--- Log opened Wed Jan 01 00:00:06 2020
2020-01-01T00:06:03 < zyp> hmm, LAN9512 is a pretty neat chip
2020-01-01T00:07:24 < nn7> it's all relative
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2020-01-01T00:10:21 < Steffanx> Why zyp. Just usb to ethernet.. (with few components)
2020-01-01T00:10:43 < zyp> why what?
2020-01-01T00:11:17 < Steffanx> Why neat
2020-01-01T00:11:50 < zyp> I'm reading through the databook, seems pretty well thought out
2020-01-01T00:12:13 < zyp> decent flexibility, got a bunch of useful configurations
2020-01-01T00:12:51 < zyp> e.g. it can be configured to send only one ethernet frame per usb transfer for ease of handling, or multiple for performance
2020-01-01T00:16:51 < zyp> the MAC also seems fairly decent
2020-01-01T00:17:11 < Ultrasauce> additional musicspam, https://www.20ftradio.net/ is lit af tonight
2020-01-01T00:17:16 < zyp> although I don't know any other USB ethernet MACs to compare with
2020-01-01T00:17:58 < Steffanx> What did the RPI use?
2020-01-01T00:18:02 < zyp> the config eeprom can be configured over USB, so I don't have to do that out of band
2020-01-01T00:18:07 < zyp> that one
2020-01-01T00:18:22 < zyp> or LAN9514 on the ones with four usb ports
2020-01-01T00:18:33 < Steffanx> Ah lol
2020-01-01T00:18:36 < zyp> it's the same thing, just two additional ports on the hub
2020-01-01T00:18:46 < zyp> pin compatible and all
2020-01-01T00:19:01 < Thorn> ampak wifi seems unusable without lunix drivers unless you reverse engineer them :/ no docs, no nothing
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2020-01-01T00:56:01 < Thorn> ... except possibly ap6212[a], it seems to be built on {bcm,cyw}43438 which is supported by WICED®™ and is listed in the IoT®™ Solutions®™ Catalog®™
2020-01-01T01:06:30 < thardin>   //@ assert year == \at(year,before) + 1;
2020-01-01T01:09:04 < Thorn> happy new year europe
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2020-01-01T01:20:39 < aandrew> PaulFertser: I agree, it's easy to knock something together real fast, that's what I like about it
2020-01-01T01:20:49 < aandrew> and anyone can get an arduino and most shields
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2020-01-01T01:44:38 < mawk> I'm back alive Steffanx 
2020-01-01T01:52:40 < bitmask> alright, I think my code is finally fixed, just need to have it spread out turning the heaters on to avoid current spikes
2020-01-01T01:55:19 < aandrew> I think it'd be faster to just use a fucking bluepill and write it in C
2020-01-01T01:55:25 < Steffanx> Same here mawk . 10 fingers?
2020-01-01T01:55:53 < aandrew> bitmask: any advantage to slow turn on of the heaters? used to do that in industrial power for similar reasons
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2020-01-01T01:58:04 < bitmask> well I'm just setting a max current that will limit the duty cycle to 50% or 25% and where in the period it starts so that the current at any point in the period doesnt go above the max current limit.  I think my board can handle all heaters on at once but just to be safe i'll probably limit it to half which will be about 10A
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2020-01-01T01:58:58 < bitmask> it doesnt actually limit the current so that it slowly rises if thats what you meant, just limits the max
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2020-01-01T02:41:13 < aandrew> have you done any real world testing with it yet? how's it perform?
2020-01-01T02:44:47 < Laurenceb> happy new year
2020-01-01T02:44:49 < Laurenceb> https://www.scribd.com/document/217592867/Nuclear-SSTO-and-SPACE-VAGINAS
2020-01-01T02:46:39 < thardin> vagene
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2020-01-01T02:55:43 < bitmask> last year with v1 I had it working for a bit, held temperature well, I never tested how long it took to get to temp while wearing it, but it was quick just laid out on the bed or wherever
2020-01-01T02:56:21 < bitmask> im using new heating panels with less silicone so it should get to temp even faster
2020-01-01T02:56:35 < mawk> yes Steffanx 
2020-01-01T02:56:40 < mawk> lots of fireworks everywhere
2020-01-01T02:56:43 < mawk> like 10 at a time
2020-01-01T02:56:56 < mawk> I went to a park near delft, it was dark and nobody there
2020-01-01T02:57:03 < mawk> so I fired my fireworks there
2020-01-01T02:57:25 < mawk> then I went back to delft on the church place
2020-01-01T02:57:30 < mawk> to see more fireworks
2020-01-01T02:57:35 < mawk> also I saw dumpster fires
2020-01-01T02:57:38 < bitmask> fireworks just started here, just some crappy backyard shits
2020-01-01T02:57:40 < mawk> and car fires
2020-01-01T02:57:52 < mawk> in the shitty neighborhood
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2020-01-01T04:08:37 < Cracki> >These additions make clear that [...] we do not sell your personal information.
2020-01-01T04:08:58 < Cracki> giving them away wasn't excluded
2020-01-01T04:13:10 < Cracki> otoh, supposing that a company only does things to its own profit, giving stuff away could be considered a sale because it must have a positive effect
2020-01-01T04:13:14 < doomba> haha i think my chinesium oscilliscope died
2020-01-01T04:13:28 < Cracki> rigol, hantek, ...?
2020-01-01T04:13:32 < Cracki> how did you murder it
2020-01-01T04:13:33 < doomba> when the switch was turned off, it just kept draining the battery anyway
2020-01-01T04:13:42 < doomba> and i didn't think anything of it
2020-01-01T04:13:53 < Cracki> I consider drained battery revivable
2020-01-01T04:13:58 < doomba> then i went to use it earlier and it won't turn on. so i plugged it in. still didn't turn on.
2020-01-01T04:14:04 < doomba> it's been charging supposedly for 2 hours now
2020-01-01T04:14:07 < doomba> still doesn't turn on
2020-01-01T04:14:12 < Cracki> ah, rechargeable batts?
2020-01-01T04:14:14 < Cracki> lol
2020-01-01T04:14:23 < doomba> yeah built in whothefuckknows inside it
2020-01-01T04:14:27 < doomba> lipo
2020-01-01T04:14:28 < Cracki> can you pull them out? maybe the charging circuit flips its shit
2020-01-01T04:15:00 < Cracki> name the mfg, we must know
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2020-01-01T04:17:51 < doomba> daniu ads5012h
2020-01-01T04:18:20 < doomba> the interwebs are failing me. all i can find are sellers and nobody talking about the things beyond "hey i ordered this to feed my online ordering addiction"
2020-01-01T04:19:08 < Cracki> heh
2020-01-01T04:19:25 < jadew> didn't you buy that recently?
2020-01-01T04:19:34 < doomba> months ago
2020-01-01T04:19:49 < Cracki> time to debug it
2020-01-01T04:20:02 < doomba> it's been sitting there completely drained for at least 3 months
2020-01-01T04:20:04 < jadew> time to throw it in the trash and get a proper scope
2020-01-01T04:20:21 < Cracki> poke the power input circuit
2020-01-01T04:20:45 < doomba> i'm wondering if the battery has gone into "fuck you" mode and will no longer charge without giving it a bigger jolt
2020-01-01T04:20:54 < Cracki> maybe record it too, in case it leads to a solution
2020-01-01T04:21:12 < jadew> was it any good, functionality wise?
2020-01-01T04:21:19 < doomba> yeah it wasn't bad
2020-01-01T04:21:23 < Cracki> review https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZNemJTAMw_M
2020-01-01T04:21:49 < doomba> out of all the chinesium scopes out there, this was one of the ones that got attention for being notbad.jpg
2020-01-01T04:22:43 < doomba> i'm trying to debug a pwm issue on this rockpro64
2020-01-01T04:22:51 < doomba> and no scope :(
2020-01-01T04:24:24 < jadew> interesting scope
2020-01-01T04:24:38 < jadew> it's like the $5 dmm of the scope world
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2020-01-01T04:26:42 < Cracki> looks better (and is cheaper) than those "mp4 player" things
2020-01-01T04:27:05 < Cracki> 500 MS/s 100 MHz bw for 60-80 bucks, definitely bookmarked
2020-01-01T04:28:08 < Cracki> ah, single input :S
2020-01-01T04:28:30 < jadew> 4 channels is x4
2020-01-01T04:28:37 < Cracki> wat I'm blind
2020-01-01T04:28:52 < jadew> I mean you need to buy 4, if you want 4 channels :P
2020-01-01T04:29:12 < Cracki> joker
2020-01-01T04:29:37 < jadew> so... in a way, it costs as much as a 4 channel rigol, but delivers only 0.1% of the functionality and reliability
2020-01-01T04:29:50 < Cracki> good way to put it
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2020-01-01T04:39:15 < jadew> I almost forgot
2020-01-01T04:39:23 < jadew> happy new year!
2020-01-01T04:43:56 < Cracki> :P I tried to figure out what's special about this point in the year to start a calendar from it
2020-01-01T04:45:07 < jadew> and?
2020-01-01T04:45:21 < Cracki> tldr: nobody knows
2020-01-01T04:45:28 < Cracki> long answer: haven't found it yet
2020-01-01T04:45:50 < Cracki> so far I know that january is named for the roman god janus
2020-01-01T04:46:43 < Cracki> and I know cultures started their calendars at winter solstice and spring equinox, and this in between bs we have is either due to people sticking to old calendars that move out of alignment... or I don't know
2020-01-01T04:46:54 < jadew> any chance months were already in place and then they said "this is going to be the first month"
2020-01-01T04:47:04 < Cracki> possible
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2020-01-01T04:48:00 < jadew> I'm off to bed
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2020-01-01T04:48:11 < jadew> night
2020-01-01T04:48:29 < Cracki> byebye
2020-01-01T04:48:54 < jadew> and welcome to year 2020! (I was here one hour earlier than you)
2020-01-01T05:18:41 < Cracki> so julius caesar pulled a number out of his ass and that's how years start at an arbitrary time in the tropical year. footnote relevant. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Julian_calendar#Realignment_of_the_year
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2020-01-01T06:42:36 < Ultrasauce> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LPn9dcb5cIg musics
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2020-01-01T07:13:59 < aandrew> happy new year y'all
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2020-01-01T07:45:16 < bitmask> happy new year!!
2020-01-01T07:51:08 < Cracki> WINTER IS COMING. but first summer is coming.
2020-01-01T07:51:18 < Cracki> do you feel the days getting longer?
2020-01-01T08:03:28 < jpa-> i have the feeling that 2020 will be the year of linux on desktop
2020-01-01T08:53:41 < bitmask> someone fix my thermistor calculation, im done with this shit
2020-01-01T09:07:49 < Cracki> show your work
2020-01-01T09:08:54 < Cracki> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Unzc731iCUY
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2020-01-01T11:12:11 < Steffanx> Deja vu jpa- 
2020-01-01T11:44:10 < Cracki> dogs and minks chase rats, much scurrying https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SM4C3_nMN_g
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2020-01-01T12:42:20 < Steffanx> Wlcm jly  
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2020-01-01T12:43:02 < jly> gooday mate
2020-01-01T12:45:50 < antto> https://i.imgur.com/v4nXQd5.png
2020-01-01T12:47:03 < jly> reminds me of some music gadget
2020-01-01T12:47:32 < jly> guessing midi on the left
2020-01-01T12:47:47 < antto> three zero three ;P~
2020-01-01T12:48:37 < jly> idk what that is
2020-01-01T12:49:19 < antto> a legendary monosynth
2020-01-01T12:49:57 < jly> ah cool
2020-01-01T12:50:54 < jly> https://www.theverge.com/2019/11/8/20955772/behringer-td-3-synthesizer-announced-features-roland-tb-303
2020-01-01T12:50:58 < jly> oh behringer
2020-01-01T12:51:25 < antto> yeah ;P~
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2020-01-01T12:54:01 < Steffanx> antto:  still has to do some music spam with some music he did
2020-01-01T12:54:16 < antto> hm?
2020-01-01T13:08:57 < Steffanx> Yeah
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2020-01-01T16:21:39 < doomba> chinesium oscilliscope disassembled
2020-01-01T16:24:24 < doomba> GD32F407 with external spi flash
2020-01-01T16:24:45 < doomba> the oscope bits are the usual frontend shit with some hc148 encoders
2020-01-01T16:25:09 < Mangy_Dog> what oscilli?
2020-01-01T16:25:12 < doomba> and there's a mystery tqfp with no part numbers at all. 
2020-01-01T16:25:39 < doomba> i'm guessing the mystery chip is an ADC
2020-01-01T16:26:13 < doomba> Mangy_Dog: daniu ads5012h
2020-01-01T16:26:34 < doomba> and i think i found the culprit
2020-01-01T16:26:37 < doomba> If the battery voltage remains below VTRIKL (typically 2.8V)during trickle charge for one-fourth of the programmedtime, the battery may be defective and the charge cycle willend. In addition, the recharge comparator is disabled anda new charge cycle will not begin unless the input voltageis toggled off then on, or the TIMER/SHDN pin is momen-tarily pulled to ground.
2020-01-01T16:26:48 < Mangy_Dog> oh one of those
2020-01-01T16:27:08 < doomba> the charging IC is the LTC4056
2020-01-01T16:27:34 < doomba> the pcb appears to be two layer by the looks of via placement
2020-01-01T16:27:37 < Mangy_Dog> oh might use that
2020-01-01T16:29:08 < doomba> i don't see any regulation
2020-01-01T16:29:20 < doomba> the 32f407 has a built in regulator?
2020-01-01T16:29:42 < Mangy_Dog> power reg?
2020-01-01T16:29:43 < Mangy_Dog> no
2020-01-01T16:29:50 < Mangy_Dog> 3v3
2020-01-01T16:29:55 < Mangy_Dog> is the power for those
2020-01-01T16:30:02 < doomba> there are only 4 external passives surrounding this TP4056
2020-01-01T16:30:03 < Mangy_Dog> so somewhere a 3v3 rail 
2020-01-01T16:30:19 < doomba> LTC or w/e
2020-01-01T16:30:39 < Mangy_Dog> yeah sure 
2020-01-01T16:31:19 < doomba> no esd protection on usb at all
2020-01-01T16:31:41 < Mangy_Dog> funfun
2020-01-01T16:31:44 < doomba> the usb data lines are sent directly to the mcu
2020-01-01T16:31:55 < doomba> with vbus connected ONLY to this charging IC
2020-01-01T16:32:02 < doomba> so the entire board gets battery power
2020-01-01T16:32:08 < doomba> DIRECT battery power rofl
2020-01-01T16:32:10 < doomba> what a piece of shit
2020-01-01T16:32:38 < Mangy_Dog> there must be some kind of dc-dc going on between battery and circuit
2020-01-01T16:32:52 < doomba> if it is, i don't see it
2020-01-01T16:33:10 < doomba> maybe the battery itself has some sort of BMS and regulator embedded in the pack
2020-01-01T16:33:22 < doomba> if so it wouldn't make sense
2020-01-01T16:33:30 < Mangy_Dog> well batteries could have bms and protection buil;t in
2020-01-01T16:33:32 < Mangy_Dog> but not a dcdc
2020-01-01T16:33:33 < doomba> or would it...
2020-01-01T16:33:50 < doomba> there is a suspicious lack of supporting components for this battery charger IC
2020-01-01T16:34:44 < Mangy_Dog> must be a rather slow charger too
2020-01-01T16:34:47 < Mangy_Dog> just looked at the datasheet
2020-01-01T16:34:51 < Mangy_Dog> its up to 700ma
2020-01-01T16:35:25 < Mangy_Dog> naywya have fun
2020-01-01T16:35:26 < Mangy_Dog> i need to go
2020-01-01T16:36:11 < doomba> yeah i suspect whats happening is exactly what is said in the data sheet
2020-01-01T16:37:36 < doomba> and the reason it got that way is very clear just looking at these traces
2020-01-01T16:38:32 < doomba> there's a switch to turn it "off" but it looks like that only turns off everything except the frontend stuff
2020-01-01T16:39:46 < doomba> so the battery goes into deep discharge and then the poor design of the charging circuit causes its IC to stay disabled
2020-01-01T16:45:17 < Steffanx> yours is dead doomba?
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2020-01-01T17:29:11 < PaulFertser> I've seen "amazon nook" fancy ebook reader not able to charge a battery because the battery was in the deep discharge "disconnected" mode and needed voltage application for half an hour or so, and the nook was disabling the charging altogether seeing "no battery".
2020-01-01T17:32:41 < doomba> yep
2020-01-01T17:32:55 < doomba> so i just found out if you unplug the completely dead COMPLETELY dead battery
2020-01-01T17:32:58 < doomba> it works
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2020-01-01T17:34:15 < PaulFertser> The funny workaround for that specific nook model was to boot it and then send to suspend to ram and keep it like that for a while because it enabled charging unconditionally during suspend :)
2020-01-01T17:34:34 < doomba> yea this thing doesn't look that sophisticated
2020-01-01T17:34:47 < doomba> left the internal battery unplugged forever now
2020-01-01T17:34:50 < doomba> and will just power it via usb
2020-01-01T17:34:59 < PaulFertser> But the nook engineers weren't able to figure it out and it seems they've replaced plenty of units on warranty back then.
2020-01-01T17:35:02 < doomba> the firmware thinks the battery is fully charged now
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2020-01-01T18:22:19 < zyp> did anybody do PoE yet?
2020-01-01T18:23:14 < zyp> I'm debating whether I should go with a module or roll my own
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2020-01-01T19:18:30 < Laurenceb> https://science.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=15503272&cid=59576294
2020-01-01T19:18:32 < Laurenceb> based
2020-01-01T19:20:24 < Steffanx> ok
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2020-01-01T19:25:22 < mawk>  freebased ?
2020-01-01T19:25:28 < mawk> are you a crack cocaine addict
2020-01-01T19:30:04 < Laurenceb> https://www.dailymail.co.uk/sciencetech/fb-5316997/WHAT-CUCKOLDING-GOOD-RELATIONSHIP.html
2020-01-01T19:30:53 < Thorn> https://www.crowdsupply.com/embedinn/iotsdr
2020-01-01T19:31:00 < Thorn> https://www.microchip.com/wwwproducts/en/AT86RF215
2020-01-01T19:32:02 < Laurenceb> impressive but limited bands
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2020-01-01T19:32:24 < Steffanx> They didnt even microchipify the datasheet yet. How?!
2020-01-01T19:34:10 < Laurenceb> impressive https://www.crowdsupply.com/fairwaves/xtrx
2020-01-01T19:37:16 < emeb> well, that's been around for almost 2 yrs.
2020-01-01T19:38:13 < Steffanx> you never told us emeb. damn you
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2020-01-01T19:38:53  * emeb hangs head in shame
2020-01-01T19:41:10 < Steffanx> Good new year emeb
2020-01-01T19:41:42 < emeb> Let's hope so Steffanx
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2020-01-01T19:44:32 < Steffanx> indeed
2020-01-01T19:46:11 < Thorn> what is this btw https://www.aliexpress.com/item/1000006292252.html
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2020-01-01T19:47:23 < emeb> just another ARM SBC with some added neural network stuff.
2020-01-01T19:47:47 < Laurenceb> https://pics.me.me/the-duck-face-selfie-thedarkcarnival28-the-cuck-face-selfie-31680731.png
2020-01-01T19:47:53 < doomba> fucking assholes
2020-01-01T19:48:23 < doomba> the pwm fan mystery is solved.
2020-01-01T19:48:31 < doomba> bad solder job
2020-01-01T19:48:35 < BrainDamage> I want a neutral network, one that doesn't show up in my search results
2020-01-01T19:49:38 < emeb> Youtube guy did a review of a similar one here - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ryTykjUbJIs
2020-01-01T19:50:12 < qyx> wait what
2020-01-01T19:50:15 < qyx> it has esata
2020-01-01T19:50:34 < BrainDamage> I have a sbc with sata too
2020-01-01T19:50:40 < BrainDamage> I use it as nas
2020-01-01T19:51:04 < emeb> I guess the VIM1 doesn't do NN tho. Just the VIM3
2020-01-01T19:51:06 < qyx> oh no, it is ethernet
2020-01-01T19:52:55 < emeb> BrainDamage: which SBC do you have w/ SATA?
2020-01-01T19:53:00 < Laurenceb> muh emdedded lunix
2020-01-01T19:53:24 < Laurenceb> muh 0 documentation and segfaults
2020-01-01T19:53:28 < BrainDamage> very old one, olinuxino lime2
2020-01-01T19:53:32 < qyx> wheres the VIM3 m.2 screw
2020-01-01T19:53:34 < emeb> ah
2020-01-01T19:53:45 < qyx> do you have to make:r it too with ductape?
2020-01-01T19:53:56 < BrainDamage> I'd like to replace it, but those seem to be pretty scarce
2020-01-01T19:54:11 < BrainDamage> also, I'm not aware of something equivalent to sata port multipliers for pci-e
2020-01-01T19:54:38 < qyx> there are pcie switches
2020-01-01T19:54:41 < BrainDamage> so cannot jump on the nvme bandwagon
2020-01-01T19:54:44 < BrainDamage> mmm
2020-01-01T19:54:48 < emeb> need more than one SSD?
2020-01-01T19:55:03 < qyx> https://www.aliexpress.com/item/32721079015.html
2020-01-01T19:55:29 < BrainDamage> yes, in the sense that I replace my storage at random
2020-01-01T19:55:40 < BrainDamage> and buying a huge one is not very economical
2020-01-01T19:55:58 < jpa-> how much storage do you need then?
2020-01-01T19:56:19 < BrainDamage> something larger than 3TB
2020-01-01T19:56:24 < BrainDamage> currently using spinning rust
2020-01-01T19:56:26 < qyx> I would accept a setup for ~4-8 m.2 NVMes
2020-01-01T19:56:26 < emeb> everyone tells me that it's fine to just use USB3 attached storage on an RPi4
2020-01-01T19:56:57 < BrainDamage> I guess I should try that, usb3 is way less shitty than 2
2020-01-01T19:57:06 < qyx> if such pcie switchies were obtainable
2020-01-01T19:59:09 < qyx> https://eu.mouser.com/ProductDetail/Broadcom-Avago/PEX8605-AB50NI-G?qs=sGAEpiMZZMvbYnN5EaJWBNPjb7nn8mWcR8zTPqaxBU0%3D
2020-01-01T19:59:12 < qyx> here we go
2020-01-01T19:59:39 < Steffanx> buy all 946 \o/
2020-01-01T20:06:38 < Thorn> can you fully fan out a 400 ball 0.8mm bga on 6 layers?
2020-01-01T20:11:00 < disposabled[m]> what is the best way to measure intervals that span seconds?
2020-01-01T20:11:46 < Laurenceb> >muh spinning rust
2020-01-01T20:16:53 < Thorn> disposabled[m]: iirc when you have short pulses you count the pulses using reference frequency to start & stop the counter. when you have long pulses it's the reverse. you count your reference frequency and use the pulse being measured to start & stop the counter
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2020-01-01T20:19:54 < qyx> disposabled[m]: a free running timer, timer input capture, capture the counter value and save it somewhere in an interrupt
2020-01-01T20:26:57 < disposabled[m]> @qyx do you mean to set a timer interrupt and increment some counter each time it is triggered?
2020-01-01T20:29:40 < qyx> no, free running timer increments its counter itself
2020-01-01T20:29:49 < qyx> based on the configured prescalers and other stuff
2020-01-01T20:30:29 < qyx> input capture function copies the current counter value to a capture register
2020-01-01T20:30:35 < qyx> and (optionally) fires an interrupt
2020-01-01T20:31:23 < qyx> in which you can use the captured counter value however you like
2020-01-01T20:33:11 < disposabled[m]> qyx: the prescaler is just some ratio of cycles/(counter increment)?
2020-01-01T20:34:50 < BrainDamage> disposabled[m]: in one case you start/stop a stopwatch, in the other case you look at wall clock and save 2 timestamps and subtract
2020-01-01T20:35:43 < disposabled[m]> BrainDamage: I guess my question is how to look at wall clock
2020-01-01T20:35:56 < BrainDamage> what qyx said
2020-01-01T20:36:26 < BrainDamage> prescaler is how your clock is divided before it hits the counter
2020-01-01T20:36:49 < BrainDamage> so if clock is 10MHz and your prescaler is 1000, the counter increments every 1/(10MHz/1000) s
2020-01-01T20:37:25 < BrainDamage> which limits your resolution, but allows larger values without saturation
2020-01-01T20:37:50 < BrainDamage> there's also the RTC if you want really long term counting
2020-01-01T20:39:42 < qyx> also 32bit timers
2020-01-01T20:43:30 < disposabled[m]> rtc has a 1 sec granularity?
2020-01-01T20:45:16 < mawk> that's the usage of rtc
2020-01-01T20:45:18 < mawk> traditionnally
2020-01-01T20:45:20 < mawk> so yes
2020-01-01T20:45:39 < mawk> if you query the "cmos" of a desktop computer you get the time right from the rtc in 1s granularity
2020-01-01T20:47:02 < qyx> iirc there are two prescalers, you can get 1/256s granularity
2020-01-01T20:47:14 < qyx> check it in the reference manual
2020-01-01T20:47:27 < qyx> I may be wrong(tm)
2020-01-01T21:02:14 < doomba> so much fucking autism over a pwm fan
2020-01-01T21:02:31 < doomba> it's working now... by the grace of a blown transistor
2020-01-01T21:04:01 < jadew> so what did you guys do today?
2020-01-01T21:04:25 < jadew> will you have a productive year?
2020-01-01T21:05:11 < englishman> played stardew valley
2020-01-01T21:05:14 < englishman> and yes
2020-01-01T21:05:38 < jadew> that looks fun
2020-01-01T21:05:52 < doomba> i went full retard on a rockpro64
2020-01-01T21:11:08 < Steffanx> Congratz englishman.
2020-01-01T21:11:25 < BrainDamage> starlink valley
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2020-01-01T21:11:46 < Steffanx> im surprised you did not say starjew value.
2020-01-01T21:14:53 < Steffanx> *valley.
2020-01-01T21:14:54 < Steffanx> lol
2020-01-01T21:18:30 < englishman> lol
2020-01-01T21:19:31 < BrainDamage> Steffanx: how often do you see me doing racist jokes?
2020-01-01T21:20:16 < mawk> you secretely laugh at all of them I'm sure
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2020-01-01T21:20:37 < mawk> your NSA brain implant shows the record
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2020-01-01T21:23:39 < Steffanx> i meant mr englishman, not you BrainDamage. 
2020-01-01T21:23:59 < Steffanx> nah, i dont mawk.
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2020-01-01T21:24:04 < englishman> racism is laughing matter
2020-01-01T21:24:16 < Thorn> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WYg5MdQdiYs
2020-01-01T21:24:26 < Steffanx> mawk: i always forget lol is intepreted as LOL, where in dutch "lol" is more like "hah".
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2020-01-01T21:25:52 < mawk> and lul ?
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2020-01-01T21:26:55 < Steffanx> no, not lol.
2020-01-01T21:26:58 < Steffanx> *lul
2020-01-01T21:27:00 < mawk> :(
2020-01-01T21:27:23 < mawk> the coax cable I made for the ziggo router works
2020-01-01T21:27:26 < mawk> I'm impressed
2020-01-01T21:27:40 < mawk> the contact area between the foil conductor and the connector is very tiny
2020-01-01T21:27:43 < Steffanx> The ziggo mechanic that did not come when he as supposed to is a "lul".
2020-01-01T21:27:44 < mawk> only a circle of metal
2020-01-01T21:27:54 < mawk> like a few µm²
2020-01-01T21:28:11 < mawk> for F connector
2020-01-01T21:28:22 < mawk> the other TV connector looks way more sturdy
2020-01-01T21:28:24 < mawk> yes
2020-01-01T21:28:25 < BrainDamage> I hope you're putting a bulkhead on the case
2020-01-01T21:28:39 < mawk> what's that
2020-01-01T21:28:56 < BrainDamage> oh nvm, misread
2020-01-01T21:29:48 < mawk> the F connector I have is not screwed on, just friction fit
2020-01-01T21:29:50 < mawk> it's odd
2020-01-01T21:29:56 < mawk> it's all wiggly and turns freely
2020-01-01T21:30:15 < BrainDamage> compression connector?
2020-01-01T21:30:19 < mawk> https://cablesupply.com/f-type-coaxial-compression-connector-10-pack/
2020-01-01T21:30:21 < mawk> like this
2020-01-01T21:30:23 < mawk> yes
2020-01-01T21:30:37 < mawk> I have another that is screwed on, but it's gold plated and someone says gold plated means it's bad
2020-01-01T21:31:04 < mawk> the page I linked says "Requires a coaxial compression tool to terminate."
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2020-01-01T21:31:11 < mawk> but I did it without a tool, I don't understand
2020-01-01T21:31:24 < mawk> maybe it's not the same kind
2020-01-01T21:31:27 < BrainDamage> it requires a tool to get a reliable connection
2020-01-01T21:31:45 < mawk> there was nothing to crimp or whatever, just push the cable into it and that's aklk
2020-01-01T21:31:46 < Steffanx> I never paid too much attention and never had issues. So far. :P
2020-01-01T21:31:50 < BrainDamage> same way you need a crimper for a reliable crimp, but you can still use pliers
2020-01-01T21:32:00 < mawk> I did it fully by hand
2020-01-01T21:32:03 < BrainDamage> compression connectors are not crimp
2020-01-01T21:32:10 < BrainDamage> you push them in indeed
2020-01-01T21:32:29 < mawk> also the videos I saw only said the connector must contact with the shield braid
2020-01-01T21:32:36 < mawk> but I did not do this, the braid is just falling apart
2020-01-01T21:32:44 < mawk> I made the connector contact the foil
2020-01-01T21:33:14 < englishman> i did it once and it worked for me. statistically, it should work for you too.
2020-01-01T21:33:33 < Steffanx> ^
2020-01-01T21:33:43 < mawk> good
2020-01-01T21:33:54 < mawk> multimeter shows 0 ohm when I did it
2020-01-01T21:33:57 < mawk> seems to works
2020-01-01T21:34:05 < mawk> and I have internet as slow as before, so nothing is broken
2020-01-01T21:34:40 < Steffanx> So still shitty internet.
2020-01-01T21:34:44 < mawk> yes
2020-01-01T21:34:55 < mawk> I will replace all the connectors I find between my flat and the ISP endpoint downstairs
2020-01-01T21:35:04 < mawk> since it's probably that and not the wires themselves, hopefully
2020-01-01T21:35:13 < mawk> then no need to pay a lully ziggo mechanic
2020-01-01T21:35:29 < Steffanx> pay?
2020-01-01T21:35:36 < mawk> yes
2020-01-01T21:35:37 < doomba> gay
2020-01-01T21:35:38 < Steffanx> what?
2020-01-01T21:36:05 < Steffanx> Do your neighbours have issues as well or is it just you mawk?
2020-01-01T21:36:32 < mawk> I don't know, but maybe the neighbors only took 50Mbps internet or whatever and did not notice it
2020-01-01T21:36:44 < mawk> yes I'd need to pay if it is to replace cables that are no ziggo's property
2020-01-01T21:36:44 < Steffanx> and everything between you and down stairs is owned by you?
2020-01-01T21:36:48 < mawk> it's like 30€/hr or something
2020-01-01T21:36:58 < mawk> + 80€ intervention fee etc
2020-01-01T21:37:48 < Steffanx> Cant you blame it on the landlord?
2020-01-01T21:37:53 < mawk> yeah
2020-01-01T21:37:59 < mawk> he said "send me the bill when the mechanics comes"
2020-01-01T21:38:04 < Steffanx> ah cool
2020-01-01T21:38:13 < mawk> the previous tenant was using PLC
2020-01-01T21:38:20 < Steffanx> PLC?
2020-01-01T21:38:24 < mawk> powerline communication
2020-01-01T21:38:28 < mawk> ethernet over powerline, whatever
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2020-01-01T21:39:00 < Steffanx> Never heard of an ISP using that.
2020-01-01T21:39:09 < mawk> it's not with the isp
2020-01-01T21:39:11 < mawk> it's for your house
2020-01-01T21:39:13 < Steffanx> or how that is related then :P
2020-01-01T21:39:20 < mawk> plug ethernet cable in one power outlet, retrieve it from another
2020-01-01T21:39:28 < doomba> yeah those things are s obad
2020-01-01T21:39:32 < mawk> and if you're lucky and the two outlets are not separated by the fuse box, you get good speed
2020-01-01T21:39:35 < Steffanx> Yes, but i missed how that is related to ziggo issues.
2020-01-01T21:39:49 < mawk> well since the wiring is bad between the ziggo endpoint and the flat, the PLC was used to bypass this wiring
2020-01-01T21:39:53 < mawk> and use powerline instead of shitty coax
2020-01-01T21:39:58 < mawk> and it seemed to work
2020-01-01T21:40:17 < Steffanx> hm
2020-01-01T21:40:35 < mawk> but I don't like it
2020-01-01T21:40:35 < Steffanx> People are weird. Let's work around the issues instead of getting it fixed.
2020-01-01T21:40:39 < mawk> to get top speed it's very expensive
2020-01-01T21:40:55 < mawk> like 200€ for two PLC devices for 1Gbps last time I checked
2020-01-01T21:41:18 < mawk> yeah
2020-01-01T21:41:40 < BrainDamage> why not just wire the house with ethernet
2020-01-01T21:41:46 < mawk> so battle plan is replace coax connectors everywhere I find them, and if that doesn't work I'll put the ziggo box in bridge mode downstairs, put my own router upstairs, and use ethernet cabling in between
2020-01-01T21:41:50 < mawk> if I can make them pass through the pipe
2020-01-01T21:41:55 < mawk> I'm just renting
2020-01-01T21:42:01 < mawk> and I'm at the 2th floor
2020-01-01T21:42:06 < mawk> ISP endpoint is downstairs
2020-01-01T21:42:11 < mawk> at the 0th floor
2020-01-01T21:42:37 < BrainDamage> you can discuss it with the landlord
2020-01-01T21:42:53 < BrainDamage> he pays the material, you do the labor
2020-01-01T21:42:55 < mawk> his solution is to fix the coax
2020-01-01T21:42:57 < mawk> yeah
2020-01-01T21:43:02 < mawk> could try tht
2020-01-01T21:43:12 < mawk> I say that I did it myself so it's cheaper than ziggo, and he pays the material
2020-01-01T21:43:18 < Steffanx> Did you try your modem downstairs?
2020-01-01T21:43:29 < mawk> no but the previous tenant said it works
2020-01-01T21:43:31 < mawk> for full speed
2020-01-01T21:43:39 < mawk> he had his modem downstairs and PLC to communicate with upstairs
2020-01-01T21:43:41 < Steffanx> i wouldnt trust them :P
2020-01-01T21:43:46 < mawk> lol
2020-01-01T21:43:58 < mawk> yes I should try myself
2020-01-01T21:44:21 < Steffanx> LOL or hah?
2020-01-01T21:44:31 < mawk> lhahol
2020-01-01T21:44:38 < BrainDamage> hentai at home?
2020-01-01T21:45:06 < mawk> Hentai@Home
2020-01-01T21:45:11 < mawk> scientific project
2020-01-01T21:45:22 < BrainDamage> it's written like that
2020-01-01T21:45:24 < BrainDamage> it exists
2020-01-01T21:45:29 < mawk> LaundryFolding@Home
2020-01-01T21:45:33 < mawk> project for women
2020-01-01T21:45:40 < mawk> to advance molecular biology research
2020-01-01T21:45:42 < BrainDamage> it's a p2p project to host hentai
2020-01-01T21:45:47 < mawk> lol really ?
2020-01-01T21:45:51 < BrainDamage> yes
2020-01-01T21:46:11 < Steffanx> do i even want to know?
2020-01-01T21:46:12 < BrainDamage> the 3 pillars of society: libgen, scihub, and exhentai
2020-01-01T21:46:16 < Steffanx> or BrainDamage in the network?
2020-01-01T21:46:39 < BrainDamage> hey, the tech behind it is interesting
2020-01-01T21:47:36 < Steffanx> ok ok :P
2020-01-01T21:48:31 < disposabled[m]> How many gpio actions can an stm32f1 pack into a single cycle. read pin, set pin, etc?
2020-01-01T21:48:51 < BrainDamage> mawk: https://ehwiki.org/wiki/Hentai@Home
2020-01-01T21:49:00 < mawk> max gpio action speed is clock/2 disposabled[m] 
2020-01-01T21:49:08 < mawk> so, 0.5 I guess ?
2020-01-01T21:49:12 < mawk> yes I'm on that page
2020-01-01T21:49:23 < BrainDamage> they also have a rpg that uses that stats
2020-01-01T21:49:30 < mawk> hentai rpg
2020-01-01T21:51:37 < disposabled[m]> and if it has to decode a quadrature encoder, for instance, that would take many more cycles?
2020-01-01T21:52:27 < Steffanx> some stm32s can decode it for you using a timer. but i dont think the F1 has that.
2020-01-01T21:52:37 < disposabled[m]> it can
2020-01-01T21:53:23 < disposabled[m]> but that's still going to take some cycles for each decode, right?
2020-01-01T21:53:35 < mawk> probably
2020-01-01T21:54:15 < aandrew> you're talking a regular old quadrature encoder?
2020-01-01T21:54:25 < disposabled[m]> yes
2020-01-01T21:54:30 < aandrew> use an external xor gate and bring in one of the encoder lines and the output of the xor
2020-01-01T21:54:49 < aandrew> use timer to capture the pulse width for "speed" and the xor output for direction
2020-01-01T21:55:44 < Steffanx> disposabled[m] if the timer has decoder support its done in hw.
2020-01-01T21:55:54 < disposabled[m]> aandrew: why that instead of using the built-in abilities?
2020-01-01T21:56:22 < aandrew> 14:52 < Steffanx> some stm32s can decode it for you using a timer. but i dont think the F1 has that.
2020-01-01T21:56:33 < aandrew> this is for the case where the hardware doesn't have the ability
2020-01-01T21:56:41 < disposabled[m]> Steffanx: I'm don't know enough to derive an answer to my question from your response
2020-01-01T21:57:01 < disposabled[m]> aandrew: the f1 has it
2020-01-01T21:57:19 < aandrew> also ot answer your question about how many IO actions it can do: DMA channels that can hit I/O + 1 (CPU)
2020-01-01T22:03:37 < disposabled[m]> I'm trying to do a simple control a process that may need to be corrected say 120/s. If it only takes 100 cycles per correction, I only need to run 12KHz, right?
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2020-01-01T22:17:39 < bitmask> fatal flaw... not sure how this works
2020-01-01T22:17:50 < disposabled[m]> since the f1 runs at 72MHz, I could sleep almost 1.2 million cycles each loop?
2020-01-01T22:18:01 < bitmask> when a heating element is on the thermistor reading is gone
2020-01-01T22:25:52 < mawk> I guess yes disposabled[m] 
2020-01-01T22:26:57 < BrainDamage> bitmask: induction? you're driving quite a few A on one cable
2020-01-01T22:27:16 < bitmask> yea, I dont know enough about it to know what the reasoning behind it is
2020-01-01T22:28:02 < BrainDamage> disconnect the thermostor and scope it
2020-01-01T22:28:11 < bitmask> I dont have a scope
2020-01-01T22:28:11 < BrainDamage> see the induced signal
2020-01-01T22:28:32 < BrainDamage> then take a stm32 and set the adc to 10MHz and feed the samples to the pc
2020-01-01T22:28:34 < BrainDamage> then plot them
2020-01-01T22:29:02 < BrainDamage> are you using the thermistor in a wien bridge?
2020-01-01T22:29:19 < bitmask> no
2020-01-01T22:29:56 < BrainDamage> just voltage divider?
2020-01-01T22:30:16 < bitmask> yup
2020-01-01T22:31:11 < BrainDamage> start by slapping a pair of capacitors in parallel to the resistors
2020-01-01T22:31:24 < bitmask> oh crap, did I miss this? I think theres 12v on the line
2020-01-01T22:32:02 < bitmask> maybe I knew that and forgot 
2020-01-01T22:32:24 < bitmask> maybe it was my plan to only measure when the heaters were off
2020-01-01T22:32:46 < BrainDamage> iirc we already mentioned that you should already measure when they are off
2020-01-01T22:32:51 < BrainDamage> because of interference
2020-01-01T22:33:29 < bitmask> yea, I remember that, but still wanted to try it, but its just gonna max out with it on
2020-01-01T22:33:48 < bitmask> guess i'll just turn it off for the sampling 
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2020-01-01T22:34:23 < BrainDamage> the thing will have so much thermal capacity that even if you turn it off for 1s it won't matter a lot
2020-01-01T22:34:51 < bitmask> yea, the duty cycle isn't gonna be 100% most of the time anyway
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2020-01-01T22:48:21 < disposabled[m]> how many adc does an f1 have??
2020-01-01T22:48:41 < Laurenceb> depends which f1?
2020-01-01T22:48:52 < disposabled[m]> f103
2020-01-01T22:48:53 < Laurenceb> 1 or 2 iirc
2020-01-01T22:49:17 < disposabled[m]> the RM refers to "the" ADC
2020-01-01T22:49:27 < disposabled[m]> so I guess just 1
2020-01-01T22:49:33 < Laurenceb> 1 iirc
2020-01-01T22:49:34 < Laurenceb> yeah
2020-01-01T22:49:39 < disposabled[m]> but it has 18 channels?
2020-01-01T22:49:48 < Laurenceb> yeah
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2020-01-01T22:57:59 < disposabled[m]> I'm trying to reconcile https://1.bp.blogspot.com/-HG2XzoFc6WU/XQIYKi8mehI/AAAAAAAADWU/2FOc2Tcpho8kA-_mfdfW5F83VJm27-mZgCLcBGAs/s1600/Bluepillpinout.gif with https://github.com/stm32-rs/stm32f1xx-hal/blob/master/examples/adc.rs
2020-01-01T22:58:24 < disposabled[m]> and the stm32f1xx-hal docs in general
2020-01-01T22:58:54 < disposabled[m]> the hal exposes ADC1, ADC2, and ADC3
2020-01-01T22:59:41 < disposabled[m]> but shouldn't there be at least 16 ADC channels? 18 really?
2020-01-01T23:03:57 < karlp> read the reference manual instead of reading blogs?
2020-01-01T23:04:09 < karlp> adc1 2 and 3 are adc peripherals
2020-01-01T23:04:19 < karlp> not externally mapped input channels to one or more of the peripherals
2020-01-01T23:35:23 < catphish> disposabled[m]: "channels" are time multiplexed inputs to the same ADC, those pins labelled ADC0-ADC9 can all be (optionally) connected to the same ADC and measured sequentially
2020-01-01T23:37:01 < catphish> to quote the RM: "Two 12-bit analog-to-digital converters are embedded into STM32F103xx performance line devices and each ADC shares up to 16 external channels"
2020-01-01T23:37:37 < catphish> if you use both ADCs, you can measure two pins (channels) at a time
2020-01-01T23:41:36 < zyp> to speak more generally, a chip usually have two-three ADC peripherals
2020-01-01T23:42:26 < zyp> each of them contains one converter and an input mux that can select between a bunch of channels, and also a sequencer that can run a series of conversions from several channels
2020-01-01T23:42:38 < zyp> then the input muxes connect to the physical pins
2020-01-01T23:42:52 < zyp> some pins can be connected to several ADCs, while some may only be connected to one
2020-01-01T23:43:11 < zyp> and some mux inputs are connected to internal signals, like the temperature sensor
2020-01-01T23:43:54 < Thorn> TIL (1) xtal selection / design for stm32 is no trivial matter; (2) you need a series resistor for it to work over the whole temp range
2020-01-01T23:44:17 < zyp> oh, is that what it's for?
2020-01-01T23:44:43 < zyp> what's the failure mode if you leave it out?
2020-01-01T23:45:11 < Thorn> I've never put any resistors on xtals before
2020-01-01T23:45:21 < zyp> me neither
2020-01-01T23:45:50 < zyp> but I've found out what happens if you fuck up the load capacitors
2020-01-01T23:45:55 < Thorn> loss of oscillation,  I've been told 
2020-01-01T23:46:48 < Thorn> Chinese xtals don't have enough data in datashits to calculate/simulate them, and you need a current probe to measure
2020-01-01T23:47:05 < zyp> I put half the correct load on a project once
2020-01-01T23:47:16 < zyp> it detuned the crystal by 0.025% or so
2020-01-01T23:47:37 < zyp> which totally fucked up the radio channel selection, since this was being multiplied up to 2.4GHz :)
2020-01-01T23:48:35 < AndrevS> That surely fucks up 
2020-01-01T23:48:36 < Thorn> another bit of wisdom that I received was "if you really need an accurate frequency, use an active oscillator"
2020-01-01T23:50:06 < AndrevS> The chinese xtals I've used so far were like, frequency, ppm, capacitance. I've been using the formula in the adafruit "choosing the right crystal" article. 
2020-01-01T23:53:06 < zyp> 0.025% would probably be unnoticeable in most projects
2020-01-01T23:55:53 < AndrevS> Indeed... unless you're going to do radio, I doubt you would notice. 
2020-01-01T23:57:15 < AndrevS> And the only thing I've done 2.4 GHz on are nRF52 chips, in a module, so the crystal is taken care of. 
2020-01-01T23:57:55 < zyp> I think my project were using nrf24ap2
2020-01-01T23:58:33 < zyp> IIRC that was before BLE chips were available
--- Day changed Thu Jan 02 2020
2020-01-02T00:01:04 < AndrevS> I've done nRF24lu1p in the past. Been using Enhanced Shockburst, and that was the microcontroller with usb and radio support, to create a dongle. 
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2020-01-02T00:01:25 < zyp> nrf24ap2 was an ANT radio
2020-01-02T00:01:51 < mawk> ANT is cool
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2020-01-02T00:02:43 < zyp> isn't it mostly killed off by BLE now?
2020-01-02T00:04:12 < zyp> the phone I bought ten years ago had ANT support, but I've never seen any phones lately advertise that
2020-01-02T00:04:51 < kakisemipro> phones 10years ago had wildest shit
2020-01-02T00:05:11 < Steffanx> Even a sauna?
2020-01-02T00:05:12 < kakisemipro> nobody was not sure that what it supposed to be
2020-01-02T00:05:16 < AndrevS> I've never seen ANT other then on the Nordic website as one of the supported protocols. 
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2020-01-02T00:08:32 < karlp> AndrevS: it's still in use for sport shit
2020-01-02T00:08:46 < karlp> bike power meters, and chhest heart meters and sports watches and shit
2020-01-02T00:09:20 < zyp> isn't BLE competing there?
2020-01-02T00:12:12 < AndrevS> I guess, seeing the standard ble profiles being for heart rate and things like that. 
2020-01-02T00:12:49 < karlp> ble is killing it yes, but it's still there.
2020-01-02T00:16:23 < zyp> hmm
2020-01-02T00:17:17 < zyp> I figure if I'm gonna make a network card with optional PoE support, the most sensible thing to do is probably just to provide a spot to solder something like this: https://www.aliexpress.com/i/33038562052.html
2020-01-02T00:22:09 < qyx> doesnt meanwell has something similar?
2020-01-02T00:22:21 < qyx> a bit less chinish
2020-01-02T00:22:43 < zyp> smaller would be good too
2020-01-02T00:24:02 < zyp> I figure the rpi cm card and the ethernet card are gonna define the standard form factor of my plug in cards, since they are the largest ones I have in mind
2020-01-02T00:25:50 < zyp> I guess the socket for the rpi cm is like 70-something mm long, so smaller than that is gonna be hard
2020-01-02T00:26:50 < zyp> but it doesn't need a lot of connectors, so that's not a concern
2020-01-02T00:43:11 < qyx> I have 70.8mm long card
2020-01-02T00:43:31 < qyx> DDR2 sockets are 70.something and 71.something wide
2020-01-02T00:43:42 < zyp> heh
2020-01-02T00:43:50 < qyx> I would go for 74mm to habe some jeadroom!
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2020-01-02T00:44:07 < zyp> I'm flexible on depth anyway
2020-01-02T00:44:11 < qyx> you can parse it hgopefully
2020-01-02T00:44:19 < BrainDamage> that's what she said
2020-01-02T00:44:41 < zyp> hmm
2020-01-02T00:45:10 < zyp> looks like RT9400 (af) and RT5400 (at) can use the same footprint
2020-01-02T01:08:35 < kakisemipro> how is innovation qyx?
2020-01-02T01:08:48 < qyx> stalling
2020-01-02T01:08:57 < kakisemipro> I paused the development
2020-01-02T01:09:25 < kakisemipro> what are you stalled at?
2020-01-02T01:09:43 < qyx> I haven't seen my PC during the whole christmas
2020-01-02T01:09:43 < kakisemipro> architectural problems?
2020-01-02T01:09:47 < kakisemipro> oh
2020-01-02T01:10:03 < qyx> zyp is going to be faster
2020-01-02T01:10:42 < qyx> I have a couple of other projects to do too
2020-01-02T01:10:47 < kakisemipro> it's a competition
2020-01-02T01:10:55 < kakisemipro> I dont
2020-01-02T01:11:02 < kakisemipro> tell me about
2020-01-02T01:11:21 < qyx> work related
2020-01-02T01:11:32 < qyx> one is capsense water level sensing
2020-01-02T01:12:03 < qyx> this one is not for work though
2020-01-02T01:16:16 < Steffanx> so hows the motopet thingy going kakisemipro?
2020-01-02T01:16:28 < Thorn> https://www.aliexpress.com/item/4000475563239.html 
2020-01-02T01:16:56 < Steffanx> Clicking those aliexpress link.. always wonder why it is to mess up my "for you"-page
2020-01-02T01:17:21 < Thorn> >digital multimeter & bluetooth speaker
2020-01-02T01:18:17 < BrainDamage> I want a coffee pot with a scope function
2020-01-02T01:19:12 < Thorn> I've been looking for a bench dmm with a good display and there're not many under $500 lol
2020-01-02T01:20:12 < zyp> qyx, idk about that, I feel I'm just branching out rather than finishing stuff
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2020-01-02T01:22:21 < qyx> Thorn: same here
2020-01-02T01:22:28 < qyx> zyp: same here :S
2020-01-02T01:22:54 < qyx> Thorn: I felt owon may have some, but $$ too
2020-01-02T01:23:34 < qyx> I may grab some agilent/keysight stuff for 700e as well
2020-01-02T01:31:54 < qyx> heh multicomp https://sk.farnell.com/multicomp-pro/mp730027-eu-uk/digital-multimeter-bench-10a-1kv/dp/3107585
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2020-01-02T02:04:20 < jadew> that multicomp stuff looks like rebaranded siglent or something
2020-01-02T02:04:36 < jadew> and it looks shit
2020-01-02T02:04:56 < jadew> unpolished UI
2020-01-02T02:05:03 < jadew> the hardware is probably the same
2020-01-02T02:05:11 < Steffanx> But we can hack it to make it better right? :D
2020-01-02T02:05:19 < jadew> right :)
2020-01-02T02:06:06 < Steffanx> Agilent/keithley also rebrand siglent stuff (or whatever they do to make it look exactly the same).
2020-01-02T02:06:23 < jadew> haha, that would be something
2020-01-02T02:06:34 < jadew> siglent is just blatantly copying them
2020-01-02T02:06:48 < Steffanx> Im not so sure about that
2020-01-02T02:07:10 < jadew> I am, all siglent's stuff came years after the keysight ones
2020-01-02T02:07:18 < jadew> and the UI was (and still is) shit
2020-01-02T02:07:27 < jadew> compared to the keysight ones anyway
2020-01-02T02:07:33 < Steffanx> Im still not convinced. 
2020-01-02T02:07:40 < jadew> also, the specs are different
2020-01-02T02:08:45 < jadew> keysight's specs are more conservative and sometimes you can see what looks like a worse IC in a keysight equipment vs china stuff, but the keysight one behaves much better
2020-01-02T02:09:10 < jadew> but the china brand wins on specs and steals their market
2020-01-02T02:09:31 < aandrew> the best part in a shit layout or given bad power can't perform as needed
2020-01-02T02:09:48 < Steffanx> Nah im not going to google it. fuck it :P
2020-01-02T02:10:00 < jadew> Steffanx, google what?
2020-01-02T02:10:12 < Steffanx> The proof that you're wrong. About who was first etc. :P
2020-01-02T02:10:35 < jadew> oh, I know for a fact, because I have keysight equipment that went out years before siglent came up with their copy
2020-01-02T02:11:21 < Steffanx> Perhaps we're not talking about the same equipment then
2020-01-02T02:11:24 < jadew> they used to have Rigol build their scopes like... 10 or 15 years ago
2020-01-02T02:11:57 < jadew> which is what gave Rigol the know-how they needed to steal a huge chunk of the market from them
2020-01-02T02:12:23 < jadew> and LeCroy used to rebrand Siglents (or they had them build them, don't know)
2020-01-02T02:12:23 < mawk> why no lawsuit
2020-01-02T02:12:53 < jadew> mawk, I don't know
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2020-01-02T02:13:48 < jadew> anyway...
2020-01-02T02:14:21 < jadew> my custom high quality cables and connectors arrived yesterday
2020-01-02T02:15:29 < jadew> and I'm thinking it's going to be difficult to make a profit on them
2020-01-02T02:18:39 < Steffanx> So why did you get em?
2020-01-02T02:18:56 < jadew> Steffanx, I didn't do the math upfront
2020-01-02T02:19:07 < Steffanx> oops
2020-01-02T02:19:49 < jadew> I mean.. I kinda knew where it would land, but I have a much better understanding of the typical customer now (had a couple of weeks of reflection on the subject)
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2020-01-02T02:20:12 < dale6998> hey what's up?
2020-01-02T02:20:25 < jadew> I believe people would rather buy garbage that seems reasonably priced, and hope it will do a good job, than pay an actually fair price and get a quality product
2020-01-02T02:20:52 < dale6998> do you guys have any advice for including an arduino library in a C project with gcc?
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2020-01-02T02:23:04 < jadew> yes, google and perhaps #avr
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2020-01-02T02:32:47 < dale6998> i found this :  https://isocpp.org/wiki/faq/mixing-c-and-cpp#c-calls-cpp
2020-01-02T02:33:10 < dale6998> it looks like it's saying to sprinkle some extern C around and that should be a good start
2020-01-02T02:37:05 < englishman> https://i.imgur.com/O2REwHF.png
2020-01-02T02:42:19 < jadew> is that old? because it looks very accurate
2020-01-02T02:43:03 < jadew> https://i.imgur.com/qplQWtC.mp4
2020-01-02T02:44:17 < BrainDamage> bottom left, see the copyright
2020-01-02T02:44:42 < jadew> jeez, someone was a visionary
2020-01-02T02:45:05 < jadew> although, people were kind of obsessed with VR in the 90's
2020-01-02T02:45:18 < jadew> VR and AI
2020-01-02T02:45:50 < jadew> that reminds me of a movie with a guy that goes back in time with his car
2020-01-02T02:46:10 < jadew> and picks up a chick and she thinks she's flying
2020-01-02T02:46:14 < jadew> I want to see that movie
2020-01-02T02:48:31 < jadew> might have been an the outer limits episode, but I'm not sure
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2020-01-02T03:35:33 < dale6998> still got that CD tho
2020-01-02T03:51:43 -!- dale6998 [~dale6998@98.11.97.28] has quit [Quit: leaving]
2020-01-02T03:55:43 < jadew> anyone got a better suggestion for a title? https://cojotech.com/sma-bblk-1-sma-jack-to-jack-with-bnc-bulkhead-hole-adapter
2020-01-02T03:57:01 < doomba> SMH Jack my Swag BNC-Butthole adapter
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2020-01-02T04:23:23 < jadew> I'm off to bed, night
2020-01-02T04:27:36 < Steffanx> You're early jadew 
2020-01-02T04:28:23 < jadew> I'm trying to get a normal sleep schedule
2020-01-02T04:29:22 < Steffanx> Hah
2020-01-02T04:29:35 < Steffanx> Goodluck \o
2020-01-02T04:29:42 < jadew> heh
2020-01-02T04:29:45 < jadew> thanks
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2020-01-02T06:24:46 < Laurenceb> https://www.openstreetmap.org/#map=13/51.0069/-0.1250
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2020-01-02T09:02:14 < dongs> sup dongs
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2020-01-02T09:43:28 < Cracki> down with insurance companies
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2020-01-02T12:28:49 < jly> Steffanx could you stop calling me 
2020-01-02T12:29:15 < Steffanx> But you have to get inside jly. It's dark already
2020-01-02T12:29:33 < karlp> get inside before he burns
2020-01-02T12:29:39 < jly> lol
2020-01-02T12:29:47 < jly> australia
2020-01-02T12:32:27 < Steffanx> Yeah we wouldn't want jly to turn into a crusty crab 
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2020-01-02T12:42:58 < jly> ty for jly
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2020-01-02T18:31:35 < karlp> ok, esxi password recovery complete.
2020-01-02T18:31:52 < karlp> turns out this damn machine was only running something obsolete anyway. what a joyous time
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2020-01-02T18:48:41 < Cracki> til: one electric stove can be given 3phase, 2phase, or 1phase. I always thought they always want 3phase...
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2020-01-02T18:50:24 < AndrevS> Not every house has 3 phase, at least not here in the Netherlands. 
2020-01-02T18:50:46 < con3> yeah we only have single 
2020-01-02T18:50:52 < AndrevS> Something to keep in mind when moving, don't just plug it in, check it first 
2020-01-02T18:51:05 < Cracki> I grew up in the city. I always thought you get 3phase and nothing less
2020-01-02T18:51:16 < Cracki> but this place here has 1phase per flat
2020-01-02T18:51:37 < Cracki> stuff was in place when I moved in *shrug*
2020-01-02T18:51:38 < BrainDamage> here every house is wired 3 phase to the premises, but you get only one phase wired to the home, unless you pay extra
2020-01-02T18:52:22 < con3> BrainDamage: I think that's exactly how ours is as well
2020-01-02T18:52:23 < AndrevS> Same here
2020-01-02T18:52:54 < Thorn> I've got 2 phases entering my apartment
2020-01-02T18:53:06 < Cracki> dude on yt shows a diagram placard on a stove. it has variants for "3N~", 2N~, single phase + N/L2, and 3~ (no neutral at all)
2020-01-02T18:53:21 < Thorn> one half gets one phase, the other half gets the other phase
2020-01-02T18:53:26 < BrainDamage> no neutral requires perfectly balanced phases
2020-01-02T18:53:38 < BrainDamage> something that ... doesn't happen
2020-01-02T18:53:46 < Cracki> looks iffy
2020-01-02T18:54:43 < AndrevS> There are places that have an old style network where the mains voltage is between two phases. Most of those networks are phased out, but they still exist in some places, I believe one can find those in Belgium. 
2020-01-02T18:54:45 < Cracki> (all have PE connected of course)
2020-01-02T18:55:02 < Cracki> uh, sounds like 110/120 volts?
2020-01-02T18:55:22 < Cracki> that's what muricans have to do to get 240 volts, use two phases instead of phase+N
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2020-01-02T18:55:35 < BrainDamage> phase-phase gives you 380V, americans use split phase
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2020-01-02T18:55:53 < BrainDamage> americans use 380V 3phase like eu, but each leg is split in half
2020-01-02T18:56:23 < BrainDamage> so the 220 arm gives you 2x120 with a centre tap
2020-01-02T18:56:44  * con3 hides
2020-01-02T18:56:44 < AndrevS> A 127/220 volt network, as found in some Belgium cities, cause a problem for electrics cars which attempt to detect the NULL line, and fail to charge because it's not present. 
2020-01-02T18:57:12 < Cracki> good to know. from what I heard so far, I thought three phase ("rotating" current) is "special" and everyone gets some kind of two phase ("alternating")
2020-01-02T18:58:02 < Cracki> waaaait so they split their phases... but what about neutral then
2020-01-02T18:58:11 < Cracki> if one takes just one half of a phase
2020-01-02T18:58:34 < BrainDamage> they have to use decoupling transformers to derive the centre tap neutral
2020-01-02T18:58:43 < BrainDamage> hence why you see so many "pole pigs"
2020-01-02T18:59:08 < Cracki> mindboggling
2020-01-02T19:01:49 < BrainDamage> then you have all this sort of insanity
2020-01-02T19:01:50 < BrainDamage> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Earthing_system?wprov=srpw1_0#Low-voltage_systems
2020-01-02T19:02:36 < Cracki> so my meter only had connections to PE and L1, no neutral...
2020-01-02T19:02:45 < Cracki> (they just changed it)
2020-01-02T19:03:10 < Cracki> pe looks like it's just a connection, L1 was obviously two separate terminals
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2020-01-02T19:04:50 < Cracki> I'm guessing the part of the wiring that's outside the home just uses PE=N?
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2020-01-02T19:06:05 < BrainDamage> huh, that's kind of nonstandard, I mean, wiring PE to N is standard, but they still should wire both separately
2020-01-02T19:06:34 < Cracki> ah, it's because this house is from around 1900... and the landlord is too cheap to update the wiring :>
2020-01-02T19:07:12 < AndrevS> Up to the, not sure what's it called in english, earth leakage detector circuit breaker, they can be the same
2020-01-02T19:07:30 < Cracki> I saw two PE-colored wires. it may be that one was N and they dgaf about colors...
2020-01-02T19:07:57 < AndrevS> At times I still find houses that have pre-1970 wires with the old colours
2020-01-02T19:08:04 < Cracki> yes, that's what I figured. "ground fault" is a thing to protect normies
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2020-01-02T19:08:31 < AndrevS> When a fried was asking me how to wire a new ceiling fan, wondering about the colours.... 
2020-01-02T19:09:32 < BrainDamage> and then you have british with ring circuits
2020-01-02T19:09:42 < BrainDamage> which makes everyone else look sane in comparison
2020-01-02T19:10:06 < Cracki> I heard horror stories about meter changes where the technician fucked it up royally and people lost their N, or phases and N were mixed up and everything ran on higher voltage
2020-01-02T19:10:26 < Cracki> but it's probably impossible to fuck up four wires having two color codes
2020-01-02T19:10:42 < Cracki> ring circuits, sounds like christmas lighting
2020-01-02T19:10:56 < BrainDamage> that's how the house ends up if the ring breaks
2020-01-02T19:11:05 < Cracki> cascade failure :D
2020-01-02T19:11:39 < AndrevS> ring circuits... oh god how does that work? 
2020-01-02T19:12:07 < BrainDamage> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Ring_circuit.svg
2020-01-02T19:12:23 < BrainDamage> to save on copper they loop back the connection
2020-01-02T19:12:40 < BrainDamage> problem: wires are now sized to half the ampacity they should
2020-01-02T19:12:57 < BrainDamage> if the connection of one phase / socket breaks, you suddendly have undersized wires
2020-01-02T19:13:32 < BrainDamage> not to mention, it forms a giant antenna in the flying face of any EMI compliance
2020-01-02T19:14:06 < BrainDamage> the only advantage they have is that gnd has less risk of faults
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2020-01-02T19:14:42 < BrainDamage> ( since gnd's only role is to trip the RCD, rather than carry current )
2020-01-02T19:15:09 < BrainDamage> in a ring circuit every junction is critical for the system
2020-01-02T19:15:31 < AndrevS> I see. What kind of wire do they use in the UK? Here we use 2.5mm^2 solid core wire. 
2020-01-02T19:16:25 < BrainDamage> I don't remember, I can tell you that plugs are massively overengineered to compensate for that
2020-01-02T19:16:37 < BrainDamage> here's 2.5mm^2 stranded
2020-01-02T19:17:17 < BrainDamage> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Three_pin_mains_plug_(UK).svg
2020-01-02T19:17:26 < BrainDamage> each uk plug has a builtin fuse
2020-01-02T19:17:42 < BrainDamage> and the socket won't connect the power unless PE pin is inserted
2020-01-02T19:17:47 < qyx> Cracki: dont you in .de use TNC-S?
2020-01-02T19:18:02 < qyx> ie. PEN outside, split inside the building, then PE, N, L
2020-01-02T19:18:11 < Cracki> no clue. I'm sure there are exceptions "because reasons"
2020-01-02T19:18:12 < AndrevS> Ah yeah the built in fuse, and polarised plugs. 
2020-01-02T19:18:39 < BrainDamage> here sockets are unpolarized, but code mandates that switches break both 'phases'
2020-01-02T19:19:07 < BrainDamage> which makes perfect sense because N sometimes is not that low in voltage
2020-01-02T19:19:12 < BrainDamage> esp under load
2020-01-02T19:19:31 < AndrevS> Unpolarised as well. Schuko sockets here... 
2020-01-02T19:20:08 < Cracki> breaking both makes sense... if it's an extension cord plugged in wrong for example
2020-01-02T19:20:12 < Cracki> ("wrong")
2020-01-02T19:21:47 < qyx> we have polarised shuko
2020-01-02T19:21:56 < qyx> breaking only L
2020-01-02T19:22:18 < qyx> yeah, on extension cords both have to be switched
2020-01-02T19:22:37 < qyx> also there is no exact (ie. a norm) definition which one is L and N
2020-01-02T19:22:50 < qyx> L is wired to the left historically
2020-01-02T19:23:02 < Cracki> good mnemonic
2020-01-02T19:23:11 < qyx> heh
2020-01-02T19:23:46 < Cracki> i get irritated when people talk about "hot" and "cold"...
2020-01-02T19:32:40 < karlp> qyx: good luck if you think that's useful for anything though :)
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2020-01-02T19:45:12 < Thorn> is string theory still viable?
2020-01-02T19:49:28 < antto> only if they keep strumming it
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2020-01-02T20:31:53 < qyx> karlp: what, L on the left?
2020-01-02T21:02:16 < qyx> ok, so any experience with china NVMe?
2020-01-02T21:03:43 < qyx> such as KingSpec M2 SSD PCIe 120GB 240GB 1tb
2020-01-02T21:04:33 < qyx> or Lexar
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2020-01-02T21:37:24 < Ultrasauce> i have a 'shark' one and it seems to work fine
2020-01-02T21:37:47 < Ultrasauce> https://www.amazon.ca/gp/product/B07JLLLWKR/
2020-01-02T21:38:17 < Ultrasauce> oh thats sata and i didnt even notice
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2020-01-02T21:46:36 < qyx> looks like the price difference between sata/pcie on aliexperss is negligible
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2020-01-02T22:22:29 < qyx> PI7C9X2G404SV is exactly what I am searching for
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2020-01-02T23:23:27 < specing> qyx: above cca 128 GB the price difference to western brand names is negligeable
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2020-01-02T23:38:33 < Laurenceb>  Jesus was Joseph's wife's son
2020-01-02T23:38:33 < Laurenceb> Christians celebrate getting literally cucked by god
2020-01-02T23:46:21 < Steffanx> Ty
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2020-01-03T00:41:40 < kakisemipro> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LuMIrHlAf2Q
2020-01-03T00:52:55 < Steffanx> ty kakisemipro. where have you been ?!
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2020-01-03T02:21:11 < jadew> sup?
2020-01-03T02:29:35 < qyx> https://i.imgur.com/IrL8dYk.png
2020-01-03T02:29:36 < qyx> innovating
2020-01-03T02:31:11 < jadew> that's good
2020-01-03T02:33:37 < qyx> where are IoT'ers
2020-01-03T02:33:47 < qyx> any suggestions for lte-m and nb-iot modules
2020-01-03T02:35:38 < qyx> The package (LCC part) of SIM7020G is compatible with
2020-01-03T02:35:40 < qyx> SIM800C (2G module with LCC package).
2020-01-03T02:35:44 < qyx> probably a winner
2020-01-03T02:41:48 < karlp> what are you going to run on the host?
2020-01-03T02:42:11 < karlp> the onion can do a lot, but... not sure I'd be designing it in
2020-01-03T02:43:44 < karlp> have you used that platform before?
2020-01-03T02:44:27 < karlp> like, yes, you _can_ use python and go and nodejs, but you might not be all that happy with it...
2020-01-03T02:47:30 < qyx> it is based on openwrt, so hopefully all my openwrt knowledge applies
2020-01-03T02:48:21 < qyx> this should do it http://downloads.openwrt.org/releases/18.06.5/targets/ramips/mt76x8/openwrt-18.06.5-ramips-mt76x8-omega2-squashfs-sysupgrade.bin
2020-01-03T02:49:12 < qyx> although I am still not entirely sure how to unbrick the thing
2020-01-03T02:49:19 < qyx> Bootloader:
2020-01-03T02:49:20 < qyx>     U-Boot
2020-01-03T02:49:23 < qyx> oh noice
2020-01-03T02:50:35 < qyx> also if I want that damned pcie for wireless (avoiding usb), there are not many options left
2020-01-03T02:50:47 < qyx> I'll try and see
2020-01-03T03:02:50 < karlp> why are you buying an mt7688 if you aren't going to use it's wireless?
2020-01-03T03:02:58 < karlp> only upside of that sort of platform is wifi is built in
2020-01-03T03:06:35 < qyx> I am, the minipci-e is for expansion only
2020-01-03T03:07:01 < qyx> also bgn
2020-01-03T03:07:03 < karlp> so why are you so fixed on pcie for wireless?
2020-01-03T03:07:21 < qyx> because high power 5G and similar stuff
2020-01-03T03:08:26 < qyx> thats not meant to reach things within a single room
2020-01-03T03:08:39 < qyx> like a toy-level 802.11b/g/n usually does
2020-01-03T03:09:02 < qyx> it is going to be used as a data uplink
2020-01-03T03:10:20 < qyx> I am not fixed, I just know that I can rely on qualcomm/atheros cards to get 20km+ links within regulatory limits
2020-01-03T03:12:12 < qyx> also the mediatek is meant to do networking, which a random broadcom on a raspberry pi is not
2020-01-03T03:12:38 < qyx> eg. it has ethernet phy
2020-01-03T03:12:48 < qyx> more than one actually
2020-01-03T03:14:21 < qyx> also I am not going to use a non-linux device for high level networking for obvious reasons
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2020-01-03T03:27:20 < specing> its quite funny that broadcom's SoC has crippled networking
2020-01-03T03:29:06 < qyx> yeah, not even a proper ethernet (the earlier rpi's)
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2020-01-03T03:36:17 < bitmask> well adding a pair of transistors to reduce battery drain through a voltage divider to measure the battery was a waste
2020-01-03T03:36:28 < bitmask> I just get tons of noise
2020-01-03T03:36:38 < bitmask> if I keep it enabled it works fine though
2020-01-03T03:38:31 < specing> bitmask: a pair? why a pair?
2020-01-03T03:39:25 < bitmask> pin controls an npn which controls a pnp which lets the voltage through to the adc
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2020-01-03T03:43:23 < specing> bitmask: maybe you should have used a fet?
2020-01-03T03:45:15 < bitmask> would that make a difference?
2020-01-03T03:45:37 < specing> I don't know
2020-01-03T03:46:05 < specing> I always thought a bjt amplifies input, while a fet pretends to be a small resistor
2020-01-03T03:46:31 < bitmask> if you run a bjt in saturation mode it acts as a switch
2020-01-03T03:46:57 < specing> but if your resistor divider has a high enough resistance, then the few ohms from the logic level fet shouldnt not matter
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2020-01-03T05:40:06 < Jak_o_Shadows> Huh. You can get VGA out of the STM32F1
2020-01-03T05:40:14 < Jak_o_Shadows> that guys code on github basically just works
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2020-01-03T07:37:27 < Jak_o_Shadows> I figure "Let's try to learn a RTOS/lib". Hey, "Zephyr" seems new. Let's try that
2020-01-03T07:37:35 < Jak_o_Shadows> can't figure how how to define a freaking GPIO port
2020-01-03T08:04:55 < jpa-> is zephyr even supposed to have its own hal? isn't it just RTOS?
2020-01-03T08:06:15 < jpa-> (i.e. use whatever way to define gpio's you like, import STM32cube or chibios hal or laks or gpio.h or just use registers directly)
2020-01-03T08:08:39 < Cracki> wew those docs inspire confidence https://docs.zephyrproject.org/latest/samples/basic/button/README.html
2020-01-03T08:09:06 < Cracki> maybe it's just me and my dislike for grayish on grayish text
2020-01-03T08:10:11 < Cracki> lol https://github.com/zephyrproject-rtos/zephyr/blob/master/samples/basic/button/src/main.c
2020-01-03T08:10:33 < jpa-> so it does actually have drivers for abstraction
2020-01-03T08:10:39 < Cracki> the curse of too large a scope
2020-01-03T08:11:16 < jpa-> https://github.com/zephyrproject-rtos/zephyr/blob/master/drivers/gpio/gpio_stm32.c   drivers that wrap over stm32cube LL hal, that is
2020-01-03T08:11:38 < Cracki> this has not a single paragraph describing what's going on or how one is supposed to use it... just api barf. https://docs.zephyrproject.org/2.0.0/reference/peripherals/gpio.html
2020-01-03T08:12:42 < jpa-> well, combining with the examples it's not that hard to figure out
2020-01-03T08:13:05 < Cracki> how can they simultaneously take "portability" this seriously but also dgaf about actually abstracting
2020-01-03T08:13:51 < Cracki> doesn't strike me as ambitious, only as overextending
2020-01-03T08:14:04 < jpa-> that gpio stuff seems to be like it's pretty well abstracted
2020-01-03T08:14:15 < jpa-> can't abstract much further without making it useless
2020-01-03T08:22:42 < Jak_o_Shadows> I don't think i'm complaining about the implementation, just the docs.
2020-01-03T08:23:10 < Jak_o_Shadows> jpa- the pins come in from some pre-compliation magic in the examples - it makes definitions. That sort of stuff needs explanation.
2020-01-03T08:23:15 < Jak_o_Shadows> and like, a lot of it.
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2020-01-03T08:26:10 < jpa-> Jak_o_Shadows: you mean the zephyr devicetree stuff?
2020-01-03T08:26:16 < Jak_o_Shadows> yup
2020-01-03T08:26:22 < jpa-> yeah, i guess people have complained before also that it is pretty complex and involved
2020-01-03T08:26:42 < jpa-> https://docs.zephyrproject.org/latest/guides/dts/index.html   it does have a whole guide about it, though
2020-01-03T08:26:46 < Jak_o_Shadows> Like, I get why it's complex
2020-01-03T08:27:15 < jpa-> i don't
2020-01-03T08:27:46 < Jak_o_Shadows> Maybe not the device tree in itself, but i get the general bit about trying to make a not board/chip specific configurable layer thing
2020-01-03T08:27:58 < jpa-> but on the other hand, i'm kind of opposed to any complex HALs anyway, usually they just make things more difficult while failing to achieve portability for any non-trivial stuff
2020-01-03T08:29:30 < Jak_o_Shadows> I lean towards that approach - since functionality is multiplexed onto pins, you need to know what pins you're using anyway
2020-01-03T08:29:40 < Jak_o_Shadows> You can't just say "UART1" and "SPI1" - they might overlap
2020-01-03T08:30:44 < Cracki> how would a device tree help in solving that problem, the pin muxing
2020-01-03T08:32:23 < Cracki> or is that outside the purpose of a dt
2020-01-03T08:35:40 < Jak_o_Shadows> The pin muxing is the hardest part of the problem
2020-01-03T08:35:58 < Jak_o_Shadows> Why bother doing somethign complicated if you're not addressing that
2020-01-03T08:36:43 < Cracki> well DTs do help bring some order. every platform already agrees that peripherals have registers that are mapped in memory.
