:06:21 < Cracki> anything that is a 'safety feature' that could break the connection from timer PWM output to motor coils
2019-11-23T02:06:46 < Thorn> wtf https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EUiqxIiUR_4
2019-11-23T02:07:03 < Cracki> thx for the ear cancer
2019-11-23T02:07:28 < Cracki> yeah jetpacks have been a thing for a decade at least
2019-11-23T02:07:41 < Spirit532> do you just want to see all the code
2019-11-23T02:07:42 < Cracki> his hands are dummy stuff tho
2019-11-23T02:07:50 < Cracki> whoever films him is driving him
2019-11-23T02:07:54 < Cracki> gief code
2019-11-23T02:08:23 < Cracki> oh wait, the camera makes no shadow, wtf
2019-11-23T02:08:38 < Cracki> ah, cam is a drone
2019-11-23T02:08:38 < jadew> probably a drone
2019-11-23T02:08:45 < Cracki> i see a shadow at 5s
2019-11-23T02:08:56 < jadew> (the guy, not the camera)
2019-11-23T02:09:13 < Cracki> ah, not a drone, camera on a stick
2019-11-23T02:09:35 < jadew> oh, they must be using that stick removal thing
2019-11-23T02:09:51 < jadew> jetpacks are cool
2019-11-23T02:10:04 < jadew> wait till pirates get their hands on some
2019-11-23T02:11:19 < jadew> "mayday! mayday! airborne somali!"
2019-11-23T02:11:32 < Cracki> double mul = ((HF_TIMX_ARR/2)/100.0)*20.0;
2019-11-23T02:11:40 < Cracki> hm nevermind, that's in range
2019-11-23T02:12:24 < Spirit532> I guess we'll continue here then
2019-11-23T02:12:33 < Spirit532> yeah it's in range, I'm just turning it into percent to not guess
2019-11-23T02:13:57 < Spirit532> one thing that worries me is that it makes this odd whining noise, which changes around a lot
2019-11-23T02:14:09 < Cracki> does that PWMmanager stuff run concurrently
2019-11-23T02:14:16 < Spirit532> no it's gone, I don't use it
2019-11-23T02:14:19 < Spirit532> it was for reference
2019-11-23T02:14:21 < Cracki> the whining should be at pwm frequency
2019-11-23T02:14:38 < Spirit532> it's a really dirty noise that changes as it goes around
2019-11-23T02:15:05 < Cracki> that's suspicious
2019-11-23T02:15:13 < Cracki> what's the supply
2019-11-23T02:15:24 < Cracki> is the supply current-limited? does it run into the current limit?
2019-11-23T02:15:29 < Cracki> supply voltage decent enough?
2019-11-23T02:15:40 < Cracki> I would laugh if that's the case.
2019-11-23T02:15:43 < Thorn> I did fuck up my bq24296m circuit, turns out it needs external bias for the thermistor
2019-11-23T02:15:47 < Spirit532> oh huh
2019-11-23T02:15:55 < Cracki> that would explain why it craps out at certain positions... because coils get more current at those points
2019-11-23T02:15:59 < Spirit532> I disabled ClearInputState(tim.c) and the noise is gone
2019-11-23T02:16:03 < Cracki> wut
2019-11-23T02:16:05 < Spirit532> behavior is identical
2019-11-23T02:16:11 < Spirit532> current goes way up now though
2019-11-23T02:16:21 < Spirit532> where it... should be, I think, around 30%
2019-11-23T02:16:48 < Cracki> yeah disable that clear input state. ETR should have no business causing anything at this stage
2019-11-23T02:17:26 < Spirit532> ooh, after nuking it completely it stopped jumping!
2019-11-23T02:17:33 < Cracki> define nuking
2019-11-23T02:17:43 < Spirit532> commenting out ALL of the clear input state code
2019-11-23T02:17:51 < Cracki> good good
2019-11-23T02:18:05 < Cracki> I have no idea what that does and cba to read a RM to learn
2019-11-23T02:18:14 < Spirit532> well it does nothing now so that's good
2019-11-23T02:18:34 < Cracki> it'll start doing something again if you ever regenerate source from within cubemx
2019-11-23T02:18:40 < Spirit532> I'll disable it in cube
2019-11-23T02:18:56 < Cracki> best to make a note to look up in the RM what this breakdeadtime stuff does
2019-11-23T02:19:46 < Spirit532> I disabled the break
2019-11-23T02:19:55 < Cracki> some app note or w/e https://www.st.com/content/ccc/resource/technical/document/application_note/1a/d5/a5/cd/98/4e/47/76/DM00080497.pdf/files/DM00080497.pdf/jcr:content/translations/en.DM00080497.pdf
2019-11-23T02:20:50 < Cracki> apparently you have faults (?!) that trigger the break circuitry
2019-11-23T02:21:18 < Cracki> or it was configured to wrongly trigger on a condition that's actually safe
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2019-11-23T02:22:47 < Cracki> something wiggles the BKIN pin
2019-11-23T02:23:07 < Cracki> it's possible that it triggers due to overcurrent because you aren't doing current control yet, just plain PWM
2019-11-23T02:23:11 < Spirit532> it does something weird 
2019-11-23T02:23:23 < Cracki> so a lower amplitude might keep it from triggering
2019-11-23T02:23:36 < Cracki> something new weird I take it
2019-11-23T02:23:54 < Spirit532> you bet
2019-11-23T02:23:54 < Spirit532> https://i.spirit.re/7mvwT.webm
2019-11-23T02:24:13 < Spirit532> it's like the timer resets midway through going back
2019-11-23T02:24:15 -!- kakipr071 is now known as kakinull
2019-11-23T02:24:19 < Cracki> hm
2019-11-23T02:24:35 < Cracki> yes, there was some reset stuff involving ETR, get rid of that
2019-11-23T02:25:03 < Spirit532> I'll remove the pin definitions too and regen the code
2019-11-23T02:25:08 < Cracki> i'm not sure what is connected to tim?_etr but that may trigger spuriously
2019-11-23T02:25:21 < Cracki> sClearInputConfig.ClearInputSource = TIM_CLEARINPUTSOURCE_ETR;
2019-11-23T02:25:33 < Spirit532> that's completely commented
2019-11-23T02:25:37 < Cracki> hm
2019-11-23T02:26:02 < Spirit532> I wonder if disabling break disables deadtime
2019-11-23T02:26:14 < Spirit532> because what I really don't want to lose is deadtime
2019-11-23T02:26:16 < Cracki> no, breakdeadtimeconfig does that
2019-11-23T02:26:27 < Cracki> *sBreak...
2019-11-23T02:26:37 < Spirit532> sBreakDeadTimeConfig.BreakState
2019-11-23T02:26:41 < Cracki> oh wait you commented that out
2019-11-23T02:27:03 < Cracki> either way, something trips protections. consider doing less than 20% amplitude
2019-11-23T02:27:13 < Spirit532> dropping to 5% still does it
2019-11-23T02:27:16 < Spirit532> I can see a tiny wiggle
2019-11-23T02:27:17 < Cracki> hmm
2019-11-23T02:27:39 < Cracki> how much torque does the shaft offer to your fingers now?
2019-11-23T02:28:03 < Spirit532> if I hold it by the tape I can stop it
2019-11-23T02:28:26 < Cracki> just making sure the motor isn't damaged... when completely disconnected, the shaft should spin rather freely, no feelable cogging like in a stepper
2019-11-23T02:28:40 < Spirit532> there's very huge rough cogging 
2019-11-23T02:28:43 < Spirit532> not stepper like though
2019-11-23T02:28:56 < Spirit532> just the rotor sticking to the poles
2019-11-23T02:29:01 < Cracki> with leads completely disconnected?
2019-11-23T02:29:02 < Cracki> weird
2019-11-23T02:29:11 < Spirit532> it's smooth enough
2019-11-23T02:29:34 < Cracki> all the bldcs I have here, when disconnected, spin freely and offer no noticeable torque
2019-11-23T02:29:43 < Spirit532> there's very little of it
2019-11-23T02:29:47 < Spirit532> I can definitely feel it though
2019-11-23T02:29:55 < Spirit532> it's a long motor, rated at 78W
2019-11-23T02:29:55 < Cracki> all i can feel is ball bearings
2019-11-23T02:30:09 < Cracki> is your board rated to drive that
2019-11-23T02:30:10 < Spirit532> you only have HDD and CD drive motors though, right?
2019-11-23T02:30:20 < Cracki> is your power supply gonna do it too?
2019-11-23T02:30:22 < Cracki> right
2019-11-23T02:30:22 < Spirit532> yes
2019-11-23T02:30:28 < Spirit532> those motors are stupidly low power
2019-11-23T02:30:33 < Cracki> I should order one of those nema17 bldcs
2019-11-23T02:30:34 < Spirit532> high power bldcs have mild cogging
2019-11-23T02:30:57 < Cracki> give the lead-touching manual sequence a try
2019-11-23T02:31:00 < Spirit532> nothing rigid like steppers though, you can just feel resistance
2019-11-23T02:31:06 < Spirit532> lead touching
2019-11-23T02:31:08 < Cracki> with current limited lab supply
2019-11-23T02:31:11 < Spirit532> paste it again?
2019-11-23T02:31:43 < Cracki> uh... basically wrap-around, and one lead always leads the other
2019-11-23T02:32:00 < Cracki> _+- / +_- / +-_ / _-+ / ...
2019-11-23T02:32:25 < Spirit532> ok
2019-11-23T02:32:55 < Cracki> like shuffling with feet, one ahead, other follows
2019-11-23T02:33:20 < qyx> Cracki: you should feel the cogging with bldc
2019-11-23T02:33:22 < Cracki> low voltage too, no need to cause sparks
2019-11-23T02:33:50 < Spirit532> yeah those 4 states have 4 separate steps inside that 45ish angle
2019-11-23T02:33:52 < Cracki> qyx, hm... yes this thing here has 6 poles, it's possible that's what I feel
2019-11-23T02:33:59 < Cracki> 6 states of course
2019-11-23T02:34:13 < Cracki> but the rotor should snap to a clean angle, and the increments should look equal
2019-11-23T02:34:28 < Spirit532> does snap, increments look equalish
2019-11-23T02:34:33 < Cracki> great
2019-11-23T02:34:54 < Cracki> so it's the fucky electronics or weird protections kicking in
2019-11-23T02:35:16 < Cracki> if you keep that sequence going, it should move whole mechanical rotations
2019-11-23T02:35:41 < Spirit532> let me see
2019-11-23T02:35:47 < Cracki> _+- / +_- / +-_ / _-+ / -_+ / -+_ / _+- / ...
2019-11-23T02:36:27 < Cracki> I find that easiest when the motor leads sit taped on the table and I can wield banana plugs with two hands
2019-11-23T02:38:24 < Spirit532> yeah it does
2019-11-23T02:38:31 < Spirit532> so... either my drive signal is fucked, or something else?
2019-11-23T02:39:12 < Spirit532> what if I just manually program the sequence in...
2019-11-23T02:40:08 < Spirit532> the way I have them is, you can see from the code, all the fets are at 50% PWM, which results in net zero current flowing
2019-11-23T02:40:20 < Spirit532> so if I just manually do this, with delays between, it should do a full step around, right?
2019-11-23T02:40:30 < Spirit532> Just making sure I'm not insane
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2019-11-23T02:41:19 < Cracki> sounds like a plan
2019-11-23T02:41:35 < Cracki> yes, you can disable the timer and command those pins as gpios
2019-11-23T02:41:44 < Spirit532> I'll make use of the timer
2019-11-23T02:41:54 < Cracki> yeh, ful
2019-11-23T02:41:55 < Spirit532> just need to continue the cycle for a full revolution
2019-11-23T02:42:03 < Cracki> full on voltage can be trouble
2019-11-23T02:42:11 < Spirit532> I'll only use the multiplier
2019-11-23T02:42:12 < Spirit532> so 5%
2019-11-23T02:42:17 < Spirit532> or maybe 10
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2019-11-23T02:48:05 < Spirit532> I just realized there's a massive issue with this
2019-11-23T02:48:16 < Spirit532> I can't tristate the output, I can only leave it at neutral pwm
2019-11-23T02:48:31 < Spirit532> actually that shouldn't be an issue
2019-11-23T02:49:23 < Cracki> me poking a breadboard https://imgur.com/a/NSbK1Na
2019-11-23T02:49:44 < Cracki> this stspin thing should have an appnote explaining the pwm duty cycles
2019-11-23T03:01:21 < Spirit532> huh
2019-11-23T03:01:36 < Spirit532> doing the six step thing, it almost seems like... one or two of the phases are missing
2019-11-23T03:01:47 < Cracki> uh
2019-11-23T03:01:49 < Spirit532> and on the scope, on one of the outputs, there's a weird waveform
2019-11-23T03:02:10 < Cracki> the fog lifts
2019-11-23T03:02:20 < Spirit532> I'm not sure what it is
2019-11-23T03:02:33 < Spirit532> or rather how to diagnose it
2019-11-23T03:03:38 < Cracki> measure coil resistances
2019-11-23T03:03:41 < Cracki> lead to lead
2019-11-23T03:03:48 < Cracki> should all be equal and around single ohms
2019-11-23T03:03:56 < Cracki> (order of magnitude)
2019-11-23T03:05:07 < Spirit532> all are within +0.05 ohms of each other
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2019-11-23T03:05:09 < Spirit532> around 0.45
2019-11-23T03:05:28 < Spirit532> maybe it's something on my PCB?
2019-11-23T03:05:42 < Spirit532> like.. maybe bootstrap caps are failing or something
2019-11-23T03:09:56 < Cracki> I would say something in the chip disables the fets?
2019-11-23T03:10:17 < Spirit532> https://i.spirit.re/K3Afc.png
2019-11-23T03:10:19 < Cracki> you said the scope shows weird things
2019-11-23T03:10:22 < Spirit532> here's my entire loop
2019-11-23T03:10:27 < Spirit532> 2 and 6 are failing
2019-11-23T03:10:29 < Spirit532> sort of
2019-11-23T03:10:32 < Spirit532> there's still... current?
2019-11-23T03:10:45 < Spirit532> actually, looks like at 2 and 6 the current INCREASES
2019-11-23T03:10:47 < Spirit532> not drops
2019-11-23T03:10:50 < Spirit532> but where does it go
2019-11-23T03:12:02 < Cracki> 2 and 6, I don't see how they could be similar
2019-11-23T03:12:28 < Cracki> does 4 behave like 2/6?
2019-11-23T03:12:49 < Cracki> maybe something on the board _is_ broken
2019-11-23T03:12:56 < Cracki> or it's protection mechanisms again
2019-11-23T03:13:56 < Spirit532> the high side V fet is either not changing PWM
2019-11-23T03:14:07 < Spirit532> or it goes into this weird noise mode
2019-11-23T03:16:44 < Spirit532> ok so when I set the high V side to +mul, so CCR2, the waveform goes nuts
2019-11-23T03:16:51 < Spirit532> I can try showing it
2019-11-23T03:18:12 < Spirit532> https://i.spirit.re/ZGGgL.webm
2019-11-23T03:18:23 < Spirit532> watch from 0:08, which is when I get my probe on it correctly
2019-11-23T03:18:52 < Cracki> that might be shoot through, i.e. dead time bad
2019-11-23T03:19:02 < Cracki> just speculating tho
2019-11-23T03:19:20 < Cracki> what's the time division
2019-11-23T03:20:15 < Spirit532> 4us/div
2019-11-23T03:20:20 < Spirit532> I've set the dead time correctly I think
2019-11-23T03:20:24 < Cracki> I take it you scoped both high side and low side fet gates, and those plots being high-ish at the same time is bad I'd say
2019-11-23T03:21:02 < Cracki> play with dead time and see how that scope view changes
2019-11-23T03:22:38 < Spirit532> the low side fet is absolutely happy
2019-11-23T03:22:52 < Spirit532> it's only one of these weird high side fets
2019-11-23T03:22:59 < Spirit532> the other two are happy as well
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2019-11-23T03:24:29 < Cracki> the high side fets should get gate voltage boosted so... what are you scoping, "bridge nodes" of each half-bridge, or gates of each half bridge?
2019-11-23T03:25:02 < Cracki> looks like 10v/div, so that's 18-19v?
2019-11-23T03:25:15 < Spirit532> yeah
2019-11-23T03:25:23 < Spirit532> I'm scoping the gates
2019-11-23T03:26:12 < Cracki> weird, so one of the three half bridges behaves weirdly for no particular reason
2019-11-23T03:26:47 < Cracki> sounds broken... or something on the electronics/ic side isn't doing its job for that particular one of three legs
2019-11-23T03:27:01 < Spirit532> the bootstrap cap voltages are also odd
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2019-11-23T03:30:26 < bitmask> japanese carbon fiber for $11.50 for 5 meters, or chinese for $15.90 for 30 meters
2019-11-23T03:30:46 < Cracki> you'll use it to heat stuff eh
2019-11-23T03:30:49 < bitmask> yea
2019-11-23T03:31:02 < Cracki> I'm sure the chinese stuff is gonna get hot :>
2019-11-23T03:31:07 < bitmask> heh
2019-11-23T03:32:14 < Spirit532> so on 6 -+_
2019-11-23T03:32:19 < Spirit532> the voltages go super funny
2019-11-23T03:32:24 < Spirit532> on 2 they go slightly funny
2019-11-23T03:32:32 < Spirit532> !?!?!?
2019-11-23T03:32:33 < bitmask> chinese seller has many more and higher ratings, I think i'll give that a shot, ive been using the japanese one but need to remake the heaters
2019-11-23T03:32:37 < Spirit532> maybe this board just needs a good reflow
2019-11-23T03:32:45 < Spirit532> at this point I'm lost
2019-11-23T03:33:35 < Cracki> try another board?
2019-11-23T03:33:47 < Cracki> see if they have some readymade firmware you can throw on it?
2019-11-23T03:33:53 < Spirit532> I designed it
2019-11-23T03:33:56 < Spirit532> lol
2019-11-23T03:33:56 < Cracki> ah
2019-11-23T03:34:11 < Cracki> because they do have dev kits and "motor testbench" software
2019-11-23T03:36:30 < Spirit532> well would you look at that
2019-11-23T03:36:36 < Spirit532> after giving it a bit of a ruffle with the iron, it works
2019-11-23T03:36:45 < Spirit532> fuckyFET is gone too
2019-11-23T03:36:45 < Cracki> heh
2019-11-23T03:36:57 < Cracki> "the right amount of flux"
2019-11-23T03:37:24 < Cracki> well, see how fast you can make it spin!
2019-11-23T03:37:49 < Spirit532> not yet
2019-11-23T03:37:53 < Spirit532> I'm seeing deadtime issues
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2019-11-23T03:41:24 < Spirit532> ah no they're not
2019-11-23T03:41:27 < Spirit532> just some weird... ringing I guess
2019-11-23T03:41:29 < Spirit532> (inductive)
2019-11-23T03:42:58 < Spirit532> weeee, it spineth
2019-11-23T03:43:20 < Spirit532> well thanks for shoving a bit of common sense into my thinking
2019-11-23T03:43:45 < Spirit532> I immediately lept to a bigger problem
2019-11-23T03:44:02 < Spirit532> leapt?
2019-11-23T03:44:51 < Cracki> bigger eh
2019-11-23T03:47:50 < Spirit532> well yeah, a more fundamental "my knowledge about servos is nil" kind of deal
2019-11-23T03:52:54 < Spirit532> strangely the only thing I did was resolder the bootstrap cap and cinch down on the gate pin
2019-11-23T03:54:51 < Cracki> it's not a servo yet. for that you need position feedback.
2019-11-23T03:55:26 < Cracki> and I'd see about current sensing and control too
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2019-11-23T04:00:57 < Spirit532> I have that already! 
2019-11-23T04:01:02 < Spirit532> well, feedback, and current sensing
2019-11-23T04:01:10 < Cracki> good good
2019-11-23T04:01:34 < Cracki> current sensing should affect duty cycle
2019-11-23T04:01:45 < Spirit532> there's a shunt on the board, alongside an amplifier network(using the built in opamps, man this thing has everything), and a magnetic encoder on the back
2019-11-23T04:02:16 < Spirit532> so far I'm pushing half an amp at 8.5V and it's barely warm
2019-11-23T04:02:34 < Spirit532> with enough torque to make it not stoppable by hand at some 4Hzish
2019-11-23T04:02:56 < Spirit532> the BEMF is super strong, this is at 35% duty
2019-11-23T04:06:12 < Spirit532> also since this is BLDC, it's going quite rough
2019-11-23T04:06:24 < Spirit532> I need to either implement trapezoidal or SVPWM
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2019-11-23T04:13:48 < jadew> more on google being an evil piece of shit
2019-11-23T04:14:02 < jadew> they removed the option to disable search suggestions in the address bar
2019-11-23T04:14:27 < jadew> they really want to know what you're typing
2019-11-23T04:14:40 < Spirit532> do you have a google account?
2019-11-23T04:14:47 < jadew> obviously
2019-11-23T04:15:06 < Spirit532> have you ever been in the hidden account privacy settings
2019-11-23T04:15:31 < jadew> how's that related to chrome tho?
2019-11-23T04:15:40 < Spirit532> google collects all that in there
2019-11-23T04:15:46 < jadew> (I'm not logged in into chrome)
2019-11-23T04:15:48 < Spirit532> also just get chromium
2019-11-23T04:15:50 < Spirit532> or brave
2019-11-23T04:16:26 < jadew> I'll check brave out
2019-11-23T04:32:44 < bitmask> jesus, I gotta stop assuming china is cheaper for everything, I can get twice as much carbon fiber for the same price and I know its brand name Toray and its only one state over
2019-11-23T04:35:17 < Cracki> I learned that about any large or heavy stuff like motors
2019-11-23T04:35:34 < Cracki> shipping kills it
2019-11-23T04:37:53 < jadew> ok, so far I like brave
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2019-11-23T04:53:52 < jadew> the omnibox works like normal now
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2019-11-23T10:27:50 < ColdKeyboard> Can anyone recommend a cheap GSM module? 2G, 3G, LTE all goes. I basically need it to send few bytes over GPRS/LTE
2019-11-23T10:28:10 < ColdKeyboard> I'll probably need like 20-30 of them for a IoT sensor project
2019-11-23T10:28:38 < ColdKeyboard> Those SIM800 modules look nice but the IC/Module is cheaper than "development board"
2019-11-23T10:29:46 < PaulFertser> ColdKeyboard: and do you need those with industrial temperature range?
2019-11-23T10:33:29 < ColdKeyboard> PaulFertser: Nope, they are mostly going to be around room temperature
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2019-11-23T11:20:38 < machinehum> um drunk
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2019-11-23T12:03:00 < Steffanx> Dont do that machinehum 
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2019-11-23T15:08:44 < Steffanx> WHY ST.COM is such goddamn awful website
2019-11-23T15:13:48 < PaulFertser> Steffanx: have you asked Antonio Borneo yet?
2019-11-23T15:14:01 < PaulFertser> I had a feeling he's contracted by ST.
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2019-11-23T15:32:23 < Steffanx> should i know tha tguy?
2019-11-23T15:32:47 < PaulFertser> Steffanx: yes, he contributes ST and other useful code to OpenOCD.
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2019-11-23T15:35:23 < Steffanx> aha
2019-11-23T15:35:33 < Steffanx> i dont follow openocd much
2019-11-23T15:37:24 < Steffanx> OH He's actually in the ocd channel
2019-11-23T15:45:11 < Steffanx> kakipr0: random music video for you https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LEoGQU_k78k
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2019-11-23T15:55:15 < kakipr0> it has promising start
2019-11-23T15:59:15 < kakipr0> interesting symbolism
2019-11-23T16:04:04 < kakipr0> https://drive.google.com/file/d/11GgQ8BRucmAy_bFeNTvmQHo1l7g5GIt2/view?usp=sharing mess of EXT bus connections
2019-11-23T16:04:55 < kakipr0> hmm
2019-11-23T16:05:31 < kakipr0> maybe I should change +5v switchable internal rails using that high-side switch instead of pile of discretes
2019-11-23T16:05:49 < kakipr0> ie. LCD_VDD
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2019-11-23T16:42:14 < vampi-the-frog> ruh roh
2019-11-23T16:42:24 < vampi-the-frog> it's that frog guy again
2019-11-23T16:42:33 < vampi-the-frog> can someone help me compile this example? https://github.com/kiyoto-y/usb_dac_stm32f4
2019-11-23T16:42:41 < vampi-the-frog> looks like the system workbench site is down
2019-11-23T16:42:49 < vampi-the-frog> and I just need the bin file
2019-11-23T16:42:55 < kakipr0> yes
2019-11-23T16:43:01 < vampi-the-frog> possibly test it in an F4 disco if you have one laying about
2019-11-23T16:43:09 < vampi-the-frog> thanks kakipr0 
2019-11-23T16:48:18 < Steffanx> generate a new project from the mx file for the cubeide?
2019-11-23T16:48:19 < Steffanx> copy paste code.
2019-11-23T16:48:20 < Steffanx> done?
2019-11-23T16:49:36 < Steffanx> oh the project is nto there sorry
2019-11-23T16:50:47 < vampi-the-frog> I have none of those
2019-11-23T16:53:29 < Steffanx> the cudeide might be able to import the workbench project
2019-11-23T16:53:30 < Steffanx> s
2019-11-23T16:54:10 < vampi-the-frog> I figured someone could just clone it and compile it and send me the bin
2019-11-23T16:57:24 < Steffanx> if i only had the workbench etc.
2019-11-23T17:09:18 < Steffanx> it builds fine with cubeide vampi-the-frog :P
2019-11-23T17:11:26 < Steffanx> How do you want the binary?
2019-11-23T17:16:37 < vampi-the-frog> does it?
2019-11-23T17:16:49 < vampi-the-frog> thanks, just send it any way you can
2019-11-23T17:17:20 < Steffanx> i have no website or something, could pick a random transfer website. 
2019-11-23T17:17:26 < vampi-the-frog> do you have one of those google drives or something?
2019-11-23T17:17:27 < vampi-the-frog> oh
2019-11-23T17:17:32 < vampi-the-frog> I'll privmsg you my email address
2019-11-23T17:18:55 < Steffanx> done
2019-11-23T17:19:01 < vampi-the-frog> thanks, i really appreciate it
2019-11-23T17:19:16 < vampi-the-frog> I'm gonna upload it and see how it talks to the host so I can copy it with libopencm3
2019-11-23T17:19:55 < Steffanx> you have the sores for that right?
2019-11-23T17:20:16 < vampi-the-frog> source?
2019-11-23T17:21:37 < Steffanx> yea
2019-11-23T17:22:09 < vampi-the-frog> yes, I have all the sources I need
2019-11-23T17:27:03 < vampi-the-frog> that's perfect man, I managed to upload it and it works perfectly
2019-11-23T17:27:58 < Steffanx> :)
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2019-11-23T17:58:44 < bitmask> hi!
2019-11-23T17:58:46 < bitmask> I gots a question
2019-11-23T17:58:54 < bitmask> https://www.hycontek.com/en/products-en/3140
2019-11-23T17:59:36 < bitmask> R2 is used to sense the current for charging and discharging, different versions of the chip have different sense voltages, how do you calculate what the current limit is?
2019-11-23T17:59:57 < bitmask> different sense voltages for cut off, over charge current and over discharge current
2019-11-23T18:00:28 < Steffanx> hey mr bitmask. when will you get feet warmers? Is nice addition to your jacket.
2019-11-23T18:00:38 < bitmask> hand and head first
2019-11-23T18:02:10 < Thorn> bitmask: they're using the dual mosfet for current sensing
2019-11-23T18:02:48 < Thorn> so find its Rds(on) in the datasheet and use that for calculations
2019-11-23T18:02:59 < bitmask> yea I saw that in the q & a, but I cant find the Ron for the chip I have.  It shows 50 mOhm for the previous versions of the chip but if thats the case then I think I have this very wrong
2019-11-23T18:03:14 < bitmask> 50 for both combined
2019-11-23T18:03:24 < bitmask> so the value of the resistor doesn't matter at all?
2019-11-23T18:04:19 < Thorn> well how much current is flowing into CS? I imagine it's a high impedance input
2019-11-23T18:04:32 < Thorn> so there's little or no voltage drop on R2
2019-11-23T18:04:46 < Thorn> unless datashit says otherwisw
2019-11-23T18:05:10 < bitmask> not sure, it just says to use 1k to 2k
2019-11-23T18:05:53 < Thorn> so the value doesn't really matter
2019-11-23T18:06:07 < bitmask> If R2 has a resistance higher than 2kΩ, the charging current may not be cut when a high-voltage charger is connected. Please select as large a resistance as possible to prevent current when a charger is connected in reversed. 
2019-11-23T18:06:17 < bitmask> thats all it says
2019-11-23T18:08:24 < bitmask> damn, this chip isnt gonna work
2019-11-23T18:08:28 < bitmask> its limited to 1.5A discharge
2019-11-23T18:08:36 < bitmask> if the Ron is still 50 mohm
2019-11-23T18:09:09 < bitmask> that seems really low though
2019-11-23T18:09:22 < bitmask> theres gotta be the number somewhere
2019-11-23T18:10:36 < bitmask> wait, are the mosfets internal or external, jesus 
2019-11-23T18:10:39 < bitmask> what am i doing
2019-11-23T18:11:08 < bitmask> fuck me, they are external
2019-11-23T18:11:14 < bitmask> no wonder its not in the datasheet
2019-11-23T18:12:37 < bitmask> rant over
2019-11-23T18:14:04 < Steffanx> lol
2019-11-23T18:16:41 < bitmask> how I just gotta figure out what mosfet this is with a 2L on it
2019-11-23T18:17:09 < bitmask> now
2019-11-23T18:20:36 < bitmask> I guess I can work backwards
2019-11-23T18:23:14 < bitmask> its a 25A bms and the original chip has a sense voltage of 150 mV so it must be around 6 mOhm. so I'll only get about 16A
2019-11-23T18:23:28 < bitmask> the 6 mohm seems very low for 2 combined mosfets
2019-11-23T18:27:46 < bitmask> guess I'll just keep the bms stock
2019-11-23T18:36:28 < Thorn> bitmask: the mosfet normally used with these protection ICs is some variant/clone of 8205a
2019-11-23T18:37:01 < Thorn> such as fs8205a
2019-11-23T18:39:50 < bitmask> i see
2019-11-23T18:40:02 < bitmask> nice, my glass bottle arrived unshattered, only took 3 attempts
2019-11-23T18:41:33 < Steffanx>  \o/
2019-11-23T18:41:46 < bitmask> tea time :P
2019-11-23T18:41:57 < Steffanx> english blend?
2019-11-23T18:42:56 < BrainDamage> glass bottle/
2019-11-23T18:42:57 < bitmask> nah, i got these special teas with fruit chunks in em, one is black tea based, one is green tea and one is something else
2019-11-23T18:43:17 < bitmask> https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B07THWV3GZ
2019-11-23T18:43:29 < BrainDamage> ah, infuser
2019-11-23T18:44:21 < BrainDamage> the magnetic cap is a neat idea
2019-11-23T18:44:29 < bitmask> yea i liked it
2019-11-23T18:44:50 < bitmask> i hear the insulation isnt all that great but I wanted glass so I can see if it gets dirty
2019-11-23T18:45:14 < bitmask> im going to get a regular stainless steel double wall for water eventually
2019-11-23T19:07:04 < bitmask> w00t boards and stencil will be here monday
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2019-11-23T19:15:35 < bitmask> https://i.imgur.com/pyJScD5.png
2019-11-23T19:15:38 < bitmask> :/
2019-11-23T19:16:53 < BrainDamage> why do you use a trivet with a water bottle
2019-11-23T19:17:52 < bitmask> when I refill with cold water it keeps some water off the cheap table, really I just have it there so why place the water bottle next to it and take up more room
2019-11-23T19:18:09 < bitmask> im not sure it can take the heat of the tea either, its pla hah
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2019-11-23T20:41:18 < Cracki> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Pb5u8LUjamY
2019-11-23T20:41:26 < Cracki> *honk*
2019-11-23T20:42:50 < Cracki> for someone who doesn't understand russian either... it's clear how little the cat can understand
2019-11-23T20:44:42 < aandrew> I find something about that sentence very amazing
2019-11-23T20:44:50 < aandrew> er s/amazing/amusing/
2019-11-23T20:45:35 < vampi-the-frog> AMAZIN!
2019-11-23T20:45:40 < vampi-the-frog> BETA!
2019-11-23T20:57:53 < Mangy_Dog> https://imgur.com/gallery/uJYZr3o
2019-11-23T20:59:17 < BrainDamage> Mangy_Dog: if possible, can you print the action buttons more flush?
2019-11-23T20:59:41 < Mangy_Dog> its possible but i wouldnt recommend it
2019-11-23T20:59:51 < Mangy_Dog> as the buttons travel is a good 3mm or 4
2019-11-23T20:59:56 < BrainDamage> oh
2019-11-23T20:59:59 < Mangy_Dog> as there silicon domed
2019-11-23T21:00:35 < BrainDamage> one old trick for rapid keypressing involves making a circle with finger and thumb, putting the button in the mid of the nails, and sliding back and forth
2019-11-23T21:00:56 < BrainDamage> can easily sustain 5Hz or so of presses
2019-11-23T21:06:03 < Mangy_Dog> heh yeah i did that too :p 
2019-11-23T21:09:15 < jpa-> what's the difference of DTCM/ITCM on stm32h7? considering both can fetch instructions and both can fetch data
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2019-11-23T21:11:51 < jpa-> and are the two dtcm banks interleaved or one after another
2019-11-23T21:13:28 < jpa-> apparently they're interleaved
2019-11-23T21:13:56 < jpa-> as AN4891 says they can be accessed as double-words, even though each bank only has 32 bit bus
2019-11-23T21:17:50 < Mangy_Dog> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OOzcOe9GYy4
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2019-11-23T21:50:53 < qyx> sdio pros, is it possible to multiplex more than one SD card on a single SDIO port?
2019-11-23T21:51:45 < Spirit532> chipselect probably
2019-11-23T21:51:49 < Spirit532> if it exists on the cards
2019-11-23T21:52:15 < Spirit532> I have a question of my own: ADC pros, why would my very low level signal be getting cut off?
2019-11-23T21:52:32 < Spirit532> There's a tiny bit of the waveform under this:
2019-11-23T21:52:32 < Spirit532> https://i.spirit.re/GXIPy.png
2019-11-23T21:52:44 < qyx> sdio does not have cs
2019-11-23T21:52:46 < Spirit532> It's supposed to never to below... I don't know, 20 counts?
2019-11-23T21:53:55 < BrainDamage> do you have an amplifier in front/
2019-11-23T21:54:12 < BrainDamage> because you might be going out the amp rail limits
2019-11-23T21:55:55 < Spirit532> the opamp is on the stspin chip, the output of said opamp is very well in line with what I want to see
2019-11-23T21:56:03 < Spirit532> that goes straight into the ADC, just a hop between pins
2019-11-23T21:57:08 < qyx> apparently sdio can discover all cards on the bus and then select only a singe one to talk to
2019-11-23T21:57:56 < BrainDamage> Spirit532: do you have a function gen? feed it a ramp and see what the adc samples
2019-11-23T21:58:08 < BrainDamage> err, sawtooth
2019-11-23T21:58:47 < Spirit532> I'm guessing I'll need to shift the voltage a bit higher than zero
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2019-11-23T22:53:46 < Cracki> what's the y axis
2019-11-23T22:53:53 < Cracki> 0.0 to 0.0 sounds broken
2019-11-23T22:54:52 < Cracki> show all the analog fuckery
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2019-11-23T22:58:43 < Spirit532> Cracki, I've deduced it's just too low of a voltage
2019-11-23T22:58:58 < Spirit532> I goofed with the shunt, using a value 10x less than what I thought I'd want
2019-11-23T22:58:58 < Cracki> there is no such thing
2019-11-23T22:59:13 < Cracki> still looks clipped
2019-11-23T22:59:37 < Spirit532> analog fuckery it is
2019-11-23T22:59:37 < Spirit532> https://i.spirit.re/ZuhXH.txt
2019-11-23T22:59:43 < Cracki> how many nanoohms do you have
2019-11-23T22:59:54 < Spirit532> 1 milliohm and a gain of 30
2019-11-23T22:59:59 < Spirit532> so... not enough to sense ~250mA 
2019-11-23T23:00:17 < Cracki> 30 * 0.25 mV
2019-11-23T23:00:21 < Cracki> yeah that's a little low
2019-11-23T23:00:43 < Cracki> vref is... 3.3 or something?
2019-11-23T23:00:47 < Spirit532> yep
2019-11-23T23:01:04 < Cracki> and you do want do use adc instead of plain analog comparator?
2019-11-23T23:01:17 < Spirit532> yeah because I need to sense motor current
2019-11-23T23:01:24 < Spirit532> this is not an OC input, it's the actual current input
2019-11-23T23:01:34 < Cracki> for current control an AC (and a dac) is good enough
2019-11-23T23:01:34 < qyx> uhm, 1mohm for 250mA is a bit overkill
2019-11-23T23:01:49 < Spirit532> the maximum current I'm planning is 10A peak
2019-11-23T23:01:57 < Spirit532> but it's still way too little
2019-11-23T23:02:14 < Spirit532> I've already ordered 10mOhm and 50mOhm
2019-11-23T23:02:31 < qyx> I have a bunch of 1ohm for this purpose
2019-11-23T23:02:43 < qyx> I stack it until I am satisfied
2019-11-23T23:02:45 < qyx> *them
2019-11-23T23:02:48 < Cracki> for 10A i'd stick with the 1m
2019-11-23T23:02:52 < Spirit532> 10A peak
2019-11-23T23:03:04 < Spirit532> usual current is going to be 1-5A
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2019-11-23T23:03:19 < Spirit532> but not uniform since this is an ugly BLDC and why can't they just accept a nice sin
2019-11-23T23:03:38 < qyx> because it has DC in the name
2019-11-23T23:03:46 < Spirit532> stinky
2019-11-23T23:03:53 < Cracki> they do accept sin
2019-11-23T23:04:15 < Spirit532> except there's a ton of cogging with sin
2019-11-23T23:04:17 < Spirit532> this needs SVPWM
2019-11-23T23:04:46 < Cracki> and the DC in the name only comes from primitive driving, where you give it full on voltage and switch when hall sensor says to switch
2019-11-23T23:05:26 < Cracki> svpwm... that is unit circle stuff, so sin
2019-11-23T23:05:38 < Cracki> ah, not quite. til
2019-11-23T23:06:06 < Spirit532> the boobly waveform
2019-11-23T23:06:21 < Cracki> uh, I've got an article, and they do mention foc and svpwm, but they don't plainly state if that's the same or how it differs
2019-11-23T23:06:31 < Cracki> and their graphics are shit too
2019-11-23T23:06:39 < Spirit532> https://3l4sbp4ao2771ln0f54chhvm-wpengine.netdna-ssl.com/wp-content/uploads/2019/03/FOC-with-SVPWM-TI-Diagram.png
2019-11-23T23:06:49 < Cracki> that's useless
2019-11-23T23:06:57 < qyx> I was always taught sin is not for BLDCs
2019-11-23T23:07:02 < Cracki> a box labeled "SVPWM" explains nothing
2019-11-23T23:07:11 < Spirit532> replace clarke park with rotary encoder
2019-11-23T23:07:19 < Spirit532> inverse park gives you signalAlpha and signalBeta
2019-11-23T23:07:23 < Spirit532> then you feed that into %math%
2019-11-23T23:07:33 < Spirit532> and instead of sin() it gives you booblySin()
2019-11-23T23:07:51 < Spirit532> except there's also control theory I don't understand bolted onto that
2019-11-23T23:07:59 < Cracki> that's like saying "a car is something where you put fuel in and out comes spinning wheels"
2019-11-23T23:08:24 < Spirit532> I can't explain it because I don't understand a shred of it myself yet
2019-11-23T23:08:26 < Cracki> let's hope wikipedia isn't being its usual ivory tower fuckstick self
2019-11-23T23:08:55 < Cracki> they start with a unit circle and vectors. so far it's foc.
2019-11-23T23:09:18 < BrainDamage> https://www.motioncontroltips.com/what-is-space-vector-pulse-width-modulation-svpwm/
2019-11-23T23:09:26 < Spirit532> https://www.motioncontroltips.com/what-is-space-vector-pulse-width-modulation-svpwm/
2019-11-23T23:09:27 < Spirit532> ha
2019-11-23T23:09:32 < Cracki> exactly that page is what I was looking at first
2019-11-23T23:10:24 < Cracki> WP> output voltages vary as a pulsed sinusoid, with each leg offset by 120 degrees of phase angle.
2019-11-23T23:10:29 < Cracki> still waiting for the magic
2019-11-23T23:10:54 < BrainDamage> the additional gain is that since you're (indirectly) measuring flux in the system so you're compensating for any system imperfections
2019-11-23T23:10:59 < BrainDamage> such as varying load
2019-11-23T23:11:14 < BrainDamage> just throwing out a sine works only for perfectly harmonic loads
2019-11-23T23:11:21 < Cracki> flux ~ current?
2019-11-23T23:11:31 < Cracki> obviously not sine voltage, but sine current
2019-11-23T23:11:32 < BrainDamage> yes
2019-11-23T23:11:47 < Cracki> good, so far no surprises except a second name for a known idea
2019-11-23T23:12:08 < BrainDamage> it's just a tecnique to have real world measurement
2019-11-23T23:12:47 < Cracki> that controltips.com link's second graphic has a sketch of the currents at the end that looks like trapezoidal with sine caps on top
2019-11-23T23:13:03 < Cracki> is that truth or fucked up illustration
2019-11-23T23:14:09 < Spirit532> there's only one issue I'm seeing here
2019-11-23T23:14:14 < Spirit532> I only have one, combined shunt
2019-11-23T23:14:17 < Spirit532> not two phase shunts
2019-11-23T23:14:23 < Cracki> shunt in what circuit
2019-11-23T23:14:28 < Spirit532> in my circuit
2019-11-23T23:14:31 < Spirit532> and I would very much like to avoid having two phase shunts
2019-11-23T23:14:36 < Cracki> exactly where
2019-11-23T23:15:22 < Spirit532> here's my power stage
2019-11-23T23:15:22 < Spirit532> https://i.spirit.re/ASgQe.png
2019-11-23T23:15:32 < Spirit532> and the built-in opamp
2019-11-23T23:15:54 < Spirit532> it's on the low side of all three shunts
2019-11-23T23:15:56 < BrainDamage> probably fucked up illustration
2019-11-23T23:16:05 < Spirit532> er, all three phases
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2019-11-23T23:16:17 < Cracki> or two... because summation rule or something
2019-11-23T23:16:21 < BrainDamage> during my power elec course I remember demonstrating that sine is the optimal drive for BLDC
2019-11-23T23:16:28 < BrainDamage> so you measure the total current only
2019-11-23T23:16:34 < Cracki> good good
2019-11-23T23:16:37 < Spirit532> yeah BrainDamage 
2019-11-23T23:16:50 < BrainDamage> you're missing phase information this way
2019-11-23T23:16:58 < Spirit532> yes, kinda?
2019-11-23T23:17:03 < Spirit532> I have an absolute rotary encoder
2019-11-23T23:17:51 < BrainDamage> ok, so if you know the magnetic structure of your motor, then you can make your transform
2019-11-23T23:18:13 < Cracki> you're trying to change current in three different coils. knowing total current doesn't say which way to drive a particular coil's current
2019-11-23T23:18:15 < Spirit532> can you define magnetic structure?
2019-11-23T23:18:18 < Spirit532> you mean pole count?
2019-11-23T23:18:20 < Cracki> i.e. whether it's above or below target
2019-11-23T23:18:39 < BrainDamage> yes, and location
2019-11-23T23:18:46 < Spirit532> yeah I thought so
2019-11-23T23:18:56 < Spirit532> so I have an absolute position and four identical sections
2019-11-23T23:19:02 < Spirit532> of 0-360 "electric" degrees
2019-11-23T23:19:08 < kakipr0> is edge of ethernet jack over via a problem?
2019-11-23T23:19:21 < Spirit532> no
2019-11-23T23:20:04 < kakipr0> I wonder if the shield extends to bottom of ethernet jack
2019-11-23T23:20:52 < sync> Spirit532: the problem is that you don't know how the current is distributed in your phases
2019-11-23T23:21:05 < sync> as it will not be perfectly balanced due to realism reasons
2019-11-23T23:21:14 < Spirit532> do I *have* to know that?
2019-11-23T23:21:18 < sync> yes
2019-11-23T23:21:27 < sync> otherwise your current regulator will not work
2019-11-23T23:22:02 < Spirit532> my only goal is to limit the total current to prevent the fets from emitting the operational fog
2019-11-23T23:22:26 < sync> wat
2019-11-23T23:22:28 < sync> no
2019-11-23T23:22:36 < Spirit532> but without phase current sensing I'm guessing holding torque will be an issue?
2019-11-23T23:24:26 < sync> the problem is that you need to somehow have a torque control loop, which thus needs to control current
2019-11-23T23:24:33 < catphish> once again i'm looking at USB mass storage, and once again i'm wishing a curse on whoever decided not to implement a "simple" usb storage class that doesnt need a full SCSI stack
2019-11-23T23:24:45 < Spirit532> is there a way to "profile" the motor before it runs, sync?
2019-11-23T23:25:02 < sync> and you can model your motor behaviour somewhat reasonable but it just doesn't work well
2019-11-23T23:25:11 < Spirit532> with one current shunt and an absolute encoder
2019-11-23T23:25:18 < Spirit532> make some sort of lookup table
2019-11-23T23:25:32 < Cracki> no shortcuts
2019-11-23T23:25:41 < Cracki> shortcuts are more complicated
2019-11-23T23:25:47 < sync> no, as you cannot determine the individual phase current
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2019-11-23T23:25:56 < Spirit532> I don't think I even have the space for another shunt on this board
2019-11-23T23:26:03 < Spirit532> the NEMA17 footprint is tiny
2019-11-23T23:26:04 < catphish> oo a motor control conversation, i know motors :)
2019-11-23T23:26:14 < Spirit532> hi catphish 
2019-11-23T23:26:23 < sync> you do
2019-11-23T23:26:25 < Spirit532> I looked into your stm32_vfd repo! :P
2019-11-23T23:26:31 < sync> it will easily fit in there
2019-11-23T23:26:50 < Spirit532> sync, is there aaaaaaaany way to avoid it?
2019-11-23T23:26:53 < sync> no
2019-11-23T23:27:12 < catphish> Spirit532: that was a cool project, uses current sensing to control an induction motor, you're looking at BLDC?
2019-11-23T23:27:20 < catphish> i missed the context
2019-11-23T23:27:25 < Spirit532> yeah
2019-11-23T23:27:46 < Spirit532> I'm making(learning how to) a NEMA17-sized servo driver to bolt directly onto the back of a motor
2019-11-23T23:28:17 < Spirit532> https://www.automation.com/automation-news/article/precise-brushless-torque-control-with-only-1-shunt-resistor
2019-11-23T23:28:21 < Spirit532> looks like it is sort of possible, sync 
2019-11-23T23:28:36 < sync> as I said, it works somewhat reasonable
2019-11-23T23:28:38 < sync> but not good
2019-11-23T23:28:43 < Spirit532> somewhat reasonable is a-ok for me
2019-11-23T23:28:53 < Spirit532> I'm not looking to make the next sliced bread here
2019-11-23T23:29:06 < sync> then why even bother?
2019-11-23T23:29:11 < Spirit532> just a servo drive that does the spins and is enough as a drop-in replacement for steppers
2019-11-23T23:29:52 < sync> yes, but you will be limited in maximum speed and you have to be relatively careful when to sample the shunt
2019-11-23T23:29:56 < catphish> i don't know a huge amount about brushless, there's a great open source controller to drive multirotor motors using only voltage feedback
2019-11-23T23:30:11 < sync> which can entirely be avoided by just using three shunts
2019-11-23T23:30:25 < catphish> this probably isn't hugely efficient though, personally i'd go with current sensors
2019-11-23T23:30:30 < Spirit532> there isn't really enough space on the board for three shunts without huge relayout
2019-11-23T23:30:32 < catphish> *3 current sensors
2019-11-23T23:30:41 < sync> there is no real need for a huge relayout
2019-11-23T23:30:47 < sync> you can fit them quite comfortably
2019-11-23T23:30:51 < Spirit532> https://i.spirit.re/nGk9p.png
2019-11-23T23:30:55 < Spirit532> can I?
2019-11-23T23:31:05 < catphish> wow that's  packed
2019-11-23T23:31:14 < Spirit532> no kidding
2019-11-23T23:31:28 < sync> yes, they will easily fit
2019-11-23T23:31:32 < Spirit532> I don't want to make an expensive drive and jam tolerances in
2019-11-23T23:32:53 < Spirit532> not to mention I'm pretty sure I don't even have a spare ADC channel
2019-11-23T23:33:08 < catphish> so what *are* you measuring?
2019-11-23T23:33:26 < Spirit532> see https://i.spirit.re/ASgQe.png
2019-11-23T23:33:28 < Spirit532> total current
2019-11-23T23:33:41 < sync> there is huge space above the devices, you can just move the small resistors out of the way
2019-11-23T23:33:48 < BrainDamage> you can mux the adc fwiw
2019-11-23T23:34:16 < Spirit532> mux the ADC for current measurement?
2019-11-23T23:34:25 < catphish> Spirit532: and how do you measure rotor position?
2019-11-23T23:34:33 < Spirit532> catphish, see the encoder on the bottom layer
2019-11-23T23:34:37 < Spirit532> absolute magnetic 12-bit
2019-11-23T23:34:37 < BrainDamage> yes
2019-11-23T23:34:39 < sync> yes, they don't have to be synchronous
2019-11-23T23:34:44 < sync> you just have to know when you sample
2019-11-23T23:34:57 < Spirit532> I'd have to have extra outputs to mux them externally
2019-11-23T23:35:02 < Spirit532> .. I don't have enough pins
2019-11-23T23:35:09 < catphish> Spirit532: well, i think you probably have enough there
2019-11-23T23:35:27 < Spirit532> enough to do what?
2019-11-23T23:35:35 < catphish> run the motor happily
2019-11-23T23:35:49 < Spirit532> okay, any idea on *how* I should do that?
2019-11-23T23:36:10 < sync> you don't even need to use the opamp output
2019-11-23T23:36:15 < sync> you can just internally mux it into the adc
2019-11-23T23:36:20 < Spirit532> can't
2019-11-23T23:36:45 < sync> what kind of junk stm is that
2019-11-23T23:36:54 < Spirit532> https://i.spirit.re/QvaR4.png
2019-11-23T23:36:58 < Spirit532> they literally bolted the opamps onto it
2019-11-23T23:37:03 < Spirit532> it's an STSPIN32F0A
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2019-11-23T23:37:06 < catphish> 1) measure rotor position 2) look up position in output waveform in a table 3) send output waveform to 3-phase PWM timer 4) measure total current, and use it to reduce a multiplier on all 3 phases if it's too high
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2019-11-23T23:37:23 < catphish> should be a pretty simple task with an accurate rotor position sensor
2019-11-23T23:37:34 < Spirit532> what should be in that table?
2019-11-23T23:37:45 < catphish> well you need to know what waveform your motor wants
2019-11-23T23:37:52 < Spirit532> and how do I get that?
2019-11-23T23:37:54 < sync> what a piece of junk
2019-11-23T23:37:59 < Cracki> catphish, you ignore that coil currents aren't immediately proportional to voltage
2019-11-23T23:38:00 < sync> use something like a G4
2019-11-23T23:38:09 < Spirit532> sync, can you at least look it up
2019-11-23T23:38:19 < Spirit532> it's everything in one chip
2019-11-23T23:38:53 < Spirit532> buck converter, bootstrap cap driver, linear reg, fet gate driver, opamps
2019-11-23T23:39:05 < sync> the G4 also has internal opamps, and the good ADCs
2019-11-23T23:39:15 < Spirit532> and literally nothing else
2019-11-23T23:39:23 < Spirit532> which would double or triple my part count and cost
2019-11-23T23:39:28 < sync> nah
2019-11-23T23:39:33 < Spirit532> this thing is CHEAP
2019-11-23T23:39:37 < sync> it will increase your partcount, yeah
2019-11-23T23:39:39 < sync> but meh
2019-11-23T23:39:41 < Spirit532> and I'm not arguing with you about it
2019-11-23T23:39:50 < sync> but I'm arguing with you
2019-11-23T23:39:53 < Spirit532> the goal here is price and ease of assembly(including paid PCBA in low quantity)
2019-11-23T23:39:58 < Spirit532> and there's no chip that can beat this one
2019-11-23T23:40:01 < sync> there is
2019-11-23T23:40:10 < catphish> Cracki: it's true that there's some lag relative to the speed, it may be worth improving upon the design later
2019-11-23T23:40:14 < sync> as that thing is pretty much impossible to use very well
2019-11-23T23:40:26 < Spirit532> catphish, there's also a bit of cogging
2019-11-23T23:40:30 < Spirit532> that's what I'm worried about solving
2019-11-23T23:40:47 < Spirit532> when driving the motor with sin(1,2,3ph), I'm getting lots of cogging and unevenness
2019-11-23T23:41:01 < Cracki> for steppers it's definitely the case that you can't just pwm it with fixed duty cycle. coils take noticeable time to "charge"
2019-11-23T23:41:08 < sync> yes, you gotta overlay you current with the waveform of your cogging
2019-11-23T23:41:15 < Cracki> that's why stepper drivers do current control
2019-11-23T23:41:18 < Spirit532> how do I get rid of this?
2019-11-23T23:41:18 < sync> or use a motor that has lower cogging torque
2019-11-23T23:41:18 < Spirit532> https://www.automation.com/images/article/ingenia/figure4.png
2019-11-23T23:41:31 < Spirit532> cheap motors have cheap cogging torque
2019-11-23T23:41:34 < Spirit532> have to adapt
2019-11-23T23:41:44 < sync> don't use cheap motors then
2019-11-23T23:41:55 < sync> or at least reasonable motors
2019-11-23T23:41:55 < Spirit532> you can jump straight off the roof with that suggestion
2019-11-23T23:42:07 < Spirit532> "use an expensive and complicated solution"
2019-11-23T23:42:14 < Spirit532> no shit, I can buy an expensive and complicated solution
2019-11-23T23:42:18 < Spirit532> it's the opposite of what I want
2019-11-23T23:42:29 < sync> you want a shitty solution then
2019-11-23T23:42:32 < sync> 10/10
2019-11-23T23:43:17 < Spirit532> I'm asking for help with this design, not to completely change everything that I already designed
2019-11-23T23:43:33 < sync> sure, but the design is not ideal for what you want
2019-11-23T23:43:36 < Spirit532> if I were to do it the "right right" way, I'd go for 4 layers, three phase shunts, a discrete gate driver, etc
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2019-11-23T23:43:49 < Spirit532> it's not ideal, but I don't want a perfect solution because I know I can't squeeze a perfect solution into this
2019-11-23T23:43:53 < BrainDamage> do you know control theory?
2019-11-23T23:43:55 < sync> and you can relatively easily change it to something that is actually able to utilize a cheap motor well
2019-11-23T23:44:02 < Spirit532> very little, BrainDamage 
2019-11-23T23:44:32 < BrainDamage> laplace transforms and transfer functions?
2019-11-23T23:44:37 < catphish> Spirit532: to answer your previous question, there are many iterations of waveform, 1) 3 sine waves will work, it will get it running 2) you can then increase voltage by changing to a space vector style waveform, which is still a sine wave between phases, but with higher voltage: https://i.stack.imgur.com/FZVFU.png 3) you will then fine that a sine wave isn't actually optimal because of the physical design of the motor, that part i know less 
2019-11-23T23:44:37 < Spirit532> nope
2019-11-23T23:44:37 < catphish> about
2019-11-23T23:45:02 < Spirit532> catphish, that's my current worry
2019-11-23T23:45:16 < Spirit532> sines do make the motor spin, but there's very noticeable cogging and jerkiness 
2019-11-23T23:45:26 < sync> spin your motor with a drill
2019-11-23T23:45:29 < sync> and look at the backemf
2019-11-23T23:45:32 < catphish> ^ this
2019-11-23T23:45:35 < sync> that is the voltage you need to drive it
2019-11-23T23:45:48 < sync> if it is some kind of shitty waveform, well
2019-11-23T23:45:50 < BrainDamage> you can spin the motor with the sine, then disconnect the drive
2019-11-23T23:45:50 < Spirit532> but would a space vector style waveform solve it, or do I have to actually drive some math with some input to generate the space vector waveform?
2019-11-23T23:45:51 < catphish> you can generate the waveform, then reproduce it
2019-11-23T23:45:52 < sync> that motor is gonna suck
2019-11-23T23:46:16 < catphish> space vector is just sine
2019-11-23T23:46:18 < Spirit532> from what I understand I need to give several inputs into the svm generation [code] to do this
2019-11-23T23:46:31 < sync> the SVM will only increase your voltage output
2019-11-23T23:46:40 < catphish> if you look at this: https://i.stack.imgur.com/FZVFU.png it looks crazy, but the voltage between any 2 phases is still a sine wave
2019-11-23T23:46:44 < sync> you still need to control the current somehow
2019-11-23T23:46:58 < sync> which will help with the cogging torque
2019-11-23T23:47:18 < catphish> when i was working with induction motors, i didn't have this problem, they love sine waves
2019-11-23T23:47:46 < sync> you can increase your motor speed by using SVM on induction motors
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2019-11-23T23:47:57 < sync> which is a nice bonus
2019-11-23T23:47:58 < catphish> i'm actually surprised a sine wave doesn't produce "reasonable" results in your motor
2019-11-23T23:48:05 < Spirit532> it's "reasonable"
2019-11-23T23:48:11 < Spirit532> it spins relatively smoothly
2019-11-23T23:48:17 < catphish> ok
2019-11-23T23:48:26 < Spirit532> but the motor itself vibrates significantly enough to be noticeably annoying
2019-11-23T23:48:47 < Cracki> pwm freq is
2019-11-23T23:48:50 < catphish> well, try running it in reverse with a small resistive load, and put a scope on it
2019-11-23T23:49:05 < catphish> i mean, drive the motor with a drill, if you can
2019-11-23T23:49:07 < sync> are you outputting a current or a voltage?
2019-11-23T23:49:08 < catphish> and measure it
2019-11-23T23:49:11 < Spirit532> you can see the cogging here 
2019-11-23T23:49:12 < Spirit532> https://i.spirit.re/LCn4H.png
2019-11-23T23:49:14 < Cracki> how fast do you spin it, it shouldn't vibrate from cogging
2019-11-23T23:49:17 < Spirit532> this is the encoder output
2019-11-23T23:49:35 < Spirit532> the little humps is what I feel
2019-11-23T23:49:40 < Cracki> do you feel it cogging
2019-11-23T23:49:46 < Cracki> or is this just noise from the magnetic encoder
2019-11-23T23:49:56 < Spirit532> the noise is noise
2019-11-23T23:50:01 < Spirit532> the humps is cogging that I feel
2019-11-23T23:50:02 < Cracki> this is once per mechanical or electrical rotation
2019-11-23T23:50:11 < Spirit532> this is a part of a single mechanical revolution
2019-11-23T23:50:13 < Cracki> maybe bake it once more
2019-11-23T23:50:18 < Spirit532> bake what?
2019-11-23T23:50:22 < Cracki> >_>
2019-11-23T23:50:29 < Spirit532> oh
2019-11-23T23:50:32 < BrainDamage> baka
2019-11-23T23:50:34 < Spirit532> no the motor works fine now
2019-11-23T23:50:37 < catphish> there's clearly an uneven speed visible in that chart
2019-11-23T23:50:42 < Spirit532> yes
2019-11-23T23:50:47 < Spirit532> and that's the cogging(?)
2019-11-23T23:50:51 < Spirit532> the motor is not very linear
2019-11-23T23:50:54 < catphish> looks like a stair case
2019-11-23T23:50:58 < Spirit532> that's what I feel
2019-11-23T23:51:06 < Cracki> that's not like any cogging I've ever seen
2019-11-23T23:51:15 < Cracki> looks more like misaligned magnet on the shaft
2019-11-23T23:51:17 < catphish> and you're definitely driving that with a good voltage sine wave?
2019-11-23T23:51:18 < Cracki> or misaligned sensor
2019-11-23T23:51:26 < Spirit532> I'm pretty sure I am
2019-11-23T23:51:33 < Spirit532> well, not sine wave
2019-11-23T23:51:39 < catphish> Spirit532: have you tried different PWM frequencies?
2019-11-23T23:51:45 < Spirit532> let me try again
2019-11-23T23:51:50 < Cracki> what's the pwm freq
2019-11-23T23:51:54 < catphish> Spirit532: i found wildly different results from different pwm frequencies
2019-11-23T23:52:14 < Cracki> the higher it goes, the less time there is in a period, thanks to fixed dead time
2019-11-23T23:52:32 < BrainDamage> you don't need an external drive fwiw, just spin it with sinunoidal or trapezoidal drive, then connect one coil between vdd and gnd without pwm
2019-11-23T23:52:32 < Cracki> also fets take a little to dis/charge gate
2019-11-23T23:52:41 < BrainDamage> you'll get 2 signals superimposed
2019-11-23T23:52:50 < BrainDamage> the motor spinning, and the vdd charging the coil
2019-11-23T23:53:04 < BrainDamage> the latter is pretty deterministic, the first one is the thing you want to measure
2019-11-23T23:53:34 < catphish> you might try a trapezoid instead of a sine wave just for fun, some motors like those
2019-11-23T23:53:40 < catphish> but guessing isn't ideal
2019-11-23T23:53:42 < Spirit532> ok this is interesting
2019-11-23T23:53:48 < Spirit532> that picture was at 10kHz
2019-11-23T23:54:04 < catphish> but IMO the first thing to stab in the dark with should be PWM rate
2019-11-23T23:54:04 < Spirit532> at 1kHz, I can almost not feel the cogging at all, the encoder reflects that
2019-11-23T23:54:10 < Spirit532> at 20kHz it's a little worse than 10kHz
2019-11-23T23:54:19 < Spirit532> so it's probably to do with that?
2019-11-23T23:54:24 < catphish> you may have too much dead time
2019-11-23T23:54:26 < BrainDamage> dead times
2019-11-23T23:54:47 < catphish> let me check what i had success with
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2019-11-23T23:56:05 < Cracki> you want pwm freq to be beyond audible, i.e. above 20 khz
2019-11-23T23:56:19 < Spirit532> okay, wow, this is most definitely the dead time
2019-11-23T23:56:27 < Cracki> anyone who drives motors at 15-16 khz should be shot and his family too
2019-11-23T23:56:28 < Spirit532> dropping it way lower directly affects cogging
2019-11-23T23:56:30 < Spirit532> current goes way up
2019-11-23T23:56:40 < Spirit532> 200mA to 320mA
2019-11-23T23:56:45 < Cracki> the electronics side sounds asymmetric/defective
2019-11-23T23:57:14 < BrainDamage> get mosfets with less gate charge or use a better gate driver
2019-11-23T23:57:16 < Cracki> in any case, the effective pwm output must include dead time
2019-11-23T23:57:29 < Cracki> so how about you add dead time to your pwm calculations to compensate for that
2019-11-23T23:57:32 < BrainDamage> yeah, but that's just a static offset
2019-11-23T23:57:45 < BrainDamage> easily measured and compensated
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2019-11-23T23:57:53 < Spirit532> dropping the dead time to 10 cycles at 18kHz PWM frequency basically eliminated cogging
2019-11-23T23:57:56 < Spirit532> and it's inaudible
2019-11-23T23:57:59 < BrainDamage> the problem of dead time is reacting to control
2019-11-23T23:58:07 < catphish> so, i use 10kHz with a dead time of 62.5ns
2019-11-23T23:58:09 < Cracki> the static offset will shift your pwm output downwards, so your sine gets its valleys chopped off
2019-11-23T23:59:13 < Cracki> children can hear 18 khz. do that too much and you get burning bags of shit on your front door
2019-11-23T23:59:21 < Spirit532> I can hear 18kHz
2019-11-23T23:59:27 < Spirit532> up to 20-24 actually
2019-11-23T23:59:42 < Spirit532> I can hear most switchmode supplies in my house, including monitors and stuff
2019-11-23T23:59:57 < Spirit532> Cracki, which is also why I am a proud proponent of increasing the PWM frequency out of the audible range
--- Day changed Sun Nov 24 2019
2019-11-24T00:00:16 < BrainDamage> you don't typically hear 20-24 per se
2019-11-24T00:00:20 < Spirit532> at 18kHz it's barely a whisper and I can't *feel* any cogging but the encoder shows something
2019-11-24T00:00:27 < BrainDamage> you hear intermodulation with things around it
2019-11-24T00:00:28 < Spirit532> https://i.spirit.re/wsjuk.png
2019-11-24T00:00:32 < Spirit532> a veeeery slight something
2019-11-24T00:00:41 < catphish> Spirit532: so mine uses a clock of 80MHz, an ARR of 8192 (approx 10khz) and a dead time of 5 cycles
2019-11-24T00:00:53 < catphish> Spirit532: seems like you're having success with similar
2019-11-24T00:00:53 < Spirit532> I'm at 48MHz
2019-11-24T00:01:21 < Cracki> 8 khz, these fuckers: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YO9v5-fYbGw&t=3s
2019-11-24T00:01:31 < Cracki> kuka's control loop actually runs at 8 khz
2019-11-24T00:01:37 < Spirit532> I KNOW
2019-11-24T00:01:55 < Spirit532> thankfully I have a kuka robot with inaudible servo drives
2019-11-24T00:02:02 < aandrew> hey I've got equipment on a bunch of kukas
2019-11-24T00:02:17 < Spirit532> my KR3 has built-in drives that operate way out of audible
2019-11-24T00:02:43 < catphish> my 5 cycles is 63ns, your 10 cycles is 200ns, you might be able to reduce it further, just keep an eye on your switch temperatures
2019-11-24T00:02:47 < Spirit532> anyway, I think that sort of fixed the fake cogging
2019-11-24T00:03:18 < Spirit532> https://i.spirit.re/om1YC.png
2019-11-24T00:03:22 < Spirit532> it's not going down further than this
2019-11-24T00:03:22 < catphish> Spirit532: anyway, glad you're getting good results, you can now take it as far as you like, i strongly recommend switching from sine to SVM wave, it's the same but higher voltage
2019-11-24T00:03:37 < Spirit532> this seems way too easy
2019-11-24T00:03:41 < Spirit532> I'm missing something aren't I?
2019-11-24T00:03:48 < catphish> Spirit532: then if you want, you can analyse the motor to see what waveform it actually wants, but meh, sine wave usually works
2019-11-24T00:03:49 < Spirit532> I can't just generate a waveform and limit the total current
2019-11-24T00:03:58 < Spirit532> can I?
2019-11-24T00:04:20 < BrainDamage> attach an asymmetrial load and see how good your control works
2019-11-24T00:04:30 < catphish> Spirit532: yes, you can, no scheme will be perfect, but doing a voltage waveform, and PID current control will work
2019-11-24T00:04:34 < Spirit532> I have zero control right now lol
2019-11-24T00:05:00 < Spirit532> now I need to map the output of the encoder to %polecount% segments, right?
2019-11-24T00:05:19 < Spirit532> since there's %polecount% 360-degree seeps per turn
2019-11-24T00:05:23 < Spirit532> sweeps*
2019-11-24T00:05:41 < catphish> in fact, it will work with zero current control, but current control lets you use more voltage at higher speed, and reduce the voltage when it's stalled to avoid burning it
2019-11-24T00:05:51 < Spirit532> that's the goal here
2019-11-24T00:05:58 < Spirit532> scale the current with speed, limit maximum
2019-11-24T00:06:13 < Spirit532> though there's one other issue I'm seeing right now, and that's stall current/stall torque
2019-11-24T00:06:15 < catphish> no, you want constant current
2019-11-24T00:06:20 < catphish> regardless of speed
2019-11-24T00:06:23 < Spirit532> scale PWM, sorry
2019-11-24T00:06:28 < Spirit532> current drops as speed increases 
2019-11-24T00:06:29 < BrainDamage> the typical setup is 2 tier loops
2019-11-24T00:06:36 < BrainDamage> one in current and one in speed/voltage
2019-11-24T00:06:50 < catphish> right, you can just use a simple: voltage = rotational speed * x + 
2019-11-24T00:06:51 < BrainDamage> first one regulates the torque, the second position
2019-11-24T00:06:57 < catphish> voltage = rotational speed * x + y
2019-11-24T00:07:00 < Spirit532> the switches are happy with 5 cycles of deadtime
2019-11-24T00:07:21 < Spirit532> at 18kHz PWM, no noise
2019-11-24T00:07:25 < BrainDamage> ( remember to integrate the speed to get the position 0
2019-11-24T00:07:37 < catphish> where x and y are chosen such that it has torque at no speed, but doesn't burn, and max voltage at max speed
2019-11-24T00:07:58 < catphish> he has an absolute position sensor, no integtating
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2019-11-24T00:08:16 < BrainDamage> right, forgot
2019-11-24T00:08:23 < catphish> you can just differentiate position to get speed, and use that to calculate voltage :)
2019-11-24T00:08:38 < catphish> or... do a PID based on your current shunt
2019-11-24T00:08:49 < BrainDamage> I'd recommend the 2 tier pid
2019-11-24T00:09:05 < BrainDamage> you might want to smooth the differentiation btw
2019-11-24T00:09:15 < catphish> always use the current shunt as a soft fuse to kill it if your calculations go wrong and current gets too high
2019-11-24T00:09:30 < Spirit532> in this case that's going to be the fets
2019-11-24T00:09:36 < Spirit532> if the fets blow up, no current can flow!
2019-11-24T00:09:52 < BrainDamage> you can freewheel the motor
2019-11-24T00:10:11 < BrainDamage> activate alternately both upper or both lower mos
2019-11-24T00:10:14 < catphish> right, but before that happens, use the shunt current sensor to shut it down if your ADC detects too much current
2019-11-24T00:10:59 < Spirit532> yep, if it detects overcurrent the motor will fall into a non-recoverable failure state
2019-11-24T00:11:02 < BrainDamage> that'll act as a very effective bake and as well spread the power dissipate between both mos
2019-11-24T00:11:21 < catphish> motor control can be as complicated as you like, but if you feed a motor with a sine wave at 90 degrees to the magnet, all motors will work :)
2019-11-24T00:11:39 < Spirit532> how do I generate the SVM waveform?
