2019-12-16T12:40:48 < Cracki> 64 character line limit
2019-12-16T12:41:15 < Cracki> did any display or printer ever require that or is he some kind of binary supremacist
2019-12-16T13:19:00 < PaulFertser> Cracki: see https://tex.stackexchange.com/questions/71172/why-are-default-latex-margins-so-big
2019-12-16T13:19:47 < Cracki> tex sure, but fucking monospace text that's styled like we still have tons of punch cards in the storage room?
2019-12-16T13:20:47 < Cracki> ah, legibility. I doubt that's it. he did everything else to minimize legibility.
2019-12-16T13:20:49 < PaulFertser> Cracki: my point is there's a wide-spread notion that people are comfortable reading lines with 60-70 characters, not more. I do not see any links to proper research though, but it follows from decades of book typography apparently.
2019-12-16T13:21:23 < Cracki> can't give you research but the highlights from some lectures
2019-12-16T13:21:33 < PaulFertser> The page in question is just including an ASCII file, in , most likely because it contains code samples and they would look odd otherwise.
2019-12-16T13:21:44 < Cracki> - eye skipping from EOL to beginning of next gets harder the longer the line
2019-12-16T13:22:18 < Cracki> - news papers have narrow columns because you can perceive single lines of such length at a time
2019-12-16T13:22:30 < Cracki> also to maximize skimming
2019-12-16T13:22:44 < Cracki> anything wider than that and your eyes have to fixate twice or more per line
2019-12-16T13:23:01 < Cracki> that page in question isn't just using
2019-12-16T13:23:05 < Cracki> it's using
2019-12-16T13:23:20 < Cracki> most likely because the person is getting off on monospace font
2019-12-16T13:23:26 < PaulFertser> :)
2019-12-16T13:23:31 < Cracki> the black on gray is also very very weird
2019-12-16T13:23:49 < Cracki> reduced contrast is evil.
2019-12-16T13:24:33 < Cracki> even today there are people who give text on light background some medium gray instead of black... for no other reason than to reduce contrast and fuck with you
2019-12-16T13:24:42 < PaulFertser> I prefer when end-user web browser decides on the colour, especially on background colour. It seems odd to use white background for reading on light-emitting (not passive) displays.
2019-12-16T13:24:45 < Cracki> this "yellow is good for your eyes" is also a myth
2019-12-16T13:25:05 < Cracki> the "yellow" paper was unbleached paper. it's not yellow but a pale beige, like wood.
2019-12-16T13:25:07 < PaulFertser> I think it's up to end-user to decide.
2019-12-16T13:25:17 < PaulFertser> Not to the page designer.
2019-12-16T13:25:22 < Cracki> they *sometimes* dyed it yellow because that was cheap
2019-12-16T13:25:27 < Cracki> aye
2019-12-16T13:25:57 < PaulFertser> And in any case, all that documentation is available "online" which means it's installed on the computer along with the binaries, and one can use whatever tool he/she prefers for reading it, without any Internet access or web-browsers involved.
2019-12-16T13:26:26 < Cracki> right, that stuff is probably in manpages and they are nice and standard
2019-12-16T13:28:35 < Cracki> I'll have to keep this in mind...
2019-12-16T13:29:30 < Cracki> at uni, people pass around their overburdened templates with double column, reduced font size, reduced margins, made for barn-sized sheets of paper, ...
2019-12-16T13:31:07 < Cracki> because they're forced to pack lots of information into too few pages... while the poor students who receive such a tortured husk of a thesis to use for a simple seminar, get plenty of pages for no original thought required
2019-12-16T13:34:31 < Cracki> dog https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wLGP-Ewpeps
2019-12-16T13:44:31 < Cracki> contrast https://www.wired.com/2016/10/how-the-web-became-unreadable/
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2019-12-16T14:18:41 < thardin> disabling css sometimes helps, but not always
2019-12-16T14:19:54 < englishman> attn dongs https://www.supertux.org/news/2019/12/15/0.6.1
2019-12-16T14:20:11 < englishman> new release of your fav game for your fav platform
2019-12-16T14:21:13 < thardin> nice
2019-12-16T14:35:06 < dongs> the fuck is that? i only play tuxracer
2019-12-16T14:36:15 < dongs> god damn "similar to the original super mario games"
2019-12-16T14:36:24 < dongs> god damn opsnroes retards cant ever come up wtih anything new or original
2019-12-16T14:36:28 < dongs> just fucking blindly cloning shit
2019-12-16T14:36:32 < dongs> and making it shittier in the process
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2019-12-16T14:45:20 < englishman> oh sorry. tuxracer hasn't been updated since 2001. can't improve on perfection I guess.
2019-12-16T14:48:45 < thardin> tuxcart has multiplayer now
2019-12-16T14:48:47 < thardin> but yes
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2019-12-16T15:29:55 < PaulFertser> An interesting flaw in FM Cortex-M controllers: FPB is not reset with SRST. https://fail0verflow.com/blog/2018/ps4-ds4/
2019-12-16T15:35:35 < Thorn> it's not supposed to, debug hardware is in its own separate reset domain afaik
2019-12-16T15:37:20 < PaulFertser> Well, yes, and in this case it helped a lot to readout the protected flash.
2019-12-16T15:38:03 < PaulFertser> I guess that trick was already tried on stm32 but who knows.
2019-12-16T15:38:41 < zyp> huh, that might be a way to defeat ROP1
2019-12-16T15:39:52 < zyp> except, I think maybe ROP1 doesn't allow flash access again before you do a power on reset
2019-12-16T15:40:12 < Thorn> why don't they include fuses to physically disconnect all debug stuff from AHB etc.
2019-12-16T15:40:42 < Thorn> as a last step in mass programming
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2019-12-16T15:57:34 < kre10s> nooo don't do that! then we can't hack our routers anymore
2019-12-16T15:58:33 < kre10s> but yea... at work we disable jtag in software... for 'security' but obviously anyone with a tweezer can pull the reset line
2019-12-16T15:59:31 < dongs> hacking routers is fucking retarded shit
2019-12-16T16:03:31 < Ultrasauce> dongs is still using vendor firmware from 2010 with 3 botnets
2019-12-16T16:03:52 < dongs> yeah ok
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2019-12-16T16:59:54 < Thorn> fuck me https://lcsc.com/search?q=stm32g
2019-12-16T17:00:50 < Thorn> not even a year too late
2019-12-16T17:10:22 < dongs> any of those have > = 128k flash?
2019-12-16T17:12:30 < karlp> g071rb should be.
2019-12-16T17:12:54 < karlp> or is b 128? don't remember the bigger ones.
2019-12-16T17:13:08 < karlp> 6 is 32, 8 is 64, b is 128?
2019-12-16T17:19:14 < Thorn> T - 8 h https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sbXgZg9JmkI
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2019-12-16T17:23:36 < Thorn> usb cat toy https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b_t8LBhJ7Zs
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2019-12-16T17:36:26 < tcth_> PaulFertser, ping
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2019-12-16T17:39:20 < Steffanx> Russia is down :O
2019-12-16T17:41:07 < PaulFertser> tcth: pong
2019-12-16T17:44:10 < tcth> PaulFertser, they are 17¨
2019-12-16T17:44:32 < PaulFertser> tcth: discs, but I was asking about the wheels.
2019-12-16T17:50:20 < Steffanx> Hehe
2019-12-16T17:53:16 < tcth> PaulFertser, 29 inch
2019-12-16T17:53:25 < tcth> PaulFertser, they are 235/65R17
2019-12-16T17:54:14 < tcth> PaulFertser, those are the winter tires I currently have on. I did not bother going to the storage room to check my summer AT ones
2019-12-16T17:54:15 < PaulFertser> tcth: thank you. That's not much for an offroader, and 65% profile is kinda on the humble side I'd say.
2019-12-16T17:54:52 < tcth> PaulFertser, as mentioned previously my offroading makes 5% of my car use - and my summer tires are more off-road than my winter tires.
2019-12-16T17:55:10 < tcth> PaulFertser, and again: My car is not an offroader ;-)
2019-12-16T17:56:13 < PaulFertser> tcth: I recommend "offroadspb" youtube channel, probably that can inspire you
2019-12-16T17:57:09 < tcth> PaulFertser, no need. Again: I do 5% off roading during a season and that is not intentionally driving into a ditch but driving where there is no road - not intentionally looking for rocks and muddy puts.
2019-12-16T17:58:02 < tcth> on Friday we had quite a large amount of snow fall (at least for here). Lots of people were stuck - those are mainly the situations for when I have a bit more off-roady tires .
2019-12-16T17:58:07 < PaulFertser> tcth: you might enjoy the channel contents nevertheless.
2019-12-16T17:58:31 < tcth> PaulFertser, possible - I´ll give it a try tonight (or so)
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2019-12-16T18:17:52 < Ultrasauce> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HRSOlj5LVoc today's musicspam
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2019-12-16T19:15:28 < Ecco> Hmm
2019-12-16T19:15:39 < Ecco> Using LTO, GCC is re-ordering DSB/ISB instructions
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2019-12-16T19:15:46 < Ecco> inline void dsb() {
2019-12-16T19:15:46 < Ecco> asm volatile("dsb 0xF":::"memory");
2019-12-16T19:15:46 < Ecco> }
2019-12-16T19:15:52 < Ecco> Is anything wrong with this code?
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2019-12-16T19:18:41 < karlp> presumably..
2019-12-16T19:20:51 < tcth> hey Ecco, long time :)
2019-12-16T19:21:06 < Ecco> hey :)
2019-12-16T19:21:36 < Ecco> got rid of vowels? :-)
2019-12-16T19:22:00 < tcth> yeah man :p
2019-12-16T19:22:09 < tcth> I´d not recommend that in your case tho
2019-12-16T19:22:22 < Ecco> :-D
2019-12-16T19:22:29 < Ecco> 18:22 There is no such nick cc
2019-12-16T19:22:33 < Ecco> I could ^^
2019-12-16T19:22:36 -!- Ecco is now known as cc
2019-12-16T19:22:47 < tcth> welcome to the bortherhood :D
2019-12-16T19:22:48 < cc> Meh, "This nickname is registered"
2019-12-16T19:22:49 < tcth> brotherhood*
2019-12-16T19:22:50 -!- cc is now known as Ecco
2019-12-16T19:22:50 < Steffanx> Is that even free?
2019-12-16T19:22:51 < Steffanx> Ah
2019-12-16T19:23:00 < tcth> Ecco, what are you innovating these days?
2019-12-16T19:23:13 < Ecco> well, fighting with a compiler ^^
2019-12-16T19:23:53 < tcth> good
2019-12-16T19:23:59 < tcth> so you are innovating something
2019-12-16T19:24:11 < Ecco> ^^
2019-12-16T19:28:14 < PaulFertser> Ecco: memory clobber should prevent any reordering.
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2019-12-16T19:57:11 < Mangy_Dog> anyone know what data bus this is? WRX,RDX,CSX,SD/CX is it a badly worded SPI? I also have some SDO and SDI too isn that i2c?
2019-12-16T19:57:29 < Mangy_Dog> im trying to figure out the wireup for this display https://www.buydisplay.com/download/manual/ER-TFT028-4_Datasheet.pdf
2019-12-16T19:58:12 < Steffanx> tcth: is our displayman
2019-12-16T19:58:17 < aandrew> it'd be nice if the datasheet gave you a waveform
2019-12-16T19:58:28 < Mangy_Dog> i want to run it in parallel 666 mode but i know i need to do some kind of intit code as well through one of these data busses... but i need to at first know what its connected to
2019-12-16T19:58:55 < aandrew> actually it kind of does on page 10
2019-12-16T19:59:02 < aandrew> mode 1110 looks like spi
2019-12-16T19:59:12 < aandrew> clock data in, data/command, data out and select
2019-12-16T19:59:18 < Mangy_Dog> yeah thats spi
2019-12-16T19:59:33 < tcth> jup
2019-12-16T19:59:35 < Mangy_Dog> but i need mode 0000
2019-12-16T19:59:38 < aandrew> do you ahve the controller model?
2019-12-16T19:59:42 < aandrew> oh
2019-12-16T19:59:48 < aandrew> that's an 8080 cpu interface
2019-12-16T19:59:52 < aandrew> easyto look up
2019-12-16T20:00:06 < Mangy_Dog> oh wait sorry
2019-12-16T20:00:10 < Mangy_Dog> 0011
2019-12-16T20:00:11 < Mangy_Dog> :p
2019-12-16T20:00:19 < aandrew> wr#, rd#, cs# and data/command#, I assume that is io/mem in 8080 parlance
2019-12-16T20:00:34 < aandrew> that's the same thing
2019-12-16T20:00:36 < aandrew> just wider
2019-12-16T20:00:39 < Mangy_Dog> nods
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2019-12-16T20:00:48 < Mangy_Dog> the paralell wireup to my graphics chip is the easy big
2019-12-16T20:01:06 < Mangy_Dog> wrx rdx csx d/clk
2019-12-16T20:01:09 < Mangy_Dog> that i dont know
2019-12-16T20:02:00 < tcth> Mangy_Dog, I wrote this many years ago, maybe that helps: http://wiki.chibios.org/dokuwiki/doku.php?id=chibios:community:plans:external_ram
2019-12-16T20:02:21 < tcth> Mangy_Dog, you can hook up the 8080 / 8086 bus to the FSMC / FMC peripheral of your STM32 (if any)
2019-12-16T20:02:26 < tcth> otherwise you can always just bit-bang it.
2019-12-16T20:03:13 < Mangy_Dog> tcth the parallel is hooked up to the ftdi eve chip
2019-12-16T20:03:24 < aandrew> well like I said
2019-12-16T20:03:33 < aandrew> wr# and rd# is the type of access
2019-12-16T20:03:37 < aandrew> cs# is chip select
2019-12-16T20:03:44 < aandrew> so cs=0, wr=0, rd=1 is a write access
2019-12-16T20:03:48 < Mangy_Dog> but i need to also run some knid of init code through those other pins but i have NO ida what interface that is
2019-12-16T20:03:52 < dongs> oh ftdi eve
2019-12-16T20:03:56 < tcth> Mangy_Dog, I would assume that the eve chip provides you with some reference material to connect a display with an 8080 interface.
2019-12-16T20:03:59 < aandrew> and d/c selects the "type" of address, data memory or command memory
2019-12-16T20:05:05 < tcth> Mangy_Dog, it´s quite a few years ago I touched the FTDI eve chips last. I remember that you could either store custom commands in the eve memory that would be executed epilogue and prologue style (like hooks) or it had some sort of write-through interface option (if not both)
2019-12-16T20:06:04 < Mangy_Dog> the eve chips themselves dont have those other data pins
2019-12-16T20:06:08 < Mangy_Dog> just the parallell rgb
2019-12-16T20:06:19 < Mangy_Dog> with h v sync and clock
2019-12-16T20:06:36 < tcth> ah, well then it´s different
2019-12-16T20:06:55 < tcth> in that case you need to ensure first that your display module/controller provides that sort of interface
2019-12-16T20:07:11 < tcth> not every display module / controller provides a raw interface
2019-12-16T20:07:42 < Mangy_Dog> well i went with this display as its blerb said the various rgb interfaces
2019-12-16T20:07:44 < tcth> some of them provide SPI, 8080 and then also RGB by using the I/O pins differently. Then you just need to look that mapping up in the datasheet and set the proper flag in the configuration register
2019-12-16T20:08:27 < tcth> looking at page 9 of the datasheet you linked there is definitely some hsync and vsync for an RGB interface
2019-12-16T20:08:36 < tcth> but then I don´t really understand what your question is
2019-12-16T20:09:11 < Mangy_Dog> well like i say.... i suspected I need to run some kind of init at bootup to get it to run in parallel mode.... but its the wrx rdx csx pins, that i assume i need to run the init code through... i have no idea what that interface is
2019-12-16T20:09:50 < Mangy_Dog> it could be an spi but it doesnt use normal spi names
2019-12-16T20:10:16 < tcth> Mangy_Dog, as aandrew explained the rdx, wrx pins and so on are the controll pins of the parallel interface - they are part of the 8080 interface and that you have to hook up to your host microcontroller and then either use the FSMC/FMC peripheral of your STM32 (if any) or you have to bitbang it. But those are control lanes of the bus itself.
2019-12-16T20:10:39 < tcth> well you can also just use SPI (which might be a good idea here as you only need it for initialization)
2019-12-16T20:11:09 < tcth> the display controller you´re using offers both 8080 and SPI. so you can just use the SPI and set the proper mode with IM[0:3]
2019-12-16T20:11:19 < tcth> the datasheet of the display controller will have plenty of examples for this.
2019-12-16T20:11:36 < Mangy_Dog> but the eve chip only runs parallel
2019-12-16T20:11:37 < tcth> the datasheet you linked is the display module datasheet. You want to look up the display controller datasheet.
2019-12-16T20:11:38 < aandrew> why in the hell would you bitbang 18 bit video
2019-12-16T20:11:48 < tcth> aandrew, I´ve seen it all
2019-12-16T20:11:51 < aandrew> not sure you'd even want to FSMC it
2019-12-16T20:12:00 < Mangy_Dog> fsmc?
2019-12-16T20:12:00 < tcth> aandrew, why not?
2019-12-16T20:12:05 < aandrew> tcth: oh I bet, there are lots of crazy people out there
2019-12-16T20:12:11 < tcth> aandrew, also companies...
2019-12-16T20:12:33 < Mangy_Dog> the eve chip is a fantastic little graphics chip... but it uses paralell rgb to drive displays... and at 60fps i might add
2019-12-16T20:12:36 < aandrew> well I think you'd want to hang it off the display interface itself if possible (when spitting out raw data) but I guess you can have your 18-bit framebuffer and DMA it
2019-12-16T20:13:00 < Mangy_Dog> aandrew the stm32 doesnt drive the display
2019-12-16T20:13:04 < Mangy_Dog> the eve chip does
2019-12-16T20:13:27 < aandrew> ah, I'm not familiar with what you're trying to do. Thought you were driving the display with an 8080 bus from stm32
2019-12-16T20:13:52 < tcth> aandrew, yeah, many options and what is best depends as usual on the case. But I have literally driven hundreds of display modules with an 8080 interface off of FSMC/FMC
2019-12-16T20:14:20 < aandrew> *nods*
2019-12-16T20:14:38 < Mangy_Dog> well actually ive just reread a reply from buydisplay
2019-12-16T20:14:49 < Mangy_Dog> they say I run the display in SPI mode and then run init code to get it to run paralell
2019-12-16T20:15:06 < tcth> yes, as mentioned above.
2019-12-16T20:15:10 < Mangy_Dog> just amazing i have no idea what the code is
2019-12-16T20:15:11 < Mangy_Dog> yeah
2019-12-16T20:15:16 < tcth> but definitely recheck the IM[0:3] pins
2019-12-16T20:15:17 < Mangy_Dog> oh btw
2019-12-16T20:15:27 < Mangy_Dog> ili9341 is the driver chip
2019-12-16T20:15:29 < tcth> they select the default communication mode/method that you´ll have to use at startup
2019-12-16T20:15:42 < Mangy_Dog> yeah those will have to be set to spi mode
2019-12-16T20:15:54 < aandrew> huh, never looked at these eve chips before
2019-12-16T20:16:06 < Mangy_Dog> so i can talk to it in spi then... and then in code make it flip into parallel mode
2019-12-16T20:16:07 < aandrew> basically they're just a tft controller with their own framebuffer?
2019-12-16T20:16:13 < Mangy_Dog> yeah
2019-12-16T20:16:17 < Mangy_Dog> and really nifty too
2019-12-16T20:16:26 < tcth> why are you using an ili9341 if you´re also using an FTDI eve?
2019-12-16T20:16:27 < aandrew> yeah I'm looking at the BT816
2019-12-16T20:16:28 < Mangy_Dog> can make amazingly detailed high level uis with them
2019-12-16T20:16:42 < Mangy_Dog> tcth i needed a small display for this project
2019-12-16T20:16:50 < tcth> aandrew, the ILI9341 already is a tft controller with it´s own framebuffer. but the FT800 also has a framebuffer
2019-12-16T20:16:53 < Mangy_Dog> its the ONLY display i could find with a decent viewing angle
2019-12-16T20:16:56 < tcth> which makes using an ILI9341 here a bit wasteful
2019-12-16T20:17:02 < aandrew> completely offloaded from the CPU. I wonder if the display library that ST bought is better (if you've already got the CPU that cna drive the display0
2019-12-16T20:17:09 < Mangy_Dog> its just the interface the display has
2019-12-16T20:17:27 < dongs> i was gonna make someshit with eve but the API is jsut too fucking gay
2019-12-16T20:17:28 < tcth> Qt release Qt for MCU 1.0 today btw
2019-12-16T20:17:38 < tcth> dongs, +1
2019-12-16T20:17:45 < Mangy_Dog> wish qt did a eve aimed version :p
2019-12-16T20:17:47 < dongs> never got past usign their shitty protoboard then put it back in the box and forgotten
2019-12-16T20:18:09 < aandrew> ILI9341 drives the bare LCD; eve drives the parallel display on the input of the ILI
2019-12-16T20:18:36 < Mangy_Dog> yeah
2019-12-16T20:18:38 < dongs> seems kinda dumb tho i guess otherwise youd need a 24bit rgb
2019-12-16T20:18:49 < tcth> that ^
2019-12-16T20:18:53 < Mangy_Dog> well
2019-12-16T20:19:06 < aandrew> doesn't look like ILI+EVE is a dumb idea, eve doesn't drive the raw tft, it drives the pixel bus
2019-12-16T20:19:20 < aandrew> iv'e done very, very little with HMIs
2019-12-16T20:19:32 < Mangy_Dog> show me an affordable 2.8 inch 320x240 with wide viewing angle and pure simple parallel interface and ill get it
2019-12-16T20:19:40 < Mangy_Dog> bonus points if its IPS
2019-12-16T20:19:41 < Mangy_Dog> :p
2019-12-16T20:20:14 < Mangy_Dog> tbh this is only happening with this project because ive been burned by nextion badly
2019-12-16T20:20:20 < aandrew> sl all these canned display modules are just an eve doing the heavy lifting
2019-12-16T20:20:24 < aandrew> interesting
2019-12-16T20:20:29 < Mangy_Dog> using this eve chip for a fake UI effect is massivly over kill and a huge amount of work
2019-12-16T20:20:35 < tcth> aandrew, never seen the eve before?
2019-12-16T20:20:39 < aandrew> "fake ui effect" ?
2019-12-16T20:20:53 < aandrew> tcth: nope. like I said I do very very little with graphics or HMIs
2019-12-16T20:21:00 < Mangy_Dog> aandrew its a prop im making... So im coding and animating in code an UI doing things
2019-12-16T20:21:04 < Mangy_Dog> for a visual effect
2019-12-16T20:21:11 < aandrew> Mangy_Dog: aha
2019-12-16T20:21:18 < aandrew> why not just buy a canned moudle then
2019-12-16T20:21:40 < Mangy_Dog> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Gd7v6aOUmMA
2019-12-16T20:21:42 < Mangy_Dog> eve
2019-12-16T20:21:45 < tcth> aandrew, the FTDI EVE is basically a small GPU. It can do simple things like rendering shapes or just blit an entire GUI from local memory
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2019-12-16T20:22:03 < Mangy_Dog> yeah indeed it has its limits
2019-12-16T20:22:05 < tcth> if you want fancy stuff on a system with not a lot of resources / without fancy programming this is great
2019-12-16T20:22:06 < Mangy_Dog> some stupid ones too
2019-12-16T20:22:14 < Mangy_Dog> but its emensly powerful for what it is
2019-12-16T20:23:01 < tcth> last time I checked the pricing was in a way that it only made sense for small hobby / DIY projects or very expensive hardware where the customer is willing to pay for a premium - not sure how that is these days
2019-12-16T20:23:28 < tcth> Mangy_Dog, may I ask about your experience with nextion? Disclaimer: I´m the author behind the ugfx library
2019-12-16T20:23:29 < Mangy_Dog> well like i said... please show me a parallel driven tft thats affordable and good viewing angles... And hay ill use it. It would save me some bother
2019-12-16T20:23:35 < aandrew> tcth: yeah I see that
2019-12-16T20:23:59 < Mangy_Dog> the ugfx library?
2019-12-16T20:24:05 < Mangy_Dog> did they rip you off?
2019-12-16T20:24:13 < tcth> Mangy_Dog, https://ugfx.io/
2019-12-16T20:24:28 < tcth> Mangy_Dog, no, I am just interested in hearing customer feedback of people that use different solutions
2019-12-16T20:24:38 < Mangy_Dog> oh i saw that page before...
2019-12-16T20:24:45 < Mangy_Dog> umm
2019-12-16T20:24:47 < Mangy_Dog> honestly....
2019-12-16T20:24:50 < Mangy_Dog> straight up
2019-12-16T20:24:52 < aandrew> this reminds be a bit of clutter for gnome
2019-12-16T20:24:59 < tcth> aandrew, ahahaha
2019-12-16T20:25:09 < Mangy_Dog> the people behind nextion are dishonest con men out to rip people off... Theyre scum....
2019-12-16T20:25:19 < Mangy_Dog> which is a shame as the concept is actually cool
2019-12-16T20:25:20 < tcth> Mangy_Dog, can you elaborate?
2019-12-16T20:25:41 < tcth> Mangy_Dog, did you check our their direct competitor, 4D-Systems? https://4dsystems.com.au/
2019-12-16T20:25:44 < Mangy_Dog> https://unofficialnextion.com/t/i-was-scammed-by-nextion-and-how-nextion-dont-want-you-to-know-about-it/384
2019-12-16T20:25:57 < Mangy_Dog> 4d systems are hidiously expensive
2019-12-16T20:26:09 < Mangy_Dog> and they started off using eve chips but moved away from them i think
2019-12-16T20:26:15 < Mangy_Dog> its been a few years since i last looked at them
2019-12-16T20:26:32 < Mangy_Dog> anwyay that forum post explains how ive been burned lately by nextion
2019-12-16T20:26:47 < Mangy_Dog> but like i say the concept is good
2019-12-16T20:26:55 < Mangy_Dog> a quick simple no fuss way to make basic UIs
2019-12-16T20:27:01 < tcth> Mangy_Dog, 4d systems didn´t start off with the eve chips. They just have (or had?) a few products that also use the eve chips. These FTDI eve chips are ´fairly new´ to the industry.
2019-12-16T20:27:30 < Mangy_Dog> apart from the arseholes behind nextion and tjc massivly obscuring the hardware to make ti impossible to fix
2019-12-16T20:27:33 < dongs> 4D had their own shit using dspic or someshit
2019-12-16T20:27:35 < Mangy_Dog> and the backend having bug they refuse to admit they have
2019-12-16T20:27:36 < dongs> with preflashed firmware
2019-12-16T20:27:45 < dongs> some disgusting shit
2019-12-16T20:27:50 < Mangy_Dog> ahh
2019-12-16T20:27:52 < tcth> Mangy_Dog, please watch your language a bit :)
2019-12-16T20:28:02 < Mangy_Dog> i thought ft800 was around several years ago like 2014 or something
2019-12-16T20:28:17 < tcth> dongs, jup, but they moved away from dspic once that cortex-m was mainstream I think
2019-12-16T20:28:18 < Mangy_Dog> the newer 810 was around for about 4 years... 815 is only about a year old
2019-12-16T20:28:19 < dongs> 2013
2019-12-16T20:28:26 < dongs> for 800
2019-12-16T20:28:34 < tcth> Mangy_Dog, yeah, but 5 or 6 years is not a lot of time for this industry :)
2019-12-16T20:28:36 < Mangy_Dog> well its a good thing i deleted my cbomb :D
2019-12-16T20:28:42 < Mangy_Dog> heh fair enoughj
2019-12-16T20:29:10 < Mangy_Dog> there are a few strange limitations that i dont understand with eve
2019-12-16T20:29:19 < Mangy_Dog> why only 2048 command per frame limit
2019-12-16T20:29:25 < tcth> Mangy_Dog, most product development times where an eve could be used are easily 12 to 36 years. We have a lot of customers that talk to us initially for the HW design phase and then half a year later for initial prototype stuff and then another 12 months later for final FW optimization.
2019-12-16T20:29:25 < Mangy_Dog> strange arbitary number
2019-12-16T20:29:35 < Mangy_Dog> also the bitmap handle limit
2019-12-16T20:29:37 < Mangy_Dog> again strange
2019-12-16T20:29:38 < tcth> how is 2048 a strange number?
2019-12-16T20:29:48 < aandrew> I was just going to ask the same
2019-12-16T20:30:03 < aandrew> that seems like a sane limit in the sense that it's power of 2 and likely the size of some circular buffer
2019-12-16T20:30:03 < Mangy_Dog> strange as in why? why limit it its only gl commands they could easily have had 4096
2019-12-16T20:30:11 < Mangy_Dog> i mean i get that its within a bit range
2019-12-16T20:30:13 < Mangy_Dog> but still
2019-12-16T20:30:16 < Mangy_Dog> why the limit
2019-12-16T20:30:27 < Mangy_Dog> when you really think about it 2048 is a tight command budget
2019-12-16T20:31:11 < Mangy_Dog> but again the straine other limit is bitmap handles
2019-12-16T20:31:12 < Mangy_Dog> 32
2019-12-16T20:31:18 < Mangy_Dog> but half of those are reserved for fonts
2019-12-16T20:31:31 < Mangy_Dog> but you also have a 1mb or is it 2mb ram limit
2019-12-16T20:31:39 < Mangy_Dog> Why not have unlimited handles but just have the ram limit
2019-12-16T20:31:43 < Mangy_Dog> that would have made more sense
2019-12-16T20:32:21 < Mangy_Dog> it doesnt stop me making good uis with it
2019-12-16T20:32:37 < Mangy_Dog> and ive been increadibly frugal with my ui design
2019-12-16T20:32:50 < Mangy_Dog> but its just strange limits that i dont get why theyre there
2019-12-16T20:35:32 < aandrew> could be how the internal memory is segmented/organized
2019-12-16T20:35:44 < Mangy_Dog> maybe
2019-12-16T20:36:02 < Mangy_Dog> i mean if anything... i would have prefered a higher command limit
2019-12-16T20:36:32 < Mangy_Dog> given it takes about 5 commands to draw anything up to 20 commands for a palleted bitmap
2019-12-16T20:50:10 < tcth> would you also have paid more for it?
2019-12-16T20:50:44 < tcth> For a project I developed an FTDI eve equivalent chip from the ground up (in an FPGA with the potential to go ASIC ofc). These kind of numbers cost money
2019-12-16T20:50:53 < tcth> numbers as in specs
2019-12-16T20:51:04 < Mangy_Dog> well the 810 is about 3 quid per chip
2019-12-16T20:51:15 < Mangy_Dog> 815 about 7 quid
2019-12-16T20:51:28 < tcth> for most MCU based embedded systems that is a shit ton of money
2019-12-16T20:51:51 < tcth> if it costs the company who makes the electronic 3 quid it will cost the end user 9 quid
2019-12-16T20:52:08 < Mangy_Dog> id imagen the bulk buy would be more reasonable so if you were making a product to sell thousands or not 10s of thousands or hundreds
2019-12-16T20:52:22 < tcth> FTDI is not known for more reasonable bulk buys
2019-12-16T20:52:30 < Mangy_Dog> hmm
2019-12-16T20:52:32 < tcth> with these kind of chips that is usually never a thing
2019-12-16T20:52:35 < tcth> because they are such a niece product
2019-12-16T20:52:45 < Laurenceb> epic fail
2019-12-16T20:52:59 < tcth> niche*
2019-12-16T20:53:00 * Laurenceb just tried to make cheese on toast with a toaster
2019-12-16T20:53:08 < Laurenceb> it _almost_ works
2019-12-16T20:53:22 < Mangy_Dog> i dont know if niche is fair
2019-12-16T20:53:24 < tcth> Laurenceb, get the sandwich bags: https://cdn.shopify.com/s/files/1/1892/2917/products/iwantzone-com-reusable-toaster-bag-baking-mats-liners-bakeware-liner-homeware-kitchen_317_2000x.jpg?v=1560180443
2019-12-16T20:53:28 < Mangy_Dog> it really depends
2019-12-16T20:53:31 < Mangy_Dog> it has its use case
2019-12-16T20:53:33 < Laurenceb> heh useful product
2019-12-16T20:53:39 < tcth> Mangy_Dog, I can assure you to 100% that the FTDI eve is a _VERY_ niche product.
2019-12-16T20:53:40 < Mangy_Dog> low powered
2019-12-16T20:53:46 < Mangy_Dog> so you dont need a pi based system
2019-12-16T20:53:51 < Laurenceb> mounting the toaster on its side it almost works but one end burns and makes too much smoke
2019-12-16T20:54:13 < Laurenceb> if you did it outside and chopped the end off it would be perfect, but atm my room is filled with smoke :-/
2019-12-16T20:54:15 < Mangy_Dog> no full computer to run displays at a hige interactive fedelity
2019-12-16T20:54:21 < Mangy_Dog> high
2019-12-16T20:54:35 < tcth> Mangy_Dog, well that you can do all without an eve as well
2019-12-16T20:54:46 < Mangy_Dog> in this smart phone world... people dont expect to see low quality displays on there coffee machine:p
2019-12-16T20:54:56 < tcth> I have plenty of F103, F4 and F7 based designs (and customer designs) that do all of the fancy GUI with animations and everything without an eve
2019-12-16T20:55:16 < Laurenceb> this begs the question: can you reflow pcbs using the same method
2019-12-16T20:55:18 < Mangy_Dog> but at 60fps and at the quality of it without tearing?
2019-12-16T20:55:24 < Mangy_Dog> ignoring f7
2019-12-16T20:55:32 < Mangy_Dog> as thats near enough an sbc anyway
2019-12-16T20:55:33 < Mangy_Dog> :p
2019-12-16T20:55:35 < tcth> I think you misunderstand the eve thing a bit... this is not a ´now things are possible that were not possible before´ solution. It only makes certain things in certain situations easier.
2019-12-16T20:55:40 < Mangy_Dog> but say up to f4
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2019-12-16T20:56:49 < Mangy_Dog> btw im not saying youre wrong
2019-12-16T20:57:13 < Mangy_Dog> ive just not seen any low level embeded gui look as good as they have in eve yet
2019-12-16T20:57:21 < Mangy_Dog> even little vgl on a f4
2019-12-16T20:57:29 < tcth> well the suckiest part of uGFX is that we don´t have nice demos because all of our examples are written to work on literally any system (very low resource requirements) and all the fancy stuff is done by the user/customer, but look at our competition for example: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QcKX_Pc6ldU
2019-12-16T20:57:49 < tcth> Mangy_Dog, and that is completely okay and that is where an eve makes sense - but that´s exactly the niche I was referring to :)
2019-12-16T20:57:57 < Mangy_Dog> :)
2019-12-16T20:58:17 < Mangy_Dog> the other thing i think littlevgl lacks is graphicbitmap assets for ui elements...
2019-12-16T20:58:34 < Mangy_Dog> ok that toughgfx demo looks decent
2019-12-16T20:58:42 < Mangy_Dog> looks like its also around 40fps?
2019-12-16T20:58:48 < Mangy_Dog> maybe 20
2019-12-16T20:59:28 < Mangy_Dog> also in this case im using the eve to redor my tricorder prop... ill later be making a new bike dash
2019-12-16T20:59:55 < tcth> I gotta dive back into my work now
2019-12-16T21:00:02 < Mangy_Dog> okays
2019-12-16T21:00:09 < Mangy_Dog> i honestly want to talk more later
2019-12-16T21:00:09 < jpa-> tcth: you can't do work at this time in evening
2019-12-16T21:00:58 < tcth> Mangy_Dog, always happy to. I can bring 10 years of embedded graphics experience both as a hobby-st and as a company on the table :p
2019-12-16T21:01:03 < tcth> jpa-, lies! :o
2019-12-16T21:01:12 < Mangy_Dog> :D
2019-12-16T21:01:28 < Mangy_Dog> will be useful as i might be getting a job in UI for a large company very soon
2019-12-16T21:01:31 < Mangy_Dog> and i know i have some gaps to fill
2019-12-16T21:01:42 < Steffanx> Isnt it the perfect time? Kid is in bed right? jpa- ?
2019-12-16T21:02:09 < jpa-> Steffanx: sure, for me, but tcth should be making kids with his gf
2019-12-16T21:03:02 < Steffanx> Hm
2019-12-16T21:03:13 < tcth> jpa-, no kids action planned for the next 12 to 36 months
2019-12-16T21:03:27 < Steffanx> -3 months
2019-12-16T21:03:29 < tcth> the reason I am working is so that I can actually afford having kids I guess
2019-12-16T21:03:38 < jpa-> well, you should be having that "no kids action" then instead
2019-12-16T21:03:50 < zyp> Steffanx, did you send me a christmas present? I got a notification in my post tracking app today that there's a package on the way to me, doesn't say anything except the tracking number which ends in NL
2019-12-16T21:04:05 < Steffanx> Nope. Cant have been me
2019-12-16T21:04:06 < jpa-> zyp: it's the weed you ordered
2019-12-16T21:04:07 < zyp> I don't expect anything from NL, so I have no idea what it is
2019-12-16T21:04:28 < Steffanx> Does it start with LX?
2019-12-16T21:04:34 < zyp> yes
2019-12-16T21:04:44 < tcth> zyp, like a week ago I received a letter also with NL origin (with legit NL envelop and stuff) but it was actually from Italy - parking fine.
2019-12-16T21:04:48 < Steffanx> For me those are aliexpress tracking numbers
2019-12-16T21:04:51 < zyp> LX blah blah, NL
2019-12-16T21:05:00 < zyp> hmm
2019-12-16T21:05:14 < zyp> right, I do expect something from aliexpress
2019-12-16T21:05:18 < Steffanx> Aliexpress express/standard shipping
2019-12-16T21:06:28 < zyp> oh, yeah, there's the same tracking number on the aliexpress order
2019-12-16T21:06:45 < zyp> so they bulk ship a ton of shit to NL and distribute out from there?
2019-12-16T21:08:55 < zyp> thanks anyway, mystery explained
2019-12-16T21:09:19 < Steffanx> There is some bulk shipping to dutchland yes.
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2019-12-16T21:17:10 < bitmask> horrible pic and the light unfortunately bleeds through to other light pipes but these are pretty cool https://i.imgur.com/gKN7AdT.png
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2019-12-16T21:18:37 < bitmask> I only ordered 10 though, oops
2019-12-16T21:18:52 -!- c10ud^ [~c10ud@emesene/dictator/c10ud] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds]
2019-12-16T21:18:58 < kakipro> kinda lowish VBUS
2019-12-16T21:19:28 < tcth> bitmask, nice
2019-12-16T21:19:36 < tcth> VBUS is afaik fine >= 4.4V
2019-12-16T21:19:43 < tcth> according to specs I remember
2019-12-16T21:20:12 < bitmask> could it be voltage drop from the IC?
2019-12-16T21:20:35 < kakipro> what is idle voltage?
2019-12-16T21:20:42 < tcth> well... at 650mA it could already be the high resistance of crappy/chinese/cheap USB connectors like on that meter I assume
2019-12-16T21:20:46 < bitmask> 5.06
2019-12-16T21:20:59 < tcth> don´t underestimage the voltage drop of crappy connectors...
2019-12-16T21:21:00 < kakipro> that is quite a lot of voltage drop
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2019-12-16T21:23:32 < Steffanx> Is it?
2019-12-16T21:27:18 -!- BrainDamage [~BrainDama@unaffiliated/braindamage] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds]
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2019-12-16T21:54:44 < kakipro> yes
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2019-12-16T22:03:58 < Steffanx> should use sma connectors right?
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2019-12-16T22:09:28 < karlp> zyp: yeah, I get heaps of ali shit that's all dutch post, with NL tracking numbers
2019-12-16T22:10:02 < Steffanx> i like it. i somethimes get my shit in 5 days
2019-12-16T22:21:41 < zyp> I order from aliexpress regularly too, but it's the first time I see this
2019-12-16T22:22:11 < upgrdman> SMPS pros: with a buck converter, if you want to reduce output ripple, you wants more inducatance, right?
2019-12-16T22:23:05 < Thorn> more inductance = less current ripple in the inductor
2019-12-16T22:23:22 < zyp> my guess would be more capacitance
2019-12-16T22:24:14 < upgrdman> i probably should have done some math instead of YOLOing this circuit. getting +/- 150mV of noise on my 3.3V rail :)
2019-12-16T22:24:37 < Laurenceb> this is what ur future looks like https://external-content.duckduckgo.com/iu/?u=http%3A%2F%2Fi.dailymail.co.uk%2Fi%2Fpix%2F2016%2F12%2F20%2F18%2F237EEFBC00000578-4052628-image-a-2_1482258438198.jpg&f=1&nofb=1
2019-12-16T22:24:39 < upgrdman> but i'm going from 48V down to 3.3V, so ya
2019-12-16T22:24:49 < Thorn> iirc output voltage ripple depends on output capacitors and their ESR (the last part is critical)
2019-12-16T22:25:03 < upgrdman> right now all caps are MLCC
2019-12-16T22:25:08 < upgrdman> but ya, not much capacitance
2019-12-16T22:25:21 < Steffanx> Hows your future Laurenceb? Job hunting yet?
2019-12-16T22:25:40 < Laurenceb> nah working on muh space runway
2019-12-16T22:25:54 < Laurenceb> need to email some people about jerbs, maybe next year
2019-12-16T22:26:10 < Steffanx> space runway. like that is ever going to happen
2019-12-16T22:26:12 < Laurenceb> hopefully I'll avoid being a biorobot slave for lord Bezos
2019-12-16T22:26:28 < Laurenceb> more likely than wambulance babbyshake
2019-12-16T22:28:41 < bitmask> upgrdman whats the switching frequency
2019-12-16T22:28:55 < upgrdman> 850kHz
2019-12-16T22:29:10 < bitmask> what what output capacitance do you have?
2019-12-16T22:29:11 < upgrdman> using 22uH :)
2019-12-16T22:29:21 < bitmask> and what*
2019-12-16T22:29:23 < upgrdman> maybe 300-400uF total
2019-12-16T22:29:33 < upgrdman> 100uF near the dc/dc
2019-12-16T22:30:19 < Thorn> upgrdman: are you sure you're probing correctly
2019-12-16T22:30:26 < bitmask> that seems like a lot?
2019-12-16T22:30:28 < Thorn> see a recent Dave video
2019-12-16T22:30:37 < upgrdman> Thorn, ground spring
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2019-12-16T22:30:45 < upgrdman> no doing 50ohm tho
2019-12-16T22:30:58 < upgrdman> but ground spring with 10x probe
2019-12-16T22:31:30 < Thorn> try probing farther away from the inductor
2019-12-16T22:32:14 < bitmask> what SMPS is it?
2019-12-16T22:32:54 < bitmask> if its MP, they have a circuit builder for all their supplies where you can set the ripple
2019-12-16T22:33:02 < bitmask> not sure who else has something like that
2019-12-16T22:37:04 < bitmask> im curious what my ripple is, I'm using 2x10uF on the input and 2x22uF on the output, its 1.2 MHz though
2019-12-16T22:37:37 < tcth> somebody tell me about their sad feelings.
2019-12-16T22:38:16 < Steffanx> Who has the saddest story?
2019-12-16T22:39:24 < Ultrasauce> updated some software and the new version has a different pricing model, ruling out our free use case
2019-12-16T22:40:08 < tcth> Ultrasauce saying something without using very fancy words? You indeed must be truly devastated.
2019-12-16T22:40:28 < tcth> I kind of missed the occasional learning of new words during my absence the past few months/years
2019-12-16T22:40:42 < Ultrasauce> im only magniloquent in a particular set of moods
2019-12-16T22:40:58 < tcth> did you sent hate mail yet?
2019-12-16T22:41:14 < Steffanx> Better find some of that mood Ultrasauce
2019-12-16T22:41:36 < Ultrasauce> no but am probably going to ditch this vendor in favour of the foss they build upon while adding minimal value
2019-12-16T22:42:27 < Steffanx> hm
2019-12-16T22:42:36 < Steffanx> foss as in FOSS?
2019-12-16T22:42:39 < Ultrasauce> yes
2019-12-16T22:43:20 < upgrdman> oh shit
2019-12-16T22:43:25 < upgrdman> i think i found my problem
2019-12-16T22:43:39 < upgrdman> getting same ripple on v input
2019-12-16T22:43:45 < upgrdman> so prolly need more input cap
2019-12-16T22:44:53 < tcth> Ultrasauce, what sw are you hating about?
2019-12-16T22:45:18 < Ultrasauce> i kinda like keeping it vague cause it actually applies to multiple things on my plate rn
2019-12-16T22:45:23 < Ultrasauce> but today's is gitkraken
2019-12-16T22:45:44 < Ultrasauce> which I do not use but my juniors do
2019-12-16T22:45:46 < tcth> oh, fuck gitkraken
2019-12-16T22:45:58 < tcth> Ultrasauce, I use exclusively: https://git-fork.com
2019-12-16T22:46:09 < tcth> but that´s of course //just// a client
2019-12-16T22:46:10 < Ultrasauce> >mac and windows
2019-12-16T22:46:31 < tcth> well if you use Linux you have other things to worry about I guess
2019-12-16T22:46:50 < tcth> go BSD or go Windows :p
2019-12-16T22:47:06 < tcth> Linux is like the Windows of Unix
2019-12-16T22:47:15 < Steffanx> no that is mac os
2019-12-16T22:47:20 < tcth> lolno
2019-12-16T22:47:23 < tcth> mac os is pretty nice
2019-12-16T22:47:25 < tcth> also BSD :p
2019-12-16T22:47:32 < Steffanx> say that again?
2019-12-16T22:47:39 < tcth> Yes, you hear me.
2019-12-16T22:47:44 < bitmask> I like it too :P
2019-12-16T22:47:50 < Ultrasauce> technically it's a fork of bsd
2019-12-16T22:47:55 < tcth> Steffanx, something about growing up? :p
2019-12-16T22:47:56 < Ultrasauce> that happened 20 years ago
2019-12-16T22:48:13 < tcth> yep, which makes it great
2019-12-16T22:48:17 < tcth> (in that aspect)
2019-12-16T22:48:31 < tcth> all of this is ofc just my opinion - which is of course heavily biased in all aspects.
2019-12-16T22:49:15 < tcth> and with the usual amount of ##stm32 bullshittery
2019-12-16T22:49:42 < h4x0riz3d> ##stm32 shullbittery
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2019-12-16T22:50:10 < tcth> who ever you are... -> exactly!
2019-12-16T22:50:22 < tcth> dat nick tho... wat is it? 2003?
2019-12-16T22:50:45 < Steffanx> even with his own nick you wouldnt know him
2019-12-16T22:50:49 < Steffanx> *old
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2019-12-16T22:51:18 < tcth> was I gone for so long?
2019-12-16T22:51:56 < Steffanx> Yeah
2019-12-16T22:53:32 < tcth> :(
2019-12-16T22:53:51 < tcth> Ultrasauce, nah but seriously: are you looking for a decent collaboration tool?
2019-12-16T22:54:15 < Ultrasauce> just a git ui
2019-12-16T22:54:31 < Ultrasauce> fork looks good but not good enough to go through the pain of running it in wine
2019-12-16T22:54:51 < Ultrasauce> i might just start training my folks to use the git cli
2019-12-16T22:55:10 < tcth> I showed git-fork to all my folks and they just continued using git cli
2019-12-16T22:56:39 < Steffanx> did you fire em?
2019-12-16T22:57:24 < tcth> some of them, eventually. But for unrelated reasons, of course.
2019-12-16T22:57:25 < Steffanx> so what is a decent collaboration tool?
2019-12-16T22:57:31 < tcth> one is still going strong
2019-12-16T22:57:40 < tcth> Steffanx, depends on your needs I guess
2019-12-16T22:58:01 < Steffanx> what is one according to mr tcth?
2019-12-16T22:58:50 < tcth> https://phacility.com/phabricator/
2019-12-16T22:58:56 < tcth> using it for years
2019-12-16T22:58:58 < tcth> never looked back
2019-12-16T22:59:02 < tcth> developed by facebook
2019-12-16T22:59:06 < tcth> open sourced
2019-12-16T22:59:13 < tcth> now still OSS but with company behind it
2019-12-16T22:59:51 < tcth> of all the tools we host ourselves this is by fast the most stable one with the best experience
2019-12-16T23:01:29 < Ultrasauce> that looks pretty neat, if i ever get the urge to migrate away from gitlab it will certainly be a contender
2019-12-16T23:02:23 < Ultrasauce> >Written in PHP so literally anyone can contribute, even if they have no idea how to program.
2019-12-16T23:02:32 < tcth> yep. I spent 5 months testing a lot of tools (gitlab, github, atlassian, ... like even fucking trello). Three days after I gave up I came across this.
2019-12-16T23:03:03 < tcth> yeah, the UI & manual is full of those kinds of easter eggs as well
2019-12-16T23:03:09 < tcth> the website is basically //just// that :p
2019-12-16T23:03:14 < Thorn> the only reason to write anything in php these days is trolling
2019-12-16T23:03:34 < tcth> I agree. But I can also say that this is by far the highest quality PHP application I ever saw, used & hosted.
2019-12-16T23:03:41 < tcth> Those folks know what they are doing.
2019-12-16T23:04:24 < Steffanx> php HAH
2019-12-16T23:04:29 < brdb> hey that phabricator thing looks nifty huh
2019-12-16T23:04:54 < tcth> nobody I ever showed/recommended it to knew it - yet everybody who does likes it :p
2019-12-16T23:05:18 < brdb> this isn't chinese spyware, you're not a cop, right tcth?
2019-12-16T23:05:24 < brdb> if you were a cop you'd have to tell me
2019-12-16T23:05:29 < brdb> thems the rules
2019-12-16T23:05:45 < tcth> I have a self hosted Phabricator instance for 5 years now. 150 git repositories in there, CI and everything. about 2k tasks. I use it for solo projects and with internal projects of 12 employees and also with external people. always worked just 100% fine.
2019-12-16T23:06:01 < tcth> brdb, that rule doesn´t apply in switzerland
2019-12-16T23:06:39 < specing> Ultrasauce: lol
2019-12-16T23:06:47 < specing> so true
2019-12-16T23:07:16 < tcth> specing, it´s a quote from their product website ;)
2019-12-16T23:07:54 < Steffanx> How to do this in Ada specing?
2019-12-16T23:08:00 < specing> Steffanx: do what?
2019-12-16T23:08:07 < Steffanx> Everything.
2019-12-16T23:08:17 < specing> with Ada, naturally
2019-12-16T23:09:11 < tcth> lol, that point goes to specing
2019-12-16T23:09:17 < h4x0riz3d> get'ada'here ;P~
2019-12-16T23:11:07 < Thorn> btw speaking of Ada, how does it implement something like Put_Line("Hello " & name); ? wouldn't it need to malloc() a buffer to hold the concatenated string and then auto delete it?
2019-12-16T23:11:41 < Steffanx> The answer usign specing logic: With ada, naturally.
2019-12-16T23:13:28 < specing> Thorn: I don't think so, Ada knows how long both strings are and can create an array on the stack
2019-12-16T23:13:43 < h4x0riz3d> Ada has a third eye
2019-12-16T23:13:57 < h4x0riz3d> it knowz yer sh*t before u know it
2019-12-16T23:14:31 < specing> Thorn: though I admit I've never tried it on cortex-m (where Im picky with executable size)
2019-12-16T23:14:37 < Cracki> it should know at compile time how long each string is, and then allocate the maximum space for this expression
2019-12-16T23:15:23 < Cracki> but yes, stack. it's designed to know stuff at compile time so you can get hard numbers for memory usage.
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2019-12-16T23:16:29 < h4x0riz3d> isn't that gonna be similar to using constexpr and compile-time template shizzle in C++?
2019-12-16T23:16:36 < h4x0riz3d> ..at the end
2019-12-16T23:16:45 < zyp> yes
2019-12-16T23:16:46 < Cracki> not sure. the length stuff is type system.
2019-12-16T23:17:13 < Cracki> actually evaluating the expression at compile time, if that's even possible ("name" contents...)
2019-12-16T23:17:19 < h4x0riz3d> yeah, so in Ada you're just.. using it, while in C++ you have to put a lil effort in it
2019-12-16T23:17:25 < Cracki> it can certainly try but semantics don't require that
2019-12-16T23:18:28 < Cracki> with ada you'd want to avoid heap usage and instead figure out (or have it figure out) how many of something you'll ever need and then allocate that and use memory from that
2019-12-16T23:18:36 < Thorn> T - 3 h https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sbXgZg9JmkI
2019-12-16T23:19:08 < Cracki> iirc ada "heaps" are a feature/non-feature depending on profile. some profiles won't allow heaps.
2019-12-16T23:19:46 < Cracki> it has the notion of "pools"
2019-12-16T23:20:30 < Cracki> http://archive.adaic.com/ase/ase02_01/bookcase/ada_sh/lrm95/RM-13-11.html
2019-12-16T23:21:47 < h4x0riz3d> u seem to know too much about it, Cracki
2019-12-16T23:21:53 < h4x0riz3d> are u ada'ya'mind?
2019-12-16T23:22:15 < Cracki> heard a lecture and did some exercises on it some years ago. I'm about as fluent in it as I am in french
2019-12-16T23:22:29 < Cracki> fenetre fromage sacre bleu and that's it
2019-12-16T23:22:50 < specing> Cracki: no at compile time, at run time. Ada strings are not null terminated
2019-12-16T23:23:06 < Cracki> could you rephrase that
2019-12-16T23:23:08 < h4x0riz3d> busted ^
2019-12-16T23:23:12 < h4x0riz3d> >:)
2019-12-16T23:24:07 < specing> with Ada you don't have to avoid heap usage, the language itself is advanced enough that it eliminates heap usage for most simply programs
2019-12-16T23:24:09 < specing> simple*
2019-12-16T23:24:14 < Cracki> what do ada strings having a length have to do with the fact that it can determine the maximum length of a string concatenation at compile time?
2019-12-16T23:24:20 < specing> like returning records from functions and stuff
2019-12-16T23:24:30 < Cracki> told ya, that expression wouldn't use heap, it would use stack
2019-12-16T23:24:49 < h4x0riz3d> soupe de porc, tres bien ;P~
2019-12-16T23:25:10 < Cracki> french pork comes with pepper (spray)
2019-12-16T23:25:15 < specing> Cracki: Put_Line("Hello " & HTTP_Fetch("some url"); How does it determine the length in this case, at compile time?
2019-12-16T23:25:20 < Cracki> now now
2019-12-16T23:25:27 < Cracki> does that function exist
2019-12-16T23:25:29 < h4x0riz3d> (i cheated with google translate)
2019-12-16T23:25:30 < Cracki> and what are its semantics
2019-12-16T23:25:36 < specing> yes, but its called differently
2019-12-16T23:26:10 < Cracki> if it can return a string of practically unlimited length, *that* would be trouble
2019-12-16T23:26:24 < zyp> specing, presumably the max length is limited
2019-12-16T23:26:27 < zyp> like snprintf
2019-12-16T23:26:31 < specing> zyp: by memory, sure
2019-12-16T23:26:38 < Cracki> by type system even
2019-12-16T23:26:41 < specing> (secondary stack length)
2019-12-16T23:26:51 < zyp> I mean by type system
2019-12-16T23:27:00 < Cracki> https://en.wikibooks.org/wiki/Ada_Programming/Strings#Bounded-length_string_handling
2019-12-16T23:27:00 < specing> why would it be?
2019-12-16T23:27:12 < h4x0riz3d> how interesting, i wrote "тръмп е сжиня" into google translate.. i autocorrected my typo (сжиня -> свиня) and translated it to "Trump est un porc" >:)
2019-12-16T23:27:19 < zyp> specing, because that is the point?
2019-12-16T23:27:19 < Cracki> apparently the type system distinguishes between bounded length and unbounded length
2019-12-16T23:27:59 < zyp> specing, this conversation is now going like «how would this work?» «like this» «why like that?»
2019-12-16T23:28:07 < h4x0riz3d> now i bet that just gave me another bunch of negative points in some list somewhere
2019-12-16T23:28:10 < zyp> because that would make it work, duh
2019-12-16T23:28:29 < Cracki> in the case that an operand is an unbounded length string, that string itself might not sit on the stack
2019-12-16T23:29:01 < Cracki> h4x0riz3d, if your critique of him is that he went back on his promises to his voters, that's legitimate
2019-12-16T23:29:38 < h4x0riz3d> see, i think google just twisted my words
2019-12-16T23:29:40 < Cracki> the whole point of ada is that everything has ranges or lengths
2019-12-16T23:29:45 < Cracki> integers have a range
2019-12-16T23:29:55 < h4x0riz3d> coz i didn't type it
2019-12-16T23:30:17 < Cracki> not just so it can pick the number of bits to use, but ALSO so it can work with intervals and e.g. fgure out if an integer used as an index into an array can violate bounds, or can't
2019-12-16T23:30:55 < Cracki> if it can't, no need for a runtime bounds check
2019-12-16T23:30:56 < h4x0riz3d> i wonder what will google do if i say "i wanna **** trump" ;P~ will it kinda.. insert a lil verb in there for me? ;P~
2019-12-16T23:31:00 < Cracki> it it could, runtime bounds check
2019-12-16T23:31:05 < Cracki> it it will, compile time complaint
2019-12-16T23:31:31 < Cracki> you sound familiar
2019-12-16T23:31:39 < h4x0riz3d> me?
2019-12-16T23:31:45 < Cracki> yes
2019-12-16T23:31:48 < h4x0riz3d> doh
2019-12-16T23:31:57 < Cracki> the ;P~ gives it away. just took me a while
2019-12-16T23:32:10 < h4x0riz3d> of course, that's my trade mark
2019-12-16T23:33:57 < specing> Cracki: I get compiler complaint on all lines where a runtime check might be emitted
2019-12-16T23:34:21 < specing> some parts of my code really light up like a xmas tree in the IDE
2019-12-16T23:34:39 < Cracki> ada is intentionally autistic :P
2019-12-16T23:34:47 < Cracki> very detail oriented
2019-12-16T23:34:56 < specing> Most of those checks don't happen in the end, and sadly it does not take that feedback into account
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2019-12-16T23:35:05 < specing> dont happen = aren't emitted
2019-12-16T23:35:36 < specing> maybe GNAT2019 is better in this regard
2019-12-16T23:37:42 < Thorn> >Most noticeable is that each Bounded-Length String is a different type
2019-12-16T23:37:50 < Thorn> lol just like ++
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2019-12-16T23:41:33 < Cracki> suspicious looking implements https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7kMpFZ1U3wY
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2019-12-17T00:35:26 < jadew`> does anyone know of a better alternative for the stickvise?
2019-12-17T00:37:04 < Cracki> metal rod, metal spring, two pieces of wood with holes drilled through?
2019-12-17T00:37:35 < Cracki> someone I know uses doorstops as bench cookies
2019-12-17T00:37:35 < jadew`> I want something with high temperature jaws
2019-12-17T00:37:52 < Cracki> metal bars with holes then :>
2019-12-17T00:37:57 < jadew`> the stickvise has some optional teflon jaws
2019-12-17T00:38:34 < jadew`> stuff like this pushes me even further towards getting a lathe and a mill
2019-12-17T00:38:55 < Cracki> https://www.aliexpress.com/item/32730552769.html
2019-12-17T00:39:03 < Cracki> doo eet
2019-12-17T00:39:14 < jadew`> that's not spring loaded
2019-12-17T00:39:29 < jadew`> yeah, I don't have a place to put them
2019-12-17T00:39:39 < Cracki> the chinese haven't cloned that yet
2019-12-17T00:39:56 < jadew`> I wish my shop was on the bottom floor, then it wouldn't be a problem
2019-12-17T00:40:32 < jadew`> but I don't make enough money to rent somewhere else and the current location is really cheap
2019-12-17T00:40:48 < Cracki> get some metal shop to make them for you, if the original stickvise is unobtainium or too expensive
2019-12-17T00:40:54 < Cracki> ah
2019-12-17T00:41:14 < Cracki> you don't have to own tools to use them
2019-12-17T00:41:33 < jadew`> you kinda do, if you want to get good at it
2019-12-17T00:41:52 < Cracki> 32.95 usd on amazon. that seems acceptable
2019-12-17T00:41:57 < Cracki> good point
2019-12-17T00:42:07 < jadew`> https://ae01.alicdn.com/kf/HTB11RFmainrK1Rjy1Xcq6yeDVXas.jpg
2019-12-17T00:42:14 < Cracki> pseudo-own. find someone who lets you play with tools.
2019-12-17T00:42:23 < Cracki> there must be maker spaces in .ro
2019-12-17T00:42:47 < jadew`> I'll have to look into it, but I don't know how I feel about it
2019-12-17T00:42:47 < Cracki> Item is good! sign it!
2019-12-17T00:43:00 < Cracki> these delivery guys need to kick the package
2019-12-17T00:43:40 < Cracki> what price would a metal shop ask for a one-off?
2019-12-17T00:43:44 < jadew`> wife checks, the chinese looking husband signs for it
2019-12-17T00:43:50 < Cracki> would a vocational school ask much or anything?
2019-12-17T00:44:00 < jadew`> I don't think it would cost much
2019-12-17T00:44:05 < jadew`> maybe $10
2019-12-17T00:44:13 < Cracki> I hear that the prisons around here have metal workshops and they sell their stuff cheap
2019-12-17T00:44:44 < Cracki> I'm sure if you bribe the right person they would be willing to lock you up and have your way with those machines
2019-12-17T00:44:52 < jadew`> I don't think prisoners here care much about metal working
2019-12-17T00:45:03 < Cracki> they're bored and they can use the money
2019-12-17T00:45:12 < Cracki> or not?
2019-12-17T00:45:33 < Cracki> workshop for the handicapped. those might find it fun.
2019-12-17T00:45:40 < jadew`> don't know, had a friend who spent 10 years in prison and he said he read the whole time
2019-12-17T00:46:23 < jadew`> he looked really dangerous, but could quote Nietzsche
2019-12-17T00:46:42 < Cracki> nietzschean thought, way more dangerous
2019-12-17T00:47:42 < jadew`> he was fascinated by my computer skills
2019-12-17T00:57:17 < Ultrasauce> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KbAIjwWTFI0 additional musicspam
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2019-12-17T01:40:54 < Thorn> T - 30 min https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sbXgZg9JmkI
2019-12-17T01:41:34 < Cracki> dat green mars
2019-12-17T01:41:59 < Cracki> the expanse season 4 has dropped a few days ago
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2019-12-17T01:57:19 < Thorn> stream is live
2019-12-17T02:05:17 < mawk> I made a breakthrough in BIOS hacking
2019-12-17T02:05:34 < mawk> I need to patch GRUB
2019-12-17T02:05:52 < mawk> or anything that lets me call UEFI functions directly
2019-12-17T02:05:57 < mawk> then I can tweak stuff
2019-12-17T02:06:21 < mawk> especially this nice looking variable: 0x178DC3 One Of: ME State, VarStoreInfo (VarOffset/VarName): 0x2, VarStore: 0x1108, QuestionId: 0xCD6, Size: 1, Min: 0x0, Max 0x1, Step: 0x0 {05 91 99 04 9A 04 D6 0C 08 11 02 00 10 10 00 01 00}
2019-12-17T02:19:52 < qyx> whats nice about it
2019-12-17T02:27:28 < BrainDamage> ME engine in intel is the one that supervises all the security
2019-12-17T02:34:11 < mawk> and it's a boolean
2019-12-17T02:34:14 < mawk> enabled/disabled
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2019-12-17T02:34:20 < tcth> why are you not in bed?
2019-12-17T02:34:25 < mawk> so I can set it to disabled
2019-12-17T02:34:32 < mawk> because I have someting to do
2019-12-17T02:34:51 < catphish> tcth: i am in bed
2019-12-17T02:35:11 < tcth> tell me more
2019-12-17T02:35:26 < mawk> is it really doing that tho BrainDamage ? I don't know who that chip is protecting, since I cannot access it myself and configure it
2019-12-17T02:36:05 < mawk> it's securing NSA access to my porn stash, that's all the security it's doing
2019-12-17T02:36:10 < mawk> so I disable it
2019-12-17T02:36:36 < catphish> tcth: i'm 32, my dayjob is software, i am a cat lover and i love to run
2019-12-17T02:36:41 < mawk> on a more serious note tho with that method you can enable unsupported hw on your laptop
2019-12-17T02:36:54 < mawk> AHCI, nVME, intel VT, whatever
2019-12-17T02:36:59 < mawk> I'll write a guide
2019-12-17T02:37:04 < tcth> catphish, you sound like my girlfriend
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2019-12-17T02:37:23 < mawk> enjoy being a power of two years old catphish
2019-12-17T02:37:31 < tcth> stop nerding
2019-12-17T02:37:40 < catphish> 1) https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sP4NMoJcFd4 2) it's 100% true, can't hug every cat :(
2019-12-17T02:37:55 < BrainDamage> mawk: it supervises all the security, including remote access, drm, etc
2019-12-17T02:38:15 < mawk> on enterprise machines sure
2019-12-17T02:38:15 < tcth> drm... fuck drm BrainDamage
2019-12-17T02:38:17 < catphish> there's literally benefit to being 2^5 years old
2019-12-17T02:38:26 < mawk> you have remote access and everything
2019-12-17T02:38:28 < BrainDamage> yes, it's a pile of shit that it exists
2019-12-17T02:38:36 < mawk> but not on a consumer pc like mine
2019-12-17T02:38:39 < tcth> BrainDamage, I need to hear more rage from you
2019-12-17T02:38:39 < mawk> it's enabled for no reason
2019-12-17T02:38:56 < BrainDamage> it's enabled in every pc since 10 years
2019-12-17T02:39:07 < BrainDamage> tcth: I'm not really the person for rage
2019-12-17T02:39:10 < mawk> maybe some power management stuff have been delegated from the SMM to the ME
2019-12-17T02:39:16 < mawk> we will see if my laptop breaks
2019-12-17T02:39:35 < catphish> BrainDamage: talking about intel management thingemy?
2019-12-17T02:39:37 < mawk> but I'm disabling it gently anyway, not raping it by removing all its code like the other methods
2019-12-17T02:39:57 < mawk> just toggling that nice undocumented bit courtesy of the NSA which agreed to ME for other's pc but not theirs
2019-12-17T02:40:00 < catphish> BrainDamage: that actually seems really useful but i have no ides how to use it
2019-12-17T02:40:05 < mawk> called HAP/AltMeDisable
2019-12-17T02:40:15 < catphish> "ME", that the one
2019-12-17T02:40:24 < mawk> you can't use it on consumer pc
2019-12-17T02:40:41 < mawk> on enterprise thing you press ctrl+p at boot and you have a nice UI iLO style
2019-12-17T02:40:41 < catphish> mawk: thought it was in pretty much all intel chipsets
2019-12-17T02:40:52 < mawk> advance management technology, AMT
2019-12-17T02:40:56 < mawk> yes indeed it's everywhere
2019-12-17T02:41:09 < mawk> just that it's not configurable
2019-12-17T02:41:17 < mawk> just being enabled 24/7 without supervision
2019-12-17T02:41:21 < catphish> so what can it do?
2019-12-17T02:41:35 < mawk> talk to the network, receive remote commands
2019-12-17T02:41:36 < BrainDamage> give remote access including remote provisioning
2019-12-17T02:41:40 < catphish> and can linux has software to control it?
2019-12-17T02:41:43 < BrainDamage> no
2019-12-17T02:41:48 < BrainDamage> it's a black box
2019-12-17T02:41:51 < mawk> ME is on a PCI bus
2019-12-17T02:41:51 < catphish> so what's the point?
2019-12-17T02:42:01 < BrainDamage> to use it you need to talk to intel
2019-12-17T02:42:02 < mawk> but the commands are limited
2019-12-17T02:42:16 < mawk> computrace could be one use
2019-12-17T02:42:26 < mawk> but it's a bit light to justify ME
2019-12-17T02:43:02 < catphish> i read something about KVMoIP style control
2019-12-17T02:43:27 < catphish> seems that would be a big selling point, but i don't understand why it's so hard to use
2019-12-17T02:43:58 < catphish> or hardware crypto, also cool
2019-12-17T02:46:02 < BrainDamage> the TPM already offers hw crypto
2019-12-17T02:48:10 < catphish> i may be confusing the two
2019-12-17T02:48:45 < catphish> although clearly different functionality
2019-12-17T02:50:23 < BrainDamage> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Intel_Management_Engine#Modules
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2019-12-17T03:08:15 < mawk> IME is not usable on consumer pc anyway
2019-12-17T03:08:27 < mawk> all of this is for 2000€ dell latitude or whatever
2019-12-17T03:08:56 < mawk> I need a way to edit UEFI variable stores, I don't understand where they are to begin with
2019-12-17T03:09:04 < mawk> I found some in flash but also in NVRAM
2019-12-17T03:09:09 < mawk> why are they duplicated
2019-12-17T03:09:24 < mawk> maybe the one in flash is a set of default values when the backup battery is replaced
2019-12-17T03:33:01 < englishman> Thorn: did I miss it
2019-12-17T03:35:37 < englishman> ah I did
2019-12-17T03:35:45 < englishman> and it was a complete success
2019-12-17T03:40:57 < Ultrasauce> one of these days we'll get a good explosion
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2019-12-17T03:51:45 < rajkosto> isnt using a usb3 hub better than an "usb3 active extender"
2019-12-17T03:51:53 < rajkosto> why do these devices even exist and are more expensive than usb3 hubs
2019-12-17T04:10:31 < englishman> probably because they are more of a niche product
2019-12-17T04:10:40 < englishman> that contains the same hardware, plus two cables
2019-12-17T04:16:54 < dongs> usb3 active extender is not a hub
2019-12-17T04:17:13 < dongs> it has cable equalizer/driver and thats not same thing as a hub
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2019-12-17T04:32:55 < aandrew> correct
2019-12-17T04:33:18 < aandrew> basically a pre-emphasis circuit designed to pre-do what the cable is gonna do to the signal
2019-12-17T04:34:34 < rajkosto> so they should be cheaper
2019-12-17T04:34:42 < dongs> no
2019-12-17T04:34:44 < rajkosto> ive seen teardowns of the cables and they just use a usb3 hub chip tho
2019-12-17T04:34:57 < aandrew> rajkosto: maybe the cheap ones
2019-12-17T04:35:12 < aandrew> a simple retiming/redriving will help but it's not the same
2019-12-17T04:35:36 < aandrew> http://www.ti.com/lit/ds/symlink/tusb501-q1.pdf for example
2019-12-17T04:35:40 < rajkosto> doesnt usb3 already "train" for preemphasis in both ends ?
2019-12-17T04:35:49 < rajkosto> or is that only displayport
2019-12-17T04:35:50 < aandrew> rajkosto: to a certain extent
2019-12-17T04:36:01 < aandrew> if you want to drive it longer then you're gonna be out of spec, these devices help
2019-12-17T04:36:15 < rajkosto> a hub every 5 meters should do ok though
2019-12-17T04:36:24 < aandrew> sure
2019-12-17T04:39:23 < rajkosto> https://images.sshnuke.net/2019-12-17_03-39-12_Wd6jGKARB.png who would ever do this
2019-12-17T04:41:52 < aandrew> hahaha
2019-12-17T04:42:07 < aandrew> that osunds like one of those idiotic warnigns like "do not sleep while straightening hair"
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2019-12-17T05:52:33 < dongs> https://www.hackster.io/news/building-an-arduino-based-ssd-cf2007228827 what the actual fuck
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2019-12-17T05:57:49 < rajkosto> not an ssd
2019-12-17T06:19:57 < dongs> not even anything USEFUL
2019-12-17T06:20:33 < dongs> 80 cents buys you a fucking 2 megaBYTES SPI flash
2019-12-17T06:20:53 < dongs> the fuck is he gonna log 2k of shit on raid0'd I2C eeproms
2019-12-17T06:21:14 < rajkosto> cuz muh 8bit microcontrollers
2019-12-17T06:21:17 < rajkosto> with uart over usb
2019-12-17T06:21:33 < dongs> he didnt mount USB socket I guess the idiot fucked the footprint or pinout
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2019-12-17T06:50:51 < aandrew> lol @ "a common problem"
2019-12-17T06:51:21 < aandrew> how the fuck do you find this stuff
2019-12-17T06:52:37 < aandrew> RAIIICs
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2019-12-17T07:25:19 < fenugrec> "sd has slow access times" => pipe data over uart link instead. Sounds reasonable
2019-12-17T07:28:11 < dongs> aandrew: fucking google suggested this "article" to me this morning
2019-12-17T07:28:27 < dongs> fucking military-grade autism
2019-12-17T07:29:32 < fenugrec> he actually put in a lot of effort in that project and page. What a waste
2019-12-17T07:35:35 < aandrew> yeah he could have done a UART-to-SD bridge and been way, way ahead
2019-12-17T07:37:15 < dongs> why stop there? just do SATA to UART
2019-12-17T07:37:39 < dongs> do any of those sata>usb bridges allow connceting at USB-FS speesd?
2019-12-17T07:37:46 < dongs> i guess there's no retarduino with USB-FS
2019-12-17T07:37:51 < dongs> only the bitbanged LS shit
2019-12-17T07:41:18 < dongs> https://www.e-devices.ricoh.co.jp/en/products/power/dcdc/rp604/rp604-ea.pdf this is kinda neat but not worth $2
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2019-12-17T08:51:35 < aandrew> dongs: what's neat about it? looks like any modern dc/dc
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2019-12-17T09:53:11 < dongs> aandrew: iq
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2019-12-17T10:40:19 < qyx> what eeprom ssd
2019-12-17T10:44:40 < dongs> ok negros and shithub expert
2019-12-17T10:44:46 < dongs> i have a commit in 2018
2019-12-17T10:44:47 < dongs> removing stuff
2019-12-17T10:44:53 < dongs> in 3 files
2019-12-17T10:44:57 < dongs> i want to reverse it
2019-12-17T10:45:12 < dongs> i know i can just copypaste what i removed and make a new one
2019-12-17T10:45:18 < dongs> but how do I make it reference the 2018 one instead
2019-12-17T10:50:44 < dongs> nvm, 'reverse hunk' in sorestree worked
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2019-12-17T11:06:27 < kakipro> have you ever verbally assaulted anyone dongs?
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2019-12-17T11:19:42 < dongs> https://www.digikey.com/eewiki/display/MentorGraphicsDocumentation/PADS+Maker+Layout lol i didnt know this was a thing
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2019-12-17T11:22:43 < kakipro> is that pads or something gay?
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2019-12-17T11:25:29 < kakipro> looks like pads
2019-12-17T11:25:44 < kakipro> maybe different licence model
2019-12-17T11:27:02 < Thorn> https://www.cnx-software.com/2019/12/16/openwifi-is-an-open-source-linux-wifi-stack-running-on-fpga-hardware/
2019-12-17T11:28:09 < dongs> its pads, but pads is fucking gay
2019-12-17T11:29:00 < kakipro> now it has trendy name too
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2019-12-17T11:32:08 < kakipro> better than kicad though?
2019-12-17T11:33:01 < kakipro> if there was kikecad or pads you would choose pads every time?
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2019-12-17T12:42:27 < kakipro> oh well
2019-12-17T12:42:35 < kakipro> 1 point for kikecad there
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2019-12-17T13:05:27 < englishman> lol reverse hunk
2019-12-17T13:05:32 < englishman> fucking git
2019-12-17T13:09:52 < karlp> jsut "git revert " on the cli, no idea why they felt the need to change names of it in his tooling.
2019-12-17T13:11:40 < zyp> because the operation is not the same, reverse hunk probably just restores the contents of a single hunk, reverting a commit makes a whole new commit that undoes the entire original commit
2019-12-17T13:21:05 < qyx> something like reverse cherrypick?
2019-12-17T13:21:22 < qyx> no.
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2019-12-17T13:44:17 < karlp> well, dongs said he took a change that affected three files. I guess the ui might have had a "reverse hunk" option on each diff chunk one by one....
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2019-12-17T14:52:11 < dongs> yeah thats waht I did
2019-12-17T14:52:18 < dongs> there was also unrelated shit in that commit that I didnt wanna revert
2019-12-17T14:52:24 < dongs> anyway the idea was not to have to copypaste code and that was enough
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2019-12-17T15:13:12 < tcth> dongs, tell me a sad story
2019-12-17T15:15:35 < dongs> lunix trying to be on desktop for last 2 decdes
2019-12-17T15:15:39 < dongs> is a pretty sad story
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2019-12-17T15:16:46 < tcth> lol
2019-12-17T15:16:52 < tcth> dongs never disappoints
2019-12-17T15:28:27 < Cracki> tuxracer : mariokart = ? : doom
2019-12-17T15:29:11 < Cracki> penguin slapping zombie processes with <º))))><
2019-12-17T15:30:39 < dongs> https://datasheet.lcsc.com/szlcsc/1811151523_Jiangsu-Huaneng-Elec-MLT-5020_C94598.pdf nice
2019-12-17T15:32:11 < Cracki> cute
2019-12-17T15:32:42 < dongs> there's a 4x4 version too but that one is nonstock
2019-12-17T15:33:51 < Cracki> i see +POLARITY and -... but the third one has no label. is that nc/mechanical?
2019-12-17T15:33:57 < dongs> NC i guess yeah
2019-12-17T15:35:25 < Cracki> 3 bucks / 10 pc on aliex, with the 4-corner version
2019-12-17T15:35:30 < Cracki> looks a little gimpy
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2019-12-17T15:35:46 < Cracki> like they bumped the corners
2019-12-17T15:35:51 < dongs> whats a 4 corner version
2019-12-17T15:36:11 < dongs> oh waht the fuck..
2019-12-17T15:36:14 < dongs> there's same part# with only 2 pads
2019-12-17T15:36:14 < dongs> lols
2019-12-17T15:36:23 < Thorn> nice little breakout https://www.aliexpress.com/item/32881844466.html
2019-12-17T15:36:58 < Cracki> dat price
2019-12-17T15:37:05 < Cracki> 999 available
2019-12-17T15:37:07 < kakipr0> nice price
2019-12-17T15:38:03 < Cracki> ah, aliex search gave me MLT 8530... 5020 in description
2019-12-17T15:38:14 < kakipr0> my mouse has stopped responding
2019-12-17T15:38:32 < Cracki> usb hub/controller striking?
2019-12-17T15:38:37 < dongs> https://www.aliexpress.com/item/32458823676.html
2019-12-17T15:38:48 < kakipr0> I removed a big candle it had been eating and turning into pile of shit
2019-12-17T15:39:00 < kakipr0> now I saw it just standing there
2019-12-17T15:39:17 < Cracki> uh, that kinda mouse?
2019-12-17T15:39:30 < kakipr0> I was able to go right next to it and it stood there defeated
2019-12-17T15:39:49 < Cracki> defeated by a candle
2019-12-17T15:40:00 < kakipr0> probably that too
2019-12-17T15:40:12 < kakipr0> I didn't know it was edible
2019-12-17T15:40:35 < Cracki> ah, that ML part number is xxyy, xx length of side, yy height
2019-12-17T15:40:54 < Cracki> it's not. wax doesn't do anything unless you're a flame.
2019-12-17T15:41:15 < Cracki> passes through. candle shit.
2019-12-17T15:41:37 < kakipr0> it's made of animal fats
2019-12-17T15:41:50 < Cracki> ah then perhaps
2019-12-17T15:42:00 < Cracki> paraffin isn't digestible but interwebs say beeswax is
2019-12-17T15:42:58 < Cracki> >Beeswax has mild anti-swelling (anti-inflammatory) effects. There is also some evidence that it might help protect the stomach.
2019-12-17T15:42:59 < kakipr0> how about stearin?
2019-12-17T15:43:04 < Cracki> maybe mouse is sick and trying to selfmedicate
2019-12-17T15:43:10 < karlp> that's just paraffin
2019-12-17T15:43:43 < Cracki> >As medicine, beeswax is used for lowering cholesterol and for relieving pain. It is also used for swelling (inflammation), ulcers, diarrhea, and hiccups.
2019-12-17T15:43:57 < kakipr0> yes bee stuff is good for you
2019-12-17T15:45:35 < Thorn> got hiccups? drink some hot wax
2019-12-17T15:45:46 < Thorn> is that what they meant
2019-12-17T15:46:46 < dongs> altidumb doesnt have boolean ops on 3D objhects right
2019-12-17T15:47:00 < dongs> if i wanna poke a hole in a extruded 3D thing with a cylinder or another square
2019-12-17T15:47:28 < kakipr0> wtf
2019-12-17T15:47:38 < kakipr0> kicad doesn't have boolean ops for anything
2019-12-17T15:47:52 < tcth> then add it
2019-12-17T15:47:53 < dongs> well altium does for regions
2019-12-17T15:47:58 < tcth> welcome to FOSS
2019-12-17T15:48:14 < kakipr0> are you trying to use altidumb as 3d cad?
2019-12-17T15:48:17 < dongs> yes
2019-12-17T15:48:23 < kakipr0> wtf
2019-12-17T15:48:31 < kakipr0> is that a thing?
2019-12-17T15:49:07 < zyp> since when can you do 3d cad in altium?
2019-12-17T15:49:39 < dongs> uh since a while?
2019-12-17T15:50:12 < tcth> dongs, I guess the folks talk about CAD construction stuff.
2019-12-17T15:50:28 < tcth> not just parts modeling / assemblies / multi-board stuff / housings
2019-12-17T15:50:30 < dongs> https://i.imgur.com/tPdU4z7.png
2019-12-17T15:50:32 < dongs> i made this kinda shit
2019-12-17T15:50:35 < tcth> yes that
2019-12-17T15:56:28 < kakipr0> what does it represent dongs?
2019-12-17T15:59:02 < dongs> side actuated switch
2019-12-17T15:59:47 < kakipr0> indeed
2019-12-17T16:00:40 < kakipr0> kinda nice that you don't need to freecad the part first and then export import it
2019-12-17T16:05:03 < tcth> I need to check out freecad again. last time I looked at it was like 5 to 7 years ago and back then it was a... let´s say daunting experience for any kind of productive work.
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2019-12-17T16:18:16 < kakipr0> yes
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2019-12-17T16:29:32 < karlp> isn't that true of any cad package?
2019-12-17T16:30:47 < dongs> https://i.imgur.com/tdzzirr.png motherfucker
2019-12-17T16:31:11 < dongs> who the fuck draws this kinda shit
2019-12-17T16:31:14 < dongs> fucking retards
2019-12-17T16:33:31 < Mangy_Dog> reasonable enough to follow
2019-12-17T16:33:36 < dongs> yeah>?
2019-12-17T16:33:48 < dongs> then tell me xy dimensions of the pads or teh center epad
2019-12-17T16:34:33 < zyp> it's incomplete
2019-12-17T16:34:49 < zyp> pads are 0.25xwat
2019-12-17T16:34:49 < dongs> no shit
2019-12-17T16:34:52 < dongs> yes
2019-12-17T16:34:55 < Mangy_Dog> the pads are 0.25mm by
2019-12-17T16:34:57 < dongs> and epad is watxwat
2019-12-17T16:34:59 < Mangy_Dog> ok y is missing
2019-12-17T16:35:21 < zyp> center pad is 3.3 - 2(wat + 0.25)
2019-12-17T16:35:27 < dongs> wonderful
2019-12-17T16:36:02 < Mangy_Dog> ok yes theres not enough info in that diagram
2019-12-17T16:36:09 < zyp> center pad looks like 1.8x1.8
2019-12-17T16:37:16 < Mangy_Dog> i men
2019-12-17T16:37:18 < Mangy_Dog> mean
2019-12-17T16:37:26 < Mangy_Dog> there probably is enoug information to work it out
2019-12-17T16:37:27 < Mangy_Dog> but
2019-12-17T16:37:33 < zyp> yes
2019-12-17T16:37:35 < zyp> it's shit
2019-12-17T16:37:35 < Mangy_Dog> fuck why didnt they just simplfy it
2019-12-17T16:38:45 < dongs> < dongs> fucking retards
2019-12-17T16:38:52 < dongs> i summarized the "why" earleir
2019-12-17T16:38:57 < Mangy_Dog> pitch x 3 + pad with = centre pad
2019-12-17T16:39:03 < Mangy_Dog> its ok
2019-12-17T16:39:04 < Mangy_Dog> thats fiar
2019-12-17T16:39:15 < zyp> Mangy_Dog, yeah, that's how I figured
2019-12-17T16:39:19 < dongs> no if you zoom in teh drawing the center pad is actually a bit wider than outside pads
2019-12-17T16:39:20 < Mangy_Dog> I had to look at it more closely to realise how much is missing
2019-12-17T16:39:22 < dongs> prolly by like 0.1mm oor so
2019-12-17T16:39:57 < dongs> https://i.imgur.com/dCCczhb.png
2019-12-17T16:40:08 < Mangy_Dog> id ignore that
2019-12-17T16:40:12 < dongs> for sure
2019-12-17T16:41:17 < Mangy_Dog> anyway Y for pad would be 3.3 - centre pad calc - .5
2019-12-17T16:42:27 < Mangy_Dog> sooooo
2019-12-17T16:42:39 < Mangy_Dog> 0.25x1.05
2019-12-17T16:42:51 < Mangy_Dog> which actually doesnt look right
2019-12-17T16:43:03 < Mangy_Dog> oh
2019-12-17T16:43:15 < Mangy_Dog> /2
2019-12-17T16:43:37 < Mangy_Dog> 0.25 x 0.525
2019-12-17T16:43:44 < dongs> right
2019-12-17T16:43:49 < Mangy_Dog> fuckign stupid
2019-12-17T16:43:52 < Mangy_Dog> youre right
2019-12-17T16:43:53 < Mangy_Dog> :D
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2019-12-17T17:07:01 < Thorn> cunts https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o3SZm6p2YU8
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2019-12-17T17:11:32 < dongs> what was on it
2019-12-17T17:12:39 < Thorn> driving with lights & siren + commentary on what he was doing and why and how others were reacting
2019-12-17T17:13:25 < kakipr0> what is this rant
2019-12-17T17:13:32 < kakipr0> it's endless
2019-12-17T17:13:48 < kakipr0> I watched whole 10second it never ends
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2019-12-17T17:17:22 < doomba> but people said the COPPA stuff wasn't going to affect smaller youtube creators?
2019-12-17T17:17:34 < doomba> oh well
2019-12-17T17:17:40 < doomba> there's still cat videos and unboxing videos
2019-12-17T17:17:50 < doomba> and Explaining Computers
2019-12-17T17:19:07 < dongs> Thorn: i am trying to look for the raw panel of 128x32 0.91 oled shit
2019-12-17T17:19:11 < dongs> but i can only find fucking breakouts
2019-12-17T17:19:15 < dongs> does an actual panel exist
2019-12-17T17:19:19 < dongs> i bet it costs more than the breakout...
2019-12-17T17:19:55 < kakipr0> why are you looking for that shit?
2019-12-17T17:20:15 < thardin> "websites that collect information from children under 13" sounds like every website on the planet
2019-12-17T17:21:31 < doomba> dongs: yes the panels exist but you have to look very carefully. the ones i bought have a totally different pin-out that was almost impossible to find a datasheet for
2019-12-17T17:21:37 < Thorn> dongs: I've got tft displays in that size, not sure about oled
2019-12-17T17:22:11 < doomba> like i don't even know wtf pinout these things are
2019-12-17T17:22:26 < dongs> heh
2019-12-17T17:22:28 < doomba> had the same number of pins as what i _thought_ it was, so i went with that, and blew the fucker up
2019-12-17T17:22:33 < dongs> fucking modules are like $1.3
2019-12-17T17:22:39 < dongs> raw panels i can see are like $2.x
2019-12-17T17:22:42 < dongs> what teh fuck
2019-12-17T17:22:48 < doomba> yea it's annoying
2019-12-17T17:22:50 < dongs> https://www.aliexpress.com/item/1875129448.html
2019-12-17T17:22:59 < dongs> fucking MAKE:Rs
2019-12-17T17:23:03 < dongs> ruining shit for everyone
2019-12-17T17:23:11 < doomba> forrealz
2019-12-17T17:23:22 < doomba> mind you these oleds came out of some random mp3 player or something
2019-12-17T17:23:36 < dongs> https://www.aliexpress.com/item/4000396042490.html
2019-12-17T17:25:06 < Thorn> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=btdPEjih1cg
2019-12-17T17:25:31 < dongs> nice, my ctrl+w game is still good
2019-12-17T17:25:40 < dongs> also fuck you thorn
2019-12-17T17:28:15 < doomba> https://postimg.cc/Mfmb17Nt
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2019-12-17T17:28:30 < doomba> it's a mystery
2019-12-17T17:28:36 < dongs> thats the 0.96" oled
2019-12-17T17:28:39 < dongs> those are standard, no?