2020-01-03T08:36:57 < Cracki> and i'd rather have the simpler problem solved than neither
2020-01-03T08:37:43 < Cracki> imho companies have the right idea in that they recognize this problem requires a graphical interactive representation to be tractable
2020-01-03T08:38:07 < Cracki> leet haxxors who live in the matrix love their textual descriptions and commands to execute
2020-01-03T08:38:19 < Jak_o_Shadows> On my last project we were hand-creating the register mappings and all
2020-01-03T08:38:35 < Jak_o_Shadows> I'll be interested in seeing how that has evolved when I swing back onto late this year
2020-01-03T08:40:38 < jpa-> DT and similar approaches are great if you have an application that needs to run on very large range of boards but doesn't need any low-level hardware stuff on any of them; but most microcontroller applications end up being exactly the opposite
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2020-01-03T09:44:45 < jpa-> how would you people create a linear voltage regulator that is adjustable with DAC output?
2020-01-03T09:45:04 < jpa-> my initial thought would be to just use a beefy opamp, but they're quite costly
2020-01-03T09:48:29 < jpa-> i guess i could connect opamp output to GND pin of a LDO
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2020-01-03T10:22:49 < qyx> jpa-: ti has an appnote for it
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2020-01-03T10:23:41 < qyx> connect dac output to FB with a resistor
2020-01-03T10:24:08 < qyx> to feed some current
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2020-01-03T10:33:57 < jpa-> qyx: ok
2020-01-03T10:34:37 < qyx> it works, I did it even with a buck smps
2020-01-03T10:34:59 < qyx> pwm output with RC filter and resistor to FB works too
2020-01-03T10:35:05 < qyx> iirc dongs approved too
2020-01-03T10:40:50 < qyx> and i was told in the past that opamp in a voltage follower configuration doesn't want much capacitance on its output
2020-01-03T10:40:58 < qyx> tried and indeed it doesn't work
2020-01-03T10:44:42 < jpa-> yeah, it needs series resistor and gets annoying
2020-01-03T10:46:10 < jpa-> http://www.ti.com/lit/an/slva861/slva861.pdf   is this the appnote?
2020-01-03T10:46:42 < qyx> yes
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2020-01-03T12:17:46 < jadew> is there an OS I can install on an older tablet?
2020-01-03T12:18:41 < jadew> I have a thinkpad tablet that is stuck with android 4.0
2020-01-03T12:19:32 < doomba> planned obsolecense
2020-01-03T12:19:42 < jadew> yeah...
2020-01-03T12:19:59 < jadew> it was only good for a couple of years
2020-01-03T12:20:06 < jadew> and they only released two updates I think
2020-01-03T12:20:10 < jadew> then they stopped supporting it
2020-01-03T12:20:19 < jadew> lenovo is truly garbage now
2020-01-03T12:20:31 < jadew> well, they always were
2020-01-03T12:20:40 < jadew> but they destroyed the thinkpad brand
2020-01-03T12:39:30 < qyx> I installed lineage on my sm-t560
2020-01-03T12:39:38 < qyx> (galaxy tab e 10)
2020-01-03T12:39:49 < qyx> only 4.4 was available oficially, now I have 7
2020-01-03T12:45:09 < Cracki> jadew, lineage?
2020-01-03T12:45:19 < Cracki> and it's been mentioned
2020-01-03T12:47:38 < Cracki> they have three lenovo devices in their support https://download.lineageos.org/YTX703L
2020-01-03T12:48:35 < AndrevS> I've an SM-T230 laying around. But I haven't found an update for that thing yet. 
2020-01-03T12:52:01 < Cracki> I'm disgusted by the "shortevity" of mobile phones. my desktop hw is mostly 2012 and it's running fine, even gets driver updates for stuff like GPU
2020-01-03T12:52:32 < Cracki> but even lineage os dropped nexus 4 (~2013) in 2018
2020-01-03T12:53:15 < Cracki> it's like there is no reason to spend more than 100 bucks on that
2020-01-03T12:53:47 < AndrevS> Yeah... and by that... a Feature Phone from 2008 is still more usefull then a 2011 smart phone
2020-01-03T12:55:10 < Cracki> nexus 4 was a feature phone. i think I paid 200 or 300 bucks for it. I like "store brand", it means peace of mind.
2020-01-03T12:56:02 < Cracki> I wish google, or any search engine, would understand when I curse at it I want results that also curse
2020-01-03T12:56:08 < Cracki> such as "smartphones that don't fucking suck"
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2020-01-03T12:57:41 < Jak_o_Shadows> What the heck am I missing in enabling one of the STM32F1's advanced timer?
2020-01-03T12:57:48 < AndrevS> I've been using an old Nokia 6300 as my main phone for the past years. 
2020-01-03T12:58:04 < Cracki> there ought to be a way to drop a nuke on anyone who makes a "review site" that merely lists mfg specs. I looked for a camcorder recently. ONE site actually took test pictures under standardized conditions
2020-01-03T12:58:34 < Jak_o_Shadows> (TIM1). Enable the TIM1_CC_IRQ, reset the timer, set the period, set clock source, edge type, and direction. Set OC mode to PWM out, set OC value, enable interrupt for the channel OC.
2020-01-03T12:58:34 < Cracki> Jak_o_Shadows, "advanced" meaning it has a bunch of channels and fancier control such as dead time and complementary outputs
2020-01-03T12:58:40 < Jak_o_Shadows> yeah
2020-01-03T12:59:01 < Cracki> still have a nokia 3310
2020-01-03T12:59:08 < Cracki> dumb as a brick, but as sturdy
2020-01-03T12:59:14 < Jak_o_Shadows> We don't have a 2G network anymore, so no more nokia 2610
2020-01-03T12:59:27 < Cracki> I do like to read email and use mapping/timetables on the move
2020-01-03T13:00:09 < Cracki> I wish there were a tolerable alternative to android, ios, and "windows phone"
2020-01-03T13:00:14 < Jak_o_Shadows> But if I put a breakpoint in tim1_isr, I never hit it https://bpaste.net/B3UQ
2020-01-03T13:00:29 < Jak_o_Shadows> Cracki, I just wish there were an iMessage for android
2020-01-03T13:00:29 < Cracki> android is like "linux on the desktop". ios is just WRONG, like driving on the wrong side of the road. and windows has always been a joke.
2020-01-03T13:00:30 < Jak_o_Shadows> and PC
2020-01-03T13:00:44 < Cracki> Jak_o_Shadows, so isr isn't run?
2020-01-03T13:01:00 < Cracki> are you sure your setting of breakpoints must work?
2020-01-03T13:01:09 < Cracki> toggle a pin inside the isr, more reliable :>
2020-01-03T13:01:33 < Cracki> do interrupts cause handlers to run at all in your setup?
2020-01-03T13:02:13 < Cracki> does it produce pwm output at least?
2020-01-03T13:02:17 < Cracki> or is it just dead
2020-01-03T13:02:52 < Jak_o_Shadows> toggling the pin inside doesn't do it
2020-01-03T13:02:59 < Jak_o_Shadows> normally i've had pretty good success.
2020-01-03T13:03:11 < Jak_o_Shadows> I think i'm not fully enabling it
2020-01-03T13:03:19 < Cracki> "least awful ..." google autocomplete is a riot
2020-01-03T13:04:06 < Cracki> didn't check; do you set rcc to give it clock?
2020-01-03T13:04:36 < Cracki> grab some example for this timer that is supposed to work, compare?
2020-01-03T13:05:43 < Jak_o_Shadows> TIM1 has clock, GPIOA has clock
2020-01-03T13:06:36 < Jak_o_Shadows> ah bugger me
2020-01-03T13:07:27 < Jak_o_Shadows> The ISR doesn't have the same name
2020-01-03T13:07:29 < Cracki> ah, nokia is now HMD. 13 of 15 HMD executives were with nokia
2020-01-03T13:07:37 < Cracki> same name?
2020-01-03T13:08:16 < Jak_o_Shadows> The ISR function for the advanced timer capture compare interrupt of course isn't the same as the normal timers
2020-01-03T13:08:22 < Jak_o_Shadows> tim2_isr versus tim1_cc_isr
2020-01-03T13:08:35 < Cracki> ah
2020-01-03T13:08:45 < Cracki> yes, stuff gets squashed
2020-01-03T13:09:00 < Cracki> interrupt lines do multiple things
2020-01-03T13:09:13 < Cracki> apparently there's a limit to the number of those things :>
2020-01-03T13:10:43 < Cracki> arbitrary shit like that is why embedded programmers aren't paid salaries, they're paid for Pain And Suffering
2020-01-03T13:12:07 < karlp> in this case, you could read first, isntead of ranting
2020-01-03T13:12:13 < karlp> it's the reverse, tim1 has more isrs.
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2020-01-03T13:44:08 < qyx> I should replace the cover of my feature phone
2020-01-03T13:44:12 < qyx> it is in service since ~2008
2020-01-03T13:44:50 < PaulFertser> Cracki: have you considered some small portable computers with a physical keyboard like gpdwin?
2020-01-03T13:45:07 < Cracki> gah
2020-01-03T13:45:48 < Cracki> I've had a phone with keyboard once. never again. ergonomical nonsense. pressing those buttons requires more force and articulation than any onscreen kb
2020-01-03T13:46:36 < PaulFertser> Strange, people usually share good memories of using e.g. n900.
2020-01-03T13:46:56 < PaulFertser> And gpd win is larger than your typical phone.
2020-01-03T13:47:12 < Cracki> so it's closer to a laptop and fits in no pocket
2020-01-03T13:47:46 < Cracki> I can't imagine having a personal use for that form factor
2020-01-03T13:49:13 < Cracki> most nav on a mobile phone is menus. i rarely even need to enter numbers. the calculator app accounts for most of that.
2020-01-03T13:51:46 < PaulFertser> Dimensions155 mm x 97 mm x 22 mm
2020-01-03T13:52:43 < Cracki> I can imagine some people being built to have clothes with pockets that can fit that
2020-01-03T13:53:08 < Cracki> animals making human-like sounds http://www.bbc.com/earth/story/20150216-can-any-animals-talk-like-humans
2020-01-03T13:53:51 < PaulFertser> With slim enough jeans carrying any phone in pockets becomes impractical.
2020-01-03T13:54:21 < Cracki> so that's why apple invented the wrist watch! all those hipsters wearing skinny jeans!
2020-01-03T13:55:15 < Cracki> que the eye phone
2020-01-03T14:03:07 < PaulFertser> Cracki: proper pockets: https://englishrussia.com/wp-content/uploads/2009/11/post-3-12580311899682.jpg
2020-01-03T14:03:54 < Cracki> verily
2020-01-03T14:04:10 < PaulFertser> More info about the contents: https://englishrussia.com/2009/11/12/fishing-all-the-secrets-out/#more-6069
2020-01-03T14:04:21 < PaulFertser> Now that's real EDC
2020-01-03T14:04:46 < Cracki> lol those pics
2020-01-03T14:06:38 < Cracki> space invader bird https://youtu.be/tP6ZatJ3wrk?t=78
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2020-01-03T14:15:40 < BrainDamage> why does he pack a razor when he clearly doesn't use it
2020-01-03T14:16:13 < Steffanx> Are you sure?
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2020-01-03T14:16:23 < karlp> did jack the ripper have a beard?
2020-01-03T14:17:01 < BrainDamage> the cassette tape is also weird
2020-01-03T14:17:04 < BrainDamage> no idea what's for
2020-01-03T14:17:44 < Cracki> probably contains compromat
2020-01-03T14:18:01 < BrainDamage> so many duplicate items, tons of pens and magnifying lenses
2020-01-03T14:22:10 < PaulFertser> BrainDamage: in 2009 he had a tape voice recorder because giving somebody a tape was sometimes easier than transfering files.
2020-01-03T14:25:42 < PaulFertser> BrainDamage: on https://englishrussia.com/wp-content/uploads/2009/11/post-3-12580321916591.jpg you see a sticky roll to clean from cat hair and such, it's not a razor.
2020-01-03T14:25:46 < Steffanx> Russia -_-
2020-01-03T14:26:00 < BrainDamage> oh
2020-01-03T14:26:50 < PaulFertser> Steffanx: he's from Ukraine btw
2020-01-03T14:27:27 < PaulFertser> Originally, now he lives in russia. And votes for putin.
2020-01-03T14:28:24 < Steffanx> Doesnt everyone vote for putin. Even when they dont?
2020-01-03T14:29:20 < BrainDamage> I had the same question in mind
2020-01-03T14:31:35 < Cracki> at least they make it obvious that you have no choice. it's worse when you are given a "choice" that isn't.
2020-01-03T14:31:48 < Cracki> (I'm not sure it's that bad in russia anyway)
2020-01-03T14:31:58 < PaulFertser> Steffanx: no, why?
2020-01-03T14:32:53 < Steffanx> PaulFertser: It was a joke.. although putin or one of his puppets always wins.
2020-01-03T14:33:24 < PaulFertser> Steffanx: yes, since the majority of the citizens are ok with that.
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2020-01-03T15:23:49 < Steffanx> hm
2020-01-03T15:42:08 < qyx> wheres kaki when one needs him
2020-01-03T15:42:22 < qyx> what is the closest distance between two SMAs
2020-01-03T15:44:22 < zyp> depends how easy you want it to be to screw
2020-01-03T15:48:16 < Cracki> >The SMA connector uses a 1/4-inch diameter, 36-thread-per-inch threaded barrel. The male connector has a hexagonal nut which measures 5/16 inch, i.e. 0.3125 inch or nominally 8 mm across opposite flats. Accordingly a wrench for a #6 SAE hex nut can be used.
2020-01-03T15:48:22 < Steffanx> haha smakimir isnt here :O
2020-01-03T15:48:44 < Cracki> now you need to guess how wide a hex nut can be
2020-01-03T15:48:56 < Cracki> *wrench for
2020-01-03T15:50:20 < zyp> 8mm hex is 11.3mm at the widest if I'm not fucking up my math
2020-01-03T15:50:39 < zyp> so 12mm should be fine if you only need to reach the top and bottom and not have them crash into each other
2020-01-03T15:52:48 < Cracki> one side is (8mm/2) / tan(60/180*pi) * 2 = 4.6 mm so corner to corner it's about 9.2 mm?
2020-01-03T15:52:58 < Cracki> 11.3 sounds like good margin :P
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2020-01-03T15:53:57 < qyx> http://en.data-alliance.net/wp-content/uploads/2017/11/Hex-nut-SMA-RP-SMA.jpg
2020-01-03T15:54:08 < qyx> they say <10mm
2020-01-03T15:54:13 < qyx> so meh
2020-01-03T15:54:15 < Cracki> sounds good
2020-01-03T15:54:23 < qyx> I could fit 5 of those in 51mm
2020-01-03T15:54:41 < Cracki> geometry says 9.23 mm if we're ignoring any tolerances
2020-01-03T15:57:36 < Cracki> if you fit them that close, it will be difficult to grab the faces of the hex nut
2020-01-03T15:58:00 < zyp> ah, my bad, it's 2sqrt(3) not 2sqrt(2)
2020-01-03T15:58:14 < Cracki> an M5 nut is about 8mm face to face
2020-01-03T15:58:49 < Cracki> if you need something for scale
2020-01-03T15:59:47 < Cracki> random m5 "nut" for my wrench is almost 12mm diameter
2020-01-03T15:59:57 < Cracki> nvm I'm dumb
2020-01-03T16:01:06 < Cracki> some 8mm wrench head here is almost 20 mm wide :D
2020-01-03T16:03:54 < Cracki> everyone uses their fingers, right? 10 mm sounds reasonable
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2020-01-03T16:06:56 < Cracki> https://ez.analog.com/rf/f/q-a/75613/conventional-spacing-between-sma-jacks
2020-01-03T16:07:09 < Cracki> some other article even says 19 mm which sounds generous
2020-01-03T16:13:49 < aandrew> what the shit is this firmata thing
2020-01-03T16:14:07 < aandrew> someone wrote a library based on MIDI for arduino - pc/phone/tablet comms?
2020-01-03T16:14:24 < aandrew> I am starting to really, really get dongs 
2020-01-03T16:15:28 < karlp> yeah, it's pretty clunky.
2020-01-03T16:16:12 < karlp> run this firmware, get a really trimmed down but maybe "just enough" to just remote control the avr enough that you don't _realllly_ need to write any code for the avr itself
2020-01-03T16:16:59 < aandrew> I mean I guess it's a step up from everyone just sending arbitarary binary (or even better ASCII) streams and parsing shit on both sides
2020-01-03T16:17:21 < aandrew> but what's wrong with using something already out there and battle tested instead of inventing yet another shitty protocol
2020-01-03T16:17:36 < karlp> ahh, but at this stage firmata probably _does_ count as "battle tested" :)
2020-01-03T16:17:55 < aandrew> heh
2020-01-03T16:17:58 < karlp> and what good ones were around for what they were trying to do?
2020-01-03T16:18:14 < aandrew> I have this library downlaoded and I have no idea why I downloaded it, just going though my downloads dir and saw it and trying to figure out wtf it is
2020-01-03T16:18:22 < aandrew> karlp: something like modbus immediately comes to mind
2020-01-03T16:18:29 < karlp> no standardization there
2020-01-03T16:18:51 < aandrew> karlp: in the sense of "what are the digital bits" and "here is the analog value" yes there is
2020-01-03T16:19:16 < karlp> not really. there's nothing that defines what the addresses would be,
2020-01-03T16:19:19 < aandrew> no standardization on what the bits represent, but that's also firmata from what I see
2020-01-03T16:19:33 < aandrew> 0xd0 is "here's a 16 bit value" for example
2020-01-03T16:19:37 < aandrew> (firmatat)
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2020-01-03T16:20:01 < karlp> been a while since I looked at it, I thought it was fairly well defined, just a lot of overhead
2020-01-03T16:20:35 < zyp> huh, that sounds oddly similar to what one of my old coworkers were playing around with a bunch of years ago
2020-01-03T16:20:47 < aandrew> I'm looking at the protocol spec now and yes it looks like they started with arbitarary and have started to standardize
2020-01-03T16:20:52 < aandrew> they ahve messages for servos for example
2020-01-03T16:21:13 < zyp> he were using USB MIDI as a generic transport because there were APIs for MIDI access on ipad and stuff, IIRC
2020-01-03T16:21:14 < aandrew> wtf it looks like these messages are for configuring I/O
2020-01-03T16:21:18 < aandrew> not for communicating
2020-01-03T16:21:34 < karlp> it's all of it, it's like treating the avr core as a puppet
2020-01-03T16:21:38 < aandrew> it's funny seeing SYSEX in this
2020-01-03T16:21:44 < aandrew> karlp: ahh okay
2020-01-03T16:21:54 < karlp> but not via gdb or anything....
2020-01-03T16:22:15 < karlp> you can run your "application" via firmata if it's not too heavy.
2020-01-03T16:22:33 < aandrew> so it's basically a way to give a PC/tablet/phone a way to talk to I2C/servo/uart/etc. by way of fimrata-compatible "modules" -- I get it now
2020-01-03T16:22:40 < karlp> you just leave firmata on your board and then you can push buttons in your processing java shit and make lights blink
2020-01-03T16:22:49 < zyp> ah
2020-01-03T16:23:22 < aandrew> yeah I get it now
2020-01-03T16:23:29 < aandrew> so it's actually not bad for useful
2020-01-03T16:23:44 < aandrew> dongs-rage-o-meter [  \       ]
2020-01-03T16:23:49  * karlp grins
2020-01-03T16:24:10 < aandrew> still, I wonder what the fuck I downloaded this for
2020-01-03T16:24:11 < karlp> it's like arduino itself in a way.  not really a great implementation perhaps, but well tested, well used, well supported...
2020-01-03T16:24:25 < aandrew> right and good for quick and dirty "dont' think too hard" stuff
2020-01-03T16:25:51 < aandrew> I also downloaded the entire torrap design file set too for some reason
2020-01-03T16:26:06 < aandrew> I swear I must get drunk and randomly download shit, like how people buy random shit on amazon
2020-01-03T16:27:05 < karlp> at least they're small
2020-01-03T16:27:22 < aandrew> I also have a pdf of Brian Douglas' fundamentals of control theory, I liked his videos, I should youtube-dl all of them
2020-01-03T16:27:24 < karlp> I've got hundreds of gigs of vm snapshots and outdated isos and archaich toolchains
2020-01-03T16:28:00 < aandrew> I did the same for 99% of W2AEW's RF design videos
2020-01-03T16:28:11 < aandrew> yeah I have lots of VM snapshots for the exact same reason
2020-01-03T16:28:19 < aandrew> I fucking love VMs for that
2020-01-03T16:29:01 < aandrew> now I gotta figure out why my well flow sensor broke
2020-01-03T16:29:22 < aandrew> I have an arduino watching it (and pressure at 5 different points along the treatment chain) and noticed the flow is stuck at zero
2020-01-03T16:29:56 < aandrew> meter confirms the flow meter output is 0V, so either the hall effect failed or the spinner thing is siezed
2020-01-03T16:30:04 < aandrew> either way it involves me getting wet to open it up
2020-01-03T16:30:43 < aandrew> the water flow is perfectly fine so I'm not worried abot it, but I'd like to measure flow again
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2020-01-03T16:36:03  * karlp has never had good luck with water meter shit
2020-01-03T16:36:22 < karlp> we tried some china ultrasonic stuff but it's super sensitive to mounting positions
2020-01-03T16:36:31 < karlp> water fluxes and cavitates and goes back and forth
2020-01-03T16:36:37 < karlp> nothing like good ol electrons
2020-01-03T16:37:11 < aandrew> this one is literally a magnet connected to an impeller in the water stream
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2020-01-03T16:37:26 < aandrew> super cheap and worked for 4 years
2020-01-03T16:37:41 < aandrew> and failed "safe" (didn't block water)
2020-01-03T16:38:05 < karlp> yeah, those are common, but require putting them int he water...
2020-01-03T16:38:13 < karlp> not always a super happy operation.
2020-01-03T16:39:57 < karlp> hrm, had a "migrate" option on the vm when it ws running, not there when it's shutdown?!
2020-01-03T16:44:53 < srk> finally got orbtop working \o/
2020-01-03T16:44:53 < karlp> damnit. 100meg ethernet actually getting in the way.  moving this vm to a new machine is going to be a little while
2020-01-03T16:44:53 < srk> http://ix.io/26hG
2020-01-03T16:45:21 < karlp> srk: ada doing everthing in doubles?
2020-01-03T16:45:28 < karlp> what sort of problems were you having?
2020-01-03T16:45:33 < karlp> also, yay, more people profiling!
2020-01-03T16:45:43 < srk> none, just when I've tried it last time I didn't get any output
2020-01-03T16:46:56 < srk> it's some experimental app changing brightness of max7219 according to saw wave afaik
2020-01-03T16:47:02 < veverak> shit orbuculum looks good
2020-01-03T16:48:24 < srk> heh, actually triangle https://github.com/distrap/ivory-tower-helloworld/blob/data-stm32/src/Hello/Tests/Bluepill.hs#L44
2020-01-03T16:49:07 < aandrew> srk: that's some right fine division yer doin' there, son.
2020-01-03T16:49:13 < karlp> hangon, wereðt you the ada fan?
2020-01-03T16:49:16 < srk> it works with CP2102 at 921600
2020-01-03T16:49:25 < karlp> if you're the ivoryhaskell duder, who's the ada nut?
2020-01-03T16:49:33 < srk> not sure :D
2020-01-03T16:50:30 < karlp> specing I think then...
2020-01-03T16:51:31 < srk> aandrew: heh, not even sure where it's happening :D
2020-01-03T16:53:20 < srk> anyway, this changes everything :D
2020-01-03T16:55:34 < srk> (looks like the elf image doesn't match what's running on mcu)
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2020-01-03T17:15:59 < srk> is there a way to dump PC via orbcat?
2020-01-03T17:16:50 < karlp> no, orbcat just dumps itm channels.
2020-01-03T17:17:19 < srk> ah
2020-01-03T17:17:37 < srk> then by reading swo/hwevent?
2020-01-03T17:17:43 < karlp> you can however use "profile" from openocd which will do a very good job of it too, generates a gprof compatible file
2020-01-03T17:18:43 < karlp> I've not seen anything in the orb family that was directly useful for saving pc sampling streams, at least not that I remember,
2020-01-03T17:18:50 < srk> interesting
2020-01-03T17:18:56 < srk> (profile cmd)
2020-01-03T17:19:07 < karlp> it's not the same, but it's also good.
2020-01-03T17:19:16 < karlp> orbtop is using the pc sampling,
2020-01-03T17:19:32 < karlp> profile is reading the dwt_pc register repeatedly, but it does it while running.
2020-01-03T17:19:52 < karlp> if you wnt to save the pc sampling directly, you can prbably use swodec 
2020-01-03T17:20:01 < karlp> there might be stuff in orbdump maybe.
2020-01-03T17:20:07 < karlp> how are you getting the swo stream?
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2020-01-03T17:20:44 < srk> cp2102 
2020-01-03T17:20:53 < karlp> to what?
2020-01-03T17:21:00 < karlp> to a file? 
2020-01-03T17:21:03 < srk> to orbuculum
2020-01-03T17:21:06 < srk> ah, orbdump, missed that
2020-01-03T17:21:17 < karlp> so you don't hve the raw dump? only orbuculum does?
2020-01-03T17:21:27 < srk> think so
2020-01-03T17:21:57 < karlp> I normally have openocd take swo from stlink to a file, and then just let orbuculum have that, lets me run other tools on the same dump file if I like.
2020-01-03T17:22:18 < srk> yeah, orbdump seems to dump it raw
2020-01-03T17:22:44 < karlp> they're doing some work to make more of it library based, so you don't hve to hack on C if you want some minor changes, which is nice :)
2020-01-03T17:22:46 < srk> I can probably modify orbtop to be able to dump PC, looks easy
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2020-01-03T17:27:34 < karlp> it's not a very pleasant code style, to my mind, but at least it's consistent :)
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2020-01-03T17:32:28 < srk> indeed
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2020-01-03T18:55:34 < Cracki> so... new meter has an IR pulse output, 10k/kWh. that's incredibly convenient
2020-01-03T19:00:05 < emeb> utility power meter?
2020-01-03T19:00:10 < Cracki> yes
2020-01-03T19:00:16 < emeb> wow
2020-01-03T19:00:34 < emeb> so just hang an IR rx nearby and measure frequency to get instantaneous power?
2020-01-03T19:00:51 < Cracki> that's the idea
2020-01-03T19:01:05 < Cracki> I'm reading up on esp+arduino and its sleep modes
2020-01-03T19:01:28 < Cracki> it's gonna have to run off battery because I will not string 10 meters of wire from my room out into the hallway
2020-01-03T19:02:23 < emeb> wake up every minute, measure, send packet, sleep.
2020-01-03T19:02:45 < Cracki> stuff says esp can deepsleep, which keeps only RTC on. I'll just collect timestamp for some thousands of pulses, then wifi on and upload that
2020-01-03T19:03:01 < emeb> yup
2020-01-03T19:03:26 < Cracki> I've had the fun of dealing with a power meter with S0 (open drain) before. spared me the IR circuit
2020-01-03T19:03:36 < emeb> have a little server w/ UDP port open to gather info
2020-01-03T19:04:10 < Cracki> I'll need to give it its own wifi network because fuck me if anyone grabs that and reads my wifi password from flash
2020-01-03T19:04:41 < emeb> my router has a guest network option
2020-01-03T19:04:52 < Cracki> that's the plan
2020-01-03T19:05:17 < Cracki> I'm just wondering if the router or my repeater are closer to the meter... both have half a meter of brick to the meter
2020-01-03T19:06:00 < Cracki> and since the meter is openly visible in the stairway, I'm wondering who'll be the first to nose around and ask questions
2020-01-03T19:06:47 < emeb> just put your gizmo in a nondescript gray plastic box stuck to the wall. No one will notice.
2020-01-03T19:07:36 < Cracki> I'll paint it neon red and blue like a poisonous frog
2020-01-03T19:08:01 < emeb> heh. then ppl will try to lick it.
2020-01-03T19:08:02 < Cracki> and fake some governmental looking sigils maybe
2020-01-03T19:08:02 < karlp> is it actually ir?  normally there's a standard ir bi-dir comms inside a circluar steel ring, and then a plain visible optical flasher.
2020-01-03T19:09:22 < emeb> my utility meter is one of those IMS mesh network things.
2020-01-03T19:09:29 < karlp> "standard" ir comms is a little nasty, because there's lots of versions in the standards, and you might not have the password for it, but...
2020-01-03T19:09:49 < emeb> If I really cared I could probably build an RX for it and catch it's hourly reports.
2020-01-03T19:10:01 < Cracki> tech promised me it's dumb, no connectivity of any kind. I'll have to check that... the front plate is chatty, even says to "read the manual"
2020-01-03T19:10:06 < emeb> but then I can just go to the utility website and read what they've got on my.
2020-01-03T19:10:11 < Cracki> heh
2020-01-03T19:10:22 < karlp> shit like this has an bi-dir comms port https://www.landisgyr.eu/product/landisgyr-e450/ and then an _optical_ blinking
2020-01-03T19:10:38 < karlp> the optical blinking is actually so you can "believe" it better
2020-01-03T19:10:48 < karlp> it's to make people feel more like they can see the spinning wheel
2020-01-03T19:10:57 < karlp> apparentlyt just the display is untrust worthy
2020-01-03T19:11:29 < karlp> and, for more points, that's a _requirement_ for MID compliance, to have the blinking light.
2020-01-03T19:12:07 < emeb> my meter has an LCD display, so no light - just a blinky black square.
2020-01-03T19:12:22 < karlp> yeah, that's the "blinking light"
2020-01-03T19:12:27 < karlp> that's allo9wed, but you have to have it.
2020-01-03T19:12:32 < Cracki> huh, this random page says even light sleep will consume about 2 mA. on a pair of 18650 that should last a month
2020-01-03T19:12:59 < Cracki> when he installed the thing, it showed instantaneous watts briefly, now it only shows two readings of kwh
2020-01-03T19:13:19 < Cracki> one's zero (probably previous period or sth) and one is about a day's worth, with no decimal places
2020-01-03T19:13:20 < karlp> he woudl have had a dongle up on the ir port I presume?
2020-01-03T19:21:04 < jadew> stupid wireless device is interfering with my car's lock
2020-01-03T19:21:38 < jadew> someone got some sort of device which streams continuously on the same frequency as my key fob
2020-01-03T19:21:43 < Cracki> lol
2020-01-03T19:22:05 < Cracki> triangulate them, then throw a microwave
2020-01-03T19:22:28 < jadew> I was going to triangulate them and then knock on his door
2020-01-03T19:22:58 < jadew> and hope he can switch the channel of that thing, otherwise I'll start broadcasting white noise on the same frequency too
2020-01-03T19:23:50 < srk> what
2020-01-03T19:23:51 < Cracki> that's ISM band... is your key fob's battery running low, not robust to interference, or they're just that "loud"?
2020-01-03T19:23:54 < srk> what's the fob freq?
2020-01-03T19:24:09 < jadew> srk, 433.9 MHz
2020-01-03T19:25:07 < jadew> Cracki, it's maybe 10 to 20 dB down from the key fob when next to the car, but I guess the pattern just messes up the receiver
2020-01-03T19:25:13 < jadew> it's literally transmitting constantly
2020-01-03T19:25:19 < jadew> seems to be OOK
2020-01-03T19:25:24 < srk> wanted to try sniffing these with SDR :)
2020-01-03T19:25:28 < Cracki> white noise now!
2020-01-03T19:25:56 < Cracki> is there any decipherable data in the signal?
2020-01-03T19:25:56 < jadew> I want to find it
2020-01-03T19:26:13 < jadew> I didn't try to decipher it, but it could be fun
2020-01-03T19:26:22 < jadew> I do wonder tho... what could it be?
2020-01-03T19:26:31 < jadew> constant data stream - video camera?
2020-01-03T19:26:34 < jadew> audio?
2020-01-03T19:27:11 < Cracki> found the manual to my meter :3 it's sufficiently detailed about most things, except that stupid "button" that seems to be more like a turning knob
2020-01-03T19:27:22 < Cracki> shower cam!
2020-01-03T19:27:50 < jadew> if it's a cam, it's probably something boring
2020-01-03T19:27:54 < jadew> like... a plant
2020-01-03T19:28:02 < PaulFertser> jadew: you can probably find the source with a directed antenna and even the cheapest SDR? Or is it harder than hat and requires portable equipment that you do not have?
2020-01-03T19:28:22 < jadew> PaulFertser, already have a SDR which works on my phone
2020-01-03T19:28:29 < jadew> I just need to build a directional antenna now
2020-01-03T19:28:32 < PaulFertser> jadew: USB HID?
2020-01-03T19:28:54 < jadew> my kid loves the idea, so it's going to be great to hunt for the troublesome device
2020-01-03T19:28:59 < PaulFertser> jadew: how do you plan to build it? Cantenna is probably the simplest mechanics-wise?
2020-01-03T19:29:34 < jadew> I don't know as what type of device it's registered, but it worked out of the box
2020-01-03T19:29:37 < emeb> cantenna for 434MHz would be... large.
2020-01-03T19:30:07 < Cracki> random google shows me spring like coils for 433 mhz
2020-01-03T19:30:08 < emeb> maybe a 2-3 element yagi-uda.
2020-01-03T19:30:08 < jadew> right, I'm thinking yagi
2020-01-03T19:30:13 < Cracki> so... get a pencil and some copper wire?
2020-01-03T19:30:19 < Cracki> or that :P
2020-01-03T19:30:42 < emeb> can make a yagi out of stiff wire and some wood sticks.
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2020-01-03T19:31:01 < emeb> just cut to length, tape to stick. done.
2020-01-03T19:31:05 < PaulFertser> emeb: it doesn't need to be high-gain though, so the question would be if your regular pringles can is directional enough on 433 MHz I guess?
2020-01-03T19:31:17 < Cracki> right, you need directionality. iot coil things no use
2020-01-03T19:31:34 < jadew> PaulFertser, that's a good point too
2020-01-03T19:31:47 < jadew> maybe I should make a cantenna and see how it goes
2020-01-03T19:31:51 < Cracki> "433 mhz directional" shows me fly-swatter-sized things
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2020-01-03T19:32:19 < PaulFertser> 2-3 element might be too wide, and with larger amount of directors you'll risk damaging it while handling. If it's just a pencil-copper wire thing.
2020-01-03T19:32:23 < Cracki> yagi is probably a good idea, educationally
2020-01-03T19:34:09 < emeb> 433MHz wavelength is about 0.7 meters. Pringles can @ 8cm dia (roughly lambda/10) would attenuate that way too much)
2020-01-03T19:34:35 < jadew> maybe I can use a paint can :P
2020-01-03T19:34:37 < Cracki> how about a cooking pot 
2020-01-03T19:34:54 < emeb> oil drum :)
2020-01-03T19:35:01 < jadew> haha
2020-01-03T19:35:35 < Cracki> c / 433MHz / 4 is 173 mm? paint can sounds fitting
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2020-01-03T19:35:58 < Cracki> is lambda/2 any good? 346 mm could be a trash can
2020-01-03T19:36:33 < emeb> 3e8 / 433e6 = 0.69 
2020-01-03T19:36:36 < jadew> I'm not gonna walk around the neighbourhood pointing a trashcan at buildings
2020-01-03T19:36:54 < Cracki> why tho, the kid might have fun
2020-01-03T19:37:40 < jadew> https://www.changpuak.ch/electronics/cantenna.php
2020-01-03T19:38:50 < jadew> I think that calculator is wrong, it says I need a 90mm dia can, that's 173mm long
2020-01-03T19:38:55 < PaulFertser> Good thing you have the equipment to properly fine-tune it.
2020-01-03T19:38:56 < jadew> that's easy to find
2020-01-03T19:39:27 < jadew> PaulFertser, yeah, I can at least know how directive it is
2020-01-03T19:39:32 < emeb> 90mm is a default value
2020-01-03T19:39:38 < jadew> or where exactly it's pointing
2020-01-03T19:39:41 < jadew> emeb, ah
2020-01-03T19:39:51 < emeb> notice the cutoff freq it mentions is several GHz
2020-01-03T19:40:02 < jadew> yeah, I assumed that's just for those modes
2020-01-03T19:41:20 < PaulFertser> https://www.instructables.com/id/433-MHz-tape-measure-antenna-suits-UHF-transmitte/
2020-01-03T19:41:45 < emeb> that's what I'm talking about.
2020-01-03T19:41:53 < PaulFertser> Not directional enough probably.
2020-01-03T19:42:07 < emeb> yagis are pretty directional
2020-01-03T19:42:15 < emeb> often used for wildlife tracking
2020-01-03T19:42:19 < emeb> and ham foxhunts
2020-01-03T19:42:21 < jadew> it's worth a try I guess
2020-01-03T19:43:22 < PaulFertser> emeb: it's just one director though, very lame compared to, say, 10 :)
2020-01-03T19:44:07 < emeb> PaulFertser: heh. true, you can go wild with those things.
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2020-01-03T19:45:21 < emeb> I see that they have info in that article for a 4 element too
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2020-01-03T19:45:34 < Laurenceb> heh I worked somewhere where they used cheap hardware store tape measures as megabux antennas
2020-01-03T19:46:15 < jadew> is that really worth trying or should I just cut some aluminium pipe?
2020-01-03T19:47:06 < PaulFertser> jadew: tape measure vs alu tubes?
2020-01-03T19:47:11 < jadew> yeah
2020-01-03T19:47:22 < emeb> or just use some solid-core copper wire. 
2020-01-03T19:47:26 < PaulFertser> jadew: doesn't matter, whatever is better mechanically for your purpose.
2020-01-03T19:47:41 < jadew> yeah, I guess you can go for solid wire on this one, it's not likely to bend too much
2020-01-03T19:47:41 < emeb> important thing is the lengths & spacing
2020-01-03T19:47:44 < PaulFertser> Easirer to secure etc.
2020-01-03T19:47:58 < PaulFertser> jadew: by fine-tuning I meant getting at least SWR right.
2020-01-03T19:48:06 < emeb> the tape measure aspect is mainly for durability / transportability.
2020-01-03T19:48:18 < Laurenceb> paint stripped them and put them in enclosures with deployment motors
2020-01-03T19:48:18 < Laurenceb> jadew: what gain do you want?
2020-01-03T19:48:19 < Laurenceb> remember that tape is spring steel
2020-01-03T19:48:19 < Laurenceb> so poor electrical characteristics
2020-01-03T19:49:13 < jadew> PaulFertser, yeah, I would have done that anyway
2020-01-03T19:49:16 < PaulFertser> emeb: the article is just inspiration for how to secure it all together, there're plenty of "online calculators" for "any" (practical) number of elements.
2020-01-03T19:49:21 < jadew> Laurenceb, gain wasn't important here, directivity was
2020-01-03T19:49:23 < jadew> but here's the thing
2020-01-03T19:49:26 < jadew> the signal stopped
2020-01-03T19:49:30 < PaulFertser> jadew: of course, I meant it's very cool you can easily do that.
2020-01-03T19:49:31 < jadew> it was there for 2 days straight
2020-01-03T19:49:38 < jadew> and while we were having this convo, it stopped
2020-01-03T19:49:42 < emeb> haha
2020-01-03T19:49:46 < emeb> they heard you
2020-01-03T19:50:08 < jadew> I actually told a neighbour about my issue when I came home about 40 minutes ago
2020-01-03T19:50:20 < emeb> hmmm... 
2020-01-03T19:50:59 < emeb> did he start looking guilty and run inside?
2020-01-03T19:51:37 < jadew> heh, he did run inside, but on his defence his wife was calling him in
2020-01-03T19:52:03 < Laurenceb> cant you get one of the GNU-Radio compatible SDRs with MIMO and make a phase array?
2020-01-03T19:52:11 < Laurenceb> *phased
2020-01-03T19:52:36 < emeb> there's even an RTL-based system w/ multi chls and common clock.
2020-01-03T19:53:17 < jadew> sounds like too much of a project for just figuring out who's keeping me from locking my car
2020-01-03T19:53:36 < emeb> complex solutions for simple problems.
2020-01-03T19:53:44 < emeb> it's the ##stm32 way
2020-01-03T19:54:35 < PaulFertser> Laurenceb: yeah, I thought about asking the same :)
2020-01-03T19:55:33 < Laurenceb> emeb: not complex when gnu-radio has a drag and drop gui
2020-01-03T19:55:51 < emeb> yep
2020-01-03T19:56:06 < Laurenceb> just expensive as you need at least 3 channels
2020-01-03T19:56:15 < emeb> yes, those MIMO hardwares are $$$
2020-01-03T19:56:21 < Laurenceb> or you can haxor it and use single channel with rf switches
2020-01-03T19:56:31 < Laurenceb> as you are just looking at CW
2020-01-03T19:56:46 < Laurenceb> as long as the transmitter phase wobble isnt horrific
2020-01-03T19:57:28 < Laurenceb> something like no signal, antenna 1, antenna 2, antenna 3
2020-01-03T19:57:43 < Laurenceb> in sequence with maybe 1ms per antenna
2020-01-03T19:57:54 < Laurenceb> then each antenna is a monopole
2020-01-03T19:58:16 < Laurenceb> you could almost do it with a 555 timer lol 
2020-01-03T19:58:35 < BrainDamage> I've seen it done with 555 timers ...
2020-01-03T19:58:38 < BrainDamage> and a counter
2020-01-03T19:58:59 < Laurenceb> the tracking would be a little fiddly
2020-01-03T19:59:24 < Laurenceb> maybe it could use fft rather than a pll
2020-01-03T19:59:50 < Laurenceb> that way it would be more robust against the nastyness from switching antennas and sudden phase shifts
2020-01-03T20:00:02 < PaulFertser> I wonder if LPDA would have any advantages for the purpose.
2020-01-03T20:00:48 < PaulFertser> I guess no, you need only a single frequency.
2020-01-03T20:00:53 < Laurenceb> or some sort of DFT with only a handful of bins, probably good enough with some smart filtering to take out phase drift between tx and rx over the course of an antenna rotation
2020-01-03T20:01:49 < emeb> and lots & lots of calibration
2020-01-03T20:01:57 < Laurenceb> not really
2020-01-03T20:02:26 < Laurenceb> just need to track phase drift between one antenna rotation and the next then interpolate
2020-01-03T20:02:52 < Laurenceb> then take off the phase drift and find relative phase of antennas 2 and 3 versus 1
2020-01-03T20:03:12 < emeb> well, you've got to at least de-embed the differential responses of the various input paths.
2020-01-03T20:03:30 < Laurenceb> yeah but that should be too bad if properly designed
2020-01-03T20:03:37 < emeb> but that's a one-time thing after assembly
2020-01-03T20:03:50 < Laurenceb> unless you have really close antennas or something complex and metallic nearby
2020-01-03T20:04:12 < emeb> everyone has access to an anechoic chamber, right?
2020-01-03T20:06:24 < jadew> can you sync some cheap RTL-SDRs and skip all that?
2020-01-03T20:06:38 < srk> looks like it https://ptrkrysik.github.io/
2020-01-03T20:08:46 < Laurenceb> jadew: not easily
2020-01-03T20:09:07 < Laurenceb> jadew: its really not too hard to do DFT and track the carrier
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2020-01-03T20:20:35 < BrainDamage> there are some ready made blocks to sync rtls
2020-01-03T20:21:13 < BrainDamage> it's not trivial internally because they have to fiddle with things like disabling the pll dither, account for recalibration, etc etc
2020-01-03T20:21:57 < veverak> wat do you use to select CPU?
2020-01-03T20:22:12  * veverak just find out that G070 are better than F103 for him
2020-01-03T20:22:34 < Laurenceb> BrainDamage: I thought most of them have a discrete xtal for the front end?
2020-01-03T20:23:49 < BrainDamage> Laurenceb: you desolder the xtal on the boards and simply wire them together
2020-01-03T20:24:10 < BrainDamage> as in, one xtal feeds all the others
2020-01-03T20:24:20 < Laurenceb> oh fair enough
2020-01-03T20:24:43 < Laurenceb> seems like a nasty hack but if it works...
2020-01-03T20:25:10 < BrainDamage> it's ofc kinda inaccurate, esp compared to a single one, but yes, it works
2020-01-03T20:25:11  * Laurenceb likes the idea of a standalone array antenna with switches, powered by DC bias up the coax
2020-01-03T20:25:30 < BrainDamage> ideally you'd want a better clock since you're there
2020-01-03T20:25:39 < Laurenceb> then there is no need for heath robinson receiver kit
2020-01-03T20:26:13 < Laurenceb> you could probably do the dsp with standard blocks in gnu radio
2020-01-03T20:28:22 -!- c10ud [~c10ud@emesene/dictator/c10ud] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds]
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2020-01-03T20:29:57  * Laurenceb is trying to understand beam deflection
2020-01-03T20:30:41 < Laurenceb> anyone know why is there a fourth differential of deflection in Euler-Bernoulli beam theory?
2020-01-03T20:31:09 < Laurenceb> if deflection y=x^2 there has to be a force right?
2020-01-03T20:31:16  * Laurenceb is confused
2020-01-03T20:31:32 < Laurenceb> fourth differential gives zero
2020-01-03T20:32:03  * emeb has nightmares strength of materials class
2020-01-03T20:32:15 < emeb> ^about
2020-01-03T20:32:18 < Laurenceb> heh
2020-01-03T20:32:29 < Laurenceb> >just stick it in FEM software
2020-01-03T20:32:36 < emeb> ikr?
2020-01-03T20:32:52 < Laurenceb> annoyingly I'm trying to write a paper on space runway
2020-01-03T20:33:01 < Laurenceb> need to put in the proper maths
2020-01-03T20:33:05 < emeb> the prof for that class was always putting everything into giant matrices, so it reminded me a lot of SPICE.
2020-01-03T20:33:15 < Laurenceb> yeah I hate that stuff
2020-01-03T20:33:37 < Laurenceb> just seems confusing to me, just use standard algebra like everyone else
2020-01-03T20:34:04 < emeb> when your only tool is linear algebra, everything starts looking like a vector
2020-01-03T20:35:15 < Laurenceb> EId^4v(x)/dx^4=q(x)
2020-01-03T20:35:16 < Laurenceb> wtf
2020-01-03T20:35:29 < Laurenceb> q is force, v displacement
2020-01-03T20:35:49 < Laurenceb> if it was ^2 it would all make perfect sense to me
2020-01-03T20:37:26 < Laurenceb> according to that equation there should be whole classes of beam bending shapes that result in no forces right?
2020-01-03T20:37:56 < Laurenceb> yet in reality only a sloping beam sees no forces, so second differential?
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2020-01-03T20:45:41  * antto flips Loirens to the other side of the equals sign
2020-01-03T21:03:01 < jadew> back from dinner, the signal is not back yet
2020-01-03T21:03:10 < jadew> I'm almost a bit disappointed
2020-01-03T21:06:34 < Cracki> set it up to monitor and sound alarm if it shows up again?
2020-01-03T21:07:00 < Cracki> you could hunt for other signals on other frequencies instead
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2020-01-03T21:10:09 < jadew> wouldn't be as fun
2020-01-03T21:10:19 < jadew> if it starts again, I'll know
2020-01-03T21:12:04 < Steffanx> awh
2020-01-03T21:12:46 < jadew> I think this is also happening because my car's comms are dumb
2020-01-03T21:13:20 < jadew> when I talked to that neighbour, I asked him to open and close his car and his remote sent data on multiple frequencies
2020-01-03T21:13:42 < jadew> either that, or there was some back and forth communication
2020-01-03T21:14:46 < BrainDamage> a sane system should have challenge response
2020-01-03T21:14:59 < jadew> yeah, I don't think many do tho
2020-01-03T21:15:06 < BrainDamage> correct
2020-01-03T21:15:10 < BrainDamage> most do shitty workarounds
2020-01-03T21:15:37 < BrainDamage> car unlocking security codes are a shitshow
2020-01-03T21:16:51 < jadew> my previous car used to have a system that worked like the banking dongles
2020-01-03T21:17:44 < jadew> so it could desync
2020-01-03T21:18:09 < jadew> it never did, but that's what the service guys told me and that's how I made that deduction
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2020-01-03T21:19:17 < BrainDamage> yes, HOTP
2020-01-03T21:19:42 < BrainDamage> in order to account for desync, they have to accept a window of codes
2020-01-03T21:19:50 < jadew> yeah
2020-01-03T21:19:57 < jadew> and once you get a match, it syncs again
2020-01-03T21:20:13 < jadew> very smart system
2020-01-03T21:21:07 < jadew> you could get away without a challenge with it, but it wouldn't hurt to have one anyway
2020-01-03T21:21:22 < jadew> that ways, someone can't just copy the next code when you're at the restaurant
2020-01-03T21:21:34 < jadew> and accidentally presses the unlock button on your keys
2020-01-03T21:21:55 < jadew> *way
2020-01-03T21:22:46 < BrainDamage> yes and no
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2020-01-03T21:23:04 < BrainDamage> there's wireless repeaters for keyless fobs
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2020-01-03T21:23:28 < BrainDamage> you need 2 accomplices, one near the car, the other with the other device near you at restaurant/bar, whatever
2020-01-03T21:23:28 < jadew> that could work, yeah
2020-01-03T21:23:44 < BrainDamage> it's a thing, I'm not making it up
2020-01-03T21:24:02 < BrainDamage> now, car remotes are sane in that they have a button to confirm the user action
2020-01-03T21:24:09 < BrainDamage> but keyless fobs don't
2020-01-03T21:24:41 < BrainDamage> there's been plenty of thefts were the person was just sitting at the bar and the other just unlocked by walking close
2020-01-03T21:24:49 < BrainDamage> because there's no interaction needed from the user
2020-01-03T21:24:57 < jadew> oh, right!
2020-01-03T21:25:10 < jadew> forgot about those that open when you get near them
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2020-01-03T21:25:18 < jadew> damn... that's one big security flaw
2020-01-03T21:25:20 < BrainDamage> so what's considered a "feature" is an anti-feature
2020-01-03T21:25:40 < Laurenceb> ok I think I worked it out
2020-01-03T21:26:06 < Laurenceb> the key to Euler beam dynamics is the boundary conditions
2020-01-03T21:26:22 < Laurenceb> and q is _external_ force
2020-01-03T21:27:16 < Laurenceb> stuff like y=x^2 isnt a mode shape, so transverse waves "enter" the beam from the ends if its entered into a free space simulation in that shape
2020-01-03T21:28:21 < jadew> what are you trying to do?
2020-01-03T21:28:39 < Laurenceb> simulate giant trusses in orbit
2020-01-03T21:29:24 < Laurenceb> problem is 1) I'm writing a paper on it so need to have proper maths 2) the aspect ratios are crazy so standard FEM would use all my ram
2020-01-03T21:29:57 < BrainDamage> do you need an upper bound on sim error?
2020-01-03T21:30:17 < Laurenceb> hardly, its first order stuff
2020-01-03T21:30:24 < Laurenceb> +-50% is more than good enough
2020-01-03T21:31:54 < BrainDamage> are the materials you're simulating in linear strain region?
2020-01-03T21:32:05 < BrainDamage> because boundary method would work
2020-01-03T21:32:13 < BrainDamage> you'd be able to calculate a green function
2020-01-03T21:32:24 < Laurenceb> ok
2020-01-03T21:32:36 < Laurenceb> yeah linear strain, but dynamics are important
2020-01-03T21:32:56 < Laurenceb> my plan atm is to sim the truss made from 1d beams in octave
2020-01-03T21:33:25 < Laurenceb> the truss as a whole is taken past buckle limit for some time
2020-01-03T21:33:44 < Laurenceb> but the idea is to see how much the inertia of the truss holds it together
2020-01-03T21:34:41 < Laurenceb> arent green functions only applicable to static conditions?
2020-01-03T21:37:16 < Laurenceb> hmm I suppose I could expand as a series of mode shapes
2020-01-03T21:37:31 < Laurenceb> or just plug it into a 1d finite element mode for each element
2020-01-03T21:39:25 -!- BrainDamage [~BrainDama@unaffiliated/braindamage] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds]
2020-01-03T21:40:10 < Steffanx> I wonder how many actually have a clue what Laurenceb is rambling about. :)
2020-01-03T21:41:37 < jadew> he wants to build a bridge in space, using weather balloons
2020-01-03T21:42:53 < jadew> either that, or he's thinking about putting solar panels in orbit
2020-01-03T21:44:06 < Steffanx> Where will your theoretical run way bring us Laurenceb?
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2020-01-03T22:06:11 < karlp> it's to deliver chans into the uk from his space lair
2020-01-03T22:06:29 < jadew> lol
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2020-01-03T22:20:55 < BrainDamage> btw faprenceb, have you tried a fem with an absurdely coarse mesh first?
2020-01-03T22:21:02 < BrainDamage> just to see if even converges
2020-01-03T22:22:36 < Laurenceb> BrainDamage: I'm using Calculix, its always giving "non positive Jacobian" errors 
2020-01-03T22:22:59 < Laurenceb> theres probably something better thats opensores...
2020-01-03T22:23:38 < BrainDamage> calculix with freecad? :P
2020-01-03T22:23:52 < Laurenceb> yes
2020-01-03T22:24:07 < srk> I've played with that a bit as well, pretty cool for opensores
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2020-01-03T23:53:58 < mawk> my house coax wiring is a huge pile of shit actually Steffanx 
2020-01-03T23:55:04 < PaulFertser> Do you crimp those coax connectors or are they of screw-on type?
2020-01-03T23:55:10 < mawk> the cable starts at ground floor, comes up in my appartment in one socket, then another cable is plugged into that socket and goes on the roof, then another cable is plugged into that and comes down in the final socket where my modem is
2020-01-03T23:55:25 < mawk> it's neither of these
2020-01-03T23:55:35 < mawk> it's a cool connector, half turn
2020-01-03T23:55:36 < mawk> very sturdy
2020-01-03T23:55:52 < mawk> but these are mine, the shitty connectors that are there currently a crimped I think
2020-01-03T23:56:38 < mawk> it's called push-on PaulFertser 
2020-01-03T23:56:52 < mawk> there is a sleeve that goes between the outer insulator and the ground foil, it makes good contact
2020-01-03T23:56:53 < Steffanx> lol mawk. 
2020-01-03T23:57:06 < PaulFertser> mawk: sounds cool
2020-01-03T23:57:10 < mawk> hirschmann iec 5hf
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--- Day changed Sat Jan 04 2020
2020-01-04T00:00:04 < Steffanx> So: The solution is.. move the modem to where the first cable comes into your appartment mawk?
2020-01-04T00:00:12 < mawk> yes maybe
2020-01-04T00:00:17 < mawk> but it's in a bad place
2020-01-04T00:00:25 < mawk> in a corridor going to the room
2020-01-04T00:00:35 < mawk> I'd rather put a long cable there and hide the cable
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2020-01-04T00:11:36 < PaulFertser> mawk: does the modem allow you to see signal level and/or SNR so that you can quantify the results of your work?
2020-01-04T00:14:30 < Steffanx> i recall the ugly white ones(which he has iirc ) does not have that
2020-01-04T00:14:37 < Steffanx> the older cisco one did have some info
2020-01-04T00:15:04 < PaulFertser> Insanity
2020-01-04T00:18:47 < mawk> yeah no info
2020-01-04T00:18:48 < Steffanx> oh im sorry, it does have some SNR information.
2020-01-04T00:18:53 < mawk> I quantify using speedtest
2020-01-04T00:18:55 < mawk> ah ?
2020-01-04T00:18:57 < mawk> the UI is terrible
2020-01-04T00:19:03 < mawk> when you reload the page it logs you out
2020-01-04T00:19:13 < mawk> and it has terrible lag despite being a website in your LAN
2020-01-04T00:19:20 < jadew> Laurenceb, some solvers for RF are adjusting the mesh size based on where it needs the best detail
2020-01-04T00:19:25 < Steffanx> Hulpmiddelen > Netwerk Status or Tools > Network Status :P
2020-01-04T00:19:44 < mawk> I don't have this menu :(
2020-01-04T00:19:48 < Steffanx> What?
2020-01-04T00:19:52 < mawk> ah yes
2020-01-04T00:19:56 < jadew> maybe a pro tool would do the same for you
2020-01-04T00:20:00 < mawk> advanced settings -> tools -> network status
2020-01-04T00:20:05 < Steffanx> Ah yes
2020-01-04T00:20:20 < Steffanx> it took a while for the info to show up here
2020-01-04T00:20:33 < mawk> how to interpret this ?
2020-01-04T00:21:03 < Steffanx> Not sure. I got 24 Downstream channels and 4 up.
2020-01-04T00:21:06 < mawk> downstream bonded channels, upstream bonded channels
2020-01-04T00:21:09 < mawk> yes same
2020-01-04T00:21:42 < mawk> I have pre RS errors and post RS errors
2020-01-04T00:21:45 < mawk> high numbers
2020-01-04T00:21:46 < mawk> you too ?
2020-01-04T00:21:51 < Steffanx> Define high.
2020-01-04T00:22:50 < Steffanx> Pre RS Errors is huuge indeed. Post is small compared to that.
2020-01-04T00:23:02 < Laurenceb> jadew: yeah thats the pro method - dynamic remeshing
2020-01-04T00:23:09 < Laurenceb> aiui you can do that with elmer
2020-01-04T00:24:11 < mawk> like 357603430 for pre RS and 58613952 for post RS Steffanx 
2020-01-04T00:24:15 < mawk> both are the max
2020-01-04T00:24:26 < mawk> do you get high figures like that too
2020-01-04T00:24:53 < Steffanx> see query.
2020-01-04T00:24:59 < Steffanx> prvtmsg
2020-01-04T00:25:06 < mawk> a thanks
2020-01-04T00:25:43 < mawk> yeah I don't get how to interpret that
2020-01-04T00:25:47 < mawk> but I have higher numbers
2020-01-04T00:26:11 < Laurenceb> but dynamic remeshing doesnt help you sim silly things like beams with huge aspect ratio
2020-01-04T00:26:28 < Laurenceb> you have to make sensible simplifications, like 1d beam models
2020-01-04T00:27:24 < Laurenceb> somewhere there is a presentation on combined CFD+chemistry with dynamic remeshing and gpu acceleration developed by spacex
2020-01-04T00:29:51 < Steffanx> mawk: since its pre-post error correction stuff your numbers are huge indeed
2020-01-04T00:30:26 < Steffanx> And i think my uptime is a bit higher that yours.
2020-01-04T00:31:14 < mawk> yeah
2020-01-04T00:31:17 < mawk> rebooted today
2020-01-04T00:31:56 < zyp> a bit late since I already ordered a new phone, but what android phones are good nowadays?
2020-01-04T00:32:17 < Steffanx> Define good.
2020-01-04T00:32:41 < Steffanx> Some want an awesome camera, others some bare android, others want cheap, others want ..
2020-01-04T00:33:09 < mawk> pixels zyp 
2020-01-04T00:33:10 < mawk> I like them
2020-01-04T00:33:15 < zyp> I like updated android without a lot of vendor bullshit and I also like cheap, and I'm not buying a phone without nfc
2020-01-04T00:33:17 < mawk> pure android experience, hackable fro mthe go
2020-01-04T00:33:33 < mawk> I bought a pixel 1 xl 2 years ago, still very good
2020-01-04T00:33:40 < mawk> but google dropped support last december sadly
2020-01-04T00:33:42 < zyp> well, yeah, the phone I'm replacing is a nexus 5x, and before that I had a nexus 4
2020-01-04T00:33:59 < mawk> I had nexus 5x before but it suffered the hardware bug
2020-01-04T00:34:05 < zyp> so the pixel series is an obvious contender
2020-01-04T00:34:07 < mawk> something about motherboard bending under heat
2020-01-04T00:34:15 < mawk> and SoC popping off or something
2020-01-04T00:34:26 < zyp> yeah, I got the motherboard replaced last summer due to that, and now it's happening again, so I sent it in yesterday
2020-01-04T00:34:48 < Steffanx> So whats the SNR in mawkland?
2020-01-04T00:35:13 < jadew> 1
2020-01-04T00:35:24 < mawk> around 35
2020-01-04T00:35:37 < Steffanx> hm
2020-01-04T00:35:46 < zyp> the store gave me a moto c as a loaner phone while the nexus is being repaired, but it's so terrible I ended up ordering a new phone rather than waiting to get the nexus back
2020-01-04T00:36:19 < jadew> I'm looking for a tablet for the kitchen wall and possibly a laptop for myself
2020-01-04T00:36:28 < jadew> very difficult to find a nice laptop these days
2020-01-04T00:36:44 < Steffanx> Apple.com.
2020-01-04T00:36:47 < zyp> when the store guy pulled off the back cover and took out the battery to insert the sim card, I was thinking «the fuck, is that a ten year old phone?»
2020-01-04T00:36:51 < jadew> I hate the no button trackpads
2020-01-04T00:37:16 < zyp> turns out it's a 2017 phone, with micro-usb and 1 GB RAM
2020-01-04T00:37:18 < mawk> is that good Steffanx ?
2020-01-04T00:37:25 < zyp> bottom of the barrel shit
2020-01-04T00:37:31 < mawk> 35dB
2020-01-04T00:39:46 < zyp> last time I sent the nexus in for repair, I borrowed a moto g7 play, which was fairly decent for a cheap phone
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2020-01-04T00:40:19 < zyp> so I looked at maybe getting a g8 plus
2020-01-04T00:40:29 < emeb> so what did you end up ordering?
2020-01-04T00:40:47 < zyp> not super awesome, but it got the features I want and is probably more powerful than the nexus
2020-01-04T00:40:59 < Steffanx> my moto 5gs plus was good.
2020-01-04T00:41:00 < Steffanx> enough
2020-01-04T00:41:13 < Steffanx> but yeah its oldish
2020-01-04T00:41:22 < Steffanx> now
2020-01-04T00:41:37 < zyp> I played around with it in the store today
2020-01-04T00:41:54 < Steffanx> lol i never do that. i read some reviews and buy it online :)
2020-01-04T00:42:19 < zyp> well, I went to the store to pick up some other stuff, so I figured I might as well look while I were there
2020-01-04T00:43:08 < zyp> also looked at the other options, found oneplus 7t to be pretty interesting, just twice as expensive
2020-01-04T00:45:06 < zyp> so I left it at that and got home and weighed the options
2020-01-04T00:45:27 < englishman> I think my next phone will be an iphone
2020-01-04T00:45:38 < zyp> the moto is still on android 9, will probably get android 10 and end at that
2020-01-04T00:45:43 < englishman> as I assume the next one will be usbc
2020-01-04T00:45:51 < zyp> the oneplus will probably get updates for years
2020-01-04T00:47:10 < zyp> and then the tipping point was when I found out that my carrier can sell me the oneplus at zero-interest 36-month financing, without a contract or simlock or any bullshit
2020-01-04T00:48:01 < zyp> I don't really want to spend 6300 NOK on a phone now, but 175 NOK a month is no problem
2020-01-04T00:48:16 < zyp> and considering inflation it's even cheaper :p
2020-01-04T00:48:18 < englishman> I thought the nexus phones were really expensive and actually not supported by Google after ~1.5 years
2020-01-04T00:48:20 < Steffanx> englishman are you trolling now?
2020-01-04T00:48:24 < englishman> no Steffanx
2020-01-04T00:48:39 < Steffanx> A real engineer does not use Appleware.
2020-01-04T00:48:43 < Steffanx> lol.
2020-01-04T00:48:47 < englishman> there are not a lot of reasons to stick with assdroid imo
2020-01-04T00:48:52 < Steffanx> true
2020-01-04T00:49:01 < englishman> as everything is now super vendor locked, closed and gay, just like apple
2020-01-04T00:49:12 < semikaki> gay32
2020-01-04T00:49:23 < Steffanx> and apple will just drain the battery of your iphone with the last update they give you
2020-01-04T00:49:39 < Steffanx> so you can get a new one. You assdroid phone will just be on 4.4 forever.
2020-01-04T00:49:43 < englishman> hey assdroid does that without any updates at all
2020-01-04T00:49:47 < semikaki> there is nothing wrong with apple!
2020-01-04T00:49:54 < semikaki> you just use it wrong man
2020-01-04T00:49:59 < Steffanx> Are you on drugs semikaki?
2020-01-04T00:50:10 < semikaki> I just woke up
2020-01-04T00:50:14 < Steffanx> ah i see
2020-01-04T00:50:29  * emeb has a 4yo android 4.4 LG that cost all of $60. 
2020-01-04T00:50:32  * emeb is old
2020-01-04T00:50:37 < Steffanx> 4.4 is awful
2020-01-04T00:50:42 < emeb> it works
2020-01-04T00:50:50 < Steffanx> you missed the question about SMA connectors, semikaki aka smakimir.
2020-01-04T00:50:57 < semikaki> who has cared about android version since like 4.0
2020-01-04T00:51:17 < semikaki> smackmir
2020-01-04T00:51:39 < englishman> besides Samsung pay idk if there's any useful features after 4.4
2020-01-04T00:51:49 < PaulFertser> I think if I'm forced to use a smartphone I'd get the cheapest shit supported by lineageos and would tweak and use it as little as possible, probably overwriting both system and data partition from a backup each Monday.
2020-01-04T00:52:42 < doomba> that reminds me i really need to write a TOTP app for KaiOS for my "dumb" flip phone
2020-01-04T00:53:19 < emeb> PaulFertser: So this is you -> https://twitter.com/juliagalef/status/950973936455446528/photo/1
2020-01-04T00:54:33 < Steffanx> Such twatter
2020-01-04T00:56:34 < semikaki> the big three have entered oil research
2020-01-04T00:56:45 < semikaki> with their learning algorithm tools
2020-01-04T01:01:40 < PaulFertser> emeb: haha :) Actually I'm kinda feeling uneasy about all those silly errors and problems that android forces on their users. E.g. newpipe not able to save to SD card because the API changed to something unusable and other insanity like that. I'd be feeling digging filth trying to cope with all that stupidity.
2020-01-04T01:06:23 < Steffanx> Thats what you get when you use those hacker apps PaulFertser ;)
2020-01-04T01:08:34 < PaulFertser> Steffanx: it's just an example because with those apps you can actually understand what's happening and why.
2020-01-04T01:11:01 < PaulFertser> (as there's source code, bugtracker etc; regular users of regular apps just suffer in the darkness but it's the same deal, eternal insanity aimed to please carriers and google)
2020-01-04T01:13:11 < englishman> oh shit there's probably no newpipe on apple
2020-01-04T01:13:14 < englishman> never mind
2020-01-04T01:13:18 < englishman> sticking with assdroid
2020-01-04T01:17:57 < PaulFertser> Steffanx: another example: some apps can have notifications in the regular panel, some can't. Google decides on whitelist. I'd guess there're many more examples.
2020-01-04T01:18:00 < BrainDamage> i just use firefox to play youtube videos
2020-01-04T01:19:53 < PaulFertser> Steffanx: and any application can be arbitrarily removed from the play store, sometimes along with all the other apps by this developer and often with apps from aother "somehow affiliated" developers.
2020-01-04T01:21:14 < PaulFertser> How can you count on anything that's governed by the bunch of ML bots?..
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2020-01-04T01:24:09 < englishman> does iPhone have Firefox
2020-01-04T01:24:19 < bitmask> https://i.imgur.com/hhCNX8M.png
2020-01-04T01:24:21 < PaulFertser> Yes, people share euristics how to minimise the risk... I'm happy I'm not touching this ocean of filth.
2020-01-04T01:25:01 < englishman> I switched to duckduckgo on mobile to get rid of google AMP garbage and the results are pretty good, I'm going to try it on desktop at work for technical searches etc. and see how good it is for research
2020-01-04T01:26:16 < BrainDamage> I use it as daily driver, for ~80% of the things is ok
2020-01-04T01:26:29 < BrainDamage> google can show better results for the remaining 20%
2020-01-04T01:26:50 < BrainDamage> also, ddg doesn't have reverse image search unfortunately
2020-01-04T01:27:11 < englishman> does google?
2020-01-04T01:27:18 < BrainDamage> yes
2020-01-04T01:27:29 < englishman> I thought google only returns Pinterest image search results
2020-01-04T01:27:38 < BrainDamage> reverse image search searches by similarity
2020-01-04T01:27:54 < BrainDamage> it's super shit ofc, but when you're desperate, it's better than no search
2020-01-04T01:30:45 < qyx> it tries to guess search string from the image
2020-01-04T01:30:52 < qyx> and then performs a regular image search
2020-01-04T01:30:54 < qyx> doesn't it?
2020-01-04T01:32:33 < BrainDamage> no, you can upload your own pics
2020-01-04T01:32:38 < Steffanx> lol google and pinterest. how to ban them forever?
2020-01-04T01:32:39 < BrainDamage> and searches by similarity
2020-01-04T01:33:43 < qyx> BrainDamage: I know, but then it generates some words from them
2020-01-04T01:34:18 < BrainDamage> ah it's possible that it aguments the hits with keywords from the hit results
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2020-01-04T01:41:04 < zyp> englishman, switching to iphone sounds like a hassle from an apps perspective
2020-01-04T01:41:37 < zyp> not that I use any big killer apps that's only available on android (that I know of)
2020-01-04T01:41:54 < zyp> but probably a ton of small apps
2020-01-04T01:42:06 < zyp> and shit I've paid for
2020-01-04T01:42:17 < aandrew> I've been using iphone since 3G, android look like a fucking wasteland of shit, just like linux on desktop
2020-01-04T01:43:29 < zyp> I got a ton of google play credit I can't use for anything else, so I just spend that on anything that lets me choose between paying or seeing ads
2020-01-04T01:43:38 < englishman> zyp: exactly, no major apps, just small things <$5 that are probably better on iphone
2020-01-04T01:43:59 < zyp> if they even exist at all on iphone
2020-01-04T01:44:06 < zyp> oh, also
2020-01-04T01:44:13 < zyp> how's carplay nowadays?
2020-01-04T01:44:27 < englishman> no idea, tried it in a Mazda and didn't like it
2020-01-04T01:44:46 < zyp> carplay with apple maps didn't look particularly impressive when I tried it like four years ago
2020-01-04T01:45:00 < zyp> would much rather have android auto with google maps
2020-01-04T01:45:12 < englishman> oh yeah the tesla takes care of that
2020-01-04T01:45:24 < zyp> fair enough
2020-01-04T01:45:32 < englishman> even works with windows phone and blackberry
2020-01-04T01:45:58 < aandrew> carplay is a lot better than it was, it's been opened up a bit
2020-01-04T01:46:14 < zyp> I guess if my car also had builtin google maps, I wouldn't care about android auto
2020-01-04T01:46:32 < zyp> but I'm not buying a new car just so I can buy an iphone
2020-01-04T01:46:39 < englishman> heh
2020-01-04T01:46:43 < mawk> Steffanx: I did it !
2020-01-04T01:46:58 < englishman> I can't imagine Apple's auto being worse than android
2020-01-04T01:47:03 < englishman> android was pretty bad
2020-01-04T01:47:06 < Steffanx> Did you kill the president mawk?
2020-01-04T01:47:39 < Steffanx> Imagine you have a Tesla with apps.
2020-01-04T01:47:41 < semikaki> ##assassin32
2020-01-04T01:47:43 < mawk> https://serveur.io/speedtest.png
2020-01-04T01:47:54 < Steffanx> Upload can be better :P
2020-01-04T01:48:05 < Steffanx> and what did you do?
2020-01-04T01:48:29 < zyp> idk, IME android auto is pretty good
2020-01-04T01:48:58 < mawk> I removed the hackish cable-out-of-the-wall-into-its-own-plug Steffanx 
2020-01-04T01:49:05 < mawk> which had a short-circuit between the core and the foil
2020-01-04T01:49:06 < zyp> looked like they did some major UI reorganization recently though, and I haven't used it enough lately to tell how happy I'm with that
2020-01-04T01:49:09 < mawk> it was made by a total amateur
2020-01-04T01:49:20 < mawk> so, the cause of all that was a short-circuit apparently
2020-01-04T01:49:23 < Steffanx> hehe, sure it was. Arent you?
2020-01-04T01:49:31 < mawk> I'm a pro amateur
2020-01-04T01:49:36 < mawk> my wiring is beautiful
2020-01-04T01:49:40 < mawk> and short-less
2020-01-04T01:49:43 < Steffanx> Hows the motopet semikaki?
2020-01-04T01:49:50 < semikaki> motopet :o
2020-01-04T01:50:01 < Steffanx> or whatever you had
2020-01-04T01:50:06 < semikaki> in winter hibernation
2020-01-04T01:50:09 < Steffanx> mopet.
2020-01-04T01:50:14 < semikaki> mopeti
2020-01-04T01:50:25 < Steffanx> Is there ice and snow yet?
2020-01-04T01:50:37 < semikaki> what else there would be
2020-01-04T01:50:47 < semikaki> ice, snow
2020-01-04T01:50:48 < Steffanx> Rain and clouds. like here
2020-01-04T01:50:58 < semikaki> yes it's raining waters now
2020-01-04T01:51:09 < semikaki> everything is icy
2020-01-04T01:52:32 < semikaki> some would call it winter
2020-01-04T01:52:49 < Steffanx> Its winter here too, but mother nature doesnt know that yet
2020-01-04T01:53:01 < semikaki> but if waters are raining it reminds me more of a summer
2020-01-04T01:53:33 < semikaki> I have not seen a sun for many months
2020-01-04T01:53:37 < semikaki> *the sun
2020-01-04T01:54:00 < Steffanx> hm
2020-01-04T01:54:03 < qyx> hows your private island semikaki 
2020-01-04T01:54:21 < semikaki> please remind me I have so many real estate projects
2020-01-04T01:54:42 < qyx> I would buy one if I could
2020-01-04T01:54:52 < semikaki> private island on coast of africa
2020-01-04T01:55:06 < Steffanx> nah no ty
2020-01-04T01:55:11 < Steffanx> too many pirates.
2020-01-04T01:55:14 < semikaki> next to somalia
2020-01-04T01:55:19 < semikaki> should be cheap
2020-01-04T01:55:34 < qyx> but somehow the ground/water ratio is inverted here
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2020-01-04T02:30:28 < antto> https://i.imgur.com/mHopqGx.mp4
2020-01-04T02:30:53 < antto> uhm, "NSFW" ^
2020-01-04T02:31:02 < aandrew> not sure what I was expecting
2020-01-04T02:33:38 < Steffanx> Lol antto  
2020-01-04T02:37:43 < emeb_mac> kitties
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2020-01-04T02:47:48 < aandrew> hm interesting: https://community.st.com/s/question/0D50X00009XkhAxSAJ/uart-rx-with-dma-missing-bytes
2020-01-04T02:48:39 < aandrew> a potential workaround to read a "safe"peripheral reg before reading teh buffer
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2020-01-04T03:08:17 < Thorn> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MFy6Nvqnno8
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2020-01-04T03:46:32 < jadew> amazon prime has shows for furries
2020-01-04T03:55:19  * Mangy_Dog barks
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2020-01-04T04:03:45 < Steffanx> Ty for this information jadew 
2020-01-04T04:03:56 < Steffanx> What happened to the schedule thing? ;)
2020-01-04T04:15:06 < Thorn> https://twitter.com/Liv_Boeree/status/1213175290014445568
2020-01-04T04:17:39 -!- bitmask [~bitmask@c-73-215-237-27.hsd1.nj.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: Gone to sleep...]