2019-11-24T00:11:48 < Spirit532> is it just a lookup table, or is there some math I can do?
2019-11-24T00:11:52 < Spirit532> (someone else has done)
2019-11-24T00:12:29 < catphish> i do it like this: https://github.com/catphish/stm32_vfd/blob/master/generate_table.rb
2019-11-24T00:12:42 < Spirit532> I saw that script
2019-11-24T00:12:46 < Spirit532> but I also don't have ruby
2019-11-24T00:12:49 < catphish> generate 3 sine waves, find the minimum value of the 3, and subtract that value from all three
2019-11-24T00:13:01 < catphish> then scale them back up
2019-11-24T00:13:32 < Cracki> translate to python
2019-11-24T00:13:34 < Spirit532> I'd prefer to do that at runtime, since this thing only has 48k of flash but plenty of ram left
2019-11-24T00:13:42 < Spirit532> but that looks... portable?
2019-11-24T00:13:53 < catphish> you can do it during startup
2019-11-24T00:14:02 < catphish> it's not hard, just generate 3 sine waves, like you do now
2019-11-24T00:14:16 < catphish> for each position, find the minimum of the three, and subtract it from all three
2019-11-24T00:15:09 < Spirit532> right
2019-11-24T00:15:52 < catphish> so if your 3 values are -0.5, -0.5, 1.0 (which they will be at some point), find the minimum (-0.5) and subtract it from all three, so you get 0, 0, 1.5
2019-11-24T00:16:09 < Cracki> right... the way they described it, only two vectors are engaged at one time.
2019-11-24T00:17:11 < Spirit532> if I leave the code running as-is, if you squint really hard, you can even think that it's just a servo doing very slow rotations.
2019-11-24T00:18:12 < catphish> anyway, after this transformations, your sine values will range from 0 to 1.5 instead of -1 to 1
2019-11-24T00:18:28 < Spirit532> isn't that... not good?
2019-11-24T00:18:33 < Spirit532> don't I want to go from -1 to 1?
2019-11-24T00:18:51 < catphish> you need to map it to your timer of course
2019-11-24T00:18:59 < catphish> i assume right now you go from 0 to 1024 or similar
2019-11-24T00:19:11 < Spirit532> it's in the middle
2019-11-24T00:19:17 < Spirit532> since I go negative as well
2019-11-24T00:19:19 < Spirit532> for full sine
2019-11-24T00:19:44 < catphish> the point is... you map your -1 to 1 onto new values 0 to 1024
2019-11-24T00:20:10 < catphish> that doesn't change, you just map the new values (0 to 1.5) onto 0-1024, if anything it's easier maths
2019-11-24T00:20:29 < Spirit532> https://i.spirit.re/4RpNe.txt
2019-11-24T00:20:32 < Spirit532> this is what I'm doing right now
2019-11-24T00:20:41 < Spirit532> not mapping, but just adding or subtracting from half
2019-11-24T00:20:57 < Spirit532> since all the phases are at a virtual zero
2019-11-24T00:21:24 < catphish> yes, i see
2019-11-24T00:21:37 < catphish> well the absolute value isn't important
2019-11-24T00:21:43 < catphish> so you can just make 0 = 0
2019-11-24T00:22:15 < catphish> and work out your multiplier so that 1.5 becomes HF_TIMX_ARR
2019-11-24T00:22:27 < Spirit532> that's what confuses me, should I only go positive with SVM?
2019-11-24T00:22:33 < Spirit532> or should 0 go to true 0
2019-11-24T00:22:59 < catphish> there is no negative
2019-11-24T00:23:12 < catphish> adding HF_TIMX_ARR/2 ensures that all your values are positive
2019-11-24T00:23:33 < Spirit532> yeah, but the virtual values are negative, and they stay the same with SVM, just different shapes, right?
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2019-11-24T00:23:48 < catphish> well sure
2019-11-24T00:24:00 < Spirit532> right, I was confused there for a moment
2019-11-24T00:24:05 < Spirit532> so I'm just replacing sin with svm
2019-11-24T00:24:07 < catphish> but know that the zero in the middle has no real meaning
2019-11-24T00:25:01 < catphish> the problem is that my method causes the waveform to sit so that the bottom is at zero
2019-11-24T00:25:07 < catphish> (instead of the middle being at zero)
2019-11-24T00:25:17 < Spirit532> so I just subtract half
2019-11-24T00:25:44 < catphish> if you prefer, you can move it back by just subtracting 0.75 from everything
2019-11-24T00:26:01 < Spirit532> 0.75?
2019-11-24T00:26:10 < catphish> that's the half way point of 0 and 1.5
2019-11-24T00:26:29 < Spirit532> oh, 1.5
2019-11-24T00:26:32 < Spirit532> I go from 0 to 1
2019-11-24T00:26:37 < Spirit532> or -1 to 1
2019-11-24T00:26:44 < catphish> let me start over
2019-11-24T00:26:57 < catphish> 1) you have a sine wave with values -1 to 1
2019-11-24T00:27:04 < Spirit532> mhm
2019-11-24T00:27:17 < catphish> sorry do-over1
2019-11-24T00:27:33 < catphish> 1) you generate 3 sine waves, wth 120 degree offsets, with values -1 to 1
2019-11-24T00:27:53 < catphish> 2) at each point in time, you find the minimum of the 3 values, and subtract it from all three
2019-11-24T00:28:16 < catphish> 3) the resulting 3 waves will have values ranging from 0 to 1.5
2019-11-24T00:28:55 < kakipr0> is lurence alive?
2019-11-24T00:28:57 < catphish> you now have 2 options
2019-11-24T00:29:36 < catphish> option 1) multiply these values by a constant so that the range 0-1.5 becomes your PWM range (such as 0-2047)
2019-11-24T00:30:16 < catphish> option 2) subtract 0.75 from all values, so that you have a waveform with values -0.75 to +0.75, then scale it, and finally add HF_TIMX_ARR/2 back to it
2019-11-24T00:32:00 < catphish> i use option 1, but i actually prefer option 2, because it makes it easier to avoid the (undesirable) situation of using the extreme PWM values (you will get weird effects when CCRn < dedtime or CCRn > HF_TIMX_ARR-deadtime, it's best to stay within that range
2019-11-24T00:33:07 < Cracki> catphish, are you sure you subtract the minimum? I get weird shapes when I do that literally: https://imgur.com/ALFEuEq
2019-11-24T00:33:33 < catphish> yeah no that's wrong :(
2019-11-24T00:33:52 < catphish> but i'm not sure why
2019-11-24T00:33:55 < Spirit532> Cracki, that's not 120deg apart though, is it?
2019-11-24T00:33:56 < catphish> lemme try in localc
2019-11-24T00:33:59 < Cracki> right!
2019-11-24T00:34:23 < catphish> oh yeah, it only works if they're 120 degrees apart
2019-11-24T00:34:26 < catphish> make a new one :)
2019-11-24T00:34:28 < Cracki> better: https://imgur.com/nbU4IrH
2019-11-24T00:34:41 < catphish> perfect :)
2019-11-24T00:34:54 < Cracki> that explains the plot I saw earlier that wasn't explained
2019-11-24T00:34:55 < catphish> also, note that i was wrong about the 1.5 and the 0.75
2019-11-24T00:35:04 < Spirit532> 0.75?
2019-11-24T00:35:24 < catphish> the max value is actually sqrt(3)
2019-11-24T00:35:40 < catphish> the range is not 0 to 1.5
2019-11-24T00:35:58 < catphish> it's 0 - 1.732050808
2019-11-24T00:37:10 < catphish> by the way, i seriously recommend using a pre-computed table if your memory can take it
2019-11-24T00:37:29 < Spirit532> why so?
2019-11-24T00:37:44 < Spirit532> I can't imagine this will take many cycles to compute
2019-11-24T00:37:54 < Cracki> f0 has no fpu
2019-11-24T00:37:54 < Spirit532> my flash can't take it, RAM might?
2019-11-24T00:37:59 < Cracki> wat
2019-11-24T00:38:01 < Cracki> your flash can
2019-11-24T00:38:06 < Cracki> flash before ram
2019-11-24T00:38:11 < Spirit532> hal's fucking huge
2019-11-24T00:38:21 < catphish> no good reason, just seems a huge waste of cycles calculating 3 sine waves and 3 floating point multiplications on every cycle
2019-11-24T00:38:22 < Cracki> anyway, sure you can do this at runtime
2019-11-24T00:38:26 < Spirit532> I've barely written any code and I'm already at 80%
2019-11-24T00:38:29 < Cracki> but three sin() calculations can take a few cycles
2019-11-24T00:38:43 < catphish> do you have an FPU, if so, you might be okay
2019-11-24T00:38:57 < catphish> i originally wrote my code on an arduino, so i had no choice
2019-11-24T00:39:11 < catphish> stm32 with FPU can obviously handle it, since it works for you
2019-11-24T00:39:16 < Spirit532> no fpu on the stm32f031
2019-11-24T00:39:18 < catphish> but i don't like it much
2019-11-24T00:39:40 < Spirit532> what if I use huge values and drop floating altogether?
2019-11-24T00:39:42 < catphish> ok, well be aware that 3 sine calculations and 3 floating point multiplications will take a LOT of cycles
2019-11-24T00:39:59 < Spirit532> I should probably just calculate it on startup and dump it into ram
2019-11-24T00:40:04 < Cracki> arduino's libc takes a few hundred cycles for most float ops but on a cortex m you're probably fast enough
2019-11-24T00:40:15 < Cracki> there is no way around sin()
2019-11-24T00:40:23 < Spirit532> said the pastor
2019-11-24T00:40:29 < Cracki> you can premultiply stuff and write integers to flash
2019-11-24T00:40:31 < catphish> i would absolutely use large values, then just bit shift them into the timer registers
2019-11-24T00:40:41 < catphish> he is short of flash
2019-11-24T00:40:46 < Cracki> integer multiplication is cheap in any case
2019-11-24T00:40:46 < Spirit532> I am super short of flash
2019-11-24T00:40:47 < catphish> but you can precalculate them at boot into RAM
2019-11-24T00:40:56 < catphish> well forget that for now
2019-11-24T00:41:00 < catphish> if your way works, it's fine
2019-11-24T00:41:02 < Spirit532> one of the very few stupid decisions the designers of the stspin32f0a did
2019-11-24T00:41:03 < Cracki> are you short of 90 values?
2019-11-24T00:41:06 < catphish> but making a sine table is easy
2019-11-24T00:41:08 < Spirit532> is only include 32768k of flash
2019-11-24T00:41:13 < Spirit532> actually.. 32k?
2019-11-24T00:41:18 < Cracki> you need 90 degrees for a full sine curve
2019-11-24T00:41:26 < catphish> how many values does your encoder give you?
2019-11-24T00:41:26 < Spirit532> yeah 32k of flash and 4k sram
2019-11-24T00:41:29 < Spirit532> catphish, 4096
2019-11-24T00:41:30 < Spirit532> 12b
2019-11-24T00:41:47 < Cracki> and who's to say that you run in 1-degree increments
2019-11-24T00:41:54 < Cracki> you can do 5/6/10/12/15 or whatever
2019-11-24T00:41:59 < Cracki> and interpolate if you need more
2019-11-24T00:42:01 < Spirit532> I run in 1/4096th degree increments
2019-11-24T00:42:09 < catphish> anyway, forget it, if your way works, it works
2019-11-24T00:42:15 < Spirit532> I haven't settled on a way yet
2019-11-24T00:42:18 < Cracki> 1/4096th degree? no.
2019-11-24T00:42:18 < Spirit532> you fill me with doubt!
2019-11-24T00:42:19 < catphish> but... it's possible it *doesn't* work and you're missing updates
2019-11-24T00:42:29 < catphish> you wouldn't really know
2019-11-24T00:42:48 < Spirit532> do I need a full 360 degree cycle of svm stored?
2019-11-24T00:42:52 < Spirit532> or just 90 and tripling that
2019-11-24T00:44:08 < catphish> unfortunately... you can't get 1/3 of any binary number
2019-11-24T00:44:32 < Spirit532> plus or minus a count
2019-11-24T00:44:33 < Cracki> * ((1<<shift)/3) >> shift
2019-11-24T00:45:40 < catphish> anyway, a full table would take 18KB, not worth it
2019-11-24T00:45:49 < Cracki> 90 values
2019-11-24T00:45:53 < Cracki> how do you get 18 kb
2019-11-24T00:45:53 < catphish> 90?
2019-11-24T00:45:55 < Cracki> at what spacing
2019-11-24T00:46:05 < Cracki> you need one quadrant, that's enough to figure the whole circle
2019-11-24T00:46:06 < catphish> 4096 values * 2 bytes * 3 waves
2019-11-24T00:46:09 < catphish> that's a worst case
2019-11-24T00:46:18 < Cracki> 4096 for a mechanical revolution
2019-11-24T00:46:21 < Cracki> he's got four poles
2019-11-24T00:46:31 < Cracki> so 1024 values per electrical revolution
2019-11-24T00:46:37 < Cracki> so 256 per electrical quadrant
2019-11-24T00:46:53 < Cracki> and he needs one wave. he can figure the rest from shifting and mirroring
2019-11-24T00:46:54 < catphish> oh yeah, if you have 4 poles you can immediately disregard the 2 MSB from the encoder
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2019-11-24T00:47:01 < Cracki> and he could do the subtraction at runtime
2019-11-24T00:47:19 < Cracki> lack of fpu only means no floats, +-*/ on ints is cheap
2019-11-24T00:47:32 < catphish> so, you could just store 1024 16 bit ints
2019-11-24T00:47:40 < Spirit532> or 2k of ram
2019-11-24T00:47:54 < Spirit532>  /flash
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2019-11-24T00:48:12 < Cracki> and all of that is supposing you don't want to run at lower resolutions, which would make sense given the magnetic encoder probably has noise
2019-11-24T00:48:27 < Cracki> 256 ints
2019-11-24T00:48:31 < catphish> frankly, i'd reduce it by 1/2 without even thinking
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2019-11-24T00:48:43 < Spirit532> it's supposed to be a position control servo
2019-11-24T00:48:57 < Spirit532> so I'm not sure if I should slash the already low 12 bit resolution in half
2019-11-24T00:49:04 < Cracki> motor. so far there is no servoing
2019-11-24T00:49:12 < Cracki> 6 bits? better not
2019-11-24T00:49:16 < Spirit532> there's only one encoder 
2019-11-24T00:49:22 < catphish> bad news
2019-11-24T00:49:34 < catphish> there's no way you can position a rotor with that degree of accuracy
2019-11-24T00:49:39 < Spirit532> oh I'm aware
2019-11-24T00:49:51 < Spirit532> but at least 1000 steps per revolution is pretty much required 
2019-11-24T00:49:56 < Cracki> just do your sin() at runtime. it'll be cheap enough
2019-11-24T00:49:56 < Spirit532> steppers can do that
2019-11-24T00:50:19 < Cracki> and if you must, store an integer sin() table. one quadrant is enough. the min() calculation is very cheap at runtime
2019-11-24T00:50:33 < Spirit532> I wonder if there's some clever trick to do all of this at runtime without floats
2019-11-24T00:50:34 < Cracki> steppers are built to do that
2019-11-24T00:50:36 < catphish> steppers do like 128 microsteps max
2019-11-24T00:50:43 < Spirit532> yes, but 128*400 is...
2019-11-24T00:50:45 < Cracki> dude, that's what we're talking about
2019-11-24T00:50:48 < Spirit532> or 128*200
2019-11-24T00:50:58 < Cracki> there are native 1000 step steppers
2019-11-24T00:50:58 < catphish> wait...
2019-11-24T00:51:00 < catphish> hold up
2019-11-24T00:51:02 < Cracki> arcane stuff
2019-11-24T00:51:10 < Spirit532> steppers have 200 or 400 full steps per revolution
2019-11-24T00:51:19 < Spirit532> microstepping slices each step in counts
2019-11-24T00:51:21 < Cracki> that's just pole count
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2019-11-24T00:51:25 < Spirit532> usually 32 is the practical limit
2019-11-24T00:51:29 < catphish> you only have 4 poles
2019-11-24T00:51:32 < Cracki> a 200 step stepper has 50 poles
2019-11-24T00:51:38 < Cracki> you have 4 poles, you basically have a 16-step stepper
2019-11-24T00:51:44 < Cracki> more or less
2019-11-24T00:51:46 < Spirit532> ish
2019-11-24T00:51:58 < Spirit532> no pole teeth, steppers are quite literally designed to cog
2019-11-24T00:52:07 < Cracki> nope
2019-11-24T00:52:19 < Cracki> a good stepper has little detent torque
2019-11-24T00:52:35 < Spirit532> energized it's the opposite
2019-11-24T00:52:35 < catphish> 4 poles gives you 16 steps, with microstepping, you might achieve 128-256 total positions per revolution
2019-11-24T00:52:35 < Cracki> because detent torque (cogging) interferes with microstepping
2019-11-24T00:52:45 < Spirit532> catphish, but I have an absolute encoder
2019-11-24T00:52:54 < Spirit532> if I were doing it blind, I'd be stupid
2019-11-24T00:53:00 < Spirit532> but there's an encoder telling me EXACTLY where I am
2019-11-24T00:53:03 < Cracki> you can achieve encoder resolution when, WHEN, you do position control
2019-11-24T00:53:09 < Spirit532> yes
2019-11-24T00:53:10 < catphish> Spirit532: you're right, you can adjust your field dynamically
2019-11-24T00:53:16 < Cracki> i.e. PID control on deviation from target position
2019-11-24T00:53:16 < catphish> that might work
2019-11-24T00:53:20 < Spirit532> that's at the position PID stage
2019-11-24T00:53:35 < Spirit532> right now I'm at the SVM stage
2019-11-24T00:53:38 < Spirit532> generating dumb waveforms
2019-11-24T00:53:50 < catphish> well...
2019-11-24T00:53:50 < Cracki> svm isn't just dumb waveforms :P
2019-11-24T00:53:57 < Spirit532> clever waveforms
2019-11-24T00:54:06 < Cracki> afaik svm also implies current control
2019-11-24T00:54:14 < Cracki> but eh
2019-11-24T00:54:19 < Spirit532> as catphish demonstrated it doesn't quite 
2019-11-24T00:54:23 < Spirit532> the WAVEFORMS don't
2019-11-24T00:54:25 < Spirit532> the actual SVM does
2019-11-24T00:54:28 < Cracki> drive it first, next step when you come to it
2019-11-24T00:54:35 < catphish> this definitely brings up the benefit of calculating the sin() on the fly
2019-11-24T00:54:38 < catphish> so stick with it for now
2019-11-24T00:54:42 < catphish> optimize later :)
2019-11-24T00:54:45 < Spirit532> ok, so sin() on the fly
2019-11-24T00:54:49 < Spirit532> what next
2019-11-24T00:54:55 < Spirit532> finding the minimum 
2019-11-24T00:55:27 < Cracki> u=; v=; w=; m=min(u,min(v,w)); u-=m; v-=m; w-=m;
2019-11-24T00:56:24 < catphish> i should bring up at this point, you could so SVM the tradition way, rather than my hacky precomputed way
2019-11-24T00:56:30 < Cracki> fuck macros... m = min(u,v); m = min(m,w);
2019-11-24T00:56:31 < Spirit532> which is?
2019-11-24T00:56:32 < catphish> since you're not precomputing anyway
2019-11-24T00:57:08 < catphish> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Space_vector_modulation
2019-11-24T00:57:09 < Spirit532> doesn't actual SVM require control inputs
2019-11-24T00:57:33 < catphish> SVM is just working out where you are in a circle, and calculating outputs accordingly
2019-11-24T00:58:00 < Spirit532> for that I need to do and store calibration
2019-11-24T00:58:12 < catphish> frankly, i find it too much maths, hence my subtration hack that yields the same result
2019-11-24T00:58:13 < Spirit532> figuring out where the magnet on the shaft is relative to the sensor which is relative to the back of the motor
2019-11-24T00:58:32 < Spirit532> I'll have to do that anyway, but in an easier, more hacky way
2019-11-24T00:58:36 < catphish> anyway, lets stick to my way, because it's simple
2019-11-24T00:58:54 < catphish> generate your 3 sine values, find the minimum, subtract from all three
2019-11-24T00:59:22 < catphish> Cracki supplied code :)
2019-11-24T00:59:42 < Cracki> SIN
2019-11-24T01:01:14 < catphish> then subtract 0.866025404 from all 3 values, scale them, and add HF_TIMX_ARR/2 as you did before
2019-11-24T01:01:28 < catphish> the only difference is you will be able to scale them larger now without clipping
2019-11-24T01:02:07 < Spirit532> doubles don't suffer the same flop penalty, right?
2019-11-24T01:02:34 < catphish> the what?
2019-11-24T01:02:40 < Spirit532> floating point operation
2019-11-24T01:02:44 < Cracki> doubles are worse than floats
2019-11-24T01:03:12 < Spirit532> wait, right
2019-11-24T01:03:15 < Spirit532> double precision
2019-11-24T01:03:16 < Cracki> what made you think a float twice the size would calculate quicker
2019-11-24T01:03:25 < Cracki> is it this time of night already
2019-11-24T01:03:28 < Spirit532> lack of sleep
2019-11-24T01:03:36 < Cracki> *kookaburra*
2019-11-24T01:04:16 < qyx> night what?
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2019-11-24T01:04:52 < Cracki> that's when solar panels turn into dumb rocks
2019-11-24T01:05:02 < Spirit532> moonlight is light
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2019-11-24T01:05:34 < Cracki> awoo
2019-11-24T01:06:42 < Mangy_Dog> awwooo
2019-11-24T01:06:56 < gregorian> Cracki: what is awoo ???
2019-11-24T01:07:08 < Cracki> you missed the moonlight
2019-11-24T01:07:57 < catphish> Spirit532: anyway, do the transformation, if you don't fully understand it, model it in a spreadsheet first
2019-11-24T01:08:02 < Spirit532> https://i.spirit.re/Jq3wJ.png
2019-11-24T01:08:06 < Spirit532> does this look right to you?
2019-11-24T01:08:12 < Cracki> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q_c5lFg6Nic
2019-11-24T01:08:13 < catphish> Spirit532: then finally, look at current limiting
2019-11-24T01:08:32 < catphish> Spirit532: yes
2019-11-24T01:08:44 < Cracki> boobies
2019-11-24T01:12:01 < catphish> Spirit532: now just scale that so it fits within your PWM range
2019-11-24T01:12:40 < catphish> i'd suggest making: deadtime+1 < value < HF_TIMX_ARR-deadtime-1
2019-11-24T01:13:49 < catphish> although... sitting it at zero should be fine
2019-11-24T01:14:18 < catphish> so: 0 <= value < HF_TIMX_ARR - deadtime
2019-11-24T01:15:13 < catphish> you want to avoid the switches being left in the "on" position for too long, as this can cause problems with switching, leaving them off should be fine
2019-11-24T01:16:14 < catphish> right now, that chart goes up to about 360, which likely is nowhere near your HF_TIMX_ARR - deadtime
2019-11-24T01:16:21 < catphish> Spirit532: ^
2019-11-24T01:16:27 < Spirit532> yeah
2019-11-24T01:16:29 < Spirit532> working on it
2019-11-24T01:16:31 < catphish> cool
2019-11-24T01:16:35 < qyx> leaky bootstrap leaks
2019-11-24T01:16:41 < qyx> da da
2019-11-24T01:16:53 < catphish> indeed
2019-11-24T01:17:17 < catphish> so basically, that graph you have is perfect, just scale it a bit higher
2019-11-24T01:17:24 < catphish> and don't bother trying to "center" it
2019-11-24T01:18:46 < catphish> you'll be very disapointed after doing all this, because it will change nothing, you'll just have slightly more voltage, but that's a huge benefit in the long run
2019-11-24T01:19:16 < catphish> and this transformation will work on any waveform you want to use later, it will just maximize the voltage :)
2019-11-24T01:20:28 < catphish> you have a working product now regardless :)
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2019-11-24T01:33:21 < qyx> https://i.imgur.com/oHwcdJI.png
2019-11-24T01:33:25 < qyx> thats not gonna work
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2019-11-24T01:42:28 < Spirit532> that's odd
2019-11-24T01:42:37 < Spirit532> catphish, sanity check?
2019-11-24T01:43:02 < Spirit532> here's the code
2019-11-24T01:43:22 < Spirit532> https://i.spirit.re/T9WxG.png
2019-11-24T01:43:24 < Spirit532> here's what I get
2019-11-24T01:43:36 < Spirit532> it's definitely wrong, but how and why
2019-11-24T01:44:22 < Spirit532> it's not going negative either
2019-11-24T01:45:32 < Spirit532> ok, the offset is now an obvious mistake, I just added 0.86602540 instead of subtracting it
2019-11-24T01:45:36 < Spirit532> but why is it not going negative...
2019-11-24T01:45:52 < Spirit532> since it's supposed to be like this
2019-11-24T01:45:53 < Spirit532> https://microchip.wdfiles.com/local--files/mct5001:introduction/zsmwaveform1.png
2019-11-24T01:47:52 < Spirit532> Cracki, compare the two waveforms too
2019-11-24T01:47:54 < Cracki> good point, it needs some signum
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2019-11-24T01:48:07 < Spirit532> wait, where?
2019-11-24T01:48:12 < Spirit532> it's missing the bottom completely
2019-11-24T01:48:55 < Spirit532> it's almost like it's half a period
2019-11-24T01:49:28 < Spirit532> wait, no, it is half a period
2019-11-24T01:49:39 < catphish> Spirit532: just stop adding anything to it
2019-11-24T01:49:47 < catphish> leave the bottom at ero
2019-11-24T01:49:49 < catphish> *zero
2019-11-24T01:49:59 < Spirit532> but that's wrong though
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2019-11-24T01:50:23 < catphish> wrong how?
2019-11-24T01:51:52 < Spirit532> it's half the period and missing the bottom completely
2019-11-24T01:52:17 < Cracki> catphish, it shouldn't be rectified as it is
2019-11-24T01:52:39 < Cracki> it should look like his microchip link
2019-11-24T01:52:51 < catphish> mine doesn't have those bumps at the bottom
2019-11-24T01:52:54 < Cracki> subtracting minimum not good enough
2019-11-24T01:52:56 < catphish> it just sits at 0v
2019-11-24T01:53:10 < Spirit532> because you're driving a unipolar signal
2019-11-24T01:53:11 < Cracki> that thing is normalized to 0..1
2019-11-24T01:53:14 < Spirit532> I'm guessing
2019-11-24T01:53:22 < Cracki> it was from -1.73..+1.73 or something
2019-11-24T01:53:28 < Cracki> negative current, obviously
2019-11-24T01:53:32 < Spirit532> the scale doesn't matter, the content does
2019-11-24T01:53:39 < Spirit532> it's half the period, the bottom is cut off, like a diode
2019-11-24T01:53:49 < Spirit532> if I ran this, the current would be huge
2019-11-24T01:54:00 < Spirit532> since it just drives the coils down hard
2019-11-24T01:54:15 < catphish> err
2019-11-24T01:54:42 < Spirit532> the waveform needs to continue for the bottom period
2019-11-24T01:54:52 < Spirit532> see the microchip link
2019-11-24T01:54:56 < catphish> there is no bottom period
2019-11-24T01:55:04 < Spirit532> see the microchip link
2019-11-24T01:55:13 < Spirit532> your waveform is half of that
2019-11-24T01:55:17 < Spirit532> it stops at 0.5
2019-11-24T01:55:48 < catphish> my waveform goes from 0 to sqrt(3)
2019-11-24T01:55:56 < Spirit532> it stops at a virtual 0.5
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2019-11-24T01:56:24 < jadew> does china have a lot of hackers or it's just the government?
2019-11-24T01:56:53 < jadew> like... "hacker" being a government job
2019-11-24T01:57:00 < catphish> Spirit532: just to clarify, my waveform is just a sine wave, that's been moved up and down abslutely, the relative voltage between phases is exactly  the same as the original waveform
2019-11-24T01:57:06 < catphish> my calculation moves all 3 by the same amount
2019-11-24T01:57:16 < Cracki> jadew, every prc hackerspace is govt fundet
2019-11-24T01:57:17 < Cracki> d
2019-11-24T01:57:38 < catphish> the graph you pasted looks correct, but offset positively for no reason
2019-11-24T01:57:44 < Spirit532> yes
2019-11-24T01:57:48 < catphish> that flat bottom should be at zero
2019-11-24T01:57:49 < jadew> Cracki, yeah, but those deal with electronics, right?
2019-11-24T01:57:49 < Spirit532> but yours is missing below 0.5
2019-11-24T01:57:54 < Cracki> lol
2019-11-24T01:57:57 < catphish> oh
2019-11-24T01:58:02 < Cracki> hacking is itsec hacking
2019-11-24T01:58:05 -!- gregorian [~volno@chello085216193138.chello.sk] has quit []
2019-11-24T01:58:08 < Cracki> in that sense at least
2019-11-24T01:58:13 < catphish> well it should go from 0 to 1.7
2019-11-24T01:58:20 < jadew> I see
2019-11-24T01:58:24 < catphish> if it doesn't, the code is wrong
2019-11-24T01:58:27 < catphish> Spirit532: can you paste the code?
2019-11-24T01:58:28 < Cracki> electronics fuckery falls under commercial applications
2019-11-24T01:59:07 < Spirit532> https://i.spirit.re/9VYIx.txt
2019-11-24T01:59:08 < Spirit532> here
2019-11-24T01:59:12 < catphish> just calculate 3 sine waves, find the min(), subtract from all three
2019-11-24T01:59:55 < Cracki> catphish, according to https://www.motioncontroltips.com/what-is-space-vector-pulse-width-modulation-svpwm/ that may not be enough
2019-11-24T02:00:00 < catphish> ok, lets simplify this, get rid of: pN -= 0.86602540;
2019-11-24T02:00:15 < catphish> and get rid of HF_TIMX_ARR/2 + 
2019-11-24T02:00:18 < catphish> both are redundant
2019-11-24T02:00:39 < catphish> after that your waveforms should sit nicely on zero
2019-11-24T02:00:57 < Spirit532> doesn't matter
2019-11-24T02:01:01 < Spirit532> it's still CLIPPED BELOW ZERO
2019-11-24T02:01:08 < catphish> yes
2019-11-24T02:01:10 < Spirit532> it can't be clipped below zero
2019-11-24T02:01:17 < catphish> well no, it's not clipped per-se
2019-11-24T02:01:18 < Spirit532> the bottom part also needs to exist
2019-11-24T02:01:23 < Spirit532> that's the problem
2019-11-24T02:01:27 < catphish> it's movedo so that there is nothing below zero
2019-11-24T02:01:33 < catphish> the bottom part does exist
2019-11-24T02:01:36 < catphish> it's just moved up
2019-11-24T02:01:37 < Spirit532> where?
2019-11-24T02:02:01 < catphish> if you don't believe me... which many people wouldn't
2019-11-24T02:02:10 < catphish> choose any 2 phases
2019-11-24T02:02:12 < Spirit532> how do you get from the top waveform to the bottom waveform
2019-11-24T02:02:13 < Spirit532> https://jp.mathworks.com/help/physmod/sps/ref/pwm_three_phase_two_level_continuous.png
2019-11-24T02:02:15 < catphish> sutract one from the other
2019-11-24T02:02:20 < catphish> you will get your sine wave back
2019-11-24T02:02:23 < Spirit532> that's all that needs to happen
2019-11-24T02:02:32 < Spirit532> in your code only the top part is there
2019-11-24T02:02:34 < Spirit532> which is half ofit
2019-11-24T02:02:59 < Spirit532> you've generated the top half of it, now there needs to also be a bottom
2019-11-24T02:03:01 < catphish> seriously, you moved all 3 waves by the same amount
2019-11-24T02:03:13 < catphish> i don't understand how you think anything could have gone missing
2019-11-24T02:03:16 < Spirit532> yes, but there needs to be a bottom
2019-11-24T02:03:27 < Spirit532> just moving the 3 waves doesn't generate the right signal
2019-11-24T02:03:36 < catphish> there is a bottom, it's just moving around
2019-11-24T02:03:48 < catphish> how are you defining the right signal
2019-11-24T02:03:58 < qyx> Spirit532: it does
2019-11-24T02:04:06 < qyx> your motor sees only the difference
2019-11-24T02:04:20 < Spirit532> it's not symmetrical
2019-11-24T02:04:25 < qyx> it doesnt matter
2019-11-24T02:04:29 < qyx> catphish is right
2019-11-24T02:04:30 < catphish> it doesn't need to be
2019-11-24T02:05:19 < Spirit532> so why do all the svpwm waveforms look symmetrical?
2019-11-24T02:05:24 < catphish> mine doesn't
2019-11-24T02:05:36 < Cracki> they look symmetrical because they represent negative current
2019-11-24T02:05:48 < Spirit532> which I can provide
2019-11-24T02:05:58 < catphish> Cracki: it's not even that, that's just the shape you get if you calulate it in other ways
2019-11-24T02:06:01 < Cracki> look close, you'll see two curves having near full negative current and one near full positive at some point
2019-11-24T02:06:11 < Cracki> yes
2019-11-24T02:06:45 < Cracki> I'm playing with calculating it from the hexagon diagram
2019-11-24T02:07:11 < Spirit532> have you succeeded in generating a symmetrical one?
2019-11-24T02:07:23 < catphish> it's worth noting that my version is overall more energy efficient, because it has less switching, but it also puts more stress on the + switches because it's not symmetric
2019-11-24T02:07:40 < Spirit532> yes, and I'd like it to have less stress
2019-11-24T02:07:48 < Cracki> working
2019-11-24T02:07:49 < Cracki> on it
2019-11-24T02:07:50 < Spirit532> it's switching all the time regardless
2019-11-24T02:08:05 < catphish> no it's not
2019-11-24T02:08:14 < Spirit532> yes it is, I'm not giving it full current
2019-11-24T02:08:27 -!- veegee [~veegee@ipagstaticip-3d3f7614-22f3-5b69-be13-7ab4b2c585d9.sdsl.bell.ca] has quit [Quit: veegee]
2019-11-24T02:08:38 < catphish> sure, but one of the phases is always off
2019-11-24T02:08:45 < catphish> (in my design)
2019-11-24T02:09:01 < Spirit532> I'd rather have higher holding torque
2019-11-24T02:09:12 < catphish> huh
2019-11-24T02:09:34 < qyx> Spirit532 is in Jan- mode
2019-11-24T02:09:43 < Spirit532> Jan- isn't here
2019-11-24T02:10:03 < qyx> thats the catch
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2019-11-24T02:10:16 < qyx> she wasn't listening and left
2019-11-24T02:10:46 < Spirit532> well, I don't like unbalanced switches and more stress
2019-11-24T02:10:50 < catphish> my version puts more current through the negative switches actually (not positive), i don't know is the imbalance would be noticeable
2019-11-24T02:11:25 < qyx> and it is not only catphishs version
2019-11-24T02:11:32 < qyx> I know that thing too from the past
2019-11-24T02:11:34 < catphish> you'd have to really be pushing the limits of the switches for that to matter though
2019-11-24T02:11:47 < Spirit532> it's power dissipation too
2019-11-24T02:12:25 < catphish> you're planning on holding the motor in a fixed position right?
2019-11-24T02:12:28 < Spirit532> yes
2019-11-24T02:12:33 < catphish> so this is totally irrelivent
2019-11-24T02:12:47 < Spirit532> but most of the time it'll be moving
2019-11-24T02:12:48 < catphish> you'll be putting 100% load on a single switch indefinitely
2019-11-24T02:12:50 < Spirit532> (probably)
2019-11-24T02:13:11 < catphish> sok
2019-11-24T02:14:07 < catphish> *so stop worrying about the tiny difference by waveform makes, and enjoy the fact that it avoids switching at all for large portions of the cycle
2019-11-24T02:14:17 < catphish> or don't, i'm not your mum
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2019-11-24T02:14:44 < catphish> but it works, and it's yours for free if you want it
2019-11-24T02:15:09 < Spirit532> #ifdef CATPHISH_ALGORITHM
2019-11-24T02:15:49 < catphish> there are actually 3 SVM waveforms
2019-11-24T02:16:02 < catphish> this is the best one: https://microchip.wdfiles.com/local--files/mct5001:introduction/zsmwaveform1.png
2019-11-24T02:16:12 < catphish> err no, not that one
2019-11-24T02:16:17 < catphish> that's the one you found
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2019-11-24T02:18:36 < catphish> no, i take it back, there's only two, mine, which has periods of no switching at all, and the other one, which keeps he signal closer to both rails
2019-11-24T02:18:43 < Spirit532> well, yours is very very not smooth at all
2019-11-24T02:18:49 < catphish> i don't think either is "better" per-se
2019-11-24T02:18:50 < Spirit532> it goes in starts and fits
2019-11-24T02:19:25 < Spirit532> at lower currents anyway
2019-11-24T02:19:25 < catphish> can you show me the waveform?
2019-11-24T02:19:39 < catphish> because it should be functionally identical to a sine wave
2019-11-24T02:20:16 < Spirit532> https://i.spirit.re/2635e.webm
2019-11-24T02:20:41 < catphish> what happened at 60300
2019-11-24T02:20:55 < catphish> i think you overflowed something
2019-11-24T02:21:06 < Spirit532> some glitch maybe
2019-11-24T02:21:12 < Cracki> encoder jumps from 4095 to 0
2019-11-24T02:21:16 < Cracki> you want it to keep going?
2019-11-24T02:21:29 < Spirit532> no, that's just the encoder
2019-11-24T02:21:31 < Spirit532> https://i.spirit.re/xEAV1.txt
2019-11-24T02:21:32 < Cracki> ah, that spike?
2019-11-24T02:21:34 < Spirit532> yes
2019-11-24T02:21:36 < Cracki> ooks like a glitch
2019-11-24T02:21:44 < Spirit532> just a random glitch
2019-11-24T02:21:51 < catphish> glitches are often integer overflows, but okay
2019-11-24T02:22:00 < Cracki> where does that glitch come from
2019-11-24T02:22:14 < Spirit532> probably on the display end
2019-11-24T02:22:18 < Spirit532> or uart transmission
2019-11-24T02:22:31 < catphish> oh yeah, its a uart problem
2019-11-24T02:22:41 < catphish> it went to the same value as the yellow line
2019-11-24T02:22:45 < catphish> anyway, the waveform looks right
2019-11-24T02:23:03 < catphish> what's ARR?
2019-11-24T02:23:32 < Spirit532> ARR?
2019-11-24T02:23:42 < catphish> HF_TIMX_ARR
2019-11-24T02:23:58 < Spirit532> tim1 reset register
2019-11-24T02:24:09 < catphish> i mean what is its value?
2019-11-24T02:24:23 < Spirit532> not sure, it's a macro thing
2019-11-24T02:24:28 < Spirit532> the motor *spins*
2019-11-24T02:24:30 < Spirit532> but you can see the humps
2019-11-24T02:24:37 < Spirit532> it's like it slows down and then keeps going
2019-11-24T02:25:26 < catphish> yeah the line looks a little wavey
2019-11-24T02:25:44 < Spirit532> coincides with the little dips in the svm waveform?
2019-11-24T02:26:17 < catphish> yep looks like it
2019-11-24T02:26:30 < Spirit532> so... does this mean the motor *actually* wants sine?
2019-11-24T02:26:41 < catphish> to clarify, this is sine
2019-11-24T02:26:53 < Spirit532> bipolar sine
2019-11-24T02:27:03 < catphish> as far as the motor is concerned, the voltage between every phase is a sine wave
2019-11-24T02:28:05 < catphish> without knowing the value of ARR, how are you choosing mul?
2019-11-24T02:28:16 < Spirit532> float mul = ((HF_TIMX_ARR/2)/100.0)*25.0;
2019-11-24T02:28:22 < Spirit532> just a percentage
2019-11-24T02:28:38 < catphish> ah okay
2019-11-24T02:31:02 < catphish> so, the max value of the svm wave is 1.732, so you're giving it 50% * 25% * 173% = 21% of the supply voltage
2019-11-24T02:31:28 < Spirit532> yeah that doesn't matter, regardless of how I vary it, the slowdowns happens
2019-11-24T02:31:35 < Spirit532> happen*
2019-11-24T02:31:46 < catphish> and this didn't happen with regular sine waves?
2019-11-24T02:31:50 < Spirit532> way less
2019-11-24T02:31:53 < Spirit532> almost none
2019-11-24T02:32:02 < catphish> well that's quite the mystery
2019-11-24T02:32:07 < Spirit532> so I'm guessing it's down to motor nonlinearity?
2019-11-24T02:32:31 < Spirit532> oh wait, hold on a moment, I think I know what this is
2019-11-24T02:32:32 < catphish> well, that should affect sine votage and svm voltage equally
2019-11-24T02:32:34 < Spirit532> deadtime?
2019-11-24T02:32:41 < catphish> deadtime should be the same
2019-11-24T02:32:45 < catphish> ie 5
2019-11-24T02:32:54 < Spirit532> the waveform lagging a little
2019-11-24T02:33:00 < Spirit532> before turning on the fets
2019-11-24T02:33:52 < catphish> you may want to check that your output isn't invested
2019-11-24T02:33:57 < catphish> *inverted
2019-11-24T02:34:07 < catphish> ie when PWM=0, the bottom switch is always no
2019-11-24T02:34:09 < catphish> *on
2019-11-24T02:34:27 < catphish> this is important because leaving the top switch always on will cause problems
2019-11-24T02:34:44 < catphish> as i mentioned earlier, but leaving the bottom switch on should be good
2019-11-24T02:35:13 < Spirit532> nope, not inverted
2019-11-24T02:36:31 < catphish> well, then i'm pretty confused why SVM would behave differently to sin
2019-11-24T02:36:56 < Spirit532> I'll add a small offset to it and see
2019-11-24T02:37:03 < catphish> worth a try
2019-11-24T02:37:12 < catphish> add 20
2019-11-24T02:38:56 < Spirit532> no, that's not it
2019-11-24T02:39:04 < Spirit532> it really needs to be symmetric I think
2019-11-24T02:39:13 < Spirit532> I feel the little "stops" when each phase snaps to 0
2019-11-24T02:39:18 < Spirit532> and unsnaps
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2019-11-24T02:42:08 < qyx> just curious, did you scope the waveform?
2019-11-24T02:42:13 < Spirit532> yes
2019-11-24T02:42:20 < Cracki> scope the pwm signals for those "stops"
2019-11-24T02:42:24 < Spirit532> that's what I did
2019-11-24T02:42:34 < Cracki> either they're 0 duty cycle or the fets can't switch on that briefly
2019-11-24T02:42:38 < catphish> i think he means with an actual oscilloscope
2019-11-24T02:42:50 < catphish> oh, you did?
2019-11-24T02:42:55 < Spirit532> yeah
2019-11-24T02:43:12 < catphish> well, it's true that they can't turn on briefly (because dead time)
2019-11-24T02:43:29 < catphish> but raising the waveform off the bottom should have eliminated that effect
2019-11-24T02:43:40 < catphish> making them all switch
2019-11-24T02:43:41 < Spirit532> it did not
2019-11-24T02:43:55 < catphish> well it did, which means your problem is something else
2019-11-24T02:44:20 < catphish> raising it off the zero mark should mean they were always switching
2019-11-24T02:44:34 < Spirit532> yep, but the stop-and-go keeps happening
2019-11-24T02:45:31 < catphish> interestingly, i never came up with a good way to generate those more traditional svm waveforms (never needed to)
2019-11-24T02:45:35 < catphish> but you can certainly try
2019-11-24T02:46:23 < Spirit532> Cracki seems to be playing with that right now
2019-11-24T02:46:30 < Cracki> I gave up
2019-11-24T02:46:37 < Cracki> current must be controlled
2019-11-24T02:46:40 < Spirit532> Cracki gave up
2019-11-24T02:46:44 < Cracki> just sending pwm isn't good enough
2019-11-24T02:46:53 < Spirit532> did you actually generate the signals?
2019-11-24T02:47:09 < Cracki> the actual signals are sines
2019-11-24T02:47:13 < catphish> but if voltage sine wave work, voltage svm should work the same :(
2019-11-24T02:47:16 < Cracki> with proper positive and negative components
2019-11-24T02:47:19 < Cracki> their sum must be 0
2019-11-24T02:47:24 < Cracki> because that's current
2019-11-24T02:47:48 < catphish> because it's just a conatant offset
2019-11-24T02:48:03 < Cracki> yes, constant offset merely moves everything up and down in voltage potential
2019-11-24T02:48:26 < Cracki> BUT "negative" sine wave means positive current flowing the other way
2019-11-24T02:48:36 < Spirit532> sine does not do this
2019-11-24T02:48:36 < Spirit532> odd
2019-11-24T02:48:45 < catphish> did you look on a scope at the outputs?
2019-11-24T02:48:58 < catphish> do they look like curves, or do you see the PWM spikes?
2019-11-24T02:49:42 < catphish> i've actually never done this, i guess you see the pwm pulses?
2019-11-24T02:49:46 < Cracki> at the shunt you should see something representing current, so maybe slight ripple from current rising and falling in a single pwm period
2019-11-24T02:49:56 < Cracki> the pwm pulses may appear as spikes of noise
2019-11-24T02:50:13 < catphish> oh yeah, the current at the shunt should be pretty constant
2019-11-24T02:50:13 < Spirit532> actually, sines DO do this
2019-11-24T02:50:19 < Spirit532> but at the same current, it's waaaaaaaaaaaay less
2019-11-24T02:50:24 < Spirit532> I can't feel it, but I can still see it on the plot
2019-11-24T02:50:34 < catphish> Spirit532: well thank god for that
2019-11-24T02:50:36 < Spirit532> with "SVM" I can feel it and even see the shaft slowing  slightly
2019-11-24T02:50:45 < Spirit532> so... why?
2019-11-24T02:50:52 < Spirit532> I'm guessing physical motor nonlinearity?
2019-11-24T02:51:00 < catphish> most likely your motor is designed for trapazoids
2019-11-24T02:51:13 < catphish> good news, they're easy to generate :)
2019-11-24T02:51:20 < Spirit532> do tell :)
2019-11-24T02:51:24 < Spirit532> I'll overcomplicate it if I try
2019-11-24T02:52:16 < catphish> unfortunately i don't know the exact shape of the trapazoid
2019-11-24T02:52:34 < Spirit532> I believe it looks like a triangle
2019-11-24T02:52:46 < Spirit532> sort of... a line, but tilted!
2019-11-24T02:52:46 < Spirit532> :P
2019-11-24T02:52:52 < catphish> https://www.motioncontroltips.com/wp-content/uploads/2016/04/Trapezoidal-Back-EMF.jpg
2019-11-24T02:52:54 < catphish> like this
2019-11-24T02:52:59 < Spirit532> that's bemf
2019-11-24T02:53:15 < catphish> yep
2019-11-24T02:53:21 < Spirit532> oh god no I just pasted an image into hexchat
2019-11-24T02:53:28 < Spirit532> let's hope I don't suddenly send 3000 lines of text
2019-11-24T02:53:28 < catphish> and why would that be a different shape to forward EMF :)
2019-11-24T02:53:31 < Spirit532> https://www.researchgate.net/profile/Mohammed_Moanes_Ali/post/what_is_the_difference_between_stator_windings_of_BLDC_and_PMSM_motors/attachment/5a1ed38cb53d2f6747c6f1fc/AS%3A566056005058560%401511969676421/download/Microchip+Figure+1-101309.jpg
2019-11-24T02:53:31 < catphish> lol it didn't
2019-11-24T02:53:42 < Spirit532> looks like that's what you're supposed to do
2019-11-24T02:53:49 < Spirit532> smooth triangles?
2019-11-24T02:53:59 < catphish> hmm
2019-11-24T02:54:04 < Spirit532> and the top is 1/6th
2019-11-24T02:54:06 < catphish> i'm actually not sure
2019-11-24T02:54:08 < catphish> try all three
2019-11-24T02:54:15 < Spirit532> I can't into the math
2019-11-24T02:54:37 < Spirit532> well I guess I'll take your algo and stuff it under a define, in case people want to use it later
2019-11-24T02:54:38 < catphish> the triangle (forget smoothing it), and the trapazoid
2019-11-24T02:55:00 < catphish> triangle is easy to generate, i hope you can do that maths
2019-11-24T02:55:15 < Spirit532> yes
2019-11-24T02:55:22 < catphish> and the trapazoid is just dc, and a triangle mixed together with some if statements :)
2019-11-24T02:55:48 < catphish> this diagram shows where you might make the switch from dc to triangle: https://www.motioncontroltips.com/wp-content/uploads/2016/04/Trapezoidal-Back-EMF.jpg
2019-11-24T02:55:59 < Spirit532> looks like there's a fun way to generate triangles
2019-11-24T02:56:14 < catphish> ps. i seriously suggest the trapazoids first
2019-11-24T02:56:18 < Cracki> oh hell you guys are still trying to estimate bemf and whatnot because there's not enough current sensing?
2019-11-24T02:56:23 < Spirit532> acos(sin(angle))/(pi/2)
2019-11-24T02:56:30 < catphish> i never heard of anyone running a bldc on a triangle wave
2019-11-24T02:56:38 < catphish> Cracki: no
2019-11-24T02:56:41 < Cracki> triangle is nice and simple
2019-11-24T02:56:52 < catphish> we're just trying to guess what waveform the motor wants
2019-11-24T02:57:35 < Spirit532> run this through wolfram
2019-11-24T02:57:36 < Spirit532> acos(sin(x))/(pi/2) - 1
2019-11-24T02:57:40 < Spirit532> that's a nifty trick
2019-11-24T02:57:49 < catphish> it is... but...
2019-11-24T02:57:55 < Spirit532> computation
2019-11-24T02:58:08 < catphish> please dont make your device do that to generate a straight line
2019-11-24T02:58:19 < Spirit532> hehe
2019-11-24T02:58:29 < Spirit532> it'll weep and cry under my weight
2019-11-24T02:58:40 < catphish>  :)
2019-11-24T02:59:39 < qyx> just curious, did you try to use your scope to measure the bemf when manually rotating the motor?
2019-11-24T02:59:45 < Spirit532> nope
2019-11-24T02:59:49 < catphish> Cracki is of course correct that current sensing would be better, but... you still need to guess what current shape the motor wants
2019-11-24T03:00:22 < Spirit532> hey, what *is* an efficient way to generate a triangle?
2019-11-24T03:00:28 < catphish> and i still suspect it's not really necessary, though it might allow you more torque later
2019-11-24T03:00:31 < Spirit532> aside from, y'know, manually doing it inside a loop
2019-11-24T03:00:32 < qyx> shouldnt be the shape ~similar to the generated bemf?
2019-11-24T03:00:56 < Cracki> people who do that to steppers talk about "microstepping tables". they attach vibration sensing to the motor, and then adjust that curve from coarse to fine
2019-11-24T03:01:39 < Cracki> either vibration or a good angular encoder
2019-11-24T03:01:44 < catphish> y = abs((x++ % 6) - 3);
2019-11-24T03:01:49 < catphish> This gives a triangular wave of period 6, oscillating between 3 and 0.
2019-11-24T03:01:59 < catphish> i stole that from https://stackoverflow.com/questions/1073606/is-there-a-one-line-function-that-generates-a-triangle-wave
2019-11-24T03:02:31 < catphish> y = abs( amplitude - x % (2*amplitude) )
2019-11-24T03:02:31 < Cracki> yikes
2019-11-24T03:02:43 < catphish> lots of variations on that, nice and simple :)
2019-11-24T03:03:24 < Spirit532> except what is x
2019-11-24T03:03:37 < Spirit532> and period
2019-11-24T03:03:46 < Spirit532> because we're in a 360 degree loop
2019-11-24T03:03:47 < catphish> x is the angle
2019-11-24T03:03:54 < Spirit532> is it?
2019-11-24T03:04:21 < catphish> go with this one...
2019-11-24T03:04:50 < catphish> value = abs((angle % 360) - 180);
2019-11-24T03:06:22 < catphish> https://www.wolframalpha.com/input/?i=y+%3D+abs%28%28x+mod+360%29+-+180%29%3B
2019-11-24T03:08:09 < Spirit532> closer to (abs((x mod 360) - 180) - 90)/ 90
2019-11-24T03:08:13 < Spirit532> but yeah
2019-11-24T03:09:19 < Cracki> (/ (- (abs (- (mod x 360) 180)) 90) 90)
2019-11-24T03:09:57 < Cracki> parentheses touching means lisp
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2019-11-24T03:16:34 < qyx> a single pin left on my LQFP48
2019-11-24T03:16:40 < Spirit532> it is most definitely not a triangle catphish 
2019-11-24T03:16:56 < catphish> lol
2019-11-24T03:16:56 < Spirit532> even worse "slowdowns"
2019-11-24T03:17:06 < Spirit532> so what's left... trapezoid?
2019-11-24T03:17:08 < catphish> yes
2019-11-24T03:17:14 < Spirit532> how do I even generate the trapezoid
2019-11-24T03:17:31 < catphish> work it out :) use some if statements
2019-11-24T03:17:39 < Spirit532> that is such a crutch
2019-11-24T03:17:51 < qyx> a simple LUT maybe?
2019-11-24T03:17:52 < Spirit532> I suppooooooose I could cut off the top and bottom
2019-11-24T03:18:21 < catphish> you could clip the triangle, yes
2019-11-24T03:18:41 < catphish> but you have to make sure it happens in roughly the right place
2019-11-24T03:19:03 < qyx> https://e2e.ti.com/cfs-file/__key/communityserver-blogs-components-weblogfiles/00-00-00-07-88/7711.rajne-2.png
2019-11-24T03:19:10 < catphish> https://www.electric-skateboard.builders/uploads/db1493/original/2X/2/2d20428795586315c7f2b434013f60388270e3b7.png
2019-11-24T03:19:11 < qyx> simply divide it to segments
2019-11-24T03:19:17 < catphish> these are the points you're aiming for
2019-11-24T03:19:24 < qyx> there are only 6
2019-11-24T03:19:40 < Spirit532> now the question is
2019-11-24T03:20:00 < Spirit532> do I want to do that, or do I want to accept that it will never be perfect, and to add a calibration routine?
2019-11-24T03:20:38 < Spirit532> electric degrees -> [position control -> [quadrant degrees +- correction] ]
2019-11-24T03:20:41 < Spirit532> sort of like that
2019-11-24T03:20:44 < catphish> i have no idea how you calibrate, so i'll have to leave that question to you
2019-11-24T03:20:53 < Spirit532> I have no idea either
2019-11-24T03:20:59 < catphish> actually...
2019-11-24T03:21:11 < catphish> a trapazoid is useless to you for precision control
2019-11-24T03:21:16 < Spirit532> there's four quadrants, each of them has 360 degrees
2019-11-24T03:21:18 < catphish> it's only useful for a spinning motor
2019-11-24T03:21:39 < catphish> oh, no, i take it back
2019-11-24T03:21:42 < Spirit532> now I /could/ just use a single quadrant and do selection
2019-11-24T03:21:48 < catphish> one phase is always a slope
2019-11-24T03:21:51 < catphish> so you're good
2019-11-24T03:21:55 < catphish> i'd definitely recommend trying it
2019-11-24T03:22:04 < Spirit532> there's no elegant way to generate it
2019-11-24T03:22:06 < catphish> let me give you a spoiler...
2019-11-24T03:22:16 < qyx> ok TIL 6-step != trapezoid
2019-11-24T03:22:48 < catphish> trapazoid is an actual shape :) like a rhombus :)
2019-11-24T03:23:44 < catphish> Spirit532: start with a 6-option case statement, work out what quadrant you're in, then reaise this is impossible with a 4096 step encoder :(
2019-11-24T03:23:57 < catphish> then cry a bit
2019-11-24T03:24:16 < Spirit532> I mean it's just 4
2019-11-24T03:24:19 < catphish> but you can test it with your dumb 360 degree test tool
2019-11-24T03:24:21 < Spirit532> subtract 1 from each quadrant
2019-11-24T03:24:27 < Spirit532> you get 4092, which divides nicely by 6
2019-11-24T03:25:01 < catphish> so yeah, case statement, 6 options, in each one, set all 3 wave values
2019-11-24T03:25:08 < catphish> 2 will be constants :)
2019-11-24T03:25:15 < catphish> the third is easily calculated
2019-11-24T03:25:30 < Spirit532> constants?
2019-11-24T03:25:54 < catphish> yes, in the first sixth, the first phase is +1, the second phase is -1
2019-11-24T03:26:00 < catphish> you only have to calculate the third one :)
2019-11-24T03:26:28 < catphish> which is just a variation on the triangle code
2019-11-24T03:26:30 < Spirit532> well, it's more like.. actually, let's see if I can implement a bit of dumb closed loop control
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2019-11-24T03:26:46 < Spirit532> but... that's not going to work, first I have to calibrate where the relative zero is
2019-11-24T03:26:54 < Spirit532> since the chip and magnet are aligned randomly
2019-11-24T03:27:32 < catphish> i thought you were jus testing with for(n=0;n<360;n++) and ignoring the magnet
2019-11-24T03:27:58 < catphish> but yes, sure, if you're using the encoder, you'll need to align it
2019-11-24T03:29:33 < Spirit532> might as well do that now
2019-11-24T03:29:44 < Spirit532> slowly ease into one phase
2019-11-24T03:29:57 < Spirit532> take a zero reading
2019-11-24T03:30:10 < jadew> nsfw: https://www.thingiverse.com/thing:3869554
2019-11-24T03:30:13 < Spirit532> I don't think I'll be trying trapezoid, since sine is the closest I've gotten so far
2019-11-24T03:32:58 < catphish> Spirit532: i feel i should point out that if you compare them, you'll find the trapazoid is just my svm with the lump at the top missing
2019-11-24T03:33:22 < catphish> Spirit532: and you said that lump was where you lost torque
2019-11-24T03:33:39 < catphish> nice cup
2019-11-24T03:33:53 < Spirit532> maybe there's a way to re-add the lump to your svm thing?
2019-11-24T03:34:06 < Cracki> cup for virgin blood
2019-11-24T03:35:21 < Cracki> how the hell is a 3d print supposed to leak alcohol but not water
2019-11-24T03:35:25 < catphish> compare this https://i.spirit.re/T9WxG.png with this https://www.electric-skateboard.builders/uploads/db1493/original/2X/2/2d20428795586315c7f2b434013f60388270e3b7.png
2019-11-24T03:35:51 < Spirit532> similar
2019-11-24T03:35:53 < catphish> you'll see they're identical aside from the bump, and a sligt curve
2019-11-24T03:36:27 < catphish> but, generated totally differently
2019-11-24T03:36:43 < catphish> either do the maths, or get some sleep :)
2019-11-24T03:41:46 < catphish> which is also what i'm doing
2019-11-24T03:42:00 < Spirit532> heh
2019-11-24T03:42:03 < Spirit532> I'll keep working on it
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2019-11-24T05:08:05 < specing> Any recommendations for a screen module from china? At least 2 inch diagonal, bonus if it comes with microSD slot, bonus if it has touch. I'm going to write my own interface to it, so it should be easy to work with (no complex libraries necessary).
2019-11-24T05:08:28 < specing> Perhaps something like this https://www.aliexpress.com/item/33020948316.html
2019-11-24T05:08:36 < specing> "2.4" 2.4 Inch 240x320 SPI TFT LCD Touch Panel Serial Port Module ILI9341 3.3V 5V PCB Adapter LCD Display for Arduino Micro SD"
2019-11-24T05:08:55 < specing> would be better if it was IPS instead of TFT...
2019-11-24T05:16:36 < Cracki> I saw some 3.5" 480x320 (resistive) touch modules for raspi... not sure that's your thing
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2019-11-24T05:25:20 < zyp> qyx, I made a draft of my ideas for the backplane stuff: https://paste.jvnv.net/view/eLkVW
2019-11-24T05:27:28 < zyp> comments are welcome :)
2019-11-24T05:38:02 < fenugrec> zyp, are you naming it YAB, yet another backplane / bus ?
2019-11-24T05:38:31 < fenugrec> hehe, https://xkcd.com/927/
2019-11-24T05:42:42 < aandrew> yep
2019-11-24T05:42:57 < aandrew> there are numerous gateways already and I bet they are all poor in one aspect
2019-11-24T05:43:17 < aandrew> so lets' create another, rpi one at that, and make it another attempted standard :-)
2019-11-24T05:45:34 < aandrew> not to mention you're seriously thinking of I2C and USB in an environment like that... <shudders>
2019-11-24T05:53:39 < Cracki> i2c over blockchain, rake in the venturebucks
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2019-11-24T09:07:33 < qyx> aandrew: i2c over backplanes is quite standard
2019-11-24T09:07:58 < qyx> there is a ton of i2c level translators and even hotplug controller
2019-11-24T09:07:59 < qyx> s
2019-11-24T09:11:57 < qyx> zyp: we are about in sync, except our preferred comms is usb, I use can/can-fd for high-speed, smbus for low speed
2019-11-24T09:12:10 < qyx> and the form factor would be probably different
2019-11-24T09:12:46 < qyx> s/our/your
2019-11-24T09:21:25 < qyx> I somewhat finished component placement and routing of a sample charger board https://i.imgur.com/iduSvOW.png
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2019-11-24T10:40:54 < dongs> welp, i fixed my libusb problem
2019-11-24T10:41:13 < dongs> the bulk stuff stops running if I don't run a control transfer
2019-11-24T10:41:39 < dongs> finally noticed i had my libusb_events() thread which was running in a while(do_events) { } but do_events never got set to true before thread started
2019-11-24T10:41:52 < dongs> so it exited immediately and libusb_do_events() thing never gets run
2019-11-24T10:42:04 < dongs> so it needed a call to some control/etc transfer to kick things
2019-11-24T10:44:11 < dongs> qyx that doesnt seem very simple at all
2019-11-24T10:44:13 < dongs> what the fuck is it?
2019-11-24T10:53:24 < dongs> hmm but now i get crash on libusb_close()
2019-11-24T10:53:34 < dongs> (well, i did before too, whcih is why i started investigating multi-trehad shit
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2019-11-24T11:06:32 < dongs> hmm
2019-11-24T11:06:36 < dongs> stepped into libusb_close()
2019-11-24T11:06:43 < dongs> its walking some internal list with bullshit macros
2019-11-24T11:06:47 < dongs> list of transfers
2019-11-24T11:06:56 < dongs> does one pass then crashes
2019-11-24T11:07:04 < dongs> of course I can't tell what the fuck its walking because LOL MACROS
2019-11-24T11:07:07 < dongs> fucking lunix faggots god damn
2019-11-24T11:07:43 < dongs> http://bcas.tv/paste/results/GHTHa957.html
2019-11-24T11:07:51 < dongs> WHO TEH FUCK thought this was a good idea????
2019-11-24T11:08:15 < dongs> "hey let's write shit unredable code and put it in macros, so we can be cool lunix fags"
2019-11-24T11:14:17 < vampi-the-frog> cool story bro
2019-11-24T11:16:57 < dongs> ok maybe i need to call libusb_cancel_transfer but that makes a bunch of spam in console
2019-11-24T11:20:39 < vampi-the-frog> libusb is canceled
2019-11-24T11:23:49 < dongs> libusb: error [do_close] Device handle closed while transfer was still being processed, but the device is still connected as far as we know
2019-11-24T11:23:52 < dongs> libusb: error [do_close] A cancellation hasn't even been scheduled on the transfer for which the device is closing
2019-11-24T11:23:55 < dongs> blah so much dumb spam
2019-11-24T11:31:28 < PaulFertser> dongs: btw, do you seriously think they should have just made multiple copies of the same code?
2019-11-24T11:31:41 < dongs> PaulFertser: which code
2019-11-24T11:31:55 < PaulFertser> dongs: the code that's currently inside macro.
2019-11-24T11:31:58 < dongs> the fucking for loop definition?
2019-11-24T11:32:07 < dongs> thats unsteppable and undebuggable as result?
2019-11-24T11:32:08 < dongs> idk
2019-11-24T11:32:15 < dongs> they sshould have come up with some less retarded way of doing it
2019-11-24T11:32:34 < PaulFertser> Using C++ ? ;)
2019-11-24T11:32:54 < dongs> no
2019-11-24T11:33:49 < PaulFertser> Are you normally able to comfortably step through code that's using the comma operator? It seems the macro itself is not an issue here.
2019-11-24T11:34:41 < dongs> nah this is macros inside macros inside macros
2019-11-24T11:34:44 < dongs> list_entry shit is also a macro
2019-11-24T11:34:51 < dongs> so its all jsut a huge niggerific mess
2019-11-24T11:35:45 < PaulFertser> C is inherently limited
2019-11-24T11:35:57 < dongs> anyway i fixed it for now by calling cancel_transfer but that results in a bunc hof spam on shutdown about half-aborted transfer
2019-11-24T11:36:00 < dongs> but better than a crash
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2019-11-24T11:51:49 < zyp> aandrew, if what I want already exists, feel free to point me towards it so I don't have to reinvent the wheel
2019-11-24T11:58:16 < zyp> also I'm not really aiming to have this become «the standard», just something that is flexible enough that it's usable for what I want to do with it
2019-11-24T11:58:41 < zyp> I'm making it for me, but of course it'd be nice if other people saw use in it too
2019-11-24T11:59:26 < vampi-the-frog> what about PC104
2019-11-24T11:59:29 < zyp> also I don't see why I2C and USB would be a problem
2019-11-24T12:00:07 < zyp> PCIe itself includes SMBus which is pretty much just I2C with a different name
2019-11-24T12:01:16 < zyp> and USB is designed to be reliable over 5m of cable in all sorts of environments, surely it'd be robust enough in a board to board environment
2019-11-24T12:02:11 < srk> :D
2019-11-24T12:02:14 < zyp> vampi-the-frog, as far as I've seen, it's large, complex and expensive
2019-11-24T12:03:01 < srk> USB and reliable in one sentence, heh
2019-11-24T12:03:52 < zyp> yeah?
2019-11-24T12:04:44 < vampi-the-frog> ur large, complex and expensive
2019-11-24T12:04:52 < zyp> thanks
2019-11-24T12:07:22 < srk> btw you can use CAN without transcievers
2019-11-24T12:07:32 < zyp> I know, I've done it
2019-11-24T12:07:34 < vampi-the-frog> I think firewire is designed to work over even longer cables
2019-11-24T12:08:51 < zyp> vampi-the-frog, maybe, but I haven't seen any microcontrollers with firewire
2019-11-24T12:09:11 < vampi-the-frog> you can get an external PHY
2019-11-24T12:10:06 < vampi-the-frog> https://www.ti.com/product/TSB41AB1
2019-11-24T12:11:39 < vampi-the-frog> this is from a firewire audio interface
2019-11-24T12:11:53 < zyp> I haven't seen any microcontrollers with a firewire MAC either though
2019-11-24T12:12:07 < zyp> or LLC, as that datasheet calls it
2019-11-24T12:13:02 < zyp> also I'm not sure why you think I'm interested in something that supports longer distances than USB when we're talking about a board to board setup
2019-11-24T12:13:38 < vampi-the-frog> I just thought it was cool
2019-11-24T12:14:53 < vampi-the-frog> This is the micro https://utcdn.utsource.info/pdfjs/index.html?18261_PHILIPS_PDI1394L21BE
2019-11-24T12:15:38 < vampi-the-frog> there's also a FPGA and a ROM on that board
2019-11-24T12:15:49 < vampi-the-frog> and a smaller ROM for the FPGA
2019-11-24T12:20:46 < zyp> so anyway, USB is so overspecced for short range comms that there exists a short range variant (HSIC) that trades away some of the robustness for a simpler PHY layer that's cheaper to implement and consumes lower power
2019-11-24T12:22:05 < con3> what debugger do you guys use? or any good recommendations?
2019-11-24T12:22:06 < zyp> HSIC is USB HS only though, which is faster and thus more expensive than what most of my plug-in cards needs
2019-11-24T12:22:13 < zyp> con3, blackmagic probe
2019-11-24T12:22:48 < con3> zyp: thank you <3
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2019-11-24T12:49:09 < qyx> zyp: at work, usb+windows never worked in an industrial setup
2019-11-24T12:49:18 < qyx> idk, probably ground loops and stuff
2019-11-24T12:49:38 < qyx> devices have been disconnecting all the time, there were errors during enumeration, etc.
2019-11-24T12:53:18 < zyp> on a backplane or what?
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2019-11-24T13:02:50 < vampi-the-frog> damn ground loops
2019-11-24T13:03:42 < vampi-the-frog> can someone enlighten me on the PLL stuff in STM32F4?
2019-11-24T13:03:52 < PaulFertser> qyx: I think PNP machines have USB cameras and windows.
2019-11-24T13:03:55 < vampi-the-frog> are they real PLLs or is it some digital nonsense?
2019-11-24T13:26:29 < dongs> lol failwire
2019-11-24T13:26:35 < dongs> pls dont bring that shit back from the dead
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2019-11-24T13:32:24 < zyp> dongs, do you still run 2L proto panels regularly with extra room to spare?
2019-11-24T13:34:42 < zyp> and do you still have that pile of qfp64 L0?
2019-11-24T13:35:30 < zyp> I've got a couple of designs in mind that could make use of them
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2019-11-24T13:57:44 < qyx> zyp: no, regular usb2 rated cables outside or inside enclosures in a factory
2019-11-24T13:58:22 < zyp> yeah, that sounds like a recipe for ground loops and shit
2019-11-24T13:58:47 < qyx> or usb2 in a harting modular connectors with diff inserts rated for gbe
2019-11-24T13:59:46 < zyp> doesn't really translate to having everything plugged into a backplane with a common solid ground
2019-11-24T14:02:49 < zyp> I'd rather do ethernet for stuff like that
2019-11-24T14:03:22 < qyx> yeah but not all stuff is ethernet capable
2019-11-24T14:03:36 < qyx> color sensors weren't for example
2019-11-24T14:04:14 < zyp> then something else with galvanic isolation :)
2019-11-24T14:04:15 < qyx> it should nnot be a problem on a backplane though
2019-11-24T14:04:26 < qyx> also
2019-11-24T14:04:42 < qyx> you sait theree would be an ID signal to detect usb role
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2019-11-24T14:05:00 < qyx> how do you plan to hub the usb on the backplane?
2019-11-24T14:05:44 < zyp> plain hub chip, upstream port to one slot, downstream ports to the rest
2019-11-24T14:06:08 < zyp> ID-pin equivalent to what mini- and micro-plugs have to signal whether it's an A-role plug or B-role plug
2019-11-24T14:07:07 < zyp> OTG-capable board would work like a board with an AB socket, switching modes depending on what the ID signal says
2019-11-24T14:07:08 < qyx> but what for
2019-11-24T14:07:18 < qyx> if the roles are hw determined?