2019-12-17T17:28:43 < dongs> thats 128x64 or whaetver
2019-12-17T17:28:43 < doomba> not these ones
2019-12-17T17:28:48 < dongs> haha
2019-12-17T17:28:49 < dongs> nice.
2019-12-17T17:29:00 < doomba> i have no fucking clue what these ones are
2019-12-17T17:29:31 < dongs> https://i.imgur.com/pFc4K8t.jpg this is what i made with that thing
2019-12-17T17:29:36 < doomba> it came from "GEEKCREIT" on banggood
2019-12-17T17:29:47 < dongs> i bought random shit from some HK company and then chinagirl got me more of same, they were all correct pinout
2019-12-17T17:29:47 < doomba> they just make up random names that sound like "maker" and "geek"
2019-12-17T17:30:07 < doomba> shitty flasher v1.1
2019-12-17T17:30:25 < doomba> which mech is that?
2019-12-17T17:30:35 < dongs> thats teh standard 0.96" oled
2019-12-17T17:30:45 < doomba> no the keyboard
2019-12-17T17:31:13 < dongs> oh
2019-12-17T17:31:17 < dongs> uh code or someshit.
2019-12-17T17:31:20 < dongs> just trash.
2019-12-17T17:31:48 < doomba> yea i can't find any decent 60%ers that are customizable/open source firmware enough for my tastes
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2019-12-17T17:31:58 < dongs> UG-2864HSWEG01 is what i had for the oled
2019-12-17T17:32:04 < dongs> i dont give the slightest fuck about opensores firmware lmao
2019-12-17T17:32:10 < dongs> i need to press key and it needs to be on screen
2019-12-17T17:32:12 < dongs> thats all that matters
2019-12-17T17:32:17 < doomba> yeah not for me
2019-12-17T17:32:32 < doomba> i need to be able to easily mod the firmware because i'm a special needs kid when it comes to typing
2019-12-17T17:33:45 < fenugrec> ps/2 keyboard ftw
2019-12-17T17:38:39 < dongs> aids
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2019-12-17T17:47:12 < dongs> hooly shit
2019-12-17T17:47:38 < dongs> https://i.imgur.com/DxRcfzo.png
2019-12-17T17:48:49 < dongs> it just randomly ++/-- random pads in every component
2019-12-17T17:51:19 < Cracki> uh
2019-12-17T17:51:28 < dongs> yes
2019-12-17T17:51:30 < Cracki> pads in inner layers? am I misunderstanding?
2019-12-17T17:51:36 < Cracki> ze fuk
2019-12-17T17:51:58 < Cracki> i can understand pad + automatic via but that's not it
2019-12-17T17:52:09 < dongs> no this is just some visual/fuck knows what fuckup
2019-12-17T17:52:24 < dongs> it took random pads of parts and offset them by whatever value
2019-12-17T17:52:31 < dongs> of like a bunch of them
2019-12-17T17:52:31 < Cracki> I would hope it's "just" automatic rainbow colors on pads, not an indication of layer
2019-12-17T17:52:40 < dongs> oh, thats my net coloring stuff
2019-12-17T17:52:41 < Cracki> offset too? uh
2019-12-17T17:52:51 < dongs> i like to color vcc/etc different shit
2019-12-17T17:52:58 < Cracki> offset pads... diy components? do pads need to be nailed down somehow?
2019-12-17T17:53:10 < dongs> they're usually locked unless you unlock specifically
2019-12-17T17:53:25 < dongs> all i did was select a bunch of blocks in sch and move htem on pcb
2019-12-17T17:53:31 < dongs> to group into whatever shit prepare for alyout
2019-12-17T17:53:39 < dongs> when it moved, it fucked the pads on everything i dragged
2019-12-17T17:53:55 < Cracki> I can't imagine where unlocking the pads of a _component_ is useful... unless it's multiple components weirdly modeled
2019-12-17T17:54:14 < dongs> ive used it a couple times for some cosmetic changes
2019-12-17T17:54:22 < dongs> but yeah normallty you'd just fix the library component
2019-12-17T17:54:44 < karlp> altium is pr0 software?
2019-12-17T17:54:51 < dongs> proer than kikecad
2019-12-17T17:54:55 < dongs> they need to stop making it chaeper tho
2019-12-17T17:55:10 < dongs> i think with the latest 35-40% price drops the're not giving enough into actual fucking development
2019-12-17T17:55:14 < dongs> shit is buggy and retarded
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2019-12-17T17:58:46 < Cracki> PrtSc, tape to brick, mail to them
2019-12-17T17:59:45 < dongs> some of their bugtracker reports have been open for like a decade
2019-12-17T17:59:50 < dongs> and they're not fixing them
2019-12-17T18:00:07 < Cracki> out bugtracker using people are the same. they just leave shit until it dies.
2019-12-17T18:00:15 < Cracki> you have to send them bricks
2019-12-17T18:00:37 < Cracki> i get the impression that they don't want money
2019-12-17T18:01:35 < Cracki> organized crime. all the eda software shops agreed to make shit.
2019-12-17T18:02:40 < dongs> absolutely, especailly when it comes to trash like pads and orcad
2019-12-17T18:02:50 < dongs> its like someone is acutally paying them to make unusable shit
2019-12-17T18:04:59 < Cracki> feels like less heart attack to grab a random game engine and start a new eda program
2019-12-17T18:05:36 < Cracki> there are libraries for all the geometry stuff including intersection, convex hull, etc
2019-12-17T18:06:43 < dongs> or you could just add shit on top of shitty kikecad codebase
2019-12-17T18:06:51 < Cracki> nope
2019-12-17T18:07:20 < Cracki> I'd rather have two medium heaps of shit than a big one
2019-12-17T18:08:21 < kakinull> you should write to altidumb dongs
2019-12-17T18:08:38 < tcth> Cracki, so you can switch between the two always having an exuse not to deal with the other heap of shit?
2019-12-17T18:09:00 < Cracki> so the shit has a chance to air out and not build up any heat
2019-12-17T18:09:15 < Cracki> also not blocking the view as much :>
2019-12-17T18:09:41 < Cracki> also less of a tourist attraction
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2019-12-17T18:10:26 < tcth> I see - you actually put some thoughts into this
2019-12-17T18:10:41 < Cracki> people might start to worship the big heap, or climb its peak
2019-12-17T18:11:24 < Cracki> yes, I'm fond of "puns of notion"
2019-12-17T18:14:45 < tcth> can you do more?
2019-12-17T18:14:57 < Cracki> I'm all out of shit for now
2019-12-17T18:16:06 < tcth> can you tell me a sad story?
2019-12-17T18:16:07 < Cracki> ah! those MLT buzzers have one bent metal corner to signify orientation instead of a dot feature in the plastic
2019-12-17T18:17:03 < tcth> that´s not a sad story :<
2019-12-17T18:17:05 < Cracki> sad story... that's a tough one
2019-12-17T18:17:23 < dongs> solved teh designator auto-moving
2019-12-17T18:17:36 < dongs> for some reason it set default setting to "top left" for all desginators
2019-12-17T18:17:43 < dongs> selected them all and put back to 'manual'
2019-12-17T18:17:49 < dongs> and they remain in place even when rotating component
2019-12-17T18:18:17 < Cracki> sad story of the day: apparently old people can't feel ambient temperature or their own body temp anymore. it was unusually warm today and an old grandma was close to collapsing at the grocery store. she wore her thick winter coat.
2019-12-17T18:18:48 < tcth> I am sure Laurenceb would have a snarky comment for this one
2019-12-17T18:19:34 < Cracki> oh _he_ isn't the king of snark around here. that title is viciously defended by other people :D
2019-12-17T18:20:11 < Cracki> (I should read unfiltered logs less often)
2019-12-17T18:20:27 < tcth> or not at all? :p
2019-12-17T18:20:30 < tcth> how do you find time for that?
2019-12-17T18:20:55 < Cracki> they're useful for grepping, e.g. whether dongs finally touched kicad or if those bugs _really_ come from a commercial eda package
2019-12-17T18:21:30 < tcth> well I worked with both KiCAD and Altium an extensive amount of time and I can assure you that I rather put up with the altium bugs than kicad
2019-12-17T18:21:38 < tcth> disclaimer: didn´t touch kicad in the past 18 months tho
2019-12-17T18:22:21 < Cracki> that endorsement meshes with the other data points I've collected so far
2019-12-17T18:22:45 < tcth> don´t forget that for someone like dongs PCB designing is the main activity/source of income. so the 10k you pay for altium every know and then is not that big of a problem
2019-12-17T18:22:54 < tcth> as long as it pays off compared to other solutions - as always.
2019-12-17T18:23:31 < Cracki> yes, money is time, and buying the program needs to save x time compared to alternatives
2019-12-17T18:23:34 < Cracki> and I'm sure it does
2019-12-17T18:24:02 < tcth> and I guess some pople just cracki it
2019-12-17T18:24:07 * tcth looks at Steffanx
2019-12-17T18:24:10 < tcth> (kidding)
2019-12-17T18:24:29 < Cracki> sharpie on photoresist :>
2019-12-17T18:24:51 < Cracki> nah I let boss do the eda, I do the firmware
2019-12-17T18:25:47 < Cracki> til: "scope month" is now "wave"
2019-12-17T18:25:51 < Cracki> and it was in march
2019-12-17T18:26:03 < Cracki> bookmark https://www.wavekeysight.com/en
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2019-12-17T18:26:36 < tcth> maybe you can give the telling a said story thing another go?
2019-12-17T18:26:43 < tcth> anything goes.
2019-12-17T18:26:48 < tcth> as long as it´s a sad story
2019-12-17T18:27:15 < doomba> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sCssyRYfYw8&t=15m50s
2019-12-17T18:27:26 < Cracki> there once was a proud people. they were erased. the end.
2019-12-17T18:27:51 < Cracki> gah my headphones... are still where I moved them
2019-12-17T18:28:24 < Cracki> <3 scandisk
2019-12-17T18:29:12 < tcth> doomba, what am I watching?
2019-12-17T18:29:24 < dongs> looks like people breaking the law
2019-12-17T18:29:55 < Cracki> they go urban exploring in a loony bin
2019-12-17T18:30:25 < tcth> dat rolling shutter tho
2019-12-17T18:30:27 < tcth> jesus
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2019-12-17T18:31:05 < tcth> LOL the ¨software update¨ thing coming up at the bottom right corner. Like nothing changed since 98
2019-12-17T18:31:14 < bitmask> damnit filament, why wont you go in the hole
2019-12-17T18:31:39 < Cracki> try a running start
2019-12-17T18:31:42 < tcth> bitmask, did you try to use some lube?
2019-12-17T18:33:44 < bitmask> I'm gonna have to take this extruder apart, it feels like something is stuck but its probably just misaligned
2019-12-17T18:33:59 < Cracki> pencil sharpener
2019-12-17T18:34:01 < bitmask> it takes forever to take it apart, like a whole 3 minutes
2019-12-17T18:34:05 < tcth> Cracki, +1
2019-12-17T18:34:19 < bitmask> but im not sure I even need to
2019-12-17T18:34:23 < Cracki> I doubt I still own one. it's all ball point around here.
2019-12-17T18:34:38 < BrainDamage> I use mechanical pencils a lot
2019-12-17T18:34:43 < BrainDamage> and pens for docs
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2019-12-17T18:36:16 < Cracki> my student council got a real letter yesterday. some high school students were looking for a certain apparatus for chemical analysis. they signed their letter in fountain pen. high school customarily uses fountain pen but I would have thought they'd switched to ball point by now.
2019-12-17T18:36:37 < Cracki> ye I have at least two mechanical pencils too but rarely use them anymore
2019-12-17T18:37:02 < Cracki> for woodworking; they're the only graphite utensils I have
2019-12-17T18:37:16 < tcth> woodworking: There´s finally a sad story!
2019-12-17T18:37:23 < tcth> sorry man, couldn´t resist - no offense :p
2019-12-17T18:37:26 < Cracki> work my wood baby
2019-12-17T18:37:34 < tcth> I am a metal dude - I totally hate working with wood
2019-12-17T18:37:45 < tcth> but also all my tools and everything are for metal working - not for wood working
2019-12-17T18:37:53 < tcth> which of course fucks the experience up even more
2019-12-17T18:39:07 < Cracki> the only welding experience I have is with a shit ass stick welder on quarter inch thick steel or something. bums me out to see people use mig welding for thin and precise stuff
2019-12-17T18:39:46 < tcth> I didn´t even think of welding :p
2019-12-17T18:40:13 < BrainDamage> welding wood would surely be frustrating
2019-12-17T18:40:17 < Cracki> more the subtractive type then?
2019-12-17T18:40:25 < Cracki> welding flesh is apparently possible
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2019-12-17T18:40:35 < Cracki> similar chemistry as gluing together meat
2019-12-17T18:41:05 < Cracki> (as is done to almost everything you can buy that isn't straight off the animal)
2019-12-17T18:42:16 < Cracki> like the difference between wooden board (natural), fiberboard (glued), and MDF (sausage)
2019-12-17T18:43:45 < tcth> lol, MDF = sausage
2019-12-17T18:43:49 < tcth> will keep that for next time
2019-12-17T18:45:50 < Cracki> s/fiberboard/OSB/
2019-12-17T18:53:31 < aandrew> dongs: wow
2019-12-17T19:02:24 < aandrew> er not dongs, doomba
2019-12-17T19:02:38 < aandrew> power still on after like 17y
2019-12-17T19:04:04 < karlp> hadn't finished racing tot he bottom on fan bearing quality, and all that...
2019-12-17T19:04:15 < karlp> "manufacturing optimizations incomplete"
2019-12-17T19:09:07 < aandrew> sigh
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2019-12-17T19:18:15 < aandrew> I've had FOUR different recruiters from the same company for four different jobs, all ask me the same questions and completely ignore my email responses where I clearly state my rate requirements and type of work
2019-12-17T19:18:26 < aandrew> time to block this fucking company
2019-12-17T19:23:21 < englishman> dongs: go to a real distro like winmate
2019-12-17T19:23:27 < englishman> they are like 80c
2019-12-17T19:24:13 < englishman> I have a local rep with samples and datasheets etc
2019-12-17T19:29:38 < Cracki> aandrew, were they trying to recruit you for webdev or some equally saturated market?
2019-12-17T19:31:10 < aandrew> Cracki: no, thye're a typcal scummy recruiter who doesn't pay any attention, either doesn't look at their internal system or has no internal system and thinks I'm going to work onsite for $60/hr
2019-12-17T19:31:17 < Cracki> last time I browsed linkedin for job offers, they were all proxied through headhunters. everyone posts the same text given from the company and they all remove the company name.
2019-12-17T19:31:26 < aandrew> yep that's typical
2019-12-17T19:31:33 < Cracki> *recruiter, headhunter implies targeting
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2019-12-17T19:32:09 < Cracki> at least at job fairs you get to mock the drones for having no clue how to attract talent
2019-12-17T19:32:45 < Cracki> but they're actually from the company
2019-12-17T19:32:53 < aandrew> BrainDamage: I have another grc question if you have time
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2019-12-17T21:30:52 < Cracki> I wonder... is there a NEED for vacuum cleaners to have this godawful high pitched sound? does any law of physics require the production of that noise in the course of creating a vacuum?
2019-12-17T21:32:06 < BrainDamage> aandrew: such as?
2019-12-17T21:33:13 < BrainDamage> Cracki: most of vacuum cleaners are induction motors and have to run on multiples of ac freq, the high speed is necessary to have high flow and high pressure differential
2019-12-17T21:33:35 < BrainDamage> in principle they could spin even faster and go past the audible range, but not sure
2019-12-17T21:33:50 < Cracki> ah, so it's because people are cheap and deaf already, and spending money would remove the need for such tradeoffs?
2019-12-17T21:33:51 < BrainDamage> it doesn't help also that the fan is placed near the exaust
2019-12-17T21:34:12 < aandrew> BrainDamage: https://imgur.com/a/htUD8YD is what I'm looking at
2019-12-17T21:34:34 < aandrew> top waveform is the complex (blue) qt time sink, and bottom waveform is the float (orange) qt time sink
2019-12-17T21:34:52 < aandrew> you can clearly see the i/q data is about 100us wide and repeats every 150us
2019-12-17T21:35:04 < aandrew> I'm using the complex to mag^2 to try to detect energy
2019-12-17T21:35:53 < aandrew> and if I zoom up on the packet and decrease the y range (zoom in vertically) I can see a nice "envelope" of power around each packet, but I'm also getting a much larger signal in the noise it seems
2019-12-17T21:37:11 < BrainDamage> so you want to increase the SNR?
2019-12-17T21:37:19 < BrainDamage> switch to a syncronous detector
2019-12-17T21:38:01 < BrainDamage> as in, it locks a pll to the signal, and multiplies the signal by the synced sine
2019-12-17T21:38:08 < BrainDamage> then integrate that
2019-12-17T21:38:19 < BrainDamage> it's still integration, but on a shape that matches the input
2019-12-17T21:38:40 < BrainDamage> this is also called a lock-in amplifer, except radio guys figured it out 100 years ago under another name
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2019-12-17T21:39:30 < aandrew> BrainDamage: so it's expected to see a lot of energy where there is no signal?
2019-12-17T21:40:13 < BrainDamage> well, tbh, yours is pretty high wrt snr
2019-12-17T21:40:38 < qyx> BrainDamage: what, I have not seen a single vacuum cleaner with induction motor
2019-12-17T21:40:40 < BrainDamage> sorry, pretty low
2019-12-17T21:40:52 < BrainDamage> qyx: here they are all induction
2019-12-17T21:41:01 < qyx> interesting
2019-12-17T21:41:09 < BrainDamage> at least the cheap ones
2019-12-17T21:41:10 < qyx> I have seen only with universal motors
2019-12-17T21:41:21 < BrainDamage> the non-cheap use universal
2019-12-17T21:41:26 < BrainDamage> and have digital control
2019-12-17T21:42:48 < BrainDamage> aandrew: there's a part that's not clear to me, the top left quadrature demod, the signal that goes into the integrator at the bottom, is a fork of the input?
2019-12-17T21:44:46 < aandrew> yes, I hate how grc does that
2019-12-17T21:46:39 < BrainDamage> aandrew: can you give me a spectrogram of the signal, after straight integration?
2019-12-17T21:55:43 < aandrew> BrainDamage: https://imgur.com/a/Zgzc2Fj
2019-12-17T21:55:44 < aandrew> sorry for the delay
2019-12-17T21:57:46 < aandrew> interesting that it's not quite centered
2019-12-17T21:58:12 < BrainDamage> that's normal, neither the transmitter nor the receiver have perfect oscillators
2019-12-17T21:58:24 < aandrew> I wouldn't have imagined either the nordic nor the limesdrmini would be that far off
2019-12-17T21:58:27 < BrainDamage> they'll be off by a fixed amount, and by another proportional to T
2019-12-17T21:58:43 < BrainDamage> typically in the order of 10 ppm or so
2019-12-17T21:59:20 < BrainDamage> 1ppm at 2.4Ghz is 2.4kHz
2019-12-17T21:59:25 < BrainDamage> and 10 is 24
2019-12-17T21:59:33 < BrainDamage> quite compatible with what you have there
2019-12-17T21:59:34 < aandrew> right, those gigas add up :-)
2019-12-17T22:00:22 < BrainDamage> now, your snr looks ok-ish, it's not great, but I can see there's at least 20dB or so
2019-12-17T22:00:41 < BrainDamage> so the signal should be 10 times larger than the noise
2019-12-17T22:02:08 < aandrew> I can move the tx so it's closer
2019-12-17T22:02:42 < BrainDamage> nah, this should be sufficient
2019-12-17T22:02:54 < BrainDamage> it's the process here that's wrong, not the signal
2019-12-17T22:03:21 < aandrew> hm
2019-12-17T22:03:33 < aandrew> there hardly seems to be enough here to go wrong though
2019-12-17T22:03:41 < aandrew> especially if we're not counting ANYTHING going on in the demod "side"
2019-12-17T22:03:49 < aandrew> basically it's just sample -> integrate -> graph
2019-12-17T22:04:05 < BrainDamage> well, one does a quadrature demodulation
2019-12-17T22:04:16 < aandrew> we're not looking at that in the spectrum output though
2019-12-17T22:04:31 < BrainDamage> but it's the one that looks correct in the time sink
2019-12-17T22:04:56 < BrainDamage> while the ||^2 doesn't
2019-12-17T22:06:04 < BrainDamage> or, wait, I think I misunderstood the graph
2019-12-17T22:06:11 < BrainDamage> the ||^2 is ok in the top graph
2019-12-17T22:06:28 < BrainDamage> in the bottom it's straight integration, without demodulation at all, the big blue signal?
2019-12-17T22:06:35 < BrainDamage> if that's so, then that's normal
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2019-12-17T22:07:10 < aandrew> no
2019-12-17T22:07:26 < aandrew> top graph is no demodulation
2019-12-17T22:07:40 < aandrew> just I/Q and (you can't really see it, but green is mag^2
2019-12-17T22:07:52 < aandrew> bottom graph is demodulated (blue) and mag^2 (red)
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2019-12-17T22:08:37 < BrainDamage> then demodulated signal is wrong
2019-12-17T22:09:08 < aandrew> yes. I would have expected +v/0 or +v/-v in a more or less binary fashion
2019-12-17T22:09:30 < aandrew> playing the the gain of the quad demod just affects the magnitude of the output
2019-12-17T22:10:27 < BrainDamage> that's correct, that's a flat gain
2019-12-17T22:10:37 < BrainDamage> can't you use the gmsk demod?
2019-12-17T22:11:03 < BrainDamage> it spits out directly the bitstream
2019-12-17T22:11:06 < aandrew> I want to get there eventually
2019-12-17T22:11:09 < aandrew> trying to understand first
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2019-12-17T22:11:28 < BrainDamage> ok, in order to demodulate the signal, you need to lock a pll to the carrier
2019-12-17T22:11:40 < BrainDamage> so you need to detect the packets, and then lock an oscillator that
2019-12-17T22:11:56 < BrainDamage> that's what a detector does
2019-12-17T22:12:05 < aandrew> right. I think I have nice mag^2 now (grabbing pic)
2019-12-17T22:12:33 < BrainDamage> doing ||^2 is called an asyncronous detector
2019-12-17T22:13:08 < aandrew> right it's just a power detector is it not?
2019-12-17T22:13:22 < BrainDamage> yes
2019-12-17T22:15:01 < aandrew> https://imgur.com/a/Zgzc2Fj
2019-12-17T22:15:03 < aandrew> bottom image
2019-12-17T22:15:32 < BrainDamage> yep, that looks good
2019-12-17T22:17:18 < aandrew> trying to figur eout now why the graph has so few points. it's a 250kbps signal and I'm sampling at 1msps (after integration)
2019-12-17T22:17:43 < aandrew> I guess that is only 4 samples / symbol but if I reduce the integration it doesn't get bigger
2019-12-17T22:17:46 < aandrew> (wider)
2019-12-17T22:18:30 < BrainDamage> let's see for the quadrature demod
2019-12-17T22:18:31 < BrainDamage> https://wiki.gnuradio.org/index.php/Quadrature_Demod
2019-12-17T22:19:10 < aandrew> heh the wiki doesn't render math right
2019-12-17T22:19:22 < aandrew> oh
2019-12-17T22:19:26 < BrainDamage> yup, there's a link for the rendered version
2019-12-17T22:19:33 < aandrew> it's just doing last sample * sample
2019-12-17T22:19:37 < aandrew> so I need to integrate BEFORE it
2019-12-17T22:19:39 < BrainDamage> yup
2019-12-17T22:20:06 < BrainDamage> otherwise you'd only demod noise
2019-12-17T22:20:55 < aandrew> hm, that doesn't seem to affect the graph any differently
2019-12-17T22:21:35 < aandrew> lol I divided by zero
2019-12-17T22:22:04 < Steffanx> aandrew: you made me browse imgur. then i found this: https://imgur.com/gallery/ClXEFpW
2019-12-17T22:22:20 < aandrew> lol
2019-12-17T22:22:30 < aandrew> it's educational, honest
2019-12-17T22:23:53 < aandrew> aha
2019-12-17T22:23:58 < aandrew> it's the fucking qt grapher
2019-12-17T22:25:23 < aandrew> BrainDamage: https://imgur.com/a/Zgzc2Fj
2019-12-17T22:25:38 < aandrew> I think I should have stuck with the wx toolkit. it's buggy in other ways but at least I didn't question its output
2019-12-17T22:26:07 < BrainDamage> that looks ok
2019-12-17T22:26:11 < aandrew> yes
2019-12-17T22:26:20 < aandrew> I was struggling to understand the stupid line from zero graph
2019-12-17T22:26:20 < BrainDamage> there's some glitches outside the packets, but that's normal
2019-12-17T22:27:23 < aandrew> right that's understandable
2019-12-17T22:27:52 < aandrew> and the graph looks normalish too (the packets all look the same) which is what I am sending)
2019-12-17T22:28:19 < aandrew> trying to figure out what some of these objects do
2019-12-17T22:28:41 < aandrew> "frequency translating FIR filter" and "rational resampler" and such. there's lots of reading to do
2019-12-17T22:29:05 < BrainDamage> rational resampler is a resampler that can do only fractions
2019-12-17T22:29:11 < BrainDamage> so eg 1/64
2019-12-17T22:29:43 < aandrew> so in the example for the quad demod they show a rational resampler with inerpolation of 500 and decimation of 960
2019-12-17T22:29:58 < aandrew> so that's 500/960ths?
2019-12-17T22:30:09 < BrainDamage> yup
2019-12-17T22:31:00 < BrainDamage> a frequency xlating fir filter, is a combo of a frequency translator and a filter
2019-12-17T22:31:10 < BrainDamage> think of it like the tuner in your SDR
2019-12-17T22:31:22 < BrainDamage> it takes a portion of spectrum and shifts it to baseband
2019-12-17T22:31:37 < BrainDamage> this because the input there is some offset tuned audio signal
2019-12-17T22:31:46 < BrainDamage> like from a ham radio
2019-12-17T22:32:22 < aandrew> so if I tuned to 2750MHz I could use that to shift 20MHz over instead of just tuning to 2470?
2019-12-17T22:33:02 < BrainDamage> as long as it fits the bandwith: yes
2019-12-17T22:33:57 < aandrew> what's the point of using that rather than adjusting the source directly? for cases where you're reading from file or whewre the source doesn't like retuning on the fly?
2019-12-17T22:34:12 < BrainDamage> there's multiple reasons:
2019-12-17T22:34:22 < BrainDamage> the sdr often doesn't have uniform noise
2019-12-17T22:34:39 < BrainDamage> so you have a sweet spot where to put your signal for best detection
2019-12-17T22:34:54 < BrainDamage> another reason is if you want to receive multiple signals at once from the same spectrum
2019-12-17T22:35:32 < BrainDamage> sso you get multiple freq xlating, and then a decoder for each
2019-12-17T22:35:45 < karlp> how did plaidwalrus get 2.5k points in 5 hours
2019-12-17T22:36:25 < karlp> also, opening aandrews links over and over was confusing, as the images in the album had apparently changed :)
2019-12-17T22:37:14 < BrainDamage> another reason even more: tuning a radio takes time
2019-12-17T22:37:22 < BrainDamage> because the pll has to settle and lock
2019-12-17T22:37:35 < BrainDamage> for small changes, it's better to do it in software
2019-12-17T22:39:19 < aandrew> oh that that makes sense
2019-12-17T22:39:23 < aandrew> karlp: haha yes
2019-12-17T22:40:03 < aandrew> BrainDamage: that makes a LOT of sense
2019-12-17T22:44:59 < BrainDamage> also, I am in no way a gnuradio guru, most of my knowledge is generic signal processing
2019-12-17T22:45:22 < BrainDamage> but gnuradio is structured rather well in that sense that most of the blocks are straight implementation of the concepts
2019-12-17T22:45:23 < aandrew> right, I think that's why I understand what you're saying
2019-12-17T22:45:37 < aandrew> becuase the #gnuradio people don't talk normal, they talk gnuradio-ese it seems
2019-12-17T22:48:02 < Steffanx> haha
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2019-12-17T23:03:53 < jpa-> aandrew: maybe you need a downconverter between #gnuradio and yourself
2019-12-17T23:08:25 < aandrew> jpa-: :-)
2019-12-17T23:08:34 < aandrew> BrainDamage: https://imgur.com/a/CoavqCH looks better in wx gui (never EVER thought I'd say that)
2019-12-17T23:08:42 < aandrew> green is the mag^2
2019-12-17T23:08:56 < aandrew> (I've inverted it to try to see both the mag and signal easier)
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2019-12-17T23:25:54 < aandrew> oh fun, radians per sample
2019-12-17T23:27:35 < aandrew> ok, so 250kHz is 1/2*pi*250e3 is 6.34e-7 radians per second
2019-12-17T23:28:03 < aandrew> a million samples per second makes that 6.34e-13 radians per sample??
2019-12-17T23:28:15 < aandrew> I think that's going the wrong way
2019-12-17T23:28:40 < aandrew> yeah I went the wrong way
2019-12-17T23:29:18 < aandrew> yeah 79.58 rad/sec or 0.08 rad/sample
2019-12-17T23:29:21 < aandrew> that makes more sense
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2019-12-17T23:38:33 < Cracki> 1.57 Mrad/s :P
2019-12-17T23:38:58 < doomba> 1.57 MegaRad! it's way more l33t than k-rad!
2019-12-17T23:38:59 < Cracki> or 1.57 rad/sample
2019-12-17T23:39:47 < Cracki> aandrew, wtf r u calculating
2019-12-17T23:40:20 < Cracki> 250e3 [1/s] * 2*pi [rad]
2019-12-17T23:40:39 < BrainDamage> aandrew: https://qalculate.github.io/
2019-12-17T23:40:46 < BrainDamage> use a decent calculator
2019-12-17T23:40:58 < Cracki> fancy
2019-12-17T23:41:06 < BrainDamage> now that it has a windows port, there's no reason to not recommend it to everyone
2019-12-17T23:41:31 < aandrew> yeah I was just using a regular calc
2019-12-17T23:41:51 < aandrew> taking the samples and feeding a pll carrier tracker, its numbrs are all in rad/samp
2019-12-17T23:42:16 < aandrew> the frequency detecting pll is also good for detecting start of packet because the preamble can be detected that way and trigger on it
2019-12-17T23:49:22 < aandrew> https://imgur.com/a/4ADcswT blue = quad demod of pll tracking output, green = quad demod of signal pre-pll
2019-12-17T23:50:48 < Cracki> blue looks toothy
2019-12-17T23:54:32 < Cracki> also sawteeth seem to go both ways depending on where
2019-12-17T23:54:59 < Cracki> is it actually locked?
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2019-12-18T00:21:56 < aandrew> Cracki: I *think* (and could be very wrong) that those wiggles are the PLL trying to track what's not moving
2019-12-18T00:22:14 < aandrew> i.e. the string of 0s or 1s
2019-12-18T00:22:26 < Cracki> is it possible that this is a floating point artefact?
2019-12-18T00:22:40 < Cracki> any of those values "large"?
2019-12-18T00:24:48 < BrainDamage> it's likely a pulse swallowing irrational pll with too large bandwith
2019-12-18T00:31:26 < aandrew> yes reducing the bandwidth makes the ripples smaller
2019-12-18T00:31:32 < aandrew> what do you mean by "irrational" though?
2019-12-18T00:32:09 < BrainDamage> that the ratio of the internal divider of the pll is not a rational fraction
2019-12-18T00:32:22 < BrainDamage> there's a divide by 2^n aka counter
2019-12-18T00:32:37 < BrainDamage> followed by another counter which instead cancels one pulse
2019-12-18T00:32:46 < BrainDamage> hence pulse swallowing
2019-12-18T00:33:08 < BrainDamage> the result of the phase error increases over time until the pulse gets eaten and it resets to 0
2019-12-18T00:33:13 < BrainDamage> hence the sawtooth pattern
2019-12-18T00:33:25 < BrainDamage> the lowpass filter bandwith attenuates that and makes it smooth
2019-12-18T00:34:30 < BrainDamage> the advantage is that it's simple and can do arbitrary ratios
2019-12-18T00:34:39 < BrainDamage> including irrational ones
2019-12-18T00:35:36 < Cracki> any of those we might know? pi perhaps?
2019-12-18T00:36:00 < aandrew> oh like with fractional integer arithmetic almost
2019-12-18T00:38:23 < BrainDamage> Cracki: carriers are not fixed in time, they drift, etc
2019-12-18T00:38:43 < BrainDamage> so a pll which can only do fractions will end up skipping phases as the carrier drifts
2019-12-18T00:38:53 < Cracki> ic
2019-12-18T00:39:06 < Cracki> wasn't aware of such limitations, only the platonic ideal of PLL
2019-12-18T00:39:35 < BrainDamage> think of just doppler effect, or the oscillator warming up
2019-12-18T00:39:44 < BrainDamage> and you have slow moving carriers
2019-12-18T00:39:53 < BrainDamage> then there's other effects too
2019-12-18T00:40:43 < BrainDamage> generally irrational fraction plls handle more generic cases, but are inherently more complex and have their own quirks
2019-12-18T00:40:59 < BrainDamage> pulse swallowing always gives you the sawtooth, but you have control over it
2019-12-18T00:41:18 < BrainDamage> instead of a rational ratio where depending on the freq jump the sawtooth becomes arbitrarily large
2019-12-18T00:41:48 < BrainDamage> in a pulse swallowing instead the amplitude of the sawtooth depends on the loop bandwith and therefore the speed of which you can track a carrier
2019-12-18T00:42:45 < BrainDamage> then there's the whole control theory bullshit
2019-12-18T00:43:07 < BrainDamage> because it's a closed loop system, and the number of poles in the control loop will tell you the final error as the pll settles
2019-12-18T00:43:35 < BrainDamage> eg to track a constant freq, you need at least one pole, to track a ramp you need two, to track a parabula 3, etc ....
2019-12-18T00:43:43 < BrainDamage> ( steady state error )
2019-12-18T00:43:58 < BrainDamage> sorry for the info dump, I just realized I've been monologuing a bit ...
2019-12-18T00:44:15 < qyx> interesting read
2019-12-18T01:00:31 < jadew`> I'm often surprised to see how much stuff BrainDamage is closely familiar with
2019-12-18T01:02:09 < jadew`> he's spot on with the PLL divider, I implemented such a fractional divider core, but other than that, what are the scenarios in which you would be so involved with PLL design that you care about swallowed pulses?
2019-12-18T01:09:00 < Thorn> https://bunniefoo.com/bunnie/essential/essential-guide-shenzhen-web.pdf
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2019-12-18T01:10:48 < jadew`> the index looks promissing
2019-12-18T01:11:35 < Cracki> would be funny if they sold that right there and you get to use it as you buy it
2019-12-18T01:11:50 < Cracki> and when you're done the salesman greets you in english
2019-12-18T01:14:26 < jadew`> the only trick I found so far was to always take notes on from which shop each component was bought
2019-12-18T01:15:01 < jadew`> that way, if I buy the same thing from multiple sellers and one is better, I can then use that particular seller
2019-12-18T01:15:28 < jadew`> turns out it doesn't always work, but it's better than not knowing which one supplied the good whatever that is
2019-12-18T01:15:55 < Cracki> 电脑
2019-12-18T01:16:36 < jadew`> 有现货的
2019-12-18T01:17:01 < Cracki> 效特基
2019-12-18T01:17:27 < Thorn> smaller? bigger? thinner? taller? longer? shorter? heavier? lighter?
2019-12-18T01:17:43 < Thorn> sounds like daft punk
2019-12-18T01:18:15 < jadew`> the asian sellers I've been dealing with lately seem to speak flawless english
2019-12-18T01:19:00 < jadew`> I sometimes feel I'm the one that's difficult to understand
2019-12-18T01:21:10 < Cracki> 性偏好
2019-12-18T01:21:13 < Thorn> > In general, taxi drivers cannot speak or read English. Many also have bad eyesight
2019-12-18T01:21:24 < jadew`> lol
2019-12-18T01:22:42 < Cracki> google says "“xìng piān hào" is "fart sauce"... the book says it's 性偏好 which is sexual preference
2019-12-18T01:22:58 < Cracki> not sure what to believe anymore
2019-12-18T01:23:41 < Cracki> ah, google thinks that's vietnamese...
2019-12-18T01:36:54 < doomba> this cack sucking espasyncwebserver
2019-12-18T01:37:13 < qyx> so
2019-12-18T01:37:18 < doomba> now i gotta dig through years of unresolved issues to figure out why the fuck a less than 100 byte long json string gets cut off prematurely
2019-12-18T01:37:20 < qyx> is esp32-cam of any use?
2019-12-18T01:37:46 < qyx> are you using some pre-1990 web technology
2019-12-18T01:37:53 < doomba> yep
2019-12-18T01:38:12 < doomba> {"name":"1","zones":[{"name":"Pre-heat","exit":0,"target":0},{"name":"Soak","exit":0,"target":0},{"name":"Liquidus","exit�
2019-12-18T01:38:14 < doomba> ":0,"target":0},{"name":"Reflow","exit":0,"target":0}]}ncompleu�b�Q
2019-12-18T01:38:23 < doomba> looks stack overflowy
2019-12-18T01:38:42 < qyx> probably optimized for arduino
2019-12-18T01:42:25 < specing> ah, the wonders of C
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2019-12-18T01:58:48 < aandrew> Ayeah please continue monologuing. heh
2019-12-18T01:59:07 < aandrew> jadew`: damn, I bought that book last year
2019-12-18T01:59:40 < jadew`> aandrew, the shenzhen one?
2019-12-18T01:59:42 < aandrew> yeah
2019-12-18T02:03:21 < Cracki> 给我最便宜的
2019-12-18T02:08:13 < jadew`> any good movies lately?
2019-12-18T02:08:30 < jadew`> I have to route a couple of boards tonight and I want to watch something while doing it
2019-12-18T02:08:41 < Cracki> binged on expanse season 4 last weekend
2019-12-18T02:08:52 < Cracki> ah, that kind of movie
2019-12-18T02:09:42 < jadew`> oh, I thought that show was over
2019-12-18T02:09:46 < Cracki> nope
2019-12-18T02:09:49 < jadew`> I wonder how many seasons I'm behind
2019-12-18T02:10:02 < jadew`> it's the one with the miners, yes?
2019-12-18T02:10:05 < Cracki> netflix or something bought it, season 5 is coming
2019-12-18T02:10:11 < jadew`> and the SOS ship
2019-12-18T02:10:11 < Cracki> yes
2019-12-18T02:10:13 < Cracki> bleters
2019-12-18T02:10:17 < jadew`> yeah
2019-12-18T02:10:17 < Cracki> belters
2019-12-18T02:10:22 < Cracki> you sound like you're stuck in season 1
2019-12-18T02:10:36 < Cracki> bleaters
2019-12-18T02:10:44 < jadew`> I'll have to check it out
2019-12-18T02:10:59 < jadew`> anything on amazon prime? I'm paying for that subscription but I'm not getting anything in return
2019-12-18T02:11:01 < jadew`> not sure why
2019-12-18T02:11:10 < Cracki> no clue ARRR!
2019-12-18T02:11:17 < jadew`> oh, they have the expanse too
2019-12-18T02:11:18 < Cracki> some action? Death Wish, john wick movies maybe, ...
2019-12-18T02:11:56 < aandrew> jadew`: i have heard really good things about ford v ferrari
2019-12-18T02:12:56 < jadew`> added to watchlist
2019-12-18T02:13:08 < jadew`> Cracki, saw them both
2019-12-18T02:13:29 < Cracki> three john wick movies exist iirc
2019-12-18T02:13:36 < jadew`> yeah, saw them
2019-12-18T02:14:43 < jadew`> amazon recommends this: https://m.media-amazon.com/images/M/MV5BMjExMzcwMjU4OV5BMl5BanBnXkFtZTgwNzYzMjU2MTE@._V1_UY1200_CR95,0,630,1200_AL_.jpg
2019-12-18T02:15:11 < Cracki> you would like that
2019-12-18T02:15:23 < jadew`> I might, I'll give it a try
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2019-12-18T02:16:30 < Cracki> how about bouncy girls and good music: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCY7uhiFCrKd_hhXfVrtPWTg/videos?view=0&sort=p&flow=grid
2019-12-18T02:16:59 < jadew`> saw them all lol
2019-12-18T02:17:03 < Cracki> kek
2019-12-18T02:18:28 < Cracki> >Montezuma’s revenge
2019-12-18T02:18:36 < Cracki> a game exists
2019-12-18T02:19:35 < jadew`> barbarella starts promissing
2019-12-18T02:19:41 < jadew`> astronaut chick stripping
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2019-12-18T02:21:38 < jadew`> I think they had her in a bowl with fake walls filled with mercury
2019-12-18T02:24:33 < jadew`> yep, it was mercury
2019-12-18T02:25:05 < jadew`> 3:48, tittie
2019-12-18T02:25:44 < jadew`> full nudity afterwards :D
2019-12-18T02:25:55 < Cracki> you make this channel look like a bunch of women and homosexuals
2019-12-18T02:26:16 < jadew`> lol
2019-12-18T02:27:07 < jadew`> dialogue is gold lol
2019-12-18T02:27:28 < jadew`> so barbarella is naked and the president of earth contacts her on their video chat thingie
2019-12-18T02:27:41 < jadew`> they salute themselves and then barbarella goes: "let me slip something on"
2019-12-18T02:27:53 < jadew`> to which the president of earth answers: "don't trouble yourself!"
2019-12-18T02:28:26 < Cracki> :P
2019-12-18T02:32:24 < doomba> women and homosexuals? are you trying to say there's women on freenode?
2019-12-18T02:34:16 < jadew`> 95% of the people here are women, but they conceal this fact because of the harassment
2019-12-18T02:35:07 < leite> 100% correct
2019-12-18T02:37:05 < mawk> tcth: the bios hack worked
2019-12-18T02:37:47 < Cracki> more jumping https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g2NZ5y9kiMI
2019-12-18T02:39:35 -!- Netsplit *.net <-> *.split quits: srk, sync, Ultrasauce, Teeed
2019-12-18T02:39:44 -!- Netsplit over, joins: Ultrasauce
2019-12-18T02:39:57 -!- Netsplit over, joins: Teeed, sync
2019-12-18T02:40:07 -!- Netsplit over, joins: srk
2019-12-18T02:40:38 < mawk> http://i.imgur.com/j7E2H3g.jpg http://i.imgur.com/JZM5Dpo.jpg
2019-12-18T02:40:40 < mawk> ^ doomba
2019-12-18T02:41:42 < jadew`> ok, finished the movie
2019-12-18T02:41:44 < jadew`> it sucked
2019-12-18T02:42:57 < doomba> cool. When Disabled ME will be put into ME Temporarily Disabled Mode. Only Microsoft and NSA contractors will be able to access it.
2019-12-18T02:43:26 < jadew`> what's this ME thing?
2019-12-18T02:43:36 < leite> hi, u guys know if it is possible to make a 2x pwm signals with dead time using stm8s timers?
2019-12-18T02:47:13 < mawk> your salvation jadew`
2019-12-18T02:47:37 < mawk> there are references to AltDisableMode in the uefi code too doomba
2019-12-18T02:47:42 < mawk> and apparently it's not the same thing
2019-12-18T02:48:45 < Cracki> leite, do stm8 have reference manuals or are they atmel-style single document?
2019-12-18T02:48:59 < mawk> there is "ME ALT Disabled" which is HAP I guess, and "ME Temporarily Disabled" which is what I did doomba
2019-12-18T02:49:19 < mawk> and in the mode I did the ME is completely gone from the PCI bus, while AltMeDisable only puts it into a special state
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2019-12-18T02:52:10 < jadew`> mawk, why are you trying to hide from the government?
2019-12-18T02:52:22 < jadew`> (I just read about the ME)
2019-12-18T02:54:10 < doomba> https://imgur.com/gallery/RKljiqx
2019-12-18T02:54:14 < mawk> I just don't want foreign always-on coprocessors in my hardware
2019-12-18T02:55:42 < jadew`> mawk, it's just there for the administrator of the PC to do maintenance tasks and to keep an eye on your activity
2019-12-18T02:56:19 < Cracki> who *administrates* the PCs? hello.
2019-12-18T02:56:30 < jadew`> obviously not mawk lol
2019-12-18T02:57:15 < Cracki> who administrates the administrators
2019-12-18T02:57:29 < jadew`> someone at the NSA?
2019-12-18T02:57:41 < jadew`> maybe another AI
2019-12-18T02:57:52 < Cracki> if it were an AI I'd be less worried
2019-12-18T02:58:07 < jadew`> well, the AI reports to the human at NSA
2019-12-18T02:58:35 < Cracki> "all good he's definitely not gonna liberate his people"
2019-12-18T02:58:53 < jadew`> must be great having that much info
2019-12-18T02:59:04 < jadew`> you could buy and sell stock like a pro
2019-12-18T03:00:25 < Cracki> What are you trying to tell me? That I can trade stock? No, Neo. I'm trying to tell you that when you're ready, you won't have to.
2019-12-18T03:01:00 < jadew`> deep
2019-12-18T03:01:08 < Cracki> "fiat money"
2019-12-18T03:01:19 < Cracki> literally monopoly money
2019-12-18T03:01:29 < Cracki> in the sense of the tabletop game
2019-12-18T03:02:43 < Cracki> which reminds me I still have to make some time to play with bitcoin historical data and see how much that can be exploited
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2019-12-18T03:05:07 < jadew`> I wanted to do that too
2019-12-18T03:05:34 < jadew`> turns out there are lots of people doing it and lots of complex tools aiding them with that
2019-12-18T03:06:13 < Cracki> if they're business administration peeps, it amounts to linear fit and moving average
2019-12-18T03:07:27 < Cracki> can you imagine, people of math and physics believe there are three ohm's laws because they can't symbolically rearrange the equation to solve for what they need
2019-12-18T03:08:30 < Cracki> *outside of
2019-12-18T03:08:37 < mawk> jadew`: for enterprise pc sure
2019-12-18T03:08:44 < mawk> but I have a consumer pc, and ME is still there
2019-12-18T03:08:52 < mawk> I cannot manage it, I cannot do anything at all with it
2019-12-18T03:09:04 < mawk> but it's there, enabled all the time, even when my pc is off, with full access to the network
2019-12-18T03:09:04 < jadew`> Cracki, I don't think people outside of physics know what ohm's law is
2019-12-18T03:09:35 < jadew`> they've heard of it, once in college, then they quickly forgot it
2019-12-18T03:09:35 < mawk> so I want to nuke it
2019-12-18T03:09:35 < Cracki> they will when they have to stick needles into frog legs
2019-12-18T03:09:35 < upgrdman> wondering wtf my pushbutton debounce logic was intermittent and fucky... oh, i forgot to enable to weak pull-up resistors. heh.
2019-12-18T03:09:35 < leite> Cracki, they have chip datasheet and family manual
2019-12-18T03:09:44 < Cracki> datasheet for frog legs?
2019-12-18T03:10:01 < Cracki> wew shenzhen
2019-12-18T03:10:14 < Cracki> so grab whatever section describes your timers
2019-12-18T03:10:28 < Cracki> they might have appnotes for motor control you can use
2019-12-18T03:10:47 < Cracki> you said dead time but that's probably motor control or some other half-bridge deal
2019-12-18T03:11:42 < leite> yeah, half bridge for synchronous step down smps
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2019-12-18T03:13:29 < leite> I have found "General-purpose timer cookbook for STM32" and "STM32 cross-series timer overview" but nothing on stm8s
2019-12-18T03:14:30 < Cracki> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uclCXH1ZPWU
2019-12-18T03:14:37 < Cracki> says stm8s and complementary
2019-12-18T03:14:49 < Cracki> and a bunch of links to blogs
2019-12-18T03:15:45 < Cracki> http://embedded-lab.com/blog/starting-stm8-microcontrollers/21/
2019-12-18T03:15:50 < Cracki> dunno if that helps
2019-12-18T03:17:05 < leite> nice
2019-12-18T03:17:06 < Cracki> rm0016 for stm8s has paragraphs containing "complementary" and "deadtime"
2019-12-18T03:17:14 < Cracki> no clue what your situation is
2019-12-18T03:18:10 < qyx> mhm, having TDR, how does the!graph look like if the cable has unmatched impedance
2019-12-18T03:19:25 < leite> yeah, I have read rm0016 about deadtime, but I have no clue of how to translate it to code
2019-12-18T03:20:36 < Cracki> does stm8 have HAL?
2019-12-18T03:20:41 < Cracki> some stuff looked like it does
2019-12-18T03:21:12 < Cracki> either way, RM describes operation and lists registers and bits
2019-12-18T03:21:55 < leite> sure, I will try to come up with working simple examples and try TIM1
2019-12-18T03:24:08 < leite> Cracki, HAL, do u mean some functions that abstract the setup of registers and just works
2019-12-18T03:24:14 < Cracki> yes
2019-12-18T03:24:40 < Cracki> they have HAL for stm32, one for each series
2019-12-18T03:24:55 < leite> this is good, but I feel the need to try low level to understand how it works
2019-12-18T03:25:05 < Cracki> hal docs could be more accessible but they give you examples for a bunch of stuff
2019-12-18T03:25:40 < leite> maybe it will be useful to look at the output asm files to get what they are doing
2019-12-18T03:32:02 < Cracki> masochist
2019-12-18T03:32:12 < Cracki> it'll be useless.
2019-12-18T03:32:56 < Cracki> you may see a single register write
2019-12-18T03:33:10 < Cracki> (or not, depends)
2019-12-18T03:33:20 < Cracki> best to read RM and poke registers
2019-12-18T03:33:29 < leite> TIM1 have a bunch of register addresses
2019-12-18T03:34:06 < leite> yeah, I am kind cautious because my smt8s003 have 100x flash rewrite life
2019-12-18T03:34:27 < leite> I fell like I already write 50 times or more :D
2019-12-18T03:34:48 < leite> I need to buy more
2019-12-18T03:40:44 < dongs> ??
2019-12-18T03:41:01 < dongs> where do you see stm8 rated at only 1000 erase cycles?
2019-12-18T03:41:03 < qyx> how many?
2019-12-18T03:41:14 < qyx> he said 100
2019-12-18T03:41:17 < dongs> or that even
2019-12-18T03:41:19 < Cracki> no, 10
2019-12-18T03:41:30 < Cracki> 0.01
2019-12-18T03:41:48 < dongs> Program memory: 8 Kbyte Flash memory; data
2019-12-18T03:41:49 < dongs> retention 20 years at 55 °C after 100 cycles
2019-12-18T03:41:53 < dongs> Data memory: 128 bytes true data EEPROM;
2019-12-18T03:41:54 < dongs> endurance up to 100 k write/erase cycles
2019-12-18T03:41:58 < Cracki> even if it's rated that low, it can probably do 10x that
2019-12-18T03:42:05 < Cracki> 100k lol
2019-12-18T03:42:15 < dongs> well eeprom is 100k
2019-12-18T03:42:18 < dongs> main memory IS 100
2019-12-18T03:42:19 < dongs> weird.
2019-12-18T03:42:33 < dongs> its minimum tho so it'll likely be OK after 100 but not guaranteed
2019-12-18T03:42:52 < Cracki> they must be using 4-bit cells or something equally weak
2019-12-18T03:42:53 < aandrew> https://usercontent.irccloud-cdn.com/file/U3QEoKGw/Screen%20Shot%202019-12-17%20at%207.41.54%20PM.png
2019-12-18T03:43:20 < dongs> is that a jew joke
2019-12-18T03:43:23 < Cracki> there's a counter. if you try to write the 101st time it'll HCF and summon demons to eat your soul
2019-12-18T03:43:46 < Cracki> AirPozz
2019-12-18T03:43:59 < leite> yeah, a guy told me here that after 100 cycles it may not work from time to time
2019-12-18T03:44:05 < Cracki> shabbos goyim have to operate their light switches
2019-12-18T03:44:17 < Cracki> "from time to time"
2019-12-18T03:44:21 < Cracki> flash will degrade
2019-12-18T03:44:25 < Cracki> it'll get worse but not better
2019-12-18T03:44:37 < dongs> The physical granularity of the memory is 4 bytes, so cycling is performed on 4 bytes even when a
2019-12-18T03:44:40 < dongs> write/erase operation addresses a single byte.
2019-12-18T03:44:43 < dongs> heh
2019-12-18T03:45:05 < Cracki> that's almost eeprom
2019-12-18T03:45:28 < Cracki> except dies earlier
2019-12-18T03:46:36 < Cracki> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NdbkvJznmwU
2019-12-18T03:46:44 < dongs> i should try the chinese smt flux
2019-12-18T03:49:29 < qyx> I tried, it has awesome smell
2019-12-18T03:50:02 < Cracki> would you recommend to use it as perfume?
2019-12-18T03:50:13 < qyx> heh
2019-12-18T03:50:18 < Cracki> or does it smell too awe inspiring?
2019-12-18T03:50:28 < qyx> amtech was also good
2019-12-18T03:50:38 < qyx> now I have a polish one
2019-12-18T03:50:49 < Cracki> a plebe, he who huffs mere glue
2019-12-18T03:51:06 < Cracki> I feel the need to make a joke about polish flux
2019-12-18T03:53:43 < leite> omg, wtf is wrong with electric switches and shabbat
2019-12-18T03:54:03 < Cracki> maloche
2019-12-18T03:54:20 < Cracki> it means work. work is not kosher during shabbath
2019-12-18T03:54:47 < Cracki> you need to trick your god or get a "shabbos goy" to flick your switch for you
2019-12-18T03:55:00 < Cracki> same with all other kind of work, and any electricity is considered work (maloche)
2019-12-18T03:55:08 < dongs> qyx amtech is waht i got
2019-12-18T03:55:10 < dongs> well "amtech"
2019-12-18T03:55:11 < dongs> the chink clone
2019-12-18T03:55:36 < Cracki> the one with the genuine chinese sticker? or just chinese without genuine sticker?
2019-12-18T03:55:47 < dongs> genuine shiny chinese sticker
2019-12-18T03:55:57 < dongs> wiat lol it says made in usa
2019-12-18T03:55:58 < dongs> on shiny sticker
2019-12-18T03:56:02 < Cracki> good, wouldn't want counterfeit chinawares
2019-12-18T03:56:20 < Cracki> sticker was made in usa
2019-12-18T03:56:29 < qyx> they even cloned usa
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2019-12-18T04:34:49 < dongs> flux test result: A+
2019-12-18T04:35:09 < aandrew> BrainDamage: https://imgur.com/a/KLA4mrl using a frequency translating fir filter to drop a ~600kHz passband and shift the receiver ever so slightly to center the signal really helps
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2019-12-18T04:44:30 < dongs> this chinese ProMan nand/nor flash reader is prety great
2019-12-18T04:44:39 < dongs> just dumped a chip effortlessly after lifting it off the board
2019-12-18T04:44:42 < dongs> autodetected vendor and shit
2019-12-18T04:45:17 < aandrew> nice
2019-12-18T04:45:20 < aandrew> what are you trying ot reverse
2019-12-18T04:45:46 < dongs> need to prove to a pal that this jap router doesnt run lunix :)
2019-12-18T04:45:58 < dongs> and, proof complete
2019-12-18T04:46:04 < dongs> its 16meg nor and tehre's no lunix
2019-12-18T04:46:05 < Cracki> hah
2019-12-18T04:46:19 < Cracki> wats it then?
2019-12-18T04:46:23 < Cracki> threadx, vxworks, ...
2019-12-18T04:46:56 < aandrew> red dragon os
2019-12-18T04:47:06 < dongs> its mindspeed proc, so prolly vxworks or some custom jap shite
2019-12-18T04:47:38 < Cracki> kawaii
2019-12-18T04:47:54 < dongs> got the main image decompressed
2019-12-18T04:47:57 < dongs> 20megs
2019-12-18T04:48:13 < Cracki> grep for gpl while you're in there
2019-12-18T04:48:31 < Cracki> some open sores peeps will be interested to know
2019-12-18T04:51:34 < dongs> *SSH Compatible Server*
2019-12-18T04:51:34 < dongs> *OSU_0*,OSU_1.0*,OSU_1.1*,OSU_1.2*,OSU_1.3*,OSU_1.4*,OSU_1.5alpha1*,OSU_1.5alpha2*,OSU_1.5alpha3*
2019-12-18T04:52:44 < Cracki> strings from openssh
2019-12-18T04:52:59 < Cracki> https://github.com/openssh/openssh-portable/blob/master/compat.c#L92
2019-12-18T04:53:25 < dongs> ah ye that looks about right
2019-12-18T04:53:27 < dongs> same patterns
2019-12-18T04:55:53 < Cracki> binwalk
2019-12-18T04:55:58 < dongs> Lua 5.1.4
2019-12-18T04:56:14 < Cracki> the plot thiccens
2019-12-18T04:56:24 < dongs> Marvell 88E6171R
2019-12-18T04:57:02 < Cracki> openwrt could run on that chip
2019-12-18T04:57:25 < dongs> isnt marvell thing just a ethernet switch
2019-12-18T04:57:35 < Cracki> right!
2019-12-18T04:57:46 < dongs> i wouldnt wanna run openwrt on it, this thing is a proper gigabit router that actually works at gigabit speeds
2019-12-18T04:57:54 < Cracki> I found a linksys that uses that for switch, and *it* can run that... cpu is marvell 88f6282
2019-12-18T04:58:00 < Cracki> hehe
2019-12-18T04:58:06 < dongs>
2019-12-18T04:58:07 < dongs> YAMAHA RTX810 URL
2019-12-18T04:58:24 < Cracki> maker of jetskis and midi keyboards
2019-12-18T04:59:18 < Cracki> hah it has a rs232 serial port
2019-12-18T04:59:53 < dongs> yes yes it does
2019-12-18T05:00:01 < dongs> with a proper serial console at 9600
2019-12-18T05:00:07 < Cracki> damn the command ref pdf is 500 pages
2019-12-18T05:00:15 < dongs> i got 8 of these for 100 bucks (i can easily resell each at $200+) and 7 of them work
2019-12-18T05:00:31 < Cracki> ospf and bgp too
2019-12-18T05:00:31 < dongs> the 8th one was all rusted due to water ingress or something but flash was fine
2019-12-18T05:00:34 < dongs> which is why i took it out
2019-12-18T05:00:55 < Cracki> that's some good ware
2019-12-18T05:01:57 < Cracki> lists CVEs for openssl, prolly other stuff too https://www.yamaha.com/products/en/network/download/assets/other/relnote_rtx810_11_01_29_en.txt
2019-12-18T05:03:03 < dongs> so much HTML in that image
2019-12-18T05:03:08 < Cracki> Open source software used in the product • PCRE • MT19937 • OpenSSL • Original SSLeay • Net-SNMP
2019-12-18T05:03:54 < Cracki> yeah no, that doesn't smell like linux, that's a proper embedded system
2019-12-18T05:05:13 < dongs> found the kernel strings
2019-12-18T05:05:32 < dongs> Installed dummy FAM trap-handler
2019-12-18T05:05:49 < dongs> ###Initialization for GDB
2019-12-18T05:05:50 < dongs> oooh
2019-12-18T05:05:52 < dongs> it has a gdb stub?
2019-12-18T05:06:20 < dongs> @(#)Lib core_xep arm version BL627_Source_Code_Release
2019-12-18T05:06:21 < dongs> @(#)Core Server Library (no debug, error checks and user mode protection)
2019-12-18T05:06:53 < dongs> OSE Delta ARM/BL627
2019-12-18T05:07:10 < dongs> https://www.enea.com/globalassets/downloads/operating-systems/enea-ose/datasheet-enea-ose.pdf this ?
2019-12-18T05:07:26 < dongs> well, 2008 version of anyway
2019-12-18T05:08:08 < Cracki> "ose delta" says lauterbach
2019-12-18T05:08:18 < dongs> enea prolyl b ought that shit
2019-12-18T05:08:21 < Cracki> trace stuff
2019-12-18T05:08:28 < dongs> lauterbach is debugger company
2019-12-18T05:08:48 < dongs> http://www.dienstbeck.de/RTOS/byName/OSE/ose.html
2019-12-18T05:08:55 < Cracki> OSE has its own wikipedia page https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operating_System_Embedded
2019-12-18T05:09:56 < dongs> zssh_deflate 1.2.2 Copyright 1995-2004 Jean-loup Gailly
2019-12-18T05:10:16 < dongs> RC2 part of OpenSSL 0.9.7g 11 Apr 2005
2019-12-18T05:10:18 < dongs> nice
2019-12-18T05:10:19 < Cracki> >Consultants from Enea Data designed OSE Delta in the early 1980's for usage in Ericsson's telecommunication equipment.
2019-12-18T05:10:20 < dongs> thats super fresh
2019-12-18T05:10:45 < Cracki> so probably good engineering
2019-12-18T05:10:51 < Cracki> apart from the open sores stuff :>
2019-12-18T05:11:05 < dongs> The owls are not what they seem
2019-12-18T05:11:05 < dongs> KERNEL PANIC!
2019-12-18T05:12:00 < dongs> hmm 2012 thats a bit too fresh for pop culture references in kernel sores
2019-12-18T05:12:04 < dongs> yeah definitely good engineering
2019-12-18T05:12:10 < dongs> Tue Aug 7 07:43:39 2012
2019-12-18T05:12:22 < dongs> ok that album released jan 2012
2019-12-18T05:13:04 < dongs> $Id: usbSpecifDrv.c,v 1.5 2002/12/25 04:31:59 has Exp $
2019-12-18T05:16:14 < dongs> hmm
2019-12-18T05:16:18 < dongs> default yamaha password is there
2019-12-18T05:16:19 < dongs> in the bin
2019-12-18T05:16:20 < dongs> in plain text
2019-12-18T05:20:43 < dongs> hmm i should be able to flash same shit back on new chips then
2019-12-18T05:20:46 < dongs> using this chink writer
2019-12-18T05:24:07 < dongs> wow writing is slow
2019-12-18T05:24:28 < Cracki> erasing could take a minute maybe
2019-12-18T05:24:38 < dongs> Reading data from 0x0 to 0xffffff.
2019-12-18T05:24:39 < aandrew> reselling cable modems? there's a market for that in japland?
2019-12-18T05:24:39 < dongs> Verify successfully. Total 16777216(0x1000000) bytes.
2019-12-18T05:24:40 < dongs> nice
2019-12-18T05:27:50 < dongs> hmm
2019-12-18T05:27:53 < dongs> BootROM string isnt there
2019-12-18T05:28:08 < dongs> oh ther it is
2019-12-18T05:28:15 < dongs> that wasnt in compressed image of course
2019-12-18T05:33:51 < dongs> #11 1 4 0..login password encrypted PMoXdegnZa/3aocvTkA511okXFzLoobM..
2019-12-18T05:33:53 < dongs> hmm
2019-12-18T05:34:05 < dongs> what shitty hash does that look like
2019-12-18T05:37:07 < Cracki> maybe just base64
2019-12-18T05:38:26 < Cracki> that'd be 24 bytes
2019-12-18T05:38:28 < Cracki> if it's b64
2019-12-18T05:38:40 < dongs> login password encrypted PMoXdegnZa/3aocvTkA511okXFzLoobM
2019-12-18T05:38:44 < dongs> i dont think it is
2019-12-18T05:38:52 < Cracki> google doesn't know 3cca1775e82765aff76a872f4e4039d75a245c5ccba286cc
2019-12-18T05:39:43 < dongs> hm wait, why does base64 on lunix decode it but nothing else does
2019-12-18T05:40:06 < Cracki> python's codec.decode can do it too
2019-12-18T05:40:42 < Cracki> it's binary data of course
2019-12-18T05:42:16 < dongs> http://www.rtpro.yamaha.co.jp/RT/manual/rt-common/setup/login_password_encrypted.html
2019-12-18T05:42:18 < dongs> up to 32 bytes
2019-12-18T05:42:52 < dongs> i suppsoe i can try setting random known passwords and see how it changes or just reverse part of the code that decrypts it
2019-12-18T05:43:05 < dongs> i doubt its anythign advanced
2019-12-18T05:43:09 < dongs> prolly a xor pad
2019-12-18T05:43:58 < dongs> hmm but wait
2019-12-18T05:44:03 < dongs> i guessed one of the passwords
2019-12-18T05:44:06 < dongs> login user kanri encrypted XlqbA6clj5Br3QlhKalwC/jw7u0ukUuK
2019-12-18T05:44:13 < dongs> this one is just kanri:kanri
2019-12-18T05:44:17 < dongs> but string length is same
2019-12-18T05:44:34 < dongs> are they just doing one-way hash
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2019-12-18T05:45:49 < dongs> 192 bit hash..
2019-12-18T05:45:49 < dongs> what
2019-12-18T05:57:40 < dongs> NICE
2019-12-18T05:57:43 < dongs> found backdoor debug command
2019-12-18T05:57:59 < dongs> and has memory dump
2019-12-18T06:01:14 < dongs> hmm dumping ram above 1000 reboots
2019-12-18T06:01:15 < dongs> heh
2019-12-18T06:03:33 < dongs> 2019/12/18 13:04:47: Rebooted by Data Abort(4)
2019-12-18T06:03:52 < englishman> what are you doing
2019-12-18T06:04:01 < englishman> sounds like innovations
2019-12-18T06:05:19 < Cracki> got anywhere with the 192 bit hash?
2019-12-18T06:05:26 < dongs> nope
2019-12-18T06:05:31 < dongs> the only one on kikepedia is "tiger"
2019-12-18T06:06:59 < Cracki> it could be sha1 but sha1("kanri") is 73a... and not 5e5a... (Xlqb...)
2019-12-18T06:07:29 < Cracki> nvm, sha1 is 160
2019-12-18T06:07:48 < Cracki> it could be truncated, or 160+32 or something similar
2019-12-18T06:07:58 < Cracki> or 128+64
2019-12-18T06:08:14 < Cracki> wait, didn't you mention rc2 or something
2019-12-18T06:08:38 < Cracki> nvm, related to rsa
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2019-12-18T06:13:50 < englishman> https://tibbo.com/store/plus1/specifications.html
2019-12-18T06:13:51 < englishman> wtf
2019-12-18T06:14:02 < englishman> 1ghz a7, 512mb integrated ram and 8051
2019-12-18T06:18:09 < MrMobius> 202mhz 8051???
2019-12-18T06:20:45 < Cracki> sounds like a very fast printer
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2019-12-18T06:31:09 < dongs> is that chink shit
2019-12-18T06:31:26 < dongs> Selectable 32KHz or 202MHz operating speed;
2019-12-18T06:31:33 < dongs> i like how it goes from one wtf range to another
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2019-12-18T07:02:05 < aandrew> wtf is that proc englishman
2019-12-18T07:02:12 < aandrew> quad core a7, arm926 and 8051
2019-12-18T07:02:17 < aandrew> it's like they can't make up their minds
2019-12-18T07:02:27 < aandrew> surprised there's no z80 in there
2019-12-18T07:03:26 < aandrew> that chip is cheap as fuck
2019-12-18T07:26:19 < aandrew> watching hot fuzz, great movie although silly
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2019-12-18T08:49:14 < kakinull> sure
2019-12-18T09:12:30 < dongs> any idea if chinaflux is conductive?
2019-12-18T09:12:33 < dongs> the NC-ASM 559 shit
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2019-12-18T09:19:58 < thardin> do they have datasheets you can look at?
2019-12-18T09:21:58 < dongs> amtech prolly does..
2019-12-18T09:27:13 < thardin> http://www.inventecusa.com/assets/nc-559-asm.pdf
2019-12-18T09:27:35 < thardin> wait that's solder paste, not flux
2019-12-18T09:28:29 < aandrew> I just use some mg-chemicals shit
2019-12-18T09:28:34 < aandrew> tacky flux is the best
2019-12-18T09:28:45 < aandrew> wish I learned about it 15y ago
2019-12-18T09:29:08 < dongs> lol god damn chinks
2019-12-18T09:29:11 < thardin> then follow up with the 'ol dishwasher routine?
2019-12-18T09:29:13 < dongs> they even cloned wrong part number
2019-12-18T09:29:17 < aandrew> haha
2019-12-18T09:29:19 < thardin> lol
2019-12-18T09:29:28 < thardin> you get what you pay for
2019-12-18T09:29:31 < dongs> Flux Type: NC-559-ASM
2019-12-18T09:29:42 < dongs> http://www.inventecusa.com/assets/nc-559-asm-tf.pdf
2019-12-18T09:29:44 < dongs> i guess its this
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2019-12-18T10:34:24 < aandrew> well that's nice
2019-12-18T10:34:32 < aandrew> found the last bug assigned to me ofr this contract
2019-12-18T10:34:35 < aandrew> leaving on a high note
2019-12-18T10:34:43 < aandrew> but still sad that the contract's done
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2019-12-18T10:57:43 < Thorn> live https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=becyKrRWbaw
2019-12-18T10:58:17 < jly> quite phallic
2019-12-18T11:51:55 < kakipr0> if size is not an issue is there any reason to use other than sot23 signal transistors?
2019-12-18T11:55:31 < qyx> you mean if theres a reason to use smaller?
2019-12-18T11:57:45 < kakipr0> yes
2019-12-18T12:07:47 < Thorn> max current, power dissiipation
2019-12-18T12:08:55 < kakipr0> yes
2019-12-18T12:12:19 < zyp> FET? I guess smaller transistors (current wise) generally also have lower gate capacitance
2019-12-18T12:16:04 < kakipr0> and leakage is propotional to currents too
2019-12-18T12:17:01 < zyp> yes
2019-12-18T12:17:21 < kakipr0> but those things have little to do with package
2019-12-18T12:17:59 < zyp> well, to a degree there's a relation between physical size and current capacity
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2019-12-18T13:24:23 < qyx> you can switch your signals at 20GHz
2019-12-18T13:24:48 < qyx> to avoid LED flickering while PWMing
2019-12-18T13:26:39 < doomba> was using 12Ghz but the flicker was still noticable.
2019-12-18T13:26:45 * doomba snorts another line
2019-12-18T13:27:25 < qyx> jadew` is pro on multi-GHz flicker-less LED driving
2019-12-18T13:27:30 < qyx> he knows FETs
2019-12-18T13:36:46 < Ultrasauce> the eye can only see 30 GHz
2019-12-18T13:41:22 < Mangy_Dog> wait what
2019-12-18T13:41:32 < Mangy_Dog> youre seeing led flicker in the ghz range!?
2019-12-18T13:41:49 < Mangy_Dog> is this a joke?
2019-12-18T13:41:58 < Ultrasauce> absolutely serious
2019-12-18T13:42:22 < Mangy_Dog> i dont think you are!?
2019-12-18T13:42:46 < Ultrasauce> think harder
2019-12-18T13:42:55 < Mangy_Dog> you certainly shouldnt be seeing flicker at 1ghz even with a moving led....
2019-12-18T13:44:01 < Ultrasauce> you can avoid the flicker if you synchronize it to your brain's clock signal
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2019-12-18T13:45:17 < englishman> have genetic advances allowed us to see NIR yet
2019-12-18T13:45:26 < Mangy_Dog> sadly no
2019-12-18T13:45:32 < Mangy_Dog> then i can see through peoples clothing
2019-12-18T13:45:35 < Mangy_Dog> umm wait
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2019-12-18T13:45:44 < Mangy_Dog> i did not mean to say that out loud!?!?!?!?!? *Runs
2019-12-18T13:46:09 < englishman> FLIR is divesting from microbolometers so it wouldn't even put them out of business
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2019-12-18T13:59:39 < doomba> flir needs to lower their prices so police departments in every city can invest in drones that fly around 24/7 sending live feeds back to AWS
2019-12-18T14:00:02 < doomba> where palantir AI processes it looking for patterns indicative of anti-consumerism
2019-12-18T14:03:21 < thardin> don't police already use them to find weed growers?
2019-12-18T14:06:54 < Cracki> those are contributing to consumerism i.e. okay
2019-12-18T14:07:06 < kakipr0> they also use radiospectrometry
2019-12-18T14:07:51 < kakipr0> ballast / regulators of cheap growing lights
2019-12-18T14:08:15 < kakipr0> just triangulate that plentyful noise
2019-12-18T14:08:18 < jadew`> that is true qyx, but on this current project I drive them in the 500 MHz range, because it's a Christmas tree light system and it has to twinkle slower
2019-12-18T14:11:45 < thardin> kakipr0: hadn't even considered that
2019-12-18T14:11:50 < thardin> the one time they care about EMI
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2019-12-18T15:30:50 < superbia> evening boomers
2019-12-18T15:30:51 < superbia> Steffanx:
2019-12-18T15:32:57 < doomba> good evening, zoomperbia
2019-12-18T15:33:11 < superbia> sup zoomba
2019-12-18T15:33:18 < doomba> not much. just zoomin with some javascript.
2019-12-18T15:33:28 < superbia> are you doing web assembly
2019-12-18T15:33:37 < superbia> are you NOT doing web assembly ?
2019-12-18T15:33:47 < doomba> just javashit
2019-12-18T15:34:23 < superbia> it's not shit, it's better than b++
2019-12-18T15:34:42 < doomba> anything is better than boomer++
2019-12-18T15:35:15 < superbia> last day of werk tommorow
2019-12-18T15:37:00 < superbia> and then hit the road superbia
2019-12-18T15:48:23 < Steffanx> Gooday superbia
2019-12-18T15:48:36 < Steffanx> No friday is the last day of werk
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2019-12-18T15:48:48 < Steffanx> Then it's a 2 week holiday
2019-12-18T15:49:44 < doomba> only if you're elysium class
2019-12-18T15:50:33 < Steffanx> doomba arent you on permanent holiday?
2019-12-18T15:50:58 < doomba> yep
2019-12-18T15:55:17 < dongs> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kbWxXFIGRbE oops i missed this
2019-12-18T15:55:45 < dongs> wait waht the fuck is this
2019-12-18T15:55:49 < dongs> thats not spacex stream
2019-12-18T15:56:12 < dongs> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sbXgZg9JmkI the original
2019-12-18T15:56:55 < Cracki> the most exciting ones are the falcon heavy ones because there you have synchronized landing and an exhausted center core with a chance of crashing
2019-12-18T16:02:59 < tcth> https://stackoverflow.com/questions/59393642/how-to-attach-and-read-data-from-an-ic-with-raspberry-or-arduino
2019-12-18T16:03:18 < dongs> Lol
2019-12-18T16:03:45 < dongs> tcth you should go to your kitchen, stick a multimeter probe into a raspberry, take a pic, then post it as reply
2019-12-18T16:04:12 < dongs> bonus points if you stab the other end of the probe into a retarduino
2019-12-18T16:04:40 < tcth> lol
2019-12-18T16:05:25 < tcth> well I flagged it now
2019-12-18T16:06:27 < tcth> lol, now the dude edited the question and added the information that: The IC does not contain a SPI Interface so far
2019-12-18T16:09:56 < thardin> "question too specific. could you be more vague?"
2019-12-18T16:09:58 < tcth> dongs, lol, you gotta F5
2019-12-18T16:10:03 < tcth> dongs, dat comment
2019-12-18T16:10:16 < dongs> NO SPI
2019-12-18T16:10:22 < dongs> yeah thats mr aandrew here
2019-12-18T16:10:47 < dongs> wait its not
2019-12-18T16:11:18 < dongs> oh andrew morton is that fucking lunix paedophile
2019-12-18T16:11:26 < dongs> lunix kernel
2019-12-18T16:12:08 < doomba> a SPI interface "so far"
2019-12-18T16:12:12 < Cracki> what makes people be so vague? he could have said what chip it is, what kinda protocol he expects, ...
2019-12-18T16:12:25 < Cracki> sounds like he doesn't even know
2019-12-18T16:12:39 < Cracki> sounds like he needs a scope or LA
2019-12-18T16:12:47 < dongs> if he could formulate the fucking question, he would alreadyt know the answer
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2019-12-18T16:13:43 < doomba> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7KwJZT6lOJc
2019-12-18T16:15:15 < Cracki> did someone break up with you?
2019-12-18T16:17:07 < doomba> my arduino left me :(
2019-12-18T16:19:17 < Cracki> it didn't want your raw data
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2019-12-18T16:21:29 < superbia> not raw, medium rare
2019-12-18T16:22:58 < Cracki> that is indeed rare data
2019-12-18T16:23:01 < dongs> aidsWRT does run on that chip btw
2019-12-18T16:23:07 < dongs> The OpenWRT Linux-based SDK is optimized for both
2019-12-18T16:23:07 < dongs> single-core and dual-core operation. Figure 1-1 shows
2019-12-18T16:23:07 < dongs> the block diagram of LS10xMA.
2019-12-18T16:23:20 < dongs> tho i bet it wouldnt use anywhere near the hardware features this thing provides
2019-12-18T16:23:25 < dongs> would prolly turn it into barely 100mbit router
2019-12-18T16:24:50 < Cracki> routing all in software
2019-12-18T16:24:53 < Cracki> yeh
2019-12-18T16:32:34 < superbia> proWRT
2019-12-18T16:36:58 < qyx> which chip
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2019-12-18T16:42:21 < qyx> speaking of growing lights
2019-12-18T16:42:30 < qyx> they are super cheap now
2019-12-18T16:42:38 < qyx> how could that happen
2019-12-18T16:42:47 < qyx> I should buy some
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2019-12-18T16:44:09 < tcth> to grow what?
2019-12-18T16:49:27 < Steffanx> Weed.. duh
2019-12-18T16:52:23 < tcth> Steffan
2019-12-18T16:53:38 -!- jsoft [~jsoft@unaffiliated/jsoft] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds]
2019-12-18T16:55:00 < englishman> qyx: of course
2019-12-18T16:55:06 < englishman> as long as you don't buy led
2019-12-18T16:55:24 < englishman> we got ~5kW of mh and hps a few years ago
2019-12-18T16:55:31 < englishman> zero problems
2019-12-18T16:56:22 < englishman> with all the led shit it was super expensive and nothing but problems
2019-12-18T17:02:03 < tcth> I didn´t know that englishman is in the weed growing business
2019-12-18T17:02:20 < englishman> same
2019-12-18T17:03:59 < Steffanx> Tcth
2019-12-18T17:05:22 < Steffanx> tcth: still doesn't know how to write '
2019-12-18T17:05:29 < Ultrasauce> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b_TEmdAiEok musicspam
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2019-12-18T17:20:38 < bitmask> I see an article about carbon nanotube processors/transistors every once in a while, its always so disappointing. its always about the same 'breakthrough' which is garbage
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2019-12-18T17:25:56 < emeb> "Hey George - hitrate on the website is getting slow. Time to turn the crank on the clickbait articles again!"
2019-12-18T17:32:53 < bitmask> yup
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2019-12-18T17:51:16 < BrainDamage> nearly all future tech articles are either wrong or too late
2019-12-18T17:51:35 < BrainDamage> as in, the only moderately factually accurate articles tends to be 'old news' since years
2019-12-18T18:03:18 < Ultrasauce> one nanotube please
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2019-12-18T18:11:21 < doomba> i wonder why future tech articles never talk about how AI will be used to cure disease among the rich and conceal it from the poor?
2019-12-18T18:12:44 < doomba> imagine real-time AI-edited MRIs and xrays that show or hide cancerous tumors depending on what an algorithm says about one's ability to pay the bill
2019-12-18T18:13:05 < tcth> doomba, what is there to imagine? that is how most devices work these days - including my oscilloscope
2019-12-18T18:13:31 < tcth> oh, you want to see the serial data decoded? please enter a product key :)
2019-12-18T18:13:33 < doomba> lol yeah
2019-12-18T18:13:59 < BrainDamage> that already exists to some extent
2019-12-18T18:14:04 < doomba> your oscilliscope is like "tcth didn't pay the maker tax this month. i'm going to make this waveform look exactly perfect so the problem at hand cannot be solved.
2019-12-18T18:14:15 < tcth> BrainDamage +1
2019-12-18T18:14:28 < BrainDamage> if you pay more you have access to better medical help
2019-12-18T18:14:38 < BrainDamage> without involving AI
2019-12-18T18:14:44 < tcth> I had an MRI a few weeks ago and then spit out two sets of data - the one they give to the patient directly and the one that you only get after you had a talk with a medical/doctor
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2019-12-18T18:21:07 < doomba> The case is U.S. v. Holmes, 18-cr-00258, United States District Court for the Northern District of California and it is set to begin on July 28, 2020.[59][60] They face up to 20 years in prison.[61][62]
2019-12-18T18:21:09 < doomba> heh
2019-12-18T18:21:59 < doomba> when theranos bitch gets no conviction, i might actually make a twitter account and bring out an old demon
2019-12-18T18:31:23 < Thorn> U.S. federal courts do not allow video broadcasts from the courtroom
2019-12-18T18:31:38 < Thorn> so no show on lawandcrime.net :/
2019-12-18T18:31:55 < Thorn> .com
2019-12-18T18:45:43 < Mangy_Dog> whos they and why do they face 20 years?
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2019-12-18T18:53:50 < aandrew> doomba: what is that case
2019-12-18T18:53:57 < aandrew> morning innovators
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2019-12-18T18:58:14 < tcth> don´t tell me you start your innovating for the day just now? You´re hours behind everyone else!
2019-12-18T18:58:44 < doomba> MAKE:R Lyfe!
2019-12-18T18:59:00 -!- fsasm [~fsasm@62.178.93.7] has quit [Ping timeout: 268 seconds]
2019-12-18T18:59:25 < Steffanx> Fuck innovation
2019-12-18T18:59:50 < aandrew> tcth: I'm in vancouver (9am here) and was up until 2am last night innovating
2019-12-18T19:00:18 < tcth> aandrew, I know, but why would you even bother going to bed and stop innovating at all?
2019-12-18T19:00:34 < tcth> the key to successful innovating is to never stop innovating
2019-12-18T19:01:13 < aandrew> tcth: agreed but REM state is important for innovation. otherwise you're just splashing around in the shallow end of hte pool
2019-12-18T19:02:02 < Steffanx> What if you never stop innovation but never get successful?
2019-12-18T19:03:49 < doomba> then you might have BWVS
2019-12-18T19:03:54 < Steffanx> Ans then there are people that do it once and then stop forever.
2019-12-18T19:04:00 < Steffanx> And*
2019-12-18T19:04:56 < Steffanx> Because successful
2019-12-18T19:05:33 < doomba> BWVS affects most people
2019-12-18T19:05:33 < emeb> define successful
2019-12-18T19:08:12 < Steffanx> Idk. Money I guess :)
2019-12-18T19:08:32 < doomba> innovation is obsolete
2019-12-18T19:08:36 < Steffanx> What is bwvs?
2019-12-18T19:08:46 < doomba> you really wanna be disrupting the disruptor of the disruptor industry. and revolutionizing.
2019-12-18T19:08:47 < emeb> mine: enough resources to live comfortably, doing whatever you want.
2019-12-18T19:09:00 < doomba> BWVS = born from wrong vagina syndrome
2019-12-18T19:09:07 < Steffanx> Lolwut
2019-12-18T19:10:02 < doomba> it's the precondition to NEETdom
2019-12-18T19:14:43 < Steffanx> Hm
2019-12-18T19:16:46 < bitmask> o/
2019-12-18T19:16:50 < bitmask> \o
2019-12-18T19:16:52 < bitmask> o/
2019-12-18T19:16:56 < bitmask> do it with me now
2019-12-18T19:17:09 < bitmask> sorry
2019-12-18T19:18:26 < Steffanx> Is bitmask alright? Do you know?
2019-12-18T19:18:44 < leite> maybe he needs a hug
2019-12-18T19:19:00 < bitmask> does who know, bitmask is fine
2019-12-18T19:19:29 < bitmask> got a delivery, time to work
2019-12-18T19:19:31 < bitmask> bbl
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2019-12-18T19:20:08 < aandrew> what the fuck is born from wrong vagina syndrome?!
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2019-12-18T19:28:16 < Steffanx> Its doomba's latest innovation
2019-12-18T19:32:54 < BrainDamage> aandrew: ass baby
2019-12-18T19:33:35 < aandrew> BrainDamage: ahh
2019-12-18T19:33:39 < Thorn> BrainDamage: I'd rather you talk PLLs tbh
2019-12-18T19:34:11 < qyx> lol
2019-12-18T19:35:10 < aandrew> BrainDamage: did you see my latest? https://imgur.com/a/KLA4mrl
2019-12-18T19:35:32 < aandrew> who'd have thought, centering the receiver on the signal and dropping a really sharp bandpass across it helps a lot. heh
2019-12-18T19:37:38 < BrainDamage> if you want a quantitative improvement of your rx, look for bit (t)error rate
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2019-12-18T19:39:04 < aandrew> well I need to slice it up and packetize it first
2019-12-18T19:39:06 < BrainDamage> send a known sequence of random bits, and decode them
2019-12-18T19:39:06 < BrainDamage> then count the wrong bits
2019-12-18T19:39:22 < aandrew> I kno I have a ways to go yet
2019-12-18T19:39:53 < aandrew> what is odd is that I have no real difference between this flowgraph and one where I'm using a carrier tracking pll
2019-12-18T19:40:14 < aandrew> it's all packed away now (flying home tomorrow) but it's still fun to think about
2019-12-18T19:41:05 < BrainDamage> iirc you had a huge bandwith, so the pll was tracking every single glitch
2019-12-18T19:41:21 < BrainDamage> you want a narrow bandwith so it outputs a pure sine, then mux with that
2019-12-18T19:41:30 < BrainDamage> then integrate
2019-12-18T19:41:38 < BrainDamage> and lowpass
2019-12-18T19:42:06 < BrainDamage> you'll end up like the situation of the frequency xlating, except the complex signal is phase locked to the carrier
2019-12-18T19:42:11 < BrainDamage> instead of random
2019-12-18T19:42:35 < BrainDamage> so you can tighten the filter bandwith a lot
2019-12-18T19:42:51 < aandrew> interesting
2019-12-18T19:43:18 < aandrew> I had the output of the xlating FIR going to a demod like here, but also to a tracking pll feeding a demod, then graphing both together
2019-12-18T19:43:34 < BrainDamage> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Matched_filter
2019-12-18T19:45:17 < aandrew> hm, so instead of xlating FIR -> pll, I should have a tight bandwidth PLL -> integrate -> filter -> demod?
2019-12-18T19:45:40 < BrainDamage> the pll has to feed a mixer
2019-12-18T19:46:08 < BrainDamage> one input of the mixer is the original signal, the other is the pll's output
2019-12-18T19:46:25 < aandrew> yes, the carrier tracking PLL does that
2019-12-18T19:47:09 < BrainDamage> alternatively, depending on the pll implementation, if you can tap the plls' error signal from the loop ... that's already the demodulated output
2019-12-18T19:47:34 < BrainDamage> because every jump in phase will correspond to the error signal going to the opposite side
2019-12-18T19:47:45 < BrainDamage> so you take the error signal, invert, and you're done
2019-12-18T19:48:23 < BrainDamage> and you can make the pll's bandwith be ~ the bitrate
2019-12-18T19:49:25 < aandrew> *nods* I'd read about that
2019-12-18T19:51:19 < BrainDamage> the step after is to make the treshold for the bit decisor not be fixed, but account for FEC
2019-12-18T19:51:36 < BrainDamage> a fixed decisor is called a hard treshold, a mobile is called a soft decoder
2019-12-18T19:51:53 < aandrew> FEC or DC balance?
2019-12-18T19:52:23 < aandrew> I've often seen the comparator decision level to "float" with the DC of the signal
2019-12-18T19:52:44 < BrainDamage> doing a proper demodulation will chop off the dc
2019-12-18T19:53:01 < BrainDamage> because dc gets modulated by the sine
2019-12-18T19:53:11 < BrainDamage> which goes outside your receiver bandwith
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2019-12-18T19:53:25 < BrainDamage> this is another reason to heterodyne your sdr btw
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2019-12-18T20:05:32 < aandrew> BrainDamage: right; what I'd like to eventually do is digitize all 80MHz of the 2.4G ISM band in one go
2019-12-18T20:06:21 < aandrew> my plan was to LNA/BPF, hetrodyne 2400-2480 -> 0-80, digitize that at 160-200msps and then deal with it all in software/hdl
2019-12-18T20:07:31 < aandrew> there are dual ADCs which aren't too pricey and with 100MHz+ analog bandwidth which can do that
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2019-12-18T20:42:48 < mawk> with how many channels aandrew ?