2020-01-04T04:28:43 < jadew> Steffanx, had to stay awake to talk to someone from China
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2020-01-04T04:29:15 < jadew> and now I kinda want to relax, but I can't find a movie
2020-01-04T04:42:57 < jadew> ok, I'm off to bed, night
2020-01-04T05:06:42 < Laurenceb> http://www.halikkosteel.com/solutions/cold-formed-dished-and-flanged-ends/
2020-01-04T05:06:48 < Laurenceb> elon musk on suicide watch
2020-01-04T05:07:02 < Laurenceb> http://www.halikkosteel.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/05/inside_head.jpg
2020-01-04T05:07:13 < Laurenceb> musk utterly and eternally btfo'd
2020-01-04T05:11:01 < aandrew> why would that make elon upset?
2020-01-04T05:11:11 < aandrew> I'm not up on my elonisms
2020-01-04T05:14:21 < englishman> Laurenceb is upset that $tsla is $450
2020-01-04T05:14:42 < Laurenceb> aandrew: spacex is failing to make hemispheric bulkheads
2020-01-04T05:15:04 < englishman> Laurenceb preordered the electric ford "mustang"
2020-01-04T05:21:48 -!- Laurenceb [~laurence@106.200.208.46.dyn.plus.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds]
2020-01-04T05:21:50 < englishman> Laurenceb, a jobless criminal "academic" can solve all of spacex's problems but won't
2020-01-04T05:22:36 < BrainDamage> probably he tried to get hired and got a bitter refusal
2020-01-04T05:23:01 < englishman> spacex can't hire foreigners afaik
2020-01-04T05:23:40 < englishman> probably bitter enough for laurenceb tho
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2020-01-04T05:47:09 < semikaki> bitter
2020-01-04T05:48:18 < semikaki> whjat is up with those flanged heads?
2020-01-04T05:48:26 < semikaki> I see it's a finnish company
2020-01-04T05:53:16 < aandrew> hey I got my head flanged the other night
2020-01-04T05:53:20 < aandrew> best $50 ever
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2020-01-04T06:51:33 < doomba> does this usb type c look correct? https://git.salcedo.tech/salcedo/cluster-controller/raw/branch/master/cluster-controller-module.pdf
2020-01-04T06:54:00 < doomba> (kicad hides some of the pins in that symbol - so assume they're connected properly)
2020-01-04T06:54:10 < doomba> just overall is this what it should look like?
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2020-01-04T07:06:03 < semikaki> lurencer
2020-01-04T07:22:23 < jpa-> doomba: assuming A4 = A4+B4+A9+B9 and A1 = A1+B1+A12+B12, looks quite ok; i think the general recommendation is to connect shield to gnd via a small capacitor instead of directly, but it'll work either way
2020-01-04T07:25:00 < jpa-> doomba: the RC filter on the FETs seems quite extreme, but i guess you have reasons for it?
2020-01-04T07:26:53 < jpa-> doomba: i'd suggest some lower voltage FET instead of 2N7002, because that won't turn on very well with 3.3V on the gate; e.g. BSH105 or AO3400
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2020-01-04T08:26:38 < PaulFertser> mawk: I wonder how it performs bufferbloat-wise on dslreports.com speedtest.
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2020-01-04T10:26:27 < Cracki> electricity needs to be so cheap that you only get flatrate contracts
2020-01-04T11:15:53 < qyx> jpa-: thats the question, some connect gnd directly, some through a ferrite bead, the same for the shield, FB, cap or directly
2020-01-04T11:15:58 < qyx> is there an ultimate correct answer?
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2020-01-04T11:39:52 < qyx> did anyone use mlcc caps for Vrtc/Vbat?
2020-01-04T11:40:29 < qyx> or is it a dead end
2020-01-04T11:40:58 < qyx> two 1206 100u/6V3 give about 100s at 3uA going from 2.8V to 1.2V
2020-01-04T11:41:35 < qyx> which should be enough for eg. changing a SIM/SD card
2020-01-04T11:44:49 < qyx> doomba: I would add 10n/FB/100n filter on Vbus
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2020-01-04T11:50:35 < nullkaki> Cracki: how could you flatrate energy?
2020-01-04T11:50:49 < Cracki> like internet, cellular service, ...
2020-01-04T11:51:02 < nullkaki> as it is the basic essence of all growth
2020-01-04T11:51:38 < Cracki> we should live in an abundance of energy. we could.
2020-01-04T11:52:26 < nullkaki> there would be always a way to sink it all
2020-01-04T11:52:32 < nullkaki> and more
2020-01-04T11:52:40 < Cracki> that's no reason to keep it scarce
2020-01-04T11:52:55 < nullkaki> oh I forgot the context
2020-01-04T11:52:56 < Cracki> we need a nuclear reactor in every small town
2020-01-04T11:53:11 < nullkaki> you pay a lot for electricity
2020-01-04T11:53:43 < Cracki> not just that, we have genocidal maniacs ruling us
2020-01-04T11:53:55 < Cracki> also, iran did nothing wrong
2020-01-04T11:54:05 < nullkaki> globalist dogs
2020-01-04T11:54:48 < nullkaki> but what really happend you opened your electricity bill today and it upset you
2020-01-04T11:55:38 < nullkaki> when something has high price you should sell it
2020-01-04T11:55:41 < nullkaki> not buy it
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2020-01-04T11:57:42 < qyx> flatrating energy would not motivate people to save it
2020-01-04T11:57:51 < qyx> I would flatrate with hard max
2020-01-04T11:58:39 < qyx> but this still may not work
2020-01-04T11:58:40 < qyx> ok, idk
2020-01-04T11:58:51 < Cracki> do you want to motivate people to save IP packets?
2020-01-04T11:58:52 < qyx> let the capitalists deal with it
2020-01-04T11:59:08 < nullkaki> flatrating is not how capitalism works
2020-01-04T11:59:21 < qyx> I didn't say that
2020-01-04T11:59:43 < qyx> Cracki: IP packets are made of nothing
2020-01-04T11:59:44 < nullkaki> it was the deal back then cracki
2020-01-04T11:59:45 < Cracki> do you want to go back to metered internet?
2020-01-04T11:59:52 < Cracki> ip packets cost time and energy to move
2020-01-04T12:00:00 < Cracki> you should go back to metered internet
2020-01-04T12:00:04 < Cracki> do it
2020-01-04T12:00:04 < qyx> yes, the same apply for electricity
2020-01-04T12:00:18 < Cracki> right now, go back to metered internet
2020-01-04T12:00:34 < Cracki> pay by the packet, or by the minute
2020-01-04T12:00:40 < nullkaki> the network has a plenty of capacity as technology allows it
2020-01-04T12:00:45 < qyx> I am paying on 4G
2020-01-04T12:01:02 < qyx> full 2€ for 1GB
2020-01-04T12:01:06 < Cracki> you're avoiding the subject
2020-01-04T12:01:48 < Cracki> "I am paying for my mobile data" is the equivalent of "one of my best friends is black!"
2020-01-04T12:02:06 < Cracki> switch your home internet to metered
2020-01-04T12:02:06 < qyx> I don't have anything other
2020-01-04T12:02:14 < qyx> my home internet is 10€ for 100G
2020-01-04T12:02:18 < qyx> 4G too
2020-01-04T12:02:38 < Cracki> wouldn't you like that to be unlimited flat rate?
2020-01-04T12:02:52 < qyx> no, because all my traffic is ~160G/year
2020-01-04T12:03:01 < qyx> so 100G/mo is pletny
2020-01-04T12:03:54 < Cracki> you're still arguing for maintaining scarcity
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2020-01-04T12:04:01 < qyx> not true
2020-01-04T12:04:15 < Cracki> diamonds are precious because they're kept scarce
2020-01-04T12:04:16 < qyx> I am arguing for motivating people save all resources
2020-01-04T12:04:30 < Cracki> that's an entirely orthogonal matter
2020-01-04T12:04:35 < nullkaki> using rf bandwidth is expensive
2020-01-04T12:05:14 < nullkaki> why save something that is plenty?
2020-01-04T12:05:27 < Cracki> power over microwave beam would be expensive too
2020-01-04T12:05:35 < Cracki> that's why people use *copper wire*
2020-01-04T12:06:10 < qyx> ok, so electricity is flatrate
2020-01-04T12:06:19 < Cracki> yes. imagine such a world.
2020-01-04T12:06:24 < qyx> uhm, why would I buy anything other than a direct electricity heater
2020-01-04T12:06:29 < qyx> all otheres are more expensive
2020-01-04T12:06:40 < qyx> so solar, no heat pumps
2020-01-04T12:06:49 < Cracki> uh, because fossil oil is now a precious resource
2020-01-04T12:06:50 < qyx> just a plain old electric heater
2020-01-04T12:06:57 < Cracki> because it's needed to make plastic
2020-01-04T12:07:09 < Cracki> "so solar"?
2020-01-04T12:07:12 < nullkaki> why to even insulate your house qyx
2020-01-04T12:07:17 < qyx> that too
2020-01-04T12:07:28 < qyx> we may radiate half of the heat to the surroundings
2020-01-04T12:07:29 < Cracki> why would you waste something?
2020-01-04T12:07:36 < qyx> because it is cheap
2020-01-04T12:07:42 < nullkaki> because wasting is easy
2020-01-04T12:07:43 < Cracki> ok, you go gulag
2020-01-04T12:07:45 < qyx> how would you force people to save?
2020-01-04T12:07:48 < Cracki> gulag
2020-01-04T12:07:54 < qyx> uhm
2020-01-04T12:07:56 < Cracki> easy answer :P
2020-01-04T12:08:19 < nullkaki> stalin
2020-01-04T12:08:20 < qyx> so 95% of the west world would live in gulags
2020-01-04T12:08:30 < Cracki> how would you force people to not waste their internet traffic?
2020-01-04T12:08:33 < qyx> because you basically don't need a car with >1L cylinder volume
2020-01-04T12:08:41 < Cracki> some admin notices the abuse and cuts you off by discretionary power
2020-01-04T12:08:46 < nullkaki> what is wasting internet trafic?
2020-01-04T12:08:55 < nullkaki> watching netflix?
2020-01-04T12:09:12 < qyx> for example
2020-01-04T12:09:19 < Cracki> downloading the same shit over and over, or opening a million connections to the same server
2020-01-04T12:09:34 < qyx> so clouds are wasting internets
2020-01-04T12:09:42 < nullkaki> indeed
2020-01-04T12:09:51 < Cracki> does not follow
2020-01-04T12:10:00 < qyx> you have your work remote
2020-01-04T12:10:06 < qyx> you are downloading it over and over
2020-01-04T12:10:24 < Cracki> is that cheaper than a local cache
2020-01-04T12:10:34 < qyx> cheaper doesn't matter
2020-01-04T12:10:36 < qyx> it is wasting
2020-01-04T12:10:43 < qyx> we are talking flat rate
2020-01-04T12:11:11 < Cracki> so you want to live in a world that hasn't figured out how to generate all the power it needs cheaply and conveniently, or not?
2020-01-04T12:11:28 < qyx> I don't
2020-01-04T12:11:31 < qyx> but people are dumb
2020-01-04T12:11:39 < Cracki> gulag solves that
2020-01-04T12:11:41 < qyx> in a way they don't want to cooperate
2020-01-04T12:11:48 < qyx> because there are cheap ways of doing things
2020-01-04T12:11:52 < nullkaki> cracki takes his waste critical activism further than anyone
2020-01-04T12:11:57 < qyx> and saving doesn't mean going cheap
2020-01-04T12:12:08 < Cracki> nullkaki, I'm not the one critical of waste :P
2020-01-04T12:12:26 < qyx> basically I agree with you
2020-01-04T12:12:29 < Cracki> I'm just saying if you want to change the world... there are ways, but first you have to have a dream
2020-01-04T12:12:33 < qyx> in an ideal world, most of the resources would be free
2020-01-04T12:12:39 < qyx> but you see, you need gulags
2020-01-04T12:12:46 < Cracki> eugenics would help you make the ultimate resource-saving human
2020-01-04T12:13:04 < Cracki> now, are gulags wasting resources or saving them?
2020-01-04T12:13:05 < nullkaki> there is always waste
2020-01-04T12:13:19 < Cracki> how would the ideal gulag look like? how would it recycle?
2020-01-04T12:13:25 < qyx> pls
2020-01-04T12:13:28 < qyx> ok, back to work
2020-01-04T12:13:30 < Cracki> biosphere 2 :>
2020-01-04T12:13:51 < Cracki> they don't cart anything out of there
2020-01-04T12:14:21 < Cracki> everyone they put in there lost their marbles, and all they did was work until they were exhausted
2020-01-04T12:20:31 < nullkaki> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LuMIrHlAf2Q Cracki
2020-01-04T12:20:53 < Cracki> intro: slamming gulag doors
2020-01-04T12:21:21 < Cracki> we need moar hard scifi in the media
2020-01-04T12:22:34 < Cracki> I weep when I see those magnificent structures and then compare them to the bumfuck little towns I see around my area
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2020-01-04T12:39:06 < Steffanx> ^ wasnt the discussion a waste of energy on it's own? 
2020-01-04T12:40:23 < jpa-> purpose of everything is to increase entropy, there can be no waste of energy
2020-01-04T12:41:22 < qyx> to be helpful, hows your adjustable vreg going
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2020-01-04T12:51:51 < Jak_o_Shadows> YOu can't have simple electricity pricing. The poles and wires are a fixed cost
2020-01-04T12:52:16 < Jak_o_Shadows> jpa-, well, that's a philosophy.
2020-01-04T12:53:05 < zyp> Jak_o_Shadows, over here, that's usually on a different contract
2020-01-04T12:53:48 < zyp> you've got one contract with an electricity provider to pay for the energy and then you've got one contract with the local grid owner to pay for having that energy delivered to your house
2020-01-04T12:53:56 < Jak_o_Shadows> I think it's combined here
2020-01-04T12:53:58 < dongs> sup dongs.
2020-01-04T12:54:04 < dongs> zyp your shit will send monday cuz lol japan holidays
2020-01-04T12:54:28 < zyp> dongs, sure, np
2020-01-04T12:54:29 < Jak_o_Shadows> It's one of the things that makes the spot price (https://www.aemo.com.au/Electricity/National-Electricity-Market-NEM/Data-dashboard) not entirely relevant
2020-01-04T12:55:37 < zyp> Jak_o_Shadows, well, I also get it on the same bill, but that's because my electricity provider receives the invoice from my grid owner and combines it into one invoice
2020-01-04T12:56:16 < zyp> it's of course also possible for a company to both be a grid owner and an electricity provider
2020-01-04T12:56:34 < zyp> and yes
2020-01-04T12:57:01 < zyp> I also don't worry much about spot price fluctuations, usually grid use costs as much as the energy itself
2020-01-04T12:57:24 < nullkaki> ghetto is cozy
2020-01-04T12:57:46 < Jak_o_Shadows> Yeah, but there's a lot of media fuss around the spot price, annoyingly
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2020-01-04T12:59:41 < Steffanx> How ghetto is your sauna nullkaki ? (And damn how many nicks do you have)
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2020-01-04T13:04:04 < Steffanx> At least have your nick start with kaki,  so we can find you nullkaki semikaki 
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2020-01-04T13:04:27 < nullkaki> I'm fluid
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2020-01-04T13:08:18 < zyp> qyx, I got some more thought put into plug in card layout now, I think I'm gonna go with a basic footprint that fits within 50x50
2020-01-04T13:09:47 < qyx> the PI CM doesn't fit
2020-01-04T13:10:06 < zyp> no, that card would be 75x50 or so: https://bin.jvnv.net/file/cs8Oi.png
2020-01-04T13:11:03 < zyp> but the pcie edge would be placed on the left 50mm of the card, so that any 50mm wide card can reach the connector side
2020-01-04T13:11:54 < zyp> not sure how much room I should give between connector side and the plug in edge though
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2020-01-04T13:35:23 < jpa-> qyx: well i put this in schematic  https://jpa.kapsi.fi/stuff/pix/vreg.png   but not sure if it will work; i needed quite wide adjustment range so the resistor + adjustable regulator seemed difficult
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2020-01-04T14:47:47 < dongs> jpa-: sneaky
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2020-01-04T14:54:07 < doomba> jpa-: what i'm trying to achieve with the RC circuit at the gate of each fet is to knock out a glitch.
2020-01-04T14:56:36 < doomba> jpa-: the CP2108 usb uart IC is has configurable GPIO via a customizer tool. There are two settings (gpio push/pull or open drain, and the latch setting) for each GPIO line - and these masks can be set for both poweron/reset and suspend state
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2020-01-04T14:57:30 < doomba> one would think customizing the GPIOs to push/pull and latch "low" for each gpio means the gpios are low when the device powers on. and this is correct.
2020-01-04T14:59:12 < doomba> however, the chip is "bugged", and when poweron/reset occurs, it assumes the default (all gpios go high) for a short period (but long enough to turn on the FETs and the relays) until the customizations are honored.
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2020-01-04T15:00:34 < doomba> thus the RC circuit is an attempt to delay switching on the FETs when a gpio line goes high - but the initial power on glitch gets ignored.
2020-01-04T15:01:09 < qyx> doomba: sch?
2020-01-04T15:01:34 < qyx> I see
2020-01-04T15:01:38 < qyx> lastlog clear
2020-01-04T15:01:39 < doomba> qyx: it should be in your scrollback
2020-01-04T15:01:41 < doomba> oh
2020-01-04T15:01:43 < doomba> you don't see it?
2020-01-04T15:01:48 < qyx> I see now
2020-01-04T15:02:33 < qyx> I though you were doing some more hardcore rc filtering, thats seem to be okish
2020-01-04T15:02:59 < doomba> yea all i'm doing is trying to delay the fets turning on for about 100ms
2020-01-04T15:03:32 < qyx> should be ok, not much current to blow them
2020-01-04T15:03:39 < doomba> which should be ample time for the glitch to be ignored
2020-01-04T15:04:00 < doomba> and yes they work just fine. my first prototype withouth the RC filter but using the same fets works great except for that power glitch
2020-01-04T15:04:11 < doomba> and i could even live with that but i want it to be perfect
2020-01-04T15:04:36 < doomba> however, jpa- mentioned something about 3.3v not turning those on
2020-01-04T15:04:52 < doomba> with the RC filter, i have 10K in series with hte gates now
2020-01-04T15:06:11 < dongs> < doomba> however, the chip is "bugged", and when poweron/reset occurs, it assumes the default (all gpios go high) for a
2020-01-04T15:06:14 < dongs>                 short period (but long enough to turn on the FETs and the relays) until the customizations are honored.
2020-01-04T15:06:17 < dongs> wow, thats dumb as hell
2020-01-04T15:06:18 < dongs> silabs is fired
2020-01-04T15:06:40 < dongs> so are they actively pulled high before customization or jsut floating?
2020-01-04T15:06:47 < dongs> cuz i dont see you actively pulling the gate up or down
2020-01-04T15:07:26 < qyx> doomba: see Rdson vs Vgs graph in the datasheet
2020-01-04T15:07:32 < qyx> jpa- is about right
2020-01-04T15:08:01 < doomba> qyx: thus the reason it works in my current design is because there's no 10K in series with gates?
2020-01-04T15:08:41 < qyx> it somehow works, the Rdson is high, your current is low, so they have not blown yet
2020-01-04T15:09:29 < qyx> if you switched higher currents, you would probably end with smoke
2020-01-04T15:09:30 < doomba> dongs: afaik they're all open drain with the latch high when the chip is powered/reset
2020-01-04T15:10:28 < dongs> doomba have you tried having a 10k pulldown from gate to gnd
2020-01-04T15:10:30 < dongs> and turning on.
2020-01-04T15:11:02 < dongs>  By default, all of the GPIO pins are configured as a GPIO input. 
2020-01-04T15:11:36 < doomba> as gpio input, this is going to cause the fets to get switched on
2020-01-04T15:11:39 < doomba> you're right
2020-01-04T15:11:44 < doomba> so i might not actually need this RC bullshit
2020-01-04T15:11:49 < dongs> input = floating as far as fet is concerned
2020-01-04T15:12:07 < dongs> if you want it at a known state, pull it up or down as needed.
2020-01-04T15:12:36 < doomba> one thing i did notice is
2020-01-04T15:13:08 < doomba> when using the customization tool, it does this weird partial reset shit when you write new customizations to the chip.
2020-01-04T15:13:26 < doomba> and i wasn't getting the glitch when switching gpios from input to output mode
2020-01-04T15:13:31 < doomba> only when powering up
2020-01-04T15:14:17 < doomba> so that concurs with the input mode = floating = perceived as fets turning on and then off once the customizations get "honored"
2020-01-04T15:14:50 < doomba> it's still retarded that the chip takes that long to apply them.
2020-01-04T15:27:13 < qyx> rsync on imx6, 2.6MB/s, 100% usage
2020-01-04T15:27:18 < qyx> other 3 cores are idle
2020-01-04T15:27:28 < qyx> dumb rsync, not multithreaded
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2020-01-04T15:50:53 < Cracki> does rsync detect moved files yet?
2020-01-04T15:51:15 < Cracki> (i.e. not transfer the contents but notice that they're there but in the wrong place)
2020-01-04T15:51:45 < qyx> idk
2020-01-04T15:52:01 < Cracki> what's the bottleneck? network latency? encryption?
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2020-01-04T16:11:55 < qyx> neither
2020-01-04T16:11:59 < qyx> rsync itself it seems
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2020-01-04T16:12:18 < qyx> ssh takes ~20% of the other core
2020-01-04T16:12:24 < qyx> and network is 1gbe
2020-01-04T16:13:09 < karlp> hashing files probably
2020-01-04T16:13:28 < karlp> you can make it faster with --sizes-only or something, if that's your thing
2020-01-04T16:14:20 < qyx> meh, I'll just let it copy overnight
2020-01-04T16:18:35 < doomba> qyx: updated schematic. shift-refresh
2020-01-04T16:23:32 < qyx> unrelated: re: draftsight
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2020-01-04T16:23:56 < qyx> the linux version disappeared during the december
2020-01-04T16:24:25 < qyx> and other versions prior to 31.12 stopped working
2020-01-04T16:24:43 < qyx> you are even unable to pay for it, because it doesn't exist
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2020-01-04T16:28:47 < Cracki> as in phone home and dead?
2020-01-04T16:29:21 < doomba> this needs more autism. switching terminal block to barrel jacks
2020-01-04T16:29:32 < Cracki> their announcement said there will come somthing web-based
2020-01-04T16:29:50 < qyx> they announced all free versions will cease to run on 31.12
2020-01-04T16:29:50 < Cracki> what are you autiting
2020-01-04T16:29:59 < qyx> only payware remains
2020-01-04T16:30:02 < qyx> subscription based
2020-01-04T16:30:07 < qyx> but then they corrected themselves
2020-01-04T16:30:08 < Cracki> yes, they stopped the "beta"
2020-01-04T16:30:18 < qyx> that only windows version will be payware
2020-01-04T16:30:25 < qyx> and they will provide beta for mac and inux
2020-01-04T16:30:44 < qyx> and not the situation is there is a paid windows version
2020-01-04T16:30:46 < qyx> a free mac beta
2020-01-04T16:30:49 < qyx> and no linux version
2020-01-04T16:30:55 < qyx> *now
2020-01-04T16:31:47 < qyx> they even have it written on the download page that only mac and linux are provided free of charge
2020-01-04T16:31:55 < qyx> as beta
2020-01-04T16:32:04 < qyx> but the actual download is missing
2020-01-04T16:32:31 < Cracki> https://www.scivision.dev/draftsight-cad-software-on-ubuntu/
2020-01-04T16:33:05 < qyx> wat, they PR is fucked
2020-01-04T16:33:14 < qyx> their
2020-01-04T16:34:36 < qyx> I have read Hirsch's blog few days ago saying the same, his post has disappeared
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2020-01-04T16:36:36 < qyx> ok, now they corrected their web, no linux mentioned anymore
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2020-01-04T16:38:44 < qyx> https://twitter.com/DraftSight/status/1212857857240117248
2020-01-04T16:38:48 < qyx> retards
2020-01-04T16:38:58 < Cracki> new month, new year, (more or less) new decade even. maybe people want to get fired. the food place I just went to seems to have just fired someone too. he came from behind the counter and was asked to leave the premises
2020-01-04T16:39:06 < qyx> ok, breathe deeply
2020-01-04T16:39:20 < Cracki> send them a brick
2020-01-04T16:39:29 < Cracki> "draft this, retards!"
2020-01-04T16:40:11 < Cracki> time to patch your executable to skip the license check
2020-01-04T16:42:07 < Cracki> maybe the company is run by pyromaniacs
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2020-01-04T17:23:01 < mawk> oh but it's a dassault product qyx 
2020-01-04T17:23:03 < mawk> you can blame the french
2020-01-04T17:25:50 < qyx> I am blaming myself in the first place
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2020-01-04T17:33:11 < Laurenceb> https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-nottinghamshire-50986594
2020-01-04T17:33:38 < Laurenceb> britbong phenotype
2020-01-04T17:40:32 < qyx> https://i.imgur.com/FPP6Rc9.png
2020-01-04T17:40:39 < qyx> not entirely sure where to fit the minipci-e slot
2020-01-04T17:43:05 < mawk> "When interviewed by police, Naylor said he had no political stance and believed Mr Corbyn was the leader of the Liberal Democrats party."
2020-01-04T17:43:07 < mawk> lol
2020-01-04T17:53:02 < thardin> why would he call the brexit party hq about that instead of labour?
2020-01-04T17:53:38 < mawk> to feel validated
2020-01-04T17:54:33 < thardin> all 👏 brexiteers 👏 are 👏 valid
2020-01-04T17:54:46 < Laurenceb> thardin: ikr
2020-01-04T17:55:48 < thardin> food time
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2020-01-04T18:41:09 < dongs> https://github.com/issus/altium-library opensores
2020-01-04T18:48:35 < zyp> maybe useful
2020-01-04T18:49:45 < antto> "Alumium Cap" hm
2020-01-04T18:49:51 < Thorn> has anyone done ddr3 in 6 layers? do you need 3 planes, leaving only 3 signal layers?
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2020-01-04T18:50:29 < zyp> 6L gives you two planes and four signal layers
2020-01-04T18:50:38 < zyp> each plane can have a signal layer on each side
2020-01-04T18:50:59 < dongs> you can make signal layers out of any plane if you cheat
2020-01-04T18:51:06 < dongs> DDR3 is done on 4L on cheap chinaboards.
2020-01-04T18:51:25 < dongs> VCC/GND inside with DDRVCC or wahtever as islands on VCC layer and routing on top/bottom
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2020-01-04T18:51:37 < dongs> so you definitely dont need 6
2020-01-04T18:52:06 < zyp> depends how much you need to cross the lanes
2020-01-04T18:52:21 < Thorn> so one of the layers will be referenced to vcc, not gnd?
2020-01-04T18:52:22 < zyp> and how hard whatever chip you're using is to fan out
2020-01-04T18:52:32 < zyp> I don't think you wanna do that
2020-01-04T18:52:33 < dongs> well if youre routing with a proper SoC all the shit is gonna be there basically 1:1
2020-01-04T18:52:48 < dongs> in a corner of it or whatever
2020-01-04T18:52:56 < dongs> not some fucking STM32 with SDRAM
2020-01-04T18:53:07 < dongs> wehre shit is all over the chip
2020-01-04T18:53:39 < dongs> Thorn: on 4L it'll be routing gnd vcc routing, what do you mean 'referenced to vcc'
2020-01-04T18:53:49 < dongs> the 'vcc' plane you'd split up into a bunch of shit
2020-01-04T18:57:22 < antto> Thorn, for a n00b like me, this was very useful: https://docs.toradex.com/102492-layout-design-guide.pdf
2020-01-04T18:58:06 < antto> but it's just for general info
2020-01-04T19:01:55 < dongs> good overall info
2020-01-04T19:02:01 < dongs> saved
2020-01-04T19:03:23 < antto> doesn't have DDR3 info, but i found this somehow while looking for info before i made my first 4 layer design, and this document was easy to understand and covered some basic things with visual eggzamples of wrong/right and sh*t
2020-01-04T19:03:55 < antto> it helped much
2020-01-04T19:04:25 < Thorn> well ddr3 has specific requirements
2020-01-04T19:04:55 < dongs> thorn, the proper IRC EE method for DDR3 routing is simply copypaste vendor layout.
2020-01-04T19:04:57 < antto> maybe you don't need this ^, especially if you've already done designs with more than 2 layers
2020-01-04T19:05:16 < dongs> shit, places like allwhiner basically give you SoC + DDR footprint in various configurations (1/2/4 chip etc) and you can just copy it.
2020-01-04T19:05:32 < Thorn> but it will vary with stackup
2020-01-04T19:05:46 < PaulFertser> Any of you guys watching lockpicking videos?
2020-01-04T19:05:57 < srk> a bit
2020-01-04T19:06:01 < antto> i knew a guy who suddenly went into lockpicking
2020-01-04T19:06:06 < antto> and then he vanished from IRC
2020-01-04T19:06:10 < dongs> im watching dongpicking videos
2020-01-04T19:06:18 < antto> eww
2020-01-04T19:06:32 < Cracki> do not insert there
2020-01-04T19:06:33 < PaulFertser> LOL dongs 
2020-01-04T19:06:45 < Cracki> youtube "urethral sounds"
2020-01-04T19:06:51 < antto> uh uh
2020-01-04T19:06:59 < dongs> i'll pass ,cracki
2020-01-04T19:07:11 < Cracki> just look at those freaks
2020-01-04T19:07:30 < antto> i once clicked on a few "massive zit" videos
2020-01-04T19:07:36 < Cracki> pew pew pew
2020-01-04T19:07:46 < Thorn> >Requires clock to be delayed using longer PCB routes by 1.5 ns – 2.0 ns
2020-01-04T19:07:53 < Thorn> wtf that's 20-30 cm?
2020-01-04T19:08:10 < PaulFertser> srk: any specific recommendations?
2020-01-04T19:08:25 < antto> Thorn, pretend ur playing Snake on the nokia
2020-01-04T19:08:49 < Cracki> route it once around the outside, make a nice loop ;)
2020-01-04T19:10:12 < Cracki> 1 picosecond I could understand, that's ~0.3mm...
2020-01-04T19:10:27 < PaulFertser> srk: what I can't yet understand is how those "tubular lock impression tools" work.
2020-01-04T19:13:54 < PaulFertser> srk: and also why so many pin tumbler locks come without any security pins making raking possible. A spool can't cost that much compared to a normal pin, right?
2020-01-04T19:13:54 < srk> PaulFertser: ooh, no idea about that :) I like LockPickingLawyers youtube channel
2020-01-04T19:14:55 < PaulFertser> srk: I like his deadpan humour and that his channel is mostly about educating customers, not the sport.
2020-01-04T19:15:17 < srk> this :D
2020-01-04T19:15:31 < srk> some of the vids are literally explosive when he tries breaking locks with vedges
2020-01-04T19:15:44 < srk> wedges
2020-01-04T19:15:57 < PaulFertser> His videos being short also help with popularity I guess.
2020-01-04T19:17:23 < qyx> Intrapair skew is much more important and requires that the length of the traces within a
2020-01-04T19:17:26 < qyx> differential pair be matched to within 5-mils of one another
2020-01-04T19:17:26 < qyx> lol, ok
2020-01-04T19:17:28 < srk> this one with gallium is fun as well https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jeghGhVdt9s
2020-01-04T19:18:43 < PaulFertser> I found a russian language forum where real thieves share their experience stealing cars. The conversations there are similar to any other forum, with certain "authority figures", telling each other to be polite, "use the search!", "you should train more", "thank you for your help", all that. It's just that their "job" (that's literally how they call it) is a bit odd :)
2020-01-04T19:20:51 < PaulFertser> dongs: I hope you'll find lockpicking more enjoyable than dongs sounding. _Much_ safer and thought-provoking.
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2020-01-04T19:36:54 < Thorn> https://jlcpcb.com/quote/pcbOrderFaq/PCB%20Stackup the bottom one — gnd on layer 2, layer 5 will be power+gnd?
2020-01-04T19:37:41 < Thorn> (and/or use one of the signal layers for power)
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2020-01-04T19:38:44 < Thorn> then I can't even calculate impedances for layer 2 and 4, they don't give dielectric constant for the core
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2020-01-04T19:41:07 < qyx> ghettoing pcie https://i.imgur.com/Azo0N6L.png
2020-01-04T19:42:03 < PaulFertser> So I just watched the latest BosnianBill video on "smart" (Bluetooth or BLE?) lock: https://youtube.com/watch?v=rF0Z97HWhwk . It's amazing how they secured it from most attacks (including rotating magnets to fool the servos) but the one most obvious (at 17:17). That's beyond my understanding.
2020-01-04T19:43:26 < qyx> kicad doesn't do arc tracks
2020-01-04T19:43:29 < qyx> even eagle does
2020-01-04T19:45:14 < Cracki> ppl script their way around it https://forum.kicad.info/t/status-on-curved-smooth-corners-in-traces/12287/2
2020-01-04T19:47:20 < Cracki> hahah someone uses curved board edges + push'n'shove because it respects board edges
2020-01-04T19:47:53 < qyx> not very productive
2020-01-04T19:48:31 < Cracki> milestoned for v6.0 https://bugs.launchpad.net/kicad/+bug/1577958
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2020-01-04T19:57:15 < jadew> there was a dude who implemented rounded corners, but it wasn't merged
2020-01-04T19:57:24 < jadew> he actually implemented a bunch of other stuff too
2020-01-04T19:57:33 < jadew> like teardrops and via fencing IIRC
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2020-01-04T20:35:10 < doomba> time to get rid of those relays
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2020-01-04T20:35:24 < doomba> D2PAK FETs for 2-3A @ 5V ?
2020-01-04T20:36:06 < doomba> with some nice pads with vias for thermal relief?
2020-01-04T20:36:18 < doomba> or will they just run way too hot?
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2020-01-04T20:39:59 < qyx> Cracki: lol https://i.imgur.com/QlSPaMI.png
2020-01-04T20:40:12 < Cracki> magic
2020-01-04T20:40:40 < qyx> using the edge.cuts
2020-01-04T20:40:42 < qyx> and shove
2020-01-04T20:44:44 < zyp> PaulFertser, haha, nice
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2020-01-04T20:53:46 < qyx> lol
2020-01-04T20:54:51 < qyx> ok kicad https://i.imgur.com/Lw4uiSg.png
2020-01-04T20:55:29 < qyx> also the rf traces are too close :S
2020-01-04T21:05:17 < zyp> heh
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2020-01-04T21:54:40 < zyp> «Each power pin should have one .01 µF (or smaller) capacitor to decouple the LAN9512.»
2020-01-04T21:55:12 < zyp> why 10nF or smaller? why not the common 100nF?
2020-01-04T21:55:33 < zyp> it also says 0603 or smaller
2020-01-04T21:56:16 < jadew> it's probably because it has very fast switching edges
2020-01-04T21:57:07 < zyp> my impression was that package size is more important than capacitance though
2020-01-04T21:57:07 < qyx> my gsm module wanted 33nF
2020-01-04T21:57:37 < jadew> zyp, it is, coupled with capacitance
2020-01-04T21:57:41 < qyx> also it has an usb port, that usb port is used for nothing
2020-01-04T21:57:46 < qyx> literally
2020-01-04T21:57:57 < jadew> the serial inductance creates a tank circuit with the capacitance
2020-01-04T21:58:12 < jadew> so they both matter to some degree
2020-01-04T21:58:22 < jadew> 100 nF is huge for high frequency stuff
2020-01-04T21:59:29 < jadew> I guess it's not really a tank circuit
2020-01-04T22:00:13 < jadew> it's LC series, and is what gives the SRF
2020-01-04T22:00:18 < zyp> it's interesting how SMSC doesn't care about ground pins
2020-01-04T22:00:37 < zyp> the only ground both on the USB25* and this LAN9512 is the exposed pad
2020-01-04T22:02:51 < qyx> I would say it is enough if the chip sits on it
2020-01-04T22:03:26 < zyp> yes, it makes total sense, it's just interesting since most other vendors don't seem to be doing that
2020-01-04T22:04:17 < qyx> is it sinful to cross a RF microstrip with a signal line on a 2 layer board
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2020-01-04T22:05:07 < zyp> yes
2020-01-04T22:08:59 < qyx> nah
2020-01-04T22:17:51 < qyx> on pcie, diff pair polarity swap is mandated
2020-01-04T22:18:05 < qyx> is something similar in ethernet?
2020-01-04T22:18:30 < qyx> I found this feature is supported by some PHYs
2020-01-04T22:18:41 < qyx> but cannot find if it is a standard feature or not
2020-01-04T22:18:57 < zyp> I don't think it's standard, but probably common like automdix
2020-01-04T22:27:40 < zyp> https://bin.jvnv.net/file/8ZDm3.png <- poe module is huge
2020-01-04T22:29:49 < qyx> I am doing the IoT gateway router https://i.imgur.com/p7B8ZuI.png
2020-01-04T22:30:42 < zyp> cute
2020-01-04T22:31:00 < qyx> I am curious how different is MT7621 from MT7688
2020-01-04T22:31:15 < qyx> mikrotik uses the 7621
2020-01-04T22:50:01 < doomba> damn son how'd ya get them pcb curvez
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2020-01-04T23:08:10 < karlp> 7688 is way more "little" in every application I've seen, but it might just be no switch on board?
2020-01-04T23:08:33 < karlp> I think 7688 is more like 7620 thouhg,
2020-01-04T23:08:40 < karlp> 7621 has "better" wifi.
2020-01-04T23:08:49 -!- con3 [~kvirc@197.233.41.214] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds]
2020-01-04T23:08:49 < karlp> ie, mt76, not rt28xx
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2020-01-04T23:16:01 < qyx> even the nb-iot simcom module cannot use USB
2020-01-04T23:16:45 < drozdziak1> query cfk
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2020-01-04T23:45:12 < upgrdman> git pros: if i made some changes since my last commit (that i want to keep) but also deleted some files since my last commit (that i want back) ... wtf do i do. i dont want to just reset head, right, since i have some uncommitted changes that I want to preserve.
2020-01-04T23:47:36 < karlp> type "git status"
2020-01-04T23:47:41 < karlp> it will show you what you can do.
2020-01-04T23:47:43 < zyp> just discard the deletions
2020-01-04T23:47:55 < upgrdman> thx
2020-01-04T23:49:10 < karlp> eg: https://zerobin.net/?e9c6032a552ec571#1MABBsnxRw36IEke5fgqlqc8y05+z85HJRi9y2w+SO8=
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2020-01-04T23:51:50 < karlp> "git checkout -p" is nice for interactively saying, "keep this deletion?" etc
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2020-01-04T23:52:16 < karlp> checkout -p is interactively throw out things you've done, add -p is interactively prepare things for commit
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--- Day changed Sun Jan 05 2020
2020-01-05T00:00:19 < qyx> zyp: have you considered rpi zero instead of rpi cm?
2020-01-05T00:00:29 < zyp> no, it's shit
2020-01-05T00:00:42 < qyx> aside of that
2020-01-05T00:00:57 < qyx> no usb on the header though
2020-01-05T00:01:06 < qyx> only on test pads from the bottom
2020-01-05T00:08:20 < karlp> neo core2 lts?
2020-01-05T00:11:28 < zyp> nice, that's cute
2020-01-05T00:16:50 < Steffanx> Is the Allwinner support well nowadays?
2020-01-05T00:20:55 < PaulFertser> Steffanx: I installed plain upstream Debian on orangepi , ethernet and serial worked fine. 
2020-01-05T00:21:26 < PaulFertser> Steffanx: https://linux-sunxi.org/Linux_mainlining_effort more details
2020-01-05T00:21:31 < qyx> karlp: nice
2020-01-05T00:21:40 < qyx> except the pin headers
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2020-01-05T00:27:01 < karlp> not ideal, but... at least you can use the space underneath.
2020-01-05T00:27:13 < karlp> circles and roundabouts
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2020-01-05T00:29:51 < qyx> wtf https://www.friendlyarm.com/image/catalog/description/Core2_en_09.jpg
2020-01-05T00:29:56 < qyx> how did they connect the m.2
2020-01-05T00:32:36 < upgrdman> anyone know of a way to monitor usb throughput in windows 10? like how many Mbps or Gbps a device or hub is transferring?
2020-01-05T00:33:00 < zyp> qyx, usb sata?
2020-01-05T00:33:02 < PaulFertser> qyx: probably USB only?
2020-01-05T00:34:08 < qyx> mhm
2020-01-05T00:34:10 < karlp> you can get that in both a h3 and h5 variant too.
2020-01-05T00:34:23 < karlp> core/core2 if I remember the names properly.
2020-01-05T00:34:36 < qyx> core has the bulky ethernet connector
2020-01-05T00:34:43 < qyx> https://www.friendlyarm.com/index.php?route=product/product&path=69&product_id=225
2020-01-05T00:34:47 < qyx> this one is interesting
2020-01-05T00:35:01 < karlp> no? https://www.friendlyarm.com/index.php?route=product/product&product_id=212
2020-01-05T00:35:09 < karlp> core is just h3.
2020-01-05T00:35:23 < karlp> neo is the "built" one, with usb and ethernet mounted, but "same" size/shape
2020-01-05T00:35:52 < karlp> tc4?! it's $110 and the size of an american house?!
2020-01-05T00:36:21 < qyx> joking
2020-01-05T00:36:44 < qyx> but as a base for the year of linux on desktop
2020-01-05T00:36:48  * karlp laughs
2020-01-05T00:37:14 < zyp> somebody got a pcie obsession
2020-01-05T00:37:22 < qyx> where
2020-01-05T00:37:31 < zyp> there
2020-01-05T00:37:44 < qyx> no, you are all perceiving it incorrectly
2020-01-05T00:37:48 < karlp> starts with q, ends with yx? :)
2020-01-05T00:37:55 < PaulFertser> qyx: JMS567 https://www.friendlyarm.com/image/catalog/description/Core-board_en_02.jpg
2020-01-05T00:38:18 < zyp> figured
2020-01-05T00:38:30 < karlp> here's your iot shit too, http://wiki.friendlyarm.com/wiki/index.php/NanoPi_Duo2_IoT-Box
2020-01-05T00:39:00 < karlp> they have a few other ones, for 3g and 4g shits as well, no fucking clue why they put that sim800 on there, gsm only is such a deadend
2020-01-05T00:39:58 < qyx> thats not my iot shit
2020-01-05T00:40:17 < qyx> I mean I am just adapting it to my form factor
2020-01-05T00:40:36 < karlp> yar, I know. just stirring
2020-01-05T00:40:46 < PaulFertser> "Allwinner H6 has a quirky PCIe controller that doesn't map the PCIe address space properly to CPU, and accessing the PCIe config space, IO space or memory space will need to be wrapped."
2020-01-05T00:40:59 < karlp> duo2 is a nice form factor that might be nice too, it's longer than your onion, but it's a shit load more cpu
2020-01-05T00:41:07 < karlp> PaulFertser: I was only suggesting h3 and h5 parts :)
2020-01-05T00:41:54 < PaulFertser> karlp: indeed, I just find it kinda entertaining that allwinner managed to add PCIe in a way so fucked-up that it's almost useless.
2020-01-05T00:42:41 < qyx> karlp: I am heading for low power and moderate speed, even tried F1C100S
2020-01-05T00:42:47 < qyx> or imx6ULL
2020-01-05T00:42:50 < qyx> or sama5d27
2020-01-05T00:43:45 < qyx> it would be great if there was a table of linux-capable som/sbc/soc orderable by power consumption
2020-01-05T00:43:48  * qyx fires google
2020-01-05T00:44:04 < zyp> linux-capable is a wide term
2020-01-05T00:44:11 < zyp> and power per what?
2020-01-05T00:44:18 < qyx> power per idle!
2020-01-05T00:45:00 < karlp> PaulFertser: I sometimes think some of these statements are just missing documentation thouygh, I'm not always entirely convinced it's "oh yeah, the silicon's busted"
2020-01-05T00:45:42 < karlp> if you are comparing with f1c100s, you're back into mt7688 territory I guess.
2020-01-05T00:46:00 < karlp> are they really any lower power though?
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2020-01-05T00:46:21 < PaulFertser> karlp: if their own "BSP" kernel has all the "supported" drivers for individual PCIe devices "modded" one'd guess it's likely to really require that.
2020-01-05T00:46:41 < karlp> PaulFertser: not really, I think it's poor internal team comms
2020-01-05T00:47:03 < karlp> thhere was a massive usb speed boost a little while ago based on a missing doc. vendor bsp was also bad.
2020-01-05T00:47:26 < karlp> but sure, fuckups happen.
2020-01-05T00:47:53 < karlp> I've certainly not looked at it personally, just know that there's so much out there of, "I did x, therefore y, and therefore z is wrong"
2020-01-05T00:48:06 < qyx> f1c100s is about 250mW
2020-01-05T00:49:03 < PaulFertser> karlp: btw, are any of those allwinner SoCs rated for industrial temperature range?
2020-01-05T00:49:13 < karlp> probably the R series
2020-01-05T00:50:01  * karlp shrugs
2020-01-05T00:50:09 < karlp> industrial temp is such a fun term.
2020-01-05T00:50:18 < karlp> saw some neat shit the other week actyually,
2020-01-05T00:50:20 < karlp> finnish russian
2020-01-05T00:50:26 < karlp> hrm. what were they called.
2020-01-05T00:50:59 < doomba> karlp: so i'm thinking about just putting all of these cp2108's on the same pcb. there would be 3 of them. the reason i don't simply want to upgrayyd to a cp2012 or whatever with more UARTs is because 1. i'm comfortable with the cp2108 and can simply scale the working design and 2. i have a known good kernel patch for the cp2108 gpios - but i don't think one exists for cp2012.
2020-01-05T00:51:23 < karlp> will try and find it, but basically, were doing what we do, measuring things in the electrical panel, _explicitly_ because by measuring industrial machinery from the electrical panel instead of on the machine, they could avoid all that yucky heat/corrosive/explosive environment.
2020-01-05T00:51:39 < karlp> was a company specializing in monitoring hot metal pipe production and shit.
2020-01-05T00:53:49 < karlp> doomba: not sure I follow. 
2020-01-05T00:54:01 < karlp> 2012 doesn't exist, 2102 is a single uart?
2020-01-05T00:54:19 < doomba> ah yeah 2102. wait nevermind.
2020-01-05T00:54:28 < doomba> i keep thinging there's a bigger one than 4 uarts
2020-01-05T00:54:33 < doomba> maybe there is.
2020-01-05T00:55:52 < karlp> not that I'm aware of.
2020-01-05T00:55:59 < doomba> i'll take a look
2020-01-05T00:56:02 < doomba> maybe not from silabs
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2020-01-05T00:58:44 < doomba> nope just quads
2020-01-05T01:00:52 < karlp> I've not heeard of one from anyone
2020-01-05T01:01:26 < karlp> you need 2 endpoints for each one for anything rational,
2020-01-05T01:01:43 < karlp> not a lot of hardware out there with more than 8 endpoints available
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2020-01-05T01:03:19 < zyp> eh
2020-01-05T01:03:25 < zyp> you mean one in/out pair for each
2020-01-05T01:03:46 < zyp> plenty of devices has more than four pairs, in addition to control
2020-01-05T01:04:24 < karlp> maybe, a couple of the f4s have it, only on the hs ports iirc.
2020-01-05T01:04:34 < karlp> still, I've never seen a >4 usb2uart ic 
2020-01-05T01:05:21 < zyp> st_usbfs can do control plus 7 pairs as long as there's enough buffer mem
2020-01-05T01:05:32 < invzim> anyone use partsbox.io?  I created an account last night, and even though the pro features would be nice - the free one is most useful
2020-01-05T01:07:06 < catphish> that partsbox thing looks quite cool
2020-01-05T01:07:49 < catphish> though i'm not totally sure why i'd ever use it
2020-01-05T01:08:31 < invzim> to check if you got the parts you need :)
2020-01-05T01:09:12 < invzim> for a prototype of a new rev of a board you made 2 years ago :)
2020-01-05T01:11:40 < zyp> IME it's more convenient to just buy what you need when you need it
2020-01-05T01:11:53 < qyx> there are leftovers
2020-01-05T01:11:55 < zyp> except for reels of 100nF and other super common shit
2020-01-05T01:12:36 < mawk> or start a parallel business of being a parts supplier
2020-01-05T01:12:42 < zyp> leftover cut tape is not worth the time you'd have to spend organizing it if you wanna find it again when you need it
2020-01-05T01:15:56 < qyx> you will go to gulag for not saving the resources
2020-01-05T01:19:20 < invzim> I like to have leftovers for repairs and swap out stuff
2020-01-05T01:19:58 < zyp> I have a box of leftovers too, I just don't bother organizing it
2020-01-05T01:20:30 < invzim> I (used to) do small batch stuff, which I guess is the reason I have a few parts
2020-01-05T01:20:49 < invzim> with a kid in the house - no chance, proto -> assembly house
2020-01-05T01:21:30 < zyp> pff
2020-01-05T01:21:31 < zyp> https://github.com/karlp/zypsnips/blob/master/children.txt
2020-01-05T01:22:25 < invzim> :)
2020-01-05T01:22:37 < qyx> :D
2020-01-05T01:27:40 < karlp> all mine have managed (so far?) is going, "oooh shiny light" and pushing the buttons on the computer and the power strips around the house
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2020-01-05T01:51:23 < scrts> so I've decided to give a chance for STM32CubeIDE
2020-01-05T01:51:28 < scrts> but it comes with 0 examples?
2020-01-05T01:51:29 < scrts> :)
2020-01-05T01:55:37 < specing> scrts: ask Jan on ##electronics about it, she is an expert on the cube IDE
2020-01-05T01:55:47 < karlp> scrts: wat?
2020-01-05T01:56:05 < karlp> cp2102n has support for notifying battery charging chips about available current. cute.
2020-01-05T01:56:14 < scrts> karlp: not sure... I am not used to Eclipse, I guess?
2020-01-05T01:56:21 < scrts> but seems like 0 examples
2020-01-05T01:56:25 < doomba> karlp: why the hell ...
2020-01-05T01:56:28 < scrts> I can generate project with Cube stuff
2020-01-05T01:56:35 < scrts> select peripherals, etc..
2020-01-05T01:57:14 < doomba> i wonder what application battery charging chips notification in cp2102n is for
2020-01-05T01:58:57 < qyx> uhm, the default one?
2020-01-05T01:59:13 < qyx> mcu connected to an usb with an usb-serial bridge
2020-01-05T01:59:17 < qyx> charging its battery
2020-01-05T01:59:48 < qyx> the MCU would not know as it sees only the serial port
2020-01-05T01:59:57 < qyx> how would you charge its battery from usb?
2020-01-05T02:02:33 < karlp> scrts: the cube manual downloads normally contain a shitton of examples,
2020-01-05T02:02:38 < karlp> cubeide does too, 
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2020-01-05T02:03:02 < jadew> is "sporting" too informal for a technical description?
2020-01-05T02:03:04 < scrts> lemme see
2020-01-05T02:03:30 < feliwir> Hey, i'm trying to get a GPS module working on stm32 l4, but with no success so far
2020-01-05T02:03:41 < feliwir> I only get garbage through SPI
2020-01-05T02:03:50 < feliwir> any ideas?
2020-01-05T02:04:40 < feliwir> https://github.com/Tarcontar/pidrone/blob/master/src/bee/io/sensors.cpp#L375
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2020-01-05T02:13:50 < qyx> did you scope the signals?
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2020-01-05T02:15:34 < qyx> wait what are you reading from the GPS byte by byte and expecting strings coming out?
2020-01-05T02:15:38 < qyx> does the GPS work that way?
2020-01-05T02:16:04 < feliwir> I don't expect strings :) I feed my NMEA library with bytes
2020-01-05T02:16:12 < feliwir> which tells me when a sentence is complete
2020-01-05T02:16:12 < qyx> where from
2020-01-05T02:16:32 < feliwir> The bytes should come from the GPS module
2020-01-05T02:16:42 < qyx> yes, but over SPI? without any protocol?
2020-01-05T02:16:52 < feliwir> SPI, yes
2020-01-05T02:16:55 < qyx> is there some FIFO which is read?
2020-01-05T02:17:08 < feliwir> there's no protocoll according to the datasheet
2020-01-05T02:17:26 < qyx> which gps model,
2020-01-05T02:17:34 < feliwir> ORG1510
2020-01-05T02:17:37 < qyx> uhm
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2020-01-05T02:17:46 < feliwir> I had it working before with an Arduino
2020-01-05T02:18:02 < feliwir> But SPI setup is much more painful for stm32 :D
2020-01-05T02:19:28 < Jak_o_Shadows> Setup in general is annoying. But once it is, it's great
2020-01-05T02:19:57 < qyx> looks weird
2020-01-05T02:20:09 < qyx> ok, did you scope the signals?
2020-01-05T02:20:12 < feliwir> yes
2020-01-05T02:20:17 < qyx> and what did you see
2020-01-05T02:20:46 < feliwir> let me take a look again
2020-01-05T02:21:18 < qyx> generally you have to pay attention to the SPI mode
2020-01-05T02:21:28 < qyx> on L4, it depends if you read 8bits or 16bits
2020-01-05T02:21:37 < qyx> you also have to setup SPI fifo threshold
2020-01-05T02:21:45 < feliwir> I did set everything to 8bit
2020-01-05T02:21:54 < feliwir> and SPI mode is 1, as explained in the datasheet
2020-01-05T02:22:15 < feliwir> the module works up to 6.8Mhz and i'm at 80Mhz/256
2020-01-05T02:22:55 < qyx> also spi_xfer is using spi_write and spi_read instead of spi_write8 and spi_read8
2020-01-05T02:23:08 < qyx> which doesn't work on L4
2020-01-05T02:24:31 < feliwir> i use it a few lines above, where it works fine
2020-01-05T02:24:49 < feliwir> having set `spi_set_data_size`
2020-01-05T02:25:15 < qyx> it does not
2020-01-05T02:25:32 < feliwir> so i should use `read8`?
2020-01-05T02:25:34 < qyx> ok, how many clock cycles are you seeing?
2020-01-05T02:25:56 < karlp> "someone" should really fix that spi-v2 xfer shitpile
2020-01-05T02:26:14 < karlp> it's almost like I built hardware and started writing test code explicitly for spi shitssss
2020-01-05T02:26:44 < qyx> https://privatebin.net/?cf49dc06c1b3190a#2bKeWnpXxTaBiCGtwD4yi9jJepw2pqiqxngzhKWHCeNC
2020-01-05T02:26:47 < qyx> feliwir: ^
2020-01-05T02:27:03 < feliwir> karlp, aren't you the opencm3 author? :D
2020-01-05T02:27:16 < qyx> karlp: I may do a PR.. once
2020-01-05T02:28:15 < qyx> feliwir: change to spi_send8(.., 0); byte = spi_read8(...)
2020-01-05T02:28:32 < feliwir> yup, trying right now
2020-01-05T02:28:41 < feliwir> what about software slave management?
2020-01-05T02:28:44 < qyx> but check if it is really the problem
2020-01-05T02:28:58 < feliwir> People always tell me to use it, but it makes no difference here
2020-01-05T02:29:56 < qyx> https://privatebin.net/?072a5f81b8580d2e#AECNjJgfHWnRfKzfaFHyNWcJ2XMbpuAzMADvZTMcgF73
2020-01-05T02:29:59 < qyx> this works for me
2020-01-05T02:30:24 < feliwir> I keep getting 0's and i's now
2020-01-05T02:32:09 < feliwir> Well, div2 won't work for me
2020-01-05T02:32:16 < feliwir> because it's faster than the spec then
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2020-01-05T02:32:44 < qyx> yeah, I was running that particular L4 on 4MHz
2020-01-05T02:33:17 < qyx> try the phase/polarity settings
2020-01-05T02:33:52 < feliwir> Doesn't `spi_set_standard_mode(SPI, 1);` already do that?
2020-01-05T02:34:12 < feliwir> Because 0,0 is wrong for my device
2020-01-05T02:34:16 < feliwir> i need 0,1
2020-01-05T02:36:09 < qyx> idk, I have never used that function
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2020-01-05T02:40:46 < feliwir> everything takes a bit longer here, since i compile with a pi zero w
2020-01-05T02:40:56 < feliwir> and then deploy to my STM32 through GPIO
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2020-01-05T02:44:50 < karlp> feliwir: sorry, I've been doing ocm3 stuff all night, sitting down with a beer and some nibbles and a videogame for the rest of the night I'm afraid.
2020-01-05T02:45:15 < feliwir> alright, will probably do some other project aswell then
2020-01-05T02:45:18 < feliwir> cuz i'm stuck
2020-01-05T02:57:12 < feliwir> @qyx, the output i get always alternatives between two different byte values
2020-01-05T02:57:24 < feliwir> any idea what the reason could be?
2020-01-05T02:57:58 < qyx> uhm
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2020-01-05T02:58:03 < qyx> wchich values
2020-01-05T02:58:44 < Thorn> jlcpcb did have an 8 layer offer if I remember correctly?
2020-01-05T02:58:56 < Thorn> they don't any more
2020-01-05T02:59:19 < qyx> feliwir: not 0xA7 0xB4 by any chance?
2020-01-05T02:59:35 < feliwir> you mean the idle values?
2020-01-05T02:59:44 < qyx> yes
2020-01-05T02:59:57 < feliwir> Checking that now. The only issue is that the values change on each restart :D
2020-01-05T03:00:14 < qyx> sync lost maybe?
2020-01-05T03:00:38 < feliwir> I wrote with an OriginGPS employee before and the told me the following
2020-01-05T03:00:43 < feliwir> `In order to use SPI interface for ORG1411 – you should leave CTS and RTS pads floating while starting up the module.`
2020-01-05T03:00:50 < feliwir> But no idea on how to do that
2020-01-05T03:00:58 < qyx> are you toggling CS at the beginning?
2020-01-05T03:00:59 < feliwir> I doubt i leave them floating
2020-01-05T03:01:06 < feliwir> Yeah
2020-01-05T03:01:48 < qyx> configure the gpio to input, no pull
2020-01-05T03:01:52 < qyx> wait until your module starts
2020-01-05T03:01:57 < qyx> and then reconfigure as needed
2020-01-05T03:02:18 < qyx> float means they are not actively driven, either low or high
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2020-01-05T03:03:56 < feliwir> How do i know my module started?
2020-01-05T03:04:33 < qyx> your datasheet tells you to wait 1s
2020-01-05T03:04:37 < qyx> because you don't know
2020-01-05T03:04:40 < feliwir> By changing to input and removing the gpio_set i get tons of `0` 
2020-01-05T03:04:44 < feliwir> I already wait 3s
2020-01-05T03:05:10 < qyx> 17.4 DATA INTERFACE
2020-01-05T03:06:09 < qyx> so if you keep them floating, internal pull-up and pull-down select the SPI interface
2020-01-05T03:07:00 < qyx> also the outputs are 1V8
2020-01-05T03:07:17 < feliwir> Everything is on 3.3V on my PCB
2020-01-05T03:07:39 < qyx> no level translation?
2020-01-05T03:08:01 < feliwir> No
2020-01-05T03:08:15 < feliwir> I got the ORG1411 version that works with that
2020-01-05T03:09:38 < feliwir> qyx, https://github.com/Tarcontar/pidrone/blob/master/src/bee/io/sensors.cpp#L67
2020-01-05T03:09:45 < feliwir> so that's a correct floating setup?
2020-01-05T03:09:52 < qyx> it should be
2020-01-05T03:09:56 < qyx> but you may be out of luck
2020-01-05T03:10:11 < qyx> stm32 requires V_IH minimal of 0.7*VDD
2020-01-05T03:10:24 < qyx> which is 2.31V to detect high
2020-01-05T03:10:44 < feliwir> so where's the issue? :D
2020-01-05T03:10:44 < qyx> your 1.8V output is not going to be read as 1
2020-01-05T03:10:57 < feliwir> Where do i have a 1.8V output?
2020-01-05T03:11:04 < qyx> your GPS has 1V8 output
2020-01-05T03:11:13 < qyx> Output is LVCMOS 1.8V compatible. Inputs are tolerable up to 3.6V.
2020-01-05T03:12:41 < qyx> how did you manage to get it working without any level translation?
2020-01-05T03:13:19 < feliwir> I had an ATmega before
2020-01-05T03:13:23 < feliwir> and that worked
2020-01-05T03:14:06 < feliwir> I have the `1411-PM04` i'm not sure if it has a higher output
2020-01-05T03:14:54 < qyx> atmega run on 3V3 too?
2020-01-05T03:15:28 < feliwir> yes
2020-01-05T03:16:08 < qyx> check with the scope if the MISO line is toggling between 0 and 1
2020-01-05T03:16:14 < qyx> if yes
2020-01-05T03:16:29 < qyx> reconfigure the MISO as a normaln GPIO
2020-01-05T03:16:36 < qyx> and try to sample it in a loop
2020-01-05T03:16:47 < qyx> to see if the MCU detects occasional level changes
2020-01-05T03:17:00 < qyx> if yes, your SPI config is still bad
2020-01-05T03:17:14 < qyx> if no, your gpio test setup may be wrong
2020-01-05T03:17:36 < qyx> in this case, try the same with some other pin with proper 3V3 level
2020-01-05T03:17:41 < feliwir> Alright, will test
2020-01-05T03:17:50 < qyx> if it reads as 0, your gpio test setup is wrong
2020-01-05T03:18:06 < qyx> if it reads as 1 and your GPS output (MISO) is read as 0
2020-01-05T03:18:23 < qyx> you have hardware problem (improper voltage level for High)
2020-01-05T03:19:17 < qyx> also, this would be a super dumb mistake
2020-01-05T03:27:10 < feliwir> i'm used to order new PCBs
2020-01-05T03:27:16 < feliwir> when i fucked up :D
2020-01-05T03:28:09 < feliwir> but i already saw GPS data on my stm32
2020-01-05T03:28:19 < feliwir> it was malformed and completly random
2020-01-05T03:28:26 < feliwir> worked like once for 100 tries
2020-01-05T03:28:52 < feliwir> currently testing with the logic level analyzer
2020-01-05T03:31:49 < feliwir> need to solder first the debug pins :-/
2020-01-05T03:32:05 < feliwir> will probably not do that before morning
2020-01-05T03:34:49 < qyx> idk, I may be wrong
2020-01-05T03:39:34 < feliwir> printing the bytes as integer now
2020-01-05T03:39:38 < feliwir> to see if it's the idle pattern
2020-01-05T03:40:15 < feliwir> hm, it's 0
2020-01-05T04:08:47 < Thorn> has anyone heard anything about https://www.wellpcb.com/ ?
2020-01-05T04:10:51 < dongs> lol thorn why would $randomchinkplace be any d ifferent from any other
2020-01-05T04:11:00 < dongs> its all fucking same shit
2020-01-05T04:11:09 < Thorn> multilayer prices are different
2020-01-05T04:11:17 < dongs> i bet if you could brokebitch enough, you could just take advantage of "new user free pcb" offer at every new chink PCB startup
2020-01-05T04:11:20 < dongs> and never pay for pcb again
2020-01-05T04:12:06 < Thorn> I doubt they will offer a 8 layer pcb for free lol
2020-01-05T04:12:27 < dongs> another place that doesnt do SF to japan
2020-01-05T04:15:17 < qyx> ok, nearly finished https://i.imgur.com/lRrJQnj.png
2020-01-05T04:15:21 < qyx> I started 12h ago
2020-01-05T04:16:07 < scrts> SDR thingie?
2020-01-05T04:17:00 < qyx> no, linux + minipcie wireless/lte + onboard nb-iot + ble
2020-01-05T04:21:56 < dongs> nbg-iot is that some lora tarsh
2020-01-05T04:22:44 < qyx> no, LTE cat NB1/NB2
2020-01-05T04:40:02 < jadew> so... my constant disappointment in connectors, lead to this: https://cojotech.com/media/datasheets/SMA-M-BNC-BF-F405-20%20-%20Datasheet.pdf
2020-01-05T04:41:31 < englishman> cool, tesla semi going to have 1.2MWh pack, at $180k that's $150/kWh including the truck
2020-01-05T04:42:09 < englishman> hehe insertion gain
2020-01-05T04:42:50 < jadew> heh, yeah, it feels more naturally to display it like that
2020-01-05T04:43:22 < doomba> qyx: wait so like..
2020-01-05T04:43:34 < doomba> you're putting an omega2s inside your laptop or something?
2020-01-05T04:46:23 < jadew> the not really unique, but rare quality of that cable, is that it's really good up to 6 GHz, while normal BNC connectors are usually only rated to 4 GHz
2020-01-05T04:47:22 < jadew> and can be successfully used to 8 GHz, with just ~1 dB of insertion loss, which is really good for BNC
2020-01-05T04:53:29 < specing> jadew: I was told they are only good up to one GHz
2020-01-05T04:53:37 < jadew> specing, you were lied to
2020-01-05T04:54:14 < jadew> if you're mixing them with cheap one, yeah, you can't expect more
2020-01-05T04:54:24 < jadew> but if you use quality connectors, 4 GHz is common
2020-01-05T04:54:38 < specing> jadew: but quality has to be paid for
2020-01-05T04:54:48 < specing> and at that point there are better connectors to choose from
2020-01-05T04:54:54 < jadew> yeah, but at 1 GHz, we're talking china trash
2020-01-05T04:55:12 < jadew> BNC connectors are practical
2020-01-05T04:55:18 < jadew> it's not just about the frequency
2020-01-05T04:55:29 < jadew> they're easy to connect and disconnect
2020-01-05T04:55:52 < BrainDamage> there's also mating cycle count
2020-01-05T04:55:57 < jadew> also, they have more mating cycles
2020-01-05T04:56:00 < jadew> yeah
2020-01-05T04:56:04 < BrainDamage> for instance for sma it's 1k only with a torque wrench
2020-01-05T04:56:32 < BrainDamage> and a couple hundred for say, a oscope is not that absurd to imagine
2020-01-05T04:56:34 < jadew> I think you can go higher on steel ones tho
2020-01-05T05:02:28 < jadew> also this, but this is not as impressive, just a decent cable: https://cojotech.com/media/datasheets/SMA-M-X2-F405-20%20-%20Datasheet.pdf
2020-01-05T05:06:19 < jadew> I think for the mating cycles on SMA, the most important thing is the center contact material
2020-01-05T05:07:01 < jadew> then the body material, because it controls how deep the mating goes
2020-01-05T05:07:31 < jadew> and I don't think the coupling nut has much to do with it
2020-01-05T05:08:04 < jadew> as long as it still makes good electrical contact, it doesn't matter much
2020-01-05T05:08:24 < jadew> probably the coating on it matters more than the material
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2020-01-05T05:36:05 < Spirit532> I have a really weird issue
2020-01-05T05:36:40 < Spirit532> When I flash my firmware through the st-link to the STSPIN32F0A(stm32f031k inside), the st-link resets the chip and the firmware works fine
2020-01-05T05:37:24 < Spirit532> But when I disconnect the st-link, turn the device off, then turn it back on, I'm seeing REALLY weird behavior
2020-01-05T05:37:57 < Spirit532> It seems like the code... works(????) but for some reason it only works *correctly* when flashed via stlink and openocd 
2020-01-05T05:41:55 < Spirit532> and it's this particular bit of code, totally irrelevant math, that breaks
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2020-01-05T06:43:07 < dongs> d o n g s
2020-01-05T06:43:26 < jadew> morning dongs
2020-01-05T06:45:48 < dongs> Thorn: so how does that compare to uh other places for 64-6L
2020-01-05T06:45:54 < dongs> lets see allpcb
2020-01-05T06:58:08 < dongs> hm much more
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2020-01-05T07:17:39 < jadew> any ideas what the warranty law says about components in the EU?
2020-01-05T07:18:17 < jadew> say I sell you a screw
2020-01-05T07:18:48 < jadew> how is warranty handled and in which cases?
2020-01-05T07:22:27 < BrainDamage> https://europa.eu/youreurope/business/dealing-with-customers/consumer-contracts-guarantees/consumer-guarantees/index_en.htm
2020-01-05T07:22:40 < BrainDamage> they have a free course, you might want to subscribe
2020-01-05T07:23:19 < jadew> thanks
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2020-01-05T07:23:27 < jadew> where's the link for the course, I can't see it on the first glance
2020-01-05T07:23:55 < BrainDamage> mid bottom
2020-01-05T07:24:18 < BrainDamage> Consumer Law Ready is an EU-wide programme, offering free training courses in consumer law for micro businesses and SMEs. You can apply to attend a training course in your country to ensure that your SME is Consumer Law Ready.
2020-01-05T07:24:24 < jadew> yep, found it
2020-01-05T07:24:27 < jadew> thanks
2020-01-05T07:25:30 < jadew> "wasn't installed correctly - either by you, or by the customer, due to shortcomings in the instructions"
2020-01-05T07:25:33 < jadew> that's a nice one
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2020-01-05T10:50:50 < srk> heh https://www.rtl-sdr.com/xync-a-massive-mimo-sdr-with-up-to-32x32-tx-rx-channels/
2020-01-05T10:50:53 < srk> :D
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2020-01-05T11:59:37 < BrainDamage> https://2eu.funnyjunk.com/hdgifs/I+see+what+you+did+there+hooman_03b418_7476503.mp4
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2020-01-05T12:29:27 < PaulFertser> Spirit532: powering off resets the SRAM
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2020-01-05T14:34:09 < dongs> Of China’s 21 DFH-4-based satellites, two have suffered solar array issues — the Nigerian communication satellite NigComSat-1 in 2008 and SinoSat-2 in 2006 — leading to their failures. 
2020-01-05T14:40:02 < specing> lol fail
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2020-01-05T14:49:35 < qyx> nigerian china satellites?
2020-01-05T14:52:20 < qyx> someone posted 68-car accident in usa recently
2020-01-05T14:52:28 < qyx> today we had a 17-car one
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2020-01-05T14:54:15 < Steffanx> snow? mist?
2020-01-05T14:54:17 < Steffanx> ice?
2020-01-05T14:54:23 < Steffanx> or just out of the blue?
2020-01-05T14:55:43 < qyx> https://t.aimg.sk/magaziny/4ul822nkTYb01X9w3t7JnQ~N-sledky-hromadnej-nehody-na-dia-nici-D1-pred-Popradom-5-janu-ra-2020.jpg?t=L2ZpdC1pbi84MDB4MA&h=pJjeCS-j5WDlrgBHJso9Sw&e=2145916800&v=2
2020-01-05T14:56:17 < Cracki> I love to watch prague trams vs. insane car drivers and pedestrians
2020-01-05T14:56:29 < qyx> zivot tramvajaka series?
2020-01-05T14:56:40 < Cracki> don't speak the language, probably
2020-01-05T14:56:52 < Cracki> the one who knows how to do a proper time lapse effect
2020-01-05T14:57:05 < qyx> I have seen some
2020-01-05T14:57:13 < qyx> but don't remember the effects
2020-01-05T14:57:30 < Cracki> key ingredient is blending of several frames to simulate long exposure time
2020-01-05T14:58:27 < Cracki> I think several tram operators film their days
2020-01-05T14:58:46 < Cracki> they all pass similar stations/landmarks tho
2020-01-05T14:59:28 < Cracki> in some austrialian place they have trams that seem limited to nearly walking speed
2020-01-05T14:59:42 < Cracki> new ones that could do 50+ km/h
2020-01-05T15:00:21 < Cracki> all because people are shit at driving
2020-01-05T15:01:49 < qyx> we have them hard limited to 65km/h in .sk iirc 
2020-01-05T15:02:07 < qyx> but somewhere I read they are capable of going 90
2020-01-05T15:02:19 < Cracki> murica murica murica ... NL... murica murica murica https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Multiple-vehicle_collision#Major_pileups
2020-01-05T15:03:12 < Cracki> the mistake they made with that one australian system was track shared with road
2020-01-05T15:03:21 < Cracki> that and shit signals
2020-01-05T15:04:07 < qyx> we have both :>
2020-01-05T15:04:43 < Cracki> all the hotspots in those prague videos lack road markings and signals... also those videos should be forwarded to police for immediate tickets to those drivers
2020-01-05T15:05:07 < qyx> https://imhd.sk/ba/popis-typu-vozidla/740/Skoda-30T-ForCity-Plus
2020-01-05T15:08:34 < Cracki> 8 ppl/sq. m....
2020-01-05T15:08:40 < Cracki> that's 50x25 cm per torso
2020-01-05T15:09:08 < Cracki> that number was used elsewhere to calculate capacity too... but in trams you can expect people to stay calm and in place...
2020-01-05T15:14:25 < qyx> heh
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2020-01-05T15:17:50 < Steffanx> Welcome Sadale. Hows the kong nowadays?
2020-01-05T15:19:08 < Sadale> Steffanx, not as bad as it's protrayed in the media. Still livable for now.
2020-01-05T15:19:21 < Sadale> Hopefully this protest crap would end soon. It's annoying :(
2020-01-05T15:19:34 < Steffanx> its actually a bit quiet in the media now.
2020-01-05T15:19:51 < Steffanx> Its mainly trump and the fires in aussieland now.
2020-01-05T15:20:55 < Steffanx> When will we be able to do a live version of your paper rock scissors game?
2020-01-05T15:23:34 < qyx> is jly ok?
2020-01-05T15:23:53 < PaulFertser> Steffanx: and Iraq/Iran situation
2020-01-05T15:24:16 < PaulFertser> Sadale: isn't this crap necessary for you to evade China?
2020-01-05T15:24:34 < Steffanx> PaulFertser: Yeah, but isnt that mainly Trump? 
2020-01-05T15:24:54 < Steffanx> qyx: do you know?
2020-01-05T15:25:53 < Steffanx> qyx: You actually made me laugh, because this "is [insert nick] ok?"  is some terrible inside joke between stvn/jly and me.
2020-01-05T15:25:56 < Sadale> PaulFertser, I've never said that I want to evade China in the first place. In fact, Hong Kong is a part of China.
2020-01-05T15:26:00 < PaulFertser> Steffanx: for a very shallow mass media, probably. But those who care provide much more context and so specific person working as the US president right atm becomes not so important.
2020-01-05T15:28:24 < qyx> Steffanx: I just expressed a concern the fire is not hitting him
2020-01-05T15:29:17 < qyx> ok, I will not use inside jokes fromt he outside anymore
2020-01-05T15:29:27 < karlp> peterm is in w vic iirc, and isn't jly in melbourne itself?
2020-01-05T15:31:39 < Steffanx> idk about peterm but.. i guess
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2020-01-05T16:02:34 < feliwir> Hey :)
2020-01-05T16:02:49 < feliwir> qyx, checking with the logic level analyzer now
2020-01-05T16:17:45 < feliwir> our MOSI is not sending anythinbg
2020-01-05T16:19:03 < feliwir> https://imgur.com/a/2wHVtCK
2020-01-05T16:19:13 < feliwir> 0 is the clock, and 2 the MISO
2020-01-05T16:22:14 < feliwir> and 1 the not functional MOSI
2020-01-05T16:29:15 < feliwir> karlp, do you maybe have an idea why my MOSI is low?