2019-11-24T14:07:38 < qyx> by the hub chips
2019-11-24T14:07:46 < qyx> or are there dual role hubs?
2019-11-24T14:07:53 < zyp> no, that's not the point
2019-11-24T14:09:20 < zyp> in classical OTG, devices have AB-sockets, plugs come in A- or B-varieties, ID pin is grounded or floating in the plug to tell the device which kind of plug is inserted
2019-11-24T14:09:38 < zyp> here the card-edge would be a socket, the pcie-connector would be a plug
2019-11-24T14:09:57 < zyp> so each slot would have ID grounded or floating on the backplane, depending on whether it's connected to an upstream- or downstream-port
2019-11-24T14:10:17 < zyp> plug-in card would then switch roles depending on which slot it's inserted into
2019-11-24T14:10:44 < qyx> so the card would have to be host-capable for the case it is inserted in a host port?
2019-11-24T14:10:53 < qyx> I mean every card would need to be
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2019-11-24T14:14:26 < zyp> we don't have keyed connectors, so it's the user's responsibility to not plug cards into unsupported slots
2019-11-24T14:16:02 < zyp> shouldn't be any risk of damage anyway, idle state of the data lines is pull up for a host and pull down for a device, so in practice they'll just sit there and do nothing
2019-11-24T14:16:48 < zyp> but yeah, there will be A slots and B slots, and A, B and AB cards
2019-11-24T14:18:28 < qyx> sounds reasonable enough
2019-11-24T14:19:47 < qyx> did you think about board sizes?
2019-11-24T14:21:02 < zyp> I've been making some considerations, but not anything conclusive
2019-11-24T14:22:43 < zyp> for flexibility, I would prefer not specifying too much
2019-11-24T14:23:33 < zyp> I mentioned it before, but I'd like to have external connectors on the side, like real pcie cards, not on the opposite end
2019-11-24T14:23:44 < qyx> yeah I remember
2019-11-24T14:24:04 < zyp> that way boards could be adjusted both in height and length as needed to fit the specific board
2019-11-24T14:25:12 < qyx> I wanted to fit them into a common enclosure
2019-11-24T14:25:19 < qyx> and also be hot pluggabnle
2019-11-24T14:25:20 < zyp> I figure if I start defining height and length I'll end up with something that's too small for some plug-in boards, while wastefully large for others
2019-11-24T14:25:56 < qyx> in that case the enclosure would need to be always big enough
2019-11-24T14:26:08 < qyx> to fit even the biggest cards
2019-11-24T14:26:18 < qyx> and pcb space is cheap
2019-11-24T14:26:28 < qyx> china-pcb space :)
2019-11-24T14:26:31 < zyp> I figure enclosures can be 3d-printed
2019-11-24T14:26:40 < qyx> meh
2019-11-24T14:26:55 < zyp> pcb space is cheap, but the space you put the enclosure in might not be
2019-11-24T14:28:49 < zyp> for instance, it'd be nice to be able to put this into a din-rail enclosure
2019-11-24T14:29:46 < zyp> the kind where the middle part pokes out through a cover
2019-11-24T14:30:40 < zyp> but I'm not sure it's physically possible to fit a pi cm standing up in one anyway :)
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2019-11-24T14:37:49 < dongs> zyp, yes on both
2019-11-24T14:38:07 < zyp> cool
2019-11-24T14:38:40 < zyp> I'll let you know when I've designed some shit then
2019-11-24T14:38:57 < dongs> are you gonna innovate some shti with CM on it?
2019-11-24T14:39:07 < zyp> possibly, yes
2019-11-24T14:40:27 < zyp> I'm innovating this shit: https://paste.jvnv.net/view/eLkVW
2019-11-24T14:40:53 < dongs> is that the IoT enclosure thing
2019-11-24T14:40:55 < dongs> ive read it
2019-11-24T14:41:31 < zyp> but I mean, doesn't have to be pi cm, could be any other shit that got a usb host port
2019-11-24T14:41:45 < zyp> i.e. pretty much any modern SoM
2019-11-24T14:44:14 < zyp> the advantage with rpi shit is that it's so ubiquitous I don't have to hack up my own lunix shit to run on it
2019-11-24T14:45:41 < zyp> I figure most existing images for anything would also run on the CM
2019-11-24T14:48:34 < kakipr0> everybody is pumping modular nowdays
2019-11-24T14:48:51 < dongs> tehy do
2019-11-24T14:48:57 < dongs> dongbian lite or wahtever shti just works
2019-11-24T14:49:15 < dongs> you need some windows broadcom warez to burn internal emmc if you got the emmc version or else stick a sd socket outside of it and boot from that
2019-11-24T14:49:21 < dongs> if using CM lite or whatever
2019-11-24T14:49:48 < dongs> i did some LoRA trash with CM :( haha feels so dirty cuz it was mostly putting together retardded chink breakouts
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2019-11-24T14:57:11 < Steffanx> dongs: Hah, how did it feel.. being a maker
2019-11-24T14:57:16 < dongs> ikr?
2019-11-24T14:57:19 < dongs> at least i was getting paid so shrug
2019-11-24T14:57:29 < dongs> this is like my 3rd make:R CM proj
2019-11-24T14:57:34 < dongs> people keep using it in some dumb shit
2019-11-24T15:13:19 < zyp> I figure sd socket is easier
2019-11-24T15:13:27 < mawk> what's cm
2019-11-24T15:13:39 < dongs> then you have to get the -lite shit which is cheaper anyway
2019-11-24T15:13:45 < zyp> yeah
2019-11-24T15:13:52 < dongs> old models didnt have emmc-less edition anyway
2019-11-24T15:13:55 < dongs> new ones do
2019-11-24T15:14:37 < zyp> old models were trash anyway
2019-11-24T15:14:41 < mawk> compute module
2019-11-24T15:14:57 < Steffanx> Da.
2019-11-24T15:15:15 < Steffanx> So did you figure out where in dutchland you've been all this time, mawk?
2019-11-24T15:15:23 < mawk> in Diemen
2019-11-24T15:15:25 < mawk> I think
2019-11-24T15:15:35 < mawk> but the lady wouldn't tell me "it's the computer, it's read-only, sorry, can't do"
2019-11-24T15:15:48 < Steffanx> > "I dont know how it fix it"
2019-11-24T15:16:07 < mawk> yeah
2019-11-24T15:16:14 < Steffanx> is it an issue anyway
2019-11-24T15:16:16 < zyp> rpi 1 was some random shitty parts thrown together, newer ones are actually starting to get decent
2019-11-24T15:16:41 < mawk> well I'm lucky they say it's 2014 and not something more recent because otherwise I couldn't apply to the 30% tax cut for foreigners Steffanx 
2019-11-24T15:16:53 < zyp> rpi 4 finally got proper ethernet in the SoC, rather than the usb-ethernet-thing
2019-11-24T15:16:58 < mawk> they sell rpis in computer shops here, that's surprising
2019-11-24T15:17:06 < mawk> and arduino stuff
2019-11-24T15:17:22 < dongs> yeah i found rpi1 in a trash box
2019-11-24T15:17:25 < dongs> the other day
2019-11-24T15:17:27 < dongs> holy fucking shit.
2019-11-24T15:17:30 < dongs> that ytellow RCA
2019-11-24T15:17:34 < dongs> adn USB ports sticking off to the side
2019-11-24T15:17:40 < dongs> and absolutely disgusting routing
2019-11-24T15:17:46 < dongs> not that routing on newer shit is any better but god damn
2019-11-24T15:17:47 < mawk> Steffanx: if you earn more than 37k/year, that you have a highly qualified job, and that you lived 150km away from the dutch border for more than 4 years, then you apply for 30% tax cut during 5 years I think
2019-11-24T15:17:57 < mawk> free money
2019-11-24T15:18:01 < dongs> and a fucking LM1117 for 3.3V supply
2019-11-24T15:18:09 < mawk> lol the yellow rca
2019-11-24T15:18:11 < Steffanx> really, damn. time to move out dutchland for a while.
2019-11-24T15:19:19 < Steffanx> zyp i'll redirect the message.  once in a while i have the honour to work with someone who apparently worked on the rpi
2019-11-24T15:19:21 < BrainDamage> newer models still have the composite video, it's ... in the headphone jack
2019-11-24T15:19:29 < dongs> yea sure
2019-11-24T15:19:38 < mawk> lol BrainDamage 
2019-11-24T15:19:51 < zyp> dongs, what would be a decent cheap usb hub chip? preferably multi-TT
2019-11-24T15:20:07 < dongs> idk i only use bottom of the barrel GL850 shit
2019-11-24T15:20:10 < dongs> that comes int tssop20
2019-11-24T15:20:11 < mawk> I have spdif audio output in my audio input jack on my computer
2019-11-24T15:20:16 < dongs> those things re like 20c in china
2019-11-24T15:20:23 < dongs> i think englishman tried using some Cypress shit
2019-11-24T15:20:49 < zyp> hmm, four port, single TT
2019-11-24T15:20:54 < dongs> right
2019-11-24T15:21:09 < dongs> you can use smsc shit i geuss
2019-11-24T15:21:11 < dongs> USB2514B or whatever
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2019-11-24T15:21:36 < dongs> its also in chian but liek $2
2019-11-24T15:21:39 < zyp> could always just throw something together with gl850 and make something more decent later
2019-11-24T15:21:40 < BrainDamage> zyp: mmm, one thing I have to say about your backplane is that is kind of awful for deterministic timing so any project requiring it will likely end up clogging the i2c bus
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2019-11-24T15:22:07 < zyp> BrainDamage, why not use SOF for deterministic timing?
2019-11-24T15:22:32 < BrainDamage> that gives you timing compensation, not deterministic timing
2019-11-24T15:22:49 < BrainDamage> for deterministic timing you need isochron mode, which is a giant pain
2019-11-24T15:22:57 <@englishman> trashed the cypress chip due to errata
2019-11-24T15:23:03 <@englishman> Genesys >>>> cypress
2019-11-24T15:23:05 < zyp> BrainDamage, you mean low latency?
2019-11-24T15:23:14 < BrainDamage> no, deterministic latency
2019-11-24T15:23:23 < BrainDamage> so you know the latency is constant
2019-11-24T15:23:50 < dongs> actually non-industrial version of 2514 is $1 in china
2019-11-24T15:23:51 < dongs> so not too bad
2019-11-24T15:23:53 < dongs> and that one's MTT
2019-11-24T15:24:24 < zyp> what about 2517?
2019-11-24T15:24:28 < dongs> is that 7 port?
2019-11-24T15:24:35 < zyp> yeah
2019-11-24T15:24:42 < dongs> nope
2019-11-24T15:24:44 < dongs> only 2/4 are available
2019-11-24T15:24:52 < dongs> well, 2,3,4
2019-11-24T15:25:15 < zyp> aww
2019-11-24T15:29:21 < zyp> what's a good reg that can do 5-24V input, 5V output?
2019-11-24T15:29:29 < zyp> s/good/cheap/
2019-11-24T15:31:14 < dongs> that RT you used was not bad if you want higher MHZ ive been using MP4460, up to 36Vin
2019-11-24T15:31:24 < dongs> RT that you used on the LL-del board
2019-11-24T15:31:48 < dongs> i think rt goes to 3A, MP is 2A
2019-11-24T15:32:40 <@englishman> with zero dropout?
2019-11-24T15:32:59 < zyp> yeah
2019-11-24T15:33:47 < zyp> or boost even, to compensate for losses
2019-11-24T15:34:30 < zyp> thing is, I want to be able to run the shit off plain usb power
2019-11-24T15:35:05 < Steffanx> Do you also want to disable all power rails? 
2019-11-24T15:35:17 < Steffanx> Dont forget to add 15 BSRs :P
2019-11-24T15:35:25 < zyp> haha
2019-11-24T15:38:28 < Steffanx> At work we did something kinda similar, but using a zynq and the board inserted defines how the i/o is configured (except for some basic i2c etc).
2019-11-24T15:40:41 < Steffanx> With lunix on one of the cores and some bm app on the other.
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2019-11-24T16:35:18 < kakipr0> which end should series resistors of such data line as RMII be placed?
2019-11-24T16:35:34 < kakipr0> next to driver pin?
2019-11-24T16:35:44 < kakipr0> next to receiver pin?
2019-11-24T16:37:03 < zyp> the fuck do you need series resistors for
2019-11-24T16:38:04 < BrainDamage> driver, but your lines will be so short it doesn't matter
2019-11-24T16:38:57 < kakipr0> zyp: i don't even know
2019-11-24T16:39:00 < Thorn> aren't you supposed to match the receiving end so that it doesn't look like an open ciruit?
2019-11-24T16:39:09 < BrainDamage> you can match the source
2019-11-24T16:39:17 < BrainDamage> the echos will settle after a single roundtrip
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2019-11-24T16:39:32 < BrainDamage> it's problematic if both source and load are mismatched
2019-11-24T16:39:44 < kakipr0> examples do not have series resistors in management bus
2019-11-24T16:39:47 < kakipr0> is that ok?
2019-11-24T16:40:17 < zyp> MDIO is not highspeed
2019-11-24T16:42:24 < Steffanx> Didnt you phy have some stuff built in kakipr0?
2019-11-24T16:42:44 < kakipr0> y
2019-11-24T16:44:21 < Steffanx> idk why.
2019-11-24T16:44:25 < superbia> hola
2019-11-24T16:44:31 < superbia> como estas amigos
2019-11-24T16:44:40 < Steffanx> whoa, welcome to our channel superbia.
2019-11-24T16:45:35  * superbia visit Steffanx at home for christmas
2019-11-24T16:45:52 < Steffanx> nah ty
2019-11-24T16:46:01 < superbia> i can make ramen
2019-11-24T16:46:41 < Steffanx> Im not really into japenese food.
2019-11-24T16:47:43 < superbia> so only japanese students that like to dress in highscool gear?
2019-11-24T16:48:44 < kakipr0> anyone have approx value for trace width and spacing for 100ohm diff pair on 4layer board surface layer?
2019-11-24T16:49:07 < superbia> just use trace.me
2019-11-24T16:49:26 < kakipr0> ?
2019-11-24T16:49:51 < superbia> it's a website for tracing
2019-11-24T16:49:59 < BrainDamage> kikecad has a calculator
2019-11-24T16:52:59 < dongs> trace.me sounds liek some scam site
2019-11-24T16:53:30 < dongs> one of those "track every shitty package while stealing ur cookiez" sites
2019-11-24T16:54:14 < kakipr0> yes
2019-11-24T16:54:19 < kakipr0> BrainDamage: where?
2019-11-24T16:56:57 < kakipr0> oh
2019-11-24T16:57:03 < kakipr0> main window
2019-11-24T17:02:52 < Thorn> I'm bitbanging an 8-bit bus with clock. is it faster to put the clock onto the same port as data (GPIOA[7:0]) or on a separate gpio port? 0->1 clock transitions latch data so I can save a gpio write by resetting clock to 0 at the same time as I write new data
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2019-11-24T17:03:46 < Laurenceb_> sup
2019-11-24T17:03:57 < kakipr0> how does spacing 0,28 and trace width 0,3 sound like for 100ohm diff pair?
2019-11-24T17:04:07 < Laurenceb_> >I can partially end this speculation about why SpaceX decided to scrap their plans to fly Starship Mk1 even before the explosion
2019-11-24T17:04:19 < Laurenceb_> >the plan officially changed two days ago when Elon showed up and had a fit
2019-11-24T17:04:29 < Laurenceb_> >posted by "HeartOfGold"
2019-11-24T17:04:36 < Laurenceb_> who could this possibly be
2019-11-24T17:05:24 < Thorn> Laurenceb_: who paid your bail
2019-11-24T17:05:28 < Laurenceb_> the guy who sells cheap domestic appliances as "cybertrucks"
2019-11-24T17:05:32 < Laurenceb_> keek Thorn
2019-11-24T17:05:37 < Thorn> aren't you supposed to be arrested
2019-11-24T17:05:43 < Laurenceb_> probably
2019-11-24T17:05:46 < Laurenceb_> not yet tho
2019-11-24T17:05:51 < Laurenceb_> maybe tomorrow
2019-11-24T17:06:29 < Laurenceb_> I feel sorry for Musk now, he is the new Shaun Bishop
2019-11-24T17:08:56 < BrainDamage> the explosion was kind of planned, it was an overpressurization test
2019-11-24T17:09:17 < Laurenceb_> Elon Musk sockpupetting everywhere now
2019-11-24T17:09:22 < BrainDamage>  https://www.forbes.com/sites/startswithabang/2019/11/20/this-is-how-elon-musk-can-fix-the-damage-his-starlink-satellites-are-causing-to-astronomy/
2019-11-24T17:09:31 < BrainDamage> but he's still an asshole
2019-11-24T17:09:35 < Laurenceb_> yup
2019-11-24T17:09:56 < Laurenceb_> >creates huge buzz
2019-11-24T17:10:07 < Laurenceb_> >gets workers to work for him for minimum wage
2019-11-24T17:10:30 < superbia> why are you even talking about elon
2019-11-24T17:10:33 < superbia> he is fucking nobody
2019-11-24T17:10:50 < Laurenceb_> fucking Bezos sockpuppets too wtf
2019-11-24T17:12:42 < dongs> whats stardink
2019-11-24T17:12:55 < Steffanx> how minimum was your wage at the uni Laurenceb_?
2019-11-24T17:12:57 < dongs> ah free facebook for niggers
2019-11-24T17:13:08 < kakipr0> muskies space internet
2019-11-24T17:13:08 < BrainDamage> same as project loon of google, but with sats instead of balloons
2019-11-24T17:13:17 < Laurenceb_> like 2x min wage
2019-11-24T17:13:34 < kakipr0> dongs: basically but also lower latency between continents
2019-11-24T17:13:37 < superbia> Steffanx: bbl
2019-11-24T17:13:47 < Steffanx> good bye
2019-11-24T17:14:09 < kakipr0> I did my first diff pair
2019-11-24T17:14:20 < BrainDamage> I don't see how they'd reduce latency over submarine cables
2019-11-24T17:14:39 < Laurenceb_> speed of light in free space I guess
2019-11-24T17:14:46 < BrainDamage> for one, the ocean is not 100km deep
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2019-11-24T17:15:05 < Laurenceb_> rather than ~c/1.4 in fibre
2019-11-24T17:16:37 < BrainDamage> hopefully sat internet will be less invasive wrt positioning than cell services
2019-11-24T17:16:49 < BrainDamage> since the beam uncertainty will be way larger
2019-11-24T17:17:00 < Laurenceb_> the elephant in the room is expensive gnd stations
2019-11-24T17:17:19 < Laurenceb_> all users have to buy one, unlike loon that connects to regular smartphones
2019-11-24T17:17:20 < BrainDamage> iridium gets away with a mesh network for p2p coms
2019-11-24T17:17:31 < BrainDamage> oh, you mean at client side
2019-11-24T17:17:35 < Laurenceb_> yeah
2019-11-24T17:17:54 < Laurenceb_> apparently starlink client stations will be >$300
2019-11-24T17:18:02 < Laurenceb_> few people are going to pay for that
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2019-11-24T17:18:30 < Laurenceb_> loon just works with regular unmodified smartphones, just need the right sim
2019-11-24T17:18:56 < BrainDamage> that's not prohibitive, quite a few users in the first world will get it, if the modem becomes commonplace it'll start getting integrated in commodity devices
2019-11-24T17:19:15 < Steffanx> poor loons on the web, not sure i'll be able to handle that.
2019-11-24T17:19:33 < BrainDamage> consider that iridium is still alive, and a client costs 1k bucks, let alone the service fees
2019-11-24T17:19:46 < Laurenceb_> BrainDamage: the "modem" is like a 30x30cm pad
2019-11-24T17:20:32 < BrainDamage> you can probably sacrifice snr for smaller antennas like phones do
2019-11-24T17:20:43 < kakipr0> lurence: how is dole?
2019-11-24T17:20:45 < BrainDamage> but yes, shrinking from 30cm sounds painful
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2019-11-24T17:21:04 < Laurenceb_> kakipr0: I have epin business plans
2019-11-24T17:21:15 < Laurenceb_> also no dole as I'm too rich
2019-11-24T17:21:19 < Laurenceb_> to qualify
2019-11-24T17:22:26 < kakipr0> yes
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2019-11-24T17:23:32 < kakipr0> you miss the experience
2019-11-24T17:24:12 < sync> Laurenceb_: lots of people are already using sat interwobs
2019-11-24T17:24:31 < sync> because it has moar bandwidth than competing solutions at acceptable cost
2019-11-24T17:25:22 < Steffanx> where does kakipr0 get his money? Savings?
2019-11-24T17:25:29 < kakipr0> yes
2019-11-24T17:26:10 < kakipr0> I actually could dole but I could not be arsed to
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2019-11-24T17:37:00 <@englishman> the thing about laurenceb's plans is they remain plans
2019-11-24T17:40:46 <@englishman> I hope the next tesla product is a dump truck named cyberdump
2019-11-24T17:43:20 < Steffanx> whats next? a mail truck and its called email?
2019-11-24T17:44:17 < Steffanx> anyway, did you preorder on yet?
2019-11-24T17:44:36 < Laurenceb_> when will Shaun Bishop..  mean musk launch the cyber stove?
2019-11-24T17:45:26 < Steffanx> i wonder how many in here actually now who that is, Laurenceb_
2019-11-24T17:45:41 < Laurenceb_> he is very famous
2019-11-24T17:45:55 < Laurenceb_> cybrmatrix tu 2000
2019-11-24T17:45:58 < Steffanx> Dont forget we dont live on the same planet as you
2019-11-24T17:46:59 < Laurenceb_> http://kickfailure.com/2014/04/11/3669/
2019-11-24T17:47:05 < Steffanx> must he this one, not a surprised i dont know him: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jE6DmLcD9ms
2019-11-24T17:48:47 <@englishman> yes steffy wifeishman wants a cybertruck
2019-11-24T17:49:01 < Laurenceb_> ywlts Musk become Shaun
2019-11-24T17:49:22 <@englishman> it will be a cool farm vehicle for an organic farmer and lead of an anti pipeline organization
2019-11-24T17:50:39 < Laurenceb_> epic lulz https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-derbyshire-50501203
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2019-11-24T18:50:01 < jadew> Steffanx, clicking on that link instantly gave me gypsy music recommendations
2019-11-24T18:51:04 < tomeaton17> you have been cursed
2019-11-24T18:51:26 < jadew> how do I undo it?
2019-11-24T18:57:27 < tomeaton17> You need the help of a professional spell caster
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2019-11-24T19:19:13 < Steffanx> haha try to undo it with more shitty music?
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2019-11-24T19:25:54 < bitmask> should I go through the process of making this toaster oven smart or just get it usable and use a thermocouple and manually adjust it for now
2019-11-24T19:25:54 <@englishman> farmer neighbour ordered 2 cybertrucks
2019-11-24T19:26:01 < bitmask> decisions decisions
2019-11-24T19:29:13 < Steffanx> what is smart?
2019-11-24T19:33:51 < bitmask> connecting all the heaters to the board and having it fully controlled by the mcu, following a reflow profile
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2019-11-24T19:38:06 < qyx> zyp: tps54240 for up to few amps
2019-11-24T19:39:02 < qyx> also I use the other tps 5-28V
2019-11-24T19:39:10 < qyx> thats cheaper, low Iq
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2019-11-24T19:40:56 < qyx> TPS62175, 4.75V to 28V
2019-11-24T19:41:47 < qyx> but they are not china-rated and not under <$1
2019-11-24T19:43:39 < zyp> heh
2019-11-24T19:44:40 < zyp> I put up some old z-wave devices that I don't use anymore for sale, was planning to sell them as a lot
2019-11-24T19:45:05 < zyp> within minutes of it going live, I've got four people messaging me wanting to buy one of the devices, the same one
2019-11-24T19:45:23 < qyx> z-wave is still a thing?
2019-11-24T19:46:31 < zyp> dunno, poked around with it a few weeks ago and it seems like a lot changed since last time I did
2019-11-24T19:46:41 < zyp> not necessarily for the better
2019-11-24T19:51:10 < qyx> dongs: it is a dual-cell 5A charger, 10-24V input, +gauge, +5V/4A buck
2019-11-24T19:51:36 < qyx> with battery preheating and such dumbness
2019-11-24T19:53:04 < qyx> related, I have a partially failed LiFePO4 cell
2019-11-24T19:53:13 < qyx> anyone familiar with LiFePO4 failure modes?
2019-11-24T19:53:54 < qyx> it rests at 0V, during charging it has ~low internal resistance, the voltage rises very slowly
2019-11-24T19:54:08 < qyx> and nearly everything put in the cell is transformed to heat
2019-11-24T19:54:26 < qyx> when the cccv source is disconnected, the voltage drops to 0V within minutes
2019-11-24T19:55:26 < qyx> but the more cycles I attempt, the faster the voltage rises during charging and the slower it falls to 0V
2019-11-24T20:00:56 <@englishman> then internal resistance is rising?
2019-11-24T20:01:41 < kakipr0> litium cell rests at 0V :D:DD
2019-11-24T20:01:46 < kakipr0> it's done
2019-11-24T20:02:39 < kakipr0> if it rests at 0V it's not partially failed
2019-11-24T20:03:33 < jpa-> qyx: sounds like internal short-circuit, pretty common failure mode
2019-11-24T20:03:50 < jpa-> if it was li-ion instead of lifepo4, it would be more obvious ;)
2019-11-24T20:10:09 < qyx> you mean with appropriate effects
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2019-11-24T20:13:53 < qyx> Do not boost lithium-based batteries back to life that have dwelled below 1.5V/cell for a week or longer. Copper shunts may have formed inside the cells that can lead to a partial or total electrical short. When recharging, such a cell might become unstable, causing excessive heat or show other anomalies
2019-11-24T20:13:59 < qyx> ok, maybe thats the case
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2019-11-24T20:18:00 < Cracki> that old glued-in lithium battery I pried out of my phone now has a weird knot in it. a thick spot. I'm not sure I did that entirely by prying or if that's some kind of corrosion/growth around the damaged spots...
2019-11-24T20:18:18 < Cracki> upto now I only knew them to bloat
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2019-11-24T20:25:37 < emeb> qyx: I bought a lithium battery for my phone that had apparently sat on the shelf for a few years - charge was ~2.6V and my phone refused to charge it. I trickle charged it w/ ~30ma until it was 3.2V and then the phone was happy to take it the rest of the way. It's been working OK for a few weeks now.
2019-11-24T20:26:45 < kakipr0> 2.6V no problem
2019-11-24T20:27:24 < kakipr0> there is no reason for vendor to take a risk charging even slightly undercharged batteries in their products
2019-11-24T20:27:51 < qyx> I am not taling about a product
2019-11-24T20:27:54 < qyx> *talking
2019-11-24T20:29:30 < kakipr0> I'm referring to emeb
2019-11-24T20:29:39 < Cracki> when I bought a replacement battery for my phone, the new one must have been ancient as well (just relabled to be "new") because it degraded over mere months
2019-11-24T20:30:06 < emeb> Cracki: yeah - I think there are a lot of sketchy resellers out there.
2019-11-24T20:30:35 < Cracki> customer rights should include lynching
2019-11-24T20:30:58 < emeb> If  you can find the seller - most hide behind ebay / amazon
2019-11-24T20:31:55 < emeb> I got this one from an amazon storefront - first cell they sent was obviously damaged (had a big dent in it). I complained and they sent another for free. Both were ancient and discharged.
2019-11-24T20:32:15 < kakipr0> my n900 nokia has coloumb counter
2019-11-24T20:32:25 < kakipr0> can't just charge batteries externally
2019-11-24T20:32:41 < kakipr0> or I mean -> it only relies on coloumb counter
2019-11-24T20:32:53 < kakipr0> it says battery is empty and it will shut down
2019-11-24T20:33:00 < PaulFertser> kakipr0: are you still using n900?
2019-11-24T20:33:10 < kakipr0> no but I got one
2019-11-24T20:33:26 < kakipr0> figured it would be a platform of sorts but nah
2019-11-24T20:33:50 < kakipr0> it's kind of totem now
2019-11-24T20:33:58 < PaulFertser> Yes, too bad it all ended like that. Hardware keyboard was really cool.
2019-11-24T20:34:31 < kakipr0> display was shit
2019-11-24T20:34:39 < kakipr0> touch thing was really bad
2019-11-24T20:35:03 < kakipr0> capacitive had been thing for few years then
2019-11-24T20:35:32 < kakipr0> they went with R type
2019-11-24T20:35:34 < PaulFertser> well, resistive touch allows for really precise operation if you're using any stylus or fingernail.
2019-11-24T20:36:01 < PaulFertser> So it's not a matter of the touch being bad. It's a matter of you not using fingernails ;)
2019-11-24T20:36:43 < emeb> haha
2019-11-24T20:36:51 < kakipr0> yeah it had stylus
2019-11-24T20:38:09 < kakipr0> but it was made of cheap not the bestests parts at the time
2019-11-24T20:38:20 < kakipr0> sideproject
2019-11-24T20:38:47 < PaulFertser> TI OMAP is professional SoC
2019-11-24T20:40:08 < Cracki> pr0
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2019-11-24T20:42:32 < kakipr0> idk. I think it was pretty low processing power and power efficiently compared to other products at the time
2019-11-24T20:43:48 < kakipr0> I remember it idled the whole battery in like 12hours
2019-11-24T20:44:11 < kakipr0> and in active use in no time at all
2019-11-24T20:44:24 < PaulFertser> Android can do the same
2019-11-24T20:44:30 < PaulFertser> If certain stupid apps are installed.
2019-11-24T20:49:24 < kakipr0> well sure if you have burners running
2019-11-24T20:53:47 < kakipr0> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zmoFqqcVJtg
2019-11-24T20:53:50 < kakipr0> musics ofc
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2019-11-24T20:54:31 < emeb> doof doof doof...
2019-11-24T20:54:48 < kakipr0> dj kaki
2019-11-24T20:55:12 < emeb> 1998. so old.
2019-11-24T20:55:26 < kakipr0> throwing that classic bass boom at you
2019-11-24T20:55:50 < emeb> so much flange
2019-11-24T20:56:22 < kakipr0> hey it was somebody else that linked 1998 orginal mix to me?
2019-11-24T20:59:12 < kakipr0> was it steff?
2019-11-24T21:00:53 <@englishman> kakipr0: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lUSED3W6H20
2019-11-24T21:01:10 < kakipr0> PaulFertser: do you work on mobile phones(design)?
2019-11-24T21:01:32 < PaulFertser> kakipr0: nope, I was an active OpenMoko community member, just that.
2019-11-24T21:03:04 < kakipr0> that BPM englishman :o
2019-11-24T21:03:30 < kakipr0> I think BPM was maxed out around 2012
2019-11-24T21:03:43 < kakipr0> with 400bpm electronic pop musics
2019-11-24T21:03:51 < kakipr0> then it has slowly started going down
2019-11-24T21:04:12 <@englishman> as amphetamines decline in popularity and alcohol makes a triumphant return
2019-11-24T21:07:21 < kakipr0> that's kinda ok but kinda sad
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2019-11-24T21:07:26 < Steffanx> cat beer.
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2019-11-24T21:14:16 < kakipr0> did you ever rave englishman?
2019-11-24T21:14:39 <@englishman> sounds dangerous
2019-11-24T21:16:35 < Steffanx> special music for kakipr0 then? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eINgmy4dUOA
2019-11-24T21:17:05 < Steffanx> its actually better than i expected.
2019-11-24T21:17:36 < Ultrasauce> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ML3K4W1b0ME
2019-11-24T21:18:04 < Steffanx> i need more drugs for music like that Ultrasauce
2019-11-24T21:18:18 < Ultrasauce> its really good for driving
2019-11-24T21:18:23 < Ultrasauce> makes me want to go too fast though
2019-11-24T21:18:39 < Steffanx> how can this make you too fast?
2019-11-24T21:18:43 < Steffanx> the scooter song ok, but this.. ?
2019-11-24T21:20:16 < Steffanx> or do you play it at 1.25x or more
2019-11-24T21:21:30 < Ultrasauce> no
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2019-11-24T21:26:36 < Steffanx> is it like coffee and/or beer. You have to learn to appriciate it? ( or you just hate it )
2019-11-24T21:28:09 < Thorn> what is "linear arithmetic synthesis" https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BMmFcs-_4x4
2019-11-24T21:28:10 < Ultrasauce> seems more broadly palatable than most of the stuff i link in here
2019-11-24T21:29:12 < Ultrasauce> its a marketing term Thorn
2019-11-24T21:29:40 < Thorn> how does it work though
2019-11-24T21:30:55 < Ultrasauce> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Linear_Arithmetic_synthesis
2019-11-24T21:33:20 < Ultrasauce> a weird ass hybrid
2019-11-24T21:36:23 < Ultrasauce> that guy's wall mount networking setup makes me mad
2019-11-24T21:39:29 < Steffanx> its certainly looks much cleaner than my setup
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2019-11-24T22:13:49 < kakipr0> PaulFertser: in what other projects you are/were active?
2019-11-24T22:14:02 < kakipr0> usually one doesn't just participate in one project
2019-11-24T22:14:52 < qyx> https://octavosystems.com/app_notes/osd335x-sm-design-tutorial/#INTRO
2019-11-24T22:15:01 < qyx> bga with design tutorial in eagle
2019-11-24T22:15:09 < qyx> such iot
2019-11-24T22:16:04 < PaulFertser> kakipr0: openocd, and a bit in openwrt.
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2019-11-24T22:18:42 < PaulFertser> kakipr0: and I'm using only free software so when I'm facing a problem I'm usually trying to fix it and send a patch.
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--- Day changed Mon Nov 25 2019
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2019-11-25T00:07:41 < kakipr0> https://drive.google.com/file/d/1oWk5WmuXFmrSy_JJdlAIpIn-CxwOzovD/view?usp=sharing anyone know if there is footprint compatible vertical rj45 with magnetics?
2019-11-25T00:08:58 < kakipr0> mcu pinout says that I pretty much need to have order usb - ethernet - usart2 pin row
2019-11-25T00:09:22 < kakipr0> everything will be packed in that corner then
2019-11-25T00:09:34 < Steffanx> No shrouded pin headers kakipr0  ? What if I stick the module in wrong?
2019-11-25T00:10:15 < Steffanx> Is that an LDR? Those things still exist?
2019-11-25T00:10:36 < kakipr0> it's impossible to put it in upside down
2019-11-25T00:10:50 < kakipr0> also it will have keypin
2019-11-25T00:11:09 < kakipr0> also spacing of those pin rows is not divideable with 2.54mm
2019-11-25T00:11:23 < kakipr0> ofc you can force it
2019-11-25T00:11:34 < Steffanx> Ok, key pin is fine  I guess
2019-11-25T00:12:43 < kakipr0> I should maybe change to smaller LDR
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2019-11-25T00:14:39 < qyx> zyp: do I understand it correctly I can omit ID pin on the main board and force the usb into host-only mode? no electrical considerations should be made?
2019-11-25T00:14:43 < Steffanx> Upside down wasnt my concern, mainly shifted a fewer pins to the left or right
2019-11-25T00:14:50 < Steffanx> Few*
2019-11-25T00:15:29 < qyx> I have two OTG ports on a OSD335x-SM, I want to use one on the front panel (OTG)
2019-11-25T00:15:45 < qyx> and the other one connected to a HUB upstream port
2019-11-25T00:16:18 < qyx> downstream ports facing the backplane + minipcie slots for modems
2019-11-25T00:17:06 < qyx> kakipr0: vertical battery S:
2019-11-25T00:17:25 < kakipr0> sure
2019-11-25T00:17:26 < kakipr0> also
2019-11-25T00:17:28 < kakipr0> cheap
2019-11-25T00:17:37 < qyx> how much
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2019-11-25T00:18:24 < qyx> also you wont be able to fit any cable into the micro-b slot
2019-11-25T00:18:40 < qyx> it is too close to RJ45
2019-11-25T00:19:36 < kakipr0> yeah I added spacing by moving phy up
2019-11-25T00:19:42 < kakipr0> as far as it goes
2019-11-25T00:19:57 < kakipr0> and a bit rj45 up
2019-11-25T00:20:09 < zyp> qyx, yeah, generally you can override it with a software setting
2019-11-25T00:21:15 < kakipr0> I think I can forget my slotted isolated areas for xtals
2019-11-25T00:21:16 < qyx> I am not entirely sure about the minipci-e slots though
2019-11-25T00:21:20 < kakipr0> xtals go where they go
2019-11-25T00:21:34 < qyx> they would break the whole concept
2019-11-25T00:24:15 < qyx> https://www.assured-systems.com/uploads/media/products/accesio/mpcie-icm232-4-v.[1].jpg
2019-11-25T00:24:18 < qyx> truth assured
2019-11-25T00:24:28 < qyx> such true ports
2019-11-25T00:28:03 <@englishman> wut
2019-11-25T00:33:20 < kakipr0> i2c?
2019-11-25T00:33:35 < kakipr0> uarts?
2019-11-25T00:34:24 < qyx> thats not the point
2019-11-25T00:34:33 < qyx> whatever it is, it is true
2019-11-25T00:35:25 < kakipr0> yes
2019-11-25T01:13:07 < kakipr0> diff pairs do not behave
2019-11-25T01:22:35 < qyx> I am not able to find a uni-directional OTG power switch
2019-11-25T01:22:40 < qyx> idk if my reasoning is right
2019-11-25T01:23:12 < qyx> can I just sense ID and if it is low, enable power output to the OTG port?
2019-11-25T01:23:35 < qyx> all OTG power switch I found are bidirectional, I don't need that
2019-11-25T01:24:02 < zyp> IIRC grounded is A, floating is B
2019-11-25T01:24:13 < zyp> so yes, sense with a pullup, low means turn on VBUS output
2019-11-25T01:24:46 < qyx> that simple?
2019-11-25T01:25:28 < zyp> IIRC yes
2019-11-25T01:26:39 < qyx> fuk 30min wasted
2019-11-25T01:28:26 < zyp> there's some SRP/HNP stuff to negotiate role switches after the fact, to override ID, but those are optional, as I understand it
2019-11-25T01:29:52 < Steffanx> All this otg power switching. It's still makes me cry. Where this client decided to use an usb A port and do the switching in software...
2019-11-25T01:30:08 < zyp> heh
2019-11-25T01:30:10 < Steffanx> And a custom A-A cable
2019-11-25T01:30:23 < Steffanx> For when they wanted to attach it to a pc
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2019-11-25T01:32:00 < zyp> this android tablet I bought has an A socket labelled «serial port»
2019-11-25T01:32:20 < zyp> next to two identical sockets that are labelled «USB»
2019-11-25T01:32:35 < zyp> and also a micro-B socket labelled «OTG»
2019-11-25T01:33:36 < Steffanx> They first used a proper micro-USB socket, but then they decided to not use that, because it needs an adapter for a usb stick.
2019-11-25T01:34:32 < Steffanx> I get their point, but the software switch makes me cry.
2019-11-25T01:34:36 < zyp> haha
2019-11-25T01:34:45 < Steffanx> It's not automatic, just a menu item
2019-11-25T01:34:48 < zyp> I'm looking forward until everything switches to USB-C
2019-11-25T01:35:26 < qyx> oh I can be innovative and use usb-c instead
2019-11-25T01:35:36 < Steffanx> Nah
2019-11-25T01:35:41 < catphish> dongs: you know you're not allowed to say niggers, right?
2019-11-25T01:35:48 < qyx> I planned to use A + micro-ab on the front panel
2019-11-25T01:35:54 < qyx> catphish: :D
2019-11-25T01:36:03 < catphish> morning all
2019-11-25T01:36:04 < Steffanx> What he cant say, catphish  ?
2019-11-25T01:36:06 < zyp> qyx, fuck doing OTG with microusb nowadays
2019-11-25T01:36:27 < qyx> I want otg because rndis and serial terminal
2019-11-25T01:36:32 < catphish> usb c master race
2019-11-25T01:36:36 < qyx> also I want usb-a because flash sticks
2019-11-25T01:36:44 < qyx> so
2019-11-25T01:36:59 < catphish> C + dongle = anything :)
2019-11-25T01:37:13 < zyp> A sockets are fair enough still
2019-11-25T01:37:17 < Steffanx> but who has that mr catphish  
2019-11-25T01:37:21 < qyx> fuck A sockets
2019-11-25T01:37:26 < qyx> then
2019-11-25T01:37:33 < Steffanx> Certainly not those who we are not allowed to mention
2019-11-25T01:37:34 < catphish> Steffanx: apple customer
2019-11-25T01:37:44 < zyp> but I wouldn't use micro-ab on anything, and I'd think twice before putting micro-b on something too
2019-11-25T01:37:50 < catphish> Steffanx: apple customers have like 1,000 dongles
2019-11-25T01:38:25 < Steffanx> I had 1. Just dp to VGA, back in the time
2019-11-25T01:38:47 < catphish> i really do love C, but A is kinda appealing if you want USB sticks, and B has a nice rugged feel
2019-11-25T01:38:58 < catphish> micro USB can suck my balls.
2019-11-25T01:39:06 < qyx> ok zyp, I take your word for it, going with usb-c, deleting usb-a and micro-ab
2019-11-25T01:39:14 < qyx> if it doesn't work, you shall get 2m of snow
2019-11-25T01:39:31 < catphish> zyp: usb-c is clearly the way to go for a new design
2019-11-25T01:39:39 < Steffanx> Hasn't micro usb better specs, catphish  ?
2019-11-25T01:39:41 < catphish> just a shame about USB sticks
2019-11-25T01:39:45 < Steffanx> More mates etc.
2019-11-25T01:39:51 < qyx> I can trash the hub too
2019-11-25T01:40:04 < zyp> qyx, I'm not saying throw away the A socket
2019-11-25T01:40:07 < zyp> just the micro-ab
2019-11-25T01:40:13 < qyx> one otg to the backplane, the other one to the front panel
2019-11-25T01:40:23 < catphish> Steffanx: weirdly yes, but i've seen micro usb sockets torn off, i've never seen a USB B exceed its rated insertions
2019-11-25T01:40:30 < qyx> the only reason for A socket was for usb flash
2019-11-25T01:40:34 < qyx> there is also a SD socket
2019-11-25T01:40:52 < catphish> usb flash is a reason to have A, otherwise 100% USB C
2019-11-25T01:41:12 < qyx> you can either use a SD card or a usb-c flash in the field
2019-11-25T01:41:16 < catphish> my last design used B because it just seemed simple, but C is superior in every way
2019-11-25T01:41:24 < Steffanx> I only have 2 USB c cables and a shitload of mini and micro usb :p
2019-11-25T01:41:36 < catphish> Steffanx: that'll change soon enough i'm sure
2019-11-25T01:41:39 < qyx> I have no usb-ca cables
2019-11-25T01:41:51 < catphish> i just replaced all the chargers around my house with USB V
2019-11-25T01:41:54 < catphish> *USB C
2019-11-25T01:42:12 < catphish> pretty much everything i have uses it now
2019-11-25T01:42:27 < Steffanx> I dont change chargers, just the cable.
2019-11-25T01:42:58 < catphish> i rather like these: https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/GENUINE-Original-DELL-Charger-USB-C-Power-Supply-AC-Adapter-65W-2YK0F/113201208466?epid=11010229870&hash=item1a5b515c92:g:tNUAAOSwvYZbvIiI
2019-11-25T01:43:36 < catphish> they have an appeal to me over wallwarts
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2019-11-25T01:51:34 < kakipr0> nice idea
2019-11-25T01:51:55 < kakipr0> usb-c source module to kakipower hub
2019-11-25T01:54:18 < Cracki> blasting rocks https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FK--7o2bfGI
2019-11-25T01:54:21 < qyx> https://cdn.alza.sk/ImgW.ashx?fd=f3&cd=JU253d1
2019-11-25T01:54:26 < qyx> wrf
2019-11-25T01:54:42 < Cracki> a transformer
2019-11-25T01:55:17 < qyx> are they nuts https://cdn.alza.sk/ImgW.ashx?fd=f3&cd=VKNG063
2019-11-25T01:55:33 < qyx> is it 2050
2019-11-25T01:56:01 < Cracki> three standards to rule each other
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2019-11-25T02:34:42 < qyx> so now I am trying to find a dual role power and data usb-c controller
2019-11-25T02:36:27 < catphish> yay, i finally got usb mass storage working
2019-11-25T02:37:20 < dongs> qyx, use one of those cypress garbages
2019-11-25T02:37:36 < dongs> CCG3 or whateverf
2019-11-25T02:37:53 < dongs> then you get to deal with retarded cortex-m with shitty docs, shitty devtools and even shtitier hw
2019-11-25T02:38:16 < catphish> 901632 bytes (902 kB, 880 KiB) copied, 1.18458 s, 761 kB/s
2019-11-25T02:39:08 < qyx> what about STUSB1600
2019-11-25T02:39:18 < catphish> usb c power seems like black magic
2019-11-25T02:40:50 < dongs> https://hackaday.io/project/165533-stusb1600-usb-type-c-controller-breakout-board by arduino182
2019-11-25T02:41:02 < dongs> made wtih kikecad even
2019-11-25T02:41:05 < dongs> already winning
2019-11-25T02:41:27 < qyx> wjats that deab bug mode
2019-11-25T02:41:33 < qyx> dead bug
2019-11-25T02:41:44 < dongs> what is that?
2019-11-25T02:41:46 < catphish> that looks super useful
2019-11-25T02:41:48 < dongs> dead battery mode or wahtever?
2019-11-25T02:41:53 < qyx> yeah
2019-11-25T02:42:02 < qyx> probably for devices withjou a battery
2019-11-25T02:42:11 < dongs> no, its for devices WITH a battery
2019-11-25T02:42:13 < dongs> thats completely dead
2019-11-25T02:42:24 < qyx> or with a 0V shorted liion after explosion
2019-11-25T02:43:00 < qyx> I want to use it in a device without a battery
2019-11-25T02:43:09 < qyx> should work
2019-11-25T02:47:07 < dongs> https://twitter.com/towatei/status/1198757206440562688 imagine blowing $6k on new crapple laptop and then breaking it next day
2019-11-25T02:54:04 < doomba> i'm glad i'll never be rich enough or normie enough to buy an apple product
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2019-11-25T04:00:06 < dongs> haha
2019-11-25T04:00:12 < dongs> libusb lost their (only?) active windows develoepr
2019-11-25T04:00:23 < dongs> https://github.com/libusb/libusb/issues/619#issuecomment-557957427
2019-11-25T04:00:28 < dongs> RIP
2019-11-25T04:04:30 < zyp> last comment is totally missing the point
2019-11-25T04:21:03 < dongs> yes of course
2019-11-25T04:21:21 < dongs> i was gonna reply but closed the page in disgust
2019-11-25T04:21:23 < dongs> instead
2019-11-25T04:21:36 < dongs> its also extemely user unfriendly to do full-driver replacement including HID
2019-11-25T04:21:41 < dongs> with zadig or whatever
2019-11-25T04:21:51 < dongs> and could lead to user fucking more shit up than solving
2019-11-25T04:26:33 < zyp> and also if the HID interface wasn't useful it wouldn't be there at all
2019-11-25T04:26:53 < zyp> shit shouldn't be «use either or», both should work, at the same time
2019-11-25T04:31:44 < dongs> yeah i dont udnerstand why they are even bothering with hid there
2019-11-25T04:31:51 < dongs> what a HIDeous idea
2019-11-25T04:38:59 < jadew> morning
2019-11-25T04:45:25 < Cracki> uh... october 1 commenter looks FAMILIAR
2019-11-25T04:46:10 < Cracki> >afrodevices
2019-11-25T04:49:04 < Cracki> aaand shithub is down
2019-11-25T04:51:43 < dongs> Cracki: duh why would i care about a random shit bug report in opensores
2019-11-25T04:51:46 < dongs> unless it was affecting me
2019-11-25T04:52:28 < Cracki> because it's funny
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2019-11-25T08:38:02 < aandrew> I see dongs has been busy: https://edition.cnn.com/travel/article/livestream-hotel-room-japan-intl-hnk/index.html
2019-11-25T08:48:56 < aandrew> how to be a latin lover is such a funny movie
2019-11-25T08:49:13 < aandrew> 10yo boy: I'm great in bed! I don't pee in it or anything!
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2019-11-25T13:24:01 < Thorn> my super weird 2-pcb keypad actually seems to work
2019-11-25T13:24:21 < Thorn> now I need to write a proper scan procedure for it
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2019-11-25T13:31:48 < Thorn> https://i.imgur.com/ZBdLb6o.jpg
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2019-11-25T14:55:14 < jadew> when I look at this I see 3 guys in weird robot costumes: http://perfectfitmagazine.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/09/mr-olympia-2015-review.jpg
2019-11-25T14:56:22 < jadew> you could even imagine that the first guy on the left is just standing straight, with his hands behind his back
2019-11-25T14:56:31 < jadew> there's enough room in there for him to do that
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2019-11-25T15:28:33 < dongs> man vs.net dialog editor hasnt changed in decades
2019-11-25T15:28:43 < dongs> except they keep breaking it more
2019-11-25T15:28:51 < dongs> in 2017 you can't use arrow keys to nudge teh controls around
2019-11-25T15:29:10 < dongs> and the click+drag has such terrible accuracy, when you pickup the control by click+hold it will already be off by few random pixels
2019-11-25T15:29:29 < dongs> im certain i was able to arrowkeys stuff to align shit in older versions
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2019-11-25T15:33:47 < kakipr0> hello dongs
2019-11-25T15:34:54 < dongs> sup
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2019-11-25T15:59:09 < dongs> wow molex site what the fuck lol
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2019-11-25T16:07:37 < PaulFertser> dongs: do you mean you're designing dialogues without layouts?
2019-11-25T16:07:48 < PaulFertser> The old Delphi way?
2019-11-25T16:07:50 < kakipr0> dongs: you know if they make exact footprint of hanrun ethjack but vertical jacks ?
2019-11-25T16:08:08 < dongs> PaulFertser: you mean the current visualc way
2019-11-25T16:09:08 < PaulFertser> dongs: you're talking about some pixels as if you're literally placing controls on the form. That's just weird, aren't controls supposed to take their place automatically?
2019-11-25T16:09:22 < dongs> no, not in vc.
2019-11-25T16:09:25 < dongs> in .net dialog editor yes
2019-11-25T16:09:36 < dongs> vc is all pixel positioning, has been for decades
2019-11-25T16:09:54 < PaulFertser> That's just insane
2019-11-25T16:10:21 < PaulFertser> And how can that ever work for multi-language apps? And with different size fonts?
2019-11-25T16:10:31 < dongs> https://i.imgur.com/NVHiHT5.png 
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2019-11-25T16:10:50 < dongs> the dialog layout doesnt even have grid
2019-11-25T16:14:35 < PaulFertser> https://docs.microsoft.com/en-us/cpp/mfc/dynamic-layout?view=vs-2019 superb technology
2019-11-25T16:15:27 < kakipr0> teh scroll bar :O  it disappears
2019-11-25T16:15:36 < dongs> thats mfc
2019-11-25T16:16:45 < dongs> ah,. dynamic layout is there for this shit too. but it doesnt make much difference for these dialosg.
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2019-11-25T16:20:37 < dongs> did someone recommend me smallest max232 clone when i asked a few weeks ago
2019-11-25T16:25:17 < PaulFertser> No
2019-11-25T16:25:54 < dongs> Exar SP3232EEY-L/TR
2019-11-25T16:25:56 < dongs> this loosk ok
2019-11-25T16:26:02 < dongs> and cheap as fuck in china
2019-11-25T16:27:49 < Steffann> But can it do 1Megaabaud
2019-11-25T16:27:55 < PaulFertser> 16-TSSOP isn't that small
2019-11-25T16:28:07 < dongs> thats smallest that is available in large qtys
2019-11-25T16:28:21 < dongs> there's QFN32 and LFCSP32 but thats all single manufactrer
2019-11-25T16:28:22 < dongs> and $$
2019-11-25T16:29:42 < fenugrec> hin202 ?
2019-11-25T16:30:25 < dongs> i think tahts bigger
2019-11-25T16:30:46 < fenugrec> possibru
2019-11-25T16:35:42 < Thorn> what is the lowest power logic family? LV? LVC?
2019-11-25T16:45:06 < karlp> ahc?
2019-11-25T16:56:05 < kakipr0> ULP
2019-11-25T16:56:40 < kakipr0> https://www.mouser.fi/new/on-semiconductor/fairchildtinylogiculp/
2019-11-25T16:56:47 < kakipr0> sorry
2019-11-25T16:56:52 < kakipr0> https://www.mouser.com/new/on-semiconductor/fairchildtinylogiculp/
2019-11-25T17:13:27 < kakipr0> it's sub 3v
2019-11-25T17:13:40 < kakipr0> ulp-a is apparently 3.6v max
2019-11-25T17:14:42 < kakipr0> I don't really know I consider VHC as sufficient compromise
2019-11-25T17:14:57 < kakipr0> no need to look further
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2019-11-25T17:25:32 < bitmask> pcbs and oven arrive toda
2019-11-25T17:25:32 < bitmask> y
2019-11-25T17:26:20 < kakipr0> I need oven
2019-11-25T17:31:46 < bitmask> too bad I don't have all my components yet, lcsc order is in germany
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2019-11-25T17:57:33 < aandrew> I need to finish my oven
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2019-11-25T17:57:50 < aandrew> first I need to find another contract. the last few years were really easy with two nice contracts
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2019-11-25T18:03:13 < bitmask> maybe i'll work on the code for the oven today
2019-11-25T18:03:36 < bitmask> i'll look for some open source to port
2019-11-25T18:03:45 < bitmask> shouldn't be difficult
2019-11-25T18:05:35 < bitmask> I should print a case for the board + relays too, gotta get my printer up and running today
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2019-11-25T19:02:54 < srk> bitmask: I have canopen reflow reg fw for pt100 with hx711 and ssr :D
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2019-11-25T19:04:36 < bitmask> canopen reflow reg?
2019-11-25T19:04:45 < srk> yeah, for reflow oven
2019-11-25T19:05:16 < srk> simple PID, there's no UI tho but you can control it via CAN(Open)
2019-11-25T19:05:25 < bitmask> I decided im just gonna write it myself, its really not difficult, just a pid controller
2019-11-25T19:05:30 < bitmask> ohhh
2019-11-25T19:05:50 < srk> it not that simple as the response is quite slow (at least in my case it is like 30 seconds)
2019-11-25T19:06:22 < srk> so I change PID tune during the process + some other tweaks 
2019-11-25T19:06:27 < bitmask> doesnt that just require playing with the PID constants?
2019-11-25T19:06:39 < bitmask> the code itself is still easy though
2019-11-25T19:06:48 < karlp> developing for windows today is making me want to burn shit again.
2019-11-25T19:06:50 < karlp> holy fuck
2019-11-25T19:07:04 < karlp> I mean, using expect was never goign to be a good day, but wow
2019-11-25T19:07:04 < srk> PID is not that good when it responds this slow
2019-11-25T19:07:23 < srk> it works but not that well for whole range
2019-11-25T19:07:48 < bitmask> i'll look at a couple open source implementations then
2019-11-25T19:08:13 < bitmask> ahh gotta go
2019-11-25T19:08:15 < srk> I've tried proportional on measure but switched back to PID + changing tune over time
2019-11-25T19:08:16 < bitmask> be back later
2019-11-25T19:08:21 < srk> o/
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2019-11-25T19:18:29 < Thorn> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9c8k-g2mn9w
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2019-11-25T19:28:15 < kakipr0> what does dns probe bad config mean excactly?
2019-11-25T19:28:20 < kakipr0> exactly
2019-11-25T19:28:31 < kakipr0> or nxdomain
2019-11-25T19:30:58 < aandrew> I've got a controleo3 or whatever. just need to do the electrical hookup, it's all ultrainsulated and sealed, just need to do the actual SSR hookup etc
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2019-11-25T19:35:10 <@englishman> cool
2019-11-25T19:35:22 <@englishman> my v2 has been working gr8 for years
2019-11-25T19:36:24 < srk> my controller is just a ad-hoc milled board for f4 disco, hx711 breakout and two max7219 displays, might make a standalone version out of it with UX so it doesn't require CAN :D
2019-11-25T19:38:27 < srk> its probably the only canopen reflow controller out there tho :D
2019-11-25T19:39:45 < PaulFertser> How do you like canopen so far srk?
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2019-11-25T19:41:48 < srk> well it's pretty cool, if I had to desing such protocol from scratch it would take tons of iterations to get to something similar
2019-11-25T19:42:41 < srk> also quite flexible and easy to work with my weirdo stack
2019-11-25T19:43:36 < PaulFertser> I had an impression the protocol is kinda over-engineered and not fully consistent. And also that the official specification documents are confusing as hell.
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2019-11-25T19:44:19 < srk> yeah, it takes time to make sense of all the PDF files but once you know where to look it's not that complicated
2019-11-25T19:46:36 < srk> wouldn't say it's over-engineered, it is able to accommodate a lot of use cases but you can only implement a small subset of it
2019-11-25T19:47:28 < srk> I've realized number of times during the implementation 'ah smart, I wouldn't thought of this if I did this from scratch'
2019-11-25T19:48:52 < PaulFertser> Indeed. But it seems like certain usecases are solved in few different ways as if they're not able to choose what's best and decided to add all of the possible solutions.
2019-11-25T19:50:12 < srk> I don't have PDOs yet as I've started to implement them with dynamic configuration, then realized most of the devices use just few predefined and doesn't allow any configuration
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2019-11-25T19:51:12 < srk> I only use SDOs and heartbeat fow now + NMT for node configuration
2019-11-25T19:52:15 < srk> if you look at it as just a remote register access its pretty easy
2019-11-25T19:52:26 < srk> rest of the services are just features anyway :)
2019-11-25T19:52:49 < PaulFertser> Well, yes, once you know how to look :)
2019-11-25T19:53:25 < srk> hehe, yeah
2019-11-25T19:54:01 < srk> once the complexity is abstracted it's quite easy to work with .. reflowreg code - https://gist.github.com/sorki/9c82b32635e4757050d7d4d50a965bf0
2019-11-25T19:57:02 < srk> once you import the generated data types you only use attrHandler to handle state updates from master and attrEmitter to update internal state so master can read it via SDOs
2019-11-25T19:58:19 < srk> on top is the DSL to describe the dictionary (remote registers) it uses
2019-11-25T19:59:18 < PaulFertser> srk: cool stuff!
2019-11-25T19:59:41 < PaulFertser> srk: btw, does the CAN timing calculation honours length of the bus?
2019-11-25T19:59:58 < srk> I don't think so
2019-11-25T20:00:28 < srk> not sure if it's actually needed but I'm only running on 1Mbit 
2019-11-25T20:00:52 < aandrew> hx711? you're using a wheatstone bridge for rtd measurements?
2019-11-25T20:01:30 < srk> yeah, some simple circuit with const current source I found on the internetz, was looking for something I could build quickly
2019-11-25T20:01:48 < PaulFertser> srk: hm, so you do hack the I term of the PID!
2019-11-25T20:01:48 < srk> woud use some IC for RTD now
2019-11-25T20:02:08 < PaulFertser> srk: it was actually needed for 5km line :)
2019-11-25T20:02:13 < srk> a bit :)
2019-11-25T20:02:42 < srk> http://www.bittiming.can-wiki.info/
2019-11-25T20:03:03 < srk> 5km heh :))
2019-11-25T20:03:15 < srk> you did something like that?
2019-11-25T20:04:37 < PaulFertser> srk: yes, iirc it was using 10k and worked just fine for months after proper timing calculations were made.
2019-11-25T20:05:50 < PaulFertser> srk: so not only you forcibily nullify I if it's pointing the wrong way but you also add a hard limit to it. I'd say that's plenty of ad-hoc hackery. I wonder why is that the regular unhacked PID seems to be not working even for basic tasks like that.
2019-11-25T20:06:25 < srk> because the system is too slow to respond to input, it's like 2nd order system
2019-11-25T20:06:40 < srk> on a plot it takes 30 seconds to register change when power is applied
2019-11-25T20:07:11 < srk> if you use IR/xenon lamps instead of toaster oven it would work better :)
2019-11-25T20:07:19 < srk> or multiple RTDs
2019-11-25T20:07:24 < PaulFertser> And you never allow it to go negative
2019-11-25T20:08:27 < srk> yeah, I wonder why :) there's even a commented line 
2019-11-25T20:08:31 < srk> "simple" PID :D
2019-11-25T20:08:43 < srk> until it gets complicated!
2019-11-25T20:09:02 < PaulFertser> I wished I was writing firmware like this. Really cool srk. Too bad nobody at my jobplace but me liked Haskell :/
2019-11-25T20:09:36 < Steffann> it is scary a bit the first time you see it :P
2019-11-25T20:09:49 < Steffann> for people like me it keeps being scary
2019-11-25T20:10:35 < srk> yeah but you can get used to it and once you realize how well it works for complex systems where you need safe concurrency there's no way back
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2019-11-25T20:44:07 < aandrew> 5km CAN, nice. what was the application?
2019-11-25T20:45:10 < aandrew> I feel like I'm getting too long in the tooth to change to something like haskell. hell, I find myself writing the odd litlte CGI in C still
2019-11-25T20:45:21 < Steffann> CGI lol
2019-11-25T20:45:24 < Steffann> Youre ooold
2019-11-25T20:45:28 < aandrew> only becuase it's faster for me to screw around with string manipulation in C than it is to try to do it in a proper language
2019-11-25T20:45:56 < srk> strings are not ideal in haskell nor in ivory
2019-11-25T20:46:45 < Steffann> learn to php aandrew :P
2019-11-25T20:46:55 <@englishman> fuck mfgs that don't put pin numbers/names in datasheets
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2019-11-25T20:47:18 <@englishman> my Go pal switched to haskell
2019-11-25T20:47:34 < srk> in haskell people find it quite confusing that there are number of string types (String, Text, ByteString) and you need to covert. Text and ByteString also have Strict and Lazy variants according to evaluation
2019-11-25T20:47:53 < srk> lazy variants are only eveluated when needed
2019-11-25T20:47:57 < srk> englishman: go is boring 
2019-11-25T20:48:11 < aandrew> englishman: my frustration is with datasheets like nordic and stm where they have on page x the base addresses of all the peripherals and then on page 257+x the register offsets and then 263+x the bit defs
2019-11-25T20:48:13 < srk> you end up generating go to do polymorphism :D
2019-11-25T20:48:26 < aandrew> fuck man put it in the same fucking place, repeating the info (offset and base) becuase that's what is easier ofr the user
2019-11-25T20:48:47 < aandrew> srk: sounds like VHDL and things like integer and unsigned and std_logic_vector
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2019-11-25T20:49:18 < srk> ivory string is funny as it's just a struct with (type-level bounded) array and its length
2019-11-25T20:49:23 < aandrew> TI's worse though.. there is no unified datasheet, you need to download 75 PDFs for each component and then a 76th to know where the fucking memory locations are
2019-11-25T20:49:38 < aandrew> I mean 25 years ago in the land of 2400 baud modems this makes sense
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2019-11-25T20:55:57 < bitmask> toaster oven hath arrived
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2019-11-25T21:00:03 < PaulFertser> aandrew: small nodes that measure voltages at certain points of long oil/gas pipes to aid https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cathodic_protection
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2019-11-25T21:47:35 < qyx> speaking of CAN
2019-11-25T21:47:48 < qyx> I have found some appnotes describing AC-coupled RS485
2019-11-25T21:47:57 < qyx> I am curious if the same could be done with CAN
2019-11-25T21:48:17 < qyx> (to allow ground potential difference/high CM voltage)
2019-11-25T21:49:29 < fenugrec> aandrew, come on, if they were to duplicate the reg assigments, it's guaranteed they won't match
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2019-11-25T21:53:13 < aandrew> fenugrec: if they wrote the docs with MS Word, maybe
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2019-11-25T21:55:39 < fenugrec> you know they'd find a way to mess up autogeneration, hehe
2019-11-25T21:56:03 < fenugrec> but yeah, TI docs... I've just spent 10 minutes looking for a doc that doesn't exist anymore, anywhere. wtf
2019-11-25T21:57:17 < fenugrec> except on pudn.com ,of all places
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2019-11-25T21:58:04 < aandrew> oh and the best thing about TI docs, they're all SUQNP.pdf, MQING.pdf, ZQPOL.pdf -- useless fucking names
2019-11-25T21:58:11 < aandrew> ST is pretty bad too with DM39415071387105104710810347310.pdf
2019-11-25T22:02:00 < specing> yeah
2019-11-25T22:02:10 < specing> I get my ST docs from octopart or LCSL
2019-11-25T22:04:25 < Steffann> -_-
2019-11-25T22:04:46 < Steffann> lcsc that is?
2019-11-25T22:06:12 -!- Steffann is now known as Steffanx
2019-11-25T22:07:07 < specing> yes
2019-11-25T22:31:02 -!- renn0xtk9 [~max@2a02:810d:1540:8ba:6569:2fff:5d44:bd55] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds]
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2019-11-25T22:39:45 < aandrew> Steffanx: no, LCSL is the new site that only pros get access to
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2019-11-25T22:51:03 < steve> srk : neat! I've been curious about compile-to-C, hadn't found any evidence of it
2019-11-25T22:55:15 < qyx> what is tachyum, 64core 4GHz
2019-11-25T22:55:26 < qyx> https://www.extremetech.com/computing/294927-tachyum-raises-25m-for-universal-processor-faster-than-xeon-smaller-than-arm
2019-11-25T22:55:29 < qyx> uh
2019-11-25T22:55:32 < Mangy_Dog> a computerised wet dream?
2019-11-25T22:55:58 < Steffanx> thats not what i dream of ..
2019-11-25T22:56:16 < Mangy_Dog> "you like big caps you can not lie"
2019-11-25T22:56:27 < Mangy_Dog> resistors dont do it fur you
2019-11-25T22:56:30 < Mangy_Dog> or
2019-11-25T22:56:31 < Mangy_Dog> :D
2019-11-25T22:56:33 < Mangy_Dog> or
2019-11-25T22:56:35 < Mangy_Dog> for
2019-11-25T22:56:56 < Mangy_Dog> no logic gates are worth your while, you want that electro elicit fantasy
2019-11-25T22:57:07 < Mangy_Dog> that only a big cap can provide
2019-11-25T22:57:35 < Steffanx> hm, idk sir
2019-11-25T22:57:57 < Mangy_Dog> youre an inductor man?
2019-11-25T23:02:14 < Cracki> >tachyum
2019-11-25T23:02:23 < Cracki> it's vapor isn't it
2019-11-25T23:02:50 -!- catphish [~catphish@unaffiliated/catphish] has joined ##stm32
2019-11-25T23:03:01 < Cracki> > It can be used to simulate human brain-sized neural networks in real time
2019-11-25T23:03:04 < Cracki> BULLSHIT
2019-11-25T23:03:45 < Cracki> there isn't even enough ram for that
2019-11-25T23:03:50 < Cracki> the math doesn't add up!
2019-11-25T23:05:32 < Cracki> >8 people per square meter
2019-11-25T23:05:41 < Cracki> >no mass stampede
2019-11-25T23:08:09 < catphish> morning
2019-11-25T23:08:34 < qyx> Cracki: idk what is it
2019-11-25T23:08:40 < qyx> never heard of them
2019-11-25T23:08:44 < Cracki> same
2019-11-25T23:08:49 < Cracki> obvious scam
2019-11-25T23:08:55 < qyx> a job offer came this morning
2019-11-25T23:09:02 < Cracki> from them? take it!
2019-11-25T23:09:07 < Cracki> rake in the venturebucks
2019-11-25T23:09:38 < Cracki> do it like wework, scam a dumb foreign investor
2019-11-25T23:09:42 < qyx> the head person seems to be legit though
2019-11-25T23:09:56 < Cracki> they get paid to be figureheads
2019-11-25T23:10:15 < qyx> are they musk'd?
2019-11-25T23:10:44 < qyx> they should have paid elon to be their head
2019-11-25T23:11:41 < Cracki> head person legit because of the Dr. title?
2019-11-25T23:13:18 < Steffanx> I like you optimism Cracki :)
2019-11-25T23:13:27 < Cracki> they probably scammed some public funding committee with that "exascale" claim
2019-11-25T23:14:20 < Cracki> https://www.theregister.co.uk/2018/07/27/tachyums_prodigy_cpu/
2019-11-25T23:16:34 < qyx> so 2019 is coming to the end
2019-11-25T23:16:40 < qyx> I am awaiting the cpu first
2019-11-25T23:17:55 < Cracki> aaand they're selling to the chinese: https://www.businesswire.com/news/home/20191120005133/en/Tachyum-Shares-Processor-Valuable-Chinese-Market
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2019-11-25T23:23:19 < Cracki> they claim 512 flops of f16 per cycle per core...
2019-11-25T23:27:14 < Cracki> what if it's a riscv with vector instructions that wide
2019-11-25T23:43:08 < catphish> anyone know scsi? i have a question: when a host requests to read n blocks of data, does the device have any option to return less? or is it obliged to work until all the data is sent?
2019-11-25T23:47:05 < Cracki> is the whole read request legit, or does your device have a good excuse to fail?
2019-11-25T23:47:35 < Cracki> WP> The block size on sequential access devices can either be fixed or variable, depending on the specific device. Tape devices such as half-inch 9-track tape, DDS (4 mm tapes physically similar to DAT), Exabyte, etc., support variable block sizes.
2019-11-25T23:47:38 < catphish> the request is legit, as far as i can see the only legit request to fail is because the end of the disk has been overrun
2019-11-25T23:47:48 < Cracki> would imply to me that the response has _some_ variability
2019-11-25T23:48:32 < Cracki> quote valid for tape devices
2019-11-25T23:49:14 < catphish> my drive has tracks of 11 sectors, linux likes to request 8 sectors at a time
2019-11-25T23:49:26 < Cracki> ic
2019-11-25T23:49:54 < Cracki> any way to tell/make it read fewer?
2019-11-25T23:49:54 < catphish> this means that ideally i'd like to return 8 sectors, then when it requests the next 8, i'd like to say "here's 3 i have in RAM, come back when you want more"
2019-11-25T23:49:58 < Cracki> or read 11 at a time
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2019-11-25T23:50:29 < catphish> i'm not sure, that would be ideal, but i think scsi has surprisingly little concept of tracks
2019-11-25T23:50:34 < catphish> just a large array of blocks
2019-11-25T23:52:07 < Cracki> can you read sectors of the next track too and fulfill the whole request?