2019-12-18T20:56:52 < ub|k> am I correct to assume that ITM should work out of the box with the STM32F4DISCO board (https://www.st.com/en/evaluation-tools/stm32f4discovery.html#)?
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2019-12-18T21:02:59 < aandrew> mawk: two channels
2019-12-18T21:03:08 < mawk> ah
2019-12-18T21:03:14 < mawk> but you said the whole band in one go
2019-12-18T21:03:45 < mawk> how many channels on that 80MHz your are listening to concurrently ?
2019-12-18T21:03:56 < aandrew> have a LO I/Q at 2400, mix with signal from antenna/amp/filter, LPF and digitize I/Q with dual 100-ishMHz ADC
2019-12-18T21:04:10 < aandrew> oh, assuming 1MHz channels but it doesn't matter
2019-12-18T21:04:13 < mawk> ah
2019-12-18T21:04:18 < mawk> I see
2019-12-18T21:04:35 < mawk> nice project
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2019-12-18T21:35:23 < Thorn> how expensive would an SDR be for 868MHz, 2MHz BW?
2019-12-18T21:35:52 < jadew`> 10 usd
2019-12-18T21:35:54 < Thorn> with LO & IQ mixer in the analog path
2019-12-18T21:36:00 < thardin> one hundred million dollars
2019-12-18T21:36:29 < thardin> Thorn: how many channels? simplex or duplex?
2019-12-18T21:37:43 < Thorn> minimum 1 rx + 1 tx, half duplex
2019-12-18T21:37:48 < qyx> Thorn: check semtech, they have all-in-one chip for that
2019-12-18T21:38:16 < Thorn> ideally 2tx+2rx, full duplex
2019-12-18T21:38:25 < qyx> https://www.semtech.com/products/wireless-rf/lora-gateways/sx1258
2019-12-18T21:38:27 < qyx> Thorn: ^
2019-12-18T21:39:16 < qyx> SX1257 is the right one
2019-12-18T21:39:54 < thardin> Thorn: hackrf can do that
2019-12-18T21:40:13 < qyx> oh you want to buy one
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2019-12-18T21:40:32 < Thorn> hackrf is $500? also I want it in my device, not as a separate product
2019-12-18T21:40:46 < Thorn> nope design one and integrate it into a project
2019-12-18T21:42:24 < qyx> then the semtech one maybe
2019-12-18T21:42:47 < qyx> now I see they have a multi-band one too
2019-12-18T21:43:33 < thardin> you could crib its design
2019-12-18T21:43:46 < thardin> not that it's super great, but it might do the job depending
2019-12-18T21:44:06 < thardin> how many units are you making?
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2019-12-18T21:44:35 < qyx> https://semtech.my.salesforce.com/
2019-12-18T21:44:37 < qyx> fuk slesforce
2019-12-18T21:44:47 < Thorn> qyx: thanks, that chip looks promising
2019-12-18T21:45:13 < Thorn> that + small fpga = looks like a nice first sdr project
2019-12-18T21:45:54 < qyx> mhm the multiband one does not have TX path with DAC
2019-12-18T21:45:59 < qyx> only tunable VCO + PA
2019-12-18T21:49:13 < Thorn> thardin: just prototypes out of my own pocket at the moment
2019-12-18T21:50:58 < thardin> is the goal to make an sdr or to make something *with* an sdr?
2019-12-18T21:51:21 < thardin> I almost fell into the former trap a while back before I realized my time is worth too much for that
2019-12-18T21:52:16 < Thorn> a wireless network coordinator for SI4463 slaves
2019-12-18T21:53:21 < thardin> then I'd just buy a decent sdr. they come in handy
2019-12-18T21:53:29 < thardin> limesdr might also be an option
2019-12-18T21:54:07 < thardin> fiddling with software modem and protocol stuff is tricky enough
2019-12-18T21:54:16 < Thorn> I've got a limesdr mini, it's been pretty useless apart from a waterfall display
2019-12-18T21:54:28 < Thorn> most software refuses to work with it / has no support
2019-12-18T21:54:38 < thardin> oh? huh
2019-12-18T21:55:00 < Thorn> even latest gnuradio iirc
2019-12-18T21:55:11 < thardin> hackrf works OK enough. switching between RX/TX takes a few hundred ms tho
2019-12-18T21:55:29 < thardin> noise figure is a bit on the high side, about 10 dB
2019-12-18T21:55:50 < thardin> bandwidth is more than enough
2019-12-18T21:57:04 < thardin> output power is 10 mW or so, which can be OK depending on how much throughput and distance you need
2019-12-18T21:58:05 < jadew`> I have the hackrf and while you can get some things done with it, I find it to be performing poorly as a RF device
2019-12-18T21:58:29 < Cracki> what's it good at?
2019-12-18T21:58:45 < jadew`> Cracki, it covers a lot of bandwidth
2019-12-18T21:58:49 < thardin> yes
2019-12-18T21:58:55 < Cracki> hmhm
2019-12-18T21:58:59 < thardin> you need an LNA do get decent RX
2019-12-18T21:59:05 < jadew`> other than that... it's 8 bit
2019-12-18T21:59:09 < jadew`> and high noise floor
2019-12-18T21:59:28 < Thorn> musics https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LjeY5b49chE
2019-12-18T21:59:51 < jadew`> it's not what you'd want in a lab
2019-12-18T22:00:14 < thardin> how good is ettus' gear?
2019-12-18T22:00:15 < Cracki> in a lab... you'd want separate mixer (or something) and ADC?
2019-12-18T22:00:26 < jadew`> thardin, don't know, could be equally bad
2019-12-18T22:00:50 < jadew`> in a lab you want an instrument that's well filtered
2019-12-18T22:01:13 < thardin> I've hear hermes-lite is decent
2019-12-18T22:01:16 < thardin> heard
2019-12-18T22:01:27 < jadew`> the tektronix RSA is great, but it's RX only
2019-12-18T22:01:30 < jadew`> and 3k
2019-12-18T22:02:14 < thardin> cheatskate tip: you often don't need a mixer, especially for RX
2019-12-18T22:02:22 < thardin> just bandpass and rely on aliasing
2019-12-18T22:02:30 < Cracki> lol
2019-12-18T22:03:40 < Thorn> that only works if you can fit everything into a single nyquist band? (not necessarily the first one)
2019-12-18T22:05:19 < thardin> yes
2019-12-18T22:05:25 < thardin> you need an ADC with enough bandwidth of course
2019-12-18T22:05:37 < Cracki> aiui the mixer wouldn't help with that either. with that trick you have to shift your stuff if you want it contiguous
2019-12-18T22:05:41 < thardin> but that shouldn't be a huge issue if you just need 1 MHz or so
2019-12-18T22:06:00 < thardin> basically what happens is the ADC's sample-and-hold thingy becomes your mixer
2019-12-18T22:06:14 < thardin> sometimes this specific trick is mentioned in the datasheet of the ADC
2019-12-18T22:07:00 < thardin> I should be clearer: you need an ADC with high enough samplerate that you can design a practical bandpass filter for it
2019-12-18T22:07:13 < thardin> since a 1 MHz wide filter for 868 MHz would be a challenge
2019-12-18T22:07:39 < thardin> 30 MHz or so would be doable, and 60 Msps ADCs isn't unheard of
2019-12-18T22:07:47 < Cracki> ah
2019-12-18T22:08:00 < thardin> even 30 MHz might be too pessimistic
2019-12-18T22:08:00 < aandrew> Thorn: 868MHz; is that within a DVB-T card's natural spectrum?
2019-12-18T22:08:11 < aandrew> oh you want TX as well
2019-12-18T22:08:17 < aandrew> LimeSDR Mini is pretty cheap, $300
2019-12-18T22:09:08 < Thorn> I got it when it was a kickstarter for less than that, $200something
2019-12-18T22:09:31 < aandrew> I wonder if you can find/make a SAW filter for 868. that's probably your best bet for getting a narrow band filter
2019-12-18T22:09:39 < Thorn> it heats up like a clothes iron
2019-12-18T22:09:54 < aandrew> Thorn: limesdrmini? yeah it gets warm, but so do my nRF51822 dongles
2019-12-18T22:10:05 < aandrew> nRF52840 doesn't get nearly as warm but those nRF51s get right toasty
2019-12-18T22:11:01 < aandrew> yep there are 868mhz saw filters
2019-12-18T22:11:15 < aandrew> https://www.mouser.com/datasheet/2/136/B3716-65734.pdf
2019-12-18T22:11:52 < aandrew> 40dB below 838 and above 893
2019-12-18T22:12:07 < aandrew> that's pretty narrow
2019-12-18T22:12:52 < thardin> looks about 20 MHz wide?
2019-12-18T22:15:40 < aandrew> yep
2019-12-18T22:16:11 < qyx> I would still go into all-in-one rf frontend if it is available
2019-12-18T22:16:37 < qyx> also
2019-12-18T22:16:54 < qyx> you can still buy a NI vector signal gen/sdr
2019-12-18T22:19:10 < emeb> wrt IF subsampling. works great if your ADC has a narrow-enough sampling window. Not all do though.
2019-12-18T22:20:01 < emeb> I did a system a few years ago where the ADC ran at 245MHz but the signal was at 2.1GHz. Needed a special high speed sample/hold for that in front of the ADC.
2019-12-18T22:20:24 < aandrew> emeb: if you're doing IF subsampling your still need the analog bandwidth in the ADC
2019-12-18T22:20:53 < emeb> aandrew: naturally. nyquist still holds.
2019-12-18T22:21:07 < aandrew> I originally wanted to do 2.4GHz direct conversion but quicly realized I'd need an ADC with insane analog bandwidth
2019-12-18T22:21:11 < aandrew> so back to IF :-)
2019-12-18T22:21:34 < emeb> aandrew: what was the bandwidth of the signal tho?
2019-12-18T22:22:15 < aandrew> emeb: well this is for what I'd talked about earlier
2019-12-18T22:22:23 < aandrew> capturing the entire 80MHz ISM band at 2400MHz
2019-12-18T22:22:51 < aandrew> from that point, downconverting each 1MHz across that 80
2019-12-18T22:22:55 < aandrew> and looking for GFSK
2019-12-18T22:23:05 < emeb> ah. so you'd need at least 160MSPS plus a good sample/hold to get it all.
2019-12-18T22:23:18 < emeb> that's an expensive front end.
2019-12-18T22:23:20 < aandrew> yes
2019-12-18T22:23:36 < aandrew> 200-250Msps is not hard nor particuarly expensive
2019-12-18T22:23:42 < aandrew> but the frontend was pricey
2019-12-18T22:24:05 < aandrew> so now I'm looking at the same sampling rate but a much more comfortable ~200MHz analog frontend
2019-12-18T22:24:27 < aandrew> ~500ns s/h
2019-12-18T22:24:34 < aandrew> er no
2019-12-18T22:24:47 < aandrew> 5ns
2019-12-18T22:25:28 < emeb> doing a DDC in FPGA?
2019-12-18T22:25:35 < aandrew> yes
2019-12-18T22:25:40 < aandrew> 80 of them
2019-12-18T22:25:59 < emeb> fun! big part?
2019-12-18T22:26:22 < aandrew> TBD
2019-12-18T22:26:25 < aandrew> let me get one going first :-)
2019-12-18T22:26:31 < aandrew> little steps
2019-12-18T22:27:23 < emeb> I've got a fun SDR system running in a low-end Zynq part. 80MSPS 14-bit ADC into a tuner + CIC + FIR DDC.
2019-12-18T22:27:54 < emeb> dumps the decimated samples into a FIFO and the ARM pulls them out to do the demodulation in software.
2019-12-18T22:28:26 < aandrew> yes that is going to be my first step as well
2019-12-18T22:28:32 < emeb> then spews audio into an I2S codec.
2019-12-18T22:28:42 < aandrew> get it into a computer so I can play in software and figure it out, then work on doing it in logic
2019-12-18T22:29:23 < emeb> sounds cool.
2019-12-18T22:29:42 < aandrew> it'll be a learning experience for sure
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2019-12-18T22:32:20 < emeb> If you're doing 80 channels tuning / decimation simultaneously you should consider an FFT-based transmux structure.
2019-12-18T22:33:04 < emeb> polyphase FIR filter into an FFT. I've done these in the past and they are pretty efficient for multichannel decimation.
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2019-12-18T22:34:21 < Thorn> how much is a 80 MSPS, 14 bit adc in small qty? $100+?
2019-12-18T22:35:07 < emeb> Thorn: I found a graymarket source for them on e-bay. $11ea
2019-12-18T22:35:53 < Thorn> which part#
2019-12-18T22:35:55 < emeb> http://ebrombaugh.studionebula.com/radio/rxadc14/index.html
2019-12-18T22:36:02 < emeb> ADC14C105
2019-12-18T22:37:06 < Thorn> ru.mouser wants $112.74/pc for them qty 1
2019-12-18T22:37:18 < emeb> yeah - full price they're not cheap
2019-12-18T22:37:59 < emeb> I bought like 10pcs while I could, but that was a few years ago. Looks like the source has dried up now.
2019-12-18T22:38:36 < Thorn> looks like $60-$70 min
2019-12-18T22:43:53 < bvernoux> emeb, those ADC are crazy expensive ;)
2019-12-18T22:44:14 < emeb> bvernoux: yep, but they work great!
2019-12-18T22:44:20 < jly> special parts
2019-12-18T22:44:29 < bvernoux> LPC4370 is not far even if limited to 12bits and cost 4x less with very good MCUs (even if it is a bit old now)
2019-12-18T22:44:47 < jly> here i am bitching about muh AKM audio adc/dacs
2019-12-18T22:44:54 < bvernoux> it is a shame that today 12 or 14bits ADC are always > 20USD/unit ...
2019-12-18T22:45:28 < emeb> bvernoux: yeah - that's the part used in the old airspy, right?
2019-12-18T22:45:35 < bvernoux> yes
2019-12-18T22:45:51 < bvernoux> even today there is nothing comparable for the price with such high perf 12bits ADC
2019-12-18T22:46:12 < bvernoux> only drawback is the MCU is not fast enough to use 80MSPS 12bits ADC....
2019-12-18T22:46:12 < emeb> this is the ebay seller I got those ADCs from ~2yrs ago -> https://www.ebay.com/usr/tevatronix
2019-12-18T22:46:44 < bvernoux> I dream of an update of the LPC4370 with something modern like a CortexM7@400MHz or more ;)
2019-12-18T22:46:57 < emeb> That would be nice.
2019-12-18T22:47:08 < bvernoux> it will be a game changer in lot of area especially with the integrated 12bits ADC ...
2019-12-18T22:48:04 < emeb> would be really nice if there was a nicely configurable tuner/decimator in the path too.
2019-12-18T22:48:09 < bvernoux> yes
2019-12-18T22:48:54 < bvernoux> main issue in all FPGA or even MCU is they always have slow ADC
2019-12-18T22:49:12 < bvernoux> LPC4370 was and is always the only one
2019-12-18T22:49:20 < bvernoux> I have tracked it during months/years ;)
2019-12-18T22:49:34 < bvernoux> and it was a real pain to program it with the DMA
2019-12-18T22:49:39 < emeb> I'll bet
2019-12-18T22:49:47 < bvernoux> NXP documentation suxx so hard
2019-12-18T22:50:15 < bvernoux> I do not even speak about their libraries they are buggy and so big with awfull API ...
2019-12-18T22:50:16 < emeb> Xilinx has new FPGA SoCs with RF ADCs/DACs that run ~4GSPS, but they're super expensive.
2019-12-18T22:50:30 < jly> bvernoux: i have dreams of this irc channel
2019-12-18T22:50:30 < emeb> But it would be fun to play with those.
2019-12-18T22:50:30 < bvernoux> Yes they are crazy expensive
2019-12-18T22:50:57 < emeb> And also Analog Devices is suing them for patent infringement. :P
2019-12-18T22:51:13 < bvernoux> AD and patent trolls ;)
2019-12-18T22:51:16 < bvernoux> what a shame
2019-12-18T22:51:30 < bvernoux> those patent are like for the Iphone patent about round border ...
2019-12-18T22:52:04 < jly> analog disasters
2019-12-18T22:52:59 < bvernoux> anyway the future is on RISC-V ;)
2019-12-18T22:53:08 < bvernoux> but it is too early need to wait a bit
2019-12-18T22:53:19 < bvernoux> ARM is lagging like Intel ;)
2019-12-18T22:53:37 < bvernoux> we need something cheap, agile and fast
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2019-12-18T22:53:47 < tcth> not this shit again, bvernoux
2019-12-18T22:54:37 < bvernoux> tcth, ??
2019-12-18T22:55:26 < jly> tcth: clothes off RIGHT NOW.
2019-12-18T22:56:27 < Steffanx> Sexy time?
2019-12-18T22:57:19 < qyx> meh riscv
2019-12-18T22:57:27 < jly> You know, tct, I been watchin' you. And I know you been watchin' me. You watch me, I know.
2019-12-18T22:59:59 < bvernoux> Anyway a good things is to support https://www.crowdsupply.com/envox/eez-bb3
2019-12-18T23:00:14 < bvernoux> I have bought one full it is fully open hardware and open firmware
2019-12-18T23:00:26 < bvernoux> They really need more support
2019-12-18T23:01:12 < bvernoux> It is a shame there is only 119backers for that amazing HW/SW Power Supply+++
2019-12-18T23:02:37 < aandrew> the bb3 does look like a pretty decent project, I just have no need for it (and tbh it's kind of pricey for a maker power supply
2019-12-18T23:03:42 < aandrew> emeb: re: FFT transmux: basically select the FFT bins so you have an integer number of bins for each channel? e.g. 240 or 320 bins type of thing?
2019-12-18T23:03:53 < aandrew> Thorn: dual is about $80 I think
2019-12-18T23:04:44 < emeb> aandrew: ideally 1 bin/channel.
2019-12-18T23:05:16 < aandrew> emeb: I was thinking there might not be enough resolution there but I'm mis-thinking the concept
2019-12-18T23:06:10 < Steffanx> is tcth alright? Do you know?
2019-12-18T23:06:12 < emeb> aandrew: here's harris' paper on it -> https://pdfs.semanticscholar.org/28f3/8afa6199fb7c950b59924833ec1f34144ecf.pdf
2019-12-18T23:07:09 < emeb> fig 12 shows the basic structure - essentially you run successive FFTs and every bin becomes a single sample for that channel.
2019-12-18T23:07:30 < aandrew> aha
2019-12-18T23:08:19 < emeb> so if you have 80 chls you'd need a 128 pt FFT and discard some.
2019-12-18T23:08:55 < emeb> but might still be more efficient than doing separate tune / decimate per chl
2019-12-18T23:10:35 < jly> Steffanx: nah not at all, sounds all fucked up
2019-12-18T23:10:56 < aandrew> emeb: interesting, that's a really slick way to break things up
2019-12-18T23:10:59 < jly> he's grown an extra consonant
2019-12-18T23:11:35 < aandrew> and you after all the decimation you could likely run the detector/slicer/packetizer in a pipeline rather than 1/ch
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2019-12-18T23:21:56 < Thorn> how do I know how many adc bits I need for an SDR btw? is it about the total noise of the rx path vs. some SNR figure required for a particular modulation?
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2019-12-18T23:29:52 < bvernoux> Thorn, main issue is not always how many bits are required ;)
2019-12-18T23:30:32 < bvernoux> The hard part is to have low noise everywhere and very good RF design ...
2019-12-18T23:31:14 < bvernoux> with of course the good filters for the target frequency ... after that even with 8bits ADC you can do miracle ...
2019-12-18T23:44:59 < emeb> aandrew: correct - makes for easy resource sharing.
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2019-12-19T00:16:12 < invzim> aren't most digital scopes 8 bit?
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2019-12-19T00:36:19 < thardin> 8-bit is enough for like.. 4096-QAM potentially
2019-12-19T00:36:54 < Thorn> why 14 bits then
2019-12-19T00:37:03 < thardin> because dynamic range is nice
2019-12-19T00:37:35 < thardin> if you have a bunch of QRM which is considerably stronger than your signal of interest
2019-12-19T00:38:04 < thardin> but if your filter is good enough then the need for dynamic range goes down
2019-12-19T00:38:50 < thardin> Thorn: look up Eb/N0
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2019-12-19T00:39:39 < thardin> if you have some idea what the noise spectral density is in the area you intend to receive then you can work out the necessary transmit power quite accurately
2019-12-19T00:40:06 < thardin> for some bit error rate (say 1e-6)
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2019-12-19T00:40:56 < thardin> this all depends highly on what you want to do
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2019-12-19T00:41:53 < thardin> you can deal with high noise density by sending more slowly
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2019-12-19T00:44:51 < thardin> I have one project idea based around transmitting extremely slowly. like a few millibits per second
2019-12-19T00:46:17 < Thorn> lora for submarines?
2019-12-19T00:47:19 < BrainDamage> that's called ELF
2019-12-19T00:47:53 < BrainDamage> the problem of subs is that salt water is pretty well dissipative
2019-12-19T00:48:04 < BrainDamage> so they have to lower the freq to lower the losses
2019-12-19T00:48:41 < thardin> I'm thinking sensor networks. you don't have too much data per day
2019-12-19T00:49:01 < thardin> sweden's submarine navy uses VLF
2019-12-19T00:49:21 < BrainDamage> https://twitter.com/vcdgf555/status/1205602551598469120
2019-12-19T00:49:24 < BrainDamage> related
2019-12-19T00:49:32 < thardin> which is why SAQ, the electromechanical VLF TX in varberg, only transmits twice per year
2019-12-19T00:49:47 < thardin> the rest of the year the antenna system is spoken for
2019-12-19T00:50:25 < BrainDamage> badass, does it have a giant motor as modulator?
2019-12-19T00:50:57 < thardin> pretty much
2019-12-19T00:51:09 < thardin> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alexanderson_alternator
2019-12-19T00:51:43 < thardin> the station in question: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/VLF_transmitter_Grimeton
2019-12-19T00:53:11 < thardin> I've tried to receive it a few times. no luck so far
2019-12-19T00:53:12 < BrainDamage> Thorn: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shannon%E2%80%93Hartley_theorem
2019-12-19T00:53:27 < BrainDamage> you can trade off error rate for bandwith
2019-12-19T00:53:33 < BrainDamage> for a fixed SNr
2019-12-19T00:53:38 < BrainDamage> that's what lora does
2019-12-19T00:53:50 < BrainDamage> also what gps does
2019-12-19T00:53:58 < BrainDamage> low bitrate so you can live with shitty snr
2019-12-19T00:54:03 < BrainDamage> space comms do too
2019-12-19T00:54:21 < thardin> lora does a bit of spread spectrum too
2019-12-19T00:54:52 < thardin> I think cdma would be better
2019-12-19T00:54:56 < BrainDamage> that's still part of the bill
2019-12-19T00:55:27 < BrainDamage> it's chirp spread spectrum fwiw
2019-12-19T00:55:34 < thardin> yep
2019-12-19T00:55:44 < qyx> and why do you compare css with cdma?
2019-12-19T00:55:54 < qyx> as css is basically a cdma with only few codes?
2019-12-19T00:56:00 < BrainDamage> OFDM, not CDMA
2019-12-19T00:56:40 < thardin> I *think* it kind of works out the same in the end. with cdma you can just put everything in the same band and have everyone transmit at the same time
2019-12-19T00:57:02 < thardin> whereas with css you have to separate everyone
2019-12-19T00:57:13 < thardin> not impossible, but more of a hassle
2019-12-19T00:57:15 < qyx> doesn't lora transmit in the same band too?
2019-12-19T00:57:32 < BrainDamage> cdma matrix scrambling requires orthogonal codes
2019-12-19T00:57:43 < qyx> I mean clients using different spreading factors
2019-12-19T00:57:51 < thardin> hmm
2019-12-19T00:58:04 < BrainDamage> while SS tecniques in general requires no correlation between the interference and the scrambing code
2019-12-19T00:58:22 < BrainDamage> cdma is a specific tecnique of SS where all the clients play nice together
2019-12-19T00:58:36 < BrainDamage> but an interference signal won't necessarily be
2019-12-19T00:59:19 < thardin> assuming the interferer knows what codes you're using
2019-12-19T00:59:39 < BrainDamage> no, that's the thing, the requirement for CDMA is just that the codes are orthogonal
2019-12-19T00:59:57 < BrainDamage> but you can make orthogonal codes that correlate somewhat well globally
2019-12-19T01:00:23 < BrainDamage> so a matrix that does cdma well, doesn't necessarily do SS vs a random interferer
2019-12-19T01:00:26 < BrainDamage> and viceversa
2019-12-19T01:00:38 < BrainDamage> you can ofc satisfy both conditions, but a stricter requirement
2019-12-19T01:01:04 < BrainDamage> it's a*
2019-12-19T01:01:58 < qyx> modulating with random sequences, are you able to demodulate the data?
2019-12-19T01:02:02 < qyx> I though yes
2019-12-19T01:02:14 < BrainDamage> 'yes' if you have the same sequence in the client
2019-12-19T01:02:18 < thardin> if you can sync them up, yes
2019-12-19T01:02:21 < BrainDamage> you also have a syncronization problem
2019-12-19T01:02:29 < qyx> yeah
2019-12-19T01:02:42 < qyx> and now, modulating two streams of data using random sequences
2019-12-19T01:02:51 < qyx> are you able to do the same?
2019-12-19T01:02:57 < BrainDamage> I have a shitty PoC using AES to generate the sequence
2019-12-19T01:03:02 < thardin> with enough processing power you can sync them up. knowing roughly where in the random sequence the TX is helps
2019-12-19T01:03:17 < BrainDamage> ^
2019-12-19T01:03:19 < qyx> what does the orthogonality requirement bring you?
2019-12-19T01:03:34 < qyx> and minimal cross-correlation
2019-12-19T01:03:38 < BrainDamage> that multiple signals on the same spectrum cancel completely
2019-12-19T01:04:02 < qyx> does they have to?
2019-12-19T01:04:06 < thardin> do they have to be perfectly aligned in the frequency plane?
2019-12-19T01:04:07 < BrainDamage> after integration, the resulting signal is 0
2019-12-19T01:04:25 < BrainDamage> no, ofc the leftover gives you leftover integrated power
2019-12-19T01:04:29 < BrainDamage> but it's minimal
2019-12-19T01:04:32 < thardin> right
2019-12-19T01:05:18 < BrainDamage> think it like this: orig sequence encoded xor scrambling = thinn high amp spectrum
2019-12-19T01:05:41 < BrainDamage> local interference narrow in freq xor scrambling = noise spreaded over the whole spectrum
2019-12-19T01:06:00 < thardin> yeah. you're correlating with your signal, and decorrelating the noise
2019-12-19T01:06:06 < BrainDamage> frequency hopping achieves the same result by lingering in a freq bin for small time
2019-12-19T01:06:26 < qyx> so for a sufficieltny long spreading sequence generated by a, lets say, cryptographic-quality RNG
2019-12-19T01:06:31 < qyx> it should be always ~somewhat trie
2019-12-19T01:06:33 < qyx> true
2019-12-19T01:07:09 < BrainDamage> what matters is the length of the loop of the spreading sequence vs the bitrate
2019-12-19T01:07:15 < BrainDamage> that gives you the spreading factor
2019-12-19T01:07:26 < qyx> yeah
2019-12-19T01:07:33 < BrainDamage> and what's defined as 'code gain'
2019-12-19T01:09:14 < BrainDamage> my shitty radio PoC uses a combination of OFDM with BoC
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2019-12-19T01:09:50 < BrainDamage> here's a neat trick: cooley-tuckey fft is most optimized when FFT bins are power of 2
2019-12-19T01:10:02 < BrainDamage> and AES blocks are power of twos as well
2019-12-19T01:10:19 < BrainDamage> so directly map bits of AES blocks to bits of the OFDM carrier
2019-12-19T01:10:27 < mawk> nice
2019-12-19T01:10:46 < BrainDamage> as inputs of the spreading sequence per channel
2019-12-19T01:10:59 < BrainDamage> since AES has uniformity requirements on each bit, this works well
2019-12-19T01:11:14 < BrainDamage> and BOC lets me have an overall uniform spectrum
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2019-12-19T01:12:34 < BrainDamage> also, fwiw, I'm drunk as shit
2019-12-19T01:14:20 < thardin> that sounds a bit like how I imagined demodulation works when I first started thinking about it
2019-12-19T01:14:27 < thardin> "an FFT should work, right?"
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2019-12-19T01:14:50 < thardin> but there's lots of finer points when it comes to modems
2019-12-19T01:14:52 < BrainDamage> IFFT is how you generate the carriers for OFDM
2019-12-19T01:15:20 < thardin> like tracking to keep drift at bay
2019-12-19T01:15:31 < thardin> finding the signal to begin with
2019-12-19T01:15:33 < BrainDamage> yeah, you still need to keep sliding window
2019-12-19T01:16:07 < specing> BrainDamage: don't get drunk, you'll get brain damage
2019-12-19T01:16:10 < BrainDamage> in my case I use GCM to generate the sequence, so it boils to brute forcing the counter value
2019-12-19T01:16:18 < BrainDamage> given a good enough estimate
2019-12-19T01:16:36 < BrainDamage> fortunately computers have AES hw units so I can just try again
2019-12-19T01:16:44 < BrainDamage> specing: only very very long term
2019-12-19T01:17:15 < BrainDamage> dendrite damage is something that accumulates over decades
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2019-12-19T01:48:53 < aandrew> emeb: wow that ADC14C105 has 1GHz input bandwidth?! crazy
2019-12-19T01:51:35 < emeb> aandrew: yep and it's got pretty good aperture jitter too - 0.1ps
2019-12-19T01:52:57 < emeb> but ENOB is only 11-12 bits, so that could be better.
2019-12-19T01:53:28 < aandrew> $65 in onesies too, not bad pricewise
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2019-12-19T01:54:05 < aandrew> funny that they claim 14b but then only 11-12b enob
2019-12-19T01:54:35 < aandrew> although I guess with some integration and tradeoff you could maybe get to 13 bits
2019-12-19T01:54:46 < emeb> I'm just doing a direct sampling HF receiver (0-40MHz) with it. Works fine for that - noise floor is way below the HF band noise with the antenna I use.
2019-12-19T01:54:58 < aandrew> straight digitla output too, odd
2019-12-19T01:55:18 < emeb> Oh?
2019-12-19T01:55:42 < aandrew> figure that would bring the noise up compared to lvds or jesdwhatever
2019-12-19T01:56:03 < emeb> Ah. Yeah - not differential or serial.
2019-12-19T01:56:29 < aandrew> the ADCs I'm using on the optical tracker aren't super fast (15msps) but have source-sync ddr serial output
2019-12-19T01:56:50 < emeb> I run it through a 2k decimator that picks up about 5 bits of SNR, so my DDC output is full 16 bits. That seems to work well.
2019-12-19T01:56:56 < aandrew> those are 16-bit and have an 18-bit cousin if we wanted to really try to do it
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2019-12-19T03:16:51 < aandrew> emeb_mac: your 2k decimator is really an integrator+decimator?
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2019-12-19T03:26:02 < emeb_mac> aandrew: yes - a 1/512 CIC followed by a 1/4 FIR
2019-12-19T03:26:39 < emeb_mac> both are integration operations, so it picks up 5.5 bits of SNR
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2019-12-19T03:43:49 < aandrew> right
2019-12-19T03:44:06 < aandrew> man
2019-12-19T03:44:17 < aandrew> I can never find christmas presents for my kids
2019-12-19T03:44:23 < aandrew> the girl's easy. she just wants records
2019-12-19T03:44:52 < aandrew> but the boys... I've raised them so they build stuff with whatever they have around, and use their laptops to learn. all the toys are bullshit and expensive
2019-12-19T03:45:11 < aandrew> but wife wants to know what to get them. fuck if I know, get them some raw material to work with
2019-12-19T03:45:24 < aandrew> foam board, glue, paint that kind of stuff. she thinks Im crazy
2019-12-19T03:46:41 < specing> aandrew: a bunch of stm32 discoveries?
2019-12-19T03:47:02 < aandrew> the 7yo is kind of showing some interest in programming. the 10yo not so much
2019-12-19T03:47:26 < aandrew> trying to get them excited with some arduinos and servos/leds because the light and kinetic stuff grabs their interest a lot easier
2019-12-19T03:47:32 < aandrew> and then try to slide in some simple programming
2019-12-19T03:48:30 < specing> what about the girls?
2019-12-19T03:48:33 < specing> no programming?
2019-12-19T03:48:49 < aandrew> my older daughter is a firefighter. the younger one is not at all interested
2019-12-19T03:48:55 < aandrew> she wants to do music and play records all day long
2019-12-19T03:56:26 < emeb_mac> best xmas present dad ever got me - a toolbox full of tools
2019-12-19T03:56:35 < emeb_mac> I still have most of them.
2019-12-19T03:57:02 < emeb_mac> probably so I'd leave his toolbox alone. :)
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2019-12-19T04:08:01 < specing> :)
2019-12-19T04:08:15 < specing> I think best is something useful and something that you'd never buy yourself
2019-12-19T04:08:27 < specing> kinda the opposite to what most people give as presents
2019-12-19T04:09:10 < specing> note that I do not believe in this festive charade, the only day to celebrate on is the winter solstice (21 december)
2019-12-19T04:09:18 < jadew`> my son loves tools too
2019-12-19T04:09:47 < jadew`> when I bought his first multimeter he slept with it for at least a week
2019-12-19T04:09:53 < specing> lol
2019-12-19T04:10:06 < jadew`> wish I got him a nicer one, but I thought he'd break it
2019-12-19T04:10:17 < jadew`> turns out he loved it and really took care of it
2019-12-19T04:10:49 < jadew`> same with the tools, he takes really good care of them
2019-12-19T04:11:27 < jadew`> but this year I don't know what to get him
2019-12-19T04:12:11 < specing> a scope? :)
2019-12-19T04:12:36 < jadew`> he has to learn electronics first, then he can have my old one :)
2019-12-19T04:12:49 < BrainDamage> lego
2019-12-19T04:13:10 < jadew`> I was just threatening him that I'll throw his box of legos away
2019-12-19T04:13:32 < jadew`> he spilled them all on the floor then managed to break a plate right on top of them
2019-12-19T04:13:54 < jadew`> and I'm not sure what that plate was made of, but it got pulverized
2019-12-19T04:14:02 < specing> now you know it
2019-12-19T04:14:05 < jadew`> so there's glass all over them (been like that for a couple of days)
2019-12-19T04:14:12 < specing> get him a set of steel plates lol
2019-12-19T04:14:25 < specing> like in school canteens
2019-12-19T04:14:28 < jadew`> I refused to clean them, I said I'll throw them out, and his mom said she'll do it
2019-12-19T04:14:30 < jadew`> and she didn't
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2019-12-19T04:15:03 < jadew`> (there are several hundred pieces to clean)
2019-12-19T04:15:12 < jadew`> specing, that was my plate :P
2019-12-19T04:15:52 < jadew`> I left it in the living room when I was done, so it was kind of my fault too
2019-12-19T04:18:28 < jadew`> I actually know what he wants, but I don't know if I want to set this precedent
2019-12-19T04:18:40 < jadew`> he wants me to buy some features in a game
2019-12-19T04:18:53 < specing> nopenopenope
2019-12-19T04:19:12 < specing> tell him to program them
2019-12-19T04:19:24 < specing> with IDA, if necessary :P
2019-12-19T04:19:28 < jadew`> heh
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2019-12-19T05:32:39 < englishman> how did thorn get a cybertruck https://www.instagram.com/p/B6Oo67wiaPg/
2019-12-19T05:32:48 < englishman> moneyed oligarchs
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2019-12-19T09:03:13 < Steffanx> papier-mâché?
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2019-12-19T09:10:58 < qyx> H7 has such high power draw per MHz they are not even saying it on the front page in the DS
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2019-12-19T09:13:21 < qyx> 110mA at 400MHz with all periph disabled, thats 275uA/MHz
2019-12-19T09:13:47 < qyx> (max.)
2019-12-19T09:14:43 < drzacek> hello there
2019-12-19T09:14:49 < drzacek> 110mA doesn't sound so bad
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2019-12-19T09:45:18 < thardin> how slow can it run?
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2019-12-19T10:05:27 < qyx> compared to ~50uA/MHz.. but considering it is M7, probably ok
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2019-12-19T10:14:05 < thardin> you get into quadratic terms quickly above a few hundred MHz I suspect
2019-12-19T10:14:09 < jpa-> it's quite easy to get it up to 200mA with some peripherals & 480MHz
2019-12-19T10:14:24 < thardin> like, you're looking at µA/(MHz²)
2019-12-19T10:14:41 < qyx> if they state it is uA/MHz, it is uA/MHz
2019-12-19T10:14:45 < qyx> and the table corresponds
2019-12-19T10:15:19 < qyx> also of course I am comparing peripherals off and comparable freq
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2019-12-19T10:59:05 < zapb_> Does someone know a tool to identify ICs based on pin description ("Give me all ICs where pin X is Y")
2019-12-19T10:59:07 < zapb_> ?
2019-12-19T11:01:13 < dongs> yeah its called your head
2019-12-19T11:01:41 < dongs> generally ive been pretty successful figuring out a pin or two (like gnd/xtal/wahtever) and googling that with a package type
2019-12-19T11:02:07 < qyx> you can search your cad database if you want, but generally I do what dongs says
2019-12-19T11:04:11 < dongs> hmm i cant figure out how all vias in this altidumb reference board have rings on all layers
2019-12-19T11:04:18 < dongs> but in my board, they only have rings on top/bottom
2019-12-19T11:04:29 < dongs> where the fuck is a setting fotr that
2019-12-19T11:04:57 < qyx> in a hidden python config file
2019-12-19T11:05:02 < dongs> yea no
2019-12-19T11:06:04 < zapb_> dongs: okay, good to know ;)
2019-12-19T11:06:43 < zapb_> I think without manufacturer this is not that easy
2019-12-19T11:06:58 < dongs> package names are universal-ish
2019-12-19T11:07:02 < dongs> so are pin names.
2019-12-19T11:07:18 < dongs> datasheets unless random chink shit are usually pretty well indexed.
2019-12-19T11:08:34 < zapb_> I know but there a hundreds of ICs with a universal package like QFP
2019-12-19T11:09:37 < dongs> but not with pin X being some unique feature
2019-12-19T11:10:06 < dongs> i mean if you wanna RE shit you gotta learn how to search stuff.
2019-12-19T11:12:39 < zapb_> dongs: sure, just wanted to know if there is a tool that does a lookup for me
2019-12-19T11:13:02 < zapb_> thought about KiCad library (I know that the library is far from being complete)
2019-12-19T11:14:04 < dongs> kikecad library just has make:r shit in it
2019-12-19T11:14:09 < dongs> good luck finding anything professional in there
2019-12-19T11:17:22 < zapb_> dongs: whatever, replace KiCad library with an arbitrary database or combination of data sources... ;)
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2019-12-19T11:57:35 < qyx> dongs: I was surprised how many different and non-make:r things kicad library has
2019-12-19T11:57:53 < tcth_> qyx, can you list some of them?
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2019-12-19T11:58:13 < jadew`> I find the kicad library kind of lacking
2019-12-19T11:58:36 < jadew`> other than capacitors, resistors and some MCUs I have to make the all the symbols myself
2019-12-19T12:00:40 < jadew`> also, not all symbols are associated with a given package
2019-12-19T12:01:13 < jadew`> but I guess you could go by the filters they have for packages
2019-12-19T12:02:59 < qyx> the whole can interface group is definitely not make:r shit
2019-12-19T12:03:14 < qyx> and it contains most of the commonly used stuff
2019-12-19T12:04:56 < thardin> Patch Welcome
2019-12-19T12:06:03 < jadew`> lol thardin
2019-12-19T12:06:35 < jadew`> sometimes I do find some random thing that I wouldn't have thought it would be there
2019-12-19T12:07:31 < tcth> I have that same thing when I review code of other people
2019-12-19T12:09:41 < Steffanx> Does it take more than 3 minutes to make a footprint in kicad?
2019-12-19T12:10:12 < tcth> yes
2019-12-19T12:10:31 < tcth> unless you´re watching under the dome
2019-12-19T12:11:41 < jadew`> tcth, hasn't that show been canceled?
2019-12-19T12:12:12 < tcth> yes it has been cancelled
2019-12-19T12:14:11 < jadew`> so why are you walking into that trap?
2019-12-19T12:14:33 < tcth> I am not, I am referring to past experiences
2019-12-19T12:14:41 < tcth> to which both using KiCAD and watching under the dome count
2019-12-19T12:14:42 < jadew`> ah, good
2019-12-19T12:14:55 < jadew`> I need to find a good show
2019-12-19T12:15:03 < tcth> currently watching ´the expanse´
2019-12-19T12:15:12 < tcth> what kind of stuff do you like, jadew` ?
2019-12-19T12:15:20 < jadew`> I started watching some TV shows that I like with my wife and now I have to wait for her to see the next episode
2019-12-19T12:15:51 < jadew`> all I have left is family guy, rick and morty and rewatching some of my older fav. TV shows
2019-12-19T12:16:13 < dongs> lol fucking ubnt cloned audience https://www.eurodk.com/en/products/unifi-ac-wave2/ubiquiti-uap-flexhd
2019-12-19T12:16:15 < tcth> jadew`, haha, rookie mistake
2019-12-19T12:17:23 < jadew`> yeah...
2019-12-19T12:18:15 < jadew`> dongs, what's that a clone of?
2019-12-19T12:18:28 < dongs> https://mikrotik.com/product/audience
2019-12-19T12:18:29 < dongs> this
2019-12-19T12:18:31 < dongs> inferior clone tho
2019-12-19T12:18:33 < dongs> cuz looks ugly
2019-12-19T12:18:50 < dongs> and audience has 3 radios
2019-12-19T12:18:54 < dongs> only 2 in that unifi shit
2019-12-19T12:19:06 < jadew`> price is the same
2019-12-19T12:19:17 < dongs> right
2019-12-19T12:19:21 < tcth> jadew`, did you check out ´the expanse´ and ´dark matter´?
2019-12-19T12:19:37 < dongs> https://www.eurodk.com/en/products/mt-audience/mikrotik-audience-rbd25g-5hpacqd2hpnd audience is cheper retial tho
2019-12-19T12:19:44 < jadew`> tcth, I am watching the expanse, but I don't remember which season I'm at, I'll have to resume
2019-12-19T12:19:50 < jadew`> haven't seen dark matters, will check it out
2019-12-19T12:19:52 < dongs> anyway mine works and my pal got 2 as well, also works
2019-12-19T12:19:52 < jadew`> thanks
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2019-12-19T12:20:14 < tcth> jadew`, I just rewatch a season from s01e01 every time there is a new season out - no matter what
2019-12-19T12:20:23 < jadew`> dongs, the round one looks more easier to clean
2019-12-19T12:20:38 < dongs> surely a problem for your wife and not you
2019-12-19T12:20:40 < dongs> why would you care
2019-12-19T12:20:44 < jadew`> lol
2019-12-19T12:21:13 < jadew`> tcth, not a bad idea
2019-12-19T12:21:30 < tcth> jadew`, Steffanx tends to hate me for that
2019-12-19T12:21:41 < Cracki> >cleaning access points
2019-12-19T12:21:46 < jadew`> I'll rewatch ep1 and ep-1 of every season
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2019-12-19T12:22:16 < jadew`> Cracki, yeah, I guess I never clean mine
2019-12-19T12:22:39 < jadew`> but I do have to reach it from time to time to quickly reboot it, because it stops accepting wireless clients
2019-12-19T12:22:43 < Cracki> men use pressure washers or compressed air
2019-12-19T12:22:53 < Steffanx> I dont recall I ever hated you for that mr tcth
2019-12-19T12:22:56 < tcth> I just let my gf blow on it really hard
2019-12-19T12:22:57 < jadew`> not sure what happens, but seems to only be a thing when I want to connect to it with the TV
2019-12-19T12:23:07 < Steffanx> Have a ', mr tcth
2019-12-19T12:23:17 < tcth> Steffanx, the correct answer would have been ´I dont recall I ever hated you for anything / at all´
2019-12-19T12:23:30 < jadew`> Steffanx, that's just a clickbait title: "Steffanx, hates me for this simple trick."
2019-12-19T12:23:32 < Steffanx> No, because that would be a lie
2019-12-19T12:23:41 < tcth> Steffanx, the weather thing?
2019-12-19T12:23:46 < Steffanx> Mr tcth
2019-12-19T12:23:47 < Steffanx> Hah
2019-12-19T12:25:59 < jadew`> any ideas where I can get some customized ziplock bags in not-100000000 qty?
2019-12-19T12:27:13 < Cracki> screen printed or more complex customization?
2019-12-19T12:27:24 < jadew`> screen printed I guess
2019-12-19T12:27:54 < Cracki> (or any print really, no clue what's efficient these days)
2019-12-19T12:28:24 < Cracki> alibaba always has your back :>
2019-12-19T12:28:29 < jadew`> well, I think the ones that specialize in this have a machine that prints on rolls of these bags
2019-12-19T12:28:32 < jadew`> and then they cut them
2019-12-19T12:28:45 < jadew`> a local shop would probably just get the tiny bags pre-cut and then print on them
2019-12-19T12:28:49 < jadew`> which would cost more
2019-12-19T12:29:02 < jadew`> alibaba seems to only want to ship via DHL
2019-12-19T12:29:23 < jadew`> and tbh, any method of shipping from china will be more expensive than I think these bags would be
2019-12-19T12:29:42 < jadew`> not sure if it's worth obsessing over a couple of bucks tho...
2019-12-19T12:29:44 < jadew`> hmm
2019-12-19T12:29:58 < jadew`> I guess I'll buy from anyway
2019-12-19T12:30:38 < Cracki> https://www.aliexpress.com/item/10000000692946.html
2019-12-19T12:30:46 < Cracki> looks compact enough
2019-12-19T12:31:09 < Cracki> tho only one mention of custom printed
2019-12-19T12:31:24 < jadew`> Sorry, the page you requested can not be found:(
2019-12-19T12:31:31 < Cracki> oh, geolock
2019-12-19T12:31:53 < Cracki> 4-32 eur/100pc
2019-12-19T12:32:03 < Cracki> free ship
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2019-12-19T12:32:22 < Cracki> don't look antistatic tho, just clear plastic
2019-12-19T12:32:27 < Cracki> you'd want antistatic and whatnot, eh?
2019-12-19T12:32:37 < jadew`> no, it's for a connector
2019-12-19T12:34:28 < Cracki> vhat is zhis https://www.romcarbon.com/
2019-12-19T12:35:00 < jadew`> air filter factory
2019-12-19T12:35:02 < Cracki> winpack.ro
2019-12-19T12:35:12 < Cracki> >WINPACK INDUSTRY LLC, sole zipper bags producer in Romania, manufactures and markets sanitary approved reclosable 100% virgin low density ...
2019-12-19T12:35:36 < jadew`> oh, they must do more than that
2019-12-19T12:36:18 < jadew`> they seem too pro for me
2019-12-19T12:36:54 < Cracki> give them a call, you'd be surprised
2019-12-19T12:37:21 < jadew`> they don't even have a .ro website, it's .com
2019-12-19T12:37:22 < Cracki> good presentation doesn't mean they would snub their noses at smallish customers
2019-12-19T12:37:38 < Cracki> Strada Transilvaniei, nr. 132, 120012, BUZĂU Tel: (+40) 238 711 155
2019-12-19T12:37:58 < Cracki> WORKING POINT BUCHAREST Barbu Văcărescu Boulevard, nr.164A, Office Building - C3, et. 3, Bucharest Tel: (+40) 311 065 080
2019-12-19T12:39:19 < jadew`> yeah, I'll give them a call
2019-12-19T12:39:22 < jadew`> thanks for finding this
2019-12-19T12:39:40 < Cracki> figured local business is quicker and less overhead :P
2019-12-19T12:39:56 < jadew`> yeah
2019-12-19T12:40:06 < jadew`> I actually looked for local businesses too, but couldn't find them
2019-12-19T12:40:15 < jadew`> I only found retail shops for ziplock bags
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2019-12-19T12:42:23 < Cracki> there must be stamps with ink that sticks to plastic bags so you could get clear bags and stamp them yourself right when packing
2019-12-19T12:42:50 < jadew`> yeah, but I doubt that ink will last
2019-12-19T12:43:15 < jadew`> I wanted to do that for boxes too, but I decided to just print a label and stick it to the side of the box
2019-12-19T12:43:17 < Cracki> bought some plastic boxes yesterday... they're coated with some kind of wax... they prolly do that to bags too to keep them from sticking, but that could interfere with any printing "after the fact"
2019-12-19T12:44:18 < Cracki> cardboard boxes? my boss has his own boxes for individual modules. they look very nice, glossy finish, all white. can't be a terribly large quantity, maybe hundreds.
2019-12-19T12:45:15 < jadew`> yeah, same qty here, but I didn't get them personalized, I just found something that works
2019-12-19T12:45:19 < jadew`> I have several sizes
2019-12-19T12:46:18 < jadew`> the good thing is the guys selling them also have jiffy bags of the appropriate size
2019-12-19T12:46:24 < jadew`> so they fit nicely
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2019-12-19T13:03:53 < tcth> just upgraded from C++17 to C++20
2019-12-19T13:03:55 < tcth> </blog>
2019-12-19T13:33:30 < Steffanx> It's not even 2020 yet
2019-12-19T13:35:48 < jadew`> they're getting the work done upfront
2019-12-19T13:36:31 < jadew`> then they can just chill, when everyone else is working on their 2020 version
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2019-12-19T13:42:05 < englishman> MSP4302020
2019-12-19T13:43:38 < Thorn> tcth: which c++20 features are you going to use?
2019-12-19T13:44:55 < tcth> Thorn, concepts
2019-12-19T13:45:22 < tcth> Thorn, and ranges of course :p
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2019-12-19T13:59:30 < zyp> I'm more interested in coroutines
2019-12-19T14:00:06 < zyp> and modules
2019-12-19T14:01:22 < jadew`> hah, they borrowed that from javascript lol
2019-12-19T14:01:55 < jadew`> good feature tho
2019-12-19T14:02:03 < jadew`> they're called generators in js
2019-12-19T14:03:12 < zyp> as far as I'm concerned, generators and coroutines are much the same, but used in different ways (python has both)
2019-12-19T14:03:42 < jadew`> I haven't used them so far, so I'm not familiar with the subtleties
2019-12-19T14:03:48 < tcth> I also think it´s hard to say that something like that was taken/stolen/borrowed from another language as they are in my opinion generic CS concepts/ideas
2019-12-19T14:03:52 < dongs> why teh fuck would anything get borrowed from javashitscript
2019-12-19T14:04:01 < jadew`> they do sound useful tho
2019-12-19T14:04:18 < jadew`> dongs, it's a way of avoiding writing OOP when all you need is a function
2019-12-19T14:05:54 < jadew`> tcth, didn't know they were generic CS concepts, I haven't met them until js
2019-12-19T14:06:06 < jadew`> does python also have promises?
2019-12-19T14:06:27 < jadew`> because it seems the C++ implementation is using promises too, just like JS
2019-12-19T14:08:06 < zyp> they are called futures, but I'm not sure what's different apart from the name
2019-12-19T14:09:19 < jadew`> that jogged my memory, I've read about them way way before they made their way into JS
2019-12-19T14:09:36 < jadew`> but I ignored them
2019-12-19T14:10:56 < jadew`> are coroutines available in VS yet?
2019-12-19T14:11:08 < zyp> the difference between generators and coroutines in python is that the former is a function that can return more than one value, on demand, the latter are async functions that returns a future
2019-12-19T14:11:28 < jadew`> ah ha!
2019-12-19T14:11:38 < zyp> i.e. you can iterate over the output of a generator, and you can await the output of a coroutine
2019-12-19T14:11:53 < dongs> i'll stick to C
2019-12-19T14:12:02 < jadew`> yup, that would be the equivalent of a generator vs a function that returns a promise
2019-12-19T14:12:43 < zyp> also, generators are independent things, coroutines are scheduled by an event loop
2019-12-19T14:12:45 < jadew`> maybe they're called Coroutines in JS too and I was too dumb to pick it up
2019-12-19T14:13:17 < jadew`> zyp, yup, that's exactly the same
2019-12-19T14:13:23 < zyp> before python got coroutines, the tornado lib built coroutines on generators
2019-12-19T14:13:36 < zyp> so it's the same thing deep down, but differences in syntactical sugar
2019-12-19T14:17:22 < dongs> I prefer languages that you can still use 20 years after their invention
2019-12-19T14:17:33 < dongs> not this shit wehre there's some newfag shit nobody cares about every month
2019-12-19T14:17:35 < dongs> like lunix
2019-12-19T14:17:35 < Thorn> I would love to have coroutines that would be usable on bare metal
2019-12-19T14:18:05 < jadew`> dongs, c++ is like that tho
2019-12-19T14:18:45 < jadew`> I think it's great that it keeps adding features
2019-12-19T14:19:20 < jadew`> that way, there's a lower chance that someone will migrate to a different language, just because of a missing feature
2019-12-19T14:19:56 < veverak> let's keep it real
2019-12-19T14:20:02 < veverak> I like C++, but you can't add features forever
2019-12-19T14:20:09 < jadew`> sure you can
2019-12-19T14:20:12 < veverak> no
2019-12-19T14:20:14 < veverak> you can't
2019-12-19T14:20:14 < jadew`> boost is full of ideas
2019-12-19T14:20:37 < veverak> or you end up in situation where you would have to learn the language for 40 years and use it at most for 10 anyway
2019-12-19T14:20:57 < jadew`> you don't have to learn it for 40 years
2019-12-19T14:21:26 < jadew`> you just learn about what's available and when you need it, you go read about it
2019-12-19T14:21:28 < veverak> if you continue adding features indefinetly, you will eventually have to
2019-12-19T14:21:35 < jadew`> coroutines and generators would be basic features tho
2019-12-19T14:21:42 < jadew`> so they would have to be covered in the basics
2019-12-19T14:22:04 < veverak> coroutines are on the way :) and generators in what sense?
2019-12-19T14:22:37 < jadew`> see that page
2019-12-19T14:22:40 < jadew`> second example
2019-12-19T14:22:54 < jadew`> oh, nobody linked it
2019-12-19T14:22:56 < jadew`> lol
2019-12-19T14:23:01 < jadew`> https://en.cppreference.com/w/cpp/language/coroutines
2019-12-19T14:23:11 < jadew`> I guess I found it myself :P
2019-12-19T14:25:00 < Thorn> >coroutine state is allocated on the heap via non-array operator new
2019-12-19T14:25:12 < Thorn> back to the freezer then :/
2019-12-19T14:31:13 < zyp> coroutines are great for shit that does async comms
2019-12-19T14:31:42 < Thorn> https://stackoverflow.com/a/57167404/1092084
2019-12-19T14:32:23 < Thorn> https://stackoverflow.com/a/57167156/1092084
2019-12-19T14:33:22 < zyp> coroutines reads and writes like blocking code, without actually blocking shit, and avoids a lot of issues that multithreading has
2019-12-19T14:35:46 < Thorn> my current timer+event based "OS" would probably benefit greatly from them
2019-12-19T14:36:13 < zyp> I mean, a coroutine is basically a lightweight thread with cooperative multitasking
2019-12-19T14:36:24 < Thorn> but I don't know if they can be made to work without malloc()s
2019-12-19T14:36:27 < zyp> where the coroutine frame is the thread stack
2019-12-19T14:36:38 < jadew`> found a website that sells cracked software: https://solidworks.buycheapcad.com/
2019-12-19T14:36:52 < jadew`> I mean... it must be cracked
2019-12-19T14:37:06 < jadew`> solidworks for $75 :D
2019-12-19T14:38:31 < tcth> mastercam $75 too
2019-12-19T14:38:40 < tcth> I wonder if they also sell kicad for $75
2019-12-19T14:39:19 < zyp> Thorn, in theory, sure, in practice idk
2019-12-19T14:39:26 < tcth> that ^
2019-12-19T14:39:41 < tcth> should be printed on every text book.
2019-12-19T14:40:02 < tcth> and brexit related merchandise
2019-12-19T14:40:23 < zyp> Thorn, the way I see it, coroutines is a feature it would be worth adding a heap for
2019-12-19T14:41:28 < Thorn> dunno if they would only allocate at startup, maybe
2019-12-19T14:48:48 < thardin> can't you tell the coroutine thing to use a zone allocator instead?
2019-12-19T14:49:59 < Thorn> the wording in cppreference is unclear. is Promise object == coroutine state?
2019-12-19T14:50:19 < Thorn> you can define operator new in Promise that can use a static buffer
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2019-12-19T14:56:14 < Thorn> >the coroutine state, which is an internal, heap-allocated object that contains: the promise object; the parameters ...
2019-12-19T15:09:28 < veverak> 13:36:13 zyp │ I mean, a coroutine is basically a lightweight thread with cooperative multitasking
2019-12-19T15:09:32 < veverak> ^^ exactly
2019-12-19T15:09:39 < veverak> zyp: bud there is a big difference... for the compiler
2019-12-19T15:09:42 < veverak> *but
2019-12-19T15:10:00 < veverak> it has much better space for optimizations, compared to actually using threads afaik
2019-12-19T15:10:10 < veverak> (there is cppcon presentation about htat somewhere)
2019-12-19T15:18:22 < Thorn> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ts-1mWBmTNE https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j9tlJAqMV7U ?
2019-12-19T15:19:27 < jadew`> Thorn, I believe the promise object is part of the state of the function
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2019-12-19T15:22:19 < dongs> > As always remember the 'S' in IoT stands for security.
2019-12-19T15:22:20 < dongs> haha
2019-12-19T15:22:24 < jadew`> my guess is that it basically creates a closure for the coroutine, and it behaves much like a lambda in that regard
2019-12-19T15:22:25 < qyx> old
2019-12-19T15:22:40 < dongs> you faggots still talking about languages nobody cares about eh
2019-12-19T15:23:01 < dongs> writing functions in teh middle of other functions = pure fucking faggotry and lazniess
2019-12-19T15:23:04 < dongs> no other excuse for it
2019-12-19T15:23:12 < jadew`> (with the promise object being in the closure, obviously)
2019-12-19T15:23:18 < Thorn> dongs can you answer some ada questions
2019-12-19T15:23:29 < dongs> ada is deader than RMS
2019-12-19T15:23:50 < Thorn> jadew`: lambda doesn't malloc() until & unless you put it into a std::function
2019-12-19T15:27:36 < jadew`> I want to move away from Fusion
2019-12-19T15:27:49 < jadew`> they're changing their licenses and it's making me nervous
2019-12-19T15:27:55 < jadew`> since all my shit is on their servers
2019-12-19T15:28:19 < jadew`> I need something I can commit along with the rest of the project
2019-12-19T15:31:12 < dongs> wjhat
2019-12-19T15:31:19 < dongs> the fuck is fusion
2019-12-19T15:31:24 < jadew`> fusion 360
2019-12-19T15:31:29 < dongs> oh autocuck stuff?
2019-12-19T15:31:33 < jadew`> yeah
2019-12-19T15:31:38 < dongs> just fucking use freecad
2019-12-19T15:31:45 < dongs> its free as in aids
2019-12-19T15:31:45 < jadew`> pff...
2019-12-19T15:32:24 < jadew`> I'm trying to get my hands on a solidworks license
2019-12-19T15:32:41 < specing> buy one?
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2019-12-19T15:32:57 < jadew`> specing, yeah, but I don't plan to get the full price one
2019-12-19T15:33:23 < qyx> buy a $75 one
2019-12-19T15:33:27 < jadew`> haha
2019-12-19T15:33:36 < jadew`> I would, if it was legit
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2019-12-19T16:16:29 < jadew`> jeez man.. that BG7TGL garbage sweat shop in china is pissing me off
2019-12-19T16:16:47 < jadew`> they're releasing absolute garbage and everyone is buying them
2019-12-19T16:17:27 < jadew`> I announced a project about two months ago and they made something similar (but absolute garbage) and people are buying it
2019-12-19T16:17:34 < jadew`> pisses me off so bad...
2019-12-19T16:17:51 < dongs> wow
2019-12-19T16:18:09 < dongs> 'drive' for linux is useful. written in a garbage shit language 'go' but there's static releases
2019-12-19T16:18:15 < dongs> one-click CLI for google drive
2019-12-19T16:18:29 < dongs> https://github.com/odeke-em/drive/releases
2019-12-19T16:24:06 < ub|k> is there anyone using ITM on an STM32F4DISCOVERY board?
2019-12-19T16:25:29 < PaulFertser> ub|k: I think it should work but you might need to check that solder bridge.
2019-12-19T16:25:59 < PaulFertser> ub|k: for ITM you'll need the target's SWO pin connected to stlink's SWO input. Check the schematics, there's an "SB" involved.
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2019-12-19T17:19:29 < englishman> can I use rclamp0524 for lvds
2019-12-19T17:19:35 < englishman> seems good enough
2019-12-19T17:23:21 < qyx> PD4EUSB30DQAR is half the price
2019-12-19T17:23:27 < qyx> wat
2019-12-19T17:23:32 < qyx> TPD4EUSB30DQAR
2019-12-19T17:25:14 < qyx> double the capacitance though
2019-12-19T17:25:23 < qyx> but usb3 rated, so should work for hdim too
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2019-12-19T17:25:30 < superbia> job's done
2019-12-19T17:25:46 < superbia> Steffanx: train ticket in my pocket
2019-12-19T17:25:47 < qyx> or lvds
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2019-12-19T17:45:08 < dongs> englishman: yes
2019-12-19T17:45:15 < dongs> englishman: use the AMAZE ones tho
2019-12-19T17:45:26 < dongs> i mean unless youre buying in urica
2019-12-19T17:45:40 < englishman> ofc
2019-12-19T17:45:47 < englishman> already in project tho
2019-12-19T17:45:52 < dongs> AZ1045-04F.R7G
2019-12-19T17:45:57 < dongs> ah ok
2019-12-19T17:46:00 < dongs> well its drop in replacement
2019-12-19T17:46:04 < englishman> cool
2019-12-19T17:46:04 < dongs> withotu the jew tax
2019-12-19T17:46:12 < englishman> when I make my 100% clone I'll use that
2019-12-19T17:46:16 < englishman> instead
2019-12-19T17:47:51 < superbia> was any one of you peasants in israel?
2019-12-19T17:48:01 < dongs> why do you ask
2019-12-19T17:48:05 < superbia> i have to go
2019-12-19T17:48:14 < dongs> super nice place
2019-12-19T17:48:32 < PaulFertser> But saturdays suck
2019-12-19T17:48:45 < superbia> eat dicks. i know you were never there
2019-12-19T17:49:08 < dongs> ok boomer
2019-12-19T17:49:09 < PaulFertser> superbia: why do you think dongs weren't there?
2019-12-19T17:49:53 < PaulFertser> superbia: expensive hotels, relatively expensive everything. Too few open places (and most public transport not working) on Saturdays.
2019-12-19T17:50:14 < PaulFertser> superbia: plenty of firearms visible on people around
2019-12-19T17:50:37 < PaulFertser> superbia: what do you plan to do there?
2019-12-19T17:50:38 < superbia> what not to do as a tall white european?
2019-12-19T17:50:40 < emeb> Went to .il a couple times on business. Was interesting.
2019-12-19T17:50:52 < dongs> emeb, for intel?
2019-12-19T17:50:58 < emeb> dongs: yep
2019-12-19T17:51:01 < dongs> nice
2019-12-19T17:51:12 < dongs> superbia: don't do retarded shit
2019-12-19T17:51:15 < dongs> don't fuck the locals
2019-12-19T17:51:17 < dongs> don't steal shit
2019-12-19T17:51:27 < superbia> I'm not a jew
2019-12-19T17:51:35 < PaulFertser> superbia: do not be a dick in general
2019-12-19T17:51:47 < emeb> words to live by
2019-12-19T17:52:21 < emeb> and yeah - saturdays.
2019-12-19T17:52:37 < emeb> loved the elevators put on automatic so they stop on every floor
2019-12-19T17:52:51 < PaulFertser> "shabbat mode"
2019-12-19T17:52:55 < emeb> this
2019-12-19T17:53:30 < superbia> ok so if all of you peasants got out of it alive it's nothing to worry about
2019-12-19T17:53:48 < emeb> one thing I noticed - more guns than in the US
2019-12-19T17:54:16 < emeb> armed dude at a podium outside of every restaurant / hotel checking you out.
2019-12-19T17:54:46 < superbia> is it army?
2019-12-19T17:54:53 < emeb> private security
2019-12-19T17:54:54 < superbia> or some paramilitary police unit
2019-12-19T17:55:41 < PaulFertser> superbia: don't be surprised by amount of garbage on streets :/
2019-12-19T17:56:21 < BrainDamage> can they cook at least during shabbat?
2019-12-19T17:56:27 < BrainDamage> or do they have to precook
2019-12-19T17:56:31 < PaulFertser> BrainDamage: sure not
2019-12-19T17:56:41 < PaulFertser> BrainDamage: both lighting and extinguishing a fire is prohibited :)
2019-12-19T17:56:53 < thardin> BrainDamage: you program your oven and such
2019-12-19T17:56:57 < emeb> most of the ppl I interfaced with there were secular - didn't follow all the religious restrictions.
2019-12-19T17:57:00 < thardin> they have special lamps too
2019-12-19T17:57:15 < PaulFertser> BrainDamage: so if you house is in flames, so be it (unless there's some nice fellow "goi" willing to voluntarily help you)
2019-12-19T17:57:19 < thardin> or lamp hoods I should say
2019-12-19T17:57:23 < superbia> do they not destroy inbound rockets aswell?
2019-12-19T17:57:36 < thardin> PaulFertser: it's not uncommon to have a shabbos goy
2019-12-19T17:57:37 < BrainDamage> lie in bed with a feeding tube
2019-12-19T17:57:40 < PaulFertser> superbia: protecting humans and pet animals is allowed
2019-12-19T17:57:53 < thardin> there's also that kosher lightswitch
2019-12-19T17:57:54 < superbia> and bombing raids?
2019-12-19T17:58:04 < thardin> which is like, an incredibly weird concept
2019-12-19T17:58:29 < BrainDamage> the one with the debactle where it interrupts a beam?
2019-12-19T17:58:38 < thardin> yeah that's the one
2019-12-19T17:58:47 < thardin> and it has an element of randomness to it
2019-12-19T17:59:14 < PaulFertser> Approved by best hasidic experts
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2019-12-19T17:59:34 < thardin> I wonder if there's anyone schedling pre-written shitposts that post themselves via a script on shabbat
2019-12-19T17:59:41 < thardin> scheduling
2019-12-19T18:00:09 < thardin> gotta go!
2019-12-19T18:00:36 < PaulFertser> superbia: I remember reading about a certain district in Jerusalem where you can catch a stone from the locals if they think you look too offending.
2019-12-19T18:01:07 < superbia> is there something you can't wear
2019-12-19T18:01:18 < PaulFertser> superbia: in that district?
2019-12-19T18:01:22 < BrainDamage> sling bikini
2019-12-19T18:01:28 < superbia> business attire is in general ok?
2019-12-19T18:01:40 < PaulFertser> superbia: just do not go there, why would you need to face religious extrimists?
2019-12-19T18:02:03 < PaulFertser> business attire in general sucks
2019-12-19T18:02:13 < PaulFertser> Fuck business
2019-12-19T18:03:12 < superbia> thanks for your guide to israel
2019-12-19T18:03:19 < superbia> you should write a tourist guide about it
2019-12-19T18:03:43 < PaulFertser> I found https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Weizmann_Institute_of_Science to be a very nice place
2019-12-19T18:04:28 < PaulFertser> Too bad I only had a chance to visit just "Garden of Science" (museum for ~kids) there.
2019-12-19T18:05:24 < PaulFertser> superbia: oh, btw, do not forget, Saturday starts at about 16:00 on Friday! Plan your shopping and public transport trips accordingly! It ends about about sunset on Saturday.
2019-12-19T18:06:02 < superbia> no uber?
2019-12-19T18:06:10 < PaulFertser> I'm talking about trains/busses
2019-12-19T18:06:20 < superbia> I wouldn't ride on busses
2019-12-19T18:06:24 < PaulFertser> They have Gets taxy there.
2019-12-19T18:06:24 < superbia> are you out of your mind?
2019-12-19T18:06:40 < qyx> whats wrong with train busses?
2019-12-19T18:06:48 < PaulFertser> Gett
2019-12-19T18:07:02 < PaulFertser> superbia is a serious businessman apparently
2019-12-19T18:07:13 < superbia> is there an amateur businessman?
2019-12-19T18:07:39 < BrainDamage> one that didn't get paid yet
2019-12-19T18:08:05 < PaulFertser> superbia: and drink plenty of water if you're not used to the climate
2019-12-19T18:08:19 < benishor> anyone experienced with linux-gpib?
2019-12-19T18:09:04 < BrainDamage> back when I used gpib I run a windows vm to run the software
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2019-12-19T18:10:22 < PaulFertser> superbia: I guess registering a Gett account in advance is recommended if you plan to use taxy there
2019-12-19T18:11:14 < emeb> and be prepared for "Serious Airport Security" (TM)
2019-12-19T18:11:34 < superbia> not if you are a white european male
2019-12-19T18:11:44 < emeb> Oh, even then.
2019-12-19T18:11:51 < emeb> No one gets off lightly.
2019-12-19T18:11:54 < PaulFertser> Just do not fool with them. If they ask you if there was a friend from Egypt helping you to pack your bag, just answer no, without shitty jokes.
2019-12-19T18:11:54 < benishor> BrainDamage: I see. well, I got things going with linux-gpib. I just want to emulate a plotter and I don't have the slightest clue as of how. I'm just starting with gpib
2019-12-19T18:12:34 < emeb> One of the guys I went there with was Egyptian, named Achmed. He got the extra special treatment.
2019-12-19T18:12:59 < emeb> We had to wait around for a couple hours for him to clear.
2019-12-19T18:13:20 < BrainDamage> did he walk funny afterwards?
2019-12-19T18:14:41 < PaulFertser> I liked it very much how they have posters with many famous scientists and engineers on display at Ben Gurion airport.
2019-12-19T18:15:43 < emeb> whereas if you go to Stockholm airport there are posters of Abba.
2019-12-19T18:17:09 < PaulFertser> lol
2019-12-19T18:17:32 < superbia> forgot to ask, is it rude to take photos
2019-12-19T18:17:51 < superbia> i'd hate to get my phone rekt
2019-12-19T18:17:54 < PaulFertser> idk, I do not have a camera
2019-12-19T18:18:25 < emeb> I took lots of pix, but not of ppl generally.
2019-12-19T18:18:26 < qyx> nokia 105?
2019-12-19T18:18:52 < PaulFertser> qyx: openmoko freerunner
2019-12-19T18:19:02 < dongs> lol
2019-12-19T18:19:14 < dongs> that doesn't have a camera cuz lunix has no camera support
2019-12-19T18:19:51 < PaulFertser> No, it doesn't have a camera because it's too ancient.
2019-12-19T18:20:01 < dongs> http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/e/e4/GTA02.jpg 1973 is about right
2019-12-19T18:20:07 < dongs> right wehre it fucking belongs
2019-12-19T18:20:16 < dongs> y/y/y
2019-12-19T18:20:25 < PaulFertser> y
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2019-12-19T18:20:33 < superbia> wehre werfen deutschland
2019-12-19T18:20:36 < PaulFertser> dongs: the case was created for the Taiwanese local market
2019-12-19T18:21:07 < superbia> so now it's important to buy the most obsolete phone?
2019-12-19T18:21:43 < PaulFertser> dongs: external GPS antenna can be attached, ain't that cool? ;)
2019-12-19T18:21:50 < dongs> lol
2019-12-19T18:22:22 < emeb> #bestreception
2019-12-19T18:22:47 < qyx> I hope it runs vim
2019-12-19T18:22:59 < PaulFertser> qyx: it's just an SBC, it can run anything.
2019-12-19T18:23:05 < emeb> build openocd on your phone
2019-12-19T18:23:11 < dongs> thats waht he does
2019-12-19T18:23:14 < superbia> did you see this https://www.escobarinc.com/
2019-12-19T18:23:18 < PaulFertser> qyx: I actually used it as a cellphone for several years with an Emacs UI I wrote.
2019-12-19T18:23:34 < PaulFertser> emeb: of course, it has USB host and I tested openocd on it. Back then...
2019-12-19T18:23:49 < emeb> PaulFertser: :)
2019-12-19T18:24:39 < emeb> It's actually kind of sad - phones are pretty decent computers if you could only get at them w/o all the UI crap.
2019-12-19T18:28:48 < Ultrasauce> some people do use a gnu userspace under android
2019-12-19T18:30:16 < BrainDamage> it's pretty limited tho
2019-12-19T18:30:32 < BrainDamage> you don't have hardware access for many things because the api is different
2019-12-19T18:32:30 < PaulFertser> And the vendors don't give a shit about doing drivers properly, with common kernel-userspace API.
2019-12-19T18:32:41 < dongs> gee i fucking wonder why
2019-12-19T18:32:46 < dongs> because that fucking API changes every fucking week
2019-12-19T18:32:51 < dongs> nobody wants to keep chasing lunix trash
2019-12-19T18:33:25 < qyx> better than preserving it since windows 95
2019-12-19T18:33:31 < PaulFertser> dongs: do you have a kernel-userspace API example in mind that would highlight your smart observation?
2019-12-19T18:33:36 < BrainDamage> that's actually one thing that's plain wrong
2019-12-19T18:33:51 < dongs> PaulFertser: yeah, DVB-USB
2019-12-19T18:33:52 < BrainDamage> one of the tenants of linux kernel is 'we do not break userspace'
2019-12-19T18:33:59 < dongs> they simply removed capability of building anyhing wiht that outside of kernel.
2019-12-19T18:34:33 < dongs> and for examples
2019-12-19T18:34:36 < dongs> V4L shit as well
2019-12-19T18:34:43 < dongs> there's litertally 100s of fucking abandoned forks
2019-12-19T18:34:46 < dongs> with different v endor drivers
2019-12-19T18:34:52 < dongs> and half dont work for ~reasons~
2019-12-19T18:34:56 < PaulFertser> There was v4l long time ago, nows it's v4l2, the API is consistent for all the drivers.
2019-12-19T18:35:13 < PaulFertser> dongs: you probably think about vendor drivers that were never merged upstream?
2019-12-19T18:35:31 < PaulFertser> So talking about internal kernel frameworks APIs
2019-12-19T18:35:31 < dongs> of course?
2019-12-19T18:35:33 < dongs> why would they b
2019-12-19T18:35:39 < dongs> nobdoy cares about ancient shit in kernel
2019-12-19T18:35:46 < dongs> im talking about drivers for actual $current hardware
2019-12-19T18:35:50 < dongs> that vendors dont want to maintain
2019-12-19T18:35:54 < dongs> because the API changes weekly
2019-12-19T18:36:06 < PaulFertser> dongs: that's actually not correct. Whenever the API is changed, whoever is changing it fixes all the compile-time breakage.
2019-12-19T18:36:23 < dongs> vendors dont have time to trakc that sorta shit
2019-12-19T18:49:01 < PaulFertser> dongs: they do not need to. They need to write a decent driver, upstream it.
2019-12-19T18:49:14 < PaulFertser> No need for constantly tracking anything.
2019-12-19T18:52:30 < PaulFertser> Out-of-tree drivers always break, true. Because that's not how development process works in the Linux land. Providing no stable driver API allows for kernel-wide refactoring and fast-paced movement forward. So there're some advantages to this approach.
2019-12-19T18:52:48 < dongs> i can load a binary driver from windows 2000 x32 on windows 10 32bit 1909
2019-12-19T18:52:55 < dongs> thats.. 19 years of binary compatibility
2019-12-19T18:53:09 < dongs> lunix you'll be lucky to load a driver from 19 days ago
2019-12-19T18:53:30 < PaulFertser> Different development model, different set of tradeoffs.
2019-12-19T18:53:37 < qyx> yeah but as PaulFertser says
2019-12-19T18:54:58 < PaulFertser> Oh, and btw, enjoy the AiDS you can't disable now in windows start menu.
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2019-12-19T19:06:02 < superbia> aids?
2019-12-19T19:11:32 < PaulFertser> I tried to use dongs-speak to make it easier to understand for him.
2019-12-19T19:11:59 < PaulFertser> https://betanews.com/2019/12/17/non-removable-ads-windows-10/
2019-12-19T19:15:49 < superbia> whath's wrong with ads
2019-12-19T19:19:13 < PaulFertser> They mess with your BRAIN bro
2019-12-19T19:19:51 < tcth> only if you´re weak
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2019-12-19T19:24:33 < superbia> don't adds get tailored to you?
2019-12-19T19:25:48 < superbia> so far the only adds on my telly was from Rolce, Patek and Kodiak
2019-12-19T19:25:57 < superbia> am I doing something wrong
2019-12-19T19:27:23 < englishman> no they know you are a superficial upper middle class suburbanite
2019-12-19T19:30:22 < tcth> I consider myself middle class
2019-12-19T19:30:23 < tcth> hate me
2019-12-19T19:34:32 < Steffanx> Fucking middle classer. Blegh
2019-12-19T19:39:30 < jpa-> swiss middle class is like finnish elite
2019-12-19T19:43:14 < Steffanx> That for sure
2019-12-19T19:50:29 < superbia> how
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2019-12-19T20:01:06 < Laurenceb> https://forum.nasaspaceflight.com/index.php?topic=48895.920
2019-12-19T20:01:10 < Laurenceb> Musk at wurk
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2019-12-19T20:07:27 < doomba> https://postimg.cc/Y420dRdh
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2019-12-19T20:30:33 < PaulFertser> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1kD1zubg3cA death metal meets UN
2019-12-19T20:49:20 < doomba> PaulFertser: lmao
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2019-12-19T21:03:26 < Steffanx> wlcm
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2019-12-19T21:23:29 < qyx> 18:39 < jpa-> swiss middle class is like finnish elite │···························································································································
2019-12-19T21:23:34 < qyx> lol
2019-12-19T21:23:39 < qyx> also wth those dots
2019-12-19T21:24:03 < superbia> qyx: tears
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2019-12-19T21:27:00 < Steffanx> is superbia alright? Do you know?
2019-12-19T21:27:13 < superbia> i have the train ticket in my pocket
2019-12-19T21:27:18 < Steffanx> i dont
2019-12-19T21:27:18 < superbia> werk is done early
2019-12-19T21:27:22 < Steffanx> where will it take you?
2019-12-19T21:27:26 < superbia> traveling to holiday destination
2019-12-19T21:27:38 < Steffanx> where will that be?
2019-12-19T21:27:52 < superbia> serbia
2019-12-19T21:28:02 < Steffanx> aha
2019-12-19T21:28:04 < superbia> lul gstaad
2019-12-19T21:30:19 < Steffanx> have fun mr superbia
2019-12-19T21:30:37 < superbia> Steffanx: so happy werk is done, you have no idea
2019-12-19T21:30:42 < superbia> werk was painful
2019-12-19T21:30:56 < Steffanx> if i only knew what you did then i could judge too
2019-12-19T21:32:42 < superbia> i don't trust you.. you have multiple agents infiltrated all over europe
2019-12-19T21:33:05 < Steffanx> ok ty
2019-12-19T21:33:06 < superbia> I would not be surprised that you have agents in Montenegro or Vatican
2019-12-19T21:33:24 < Steffanx> yeah, and i hate romanians much. so indeed. better hide.
2019-12-19T21:33:58 < bitmask> what the fuck am I doing
2019-12-19T21:34:09 < superbia> i am john wick
2019-12-19T21:34:22 < Steffanx> i killed your dog
2019-12-19T21:34:48 < superbia> you stole my horse
2019-12-19T21:34:48 < h4x0riz3d> u ded
2019-12-19T21:34:58 < bitmask> all your base are belong to us
2019-12-19T21:35:14 < Steffanx> excommunicado superbia.
2019-12-19T21:35:24 * superbia has been excommunicato
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2019-12-19T21:42:26 < bitmask> I dont really use my printer anymore but I want to build something, is it silly to spend a couple hundred to build a new printer :P
2019-12-19T21:42:56 < qyx> build a printer for money
2019-12-19T21:42:58 < bitmask> I still do use it occasionally and my current printer bothers me
2019-12-19T21:43:43 < Steffanx> hm
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2019-12-19T21:45:44 < bitmask> I can spend $60 and upgrade to linear rails and extrusion frame or spend like $300 and do something like a railcore II
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2019-12-19T21:46:20 < Steffanx> you'll never be satisfied.
2019-12-19T21:46:42 < bitmask> true
2019-12-19T21:46:50 < Steffanx> because fdm
2019-12-19T21:47:03 < bitmask> I want a resin too but not quite yet
2019-12-19T21:47:21 < bitmask> I think a new fdm is a better choice at the moment
2019-12-19T21:47:40 < qyx> whats fdm
2019-12-19T21:47:49 < qyx> is it similar to ocd
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2019-12-19T21:48:25 < bitmask> fused deposition modeling
2019-12-19T21:48:33 < bitmask> squirting plastic layer by layer
2019-12-19T21:48:47 < Steffanx> what bitmask said
2019-12-19T21:49:05 < qyx> better quality?
2019-12-19T21:49:15 < bitmask> fdm is what regular old 3d printers use
2019-12-19T21:49:20 < bitmask> resin is different
2019-12-19T21:49:40 < Steffanx> im not sure if you want to do resin in your living/sleeping room anyway.
2019-12-19T21:50:02 < bitmask> true
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2019-12-19T22:42:18 < karlp> Cracki: fwiw, monopoly isn't like fiat money at all. monopoly money is a fixed sum and can run out.
2019-12-19T22:43:31 < BrainDamage> also monopoly money is not backed by anything
2019-12-19T22:43:46 < BrainDamage> they may be promises, but a state still has wealth
2019-12-19T22:44:19 < BrainDamage> so money can be converted to tangible goods like land, resources, industry, finished goods etc
2019-12-19T22:44:37 < BrainDamage> monopoly money instead has value fixed by the rules
2019-12-19T22:47:51 < karlp> dongs: speaking of super fresh hardware (or a few days ago now) pulled open an old power meter that someone gave us, "can you read this?" shit was a hc11, with an actual amd branded windowed eprom :)
2019-12-19T22:48:43 < qyx> :D
2019-12-19T22:49:05 < qyx> that was my first embedded encounter
2019-12-19T22:49:09 < qyx> on a high school
2019-12-19T22:49:26 < qyx> I salvaged 68hc11 from some old industrial something
2019-12-19T22:49:34 < qyx> hand-drawn a pcb
2019-12-19T22:49:48 < qyx> salvaged a 32K cache SRAM from an old PC
2019-12-19T22:50:10 < qyx> and learnt programming in asm and imagecraft
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2019-12-19T23:20:25 < jadew`> I managed to annoy a bunch of eevblog users today
2019-12-19T23:20:58 < jadew`> not my intention, but they don't seem to enjoy having their chinese tools criticized
2019-12-19T23:21:08 < Thorn> achievement unlocked
2019-12-19T23:21:35 < jadew`> yeah... not sure how good that is for business tho
2019-12-19T23:22:37 < jadew`> I remember reading somewhere that you shouldn't engage in criticism of other businesses, because you could offend your own customers
2019-12-19T23:22:57 < jadew`> the upside of this is that I don't have that many customers, so it can't make much of a dent
2019-12-19T23:24:20 < jadew`> anyway, I just wanted to give this channel a break from my usual stuff
2019-12-19T23:26:12 < jadew`> I started watching the expanse again
2019-12-19T23:26:25 < jadew`> I think I can take it from the beginning because I forgot most of it
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2019-12-19T23:31:41 < karlp> qyx: yeah, my 3rd year project was a hc11 based project.
2019-12-19T23:32:09 < karlp> 2nd year was .... probably the last truly analog project I ever did.
2019-12-19T23:32:26 < jadew`> what did you make?
2019-12-19T23:32:36 < karlp> 2nd year? waveform generator.
2019-12-19T23:32:49 < qyx> 2nd year on a high school?
2019-12-19T23:32:50 < jadew`> oh, and it was analog, eh?
2019-12-19T23:32:51 < karlp> sin/triangle/square, freq/ampl/duty stuff.
2019-12-19T23:33:07 < jadew`> opamp integrator for triangle, followed by comparator?
2019-12-19T23:33:11 < jadew`> for square
2019-12-19T23:33:18 < karlp> yeah, all analog. used l33t search skills to find just the right app notes
2019-12-19T23:33:24 < jadew`> hehe
2019-12-19T23:33:38 < karlp> ended up being the base design used by probably half the class.
2019-12-19T23:33:47 < karlp> even then though, I was very much not the analog boi.
2019-12-19T23:33:58 < karlp> but I could drive protel....
2019-12-19T23:34:04 < karlp> probably the last time I used altium too then I guess :)
2019-12-19T23:40:18 < Cracki> thx jadew` for giving me the idea to do a sawtooth with opamps on a breadboard. sounds fun
2019-12-19T23:40:32 < jadew`> Cracki, np :)
2019-12-19T23:40:40 < karlp> jadew`: don't have a schematic for it anywhere I can find sorry.
2019-12-19T23:41:31 < jadew`> man... arguing on that forum is tiring
2019-12-19T23:42:18 < jadew`> there's a certain lack of logic, or they just don't read the previous messages, which makes the replies sound like trolling
2019-12-19T23:43:18 < karlp> however, nat semi, AN-0263 "sine wave generation techniques" page 8, logaratihmic shaping, was the method of choice. the lm394 matched pair got the specs needed and the price was right
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2019-12-19T23:48:01 < upgrdman> altium pros: can i make a schematic sympol pin connect to multiple footprint pins? like on some SOIC8 transistors, the drain will have 2 pins
2019-12-19T23:48:23 < Thorn> anyone tried https://littlevgl.com/. ?
2019-12-19T23:49:12 < Cracki> Thorn, I've seen that before. someone in here probably did try it... grepping
2019-12-19T23:50:37 < Cracki> rajkosto talked most about it
--- Day changed Fri Dec 20 2019
2019-12-20T00:04:22 < doomba> https://postimg.cc/tZKdRnrj
2019-12-20T00:04:24 < doomba> fucking digikey
2019-12-20T00:04:30 < doomba> i ordered one 64qfn
2019-12-20T00:04:57 < doomba> and they sent me a whole reel for some other part and spliced a piece of a qfn reel to the middle of it but there was no part in it
2019-12-20T00:05:12 < doomba> so they spliced a piece of empty reel into another reel like some kind of 1970's porno film
2019-12-20T00:05:20 < doomba> and didn't even put the fucking part in it
2019-12-20T00:05:23 < doomba> and it was a $16 part
2019-12-20T00:06:46 < qyx> Thorn: dongs probably, he mentions it sometimes
2019-12-20T00:07:15 < Steffanx> Sue em doomba
2019-12-20T00:09:43 < doomba> dude
2019-12-20T00:09:59 < doomba> it's like they took a tray, cut one chip's worth out of it and then spliced it into a reel from some other part
2019-12-20T00:10:17 < doomba> but when they were cutting, the chip fell out and they didn't notice. and they taped it all together like "yup. looks good!"
2019-12-20T00:10:29 < doomba> and send me this huge antistatic bag with a reel in it for 1 64qfn
2019-12-20T00:10:51 < doomba> and i was like "damn this is some serious packing job... holy shit they spliced reels together for 1 chip... why... oh wait there's nothing here. what the fuck?"
2019-12-20T00:11:18 < doomba> and i'm looking at my order
2019-12-20T00:11:26 < doomba> and i didn't order from the reel inventory. i ordered from trays
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2019-12-20T00:14:17 < Cracki> kek
2019-12-20T00:30:02 < machinehum> digi has defs sent me massave packages for tiny parts before
2019-12-20T00:31:37 < Cracki> some companies send you a questionaire "was the packaging appropriate? yes fine, too much, too little"
2019-12-20T00:31:40 < Cracki> do they do that?