2020-01-05T16:35:11 < Steffanx> Are you usre 0 is the clock?
2020-01-05T16:35:51 < feliwir> yes
2020-01-05T16:36:36 < qyx> you are using DIV256?
2020-01-05T16:36:46 < qyx> whats your SPI clock then
2020-01-05T16:37:01 < Steffanx> It looks more like a chip select.
2020-01-05T16:37:31 < qyx> feliwir: your MOSI is 0, which is expected as you are sending zeroes
2020-01-05T16:37:46 < qyx> your MISO (2) is your GPS sending some data back
2020-01-05T16:37:53 < feliwir> qyx, we use DIV256, yes
2020-01-05T16:38:15 < feliwir> my MOSI is 0, just double checked
2020-01-05T16:38:18 < feliwir> *1
2020-01-05T16:38:24 < feliwir> Not 0
2020-01-05T16:38:25 < qyx> or 0 is the clock and 1 is MOSI
2020-01-05T16:38:30 < feliwir> yes, exactly
2020-01-05T16:38:31 < qyx> the same applies
2020-01-05T16:38:35 < qyx> MOSI has to be zero
2020-01-05T16:38:47 < qyx> because you are doing send8
2020-01-05T16:38:53 < feliwir> what's not working then?
2020-01-05T16:39:11 < feliwir> 80Mhz/256 is my SPI clock
2020-01-05T16:40:05 < qyx> imho it works but your saleae doesn't capture clock properly somehow
2020-01-05T16:40:25 < qyx> or whatever
2020-01-05T16:40:31 < qyx> but you are sending 0 and seeing 0
2020-01-05T16:40:37 < feliwir> well i don't read data back correctly aswell
2020-01-05T16:40:39 < qyx> you are receiving <something> and seeing 0
2020-01-05T16:41:12 < feliwir> I see more than 0 on MISO or not?
2020-01-05T16:43:00 < feliwir> okay i just fixed some stuff it seems like
2020-01-05T16:43:28 < feliwir> But the MISO is not in sync with MOSI and CLOCK
2020-01-05T16:43:32 < feliwir> It's much slower
2020-01-05T16:44:10 < feliwir> https://imgur.com/OS2GCeX
2020-01-05T16:45:01 < feliwir> The GPS supports up to 6.8Mhz, and i'm below that in theory
2020-01-05T16:45:47 < qyx> I would check first if your LA captures signals correctly
2020-01-05T16:45:55 < qyx> those glitches are unusual
2020-01-05T16:46:37 < feliwir> how to check that? :D
2020-01-05T16:47:40 < qyx> because it is clear your modules sends something
2020-01-05T16:47:51 < qyx> it would not send anything if there is no proper clock
2020-01-05T16:48:06 < Steffanx> No scope in the house feliwir?
2020-01-05T16:48:09 < qyx> and on your capture there is no signal resembling clock
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2020-01-05T16:48:29 < feliwir> @Steffanx, no, i'm level noob :D
2020-01-05T16:48:33 < Steffanx> aha
2020-01-05T16:48:40 < rneese> morning
2020-01-05T16:48:46 < qyx> try to increase your LA sampling freq if possible
2020-01-05T16:48:57 < rneese> happy late new years to you all
2020-01-05T16:48:59 < qyx> but 2M should be enough
2020-01-05T16:49:50 < Steffanx> You can always try to toggle the clock manually (as in toggle the pin manually) and see if it can capture that.
2020-01-05T16:50:03 < Steffanx> if its fine there it kinda rules out LA issues
2020-01-05T16:50:48 < feliwir> are the glitches maybe due to a wrong clock phase & polarity?
2020-01-05T16:51:26 < Steffanx> unlikely. i expect the clock to be pretty much a squarewave
2020-01-05T16:52:17 < qyx> it is pretty hard to generate a non 50/50 square clock by the SPI peripheral
2020-01-05T16:52:22 < qyx> actually idk if it is even possible
2020-01-05T16:53:02 < feliwir> i did it though :-/
2020-01-05T16:53:07 < doomba> https://logbook.pw/usbhub.pdf - still trying to "guesstimate" on these OVR!n lines. The datasheet says in gang mode (GANG pulled up with at least 100K) only OVR!1 is used. They're inputs, so I'm pulling OVR!1 up with 10K but I'm worried about the others being NC. This part says "low BOM" so it doesn't make sense to add all diz sheeeit.
2020-01-05T16:54:01 < feliwir> qyx, what should i configure as PUPD for `gpio_mode_setup` ?
2020-01-05T16:54:14 < feliwir> For the SCK,MISO,MOSI?
2020-01-05T16:55:07 < qyx> none
2020-01-05T16:55:29 < qyx> they are push-pull and don't need pull-up nor pull-wodn resistors
2020-01-05T16:55:31 < qyx> down
2020-01-05T16:55:46 < qyx> doomba: low power 50mA :S
2020-01-05T16:55:57 < doomba> qyx: ???
2020-01-05T16:56:33 < doomba> qyx: this hub will not be exposing ports for things to plug into, and all downstream devices will be self-powered not from vbus.
2020-01-05T16:57:57 < feliwir> @qyx, so this is correct: https://github.com/Tarcontar/pidrone/blob/master/src/bee/io/sensors.cpp#L60 ?
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2020-01-05T17:19:56 < qyx> feliwir: should be
2020-01-05T17:20:14 < feliwir> any idea why my clock is no square wave?
2020-01-05T17:20:46 < qyx> doomba: no I just laugh at the datasheet saying low-power 50mA with no ports active
2020-01-05T17:27:40 < specing> feliwir: how do you know it is not square?
2020-01-05T17:27:52 < feliwir> the LA only shows peaks
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2020-01-05T17:28:31 < feliwir> so it's 90% and maybe 10% high
2020-01-05T17:28:32 < specing> feliwir: LA is not a scope
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2020-01-05T17:30:23 < feliwir> specing, yes it's not. But i can use it to see the signal?
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2020-01-05T17:32:54 < Thorn> nice bridges https://youtu.be/JY9JoUwEJwk?t=215
2020-01-05T17:33:17 < specing> feliwir: no, you can use it to see whether the signal is above or below the metastable input region at the sample points
2020-01-05T17:33:42 < specing> (and you don't know what it is in the metastable region)
2020-01-05T17:34:13 < feliwir> Yes, but the distribution should be about 50:50 or not?
2020-01-05T17:34:30 < mawk> if the real distribution is 50:50 then you will see 50:50 on the LA, I guess
2020-01-05T17:34:32 < mawk> but the converse is not true
2020-01-05T17:38:14 < mawk> you see your signal passing through f(x) = { 0 if x < 0.33; 1 if x > 0.66 }
2020-01-05T17:38:22 < mawk> or whatever the logic level
2020-01-05T17:43:41 < Cracki> why does that "clock" have such regular pulses at 480 hz?
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2020-01-05T17:44:27 < Cracki> that isn't 90/10, that's just pulses
2020-01-05T17:45:08 < Cracki> and unless those 480 hz are some factor away from your target, it's just glitches
2020-01-05T17:45:54 < feliwir> @qyx, just checked 80Mhz / 256 are 312khz, which i do get for SCK
2020-01-05T17:46:00 < Cracki> why is that not a chipselect
2020-01-05T17:47:32 < Cracki> channel 2 doesn't look like 312 khz, measure it
2020-01-05T17:48:12 < Cracki> it looks like ~5 khz, eyeballing
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2020-01-05T17:50:40 < feliwir> Cracki, https://imgur.com/4VmKmSQ
2020-01-05T17:51:02 < feliwir> Yeah Channel 2 is 48ßHz
2020-01-05T17:51:06 < feliwir> *480
2020-01-05T17:51:24 < Cracki> ah so I missed some pictures
2020-01-05T17:51:28 < feliwir> It's random pretty much
2020-01-05T17:51:49 < feliwir> Cracki, all pictures: https://imgur.com/a/2wHVtCK
2020-01-05T17:54:05 < jadew> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XdbDxEe_FNk
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2020-01-05T17:54:49 < Cracki> kek
2020-01-05T17:55:22 < Cracki> johnny claude walker
2020-01-05T17:55:33 < qyx> Cracki: I guess 480Hz is some beat freq between 312kHz or so and 2MHz sampling
2020-01-05T17:55:40 < Cracki> doubt it
2020-01-05T17:55:57 < Cracki> at least take a multimeter and see what average voltage it says is there
2020-01-05T17:56:28 < Cracki> if you expect a clock at 312 khz, you would see it.
2020-01-05T17:56:38 < Cracki> check if that channel of the LA is broken
2020-01-05T17:57:04 < Cracki> question everything
2020-01-05T17:57:23 < feliwir> i just fixed a lot
2020-01-05T17:57:31 < feliwir> by removing a USART write in my loop
2020-01-05T17:57:32 < Cracki> that data looks like 4800/5000 hz, why is that
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2020-01-05T17:57:40 < feliwir> which seemed to have slowed down everything
2020-01-05T17:57:53 < feliwir> (i tried debugging over serial)
2020-01-05T17:58:00 < Cracki> if that thing was a slave select, the "data" between looks like 10 symbols
2020-01-05T17:58:04 < Cracki> or 9, depending
2020-01-05T18:01:12 < feliwir> Crack for some reason MISO won't stay low. It just peaks
2020-01-05T18:01:36 < Cracki> why should it stay low
2020-01-05T18:01:45 < Cracki> is this SPI?
2020-01-05T18:01:49 < feliwir> Yes
2020-01-05T18:01:58 < Cracki> what reason would miso have to stay low?
2020-01-05T18:02:30 < feliwir> Not stay low
2020-01-05T18:02:33 < feliwir> https://imgur.com/0eV7fEu
2020-01-05T18:02:39 < feliwir> But it's not synced to clock
2020-01-05T18:02:46 < feliwir> Which is 312Mhz
2020-01-05T18:02:51 < Cracki> what are those channels
2020-01-05T18:02:58 < feliwir> 0 is Clock
2020-01-05T18:03:00 < Cracki> that single peak is a glitch
2020-01-05T18:03:11 < feliwir> 1 is MOSI (where i only write 0s)
2020-01-05T18:03:21 < feliwir> and 2 is MISI
2020-01-05T18:03:24 < feliwir> *MISO
2020-01-05T18:03:30 < feliwir> I'd call it a bug, yes
2020-01-05T18:03:43 < Cracki> what's the slave chip
2020-01-05T18:03:58 < feliwir> A GPS (ORG1411)
2020-01-05T18:05:05 < Cracki> it's spi talksa bout "idle patterns" wtf
2020-01-05T18:05:25 < Cracki> does that thing even have a slave select or does it hog the bus constantly
2020-01-05T18:05:38 < feliwir> I have a chip select, yes
2020-01-05T18:05:44 < Cracki> ah! it has an spi chip select, RTS/9
2020-01-05T18:05:54 < Cracki> where is that scoped in the LA
2020-01-05T18:06:01 < Cracki> or is that tied to ground or something
2020-01-05T18:11:05 < Cracki> ah, it tests cts and rts to determine if uart/spi/i2c... i love those kludges
2020-01-05T18:11:54 < feliwir> :D
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2020-01-05T18:12:03 < feliwir> solder issues are always possible for me aswell
2020-01-05T18:12:28 < Cracki> then switch those pins to gpio and wiggle manually
2020-01-05T18:12:48 < Cracki> i.e. main() { while true up sleep down sleep }
2020-01-05T18:14:26 < Cracki> it says uart does 4800 hz
2020-01-05T18:14:37 < Cracki> isn't that convenient
2020-01-05T18:15:02 < Cracki> it sends stuff on uart continuously
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2020-01-05T18:15:16 < Cracki> I'm guessing that's what it does, and it's not doing spi at all
2020-01-05T18:16:10 < Cracki> datashit is shit, they hide commands in "appendices"
2020-01-05T18:16:23 < Cracki> table of contents is like code without indentation
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2020-01-05T18:17:09 < Cracki> "one socket protocol", TIL
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2020-01-05T18:22:37 < feliwir> ` then switch those pins to gpio and wiggle manually` what?
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2020-01-05T18:22:57 < feliwir> I'm no expert, please explain it simple :D
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2020-01-05T18:30:20 < Cracki> there wasn't much exposition when you showed up. I assume you're dealing with an stm32?
2020-01-05T18:40:01 < feliwir> yes
2020-01-05T18:40:03 < feliwir> stm32 l4
2020-01-05T18:40:17 < feliwir> And i use libopencm3
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2020-01-05T18:57:09 < Cracki> if you want to test those pins, use them as gpio
2020-01-05T18:57:32 < Cracki> that's arguably the simplest function you can use on a pin
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2020-01-05T19:56:43 < PaulFertser> "But the charges against Martin were dramatically dropped on Christmas Eve after a court heard the former Isle of Man TT rider does not always apply common sense" Who the fuck expects common sense from a TT racer?! https://www.grimsbytelegraph.co.uk/news/grimsby-news/guy-martin-fake-driving-licence-3681876
2020-01-05T20:03:02 < Steffanx> lol
2020-01-05T20:04:15 < feliwir_> whoever fixes my SPI crap gets a 5$ donation
2020-01-05T20:04:22 < feliwir_> so tired of this :(
2020-01-05T20:04:31 < Steffanx> lol, that wont work feliwir_
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2020-01-05T20:04:50 < feliwir_> Worth a try
2020-01-05T20:04:55 < Cracki> 5 bucks is a quarter of a blowjob
2020-01-05T20:05:09 < catphish> i don't think you're going to get much engineering time for $5 here
2020-01-05T20:05:18 < feliwir_> :D
2020-01-05T20:05:28 < feliwir_> I know
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2020-01-05T20:07:04 < Cracki> paypal.me/ashleighthelion
2020-01-05T20:07:19 < Cracki> (it's a meme)
2020-01-05T20:09:10 < feliwir_> 10k$ donations comes in :D
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2020-01-05T20:11:55 < Cracki> I was wondering what kinda phototransistor to use for the new meter that has IR pulse output... but then I saw the breadboard with the CNY70 on it I was meaning to use for the old analog spinning disc thingy
2020-01-05T20:12:46 < catphish> i think my SD card might be broken https://paste.ubuntu.com/p/MFx3jq5bP6/
2020-01-05T20:13:31 < Cracki> digital image sensor from discrete sensors https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PaXweP73NT4
2020-01-05T20:14:06 < Cracki> catphish, why would you say that?
2020-01-05T20:14:16 < Cracki> maybe it couldn't write a whole 1M block
2020-01-05T20:14:24 < Cracki> and you caught the fraction of a block it refused to write
2020-01-05T20:14:39 < catphish> Cracki: look at the addresses
2020-01-05T20:14:48 < Cracki> they look... low!
2020-01-05T20:15:03 < catphish> and look how many blocks it did write :)
2020-01-05T20:15:10 < Cracki> is anything else writing to that thing after it's been dded?
2020-01-05T20:15:26 < Cracki> well is is 8 gb?
2020-01-05T20:15:34 < catphish> well, i DD'd it like that, ejected it, re-inserted it, and it's still full of photos
2020-01-05T20:15:40 < Cracki> hm
2020-01-05T20:15:47 < Cracki> flush sync something?
2020-01-05T20:15:55 < catphish> also, i took some more photos with the camera, and they disapeared
2020-01-05T20:16:01 < Cracki> ah there's the sync
2020-01-05T20:16:10 < Cracki> buy a new one
2020-01-05T20:16:20 < Cracki> you get 32 or 64 gigs for 10 bucks or so
2020-01-05T20:16:21 < catphish> the reason i tried this is because i took some photos, then went to look at them and they were gone
2020-01-05T20:16:29 < Cracki> hmmmm that's bad
2020-01-05T20:16:53 < catphish> it seems the card is silently failing to write
2020-01-05T20:17:00 < Cracki> (mind the sdhc/sdxc compat, some photo cams and oldish camcorders don't want sdxc)
2020-01-05T20:17:23 < catphish> after 2 full zero-werites, the data is still there
2020-01-05T20:17:38 < Cracki> I never had that tbh. our cards only eventually write so slowly that device write buffer overflows and recording stops
2020-01-05T20:17:47 < Cracki> try sending erase commands
2020-01-05T20:17:48 < catphish> the photos i took, i was able to recover some of them with a tool that looks for JPEGs without using the FAT
2020-01-05T20:18:02 < catphish> so i'm guessing *some* blocks are fine and others not
2020-01-05T20:21:51 < qyx> Cracki: lol the camera
2020-01-05T20:22:08 < Cracki> he did place those by hand!
2020-01-05T20:22:40 < qyx> I didn't read the whole thing, did it work,
2020-01-05T20:22:53 < catphish> recovered photos: https://imgur.com/a/U52N3cT :)
2020-01-05T20:23:17 < Cracki> gray with red head, that's a mutt
2020-01-05T20:23:30 < Cracki> reds are native
2020-01-05T20:23:45 < catphish> mine mostly have red heads and backs
2020-01-05T20:23:58 < catphish> they're very much grey squirrels though
2020-01-05T20:24:01 < Cracki> grays are invaders from north america, iirc
2020-01-05T20:24:13 < catphish> i believe so
2020-01-05T20:24:48 < Cracki> big bad meanies, not as fluffy either
2020-01-05T20:25:14 < catphish> the have really really big tails though
2020-01-05T20:25:30 < catphish> but their heads are more like rats
2020-01-05T20:25:47 < catphish> i have tons of these guys in my garden
2020-01-05T20:25:53 < catphish> i love them
2020-01-05T20:26:15 < Cracki> there's a yt channel making a sport out of messing with them
2020-01-05T20:26:17 < feliwir_> Cracki, what did you say again why MISO is not synced to SCK?
2020-01-05T20:26:19 < Cracki> trampoline and such
2020-01-05T20:26:29 < Cracki> didn't say anything
2020-01-05T20:26:38 < Cracki> my guess is it's not doing spi, it's doing uart
2020-01-05T20:27:06 < Cracki> the 4800 baud data leads me to believe that
2020-01-05T20:27:17 < qyx> feliwir_: did you try to convert that captured data to strings?
2020-01-05T20:27:32 < feliwir_> qyx, yeah it doesn't work
2020-01-05T20:27:39 < qyx> I mean by hand
2020-01-05T20:27:50 < Cracki> throw uart at it
2020-01-05T20:27:55 < Cracki> uart will likely decode that
2020-01-05T20:28:09 < Cracki> 4800 baud
2020-01-05T20:28:30 < Cracki> i'm betting you'll see NMEA messages
2020-01-05T20:28:36 < feliwir_> qyx, how that?
2020-01-05T20:29:16 < Cracki> right side panel
2020-01-05T20:29:18 < Cracki> add decoder
2020-01-05T20:29:24 < Cracki> "analyzer"
2020-01-05T20:30:08 < feliwir_> sick :D
2020-01-05T20:30:11 < catphish> SD card won't be causing any more trouble: https://i.imgur.com/vzSnISN.jpg
2020-01-05T20:30:47 < feliwir_> It's always garbage what i read
2020-01-05T20:30:59 < feliwir_> https://imgur.com/a/bsngBAm
2020-01-05T20:31:14 < feliwir_> qyx, they run at completly different frequencies
2020-01-05T20:32:58 < Cracki> use uart
2020-01-05T20:33:09 < Cracki> uart on whatever you have there that's 4800 baud
2020-01-05T20:33:13 < Cracki> that'll decode.
2020-01-05T20:33:13 < feliwir_> Cracki, uart is not connected for my PCB
2020-01-05T20:33:17 < Cracki> idc
2020-01-05T20:33:20 < Cracki> that signal is uart
2020-01-05T20:33:22 < Steffanx> Whoa do they even sell class 4 nowadays, catphish? 
2020-01-05T20:33:37 < Cracki> first pic is uart https://imgur.com/a/2wHVtCK
2020-01-05T20:33:47 < Cracki> (channel 2)
2020-01-05T20:34:32 < feliwir_> Cracki, YOU ARE RIGHT
2020-01-05T20:34:39 < feliwir_> UART makes sense
2020-01-05T20:34:44 < feliwir_> On Channel 2
2020-01-05T20:35:04 < feliwir_> So how to enable SPI mode?
2020-01-05T20:36:11 < feliwir_> The only information i have: `In order to use SPI interface for ORG1411 – you should leave CTS and RTS pads floating while starting up the module.`
2020-01-05T20:36:22 < Cracki> and that's what you do
2020-01-05T20:36:26 < Cracki> *should do
2020-01-05T20:36:37 < Cracki> what do you do to these pads?
2020-01-05T20:36:37 < feliwir_> And how do i do that with opencm3?
2020-01-05T20:36:45 < Cracki> you leave the pins unconfigured
2020-01-05T20:36:51 < Cracki> until you know the module has started up
2020-01-05T20:37:04 < feliwir_> I have a 3s delay at start
2020-01-05T20:37:08 < Cracki> find where you config these pins to be input/output, pullups, etc
2020-01-05T20:37:09 < feliwir_> so they are unconfigure
2020-01-05T20:37:31 < Cracki> take the circuit off power and measure resistance to ground and vcc
2020-01-05T20:37:39 < Cracki> of both those pins
2020-01-05T20:37:44 < qyx> feliwir_: we were there yesterday
2020-01-05T20:37:46 < qyx> Jan mode
2020-01-05T20:38:05 < feliwir_> qyx, but i had no logic level analyzer then _D
2020-01-05T20:38:28 < qyx> disable the module, unconfigure pins like yesterday, wait some msecs, power on the module, wait those 3 secs
2020-01-05T20:38:32 < qyx> configure the pins back
2020-01-05T20:38:43 < qyx> are you actually able to power off the module?
2020-01-05T20:38:51 < feliwir_> no
2020-01-05T20:39:00 < feliwir_> it's at power right from the start
2020-01-05T20:39:21 < qyx> I suppose you are removing power when you flash new firmware
2020-01-05T20:39:28 < feliwir_> no
2020-01-05T20:39:43 < feliwir_> i use openocd to flash new firmware through gpio pins of my RPI
2020-01-05T20:40:07 < feliwir_> openocd resets it for a short time, yes
2020-01-05T20:40:23 < Cracki> that first picture said '$q\n\xe2\xe2' or 24 71 0A E2 E2
2020-01-05T20:40:26 < qyx> I suppose you should be removing power
2020-01-05T20:40:58 < qyx> those two config signals are captured at power on
2020-01-05T20:41:06 < Cracki> and maybe schedule a redesign where you can cut power to the module (add a mosfet)
2020-01-05T20:41:32 < Cracki> (unless it has a reset pin)
2020-01-05T20:41:49 < feliwir_> It has a power toggle pin
2020-01-05T20:42:10 < feliwir_> (not connected on my pcb)
2020-01-05T20:42:51 < Cracki> it has a reset pin and you didn't at least break that out? :O
2020-01-05T20:44:09 < Cracki> btw, $Q is the "pong" response to a ping request in a NMEA message
2020-01-05T20:44:34 < catphish> Steffanx: no idea, that card could be 10 years old
2020-01-05T20:44:35 < Cracki> not sure why it would send that when it doesn't receive anything from you
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2020-01-05T20:49:20 < Stephan__> it seems like i can't get the SPI mode done with my current setup
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2020-01-05T21:00:12 < PaulFertser> Hey android pros. How do I tell what kind of MIMO capabilities does "huawei btv-dl09" offer?
2020-01-05T21:00:51 < Cracki> says 2x2 https://www.devicespecifications.com/en/comparison/f983fa288
2020-01-05T21:01:00 < Cracki> (google snippet says)
2020-01-05T21:01:38 < Cracki> oh, that column says "-"
2020-01-05T21:03:32 < PaulFertser> Cracki: not convincing, and for the other devices it's unclear if it has two phys for different bands or switches between them and whether each has 2T2R and what does MiMO mean for the last device in the comparison...
2020-01-05T21:04:31 < Cracki> any idea what kind of cellular modem they use?
2020-01-05T21:05:08 < PaulFertser> I do not understand how to really check any of those data...
2020-01-05T21:07:27 < Cracki> might this help? https://developer.android.com/reference/android/os/Build.html#getRadioVersion()
2020-01-05T21:07:56 < Cracki> it's just version, dunno if they store mfg and model anywhere
2020-01-05T21:08:08 < Cracki> you might have to grep firmware blobs
2020-01-05T21:09:08 < PaulFertser> Sigh :( such a basic thing, just learning hardware capabilities...
2020-01-05T21:09:20 < qyx> isnt MIMO the same as nTnR and SISO 1T1R?
2020-01-05T21:09:52 < PaulFertser> qyx: yes
2020-01-05T21:10:03 < PaulFertser> qyx: I'm interested in learning "n" for that specific device
2020-01-05T21:10:10 < qyx> oh
2020-01-05T21:10:32 < PaulFertser> Because I can't understand whether I have misconfigured my AP or the device is just not capable on 2.4.
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2020-01-05T21:11:43 < PaulFertser> And if I was shopping how the hell am I supposed to choose?..
2020-01-05T21:12:24 < Cracki> by claimed throughput I would imagine
2020-01-05T21:12:30 < feliwir> I think i got it
2020-01-05T21:12:37 < Cracki> ah, you're asking for wifi, not cellular?
2020-01-05T21:13:11 < PaulFertser> Cracki: yes, wifi.
2020-01-05T21:13:26 < PaulFertser> And I can't see any claimed throughput either. And it might be different on different bands too.
2020-01-05T21:15:30 < Cracki> found some mentions of 515 Mb/s
2020-01-05T21:17:18 < PaulFertser> Cracki: wifi speed is usually in 150 increments as single stream with short GI and HT40 is exactly that.
2020-01-05T21:17:44 < Cracki> here they benchmarked it at 200 something https://www.notebookcheck.net/Huawei-MediaPad-M3-8-4-Tablet-Review.185211.0.html
2020-01-05T21:20:06 < Cracki> https://fccid.io/QISBTV-DL09
2020-01-05T21:20:19 < Cracki> tons of pdfs in there
2020-01-05T21:20:41 < PaulFertser> Cracki: thank you. That would suggest 2x2. 
2020-01-05T21:20:55 < feliwir> is spi_read8/spi_write8 blocking?
2020-01-05T21:21:05 < feliwir> or what will it read when there's no data
2020-01-05T21:21:34 < Cracki> spi is a shift register
2020-01-05T21:21:41 < Cracki> you can only read and write at the same time
2020-01-05T21:22:09 < feliwir> well for the l4 i can't use spi_xfer
2020-01-05T21:22:20 < feliwir> since  it's bugged as i was told
2020-01-05T21:23:35 < Cracki> http://libopencm3.org/docs/latest/stm32f7/html/group__spi__file.html#ga1bfe6bd4512dc398cb7f680feec01b20
2020-01-05T21:23:40 < Cracki> you can check the implementation
2020-01-05T21:23:48 < Cracki> read8 blocks until data ready
2020-01-05T21:23:54 < qyx> it is not bugged, it is a feature
2020-01-05T21:24:36 < Cracki> so you do a write, then you do a read for what came back
2020-01-05T21:24:49 < feliwir> i call write8, followed by read8
2020-01-05T21:24:54 < Cracki> spi_xfer source: http://libopencm3.org/docs/latest/stm32f7/html/spi__common__all_8c_source.html#l00232
2020-01-05T21:24:54 < feliwir> but no waiting
2020-01-05T21:25:27 < Cracki> lines 2 and 3 are identical to spi_read8
2020-01-05T21:25:36 < Cracki> (except for DR/DR8)
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2020-01-05T21:27:05 < qyx> feliwir: I sent you a code with spi_send8
2020-01-05T21:27:08 < qyx> not with spi_write8
2020-01-05T21:27:13 < qyx> thats quite different
2020-01-05T21:27:30 < qyx> asi you can see, send8 is blocking, write8 is not
2020-01-05T21:27:54 < qyx> si you are attempting read before your clock is output
2020-01-05T21:28:05 < PaulFertser> Cracki: according to https://fccid.io/QISBTV-DL09/Test-Report/TestReport-WLan-DTS-3149852 it's 1T1R on 2.4 GHz and they didn't test 5 GHz and the US versions have that disabled in firmware. Heh. OK, that's it then, thanks a lot! Android world is insane...
2020-01-05T21:28:11 < feliwir> nvm i use send8
2020-01-05T21:28:23 < Cracki> heh
2020-01-05T21:28:54 < qyx> meh
2020-01-05T21:29:22 < feliwir> https://imgur.com/TCJkIL2
2020-01-05T21:29:30 < feliwir> i'm definetly in SPI mode now
2020-01-05T21:32:27 < Cracki> only problem I see is lack of framing. without the chip select you don't know where the byte starts
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2020-01-05T21:36:23 < Cracki> so I hope you only have the LA unconnected to chipselect
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2020-01-05T21:42:38 < qyx> connect CS
2020-01-05T21:42:41 < qyx> to LA
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2020-01-05T22:56:15 < feliwir> qyx, Cracki i only set CS to low once
2020-01-05T22:56:22 < feliwir> i'm in a reading loop afterwards
2020-01-05T22:56:40 < Cracki> I guess that works, so long as the chip notices
2020-01-05T22:56:43 < feliwir> I want to read until i get one full NMEA message, which never happens
2020-01-05T22:57:05 < Cracki> do you get half a message, or totally different stuff
2020-01-05T22:57:21 < Cracki> it may not use nmea over spi
2020-01-05T22:57:38 < feliwir> totally different stuff
2020-01-05T22:58:30 < feliwir> Cracki, i see some bits occasionally
2020-01-05T22:58:35 < feliwir> but a lot of 0,255 in the mix
2020-01-05T22:58:48 < feliwir> (some correct letters i mean)
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2020-01-05T23:13:37 < qyx> feliwir: you may set CS high whenever you want
2020-01-05T23:13:40 < qyx> between bytes of course
2020-01-05T23:13:50 < qyx> to maintain proper framing
2020-01-05T23:14:30 < qyx> make a function to read one character
2020-01-05T23:15:06 < qyx> set CS low, spi_send8(.., 0); c = spi_read8(..); set CS high; return
2020-01-05T23:15:42 < zyp> send/read should be the same function IMO
2020-01-05T23:15:47 < zyp> since it happens at the same time
2020-01-05T23:16:07 < qyx> you mean send instead of send8?
2020-01-05T23:16:25 < zyp> are we talking about a specific API?
2020-01-05T23:16:29 < qyx> yes, libopencm3
2020-01-05T23:16:35 < zyp> ah, then disregard me
2020-01-05T23:18:00 < qyx> offtopic, related: MT7688 has SPI hardware incapable of receiving and sending simultaneously
2020-01-05T23:18:21 < zyp> haha
2020-01-05T23:18:25 < zyp> awesome
2020-01-05T23:18:52 < qyx> but I haven't confirmed it yet
2020-01-05T23:20:15 < feliwir> qyx, i'm in usart mode
2020-01-05T23:20:20 < feliwir> no idea how that happened
2020-01-05T23:21:23 < feliwir> i had spi before -.-
2020-01-05T23:21:35 < Cracki> https://expanse.fandom.com/wiki/Felota
2020-01-05T23:23:30 < feliwir> i have the pins floating
2020-01-05T23:38:15 < feliwir> qyx, Cracki i get the idle pattern now :)
2020-01-05T23:38:29 < feliwir> i wonder what i should do with that though
2020-01-05T23:39:57 < feliwir> just skip?
2020-01-05T23:40:27 < qyx> how did you manage to get it
2020-01-05T23:41:21 < feliwir> https://imgur.com/9Un6UaF
2020-01-05T23:41:24 < feliwir> with what you said
2020-01-05T23:43:01 < Cracki> you can set the spi decoder to show you characters instead of decimal numbers
2020-01-05T23:43:14 < feliwir> https://github.com/Tarcontar/pidrone/blob/master/src/bee/io/sensors.cpp#L375
2020-01-05T23:43:42 < feliwir> ah great
2020-01-05T23:43:53 < feliwir> why do i have those framing errors though?
2020-01-05T23:44:07 < Cracki> what errors, those from the uart decoder you don't need anymore?
2020-01-05T23:44:29 < feliwir> you are a very wise man
2020-01-05T23:44:58 < feliwir> so now i just check if the byte is A7 or B4 and skip it?
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--- Day changed Mon Jan 06 2020
2020-01-06T00:04:01 < bitmask> nice just got a typewriter made between 1961 and 1966
2020-01-06T00:04:39 < bitmask> trying to pinpoint the year
2020-01-06T00:05:21 -!- Jybz [~jibz@2a01:e0a:198:e110:4a51:b7ff:fe84:99e6] has quit [Quit: Konversation terminated!]
2020-01-06T00:12:37 -!- fsasm [~fsasm@93-82-85-125.adsl.highway.telekom.at] has quit [Ping timeout: 268 seconds]
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2020-01-06T00:16:44 < jadew> take it to starbucks with you and pretend you're writing a book
2020-01-06T00:17:13 < jadew> don't forget a really thick-frame glasses
2020-01-06T00:20:50 < bitmask> I think I got it down to 1965 or 1966
2020-01-06T00:20:59 < bitmask> definitely will
2020-01-06T00:24:20 < Cracki> does it make nice loud tak tak?
2020-01-06T00:24:34 < Cracki> and BING rrrrrrt?
2020-01-06T00:24:55 < bitmask> no ribbon to really test it out but yea
2020-01-06T00:25:18 < bitmask> its a 1966 Olympia SF Deluxe,  the laptop of the day
2020-01-06T00:25:20 < Cracki> you will get so much hipster pussy
2020-01-06T00:25:32 < bitmask> it might be too modern for them
2020-01-06T00:26:45 < Laurenceb> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sOTBU5QJJWM&feature=youtu.be
2020-01-06T00:29:53 < bitmask> they make purple ribbon for this guy too, im gonna look so cool
2020-01-06T00:32:31 -!- gregorian [~volno@chello085216193138.chello.sk] has quit []
2020-01-06T00:33:47 < Cracki> purple, that looks nice
2020-01-06T00:34:30 < Cracki> oh laurence, they didn't do their job! there are witches today who try to kill trump with curses
2020-01-06T00:35:48 < qyx> feliwir: with toggling CS?
2020-01-06T00:36:08 < feliwir> yes
2020-01-06T00:36:12 < feliwir> see the link above
2020-01-06T00:36:29 < qyx> yeah
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2020-01-06T01:20:36 < qyx> nearly finished https://i.imgur.com/PDkDgzx.png
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2020-01-06T01:27:37 < thardin> PCI-e? and SMA connectors
2020-01-06T01:29:15 < Cracki> https://www.you-books.com/book/I-Asimov/The-Secret-Sense
2020-01-06T01:29:31 < Cracki> wouldn't such a sense be marvelous
2020-01-06T01:29:58 < Cracki> you could see the effect of curved traces, of every via, ...
2020-01-06T01:31:16 < qyx> yeah if this thing works on 2 layers I will redo it properly on 4L
2020-01-06T01:31:32 < qyx> I expect it to be adventurous
2020-01-06T01:31:37 < qyx> together with the mediatek shit
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2020-01-06T02:07:15 < bitmask> two attoseconds is to a second as one second is to the age of the universe
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2020-01-06T02:58:17 < qyx> st.com no worky?
2020-01-06T02:58:46 < qyx> oh I have to prepend www
2020-01-06T03:05:57 < dongs> https://twitter.com/internetofshit/status/1213939194785148929?s=19 nioce
2020-01-06T03:10:39 < jadew> man... twatter interface is damn stupid
2020-01-06T03:13:50 < dongs> absolutely
2020-01-06T03:13:58 < dongs> that and  the fact that gizmodo link on there is a fucking amp link
2020-01-06T03:14:03 < dongs> that continued being amp on desktop
2020-01-06T03:14:11 < dongs> because the fuckfgace who linked it is a fucking nigger
2020-01-06T03:14:23 < dongs> 1st amp click of 2020, rip
2020-01-06T03:15:04 < jadew> I'm off to bed, night
2020-01-06T03:32:26 < karlp> qyx: what's U10? usb hub?
2020-01-06T03:40:34 < karlp> doomba: if you don't have anything that can indicate overcurrent, just don't use them? what's the confusing bit?
2020-01-06T03:40:49 < karlp> (hwo did you choose the cypress part btw, just curious)
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2020-01-06T03:43:17 < feliwir> My NMEA message are 99% correct now
2020-01-06T03:43:29 < feliwir> but the `$` is missing
2020-01-06T03:43:41 < feliwir> (only when reading myself)
2020-01-06T03:46:27 < doomba> karlp: they're active low inputs for overcurrent detection. according to the datasheet, the hub will report the condition to the host and "disable the power output to the external power device"
2020-01-06T03:47:51 < doomba> since i'm not using any external power devices, nor am i concerned about overcurrent issues (because of self-powering), i think i'm safe pulling up GANG and OVR!1
2020-01-06T03:48:15 < dongs> are we talking about USB hub
2020-01-06T03:48:22 < doomba> yeah the cypress one
2020-01-06T03:48:54 < dongs> why would you use that shit instead of GL850
2020-01-06T03:48:59 < dongs> which is like $0.50 in china
2020-01-06T03:49:14 < dongs> er GL852
2020-01-06T03:49:17 < dongs> but anyway
2020-01-06T03:49:21 < dongs> all gang/overcurrent related shit
2020-01-06T03:49:36 < dongs> isnt gonna get used unless you have actual USB ports wiht overcurrent switches
2020-01-06T03:49:42 < feliwir> https://gist.github.com/feliwir/61d3b0f15c34a54c74a0a3b47571f5e5
2020-01-06T03:49:49 < dongs> i think OVR is input from overcurrent detect and gang shit is output to turn it off
2020-01-06T03:49:51 < feliwir> instead of $ i get some whitespace character
2020-01-06T03:50:06 < feliwir> and some weird L at the end always
2020-01-06T03:50:26 < doomba> on this cypress part - when gang mode is enabled - only one overcurrent detection pin is enabled.
2020-01-06T03:50:43 < dongs> none of this matters to you tho
2020-01-06T03:50:53 < doomba> it might?
2020-01-06T03:51:22 < doomba> if i leave it NC, the hub could report overcurrent to the host
2020-01-06T03:52:14 < doomba> i'm not satisfied with the vagueness of this part, but it was less vague than the cheaper stuff i found so far.
2020-01-06T03:52:38 < dongs> uh
2020-01-06T03:52:42 < dongs> have you looked at GL852?
2020-01-06T03:53:13 < doomba> no
2020-01-06T03:53:15 < dongs> i have several designs with it
2020-01-06T03:53:19 < dongs> pgang = floating
2020-01-06T03:53:27 < dongs> ovcur, pwren = all floating
2020-01-06T03:53:27 < dongs> done
2020-01-06T03:53:29 < dongs> no issues ever
2020-01-06T03:53:58 < dongs> damnit, it is GL850G. i keep fucking up that part#
2020-01-06T03:54:23 < doomba> who sells it
2020-01-06T03:54:33 < dongs> https://lcsc.com/product-detail/USB-ICs_Genesys-Logic_GL850G-HHY22_Genesys-Logic-GL850G-HHY22_C136617.html anyone i guess
2020-01-06T03:54:55 < doomba> never ordered from lcsc
2020-01-06T03:55:01 < dongs> https://www.aliexpress.com/wholesale?catId=0&initiative_id=SB_20200105175452&SearchText=GL850G
2020-01-06T03:55:04 < dongs> etc./
2020-01-06T03:55:16 < dongs> the tsop28 is most common one
2020-01-06T03:56:05 < dongs> anyway
2020-01-06T03:56:08 < dongs> looking at your cypress shit
2020-01-06T03:56:14 < dongs> active LOW for ovr
2020-01-06T03:56:22 < dongs> so just tie it high and done
2020-01-06T03:56:26 < dongs> actualyl
2020-01-06T03:56:32 < dongs> looks like it has Rup internal pullup
2020-01-06T03:56:34 < dongs> so just NC that shit
2020-01-06T03:56:38 < dongs> why are you confused
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2020-01-06T03:57:38 < doomba> this cypress part and the GL850 are almost identical in function
2020-01-06T03:57:58 < dongs> how unique do you really expect a USB hub to be
2020-01-06T03:58:04 < dongs> but i bet that cypress part isn't $0.25
2020-01-06T03:58:10 < doomba> no the cypress is like $4 lol
2020-01-06T03:58:18 < doomba> but i only order from digikey
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2020-01-06T04:02:13 < dongs> https://i.imgur.com/pXAeS4g.png production-tested GL850 schematic with external 3.3V power to not use internal LDO 5V>3.3V
2020-01-06T04:02:24 < dongs> if you wanna use LDO connect V33 to DVDD
2020-01-06T04:02:59 < dongs> and iirc add a cap to V33. you can see i deleted it from the next to dvdd pins.
2020-01-06T04:03:38 < karlp> does that shit really haver two power outs/over current ins, for a 4 port hub?
2020-01-06T04:03:44 < dongs> yes
2020-01-06T04:03:48  * karlp grins
2020-01-06T04:03:50 < karlp> nice
2020-01-06T04:04:07 < dongs> the 48pin version is all
2020-01-06T04:04:09 < karlp> I'm still planning on usb2517, nto going to build enough to save money on doing the cascaded shit
2020-01-06T04:04:17 < dongs> nobody uses overcurrent shit in tsop28 version
2020-01-06T04:04:21 < dongs> its usually for internal hubs anyway
2020-01-06T04:05:08 < karlp> 850 is stt, 852 is mtt, so you're forgiven for mixin those two up anyaw
2020-01-06T04:05:16 < dongs> ah
2020-01-06T04:05:26 < karlp> 852_F_ looks rad, but unobtainium
2020-01-06T04:06:02 < dongs> F? whats good about that
2020-01-06T04:06:27 < dongs> oh programmable 8051?
2020-01-06T04:06:53 < karlp> you can configure it via usb hub commands instead of eeprom shit
2020-01-06T04:06:59 < karlp> aiui anyway
2020-01-06T04:11:01 < doomba> dongs: didn't look much - the gl850 has eeprom for setting pid/vid/string?
2020-01-06T04:11:21 < karlp> of course :)
2020-01-06T04:11:22 < doomba> the cypress 28 pin ver can haz i2c eeprom
2020-01-06T04:11:34 < dongs> it looks like it, but i never gave a shit considering its an internal hub
2020-01-06T04:11:38 < dongs> why would you wanna set any of that shit?
2020-01-06T04:11:42 < doomba> because autism
2020-01-06T04:11:55 < dongs> for when you tell your customer you used a $4 cypress hub and wanna keep same ID + strings?
2020-01-06T04:12:00 < dongs> and use $0.20 gl instead
2020-01-06T04:12:04 < doomba> i don't have a customer
2020-01-06T04:12:10 < doomba> this is for 1 pcb
2020-01-06T04:12:16 < dongs> autism it is then
2020-01-06T04:12:27 < doomba> which is why i'm keeping everything on digikey because i luvs the BOM manager
2020-01-06T04:12:51 < doomba> also because it's part of the cluster project which is supreme autism
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2020-01-06T04:14:48 < dongs> lol at everyone in this channel making fucking bullshti rpi cluster/rack/whatever the fuck stuff
2020-01-06T04:15:11 < doomba> i donno who else
2020-01-06T04:15:17 < doomba> afaik it's just me
2020-01-06T04:15:22 < dongs> weapons-grade autism
2020-01-06T04:15:26 < dongs> i think zyp, karlp and you
2020-01-06T04:15:28 < dongs> and qyx 
2020-01-06T04:16:05 < doomba> they probably have a reason for it though. i don't.
2020-01-06T04:16:42 < doomba> unless you consider flexing my neetitis a reason
2020-01-06T04:17:14 < karlp> not me man..
2020-01-06T04:17:29 < karlp> I'm doing a single pciex slot/connector jsut as a cheap right angle pcb board to board
2020-01-06T04:17:39 < karlp> zyp and qyx are both doing multi slot shit
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2020-01-06T05:05:35 < dongs> https://www.globalsources.com/gsol/I/Membrane-switch/p/sm/1160445367.htm#1160445367 for the shit like this
2020-01-06T05:05:39 < dongs> whats the connector thats usually used?
2020-01-06T05:06:16 < dongs> it doesnt look like it has much of a backing so im not sure how it goes into something without a clip
2020-01-06T05:17:47 < dongs> https://www.velleman.eu/products/view/?id=16528 getting somewehre
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2020-01-06T06:21:05 < aandrew> one of them is doing USB on the backplane I think
2020-01-06T06:21:24 < aandrew> dongs: nicomatic makes conectors for that kind of thing
2020-01-06T06:21:42 < aandrew> ran into that on a control box for big hydraulic piledrivers
2020-01-06T06:22:02 < aandrew> also found a source for mil-spec circular connectors that didn't cost the GDP of a small nation
2020-01-06T06:22:11 < aandrew> some japanese company
2020-01-06T06:23:53 < aandrew> DDK
2020-01-06T06:24:02 < aandrew> they make the mil-spec amphenol connector knockoffs
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2020-01-06T06:51:04 < Laurenceb> breaking news iran has poo'd directly on donald trump
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2020-01-06T07:08:08 < englishman> is ces interesting
2020-01-06T07:08:13 < englishman> like, to go to
2020-01-06T07:08:18 < dongs> no
2020-01-06T07:08:23 < dongs> unless you want to see like
2020-01-06T07:08:27 < dongs> bluetooth tampons and shit
2020-01-06T07:08:31 < dongs> from chinese makers
2020-01-06T07:09:08 < englishman> The industry is there tho, like, Keysight, ublox, etc
2020-01-06T07:16:13 < dongs> TM1650 is fucking 6.2c
2020-01-06T07:16:25 < dongs> that is amaze
2020-01-06T07:16:48 < dongs> https://lcsc.com/product-detail/LED-Drivers_TM1650_C44444.html https://datasheet.lcsc.com/szlcsc/1810281208_TM-Shenzhen-Titan-Micro-Elec-TM1650_C44444.pdf
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2020-01-06T08:58:25 < semikaki> lurence
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2020-01-06T10:00:25 < qyx> karlp: MCP25625
2020-01-06T10:06:39 < dongs> why such autism?
2020-01-06T10:06:43 < dongs> cant you use QFN STM32
2020-01-06T10:06:52 < dongs> oh, integrated transceiver
2020-01-06T10:06:54 < dongs> well thats neat
2020-01-06T10:06:55 < dongs> I GUESS
2020-01-06T10:07:00 < dongs> until you burn the said transceiver
2020-01-06T10:07:10 < dongs> and thats usuallyt hte first thing to get burnt
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2020-01-06T10:13:45 < qyx> it is around 2€ or so
2020-01-06T10:13:57 < qyx> also it looks like it is two chips in a single package
2020-01-06T10:14:23 < qyx> MCP2515 and MCP2562
2020-01-06T10:15:10 < qyx> and for STM32 I would need to write the firmware and a lunix driver
2020-01-06T10:15:24 < qyx> this should be without any additional work
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2020-01-06T11:36:53 < dongs> hmm odroid n2 looks neat
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2020-01-06T11:43:05 < con3> hmm... do you guys have any book/resource recommendations for mocking and testing embedded systems?
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2020-01-06T12:00:54 < qyx> meh, except no ssd slot and single hdmi only
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2020-01-06T12:08:21 < dongs> qyx wat
2020-01-06T12:08:32 < dongs> why teh fuck would you need either of those things
2020-01-06T12:11:28 < qyx> either of what
2020-01-06T12:11:40 < qyx> because I need can on the linux shit
2020-01-06T12:11:44 < dongs> a fucking SSD slot or more than one HDMI
2020-01-06T12:11:56 < dongs> if anything I'd want displayport over hdmi but i wuldnt use this shit for anything other than media player so
2020-01-06T12:12:37 < qyx> meh
2020-01-06T12:12:50 < qyx> it is a year of lunix on desktop
2020-01-06T12:13:57 < dongs> not even close
2020-01-06T12:14:10 < dongs> oh lewl looks like libreelec split off into some other shit again
2020-01-06T12:14:17 < dongs> now its coreelc
2020-01-06T12:14:19 < dongs> fucking retards
2020-01-06T12:14:25 < dongs> i forgot waht libreleec was
2020-01-06T12:14:27 < dongs> openelec i think
2020-01-06T12:14:46 < dongs> imagine having nothing better to do than rename shit
2020-01-06T12:19:21 < karlp> it was, "this isn't free enough, better make a freeeeer version"
2020-01-06T12:19:29 < dongs> correct
2020-01-06T12:19:38 < dongs> im not sure of libre->core split tho
2020-01-06T12:19:51 < karlp> I tried librelec on my odroid, was more pain than I felt it should be for "well supported hardware"
2020-01-06T12:19:57 < karlp> ended up buying a mi box s
2020-01-06T12:20:07 < dongs> idk, my shit just works
2020-01-06T12:20:10 < dongs> on C2
2020-01-06T12:20:17 < dongs> i donno how old your thing is tho.
2020-01-06T12:20:21 < karlp> c2
2020-01-06T12:20:28 < dongs> what issues have tyou had with it?
2020-01-06T12:20:38 < dongs> my only problme with it is it doesnt play 200mbit 4K H264
2020-01-06T12:20:43 < dongs> everythin else works
2020-01-06T12:20:45 < karlp> I think it's just that kodi is actually shit, but everyone is too deeply embedded into it to accept that perhaps there's other ways of doign things
2020-01-06T12:20:49 < dongs> of course its shit
2020-01-06T12:20:54 < dongs> thats a given
2020-01-06T12:20:57 < PaulFertser> tfw dongs is happier with lunix than karlp omg
2020-01-06T12:20:57 < dongs> but just like lunix
2020-01-06T12:21:02 < karlp> PaulFertser: :)
2020-01-06T12:21:06 < dongs> its shit, but its the only choice
2020-01-06T12:21:13 < dongs> because other options are even shittier
2020-01-06T12:21:31 < karlp> netflix inside kodi was ~worthless
2020-01-06T12:21:43 < karlp> I got a remote control working at least, but it was fucking pain
2020-01-06T12:21:59 < karlp> and libreelec insisted on being, "I OWN THE COMUTER NOW, YOU CAN NOT RUN ANYTHING ELSE!"
2020-01-06T12:22:01 < dongs> your TV doesnt have HDMI ECE?
2020-01-06T12:22:03 < dongs> your TV doesnt have HDMI CEC?
2020-01-06T12:22:04 < karlp> which was like, yuck fuck off.
2020-01-06T12:22:09 < dongs> i didn't need to fucking do ANYTHING for remote.
2020-01-06T12:22:11 < dongs> it just roks.
2020-01-06T12:22:12 < dongs> works
2020-01-06T12:22:16 < dongs> all the buttons etc.
2020-01-06T12:22:31 < karlp> dongs: allegedly, but turning on cec in kodi didn't give me much joy
2020-01-06T12:22:39 < dongs> its on at boot...
2020-01-06T12:22:44 < dongs> i didnt need to enable anything
2020-01-06T12:23:04 < karlp> got sick of wrestling with it, so the c2 went back to doign what it was doign, file share and a few little services, and got a mi box s for netflix+kodi to play off the fileshares.
2020-01-06T12:23:09 < karlp> kodi's dumb as fuck though,
2020-01-06T12:23:33 < karlp> like, "no, you need to rename all your files, we're not remotely capable of understanding the filenames that every torrent ever uses"
2020-01-06T12:23:45 < karlp> and "no, you absolutely cannot put movies and tv in the same share, I can't handle that"
2020-01-06T12:23:57 < dongs> wuuut
2020-01-06T12:24:00 < dongs> man you're doing this shit way wrong
2020-01-06T12:24:04 < karlp> apparently
2020-01-06T12:24:35 < karlp> download torrent to file share, point kodi at file share, fails to parse everything
2020-01-06T12:24:51 < karlp> I can pick files manually in files view, but that's clearly not how it's meant to be done.
2020-01-06T12:25:19 < karlp> manually went and renamed some stuff to see what kodi _could_ be like, and it's like, well, ok, sure, but why did I have to do that?!
2020-01-06T12:25:30 < dongs> as opposed to what? file view is what is on by default and I never bothered wiht anything else
2020-01-06T12:25:33 < PaulFertser> I think I saw Kodi downloading torrents and even subtitles on its own and playing it right away.
2020-01-06T12:25:38 < karlp> it's not on by default,
2020-01-06T12:25:42 < dongs> i jsut have \\server\media shared (from windows 2008 r2 server, mind you)
2020-01-06T12:25:42 < karlp> what kodi are you using?
2020-01-06T12:25:48 < dongs> and it attaches to it and just gives me a list of all the shit.
2020-01-06T12:25:58 < karlp> kodi default is all titles and genres and seasons and shit
2020-01-06T12:25:59 < dongs> wahtever is in libreelec
2020-01-06T12:26:04 < dongs> yeah i dont do any of that garbage
2020-01-06T12:26:09 < dongs> just point it to a file sahre
2020-01-06T12:26:12 < dongs> done
2020-01-06T12:26:13 < karlp> this was with libreelc from like two weeks ago
2020-01-06T12:26:20 < dongs> https://libreelec.tv/downloads_new/odroid_c2/ this <
2020-01-06T12:26:31 < dongs> (and befoer that i ran 8.xsomething for a year or more until sd card died
2020-01-06T12:26:32 < karlp> right, ok, so you just went around it into files 
2020-01-06T12:26:43 < dongs> then i got a new sandisk EXXXXTREME and upgraded to latest
2020-01-06T12:26:44 < karlp> that worked, yeah, I just thought it was lame given how rad kodi's meant to be
2020-01-06T12:26:45 < PaulFertser> The problem is that karlp has no w2k8 server apparently
2020-01-06T12:26:54 < dongs> the only settings i needed to do was plug in keyboard to type in IP and name of share
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2020-01-06T12:27:00 < karlp> PaulFertser: yeah, I would like to work towards something like that,
2020-01-06T12:27:01 < dongs> yeah paul thats definitely the issue here
2020-01-06T12:27:07 < dongs> also file serving from a fucking garbage ARM box
2020-01-06T12:27:14 < dongs> karlp prolly has nothing above 720p
2020-01-06T12:27:15 < karlp> as kodi can't see the wife's nfs share on her mac, 
2020-01-06T12:27:28 < karlp> same garbage arm box you're using dood :)
2020-01-06T12:27:38 < karlp> it's trivial load for it.
2020-01-06T12:27:50 < dongs> i am using it for *playback* and I am well aware it will never reach anywhere near gbit throughput
2020-01-06T12:27:51 < karlp> it's just a computer that can be always on :)
2020-01-06T12:28:06 < PaulFertser> I saw Kodi running on TV itself and streaming from torrents. Was kinda impressed.
2020-01-06T12:28:40 < karlp> PaulFertser: yeah, need to spend some time on that, need a solution that is easier than get torrent to wifes' laptop, then share that somewhere else
2020-01-06T12:28:49 < karlp> not an exciting thing to spend time on
2020-01-06T12:29:01 < karlp> but she's watching a few things that aren't on netflix (unsurprisingly)
2020-01-06T12:29:16 < PaulFertser> What was funny is that japs from Sony managed to add 100Base-T instead of GigE to a super-cool modern expensive TV.
2020-01-06T12:29:39 < dongs> yeah. 2019 toshiba OLED TVs are also 100mbit lan
2020-01-06T12:29:42 < dongs> like, what the actual fuck
2020-01-06T12:29:55 < dongs> i sometimes record some shit to internal hdd and it takes literally hours to move it
2020-01-06T12:30:00 < PaulFertser> Any explanations? It's just super-odd and enraging.
2020-01-06T12:30:08 < karlp> it's enough for streaming h265 4k isn' tit?
2020-01-06T12:30:10 < dongs> i guess its just japan
2020-01-06T12:30:15 < dongs> .. streaming what?
2020-01-06T12:30:24 < dongs> my tv doesnt stream anything
2020-01-06T12:30:38 < dongs> and no 100mbit is not enough for anything useful
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2020-01-06T12:31:19 < karlp> I'd be perfectly content with functional apps on the tv instead of having kodi+androidtv on yet another set top box
2020-01-06T12:31:33 < karlp> I _had_ a functional youtube app ont he tv, but it wenta way in an "update"
2020-01-06T12:31:39 < dongs> nice
2020-01-06T12:31:42 < dongs> must have been non-legit
2020-01-06T12:31:44 < dongs> and google nuked it
2020-01-06T12:31:49  * karlp shrugs
2020-01-06T12:31:51 < PaulFertser> lol
2020-01-06T12:31:59 < dongs> a bunch of chink boxes were doing unofficial youtube api or whatever
2020-01-06T12:32:04 < dongs> and google killed htem all off
2020-01-06T12:32:20 < karlp> well, this was a tcl tv, so wouldn't really have expected that sort of thing, just the general, "fuck the consumer" sort of shit I guess.
2020-01-06T12:45:35 < dongs> well looks ilke that coreshitlec is supposedly better amlogic support. ill give it a try later when I give more fucks
2020-01-06T12:45:50 < dongs> i just hate having to drag out usb keyboard to type in share name/password/ip
2020-01-06T12:46:13 < dongs> notr that i have any complaints about current support..
2020-01-06T12:46:16 < dongs> it works
2020-01-06T12:48:48 < PaulFertser> Can't you control it with android app or something?
2020-01-06T12:51:52 < dongs> no idea
2020-01-06T12:52:39 < dongs> i'd be super shocked if their 'remote' or wahtever app would allow me to add a file share
2020-01-06T12:55:42 < karlp> kodi's web remote control was pretty neat actually.
2020-01-06T13:01:35 < karlp> https://imgur.com/a/akvoTwp
2020-01-06T13:08:05 < englishman> your tv doesn't have hdmi-cec?
2020-01-06T13:10:26 < englishman> pretty sure that even worked on xbox when it was called xbmc
2020-01-06T13:11:45 < karlp> maybe I was just so burnt by badly done cec remotes int he past that I never really tried it?
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2020-01-06T13:45:23 < zyp> dongs, not really making rpi cluster
2020-01-06T13:45:58 < zyp> my intention is for the rpi shit to go in the master (usb host) slot, not the slave slots
2020-01-06T13:46:22 < zyp> but it fits in either so it's possible
2020-01-06T13:46:30 < zyp> not that I see much point
2020-01-06T13:46:52 < zyp> comms will be limited by everything being on the same usb bus
2020-01-06T13:47:18 < zyp> but I guess it could be usable for compile clusters or some shit that needs a bunch of nodes without fast comms
2020-01-06T13:50:40 < jadew> "When you're dead, you don't know you're dead. It's only tough on everyone else. Same when you're stupid."
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2020-01-06T14:10:26 < doomba> jadew: haha yea
2020-01-06T14:10:33 < doomba> is there any vid up about his epstein joke yet?
2020-01-06T14:11:51 < doomba> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ocs9uv--i00
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2020-01-06T14:15:31 < qyx> oh, I forgot
2020-01-06T14:15:40 < qyx> dongs: I have no pi inside
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2020-01-06T14:44:42 < zyp> re: tv apps
2020-01-06T14:45:13 < zyp> I've got an old dumb tv from 2011, plugged in a chromecast, shit just works, no bullshit
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2020-01-06T14:56:49 < dongs> > chromecast
2020-01-06T14:57:03 < dongs> shitty chink CPU with shitty wifi
2020-01-06T14:57:11 < dongs> i guess if your only use is watching jewtube then yeah its great
2020-01-06T14:57:38 < dongs> i still dont understand what is the usecase for chromecast
2020-01-06T14:58:32 < zyp> youtube, netflix, plex, mostly
2020-01-06T14:59:25 < zyp> oh, and I've got some shit that can clone my desktop computer monitor to chromecast too
2020-01-06T15:00:09 < zyp> works well enough to play jackbox, which is all I've used it for
2020-01-06T15:02:04 < zyp> what's great about chromecast is that you don't have to deal with a TV UI
2020-01-06T15:02:45 < zyp> TV UIs are awful, entering text sucks unless you've got a keyboard laying around by the TV
2020-01-06T15:03:12 < zyp> much easier to just search up whatever you want on the phone and push a button to get it on the TV
2020-01-06T15:03:14 < jpa-> if i had a TV at all, i'd probably only use it with chromecast or similar
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2020-01-06T15:08:02 < BrainDamage> I have a media pc, but I only use it for music
2020-01-06T15:08:12 < BrainDamage> and I queue things from phone and laptop
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2020-01-06T15:17:03 < karlp> mpd/mpc? or somethign else?
2020-01-06T15:17:42 < BrainDamage> mopidy
2020-01-06T15:18:01 < BrainDamage> it can play youtube, soundcloud, local filesystem ,etc
2020-01-06T15:18:11 < BrainDamage> and you can use mpd clients or a web interface
2020-01-06T15:19:35 < BrainDamage> it also has bluetooth, so I could connect my phone directly there, but in practice I never use that
2020-01-06T15:24:54 < aandrew> I just spent a fortune on an ipad pro for basically ebooks and videos
2020-01-06T15:25:04 < aandrew> chromecast is awesome though
2020-01-06T15:25:32 < BrainDamage> I have an ebook reader for ebooks
2020-01-06T15:25:45 < aandrew> oh we have kindles etc and they're awesome, but not for huge scanned PDFs
2020-01-06T15:26:03 < aandrew> I have a lot of old textbooks/reference books that fail miserably on any normal ereader
2020-01-06T15:26:15 < BrainDamage> how large is the ipad?
2020-01-06T15:26:27 < aandrew> the smaller of the two
2020-01-06T15:26:30 < aandrew> 11.something?
2020-01-06T15:27:36 < BrainDamage> ah, yeah, my eink reader is only 8
2020-01-06T15:28:28 < englishman> usbC right
2020-01-06T15:28:42 < englishman> aandrew
2020-01-06T15:28:50 < aandrew> yes
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2020-01-06T15:29:03 < englishman> nice
2020-01-06T15:29:10 < aandrew> which is actually kind of nifty, usbc out gets me charge+ethernet+hdmi+usb
2020-01-06T15:29:23 < englishman> and ez usb ssd support
2020-01-06T15:29:25 < aandrew> didn't bother with the pencil/keyboard at this time since like I said, it's primarily a reader for reference material
2020-01-06T15:29:28 < englishman> yeah
2020-01-06T15:29:48 < aandrew> fucking expensive still, but so far none of my apple products have really let me down in any way
2020-01-06T15:29:57 < aandrew> can't say the same for the android tablets/phones I've used
2020-01-06T15:30:26 < BrainDamage> apple gives you that 10% more but makes you pay it 2x more
2020-01-06T15:30:55 < aandrew> something like that yes
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2020-01-06T15:40:58 < englishman> isn't it like $1k
2020-01-06T15:41:16 < englishman> like, not too bad
2020-01-06T15:41:34 < englishman> it only gets to $3k when you add the flip cover and earbuds and shit
2020-01-06T15:42:00 < zyp> I wonder if I could make do with an ipad pro to replace my macbook
2020-01-06T15:42:29 < zyp> I mostly use it for web and ssh, and I figure the ipad could do either
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2020-01-06T16:34:23 < BrainDamage> doomba: https://www.hardkernel.com/shop/odroid-mc1-solo/ might interest you, for 10 bucks it's a steal
2020-01-06T16:34:31 < BrainDamage> and intentionally made to be stacked easily
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2020-01-06T16:36:53 < zyp> nice
2020-01-06T16:37:12 < zyp> looks like a SATA footprint for whatever backplane it was intended for
2020-01-06T16:37:30 < srk> w00t, for $9? :D
2020-01-06T16:37:37 < karlp> those are all being eol'd right?
2020-01-06T16:37:44 < zyp> presumably
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2020-01-06T16:38:29 < zyp> hmm
2020-01-06T16:38:30 < karlp> it's pretty nich though, 
2020-01-06T16:38:34 < zyp> not populated here either: https://www.hardkernel.com/shop/odroid-mc1-my-cluster-one-with-32-cpu-cores-and-8gb-dram/
2020-01-06T16:38:59 < BrainDamage> the sata part i think it comes from https://www.hardkernel.com/shop/odroid-hc2-home-cloud-two/
2020-01-06T16:39:00 < karlp> usb 2 host single port only, only sd card for OS, (or net boot...)
2020-01-06T16:39:35 < zyp> ah
2020-01-06T16:40:29 < BrainDamage> it's pretty much a module for computation, which is not necessarily bad
2020-01-06T16:40:41 < BrainDamage> for instance all my arm boards run headless
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2020-01-06T16:41:24 < zyp> looks cute but annoying to power
2020-01-06T16:41:46 < BrainDamage> yeah, the connector is awkard, they could've gone for another usb port
2020-01-06T16:42:34 < karlp> there's too many people out there who go, "I don'tcare what the manufacturer specs are, I refuse to accept that micro usb is actualyl capable of delivering power"
2020-01-06T16:42:49 < karlp> barrel connector or die!!?!!111!!
2020-01-06T16:43:05 < doomba> BrainDamage: not enough ram
2020-01-06T16:43:14 < Ultrasauce> at least theres those chained barrel connectors for guitar pedals
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2020-01-06T16:43:26 < zyp> I'd rather like to see usb-c, since 5V3A is a baseline feature of it
2020-01-06T16:43:31 < zyp> than micro
2020-01-06T16:44:22 < Ultrasauce> this is pretty tempting at that price point even if the io sucks
2020-01-06T16:45:00 < BrainDamage> bleh, the shipping is min 30 bucks
2020-01-06T16:45:06 < BrainDamage> what the hell
2020-01-06T16:45:25 < karlp> yah, that's hardkernel for you
2020-01-06T16:45:28 < karlp> best korea
2020-01-06T16:46:50 < doomba> BrainDamage: https://i.postimg.cc/J1Nx1XYj/IMG-20200106-094434.jpg https://i.postimg.cc/FmH51b5r/IMG-20200106-094523.jpg
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2020-01-06T16:47:53 < doomba> there's 4 so far. 4 more on the way. and then a final 4 after that.
2020-01-06T16:48:51 < Ultrasauce> oh it's just arm7. no thanks
2020-01-06T16:56:43 < Steffanx> ARMv7.
2020-01-06T17:06:44 < Ultrasauce> its not 1995 so you know what i mean
2020-01-06T17:07:38 < BrainDamage> weird musicspam https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MIgMeyW4TEM
2020-01-06T17:07:59 < Steffanx> Yes mom.
2020-01-06T17:14:09 < karlp> isn't in a biglittle system? aren't they all aarch64?
2020-01-06T17:15:03 < karlp> oh huh, a15+a7,  ok, really old
2020-01-06T17:15:14 < karlp> well, 2014...
2020-01-06T17:22:36 < aandrew> englishman: was $1700 with 512G, applecare and a $50 Speck case. another $25 or $50 for a screen protector
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2020-01-06T19:29:15 < zyp> https://www.reddit.com/r/vexillologycirclejerk/comments/ekjc7e/flag_of_norway/
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2020-01-06T19:30:00 < mawk> I need medical insurance Steffanx 
2020-01-06T19:30:10 < mawk> before the addiction center figures out my french insurance is expired
2020-01-06T19:30:13 < mawk> and kick me out
2020-01-06T19:30:25 < mawk> what's cheap
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2020-01-06T19:32:24 < zyp> are you in the US?
2020-01-06T19:32:24 -!- irf21k [~irf21k@223.186.35.123] has joined ##stm32
2020-01-06T19:33:59 < mawk> in the netherlands
2020-01-06T19:34:00 < jpa-> no, steffieland
2020-01-06T19:34:15 < jpa-> land down under (water)
2020-01-06T19:34:23 < mawk> the flat country
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2020-01-06T19:35:08 < mawk> or is that belgium
2020-01-06T19:35:14 < mawk> le plat pays of Jacques Brel
2020-01-06T19:37:29 < englishman> chuckled irl zyp
2020-01-06T19:39:14 < karlp> cute flag
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2020-01-06T19:49:33 < zyp> mawk, I mean, I knew that, but the question sounds very american
2020-01-06T19:49:48 < mawk> yeah
2020-01-06T19:50:03 < mawk> I was better off in france with healthcare directly paid for in the taxes
2020-01-06T19:50:10 < zyp> didn't know medical insurance was something people in europe had to get
2020-01-06T19:50:22 < mawk> it's mandatory in the netherlands
2020-01-06T19:50:26 < zyp> weird
2020-01-06T19:50:33 < mawk> and delegated to private companies
2020-01-06T19:50:39 < mawk> things are pretty liberal here I guess, in the bad sense of the word
2020-01-06T19:50:48 < mawk> it's like 150€/month
2020-01-06T19:50:54 < mawk> and my meds are not even fully refunded
2020-01-06T19:53:39 < zyp> hmm, I pay like 400€ per month (through taxes)
2020-01-06T19:54:39 < mawk> wow
2020-01-06T19:54:40 < jpa-> 400e per month? that sounds quite a lot
2020-01-06T19:54:43 < mawk> yeah
2020-01-06T19:54:59 < mawk> do you make 8 figures per month zyp ?
2020-01-06T19:56:04 < jpa-> here the part that is labeled as "healt insurance tax" is 2% of income, but of course most of the healthcare system is funded from other taxes
2020-01-06T19:57:44 < qyx> here the minimal health insurance is about 60€/mo
2020-01-06T19:57:52 < qyx> it is mandatory
2020-01-06T19:58:00 < qyx> you can choose the company though
2020-01-06T19:58:08 < qyx> there are 3 available atm
2020-01-06T19:58:49 < qyx> if you are an employee, your employer pays, or the state pays for students, children, etc.
2020-01-06T19:58:57 < qyx> if self employed, you have to pay yourself
2020-01-06T19:59:03 < mawk> all like in france
2020-01-06T19:59:12 < mawk> but not prvate company, the state is doing all of it
2020-01-06T19:59:38 < mawk> and refund almost all necessity meds, even the very rare and expensive 2 million €/dose treatments for orpheline disease
2020-01-06T19:59:39 < qyx> 2 are 100% private here, one is state/private
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2020-01-06T20:01:49 < zyp> well, it's not only health insurance, but also other benefits like unemployment and retirement
2020-01-06T20:02:16 < mawk> yes
2020-01-06T20:03:23 < qyx> the rest (social insurance) is another 150€ here
2020-01-06T20:03:32 < qyx> so about 210€/mo
2020-01-06T20:03:59 < qyx> given the quite different conditions for life in .no and .sk, this surprises me
2020-01-06T20:04:49 < qyx> because 400 vs 210 is not that different
2020-01-06T20:05:40 < zyp> here it's a fixed rate of gross income
2020-01-06T20:05:42 < zyp> 8.2%
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2020-01-06T20:06:48 < jpa-> retirement tax is 25% of income here
2020-01-06T20:07:05 < jpa-> which is ridicuously huge
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2020-01-06T20:10:48 < PaulFertser> In russia the state gets more than 40 % of the money the employer spends on paybills, but people think they're paying just 13 % because that's what's visible in the contract.
2020-01-06T20:11:57 < mawk> in france if you're self employed it's like 25% for retirement/medical and 20% for revenue tax jpa- 
2020-01-06T20:12:15 < mawk> depending on the category, if you're a commercial it's less
2020-01-06T20:12:22 < mawk> but for computing like me it was that
2020-01-06T20:12:36 < mawk> yeah same thing PaulFertser 
2020-01-06T20:12:46 < mawk> the employer share of the tax is hidden
2020-01-06T20:13:29 < qyx> offtopic, kingston micro-SDXC standby current is <1mA
2020-01-06T20:13:37 < qyx> which is exceptionaly low
2020-01-06T20:13:40 < mawk> nice
2020-01-06T20:14:12 < Steffanx> Lol. Im sure they will find out. After the French refuse to pay
2020-01-06T20:14:23 < mawk> lol
2020-01-06T20:14:42 < mawk> they will plant macron's head on a pointy stick
2020-01-06T20:14:48 < Steffanx> But yeah. 150 euro bucks or something it is
2020-01-06T20:14:52 < mawk> révolution
2020-01-06T20:14:55 < mawk> yeah
2020-01-06T20:15:04 < mawk> I'm too poor for that
2020-01-06T20:15:23 < mawk> I wonder what happens if I don't take insurance, will they find out that my french insurance is expired ?
2020-01-06T20:15:24 < Steffanx>  I pay 140
2020-01-06T20:15:28 < mawk> with all the administrative delays and such
2020-01-06T20:15:42 < mawk> or maybe I can keep paying in france and it's cheaper
2020-01-06T20:17:01 < Steffanx> If you dont have it you'll pay for all your care yourself. And they can get you a fine.
2020-01-06T20:17:15 < mawk> :(
2020-01-06T20:17:22 < mawk> why a fine, if I pay myself anyway
2020-01-06T20:17:29 < Steffanx> Good luck to give it a try;)
2020-01-06T20:17:31 < mawk> gouvernement fasciste !
2020-01-06T20:17:34 < zyp> jpa-, starting from 0? not progressive?
2020-01-06T20:18:05 < Steffanx> Because its mandatory.. mawk
2020-01-06T20:18:16 < mawk> that's not good enough of a reason
2020-01-06T20:18:25 < Steffanx> That's the only reason
2020-01-06T20:18:27 < mawk> :(
2020-01-06T20:18:35 < mawk> is 150€ the minimum ?
2020-01-06T20:18:39 < mawk> I'm too poor for that
2020-01-06T20:18:58 < Steffanx> I pay 140, not sure if there are cheaper ones
2020-01-06T20:19:17 < mawk> I have only like 1k€ for the month after rent and gas bill and electricity bill
2020-01-06T20:20:02 < mawk> having a girlfriend is expensive
2020-01-06T20:20:18 < mawk> I shouldn't have picked an apartment that close to ikea
2020-01-06T20:20:35 < Steffanx> Yes, and what about your gf? She needs it too, if she doesnt have the french  studd
2020-01-06T20:20:37 < Steffanx> Stuff
2020-01-06T20:20:44 < mawk> ah, really ?
2020-01-06T20:20:48 < mawk> she's not even registered here
2020-01-06T20:20:53 < mawk> she has her french insurance
2020-01-06T20:20:54 < mawk> free for her
2020-01-06T20:21:00 < Steffanx> Ah
2020-01-06T20:21:05 < Steffanx> Idk how that works
2020-01-06T20:21:12 < jpa-> zyp: yeah, only state income tax is progressive, medical & retirement taxes are fixed percentage
2020-01-06T20:21:18 < mawk> you havz a european insurance card with a number Steffanx 
2020-01-06T20:21:25 < mawk> you pay first then send the bill to the french insurance and get a refund
2020-01-06T20:21:32 < zyp> jpa-, heh
2020-01-06T20:21:36 < mawk> or sometimes you don't pay at all if they have a modern computer system
2020-01-06T20:22:33 < Steffanx> Anyway, it seems you can get a few for ~110 euro bucks too
2020-01-06T20:22:49 < zyp> jpa-, IIRC the insurance tax here starts from 0, but the other income tax is progressive and might go negative
2020-01-06T20:22:58 < mawk> maybe I can get a romanian insurance or something then get the european card
2020-01-06T20:23:19 < zyp> so I don't think you pay any tax in norway before your income pass something like 6-7k EUR
2020-01-06T20:24:59 < jpa-> zyp: yeah, here there is also that kind of relationship between commune-level and state taxes, so income tax is close to zero until ~10kEUR, but medical and retirement taxes are separated from that
2020-01-06T20:25:29 < jpa-> (that is, 10kEUR/year)
2020-01-06T20:26:03 < zyp> hmm
2020-01-06T20:26:23 < zyp> if you earn 54652 NOK, you pay 1 NOK in taxes
2020-01-06T20:26:28 < zyp> any less, 0 in tax
2020-01-06T20:26:39 < Steffanx> What is retirement tax? Tax you pay for others to retire?