2019-11-25T23:52:14 < catphish> i'm also kinda confused why linux requests 8 blocks on some devices, but 1,7,1,7 on mine
2019-11-25T23:52:26 < catphish> Cracki: yes i can, and i will if i have to :)
2019-11-25T23:52:35 < Cracki> this has some details, not sure how useful https://www.seagate.com/files/staticfiles/support/docs/manual/Interface%20manuals/100293068k.pdf
2019-11-25T23:53:03 < catphish> yeah, that's the manual i'm mostly working from :)
2019-11-25T23:53:17 < catphish> READ(10) is the command
2019-11-25T23:54:40 < catphish> "The TRANSFER LENGTH field is constrained by the MAXIMUM TRANSFER LENGTH field in the Block Limits VPD page."
2019-11-25T23:55:23 < catphish> there we go, i can send some information to tell the host how much it's allowed to read at once, that doesn't really help though unless i constrain it to "1 block"
2019-11-25T23:55:47 < catphish> it'll be fine i'm sure :)
2019-11-25T23:56:07 < effractur> send a Illegal Request - system buffer full error?
2019-11-25T23:57:03 < catphish> it's not clear if one can partially serve the request then return an error
2019-11-25T23:57:46 < catphish> it would be much better if i could just set the block size to a whole track (11 * 512) but apparantly that's invalid, linux won't allow more than a 4k block
2019-11-25T23:58:05 < effractur> afaik you have to complete a request or indicat an error
2019-11-25T23:58:07 < effractur> partial is not possible
2019-11-25T23:58:32 < catphish> effractur: thanks, i'll just cope with it, and do physical reads mid-scsi-request
2019-11-25T23:58:47 < catphish> it's probably not a problem, and presumably this is how it was intended to work
--- Day changed Tue Nov 26 2019
2019-11-26T00:00:28 < Cracki> even if you could serve a partial response, the next request would come quickly, and then you still have to do a read
2019-11-26T00:01:16 < catphish> yeah, that much is certainly true, it's more just about structuring the code, it would be nice if one scsi request meant one physical read, return data, return
2019-11-26T00:03:09 < Cracki> queue requests, work on fulfilling topmost, respond when that's so, fail if timeout?
2019-11-26T00:04:22 < catphish> i don't think i need anything so complex
2019-11-26T00:04:39 < catphish> i can just satisfy the current request by whatever means are necessary, then move onto the next
2019-11-26T00:05:23 < catphish> most likely that means 1) serve some blocks from memory of previous physical read 2) do a physical read of the next track 3) serve remaining blocks from new memory
2019-11-26T00:06:48 < Cracki> any chance the host would request more than one track at once?
2019-11-26T00:06:51 < fenugrec> plot twist : tachyum compiler can only run on tachium cpu
2019-11-26T00:06:59 < Cracki> sounds like you need buffer for about two tracks worth of data
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2019-11-26T00:11:03 < catphish> Cracki: i guess in theory it can request as much as it wants, it could request the whole disk at once, but nothing a loop can't deal with
2019-11-26T00:11:21 < Cracki> good point
2019-11-26T00:11:24 < catphish> was just hoping to simplify the code by stopping at the end of what was already buffered
2019-11-26T00:11:38 < Cracki> except those read calls have bit-limited length fields
2019-11-26T00:12:33 < catphish> i think it's 32 bits (of 512 byte blocks)
2019-11-26T00:13:03 < catphish> so 2TB :)
2019-11-26T00:13:17 < catphish> which may be more than my floopy drive can handle
2019-11-26T00:14:12 < Cracki> make a tape drive
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2019-11-26T00:25:22 < catphish> i just did a dd of my disk, linux reads it with the following combination of requests (for 512 byte blocks) 32+64+128+240+16+240+16+240+16+240+16+240+16+240+8+8+8+8
2019-11-26T00:25:54 < catphish> actually... 32+64+128+240+16+240+16+240+16+240+16+240+16+240+8+1+1+1+1+1+1+1+1+8+8
2019-11-26T00:26:02 < catphish> no idea what it's smoking
2019-11-26T00:26:17 < catphish> but i guess it's valid, so i'll just return what it asks for
2019-11-26T00:27:19 < catphish> i guess it lines up with whatever cache memory linux wants to fill
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2019-11-26T00:30:15 < Cracki> cybertruck hotbox
2019-11-26T00:30:46 < kakipr0> dope
2019-11-26T00:33:20 -!- sterna [~Adium@c-81e2e253.016-35-62726f1.bbcust.telenor.se] has quit [Quit: Leaving.]
2019-11-26T00:37:24 < Cracki> oh crap cybertruck has an ATV companion
2019-11-26T00:37:31 < Cracki> I had no idea
2019-11-26T00:39:32 < kakipr0> not included ofc
2019-11-26T00:40:23 < Cracki> some article said the biggest surprise is the price. they must have figured out immense production savings somehow.
2019-11-26T00:40:38 < kakipr0> model 3
2019-11-26T00:40:54 < kakipr0> also stainless steel
2019-11-26T00:41:20 < kakipr0> it would make manuf quite straight forward
2019-11-26T00:41:31 < Cracki> from some murican I watch on yt I learned that many cars aren't stainless in any way. they rust like nothing.
2019-11-26T00:41:31 < catphish> interestingly with O_DIRECT linux always makes single-block requests
2019-11-26T00:41:40 < Cracki> O
2019-11-26T00:41:58 < kakipr0> cars aren't made of stainless steel since delorean
2019-11-26T00:42:13 < catphish> they're made of space-steel now :)
2019-11-26T00:42:26 < kakipr0> it's just stainless
2019-11-26T00:42:27 < Cracki> car makers lobby for using salt in winter
2019-11-26T00:42:55 < kakipr0> murican roads are kept free of snow with applying various amounts of salt
2019-11-26T00:43:49 < kakipr0> also they don't galvanize their cars
2019-11-26T00:45:44 < doomba> gotta keep the economy going
2019-11-26T00:45:55 < kakipr0> yes
2019-11-26T00:45:58 < Cracki> thorium gang puts fluoride in your salt
2019-11-26T00:58:34  * qyx @ Philter - Untitled
2019-11-26T00:58:36 < qyx> kaki musics
2019-11-26T01:01:56 < bitmask> https://imgur.com/a/a5CdlB1
2019-11-26T01:03:12 < aandrew> yay my RF order came in
2019-11-26T01:03:39 < aandrew> some 0/10/20/30dB attenuators, a couple programmable PADs, two 0.1-3GHz bridges and a noise source
2019-11-26T01:04:26 < qyx> minicircuits?
2019-11-26T01:04:43 < aandrew> now i gotta do some measurements to see just how cheap this stuff is, I think the total came to $77 including expedited shipping
2019-11-26T01:04:48 < aandrew> qyx: no, just banggood shit
2019-11-26T01:08:57 -!- kakipr0 [b05d6d09@176-93-109-9.bb.dnainternet.fi] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
2019-11-26T01:08:59 < Steffanx> No yt link qyx?
2019-11-26T01:10:12 < qyx> no :(
2019-11-26T01:14:27 -!- kakipr0 [b05d6d09@176-93-109-9.bb.dnainternet.fi] has joined ##stm32
2019-11-26T01:18:07 < Ultrasauce> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kLUthOxfpMo additional musicspam
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2019-11-26T01:29:45 < qyx> kicad pros, how to do a pcb template?
2019-11-26T01:30:02 < qyx> it would be great to do it as a footprint
2019-11-26T01:30:14 < qyx> but footprint editor doesn't allow me to use edge.cuts layer
2019-11-26T01:35:22 < Spirit532> pcb template?
2019-11-26T01:37:42 < qyx> yes, a predefined shape
2019-11-26T01:37:46 < qyx> eg. with a connector
2019-11-26T01:39:41 < Spirit532> try making NPTH holes
2019-11-26T01:40:05 < qyx> wat
2019-11-26T01:40:23 < Spirit532> build your footprint out of rectangular holes
2019-11-26T01:40:36 < Spirit532> but remember that inner 90deg corners are impossible to mill
2019-11-26T01:41:29 < qyx> I am not going to do the board output using rectangular holes
2019-11-26T01:41:38 < qyx> s/output/outline
2019-11-26T01:41:52 < Spirit532> I don't get what you mean by pcb template
2019-11-26T01:41:58 < Spirit532> do you want to make multiple PCBs on one panel?
2019-11-26T01:42:15 < Spirit532> do you want a solderable PCB?
2019-11-26T01:44:30 < qyx> https://i.imgur.com/Lghx0ik.png
2019-11-26T01:44:35 < qyx> I want this to be a footprint
2019-11-26T01:44:40 < qyx> or something other
2019-11-26T01:45:01 < qyx> to be able to simply select it from a list and put it into pcbnew
2019-11-26T01:45:30 < qyx> to use it as a base for a new design
2019-11-26T01:45:42 < Spirit532> that's not going to happen
2019-11-26T01:46:11 < Spirit532> well, sort of
2019-11-26T01:46:18 < Spirit532> you can turn that into a part, but you won't get edge.cuts
2019-11-26T01:46:26 < Spirit532> because a footprint can't define your PCB's cutouts
2019-11-26T01:46:26 < qyx> yes, I said that
2019-11-26T01:46:54 < Spirit532> this is also something you put on a panel, so you'd want it controlled anyway
2019-11-26T01:46:56 < Spirit532> not as a footprint
2019-11-26T01:59:57 < kakipr0> what type of precision is required for usb diff pair?
2019-11-26T02:00:29 < kakipr0> okay this is not a quiz
2019-11-26T02:00:55 < kakipr0> I'm more looking for diff pair parameters and tolerances
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2019-11-26T02:05:07 -!- dolanbatar [hexo@base48.cz] has quit [Excess Flood]
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2019-11-26T02:15:07 < kakipr0> https://drive.google.com/file/d/15mS3ikIv_tXaLI2QS1_3kMn5mt-ocvSB/view?usp=sharing
2019-11-26T02:20:38 < kakipr0> size of 2 local buck regulators for eth phy and magnetics is smaller than circuit to manipulate leds of ethjack
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2019-11-26T02:34:39 < dongs> what the fuck is that weird ass cutout
2019-11-26T02:34:54 < dongs> or is that just kikecad being kikecad
2019-11-26T02:38:27 -!- learningc [~pi@121.122.85.48] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds]
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2019-11-26T02:43:08 < kakipr0> no
2019-11-26T02:43:16 < kakipr0> it kaki innovation
2019-11-26T02:43:54 < kakipr0> the board wasn't ugli enough
2019-11-26T02:44:08 < kakipr0> so I made that for rj45 locking pin
2019-11-26T02:44:20 < kakipr0> it has opening for prying tool
2019-11-26T02:44:32 < kakipr0> screw driver etc
2019-11-26T02:44:35 < aandrew> kakinnovation
2019-11-26T02:45:20 < aandrew> how much money have you budgeted for repairs due to people busting shit by ramming shit inot that slot trying to get the locking pin to let go?
2019-11-26T02:45:53 < aandrew> when I worked in industrial power I'd specified Phoenix terminal blocks *specifically* for "gorilla screwdriver" problems
2019-11-26T02:46:17 < aandrew> actual genuine Phoenix won't shit themselves when overtorqued, the thread "skips" to relieve pressure
2019-11-26T02:46:24 < aandrew> cheapshit will strip
2019-11-26T02:46:27 < dongs> wait waht the actual fuck
2019-11-26T02:46:31 < dongs> is that an ethernet jack facing INTO board
2019-11-26T02:47:07 < dongs> what the fuck is kikemir innovating
2019-11-26T02:47:11 < dongs> it gets uglier with each new pic
2019-11-26T02:47:23 < aandrew> also had all the "main" connections terminate to one of those oldschool terminal strips because they were cheap to replace when someone took their three foot blade screwdriver and snapped it by torquing it like it was the jesus nut on a helicopter
2019-11-26T02:50:22 < qyx> lold irl
2019-11-26T02:51:07 < h4x0riz3d> i heard it's kicad show tiem
2019-11-26T02:51:23 < kakipr0> show your kicad
2019-11-26T02:51:28 < qyx> I have nothng new to show
2019-11-26T02:51:35 < h4x0riz3d> https://i.imgur.com/CCxb4he.png
2019-11-26T02:51:49 < aandrew> dongs: I had a design where the RJ45 was pointed inward and on a 45o angle
2019-11-26T02:52:02  * h4x0riz3d hides behind the couch
2019-11-26T02:52:04 < aandrew> but it was for a cat7 cable to take a sensitive video signal to another board
2019-11-26T02:52:06 < doomba> analog sound thing?
2019-11-26T02:54:34 < h4x0riz3d> hm, wrong pic.. https://i.imgur.com/6jIU9cd.png
2019-11-26T02:55:10 < dongs> is that some midi innoation
2019-11-26T02:55:37 < doomba> yea looks like a synth
2019-11-26T02:56:58 < kakipr0> how do you get that GF grain pattern?
2019-11-26T02:58:07 < h4x0riz3d> from my local dealer
2019-11-26T02:58:16 < h4x0riz3d> shh, don't tell teh cops
2019-11-26T03:00:37 < kakipr0> so airy design
2019-11-26T03:01:12 < kakipr0> you can do most anything on that free area
2019-11-26T03:01:46 < h4x0riz3d> not so fast there cowboi
2019-11-26T03:02:39 < h4x0riz3d> the individual shizzles aren't yet connected together, still gotta move sh*t around
2019-11-26T03:03:03 < h4x0riz3d> PSU sh*t should probably go above the pots, or on the right side below the barrel jack
2019-11-26T03:03:51 < kakipr0> yet another 150khz regulator
2019-11-26T03:03:52 < h4x0riz3d> the wandering opamps shall get into tactical formation
2019-11-26T03:04:14 < dongs> gotta add some DIP8 sockets for those opamps
2019-11-26T03:04:21 < dongs> or else the highs wont bte the same
2019-11-26T03:04:36 < h4x0riz3d> the four trimpots gonna need a better place to sit
2019-11-26T03:05:26 < h4x0riz3d> and a pile of sh*t is missing still
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2019-11-26T03:19:09 < dongs> yall think if I read AN3606 or wahtever and figure out the bl jump address on F042, i can jump to it and have it boot into USB DFU?
2019-11-26T03:23:01 < kakinull> there was just a month ago talks about jumping to bootloader
2019-11-26T03:24:15 < dongs> ya prolly
2019-11-26T03:25:38 < kakinull> some detailed blog post how to do it
2019-11-26T03:27:54 < fenugrec> does anyone use state machine code generators ? or just handroll everything ?
2019-11-26T03:30:52 < fenugrec> dongs, https://github.com/devanlai/dap42/blob/master/src/stm32f042/DFU/DFU.c
2019-11-26T03:31:31 < kakinull> I made diff pair conductor dimensions accidentally correct for the impendance
2019-11-26T03:31:46 < kakinull> I pulled those numbers from my ass
2019-11-26T03:32:10 < kakinull> first kicad it and then calculate
2019-11-26T03:32:23 < kakinull> that is how I roll
2019-11-26T03:49:46 < aandrew> dongs: this is more or less exactly what I did
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2019-11-26T03:59:47 < Cracki> fenugrec, I keep looking at simulink for specification and generation but haven't done anything real yet
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2019-11-26T04:00:52 < Cracki> one of the jobs would really benefit from a clean graphical state machine spec (and correct code generation)... especially when the customer has change requests, i can just point to the graphical representation and they understand it
2019-11-26T04:01:30 < Cracki> I took a simulink file apart once. iirc it's xml and reasonably obvious.
2019-11-26T04:02:24 < Cracki> because boss doesn't like the thought of buying simulink for this side project, I was looking into keeping the simulink files as specs and doing my own code gen from that
2019-11-26T04:03:07 < Cracki> moore and mealy are two formalisms for such state machines. matlab/simulink talks about those.
2019-11-26T04:04:22 < fenugrec> Cracki, interesting idea. there are of course dedicated state-machine editors/generators, QM (UML statecharts), some others with custom syntax to specify the FSM
2019-11-26T04:04:23 < Cracki> this stuff lends itself to model checking, i.e. "can this (error) state ever be reached and how" or "will it always return to this state, or can it livelock/deadlock somehow
2019-11-26T04:04:49 < Cracki> aye, my theoretical CS prof has a lecture on UML. it's basically sequence charts.
2019-11-26T04:05:14 < Cracki> I _very_ briefly looked into tools to display and edit any kind of "state machine"
2019-11-26T04:05:30 < Cracki> I'm still wary of UML because of its enterprisey whiff
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2019-11-26T04:08:00 < dongs> JewML
2019-11-26T04:08:27 < Cracki> the numbers
2019-11-26T04:09:22 < fenugrec> yea, same with QM aka state-machine.com
2019-11-26T04:10:56 < Cracki> this... fellow... supposedly came up with statecharts https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/David_Harel
2019-11-26T04:11:05 < fenugrec> found this, too http://smc.sourceforge.net/
2019-11-26T04:11:33 < Cracki> >language
2019-11-26T04:11:42 < Cracki> shit's useless unless you have a graphical rep
2019-11-26T04:11:49 < Cracki> that is visual
2019-11-26T04:12:13 < Cracki> the worst sin is expressing visual things in text
2019-11-26T04:13:15 < fenugrec> visual shit is not versionable
2019-11-26T04:13:37 < Cracki> the text data underlying it is
2019-11-26T04:13:42 < Cracki> the point is you need a visualization
2019-11-26T04:14:08 < fenugrec> I believe smc produces graphical output, but yeah you can only edit the text representation
2019-11-26T04:14:22 < Cracki> anyone who argues against that is a basement dwelling neckbeard who's been irradiated by his green on black CRT
2019-11-26T04:14:29 < Cracki> graphical output, hah useless
2019-11-26T04:14:33 < Cracki> the point is interaction
2019-11-26T04:16:39 < dongs> mm this slave i2c thing turned out nicely
2019-11-26T04:17:04 < Cracki> wikipedia is funny. they act like that dude invented the idea of state machines. they completely omit any previous work he extended upon.
2019-11-26T04:23:36 < bitmask> holy crap, I just came across a goto in someones code, never thought id see that
2019-11-26T04:23:44 < aandrew> I generally just write them myself. adding another thing in the way just seems a recipe for disaster
2019-11-26T04:24:26 < aandrew> yeah and this is just C macro bullshit
2019-11-26T04:24:38 < aandrew> why not write in GTK while you're at it
2019-11-26T04:27:47 < Cracki> gotos are a nice and obvious way to clean up inside a function
2019-11-26T04:27:58 < aandrew> yep nothing wrong with a well placed goto
2019-11-26T04:28:20 < Cracki> gotos are like acid. don't throw it into random people's faces.
2019-11-26T04:28:21 < aandrew> it's one of those things that their use is discouraged except when you're experienced because by then, you know when it's best ot use
2019-11-26T04:28:29 < kakinull> C macros are the bestest
2019-11-26T04:28:36 < Cracki> quiche eaters consider goto harmful
2019-11-26T04:28:44 < aandrew> I liked the /. tagline: XML is like violence; if it's not working, apply more.
2019-11-26T04:29:16 < Cracki> europeans have lost their sense of violence
2019-11-26T04:29:19 < aandrew> kakinull: https://www.mixdown.ca/redmine/projects/mixdown/wiki/Macro_Abuse_in_C
2019-11-26T04:29:33 < Cracki> when they find it again, they have no idea how to wield it responsibly. it's gonna be a disaster.
2019-11-26T04:30:21 < fenugrec> oh geez, the turing-complete C preprocessor thing
2019-11-26T04:30:48 < Cracki> I know a few "programmers" who need a strong guiding hand that says "don't do {this}" etc because they're too immature to even pretend to have judgment
2019-11-26T04:31:06 < Cracki> rejoice! it's not entirely turing complete
2019-11-26T04:31:09 < Cracki> recursion has limits
2019-11-26T04:31:27 < Cracki> the more levels you want, the more lines of code you have to write
2019-11-26T04:31:39 < Cracki> afaik there's no way to make an infinite loop
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2019-11-26T04:53:55 < deltab> the article on state diagrams says they were introduced by Shannon and Weaver, and mentions Booth; Harel doesn't appear until the section on Harel statecharts
2019-11-26T04:59:58 < Cracki> right
2019-11-26T05:00:08 < Cracki> that's that article
2019-11-26T05:04:51 <@englishman> fenugrec: how many cybertrucks did you order
2019-11-26T05:05:54 < fenugrec> the order page said they were 150$, so I'm starting with 4. you?
2019-11-26T05:07:32 <@englishman> nice
2019-11-26T05:08:20 <@englishman> going to be a nice little winter grocery getter
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2019-11-26T05:10:51 < fenugrec> I'm curious what endurance it'll get with the so-called 10000lbs towing capacity
2019-11-26T05:11:20 < fenugrec> although I'd love to see a 0-100kmh in 2.9sec with a 10klbs trailer
2019-11-26T05:26:57 < Spirit532> So turns out, STSPIN chips have zero protection inside their gate drivers
2019-11-26T05:27:01 < Spirit532> Guess how I found that out
2019-11-26T05:27:20 < Spirit532> (don't short any of the fet-connected pins to ground or voltage supply if you want your chips to live)
2019-11-26T05:33:39 < Cracki> nice
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2019-11-26T05:49:31 < fenugrec> that's not as bad as the "short circuit protected" ssp6206 regulators that die isntantly on a short circuit
2019-11-26T05:54:32 < Cracki> >protection
2019-11-26T05:54:34 < Cracki> >condom rips
2019-11-26T05:54:56 < Cracki> wait, >condom eats your wiener
2019-11-26T05:55:59 < dongs> aandrew: why does it do that cfgr1 thing
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2019-11-26T06:06:32 < dongs> huh why do they actually physically set GPIO pin before jumping
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2019-11-26T06:17:20 < dongs> hmm
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2019-11-26T06:34:54 < dongs> welp, its not working
2019-11-26T06:35:13 < dongs> not very surprising
2019-11-26T06:38:18 < dongs> https://community.st.com/s/question/0D50X00009Xkg1VSAR/jump-to-usb-dfu-bootloader-in-startup-code-on-stm32f042 hmm this clives code is actually broken
2019-11-26T06:38:21 < dongs> wtf
2019-11-26T06:38:31 < dongs> MOVS R1, #0 ; ADDRESS OF ZERO
2019-11-26T06:38:31 < dongs> LDR R0, [R1, #0] ; SP @ +0
2019-11-26T06:38:31 < dongs> MOV SP, R0
2019-11-26T06:38:31 < dongs> LDR R0, [R1, #4] ; PC @ +4
2019-11-26T06:38:38 < dongs> this is completely fucked up, it ends up wiht random numbers in R1/R0
2019-11-26T06:41:06 < dongs> wtf it wasnt so hard on F1
2019-11-26T06:43:30 < aandrew> englishman: wtf do you need a pickup to get groceries
2019-11-26T06:43:43 < aandrew> Spirit532: how much magic smoke did you release?
2019-11-26T06:43:57 < Spirit532> none, actually
2019-11-26T06:44:08 < aandrew> you failed at failing
2019-11-26T06:44:13 < Spirit532> I just accidently shorted it to some pin
2019-11-26T06:44:21 < Spirit532> the 3.3 line blinked the attached LED
2019-11-26T06:44:23 < Spirit532> and the chip went silent
2019-11-26T06:44:25 < dongs> wtf aandrew how are you jumping to BL on F0
2019-11-26T06:44:26 < Spirit532> blip
2019-11-26T06:44:28 < dongs> shit isnt working at all
2019-11-26T06:44:37 < dongs> i did write to deadbeef and variations of jumping to address but it all failz
2019-11-26T06:44:59 < aandrew> dongs: I haven't got an F0 handy here in hongcouver 
2019-11-26T06:45:28 < aandrew> dongs: IIRC you must make sure you set up the initial processor state the same as out of reset because the ROMBL is so fucking fail that it can't handle anything else
2019-11-26T06:45:50 < dongs> i did that arlready, im jumping there right after reset
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2019-11-26T06:46:01 < aandrew> hm
2019-11-26T06:46:30 < aandrew> I absolutely did do this. I don't think I have access to hte repo but let me check
2019-11-26T06:47:01 < fenugrec> dongs, you are setting bit 0 of the dest address, or however thumbmode is done
2019-11-26T06:47:12 < dongs> idk? im just copypasting
2019-11-26T06:50:25 < dongs> WTF
2019-11-26T06:54:46 < dongs> LDR     R0, [R0, #4]    ; PC @ +4
2019-11-26T06:54:48 < dongs> R0 ends up being..
2019-11-26T06:54:52 < dongs> 0x1FFFCB45
2019-11-26T06:55:17 < aandrew> dongs: so what are you doing to get ready for DFU
2019-11-26T06:55:25 < dongs> write shit in bkp
2019-11-26T06:55:27 < dongs> systemreset
2019-11-26T06:55:43 < dongs> http://bcas.tv/paste/results/ep25Ej33.html on top of Reset_Handler I do this
2019-11-26T06:55:55 < dongs> literally the first thing i check
2019-11-26T06:56:03 < dongs> 4000x0x = RTC->BKP0R
2019-11-26T06:56:11 < aandrew> ok, so you you're sending a message to futuredongs via SRAM, NVIC_SystemReset and then catching it in crt0 or whatever, checking for the message and jumping to DFU if it exists?
2019-11-26T06:56:19 < dongs> yeah
2019-11-26T06:56:31 < dongs> catching works
2019-11-26T06:56:37 < dongs> its just the jmp doesnt at all
2019-11-26T06:56:58 < dongs> http://bcas.tv/paste/results/gFneR741.html
2019-11-26T06:56:59 < aandrew> ok, and what is the address of RebootLoader? or rather what is the code fror RebootLoader
2019-11-26T06:57:01 < dongs> this is reboot_loader
2019-11-26T06:57:15 < dongs> its clive1 code which is surprising that it doesnt work
2019-11-26T06:57:22 < aandrew> that seems like an awful lot of stuff to do 
2019-11-26T06:57:39 < aandrew> map ROM and jump should be all that's necessary, no?
2019-11-26T06:57:42 < dongs> it enables SYSCFG, sets MEMMODE to 1 (system flash)?
2019-11-26T06:57:44 < aandrew> ROMBL has to init clocks, not you
2019-11-26T06:57:52 < aandrew> (that's a question)
2019-11-26T06:58:05 < dongs> yeah you have to init syscfg to change memmode tho
2019-11-26T06:58:12 < aandrew> hm
2019-11-26T06:58:25 < dongs> Bits 1:0 MEM_MODE[1:0]: Memory mapping selection bits
2019-11-26T06:58:25 < dongs> These bits are set and cleared by software. They control the memory internal mapping at
2019-11-26T06:58:28 < dongs> address 0x0000 0000. After reset these bits take on the value selected by the actual boot
2019-11-26T06:58:31 < dongs> mode configuration. Refer to Chapter 2.5: Boot configuration for more details.
2019-11-26T06:58:33 < dongs> x0: Main Flash memory mapped at 0x0000 0000
2019-11-26T06:58:36 < dongs> 01: System Flash memory mapped at 0x0000 0000
2019-11-26T06:58:38 < dongs> 11: Embedded SRAM mapped at 0x0000 0000
2019-11-26T06:58:39 < aandrew> all of your ROM base addresses are with LSB=0... shouldn't it be LSB=1?
2019-11-26T06:58:50 < dongs> thats clive code, no idea
2019-11-26T06:58:58 < dongs> i'd imagine it works
2019-11-26T06:59:17 < aandrew> LSB=0 is ARM mode, not thumb is all
2019-11-26T06:59:51 < aandrew> maybe ADD R0, R0, #1 before BX R0
2019-11-26T06:59:58 < aandrew> just to see if it's that stupid
2019-11-26T07:00:47 < dongs> diesnt comile
2019-11-26T07:00:49 < dongs> compile
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2019-11-26T07:02:10 < aandrew> oh wait you're loading a vector not PC
2019-11-26T07:02:11 < aandrew> nevermind
2019-11-26T07:02:13 < aandrew> I'm dumb
2019-11-26T07:02:24 < aandrew> LDR R0, =0x1ff00000
2019-11-26T07:02:32 < aandrew> LDR SP, [R0, #0]
2019-11-26T07:02:38 < aandrew> LDR R0, [R0, #4]
2019-11-26T07:02:40 < aandrew> BX R0
2019-11-26T07:02:56 < dongs> that works on M3
2019-11-26T07:03:00 < dongs> doesnt compile on M0
2019-11-26T07:03:10 < aandrew> doesn't compile? what's the failing insn?
2019-11-26T07:03:37 < dongs> cant directly put R0 into SP
2019-11-26T07:03:44 < aandrew> oh I see
2019-11-26T07:03:53 < dongs> wehn im stepping clive code
2019-11-26T07:03:57 < dongs> 0x1FFFC400 is in R0
2019-11-26T07:03:57 < dongs> then
2019-11-26T07:04:11 < dongs> LDR     R1, [R0, #0]    ; SP @ +0
2019-11-26T07:04:20 < dongs> R1 is 0x200014C0
2019-11-26T07:04:32 < dongs> then MOV SP, R1
2019-11-26T07:04:36 < dongs> thats fine
2019-11-26T07:04:41 < aandrew> right
2019-11-26T07:04:46 < dongs> then LDR     R0, [R0, #4]    ; PC @ +4
2019-11-26T07:04:50 < aandrew> right
2019-11-26T07:04:53 < dongs> R0 is now 0x1FFFCB45
2019-11-26T07:04:59 < aandrew> ok and LSB is set, ok
2019-11-26T07:05:09 < aandrew> if you now disassmble 0x1fffcb45, does it look right?
2019-11-26T07:05:12 < dongs> 0x1FFFC400 < but rom jump address is this
2019-11-26T07:05:24 < dongs> why the fuck does it add a few 100 bytes to it
2019-11-26T07:05:34 < aandrew> hm?
2019-11-26T07:05:47 < dongs> R0 is now 0x1FFFCB45 <<< C400 vs CB45
2019-11-26T07:05:53 < aandrew> what is the first four dwords at 0x1ff00000
2019-11-26T07:06:02 < aandrew> or whatever the base is
2019-11-26T07:06:19 < dongs> C0 14 00 20 45 CB FF 1F 81 C5 etc
2019-11-26T07:06:25 < dongs> 0x1FFFC400 is base
2019-11-26T07:06:35 < aandrew> ok, what are the first four dwords @1fffc400
2019-11-26T07:06:42 < dongs> oh dwords
2019-11-26T07:07:03 < aandrew> first dword should be SP, second should be PC
2019-11-26T07:07:03 < dongs> 200014c0 1fffcb45 1fffc581 1fffc581 etc
2019-11-26T07:07:06 < dongs> ah right
2019-11-26T07:07:06 < aandrew> right
2019-11-26T07:07:14 < dongs> thats where it comes from
2019-11-26T07:07:16 < aandrew> if you disassemble at 1fffcb45 does it look like valid assy
2019-11-26T07:07:40 < aandrew> I wonder if you need to DISable sysclk after mapping
2019-11-26T07:07:45 < aandrew> rombl is fucking dumb
2019-11-26T07:08:11 < dongs> at 4 4 tho?
2019-11-26T07:08:29 < aandrew> 4 4?
2019-11-26T07:08:33 < dongs> err
2019-11-26T07:08:37 < dongs> at 4 5 tho?
2019-11-26T07:08:40 < dongs> isnt that misligned
2019-11-26T07:08:52 < aandrew> well you look at 1ffcb44 yes
2019-11-26T07:09:08 < aandrew> the LSB =1 is just a flag to the cpu that it's decoding thumb
2019-11-26T07:09:13 < aandrew> it still reads aligned
2019-11-26T07:11:19 < dongs> https://i.imgur.com/eMR62nF.png looks legit to me
2019-11-26T07:11:52 < aandrew> yeah it does
2019-11-26T07:12:09 < aandrew> what happens if you single step into your BX R0, do you get to this code?
2019-11-26T07:12:15 < dongs> nope it crashes instantly
2019-11-26T07:12:18 < dongs> or resets or whatever
2019-11-26T07:12:26 < aandrew> hm
2019-11-26T07:12:28 < dongs> right now its just looping in that bootlaoder area over and over
2019-11-26T07:12:33 < dongs> cuz BKP isnt changed
2019-11-26T07:12:33 < aandrew> that's really fucking weird
2019-11-26T07:12:49 < dongs> gonna try to take out that CFGR shit
2019-11-26T07:12:59 < aandrew> I'd try disabling systick or whatever you had to enable to get the ROM mapped, I'm out of other ideas
2019-11-26T07:12:59 < dongs> but... that shouldnt matter
2019-11-26T07:13:36 < aandrew> you know what, don't remap anything
2019-11-26T07:13:40 < aandrew> take that righ tout
2019-11-26T07:14:01 < aandrew> just load 1fffc400/404 into SP/R0 and jump r0
2019-11-26T07:15:46 < aandrew> everything I'm reading says to remap to get ISRs to work but if disabling the clock to get back to as close to reset conditions as possible is, then I'd try not remapping at all
2019-11-26T07:16:59 < dongs> i dont ened to disable any clcoks, this is ltieralyl the first thing tha runs at reset
2019-11-26T07:17:04 < dongs> not even C code startrs
2019-11-26T07:17:23 < aandrew> ok
2019-11-26T07:17:24 < aandrew> fuck this
2019-11-26T07:17:26 < aandrew> try this
2019-11-26T07:17:34 < aandrew> ldr r0, =0x0
2019-11-26T07:17:41 < dongs> ok took out rmapping
2019-11-26T07:17:42 < aandrew> ldr r1, [r0, #0]
2019-11-26T07:17:45 < aandrew> ldr sp, r1
2019-11-26T07:17:46 < dongs> absolutely nothign happens
2019-11-26T07:17:50 < dongs> next after bx r0 is just
2019-11-26T07:17:51 < aandrew> ldr r0, [r0, #4]
2019-11-26T07:17:54 < dongs> back to reset vector
2019-11-26T07:17:54 < aandrew> bx r0
2019-11-26T07:17:55 < dongs> THE FUCK
2019-11-26T07:18:03 < dongs> yiou mean after rmap?
2019-11-26T07:18:05 < aandrew> (note that I'm not looking at 1fffcwhatever
2019-11-26T07:18:09 < aandrew> I'm looking at zero
2019-11-26T07:18:11 < dongs> right
2019-11-26T07:18:15 < dongs> i had a version like that too
2019-11-26T07:18:19 < aandrew> fuck
2019-11-26T07:18:20 < aandrew> ok
2019-11-26T07:18:38 < aandrew> no I'm saying if you disable sysclk which you just enabled to remap
2019-11-26T07:19:35 < dongs> makes no fuckign sense
2019-11-26T07:21:02 < aandrew> so
2019-11-26T07:21:04 < aandrew> let's recap
2019-11-26T07:21:35 < aandrew> 1: remap rom to 0x0, load sp/pc from offset 0/4 @ 1fffc400: hang
2019-11-26T07:21:47 < aandrew> 2: remap rom to 0x0, load sp/pc from offset 0/4 @ 0x0: hang
2019-11-26T07:22:10 < aandrew> 3: don't remap, load sp/pc from offset 0/4 @ 1fffc400: ?
2019-11-26T07:22:23 < dongs> its not hang, it just goes right ot start of reset v ector instantly
2019-11-26T07:22:31 < dongs> like BX R0 -> back at reset vector
2019-11-26T07:22:38 < aandrew> 4. remap rom to 0x0, disable sysclk, load sp/pc from offset 0/4 ?
2019-11-26T07:23:09 < dongs> FUCKIGNKLSDFHJGKSDJGHFKJHFDKJGFDH
2019-11-26T07:23:10 < dongs> WTF
2019-11-26T07:23:19 < aandrew> what address when you say reset vector, because we are trying to call the rombl reset vector, but I assume you mean your code (in flash) reset vecotr address
2019-11-26T07:24:47 < dongs> me Reset_Handler is at 0x080000E2 
2019-11-26T07:25:22 < aandrew> ok so in flash
2019-11-26T07:25:24 < aandrew> your flash
2019-11-26T07:25:26 < dongs> 0x80000000 has:
2019-11-26T07:25:34 < dongs> 20000538 080000E3
2019-11-26T07:25:36 < dongs> so its right
2019-11-26T07:25:37 < aandrew> right
2019-11-26T07:25:41 < dongs> sp + my vector
2019-11-26T07:25:41 < aandrew> make sense
2019-11-26T07:25:56 < aandrew> except that it's supposed to be ROMBL not flash
2019-11-26T07:25:57 < aandrew> hm
2019-11-26T07:26:10 < dongs> no i mean, thats wahts in startup
2019-11-26T07:26:14 < dongs> when chip is reset
2019-11-26T07:26:19 < aandrew> I read somewhere that BOOT0 may be sampled by the rombl and jump back to your code if it's not indicating rombl
2019-11-26T07:26:28 < dongs> http://bcas.tv/paste/results/HeZcMp24.html
2019-11-26T07:26:30 < dongs> this shit executes
2019-11-26T07:26:39 < dongs> condition passes
2019-11-26T07:26:44 < dongs> it goes to reboot_loader
2019-11-26T07:26:47 < dongs> which does the shit i pasted before
2019-11-26T07:26:52 < dongs> with or without SYSCFG doesnt amtter
2019-11-26T07:26:59 < dongs> as soon as I do BX R0 at end of it
2019-11-26T07:27:03 < dongs> im back at 80000E2
2019-11-26T07:27:11 < dongs> like next step.
2019-11-26T07:28:15 < aandrew> and you've already disassembled part of rombl so it's not like it's protected and trying to single step the shit is failing because of that
2019-11-26T07:30:55 < dongs> hm my code doesnt set MSP
2019-11-26T07:31:32 < dongs> but thats same as setting SP from ASM isnt it?
2019-11-26T07:35:17 < aandrew> I think you want MSP 
2019-11-26T07:35:51 < dongs> i wonder if im getting fucked by gcc asm
2019-11-26T07:44:07 < dongs> Due to empty check mechanism present on this product, it is not possible to jump from user code to system bootloader. Such jump will result in a jump back to user flash space. But if the first 4 bytes of User Flash (at 0x0800 0000) are empty at the moment of jump (ie. erase first sector before jump or execute code from SRAM while Flash is empty), then system bootloader will be executed when jumped to.
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2019-11-26T07:44:26 < dongs> fucking nigger what
2019-11-26T07:46:57 < aandrew> what the fuck
2019-11-26T07:47:16 < aandrew> so basically the rombl checks flash to see if it's empty and jumps ot it if not
2019-11-26T07:47:21 < aandrew> what a fucking idiotic thing to do
2019-11-26T07:47:39 < dongs> yes, it does that so that when chip is blank its in DFU bootloader
2019-11-26T07:48:39 < dongs> but my problem is i cant even step into that code
2019-11-26T07:48:45 < dongs> gonan try with ozone
2019-11-26T07:48:48 < dongs> in case its some cockup in KEIL
2019-11-26T07:53:07 < dongs> OK bl steps
2019-11-26T07:53:16 < dongs> so i think im hitting that fuckign flash page garbage
2019-11-26T07:53:18 < dongs> what the fuck man
2019-11-26T07:53:34 < dongs> i dont want to fuckign write asm to move shit into ram and erase a page
2019-11-26T07:53:37 < dongs> FUCK YOU ST
2019-11-26T07:56:00 < aandrew> yeah that's pretty fucking lame
2019-11-26T07:56:45 < dongs> this also absolutely makes sure the product is bricked
2019-11-26T07:56:50 < aandrew> yep
2019-11-26T07:56:51 < dongs> cuz once you erase 1st page your boned
2019-11-26T07:56:53 < aandrew> way to go st
2019-11-26T07:56:54 < dongs> nice fucking work st
2019-11-26T07:57:28 < jpa-> which product is that?
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2019-11-26T07:57:52 < jpa-> jump to rom dfu worked fine on STM32F427
2019-11-26T07:57:57 < dongs> there's 3 of them
2019-11-26T07:58:02 < dongs> F040, F070 and some L0
2019-11-26T07:58:08 < dongs> AN2606 has that text in 3 places.
2019-11-26T07:58:13 < jpa-> ok
2019-11-26T07:58:34 < dongs> https://stackoverflow.com/questions/54977350/jump-to-system-bootloader-from-user-code-with-stm32f042k6
2019-11-26T07:58:37 < dongs> hmm
2019-11-26T07:58:40 < dongs> To work around this, you can set BOOT_SEL=0 and nBOOT0=1 in the option bytes so that at boot, it always boots to main flash, as shown in the table below:
2019-11-26T07:58:43 < dongs> wtf is option bytes?
2019-11-26T07:59:02 < jpa-> the flash option bytes, same place where write protection is
2019-11-26T07:59:31 < jpa-> maybe you can find the check and jump to past the check
2019-11-26T07:59:41 < aandrew> Ted Yapo has a very pleasant voice
2019-11-26T07:59:49 < dongs> jpa, at start of bootlaoder?
2019-11-26T07:59:54 < dongs> that sounds like a super risky hack heh
2019-11-26T07:59:59 < dongs> in case they change it and shit
2019-11-26T08:00:00 < aandrew> listening to https://youtu.be/99u53V7uDFY, nice talk
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2019-11-26T08:00:30 < jpa-> dongs: yeah :)
2019-11-26T08:09:48 < aandrew> that's a really good talk
2019-11-26T08:13:10 < dongs> dumb
2019-11-26T08:13:22 < dongs> when you TIM_Cmd() it leaves the timer pin in wahtever state it was in
2019-11-26T08:13:23 < dongs> wtf
2019-11-26T08:13:32 < dongs> do I need to reset TIM->CNT to make it not do that?
2019-11-26T08:13:39 < dongs> whether it was high or low
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2019-11-26T08:49:07 < jpa-> dongs: maybe you need an update event?
2019-11-26T08:49:29 < jadew> in case you thought your solder wire was too thick: https://youtu.be/oryeBziobCs?t=1452
2019-11-26T08:50:52 < dongs> lul i have some of htat
2019-11-26T08:51:00 < dongs> i got it for my dipjunk solder pot
2019-11-26T08:51:04 < dongs> literally same kinda sticks
2019-11-26T08:51:08 < jadew> hah
2019-11-26T08:51:12 < jadew> so that's where it can be used
2019-11-26T08:51:15 < jadew> nice
2019-11-26T08:51:19 < dongs> yes
2019-11-26T08:51:58 < jadew> you cut it first or do you just put it in and when it fills the pot you take it out?
2019-11-26T08:56:11 < dongs> no you just melt it into the pot
2019-11-26T08:56:13 < dongs> and just leave it there
2019-11-26T08:56:17 < dongs> like when I first pwoered it up
2019-11-26T08:56:26 < dongs> i just stick the shit in there and let it slowly fall in like terminator
2019-11-26T08:56:56 < dongs> DIP pot you just heat up and reuse and add more shit as solder gets used
2019-11-26T08:57:00 < dongs> you dont really need to take any of it out
2019-11-26T08:57:25 < jadew> do you have to apply flux or anything?
2019-11-26T08:57:35 < jadew> or it just works?
2019-11-26T08:58:41 < dongs> when tinning fat wires i dipped wire into flux first
2019-11-26T08:58:47 < dongs> then into pot
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2019-11-26T09:41:23 < dongs> motehrfucker
2019-11-26T09:41:29 < dongs> fucking alticuck even ignores default routing via 
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2019-11-26T10:03:58 < dongs> they keep making routing fuckign worse and worse holy shit.
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2019-11-26T10:38:25 < Steffanx> Dont forget you're a beta tester, dongs
2019-11-26T10:40:16 < dongs> yeah but its prety obvious nobody is actually testing
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2019-11-26T10:54:24 < Spirit532> what are we beta testing
2019-11-26T10:55:35 < Spirit532> oh, altium
2019-11-26T10:55:38 < Spirit532> someone's got money
2019-11-26T11:18:09 < Steffanx> Dont you have money, Spirit532  ?
2019-11-26T11:18:17 < Spirit532> a little
2019-11-26T11:18:25 < Spirit532> an amount I can definitely quantify and count in my head
2019-11-26T11:18:33 < Steffanx> :)
2019-11-26T11:21:35 < jadew> elon musk was on rick and morty
2019-11-26T11:21:46 < jadew> he voiced Elon Tusk :P
2019-11-26T11:26:27 < Steffanx> Ty
2019-11-26T11:27:16 < jadew> for the spoiler?
2019-11-26T11:27:48 < jadew> it's not a big spoiler... especially since it's all over the news
2019-11-26T11:30:18 < jadew> DHL is delaying my shipment again for stupid reasons
2019-11-26T11:30:32 < jadew> all they have to do is tell me how much 20% is out of the invoice total
2019-11-26T11:31:04 < jadew> this is the 2nd day I'm not getting a reply from them
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2019-11-26T11:42:46 < jadew> https://i.imgur.com/gBKlV97.mp4
2019-11-26T11:43:48 < karlp> qyx: so... the pciex edge connector that was added to the fotprints library _does_ use the edge cuts, they were just advised to use another layer in the editor, and then edit the file it made to switch it to edge cuts manually outside.
2019-11-26T11:43:51 < rue_bed2> tell them your going to press theft charges?
2019-11-26T11:44:00 < karlp> and that was then allowed to be committed!
2019-11-26T11:46:56 < rue_bed2> jadew, I did one with a halogen lamp
2019-11-26T11:47:30 < jadew> rue_bed2, one what?
2019-11-26T11:47:51 < rue_bed2> solder pot
2019-11-26T11:47:57 < jadew> ah, neat
2019-11-26T11:48:15 < rue_bed2> http://ruemohr.org/%7Eircjunk/tutorials/elex/solderpot/main.html
2019-11-26T11:48:46 < rue_bed2> 12V
2019-11-26T11:50:07 < jadew> neat
2019-11-26T11:50:38 < rue_bed2> it froze ok too
2019-11-26T11:50:51 < rue_bed2> its had a few cycles and the bulb is fine
2019-11-26T11:50:59 < rue_bed2> dont need it that often
2019-11-26T11:51:32 < jadew> I thought that thing was plastic
2019-11-26T11:51:38 < rue_bed2> metal
2019-11-26T11:51:48 < rue_bed2> those lamps run pretty hot
2019-11-26T11:51:54 < jadew> that's amazing
2019-11-26T11:52:01 < jadew> I have some of those too, I'll give it a try
2019-11-26T11:52:11 < rue_bed2> carefull tho eh?
2019-11-26T11:52:19 < jadew> yeah
2019-11-26T11:52:20 < rue_bed2> dont spill it!
2019-11-26T11:52:25 < jadew> you don't want to pill that on the floor
2019-11-26T11:52:34 < rue_bed2> I had that metal pan under mine just incase
2019-11-26T11:53:07 < rue_bed2> what do you need it for?
2019-11-26T11:53:11 < rue_bed2> wires?
2019-11-26T11:53:28 < jadew> for kicks
2019-11-26T11:53:31 < rue_bed2> heh
2019-11-26T11:53:33 < jadew> :)
2019-11-26T11:54:13 < jadew> have to go afk
2019-11-26T11:54:16 < jadew> ttyl
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2019-11-26T12:29:19 < qyx> karlp: wtf so it is not a problem at all, only the footprint editor complains
2019-11-26T12:33:51 < karlp> yeah, they apparently had philosophical problems with it at various points
2019-11-26T12:33:55 < karlp> but... everything "just works"
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2019-11-26T12:48:29 < Steffanx> Just ty, jadew  . I dont watch the morty
2019-11-26T12:59:24 -!- Tordek_ is now known as Tordek
2019-11-26T13:03:48 < Tordek> hi, I'm wiring up a schematic involving a stm32, and my crystal says its CL is 8pF, and according to the design notes I should guesstimate 10pF for the pcb/ic capacitance, so I can't solve the equation for the crystal capacitors: (CL1*CL2)/(CL1+CL2) = CL-CS = -2pF? 
2019-11-26T13:09:50 < PaulFertser> Time to upgrade https://github.com/karlp/zypsnips/blob/master/crystal-load-wisdom.txt ?
2019-11-26T13:10:39 < karlp> with what?
2019-11-26T13:11:21 < karlp> CL is 8, so C1 and C2 should be~13-15 or so then...
2019-11-26T13:11:57 < karlp> depending on what you want to allow for your board.
2019-11-26T13:12:12 < karlp> there's a nicely detailed appnote from st on this too if you want to go down the rabbit hole.
2019-11-26T13:15:15 < Tordek> karlp: I'm reading the appnote but I suck at electronics; I just hit keys to tell it how to go
2019-11-26T13:16:29 < karlp> then stop reading the appnote, and read the one line statement in zypsnips
2019-11-26T13:16:34 < karlp> "you're overthinking it"
2019-11-26T13:16:54 < karlp> you can even go simpler, "just put down 12pf all the time and it'll be ok"
2019-11-26T13:17:01 < Tordek> lol
2019-11-26T13:17:09 < karlp> or even, "do I really actually need a crystal? why?"
2019-11-26T13:18:33 < karlp> getting it wrong can mean slightly higher or lower frequency (which likely doesn't matter for you) and slightly lower/higher power consumption, and slightly lower/higher startyup times.
2019-11-26T13:19:23 < karlp> if those matter, then "guestimating" board capacicatnce won't be good enough anyway, and you should correctly model it for your situation
2019-11-26T13:19:52 < karlp> for everything else, C1/2 = Cl*2 - a bit. :)
2019-11-26T13:20:37 < Tordek> cool, thank you!
2019-11-26T13:22:25 < karlp> (and make sure you note in your design review that "some dude on the internet said so" for justification) 
2019-11-26T13:23:42 < srk> "just like 1M parallel shit"
2019-11-26T13:23:48 < srk> what does that mean?
2019-11-26T13:24:16 < PaulFertser> srk: sometimes people add 1M in parallel to the resonator
2019-11-26T13:24:23 < srk> ah, ok
2019-11-26T13:24:40 < karlp> "remove for great justice" is one of my favourite lines in zypsnips honestly
2019-11-26T13:24:45 < srk> :D
2019-11-26T13:24:54 < PaulFertser> srk: it might be absolutely necessary for certain combinations or else too high Q makes it work at the wrong frequency.
2019-11-26T13:27:01 < PaulFertser> We wasted helluva time trying to bringup a board with unfamiliar SoC till our EE guy accidentally touched the quartz with a finger and voila, it started :) 
2019-11-26T13:29:52 < srk> hah, magician
2019-11-26T13:30:45 < PaulFertser> He kinda was. Not much clue in EE but plenty of quality "intuition" and persistence.
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2019-11-26T14:45:51 <@englishman> aandrew: how many cybertrucks did you order?
2019-11-26T14:50:32 < Steffanx> 15. Each son/daughter one right?
2019-11-26T14:59:13 < jpa-> nice how STM32H743 revision Y vs. V have a bunch of changes in clock tree etc.
2019-11-26T14:59:41 < jpa-> i wonder how i'll manage to specify that for BOM to get the right revisions
2019-11-26T15:03:10 < PaulFertser> Essential changes in clock tree? Just wtf?
2019-11-26T15:07:51 < PaulFertser> https://www.st.com/resource/en/application_note/dm00609692.pdf
2019-11-26T15:13:42 < PaulFertser> That seems to be totally insane for a production device.
2019-11-26T15:15:24 < PaulFertser> So it's mostly compatible but not quite. ADC clock /2 divider is the most surprising change I'd say. If it was disabled by default, that would make sense. But here they just introduce incompatibility for a very common feature.
2019-11-26T15:30:22 < zyp> I guess if you got both devices in the wild, you'd just read out the revision and do the right thing
2019-11-26T15:31:02 < zyp> otherwise make sure you only get the new ones, otherwise you'd have to deal with it eventually when the old ones become unavailable
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2019-11-26T16:40:03 < sync> nice
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2019-11-26T17:18:08 < Steffanx> Isnt a H7 way to pro for you anyway, jpa-  ?
2019-11-26T17:21:41 < emeb> H7 is turning me into a wasteful coder. I keep adding features and still not running out of CPU cycles.
2019-11-26T17:28:34 < con3> I have an H7 dev board lying in my cupboard, I dont feel like I'm allowed to touch it yet
2019-11-26T17:31:04 < Steffanx> Same. A dual core one..
2019-11-26T17:31:22 < con3> yeah, ive got the nucleo
2019-11-26T17:31:39 < con3> havent even opened it
2019-11-26T17:31:56 < con3> When I can code without cube and nice and low level ill open it
2019-11-26T17:33:02 < emeb> those dual core things are pointless. might as well just get an RPi
2019-11-26T17:34:15  * karlp threw a quad a53 in for running an expect script thsi morning...
2019-11-26T17:34:33 < karlp> overkill is awesome.
2019-11-26T17:35:40 < emeb> nothing like killing flies with a nuke.
2019-11-26T17:36:03  * con3 licks terminal
2019-11-26T17:36:07 < con3> yep 240V
2019-11-26T17:36:16 < emeb> ouch
2019-11-26T17:36:27 < emeb> I can't stand 9V batteries
2019-11-26T17:36:40 < emeb> or even chewing aluminum foil
2019-11-26T17:36:48  * karlp made a choice between some chinesium recently based on 2xAA vs 1x9V.
2019-11-26T17:36:51 < karlp> fuck 9V.
2019-11-26T17:37:04 < con3> emeb: just kidding. id poop my spine out if i did that
2019-11-26T17:37:07 < emeb> they really should DIA
2019-11-26T17:37:09 < emeb> F
2019-11-26T17:37:50 < karlp> I have a horrible kitchen scale I need to replace that takes 9V, and leaks current horrifically to the point that we can't store it between uses with the battery in, and a smoke detector, only things still on 9V.
2019-11-26T17:38:32 < emeb> I did a little project a few years ago with an L432 that ran for a year on 2xAAA. Put new ones in and it only ran for about 4mo. 
2019-11-26T17:38:49 < emeb> Wonder if there's some junk in the circuit that increased the leakage.
2019-11-26T17:39:21 < emeb> Kind of a PITA to go hunting around for microamp leaks.
2019-11-26T17:40:51 < con3> Man, I still want to look into how to make battery powered devices that can run for loooooong. Some sub ghz temp sensor nodes
2019-11-26T17:41:08  * con3 needs to research again
2019-11-26T17:41:58 < srk> working on some currently, lorawan based
2019-11-26T17:42:26 < Steffanx> Bare metal on an rpi, meh. emeb 
2019-11-26T17:42:36 < con3> lora would be my go to, but I think they might be a bit pricey in low quantity
2019-11-26T17:42:41 < con3> srk: ^
2019-11-26T17:43:00 < srk> depends on modem
2019-11-26T17:43:36 < srk> we currently use rn2483 which is kind-of pricey, gonna switch to rfm95w when wan stack is ready
2019-11-26T17:43:39 < con3> srk: I generally see them on mouser for $15ish dollars if I remember correctly
2019-11-26T17:43:59 < con3> nordic has some sub ghz chips for about $2 i think
2019-11-26T17:44:14 < srk> then to sx1276 directly when we learn rf design :D
2019-11-26T17:44:18 < con3> again though, im probably wrong
2019-11-26T17:44:55 < con3> srk: if you find any good resources on rf, please let me know! I've got a book or two on emc which has really helped
2019-11-26T17:45:48 < con3> these books were quite good for me..
2019-11-26T17:45:50 < con3> https://www.amazon.com/High-Speed-Digital-Design-Handbook/dp/0133957241
2019-11-26T17:45:54 < con3> https://www.amazon.com/Real-World-Springer-International-Engineering-Computer/dp/1402071302
2019-11-26T17:46:01 < srk> cool
2019-11-26T17:46:15 < srk> haha, famous handbook of black magic :D
2019-11-26T17:47:06 < aandrew> englishman: lol. I can make my own low poly trucks thanks
2019-11-26T17:47:45 < karlp> con3: mrf24j40 are still super cheap.
2019-11-26T17:48:03  * con3 googles
2019-11-26T17:48:53 < aandrew> con3: I have the full set of his lecture based on that book
2019-11-26T17:49:21 < con3> karlp: Mouser has it for $15, is that about the price?
2019-11-26T17:49:39 < con3> aandrew: is this something I could get from you or could I purchase them somewhere? The book was amazing
2019-11-26T17:49:52 < karlp> https://www.digikey.com/product-detail/en/microchip-technology/MRF24J40-I-ML/MRF24J40-I-ML-ND/1228727 is ~$3 in singles?
2019-11-26T17:49:58 < con3> Lent the book from uni and want to purchase it once I start making money :p
2019-11-26T17:50:10 < karlp> and the modules ar eonly $6 https://www.digikey.com/products/en/rf-if-and-rfid/rf-transceiver-modules/872?k=mrf24j40ma
2019-11-26T17:50:28 < karlp> well, they've gone up a bit, they were cheaper.
2019-11-26T17:50:41 < karlp> that's 802.15.4 shits.
2019-11-26T17:50:47 < con3> karlp: why are they so expensive here?
2019-11-26T17:50:53 < con3> karlp: https://www.mouser.co.za/ProductDetail/Microchip-Technology/MRF24J40MD-I-RM?qs=sGAEpiMZZMsn4IaorHFpMIq%252BwebGW7%2FyZHDkDNkDjmM%3D
2019-11-26T17:50:55 < karlp> you should be able to do low power bt stuff these days surely.
2019-11-26T17:51:21 < karlp> that's an "MD" module, something else, picture is wrong
2019-11-26T17:51:37 < con3> dont know much about zigbee, will read up a bit on it tonight
2019-11-26T17:51:43 < karlp> that's the one with the power amp on board.
2019-11-26T17:51:50 < karlp> not zigbee.
2019-11-26T17:51:54 < karlp> 802.15.4, doesn't have to be zigbee
2019-11-26T17:52:15 < con3> mouser has betrayed me, let me quickly check the digikey datasheet
2019-11-26T17:52:26 < con3> ah 2.4Ghz
2019-11-26T17:53:34 < con3> karlp: Supports ZigBee®, MiWi™, MiWi P2P and Proprietary Wireless Networking Protocols
2019-11-26T17:54:29 < karlp> yeah, not jsut zigbee
2019-11-26T17:54:55 < karlp> but some of the modern nordic and cypress 8bt/802.15.4 should be low power too surely
2019-11-26T17:55:09 < karlp> it's all just how often you want to send.
2019-11-26T17:55:36 < con3> Ill look around a bit, i just want to make a small sealed stick on temp sensor that transmits a temp reading every 5 mins
2019-11-26T17:55:46 < con3> want to use that new stm temp sensor
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2019-11-26T17:56:55 < karlp> just buy something from controlant?
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2019-11-26T17:58:41 < con3> karlp: im probably only going to make 10 of them though
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2019-11-26T18:01:47 < bitmask> https://i.imgur.com/uUyA5at.jpg
2019-11-26T18:02:12 < con3> bitmask: that looks really nice
2019-11-26T18:02:14 < bitmask> Wish I had all the connectors hanging off the edge of the board but oh well
2019-11-26T18:02:16 < bitmask> thanks
2019-11-26T18:02:57 < con3> bitmask: light controller?
2019-11-26T18:03:04 < bitmask> heated jacket :)
2019-11-26T18:04:02 < con3> question.. Why do people regularly tilt the mcu like that? Just for aesthetics?
2019-11-26T18:04:20 < bitmask> it usually makes routing easier
2019-11-26T18:04:44 < bitmask> I think at least
2019-11-26T18:06:12 < con3> hmm.. i guess its one of those things that i need to do to see
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2019-11-26T18:08:39 < bitmask> like if you look at the small angled ic at the bottom (right of the usb connector) you can see power coming in on a solid pour from the right, and going out with a really thick trace on the bottom left, having it angled makes it easier to have it as straight as possible.  not the best description but maybe you can understand :P
2019-11-26T18:11:41 < bitmask> https://i.imgur.com/iUKDLCr.jpg
2019-11-26T18:11:45 < bitmask> there we go, with the switch in place
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2019-11-26T18:16:10 < con3> bitmask: i see what you mean. I'll try a design or two with them tilted
2019-11-26T18:16:24 < con3> eh need to figure out TSC
2019-11-26T18:16:29  * con3 makes coffee
2019-11-26T18:16:44 < aandrew> con3: it was on oreilly and you could get a free 7 day trial. there's a chrome extension that lets you download the videos, that's what I did
2019-11-26T18:16:50 < aandrew> let me see if I have them somewhere i can make available
2019-11-26T18:17:11 < con3> aandrew: will really appreciate it
2019-11-26T18:17:23 < aandrew> never used the mrf24j40, but have a lot of experience with nrf51 and nrf52
2019-11-26T18:17:37 < aandrew> bitmask: you removed the image
2019-11-26T18:17:54 < con3> aandrew: I can still see bitmasks image
2019-11-26T18:18:03 < aandrew> yeah it was the earlier link, I found the newer one
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2019-11-26T18:18:36 < aandrew> whose connectors are those I keep meaning to ask. not familiar with "mass" 
2019-11-26T18:19:40 < aandrew> bitmask: one thing I really like about the enclosure design is how you have the ports for the connectors where the enclosure tapers into them. makes it super easy to get things pugged in
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2019-11-26T18:20:18 < aandrew> con3: it's easy to see why the 45deg mcu works well at the top of U1
2019-11-26T18:20:32 < aandrew> to route those pins without the angle would be more of a hassle
2019-11-26T18:21:56 < bitmask> yea I had to make the case bigger to use screws so I just angled it , they are amass xt30(pw), mr30(pw) pw is right angle pcb mount versions 
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2019-11-26T18:27:39 < con3> aandrew: thats a really good point, those traces would be hell
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2019-11-26T18:36:46 < karlp> aandrew: mrf24j stuff is wayyy older, 802.15.4 only, and only a transciever, nrf stuff didn't exist then
2019-11-26T18:40:31 < aandrew> karlp: aha
2019-11-26T18:40:59 < aandrew> yeah I've  been pretty happy with nrf51/52. 52 really fixed up some of the stupids in nrf51 peripherals
2019-11-26T18:42:06 < con3> ooh im going to make a capacitive touch keypad
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2019-11-26T18:51:42  * con3 realizes he said that like it was going to be easy
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2019-11-26T19:03:21 < Steffanx> Getting it to work isnt that hard. Making it reliable under all circumstances is much harder
2019-11-26T19:07:47 <@englishman> aandrew: do it then
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2019-11-26T19:22:23 < kakipr0> why doesn't diff pair tool behaive?
2019-11-26T19:23:09 < kakipr0> I try to match lengths and it just foking cannot put the skew where I want then
2019-11-26T19:23:48 < kakipr0> I adjust it longer I adjust it shorter, change frequency, it just doesn't behaive
2019-11-26T19:26:19 < aandrew> con3: the video lectures are 16GB. the easiest for *me* is to just give you access to my plex server since it's in there. otherwise I have to find somewhere to put 16GB of data using scp/rsync
2019-11-26T19:26:52 < aandrew> if you give me a login somewhere I can just transfer them directly, that would also be easy
2019-11-26T19:29:45 < aandrew> failing all that, give me a pubkey and I'll set up an rsync-only account here
2019-11-26T19:30:06 <@englishman> got any cool fpga resources
2019-11-26T19:30:33 < kakipr0> apparently this diff pair tool works with long straigth traces but not if there is too many corners
2019-11-26T19:30:39 < aandrew> englishman: cool resources? not really. I tend to learn by having a project and beating my head against it until it complies
2019-11-26T19:30:48 <@englishman> same
2019-11-26T19:30:49 < kakipr0> also needs a lot of excess space around the pair
2019-11-26T19:30:50 < aandrew> I have some FPGA books but I have hated every single one I looked at
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2019-11-26T19:32:01 < aandrew> they *all* teach you the wrong way, then a slightly less wrong way, then a slightly more less wrong way and all work on idiotic theoreticals instead of saying "Listen fucker, this is what it looks like in an FPGA, this is what you do, this is what you don't do because reasons, don't every write shit that looks like what you see in other books" etc
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2019-11-26T19:43:12 < kakipr0> can we consider distance between top and first internal layer to be around 0.2mm in 4layer 1.6mm board?
2019-11-26T19:43:26 < sync> you need to look in your stackup
2019-11-26T19:43:45 < aandrew> can any of you get this DOI? sci-hub seems to hang on it, been trying for hte last week or so (other DOIs work fine). 10.13140/RG.2.2.24158.64321
2019-11-26T19:43:45 < kakipr0> I found 8layer example and it was 0.2
2019-11-26T19:44:06 < aandrew> kakipr0: completely depends on the stackup
2019-11-26T19:44:21 < aandrew> kakipr0: you have to ask the board house what their stackup is and what options they have (which cost more)
2019-11-26T19:44:31 < kakipr0> oh it's 1.1mm
2019-11-26T19:44:35 < kakipr0> for 1.6mm board
2019-11-26T19:44:40 < kakipr0> sorry 0.11mm
2019-11-26T19:45:20 < aandrew> for example, I set up a 6 layer board with a huge core so I could use very think prepreg which would let me have 4/4 diff pairs
2019-11-26T19:45:32 < aandrew> thin, not think
2019-11-26T19:54:37 < kakipr0> so how much leave space between diff pair and copper pour?
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2019-11-26T20:08:14 < kakipr0> is there any tolerance between RD and TD pairs in ethernets?
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2019-11-26T20:54:31 < aandrew> kakipr0: there is, but I don't think it's anything you have to worry about at 100mbit
2019-11-26T20:54:45 < kakipr0> I have maybe 1millimeter
2019-11-26T20:54:47 < kakipr0> difference
2019-11-26T20:54:54 < kakipr0> how about copper pour?
2019-11-26T20:54:59 < aandrew> yeah that is nothing
2019-11-26T20:55:00 < kakipr0> diffgap or something else?
2019-11-26T20:55:04 < aandrew> you'll have more than that in the cables
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2019-11-26T20:59:00 < con3> aandrew: thanks for the effort, can i give you access sometime in the future? Dont have anything rn
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2019-11-26T21:08:56 < aandrew> con3: yeah those videos aren't going anywhere. just ping me
2019-11-26T21:09:17 < con3> aandrew: thank you! really appreciate it
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2019-11-26T21:14:03 < Steffanx> no illegal file sharing here, come ooon.
2019-11-26T21:14:34 < aandrew> we're not illegally file sharing
2019-11-26T21:14:40 < aandrew> we're discussing technical matters
2019-11-26T21:15:08  * con3 closes utorrent
2019-11-26T21:16:26 < Steffanx> No excuses aandrew  
2019-11-26T21:17:22 -!- c10ud^^ [~c10ud@emesene/dictator/c10ud] has joined ##stm32
2019-11-26T21:18:31 < Steffanx> (Did this at least sound like a proper channel op? ;) l
2019-11-26T21:20:01 < catphish> oo someone's got illegal files to share?
2019-11-26T21:20:36 -!- c10ud^ [~c10ud@emesene/dictator/c10ud] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds]
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2019-11-26T21:21:21 < Steffanx> I dont trust a catphisher with my illegal files
2019-11-26T21:25:44 < catphish> i'll look after them real good
2019-11-26T21:26:37 < con3> I never know when Steffanx is serious :/
2019-11-26T21:26:44  * con3 still tries not to swear
2019-11-26T21:26:47 < con3> *fuck
2019-11-26T21:27:32 < Steffanx> hah, con3.
2019-11-26T21:28:04 < Steffanx> its all fine
2019-11-26T21:28:17 < qyx> never trust a dutchlander
2019-11-26T21:28:38 < Steffanx> Affirmative
2019-11-26T21:29:31 -!- Jybz [~jibz@2a01:e0a:198:e110:4a51:b7ff:fe84:99e6] has quit [Quit: Konversation terminated!]
2019-11-26T21:30:01 < catphish> i've never known anyone in this channel to be serious about anything
2019-11-26T21:30:09  * con3 slides stroop waffle to Steffanx
2019-11-26T21:30:28 < catphish> why is stroop waffle so good, and why is not in uk?
2019-11-26T21:30:53 < con3> I dont think ive ever seen one in real life
2019-11-26T21:31:57 < qyx> I always think twice about stroop waffels
2019-11-26T21:32:02 < qyx> strop is a ceiling in .sk
2019-11-26T21:32:25 < Steffanx> ceiling waffle, why not.,
2019-11-26T21:33:14 < con3> hmm... i cant seem to find this .. is there a minimum external clock frequency for timers?
2019-11-26T21:34:07 < catphish> mmmm syrup ceiling
2019-11-26T21:34:14  * con3 licks
2019-11-26T21:34:17  * catphish licks
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2019-11-26T21:34:36 < catphish> con3: unlikely
2019-11-26T21:34:46 < catphish> afaik you can increment a timer as slow as you like
2019-11-26T21:34:55 < qyx> con3: no, otherwise they couldn't be used to count external events
2019-11-26T21:35:09 < catphish> think of them not as timer but simple counters
2019-11-26T21:35:09 < con3> qyx: great point!
2019-11-26T21:35:20 < con3> I just tend to double check things alot :/
2019-11-26T21:35:27 < catphish> good strategy
2019-11-26T21:35:28 < con3> thanks catphish and qyx !
2019-11-26T21:35:45 < h4x0riz3d> does anyone use this STDC14 connector shizzle?
2019-11-26T21:36:24 < doomba> shizzle
2019-11-26T21:36:47 < doomba> i recently learned that intel management engine coders like to use the word swizzle
2019-11-26T21:37:01 < catphish> it's a good word
2019-11-26T21:37:02 < doomba> swizzle is something technical. i'm not sure exactly what it is. but there are many swizzles
2019-11-26T21:37:09 < h4x0riz3d> fo rizzle?
2019-11-26T21:37:19 < catphish> fo shizzle
2019-11-26T21:37:20  * con3 takes notes
2019-11-26T21:37:39 < con3> see more things i dont know. can i switch a swizzle at a Mhz?
2019-11-26T21:38:01 < doomba> %a detected DQ Swizzle guideline violation on CH[%d]!
2019-11-26T21:38:03 < doomba> 0x%08x Swizzle to 0x%08x
2019-11-26T21:38:05 < doomba> MrcData::AddrMirror: %d CASWIZZLE %d 
2019-11-26T21:38:26 < doomba> i'm assuming DQ is an abbreviation for Dairy Queen
2019-11-26T21:38:37 < doomba> there's also a CASWIZZLE
2019-11-26T21:38:46 < doomba> DQ CASWIZZLE MY NIZZLE
2019-11-26T21:39:14 < h4x0riz3d> GET A HOLD OF YA SIZZLE, BRIZZLE!