2019-12-20T00:36:16 < doomba> no but i found it
2019-12-20T00:36:19 < doomba> and called them back lol
2019-12-20T00:36:38 < doomba> they totally trolled me by taping reels together with this gold tape like "heres the part"
2019-12-20T00:36:41 < doomba> and it wasn't even in the reel
2019-12-20T00:37:09 < doomba> it was in one of the bags with some 0603 caps
2019-12-20T00:38:12 < Cracki> excellent
2019-12-20T00:38:21 < Cracki> it could have broken a leg or sth!
2019-12-20T00:38:36 < doomba> yea forrealz qfn legs are delicate
2019-12-20T00:38:42 < Cracki> ah right
2019-12-20T00:39:10 < doomba> all those no-leads bend very easily
2019-12-20T00:39:10 < Cracki> wait, inside a bag, not just fell out and ended up somewhere?
2019-12-20T00:39:43 < doomba> there was a big antistatic bag that had some caps and the reel
2019-12-20T00:40:16 < doomba> and i checked it but not good enough i guess
2019-12-20T00:40:36 < doomba> i was so confused because of the way the reel was spliced together - indicating that the part must be on the reel
2019-12-20T00:42:16 < Cracki> post it on social media and tag them in it
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2019-12-20T01:07:51 < doomba> https://postimg.cc/z3HJMt4M
2019-12-20T01:08:02 < doomba> in other news. jlcpcb sent me a pink heart keychain
2019-12-20T01:09:24 < doomba> and i drew the footprint for the relays backwards - so they don't line up with the silk screen. oh well.
2019-12-20T01:09:39 < doomba> guess i'll fix it if there's a critical error elsewhere
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2019-12-20T01:19:03 < specing> nice keychain, doomba
2019-12-20T01:22:02 < Steffanx> Sexy indeed
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2019-12-20T01:32:03 < jadew`> I had a large coffe
2019-12-20T01:32:43 < jadew`> I guess I'll be able to finish a couple of seasons till I go to sleep tomorrow night
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2019-12-20T01:34:53 < qyx> any known good china replacements of pelicases?
2019-12-20T01:36:00 < jadew`> peliclone cases?
2019-12-20T01:36:15 < qyx> yeah
2019-12-20T01:36:58 < jadew`> looks like aliexpress if full
2019-12-20T01:37:03 < jadew`> you could buy a couple and decide for yourself
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2019-12-20T01:40:23 < Ultrasauce> not chinaclones but we've switch to Nanuk and they're fucking fantastic
2019-12-20T01:40:42 < Ultrasauce> i would happily kick one of these down a flight of stairs
2019-12-20T01:41:03 < qyx> aren't nanuks even more expensive?
2019-12-20T01:41:37 < qyx> also nanuk is https://www.helpforenglish.cz/files/20-ice20.jpg
2019-12-20T01:42:23 < Ultrasauce> idk we get wholesale pricing, ill see if i can find an invoice
2019-12-20T01:44:11 < qyx> foudn a local distrib https://bezpecnekufre.sk/sk/9785-nanuk-odolny-kufr-model-908-sedy
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2019-12-20T05:57:50 < englishman> Ultrasauce: nanuk is the shit
2019-12-20T05:57:55 < englishman> and made in keebec
2019-12-20T06:09:41 < bitmask> https://i.imgur.com/L3FhcQP.jpg
2019-12-20T06:09:42 < bitmask> done wit da blue buttons
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2019-12-20T09:44:51 < Thorn> T - 4 h https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cpdIs2nn2cM
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2019-12-20T11:01:48 < Cracki> >Orbital Flight Test
2019-12-20T11:02:35 < Cracki> everything non-spacex seems to be so shit at merely showing what they do, it seems to me that they are 5-10 years behind
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2019-12-20T12:49:43 < Thorn> live https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cpdIs2nn2cM
2019-12-20T12:53:39 < Thorn> first ever launch of starliner (not counting a pad abort test)
2019-12-20T13:08:24 < englishman> what's starliner?
2019-12-20T13:12:42 < qyx> are we expecting kaboom?
2019-12-20T13:18:12 < Thorn> https://github.com/microsoft/vscode/issues/87268
2019-12-20T13:21:55 < PaulFertser> cpdIs2nn2cM: YouTube said: This video is unavailable.
2019-12-20T13:22:26 < Thorn> works 4 me
2019-12-20T13:23:02 < englishman> rofl Thorn
2019-12-20T13:23:17 < englishman> jews ruin everything
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2019-12-20T13:32:14 < Thorn> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K82CRHDT1wc
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2019-12-20T13:46:19 < doomba> https://mastodon.sdf.org/@SDF/103336494662387755
2019-12-20T13:49:23 < Thorn> no telemetry, no roketcams
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2019-12-20T14:11:38 < englishman> might as well not launch at all
2019-12-20T14:16:10 < doomba> people are suffering.
2019-12-20T14:16:12 < doomba> people are dying.
2019-12-20T14:16:14 < doomba> HOW DARE YOU.
2019-12-20T14:48:15 < tcth> what´s the sad story of the day, guys?
2019-12-20T14:54:12 < Thorn> starliner fail
2019-12-20T14:54:18 < Thorn> https://twitter.com/DJSnM/status/1208006636746330120
2019-12-20T14:55:12 < Thorn> https://twitter.com/DJSnM/status/1208002413463883777
2019-12-20T14:57:34 < tcth> oh boy
2019-12-20T14:57:42 < specing> boing boing
2019-12-20T15:12:40 < qyx> did they boing it?
2019-12-20T15:12:44 < qyx> or what happened
2019-12-20T15:13:15 < tcth> it just started raining
2019-12-20T15:13:32 < tcth> err... that message is unrelated to your question, qyx
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2019-12-20T15:37:57 < Thorn> btw Dave already has a copy of X-chapters
2019-12-20T15:46:43 < qyx> so esp8266 with its default firmware supports AT commands over UART and some kind of protocol over SPI/SDIO
2019-12-20T15:46:56 < qyx> anyone used that piece of chinese awesomeness in this mode?
2019-12-20T15:47:18 < qyx> ok, I should google first
2019-12-20T15:47:18 < Thorn> I tried to find info about the same thing in esp32
2019-12-20T15:47:40 < Thorn> didn't find any protocol description
2019-12-20T15:47:46 < qyx> mhm
2019-12-20T15:57:07 < qyx> (gitg:2962): Gdk-ERROR **: 14:56:22.081: The program 'gitg' received an X Window System error.
2019-12-20T15:57:13 < qyx> quality opensores
2019-12-20T15:58:22 < qyx> it used to be good tool
2019-12-20T15:58:33 < qyx> not it is gtk3'd
2019-12-20T15:58:36 < qyx> *now
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2019-12-20T16:17:22 < Cracki> wow that starliner audio was shit
2019-12-20T16:23:43 < Cracki> psa: the cubemx newlib vs freertos bug is NOT gonna be fixed in the upcoming cubemx release
2019-12-20T16:27:13 < Thorn> what bug is that
2019-12-20T16:27:54 < Cracki> freertos supports newlib, but you need to tell it to take care of reentrancy structures AND you need to provide a working heap (syscalls.c: sbrk and some other stuff)
2019-12-20T16:28:03 < Cracki> cubemx does none of that
2019-12-20T16:28:37 < Cracki> http://www.nadler.com/embedded/newlibAndFreeRTOS.html
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2019-12-20T16:39:14 < Thorn> last time I used freertos I allocated all its objects statically
2019-12-20T16:41:02 < Cracki> sure but newlib is shit
2019-12-20T16:41:33 < Cracki> in any case, its printf needs heap
2019-12-20T16:41:52 < Cracki> and I want some printf
2019-12-20T16:44:39 < Thorn> >space station rendezvous now precluded
2019-12-20T16:44:50 < Cracki> orly
2019-12-20T16:44:53 < Thorn> https://twitter.com/cbs_spacenews/status/1208034685982531585
2019-12-20T16:45:19 < Cracki> they make spacex do the mating dance and they are showing near perfect track records. obviously they don't want *that* thing near them
2019-12-20T16:46:07 < Cracki> how is bridenstine related to starliner?
2019-12-20T16:46:12 < Thorn> Cracki: https://github.com/pthorn/safe-formatted-print lol
2019-12-20T16:46:16 < Cracki> last I heard he's head of nasa under trump
2019-12-20T16:46:29 < Cracki> does that do floats?
2019-12-20T16:46:57 < Cracki> gotta have floats
2019-12-20T16:47:17 < Cracki> QString? on a system that needs its printf rewritten? :>
2019-12-20T16:48:17 < Cracki> i understand it's c++. I haven't used that on embedded yet, let alone cin/cout
2019-12-20T16:48:42 < Thorn> fuck cin and cout
2019-12-20T16:49:26 < Thorn> it's a typesafe printf
2019-12-20T16:49:27 < Thorn> this is a more popular implementation of the same idea https://github.com/fmtlib/fmt
2019-12-20T16:49:41 < Cracki> ah!
2019-12-20T16:49:51 < Cracki> I can get behind that
2019-12-20T16:50:48 < Thorn> iostreams is cancer. it's the reason why c++ has ADL which is a major disaster
2019-12-20T16:50:58 < Cracki> anti defamation league?
2019-12-20T16:51:12 < Thorn> aka Koenig lookup
2019-12-20T16:51:13 < Cracki> (which perpetrates defamation)
2019-12-20T16:53:51 < tcth> don´t get me started on ADL
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2019-12-20T16:55:01 < tcth> the amount of hours I spend on thinking about the implicit vs explicit conversions / ctor calls
2019-12-20T16:56:46 < Cracki> c++ has a holy book of rules. it gets ever more byzantine.
2019-12-20T16:57:24 < Cracki> https://en.cppreference.com/w/cpp/language/adl
2019-12-20T16:58:12 < Cracki> afaics this is about namespaces
2019-12-20T17:00:12 < Thorn> >Mission elapsed time was wrong in the spacecraft computer.
2019-12-20T17:00:52 < Thorn> >Couldn't command insertion burn quickly enough after the problem due to a gap in TDRS coverage.
2019-12-20T17:02:08 < englishman> should have used starlink
2019-12-20T17:02:15 < Cracki> how can they fuck that up
2019-12-20T17:02:22 < Cracki> did they use imperial seconds?
2019-12-20T17:02:34 < Cracki> did they fly at relativistic speed?
2019-12-20T17:02:35 < englishman> swatch beats ftw
2019-12-20T17:02:58 < englishman> tcth: can you get rolex to make me a swatch that tells time in swatch beats
2019-12-20T17:04:25 < BrainDamage> i;m impressed of the opposite, there'll be strong stress forces on the oscillators and getting them not to drift will be hard
2019-12-20T17:04:52 < tcth> englishman, definitely
2019-12-20T17:04:58 < englishman> ty
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2019-12-20T17:05:23 < BrainDamage> I want a watch that measures time of the day in seconds
2019-12-20T17:05:26 < Cracki> how do other "launch providers" do it, better components, better dampening, radio update?
2019-12-20T17:05:46 < englishman> BrainDamage: what you actually want is swatch beats
2019-12-20T17:06:12 < BrainDamage> precision of 5 min is a bit low
2019-12-20T17:06:15 < Cracki> the thing already sends telemetry, likely receives GPS, and probably receives exceptional control commands
2019-12-20T17:06:35 < Cracki> 5 min?
2019-12-20T17:06:44 < BrainDamage> swatch beats
2019-12-20T17:06:48 < Cracki> uh
2019-12-20T17:06:55 < Cracki> 1440 minutes a day, 1000 beats a day
2019-12-20T17:06:58 < Cracki> 1.44 minutes per beat
2019-12-20T17:07:30 < Cracki> i must be missing something
2019-12-20T17:07:44 < BrainDamage> ah, I misremembered
2019-12-20T17:08:01 < Cracki> I vaguely remember those beats having no timezone
2019-12-20T17:08:16 < BrainDamage> they have fixed timezone
2019-12-20T17:08:34 < BrainDamage> utc+1, no daylight
2019-12-20T17:08:40 < Cracki> I can accept that in space but not on a planet
2019-12-20T17:08:45 < Cracki> why did they pick utc+1
2019-12-20T17:08:54 < BrainDamage> swiss timezone
2019-12-20T17:09:11 < Cracki> ok I can accept some nationalism in there too :>
2019-12-20T17:09:50 < Cracki> (how to flatearthers explain the need for time zones...)
2019-12-20T17:09:53 < Cracki> *do
2019-12-20T17:11:18 < Cracki> the french tried metric time before. it was a noble idea but failed in... praxis
2019-12-20T17:13:04 < Cracki> *decimal time
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2019-12-20T17:59:36 < BrainDamage> thardin: since you had me check: https://alexander.n.se/scheduled-transmission-from-grimeton-radio-saq-on-christmas-eve-december-24-2018-2/?lang=en
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2019-12-20T18:30:32 < thardin> yes
2019-12-20T18:30:36 < bitmask> no
2019-12-20T18:30:46 < thardin> yes
2019-12-20T18:31:01 < bitmask> okay
2019-12-20T18:31:04 < thardin> BrainDamage: check out a european websdr to catch it
2019-12-20T18:34:29 < dongs> lul im doing usb3>sata (massive autism, i know) and the chip is obviously designed to be mounted on the backside of M.2 / USB sockets
2019-12-20T18:34:37 < dongs> every fucking highspeed lane is inverted
2019-12-20T18:34:55 < BrainDamage> thardin: i'm in north italy, i might be able to get a skywave
2019-12-20T18:35:13 < thardin> a local ham is running a websdr here: http://sa2kng.ddns.net:8073/
2019-12-20T18:35:25 < thardin> we're located in northern sweden
2019-12-20T18:38:28 < bitmask> https://i.imgur.com/L3FhcQP.jpg :)
2019-12-20T18:38:36 < qyx> I have a vlf receiver with stm32f3 but the firmware only detects vlf spherics
2019-12-20T18:39:30 < qyx> and the antenna is only a 1x1m loop 1ohm/1mH
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2019-12-20T18:43:45 < thardin> qyx: one of those active patch antennas also works quite well
2019-12-20T18:43:55 < thardin> jfet followed by a bjt
2019-12-20T18:46:07 < qyx> this is an untuned one, 1:16 transformer to make its impedance about 256ohm, some passive filters and a low noise amp
2019-12-20T18:46:40 < qyx> I followed some antarctica experiment design
2019-12-20T18:47:40 < qyx> it works sufficiently for its purpose
2019-12-20T18:48:51 < thardin> is it also for transmitting?
2019-12-20T18:49:01 < qyx> also it is useless, because if there is a storm within its range (which probably the whole eu) there are so many spherics the receiver is not able to handle them
2019-12-20T18:49:10 < qyx> no, rx only
2019-12-20T18:49:40 < thardin> seems a bit overkill to use a transformer etc
2019-12-20T18:49:47 < thardin> yeah you might actually need to dampen i
2019-12-20T18:50:11 < thardin> for tx you typically need a transformer or gamma match
2019-12-20T18:50:18 < qyx> they used it to shift the impedance to an usable range
2019-12-20T18:50:32 < qyx> to avoid any resistors completely
2019-12-20T18:50:34 < thardin> yes, for tx you do need that :)
2019-12-20T18:50:45 < qyx> it was for rx
2019-12-20T18:50:52 < thardin> hm. alright
2019-12-20T18:51:14 < thardin> maybe a transimpedance app would be appropriate
2019-12-20T18:51:17 < thardin> amp
2019-12-20T18:51:18 < qyx> it was some super low noise design I do not understamd
2019-12-20T18:51:37 < thardin> mayhaps I should repurpose the design we use in the moon project
2019-12-20T18:51:48 < thardin> it's measuring picoamps, so plenty sensitive
2019-12-20T18:52:14 < qyx> I mean, I do understant their reasoning but I was not trying to ezxperiment with it
2019-12-20T18:52:27 < qyx> also fuk android kbd
2019-12-20T18:53:21 < dongs> bitmask: nice autism
2019-12-20T18:53:25 < bitmask> thanks
2019-12-20T19:02:15 < doomba> bitmask: i'm crashing the d1 mini :(
2019-12-20T19:02:28 < bitmask> watchdog reset?
2019-12-20T19:02:34 < doomba> yea
2019-12-20T19:02:46 < bitmask> usually infinite loop related
2019-12-20T19:03:17 < doomba> yeah. what's weird is when i reverted back to the code that was working without it resetting, it's still resetting.
2019-12-20T19:03:54 < bitmask> maybe clear all flash contents?
2019-12-20T19:04:01 < bitmask> dunno
2019-12-20T19:04:02 < doomba> yea will have to try it this weekend
2019-12-20T19:04:10 < bitmask> or just flash a sample program
2019-12-20T19:04:12 < bitmask> and see
2019-12-20T19:04:40 < doomba> i ran into the issue with the way espasyncwebserver handles body data
2019-12-20T19:05:08 < doomba> where it repeatedly calls the callback with 50-60 bytes of data at a time
2019-12-20T19:05:17 < doomba> and you have to piece it all together
2019-12-20T19:05:21 < doomba> annoying
2019-12-20T19:07:06 < bitmask> what are you doing in the callback?
2019-12-20T19:07:47 < bitmask> I'm just serving the index.html and pretty much everything else is handled through websockets
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2019-12-20T19:13:36 < doomba> oh
2019-12-20T19:13:41 < doomba> i have a whole rest api built out lol
2019-12-20T19:13:47 < bitmask> ahh
2019-12-20T19:13:56 < doomba> however
2019-12-20T19:14:01 < doomba> i should have it fixed this weekend
2019-12-20T19:14:11 < doomba> maybe we can combine the two codebases into one?
2019-12-20T19:14:54 < doomba> most of my focus so far has been the api for managing profiles and calibrations
2019-12-20T19:14:55 < bitmask> you probably put more effort into yours to be honest, Not sure what mine will offer as its not 100% stable but I can put the code up for you to look at if you want
2019-12-20T19:15:21 < doomba> well. you have more of an actual working oven than mine
2019-12-20T19:15:23 < bitmask> mine has a/some serious bugs
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2019-12-20T19:15:49 < bitmask> but should be somewhat easy to fix I would think
2019-12-20T19:15:59 < doomba> all i have so far is "hey cool i can add/remove profiles... until it crashes" and "i can make it get hot"
2019-12-20T19:16:06 < bitmask> I just dont need the oven now
2019-12-20T19:16:10 < bitmask> so I havent bothered
2019-12-20T19:16:28 < doomba> i have about 1 week before i have all the parts for the clusterfuck controller
2019-12-20T19:16:29 < bitmask> I'll put my code up, you can take a look at it
2019-12-20T19:16:31 < doomba> cool
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2019-12-20T19:18:14 < doomba> https://postimg.cc/XZ5FVFsg
2019-12-20T19:18:21 < doomba> unsoldered
2019-12-20T19:18:39 < doomba> it's triggering my ocd because i made the relay footprint backwards
2019-12-20T19:21:31 < bitmask> are you using aux for anything?
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2019-12-20T19:21:50 < bitmask> https://github.com/RJFeddeler/ReflowOven
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2019-12-20T19:23:42 < doomba> bitmask: just top and bottom.
2019-12-20T19:23:51 < bitmask> same
2019-12-20T19:24:09 < doomba> BST is for a 3rd "boost" element and then aux is for either a 4th element (some toasters have 4 elements) or a fan or a buzzer or whatever you want to use it for
2019-12-20T19:24:41 < BrainDamage> pro open source project, 0 comments or doc
2019-12-20T19:24:41 < bitmask> yea
2019-12-20T19:24:52 < doomba> yeah bitmask wtf
2019-12-20T19:24:55 < doomba> and no .io domain?
2019-12-20T19:25:08 < bitmask> it wasn't supposed to be open source, I just threw it together for myself
2019-12-20T19:25:08 < doomba> how are the hipsters supposed to use this?
2019-12-20T19:25:29 < doomba> thanks for posting it though
2019-12-20T19:25:33 < bitmask> yup
2019-12-20T19:25:44 < doomba> i'll steal some stuff from it and merge the two together
2019-12-20T19:25:51 < bitmask> ok, let me know when you post yours
2019-12-20T19:26:13 < doomba> mine so far has a calibration section that i hope to have all the things needed to test elements and set values that get saved to SPIFFS
2019-12-20T19:26:45 < doomba> that way you don't have to change code to make it work specific for your oven
2019-12-20T19:26:59 < doomba> just calibrate via the UI until it's good and save the settings
2019-12-20T19:28:01 < bitmask> yea I manually calibrated mine , the controleo calibration is easy enough to implement though
2019-12-20T19:28:17 < doomba> oh wifiManager
2019-12-20T19:28:29 < doomba> doesn't work with my code because i'm using ReactESP
2019-12-20T19:28:36 < doomba> not to be confused with reactjs
2019-12-20T19:29:17 < bitmask> I copied my code from my 7 segment 3d printed clock (you can see the commented code in saveConfig()) which I modified from a user on thingiverse :)
2019-12-20T19:29:42 < bitmask> not a lot of his code left but I stuck with his setup
2019-12-20T19:30:26 < doomba> looks good
2019-12-20T19:30:35 < doomba> is this the controleo 1 stuff with PID?
2019-12-20T19:30:43 < doomba> they changed the way they run the heaters in controleo 2
2019-12-20T19:30:51 < bitmask> I assume its the latest
2019-12-20T19:31:34 < doomba> ok cool yep stealing.
2019-12-20T19:32:04 < doomba> but not frontend lol
2019-12-20T19:32:05 < bitmask> controleo 3
2019-12-20T19:32:15 < doomba> oh controleo 3 maybe went back to PID
2019-12-20T19:32:28 < doomba> they did this weird thing where they have a bitmask
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2019-12-20T19:32:42 < bitmask> pid is limited to 30%, the majority of the control comes from something else
2019-12-20T19:35:06 < bitmask> profileController.cpp lines 168-170
2019-12-20T19:36:55 < doomba> bitmask: it's coming together https://i.imgur.com/SS0RwLk.jpg
2019-12-20T19:37:08 < doomba> stupid screenshot thingy. ignore right side screen
2019-12-20T19:37:23 < bitmask> nice
2019-12-20T19:37:54 < doomba> so in the profile editor, the profile name is editable, and then you can edit the exit and target stuff right in the table by clicking on them
2019-12-20T19:38:12 < doomba> then i have chartjs to the right of each one to eventually show the graph of the profile
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2019-12-20T19:39:36 < doomba> it's pulling those values from the ESP
2019-12-20T19:39:45 < doomba> just crashes when i try to update them
2019-12-20T19:39:59 < doomba> there's no "save changes" or anything becaues it auto-saves
2019-12-20T19:42:28 < bitmask> definitely a lot nicer than mine, will be happy to replace mine with yours when its ready :P
2019-12-20T19:45:48 < mawk> mow and blow
2019-12-20T19:46:02 < Steffanx> welcome mawk. did the xmas holiday begin?
2019-12-20T19:46:10 < mawk> not for me
2019-12-20T19:46:12 < Steffanx> awh
2019-12-20T19:46:18 < mawk> I will work like a slave when the others are away
2019-12-20T19:46:21 < mawk> well I tool 3 days
2019-12-20T19:46:28 < mawk> so I have 24 25 26 30 31 1 in total
2019-12-20T19:46:52 < Steffanx> time to get stuff done :)
2019-12-20T19:47:01 < mawk> yes
2019-12-20T19:47:08 < mawk> mount more Ikea stuff
2019-12-20T19:47:15 < mawk> I have 1.5T of ikea furniture that came by truck
2019-12-20T19:47:21 < Steffanx> i mean at work. when no one is there to bug you
2019-12-20T19:47:41 < mawk> ah, well I still have much archaeology to do at work
2019-12-20T19:47:42 < Steffanx> but yeah, there is the house too
2019-12-20T19:47:46 < mawk> even the guys here have no clue about the old code
2019-12-20T19:48:03 < Steffanx> hah, the new guy gets to do the shitty jobs
2019-12-20T19:48:18 < mawk> lol
2019-12-20T19:48:24 < mawk> well I cherry picked the less horrible stuff
2019-12-20T19:48:29 < mawk> no php dev for me
2019-12-20T19:48:33 < Steffanx> haha
2019-12-20T19:48:49 < mawk> I'm working on some rasberry pi computer vision thingie
2019-12-20T19:48:59 < mawk> stereo vision
2019-12-20T19:49:09 < Cracki> on a raspi? heh
2019-12-20T19:49:19 < mawk> yeah
2019-12-20T19:49:24 < Cracki> depth calculation costs some crunch
2019-12-20T19:49:58 < mawk> the rpi are underclocked to fit the power supply, but anyway the calculation just takes 2 seconds per cycle
2019-12-20T19:50:04 < mawk> what takes time is acquisition from the shitty cameras
2019-12-20T19:50:06 < Cracki> o.o 2 secs
2019-12-20T19:50:10 < mawk> like 15s per camera
2019-12-20T19:50:15 < Cracki> wtf what
2019-12-20T19:50:18 < Cracki> why
2019-12-20T19:50:21 < mawk> at 8 megapixels
2019-12-20T19:50:23 < Cracki> no usb cam takes that long
2019-12-20T19:50:28 < Cracki> no ethernet cam takes that long
2019-12-20T19:50:36 < mawk> yeah I'm not sure why
2019-12-20T19:50:53 < mawk> the cameras are extremely cheap, the pi is underclocked, it's pi 3b so the usb bandwidth is max 300Mbps
2019-12-20T19:51:05 < Cracki> random usb webcams can run at 1920x1080 30fps in mjpeg
2019-12-20T19:51:08 < Cracki> or more
2019-12-20T19:51:20 < Cracki> 300 Mbit/s is still plenty
2019-12-20T19:51:29 < mawk> yeah I did the calculations it looks plenty
2019-12-20T19:51:36 < Cracki> how do you access
2019-12-20T19:51:50 < mawk> the cameras ? with opencv
2019-12-20T19:52:00 < Cracki> VideoCapture(0)?
2019-12-20T19:52:11 < Cracki> give it a +4200 or something to choose backend
2019-12-20T19:52:14 < mawk> I guess yes, I didn't look too much at that part of the code
2019-12-20T19:52:19 < Cracki> docs list that near VideoCapture docs
2019-12-20T19:52:23 < BrainDamage> are you getting a raw bitstream or the encoded one?
2019-12-20T19:52:30 < mawk> but they already tried every backend and they selected the fastest
2019-12-20T19:52:31 < Cracki> so it's code some random person wrote
2019-12-20T19:52:36 < mawk> apparently
2019-12-20T19:52:38 < Cracki> "they" likely have no clue
2019-12-20T19:52:38 < mawk> yeah
2019-12-20T19:52:40 < BrainDamage> because if it's uncompressed frames, I can understand why it's slow
2019-12-20T19:53:05 < Cracki> 8e6*24 / 300e6 is 0.64 seconds per image if uncompressed
2019-12-20T19:53:19 < Cracki> that's far from >10 seconds per acq
2019-12-20T19:53:33 < Cracki> and any old webcam can do mjpeg
2019-12-20T19:53:50 < mawk> they went for the absolute cheapest camera they could find
2019-12-20T19:54:04 < mawk> which is part of the issue
2019-12-20T19:54:21 < Cracki> the cheapest you can find is a c920 which does full HD at 30 fps in H.264
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2019-12-20T19:54:30 < Steffanx> dutch-cheap skates :D
2019-12-20T19:54:31 < Cracki> so it can run on 12 Mbit/s usb theoretically
2019-12-20T19:54:42 < mawk> they are cameras with no housing Cracki
2019-12-20T19:54:47 < Cracki> ah those
2019-12-20T19:54:48 < mawk> just the pcb and the sensor with lense
2019-12-20T19:54:55 < Cracki> perhaps exposure time limits frame rate
2019-12-20T19:55:27 < Cracki> some don't limit their exposure time to a full frame, they can give you time lapses
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2019-12-20T19:55:39 < Cracki> perhaps driver is shit
2019-12-20T19:55:46 < Cracki> open the cam in vlc or something
2019-12-20T19:56:14 < Cracki> v4l2 interface should be standard and if that is also shit when you open it with vlc or other... it's not opencv's fault :>
2019-12-20T19:56:31 < Cracki> I also wouldn't be surprised if the code that uses opencv is to blame
2019-12-20T19:56:49 < mawk> yeah I should look at it one day
2019-12-20T19:56:53 < Cracki> profiler, or manual time measuring perhaps
2019-12-20T19:56:54 < mawk> when I finished archaeology
2019-12-20T19:58:09 < Steffanx> the company isnt that old, is it?
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2019-12-20T19:58:56 < mawk> the brand is ELP
2019-12-20T19:59:00 < mawk> 12 years Steffanx
2019-12-20T19:59:59 < englishman> congrats mawk on escaping france
2019-12-20T20:00:07 < mawk> lol thanks
2019-12-20T20:00:20 < englishman> will you get a kitty
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2019-12-20T20:00:56 < Steffanx> he got into the shithole called dutchland. not sure if he really escaped anything.
2019-12-20T20:02:30 < mawk> I already have a cat englishman
2019-12-20T20:02:40 < Steffanx> street cat?
2019-12-20T20:03:40 < englishman> why don't you post pix of it like a normal person then
2019-12-20T20:08:42 < mawk> a regular cat Steffanx
2019-12-20T20:08:58 < Steffanx> does it meow in french?
2019-12-20T20:09:25 < mawk> yes she doesn't say "meow" but "miaou"
2019-12-20T20:09:31 < Steffanx> :)
2019-12-20T20:10:10 < mawk> englishman: http://i.imgur.com/I2Ckj4er.jpg
2019-12-20T20:12:21 < Steffanx> is that some nice antique vase in teh back?
2019-12-20T20:12:43 < mawk> I don't know if it's antiquie
2019-12-20T20:13:32 < BrainDamage> ikea bag?
2019-12-20T20:13:55 < mawk> yeah
2019-12-20T20:14:03 < mawk> that goes with the 1.5T of ikea stuff
2019-12-20T20:14:40 < englishman> ty mawk
2019-12-20T20:14:47 < englishman> looks like a very high quality kitty
2019-12-20T20:16:20 < mawk> yes
2019-12-20T20:19:41 < Steffanx> and a real dopper.
2019-12-20T20:33:23 < mawk> I had it in france before
2019-12-20T20:37:34 < mawk> for the code Cracki it's in python but using the opencv C bindings, and what takes time is only the acquisition, like the single call to opencv to get the image data
2019-12-20T20:37:38 < mawk> I don't know how to optimize that
2019-12-20T20:37:43 < Cracki> uh
2019-12-20T20:37:45 < Cracki> show
2019-12-20T20:37:56 < Cracki> opencv's c bindings have been deprecated and removed for years
2019-12-20T20:37:58 < mawk> but they take like 10 frames or something and only keep the best or some stuff
2019-12-20T20:38:02 < Cracki> opencv has its own python bindings
2019-12-20T20:38:06 < Cracki> wat
2019-12-20T20:38:09 < Cracki> why such a waste
2019-12-20T20:38:23 < mawk> because the cameras are shitty so they have to run some kind of adapted exposure algorithm
2019-12-20T20:38:27 < mawk> I didn't look at that part of the code yet
2019-12-20T20:38:29 < Cracki> lol
2019-12-20T20:38:50 < Cracki> the most critical part of computer vision is decent acquisition
2019-12-20T20:38:56 < Cracki> shit in shit out, can't fix that
2019-12-20T20:39:19 < Cracki> all the people showing up in #opencv have shit acquisition and then ask how they can "fix it in software"
2019-12-20T20:39:27 < mawk> I think it's this one https://www.aliexpress.com/item/32841463365.html?spm=2114.12010612.8148356.1.3c5d2412VM51Qi
2019-12-20T20:39:51 < Cracki> that's decent webcam quality
2019-12-20T20:40:03 < Cracki> I doubt that's the problem. whoever wrote the code probably just dicked around
2019-12-20T20:40:18 < mawk> since they order in bulk they have it for like $20 or $30
2019-12-20T20:40:56 < Cracki> ah, max image transfer rate is shit
2019-12-20T20:40:58 < Cracki> even with mjpeg
2019-12-20T20:41:08 -!- BrainDamage [~BrainDama@unaffiliated/braindamage] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds]
2019-12-20T20:41:09 < mawk> since it's stereo vision the two frames needs to be similar enough otherwise they're dropped and trying again
2019-12-20T20:41:11 < mawk> and the image to be stable too but that's not an issue
2019-12-20T20:41:34 < Cracki> I did my bachelor's thesis implementing stereo vision
2019-12-20T20:41:46 < mawk> yes
2019-12-20T20:41:51 < mawk> I figured that out
2019-12-20T20:41:54 < Cracki> :P
2019-12-20T20:42:39 < Cracki> 3264X2448 MJPEG 15fps
2019-12-20T20:42:43 < Cracki> that is plenty
2019-12-20T20:42:57 < Cracki> eh ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
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2019-12-20T20:43:19 < mawk> but MJPEG is lossy no ?
2019-12-20T20:43:42 < Cracki> yes but all of optics is
2019-12-20T20:44:03 < Cracki> without any facts I can't judge
2019-12-20T20:44:05 < mawk> they want the greatest resolution possible, otherwise they have to put more cameras
2019-12-20T20:44:11 < mawk> yes I'll measure it precisely
2019-12-20T20:44:21 < Cracki> my guess is they had no fucking clue about image proecssing and dicked it all up
2019-12-20T20:44:51 < Cracki> if they did, they wouldn't have wasted so much effort and so much performance
2019-12-20T20:44:59 < Cracki> sounds like you're passing on their excuses for failure
2019-12-20T20:45:29 < Cracki> it really takes some effort to find a camera that's absolutely useless. 90s webcams would fit the bill.
2019-12-20T20:45:43 < Cracki> that camera is probably crisp and all that.
2019-12-20T20:46:29 < Cracki> same sensor: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oeJyx0wih2c
2019-12-20T20:58:02 < mawk> I'll read the code
2019-12-20T21:03:59 < Cracki> I'm curious ^^
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2019-12-20T21:07:38 < aandrew> that's quite a difference
2019-12-20T21:08:28 < Cracki> diff in exposure and white balance
2019-12-20T21:08:36 < Cracki> no substantial diff in noise
2019-12-20T21:08:51 < Cracki> or even noticeable
2019-12-20T21:09:28 < Cracki> focal lengths look different too but that's just the lens
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2019-12-20T22:05:35 < qyx> sweet kitty
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--- Day changed Sat Dec 21 2019
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2019-12-21T00:45:55 < Cracki> pressure washer porn https://youtu.be/WwUT85IHYTI?t=600
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2019-12-21T01:40:43 < catphish> there's a weird note in the USB mass storage specification "Note that the Subclass code values used in the bInterfaceSubClass field specify the industry-standard specification that defines transport command sets transported by the interface; these Subclass codes do not specify a type of storage device (such as a CD-ROM or floppy disk drive). "
2019-12-21T01:40:58 < catphish> no advice is offered about how one *does* specify the device type :(
2019-12-21T01:43:07 < catphish> the subclass code list even says "04h - USB Floppy Interface (UFI) - Specifies how to interface Floppy Disk Drives to USB. " screw you committee
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2019-12-21T01:44:14 < catphish> clearly this *does* specify a floppy device, since SCSI AFAIK can't
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2019-12-21T01:53:59 < zyp> catphish, I figure what they mean is that the field doesn't specify the type of device, just which protocol
2019-12-21T01:54:40 < zyp> and then some of the protocols naturally imply a specific type of device
2019-12-21T01:55:02 < zyp> while others doesn't
2019-12-21T01:55:16 < catphish> zyp: yeah, that definitely seems to be the case, it's just a bit silly that they specifically mention floppy disks, when in fact the only way to specofy a floppy disk is to specify that protocol
2019-12-21T01:55:33 < zyp> which means that even if UFI exists, you could still have another protocol that also supports floppies
2019-12-21T01:56:06 < catphish> well that's the irritating part that i'm dealing with, regular SCSI has no way to define a floppy disk :(
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2019-12-21T01:56:19 < zyp> I mean, consider that there's multiple possible protocols for normal drives
2019-12-21T01:56:31 < catphish> so i'm having to change to UFI (which luckily is basically a subset of scsi anyway)
2019-12-21T01:56:32 < zyp> e.g. BBB and UAS
2019-12-21T01:56:58 < zyp> or was it called BOT in official docs?
2019-12-21T01:57:32 < catphish> BOT i believe
2019-12-21T01:57:55 < catphish> luckily BBB/BOT supports everything and is recommended for all new devices
2019-12-21T01:58:49 < zyp> uh, I thought UAS was the shit nowadays?
2019-12-21T01:59:30 < catphish> oh, i don't know, i was thinking of CBI, which is the old one
2019-12-21T01:59:43 < catphish> dunno if there's something newer than BOT
2019-12-21T01:59:49 < catphish> could be
2019-12-21T01:59:56 < zyp> yeah
2019-12-21T02:00:05 < zyp> BOT is the normal kind of MSC
2019-12-21T02:00:12 < zyp> that most shit does
2019-12-21T02:00:26 < zyp> my understanding is that even UAS devices generally has BOT as a fallback mode
2019-12-21T02:00:55 < zyp> UAS is newer, optimized for higher performance
2019-12-21T02:01:14 < catphish> makes sense
2019-12-21T02:02:19 < zyp> AFAIK the main difference is that BOT does a blocking request/response pattern, UAS is async, allowing to have multiple commands inflight at the same time
2019-12-21T02:02:47 < zyp> I believe it was created at some point after USB3, since BOT became a bottleneck
2019-12-21T02:03:50 < zyp> also AFAIK they are just different ways of transporting SCSI commands
2019-12-21T02:03:58 < zyp> so the SCSI layer is the same
2019-12-21T02:04:19 < qyx> zyp: did you manage to list your pcie signals yet
2019-12-21T02:04:43 < zyp> qyx, to create a pinout, you mean?
2019-12-21T02:06:20 < zyp> just the list is simple; two power rails, usb2 dm/dp/id, i2c scl/sda
2019-12-21T02:07:06 < zyp> I'm also a bit tempted to allocate a few pins to indicate slot number from the backplane
2019-12-21T02:08:01 < zyp> i.e. just tie them to ground or let them float
2019-12-21T02:08:37 < zyp> could be useful e.g. to assign i2c addrs
2019-12-21T02:09:19 < zyp> not necessary for usb cards, host already knows which port on the backplane hub they talk to
2019-12-21T02:12:27 < qyx> I started a file https://github.com/iqyx/natwatch/blob/develop/nwr_platform_spec.md
2019-12-21T02:12:36 < qyx> we may agree at least on the connector pinout :P
2019-12-21T02:13:04 < qyx> or better, I already have some boards :P
2019-12-21T02:13:45 < qyx> so far I have 5V rail known, some GNDs, SMBus/I2C and thats about all
2019-12-21T02:14:24 < Cracki> ... CD ROM drive that accepts floppy protocol and v/v
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2019-12-21T02:17:03 < upgrdman> antidongs pros: wtf did i do, that now pcb 3d view does not show any 3d models? it only shows the flat pcb, no cad models on top
2019-12-21T02:18:14 < qyx> you deleted the kicad 3D directory
2019-12-21T02:18:47 < upgrdman> oh found it
2019-12-21T02:18:55 < upgrdman> "shift-z" toggles that
2019-12-21T02:19:04 < upgrdman> i must have done that when i meant ctrl-z
2019-12-21T02:19:42 < h4x0riz3d> did you press S/T?
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2019-12-21T02:27:04 < specing> lol musk: "Reason Cybertruck is so planar is that you can?t stamp ultra-hard 30X steel, because it breaks the stamping press"
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2019-12-21T02:53:07 < Cracki> so he's having all that welded or what
2019-12-21T02:53:52 < doomba> only if it's robot welders
2019-12-21T02:53:57 < Cracki> it's still sheet metal
2019-12-21T02:54:52 < Cracki> "30x steel" https://teslamotorsclub.com/tmc/threads/what-is-30x-steel.175281/
2019-12-21T02:58:16 < qyx> so it is a generic 301 3mm thick steel?
2019-12-21T02:59:41 < Cracki> my layman ass would guess it's got some spring in it too
2019-12-21T02:59:54 < Ultrasauce> >Just as likely that 30 times is as significant as 420.
2019-12-21T02:59:55 < Ultrasauce> weed amirite
2019-12-21T03:00:38 < doomba> all the elysiumfuckers driving around in their cybertrucks thinking they're bulletproof.
2019-12-21T03:00:53 < doomba> they don't realize that the have-nots will just start using armor piercing ammo
2019-12-21T03:01:11 < Cracki> how about jet fuel
2019-12-21T03:01:35 < Cracki> or simply rocks. those windows look like the weak point
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2019-12-21T03:06:05 < catphish> arfgh i rewrite my device to use UFI for usb, and windows still thinks its a hard drive :(
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2019-12-21T03:21:45 < Thorn> win8 microshafted its own system partition so I installed win10 and altium disaster 20
2019-12-21T03:27:53 < catphish> https://imgur.com/a/D39HFDz << windows no likey floppy
2019-12-21T03:29:18 < Thorn> use tape https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CEL8wnW5uvs
2019-12-21T03:32:40 < catphish> ooo cool
2019-12-21T03:34:11 < Thorn> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=O7ogM91QCH4
2019-12-21T03:36:53 < qyx> why does the direction changes so often
2019-12-21T03:44:11 < Thorn> https://drive.google.com/file/d/1LAjaDDViFG4H7dQ6PQVHo8XSQHS59GJf/view released for free by author
2019-12-21T03:47:31 < Thorn> https://blog.st.com/stm32mp1-bytes-at-work/
2019-12-21T03:47:44 < Cracki> those reels are spinning very fast. are they *that* light or is this really good servocontrol from the tensioning arm?
2019-12-21T03:47:56 < Cracki> qyx, must be seeking
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2019-12-21T04:44:50 < Cracki> anyone used one of those tiny I2S mems microphones, INMP441 (invensense) maybe? I'm wondering how good they sound
2019-12-21T04:46:22 < Cracki> in particular, data sheet indicates that I'd expect noise at ~32 dB SPL
2019-12-21T04:50:55 < aandrew> Thorn: I'm sticking with AD17, 18+ has spyware shit that reports back to the motherhsip
2019-12-21T04:51:35 < aandrew> that top reel looks to be on backward
2019-12-21T04:51:58 < aandrew> oh maybe not
2019-12-21T04:52:27 < aandrew> ooh fundamentals of control is a great youtube series
2019-12-21T04:53:01 < englishman> altidumb 20 or gtfo
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2019-12-21T04:59:25 < jadew> sup?
2019-12-21T05:02:26 < Cracki> erasing some oldish memory cards that seem to contain shit flash
2019-12-21T05:02:33 < Cracki> (transcend from ~2015)
2019-12-21T05:03:46 < Cracki> people debate altium, how windows recognizes a usb floppy as something else, and what secret alloy this "30x steel" on the cybertruck could be
2019-12-21T05:04:20 < jadew> thanks for the update
2019-12-21T05:04:27 < jadew> so... not much, eh?
2019-12-21T05:04:35 < Cracki> neh
2019-12-21T05:05:05 < Cracki> >https://drive.google.com/file/d/1LAjaDDViFG4H7dQ6PQVHo8XSQHS59GJf/view released for free by author
2019-12-21T05:05:11 < Cracki> but that
2019-12-21T05:05:45 < jadew> neat, thanks
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2019-12-21T05:26:27 < jadew> this period of the year always saddens me
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2019-12-21T05:27:58 < jadew> it used to be all joy and fun, but that seems to change with every passing year
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2019-12-21T05:41:22 < jadew> btw, I contacted the Romanian company, they said they'll get back to me in January lol
2019-12-21T06:15:17 < Cracki> merry christmas
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2019-12-21T06:16:32 < Cracki> the electricity company I got power from in 2018 went belly up early 2019. the insolvency manager has trouble sending out 600k bills before january
2019-12-21T06:17:51 < Cracki> good news, they're squeezing those who haven't paid their bills yet and it's mostly successful
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2019-12-21T08:25:30 < emeb_mac> whereas in the US the federal tax collection agency (IRS) has specifically stated that it's too hard to go after billionaires who cheat on their taxes, so instead they focus on auditing middle class folk who can't fight back.
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2019-12-21T11:47:38 < catphish> Cracki: we have a super short time limit on billing people for energy in the uk, short enough that if they go insolvent, it's pretty much impossible that an administrator will send bills in time!
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2019-12-21T11:48:52 < catphish> oh, it's 12 months, not *that* short, but certainly tight
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2019-12-21T12:16:09 < Steffanx> jadew: what if it's just you changing?
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2019-12-21T12:52:43 < tcth> how are you feeling today, Steffanx ?
2019-12-21T12:52:56 < Steffanx> Im good ty. There?
2019-12-21T12:53:40 < tcth> too!
2019-12-21T12:54:16 < Steffanx> \o/
2019-12-21T12:57:49 < ub|k> PaulFertser: regarding this ITM thing... my STM3F4DISCO chinese rip-off doesn't seem to have such a solder bridge
2019-12-21T12:58:28 < PaulFertser> ub|k: can you just check connectivity between the target's pin and the SWO pin on "STlink header"?
2019-12-21T13:00:23 < ub|k> no multimeter here, i'll check after. thanks :)
2019-12-21T13:06:29 < PaulFertser> ub|k: you can add a jump wire just in case
2019-12-21T13:06:36 < PaulFertser> ub|k: from target's SWO directly to the header.
2019-12-21T13:06:40 < PaulFertser> Shouldn't harm.
2019-12-21T13:07:02 < PaulFertser> ub|k: did you forget to take DMM along on xmas vacation?
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2019-12-21T14:02:52 < Cracki> catphish, around here they only send yearly bills, while asking for estimate+10-20% every month for 11 months, so you "get back" some money on the 12th month. it's basically a free loan to the company.
2019-12-21T14:03:40 < Cracki> and that particular company, although we were with them for 13 months or so, not once sent a bill
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2019-12-21T14:05:21 < Cracki> we're expecting for a first-year bonus, which is why this is particularly important
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2019-12-21T14:26:42 < karlp> ub|k: what is this stm32f4disco ripoff you have?
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2019-12-21T14:44:26 < qyx> here it is the same for most of "energies" (heat, electricity, gas)
2019-12-21T14:45:19 < qyx> you are prepaying monthly based on some computations from the previous year and then they send you/ask for the difference yearly
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2019-12-21T14:52:50 < Steffanx> yeah, exactly the same here.
2019-12-21T14:57:33 < tcth> same here
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2019-12-21T15:10:48 < Cracki> feels like banking. up to some years ago, a simple transaction took days. ancient systems slowly catching up to customer demand. I wonder if the new electricity meter we get is gonna be "smart"
2019-12-21T15:23:03 < tcth> +1 for using quotation marks
2019-12-21T15:24:21 < zyp> that sounds annoying
2019-12-21T15:24:30 < zyp> I'm postpaying based on actual usage
2019-12-21T15:25:19 < tcth> we have pre-paying (+ post-delta) for heating and post-paying for electricity...
2019-12-21T15:25:33 < zyp> i.e. december bill charges for november usage and december monthly fee
2019-12-21T15:26:27 < Steffanx> The only relevant thing is it being easy for them ofcourse. They get their money on a monthly basis.
2019-12-21T15:27:31 < Steffanx> And in dutchland many still have old meters, so they have to check the actual usage. I can understand they dont want to do that monthly
2019-12-21T15:27:47 < Steffanx> check as in.. get an employee over.
2019-12-21T15:27:50 < zyp> the way I see it, paying for an estimate and settling later is a legacy thing, due to old meters
2019-12-21T15:27:57 < zyp> really, they do that?
2019-12-21T15:28:23 < zyp> over here people used to self-report
2019-12-21T15:28:23 < tcth> zyp, why do you think that´s related to old meters?
2019-12-21T15:28:39 < zyp> tcth, because of what Steffanx said
2019-12-21T15:28:44 < Steffanx> Yes, but self-reporting every month sounds even more annoying.
2019-12-21T15:28:52 < tcth> self-report is not something that I would expect to work well outside of the northern european countries :D
2019-12-21T15:28:55 < qyx> we do not do self reporting
2019-12-21T15:29:06 < Steffanx> especially since here the water meter for example is under the floor.
2019-12-21T15:29:13 < qyx> they are comming annually to check gas and water
2019-12-21T15:29:24 < qyx> electricity is over gsm
2019-12-21T15:29:24 < zyp> I don't even have a water meter
2019-12-21T15:29:40 < Steffanx> lolwut
2019-12-21T15:30:28 < Steffanx> how does that work? Water is free?
2019-12-21T15:30:38 < qyx> tcth: in our flat we have radiator heat meters which generate a sort of hash together with a number of joules
2019-12-21T15:30:39 < Steffanx> or just pay for x and get y?
2019-12-21T15:30:49 < zyp> I could opt to get a water meter installed
2019-12-21T15:31:08 < qyx> they can check if your self reported number is correct
2019-12-21T15:31:09 < zyp> since I don't have one, I pay for a fixed rate of 150 m3 per year or something like that
2019-12-21T15:31:15 < Steffanx> ah
2019-12-21T15:31:30 < zyp> hang on, let me find the rates
2019-12-21T15:32:09 < zyp> yeah
2019-12-21T15:32:10 < zyp> https://www.grimstad.kommune.no/tjenester/naring-bevilling-skatt-og-gebyrer/kommunale-avgifter-og-gebyrer/vann-og-avlopsgebyr/
2019-12-21T15:34:09 < zyp> water meter not required for houses smaller than 500m2, they get charged for a fixed 150m3 usage
2019-12-21T15:34:31 < Cracki> do you have any idea where your real usage is?
2019-12-21T15:34:47 < Cracki> they probably have a good average over their customer base
2019-12-21T15:34:54 < Steffanx> i imagine zyp is in " i dont care about that" mode :P
2019-12-21T15:35:04 < zyp> I could opt to have a water meter installed, and would then have to pay rent for it, in addition to the actual rate
2019-12-21T15:35:24 < zyp> the rent seems to be equivalent to around 18m3 or so
2019-12-21T15:35:29 < Cracki> "northern european countries" indeed. nobody wastes stuff. one just uses it as is convenient.
2019-12-21T15:35:35 < zyp> so I'd have to use less than 132m3 to break even
2019-12-21T15:36:06 < zyp> and no, since I don't have a water meter, I have no idea what the actual usage is
2019-12-21T15:36:19 < Thorn> self reporting meter reading is standard in Russia
2019-12-21T15:36:19 < Cracki> heh
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2019-12-21T15:36:29 < englishman> hello Saturday innovators
2019-12-21T15:36:34 < zyp> so anyway
2019-12-21T15:36:47 < Cracki> they let us self report here too but they still only do a yearly balance calculation
2019-12-21T15:37:02 < zyp> back to electricity meters, it is now mandated here that they are reporting automatically on a hourly basis
2019-12-21T15:37:04 < Cracki> at least you can adjust your monthly payment
2019-12-21T15:37:23 < Cracki> I would want that data for my own use too
2019-12-21T15:37:42 < englishman> I carry my water up a hill from the stream and heat it on an open fire
2019-12-21T15:38:23 < englishman> do working people get Christmas bonuses/raises
2019-12-21T15:38:52 < zyp> like a temporary raise or what?
2019-12-21T15:38:59 < doomba> no. why would they?
2019-12-21T15:39:04 < englishman> I got a salary raise yesterday
2019-12-21T15:39:09 < doomba> bonuses and raises are only for the elysium class
2019-12-21T15:39:21 < zyp> I get my annual salary adjustment in june, not in december
2019-12-21T15:39:29 < englishman> it's a big raise, like 10%, but it's still a raise
2019-12-21T15:39:51 < englishman> ah, but still annually, I guess it goes with a review?
2019-12-21T15:40:30 < Steffanx> Your boss helps you pay for that Tesla englishman. Because he likes Teslas.
2019-12-21T15:40:36 < englishman> I think so yes
2019-12-21T15:41:08 < zyp> I'm not sure what you mean by review, usually it goes like my boss is telling me «we're happy with what you're doing and here's your new salary figure»
2019-12-21T15:41:31 < englishman> they take the time to talk to everyone and listen to their concerns
2019-12-21T15:41:51 < Steffanx> for me it works like that yes. and they seemed happy, incl. the raise.
2019-12-21T15:41:54 < englishman> which didn't really matter to me I guess since I usually deal with grievances swiftly
2019-12-21T15:42:08 < zyp> oh, yeah, there's probably ome of that too
2019-12-21T15:42:24 < zyp> «do you have any concerns?» «not really, no»
2019-12-21T15:42:44 < Steffanx> you didnt complain about msp430? DAMN?
2019-12-21T15:42:55 < englishman> they wanted me to do more programming and I said no, I fucking hate msp430 and you are retarded to choose it
2019-12-21T15:42:57 < englishman> I did
2019-12-21T15:42:58 < englishman> lol
2019-12-21T15:43:05 < zyp> we're a four man company and I'm the only non-owner
2019-12-21T15:43:07 < Steffanx> hah good
2019-12-21T15:43:33 < englishman> oh that's a small company
2019-12-21T15:43:39 < englishman> pretty cool zyp
2019-12-21T15:43:43 < zyp> and everybody lives at least 300km from each other
2019-12-21T15:43:58 < zyp> so I rarely even see my coworkers :p
2019-12-21T15:44:18 < englishman> r&d dept will pass 30 people next year at my co
2019-12-21T15:45:25 < zyp> I really like the flexibility I've got, I've been almost exclusively working from home since I had a kid
2019-12-21T15:45:32 < englishman> yes that sounds wonderful
2019-12-21T15:45:33 < Steffanx> dont you want people to talk to, except for ##stm32, zyp?
2019-12-21T15:45:55 < zyp> but it's a bit inconvenient to be the only software guy
2019-12-21T15:46:03 < Steffanx> That indeed
2019-12-21T15:46:09 < englishman> all the glory and all the blame
2019-12-21T15:46:40 < zyp> it means that if shit needs to get done, I need to do it
2019-12-21T15:48:15 < zyp> OTOH I guess my coworker has it worse
2019-12-21T15:48:50 < zyp> he's the only simulink guy, and his shit needs a lot more tweaking than my shit :p
2019-12-21T15:49:08 < englishman> is that some LabVIEW style soft
2019-12-21T15:49:19 < zyp> kinda, I guess
2019-12-21T15:50:12 < zyp> his shit is a mix of graphical shit and matlab code, and it all gets shat out as a pile of generated C code that I stack onto the software platform I built
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2019-12-21T15:54:43 < englishman> hmm the Jetson nano is kinda expensive
2019-12-21T15:54:56 < englishman> they sure teased everyone with the $100 devboard
2019-12-21T15:55:07 < englishman> I thought it'd be $50
2019-12-21T15:55:29 < englishman> is there anything else equally small and powerful?
2019-12-21T15:55:36 < englishman> and <5W
2019-12-21T16:04:32 < doomba> powerful in what sense?
2019-12-21T16:04:42 < zyp> TDP
2019-12-21T16:10:41 < qyx> ol
2019-12-21T16:12:12 < englishman> usb3, gige, lots of ram, 500gflops
2019-12-21T16:13:30 < englishman> usb3 being important I guess
2019-12-21T16:13:46 < Steffanx> what is lots of wam?
2019-12-21T16:14:12 < zyp> 640kB
2019-12-21T16:14:15 < englishman> imx8 is still usb2 looks like
2019-12-21T16:14:24 < qyx> speaking of ram, gige and imx8
2019-12-21T16:14:24 < englishman> enough ram for lunix
2019-12-21T16:14:36 < qyx> do we know any other small boards than this one? http://www.myirtech.com/list.asp?id=617
2019-12-21T16:14:58 < englishman> qyx: technexion
2019-12-21T16:15:02 < qyx> and this http://www.myirtech.com/list.asp?id=572
2019-12-21T16:16:50 < qyx> ok 40x40 for imx8 is indeed small
2019-12-21T16:17:00 < qyx> ty
2019-12-21T16:17:10 < qyx> does it cost less than 0.5M?
2019-12-21T16:21:44 < Cracki> wew A72 x2, A53 x4, M4F x2, and some gpu
2019-12-21T16:22:28 < Cracki> nxp says imx8 has usb 3
2019-12-21T16:37:57 < doomba> https://www.pine64.org/devices/single-board-computers/rock64/
2019-12-21T17:01:37 < englishman> qyx: 0.5m?
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2019-12-21T17:15:20 < qyx> half a millionm
2019-12-21T17:15:48 < englishman> yeah a bit less bux
2019-12-21T17:16:28 < qyx> pine is large
2019-12-21T17:30:55 < catphish> Cracki: luckily things are super flexible with my energy, they bill every month, either based on an estimate or (optionally, if you prefer) an accurate meter reading you send them with a simple online form, but then you don't have to pay that bill every month, they encourage you to instead guess your annual usage and send them 1/12th of it every month, an amount you can adjust however you see fit
2019-12-21T17:31:23 < catphish> if you end up too far in credit or debt they ask you to cange the amount
2019-12-21T17:31:30 < Cracki> wew
2019-12-21T17:31:37 < Cracki> what utopia is that
2019-12-21T17:31:53 < Cracki> that doesn't work outside of ethnostates
2019-12-21T17:32:37 < catphish> well, anyone can (re)sell energy in the UK (with a cheap licence), so there are loads of companies all trying to be as helpful and/or cheap as possible to get your business
2019-12-21T17:33:37 < Cracki> as cheap as possible can result in the fuckface crooks that sold me electricity and now owe me money
2019-12-21T17:34:02 < catphish> well yeah, plenty of people just choose the absolute cheapest then get screwed later by admin errors and incompetence
2019-12-21T17:34:42 < Cracki> where money is involved, always assume criminal motivation
2019-12-21T17:34:47 < catphish> i use with a company that only buys from renewable sources, and while moderately cheap, not the cheapest, also has great online admin systems / customer service
2019-12-21T17:35:19 < Cracki> yeh the seller I'm with now is "brand name", oldish, established
2019-12-21T17:35:37 < catphish> it would be a super easy business to get into, but unfortunately consumers are also idiots, and you'd have to deal with endless people who don't pay their bills :(
2019-12-21T17:35:43 < Cracki> idc about the source of the energy. I would pick 100% nuclear if i could but nobody sells that.
2019-12-21T17:36:03 < catphish> i would also be happy with 100% nuclear, but it's rarely offered as an option
2019-12-21T17:36:16 < catphish> so i get 100% renewable
2019-12-21T17:36:49 < Cracki> 100% nuclear would not be sustainable (!) because nuclear can't follow load as quickly as some other stuff, but for baseline it's excellent
2019-12-21T17:36:58 < catphish> i always thought it would be fun to let people choose theur own energy mix
2019-12-21T17:37:26 < Cracki> I'm really really pissed at all the dumb idiots who made us get out of nuclear because THEY caused us to build new coal plants
2019-12-21T17:37:38 < Cracki> there are literally coal plants being built and put online rn in my country
2019-12-21T17:37:57 < Cracki> and these dumb fucks rather rallied against nuclear than coal back when they did
2019-12-21T17:39:05 < catphish> "100% renewable" is kind of a lie, obviously when they're not generating, you're using nuclear, but they buy and sell "renewable credits" so that ultimately your money goes to the renewable generators anyway
2019-12-21T17:39:50 < Cracki> some bigwig in Extinction Rebellion recently lost his shit over what their message is. grunts think they're ecoterrorists. they're actually not. they are trying to punish europe for past sins.
2019-12-21T17:44:50 < Cracki> https://medium.com/extinction-rebellion/extinction-rebellion-isnt-about-the-climate-42a0a73d9d49
2019-12-21T17:45:36 < Cracki> complete inversion of truth
2019-12-21T17:45:40 < Cracki> satanic
2019-12-21T17:46:24 < catphish> lol that headline is a bit mad
2019-12-21T17:47:50 < Steffanx> clickbait mate
2019-12-21T17:48:10 < Cracki> listen to him, he's an authority figure _in_ XR
2019-12-21T17:48:23 < Cracki> when your enemy says he will kill you, believe him
2019-12-21T17:54:37 < bitmask> hi
2019-12-21T17:59:26 < Cracki> i love star wars now https://twitter.com/boobooben/status/1207889476174929921
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2019-12-21T18:04:42 < qyx> someone here computed if we close the last coal mine, let all workers go home, pay them the awerage wage for the rest of their life and make the electricity with some other method
2019-12-21T18:05:03 < qyx> if we closed.. it would acvtually be cheaber
2019-12-21T18:05:19 < Cracki> employ them to mine thorium instead
2019-12-21T18:05:19 < qyx> than to subsidy all that mining business
2019-12-21T18:05:30 < Cracki> or rare earth metals
2019-12-21T18:05:39 < Cracki> fuck the earth until exploded
2019-12-21T18:05:57 < doomba> bitmask: ok so i cleaned up the espasyncwebserver bullshit
2019-12-21T18:06:06 < doomba> made a class to put all the api stuff in
2019-12-21T18:06:08 < bitmask> no more crashes?
2019-12-21T18:06:10 < doomba> and it's no longer crashing
2019-12-21T18:06:13 < bitmask> nice
2019-12-21T18:06:16 < doomba> FOR NOW
2019-12-21T18:06:18 < doomba> rofl
2019-12-21T18:06:33 < doomba> what i've noticed is this asyncwebserver is flaky as a mofo
2019-12-21T18:07:09 < doomba> like code that is working fine now... i might end up adding more code that doesn't even touch or interact with the existing code in any noticable way
2019-12-21T18:07:13 < doomba> and it will crash
2019-12-21T18:07:36 < doomba> also there was a difference between curl and a browser
2019-12-21T18:07:59 < doomba> curl could create reflow profiles just fine but the browser sending the same json (but lots of additional headers) would crash it
2019-12-21T18:21:08 < catphish> qyx: if other alternatives are cheaper, why on earth would one use coal?
2019-12-21T18:31:03 -!- c10ud [~c10ud@emesene/dictator/c10ud] has joined ##stm32
2019-12-21T18:42:55 < qyx> because politics
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2019-12-21T18:49:56 < catphish> but who is paying for it?
2019-12-21T18:50:29 < catphish> like, i wouldn't go to my energy provider and say, "i know it sucks for the environment, but can i pay a bit more to protect the jobs of the coal miners please?"
2019-12-21T18:51:04 < catphish> i assume the actual reason is that "cheaper" is a long term calculation, and people don't have the cash available to build sustainable / nuclear
2019-12-21T18:56:44 < zyp> the customers are paying
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2019-12-21T20:13:26 < Cracki> who is paying for it? the tax payer
2019-12-21T20:13:29 < Cracki> subsidies
2019-12-21T20:13:57 < Cracki> >Conservative estimates put U.S. direct subsidies to the fossil fuel industry at roughly $20 billion per year; with 20 percent currently allocated to coal and 80 percent to natural gas and crude oil. European Union subsidies are estimated to total 55 billion euros annually
2019-12-21T20:14:02 < Cracki> https://www.eesi.org/papers/view/fact-sheet-fossil-fuel-subsidies-a-closer-look-at-tax-breaks-and-societal-costs
2019-12-21T20:17:09 < thardin> yes
2019-12-21T20:17:22 < thardin> neoliberalism.txt
2019-12-21T20:18:46 < Cracki> liberty for monopoly corporations but not for people
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2019-12-21T20:28:10 < tcth> please tell me more about how everything is bad
2019-12-21T20:28:35 < Cracki> that would require words that are permissible in this channel
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2019-12-21T20:32:45 -!- mode/##stm32 [+o tcth] by ChanServ
2019-12-21T20:32:46 <@tcth> go ahead :p
2019-12-21T20:32:46 < Cracki> rainbows! https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M1t0egTZY44
2019-12-21T20:32:46 < catphish> Cracki: but why? who would vote to literally prevent a move to renewable energy? :|
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2019-12-21T20:32:55 < catphish> i don't see the sense
2019-12-21T20:33:10 < Cracki> lobbying groups
2019-12-21T20:33:24 < Cracki> lobbying groups is how you get mountains of butter and seas of milk
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2019-12-21T20:33:55 < catphish> but how are they possibly able to pursuade people that this is a good idea
2019-12-21T20:34:03 < catphish> i'm clearly missing a piece of the puzzle
2019-12-21T20:34:20 < Thorn> catphish: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lL6uB1z95gA
2019-12-21T20:34:23 < Cracki> or someone says "these coal workers will end up in your social system unless you pay them"... so it's a social system, except they get to do something instead of sitting on their asses
2019-12-21T20:34:30 < Cracki> leverage
2019-12-21T20:35:00 < catphish> zyp: "customers are paying" this makes no sense, the resellers will surely choose whatever's cheap, there's no benefit to them in choosing inferior tech and passing along the cost to customers
2019-12-21T20:35:02 < Cracki> public opinion, or whatever counts for that in the eyes of whoever governs
2019-12-21T20:35:39 < catphish> isn't it better that those people are sat safely at home playing xbox instead of in a dangerous mine/power plant?
2019-12-21T20:35:59 < Steffanx> doesnt that make you fat?
2019-12-21T20:36:04 < catphish> and that assumes those same people are 100% incapable of learning how to work in the renewable sector
2019-12-21T20:36:20 < catphish> Steffanx: probably not
2019-12-21T20:36:31 < Cracki> nuclear is so "expensive" because of all the taxes on it. nuclear plants pay tax for storing burnt material, for each fuel element, ...
2019-12-21T20:36:33 < catphish> food makes you fat :)
2019-12-21T20:36:50 < catphish> i'm so confused
2019-12-21T20:37:21 < catphish> why are we bothering to talk about climate change, if governments are actively assisting fossil fuels?
2019-12-21T20:37:50 < Cracki> because talk, intention, and action are three entirely different things
2019-12-21T20:37:55 < catphish> why would they do that, and who would vote for anyone who would do that?
2019-12-21T20:37:55 < Cracki> they talk without intending.
2019-12-21T20:38:06 < catphish> it just seems like madness
2019-12-21T20:38:11 < catphish> i assume there *is* a reason
2019-12-21T20:38:17 < Cracki> they do that to keep you in a state of fear, anxiety, dread
2019-12-21T20:38:30 < Cracki> to keep you out of your mind, emotional, pliable and docile
2019-12-21T20:38:40 < Cracki> lest you see what's going on
2019-12-21T20:38:43 < catphish> but i'm none of those things
2019-12-21T20:39:04 < catphish> then again, i don't vote the way the majority does, so who knows, your conspiracy theory may be correct
2019-12-21T20:39:08 < Cracki> they just need you to buy into the propaganda
2019-12-21T20:39:17 < Cracki> look at who they target
2019-12-21T20:39:28 < Cracki> young people, too young to vote, still in school
2019-12-21T20:39:46 < Cracki> one might say impressionable
2019-12-21T20:40:15 < Cracki> back to subsidies... oil is powerful. that's why they can demand money.
2019-12-21T20:40:39 < Cracki> everyone who has power uses it to get special treatment
2019-12-21T20:40:58 < catphish> how are they powerful, that makes no sense
2019-12-21T20:41:07 < catphish> the people elect the officials, not the oil companies
2019-12-21T20:41:13 < catphish> right? right?
2019-12-21T20:41:15 < Cracki> so if you see special treatment, be it money, privileges, laws favoring particular groups... you know they rule you
2019-12-21T20:41:36 < Cracki> the people elect whoever they're given to elect.
2019-12-21T20:41:47 < BrainDamage> because people in charge of the oil supply can strangle a nation economically
2019-12-21T20:42:09 < catphish> ayone can stand though, they put forward a manifesto, people read each one, see which one seems the best for the country, or themselves, and votes accordingly, right???
2019-12-21T20:42:20 < Cracki> kek nah
2019-12-21T20:42:25 < qyx> catphish: energy prices are usually regulated
2019-12-21T20:42:35 < qyx> also
2019-12-21T20:42:36 < Cracki> again, politics is saying things while not meaning them
2019-12-21T20:42:45 < qyx> why would you charge less if they are willing to pay more
2019-12-21T20:42:50 < Cracki> ^
2019-12-21T20:42:50 < catphish> qyx: that much is true, but only at the consumer level, beyond that cheapest wins :)
2019-12-21T20:43:15 < BrainDamage> that reasoning is a bit naive
2019-12-21T20:43:31 < BrainDamage> market prices can be manipulated
2019-12-21T20:43:46 < BrainDamage> you can withold supply, you can collude between suppliers, etc etc
2019-12-21T20:44:00 < catphish> well yes and no, you can't magically make coal cheaper than somthing that's actually cheaper
2019-12-21T20:44:08 < catphish> unless you're willing to make a perpetual loss
2019-12-21T20:44:24 < BrainDamage> there's a huge margin between the base price and the market price
2019-12-21T20:44:44 < catphish> base price?
2019-12-21T20:44:58 < Cracki> price of production and labor
2019-12-21T20:45:06 < Cracki> diamond is cheap
2019-12-21T20:45:10 < BrainDamage> in a market, there's two prices, one is the price of production, labor and distribution
2019-12-21T20:45:12 < Cracki> marketing makes it expensive
2019-12-21T20:45:18 < BrainDamage> which is the minimum you can pay for it
2019-12-21T20:45:20 < Cracki> creating demand, constricting supply
2019-12-21T20:45:27 < BrainDamage> the other is what the market is willing to pay
2019-12-21T20:45:37 < BrainDamage> price cannot go lower than the first
2019-12-21T20:45:49 < Cracki> subsidy: if you pay less than base for something, someone else paid the difference
2019-12-21T20:45:51 < BrainDamage> but there can still be a huge gap between the two
2019-12-21T20:46:04 < Cracki> (not even less than base, just less than asking price)
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2019-12-21T20:46:16 < qyx> 19:38 < Cracki> to keep you out of your mind, emotional, pliable and docile
2019-12-21T20:46:17 < qyx> haha
2019-12-21T20:46:20 < qyx> I like this vocabulary
2019-12-21T20:46:32 < Cracki> hysterical, eh?
2019-12-21T20:46:33 < catphish> https://www.theguardian.com/environment/2019/jan/23/uk-has-biggest-fossil-fuel-subsidies-in-the-eu-finds-commission
2019-12-21T20:46:34 < catphish> ffs
2019-12-21T20:46:43 < Cracki> kek
2019-12-21T20:46:46 < catphish> but again, why?!
2019-12-21T20:46:47 < qyx> hence you are leaving
2019-12-21T20:46:58 < qyx> to avoid bad bad eu regulation
2019-12-21T20:47:00 < catphish> it makes no sense when we're committed to moving to renewable energy
2019-12-21T20:47:15 < Cracki> coal workers vote. they vote for those who secure their jobs.
2019-12-21T20:47:25 < Cracki> so if you want to be elected, you better give them subsidy
2019-12-21T20:47:40 < catphish> fossil fuel workers is a pretty small part of the electorate
2019-12-21T20:47:42 < Cracki> nobody is committed to actually doing it
2019-12-21T20:47:48 < Cracki> they're only committed to blabbing about it
2019-12-21T20:47:56 < catphish> ok, i get that they don't care
2019-12-21T20:48:05 < Cracki> single percents can do a lot
2019-12-21T20:48:10 < catphish> but why actively subsidize fossil fuel
2019-12-21T20:48:46 < Cracki> the subsidy has nothing to do with the stuff being fossil fuel, coal, ...
2019-12-21T20:48:52 < catphish> maybe single digit voters are fossil fuel workers (probably not) but 20,30%+ consider climate to be a voting priority
2019-12-21T20:49:03 < qyx> watň
2019-12-21T20:49:05 < Cracki> and everything to do with that stuff meaning influence
2019-12-21T20:49:08 < catphish> i suspect the truth is more complicated
2019-12-21T20:49:09 < qyx> I would expect 5% at most
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2019-12-21T20:49:20 < BrainDamage> catphish: oh and to add to the market thing, when you see a 'market crash', imagine a base price is 1, but you bought it at 10, market crashes to the base value of 1, and now 9/10 of your wealth are gone
2019-12-21T20:49:22 < qyx> the rest follow their own good
2019-12-21T20:49:29 < Cracki> is anyone giving you the option of voting against fossil fuel subsidy? no. so it stays.
2019-12-21T20:49:39 < Thorn> subway porn https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6q6PGOUdXVU
2019-12-21T20:50:14 < Cracki> but it's above ground!
2019-12-21T20:50:21 < catphish> green party got 2.7% of vote here, sadly we have bigger problems right now
2019-12-21T20:50:47 < Cracki> green party is bolsheviks. our greens voted against laws that would have benefited the environment.
2019-12-21T20:50:52 < qyx> having less than 5% here means not going to the parliament
2019-12-21T20:50:58 < Cracki> their name is a bald faced lie.
2019-12-21T20:51:16 < Cracki> green party isn't even ecoterrorism anymore
2019-12-21T20:51:17 < catphish> qyx: that's generally the case here too, but the green party maintain one seat somehow :)
2019-12-21T20:51:59 < Cracki> green party is getting votes from the bourgeois and not many others
2019-12-21T20:52:13 < catphish> i usually vota green
2019-12-21T20:52:25 < Cracki> no prole votes green, they vote labor
2019-12-21T20:52:28 < qyx> but I was surprised that EU elections here won a party with ~somewhat good environmental program
2019-12-21T20:52:32 < BrainDamage> generally, the people who can afford a green lifestyle are already moderately wealthy
2019-12-21T20:52:35 < Cracki> you're well educated, you're bourgeois
2019-12-21T20:53:00 < catphish> green = "wealthy left" i guess
2019-12-21T20:53:12 < Cracki> we're all part of the upper class given we're smart enough to operate IRC without a web interface :>
2019-12-21T20:53:18 < catphish> lol
2019-12-21T20:53:32 < Cracki> even the left isn't entirely worker-oriented anymore
2019-12-21T20:53:54 < Cracki> our demsocs are bourgeois too. they look down on proles.
2019-12-21T20:54:00 < catphish> nothing is that simple
2019-12-21T20:54:24 < catphish> i genuinely don't know who i should vote for any more
2019-12-21T20:54:45 < Cracki> vote for whoever gets the most irrational hate
2019-12-21T20:54:45 < BrainDamage> that is pretty common
2019-12-21T20:54:52 < catphish> i feel like we're moving towards a one party system :)
2019-12-21T20:55:20 < Thorn> the left aren't pro-worker any more because workers are men and Men Are Shit(tm)
2019-12-21T20:55:26 < Cracki> one ruling caste running all parties
2019-12-21T20:56:39 < Cracki> pick the color but goddamnit you are going to eat that shit sandwich
2019-12-21T20:57:12 < catphish> our conservatives are doing a fairly good job, and (apart from brexit) they're pretty centre, so they have pretty wide appeal, and brexit is popular, so they mop up some people who might otherwsise hate them
2019-12-21T20:57:49 < catphish> and they wiped out the extreme right, so that's a bonus
2019-12-21T20:58:26 < Cracki> unless they literally killed those people, they didn't wipe them out
2019-12-21T20:58:35 < Cracki> they still exist, and now you don't know where they are and what they do
2019-12-21T20:58:58 < catphish> i mean they got all the votes of those people by giving them a mild form of that they want
2019-12-21T20:59:02 < Cracki> suppression never works.
2019-12-21T20:59:18 < catphish> suppression works by compromise
2019-12-21T20:59:24 < Cracki> yes, pulling people to the center is the most effective way to control them
2019-12-21T20:59:33 < Cracki> i.e. to disarm them
2019-12-21T20:59:50 < Cracki> letting them do their own thing would threaten the status quo
2019-12-21T20:59:52 < catphish> it seems to be working here, and that pleases me
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2019-12-21T21:00:12 < Cracki> it keeps you away from civil war. other nations are scheduled for exactly that.
2019-12-21T21:00:16 < catphish> because i fear polarization
2019-12-21T21:00:23 < catphish> right
2019-12-21T21:00:44 < Thorn> LIVE: Update on Boeing Starliner from Jim Bridenstine https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gg13KZTVCEE
2019-12-21T21:00:45 < catphish> i'd rather everyone got a bit of what they want, rather than half getting everything, and the other half getting nothing
2019-12-21T21:00:52 < catphish> brexit was very bad in this way
2019-12-21T21:01:07 < catphish> but we'll recover from it
2019-12-21T21:01:24 < Cracki> bridenstine lost his nose cone
2019-12-21T21:01:30 < Cracki> round boi
2019-12-21T21:01:44 < Cracki> yay POTS quality muzak
2019-12-21T21:03:17 < qyx> what did
2019-12-21T21:03:36 < qyx> the capsule is lost?
2019-12-21T21:03:52 < qyx> (trying to find headphones)
2019-12-21T21:04:16 < Thorn> please press *0
2019-12-21T21:04:34 < Cracki> yes they fucked up, the thingy lost track of time and then panicked and wasted fuel
2019-12-21T21:04:53 < Cracki> now it can't meet ISS, it can only do the rest of the test, i.e. fly around and eventually land again
2019-12-21T21:05:04 < Cracki> i.e. drop in the desert with a parachute
2019-12-21T21:05:37 < qyx> at least they can attempt to recover the payload
2019-12-21T21:06:57 < Thorn> the payload is a feminist mannequin
2019-12-21T21:07:00 < BrainDamage> iss also has nearly perfect dock record
2019-12-21T21:07:05 < Thorn> do you really wish to recover it
2019-12-21T21:07:31 < BrainDamage> they don't really want to ruin that
2019-12-21T21:07:45 < BrainDamage> ( not to mention, the risk of damage )
2019-12-21T21:08:08 < Cracki> the paint on that thing hasn't even dried yet, they don't want that near them
2019-12-21T21:08:23 < qyx> don't you believe them
2019-12-21T21:08:29 < Cracki> with spacex at least you have first stages flown four times and all that
2019-12-21T21:09:08 < Thorn> they should have programmed their PBX with chiptunes
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2019-12-21T21:09:52 < Cracki> dragon capsules have flown up over a dozen resupply missions. not sure what boeing has done. I'm aware that someone has flown another dozen resupply missions up there, no idea who or if that tech is the same bloodline as that starliner thing
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2019-12-21T21:12:22 < qyx> now I am curious how did they manage to lost track of time
2019-12-21T21:17:28 < Cracki> listen now
2019-12-21T21:18:01 < Cracki> haha they read the wrong piece of memory?!
2019-12-21T21:18:05 < Thorn> he seems unsure about whether the entry is going to be successful
2019-12-21T21:18:14 < Cracki> entry?
2019-12-21T21:18:23 < Cracki> ah reentry
2019-12-21T21:18:54 < Cracki> it does need enough fuel for reentry... did they say how much they have left?
2019-12-21T21:19:08 < BrainDamage> unrelated, fucking lunix: Dec 21 03:25:04 alarmserver kernel: Unable to handle kernel NULL pointer dereference at virtual address 00000000
2019-12-21T21:19:52 < qyx> no wonder they managed to fukap MCAS too
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2019-12-21T21:24:06 < Cracki> "good prop margins" ok then
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2019-12-21T21:37:17 < Thorn> wait a second, he's saying Atlas "wasn't where it was supposed to be"?
2019-12-21T21:37:55 < Thorn> yesterday everyone was saying the booster performed perfectly
2019-12-21T21:40:35 < Cracki> where the capsule expected it to be
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2019-12-21T21:49:37 < Cracki> one question each. they're shoving the tip in
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2019-12-21T22:01:42 < mawk> you found a vuln BrainDamage ?
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2019-12-21T22:02:43 < BrainDamage> no, it was normal operation
2019-12-21T22:02:55 < BrainDamage> I don't know what triggered it
2019-12-21T22:03:20 < mawk> no kdump then ?
2019-12-21T22:04:36 < mawk> you could set up a nice .io vuln website and get publicity
2019-12-21T22:04:47 < BrainDamage> unless it saved to a file, I lost the data
2019-12-21T22:05:20 < mawk> expl0dingsh0ckwave.io by security researcher BrainD4m4g3-xoreaxeax
2019-12-21T22:06:11 < BrainDamage> I think it was in a dvb module operation
2019-12-21T22:06:25 < BrainDamage> because the automatic epg scanner was running immediately before
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2019-12-21T22:20:22 < Thorn> T - 16 h https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p3PTDpwuuao
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2019-12-21T22:27:24 < Cracki> cats?
2019-12-21T22:27:30 < Cracki> rats
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2019-12-21T22:38:13 < Cracki> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M1t0egTZY44
2019-12-21T22:38:37 < Cracki> romantic ending
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2019-12-21T23:17:14 < Thorn> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6P8c2vvEeW0
2019-12-21T23:18:27 < Cracki> ah, pantilt thingy
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2019-12-21T23:19:55 < Cracki> for optical tracking I can recommend the MOSSE filter. it's a correlation thingy.
2019-12-21T23:20:24 < Cracki> not smart, but very solid on objects that don't change appearance much
--- Day changed Sun Dec 22 2019
2019-12-22T00:13:05 < Thorn> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OwFjUX6SaY8
2019-12-22T00:19:03 < doomba> bitmask: https://postimg.cc/tsGd6zPv
2019-12-22T00:19:18 < doomba> i forgot everything i learned about chartjs
2019-12-22T00:19:37 < doomba> so i'm still fighting trying to get the X axis to work correctly
2019-12-22T00:22:57 < Cracki> Thorn, I remember that :>
2019-12-22T00:33:27 < PaulFertser> Thorn: that's surprisingly entertaining!
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2019-12-22T00:56:23 < PaulFertser> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lockwire doesn't say anything about wires that stiffen from twisting.
2019-12-22T00:58:57 < PaulFertser> "It's almost 2020 and you are using inch pounds as a torque units. I stopped watching after that." lol
2019-12-22T01:02:06 < qyx> this whole thing is screw-wired, wtf
2019-12-22T01:02:16 < qyx> everything he does is twisting wires
2019-12-22T01:02:34 < qyx> where is loctite
2019-12-22T01:03:57 < PaulFertser> Doesn't stand up to heat.
2019-12-22T01:03:59 < Ultrasauce> doesnt do the temperature ranges necessary in aviation
2019-12-22T01:04:36 < Ultrasauce> also not great for repeated assembly
2019-12-22T01:12:35 < mawk> he says it in the description qyx why not loctite
2019-12-22T01:14:00 < mawk> I found the configuration overlay of my BIOS Steffanx , if you could call it like that
2019-12-22T01:14:02 < Cracki> muricans don't even bother to say "cubic yard", they just say "yard"
2019-12-22T01:14:11 < mawk> like the thing they configure last minute to enable or disable options for the final product
2019-12-22T01:14:14 < mawk> I just enabled everything
2019-12-22T01:14:28 < mawk> but there is another type of hidden options, the if (false) {...} ones
2019-12-22T01:14:34 < mawk> for that I need to patch the UEFI code itself
2019-12-22T01:14:46 < PaulFertser> mawk: I might have missed your docsis (?) hacking, what's the result?
2019-12-22T01:15:15 < mawk> I found a flat embedded rtos (eCos) executable PaulFertser
2019-12-22T01:15:19 < mawk> commonly used by cisco apparently
2019-12-22T01:15:41 < mawk> that's the code, then I have a dump of the NVRAM and the "dynamic" NVRAM
2019-12-22T01:15:43 < PaulFertser> But you needed to extract credentials iirc.
2019-12-22T01:15:45 < mawk> presumably the credentials are in them
2019-12-22T01:15:47 < mawk> yes
2019-12-22T01:15:59 < mawk> I found the wifi password, the admin password, so the docsis certificates must be around there
2019-12-22T01:16:13 < mawk> with binwalk I found a bunch of DER certificate signatures
2019-12-22T01:16:16 < PaulFertser> Thanks for the update, and good luck with it.
2019-12-22T01:16:24 < mawk> but I need to research docsis more to know how the whole PKI thing opeates
2019-12-22T01:16:27 < mawk> operates
2019-12-22T01:16:29 < mawk> thanks
2019-12-22T01:19:08 < mawk> I wanted to add the chip to flashrom but another similar chip worked
2019-12-22T01:19:18 < mawk> just wiggling a bit the clip
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2019-12-22T01:25:21 < Steffanx> I wish I had any clue on how to do that mawk. Finding those settings/modifying them
2019-12-22T01:34:15 < Steffanx> You should blog more mawk :)
2019-12-22T01:34:28 < mawk> yes
2019-12-22T01:34:47 < mawk> the hardest part is all the googling
2019-12-22T01:34:51 < mawk> since nobody talks about that topic
2019-12-22T01:35:05 < mawk> and that the tools are confidential
2019-12-22T01:35:07 < mawk> you only find paid vietnamese forums
2019-12-22T01:36:52 < Steffanx> You did diehard code reverse engineering or just used tools you found?
2019-12-22T01:37:14 < mawk> well without the tools I couldn't do it that's for sure
2019-12-22T01:37:22 < mawk> but I reverse engineered the UEFI forms
2019-12-22T01:37:29 < mawk> if you can call that reverse engineer, it's not really code
2019-12-22T01:37:34 < mawk> it's more like HTML ifyou want
2019-12-22T01:37:40 < mawk> some kind of UI description language
2019-12-22T01:39:03 < Steffanx> Ah
2019-12-22T01:39:55 < aandrew> there's a reason lockwire is used on aircraft and not loctite
2019-12-22T01:43:04 < mawk> Steffanx: the rough sketch is 1) find your BIOS image (use flashrom on the SPI chip, unpack update packages, have a nice manufacturer like mine that just gives the raw image to you), find the setup module inside it, analyze the UEFI forms to know which variables to mess with, mess with the variables with a hex editor
2019-12-22T01:44:28 < mawk> for the last part for now people were using a shitty patched GRUB to do the job=
2019-12-22T01:44:34 < mawk> for a reason I cannot understand
2019-12-22T01:44:38 < mawk> me I just used linux with efivarfs
2019-12-22T01:44:48 < mawk> just be careful to remove the immutable attribute on the variable
2019-12-22T01:46:27 < mawk> now you should carefully select the variables to mess with, preferably enable things that will unhide options in the bios instead of enabling the options themselves
2019-12-22T01:46:33 < mawk> for easy revert and all
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2019-12-22T02:04:49 < Steffanx> How useful are the UEFI tools to do the analysing for you? Uefitool, eufi bios editor ... whatever there is more
2019-12-22T02:05:16 < Steffanx> Especially the last one looks ok. Although windows only it seems
2019-12-22T02:06:09 < mawk> yes lots of windows only stuff, but I use wine
2019-12-22T02:06:26 < mawk> some are opensource too but I'm not motivated enough to port to linux, wine works
2019-12-22T02:06:52 < mawk> well I used flashrom, me_cleaner, ifdtool, intelmetool, uefitool, IRFExtractor
2019-12-22T02:07:02 < mawk> the most important one is the last one, to decompile the UEFI form
2019-12-22T02:11:54 < mawk> you can find me your bios dump if you want me to take a look Steffanx
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2019-12-22T02:37:41 < doomba> bitmask: https://postimg.cc/Q9VSmkmL awwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwww shit
2019-12-22T02:37:53 < doomba> so much wasted time making things look pretty
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2019-12-22T02:55:10 < jadew> did you guys know that skeletons in 80's and 90's movies were real?
2019-12-22T02:55:41 < jadew> early 90's at least
2019-12-22T02:56:01 < jadew> so all those skeletons you saw as a kid and your parents told you they're props, they weren't
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2019-12-22T03:08:05 < karlp> sometimes it's cheaper to get the real deal
2019-12-22T03:08:26 < jadew> yeah, I've read that they were much cheaper than realistically looking fake ones
2019-12-22T03:08:30 < jadew> so they used real ones
2019-12-22T03:08:45 < karlp> iirc, there's a mssive pile of ak47/73's in god of war, or some pile of guns anywya, and it was cheaper and easier to buy real ones than to buy even bad fake ones.
2019-12-22T03:09:32 < jadew> yeah, it's actually why some actors have died shot
2019-12-22T03:10:28 < jadew> this is a famous one: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Brandon_Lee#Death
2019-12-22T03:10:54 < jadew> I was a fan of that movie
2019-12-22T03:11:08 < jadew> IIRC they used his brother and special effects to finish the movie
2019-12-22T03:11:21 < qyx> STM32L5 is unobtainium?
2019-12-22T03:12:44 < jadew> ah, it was a stunt double
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2019-12-22T03:19:06 < machinehum> doomba: i3?
2019-12-22T03:19:14 < machinehum> Whats the desktop env
2019-12-22T03:19:34 < doomba> yea i3
2019-12-22T03:21:32 < mawk> i3 is nice
2019-12-22T03:21:34 < mawk> but KDE is nicerest
2019-12-22T03:21:53 < mawk> I like my desktop environment pretty
2019-12-22T03:41:27 < aandrew> xfce > *
2019-12-22T03:42:55 < qyx> xfce > *
2019-12-22T03:43:09 < qyx> although fuk gtk3
2019-12-22T03:56:07 < doomba> yea i used to rock xfce
2019-12-22T03:56:24 < doomba> with 1 panel up top
2019-12-22T03:56:24 < machinehum> Fucking love i3
2019-12-22T03:56:27 < doomba> and 1 big terminal
2019-12-22T03:56:29 < doomba> with tmux
2019-12-22T03:56:42 < doomba> and then someone said i shuold just use i3
2019-12-22T03:57:01 < machinehum> Fixed my carpal tunnel
2019-12-22T03:57:19 < qyx> anyone used vreg's PG output to keep MCU under reset when UVLO?