2020-01-06T20:26:46 < mawk> yes
2020-01-06T20:26:48 < jpa-> Steffanx: yeah, exactly that
2020-01-06T20:26:51 < mawk> like a pension fund, but everyone is in t
2020-01-06T20:26:58 < mawk> you pay for your and everyone else retirement
2020-01-06T20:27:05 < mawk> in a equitable manner, at least in france
2020-01-06T20:27:40 < mawk> or maybe not so equitable actually, your pension is a fraction of your latest salary or something
2020-01-06T20:27:59 < mawk> but they're changing it currently, and there's a massive strike going on to protest currently
2020-01-06T20:28:13 < Steffanx> If you'll stay in dutchland you wont get that mawk :P
2020-01-06T20:28:27 < mawk> wants to raise the age and decouple the pension from the latest salary, but instead use points that can decrease over the years or  not exactly follow inflation
2020-01-06T20:28:35 < Steffanx> No pension for us
2020-01-06T20:28:37 < mawk> what will I get Steffanx ?
2020-01-06T20:28:41 < mawk> why
2020-01-06T20:28:51 < mawk> my employer is paying pension for e
2020-01-06T20:28:54 < mawk> me
2020-01-06T20:28:57 < jpa-> here we get about 70% of income as pension, and starting from ~70 years old; so if you work 50 years and live 30 years after that, you get back (0.7*30)/(0.25*50) = 168% of what you paid.. which is not that great return over 50 years
2020-01-06T20:29:09 < Steffanx> Yeah. Sure. But they keep increasing the age
2020-01-06T20:29:18 < mawk> :(
2020-01-06T20:29:25 < mawk> we will work as slaves all our lives
2020-01-06T20:29:33 < mawk> better invest in the next bitcoin and get a stash
2020-01-06T20:29:49 < Steffanx> 70 jpa- ? That's quite old
2020-01-06T20:30:06 < jpa-> Steffanx: IIRC it is 68 or something currently for people of my age
2020-01-06T20:30:08 < mawk> starting from 62 here
2020-01-06T20:30:16 < mawk> and 65 for full rate
2020-01-06T20:30:23 < Steffanx> If here is France:P
2020-01-06T20:30:27 < jpa-> current pensioners get off at 65 or something, and it used to be 60
2020-01-06T20:30:28 < mawk> :(
2020-01-06T20:30:45 < zyp> I don't worry so much about pension
2020-01-06T20:30:55 < mawk> you should
2020-01-06T20:30:58 < Steffanx> Me neither. Except that I wont get any :P
2020-01-06T20:31:08 < jpa-> i just pay minimum to state pension and save money for my own life
2020-01-06T20:31:20 < Steffanx> I'll just try to get some money together myself
2020-01-06T20:31:25 < mawk> a
2020-01-06T20:31:25 < jpa-> (which is something i can do because of having own company)
2020-01-06T20:31:31 < mawk> which you invest ?
2020-01-06T20:31:38 < Steffanx> Atm, no
2020-01-06T20:31:40 < mawk> or just keep and let it lose value over inflation
2020-01-06T20:31:48 < zyp> I will have paid off my house by the time I retire, so I'll have pretty low living costs at that point
2020-01-06T20:31:56 < mawk> I see
2020-01-06T20:32:05 < mawk> sometimes house owners have to sell it because they can't pay the land tax
2020-01-06T20:32:07 < jpa-> i have most of my savings invested in stocks
2020-01-06T20:32:09 < mawk> when retired
2020-01-06T20:32:13 < mawk> nice
2020-01-06T20:32:32 < mawk> how many companies ? or your purchased a package and you don't know exactly where
2020-01-06T20:33:20 < jpa-> about half in index funds, and then ~20 companies just because it is more fun to follow individual stocks + it allows a few tax tricks
2020-01-06T20:33:28 < Steffanx> American weapon manufacturers 
2020-01-06T20:33:31 < mawk> lol
2020-01-06T20:34:00 < mawk> for tech indexes ?
2020-01-06T20:34:07 < zyp> mawk, if there's a land tax, it's not like it matters whether you own or rent
2020-01-06T20:34:09 < mawk> or whatever's best
2020-01-06T20:34:21 < mawk> I think land tax is not the right word zyp 
2020-01-06T20:34:27 < jpa-> i have just general index funds
2020-01-06T20:34:28 < mawk> I mean a tax only the owner pays
2020-01-06T20:34:30 < zyp> property tax, it's called here
2020-01-06T20:34:35 < zyp> sure
2020-01-06T20:34:37 < zyp> the owner pays it
2020-01-06T20:34:46 < mawk> yes
2020-01-06T20:34:46 < zyp> and increases the rent to cover it
2020-01-06T20:35:04 < zyp> so you pay it either way, whether directly or indirectly
2020-01-06T20:35:07 < mawk> but I mean if your neighborhood gentrified over time the property tax can exceed a regular rent
2020-01-06T20:35:16 < mawk> or at least represent a pretty large amount of money
2020-01-06T20:35:27 < mawk> and yeah if you rent you can always move out
2020-01-06T20:35:37 < zyp> if you own, you can always sell
2020-01-06T20:35:46 < zyp> assuming anybody wanna buy
2020-01-06T20:36:10 < jpa-> nowadays finland is full of areas where no-one buys houses
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2020-01-06T20:36:45 < Steffanx> I should move to finland
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2020-01-06T20:37:00 < jpa-> Steffanx: remember, biting insects in summer
2020-01-06T20:37:13 < Steffanx> Insects dont like me
2020-01-06T20:37:33 < zyp> I'm in a growing area of norway, I don't think there's any risk of my house being worth less in the future than it is now
2020-01-06T20:37:33 < qyx> invested in socks?
2020-01-06T20:37:55 < qyx> jpa-: why?
2020-01-06T20:38:16 < Steffanx> Not enough sauna mates.
2020-01-06T20:38:39 < Steffanx> Too many bus stop mates
2020-01-06T20:38:47 < jpa-> qyx: why lack of buyers? the rural areas are dying out: no shops, no activities, no workplaces
2020-01-06T20:38:57 < qyx> also, re: pcie obsession, my storage card: I did some maths
2020-01-06T20:39:46 < qyx> if I go with m.2 SSDs, a) linux SoM consumption, pcie switch consumption, SSD consumption, for 4TB I am easily abowe 2W not including the SSDs themselves
2020-01-06T20:40:06 < qyx> m.2 SATA SSDs are the same, pcie switch replaced by pcie->sata bridge, consumption is about the same
2020-01-06T20:40:48 < qyx> if I go with 6 microSD cards over SPI, STM32F750, I am well below 100mW including the cards
2020-01-06T20:40:53 < zyp> I'm not sure what you're doing, but having 4TB of SSD in it sounds pretty crazy
2020-01-06T20:40:54 < jpa-> Steffanx: the rural areas no longer have any bus service either
2020-01-06T20:41:02 < Steffanx> Haha
2020-01-06T20:41:10 < jpa-> Steffanx: and even the bars are closing down, so no drunk mates either
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2020-01-06T20:41:17 < jpa-> it's getting lonely out there
2020-01-06T20:41:24 < qyx> thats great
2020-01-06T20:41:34 < Steffanx> Poor kakimir, jpa- 
2020-01-06T20:41:59 < qyx> zyp: ~half year storage for DAQ
2020-01-06T20:43:49 < qyx> there is also the possiblity of using USB hubs and USB->sata bridges
2020-01-06T20:44:35 < zyp> for something like that I'd probably prefer to go with a hybrid flash+ssd solution, i.e. logging to a low power flash, then waking up a spinning disk now and then to archive the flash contents
2020-01-06T20:44:37 < qyx> or USB->SDIO bridegs
2020-01-06T20:44:52 < qyx> yeah I will have a NOR flash cache
2020-01-06T20:44:55 < zyp> should be much more cost effective than having terabytes of flash
2020-01-06T20:45:18 < zyp> and you don't need to worry about power consumption about a drive that's mostly off
2020-01-06T20:45:26 < qyx> mhm
2020-01-06T20:45:52 < qyx> spinning drives are phasing out though
2020-01-06T20:46:00 < qyx> but it is worth checking
2020-01-06T20:46:05 < zyp> not for large and slow
2020-01-06T20:47:02 < zyp> spinning drives are not going away before SSDs are getting close in price
2020-01-06T20:47:34 < qyx> so 4TB seagate barracuda is ~200€
2020-01-06T20:47:44 < qyx> 4TB of flash is about 400€
2020-01-06T20:48:27 < qyx> (the 2.5" one)
2020-01-06T20:50:36 < zyp> heh, STEA4000407 costs like 120€
2020-01-06T21:00:16 < qyx> does it include the same drive
2020-01-06T21:00:48 < qyx> they are huge
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2020-01-06T21:02:57 < qyx> looks like not feasible, 2.5" spinning drives are about 50€ per TB, nvme/sdxc is about 100€ per TB
2020-01-06T21:03:14 < qyx> and you have to deal with the flash cache
2020-01-06T21:04:25 < qyx> with 100k P/E cycles the flash cache would have to be at least 40MB
2020-01-06T21:05:16 < zyp> sure, I figured the cache would be NAND
2020-01-06T21:05:31 < zyp> as in a sd card or emmc or whatever is power efficient, since that is your goal
2020-01-06T21:05:33 < qyx> nand is even worse because lower P/E cycle count
2020-01-06T21:05:50 < zyp> doesn't matter, it's cheaper per byte-cycle
2020-01-06T21:06:44 < zyp> i.e. what does it matter if you get only a tenth of the cycles if you've got a hundred of the bytes to write before you erase?
2020-01-06T21:07:12 < qyx> for 32GB SD card you will rewrite it 125 times
2020-01-06T21:08:20 < qyx> For Triple-level Cell (TLC), up to 500 write cycles per physical sector.
2020-01-06T21:09:26 < qyx> so ~every day that 32GB card would have to be copied to the spinning disk
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2020-01-06T21:53:35 < qyx> ok it is crazy
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2020-01-06T22:02:04 < Steffanx> is it now?
2020-01-06T22:02:09 < Steffanx> Is qyx ok? Do you know?
2020-01-06T22:09:12 < qyx> no, I was joking
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2020-01-06T22:54:19 < Cracki> TIL: you visit a food shop about 30-60 minutes before closing. they might have stuff left they aren't gonna sell until closing. you get a bigger serving
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2020-01-06T22:55:45 < Cracki> thx qyx for making me aware of SD card write cycles... we regularly fill SD cards and probably subject them to 10+ TB over their typical lifetime
2020-01-06T22:55:46 < emeryth> Cracki: and if you visit 60 minutes later, you can take it out of the trash for free!
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2020-01-06T22:57:31 < Cracki> wouldn't even know where their trash is. they didn't even have a trash can on my side of the counter... he passed me fresh cut meat to eat right away and I dropped it :S
2020-01-06T22:58:15 < qyx> ok this is the way to go http://g02.a.alicdn.com/kf/HTB1aUbfOFXXXXacXXXXq6xXFXXXL/10-ports-Micro-font-b-SD-b-font-TF-Memory-Card-to-SATA-font-b-SSD.jpg
2020-01-06T22:59:44 < qyx> same here, they use to have ~50% discounts on meat and cheese before closing, up to 90% on bread and some vegetables
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2020-01-06T23:00:52 < Cracki> ye the one place I used to frequent had an 8pm special (closing 11pm) to pull the late crowd from surrounding shops
2020-01-06T23:01:11 < Cracki> didn't makte the servings larger tho :>
2020-01-06T23:02:27 < aandrew> Wow Altium over RDP on this thing is actually usable in a pinch
2020-01-06T23:10:57 < Cracki> are you terminalservering?
2020-01-06T23:11:31 < karlp> wooee, usb5807 (usb3 hub) lets you do "port split" so you can have _one_ "port" be 1x3.1 (only) port _and_ 1x2.0 (only) port at the same time
2020-01-06T23:11:38 < Cracki> rdp is quite nice. I'll have to check if it still disables all gpu acceleration when connected... win7 used to do that, which sucks for remote video "editing"
2020-01-06T23:11:39 < karlp> "This feature operates outside of the provisions of the USB specifications"
2020-01-06T23:12:58 < zyp> karlp, considering usb2 and usb3 are more or less independent things, that makes sense enough
2020-01-06T23:13:41 < karlp> yeah, I get it, and it's certainly neat for some embedded stuff
2020-01-06T23:13:54 < karlp> might be common, just haven't looked at usb3 hubs much
2020-01-06T23:14:17 < zyp> IIRC the first usb3 hubs tended to be two independent hub chips inside
2020-01-06T23:14:23 < zyp> one for usb2 and one for usb3
2020-01-06T23:14:42 < karlp> and later it wsa two independent hub chiups, just in the same ic packaging :)
2020-01-06T23:15:08 < zyp> it's a bit surprising they didn't do anything like a SS-HS translator
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2020-01-06T23:32:08 < invzim> pros..
2020-01-06T23:32:33 < invzim> https://drive.google.com/file/d/1mTb1XSkL9amR_KTMSrIn5t3sXdPpEj-6/view
2020-01-06T23:32:50 < invzim> I think I got the footprint right, but does this look a little tight for production?
2020-01-06T23:34:40 < invzim> FH34SRJ-30S-0.5SH(50), https://datasheet.octopart.com/FH34SRJ-30S-0.5SH%2850%29-Hirose-datasheet-12516882.pdf
2020-01-06T23:36:33 < zyp> what do you mean? photo looks correct to me
2020-01-06T23:37:42 < zyp> also wtf is up with the silkscreen
2020-01-06T23:38:04 < invzim> Think I would like to increase the the pads in Y direction a bit
2020-01-06T23:38:12 < zyp> is it as terrible as it looks, or is it just reflections making it look awful?
2020-01-06T23:38:14 < invzim> it's high quality JLPCB :)
2020-01-06T23:38:43 < invzim> it's just a proto, 7mil/30mil stroke font
2020-01-06T23:38:50 < zyp> ser ut som melisglasur
2020-01-06T23:38:55 < karlp> fuckin sexy errata: "Internal POR circuit does not function"
2020-01-06T23:39:07 < invzim> karlp: let me guess, TI?
2020-01-06T23:39:11 < karlp> microchip
2020-01-06T23:39:16 < karlp> well, smsc most likely.
2020-01-06T23:39:19 < invzim> my second choice :)
2020-01-06T23:39:45 < zyp> karlp, which?
2020-01-06T23:39:49 < karlp> the headline makes it sound worse really, it says it might not trigger if the power supply dips down while ramping up.
2020-01-06T23:39:51 < karlp> usb2517
2020-01-06T23:40:04 < zyp> yeah, I thought I read that
2020-01-06T23:43:35 < zyp> karlp, what was the power solution you were planning to use? IIRC some higher voltage bus with a stepdown?
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2020-01-06T23:51:35 < Cracki> https://twitter.com/xRayADay/status/1214230146116243456
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2020-01-06T23:52:23 < karlp> for the insane hub project? or what?
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2020-01-06T23:52:49 < karlp> probably 12V screw/barrel ?
2020-01-06T23:52:55 < karlp> so many fucking options on power,
2020-01-06T23:53:07 < karlp> might even have a usb micro "power only" option
2020-01-06T23:53:55 < karlp> upstream port, 3 twinned "DUT" ports and 1 downstream stacking/cascading port, and then "flexible power options" on the back side
2020-01-06T23:54:15 < karlp> currently trying for force myuself to move it forward rather than reading a book or watching tv, both of which I kinda want to do more :)
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2020-01-07T00:09:29 < qyx> werent there chips emulating usb2 host controller over usb3 interface?
2020-01-07T00:10:49 < karlp> someone said a few weeks ago they'd foudn one, yeah,
2020-01-07T00:10:54 < karlp> but they never really became common I guess.
2020-01-07T00:14:59 < qyx> heh https://i.imgur.com/lWbiCeO.png
2020-01-07T00:15:31 < qyx> so they are unable to reset because VDD is probably back-fed through the flash or whatever
2020-01-07T00:15:44 < qyx> bullshit
2020-01-07T00:16:28 < qyx> also is there any particular reason to use PNP instead of P-MOS?
2020-01-07T00:17:10 < Cracki> current proportional, not voltage proportional?
2020-01-07T00:18:00 < zyp> karlp, or you could design a USB2514 board that fits my USB2517 backplane :)
2020-01-07T00:18:54 < karlp> how would that help? :)
2020-01-07T00:19:25 < karlp> looks like I can do everything via pin straps _except_ having a serial number
2020-01-07T00:20:00 < qyx> Cracki: I mean in this case
2020-01-07T00:20:07 < karlp> usb tree addresses _work_ but... not as sexy
2020-01-07T00:20:07 < zyp> you want a hub with many ports, I have a backplane with six B-slots, put a 4-port hub in each slot and you've got a 24-port hub
2020-01-07T00:20:24 < Cracki> not sure either
2020-01-07T00:20:45 < karlp> zyp: using your thing for my work is wayyyy more complicated :)
2020-01-07T00:21:05 < qyx> is karlp doing a 24 port hub
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2020-01-07T00:21:20 < zyp> karlp is doing a chainable 7-port hub
2020-01-07T00:21:23 < zyp> or something like that
2020-01-07T00:21:41 < Cracki> bjts can switch faster than mosfets, says the internet
2020-01-07T00:22:27 < karlp> 6 "user ports" in pairs, explicitly designed for a usb dut and a usb programming/debug dongle, an upstream port and a downstream port to cascade,
2020-01-07T00:22:27 < Cracki> *shrug* https://electronics.stackexchange.com/questions/256045/why-to-use-a-bjt-transistor-instead-of-mosfet
2020-01-07T00:22:38 < karlp> bandwidth not really being the requirement here,
2020-01-07T00:23:00 < qyx> heh we were doing something similar in the last work
2020-01-07T00:23:03 < qyx> testing 50 or so DUTs
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2020-01-07T00:23:22 < karlp> yeah, it's kinda autism to build my own hub though, but.... fun for various levels of fun
2020-01-07T00:23:34 < karlp> I should be finished already but often too burnt after work and kids to get anything meaningful done.
2020-01-07T00:23:59 < Steffanx> Autismate.
2020-01-07T00:24:09 < qyx> mini-qyx is finally asleep, I may flush my head and start to
2020-01-07T00:24:18 < qyx> yeah starto to autism
2020-01-07T00:24:40 < zyp> I'm still waiting for my daughter to fall asleep so I can get some work done
2020-01-07T00:24:50 < qyx> you are waiting?
2020-01-07T00:25:39 < zyp> yeah, it's impossible to get anything done if I get interrupted and have to run downstairs every few minutes
2020-01-07T00:25:57 < Steffanx> Have to?
2020-01-07T00:26:03 < doomba> Autismate? sounds like a coffee brand name.
2020-01-07T00:26:47 < zyp> Steffanx, you try focusing on something with a screaming kid in the background
2020-01-07T00:27:19 < qyx> hence I was curious how you are waiting :>
2020-01-07T00:27:31 < Steffanx> Yeah. Noise Cancelling headphone and some music. Zyp :p
2020-01-07T00:28:03 < zyp> I'm considering getting myself a pair of qc35ii soon :p
2020-01-07T00:28:24 < Steffanx> There this kids playground in front of the house. Those kids are annoying enough
2020-01-07T00:29:02 < Steffanx> There is*
2020-01-07T00:29:23 < doomba> is all of that transhumanist dystopia bullshit IN the headphones or do you need an app for it?
2020-01-07T00:29:44 < Steffanx> It's all in it.
2020-01-07T00:29:47 < zyp> qyx, put kid to bed, kid's happy for a few minutes and either falls asleep or decides she wants attention, then she's happy for a few minutes again and it repeats until she falls asleep
2020-01-07T00:29:54 < doomba> yea screw that. i wouldn't pay $350 for headphones anyway lol
2020-01-07T00:30:02 < Steffanx> Haha. I did.
2020-01-07T00:30:08 < Steffanx> Sony much.
2020-01-07T00:30:15 < BrainDamage> noise cancelling headphones only work for stationary noises
2020-01-07T00:30:21 < BrainDamage> voices etc tend to go through
2020-01-07T00:30:33 < Steffanx> Yeah indeed. That's why I have the music on as well
2020-01-07T00:30:37 < doomba> yea i'll keep my mdr-v7506s
2020-01-07T00:30:39 < effractur> still 100% worth it
2020-01-07T00:30:49 < zyp> well, I'm mostly considering getting it for travelling
2020-01-07T00:31:01 < BrainDamage> sure, just won't protect him from his kid's scream
2020-01-07T00:31:05 < effractur> on planes /trains it is amazing
2020-01-07T00:31:11 < BrainDamage> they are fantastic for trains, etc
2020-01-07T00:31:32 < Steffanx> Yeah just music loud enough is enough for kids screeming
2020-01-07T00:31:32 < doomba> you need situational awareness on trains/busses/wherever in the US tho
2020-01-07T00:31:35 < Steffanx> Screaming
2020-01-07T00:31:43 < doomba> so you don't get jacked or kidnapped by ICE
2020-01-07T00:31:50 < Steffanx> Is it bad?
2020-01-07T00:32:09 < doomba> public transpo in the US is sketchy af
2020-01-07T00:32:11 < Steffanx> If I only knew what "ICE" means
2020-01-07T00:32:31 < doomba> though the gov cracked down on it
2020-01-07T00:32:31 < qyx> zyp: here it is like: put him to be, it is unhappy
2020-01-07T00:33:02 < doomba> a lot of scheming going on w/greyhound
2020-01-07T00:33:08 < qyx> fukit
2020-01-07T00:33:15 < qyx> *him to bed, he is unhappy
2020-01-07T00:33:16 < doomba> you have to be super vigilant. there's no time for snoozing with noise cancelling headphones
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2020-01-07T00:39:38 < qyx> why kicad https://i.imgur.com/nW4xFm0.png
2020-01-07T00:41:16 < zyp> that looks…
2020-01-07T00:41:21 < zyp> nice?
2020-01-07T00:41:54 < zyp> you've got one of the ground symbols at least
2020-01-07T00:42:10 < qyx> thats because I resolved it
2020-01-07T00:42:28 < qyx> I copied part of the schematic from another project
2020-01-07T00:42:52 < qyx> and all the symbols were referenced to the rescue lib of that project
2020-01-07T00:42:59 < qyx> for whatever reson
2020-01-07T00:44:33 < qyx> ok, git reset --hard, reopen, confirm rescue
2020-01-07T00:51:09 < antto> work --hard; party --hard; crash --hard; reset --hard;
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2020-01-07T00:53:17 < veverak> work --hard;
2020-01-07T00:53:20 < veverak> do not be greedy
2020-01-07T00:55:17 < qyx> ve-ve-ve.vevericka
2020-01-07T00:59:00 < dongs> https://imgaz3.staticbg.com/thumb/gallery/oaupload/ser1/banggood/images/EA/EA/2d739645-4668-4032-8742-8a18a0c93e4b.jpg
2020-01-07T00:59:12 < dongs> 'tactical antenna'
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2020-01-07T01:41:18 < englishman> how much you wanna bet there's a 1" long helical inside
2020-01-07T01:43:16 < doomba> that's some serious whacker shit rite there
2020-01-07T01:43:38 < doomba> needs a lightbar on top though
2020-01-07T01:46:21 < englishman> Illuminati brand illuminated antennas
2020-01-07T01:51:49 < zyp> turns out kid is teething
2020-01-07T01:51:54 < zyp> finally fell asleep
2020-01-07T01:53:12 < englishman> should I go to embedded world
2020-01-07T01:54:27 < englishman> what are some other similar conferences
2020-01-07T01:54:40 < englishman> dono if I can ask work to send me to ccc
2020-01-07T01:55:08 < qyx> haha same here 2min ago
2020-01-07T01:55:40 < englishman> you have a kid too qyx?
2020-01-07T01:56:10 < zyp> yeah, this is like ##parents32 now
2020-01-07T01:56:15 < qyx> heh
2020-01-07T01:56:27 < englishman> will tectu chat more or less after 3 rugrats
2020-01-07T02:06:09 < invzim> yay, my oled ffc stuff worked.  With mirrored/upside down whatnot pinout I was kind of expecting a bug :)
2020-01-07T02:06:33 < dongs> https://datasheet.lcsc.com/szlcsc/1808031910_X-Powers-Tech-AXP221_C81850.pdf god damn chinks
2020-01-07T02:07:10 < invzim> mine usually sleeps like a rock, thank god
2020-01-07T02:08:09 < zyp> my kid has been sleeping through the night since 1mo old so that's not the problem, it's just the falling asleep part that can be a challenge
2020-01-07T02:09:37 < zyp> dongs, what about it? shit does everything and costs nothing or what?
2020-01-07T02:10:05 < invzim> I go through the check-list, and if she still doesn't sleep we just leave her alone for a few minutes - then it's usually quiet.  Breaks the mothers heart, but she doesn't argue with the result :)
2020-01-07T02:11:05 < dongs> zyp, exactly
2020-01-07T02:11:07 < dongs> $0.80 part
2020-01-07T02:11:14 < zyp> nice
2020-01-07T02:11:20 < dongs> 5 DC/DC, 3 LDO, switching lipo charger, lipo gauge
2020-01-07T02:11:34 < dongs> even if you only need liek 2 DC/DC and one LDO you're already winning
2020-01-07T02:11:46 < dongs> all teh dc/dc shit is adjustable over i2c
2020-01-07T02:11:49 < dongs> voltages i mean
2020-01-07T02:12:09 < zyp> yeah, I see there's no feedback divider shit
2020-01-07T02:12:40 < invzim> found an english version of that datasheet?
2020-01-07T02:13:26 < dongs> 0.7-3.3V in 100mV steps for LDOs, 0.6-1.5-2.5V for DCDCs with 20-50mv/step
2020-01-07T02:13:41 < invzim> x-power, a sister company of allwinner - must be good then ;)
2020-01-07T02:13:59 < dongs> yeah it looks like a newer version that those cheap chink allwhiner boards used
2020-01-07T02:17:25 < zyp> but if voltages are configured over i2c, how do you bootstrap it?
2020-01-07T02:17:45 < zyp> I assume there's no internal eeprom to keep the settings
2020-01-07T02:17:47 < zyp> or are there?
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2020-01-07T02:19:06 < qyx> they start at their max
2020-01-07T02:19:13 < qyx> you have to be fast enough
2020-01-07T02:19:23 < qyx> to boot before it nurns
2020-01-07T02:19:23 < zyp> ha :)
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2020-01-07T02:20:39 < zyp> oh, I guess 9.4 might be initial settings?
2020-01-07T02:21:40 < dongs> DC/DC starts at 3.3V and 1.1V for the rest
2020-01-07T02:21:48 < dongs> LDOs are like 1.8/3.3 and of for the rest
2020-01-07T02:21:59 < zyp> looks like 3.0 to me
2020-01-07T02:22:16 < zyp> and one that can be configured for 1.2, 1.35 or 1.5
2020-01-07T02:22:34 < dongs> 3.0 is 'rtc-ldo'
2020-01-07T02:22:39 < dongs> oh, right
2020-01-07T02:22:50 < dongs> yeah sorry misread.
2020-01-07T02:22:51 < dongs> 3.0 for ldo
2020-01-07T02:23:44 < dongs> damn even dc/dc frequency is configurable
2020-01-07T02:23:51 < dongs> best china
2020-01-07T02:25:21 < zyp> speaking of dcdc, did you see the stuff I were talking about last week? what do you think about RT5715?
2020-01-07T02:27:23 < zyp> looks decent as a 5V input regulator; small inductor and few other parts
2020-01-07T02:27:55 < zyp> and you can ghetto power sequencing by chaning pgood/en
2020-01-07T02:28:54 < dongs> hm well its in china but its 0.45
2020-01-07T02:29:30 < dongs> how about JW5211
2020-01-07T02:29:35 < dongs> its onlt $0.04 :D
2020-01-07T02:29:47 < karlp> thos pmics are cool, but it's still fucking 68 pins
2020-01-07T02:29:52 < karlp> gotta realllly need it.
2020-01-07T02:32:24 < dongs> JW RDSon is kinda garbage
2020-01-07T02:32:27 < dongs> compred to that richtek
2020-01-07T02:32:45 < dongs> looks neat zyp but yeah kinda single vendor thing and while is in china, not very available
2020-01-07T02:33:00 < karlp> If the Vin voltage exceeds 6.85V, IC can turn off
2020-01-07T02:33:02 < karlp> power switch, entering over-voltage protection.
2020-01-07T02:33:07 < karlp> but doesn't say how high it can go over?
2020-01-07T02:33:24 < zyp> absolute maximum rating?
2020-01-07T02:34:40 < zyp> dongs, what counts as «very available»?
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2020-01-07T02:34:53 < dongs> zyp, used in a lot of devices and can be bought
2020-01-07T02:35:15 < dongs> ~18 hits on google = not very available
2020-01-07T02:36:12 < zyp> I figure if it's stocked on lcsc, availability can't be too much of an issue
2020-01-07T02:36:18 < zyp> also stocked on digikey fwiw
2020-01-07T02:36:32 < englishman> karlp, was embedded world useful
2020-01-07T02:36:41 < englishman> what other conferences would you recommend
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2020-01-07T02:40:34 < zyp> dongs, I suspect the issue is simply that it's new, first revision of the datasheet is dated may 2019
2020-01-07T02:41:26 < dongs> makes sense
2020-01-07T02:42:05 < zyp> have you used that JW for anything?
2020-01-07T02:43:25 < dongs> i used SY8088/8089 which is pin compatible. but i can drop either one in there
2020-01-07T02:43:30 < dongs> the price is about same too
2020-01-07T02:43:40 < dongs> which is why I like it, cuz its standard pinout
2020-01-07T02:43:44 < karlp> englishman: hrm, I enjoyed it, but... maybeÐ?
2020-01-07T02:43:52 < karlp> you've got to have a pretty clear idea of what you're looking for.
2020-01-07T02:44:09 < karlp> I didn't do any of the conference stuff, just walking around teh showroom
2020-01-07T02:44:53 < zyp> I thought conferences were to have fun, not to be useful
2020-01-07T02:45:21 < karlp> well, the conference track was much more $$$$
2020-01-07T02:45:30 < englishman> one of those things had to be justified to the people paying for it
2020-01-07T02:45:36 < karlp> and looked a lot like "here's a vendor doign training on their toolsets or products"
2020-01-07T02:45:45 < karlp> we went to go and try and find some vendors for a few things,
2020-01-07T02:45:47 < englishman> vendor training is legit tho
2020-01-07T02:45:47 < karlp> went ok.
2020-01-07T02:45:57 < karlp> totally, I just have no insight into what it was like
2020-01-07T02:46:11 < karlp> and it's an "equally" big part of embedded world
2020-01-07T02:46:11 < zyp> dongs, that's a fair point, I guess it's harder to find a matching footprint for dfn than sot parts
2020-01-07T02:46:14 < karlp> I've only been once though
2020-01-07T02:46:32 < karlp> wear good shoes?
2020-01-07T02:46:54 < englishman> way ahead of you there
2020-01-07T02:47:08 < zyp> why would you ever wear bad shoes?
2020-01-07T02:47:25 < karlp> some people in the industry aren't used to being on their feet much? :)
2020-01-07T02:47:42 < englishman> I'd like to go to laser world of photonics 2020
2020-01-07T02:47:49 < Thorn> T - 90 min https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HwyXo6T7jC4
2020-01-07T02:48:01 < zyp> karlp, bad reason
2020-01-07T02:48:15 < zyp> if you need shoes at all, get good shoes
2020-01-07T02:48:58 < englishman> I got some new reiker today
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2020-01-07T02:50:53 < zyp> I think all my current shoes are ecco, if you don't count bike shoes
2020-01-07T02:51:13 < englishman> Hmm I see those a lot
2020-01-07T02:53:40 < zyp> I found my current pair of shoes one time I was killing time at the mall waiting for the wife or something
2020-01-07T02:56:52 < zyp> they had some shoes on display out by the entrance that looked like the sort I'd buy, so I tried them on
2020-01-07T02:57:12 < zyp> «fuck, they're comfortable, but I weren't planning on spending money on new shoes today»
2020-01-07T02:58:31 < zyp> so I didn't buy them, but after I got home I decided I wanted them after all, so I went online and ordered the same kind
2020-01-07T03:02:42 < dongs> i wonder how much better i7-1065G7 is at altium
2020-01-07T03:02:52 < dongs> than fucking UHD420 thing that intel didnt update for 10 years
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2020-01-07T03:03:40 < zyp> I hope you got one of those gaming monitors so you can get 144fps in altium
2020-01-07T03:04:10 < dongs> Lol
2020-01-07T03:04:29 < zyp> hey, speaking of monitors, I found out that that shitty phone I were ranting about the other day is even shittier
2020-01-07T03:05:48 < zyp> I tried streaming a video on it yesterday and when I tilted it sideways I realized the LCD is a fucking TN panel or some shit, it's completely impossible to see correct colors with both eyes when holding it horizontally
2020-01-07T03:06:39 < dongs> nice
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2020-01-07T03:07:38 < zyp> I didn't know they made non-IPS phone displays, I thought they were all IPS partly to avoid discoloring when touching it
2020-01-07T03:08:36 < zyp> hmm
2020-01-07T03:09:02 < zyp> it's more rigid than a traditional TN monitor panel, but it does indeed turn weird if I press it hard
2020-01-07T03:10:12 < dongs> how much was this shit, like tree fiddy?
2020-01-07T03:10:27 < zyp> dunno, it's a motorola moto c
2020-01-07T03:10:57 < dongs> TFT capacitive touchscreen, 16M colors
2020-01-07T03:10:57 < dongs> Size	5.0 inches, 68.9 cm2 (~64.3% screen-to-body ratio)
2020-01-07T03:10:58 < dongs> Resolution	480 x 854 pixels, 16:9 ratio (~196 ppi density)
2020-01-07T03:11:00 < dongs> absolute shit-tier
2020-01-07T03:11:05 < dongs> and yes not IPS
2020-01-07T03:11:16 < dongs> TFT like those fucking chink LCDs on STM evalboards
2020-01-07T03:11:36 < zyp> my nexus 5x is still covered by the 5 year warranty-ish thing that norwegian laws entitle me to, so I sent it in for repairs the other day, and the store gave me this piece of shit as a loaner phone
2020-01-07T03:11:40 < dongs> PriceAbout 100 EUR
2020-01-07T03:12:02 < zyp> I started wondering when the guy in the store pulled out the back cover and took out the battery to insert the sim card
2020-01-07T03:12:09 < zyp> «is this shit like ten years old?»
2020-01-07T03:12:24 < dongs> ahaha
2020-01-07T03:13:00 < zyp> it's a fucking 2017 phone that's awful even compared to my old 2012 nexus 4
2020-01-07T03:14:25 < dongs> o lulz its mediatek 
2020-01-07T03:14:25 < zyp> this shit made me so pissed off I ended up ordering a new phone because I don't wanna deal with this until they finish repairing the nexus 5x
2020-01-07T03:14:31 < dongs> like absolute garbage of MT too
2020-01-07T03:14:46 < zyp> yeah, I think they put together the worst of everything to make this
2020-01-07T03:16:19 < englishman> typical after-google Motorola
2020-01-07T03:16:23 < zyp> dongs, what phone would you buy today?
2020-01-07T03:16:33 < dongs> I'm extremely happy with my P30
2020-01-07T03:16:39 < dongs> was a worthwhile upgrade from P20.
2020-01-07T03:16:41 < zyp> huawei?
2020-01-07T03:16:42 < englishman> chinkshit p30 of course
2020-01-07T03:16:43 < dongs> yea
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2020-01-07T03:17:02 < dongs> i heard the new cheap xiaomi isnt bad either but I dont have recent 1st hand experience.
2020-01-07T03:17:02 < zyp> heard their vendor ui shit is awful
2020-01-07T03:17:09 < dongs> my last Mi was Mi4C or wsomeshit
2020-01-07T03:17:37 < zyp> the Xiaomi A2/A3 whatever could have been interesting if they didn't leave out useful shit
2020-01-07T03:17:45 < zyp> like NFC
2020-01-07T03:17:45 < englishman> the mi A2 is a great budget phone and even a good midrange phone
2020-01-07T03:18:08 < dongs> i havent noticd any issues with 'vendor UI' on P30.
2020-01-07T03:18:27 < dongs> it has all the shit I use, it has useful shit like applock
2020-01-07T03:18:34 < dongs> that I thought was standard assdroid stuff but obviously isnt
2020-01-07T03:18:46 < dongs> and you can run like 3 copies of wechat undedr different credentials
2020-01-07T03:18:56 < dongs> with the app clone thing
2020-01-07T03:19:07 < zyp> I mean, nowadays NFC isn't even an exotic feature anymore, now that everybody supports touch payment I use it like daily
2020-01-07T03:19:21 < dongs> NFC doesnt bother me cuz jap NFC isnt supported by anything anyway
2020-01-07T03:20:18 < zyp> haven't jp been doing their own phone touch payment shit for like ten years longer than everybody else?
2020-01-07T03:20:42 < dongs> IC card but yeah
2020-01-07T03:21:09 < zyp> I mean that osaifu-keitai shit or whatever they called it
2020-01-07T03:21:31 < zyp> also mobile suica was a thing, I guess
2020-01-07T03:22:22 < zyp> then again I guess you need a japanese phone for that, and they are probably not very interesting otherwise
2020-01-07T03:23:54 < zyp> I don't have any firsthand experience with huawei, but one of my pals were just telling me he were so fed up with his huawei shit that he were thinking about selling and replacing it
2020-01-07T03:25:16 < zyp> but in general I feel like when vendors are redoing the UI, they're only doing it worse
2020-01-07T03:25:44 < dongs> my usage requirements must be very different from people who complain aboug vendor UI cuz i never had issues.
2020-01-07T03:25:50 < dongs> plain assdroid is fucking garbage
2020-01-07T03:25:53 < dongs> in my opinion
2020-01-07T03:26:02 < englishman> Huawei installed so many listening devices in Nortel's old offices that they couldn't lease the building to anyone else after they went bankrupt due to competition from Huawei
2020-01-07T03:26:16 < dongs> like when I switched to huawei from shitsung, i was shocked to find out shit like bluetooth audio routing and multiclipboard were vendor add-ons
2020-01-07T03:26:51 < dongs> there's still no solution for bluetooth routing but multiclipboard is in gboard now
2020-01-07T03:26:55 < dongs> in a shitty way but better than nothing
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2020-01-07T03:27:40 < zyp> routing?
2020-01-07T03:27:47 < dongs> yeah
2020-01-07T03:27:51 < zyp> routing what?
2020-01-07T03:28:11 < dongs> you can output notifications/etc to phone speaker despite it being connected as audio to car BT for example
2020-01-07T03:28:40 < dongs> on stock assdroid once youre connected, all notifications go to car speakrs, evne if you're listening to say FM radio
2020-01-07T03:28:48 < dongs> (and not listening to 'bluetooth' audio source.
2020-01-07T03:29:00 < dongs> so you dont get any notifications from phone.
2020-01-07T03:29:03 < zyp> ah
2020-01-07T03:29:35 < zyp> wait, really?
2020-01-07T03:29:38 < dongs> yeah.
2020-01-07T03:29:51 < dongs> one way is to go into bluetooth shit and disconenct portable media device and just leave handset connected
2020-01-07T03:30:00 < dongs> then you still get calls and phone will notify but thats still extra work
2020-01-07T03:30:05 < dongs> on samsung its oneclick from notification bar
2020-01-07T03:30:11 < dongs> to route audio to bt or internal speaker.
2020-01-07T03:30:54 < zyp> I would think default would be notifications to internal speaker regardless of where media is being sent
2020-01-07T03:30:55 < englishman> is that what they call smartthings
2020-01-07T03:31:06 < dongs> zyp, you'd fucking think so
2020-01-07T03:31:14 < zyp> but I've never really thought about it, I always keep my phone in vibrate only
2020-01-07T03:32:54 < zyp> I ordered a oneplus, which has this physical switch on the side to switch between sound/vibrate/dnd, and I feel that's kinda pointless since I'll always keep it in vibrate
2020-01-07T03:33:22 < zyp> hope it'll remain there and don't get bumped over in the pocket
2020-01-07T03:46:01 < bitmask> https://toofab.com/2020/01/06/dog-bite-victim-with-pubic-hair-growing-out-of-face-wants-botched-doctors-to-help/
2020-01-07T04:07:36 < Thorn> stream live https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HwyXo6T7jC4
2020-01-07T04:26:54 < Laurenceb> should it be visible from europe?
2020-01-07T04:31:22 < Laurenceb> nah too dark doh
2020-01-07T04:40:56 < dongs> does china make any cheap battery gauge ICs
2020-01-07T04:41:04 < dongs> i dont wanna get gouged (see wat i did there) by Maxim & Co
2020-01-07T04:41:21 < dongs> maybe even better if its charger/monitoring/protection in one chip
2020-01-07T04:42:02 < zyp> wasn't that part of the shit you linked?
2020-01-07T04:42:11 < dongs> lol yeah but
2020-01-07T04:42:25 < dongs> for this application i dont even need dc/dc
2020-01-07T04:42:29 < dongs> or anythign at all
2020-01-07T04:42:32 < dongs> its just directly battery powered
2020-01-07T04:42:47 < zyp> 4.2?
2020-01-07T04:42:53 < zyp> or li primary 3.0?
2020-01-07T04:43:00 < dongs> no, 3.x coincell(s) thing
2020-01-07T04:43:07 < dongs> err
2020-01-07T04:43:41 < dongs> no it nrf52 shit with built in dc/dc
2020-01-07T04:43:47 < dongs> powered by lipo yeah
2020-01-07T04:43:54 < zyp> ah
2020-01-07T04:43:54 < dongs> so need to have charger + protection + gauge abvove that
2020-01-07T04:44:18 < zyp> shit you linked got all that :p
2020-01-07T04:44:29 < dongs> Yep
2020-01-07T04:48:03 < Thorn> can you link it again kthxplz
2020-01-07T04:49:31 < dongs> < dongs> https://datasheet.lcsc.com/szlcsc/1808031910_X-Powers-Tech-AXP221_C81850.pdf god damn chinks
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2020-01-07T04:53:01 < Thorn> wtf is "flash charger"
2020-01-07T04:54:49 < dongs> https://github.com/libusb/libusb/issues/619
2020-01-07T04:54:53 < dongs> fucking niggers just closed that bug
2020-01-07T04:54:54 < dongs> what the fuck
2020-01-07T04:55:10 < dongs> ah, closed by same retard who "suggested" doing something completely useless to "fix" it
2020-01-07T04:57:17 < semikaki> niggers
2020-01-07T04:57:40 < semikaki> do you know what it means
2020-01-07T04:57:45 < semikaki> you need to fix it yourself
2020-01-07T05:04:38 < semikaki> how can bug be fixed if it's not fixed?
2020-01-07T05:04:40 < semikaki> open source?
2020-01-07T05:09:18 < semikaki> "it's not a bug, it's a feature"
2020-01-07T05:09:43 < semikaki> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TSffz_bl6zo musics
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2020-01-07T05:20:48 < Thorn> satellite deployment in < 1 min
2020-01-07T05:23:25 < englishman> dongs: pretty sure 100% of the ti bq series have been cloned by chinese or are otherwise super cheap due to the low fuckin prices offered by chink battery VARs
2020-01-07T05:23:59 < englishman> they are pretty complex hardware so idk if cloning can really compete with the 40c ic prices
2020-01-07T05:25:38 < dongs> englishman: plz show me BQ gauge that was cloned for $0.40
2020-01-07T05:25:42 < dongs> https://www.onsemi.com/products/power-management/battery-management/battery-fuel-gauges/lc709203f this looks nice tho
2020-01-07T05:26:07 < englishman> well im using bq40z50 and they are offering me a complete pcb solution for like $3.5
2020-01-07T05:26:23 < englishman> since the fets are like 0.8 i assume the ic is 0.4
2020-01-07T05:26:49 < dongs> meh overkill for 1S
2020-01-07T05:26:53 < englishman> yes
2020-01-07T05:27:03 < englishman> wtf do you need a bms for 1s
2020-01-07T05:27:09 < dongs> not bms nigger
2020-01-07T05:27:21 < dongs> is till need to charge/protect/measure it
2020-01-07T05:27:38 < englishman> im taking apart this jewish competitor and they are using 1s cuz its cheaper even tho they need fuckin 5a to charge it
2020-01-07T05:27:42 < dongs> these cheap chink chargers look OK. protect I guess nfets and that $0.01 protection IC.
2020-01-07T05:27:47 < dongs> was looking for cheap gauge,.
2020-01-07T05:28:06 < englishman> like a coulomb counter
2020-01-07T05:28:21 < dongs> ooh, i like that wlcsp.
2020-01-07T05:28:25 < dongs> its 9 pin but center pin is actually NC
2020-01-07T05:28:38 < dongs> so you can actually use it.
2020-01-07T05:29:43 < englishman> is there pcb reverse engineering software
2020-01-07T05:29:50 < BrainDamage> depcb
2020-01-07T05:29:52 < dongs> yeah mspaint or some opensores python trash
2020-01-07T05:29:54 < englishman> where i can like take a hires photo and tag components
2020-01-07T05:30:09 < zyp> just put a fet across the battery; when you wanna know state of charge just switch it on and you'll know it's 0%, also once you've discharged all the stored energy it'll be harmless and need no further protection, and you can also drop the charger since it won't take any more charge anyway
2020-01-07T05:30:12 < dongs> Requires gtk+-2.0 and goocanvas
2020-01-07T05:30:26 < dongs> zyp wat
2020-01-07T05:30:31 < dongs> is this copypasta from somewehre
2020-01-07T05:30:38 < BrainDamage> I haven't used it in years
2020-01-07T05:30:52 < zyp> no, I'm just solving all your problems cheaply
2020-01-07T05:31:08 < englishman> BrainDamage: i guess this more high level where i know the technology they are using and would like to analyse cost
2020-01-07T05:31:39 < BrainDamage> so you want a bom price list?
2020-01-07T05:31:58 < englishman> yes
2020-01-07T05:32:54 < BrainDamage> make a csv with the part tags and feed it to https://github.com/xesscorp/KiCost ?
2020-01-07T05:33:13 < BrainDamage> mspaint to tag already added ics
2020-01-07T05:33:18 < englishman> yeah but to make the part tags
2020-01-07T05:33:21 < englishman> mspaint
2020-01-07T05:33:22 < englishman> right
2020-01-07T05:33:25 < englishman> pro irc ee tool
2020-01-07T05:34:04 < BrainDamage> maybe some pdf annotator software that lets you export annotations
2020-01-07T05:34:23 < englishman> hmm yes something like that, that allows annotations
2020-01-07T05:34:24 < BrainDamage> if you can get the annotation list in json,xml, or csv, you can auto process it
2020-01-07T05:34:42 < englishman> exportable annotations
2020-01-07T05:43:35 < BrainDamage> https://stackoverflow.com/questions/1106098/parse-annotations-from-a-pdf
2020-01-07T05:43:52 < BrainDamage> edit that format string to only output the annotation content and you're set
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2020-01-07T05:58:46 < englishman> lunix 2 the rescue
2020-01-07T05:58:49 < englishman> fantastic
2020-01-07T05:59:24 < englishman> 10 years ago
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2020-01-07T06:43:58 < Spirit532> I have a question for the analog people
2020-01-07T06:44:10 < Spirit532> I am using the ADC to read a low-side current shunt of a 3 phase motor drive
2020-01-07T06:44:15 < Spirit532> I get this:
2020-01-07T06:44:15 < Spirit532> https://i.spirit.re/ppsaH.png
2020-01-07T06:44:52 < Spirit532> This is with a single ADC channel, continuous conversion, and 7.5 clock cycle sample time
2020-01-07T06:45:11 < Spirit532> The motor is being PWMed, hence what I'm guessing is the aliasing occurring here.
2020-01-07T06:45:25 < Spirit532> Question: Can this be fixed digitally, and if so, how?
2020-01-07T06:47:01 < Spirit532> I need to get that average line of current
2020-01-07T06:47:08 < Spirit532> The one below all the aliasing and above the sine-looking bits.
2020-01-07T06:48:43 < dongs> you only need to care about ZC, right?
2020-01-07T06:48:47 < Spirit532> ZC?
2020-01-07T06:48:51 < dongs> zero crossing
2020-01-07T06:48:58 < dongs> so just discard shit outside the region you carea bout
2020-01-07T06:48:58 < Spirit532> except that's not *really* a zero crossing
2020-01-07T06:49:06 < Spirit532> if averaged out, it looks wrong
2020-01-07T06:49:35 < Spirit532> that "zero crossing" looking line is the actual average current level going through the motor
2020-01-07T06:49:37 < Spirit532> I /think/
2020-01-07T06:50:35 < BrainDamage> can you upload a capture?
2020-01-07T06:51:46 < Spirit532> one moment
2020-01-07T06:54:27 < Spirit532> https://i.spirit.re/2La1x.txt
2020-01-07T06:54:28 < Spirit532> BrainDamage, ^
2020-01-07T07:00:01 < BrainDamage> Spirit532: like this? https://filebin.net/s2n30d7txgoz4joq/meh.png?t=lsm4hybm
2020-01-07T07:00:21 < Spirit532> yes, except it's a straight line
2020-01-07T07:00:32 < Spirit532> ish.
2020-01-07T07:00:42 < Spirit532> a lot straighter than yours
2020-01-07T07:01:31 < BrainDamage> that was the median of the data
2020-01-07T07:01:58 < Spirit532> yeah, but the issue here is I think there's a bunch of PWM aliasing
2020-01-07T07:03:22 < BrainDamage> https://filebin.net/qigbhz2f0edr8g8q/meh2.png?t=fz0gzob1 previous one was 1000 samples, this is with 2000
2020-01-07T07:03:35 < Spirit532> that's somewhat closer
2020-01-07T07:03:51 < Spirit532> but I can't average 2000 samples
2020-01-07T07:04:26 < Spirit532> unless the ADC does it on its own, but I don't think you can set DMA up to do a circular buffer that way
2020-01-07T07:04:30 < BrainDamage> it's not average, it's median
2020-01-07T07:04:43 < BrainDamage> you keep a buffer of n samples, sorted
2020-01-07T07:04:43 < Spirit532> lagging by 2000 samples is hard
2020-01-07T07:04:57 < Spirit532> yeah, can the DMA controller in an stm32f031 do this?
2020-01-07T07:05:07 < Spirit532> keep it in a circular buffer
2020-01-07T07:05:28 < BrainDamage> that's not how you want to do it
2020-01-07T07:05:41 < BrainDamage> I mean, you can keep a circular buffer
2020-01-07T07:05:55 < Spirit532> so how do I do a median without keeping a buffer?
2020-01-07T07:05:55 < BrainDamage> but you need to do a sorted insertion to be fast
2020-01-07T07:06:19 < BrainDamage> so you don't have to re-sort the array every time
2020-01-07T07:07:01 < BrainDamage> alternatively, you could keep the circular buffer
2020-01-07T07:07:10 < BrainDamage> and have another buffer with index mapping
2020-01-07T07:07:53 < Spirit532> that sounds computationally expensive
2020-01-07T07:08:00 < dongs> why not just ignore samples during commutation
2020-01-07T07:08:04 < dongs> then you dont have dumb spikes
2020-01-07T07:08:09 < dongs> you know when that phase is on or off
2020-01-07T07:08:13 < dongs> measure while its off
2020-01-07T07:08:13 < Spirit532> I don't
2020-01-07T07:08:20 < Spirit532> hardware timer pwm generation
2020-01-07T07:08:47 < dongs> im almost certain there's an interrupt for that.
2020-01-07T07:08:50 < dongs> on TIMx.
2020-01-07T07:09:09 < Spirit532> it's three phase PWM
2020-01-07T07:09:14 < Spirit532> nothing is always off
2020-01-07T07:09:22 < Spirit532> or, something is always on rather
2020-01-07T07:09:28 < dongs> the phase you're measuring is
2020-01-07T07:09:40 < Spirit532> this is a combined shunt
2020-01-07T07:09:51 < Spirit532> sink(1,2,3) -> shunt -> gnd
2020-01-07T07:09:56 < dongs> https://e2e.ti.com/cfs-file/__key/communityserver-discussions-components-files/171/DS0005.bmp
2020-01-07T07:09:59 < dongs> oh
2020-01-07T07:10:00 < dongs> RIP
2020-01-07T07:10:03 < Spirit532> yes
2020-01-07T07:10:06 < BrainDamage> make a log of the activations
2020-01-07T07:10:17 < BrainDamage> and delete aggressively around them
2020-01-07T07:10:22 < Spirit532> what
2020-01-07T07:10:24 < dongs> are you just using it to detect stall/overload?
2020-01-07T07:10:33 < Spirit532> constant current to fight BEMF
2020-01-07T07:10:55 < dongs> sounds kinda like shitty design decision to me
2020-01-07T07:11:07 < dongs> like, if you were gonna bother with shunts, put it on 2 phases and properly measure
2020-01-07T07:11:10 < Spirit532> tell that to literally every servo drive designer ever
2020-01-07T07:11:21 < Spirit532> I'm not using two shunts for MANY reasons that I won't go into
2020-01-07T07:11:44 < Spirit532> thus the constraints are as they are.
2020-01-07T07:18:54 < dongs> STM32F030F4P6   0.169usd/pcs @ 1k
2020-01-07T07:18:56 < dongs> holy shit nice
2020-01-07T07:19:06 < Spirit532> not using it for that reason
2020-01-07T07:19:10 < dongs> why would anyone use ATMEGA328 at this point
2020-01-07T07:19:25 < Spirit532> grandfathering
2020-01-07T07:19:43 < dongs> Spirit532: are you talking to someone
2020-01-07T07:19:51 < dongs> ohsix isnt online
2020-01-07T07:20:04 < Spirit532> https://i.spirit.re/WqxGF.png
2020-01-07T08:15:46 < semikaki> but is f030 good for anything?
2020-01-07T08:16:04 < semikaki> but blinking a led
2020-01-07T08:33:47 < emeb_mac> sure
2020-01-07T08:34:05 < emeb_mac> I did a eurorack oscillator with one
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2020-01-07T08:35:16 < semikaki> why you oscillate eurorack?
2020-01-07T08:35:30 < emeb_mac> for teh muziks
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2020-01-07T11:54:38 < karlp> zyp: I know what you were trying to say, but "good shoes" mean very different things with different constraints.  "I want the best shoes for walking to my car, then sitting down all day" aren't the same "good shoes" as "I'm going to walk around a conference center all day"
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2020-01-07T12:28:23 < dongs> lol............
2020-01-07T12:28:32 < dongs> 2W 433mhz tranceiver next to 2 of my dells
2020-01-07T12:28:39 < dongs> triggers the touch buttons menu on them
2020-01-07T12:28:47 < dongs> wehn trnasmitting
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2020-01-07T13:17:47 < nullkaki> touch buttons lol
2020-01-07T13:28:10 < nullkaki> touching is gay
2020-01-07T13:28:42 < nullkaki> smashing is straight
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2020-01-07T13:29:25 < jpa-> how about docking?
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2020-01-07T13:35:06 < nullkaki> very
2020-01-07T14:16:32 < zyp> karlp, dunno, I see the point for walking shoes, running shoes, biking shoes and such, but I've never really thought about a need for sitting shoes
2020-01-07T14:34:28 < karlp> well, preaching to the choir anyway :)
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2020-01-07T15:18:58 < Steffanx> I heard you no longer have mates to touch you, semikaki  
2020-01-07T15:19:20 < Steffanx> No more sauna mates, no bus stops, no pubs to get drunk.
2020-01-07T15:19:28 < Steffanx> They're all leaving.
2020-01-07T15:19:34 < Steffanx> nullkaki:  
2020-01-07T15:57:18 < karlp> doing some online training coursework for some websoftware, requires exams to continue to next section.
2020-01-07T15:57:32 < karlp> exams are multiple choice, with trap questions, and based on older versions of the webapp.
2020-01-07T15:57:41 < karlp> so I've failed it, and now I can't continue to the next section.
2020-01-07T15:58:09  * karlp can't help but feel this isn't doing a very good job of training me to use the software, but training me to pass some quz questions.
2020-01-07T16:03:57 < Steffanx> Haha. Sounds perfect.
2020-01-07T16:05:06 < BrainDamage> might as well go for a word & excel certificate since you're there
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2020-01-07T16:49:46 < BrainDamage> musicvideospam https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5pgANtzO2G4
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2020-01-07T17:48:16 < bitmask> interesting, I just learned about eproms, crazy that UV light was used to erase them
2020-01-07T17:48:20 < bitmask> yea yea I'm a noob
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2020-01-07T17:49:32 < PaulFertser> Modern flash memory can also be erased with UV. It's just that there's no window to do that anymore.
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2020-01-07T17:51:45 < karlp> we had one or two people do their theses with eproms, mad nutters
2020-01-07T17:52:22 < karlp> hrm, or some of the third year projects.
2020-01-07T17:53:46 < Steffann> Are you 50 years old karlp?
2020-01-07T17:54:14 < bitmask> where is your x? don't you feel naked?
2020-01-07T17:59:37  * emeb feels attacked by Steffann
2020-01-07T18:01:59 < karlp> Steffann: 41 this year.
2020-01-07T18:02:08 < karlp> they were obsolete when they did this yes :)
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2020-01-07T18:03:16 < karlp> we used some eproms in year 2 to show us what we were leaving behind briefly, the lab was being upgraded, but one or two people used windowed pics for some openended stuff.
2020-01-07T18:03:51 < karlp> I used a flash part, fuck using eproms
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2020-01-07T18:06:32 < emeb> Way back when I remember some DIY projects where ppl made digital cameras by popping the lids off of ceramic pkg DRAMS and focusing images onto the exposed die.
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2020-01-07T18:07:30 < emeb> I wonder if you could do that with EPROMs - violate the programming time to write a weak 0 into the array and then expose to an image to discharge...
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2020-01-07T19:30:31 < Cracki> cat scoffs at cardboard https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KSXJwacq54o
2020-01-07T19:37:33 < srk> haha https://blog.arduino.cc/2020/01/07/arduino-goes-pro-at-ces-2020/
2020-01-07T19:40:40 < Cracki> uhhhhh
2020-01-07T19:40:42 < bitmask> so pro
2020-01-07T19:40:50 < Cracki> thanks cookie fuckery
2020-01-07T19:41:24 < Cracki> oh fuck, "one simple platform"
2020-01-07T19:41:26 < bitmask> $100 for that new portenta? jebus
2020-01-07T19:41:47 < Cracki> are they reinventing PLCs?
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2020-01-07T19:42:44 < Steffann> You can have my x, bitmask 
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2020-01-07T19:42:56 < bitmask> no thanks, its dirty
2020-01-07T19:43:57 < srk> like it, it's STM32H7 xD
2020-01-07T19:44:10 < srk> but yeah, $100 is way too much
2020-01-07T19:44:18 < Cracki> > The two cores communicate via a Remote Procedure Call mechanism
2020-01-07T19:44:45 < srk> uuu
2020-01-07T19:45:00 < Cracki> do they not share an address space??
2020-01-07T19:45:19 < Cracki> or is that just the abstraction they choose to give arduino users
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2020-01-07T19:45:21 < srk> they proly do but that would be hard to manage for arduinoist
2020-01-07T19:45:23 < srk> s
2020-01-07T19:46:02 < BrainDamage> i guess it's their way to make it threadsafe
2020-01-07T19:46:19 < Cracki> fair. RPC is message passing but you always get a response message.
2020-01-07T19:46:46 < srk> thread"safe"
2020-01-07T19:46:47 < Cracki> yeah no, arduino users shouldn't get anything more complicated than rpc or messages
2020-01-07T19:47:03 < srk> like there are any threads on arduino :D
2020-01-07T19:47:32 < Cracki> they could have reached for freertos... that has probably been used for multicores before
2020-01-07T19:47:51 < Cracki> it's doing wifi too so that might require realtime handling anyway
2020-01-07T19:48:28 < bitmask> that murata wifi is $13
2020-01-07T19:48:28 < Cracki> cute, 80-pin board to board connectors
2020-01-07T19:48:33 < bitmask> at mouser
2020-01-07T19:48:37 < Cracki> I'm sure they fucked the grid up and it's off by some fraction
2020-01-07T19:48:38 < bitmask> in 1x qty
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2020-01-07T19:50:30 < bitmask> I guess $8.50 is a more realistic number, 
2020-01-07T19:53:00 < englishman> lol srk
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2020-01-07T20:27:43 < srk> dd/win 27
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2020-01-07T21:07:56 < antto> https://i.imgur.com/nuQICXD.jpg
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2020-01-07T21:11:32 < jpa-> antto: that's a big board
2020-01-07T21:11:45 < antto> yeah-ish
2020-01-07T21:12:24 < jpa-> you have quick manufacturing if you finished the design on 2020-01-01 and you already have the pcb
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2020-01-07T21:13:46 < antto> yeah.. submitted the gerb0rz on the afternoon on january 1st, the boards were already in the capital yesterday morning
2020-01-07T21:17:41 < qyx> where did you order
2020-01-07T21:18:47 < antto> allpcb, as usual
2020-01-07T21:24:50 < antto> they sent me one extra board too
2020-01-07T21:25:12 < antto> or someone systematically fails to count to 5 ;P~
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2020-01-07T21:33:52 < machinehum> Don't leave me brainless
2020-01-07T21:34:21 < machinehum> Dude where are your bypass caps?
2020-01-07T21:34:33 < antto> hm?
2020-01-07T21:34:37 < machinehum> nvm I see a couple
2020-01-07T21:34:54 < antto> they are in a box at fedex
2020-01-07T21:34:57 < antto> >:)
2020-01-07T21:35:00 < machinehum> lol
2020-01-07T21:35:20 < antto> somewhere in texas
2020-01-07T21:37:30 < srk> antto: cool labels :) what is it for?
2020-01-07T21:37:57 < antto> https://www.kvraudio.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=180&t=537480
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2020-01-07T21:43:33 < srk> cool
2020-01-07T21:44:11 < srk> I've found my phat dac few days ago, will try to make it synth
2020-01-07T21:44:25 < antto> mmm, phatt
2020-01-07T21:47:39 < srk> STM32 can go up to 32/192 which is the highest that the STM32’s I2S can get (the PCM5102 supports up to 32/384).
2020-01-07T21:47:42 < srk> oO
2020-01-07T21:48:13 < srk> wonder if that holds for more recent ones than F4
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2020-01-07T21:49:50 < antto> in my case 96kHz should be gud enough for me
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2020-01-07T21:52:27 < srk> is there a way to somehow timestamp i2s frames? for ADC SDR
2020-01-07T21:52:37 < Steffanx> You still didnt send me a sample of your the awesome sounds you generated so far antto
2020-01-07T21:52:47 < srk> like from gps+pps source 
2020-01-07T21:52:55 < antto> Steffanx sounds from what?
2020-01-07T21:53:08 < antto> this is a nekkid board right now
2020-01-07T21:53:16 < antto> srk SDR?
2020-01-07T21:53:29 < Steffanx> your awesome music generators. I kinda assumed you did some music generation before antto
2020-01-07T21:53:45 < antto> yes, i got a bunch of synths and effects i've made
2020-01-07T21:53:49 < srk> yeah, using some wolfson 192khz adc
2020-01-07T21:53:55 < antto> but as PC software
2020-01-07T21:53:59 < srk> antto: software defined radi
2020-01-07T21:54:00 < srk> o
2020-01-07T21:54:05 < antto> oh
2020-01-07T21:54:24 < antto> no idea about any of that sh*t
2020-01-07T21:54:31 < srk> antto: do you do vcvrack? :)
2020-01-07T21:54:40 < antto> that sounds familiar
2020-01-07T21:58:12 < antto> Steffanx the bass and "lead" are one of my synths here: http://antonsavov.net/tmp/vb404_something002.mp3
2020-01-07T21:58:32 < Steffanx> ah :)
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2020-01-07T22:03:27 < antto> Steffanx https://soundcloud.com/antto/antto-sr-8050_blah most synths here are mine (i think everything minus that simple boring square "beep"
2020-01-07T22:04:18 < Steffanx> Cool :)
2020-01-07T22:05:46 < antto> hm, and probably the compressor too
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2020-01-07T22:12:31 < antto> Steffanx either both or at least just the fancier bass (towards the middle) and the lead here are also mine: http://antonsavov.net/tmp/ifsiasg02.mp3
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2020-01-07T22:15:56 < Cracki> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=67FzgaSWDDw
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2020-01-07T22:17:49 < Steffanx> Doesnt even sound too bad antto. Cool :)
2020-01-07T22:20:40 < antto> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hww1Nl-1ru8 <- this is one of my synths, it haz changing colorz
2020-01-07T22:23:33 < con3|2> hmm...
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2020-01-07T22:24:33  * con3 figures out how to buiild a pure sinewave inverter
2020-01-07T22:30:36 < Laurenceb> based magapede
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2020-01-07T23:31:17 < antto> close ups on teh board: https://i.imgur.com/O6EqmPZ.jpg
2020-01-07T23:35:11 < Cracki> what if I told you I see a short
2020-01-07T23:36:44 < antto> i think i saw something that looks like a short too
2020-01-07T23:36:54 < antto> on the bottom pinz of the TQFP
2020-01-07T23:37:45 < Cracki> I don't see a short :>
2020-01-07T23:37:56 < Steffanx> Dont scare poor antto
2020-01-07T23:38:54 < Cracki> you mean that little bit of dust in the center right of the bottom?
2020-01-07T23:39:07 < Cracki> they all look good otherwise
2020-01-07T23:39:29 < antto> i suspect it's dust, but who knows
2020-01-07T23:39:55 < Cracki> alcohol solves many problems
2020-01-07T23:40:24 < antto> i won't have the parts before another 7 days >:/
2020-01-07T23:40:29 < antto> bluh
2020-01-07T23:40:32 < Cracki> you don't have any metal filings flying around that would warrant a DIY laminar flow clean room box
2020-01-07T23:40:50 < antto> uhm
2020-01-07T23:41:54 < antto> i've soldered 0.5mm pitch TQFPs on boards from allpcb before, not 100 pin ones but 48 pin ones
2020-01-07T23:42:15 < antto> like over 50 at least, and i've not had issues on them
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2020-01-07T23:54:32 < Ultrasauce> why the through hole xtal?
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--- Day changed Wed Jan 08 2020
2020-01-08T00:01:37 < qyx> con3: some transformers, transistors and STM32G4
2020-01-08T00:01:42 < qyx> and stuff
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2020-01-08T02:19:50 < Laurenceb> https://twitter.com/spectatorindex/status/1214693513817817094
2020-01-08T02:19:52 < Laurenceb> based
2020-01-08T02:22:13 < antto> Ultrasauce why not
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2020-01-08T02:24:42 < antto> it might be possible to get away with just 12MHz, but at worst case imma need the fancy 24.576MHz
2020-01-08T02:25:08 < antto> and i think i decided to go with a THT one for that
2020-01-08T02:36:31 < Laurenceb> pray for dead sharticans
2020-01-08T02:37:37 < Laurenceb> ints happening .gif
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2020-01-08T02:42:55 < Laurenceb> REMEMBER: EVERY TIME YOU BRAP ITS ANOTHER MISSILE LAUNCHED AT SHARTICANS
2020-01-08T02:44:31 < cyb3rtruck> muricans are chilling in those bases right now playing ps4. no missiles whatesoever.
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2020-01-08T03:17:10 < dongs> i cant fucking stand the new google search results styling
2020-01-08T03:18:16 < catphish> mine looks the same
2020-01-08T03:18:26 < catphish> or maybe i'm just used to it already
2020-01-08T03:19:10 < dongs> https://i.imgur.com/QAHEajR.png
2020-01-08T03:20:07 < catphish> https://i.imgur.com/iagFHk8.png
2020-01-08T03:20:17 < dongs> yeah thats the normal thing
2020-01-08T03:20:25 < dongs> i get that if I search in not-logged-in window
2020-01-08T03:20:36 < dongs> the new shit looks fucking awfulo
2020-01-08T03:20:44 < dongs> zero contrast, bullshit fucking favicons I dont need
2020-01-08T03:20:46 < catphish> yeah i'm not logged in right now
2020-01-08T03:20:49 < dongs> link/title moved around
2020-01-08T03:20:51 < catphish> i like the old one
2020-01-08T03:20:59 < dongs> even more attempts at completely hiding the url etc
2020-01-08T03:21:03 < catphish> they were threatening to remove URLs from the view
2020-01-08T03:21:06 < catphish> but i guess they didn't
2020-01-08T03:21:16 < dongs> they're already more or less gone anyway
2020-01-08T03:21:21 < dongs> haven't been a real "url" in a while
2020-01-08T03:21:27 < dongs> replace / with those >> s or wahetver
2020-01-08T03:21:30 < catphish> well, it has the domain at least
2020-01-08T03:21:45 < dongs> right
2020-01-08T03:21:47 < catphish> but yeah, weird that they obfuscate it
2020-01-08T03:22:01 < dongs> im trying to look through tehur dumb fucking forums
2020-01-08T03:22:04 < dongs> why tehre isnt outrage
2020-01-08T03:22:10 < dongs> i guess people in 2020 just dont give fucks at all
2020-01-08T03:22:19 < catphish> i know i don't
2020-01-08T03:22:31 < catphish> it still works, i dont give shits what it looks like
2020-01-08T03:22:35 < Laurenceb> google is all going to shit
2020-01-08T03:22:47 < Laurenceb> like openstreetmap utterly btfo's google maps now
2020-01-08T03:22:52 < dongs> https://support.google.com/websearch/thread/16145368?hl=en
2020-01-08T03:22:56 < dongs> oh its been a thing for motnhs now
2020-01-08T03:23:25 < Laurenceb> BREAKING: Donald Trump has just called the Iranian Prime Minister a Paki on twitter.
2020-01-08T03:23:51 < Laurenceb> google maps hasnt been able to draw uk motorways without random gaps for months
2020-01-08T03:25:05 < catphish> i do like OSM lately, especially for anything non-road
2020-01-08T03:25:20 < catphish> but... google still wins at navigation by miles
2020-01-08T03:25:27 < dongs> not in japan
2020-01-08T03:25:33 < dongs> maps navigation in japan is trash
2020-01-08T03:25:36 < catphish> ie traffic based route planning
2020-01-08T03:25:46 < catphish> it's amazing here in the england
2020-01-08T03:25:51 < dongs> sorry to hear  that.
2020-01-08T03:26:04 < dongs> cuz in japland, traffic data is standard in most car navigation units anyway
2020-01-08T03:26:16 < dongs> and thier route planning is way better than goog
2020-01-08T03:26:22 < dongs> who thinks it will save time going over some 1lane road
2020-01-08T03:26:24 < dongs> just to cut a corner
2020-01-08T03:27:29 < catphish> lol
2020-01-08T03:28:06 < catphish> my car is too cool to have built in satnav
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2020-01-08T04:09:22 < englishman> google removed actual url months ago
2020-01-08T04:09:30 < englishman> switched to duckduckgo tbh
2020-01-08T04:10:06 < englishman> why would you want to drive in traffic?
2020-01-08T04:25:04 < Laurenceb> breaking news
2020-01-08T04:25:12 < Laurenceb> France has surrendered to Iran
2020-01-08T04:27:37 < englishman> ok
2020-01-08T04:44:17 < englishman> stm32f7 and proasic3 in competitor's product (with 63msps adc) why am I stuck with msp430
2020-01-08T04:53:37 < jadew> google maps is kept dumb intentionally so their waze acquisition still makes sense
2020-01-08T04:54:04 < jadew> for example, they show the speed, but they don't show the speed limit
2020-01-08T04:54:39 < jadew> and yes, they do seem to go out of their ways to hide the url
2020-01-08T04:54:44 < jadew> I don't understand why
2020-01-08T04:55:12 < jadew> they do the same with their spyware browser
2020-01-08T04:57:52 < jadew> also Laurenceb, you have to provide links for that stuff because it's difficult to tell if that's really Trump trolling, or just you
2020-01-08T05:06:23 < englishman> in my country, signs on the side of the road show the speed limit
2020-01-08T05:09:18 < Thorn> dongs has been busy https://twitter.com/ElleArmageddon/status/1214257005042360320
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2020-01-08T05:42:29 < jadew> Thorn, people there seem to be concerned with the string
2020-01-08T05:43:27 < jadew> if that's the only problem, then it's a great device
2020-01-08T05:43:40 < jadew> because you can fix that with a pair of scissors
2020-01-08T05:44:35 < jadew> there are much better ways of implementing that thing anyway
2020-01-08T05:58:10 < dongs> god damnit
2020-01-08T05:58:20 < dongs> jadew: i have these fucking baofeng chink 433mhz radios rite
2020-01-08T05:58:29 < dongs> i pressed transmit button on one near my dells
2020-01-08T05:58:39 < dongs> and it fucking triggers touch keypads on edge of it
2020-01-08T05:58:47 < jadew> hah
2020-01-08T05:58:47 < dongs> and it got into some faggot menu i cant get out of
2020-01-08T05:58:53 < dongs> thats like a lock on OSD or something
2020-01-08T05:58:54 < dongs> haha
2020-01-08T05:59:01 < jadew> turn it off and on again
2020-01-08T05:59:16 < dongs> yeah that should fix it but i hate  turning this shit off cuz all window positions get lost
2020-01-08T05:59:29 < jadew> put PC to sleep
2020-01-08T05:59:35 < dongs> it also seems to make my USB current meter go to 0V
2020-01-08T05:59:35 < jadew> or wait
2020-01-08T05:59:38 < dongs> when i press
2020-01-08T05:59:42 < dongs> and thats about 1m away from radio
2020-01-08T05:59:46 < jadew> there's a way
2020-01-08T06:00:01 < dongs> i wonder why it affects captouch
2020-01-08T06:00:42 < jadew> http://5.12.44.107/stuff/turnoffmonitor.exe
2020-01-08T06:00:56 < Thorn> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N6ejexuB1E0
2020-01-08T06:01:04 < jadew> strong signal
2020-01-08T06:01:15 < dongs> whoa
2020-01-08T06:01:16 < jadew> IIRC, those baofeng can do 4W
2020-01-08T06:01:19 < dongs> that exe, what does it do
2020-01-08T06:01:26 < dongs> sends DPMS power off thing?
2020-01-08T06:01:34 < jadew> yeah, it turns off only the monitors
2020-01-08T06:01:51 < jadew> puts them to sleep until you move your mouse or something
2020-01-08T06:02:33 < dongs> damn thats awesome
2020-01-08T06:02:37 < dongs> i actually need this with these fucking dells
2020-01-08T06:02:43 < dongs> and yeah that cleared the lock icon thing
2020-01-08T06:02:52 < dongs> where's sores for this
2020-01-08T06:02:58 < dongs> or like what does it do
2020-01-08T06:03:01 < jadew> I don't know, I'll have to find it
2020-01-08T06:03:07 < dongs> shit you wrote?