2019-11-26T21:39:42 < qyx> kernel/events/core.c:  * Since we swizzled the values, update the user visible data too
2019-11-26T21:39:44 < h4x0riz3d> I ASKED A QUIZZLE
2019-11-26T21:40:40 < Steffanx> i have the stlink v3 with it, but i havent used it mr h4x0riz3d
2019-11-26T21:40:53 < Steffanx> because it sucks
2019-11-26T21:41:01 < h4x0riz3d> hm?
2019-11-26T21:41:06 < qyx> stlinkv3?
2019-11-26T21:41:14 < qyx> does it stink?
2019-11-26T21:41:15 < Steffanx> mini
2019-11-26T21:41:25 < Steffanx> nah its mini and has this weird 14 pin connector
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2019-11-26T21:41:56 < h4x0riz3d> https://www.st.com/content/ccc/resource/technical/document/user_manual/group1/00/14/17/68/0f/01/48/01/DM00555046/files/DM00555046.pdf/jcr:content/translations/en.DM00555046.pdf - page19, the VCP signals look written backwards to me
2019-11-26T21:42:19 < h4x0riz3d> since when RX is an output
2019-11-26T21:42:45 < h4x0riz3d> i'm thinking i should maybe trust the "type" column and not the pin description
2019-11-26T21:43:28 < h4x0riz3d> or.. the pin description tells my what my signals should be on that connector (which is weird IMO)
2019-11-26T21:43:55 < Steffanx> yeah, not impossible though
2019-11-26T21:44:05 < Steffanx> Tell the guy who made it he's fired.
2019-11-26T21:44:35 < h4x0riz3d> what makes you think he hasn't been fired long ago already ;P~
2019-11-26T21:45:36 < Steffanx> Gotta create tension and suspense bruh
2019-11-26T21:46:01  * h4x0riz3d winds up teh spring moar
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2019-11-26T22:02:21 < jpa-> Steffanx: yeah, it's a bit too pro
2019-11-26T22:03:07 < Steffanx> kyllä kyllä
2019-11-26T22:03:42 < kakipr0> where is lurence?
2019-11-26T22:03:47 < jpa-> banned
2019-11-26T22:04:15 < kakipr0> :O
2019-11-26T22:04:54 < Steffanx> he left all by himself 2 days ago
2019-11-26T22:05:41 < kakipr0> :O
2019-11-26T22:05:43 < kakipr0> he ded
2019-11-26T22:06:44 < kakipr0> sauna>
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2019-11-26T22:07:21 < Steffanx> isnt it your duty to go with him now, jpa-?
2019-11-26T22:13:41 < jpa-> nope
2019-11-26T22:17:13 < Steffanx> do you even go to the sauna like a real finnisher?
2019-11-26T22:18:35 < jpa-> quite rarely
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2019-11-26T22:39:19 < Thorn> ariane 5 launch https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oUNOJ28DiJg https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XH7YAHkwxco
2019-11-26T22:46:13 < Steffanx> T-23. TY
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2019-11-26T23:07:51 < kakipr0> is (Er) dielectric constant?
2019-11-26T23:08:26 < kakipr0> in lets say saturn tool there is FR4-STD and Er field has value 4.6
2019-11-26T23:12:27 < Steffanx> Yessir.
2019-11-26T23:14:04 < kakipr0> I see it doens't make that much difference
2019-11-26T23:14:15 < kakipr0> pcbway has substrate Er of 4.3
2019-11-26T23:14:33 < kakipr0> it alters values ever so slightly
2019-11-26T23:15:46 < Ultrasauce> launch is back on track, T-8m
2019-11-26T23:16:58 < kakipr0> ##launch32
2019-11-26T23:18:47 < Steffanx> The stream is fucking awful. I cannot deal with lip sync like this.
2019-11-26T23:19:19 -!- con3 [~kvirc@154.119.40.183] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds]
2019-11-26T23:19:47 < kakipr0> is there ideal impendance for logic traces?
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2019-11-26T23:19:56 < kakipr0> 50 right?
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2019-11-26T23:20:04 < kakipr0> microstrips
2019-11-26T23:20:27 < Steffanx> Is it gonna be huge gigahurtz?
2019-11-26T23:20:31 < kakipr0> nope
2019-11-26T23:20:38 < kakipr0> logic has never failed me
2019-11-26T23:21:05 < kakipr0> I think it needs some effort to make logic signals not to work
2019-11-26T23:23:46 < kakipr0> crystal microstrip impendance?
2019-11-26T23:23:47 < kakipr0> 50?
2019-11-26T23:24:34 < Ultrasauce> are you cargo culting kakimir
2019-11-26T23:25:18 < kakipr0> I'm obsessing
2019-11-26T23:26:33 < Steffanx> hmm, will you be alright?
2019-11-26T23:29:11 < kakipr0> no
2019-11-26T23:30:46 < h4x0riz3d> wut'cha doing, kakim0r
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2019-11-26T23:32:34 < Steffanx> occupational therapy
2019-11-26T23:32:45 < karlp> who the fuck thought this sort of glueing in of batteries was a good idea? https://youtu.be/9Imi6xIMiQU?t=375
2019-11-26T23:33:14 < Ultrasauce> pretty much every manufacturer?
2019-11-26T23:33:32 < Steffanx> What Ultrasauce said
2019-11-26T23:33:32 < aandrew> karlp: lots of phones do that. that's 3m command strip type material. works *great* as long as it doesn't rip
2019-11-26T23:33:42 < aandrew> you don't want the battery rattling around 
2019-11-26T23:33:53 < aandrew> that shit's awesome until it rips. then you're truly fucked
2019-11-26T23:34:18 < karlp> yeah, this is the second time I've replaced the screen 
2019-11-26T23:34:24 < karlp> both times, it's ripped instantly on the tabs.
2019-11-26T23:34:32 < karlp> so like.... table flip
2019-11-26T23:34:42 < karlp> prismatic batteries get to bed a little.....
2019-11-26T23:36:25 < karlp> every video I've ever watched of repairs they just come out perfectly
2019-11-26T23:37:44 < kakipr0> karlp: every "thin piece of glass" mobile phone has that nowdays
2019-11-26T23:46:56 < Steffanx> So hows the 
2019-11-26T23:47:01 < Steffanx> NAS getting allow, mr kakipr0?
2019-11-26T23:47:08 < Steffanx> *along
2019-11-26T23:47:14 < kakipr0> nas is running normally
2019-11-26T23:47:23 < Steffanx> gave up on the card?
2019-11-26T23:47:27 < kakipr0> yes
2019-11-26T23:47:38 < kakipr0> consumer level mobos man
2019-11-26T23:47:50 < Steffanx> Had issues with it again. Replaced the thermal paste and it seems fine now again.
2019-11-26T23:47:51 < Steffanx> for now.
2019-11-26T23:48:42 < kakipr0> thermal paste :o
2019-11-26T23:49:11 < Steffanx> yes took the heatsink off
2019-11-26T23:49:24 < Steffanx> of
2019-11-26T23:49:25 < Steffanx> not sure
2019-11-26T23:51:21 < Thorn> is this a switch mode supply? http://www.bitsavers.org/pdf/dec/pdp10/KL10/MF20_schem_May78.pdf page 11
2019-11-26T23:51:39 < kakipr0> new NAS hobby of yours?
2019-11-26T23:52:09 < kakipr0> you fight with the SAS card and replace whole system piece by piece until it works?
2019-11-26T23:52:16 < Steffanx> No?
2019-11-26T23:52:38 < Steffanx> ofcourse not, ill dump the card if it does not work
2019-11-26T23:53:17 < Thorn> looks like it is http://www.ti.com/lit/ds/symlink/lm3524d.pdf
2019-11-26T23:54:25 < Ultrasauce> D9/Q5 is a shunt regulator
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2019-11-26T23:58:02 < leite> hello there
2019-11-26T23:58:27 <@englishman> code composter >>>> iar
2019-11-26T23:58:35 <@englishman> welcome leite
2019-11-26T23:59:12 < leite> strict stm32 or stm8 can be subject here?
2019-11-26T23:59:29 <@englishman> stm8 is awesome enough to be chatted about in here yes
--- Day changed Wed Nov 27 2019
2019-11-27T00:00:05 < Thorn> there is ##stm8 but there's only me in there lol
2019-11-27T00:04:26 < leite> I just got a stm8svldiscovery in hands, cheap little best
2019-11-27T00:05:43 < leite> I have been reading lujji tutorials on bare metal programming, do you guys have another docs or foruns to share?
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2019-11-27T00:11:36 < kakipr0> so usb microstrip should be diffZ: 90ohm
2019-11-27T00:11:49 < kakipr0> sorry usb diff pair
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2019-11-27T00:19:45 < Steffanx> I just downloaded the awful stvd, got a cosmic license, and read the example and datasheet leite 
2019-11-27T00:20:16 < leite> cosmic license sounds funny hehe
2019-11-27T00:20:17 < qyx> a cosmic license?
2019-11-27T00:20:30 < karlp> heh, this stuff sounds neat: https://active-semi.com/products/intelligent-motor-control/pac5523
2019-11-27T00:20:37 < leite> is it cheap or is it cosmic?
2019-11-27T00:20:40 < Steffanx> It's a free commercial compiler.
2019-11-27T00:20:42 < karlp> only $4 in singles on digikey
2019-11-27T00:21:03 < Steffanx> But I believe the open source compiler I forgot the name of is fine too nowadays
2019-11-27T00:21:09 < Steffanx> Sdcc
2019-11-27T00:21:17 < leite> nice, I started using sdcc, but I guess I will learn from cosmic examples
2019-11-27T00:21:31 < qyx> karlp: better than stspin
2019-11-27T00:21:40 < leite> I just manage to make it blink
2019-11-27T00:21:55 < leite> but I need to make it toggle led on switch
2019-11-27T00:21:57 < Steffanx> The examples are just by st. Should be that hard to make em work using sdcc
2019-11-27T00:22:18 < Steffanx> Shouldn't*
2019-11-27T00:22:48 < Steffanx> englishman: going from CCS to IAR?
2019-11-27T00:23:32 <@englishman> oh hi it's 2019 and our software only works in windows 8 compatibility mode LEL $5K PLZ
2019-11-27T00:24:23 < qyx> is it a 16bit dos executable
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2019-11-27T00:25:19 < qyx> https://i.imgur.com/gaW8ubs.png
2019-11-27T00:25:23 < qyx> so I made this symbol
2019-11-27T00:25:39 < qyx> I though it would fit
2019-11-27T00:26:31 < Cracki> what is this, a schematic for ants
2019-11-27T00:27:45 < qyx> ur ant
2019-11-27T00:27:59 < Steffanx> *aunt
2019-11-27T00:28:04 < Cracki> this has to be at least three times taller
2019-11-27T00:28:04 < qyx> it is that great octavo osd335x-sm SiP
2019-11-27T00:28:53 < qyx> I can share this awesome bit of kikecad art
2019-11-27T00:29:09 < Steffanx> Going to solder the bga yourself?
2019-11-27T00:29:12 < Cracki> awesome kittycat https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e_YhOiVT8yE
2019-11-27T00:32:05 < qyx> the answer is in a very distant future
2019-11-27T00:32:36 < Steffanx> Hm
2019-11-27T00:32:49 < qyx> I will attempt probably
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2019-11-27T01:11:45 < aandrew> lol yes this is ridiculous
2019-11-27T01:11:47 < aandrew> break that shit up
2019-11-27T01:12:39 < aandrew> you could break off whatever that big group is on the middle right and the two immediately under it into its own symbol and it'd be 100% better, but beyond that you may want to break it into a few more
2019-11-27T01:12:43 < aandrew> also wow, eagle
2019-11-27T01:12:53 < aandrew> it's been a while since I've seen that. I dropped it when autodesk bought them
2019-11-27T01:16:04 < Cracki> autodesk has the right people to do this from scratch and make it actually usable
2019-11-27T01:16:20 < Cracki> I don't know why they bother working on eagle
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2019-11-27T01:20:25 < qyx> thats not eagul
2019-11-27T01:30:05 < aandrew> qyx: looks like eagle to me
2019-11-27T01:30:09 < aandrew> it's not ugly enough to be kicad
2019-11-27T01:30:46 < qyx> kicad it is
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2019-11-27T01:31:05 < aandrew> really. kicad usually has 80 shades of pastel
2019-11-27T01:31:23 < Cracki> if they want to win an award for ugliest acquisition, they should buy chelsea clinton
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2019-11-27T01:32:17 < qyx> I changed the color scheme to avoid brianhurt
2019-11-27T01:34:25 < qyx> https://i.imgur.com/n77udRq.png
2019-11-27T01:34:28 < qyx> better?
2019-11-27T01:37:47 < Cracki> ok brian
2019-11-27T01:38:10 < Cracki> does it support "busses" going into schematic symbols?
2019-11-27T01:38:31 < Cracki> those LCD pins are asking to be bundled like the sticks they are
2019-11-27T01:39:23 < qyx> idk
2019-11-27T01:39:38 < qyx> I am not gonna use lcd yet, so ~meh
2019-11-27T01:39:39 < Cracki> that cluster of VDDsomething on the top left... does it allow you to have one schematic pin be multiple footprint pads?
2019-11-27T01:39:51 < qyx> yes it does
2019-11-27T01:40:08 < Cracki> eh, just wondering out loud
2019-11-27T01:40:19 < qyx> but they are different
2019-11-27T01:40:33 < qyx> Vddio for signal groups
2019-11-27T01:40:49 < Cracki> I'd make input pins sit on the left side of a schematic fragment, and outputs on the right side of a fragment
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2019-11-27T01:41:13 < Cracki> what's that "GPMC" sharing an island with the lcd stuff?
2019-11-27T01:41:49 < qyx> I am seeing the thing for the first time too :)
2019-11-27T01:41:57 < qyx> I suppose some memory interface
2019-11-27T01:42:02 < qyx> general purpose maybe
2019-11-27T01:45:21 < zyp> why aren't you splitting it into more symbols instead of making sections on a few symbols?
2019-11-27T01:46:01 < qyx> because I hate such schematics
2019-11-27T01:46:17 < zyp> too readable?
2019-11-27T01:46:17 < qyx> 50 sheets, 30 sheets contain a single part
2019-11-27T01:46:29 < Cracki> you have a big cake. you made four pieces out of it.
2019-11-27T01:46:33 < zyp> I mean, you can still stuff them all in a single sheet if you want to
2019-11-27T01:46:37 < Cracki> neither fits on your plate
2019-11-27T01:46:58 < Cracki> yeah big pieces make for big mess per sheet
2019-11-27T01:47:39 < Cracki> you can always put multiple circuits on one sheet
2019-11-27T01:48:14 < Cracki> that's still easier to grasp than one box that appears to do multiple things
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2019-11-27T01:55:17 < zyp> qyx, so are you gonna use all pins?
2019-11-27T01:55:46 < zyp> half the advantage with one symbol per block is that you don't even need to instance the symbols for the blocks you don't need
2019-11-27T01:57:07 < zyp> and you can still stuff them on the same sheet
2019-11-27T01:57:20 < zyp> https://bin.jvnv.net/file/DUqND.pdf <- page 2 here has all six blocks for my stm32f4
2019-11-27T01:58:26 < qyx> yeah I know such schematics, but my ocpd refuses them
2019-11-27T01:58:30 < qyx> I am simply not able to read them
2019-11-27T01:59:07 < qyx> also I want unused pins to be explicitly mark as unused
2019-11-27T01:59:15 < zyp> you're weird :)
2019-11-27T01:59:39 < zyp> well, sure, in that case just stuff all the unused blocks on its own sheet
2019-11-27T02:01:11 < qyx> thats similar to Jan-'s documentation
2019-11-27T02:01:35 < qyx> if she failed to understand the documentation, it may be either her fault or the doc is simply bad for some people
2019-11-27T02:02:50 < qyx> page 5 of your pdf is understandable for me
2019-11-27T02:03:29 < Cracki> look at shiet 4
2019-11-27T02:03:33 < Cracki> you see a bunch of opamps
2019-11-27T02:03:38 < Cracki> they're one quad in reality
2019-11-27T02:04:06 < zyp> well, duh
2019-11-27T02:04:21 < Cracki> this is a good example of why this makes sense
2019-11-27T02:05:01 < zyp> each opamp are independent of the others though, they only share power
2019-11-27T02:05:23 < zyp> unlike the mcu
2019-11-27T02:06:08 < Cracki> the mcu still has different parts like power and clock, various busses, analog inputs, etc
2019-11-27T02:06:50 < Cracki> yes, there's no obvious way to slice something that has gpios with a bunch of AF on them
2019-11-27T02:06:55 < zyp> power, clock and reset is dedicated, the rest is kinda randomly spread around the gpio blocks
2019-11-27T02:07:30 < Cracki> I'd like the software to let me split a schematic symbol per instance, not once at symbol design time
2019-11-27T02:07:40 < zyp> but still, the gpio part of the schematic reads like a mapping table, I don't see any way to make it more readable than that
2019-11-27T02:07:50 < Cracki> so I can have "remainder" and whatever group of pins I deem to be a function
2019-11-27T02:08:15 < Cracki> either that or a custom schematic symbol for just this project
2019-11-27T02:08:42 < zyp> I've seen people do that, name pins after the AF in use
2019-11-27T02:09:29 < Cracki> i'd rather be able to smash a symbol and slice it into whatever this instance is used for... I've never even heard of that
2019-11-27T02:10:18 < zyp> not sure that gives you much benefit over just making a new symbol
2019-11-27T02:10:31 < zyp> clone and rearrange
2019-11-27T02:10:41 < zyp> that's basically what you're asking fr
2019-11-27T02:10:42 < Cracki> making a new symbol sounds like more work than the software letting you tear off and regroup pins
2019-11-27T02:10:48 < Cracki> ic
2019-11-27T02:11:28 < zyp> oh well
2019-11-27T02:11:55 < zyp> at least I hope we all can agree to hate the people that make symbols that look like the physical chip
2019-11-27T02:12:07 < zyp> e.g. a qfp symbol with pins on all sides
2019-11-27T02:12:11 < Cracki> smash the collectivists
2019-11-27T02:12:16 < Cracki> yikes
2019-11-27T02:12:27 < Cracki> at least give it a cockroach shape
2019-11-27T02:13:03 < zyp> http://vivonomicon.com/wp-content/uploads/2018/05/stm32_with_pin_headers.png <- like this shit
2019-11-27T02:13:20 < Cracki> kek
2019-11-27T02:14:22 < Cracki> what the hell is that tall yellow gate thingy, headers? symbol for edges of castellated holes around the board?
2019-11-27T02:14:56 < Cracki> I can see the benefit in arranging headers on schematic like on board
2019-11-27T02:15:02 < Cracki> but not chips
2019-11-27T02:15:11 < zyp> no idea, I just googled «stm32 schematic symbol» and picked the first one that looked like shit
2019-11-27T02:15:54 < zyp> agreed on the headers, check P1 and P2 on page one of the pdf I linked you
2019-11-27T02:16:07 < zyp> those are screw terminals, P1 on the top and P2 on the bottom
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2019-11-27T02:54:42 < qyx> I hate people doing physical-looking symbols too
2019-11-27T02:55:26 < qyx> but I like to see a functional block (eg. a mcu) as a self-contained all-inclusive block
2019-11-27T02:55:44 < qyx> and not a bunch of blocks randomly spread across the sheet or even across multiple sheets
2019-11-27T02:56:12 < qyx> if you look at the schematic, you have to see "oh, this big thing in the middle is a mcu"
2019-11-27T02:56:23 < qyx> there are some xtals, caps, thingies
2019-11-27T02:56:25 < qyx> and not
2019-11-27T02:56:46 < qyx> "whats that block marked IC5-B with PA0-PA7
2019-11-27T02:57:03 < qyx> is it mcu or a memory
2019-11-27T02:57:23 < qyx> oh no, the memory is on the other sheet, it has IC4A with A0-A7
2019-11-27T02:58:20 < qyx> but contrary to this, opamps are a different story
2019-11-27T02:58:51 < qyx> I don't think one may be interested in seeing which particular opamp is in which package
2019-11-27T02:58:59 < qyx> (with exceptions, of course)
2019-11-27T02:59:18 < qyx> so the sheet with opamps is ok-ish
2019-11-27T03:00:21 < zyp> my mcu sheet also got xtals, caps and thingies
2019-11-27T03:00:50 < zyp> and it also says stm32 under each, making it kinda obvious
2019-11-27T03:01:21 < qyx> yeah but lets guess what may U2B be :)
2019-11-27T03:01:48 < qyx> whatever
2019-11-27T03:01:54 < qyx> it is like with coding styles
2019-11-27T03:02:07 < qyx> you dare not draw a GND symbol upside down
2019-11-27T03:02:10 < zyp> yeah, mine is the right one and every other sucks :)
2019-11-27T03:02:27 < qyx> no I am not saying it
2019-11-27T03:02:56 < zyp> me neither, but I like thinking it to myself
2019-11-27T03:03:22 < qyx> I stopped because for every nice thing I make I find another 10 people thinking it is ugly
2019-11-27T03:03:26 < qyx> so fukit
2019-11-27T03:03:38 < zyp> aww
2019-11-27T03:03:43 < zyp> don't mind the haters
2019-11-27T03:03:59 < qyx> I would kill people for not writing {} after an if
2019-11-27T03:04:19 < zyp> agreed, consistency is good
2019-11-27T03:04:33 < qyx> but most of the people don't share this obsession
2019-11-27T03:04:38 < qyx> -of the
2019-11-27T03:06:17 < qyx> back to the point, what the hell is SPI0_SCK, SPI0_D0, SPI0_D1
2019-11-27T03:06:36 < qyx> I assume they are MISO and MOSI
2019-11-27T03:07:11 < zyp> where?
2019-11-27T03:07:36 < zyp> sounds like multilane SPI
2019-11-27T03:07:39 < zyp> e.g. QSPI
2019-11-27T03:08:07 < qyx> that octavo thing https://i.imgur.com/J9Lfqyx.png
2019-11-27T03:09:39 < qyx> I should read a bit about the sitara cortex-a8
2019-11-27T03:09:57 < qyx> maybe it would answer some questions
2019-11-27T03:11:27 < qyx> SPI0_D1(MOSI) there we go
2019-11-27T03:18:19 < dongs> https://www.digikey.jp/ja/product-highlight/o/on-semi/iot-platforms look at the trash digijew sent me
2019-11-27T03:18:59 < dongs> o shit just spooted a newb-connect on there
2019-11-27T03:21:59 < qyx> such round
2019-11-27T03:25:20 < Cracki> >DIKK IoT Studio
2019-11-27T03:25:53 < Cracki> is "fag-connect" haram to say?
2019-11-27T03:27:30 < qyx> 0.5mm pitch bga emmc I don't want, do I
2019-11-27T03:27:54 < qyx> are all emmc in bga :S
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2019-11-27T03:28:33 < zyp> just solder a sd card to your board if you can't do bga :p
2019-11-27T03:29:45 < qyx> zypped
2019-11-27T03:43:16 < qyx> for USB2.0 USB-C, can I safely connect both sides without a mux?
2019-11-27T03:45:48 < zyp> yes, plugs are supposed to leave B6/B7 unconnected
2019-11-27T03:47:35 < doomba> jadew: captive state
2019-11-27T04:07:19 < qyx> one more, USB-C shield, ferrite bead, cap, resistor to ground?
2019-11-27T04:07:43 < qyx> trying to find a proper sch
2019-11-27T04:11:34 < qyx> nothing even in ST's ref design
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2019-11-27T04:29:34 < kakipr0> dongs: using that tvs can I pass signals through unused pins?
2019-11-27T04:30:28 < kakipr0> is it intended way to use it to pass them right through to another side and have some vias for ground
2019-11-27T04:36:27 < kakipr0> https://drive.google.com/file/d/12ksQU_3cGopsOAWiGuLFuzQahSIVC1O1/view?usp=sharing
2019-11-27T04:36:40 < kakipr0> current usb layout is a mess
2019-11-27T04:37:08 < kakipr0> parity hardly kept, vias, multilayer
2019-11-27T04:37:33 < kakipr0> sorry parallelism hardly kept
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2019-11-27T04:52:30 < kakinull> do you have any microusb+tvs example piece of layout to show dongs?
2019-11-27T04:55:57 < kakinull> and do I just throw those series resistors out of the door?
2019-11-27T05:01:26 < Cracki> Did you mean: gate
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2019-11-27T05:03:21 < kakinull> what gate?
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2019-11-27T05:33:30 < Cracki> door
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2019-11-27T06:07:13 < fenugrec> what's that web-2.0 whatever data visualization tool someone was talking about here a few weeks ago ? live charts etc
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2019-11-27T06:48:17 < jadew> what's a cheap voip operator?
2019-11-27T06:48:42 < jadew> I want to call asia for less than 1.5 eur/minute
2019-11-27T06:53:58 < jadew> wtf... google search results are now changing if you hit refresh
2019-11-27T06:54:25 < jadew> can't reproduce it, but they changed twice
2019-11-27T06:54:55 < jadew> the skype result was at the bottom
2019-11-27T06:55:04 < jadew> now it's at the top
2019-11-27T06:55:11 < jadew> and the first link I clicked it's not even there anymore
2019-11-27T06:55:14 < jadew> and it wasn't an ad
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2019-11-27T08:23:41 < qyx> jadew: nexmo
2019-11-27T08:23:53 < qyx> fengrafana/graphite
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2019-11-27T08:31:50 < qyx> it was recommended to me recently, you can try outgoing without paying to sms-verified test numbers
2019-11-27T08:32:10 < qyx> it has SIP too
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2019-11-27T08:52:26 < jpa-> hmm here i've been wondering why make complains "No rule to make target 'main.c'"... i wonder if it might be because i haven't written it yet?
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2019-11-27T09:03:36 < jly> hello stm32
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2019-11-27T09:04:43 < jadew> qyx, thanks, I'll check it out
2019-11-27T09:19:55  * con3 pours him some iso alc
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2019-11-27T09:23:54 < qyx> do you strap all option pins on ethernet phys?
2019-11-27T09:24:11 < qyx> or just phyaddr and configure the rest over MDIO
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2019-11-27T11:13:59 < ufoczek> hi there :)
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2019-11-27T11:25:23 < ufoczek> does anyone know if stm32g0 supports dma->gpio?
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2019-11-27T11:36:54 < jpa-> ufoczek: i'm not aware of any STM32 that wouldn't support it
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2019-11-27T13:15:21 < con3> anyone here ever sold something using paypal?
2019-11-27T13:15:50 < con3> I plan on selling something but scared about refund policies. that the buyer could just request a refund and screw me
2019-11-27T13:18:03 < karlp> they can, you're going to get fucked.
2019-11-27T13:18:14 < karlp> "cost of doign business"
2019-11-27T13:24:05 < con3> karlp: even if everything on my end is fine?
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2019-11-27T13:26:45 < karlp> even without paypal you'll have to deal with ccard chargebacks and disputes
2019-11-27T13:27:00 < karlp> but paypal is fairly famous for not giving much of a shit about vendors.
2019-11-27T13:32:38 < con3> what if i just get the guy to sign stuff saying he received the item ( or the courier that he sends to collect can) ,etc? 
2019-11-27T13:33:46 < karlp> what are you hoping for? that someone all the internet horror stories of paypal jsut goes away if you ask three times?
2019-11-27T13:35:29 < con3> lol, karlp. welp then fuck it. Just heard from someone that paypal sucks for sellers, didnt know there was this big of a bad rep
2019-11-27T13:39:15 < zyp> it's way overblown
2019-11-27T13:39:47 < zyp> I've sold a ton of stuff using paypal, never had an issue
2019-11-27T13:41:06 < zyp> I mean, some people obviously do though, just saying you only hear about the bad cases, not the good ones
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2019-11-27T13:51:40 < qyx> that sitara, I am not going to do 32 footprints for bootstrap resistors
2019-11-27T14:01:46 < jadew> paypal sucks
2019-11-27T14:02:11 < jadew> for one, if they don't like something, they can freeze your funds
2019-11-27T14:02:22 < jadew> then there's the fees
2019-11-27T14:02:46 < jadew> then there's the forced currency conversion if you receive money in anything but what they think is your home currency
2019-11-27T14:03:07 < jadew> (in my case EUR)
2019-11-27T14:04:35 < jadew> they'll take between 5% and 9% from your sale
2019-11-27T14:09:54 < jadew> best way to get paid is via bank transfer
2019-11-27T14:11:02 < effractur> and if you need to recieve other currency take a look at for example transferwise
2019-11-27T14:11:11 < jadew> yep, that's what I'm using
2019-11-27T14:11:15 < jadew> it has been great so far
2019-11-27T14:11:42 < effractur> and if you have your own store and are in the EU located take a look at mollie for example
2019-11-27T14:11:51 < jadew> what's mollie?
2019-11-27T14:11:59 < effractur> a payment proccesor
2019-11-27T14:12:07 < jadew> I'll check it out
2019-11-27T14:12:12 < effractur> that accepts CC and a but load of country local thingys
2019-11-27T14:12:41 < jadew> currently, I'm accepting payment via paypal in EUR
2019-11-27T14:12:51 < jadew> and I only lose 5% on that
2019-11-27T14:13:05 < effractur> they support most of the countries local payment systems
2019-11-27T14:13:25 < effractur> like giropay/ ideal sofort
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2019-11-27T14:19:49 < zyp> jadew, no, you can have multiple currency balances on paypal just fine
2019-11-27T14:20:35 < zyp> I receive USD all the time, and it's kept in USD until I spend or withdraw it
2019-11-27T14:20:42 < zyp> can respend as USD without any conversion fees
2019-11-27T14:22:18 < zyp> https://bin.jvnv.net/file/Pvobx.png <- here's how my account looks at the moment
2019-11-27T14:24:05 < jadew> zyp, yeah, I do that too, but if you have to use it for local expenses, you can't withdraw USD
2019-11-27T14:24:28 < zyp> well, duh, I don't have a local USD account
2019-11-27T14:24:45 < jadew> I do, but you can't use it with paypal
2019-11-27T14:25:01 < jadew> they'll do the conversion to EUR and send you EUR
2019-11-27T14:25:17 < jadew> maybe for you they'll convert to NOK
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2019-11-27T14:40:31 < zyp> yes
2019-11-27T14:41:06 < zyp> I do that with some of the money, but I tend to leave some to cover stuff I'd pay with paypal anyway
2019-11-27T14:41:15 < zyp> just respend it as USD
2019-11-27T14:45:20 < jadew`> me too
2019-11-27T14:45:32 < jadew`> I use that for PCBs usually
2019-11-27T14:57:32 <@englishman> you can withdraw in USD if you have a usd business account at a bank with a routing number in usa
2019-11-27T14:57:47 < jadew`> I do and I can't
2019-11-27T14:57:52 <@englishman> I did that shit all the time
2019-11-27T14:58:06 < jadew`> they want to send EUR to that account too
2019-11-27T14:58:38 < jadew`> I asked them why that is and they said "banking agreements"
2019-11-27T15:01:29 < ufoczek> jpa-: come on, stm32 supports dma->gpio
2019-11-27T15:03:01 <@englishman> that's exactly what he said
2019-11-27T15:13:15 < Thorn> a similar misunderstanding cost RMS his job and apartment.
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2019-11-27T15:21:31 < kakinull> Russian spy whales
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2019-11-27T16:56:17 < bitmask> whaddup boys
2019-11-27T16:58:33 < qyx> kakinull is a whale
2019-11-27T16:59:37 < bitmask> thats an interesting statement
2019-11-27T17:07:23 < qyx> so the sitara supports usb boot
2019-11-27T17:08:00 < qyx> using rndis
2019-11-27T17:08:14 < qyx> with tftp over virtual ethernet
2019-11-27T17:09:18 < qyx> why no dfu
2019-11-27T17:24:27 < Thorn> suddenly old datasheets (and databooks) http://bitsavers.informatik.uni-stuttgart.de/components/
2019-11-27T17:24:30 < kakipr0> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hvaldimir#/media/File:Hvaldimir_sign.jpg
2019-11-27T17:25:36 < karlp> qyx: that usb and tftp over virt ethernet is straight out of how beagleboner set thigns up
2019-11-27T17:25:41 < Thorn> kakipr0: is his original name Vladimir?
2019-11-27T17:26:14 < kakipr0> it has not been confirmed
2019-11-27T17:26:38 < kakipr0> as nobody claims the ownership of the russian spy whale
2019-11-27T17:27:23 < karlp> "Larger EPLDs, with up to
2019-11-27T17:27:25 < karlp> 20,000 gates and over 200 pins (the EPM7000 series), are currently under
2019-11-27T17:27:27 < karlp> development."
2019-11-27T17:27:31 < karlp> nice dump thorn
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2019-11-27T17:31:12 < Thorn> wat https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AkXZcNObUIc
2019-11-27T17:32:18 < Thorn> what kind of make:r aerospace inc. is that
2019-11-27T17:34:45 < karlp> what is he doing?
2019-11-27T17:34:54 < karlp> all I see is "look, I can move a servo"
2019-11-27T17:36:17 < Thorn> it all looks like he raided adafruit, sparkfun and hobbyking and is now pitching for VC
2019-11-27T17:37:52 < qyx> is it made of plastic
2019-11-27T17:38:08 < Thorn> PLA
2019-11-27T17:38:24 < Thorn> it's almost edible
2019-11-27T17:38:57 < qyx> and do I understand correctly that the part in the middle is a rocket engine?
2019-11-27T17:39:46 < Thorn> with what looks like a cardboard nozzle
2019-11-27T17:40:05 < kakipr0> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D0seAFg-uFQ tovarizsch Hvaldimir
2019-11-27T17:42:43 < Thorn> >Beluga Whale returns cellphone after downloading all data OMG!
2019-11-27T17:44:26 < kakipr0> >Beluga Whale returns intel to handler after photographing swedish submarines
2019-11-27T17:49:56 < kakipr0> I bet whales would be really nice assets for pinpointing submarines
2019-11-27T17:50:45 < kakipr0> and sonar operators hear only some whale hanging around the submarine
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2019-11-27T18:49:16 < kakipr0> series resistors removed
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2019-11-27T18:54:28 < Thorn> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uZnuu18FtQk
2019-11-27T19:02:27 < jadew`> google results changed again to what they were originally
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2019-11-27T19:07:45 < kakipr0> any ballpark figures for RMII trace skew tolerance?
2019-11-27T19:10:51 < jadew`> man... google sucks so fucking bad
2019-11-27T19:11:01 < jadew`> I can't believe how annoying they are
2019-11-27T19:11:45 < jadew`> you can't sort the store search results (from the browser) in any meaningful way
2019-11-27T19:12:06 < jadew`> first app could have 1 million users, the next one 50
2019-11-27T19:12:25 < jadew`> and there's no way to sort by number of users, ranking, etc
2019-11-27T19:12:30 < kakipr0> 50mm skew tolerance :o
2019-11-27T19:12:31 < jadew`> just like youtube
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2019-11-27T19:21:23 < Steffanx> is it jadew-complains day?
2019-11-27T19:21:53 < jadew`> it's possilbe
2019-11-27T19:21:56 < jadew`> *possible
2019-11-27T19:22:36 < jadew`> I didn't even tell you about how DHL took 3 days to tell me how much 20% of my invoice is.
2019-11-27T19:23:00 < jadew`> I actually had to get nasty with the call center operators in order to get through to customs
2019-11-27T19:23:38 < jadew`> turned out the customs guys wouldn't have touched my delivery if I didn't insist, because they thought the invoice was wrong
2019-11-27T19:24:13 < jadew`> anyway, and google is getting on my nerves a lot lately
2019-11-27T19:24:53 < jadew`> everything they do, seems to be done in a way that inconveniences you in some way
2019-11-27T19:25:32 < jadew`> no rating on previews on youtube, god forbid you know upfront that a particular thing is garbage
2019-11-27T19:25:41 < jadew`> google wants you to click anyway
2019-11-27T19:26:01 < jadew`> then they completely butchered chrome
2019-11-27T19:26:49 < jadew`> they changed the search engine in fundamental ways that makes it more difficult to search for some things
2019-11-27T19:26:57 < jadew`> I'll stop
2019-11-27T19:27:27 < jadew`> I hope they go bankrupt
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2019-11-27T19:30:41 < qyx> use the duck animal
2019-11-27T19:30:50 < qyx> but imho it is even worse
2019-11-27T19:31:01 < jadew`> yeah, can't say I like it
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2019-11-27T19:46:35 < qyx> I have a SiP with pmic offering lipo charging and the whole battery power path
2019-11-27T19:47:08 < qyx> at nearly no cost I could implement a short-duration backup for the board in case a power board is hot-unplugged/replaced
2019-11-27T19:47:23 < qyx> the question is
2019-11-27T19:48:00 < qyx> the thing draws about 1W, I am expecting around 1 min uptime on backup power
2019-11-27T19:48:16 < qyx> if it is possible to use a supercap with all the other things equal
2019-11-27T19:49:33 < qyx> 2F cap would last for about 5 seconds only :S
2019-11-27T19:49:49 < qyx> going from 4.2 to 3.3V
2019-11-27T19:50:15 < aandrew> heh DHL delivered my chinese RF plumbing parts the other day
2019-11-27T19:50:25 < qyx> 5V to 3.3V is 10 sec
2019-11-27T19:50:36 < aandrew> I have enough to make unrealiable measurements now
2019-11-27T19:51:10 < aandrew> jadew`: yeah I've started using duckduckgo as my search engine becuase I am just not seeing shit I expect in google
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2019-11-27T20:11:46 < jadew`> aandrew, yeah, I had to go to duckduckgo several times too, because it wasn't finding things
2019-11-27T20:12:36 < jadew`> aandrew, chinese plumbing is relatively ok, if you use it to the specified frequency
2019-11-27T20:13:43 < jadew`> (and they usually don't go very far)
2019-11-27T20:14:11 < aandrew> right
2019-11-27T20:14:45 < aandrew> the next step for me is to use the d6 to characterize my terminators and tees and such so I know how they act before I try to measure anything with them
2019-11-27T20:14:50 < jadew`> for example, an SMA-F to SMA-F adapter, that you normally find rated for 18 GHz, they would specify it for 3
2019-11-27T20:14:54 < jadew`> and it will deliver 3
2019-11-27T20:15:06 < jadew`> (not more)
2019-11-27T20:20:59 <@englishman> where is laurent
2019-11-27T20:21:00 <@englishman> https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/new-brunswick/joi-scientific-former-employee-1.5358546
2019-11-27T20:21:03 < jadew`> btw, for the cheap international calls I went with Skype
2019-11-27T20:21:07 < jadew`> works really well
2019-11-27T20:22:04 < aandrew> I just have a voip provider and route through them (local/ld/intl and incoming)
2019-11-27T20:22:15 < aandrew> wife spends *hours* on the phone with .ro
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2019-11-27T20:22:34 < aandrew> had to get the voip provider to remove their "long call" flag because after 4h on the phone it'd drop the call thinking something was wrong
2019-11-27T20:22:44 < jadew`> haha
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2019-11-27T20:25:22 < jadew`> I liked the Skype thing because the audio quality was great
2019-11-27T20:25:27 < jadew`> like a regular call
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2019-11-27T20:26:03 < jadew`> and the price is decent
2019-11-27T20:26:07 < jadew`> ~2.4c
2019-11-27T20:26:22 < jadew`> per minute ofc
2019-11-27T20:26:41 < jadew`> oh, and you get to use your phone number for the ID
2019-11-27T20:26:48 < jadew`> so if they call back, they get to you
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2019-11-27T20:29:57 < aandrew> skype's wideband codecs *are* good, although unless their endpoing is also Skype you'll just be using a normal 8kHz wide channel
2019-11-27T20:30:18 < aandrew> I have to check again to see what my p/m costs are to .ro
2019-11-27T20:30:28 < aandrew> I think local (canada/us) is 1.1c/min
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2019-11-27T20:31:06 < aandrew> nope I'm wrong. domestic is 0.9c/min
2019-11-27T20:32:29 < aandrew> oof, 12c/min? 
2019-11-27T20:32:38 < aandrew> that's premium route so regular toll quality
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2019-11-27T20:33:37 < aandrew> ah that is calling a mobile phone in .ro
2019-11-27T20:33:41 < aandrew> it's cheaper to call landlines in .ro
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2019-11-27T20:35:47 < jadew`> yeah, skype makes differences between landlines and mobile too
2019-11-27T20:39:25 < aandrew> it's the carriers they terminate to that make those rules
2019-11-27T20:39:33 < aandrew> orange/vodafone/etc.
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2019-11-27T21:22:47 < jpa-> meh, today my hands are shaking so bad i can't manage to put even 0.5mm lqfp in place
2019-11-27T21:23:23 < Steffanx> More coffee?
2019-11-27T21:23:43 < jpa-> too late at night for that, but i'm trying some carrot pie now
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2019-11-27T21:24:03 < Steffanx> i read parrot pie. lol.
2019-11-27T21:24:32 < jpa-> from parrots to parrots
2019-11-27T21:25:37 < Steffanx> time to turn your cnc in to a pick and placer then?
2019-11-27T21:26:22 < jpa-> maybe, though seems rather stupid for 1 pcs runs
2019-11-27T21:26:39 < Steffanx> not w hen you're shakey as hell and it takes a shitload of time
2019-11-27T21:28:01 < aandrew> never heard of carrot pie ebfore
2019-11-27T21:28:04 < aandrew> carrot cake yes, but not pie
2019-11-27T21:28:12 < qyx> and whats the difference
2019-11-27T21:28:19 < qyx> before I ask google
2019-11-27T21:28:55 < jpa-> cake is 4cm high, pie is 2.5cm high, no other difference
2019-11-27T21:30:20 < Steffanx> dont you post your parrots food on instagram?
2019-11-27T21:30:28 < Steffanx> or does she do it for you?
2019-11-27T21:31:38 < jpa-> no, i never really got the point
2019-11-27T21:31:42 < kakipr0> 15mm skew on RMII
2019-11-27T21:31:51 < Steffanx> share with your irc mates, jpa-. come oon :P
2019-11-27T21:31:53 < kakipr0> pass or fail?
2019-11-27T21:32:06 < qyx> try
2019-11-27T21:33:14 < jpa-> kakipr0: what does the manufacturer say?
2019-11-27T21:33:27 < jpa-> Steffanx: these she said to be chocolate chip cookies  https://jpa.kapsi.fi/stuff/pix/IMG_20191025_122808.jpg
2019-11-27T21:33:57 < kakipr0> nothing in datasheet
2019-11-27T21:34:09 < kakipr0> there maybe is app note or so but
2019-11-27T21:34:11 < Steffanx> hah, yes. Now i get your point of no point. jpa- :D
2019-11-27T21:34:43 < qyx> :D
2019-11-27T21:34:50 < jpa-> kakipr0: wikipedia recommends 5mm
2019-11-27T21:34:54 < jpa-> so 15mm is probably ok
2019-11-27T21:35:14 < kakipr0> 0,05m
2019-11-27T21:35:16 < jpa-> oh wait
2019-11-27T21:35:17 < jpa-> yeah
2019-11-27T21:35:18 < jpa-> 50mm
2019-11-27T21:35:32 < kakipr0> I cannot be arsed to match lengths
2019-11-27T21:36:29 < Steffanx> Yes you can kakipr0.
2019-11-27T21:36:45 < Steffanx> Damn it kakipr0. Where did the engineer in you suddenly go?
2019-11-27T21:36:55 < jpa-> kicad length matcher is nice
2019-11-27T21:37:06 < jpa-> it makes wigglity giggly traces
2019-11-27T21:38:09 < Steffanx> have a special song to get you in the mood kakipr0 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DN2bQrCW2iA
2019-11-27T21:38:58 < aandrew> hm, interesting. enable DHCP and get a hardfault when touching I2c.
2019-11-27T21:39:15 < kakipr0> Steffanx: the what?
2019-11-27T21:39:35 < Steffanx> what are you referring to mr kakipr0?
2019-11-27T21:39:41 < kakipr0> engineer
2019-11-27T21:40:08 < Steffanx> hm
2019-11-27T21:41:34 < qyx> re: the swizzle topic yesterday
2019-11-27T21:41:35 < qyx> buildroot$ grep -ir swizzle output/build/linux-custom/ | wc -l
2019-11-27T21:41:37 < qyx> 848
2019-11-27T21:42:25 < aandrew> https://nypost.com/2019/11/26/perineum-sunning-is-latest-insanity-wellness-influencers-swear-by/
2019-11-27T21:42:45 < kakipr0> yes
2019-11-27T21:43:07 < sync> aandrew: whatever floats their boat
2019-11-27T21:43:19 < aandrew> heh that reminds me of a stupid joke
2019-11-27T21:43:52 < aandrew> husband: I have a crush on Beyonce.   wife: hey, whatever floats your boat.   husband: no, that is boyancy.
2019-11-27T21:45:29 < Steffanx> Sorry, it didnt sink in yet.
2019-11-27T22:00:41 < Cracki> toasty taint
2019-11-27T22:00:59 < Cracki> just join a nudist club
2019-11-27T22:02:15 < Cracki> >Ra of Earth
2019-11-27T22:02:16 < Cracki> sun god
2019-11-27T22:02:40 < Cracki> >viral
2019-11-27T22:02:47 < Cracki> >gays presenting their butts
2019-11-27T22:02:56 < upgrdman> i must be slowly losing my mind. i'm seriously toying with the idea of making a primitive GPU with an FPGA. and let it received opengl command via uart.
2019-11-27T22:03:12 < upgrdman> i don't even have a need for it, just feel like it could be fun to try.
2019-11-27T22:03:22 < Steffanx> why uart..
2019-11-27T22:03:23 < Cracki> do it
2019-11-27T22:04:13 < upgrdman> Steffanx, just to make it easy to test at first. run code on pc, then copy-n-paste source code into terminal emulator and see what the fpga shits out
2019-11-27T22:05:19 < upgrdman> and if it ends up being slightly useful, i could SEO the fuck out of it... "OpenGL on an Arduino!" etc
2019-11-27T22:05:58 < Cracki> doom in 4k on arduino
2019-11-27T22:05:58 < upgrdman> make it a Hat so people could just shit text to the uart
2019-11-27T22:06:43 < upgrdman> 4k60 bruh
2019-11-27T22:08:51 < aandrew> upgrdman: no, you're not losing your mind. you're just acting like a typical 100-level "intro to FPGA" uni student who comes in to ##fpga at the start of every. fucking. semester. :-)
2019-11-27T22:09:24 < aandrew> it'd be even more fun if you outputed the video frame and then had the arduino overlay text or something on to the 3d scene, like the old Monster graphics cards
2019-11-27T22:10:27 < Cracki> https://hackaday.com/2019/06/29/a-doom-esque-port-to-the-atmega328/
2019-11-27T22:12:33 < upgrdman> aandrew, i kinda miss the feeling of being a student. so much time to fuck off and do things just for fun.
2019-11-27T22:13:06 < upgrdman> i wonder how much i would accomplish if i didn't have to work. or if i'd eventually get lazy as fuck.
2019-11-27T22:14:05 < karlp> aandrew: whose dhcp client code?
2019-11-27T22:14:20 < Steffanx> imagine getting married and having kids upgrdman :P
2019-11-27T22:14:37 < Steffanx> or not marry but still have kids
2019-11-27T22:15:31 < zyp> yeah, imagine that
2019-11-27T22:15:45 < aandrew> I was never a (college/uni) student and I had kids in my early 20s. never had that feeling unfortunately but I do wonder what I could accomplish without responsibilities
2019-11-27T22:16:16 < Cracki> responsibilities focus you, make you actually productive
2019-11-27T22:16:28 < Cracki> play drive only goes so far
2019-11-27T22:16:47 < aandrew> Cracki: yesish; you get lazy without deadlines and I find a bit of stress helps to focus the mind
2019-11-27T22:16:54 < upgrdman> Steffanx, prolly in a year :)
2019-11-27T22:16:59 < aandrew> I'm talking about no responsibilities for family kind of things
2019-11-27T22:17:09 < Cracki> I use playing to explore stuff, but I need some actual responsibility like a deadline or a promise or someone needing it, to keep working
2019-11-27T22:17:16 < Steffanx> hah upgrdman :)
2019-11-27T22:17:44 < Cracki> not stress as such, but knowing it's not just a waste of time
2019-11-27T22:18:05 < Cracki> break it down in terms of time
2019-11-27T22:18:40 < Cracki> how much time can you carve out of your familied day/week, compared to a student who could spend every afternoon on something
2019-11-27T22:19:48 < zyp> I kinda miss all the time I used to have
2019-11-27T22:20:23 < karlp> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-EzURpTF5c8
2019-11-27T22:21:50 < karlp> 3 µSD to SD adapters, onyl one µSD card.
2019-11-27T22:21:57 < karlp> gonna have to buy some more. fucking things
2019-11-27T22:22:16 < Steffanx> Sounds familiar
2019-11-27T22:24:50 < karlp> even lined up some cases for them, and buying multi vendors so I have different colours for them
2019-11-27T22:28:11 < fenugrec> I left early yesterday - anyone remember the software mentioned here for showing live data charts etc ? I recall some fancy dynamic web-based stuff
2019-11-27T22:30:29 < Steffanx> a few are mentioned, grafana is one of em
2019-11-27T22:30:53 < Steffanx> or graphite
2019-11-27T22:31:13 < fenugrec> Steffanx,  grafana is the one I was thinking of. Thanks
2019-11-27T22:36:45 < kakipr0> what  is your favourite microstrip width?
2019-11-27T22:36:55 < kakipr0> 0,1524?
2019-11-27T22:37:35 < qyx> 0.2
2019-11-27T22:37:41 < Steffanx> meter?
2019-11-27T22:38:09 < qyx> furlongs
2019-11-27T22:43:32 < qyx> usb-c sink controller can output anything between 5-20V, right?
2019-11-27T22:43:48 < effractur> depends on the negotiated rate
2019-11-27T22:45:01 < qyx> so a dc/dc is required if I want 4V5
2019-11-27T22:45:17 < qyx> or anything 5V-ish
2019-11-27T22:45:21 < jpa-> zyp: don't worry, in three years you can have multiple hours at a time
2019-11-27T22:45:36 < jpa-> sometimes up to 2
2019-11-27T22:45:39 < karlp> hahah
2019-11-27T22:47:38 < karlp> looking for a new small 8 or so port switch, and I feel like china is ~twice as expensive as it was...
2019-11-27T22:50:13 < jpa-> https://jpa.kapsi.fi/stuff/pix/stm32h.jpg  yay, blinky works
2019-11-27T22:50:22 < zyp> jpa-, lately I've found I focus best on stuff in the evenings after wife and daughter goes to bed
2019-11-27T22:50:32 < jpa-> also: digikey sent me V revision, so success there also
2019-11-27T22:50:49 < jpa-> zyp: same, but eventually staying up too late gets to you
2019-11-27T22:50:54 < qyx> zyp: same here
2019-11-27T22:50:57 < Steffanx> jpa- just wiggled it.
2019-11-27T22:51:22 < Steffanx> whoa, qyx has a wife and kids? thats new
2019-11-27T22:51:43 < qyx> 2.5mo
2019-11-27T22:51:44 < zyp> jpa-, yeah, wife keeps fetching daughter in the morning and putting her in the middle of the bed and then daugher kicks me until I wake up
2019-11-27T22:52:26 < zyp> qyx, 2.5mo kid? just a few weeks younger than mine then
2019-11-27T22:53:07 < aandrew> bleh
2019-11-27T22:53:11 < Steffanx> do i see a tag connect there jpa-?
2019-11-27T22:53:19 < Steffanx> and whats it, the board, doing.
2019-11-27T22:53:20 < aandrew> what's the correct way to create a sch+pcb intlib for a project, pulling all the shit you may have got from vault?
2019-11-27T22:56:29 < zyp> karlp, just a completely plain switch?
2019-11-27T22:58:05 < jpa-> zyp: we've acquired like 3 beds for son by now, still ends up sleeping in our bed; considering changing arrangements yet again
2019-11-27T22:58:29 < jpa-> Steffanx: it'll hopefully be a sigrok-compatible logic analyzer + current monitor eventually
2019-11-27T22:58:36 < jpa-> Steffanx: and yeah, tagconnect is cool now
2019-11-27T22:58:37 < Steffanx> aha
2019-11-27T22:59:11 < qyx> https://www.i4wifi.cz/cs/210698-switch-tp-link-tl-sg108
2019-11-27T22:59:16 < qyx> karlp: like this? ^
2019-11-27T22:59:51 < karlp> just looked up an old order, seems I remembered them cheaper than reality.
2019-11-27T22:59:57 < karlp> qyx: yeah, just like that.
2019-11-27T23:00:15 < jpa-> i wonder if 480MHz is fast enough for blinky
2019-11-27T23:01:03 < Steffanx> always wondered if the Netgear GS108 is actually the same thing
2019-11-27T23:01:51 < karlp> jpa-: looking at redoing baylibre's acme properly?
2019-11-27T23:02:30 < qyx> Steffanx: I also have a similar 5-port d-link
2019-11-27T23:02:41 < Steffanx> oh and ther is dlink indeed
2019-11-27T23:03:53 < jpa-> karlp: not sure about properly, but making a device that has all the basic stuff i need often
2019-11-27T23:03:56 < zyp> jpa-, daughter is in her second so far
2019-11-27T23:04:25 < zyp> she doesn't really get to sleep in ours, just morning cuddles
2019-11-27T23:05:33 < jpa-> karlp: current plan is 200MHz x 8ch logic analyzer with adjustable threshold, 2x 16-bit 3MSps analog input, 1x analog output, current measurement with 50mV drop and 50mA, 1A ranges, USB FS protocol analyzer; BOM cost is around 25 EUR
2019-11-27T23:05:52 < karlp> nice mix.
2019-11-27T23:06:32 < jpa-> the question is if i can get the data to compress enough to stream through USB high-speed; though with the 1MB ram, one can get reasonably long captures even if it can't stream at full 200 MHz
2019-11-27T23:08:08 < karlp> so, usb2-hs for host, what are the other usb micro and usb-a for, watching power through?
2019-11-27T23:08:33 < jpa-> watching power, and the USB FS protocol analyzer
2019-11-27T23:08:55 < jpa-> (basically just 2 more channels of logic analyzer, except with PLL to get 96 MHz sampling)
2019-11-27T23:09:54 < jpa-> also usb hub chip there to force devices to FS mode, and so that one can trigger USB resets etc. by software
2019-11-27T23:11:42 < zyp> cute
2019-11-27T23:13:32 < Steffanx> what is u9 jpa-?
2019-11-27T23:14:03 < jpa-> Steffanx: level translator for logic inputs, 74AVC8T245PW
2019-11-27T23:16:24 < Steffanx> so when is the version with fpga coming? with fancy triggers et all?
2019-11-27T23:16:37 < zyp> and more channels!
2019-11-27T23:16:45 < jpa-> once this one succeeds ;)
2019-11-27T23:16:58 < Steffanx> and a fancy aluminium red/black enclosure.
2019-11-27T23:16:59 < jpa-> but no need for FPGA for fancy triggers, i think that should be manageable in software
2019-11-27T23:17:22 < jpa-> yeah, enclosure is still a question mark, will probably go with laser cut plastic to start with
2019-11-27T23:18:36 < jpa-> zyp: yeah, could get 14 channels with DCMI instead of QUADSPI, but that would be limited to 80 MHz; and anyway, USB HS gets too slow
2019-11-27T23:19:02 < jpa-> not sure i'm up to interfacing USB 3.0 with FPGA, though i guess there are chips like FX3 that make it easy-ish
2019-11-27T23:19:07 < zyp> time to do SS then :)
2019-11-27T23:19:13 < zyp> yeah
2019-11-27T23:19:27 < jpa-> or wait for a 1 GHz STM32 with SS :)
2019-11-27T23:20:01 < jpa-> one can probably already interface USB SS to STM32MP somehow
2019-11-27T23:20:02 < zyp> FX3 is the obvious solution, don't know about any others unless you wanna do it in the FPGA itself
2019-11-27T23:20:41 < zyp> https://bin.jvnv.net/file/8eHh8.jpg https://bin.jvnv.net/file/E0Ykm.jpg https://bin.jvnv.net/file/mnW4L.jpg https://bin.jvnv.net/file/X6q0e.jpg
2019-11-27T23:20:49 < zyp> I got my PoE tablet mounted on the wall
2019-11-27T23:20:52 -!- smvoss_ is now known as smvoss
2019-11-27T23:21:12 < zyp> just need a short flat patch cable to hook up networking, but those don't arrive before friday
2019-11-27T23:22:40 < Steffanx> :)
2019-11-27T23:23:15 < Steffanx> is that the usb-serial port you mentioned before? or wasnt that you
2019-11-27T23:27:21 < karlp> is that your PoE table/HMI thing?
2019-11-27T23:27:50 < karlp> and a 3d printed mounting bracket?
2019-11-27T23:27:56 < zyp> yes
2019-11-27T23:28:30 < zyp> I drew up some shit in fusion 360 and had a friend print it, turned out well on the first try
2019-11-27T23:28:34 < zyp> better than I expected :)
2019-11-27T23:29:01 < zyp> https://bin.jvnv.net/file/Lb4GI.png
2019-11-27T23:29:09 < karlp> hrm, flashed some bad shit to spi, now I need another uSD card to put the recovery shit on, but that means wipin gthe currently working sd card I wanted to use as backup
2019-11-27T23:29:18  * karlp considers just doing something else instead...
2019-11-27T23:30:02 < Steffanx> if you cant print that you have serious issues, zyp
2019-11-27T23:30:14 < Steffanx> or are you doubting your own design skills
2019-11-27T23:30:27 < zyp> haha
2019-11-27T23:30:44 < jpa-> it could peel off the bed and become warped, though
2019-11-27T23:30:45 < zyp> had a friend print it because I haven't done any printing since I moved
2019-11-27T23:30:56 < zyp> printers are still packed down
2019-11-27T23:31:39 < catphish> is USB OTG as hard as people say?
2019-11-27T23:32:07 < jpa-> if you find a good working usb library, it's quite easy
2019-11-27T23:32:26 < catphish> i guess that's the answer, did zyp make one?
2019-11-27T23:32:40 < jpa-> usb device is quite annoying with a bad usb library; usb host is slightly more difficult than usb device; usb OTG is the both combined and a bit extra
2019-11-27T23:32:47 < catphish> i got all my USB FS understanding from zyp's code
2019-11-27T23:33:04 < jpa-> not sure if laks does usb host at all
2019-11-27T23:33:16 < catphish> luckily i have no interest in usb host, that's always much harder
2019-11-27T23:33:28 < jpa-> ... so what part of it is "OTG" then?
2019-11-27T23:34:49 < catphish> that's just what the hardware is
2019-11-27T23:34:58 < jpa-> if you just want to use the OTG_FS peripheral in device mode, then that's easy; libopencm3, chibios, laks etc. have working stacks - even nuttx almost works
2019-11-27T23:34:58 < zyp> uh
2019-11-27T23:35:15 < zyp> OTG specifically refers to the ability to switch between host and device modes
2019-11-27T23:35:20 < catphish> jpa-: that's good
2019-11-27T23:35:23 < zyp> if you only need one of the modes, you don't want OTG
2019-11-27T23:35:39 < zyp> (even if you're using a OTG-capable USB core
2019-11-27T23:35:40 < zyp> )
2019-11-27T23:35:57 < catphish> zyp: to clarify, i only want device mode, i have no interest in OTG or host mode but... i wondered about using devices that *have* OTG
2019-11-27T23:35:58 < zyp> and yes, my code also supports the dwc_otg core
2019-11-27T23:36:23 < catphish> because dwc_otg seems to be the way things are going
2019-11-27T23:36:30 < zyp> IIRC that was actually the first core I supported
2019-11-27T23:36:36 < catphish> are there other otg cores?
2019-11-27T23:36:49 < catphish> or is it just that one, or the simple fs_device?
2019-11-27T23:36:50 < kakipr0> recommend analog mux
2019-11-27T23:36:52 < zyp> presumably
2019-11-27T23:37:01 < zyp> I mean, not in stm32
2019-11-27T23:37:50 < zyp> Steffanx, I was mostly worried about it becoming as rigid as I wanted it to be
2019-11-27T23:38:12 < zyp> you don't want a touchscreen that moves when you touch it
2019-11-27T23:38:29 < zyp> or issues with fit
2019-11-27T23:42:08 < Steffanx> :)
2019-11-27T23:43:44 < zyp> but yeah, shit's nice
2019-11-27T23:44:39 < zyp> I've got another one of those outlets by the entrance door, so I'm planning to buy another to put there
2019-11-27T23:44:53 < zyp> but first I need a proper PoE switch, I'm out of PoE ports
2019-11-27T23:45:34 < zyp> at the moment I've got an edgerouter-poe that has five ports
2019-11-27T23:45:53 < zyp> but two of those are routing ports, the last three are switched
2019-11-27T23:46:11 < zyp> and I need one of them to connect to my main switch, leaving two usable poe ports on the lan
2019-11-27T23:46:28 < zyp> and I've already got two wlan APs and now one tablet
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2019-11-28T00:36:51 < qyx> mhm kicad messed my a, b, c, d symbol units
2019-11-28T00:37:16 < qyx> b and c got exchanged
2019-11-28T00:37:23 < qyx> quite a mess in the schematic now
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2019-11-28T00:39:18 < qyx> fuck it exchanged them back
2019-11-28T00:39:36 < qyx> I am curious if it names units randomly on every save
2019-11-28T00:41:02 < Steffanx> Is this what they call the sores?
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2019-11-28T01:17:44 < karlp> heh, jsut typed mikrodik into google.
2019-11-28T01:20:26 < qyx> I should not have gone with usb-c, too steep learning curve
2019-11-28T01:22:35 < doomba> jadew`: need movie?
2019-11-28T01:24:37 < catphish> does USB-C still support plain 2-wire full-speed?
2019-11-28T01:26:49 < qyx> so far I have this https://i.imgur.com/g2iQffo.png and this https://i.imgur.com/1uzyHbO.png, the sitara SiP device expects this https://i.imgur.com/7hVIRPU.png
2019-11-28T01:27:35 < effractur> catphish: it is backwards compatible 
2019-11-28T01:27:36 < qyx> now I am wondering how to get an ID signal from the STUSB1600 device
2019-11-28T01:27:37 < effractur> so yes
2019-11-28T01:27:59 < qyx> it negotiates the power, role and stuff
2019-11-28T01:28:08 < catphish> effractur: lovely :)
2019-11-28T01:28:23 < qyx> but idk how can I notify linux about the negotiated role
2019-11-28T01:29:43 < effractur> catphish: but if i read wikipedia correctly you still need to add some resitors to the CC wire to enable power
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2019-11-28T01:38:00 < catphish> effractur: thanks, i'll be sure to check
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2019-11-28T01:46:51 < qyx> so according to this I need both vbus_detect and id http://e2e.ti.com/support/processors/f/791/p/780722/2969853
2019-11-28T01:48:20 < qyx> also https://src.aw-som.com/awsom/u-boot/commit/6fe7dd3327d552bacf4266d7f1ed074bf98ffb92
2019-11-28T01:48:28 < qyx> so it seems I simply cannot use STUSB1600
2019-11-28T01:53:39 < qyx> TUSB320 has the required signals but lacks p-mos drivers
2019-11-28T01:54:57 < qyx> for the source path I can simply use EN pin of the current-limited power switch
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2019-11-28T02:12:19 -!- mode/##stm32 [-b *!*@128.243.2.33] by englishman
2019-11-28T02:12:32 -!- mode/##stm32 [-b *!*@157.45.38.123] by englishman
2019-11-28T02:12:45 -!- mode/##stm32 [-b *!~irf21k@157.45.49.*] by englishman
2019-11-28T02:13:01 -!- mode/##stm32 [-o englishman] by englishman
2019-11-28T02:13:25 < englishman> so is Laurent in jail
2019-11-28T02:13:39 < englishman> for the crime of going on 4chan while being british
2019-11-28T02:26:39 < kakipr0> https://drive.google.com/file/d/1oWk5WmuXFmrSy_JJdlAIpIn-CxwOzovD/view?usp=sharing
2019-11-28T02:27:30 < qyx> ok so TUSB320 cannot negotiate usb-c pd, ie. there is no chance of >5V appearing on the VBUS
2019-11-28T02:28:26 < qyx> kakipr0: piezo output?
2019-11-28T02:28:43 < kakipr0> 3A driver for a horn
2019-11-28T02:28:49 < qyx> a 3A horn?
2019-11-28T02:29:14 < kakipr0> if it wants 3amps it has 3amps capability
2019-11-28T02:29:25 < qyx> what for?
2019-11-28T02:29:36 < kakipr0> loud beep sound
2019-11-28T02:29:45 < kakipr0> I mean *noticeable
2019-11-28T02:30:03 < kakipr0> in case you want a sound that you cannot miss
2019-11-28T02:31:32 < kakipr0> rj45 has some obstruction there I need to clear
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2019-11-28T02:34:26 < kakipr0> removed XTAL ntc measurement as it's right next to mcu
2019-11-28T02:34:37 < kakipr0> I have one free ADC pin now
2019-11-28T02:36:09 < kakipr0> I plan to mux interrupt lines from modules to that pin
2019-11-28T02:36:18 < kakipr0> so int can be multifunction
2019-11-28T02:38:01 < kakipr0> for modules without or with really simple mcu analog signal could be switched to int line from module
2019-11-28T02:38:28 < kakipr0> ie. some config line setting would change it from interrupt operation to analog output
2019-11-28T02:41:12 < kakipr0> module interface in this project is intended to support various levels of standalone operation of modules
2019-11-28T02:42:08 < kakipr0> from 0 standalone operation to full autonomy with statistical capabilities via i2c
2019-11-28T02:45:06 < kakipr0> modules with only power out can be as uninvolved as just a regulator or a switch
2019-11-28T02:45:34 < kakipr0> where load enable signal is only logic input used
2019-11-28T02:50:04 < kakipr0> 74HC4051 should do
2019-11-28T02:53:25 < Cracki> >full autonomy
2019-11-28T02:53:27 < Cracki> >i2c
2019-11-28T02:54:41 < Cracki> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6ePWBBrWSzo
2019-11-28T02:55:38 < kakipr0> when crash?
2019-11-28T02:56:14 < Cracki> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RCahWWOSxaw
2019-11-28T02:56:51 < Cracki> play chicken, win crushed eggs https://youtu.be/Ujk_5KD5G9o?t=42
2019-11-28T02:57:21 < kakipr0> I wonder how many crashes happen because it's not clear who is driving the car
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2019-11-28T02:57:52 < Cracki> meaning?
2019-11-28T02:58:13 < Cracki> it's easy to make cars not fight a driver that's in control
2019-11-28T02:58:19 < kakipr0> you think car is driving and car thinks you are driving
2019-11-28T02:58:23 < Cracki> it's also easy to make a car force-feedback-guide a driver
2019-11-28T02:58:26 < Cracki> nah
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2019-11-28T02:58:50 < Cracki> hm, I see...
2019-11-28T02:59:02 < Cracki> sensor failure or something
2019-11-28T02:59:10 < kakipr0> I tried it myself with tesla3
2019-11-28T02:59:24 < englishman> qyx: tusb320 has nothing at all to do with usb-pd
2019-11-28T02:59:34 < Cracki> I've heard reports that even when you hold a tesla's steering wheel, it gives you force feedback on its thoughts
2019-11-28T02:59:50 < Cracki> so it would always "drive" but you can overrule it
2019-11-28T03:01:49 < qyx> englishman: thats great
2019-11-28T03:01:54 < kakipr0> I think we did something like touchin the steering wheel twice and it dropped autopilot without clear indication
2019-11-28T03:02:06 < qyx> I am trying to come up with something working without reading the actual specs
2019-11-28T03:02:30 < englishman> kakipr0: was the loud sound and indication not enough
2019-11-28T03:02:44 < Cracki> car makers would be stupid to allow a car to let an accident happen. they probably set it like a gentle driving instructor but not like a co-driver who grabs the wheel in panic because you're obviously having a stroke or something
2019-11-28T03:02:48 < englishman> qyx: better blog about it vaguely until you finally spill the beans
2019-11-28T03:02:50 < kakipr0> no sound englishman
2019-11-28T03:03:40 < kakipr0> only autopilot indicator went off
2019-11-28T03:03:55 < kakipr0> *away
2019-11-28T03:05:03 < qyx> I am blogging verbosely
2019-11-28T03:05:05 < Cracki> how long until it reengaged?
2019-11-28T03:05:14 < englishman> kakipr0: https://i.imgur.com/wrCdRQg.jpg
2019-11-28T03:05:27 < kakipr0> Cracki: it didn't
2019-11-28T03:05:35 < Cracki> what year was that
2019-11-28T03:05:42 < kakipr0> this year
2019-11-28T03:05:48 < Cracki> oy vey
2019-11-28T03:06:37 < Cracki> last week I noticed our public bus drivers got new assistance systems: their seats buzz when cyclists or people appear on its sidewalk-facing side
2019-11-28T03:06:42 < kakipr0> to prove a point the owner corrected the driveline when we were off the road already
2019-11-28T03:06:47 < Cracki> maybe teslas massage your balls when they want your attention
2019-11-28T03:07:02 < Cracki> hmhm
2019-11-28T03:07:10 < kakipr0> teslas give you farts
2019-11-28T03:07:19 < Cracki> is that the newest firmware?
2019-11-28T03:07:26 < kakipr0> assisted farts yes
2019-11-28T03:07:28 < Cracki> sounds like what they had 5 years ago
2019-11-28T03:08:13 < kakipr0> it was actually very amusing
2019-11-28T03:10:18 < kakipr0> englishman: your doge?
2019-11-28T03:10:28 < kakipr0> wait
2019-11-28T03:10:32 < englishman> yeah that's lil'dongs
2019-11-28T03:10:45 < kakipr0> that is katti
2019-11-28T03:11:33 < kakipr0> does that model3 have nvidia or tesla accelerator?
2019-11-28T03:11:42 < englishman> tesla
2019-11-28T03:11:47 < englishman> https://i.imgur.com/QQXLeJ0.jpg
2019-11-28T03:12:33 < kakipr0> debugging assistant
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2019-11-28T03:29:17 < catphish> is it possible to output a simple bit stream to a gpio pin? perhaps using dma and a timer?
2019-11-28T03:29:40 < qyx> fucking kicad
2019-11-28T03:29:49 < qyx> use spi
2019-11-28T03:31:26 < catphish> i hadn't considered spi, but the hardware is already built, so i doubt spi is an option on the right pin
2019-11-28T03:31:42 < rmaw> anyone know the name of these connectors https://i.snipboard.io/10Lobu.jpg ?