2019-12-22T03:59:01 < qyx> ok rethinking again, maybe it is dumb
2019-12-22T03:59:13 < qyx> I could just connect the PG output to a GPIO directly
2019-12-22T03:59:48 < qyx> but then what, I could shutdown the mcu
2019-12-22T04:00:21 < qyx> or I could just do nothing and use the internal brown-out logic
2019-12-22T04:01:01 < qyx> but still it would be tight
2019-12-22T04:01:21 < qyx> with MCU & external DRAM running at 1V8
2019-12-22T04:01:48 < qyx> I want to avoid the RAM to misbehave without MCU noticing it
2019-12-22T04:04:34 < qyx> so I would set vreg's EN divider to UVLO at ~2.5V and if the PG goes high, assert NRST
2019-12-22T04:04:56 < qyx> with a pulldown or whatever, pulled up using a P-MOS during normal operation
2019-12-22T04:10:32 < qyx> oh I just found reset supervisors
2019-12-22T04:16:10 < qyx> STM6822
2019-12-22T04:18:35 < mawk> now I'm doing the hardcore reversing Steffanx
2019-12-22T04:24:37 < qyx> til: L4 actually allows VDDA=0V if no analog peripherals are used
2019-12-22T04:30:29 < qyx> blogging further
2019-12-22T04:30:37 < qyx> L4 being a low power design
2019-12-22T04:30:59 < qyx> is optimized for 1V8 and such
2019-12-22T04:31:31 < qyx> despite all this it lacks any features to allow interfacing to a SD cards
2019-12-22T04:32:02 < qyx> no supply input for SDMMC interface, no directiou output for 1V8->3V level translator
2019-12-22T04:36:46 < qyx> L4+ has a direction output
2019-12-22T04:39:29 < aandrew> so I bought my son one of those paper cutting machines
2019-12-22T04:39:56 < aandrew> he's been building papercrafts for a few years and pretty good at it, all just paper and scissors and shitloads of tape (he doesn't like glue)
2019-12-22T04:40:12 < aandrew> this thing is supposed to be able to cut light metal and wood too
2019-12-22T04:40:20 < aandrew> I think he's gonna be excited once he gets a handle on it
2019-12-22T04:47:55 < specing> so you bought yourself a metal and wood cutting machine under the guise of getting your son a paper cutter?
2019-12-22T04:48:00 < specing> smart
2019-12-22T04:48:31 < qyx> heh
2019-12-22T04:49:05 < aandrew> heh
2019-12-22T04:49:19 < aandrew> I actually am looking at a nice $3500 PCB mill
2019-12-22T04:52:19 < Spirit532> aandrew, which one?
2019-12-22T04:59:27 < aandrew> I got the silhouette cameo 4
2019-12-22T05:03:05 < Spirit532> that's not a $3500 PCB mill
2019-12-22T05:03:10 < aandrew> no that isn't
2019-12-22T05:03:13 < aandrew> I didn't get the mill yet
2019-12-22T05:03:16 < Spirit532> don't
2019-12-22T05:03:17 < aandrew> still looking only
2019-12-22T05:03:21 < Spirit532> $3500 for a PCB mill is a fucking ripoff
2019-12-22T05:03:35 < aandrew> that's kind of what I'm thinking as well
2019-12-22T05:03:39 < Spirit532> unless LPKF have gone down in price and will still lick your boots for $3500
2019-12-22T05:03:43 < Spirit532> (they won't)
2019-12-22T05:04:02 < Spirit532> do you just want to make PCBs?
2019-12-22T05:04:07 < Spirit532> I may have a better solution
2019-12-22T05:05:01 < aandrew> the pcb mill is for quick rf shits, not looking at anything fancier but 6/6 is attractive but that's what is making it cost too
2019-12-22T05:05:25 < Spirit532> so... there may be a way to do this
2019-12-22T05:05:25 < Spirit532> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yPwvZ3vhnv8
2019-12-22T05:05:30 < Spirit532> for a LOT less
2019-12-22T05:05:57 < Spirit532> downside: I don't know if it can drill PCBs(yet), but you can buy a stupid cheap chinese toy engraver to do that
2019-12-22T05:06:14 < aandrew> https://www.bantamtools.com/machines/basic-desktop-pcb-milling-machine is what I was lookign at
2019-12-22T05:06:21 < Spirit532> oh yeah bantam
2019-12-22T05:06:22 < Spirit532> junk
2019-12-22T05:06:33 < Spirit532> blacklist their site and ignore them wherever possible
2019-12-22T05:07:16 < aandrew> damn
2019-12-22T05:07:24 < aandrew> that lpkf looks rad
2019-12-22T05:07:33 < Spirit532> their machines were designed by a chimp "maker" who has no clue what mechanical engineering is
2019-12-22T05:07:38 < Spirit532> (bantam, not lpkf)
2019-12-22T05:08:06 < aandrew> what's the MSRP on a basic LPKF? they're one of those idiotic "email for pricing" companies
2019-12-22T05:08:23 < Spirit532> a house and three kidneys
2019-12-22T05:08:28 < aandrew> ah
2019-12-22T05:08:30 < aandrew> that'd do it
2019-12-22T05:08:37 < Spirit532> however you should be able to do that yourself
2019-12-22T05:09:08 < aandrew> not sure I completely trust myself with a laser that powerful
2019-12-22T05:09:15 < Spirit532> goggles
2019-12-22T05:09:23 < Spirit532> they're a requirement if you want to keep your eyes
2019-12-22T05:09:35 < aandrew> eyah
2019-12-22T05:09:38 < aandrew> that's a minimum
2019-12-22T05:09:49 < aandrew> I'd have to have an interlocked room, got small kids
2019-12-22T05:09:57 < Spirit532> interlocked box
2019-12-22T05:10:38 < aandrew> hm, that's a 6W laser
2019-12-22T05:10:40 < aandrew> no, room
2019-12-22T05:10:46 < aandrew> don't trust shit
2019-12-22T05:10:51 < Spirit532> lol no the lpkf is not 6W
2019-12-22T05:10:59 < Spirit532> it's closer to 30, and ultraviolet
2019-12-22T05:11:09 < aandrew> "Hello, Chugawar, this laser uses 6W. If you'd like additional information about this laser feel free to email them at sales@lpkfusa.com."
2019-12-22T05:11:18 < aandrew> yes UV, but they claim 6W
2019-12-22T05:11:26 < Spirit532> something seems fucky about that
2019-12-22T05:11:50 < aandrew> it's pulsed, maybe that is average power
2019-12-22T05:11:55 < Spirit532> it's definitely pulsed
2019-12-22T05:12:13 < aandrew> it's like those "300W" PMPO computer speakers
2019-12-22T05:12:33 < Spirit532> it's a little more complicated than that
2019-12-22T05:12:37 < aandrew> sure
2019-12-22T05:12:48 < aandrew> just saying maybe it is a 6W laser for average electricla power
2019-12-22T05:12:50 < Spirit532> (I'm going to build a pulsed laser soon)
2019-12-22T05:12:55 < Spirit532> it's definitely not 6W avg electrical
2019-12-22T05:13:03 < Spirit532> I'd bet it's closer to 600W
2019-12-22T05:13:05 < aandrew> but if it's 10% duty cycle maybe the opticla powr is a lot higher
2019-12-22T05:13:10 < Spirit532> it's not just duty
2019-12-22T05:13:15 < aandrew> movie time
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2019-12-22T05:13:18 < aandrew> thanks for hte link
2019-12-22T05:13:30 < Spirit532> lasers capable of ablating metal have pulse powers in the tens to thousands of kilowatts
2019-12-22T05:14:43 < qyx> are you going to diy a cybertruck
2019-12-22T05:40:20 < Cracki> a good way to get a feeling for pulsed laser is to work on acrylic glass with a cutter
2019-12-22T05:43:02 < Cracki> if it melts rather than turns into smoke, you're moving too slowly
2019-12-22T05:44:30 < Cracki> I learned that I'd rather run the same cut several times over the same board but fast. single through but slowly melts stuff way too much
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2019-12-22T07:09:12 < jadew> good championship fight: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K50CfyCAlzM
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2019-12-22T08:42:55 < dongs> i heard that boieng thing that went up the other day failed to do stuff
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2019-12-22T12:08:50 < Lux> aandrew: i've used a lkpf mill at the uni, that stuff is totally overpriced and the software is intentionally shitty so they can sell courses on how to use it
2019-12-22T12:09:04 < Lux> iirc the mill was like >15k
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2019-12-22T12:48:45 < tcth> tell me a sad sunday story
2019-12-22T12:50:32 < h4x0riz3d> Santa isn't real
2019-12-22T12:56:50 < qyx> sad story is I cannot run L4+dram+flash at 1V8 with SDMMC at 3V3
2019-12-22T13:03:47 < Thorn> T - 40 min https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p3PTDpwuuao
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2019-12-22T13:25:03 < qyx> thats going to be another sad story
2019-12-22T13:28:42 < tcth> good
2019-12-22T13:28:51 < tcth> very good
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2019-12-22T13:52:30 < PaulFertser> Why are they all talking about "brilliant" takeoffs? As if some takeoffs are "ok" but not "brilliant"?
2019-12-22T13:52:53 < PaulFertser> "beatiful launch"
2019-12-22T13:53:36 < PaulFertser> beautiful even
2019-12-22T13:53:46 < h4x0riz3d> maybe they aren't alowed to say "noice" or "eggcelent"
2019-12-22T13:56:59 < PaulFertser> I mean aren't all successful launches about the same?
2019-12-22T13:58:26 < PaulFertser> Also, I can understand when they use imperial for civil aviation (as this is a long-standing tradition all around the world except for the China), I can understand when they use imperial for servicing jet engines and what's not where manufacturer uses that in the official manuals. But imperial on NASA TV is kinda outrageous!
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2019-12-22T14:28:07 < Steffanx> Mah to be honest I have no use for extra features mawk . I hardly use it's current features.
2019-12-22T14:28:29 < PaulFertser> It would be cool if one could get live telemetry data streamed via an API published in advance so that one could host a "ground control centre" events for schools and unis with different teams competing on writing best UIs to process and display the data live.
2019-12-22T14:28:36 < Steffanx> More then just the default settings
2019-12-22T14:30:28 < PaulFertser> Or am I just daydreaming or talking BS?
2019-12-22T14:45:57 < PaulFertser> Why are they not showing all those temperatures they talked so much about live :(
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2019-12-22T14:47:08 < PaulFertser> The IL Moon mission was so much nicer in that regard!
2019-12-22T14:50:13 < qyx> has it crashed yet
2019-12-22T14:50:47 < PaulFertser> Nope
2019-12-22T15:01:22 < qyx> is it burning
2019-12-22T15:03:45 < PaulFertser> It's kinda sad the damn hydrazine is chosen for the bleeding edge crew missions programme.
2019-12-22T15:04:40 < PaulFertser> Is dragon using that too?
2019-12-22T15:28:44 < PaulFertser> Fuckety fuck. "smooth" "smooth" "smooth" "great" "smooth". Why do not you fucking tell us what exactly are those people doing, what did they throw on land and why did they cover it, why do not you give us the stream from their radios?!
2019-12-22T15:30:38 < BrainDamage> would you prefer mono metyl hydrazine?
2019-12-22T15:31:59 < PaulFertser> Thorn: are all nasa tv broadcasts that shallow and annoyingly knowledge-depriving?
2019-12-22T15:37:31 < PaulFertser> BrainDamage: protons are using dimethylhydrazine
2019-12-22T15:51:46 < BrainDamage> sooner or later they'll use foof or clf3
2019-12-22T15:54:14 < PaulFertser> OK, I see Draco and SuperDraco are using monomethylhydrazine :/
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2019-12-22T16:21:22 < mawk> the pleasure is not in the end goal Steffanx it's in the journey
2019-12-22T16:21:28 < mawk> I won't use the new features either
2019-12-22T16:21:33 < mawk> apart from ME and keyboard illumination
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2019-12-22T16:50:12 < dongs> did starliner fuck teh landing toO?
2019-12-22T16:51:19 < PaulFertser> dongs: nope, they say it's all smooth brilliant very nice super-sonic etc
2019-12-22T17:10:59 < mawk> a great landing, an amazing landing
2019-12-22T17:11:01 < mawk> trump speech
2019-12-22T17:23:49 < specing> musk should have offered orbital rescue services to ULA :D
2019-12-22T17:24:11 < specing> it'd be cheaper than sending it up again on a deltaV
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2019-12-22T18:28:24 < Thorn> what is the difference between iot and wireless sensor networks?
2019-12-22T18:28:53 < Thorn> seems like the latter term has been quite popular from around 2004 or so and until several years ago
2019-12-22T18:30:14 < doomba> there is no technological difference
2019-12-22T18:30:20 < doomba> there is a hype difference
2019-12-22T18:30:33 < doomba> iot networks have .io domains, venture capital, hackernews posts, etc.
2019-12-22T18:30:40 < doomba> wireless sensor networks do not
2019-12-22T18:30:53 < Thorn> did the MBAs switch to a new edition of bullshit bingo around that time?
2019-12-22T18:37:03 < doomba> Rapidly converging blockchain-powered Internet of Things massively scalable tensor-flow-sensor-grids disrupting the people and assets analytics and metrics space.
2019-12-22T18:37:41 < doomba> ^ translation: MAKE:Rs bought some arduino shields.
2019-12-22T18:38:04 < PaulFertser> Thorn: can you please tell me if most of nasa tv broadcasts are like that?
2019-12-22T18:39:07 < Thorn> what do you mean? this was one of the better ones
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2019-12-22T18:45:15 < PaulFertser> Thorn: I felt anger and disappointment due to them: 1. Saying many times "brilliant", "better than expected" and other bullshit words without any details whatsoever; 2. Lack of visible telemetry data, only the trajectory shown sometimes, plus their occassional reports; and no specific temperature measurements given despite talking a lot about the shield; 3. Non-sensical "covering" of what went
2019-12-22T18:45:21 < PaulFertser> wrong during the mission; 4. Saying nothing that sounded insightful, no interesting tiny engineering details that really make a difference; 5. Using imperial units (mostly); 6. Mentioning the dummy by "name" ten too many times, again, without any details of what "she" measured whatsoever.
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2019-12-22T19:03:11 < doomba> picked up some better wire to run to the SSRs as well as give the oven proper grounding
2019-12-22T19:06:38 < Steffanx> qyx will use it now, doomba ;)
2019-12-22T19:21:09 < doomba> yes moar safer
2019-12-22T19:39:47 < doomba> sheeeit i bought the wrong plug
2019-12-22T19:39:53 < doomba> this one is for 250V
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2019-12-22T19:47:04 < bitmask> damnit people, order food!
2019-12-22T19:48:25 < h4x0riz3d> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PxLAv0vb9Jc
2019-12-22T19:48:29 < bitmask> oh there we go, cya
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2019-12-22T20:46:08 < aandrew> hm, why do I want a $15k laser ablation device rather than a $3k PCB mill?
2019-12-22T20:46:53 < Steffanx> Yes, why?
2019-12-22T20:56:32 < catphish> aandrew: why indeed
2019-12-22T20:57:13 < aandrew> Spirit532 was saying the bantam one was crap. I have no experience with it but he'd indicated the laser one
2019-12-22T20:57:36 < Spirit532> $15k is a bit of a ripoff
2019-12-22T20:57:40 < Spirit532> you can get one for ~$2k
2019-12-22T20:57:53 < Spirit532> and spend the remaining $1k on a nice cheap 3040 engraver lol
2019-12-22T20:59:10 < Steffanx> 3040 is a bit large for just pcbs..
2019-12-22T21:00:15 < Spirit532> so your suggestion is to buy a shit engraver that's no good for anything BUT PCBs?
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2019-12-22T21:02:27 < aandrew> I'm only really interested in quick and dirty protos and rapid development, mainly single sided and for RF
2019-12-22T21:02:37 < englishman> $2k gets you a lot of chinese PCBs
2019-12-22T21:02:53 < catphish> i'm a pretty big fan of chinese PCBs
2019-12-22T21:03:01 < bitmask> me too
2019-12-22T21:03:08 < englishman> and you don't even have to waste a bunch of time reinventing the wheel
2019-12-22T21:03:12 < englishman> you just click add to cart
2019-12-22T21:03:14 < catphish> they're even doing basically free assembly now too
2019-12-22T21:03:32 < englishman> then the little chinamen do the work for you
2019-12-22T21:03:35 < aandrew> chinese pcbs are great after you've made a couple quick runs, waiting a week is too long when you're innovating
2019-12-22T21:03:53 < Spirit532> will the boards be single layer?
2019-12-22T21:05:15 < bitmask> hmm 63 vehicles crashed in one spot today
2019-12-22T21:05:19 < bitmask> in virginia
2019-12-22T21:05:21 < bitmask> US
2019-12-22T21:05:29 < Spirit532> as opposed to the other virginia
2019-12-22T21:05:39 < bitmask> https://s.w-x.co/util/image/w/i64-pileup.jpg?v=at&w=1280&h=720
2019-12-22T21:05:49 < bitmask> well for those that dont know US states
2019-12-22T21:05:58 < catphish> how the fuck does that happen
2019-12-22T21:06:05 < bitmask> ice on the bridge and fog apparently
2019-12-22T21:06:11 < Spirit532> 63 cars on i64
2019-12-22T21:06:15 < Spirit532> needs one more car
2019-12-22T21:06:24 < Steffanx> Doesnt this happen in soviet russia all the time?
2019-12-22T21:06:39 < catphish> ice is pretty dangerous :(
2019-12-22T21:06:47 < aandrew> always single layer fr playing around. when you get to where you think you're gonna settle in, make a real PCB
2019-12-22T21:06:50 < catphish> i don't think ice is allowed on motorways here
2019-12-22T21:07:05 < Steffanx> lol.
2019-12-22T21:07:09 < Spirit532> aandrew, but single layer + RF != dual layer + RF
2019-12-22T21:07:27 < Spirit532> if you're certain you need a single layer, I'd probably go with a laser engraver
2019-12-22T21:07:40 < Spirit532> you can make the investment back by engraving trinkets for people
2019-12-22T21:07:55 < Steffanx> iphones you mean.
2019-12-22T21:07:59 < catphish> laser engraver seems like it would be ideal for single layer actually
2019-12-22T21:07:59 < Spirit532> look for a "20W fiber marker"
2019-12-22T21:08:04 < Spirit532> yes
2019-12-22T21:08:13 < aandrew> Spirit532: that's not true; you've usually got a fat ground plane underneath
2019-12-22T21:08:21 < Spirit532> buy the cheapest 20W fiber marker you can find
2019-12-22T21:08:23 < Spirit532> as long as it's 20W
2019-12-22T21:08:34 < catphish> i guess the size matters
2019-12-22T21:08:42 < Spirit532> also, get GOOD GOGGLES
2019-12-22T21:08:45 < catphish> need something that can engrave over a decent area
2019-12-22T21:08:48 < Spirit532> catphish, size is always the same
2019-12-22T21:08:52 < Spirit532> you just swap the lens
2019-12-22T21:08:57 < catphish> interesting
2019-12-22T21:08:58 < Spirit532> larger marking area = less accuracy
2019-12-22T21:09:09 < Spirit532> I recommend a 150x150 or 200x200 lens max
2019-12-22T21:09:10 < catphish> why would anyone use a mill if a laser engraver exists? seems like a far superior option
2019-12-22T21:09:28 < catphish> 150x150 is big enough for most of what i do
2019-12-22T21:09:36 < Spirit532> because they're around $2000-2500
2019-12-22T21:09:40 < catphish> oh ok
2019-12-22T21:09:52 < Spirit532> they also have no reputation besides engraving trinkets
2019-12-22T21:09:55 < Spirit532> I'm looking to change that soon
2019-12-22T21:10:12 < catphish> i suppose reliability of the cuts is important
2019-12-22T21:10:22 < Spirit532> https://www.aliexpress.com/item/4000372995270.html
2019-12-22T21:10:24 < Spirit532> something like this
2019-12-22T21:10:50 < catphish> that looks nice, good connectivity too
2019-12-22T21:11:11 < Spirit532> https://www.lasersafetyindustries.com/100_10_130_Laser_Safety_Glasses_p/100-10-130.htm
2019-12-22T21:11:19 < Spirit532> something like this is an absolute requirement
2019-12-22T21:11:26 < Spirit532> if you want to keep your eyes after the first run
2019-12-22T21:11:30 < catphish> but can it cut through 1oz copper reliably? :)
2019-12-22T21:11:37 < Spirit532> yes
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2019-12-22T21:11:42 < Spirit532> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i88FwTLSJlE
2019-12-22T21:12:02 < Spirit532> that channel has an interesting series of videos pushing these markers to the limit
2019-12-22T21:12:21 < Spirit532> note, these laser markers are NOT made for engraving anything 3D or copper ablation
2019-12-22T21:12:25 < Spirit532> but... you can ;)
2019-12-22T21:15:11 < catphish> i feel like i need goggles to watch that video
2019-12-22T21:15:54 < aandrew> Spirit532: why a fiber marking laser?
2019-12-22T21:16:16 < Spirit532> no hassle when you get it set up
2019-12-22T21:16:23 < Spirit532> file->pcb->engrave, that kind of thing
2019-12-22T21:16:32 < Spirit532> with milling you do need to fiddle around a lot
2019-12-22T21:16:59 < Spirit532> plus you can make the money back by engraving art on iphones or something, people love that crap
2019-12-22T21:17:24 < aandrew> ah it's a kind of "defined system" that you can adapt
2019-12-22T21:17:30 < Spirit532> yes
2019-12-22T21:17:56 < Spirit532> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U17QcIorKiE
2019-12-22T21:18:04 < englishman> oh cool, galvo fibre laser for 2k
2019-12-22T21:18:10 < englishman> hell yeah
2019-12-22T21:18:14 < Spirit532> it's a pretty neat deal
2019-12-22T21:18:23 < Spirit532> though 20W is not a ton of power
2019-12-22T21:18:34 < Spirit532> you really want 50-70 for proper depth
2019-12-22T21:18:40 < Spirit532> but 50-70 costs... a lot
2019-12-22T21:18:54 < catphish> that looks like a really good result in that video, i don't know how thick 1oz pcb copper is
2019-12-22T21:18:56 < englishman> I bought a 50w mopa for work
2019-12-22T21:19:05 < Spirit532> https://www.aliexpress.com/item/4000404292045.html
2019-12-22T21:19:07 < Spirit532> here's a cheaper one
2019-12-22T21:19:11 < Spirit532> englishman, MOPA costs even more
2019-12-22T21:19:14 < englishman> yes
2019-12-22T21:19:21 < Spirit532> because it's a fiber amplifier fed by a picosecond laser
2019-12-22T21:19:23 < englishman> but worth it if you're doing more than pcb imo
2019-12-22T21:19:23 < Spirit532> :<
2019-12-22T21:19:37 < englishman> it was like 50k but it's actually pro shit
2019-12-22T21:19:51 < Spirit532> 50k is a ripoff too
2019-12-22T21:19:56 < englishman> im sure there's comparable chink stuff
2019-12-22T21:20:01 < englishman> yeah no
2019-12-22T21:20:09 < Spirit532> what source does it have?
2019-12-22T21:20:12 < englishman> that is already half the price of trotec
2019-12-22T21:20:19 < englishman> ipg
2019-12-22T21:20:31 < Spirit532> yeah I suppose IPG is alright
2019-12-22T21:20:51 < englishman> class 1 enclosure, moving xy table, computer, filters
2019-12-22T21:20:54 < englishman> and training
2019-12-22T21:21:04 < englishman> it's for actual production so
2019-12-22T21:21:07 < englishman> no chinq shit
2019-12-22T21:21:07 < Spirit532> I've invested some money into getting a 70W q-switched Nd:YAG laser head
2019-12-22T21:21:17 < Spirit532> still waiting for it to get shipped
2019-12-22T21:21:34 < Spirit532> will be a hell of a deal if I actually get it
2019-12-22T21:22:08 < englishman> this one will be for production laser marking of clear ano alu
2019-12-22T21:22:13 < aandrew> 1oz copper is 34um thick
2019-12-22T21:22:23 < Spirit532> it's just a matter of time aandrew
2019-12-22T21:22:31 < Spirit532> the longer you engrave, the deeper you'll go
2019-12-22T21:22:33 < doomba> ok got the right plug this time
2019-12-22T21:22:45 < doomba> TIME FOR SOME CODING. VISUAL BASIC... NOW.
2019-12-22T21:23:25 < doomba> bitmask: lol so wifimanager doesn't work with espasyncwebserver and reactesp
2019-12-22T21:23:51 < doomba> so i'm writing one that will be part of the overall oven UI
2019-12-22T21:23:51 < englishman> The trotec/tykma-electrox units were all 100k+
2019-12-22T21:23:55 < englishman> and had shit soft
2019-12-22T21:23:58 < Spirit532> which is stupid
2019-12-22T21:24:00 < englishman> with the same ipg laser
2019-12-22T21:24:04 < bitmask> ok
2019-12-22T21:24:04 < Spirit532> but someone pays
2019-12-22T21:24:30 < doomba> and i think DHL delivers my stencil today
2019-12-22T21:24:40 < doomba> so i gotta finish this shiz asap
2019-12-22T21:25:19 < doomba> oven all tore apart again re-wiring with better wire and increasing safety measures
2019-12-22T21:25:34 < Steffanx> dhl delivers on sunday?
2019-12-22T21:25:36 < englishman> DHL delivery on a Sunday?
2019-12-22T21:25:39 < Steffanx> lol
2019-12-22T21:25:40 < doomba> apparently they do
2019-12-22T21:25:44 < doomba> even the local USPS was delivering today
2019-12-22T21:25:56 < Steffanx> usps delivers on a sunday?
2019-12-22T21:26:06 < doomba> normally no. but they were delivering today. i got mail
2019-12-22T21:26:10 < Steffanx> where are your christian standards?
2019-12-22T21:26:20 < doomba> it's because tomorrow is xmas eve isn't it?
2019-12-22T21:26:32 < doomba> so they're clocking in double time to get all those amazon packages delivered to the NPCs
2019-12-22T21:27:10 < doomba> lord bezos says no child should go without their presents on xmas day.
2019-12-22T21:27:26 < doomba> or they will lose faith in the capitalist system, and become marxists.
2019-12-22T21:27:33 < Steffanx> is it?
2019-12-22T21:27:52 < Steffanx> is xmas on wednesday this year?
2019-12-22T21:28:38 < doomba> yep
2019-12-22T21:28:45 < doomba> so tuesday is xmas eve
2019-12-22T21:29:05 < doomba> but a lot of places are giving people time off on monday too
2019-12-22T21:29:17 < Steffanx> Yes, me too
2019-12-22T21:29:52 < doomba> makes no sense to work monday because it destroys peoples' travel plans of leaving on friday/saturday and being out of town until after xmas
2019-12-22T21:30:10 < thardin> family time cuts into profits
2019-12-22T21:30:18 < thardin> get back in the cage wagie
2019-12-22T21:30:30 < doomba> thardin: I'm going to need to see your Elysium Pass Card.
2019-12-22T21:30:30 < englishman> I'm off for two weeks
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2019-12-22T21:30:51 < doomba> no elysium pass? no time off for you.
2019-12-22T21:31:05 < doomba> however, proof of NEETbux will suffice too
2019-12-22T21:31:08 < englishman> gonna play stardew valley in the tesla
2019-12-22T21:31:11 < thardin> is a multipass enough?
2019-12-22T21:31:22 < doomba> NEETbux multipass accepted, yes.
2019-12-22T21:31:28 < doomba> thardin you are approved for time off.
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2019-12-22T21:31:39 < thardin> \o/
2019-12-22T21:34:29 < thardin> I should pay myself some overdue wages
2019-12-22T21:44:57 < thardin> going to invest in some nice tools next year, like a decent scope to replace my ds1052e
2019-12-22T21:47:20 < specing> like a ds1054z?
2019-12-22T21:50:12 < thardin> that's the one with four inputs, right?
2019-12-22T21:50:28 < thardin> I might do some rf stuff so I want something that's closer to 1 GHz bandwidth
2019-12-22T21:54:19 < specing> yes
2019-12-22T21:54:28 < specing> ugh, thats gonna be expensive
2019-12-22T21:54:40 < specing> for rf its probably better to get limeSDR or hackRF
2019-12-22T21:56:11 < thardin> I have a hackrf
2019-12-22T21:58:24 < thardin> hmmm yes these are someone outside my current price range
2019-12-22T21:59:10 < thardin> curiously a 1 GHz scope is not much more expensive than a 500 MHz one
2019-12-22T22:01:58 < thardin> 100 MHz mixed signal scope seems more in my range, around 10k SEK (1k dollaridoos)
2019-12-22T22:02:13 < specing> mixed signal? with logic analyser?
2019-12-22T22:02:59 < thardin> yeah
2019-12-22T22:03:06 < specing> rigol has them for 600 eur
2019-12-22T22:03:28 < specing> but I don't think a logic analyser is worth paying for
2019-12-22T22:03:48 < specing> because you have $2 FX2LP from aliexpress combined with FOSS on GNU+LInux pc
2019-12-22T22:03:56 < specing> 16 channel 16 mhz or so
2019-12-22T22:05:06 < Cracki> one advantage of mixed signal is that you get analog and digital synchronized in the same view
2019-12-22T22:05:18 < thardin> yes
2019-12-22T22:05:33 < Cracki> I do find it cramped to read any kind of digital signals on a normal scope
2019-12-22T22:05:37 < thardin> some of my ideas cross the analog and digital domains
2019-12-22T22:08:04 < specing> I wonder how you process the digital signals sampled with a MSO scope since there is a bunch of proprietary software interaction there
2019-12-22T22:08:10 < thardin> considering I can buy these with monopoly money (untaxed, VAT free) I don't have as much need to cheap out
2019-12-22T22:08:24 < Cracki> csv dumpt to usb drive
2019-12-22T22:08:32 < specing> Cracki: yeah, sounds like a pain
2019-12-22T22:08:33 < Cracki> or over whatever ethernet or other bus these things take
2019-12-22T22:08:41 < Cracki> csv is less pain than screenshot :>
2019-12-22T22:08:45 < thardin> specing: there is a standard protocol for that
2019-12-22T22:08:46 < specing> they have gigabit ethernet
2019-12-22T22:08:58 < Cracki> gpib or something
2019-12-22T22:09:06 < Cracki> gbip?
2019-12-22T22:09:23 < specing> Honestly what I'd really want is a MSO scope in the form of a PCI-e x16 card
2019-12-22T22:09:35 < specing> just flick it into a computer and have it dump data to 16+ GB ram
2019-12-22T22:09:38 < Cracki> that might be what they're inside
2019-12-22T22:09:45 < specing> sort of
2019-12-22T22:09:51 < Cracki> small mainboard, all the fancy stuff as pcie cards
2019-12-22T22:09:53 < thardin> specing: you don't get the nice knobs tho
2019-12-22T22:09:58 < specing> analog filter - ADC - FPGA - SRAM
2019-12-22T22:10:09 < specing> ^ - ARM processor - DRAM - screen
2019-12-22T22:10:22 < srk> https://www.bunniestudios.com/blog/?p=3957
2019-12-22T22:10:26 < srk> ^^
2019-12-22T22:10:50 < Cracki> nice
2019-12-22T22:11:27 < specing> FPGA in novena is not really distinctive.. .:)
2019-12-22T22:11:43 < specing> Virtually all thinkpads have a gate array in them (maybe not called an FPGA, but it is there)
2019-12-22T22:11:44 < srk> never did anything with it
2019-12-22T22:12:33 < srk> xilinx toolchain won't run on arm so there's that
2019-12-22T22:12:53 < srk> maybe now it's possible with opensource toolchain
2019-12-22T22:13:44 < srk> wanted to at least get myriadrf working but even that proved to be a challenge
2019-12-22T22:13:44 < specing> does the OSS toolchain even support xilinx?
2019-12-22T22:13:54 < specing> I thought it was limited to ICE40X
2019-12-22T22:13:54 < thardin> it's being worked on
2019-12-22T22:14:01 < srk> as of recently I think yes
2019-12-22T22:14:25 < specing> I can only imagine the innovation if all software was FOSS
2019-12-22T22:15:16 < thardin> there was a talk at last year's CCC by some people using yosys to design ASICs
2019-12-22T22:15:38 < thardin> and then vising a chip fab in china to produce a prototype batch
2019-12-22T22:16:05 < srk> cool
2019-12-22T22:16:27 < thardin> "Yosys is retargetable and adding support for additional targets is not very hard. At the moment, Yosys ships with support for ASIC synthesis (from liberty cell library files), iCE40 FPGAs, Xilinx 7-Series FPGAs, Silego GreenPAK4 devices, and Gowinsemi GW1N/GW2A FPGAs."
2019-12-22T22:16:50 < thardin> or maybe they used arachne-pnr for it, I'm unsure
2019-12-22T22:17:22 < Cracki> arachne sounds familiar but iirc there was work on other pnr
2019-12-22T22:17:29 < srk> next-pnr
2019-12-22T22:17:31 < thardin> https://i.imgur.com/JH7UR9R.jpg hah
2019-12-22T22:17:45 < Cracki> who!?
2019-12-22T22:17:47 < srk> https://github.com/YosysHQ/nextpnr
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2019-12-22T23:12:05 < karlp> anyone tried this ata all? https://eu.mouser.com/inventory-management
2019-12-22T23:12:53 < karlp> thardin: arachne is a pnr just for ice40, the synthesis is a different layer from the pnr.
2019-12-22T23:13:43 < Steffanx> Can i install it locally karlp?
2019-12-22T23:17:43 -!- fsasm [~fsasm@193-154-173-29.adsl.highway.telekom.at] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds]
2019-12-22T23:20:06 < karlp> aandrew: we had a (very old) lkpf mill at work we'd borronw from someone. was fine, our old one could only do down to like 0.5mm pitch was about the limit, but this was an _old_ one.
2019-12-22T23:20:25 < karlp> wsa really nice being able to "just go and proto it" but I sometimes felt that made us... do that, instead of actually review it.
2019-12-22T23:20:48 < karlp> what it was good for was making variants for testing fit, but... not sure it woudl have been worth it for that alone.
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2019-12-22T23:24:10 < karlp> (our lkpf was quite happy doing double sided pcbs too, that was nice, but you don't get plated vias.... you gotta do that yourself, with bits of wire if you need it.
2019-12-22T23:29:15 -!- rajkosto [~Rajko@cable-178-149-123-201.dynamic.sbb.rs] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer]
2019-12-22T23:29:22 < Steffanx> So did you try the mouser stuff or are you wating for an answer here before you try, karlp?
2019-12-22T23:30:16 < zyp> karlp, is that a bad thing though?
2019-12-22T23:30:26 < karlp> zyp: jsut mentioning it.
2019-12-22T23:30:35 < zyp> re: review
2019-12-22T23:30:49 < karlp> Steffanx: no, if someone was like, "it's awesome" or "it's shit" would have bene great, but ...
2019-12-22T23:31:04 < zyp> IMO review tends to get boring quickly, and it's all about proving a negative
2019-12-22T23:31:18 < karlp> well, at the time, we were doing .... not really enough review at all.
2019-12-22T23:31:30 < Steffanx> sounds familiar.
2019-12-22T23:31:35 < karlp> there was a lot of shit milled out that was wrong before the milling was even finished.
2019-12-22T23:31:41 < zyp> which in practice you either end up spending a time looking for problems that don't exist, or overlook the ones that do
2019-12-22T23:31:43 < karlp> just because it was so easy to "just mill one out"
2019-12-22T23:31:43 < Steffanx> on a software side that is. hw is checked pretty well i think.
2019-12-22T23:32:33 < karlp> not talking about any sort of heavy review process, just, "is this _actually_ done?" or even "is this done enough that milling it will give me an answer to an unkown?"
2019-12-22T23:33:29 < karlp> I think the wrost of it was actually that I personally just suck at soldering and putting together boards wtih no solder mask was tedious.
2019-12-22T23:34:05 < karlp> still, we isntalled a few hundred units into customer sites that had all been milled on that lkpf we had.
2019-12-22T23:37:42 < aandrew> heh
2019-12-22T23:37:43 < aandrew> https://www.aliexpress.com/item/4000419840811.html
2019-12-22T23:37:46 < aandrew> 30W is a bargain
2019-12-22T23:37:49 -!- jsoft [~jsoft@unaffiliated/jsoft] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds]
2019-12-22T23:39:22 < aandrew> I should try to buy one just to see if they'd ship at that price
2019-12-22T23:39:44 < Cracki> mailman will jam it in your mailbox
2019-12-22T23:39:52 < Cracki> it'll come as bubblewrap envelope
2019-12-22T23:39:56 < zyp> aandrew, haha, nice
2019-12-22T23:40:53 < aandrew> Cracki: lol
2019-12-22T23:41:23 < zyp> aandrew, put in an order
2019-12-22T23:41:37 < Steffanx> Hah
2019-12-22T23:41:54 < zyp> idk what for, but it's not like they're gonna send it anyway
2019-12-22T23:42:42 < Cracki> you could open up an iphone repair hole in the wall
2019-12-22T23:54:44 < zyp> I mean, if I actually got it, I could always find something to use it for
2019-12-22T23:55:26 < aandrew> ok, ordered
2019-12-22T23:55:31 < aandrew> I bet it won't ship
2019-12-22T23:55:47 < aandrew> ask me on Feb 1
2019-12-22T23:55:54 < aandrew> but I bet if it arrives I'll be announcing it ot the world
--- Day changed Mon Dec 23 2019
2019-12-23T00:04:23 < bitmask> https://www.aliexpress.com/item/32621283909.html
2019-12-23T00:04:25 < bitmask> nsfw
2019-12-23T00:05:52 < Steffanx> Ty bitmask
2019-12-23T00:06:03 < bitmask> yw
2019-12-23T00:06:41 -!- fenugrec_ [~fenugrec@24.105.71.66] has joined ##stm32
2019-12-23T00:07:23 < Steffanx> Does englishbot have this yet? https://a.aliexpress.com/OWV9iNZrl
2019-12-23T00:07:44 < Steffanx> Englishman I mean.
2019-12-23T00:10:10 -!- con3 [~kvirc@41.182.27.6] has joined ##stm32
2019-12-23T00:15:57 < zyp> aandrew, so what's it useful for? what should I use mine for if I get one?
2019-12-23T00:29:05 -!- con3 [~kvirc@41.182.27.6] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds]
2019-12-23T00:35:56 < doomba> phew
2019-12-23T00:36:28 < Steffanx> dodged the bullet?
2019-12-23T00:36:49 < doomba> safez0rized the oven
2019-12-23T00:37:12 < karlp> Steffanx: nice :)
2019-12-23T00:37:19 < doomba> https://postimg.cc/w1jf7kd8
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2019-12-23T01:28:59 < kakinull> yes
2019-12-23T01:31:00 < kakinull> I wonder if they remember me anymore after long pause
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2019-12-23T01:45:27 < kakinull> is jacket on fire yet bitmask?
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2019-12-23T01:54:03 < zyp> qyx, now I'm wondering whether it's worthwhile to implement usb power switching on the backplane hub
2019-12-23T01:54:22 < bitmask> not yet
2019-12-23T01:54:35 < bitmask> christmas is keeping me busy
2019-12-23T01:54:50 < zyp> on one hand, it might be useful to be able to powercycle devices
2019-12-23T01:55:28 < zyp> on the other hand, that'd leave power control completely up to the hub and the host
2019-12-23T01:55:51 < zyp> the hub will turn off power to all ports when the upstream port resets
2019-12-23T01:58:20 < zyp> and depending on the card, it might be useful to let it keep running/keep state even when host is rebooting
2019-12-23T01:59:47 < zyp> I could supply both a nonswitched 5V rail along with a switched one, but then each card would have to decide which is suitable
2019-12-23T02:00:25 < zyp> or I could throw a mcu on the backplane to control power, and then the scope is changing
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2019-12-23T02:36:19 < qyx> catphish: ice probably thinks it can be anywhere
2019-12-23T02:36:41 < qyx> damned ice
2019-12-23T02:36:53 < catphish> qyx: not once we leave the EU, we're taking back control
2019-12-23T02:38:18 < qyx> zyp: do you fear a card may become unresponsive?
2019-12-23T02:39:20 < qyx> it would kill all redundancy
2019-12-23T02:56:58 < kakinull> you guise having architectural doubts?
2019-12-23T02:57:22 < qyx> yeah
2019-12-23T02:58:21 < qyx> thinking about devices I've made for similar purpose.. there are some caching measurement data, their cache would be emptied
2019-12-23T02:59:05 < kakinull> my architecture doesn't have caches
2019-12-23T02:59:23 < kakinull> it's very dumdum
2019-12-23T02:59:24 < qyx> also I considered the possiblity to have a debug slave which would allow reprogramming the main bnoard
2019-12-23T03:00:08 < qyx> zyp: how would you implement power sourcing in this case?
2019-12-23T03:14:22 < qyx> I have aechitectural doubts about those SDMMC interfaces on STM32s
2019-12-23T03:23:11 < Steffanx> Uh what qyx?
2019-12-23T03:25:05 < Steffanx> Why
2019-12-23T03:26:58 < qyx> because except on f7/h7/l4+ and such high end devices 3v3/1v8 switching can be reasonably implemented
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2019-12-23T03:28:06 < qyx> basically you don't have many options to use SD card in a low power 1V8 design
2019-12-23T03:29:06 < qyx> *s/except on/only on
2019-12-23T03:31:34 < qyx> is it that hard to have a separate vdd-sdmmc or vddio
2019-12-23T03:32:23 < qyx> considering we have been waiting for vddusb quite a long time..
2019-12-23T03:43:12 < doomba> karlp: https://postimg.cc/ykmDSGZJ
2019-12-23T03:43:26 < doomba> Dec 22 20:42:44 dartmoor kernel: usb 2-3: New USB device strings: Mfr=1, Product=2, SerialNumber=7
2019-12-23T03:43:27 < doomba> Dec 22 20:42:44 dartmoor kernel: usb 2-3: Product: CP2108 Quad USB to UART Bridge Controller
2019-12-23T03:43:29 < doomba> :)
2019-12-23T03:44:35 < doomba> the wire is because i don't have an atx power supply
2019-12-23T03:44:43 < doomba> i configured it to take power from there instead of vbus
2019-12-23T03:44:54 < doomba> so i'm jumping it for now to see if it works
2019-12-23T03:45:40 -!- con3 [~kvirc@41.182.27.6] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds]
2019-12-23T03:51:07 < doomba> all 4 uarts work
2019-12-23T03:51:38 < doomba> i soldered it in a frying pan because reflow oven not finished
2019-12-23T03:51:49 < doomba> 1st time ever using that method
2019-12-23T03:52:15 < doomba> lots of bridges on qfn. damaged some pads and there's still a bridge of two unused pins
2019-12-23T03:52:29 < doomba> while trying to fix bridges
2019-12-23T03:54:12 < qyx> uh, bridges on qfn?
2019-12-23T03:54:47 < qyx> don't you have a soldering iron?
2019-12-23T03:59:52 < qyx> Space-saving Flip Chip 25 package (2 x 2 x 0.605 mm, 0.4 mm bump pitch)
2019-12-23T04:00:21 < qyx> you know what can I do with such thing
2019-12-23T04:02:08 < doomba> yea i have a super shit $20 adjustable chinesium iron
2019-12-23T04:03:17 < doomba> i'm amazed this board even works. it's the first version from kikecad to jlcpcb and first qfn ever
2019-12-23T04:03:27 < qyx> apply some flux, clean the tip and drag along the QFN's side
2019-12-23T04:03:41 < doomba> yeah that's what i did but i was way too hot and stripped a couple pads
2019-12-23T04:03:47 < doomba> and too much pressure
2019-12-23T04:04:19 < doomba> after like 10 mins, i was like "oh ok so this is how you do it"
2019-12-23T04:04:28 < doomba> and the other sides fixed up nice and quick
2019-12-23T04:05:02 < qyx> adjust your xhinesium iron to < 300C
2019-12-23T04:05:26 < doomba> lead free solder paste
2019-12-23T04:05:29 < BrainDamage> also, as rule of thumb for next time, make more than one pcb, mistakes happen
2019-12-23T04:05:43 < doomba> BrainDamage: yea i have more pcbs and more BOM
2019-12-23T04:05:59 < doomba> was impatient so was like "heh. i'll just use frying pan"
2019-12-23T04:06:01 < qyx> also sont use lead free when learning to solder new components
2019-12-23T04:06:14 < doomba> qyx: why not?!
2019-12-23T04:06:36 < doomba> <- psycho
2019-12-23T04:07:09 < BrainDamage> some lead free alloys are ok
2019-12-23T04:07:21 < BrainDamage> but it takes a bit of experimentation to find them
2019-12-23T04:07:37 < BrainDamage> generally stuff with silver and copper are ok
2019-12-23T04:07:53 < doomba> yea these run hot
2019-12-23T04:07:59 < qyx> bo
2019-12-23T04:08:01 < qyx> no
2019-12-23T04:08:05 < doomba> i got up to like 263C
2019-12-23T04:08:13 < qyx> definitely not
2019-12-23T04:08:20 < doomba> and was like "shit... i probably shouldn't be here" and pulled it off the stove
2019-12-23T04:08:22 < qyx> tjere are lead free <230
2019-12-23T04:13:07 < qyx> wait what
2019-12-23T04:13:59 < qyx> leaded soldering alloys contain radioisotopes emmiting alpha particles
2019-12-23T04:14:16 < qyx> which could cause bit flips
2019-12-23T04:14:40 < qyx> til: this world is strange
2019-12-23T04:32:44 < kakinull> lead is slightly radioactive
2019-12-23T04:40:14 < doomba> derp
2019-12-23T04:40:22 < doomba> i soldered every diode and led on the board backwards
2019-12-23T04:40:35 < doomba> but the configurator tool works
2019-12-23T04:54:00 < doomba> lunix has no gpio for cp2108
2019-12-23T04:54:07 < doomba> shouldn't be too hard to add it
2019-12-23T04:54:41 < kakinull> that is very beginner derp
2019-12-23T04:54:49 < doomba> kakinull: rofl yeah
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2019-12-23T05:24:50 < doomba> so i didn't want to end up in linux kernel drivers land but it looks like that's what's gonna happen
2019-12-23T05:25:07 < doomba> there's already vendor block/port config/gpio functionality for the cp2104
2019-12-23T05:26:07 < doomba> so cp2108 is doable. it's just a matter of adding a struct for the port config and a function to init and expose the gpios
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2019-12-23T06:23:52 < jadew> sup? what's the topic today?
2019-12-23T06:24:06 < jadew> leaded solder?
2019-12-23T06:24:51 < jadew> I stopped using that, even for personal use
2019-12-23T06:25:04 < jadew> keeping track of which board is using what type of solder is annoying
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2019-12-23T06:38:51 < dongs> ya same
2019-12-23T06:38:59 < dongs> my leadfree solder has better core flux to
2019-12-23T06:39:05 < dongs> so its easier to solder with actually
2019-12-23T06:39:06 < dongs> than leaded shit
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2019-12-23T07:16:40 < dongs> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mP5ZVPwP7bg i found ohsix
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2019-12-23T07:59:09 < qyx> dongs jadew which alloys do you use?
2019-12-23T08:00:40 < dongs> Sn 3.0 Ag 0.5 Cu
2019-12-23T08:00:44 < dongs> is waht I got
2019-12-23T08:00:57 < dongs> SF-A0408 jap solder
2019-12-23T08:01:30 < qyx> probably the other way around no
2019-12-23T08:01:33 < qyx> lets chxeck
2019-12-23T08:01:48 < dongs> Sn is remainder
2019-12-23T08:01:54 < dongs> 3.0 Ag 0.5 Cu
2019-12-23T08:01:58 < dongs> so 96.wahtever Sn
2019-12-23T08:04:51 < qyx> yeah
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2019-12-23T10:30:04 < jadew> qyx, https://uk.farnell.com/stannol/631900/solder-wire-95-5-3-8-0-7-0-5mm/dp/8400270
2019-12-23T10:32:52 < catphish> bah, no lead
2019-12-23T10:34:09 < dongs> WTF is wrong with altifuck
2019-12-23T10:34:18 < dongs> i tell it not to fucking make rooms/classes
2019-12-23T10:34:19 < jadew> it's not kicad
2019-12-23T10:34:20 < dongs> it still does
2019-12-23T10:34:21 < dongs> piece of shit
2019-12-23T10:34:26 < dongs> yeah but unlike kikecad it actually works
2019-12-23T10:36:08 < catphish> try using kicad
2019-12-23T10:36:15 < catphish> it's free so it must be good
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2019-12-23T10:56:01 < jadew> I bought Solidworks
2019-12-23T10:56:12 < jadew> so far I like fusion360 better
2019-12-23T10:56:15 < dongs> lemme know if you figure out how to use it
2019-12-23T10:56:22 < dongs> i isntalled it the other day and tried drawing
2019-12-23T10:56:32 < dongs> i dont see a quick way to enter dimensions without first rough-clicking something
2019-12-23T10:56:38 < dongs> i was hoping tab or some other key would let me key in a size.
2019-12-23T10:56:47 < jadew> yep, that's the first thing I tried too
2019-12-23T10:57:05 < dongs> but now i gotta draw, let it be, the edit the dimension in one of the sidebars.
2019-12-23T10:57:06 < jadew> it seems you have to draw a shape first and then you can edit its properties
2019-12-23T10:57:12 < jadew> yeah
2019-12-23T10:57:12 < dongs> fuck that is annoying.
2019-12-23T10:58:00 < jadew> I'll have to watch some tutorials, maybe I pick up some techniques
2019-12-23T10:58:15 < jadew> I don't like the mouse navigation either, but I can probably get used to it
2019-12-23T10:58:27 < dongs> yep, middle button to drag shit is fuck off
2019-12-23T10:58:27 < jadew> also, I can't find shortcuts for shapes
2019-12-23T10:58:56 < dongs> there's onle one for LINE
2019-12-23T10:58:57 < dongs> thats it
2019-12-23T10:58:59 < dongs> the others you gotta click
2019-12-23T10:59:02 < dongs> unless im missing something
2019-12-23T10:59:13 < jadew> yeah, I'm under the same impression too
2019-12-23T11:01:25 < jadew> food time, ttyl
2019-12-23T11:06:39 < dongs> https://i.imgur.com/a0qRnnE.png thats about as far as i got
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2019-12-23T11:40:24 < qyx> jadew: even more ag? hm
2019-12-23T11:40:34 < qyx> ok, thanks
2019-12-23T11:42:09 < qyx> now I am using what dongs said Sn96.5Ag3Cu0.5
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2019-12-23T12:08:39 < zyp> qyx, switches, if present, would be on the regulated 5V bus
2019-12-23T12:08:53 < zyp> power sourcing cards would source to the varying input bus
2019-12-23T12:09:06 < zyp> that feeds the 5V reg on the backplane
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2019-12-23T13:37:53 < PaulFertser> Now this is a scope of a real maker: http://danyk.cz/osc1.jpg
2019-12-23T13:39:49 < qyx> lol
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2019-12-23T13:51:30 < tcth> Now this is a welding inverter of a real maker: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_CELYqo7KfQ&
2019-12-23T13:52:00 < Steffanx> Sexy.
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2019-12-23T14:07:50 < PaulFertser> That's the same guy!
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2019-12-23T14:10:12 < PaulFertser> I wonder if the way he intonates is because CZ people normally talk like that or if it's an additional joke.
2019-12-23T14:10:29 < qyx> I would not go closer than 5m to the thing
2019-12-23T14:10:47 < Steffanx> Damn, that english confuses me.
2019-12-23T14:10:53 < Steffanx> It sounds weird, french and weird. :D
2019-12-23T14:12:49 < Steffanx> do you use wifi qyx?
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2019-12-23T14:20:24 < qyx> Steffanx: yeah why do you ask
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2019-12-23T14:23:48 < Steffanx> nah nevermind :P
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2019-12-23T16:02:29 < qyx> you know something i don't have a clue about...
2019-12-23T16:16:13 < Thorn> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EqAtk5D1R1Y musics
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2019-12-23T16:35:07 < Ecco> Hi
2019-12-23T16:35:22 < Ecco> Dumb question: I'm running into a bug if I call a function in the middle of a cache invalidation
2019-12-23T16:35:33 < Ecco> (I tried to write my own cache invalidation function)
2019-12-23T16:35:47 < zyp> that's not a question
2019-12-23T16:35:50 < Ecco> I understand it might be a bad idea to do some memory accesses while cleaning the cache
2019-12-23T16:36:03 < Ecco> but I quite don't understand why
2019-12-23T16:37:26 < Ecco> So the quesiton: can a cache invalidation (i.e. write to DCCISW) lead to a "weird" memory state?
2019-12-23T16:37:43 < Ecco> weird as in "unexpectedly change content on the stack", for instance
2019-12-23T16:37:50 < zyp> which chip is this on?
2019-12-23T16:37:54 < Ecco> STM32F7
2019-12-23T16:38:00 < zyp> which F7?
2019-12-23T16:38:01 < Ecco> F730 to be precise
2019-12-23T16:38:19 < Ecco> I just thought cache invalidation would, well, remove some entries from the cache
2019-12-23T16:38:42 < Ecco> which could lead to slower performances. But I fail to see how it could change memory content as seen by the CPU
2019-12-23T16:46:53 < zyp> I don't see any related errata
2019-12-23T16:47:01 < zyp> and yes, I would expect the same as you
2019-12-23T16:47:10 < zyp> what's the bug you're seeing?
2019-12-23T16:50:19 < zyp> I assume that since you're invalidating cache in the first place, you're doing that to sort out some incoherency due to DMA or something? are you sure the issue is not related to that?
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2019-12-23T17:37:49 < zyp> qyx, have you put any thought into where you put ground pins and stuff?
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2019-12-23T17:38:27 < zyp> does it make sense to keep the locations from real pcie or not?
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2019-12-23T17:56:21 < qyx> yes, I was trying to use the pinout as is
2019-12-23T17:56:39 < qyx> ut I was not satisfied
2019-12-23T17:57:02 < qyx> so I started by ground on the back, vbus on the top side
2019-12-23T17:57:38 < qyx> and then grounds between signal lines
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2019-12-23T18:22:56 < doomba> so what's the trick with qfns so they don't bridge?
2019-12-23T18:28:09 < PaulFertser> doomba: are you testing your pcb baking oven?
2019-12-23T18:30:55 < doomba> nah still coding oven lol
2019-12-23T18:30:58 < doomba> i used frying pan
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2019-12-23T18:33:48 < zyp> doomba, proper footprints
2019-12-23T18:34:03 < PaulFertser> doomba: I think for the qfn question you'd want to share more details like how and what the paste was applied, pitch, mask, probably photo to illustrate etc.
2019-12-23T18:34:51 < doomba> paste is MG chemicals SAC305 leadfre
2019-12-23T18:34:57 < zyp> qfn is pretty footprint sensitive, many footprints barely have the pads protuding outside the package
2019-12-23T18:34:59 < doomba> used stencil
2019-12-23T18:35:04 < doomba> 0.5mm pitch i think
2019-12-23T18:35:06 < doomba> it's a qfn64
2019-12-23T18:35:09 < zyp> which means there's not a lot of area for excess solder to go
2019-12-23T18:35:22 < doomba> yeah
2019-12-23T18:35:39 < doomba> then i put it on a frying pan and use one of those IR temperature guns to keep it as close as possible
2019-12-23T18:35:41 < doomba> even thuogh it's manual
2019-12-23T18:35:59 < doomba> what happens is some paste bubbles up on the sides, bridging here and there
2019-12-23T18:36:03 < doomba> i cleaned it up with an iron
2019-12-23T18:36:11 < zyp> just make the pads longer outside the package and you'll have less bridging
2019-12-23T18:36:25 < doomba> zyp: yeah that makes sense
2019-12-23T18:36:32 < doomba> the footprint i'm using is the short pads
2019-12-23T18:36:38 < doomba> there is a "hand solder" footprint in kikecad i think
2019-12-23T18:45:29 < zyp> qyx, I think it makes sense to pair up both sides for power rails, makes it easy to place some vias to get them on the same layer (or dump them into an inner layer)
2019-12-23T18:47:16 < PaulFertser> I have a feeling that DiodeGoneWild guy is trolling us in the welding inverter video. He can't be serious showing the label of the shoes box used as a mask.
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2019-12-23T18:58:27 < zyp> qyx, https://bin.jvnv.net/file/e0Y2y.png
2019-12-23T18:58:35 < Steffanx> what. where PaulFertser?
2019-12-23T18:59:12 < zyp> qyx, leaning towards swapping B8/B9 with A10/A11 to pair those
2019-12-23T19:00:16 < zyp> A13/A14 and A16/A17 seems like an obvious upgrade path for USB3
2019-12-23T19:05:22 < PaulFertser> Steffanx: where you said sexy: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_CELYqo7KfQ
2019-12-23T19:07:15 < Steffanx> you didnt expect me to watch the entire video right?
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2019-12-23T19:10:00 < Steffanx> Since qyx is from the other side of .cz, do people really talk like that over there?
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2019-12-23T19:25:59 < zyp> what's a decent cheap high side switch?
2019-12-23T19:26:16 < zyp> 5V
2019-12-23T19:29:05 < Ultrasauce> how much current
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2019-12-23T19:29:55 < zyp> TBD
2019-12-23T19:30:12 < Ultrasauce> ballpark? is like 10 ohms resistance acceptable
2019-12-23T19:30:12 < zyp> not more than 3A, not less than 0.5A
2019-12-23T19:30:16 < Ultrasauce> oh yeah ok
2019-12-23T19:30:24 < qyx> I know one
2019-12-23T19:30:43 < qyx> I mean I did search recently
2019-12-23T19:30:53 < qyx> but atm idk the part no :p
2019-12-23T19:31:02 < zyp> basically I want it large enough that the bottleneck is the vreg, not the switch, and I haven't picked a vreg yet
2019-12-23T19:31:40 < qyx> tps62825 for vreg
2019-12-23T19:32:09 < zyp> not for VIN->VBUS
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2019-12-23T19:32:28 < qyx> then wait
2019-12-23T19:32:37 < Ultrasauce> dmg2301?
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2019-12-23T19:33:08 < zyp> Ultrasauce, looks like EOL
2019-12-23T19:33:18 < qyx> tps54240?
2019-12-23T19:33:34 < qyx> I used this one for 24->5V
2019-12-23T19:34:31 < zyp> looks interesting, but I'm not picking a vreg now
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2019-12-23T19:35:22 < qyx> Steffanx: isnt he imitating an indian?
2019-12-23T19:35:46 < qyx> doesn't sound like slovak or czech speaking english
2019-12-23T19:35:52 < Steffanx> i hope so qyx
2019-12-23T19:36:14 < qyx> we dont speak such softish
2019-12-23T19:39:01 < qyx> zyp: you have more VINs than VBUSes
2019-12-23T19:39:29 < zyp> yes
2019-12-23T19:39:59 < qyx> do you want to buck-convert on the backplane
2019-12-23T19:41:00 < doomba> so i had to brush over the sides of the qfn a couple more times to get things working
2019-12-23T19:41:03 < doomba> Dec 23 12:40:54 dartmoor kernel: usb 2-1: New USB device strings: Mfr=1, Product=2, SerialNumber=7
2019-12-23T19:41:05 < doomba> Dec 23 12:40:54 dartmoor kernel: usb 2-1: Product: CP2108 Cluster Controller v01 Build #2
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2019-12-23T19:41:49 < zyp> qyx, yes
2019-12-23T19:41:50 < zyp> https://bin.jvnv.net/file/EwY8R.png
2019-12-23T19:41:50 < doomba> everything works on this one... except gpios ofc. because there's no code for that.
2019-12-23T19:43:06 < zyp> qyx, the plan is that VBUS will be a plain regulated 5V just like normal USB would supply
2019-12-23T19:43:29 < zyp> simple devices would use that, drop it to a local 3.3V or whatever
2019-12-23T19:44:15 < zyp> cards that require more power can source it from VIN through their own 24V-capable reg
2019-12-23T19:44:37 < zyp> cards that don't (and also won't provide VIN) will just ignore it
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2019-12-23T19:46:48 < qyx> mhm
2019-12-23T19:47:00 < qyx> if I wanted to avoid vreg on the backplane, I could do the conversion on a board
2019-12-23T19:47:00 < qyx> but which one then
2019-12-23T19:47:30 < qyx> re powerswitch, I am using some tps with 4A capability
2019-12-23T19:47:44 < zyp> you quickly end up with dedicated power boards/slots that way
2019-12-23T19:48:04 < qyx> there will be dedicated boards
2019-12-23T19:48:32 < zyp> I wanna keep flexibility
2019-12-23T19:48:37 < qyx> but not slots
2019-12-23T19:48:57 < zyp> same
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2019-12-23T19:50:43 < qyx> bash: git: command not found
2019-12-23T19:50:45 < qyx> ok then
2019-12-23T19:51:09 < qyx> wait it is in the schematic I jhave shown you
2019-12-23T19:52:55 < zyp> I figure most of my cards will make do with a couple hundred milliamps of 5V (including legacy usb devices in a passive adapter board)
2019-12-23T19:53:06 < zyp> so it makes sense for backplane to have a regulator to provide that
2019-12-23T19:54:10 < qyx> the most power hungry board I have made so far was around 300mW
2019-12-23T19:54:38 < qyx> (for this "project")
2019-12-23T19:54:52 < zyp> boards with access to a power source (e.g. PoE) will then be able to feed the backplane reg through VIN
2019-12-23T19:55:15 < zyp> and other boards with special needs can bypass the backplane reg and grab what they need directly from VIN
2019-12-23T19:55:38 < zyp> to me this seems like the best tradeoff between simple and flexible
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2019-12-23T19:56:55 < zyp> in practice I expect most stuff is gonna run from the backplane
2019-12-23T19:58:00 < zyp> even ethernet board will probably run from VBUS, only feeding PoE power to VIN
2019-12-23T19:59:04 < zyp> also I decided that slapping a MCU on the backplane itself both lets me control slot power properly and also lets me deal with any hub configuration if needed
2019-12-23T19:59:20 < zyp> originally I were thinking to just put down a config eeprom
2019-12-23T19:59:33 < zyp> but then I'd have to figure out a way to load that eeprom
2019-12-23T20:00:32 < zyp> easier to just let the mcu handle it all
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2019-12-23T20:11:16 < qyx> ok for now I will not consider Vin on x1 connector
2019-12-23T20:11:45 < qyx> 5V at 4A should be enough for 95% of my applications
2019-12-23T20:12:22 < zyp> will no x1 cards feed VIN?
2019-12-23T20:12:26 < qyx> except some niche high power energy shizzling which I don't consider the main goal
2019-12-23T20:12:49 < qyx> (was that word shizzling?)
2019-12-23T20:13:08 < qyx> no, they will sin or source vbus
2019-12-23T20:13:54 < zyp> hmm
2019-12-23T20:14:04 < zyp> that's also an approach, that'd simplify stuff
2019-12-23T20:16:39 < zyp> but, nah
2019-12-23T20:17:38 < zyp> it'd save me the 5V reg from the backplane and allow me to run everything from plain USB power
2019-12-23T20:19:02 < zyp> but it'd sacrifice some flexibility to do that
2019-12-23T20:22:56 < zyp> by the way, has anybody seen a PCB-mount SMPS with a built in C8 socket or similar? (idea being that 230V goes straight from C8 into SMPS, keeping dangerous voltages from the PCB)
2019-12-23T20:23:50 < qyx> c8?
2019-12-23T20:24:14 < zyp> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/IEC_60320#C7/C8_coupler
2019-12-23T20:25:14 < zyp> would have been convenient to have something that you can slap on a PCB, plug 230V into and still have the PCB being safe to touch
2019-12-23T20:25:57 < qyx> I considered SMT PSU with a SMT connector protruding the front panel
2019-12-23T20:26:10 < qyx> so there would be no exposed traces
2019-12-23T20:27:05 < zyp> that's a possibility too
2019-12-23T20:27:16 < zyp> or it could all be covered in epoxy
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2019-12-23T20:50:35 < qyx> https://www.meanwell.com/webapp/product/search.aspx?prod=IRM-20
2019-12-23T20:50:50 < qyx> but neither SMT nor low profile
2019-12-23T20:51:52 < qyx> it would need to have EFD or similar magnetics to fit inside 12mm
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2019-12-23T21:02:11 < zyp> 12mm?
2019-12-23T21:03:23 < catphish> mine's a lot bigger than that
2019-12-23T21:03:31 < catphish> </nocontext>
2019-12-23T21:05:18 < qyx> the slot is 3TE wide
2019-12-23T21:05:28 < qyx> so 5.08x3
2019-12-23T21:06:13 < qyx> + pcb and space from the back
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2019-12-23T21:13:51 < doomba> a corsair rm750x atx psu has arrived
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2019-12-23T21:17:07 < zyp> qyx, what's a TE?
2019-12-23T21:28:42 < qyx> subrack width unit
2019-12-23T21:28:51 < qyx> TE or HP
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2019-12-23T21:33:15 < tcth> alright boys, you know the drill: tell me a sad story
2019-12-23T21:33:42 < zyp> no
2019-12-23T21:35:05 < zyp> qyx, I haven't decided on a slot spacing yet, but I'm leaning towards 20mm
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2019-12-23T21:36:08 < Ultrasauce> i have an unsad story
2019-12-23T21:36:12 < Ultrasauce> solder braid is very nice
2019-12-23T21:36:52 < Ultrasauce> it turns hamfisted bridging into a thing that is not that
2019-12-23T21:38:35 < tcth> nicely said, Ultrasauce
2019-12-23T21:40:30 < zyp> I'm doing my first hierarchical design in altium
2019-12-23T21:40:55 < tcth> huh? I never did any design in altium w/o using that
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2019-12-23T21:41:23 < tcth> I alway smake separate blocks for the PSU, user interfaces, processing, each sensor and so on
2019-12-23T21:41:30 < tcth> then usually things also fit on an A4 or A3 page
2019-12-23T21:41:50 < zyp> I've always just made flat multi-sheet designs
2019-12-23T21:42:29 < tcth> the PCB you layouted for me also used hierarchic designs AFAIK or at least the other product that was being developed definitely did. one of the two.
2019-12-23T21:42:47 < tcth> shouldn´t make a difference when doing just the PCB itself tho I guess
2019-12-23T21:43:03 < zyp> I don't count projects I haven't made the schematics for :)
2019-12-23T21:43:19 < zyp> I've specced/reviewed hierarchical designs before
2019-12-23T21:44:36 < tcth> aah ^^
2019-12-23T21:45:07 < Steffanx> Tectu joined us again on irc today.
2019-12-23T21:45:17 < zyp> anyway, so far my experience is that this doesn't seem worthwhile for simple designs
2019-12-23T21:45:30 < tcth> Steffanx, would you rate that as a good, neutral or bad thing?
2019-12-23T21:45:38 < Steffanx> A sad story.
2019-12-23T21:45:42 < tcth> :D
2019-12-23T21:45:44 < zyp> in this design, it makes sense because I'm instancing one sheet multiple times
2019-12-23T21:46:13 < zyp> but for simple designs, might as well just go with flat schematics
2019-12-23T21:46:22 < Steffanx> affirmative.
2019-12-23T21:47:04 < zyp> I can also see some value for really complex designs, where it might be useful to look at parts of it as black boxes
2019-12-23T21:47:33 < tcth> zyp, that last reason is what I do in all my designs, even simpler ones
2019-12-23T21:48:09 < tcth> zyp, I didn´t experience a lot of overhead doing it that way. I´d like to learn more about your experience
2019-12-23T21:48:27 < zyp> https://bin.jvnv.net/file/EwY8R.png <- here's how my current top lewel schematic looks
2019-12-23T21:48:40 < tcth> yeah, that looks good :)
2019-12-23T21:49:19 < zyp> well, first of all I'm annoyed that I can't make a bus of a harness :p
2019-12-23T21:49:30 < tcth> altium 15?
2019-12-23T21:49:34 < zyp> the C analog would be an array of a struct
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2019-12-23T21:50:02 < zyp> yes, but as far as I read it haven't changed in later versions
2019-12-23T21:50:41 < tcth> hmm, don´t have AD installed on this machine :<
2019-12-23T21:51:14 < qyx> zyp: I'd like to use such nice metric spacing too but subracks are all weird in that sense
2019-12-23T21:51:26 < qyx> board sizes are metric, pitch is imperial
2019-12-23T21:51:39 < qyx> height is in U which is imperial
2019-12-23T21:51:45 < zyp> harnesses are neat, but when I can't make a bus of them, I can't use the Repeat() function to make multiple instances
2019-12-23T21:52:07 < zyp> like USB2_DOWN[1..6] or however the notation would go
2019-12-23T21:52:19 < tcth> zyp, mmh, I understand
2019-12-23T21:52:30 < zyp> and I simply refuse to make one bus of DP and one bus of DM
2019-12-23T21:53:00 < zyp> and then I added the ID pins afterwards, making the point moot
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2019-12-23T21:56:25 < bitmask> is a 7" chef knife big? It sounds big but I cant picture it
2019-12-23T21:56:56 < bitmask> I'm guessing that doesn't include the handle
2019-12-23T21:57:19 < zyp> 18cm-ish? sounds like a typical size
2019-12-23T21:57:51 < bitmask> its for my gf's grandfather, I'm worried it might be too big for him, maybe I should get a 5.5" (14 cm) prep knife
2019-12-23T21:58:08 < Steffanx> Do you have a soul bitmask?
2019-12-23T21:58:21 < bitmask> huh?
2019-12-23T21:58:39 < zyp> apparently the largest chef knife I've got in the kitchen is 20cm, so a bit smaller than that
2019-12-23T21:58:47 < Steffanx> I saw your photo on your github page :P
2019-12-23T21:58:58 < bitmask> ohhh
2019-12-23T21:58:59 < bitmask> ginger
2019-12-23T21:59:01 < Steffanx> :D
2019-12-23T21:59:03 < bitmask> funny...
2019-12-23T21:59:10 < Steffanx> Sorry. i had to.
2019-12-23T21:59:10 < bitmask> :P
2019-12-23T21:59:12 < zyp> and that size is the one I use the most, so IMO it's a good size
2019-12-23T21:59:29 < bitmask> ok thanks zyp
2019-12-23T21:59:30 < zyp> wife seems to prefer the smaller ones though
2019-12-23T21:59:37 < zyp> so I guess it's individual
2019-12-23T22:00:12 < bitmask> ahh hmm, I guess Im just worried hes gonna hurt himself, he does the cooking for the household so I thought a nice knife would be a decent gift, cant really think of anything else
2019-12-23T22:00:26 < bitmask> hes kinda frail at this point though :/
2019-12-23T22:00:57 < bitmask> and hes small, I think I should go with the 5.5"
2019-12-23T22:01:35 < PaulFertser> My kitchen knife has about 0.192 m cutting edge length. I would be surprised if a real "chef knife" would be considerably shorter than that, I do not think it would be handy.
2019-12-23T22:02:01 < zyp> wikipedia seems to indicate 20cm is typical: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chef%27s_knife
2019-12-23T22:02:50 < PaulFertser> bitmask: with any decent knife it's pretty easy to cut oneself, it doesn't depend on the length.
2019-12-23T22:02:51 < bitmask> 18cm is a chef knife, the 14cm is a prep knife but the shape is pretty similiar
2019-12-23T22:03:22 < bitmask> but if its awkward to hold or if you have less control over it, then there is more of a chance of it happening
2019-12-23T22:03:25 < zyp> so the question is, what will it be used for?
2019-12-23T22:04:05 < bitmask> cutting up meat and veggies I guess
2019-12-23T22:04:14 < PaulFertser> bitmask: there's just two common handle styles, so you can just ask what he prefers and then any real knife would be handy to hold.
2019-12-23T22:04:36 < PaulFertser> Proper knives are properly balanced etc.
2019-12-23T22:05:06 < bitmask> ehh I'm about to go to the store, I'll see what they look like in person
2019-12-23T22:05:27 < PaulFertser> bitmask: there's the "japanese" style and "european" handles.
2019-12-23T22:05:49 < PaulFertser> Unfamiliar handle might be "awkward".
2019-12-23T22:05:53 < bitmask> fuck
2019-12-23T22:05:58 < bitmask> they are selling out
2019-12-23T22:06:00 < zyp> remember that using a too small knife is dangerous too, larger blades are easier to control
2019-12-23T22:06:01 < bitmask> grrr
2019-12-23T22:06:20 < bitmask> it said available yesterday
2019-12-23T22:06:42 < bitmask> damnit
2019-12-23T22:07:07 < PaulFertser> There's also a question of the desired HRC AFAIK. Some prefer softer but they require regular sharpening. Some prefer real hard ones.
2019-12-23T22:07:10 < bitmask> im not driving an hour away for a knife
2019-12-23T22:16:52 < PaulFertser> A knife is an important and expensive tool, it can cost more than a temperature-controlled soldering iron, and is going to be used for years regularly. Sounds like something worth an hour ride.
2019-12-23T22:22:56 < Cracki> knife lobbyist? visit london, lots of customers
2019-12-23T22:27:24 < zyp> I prefer cheap knives
2019-12-23T22:27:57 < zyp> I'm lazy and like just throwing them in the dishwasher after use, I don't want a knife expensive enough I wouldn't do that with
2019-12-23T22:29:50 < Steffanx> Lazy would be have you wife do ALL of the work.
2019-12-23T22:37:15 < englishman> Boeing fires embattled CEO Dennis Muilenburg
2019-12-23T22:37:18 < englishman> rip boeing
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2019-12-23T22:38:12 < Steffanx> I read sad news about WeWork today as well englishman. Sobank cannot get the money together?
2019-12-23T22:38:17 < Steffanx> soft.
2019-12-23T22:38:21 < englishman> haha
2019-12-23T22:38:24 < englishman> link?
2019-12-23T22:38:35 < Steffanx> i tried to find a non-dutch source, couldnt find it this morning
2019-12-23T22:38:42 < englishman> yoshimario son burned through too much arab money
2019-12-23T22:38:44 < englishman> dutch is fine
2019-12-23T22:39:06 < Steffanx> https://www.nu.nl/economie/6019761/wework-reddingsdeal-in-gevaar-softbank-krijgt-financiering-niet-rond.html
2019-12-23T22:39:51 < Steffanx> oh https://www.reuters.com/article/us-softbank-group-wework/softbanks-3-billion-wework-financing-talks-stall-with-japan-banks-sources-idUSKBN1YR0N0
2019-12-23T22:41:28 < englishman> lol @ borrowing money to funnel into that dumpster fire of a company
2019-12-23T22:44:46 < invzim> did anyone mention KNIVES? :)
2019-12-23T22:45:26 < invzim> can't go wrong with a Global G-2
2019-12-23T22:45:45 < invzim> then get some stones and learn to use them
2019-12-23T22:49:13 < doomba> https://postimg.cc/PNg4Y09H
2019-12-23T22:49:30 < PaulFertser> invzim: seems quite cool!
2019-12-23T22:51:34 < qyx> boeing ceo fired?
2019-12-23T22:51:43 < qyx> because of starliner fail?
2019-12-23T22:52:57 < qyx> oh because of 737 maz
2019-12-23T22:54:27 < specing> airbus be like ... $_$
2019-12-23T22:54:34 < PaulFertser> qyx: do you know if that's common for CZ folks to have that weird intonation that we hear on DiodeGoesWild video?
2019-12-23T22:55:34 < qyx> PaulFertser: I answered Steffanx, I think it is imitating an indian or whatever
2019-12-23T22:55:34 < Steffanx> <qyx> doesn't sound like slovak or czech speaking english
2019-12-23T22:55:52 < Steffanx> i think he is not. Even his first video is a bit like it, maybe a bit less over the top
2019-12-23T22:56:09 < qyx> or he has weird accent
2019-12-23T22:56:22 < PaulFertser> Thank you, sorry for missing the reply.
2019-12-23T22:56:31 < zyp> sounds like done on purpose for comedic effect
2019-12-23T22:56:35 < qyx> we usually don't speak so soft
2019-12-23T22:57:15 < Steffanx> Nah, some people ARE just like this. no need to act :)
2019-12-23T23:00:10 < qyx> I cannot find ANY ac/dc psu lower than 20mm
2019-12-23T23:00:21 < qyx> >20W
2019-12-23T23:00:22 < Steffanx> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_YK4hSeO9yc he also does it in his non-english vids
2019-12-23T23:04:19 < Steffanx> 20W? No Volts?
2019-12-23T23:05:43 < qyx> ok thats a typical Czech
2019-12-23T23:10:03 < englishman> has anyone here tried those $1k chink tig welders
2019-12-23T23:10:08 < englishman> they look super cool
2019-12-23T23:11:48 < Steffanx> pass
2019-12-23T23:16:55 < qyx> Steffanx: uni AC input, 5V/4A
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2019-12-23T23:39:37 < bitmask> sweeeeet, went to my local store and they had the knife I wanted, glad I didn't just drive to the store over an hour away
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2019-12-23T23:48:55 < PaulFertser> bitmask: so what is it?
2019-12-23T23:49:09 -!- markus-k [~markus@server01.comtime-it.eu] has joined ##stm32
2019-12-23T23:52:07 < qyx> is it that hard to make a responsive painting app for android
2019-12-23T23:52:36 < Ultrasauce> the only one ive liked came with the nvidia shield tablet
2019-12-23T23:52:49 < bitmask> https://www.bedbathandbeyond.com/store/product/zwilling-reg-j-a-henckels-pro-7-inch-chef-knife/1061800755
2019-12-23T23:53:12 < bitmask> nothing crazy, just seemed like a good price as all their others are $150 and good reviews
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2019-12-23T23:56:40 < PaulFertser> bitmask: cool!
2019-12-23T23:57:24 < bitmask> and those germans know how to slice up meat ;)
--- Day changed Tue Dec 24 2019
2019-12-24T00:16:01 < Cracki> *lacht auf Deutsch*
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2019-12-24T01:02:51 < zyp> looked at power switches at LCSC, MT9700 is like 5¢ and can do 5V/2A at 25C ambient
2019-12-24T01:33:22 < qyx> tps25221 here
2019-12-24T01:33:35 < qyx> probably 10x more expensive
2019-12-24T01:34:28 < zyp> AP22802 seems to be cheapest non-china-brand on lcsc
2019-12-24T01:34:36 < zyp> not to bad at <8¢
2019-12-24T01:34:39 < zyp> too
2019-12-24T01:35:13 < zyp> bit over twice that at digikey
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2019-12-24T01:36:42 < zyp> hmm, NRND though
2019-12-24T01:37:26 < zyp> footprints seems to be much the same though
2019-12-24T01:38:16 < qyx> the first has an adjustable current limit and no fault outpit
2019-12-24T01:38:25 < qyx> the latter the otjer way aroud
2019-12-24T01:38:27 < zyp> yeah
2019-12-24T01:38:44 < zyp> there's 5-pin parts with either and 6-pin parts with both
2019-12-24T01:38:58 < qyx> oh I didn't notice
2019-12-24T01:39:16 < zyp> no, I mean, for the ones I've been looking at
2019-12-24T01:40:24 < zyp> https://datasheet.lcsc.com/szlcsc/1902221503_JoulWatt-Tech-JW7115-2_C371425.pdf <- this JW7111 seems to drop right into your footprint
2019-12-24T01:41:28 < zyp> I'm not sure I care too much about current limiting
2019-12-24T01:41:44 < zyp> so I'd rather save the resistor
2019-12-24T01:45:39 < qyx> :D
2019-12-24T01:46:03 < qyx> hm I cannot find sdio level translator in an usable package
2019-12-24T01:46:08 < qyx> all wlcsp
2019-12-24T01:46:21 < zyp> heh
2019-12-24T01:48:34 < qyx> BGA MICROSTAR JUNIOR | 24
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2019-12-24T02:33:34 < machinehum> Internet says I can't drink and take melatonin
2019-12-24T02:33:58 < machinehum> What do they know, man.
2019-12-24T02:37:46 < Thorn> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nqXSS-lchaE&list=PL8psnNw6IDjWD08zWr9DdBcqk-6nunPxg&index=9 musics
2019-12-24T02:45:02 < kakipro> machinehum: nothing
2019-12-24T02:45:29 < kakipro> they don know shit
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2019-12-24T04:49:01 < Cracki> dude has over 400 more videos of excellent entertainment https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=84CMa2ApFi4
2019-12-24T04:54:46 < doomba> Cracki: do you like watching urban exploration vids?
2019-12-24T04:54:55 < Cracki> mebbeh
2019-12-24T04:55:11 < doomba> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jGPjj4B_jEk
2019-12-24T04:55:21 < doomba> like 2 hours long but really good
2019-12-24T04:55:44 < Cracki> curious hair cut
2019-12-24T04:55:56 < Cracki> waiting for xir to throw a molly
2019-12-24T04:56:22 < Cracki> love the prefab skyscrapers
2019-12-24T04:56:37 < Cracki> I miss them. grew up with them. don't have them here.
2019-12-24T04:57:26 < Cracki> I grew up with rivers and channels too. miss them. don't have them here. this place is a desert, except with foul smelling water coming out of the ground.
2019-12-24T04:58:21 < Cracki> sometimes I wish someone would turn this place into a nuclear waste land. flattening the place seems the only solution to the lack of city planning.
2019-12-24T04:58:56 < Cracki> cute russians there :>
2019-12-24T05:01:47 < Cracki> lol antifa dude is like "fascists gonna curbstomp us" and the locals are yeah paid hiking trip into nature
2019-12-24T05:15:48 < Cracki> uh they ran out of water before even getting there?
2019-12-24T05:16:32 < Cracki> each one of them should have started with... 10 liters or so
2019-12-24T05:18:39 < Cracki> romantic place
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2019-12-24T05:24:10 < dongs> how the fuck do I specify pin1 for a BGA compoent?
2019-12-24T05:27:48 < Cracki> uh, cut corner, paint dot on top, ...?
2019-12-24T05:28:15 < Cracki> that's not what you're asking tho
2019-12-24T05:53:15 < dongs> nope
2019-12-24T05:53:23 < dongs> pin1 marker for altidumb assembly thing
2019-12-24T05:53:33 < dongs> the draftsman picks up pin1 on normal packages beacuse of the pin index
2019-12-24T05:53:42 < dongs> but i dont see a way to specify that A1 is pin1 for BGA
2019-12-24T06:01:18 < dongs> welp i dont see any way to do it
2019-12-24T06:07:17 < dongs> god damn draftsman is fucking garbage
2019-12-24T06:07:21 < dongs> for actually doing anything useful
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2019-12-24T06:14:52 < Cracki> "reference marker display"
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2019-12-24T06:15:06 < Cracki> might you need to set that to enabled manually?
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2019-12-24T07:55:40 < dongs> yeah i enabled that
2019-12-24T07:55:50 < dongs> but it doesnt "guess" A1 for BGA
2019-12-24T07:55:56 < dongs> probably cuz the retarded logic only checks for pin #1
2019-12-24T07:56:07 < dongs> its ok i just drew a circle over whatever shti and called it done
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2019-12-24T07:56:19 < dongs> also who teh fuck neesd reference marker on a resistor
2019-12-24T07:56:31 < dongs> and you can't mass-select a bunch of parts or part group to change this
2019-12-24T07:56:32 < dongs> ...
2019-12-24T07:57:42 < Cracki> software guys. no dogfooding.
2019-12-24T07:58:57 < Cracki> the push in kicad development came from CERN guys who used it... but they're physicists and academics, their variable names are always single letters
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2019-12-24T09:00:03 < dongs> Cracki: cern uses altium way more than kikecad
2019-12-24T09:00:16 < dongs> cuz yanno it actually works
2019-12-24T09:00:41 < Cracki> kek
2019-12-24T09:00:49 < Cracki> smart choice
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2019-12-24T14:18:39 < tcth> happy christmas everyone
2019-12-24T14:27:57 < Steffanx> I feel offended tcth.
2019-12-24T14:28:14 < Steffanx> xmas is not for everyone.
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2019-12-24T14:40:57 < tcth> that doesn´t mean that it can´t be a happy time for you too
2019-12-24T14:48:08 < MerryCybertruck> https://patchwork.kernel.org/patch/10942667/
2019-12-24T14:48:12 < MerryCybertruck> ohhhhhhh i've been looking for you
2019-12-24T14:48:50 < Steffanx> Heh, your nick bugs my client MerryCybertruck
2019-12-24T14:49:08 < MerryCybertruck> HO HO HO! Merry Cybertruck!
2019-12-24T14:49:12 < Steffanx> https://imgur.com/a/uVMpRxn
2019-12-24T14:49:15 < MerryCybertruck> Father Elon will save us!
2019-12-24T14:49:41 < MerryCybertruck> oh. qcrappel
2019-12-24T14:50:38 < Steffanx> dont ctcp me moite!
2019-12-24T14:51:45 < tcth> Signed-off-by: Serge Semin <fancer.lancer@gmail.com>
2019-12-24T14:51:52 < tcth> sounds like dongs
2019-12-24T15:02:12 < Steffanx> no then would it have been gary. Niger.
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2019-12-24T17:29:21 < MerryCybertruck> https://logbook.pw/futile.mp4
2019-12-24T17:29:24 < MerryCybertruck> yeppers
2019-12-24T17:30:13 < MerryCybertruck> we now haz full spectrum domination of cp2108
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2019-12-24T17:42:32 < PaulFertser> Good to know MerryCybertruck
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2019-12-24T19:30:10 < Steffanx> is kakinull still alive?
2019-12-24T19:30:56 < kakinull> kinda
2019-12-24T19:33:13 * h4x0riz3d charges up teh defibrilat0r
2019-12-24T19:54:05 < englishman> got my $13,000 cheque from the government for buying a tesla
2019-12-24T19:54:12 < englishman> marry Christmas all
2019-12-24T19:59:59 < PaulFertser> why you offend us englishman?
2019-12-24T20:00:16 < englishman> happy hannukah to you specifically
2019-12-24T20:00:42 < PaulFertser> Thank you! I'll celebrate by deleting VS.Code.
2019-12-24T20:00:46 < englishman> merry motorcyclemas
2019-12-24T20:01:04 < englishman> may your two wheels always be vertical or close to vertical
2019-12-24T20:01:26 < PaulFertser> I'd have really hard time turning then, not all corners are banked :)
2019-12-24T20:04:27 < PaulFertser> btw, I tried to add a wooden bar to my MTB in a way that would allow only turning the front wheel to the right (or go straight). And with that "mod" right turns became really uncomfortable and odd. So counter-steering is indeed needed even on really slow speeds on pushbikes.
2019-12-24T20:04:39 < PaulFertser> I think that was an curious experiment, I suggest everyone try it.
2019-12-24T20:06:47 < Steffanx> ill pass. ok?
2019-12-24T20:11:38 < PaulFertser> Steffanx: aren't my results a bit surprising and so worth being independently verified?
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2019-12-24T20:48:56 < MerryCybertruck> well. not exactly
2019-12-24T20:49:05 < MerryCybertruck> the patch is flawed
2019-12-24T20:49:21 < MerryCybertruck> i emailed the guy but might not hear back
2019-12-24T20:54:03 < oz4ga> Merry Christmas to those who cares
2019-12-24T20:56:41 < qyx> and unlimited supply of potato salad
2019-12-24T20:57:59 < Steffanx> unlimited. damn
2019-12-24T20:58:37 < Steffanx> 🎅
2019-12-24T21:03:50 < leite> potato salad are the best, not irish here
2019-12-24T21:12:45 < qyx> englishman: a christmas gov's giveaway?