2020-01-08T06:03:07 < jadew> I wrote it many years ago
2020-01-08T06:03:10 < jadew> yeah
2020-01-08T06:03:10 < dongs> hm
2020-01-08T06:03:20 < jadew> it's a one liner
2020-01-08T06:04:27 < jadew> found it
2020-01-08T06:04:35 < dongs> bcas.tv/paste
2020-01-08T06:05:35 < jadew> http://5.12.44.107/stuff/turnoffmonitor.cpp.txt
2020-01-08T06:08:02 < dongs> haha
2020-01-08T06:08:17 < dongs> saved, nice
2020-01-08T06:08:56 < jadew> I use it a lot
2020-01-08T06:09:29 < jadew> not sure what I was doing before it, but I think there are other ways of achieving the same result
2020-01-08T06:12:40 < jadew> VAT is freaking annoying
2020-01-08T06:13:18 < jadew> when you start ordering from outside the EU, you begin noticing just how much you get ripped off by the state
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2020-01-08T06:14:49 < jadew> anyone using google pay?
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2020-01-08T06:20:25 < dongs> i tend to avoid useless shit
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2020-01-08T06:21:53 < jadew> that's what I was wondering
2020-01-08T06:21:58 < jadew> if it's worth looking into it or not
2020-01-08T06:22:12 < jadew> I see various shops that accept it as a payment option
2020-01-08T06:23:04 < dongs> irl? or like online trash
2020-01-08T06:23:20 < jadew> online
2020-01-08T06:27:03 < dongs> seems like a waste of time vs just using a credit card like normal people
2020-01-08T06:27:08 < dongs> what advantage would google gay give you
2020-01-08T06:27:10 < dongs> over cc
2020-01-08T06:27:24 < jadew> that's also my question
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2020-01-08T06:27:34 < dongs> In japan theres now like 20 fucking cashless payment shits
2020-01-08T06:27:37 < jadew> maybe it's like paypal - I don't know
2020-01-08T06:27:41 < dongs> <insert trendy shit here> Pay
2020-01-08T06:27:47 < jadew> right
2020-01-08T06:27:55 < dongs> except they're all incompatible and different and shit
2020-01-08T06:27:59 < dongs> fucking retarded
2020-01-08T06:28:06 < jadew> but google actually has a chance of being adopted properly
2020-01-08T06:28:12 < dongs> no?
2020-01-08T06:28:16 < dongs> google pay has been around for like 5+ years
2020-01-08T06:28:24 < dongs> hafev you heard of it before?
2020-01-08T06:28:31 < jadew> yeah, but I never used it
2020-01-08T06:28:34 < dongs> exactly
2020-01-08T06:28:39 < dongs> nobody actually uses it.
2020-01-08T06:28:49 < dongs> its not like paypal because there's no stored cash value in tyour account
2020-01-08T06:28:59 < dongs> it literally just becomes a a middleman to keep your cc details and charge you
2020-01-08T06:29:19 < dongs> it doesnt make much sense because merchant will lose money on visa/wahtever fees OR they will lose more(?) money on gpay fees
2020-01-08T06:29:46 < dongs> cuz like
2020-01-08T06:29:46 < jadew> thing is, if stores are using it, it must have better fees than paypal
2020-01-08T06:29:51 < dongs> shop -> cc purcahse -> done
2020-01-08T06:29:53 < dongs> with google gay you have
2020-01-08T06:29:58 < dongs> shop -> google gay -> cc purchase -> done
2020-01-08T06:30:03 < jadew> yeah
2020-01-08T06:30:03 < dongs> what is thebenefit of this extra step?
2020-01-08T06:31:35 < dongs> https://www.banggood.com/scam-p-1019971.html this is fucking esp1488 isnt it
2020-01-08T06:42:12 < dongs> https://www.banggood.com/fire-p-1587151.html nice
2020-01-08T06:43:25 < dongs> wiat waht the fuck
2020-01-08T06:43:33 < dongs> that whole thing is a clusterfuck of unnecessary features
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2020-01-08T08:48:57 < antto> google would wanna hide the URLs from u coz they are bad
2020-01-08T08:49:10 < antto> URLs lets you copy paste the path to somewhere
2020-01-08T08:49:43 < antto> while google doesn't want you to do that.. they want you to always "google your way" to find the "somewhere"
2020-01-08T08:50:19 < antto> because <coinz.wav>
2020-01-08T08:51:32 < antto> i don't like how they've teached normal people to use the akchual "address bar" in the browser as a search bar mainly
2020-01-08T08:52:17 < antto> they don't type "mybank.com" in it, they type "mybank" and then wait for the search results to come up and click on the first one
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2020-01-08T08:53:30 < antto> that's why i've been using duckduckgo since a bunch of years now
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2020-01-08T08:54:12 < antto> altho i think i'm seeing weird sh*t in it, like, i think it's injecting results from previous searches
2020-01-08T08:59:02 < jly> sean jared
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2020-01-08T09:01:36 < antto> hai therr jly
2020-01-08T09:02:34 < dongs> i mean google is definitely making a fucking effort to make sure i dislike using them as much as possible
2020-01-08T09:02:44 < dongs> AMP on mobile pretty much makes sure i never click any search results there
2020-01-08T09:03:04 < dongs> this bullshit colorscheme on desktop search, i looked ande bing looks like the old google, so im just gonna swap to bing for searches
2020-01-08T09:03:35 < dongs> haah fuckfuckgo has same favicon trash in results
2020-01-08T09:03:36 < dongs> well, bing it is
2020-01-08T09:04:03 < dongs> oh, you can actually turn it off
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2020-01-08T09:24:02 < antto> not sure what favicon is, duckduckgo's "look" is slightly adjustable from the settings
2020-01-08T09:24:25 < jly> hi antto 
2020-01-08T09:24:34 < antto> hi, but i gotta go
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2020-01-08T11:30:27 < Steffanx> Is jly alive?
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2020-01-08T11:37:00 < Steffanx> Lol
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2020-01-08T11:55:54 < c10ud> I can't seem to get freertos ctx switch under 5us on a 200mhz f7
2020-01-08T12:00:01 < karlp> what a useful metric.
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2020-01-08T12:09:37 < zyp> I mean, it is
2020-01-08T12:09:47 < zyp> 1000 cycles for a context switch sounds pretty bad
2020-01-08T12:10:06 < zyp> saving and restoring state should only take a fraction of that
2020-01-08T12:20:33 < jpa-> c10ud: how are you measuring? note that if you use a debugger, it can significantly affect timing on cortex-m7 due to the pipelining
2020-01-08T12:21:19 < jpa-> on cortex-m4 i've got into habit of doing "print DWT->CYCCNT" and then just step/next until i'm where i want to be and check DWT->CYCCNT again, but on cortex-m7 that gives too high values
2020-01-08T12:35:37 < karlp> antto: re: http://antonsavov.net/tmp/ifsiasg02.mp3 why do I know that track? who is with your synths?
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2020-01-08T13:54:25 < jadew> romanian company responded to my RFQ for the ziplock bags
2020-01-08T13:54:35 < jadew> minimum order 40k bags...
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2020-01-08T14:08:23 < jadew> on my dying bed, when I give my son control over the company I'll tell him: "there are bags with our logo... in my office"
2020-01-08T14:10:54 < jadew> "I hope you and your children, and their children's children will make good use of them."
2020-01-08T14:16:15 < jadew> going forward, I could only consider business opportunities that would allow me to use many bags
2020-01-08T14:16:46 < jadew> maybe I can find a niche where having bags with my logo are a definitive advantage
2020-01-08T14:16:46 < qyx> how much are they
2020-01-08T14:16:59 < englishman> haha, dongs predicted the bluetooth tampon
2020-01-08T14:17:01 < jadew> qyx, that's the thing, they're rather cheap, so I might actually get them
2020-01-08T14:17:07 < englishman> probably because he developed it
2020-01-08T14:17:12 < jadew> qyx, they cost less than 0.5 cents per bag
2020-01-08T14:18:28 < jadew> I'll see if they're willing to only make me 20k bags
2020-01-08T14:19:21 < kakimatic> morgon englishman
2020-01-08T14:19:30 < jadew> I will then be able to individually package each screw, washer and nut
2020-01-08T14:19:54 < englishman> Hmm plane crash in iran
2020-01-08T14:20:21 < c10ud> jpa-, high prio task toggling a gpio after a forced task switch
2020-01-08T14:20:43 < c10ud> but yes I have a jtag emulator connected, I will try without it 
2020-01-08T14:21:09 < englishman> hello kakomatic
2020-01-08T14:22:01 < jadew> englishman, what was the cause?
2020-01-08T14:22:15 < englishman> it happened like an hour ago so
2020-01-08T14:23:39 < Steffanx> Uh what englishman ? An hour ago?
2020-01-08T14:23:59 < englishman> ok 3 hours ago
2020-01-08T14:24:19 < jadew> 7
2020-01-08T14:24:24 < Steffanx> More like 7.5
2020-01-08T14:24:31 < Steffanx> Or 7
2020-01-08T14:24:47 < jadew> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YVTC4SoewbU
2020-01-08T14:24:52 < jadew> footage of it crashing
2020-01-08T14:26:27 < englishman> I didn't specify a precision
2020-01-08T14:26:33 < englishman> damn there's nothing left
2020-01-08T14:26:54 < jadew> yeah, it's all in pieces
2020-01-08T14:27:27 < jadew> hit the ground with full force
2020-01-08T14:27:31 < jadew> think it was shot down?
2020-01-08T14:28:40 < zyp> I think the news said probably motor failure
2020-01-08T14:29:33 < jadew> wouldn't that mean they can still steer the plane a little?
2020-01-08T14:29:58 < jadew> maybe reduce speed and not dive down like a meteorite?
2020-01-08T14:31:33 < Steffanx> It was on fire in the sky as well
2020-01-08T14:31:44 < Steffanx> Oh that was your footage
2020-01-08T14:32:17 < zyp> a motor that catches fire can probably also be classified as a motor failure
2020-01-08T14:32:35 < Steffanx> Probably. 
2020-01-08T14:32:37 < veverak> the most important quetion in life of engineer
2020-01-08T14:32:49 < veverak> "is it bug or feature?"
2020-01-08T14:33:24 < Steffanx> If it was a motor on fire you see in the footage zyp ;)
2020-01-08T14:34:10 < Steffanx> More importantly: did trump wake up yet?
2020-01-08T14:35:16 < englishman> https://en.mehrnews.com/photo/154308/Ukraine-Intl-Airlines-plane-crashes-in-Tehran-after-takeoff
2020-01-08T14:35:59 < englishman> https://cimg7.ibsrv.net/gimg/pprune.org-vbulletin/1998x1252/screenshot_2020_01_07_adella_beaini_on_twitter_2__58f29f820e62b96b7d17ffcb8992d72d4b4db58c.jpg
2020-01-08T14:36:16 < thardin> I was about to say
2020-01-08T14:36:30 < thardin> what is this, a crossover episode?
2020-01-08T14:39:29 < englishman> North Korean missile test. Iranians innocent
2020-01-08T14:42:30 < thardin> push the button chairman kim
2020-01-08T14:52:31 < c10ud> jpa-, disconnected the emulator but no change..mmm
2020-01-08T14:53:16 < jpa-> c10ud: yeah, debugger shouldn't matter if it is not actively pausing/stepping code
2020-01-08T14:53:39 < jpa-> c10ud: maybe step through in debugger to see what it is doing
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2020-01-08T15:28:33 < c10ud> the flow between the tasks seems ok, duh
2020-01-08T15:34:11 < dongs> https://github.com/libusb/libusb/issues/619#issuecomment-572044460 ssome nice trolling in progress
2020-01-08T15:34:46 < jadew> I had to go to heat
2020-01-08T15:34:49 < jadew> eat
2020-01-08T15:35:34 < jadew> about that crash, it's not uncommon for passenger planes to be shot down because they're confused for something else
2020-01-08T15:35:43 < jadew> happened on a number of occasions
2020-01-08T15:36:04 < jadew> considering the tensions in the region right now, this is not an unlikely scenario
2020-01-08T15:41:56 < jadew> is that picture from where it crashed?
2020-01-08T15:42:04 < jadew> it's like... there's nothing there
2020-01-08T15:44:39 < jadew> https://www.reddit.com/r/worldnews/comments/eln033/boeing_737_crashes_in_iran_after_take_off/fdj3f9s/
2020-01-08T15:45:26 < cyb3rtruck> dongs: i remember this libusb crap being talked about back in early fall. last dude's comment spot on. trollcop got put in its place.
2020-01-08T15:55:42 < karlp> last dude's comment agrees with trollcop?
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2020-01-08T16:45:06 < jpa-> yeah, seems like our friend trollcop is surprisingly reasonable there
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2020-01-08T17:36:56 < zyp> hmm
2020-01-08T17:37:27 < zyp> there's a bunch of different eeproms that come with preprogrammed mac addrs, but apparently none of them are compatible with the eeprom interface of LAN9512
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2020-01-08T17:39:18 < Steffanx> Not even microchips own?
2020-01-08T17:40:29 < zyp> correct
2020-01-08T17:40:54 < karlp> wrong address?
2020-01-08T17:41:04 < karlp> or serial not at the right location?
2020-01-08T17:41:08 < zyp> no, wrong protocol
2020-01-08T17:41:55 < karlp> what's the lan9512 expecting?!
2020-01-08T17:42:21 < zyp> I've currently put 25AA02E48 into the schematic, before I double checked that the protocol matched
2020-01-08T17:42:56 < karlp> you want 24aa02 don't you?
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2020-01-08T17:43:19 < karlp> spi vs i2c?
2020-01-08T17:43:53 < zyp> no, spi vs microwire
2020-01-08T17:44:07 < zyp> 25* vs 93* EEPROMs
2020-01-08T17:44:27 < karlp> oh, yuk
2020-01-08T17:44:33 < zyp> and the 93AA46AE48 won't work either, since it's 1k
2020-01-08T17:44:51 < zyp> (7-bit addrs)
2020-01-08T17:45:18 < zyp> LAN9512 needs a microwire EEPROM with 9-bit addrs, i.e. 2k or 4k
2020-01-08T17:45:21 < karlp> um, isn't microwire just a subset of spi though?
2020-01-08T17:45:35 < zyp> sure, but the EEPROM protocols are different
2020-01-08T17:46:01 < zyp> and microwire doesn't seem to be byte aligned either, looks super awful
2020-01-08T17:53:14 < karlp> I like how that 9512 supports clock out for "partner" ics.
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2020-01-08T18:02:20 < karlp> none of the other usb2 hubs from microchip seem to, nor does gl850/852
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2020-01-08T18:21:45 < zyp> well, I figure it's more of a MAC than a hub
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2020-01-08T18:59:07 < jpa-> karlp: doesn't pretty much any usb2 hub allow to take clock from the XOUT pin?
2020-01-08T18:59:48 < jpa-> karlp: 9512 probably has that separate 24MHz output because its main crystal is 25MHz for the ethernet
2020-01-08T18:59:59 < karlp> well, they don't normally document it, but I haven't read all of their app notes, only the datasheets
2020-01-08T19:00:25 < jpa-> well, pretty much any chip with integrated crystal oscillator
2020-01-08T19:01:10 < jpa-> usually the datasheets do tell the driving strength of the XOUT pin, which allows to determine how much extra stuff you can put there
2020-01-08T19:01:22 < karlp> you just put the crystal on xin/xout of one of them, and a trace from the xout to the xin of the other one?
2020-01-08T19:01:30 < jpa-> yeah
2020-01-08T19:01:59 < karlp> still need two eeproms, unless the cascaded can be done all on pin straps. but might work.
2020-01-08T19:02:30 < jpa-> the main problem is that if you have long trace on the XOUT pin and it starts to affect the capacitance, it will also affect the crystal tuning; but that would have to be pretty long
2020-01-08T19:03:21 < emeb> or use the muxed clock output?
2020-01-08T19:03:53 < jpa-> emeb: you joined in middle, we are talking about usb hub chips like USB2422 or GL850
2020-01-08T19:04:02 < emeb> oic
2020-01-08T19:06:20 < jpa-> karlp: i guess as a dirty trick one might get away with just hooking DOUT of the eeprom to both hub chips, after all they probably read it at the same time after poweron
2020-01-08T19:06:43 < emeb> eek
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2020-01-08T19:09:13 < Steffanx> Lol
2020-01-08T19:12:55 -!- con3|2 [~kvirc@197.233.128.242] has joined ##stm32
2020-01-08T19:13:20  * karlp laughs
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2020-01-08T19:19:49 < zyp> jpa-, nice
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2020-01-08T19:39:24 < qyx> what microwire
2020-01-08T19:39:31 < qyx> it is still a thing
2020-01-08T19:43:56 < jadew> microwire is great
2020-01-08T19:50:51 -!- jsoft [~jsoft@unaffiliated/jsoft] has joined ##stm32
2020-01-08T19:54:21 < Cracki> never heard of it. internet says someone reinvented i2c/spi and called it that
2020-01-08T19:55:36 < Cracki> it has a start bit! lol
2020-01-08T19:57:02 < qyx> uhm, today newy
2020-01-08T19:57:07 < qyx> *news
2020-01-08T19:57:23 < qyx> what range do the iranian missiles have
2020-01-08T19:58:13 -!- sterna [~Adium@c-08b9d954.016-35-62726f1.bbcust.telenor.se] has joined ##stm32
2020-01-08T19:59:32 < Cracki> less than the israeli ones
2020-01-08T19:59:38 < Cracki> but they're in range of each other
2020-01-08T20:00:02 < Cracki> iran isn't gonna bomb europe. they know who pulls murica's strings.
2020-01-08T20:32:42 < jadew> Cracki, uwire is like i2c but with just one wire
2020-01-08T20:32:55 < Cracki> uh
2020-01-08T20:33:01 < Cracki> it has data and clock too
2020-01-08T20:33:07 < Cracki> sounds precisely like i2c
2020-01-08T20:33:10 < jadew> yeah, on the same line
2020-01-08T20:33:13 < Cracki> wat
2020-01-08T20:33:18 < Cracki> nobody told me that
2020-01-08T20:33:21 < qyx> wat
2020-01-08T20:33:24 < Cracki> is it 1wire then?
2020-01-08T20:33:30 < Cracki> because microwire isn't 1wire
2020-01-08T20:33:31 < jadew> oh, wait
2020-01-08T20:33:33 < jadew> I'm dumb
2020-01-08T20:33:36 < jadew> yes
2020-01-08T20:33:38 < qyx> isnt microwire the same as SPI with MISO/MOSI combined?
2020-01-08T20:33:38 < jadew> it's not microwire
2020-01-08T20:33:41 < jadew> lol
2020-01-08T20:33:45 < jadew> I made a confusion
2020-01-08T20:33:47 < Cracki> ur not dumb, just confused
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2020-01-08T20:34:15 < jadew> ./erase_scrollback
2020-01-08T20:34:53 < jadew> I don't remember microwire, even tho I've implemented decoders for it, at least twice
2020-01-08T20:35:22 < Cracki> memory gabs indicate PTSD
2020-01-08T20:35:24 < Cracki> *gaps
2020-01-08T20:35:31 < jadew> hah
2020-01-08T20:41:47 < jadew> I wasn't 100% sure, but I did: http://5.12.44.107/stuff/microwire_fix.png
2020-01-08T20:42:27 < jadew> that's once, then the second time was for my protocol sniffer/injector thing
2020-01-08T20:42:58 < jadew> I wonder why I remember so little about it
2020-01-08T20:44:17 < srk> Microwire,[15] often spelled μWire, is essentially a predecessor of SPI and a trademark of National Semiconductor. It's a strict subset of SPI: half-duplex, and using SPI mode 0. 
2020-01-08T20:44:21 < srk> hm?
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2020-01-08T20:44:47 < jadew> it doesn't look like it
2020-01-08T20:44:51 < jadew> it has a start bit
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2020-01-08T20:44:57 < Cracki> optional
2020-01-08T20:45:05 < jadew> SPI is dumb
2020-01-08T20:45:07 < Cracki> if you don't have it, it's just a stream of bits tho
2020-01-08T20:45:16 < srk> hah
2020-01-08T20:45:21 < Cracki> the S in usart stands for synchronous... so there's that
2020-01-08T20:45:34 < Cracki> strict subset is a lie
2020-01-08T20:45:59 < jadew> yeah
2020-01-08T20:46:02 < Cracki> a compliant spi peripheral can't deal with all possible microwire input
2020-01-08T20:47:08 < Cracki> have yall heard yet of Eugene Harrington of Gotham City Solutions?
2020-01-08T20:48:06 < jadew> sounds like a villain
2020-01-08T20:49:41 < Cracki> he does
2020-01-08T20:50:16 < Cracki> the rossmann tried to engage him for some renovations
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2020-01-08T21:45:41 < cyb3rtruck> how's stm32 at being an i2c slave?
2020-01-08T21:47:00 -!- con3 [~kvirc@197.233.128.242] has joined ##stm32
2020-01-08T21:49:57 < mawk> stm32ish
2020-01-08T21:50:14 < cyb3rtruck> or do i even need an mcu for this?
2020-01-08T21:50:18 < cyb3rtruck> i'll need to translate i2c to spi
2020-01-08T21:50:28 -!- gregorian [~volno@chello085216193138.chello.sk] has quit []
2020-01-08T21:51:16 < mawk> you can roll your own chip sure, if you're a big company
2020-01-08T21:54:53 -!- con3 [~kvirc@197.233.128.242] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds]
2020-01-08T21:55:19 < cyb3rtruck> oh wait htis thing has a uart too
2020-01-08T21:55:34 < cyb3rtruck> if i'm gonna have to roll openwrt customizations for i2c i might as well just zap its console uart and use that
2020-01-08T21:57:17 < Steffanx> What is cyb3rtruck working on again? I recall seeing a few lunix thingies a few days ago
2020-01-08T21:57:38 < Steffanx> It cant be heating for your oven.
2020-01-08T21:58:03 < cyb3rtruck> no. i just got another gl-ar750s for the cluster project
2020-01-08T21:58:21 < cyb3rtruck> it has a header on it with uart, i2c, 3.3v
2020-01-08T21:58:32 < Steffanx> and what is this cluster going to do?
2020-01-08T21:58:33 < cyb3rtruck> so i'm gonna make a little board with lora module on it
2020-01-08T21:58:44 < cyb3rtruck> and just plug it into that header
2020-01-08T22:05:57 < karlp> why not a usb one?
2020-01-08T22:11:54 < cyb3rtruck> karlp: you shouldn't have to ask by now. the answer is autism :P
2020-01-08T22:12:09  * karlp grins
2020-01-08T22:18:12 < karlp> here:
2020-01-08T22:18:14 < karlp> data:image/jpeg;base64,/9j/4AAQSkZJRgABAQAAAQABAAD/2wBDAAMCAgICAgMCAgIDAwMDBAYEBAQEBAgGBgUGCQgKCgkICQkKDA8MCgsOCwkJDRENDg8QEBEQCgwSExIQEw8QEBD/2wBDAQMDAwQDBAgEBAgQCwkLEBAQEBAQEBAQEBAQEBAQEBAQEBAQEBAQEBAQEBAQEBAQEBAQEBAQEBAQEBAQEBAQEBD/wAARCAF2ApoDAREAAhEBAxEB/8QAHwAAAQUBAQEBAQEAAAAAAAAAAAECAwQFBgcICQoL/8QAtRAAAgEDAwIEAwUFBAQAAAF9AQIDAAQRBRIhMUEGE1FhByJxFDKBkaEII0KxwRVS0fAkM2JyggkKFhcYGRolJicoKSo0NT
2020-01-08T22:18:16 < karlp> Y3ODk6Q0RFRkdISUpTVFVWV1hZWmNkZWZnaGlqc3R1dnd4eXqDhIWGh4iJipKTlJWWl5iZmqKjpKWmp6ipqrKztLW2t7i5usLDxMXGx8jJytLT1NXW19jZ2uHi4+Tl5ufo6erx8vP09fb3+Pn6/8QAHwEAAwEBAQEBAQEBAQAAAAAAAAECAwQFBgcICQoL/8QAtREAAgECBAQDBAcFBAQAAQJ3AAECAxEEBSExBhJBUQdhcRMiMoEIFEKRobHBCSMzUvAVYnLRChYkNOEl8RcYGRomJygpKjU2Nzg5OkNERUZHSElKU1RVVldYWVpjZGVmZ2hpanN0dXZ3eHl6goOEhYaHiImKkpOUlZaXmJmaoqOkpaanqKmqsrO0tba3uLm6wsPExcbHyMnK0tP
2020-01-08T22:18:16 -!- catphish [~catphish@unaffiliated/catphish] has joined ##stm32
2020-01-08T22:18:18 < karlp> U1dbX2Nna4uPk5ebn6Onq8vP09fb3+Pn6/9oADAMBAAIRAxEAPwD44s4tHfQoZbS4LPJENwr5qSsfPTMuyk+zyOApUliPwrmnoYovICj58/7/AEHoamnrI6Og2TVEE6wvFkx/eb1qakbiNHRtQjsbloxa/PJ/qzWKXKBHqlyl8GuGTZcWrbk+tDd2BetfiHp04iW8CsyoUlBbv6/zreNObWiKUGxl5rmlzad5FnL+7Z8lWbisakJx6DcJIgtda0vSYWBvRHJK/mH5u9OlTqPoVGEmc9rCLqus/wBo2dyPMmXJO/vXaoyitUVyyR0XhTxyumXdtY+J5AEjJRJGfIFZ1ac6kbJFKm5ncW974Ljmn1TU9VWQpGWhCNXN9WmuhXsGmUPAHxbXwVfTahot
2020-01-08T22:18:20 < karlp> 0qSPkks33sdP51XsKi6FKm0dvf8A7TOg6ojxapo1s92w/wBc7fcI6EcV00qU+XYvkbRz1z4ysfHF3Fp+qXsIhXIilkfACjoaynSn2M/Zu51dxrPhyDwvFoNlrMTyq21zAwG4fWkqM7bG8YO1mYni6wsdD0XTfEl14hF3JeHZtLcqV6fzNQsM7kww9memfBmX4RG8i1XXdQF1dWESyQxOw/eSeldUcNJbnpUoJH0f8XPgd4f+JPh+38c+EdWW1OnWYk+zR/MoJGSv14oqw5YmteKlDQ+JfiN8XXvfC0PgHUtKghXT52Blb77EcZzXI6cpPRHiVqTueE2es20GpENcoqFyAd3StIYep2MI0ZI+gPgLqGn2J1catf2t1Z6hp7QrCDmTdkc/hXQ6cox1O
2020-01-08T22:18:22 < karlp> +mmo6kB+KWheGI3s9P1S9E1vLut3IwCwPBBzwQP51xOjKb0QOTRtfF39q5/iVo+laGjRRtpsizySO/72SUAjJPfqa6adCouhg5SZ47rvj1ddvltLq7zGzjlmzvraVKXVGMoy5rn1B8HtJ+Fclnp+peNdUs51tSrW8CkAq3+0c9KzUGz3MJWUIWZ6J8Rf2sfh38N7DWfD2mpCJNUAWIRSBlA55z+NUqU+xliKvM9D5W8T/GXwv4qUbbSW4dk2yyGUAZ/KuerSn2PPnJswvAuryW8k8ukqkgVS/lMMjFcDg2zOO5san45XxLbfbkvrSzvbdiqxA7dvuPevQoU5qNkjoSaKk1xBq9raavqusRS3rgrJh+mMYz71s4SW6NIxbN/w14t0Y28ul3GpxW+Ok
2020-01-08T22:18:24 < karlp> rP1qo0Zs3jTsXG8W+G9LDfaZYpwOFcOK6PZSR02MC9+KOkaVOZNLZI8jLNu65rVUpG1OyINH8Zabql+2qX99C8xB2bm6CqVKSO1SjY77TfitodnGBLqUaugx8rin7OQc8SeT4vaTdTLGl2jxE9m6UOEkClFlLxN4qi1O5srCznDQTsGkXvgUuVik7M2NR8SeFrHyhFdRxqmFYFgD0rSNNsXtEi/wCH/iv4XsdQCtqkYiH+2Kv2bsWq0TsbP4m6LqV9dGz1KPypotiqGFZOm+pTnFmfL4+0mxsDpc16uS2SCcDAoUGc87Ms6V8ZfB2mXESS6lGYjgsFYcVXJJHPJJnZ3/7Rfgi9tFgsZVgZRtE7MMGmk7HPKJ3fh39obwl4d8Hz6LP4ntpJ5od67XB
2020-01-08T22:18:26 < karlp> XP0/GsKikc8kbXwP+N/wt0bS7m7v/ABNBb3F1MWlR3GSSTg1rh5OIQZ6+/wATvhp4s0uRZtYs7qFclj5gwRXpc/NGxvzXVjwnXtT8HW3iBtQ0jxTa25hfMUG8djXmVsO5yujCcGyv4m+IOteL9XsoLuztlgKnEwfIf3rGrGUSUmdH4W1zwXoFvA+t+K7JjE5k2Mw2rjt1rsw0nFGiOu139on4HatbQabdeIIYTA4KhGXaW9etdDqNsps6WP4zfDa40eJrXWIbsRqqqFcE1alcQ/xV8UNJ0uK3d2EasoKsWAAFZTVwHad8ffhpOkUMniG3WfAVlMg6itqStEDcn+LngSzg+1Ta3biPGc+YOa1Ai0742fDzVZfJstft3fpjzBQBPqvxf8CaMf8AT9bg
2020-01-08T22:18:28 < karlp> TP8AtigCxoXxQ8GeIzjStYgm+jigBviX4p+C/CkRl1fWIIgBnBcCgDh4v2sfhDLdfZV8RW27OMeYP8aAPQ/DnxB8KeKo1k0fVoJtwyArg0AdBLNHDGZZHAQDOaAON1z4w+AvDsph1TXIIWU4ILgUAYn/AA0j8J/+hkg/77X/ABoAkh/aK+FU7bI/Elvu9DIv+NAFqf48fDW3jEsviG3CnvvFAC2fx2+G1+SLbxDbNj/poKTAivfj58M7N/LuPENurem8VIFy0+MngS7t/tMOs27R4znzBxQBmT/H34YxTCB/EdqJM4wXFAHQWfxB8K3tob+LV7YwqM53jFAHF+Jf2nPhV4cnNteeIYQ6nkCQUNXQGbZftZfCi/Yrb6vG/fCsP8aUU0SoXEu/2k/CM
2020-01-08T22:18:28 < qyx> haha
2020-01-08T22:18:30 < karlp> jG40qznuCoO1j0PY1bldG0abR5r8V/2lNF1XSotEujDZNM4MhZwCUU5/oKxtqbJcpyXhj4//Dd/EGnxPr9vDHav82HHzHBH86qxm2mz2Pxx4w8LeOjappepRz77cbDuB7UFQOp8DWj6b8Lrq0mcFisigr05c1DBr3jyuGZLKQlEbKErz6k0G8XoOgiE17HAuFQneB6saCXuT+MBdRaRcPFhZ4njbLegIq4kVNj0vwJ9sXVEF6QxvdLSZWXpwgrSRnT3PLtZw+p3e0bdly4P13GsWd6dkfKfiHd/b+pc/wDL5N/6GaQuc+M7AWb6XGVvjHOUwIwcV401ofFTJbIzCVDPDJt/iJPWuGroYo6Ww0GC+VpmuQkbcA55Fc6qcrOjoR65o9paWyWwucS7C0
2020-01-08T22:18:32 < karlp> bjnP19a6oe+IraVdecywliWHSTHP5VNWlYCXVluFspZ0TPldW/DvWNON5JMcVdn0L+wN+xF8G/2uPBfi3xL8QPFvjXTNY0HXBZLDod9awwm2eBHRmWa2lbcX80ZDAYA44JP1WHoQUFoexSpxUTq/23f+Cd/wAIv2Y/2ftT+LHgDxp4+1HU9P1CytvI1i/tJbby5pRGxKxWsbZGRj5sexq6mGhNbFypxZv/ALKv/BML4QfHf9nnwZ8VviR41+INjrviS2nvJrfSdQs47VI/tEqw7FltJHGYljJyx+YnGBgU4YeEFZII04pHG/t4/sAfDH9lP4IWvxR+GXi7xtqd8uvWunXcWuXtrNCtrLFMSyiG2iYP5iRAEsRgtxnBDnQhJbDdNM9B/Zw/4JbfBT4
2020-01-08T22:18:34 < karlp> 1/AXwR8UfH3jj4h2uteJtLTUriDTNQsoraMSMxjCLJaSOP3ezOXOTk8DgONGEVsCgkcr8Uv8Agnf8DvBX7U/wU+AWj+OviHNpfxDttfn1ma41Kza6gSzszNb+Qy2qou6RHD70fIHG080eyg3ew+VHuif8Eav2aUOR8SPix/4NtO/+QabpQfQHFM+cf2LP2CPg7+07oXxCv/G/i/x1Yv4R8Y3egWI0q+tIxJaxohRpfMtpCZPmOSu1emFFJUYR6AoJHVfth/8ABO/4E/s0fATVfi5oPjP4lapcaNfabEbS81SxKPBNeRRTAbLNSH8t32nOA20kMAQR0YPoPlR7HoX/AASR/Zn1XS7PXNG+K/xYmstRt47u3lXV9OKyRSKGRh/oPQgg0/Yw2sFkfIvg
2020-01-08T22:18:36 < karlp> T9lpPHf7cevfsea/4n8QDwf4WuNQvpL+CeJdR+wLAHtTvaJo95ae2Dny8EFsBcjGaw8FK4WPqL4l/wDBM39mv4K/DrxP8V774mfFl4PCuk3OqtF/a+nAzGGNmWMf6EOWYBRz1YVo6UWh7GJ+wd4t1jxX8P8AUtR1HV5pLZLQxTREk/Njg189iP4nIbUW5vlZ5H8Gf2WfBf7U37TnjzwH4n17xHpnhjw9pb6gZdGuoYrg3j3MaRITLFIuwp55I2g5VcHGc+rhMPFRu0YzguY+jP8AhzH+zJnP/Cxfixn/ALC2nf8AyDXb7OPYXKj5v/bi/Y88F/sTeFPCHj34U+L/ABfqI1fWJNKvl127tp1TMDSRmPyYIsf6uTOd2eMYxzjWoRlETirEH7C/7KPw9
2020-01-08T22:18:38 < karlp> /bX0DxprPxO8XeMNNm8O39rbWyaDeW0EbpLG7EuJreUk5XjBAxU0MPCMb2JjBW1Ppdv+CMn7M5O9fiR8Vw3YnVdOP8A7Y10ezj2K5InNeOP+CMPw/m0S4Pw0+NHiyy1hF3W39vR293bMw/hfyY4mUHpuGcddrdKTpRa2E4JnxZ8Ffhn4gvf2otJ/ZN+ME2raJPNrM2k6udOnRZ02wvIjwvIjoVbajKxQgo4I61hHDRUrkxhZn3/AHn/AARv/Ztv5BLd/Ev4tSMOm7V9OOP/ACRroVOK6GlkVrj/AII7fs16TY3N7B8RfiszQQvKFbVdOIJVSef9B9qmVGEtGhOCZ+Y/gjxNqNppDavZTeVLFHsIHRhjuK8GvQjGtY4ZQSnZH25+yP8AsD/BD9rH4I
2020-01-08T22:18:40 < karlp> ab8WvF/jbx9p2tTX99ZXlvo+oWUVsjQzME2rJayMCYzGTljyTjA4r26NCEYrQ7YxSR57/wUE/Yz+Hv7HngLwr4v+G3i/xpqcut6w+nXaa5e200aqIGkUoIbeIhsqepPHaqlQg+ha0PoX4af8Elvgl4y+G3hLxX4w+IPxMtdd1nQrC/1OCx1SxS3iupbdHlSJXs2YIHZgNzE4AyTVKnFdB3PmP/AIKLfsgeDf2QdG8C6v8ADbxZ4u1W18RXN/a3/wDb15bzGN4lhaHy/JgixkNNu3bui4xg5HTixqTR9TeEf+CQfwE8Q+DtA1jxN8RPifHqt7plrc30drqdgkK3DxK0gRWs2YKGJwCxIGMk9apQSFdnkNh/wTw+B91+2zf/ALM9v47+IQ8O6f8ADke
2020-01-08T22:18:42 < karlp> K5boajZ/bhqBv44fL3/ZfL8nyZVbb5e7dzuxxRyornZ7uf+COP7N56/E34t/+DfTv/kGnZC5mebftJf8ABNb4JfAH4D+Mfiz4T8e/Ei91Xw5ZJc2sGo6lZSW7uZkTDrHaIxGHPRhUygmio1JJnw1YeKNRsdNg1Z3JIjOM+4rm9nqdcp3Vz7O/ZI/YN+Ev7V/wN034ueOvHfxB0/VL6/vrWW30fULOK2VYZ2RSqy2sjAlQM5Y856dK6oxSRxym2z2D/hzn+zmo/d/FD4tg9idX08/+2NOyJ5mcZ8SP+CUOq+EdDuNe/Z/+L2t3+rWUbTR6P4jWFlvSOfLS4iWMROcHG5CpOASoywTgmXGpKJ8l/sz+GLX9pD9o3RPgj8RL7xBocV8mpR6j/Z8iW97b
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2020-01-08T22:19:30 < karlp> VvFf9uT+HfGlxpGmv9htrbyLVEUiPEEaBuT1bLe9ADv8Agqp/yZN4zx/z/aP/AOnGClLYTPzE/wCCfHibWPBP7ZHwyuNOYiPWbqbSLtAcCaC4gkUhvXa2xx7oK5sPK7aM6Z++ddRqfh38FdTsPjL+1L401bxlZvdah4p8S38h3Nu8lGnbYin0Rdqj2UV5WYVLaDiuaR7L+0p8MfiH8MfhvrNhq+ppqei3jNsWUndABnAGc+orkwkbzOmrSajc+y/+CcfhV/CH7GXw4sZeZb21u9UZsYyLm8mmT/yG6D8K99bHKQfGH9nH4p+PP2yPhF+0D4c1vw5B4W+H1jcW1/aXdzOl9K9wJ0lMKJC0bDy5I8bpF5B9iWB9DeK9Cg8UeF9Y8M3Sq0Or2FxYyBhw
2020-01-08T22:19:32 < karlp> VljZDn8GoA/OD/giPbXFl4W+L1heQtFcW2r6ZFLGw5R1juAwPuCCKAPqz/goL4z8WfD39kD4g+MfA3iG/wBC1zTYtOe01CxmMU8JbUbZG2sORlGZT6hiO9AHoH7Nni7XPH37PXw08beJrs3Wsa54T0q/v7gqFM1xJaxtJIQMAbmJOAMc8UAfn38avCGgeEf+Cxnw0utC06KzbxHFZaxfCIYWS6aK7heTHQFhAhOOrZJ5JNAH6mUAfkf49/4KI/tJX3xd+Inwcnm8JDw1a6/rHhpHfSW89bNLiW3UlxKAX2Drjrzis6lTkRUY8x51qWieE/ho/wDZWkarHfGe3xIyHIjNeXN88jthyRR3n/BK7xBLYftieKtFL7bfWfB922z+/LFd2rIfwUy/nXpUX
2020-01-08T22:19:34 < karlp> 7pyVNz9WvG3hmPxXpFrp0ig/ZtX0vU1z2NpfQ3H/tKtjM8j/bQ+Iw+Gfwv8OawbryBd/EDwnbM2cbo01a3uJF+hjt3B9iaAPVPH3hn/AISey0eMR720zXdO1NRj/njcKxP4DJ/CgDo55o7aCS4mYLHEhdyewAyTQB+N3/BITX5vFf7aPj7xRcqVm1jwjq9/ICc4aXVLFz+rUAfrr8QtZv8Aw54A8TeIdKaNb3S9Hvb22Mi7lEscLumR3GVHFAH4gfET/goR+0R+0h8O9R+E/wARl8J/2FrEls9y9npjw3AME6TJtbzSB88a5+U8ZqJSsa06fNqeGeKPD4trL7TbcqoOaUZdDadLlVz9iv8AgkuMfsZaCP8AqM6t/wClLVochnf8FXvjB8Tfgp8EfB
2020-01-08T22:19:36 < karlp> /i74VeNNS8N6q/jK3tpbiyk2+dD9junMcikFXQsiEqwIO0UAfaOn3DXdhbXTgBpoUkIHQEqDQB+a934W0jwn/wWu0WfSoEgHiLRLjVZ0QAL9obR7lHYD1Yw7j6szHvQB+mFAHwb/wR/wD+SKfEr/spWpf+klnQB0f/AAVyP/GGesDPXXdL/wDR1AHq/wCwl/yZ78Jf+xZtv60AfGv/AAWS/wCSjfs+f9fmqf8Ao/TqAP1CoA/Gn9tm+09f28PiTp1/MIxPYaTsYnof7Mt6xqx5gPq3/gkEix/s/wDjlEfcB8RL7B9f+Jfp9aRVkBf/AOCv/wDyZ1df9jJpn85KoD6y+Fv/ACTLwj/2AbD/ANJ0oA/P79pn/lLz8C/+wBY/+jtToA/SmgD8o/8Agnv
2020-01-08T22:19:38 < karlp> /AMpOPj7/ANcvFn/p/taAP0Q+PnxOX4ReHPD3i+4m8uxk8WaPpN8xOFW3vblbV3b2Tzg//AKAPTKAPzJ/4LIEDxx+zkScAarrJP8A3+0qgD9NqAPhX4efG7xZoH/BUr4p/Aay0/SX8P8Aiq30/Wb25lilN5HNbaDaCNY3EgQIe4ZGPoRQB9r+Jzjw1qxHaxn/APRbUAfnj/wSpmkk8GSB2JA6ZoA6j/gqB/yTJv8Ac/pQB9cfs8/8kB+Gf/Yn6N/6RRUAfAn/AAUr/wCTrvAf/YmH/wBLJ6APSf8Agkz/AMif8Vf+xtj/APSVKAPa/wBv/wCK3j/4J/sq+LviT8MNf/sXxHpc2mra3v2WC58sS30EUg8udHjOUdhypxnIwcGgD1D4F+I9a8Y/BL4f
2020-01-08T22:19:40 < karlp> eLvEl79s1fXPCuk6lf3HlpH51zNaRSSvtQBVy7McKABnAAFAH52/8FJv+T+f2df+u2if+no0AfqVQB+OvxA/Z21j9qj/AIKNfGv4YaL4vtPDk1laLrTXVzZtcq6xxWEJj2qykEm4Bzn+E8c0mrlKVj1vwj+yp+03/wAE+PBvir4yeC/2hNG1zw1oFlLrGreEbrSpxZ6mka5YLmQ+RKVGBKmDwu7co2lkn3P+zt8cPD37Rvwc8O/GHwzY3Fjaa7DJvs7hg0lrPFK0U0RYcMFkRsNgblwcDOKAPzl/4LZeD7LTPFPwz+INharHea1YalpF9MvBkW2eCSAH1I+0zc+nHYUDufqxpef7Ms89fIj/APQRQI5PwV4u+E/iHxT4qg8G3mhHxNp9/wDYPEkUC
2020-01-08T22:19:40 -!- Jybz [~jibz@2a01:e0a:198:e110:4a51:b7ff:fe84:99e6] has joined ##stm32
2020-01-08T22:19:42 < karlp> RR34nhGE+0AAOw2EFGbI2ng9QAD5p/4KFftLeC9D+Fes/AXwjrVprPjnxtD/ZUljZuJjp1nIR58twVOIy0e5EUncS4YAqrEJuw0rnjPwA+H99pfh3S/Ca/uneIS3Ix0QcVi3c7IKyPenhhEVxpll8lpZRbEz3IHP9aRZ3nw4SO7+Gs6SLu2iUf+Pmk9hx3PPL1BFI8EYwCG4/Cogy6q0M3RPiHd+CPAc+mWyNJquoX8kdog/wCWaktl/wAs1u2ckVqVbW0n+ws8sxeRmEjSH+Nzyx/Mms+p0taHzDr/AJ39u6lyP+Pub/0M0yT428OarHatBGkoCSRhZFfnP/168WtC6PjFKTZu/bb/AEfWfN066LW7EZDHI968+VFPoU4s17nVozdRnbtWTlmB4z
2020-01-08T22:19:44 -!- mode/##stm32 [+o Steffanx] by ChanServ
2020-01-08T22:19:44 < karlp> RKlZGa5rlmCyEbyTxTIWl54rBqSLbaLFpaRyJ/o8y7QdzRHkiqi31NYJPcxtW1NJLtreLe7MNowvGR2zXZC3KbexbV0Wvgjqdx4R/aj+D/AInhdY2TxhpMM/8A1yluUil/8cdq9fL5pqx14ZOOjP6DK9Q7D45/4KzeJE0L9izxLpxm8t/EGq6VpqDOCxF0lwQP+A27fgDQB6z+xL4qTxn+yT8JtcW589l8LWVhJJuyWltU+zSZPrvhbPvmgD2uR0iRpJGCqgLMT2AoA/CP/gn3r0ni3/go34R8XyKytrur+I9SIbr++02/k5/76qU7sXU/d6qGfBf/AASXUr4U+NOR/wA1IvR/5DSgDvv+CqSF/wBifxmo/wCf7R//AE4wUpbCex+YX7GcESftU/B
2020-01-08T22:19:46 < karlp> oAfvV8QxZ+mx64sN8TMqbuz9867jY/Dn9kq4tNJ+NHiDVblF/d6reKJTwYm89uc14eZPUIzcZHoX7Wv7RcvjDwVqXhHUsLdWbtFFKP+Wy+vvU5fdy1OudZzjY/Ub9n/wq/gf4FfDzwdL/AK3RfC2l2MpxjMkdrGrnHuwJ/GveOQ8V/aA/botfgV+078Of2b2+Gx1pvHp0vzNYGsfZhp63uoSWinyPIfzdvll8eYmenHWgD6ooA+Fv+CcvhWXwT8Z/2q/DDw+Ull4/XyF/6YPJePEfxjZD+NAHpP8AwU1/5Mc+J/8A176Z/wCnO0oA7/8AY54/ZP8Ag9/2JGjf+kkdAHxl+0gjH/gr/wDBQgf8wSwP/j+o0gP0upgfFHiP/glB8BvE3j3xD8Q7r4i/
2020-01-08T22:19:47 -!- karlp was kicked from ##stm32 by Steffanx [Whopwhop]
2020-01-08T22:19:51 <@Steffanx> lol
2020-01-08T22:20:53 <@Steffanx> Ohno, now you have an incomplete image. Will you be ok?
2020-01-08T22:21:21 < qyx> not trying to decode random interwebs base64 data
2020-01-08T22:21:46 -!- bvernoux [~Ben@88.120.152.126] has joined ##stm32
2020-01-08T22:22:46 < veverak> wat was dat
2020-01-08T22:23:19 <@Steffanx> love.
2020-01-08T22:23:26 -!- mode/##stm32 [-o Steffanx] by Steffanx
2020-01-08T22:24:16 < cyb3rtruck> base64 encoded penises
2020-01-08T22:26:51 -!- mode/##stm32 [+o Steffanx] by ChanServ
2020-01-08T22:27:03 -!- mode/##stm32 [-o Steffanx] by Steffanx
2020-01-08T22:27:14 -!- mode/##stm32 [+o Steffanx] by ChanServ
2020-01-08T22:27:15 -!- Steffanx changed the topic of ##stm32 to: STM32 | This channel is publicly logged ( http://xob.kapsi.fi/~jpa/stm32/ ) | IRC wisdom: https://github.com/karlp/zypsnips | Don't ask to ask | http://essentialscrap.com/tips/stm32prices/ | And cats | Channel rules: https://physics.nist.gov/cuu/Units/checklist.html
2020-01-08T22:27:23 -!- mode/##stm32 [-o Steffanx] by Steffanx
2020-01-08T22:28:28 -!- renn0xtk9 [~max@2a02:810d:1540:8ba:1cb3:e6e9:50d0:b238] has joined ##stm32
2020-01-08T22:28:49 < mawk> he was far from finishing
2020-01-08T22:29:09 < mawk> it says "why are we ..."
2020-01-08T22:29:11 < mawk> then I can't read
2020-01-08T22:29:27 < mawk> why are we ...ing this ?
2020-01-08T22:29:49 < Cracki> building
2020-01-08T22:30:10 < Steffanx> Rev. google image search it?
2020-01-08T22:30:14 < Cracki> so you're the only other one who bothered to grab that and look
2020-01-08T22:30:14 < mawk> right
2020-01-08T22:30:20 < mawk> lol
2020-01-08T22:30:21 < mawk> yes
2020-01-08T22:30:25 < Steffanx> ty mawk. 
2020-01-08T22:30:34 < Steffanx> Do you suffer more often for the group?
2020-01-08T22:30:42 < mawk> yes
2020-01-08T22:30:53 < mawk> today I left after everyone to do the dishwasher
2020-01-08T22:30:58 < mawk> and fix the coffee machine
2020-01-08T22:31:03 < mawk> I am a good samaritain
2020-01-08T22:31:25 < Steffanx> hm
2020-01-08T22:32:40 < catphish> he din't come back :'(
2020-01-08T22:32:46 < mawk> yes
2020-01-08T22:32:53 < mawk> he's easily vexed
2020-01-08T22:33:00 < mawk> so he's mad at steffie now
2020-01-08T22:33:01 < catphish> legend says his client is still sending the image
2020-01-08T22:33:03 < Steffanx> He died while posting this.
2020-01-08T22:33:09 < mawk> or maybe he is still pasting the image and output buffer is full
2020-01-08T22:33:25 < mawk> well he only pasted the top 30 lines of pixels or so catphish 
2020-01-08T22:33:29 < mawk> so he had a long way to go
2020-01-08T22:33:30 < Steffanx> He must be dead or mad: [21:26:54] * karlp has been invited to ##stm32
2020-01-08T22:33:34 < catphish> lol
2020-01-08T22:33:34 < mawk> he should've converted to jpg or gif
2020-01-08T22:33:47 < Cracki> it was jpg wasn't it
2020-01-08T22:33:52 < mawk> png
2020-01-08T22:33:57 < mawk> ah no jpeg
2020-01-08T22:33:57 < Steffanx> it says jpeg
2020-01-08T22:33:59 < mawk> sorry
2020-01-08T22:34:02 < mawk> yeah
2020-01-08T22:34:07 < mawk> try to CTCP him
2020-01-08T22:34:11 < mawk> if it answers his buffer is empty and mad
2020-01-08T22:34:14 < mawk> otherwise he's still sending
2020-01-08T22:34:16 < Cracki> I love uncompressed tiff
2020-01-08T22:34:22 < Cracki> those fuckers are memmap-able
2020-01-08T22:34:30 < mawk> I tried, doesn't answer
2020-01-08T22:34:31 < Steffanx> Does not reply mawk
2020-01-08T22:34:33 < mawk> so still sending
2020-01-08T22:34:34 < Steffanx> hah
2020-01-08T22:34:35 < mawk> yeah
2020-01-08T22:34:35 < Cracki> compressed pictures are for plebes
2020-01-08T22:34:36 < Steffanx> or he disable that
2020-01-08T22:34:40 < Steffanx> *disabled.
2020-01-08T22:34:41 < mawk> maybe
2020-01-08T22:34:47 < mawk> but when I disable I put a custom message
2020-01-08T22:34:55 < mawk> and he's tech savvy so the kind to do that
2020-01-08T22:34:57 < mawk> I guess
2020-01-08T22:35:04 < mawk> there's /CTCP karlp TIME also
2020-01-08T22:35:07 < mawk> and other stuff
2020-01-08T22:35:11 < Steffanx> Lets ask the Telegram karlp
2020-01-08T22:35:25 < mawk> omg you're all on a super secret telegram channel and I'm not
2020-01-08T22:35:30 < mawk> I am very mad too now
2020-01-08T22:35:32 < Steffanx> its not secret.
2020-01-08T22:35:36 < mawk> :(
2020-01-08T22:35:56 < Steffanx> Open the telegram, search for stm32.
2020-01-08T22:36:00 < mawk> ic
2020-01-08T22:37:05 < cyb3rtruck> maybe it was the final straw
2020-01-08T22:37:36 -!- karlp [karlp@palmtree.beeroclock.net] has joined ##stm32
2020-01-08T22:37:38 < karlp> sdf
2020-01-08T22:37:56 < cyb3rtruck> wb. we were speculating on the level of rage.
2020-01-08T22:39:00 < antto> karlp ifsiasg02.mp3 iz a cover of a track, you've probably heard the original ;P~
2020-01-08T22:39:47 < karlp> sorry about that all, tried to paste what I _thought_ was a short dataurl, and weechat apparently thought "it's only one line, I'll just keep posting it for them"
2020-01-08T22:40:05 < karlp> antto: yeah, but I can't figure out what track it is, and neither could a friend, but we both know it :)
2020-01-08T22:40:23 < antto> IF - Space Invaders Are Smoking Grass
2020-01-08T22:41:01 < karlp> this is what I was attempting to paste anyway: https://imgflip.com/i/3lk0x1
2020-01-08T22:41:44 < karlp> antto: thanks!
2020-01-08T22:43:44 < mawk> /server deloutq
2020-01-08T22:43:49 < mawk> magical command
2020-01-08T22:44:27 < karlp> mawk: nice thanks
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--- Day changed Thu Jan 09 2020
2020-01-09T00:29:18 < Cracki> hehehee https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DESqNHJ-28k
2020-01-09T00:36:02 -!- fsasm [~fsasm@93-82-85-125.adsl.highway.telekom.at] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds]
2020-01-09T00:56:40 < qyx> connectors are huge
2020-01-09T01:04:28 < cyb3rtruck> BrainDamage: yo. ALARM community is defective or what?
2020-01-09T01:04:38 < cyb3rtruck> rather, the core people
2020-01-09T01:44:02 -!- boB_K7IQ [~boB_K7IQ@VIRGINIA-MA.ear2.Seattle1.Level3.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds]
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2020-01-09T01:53:12 -!- bvernoux [~Ben@88.120.152.126] has quit [Quit: Leaving]
2020-01-09T02:05:13 -!- renn0xtk9 [~max@2a02:810d:1540:8ba:1cb3:e6e9:50d0:b238] has quit [Quit: Konversation terminated!]
2020-01-09T02:11:13 -!- kakimatic [b05d598d@176-93-89-141.bb.dnainternet.fi] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
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2020-01-09T02:24:42 < qyx> where are parents32, innovating?
2020-01-09T02:43:22 < Thorn> if everybody is innovating why aren't we in the future yet
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2020-01-09T03:36:26 -!- Sadale [~Sadale@unaffiliated/sadale] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds]
2020-01-09T03:41:54 < bitmask> hmm, I thought my heaters were more than 17w, how did I screw that up, I can run em all on full power at the same time
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2020-01-09T03:56:35 < cyb3rtruck> Thorn: you need your elysium pass card to submit your innovations
2020-01-09T04:10:03 -!- rene_dev_ [~rene_dev_@87.137.77.98] has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds]
2020-01-09T04:33:14 < dongs> haha asked for 5 pcbs from chinagirl
2020-01-09T04:33:15 < dongs> received 20
2020-01-09T04:38:38 -!- rene_dev_ [~rene_dev_@87.137.77.98] has joined ##stm32
2020-01-09T04:42:53 < Thorn> dongs how much do you pay for a 6/8 layer prototype pcb?
2020-01-09T04:44:59 < dongs> i dont, but if i ever need one ill try taht new chink place you found
2020-01-09T04:45:07 < dongs> locally 6L is $500+ easy
2020-01-09T04:45:08 < dongs> lolz
2020-01-09T04:45:12 < dongs> some people dont mind paying that tho
2020-01-09T04:46:17 -!- Miyu [~hackkitte@2a02:6d40:3089:7101:a0f9:dc58:85aa:fc3c] has joined ##stm32
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2020-01-09T04:50:56 < cyb3rtruck> 6L just seems insanity
2020-01-09T04:51:25 -!- cyb3rtruck is now known as doomba
2020-01-09T04:54:51 < dongs> maybe if youre using eagle
2020-01-09T05:05:38 < bitmask> time to sew...
2020-01-09T05:08:57 -!- Sadale [~Sadale@unaffiliated/sadale] has joined ##stm32
2020-01-09T05:11:10 < doomba> awww look at grandma bitmask over there sewing his heated jacket.
2020-01-09T05:11:31 < doomba> kickass
2020-01-09T05:16:12 < dongs> winter will be over before hes done wiht this autistic proj
2020-01-09T05:16:38 < bitmask> its about done and its not even cold yet :P
2020-01-09T05:17:10 < bitmask> I could use it right now but I want to tidy it up
2020-01-09T05:22:25 < doomba> put it in a box with a letter that says "for the coming mini ice-age" and ship it to greta
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2020-01-09T10:15:46 < jly> I've heard there is this really horny dutch guy on this channel
2020-01-09T10:15:51 < jly> does anybody know who he is?
2020-01-09T10:18:20 < dongs> some kinda blogger
2020-01-09T10:18:37 < Steffanx> Yeah mawk is awful, jly  
2020-01-09T10:20:31 < jly> lol
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2020-01-09T10:23:27 < jadew> dongs, did you get a hang of solidworks?
2020-01-09T10:29:43 < Steffanx> Did you warez SW too now?
2020-01-09T10:29:58 < jadew> I bought a license
2020-01-09T10:30:18 < jadew> (from eBay)
2020-01-09T10:30:29 < jadew> it's legit tho
2020-01-09T10:30:59 < jadew> but I find it a lot more difficult to use than Fusion360
2020-01-09T10:31:50 < jadew> fusion360 is much more intuitive
2020-01-09T10:32:33 < dongs> nah i dont have a usecase for it right now busy with other shit
2020-01-09T10:32:53 < Steffanx> I've used sw mainly and couldn't find my way in fusion360 :P
2020-01-09T10:32:53 < dongs> tryin to figure out this retarded i2c api
2020-01-09T10:32:55 < jadew> it shows that it draws from autocad, which is obviously a well polished product
2020-01-09T10:33:02 < Steffanx> But I didnt really try
2020-01-09T10:33:13 < dongs> how the fuck this code reading 1 byute from i2c to determine how much more shit to read
2020-01-09T10:33:22 < jadew> Steffanx, hah... I've read lots of reviews were people loved it
2020-01-09T10:33:25 < Steffanx> The CAM/manufacturing of fusion360 is awesome though
2020-01-09T10:33:28 < dongs> does the host hold the bus or something while its deciding to read more or not??
2020-01-09T10:34:05 < jadew> dongs, ack/nack?
2020-01-09T10:34:22 < jadew> Steffanx, yeah, if you're doing CNC stuff
2020-01-09T10:34:53 < dongs> oic wat it dos
2020-01-09T10:35:01 < dongs> it actually does multiple reads
2020-01-09T10:35:03 < dongs> lol lunix i2c api
2020-01-09T10:35:14 < dongs> apprently /dev/i2c-whatever read() does a whole start/read/stop thing
2020-01-09T10:35:51 < dongs> so you do read(1), it will start, addr, read 1 byte, stop. then read(10) after will start/addr/read(10)/stop
2020-01-09T10:38:49 < Steffanx> Yes indeed jadew. It's much more beginner friendly and manageable then what SW offers.
2020-01-09T10:54:57 < dongs> atmel definition of "HAL" for i2c devices is very very strange
2020-01-09T10:55:07 < dongs> they keep calling same low-level shit in different functions
2020-01-09T10:55:22 < dongs> whereas i would have preferred to provide a fucking i2cread and i2cwrite and call it a day
2020-01-09T10:56:31 < dongs> today i lit up 12" 2160x1440 panel, it actually looked pretty good
2020-01-09T11:00:18 < dongs> http://bcas.tv/paste/results/CfhAcU63.html hahaha
2020-01-09T11:32:53 < dongs> omfg
2020-01-09T11:33:04 < dongs> this dumb "hal" doesnt even provide a way to pass opaque handle
2020-01-09T11:33:08 < dongs> to the rest of hte code
2020-01-09T11:33:11 < dongs> what the fuck is this shit
2020-01-09T11:35:11 < dongs> there WAS actualyl an attempt to pass such
2020-01-09T11:35:13 < dongs> but there's no way to set it
2020-01-09T11:56:36 < veverak> lol
2020-01-09T12:01:43 < Steffanx> Why are you using Atmel aka micro"shit"?
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2020-01-09T12:49:41 < karlp> heh, stm32wl now.
2020-01-09T12:49:49 < karlp> lora all the things. "because"
2020-01-09T12:53:52 < dongs> man this doesnt make sense
2020-01-09T12:54:04 < dongs> the datasheet is garbage too
2020-01-09T13:02:36 < karlp> "Supported programming languages: Linux"
2020-01-09T13:02:39 < karlp> nice one :)
2020-01-09T13:03:38 < karlp> only provides a .exe of the sdk setup anywya
2020-01-09T13:11:01 < Steffanx> Semtech 126x inside. How fancy.
2020-01-09T13:11:13 < Steffanx> (Or based on but.. probably the same thing)
2020-01-09T13:11:49 < Steffanx> *SX126x
2020-01-09T13:12:04 < jpa-> does anyone even make lora stuff that isn't based on some semtech chip? i.e. do they license their patents out
2020-01-09T13:12:40 < englishman> awesome
2020-01-09T13:12:54 < englishman> st Hal is exactly what lora needed
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2020-01-09T13:14:44 < Steffanx> It still uses SPI. Lol
2020-01-09T13:14:49 < Steffanx> Internally.
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2020-01-09T13:27:25 < dongs> Steffanx: 'inside'? its not a SIP tho.
2020-01-09T13:27:35 < dongs> ST bought (?) the shit from semtech and stuck it on same die
2020-01-09T13:27:58 < dongs> < englishman> st Hal is exactly what lora needed
2020-01-09T13:28:09 < dongs> dont worry my lora pal is already full-speed ahead with st hal + lora
2020-01-09T13:28:29 < dongs> something like 128k binary for jsut stack + hello_world
2020-01-09T13:28:32 < dongs> fucking aids
2020-01-09T13:30:07 < jpa-> dongs: remember that you need linux for it also
2020-01-09T13:30:31 < dongs> ah, the only supported language? yeah
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2020-01-09T13:31:41 < dongs> i wasted like an hour figuring out why this shit wasn't replying
2020-01-09T13:31:56 < dongs> because atmel included like 30 exampels of i2c writes for every fucking retarded system imaginable
2020-01-09T13:34:16 < englishman> did you know msp430 i2c doesn't support repeated start
2020-01-09T13:34:32 < englishman> you have to reset entire periph to go between write and read modes
2020-01-09T13:41:36 < srk> lol
2020-01-09T13:42:41 < jpa-> well that's still better than STM32F1 i2c that doesn't support start, you have to reset the entire peripheral to get it to crash again
2020-01-09T13:43:59 < Steffanx> Pebkac. My i2c works file.
2020-01-09T13:44:06 < Steffanx> Fine even
2020-01-09T13:44:33 < jpa-> you still use f1?
2020-01-09T13:44:41 < Steffanx> It's not even mine. It was by some germans that fucked up. 
2020-01-09T13:44:56 < Steffanx> Nah, older product.
2020-01-09T13:45:13 < srk> I have these working without HAL :D
2020-01-09T13:45:22 < srk> oops, scrollback
2020-01-09T13:53:04 < englishman> a case of www.worksonmymachine.pro ?
2020-01-09T14:26:45 < Steffanx> A case of: Haksell is awesome
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2020-01-09T14:30:23 < BrainDamage> srk: you know those people that go door to door to do religion proselistim? you give the same vibe
2020-01-09T14:30:54 < srk>  /o
2020-01-09T14:30:56 < srk>  \
2020-01-09T14:31:22 < srk> was talking bout sx127x :)
2020-01-09T14:35:19 < Cracki> where's catphish, yt just gave me the perfect video to explain fourier transform https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=spUNpyF58BY
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2020-01-09T15:24:24 < Ultrasauce> snowy morning musicspam https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OIb2tIfms1c
2020-01-09T15:26:24 < dongs> englishman: to be honest 'repeated start' is just a thing , a lot of devices don't support re-sending start without stop
2020-01-09T15:26:34 < dongs> and in that case its just a second transaction
2020-01-09T15:26:48 < dongs> start addr subaddr stop start addr+1 subaddr read read stop
2020-01-09T15:26:57 < karlp> Ultrasauce: heh, local record shop just posted a similar thing, "it's shit snow gale outside, so we're heating things up with a heap of local new metal we just had delivered"
2020-01-09T15:27:11 < dongs> while ~most i2c slaves will still work with start addr subaddr start addr+1 subaddr read read or wahtever
2020-01-09T15:27:39 < karlp> but not all! :) because i2c is amaze
2020-01-09T15:28:30 < dongs> right
2020-01-09T15:31:15 < dongs> er theres no subaddr on the repeat read part.
2020-01-09T15:38:37 < jpa-> some smbus slaves require repeated start, but most others will work with stop+start
2020-01-09T15:38:50 < dongs> you mean an actual true repeated start?
2020-01-09T15:38:54 < dongs> withotu stop?
2020-01-09T15:38:56 < jpa-> yeah
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2020-01-09T15:41:37 < jpa-> IIRC the point is because smbus is designed to be multi-master, so it uses repeated start to eliminate possibility of other masters getting in between, so the spec requires host to use repeated start; and at least bq20z40 refuses to work with separate stop + start
2020-01-09T15:41:47 < dongs> ~ah
2020-01-09T15:48:15 < zyp> fun
2020-01-09T15:53:06 < dongs> nice. trying to use RNG on this thing
2020-01-09T15:53:13 < dongs> returned: FF00FF00
2020-01-09T15:53:24 < dongs> spend 15 mins stepping through code to see whre I fucked up
2020-01-09T15:53:27 < jadew> that's pretty random
2020-01-09T15:53:35 < dongs> read datasheet
2020-01-09T15:53:42 < dongs> "prior to configuration, RNG always returns FF00FF00
2020-01-09T15:53:48 < dongs> motherfucker
2020-01-09T15:54:04 < zyp> have you tried configuring it? :)
2020-01-09T15:54:14 < dongs> havent got that far yet
2020-01-09T15:54:24 < dongs> i think configuration is one time
2020-01-09T15:54:27 < dongs> i dont wanna fuck shit up
2020-01-09T15:55:05 < zyp> wat
2020-01-09T15:55:08 < zyp> as in OTP?
2020-01-09T15:55:10 < dongs> yeah
2020-01-09T15:55:18 < zyp> what are you playing with?
2020-01-09T15:55:21 < dongs> Lock Data and OTP Zone
2020-01-09T15:55:24 < dongs> atsha204
2020-01-09T15:56:22 < zyp> ah
2020-01-09T16:03:34 < Cracki> is that a true random generator, i.e. hardware source of randomness?
2020-01-09T16:03:39 < dongs> yeah
2020-01-09T16:03:42 < jadew> my snowy morning music spam: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y5z7cYSbsFU&list=RDy5z7cYSbsFU&start_radio=1
2020-01-09T16:03:51 < Cracki> wonder why that would need initializing
2020-01-09T16:04:09 < dongs> it doesnt
2020-01-09T16:04:22 < dongs> overall device configuration needs to be initialized
2020-01-09T16:04:22 < Cracki> ffooffoo
2020-01-09T16:04:27 < Cracki> ic
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2020-01-09T17:28:20 < fenugrec> is there such a thing as a pre-crimped (not IDC!) ~ 20-wire cable assemblies, with generic 2-row wire-to-board ends. I can find IDC ribbon cables all day long but crimped, not so much
2020-01-09T17:28:48 < dongs> do you have a pic of wat youre talkin about
2020-01-09T17:29:24 < dongs> https://2.bp.blogspot.com/-yRZQWH51Ro8/WHt4g_VzjiI/AAAAAAAADJs/75TRfcYljmYYfyX0dVq1fft8o2LizEpzQCLcB/s1600/DSCF1758.jpg you not talkin about this right
2020-01-09T17:30:55 < fenugrec> nope, more like https://www.molex.com/mx_upload/family/sherlock/Sherlock_1_RA_35363_hpi.jpg but could be either 1x20 or 2x10, or even just 1x10 and I'll use 2 cables. I'd love not having to crimp 40 wires manually. cable length aroung 100-200mm TBD
2020-01-09T17:31:29 < jpa-> fenugrec: why not just use flex cable?
2020-01-09T17:31:47 < fenugrec> (and "why not IDC" : because they suck, and because 28ga usually)
2020-01-09T17:32:37 < fenugrec> jpa-, too fragile
2020-01-09T17:32:40 < jpa-> ok
2020-01-09T17:33:13 < dongs> fenugrec: just get china to crimp shit for you
2020-01-09T17:33:44 < dongs> https://dirtypcbs.com/store/cables/about
2020-01-09T17:33:45 < dongs> done
2020-01-09T17:34:00 < fenugrec> dongs, I'm leaning towards that, but I'd like the copper to be made of copper, i.e. a certain minimum of quality 
2020-01-09T17:34:02 < Cracki> fenugrec, what's the question? yes I've seen that on aliex, precrimped stuff. there are even websites where you can configure your cables and crimps
2020-01-09T17:34:06 < Cracki> that one
2020-01-09T17:34:15 < fenugrec> oo didn't know there was  "dirty cables"
2020-01-09T17:35:05 < fenugrec> so yeah, custom is definitely a valid option, there's probably too much variety to have an "off the shelf" offering already
2020-01-09T17:35:50 < Cracki> so... 20 contacts?
2020-01-09T17:35:53 < jpa-> https://www.digikey.com/products/en/cable-assemblies/jumper-wires-pre-crimped-leads/453?k=cable%20assembly   digikey also has precrimped wires for many connector types, that you can then poke to a connector housing of the size you want
2020-01-09T17:36:24 < fenugrec> Cracki, yep, ideally
2020-01-09T17:37:14 < fenugrec> jpa-, interesting, didn't think of that. I had only seen DK's fancy shit and IDCs
2020-01-09T17:40:43 < fenugrec> I like how JST haven't changed their website since.. 2003 ? http://www.jst.com/
2020-01-09T17:41:15 < fenugrec> I bet they still have ISA connectors on there
2020-01-09T17:41:34 < dongs> lmao thats such a japanese website
2020-01-09T17:42:15 < dongs> http://www.jst-mfg.com/index.php the jap website isnt uich better
2020-01-09T17:42:49 < fenugrec> well, their shop is more convincing - https://order.jst-mfg.com/InternetShop/app/
2020-01-09T17:45:04 < karlp> what's "suck" about IDC other than thin gauge?
2020-01-09T17:46:31 < karlp> I mean, you can get lots of gauges too, but not as common, just wondering what else is wrong with them
2020-01-09T17:47:07 < fenugrec> karlp, single blade that clamps on a bunch of strands => creepage.
2020-01-09T17:48:36 < fenugrec> *creep, sorry. As in slow deformation causing reduced clamping force
2020-01-09T17:49:23 < karlp> most idc is at least pairs of blades, and stranded always feels like a "ok, if you must" it's normally for soldi core stuff.
2020-01-09T17:49:52 < karlp> so I mean, the "disadgantave" that I know is that they're not really very flexible, but that's pretty use case specific to be a "suck"
2020-01-09T17:54:30 < fenugrec> karlp, isn't the typical 2-row IDC connector just a single blade ? those I've seen anyway
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2020-01-09T17:56:04 < fenugrec> granted, it's possible to make a reliable IDC system http://www.avx.com/products/connectors/wire-to-board/standard-idc-18-24-awg-00-9176/ but they're huge
2020-01-09T17:56:05 < karlp> even if it is, is your creepage concern based on something in particular? are you doing aerospace or hi-rel?
2020-01-09T17:56:51 < karlp> I mean, I like crimped stuff for teh shapes you can get, but I've never considered IDC to be "fail"
2020-01-09T17:57:02 < fenugrec> fair point, I gave about 0 info on the application, but I'm measuring stuff in a battery pack on a vehicle, so some amount of vibration and temp cycling, and I've just repaired an unrelated piece of equipment where an IDC cable failed with both problems I mentioned - loose contact and 28ga breakage
2020-01-09T17:58:20 < karlp> you want this sort of stuff? https://www.samtec.com/products/smsd ?
2020-01-09T17:58:47 < karlp> was the idc cable being bent repeatedly? 
2020-01-09T17:58:51 < fenugrec> that looks like a good candidate, yes
2020-01-09T18:00:05 < karlp> it's probably not for auto, as it doesn't have any latching beyond the friction of the pins on the headers though, if you're really into that sort of shit
2020-01-09T18:00:17 < fenugrec> a bit of locking would be nice
2020-01-09T18:01:17 < fenugrec> those single pre-crimped strands on DK would fit in some JST receptacles that have a locking notch, nice
2020-01-09T18:01:30 < karlp> TE and amp catalogs, and then see what you can get from DK, and/or just send quotes on cable assembly to china..
2020-01-09T18:02:07 < karlp> you're looking just at wire to board, on each end right? nothing else?
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2020-01-09T18:03:04 < fenugrec> correct, W2B both ends
2020-01-09T18:10:55 < dongs> Each byte transmitted or received by the UART corresponds to a single  bit received or transmitted by the device.
2020-01-09T18:10:58 < dongs> nice
2020-01-09T18:11:01 < dongs> what a completely not wasteful protocol
2020-01-09T18:13:53 < fenugrec> can you tunnel the uart traffic through node.js and iot for maximum effect
2020-01-09T18:18:26 < fenugrec> TIL webUSB is a thing
2020-01-09T18:18:36 < dongs> yeha.
2020-01-09T18:20:33 < fenugrec> isn't that like, pure evil
2020-01-09T18:21:08 < dongs> chrome supports opening serial devices too
2020-01-09T18:21:10 < dongs>  for years now
2020-01-09T18:45:37 < dongs> BREAKING: Iranian anti-aircraft missile system, active following Iraq attack, is what shot down the Ukrainian plane in
2020-01-09T18:45:40 < dongs>           Tehran, killing 176 people, Pentagon says; Downing Street also says it is 'very concerned' and aware of the report
2020-01-09T18:49:10 < specing> hilarious if true
2020-01-09T18:50:52 < jadew> dongs, link?
2020-01-09T18:51:32 < jadew> this is what my guess was too
2020-01-09T18:51:54 < jadew> who came up with that information?
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2020-01-09T18:53:09 < Cracki> some meme board for sure
2020-01-09T18:54:02 < fenugrec> they probably FOD'd a drone
2020-01-09T18:56:38 < karlp> this is an iranian AA system sold to them by the US in the past right? :)
2020-01-09T19:02:05 < Steffanx> Lol. Ukraine doing the research. MH17 anyone?
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2020-01-09T19:24:14 < englishman> jpa-: lol at ti bq being incompatible with ti msp
2020-01-09T19:25:13 < englishman> lol Steffanx
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2020-01-09T19:53:31 < Laurenceb> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ccjkfma_0vU&feature=youtu.be
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2020-01-09T19:54:53 < englishman> what are you up to these days Laurenceb
2020-01-09T19:55:10 < Laurenceb> trollin
2020-01-09T19:55:21 < Laurenceb> working on muh house
2020-01-09T19:55:34 < Laurenceb> yesterday I broke the front door
2020-01-09T19:55:43 < Laurenceb> now I have to climb in and out through a window
2020-01-09T19:56:24 < Laurenceb> going to have to try removing the lock mechanism in sections with a dremel, the door is worth about £2k O_o
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2020-01-09T19:57:42 < veverak> how are called the pin headers
2020-01-09T19:57:49 < veverak> that are both female and male?