2019-11-28T03:31:48 < catphish> that would probably have been ideal though
2019-11-28T03:32:34 < kakipr0> catphish: yes.. question is how fast
2019-11-28T03:33:35 < qyx> rmaw: stacking board connectors
2019-11-28T03:34:48 < catphish> kakipr0: 500kbaud i think
2019-11-28T03:34:55 < catphish> maybe 1M
2019-11-28T03:35:25 < Cracki> pins claim to do that on weakest drive strength
2019-11-28T03:36:03 < zyp> just DMA to GPIOx_BSRR
2019-11-28T03:36:54 < catphish> zyp: yeah, i was just looking at that, i can trigger dma with a timer and have it overwrite GPIO_ODR
2019-11-28T03:37:01 < Cracki> I'd wonder if dma can pull single bits out of a buffer, or if it needs a whole word per symbol
2019-11-28T03:37:20 < Cracki> why odr?
2019-11-28T03:37:21 < catphish> the annoyance is that i need to store at least 1 whole byte for every bit i want to send
2019-11-28T03:37:23 < zyp> catphish, if it's only one pin, better to use BSRR
2019-11-28T03:37:37 < catphish> yeah, i just realised BSRR is much saner for 1 bit
2019-11-28T03:37:40 < rmaw> thanks qyx
2019-11-28T03:37:41 < Cracki> it's not a parallel bus eh
2019-11-28T03:37:51 < zyp> BSRR requires four bytes per bit though :p
2019-11-28T03:37:53 < catphish> but... BSRR is wide, i'd need to store 32 bits per bit :(
2019-11-28T03:38:01 < catphish> what you said :)
2019-11-28T03:38:04 < zyp> so what?
2019-11-28T03:38:31 < Cracki> so... 1 Mbaud -> 4 MByte/s into DMA buffer
2019-11-28T03:38:42 < Cracki> sounds manageable
2019-11-28T03:39:03 < zyp> you could do double buffered DMA with an interrupt that prepares one buffer when DMA is outputting the other
2019-11-28T03:39:18 < catphish> well... i need to transmit 100,000 bits, i can't precompute and store 3.2MB of data
2019-11-28T03:39:36 < Cracki> zyp is smart, do what he says :P
2019-11-28T03:39:43 < catphish> but i can probably stay ahead in a ring buffer or similar
2019-11-28T03:39:54 < zyp> yeah
2019-11-28T03:40:03 < Cracki> keep 100kbits around, unpack as needed
2019-11-28T03:40:43 < zyp> my ws2812b code is using DMA to output 24 bits at a time, and then I can update the DMA buffer in between
2019-11-28T03:41:06 < catphish> the 100kbit is computed from only 5,632 bytes of data anyway
2019-11-28T03:41:36 < Cracki> ah, you're working on floppy writing
2019-11-28T03:41:41 < catphish> yep
2019-11-28T03:41:51 < zyp> in that case you can do both steps at once
2019-11-28T03:41:54 < catphish> i've written a mass storage controller, and reading disks works great now
2019-11-28T03:42:04 < Cracki> so it's not really a serial output, it's a pulse output
2019-11-28T03:42:05 < catphish> just starting to look at writing them
2019-11-28T03:42:12 < zyp> expand a bit into pulses and encode the pulses right into the dma buffer
2019-11-28T03:43:08 < catphish> Cracki: it's designed so that it's both :)
2019-11-28T03:43:20 < Cracki> tbh I'd control the timer itself and make it generate these pulses when they're due, instead of "rasterizing" this "vector format"
2019-11-28T03:43:38 < zyp> that might be a better approach
2019-11-28T03:43:46 < Cracki> can also be more complicated
2019-11-28T03:43:55 < Cracki> an option anyway
2019-11-28T03:44:04 < zyp> I don't know enough about how it's supposed to work to say :)
2019-11-28T03:44:20 < catphish> back in the days when these drives were used by real computers, they considered it to be a serial stream
2019-11-28T03:44:22 < Cracki> afaik data rate is about 250/500/1000 kbaud anyway
2019-11-28T03:44:38 < kakipr0> catphish: why don't you use SPI?
2019-11-28T03:44:44 < kakipr0> instead of GPIO
2019-11-28T03:44:49 < Cracki> bodge wires :D
2019-11-28T03:44:55 < catphish> kakipr0: honestly, right now, because wiring
2019-11-28T03:45:15 < kakipr0> yeah man
2019-11-28T03:46:01 < catphish> storing bits as timing between pulses requires less data than 32 bits per bit
2019-11-28T03:46:04 < kakipr0> time to null>
2019-11-28T03:47:44 < catphish> so 1,0,1 would be stored as 2 (the time between the '1' pulses), 1,0,0,1 would be stored as 3, etc
2019-11-28T03:48:02 < Cracki> you aren't oversampling that much. average period is a single digit number
2019-11-28T03:48:14 < catphish> this requires one byte per 2 bits (worst case), one byte per 4 bits (best case)
2019-11-28T03:48:23 < Cracki> so I'd expect maybe one byte per symbol for timing
2019-11-28T03:48:27 < Cracki> ah
2019-11-28T03:48:41 < catphish> there's no oversampling at all when writing
2019-11-28T03:49:28 < Cracki> in this case i'd choose unpacking for DMA to BSRR too. controlling timer at this rate sounds more trouble
2019-11-28T03:49:48 < catphish> so, the process for reading is measure the time between pulses, quantize it to the nearest 2us period, and you know how many "zeros" came before the least "one", this works perfectly
2019-11-28T03:50:51 < catphish> much easier then trying to actually sync to the incoming bit rate
2019-11-28T03:51:12 < qyx> fuk I am desperate
2019-11-28T03:51:18 < qyx> wtf is kicad doing
2019-11-28T03:51:22 < qyx> I am editing unit B
2019-11-28T03:51:27 < qyx> and it deletes things from unit C
2019-11-28T03:51:31 < qyx> I switch back to unit C
2019-11-28T03:51:34 < catphish> but writing is a totally different matter, i provide the self clocking data stream
2019-11-28T03:51:36 < qyx> add that fucking rectangle back
2019-11-28T03:51:44 < qyx> and it appears in unit A instead
2019-11-28T03:51:50 < catphish> in theory this should be much simpler, but in reality it's a hassle
2019-11-28T03:51:59 < Cracki> open sores contain bugs
2019-11-28T03:52:16 < catphish> qyx: try paying for your software :)
2019-11-28T03:52:31 < Cracki> yeah do the unpacking, let dma run at a fixed 1 MHz or something
2019-11-28T03:52:50 < Cracki> I think dma can give you interrupts at watermarks so you can refill the buffer
2019-11-28T03:53:04 < catphish> Cracki: that seems sane, then i just need to keep ahead of the dma process
2019-11-28T03:53:11 < catphish> and know when to stop it
2019-11-28T03:53:26 < zyp> uh
2019-11-28T03:53:28 < Cracki> "when" the refilling interrupt has no more (packed) data.
2019-11-28T03:53:37 < zyp> why wouldn't you use a timer?
2019-11-28T03:53:43 < Cracki> then buffer runs dry and you're done.
2019-11-28T03:54:34 < catphish> i'm actually erring more towards using a timer with a pwm output
2019-11-28T03:55:05 < zyp> if I understood the description right, the obvious solution here seems to be a timer with CC set to 1 (or whatever) and DMA to ARR
2019-11-28T03:55:13 < catphish> with the "on" period fixed, and the "off" period varied
2019-11-28T03:55:20 < zyp> exactly
2019-11-28T03:55:36 < zyp> CC sets the on period, ARR sets the full period (on + off)
2019-11-28T03:55:49 < Cracki> does a pulse change output polarity, or is it actually a pulse emitted?
2019-11-28T03:55:54 < Cracki> (what does the drive expect)
2019-11-28T03:55:57 < catphish> it's actually slow enough that i can load ARR every cycle without even needing DMA
2019-11-28T03:56:25 < catphish> Cracki: the pulse changes the drive head polarity
2019-11-28T03:56:42 < Cracki> nevermind
2019-11-28T03:56:43 < catphish> on every rising edge
2019-11-28T03:56:59 < Cracki> I understand reading, not sure about writing
2019-11-28T03:57:03 < zyp> just remember to use preload :)
2019-11-28T03:57:32 < catphish> Cracki: it's designed so that the pulse is 1 bit wide, and there's never 2 "1" bits in a row
2019-11-28T03:57:32 < Cracki> reading gives a pulse when magnetization reverses, so decoding this MFM looks at pulses or rising edges only.
2019-11-28T03:57:46 < Cracki> to write, I'd expect a level representation to the drive.
2019-11-28T03:57:58 < Cracki> ok
2019-11-28T03:58:08 < catphish> so it looks like serial data, even though it's pulses
2019-11-28T03:58:40 < Cracki> so the write head really flips its magnetic field every time it gets a rising edge (pulse)? hmhmhm
2019-11-28T03:58:48 < catphish> reading and writing both use a pulse on reversing magnetic polarity
2019-11-28T03:58:52 < catphish> the pulse is 2us long
2019-11-28T03:59:19 < catphish> there's never 2 in a row, so there's always at least 2us between each
2019-11-28T03:59:36 < Cracki> sounds like a cheap way to copy floppies: wire those pulse lines together, set one drive to read and the other to write
2019-11-28T03:59:47 < catphish> Cracki: yes, that would work
2019-11-28T04:00:02 < Cracki> dma would write to ARR...
2019-11-28T04:00:16 < Cracki> so you'd need to prepare a buffer of 16-bit values
2019-11-28T04:00:26 < catphish> yeah, i can write ARR with DMA, but actually i might just use a busy loop for now
2019-11-28T04:00:28 < Cracki> unless dma can read 8 and write 16
2019-11-28T04:00:37 < Cracki> busy loop! hm
2019-11-28T04:00:39 < kakinull> movie
2019-11-28T04:00:46 < kakinull> I need a flick now
2019-11-28T04:00:51 < Cracki> joker 2019?
2019-11-28T04:01:04 < kakinull> no
2019-11-28T04:01:44 < Cracki> ghost in the shell maybe?
2019-11-28T04:01:53 < Cracki> there isn't just the first one and its remake
2019-11-28T04:02:11 < kakinull> I have seen both
2019-11-28T04:02:17 < catphish> ghost in the shell series then :)
2019-11-28T04:02:25 < Cracki> maybe The Dark Crystal
2019-11-28T04:02:37 < catphish> detective pikachu
2019-11-28T04:02:49 < catphish> because you want to be happy :)
2019-11-28T04:02:52 < Cracki> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ghost_in_the_Shell:_The_New_Movie
2019-11-28T04:03:13 < catphish> i'm not sure i've seen that one
2019-11-28T04:03:18 < Cracki> me neither
2019-11-28T04:03:27 < Cracki> there are a few
2019-11-28T04:03:49 < Cracki> "Arise" came before it
2019-11-28T04:03:52 < catphish> my read code just watches TIM2->SR in a loop to see when CCR is populated
2019-11-28T04:03:59 < catphish> i imagine my write code can do the same for now
2019-11-28T04:04:06 < Cracki> what's SR again
2019-11-28T04:04:14 < catphish> status register
2019-11-28T04:04:22 < Cracki> right, for overflow
2019-11-28T04:04:40 < Cracki> you'd have to detect that and set it within the shortest ARR it could ever assume
2019-11-28T04:04:46 < catphish> yeah, every time it overflows, i can manually load in a new value to ARR
2019-11-28T04:04:52 < catphish> i have 4us to do so
2019-11-28T04:04:58 < catphish> which is pretty long really
2019-11-28T04:04:58 < Cracki> right
2019-11-28T04:05:13 < catphish> dma is doubtless better
2019-11-28T04:05:14 < Cracki> BUT that means no other interrupts, or none that run that long
2019-11-28T04:05:29 < Cracki> dma gives you some breathing room
2019-11-28T04:06:21 < catphish> no-dma lets me pre-compute the whole MFM track though
2019-11-28T04:06:37 < Cracki> it does?
2019-11-28T04:06:54 < Cracki> ah because you can store it as bits, and decode each bit as needed
2019-11-28T04:07:00 < catphish> yeah
2019-11-28T04:07:12 < Cracki> is that a denser repr than byte-per-pulse?
2019-11-28T04:07:20 < Cracki> should be, you said pulse per 2-4 bits
2019-11-28T04:07:43 < catphish> yeah, but byte per pulse is a good option too if it fits in ram
2019-11-28T04:08:08 < Cracki> 100 kbit is 12.5 kB. you said 56xx bytes earlier
2019-11-28T04:08:09 < catphish> i'll have a play anyway, thanks for the input :)
2019-11-28T04:08:28 < kakinull> Cracki: 1982?
2019-11-28T04:08:39 < Cracki> 1984?
2019-11-28T04:08:42 < Cracki> what's in 82
2019-11-28T04:09:02 < catphish> 56xx bytes is the actual data, on top of that is metadata, then the mfm process doubles it
2019-11-28T04:09:10 < Cracki> 5632 bytes of data, how did that happen
2019-11-28T04:09:17 < Cracki> that's one track?
2019-11-28T04:09:25 < Cracki> one track's worth of pulses?
2019-11-28T04:09:26 < catphish> 512 bytes per sector, 11 sectors per track
2019-11-28T04:09:31 < Cracki> ah! payload
2019-11-28T04:09:46 < Cracki> I'd decode that on the fly :>
2019-11-28T04:09:47 < catphish> (512 * 11 + metadata) * 2
2019-11-28T04:09:59 < Cracki> less intermediate "trash" lying around
2019-11-28T04:10:01 < catphish> this is my read code https://github.com/catphish/flex-floppy/blob/usb-mass-storage/floppy.c#L123
2019-11-28T04:10:52 < kakinull> Cracki: the dark crystal
2019-11-28T04:11:05 < Cracki> ah. there's an old film and a 2019 remake
2019-11-28T04:11:10 < Cracki> haven't compared them yet
2019-11-28T04:11:55 < Cracki> tim2 counts to 50e6?
2019-11-28T04:12:10 < catphish> Cracki: it does, it's 32 bit
2019-11-28T04:12:11 < Cracki> are you running at 50/75/100 mhz or something?
2019-11-28T04:12:15 < catphish> 80mhz
2019-11-28T04:12:26 < catphish> the comment is wrong :)
2019-11-28T04:12:32 < Cracki> says 1-second timeout there, is that equiv to CNT=50e6?
2019-11-28T04:12:34 < Cracki> ic
2019-11-28T04:12:42 < catphish> i made the timeout shorter and didnt update it
2019-11-28T04:12:49 < catphish> it was 80,000,000 before
2019-11-28T04:14:35 < Cracki> I have AN3041 in front of me. it talks about data unpacking when the dma's fifo is enabled
2019-11-28T04:14:51 < catphish> so, i will likely prepare a full track with all the data and metadata packed togeter, then generate the extra mfm bits on the fly
2019-11-28T04:14:51 < Cracki> (F2/4/7)
2019-11-28T04:15:52 < catphish> i dont see AN3041
2019-11-28T04:16:01 < Cracki> 4031*
2019-11-28T04:16:19 < Cracki> it can't unpack bits to words tho :>
2019-11-28T04:16:59 < catphish> i'll try with the timer and no dma first, if it works, i'll consider adding dma later
2019-11-28T04:17:04 < Cracki> and I don't see yet that it would do any padding, only rearranging bytes
2019-11-28T04:17:13 < Cracki> timer and polling sounds just fine
2019-11-28T04:18:09 < catphish> the mfm encoding is simple enough to calculate on the fly, and convert to a timing
2019-11-28T04:18:25 < catphish> http://lclevy.free.fr/adflib/adf_info.html#p21
2019-11-28T04:19:01 < catphish> just requires some ongoing state
2019-11-28T04:22:14 < catphish> i should sleep now though, i'll write the encoder tomorrow, and first i have to actually prepare the track with its data and metadata, it's a bit messy the way they split data bytes into odd and even bits
2019-11-28T04:22:55 < Cracki> for mfm? sounds weird
2019-11-28T04:23:22 < kakinull> Another World - Another Time - In The Age of Wonder
2019-11-28T04:23:43 < catphish> well, what they do is to take the data, delete all the even bits, and fill them with the MFM bits instead
2019-11-28T04:23:52 < Cracki> odd/even is because they consider pulses to be bits
2019-11-28T04:24:00 < Cracki> and pulses can be in the first or second half of a symbol
2019-11-28T04:24:15 < Cracki> odd/even could just as well be called first/second half of symbol
2019-11-28T04:24:30 < catphish> then when that's done, they take the data again, delete all the odd bits, and fill the gaps with the MFM bits
2019-11-28T04:24:31 < Cracki> you can calculate mfm different ways
2019-11-28T04:24:51 < Cracki> there are "obvious" ways that don't need that kind of magic fuckery
2019-11-28T04:25:22 < catphish> i think they do this because you can decode it fast
2019-11-28T04:25:34 < kakinull> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hfUSyoJcbxU This land was green and good - Until The Crystal cracked
2019-11-28T04:25:39 < catphish> just delete the MFM padding bits, then zip the data together
2019-11-28T04:25:59 < Cracki> trippy
2019-11-28T04:26:15 < Cracki> skeksis-occupied government
2019-11-28T04:26:23 < kakinull> this movie starts with chorus from my pump music favourite
2019-11-28T04:26:50 < kakinull> 1982 one none of that new trash
2019-11-28T04:27:12 < kakinull> Cracki: have you seen heavy metal?
2019-11-28T04:27:34 < kakinull> animation classic
2019-11-28T04:27:35 < Cracki> not sure. I've seen parts of it that I'm sure of.
2019-11-28T04:28:05 < Cracki> there are movies I'm not sure I ever watched whole
2019-11-28T04:29:32 < kakinull> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Lu_UB1Lus6I trailer
2019-11-28T04:30:10 < kakinull> I think it started with glowing green ball flying to a house or something
2019-11-28T04:31:02 < Cracki> yeah everyone knows the scene with the car from orbit
2019-11-28T04:31:51 < kakinull> I think the movie didn't have one storyline
2019-11-28T04:32:30 < Cracki> ooh whips! where there's a whip there's a way
2019-11-28T04:33:00 < catphish> sleep time now :)
2019-11-28T04:33:03 < Cracki> looks very fragmented indeed
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2019-11-28T04:35:50 < Cracki> 90s music...
2019-11-28T04:36:18 < Cracki> seems like the 10s have very little that compares
2019-11-28T04:36:46 < Cracki> dissonance rules. that must be intentional subversion.
2019-11-28T04:36:52 < kakinull> muskies car in space was portraited just like the car in orbit scene
2019-11-28T04:37:07 < kakinull> I though I had seen it before
2019-11-28T04:38:52 < kakinull> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ELUP-oZQKM4
2019-11-28T04:45:37 < kakinull> Today once more they will replenish themselfs - Cheat death again - Through the power of their source - The Crystal
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2019-11-28T05:13:22 < aandrew> found a nice mosfet: https://media.digikey.com/pdf/Data%20Sheets/Honeywell%20PDFs/HTNFET.pdf
2019-11-28T05:13:58 < aandrew> digikey lists unit pricing at $625 each. If you buy in qty10 it drops to $605
2019-11-28T05:16:54 < Cracki> some crane crashed on a google building... looks like they took pins out of the structure when they shouldn't have https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cexN2-T6dxY
2019-11-28T05:17:19 < Cracki> 600 buck mosfet?
2019-11-28T05:17:26 < Cracki> is that for kiloamps or something
2019-11-28T05:17:38 < aandrew> Cracki: that's the funniest part. Id: TBD.
2019-11-28T05:17:48 < Cracki> says 1 amp continuous at least
2019-11-28T05:17:54 < Cracki> I see no crazy voltages either
2019-11-28T05:18:15 < Cracki> >nuclear reactor
2019-11-28T05:18:20 < Cracki> must be the extra certification and shit
2019-11-28T05:18:27 < Cracki> maybe radiation hardened
2019-11-28T05:18:39 < aandrew> yeah it's SoI and high-rel
2019-11-28T05:18:39 < Cracki> oh, nice temp range
2019-11-28T05:18:52 < aandrew> Typically, parts will operate at +300°C up to a year
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2019-11-28T05:19:39 < Cracki> if anyone bought those by the reel, I'm sure the price would drop
2019-11-28T05:20:14 < Cracki> then they'd be forced to automate testing instead of handling them individually as I suspect
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2019-11-28T05:20:52 < Cracki> ah, abs max ratings tbd
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2019-11-28T05:45:34 < Cracki> (oct 18 2019) Seattle Police on Thursday confirmed they opened a criminal investigation into the incident
2019-11-28T05:45:44 < Cracki> good. a 100k fine is pissing in the wine
2019-11-28T05:45:45 < Cracki> wind
2019-11-28T05:45:52 < aandrew> what's that about
2019-11-28T05:47:14 < Cracki> https://eu.usatoday.com/story/news/nation/2019/10/17/seattle-crane-collapse-investigation-companies-fined-avoidable-accident/4018256002/
2019-11-28T05:47:32 < Cracki> crane tipped over because these fucking idiots pulled the pins all at once, instead of once per segment
2019-11-28T05:48:04 < Cracki> the AvE video a dozen lines up has some analysis right after the incident
2019-11-28T05:48:54 < Cracki> I understand it's a time saver but you mustn't do that if the thing tipping over can hit *anything* important
2019-11-28T05:50:57 < Cracki> how is that even a time saver. someone has to be inside the structure to attach each segment to the dismantling crane
2019-11-28T05:51:12 < Cracki> they're lying to cover their asses
2019-11-28T05:54:04 < aandrew> ah, I'll read up in a bit
2019-11-28T05:54:09 < sync> it's a timesaver because driving out those pins is a pain in the ass
2019-11-28T05:54:26 < sync> and if you only have to do it once the lifing goes quicker
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2019-11-28T06:05:11 < jadew`> lol @ paypal
2019-11-28T06:06:04 < jadew`> I wanted to send some money to a family member: my balance was in USD, they would have received USD too, paypal defaulted to me sending EUR and the recipient would have gotten USD
2019-11-28T06:06:26 < jadew`> all of that, with "the conversion rate includes a conversion fee"
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2019-11-28T06:13:26 < aandrew> ave sounds different in this video
2019-11-28T06:14:36 < Cracki> sync, it's the same work either way, I don't see it
2019-11-28T06:14:50 < kakinull> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AIrH01N9AsE
2019-11-28T06:15:47 < Cracki> ave toned it down for a somber situation
2019-11-28T06:16:08 < aandrew> yeah for sure
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2019-11-28T06:17:16 < jadew`> what happened?
2019-11-28T06:17:18 < jadew`> link?
2019-11-28T06:17:22 < Cracki> hm, time saver for the crane operator maybe, if driving out eight pins per segment takes longer than moving a segment
2019-11-28T06:17:28 < jadew`> and why is everyone suddenly watching machining channels?
2019-11-28T06:17:29 < Cracki> back in april a crane collapsed in boston
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2019-11-28T06:17:47 < Cracki> in october AvE made a video, which yt decided to show me _now_
2019-11-28T06:18:04 < Cracki> AvE is a cheeky bugger. it's entertainment.
2019-11-28T06:18:16 < Cracki> also flying metal chips is porn
2019-11-28T06:18:33 < Cracki> you want dirt moving and tree pushing porn instead?
2019-11-28T06:18:43 < Cracki> or big purring cats?
2019-11-28T06:19:16 < jadew`> I like the machining stuff more, because I'm aspiring to have my own lathe and mill at some point
2019-11-28T06:19:30 < jadew`> not sure about the tree pushing stuff
2019-11-28T06:19:54 < jadew`> I guess I'd like to have that much land in my backyard that I have to use heavy machinery to trim the grass
2019-11-28T06:20:07 < aandrew> heh
2019-11-28T06:20:16 < aandrew> wouldn't you have to kick the gypsys out first?
2019-11-28T06:20:17 < Cracki> trees, dirt, also a golden retriever https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCUujfNBK9uv3cIW-P5PX7vA/videos?view=0&sort=p&flow=grid
2019-11-28T06:20:24 < Cracki> property maintenance
2019-11-28T06:20:28 < Cracki> lol
2019-11-28T06:20:31 < jadew`> aandrew, I'm sure those machines can do that too
2019-11-28T06:20:58 < Cracki> you can dig a big pit
2019-11-28T06:21:09 < Cracki> or get a cargo container
2019-11-28T06:21:23 < Cracki> the dude made his own wood-fired hot tub
2019-11-28T06:21:33 < Cracki> and a container castle
2019-11-28T06:21:57 < jadew`> so... like a big boiling pot, for humans?
2019-11-28T06:22:13 < Cracki> almost. water is boiled beside the pool
2019-11-28T06:22:33 < Cracki> I guess it turns into steam and is pushed back down under the surface
2019-11-28T06:22:52 < Cracki> a water pump must be involved
2019-11-28T06:25:13 < Cracki> his steadycams don't keep level very well. places can look very uphill/downhill even when they aren't. lens distortion helps with that impression.
2019-11-28T06:26:33 < Cracki> imho lens distortion in any kind of consumer camera is inexcusable. it can be corrected decently in software/silicon even when the optics aren't fixed like in those gopro-type things (focus, zoom)
2019-11-28T06:27:42 < jadew`> brb
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2019-11-28T06:51:09 < jadew> why is python so loved?
2019-11-28T06:51:32 < jadew> all I know about it is that I hate its syntax
2019-11-28T06:51:55 < jadew> I find the fact that spaces are part of it to be absolutely retarded
2019-11-28T06:52:37 < jadew> other than that, I know it's dynamically typed and that it has lots of C modules you can import, that are usually garbage
2019-11-28T06:52:51 < Cracki> it's better than the alternatives
2019-11-28T06:53:09 < jadew> which alternatives and in what ways?
2019-11-28T06:53:15 < Cracki> the biggest selling points: it's rock solid, it has a huge stdlib, and looks tame enough (no weird line noise)
2019-11-28T06:53:28 < Cracki> alternatives would be php, js, ruby, lua, tcl, ...
2019-11-28T06:53:40 < jadew> is it really better tho?
2019-11-28T06:53:46 < Cracki> you tell me
2019-11-28T06:53:56 < jadew> js with node also has a huge collection of libraries
2019-11-28T06:54:14 < Cracki> it forces you to indent, spaces or tabs doesn't matter so long as it's consistent
2019-11-28T06:54:21 < Cracki> so yes, if you don't like that, it's a downside
2019-11-28T06:54:26 < Cracki> but you weigh that against the upsides
2019-11-28T06:54:47 < Cracki> javascript is overrun by morons
2019-11-28T06:55:03 < Cracki> people who haven't managed to break out of their fucking browser
2019-11-28T06:55:17 < Cracki> python is far enough away from web wankery.
2019-11-28T06:55:35 < Cracki> anything that is web wankery is overrun by web wankers
2019-11-28T06:55:47 < jadew> I kinda agree to that
2019-11-28T06:56:03 < jadew> I'd say typescript is a notable exception
2019-11-28T06:56:08 < Cracki> I'd use javascript for general scripting if it had some actual syntax evolution to it
2019-11-28T06:56:14 < Cracki> and a decent stdlib that isn't crazy
2019-11-28T06:56:29 < Cracki> python also has one canonical implementation. you don't need to make a hard decision.
2019-11-28T06:57:19 < aandrew> jadew: that's my feeling toward python as well. I just can't get into it because of the fucking spaces as syntax
2019-11-28T06:57:23 < Cracki> I'd want stuff like "for thing in list" in js. and list comprehensions. and a bunch of other stuff.
2019-11-28T06:57:30 < aandrew> I think I'd have an easier time with lua to be honest
2019-11-28T06:57:41 < Cracki> believe me I'd love to have braces instead of indentation in python
2019-11-28T06:57:49 < Cracki> that'd enable statement-capable lambdas
2019-11-28T06:58:05 < Cracki> that lack of statement-capable lambdas in python is my biggest gripe with it
2019-11-28T06:58:18 < jadew> aandrew, right, if it wasn't for that, I'd probably pick it up too
2019-11-28T06:58:21 < Cracki> lua has even less syntax
2019-11-28T06:58:25 < jadew> but it's such a huge turn off
2019-11-28T06:58:38 < aandrew> lua has the advantage that it's *tiny* and easily embeddable
2019-11-28T06:58:44 < jadew> and it casts doubt on the competency of whoever is in charge of the language
2019-11-28T06:58:54 < aandrew> so putting lua interpreters in your embedded shit isn't out of the question
2019-11-28T06:58:58 < Cracki> I've fucked with lua a bit on some esp1488. tolerable but feels more fragile and less evolved.
2019-11-28T06:59:22 < Cracki> python is embeddable (in other programs) but it's mostly supposed to stand alone
2019-11-28T06:59:43 < jadew> I used to use js as a scripting platform for software
2019-11-28T06:59:47 < jadew> worked extremely well
2019-11-28T07:00:16 < Cracki> microsoft with its scripting didn't prevail. they had VBS and jscript.
2019-11-28T07:00:45 < jadew> they had too many options
2019-11-28T07:01:03 < jadew> still do
2019-11-28T07:01:30 < Cracki> if you knew python, you'd know what other languages lack
2019-11-28T07:01:39 < Cracki> they would have to grow, it's not just python that needs to grow
2019-11-28T07:02:00 < jadew> Cracki, well, I know what other languages lack
2019-11-28T07:02:15 < jadew> but I don't see the attraction to python
2019-11-28T07:02:21 < Cracki> libraries
2019-11-28T07:02:23 < jadew> I see it somewhat like VB
2019-11-28T07:02:31 < Cracki> huge ecosystem
2019-11-28T07:02:37 < jadew> VB used to be used by noobs all over
2019-11-28T07:02:40 < Cracki> rock solid reference implementation
2019-11-28T07:02:45 < jadew> I have a similar feeling about python
2019-11-28T07:03:04 < Cracki> python has huge mountains of training material
2019-11-28T07:03:09 < Cracki> good stuff even
2019-11-28T07:03:20 < jadew> Cracki, yeah, the large number of libraries could come in handy
2019-11-28T07:03:25 < Cracki> academia jumped on it, produced lots of it
2019-11-28T07:03:27 < jadew> but then... why am I not using node with ts?
2019-11-28T07:03:42 < Cracki> is node even debuggable
2019-11-28T07:03:47 < jadew> yeah
2019-11-28T07:03:50 < Cracki> well node is the event shit library
2019-11-28T07:03:55 < Cracki> js is whatever jit vm you pick
2019-11-28T07:04:18 < jadew> yeah, but node comes with npm, which gives you access to a huge library of stuff
2019-11-28T07:04:43 < Cracki> people might be turned off by javascript's "weird" notion of objects. there were no classes up until recently.
2019-11-28T07:04:53 < Cracki> quality
2019-11-28T07:04:55 < Cracki> npm is full of shit
2019-11-28T07:04:56 < jadew> yeah, you get classes in TS
2019-11-28T07:05:11 < Cracki> python actually has a ton of useful libraries for research and development, academia, etc
2019-11-28T07:05:13 < jadew> you get classes and you get inheritance
2019-11-28T07:05:14 < Cracki> "killer apps"
2019-11-28T07:05:24 < jadew> and I even implemented virutal inheritance, to solve the diamond problem
2019-11-28T07:05:28 < jadew> it's very flexible
2019-11-28T07:05:40 < Cracki> ruby's killer app was rails. js's killer app is node. python's killer apps are too many to count.
2019-11-28T07:05:54 < jadew> I see
2019-11-28T07:05:59 < Cracki> TS is niche and new
2019-11-28T07:06:04 < Cracki> python has been around since the 90s
2019-11-28T07:06:14 < jadew> oh well, maybe I'll get over the spaces thing and give it a real try
2019-11-28T07:06:16 < Cracki> it has grown, and it keeps a steady user base. it's not a fad.
2019-11-28T07:06:28 < jadew> but it feels like lowering myself into the sewers
2019-11-28T07:06:44 < Cracki> I would love to give you a way to avoid the whitespace syntax... but python isn't ready for that
2019-11-28T07:07:02 < Cracki> I doubt anyone will fork it and add braces like that
2019-11-28T07:07:13 < jadew> why not? should be real easy
2019-11-28T07:07:14 < Cracki> likely someone will make it a begin/end
2019-11-28T07:07:21 < jadew> lol
2019-11-28T07:07:22 < Cracki> sure, technically easy
2019-11-28T07:07:37 < Cracki> but you're never gonna get to upstream that. they refuse to use braces.
2019-11-28T07:08:12 < Cracki> and the effort of maintaining something in parallel needs a real justification
2019-11-28T07:08:22 < Cracki> and too few people _have_ a real justification for this kind of feature
2019-11-28T07:08:33 < Cracki> most people just see "ugh indentation let me write my fucking fortran"
2019-11-28T07:08:48 < Cracki> very few see the point in passing lambdas around
2019-11-28T07:08:55 < Cracki> you might see it, node does that all the time
2019-11-28T07:09:08 < Cracki> THAT is what python can't do. it's not about the fucking indentation
2019-11-28T07:09:18 < jadew> it's not just about lambdas, it simply caters to a different coding style
2019-11-28T07:09:41 < Cracki> in python you have to write a procedure and give it a name so you can pass that, you can't just put the literal in there
2019-11-28T07:09:50 < Cracki> different how
2019-11-28T07:10:16 < Cracki> I want to explore your prejudices
2019-11-28T07:10:17 < jadew> just like { on the same line and on a line of its own
2019-11-28T07:10:36 < Cracki> same
2019-11-28T07:10:40 < jadew> some people are used to write code a certain way, because their brains can parse it better that way
2019-11-28T07:10:52 < Cracki> the visual distinction of blocks is different, but it is there
2019-11-28T07:11:04 < jadew> if you force their hand to do it a different way, just because, you're doing yourself a disservice
2019-11-28T07:11:17 < Cracki> they're doing noobs a SERVICE
2019-11-28T07:11:25 < Cracki> by forcing them into a decent style
2019-11-28T07:11:33 < jadew> yeah, but noobs are stupid and they're not supposed to remain noobs forever
2019-11-28T07:11:48 < jadew> they're inconsequential
2019-11-28T07:11:49 < Cracki> yeah well wanting it doesn't make it so
2019-11-28T07:11:53 < Cracki> they found a way to make it so
2019-11-28T07:12:01 < Cracki> noobs multiply, they don't grow out of it
2019-11-28T07:12:08 < Cracki> you have to prevent their formation
2019-11-28T07:12:33 < Cracki> the least they did is make the code _a little_ more readable by force
2019-11-28T07:13:08 < Cracki> there are prettyprinters for bracy languages so this is a moot point really
2019-11-28T07:13:12 < jadew> and by doing that, they made it painful for advanced programmers
2019-11-28T07:13:32 < Cracki> it inconvenient
2019-11-28T07:13:41 < Cracki> I wouldn't say painful
2019-11-28T07:13:47 < jadew> here's the thing
2019-11-28T07:13:51 < jadew> a noob wouldn't care either way
2019-11-28T07:13:58 < jadew> he's new.. he doesn't know what's what
2019-11-28T07:14:03 < Cracki> it doesn't prevent me from accomplishing something, it's just syntax
2019-11-28T07:14:26 < jadew> it was successful in preventing me from using it for a very long time
2019-11-28T07:14:33 < jadew> (and others)
2019-11-28T07:14:58 < Cracki> ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
2019-11-28T07:15:01 < jadew> that must be a very strong argument for braces
2019-11-28T07:15:11 < Cracki> maybe peer pressure will eventually work on you
2019-11-28T07:15:30 < jadew> I want to try it out, but I have alternatives
2019-11-28T07:15:40 < jadew> I mean... I did try it at some point, gave it a shot
2019-11-28T07:15:48 < jadew> but I quickly decided I hate it
2019-11-28T07:15:52 < Cracki> great. meanwhile lots of good stuff is being written (coincidentally) in python.
2019-11-28T07:16:07 < Cracki> so how do you do your random scripting, shell scripts?
2019-11-28T07:16:19 < Cracki> or straight to c++?
2019-11-28T07:16:23 < Cracki> c#?
2019-11-28T07:16:44 < jadew> no, I use js, php, perl sometimes when I want a challenge
2019-11-28T07:17:10 < jadew> or even ps as of late
2019-11-28T07:17:16 < Cracki> ok, introduce me to js
2019-11-28T07:17:22 < Cracki> how do I list a directory
2019-11-28T07:17:23 < jadew> but I struggle with both perl and ps
2019-11-28T07:17:30 < Cracki> how do I open and read a file line by line
2019-11-28T07:17:50 < jadew> you import fs
2019-11-28T07:17:53 < Cracki> how do I manipulate 2d array data, does js have anything like numpy
2019-11-28T07:18:12 < Cracki> does js have distinc integer and floating point types already?
2019-11-28T07:18:33 < Cracki> how are imports done in js?
2019-11-28T07:18:50 < jadew> const fs = require('fs');
2019-11-28T07:19:04 < jadew> then you have whatever you need under fs.
2019-11-28T07:19:19 < Cracki> i can live with the ugliness of that line
2019-11-28T07:19:41 < jadew> in typescript you get nicer stuff
2019-11-28T07:19:48 < jadew> you can just import a function
2019-11-28T07:19:55 < Cracki> where would I go to learn this, do I have to ask for "serverside" to find this, even though my computer isn't a server?
2019-11-28T07:20:13 < jadew> import { readSync } from 'fs';
2019-11-28T07:20:40 < jadew> Cracki, there are lots of tutorials out there, you'd focus on node.js in this case
2019-11-28T07:20:49 < Cracki> does nodejs support imperative programming at all? or is it all callbacks being churned through an event loop?
2019-11-28T07:21:06 < jadew> it normally runs synchronously, so yes
2019-11-28T07:21:19 < jadew> you go async tho, if you want to save some time
2019-11-28T07:21:52 < jadew> so you can either do fs.readFileSync('file')
2019-11-28T07:21:58 < Cracki> does this have an interactive prompt like a browser's js console, but on the commandline, where I can type stuff into and it runs?
2019-11-28T07:22:06 < jadew> or fs.readFile() and pass a callback for when the file is read
2019-11-28T07:22:19 < jadew> or you can pipe the contents
2019-11-28T07:22:30 < jadew> Cracki, of course
2019-11-28T07:22:31 < Cracki> does it represent/print data/objects in a useful way or does it just say something dumb like {Object]
2019-11-28T07:22:56 < jadew> yeah, you can browse them when you output them to the console
2019-11-28T07:23:14 < Cracki> by console I mean terminal
2019-11-28T07:23:19 < Cracki> I want no browser involved
2019-11-28T07:23:41 < jadew> you can print them to the terminal too, but if you're debugging in an IDE, the console will allow you to browse them
2019-11-28T07:23:46 < jadew> so it doesn't print the whole structure
2019-11-28T07:24:12 < Cracki> my use for python is as a quick to start interpreter
2019-11-28T07:25:08 < Cracki> if an "IDE" asks me to save a fucking file for a quick oneliner, I will remove it from my system
2019-11-28T07:25:58 < Cracki> I'll give this a look https://2ality.com/2011/12/nodejs-shell-scripting.html
2019-11-28T07:27:07 < Cracki> wait so... readFile and readFileSync exist, but they're both just functions, they don't create an object
2019-11-28T07:27:20 < Cracki> the sync variant returns a string containing the whole file
2019-11-28T07:27:25 < jadew> Cracki, you can do interactive mode with node
2019-11-28T07:27:27 < jadew> node -i
2019-11-28T07:27:34 < Cracki> and the async version... still calls a callback with the whole fucking file?
2019-11-28T07:27:35 < jadew> and you get to type js and get the output right away
2019-11-28T07:27:55 < jadew> Cracki, if you want to, you can also pipe a file to a function
2019-11-28T07:28:22 < Cracki> I see there's a "readline". that may save it from my criticism, or not.
2019-11-28T07:28:29 < jadew> I don't know if there's any of that fopen feof, etc
2019-11-28T07:28:33 < Cracki> >Asynchronously reads the entire contents of a file
2019-11-28T07:28:37 < Cracki> that's not piping, that's passing
2019-11-28T07:29:11 < Cracki> in python, you can say "for somevariable in open("somefile"): ..."
2019-11-28T07:29:12 < jadew> oh, it looks like it does
2019-11-28T07:29:27 < jadew> yeah, you can do that with fs too
2019-11-28T07:29:47 < Cracki> readline is a sibling to fs
2019-11-28T07:30:01 < Cracki> "stream", ic
2019-11-28T07:30:08 < jadew> https://nodejs.org/api/fs.html#fs_fs_opensync_path_flags_mode
2019-11-28T07:30:17 < Cracki> createReadStream
2019-11-28T07:30:53 < Cracki> lol, integer representing file descriptor
2019-11-28T07:30:59 < Cracki> that feels like php
2019-11-28T07:31:09 < jadew> well, it's a wrapper for C
2019-11-28T07:31:16 < Cracki> well python is too :P
2019-11-28T07:31:27 < Cracki> except it adds some more value than this
2019-11-28T07:31:32 < jadew> you can make a class around it if you want, and I'm sure there is one already
2019-11-28T07:31:48 < Cracki> "batteries included" is how python puts it
2019-11-28T07:32:07 < jadew> https://www.npmjs.com/package/file-class
2019-11-28T07:32:14 < jadew> npm install file-class
2019-11-28T07:32:16 < jadew> done
2019-11-28T07:32:54 < jadew> for the record, I'm not a big fan of js
2019-11-28T07:32:57 < Cracki> javascript doesn't have named arguments. in python that would be file = open("foo.conf", encoding="utf8", ...)
2019-11-28T07:33:03 < jadew> but it works
2019-11-28T07:33:19 < Cracki> i can tolerate braces there :P
2019-11-28T07:34:15 < Cracki> python has the notion of iterators
2019-11-28T07:34:32 < Cracki> code that emits elements of a "list" (sequence) when needed, i.e. lazily
2019-11-28T07:34:45 < Cracki> range(1, 100000000000) is possible and costs nothing
2019-11-28T07:34:47 < jadew> yeah, js has that too
2019-11-28T07:34:50 < Cracki> because it doesn't build a whole list
2019-11-28T07:34:57 < jadew> js has generators
2019-11-28T07:35:04 < Cracki> js has to give these things an iterate method or something, eh?
2019-11-28T07:35:47 < jadew> you can make generators that generate the next item and then they stop
2019-11-28T07:35:47 < Cracki> c++ before this century had iterators but no syntax support in its for-loop
2019-11-28T07:36:19 < jadew> yeah, it has now
2019-11-28T07:36:35 < Cracki> c++ has it. i don't see it yet for js.
2019-11-28T07:36:46 < Cracki> I see https://developer.mozilla.org/en-US/docs/Web/JavaScript/Guide/Iterators_and_Generators
2019-11-28T07:36:49 < jadew> js has it too
2019-11-28T07:37:01 < Cracki> show me
2019-11-28T07:37:23 < Cracki> "function*" and yield, ah that's progress
2019-11-28T07:37:27 < jadew> for (let x of [1, 2, 3]) console.log(x);
2019-11-28T07:37:40 < Cracki> for-of, good to know
2019-11-28T07:37:49 < jadew> alternatively, you can iterate over the keys
2019-11-28T07:37:59 < jadew> for (let x in [1, 2, 3]) console.log(x);
2019-11-28T07:38:15 < Cracki> see, that stuff took its sweet time to show up in js because people demanded it
2019-11-28T07:38:30 < Cracki> python has first mover's advantage
2019-11-28T07:38:51 < jadew> the in thing was there since forever
2019-11-28T07:38:52 < Cracki> they did a whole fucking lot of things right and better than the existing competition
2019-11-28T07:39:08 < Cracki> for-of in js hasn't been there for more than a decade
2019-11-28T07:39:10 < jadew> yeah, I'm sure it must have a lot of good parts
2019-11-28T07:39:18 < jadew> otherwise people wouldn't have adopted it like this
2019-11-28T07:39:55 < Cracki> js and iterating over objects or arrays is a mess
2019-11-28T07:40:17 < Cracki> it has no notion of a basic hashmap type, only object
2019-11-28T07:40:24 < jadew> yeah, iterating over objects is kinda bad
2019-11-28T07:40:27 < jadew> it does
2019-11-28T07:40:33 < jadew> there is Map now
2019-11-28T07:40:41 < Cracki> it's not a basic type, is it
2019-11-28T07:40:46 < jadew> https://developer.mozilla.org/en-US/docs/Web/JavaScript/Reference/Global_Objects/Map
2019-11-28T07:40:48 < jadew> it is
2019-11-28T07:40:59 < Cracki> sounds new too, I would have loved to have that 10 years ago
2019-11-28T07:41:07 < jadew> yeah, it's new
2019-11-28T07:41:42 < Cracki> "Non-standard. Do not use! " https://developer.mozilla.org/en-US/docs/Web/JavaScript/Reference/Operators/Array_comprehensions
2019-11-28T07:41:43 < Cracki> fuckers
2019-11-28T07:42:22 < Cracki> python decided to banish its map/filter/reduce into an importable stdlib module instead of having them "builtin" (i.e. default available)
2019-11-28T07:42:39 < Cracki> because listcomps did two of those things and nobody ever remembers how reduce() needs to be called
2019-11-28T07:42:50 < Cracki> which is why there is sum() and prod()
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2019-11-28T07:44:02 < Cracki> I like javascript's scoping/lookup rules, which is as it's supposed to be. python started out fucked.
2019-11-28T07:44:20 < jadew> what is it like in python?
2019-11-28T07:44:22 < Cracki> mostly because python had no functional equivalent to "let" until recently
2019-11-28T07:44:32 < jadew> well, neither did js
2019-11-28T07:44:35 < jadew> js had var
2019-11-28T07:44:36 < Cracki> in python a variable is put in the scope it is first written at
2019-11-28T07:44:40 < Cracki> var then
2019-11-28T07:44:50 < Cracki> var and let probably have minor semantic diff
2019-11-28T07:45:02 < jadew> yeah, var is function level, let is block level
2019-11-28T07:45:27 < Cracki> the problem in python is that you couldn't (you can now) set a variable that's in an upper scope, unless it's the global scope
2019-11-28T07:45:41 < Cracki> it had "global" keyword that lets you make global vars writable in your function
2019-11-28T07:45:47 < jadew> even if it was defined there?
2019-11-28T07:45:52 < jadew> right
2019-11-28T07:45:55 < Cracki> now it has the nonlocal keyword that does the same to any upper-scope variable
2019-11-28T07:45:58 < jadew> similar to php
2019-11-28T07:46:04 < jadew> that's very stupid
2019-11-28T07:46:22 < Cracki> if you tried to assign to a variable that existed in an upper scope, without global/nonlocal, you created a new variable
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2019-11-28T07:46:36 < jadew> yeah, same with php
2019-11-28T07:46:43 < Cracki> that's one wart they have been papering over
2019-11-28T07:46:45 < jadew> js is sane in that regard
2019-11-28T07:47:11 < Cracki> now at least python has "nonlocal" as a kw, so this use case got fixed, if not pretty
2019-11-28T07:47:14 < jadew> I actually wrote a language once, to replace PHP and that was one of the grievances
2019-11-28T07:47:42 < jadew> it also had named parameters and other sweet stuff
2019-11-28T07:48:10 < jadew> maybe if I launched it back then, I would have been famous by now
2019-11-28T07:48:26 < jadew> it was a really complete language
2019-11-28T07:48:36 < jadew> with namespaces, sane inheritance, etc
2019-11-28T07:48:56 < jadew> qil
2019-11-28T07:49:01 -!- Netsplit *.net <-> *.split quits: SadMan, grevaillot, rmaw, dfgg, forrestv
2019-11-28T07:49:01 < jadew> quick interpreted language
2019-11-28T07:49:14 < jadew> pronounced kill
2019-11-28T07:49:53 < jadew> man... I had a lot of time on my hands when I was younger
2019-11-28T07:50:02 < Cracki> for..of loops were new in ecmascript 2015
2019-11-28T07:50:04 < Cracki> my fucking god
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2019-11-28T07:51:43 < jadew> oh right, qil had function pointers with prepopulated arguments
2019-11-28T07:52:38 < jadew> you could do $x = @test(20); and then call $x()
2019-11-28T07:52:48 < Cracki> cute
2019-11-28T07:53:14 < Cracki> they call that "bind" these days
2019-11-28T07:53:16 < jadew> yeah, I'm looking through the test sets right now, I don't remember much of this stuff
2019-11-28T07:53:21 < jadew> right
2019-11-28T07:53:27 < Cracki> or currying
2019-11-28T07:53:39 < Cracki> no wait, partial application
2019-11-28T07:54:00 < Cracki> currying was the transformation between taking one tuple argument, and taking the tuple's elements as several arguments
2019-11-28T07:54:45 < jadew> looks like I also had operator overloading
2019-11-28T07:54:58 -!- Netsplit over, joins: forrestv, grevaillot, SadMan, rmaw, dfgg
2019-11-28T07:55:08 < Cracki> https://hackaday.com/2014/02/10/python-with-braces/
2019-11-28T07:55:54 < jadew> yeah, found another one that did that
2019-11-28T07:55:58 < jpa-> https://i.pinimg.com/originals/87/4b/fa/874bfab24a928125e756f0c5fb1371ee.jpg  should have a logo like this
2019-11-28T07:56:03 < jadew> sounds very non-standard tho
2019-11-28T07:56:11 < jadew> lol jpa- 
2019-11-28T07:56:47 < Cracki> I fucking hope it's not just cosmetic but that they actually extended lambdas
2019-11-28T07:56:48 < jadew> Cracki, pythonb.org: "Click here to buy this domain"
2019-11-28T07:56:54 < Cracki> if not, they wasted their time
2019-11-28T07:57:00 < Cracki> https://python-with-braces.appspot.com/
2019-11-28T07:57:04 < Cracki> redirected me there, afaics
2019-11-28T07:57:17 < jadew> yeah, that's the one I found too
2019-11-28T07:57:30 < Cracki> oh, didn't redirect, but ublock killed it
2019-11-28T07:57:34 < jadew> but the hackaday link took me to that domain flipper's page
2019-11-28T07:57:43 < Cracki> i saw a tab flashing and thought my tab deduper caught it
2019-11-28T07:57:53 < jadew> ah
2019-11-28T07:58:08 < jadew> "Many braces!!! Much WOW!" -  Billy
2019-11-28T07:58:24 < jadew> I'm sold.
2019-11-28T07:58:52 < Cracki> someone in 2004 implemented goto (and comefrom) for python as an importable module
2019-11-28T07:58:54 < Cracki> that was fun
2019-11-28T07:59:23 < Cracki> and a whole lot more useful than simply giving python braces without extending lambda or making an unnamed def expression
2019-11-28T08:00:50 < jadew> one feature I like is the multi-level break or continue, but I don't remember which language has it :D
2019-11-28T08:01:05 < jadew> could be C++, PHP or JS - I don't know.
2019-11-28T08:01:10 < aandrew> gosub
2019-11-28T08:02:13 < Cracki> I think D has multilevel break
2019-11-28T08:02:29 < Cracki> python ought to get multilevel break
2019-11-28T08:02:39 < Cracki> or goto, ffs
2019-11-28T08:02:45 < jadew> it's one of those features that make you feel really good when you use them, because you know that without it, life would be just a bit shittier
2019-11-28T08:03:14 < Cracki> https://forum.dlang.org/thread/enq168$24so$1@digitaldaemon.com
2019-11-28T08:03:32 < Cracki> the time I spent in the D community was fun
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2019-11-28T08:04:51 < Cracki> they have labels and gotos, but a break can break out of the labeled loop
2019-11-28T08:05:09 < aandrew> that URL breaks my iterm URL picker-upper
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2019-11-28T08:05:58 < aandrew> multilevel break sounds like a hideous thing
2019-11-28T08:06:03 < Cracki> looks like D has switch case with no fallthrough
2019-11-28T08:06:06 < aandrew> try/catch seems a much saner implementaiton
2019-11-28T08:06:07 < Cracki> wat
2019-11-28T08:06:09 < Cracki> dude
2019-11-28T08:06:26 < Cracki> have you never had to have two loops, and needed to break out of the outer one from inside the inner one?
2019-11-28T08:06:29 < aandrew> yep
2019-11-28T08:06:34 < aandrew> it's called refactor
2019-11-28T08:06:41 < Cracki> *blinks*
2019-11-28T08:06:51 < aandrew> "break 2" or "continue 3" is as bad as goto
2019-11-28T08:06:57 < Cracki> you sound very enterprisey
2019-11-28T08:07:02 < aandrew> lol nope
2019-11-28T08:07:11 < aandrew> just sick and tired of people writing "slick" code
2019-11-28T08:07:19 < Cracki> shitloop: for(...) inner: for(...) .... break shitloop;
2019-11-28T08:07:25 < aandrew> a LOT of my code has things like this
2019-11-28T08:07:58 < Cracki> try-catch isn't for flow control, it's for exceptions :P
2019-11-28T08:08:37 < aandrew> do_one_thing() { for() { if(shit) break; } }    do_the_things: for () { if (do_one_thing()) break; }
2019-11-28T08:08:59 < Cracki> when I want to be elegant, I put both loops in a function and then I can return from it instead of double-breaking
2019-11-28T08:09:02 < aandrew> it's a lot fucking cleaner than trying to wedge in some bullshit like multi level break
2019-11-28T08:09:49 < Cracki> eh, then you get to fight scoping
2019-11-28T08:09:57 < Cracki> your way can't access the outer function's scope
2019-11-28T08:10:06 < Cracki> even if that's needed
2019-11-28T08:10:20 < Cracki> then you'd have to either pass those in by ref, or do it as a class/object
2019-11-28T08:10:23 < aandrew> that's a separate issue but usually handled with good structure design, but can be tricky
2019-11-28T08:10:38 < aandrew> and there are some algorithms that just suck
2019-11-28T08:10:55 < Cracki> and I hate to have single-use classes. I tolerate them for guis because eh whatever
2019-11-28T08:12:38 < aandrew> I'm coming at all of this from a C perspective too though. OO is nice but I find that a lot of languages seem to think "for every problem let's just extend OO to solve it!" and creates a nasty mess
2019-11-28T08:12:52 < Cracki> I would love for python to have module-extendable syntax
2019-11-28T08:13:01 < Cracki> that's not gonna happen I think
2019-11-28T08:13:08 < aandrew> indeed, we could get a brackets extension then!
2019-11-28T08:13:20 < Cracki> lisp has a lot to teach us
2019-11-28T08:13:44 < Cracki> I don't know if lisp can be disfigured to emulate bracy languages
2019-11-28T08:14:32 < Cracki> but I know enough about lisp to know it has several kinds of macro and they aren't just text replacement
2019-11-28T08:20:12 < Cracki> https://dev.to/xmikee/python-4-new-function-syntax-maybe-28mn
2019-11-28T08:20:22 < Cracki> someone suggests what I have in mind
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2019-11-28T08:25:05 < aandrew> it's funny
2019-11-28T08:25:16 < aandrew> I find his example actually proving that python is (far) more legible
2019-11-28T08:25:32 < aandrew> he talks about defining functions inline like it's a good thing
2019-11-28T08:25:51 < Cracki> it is
2019-11-28T08:26:13 < Cracki> it makes the call into quasi-syntax
2019-11-28T08:27:03 < Cracki> it's almost like "for number in range(60); ...some code..."
2019-11-28T08:27:54 < Cracki> it allows you to pass code to functions and thus make functions act as flow control the language doesn't have to provide
2019-11-28T08:29:02 < Cracki> this is the only valid argument I see against python's indentation-as-syntax
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2019-11-28T08:29:08 < aandrew> yeah, it just sounds like "let's get freaky with the ocde because we can, not because it has actual real practical value and is maintainable"
2019-11-28T08:29:20 < Cracki> "I don't like forced indentation" is too weak a position
2019-11-28T08:29:32 < aandrew> his fibonacci example proves my point, I think
2019-11-28T08:29:50 < Cracki> your argument can be applied to wanting arbitrary indentation
2019-11-28T08:29:58 < aandrew> Cracki: I don't like forced indentation, but I see what it has done for python's readability and maintainability
2019-11-28T08:30:05 < Cracki> it doesn't, you're arguing about style
2019-11-28T08:30:13 < aandrew> sure it does
2019-11-28T08:30:29 < Cracki> his fibonacci example... doesn't prove your point
2019-11-28T08:30:31 < Cracki> I think
2019-11-28T08:30:53 < Cracki> it's silly, sure
2019-11-28T08:31:09 < Cracki> fibonacci is 'a thing', it needs a name
2019-11-28T08:31:16 < aandrew> you can write absolute horseshit in many languages because there is no enforced rules making you at least attempt to make the code legible
2019-11-28T08:31:19 < Cracki> stuff that doesn't need a name is a better example for anonymous functions
2019-11-28T08:31:33 < Cracki> "you can X"
2019-11-28T08:31:46 < aandrew> I can appreciate what enforced indentation has done for the language without liking it. :-)
2019-11-28T08:31:50 < Cracki> :P
2019-11-28T08:32:05 < aandrew> "let's make a function to do something complex, but only use it once" -- wtf
2019-11-28T08:32:14 < aandrew> make a function and stop dicking around being slick
2019-11-28T08:32:40 < Cracki> I'm on the side of liberty too, which is why I don't understand that you'd use "it's ugly" to conclude "it shouldn't be done"
2019-11-28T08:34:00 < aandrew> I guess my point is this: I write legible code (most of the time). I work hard to try to keep it maintainable and understandable. I do not see things such as lambda functions achieving anything ohter than a cool way to do something that is harder to read and maintain
2019-11-28T08:34:00 < Cracki> what you could argue is consistency. python's overlords care about style, so they would argue for forced indentation and for naming all the things
2019-11-28T08:34:44 < Cracki> have at it https://mitpress.mit.edu/sites/default/files/sicp/index.html
2019-11-28T08:34:52 < aandrew> I dislike Python's forced indentation because they do it differently than I would in some areas and that grates on my sensibilities and the style of writing clean code that I've put decades in to. It's strictly a personal preference
2019-11-28T08:35:09 < Cracki> all they force you to indent is flow
2019-11-28T08:35:17 < Cracki> expressions you can still format however you like
2019-11-28T08:35:41 < Cracki> single-line blocks don't need indentation at all
2019-11-28T08:35:48 < Cracki> if foo: bar() is valid
2019-11-28T08:35:49 < aandrew> yes, and I find the lack of parenthesis to cause me to lose place in the file as I parse it, but I think some of that has to do with people who use two spaces for indents
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2019-11-28T08:36:11 < aandrew> but that's coming from way too much time staring at C, I am sure
2019-11-28T08:36:15 < Cracki> braces wouldn't help. a vertical line drawn by the editor would help
2019-11-28T08:36:24 < Cracki> and editors do that for any indentation, regardless of braces
2019-11-28T08:37:09 < Cracki> the end of a block and continuation of its enclosing indentation level is, I find, generally easy to spot
2019-11-28T08:37:32 < Cracki> the } is on the same level as the following statement in any bracy language
2019-11-28T08:37:38 < Cracki> so the } doesn't add meaning
2019-11-28T08:38:11 < Cracki> a multiple dedent (multiple }) can be a little confusing. you have to see the dedent to be larger than one level
2019-11-28T08:38:59 < Cracki> https://racket-lang.org/
2019-11-28T08:39:04 < Cracki> "batteries included"
2019-11-28T08:39:10 < Cracki> try that, run through sicp
2019-11-28T08:39:19 < Cracki> you'll learn why people have these crazy ideas
2019-11-28T08:40:12 < Cracki> *in any bracy language and any style that shouldn't cause immediate execution
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2019-11-28T08:45:58 < jadew> aandrew, the break thing - you have a point there, but unless the language allows me to name for loops, then I'm going to do multilevel breaks with numbers
2019-11-28T08:46:26 < jadew> I mean, if it allows me to do it, I find it far preferable to messing with extra variables and extra clutter code
2019-11-28T08:47:30 < jadew> if you could do something like for:name (...) { break name; }
2019-11-28T08:47:33 < jadew> that would be sweet
2019-11-28T08:48:07 < jadew> not sure what kind of syntax would work there, but for:name would work for me
2019-11-28T08:48:20 < jadew> for: name (whatever) {} // looks pretty good
2019-11-28T08:48:51 < jadew> as opposed to name: for () which is unclear
2019-11-28T08:49:21 < jadew> anyway, there are little ways in which you can do this that would make me go for the "right" way
2019-11-28T08:50:25 < Cracki> here someone argues for one lisp over another lisp, while pissing on all the other languages for their shortcomings https://fare.livejournal.com/188429.html
2019-11-28T08:50:34 < jadew> in the end you're trying to avoid adding one line of code, so if the solution is not shorter, then screw it
2019-11-28T08:50:34 < Cracki> long lived data, nobody understands that
2019-11-28T08:50:39 < aandrew> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q0RE-h1VDIg wow
2019-11-28T08:50:58 < Cracki> you found it
2019-11-28T08:51:00 < jadew> I saw that
2019-11-28T08:51:17 < jadew> I swear, youtube is feeding everyone the same shit
2019-11-28T08:51:28 < aandrew> well this came from hackaday for me
2019-11-28T08:51:41 < jadew> I'm talking to someone from Canada, who's not a programmer and he's giving me links for crap I saw last week
2019-11-28T08:52:05 < jadew> like comedy and political videos
2019-11-28T08:52:18 < jadew> (with very few views)
2019-11-28T08:52:36 < jadew> makes you think about manipulation a bit
2019-11-28T08:52:41 < aandrew> I ownder how much money he's got in that machine, and then tooling to build it
2019-11-28T08:53:02 < jadew> aandrew, more than buying one
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2019-11-28T08:53:14 < jadew> especially if you factor in the time he has put into it
2019-11-28T08:53:37 < jadew> he would have been better off buying an off the shelf one
2019-11-28T08:53:49 < jadew> you can get a nice one at ~$6k
2019-11-28T08:53:49 < aandrew> depends, he looks skilled enogh to know what he's doing
2019-11-28T08:54:50 < jadew> there are few "pro" things that I've made for myself that would have costed more to buy
2019-11-28T08:55:33 < jadew> you lose a lot on time alone
2019-11-28T08:56:03 < aandrew> jadew: naming for/while/etc is an excellent way to handle that, I dind't think of that
2019-11-28T08:56:10 < aandrew> "break 3" just makes me cringe
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2019-11-28T08:56:29 < jadew> you still have to do the research and to source stuff, no matter the qty, 1 or 1000
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2019-11-28T08:57:03 < jadew> aandrew, yeah, it's not great, but it's a relief when you write it, because otherwise you know you have to write some boiler plate code once again, for the millionth time
2019-11-28T08:57:36 < jadew> not everything has to be aeorspace ready
2019-11-28T08:58:42 < aandrew> for sure, I'm just thinking code refactoring of everyday shit
2019-11-28T09:12:57 < jly> why is a pussy in the well
2019-11-28T09:13:02 < jly> must have been a cat that fell
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2019-11-28T10:53:56 < jly> ralf und florian
2019-11-28T10:58:37 < Steffanx> Der German Brüder?
2019-11-28T10:58:39 < Steffanx> Or die.
2019-11-28T10:58:49 < Steffanx> Or Das
2019-11-28T11:04:23 < jly> hi stefni
2019-11-28T11:04:27 < jly> i mean stfn
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2019-11-28T11:56:52 < thardin> has anyone tried using say a teensy to read the flash off another stm32?
2019-11-28T11:57:13 < thardin> or should I just get an stlink?
2019-11-28T12:03:09 < Thorn> you mean you don't have an st-link already?
2019-11-28T12:09:15 < PaulFertser> thardin: probably you can run daplink firmwre on teensy?
2019-11-28T12:09:50 < PaulFertser> K20 is its primary target
2019-11-28T12:18:53 < Steffanx> Hi jly 
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2019-11-28T12:28:23 < karlp> fuck you guys got chatty this morning
2019-11-28T12:34:26 < jpa-> it'll take karlp the whole workday to read backlog
2019-11-28T12:42:42 < doomba> i don't know why i'm up so early
2019-11-28T12:42:47 < doomba> diong laundry and stuff
2019-11-28T12:42:58 < doomba> woke up at 3AM
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2019-11-28T13:17:30 < Thorn> >MIDI is 31.25Kbaud, which, interestingly is the fastest serial port speed on a 20Mhz 8051
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2019-11-28T13:39:01 < englishman> someone told me when debugging msp430, you can't see local variables in the debugger only globals
2019-11-28T13:39:05 < englishman> this is nuts right
2019-11-28T13:39:40 < englishman> I'm pretty sure in the 30 minutes I was dicking around with msp I would have noticed this
2019-11-28T13:39:52 < englishman> it has memory mapped ram so sounds bullshit
2019-11-28T13:42:19 < effractur> did the compile not just optimize them away?
2019-11-28T13:44:03 < thardin> Thorn: haven't had a need until recently
2019-11-28T13:44:19 < thardin> I want to read the firmware off the speed controller on my electric moped
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2019-11-28T13:45:46 < Steffanx> Do you trust that someone, englishman ?
2019-11-28T13:46:06 < englishman> he's worked on more msp430 projects than me (1)
2019-11-28T13:46:30 < englishman> but no I don't really believe him
2019-11-28T13:46:35 < Steffanx> Good. 
2019-11-28T13:47:28 < thardin> farnell has suspiciously low price on the nucleo board. is it any good?
2019-11-28T13:48:52 < thardin> like 15€
2019-11-28T13:51:54 < englishman> sounds expensive for a nucleo
2019-11-28T13:51:58 < englishman> aren't they like $15
2019-11-28T13:52:05 < doomba> yes
2019-11-28T13:52:18 < thardin> 145 SEK
2019-11-28T13:52:23 < englishman> wait
2019-11-28T13:52:24 < doomba> $15 that's about what i paid for one from digikey
2019-11-28T13:52:27 < englishman> are you in .se
2019-11-28T13:52:37 < thardin> yes, I was trying to be like international
2019-11-28T13:52:43 < englishman> holy FUCK
2019-11-28T13:52:49 < englishman> you're the FIRST
2019-11-28T13:53:06 < thardin> everyone on the internets is swedish
2019-11-28T13:53:08 < thardin> it is known
2019-11-28T13:53:14 < englishman> this chan has been here for like 12 years and has had plenty of .no and .fi pass thru
2019-11-28T13:53:21 < englishman> but ZERO sweedes
2019-11-28T13:54:01 < englishman> we were beginning to think your country was some kind of joke that parents tell their kids to scare them
2019-11-28T13:54:40 < thardin> don't be silly, that's finland
2019-11-28T13:54:56 < englishman> "don't use arduino little billy or we'll send you to sweeden"
2019-11-28T13:57:28 < englishman> anyway
2019-11-28T13:57:31  * karlp is going to .se tomorrow.
2019-11-28T13:57:33 < englishman> nucleos are cheap
2019-11-28T13:57:41 < karlp> was going to irc from ther eand be first, but boo, missed it by a day
2019-11-28T13:57:45 < englishman> what's your punishment karl
2019-11-28T13:57:57 < englishman> *for
2019-11-28T13:58:01 < karlp> liver maybe? visiting a friend.
2019-11-28T13:58:33 < zygron_> thardin: svenne!
2019-11-28T13:58:35 < englishman> I blogged from .se when I was there, it doesn't count
2019-11-28T13:58:45 < karlp> friend from .au is assigned to the erricsson mother ship for a week or so every now and again, got a cheap ticket to join him this time
2019-11-28T14:01:53 < thardin> swärje
2019-11-28T14:03:04 < zyp> karlp, Lund?
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2019-11-28T14:05:31 < karlp> kista I think
2019-11-28T14:05:40 < zyp> ah
2019-11-28T14:05:52 < karlp> donno about mother ship of motherships, it's just "ericcson in sweden" as far as he's concerned
2019-11-28T14:08:55 < zyp> I wonder if the STE office in Lund that I went to a couple of times is still there, I'm assuming that one went back to Ericsson after the split
2019-11-28T14:09:45 < mitrax> thardin: nah, i was told 'svenne' is what non native (i.e immigrants) use as slang to describe ethnic swede, but that was like 20 years ago, maybe it has gotten out of fashion
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2019-11-28T14:16:15 < thardin> nah that's still used
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2019-11-28T14:16:37 < thardin> but it's also used by native swedes to describe swedes with regressive views
2019-11-28T14:17:09 < thardin> ~är du född till svenne är du svenne tills du dör~
2019-11-28T14:22:44 < Steffanx> Da da
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2019-11-28T15:58:11 < mitrax> thardin: ahah i see
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2019-11-28T17:05:57 < dongs> any of you fags that fucked around with lroa shit what did you use for a transmitter PA
2019-11-28T17:06:02 < dongs> i see t his $3 skyworks part
2019-11-28T17:06:07 < dongs> but thats not waht chinks use in $1 moduels is it
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2019-11-28T17:19:41 < thardin> >lora
2019-11-28T17:19:53 < dongs> yeah don't ask
2019-11-28T17:19:56 < dongs> absolute useless shit
2019-11-28T17:19:59 < thardin> nice proprietary waveform
2019-11-28T17:32:49 < thardin> I hear it's been mostly RE'd now tho
2019-11-28T17:36:26 < jadew> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0qjLx_HsKUQ
2019-11-28T17:38:02 < jadew> rigol is in danger
2019-11-28T17:39:22 < karlp> seen lots of ads for those things
2019-11-28T17:39:56 < jadew> they're turning into a real company
2019-11-28T17:40:15 < karlp> they're the same company that amkes my usb monitor I think
2019-11-28T17:40:25 < jadew> it's amazing what they achieved with such a crappy original project
2019-11-28T17:40:38 < karlp> you still need an external dc supply right?!
2019-11-28T17:40:45 < jadew> karlp, don't know, they're the ones with those shitty power supplies you could buy for a couple of dollars
2019-11-28T17:40:50 < jadew> karlp, yeah
2019-11-28T17:42:19 < jadew> the injection molded panel looks great, so they must have made a fortune with the previous supplies
2019-11-28T17:44:42 < jadew> they were making something like this: https://www.aliexpress.com/item/4000055384914.html
2019-11-28T17:45:11 < karlp> at least that was boost/buck
2019-11-28T17:45:27 < jadew> don't know if that was their product
2019-11-28T17:45:45 < jadew> still, a rather silly product to make a fortune on
2019-11-28T17:52:42 < englishman> wow
2019-11-28T17:53:03 < englishman> Dave has stooped to reviewing every little piece of chink garbage now?