2019-12-24T21:13:28 < qyx> here we may have got 8000e for EV or 5000e for PHEV iirc
2019-12-24T21:13:39 < englishman> not bad
2019-12-24T21:13:41 < englishman> about the same
2019-12-24T21:13:47 < qyx> all money was allocated during the first 4 minutes
2019-12-24T21:13:51 < qyx> then it crashed
2019-12-24T21:13:55 < englishman> ha
2019-12-24T21:14:09 < qyx> so they repeated the process another day
2019-12-24T21:14:12 < englishman> this program has been on for a few years now
2019-12-24T21:16:44 < MerryCybertruck> ok so i found the "v2"
2019-12-24T21:16:50 < MerryCybertruck> it was in a different thread
2019-12-24T21:17:58 < MerryCybertruck> https://logbook.pw/cp2108_gpio.mp4
2019-12-24T21:18:01 < MerryCybertruck> all gpios working now
2019-12-24T21:22:48 < englishman> currently downloading the tesla update with stardew valley
2019-12-24T21:34:11 < Steffanx> Did you get locked out of your car yet, because the servers were down?
2019-12-24T21:34:26 < Steffanx> or are you smart enough to bring your key and not just your phone
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2019-12-24T22:23:00 < Thorn> merry xmas moneyed westerners
2019-12-24T22:35:00 < catphish> and a happy holidays to you
2019-12-24T22:35:25 < Thorn> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zg5QMysuSYg
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2019-12-24T23:04:34 < Cracki> based russian orthodox church says merry christmas https://www.abc.net.au/news/image/8165676-3x2-700x467.jpg
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2019-12-24T23:05:57 < PaulFertser> I'm not sure if that's interesting but the official russian orthodox church is still using Julian calendar so the christmas will have to wait for 13 days for them.
2019-12-24T23:23:26 -!- steve [~steve@ool-182f8dfd.dyn.optonline.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds]
2019-12-24T23:25:09 < Steffanx> aha
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2019-12-24T23:32:25 < jly> AH FUCK
2019-12-24T23:33:08 < Steffanx> Sounds all fucked up
2019-12-24T23:34:05 < jly> merry christmas
2019-12-24T23:34:16 < jly> from the hole on earth
2019-12-24T23:34:19 < jly> A U S TR A L I A
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2019-12-24T23:35:19 < jly> 6:35am in tokyo lol
2019-12-24T23:35:32 < specing> jly: your presents will include clean coal
2019-12-24T23:35:38 < jly> yes
2019-12-24T23:35:43 < jly> we eat it
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2019-12-24T23:43:43 < jly> Steffanx: is dr.B alright?
2019-12-24T23:44:50 < qyx> brexiting probably
2019-12-24T23:47:25 < jly> give it another 15 years
2019-12-24T23:47:33 < jly> nah 25
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2019-12-24T23:57:52 < Steffanx> He's SAFU. Jly
2019-12-24T23:58:48 < jly> thanks
--- Day changed Wed Dec 25 2019
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2019-12-25T00:15:12 < Cracki> strayans are awesome. they punch kangaroos!
2019-12-25T00:15:39 < Steffanx> Jly is a super Strayan.
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2019-12-25T00:34:44 < qyx> when there is a set of required features and I am happy because it is going to be an easy design
2019-12-25T00:34:55 < qyx> then I get an idea..
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2019-12-25T00:50:54 < steve> ST-Link isn't an IC? It's just software running on a ST micro?
2019-12-25T00:51:20 < qyx> yes
2019-12-25T00:56:41 < zyp> is there really that much of a difference? a lot of ICs you buy that performs a given function contains a cpu executing some firmware to do it
2019-12-25T00:58:31 < steve> I was wondering if the "st link chip" was drawing too much current. But knowing that it's a ST micro I can say it doesn't. I was looking for the "st link chip" datasheet, which doesn't exist
2019-12-25T00:59:27 < qyx> isnt there STM32F103 written on it?
2019-12-25T01:00:06 < steve> didn't look at it
2019-12-25T01:00:47 < steve> but i did see in the discovery board schematic it says STM32Fxxxx on the on-board ST-Link so then I was wondering if the st link dongle is the same
2019-12-25T01:02:35 < Cracki> craaap everyone is putting a fan on their raspberry pi 4 but that's not possible with this tft screen on top of it
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2019-12-25T01:08:37 < zyp> hmm, buses in altium seems kinda pointless
2019-12-25T01:10:05 < zyp> like, if I need to put net labels on all the wires fanned out from the bus, why do I even need to connect them to the bus?
2019-12-25T01:11:15 < steve> so it looks nice?
2019-12-25T01:11:59 < Cracki> you need to? I'd expec tthere to be some way to "label" all wires of a bus consistently
2019-12-25T01:13:37 < zyp> IMO it'd make more sense to only put the common net name on the bus object itself, and only the index on each wire that's split out
2019-12-25T01:13:45 < Cracki> agreed
2019-12-25T01:15:16 < steve> I thought EAGLE behaved the same, don't remember tho
2019-12-25T01:15:42 < Cracki> it's like those programs are still just mspaint for vector graphics
2019-12-25T01:17:04 < PaulFertser> dongs: in case you missed that, one of the confirmations that lunix hackers are really sick pricks: https://lwn.net/Articles/786593/ (Devuan Apr 1st "security breach" prank)
2019-12-25T01:38:24 < Cracki> wew neckbeards without a sense of humor
2019-12-25T01:38:28 < Cracki> "legal action"
2019-12-25T01:40:43 < zyp> hmm
2019-12-25T01:41:08 < BrainDamage> Cracki: I have a giant heatsink on mine
2019-12-25T01:41:16 < BrainDamage> costed 10 bucks
2019-12-25T01:41:17 < zyp> standard pcie footprint specs a hole size of 0.7mm, but doesn't say anything about how big an annular ring you should put around it
2019-12-25T01:41:27 < zyp> pitch is 2mm, what is reasonable?
2019-12-25T01:42:03 < Cracki> I have some small heatsinks I will test. I'm worried about them having no real circulation when they're covered under a display and inside a plastic case
2019-12-25T01:42:26 < BrainDamage> https://www.amazon.com/Geekworm-Raspberry-Computer-Aluminum-Compatible/dp/B07VD568FB
2019-12-25T01:42:35 < Cracki> maybe I'll just get some "riser" for the pin header and hotglue it all in place
2019-12-25T01:42:36 < BrainDamage> all the headers are accessible
2019-12-25T01:42:53 < BrainDamage> and the thing is built like a tank
2019-12-25T01:43:17 < Cracki> I saw that thing. that could still be an option. the tft would even have something to sit on with this. as it is, one corner is floating
2019-12-25T01:43:37 < BrainDamage> I have it in a metallic case, I used hex risers to have it tight against the metal case
2019-12-25T01:43:49 < BrainDamage> which fit perfectly the hex nuts
2019-12-25T01:44:02 < BrainDamage> and a silicone pad for better thermal transfer
2019-12-25T01:45:03 < BrainDamage> current stats are /opt/vc/bin/vcgencmd measure_temp
2019-12-25T01:45:03 < BrainDamage> temp=48.3'C
2019-12-25T01:45:37 < BrainDamage> uptime
2019-12-25T01:45:37 < BrainDamage> 23:45:25 up 24 days, 2:50, 1 user, load average: 1.42, 1.12, 1.04
2019-12-25T01:45:46 < qyx> zyp: I used such ring there remains enough space for 0.2mm track with 0.15mm gaps
2019-12-25T01:46:16 < Cracki> thx good to know it can keep coolish under that load
2019-12-25T01:46:22 < qyx> 0.7mm drill, 1.5mm ring iirc
2019-12-25T01:46:28 < zyp> qyx, it's 2mm pitch, so that's <= 1.5mm
2019-12-25T01:46:40 < qyx> or 1.4
2019-12-25T01:46:42 < qyx> yeah
2019-12-25T01:47:24 < zyp> I figured 1.4 might work, twice the hole dia
2019-12-25T01:49:43 < zyp> hmm, doesn't look super suitable for differential pairs though
2019-12-25T01:50:17 < zyp> not that that's really gonna matter for this
2019-12-25T01:51:06 < qyx> ethernet works over coat hangers
2019-12-25T01:51:40 < qyx> the metal ones
2019-12-25T01:57:43 < englishman> Steffanx: wut
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2019-12-25T02:09:35 < jadew> Merry Christmas everyone!
2019-12-25T02:13:34 * MerryCybertruck
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2019-12-25T02:19:28 < Cracki> nice, rpi4 firmware shows improvement with thermal imaging https://www.raspberrypi.org/blog/thermal-testing-raspberry-pi-4/
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2019-12-25T02:32:28 < zyp> hmm
2019-12-25T02:32:43 < zyp> routing this backplane on 2L is probably not gonna be very fun
2019-12-25T02:34:10 < emeb_mac> use 4. solid GND plane is good for signal integrity
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2019-12-25T02:34:32 < zyp> yeah, the design is just so simple it's hard to justify
2019-12-25T02:34:41 < BrainDamage> re power signaling, instead of making things complex, why not a fixed voltage supply rail?
2019-12-25T02:35:11 * emeb_mac remembers a backplane in a Hi-Rel aerospace box that had 38 layers.
2019-12-25T02:35:27 < zyp> emeb_mac, I'm basically making a fancy usb hub
2019-12-25T02:35:31 < BrainDamage> did it look like an edible wafer?
2019-12-25T02:35:50 < emeb_mac> zyp: fun! how many ports?
2019-12-25T02:36:04 < emeb_mac> BrainDamage: yeah - it was pretty thick
2019-12-25T02:36:11 < emeb_mac> THICC
2019-12-25T02:37:13 < zyp> https://bin.jvnv.net/file/H7vcx.png one upstream slot, six downstream slots, seventh port to onboard mcu
2019-12-25T02:38:24 < emeb_mac> cool
2019-12-25T02:38:33 < MerryCybertruck> some of you have been crackin' on breaking stm32 security features no?
2019-12-25T02:38:57 < zyp> MerryCybertruck, any particular you have in mind?
2019-12-25T02:39:13 < emeb_mac> hmph - why bother?
2019-12-25T02:39:21 < MerryCybertruck> since i've already rube goldberg'd this cluster project, i figure why not go even more autism
2019-12-25T02:40:14 < MerryCybertruck> i want to encrypt the emmcs on these babies
2019-12-25T02:41:44 < MerryCybertruck> so i'm thinking about building a board that holds a key
2019-12-25T02:42:12 < MerryCybertruck> how secure is it when you protect it from readout?
2019-12-25T02:42:16 < zyp> idk what your project is
2019-12-25T02:42:43 < emeb_mac> there have been a few articles about ways around the flash protection.
2019-12-25T02:42:54 < emeb_mac> it's not bulletproof of course
2019-12-25T02:42:57 < MerryCybertruck> zyp: i'm building a cluster of arm SBCs
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2019-12-25T02:43:19 < emeb_mac> but the amount of work needed to break it is probably more trouble than most products are worth
2019-12-25T02:43:19 < BrainDamage> you can get tpm chips which are hardened against most common attacks
2019-12-25T02:43:31 < BrainDamage> one of them is even from st iirc
2019-12-25T02:43:36 < MerryCybertruck> oh neat
2019-12-25T02:43:45 < zyp> they are expensive though
2019-12-25T02:43:50 < MerryCybertruck> like how expensive?
2019-12-25T02:43:52 < emeb_mac> I think Adafruit sells that on a little breakout
2019-12-25T02:44:00 < zyp> or
2019-12-25T02:44:25 < zyp> nevermind me, I'm talking before I think
2019-12-25T02:44:33 < zyp> I were thinking about the secure MCUs
2019-12-25T02:45:20 < zyp> I asked ST about the NDA stuff a while ago, they didn't wanna talk to me unless I were gonna buy like a hundred thousand of those
2019-12-25T02:48:16 < zyp> anyway, a stm32 with ROP2 is probably secure enough if you don't leave any holes and don't have a threat model where anybody is actually investing significant resources into breaking into your stuff
2019-12-25T02:48:42 < zyp> I'd worry more about other attacks
2019-12-25T02:48:56 < BrainDamage> btw out of curiosity, why did you go with a custom psu instead of PoE?
2019-12-25T02:49:04 < zyp> who did?
2019-12-25T02:49:12 < BrainDamage> MerryCybertruck
2019-12-25T02:49:18 < zyp> oh
2019-12-25T02:49:29 < zyp> I probably need to see MerryCybertruck's project
2019-12-25T02:49:55 < BrainDamage> it's doomba
2019-12-25T02:50:10 < BrainDamage> they've talked about the project a few times before
2019-12-25T02:50:15 < MerryCybertruck> BrainDamage: the rock64s need a seperate module for PoE
2019-12-25T02:50:55 < MerryCybertruck> instead of putting a hat on each one, i decided to build something to orchestrate power and serial console like we talked about before
2019-12-25T02:51:10 < MerryCybertruck> and then karlp mentioned cp2108, so that's what i went with. was a good choice.
2019-12-25T02:51:21 < zyp> ah, right
2019-12-25T02:51:37 < MerryCybertruck> zyp: https://logbook.pw/cp2108_gpio.mp4
2019-12-25T02:51:38 < zyp> so where does emmc encryption come into the picture?
2019-12-25T02:51:46 < MerryCybertruck> here's the result of that convo
2019-12-25T02:52:21 < MerryCybertruck> so each SBC has emmc for the OS
2019-12-25T02:52:36 < MerryCybertruck> but i want it to be headless
2019-12-25T02:53:24 < MerryCybertruck> so i'm thinking about modding the uboot on one of them to talk to a pcb that i can just plug into the master SBC's "Pi bus" (the pine boards have an identical pinout to rpi's header)
2019-12-25T02:54:15 < zyp> so you put an encryption key on a stm32, then what?
2019-12-25T02:54:34 < MerryCybertruck> actuall ynot uboot
2019-12-25T02:54:46 < MerryCybertruck> it would be initramfs probably
2019-12-25T02:55:11 < MerryCybertruck> so the initramfs loads from an unencrypted partition, with root partition encrypted, prompts for passphrase
2019-12-25T02:55:30 < zyp> yeah?
2019-12-25T02:55:54 < MerryCybertruck> what i want to do is throw something into initramfs that sends a signed token
2019-12-25T02:56:06 < MerryCybertruck> so the board would need it's own rtc probably
2019-12-25T02:56:15 < MerryCybertruck> to prevent replays
2019-12-25T02:56:36 < MerryCybertruck> if it gets the valid mumbo jumbo from initramfs, it just spits the luks passphrase out over serial
2019-12-25T02:57:30 < zyp> and what is this protecting against?
2019-12-25T02:57:40 < MerryCybertruck> nothing
2019-12-25T02:58:06 < MerryCybertruck> actually i'll literally not even bother with the fancy shit
2019-12-25T02:58:21 < MerryCybertruck> i'll just have it sniff serial for the "enter luks stuff plz: " and spit the passphrase
2019-12-25T02:58:36 < MerryCybertruck> there's no practical reason for any of this zyp
2019-12-25T02:58:58 < zyp> then why bother?
2019-12-25T02:59:00 < Cracki> problem oriented practical learning
2019-12-25T02:59:11 < MerryCybertruck> because i need to spend my neetbux on something
2019-12-25T02:59:36 < MerryCybertruck> and it might as well be a big ass cluster i can do cool stuff with, learn shit, and donate it to projects that want to compile stuff fast
2019-12-25T03:00:08 < zyp> I just don't see why you'd encrypt the root partition in the first place
2019-12-25T03:00:30 < MerryCybertruck> adds more coolness factor
2019-12-25T03:00:47 < Cracki> standing a raspi upright adds coolness factor: better air convection :>
2019-12-25T03:01:04 < MerryCybertruck> Cracki: yea i can't believe by how much it's cooler too
2019-12-25T03:01:07 < MerryCybertruck> that's ridiculous
2019-12-25T03:01:20 < Cracki> fiziks
2019-12-25T03:01:27 < MerryCybertruck> only took them like a year now to get it cooled down almost to rpi3 temps
2019-12-25T03:01:36 < Cracki> ¯\_(ツ)_/¯ good enough
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2019-12-25T03:01:58 < MerryCybertruck> i'm laughing because this rock64 is spec'd similarly to a rpi4 and has been compiling kernels all day
2019-12-25T03:02:02 < MerryCybertruck> it's barely warm
2019-12-25T03:02:21 < Cracki> are you planning separate control of each node, like cutting power, erasing and rewriting whatever local storage to known good system image?
2019-12-25T03:02:37 < MerryCybertruck> yep
2019-12-25T03:02:40 < Cracki> rock64, are those boards a little more spacious?
2019-12-25T03:02:43 < MerryCybertruck> the uboots can "pxe"
2019-12-25T03:02:59 < MerryCybertruck> rock64 is almost identical form factor as rpi
2019-12-25T03:03:03 < Cracki> hm, same form factor
2019-12-25T03:03:03 < MerryCybertruck> the rockpro64 is the bigger one
2019-12-25T03:03:28 < Cracki> brb comparing specs
2019-12-25T03:03:29 < MerryCybertruck> i'm using rockpro64 as my master server because it has pcie
2019-12-25T03:03:38 < MerryCybertruck> bought the NAS case
2019-12-25T03:04:03 < MerryCybertruck> so it can serve up NFS to all the rock64's for whatever storage they need beyond their local emmc
2019-12-25T03:04:31 < Cracki> rk3399 even has more cores and higher clocked cores
2019-12-25T03:04:35 < MerryCybertruck> yep
2019-12-25T03:04:43 < Cracki> ok, compared to rpi3b
2019-12-25T03:04:49 < MerryCybertruck> i wish it had 8GB so i could do zfs
2019-12-25T03:04:54 < MerryCybertruck> 4GB is kind of pushing it.
2019-12-25T03:04:55 < Cracki> eeh
2019-12-25T03:05:02 < MerryCybertruck> so i'm sticking with ext4 probably
2019-12-25T03:05:10 < Cracki> can you heatgun different ram modules onto it?
2019-12-25T03:05:20 < Cracki> chips*
2019-12-25T03:05:27 < MerryCybertruck> quite possibly
2019-12-25T03:05:46 < Thorn> where do I find the same material but without the $2290 price tag https://www.aticourses.com/training_classes/software-defined-radio-signal-processing/
2019-12-25T03:05:59 < MerryCybertruck> been waiting to see if anyone does it successfully on the pinebook pro - since it's the same as a rockpro64 p much
2019-12-25T03:06:32 < Cracki> dark net perhaps
2019-12-25T03:06:53 < Cracki> looks basically like a college course
2019-12-25T03:07:01 < Cracki> let's say technical institute course
2019-12-25T03:08:57 < Thorn> https://www.analog.com/media/en/training-seminars/design-handbooks/Software-Defined-Radio-for-Engineers-2018/SDR4Engineers.pdf
2019-12-25T03:09:22 < Thorn> most likely not as deep as that course
2019-12-25T03:09:42 < Cracki> aha! rock64: A53 x4 @ 1.5 ghz, rpi4: A72 x4 @ 1.5 ghz https://www.hackerboards.com/compare/192,259,358/
2019-12-25T03:10:00 < Cracki> most likely sales event for their chips
2019-12-25T03:10:28 < Cracki> skimming, looks solid
2019-12-25T03:12:20 < Thorn> https://www.desktopsdr.com/download-files
2019-12-25T03:12:20 < MerryCybertruck> that comparison doesn't mention emmc
2019-12-25T03:12:47 < Cracki> one one of them seems to have "internal memory"
2019-12-25T03:12:51 < MerryCybertruck> yes
2019-12-25T03:12:56 < MerryCybertruck> rock64 has an onboard spi flash
2019-12-25T03:12:59 < MerryCybertruck> you can boot off of it
2019-12-25T03:13:28 < MerryCybertruck> or boot emmc. or microsd. or whatever the uboot netboot shit is
2019-12-25T03:13:29 < Cracki> I would have preferred that to an sd card in my little side project because it's easier for someone to just pull that out and image it
2019-12-25T03:14:46 < MerryCybertruck> ah... so apparently the docs say this: Storage Memory: ROCK64 boards have 128Mb built-in SPI Flash memory but not yet in use, currently use bootable microSD Cards or bootable attachable eMMC.
2019-12-25T03:15:16 < MerryCybertruck> i have no idea what "not yet in use" means
2019-12-25T03:17:34 < Cracki> if it's lacking sw support, at least the hardware must be capable
2019-12-25T03:17:56 < MerryCybertruck> yea i looked at the schematic just now
2019-12-25T03:18:09 < MerryCybertruck> it's there
2019-12-25T03:18:21 < MerryCybertruck> i have the thing booted up right now. installing flashrom
2019-12-25T03:19:00 < Cracki> how to tell soc what to boot from? does it probe things in order or is that like BOOT0/1?
2019-12-25T03:19:38 < MerryCybertruck> haven't read up on it. it autodetects though
2019-12-25T03:20:00 < MerryCybertruck> i installed to sd card and booted, then installed to emmc, removed sd card, booted off emmc
2019-12-25T03:20:34 < Cracki> good good
2019-12-25T03:21:05 < Cracki> this has mention of spi boot http://opensource.rock-chips.com/wiki_Boot_option
2019-12-25T03:21:47 < Cracki> spi flash just contains some bootloader then
2019-12-25T03:22:46 < Cracki> this mentions rk3399 and spi too https://docs.khadas.com/edge/BootFromSpiFlash.html
2019-12-25T03:23:25 < Cracki> fresh code 4 days old https://patchwork.kernel.org/patch/11306845/
2019-12-25T03:24:54 < MerryCybertruck> heh yea
2019-12-25T03:25:04 < MerryCybertruck> that cp2108 (not rock64 related) patch is pretty fresh too
2019-12-25T03:25:15 < MerryCybertruck> if you call 6 months fresh. i do lol
2019-12-25T03:27:54 < karlp> zyp: for your highside 5v swithc, whaty baout the the apl3511 family? cheap in china, comes in a 2A version, it's designed as a usb port power controller
2019-12-25T03:31:28 < zyp> looking
2019-12-25T03:31:53 < Thorn> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t9M-gq8HHV0 cable laying ship tour
2019-12-25T03:33:20 < Cracki> entertaining guy
2019-12-25T03:33:42 < zyp> karlp, seems to have the same pinout as the other ones I looked at, so it'll fit
2019-12-25T03:33:53 < karlp> zyp: depending on the hub you pick, and who you can convince to give you docs, you can do all the config via usb hub commands
2019-12-25T03:34:08 < karlp> via parts imply it, but... unobtanium
2019-12-25T03:34:30 < zyp> I picked USB2517
2019-12-25T03:34:52 < zyp> but I decided to drop the hub power switching and put on a MCU to do it instead
2019-12-25T03:35:18 < zyp> gives me more control/flexibility/whatever
2019-12-25T03:35:48 < zyp> that way I can control power to the upstream slot also
2019-12-25T03:36:14 < zyp> and I can set it up as a watchdog that'll reset it too
2019-12-25T03:45:03 < Thorn> what is. the difference between usb2517 and 2514b
2019-12-25T03:45:18 < Thorn> oh, 7 ports
2019-12-25T03:46:48 < karlp> yeah, I know from reading test reports that microchip has lots of hub commands to, but I've never foudn any of them documented
2019-12-25T03:47:15 < karlp> zyp:yeah, I read later that y ou had that mt9700 so you were looking in the same place
2019-12-25T03:47:27 < karlp> dongs has used the apl3511 in something and was very happy, and the price is right.
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2019-12-25T04:37:59 < Thorn> https://twitter.com/thegrabster/status/1208487317658308609
2019-12-25T04:51:01 < Cracki> they did state that starliner picked up the "wrong register" a few times...
2019-12-25T04:52:03 < Cracki> they must be sharing code changes on clay tablets or something
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2019-12-25T06:21:45 < englishman> merry free and open sourcemas and a happy 2020, year of the lunix desktop
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2019-12-25T10:19:41 < dongs> so libusb on windows is busted or something, damn
2019-12-25T10:20:23 < dongs> i got 32 async transfers, queued them up quickly, re-submit teh transfer right after its completed, they always arrive in sequence and correct size.
2019-12-25T10:20:38 < dongs> but at > 50mbit i get weird data corruption i cant figure out
2019-12-25T10:20:55 < dongs> it is related to system load (usb host)
2019-12-25T10:20:59 < dongs> does not happen on the 'sux
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2019-12-25T12:23:03 < Steffanx> Did you read this news a while ago englishman ? Tesla owners locked out because Tesla had server issues. People used their phone to unlock the car
2019-12-25T12:23:23 < Steffanx> And didnt take the keys/fob/whatever the Tesla uses
2019-12-25T12:23:31 < Steffanx> Didnt*
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2019-12-25T13:40:46 < zyp> dongs, fun
2019-12-25T13:45:53 < dongs> yep
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2019-12-25T14:08:13 < zyp> dongs, what's your favorite usb-c socket?
2019-12-25T14:24:37 < dongs> 3.0 or 2.0?
2019-12-25T14:25:11 < zyp> only need the usb2 signals for now
2019-12-25T14:25:17 < dongs> 2.0 with cc/sbu: U262-16XN-4BVC11
2019-12-25T14:26:13 < dongs> full 3.0 : R-S13KG-03
2019-12-25T14:27:31 < zyp> the latter is standard footprint?
2019-12-25T14:27:37 < dongs> yep
2019-12-25T14:27:40 < dongs> clone of someshit
2019-12-25T14:27:50 < dongs> but like, the 'clone' is more available everywhere so
2019-12-25T14:27:55 < zyp> I think I've seen that hybrid pth/smt before
2019-12-25T14:29:09 < dongs> is similar style to minidp
2019-12-25T14:29:11 < dongs> that i use
2019-12-25T14:30:05 < dongs> anyway i emailed chinksthat manufacture it and they actualyl sent me 3d model for it
2019-12-25T14:30:08 < dongs> so..
2019-12-25T14:30:14 < zyp> nice
2019-12-25T14:30:21 < zyp> got a 3d model for the usb2 only one?
2019-12-25T14:30:30 < dongs> same, they emailed. lemme find
2019-12-25T14:31:21 < dongs> timecop.mine.nu/U262-16XN-4BVC11.zip
2019-12-25T14:31:33 < zyp> nice, thanks
2019-12-25T14:31:41 < dongs> lemme know when to delete
2019-12-25T14:31:48 < zyp> downloaded
2019-12-25T14:32:16 < dongs> i used the fullsize one to make about 10k portable chargers before i discovered the reduced one with only cc/sbu
2019-12-25T14:32:32 < dongs> there's even more reduced version with 9? or someshit pins but its missing either USB or CC
2019-12-25T14:32:41 < dongs> only useful for PD
2019-12-25T14:33:15 < zyp> I'm dicking around with this shit now: https://bin.jvnv.net/file/H7vcx.png
2019-12-25T14:33:34 < dongs> nice.
2019-12-25T14:33:41 < dongs> next step: shitberrypi compute module into everyt socket
2019-12-25T14:34:00 < dongs> is that sot23-5 a USB disconnect switch
2019-12-25T14:34:04 < zyp> yeah
2019-12-25T14:34:06 < zyp> no
2019-12-25T14:34:08 < zyp> power
2019-12-25T14:34:55 < zyp> I assume you've still got those l052 qfp64, so I'm planning to throw one of those on the board also to manage power switches and shit
2019-12-25T14:36:22 < zyp> just wondering if I should waste time trying to make this shit fit in 2L, or go easy mode and do it in 4L
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2019-12-25T14:51:16 < Steffanx> 4 layer it is then :P
2019-12-25T14:53:31 < dongs> yah got
2019-12-25T15:11:01 < englishman> Steffanx: sounds like user error, because the phone is how the car is unlocked normally
2019-12-25T15:11:46 < englishman> also the shit works where there is no cell service like you'd think it would
2019-12-25T15:14:31 < Steffanx> https://thenextweb.com/cars/2019/09/03/tesla-owners-reportedly-got-locked-out-of-their-cars-because-the-app-was-down/
2019-12-25T15:17:08 < zyp> dongs, what was the price difference between 2L and 4L protos again?
2019-12-25T15:17:38 < dongs> fair bit, but depends if you can ride on someone elses troll or not
2019-12-25T15:17:54 < zyp> got any 4L coming up?
2019-12-25T15:17:57 < dongs> ive been doing some 24h 4L turn arounds for dumb projcets and they're kinda expensive lol
2019-12-25T15:18:03 < dongs> your borad is huge right?
2019-12-25T15:18:11 < dongs> like 8x pcie x1 backplane?
2019-12-25T15:18:13 < zyp> probably like 140x60 or some shit?
2019-12-25T15:18:18 < Thorn> zyp: are you going to have any SDR cards in your project?
2019-12-25T15:18:22 < dongs> is that the backplane or the plug-in card?
2019-12-25T15:18:27 < zyp> backplane
2019-12-25T15:19:20 < zyp> 7 slots at 20mm should be 140mm, idk about the width yet but the sockets are 25mm and there's not that much of stuff going on it
2019-12-25T15:21:55 < zyp> hmm
2019-12-25T15:23:21 < zyp> I guess if I have multiple 4L protos, I guess they could all go together for about same price as a single one as long as they fit on a panel?
2019-12-25T15:23:29 < dongs> yeah
2019-12-25T15:23:49 < zyp> how much area do I have available on a panel?
2019-12-25T15:23:56 < dongs> and OSP is pertty cheap vs enig
2019-12-25T15:24:25 < zyp> how would OSP work out for the edge contacts of plug in cards?
2019-12-25T15:24:32 < dongs> bad
2019-12-25T15:24:33 < dongs> so yeah
2019-12-25T15:24:50 < karlp> fwiw, I got some "non special treatment" plain cheap boards to try out just how bad,
2019-12-25T15:24:51 < karlp> and it's fine.
2019-12-25T15:25:03 < dongs> you mean without gold finger?
2019-12-25T15:25:05 < dongs> yeah thats totally fine
2019-12-25T15:25:06 < karlp> you (almost defintiely) lose reliablity on lots of insertions, but seems just fine
2019-12-25T15:25:15 < zyp> but I mean, 2L ENIG isn't that expensive, so does it matter that much for 4L?
2019-12-25T15:25:17 < karlp> yeah, no gold fingers, just regular pads.
2019-12-25T15:25:25 < dongs> but you do want enig for edge connectors
2019-12-25T15:25:26 < dongs> vs fucking hasl
2019-12-25T15:25:33 < dongs> and OSP will oxidize eventually so thats fail too
2019-12-25T15:25:59 < karlp> I think I got lead free hasl, seems to be just fine?
2019-12-25T15:26:05 < dongs> for plugging in?
2019-12-25T15:26:10 < dongs> it makes the board thicker and shit
2019-12-25T15:26:10 < karlp> yeah.
2019-12-25T15:26:15 < dongs> and disgusting
2019-12-25T15:26:30 < karlp> well, goal was to test whether it was going to matter much.
2019-12-25T15:26:42 < karlp> haven't exactly done any sort of long term reliability testing of courtse :)
2019-12-25T15:26:50 < karlp> didn't get chamfered edges either
2019-12-25T15:26:53 < karlp> still plugs in just fine
2019-12-25T15:27:10 < zyp> karlp, how's your hub project going?
2019-12-25T15:27:12 < karlp> I'm sure it's "wrong"
2019-12-25T15:27:28 < karlp> been busy on holidays. so ... the window is still open at least?
2019-12-25T15:27:33 < karlp> hasnt' been closed.
2019-12-25T15:27:42 < karlp> still think it should be "easy" and "just do it"
2019-12-25T15:28:08 < karlp> currently trying to merge a few locm3 things for christmas. then it's more dinner family stuff
2019-12-25T15:31:02 < karlp> have some fucking christmas lights here taht only work with alkalines.
2019-12-25T15:31:09 < karlp> don't even light up on rechargeables
2019-12-25T15:31:17 < karlp> garbage design.
2019-12-25T15:31:30 < zyp> heh
2019-12-25T15:31:51 < zyp> I don't bother with battery powered christmas lights
2019-12-25T15:32:23 < dongs> USB-C powered xmas lights or fuck off
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2019-12-25T15:32:28 < dongs> its 2019 Q4 after all
2019-12-25T15:32:40 < dongs> USB-C PD so you can have 100W of leds flashing
2019-12-25T15:32:43 < dongs> y/y/y
2019-12-25T15:33:37 < specing> its 2019 stop with this religious insanity
2019-12-25T15:34:53 -!- ChanServ changed the topic of ##stm32 to: STM32 | This channel is publicly logged ( http://xob.kapsi.fi/~jpa/stm32/ ) | IRC wisdom: https://github.com/karlp/zypsnips | Don't ask to ask | http://essentialscrap.com/tips/stm32prices/ | And cats | Channel rules: https://physics.nist.gov/cuu/Units/checklist.html | 🎅
2019-12-25T15:35:11 < dongs> what cahnged
2019-12-25T15:35:14 < dongs> need a topic change diff
2019-12-25T15:35:54 < karlp> yeah, not a fan of battery powered ones, certainly aren't goign to put alkalines in for them.
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2019-12-25T15:36:16 < karlp> thhey were some ones I grabbed when we were clearing out the office, but they can go back to the dumpster I think.
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2019-12-25T15:36:26 < dongs> https://github.com/karlp/zypsnips/commit/aa433bda60a3c5432c247e3c78d0776a9b7f1bdc haha
2019-12-25T15:38:14 < Steffanx> poor Mangy_Dog
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2019-12-25T15:40:10 < zyp> I thought the eye could see up to like 770 THz
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2019-12-25T16:29:39 < Steffanx> How does ST come up with those 10k unit prices in the cube? For some random F4 the prices on lcsc for just 10 are even lower than ST's 10K prices.
2019-12-25T16:32:45 < englishman> Steffanx: all the stuff in the app is extra stuff like checking battery level and summon
2019-12-25T16:34:59 < englishman> they probably poll digijew
2019-12-25T16:35:09 < englishman> like altidumb does
2019-12-25T16:35:17 < englishman> digijew is the source of all knowledge
2019-12-25T16:36:06 < Steffanx> lcsc prices are unfair anyway. i assume you still have to pay import costs and stuff. As a company.
2019-12-25T16:37:50 < englishman> like tax? luckily there's no sales tax on business inputs
2019-12-25T16:37:57 < englishman> like in EU I'd assume
2019-12-25T16:38:26 < englishman> same with digijew and any legit company
2019-12-25T16:45:19 < Steffanx> should use arrow.
2019-12-25T16:45:56 < englishman> YES
2019-12-25T16:46:13 < englishman> so instead of 1 invoice you have 7
2019-12-25T16:54:24 < Steffanx> i never cared about the invoices. but 7 packages it too much.
2019-12-25T16:56:44 < englishman> overpackaged packages too
2019-12-25T16:57:05 < englishman> takes longer to unwrap than it does to assemble
2019-12-25T16:57:21 < englishman> what did you get for Christmas Steffanx
2019-12-25T17:00:13 < Steffanx> fuck xmas presents
2019-12-25T17:00:20 < Steffanx> commercial bullshit
2019-12-25T17:00:51 < Steffanx> Didnt we just have thanksgiving?
2019-12-25T17:00:53 < Steffanx> oh shit we dont.
2019-12-25T17:00:58 < MerryCybertruck> here comes santa clause here comes santa clause shop on amazon prime. get your presnts obey consume marry and reproduce trust authority
2019-12-25T17:01:02 < Steffanx> or did we. That shit is also moving to dutchland
2019-12-25T17:02:09 < Steffanx> did you get something special englishman?
2019-12-25T17:03:15 < Steffanx> New app for the tesla?
2019-12-25T17:03:34 < englishman> yes, starjew valley
2019-12-25T17:03:40 < englishman> and an app to make music
2019-12-25T17:03:45 < englishman> called TRAX
2019-12-25T17:04:17 < englishman> also a cool board game but that has nothing to do with the car
2019-12-25T17:07:10 < Steffanx> Apps for you car. isnt it a joke
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2019-12-25T17:33:19 < englishman> how so
2019-12-25T17:33:41 < englishman> why don't other cars have such features
2019-12-25T17:33:58 < Steffanx> my car has android. it has apps as well. And games.
2019-12-25T17:34:42 < Steffanx> but no apps that require my full attention.
2019-12-25T17:35:12 < Steffanx> lol. I meant: no games. lol.
2019-12-25T17:35:29 < zyp> dongs, what's your opinion of jlcpcb?
2019-12-25T17:35:48 < dongs> its all same chink shit, no? im sure your protos there are gonna be like $5 for 5
2019-12-25T17:36:16 < dongs> i do have chinagirl get chink shti for stuff I really dont care about
2019-12-25T17:36:18 < zyp> idk, I've just heard the name, dunno what people say about it
2019-12-25T17:36:24 < dongs> and i used allpcb for production of shit I dont care about
2019-12-25T17:36:24 < qyx> are there 4L protos avialable?
2019-12-25T17:36:30 < dongs> but shit i care about i still run locally
2019-12-25T17:36:30 < qyx> dongs-protos?
2019-12-25T17:36:31 < dongs> eyah sure?
2019-12-25T17:36:39 < qyx> or should I gtfo
2019-12-25T17:36:47 < dongs> qyx, you prolly can't afford
2019-12-25T17:36:52 < qyx> :(
2019-12-25T17:36:54 < qyx> k
2019-12-25T17:37:27 < zyp> I'm playing around with jlcpcb calc, it's like $50 for 5, of which $45 is NRE
2019-12-25T17:37:32 < zyp> 4L ENIG
2019-12-25T17:37:40 < dongs> yeah soudns about right
2019-12-25T17:37:43 < dongs> can't beat chinks
2019-12-25T17:37:48 < dongs> allpcb should be similar
2019-12-25T17:37:56 < qyx> 4L seed was about the same
2019-12-25T17:38:21 < zyp> apparently they can do gold fingers with chamfered edges too, doesn't seem to affect quote
2019-12-25T17:41:03 < zyp> doesn't seem like they actually do any gold plating though, just ENIG
2019-12-25T17:41:32 < dongs> chink enig is thin as fuck
2019-12-25T17:41:43 < dongs> it looks weird
2019-12-25T17:41:45 < zyp> I mean, judging by this: https://jlcpcb.com/quote/pcbOrderFaq/Gold%20Fingers
2019-12-25T17:41:55 < zyp> «Basically, only when ENIG is chosen, then the fingers for your PCB will be with gold, if you can HASL as surface treatment, then it will be covered with tin.»
2019-12-25T17:42:24 < zyp> no wonder it doesn't cost extra if they don't do anything extra
2019-12-25T17:42:33 < qyx> isnt some cjemical available to do gold plating?
2019-12-25T17:42:40 < dongs> lul so wait
2019-12-25T17:42:41 < dongs> tehy just
2019-12-25T17:42:45 < dongs> don't do ANYTHIGN with the edge?
2019-12-25T17:42:48 < dongs> jsut leave bare copper?
2019-12-25T17:42:52 < dongs> and tin the rest of the shit?
2019-12-25T17:42:53 < dongs> p r o
2019-12-25T17:43:25 < zyp> no, the way I read it the fingers just gets the same surface treatment as the rest of the board
2019-12-25T17:43:44 < zyp> i.e. ENIG, not actual plating rated for mechanical connection
2019-12-25T17:43:54 < zyp> or HASL if you're going cheap :p
2019-12-25T17:44:02 < zyp> and then they can mill a chamfer
2019-12-25T17:44:11 < zyp> but w/e
2019-12-25T17:44:13 < zyp> hmm
2019-12-25T17:45:41 < qyx> it is doabnle on 2L
2019-12-25T17:45:53 < qyx> and I'll ise hasl or enig for protos
2019-12-25T17:45:55 < zyp> I did some more work on the design, it still seems doable on 2L, but if I'm gonna run the usb lines as proper 90 ohm, they're gonna be super thick
2019-12-25T17:46:18 < Steffanx> Jlcpcb is fine. Afaik many in here used it
2019-12-25T17:46:22 < zyp> so that's another reason to just go with 4L
2019-12-25T17:46:29 < Steffanx> My 4 layer pcb was fine as well
2019-12-25T18:08:36 < englishman> I know you didn't ask me but they are fine. same as all other chink crap
2019-12-25T18:08:44 < englishman> maybe a little cheaper
2019-12-25T18:08:59 < englishman> they fired that tranny blogger
2019-12-25T18:09:12 < englishman> cuz he went to prison for tweeting anti china shit
2019-12-25T18:09:47 < englishman> can you imagine working in a forced labour camp with tits as big as a car
2019-12-25T18:11:19 < dongs> lmao
2019-12-25T18:11:35 < dongs> i fucking love you
2019-12-25T18:12:13 < dongs> unfortunately the fucking tranny is still making retarded vids
2019-12-25T18:15:37 < aandrew> Merry Christmas y’all
2019-12-25T18:16:31 < aandrew> Lol englishman
2019-12-25T18:23:35 < zyp> is there any convention for which mechanical layers are what in Altium? when I'm making a symbol for the card edge fingers, which layer should I put the guide lines for the actual board edge on?
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2019-12-25T18:25:38 < bitmask> merry christmas
2019-12-25T18:25:41 < zyp> hmm
2019-12-25T18:25:41 < aandrew> Zyp: no, and it’s ridiculous.
2019-12-25T18:26:03 < aandrew> zyp: basically you create a convention and stick with it. It’s a royal pain in the ass for that reason
2019-12-25T18:26:16 < dongs> yep, no convention
2019-12-25T18:26:19 < zyp> dongs, IIRC you use keepout layer for board edge?
2019-12-25T18:26:23 < dongs> i generally use layer 1/13 for that stuff
2019-12-25T18:26:27 < dongs> for mechanical notes
2019-12-25T18:26:30 < dongs> zyp, hm?
2019-12-25T18:26:31 < aandrew> Because your footprints act funny in other designs and you cant use others without screwing with them
2019-12-25T18:26:34 < dongs> board outline is keepout yes
2019-12-25T18:26:40 < dongs> which is the GKO that goes to chinafab
2019-12-25T18:26:48 < zyp> hmm
2019-12-25T18:26:56 < dongs> but any sorta mecnanical notes like "this is pcb edge on a connector that sticks out" can go anywhere
2019-12-25T18:26:59 < bitmask> well arent you guys festive
2019-12-25T18:27:01 < zyp> true
2019-12-25T18:27:02 < zyp> hmm
2019-12-25T18:27:27 < zyp> I'll put shit in M15 then, it's green and enabled by default, and I'm not using green for anything anywhere else
2019-12-25T18:30:37 < dongs> M3 is also green.
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2019-12-25T19:36:53 < zyp> https://bin.jvnv.net/file/HlPDG.png
2019-12-25T19:39:40 < zyp> interposer board to tap signals between card and backplane
2019-12-25T19:40:48 < zyp> I wonder how well it'll work to tap the usb signals here and hook the usb analyzer up with a single cable rather than passing the signal through the usb analyzer
2019-12-25T20:07:15 < h4x0riz3d> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CN1zsk8gf-0
2019-12-25T20:07:35 < Steffanx> Assuming it just taps the signal as well, why wouldnt it work zyp?
2019-12-25T20:11:07 < zyp> signal integrity once I have a stub causing weird reflections
2019-12-25T20:17:34 < Steffanx> mine also does current measuring, not sure if it would like a tap like that. ;)
2019-12-25T20:21:20 < Steffanx> how much worse 2 usb cables with headers would be?
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2019-12-25T20:27:19 < zyp> current measuring doesn't matter, it'd just always measure 0, which is a perfectly valid value for a self powered device
2019-12-25T20:27:28 < zyp> it'd still tap the voltage
2019-12-25T20:28:18 < Steffanx> for now it seemed a useless feature anyway. The tool in the command center was pretty limited
2019-12-25T20:37:30 < h4x0riz3d> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JkORjCt2VhQ
2019-12-25T20:37:50 < Steffanx> will you post some jm jarre next?
2019-12-25T20:38:00 < h4x0riz3d> no
2019-12-25T20:38:18 < Steffanx> booo, you're fired.
2019-12-25T20:38:37 < h4x0riz3d> shadap and listen
2019-12-25T20:41:29 < Steffanx> anyway zyp
2019-12-25T20:41:40 < Steffanx> im curious if it works well or are you not going to do it?
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2019-12-25T20:59:46 < h4x0riz3d> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jsmrgME2f8A
2019-12-25T21:19:07 < zyp> Steffanx, I'm planning to try, worst case it won't work as a tap, but it'd still work as an adapter with only one of the sides connected
2019-12-25T21:19:35 < zyp> so if I need to feed signal through analyzer I can use two of those with the analyzer between
2019-12-25T21:20:42 < Steffanx> Hah :)
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2019-12-25T21:26:16 < aandrew> zyp: I'm quite sure you can find boards like that on ali for $1
2019-12-25T21:45:32 < zyp> pcie extension boards? sure, but that's not what this is
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2019-12-25T22:26:05 < karlp> he's joined the ##stm32 cult of reusing pciex connectors for pluggable boards that have nothing to do with pciex
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2019-12-25T22:33:23 < h4x0riz3d> sinner
2019-12-25T22:34:40 < karlp> you made a typo in winner.
2019-12-25T22:34:49 < karlp> w is forwards, s is backwards remember.
2019-12-25T22:35:30 < h4x0riz3d> is that a WASD joke?
2019-12-25T22:41:49 < Steffanx> i bet h4x0riz3d has one of those weird keyboard layouts
2019-12-25T22:42:19 < h4x0riz3d> like wut?
2019-12-25T22:42:38 < Steffanx> Your a is a 4, o a 0. i mean. WEIRD.
2019-12-25T22:42:50 < h4x0riz3d> ur wrong then
2019-12-25T22:43:09 < Steffanx> 🎅
2019-12-25T22:43:23 < h4x0riz3d> my eggzact layout can even be found on wikipedia, and i didn't put it there myself ;P~
2019-12-25T22:43:34 < Steffanx> and which one is that?
2019-12-25T22:43:54 < h4x0riz3d> surprisingly, it is BG standard layout
2019-12-25T22:45:16 < h4x0riz3d> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Keyboard_layout#Bulgarian
2019-12-25T22:45:43 < Steffanx> ah only weird looking W and capital a.
2019-12-25T22:46:03 < h4x0riz3d> eh?
2019-12-25T22:46:45 < h4x0riz3d> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Magic_SysRq_key
2019-12-25T22:46:57 < Steffanx> the two between the mirror N and C
2019-12-25T22:46:58 < h4x0riz3d> here it is again, to my surprise
2019-12-25T22:48:36 < h4x0riz3d> https://i.imgur.com/mmNuKfv.jpg
2019-12-25T22:51:35 < Steffanx> aha
2019-12-25T22:51:49 < h4x0riz3d> https://i.imgur.com/r2RfM.jpg
2019-12-25T22:53:17 < Steffanx> jly would like your left screen
2019-12-25T22:53:30 < h4x0riz3d> where's he?
2019-12-25T22:54:43 < Steffanx> asleep i think
2019-12-25T22:55:46 < qyx> pciex-cult hah
2019-12-25T22:57:09 < h4x0riz3d> https://i.imgur.com/XsF91.jpg ;P~
2019-12-25T22:57:13 < h4x0riz3d> old pics
2019-12-25T23:02:17 < h4x0riz3d> https://i.imgur.com/Zjw4o.jpg
2019-12-25T23:02:35 < h4x0riz3d> Horatio could recover the keyboard from this pic i'm sure
2019-12-25T23:03:56 < qyx> horatio, the florida maff?
2019-12-25T23:04:10 < h4x0riz3d> CSI Miami
2019-12-25T23:04:13 < qyx> mhm, was he from florida even
2019-12-25T23:04:24 < qyx> oh miami, close enough
2019-12-25T23:10:28 < qyx> https://www.mouser.sk/ProductDetail/Analog-Devices/ADPD2140BCPZN-R7?qs=sGAEpiMZZMtWNtIk7yMEsZQSjt2jgOZwu3qPgX8LTc6vRFCulLzGzg==
2019-12-25T23:10:49 < qyx> I am curious how this thing detects angle of incidence
2019-12-25T23:11:04 < qyx> outputting a photocurrent ratio
2019-12-25T23:11:26 < qyx> obviously it has 2 diodes for X and 2 for Y
2019-12-25T23:11:48 < qyx> but are they at different angles or what
2019-12-25T23:13:02 < qyx> if their surface would be on a single plane this arrangement would not generate any ratio
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2019-12-25T23:59:43 < Thorn> how do I SDR
--- Day changed Thu Dec 26 2019
2019-12-26T00:03:47 < BrainDamage> learn signal processing, sdr is just a special case
2019-12-26T00:08:51 < Thorn> I've learned basic signal theory, it didn't include CIC, matched filters, AFC, AGC, digital demodulation, etc.
2019-12-26T00:10:23 < qyx> so you are asking for the software part
2019-12-26T00:10:32 < BrainDamage> with the exception of CIC, it was all part of the courses here
2019-12-26T00:10:33 < qyx> did you check the IC?
2019-12-26T00:11:27 < Thorn> sx1257? looks pretty cool, about to order 10 pcs
2019-12-26T00:11:53 < qyx> nice, report back when you try them :p
2019-12-26T00:12:06 < qyx> I am about to use them too
2019-12-26T00:12:40 < Thorn> I need to figure out the digital part. an fpga or stm32h7 or whatever
2019-12-26T00:13:02 < Thorn> no idea how to estimate how much computing power I need
2019-12-26T00:13:28 < qyx> G4 has some nice features regarding this
2019-12-26T00:13:38 < qyx> cordic, filter accelerator
2019-12-26T00:18:11 < BrainDamage> qyx: if you use a beam splitter, you can use the phase difference to make interference in the photodiodes
2019-12-26T00:18:24 < BrainDamage> and thus get the angle
2019-12-26T00:19:00 < qyx> yeah but this is a low cost decice which only requires a led or vcsel laser
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2019-12-26T00:20:15 < qyx> if you illuminate it with an IR LED from an angle, it directly generates a ratio of photocurrents
2019-12-26T00:20:15 < BrainDamage> a beam splitter is just a piece of glass
2019-12-26T00:20:47 < qyx> I mean, they say how to use it
2019-12-26T00:20:52 < qyx> nothing needed
2019-12-26T00:21:03 < BrainDamage> I meant it's inside the package
2019-12-26T00:21:05 < BrainDamage> not outside
2019-12-26T00:21:11 < qyx> oh
2019-12-26T00:21:36 < qyx> interesting
2019-12-26T00:21:44 < qyx> now with that knowledge
2019-12-26T00:22:05 < qyx> would it bne possible to measure laser beam divergence with it?
2019-12-26T00:22:38 < BrainDamage> depends how's the thing structured inside, in principle you can just use two normal photodiodes
2019-12-26T00:22:43 < BrainDamage> and measure the relative ratio
2019-12-26T00:22:57 < BrainDamage> without interference and other tricks
2019-12-26T00:23:55 < BrainDamage> you need to put yourself past the rayleight length https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gaussian_beam#/media/File:GaussianBeamWaist.svg
2019-12-26T00:24:09 < BrainDamage> past that, the aperture is linear with length as you can see
2019-12-26T00:24:37 < qyx> https://www.first-sensor.com/cms/upload/productimages/products/quadrant_pin_photodiodes_first_sensor.jpg
2019-12-26T00:24:54 < qyx> I found these things
2019-12-26T00:24:58 < qyx> but $$$
2019-12-26T00:25:47 < BrainDamage> mmm, now that I think about it, yes you can measure directly the divergence with it
2019-12-26T00:26:02 < BrainDamage> if you still place yourself past the rayleight length
2019-12-26T00:26:18 < BrainDamage> because you get directly a vector opposite the intercept point
2019-12-26T00:30:15 < Devastator> this is probably out of nowhere, but if any of you use a touchscreen, which manufacturer do you use with 7" to 10"?
2019-12-26T00:30:51 < qyx> hmm
2019-12-26T00:32:09 < Thorn> https://twitter.com/craig_jbishop/status/1209863633284419584 moneyed westerners
2019-12-26T00:39:20 < Thorn> https://www.aliexpress.com/item/32822764654.html make:r's hi-fi
2019-12-26T00:48:38 < Cracki> I'm missing the open face of excitement
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2019-12-26T00:49:47 < catphish> i want a DSO :(
2019-12-26T00:50:10 < Cracki> it's "only" a rigol
2019-12-26T00:50:30 < catphish> i want a rigol
2019-12-26T00:50:41 < specing> I want a rigol too
2019-12-26T00:50:47 < Cracki> 1k msrp
2019-12-26T00:51:24 < qyx> riglol
2019-12-26T00:51:53 < catphish> a DS1054Z would be just fine
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2019-12-26T00:55:40 < s34n_> I'm trying to detect zero-crossing with a stm32f103 and an opto-isolator. I think I just want to set an interrupt on the pin connected to the opto. Does that make sense?
2019-12-26T00:57:05 < Cracki> dealing with mains voltage, eh?
2019-12-26T00:57:23 < s34n_> yes
2019-12-26T00:57:26 < Cracki> what do you have so far
2019-12-26T00:57:42 < s34n_> too dumb to start safe
2019-12-26T00:58:24 < Cracki> zero crossings on mains have been discussed before. if all else fails, grep the logs (topic)
2019-12-26T00:59:16 < catphish> that MSO5074 is beautiful
2019-12-26T00:59:25 < Cracki> black paint job
2019-12-26T00:59:36 < Cracki> some angular cybertruck aesthetics
2019-12-26T00:59:53 < catphish> maybe someone will buy me one
2019-12-26T01:00:23 < Cracki> 1. get gf 2. christmas 3. ??? 4. PROFIT
2019-12-26T01:00:55 < Thorn> 5. ??? 6. lose everything in a divorce
2019-12-26T01:02:26 < Cracki> fuck prenups. do slave contracts!
2019-12-26T01:02:43 < Cracki> way more romantic according to books women read
2019-12-26T01:06:05 < s34n_> Cracki: I've got the circuit figured out. I run 3.3v through 100K, then to the opto and to pin 9 on the f103. when the opto closes, it all goes to GND. So pin 9 should be able to detect the crossing
2019-12-26T01:06:32 < Cracki> sounds like a plan
2019-12-26T01:06:58 < s34n_> my question is really about how to catch that in the f103
2019-12-26T01:07:07 < Cracki> ah
2019-12-26T01:07:11 < jadew> what did you guys get for Christmas?
2019-12-26T01:07:28 < Cracki> uh well... endless loop and polling, or set up an "exti" interrupt
2019-12-26T01:07:34 < qyx> s34n_: check EXTI in the reference manual
2019-12-26T01:07:47 < qyx> but if you want to do anything reasonable
2019-12-26T01:07:51 < s34n_> I'm thinking I just set an interrupt on pin pb4
2019-12-26T01:07:57 < Cracki> if you use st's hal, there are examples on that
2019-12-26T01:08:01 < qyx> then check input capture in the timers section
2019-12-26T01:08:51 < Cracki> supposing he wants to know when that happens, not just that it happens :>
2019-12-26T01:09:13 < qyx> then timer IC is the way to g
2019-12-26T01:09:20 < s34n_> I'm ok with just that it happens
2019-12-26T01:09:31 < qyx> then whatever works
2019-12-26T01:09:33 < s34n_> so I was looking at exti already
2019-12-26T01:09:45 < qyx> UART with break interrupt :>
2019-12-26T01:09:58 < jadew> s34n_, what's the difficulty?
2019-12-26T01:10:03 < jadew> what are you trying to solve?
2019-12-26T01:10:39 < s34n_> as I understand it, I will get the same interrupt for several different pins
2019-12-26T01:10:55 < s34n_> so then I have to check a register to know which ping caused the interrupt?
2019-12-26T01:11:00 < qyx> yeah
2019-12-26T01:11:04 < s34n_> s/ping/pin/
2019-12-26T01:11:31 < Cracki> you have an interrupt line
2019-12-26T01:11:34 < Cracki> that fires the handler
2019-12-26T01:11:55 < Cracki> if you enable only one pin for that line, you don't need to check
2019-12-26T01:12:51 < Cracki> typically pins 0 of all ports get mapped to one line, pins 1 of all ports, etc... but near the end it's bunched up so you have pins something to 15 of every port mapped to a line
2019-12-26T01:14:26 < Cracki> so enable exti for PB4 and likely that's the only source of interrupts for that line
2019-12-26T01:16:53 < s34n_> Cracki: ah. right. that's what I figured before. I was using some pin above 10 so they were bunched. Now I'm down on 4 so it's probably easier for me
2019-12-26T01:17:41 < Cracki> if that's your only exti, the situation is the same
2019-12-26T01:19:27 < s34n_> Cracki: Are you using "exti" there to mean interrupt generically? or to mean some specific thing for stm32?
2019-12-26T01:19:51 < Cracki> exti stands for external interrupt, i.e. something happening on a pin from "the outside"
2019-12-26T01:20:07 < qyx> but also the peripheral is named EXTI
2019-12-26T01:20:14 < Cracki> other interrupt types would be timer, spi uart i2c, ...
2019-12-26T01:21:02 < Cracki> there's an interrupt controller collecting all the interrupt lines and taking care that their handlers are executed
2019-12-26T01:23:09 < s34n_> I have considered polling everything in a single loop, or putting the zero-crossing on an exti
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2019-12-26T01:23:41 < s34n_> I've been leaning to using exti for the zero crossing
2019-12-26T01:23:57 < bitmask> ahh full speed internet
2019-12-26T01:24:31 < s34n_> but perhaps it would better to do it in a loop where I don't have to worry about concurrency
2019-12-26T01:24:57 < Cracki> what are you gonna do with the zero crossing information anyway
2019-12-26T01:26:15 < s34n_> I'm going to try to shape my power
2019-12-26T01:26:42 < jadew> $2 per PCB is not cheap, is it?
2019-12-26T01:27:04 < jadew> that's before shipping and taxes
2019-12-26T01:27:11 < Cracki> square meter 32 layer pcb?
2019-12-26T01:27:16 < s34n_> jadew: if you are only doing 5 boards, does it matter?
2019-12-26T01:27:42 < jadew> Cracki, 150x40 mm
2019-12-26T01:28:07 < jadew> s34n_, if I can get better quality for the same price, it does
2019-12-26T01:28:12 < Cracki> try jlcpcb cheapest option?
2019-12-26T01:28:24 < Cracki> ah, you want quality! should have said so
2019-12-26T01:28:26 < jadew> jlcpcb is garbage
2019-12-26T01:28:40 < jadew> and they do like.. 10 boards for $2
2019-12-26T01:28:42 < Cracki> well what kinda quality is important to you
2019-12-26T01:28:56 < jadew> I'm willing to pay $2-3 per PCB, but I want better quality
2019-12-26T01:29:04 < Cracki> one might say... quantifiable quality
2019-12-26T01:29:05 < jadew> I want the silkscreen to look good
2019-12-26T01:29:10 < jadew> same with the solder mask
2019-12-26T01:29:16 < s34n_> Cracki: so whenever I cross zero, I will close another opto to give power, then shut off the power according to timing depending on user input
2019-12-26T01:29:39 < Cracki> uh, dimmer?
2019-12-26T01:29:48 < Cracki> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Phase-fired_controller
2019-12-26T01:30:16 < Cracki> you might wanna involve a timer peripheral and feed the exti into it
2019-12-26T01:30:53 < s34n_> Cracki: yes. exactly this
2019-12-26T01:30:59 < Cracki> assuming the input is nice and stable and doesn't glitch or bounce or anything
2019-12-26T01:31:21 < s34n_> hopefully
2019-12-26T01:31:28 < Cracki> might wanna consider an analog lowpass between opto and input pin
2019-12-26T01:31:52 < s34n_> Cracki: I don't know what that means
2019-12-26T01:32:17 < Cracki> but don't take my word, there are people here who have done this and I haven't
2019-12-26T01:32:53 < Cracki> look up what a schmitt trigger is. might give you the right idea.
2019-12-26T01:41:46 < s34n_> Cracki: I think I'm good on the circuit design. I'm just working out how to do the exti
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2019-12-26T01:57:52 < steve> famous last words ;P
2019-12-26T02:01:25 < s34n_> I know
2019-12-26T02:01:42 < s34n_> so having just written that, I just learned something.
2019-12-26T02:04:12 < s34n_> I think the 100K I described earlier is a pull-up resistor? and the pb4 on an f1 can do that internally without the need of the 100K resistor?
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2019-12-26T02:10:55 < Cracki> yes
2019-12-26T02:12:43 < s34n_> so I don't even need that resistor? I could just T the opto, pb4 and vcc? then put pb4 into pullup input mode?
2019-12-26T02:13:06 < Cracki> you don't need vcc either
2019-12-26T02:13:14 < Cracki> the internal pullups already connect to that
2019-12-26T02:13:33 < Cracki> except you need vcc to power the optocoupler
2019-12-26T02:13:37 * s34n_ blinks
2019-12-26T02:14:13 < Cracki> the output side of the optocoupler is a transistor, right?
2019-12-26T02:14:14 < s34n_> shouldn't mains power the opto?
2019-12-26T02:14:26 < Cracki> tie the lower end the ground and the upper end to the controller's pin.
2019-12-26T02:14:36 < s34n_> the opto is an H11AA1
2019-12-26T02:14:40 < Cracki> right
2019-12-26T02:14:54 < Cracki> it's a phototransistor or something, powered by light itself :P
2019-12-26T02:15:39 < Cracki> uh that thing does rectification
2019-12-26T02:16:04 < Cracki> or does it
2019-12-26T02:16:41 < Cracki> that'l, be a narrow pulse when whatever input crosses zero
2019-12-26T02:17:50 < Cracki> figure 1. you have about +- 0.8 volts where it's not conducting
2019-12-26T02:18:26 < Cracki> you said "I could just T". is that tie or tee?
2019-12-26T02:18:42 < s34n_> tee
2019-12-26T02:18:48 < Cracki> what do you want to tee
2019-12-26T02:19:31 < s34n_> I currently tee the opto to pb4 and the 100K+Vcc
2019-12-26T02:20:15 -!- veegee [~veegee@ipagstaticip-3d3f7614-22f3-5b69-be13-7ab4b2c585d9.sdsl.bell.ca] has quit [Quit: veegee]
2019-12-26T02:20:25 < s34n_> It hadn't realized that pb4 could do the 100K+Vcc for me
2019-12-26T02:20:36 < Cracki> 100k to vcc is already in the controller's pin. do not connect vcc to the optocoupler's collector, that'll cause a short
2019-12-26T02:20:39 < s34n_> s/It/I/
2019-12-26T02:20:52 < Cracki> vcc is connected to its collector *through* a resistor
2019-12-26T02:21:47 < Cracki> straight connecting from collector to mcu pin, mcu pin set to use pullup
2019-12-26T02:23:09 < s34n_> hmm
2019-12-26T02:23:21 < Cracki> I think you use a voltage divider between mains and opto input
2019-12-26T02:23:57 < Cracki> no wait, just a series resistor is probably good enough
2019-12-26T02:23:59 < jadew> nobody answered, what did santa get you?
2019-12-26T02:24:12 < Cracki> eh, better leave "high" voltage to people who have experience with that
2019-12-26T02:24:35 < jadew> you're still on the zero crossing thing...
2019-12-26T02:24:40 < Cracki> :>
2019-12-26T02:25:19 < Cracki> santa (I) got myself a raspi with display to fuck around with
2019-12-26T02:27:07 < jadew> nice
2019-12-26T02:27:32 < jadew> I have $50 to spend, trying to decide on some tool
2019-12-26T02:28:59 < s34n_> Cracki: if I leave the "high" voltage to people with experience, I will never grow up to be one of those people.
2019-12-26T02:29:12 < Cracki> electroboom
2019-12-26T02:29:48 < Cracki> oh well, some of what I remember: don't calculate with nominal mains, there are transients that are factors larger than that
2019-12-26T02:29:48 < s34n_> Besides, nothing says Christmas like a little fire
2019-12-26T02:29:59 < jadew> s34n_, when working on high voltage you have to figure out the absolute maximum voltage you might have in there (say as a spike) and you have to design for that
2019-12-26T02:30:11 < Cracki> voltage can jump through air over through-hole resistor bodries
2019-12-26T02:30:12 < Cracki> -r
2019-12-26T02:30:40 < Cracki> and that optocoupler wants a certain current through its inputs, but not more than that
2019-12-26T02:31:21 < Cracki> and to make that happen, series resistance is probably good
2019-12-26T02:31:36 < Cracki> plug it in, see if it trips a breaker :P
2019-12-26T02:32:24 < Cracki> >designed for applications requiring detection or monitoring of AC signals
2019-12-26T02:32:38 < Cracki> I would suspect there's an application circuit for this
2019-12-26T02:33:44 < Cracki> be aware that this thing is designed to detect presence and absence, not zero crossings
2019-12-26T02:35:53 < Cracki> series resistance AND voltage divider might be useful
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2019-12-26T02:59:07 < kakisemipro> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TSffz_bl6zo musiocs
2019-12-26T03:04:56 < Cracki> s34n_, have a circuitjs to play with http://tinyurl.com/wbqt9jo
2019-12-26T03:05:30 < Cracki> the rectifier is just to recreate that opto you have; it does its own rectification already but circuitjs doesn't have such an opto
2019-12-26T03:09:39 < Cracki> inspect the power those resistors have to endure
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2019-12-26T05:40:28 < s34n_> Cracki: I don't know what you mean by "inspect the power" and I don't know how
2019-12-26T05:46:44 < Cracki> point at things
2019-12-26T05:46:52 < Cracki> look bottom right
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2019-12-26T13:36:17 < dongs> have any of you shitlords used that fucking aidsfruit nrf52840 stuff
2019-12-26T13:37:02 < dongs> if so: how does one enter serial bootloader on that shit
2019-12-26T13:37:12 < Thorn> why does it have to be aidsfruit, they have an official DK and some kind of usb stick iirc
2019-12-26T13:38:05 < dongs> cuz offocial shit doesnt work with retarduino
2019-12-26T13:38:10 < dongs> and thats what im being asked about
2019-12-26T13:40:54 < dongs> https://learn.adafruit.com/bluefruit-nrf52-feather-learning-guide/using-the-bootloader i guess its this
2019-12-26T13:40:58 < dongs> fucking cancer
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2019-12-26T14:18:54 < Thorn> >Max W. Hauser, "Principles of Oversampling A/D Conversion," Journal Audio Engineering Society, Vol. 39, No. 1/2, January/February 1991, pp. 3-26.
2019-12-26T14:19:30 < Thorn> where do I pirate this paper, it doesn't seem to be on scihub, and google didn't find it anywhere either
2019-12-26T14:20:10 * h4x0riz3d oversamples Thorn
2019-12-26T14:22:57 < zyp> huh, there's a nrf5340 now
2019-12-26T14:23:00 < zyp> dual cortex-m33
2019-12-26T14:23:30 < BrainDamage> Thorn: I don't know that paper, but if it helps I wrote this when I raeg'd on irc once https://filebin.net/53ts500cxg33xwg8/adc.pdf?t=sgk4jfav
2019-12-26T14:24:20 < Thorn> yeah I think I actually have that saved somwhere
2019-12-26T14:24:34 < h4x0riz3d> such much mathzy x_x
2019-12-26T14:25:05 < Thorn> but that paper deals with sigma-delta specifically, with how they came up with the idea and the concepts behind it
2019-12-26T14:28:02 < BrainDamage> sigma delta does a thing called noise shaping
2019-12-26T14:28:45 < BrainDamage> don't know if you're familiar with control theory, but depending on where you inject the signa/noise in a control loop, you have different transfer functions
2019-12-26T14:29:21 < BrainDamage> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Ideal_feedback_model.svg
2019-12-26T14:29:54 < BrainDamage> you can have the noise be injected along the signal, in the error signal before a, in the output, or in the output of b
2019-12-26T14:30:07 < BrainDamage> the case of an adc, it's injected at the output
2019-12-26T14:30:23 < BrainDamage> the transfer function for that signal is called 'complementary sensitivity'
2019-12-26T14:31:30 < BrainDamage> essentially, they wanted to change the transfer function for the noise to shift the power spectrum from a flat one, to one where most of the power is in high freqs
2019-12-26T14:31:43 < BrainDamage> in order to do that, you need one or more integrators in b
2019-12-26T14:32:06 < BrainDamage> this creates a pole and zero in the complementary sensitivity transer functions
2019-12-26T14:32:17 < BrainDamage> creating a sort of sigmoid shape
2019-12-26T14:32:45 < BrainDamage> here
2019-12-26T14:32:46 < BrainDamage> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Delta-sigma_modulation#/media/File:DeltaSigmaNoise.svg
2019-12-26T14:33:14 < BrainDamage> now, this sigmoid shape goes to the whole bandwith of the system
2019-12-26T14:33:58 < BrainDamage> the integral of those curves is identical to the rectangle at the bottom
2019-12-26T14:34:14 < BrainDamage> while the yellow rectangle represent your input signal
2019-12-26T14:35:08 < BrainDamage> as you can see, the integrated area of the noise is lower compared to flat spectrum over the region of overlap with the input
2019-12-26T14:35:22 < BrainDamage> so you do that, and then you chop off the rest with a sharp digital filter
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2019-12-26T15:11:28 < grevaillot>
2019-12-26T15:18:11 * h4x0riz3d takes BrainDamage's digital filter and cuts some tomatos with it
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2019-12-26T15:23:51 * doomba takes BrainDamage's digital filter and adds some jalapeno peppers to it
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2019-12-26T17:03:43 < Thorn> success http://www2.ece.rochester.edu/courses/ECE472/Site/Assignments/Entries/2009/1/15_Week_1_files/Hauser_1991.pdf
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2019-12-26T17:08:31 < englishman> bluefruit lol
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2019-12-26T17:44:50 < bitmask> mornin'
2019-12-26T17:46:11 < Steffanx> hi mr bitmask
2019-12-26T17:46:27 < bitmask> how was your christmas mr steffan
2019-12-26T17:46:36 < Steffanx> fine
2019-12-26T17:46:56 < Steffanx> Today was the best. I took me fucking HOURS to replace 2 light tiny light bulbs in my car
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2019-12-26T17:47:19 < Thorn> [18:44:50] <bitmask> mornin'
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2019-12-26T17:48:29 < Steffanx> I wonder if they do that on purpose. make some tiny light bulbs that will certainly break a few times impossible to reach
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2019-12-26T17:49:34 < bitmask> anything a regular person can normally do must be made impossible so that everything is done at the dealership to make more monies
2019-12-26T17:49:51 < Steffanx> And it will take me just as much time for sure.
2019-12-26T17:49:54 < Steffanx> *them
2019-12-26T17:52:02 < Steffanx> So hows the xmas there mr bitmask?
2019-12-26T17:52:46 < bitmask> it was nice
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2019-12-26T17:54:16 < Steffanx> today is 2nd xmas day here.
2019-12-26T17:57:33 < bitmask> you celebrate today too?
2019-12-26T17:57:49 < Steffanx> yesh
2019-12-26T17:57:56 < bitmask> cool
2019-12-26T17:58:13 < Steffanx> 2nd xmas day is more like a day of for people the day after xmas
2019-12-26T17:58:39 < Steffanx> nowadays.
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2019-12-26T18:00:34 < bitmask> just curious about your convention, when naming an array do you make it plural with the s on the end?
2019-12-26T18:01:46 < bitmask> tampon[3937] vs tampons[29283]
2019-12-26T18:02:00 < Thorn> most of my arrays are named buf
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2019-12-26T18:02:06 < bitmask> heh
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2019-12-26T18:02:24 < Thorn> or rx_buf, tx_buf etc.
2019-12-26T18:03:34 < bitmask> most != all
2019-12-26T18:04:37 < bitmask> I used to have them without the s but I think it makes it more clear that its an array so I started using it
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2019-12-26T19:26:46 < doomba> rube goldberg cluster luks key designed
2019-12-26T19:26:50 < doomba> using stm32g030
2019-12-26T19:26:59 < doomba> the so8 one
2019-12-26T19:28:20 < doomba> https://i.imgur.com/yqijXZM.png
2019-12-26T19:34:26 -!- jsoft [~jsoft@unaffiliated/jsoft] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds]
2019-12-26T19:39:51 < srk> cute
2019-12-26T19:43:32 < doomba> all this thing will do is plug right into the top 10 pins of a raspi or rock64 gpio header
2019-12-26T19:43:55 < doomba> and look for trigger strings being spit out over its uart console
2019-12-26T19:44:20 < Steffanx> and when it find something?
2019-12-26T19:44:25 < doomba> e.g. "enter passphrase for volume /dev/disk/by-id/crypto-LUKS-nthoaeuntbaeonutbaoeunthaeou: "
2019-12-26T19:44:28 < Steffanx> it it make you a coffee?
2019-12-26T19:44:31 < doomba> and then it spits out the passphrase
2019-12-26T19:44:49 < Steffanx> *will
2019-12-26T19:44:50 < Steffanx> awh
2019-12-26T19:45:14 < BrainDamage> tbh what you're doing there is just adding another failure mode
2019-12-26T19:45:51 < BrainDamage> if the micro fail, the board's data content are to be trashed
2019-12-26T19:46:54 < BrainDamage> I hope at least you'll keep multiple micro backups with the keys
2019-12-26T19:46:59 < doomba> yep
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2019-12-26T20:00:28 < mawk> why doomba ?
2019-12-26T20:00:40 < doomba> mawk: because ASSBURGERS
2019-12-26T20:00:45 < mawk> if the rpi is stolen or hacked then the passphrase too
2019-12-26T20:00:47 < mawk> :(
2019-12-26T20:00:58 < doomba> yes i know
2019-12-26T20:01:03 < doomba> this isn't for added security
2019-12-26T20:01:23 < doomba> it's for circlejerk NEETdom
2019-12-26T20:01:47 < doomba> i'm very busy coding things and building things and developing up a portfolio and taking industry certifications
2019-12-26T20:02:47 < doomba> i'm doing a life social experiment
2019-12-26T20:03:19 < doomba> to prove the existence of the two human races
2019-12-26T20:03:27 < doomba> <- schizo
2019-12-26T20:03:37 < BrainDamage> that's not schizophrenia
2019-12-26T20:06:41 < doomba> delusions maybe i don't know
2019-12-26T20:06:49 < doomba> there are two different species of humans on earth.
2019-12-26T20:07:01 < doomba> i'm setting out to prove they exist
2019-12-26T20:07:08 < Steffanx> Doombas and roombas?
2019-12-26T20:07:15 < doomba> yes
2019-12-26T20:07:27 < doomba> the elysium class aka The Capitol dwellers
2019-12-26T20:07:30 < doomba> and the rest
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2019-12-26T20:10:18 < Steffanx> "industry certifications" ? Which ones mr doomba?
2019-12-26T20:10:28 < doomba> stupid cloud bullshit
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2019-12-26T20:10:56 < doomba> CCSP, AWS solutions architect
2019-12-26T20:11:42 < Steffanx> Ah the clown stuff
2019-12-26T20:12:09 < Steffanx> other peopls computer.
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2019-12-26T20:13:03 < doomba> i'm trying to do more neet stuff than the wagies
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2019-12-26T20:13:25 < Steffanx> Is your oven connected yet?
2019-12-26T20:13:30 < doomba> yes
2019-12-26T20:13:57 < doomba> is the firmware/ui finished? no lol
2019-12-26T20:14:10 < englishman> be sure your oven's CoC is up to date!
2019-12-26T20:14:18 < doomba> yes absolutely.
2019-12-26T20:14:37 < doomba> i want the oven to be very inclusive
2019-12-26T20:20:44 < mawk> a bailiff changed the locks on my sister-in-law door
2019-12-26T20:20:49 < mawk> totally against the law
2019-12-26T20:20:56 < mawk> you cannot expell someone during winter
2019-12-26T20:21:12 < mawk> so, let's change the locks back
2019-12-26T20:21:32 < Steffanx> that must have happened in france.
2019-12-26T20:21:45 < mawk> yes
2019-12-26T20:21:48 < Steffanx> :)
2019-12-26T20:22:02 < mawk> I'm in the bus to NL
2019-12-26T20:22:25 < mawk> after spending Noël in Frankrijk
2019-12-26T20:23:21 < upgrdman> https://i.imgur.com/eaLGnhY.gifv
2019-12-26T20:23:22 < Steffanx> Zhe bus.
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2019-12-26T20:46:32 < mawk> i are in ze bus Steffanx
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2019-12-26T20:49:03 < mawk> a dutch guy told me I spoke very good english
2019-12-26T20:49:08 < mawk> including the accent apparently
2019-12-26T20:49:36 < Steffanx> Dutch dont die compliments..
2019-12-26T20:49:39 < Steffanx> *do
2019-12-26T20:49:42 < Steffanx> lo'l
2019-12-26T20:49:59 < mawk> his name is Reinier he's definitely dutch
2019-12-26T20:50:00 < Steffanx> Damn, my fingers became fat from the xmas dinner
2019-12-26T20:50:11 < mawk> nobody else can have this name
2019-12-26T20:50:20 < mawk> you ate foie gras and homard ?
2019-12-26T20:51:31 < Steffanx> Untrue. There is some brazilian with that name too
2019-12-26T20:51:50 < Steffanx> lol, no. I dont eat that
2019-12-26T20:53:05 < mawk> why :(
2019-12-26T20:53:08 < mawk> are you a vegan
2019-12-26T20:54:08 < Steffanx> no, i just never had " foie gras" and i dont like shelled sea creatures
2019-12-26T20:54:55 < mawk> crustacean
2019-12-26T20:55:20 < mawk> you should try foie gras
2019-12-26T20:55:29 < mawk> I will offer you some when you come to Delft
2019-12-26T20:55:42 < mawk> with some toasted bread, onion and fig chutney and red wine
2019-12-26T20:56:06 < mawk> and Madere wine jelly, obviously
2019-12-26T20:57:52 < Steffanx> hm
2019-12-26T20:58:18 < mawk> and pepper
2019-12-26T20:58:43 < mawk> what about oysters then ?
2019-12-26T20:58:53 < mawk> that's a christmas dish too
2019-12-26T20:59:02 < mawk> you have the sea in NL
2019-12-26T20:59:14 < mawk> why are you not eating more fish
2019-12-26T20:59:24 < Steffanx> We eat herring.
2019-12-26T20:59:29 < mawk> yes only that
2019-12-26T20:59:43 < mawk> gulping harring in the streets
2019-12-26T20:59:47 < mawk> with no chewing
2019-12-26T21:00:00 < BrainDamage> that's obviously a red herring
2019-12-26T21:00:02 < Steffanx> many people in dutchland do the "gourmet" thing with xmas. Where everyone prepares his own meat/fish/whatever.
2019-12-26T21:00:11 < mawk> and lekkerbekje stuff
2019-12-26T21:00:46 < mawk> lol BrainDamage
2019-12-26T21:01:46 < Steffanx> How often did you have escargot?
2019-12-26T21:04:33 < mawk> ten times in my life maybe
2019-12-26T21:04:44 < mawk> it's a bit overrated
2019-12-26T21:04:49 < mawk> without the parsley and butter it's just gum
2019-12-26T21:05:03 < mawk> maybe good snails have a taste in themselves
2019-12-26T21:10:06 < mawk> I never had frog I think, maybe once
2019-12-26T21:10:27 < mawk> miniature chicken
2019-12-26T21:17:48 < Steffanx> so did it ship yet aandrew?
2019-12-26T21:18:27 < BrainDamage> who are you shopping aandrew with?
2019-12-26T21:18:38 < BrainDamage> aandrewxenglishman?
2019-12-26T21:19:06 < Steffanx> aliexpresss
2019-12-26T21:19:31 < Steffanx> The thing he ordered that was obvisouly misprices.
2019-12-26T21:19:38 < Steffanx> d
2019-12-26T21:20:13 < qyx> mawk: close enough https://sk.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rainerova_chata
2019-12-26T21:21:54 < zyp> Steffanx, mine haven't
2019-12-26T21:22:01 < Steffanx> awh
2019-12-26T21:22:06 < Steffanx> oh you are one of the 2 that ordered. hah
2019-12-26T21:22:32 < zyp> order status says «Will be shipped within: 3 days 2 hours 22 minutes»
2019-12-26T21:23:03 < zyp> they still haven't corrected the price though
2019-12-26T21:23:06 < zyp> hmm
2019-12-26T21:23:15 < zyp> looks like there's been three orders
2019-12-26T21:23:25 < Steffanx> oh 3. it was 2
2019-12-26T21:23:32 < zyp> the other variants says «100 Sets available», this one says 97
2019-12-26T21:23:39 < Steffanx> im not going to see im one of the 3 :P
2019-12-26T21:23:42 < Steffanx> *say
2019-12-26T21:23:50 < Steffanx> damnit. i cant type properly anymore.
2019-12-26T21:25:27 < Steffanx> but its obvisouly totally wrong. the price
2019-12-26T21:44:43 < qyx> xmas giveaway?
2019-12-26T21:50:22 < aandrew> well my other ali items have all shipped but that "missing a zero in the price" fiber marker didn't ship yet
2019-12-26T21:50:27 < aandrew> guessing they'll just refund
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2019-12-26T22:34:33 < zyp> aandrew, I'm guessing they'll let it sit until the time expires or something
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2019-12-26T23:21:39 < tcth> > in c, anyone can do anything using pointers
2019-12-26T23:23:19 < BrainDamage> except being memory safe
2019-12-26T23:24:55 < specing> in C we trust
2019-12-26T23:25:08 < Steffanx> How does your ++ deal with it tcth?
2019-12-26T23:25:57 < specing> C++ gives you an even larger arsenal with which to shoot your foot
2019-12-26T23:26:16 < Steffanx> How to get touched by Ada so I can become a true follower?
2019-12-26T23:26:24 < Thorn> arse nal
2019-12-26T23:26:43 < specing> Steffanx: download GPS
2019-12-26T23:26:52 < specing> Steffanx: err, gnat community 2019
2019-12-26T23:27:29 < tcth> did anyone in here ever do something serious with rust?
2019-12-26T23:27:31 < Steffanx> What if i dont "feel" it? Im not a chosen one?
2019-12-26T23:27:57 < Steffanx> Are you serious tcth?
2019-12-26T23:28:06 < tcth> Steffanx, yes
2019-12-26T23:28:24 < tcth> want to hear feedback from somebody who doesn´t just do DIY stuff
2019-12-26T23:28:31 < specing> serious? rust? HAh
2019-12-26T23:28:32 < Thorn> Steffanx: https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLkoa8uxigENkneyEEeDWVPgpMhPc9IJ7o
2019-12-26T23:28:38 < Steffanx> Then you wont get an answer :D
2019-12-26T23:28:53 < zyp> tcth, my friend did this year's advent of code in rust
2019-12-26T23:29:04 < tcth> zyp, did he share any feelings?
2019-12-26T23:29:14 < Steffanx> advent of code => DIY
2019-12-26T23:30:21 < zyp> not so much about rust, but we compared solutions a couple of times
2019-12-26T23:30:49 < zyp> to me it looked like they got some bad inspiration from javascript
2019-12-26T23:31:06 < Steffanx> uh? like what?
2019-12-26T23:32:56 < tcth> zyp, can you elaborate?
2019-12-26T23:33:41 < Thorn> only in ada
2019-12-26T23:34:36 < tcth> Basically I´d like to know how much benefits/advantages that rust provides over C++ for a developer that has good modern C++ skills (excluding library/3rd-part code handling)
2019-12-26T23:37:29 < Thorn> can you do a statically allocated container in rust? last time I checked it had nothing like placement new to construct an object in-place
2019-12-26T23:37:38 < Thorn> or a memory allocator
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--- Day changed Fri Dec 27 2019
2019-12-27T00:05:55 < Cracki> someone says to google "rust fighting borrow checker"
2019-12-27T00:07:27 < Cracki> sounds like bureaucracy
2019-12-27T00:07:41 < Cracki> or assembly, compared to a tool actually helping you
2019-12-27T00:07:46 < Thorn> why use rust then if you have to fight its main feature lol
2019-12-27T00:08:00 < Thorn> there's enough stuff in c++ that you have to fight
2019-12-27T00:08:18 < zyp> disregard javascript comparison, I misremembered
2019-12-27T00:08:38 < Thorn> but at least in c++, a lot of crap can be avoided, it's mostly not mandatory
2019-12-27T00:09:46 < BrainDamage> every time I read disregard, I am reminded of http://www.bash.org/?5775
2019-12-27T00:09:54 < Cracki> rust is fawned over by the "functional programming" (type systems fetishist) crowd
2019-12-27T00:10:27 < Cracki> it's a new toy with lots of lofty ideas and ideals but in practice you get gulag
2019-12-27T00:11:02 < Cracki> it's a maze. those people love mazes.
2019-12-27T00:11:11 < Steffanx> .unwrap()
2019-12-27T00:11:14 < Cracki> it's definitely not an engineer's tool
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2019-12-27T00:26:57 < Cracki> according to this, rust is european dominated, i.e. dominated by people who are marinated in european programming language history https://www.meetup.com/topics/rust/
2019-12-27T00:31:00 < Thorn> I'm a big fan of Wirth and his approach to language design but I really don't see rust borrowing anything from there
2019-12-27T00:33:58 < specing> could you imagine them borrowing wirthian syntax?
2019-12-27T00:34:03 < specing> nobody would like it!
2019-12-27T00:34:08 < specing> just like nobody likes Ada!
2019-12-27T00:34:51 < Cracki> it's not about the syntax but about the academic heritage
2019-12-27T00:34:58 < specing> your language isn't worth anything if it doesen't average 25% punctuation in code!
2019-12-27T00:35:33 < Cracki> europe derives computer science from math, hence all the type systems stuff. america derives it from electrical engineering...
2019-12-27T00:36:36 < Cracki> be wary of people who love puzzles. they'll turn the simplest things into a puzzle.
2019-12-27T00:37:07 < Thorn> algebraic data types, Hindley–Milner type inference (as used in functional languages) -- that's all american afaict
2019-12-27T00:38:26 < Thorn> oh wait looks like Hindley and Milner are both British lol
2019-12-27T00:43:07 < Cracki> even such exotic stuff as lisp is merely derived from church-turing thesis, which concerns itself with computation, not type mazes
2019-12-27T00:44:11 < Cracki> much is written on accidental complexity vs. essential complexity
2019-12-27T00:45:44 < Cracki> I think tools that build mazes must also solve them
2019-12-27T00:47:11 < Cracki> field like theorem proving, model checking, static analysis, ... not only claim "proven/disproven", they also throw a witness (proof/disproof) at you that other tools can verify (or show to be erroneous)
2019-12-27T00:49:39 < Cracki> shops like mathworks or siemens throw money at that kind of research because it *immediately* improves the situation. the situation is that you _have_ code and programmers for certain established langs, and you get either a correctness guarantee or a counterexample you can reproduce and follow in a debugger
2019-12-27T00:50:40 < Cracki> stuff like rust says to throw away everything you have (now you're poor) and reeducate your workforce (gulag)
2019-12-27T00:51:27 < Cracki> the problem now is that instead of smarter tools (which some smarties make for you in exchange for money), you need a smarter workforce, which is impossible
2019-12-27T00:52:09 < qyx> so instead of these awesome languages
2019-12-27T00:52:17 < qyx> we program in labview
2019-12-27T00:52:30 < Cracki> labview is nobody's favorite
2019-12-27T00:52:42 < Cracki> but now you can prove labview mazes
2019-12-27T00:52:59 < Cracki> or you do it in simulink (model based software construction)
2019-12-27T00:53:55 < Cracki> instead of writing a state machine directly in C code or whatever, you model as the graph it truly is
2019-12-27T00:54:21 < Cracki> code can be generated trivially but this structure is hard to pry out of code when you only have code.
2019-12-27T00:55:01 < Cracki> a state machine isn't just its states. it is its *transitions*
2019-12-27T00:55:44 < Cracki> and you need to make those visible. when they're visible (explicit) you *can* ask *if* and *how* this thing can deadlock/livelock or run into error states
2019-12-27T00:56:34 < Cracki> fuck testing. testing requires you to come up with the paths to errors. this kind of stuff FINDS the paths for you. you just say what's an error (such as any failed assertion)
2019-12-27T00:57:10 < Cracki> if you want to change how people program, let them keep their languages but give them tool support
2019-12-27T00:57:47 < Cracki> when assertions aren't just HCFing your program or device anymore, but do something at compile time, that's novel
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2019-12-27T01:10:47 < Cracki> take assembly without the ability to pop whole stack frames. you'd have to pay attention to how much you push and pop. rust is saying "bad! you made a mistake!"