2020-01-09T19:57:53 < veverak> (so you can make stackable shields)
2020-01-09T19:58:27 < Laurenceb> seems heterostructural tbh
2020-01-09T20:01:29 < antto> eggstenderz
2020-01-09T20:01:57 < srk> veverak: stackable headers
2020-01-09T20:02:39 < veverak> srk: thanks
2020-01-09T20:04:04 < veverak> now to find 1.27mm ones somewhere
2020-01-09T20:04:10 < doomba> headerostackables
2020-01-09T20:05:30 < antto> cvilux, precidip..
2020-01-09T20:05:42 < englishman> have you considered a SAMTEC hermaphroditic mezzanine connector
2020-01-09T20:05:58 < antto> NSFW that sh*t!
2020-01-09T20:06:12 < englishman> from the RAZOR BEAM series
2020-01-09T20:06:37 < veverak> interesting
2020-01-09T20:06:52 < veverak> anything 2x4 small will do tbh
2020-01-09T20:07:36 < antto> i don't like samtec's datasheets
2020-01-09T20:08:08 < qyx> The 1st MCU with an embedded #LoRA transceiver, the #STM32WL , is the next chapter in the popularization of #IoT and sub-gigahertz devices
2020-01-09T20:08:11 < qyx> \o/
2020-01-09T20:08:13 < qyx> englishman: ^
2020-01-09T20:08:24 < englishman> old
2020-01-09T20:08:26 < qyx> :(
2020-01-09T20:08:32 < englishman> scroll up
2020-01-09T20:08:45 < antto> who is lora and are there nude pics of her
2020-01-09T20:08:47 < qyx> oh indeed January 7 at 2:48 PM
2020-01-09T20:09:08 < antto> (will i regret asking?)
2020-01-09T20:10:16 < veverak> englishman: nah, I need some vertical space
2020-01-09T20:11:25 < antto> muh cat wants to ask FedEx sumfin'
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2020-01-09T22:31:57 < Steffanx> Shazammed some random music. This showed up, can't be a coincidence, so dumping it here: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QcJ4evhLcCU
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2020-01-09T22:52:17 < doomba> Steffanx: ok here https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hB9pLJ4N1l8
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2020-01-09T22:58:20 < Steffanx> Timecop did a better job doomba :P
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2020-01-09T22:59:24 < doomba> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5TuvLfzOtQk
2020-01-09T23:00:07 < doomba> i stream this kind of stuff all day
2020-01-09T23:02:33 < doomba> https://somafm.com/suburbsofgoa/
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2020-01-09T23:04:30 < doomba> https://somafm.com/cliqhop/ is a good channel too
2020-01-09T23:05:40 < Ultrasauce> https://beatspace-sangoma.bandcamp.com/album/sangoma-soundsystem-2
2020-01-09T23:09:23 < karlp> apl3511 usb switch turns on in ~200uS.  default power on time that the hub assumes it takes for power to be stable: 100ms
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--- Day changed Fri Jan 10 2020
2020-01-10T00:07:10 < Cracki> so... timer on external clock mode (to count rising edges on a pin). I'd like to switch counting mode to up/down at will, but this seems to force copy ARR to CNT when calling this HAL function:  htim4.Init.CounterMode = pinstate ? TIM_COUNTERMODE_UP : TIM_COUNTERMODE_DOWN;
2020-01-10T00:07:10 < Cracki>  HAL_TIM_Base_Init(&htim4);
2020-01-10T00:07:15 < Cracki> ideas?
2020-01-10T00:12:12 < qyx> only dumb ones
2020-01-10T00:12:18 < Cracki> (stm32f303cb... I think I want to not have a n "update" event)
2020-01-10T00:12:46 < Cracki> kludge would be to grab cnt, do the above, then write back
2020-01-10T00:12:51 < Cracki> I'd like to avoid that
2020-01-10T00:14:58 < Thorn> Cracki: there's some control on when the update event is generated (UG, URS bits iirc, maybe something else)
2020-01-10T00:15:08 < Thorn> udis
2020-01-10T00:15:39 < Cracki> I'll try that
2020-01-10T00:15:51 < Cracki> I'm not sure the "update event" is what I need to avoid
2020-01-10T00:16:29 < Thorn> plus there's control over shadowed/unshadowed mode for CC channels too iirc
2020-01-10T00:17:07 < Cracki> you wouldn't know off the top of your head if HAL even lets me set that
2020-01-10T00:17:45 < Cracki> not using channels, just counting edges. I think I don't have any shadow register for ARR configured
2020-01-10T00:17:47 < Thorn> never used the HAL timer module
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2020-01-10T00:21:10 < Cracki> ook I'll have to circumvent HAL
2020-01-10T00:21:26 < Cracki> dicking around in the timer's CR1 and only touching those bits does what I want
2020-01-10T00:22:19 < Cracki> I was trying to be a good code monkey and use HAL... guess not
2020-01-10T00:22:29 < Thorn> here's some library-less timer initialization if it helps https://gist.github.com/pthorn/3b85e43344006684a7ab112d35902df7
2020-01-10T00:24:15 < Cracki> TIM_Base_SetConfig does TIMx->EGR = TIM_EGR_UG; and that might be fucking things up. it also (needlessly for me) sets ARR
2020-01-10T00:24:37 < Cracki> eh thx I'm good. cubemx generated some code. I just need to flip counting up/down
2020-01-10T00:24:54 < Cracki> it's a stepdir interface. it's ok counting pulses but I need to react to direction signal too
2020-01-10T00:25:03 < Cracki> exti handler already set up
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2020-01-10T01:06:13 < qyx> Cracki: isn't it possible to use the quadrature input hw somehow?
2020-01-10T01:06:32 < qyx> for step/dir
2020-01-10T01:15:27 < Cracki> not for stepdir
2020-01-10T01:15:48 < Cracki> nobody saw a way to use an input to determine counting direction
2020-01-10T01:16:05 < Cracki> stm32f303cb fyi, I would love to be wrong
2020-01-10T01:16:41 < Cracki> I use quadrature already for the quadrature encoder (motor) but stepdir is also desired
2020-01-10T01:17:49 < Cracki> solution: external clock from TI1FP1 (on rising edge), exti on second line to set the right bits in timer's CR1 (stolen from HAL code)
2020-01-10T01:18:40 < Cracki> oh wait... you could be right. its "encoder" mode has a few modes... i shall explore
2020-01-10T01:18:48 < Cracki> thx for making me look again
2020-01-10T01:27:23 < Cracki> lol ok that's exactly those modes I dismissed before and I don't know why...
2020-01-10T01:30:18 < jadew> stupid youtube recommended me an April's fools joke
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2020-01-10T01:30:59 < antto> yougle.. i mean gootube
2020-01-10T01:31:04 < jadew> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d_S9YsD9Y0c
2020-01-10T01:32:19 < Steffanx> I dont want it in my recommendations jadew ;)
2020-01-10T01:34:16 < jadew> it's a video of Dave from eevblog finding a 300k scope in the dumpster
2020-01-10T01:34:30 < jadew> I thought it's a new video, but it was from 2017
2020-01-10T01:41:51 < PaulFertser> "It was Agilent with a capital I"
2020-01-10T01:42:17 < PaulFertser> Nice prank indeed.
2020-01-10T01:44:35 < PaulFertser> I'd say he sounds very convincing.
2020-01-10T01:44:56 < jadew> he does
2020-01-10T01:47:38 < qyx> Cracki: np, sending invoice
2020-01-10T01:56:48 < Cracki> figured it out: encoder modes that aren't quadrature MUST NOT use HAL_TIM_Encoder_Start but HAL_TIM_Base_Start
2020-01-10T01:57:15 < Cracki> hal docs are awful
2020-01-10T01:57:32 < zyp> register docs are good
2020-01-10T01:57:41 < Thorn> +1
2020-01-10T02:00:14 < Cracki> that's like "you don't like your country burning? just move to a neighboring country"
2020-01-10T02:00:29 < Cracki> not saying HAL is my country...
2020-01-10T02:02:11 < Cracki> oook now both ways of HAL don't work, did I not properly rebuild this before uploading...
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2020-01-10T02:07:01 < Cracki> hal seems incapable of configuring this... even though cubemx suggests that it can
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2020-01-10T02:09:08 < Cracki> whatever, kludge it is
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2020-01-10T02:20:43 < dongs> > hal
2020-01-10T02:20:45 < dongs> found your problem
2020-01-10T02:26:35 < jadew> any movies recommendations?
2020-01-10T02:26:43 < jadew> I saw a cure for wellness yesterday, it was ok
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2020-01-10T03:11:33 < Thorn> https://www.facebook.com/STM32/photos/a.150152205025171/3644379408935749/
2020-01-10T03:13:49 < Laurenceb> >another stm32w
2020-01-10T03:13:54 < Laurenceb> how long before they abort it
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2020-01-10T04:35:41 < dongs> why is STM on facebook even
2020-01-10T04:36:23 < Cracki> boomers.
2020-01-10T04:36:37 < doomba> ok zoomer
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2020-01-10T09:32:10 < thardin> boombers
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2020-01-10T10:35:18 < kakibox> it's your kaki in da house
2020-01-10T10:37:02 < kakibox> your boi kaki
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2020-01-10T11:02:28 < Steffanx> Is kakibox alright? Do you know?
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2020-01-10T11:26:18 < kakibox> ofc not
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2020-01-10T12:24:03 < Steffanx> What is wrong mr kakibox  ?
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2020-01-10T13:11:06 < PaulFertser> “This airplane is designed by clowns, who are in turn supervised by monkeys,” one Boeing employee wrote in a 2017 instant message exchange https://www.foxnews.com/us/boeing-employees-mock-faa-clowns-monkeys-737-max
2020-01-10T13:13:47 < qyx> yeah
2020-01-10T13:14:35 < jpa-> i'm surprised they didn't use that in the marketing material
2020-01-10T13:16:12 < PaulFertser> What's strange about this story is that the plane itself seems to be almost fine.
2020-01-10T13:16:49 < PaulFertser> Yes, it was silly for that additional system to rely on a single sensor, no matter if it agrees with the other or not.
2020-01-10T13:17:36 < PaulFertser> But it's not critical in any regard. The MCAS is really slow. And overridable by a trimmer knob under the thumb.
2020-01-10T13:21:42 < PaulFertser> Was there something else problematic about MAXes?
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2020-01-10T13:36:09 < Lux> not critical except that it did override the trimming sequence and made piloting the airplane even worse
2020-01-10T13:36:27 < Lux> iirc by trimming the pilots made it even worse and crashed
2020-01-10T13:37:51 < PaulFertser> Lux: no, any trimming disables MCAS for 10 seconds or so
2020-01-10T13:38:10 < Lux> then it reactivates and trims down even more
2020-01-10T13:38:14 < PaulFertser> Lux: and so any manual trimming action can be used to properly trim the plane
2020-01-10T13:38:37 < Lux> thus the pilot needs even more force to hold the lever
2020-01-10T13:38:43 < Lux> and finally they crashed
2020-01-10T13:39:11 < PaulFertser> Lux: you're mistaken. This system is the same as if a "third pilot" is pressing the trim button (rarely) but promptly stops when you press it yourself.
2020-01-10T13:39:14 < Lux> if manual trimming had solved the problem no plane would have crashed
2020-01-10T13:40:04 < Lux> that boring talk explains it pretty well: https://media.ccc.de/v/36c3-10961-boeing_737max_automated_crashes
2020-01-10T13:40:21 < PaulFertser> Lux: CFIT is not a new thing. MCAS makes it a little bit worse (compared to a fully working aircraft), but not much.
2020-01-10T13:40:53 < PaulFertser> Lux: I haven't watched it yet, but I've read Boeing's bulletins.
2020-01-10T13:41:46 < PaulFertser> Lux: yes, the MCAS tries to trim. You press the button and it stops for a while, you trim it back as needed.
2020-01-10T13:42:05 < Lux> PaulFertser: just watch the talk ;)
2020-01-10T13:42:09 < PaulFertser> And it all happens naturally.
2020-01-10T13:42:15 < Lux> there is more to it what you said
2020-01-10T13:42:27 < PaulFertser> I will but I'm certain I'll come back to argue with you.
2020-01-10T13:42:55 < PaulFertser> Lux: by manual trimming do you mean rotating the wheel manually or just pressing the button?
2020-01-10T13:43:13 < karlp> I like how everyone just assumes that there's NOOOOO other problems with any other boeing planes or any other vendors planes :)
2020-01-10T13:43:31 < karlp> this nice hard dichotomy between "grounded, unsafe" and "perfectly safe"
2020-01-10T13:46:16 < Lux> PaulFertser: in the talk he mentioned both
2020-01-10T13:46:37 < Lux> apparently manual trimming wasn't an option either as the pilot couldn't exert enough force
2020-01-10T13:46:59 < Lux> he also showed a clip in a simulator where they replayed the scenario
2020-01-10T13:47:54 < PaulFertser> Lux: manual trimming is supposed to be used after electrical trimmin is cut off. So you first use the trimming buttons to set it to neutral position, then cut off the electric trim motors.
2020-01-10T13:48:46 < PaulFertser> Lux: and MCAS doesn't anyhow prevent the buttons from working.
2020-01-10T13:48:51 < Lux> or the trimming buttons weren't enough to counteract
2020-01-10T13:49:07 < Lux> just watch the damn video and stop arguing ;)
2020-01-10T13:49:24 < Lux> didn't really care enough that i can recall it exactly
2020-01-10T13:49:32 < PaulFertser> Lux: I want to get some particular statement from you.
2020-01-10T13:49:46 < PaulFertser> So that I can argue with something specific later.
2020-01-10T13:50:29 < PaulFertser> E.g. you state that "trim buttons do not override MCAS inputs" or something else specific like that.
2020-01-10T13:50:53 < Lux> yeah it was something like that
2020-01-10T13:51:06 < Lux> iirc the trim buttons reactivated the mcas from idle
2020-01-10T13:51:32 < Lux> there is a state machine mentioned in the video showing that
2020-01-10T13:52:27 < Lux> so every manual trim by pressing the button is counteracted by the mcas making it even worse
2020-01-10T13:53:02 < Lux> but i'm really just writing what's in the video on the top of my head which might be wrong :)
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2020-01-10T13:54:56 < PaulFertser> OK. My current understanding is that the trim button de-activate mcas fully (for some seconds), and so any trimming in the right direction is improving the situation. If you stop trimming for long enough, then mcas will start trimming it back to the wrong orientation. I guess we have a clear disagreement here. Now I'll go watch the video.
2020-01-10T13:56:38 < jpa-> PaulFertser: IIRC the problem was that after they switched pilot-in-control, the new one didn't hold the trim button long enough - so he trimmed e.g. -5, and MCAS trimmed +10 each time after that, and eventually it drifted to too high angle
2020-01-10T13:57:33 < PaulFertser> jpa-: but not because MCAS is "more powerful" or "faster", just because the other pilot was incapable of flying straight, right?
2020-01-10T13:57:52 < jpa-> PaulFertser: uh, no? just because the trim buttons reactivated the mcas trimming
2020-01-10T13:58:47 < jpa-> so if he didn't press the trim buttons, it would have been fine, just would have to had pull the column stronger; or if he trimmed enough, it would again have been ok; but by trimming just a small amount, he re-activated MCAS every time
2020-01-10T13:59:04 < PaulFertser> jpa-: mcas activates on its own, seeing wrong inputs from alpha sensor (just one was enough!) and starts slowly trimming. Any button press disables it for a while. Then after timeout the alpha reading is still wrong so MCAS does its thing again.
2020-01-10T13:59:23 < PaulFertser> jpa-: ok, so there we disagree too. I'll watch the talk.
2020-01-10T13:59:49 < jpa-> basically MCAS was supposed to have a maximum amount it would trim, but that was reset every time you changed trim manually
2020-01-10T14:00:47 < PaulFertser> That I do not argue with.
2020-01-10T14:00:58 < PaulFertser> But that's not really important since it's trimming very slowly.
2020-01-10T14:01:39 < jpa-> not important how? if the counter didn't reset, the plane wouldn't have crashed
2020-01-10T14:01:48 < PaulFertser> And RUNAWAY STABILIZER is a memory item. You trim it several times manually back, then realise it's RUNAWAY and cut the motors off. Its standard procedure for all 737 planes.
2020-01-10T14:02:30 < jpa-> yeah, i agree if the pilots would have followed a specific set of steps the crash could have been prevented; and not knowing how they were trained, i have no opinion on whether they should have known the steps
2020-01-10T14:02:52 < PaulFertser> They all must have known the steps by heart, it's a memory item.
2020-01-10T14:03:18 < jpa-> ...
2020-01-10T14:05:21 < PaulFertser> What would they do if one of the trim buttons just stuck? It's not like that can't happen with buttons, right?
2020-01-10T14:05:50 < jpa-> either they'd recognize the situation or crash, just like here
2020-01-10T14:05:57 < jpa-> but obviously they didn't recognize the situation
2020-01-10T14:06:27 < jpa-> if you are claiming that the pilots were incompetent or poorly trained, you may be correct and i have no idea whether that is true
2020-01-10T14:06:58 < jpa-> but claiming that the MCAS system wasn't a direct cause of the crash is just false
2020-01-10T14:08:13 < PaulFertser> The same Indonesian plane with exactly the same problem made through its previous flight safe. Because the pilots were doing their job. There're timing diagrams for that previous flight, same deal about trimming. But then they cut the motors off and flew normally to their destination, trimming by turning the wheel as needed.
2020-01-10T14:09:47 < jpa-> and then they failed to do their job, by not informing the maintenance & next crew of the problem
2020-01-10T14:10:28 < PaulFertser> Yes!
2020-01-10T14:10:31 < jpa-> to me it seems they have bad pilots there, and bad pilots combined with bad planes is bad crashes
2020-01-10T14:16:37 < englishman> lol at hearing all the bottles of club-mate rolling around the floor in ccc talks
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2020-01-10T14:35:11 < englishman> "the more you fight it, the more it tries to kill you"
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2020-01-10T15:18:21 < jadew> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z2XUgE6g7XU
2020-01-10T15:25:53 < jadew> guy who normally wears glasses competes in russian MMA competition
2020-01-10T15:26:28 < jadew> name of the video on the official youtube channel: FOUREYES vs MMA Fighter
2020-01-10T15:34:02 < Steffanx> All this fighting crap is boring as hell
2020-01-10T15:35:49 < jadew> I always liked it
2020-01-10T15:36:34 < jadew> there's something mesmerizing about seeing people go to the limits of their physical abilities
2020-01-10T15:37:06 < jadew> they have to plan their energy from minute 1, because they run out of it really fast
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2020-01-10T15:46:37 < PaulFertser> People hammering mice on the head to help MMA fighters: https://www.liebertpub.com/doi/10.1089/hum.2019.174
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2020-01-10T15:48:27 < Steffanx> Lol PaulFertser  
2020-01-10T15:53:01 < jadew> lol
2020-01-10T15:53:23 < jadew> boxers have it worse
2020-01-10T15:54:54 < jadew> probably not worse than the mice, but worse than MMA fighters
2020-01-10T16:01:22 < PaulFertser> "We used 2 impacts/day (6-h interval) for 5 consecutive days, with each mouse receiving a total of 10 impacts." "the head held in place with ear bars with rubber end caps"
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2020-01-10T16:03:57 < thardin> don't hit the mousies
2020-01-10T16:04:11 < jadew> that's the nicest thing they did to them
2020-01-10T16:04:45 < jadew> when they were done, they cut their brains open
2020-01-10T16:05:02 < PaulFertser> Are all the scientists cruel like that?!
2020-01-10T16:05:09 < englishman> did you know
2020-01-10T16:05:14 < englishman> that lab mice are used in labs
2020-01-10T16:05:35 < jadew> I thought they were lab pets
2020-01-10T16:06:09 < jadew> I wonder what they do with the rest of the mouse
2020-01-10T16:06:18 < jadew> maybe feed them to the lab snakes
2020-01-10T16:08:03 < jadew> follow-up research paper: "snakes fed with beat up mice are happier"
2020-01-10T16:09:35 < jadew> "conclusion drawn from studying the gray matter"
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2020-01-10T17:21:15 < jpa-> meh, when using STM32H7 MDMA in linked list mode, it takes close to 200ns after one buffer ends before it is ready to start transferring to the next one
2020-01-10T17:22:03 < jpa-> (that is close to 50 bus cycles, which seems quite much considering it only loads 10 words of config)
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2020-01-10T17:33:32 < doomba> s/transferring/rolling
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2020-01-10T17:38:14 < jpa-> i guess i'll have to fake ring-buffer mode with block repeat address update
2020-01-10T17:41:35 < jpa-> but that gets annoying also as there is no half-transfer interrupt flag
2020-01-10T17:48:31 < Steffanx> It what you get when  you do drugs
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2020-01-10T17:54:12 < austriancoder> should latest kernel mainline master light up and use the display of the STM32MP157C-DK2 ?
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2020-01-10T18:33:58 < karlp> what's in the latest kernel mainline master dts for that board?
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2020-01-10T18:43:07 < austriancoder> that: https://git.kernel.org/pub/scm/linux/kernel/git/torvalds/linux.git/tree/arch/arm/boot/dts/stm32mp157c-dk2.dts?h=v5.5-rc5
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2020-01-10T18:52:12 < karlp> so, looks likt it's whatever dk1 is, plus touch and a display? so, wht's the question?
2020-01-10T18:59:32 < austriancoder> karlp: if I boot this upstream kernel my tft display stays black and I want it to work
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2020-01-10T19:04:31 < austriancoder> http://dpaste.com/211C7H3
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2020-01-10T19:09:26 < austriancoder> panel driver is not loaded.. hmm..
2020-01-10T19:26:08 < Cracki> studio ghibli https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SIGQSgifs6s
2020-01-10T19:26:53 < Cracki> https://vimeo.com/207614041
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2020-01-10T19:30:16 < englishman> The Aegis System software reuses tracking numbers in its display, constituting a user interface design flaw. The Aegis software initially assigned on-screen identifier TN4474 to Flight 655. Then just seconds before the Vincennes fired, the Aegis software switched the Flight 655 tracking number to TN4131 and recycled Flight 655's old tracking number of TN4474 to label a fighter jet 110 miles away. When the
2020-01-10T19:30:16 < englishman> captain asked for a status on TN4474, he was told it was a fighter and descending.[44] Scientific American rated it as one of the worst user interface disasters.
2020-01-10T19:30:23 < englishman> bad ui KILLS
2020-01-10T19:33:25 < Steffanx> Hm
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2020-01-10T19:50:02 < qyx> Guru Meditation Error: Core  0 panic'ed (IllegalInstruction). Exception was unhandled.
2020-01-10T19:50:12 < qyx> meh arduino style coding
2020-01-10T19:50:17 < qyx> what does that even mean
2020-01-10T19:59:37 < Cracki> anyone know anything about V_{DD_FT}, the rail that five-volt tolerant pins are diode-clamped to? my RM mentions it once, in " Basic structure of a five-volt tolerant I/O port bit" but doesn't say where it goes, except it's "different from vdd"
2020-01-10T20:05:17 < jpa-> Cracki: typically it would be connected to ground with a 5V zener
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2020-01-10T21:01:02 < Laurenceb> Grenfell style!
2020-01-10T21:02:30 < bitmask> whats up bitches
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2020-01-10T21:36:47 < Steffanx> sky?
2020-01-10T21:40:34 < kakibox> ceiling first
2020-01-10T21:40:50 < specing> lamp first
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2020-01-10T21:42:01 < kakibox> kaki-10kg
2020-01-10T21:42:17 < kakibox> i'm in under 80kg club
2020-01-10T21:42:43 < kakibox> it's time since I was under 80kg
2020-01-10T21:42:56 < kakibox> it was first year of high school maybe
2020-01-10T21:43:02 < kakibox> *college sorry
2020-01-10T21:43:14 < BrainDamage> is the fat needed for cold insulation?
2020-01-10T21:43:37 < kakibox> it's what slightly overweight would use as excuse
2020-01-10T21:44:04 < kakibox> sure it works but
2020-01-10T21:44:46 < kakibox> when was the last time you were hypothermic?
2020-01-10T21:45:29 < BrainDamage> having shivers is classified as light hypothermia
2020-01-10T21:45:44 < BrainDamage> so that'd make it, last week
2020-01-10T21:45:58 < Steffanx> is kakibox alright? Do you know?
2020-01-10T21:46:36 < kakibox> he is not available I will pass your message
2020-01-10T21:48:02 < Steffanx> When will he be available?
2020-01-10T21:48:11 < Steffanx> kakibox is away much lately
2020-01-10T21:50:41 < kakibox> presense of kakibox further on this timeline is uncertain
2020-01-10T21:57:41 < Steffanx> hm, is he dying?
2020-01-10T21:58:59 < Steffanx> dont let kakimir die, kakibox
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2020-01-10T22:45:50 < Thorn> has anyone used esp-adf (audio framework)?
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2020-01-10T22:46:25 < qyx> no but I am fighting esp-idf atm
2020-01-10T22:52:06 < englishman> wow zynq is super cool
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2020-01-10T23:12:01 < Laurenceb> does esp even have an adc yet?
2020-01-10T23:13:10 < Laurenceb> extra spastic processor
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2020-01-10T23:35:26 < Cracki> lifehack: match color of cat to color of clothes, hair becomes invisible!
2020-01-10T23:35:33 < Cracki> (also cat becomes invisible)
2020-01-10T23:37:30 < qyx> (vlozrd nrvomr vsusmlr)
2020-01-10T23:37:34 < qyx> uhm
2020-01-10T23:37:40 < qyx> (clothes become catable)
2020-01-10T23:38:04 < Steffanx> kik
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2020-01-10T23:50:21 -!- mawk is now known as screaming-fast
2020-01-10T23:51:42 < qyx> so my esp32-cam works
2020-01-10T23:52:13 < qyx> had to change -Og to -Os in order to prevent random illegal instruction errors and reboots
2020-01-10T23:56:48 < Steffanx> Uhm... what?
2020-01-10T23:57:16 < qyx> don't ask me
2020-01-10T23:57:24 < qyx> I am not an esp32 expert
2020-01-10T23:58:00 < qyx> I just downloaded esp-idf, toolchain and rest of the stuff
2020-01-10T23:58:20 < qyx> followed some make:r's tutorial
2020-01-10T23:58:28 < qyx> no worky, reboot loop
2020-01-10T23:58:55 < qyx> disabled -Og and it startted working instantly
--- Day changed Sat Jan 11 2020
2020-01-11T00:03:29 -!- screaming-fast is now known as mawk
2020-01-11T00:04:00 < mawk> that's not a good sign
2020-01-11T00:04:28 < mawk> a nasty bug is waiting around the corner to eat you alive
2020-01-11T00:04:35 < mawk> debug this now that the program is short
2020-01-11T00:05:04 < mawk> or go to programmer hell
2020-01-11T00:05:08 -!- bitmask [~bitmask@c-73-215-237-27.hsd1.nj.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: Gone to sleep...]
2020-01-11T00:05:19 < mawk> "vlozrd" too much consonnants in your language
2020-01-11T00:09:42 < Steffanx> Move your finger one to the left and type that word again, mawk
2020-01-11T00:09:59 < Steffanx> Of your left hand
2020-01-11T00:10:26 < mawk> cloaes
2020-01-11T00:10:29 < mawk> like this?
2020-01-11T00:10:32 < karlp> cki<es?
2020-01-11T00:10:34 < mawk> I have a azerty keyboard
2020-01-11T00:10:37 < Steffanx> Unless you took your azerty k  with you
2020-01-11T00:10:41 < mawk> lol
2020-01-11T00:10:46 < mawk> I even take it to work
2020-01-11T00:10:52 < Steffanx> Lolno
2020-01-11T00:10:55 < mawk> now everytime someone types something on my computer they don' get it
2020-01-11T00:10:57 < Steffanx> Fires.
2020-01-11T00:11:02 < Steffanx> Fired. Even.
2020-01-11T00:19:10 < Cracki> >Pages
2020-01-11T00:19:10 < Cracki> with long-lived data do not endure as many write cycles as pages that contain frequently
2020-01-11T00:19:10 < Cracki> updated data. 
2020-01-11T00:19:17 < Cracki> thanks ST for your bad english.
2020-01-11T00:19:31 < Cracki> s/endure/suffer under/
2020-01-11T00:19:51 < Cracki> they all are supposed to *endure* the specified number of cycles
2020-01-11T00:20:02 < karlp> are you suggesting that "suffer under" would be "better english" there?
2020-01-11T00:31:01 < mawk> I guess they mean that they don't undergo as mean write cycles as frequently updated pages
2020-01-11T00:31:05 < mawk> so they live longer
2020-01-11T00:31:09 < Cracki> right
2020-01-11T00:31:55 < Cracki> but the meaning of "endurance" in this context would allow you to misunderstand the sentence and hear "pages age quicker if they have infrequently updated data"
2020-01-11T00:32:25 < mawk> yeah
2020-01-11T00:32:29 < Cracki> which is obviously silly but still I'd like to read a sentence and not be led around
2020-01-11T00:32:48 < karlp> Cracki:, I think that's exactly what they are saying though.
2020-01-11T00:32:55 < karlp> because aiui, that's true.
2020-01-11T00:33:32 < mawk> I don't think so
2020-01-11T00:33:34 < mawk> at least from english alone
2020-01-11T00:33:41 < mawk> to endure means to under go, to suffer, to take, whatever
2020-01-11T00:33:46 < mawk> they don't take as many write cycles, which seem obvious
2020-01-11T00:33:47 < karlp> well, flash does decay, and need to be re-written.
2020-01-11T00:33:49 < mawk> since they are not updated
2020-01-11T00:33:54 < karlp> re-writing it helps keep things.
2020-01-11T00:34:30 < mawk> I see
2020-01-11T00:34:54 < Cracki> their use of 'endure' is almost a false friend. it's a word with subtle meanings and they use the dictionary meaning, which misses a lot
2020-01-11T00:35:12 < Cracki> they should employ some professional english writers for that stuff
2020-01-11T00:35:28 < karlp> it's a datasheet, I think they are only concerned with the meaning of the words in the context given....
2020-01-11T00:35:38 < mawk> well I guess a french wrote that
2020-01-11T00:35:41 < karlp> endure is a specific term in flash, I don't see what the "false friend" is.
2020-01-11T00:35:44 < mawk> "endurer" is pretty common to mean go under
2020-01-11T00:35:45 < Cracki> french or italian :P
2020-01-11T00:35:48 < mawk> or take
2020-01-11T00:35:50 < mawk> yeah
2020-01-11T00:36:05 < karlp> it's not ideal, but "suffer under" is a different meaning altogether, and still unclear
2020-01-11T00:36:17 < Cracki> 'endure' implies that the page comes out alive on the other side of the cycle
2020-01-11T00:36:28 < mawk> the false friend comes from the proximity between endure and endurance
2020-01-11T00:36:29 < Cracki> not that it gets tortured less
2020-01-11T00:36:32 < mawk> which have two different meanings
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2020-01-11T00:36:48 < mawk> "endure" looks like "suffer" but it's not
2020-01-11T00:36:59 < Cracki> that's not even a false friend, the words do share meaning, a large part even
2020-01-11T00:37:05 < karlp> no?
2020-01-11T00:37:10 < Cracki> but subtlety...
2020-01-11T00:37:13 < karlp> suffer is just take pain, endure is withstand.
2020-01-11T00:37:22 < karlp> and endure _is_ the flash terminology
2020-01-11T00:37:26 < karlp> why would you bring suffering into it?
2020-01-11T00:38:10  * karlp is about to prolong autism by redoing a sch symbol.... is it really worth it? who knows!
2020-01-11T00:41:03 < Cracki> crows in the yard. must be a blind one. they aren't supposed to be active at this time of night
2020-01-11T00:41:16 < catphish> zyp: your package has arrived!
2020-01-11T00:41:34 < catphish> hope it works!
2020-01-11T00:43:10 < mawk> what does he sell ?
2020-01-11T00:43:13 < mawk> I want one too
2020-01-11T00:43:45 < Cracki> oh hey catphish, saw a video on fourier transforms yesterday. made me think of the discussion recently. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=spUNpyF58BY
2020-01-11T00:44:22 < Cracki> it explains how to extract frequencies (and phases) from an arbitrary signal
2020-01-11T00:44:29 < catphish> oo fourier transform
2020-01-11T00:44:35 < mawk> ooo
2020-01-11T00:44:46 < mawk> our man joseph
2020-01-11T00:44:47 < catphish> i must learn how that works
2020-01-11T00:45:02 < mawk> do some maths
2020-01-11T00:45:11 < mawk> you did some linear algebra ?
2020-01-11T00:45:15 < Cracki> nah, watch the video, it'll give you the intuition, and then the math is obvious
2020-01-11T00:45:17 < mawk> like decomposition of a vector on a basis
2020-01-11T00:45:32 < mawk> the finite dimension case makes it very intuitive
2020-01-11T00:45:46 < mawk> you have a vector, you can decompose it into x and y, even a child gets that
2020-01-11T00:46:19 < Cracki> math prof: oh you need a concrete example? all right, let's take some vector from K^n...
2020-01-11T00:46:24 < mawk> lol
2020-01-11T00:46:55 < mawk> I wanted to become a maths teacher/researcher at some point
2020-01-11T00:47:17 < mawk> I was tutoring lots of people and some people were pushing me to do that seeing how I did
2020-01-11T00:47:23 < catphish> i'm reasonably good at tecahning tech, but screw maths
2020-01-11T00:47:31 < Cracki> if you're any better at explaining than the ivory basement dwellers we have at my institution, please do
2020-01-11T00:47:44 < Cracki> math is code
2020-01-11T00:48:17 < Cracki> people can teach programming wrong too, like math is taught wrong
2020-01-11T00:48:37 < Cracki> *math is commentless code
2020-01-11T00:48:43 < mawk> lol
2020-01-11T00:48:54 < mawk> when you have a teacher it's like having the comments
2020-01-11T00:49:08 < mawk> he can make gestures and analogies and drawings and break down in simpler problems to make you understand
2020-01-11T00:49:19 < mawk> it's supposed to be his very job
2020-01-11T00:49:25 < mawk> at least when he's good
2020-01-11T00:49:31 < Cracki> srsly job interviews should grade the applicant on not just his ability to write good code, but on his unwillingness to write badly commented code
2020-01-11T00:49:51 < Cracki> indeed
2020-01-11T00:50:08 < karlp> heh, that was (hopefully) the best less I gave to an ex colleague
2020-01-11T00:50:10 < Cracki> people at my uni learn from teaching assistants because they don't have their head in the clouds yet
2020-01-11T00:50:18 < karlp> "the person after you knows where you live and has an axe"
2020-01-11T00:50:23 < karlp> and "that person is also you!"
2020-01-11T00:52:24 < Cracki> cat learns loop https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zFhXRB_Fw90
2020-01-11T01:00:04 < Thorn> are the cables actually different between the 2 versions? https://www.aliexpress.com/item/4000069063127.html
2020-01-11T01:01:05 < karlp> Thorn: sigrok wiki has some stuff on the dslogic cable variants iirc
2020-01-11T01:01:59 < karlp> if it's now usb-c, that's yet another variant though, be nice if they stopped just calling them all "dslogic"
2020-01-11T01:02:57 < Cracki> only diff I see is memory went from 256k to 256M (!) and a bit higher sampling clock
2020-01-11T01:03:19 < Cracki> where do you get that cables should be different?
2020-01-11T01:04:07 < Thorn> I hope I can solder the sdram and change a byte or 2 in the eeprom and make the expensive variant from the cheap one
2020-01-11T01:04:27 < mawk> good luck finding which one
2020-01-11T01:04:37 < karlp> #sigrok might know more, though they're a little caustic to the idea of dslogic getting any money
2020-01-11T01:05:02 < Thorn> as per https://habr.com/ru/post/445024/ for example
2020-01-11T01:05:28 < Thorn> is dslogic receiving money from aliexpress sales?
2020-01-11T01:06:00  * karlp shrugs
2020-01-11T01:06:19 < karlp> depending on whether abraxa is aroudn or not, you'll get caustic reception just at the mention of dslogic :)
2020-01-11T01:09:01 < Cracki> >I ask for a cat.
2020-01-11T01:09:28 < Cracki> translation must be quite lossy
2020-01-11T01:10:43 < Cracki> прошу под кат
2020-01-11T01:11:40 < catphish> that video is awesome
2020-01-11T01:14:52 < mawk> proshu pod kat ?
2020-01-11T01:15:01 < mawk> or something
2020-01-11T01:15:25 < Cracki> seems to mean "more after the cut" (break to separate article abstract from body)
2020-01-11T01:17:17 < karlp> htf am I meant to add a sheet to a kicad sch?!
2020-01-11T01:17:53 < zyp> catphish, yeah, I picked it up earlier, haven't had time to open it yet, will do tomorrow
2020-01-11T01:18:02 < mawk> what do you sell zyp ?
2020-01-11T01:18:12 < catphish> zyp: cool
2020-01-11T01:18:12 < zyp> I don't sell, I bought
2020-01-11T01:19:22 < mawk> a
2020-01-11T01:20:44 < Cracki> someone must have monitored the tracking
2020-01-11T01:24:17 < catphish> someone did :)
2020-01-11T01:25:02 < karlp> I'm curious too now, was this an over controller untested?
2020-01-11T01:30:24 < zyp> my package?
2020-01-11T01:30:53 < zyp> just some random shit from ebay
2020-01-11T01:32:06 < karlp> no, from catphish?
2020-01-11T01:32:16 < zyp> yes, that
2020-01-11T01:32:37 < zyp> ebay seller wanted 80 GBP or some shit to ship to norway, free UK shipping
2020-01-11T01:32:38 < catphish> boring off topic shit
2020-01-11T01:32:40 < karlp> oh, did you paste your tracking number earlier?
2020-01-11T01:32:47 < karlp> and catphish watched it?
2020-01-11T01:33:02 < zyp> so I asked catphish to forward it
2020-01-11T01:33:02 < catphish> i reshipped it for him
2020-01-11T01:34:13 < karlp> ah.  yar, shipito and myus are not real cheap.
2020-01-11T01:34:23  * karlp is waiting on his first tiptrans shipment to arrive
2020-01-11T01:34:33 < karlp> (they don'ðt have a us address either)
2020-01-11T01:34:57 < zyp> I've used stuff like that from US before
2020-01-11T01:35:05 < zyp> but I'm not aware of anything in the UK
2020-01-11T01:40:19 < karlp> tiptrans gives me uk, germany, czech, hongkong and shenzen
2020-01-11T01:42:20 < catphish> the uk seems to be a weirdly good source for stuff
2020-01-11T01:42:35 < catphish> which is surprising to me, since it's a pretty obscure corner of europe
2020-01-11T01:42:52 < catphish> but i guess it's on the way to north america
2020-01-11T01:43:29 < karlp> good for somethings, completely useless for others, it's definitely a special little place in the world
2020-01-11T01:45:15 < Cracki> uk, obscure corner? I have never heard anyone call it that
2020-01-11T01:50:27 < karlp> you have now :)
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2020-01-11T02:58:12 < Thorn> spacex is hiring https://www.instagram.com/p/B7JtBlkhKuE/
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2020-01-11T03:13:25 < dongs> o shit
2020-01-11T03:13:33 < dongs> segger embedded studio has one click keil project import
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2020-01-11T03:30:36 < mawk> o
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2020-01-11T05:04:06 < dongs> karlp: coreelec install was pretty much painless 1click
2020-01-11T05:04:58 < dongs> and its way faster
2020-01-11T05:05:03 < dongs> snappy GUI
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2020-01-11T07:14:16 < englishman> coreelec is the old libreelec?
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2020-01-11T07:21:50 < dongs> yes
2020-01-11T07:21:57 < dongs> with amlogic improvements
2020-01-11T07:22:01 < dongs> cuz libre wasnt free enough i guess
2020-01-11T07:22:11 < dongs> because in typical spirit of opensores trash
2020-01-11T07:22:16 < dongs> isntead of improving something
2020-01-11T07:22:19 < dongs> you just fork it and make new shit
2020-01-11T07:22:23 < dongs> and make new donate buttons
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2020-01-11T09:24:10 < dongs> https://www.anandtech.com/show/15368/ces-2020-evga-showcases-new-nu-audio-pro-successor-card
2020-01-11T09:24:13 < dongs> haha
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2020-01-11T10:43:23 < jadew> I'm still using the audio card I bought more than 15 years ago
2020-01-11T10:43:43 < jadew> and it was like... $20
2020-01-11T11:04:34 < srk> https://www.amazon.com/FiiO-K5-AK4493EQ-Amplifier-Headphone/dp/B07WT7TYWY
2020-01-11T11:04:35 < srk> haha
2020-01-11T11:04:43 < srk>  48kHz and Below:Blue light flashing 
2020-01-11T11:04:43 < srk> epic
2020-01-11T11:04:58 < srk> 48kHz and above: Yellow light flashing,  DSD: Green light flashing :D:D
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2020-01-11T13:02:34 < srk> In order to calculate parity bit, “exclusive NOR” operations are performed as follow: <colorful diagram>
2020-01-11T13:02:37 < srk> ffs
2020-01-11T13:03:39 < zyp> and the problem is you're colorblind or what?
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2020-01-11T13:08:29 < srk> my xnorBits is bugged!
2020-01-11T13:08:45 < srk>  λ: foldl (\acc x -> 1 - (x `xor` acc)) 1 $ map (\i -> (0b10011001 `shiftR` i) .&. 0b1) [1..7]
2020-01-11T13:08:49 < srk> 1
2020-01-11T13:08:51  * srk hides
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2020-01-11T13:29:59 < Jak_o_Shadows> Hmm.
2020-01-11T13:30:14 < Jak_o_Shadows> Can i reply on MOSI to return to zero after I finish transferring some data?
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2020-01-11T13:35:49 < kakibox> what?
2020-01-11T13:36:45 < Jak_o_Shadows> For SPI, using the DMA to feed data, in transfer only, what state does MOSI get left in?
2020-01-11T13:38:17 < Jak_o_Shadows> I'm only using the SPI peripheral as a way to get data out fast
2020-01-11T13:38:22 < Jak_o_Shadows> not actually the SPI protocol
2020-01-11T13:38:32 < kakibox> but actually using SPI protocol
2020-01-11T13:38:40 < Jak_o_Shadows> So it isn't being gated by CLK or slave select
2020-01-11T13:38:49 < kakibox> do you have logic analyzer
2020-01-11T13:39:01 < Jak_o_Shadows> Yeah, and scope.
2020-01-11T13:39:12 < Jak_o_Shadows> It seems to be getting left in the state corresponding to the last data you sent
2020-01-11T13:39:25 < kakibox> slave mode?
2020-01-11T13:39:55 < zyp> Jak_o_Shadows, yes
2020-01-11T13:40:04 < Jak_o_Shadows> kakibox, master
2020-01-11T13:40:13 < Jak_o_Shadows> ah, ok. There isn't any setting I can do to change that?
2020-01-11T13:42:39 < jpa-> you could make sure to send 0 bit last
2020-01-11T13:43:08 < Jak_o_Shadows> Yeah.
2020-01-11T13:43:15 < Jak_o_Shadows> This isn't really a problem for the real use I guess.
2020-01-11T13:43:21 < Jak_o_Shadows> Cause that's an easy enough thing to do.
2020-01-11T13:43:31 < Jak_o_Shadows> But makes debugging a slight bit more annoying
2020-01-11T13:46:18 < jpa-> i guess it might be possible to have the MOSI pin tri-stated after transfer, by enabling the multi-master mode
2020-01-11T13:51:54 < Jak_o_Shadows> Meh. I think I can just send 0 bit last, and that'll be fine.
2020-01-11T14:09:16 < qyx> Jak_o_Shadows: yes, it is left in the last bit's state
2020-01-11T14:09:43 < Jak_o_Shadows> Cool.
2020-01-11T14:09:56 < Jak_o_Shadows> Good to know that I wasn't missing some configuration setting or something
2020-01-11T14:10:09 < qyx> jpa-: interesting, I was doing SPI multi master but somehow I failed at that point
2020-01-11T14:10:25 < qyx> because iirc I was setting the gpio mode explicitly after transfer completed
2020-01-11T14:10:38 < jpa-> qyx: i haven't used it either, not sure how it works
2020-01-11T14:25:49 < Jak_o_Shadows> I'm just using it to shove out data at 36 MHz on a 72 MHz chip.
2020-01-11T14:26:21 < Jak_o_Shadows> Maybe you could con the FSMC to do better, but I don't have one of those.
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2020-01-11T14:49:55 < jpa-> Jak_o_Shadows: nah, FSMC is quite slow and it is also hard to control the timing with it
2020-01-11T14:54:32 < jpa-> DMA+GPIO is good to about Fbus/10, DMA+FSMC works to about Fbus/6, SPI to Fbus/2, LTDC to about 150MHz, QUADSPI to about 200MHz
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2020-01-11T14:59:25 < Jak_o_Shadows> ah, cool.
2020-01-11T15:00:12 < Jak_o_Shadows> I mean, for a work thing, I would suggest trying to upgrade chip before trying to go too crazy/too tight.
2020-01-11T15:00:20 < Jak_o_Shadows> Then hope you use less power by having more idle time
2020-01-11T15:00:28 < Jak_o_Shadows> Does that sound right?
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2020-01-11T15:01:36 < jpa-> Jak_o_Shadows: sometimes, but power usage vs. performance varies a lot in different STM32 models
2020-01-11T15:02:13 < Jak_o_Shadows> Yeah.
2020-01-11T15:02:42 < Jak_o_Shadows> I really should try to get the battery powered alarm clock using less power
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2020-01-11T15:13:44 < karlp> usb standard green/amber are pretty boring.
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2020-01-11T15:16:04 < karlp> green is on, amber is overcurrent.  you can blink amber for "hw fault" and green for "sw fault".  
2020-01-11T15:18:49 < karlp> hubs "other" led mode is just "off, ls/fs/hs" which I suppose is nicer, but doesn't seem to be available via pin strapping. requires the eeprom. boo
2020-01-11T15:19:26 < srk> quick add some blue
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2020-01-11T15:26:29 < karlp> if I set it to the "speed indicator" mode, then it doesn't allow manual control of them either
2020-01-11T15:26:39 < karlp> though why you need to manually control port leds, I don't really know.
2020-01-11T15:26:52 < karlp> speed indicator sounds nicer...
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2020-01-11T15:27:47 < jpa-> is karlp building an usb hub for me?
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2020-01-11T15:29:30 < karlp> https://imgur.com/a/cm0kceE that only works to have both leds "off" when the pin is tristated because the top diode adds  yet another diode drop and from 3.3v there's not enough left to light up both leds?
2020-01-11T15:30:13 < karlp> not necessarily for you, but sure...
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2020-01-11T15:31:53 < jpa-> i bought a 7-port $4 hub from ebay; had to resolder the cable and even then it negotiates as high-speed on host side but fails the HS handshake on device side
2020-01-11T15:36:09 < karlp> is there anything like a standard package for dual leds?
2020-01-11T15:37:42 < karlp> almost looks like 2 0603 discretes is cheaper, and I can probably use shit I've got lying around
2020-01-11T15:38:26 < jpa-> there are also higher voltage red leds so that you could do away with the extra diode
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2020-01-11T15:44:29 < qyx> karlp: I concluded the same
2020-01-11T15:44:52 < qyx> there are so many dual/rgb LED packages I gave up finding a suitable one
2020-01-11T15:45:05 < qyx> two 0603 are more available and cheaper probably
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2020-01-11T15:46:59 < karlp> qyx: nice, always good to hear what you've already decided :)
2020-01-11T15:47:01 < qyx> zyp: did you manage to put a diff trace between two pcie tht pads? https://i.imgur.com/erCw1dn.png
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2020-01-11T15:54:29 < qyx> karlp: what are you innovating
2020-01-11T15:54:42 < karlp> not innovating shit.
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2020-01-11T15:56:01 < karlp> http://palmtree.beeroclock.net/~karlp/usb-test-harness.pdf so far.
2020-01-11T15:56:08 < karlp> still needs the power section done and few more bits.
2020-01-11T15:56:12 < karlp> "just a hub"
2020-01-11T15:56:27 < karlp> but with "proper" per port pwoer switching
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2020-01-11T15:57:37 < karlp> and have to figure out what I'm doing with shields.
2020-01-11T15:57:55 < qyx> let me know when you find out
2020-01-11T15:58:04 < qyx> such funny
2020-01-11T15:58:08 < qyx> comments
2020-01-11T15:59:05 < karlp> turns out kicad cant' "just have an extra sheet"
2020-01-11T16:01:03 < karlp> looking like doing 12ish volt in to get enough power to make sure I can give enough to every port, so still have some fun picking a buck regulator
2020-01-11T16:01:30 < qyx> tps62125 not enuff probably
2020-01-11T16:01:31 < karlp> and then, because why not, at least consider making it a size that fits in some sort of readile available case.
2020-01-11T16:01:42 < karlp> going to go for china stuff mostly,
2020-01-11T16:01:49 < qyx> so no tps :/
2020-01-11T16:01:59 < karlp> only using the microchip hub because it's less hassle with non-removable and config shit for cascaded hubs
2020-01-11T16:02:17 < karlp> that's only 300ma?!
2020-01-11T16:02:26 < karlp> that won't even be good enough for the 3.3 supply for the hub :)
2020-01-11T16:02:42 < karlp> let alone the vbus supply for 7 downstream ports :)
2020-01-11T16:03:48 < karlp> 7 HS ports is at ~460mA max, 420mA typ
2020-01-11T16:04:18 < qyx> yeah I am usually doing lower power, so no high amperage bucks in my memory
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2020-01-11T16:29:29 < karlp> hrm, do I want power power indicators _as_well_ ?
2020-01-11T16:34:01 < karlp> seems excessive really.
2020-01-11T16:34:51 < karlp> also, yar, 7x2A makes serious power if you even consider letting them all draw that much at a time
2020-01-11T16:35:16 < karlp> even with 1A port controllers is still crazy much.
2020-01-11T16:35:31 < karlp> but that's external supplies problem :)
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2020-01-11T17:25:03 < doomba> https://www.onsemi.com/pub/Collateral/FXL6408-D.pdf
2020-01-11T17:25:07 < doomba> what do you think of this part?
2020-01-11T17:26:02 < doomba> the gl-ar750s has a header exposing uart RX/TX, GND, SDA, SCL, GND, 3.3V
2020-01-11T17:26:12 < doomba> not in that order but it's uart and i2c
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2020-01-11T17:27:54 < doomba> i want to use the uart to bridge over to lora module and then i2c through this gpio expander to drive boot0 of f030 so i can enter bootloader to flash it.
2020-01-11T17:32:53 < srk> you can instead try jumping to internal bootloader directly (after configuring mcu to its (default) boot state)
2020-01-11T17:41:12 < dongs> that looks like an extremely terrible part to design in
2020-01-11T17:41:16 < dongs> from a single manufacturer and expensive
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2020-01-11T20:44:15 < zyp> qyx, haven't gotten as far as routing yet
2020-01-11T20:44:36 < qyx> we computed some clearances recently
2020-01-11T20:44:40 < qyx> idk what was that exactly
2020-01-11T20:45:44 < zyp> I'm probably gonna finish the network card before the backplane
2020-01-11T20:46:22 < qyx> I have 3 cards finished + the backplane
2020-01-11T20:46:30 < qyx> I just connected ethernets of the first two slots together
2020-01-11T20:46:44 < zyp> are you doing 2L on everything?
2020-01-11T20:46:54 < zyp> or 4L?
2020-01-11T20:46:56 < qyx> for the start, yes
2020-01-11T20:47:11 < qyx> after the first protos I will redo them on 4L probably
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2020-01-11T20:48:24 < zyp> doing 2L first and redesigning with 4L sounds a bit disingenous :)
2020-01-11T20:48:56 < zyp> doing all the work to get the design to fit in two layers, and then you don't need it afterwards :p
2020-01-11T20:49:28 < qyx> they wasn't that hard to fit, boards are simple enough
2020-01-11T20:49:46 < zyp> fair enough
2020-01-11T20:49:57 < qyx> maybe except one
2020-01-11T20:50:18 < qyx> also the backplane would not fit on 2L if all signals were used
2020-01-11T20:50:21 < zyp> I think I reached the tipping point when I ran some number on proper differential impedance
2020-01-11T20:50:35 < qyx> I didn't yet
2020-01-11T20:50:47 < zyp> there's a big difference in how wide traces you need
2020-01-11T20:50:58 < zyp> on 2L, the referance plane is 1.6mm or so away
2020-01-11T20:51:28 < zyp> on 4L, it's 0.15mm or something like that
2020-01-11T20:51:44 < qyx> yes, thats one of the reasons I want 4L
2020-01-11T20:51:52 < qyx> to make the thing properly
2020-01-11T20:52:12 < zyp> and then it also makes routing a lot easier :)
2020-01-11T20:52:59 < zyp> https://bin.jvnv.net/file/N7fgK.png
2020-01-11T20:53:16 < zyp> network card, just missing decoupling and a regulator
2020-01-11T20:54:18 < zyp> considering switching from 0603 to 0402
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2020-01-11T20:55:20 < doomba> is stm32flash for linux failsauce?
2020-01-11T20:56:07 < zyp> those python scripts?
2020-01-11T20:56:11 < zyp> for serial bootloader?
2020-01-11T20:56:25 < zyp> if so, I guess they work fine for what they do
2020-01-11T20:57:00 < qyx> I have too many 0603 available for prototyping already
2020-01-11T20:57:10 < qyx> so 0402 meh
2020-01-11T21:02:45 < qyx> the backplane looks like this so far https://bin.jvnv.net/file/WyY4g.png
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2020-01-11T21:05:13 < zyp> what's your slot pitch?
2020-01-11T21:07:04 < qyx> 15.24
2020-01-11T21:10:57 < doomba> aside from setting boot0 high and resetting, it should go into bootloader loop.
2020-01-11T21:11:13 < doomba> which it does. i can dfu it
2020-01-11T21:11:19 < doomba> but usart2 and usart3 ded
2020-01-11T21:11:20 < c10ud^> what's with this pcie train
2020-01-11T21:11:37 < doomba> figured ftdi would work for this
2020-01-11T21:13:27 < doomba> even using pyserial to spit 0x7f at various baud rates... nothing comes back on either usart
2020-01-11T21:13:30 < doomba> supposed to see 0x79
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2020-01-11T21:31:52 < qyx> c10ud^: 3 of us are making ~similar things utilising cheap pci-e connectors
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2020-01-11T21:32:36 < qyx> some bytes got wasted
2020-01-11T21:33:16 < srk> :D
2020-01-11T21:33:52 < srk> qyx: what's gonna be on node side?
2020-01-11T21:41:33 < qyx> The I211-AT uses less than 1w of power, so IMO energy efficient sleep mode is useless
2020-01-11T21:41:36 < qyx> haha wasters
2020-01-11T21:41:42 < qyx> yeah useless
2020-01-11T21:42:09 < qyx> srk: daq boards, main boards (stm32 or linux), power management poards, comms boards
2020-01-11T21:43:53 < Steffanx> 3 qyx? You mr z and ?
2020-01-11T21:44:06 < srk> qyx: sounds fun
2020-01-11T21:44:52 < qyx> Steffanx: mr. k
2020-01-11T21:45:04 < qyx> although not multi slot
2020-01-11T21:45:51 < qyx> also mr semik. but he got distracted by make:r style pin headers
2020-01-11T21:49:09 < Steffanx> i thought mr kp was already done with it
2020-01-11T21:50:36 < Steffanx> nah whatever
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2020-01-11T22:11:43 < Cracki> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wUVvQk7XLd4
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2020-01-11T22:20:37 < karlp> doomba: does your rom bootloader actually operate on usart2 and 3?
2020-01-11T22:21:23 < doomba> karlp: according to an2606, the L496zg appears to scan usart 1-3
2020-01-11T22:21:35 < karlp> jsut checking :)
2020-01-11T22:22:18 < karlp> Steffanx: nah, got the first round rpotos working, but then the _rest_ of the job interfered, and haven't progressed to the rest of it.
2020-01-11T22:22:30 < doomba> this is on a nucleo, though.
2020-01-11T22:22:48 < karlp> have pcbs on the way with some alternate "host boards" so stm32/allwinning/esp32 on to the common analog base.
2020-01-11T22:22:55 < karlp> certainly not "finished" :)
2020-01-11T22:23:28 < doomba> i've tried usart2 and usart3. neither worked. when i reset with boot0 high, it boots from system ram as expected. i can then plug in to usb and use dfu-util. so i know the bootloader loop is running.
2020-01-11T22:23:31 < qyx> esp32 looks great but stinks
2020-01-11T22:23:43 < karlp> zyp: what dual usb part did you decide on? (that's a dual stack usb port for your lan9512 ether+hub right?)
2020-01-11T22:23:45 < doomba> obviously usb is disconnected when i'm trying to access bootloader via usart
2020-01-11T22:24:04 < karlp> qyx:well, was an easy board to try it out with, can't be worse than esp1488 can it?
2020-01-11T22:24:41 < qyx> my first esp32 encounter was on the esp32-cam module
2020-01-11T22:24:43 < qyx> so idk
2020-01-11T22:24:48 < doomba> i have a python script that sends 0x7f with different bauds in a loop (8e1), and then connecting to the different usarts (also swapping tx/rx pins because lolchineseftdi)
2020-01-11T22:24:48 < qyx> *my first esp*
2020-01-11T22:25:42 < zyp> karlp, as far as I can tell there's a standard footprint for those, so I just grabbed something random from digikey
2020-01-11T22:26:13 < PaulFertser> doomba: there was some issue with "even" parity on ch341 some time ago, what's your running on the host system? "stm32flash" always did the job re: baud rate and other proper communication.
2020-01-11T22:26:48 < karlp> zyp: goodo, wsa hoping too, just going to grab cheap one from lcsc.
2020-01-11T22:27:06 < doomba> PaulFertser: Bus 002 Device 021: ID 0403:6001 Future Technology Devices International, Ltd FT232 Serial (UART) IC
2020-01-11T22:27:07 < zyp> grabbed as in footprint and 3d model
2020-01-11T22:27:15 < zyp> will use whatever is cheap for populating
2020-01-11T22:27:22 < PaulFertser> doomba: so fake ftdi probably?
2020-01-11T22:27:41 < karlp> or real?
2020-01-11T22:27:52 < doomba> no idea :) it's from "DIYmall" so probably fake
2020-01-11T22:28:42 < doomba> maybe the cp2108 in my cluster controller prototype will work with this.
2020-01-11T22:28:45 < PaulFertser> doomba: if you have "blue pill" handy you can try to access its bootloader with same adapter to have a data point.
2020-01-11T22:29:02 < doomba> nope. only stm32 dev board i have is this nucleo-l496zg
2020-01-11T22:29:03 < PaulFertser> doomba: stm32 bootloader is special because "e".
2020-01-11T22:30:17 < doomba> the fake ftdi's will only do 8n1 or something?
2020-01-11T22:31:49 < PaulFertser> doomba: I wouldn't be surprised if it was that, but who knows. If you can capture with LA you'll see if it's doing the right thing or not. And you have probably checked everything else already.
2020-01-11T22:32:54 < PaulFertser> doomba: or you can run using UART of one of your SBCs (make sure you disable serial console on it)
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2020-01-11T22:44:24 < karlp> ch341's could always do even, just not the linux driver.  was fixedin (iirc) 4.18
2020-01-11T22:44:37 < doomba> had to jump vbus on the cluster controller thingy
2020-01-11T22:44:46 < doomba> but now i have cp2108
2020-01-11T22:44:49 < doomba> testing with that...
2020-01-11T22:44:51 < doomba> so far still nothing
2020-01-11T22:45:02 < karlp> probably other problems then....
2020-01-11T22:45:09 < doomba> checking nucleo pinout for the 15th time
2020-01-11T22:45:19 < karlp> (and solder bridges?)
2020-01-11T22:45:53 < karlp> hrm. is it _really_ a good idea to say, "provide a ~6-30V supply, and I'll make a regulated 5V for all the downstream ports"
2020-01-11T22:46:04 < karlp> or is it sane to expect a regulated 5V supply externally?
2020-01-11T22:46:25 < qyx> I would do the former
2020-01-11T22:46:57 < karlp> this says 3% line regulation: https://www.aliexpress.com/item/32775834573.html
2020-01-11T22:47:03 < karlp> and can then be sized by the user for what they want?
2020-01-11T22:47:28 < qyx> yeah but at 2A you may get 4V5 easily at the end of the cable
2020-01-11T22:47:46 < doomba> ok so i used a cp2108 and ft232 so far. neither worked. also tried on both usart2 and usart3 of the mcu
2020-01-11T22:48:00 < karlp> this would be screw terminals for "proper wire"
2020-01-11T22:48:07 < doomba> it's in bootloader becasue i have a blinky in the flash memory - it's not blinking.
2020-01-11T22:48:41 < doomba> the only other thing i can think of is somehow the nucleo board's st-link is hijacking usart1?
2020-01-11T22:48:49 < qyx> it is
2020-01-11T22:48:56 < doomba> which wouldn't make sense because otherwise how would dfu mode work?
2020-01-11T22:48:57 < qyx> did you read the manual?
2020-01-11T22:49:23 < PaulFertser> karlp: yes, just not with the Linux driver that's why I asked what's running on the host.
2020-01-11T22:49:24 < doomba> my understanding is the bootloader loops through the usarts, spi, i2c, and eventually gets to usb, no?
2020-01-11T22:49:24 < qyx> stlink provides a VCP for the usart on PA2/PA3 iirc
2020-01-11T22:49:55 < qyx> you have to desolder/sodler some resistors on the nucleo to get your uart on the pin headers
2020-01-11T22:50:07 < karlp> doomba: dfu is usb? not usart?
2020-01-11T22:50:18 < karlp> the stlink has it's own usb port...
2020-01-11T22:50:28 < PaulFertser> qyx: but that's just one uart and according to that appnote it should check the others...
2020-01-11T22:50:36 < qyx> true
2020-01-11T22:50:44 < doomba> karlp: i know. what i'm saying is i used the usb port of the mcu (not st-link's usb port) to flash some stuff after strapping boot0 high and resetting.
2020-01-11T22:50:51 < doomba> that's how i know it went into the bootloader loop
2020-01-11T22:51:02 < doomba> now what i'm trying to do is flash via one of the usarts
2020-01-11T22:51:07 < karlp> qyx: convince me why it's a better idea to design in a big buck regulator for ~15-25W?
2020-01-11T22:51:21 < qyx> karlp: hrmr I would fail.
2020-01-11T22:51:32 < qyx> I am fascinated by higher voltages
2020-01-11T22:51:34 < qyx> 5V hurts
2020-01-11T22:51:50 < karlp> yeah, I'm not excited about it myself, hence the appeal of just an external supply, and fat wires for it.
2020-01-11T22:52:21 < karlp> even just general house wiring shit shoujld be _more_ than enough to avoid any problems.
2020-01-11T22:53:02 < karlp> I mean, sy8366 looks like, "just do it already!" and it's only like $0.50, but still...
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2020-01-11T22:53:22 < zyp> karlp, why? house wiring shit normally doesn't have to worry about 0.5V voltage drop
2020-01-11T22:53:34 < zyp> whereas for USB it matters
2020-01-11T22:54:14 < karlp> I mean, "house wiring" sort of wires is more than fat enough to be better than the sort of skinny usb cables that lead to people having voltage droop problems.
2020-01-11T22:54:56 < karlp> if I'm taking a +-3% 5V supply, with decent sized wires, it seems like it should be perfectly fine.
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2020-01-11T22:56:21 < zyp> true
2020-01-11T22:56:48 < PaulFertser> doomba: looking at the state diagram I think if it might be going via "USB Cable Detected" branch even without the cable on that board.
2020-01-11T22:57:09 < zyp> I ran the numbers, even with 0.75mm2 at 2A load, you only drop 84 mV/m
2020-01-11T22:57:57 < PaulFertser> doomba: and I'd try stm32flash instead of an ad-hoc script
2020-01-11T22:58:13 < doomba> PaulFertser: i wrote the ad-hoc script because stm32flash doesn't see the bootloader
2020-01-11T23:03:29 < doomba> PaulFertser: the "usb cable detected" branch without a cable actually connected is the only thing i can think of
2020-01-11T23:04:28 < qyx> if it is <100mV only, go for external 5V
2020-01-11T23:05:19 < qyx> so, another kicad gerber export adventure
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2020-01-11T23:11:35 < karlp> dongs: swpa is discontinued now too: https://github.com/karlp/zypsnips/blob/master/inductors.are.coily.goodness.md#more-small-inductor-sizes
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2020-01-11T23:39:32 < Steffanx> where is kakinull
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2020-01-11T23:45:01 < Laurenceb> in my experience usb cable voltage drop happens at the connector
2020-01-11T23:45:19 < Laurenceb> also avoid cheap chinese cables, its literally ten times worse
2020-01-11T23:45:47 < Laurenceb> babbyshake was borderline failing from voltage drop
2020-01-11T23:48:37 < Laurenceb> laptop -> four port hub -> two sensors, gps receiver (with active antenna), + 3m cable ->480mbps isolator->7 port hub -> 5 sensors, 8 channel sound card with 4x48v microphone supplies + 4 port hub with 4 more sensors 
2020-01-11T23:49:32 < Laurenceb> it was about 4.4v at the end
2020-01-11T23:50:53 < Laurenceb> the overcomplex way to fill the hard drive with gigabytes of crap
2020-01-11T23:53:10 < karlp> what HS isolator did you find?
2020-01-11T23:55:08 < Laurenceb> https://kitsunehifi.com/product/intona-high-speed-usb-3-0-2-0-isolator-2-5kv-and-5-0kv-models-new-for-2019/
2020-01-11T23:55:09 < Laurenceb> intona stuff
2020-01-11T23:56:02 < qyx> curious too
2020-01-11T23:56:11 < qyx> oh hifi stuff
2020-01-11T23:57:00 < Laurenceb> I had to find low power hub ics to get it to work
2020-01-11T23:57:16 < Laurenceb> these things were the best I could find, used in all cheap chinese junk
2020-01-11T23:57:18 < Laurenceb> https://www.aliexpress.com/item/32664081819.html
2020-01-11T23:57:35 < qyx> lol fe1.1
2020-01-11T23:57:39 < Laurenceb> I added some caps and filtering to the cheap hubs, that improved the noise a bit
2020-01-11T23:57:40 < Laurenceb> yeah
2020-01-11T23:57:53 < qyx> did you measure current consumtpion
2020-01-11T23:57:56 < Laurenceb> it pwns the more expensive "lower power" Ti stuff
2020-01-11T23:57:58 < Laurenceb> yeah
2020-01-11T23:58:09 < Laurenceb> well - its about 30% lower mean current
2020-01-11T23:58:41 < qyx> do you remember mW for the whole hub?
2020-01-11T23:59:06 < Laurenceb> over a watt for the 7 port hub
2020-01-11T23:59:27 < Laurenceb> 600mW or something for the 4 port hubs
2020-01-11T23:59:28 < qyx> meh
2020-01-11T23:59:34 < Laurenceb> yeah its nasty
2020-01-11T23:59:42 < qyx> those hubs are hungry
2020-01-11T23:59:49 < qyx> ethernet switches too
--- Day changed Sun Jan 12 2020
2020-01-12T00:00:03 < Laurenceb> most of the power, in fact almost all of it was going to the hubs
2020-01-12T00:00:50 < Laurenceb> adc on the sound card wasnt too good either
2020-01-12T00:02:17 < Laurenceb> but everything about that project was retarded, glad I'm no longer involved
2020-01-12T00:06:15 < qyx> so you glued it together from china components?
2020-01-12T00:07:35 < karlp> yeah, this  usb2517 is 3.3V*.46A => 1.5W for the hub portion alone. (with 7 HS devices, it's about half that with FS devices)
2020-01-12T00:08:15 < Laurenceb> qyx: yeah
2020-01-12T00:08:43 < qyx> for this you got your phd?!
2020-01-12T00:08:56 < karlp> fe1.1s is definitely lower power for the hubu itself.
2020-01-12T00:09:57 < Laurenceb> qyx: no lmao, this was a random uni project I worked on
2020-01-12T00:10:21 < karlp> fe1.1s is 100mA for 4xHS, GL852 is only 76mA for 4xHS...
2020-01-12T00:10:48 < Laurenceb> interesting, thanks
2020-01-12T00:12:18 < Laurenceb> >Today I do not have money to continue experiments and study. But I'm not going to give up, because I have no right to retreat. And first of all, I will prove that the photon does not carry momentum. No experiments are needed here. I just destroy the honour and reputation of those who believe that it is. 
2020-01-12T00:12:26 < Laurenceb> oh wow emdrive forum delivers
2020-01-12T00:12:58 < karlp> usb2514 is same era as usb2517, and is 155mA+40mA per port, usb2514_B_ halved that,
2020-01-12T00:13:07 < karlp> but they never made a newer B version of the usb2517
2020-01-12T00:13:49 < Laurenceb> I wonder at what point its more energy efficient to make a stm32 based hub
2020-01-12T00:13:50 < karlp> fuck it, what's a watt between friends.
2020-01-12T00:14:00 < karlp> the fuck would an stm32 based hub be?
2020-01-12T00:14:19 < Laurenceb> I dunno, a stm32 for each port with some sort of data bus lmao
2020-01-12T00:14:57 < qyx> much mushrooms?
2020-01-12T00:15:00 < karlp> and teh upstream? magically reconverted to usb?
2020-01-12T00:15:05 < karlp> yeah, what the fuck are you smoikin?
2020-01-12T00:15:23 < qyx> 16bit fsmc between them
2020-01-12T00:15:55 < Laurenceb> > No experiments are needed here. I just destroy the honour and reputation of those who believe that it is. 
2020-01-12T00:15:59 < Laurenceb> obligatory
2020-01-12T00:16:25 < Laurenceb> >when you read emdrive forum and can't work out which poster is a troll
2020-01-12T00:18:30 < Steffanx> > when you read emdrive forum
2020-01-12T00:18:40 < qyx> > when you read
2020-01-12T00:18:55 < Steffanx> ;0
2020-01-12T00:18:57 < Steffanx> ;)
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2020-01-12T00:51:29 < qyx> any favorite shop for small directional wifi antennas?
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2020-01-12T01:06:36 < kakinull> small?
2020-01-12T01:06:57 < kakinull> you mean antenna elements?
2020-01-12T01:07:26 < kakinull> or the whole thing with all mech
2020-01-12T01:08:56 < qyx> the whole thing
2020-01-12T01:09:11 < qyx> but not a 35dBi 100cm diameter dish
2020-01-12T01:09:46 < Steffanx> Ah kakinull  is still with us. Ty
2020-01-12T01:10:17 < kakinull> 500mm dish?
2020-01-12T01:12:38 < Steffanx> You should specify how small mr qyx
2020-01-12T01:14:30 < kakinull> anyway check eurodk qyx
2020-01-12T01:14:52 < Steffanx> Yeah was about to mention that shop
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2020-01-12T02:00:38 < Cracki> muh dik dik https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ds4J42JsD7E
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2020-01-12T02:25:50 < doomba> y0 PaulFertser !@~
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2020-01-12T02:26:09 < PaulFertser> doomba: hooray?
2020-01-12T02:26:22 < doomba> seeing as the nucleo l496 didn't want to play nice with usartN bootloader
2020-01-12T02:26:41 < doomba> sorry 1 sec brb
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2020-01-12T02:27:48 < doomba> PaulFertser: https://logbook.pw/gl-ar750s-lora-module.pdf
2020-01-12T02:28:50 < doomba> any blatent oopsies?
2020-01-12T02:29:26 < doomba> here's what it's gonna attach to: https://openwrt.org/_media/media/gl.inet/ar750s/ar750s-v1.0-pinout-01.jpg
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2020-01-12T02:39:13 < PaulFertser> doomba: I can't follow, do you plan to attach nucleo to that module?
2020-01-12T02:39:56 < doomba> no. the nucleo stuff from earlier was me experimenting with bootloader over usart
2020-01-12T02:39:59 < PaulFertser> doomba: or to try stm32flash with it?
2020-01-12T02:40:33 < doomba> gl-ar750s is one of those gl-inet travel routers
2020-01-12T02:40:51 < PaulFertser> I see from the second pic now, yes.
2020-01-12T02:41:56 < doomba> i can use the usb header on the right of the pcb in that pic. but in the actual product, there's a heatsink in the way i think.
2020-01-12T02:42:06 < doomba> will need to double check but
2020-01-12T02:42:44 < PaulFertser> doomba: did you give up on the uart bootloader idea?
2020-01-12T02:43:05 < doomba> the intent of the schematic is to use the uart <-> lora, and then use usart bootloader by flipping those gpios (the pca9536) over i2c
2020-01-12T02:43:37 < doomba> that way i can flash it over uart without disassembling.
2020-01-12T02:46:34 < PaulFertser> doomba: what's that other usb header attached to? Doesn't look like the main SoC.
2020-01-12T02:46:48 < doomba> i'm not sure. but it has me very curious.
2020-01-12T02:47:06 < doomba> might disassemble the unit in a few mins to find out.
2020-01-12T02:47:30 < PaulFertser> Looks like some other microcontroller probably.
2020-01-12T02:47:52 < doomba> or maybe a hub
2020-01-12T02:49:47 < PaulFertser> doomba: btw, I'm confused by seeing "RX" right next to PA9 pin of stm32f03
2020-01-12T02:51:44 < PaulFertser> doomba: do you really need I2C there, wouldn't it be simpler to have a single GPIO control whether you're flashing or just communicating with lora?
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2020-01-12T02:54:40 < PaulFertser> doomba: or even two, one to control stm32's reset directly, another to boot0.
2020-01-12T03:02:45 < PaulFertser> doomba: need to sleep now, ttyl
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2020-01-12T03:30:15 < doomba> it's a hub
2020-01-12T03:32:00 < doomba> which deosn't make any fukin sense
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2020-01-12T05:10:05 < dongs> karlp: ok lemme see what chinks recommend now. chinagirl still can get stuff when I say "swpa" but its prolly not that.
2020-01-12T05:11:12 < dongs> its funny china still has so much stock of VLF3010
2020-01-12T05:11:29 < dongs> last time i bought a batch they were so obcviously stored in some kinda smoke-filled environment
2020-01-12T05:11:35 < dongs> and wouldnt evne solder (pads were oxidated ands hit
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2020-01-12T06:23:56 < dongs> doomba: why teh hell are you doing this with boot0 and nrst lmao
2020-01-12T06:25:37 < doomba> dongs: nfc
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2020-01-12T14:57:14 < Steffanx> so did you try this new cable haunt vulnerable  on your ziggo modem  yet, mawk?
2020-01-12T14:57:28 < Steffanx> Vulnerability*
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2020-01-12T15:41:29 < mawk> after signing a NDA a chinese camera manufacturer sent us their SDK
2020-01-12T15:41:37 < mawk> look what I found inside it https://paste.serveur.io/3niGd4iF.c
2020-01-12T15:42:20 < mawk> which vuln Steffanx ?
2020-01-12T15:42:24 < mawk> I want to try
2020-01-12T15:47:14 < Steffanx> mawk: https://cablehaunt.com/
2020-01-12T15:47:42 < Steffanx> it might not work. Some others by the same manufacturer with a similar product name work.