2019-11-28T17:53:51 < dongs> now? isnt that all he ever did
2019-11-28T17:53:54 < englishman> is he going to 'review' a $10 12v supply next
2019-11-28T17:54:13 < englishman> or worse, become a PC part reviewer
2019-11-28T17:57:51 < thardin> davetechtips
2019-11-28T17:58:44 < jadew> I think he's the one who promoted the previous revision of that crap
2019-11-28T18:08:49 < aandrew> yeah that power supply thing I see the smaller version all the time
2019-11-28T18:10:04 < aandrew> not a great supply
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2019-11-28T18:12:16 < aandrew> the noise is shit, but the turn on/off has no overshoot
2019-11-28T18:14:07 < karlp> I'd say the noise is a lot more manageable than the overshoot I've soon on other cheap supplies
2019-11-28T18:15:15 < aandrew> yeah I think an output filter would be able to kill that, or maybe there is something easy you can do inside it
2019-11-28T18:15:31 < jadew> no it can't
2019-11-28T18:15:39 < aandrew> hm?
2019-11-28T18:15:40 < jadew> they already have a lot of filtering on the output
2019-11-28T18:15:58 < jadew> so much that it easily qualifies as a shit supply
2019-11-28T18:16:09 < jadew> they have like 1 mF output capacitance
2019-11-28T18:16:19 < aandrew> we're talking about HF filtering, not ripple
2019-11-28T18:16:28 < jadew> making current limiting extremely inefficient for transient loads
2019-11-28T18:16:45 < aandrew> the CC/CV switch under load seemed pretty decent
2019-11-28T18:18:25 < jadew> aandrew, it may look like that on the scope, but the reality is that it probably pushes a lot of amps for an eternity before it gets kicked into CC mode
2019-11-28T18:18:53 < jadew> unless you plot the curves while following the current it delivers, they're meaningless
2019-11-28T18:20:13 < karlp> still looks lots better than lots of cheap power supplies in the past, and more expensive ones too.
2019-11-28T18:20:24 < karlp> just because it's not 10gig jade powah doesn't make it that bad.
2019-11-28T18:20:33 < karlp> I'm still not going to buy one of course
2019-11-28T18:22:02 < aandrew> jadew: fair point, but for resistive loads the scope can tell the story I think
2019-11-28T18:22:21 < aandrew> I need to take a closer look at it, I was just looking for obvious voltage overshoot; current overshoot we need to know the trigger point
2019-11-28T18:22:38 < jadew> karlp, yeah, it looks a lot better than many others, and it's probably better too
2019-11-28T18:23:48 < aandrew> yep. I ahve enough power supplies for the time being
2019-11-28T18:25:00 < jadew> I wish I had another one
2019-11-28T18:25:51 < jadew> something compact, with 3 channels and a full number pad
2019-11-28T18:27:24 < jadew> I was considering this at one point: https://uk.rs-online.com/web/p/bench-power-supplies/8262701/
2019-11-28T18:27:40 < jadew> but I didn't have the bench space back then (it's very long)
2019-11-28T18:37:51 < bitmask> happy  kill all the natives day
2019-11-28T18:38:30 < jadew> oh, is that what thanksgiving is about?
2019-11-28T18:38:30 < bitmask> man i gotta get this reflow oven controller code finished
2019-11-28T18:38:41 < Thorn> jadew: you may be able to find oem versions of that on aliexpress
2019-11-28T18:38:42 < bitmask> pretty much
2019-11-28T18:38:46 < jadew> "Thanks for all the land we took from you!"?
2019-11-28T18:38:54 < aandrew>  yeah my supplies are all old or cheap (got a couple amazon specials that I am sure are no better than this one). none are programmable, but the thought was that I could replace the pots with digipots and control them that way eventually
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2019-11-28T18:39:08 < jadew> Thorn, yeah, itech or something like that IIRC
2019-11-28T18:39:15 < jadew> but I think they're slightly different
2019-11-28T18:39:17 < jadew> not sure how much
2019-11-28T18:39:43 < jadew> aandrew, that's an interesting idea
2019-11-28T18:40:21 < jadew> only one of my 4 power supplies is not programmable
2019-11-28T18:40:22 < bitmask> what would you use to display a line chart on a webpage?
2019-11-28T18:40:33 < jadew> the tenma rebadge of the korad ones
2019-11-28T18:40:52 < jadew> bitmask, there are lots of libraries for that
2019-11-28T18:41:09 < bitmask> yea, figured id ask to see if anyone knows a good one
2019-11-28T18:41:35 < jadew> for something very simple, I'm using https://www.chartjs.org
2019-11-28T18:41:52 < bitmask> looks good thanks
2019-11-28T18:41:57 < jadew> np
2019-11-28T18:42:11 < bitmask> just charting the reflow temp so my use is very simple too
2019-11-28T18:42:18 < jadew> they all require a bit of setup, just so you know
2019-11-28T18:42:23 < bitmask> yea thats fine
2019-11-28T18:42:55 < aandrew> I figure if I have a supply that performs well, I can make it programmable, but it's harder to make a cheap programmable supply a better supply
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2019-11-28T18:43:26 < jadew> aandrew, heh, that's very true
2019-11-28T18:45:17 < jadew> I wanted to make changes to one of my power supplies too, but I eventually gave up
2019-11-28T18:46:02 < aandrew> yes. it's one of those things that is deceptively simple
2019-11-28T18:46:07 < aandrew> actually a lot of electronics is like that
2019-11-28T18:46:37 < karlp> just like sw! :)
2019-11-28T18:46:38 < aandrew> any idiot can slap together a supply and have it mostly work, but when you want it to have excellent regulation and perfomant under step loads etc it starts to get a little trickier
2019-11-28T18:46:53 < aandrew> karlp: :-)
2019-11-28T18:50:13 < jadew> on that video's thread, someone mentioned how chinese software is often riddled with malware
2019-11-28T18:50:30 < aandrew> that's a typical scaremongering
2019-11-28T18:50:33 < jadew> makes you wonder - is every PC in china full of viruses?
2019-11-28T18:50:39 < jadew> well, it's true
2019-11-28T18:50:59 < aandrew> it's my experience that the chinese are so concerned about getting it out as fast and cheap as possible that malware will be rare
2019-11-28T18:51:32 < karlp> but at the same time, have ~zero oversight or care if their distribution channel does anything else to it.
2019-11-28T18:52:38 < jadew> I found viruses on chinese CDs
2019-11-28T18:53:10 < jadew> I think that one came with a TV tuner
2019-11-28T18:53:18 < jadew> then I found viruses in downloadable content
2019-11-28T18:53:31 < kakipr0> and you are suprised by iit?
2019-11-28T18:53:57 < jadew> I'm not, I'm just saying that I don't think it's scaremongering
2019-11-28T18:54:09 < jadew> there's definitely some truth to it
2019-11-28T18:54:42 < jadew> I think it's because they don't bother with licenses
2019-11-28T18:54:56 < jadew> they just crack everything and that's how they get exposed
2019-11-28T18:55:44 < jadew> and they probably use chinese software too, which is known to have malware :P
2019-11-28T18:57:48 < aandrew> karlp: 100% agreed
2019-11-28T18:57:54 < aandrew> I'm talking about embedded specifically
2019-11-28T18:58:58 < jadew> ah, they have no interest in conducting surveillance via embedded software
2019-11-28T18:59:25 < jadew> they have the malware etched in the silicone
2019-11-28T19:01:12 < jadew> if you ever wondered why your ARM chip takes different number of cycles to run the same instruction, this is it
2019-11-28T19:06:47 < jadew> I've been considering starting a tinfoil hat troll channel
2019-11-28T19:07:01 < jadew> did you guys see the one with the guy taking apart a street lamp?
2019-11-28T19:07:01 < Steffanx> ##stm32 ?
2019-11-28T19:07:08 < jadew> haha Steffanx 
2019-11-28T19:07:13 < jadew> a youtube channel
2019-11-28T19:07:43 < jadew> like the ones where they plug in a power strip into itself and they use it to power a light bulb
2019-11-28T19:08:11 < Steffanx> Want to attract Blaxters?
2019-11-28T19:08:16 < jadew> haha
2019-11-28T19:09:44 < jadew> it would attract all sorts of people, both believers and non-believers that feel powerless, because they can't explain advanced topics to someone who's oblivious to more fundamental aspects
2019-11-28T19:10:40 < jadew> would be a fun experiment
2019-11-28T19:11:22 < jadew> and there are lots of good topics available
2019-11-28T19:11:57 < jadew> 5G
2019-11-28T19:13:28 < jadew> radio mind control via FM broadcasting stations
2019-11-28T19:13:53 < jadew> microwave ovens
2019-11-28T19:13:59 < jadew> free energy
2019-11-28T19:15:18 < PaulFertser> Do you plan this as a fun experiment or as means to earn money? Can it be actually profitable for a pro like you to spend time on it?
2019-11-28T19:15:42 < jadew> PaulFertser, for fun, but I think you can actually earn money out of it
2019-11-28T19:16:29 < jadew> people who believe in this stuff are always looking for someone who can deliver some validity
2019-11-28T19:17:38 < PaulFertser> jadew: if you already know how to make fancy videos fast enough, probably. Else you might spend helluva time on setting up all the "proofs", video editing etc for a reasonably small return. Also probably many people will want subtitles, or probably the auto-generated are good enough these days?
2019-11-28T19:18:21 < aandrew> jadew: isn't this the tinfoil hat troll channel?
2019-11-28T19:18:30 < jadew> PaulFertser, that's a good point, but a lot of it you can do without much preparation
2019-11-28T19:18:40 < jadew> and the auto-generated subtitles suck
2019-11-28T19:19:04 < jadew> aandrew, this is the opposite of that
2019-11-28T19:19:49 < jadew> we have exact knowledge on the reason why we wear the tinfoil hats
2019-11-28T19:19:57 < aandrew> oh I see
2019-11-28T19:20:07 < aandrew> "just beacuse we're paranoid doesn't mean they aren't actually out to get us"
2019-11-28T19:20:28 < jadew> oh, that could be the tagline of the channel
2019-11-28T19:20:44 < englishman> tesla delivery delayed
2019-11-28T19:20:48 < englishman> paint fault
2019-11-28T19:21:02 < jadew> englishman, is that code for rust?
2019-11-28T19:21:08 < englishman> probably
2019-11-28T19:21:32 < jadew> or did they scratch it?
2019-11-28T19:21:51 < englishman> they seemed to say it was a paint fault not a fault from transport
2019-11-28T19:22:18 < jadew> it's cool they pay attention to these details
2019-11-28T19:22:44 < englishman> yeah I guess in the delivery center they have a little more time, they aren't doing 1k+ cars per day
2019-11-28T19:23:09 < leite> hi, I have some problems with stm8 code, good place to ask?
2019-11-28T19:24:22 < PaulFertser> leite: as good as it gets ;)
2019-11-28T19:25:10 < englishman> stm8 rules
2019-11-28T19:26:04 < leite> ok, I have a stm8s discovery board, I successfully manage to toggle led using the board switch with this code https://hastebin.com/agetewedig.cpp
2019-11-28T19:26:59 < leite> but now I am trying to make it toggle using interrupt, but no luck so far, here is the bad code https://hastebin.com/aqitihoxid.cpp
2019-11-28T19:27:00 < Steffanx> Such low level code. You dont see beginners (with a platform) do that much lately
2019-11-28T19:28:32 < leite> idk if it is the btn_isr that is wrong or is it the EXTI_CR1 flag
2019-11-28T19:30:45 < Steffanx> There should be flags if its trigger I guess
2019-11-28T19:30:47 < Steffanx> The exti
2019-11-28T19:30:56 < Steffanx> Triggered*
2019-11-28T19:30:57 < leite> I am using sdcc and the board chip stm8s003
2019-11-28T19:31:07 < Steffanx> Triggers*
2019-11-28T19:31:10 < Steffanx> Such english
2019-11-28T19:31:39 < leite> so EXTI_CR1·|=·0b00001000; is not correct?
2019-11-28T19:39:36 < PaulFertser> leite: I think Steffanx meant that you can check a flag in a loop to see if the interrupt flag was raised or not.
2019-11-28T19:39:52 < PaulFertser> leite: the one that signals that interrupt should be set pending.
2019-11-28T19:39:55 < Steffanx> Or with a debugger, but yes.
2019-11-28T19:40:08 < PaulFertser> leite: btw, do you have stlink and openocd to debug it?
2019-11-28T19:40:52 < leite> I am using a dev board, stm8svldiscovery ... It has a stlinkv1 onboard
2019-11-28T19:41:35 < PaulFertser> leite: v1, hm it sucks, I'm not sure anyone ever tested swim with it.
2019-11-28T19:42:00 < karlp> should be identical commands inside it...
2019-11-28T19:43:22 < PaulFertser> leite: are you reading https://lujji.github.io/blog/bare-metal-programming-stm8/ ?
2019-11-28T19:43:40 < leite> yeah
2019-11-28T19:43:52 < leite> very nice, but have no example of exti
2019-11-28T19:45:42 < PaulFertser> (a sidenote to the others: see how much leite is different to Jan!)
2019-11-28T19:46:39 < PaulFertser> leite: I assume you've already checked that you can read button value from GPIO periph properly with that initialisation?
2019-11-28T19:47:02 < karlp> ~everyone is better than jan
2019-11-28T19:47:41 < leite> yes, manage to do that with this example https://hastebin.com/agetewedig.cpp
2019-11-28T19:48:09 < PaulFertser> It's not about better or worse, it's about whether it's leading to interesting and actually enlightening discussions. 
2019-11-28T19:49:39 < PaulFertser> leite: why in the second case you enable pull up and in the first do not?
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2019-11-28T19:50:47 < leite> good question, I try that
2019-11-28T19:50:54 < englishman> PaulFertser: lol
2019-11-28T19:53:16 < leite> well, PaulFertser I change it to pull up but still no success
2019-11-28T19:55:30 < PaulFertser> leite: now we can just check all your code register-by-register.
2019-11-28T19:56:40 < leite> there is an example of interrupts working with this chip using cosmic, but I dont have it, here it is https://blog.mark-stevens.co.uk/2012/08/external-interrupts-on-the-stm8s/
2019-11-28T19:57:18 < leite> do u know if cosmic spits asm, so I can compare the outputs or is it not worth it?
2019-11-28T19:57:46 < leite> cuz I have an old pc with windows, just in case
2019-11-28T19:58:33 < PaulFertser> leite: please pastebin your latest code just in case
2019-11-28T19:59:16 < leite> PaulFertser https://hastebin.com/xixovisiqo.cpp
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2019-11-28T20:00:38 < PaulFertser> leite: am I reading the right datasheet? STM8S003K3? It says PB7 doesn't have EXTI?
2019-11-28T20:00:55 < leite> really, wtf
2019-11-28T20:01:06 < leite> why the hell they put a switch there
2019-11-28T20:01:07 < leite> lol
2019-11-28T20:01:16 < leite> I will look for it, 1 min
2019-11-28T20:02:14 < PaulFertser> Reference manual: 467 pages, Device datasheet: 103 pages.
2019-11-28T20:03:59 < leite> can you point the page?
2019-11-28T20:04:16 < PaulFertser> leite: 23
2019-11-28T20:04:59 < leite> ok, I found it
2019-11-28T20:05:08 < leite> thanks, omg, must be it
2019-11-28T20:05:35 < PaulFertser> leite: without pullup it wouldn't work too unless you have an additional external pullup.
2019-11-28T20:07:34 < leite> ok, I will create an external switch replicating the schematics but using pin 2 port D for example
2019-11-28T20:07:57 < leite> since PD1 is for the swim interface
2019-11-28T20:08:32 < PaulFertser> leite: or you can just short PB7 and PD2 with a wire :)
2019-11-28T20:08:58 < leite> wow, that is some sick trick
2019-11-28T20:09:07 < PaulFertser> Just do not enable drive on both :)
2019-11-28T20:09:08 < leite> ok, 1 min
2019-11-28T20:10:23 < leite> I need to make a cheatsheet of this chip with all this info for quick search
2019-11-28T20:12:49 < leite> 10K resistor as jumper just in case right?
2019-11-28T20:13:08 < PaulFertser> Should work
2019-11-28T20:13:46 < PaulFertser> leite: depending on whether there's an external pull up or not, and what value is the internal pullup.
2019-11-28T20:14:31 < PaulFertser> leite: or just enable pullup on PB7 and not enable on PD2.
2019-11-28T20:25:56 < leite> PaulFertser this works https://hastebin.com/okuxezasen.cpp
2019-11-28T20:26:17 < leite> 1 min, will modify the interrupt one
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2019-11-28T20:26:57 < aandrew> trying to figure out a mesh network design for transporting audio between 3-9 nodes (think of motorcycles on a road trip)
2019-11-28T20:27:32 < PaulFertser> I wonder if stm8 designers were keeping AVR in mind.
2019-11-28T20:27:53 < aandrew> each node needs its audio stream and a mixed audio stream, but Im not sure how to properly mix since you may be getting an audio packet with audio from nodes 1-3 and antoher packet from another part of the mesh with 3,6,7 or someshit
2019-11-28T20:28:08 < aandrew> I don't really want to try to push separate audio but that may be the only feasible method
2019-11-28T20:28:11 < leite> why do u say that PaulFertser?
2019-11-28T20:29:11 < PaulFertser> leite: so far this is my first experience with stm8 and it looks not entirely unlike AVR. But probably it's just superficial like naming of the DDR register and ports.
2019-11-28T20:29:37 < PaulFertser> aandrew: are you considering building a Scala clone? :)
2019-11-28T20:30:27 < aandrew> what's a scala?
2019-11-28T20:31:00 < PaulFertser> aandrew: something like https://www.cardosystems.com/shop/packtalk-bold/
2019-11-28T20:33:05 < mawk> more like a programming language
2019-11-28T20:33:54 < aandrew> PaulFertser: yes, exactly that. this looks like a solved problem
2019-11-28T20:34:14 < PaulFertser> aandrew: and rich bikers are used to all the features it has to offer, not just intercom.
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2019-11-28T20:38:03 < leite> PaulFertser no luck https://hastebin.com/axobagecuz.cpp
2019-11-28T20:40:17 < PaulFertser> leite: but CR2 bit needs to be set to enable interrupt.
2019-11-28T20:40:44 < leite> EXTI_CR2?
2019-11-28T20:41:02 < PaulFertser> leite: no, PD_CR2
2019-11-28T20:41:34 < PaulFertser> leite: also, please do not do ~(xxx) . If xxx is a properly defined macro it already has () around it. :)
2019-11-28T20:42:04 < vampi-the-frog> nice and small
2019-11-28T20:42:31 < aandrew> PaulFertser: for sure
2019-11-28T20:43:19 < PaulFertser> aandrew: another popular brand is Sena.
2019-11-28T20:44:15 < leite> it should be PD_CR2 &= BTN_MASK; right?
2019-11-28T20:44:21 < leite> I was inverting it
2019-11-28T20:44:54 < PaulFertser> leite: no, to unset you use &= ~BTN_MASK. But in this case I see in the datasheet the bit should be set, so |= BTN_MASK
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2019-11-28T20:46:27 < leite> wonderful, a work of art, facisnating
2019-11-28T20:46:32 < leite> thanks PaulFertser
2019-11-28T20:46:53 < PaulFertser> leite: :)
2019-11-28T20:48:05 < leite> I need to pay attention to bitwise, I dont use it on daily basis
2019-11-28T20:49:13 < upgrdman> does win10 have a way to sleep your monitor but leave the "pc" on?
2019-11-28T20:49:24 < upgrdman> e.g. keep music playing but turn off the screen
2019-11-28T20:49:25 < upgrdman> etc
2019-11-28T20:49:29 < Cracki> yeh
2019-11-28T20:49:35 < Cracki> sec, I have a magic spell
2019-11-28T20:49:38 < jadew> upgrdman, yes
2019-11-28T20:49:42 < jadew> me too
2019-11-28T20:49:55 < leite> PaulFertser, final code https://hastebin.com/ahayosakob.cpp
2019-11-28T20:50:03 < Cracki> ctypes.windll.user32.SendMessageA(0xffff, 274, 0xf170, 2)
2019-11-28T20:50:25 < Cracki> unfortunately I never documented those magic numbers
2019-11-28T20:50:27 < PaulFertser> leite: works fine now?
2019-11-28T20:50:31 < leite> yeah
2019-11-28T20:50:55 < Cracki> 0xF170 is SC_MONITORPOWER
2019-11-28T20:50:56 < jadew> upgrdman, http://5.12.75.158/stuff/turnoffmonitor.exe
2019-11-28T20:51:16 < leite> I think I will make a document this troubleshooting and make a case
2019-11-28T20:51:46 < leite> Idk, I think ppl are confuse about stm32 beeing close to win32 lol
2019-11-28T20:53:14 < Cracki> with constants (not included) ctypes.windll.user32.SendMessageA(HWND_BROADCAST, WM_SYSCOMMAND, SC_MONITORPOWER, SC_MONITORPOWER_SHUTOFF)
2019-11-28T20:53:25 < Cracki> https://docs.microsoft.com/en-us/windows/win32/menurc/wm-syscommand
2019-11-28T20:53:40 < jadew> I can't find the source for that program
2019-11-28T20:54:41 < jadew> found it
2019-11-28T20:54:47 < jadew> PostMessage(HWND_BROADCAST, WM_SYSCOMMAND, SC_MONITORPOWER, 2);
2019-11-28T20:55:26 < Cracki> yeah postmessage is better, doesn't block for some response
2019-11-28T20:55:51 < jadew> and with an extra Sleep(500) before it, to eliminate user interaction between say hitting ok on the run dialog and the program doing its thing
2019-11-28T20:56:33 < jadew> (because it would turn it back on again)
2019-11-28T21:04:49 < PaulFertser> It's weird, you press OK, then the program is run and calls that function, why would windows consider it to be interaction?
2019-11-28T21:04:51 < Steffanx> Whats bad about ~().. except for hte 2 extra characters mr PaulFertser?
2019-11-28T21:05:46 < PaulFertser> Steffanx: it looks odd and draws unnecessary attention. Also it makes me check whether the macro is properly defined.
2019-11-28T21:06:48 < Steffanx> oh, so its more your issue then an actual issue :P
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2019-11-28T21:11:07 < Cracki> upgrdman, or you go into power settings and configure a profile to turn off the monitor after x minutes
2019-11-28T21:12:12 < Cracki> PaulFertser, program might start and execute the call before you let go of the enter key
2019-11-28T21:12:57 < Cracki> windows isn't slow enough to let that much time pass
2019-11-28T21:13:58 < PaulFertser> Cracki: are windows gui dialogues working that way? I thought the button needs to be depressed first for any action. Like it was on MacOS interface they cloned when you're supposed to hold the mouse button pressed till you go through all the submenus and then you depress it on the item needed.
2019-11-28T21:14:17 < Cracki> guis wait for keyup, usually
2019-11-28T21:14:30 < Cracki> if someone rolls their own event handling, they might react to keydown already
2019-11-28T21:14:43 < Cracki> hitting enter on a focused icon runs it at keydown
2019-11-28T21:14:50 < Cracki> same for commands in terminals
2019-11-28T21:15:19 < PaulFertser> OK, thanks for clarification. So a focused icon is not like a regular GUI button.
2019-11-28T21:15:40 < Cracki> the higher level "press" event expects you to key/mouse down and up in the same control
2019-11-28T21:18:21 < Cracki> has anyone seen laurence/b/ recently? or did they lock him up for browsing spicy meme sites at work yet
2019-11-28T21:19:02 < PaulFertser> For the reference, with a standard OS running Xorg turning off the display would be: xset dpms force off
2019-11-28T21:19:11 < Cracki> you'd think that kinda thing is a protected right in Meme Country
2019-11-28T21:19:40 < Cracki> xorg you say
2019-11-28T21:20:01 < Cracki> is wayland considered xorgish?
2019-11-28T21:21:03 < PaulFertser> I do not think so, it's a whole new world. I've never looked into it since XMonad is not going to work there like ever, I guess. Also I've spent too much time researching Xkb configuration so switching to something else would be unnecessary pain.
2019-11-28T21:21:09 < bitmask> blah, reflow oven code almost done
2019-11-28T21:21:24 < Cracki> just use a paint stripper
2019-11-28T21:21:26 < bitmask> then I just gotta do a quick web interface
2019-11-28T21:21:48 < Cracki> doomba, present your web gui skills to bitmask
2019-11-28T21:22:02 < doomba> bitmask: oh nice
2019-11-28T21:22:14 < PaulFertser> Cracki: paint stripper? What for?
2019-11-28T21:22:15 < Cracki> what was it, vue.js
2019-11-28T21:22:20 < Cracki> PaulFertser, reflowing :>
2019-11-28T21:22:32 < doomba> bitmask: yeah i ended up taking on some full stack work for a lawn service company so i didn't have any time in the past months to get back to my reflow code
2019-11-28T21:22:43 < Cracki> I hear the cheap repair shops use hot air guns for the sensitive stuff like gpus and cpus
2019-11-28T21:23:04 < doomba> it's vuejs and bulma iirc
2019-11-28T21:23:17 < bitmask> you are working on a reflow controller too?
2019-11-28T21:23:19 < doomba> and espasyncwebserver
2019-11-28T21:23:20 < doomba> yes
2019-11-28T21:23:26 < bitmask> cool
2019-11-28T21:23:35 < doomba> using the same one i sent you?
2019-11-28T21:23:37 < PaulFertser> Cracki: yes, they do, plus heated plate, but where does paint stripper come into play? Or are you talking about a heat gun not meant to be used for SMD rework?
2019-11-28T21:23:41 < bitmask> oh its you???
2019-11-28T21:23:44 < doomba> yep :)
2019-11-28T21:23:44 < bitmask> you changed your nick
2019-11-28T21:23:46 < doomba> yea
2019-11-28T21:23:50 < doomba> dat social credit system
2019-11-28T21:23:52 < bitmask> yea using that
2019-11-28T21:24:01 < bitmask> you never finished it so I had to take matters into my own hands
2019-11-28T21:24:05 < bitmask> :)
2019-11-28T21:24:06 < doomba> no worries
2019-11-28T21:24:09 < doomba> i'll eventually get back to it
2019-11-28T21:24:16 < doomba> just been too basy making minwage
2019-11-28T21:24:24 < bitmask> no problem, its not too complicated anyway
2019-11-28T21:24:28 < bitmask> just keeping it simple
2019-11-28T21:24:29 < doomba> yea
2019-11-28T21:24:40 < doomba> if you want we can combine forces
2019-11-28T21:24:53 < PaulFertser> doomba: so should be congratulate you with getting a nice job finally?
2019-11-28T21:24:54 < doomba> if you get the basic thing working i can add a frontend to it
2019-11-28T21:25:09 < bitmask> I mean I can send you what I have when its finished, not sure if its worth using, you can decide
2019-11-28T21:25:10 < doomba> PaulFertser: lol no. it's definitely a nice job but it's not salary
2019-11-28T21:25:33 < bitmask> like I said, I'm just doing minimal stuff to get it working, not much customizability or anything
2019-11-28T21:25:34 < doomba> it's still contract work as usual - just a little bit more stable and slightly higher pay
2019-11-28T21:25:59 < bitmask> using controleo3 as a guide
2019-11-28T21:26:00 < Cracki> PaulFertser, exactly, a heat gun for paint stripping, with zero temperature control or flow control
2019-11-28T21:26:00 < PaulFertser> doomba: at least that sounds like a step in the right direction.
2019-11-28T21:26:07 < doomba> yes
2019-11-28T21:26:19 < doomba> i'm trying to pivot it into something even better
2019-11-28T21:26:44 < doomba> the company i'm doing the code for will let me use it as a "portfolio project"
2019-11-28T21:27:31 < upgrdman> PS C:\Users\FarrellF> ctypes.windll.user32.SendMessageA(HWND_BROADCAST, WM_SYSCOMMAND, SC_MONITORPOWER, SC_MONITORPOWER_SHUTOFF);
2019-11-28T21:27:31 < upgrdman> At line:1 char:49
2019-11-28T21:27:31 < upgrdman> + ctypes.windll.user32.SendMessageA(HWND_BROADCAST, WM_SYSCOMMAND, SC_M ...
2019-11-28T21:27:31 < upgrdman> +                                                 ~
2019-11-28T21:27:31 < upgrdman> Missing argument in parameter list.
2019-11-28T21:27:38 < upgrdman> am i being retarded? wtf
2019-11-28T21:27:50 < upgrdman> oops, sorry about multiline paste
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2019-11-28T21:47:36 < Cracki> possibly
2019-11-28T21:47:41 < Cracki> you have to define those things
2019-11-28T21:47:53 < Cracki> define them with the magic numbers I posted earlier, upgrdman 
2019-11-28T21:48:04 < Cracki> or the same jadew posted
2019-11-28T21:48:35 < Cracki> wait, missing argument? there are four arguments, that's all there is
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2019-11-28T21:49:06 < Cracki> that was python also, not powershell
2019-11-28T21:49:14 < Cracki> no clue what powershell wants
2019-11-28T21:50:24 < Cracki> https://eddiejackson.net/wp/?p=22982
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2019-11-28T22:59:40 < Ultrasauce> http://musicforprogramming.net/?twentyfive today's musicspam
2019-11-28T23:02:04 < Steffanx> sounds like some music in a android game 
2019-11-28T23:07:10 -!- ekaologik [~quassel@p4FF16517.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit [Quit: https://quassel-irc.org - Komfortabler Chat. Überall.]
2019-11-28T23:11:40 < sync> aaaaa Ultrasauce why does the +30s button make a sound :D
2019-11-28T23:12:48 < mawk> I've got the keys to my delftse huis Steffanx 
2019-11-28T23:12:51 < mawk> I'm real dutch now
2019-11-28T23:13:31 < Steffanx> Congratz.
2019-11-28T23:13:36 < karlp> who was doomba again?
2019-11-28T23:13:43 < Steffanx> roomba
2019-11-28T23:14:05 < Steffanx> the ex convict
2019-11-28T23:14:09 < Steffanx> not sure what you remember
2019-11-28T23:14:34 < mawk> salcedo
2019-11-28T23:14:41 < Steffanx> and something else before that
2019-11-28T23:14:43 < mawk> is doomba's first nick here
2019-11-28T23:14:45 < Steffanx> or in between
2019-11-28T23:14:47 < karlp> salcedo I remember. thanks
2019-11-28T23:14:51 < Steffanx> lol your client knows that mawk?
2019-11-28T23:16:04 < Steffanx> does this make you happy or not karlp?
2019-11-28T23:16:12 < mawk> knows what Steffanx ?
2019-11-28T23:16:12 < Steffanx> knowing.
2019-11-28T23:16:21 < Steffanx> the first nick 
2019-11-28T23:16:26 < mawk> ah, the first nick ? no I just remember it
2019-11-28T23:16:29 < Steffanx> ah
2019-11-28T23:17:52 < Steffanx> i only remeber the bad stories. 
2019-11-28T23:18:02 < Steffanx> bitmask shared quiet a few with us too
2019-11-28T23:18:05 < Steffanx> quite
2019-11-28T23:18:13 < mawk> lol
2019-11-28T23:18:19 < mawk> you want bad stories from me ?
2019-11-28T23:18:28 < Steffanx> already have some
2019-11-28T23:20:02 < Steffanx> moving to dutchland might be one of em
2019-11-28T23:20:06 < mawk> lol
2019-11-28T23:20:10 < mawk> why ? :(
2019-11-28T23:20:42 < Steffanx> especially the politics is a bit weird lately
2019-11-28T23:21:10 < Steffanx> more than before
2019-11-28T23:21:11 < mawk> geert is causing trouble ?
2019-11-28T23:21:43 < Steffanx> no, geert just shouts a lot. no one really listens
2019-11-28T23:21:51 < Steffanx> there is thierry now
2019-11-28T23:21:59 < mawk> I like thierry
2019-11-28T23:22:01 < Steffanx> thierry scares them more nowadays
2019-11-28T23:22:03 < mawk> he has a french name
2019-11-28T23:22:21 < Steffanx> yeah
2019-11-28T23:24:47 < Steffanx> they dont like him because he talks weird and is popular.
2019-11-28T23:25:08 < mawk> and you like him ?
2019-11-28T23:25:23 < Steffanx> im not sure
2019-11-28T23:26:00 < mawk> is he extrême-droite ?
2019-11-28T23:26:33 < Cracki> >In February 2018, Baudet was confronted with the question whether there is a relation between IQ and race 
2019-11-28T23:26:48 < Cracki> wikipedia admits IQ is hugely heritable
2019-11-28T23:26:55 < Cracki> but race must not exist
2019-11-28T23:27:28 < mawk> I like him then
2019-11-28T23:27:30 < Cracki> it's like pygmys aren't short
2019-11-28T23:27:50 < Cracki> he looks like a likeable character
2019-11-28T23:28:25 < Steffanx> you might like his mate Theo even more mawk
2019-11-28T23:28:27 < Cracki> if he put some work into his beard, he could raise an index finger and be even more popular
2019-11-28T23:28:37 < Steffanx> He's old, but extremely funny
2019-11-28T23:29:24 < Thorn> should I make cutouts in the ground plane under inductors?
2019-11-28T23:29:44 < qyx> why
2019-11-28T23:29:49 < thardin> Thorn: are you working with particularly high frequency?
2019-11-28T23:30:16 < Thorn> 1.5 MHz is the maximum iirc
2019-11-28T23:30:28 < Cracki> if the coils are lying flat... which way would they induce current?
2019-11-28T23:30:37 < Cracki> *finger gymnastics*
2019-11-28T23:30:41 < Thorn> (inductors are unshielded)
2019-11-28T23:31:05 < thardin> also are you pushing any huge amounts of power through them?
2019-11-28T23:31:20 < Thorn> a few W maximum
2019-11-28T23:31:29 < Thorn> (average)
2019-11-28T23:32:00 < thardin> you should probably be fine. plenty of filter for HF have solid ground planes
2019-11-28T23:32:06 < thardin> filters*
2019-11-28T23:32:24 < thardin> or MF in this case I guess
2019-11-28T23:32:48 < thardin> you're not forming much of a loop that can bork the magnetic field so
2019-11-28T23:33:04 < thardin> assuming the axis of the coils are parallell to the ground plane
2019-11-28T23:33:13 < Cracki> discussion on ti forum: http://e2e.ti.com/support/power-management/f/196/t/538740?-DC-DC-Converter-Ground-plane-cut-below-power-inductor
2019-11-28T23:34:15 < thardin> come to think of it, this highly depends
2019-11-28T23:34:38 < thardin> if you want to avoid EMI you may need to be very sure where all your currents are going
2019-11-28T23:35:26 < thardin> Thorn: what is your application? is this just a one-off experimental thing or a product to be manufactured in X numbers?
2019-11-28T23:35:40 < Thorn> prototypes
2019-11-28T23:36:00 < karlp> Steffanx: I have no particular opinion at this point :)
2019-11-28T23:36:32 < karlp> did someone here say they'd built their own usb hubs?  I'm entertaining the idea, as cheap ones are always shit, and expensive ones are always gamer crap or just silly expensive.
2019-11-28T23:36:48 < karlp> thinking of usb2 only, but all with full port control.
2019-11-28T23:37:03 < doomba> hi karlp you don't remember me?!
2019-11-28T23:37:05 < karlp> designed for board faming
2019-11-28T23:37:09 < doomba> i'm your favorite degenerate
2019-11-28T23:37:10 < thardin> hrm, that's enough ITU RR's read for today
2019-11-28T23:37:12 < Thorn> also not every datashit even has a drawing that would show how the coil is oriented
2019-11-28T23:37:32 < thardin> why not just get a shielded coil?
2019-11-28T23:37:35 < karlp> Thorn: do any? :)
2019-11-28T23:37:41 < karlp> thardin:thorn's too cheap for that ;)
2019-11-28T23:37:53 < Thorn> thardin: I'm too cheap for that
2019-11-28T23:38:10 < thardin> for a prototype?
2019-11-28T23:38:14 < thardin> what is your time worth?
2019-11-28T23:38:53 < Steffanx> hobby time as economical value?
2019-11-28T23:39:12 < thardin> well, you do want to get your projects done in a reasonable amount of time
2019-11-28T23:42:06 < Thorn> oh wait China datashit says "magnetically shielded"
2019-11-28T23:42:41 < Thorn> it even specifies max frequency (up to 5 MHz), this is rare
2019-11-28T23:46:41 < Thorn> that's not a datashit, that's a datasheet
2019-11-28T23:47:53 < Steffanx> but is the data in it shit or real. That is the question.
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2019-11-28T23:52:32 < thardin> everything on the internet is true, therefore it is real
2019-11-28T23:54:42 < Cracki> print it out, make it fake news
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2019-11-28T23:59:12 < Thorn> electron launch T - 9 h 30 min, will attempt recovery https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GXVRhvqlzxg
2019-11-28T23:59:44 < thardin> is that the .nz rocket?
2019-11-28T23:59:55 < thardin> with the disposable batteries
--- Day changed Fri Nov 29 2019
2019-11-29T00:00:01 < Thorn> yes
2019-11-29T00:00:07 < thardin> neato
2019-11-29T00:00:54 < Thorn> >14-day launch window lol
2019-11-29T00:01:03 < Cracki> *skeleton waiting*
2019-11-29T00:01:32 < Cracki> with regular batteries I can pretend that someone disposes of them properly or recycles them
2019-11-29T00:02:00 < qyx> battery powered rocket?
2019-11-29T00:02:02 < Cracki> their space trash hopefully burns up in the atmosphere but still it's gonna spread its contents
2019-11-29T00:02:16 < thardin> it's a drop in the ocean really
2019-11-29T00:02:24 < thardin> literally for the most part
2019-11-29T00:02:33 < Cracki> punny
2019-11-29T00:02:56 < Cracki> battery powered pumps, it says on wikipedo
2019-11-29T00:03:31 < thardin> should remove a lot of complexity with turbopumps
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2019-11-29T00:04:30 < thardin> lithium primary cells might be a good choices
2019-11-29T00:04:32 < thardin> -s
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2019-11-29T00:05:17 < qyx> are they using them?
2019-11-29T00:05:39 < qyx> why, they have unuysably loiw max dfischarge current
2019-11-29T00:06:12 < thardin> hrm, right. I got things mixed up
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2019-11-29T00:17:06 < Steffanx> Lol, big fingers qyx?
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2019-11-29T00:19:50 < Thorn> has anyone tried this "platformio" thing
2019-11-29T00:20:24 < Thorn> I couldn't figure out how to configure a project for a custom target
2019-11-29T00:21:03 < Thorn> what if I'm writing code for my own device and not using any ardweensy board, shock horror
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2019-11-29T00:45:23  * karlp needs 18 usb ports for this project
2019-11-29T00:45:58 < karlp> Thorn: what wsa that ali company that made the nice usb cables? green...something?
2019-11-29T00:46:09 < Thorn> ugreen
2019-11-29T00:46:43 < Thorn> https://ugreen.aliexpress.com/store/301635
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2019-11-29T00:54:13 < kakipr0> juicebitz uk
2019-11-29T01:07:45 < specing> I wish they made 2+m long ones
2019-11-29T01:07:53 < specing> but they do not (the magnetic ones)
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2019-11-29T02:06:38 < rmaw> https://i.snipboard.io/X1OiTW.jpg
2019-11-29T02:06:38 < rmaw> wtf
2019-11-29T02:06:40 < rmaw> anyone?
2019-11-29T02:06:57 < rmaw> 2-0.23+-0.1
2019-11-29T02:07:42 < rmaw> what does that even mean
2019-11-29T02:08:07 < rmaw> if thye mean 1.77+-0.1  why does it not say that
2019-11-29T02:08:08 < Cracki> murican engineering
2019-11-29T02:08:21 < Cracki> the +- 0.1 is clear
2019-11-29T02:08:25 < Cracki> 2-0.23 must be some code
2019-11-29T02:08:35 < rmaw> yea, obviously the tolernace, yes
2019-11-29T02:08:36 < Cracki> maybe literally 2 inches minus 0.23 inches
2019-11-29T02:08:48 < Cracki> or it means two features of 0.23?
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2019-11-29T02:08:51 < rmaw> its mm, but why would you do a measurement tlike that
2019-11-29T02:09:27 < rmaw> the feature it refers to aswell is N pins 
2019-11-29T02:09:29 < Cracki> maybe some actual mech engineers know it
2019-11-29T02:09:30 < rmaw> up to 60 I think
2019-11-29T02:10:39 < Cracki> okeh 1.72 total with, the middle piece is 1.18, leaves .53 for those skirts. half that is .265
2019-11-29T02:12:55 < rmaw> where do you get 1.18 ?
2019-11-29T02:13:08 < Cracki> bottom drawing
2019-11-29T02:13:44 < Cracki> those drawings are shit
2019-11-29T02:13:48 < rmaw> yes
2019-11-29T02:13:50 < rmaw> its terrible
2019-11-29T02:14:42 < rmaw> https://snipboard.io/0IdkOZ.jpg
2019-11-29T02:14:44 < rmaw> thats the pad info
2019-11-29T02:14:53 < rmaw> insane
2019-11-29T02:15:17 < rmaw> pitch pointing at something that is clearly not the normal use of the word pitch when talking about a connector
2019-11-29T02:18:25 < rmaw> still not really sure about the top drawing on the first pic
2019-11-29T02:19:04 < rmaw> 1.18+0.27+0.27 from the bottom = 1.72 so the total width mentioned in the top
2019-11-29T02:19:26 < Cracki> .18+.08 = .26, I saw that somewhere too
2019-11-29T02:19:29 < rmaw> but the 2-0.23 in the top is the same measurement as the bottoms 2-0.27 surely
2019-11-29T02:19:36 < Cracki> not quite
2019-11-29T02:19:42 < Cracki> .04 difference
2019-11-29T02:20:03 < rmaw> ohh maybe one is the bottom of the lg
2019-11-29T02:20:04 < rmaw> leg
2019-11-29T02:20:08 < rmaw> one is the top, to the bend
2019-11-29T02:20:18 < rmaw> so thats the thickness of the legs
2019-11-29T02:20:35 < rmaw> ..mabye
2019-11-29T02:20:53 < rmaw> i'm sure it'll be fine, just like to know
2019-11-29T02:21:40 < Cracki> https://youtu.be/aBdNUhEWjW4?t=240
2019-11-29T02:22:00 < Cracki> if you want to see how other people handle things
2019-11-29T02:22:08 < rmaw> hah
2019-11-29T02:22:24 < Cracki> he's hammering nuts a lot
2019-11-29T02:23:26 < rmaw> he got it out tho
2019-11-29T02:23:28 < rmaw> good job
2019-11-29T02:23:56 < Cracki> he always does, or else grinder, or acetylene torch
2019-11-29T02:24:56 < rmaw> definately not worrying about .04mm 
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2019-11-29T04:16:15 < bitmask> wrote a whole fw without compiling once, how many errors will I have
2019-11-29T04:16:55 < kakinull> 50
2019-11-29T04:17:27 < bitmask> that wouldnt be so bad
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2019-11-29T04:24:06 < kakinull> nah
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2019-11-29T05:04:40 < englishman> unban laurenceb
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2019-11-29T05:41:55 < bitmask> no more errors
2019-11-29T05:42:47 < jadew`> man... the human brain could use a bit more functionality
2019-11-29T05:43:19 < jadew`> it should have an FPGA like region
2019-11-29T05:44:22 < jadew`> the ability to measure torque would also come in handy
2019-11-29T05:44:49 < bitmask> accurate time estimation and measure would be amazing
2019-11-29T05:45:08 < bitmask> people are aweful at that
2019-11-29T05:45:09 < jadew`> we have that to a degree, but I guess accuracy is the key word here
2019-11-29T05:45:36 < bitmask> people say be there in 5 min, 25 min later.....
2019-11-29T05:46:03 < jadew`> I guess it could be trained in school
2019-11-29T05:46:46 < bitmask> I think its more that people just don't care, it doesn't matter if they make people wait as long as they aren't the ones waiting :P I should stop being cynical 
2019-11-29T05:46:52 < jadew`> if one hour per day, for 12 years, you spend it estimating size, weight, torque and time, you'd probably get really good at it
2019-11-29T05:48:09 < jadew`> sub 1 cm is relatively easy
2019-11-29T05:48:13 < jadew`> so you can start there
2019-11-29T05:48:26 < jadew`> then you can work your way up to meters, 10s of meters, etc
2019-11-29T05:49:55 < jadew`> mountains would be measured by the best eyeballers in the world, and mountain peaks would sound like this: "2512 m above sea level, eyeballed by J. Howard"
2019-11-29T05:51:26 < jadew`> eyeballing competitions would be like the spelling bee
2019-11-29T05:53:08 < jadew`> "do you want to be a millionaire" would contain questions like: "How much butter is in a case of XBrand butter. Specify it by weight and volume."
2019-11-29T05:53:32 < Cracki> uh
2019-11-29T05:53:44 < Cracki> you realize absolute scale doesn't matter?
2019-11-29T05:54:13 < Cracki> distinguishishing 4 and 5 meters is no different from distinguishing 400 and 500 meters
2019-11-29T05:54:21 < jadew`> sure, but you need some accuracy if you want to fit something into something else
2019-11-29T05:54:52 < jadew`> I think it is different
2019-11-29T05:54:54 < Cracki> animals measure accurately enough BUT they don't translate that into numbers. we're analog computers.
2019-11-29T05:55:09 < jadew`> I mean, you can see the same difference, sure
2019-11-29T05:55:26 < jadew`> but it's more difficult to put a number on it, I think
2019-11-29T05:55:45 < Cracki> we're decent at ratios
2019-11-29T05:55:51 < jadew`> yeah
2019-11-29T05:55:55 < Cracki> pretty much all sensing is logarithmic
2019-11-29T05:56:36 < Cracki> and pretty much everything has some kind of accomodation. eyes get used to brightness or darkness, your ears get used to quiet or noise, your arms get used to heavy weights or feathers
2019-11-29T05:56:59 < Cracki> that's because absolutes are irrelevant, changes/differences matter
2019-11-29T05:57:45 < Cracki> a little something that acts like an Augmented Reality ruler would be nice
2019-11-29T05:58:01 < Cracki> or a little python(!) interpreter
2019-11-29T05:58:06 < jadew`> they are relevant in this age
2019-11-29T05:58:20 < jadew`> they weren't relevant when we were still living in the woods
2019-11-29T05:58:20 < Cracki> nah, in this age rhetoric is relevant
2019-11-29T05:58:43 < Cracki> anything you need has a tool to help you
2019-11-29T05:58:57 < jadew`> tools cost money
2019-11-29T05:59:08 < Cracki> free brains!
2019-11-29T05:59:27 < jadew`> if I could measure torque with my hand, I wouldn't have to buy an adjustable torque wrench
2019-11-29T05:59:59 < Cracki> any kind of "precision sport" already does what you're asking. any kind of ball game is about accuracy.
2019-11-29T06:00:12 < Cracki> practice then
2019-11-29T06:00:19 < jadew`> I'm considering building one, but I don't know how a high torque wrench is made so it doesn't degrade easily
2019-11-29T06:00:23 < Cracki> you'll learn quickly how a particular amount of torque feels
2019-11-29T06:00:35 < Cracki> steel spring
2019-11-29T06:01:03 < jadew`> you'll have to give me more than that
2019-11-29T06:01:05 < Cracki> and they can be fucked. there's a Home Improvement episode where one of the sons kills Tim's torque wrench
2019-11-29T06:02:07 < Cracki> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eZ9Xk0Lln5Y
2019-11-29T06:02:17 < jadew`> I guess you could have the breaking point further from the center, which would reduce the strain on the breaking mechanism
2019-11-29T06:02:24 < Cracki> electroboom except earlier
2019-11-29T06:02:30 < Cracki> breaking?
2019-11-29T06:02:49 < Cracki> nothing in a torque wrench is supposed to break
2019-11-29T06:02:57 < Cracki> it's supposed to flex tho
2019-11-29T06:03:26 < jadew`> it's the breaking action and it depends on the constructions
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2019-11-29T06:03:31 < jadew`> in some torques nothing flexes
2019-11-29T06:03:41 < jadew`> some are ball based and there's a spring pushing on the ball
2019-11-29T06:04:23 < jadew`> that's how low torque ones are made, not sure about the high torque ones
2019-11-29T06:05:02 < Cracki> so... friction mechanism?
2019-11-29T06:05:10 < jadew`> sort of, yeah
2019-11-29T06:05:15 < Cracki> sounds not exact at all
2019-11-29T06:05:26 < jadew`> it's pretty good, I've measured one
2019-11-29T06:05:43 < Cracki> i'd still want anything like a strain gauge or ordinary steel spring to give me a measurement
2019-11-29T06:06:00 < Cracki> anything that has friction will wear
2019-11-29T06:06:03 < Cracki> and that reduces friction
2019-11-29T06:06:15 < jadew`> right, that's my fear that it would wear
2019-11-29T06:06:34 < Cracki> unless you mean something like viscous oil dampeners, but those have no constant torque, but torque proportional to speed
2019-11-29T06:06:46 < Cracki> it will wear, which is why any type of friction is a HELP
2019-11-29T06:06:55 < Cracki> you adjust it so it slips at your adjusted torque point
2019-11-29T06:07:14 < Cracki> but you adjust it while looking at a gauge
2019-11-29T06:07:23 < jadew`> yeah
2019-11-29T06:07:50 < Cracki> the slip mechanism in battery drills is spring loaded too, no friction though
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2019-11-29T06:08:40 < Cracki> and so long as neither the contact faces nor the spring wear down, it'll stay consistent
2019-11-29T06:08:57 < jadew`> https://www.thingiverse.com/thing:2069847
2019-11-29T06:09:00 < jadew`> it's like this, right?
2019-11-29T06:09:13 < Cracki> it's like sliding down a staircase with your butt
2019-11-29T06:09:20 < Cracki> the slower you go, the harder the bump
2019-11-29T06:09:26 < jadew`> yeah
2019-11-29T06:09:37 < Cracki> wat am i seeing
2019-11-29T06:09:56 < jadew`> a torque screwdriver :)
2019-11-29T06:09:56 < Cracki> some slip mechanism, spring loaded
2019-11-29T06:09:59 < Cracki> looks like it
2019-11-29T06:10:00 < jadew`> yeah
2019-11-29T06:10:05 < Cracki> keep it greased well
2019-11-29T06:10:23 < Cracki> its whole action comes from that spring and force vectors on those sawteeth
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2019-11-29T06:30:27 < aandrew> "sliding down the staircase on your butt" heh
2019-11-29T06:31:37 < aandrew> that is a neat 3d printed tool
2019-11-29T06:35:55 < aandrew> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n9-VQvIFvFc
2019-11-29T06:41:16 < Cracki> wait till you see 3d printed guns
2019-11-29T06:41:28 < Cracki> whaaat can that indian slow down mabe
2019-11-29T06:41:36 < Cracki> he's already hard to understand
2019-11-29T06:41:42 < bitmask> is there any reason to implement a pause feature in a reflow oven?
2019-11-29T06:41:54 < Cracki> do they not have decent microphone where he lives, in london i presume?
2019-11-29T06:42:01 < Cracki> what does pause do?
2019-11-29T06:42:21 < bitmask> I guess maintains current temp? thats what im trying to figure out
2019-11-29T06:42:27 < Cracki> maintain temperature, i.e. pause in the profile progress?
2019-11-29T06:42:29 < Cracki> hm
2019-11-29T06:42:33 < bitmask> yes
2019-11-29T06:42:55 < Cracki> eh, if it's simple, why not. *can* be trouble tho, if you forget it's still paused
2019-11-29T06:43:11 < Cracki> might be neat to extend phase above liquidus
2019-11-29T06:43:31 < Cracki> if the profile is too chicken and you need to dwell some more
2019-11-29T06:44:27 < bitmask> hmm
2019-11-29T06:45:28 < Cracki> tbh I'd implement something like manual control where you set kelvin/minute and dial in a target and it "goes there"
2019-11-29T06:46:15 < Cracki> one rotary for speed, one for target, maybe a few buttons for preset values beside each :>
2019-11-29T06:47:48 < Cracki> press button to call up, hold button to change its preset (without calling up)
2019-11-29T06:49:22 < Cracki> that's just me and my play drive tho. just having it run a curve is the obvious purpose
2019-11-29T06:49:44 < bitmask> https://hastebin.com/ivayedapuj.txt
2019-11-29T06:49:48 < bitmask> thats the format I'm using
2019-11-29T06:50:07 < Cracki> *head tilt*
2019-11-29T06:50:07 < bitmask> somewhat based on controleo
2019-11-29T06:51:01 < Cracki> sadly I'm not enough into hybrid systems to advise (finite state machines but with continuous control components)
2019-11-29T06:51:08 < bitmask> maxpower sets the max duty cycle (for top heater, bottom heater, boost heater), ratio is top to bottom to boost ratio
2019-11-29T06:51:28 < Cracki> people do just declare a fixed curve and make the controller follow it
2019-11-29T06:51:42 < bitmask> thats basically what this is
2019-11-29T06:51:59 < bitmask> with a bit of extra pid/controller info
2019-11-29T06:52:20 < Cracki> what you have there has implicit conditionals
2019-11-29T06:52:27 < Cracki> or doesn't it
2019-11-29T06:52:33 < bitmask> such as?
2019-11-29T06:52:45 < Cracki> nvm
2019-11-29T06:52:57 < Cracki> the *power and ratio stuff isn't immediately obvious to me
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2019-11-29T06:53:16 < Cracki> in particular you command temperature AND power
2019-11-29T06:53:20 < bitmask> its mainly to limit the heaters so the board doesn't overheat
2019-11-29T06:53:31 < Cracki> I don't see why you command power. the controller has to control power to reach temp target
2019-11-29T06:54:36 < bitmask> I limit the power to avoid having heaters on full blast for too long, mostly because im just going with what a proven controller does, the only time its pure power control is when its full blast for 10 seconds when starting the reflow stage to get the heaters ramping up
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2019-11-29T07:26:02 < bitmask> meh, pause already implemented, i'll keep it
2019-11-29T07:47:45 < turnip420> phuew
2019-11-29T07:47:55 < turnip420> efnet is a mission to deal with
2019-11-29T07:48:02 < turnip420> lots of autism
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2019-11-29T08:41:15 < thardin> he said, on irc
2019-11-29T08:41:29 < thardin> that bastion of allos
2019-11-29T08:43:42 < PaulFertser> Cracki: I think that guy should be using a ring spanner in cases like that, not a socket, makes helluva difference.
2019-11-29T08:58:19 < PaulFertser> Cracki: and when he tries to use vice grip it looks absolutely hopeless; after he removed everything he could have tried plumber wrench on that sturdy nut, that might have worked. 
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2019-11-29T09:42:53 < jly> whut is cheapest stm32 with a 12bit dac
2019-11-29T09:50:40 < Thorn> electron launch T - 30 min https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GXVRhvqlzxg
2019-11-29T09:51:33 < jly> who did it
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2019-11-29T10:12:40 < Thorn> scrub
2019-11-29T10:26:16 < jly> Thorn: i need stm8
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2019-11-29T11:14:50 < Thorn> how do I rename a net on all sheets in altium disaster?
2019-11-29T11:20:40 < Thorn> ctrl+H
2019-11-29T11:21:09 < PaulFertser> jly: aren't all stm32s equipped with at least 12-bit adc?
2019-11-29T11:23:44 < jly> nah i was talking about dacs
2019-11-29T11:24:02 < jly> thought it'd be the easier thing to throw in.....
2019-11-29T11:24:04 < PaulFertser> Oh sorry
2019-11-29T11:24:13 < jly> no worries my friend
2019-11-29T11:24:58 < jly> cause in my world it seems more of a struggle to get good DNR out of an ADC....
2019-11-29T11:25:21 < PaulFertser> E.g. stm32f07 has DAC
2019-11-29T11:25:49 < jly> come to think of it, must be child's play to sigma delta an ADC
2019-11-29T11:25:58 < jly> cool
2019-11-29T11:26:37 < jly> doesn't involve hardware to sigma delta an ADC afaik
2019-11-29T11:27:13 < PaulFertser> jly: http://essentialscrap.com/tips/stm32prices/ 
2019-11-29T11:27:17 < jly> ty
2019-11-29T11:29:18 < jly> he should telegram it
2019-11-29T11:29:32 < PaulFertser> Hm, most G0 also has DAC.
2019-11-29T11:30:02 < PaulFertser> Weird why https://www.st.com/en/microcontrollers-microprocessors/stm32-mainstream-mcus.html has no Lx parts.
2019-11-29T11:30:29 < PaulFertser> Not mainstream enough, too low power :)
2019-11-29T11:30:56 < jly> m
2019-11-29T11:31:04 < jly> i fucking hate their website
2019-11-29T11:31:11 < jly> i want to stab babies
2019-11-29T11:34:19 < jly> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cqGsi9k6ra0
2019-11-29T11:57:00 < Steffanx> Hello jly  
2019-11-29T11:57:18 < jly> hi there
2019-11-29T11:58:12 < PaulFertser> jly: so what you're after. Are you seriously planning some mass product with ad-hoc sigma-delta?
2019-11-29T11:58:45 < jly> i was looking at non-stm8l15x stuff
2019-11-29T11:59:13 < jly> curious if there would be a comparable stm32 option 
2019-11-29T11:59:34 < jly> afaik stm8l151 has 2 dacs
2019-11-29T12:02:43 < jpa-> most STM32's with DAC have 2 DACs
2019-11-29T12:07:16 < jly> thanks
2019-11-29T12:07:31 < jly> lookin at the parametric search it seems so
2019-11-29T12:07:55 < Steffanx> Does it come with a PuLL filter too?
2019-11-29T12:08:05 < jly> stm8l151c8t6 is what i'm playing with... wonder if stm32 is within an arms reach
2019-11-29T12:08:33 < jly> ah steffan.... the PuLL filter has some magic to it. Can't fake it's unique characteristics......
2019-11-29T12:08:48 < jly> many have tried, failed and died.
2019-11-29T12:09:25 < jly> including an engineer who didn't believe groundplanes were of any use
2019-11-29T12:09:25 < Steffanx> This means you haven't tries yet. I'm disappointed 
2019-11-29T12:09:33 < Steffanx> Tried
2019-11-29T12:09:57 < jly> no i believe in good signal integrity and EMC basics
2019-11-29T12:11:16 < jly> and armstrong's "physics are there to make good EMC possible" philosophy 
2019-11-29T12:11:23 < Steffanx> Sounds all fucked up
2019-11-29T12:11:35 < jly> safu principle mate
2019-11-29T12:12:07 < jly> https://www.emctech.com.au/keith-armstrong-electromagnetic-em-design-techniques-2019/
2019-11-29T12:12:33 < jly> He will be teaching these techniques in Melbourne (25th to 29th of November, 2019) 
2019-11-29T12:12:39 < jly> if any of you cunts want to go
2019-11-29T12:12:47 < Steffanx> You should
2019-11-29T12:14:05 < jly> https://usercontent.irccloud-cdn.com/file/ZBtbkgqU/emc.png
2019-11-29T12:14:17 < jly> i'm more of an armstrong guy
2019-11-29T12:14:52 < jly> as in ott
2019-11-29T12:15:20 < Steffanx> Wott.
2019-11-29T12:15:39 < jly> i'm always happier to read the other guy's thing 
2019-11-29T12:15:47 < jly> see the different approach
2019-11-29T12:20:49 < jadew`> oh, I saw some lectures from that guy (Keith)
2019-11-29T12:21:37 < jly> yeah he's pretty good on the practical implementation kind of deal
2019-11-29T12:22:12 < jly> https://www.rmit.edu.au/contact/staff-contacts/academic-staff/h/holmes-professor-grahame
2019-11-29T12:22:32 < jly> this guy here was incredible with power systems and switching power converters
2019-11-29T12:23:01 < jly> he did have the time domain rhpz explanation going lol
2019-11-29T12:23:17 < jadew`> rhpz?
2019-11-29T12:23:25 < jly> right half plane zero
2019-11-29T12:23:34 < jly> non minimum phase system
2019-11-29T12:25:49 < jly> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vaU2P1naz8E
2019-11-29T12:35:39 < Steffanx> Isnt it weird to be so serious jly? Suddenly a smart arse et all :P
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2019-11-29T12:43:35 < jadew`> jly, is there any piece of software in which you can feed an impulse response and it spits out the transfer function?
2019-11-29T12:44:21 < jadew`> or a close aproximation
2019-11-29T12:48:56 < jly> psim had that feature iirc
2019-11-29T12:50:39 < jadew`> looks pricey
2019-11-29T12:50:59 < jadew`> you have to ask them to call you back
2019-11-29T12:56:07 < sync> jadew`: can't you just do DFT in octave?
2019-11-29T12:58:08 < jadew`> I suppose you could do that
2019-11-29T13:02:12 < jpa-> jadew`: in what format do you want the transfer function?
2019-11-29T13:02:25 < jpa-> i.e. are you looking for frequency response, or are you looking for z-transform?
2019-11-29T13:02:53 < jpa-> and is this IIR or FIR? for FIR it's quite trivial anyway
2019-11-29T13:05:34 < jadew`> IIR I guess
2019-11-29T13:06:05 < jpa-> do you have the infinite impulse response in some parametric form, or is your goal to feed a truncated impulse response and have it guess the rest?
2019-11-29T13:06:11 < jadew`> I just want to be able to easily model a control loop and change its parameters in software
2019-11-29T13:06:23 < jpa-> that sounds like FIR would be a better choice
2019-11-29T13:06:42 < jpa-> IIR usually only makes sense if you are limited in computation power
2019-11-29T13:19:50 < englishman> good morning innovators
2019-11-29T13:20:58 < englishman> has anyone followed the stage gate product development process
2019-11-29T13:21:55 < kuldeep> Anyone in Delhi/Gurgaon (India) looking for Firmware developer role in a product startup. Ping me!
2019-11-29T13:24:19 < jadew`> englishman, just looked it up, is that not how every product ends up on the market
2019-11-29T13:24:21 < jadew`> ?
2019-11-29T13:24:54 < englishman> pretty sure most products are just shat into a bowl all at once for the consumer to eat up
2019-11-29T13:25:33 < jadew`> https://3lsqjy1sj7i027fcn749gutj-wpengine.netdna-ssl.com/wp-content/uploads/2018/04/a320a38a-ef5a-4833-8b2f-1d00ff03ea72_image1.png
2019-11-29T13:25:42 < jadew`> that's common sense...
2019-11-29T13:25:53 < englishman> so you answer is no
2019-11-29T13:26:22 < jadew`> my answer is that if you ever built a product, the answer is yes
2019-11-29T13:27:01 < jadew`> you always start with an idea, you scope out the market, you try to figure out the business model, you build it, test it and then deliver it
2019-11-29T13:27:18 < jadew`> what am I missing?
2019-11-29T13:27:39 < kuldeep> or drop me your resume at kuldeep@madresistor.com
2019-11-29T13:29:41 < Steffanx> I wonder how many Indians we have here kuldeep  
2019-11-29T13:29:55 < Steffanx> The naked runner is the only one I know of.
2019-11-29T13:31:46 < jly> lol
2019-11-29T13:32:19 < kuldeep> Steffanx, well, I'm not ruling out personal place of dwelling for tech for my search. ;)
2019-11-29T13:32:46 < kuldeep> (ie IRC)
2019-11-29T13:33:49 < kuldeep> Steffanx, A nick don't have to sound India to be operated by an Indian. You never know who get connected :)
2019-11-29T13:39:25 < jly> i have one
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2019-11-29T14:48:20 < englishman> Thorn: https://www.technologyreview.com/s/614769/a-falling-rocket-booster-just-completely-flattened-a-building-in-china/
2019-11-29T14:51:31 < thardin> oops
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2019-11-29T15:03:25 < jpa-> could be flatter
2019-11-29T15:08:49 < jadew`> sort of NSFW: https://ae01.alicdn.com/kf/H89f527e546324212870a958679e63c8aS/Misswim-Sexy-buttons-knitted-sweater-cardigan-women-Slim-ribbed-winter-autumn-sweaters-female-Fashion-plus-size.jpg
2019-11-29T15:08:54 < jadew`> can you see it?
2019-11-29T15:10:35 < jadew`> quality photoshopping
2019-11-29T15:10:36 < jpa-> the photoshoppings?
2019-11-29T15:10:41 < jadew`> yeah
2019-11-29T15:22:59 < Steffanx> Gimp.
2019-11-29T15:23:11 < Steffanx> Photoshop is more pro
2019-11-29T15:23:37 < jadew`> I'm sure they use photoshop
2019-11-29T15:24:00 < jadew`> why wouldn't they, if it's free?
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2019-11-29T17:31:06 < kakipr0> build compulsory sauna englishman
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2019-11-29T17:36:56 < Steffanx> What does your sauna look like kakipr0  
2019-11-29T17:37:02 < Steffanx> We need pics
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2019-11-29T18:02:31 < kakipr0> nothing special
2019-11-29T18:02:40 < kakipr0> wooden box with hot stones in it
2019-11-29T18:02:50 < kakipr0> and a bench
2019-11-29T18:04:58 < kakipr0> not one of those designer saunas
2019-11-29T18:07:39 < jadew`> https://ae01.alicdn.com/kf/HLB1RQe3bdfvK1RjSspfq6zzXFXaM/Wet-Steam-Sauna-Room-Portable-Home-Bathhouse-SPA-Shower-Cabin-Loss-Weight-Body-Skin-Keeping-Sauna.jpg
2019-11-29T18:07:41 < thardin> is it sauna mummy safu?
2019-11-29T18:18:55 < Steffanx> For me its special kakipr0  
2019-11-29T18:19:04 < Steffanx> You are special too
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2019-11-29T18:28:17 < jadew`> lol, facebook ads has a "non-discrimination policy" in which they claim they're against using their platform to discriminate for age, sex, ethnicity, religion, etc
2019-11-29T18:28:40 < jadew`> at the same time, you can target people based on all of that
2019-11-29T18:28:40 < specing> lol
2019-11-29T18:28:53 < jadew`> if they could, they'd let you target them based on the color of their pubes
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2019-11-29T18:34:38 < jadew`> apparently some people were not happy that they were not getting some type of ads
2019-11-29T18:35:05 < jadew`> and the ruling was that you can't advertise to whoever you want
2019-11-29T18:36:28 < jadew`> oh, it seems like some features are removed for some types of ads
2019-11-29T18:37:25 < jadew`> they used to have a filter to advertise to people that shared interests and were demographically the same with your followers
2019-11-29T18:37:33 < jadew`> and they were forced to remove that lol
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2019-11-29T18:53:06 < Cracki> >steamed leg
2019-11-29T18:53:14 < Cracki> sounds like Schweinshaxn
2019-11-29T18:54:27 < Cracki> those doomsday cults had some more disruption of public transport today
2019-11-29T18:54:38 < Cracki> reminded me that public transport here sucks donkey ass
2019-11-29T18:55:02 < Cracki> their realtime data is absolute shit. the server refuses the request half the time.
2019-11-29T18:55:37 < Cracki> and the police are too chicken to clear intersections full of instrumentalized children
2019-11-29T18:56:19 < Cracki> if there weather machines with reasonable accuracy, I would condone calling a freezing hailstorm down on them
2019-11-29T18:56:52 < specing> "instrumentalized children" wat
2019-11-29T18:57:14 < Cracki> don't be naive
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2019-11-29T19:01:49 < Ultrasauce> congratulations
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2019-11-29T19:25:22 < Steffanx> Thank you, Ultrasauce 
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2019-11-29T19:51:44 < Thorn> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oI7S5bwxX8w https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9dkyqZdOlpc
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2019-11-29T19:53:11 < Cracki> that's not cats
2019-11-29T19:53:40 < Cracki> wew 16-track tape
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2019-11-29T20:01:47 < qyx> any recommended tht USB-C usb 2.0 connector?
2019-11-29T20:02:03 < qyx> someone was talking about this stuff recently
2019-11-29T20:02:29 < englishman> tht?!?!?!
2019-11-29T20:02:47 < Thorn> lcsc has several, some with power only, others with power & data
2019-11-29T20:02:57 < Thorn> not dirt cheap though
2019-11-29T20:05:04 < qyx> I am not expecting dirt cheap
2019-11-29T20:05:11 < qyx> englishman: yeah whats wrong
2019-11-29T20:05:33 < englishman> why not smt
2019-11-29T20:06:16 < qyx> because dual row smt usb-c is not very convenient to prototype
2019-11-29T20:07:06 < qyx> https://www.tme.eu/sk/details/usbc31sraeh2.0bkhf/konektory-usb-a-ieee1394/adam-tech/usb-c31-s-ra-eh2-0-bk-hf/
2019-11-29T20:07:14 < qyx> this thing is half-tht, half-smt
2019-11-29T20:09:05 < qyx> this one is ok too https://www.tme.eu/sk/details/217b-ag01/konektory-usb-a-ieee1394/attend/
2019-11-29T20:10:03 < aandrew> that's an in-board mounted one, interesting
2019-11-29T20:10:03 < Thorn> these look a lot like the ones on my aliexpress breakoouts
2019-11-29T20:10:39 < Thorn> (except they're not overhanging the edge)
2019-11-29T20:13:07 < Thorn> but a 2.0 type c should only have 1 row of pins
2019-11-29T20:13:19 < Thorn> unless I'm mistaken
2019-11-29T20:19:58 < kakipr0> you think they make connectors with limited amount of pins?
2019-11-29T20:20:11 < kakipr0> *limited set
2019-11-29T20:20:20 < kakipr0> for prototyping
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2019-11-29T20:25:33 < qyx> no
2019-11-29T20:33:42 < aandrew> for prototyping you shuld just use those tiny USBC breakouts 
2019-11-29T20:37:06 < rue_bed2> but can they handle the 1000w device rating? :)
2019-11-29T20:38:05 < Cracki> lox cooled
2019-11-29T20:38:25 < Cracki> well maybe ln2, less reactive
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2019-11-29T20:39:15 < Cracki> is there any type of usb that goes above 60 watts (20v 3a) right now?
2019-11-29T20:39:22 < Cracki> 20v 5a maybe?
2019-11-29T20:39:47 < Cracki> poe over usb >_>
2019-11-29T20:40:04 < qyx> a pou
2019-11-29T20:41:28 < thardin> poeou
2019-11-29T20:42:47 < Cracki> oui
2019-11-29T20:42:51 < qyx> power over wireless ethernet router sounds like GNU
2019-11-29T20:43:14 < Cracki> power over gnu mating sounds
2019-11-29T20:50:00 < aandrew> ... gnu mating sounds? jesus thanks for that. I've gotta go wash my ears now.