2019-12-27T01:11:20 < Cracki> a real solution entirely removes your ability to make the mistake: higher languages that manage local variables for you
2019-12-27T01:18:53 < Cracki> kek https://people.mpi-sws.org/~dreyer/papers/rustbelt/paper.pdf#page=23
2019-12-27T01:22:49 < Cracki> also https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Iy90JHZsg-Q&list=PLr9U39XQOpezgcbSmskkvllcvAcXuY4oI&index=45
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2019-12-27T02:00:49 < mawk> specing: substituting ; by END isn't great either
2019-12-27T02:01:38 < specing> mawk: end does not substitute ;
2019-12-27T02:02:12 < mawk> in an hypothetical non-punctuation languazge
2019-12-27T02:04:51 < Cracki> #define END ;
2019-12-27T02:11:34 < mawk> I fixed a keyboard issue with all the bios hacking
2019-12-27T02:11:38 < mawk> that was useful at least
2019-12-27T02:11:43 < mawk> fixed or at least discovered a fi
2019-12-27T02:11:45 < mawk> x
2019-12-27T02:11:55 < mawk> needed to set the OSI ACPI parameter to Linux
2019-12-27T02:12:07 < mawk> or set the "OSI Linux" BIOS option
2019-12-27T02:12:27 < specing> Cracki: haha I must try this in some c/c++ code
2019-12-27T02:12:32 < specing> code like its ada
2019-12-27T02:12:34 < specing> :D
2019-12-27T02:12:46 < Cracki> you can even have repeat until and so on
2019-12-27T02:13:07 < specing> #define begin { # define end } #define loop for (;;) #define ...
2019-12-27T02:13:12 < specing> it'll be glorious
2019-12-27T02:23:50 < Cracki> I think I'll give C++ and cubemx another try... last time it was unpleasant. cubemx code regeneration flips its shit if things aren't just right
2019-12-27T02:24:42 < Cracki> but I would like to retain the ability to change stuff in cubemx and have it update the code
2019-12-27T02:29:46 < mawk> yeah just code between the USER CODE BEGIN that's all
2019-12-27T02:29:50 < mawk> and opt in for separate .h/.c
2019-12-27T02:29:54 < mawk> and you've got a nice dev env
2019-12-27T02:39:51 < mawk> doomba: https://pastebin.com/0ZRBYtng https://pastebin.com/e9Q9Z434
2019-12-27T02:40:05 < mawk> I uploaded two confidential Intel documents
2019-12-27T02:40:12 < mawk> FBI knocking on my door tomorrow at 5am
2019-12-27T02:47:30 < Cracki> shit man those pastes kill my browser
2019-12-27T02:47:46 < Cracki> https://pastebin.com/raw/0ZRBYtng https://pastebin.com/raw/e9Q9Z4
2019-12-27T02:47:46 < mawk> lol
2019-12-27T02:47:49 < Cracki> raw ftw
2019-12-27T02:47:55 < mawk> they are 170KiB pastes
2019-12-27T02:47:59 < mawk> maybe not enough RAM
2019-12-27T02:48:20 < mawk> see I even got the real file names
2019-12-27T02:48:23 < Cracki> maybe too many addons that filter the dom
2019-12-27T02:48:38 < mawk> I extracted them from a win32 executable using binwalk
2019-12-27T02:48:41 < mawk> looking for XML signatures
2019-12-27T02:48:56 < mawk> or rather looking for zlib/lzma signatures, decompressing, finding xml inside
2019-12-27T03:06:10 < Cracki> marketable skill, hw reverse engineering
2019-12-27T03:06:15 < Cracki> *firmware
2019-12-27T03:07:10 < specing> sadly all those jobs are in china :D
2019-12-27T03:07:49 < Cracki> har
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2019-12-27T03:30:30 < jadew> speaking of china
2019-12-27T03:30:48 < jadew> is there some sort of service that manufactures your shit and also sells it?
2019-12-27T03:30:56 < jadew> (straight from china)
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2019-12-27T03:46:44 < kakisemipro> there is anything and everything you pay for
2019-12-27T03:47:00 < jadew> I was looking for links :)
2019-12-27T03:47:19 < kakisemipro> just ask manuf to sell
2019-12-27T03:47:42 < kakisemipro> they have their own e-marketplace presense
2019-12-27T03:48:01 < kakisemipro> but if you want selling with western standards hmm
2019-12-27T03:48:21 < kakisemipro> the whole fine polished package hmm
2019-12-27T03:48:34 < jadew> that's the thing, I do not want that
2019-12-27T03:48:47 < kakisemipro> you want what?
2019-12-27T03:49:29 < jadew> I want to sell crap at chinese standards
2019-12-27T03:49:45 < kakisemipro> I don't see any other problem there
2019-12-27T03:49:53 < kakisemipro> but how you get any money from them
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2019-12-27T03:50:04 < kakisemipro> they manuf and sell
2019-12-27T03:50:05 < jadew> kakisemipro, volume?
2019-12-27T03:50:15 < jadew> oh, you mean how I get paid?
2019-12-27T03:50:23 < jadew> I don't know... but there has to be a way
2019-12-27T03:50:32 < kakisemipro> I mean if the whole thing is at their hands
2019-12-27T03:50:42 < jadew> right, they can just ignore me
2019-12-27T03:50:50 < kakisemipro> not likelly
2019-12-27T03:51:08 < kakisemipro> but present false statistics
2019-12-27T03:51:23 < jadew> like what?
2019-12-27T03:51:34 < kakisemipro> produced units sold
2019-12-27T03:51:40 < jadew> oh, right
2019-12-27T03:51:45 < jadew> that's a good point
2019-12-27T03:52:09 < jadew> well, it would have to be a reliable service that does this
2019-12-27T03:52:36 < kakisemipro> yes
2019-12-27T03:53:53 < kakisemipro> I smell like a dog
2019-12-27T03:53:58 < kakisemipro> null>
2019-12-27T03:54:11 < jadew> don't get wet
2019-12-27T03:54:18 < jadew> you'll smell worse
2019-12-27T03:56:04 < Cracki> white people smell like wet dog, according to some other people
2019-12-27T03:56:39 < jadew> really?
2019-12-27T03:57:02 < Cracki> https://www.amazon.com/White-People-Smell-Like-Dogs/dp/0967597102
2019-12-27T03:57:10 < Cracki> not that I would know, I'm white
2019-12-27T03:58:21 < jadew> the comments are great
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2019-12-27T03:58:28 < Cracki> wypipo and dogs must have evolved to smell similar... and other pipo haven't
2019-12-27T04:00:12 < kakinull> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JrHDeSMvnt4 freedom maximized
2019-12-27T04:00:26 < Cracki> does it come with rocket launcher
2019-12-27T04:00:32 < Cracki> wow muricans are tiny
2019-12-27T04:00:41 < Cracki> is he like a meter tall
2019-12-27T04:01:23 < kakinull> doug de muro is 2meter tall
2019-12-27T04:01:37 < kakinull> 1.95 or something
2019-12-27T04:01:59 < Cracki> murican meters perhaps
2019-12-27T04:02:19 < jadew> a 150k redneck badge
2019-12-27T04:02:37 < kakinull> 1.92 metric meters
2019-12-27T04:03:14 < jadew> 6l engine lol
2019-12-27T04:03:21 < jadew> bbye money
2019-12-27T04:03:24 < Cracki> that's a matchbox truck, he's really 200 thou tall
2019-12-27T04:04:01 < kakinull> jadew: it's made of standard utility truck frame
2019-12-27T04:04:09 < kakinull> those have like 200hp
2019-12-27T04:04:22 < Cracki> without 200 hp they wouldn't even start rolling
2019-12-27T04:04:33 < kakinull> thats the point
2019-12-27T04:05:03 < kakinull> just enought to accelerate
2019-12-27T04:05:20 < jadew> if I had lots of money, I'd get one
2019-12-27T04:05:57 < kakinull> boss of the town
2019-12-27T04:06:13 < jadew> that would be a great sticker for that car
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2019-12-27T04:07:18 < kakinull> you would push casually all small fiats out of your way
2019-12-27T04:07:49 < jadew> I would park in the bus station
2019-12-27T04:08:32 < jadew> inconveniencing everyone there :D
2019-12-27T04:09:22 < Cracki> you'd drive like a tank, take both lanes
2019-12-27T04:09:40 < Cracki> do muricans have lines that wide or is that thing simply taller than wide?
2019-12-27T04:10:10 < jadew> it's probably just tall
2019-12-27T04:10:33 < Cracki> so one little tornado and it flips over
2019-12-27T04:10:58 < Cracki> it must be wide because if it weren't, everyone would laugh when they see it in the rear mirror
2019-12-27T04:11:15 < jadew> https://youtu.be/JrHDeSMvnt4?t=463
2019-12-27T04:11:23 < jadew> it's visible at this part in the video
2019-12-27T04:11:46 < jadew> probably wider than a regular car, but not wider than a truck
2019-12-27T04:11:47 < Cracki> lol dat bed is chest high
2019-12-27T04:11:55 < jadew> yeah :P
2019-12-27T04:12:24 < Cracki> that thing is what daddy buys his jock son for high school graduation
2019-12-27T04:12:38 < Cracki> hope most of it is tin foil because it's a waste of material otherwise
2019-12-27T04:13:28 < Cracki> too shiny, that's not a workhorse at all
2019-12-27T04:15:00 < jadew> it's a perfect car for carrying a massive ego around town
2019-12-27T04:15:42 < Cracki> they should build humans like that. corn fed, 9 ft, 500 lbs, ...
2019-12-27T04:15:48 < jadew> you could have sex in the back, in a parking lot, and nobody would see you
2019-12-27T04:16:21 < Cracki> you could have sex on the hood and nobody would dare say anything
2019-12-27T04:16:24 < jadew> they do make 500 lbs people in the USA
2019-12-27T04:16:31 < Cracki> hutt people
2019-12-27T04:17:50 < jadew> there was a guy that ended up on some TV shows after having sex on the roof of a building
2019-12-27T04:18:03 < jadew> which was surrounded by much taller buildings lol
2019-12-27T04:19:15 < Cracki> >Not big enough , waiting for the Greta Tunberg limited edition with 6 wheels , V12 and 8 exhaust pipes
2019-12-27T04:20:18 < Cracki> advantage of living in 2-story-max flatland: you can suntan your marbles in the backyard and nobody can spy on you
2019-12-27T04:21:19 < jadew> we almost bought a house once, but I had some concerns about it and we didn't
2019-12-27T04:21:36 < jadew> 6 months later, there was an apartment building built right beside it
2019-12-27T04:22:00 < jadew> 4 stories tall
2019-12-27T04:22:13 < jadew> with the balconies facing the backyard
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2019-12-27T04:22:28 < specing> lol
2019-12-27T04:23:30 < jadew> exactly, I laughed and was happy we didn't buy it
2019-12-27T04:23:54 < jadew> someone else did tho, he was living there
2019-12-27T04:24:47 < jadew> similarly, my guitar teacher bought a house in the same area, small backyard, but it was nice
2019-12-27T04:25:16 < jadew> by the end of the year you could only see the sky if you looked up
2019-12-27T04:28:26 < Cracki> the oppressive shade annoys me too. imho buildings should be further apart than they're tall and permanently shaded area should be minimized (building built with axis north-south)
2019-12-27T04:29:20 < jadew> all building standards were ignored in that area
2019-12-27T04:29:20 < Cracki> watch what comes out of this drain! https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RPvB39A9Yns&list=PLr9U39XQOpezgcbSmskkvllcvAcXuY4oI&index=47
2019-12-27T04:30:36 < jadew> nothing came out yet, but I'll take a guess
2019-12-27T04:30:43 < jadew> it's either some animal or shit
2019-12-27T04:31:41 < Cracki> nope
2019-12-27T04:32:06 < jadew> hah
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2019-12-27T04:56:24 < kakinull> howe is buiness jadew
2019-12-27T04:58:16 < jadew> not great
2019-12-27T05:01:34 < jadew> I was designing something earlier and I realized that it's not going to sell if I do it right
2019-12-27T05:02:35 < jadew> because most people are stupid, and they'd rather buy something cheaper from china that has better or similar claims, but is garbage in ways they don't understand
2019-12-27T05:04:00 < jadew> so I was considering making that cheap shit with amazing specs too
2019-12-27T05:04:33 < jadew> (hence my question about making and selling straight from china)
2019-12-27T05:05:49 < Cracki> maybe contact robotdyn. he's a guy making arduino-style boards, has one with an f303 on it
2019-12-27T05:05:57 < Cracki> he has stuff shipped from china, apparently
2019-12-27T05:06:17 < jadew> I'm not really looking to brand things
2019-12-27T05:06:41 < Cracki> sure but he probably knows how to mfg in china and sell from china without getting ripped off
2019-12-27T05:07:33 < jadew> right
2019-12-27T05:09:08 < jadew> I also decided that for the products I make under my brand, I'll stop competing with the chinese
2019-12-27T05:09:13 < Cracki> otoh those people might even live there and do their own packaging and shipping
2019-12-27T05:09:35 < jadew> Cracki, yeah, I think a lot of people do that
2019-12-27T05:10:01 < Cracki> random result https://www.locationrebel.com/how-to-manufacture-a-product-in-china/
2019-12-27T05:10:35 < jadew> well, I kinda know how to manufacture a product there
2019-12-27T05:10:51 < jadew> it's the selling part and not getting ripped off which is unclear
2019-12-27T05:10:56 < Cracki> right, it's that part
2019-12-27T05:13:35 < Cracki> this has a "shipping" section https://www.locationrebel.com/how-to-run-a-physical-product-business-from-anywhere/
2019-12-27T05:13:42 < Cracki> shipping as a service
2019-12-27T05:14:44 < Cracki> oh, again it's just export, not individual shipping
2019-12-27T05:15:49 < Cracki> https://yakkyofy.com/blog/ultimate-dropshipping-guide-en/how-to-find-a-warehouse-fulfillment-center-in-china-for-your-dropshipping-business/
2019-12-27T05:16:27 < Cracki> looks like you need a "warehouse" in some way, even if it's a few rack meters in someone's basement
2019-12-27T05:18:08 < Cracki> https://www.chinaimportal.com/blog/fulfillment-centers-china-hong-kong/
2019-12-27T05:19:22 < jadew> hmm, that's pretty neat
2019-12-27T05:19:24 < Cracki> heh, with one provider you can have fulfillment centers in china and several european places
2019-12-27T05:19:44 < Cracki> and obviously they keep your stuff in stock, so straight from factory to there
2019-12-27T05:21:00 < jadew> yeah, that looks great
2019-12-27T05:21:21 < Cracki> nother random link https://www.fulfillmen.com/ I don't see mentioned in that last article
2019-12-27T05:28:51 < Jak_o_Shadows> Now, on my STM32 F103 blue pill, i've never been able to get the RTC to keep time properly.
2019-12-27T05:29:22 < Jak_o_Shadows> I just saw a forum thread that mentioned something about not loading PC13?
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2019-12-27T06:19:39 < dongs> hmm JW5211 seems to be even more brokebitch version of SY8088
2019-12-27T06:25:47 < dongs> hmm, actually slightly better internal fet rdson
2019-12-27T06:25:49 < dongs> than SY
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2019-12-27T06:28:07 < Jak_o_Shadows> I think I found my problem.
2019-12-27T06:28:28 < Jak_o_Shadows> LOC3 was not actually changing the prescaler value when you reflashed
2019-12-27T06:28:28 < dongs> you trying to use lunix?
2019-12-27T06:28:31 < Jak_o_Shadows> had to full power cycle
2019-12-27T06:28:36 < Jak_o_Shadows> nuh
2019-12-27T06:30:06 < dongs> so im gonna try something with my libusb woes
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2019-12-27T06:31:13 < Jak_o_Shadows> oh hell, good luck mate
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2019-12-27T07:47:01 < Cracki> I don't understand a word but it's funny https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RBXzHf-FrJU
2019-12-27T08:23:31 < doomba> v2 assburger controller
2019-12-27T08:23:33 < doomba> https://i.imgur.com/wf9eN7k.png
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2019-12-27T09:25:15 < dongs> doomba: is that using the lunix allwinner shit
2019-12-27T09:25:20 < dongs> wait no
2019-12-27T09:25:23 < dongs> some autism
2019-12-27T09:25:25 < dongs> what is it
2019-12-27T09:25:48 < dongs> why in the living fuck are you using that retarded microUSB footprint
2019-12-27T09:25:49 < dongs> what the hell
2019-12-27T09:25:56 < dongs> did you not read zypsnips for recommended shit
2019-12-27T09:40:40 < zyp> obviously not
2019-12-27T10:01:12 < qyx> doomba: are those relays for mains voltage?
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2019-12-27T11:10:12 < dongs> nice lack of slots for HV isolation if it is
2019-12-27T11:10:36 < dongs> and nice vias in GND
2019-12-27T11:10:41 < dongs> on the phoenix or wahtever connectors
2019-12-27T11:10:48 < dongs> vias? thermals.
2019-12-27T11:10:49 < dongs> that.
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2019-12-27T11:35:19 < dongs> so i generated soem repeated data with my USB shit
2019-12-27T11:38:26 < dongs> http://bcas.tv/paste/results/z16M0N41.html its missing around 800- bytes
2019-12-27T11:48:18 < dongs> http://bcas.tv/paste/results/Acz4yF30.html ooh, this is interesting
2019-12-27T11:48:24 < dongs> its missing exactly 1024 bytes
2019-12-27T11:48:29 < dongs> at least if my calculations are correct
2019-12-27T11:48:29 < dongs> HMMM
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2019-12-27T12:48:37 < dongs> hmm wat
2019-12-27T12:48:47 < dongs> i think its working directly plugged in vs hub
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2019-12-27T13:25:23 < zyp> so what do you mean by missed? are you certain it's sent by the mcu?
2019-12-27T13:25:52 < zyp> have you tried looking at the bus traffic with an analyzer?
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2019-12-27T14:33:57 < catphish> USBs don't just go missing :(
2019-12-27T14:34:45 < catphish> some of the STM32 USBs are pretty complex though!
2019-12-27T14:35:50 < dongs> zyp, its usb-hs and the issue only occurs at 50-100mbit of shit being sent
2019-12-27T14:35:59 < dongs> but yeah i should prolyl dust out my ellisys usb thing and log some stuff
2019-12-27T14:37:54 < dongs> > are you certain it's sent
2019-12-27T14:37:54 < dongs> yeah
2019-12-27T14:46:40 < h4x0riz3d> https://i.imgur.com/8msW2XO.png ;P~
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2019-12-27T14:56:03 < Steffanx> So much SMD this time h4x0riz3d
2019-12-27T14:57:12 < h4x0riz3d> there's nothing on the back side
2019-12-27T15:02:06 < tcth> what am I looking at?
2019-12-27T15:09:37 < dongs> some MIDI shite
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2019-12-27T15:26:54 < h4x0riz3d> audio shizzle
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2019-12-27T16:07:18 < Steffanx> What oidio do you make h4x0riz3d ?
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2019-12-27T16:30:39 < h4x0riz3d> music shizzle
2019-12-27T16:34:23 < Steffanx> Any sample you can share with us/me, mr h4x0riz3d ?
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2019-12-27T17:05:49 < doomba> it's not mains voltage. it's 5VDC from an ATX PSU
2019-12-27T17:05:56 < doomba> so no HV separation
2019-12-27T17:06:29 < doomba> the mounting holes with vias in them are retarded because i still didn't figure out how to connect them to the filled zones in kikecad
2019-12-27T17:07:08 < doomba> USB-C is for elysium class hipsters
2019-12-27T17:11:52 < dongs> tehre are way better usb-b sockets too
2019-12-27T17:12:29 < doomba> the cheapie shitty usb micro-b i'm using is fine for this though.
2019-12-27T17:13:29 < doomba> it's stationary / plugged in for its whole life
2019-12-27T17:14:31 < doomba> i already cargo-culted HILARIOUSLY enough with that stupid stm32 G031 serial luks key thing
2019-12-27T17:14:39 < doomba> because i thought so8n was different than SOIC
2019-12-27T17:14:51 < doomba> thought it was smaller somehow and wouldn't work with a soic test clip
2019-12-27T17:15:02 < doomba> so i put fucking pads on the edge of the pcb
2019-12-27T17:15:06 < doomba> for a soic clip
2019-12-27T17:15:23 < doomba> <- dumbass
2019-12-27T17:15:43 < doomba> and yes these boards are shipping
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2019-12-27T18:56:12 < doomba> bitmask: https://git.salcedo.tech/salcedo/cluster-controller
2019-12-27T18:56:16 < doomba> get building :)
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2019-12-27T18:57:33 < bitmask> I donts needsa cluster
2019-12-27T18:57:43 < doomba> everyone needs a cluster
2019-12-27T18:57:54 < doomba> to create their own walled gardens
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2019-12-27T22:23:03 < ub|k> still trying to make my Clouds/Monsoon work. now it's the codec which doesn't seem to work OK (WM8731). I can see I2S activity with the scope, though
2019-12-27T22:23:21 < ub|k> the MCU is not getting right measurements, that's for sure
2019-12-27T22:23:49 < ub|k> i suspect something wrong with the codec, any ideas on how to troubleshoot it?
2019-12-27T22:24:00 < ub|k> (circuit here https://mutable-instruments.net/modules/clouds/downloads/clouds_v30.pdf)
2019-12-27T22:25:31 < ub|k> i have a logic analyzer, but these pins are really tiny :/
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2019-12-27T22:31:36 < Cracki> post a trace of the LA
2019-12-27T22:31:40 < Cracki> not screenshot, data
2019-12-27T22:31:52 < Cracki> decode it. sigrok/pulseview can do it.
2019-12-27T22:33:30 < aandrew> zyp: yeah they got back to me to say the price is wrong
2019-12-27T22:33:31 < aandrew> pity
2019-12-27T22:33:35 < ub|k> Cracki: as I said, the pins are super tiny, so i'm afraid I'll mess something up if I try to solder something to them
2019-12-27T22:33:46 < ub|k> and I can't see how to measure them otherwise
2019-12-27T22:33:50 < aandrew> tcth: I can do anything with pointers in C
2019-12-27T22:35:19 < Cracki> those pins connect to traces
2019-12-27T22:35:27 < Cracki> any of those traces have vias?
2019-12-27T22:35:41 < tcth> aandrew, can you be memory safe?
2019-12-27T22:35:48 < tcth> (as BrainDamage pointed out)
2019-12-27T22:36:00 < Cracki> and what leads you to believe the data is bad or the codec is?
2019-12-27T22:37:55 < aandrew> tcth: what is memory safe
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2019-12-27T22:38:12 < aandrew> tcth: I mean honestly if you don't do pointer math and you validate your offsets, it's safe
2019-12-27T22:38:21 < Cracki> ^
2019-12-27T22:38:31 < aandrew> or, if you do pointer math and you verify your ranges before dereferencign, it's afe
2019-12-27T22:38:39 < aandrew> wow can't type
2019-12-27T22:38:45 < Cracki> concurrency is hairy in any situation until you have abstraction
2019-12-27T22:41:08 < zyp> aandrew, awh, still no update on mine
2019-12-27T22:41:55 < aandrew> it took quite some time beore she replied saying she was very sorry
2019-12-27T22:42:12 < zyp> oh, wait, there's a message
2019-12-27T22:42:18 < Steffanx> awh
2019-12-27T22:42:30 < Steffanx> such surprise.
2019-12-27T22:42:31 < aandrew> same message?
2019-12-27T22:42:58 < Steffanx> Are you going to spend 2.3k now?
2019-12-27T22:43:02 < aandrew> nope
2019-12-27T22:43:04 < Steffanx> euros
2019-12-27T22:43:24 < aandrew> if I could have got it for 1/10 asking price Id' ahve grabbed it
2019-12-27T22:43:26 < zyp> she's telling me to let her know if I still want it so she can give me «an exact price»
2019-12-27T22:43:36 < aandrew> haha yes that's the same message I got too
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2019-12-27T22:44:33 < zyp> I guess I'm just gonna ignore it for now and see how the aliexpress system works when sellers fuck up
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2019-12-27T22:44:59 < Steffanx> refund probably. it usually says that. Refund after xx days or something
2019-12-27T22:45:27 < zyp> yeah, I'm assuming that'll happen
2019-12-27T22:45:55 < zyp> but idk if there's some penalty for sellers that can't fulfill
2019-12-27T22:46:05 < Steffanx> Such haarsh mr zyp
2019-12-27T22:46:51 < Thorn> afaict these days they keep "extending protection" so that they don't have to refund
2019-12-27T22:47:30 < Thorn> (at least if the package has been sent and is lost or delayed for a long time)
2019-12-27T22:48:40 < Thorn> >If your order does not arrive on 2020-02-09 , you can apply for a refund by opening a dispute.
2019-12-27T22:48:51 < Thorn> and that date keeps moving back
2019-12-27T22:49:39 < zyp> idk, I got a refund for some shit that didn't arrive
2019-12-27T22:50:44 < zyp> (which was halfway my fault, I forgot to update address when I ordered and when I messaged them immediately to fix it they refused)
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2019-12-27T23:07:37 < Cracki> I thought it was possible to open a dispute even when the "protection" hasn't run out https://youtu.be/wRCncffwH64?t=736
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2019-12-27T23:58:14 < ub|k> Cracki: here's the LA output for the I2C traffic: https://mega.nz/#!X40HDCBT!MdLZsIgzjKT99NTpFAnk3qHa7BE5JU1-d6PQnok6xeo
2019-12-27T23:59:12 < ub|k> I2S is more complicated because i have to find some way to connect to one of the traces/vias
2019-12-27T23:59:30 < Cracki> indeed
2019-12-27T23:59:46 < Cracki> soldering to a via is a little trickier than plain old through-hole pins
--- Day changed Sat Dec 28 2019
2019-12-28T00:00:07 < ub|k> for I2C there were 2 resistors i could just solder to
2019-12-28T00:00:56 < ub|k> anyway, the I2C traffic seems fine and the MCU gets confirmation from the codec
2019-12-28T00:02:02 < Cracki> protocol decoder needs wordselect line :P
2019-12-28T00:02:13 < Cracki> sda looks a little glichy
2019-12-28T00:02:16 < Cracki> +t
2019-12-28T00:03:04 < Cracki> otoh data looks stable
2019-12-28T00:03:49 < ub|k> i'll try to hook something to the I2S lines
2019-12-28T00:04:05 < Cracki> so... WHY do you think something's broken?
2019-12-28T00:04:17 < Cracki> you didn't say what's actually wrong for you to think something's wrong
2019-12-28T00:04:41 < Cracki> "not getting right measurements" meaning what precisely
2019-12-28T00:06:05 < ub|k> well, the module should work as a kind of VU meter by default and when I send a signal to the input noting happens
2019-12-28T00:06:17 < Cracki> define nothing happens
2019-12-28T00:06:21 < ub|k> I used openocd + gdb to debug the firmware
2019-12-28T00:06:27 < Cracki> it's clearly sending data that's not just noise
2019-12-28T00:06:32 < ub|k> the VU meter doesn't move
2019-12-28T00:06:46 < Cracki> "the firmware" is made by who?
2019-12-28T00:06:58 < Cracki> what is "the vu meter"
2019-12-28T00:07:04 < Cracki> how does a firmware move
2019-12-28T00:07:09 < ub|k> I used openocd + gdb to debug the firmware and saw that i'm just getting 0 on one channel and 0xffxx on the other one
2019-12-28T00:07:15 < Cracki> good
2019-12-28T00:07:31 < Cracki> so now you get to figure out why it's receiving nothing while the line clearly has valid i2s data
2019-12-28T00:08:03 < ub|k> well, that's I2C
2019-12-28T00:08:09 < Cracki> what could break between those two points? the i2s peripheral could be misconfigured
2019-12-28T00:08:13 < Cracki> the pins could not be mapped right
2019-12-28T00:08:22 < ub|k> this is the firmware: https://github.com/pichenettes/eurorack/tree/master/clouds
2019-12-28T00:08:33 < ub|k> and the VU meter is a series of LEDs
2019-12-28T00:08:43 < ub|k> controlled by a binary counter
2019-12-28T00:08:44 < Cracki> i2s and i2c aren't exactly the same thing
2019-12-28T00:09:10 < ub|k> i mean, you said i'm getting valid i2s data. i'm not sure about that. i'm getting valid i2c
2019-12-28T00:09:17 < ub|k> which is just the control interface
2019-12-28T00:09:22 < Cracki> didn't you say f103?
2019-12-28T00:09:27 < Cracki> the makefile says 168 mhz
2019-12-28T00:09:36 < ub|k> f405
2019-12-28T00:09:45 < Cracki> ok
2019-12-28T00:10:02 < englishman> jlcpcb offering free assembly
2019-12-28T00:10:04 < englishman> hmmmm
2019-12-28T00:10:11 < ub|k> englishman: whaat? cool.
2019-12-28T00:10:16 < Cracki> whatever you had in that sigrok trace looks like i2s
2019-12-28T00:10:32 < Cracki> was that supposed to be control data, not payload?
2019-12-28T00:10:40 < ub|k> i used the pulseview i2c decoder on it and it worked
2019-12-28T00:10:42 < ub|k> yeah
2019-12-28T00:10:44 < thardin> englishman: for any components? or just a selection?
2019-12-28T00:10:44 < ub|k> just control data
2019-12-28T00:10:58 < englishman> thardin: just their lil catalogue
2019-12-28T00:10:59 < englishman> lol
2019-12-28T00:11:11 < englishman> still
2019-12-28T00:11:18 < englishman> if thats 90% of your board
2019-12-28T00:11:20 < englishman> p cool
2019-12-28T00:11:45 < thardin> hey if it's cheap enough
2019-12-28T00:12:02 < Cracki> so that LA trace doesn't help in narrowing the problem down
2019-12-28T00:13:53 < ub|k> Cracki: yeah, I'll try to hook something up to the I2S bus
2019-12-28T00:14:17 < Cracki> touching the wires to contacts can be good enough
2019-12-28T00:14:31 < Cracki> if you can keep them steady for a second and not shorting anyhting
2019-12-28T00:15:03 < Cracki> goal is to get a LA sample to decode into a wav file
2019-12-28T00:16:55 < Cracki> (with some steps in between)
2019-12-28T00:19:07 < Cracki> if the la trace of I2S already looks dead, no need for that
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2019-12-28T00:35:12 < ub|k> Cracki: https://mega.nz/#!vxthDSTY!PXRlT6xpsOkDlZJcANoOAyDhv5Y2GcStTswBsC-9Bjc
2019-12-28T00:35:15 < ub|k> looks far from dead
2019-12-28T00:36:48 < Cracki> SIN is the data line i presume?
2019-12-28T00:37:36 < ub|k> yes
2019-12-28T00:37:47 < Cracki> la sampling rate is insufficient
2019-12-28T00:38:01 < ub|k> ok
2019-12-28T00:38:13 < ub|k> i have it at 6MHz
2019-12-28T00:38:22 < Cracki> that clock is sampled at nyquist freq. that's marginal
2019-12-28T00:38:33 < ub|k> ok
2019-12-28T00:38:45 < ub|k> is 12 ok?
2019-12-28T00:38:50 < Cracki> you'd want at least four samples per period so you get at least two samples for each high and low
2019-12-28T00:38:52 < Cracki> sounds good
2019-12-28T00:40:22 < Cracki> data line looks like it's sensible though. patterns look stable
2019-12-28T00:41:17 < Cracki> so we can assume the chip hears stuff and emits it properly. that means the mcu is to blame.
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2019-12-28T00:43:12 < Cracki> 32 khz sampling rate, ic ic
2019-12-28T00:44:28 < Cracki> oh nice the sigrok PD claims to produce a straight wav file
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2019-12-28T00:52:22 < Cracki> this seems to produce a wav but the current trace is mostly undecodable $ sigrok-cli -i codec_i2s.sr -P i2s:sck=I2S_SCK:ws=I2S_LRCK:sd=I2S_SIN -B i2s=wav > codec_i2s.wav
2019-12-28T00:52:54 < catphish> i still find it hard to trust nyquist, but clearly it works
2019-12-28T00:53:02 < Steffanx> Lol
2019-12-28T00:55:03 < catphish> intuitively, it shouldn't work
2019-12-28T00:55:12 < Cracki> and that command line only produces noise even for stuff in sigrok-dumps
2019-12-28T00:55:18 < Cracki> "shouldn't"?
2019-12-28T00:55:34 < catphish> kinda like how bees shouldn't be able to fly
2019-12-28T00:55:35 < Cracki> if you have at least a sample per half-wave that's *marginal*
2019-12-28T00:55:45 < Cracki> that's the limit
2019-12-28T00:55:53 < catphish> there's no mrginal though, it's absolut
2019-12-28T00:56:07 < Cracki> then you aren't looking at data close enough
2019-12-28T00:56:20 < Cracki> also, define "intuitively it shouldn't"
2019-12-28T00:56:37 < catphish> you can 100% reconstruct everything with a freqnency less that sample rate / 2
2019-12-28T00:56:47 < catphish> well it's hard to define intuition, that's the point
2019-12-28T00:56:57 < catphish> it just *feels* like it shouldn't work
2019-12-28T00:56:57 < Cracki> phase and amplitude gets fucky near nyquist freq
2019-12-28T00:57:42 < Cracki> because if you sample a sine at nyquist freq at exactly the wrong phade, you're hitting its zero crossings all the time, getting nothing
2019-12-28T00:58:35 < catphish> phase and amplitude changes can presumably still be defined in the same way
2019-12-28T00:58:36 < Cracki> and when you approach nyquist freq, you get a "beat". it's mixing.
2019-12-28T00:58:47 < catphish> they just require more frequencies to be mixed in
2019-12-28T00:58:57 < Cracki> i don't understand what you say
2019-12-28T01:00:51 < catphish> well i assume (rightly or wrongly) that a phase shift in a sine wave can be represented as a function of other frequencies mixed together
2019-12-28T01:01:59 < Cracki> uh
2019-12-28T01:02:07 < Cracki> no.
2019-12-28T01:02:56 < Cracki> the only component of a signal with *that* frequency is *that* frequency
2019-12-28T01:03:18 < Cracki> and by frequency I mean oscillation, i.e. freq and phase
2019-12-28T01:03:43 < catphish> there must be a way to digitally represent a change in phase
2019-12-28T01:03:51 < Cracki> if you add two oscillations that have the same freq but different phases, you still get the same freq but a different phase
2019-12-28T01:04:14 < Cracki> what is "digitally represent"
2019-12-28T01:04:45 < Cracki> time domain? frequency domain?
2019-12-28T01:04:53 < catphish> well, imagine you have a 1Hz sgnal, and you sample it at 2sps, nyquist says it works
2019-12-28T01:05:07 < Cracki> nyquist says at exactly that frequency it doesn't
2019-12-28T01:05:27 < catphish> interesting
2019-12-28T01:05:57 < Cracki> and appraoching it (limit) is a bad idea because you need a progressively larger time interval, assuming it's an oscillation not varying in amplitude, to determine its properties
2019-12-28T01:06:32 < catphish> but my point is that if that signal changes phase, it must still be possible to represent that phase change in a digitally encoded representation
2019-12-28T01:06:50 < catphish> (and that would require a higher sampling rate)
2019-12-28T01:07:01 < Cracki> rule of thumb is to use not 2x the highest freq you need, but 2.2x. personally I prefer whole factors more, like 4x
2019-12-28T01:07:24 < Cracki> you did that floppy thing right?
2019-12-28T01:07:31 < catphish> so by that logic, a change in phase must somehow represent the mixing of a *higher*frequency
2019-12-28T01:07:31 < Cracki> that's "time domain"
2019-12-28T01:07:45 < Cracki> no, phase and freq are independeny of each other
2019-12-28T01:07:59 < catphish> i can't quite get my head around that
2019-12-28T01:08:31 < Cracki> your reasoning looks faulty
2019-12-28T01:08:32 < catphish> i guess nyquist totally ignores phase in that case
2019-12-28T01:08:39 < Cracki> yes, it ignores that
2019-12-28T01:08:55 < Cracki> well not quite
2019-12-28T01:09:03 < catphish> but... it *is* possible to represent changes in phase in a digitally encoded signal
2019-12-28T01:09:12 < Cracki> call up a graph of a sine curve
2019-12-28T01:09:20 < catphish> by using a much higher sampling rate
2019-12-28T01:09:29 < Cracki> sampling at nyquist frequency would mean sampling two times per period
2019-12-28T01:09:38 < mawk> what do you mean by change in phase exactly catphish ?
2019-12-28T01:09:43 < Cracki> if you sampled, accidentally, not at the peaks but at the zero crossings, you'd be fucked
2019-12-28T01:09:45 < mawk> it's just a delay for a sine
2019-12-28T01:10:00 < Cracki> it's not about representation
2019-12-28T01:10:07 < Cracki> it's about what you can reconstruct from how much data
2019-12-28T01:10:22 < mawk> in signal theory the signals are supposed infinite
2019-12-28T01:10:24 < mawk> at least in the foundations
2019-12-28T01:10:25 < Cracki> look at aliasing
2019-12-28T01:10:29 < mawk> so you don't care much about phase I guess
2019-12-28T01:11:19 < catphish> you're right, sampling at exacly 2n, you'd risk hitting the zero crossing!
2019-12-28T01:12:28 < catphish> i'm struggling to find an example of a signal with a phase shift in it
2019-12-28T01:12:33 < mawk> and what don't you trust about the theorem catphish exactly ? the fact that 100% reconstruction is possible below the Nyquist frequency, or the fact it is not possible above it ?
2019-12-28T01:12:47 < mawk> f(t) = sin(t), f(t) = sin(t-1)
2019-12-28T01:13:08 < catphish> mawk: the 100% reconstruction is that part that seems counterintuitive
2019-12-28T01:13:24 < catphish> i know it works, it just dosn't seem obvious at all
2019-12-28T01:13:41 < Cracki> what is your understanding of "100% reconstruction"
2019-12-28T01:13:48 < mawk> well if you can take 1 sample per half wave and you know the signal is a sine, you can obviously reconstruct it no ?
2019-12-28T01:13:50 < mawk> even by hand
2019-12-28T01:13:55 < mawk> or like 2 samples per half wave
2019-12-28T01:13:55 < Cracki> say you sample one sine period with four or more points
2019-12-28T01:13:57 < mawk> that's all
2019-12-28T01:13:58 < catphish> if you drew the points on graph paper and told someone to fill in the waveform
2019-12-28T01:14:02 < catphish> it's just not that obvious
2019-12-28T01:14:26 < Cracki> how?
2019-12-28T01:14:32 < catphish> mawk: but you don't know the signal is a sine, that's the problem
2019-12-28T01:14:39 < Cracki> you have the points, you know the sine has to be below nyquist freq
2019-12-28T01:14:42 < catphish> it may have any number of lower frequencies included
2019-12-28T01:14:45 < Cracki> you DO know it's a sine
2019-12-28T01:14:53 < Cracki> that's the basic assumption
2019-12-28T01:14:57 < Cracki> (shifted) sine.
2019-12-28T01:15:03 < Cracki> sine always means oscillation
2019-12-28T01:15:16 < Cracki> addition doesn't change things
2019-12-28T01:15:18 < mawk> you use superposition catphish
2019-12-28T01:15:23 < catphish> it's not a sine, it's mixture of signals of lower frequencies
2019-12-28T01:15:32 < mawk> you assume the total signal is a sum of sines
2019-12-28T01:15:36 < mawk> and you work on individual pure sines
2019-12-28T01:15:40 < mawk> you always do that, even in physics
2019-12-28T01:15:40 < Cracki> now we're getting into fourier
2019-12-28T01:15:43 < mawk> it's a fundamenal idea
2019-12-28T01:15:49 < catphish> sure, but again, it's not intuitive
2019-12-28T01:15:59 < Cracki> look at fourier
2019-12-28T01:16:05 < Cracki> not the dude, what he said
2019-12-28T01:16:05 < mawk> to analyze how electric field looks, you analyze charge per charge, and sum up the result
2019-12-28T01:16:17 < mawk> well the physical world is pretty linear often
2019-12-28T01:16:23 < Cracki> you can decompose a signal into a sum of sines
2019-12-28T01:16:38 < Cracki> even a square wave signal
2019-12-28T01:16:46 < Cracki> it's an infinite sum of sines
2019-12-28T01:16:56 < catphish> this is the type of signal i'm talking about https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/5/55/DBQPSK_timing_diag_fixed.png
2019-12-28T01:17:10 < catphish> fixed freuqnency, fixed amplitude, but phase changes
2019-12-28T01:17:14 < Cracki> ah those fuckers
2019-12-28T01:17:22 < mawk> it doesn't look fixed frequency
2019-12-28T01:17:26 < mawk> more like infinite frequency
2019-12-28T01:17:27 < mawk> at some points
2019-12-28T01:17:34 < Cracki> that plot is bullshit
2019-12-28T01:17:35 < catphish> that was my point!
2019-12-28T01:17:45 < Cracki> whatever they sample never looks like that
2019-12-28T01:17:50 < mawk> yes in reality it is not abrupt like this
2019-12-28T01:17:54 < mawk> there's a given slew rate
2019-12-28T01:17:55 < catphish> <catphish> well i assume (rightly or wrongly) that a phase shift in a sine wave can be represented as a function of other frequencies mixed together
2019-12-28T01:18:09 < mawk> no that's not right
2019-12-28T01:18:13 < mawk> as Cracki said
2019-12-28T01:18:24 < mawk> a sine wave is a sine wave, shifed or not
2019-12-28T01:18:30 < catphish> so how does one define that phase shift in the frequency domain?
2019-12-28T01:18:33 < mawk> the shift is not very important, it's supposed to be eternal
2019-12-28T01:18:47 < mawk> using the complex component I guess
2019-12-28T01:18:49 < mawk> or whatever
2019-12-28T01:18:56 < catphish> you can't just pretend it doesn't exist
2019-12-28T01:19:04 < Cracki> "so how does one define that color in the intensity domain"
2019-12-28T01:19:05 < catphish> there must be other frequencies involved
2019-12-28T01:19:12 < mawk> no, no other frequencies
2019-12-28T01:19:27 < mawk> sin(wt + phi) is pulsation w for any phase phi you can think of
2019-12-28T01:19:30 < Cracki> you ask for something that's impossible. you only seem to think that it's possible.
2019-12-28T01:19:35 < mawk> only one frequency
2019-12-28T01:19:53 < Cracki> let's take that picture
2019-12-28T01:20:02 < Cracki> that signal is time-varying
2019-12-28T01:20:04 < mawk> a phase is a delay catphish
2019-12-28T01:20:10 < mawk> delaying a signal doesn't change its frequency
2019-12-28T01:20:18 < Cracki> it's not one eternal sine
2019-12-28T01:21:07 < catphish> it's tricky, because i can imagine, the shift being represented by a pulse of a higher frequency, but the ongoing signal is the confusing part
2019-12-28T01:21:39 < Cracki> here's what you can do:
2019-12-28T01:21:54 < Cracki> take a jupyter notebook, build a signal, then have a fourier transform done on it
2019-12-28T01:22:09 < Cracki> build like np.array([-1, +1, -1, ...])
2019-12-28T01:22:38 < mawk> but why do you keep saying higher frequency catphish
2019-12-28T01:22:46 < mawk> a shifted signal doesn't change the frequency
2019-12-28T01:22:58 < mawk> phase === delay
2019-12-28T01:23:04 < Cracki> look at https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Square_wave#/media/File:Fourier_series_for_square_wave.gif
2019-12-28T01:23:12 < mawk> the phase of sin(at+b) is the constant b
2019-12-28T01:23:29 < Cracki> I think he's trying to build that signal he posted
2019-12-28T01:24:00 < mawk> ah
2019-12-28T01:24:02 < Cracki> if they didn't draw it so retarded, it would be obvious that at two points you DO need a higher frequency or else that part just gets swallowed
2019-12-28T01:24:21 < mawk> yes, that's not what a phase is, in this drawing
2019-12-28T01:24:27 < Cracki> square wave from base sines: http://mathworld.wolfram.com/FourierSeriesSquareWave.html
2019-12-28T01:24:55 < Cracki> I hate those "DSP" drawings where they imply they can determine phase from just one period
2019-12-28T01:25:43 < mawk> if the phase changes then it's not a sine wave
2019-12-28T01:25:47 < mawk> and not a phase, I guess
2019-12-28T01:26:08 < doomba> it's just a phase, mawk
2019-12-28T01:26:13 < mawk> lol
2019-12-28T01:26:16 < catphish> Cracki: sorry, yes, i think my comment is about rebuilding the signal i pastes
2019-12-28T01:26:19 < doomba> we'll be out of it soon, once google has total control
2019-12-28T01:26:35 < catphish> ie how to *reconstruct* a signal with a phase shift in it
2019-12-28T01:26:48 < mawk> if you stop calling it a phase shift everything will become clear catphish
2019-12-28T01:26:51 < Steffanx> Not a phase? That's why they called it Phase Shift Keying?
2019-12-28T01:26:54 < mawk> we are not in the linear realm
2019-12-28T01:27:06 < catphish> what is it if not a phase shift?
2019-12-28T01:27:14 < mawk> yes it's like stitching a shifted sine together
2019-12-28T01:27:50 < mawk> when you construct it
2019-12-28T01:27:58 < Steffanx> Where is BrainDamage when you need him?
2019-12-28T01:28:36 < mawk> but when you analyze it it's different
2019-12-28T01:29:03 < Cracki> personally it would help me to believe this PSK stuff if someone could show me how they physically detect the phase shift within a period
2019-12-28T01:29:14 < catphish> another way to look at it... what bandwidth would this "phase shifted" sine wave consume if transmitted
2019-12-28T01:29:38 < catphish> i assume more than 0Hz
2019-12-28T01:29:46 < catphish> depending on how often it's shifted
2019-12-28T01:30:57 < catphish> but maybe not, i fear i'm straying into the "light as a wave vs light as a particle" realm now
2019-12-28T01:31:31 < catphish> another example: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Phase_modulation#/media/File:Phase-modulation.gif
2019-12-28T01:32:05 < catphish> the green signal clearly includes higher frequency components
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2019-12-28T01:33:06 < catphish> but this is a different (not instantaneous) example
2019-12-28T01:33:17 < thardin> you mix it with a recovered carrier
2019-12-28T01:33:58 < thardin> like, assume you have the carrier somehow
2019-12-28T01:34:11 < Cracki> so analog stuff
2019-12-28T01:34:46 < catphish> the question though was about how phase modulation would be represented in a digital signal, given that it's only a single frequency changing phase
2019-12-28T01:34:47 < thardin> then just conjugating either one anz mixing nulls moves the signal back down to baseband
2019-12-28T01:35:11 < thardin> rx or tx?
2019-12-28T01:35:19 < Cracki> catphish, digital like a wav file?
2019-12-28T01:35:24 < catphish> Cracki: yes
2019-12-28T01:35:29 < Cracki> just like it's graphed in that picture you posted
2019-12-28T01:35:32 < mawk> then like on your wikipedia drawing
2019-12-28T01:35:44 < mawk> a bunch of samples points
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2019-12-28T01:36:35 < catphish> and what sampling frequency would be required to accurately represent / reconstruct it?
2019-12-28T01:36:55 < catphish> (the original comment was about nyquist)
2019-12-28T01:37:27 < mawk> I guess there are tolerance specifications for the slew rate at the phase change
2019-12-28T01:37:28 < mawk> you use that
2019-12-28T01:38:07 < catphish> i suppose the most obvious question is how accurately you need to represent phase in the first place
2019-12-28T01:38:08 < thardin> how fast the phase changes impacts things like ISI
2019-12-28T01:38:56 < catphish> i suppose nyquist represents a frequency with 100% loss in representation of phase
2019-12-28T01:39:07 < mawk> nyquist is just a theorem about when you can do it
2019-12-28T01:39:23 < catphish> but at higher sampling rates, you can represent some idea of the phase
2019-12-28T01:39:59 < catphish> obviously if you sample at 100x the frequency, you can see the phase (and changes in it)
2019-12-28T01:40:03 < thardin> it's not super hard to work out the width of a PM signal. you use bessel functions IIRC
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2019-12-28T01:40:10 < thardin> it's quite similar to FM
2019-12-28T01:40:29 < mawk> you can call it a discontinuity maybe catphish , not a phase change
2019-12-28T01:40:34 < catphish> thardin: i suspect that's the answer i'm after, FM and PM do seem very similar
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2019-12-28T01:40:46 < thardin> but if you have a 1 MHz carrier and the PM is 1 kHz wide at baseband then you'll need a bit more than 2.002 Msps
2019-12-28T01:40:55 < mawk> then you see it's clear that if the discontinuity is really a discontinuity, there is no sampling frequency capable of representing this to 100%
2019-12-28T01:41:16 < thardin> or you need to mix it down so you can sample it with a slower ADC (but it still needs to be at least 2 ksps)
2019-12-28T01:41:25 < catphish> mawk: i agree, with phase, everything digital will be an approximation
2019-12-28T01:42:08 < thardin> just use some existing PSK demodulator. there's one in fldigi, gnuradio and probably a bunch more
2019-12-28T01:42:10 < catphish> so it's an arbitrary time discontinuation
2019-12-28T01:42:27 < thardin> if you really want to get into it there's books on software modem design
2019-12-28T01:42:43 < catphish> gnuradio will probably show it niely
2019-12-28T01:42:57 < thardin> the phases don't change the way the wikipedia article draws it
2019-12-28T01:43:02 < thardin> since the signal is bandlimited
2019-12-28T01:44:09 < catphish> right, it's a gradual change
2019-12-28T01:44:19 < mawk> yes
2019-12-28T01:44:30 < mawk> but even with no discontinuity a gradual change can have infinitely many harmonics
2019-12-28T01:44:34 < catphish> more like my second example, even on a digital signal
2019-12-28T01:44:38 < catphish> like this: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Phase_modulation#/media/File:Phase-modulation.gif
2019-12-28T01:44:45 < thardin> mawk: yes
2019-12-28T01:45:12 < catphish> even with 2 sine waves it looks messy
2019-12-28T01:45:13 < thardin> in reality there's no such things as zero bandwidth, or a perfect filter or even DC
2019-12-28T01:45:27 < catphish> there's definitely DC
2019-12-28T01:45:50 < thardin> hard no on that
2019-12-28T01:46:04 < thardin> try to maintain something at exactly 1 Volt for eternity
2019-12-28T01:46:18 < catphish> well, eternity is trickier
2019-12-28T01:46:26 < thardin> 1 Volt is also tricky :)
2019-12-28T01:47:05 < thardin> I get into these kinds of problems at uni
2019-12-28T01:47:18 < catphish> nah, it's easy, just pass one amp through a 1 ohm resistor ;)
2019-12-28T01:47:21 < thardin> sometimes the laser people drop by with questions
2019-12-28T01:48:08 < catphish> "the laser people"
2019-12-28T01:48:15 < thardin> yes. laser researchers
2019-12-28T01:48:31 < thardin> spectroscopy mostly
2019-12-28T01:48:31 < catphish> i like lasers
2019-12-28T01:48:49 < thardin> a laser is just a really fast radio
2019-12-28T01:49:04 < catphish> tried to build a data transmitter with them, realised i lacked the necessary skill
2019-12-28T01:49:18 < catphish> i suppose i probably needed a laser receiver, do those exist?
2019-12-28T01:49:26 < thardin> yes
2019-12-28T01:49:31 < thardin> they're called photodiodes
2019-12-28T01:49:42 < thardin> you can get 'em with bandwidths up in the GHz range
2019-12-28T01:49:54 < catphish> can you get them sensitive to one frequency?
2019-12-28T01:50:09 < thardin> what do you mean?
2019-12-28T01:50:23 < thardin> you may need to filter before your signal gets to it
2019-12-28T01:50:27 < thardin> using say a cavity
2019-12-28T01:50:44 < catphish> well, my problem trying to design a laser data transmitter was that the receiver collected ambient light
2019-12-28T01:50:49 < thardin> or use nonlinear optics and another laser to get it down to RF
2019-12-28T01:51:07 < thardin> you'll want to use a filter at the very least
2019-12-28T01:51:10 < mawk> DC means the voltage is constant since negative infinity
2019-12-28T01:51:12 < mawk> so indeed there's no DC
2019-12-28T01:51:14 < mawk> only approximations
2019-12-28T01:51:28 < mawk> but you're lucky, infinity is approximated by lowish numbers
2019-12-28T01:51:36 < catphish> a filter on the receiver is almost certainly what i was missing then
2019-12-28T01:51:45 < mawk> infinity is 30 in probability, a few hundred meters in optics, etc
2019-12-28T01:51:50 < thardin> yes. a photodiode is about as wide as the side of a barn
2019-12-28T01:52:24 < catphish> i'd wondered if a photodiode could be bought that only responded to a specific frequency
2019-12-28T01:52:25 < thardin> the narrower your filter and narrower your tx the less noise gets in
2019-12-28T01:52:30 < thardin> -> higher SNR
2019-12-28T01:52:46 < mawk> you could coat it I guess
2019-12-28T01:52:54 < catphish> i suppose then that i want both a filter, and a directional guide
2019-12-28T01:52:55 < mawk> like those fire détection photodiodes
2019-12-28T01:53:06 < catphish> (ie a tube)
2019-12-28T01:53:57 < catphish> and maybe a lens
2019-12-28T01:54:07 < thardin> catphish: look up SONJA
2019-12-28T01:54:23 < catphish> Queen Sonja of Norway?
2019-12-28T01:54:34 < thardin> no the visible light communication thing
2019-12-28T01:55:00 < thardin> RONJA even
2019-12-28T01:55:01 < thardin> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/RONJA
2019-12-28T01:55:01 < catphish> that certainly sounds like what i was gong for
2019-12-28T01:55:34 < jadew> sup? what's this about?
2019-12-28T01:56:03 < catphish> porn mostly
2019-12-28T01:56:12 < jadew> good, I like porn
2019-12-28T01:56:15 < catphish> and lasers
2019-12-28T01:56:17 < jadew> tell me more
2019-12-28T01:56:25 < jadew> sounded like it started with something else
2019-12-28T01:56:33 < jadew> but TL;DR
2019-12-28T01:56:57 < catphish> there was a long pointless discussion about nyquist and phase shift keying
2019-12-28T01:57:09 < catphish> you can ignore that part
2019-12-28T01:57:14 < jadew> why was it pointless?
2019-12-28T01:58:01 < catphish> because i don't think i learned anything
2019-12-28T01:58:25 < thardin> sleep time
2019-12-28T01:58:43 < catphish> good idea
2019-12-28T01:58:43 < jadew> what were you trying to find out?
2019-12-28T01:59:27 < catphish> nothing
2019-12-28T01:59:40 < catphish> i suppose that's why it was pontless
2019-12-28T01:59:44 < catphish> there was no aim to it
2019-12-28T01:59:55 < catphish> no "point" as it were
2019-12-28T02:00:10 < ub|k> Cracki: sorry for the lack of response
2019-12-28T02:00:38 < jadew> catphish, that's great, so you don't have any unanswered questions :P
2019-12-28T02:00:47 < ub|k> I just realized something weird. There's a DC offset right after C36 and C37
2019-12-28T02:01:04 < catphish> jadew: technically true
2019-12-28T02:02:29 < ub|k> actually, only after C36 (left side)
2019-12-28T02:02:36 < ub|k> 0.5V
2019-12-28T02:02:42 < Steffanx> Arent you glad it was all logged catphish ?
2019-12-28T02:03:01 < ub|k> maybe the cap is broken? Still, not sure how that would add to the DC offset
2019-12-28T02:04:59 < catphish> Steffanx: might as well keep such ramblings cataloged for future generations to ponder over
2019-12-28T02:05:24 < Steffanx> Absolutely
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2019-12-28T02:20:19 < ub|k> Cracki: https://mega.nz/#!OgtXgCzZ!eqadFr81w8jVpJekuXP2lfo_4U537GXmY-OjbyJlS0s
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2019-12-28T02:20:24 < ub|k> (at 12MHz)
2019-12-28T02:21:08 < Cracki> you can try it yourself if you have sigrok-cli (needs to be fairly recent, no debian stale package)
2019-12-28T02:21:09 < ub|k> gotta go now, ping me if you think of something
2019-12-28T02:21:12 < Cracki> k
2019-12-28T02:21:28 < ub|k> Cracki: I do have sigrok
2019-12-28T02:21:42 < ub|k> if you can pass me the command
2019-12-28T02:22:46 < ub|k> i mean, you can post it on here, I'll try it out later
2019-12-28T02:22:53 < ub|k> thanks a lot for your help!
2019-12-28T02:24:43 < Cracki> sigrok-cli -i codec_i2s_v2.sr -P i2s:sck=I2S_SCK:ws=I2S_LRCK:sd=I2S_SIN -B i2s > codec_i2s_v2.wav
2019-12-28T02:24:53 < Cracki> this should work, but the PD isn't fault-tolerant enough
2019-12-28T02:52:13 < Cracki> ub|k, that stuff looks like it's using 48 bits per frame?
2019-12-28T03:03:16 < Cracki> there's an offset of -0.1 full range in the data.
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2019-12-28T03:04:01 < Cracki> in the first 0.3 seconds I can see something decaying from -1.0 to -0.1
2019-12-28T03:05:15 < Cracki> otherwise it's absolutely silent. I have some spikes/glitches in my wav file. that may be because I had to fuck around with sigrok's decoder to shift those 48 bits back to 32 bit
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2019-12-28T05:37:42 < jadew> this is absolutely depressing: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=In6VqiHL7rM
2019-12-28T05:39:32 < jadew> it makes pursuing metal working as a hobby, not fun anymore
2019-12-28T05:40:12 < jadew> also, I need to clean my lab
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2019-12-28T06:17:16 < Cracki> wat
2019-12-28T06:17:36 < Cracki> dude has money to spare and bought a bunch of used machines
2019-12-28T06:17:42 < Cracki> you "just" need money to spare
2019-12-28T06:17:55 < Cracki> and you need that stuff to earn you money
2019-12-28T06:18:18 < Cracki> maybe start apprenticing at a local metal shop
2019-12-28T06:19:02 < Cracki> hah ze german akzent
2019-12-28T06:22:00 < Cracki> in 2011 the dude pulled someone out of a burning car https://programm.ard.de/TV/Programm/Sender/?sendung=281136343410097
2019-12-28T06:22:29 < Cracki> two women got scorched because one smoked a cigarette while the other needed to use hair spray
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2019-12-28T10:58:20 < Thorn> https://www.instagram.com/p/B6i6fp4BOPG/
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2019-12-28T12:03:11 < ub|k> Cracki: I get a bunch of errors trying to decode it
2019-12-28T12:03:21 < ub|k> Received 29-bit word, expected 1-bit word... etc
2019-12-28T12:03:44 < ub|k> and what do you mean by "offset"?
2019-12-28T12:05:04 < ub|k> oh, my bad. I had pasted the command wrong
2019-12-28T12:05:26 < ub|k> still, getting a Python error
2019-12-28T12:05:37 < ub|k> struct.error: 'I' format requires 0 <= number <= 4294967295
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2019-12-28T12:06:27 < ub|k> I guess the codec is busted
2019-12-28T12:07:02 < ub|k> I also noticed that at one of the inputs there is a DC offset of 0.5V, right after a capacitor
2019-12-28T12:07:16 < ub|k> If I disconnect the codec pin, the signal is fine
2019-12-28T12:07:30 < ub|k> it's as if the codec is "injecting" 0.5V on the line?
2019-12-28T12:08:23 < ub|k> i've ordered a new one. i hope the board survives resoldering
2019-12-28T12:33:30 < thardin> https://streaming.media.ccc.de/36c3/hallc reliable electronics
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2019-12-28T13:08:27 < srk> pretty cool
2019-12-28T13:17:40 < Steffanx> No one here to 36C3?
2019-12-28T13:22:24 < PaulFertser> That's for SJWs and other hippies, pros do not want to hang out there.
2019-12-28T13:22:52 < Steffanx> i cannot believe that mr PaulFertser
2019-12-28T13:23:24 < Steffanx> That talk thardin referred to is too serious for the average SJW
2019-12-28T13:25:12 < PaulFertser> Steffanx: you know one guy there was talking about how he reversed Xilinx FPGAs so that they can be added to arachne-pnr or something like that, and when asked what he normally uses for FPGA project he said he doesn't do any projects and not interested in actually using FPGAs. That level of autism is not something this channel appreciates.
2019-12-28T13:25:46 < PaulFertser> Most of the people there are like that. Masturbating rather than getting the work done.
2019-12-28T13:26:47 < PaulFertser> If you count the percentage of GNU/Linux users there you'll see why no sane and productive person like dongs ever visits that event.
2019-12-28T13:26:51 < Steffanx> To citate someone here: Its the journey not the result.
2019-12-28T13:27:41 < Steffanx> Damn, what got inside of you PaulFertser? Was is ##stm32? Or did you get reborn? Your negativity is baaad.
2019-12-28T13:29:36 < PaulFertser> Steffanx: I'm trying to look at the world through the dongs' eyes. Should make me more productive or happy.
2019-12-28T13:30:25 < Steffanx> That last part im not so sure of. productive sure.
2019-12-28T13:31:28 < PaulFertser> dongs seems to be pretty happy
2019-12-28T13:33:27 < Steffanx> You seemed happy, before ;)
2019-12-28T13:33:33 < Steffanx> Nothing is what it seems on irc.
2019-12-28T13:36:19 < sync> yes Steffanx
2019-12-28T13:36:22 < PaulFertser> IRC is deceiving, gotta remember that.
2019-12-28T13:36:23 < sync> I'm at 36c3
2019-12-28T13:36:27 < thardin> there's something interesting about using autism as an insult on irc
2019-12-28T13:36:33 < Steffanx> sync you f*cking sjw :P
2019-12-28T13:36:39 < sync> :3
2019-12-28T13:36:49 < PaulFertser> thardin: meta-meta, heh
2019-12-28T13:37:02 < thardin> irc isn't /g/
2019-12-28T13:37:07 < Steffanx> thardin: Yeah that insult is getting old
2019-12-28T13:37:45 < srk> old as irc
2019-12-28T13:38:33 < Steffanx> Is it? It only started the last few years.. it seems to me
2019-12-28T13:38:33 < thardin> gotta watch the libresilicon talk
2019-12-28T13:38:39 < PaulFertser> That said, the amout of non-technical talks on CCC was monotonically increasing for the last years, right?
2019-12-28T13:38:44 < sync> yes
2019-12-28T13:38:49 < thardin> "oh no"
2019-12-28T13:39:34 < thardin> you just accused ccc of being full of autists
2019-12-28T13:39:38 < thardin> like
2019-12-28T13:39:41 < thardin> pick a side :]
2019-12-28T13:40:34 < PaulFertser> thardin: btw, in my message I think I used "autism" without any specific judgement, hence it's not an insult, just a way to state the facts.
2019-12-28T13:41:12 < thardin> [X] Doubt
2019-12-28T13:41:20 < thardin> anywho, lots of interesting talks
2019-12-28T13:41:30 < thardin> these things are social events as well
2019-12-28T13:41:36 < thardin> like demoparties
2019-12-28T13:43:00 < PaulFertser> Steffanx: I'm also envy because you EU fellow friends want to treat me as a criminal and potential illegal immigrant and so I can't just buy a plane ticket and go listen to the talks live.
2019-12-28T13:43:17 < Steffanx> Blame putin :P
2019-12-28T13:43:26 < PaulFertser> I do!
2019-12-28T13:44:12 < PaulFertser> But I also do not like collective responsibility. If I did nothing wrong why do you make me suffer, is it fair?
2019-12-28T13:50:52 < Steffanx> Its not because of you but because of your russian nationality... cant you change that?
2019-12-28T13:51:45 < BrainDamage> people discriminating on nationality is as ancient as the history of humanity
2019-12-28T13:52:52 < BrainDamage> also, the thing is mutual, I'd need rather complex visas to visit russia
2019-12-28T13:53:51 < PaulFertser> Steffanx: not nationality, citizenship
2019-12-28T13:55:24 < Steffanx> Right.
2019-12-28T13:56:01 < PaulFertser> Steffanx: hire me, then after living and working in the NL for 5 or 6 year _and_ learning the language to a decent level I might be able to change the citizenship, heh.
2019-12-28T13:56:14 < Steffanx> We can get married as well? :P
2019-12-28T13:56:43 < PaulFertser> Probably, if you're not married yet, and I divorse.
2019-12-28T13:57:20 < PaulFertser> divorce
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2019-12-28T17:04:05 < Thorn> is delta modulation the same thing as PDM?
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2019-12-28T17:05:11 < Thorn> brainfuck computer live stream https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kuoVp4o0ClQ
2019-12-28T17:07:21 < jpa-> Thorn: some sigma-delta modulators use more than 1-bit output
2019-12-28T17:08:08 < jpa-> but yeah, 1-bit delta modulation is same as PDM; though the noise shaping used by the modulator can vary
2019-12-28T17:10:09 < jpa-> (well, i guess there is also that just saying "delta modulation" doesn't say delta from what, instead of integrator / noise shaper, the modulator could use a mode complex predictor model and encode the delta from that)
2019-12-28T17:12:35 < Thorn> (https://hackaday.io/project/18599-brainfuckpc-relay-computer)
2019-12-28T17:22:42 < Steffanx> privjet.
2019-12-28T18:08:24 < Cracki> ub|k, the 0.5V offset may be a feature, or something the circuitry does. you certainly should check how you configure the codec. I got 48 bit words per channel
2019-12-28T18:10:16 < Cracki> it's either that or the clock is generated weirdly
2019-12-28T18:10:54 < Cracki> so perhaps your mcu config is broken
2019-12-28T18:11:00 < Cracki> not sure which side generates i2s clock
2019-12-28T18:11:24 < Cracki> codec can do - Master or Slave Clocking Mode
2019-12-28T18:14:53 < Cracki> LRclock may be wrong
2019-12-28T18:25:02 < englishman> Steffanx: I'd go but it's in Germany
2019-12-28T18:26:00 < englishman> but I always check out the interesting and non German talks
2019-12-28T18:26:43 < Steffanx> Doesnt your wife want to go on a trip to germany, englishman?
2019-12-28T18:26:55 < englishman> no, probably Colombia next
2019-12-28T18:27:20 < Steffanx> hm
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2019-12-28T18:32:20 < englishman> nice, a new 3ds hacking talk
2019-12-28T18:34:25 < englishman> hmm a bunch of really great titles
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2019-12-28T22:30:40 < qyx> bga rework stencil set has arrived
2019-12-28T22:33:10 < qyx> https://bin.jvnv.net/file/GnE05.jpg
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2019-12-28T22:37:15 < BrainDamage> what do you plan to use as jig to hold them?
2019-12-28T22:42:08 < qyx> nothing, I plan to use them to apply paste to the PCB when hand soldering
2019-12-28T22:43:05 < qyx> full pcb stencil would be better though
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2019-12-28T22:52:12 < Steffanx> PaulFertser: arent you surprised mr d had been quiet all day long? You'd almost think he's in germany :D
2019-12-28T22:54:01 < BrainDamage> I bet he's at comiket
2019-12-28T23:04:44 < PaulFertser> Steffanx: lol
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2019-12-28T23:25:02 < qyx> https://www.fossmint.com/free-mind-mapping-software-for-linux/
2019-12-28T23:25:06 < qyx> what does freemium mean
2019-12-28T23:28:01 < mawk> with a pro version
2019-12-28T23:29:25 < PaulFertser> qyx: freemium is most common with modern games, it's free to play but then one is tempted to pay for this or that cool feature.
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--- Day changed Sun Dec 29 2019
2019-12-29T01:15:04 < bitmask> cant believe ive never used c++ templates before, I gotta figure out how to do this
2019-12-29T01:15:57 < Thorn> bitmask: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vwrXHznaYLA
2019-12-29T01:16:07 < bitmask> ty
2019-12-29T01:16:25 < Thorn> somewhat obsolete by now if you're using c++17+ but still the best intro I've found
2019-12-29T01:16:44 < bitmask> I understand the idea, just not sure the proper way to utilize them in my case
2019-12-29T01:17:04 < bitmask> any idea what c++ version arduino uses :P
2019-12-29T01:19:15 < Thorn> not a question I'd want to know the answer to
2019-12-29T01:19:24 < bitmask> heh
2019-12-29T01:19:44 < doomba> you're using arduino?
2019-12-29T01:19:52 < bitmask> for this project yea
2019-12-29T01:19:59 < doomba> i thought it was atmega644p
2019-12-29T01:20:02 < bitmask> it is
2019-12-29T01:20:19 < bitmask> MightyCore
2019-12-29T01:20:28 < bitmask> has support for various mcus
2019-12-29T01:20:44 < doomba> mightcore arduino core
2019-12-29T01:21:39 < bitmask> I chose the atmega644pa because I didnt want to rewrite my code that I did for the arduino nano, I ended up rewriting pretty much everything anyway
2019-12-29T01:21:54 < bitmask> moved from c to c++
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2019-12-29T01:22:21 < doomba> using arduino IDE?
2019-12-29T01:22:36 < bitmask> yea
2019-12-29T01:22:45 < doomba> yuck
2019-12-29T01:22:48 < bitmask> it simple enough that it doesnt matter
2019-12-29T01:23:00 < bitmask> if this project was complex I woulda changed
2019-12-29T01:23:40 < doomba> i'm so glad arduino ide is java, which is a capital offense to run on my machine
2019-12-29T01:24:47 < bitmask> if you don't want to run something then dont run it, no need for a silly reason :P
2019-12-29T01:26:26 < doomba> i3wm
2019-12-29T01:26:33 < doomba> i3wm + arduino ide don't get along
2019-12-29T01:26:43 < mawk> why arduino ide tho
2019-12-29T01:26:53 < mawk> are you not a true hipster ?
2019-12-29T01:27:04 < doomba> yeah real hipsters use platform IO, bitmask
2019-12-29T01:27:16 < bitmask> who cares, it works fine
2019-12-29T01:27:16 < doomba> come over here and we'll crack IPAs and i'll show you how to use it.
2019-12-29T01:27:30 < doomba> then we'll talk about all the things we did before they were cool
2019-12-29T01:31:21 < Steffanx> True homies
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2019-12-29T01:32:15 < kakisemipro> lurencebox
2019-12-29T01:32:25 < Laurenceb> I will rebuild physics. And first of all, I will prove that the photon does not carry momentum. No experiments are needed here. I will just destroy the honour of those who believe that it is.
2019-12-29T01:32:39 < Laurenceb> Their own families will kill them
2019-12-29T01:32:41 < kakisemipro> you have high ambitions
2019-12-29T01:32:45 < Laurenceb> ikr
2019-12-29T01:32:52 < kakisemipro> how is dole?
2019-12-29T01:32:58 < Laurenceb> no dole for me
2019-12-29T01:33:05 < kakisemipro> me neather
2019-12-29T01:33:07 < kakisemipro> yet
2019-12-29T01:33:08 < Laurenceb> I have too many savings to qualify
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2019-12-29T02:41:13 < qyx> who was the guy with stm8 in SO8?
2019-12-29T02:41:29 < qyx> hey, theres G0 in SO8
2019-12-29T02:44:18 < qyx> I am curious if it is possible to fit 3 SMPS in this piece of awesomeness
2019-12-29T02:45:02 < qyx> (boost led driver, buck liion charger)
2019-12-29T02:45:07 < qyx> 2 at least
2019-12-29T03:03:39 < emeb_mac> gah - that g030 in S08N pkg looks like a horrible kludge
2019-12-29T03:05:01 < emeb_mac> just use the 20-pin tssop - same board area and more pins / less stupid muxing
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2019-12-29T03:29:44 < mawk> I found my new project Steffanx
2019-12-29T03:29:55 < mawk> BIOS setup menu, without being in the BIOS setup menu
2019-12-29T03:30:01 < mawk> so that all hidden options are shown
2019-12-29T03:30:07 < mawk> maybe html based or whatever
2019-12-29T03:30:16 < mawk> I'm reading the UEFI specification
2019-12-29T03:51:44 < Jak_o_Shadows> How does it normally go repgoramming chips already in products?
2019-12-29T03:52:05 < Jak_o_Shadows> https://www.aliexpress.com/item/4000517063107.html?spm=a2g0o.productlist.0.0.3576195dHIE5BP&algo_pvid=5700a6f5-a2d1-4967-bbab-86bddd49c6d8&algo_expid=5700a6f5-a2d1-4967-bbab-86bddd49c6d8-0&btsid=d4373165-075a-49b7-9caf-a8fedc63144b&ws_ab_test=searchweb0_0,searchweb201602_2,searchweb201603_53 - a STM32F103 with some CAN buses - it'd be a neat board
2019-12-29T03:53:57 < BrainDamage> mawk: iirc there's a few tools for lunix to interface with it
2019-12-29T03:54:07 < BrainDamage> mawk: see efivar
2019-12-29T03:58:26 < kakisemipro> uefi is pretty comprehensive system
2019-12-29T03:59:36 < kakisemipro> what do I know but I know hacking some modules to old uefi bioses is a thing
2019-12-29T03:59:49 < kakisemipro> null>'
2019-12-29T04:02:34 < kakinull> some mr robot now
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2019-12-29T04:06:00 < mawk> yes that's only to manipulate high level efi variables BrainDamage
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2019-12-29T04:06:13 < mawk> like BootNext, Boot0000 and so on
2019-12-29T04:06:29 < mawk> but you see there are variables like Custom or Setup that are very long and just a big bitfield
2019-12-29T04:06:44 < mawk> and the layout of it is unknown, but the goal of my program will be to determine it
2019-12-29T04:06:48 < mawk> from analysis of the UEFI firmware
2019-12-29T04:07:05 < mawk> for instance in the MeSetup variable at offset (for example) 0x30 if you toggle the byte then intel ME is disabled
2019-12-29T04:07:16 < mawk> that's what I got from analysis of my UEFi firmware, and I want to systematize it
2019-12-29T04:07:29 < mawk> 03:06 <mawk> yes that's only to manipulate high level efi variables BrainDamage_
2019-12-29T04:08:14 < mawk> so now I have to scan the setup module of the uefi firmware, it's a PE32 image, find the EFI forms inside it
2019-12-29T04:08:36 < mawk> then execute the virtual machine or whatever to present a beautiful forms browser
2019-12-29T04:09:00 < kakinull> part of ME you can disable right
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2019-12-29T04:10:40 < mawk> not easily kakinull
2019-12-29T04:10:47 < mawk> none of the methods are official or 100% effective
2019-12-29T04:11:09 < kakinull> funtastic
2019-12-29T04:11:24 < BrainDamage> laser drill
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2019-12-29T04:28:11 < englishman> kakisemipro kakinull: saw a perkele bumper sticker todsy
2019-12-29T04:28:21 < kakinull> waat
2019-12-29T04:28:35 < kakinull> with angry hedgehog?
2019-12-29T04:29:19 < kakinull> "kiroileva siili"
2019-12-29T04:30:44 < kakinull> https://www.facebook.com/Kiroilevasiili/photos/a.262526630434715/1646189795401718/?type=3&theater ?
2019-12-29T04:30:49 < englishman> no it was a cheerful logo
2019-12-29T04:30:51 < englishman> I took a pic
2019-12-29T04:31:23 < kakinull> car stickers are not a thing in here
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2019-12-29T05:41:27 < kakinull> sometimes there is a fish symbol
2019-12-29T05:41:56 < kakinull> and sometimes fish with legs
2019-12-29T05:42:26 < kakinull> that is how far the expression goes
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2019-12-29T10:56:57 < PaulFertser> kakinull: https://github.com/corna/me_cleaner
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2019-12-29T11:33:39 < Steffanx> Hah mawk
2019-12-29T11:53:01 < srk> doomba: you can fix java apps and tiling wms with 'wmname LG3D; java app'
2019-12-29T12:09:56 < dongs> qt
2019-12-29T12:09:58 < dongs> wat
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2019-12-29T13:23:17 < zyp> dongs, did you say you've already done some shit with rpi cm?
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2019-12-29T13:37:06 < zyp> wondering what bucks would be good, both for that and other shit
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2019-12-29T13:37:32 < zyp> rpi cm needs a couple watts of 2.5-5V and a couple hundred milliamps each of 3.3V and 1.8V
2019-12-29T13:38:17 < zyp> and I want the input reg to handle at least 24V
2019-12-29T13:39:01 < zyp> so I figure a good solution would be one buck that drops 24V to 5V at a couple of amps, and then another buck that makes 3.3V or 1.8V from 5V
2019-12-29T13:40:07 < Thorn> flyback with multiple secondaries
2019-12-29T13:40:54 < zyp> sounds overly complex, and I figure I want something I can reuse for other shit
2019-12-29T13:46:09 < zyp> I guess I could cheap out and go directly 24->3.3 and 3.3->1.8
2019-12-29T13:47:52 < zyp> but preferably the latter reg should be so cheap and simple that having another wouldn't matter much on the BOM cost
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2019-12-29T13:52:39 < qyx> bleh flyback
2019-12-29T13:52:57 < qyx> zyp: G4 and all in software!
2019-12-29T13:53:13 < qyx> and bootstrap with zener+bjt
2019-12-29T13:53:23 < zyp> haha
2019-12-29T13:53:36 < Steffanx> it seems qyx is in love with the new G-family.
2019-12-29T13:53:45 < qyx> never used any Gx
2019-12-29T13:53:48 < qyx> but I plan to soon
2019-12-29T13:53:49 < Thorn> speaking of g4 https://www.aliexpress.com/item/4000434432372.html
2019-12-29T13:53:52 < qyx> they are awesome
2019-12-29T13:53:56 < Steffanx> heh
2019-12-29T13:54:12 < zyp> qyx, I'm planning to maybe try that on another card
2019-12-29T13:54:16 < Steffanx> Thats even too much for a moneyed westerner Thorn
2019-12-29T13:54:35 < qyx> Thorn: single phase only :/
2019-12-29T13:55:50 < zyp> Thorn, nice
2019-12-29T13:55:53 < qyx> also re: rpi cm, onion omega2s+ looks nicer
2019-12-29T13:56:03 < qyx> and smaller
2019-12-29T13:56:04 < qyx> and pcie
2019-12-29T13:56:17 < Thorn> I'm not sure how that particular board is useful without ope source firmware but you can design something similar with much lower bom cost imo
2019-12-29T13:56:18 < qyx> (not well documented, but hopefully works)
2019-12-29T13:56:28 < zyp> there's a lot of shit that looks nicer than rpi
2019-12-29T13:56:46 < qyx> yeah but community
2019-12-29T13:57:00 < zyp> yes, rpi has the ecosystem advantage
2019-12-29T13:57:01 < qyx> omega2 is openwrt though
2019-12-29T13:57:09 < zyp> grab a premade image, slap it on, go
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2019-12-29T13:58:11 < zyp> hmm
2019-12-29T13:58:25 < zyp> omega2s+ doesn't look nicer at all
2019-12-29T13:58:47 < zyp> is it arm or mips?
2019-12-29T13:59:21 < Steffanx> mips
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2019-12-29T14:00:38 < Steffanx> Doesnt the CM have much more wam, cores etc.
2019-12-29T14:01:06 < zyp> exactly
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2019-12-29T14:16:42 < doomba> the CM doesn't have built-in wifi and stuff tho
2019-12-29T14:18:18 < Steffanx> who needs wifi
2019-12-29T14:18:34 < Steffanx> zyp will just make a esp addon card
2019-12-29T14:19:28 < Steffanx> *an
2019-12-29T14:22:58 < zyp> nah
2019-12-29T14:23:30 < zyp> but possibly some usb wifi chipset
2019-12-29T14:23:35 < qyx> it is mips, but smaller, ~moderate amount of ram and pcie!
2019-12-29T14:23:53 < zyp> what do you need pcie for?
2019-12-29T14:23:54 < qyx> esp8266 should work with sdio
2019-12-29T14:24:13 < qyx> for nvme
2019-12-29T14:24:23 < Steffanx> What you need pcie for? You have pcie slots on you board. lol
2019-12-29T14:24:44 < qyx> it is hard to find a make:r board supporting any of the commercially available SSDs
2019-12-29T14:24:44 < zyp> no, I have usb slots
2019-12-29T14:24:47 < qyx> no sata, no pcie
2019-12-29T14:26:08 < zyp> hmm
2019-12-29T14:26:37 < zyp> speaking of wifi, I might make an adapter card to a minipcie socket (usb mode)
2019-12-29T14:27:09 < zyp> could be used with both lte cards and wifi cards that use usb mode
2019-12-29T14:27:31 < zyp> although I don't know how common the latter is
2019-12-29T14:32:14 < qyx> not very common
2019-12-29T14:32:18 < qyx> if you find one, let me know
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2019-12-29T14:43:57 < qyx> also, there are hardly any 2240/2242 NVMe
2019-12-29T14:48:14 < Steffanx> Yeah only some weird brands or cheap brands
2019-12-29T14:50:28 < Steffanx> or was it sata i needed. i think it was sata
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2019-12-29T14:52:25 < uniqdom> Hello, I'm reading STM32L082xx datasheet and it says that the RTC clock source could be an the internal low-power RC oscillator 37Khz typical (page 25 of https://www.st.com/resource/en/datasheet/stm32l082kb.pdf). Do I just select that source clock? I have only worked with external RTC IC (like DS1307 or DS3132) with 32Khz external crystals
2019-12-29T14:53:37 < uniqdom> wouldn't the internal RTC running with a 37khz clock will be running faster than an RTC running with a 32Khz clock?
2019-12-29T14:54:05 < Thorn> uniqdom: see table 46 in the same document, LSI is very inaccurate
2019-12-29T14:55:40 < BrainDamage> RC oscillators are quite inaccurate, when used as RTC prepare for quite a bit drift long term
2019-12-29T14:55:54 < Steffanx> uniqdom: you have to set up the clock divider for the LSI yourself. So you can make it run as slow/fast as you want it.
2019-12-29T14:55:55 < BrainDamage> the RTC counter is configurable
2019-12-29T14:56:03 < BrainDamage> and the clock divider
2019-12-29T14:56:09 < Steffanx> heh
2019-12-29T14:57:04 < BrainDamage> 32kHz xtals are popular because it's a power of 2, so a simple shift register can be used to derive out the 1s clock
2019-12-29T14:57:41 < uniqdom> Ok I see. So if I go with the LSI and I want an acceptable accurate, I would have to calibrate every board?
2019-12-29T14:58:43 < Cracki> that'd improve the situation but it will still drift depending on temperature and whatever else
2019-12-29T14:58:48 < Thorn> you can't account for drift that way
2019-12-29T14:58:53 < dongs> you could also just slap a 32khz xtal externally
2019-12-29T14:59:00 < BrainDamage> ^
2019-12-29T14:59:04 < Thorn> just use LSE, it's very low power on L0
2019-12-29T15:04:11 < uniqdom> Thanks I will go for LSE.
2019-12-29T15:08:55 < uniqdom> What about the ESR (Equivalent Series Resistance) of the crystal? I'm seeing ranges from 25 to 130k ohm in digikey (https://www.digikey.com/products/en/crystals-oscillators-resonators/crystals/171/page/2?k=32.768)
2019-12-29T15:09:14 < uniqdom> is that an important parameter?
2019-12-29T15:11:47 < Thorn> see AN2867
2019-12-29T15:12:14 < BrainDamage> do you have any timekeeping requirements? if not, go for the cheapest you can find
2019-12-29T15:13:15 < BrainDamage> most xtals will drift by ~0.1s per day
2019-12-29T15:16:10 < uniqdom> that's perfectly fine, thanks
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2019-12-29T15:18:25 < BrainDamage> ops, I misplaced the power of 10, 1ppm is 0.1s/day, most will be 10ppm or so, and the cheapest will be 100
2019-12-29T15:18:48 < dongs> uniqdom: pick FC-135, good xtal and works fine dont need anything
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2019-12-29T15:27:44 < uniqdom> dongs: What do you mean? do I still have to use 2x ~10pF capacitors with it, right?
2019-12-29T15:32:32 < dongs> yeah
2019-12-29T15:32:45 < dongs> but i mean it works, its cheap, and its a common-ish footprint
2019-12-29T15:33:06 < Thorn> dongs: why not SC-32S
2019-12-29T15:33:40 < dongs> isnt that literally same thing
2019-12-29T15:34:55 < uniqdom> oh, ok
2019-12-29T15:38:40 < BrainDamage> did laurenceb brexit the channel?
2019-12-29T15:38:56 < doomba> he's in jail
2019-12-29T15:39:08 < Thorn> he's reducing snr in -offtopic
2019-12-29T15:42:56 < Steffanx> He's not in jail. He is doling.
2019-12-29T15:43:22 < Steffanx> He was here yesterday.
2019-12-29T15:43:52 < doomba> that's the agent they put in his place to infiltrate the stm32-offtopic extremist organization and shut them down
2019-12-29T15:44:25 < Steffanx> Damn, must be very good agent then. It DID sound like the real blaxter.
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2019-12-29T16:09:31 < zyp> dongs, no comment on the buck regs?
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2019-12-29T16:42:48 < zyp> qyx, https://www.jjplus.com/wmu6202/
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2019-12-29T17:39:21 < qyx> zyp: interesting, indeed it doesn't have pcie xonnected
2019-12-29T17:39:38 < qyx> I found some stating pcie/usb interface
2019-12-29T17:39:50 < qyx> which actually meant usb for bt, pcie for wlan
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2019-12-29T20:51:19 < Thorn> are there usb hubs with ulpi upstream interface?
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2019-12-29T20:54:53 < zyp> haven't seen any, but I've seen hubs with hsic upstream interface
2019-12-29T20:55:38 < zyp> making rpi cm schematic symbol, fucking shit has 61 grounds
2019-12-29T21:06:02 < qyx> I would like too, but my size constraints prevent it :S
2019-12-29T21:06:49 < zyp> which size constraints? aren't your boards huge?
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2019-12-29T21:07:17 < Thorn> zynq cheaper than stm32h7 https://www.aliexpress.com/item/32562462491.html
2019-12-29T21:11:54 < Devastator> can someone recommend a good stm starter kit?
2019-12-29T21:12:06 < zyp> any of the discovery boards?
2019-12-29T21:12:07 < Devastator> perhaps one with fk103?
2019-12-29T21:12:24 < zyp> uh
2019-12-29T21:12:47 < zyp> if you're starting out with stm32, I advise against starting with f103
2019-12-29T21:19:51 < Devastator> which one would you recommend instead?
2019-12-29T21:20:56 < zyp> probably anything else, can't be more specific without knowing what you'd use it for
2019-12-29T21:21:43 < zyp> if you're just looking for something to play around with, pick the discovery board that looks the most fun
2019-12-29T21:21:54 < zyp> some of them come with lcd screens and stuff
2019-12-29T21:23:14 < Devastator> my company currently uses pic for product development, I want to switch to arm and stm32 was recommended
2019-12-29T21:23:44 < zyp> pic32, or the old pics?
2019-12-29T21:24:31 < Devastator> dspic and f6041 iirc
2019-12-29T21:25:24 < zyp> okay, I'm not really familiar, but I guess any stm32 would be more capable
2019-12-29T21:26:31 < Devastator> I bet!
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2019-12-29T21:26:56 < zyp> https://www.st.com/content/ccc/resource/technical/document/user_manual/aa/a6/c6/88/fa/24/41/2e/DM00092826.pdf/files/DM00092826.pdf/jcr:content/translations/en.DM00092826.pdf <- this thing might be a good starting point if you just want something generic
2019-12-29T21:27:33 < zyp> f401 is around mid-range, pretty capable but also pretty cheap
2019-12-29T21:28:27 < Devastator> let me take a look
2019-12-29T21:35:42 < invzim> I use f401, great stuff for cheaps
2019-12-29T21:35:52 < Devastator> interesting! I will discuss this with my product engineer
2019-12-29T21:36:21 < Steffanx> Dont pin on a single one,. there are sooo many.
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2019-12-29T21:38:38 < invzim> yeah, depends on application. What I miss on the 401 is a true rng and the fancy uart that can toggle the de/re pin for you when doing rs485
2019-12-29T21:39:04 < zyp> there's smaller/cheaper parts than f401, but I wouldn't suggest anything particular without knowing the application
2019-12-29T21:39:13 < zyp> and there's also larger/more powerful parts
2019-12-29T21:39:49 < zyp> and then there's newer parts (both smaller and larger) with some features the older doesn't have, like the ones invzim are mentioning
2019-12-29T21:41:05 < zyp> and then you've of course got the old f1 parts, which may be good bang for the buck, but has some annoyances that the newer parts lack
2019-12-29T21:41:28 < Laurenceb> talking about hardware peripherals?! But XMOS is the future guys
2019-12-29T21:41:33 < Laurenceb> /s
2019-12-29T21:41:52 < zyp> Laurenceb, it can stay in the future then
2019-12-29T21:42:07 < Laurenceb> heh
2019-12-29T21:42:26 < Steffanx> Same future as Brexit?