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2019-11-29T20:53:29 < aandrew> I'm not aware of 1kW USBC. isn't 100W the standard and that's only 5A at 20V
2019-11-29T21:01:31 < Thorn> usb teapots when
2019-11-29T21:05:14 < kakipr0> https://drive.google.com/file/d/1oWk5WmuXFmrSy_JJdlAIpIn-CxwOzovD/view?usp=sharing
2019-11-29T21:14:14 < Cracki> tiny tiny teapots
2019-11-29T21:14:43 < Cracki> there might be a "tea thimble" attachment for one of those usb-c-powered soldering irons
2019-11-29T21:15:11 < Cracki> battery standing up o.o
2019-11-29T21:16:27 < Cracki> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Dp4Fv7fO2Us
2019-11-29T21:16:45 < Cracki> imagine RMS while hearing those sounds
2019-11-29T21:22:50 < englishman> ooohhh floating mezzanine connectors
2019-11-29T21:23:11 < englishman> qyx: the hybrid usbC is standard, it's in the spec
2019-11-29T21:23:15 < englishman> didn't you read the spec
2019-11-29T21:24:03 < qyx> no of course
2019-11-29T21:26:02 < qyx> you mean the footprint is stamdardized?
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2019-11-29T21:48:28 < kakipr0> what is floating mezzanine?
2019-11-29T21:49:41 < Steffanx> Did you ask google images?
2019-11-29T21:49:44 < Steffanx> duckduckgo?
2019-11-29T21:49:50 < kakipr0> no
2019-11-29T21:50:25 < Steffanx> i think its a thing where are images says more than a 1000 words.
2019-11-29T21:50:42 < Steffanx> *where an image
2019-11-29T21:51:32 < kakipr0> what is the difference to just mezzanine connector?
2019-11-29T21:51:51 < Cracki> > can compensate for alignment errors up to ± 0.3 mm in both the X- and Y-axis https://www.connectortips.com/floating-3-piece-mezzanine-connector-hirose-supports-high-speed-transmission-15-gbps/
2019-11-29T21:52:16 < Steffanx> Sorry. kakipr0 i was trying to confuse you :P
2019-11-29T21:52:21 < Cracki> sound like something you'd use flex for, but flex isn't fast enough
2019-11-29T21:52:22 < Steffanx> did it work?
2019-11-29T21:53:29 < Cracki> >allows for multiple connectors to be used in a mezzanine design reducing the stress on solder joints caused by misaligned connectors
2019-11-29T21:55:35 < kakipr0> okay so shit is serious when you have floating mezzanine connectors
2019-11-29T21:56:13 < Thorn> what do you mean by floating
2019-11-29T21:56:26 < Thorn> not at the edge of the pcb?
2019-11-29T21:57:13 < Ultrasauce> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3LhettZajAU musicspam of a different variety than usual
2019-11-29T21:58:00 < Steffanx> whats next Ultrasauce? Some hang drum music?
2019-11-29T21:59:20 < Steffanx> handpan or wahtever they call it
2019-11-29T22:02:25 < Ultrasauce> sure https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2tVs_R8-WT0
2019-11-29T22:02:56 < Steffanx> could actually be worse.
2019-11-29T22:04:33 < Steffanx> kakipr0 the speed/frequency look more serious to me, than just the floating part of it. 
2019-11-29T22:06:02 < Steffanx> anyway, who needs this when there is SMA. Will your new project even have an SMA, kakipr0?
2019-11-29T22:07:55 < Steffanx> where do you even find this random music Ultrasauce?
2019-11-29T22:08:15 < Steffanx> cant be random yt searches
2019-11-29T22:08:18 < Steffanx> queries
2019-11-29T22:10:57 < Ultrasauce> the latter is one of my favourite albums. the former i found in a musicforprogramming set
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2019-11-29T22:18:11 < Thorn> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wXQCPAR0EHo <-- real music
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2019-11-29T22:23:23 < Ultrasauce> this is my favourite rachmaninov piece https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VXU7I_Yyi2Y
2019-11-29T22:23:33 < Ultrasauce> dude had big hands, we all know what that means
2019-11-29T22:23:39 < Ultrasauce> big chords
2019-11-29T22:23:43 < Steffanx> except it does not exist no more.
2019-11-29T22:23:50 < Steffanx> thats what yt tells me
2019-11-29T22:23:56 < Ultrasauce> oh i got SaaS'd
2019-11-29T22:24:19 < Ultrasauce> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g7RVYejgADw
2019-11-29T22:31:48 < Thorn> another version of the same https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SlcQWUn5DeI
2019-11-29T22:42:21 < kakipr0> Steffanx: floating part of it enables those speeds
2019-11-29T22:42:36 < kakipr0> better mating
2019-11-29T22:43:12 < kakipr0> do you know any spi mux?
2019-11-29T22:43:24 < kakipr0> I need it to go 3 or 4 ways
2019-11-29T22:43:44 < aandrew> kakipr0 define mux
2019-11-29T22:43:55 < kakipr0> multiplexer
2019-11-29T22:43:56 < aandrew> one master, multiple slaves, multimaster, what?
2019-11-29T22:44:00 < kakipr0> one master
2019-11-29T22:44:03 < kakipr0> multiple slaves
2019-11-29T22:44:06 < mawk> I did my first embedded stuff at my embedded job
2019-11-29T22:44:12 < aandrew> generally you don't need to mux that
2019-11-29T22:44:19 < mawk> reverse engineer student code from 5 years ago on which the whole company is built like a castle of cards
2019-11-29T22:44:41 < mawk> everything from UART to wireless is done inside interrupts
2019-11-29T22:44:47 < aandrew> you tie all the MOSI, MISO and SCK together and then have individual SS#. However you must check and make sure that the slaves tri-state their MISO lines when not selected first
2019-11-29T22:45:12 < kakipr0> sure
2019-11-29T22:45:20 < kakipr0> but I want to multiplex anyway
2019-11-29T22:45:27 < aandrew> if they don't you can easily just take one of those single-gate buffers and use it 
2019-11-29T22:46:30 < Steffanx> student as in intern, mawk?
2019-11-29T22:47:06 < mawk> the company was founded as a spinoff of a student project of delft university I think
2019-11-29T22:47:11 < Steffanx> ah
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2019-11-29T23:02:24 < Steffanx> time for that fpga/cpld kakipr0 :P
2019-11-29T23:06:44 < PaulFertser> Folks, an OpenOCD user reports: new bluepills come with a fake stm32 which has different SWD ID 0x2ba01477 (instead of 0x1ba01477). Chances are it's a CS32F103C8T6. And test confirmed just 64k is available, not 128k as on the original ST parts.
2019-11-29T23:07:37 < catphish> i have been hearing that the "fake" STM32F103 have problems with DMA
2019-11-29T23:08:58 < PaulFertser> catphish: with DMA in general or some specific periph?
2019-11-29T23:10:01 < Steffanx> Time to move on to those newer F401/F411 boards.
2019-11-29T23:10:05 < Steffanx> until they get cloned
2019-11-29T23:10:36 < catphish> PaulFertser: i'm afraid i don't know the details, something about DMA interrupts not working as they should maybe
2019-11-29T23:22:01 < qyx> englishman: this? Figure 3-6 Reference Footprint for a USB Type-C Hybrid Right-Angle Receptacle
2019-11-29T23:22:04 < qyx> (Informative)
2019-11-29T23:22:18 < qyx> the informative word I don't like
2019-11-29T23:23:31 < catphish> PaulFertser: details here: https://github.com/keirf/Greaseweazle/wiki/STM32-Fakes
2019-11-29T23:23:53 < catphish> specifically "DMA peripheral generates spurious extra completion interrupts and is generally prone to lockup"
2019-11-29T23:24:27 < vampi-the-frog> lol
2019-11-29T23:24:33 < vampi-the-frog> never trust a chinaman
2019-11-29T23:25:06 < PaulFertser> catphish: thanks!
2019-11-29T23:26:17 < catphish> see also https://github.com/keirf/Greaseweazle/blob/master/src/blinky.c - this script runs various tests that return different  results on fakes
2019-11-29T23:27:04 < PaulFertser> Very useful indeed, much appreciated.
2019-11-29T23:28:06 < vampi-the-frog> fake and gay
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2019-11-29T23:53:28 < Spirit532> PaulFertser, catphish I have a bunch of these fakes
2019-11-29T23:53:32 < Spirit532> DO NOT BUY THEM
2019-11-29T23:53:39 < Spirit532> 1) USB is dead, totally fucked, doesn't work
2019-11-29T23:53:53 < Spirit532> (the timings are WAY off, you have to do lots of trickery to even get it to identify)
2019-11-29T23:53:58 < Spirit532> 2) DMA is just half broken
2019-11-29T23:54:05 < Spirit532> 3) it's not really compatible with the stm32f103
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2019-11-29T23:56:58 < kakipr0> Steffanx: can you speak of micropower and programable logic in same sentence
2019-11-29T23:57:06 < Spirit532> sort of
2019-11-29T23:57:13 < Spirit532> but generally not
2019-11-29T23:57:27 < Spirit532> you do your prototyping on programmable logic, then you go to an asic vendor who does block assemblies
2019-11-29T23:57:41 < Spirit532> you feed them your HDL, they hit "go" and out pops a chip that's basically your HDL but in silicon
2019-11-29T23:57:56 < kakipr0> no
2019-11-29T23:58:06 < kakipr0> this is not the usecase for asic
2019-11-29T23:58:14 < Spirit532> micropower is asic
2019-11-29T23:58:22 < Spirit532> programmable logic is generally not used in micropower
2019-11-29T23:58:24 < Spirit532> if ever
2019-11-29T23:58:59 < kakipr0> and then you buy 100chips
2019-11-29T23:59:11 < Spirit532> generally 1000 to 100 000
2019-11-29T23:59:13 < kakipr0> suddenly your cheap board is 1000eurs a piece
2019-11-29T23:59:18 < Spirit532> not really
2019-11-29T23:59:27 < Spirit532> your chip will cost cents a piece if you buy a huge run
2019-11-29T23:59:29 < kakipr0> if you make 100 or 1000 of them
2019-11-29T23:59:30 < Spirit532> downside: you buy a huge run
2019-11-29T23:59:42 < kakipr0> and pay tooling costs
2019-11-29T23:59:51 < Spirit532> that's what the asic vendors DON'T do
2019-11-29T23:59:55 < catphish> Spirit532: yeah people seem unhappy with them, but stupidly, most of the blue pill dev boards are filled with them now :(
--- Day changed Sat Nov 30 2019
2019-11-30T00:00:05 < Spirit532> you don't get to make custom chips, BUT you get cheaper chips
2019-11-30T00:00:19 < Spirit532> they just provide a set of blocks you can bolt together that they already have masks for
2019-11-30T00:00:29 < Spirit532> build-a-bear but build-a-chip
2019-11-30T00:02:12 < kakipr0> so what kind of blocks thet have?
2019-11-30T00:02:23 < Spirit532> each vendor has their own selection
2019-11-30T00:02:30 < Spirit532> generally just all the logic stuff you'd use
2019-11-30T00:02:31 < kakipr0> in example?
2019-11-30T00:02:40 < Spirit532> anything from flip-flops to state machines
2019-11-30T00:02:55 < catphish> Spirit532: how does one get these build-a-bear chips?
2019-11-30T00:03:08 < Spirit532> you talk to a vendor and offer them lots of money
2019-11-30T00:03:19 < Spirit532> sign a contract to manufacture 10 000 chips
2019-11-30T00:03:19 < catphish> who sells them?
2019-11-30T00:04:04 < catphish> mind you, with stm32 having all the peripherals to choose fro anyway, it seems a but pointless to mix and match peripherals into a custom IC
2019-11-30T00:04:10 < catphish> *bit
2019-11-30T00:04:44 < Steffanx> I know kakipr0 . But you keep adding more stuff.. I wonder how low power it will actually be
2019-11-30T00:04:49 < specing> what the hell is micropower
2019-11-30T00:05:07 < Spirit532> microwatt designs
2019-11-30T00:05:21 < Spirit532> single digit milliwatts 
2019-11-30T00:05:24 < specing> ok
2019-11-30T00:08:13 < kakipr0> I thought it was for microamperes
2019-11-30T00:08:13 < Steffanx> There are a few "low power" cpld/fpgas, but during my 5 minute search I never found real usage consumption
2019-11-30T00:08:42 < zyp> not sure what the context here is, I just came home, but doesn't sleepy designs qualify?
2019-11-30T00:08:53 < qyx> sleepy fpga?
2019-11-30T00:10:57 < Spirit532> yeah
2019-11-30T00:11:01 < Spirit532> gating clocks could work
2019-11-30T00:11:14 < Spirit532> but at that point it seems like you'd just want... a regular chip
2019-11-30T00:12:00 < qyx> did anyone do SFP cage for stm32?
2019-11-30T00:12:07 < Spirit532> why?
2019-11-30T00:12:10 < qyx> or any other SFP-MII design
2019-11-30T00:13:11 < qyx> I want a FO to my stm32
2019-11-30T00:13:19 < Spirit532> why?
2019-11-30T00:14:02 < qyx> because long run, very hill, much lightning
2019-11-30T00:14:07 < qyx> also because I can
2019-11-30T00:14:16 < qyx> just curious
2019-11-30T00:14:17 < Spirit532> fair point
2019-11-30T00:14:35 < zyp> qyx, also curious
2019-11-30T00:14:46 < qyx> and radio is a no go because it is.. radio
2019-11-30T00:14:57 < qyx> it is for my vlf receiver
2019-11-30T00:15:00 < zyp> IIRC SFP talks SFI, which is gigabit serdes something
2019-11-30T00:15:17 < Spirit532> I mean you could probably just bolt the laser diode to some GPIO pins
2019-11-30T00:15:23 < Spirit532> light is light
2019-11-30T00:15:27 < qyx> yeah, another option
2019-11-30T00:15:28 < zyp> and I'm not sure you can realisticly hook that up to a MII/RMII MAC
2019-11-30T00:15:31 < qyx> maybe even analog
2019-11-30T00:15:45 < qyx> zyp: I have seen a design once exactly doing this
2019-11-30T00:15:50 < Spirit532> the SFP transceivers themselves are laser diodes and photodiodes
2019-11-30T00:15:57 < Spirit532> so if you want serial, just hook them up directly
2019-11-30T00:16:02 < Spirit532> and it SHOULD work
2019-11-30T00:16:09 < qyx> they are not
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2019-11-30T00:16:17 < Spirit532> dumb transceivers are
2019-11-30T00:16:25 < zyp> qyx, running actual ethernet over the fiber?
2019-11-30T00:16:33 < qyx> zyp: seems to be the easiest solution
2019-11-30T00:16:43 < qyx> than arduining up some uart-over-fo or whatever
2019-11-30T00:17:51 < qyx> curious about what, how to do the same
2019-11-30T00:18:14 < qyx> or why do I have insane thoughs
2019-11-30T00:19:57 < zyp> I bet easiest way is a switch chip in between
2019-11-30T00:20:15 < zyp> maybe one that can talk both RMII and SFI
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2019-11-30T00:22:14 < qyx> https://www.microchip.com/wwwproducts/en/LAN9355
2019-11-30T00:22:17 < qyx> looks promising
2019-11-30T00:22:28 < qyx> 100BASE-FX is
2019-11-30T00:22:29 < qyx> supported via an external fiber transceiver.
2019-11-30T00:23:11 < kakipr0> do I have any potential use for NJTRST?
2019-11-30T00:23:13 < zyp> huh, SFP but not gigabit
2019-11-30T00:23:43 < qyx> yeah marked as legacy
2019-11-30T00:23:44 < zyp> might not play along unless other end supports dual rate
2019-11-30T00:23:49 < qyx> lets check
2019-11-30T00:24:12 < zyp> AFAIK most fiber stuff is single rate
2019-11-30T00:24:31 < englishman> zyp: picked up tesla today
2019-11-30T00:24:40 < zyp> I have some that does dual 1G/10G
2019-11-30T00:24:43 < zyp> cool
2019-11-30T00:24:46 < zyp> TM3?
2019-11-30T00:26:00 < PaulFertser> kakipr0: not on stm32, no
2019-11-30T00:26:36 < qyx> there is a UBNT UF-SM-1G-S
2019-11-30T00:26:48 < qyx> which is described as a 1.25 Gbps SFP
2019-11-30T00:27:19 < kakipr0> paulferzer: it doesn't matter in what state that pin is in boot?
2019-11-30T00:27:33 < kakipr0> it's the only thing I need to know
2019-11-30T00:29:20 < zyp> qyx, what about it? looks like a fairly standard bidi SFP
2019-11-30T00:29:29 < PaulFertser> kakipr0: for debugging with jtag?
2019-11-30T00:29:48 < zyp> IIRC all gigabit SFPs are described as 1.25
2019-11-30T00:30:01 < kakipr0> no but for normal booting and I don't debug with jtag
2019-11-30T00:30:03 < zyp> I guess SFI does 8b10b
2019-11-30T00:30:14 < PaulFertser> kakipr0: then afaict it doesn't matter.
2019-11-30T00:31:29 < qyx> zyp: thats the point, nothing specific written
2019-11-30T00:34:13 < zyp> qyx, about what?
2019-11-30T00:40:58 < qyx> 1000Base-X, 100Base-FX Compatible With SFP
2019-11-30T00:40:59 < qyx> MSA Specification
2019-11-30T00:41:05 < qyx> this thing is the keyword
2019-11-30T00:43:14 < qyx> fiber ethernet PMD/sgmii
2019-11-30T00:56:47 < Spirit532> just get a pair of dumb transceivers
2019-11-30T00:56:51 < Spirit532> and OOK them for serial
2019-11-30T00:58:07 < kakipr0> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cTFfvXdyyAQ musics
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2019-11-30T01:10:43 < Steffanx> Should've spammes this kakipr0  https://youtu.be/_Ci0Kgdpgsw a tribute to dongs
2019-11-30T01:10:52 < Steffanx> Spammed*
2019-11-30T01:11:13 < kakipr0> I thought is was song of dongs
2019-11-30T01:11:44 < Steffanx> Nah the artist likes him much. So named after him
2019-11-30T01:11:50 < kakipr0> but the song itself is quite basic so I didn't
2019-11-30T01:12:22 < Steffanx> It's better
2019-11-30T01:12:38 < Steffanx> Basic is good
2019-11-30T01:20:03 < kakipr0> where is the dongs?
2019-11-30T01:20:34 < kakipr0> I will wait and chats with him later
2019-11-30T01:22:55 < Steffanx> Will you now?
2019-11-30T01:23:15 < kakipr0> sure
2019-11-30T01:23:16 < qyx> re: my kicad rage, you have to check "All units are not interchangeable" checkbox
2019-11-30T01:29:03 < Thorn> can you send GPIO_PIN_CFG before POWER_UP (si4463)?
2019-11-30T01:35:22 < kakipr0> have you read power up sequence?
2019-11-30T01:39:22 < Thorn> it doesn't seem to be explicitly prohibited anywhere
2019-11-30T01:45:02 < kakipr0> why you ask?
2019-11-30T01:45:29 < Thorn> because I didn't connect GPIO1 to the mcu
2019-11-30T01:46:13 < kakipr0> so you want to disable driver first?
2019-11-30T01:46:39 < Thorn> I want to configure GPIO0 as CTS asap
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2019-11-30T02:28:32 < Cracki> fuuuck I hate interlaced video
2019-11-30T02:29:09 < Cracki> gotta deinterlace it before you can edit it in any meaningful way
2019-11-30T02:29:32 < Cracki> needless expenditure of computation
2019-11-30T02:47:53 < qyx> octavo SiP https://i.imgur.com/l5uf9gf.png
2019-11-30T02:53:27 < Cracki> that looks cramped
2019-11-30T02:53:40 < Cracki> or gonna be
2019-11-30T02:56:25 < zyp> nice
2019-11-30T03:18:38 < Spirit532> the octavio is hecka expensive for what it is 
2019-11-30T03:18:42 < Spirit532> $25 @ 1ku
2019-11-30T03:18:55 < Spirit532> octavo*
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2019-11-30T03:19:28 < Spirit532> yikes, $41 in single quantities
2019-11-30T03:19:30 < Spirit532> that's nuts
2019-11-30T03:19:31 < qyx> better than some arduino yun or similar
2019-11-30T03:19:39 < Spirit532> fourty one dollars!
2019-11-30T03:19:45 < qyx> for $19 and already dead
2019-11-30T03:19:52 < qyx> or onions for $10
2019-11-30T03:20:02 < qyx> will be dead before 2020
2019-11-30T03:20:16 < Spirit532> octavo is dead on arrival at that price
2019-11-30T03:33:47 < Spirit532> so regarding my motor control thing from a bit ago:
2019-11-30T03:34:01 < Spirit532> How important is it to have three shunts versus two?
2019-11-30T03:34:17 < Spirit532> Could I get away with just two low-side shunts, and the third phase going directly to ground?
2019-11-30T03:35:45 < qyx> starting to look better https://i.imgur.com/NvSr97Z.png
2019-11-30T03:36:06 < Spirit532> is that altium?
2019-11-30T03:36:19 < Spirit532> doesn't look like kicad unless it's a weird color scheme
2019-11-30T03:39:36 < qyx> nice color scheme in kicad
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2019-11-30T06:13:10 < jly> hello stm32 people
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2019-11-30T07:58:00 < machinehum> So what's the deal with cr's in the md file
2019-11-30T07:58:30 < machinehum> People just put them where their screen ends"
2019-11-30T07:58:33 < machinehum> ?
2019-11-30T08:15:18 < jpa-> .md and .rst are often read as text files, so 80 columns is pretty ok
2019-11-30T08:16:05 < jadew`> oh, that's what he meant
2019-11-30T08:16:16 < jadew`> always found that to be dumb
2019-11-30T08:16:30 < jadew`> you can set your editor to wrap lines at whatever column you want
2019-11-30T08:16:57 < jadew`> then it will look good on any resolution
2019-11-30T08:17:04 < machinehum> You force it to put a cr there?
2019-11-30T08:17:15 < jadew`> it doesn't put an actual cr
2019-11-30T08:17:25 < jadew`> but it breaks the line there, yeah
2019-11-30T08:17:37 < jadew`> so you have a single line... on two lines
2019-11-30T08:17:40 < jadew`> or more
2019-11-30T08:18:19 < jadew`> but generally, you can just let it unset and have it wrap at whatever the width of the screen is
2019-11-30T08:20:33 < jpa-> atleast my terminal just wraps at the boundary instead of doing word wrapping, which is pretty annoying
2019-11-30T08:20:58 < jpa-> and even worse for code examples
2019-11-30T08:21:18 < jadew`> you mean it splits the word in two?
2019-11-30T08:22:59 < jpa-> yeah
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2019-11-30T08:23:27 < jadew`> that's weird, which editor are you using?
2019-11-30T08:23:59 < jpa-> i said "terminal"
2019-11-30T08:24:02 < jpa-> i.e. "less README.md"
2019-11-30T08:24:04 < jadew`> oh, missed that
2019-11-30T08:24:25 < jadew`> that could be fixed
2019-11-30T08:24:40 < jpa-> for me, sure; for the people consuming docs i make, nope
2019-11-30T08:26:48 < jadew`> well, I'm of the philosophy that you have to work with what you have, not against it, so I guess it's ok in that case
2019-11-30T08:32:52 < machinehum> tensorflow/tensorflow/lite/experimental/micro/README.md
2019-11-30T08:33:12 < machinehum> cr's
2019-11-30T08:33:36 < machinehum> at the end of what they determined to be lines
2019-11-30T08:35:51 < jpa-> that's linefeed, not cr
2019-11-30T08:36:06 < jpa-> but yeah, looks pretty much the same as how i do it   https://raw.githubusercontent.com/tensorflow/tensorflow/master/tensorflow/lite/experimental/micro/README.md
2019-11-30T08:36:17 < jadew`> they're taking advantage of the fact that markdown ignores them
2019-11-30T08:36:53 < jadew`> I guess they assume people are going to read that from the terminal, lije jpa- mentioned
2019-11-30T08:36:58 < jadew`> but I doubt anyone ever did
2019-11-30T08:37:55 < jpa-> considering machinehum saw the linefeeds, he's certainly not reading a formatted version; i wonder why anyone would read it in an editor if they are not editing it, why not just read the formatted version then
2019-11-30T08:38:09 < aandrew> balls, my altium license has expired
2019-11-30T08:38:17 < aandrew> now I gotta get the next-youngest kid to register
2019-11-30T08:38:21 < jpa-> but yeah, it gets more annoying to edit when it has baked in linefeeds
2019-11-30T08:38:31 < jadew`> jpa-, since it's md, you have the best experience viewing it with a viewer
2019-11-30T08:38:43 < jadew`> in which case, the line feeds wouldn't matter
2019-11-30T08:38:56 < jadew`> aandrew, heh
2019-11-30T08:39:10 < jadew`> you had a student license?
2019-11-30T08:39:57 < jpa-> aandrew: go pro, use kicad
2019-11-30T08:39:58 < jadew`> jpa-, probably a good solution for that would be to have an editor that removes the line feeds that would otherwise be ignored by md
2019-11-30T08:40:06 < jadew`> and add them back when you save
2019-11-30T08:40:20 < jadew`> that way, you would edit like a sane man and the result would be what you wanted it to be
2019-11-30T08:41:07 < jpa-> nano is nice in that you can just edit it and then CTRL-J to update the wordwraps
2019-11-30T08:41:34 < aandrew> jadew`: yes
2019-11-30T08:41:40 < aandrew> $100 vs $4000
2019-11-30T08:41:55 < jadew`> neat
2019-11-30T08:42:01 < jadew`> I think the 4000 one is perpetual tho
2019-11-30T08:42:03 < jadew`> isn't it?
2019-11-30T08:42:10 < jadew`> you just don't get support
2019-11-30T08:42:21 < aandrew> dunno, it's still more than I'm willing to pay for Alitum
2019-11-30T08:42:31 < jadew`> yeah, I wouldn't pay that much either
2019-11-30T08:42:40 < jadew`> I've learned to live with kicad
2019-11-30T08:43:03 < jadew`> which once in a while ends up getting a surprisingly nice feature
2019-11-30T08:43:14 < aandrew> yeah I'm probably going to jump ship
2019-11-30T08:43:23 < aandrew> I liked eagle because it was multiplatform
2019-11-30T08:43:40 < aandrew> and altium is decent, but kicad is making enormous leaps and bounds with its abilities
2019-11-30T08:43:56 < aandrew> the schematic editor is so. fucking. ugly. though... worse than eagle ever was
2019-11-30T08:44:08 < jadew`> I don't mind it
2019-11-30T08:45:36 < jadew`> if you switch to kicad, make sure to join #kicad and ask if it supports colored nets
2019-11-30T08:45:57 < jadew`> I do that once in a while, in the hope that someone will pick up that feature request and implement it :P
2019-11-30T08:47:30 < jadew`> in fact, it's been a while, I'm going to do that just now
2019-11-30T08:47:43 < jadew`> *now
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2019-11-30T08:55:51 < aandrew> heh I've never used that in any other package
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2019-11-30T09:02:00 < Sadale> For professional use I'd just stick with whatever others use. :p
2019-11-30T09:02:10 < Sadale> For hobbyist uses, of course I'd go for the free ones like kicad. :3
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2019-11-30T09:07:10 < jpa-> sure, if you are not the only electronics designer in team/company
2019-11-30T09:07:27 < englishman> pulling the car out of the garage using my phone while wifeishman was in it was kinda trippy
2019-11-30T09:08:31 < englishman> lol kicad
2019-11-30T09:08:48 < jpa-> "wifeishman" sounds kinda trippy also
2019-11-30T09:09:04 < englishman> altiums SVN/git support is fucking amazing
2019-11-30T09:09:35 < englishman> definitely professional software
2019-11-30T09:18:26 < Sadale> The only PCB software I've used is kicad. So I can't really tell how crappy/powerful it is.
2019-11-30T09:19:23 < Sadale> Anyway this reminds me that someone from a parallel channel told me that he led the company to switch from microsoft office to libreoffice. It sounded pretty funny to me. I know he loves FOSS. But still, it sounds like a bad move.
2019-11-30T09:20:10 < Sadale> And I don't think the company he's working for would care about the subscription fee of microsoft office at all. It's nothing compared with the salary and the productivity gained by using the software.
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2019-11-30T09:30:38 < jadew`> Sadale, my wife works in a huge company and they use libreoffice too
2019-11-30T09:31:09 < jpa-> there was a time when MS Office UI changed enough that people would gain productivity by switching to libreoffice, because it was more similar to the old office
2019-11-30T09:31:37 < jadew`> yeah, that was a thing too
2019-11-30T09:32:01 < jadew`> thing is, there's not much you can add to office tools to make them more useful to regular joe
2019-11-30T09:32:28 < jadew`> they barely use any of the features anyway
2019-11-30T09:33:30 < jadew`> as long as you can write, add tables and center text, you have satisfied much of the customer base
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2019-11-30T09:49:55 < jpa-> jadew`: except the killer feature, being able to open documents made by others and have them look correct
2019-11-30T09:50:05 < jpa-> libreoffice is reasonably good at that nowadays, but not perfect
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2019-11-30T11:46:12 < Sadale> The main problem with libreoffice is compatibility with microsoft office, which's what most people are using. Other than that, libreoffice isn't bad at all IMO.
2019-11-30T11:46:37 < Sadale> compatibility issue tends to occur for complex and obscure features.
2019-11-30T11:46:47 < Sadale> anyway it's good most of the time.
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2019-11-30T12:19:18 < PaulFertser> Sadale: what good is it for?
2019-11-30T12:19:35 < Sadale> libreoffice? It's free and open source. And it works. :P
2019-11-30T12:19:43 < PaulFertser> Sadale: works what for?
2019-11-30T12:20:02 < Sadale> huh? It just funtions well as an office software. What are you expecting?
2019-11-30T12:20:23 < PaulFertser> Sadale: I mean I do not see a sane usecase for software of that type at all.
2019-11-30T12:20:55 < Sadale> I mainly use its spreadsheet for handling data.
2019-11-30T12:21:05 < Sadale> Sometimes I use its writer as an advance text editor.
2019-11-30T12:21:13 < Sadale> I rarely use it's presentation software.
2019-11-30T12:21:52 < PaulFertser> The spreadsheet idea is kinda weird. People are starting to implement complex processing with it ending with something really fragile and error-prone. I'm not sure it's any good for any regular usage.
2019-11-30T12:22:57 < Sadale> so what are the alternatives? spreadsheet's intuitive and easy to use.
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2019-11-30T12:23:18 < Sadale> Sometimes I just don't feel like developing a script specifically for performing calculation for simple stuffs
2019-11-30T12:24:02 < PaulFertser> If you need a data processing flow then you have plenty of instruments. Octave, R, Python, SPSS, whatever. You code it, then use it, data is fully separate from implementation, reliable and managable.
2019-11-30T12:24:20 < PaulFertser> For one-off job I can see how a "spreadsheet" can be occassionally useful.
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2019-11-30T12:27:15 < Sadale> That's exactly my point. spreadsheet is good for simpler stuffs.
2019-11-30T12:29:48 < jly> is laurence dead?
2019-11-30T12:30:16 < Steffanx> He'll do fine in hell
2019-11-30T12:30:49 < mawk> he got fired I think
2019-11-30T12:30:53 < mawk> so maybe not in the mood for irc
2019-11-30T12:30:55 < mawk> he went on 4chan at work so university fired him
2019-11-30T12:31:05 < Steffanx> Was that it?
2019-11-30T12:31:21 < mawk> yes
2019-11-30T12:31:24 < Steffanx> Or didnt he get the job done
2019-11-30T12:31:34 < mawk> they said it's a porn site or something
2019-11-30T12:31:40 < mawk> no he did a good job I think
2019-11-30T12:31:58 < Steffanx> Keep thinking that :P
2019-11-30T12:32:01 < PaulFertser> Is it true mawk, did he tell it to you in person?
2019-11-30T12:32:12 < mawk> yes PaulFertser 
2019-11-30T12:32:36 < mawk> maybe it will make the news some day
2019-11-30T12:32:53 < mawk> UNIVERSITY RESEARCHER WENT TO MASS KILLING WEBSITE ON WORK COMPUTER
2019-11-30T12:32:59 < Steffanx> I've learnt his truth isnt always the entire truth
2019-11-30T12:33:15 < Steffanx> Learned?
2019-11-30T12:33:17 < PaulFertser> It's not only porn there on 4chan though, but I guess there's enough to consider it to be a "porn site" :)
2019-11-30T12:33:51 < mawk> learnt
2019-11-30T12:35:25 < Steffanx> Shouldn't you not tell things he told you in private mawk?
2019-11-30T12:35:33 < Steffanx> Or wasnt it private 
2019-11-30T12:36:08 < mawk> it wasn't private
2019-11-30T12:37:30 < Steffanx> Ok
2019-11-30T12:37:48 < mawk> it was on another channel
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2019-11-30T12:41:04 < Steffanx> So did you wake up your gf with wannabe french croissants yet, mawk?
2019-11-30T12:41:49 < Steffanx> I mean, fake or wannabe, not both
2019-11-30T12:43:24 < PaulFertser> So is stm8 worth it only when you plan 100+ devices?
2019-11-30T12:44:23 < jly> that's the question
2019-11-30T12:44:37 < jly> i'm using stm8l15x because i need the 12bit dac
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2019-11-30T12:49:41 < PaulFertser> jly: but plenty of stm32 variants have 12bit dac.
2019-11-30T12:49:55 < jly> yes
2019-11-30T12:50:07 < jly> and stm32 devices have it too
2019-11-30T12:50:39 < jly> i think M0+ devices 
2019-11-30T12:50:49 < jly> i had a quick digikeygoogle on it
2019-11-30T12:51:35 < PaulFertser> So why would you be choosing an stm8?
2019-11-30T12:52:58 < Steffanx> He likes stvd and the cosmic compiler 
2019-11-30T12:53:03 < jly> just for the sheer fuck off-ness of it all
2019-11-30T12:53:14 < jly> i wanted to relive my 8bit days
2019-11-30T12:53:32 < jly> mc68hc908xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
2019-11-30T12:55:15 < jly> stvd is a sweet little dittie
2019-11-30T12:55:46 < jly> st visual disaster
2019-11-30T12:56:09 < Steffanx> It looks like keil uvision too much
2019-11-30T12:56:23 < jly> that's what makes it so awesome
2019-11-30T12:58:15 < jly> https://usercontent.irccloud-cdn.com/file/eI0MXuW5/image.png
2019-11-30T12:58:59 < Steffanx> Ty
2019-11-30T12:59:08 < jly> sounds all fucked up
2019-11-30T13:04:43 < Steffanx> Yes SAFU
2019-11-30T13:05:01 < jly> operation safu
2019-11-30T13:05:19 < jly> this was when magneto was dismantled
2019-11-30T13:05:45 < jly> a spontaneous fission event
2019-11-30T13:06:19 < jly> this lead to the mrkn device
2019-11-30T13:06:39 < jly> p-cd plant was dismantled shortly after this
2019-11-30T13:07:19 < jly> https://usercontent.irccloud-cdn.com/file/4Bfi0Qs2/mrkn.png
2019-11-30T13:07:53 < Steffanx> Lol
2019-11-30T13:37:30 < jly> prompt critical
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2019-11-30T14:25:01 < h4x0riz3d> well wuddayaknow, "gigadevice" makes arm cortex chips
2019-11-30T14:31:47 < dongs> are you new or something
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2019-11-30T15:44:33 < Steffanx> Did they clone your fav. Xmega or samXX yet, h4x0riz3d ?
2019-11-30T15:45:00 < h4x0riz3d> no, i just saw it used in a product
2019-11-30T15:45:13 < h4x0riz3d> couldn't recognize wut vendor it is
2019-11-30T15:45:39 < h4x0riz3d> judging by the G i thought maybe it's one of those weird Gecko sh*tz
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2019-11-30T17:20:13 < kakipr0> can you see any hacky way of measuring current from regulator directly?
2019-11-30T17:20:24 < kakipr0> ie. from SW pin
2019-11-30T17:23:29 < kakipr0> I don't need anything linear or absolute
2019-11-30T17:23:41 < jpa-> "regulator"
2019-11-30T17:23:46 < jpa-> you mean a switching regulator?
2019-11-30T17:23:53 < kakipr0> yes step-down
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2019-11-30T17:29:28 < catphish> is there an easy way to find out if one stm32 100% compatible with another one?
2019-11-30T17:29:38 < englishman> yes
2019-11-30T17:29:43 < jpa-> catphish: there are migration documents for some of the devices
2019-11-30T17:29:52 < catphish> specifically, i'm looking at the l433cb and the l433cc
2019-11-30T17:30:25 < catphish> looks like they're probably interchangeable, but would like to be sure
2019-11-30T17:30:46 < englishman> sometimes they split features across a range based on memory. if they share the same datasheet you should be ok. you can compare them side by side in cubemx to make sure
2019-11-30T17:31:51 < jpa-> kakipr0: in discontinous mode it can be calculated from the duty cycle of the converter, but in the continuous (normal / high power) mode it would require a current measurement at some point
2019-11-30T17:32:27 < catphish> they have the exact same description in cubemx "STM32L433xx devices..."
2019-11-30T17:32:45 < jpa-> catphish: if you look at the "ordering information", you'll see that the difference is only in flash memory size
2019-11-30T17:32:59 < kakipr0> jpa: how about using inductor as a shunt?
2019-11-30T17:33:29 < kakipr0> ofc problem is that those are above rails
2019-11-30T17:33:42 < kakipr0> and scaling is problematic ofc
2019-11-30T17:33:46 < catphish> jpa-: i see it, thanks!
2019-11-30T17:33:51 < jpa-> kakipr0: if you really want, but that will require measuring two high-side voltages and accounting for the switching effect; IMO adding a cheap small shunt resistor on GND side would be easier
2019-11-30T17:34:10 < kakipr0> it's not possible to add gnd side shunt
2019-11-30T17:34:13 < jpa-> why not?
2019-11-30T17:34:51 < jpa-> even if the voltage on the other side of it ends up negative with respect to ADC GND, you can just make a voltage divider against VREF or VDDA
2019-11-30T17:35:14 < kakipr0> not an option in this case
2019-11-30T17:35:24 < kakipr0> I will not have separate power and logic ground
2019-11-30T17:35:42 < jpa-> what does that matter?
2019-11-30T17:36:09 < jpa-> you want to measure power consumption of only one of them?
2019-11-30T17:37:08 < kakipr0> there is absolutelly no way there will be separate power ground this is already stuffed
2019-11-30T17:37:37 < jpa-> can you add a shunt on the GND side of the SMPS diode/sync.rectifier? the current there will be ratiometric to the Vin and Vout currents
2019-11-30T17:38:20 < kakipr0> hmm
2019-11-30T17:38:22 < kakipr0> maybe
2019-11-30T17:38:37 < kakipr0> I didn't plan for external fets
2019-11-30T17:38:40 < kakipr0> but maybe
2019-11-30T17:38:46 < jpa-> why would it have to be external?
2019-11-30T17:39:05 < jpa-> just stuff the shunt on the GND pin of the smps regulator if it has internal rectifier
2019-11-30T17:39:39 < kakipr0> oh
2019-11-30T17:39:57 < jpa-> your current will then include the quiescent current of the regulator, but that's probably not a very large error
2019-11-30T17:40:00 < kakipr0> that is certainly an option
2019-11-30T17:40:21 < kakipr0> like few dozen microamps
2019-11-30T17:41:27 < jpa-> to calculate the Vin / Vout currents from that measurement, you'll need to know the Vin / Vout voltages
2019-11-30T17:42:16 < jpa-> or do you?
2019-11-30T17:42:24 < kakipr0> yes
2019-11-30T17:44:32 < kakipr0> okay how about this
2019-11-30T17:44:53 < kakipr0> the lower the current the more important the resolution is for me
2019-11-30T17:45:34 < kakipr0> 100u or 200u makes difference
2019-11-30T17:45:46 < kakipr0> 1.1A or 1.2A not so much
2019-11-30T17:45:53 < jpa-> your regulator will be in discontinuous mode for small currents, and in that case you could just measure SW pin duty cycle
2019-11-30T17:46:16 < kakipr0> and I can confirm discontinuous mode from AAM pin?
2019-11-30T17:46:27 < kakipr0> if I even need to
2019-11-30T17:46:44 < kakipr0> actually I can force it
2019-11-30T17:46:50 < jpa-> isn't AAM just input
2019-11-30T17:46:51 < kakipr0> from AAM pin
2019-11-30T17:47:04 < kakipr0> doesn't it have internal biasing?
2019-11-30T17:47:16 < kakipr0> oh yes but it's static biasing
2019-11-30T17:47:53 < kakipr0> so just basically RC the SW pin?
2019-11-30T17:48:05 < kakipr0> D-RC?
2019-11-30T17:48:07 < jpa-> no, you need duty cycle, not average voltage
2019-11-30T17:48:21 < jpa-> so voltage divider if you need to, then feed into timer
2019-11-30T17:48:36 < kakipr0> what if there is nothing awake to measure it
2019-11-30T17:48:42 < kakipr0> and it needs to be all analog
2019-11-30T17:49:00 < kakipr0> normalize it and average it?
2019-11-30T17:49:11 < jpa-> then you'd have to clamp the voltage and then RC filter, but starts to get stupid complex
2019-11-30T17:49:23 < jpa-> just slap ACS712 on it :P
2019-11-30T17:49:42 < kakipr0> then we will not be measuring 100u vs 200u
2019-11-30T17:49:57 < kakipr0> we are measuring 10.1m vs 10.2m
2019-11-30T17:50:14 < kakipr0> I'm all about that stupid shit
2019-11-30T17:50:23 < kakipr0> bbl>
2019-11-30T18:05:02 < bitmask> ohhhhh back to webdev, lets see how much I can screw this up
2019-11-30T18:16:28 < zyp> just use php, then you don't have to worry about not screwing up enough
2019-11-30T18:30:42 < Steffanx> Did zyp actually do some php or did you just read the " php is shit " blos?
2019-11-30T18:30:43 < Steffanx> blogs
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2019-11-30T18:33:27 < zyp> I did plenty of php way back
2019-11-30T18:33:31 < zyp> not proud of it.
2019-11-30T18:36:04 < kakipr0> Steffanx: https://drive.google.com/file/d/1MwcuEZi6LVV2MB1a0RGVU2Xg65k9GiDA/view?usp=sharing
2019-11-30T18:36:15 < Steffanx> haha ty kakipr0
2019-11-30T18:36:17 < Steffanx> the red room.
2019-11-30T18:36:23 < Steffanx> zyp that was in the php4 i bet.
2019-11-30T18:36:45 < Steffanx> i must say i never did > php5, but from what i read it changed a lot after that
2019-11-30T18:36:53 < zyp> yeah, even barely touched php5
2019-11-30T18:37:40 < Steffanx> even php4 -> php5 was quite a change. mainly in the "OO"  part.
2019-11-30T18:37:59 < Steffanx> but then i gave up on it because .. webdev sucks.
2019-11-30T18:38:24 < zyp> not as much as php :p
2019-11-30T18:38:40 < Steffanx> no, it sucks more.
2019-11-30T18:38:55 < Steffanx> isnt nodejs the shit nowadays
2019-11-30T18:39:10 < vampi-the-frog> nah I don't think anyone uses nodejs
2019-11-30T18:39:20 < vampi-the-frog> the market I've seen is php, react, angular
2019-11-30T18:39:28 < vampi-the-frog> some php frameworks
2019-11-30T18:39:31 < vampi-the-frog> nodejs is gay af
2019-11-30T18:41:10 < Steffanx> Dont they often use nodejs incombination with angularX?
2019-11-30T18:43:24 < vampi-the-frog> well npm is widely used
2019-11-30T18:43:35 < vampi-the-frog> it's the node package manager
2019-11-30T18:43:44 < vampi-the-frog> and node is used to run the development web server
2019-11-30T18:44:04 < vampi-the-frog> but angular is a browser library, you don't develop node stuff
2019-11-30T18:44:19 < vampi-the-frog> so nodejs is used for development and building
2019-11-30T18:45:00 < Steffanx> so what does vampi-the-frog use for the serverside part
2019-11-30T18:45:14 < vampi-the-frog> you can use apache
2019-11-30T18:45:17 < vampi-the-frog> depends
2019-11-30T18:45:32 < vampi-the-frog> you can use php if you're serving an API on the server side
2019-11-30T18:45:42 < Steffanx> im not asking what i can use, but what you use ;)
2019-11-30T18:45:57 < vampi-the-frog> that
2019-11-30T18:46:05 < Steffanx> ah
2019-11-30T18:46:33 < vampi-the-frog> I would recommend vue on the client side though
2019-11-30T18:46:42 < vampi-the-frog> it's not made by large corporations
2019-11-30T18:46:55 < vampi-the-frog> fairly small and fast
2019-11-30T18:47:07 < doomba> plus vue is just awesome if you're not big into javascript
2019-11-30T18:47:58 < doomba> vue + python is a dream
2019-11-30T18:48:09 < doomba> react + php is a meme
2019-11-30T18:54:08 < jadew`> for all the shit php is getting, it's still the most cost effective way of doing web development
2019-11-30T18:54:50 < jadew`> php developers are a dime a dozen
2019-11-30T18:55:27 < jadew`> literally, every indian age 9 and above knows php
2019-11-30T18:55:45 < dongs> i'm glad the concept of "web developer" was created
2019-11-30T18:55:49 < dongs> to differentiate from "programmers"
2019-11-30T18:56:02 < dongs> because the former has about as much clue about programming as a rock
2019-11-30T18:56:29 < jadew`> it's weird how true that is
2019-11-30T18:56:53 < dongs> that smug faggot you see sitting at his macbook sipping a starbucks with some gray-on-gray colorscheem editor clicking furiously on teh macbook touchpad, calling himself a web developer? he's prolyl trying to isntall some bug-ridden turdpress plugin 
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2019-11-30T18:58:07 < Steffanx> The hate is real..
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2019-11-30T19:00:42 < jadew`> I've done a lot of web development and I can confirm
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2019-11-30T19:01:20 < jadew`> I think the reason is because with non-web stuff, things get more complicated a lot faster
2019-11-30T19:01:46 < jadew`> so you're forced to think and write things a certain way
2019-11-30T19:01:56 < jadew`> while for most web stuff you can get away with garbage
2019-11-30T19:02:24 < jadew`> so even if they had the potential to become skilled programmers, they don't really have the opportunity
2019-11-30T19:02:26 < Cracki> that may be because making tools and libraries in other domains don't think of their "developers" (users) as dumb shits and accordingly don't put as much effort into documentation
2019-11-30T19:02:46 < Cracki> also web stuff tends to be low complexity, even their libraries
2019-11-30T19:02:56 -!- c10ud [~c10ud@emesene/dictator/c10ud] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds]
2019-11-30T19:03:28 < Cracki> I'm seeing an opportunity to improve difficult domains, not so "web developers" can stream in, but so... people in embedded... can improve their situation
2019-11-30T19:04:28 < Cracki> draw parallels to anything else popular, such as python
2019-11-30T19:04:32 < doomba> damn dongs i didn't know you were so passionate about the field of web development
2019-11-30T19:04:42 < Cracki> docs are really thorough and easy to understand
2019-11-30T19:05:00 < Cracki> because the assumption is that you're talking to children, literally
2019-11-30T19:05:36 < doomba> it's true tho
2019-11-30T19:05:44 < Cracki> oh if you're frustrated by shit bluepills, just grab an stm32f303cc board off aliex
2019-11-30T19:06:20 < doomba> macbook: check starbucks: check
2019-11-30T19:06:31 < jadew`> this is dongs at starbucks: https://i.pinimg.com/originals/d0/5d/68/d05d685600f4f5ef52708f101a28d56d.jpg
2019-11-30T19:06:37 < doomba> those are the only prereqs to getting $150K+ salary these days
2019-11-30T19:06:49 < Cracki> nice colored fur
2019-11-30T19:09:08 < doomba> nice stm32F3L1N3
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2019-11-30T19:20:59 -!- Maya-sama is now known as Miyu
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2019-11-30T19:29:27 < aandrew> dongs: show me on this doll where Apple touched you
2019-11-30T19:29:35 < dongs> lul
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2019-11-30T19:45:31 < aandrew> no, this is dongs at starbucks: https://bit.ly/35M49On
2019-11-30T19:47:22 < jadew`> lol
2019-11-30T19:49:28 < aandrew> dude in the back in the apron looks like he's had enough of this guy's shit
2019-11-30T19:50:23 -!- Jybz [~jibz@2a01:e0a:198:e110:4a51:b7ff:fe84:99e6] has quit [Quit: Konversation terminated!]
2019-11-30T19:51:57 < Steffanx> haha
2019-11-30T19:59:15 < kakipr0> I once had full blown desktop computer in train
2019-11-30T19:59:22 < kakipr0> and I used it there
2019-11-30T19:59:52 < kakipr0> also I dropped it in train stairs from upper deck to lower deck
2019-11-30T20:00:06 < kakipr0> luckily computer cases are flexible nowdays
2019-11-30T20:00:35 < vampi-the-frog> it is funny squatting slav story. have vodka, brother.
2019-11-30T20:16:47 < Steffanx> kakipr0 doesnt do vodka. He does sauna
2019-11-30T20:18:21 < qyx> so seeed updated to Copper Weight: 1oz - 3oz, Minimum Drill Hole Size: 0.2mm
2019-11-30T20:18:22 < qyx> Trace Width/Spacing: 4/4mil, Minimum Solder Mask Dam: 0.1mm
2019-11-30T20:18:24 < qyx> great
2019-11-30T20:18:39 < qyx> maybe that bga will be easy
2019-11-30T20:20:56 < Cracki> 4/4 eh I'm curious if they can do it
2019-11-30T20:22:16 < qyx> I'll use 6/6
2019-11-30T20:22:21 < qyx> and 0.2/0.4 via
2019-11-30T20:34:09 < Steffanx> how many layers are we talking about qyx?
2019-11-30T20:40:50 < jpa-> jlcpcb advertises 3.5/3.5 but they can really only do 4/4
2019-11-30T20:40:51 < qyx> two!
2019-11-30T20:41:06 < qyx> I am curious if 4/4 also means 0.1mm
2019-11-30T20:41:14 < jpa-> but 4/4 they did fine
2019-11-30T20:41:39 < qyx> going with 8/6
2019-11-30T20:41:55 < jpa-> and yeah, by 4/4 i mean 0.1mm
2019-11-30T20:42:19 < qyx> it looks like I don't really need two traces between balls
2019-11-30T20:43:01 < jpa-> i'd be more surprised if they can do 0.2/0.4mm via
2019-11-30T20:43:14 < jpa-> considering that requires 0.1mm annular ring and actually hitting on center
2019-11-30T20:43:33 < Steffanx> Doesnt jlcpcb say 0.45mm?
2019-11-30T20:43:50 < Steffanx> min via diameter
2019-11-30T20:43:51 < jpa-> jlcpcb advertises 0.2/0.45mm vias, i used 0.2/0.5mm and atleast that worked fine
2019-11-30T20:44:19 < jpa-> Steffanx: yeah, but seeed says 0.2/0.4
2019-11-30T20:44:25 < Steffanx> ah
2019-11-30T20:44:43 < Steffanx> they dont have it on their website yet? i dont see it in the calculator
2019-11-30T20:45:10 < jpa-> http://support.seeedstudio.com/knowledgebase/articles/447362-fusion-pcb-specification
2019-11-30T20:45:41 < Steffanx> info on multiple places is always nice
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2019-11-30T21:00:30 < PaulFertser> UTC in Bulgaria is soo surprisingly bad ftp://ftp2.bipm.org/pub/tai//Circular-T/cirthtm/cirt.382.html . Romania is quite odd too.
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2019-11-30T21:03:40 < kakipr0> it downloaded that url
2019-11-30T21:03:43 < kakipr0> scary
2019-11-30T21:11:33 < rmaw> anyone know how I can switch layers in Active Route with altium
2019-11-30T21:11:34 < PaulFertser> Time difference more than 10 microseconds!
2019-11-30T21:11:56 < rmaw> normal * and control+shift+scrollwheel doesn't work
2019-11-30T21:11:58 < Cracki> explain how a country has anything to do with the quality of a time (zone)
2019-11-30T21:12:00 < rmaw> and then it wont route between layers
2019-11-30T21:12:29 < Cracki> ah, their atomic time. utc doesn't mean atomic time.
2019-11-30T21:13:34 < kakipr0> PaulFertser: what difference?
2019-11-30T21:14:56 < englishman> rmaw: isn't that the point of active route that it chooses layers automatically
2019-11-30T21:15:04 < PaulFertser> kakipr0: between UTC time broadcasted by the time lab and all the others.
2019-11-30T21:15:55 < PaulFertser> Cracki: and yet the document talks about UTC(k) differences as that's what's getting broadcasted and used officially.
2019-11-30T21:16:17 < Cracki> ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
2019-11-30T21:16:49 < PaulFertser> TAI is not supposed to be used directly according to the current recommendations.
2019-11-30T21:17:43  * PaulFertser is reading https://www.ucolick.org/~sla/leapsecs/timescales.html 
2019-11-30T21:19:07 < rmaw> englishman: I thought so, but it just doesn't seem to route between 2 layers atall
2019-11-30T21:19:19 < rmaw> so I assumed you defined the via location when doing the route guide
2019-11-30T21:21:08 < englishman> idk never used it
2019-11-30T21:21:18 < englishman> plz report on innovations
2019-11-30T21:21:55 < jpa-> first innovative bug on pcb found
2019-11-30T21:21:59 < jpa-> forgot all protection diodes
2019-11-30T21:22:04 < jpa-> "forgot"
2019-11-30T21:22:53 < PaulFertser> Cracki: would you prefer UTC to be redefined in a way that no new leap seconds are added to it?
2019-11-30T21:23:06 < Cracki> you're entirely missing my point
2019-11-30T21:23:16 < Cracki> entirely
2019-11-30T21:23:18 < PaulFertser> That's an unrelated question of mine.
2019-11-30T21:23:28 < englishman> jpa-: esd is a myth
2019-11-30T21:23:36 < Cracki> I would prefer time to be tracking pulsars
2019-11-30T21:23:46 < jpa-> yeah, i'd prefer UTC to be redefined like that and then if there is tracking error correct it by redefining second ;)
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2019-11-30T21:23:51 < Cracki> and then we should derive something that's close to solar time.
2019-11-30T21:23:57 < Cracki> that's almost what we do already
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2019-11-30T21:24:18 < jpa-> englishman: yeah, but i kinda expected built-in clamping diodes to make my stuff 5V-compatible with series resistor; ... but it doesn't have clamping to VDD, only to GND
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2019-11-30T21:24:47 < PaulFertser> Cracki: but for civilian timekeeping, is it ok if the time will get so disconnected from the Earth rotation that it would be apparent to everyone (like, few hours difference)?
2019-11-30T21:24:57 < Cracki> I didn't say that
2019-11-30T21:24:58 < englishman> nice
2019-11-30T21:25:37 < PaulFertser> Cracki: that's my question :) Apparently there're many people who'd like to make civilian time fully uniform and continous. So no streched or leap seconds.
2019-11-30T21:26:06 < Cracki> civilian time, OBVIOUSLY is for civilian uses and should track solar time.
2019-11-30T21:26:26 < Cracki> and nobody even notices leap seconds.
2019-11-30T21:26:36 < PaulFertser> Some software breaks occassionally.
2019-11-30T21:26:37 < Cracki> that's a mere adjustment
2019-11-30T21:26:52 < mawk> then it's bad software
2019-11-30T21:27:17 < Cracki> discontinuities are a problem
2019-11-30T21:27:29 < PaulFertser> Also, I really saw real-life issues with leap seconds. You can attribute it to the silly NMEA2000 requirement for GPS receivers to print UTC instead of TAI but still the issue was real.
2019-11-30T21:27:32 < Cracki> we should have a time that's independent of earth
2019-11-30T21:28:03 < Cracki> and something that translates that into earth time as a continuous function
2019-11-30T21:28:23 < Cracki> for all I care, first derivative may be discontinuous
2019-11-30T21:29:01 < Cracki> whatever "universal" time should be expressed in seconds and that's it
2019-11-30T21:29:05 < Cracki> no fucking minutes, hours, or "days"
2019-11-30T21:30:02 < Cracki> and that should be the best approximation of time we have. and then whomever it concerns figures out how to derive "earth time" from that and *that* translation gets adjustments as they become necessary
2019-11-30T21:30:20 < PaulFertser> That's about what happens now with TAI, right?
2019-11-30T21:30:27 < Cracki> aiui TAI is such an universal time. it gets no adjustments to track earth.
2019-11-30T21:31:13 < Cracki> and I'd like leap seconds to fuck off. instead what I would want is declared pairs of (TAI, UTC)
2019-11-30T21:31:37 < Cracki> then everything can run on tai, and show utc to meatbags
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2019-11-30T21:31:53 < PaulFertser> You can do it in POSIX systems if you install the "right" timezone.
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2019-11-30T21:32:07 < PaulFertser> (and use non-standard NTP servers)
2019-11-30T21:33:27 < Cracki> imho time zones shouldn't be "weird". they should be round numbers, related to UTC.
2019-11-30T21:33:47 < Cracki> so what should happen is that you get tai from somewhere, then you derive utc from that, and then you derive local time from that.
2019-11-30T21:34:27 < Cracki> i.e. systems should grow the notion of running on tai, not utc itself.
2019-11-30T21:34:29 < PaulFertser> The real-life issue with leap seconds I saw were because GPS receivers get 3D fix much earlier than they have a chance to know the current TAI-UTC offset, but they have to show UTC, so the offset is the one hardcoded in the firmware (or stored in EEPROM if there's any). 
2019-11-30T21:34:54 < Cracki> have to?
2019-11-30T21:35:08 < PaulFertser> NMEA2000 requires that apparently
2019-11-30T21:35:17 < Cracki> fuck nmea2000 then
2019-11-30T21:35:24 < PaulFertser> Indeed
2019-11-30T21:35:48 < Cracki> sounds like they made that for continuous operation
2019-11-30T21:35:59 < Steffanx> arent we lucky nmea isnt use A LOT? :D
2019-11-30T21:36:02 < Steffanx> *used
2019-11-30T21:36:26 < PaulFertser> Does UBX (ublox protocol) provide TAI? I'm not sure.
2019-11-30T21:36:38 < Cracki> I'd bet it does.
2019-11-30T21:37:16 < Cracki> no idea tho
2019-11-30T21:37:23 < Cracki> quick google doesn't bring up clues
2019-11-30T21:38:14 < Cracki> they probably give you GPS time (fixed to TAI but offset)
2019-11-30T21:40:08 < Cracki> https://physicsworld.com/a/pulsar-timekeepers-measure-up-to-atomic-clocks/ https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pulsar_clock
2019-11-30T21:45:36 < Cracki> ublox6 says >grid UTC/GPS - Selection between UTC (0) or GPS (1) timegrid. Also effects the time output by TIM-TP message.
2019-11-30T21:47:53 < PaulFertser> ublox5 has NAV-TIMEGPS
2019-11-30T21:48:05 < PaulFertser> ublox makes good receivers, ok
2019-11-30T21:53:55 < PaulFertser> "While he thinks it is possible that a pulsar-based timescale could outperform the best present-day atomic timescale over long times, Shemar says that it is too early to tell."
2019-11-30T22:04:07 < rmaw> englishman: "ActiveRoute can route on multiple layers simultaneously. While it cannot place vias to perform a layer change, it can distribute connections and nets across the available layers"
2019-11-30T22:04:47 < rmaw> so what they should do is allow you to change layer on the route guide to define an area to try and place vias
2019-11-30T22:04:59 < rmaw> shame 
2019-11-30T22:14:55 < PaulFertser> LOL, read the actual russian law regarding time and was shocked to see it prohibits leap seconds! Went to check russian wikipedia and it confirms that the law is written that way but there exists a standard that specifies otherwise, and so in practice the law is always violated. Since 2011. And there were several revisions of the law but this error still not fixed.
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2019-11-30T22:23:59 < Cracki> shoot the law makers
2019-11-30T22:24:57 < Cracki> writing good laws, and being eager to write laws, are totally different things
2019-11-30T22:25:25 -!- upgrdman [~upgrdman@blender/artist/upgrdman] has joined ##stm32
2019-11-30T22:25:32 < PaulFertser> Our law makers are a bunch of criminals, morons or both.
2019-11-30T22:25:37 < upgrdman> anyone else get a trojan detected when scanning https://www.stunnel.org/downloads/stunnel-5.56-win64-installer.exe
2019-11-30T22:27:12 < Cracki> throw at virustotal
2019-11-30T22:27:28 < Cracki> windows defender doesn't say anything yet
2019-11-30T22:28:01 < Cracki> virustotal says all good
2019-11-30T22:28:14 < Cracki> is your connecting being hijacked?
2019-11-30T22:29:08 < upgrdman> dunno
2019-11-30T22:29:11 < upgrdman> i get this https://imgur.com/a/hjQ5iHF
2019-11-30T22:30:20 < Cracki> let's compare hashes
2019-11-30T22:30:33 < Cracki> https://www.virustotal.com/gui/url/b4b2860225a96799c70975248b3c998fe208587c1819e8877720ed2f68907cd3/detection
2019-11-30T22:31:13 < Cracki> sha256 of my local file is also e9d7dea3976219f0fc89cfb4f645f47b1291ebec8ce55cff46dbbfbb2e9b4084
2019-11-30T22:32:02 < upgrdman> k
2019-11-30T22:32:26 < Cracki> windows defender last update today about 9 hours ago
2019-11-30T22:33:26 < Steffanx> same here
2019-11-30T22:33:33 < upgrdman> lol. running windows update, it see an update for defender.
2019-11-30T22:33:41 < upgrdman> lets see if this update fixes a false positive
2019-11-30T22:33:49 < Cracki> just updated to some definitions that are ~3 hours old
2019-11-30T22:33:51 < Cracki> same result
2019-11-30T22:33:59 < upgrdman> fuck
2019-11-30T22:34:01 < Cracki> i.e. nothing
2019-11-30T22:34:02 < upgrdman> works now :)
2019-11-30T22:34:05 < Cracki> hm
2019-11-30T22:34:13 < upgrdman> guess todays update fixed a false positive. those fags.
2019-11-30T22:34:23 < Cracki> bundle those sticks
2019-11-30T22:35:02 < Cracki> yay eu parliament wants to axe "daylight savings time" in 2021
2019-11-30T22:35:22 < Cracki> I have never before felt the offness of clocks as I did this summer
2019-11-30T22:37:03 < Cracki> oh fuck these morons want to make summer time normal
2019-11-30T22:37:12 < Cracki> that fucking drunkard!
2019-11-30T22:38:33 < Steffanx> I thought it was up to individual countries to go for summer or winter time.
2019-11-30T22:39:49 < Cracki> TIL: spain and poland have the same time zone. how fucking retarded is that
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2019-11-30T22:41:10 < Cracki> spain goes to 9 degrees west, poland 23 degrees east
2019-11-30T22:41:18 < Cracki> one hour is 15 degrees
2019-11-30T22:42:06 < Cracki> france should be +0, spain is closest to +0 as well
2019-11-30T22:49:24 < rue_bed2> maybe the world should use synchronized time and just give in to learning when lunch is for your area
2019-11-30T22:49:47 < Cracki> that's what I tell those fucktards who want to keep DST year-round
2019-11-30T22:49:49 < rue_bed2> does ANYONE navigate via a watch and the sun anymore, I dont think so
2019-11-30T22:50:11 < Cracki> they want "more daylight in the evening"
2019-11-30T22:50:47 < Cracki> I am incredibly annoyed when the clock says noon yet the day isn't even half over and the sun is nowhere near its zenith
2019-11-30T22:51:01 < Cracki> I expect that be in sync
2019-11-30T22:51:07 < Cracki> anything else is arbitrary
2019-11-30T22:51:12 < rue_bed2> I wonder how many people know that at 12:00 a watch should point north
2019-11-30T22:51:30 < Cracki> depends on how you turn it
2019-11-30T22:51:43 < rue_bed2> :) the right way for navigation
2019-11-30T22:51:44 < Cracki> everyone uses 12h faces. that's retarded too
2019-11-30T22:51:54 < Cracki> with a 24h clock face, you have some real correspondence
2019-11-30T22:52:28 < Cracki> point it south. 06:00 sun rise, 12:00 noon, 18:00 sun set
2019-11-30T22:52:31 < rue_bed2> wow, slept for 9 hours
2019-11-30T22:52:43 < Cracki> +- seasons
2019-11-30T22:52:43 < rue_bed2> thats what I get coding till 4am
2019-11-30T22:53:02 < PaulFertser> I wonder how many people in EU know that when navigating by compass in Canada and some of the US you need to take into account the difference between North and magnetic North.
2019-11-30T22:53:54 < Cracki> how many degrees are they off, spherically speaking?
2019-11-30T22:54:02 < Cracki> or kilometers, if you know that
2019-11-30T22:54:53 < Cracki> lol https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Earth_Magnetic_Field_Declination_from_1590_to_1990.gif
2019-11-30T22:55:10 < Cracki> magnetic north looks like it's touching canada
2019-11-30T22:55:28 < PaulFertser> Cracki: I can't really tell but I remember azimuth differences about 15-20 degrees are common.
2019-11-30T22:55:54 < Cracki> not sure how to read this https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/1/11/World_Magnetic_Declination_2015.pdf
2019-11-30T22:56:04 < Cracki> looks like you can chuck your compass in the middle of the pacific
2019-11-30T22:56:47 < Cracki> nvm, that weird map is plotting the error
2019-11-30T22:57:59 -!- Drzacek [~Drzacek@2001:16b8:1c24:7d00:8d0c:a94e:a36:54e3] has quit [Quit: Leaving]
2019-11-30T23:00:23 < Cracki> ah, field lines! http://geomag.org/info/declination.html
2019-11-30T23:01:04 < Thorn> where do I get bitmap fonts for a lcd, is there a good collection anywhere
2019-11-30T23:01:40 < PaulFertser> I just used Terminus.
2019-11-30T23:01:56 < PaulFertser> Nice readable bitmap font in many sizes.
2019-11-30T23:15:36 < fenugrec> Cracki, "typical declination" for eastern canadia is around 12-18 deg, mostly depending on latitude
2019-11-30T23:17:22 < mawk> zwarte piets are very zwart in Delft Steffanx lol
2019-11-30T23:17:23 < fenugrec> northern canada is of course even worse, and compasses are even less reliable beacause the field lines are farther from horizontal
2019-11-30T23:18:36 < fenugrec> PaulFertser, did you have drama with Terminus vs Pango v1.44 update ?
2019-11-30T23:18:42 < qyx> Cracki: fuk timezones, UTC for all
2019-11-30T23:19:21 < Cracki> I don't want to live on this planet anymore
2019-11-30T23:19:40 < qyx> I had drama with gtk3 ignoring dynamic accelrators setting
2019-11-30T23:19:49 < Cracki> people still use gtk?
2019-11-30T23:20:12 < qyx> apparently, I am running xfce
2019-11-30T23:20:18 < Cracki> what are dynamic accelerators anyway? a sensor? or alt+letter things?
2019-11-30T23:21:07 < qyx> no, you can change shortcut in applications by hovering over a menu item and pressing your new shortcut
2019-11-30T23:21:36 < Cracki> uh
2019-11-30T23:21:42 < Cracki> interesting
2019-11-30T23:21:46 < qyx> which is great idea.. or would be
2019-11-30T23:21:51 < Cracki> if it worked?
2019-11-30T23:22:01 < qyx> if they didn't drop it in gtk3
2019-11-30T23:22:17 < Cracki> upto now I've only seen programs use big tables listing all the functions where you can set hotkeys
2019-11-30T23:22:21 < Cracki> kek
2019-11-30T23:22:26 < vampi-the-frog> gtk is nice
2019-11-30T23:22:38 < qyx> yeah, you could omit that if this worked reliably
2019-11-30T23:22:40 < Cracki> wait, gtk, that's gnome. gnome is that commie bullshit where they abolish all choice, isn't it
2019-11-30T23:22:50 < qyx> hah
2019-11-30T23:23:11 < vampi-the-frog> you're thinking of gnome 3
2019-11-30T23:23:14 < vampi-the-frog> GTK+ started with GIMP
2019-11-30T23:23:20 < Cracki> trying to imitate apple, which is also taking your choice away, but actually giving you something in return
2019-11-30T23:23:26 < vampi-the-frog> it literally means GIMP ToolKit
2019-11-30T23:24:01 < qyx> it is like starting windows in office
2019-11-30T23:24:13 < qyx> and then make a whole OS UI with it
2019-11-30T23:24:25 < vampi-the-frog> mac OS will force you to get AIDS soon enough
2019-11-30T23:24:30 < qyx> and give it an obvious name
2019-11-30T23:24:34 < qyx> such as.. windows
2019-11-30T23:24:37 < qyx> or.. gimp toolkit
2019-11-30T23:24:50 < vampi-the-frog> draggable rectangles of information
2019-11-30T23:25:47 -!- boB_K7IQ [~boB_K7IQ@c-73-140-168-208.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds]
2019-11-30T23:36:54 < Thorn> https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCkJ6eQKpHZgsZBla4JgKj3A. Computer Chronicles with Gary Kildall
2019-11-30T23:39:17 < PaulFertser> fenugrec: I only remember when they changed X font name to xos4- something.
2019-11-30T23:43:21 < Thorn> PaulFertser: thanks, I'm not sure I like the font but at least it's a consistent look across multiple sizes and normal/bold variants
2019-11-30T23:47:29 < Steffanx> they are supposed to be very zwart, mawk
2019-11-30T23:48:55 < mawk> yeah but in other cities they are not
2019-11-30T23:49:00 < mawk> there are protests and everything
2019-11-30T23:49:04 < mawk> but here in delft they are very zwart
2019-11-30T23:49:08 < Steffanx> yessir
2019-11-30T23:51:07 < mawk> black face
2019-11-30T23:51:41 < mawk> zwarte gezicht
2019-11-30T23:51:54 < Steffanx> Black pete.
2019-11-30T23:52:41 < Cracki> what's getting protest? chimneys not cleaning themselves?
2019-11-30T23:53:21 < Cracki> santa claus no longer fat enough to brush against the walls of the chimney?
2019-11-30T23:53:25 < Steffanx> curacao is more funny. There they paint Sinterklaas white, mawk :D
--- Log closed Sun Dec 01 00:00:26 2019