2019-12-29T21:43:20 < zyp> but this time the date is final! no?
2019-12-29T21:45:17 < zyp> hmm
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2019-12-29T21:49:33 < zyp> RT5715 looks like a nice reg to drop 5V to 3.3V/1.8V as far as I can tell, but I don't really have a good frame of reference for comparison, anybody care to take a look?
2019-12-29T21:50:08 < machinehum> richtek
2019-12-29T21:51:42 < machinehum> why are there two grounds
2019-12-29T21:51:58 < zyp> power/signal
2019-12-29T21:52:23 < machinehum> So you can isolate it
2019-12-29T21:53:01 < zyp> looks like the point is to avoid noise on the feedback signal
2019-12-29T21:53:09 < machinehum> like why would you want that, two grounds is notoriously annoying
2019-12-29T21:53:21 < machinehum> I've never had that problem before
2019-12-29T21:54:54 < zyp> then just connect them both together
2019-12-29T21:57:54 < machinehum> No talk of burst mode, it might be the "Adative On-Time Control"
2019-12-29T21:58:17 < machinehum> If not, your effiency under light loads will be shit
2019-12-29T21:59:42 < machinehum> idk looks like a fine part
2019-12-29T22:00:46 < machinehum> ti makes regulators like that, you will also probably get better availability
2019-12-29T22:02:15 < zyp> at 10x the price? :)
2019-12-29T22:02:37 < machinehum> https://www.digikey.ca/product-detail/en/texas-instruments/TPS562201DDCR/296-44397-1-ND/6110665
2019-12-29T22:02:43 < machinehum> There's on for a buck
2019-12-29T22:02:45 < machinehum> one
2019-12-29T22:02:59 < machinehum> If you don't mind a bigger choke
2019-12-29T22:04:01 < Steffanx> zyp snips has nothing about it?
2019-12-29T22:04:57 < zyp> Steffanx, already looked, the mentioned options doesn't look all that interesting
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2019-12-29T22:07:49 < machinehum> https://www.digikey.ca/product-detail/en/texas-instruments/TLV62569DBVR/296-47360-1-ND/7688370
2019-12-29T22:08:50 < zyp> machinehum, I also want the pgood pin for sequencing
2019-12-29T22:09:01 < Thorn> dfn probably has better W/°C that sot-23
2019-12-29T22:09:09 < machinehum> Oh
2019-12-29T22:09:10 < zyp> that too
2019-12-29T22:09:20 < machinehum> Yeah idk ti doesn't really do the pg shit
2019-12-29T22:09:25 < machinehum> Power's always good yo
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2019-12-29T22:47:25 < karlp> PaulFertser: I'm with you, last years CCC talks were .... very lack luster compared to years past.
2019-12-29T22:47:37 < karlp> I'll still scroll through them all next week back at work, and hope for change :)
2019-12-29T22:49:39 < PaulFertser> karlp: I enjoyed plenty of talks from 2018, I'm not sure if there were more like that in the 2017 or 2016.
2019-12-29T22:49:44 < Steffanx> You mean: pure autism.
2019-12-29T22:50:46 < BrainDamage> fwiw I went to 29c3, but that was quite a few years ago
2019-12-29T22:51:06 < Steffanx> and what is your opintion about it BrainDamage?
2019-12-29T22:51:43 < BrainDamage> I was surprised at first how many non-technical talks, but it wasn't bad per se
2019-12-29T22:51:59 < BrainDamage> also the size was a fraction of what's now
2019-12-29T22:52:35 < BrainDamage> spent a decent time travelling EU with Ultrasauce and few others
2019-12-29T22:52:50 < Steffanx> Aha. The sauce before he as called the suace.
2019-12-29T22:52:54 < karlp> qyx: omega 2s is wayyyy less cpu than a rpi cm.
2019-12-29T22:53:41 < BrainDamage> I distinctively remember ending up laughing at one talk's idiocy
2019-12-29T22:54:10 < BrainDamage> he got trash talked in the Q&A too, I was in line as well for some piling-up, but we ran out of time
2019-12-29T22:55:22 < Steffanx> What was it about?
2019-12-29T22:55:39 < Steffanx> The videos still seem to be up
2019-12-29T22:55:55 < Steffanx> or not. hm
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2019-12-29T22:57:04 < BrainDamage> some guy slapping a geiger counter on an arduino without any calibration and everything and then went to a nuclear measurement conference and mocked the guys there without having a single clue
2019-12-29T22:57:55 < BrainDamage> it was inspired by fukushima, the whole thing was pretty much useless tho
2019-12-29T22:58:26 < BrainDamage> because no calibration, no referencing, etc and they were collecting data from random people with random hardware
2019-12-29T22:58:42 < BrainDamage> so the maps they built weren't even good for qualitative measurements
2019-12-29T23:00:10 < karlp> yar, I remembner that one.
2019-12-29T23:00:14 < karlp> they sold a bunch of kits though......
2019-12-29T23:01:09 < Steffanx> i dont see it in the list, but .. the title might be less obvious.
2019-12-29T23:01:16 < BrainDamage> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UyGjdloVPKQ
2019-12-29T23:01:32 < Steffanx> oh it was there
2019-12-29T23:02:19 < PaulFertser> BrainDamage: and even with calibration it would be meaningful to measure arbitrary sources.
2019-12-29T23:02:22 < karlp> zyp: same chipset as that jjplus, and one I've been looking at, instead of pcie, just a module like this: https://www.aliexpress.com/item/32958854958.html
2019-12-29T23:02:46 < PaulFertser> BrainDamage: because geiger...
2019-12-29T23:02:50 < karlp> not a wonderful chipset, but, cheap and works
2019-12-29T23:03:12 < BrainDamage> https://youtu.be/UyGjdloVPKQ?t=1484
2019-12-29T23:03:55 < zyp> karlp, not the same chipset, the one I linked does ac
2019-12-29T23:04:20 < karlp> it said rtl8188, guess there's more variants.
2019-12-29T23:04:33 < zyp> the one I linked to says rtl8822bu
2019-12-29T23:04:36 < karlp> you can get these cheap too for your buck module: https://www.aliexpress.com/item/32636482278.html
2019-12-29T23:04:41 < karlp> oh, my bad, misreda.
2019-12-29T23:04:59 < zyp> heh, that's cute
2019-12-29T23:05:02 < karlp> I'd check you have working drivers in your OS of choice for a realtek AC module
2019-12-29T23:05:13 < zyp> yeah, seems to require an out of tree driver
2019-12-29T23:05:19 < zyp> a google search gave some dkms hits
2019-12-29T23:05:26 < zyp> but w/e
2019-12-29T23:05:39 < zyp> I'm not looking to do wifi any time soon
2019-12-29T23:05:53 < karlp> there's a variety of buck modules cheap on aliexpress, there's a few on that ti 54331 in different shapes, and then one or two others.
2019-12-29T23:06:02 < zyp> yeah, I've seen
2019-12-29T23:06:02 < karlp> at least tells you what parts are "cheap i china" for that use
2019-12-29T23:06:07 < zyp> yeah
2019-12-29T23:07:29 < karlp> mp1584 was common, but I don't think it accepts a wide enough input to really do 24v.
2019-12-29T23:08:23 < karlp> this shit is cute too, just pretend it's the 80s and it's a to-220 7805: https://www.aliexpress.com/item/32922251696.html
2019-12-29T23:08:31 < zyp> https://bin.jvnv.net/file/5Xq9D.png <- this is fucking awful
2019-12-29T23:08:41 < zyp> but I guess it doesn't get better than that :p
2019-12-29T23:08:52 < BrainDamage> needs more gnd
2019-12-29T23:09:00 < karlp> even has the Iq of 1.5mA to really remind you of being in the 80s.
2019-12-29T23:12:02 < zyp> heh
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2019-12-29T23:17:58 < karlp> hrm, "original" 7805 was actually Iq of 5mA. awesome..
2019-12-29T23:18:30 < zyp> karlp, so what do you think about RT5715?
2019-12-29T23:19:09 < zyp> to me it looks like low Iq, few parts, small inductor, not overly expensive
2019-12-29T23:20:36 < karlp> it's only 5.5v in max?
2019-12-29T23:20:43 < karlp> is this for your secondary regs?
2019-12-29T23:20:48 < zyp> yes, exactly
2019-12-29T23:21:36 < karlp> you need what, ~1A at 3.3 and a few hundred at 1.8 or something?
2019-12-29T23:22:14 < karlp> buck, buck and ldo?
2019-12-29T23:22:21 < karlp> can't just do two bucks from the wide in?
2019-12-29T23:22:42 < zyp> I figured I'll do 24->5 with something else, and 5->3.3 and 5->1.8 with this
2019-12-29T23:23:27 < zyp> and same regs to make 5V and 3.3V on backplane
2019-12-29T23:23:58 < zyp> usb hub needs up to a couple hundred mA at 3.3V
2019-12-29T23:24:10 < zyp> so I don't wanna LDO that either
2019-12-29T23:24:42 < zyp> i.e. I wanna find something decent I can copypaste everywhere
2019-12-29T23:24:54 < PaulFertser> BrainDamage: I think shortly after Fukushima some relatively cheap scincillation detectors were produced, using some solid-state sensors, and those were meaningful.
2019-12-29T23:25:32 < BrainDamage> yes, polyethylene naphatalate and a single photon counter
2019-12-29T23:25:38 < karlp> looks fine I guess, I find it difficult to compare teh slew of options that seem ~same from peopöle like richteck and mps and co
2019-12-29T23:25:53 < BrainDamage> my profs in univ were directly involved in their development
2019-12-29T23:26:00 < Steffanx> At the end he says he trusts the manufacturer to do the calibration.. isnt that enough calibration?
2019-12-29T23:26:33 < BrainDamage> no because 99.9% of the people don't have access to calibration sources
2019-12-29T23:26:38 < PaulFertser> Steffanx: with Geiger you never know the energy of the particle.
2019-12-29T23:26:50 < BrainDamage> and for second, you need to assume the radation type
2019-12-29T23:26:52 < BrainDamage> and the energy
2019-12-29T23:27:01 < PaulFertser> Steffanx: so if you calibrate it with particular source you can the measure _the same type of source_ reliably.
2019-12-29T23:27:14 < Steffanx> Yeah i see.
2019-12-29T23:27:27 < BrainDamage> I even made my own scintillator btw, but I used a PMT instead of a S-APD
2019-12-29T23:27:40 < BrainDamage> and I had access to the lab's calibration sources
2019-12-29T23:27:52 < karlp> pmt and s-apd are?
2019-12-29T23:28:13 < BrainDamage> photo multiplier tube, and single photon avalanche photodiode
2019-12-29T23:28:24 < BrainDamage> they are sensors capable to detect single photons
2019-12-29T23:30:00 < BrainDamage> instead of a classic multichannel analyser tho I went and deconvolved the output to get the spectrum
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2019-12-29T23:39:40 < qyx> zyp: no, basically 51x70mm usable space
2019-12-29T23:39:52 < qyx> karlp: true, but pcie!
2019-12-29T23:51:00 < zyp> what do you need pcie for when you don't have the grunt to do anything with data at that rate?
2019-12-29T23:54:59 < Thorn> why so many mosfets https://www.aliexpress.com/item/4000436631776.html
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2019-12-29T23:55:21 < Thorn> datashit says it's 300A, 1200A pulse
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2019-12-29T23:56:08 < qyx> zyp: somehow I perceive the idea of having multiple microsd cards retarted
2019-12-29T23:56:37 < qyx> eg. for logging long-term data for postprocessing
2019-12-29T23:57:19 < qyx> emmc modules are $$
2019-12-29T23:57:47 < qyx> SATA, being mSATA, m.2 or 2.5" is either starting to disappear or huge
2019-12-29T23:58:25 < qyx> the last reasonable possiblity seems to be using NVMes, 2280 or 2242
2019-12-29T23:58:32 < qyx> the first one doesn't fit
2019-12-29T23:58:36 < qyx> the latter is niche
2019-12-29T23:58:38 < qyx> so meh
2019-12-29T23:58:58 < BrainDamage> https://www.amazon.it/ports-Micro-Memory-Adapter-Converter/dp/B01AHRB23E
2019-12-29T23:59:24 < Steffanx> lol
2019-12-29T23:59:37 < BrainDamage> duct taping together bikes to make a car
--- Day changed Mon Dec 30 2019
2019-12-30T00:00:05 < qyx> if linux supported more than 1 SD card on a single SDIO host, I would lean towards this ~~idea
2019-12-30T00:00:22 < qyx> but for reasons the support is nonfunctional/removed
2019-12-30T00:02:44 < qyx> also SDXC cards may or may not work on a SDHC-capable host, interwebs says
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2019-12-30T00:05:54 < specing> qyx: "patches welcome!"
2019-12-30T00:06:53 < qyx> untrue
2019-12-30T00:06:57 < qyx> patches were rejected
2019-12-30T00:07:04 < qyx> (not mine)
2019-12-30T00:07:06 < Steffanx> because not writen in Ada. duh
2019-12-30T00:07:23 < qyx> because something something may violate SD specs
2019-12-30T00:07:32 < Steffanx> Damn it specing. can you make me forget about Ada?
2019-12-30T00:13:16 < specing> no, Steffanx
2019-12-30T00:13:25 < specing> Just accept Ada into your life, already
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2019-12-30T00:23:42 < qyx> this thing fits https://www.mouser.sk/ProductDetail/Amphenol-FCI/10033853-052FSLF?qs=sGAEpiMZZMu51HMau1GEUBTEbqSTMcBDuRtFeNSuaDM%3D
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2019-12-30T00:41:31 < zyp> qyx, idk about sata disappearing, I bought an m.2 ssd a few weeks ago and that was sata
2019-12-30T00:43:09 < zyp> SA400M8/240G
2019-12-30T00:43:12 < zyp> m.2 2280
2019-12-30T00:43:39 < qyx> yeah they are available but not as before
2019-12-30T00:44:01 < zyp> idk, I've never bought m.2 before
2019-12-30T00:44:02 < qyx> they already hit the limit
2019-12-30T00:45:34 < zyp> looking at the stores, it looks like all lowend ssds are 2280 sata
2019-12-30T00:48:25 < PaulFertser> Steffanx: a GNU/Linux distribution Hyperbola plans to switch to OpenBSD kernel; rationale includes "Linux kernel proposed usage of Rust". https://www.hyperbola.info/news/announcing-hyperbolabsd-roadmap/
2019-12-30T00:48:31 < zyp> MZ-N6E2T0BW, 2TB, sata, 2280
2019-12-30T00:50:50 < qyx> PaulFertser: :D
2019-12-30T00:52:29 < Steffanx> PaulFertser: lol ty. not sure what i want with this.
2019-12-30T00:52:57 < qyx> fuk those prices
2019-12-30T00:52:58 < PaulFertser> Steffanx: that was prompted by your remark about Ada in kernel.
2019-12-30T00:53:08 < Steffanx> Ah D:
2019-12-30T00:53:35 < PaulFertser> You see how subtle I am
2019-12-30T00:57:36 < specing> I need to figure out how to write LKMs in Ada
2019-12-30T00:57:40 < specing> I have a few ideas already
2019-12-30T01:15:19 < qyx> I'll solder sd cards to pcb directly
2019-12-30T01:15:45 < qyx> https://hackaday.com/2015/08/18/reflow-solder-your-micro-sd-to-ensure-it-doesnt-go-anywhere/
2019-12-30T01:16:19 < Steffanx> -_-
2019-12-30T01:16:38 < Thorn> and fuck eMMC amirite
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2019-12-30T01:27:42 < zyp> dongs, https://bin.jvnv.net/file/KpAPH.png <- is the tabs supposed to look this off center in the slots? measurements seems to be correct according to datasheet and everything else looks fine
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2019-12-30T01:39:49 < doomba> i showed my love for karl https://salcedo.tech/projects/cluster-controller/
2019-12-30T01:44:11 < qyx> https://salcedo.tech/projects/stm32-rfm9x/
2019-12-30T01:44:14 < qyx> been there done that
2019-12-30T01:44:20 < doomba> yea i think everybody has lol
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2019-12-30T01:47:41 < qyx> ok not reading blogs
2019-12-30T01:56:14 < zyp> qyx, so anyway, if the only argument against sd cards are you can't put multiple on a bus, why not go with usb dongles instead?
2019-12-30T01:56:38 < zyp> (or usb sd card adapters)
2019-12-30T02:01:20 < qyx> it's not that I couldn't
2019-12-30T02:01:33 < qyx> I am just refusing to do so for now
2019-12-30T02:04:29 < qyx> btw connecting them with SPI would avoid power hungry USB hubs and USB-SD bridges
2019-12-30T02:05:11 < qyx> but thats an arduino level
2019-12-30T02:29:29 < Thorn> barbarian musics https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h1BsKIP4uYM
2019-12-30T02:31:13 < PaulFertser> zyp: how one can choose proper SD cards? Are "industrial" good (and consistent) enough? Same goes about usb dongles.
2019-12-30T02:31:40 < zyp> PaulFertser, for what?
2019-12-30T02:31:59 < PaulFertser> zyp: for reliable operation :) I know consumer SD cards is a lottery.
2019-12-30T02:34:18 < qyx> consumer are million-level-cell
2019-12-30T02:39:14 < qyx> how would you terminate a coax going through an IP65 enclosure to a pcb?
2019-12-30T02:39:37 < zyp> sma pigtail?
2019-12-30T02:40:06 < Thorn> what is the lowest usable voltage of a li coin cell?
2019-12-30T02:40:14 < qyx> it is for capsense
2019-12-30T02:40:28 < PaulFertser> zyp: I once bought an SD card and it died in 3 hours while I was using it as an SBC rootfs.
2019-12-30T02:40:29 < qyx> Thorn: at 3.3V there is not much charge left
2019-12-30T02:40:29 < zyp> oh, your pee sensor?
2019-12-30T02:40:33 < qyx> no
2019-12-30T02:40:36 < qyx> water level
2019-12-30T02:40:45 < zyp> qyx, he's asking about primary, not liion
2019-12-30T02:41:06 < qyx> oh me blind
2019-12-30T02:41:07 < Thorn> cr2032 etc.
2019-12-30T02:41:09 < qyx> now I see
2019-12-30T02:41:23 < qyx> zyp: FDC1004 datasheet, first page picture
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2019-12-30T02:42:13 < zyp> ah
2019-12-30T02:43:34 < zyp> so what's the problem?
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2019-12-30T02:44:06 < qyx> I was hoping to find some cage clamp/spring contact connector
2019-12-30T02:44:13 < qyx> for coax
2019-12-30T02:44:41 < zyp> connecting the coax to the pcb is the challenge?
2019-12-30T02:44:41 < qyx> but SMA pigtail is not that bad
2019-12-30T02:44:46 < zyp> what about u.fl?
2019-12-30T02:44:49 < qyx> with ufl
2019-12-30T02:44:51 < qyx> yeah
2019-12-30T02:45:28 < zyp> I figure if I needed anything coax to PCB, I'd go either with SMA or u.fl
2019-12-30T02:45:51 < qyx> thats such unusual application I would even use a BNC
2019-12-30T02:46:02 < zyp> BNC is huge
2019-12-30T02:46:18 < zyp> and does it even have a price advantage over SMA?
2019-12-30T02:47:01 < qyx> hm, fair point, in that case I could use pcb-mounted 90deg SMA as well
2019-12-30T02:47:29 < zyp> https://bin.jvnv.net/file/UzlV8.png <- fun stuff
2019-12-30T02:47:58 < qyx> https://media.rs-online.com/t_large/F7009411-01.jpg
2019-12-30T02:48:01 < qyx> this thing I considered
2019-12-30T02:49:21 < zyp> I'll also add jumpers in series with VIN and VBUS so I can do current measurements of plug in cards
2019-12-30T02:49:22 < qyx> are you tapping usb
2019-12-30T02:49:28 < zyp> that's the idea, yes
2019-12-30T02:50:03 < qyx> are you expecting problems with slave cards :>
2019-12-30T02:50:27 < zyp> https://bin.jvnv.net/file/AVC58.png
2019-12-30T02:52:01 < zyp> I'm expecting to develop custom usb stuff for slave cards, and being able to hook up a usb analyzer is generally helpful when doing that
2019-12-30T02:53:12 < Thorn> should I put ESD protection on the coin cell?
2019-12-30T02:59:41 < qyx> no
2019-12-30T02:59:57 < qyx> I usually put a low leakage reservoir cap in parallel
2019-12-30T03:00:08 < qyx> to supply peaks
2019-12-30T03:00:10 < BrainDamage> the cell itself has a low-ish resistance
2019-12-30T03:00:29 < BrainDamage> which bleeds extra charge between ground and vcc
2019-12-30T03:01:54 < qyx> it looks like you can safely assume >2V for most applications
2019-12-30T03:01:57 < Thorn> qyx: 1? 10? 100? µF
2019-12-30T03:02:18 < qyx> depends on the load, for short radio bursts ~10u should be enough
2019-12-30T03:02:22 < Thorn> the horrors of living in Amsterdam https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EpQ6WcARe0c
2019-12-30T03:02:33 < Thorn> ok thanks
2019-12-30T03:03:05 < qyx> just reserve a footprint
2019-12-30T03:03:45 < qyx> you will see on the proto if the voltage is stable enough
2019-12-30T03:04:14 < qyx> but I would not care for <20mA or so
2019-12-30T03:04:41 < Thorn> my radio can eat up to 90+mA during TX iirc
2019-12-30T03:06:48 < BrainDamage> how long does tx last?
2019-12-30T03:09:49 < Thorn> up to 256 bytes or so @ 1...50 kbit/s probably
2019-12-30T03:10:25 < BrainDamage> that's ~50ms
2019-12-30T03:10:37 < Thorn> I'll need to put a Vdd test point next to the radio
2019-12-30T03:11:29 < BrainDamage> assuming there's no packet delay, that's 50ms*100mA = 5mC
2019-12-30T03:12:12 < BrainDamage> that's ... a lot
2019-12-30T03:13:34 < Thorn> this is @ max power (20 dBm)
2019-12-30T03:14:24 < BrainDamage> as a rule of thumb you want the cap the same magnitude of the charge
2019-12-30T03:14:28 < qyx> is there a ldo in between?
2019-12-30T03:14:47 < qyx> or your Vbat goes directly to te radio?
2019-12-30T03:14:52 < qyx> hm, also, it doesn't matter
2019-12-30T03:14:55 < Thorn> directly of course
2019-12-30T03:15:09 < qyx> it's not that of course
2019-12-30T03:15:47 < BrainDamage> even just reducing to 10dBm would be 1/10th of the power
2019-12-30T03:16:03 < BrainDamage> for which a 100uF would be ok-ish
2019-12-30T03:16:26 < BrainDamage> since it'd be 500uC
2019-12-30T03:16:33 < BrainDamage> and probably not that even
2019-12-30T03:16:59 < BrainDamage> since there's some charge provided by the battery and some gaps in tx from packets
2019-12-30T03:20:16 < Thorn> https://www.silabs.com/documents/public/data-sheets/Si4463-61-60-C.pdf page 4
2019-12-30T03:21:40 < BrainDamage> at 10dBm it falls to 1/5th, which is reasonable
2019-12-30T03:22:43 < BrainDamage> you'll still end up with a fat-ish cap if you have such long packet chains
2019-12-30T03:23:03 < BrainDamage> is truly necessary to make them long or can you schedule them to limit the length?
2019-12-30T03:24:12 < englishman> https://media.ccc.de/c/36c3
2019-12-30T03:24:28 < Thorn> https://m.tau.ac.il/~stoledo/Bib/Pubs/battery-iet-wss-postprint.pdf
2019-12-30T03:27:53 < englishman> BrainDamage: that geiger counter guy was not ready to be challenged on his views
2019-12-30T03:27:59 < englishman> like at all
2019-12-30T03:29:23 < Thorn> BrainDamage: actual packets will mostly be much shorter than 256 bytes but some might still be pretty long (100-150 bytes)
2019-12-30T03:31:18 < qyx> so better find a low leakage supercap
2019-12-30T03:31:42 < Thorn> ... experiments with a Panasonic brand Lithium coin battery. The battery was able to deliver pulses of both 35ma and 85mA without a catastrophic voltage drop.
2019-12-30T03:32:47 < qyx> I missed that part
2019-12-30T03:32:51 < BrainDamage> englishman: yeah, I thought "they were speechless because they thought that you're a moron"
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2019-12-30T03:53:21 < englishman> the birth of arm https://media.ccc.de/v/36c3-10703-the_ultimate_acorn_archimedes_talk
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2019-12-30T05:32:31 < sync> oh BrainDamage, I remember that talk
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2019-12-30T05:33:54 < sync> but interestingly the ODL network in germoney also uses uncalibrated but relatively well characterized tubes
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2019-12-30T05:52:13 < englishman> the LHC talk was super interesting
2019-12-30T05:53:59 < dongs> wazzat
2019-12-30T05:54:25 < dongs> oh the retard hacker lanparty
2019-12-30T05:59:50 < doomba> durrrr metasploit
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2019-12-30T06:06:56 < dongs> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HU2ftCitvyQ todays assembly music
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2019-12-30T06:13:20 < Cracki> I'm surprised they tolerate positive talk about nuclear energy
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2019-12-30T06:14:29 < Cracki> it's impossible not to notice that the speaker was non-german and trying to deal with the brain damage of questions by germans
2019-12-30T06:16:49 < Cracki> >But whatever you do, don't talk about how many inches she's gained this year. No matter what, tell her erosion has been kind.
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2019-12-30T06:38:10 < dongs> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NsKaCS3CtsY is this old
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2019-12-30T07:15:30 < Cracki> oh boy the lighting. that must be the first movie or they got lazy in the newer ones
2019-12-30T07:15:57 < Cracki> haah good aim
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2019-12-30T13:10:33 < Steffanx> Welcome
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2019-12-30T13:14:56 < superbia> hello from gstaad
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2019-12-30T13:52:49 < karlp> l0..
2019-12-30T13:53:07 < Steffanx> l4..
2019-12-30T13:57:09 < catphish> hello
2019-12-30T14:06:28 < Steffanx> Hello Sir.
2019-12-30T14:06:38 < superbia1> siemka Steffanx
2019-12-30T14:07:16 < Steffanx> Bok superbia1
2019-12-30T14:08:03 < superbia1> Witaj Steffanx
2019-12-30T14:12:30 < Steffanx> Why you speak polish today superbia1?
2019-12-30T14:12:52 < superbia1> I'me with some smart polish people
2019-12-30T14:12:57 < superbia1> why do you speak serbian today Steffanx
2019-12-30T14:13:13 < Steffanx> It supposed to be Croation, but yeah.
2019-12-30T14:13:40 < Steffanx> Is Ranewen there too?
2019-12-30T14:14:40 < superbia1> photos?
2019-12-30T14:15:28 < Steffanx> I dont know.
2019-12-30T14:16:37 < superbia1> dm me if you wanna see em
2019-12-30T14:17:14 < Steffanx> nah im fine.
2019-12-30T14:19:07 < superbia1> I bet you don't have snow..
2019-12-30T14:19:27 < Steffanx> Nope. We have sun. And 7C.
2019-12-30T14:19:43 < superbia1> ah, lunch soon ready, will share photos later if you want, just dm me
2019-12-30T14:20:07 < Steffanx> I'll see the on your instagram right?
2019-12-30T14:20:12 < Steffanx> Snapchat?
2019-12-30T14:20:32 < PaulFertser> Steffanx is an instagram user? :-O
2019-12-30T14:20:37 < Steffanx> lolno.
2019-12-30T14:21:32 < PaulFertser> Good heavens, I got scared for a bit.
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2019-12-30T15:38:56 < kakinull> hello innovator
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2019-12-30T15:54:04 < catphish> what is stm32 support for colour lcd displays like?
2019-12-30T15:54:36 < antto> 50 shades of RGB
2019-12-30T15:55:59 < catphish> specifically i was wondering about something full colour, maybe 4" kind of size
2019-12-30T15:56:56 < catphish> but i know *nothing* about LCDs and drivers
2019-12-30T16:00:00 < catphish> i see lots of these 4.3" 480×272 displays, might be a good start - https://www.winstar.com.tw/products/tft-lcd/module/tft-lcd-4_3.html - looks like i need some kind of big parallel interface though
2019-12-30T16:00:05 < rajkosto> can you somehow measure if a hdmi cable is properly working with a multimeter ?
2019-12-30T16:00:23 < catphish> rajkosto: unlikely
2019-12-30T16:01:01 < catphish> you might be able to test continuity, but even that is hard, and it won't tell you with any certainty that it'll carry signals properly
2019-12-30T16:01:36 < rajkosto> catphish, those displays interface depends, usually the chip supports all sorts of modes (framebuffered mode, direct "RGB VGA" mode, SPI mode) but the flex cable defines which mode is selected and what pins its sexposed on
2019-12-30T16:03:58 < catphish> rajkosto: is there an obvious choice of interface for STM32 use? does it have a good driver peripheral specifically for this
2019-12-30T16:04:19 < rajkosto> the f4xx series have the full RGB VGA interface if you want to have vsync and scanout from stm32 DRAM
2019-12-30T16:04:27 < rajkosto> otherwise you use the 16bit/18bit parallel modes
2019-12-30T16:04:38 < rajkosto> only falling back to SPI if you dont have enough pins, as its slowest
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2019-12-30T16:05:12 < catphish> i was looking at this thing - https://32blit.com/
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2019-12-30T16:06:43 < catphish> rajkosto: thanks, that's a decent selection then
2019-12-30T16:06:56 < rajkosto> just
2019-12-30T16:07:06 < rajkosto> find out the pinout of the flex cable of whatever display youre buying first
2019-12-30T16:07:29 < catphish> so each one will have a flex cable designed to expose a specific interface?
2019-12-30T16:07:33 < rajkosto> yes
2019-12-30T16:07:46 < rajkosto> sometimes you can change it by resoldeirng the strap registers on the flex cable
2019-12-30T16:07:52 < rajkosto> but the actual vendors dont support that, they just sell it as is
2019-12-30T16:08:04 < rajkosto> resistors not registers*
2019-12-30T16:09:35 < catphish> this one looks like it has a 24 bit RGB interface - that's the full "VGA"? https://www.winstar.com.tw/products/tft-lcd/module/tft-lcd-4_3.html
2019-12-30T16:10:14 < rajkosto> yeah that requires you waste your own ram to hold the framebuffer tho
2019-12-30T16:10:37 < rajkosto> the MCU modes (16/18bit or SPI) use the display's internal framebuffer so you dont use any of your own ram for it
2019-12-30T16:10:57 < catphish> oh yeah, that's a lot of RAM :(
2019-12-30T16:11:16 < Steffanx> So add some SDRAM :)
2019-12-30T16:11:34 < rajkosto> if it has DE/Pixelclock that means its RGB VGA
2019-12-30T16:11:48 < rajkosto> if it has CD and CLK that means its MCU 16/18bit mode
2019-12-30T16:11:49 < catphish> also, where's the vsync?
2019-12-30T16:11:52 < rajkosto> DE
2019-12-30T16:12:08 < catphish> ok :)
2019-12-30T16:12:18 < rajkosto> blanking interval = DE low
2019-12-30T16:12:19 < Steffanx> If you want to play around the STM32F746G-DISCO has it all for you. Not sure with what kind of display it comes exactly.
2019-12-30T16:12:44 < rajkosto> DE low for longer than one line == vsync
2019-12-30T16:12:51 < rajkosto> otherwise hsync
2019-12-30T16:12:52 < catphish> does that STM32F746G-DISCO have DRAM too?
2019-12-30T16:13:10 < Steffanx> 128-Mbit.
2019-12-30T16:13:14 < Steffanx> but its not exactly cheap
2019-12-30T16:13:18 < Steffanx> not like the other discoveries.
2019-12-30T16:13:32 < catphish> well that seems ideal
2019-12-30T16:14:00 < catphish> £50, not exactly "uncheap" for all that
2019-12-30T16:14:46 < catphish> there's a lot of other cool stuff on that board too
2019-12-30T16:16:17 < Steffanx> Whats the plan catphish?
2019-12-30T16:17:17 < catphish> well, i was initially just wondering how it worked, i thought the idea of an open source handheld gaming device was cool, but doubt i'll build one
2019-12-30T16:17:32 < catphish> might be fun to play with the disco board though
2019-12-30T16:18:00 < Steffanx> Yeah just hackup some rpi with a display and make a nice enclosure for it.> look at what Mangy_Dog did ;)
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2019-12-30T16:20:10 < catphish> yeah that's not my kinda thing
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2019-12-30T16:29:23 < Steffanx> oh that wasnt an rpi
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2019-12-30T17:12:10 < srk> this one is neat https://craigjb.com/2019/11/26/gameslab-overview/
2019-12-30T17:17:40 < Thorn> why such enormously overspecified zynq
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2019-12-30T17:25:35 < Steffanx> " it turns out that when your giant Zynq FPGA heats up to 70C while idling without any configuration" lolll.
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2019-12-30T17:26:54 < Thorn> the pcb is not open source?
2019-12-30T17:27:46 < englishman> pretty sure you need paid vivado for that too
2019-12-30T17:29:28 < Steffanx> im sure they used some open sores alternative or just are in the proces of making one
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2019-12-30T19:22:18 < catphish> zynq works with free vivado, unless there's something special about that one
2019-12-30T19:22:22 < catphish> mine does at least
2019-12-30T19:23:12 < Steffanx> Its not even zynq. its virte
2019-12-30T19:23:13 < Steffanx> x
2019-12-30T19:25:49 < catphish> it says zynq about 100 times in the writeup
2019-12-30T19:26:32 < catphish> it's definitely a zynq, the OS runs on the ARM core
2019-12-30T19:27:17 < catphish> that's the kind of device i was looking at anyway, but without the rather unnecessary FPGA
2019-12-30T19:27:43 < catphish> though i can see the benefit of the fpga if you wanted to implement some graphics acceleration
2019-12-30T19:29:40 < Steffanx> oh sorry i got confused by some pic of a virtex-7 also in the blog :P
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2019-12-30T20:27:56 < mawk> I bought a petroleum lamp at SoLow Steffanx
2019-12-30T20:35:41 < Steffanx> Never heard about SoLow before
2019-12-30T20:36:14 < mawk> :(
2019-12-30T20:36:18 < mawk> are you a real dutch
2019-12-30T20:36:28 < Steffanx> apparently there is a shop not too far for me.
2019-12-30T20:36:57 < mawk> it's a lot of very cheap and very shitty products
2019-12-30T20:37:13 < Steffanx> probably a physical aliexpress
2019-12-30T20:37:15 < mawk> everything from drinking games to cat litter passing by halloween/christmas costumes
2019-12-30T20:37:17 < mawk> yes
2019-12-30T20:37:39 < mawk> I bought lamp oil at albert heijn and it works
2019-12-30T20:37:42 < mawk> I'm impressed
2019-12-30T20:37:44 < mawk> didn't blow up my apartment
2019-12-30T20:37:58 < Steffanx> it looks similarish to Action. Everyone knows that in dutchland
2019-12-30T20:38:30 < mawk> yes
2019-12-30T20:38:34 < mawk> we have Action in France too
2019-12-30T20:38:37 < mawk> since not to long ago
2019-12-30T20:39:20 < Steffanx> For fun we call it A. C. Tion. Where Tion is a pronounced a bit frechish
2019-12-30T20:39:38 < mawk> akession
2019-12-30T20:39:41 < mawk> like this ?
2019-12-30T20:39:45 < Steffanx> Makes it sound more expensive.
2019-12-30T20:39:48 < mawk> lol
2019-12-30T20:40:09 < mawk> I am everywhere specing
2019-12-30T20:40:18 < mawk> I need a project to do Steffanx
2019-12-30T20:40:19 < Steffanx> No, its like A and C in ABC.. in dutch.
2019-12-30T20:40:22 < mawk> the UEFI thing is very difficult
2019-12-30T20:40:27 < mawk> it's like looking for a needle in a haystack
2019-12-30T20:40:42 < mawk> I have a .data section from the UEFi setup module, and I need to extract particular data structures
2019-12-30T20:40:46 < mawk> no CRC, I just have to use heuristics
2019-12-30T20:40:53 < mawk> so I give up for now
2019-12-30T20:41:02 < mawk> what I have is good enough for now, manual analysis
2019-12-30T20:41:30 < Steffanx> Sorry, im not good at coming up with projects :P
2019-12-30T20:41:34 < mawk> :(
2019-12-30T20:41:41 < Steffanx> And if i do come up with something ill never finish it anyway
2019-12-30T20:41:48 < mawk> I should write my vpn settings thing
2019-12-30T20:42:00 < Steffanx> Like my CNC is kina WIP over half a year now
2019-12-30T20:42:02 < Steffanx> it works, but its not done
2019-12-30T20:42:04 < mawk> to auto enable vpn depending on the network you're in, and provide a command for selectively disabling VPN for some programs
2019-12-30T20:42:18 < mawk> that's a cool thing to do, and nobody did it properly before to my knowledge
2019-12-30T20:42:32 < mawk> I know one employee of a major vpn company came on irc asking questions on how to do it, once, and I helped him
2019-12-30T20:42:37 < mawk> I want my name on the credits
2019-12-30T20:42:52 < mawk> you need a cool looking JS ui for it Steffanx ?
2019-12-30T20:42:56 < mawk> like doomba's oven
2019-12-30T20:43:09 < Steffanx> You want to do webcrap. please tell me no
2019-12-30T20:43:15 < Steffanx> but no, i dont.
2019-12-30T20:43:53 < mawk> what's missing ?
2019-12-30T20:45:35 < Steffanx> Software wise not much. its mainly the mechanics, enclosure for stuff etc. that need some work
2019-12-30T20:45:44 < mawk> I see
2019-12-30T20:47:41 < Steffanx> When is the holiday over? Next week?
2019-12-30T20:48:07 < doomba> mawk: my xmas present https://postimg.cc/c6r2pqTx
2019-12-30T20:48:44 < mawk> I worked friday Steffanx , and went to work by mistake today
2019-12-30T20:48:50 < mawk> but then it's over on the 2 of january
2019-12-30T20:48:53 < Steffanx> haha really?
2019-12-30T20:49:03 < mawk> that's a mac keyboard doomba ?
2019-12-30T20:49:14 < mawk> yes, only for a couple hours
2019-12-30T20:49:23 < mawk> but I registered the hours so I can leave early another day
2019-12-30T20:49:25 < doomba> no just dvorak
2019-12-30T20:49:32 < mawk> ah ! right
2019-12-30T20:49:33 < mawk> nice thing
2019-12-30T20:49:36 < Steffanx> Why does it have a Fn key, without the Fn keys?
2019-12-30T20:49:50 < mawk> two fn keys
2019-12-30T20:49:52 < mawk> strangely
2019-12-30T20:49:58 < mawk> or is it Pn?
2019-12-30T20:50:01 < Steffanx> i think Pn
2019-12-30T20:50:02 < doomba> Pn
2019-12-30T20:50:10 < doomba> it's a programming key
2019-12-30T20:50:14 < doomba> you can make macros with it
2019-12-30T20:50:18 < mawk> nice
2019-12-30T20:50:21 < mawk> like compose key
2019-12-30T20:50:23 < doomba> yea
2019-12-30T20:50:59 < doomba> i also mapped caps lock to Fn
2019-12-30T20:51:14 < Steffanx> does it have an stm32 inside?
2019-12-30T20:51:25 < doomba> i _think_ it does
2019-12-30T20:52:03 < mawk> ps2 keyboards are the best
2019-12-30T20:52:09 < mawk> usb cannot do more than 5 keys at the time or something
2019-12-30T20:54:14 < Steffanx> Do your own driver and forget about hid.
2019-12-30T20:54:57 < mawk> yeah
2019-12-30T21:04:11 < srk> heh, was wondering why full NKRO is a problem with usb recently
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2019-12-30T21:11:05 < Cracki> so ps2 runs at about 12.5 khz and looks like synchronous serial 8o1, so you get 1136 bytes/second... make/break codes can be 1-3 bytes. if you mashed all ~100 keys at once, that's still ~11 scans per second...
2019-12-30T21:11:59 < Steffanx> most importantly the direct interrupt gives you more headshots in games.
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2019-12-30T21:22:21 < mawk> yes
2019-12-30T21:22:53 < mawk> and it's due to how HID works too Cracki
2019-12-30T21:23:00 < mawk> with PS/2 the events are like "key up" and "key down"
2019-12-30T21:23:18 < mawk> while with USB it's just like every millisecond the state of all keys is sent from keyboard to p
2019-12-30T21:23:20 < mawk> c
2019-12-30T21:23:32 < mawk> and yeah PS/2 has interrupts from peripheral to pc
2019-12-30T21:24:57 < englishman> catphish:
2019-12-30T21:24:59 < englishman> oh he left
2019-12-30T21:25:24 < englishman> free webpack works only up to XC7Z030
2019-12-30T21:26:26 < englishman> ahaha not just kikecad but gross grey on grey kikecad
2019-12-30T21:28:37 < Steffanx> englishman is colour blind?
2019-12-30T21:29:03 < englishman> this dark background fad is the fucking dumbest shit
2019-12-30T21:29:13 < englishman> literally designed for naked basement dwelling lunix users
2019-12-30T21:30:02 < Steffanx> Yes englishman.
2019-12-30T21:30:21 < Steffanx> Do you really want everyone to be like you?
2019-12-30T21:30:26 < Steffanx> Would be awful.
2019-12-30T21:30:43 < englishman> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8_xaSom3Lro
2019-12-30T21:31:19 -!- c10ud^^ [~c10ud@emesene/dictator/c10ud] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds]
2019-12-30T21:32:12 < Cracki> mawk, I don't see a problem with millisecond bitvector, apart from the millisecond of worst case latency. also more compact than sending a byte or more per key
2019-12-30T21:33:41 < Cracki> in ps2 one byte is already close to 1 ms long
2019-12-30T21:43:25 < mawk> I said bit vector but it's more like array of 6 keys Cracki
2019-12-30T21:43:32 < mawk> so it's like 6 keys at a time maximum
2019-12-30T21:43:37 < mawk> with 1ms latency then
2019-12-30T21:44:16 < mawk> and since there is no key down or key up event, but just the state of the key, that's really the hard limit on pressed keys
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2019-12-30T21:46:20 < mawk> here he is englishman
2019-12-30T21:46:29 < catphish> i'm here )
2019-12-30T21:47:18 < catphish> englishman: are you actually english? if not, this is a serious infringement of my country's trademark rights
2019-12-30T21:47:44 < mawk> yes he drinks tea and owns a pug
2019-12-30T21:47:49 < mawk> definitely english
2019-12-30T21:49:34 -!- con3 [~kvirc@197.233.201.189] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds]
2019-12-30T21:49:58 < englishman> catphish: webPACK is free only up to xc7z030
2019-12-30T21:50:24 < englishman> pug? plz
2019-12-30T21:50:30 < englishman> I own an english bullcat
2019-12-30T21:50:35 < catphish> englishman: oh okay, i have a pretty low end zynq, i just assumed they were all covered
2019-12-30T21:51:14 < englishman> those squishy faced abominations are as American as school shootings
2019-12-30T21:52:52 < mawk> englishman: https://live.staticflickr.com/167/415073031_c33ca205b9_b.jpg this ?
2019-12-30T21:53:12 < mawk> that's what I got when I googled bullcat
2019-12-30T21:58:36 < Steffanx> looks about right.
2019-12-30T21:59:32 < Steffanx> enjoying the fireworks mawk?
2019-12-30T22:03:45 < mawk> yes
2019-12-30T22:03:49 < mawk> why are they today ? and not tomorrow
2019-12-30T22:04:04 < Steffanx> because people like fireworks.
2019-12-30T22:04:09 < Steffanx> *some people
2019-12-30T22:04:28 < mawk> it's been since 3 weeks that we hear explosions all day and night
2019-12-30T22:04:32 < Steffanx> yeah.
2019-12-30T22:04:36 < mawk> I should buy some too
2019-12-30T22:04:40 < Steffanx> nah
2019-12-30T22:04:43 < mawk> why :(
2019-12-30T22:04:47 < mawk> I like danger
2019-12-30T22:04:48 < Steffanx> dont waste your money on that crap please :P
2019-12-30T22:04:58 < mawk> but bang bang :(
2019-12-30T22:05:17 < Steffanx> bang bang fingers gone. ok im in.
2019-12-30T22:05:23 < mawk> lol
2019-12-30T22:06:02 < Steffanx> Should go more like this then: https://www.dumpert.nl/item/7816267_96b92397
2019-12-30T22:07:32 < mawk> nice
2019-12-30T22:11:49 < Steffanx> i'd rather watch some nice fireworks on youtube.
2019-12-30T22:11:58 < Steffanx> with some crazy polish or germans with huuuge shells
2019-12-30T22:12:39 < Steffanx> Especially when it almost goes wrong like: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o10x-kTRvWA&feature=youtu.be&t=212
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2019-12-30T22:14:05 < upgrdman> anyone know of a tool that will show live resource usage for opengl shits? like FBOs, textures, VBOs, etc. MSI AfterBurner shows some, but it seems to require an nvidia gpu. hoping for a general purpose tool that is good for anything opengl.
2019-12-30T22:30:23 < qyx> 20:51 < englishman> those squishy faced abominations
2019-12-30T22:30:23 < qyx> lol
2019-12-30T22:33:24 < Cracki> array of a handful of keys, I am disappointed in USB
2019-12-30T22:35:42 < Cracki> just so the packet is 8 bytes... could they not have gone to 16 or 32 or so bytes? then it could easily be a bitvector
2019-12-30T22:38:01 < Cracki> "20 00 01 01 01 01 01 01 " cat-like typing detected
2019-12-30T22:50:49 < zyp> Cracki, what are you talking about?
2019-12-30T22:50:57 < zyp> boot keyboards?
2019-12-30T22:51:16 < Cracki> looked up usb hid protocol. 01 is a "ghost" key. all ghost means keyboard has too many keys pressed
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2019-12-30T22:51:54 < Cracki> I mostly wondered why people would prefer ps2, apart from the interface's simplicity
2019-12-30T22:52:19 < zyp> because people is dumb, the limitation people are talking about doesn't exist
2019-12-30T22:52:44 < Cracki> BUT WHAT IF you have to press more than 6 keys to operate your computer
2019-12-30T22:53:00 < zyp> you can
2019-12-30T22:53:20 < Cracki> usb will say 010101010101
2019-12-30T22:53:28 < zyp> no, it won't
2019-12-30T22:53:38 < zyp> there's no 6-key limit
2019-12-30T22:53:40 < Cracki> ok I believe you
2019-12-30T22:54:22 < Cracki> just found 6KRO
2019-12-30T22:54:44 < zyp> the limit exists because there's a «boot keyboard» thing, which is a reduced subset of HID meant for shit like BIOS, so that they don't need to implement a full HID parser
2019-12-30T22:54:52 < Steffanx> even wikipedia says hid does not restrict it.
2019-12-30T22:54:55 < zyp> so there's a predefined descriptor, which happen to have a 6-key array
2019-12-30T22:55:21 < zyp> the reason the packages are 8 bytes are because that's the maximum for USB LS
2019-12-30T22:55:39 < zyp> but a USB FS keyboard could send 64 byte reports if they wanted
2019-12-30T22:55:47 < Cracki> can't even get away with reading a random page for a minute without getting schooled :P
2019-12-30T22:55:50 < zyp> and you can define bitmaps rather than arrays
2019-12-30T22:55:59 < zyp> I've done it in practice, it works
2019-12-30T22:56:06 < Cracki> nice
2019-12-30T22:57:02 < zyp> https://cgit.jvnv.net/arcin/tree/main.cpp?id=7a08559#n19 <- shit like this
2019-12-30T22:57:20 < zyp> defines a bitmap of 13 keys, all of them can be pressed simultaneously
2019-12-30T22:59:47 < zyp> it's also possible to do the array thing, with a larger array than 6
2019-12-30T22:59:51 < zyp> I've seen people do 16
2019-12-30T23:01:54 < qyx> those are for 13-fingered
2019-12-30T23:02:19 < Cracki> my point :P
2019-12-30T23:03:46 < zyp> no, it was for a game controller doing keyboard emulation
2019-12-30T23:04:32 < zyp> so was the other code I linked to
2019-12-30T23:29:15 -!- c10ud^^ [~c10ud@emesene/dictator/c10ud] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds]
2019-12-30T23:34:13 < Thorn> how difficult is DDR3
2019-12-30T23:51:56 < Laurenceb> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3wOyqiThZ40
2019-12-30T23:54:35 < Laurenceb> ^ Britbongs are the most professional trolls
--- Day changed Tue Dec 31 2019
2019-12-31T00:07:07 < mawk> hi Laurenceb
2019-12-31T00:07:23 < Laurenceb> hi Kerry
2019-12-31T00:10:20 < Steffanx> Blaxter. Are you brexiting on us?
2019-12-31T00:13:29 < Laurenceb> yes
2019-12-31T00:13:37 < Laurenceb> http://www.everythingselectric.com/forum/index.php?topic=154.0
2019-12-31T00:16:53 < emeb> sunlit uplands
2019-12-31T00:17:04 < Thorn> why no wi-fi modules / SoMs in zypsnips
2019-12-31T00:17:53 < Thorn> >Chinese module Ampak APxxxx based on Cypress/Broadcom chipsets. This module has no clear datasheet because of hiding real version of WiFi chipset inside
2019-12-31T00:17:56 < Thorn> l0l
2019-12-31T00:20:00 < Steffanx> esp32 is all you need
2019-12-31T00:22:14 < Thorn> have you seen my link to a video on the horrors of living in Amsterdam Mr. Steffanx https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EpQ6WcARe0c
2019-12-31T00:26:04 < Steffanx> i saw the vid, i missed the horror part
2019-12-31T00:26:19 < Thorn> so did I
2019-12-31T00:28:26 < invzim> ugh, altium on new pc is missing a lot of defaults/changes from old one
2019-12-31T00:29:20 < invzim> hm, you can actually export that stuff..
2019-12-31T00:40:09 < zyp> Thorn, probably because nobody did wifi yet, not counting esp
2019-12-31T01:01:41 < Laurenceb> keek all search engines are now locked to safesearch in uk
2019-12-31T01:01:47 < Laurenceb> brexit intensifies
2019-12-31T01:02:37 < qyx> totality?
2019-12-31T01:02:42 < Steffanx> Lol
2019-12-31T01:03:00 < Cracki> Thorn, what does he say when he says "germanye"
2019-12-31T01:03:13 < doomba> Laurenceb: that's only for you. the rest of UK can search fine.
2019-12-31T01:03:21 < doomba> they detected blax and turned it on for your own good
2019-12-31T01:03:41 < Thorn> Cracki: Germany probably
2019-12-31T01:03:46 < Laurenceb> lol
2019-12-31T01:03:48 < Cracki> sure but what else
2019-12-31T01:04:11 < Laurenceb> keek Yandex laughs at prons laws
2019-12-31T01:04:14 < Thorn> give me a time stamp
2019-12-31T01:04:20 < Cracki> goddamn yt subtitles don't remember I want them on and auto-translating to english
2019-12-31T01:04:26 < Cracki> uh 0:20
2019-12-31T01:04:34 < Cracki> https://youtu.be/EpQ6WcARe0c?t=17
2019-12-31T01:04:48 < englishman> Laurenceb: even duckduckgo?
2019-12-31T01:05:11 < Laurenceb> lol no, cuckcuck is unblocked
2019-12-31T01:05:13 < Cracki> ah, "stone, from germany...."
2019-12-31T01:06:06 < Thorn> "you can bring beautiful brick / stone from Germany, you can't bring German attention to detail"
2019-12-31T01:06:22 < Laurenceb> lulwut
2019-12-31T01:06:30 < Cracki> kek
2019-12-31T01:06:50 < Thorn> he doesn't like how the steps are uneven, etc.
2019-12-31T01:07:05 < Cracki> they looked like poured concrete to me. loveless.
2019-12-31T01:08:18 < Steffanx> Amsterdam isn't really the netherlands anyway, Thorn
2019-12-31T01:08:33 < Steffanx> More non-Dutch than dutch people there
2019-12-31T01:08:36 < Cracki> 6:56 "stalin's skyscraper"
2019-12-31T01:08:47 < Steffanx> And lots of stone/high brits
2019-12-31T01:08:54 < Steffanx> Stoned*
2019-12-31T01:09:29 < Thorn> Cracki: referring to https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Seven_Sisters_(Moscow)
2019-12-31T01:09:50 < Cracki> that actually has some art to it. that shipping container in the video doesn't
2019-12-31T01:10:03 < Cracki> people these days have no money for beauty
2019-12-31T01:11:09 < Steffanx> Ok boomer
2019-12-31T01:13:03 < BrainDamage> I don't understand why the uk wants to be such a nanny state wrt its citizens for surveillance and internet usage
2019-12-31T01:14:37 < Cracki> I think a step forward would be to make a clear distinction between the people and the government
2019-12-31T01:15:17 < Cracki> then call these actions "aggression"
2019-12-31T01:16:38 < Cracki> "the excel table" https://youtu.be/EpQ6WcARe0c?t=980
2019-12-31T01:20:00 < qyx> zyp: there was that ST wifi module with python and all the IoT stuff
2019-12-31T01:20:05 < qyx> looked great
2019-12-31T01:20:12 < qyx> then it disappeared
2019-12-31T01:20:34 < qyx> because esp32 was 20% of the price
2019-12-31T01:20:35 < Cracki> how much processing power did that have?
2019-12-31T01:20:48 < qyx> it was L4 iirc
2019-12-31T01:20:53 < Cracki> python doesn't like to be squeezed
2019-12-31T01:21:10 < qyx> so 160 or 320K
2019-12-31T01:21:29 < Cracki> micropython (or anything interpreted) on ESP is... claustrophobic already
2019-12-31T01:22:11 < qyx> https://eu.mouser.com/ProductDetail/STMicroelectronics/SPWF04SA?qs=Mv7BduZupUj3s8eLUS3cXw==
2019-12-31T01:22:29 < qyx> STM32F439
2019-12-31T01:22:32 < qyx> so no L4
2019-12-31T01:23:09 < Cracki> cute
2019-12-31T01:23:35 < qyx> I have one, played with it for ~1h
2019-12-31T01:23:59 < qyx> it had extraordinary range
2019-12-31T01:24:12 < qyx> about 300m between the module and android phone
2019-12-31T01:24:55 < qyx> both ~2m above sparse vegetation
2019-12-31T01:25:24 < zyp> hmm, I got a ST board with some wifi module, maybe that
2019-12-31T01:28:27 < Steffanx> Is TI CC3xxx still alive?
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2019-12-31T01:28:49 < Steffanx> I remember the first one being awfully buggy
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2019-12-31T01:36:11 < Steffanx> Some other one I used just send all rx data over uart to you. When the other side closed the connection it would send "*closed*". But no way to distinguish actual data from that string. It was RN*something.
2019-12-31T01:36:23 < Steffanx> Are there actually good modules out there?
2019-12-31T01:38:48 -!- AndrevS [~andre@2001:982:2b90:1:3d0:835b:c894:e33b] has quit [Quit: Leaving]
2019-12-31T01:41:35 < zyp> probably
2019-12-31T01:41:58 < zyp> question is, how much of the stack should be on the module and how should your interface to the stack be?
2019-12-31T01:43:08 < zyp> modules with full IP stacks with a serial interface is probably pretty shit
2019-12-31T01:43:28 < qyx> depends, eg. I am using internal TCP of GPRS modules
2019-12-31T01:43:34 < qyx> quacktel
2019-12-31T01:43:40 < zyp> and then you have very thin modules that requires you to do all the wlan crypto on your side, they also sounds like pain
2019-12-31T01:43:58 < zyp> depends on the purpose as well, of course
2019-12-31T01:44:10 < qyx> I would do the same with wifi probably
2019-12-31T01:44:27 < zyp> the more of the stack the module has, the less you need to implement, but the less flexibility you've got too
2019-12-31T01:44:43 < qyx> now I am exporting two interfaces, one is GSM, the other is TCP
2019-12-31T01:44:49 < qyx> I would do WiFi + TCP
2019-12-31T01:44:59 < qyx> the first one for setup and stuff
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2019-12-31T01:45:57 < qyx> (in one project, I have modular drivers exporting one or multiple interfaces advertised or not, which other services may use)
2019-12-31T01:46:39 < qyx> so board dependent code (or CLI code, or config load code) setups the interface itself
2019-12-31T01:47:01 < qyx> and then the application can use the TCP interface (if it finds one) regardless of the actual hw used
2019-12-31T01:47:03 < zyp> my perspective is like this: for wired ethernet, I would probably not want to use some full stack phy/mac/ip/tcp chip, just grab a mcu with a builtin mac and hook up a phy
2019-12-31T01:47:33 < zyp> which effectively means I get to deal with IP and up on my side
2019-12-31T01:47:57 < qyx> also I avoided all the routing stuff
2019-12-31T01:48:09 < zyp> so why wouldn't I want to do the same even if I change medium?
2019-12-31T01:49:59 < qyx> not sure
2019-12-31T01:50:04 < qyx> I would do ethernet the same way
2019-12-31T01:50:17 < qyx> but I would still use firmware stack for wifi and gsm
2019-12-31T01:50:43 < qyx> probably because less effort
2019-12-31T01:50:59 < qyx> also lwip + mac + phy is less effort than some wiznet
2019-12-31T01:51:08 < qyx> BUT
2019-12-31T01:51:16 < zyp> where's the difference? :)
2019-12-31T01:51:27 < qyx> mnultiplexing + ppp + lwip is harder for gsm than using the internal stack
2019-12-31T01:52:18 < zyp> so what we should have is some wifi or lte module that talks RMII like a PHY?
2019-12-31T01:54:17 < qyx> uh tunneling lte over rmii!
2019-12-31T01:57:41 < qyx> ok, starting kicad
2019-12-31T01:58:39 < emeb> dsp is fun! https://www.dropbox.com/s/zr9rhu4ft4nl1ib/amphour_peddle_chowder.mp3?dl=0
2019-12-31T01:58:40 < zyp> not tunnelling, just passing IP frames
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2019-12-31T02:00:53 < zyp> IIRC the 3G/LTE modules I worked on before passed IP frames over CAIF, wouldn't be too different from that
2019-12-31T02:02:11 < qyx> so you want to do a board with LTE module + MCU to translate to ethernet?
2019-12-31T02:02:26 < qyx> or you are just dreaming about RMII-enabled LTE module?
2019-12-31T02:03:10 < qyx> I want to do iot and internet thing with the onion
2019-12-31T02:03:18 < zyp> idk, I didn't bring up the lte topic
2019-12-31T02:03:43 < qyx> it has internal wifi, ethernet, pcie for minipci-e wifi, usb for minipci-e lte
2019-12-31T02:04:06 < qyx> and some nb-iot over uart
2019-12-31T02:04:25 < qyx> btw esp32 has ethernet, did you know?
2019-12-31T02:05:11 < Steffanx> Even some bridge stuff iirc
2019-12-31T02:11:11 -!- Tordek [tordek@gateway/shell/blinkenshell.org/x-yotsidyvkfojaumx] has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds]
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2019-12-31T02:19:59 < zyp> sounds like esp32 is the solution then
2019-12-31T02:20:22 < zyp> to what problem, I don't know, I'm not doing wifi
2019-12-31T02:20:57 < qyx> idk what was the original problem
2019-12-31T02:21:08 < qyx> it does not matter as we have a solution
2019-12-31T02:22:02 < Cracki> problem: how to find problems for solutions
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2019-12-31T03:13:00 < doomba> usb-c can be used just like a usb micro-b ?
2019-12-31T03:13:19 < doomba> i have no need for anything usb-c offers just the connectors
2019-12-31T03:16:42 < Thorn> doomba: use a 2.0 type c connector, connect 5.1kΩ to gnd to both CC lines
2019-12-31T03:17:07 < Thorn> and connect both d+ and d- lines together
2019-12-31T03:17:28 < Thorn> and you will have usb 2.0 over type c
2019-12-31T03:18:32 < doomba> this rockpro64 has a type c
2019-12-31T03:18:51 < doomba> and i have a v2.0 of those cluster controllers that i am thinking about switching to type c
2019-12-31T03:19:40 < doomba> then, i have to design and build a sort of backplane that consists of a 4 port usb hub with stm32 on one port of the hub, and then 3 usb type c ports to go to the cluster controllers
2019-12-31T03:20:17 < Thorn> a 4 port usb hub has 5 ports, one of which is the upstream port
2019-12-31T03:20:35 < doomba> yep
2019-12-31T03:20:51 < doomba> one port won't be rocked out to a connector, it'll go into the usb lines of the stm32
2019-12-31T03:21:09 < doomba> then 3 ports going to 1 of each cluster controller
2019-12-31T03:21:17 < doomba> then the upstream port into the type c of the rockpro64 (master node)
2019-12-31T03:29:17 -!- kakisemipro [25210d45@37-33-13-69.bb.dnainternet.fi] has joined ##stm32
2019-12-31T03:35:20 < Cracki> need a dumb (nochip, for raspi4) usb c cable to rip apart and screw to my lab supply. anything good on aliex that endures an amp or three over a meter or so?
2019-12-31T03:36:50 < Cracki> I heard ugreen before. is that tolerable?
2019-12-31T03:41:53 -!- rajkosto [~Rajko@cable-178-149-123-201.dynamic.sbb.rs] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer]
2019-12-31T03:42:15 < jadew> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z8yW5cyXXRc
2019-12-31T03:43:50 < Cracki> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6S27dgeGqfA
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2019-12-31T04:32:18 < englishman> wtf, wunderground was bought by ibm
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2019-12-31T04:49:56 < doomba> wunderground sux anyway
2019-12-31T04:50:00 < doomba> now it will sux more
2019-12-31T04:50:40 < Thorn> Cracki: ugreen should be good enough if it's advertised as 3A and isn't > 1 m just to be safe
2019-12-31T04:51:15 < Cracki> you're right I'm silly for wasting a thought on two bucks worth of chinesium
2019-12-31T04:51:36 < Thorn> aliexpress has ampak, pretty cheap too. need to find documentation
2019-12-31T04:51:40 < Cracki> aaand bought. nice 90 degree angle, see how that works
2019-12-31T04:52:14 < Thorn> could be the non-ESP wi-fi solution I've been looking for
2019-12-31T04:53:52 < Cracki> ampak wifi... first I've heard of it
2019-12-31T04:54:28 < Cracki> taiwanese. random part no... http://rockchip.fr/ampak/AP6356_datasheet_V1.0_07252014.pdf
2019-12-31T04:54:35 < Thorn> they have broadcom inside
2019-12-31T04:55:13 < Cracki> wew 800 mbit/s, pcie interface
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2019-12-31T13:57:22 < Thorn> has anyone worked with https://www.cypress.com/products/wiced-software
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2019-12-31T14:46:16 < Ultrasauce> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G1flq8LKkzk musicspam
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2019-12-31T15:14:44 < Steffanx> Happy new year aussies \o/
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2019-12-31T16:58:34 < invzim> anyone here used ssd1306 with their own design, i.e. not the plugin modules?
2019-12-31T16:58:57 < invzim> A lot of 'maker confusion' about, and datasheet not super clear on capacitor values
2019-12-31T17:00:33 < PaulFertser> invzim: do you literally mean ssd1306 and your own board to connect to some raw panel?
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2019-12-31T17:01:22 < Thorn> happy new year dongs
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2019-12-31T17:03:29 < invzim> PaulFertser: I mean this :) https://www.buydisplay.com/128x64-oled-i2c-0-96-display-white-color-connector-fpc-ssd1306
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2019-12-31T17:04:54 < invzim> Transitioning from a module to this
2019-12-31T17:06:19 < PaulFertser> invzim: ahem, and what's unclear about it? That got the controller integrated. And the datasheet for the display is surprisingly detailed.
2019-12-31T17:06:32 < PaulFertser> I see even specific capacitor values on page 5.
2019-12-31T17:08:10 < invzim> hm, a case of not enough coffee/
2019-12-31T17:08:12 < invzim> ?
2019-12-31T17:08:26 < PaulFertser> Or internal Vcc generator then page 6.
2019-12-31T17:09:28 < PaulFertser> That's a really surprisingly superb datasheet you got there. I've seen displays accomodated by a single PDF with some geometric measurements and list of pins and that was it :)
2019-12-31T17:09:45 < invzim> ahhmf
2019-12-31T17:09:53 < invzim> you're lookin gat the advace information doc?
2019-12-31T17:10:26 < PaulFertser> invzim: the first pdf link on that page: https://www.buydisplay.com/download/manual/ER-OLED0.96-1_Series_Datasheet.pdf
2019-12-31T17:11:47 < invzim> hm yes
2019-12-31T17:11:57 < englishman> doomba: are there any weather apps that show precip quantity not just percip chance
2019-12-31T17:12:17 < englishman> wunderground was one of the last that did. this metric has been removed from all apps that I have checked
2019-12-31T17:12:33 < invzim> allright, moar coffee less complaining :)
2019-12-31T17:13:54 < doomba> yeah i use two apps
2019-12-31T17:13:59 < doomba> app #1: go outside
2019-12-31T17:14:04 < doomba> app #2: darksky.net
2019-12-31T17:14:55 < englishman> app#1 doesnt have a great forecast beyond 8-12h
2019-12-31T17:16:00 < englishman> and it's hard to read at night
2019-12-31T17:17:46 < englishman> darksky site is ok, but the app isn't available in my country wtf
2019-12-31T17:17:58 < englishman> for a weather app that's a little strange
2019-12-31T17:18:48 < PaulFertser> englishman: https://bkerler.github.io/OregonDecoder/ and get a compatible sensor :)
2019-12-31T17:19:56 < englishman> Canada has a great open weather sensor network aktchually
2019-12-31T17:20:11 < englishman> plus I have mine that logs to influxdb and is pretty accurate
2019-12-31T17:20:35 < englishman> but rainfall quantity forecast is pretty important to me and it's been disappearing from weather forecasts
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2019-12-31T17:56:15 < bitmask> god damn templates
2019-12-31T17:56:17 < bitmask> :/
2019-12-31T17:57:17 < bitmask> oh I got it
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2019-12-31T18:29:46 < bitmask> ah fongul
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2019-12-31T18:30:25 < Steffanx> no thanks bitmask
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2019-12-31T18:45:34 < nn7> This is probably more a #c question but I'm going to try here. I'm writing a program for the STM32 in TrueStudio. I have a .C file which uses things like "GPIO_PIN_8" but the compiler complains that they're undeclared. Is the proper solution to #include "stm32f3xx_hal_gpio.h" in every .C file that wants to use those aliases?
2019-12-31T18:50:14 < PaulFertser> nn7: each .C file is compiled independently of all the others.
2019-12-31T18:50:44 < PaulFertser> nn7: I suggest you read the original K&R book, it's short and accurate.
2019-12-31T18:51:36 < nn7> That doesn't really tell me the proper way to do something. There's lots of ways to make it just work.
2019-12-31T18:52:11 < nn7> yow! including the .h file results in pages of errors!
2019-12-31T18:52:59 < nn7> Does the K&H file tell me the proper order to add STM32.h files so that it compiles?
2019-12-31T18:53:03 < nn7> K&R
2019-12-31T18:54:52 < nn7> I just tried an amazon search of "original k&r book" and didn't get any useful hits.
2019-12-31T18:55:46 < nn7> oh! I think I found it on the internet archive
2019-12-31T19:01:37 < nn7> It's 200 pages!
2019-12-31T19:13:50 < Steffanx> its only 200 pages ;)
2019-12-31T19:16:04 < fenugrec> it's shorter and more enjoyable than the C99 draft
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2019-12-31T19:18:31 < nn7> That may be true
2019-12-31T19:19:15 < Steffanx> Nah, C11 is all you need
2019-12-31T19:19:19 < nn7> Well, if I include #stm32f3xx_hal.h I don't get the pages of errors but the compiler still complains about GPIO_PIN_8
2019-12-31T19:19:29 < Steffanx> or c18
2019-12-31T19:20:08 < Steffanx> You might need more that just the hal.h
2019-12-31T19:20:32 < Steffanx> and define what mcu you use etc.
2019-12-31T19:20:38 < Steffanx> did you generate your project using truestudio?
2019-12-31T19:21:14 < nn7> I used the stm32cube thingie
2019-12-31T19:28:30 < Steffanx> so what does it complain about when you include the hal?
2019-12-31T19:29:11 < nn7> Looks like those definitions are case-sensitive and I didn't maintain the correct case.
2019-12-31T19:29:21 < Steffanx> whops?
2019-12-31T19:29:31 < Steffanx> Did you really write code without compiling a single time?
2019-12-31T19:29:49 < mawk> I bought vuurwerken Steffanx
2019-12-31T19:29:51 < Steffanx> You can do that ofcourse, but ... i usually dont.
2019-12-31T19:29:55 < Steffanx> *vuurwerk
2019-12-31T19:29:56 < mawk> I am a real dutch now
2019-12-31T19:30:02 < Steffanx> we dont see vuurwerken.
2019-12-31T19:30:04 < mawk> now I will lose a hand to it to validate
2019-12-31T19:30:06 < Steffanx> *say
2019-12-31T19:30:17 < nn7> Steffanx, it's only a few functions.
2019-12-31T19:30:23 < mawk> but the belgians said vuurwerken :(
2019-12-31T19:30:29 < mawk> I will sue them for language attack
2019-12-31T19:30:32 < mawk> https://www.middelkerke.be/nl/vuurwerken
2019-12-31T19:30:40 < Steffanx> that's .be
2019-12-31T19:30:47 < mawk> yes
2019-12-31T19:30:51 < mawk> same thing as nederland
2019-12-31T19:31:04 < Steffanx> btw, you have to check if where you live is not a "vuurwerkvrije zone"
2019-12-31T19:31:13 < mawk> I will go to the scheveningen beach
2019-12-31T19:31:16 < mawk> where everyone is doing it
2019-12-31T19:31:27 < mawk> but even if my zone is vuurwerkvrij I hear them all day and night since 1 month
2019-12-31T19:31:31 < mawk> nobody seems to care
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2019-12-31T19:32:31 < Steffanx> Dont tell me about the fine you got when you get one :P
2019-12-31T19:32:44 < mawk> lol
2019-12-31T19:33:05 < Steffanx> but it seems semi-voluntary there.
2019-12-31T19:33:14 -!- c10ud^^ [~c10ud@emesene/dictator/c10ud] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds]
2019-12-31T19:33:36 < Steffanx> https://www.delft.nl/nieuws/vuurwerkvrije-zone-u-regelt-het-zelf DIY.
2019-12-31T19:34:05 < nn7> woot! It compiles! Thank you Steffanx
2019-12-31T19:34:52 < mawk> "Last year a playground in Hof van Delft was successfully fireworks free, thanks to initiator Leonie Zweekhorst."
2019-12-31T19:34:54 < mawk> that's where I live
2019-12-31T19:35:02 < mawk> I hope that old grumpy lady is dead now
2019-12-31T19:35:05 < nn7> Now to remember how to get TrueStudio to export dfu files
2019-12-31T19:35:11 < Laurenceb> superpower in 30 mniutes
2019-12-31T19:35:11 < mawk> and did not declare my neighborhood as vuurwerkvrij
2019-12-31T19:35:20 < Laurenceb> poo in the loo
2019-12-31T19:39:21 < Steffanx> there will be mist mawk
2019-12-31T19:46:02 < mawk> :(
2019-12-31T19:46:13 < mawk> I will bring my petroleum lamp then
2019-12-31T19:46:16 < Steffanx> And you should be watching the DumpertTopZoveel.
2019-12-31T19:46:17 < mawk> to get some light
2019-12-31T19:46:21 < mawk> at which hour ?
2019-12-31T19:46:56 < Steffanx> now.
2019-12-31T19:46:59 < Steffanx> all day long
2019-12-31T19:47:14 < mawk> a
2019-12-31T19:47:24 < mawk> I don't know if Mrs mawk will like it
2019-12-31T19:47:27 < mawk> I will try now
2019-12-31T19:51:05 < Steffanx> haha
2019-12-31T19:51:40 < Steffanx> Its important. she can learn dutch from it
2019-12-31T20:05:22 < nn7> This seems unusually complex trying to get TrueStudio to work with stlink
2019-12-31T20:05:31 < nn7> I swear I've done this before and it just worked.
2019-12-31T20:07:01 < Steffanx> i hardly used it, but afaik its damn easy
2019-12-31T20:08:06 < nn7> oh here we go! For whatever reason my internet searches were showing me I had to reconfigure half of TrueStudio to get anything to work.
2019-12-31T20:08:16 < nn7> But I wandered through TS and found where to turn it on.
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2019-12-31T21:10:09 < aandrew> man, every time I venture out into arduino land I feel stupider for the effort
2019-12-31T21:10:52 < PaulFertser> Haha, why are you trying it this time?
2019-12-31T21:16:37 < aandrew> this has got ot be one of hte most idiotic schematics I've ever run across: http://image.dfrobot.com/image/data/DFR0144/V2.1/Relay%20shield%20Schematic%20V2.1.pdf
2019-12-31T21:18:27 < aandrew> those relays are 7V coil, wired up to the input supply the arduino uses (which can come from USB which is of course 5V only)
2019-12-31T21:18:54 < aandrew> and it's using a TLP521 optoisolator between the arduino and the relay driver transistors, which are powered from the same fucking non-isolated supply
2019-12-31T21:19:39 < aandrew> PaulFertser: just trying to help a friend with something simple, arduino is good for that but it feels like I'm trying to perform surgery with boxing gloves on
2019-12-31T21:27:47 < PaulFertser> aandrew: I've seen 13-y.o. kids being able to do some simple tasks with arduino really fast, by "borrowing" code from the Internet.
2019-12-31T21:29:36 < Steffanx> They are not limited by lack of knowledge
2019-12-31T21:29:57 < Steffanx> aandrew: is limited by his knowledge
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2019-12-31T21:35:39 < bitmask> heyoo
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2019-12-31T22:06:48 < mawk> I made my first coax cable
2019-12-31T22:06:50 < mawk> https://imgur.com/a/4uUZQK1
2019-12-31T22:10:21 < mawk> to put the ziggo router inside a closet
2019-12-31T22:10:25 < mawk> with a very long coax
2019-12-31T22:10:33 < mawk> I saw these "amplifier" things too, how good is that ?
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2019-12-31T22:26:17 < Steffanx> Got 5 hundredmegabits yet mawk?
2019-12-31T22:26:40 < mawk> no :(
2019-12-31T22:26:41 < Steffanx> per second.
2019-12-31T22:26:51 < Steffanx> Why not.
2019-12-31T22:28:15 < Laurenceb> https://ibb.co/ZMvHgf7
2019-12-31T22:28:42 < Steffanx> Must the the shittiest pic you ever posted Laurenceb
2019-12-31T22:28:57 < Laurenceb> kek
2019-12-31T22:31:03 < mawk> ziggo mechanic never came
2019-12-31T22:32:52 < Steffanx> yay
2019-12-31T22:38:14 -!- newbie is now known as con3
2019-12-31T22:50:10 < machinehum> 44.2kb/s exciting mexico internet
2019-12-31T22:50:34 < nn7> I'm trying to make my first CDC USB thing work. I can send data to a VCP just fine. I can't get the CDC_Receive_FS function to get called at all.
2019-12-31T22:52:25 < nn7> I have a breakpoint in the CDC_Receive_RS function and sending data to the VCP never triggers that function
2019-12-31T22:57:41 -!- machinehum [~machinehu@187.216.70.244] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds]
2019-12-31T23:01:37 < Steffanx> Happy new year russia!
2019-12-31T23:02:41 < PaulFertser> Haha Steffanx
2019-12-31T23:02:49 < nn7> it's the damn debugger, wth
2019-12-31T23:02:53 < PaulFertser> Do you know there're numerous timezones in russia?
2019-12-31T23:03:28 < PaulFertser> Steffanx: can you imagine the current hymn has exactly the same music as the USSR's and the words were written by the same poet?
2019-12-31T23:03:41 < PaulFertser> So offensive :/
2019-12-31T23:04:23 < Steffanx> i do PaulFertser
2019-12-31T23:04:26 < Steffanx> but i trush time.is
2019-12-31T23:04:28 < Steffanx> trust
2019-12-31T23:04:32 < Steffanx> https://time.is/Russia
2019-12-31T23:06:30 < nn7> why does my virtual com port not send or receive data if the debugger is active?
2019-12-31T23:13:25 < nn7> I can open the VCP fine with windows. But no data gets sent while I'm in the debugger (the code is running). If I power cycle the STM32, the CDC stuff works fine until I fire up the debugger again.
2019-12-31T23:14:41 < nn7> just connecting to the target via the stlink utility stops the CDC from working
2019-12-31T23:16:30 < PaulFertser> Steffanx: btw, do you like or dislike DST?
2019-12-31T23:17:06 < Steffanx> i dislike it
2019-12-31T23:17:35 < Steffanx> Im one of those that get jetlagged after the change
2019-12-31T23:18:20 < zyp> I'm kinda indifferent
2019-12-31T23:18:33 < zyp> I think it's unnecessary, but it doesn't really bother me much
2019-12-31T23:18:36 < nn7> :/
2019-12-31T23:19:04 < zyp> so I'm positive to this process of abolishing DST that's going on
2019-12-31T23:19:32 < nn7> what about everyone's desire to go to some non-standard offset rather than just ignoring dst?
2019-12-31T23:19:56 < zyp> it doesn't matter much to me whether people will settle on +1 or +2
2019-12-31T23:20:03 < Steffanx> -1
2019-12-31T23:20:29 < zyp> as long as it doesn't get fragmented, I'm happy
2019-12-31T23:20:35 < Steffanx> Yeah same.
2019-12-31T23:20:39 < nn7> if it doesn't matter, why doesn't the whole world go with UTC?
2019-12-31T23:20:54 < zyp> that too
2019-12-31T23:21:13 < nn7> I hear too many arguments about, "I want permanent daylight savings time so I have more hours after work."
2019-12-31T23:21:17 < zyp> I wouldn't mind, but apparently some people would have problems coping with that
2019-12-31T23:21:33 < zyp> yeah, I think that's a reasonable argument
2019-12-31T23:21:34 < nn7> which just points to me that people don't actually understand what's going on
2019-12-31T23:21:43 < nn7> how so?
2019-12-31T23:21:51 < zyp> because it's true
2019-12-31T23:22:08 < zyp> if the sun sets at 18:00 UTC, it'll set at 19:00 +1 or 20:00 +2
2019-12-31T23:22:19 < Steffanx> in the winter i always get the idea i have less time after woork, but mainly because i start when its dark and end when its dark.
2019-12-31T23:22:31 < zyp> and if work ends at 16:00 or whatever, that's 3 vs 4 hours of sunlight after work
2019-12-31T23:22:43 < nn7> but changing your timezone offset doesn't necessarily change when your work starts.
2019-12-31T23:22:49 < nn7> unless you're a farmer
2019-12-31T23:22:53 < zyp> it usually does
2019-12-31T23:23:17 < zyp> if you work 8-16, you normally work 8-16 both when DST is in effect and not
2019-12-31T23:23:45 < nn7> that's correct, but there's no reason that the employer will keep that 8 start time if DST becomes year-round
2019-12-31T23:23:59 < zyp> why not?
2019-12-31T23:24:07 < nn7> because why would they?
2019-12-31T23:24:32 < zyp> the idea is that the rest of society will keep their normal opening hours, and for an employer it makes sense to be synchronized with the rest of society
2019-12-31T23:24:54 < zyp> I mean, that's how DST works, so why wouldn't it work if you remove DST
2019-12-31T23:25:03 < nn7> so if you eliminate DST, wouldn't the employer shift their working hours to compensate?
2019-12-31T23:25:34 < Steffanx> i dont see that happening, no.
2019-12-31T23:25:38 < zyp> why don't they shift their working hours to compensate for the DST changeover every year?
2019-12-31T23:26:09 < nn7> because that would be the opposite
2019-12-31T23:26:18 < zyp> no?
2019-12-31T23:26:28 < nn7> hear me out
2019-12-31T23:26:52 < nn7> if they did change their working hours to compensate for DST, then they wouldn't change their working hours if DST was eliminated.
2019-12-31T23:27:01 < nn7> it would be the same result
2019-12-31T23:27:18 < nn7> so to keep the same result, the employer would change working hours IF DST were eliminated.
2019-12-31T23:27:27 < zyp> I think you're getting lost somewhere in your argument
2019-12-31T23:27:45 < zyp> it simply doesn't make sense
2019-12-31T23:27:48 < zyp> consider this
2019-12-31T23:28:01 < zyp> you've always had a 8-16 job, both in wintertime and summertime
2019-12-31T23:28:17 < zyp> now there will only be one time all year, why wouldn't it still be 8-16?
2019-12-31T23:28:43 < zyp> what reason does your employer have for wanting you to work earlier or later?
2019-12-31T23:28:58 < nn7> *blink*
2019-12-31T23:29:41 < nn7> if they don't want me to work earlier or later, why do I still start at 8 when the time changes?
2019-12-31T23:30:05 < nn7> when DST starts, I start working an hour earlier in the day
2019-12-31T23:30:21 < zyp> if you're looking at absolute time, sure
2019-12-31T23:30:22 < nn7> so my employer is making me work at a differetn time
2019-12-31T23:30:23 < Steffanx> no, i start at 8, no matter what.
2019-12-31T23:30:33 < zyp> but we're talking about local time
2019-12-31T23:30:48 < zyp> which again goes back to the more sun argument
2019-12-31T23:31:10 < zyp> you work until 16 local time, sun either sets 19 or 20 depending on timezone
2019-12-31T23:31:32 < zyp> in absolute time, sun sets at 18, you work until 15 or 14
2019-12-31T23:31:47 < nn7> why doesn't work depend on absolute time? why is work set to some arbitrarily changing local time?
2019-12-31T23:31:56 < zyp> effect is the same, +2 gives you one more hour after work than +1
2019-12-31T23:32:24 < zyp> isn't that the point of local time?
2019-12-31T23:32:57 < nn7> so why doesn't your employer make you work 3-13 so you get more daylight?
2019-12-31T23:33:09 < zyp> opening hours are in local time, employees needs to be present when business is open, so work hours are also local time
2019-12-31T23:33:48 < zyp> my employer doesn't make me work any specific time, these days I mostly work evenings
2019-12-31T23:33:59 < zyp> so the whole work time debate is sort of a moot point for me
2019-12-31T23:34:08 < zyp> but the argument still stands
2019-12-31T23:34:31 -!- dobson [~dobson@static.38.6.217.95.clients.your-server.de] has quit [Quit: Leaving]
2019-12-31T23:35:00 < zyp> a larger UTC offset means a later sunset in local time, everything locally is relative to local time
2019-12-31T23:35:30 < zyp> hence people who work until a specific hour gets more sun in the afternoon if the UTC offset is larger
2019-12-31T23:35:47 < nn7> yes, but why do you assume everyone will work those same hours if DST is eliminated?
2019-12-31T23:36:11 < zyp> because there's no reason to assume otherwise
2019-12-31T23:36:34 < Steffanx> my colleagues already start at random times, so .. that wouldnt change for me either.
2019-12-31T23:36:43 < Steffanx> (and yes im annoyed by that)
2019-12-31T23:36:48 < zyp> people are habitual, if 8-16 is considered standard working hours, they will keep being so
2019-12-31T23:37:02 < zyp> Steffanx, haha, why?
2019-12-31T23:37:08 < nn7> even if local time changes by 5 hours?
2019-12-31T23:37:13 < Steffanx> Why they do that or why am i annoyed zyp?
2019-12-31T23:37:23 -!- con3 [~kvirc@197.233.164.205] has quit [Quit: KVIrc 4.9.3 Aria http://www.kvirc.net/]
2019-12-31T23:37:27 < zyp> nn7, that's a strawman, nobody is proposing changing time by 5 hours
2019-12-31T23:37:47 < Steffanx> where is nn7 from btw?
2019-12-31T23:37:55 < nn7> midwest US
2019-12-31T23:38:30 < zyp> DST is already changing the offset one hour forth and back every year with everybody keeping to local time, there's no reason to think that would change if they made either of the offsets permanent
2019-12-31T23:38:32 < nn7> I would bet money that business starting times would become more fluid if DST were eliminated.
2019-12-31T23:39:23 < nn7> I found a solution to the CDC STLINK bug - https://community.st.com/s/question/0D50X00009XkXyVSAV/usb-cdc-dont-work-in-debug
2019-12-31T23:39:24 < Steffanx> nah
2019-12-31T23:39:25 < zyp> nn7, on what rationale? where's the benefit?
2019-12-31T23:39:43 < zyp> Steffanx, why it annoys you
2019-12-31T23:40:00 < zyp> the whole point of flexible working hours is for them to be flexible
2019-12-31T23:40:11 < Steffanx> oh, i sometimes depend on them and when they leave at 3 and me at 5 .. i have to remember that.
2019-12-31T23:40:22 < zyp> don't you have core hours?
2019-12-31T23:40:25 < Steffanx> *15 *17
2019-12-31T23:41:14 < zyp> I'm not sure what my current contract says, but I'm mostly working alone anyway so nobody cares, but my previous contracts used to say something like core hours 9-15
2019-12-31T23:41:15 < Steffanx> Sure we have some overlap and there is this 8.30-17 policy, but many don't do that.
2019-12-31T23:42:02 < zyp> and then meetings should be scheduled in core hours
2019-12-31T23:42:12 < zyp> works fine
2019-12-31T23:42:30 < nn7> I think it makes sense setting local time to local noon, or setting it to local sunrise
2019-12-31T23:42:35 < zyp> if it bothers you that people leave earlier than you, just start getting up earlier in the morning :p
2019-12-31T23:42:54 < zyp> nn7, yes, that's the original basis for timezones
2019-12-31T23:43:00 < Steffanx> lol no zyp.
2019-12-31T23:43:05 < Steffanx> i'd rather start later and stop earlier :D
2019-12-31T23:43:11 < zyp> haha, same
2019-12-31T23:43:12 < Steffanx> 6 hour workdays <3
2019-12-31T23:43:34 < nn7> zyp, yes, but we're getting away from that by putting some arbitrary permanent offset
2019-12-31T23:43:39 < zyp> there's been some political motion for 6 hour days, I hope it gets more traction
2019-12-31T23:43:45 < nn7> now "high noon" will be between local 1pm and local 2pm
2019-12-31T23:43:48 < zyp> yes
2019-12-31T23:44:12 < zyp> that's what has me conflicted
2019-12-31T23:44:45 < zyp> on one hand I think making +1 the standard (for central europe) is the most objectively correct option
2019-12-31T23:45:11 < zyp> on the other hand I also see the benefit of a later sunset
2019-12-31T23:45:44 < zyp> and in the end I don't really give much of a fuck as long as all the CET countries can come to the same decision
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2019-12-31T23:46:42 < zyp> because less timezone borders to care about when travelling is more important than correctness
2019-12-31T23:50:03 < nn7> so if we eliminate DST, and keep the same 8-16 local hours, in the winter, people in minnesota will have roughly an hour of light before work. In the summer they'll have roughly 3 hours of light before work.
2019-12-31T23:52:21 < nn7> I just don't imagine that people will get used to not being able to do anything for the first three hours of daylight because nothing is open.
2019-12-31T23:53:44 < nn7> I expect businesses will shift their hours to compensate.
2019-12-31T23:53:49 < zyp> haha
2019-12-31T23:53:54 < nn7> which throws out the "more daylight at the end of the day" argument
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2019-12-31T23:54:17 < zyp> so you have a two hour difference between sunrise during summer and winter?
2019-12-31T23:54:55 < nn7> some have more, some have less
2019-12-31T23:55:14 < nn7> But I guess the alaskans get used to it, so can I. :)
2019-12-31T23:56:16 < zyp> sunrise was 9:14 here today, not sure what it is midsummer but it's safe to say I'm not awake for it
2019-12-31T23:56:41 < nn7> if you're near the equator, it probably doesn't matter
2019-12-31T23:56:49 < nn7> what latitude are you at?
2019-12-31T23:57:39 < zyp> 58.something N
2019-12-31T23:58:03 < zyp> although I grew up at 59.something
2019-12-31T23:58:11 < zyp> 69*
2019-12-31T23:58:33 < zyp> so I'm used to winters without sunrise and summers without sunset :p
2019-12-31T23:59:27 < zyp> so your notion that people care about «not being able to do anything for the first three hours of daylight» is very strange to me
--- Log closed Wed Jan 01 00:00:06 2020