2020-01-12T15:53:57 < mawk> might work
2020-01-12T15:54:07 < mawk> if I remember my security classes
2020-01-12T15:54:20 < mawk> I could ask an ex camarade that did security
2020-01-12T16:00:36 < rajkosto> nice
2020-01-12T16:00:46 < rajkosto> i just got a new cable modem from my ISP that has that spectrum analyzer endpoint
2020-01-12T16:00:47 < rajkosto> old one didnt have it
2020-01-12T16:01:06 < rajkosto> it doesnt work if you changed default username/password ?
2020-01-12T16:03:16 < mawk> it's probably not just a default credentials attack
2020-01-12T16:03:22 < mawk> manufacturer understood that long ago
2020-01-12T16:03:28 < mawk> most of them at least
2020-01-12T16:05:13 < rajkosto> yes but if it needs user/pass to access spectrum analyzer
2020-01-12T16:05:17 < rajkosto> cant do it if you changed it
2020-01-12T16:05:38 < rajkosto> also most modems dont listen on their WAN ip for the webUI server
2020-01-12T16:05:44 < rajkosto> unless you specifically enable remote access
2020-01-12T16:05:59 < rajkosto> so you would have to request via javascript running locally from attack website
2020-01-12T16:06:37 < mawk> it's using a buffer overflow somewhere
2020-01-12T16:06:48 < rajkosto> in the spectrum analyzer websocket server
2020-01-12T16:08:13 < Steffanx> "so you would have to request via javascript running locally from attack website" < ofcourse, but thats not hard at all...
2020-01-12T16:08:38 < rajkosto> btw broadcom still uses ancient MIPS cpu in their cable modem SoC
2020-01-12T16:08:47 < rajkosto> others have migrated to ARM long ago
2020-01-12T16:09:06 < rajkosto> they also use a non-process-isolating RTOS (eCos)
2020-01-12T16:09:16 < mawk> yes
2020-01-12T16:09:23 < mawk> I found that in the old ziggo router
2020-01-12T16:09:29 < mawk> ecos flat binary
2020-01-12T16:09:42 < mawk> two of them actually, they have two banks for never failing fw updates
2020-01-12T16:10:01 < mawk> and a "nvram" area in the flash alongside the two ecos binaries
2020-01-12T16:10:07 < mawk> with all the creds you want
2020-01-12T16:11:27 < mawk> ah yes you were talking about the creds of the spectrum analyzer itself
2020-01-12T16:11:30 < mawk> not the modem UI
2020-01-12T16:11:42 < mawk> these are default everywhere or something
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2020-01-12T16:12:09 < Rajko> lol, its vulnerable, it crashed and rebooted my modem, nice.
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2020-01-12T16:12:54 < mawk> lol
2020-01-12T16:13:12 < Rajko> they just replaced this shit on dec 22
2020-01-12T16:13:23 < Rajko> the old modems didnt have any problems working and didnt have the spectrum analyzer feature
2020-01-12T16:13:43 < Rajko> so its like they made sure to make everyone vulnerable recently :P
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2020-01-12T16:14:18 < Rajko> i can "fix" it by nullrouting 192.168.100.x subnet on my router tho
2020-01-12T16:14:33 < Rajko> assuming any attack scripts will target that "guaranteed" ip instead of trying to figure out the real ip
2020-01-12T16:16:03 < mawk> by putting a real router in front of it
2020-01-12T16:16:12 < mawk> and putting the shit router in bridge mode
2020-01-12T16:16:18 < mawk> then no vuln
2020-01-12T16:16:21 < Rajko> its already like that
2020-01-12T16:16:33 < Rajko> most of them wont let you change to bridge mode
2020-01-12T16:16:40 < mawk> ah
2020-01-12T16:16:46 < mawk> in nl here with the main provider you need to call them
2020-01-12T16:16:52 < mawk> because there's a law that mandates bridge mode
2020-01-12T16:16:55 < Rajko> you need to get a "dumber" router for bridge mode
2020-01-12T16:17:01 < Rajko> and then you lose voip
2020-01-12T16:17:03 < mawk> but they make sure you don't hear about it
2020-01-12T16:17:41 < mawk> well if you have your own router in front then you send 10.0.0.0/8 172.16.0.0/12 192.168.0.0/16 into a blackhole
2020-01-12T16:17:55 < mawk> at least when forwarding from lan to wan
2020-01-12T16:18:05 < Rajko> yes but dual nat isnt nice
2020-01-12T16:18:29 < mawk> ah
2020-01-12T16:18:38 < mawk> well I was saying this assuming you have bridge mode
2020-01-12T16:19:07 < Steffanx> was your listed Rajko?
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2020-01-12T16:41:45 < zyp> impedance calculators are fun, especially when they disagree
2020-01-12T16:50:33 < antto> it'd be more fun if one of them throws everything and starts to dance
2020-01-12T16:50:43 < zyp> ok
2020-01-12T16:51:56 < Steffanx> hm
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2020-01-12T16:52:09 < antto> zyp just take teh average ;P~
2020-01-12T16:56:03 < Steffanx> Hello antto how is your day?
2020-01-12T16:56:17 < antto> useless
2020-01-12T16:56:27 < Steffanx> good
2020-01-12T16:57:06 < antto> i should go and cook some shizzle
2020-01-12T16:57:39 < antto> cuz tomorrow imma get muh mau5er box from dumb fedex, and imma not feel like cooking
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2020-01-12T17:11:02 < kakipro> writing my cv
2020-01-12T17:11:10 < kakipro> storytime
2020-01-12T17:12:09 < specing> haha
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2020-01-12T17:24:14 < doomba> PaulFertser: it was a gl85x usb hub
2020-01-12T17:27:47 < englishman> gl85x > *
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2020-01-12T17:29:52 < PaulFertser> doomba: what do you think about my yesterday's remark wrt I2C?
2020-01-12T17:30:11 < PaulFertser> doomba: I wonder what they have connected to it. SD card reader probably?
2020-01-12T17:30:36 < doomba> yep i'm thinking sd card reader and that expansion header that is unpopulated
2020-01-12T17:30:49 < doomba> doesn't make much sense why though
2020-01-12T17:31:03 < doomba> unless the wifi is also on usb
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2020-01-12T17:32:29 < PaulFertser> doomba: no, wifi is certainly not on usb
2020-01-12T17:32:55 < doomba> just confirmed it's the sd card reader
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2020-01-12T17:34:29 < doomba> i'm thinking this hub controller IC is also the sd card reader
2020-01-12T17:34:57 < doomba> because they both show the same vendor id to the kernel
2020-01-12T17:38:47 < PaulFertser> Makes sense
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2020-01-12T17:50:00 < kakipro> musics
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2020-01-12T17:59:32 < antto> kakipro romance or scifi?
2020-01-12T17:59:54 < antto> or cowboi western
2020-01-12T18:00:42 < antto> i hope your cv begins with "In a world ..."
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2020-01-12T18:01:26 < bitmask> damn power went out
2020-01-12T18:01:40 < bitmask> came back on but internet is down
2020-01-12T18:02:23 < antto> that's why when you *do* have internetz, you should fill a few buckets for times like this
2020-01-12T18:03:40 < kakipro> antto: romantic scifi western drama cv
2020-01-12T18:03:48 < bitmask> buckets of internetz, great idea
2020-01-12T18:03:52 < BrainDamage> fill your bathub with some internet for outage times
2020-01-12T18:03:53 < bitmask> mobile hotspot works too
2020-01-12T18:03:58 < kakipro> I did it already
2020-01-12T18:04:02 < kakipro> one page should do it
2020-01-12T18:04:12 < kakipro> I sent it already too
2020-01-12T18:04:16 < antto> BrainDamage but are you gonna bathe in them cat pics?
2020-01-12T18:04:45 < bitmask> https://www.aliexpress.com/item/4000533205819.html thoughts?
2020-01-12T18:04:45 < antto> use buckets, they are easier to carry
2020-01-12T18:04:55 < bitmask> doesnt look very high duty but good enough for battery welding?
2020-01-12T18:05:01 < BrainDamage> add a warning label: this text is entirely a work of fiction, any reference to real life characters is a pure coincidence
2020-01-12T18:05:54 < bitmask> on the bright side, when reconnecting to internet I saw a SSID of poopybutts
2020-01-12T18:06:09 < antto> a wat
2020-01-12T18:06:22 < bitmask> SSID, WiFi name
2020-01-12T18:07:39 < antto> buttypoops
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2020-01-12T18:23:27 < Steffanx> dont you want to continue doling, kakipro?
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2020-01-12T18:42:40 < kakipro> I should start first
2020-01-12T18:42:56 < qyx> bitmask: and the rest of the welder.. ?
2020-01-12T18:43:15 < bitmask> probably a cheap timer used with a MOT
2020-01-12T18:44:20 < BrainDamage> probably has https://www.aliexpress.com/item/4000436631776.html inside
2020-01-12T18:44:36 < BrainDamage> for the 12V, just use a laptop psu
2020-01-12T18:44:53 < bitmask> isnt that for dc?
2020-01-12T18:44:54 < BrainDamage> or a car battery
2020-01-12T18:45:18 < BrainDamage> yes it is
2020-01-12T18:46:49 < bitmask> https://www.aliexpress.com/item/32873812813.html
2020-01-12T18:46:57 < bitmask> I was gonna go with one of those types
2020-01-12T18:47:55 < bitmask> oh thats not a double pulse one
2020-01-12T18:48:18 < qyx> https://www.ebay.com/itm/FPC-FFC-Flexible-Flat-Cable-24Pin-6cm-40cm-Length-0-5-1-0mm-Pitch-80C-60V-VW-1/183550562642
2020-01-12T18:48:21 < qyx> wtf
2020-01-12T18:48:23 < qyx> 100 cables for $11?
2020-01-12T18:48:39 < qyx> (1mm pitch, 10cm len, 24pin)
2020-01-12T18:49:20 < bitmask> damn, I spent like $8 for 5 for my heated jacket
2020-01-12T18:49:45 < bitmask> 1.0 - 8 pin
2020-01-12T18:49:58 < bitmask> they were 60 and 100cm though
2020-01-12T18:50:30 < bitmask> I think I made those numbers up
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2020-01-12T18:51:48 < qyx> heh
2020-01-12T18:51:50 -!- bitmask [~bitmask@c-73-215-237-27.hsd1.nj.comcast.net] has joined ##stm32
2020-01-12T18:52:48 < bitmask> $4.79 for 5 pcs 80cm
2020-01-12T18:53:00 < bitmask> $8.36 with shipping
2020-01-12T18:53:14 < bitmask> and I thought that was good
2020-01-12T18:53:56 < qyx> I would not call that expensive
2020-01-12T18:53:58 < qyx> https://www.ebay.com/str/weiyang528
2020-01-12T18:54:00 < qyx> interesting store
2020-01-12T18:57:31 < qyx> he also has those low pin count usb-c connectors
2020-01-12T18:57:37 < qyx> 10pcs for $2
2020-01-12T19:03:14 < jpa-> i wonder if i should really be using usb-c for all new stuff already
2020-01-12T19:05:10 < BrainDamage> I have a single device with usb-c here
2020-01-12T19:05:18 < BrainDamage> everything else is micro usb
2020-01-12T19:05:27 < qyx> I have none
2020-01-12T19:05:33 < BrainDamage> and a few still mini
2020-01-12T19:11:28 < qyx> Laurenceb: do you remember your acc/gyro testing? is there enough noise in the output of a digital accelerometer to oversample it?
2020-01-12T19:11:50 < Laurenceb> poh easily
2020-01-12T19:12:43 < qyx> (for an inclination sensing)
2020-01-12T19:12:52 < qyx> ok, ty
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2020-01-12T19:14:24 < englishman> jpa-: yes
2020-01-12T19:14:28 < englishman> usbC is awesome
2020-01-12T19:14:52 < englishman> not many devices left here with usb micro
2020-01-12T19:15:41 < BrainDamage> btw bitmask, is your jacket waterproof?
2020-01-12T19:15:56 < bitmask> nope
2020-01-12T19:16:10 < BrainDamage> and are the outputs current protected?
2020-01-12T19:16:23 < BrainDamage> so if it rains, you'll be in deep shit?
2020-01-12T19:16:42 < bitmask> the battery is using a cheap bms with a 20-25A cutoff 
2020-01-12T19:17:28 < jpa-> englishman: yeah; i'm currently working on a device that will have USB-A (host) port, and it feels funny putting USB-C for that also, and if i don't then it feels weird to put USB-C in place of the micro-B connectors :P
2020-01-12T19:18:02 < bitmask> I can make the pocket waterproof I guess
2020-01-12T19:19:22 < englishman> idk if usbC as host is popular ubiquitous enough just yet but on the device side it sure is
2020-01-12T19:22:30 < zyp> agreed
2020-01-12T19:23:04 < zyp> I'd probably use usb-c for anything device side now unless I had a reason to use micro-b
2020-01-12T19:23:40 < zyp> consider the only difference apart from the connector itself is the CC resistors
2020-01-12T19:23:56 < zyp> on host side, it's a little bit more complex
2020-01-12T19:24:34 < zyp> on host side you're supposed to also sense the CC lines and only turn on VBUS when you've detected a sink
2020-01-12T19:25:00 < zyp> (to avoid two hosts outputting vbus at each other)
2020-01-12T19:26:16 < zyp> A to C cables don't have to worry about that since they have a C plug, not a C socket
2020-01-12T19:26:19 < Steffanx> oh, is that something you dont want?
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2020-01-12T19:36:00 < zyp> generally you don't want to connect two sources together, no
2020-01-12T19:47:28 < jpa-> maybe i'll just go with C & A then
2020-01-12T19:47:47 < jpa-> it also makes it easier to tell apart the host & device ports
2020-01-12T19:50:33 < zyp> that's probably what I'd do
2020-01-12T19:50:54 < zyp> it's probably still gonna be a while before C overtakes A ports
2020-01-12T19:54:06 < mawk> so Steffanx did you see my code excerpt from this morning ?
2020-01-12T19:54:12 < mawk> company signed NDA with chinese camera manufacturer
2020-01-12T19:54:16 < mawk> and I found this in the header files
2020-01-12T19:54:18 < Steffanx> nope
2020-01-12T19:54:23 < mawk> alongside all the machinery for classification of citizens
2020-01-12T19:54:33 < mawk> https://paste.serveur.io/3niGd4iF.c
2020-01-12T19:55:43 < Steffanx> yay
2020-01-12T20:01:47 < Steffanx> So much NDA that even google doesnt know it :P
2020-01-12T20:02:54 < mawk> I can exfiltrate the whole source file next time I'm at work
2020-01-12T20:03:03 < mawk> I think the SDK is public but the docs are NDA, something like this
2020-01-12T20:03:06 < mawk> but you have to know where to look
2020-01-12T20:03:56 < Steffanx> things are always easy to find when you know where to look.
2020-01-12T20:04:04 < Steffanx> *often, not always
2020-01-12T20:04:21 < englishman> didnt you just start this job you're already violating ndas and exfiltrating seekrits
2020-01-12T20:04:28 < mawk> lol
2020-01-12T20:04:35 < mawk> yes englishman 
2020-01-12T20:04:43 < Steffanx> i was not going to comment on that.
2020-01-12T20:04:44 < qyx> mawk: what does it do, face recognition to know if there are tibetians?
2020-01-12T20:04:55 < mawk> I'm not sure about that qyx 
2020-01-12T20:05:01 < mawk> race recognition seems very hard to do
2020-01-12T20:05:02 < Steffanx> Uygur are high in the list too
2020-01-12T20:05:17 < mawk> but at least they do facial recognition and classify citizens in some big db
2020-01-12T20:05:26 < mawk> with many attributes like address, name, citizen ID, and race
2020-01-12T20:05:42 < BrainDamage> jesus christ, automated discrimination
2020-01-12T20:06:35 < BrainDamage> well, some people have moral compass stronger than their political compass
2020-01-12T20:07:13 < mawk> well I'm half involved in this project
2020-01-12T20:07:16 < BrainDamage> personally I wouldn't mind protection for whistleblowers where the issue has severe moral implications
2020-01-12T20:07:19 < mawk> so I can steer the company to change manufacturer
2020-01-12T20:07:37 < englishman> a compass is the thing in google maps that makes the arrow go up
2020-01-12T20:07:44 < mawk> yes
2020-01-12T20:07:55 < mawk> some internal device in your mind that tells you what is right and what is wrong
2020-01-12T20:08:48 < mawk> on a technical notes these cameras have all the same IP address when they boot, so to configure them one by one you have to do raw ethernet frames and talk to them on the MAC layer
2020-01-12T20:08:52 < mawk> because ARP won't work
2020-01-12T20:08:54 < Steffanx> "what you think is right and what you thing is wrong".
2020-01-12T20:09:00 < mawk> I found that a bit strange
2020-01-12T20:11:16 < Laurenceb> now liveleak is blacklisted by google
2020-01-12T20:11:20 < Laurenceb> the absolute state
2020-01-12T20:11:25 < mawk> censorship
2020-01-12T20:11:27 < Steffanx> in .co.uk?
2020-01-12T20:11:32 < Laurenceb> yes
2020-01-12T20:11:39 < Steffanx> then its irrelevant.
2020-01-12T20:11:47 < Steffanx> for anyone and everything
2020-01-12T20:11:57 < Laurenceb> I was trying to find the epic navy fails video to send to a relative who was thinking of joining
2020-01-12T20:12:02 < Laurenceb> apparently thats wrongthink
2020-01-12T20:12:03 < Steffanx> when will you move Laurenceb?
2020-01-12T20:12:30 < Laurenceb> like when they drop anchor on pilot boat and harbourmaster has to swim to shore... 
2020-01-12T20:13:45 < englishman> that sounds actually funny
2020-01-12T20:14:04 < englishman> why don't you post that stuff instead of your awful millenial links?
2020-01-12T20:14:20 < Laurenceb> but seriously, both uk and us navy look like community service for retards
2020-01-12T20:14:21 < Steffanx> i wonder if its funny at all
2020-01-12T20:14:21 < mawk> I like Laurenceb's links
2020-01-12T20:14:23 < mawk> I watch them all
2020-01-12T20:15:35 < BrainDamage> today I was in a hipster café for millennials
2020-01-12T20:15:41 < BrainDamage> like, the stereotype of it
2020-01-12T20:15:44 < BrainDamage> it was awful
2020-01-12T20:16:10 < BrainDamage> 12 euro for fried eggs and bacom
2020-01-12T20:16:25 < BrainDamage> all toasts had avocado, and min price was 5 bucks
2020-01-12T20:16:29 < mawk> sounds like starbucks
2020-01-12T20:16:55 < BrainDamage> all "hambugers" were vegetarian, and not even patty shaped
2020-01-12T20:17:21 < mawk> I don't get the trend of fake meat
2020-01-12T20:17:22 < BrainDamage> it was just stuff loosely sitting on on a bread slice
2020-01-12T20:17:32 < mawk> just eat regular plant looking stuff, don't make ersatz of meat
2020-01-12T20:17:32 < BrainDamage> so it was horrible to eat
2020-01-12T20:17:37 < mawk> lol
2020-01-12T20:17:53 < BrainDamage> whole chickpeas on a bread slice
2020-01-12T20:17:57 < englishman> the industry of millenials
2020-01-12T20:18:18 < BrainDamage> if they were at least turned into a paste they'd have been ok
2020-01-12T20:18:25 < BrainDamage> but not like that
2020-01-12T20:19:15 < BrainDamage> oh yeah, 25 euro for a pancake plate
2020-01-12T20:19:18 < Laurenceb> I actually found something decent google had made the other day
2020-01-12T20:19:29 < Laurenceb> semantic patent search, it actually seems to work
2020-01-12T20:19:37 < mawk> oracle will love it
2020-01-12T20:19:38 < Laurenceb> first decent product for about a decade
2020-01-12T20:19:54 < englishman> I wasn't really interested in eating that new fake meat stuff, then I saw how it was made, now I don't think I'll ever touch it
2020-01-12T20:20:23 < Laurenceb> soon muricans will have Iranian burgers
2020-01-12T20:20:39 < Laurenceb> pre toasted with missile strike
2020-01-12T20:20:49 < BrainDamage> there's a whole branch of cousine in thailand to replace meat with vegetables that look similar
2020-01-12T20:21:00 < BrainDamage> much much older than the modern hipster thing
2020-01-12T20:21:03 < mawk> yes
2020-01-12T20:21:06 < mawk> not just tailand, tibet too
2020-01-12T20:21:12 < mawk> they offer it to visitors
2020-01-12T20:21:17 < mawk> fake chiken 100% tofu
2020-01-12T20:21:21 < mawk> that totally looks like a grilled chicken
2020-01-12T20:21:25 < mawk> it's almost an art
2020-01-12T20:21:35 < BrainDamage> yeah, there's some value in that
2020-01-12T20:21:50 < englishman> tofu is good tho
2020-01-12T20:22:09 < Laurenceb> chicken is tasteless anyway
2020-01-12T20:22:25 < englishman> you live in England tho
2020-01-12T20:22:30 < englishman> where everything is tasteless
2020-01-12T20:22:34 < englishman> especially the citizens
2020-01-12T20:23:25 < mawk> lol
2020-01-12T20:23:34 < mawk> once in london in a restaurant I took "the best of england"
2020-01-12T20:23:42 < mawk> it was the worst food I ate there
2020-01-12T20:23:47 < mawk> from then on I only went to indian restuarants
2020-01-12T20:23:59 < qyx> > going to england to eat indian food
2020-01-12T20:24:05 < mawk> it was some kind of egg brioche, fish & ships, some tomato blurb with sausage
2020-01-12T20:24:10 < Steffanx> now you have to do with hutspot, boerenkool, etc. mawk :P
2020-01-12T20:24:13 < mawk> india was english at some point
2020-01-12T20:24:19 < mawk> like surinam and NL
2020-01-12T20:24:25 < mawk> I like it Steffanx 
2020-01-12T20:24:29 < mawk> zuurkool is good
2020-01-12T20:24:33 < Steffanx> blegh.
2020-01-12T20:24:34 < mawk> stamppot too
2020-01-12T20:24:50 < BrainDamage> stamppot is good
2020-01-12T20:25:20 < Steffanx> stamppot is kinda generic
2020-01-12T20:25:33 < mawk> mix all leftovers
2020-01-12T20:26:33 < Steffanx> Did you try Snert yet?
2020-01-12T20:26:43 < mawk> that sounds like snot
2020-01-12T20:26:48 < mawk> I don't want to try
2020-01-12T20:26:53 < mawk> ah, yes
2020-01-12T20:26:58 < mawk> erwtensoep ?
2020-01-12T20:27:01 < mawk> yes I like it
2020-01-12T20:27:03 < mawk> I ate that in france too
2020-01-12T20:27:17 < mawk> with spek
2020-01-12T20:27:29 < Steffanx> Snert is similar but not exactly the same
2020-01-12T20:27:33 < mawk> a
2020-01-12T20:27:39 < Laurenceb> keeek https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2020/jan/12/ricky-gervais-and-jeremy-clarkson-are-no-laughing-matter
2020-01-12T20:28:00 < Laurenceb> dat illustration
2020-01-12T20:28:15 < Laurenceb> literally "literally hitler"
2020-01-12T20:30:36 < mawk> I like fermented cassis Steffanx 
2020-01-12T20:30:38 < mawk> do you like it ?
2020-01-12T20:30:40 < mawk> the drink
2020-01-12T20:31:00 < Steffanx> never heard of it
2020-01-12T20:31:25 < Steffanx> or do you mean what we just call "cassis"?
2020-01-12T20:31:34 < mawk> zwarten bessen ?
2020-01-12T20:31:41 < Laurenceb> >A Bugatti Chiron Super Sport, covered in actual swastikas and driven by an armed incel blogger 
2020-01-12T20:31:45 < mawk> cassis is the little black fruit
2020-01-12T20:31:50 < Laurenceb> irl kekking
2020-01-12T20:31:51 < mawk> blackcurrent I think
2020-01-12T20:31:58 < mawk> currant
2020-01-12T20:32:25 < mawk> Steffanx: https://www.hero.nl/fruit/producten/frisdranken/hero-original-cassis-125-l
2020-01-12T20:32:27 < BrainDamage> armed or not is kinda irrelevant to a person's quality, but that's some poor taste in aestheticcs
2020-01-12T20:32:46 < Steffanx> yeah that. i dont hate it mawk
2020-01-12T20:33:07 < mawk> good
2020-01-12T20:33:16 < mawk> that's what I drink during biertje uur
2020-01-12T20:34:28 < Steffanx> as in friday after work?
2020-01-12T20:34:32 < mawk> yes
2020-01-12T21:15:48 < zyp> https://bin.jvnv.net/file/EBXVH.png
2020-01-12T21:16:07 < zyp> could easily have done this in a 50x50mm footprint if the PoE module wasn't so long
2020-01-12T21:16:38 < qyx> arent there alternatives?
2020-01-12T21:16:50 < qyx> meanwell has some 18-73Vin isolated power supplies
2020-01-12T21:16:52 < qyx> ~15W
2020-01-12T21:17:05 < qyx> not PoE though
2020-01-12T21:17:20 < zyp> dunno, but meh
2020-01-12T21:17:58 < zyp> 85mm long is not too bad, same as an rpi
2020-01-12T21:18:17 < BrainDamage> add some fancy silk art to not make the space seem wasted
2020-01-12T21:19:20 < qyx> 2.54mm pitch proto space!
2020-01-12T21:19:31 < qyx> and post on hackaday
2020-01-12T21:20:41 < zyp> https://bin.jvnv.net/file/KfWnp.png
2020-01-12T21:20:51 < zyp> VBUS, VDD, VDDA, GND
2020-01-12T21:21:15 < zyp> the small GND rectangle is reference ground for the traces running on the bottom
2020-01-12T21:21:23 < zyp> not sure how necessary, but eh
2020-01-12T21:21:26 < qyx> I would increase clearances of poe pins
2020-01-12T21:21:43 < Laurenceb> why not make ur own PoE ?
2020-01-12T21:21:48 < Laurenceb> isnt it just a smps?
2020-01-12T21:22:03 < qyx> isolated
2020-01-12T21:22:04 < qyx> so meh
2020-01-12T21:22:12 < zyp> isolated, also handshake shit
2020-01-12T21:22:17 < Laurenceb> ah
2020-01-12T21:22:23 < BrainDamage> active poe has handshake
2020-01-12T21:22:35 < Laurenceb> add a silkscreen saying "ladyada" or something
2020-01-12T21:22:37 < BrainDamage> passive poe has the feature it burns the socket of non-poe devices
2020-01-12T21:22:41 < Laurenceb> lol
2020-01-12T21:23:00 < Laurenceb> isnt everything supposed to be isolated to >>48v ?
2020-01-12T21:23:35 < Cracki> active is supposed to turn on the voltage once the cable is in the socket
2020-01-12T21:23:49 < Cracki> so you don't get sparks
2020-01-12T21:23:58 < zyp> https://www.aliexpress.com/item/33038562052.html <- footprint will fit this sort of module
2020-01-12T21:24:19 < kakipro> good?
2020-01-12T21:24:27 < Steffanx> fine
2020-01-12T21:25:03 < kakipro> used it?
2020-01-12T21:32:33 < Steffanx> nah not me
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2020-01-12T21:43:23 < Cracki> uhhh ozone 3.10b doesn't have the "graph" anymore... 2.70 had it
2020-01-12T21:43:26 < Cracki> or am I dumb
2020-01-12T21:44:56 < Cracki> ah, renamed to "data sampling"
2020-01-12T21:45:45 < Cracki> nope, it's gone
2020-01-12T21:46:10 < Cracki> lol they unified it all into a "timeline"
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2020-01-12T21:53:31 < qyx> so my search for a ~10 channel 12+ bit ADC ended
2020-01-12T21:53:45 < qyx> STM32G0 is cheaper and 12bit + oversampling
2020-01-12T21:53:52 < thardin> that's a lotta channels
2020-01-12T21:55:53 < kakipro> why even look for adc if those are the requirements?
2020-01-12T21:56:14 < qyx> because i wanted a firmwareless solution
2020-01-12T21:56:23 < qyx> eg. over i2c
2020-01-12T21:56:30 < kakipro> hmm yes
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2020-01-12T22:32:00 < Laurenceb> stm32 adc is epin pro
2020-01-12T22:32:38 < Laurenceb> actually does have the number of bits claimed and oversampling works
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2020-01-12T23:28:46 < Laurenceb> https://www.reddit.com/r/consumeproduct
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2020-01-13T01:41:45 < jadew> https://youtu.be/3F9z-NoWHwU?t=32
2020-01-13T01:47:13 < Cracki> that dude seems to make a career of empowering women
2020-01-13T01:47:50 < Cracki> a dollar?!? nobody's ever seen a DOLLAR
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2020-01-13T01:49:21 < Cracki> til: youtube desktop lets you drag into view the left side panel. grab whitespace to the left of the video's title (under the video)
2020-01-13T01:52:03 < jadew> didn't know about that
2020-01-13T01:57:05 < Cracki> happened when i tried to select the title to dump it into my fav torrent site
2020-01-13T02:32:01 -!- Mangy_Dog [Mangy_Dog@unaffiliated/mangy-dog/x-3069595] has quit [Ping timeout: 268 seconds]
2020-01-13T02:46:32 < jadew> a million ways to die in the west - just saw it, it's cute
2020-01-13T02:50:57 < antto> 1) get shot in da hood by a kid with a gun
2020-01-13T02:55:45 < jadew> charlize theron is hot
2020-01-13T02:56:06 < Cracki> take your horny and make children
2020-01-13T02:56:27 < Cracki> the world needs more europeans
2020-01-13T02:56:37 < jadew> already used my horny today
2020-01-13T03:14:33 < mawk> https://gitlab.serveur.io/nicolas/splitvpn
2020-01-13T03:14:35 < mawk> I'm doing dis
2020-01-13T03:14:42 < mawk> pro tier networking program
2020-01-13T03:18:09 < mawk> using BPF stuff
2020-01-13T03:18:12 < mawk> you will like it BrainDamage 
2020-01-13T03:18:40 < mawk> but strangely the BPF stuff which is supposed to be this super cool advanced technology of JIT'd vm in the linux kernel takes me like 10 lines to be done with
2020-01-13T03:19:07 < mawk> while systemd which is the very thing that allows to create services and control groups takes me about 450 lines to deal with to simply move a process to a new control cgroup
2020-01-13T03:19:24 < mawk> and after that people say systemd is badmouthed for no valid reason
2020-01-13T03:20:45 < Cracki> >systemd
2020-01-13T03:21:37 < Cracki> lenny is a php coder at heart.
2020-01-13T03:22:37 < mawk> lol
2020-01-13T03:37:49 < Laurenceb> wow
2020-01-13T03:37:50 < Laurenceb> https://forum.nasaspaceflight.com/index.php?topic=27151.120
2020-01-13T03:38:00 < Laurenceb> they managed to be more retarded than emdrive
2020-01-13T03:39:01 < Laurenceb> https://forum.nasaspaceflight.com/assets/27151.0/1594007.jpg
2020-01-13T03:39:06 < Laurenceb> powered by woo
2020-01-13T03:41:30 < Laurenceb> >a MHD powered ion engine using its own exhaust as a power source
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2020-01-13T08:26:12 < thardin> wut
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2020-01-13T08:26:30 < thardin> sounds like a PPT engine
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2020-01-13T08:30:02 < thardin> wait do they think they're going to get up to orbital speeds using that? I see so many problems with it
2020-01-13T08:45:05 < jly> IS ANYONE HERE ON THE SPECTRUM
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2020-01-13T09:12:58 < thardin> absolutely not
2020-01-13T09:13:28 < thardin> this is a safe space for allos
2020-01-13T09:15:15 < thardin> feel free to talk about your friends behind their backs, worry about what other people think, all that stuff
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2020-01-13T09:31:02 < jly> is stefan here
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2020-01-13T10:29:07 < Steffanx> Nah.
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2020-01-13T10:29:26 < jpa-> steffie is still in bed
2020-01-13T10:29:48 < Steffanx> His body is not. His mind is.
2020-01-13T10:34:03 < jly> ty jpa
2020-01-13T10:34:11 < jly> and good morning all
2020-01-13T10:44:59 < Steffanx> Gooday sir
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2020-01-13T12:32:16 < karlp> heh, found an avr32 in a product
2020-01-13T12:32:49 < karlp> with tag connect and all
2020-01-13T12:41:42 < qyx> lol
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2020-01-13T13:11:52 < qyx> New Portenta H7 board leverages STM32H747 dual-core & high-level language programmation
2020-01-13T13:11:55 < qyx> so iot
2020-01-13T13:12:53 < qyx> DisplayPort over USB-C O_o
2020-01-13T13:13:46 < qyx> I cannot see any schematic
2020-01-13T13:19:25 < zyp> a H7 that does displayport?
2020-01-13T13:19:40 < zyp> using some DSI to DP translator chip?
2020-01-13T13:20:02 < qyx> https://www.st.com/en/ecosystems/arduino-portenta-h7.html
2020-01-13T13:20:25 < zyp> huh, small even
2020-01-13T13:20:32 < qyx> aha this is the original web https://www.arduino.cc/pro/hardware/product/portenta-h7
2020-01-13T13:21:57 < qyx> https://content.arduino.cc/assets/Arduino-PortentaH7-schematic-V1.0.pdf
2020-01-13T13:23:26 < zyp> ah, ANX7625
2020-01-13T13:25:23 < qyx> yeah
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2020-01-13T13:32:25 < jpa-> cool board, but i have no idea what i'd use it for :)
2020-01-13T13:49:10 < jpa-> meh, forget to add one file to git and suddenly my inbox is full of "Build failed" "Build fails on STM32" "Build fails on Ubuntu18.04" "Build fails on AVR" "Build fails on Windows"
2020-01-13T13:57:17 < karlp> arduino sketches running on mbed os :)
2020-01-13T14:07:54 < PaulFertser> "Build fails on STM32" lol
2020-01-13T15:16:55 < Thorn> zynq cheaper than h747 https://www.aliexpress.com/item/32562462491.html
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2020-01-13T16:20:41 < Steffanx> So did anyone here ever do some real device with an SD card and card about the (possible required) licenses?
2020-01-13T16:20:50 < Steffanx> Cared*
2020-01-13T16:24:46 < jpa-> did devices, used spi mode, should have just used sd mode, never minded about licenses
2020-01-13T16:26:14 < qyx> is the lic required for spi  mode too?
2020-01-13T16:29:00 < jpa-> afaik no
2020-01-13T16:46:19 < qyx> mhm
2020-01-13T17:12:05 < Steffanx> Isnt the protocol itself licensed? ACMD41 isnt a MMC command. 
2020-01-13T17:13:01 < Steffanx> And I can find nowhere SPI wouldn't violate anything. Except for something on wikipedia, but that sentence comes without a reference
2020-01-13T17:13:30 < Steffanx> Except the SDA who says you should pay the monies when using spi
2020-01-13T17:14:57 < Steffanx> But that as someone said "Ask the barber if you need a haircut"
2020-01-13T17:16:12 < Steffanx> That is as*
2020-01-13T17:16:33 < Steffanx> Learn to type all words Steffanx  
2020-01-13T17:18:54 < Steffanx> I get the idea no one really cares. 
2020-01-13T17:19:15 < Steffanx> Except for the few listed at some website
2020-01-13T17:26:58 < karlp> well, it meant sd "won" :)
2020-01-13T17:27:25 < karlp> you can't buy the xd version of the hub+card reader I'm using without providing your xd licensee number to microchip :)
2020-01-13T17:27:35 < zyp> haha
2020-01-13T17:28:07 < Steffanx> Heh
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2020-01-13T17:56:52 < qyx> I have seen that one
2020-01-13T17:57:07 < qyx> isn't there a vesion wiht the xd core disabled too?
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2020-01-13T18:00:09 < karlp> something like that.
2020-01-13T18:00:19 < karlp> I'm not sure if it's actually enforced either, just in the pdfs
2020-01-13T18:00:42  * karlp shrugs. xd is deader than bsd or something...
2020-01-13T18:02:23 < karlp> aiui, xd was "raw nand in a card" so all the joy of wear levelling too
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2020-01-13T18:09:34 < zyp> looks like
2020-01-13T18:09:43 < zyp> «Additionally, SmartMedia and xD card readers can be used to read the data from NAND flash chips in electronic devices, by soldering leads between the chip and the card reader.»
2020-01-13T18:14:22 < englishman> Thorn: wut
2020-01-13T18:15:30 < englishman> wasn't XD Olympus
2020-01-13T18:15:43 < englishman> that's true they wanted to take over the flash market didn't they
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2020-01-13T18:45:09 < karlp> xd was olympus/fuji
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2020-01-13T18:57:54 < tctw> tct
2020-01-13T19:06:19 < Steffanx> The bastard.
2020-01-13T19:06:33 < Steffanx> I mean: hiiiiii tctw 
2020-01-13T19:06:39 < tctw> hi there o/
2020-01-13T19:06:44 < tctw> sup and stuff
2020-01-13T19:11:40 < Steffanx> Same old, same old, same old sky.
2020-01-13T19:12:26 < tctw> very domey
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2020-01-13T21:37:37 < antto> https://i.imgur.com/UdbHiFs.jpg
2020-01-13T21:40:20 < qyx> antto: does the onlne instant quote work for you?
2020-01-13T21:40:38 < antto> uh, on.. which website?
2020-01-13T21:40:43 < qyx> I fill in WxH, pcb number
2020-01-13T21:41:00 < qyx> and then the round progress thing appears on the right
2020-01-13T21:41:02 < qyx> allpcb
2020-01-13T21:41:49 < antto> seems to work
2020-01-13T21:42:09 < qyx> this one specifically https://www.allpcb.com/online_pcb_quote.html
2020-01-13T21:43:29 < antto> yeah, it works
2020-01-13T21:45:45 < qyx> interesting
2020-01-13T21:59:14 < qyx> works on a tablet
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2020-01-13T22:31:22 < kakibro> https://syncthing.net/downloads/ anyone used this?
2020-01-13T22:35:20 < Steffanx> i think englishman mentioned it a few times
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2020-01-13T22:56:30 < kakibro> just mentioned
2020-01-13T22:56:33 < kakibro> ?
2020-01-13T22:56:38 < kakibro> like I did?
2020-01-13T22:56:51 < jadew> bought a pair of speakers today, thought they were creative
2020-01-13T22:56:59 < jadew> they are genius
2020-01-13T22:57:04 < kakibro> why would you buy creative
2020-01-13T22:57:04 < jadew> "Genius"
2020-01-13T22:57:14 < kakibro> probs better than creative
2020-01-13T22:57:17 < jadew> kakibro, because I've had really good experience with their stuff in the past
2020-01-13T22:57:44 < kakibro> I have only experience of their low-end products from 2000s
2020-01-13T22:57:55 < jadew> I still have a 5.1 system from them that works flawless 17 years after I bought it
2020-01-13T22:58:13 < kakibro> jelly
2020-01-13T22:58:21 < jadew> I don't think these speakers are high-end... they were like $200-$300
2020-01-13T22:58:28 < kakibro> those are probs ok
2020-01-13T22:58:51 < kakibro> I know that 5.1 I used to drool over them
2020-01-13T22:59:00 < kakibro> when I was kid
2020-01-13T22:59:27 < kakibro> cool looking and shit
2020-01-13T22:59:35 < kakibro> probs still cool looking
2020-01-13T23:01:16 < jadew> these are not that cool looking
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2020-01-13T23:01:34 < jadew> https://www.amazon.co.uk/Creative-Inspire-P5800-5-1-channel-multimedia/dp/B0002YL7D8
2020-01-13T23:01:39 < jadew> I think this is it
2020-01-13T23:02:36 < jadew> found a recent price on a local shop (they're not for sale anymore) but it looks that by the time they were on their way out, they went for a little over $50
2020-01-13T23:02:38 < kakibro> I cannot find that 4.1 or 5.1 from my youth
2020-01-13T23:02:42 < kakibro> creative
2020-01-13T23:02:52 < kakibro> it had blue display in one of the speakers
2020-01-13T23:03:00 < jadew> these ones come with an actual transformer
2020-01-13T23:03:02 < jadew> it's huge
2020-01-13T23:03:28 < jadew> about as big as one of those satellites, if not bigger
2020-01-13T23:04:13 < jadew> I keep them at maximum volume
2020-01-13T23:04:41 < jadew> and I hear nothing if there's no signal coming out of the sound card
2020-01-13T23:06:04 < jadew> I had a cool idea just now
2020-01-13T23:06:12 < jadew> business cards that fade away after a certain time
2020-01-13T23:06:42 < jadew> you give them to people who you don't want to hear from after a while
2020-01-13T23:08:48 < karlp> just thermal print them :)
2020-01-13T23:08:59 < jadew> karlp, that's how I thought about it :P
2020-01-13T23:09:15 < jadew> I was thinking I could thermal print a card, but it would fade away :P
2020-01-13T23:09:36 < jadew> but you could make this into a feature, if the fade would happen quickly and after a known period of time
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2020-01-13T23:10:21 < karlp> sounds like a disaster
2020-01-13T23:10:29 < karlp> or a masssssive materials research project
2020-01-13T23:10:45 < karlp> getting consistent fade times over temp/humi of environments sounds like pain
2020-01-13T23:10:46 < jadew> yeah
2020-01-13T23:11:06 < karlp> unless you can come up with a more revenue rich reason for doing them :)
2020-01-13T23:11:23 < jadew> also, you'd have to make it trigger once you expose them to the air
2020-01-13T23:11:39 < jadew> otherwise they'd go blank in your wallet
2020-01-13T23:12:30 < karlp> eink with an embedded battery...
2020-01-13T23:12:44 < jadew> that could work
2020-01-13T23:12:45 < karlp> yet moah ewaste
2020-01-13T23:13:02 < jadew> it's cool if you have money
2020-01-13T23:13:18 < jadew> you could make that to switch the address/phone number to something else
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2020-01-13T23:13:37 < jadew> say... 1 month => personal phone number and e-mail
2020-01-13T23:13:48 < jadew> 2 months+ => secretary
2020-01-13T23:15:14 < kakibro> big boss jadew
2020-01-13T23:15:31 < kakibro> designing how to make people not to contact him
2020-01-13T23:15:38 < jadew> lol
2020-01-13T23:15:54 < kakibro> just make impression of availibility
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2020-01-13T23:24:12 < Steffanx> no mr kakibro, i recall he actually used it
2020-01-13T23:24:35 < Steffanx> learn to read what i not said :P
2020-01-13T23:24:36 < kakibro> what year?
2020-01-13T23:24:42 < Steffanx> last year?
2020-01-13T23:24:48 < Steffanx> idk
2020-01-13T23:24:49 < jadew> what?
2020-01-13T23:24:52 < Steffanx> pizza
2020-01-13T23:24:55 < kakibro> yes
2020-01-13T23:25:00 < kakibro> movie steff
2020-01-13T23:25:24 < Steffanx> Zombieland: Double tap
2020-01-13T23:25:34 < Steffanx> Rambo: Last Blood.
2020-01-13T23:25:37 < Steffanx> Ready or Not.
2020-01-13T23:25:46 < Steffanx> The Informer.
2020-01-13T23:25:49 < Steffanx> Code 8
2020-01-13T23:26:04 < jadew> wow
2020-01-13T23:26:09 < Steffanx> Maleficent: Mistress of Evil :P
2020-01-13T23:26:11 < jadew> I have to write them down
2020-01-13T23:26:17 < jadew> saw maleficent
2020-01-13T23:26:34 < jadew> with big boobs angie
2020-01-13T23:26:47 < Steffanx> https://imgur.com/a/Zg0mrHN ahum.
2020-01-13T23:27:09 < Steffanx> > recently added
2020-01-13T23:27:35 < Steffanx> Not sure why i got Ford v Ferrari. as i probably wont watch it
2020-01-13T23:28:03 < Thorn> https://support.jlcpcb.com/article/73-jlcpcb-spring-festival-holiday-schedule
2020-01-13T23:28:52 < Steffanx> Found one kakibro?
2020-01-13T23:29:23 < kakibro> ford v ferrari was a lot of engine revings
2020-01-13T23:29:37 < kakibro> basically 2hours of reving engines
2020-01-13T23:29:52 < jadew> grr...
2020-01-13T23:30:13 < jadew> I'm running a test, and it crashed after ~ an hour
2020-01-13T23:30:23 < jadew> and it didn't record any of the data
2020-01-13T23:30:25 < kakibro> shelby document was more interesting than ford v ferrari
2020-01-13T23:31:35 < Steffanx> i bet
2020-01-13T23:34:16 < kakibro> no no
2020-01-13T23:34:20 < kakibro> it was actually very interesting
2020-01-13T23:34:33 < kakibro> it's the story
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2020-01-13T23:51:55 < qyx> so I ordered esp32-cam, it comes with a 0V2640 camera preinstalled
2020-01-13T23:52:23 < qyx> it is super shitty quality
2020-01-13T23:52:50 < qyx> I found an older OV2640 which I was playing with (+ stm32)
2020-01-13T23:52:57 < qyx> and replaced it
2020-01-13T23:53:35 < qyx> now the picture is less noisy, rotated 90° and using the same JPEG settings it makes ~2 times bigger pictures
2020-01-13T23:54:08 < qyx> so I am curious if the OV2640 shipped with esp32-cam is a china clone or what
2020-01-13T23:55:14 < qyx> anyway, esp-idf is a mess
--- Day changed Tue Jan 14 2020
2020-01-14T00:09:07 < kakibro> ov2640 is like the cheapest thing
2020-01-14T00:09:07 < kakibro> so likelly yes
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2020-01-14T01:32:52 < jadew> I hate imperial measures
2020-01-14T01:33:07 < jadew> especially since I got used to imperial SMD packages
2020-01-14T01:33:19 < jadew> and I can't switch now
2020-01-14T01:34:41 < jadew> also... watch out for mouser pricing
2020-01-14T01:34:52 < jadew> 9 resistors are more expensive than 100
2020-01-14T01:35:36 < jadew> price for 9 = 3.85 romoney, price for 100 = 3.3
2020-01-14T01:44:00 < Cracki> both tape?
2020-01-14T01:44:13 < jadew> yep, exact same part number
2020-01-14T01:44:30 < Cracki> they prolly stock round numbers and wanting speshul is extra work
2020-01-14T01:44:33 < jadew> those were the volume pricing options
2020-01-14T01:44:40 < Cracki> ah!
2020-01-14T01:44:49 < Cracki> so 3.85/piece and 3.3/piece
2020-01-14T01:45:14 < jadew> no, it was 0.385 for one, if you bought less than 10
2020-01-14T01:45:20 < jadew> and 0.033 if you bought 100
2020-01-14T01:45:21 < Cracki> ic
2020-01-14T01:45:43 < Cracki> that's how I end up with bunches of something from aliex
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2020-01-14T01:59:49 < qyx> is 3.2x1.5mm common size for 32k XTALs?
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2020-01-14T03:08:14 < aandrew> Yes I think so. 32kHz has a weird size in my experience
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2020-01-14T03:17:05 < Laurenceb> take the brown pill
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2020-01-14T05:31:32 < englishman> only stardink will offer uncensored interwebs to Laurenceb
2020-01-14T05:31:40 < englishman> that is why he is afraid of it
2020-01-14T05:34:42 < Laurenceb> the brownpill is hard to swallow, but easy to find in your local public toilet
2020-01-14T05:34:57 < Laurenceb> forget the red, blue, white, and blackpills
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2020-01-14T08:04:49 < emeb_mac> classy
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2020-01-14T11:00:09 < jadew> a new law has passed in Romania regarding psychological bullying in schools
2020-01-14T11:00:30 < jadew> it only applies if it happens in a social context that is difficult to avoid
2020-01-14T11:00:46 < jadew> and if there is an imbalance in power
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2020-01-14T11:55:47 < Cracki> and of course children aren't *ever* in an imbalance with each other
2020-01-14T11:57:10 < Cracki> “New Jersey jokes” https://www.romania-insider.com/comment-anti-bullying-law-romania-us-2018
2020-01-14T11:59:17 < Cracki> oh hell, the ADL was involved in nj
2020-01-14T11:59:57 < thardin> sounds similar to what we have in sweden. but it doesn't work very well
2020-01-14T12:02:49 < Cracki> how so
2020-01-14T12:03:13 < thardin> they tend to "solve" it by transferring the victims to other schools
2020-01-14T12:03:19 < thardin> or used to at least. maybe it's better now
2020-01-14T12:04:03 < Cracki> that's dumb
2020-01-14T12:04:18 < thardin> yes, it's less than ideal
2020-01-14T12:05:04 < Cracki> that just causes "runts" to bounce around and nobody teaches them how to deal with bullies
2020-01-14T12:05:13 < dongs> butties
2020-01-14T12:05:30 < Cracki> anti bullying efforts are wasted if authority punishes the bully. that eventually stops.
2020-01-14T12:05:52 < Cracki> and then individuals have to deal with bullies themselves. that needs to be taught.
2020-01-14T12:06:05 < Cracki> i.e. if that jock insults you, shoot him
2020-01-14T12:06:06 < thardin> that's an atomized solution
2020-01-14T12:06:16 < thardin> what tends to work quite well is to get parents involved
2020-01-14T12:06:22 < Cracki> parents = authority
2020-01-14T12:06:30 < Cracki> again, method of an oppressive state
2020-01-14T12:06:41 < thardin> u dont tell me what to do mom
2020-01-14T12:06:48 < Cracki> this teaches that you should rely on authority, i.e. parents and later police
2020-01-14T12:06:54 < Cracki> and nobody can rely on police in sweden
2020-01-14T12:07:35 < thardin> police r bad so that's hardly a loss
2020-01-14T12:08:34 < Cracki> what you describe is what they did in my school back then. it was worthless. appealing to authority means teaching "runts" to become even bigger "runts", play helpless instead of become stronger.
2020-01-14T12:09:51 < Cracki> I had such a runt around me at university. awful. he was afraid of anything and everything. total mess.
2020-01-14T12:10:07 < thardin> this entirely depends on context
2020-01-14T12:10:27 < Cracki> muricans figured out that mass shootings happen because of bullying.
2020-01-14T12:11:00 < Cracki> that's the natural response, to meet force (bullying) with greater force (killing) to *end* it.
2020-01-14T12:11:17 < thardin> I'd prefer if bullies learned to not bully instead of being murdered
2020-01-14T12:11:18 < Cracki> and that is what should be taken and moulded. you don't have to shoot a bully, you just have to make him stop.
2020-01-14T12:11:19 < thardin> but maybe that's just me
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2020-01-14T12:12:12 < Cracki> that's the other side of the problem, teaching civil behavior and respect
2020-01-14T12:12:40 < Cracki> religion teaches fear of an authority to make people behave according to code
2020-01-14T12:13:11 < Cracki> that makes compliance dependent on there being someone who sees the deed and can punish it.
2020-01-14T12:13:54 < Cracki> I find it better when potential bullies have to suspect anyone to be able to hit back, so they don't try that shit
2020-01-14T12:14:40 < thardin> sure, if you can make that happen. but if you're alone vs 3 older dudes say then no
2020-01-14T12:14:41 < Cracki> sure, fair and reliable punishment should be part of it. our societies work because we make an effort to maintain that structure
2020-01-14T12:15:36 < Cracki> not everyone can be saved. there's that 1% of psychopaths you can't fix.
2020-01-14T12:16:01 < Cracki> wat do? all the proper solutions I have in mind seem unacceptable today
2020-01-14T12:18:32 < thardin> most bullies aren't psychopathic
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2020-01-14T12:24:07 < thardin> empathy can be taught, as can callousness
2020-01-14T12:26:46 < Cracki> that means teaching the parents to be better too
2020-01-14T12:26:57 < Cracki> you have no idea how unequipped single moms are to raise sons
2020-01-14T12:27:36 < qyx> Swappable Tx/Rx pin configuration
2020-01-14T12:27:44 < qyx> haha for all of us who cannot connect rxd/txd properly
2020-01-14T12:28:11 < Cracki> congrats
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2020-01-14T12:30:53 < thardin> nice
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2020-01-14T12:48:37 < dongs> oh wow
2020-01-14T12:48:42 < dongs> segger embedded studio UX is fucking awful
2020-01-14T12:48:52 < dongs> i guess they're not getting any of my money despite keil sucking
2020-01-14T12:48:58 < dongs> tried to legit use it for liek 30 mins
2020-01-14T12:48:59 < dongs> its so bad
2020-01-14T12:51:22 < karlp> man, cracki, you're getting worse.
2020-01-14T12:51:35 < karlp> school shootings are good, correct response to bullying...
2020-01-14T12:54:43 < dongs> i mean hes not wrong
2020-01-14T12:59:48 < thardin> if suicide by cop or lifetime prison is what you're after then sure
2020-01-14T13:07:47 < dongs> omfg and you cant disable fucking aut-complete of ()
2020-01-14T13:07:53 < dongs> this is the biggest fucking autistic showstopper for me
2020-01-14T13:08:18 < dongs> who the fuck could POSSIBLY find this useful? when you're writing function parameters, the closing ) is gonna be like tens of keystrokes away
2020-01-14T13:08:25 < dongs> you need to think waht arguments to provide and shit
2020-01-14T13:08:35 < dongs> having that fucking closed ) trailing your cursor all the god damn time is FUCKING ANNOYING AS FUCK
2020-01-14T13:10:27 < karlp> yah, a few editors do that, it takes some getting used to, and half the time gets it wrong anwyay, and you have to type the ) anyway to be able to type a ;, or move you fingers to arrow keys and shit
2020-01-14T13:12:04 < dongs> yeah no, i just want that gone full-stop
2020-01-14T13:14:20 < zyp> Hi! I see you've typed a (, would you like a ) to go with that?
2020-01-14T13:14:54 < zyp> it's even worse when you type a { and then you get a } trailing along while you do the entire function body
2020-01-14T13:19:45 < Steffanx> I guess I'm dumb  since I hardly ever have real issues with this
2020-01-14T13:20:00 < qyx> it is the first thing I am trying to disable
2020-01-14T13:20:17 < qyx> smart home too
2020-01-14T13:20:35 < qyx> and indent by spaces too
2020-01-14T13:22:00 < Steffanx> Tabs you meant
2020-01-14T13:24:33 < qyx> no, tabs are for indentation, spaces are to be inserted between things
2020-01-14T13:24:43 < zyp> that
2020-01-14T13:24:52 < qyx> the other way around is simply wrong
2020-01-14T13:25:00 < qyx> eg. tables with tabs, or indenting with spaces
2020-01-14T13:25:11 < qyx> because tab width is configurable
2020-01-14T13:25:22 < zyp> I can accept indenting with spaces, but using tabs for anything but indenting is retarded
2020-01-14T13:29:25 < Steffanx> Oh I misinterpreted you qyx
2020-01-14T13:29:29 < Steffanx> Oops
2020-01-14T13:41:07 < jpa-> gah, i never knew avr-gcc (at the old versions everyone seems to be using) is so stupid  https://godbolt.org/z/qxoW-y
2020-01-14T13:42:24 < dongs>  god damn
2020-01-14T13:42:29 < dongs> and it positions the cursor on wrong end of ()
2020-01-14T13:42:32 < dongs> so even if you hit end key
2020-01-14T13:42:37 < dongs> it doesnt register (???) for some reason
2020-01-14T13:42:43 < dongs> so you hit end + backspace, it doesnt delete the fucking) still
2020-01-14T13:42:46 < dongs> but deletes the *( inf font of it
2020-01-14T13:42:51 < dongs> holy shit this is annoying
2020-01-14T13:44:41 < karlp> jpa-: avr-gcc 9.2 seems to do the right thing :)
2020-01-14T13:45:05 < karlp> or I presume it's the right thing, don't remember enoug habout how avrs work internally
2020-01-14T13:45:12 < jpa-> yeah, it does
2020-01-14T13:45:22 < jpa-> now i just need to get the world to upgrade
2020-01-14T13:48:01 < zyp> shouldn't this function inline anyway?
2020-01-14T13:49:22 < jpa-> yeah, but it inlines just as badly
2020-01-14T13:49:29 < zyp> https://godbolt.org/z/Ack5Dr <- no it doesn't
2020-01-14T13:49:36 < zyp> at least not in this case
2020-01-14T13:49:55 < jpa-> ah yeah, with constants it seems to optimize
2020-01-14T13:51:24 < zyp> but yeah, apparently it fucks up as soon as you introduce variables
2020-01-14T13:51:32 < zyp> fun
2020-01-14T13:53:04 < englishman> compilation fails on msp430 gcc
2020-01-14T13:53:36 < englishman> cool site
2020-01-14T13:55:36 < jpa-> i'm surprised msp430 gcc doesn't support code generation for attiny816 ;)
2020-01-14T13:57:55 < englishman> I'm on my phone did I miss something chip specific? looked like just a shift and or?
2020-01-14T13:59:05 < jpa-> command line args
2020-01-14T14:00:24 < englishman> heh
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2020-01-14T14:21:39 < Steffanx> AVR jpa-  ?!
2020-01-14T14:34:41 < zyp> dongs, usbc adapter arrived, turns out it works perfectly even with phone
2020-01-14T14:36:20 < zyp> wasn't sure phone would source enough power, so that was a bit surprising
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2020-01-14T14:54:44 < jpa-> Steffanx: yeah i finally figured out stm32 is too complex for mee
2020-01-14T14:55:19 < Steffanx> Ah. I'm glad you woke up.
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2020-01-14T14:59:26 < karlp> adapter for?
2020-01-14T15:04:58 < zyp> http://abusemark.com/store/index.php?main_page=product_info&products_id=59
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2020-01-14T15:10:05 < Steffanx> Cool :)
2020-01-14T15:11:10 < Steffanx> Got two of the DP version with a display, but I never used them again after I got my new pc -_-
2020-01-14T15:15:14 < zyp> yeah, I got a panel in an enclosure and everything, never really had anything to use it for though
2020-01-14T15:21:57 < zyp> but I recently got wife a NUC to replace her aging laptop, and this thing will probably do nicely as a travel monitor for it
2020-01-14T15:22:22 < zyp> figured it was kinda pointless to get her a new laptop when it's gonna spend most of its lifetime sitting still on a desk
2020-01-14T15:36:51 < zyp> one of the problems with the DP version was that it was kinda impossible to find any mini-usb cables that wouldn't drop too much voltage
2020-01-14T15:37:33 < zyp> with usb-c it's just a matter of grabbing any PD-rated usb3 cable
2020-01-14T15:38:07 < zyp> and no need for any adapters and shit, just one plain cable for signal and power
2020-01-14T15:38:54 < zyp> usb-c is great, looking forward until everything will use it
2020-01-14T15:43:12 < Steffanx> I never checked the voltage, but it worked fine
2020-01-14T15:47:04 < thardin> PD only goes up to 20V?
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2020-01-14T17:14:10 < englishman> only?
2020-01-14T17:21:34 < thardin> I'd have expected 48V or something
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2020-01-14T17:52:16 < Steffanx> Is ReadError_  alright? Do you know?
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2020-01-14T17:55:12 < bitmask> hmmm, Ive been procrastinating because I'm not sure how to hold the heating panels in place, I sewed the sides so that they can't move laterally but I need to figure out the bottom.  I want to be able to take the panels out so I cant just sew them in fully, I'm thinking of trying to just sew an inch in from both sides.  I'm hoping I can still remove/insert it reasonably easily but will still stay in place.  Other ideas were adding
2020-01-14T17:55:13 < bitmask>  snaps or a zipper
2020-01-14T17:55:58 < Ultrasauce> velcro
2020-01-14T17:56:41 < bitmask> I was thinking that too but worried it would be a little thick
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2020-01-14T18:06:22 < bitmask> also I have to decide on what I wanna do for power, I'm between keeping my huge ass battery pack, making a new one with smaller pouch cells, or 18650s
2020-01-14T18:07:30 < BrainDamage> imo go for pouch, flat packs are less encumbering
2020-01-14T18:07:39 < BrainDamage> plus you can distribute the weight
2020-01-14T18:08:05 < BrainDamage> ideally you should place the weight balanced on the shoulders
2020-01-14T18:08:55 < bitmask> I dont think splitting up the packs is a great idea, is it?
2020-01-14T18:09:02 < bitmask> that was my original plan but I changed it
2020-01-14T18:09:57 < BrainDamage> why is it a problem?
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2020-01-14T18:11:01 < bitmask> I guess you would have to keep the wires going to the connection point exactly the same length, otherwise there would be a voltage difference
2020-01-14T18:11:50 < BrainDamage> that's not a problem, batteries in parallel self-equalize
2020-01-14T18:12:08 < bitmask> and I didnt want to use pouch cells on my back anywhere for fear that I would lean back and bend them
2020-01-14T18:12:19 < BrainDamage> you can print a hard shell
2020-01-14T18:12:33 < bitmask> that adds a lot of thickness
2020-01-14T18:12:47 < BrainDamage> still less than say a 18650
2020-01-14T18:13:07 < bitmask> not sure thats true
2020-01-14T18:15:10 < bitmask> 18mm is the diameter of 18650, a case would be at least 4mm (2mm on each side and thats not very strong) and the pouch cells would be like 6mm each, id probably want 2 stacked, comes out about the same
2020-01-14T18:15:42 < BrainDamage> why stacking 2?
2020-01-14T18:16:15 < bitmask> yea I guess I wouldnt need to if separating the parallel cells
2020-01-14T18:16:34 < BrainDamage> also you can fill both front and back
2020-01-14T18:16:41 < BrainDamage> around the pectorals
2020-01-14T18:19:16 < bitmask> https://batteryhookup.com/collections/green-friday-weekend-deals/products/copy-of-20-200a-lithium-polymer-spim08hp-3-7v-8ah-flat-pouch-cells-lipo-batteries
2020-01-14T18:19:22 < bitmask> those are the new pouch cells id get
2020-01-14T18:19:48 < bitmask> they arent new cells, they are second hand dead cells, but new relative to the pack I have now
2020-01-14T18:21:22 < bitmask> or I can just do 2 rows of 6 18650s and be done with it
2020-01-14T18:21:28 < bitmask> 2 rows of 3*
2020-01-14T18:28:54 < bitmask> wow, I just laid out 6 18650s, its so small, not sure why ive been wasting my time
2020-01-14T18:29:04 < bitmask> im just gonna order some new ones
2020-01-14T18:34:05 < bitmask> i'll have to build a spot welder
2020-01-14T18:36:15 < bitmask> I could actually use my current pack or a MOT
2020-01-14T18:36:23 < bitmask> I think mot
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2020-01-14T22:46:52 < kakimir> lurence
2020-01-14T22:47:01 < Steffanx> whoa is this the real kakimir?
2020-01-14T22:47:13 < kakimir> a little bit
2020-01-14T22:47:44 < Steffanx> welcome back.
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2020-01-14T22:51:13 < Steffanx> a little.
2020-01-14T22:58:25 < jpa-> it's the real kakimir but that's not the real Steffanx 
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2020-01-14T23:02:21 < kakimir> :O
2020-01-14T23:02:26 < kakimir> fake steff
2020-01-14T23:02:33 < kakimir> this is crisis
2020-01-14T23:02:43 < kakimir> steff has been replaced by imposter alien
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2020-01-14T23:18:02 < kakimir> only way to know for sure is ask for movie
2020-01-14T23:18:46 < kakimir> if I really like it then it's not steff
2020-01-14T23:19:08 < Steffanx> pick one kakimir https://imgur.com/a/Zg0mrHN
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2020-01-14T23:46:17 < englishman> kakimir: syncthing is awesome
2020-01-14T23:46:25 < kakimir> tell me about it
2020-01-14T23:46:32 < kakimir> I mean tell me literally
2020-01-14T23:46:40 < englishman> you set it up
2020-01-14T23:46:42 < englishman> and it syncs
2020-01-14T23:47:57 < kakimir> how does it find each other in wild internets?
2020-01-14T23:48:29 < BrainDamage> there's an optional presence server
2020-01-14T23:49:00 < BrainDamage> and relay servers for those that can't port forward / nat traversal
2020-01-14T23:50:28 < englishman> kakimir: opensores magic
2020-01-14T23:50:45 < kakimir> just ping every address
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2020-01-14T23:56:32 < PaulFertser> Kinda unrelated but probably not so well known-trick: "ping6 ff02::1%wlan0" will get answers from all the devices on the ethernet segment, and you can then "ssh fe80::86c9:b2ff:fe53:606f%wlan0" or whatever you need. Works without DHCP, SLAAC etc, out of the box with any modern equipment (RFC6540).
--- Day changed Wed Jan 15 2020
2020-01-15T00:04:04 < karlp> then you get discover how many of your tools don't understand teh link qualifiers :)
2020-01-15T00:06:55 < karlp> whos' good for generic cheap boxes? like rectangular, like this generic hamond, but.. chheaper, and nastier... https://www.digikey.com/product-detail/en/hammond-manufacturing/1594CSBK/HM4033-ND/2359722
2020-01-15T00:07:10 < karlp> doesn't need real screws or anything, 
2020-01-15T00:07:34 < PaulFertser> karlp: the link qualifiers are parsed on libc level, not tools.
2020-01-15T00:08:30 < PaulFertser> karlp: btw, I saw recently ipv6 literals not working in gpsd and just fixed it.
2020-01-15T00:09:51 < PaulFertser> But it just couldn't handle any semicolons in hostname, after fixing that link qualifiers didn't need any handling.
2020-01-15T00:11:36 < BrainDamage> PaulFertser: you'd think so, except I can count on my hands so many tools that fail with qualifiers
2020-01-15T00:12:00 < karlp> PaulFertser: my experience is more in line with braindamage's
2020-01-15T00:12:38 < BrainDamage> especially when you account that there's more than just c programs existing
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2020-01-15T00:15:03 < PaulFertser> BrainDamage: due to parsers not treating % as an accepted character? The whole line just goes to getaddrinfo which does all the handling for qualifiers, services names instead of numeric ports etc.
2020-01-15T00:16:01 < BrainDamage> pretty sure a lot of languages just reinvent their thing
2020-01-15T00:16:09 < PaulFertser> karlp: and in any case my "life-hack" is primarily about telnetting or sshing to a device whos IP you do not know for whatever reason and which you connected directly to your station. Or something like that.
2020-01-15T00:16:33 < BrainDamage> fwiw, you can ping the broadcast address in ipv4 with the same result
2020-01-15T00:17:00 < PaulFertser> Not really, as IPv4 doesn't mandate LL addresses on interfaces.
2020-01-15T00:17:25 < BrainDamage> ping -b yourip.255.255
2020-01-15T00:17:41 < PaulFertser> And also IPv4 broadcast implies you need to know the subnet, right?
2020-01-15T00:18:18 < BrainDamage> you know it from the dhcp lease
2020-01-15T00:18:40 < BrainDamage> you can also check the arp cache
2020-01-15T00:18:43 < BrainDamage> using arp
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2020-01-15T00:18:59 < BrainDamage> or ip neigh
2020-01-15T00:19:04 < PaulFertser> idk, just tried it, my router doesn't seem to answer ipv4 broadcast.
2020-01-15T00:19:46 < PaulFertser> BrainDamage: that assumes you have something on the network. And that the host you want to connect to already has an address from somewhere. My ipv6 method doesn't require anything.
2020-01-15T00:21:32 < karlp> PaulFertser: don't get me wrong, I like your tip, it's a neat reminder,
2020-01-15T00:23:09 < PaulFertser> I wonder if there's really any reasonably modern application that's not using getaddrinfo. Not counting those reinventing the wheel with integrated DoH/DoT clients.
2020-01-15T00:25:16 < karlp> it has to _get_ to getaddrainfo....
2020-01-15T00:26:22 < kakimir> https://imgur.com/gallery/eJXh0af
2020-01-15T00:26:53 < kakimir> this time I survived from imgur in just over an hour
2020-01-15T00:27:00 < kakimir> thanks steff
2020-01-15T00:35:14 < qyx> karlp: plastrol, gainta, other poland brands
2020-01-15T00:35:18 < qyx> also fischer elektronik
2020-01-15T00:35:23 < qyx> browse tme.eu
2020-01-15T00:36:45 < qyx> *polish
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2020-01-15T00:41:25 < PaulFertser> BrainDamage: I've recently seen two windows hosts connected with a patchcord happily using IPv4LL to share a printer :)
2020-01-15T00:41:37 < PaulFertser> WinXP and W10
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2020-01-15T00:53:25 < karlp> qyx: thanks
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2020-01-15T00:59:29 < karlp> plastrol is jusjt electrical stuff, but gainta/elmag is perfect thanks
2020-01-15T01:01:23 < qyx> I am using gainta boxes, they are pretty good quality
2020-01-15T01:01:36 < qyx> even brass thread inserts & metric screws
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2020-01-15T01:10:29 < karlp> kradex has some good ones by the look of things.
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2020-01-15T01:12:40 < qyx> that too
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2020-01-15T02:12:54 < qyx> fuk kicad keeps changing the cursor position whenever it wants
2020-01-15T02:13:18 < qyx> > click ok to close a window
2020-01-15T02:13:31 < qyx> > cursor jumps half a meter left
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2020-01-15T02:13:56 < qyx> such an UI antifeature
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2020-01-15T02:15:14 < kakimir> kicad.
2020-01-15T02:15:31 < kakimir> got to love it
2020-01-15T02:15:41 < kakimir> null>
2020-01-15T02:16:33 < englishman> hmm
2020-01-15T02:16:51 < englishman> who wants a 5-core riscV and fpga
2020-01-15T02:16:54 < englishman> in one soc
2020-01-15T02:16:56 < englishman> I do
2020-01-15T02:18:56 < qyx> what for
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2020-01-15T02:20:43 < englishman> whatever
2020-01-15T02:21:16 < kakinull> of course
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2020-01-15T03:27:09 < jadew> ugh... rs's site is slow as a snail
2020-01-15T03:30:38 < jly> the dogs
2020-01-15T03:42:43 < jadew> also, aliexpress' verification shit is annoying me as well
2020-01-15T03:47:55 < jly> everything shhucks
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2020-01-15T05:01:47 < Laurenceb> dude what if, like, everything was like a tiny little string man, and it was just like, wiggling around and stuff. But the strings are made of smaller strings and it's like that book people reference all the time that of course I never read and 'it's strings all the way down!' Whoa!
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2020-01-15T05:08:17 < Laurenceb>  Stay tuned for more incoherent ranting!
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2020-01-15T05:23:55 < Laurenceb> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tzGR-Ma64zo
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2020-01-15T12:17:42 < Steffanx> Welcome jly 
2020-01-15T12:18:46 < jly> hi sir
2020-01-15T12:29:08 < Steffanx> What's your latest stm32 adventure mr jly?
2020-01-15T12:43:52 < Thorn> https://unpleasantfacts.com/some-2020-predictions
2020-01-15T12:51:26 < Cracki> "predictions" are often just perceived patterns, enhanced
2020-01-15T12:52:11 < Cracki> that splinternet stuff has been a reality since private home pages and "guest books" died
2020-01-15T12:55:04 < Cracki> > courted controversy
2020-01-15T12:57:21 < jadew> ebay and paypal are shit
2020-01-15T12:57:55 < jadew> which is surprising, considering how successful they are
2020-01-15T12:58:06 < jadew> the eBay invoices can't be printed correctly
2020-01-15T12:58:11 < jadew> they don't have a pdf download
2020-01-15T12:58:16 < jadew> they can send you a fucking HTML
2020-01-15T12:58:20 < jadew> gzipped
2020-01-15T12:58:39 < jadew> while paypal... it's the only banking system where you can't download statements instantly
2020-01-15T12:59:03 < jadew> I've been waiting for the past 5 minutes for it to make me a statement covering the past 3 months
2020-01-15T12:59:16 < jadew> (maybe more than 5)
2020-01-15T12:59:38 < jadew> it says something about what makes a business successful tho
2020-01-15T13:00:05 < jadew> spoiler alert: it's not the product
2020-01-15T13:00:56 < jadew> not to mention that their stupid statements are mixed currency
2020-01-15T13:01:20 < jadew> luckily I don't care about that, because someone else does my taxes, but it has to be annoying
2020-01-15T13:01:23 < Cracki> they can afford to be shit because they're monopolies
2020-01-15T13:02:48 < jadew> I hate bureaucracy
2020-01-15T13:03:11 < jadew> I'm glad I don't have to deal with submitting this shit myself
2020-01-15T13:03:27 < jadew> accountants must have a high suicide rate
2020-01-15T13:03:54 < jadew> yey, the report is ready
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2020-01-15T13:13:36 < Thorn> >It is easy to imagine apps that track different types of coded spending, letting people know how many dollars they must donate to the democrats to cancel out the financial support they gave to the GOP. This number could be displayed right next to the amount they need to spend on carbon credits to cancel out the impact of their air travel.
2020-01-15T13:15:59 < Thorn> spacewalk https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=84CRZYioFRs
2020-01-15T13:16:44 < Cracki> who *donates to* both parties? hello
2020-01-15T13:17:58 < Thorn> Cracki: everyone, by buying stuff from "red" and "blue" companies
2020-01-15T13:18:11 < Cracki> I mean literal campaign donations
2020-01-15T13:18:32 < Cracki> the only reason to donate to both parties is to control both
2020-01-15T13:19:13 < thardin> that's what the big boys do
2020-01-15T13:19:58 < Cracki> liberal use of expropriation without compensation could be good for a nation
2020-01-15T13:20:32 < jadew> what is GOP?
2020-01-15T13:20:44 < Cracki> not-lynx not in the sinks https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4BwWiJt6Wcc
2020-01-15T13:22:56 < jadew> afk
2020-01-15T13:23:54 < karlp> jadew: "Grand old party"
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2020-01-15T14:03:03 < kvlxoxo> Sup?
2020-01-15T14:05:05 < srk> sup
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2020-01-15T14:38:08 < dongs> zyp: the new dp and minidp are all microusb now, same pcb for both
2020-01-15T14:38:52 < dongs> any decent micro cable works OK. since almost nobody makes mini cables anymore i switched
2020-01-15T14:39:05 < dongs> http://abusemark.com/store/images/panel.jpg
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2020-01-15T14:53:47 < karlp> intertek up there with the quality service again.  "here's some feedback on outdated docs and designs, btw, I'm going to be leaving, someone else will continue"  "ok, here's some feedback, we'd addressed most of this in the correct docs"  "silence"  "what's going on?" "yeah, your person left, I've scheduled someone to take over your case starting in april"
2020-01-15T14:54:45 < karlp> "no, we've not suspended your project, it's still scheduled!"
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2020-01-15T14:56:41 < BrainDamage> ... in 3 months
2020-01-15T14:58:47 < karlp> yeah, precisely.
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2020-01-15T15:25:16 < c10ud> how do you fix uart+dma when debugging?
2020-01-15T15:25:35 < c10ud> ISR is set to uart_isr_ore and everything screws up
2020-01-15T15:25:54 < c10ud> I remember maybe on f4 it was enough to read the sr or something like that
2020-01-15T15:26:21 < c10ud> I'm on f7 though
2020-01-15T15:28:57 < karlp> look in the debug section and see if one of the bits turns offs or freezes things that sound appropriate for you
2020-01-15T15:30:15 < c10ud> alright
2020-01-15T15:30:47 < karlp> heh, even google doesn't use an EV ssl cert.
2020-01-15T15:30:56 < karlp> thanks for the paranoia firefox, 
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2020-01-15T15:53:24 < karlp> well glad to know there's no need to ever consider them again then :)
2020-01-15T15:53:52 < jadew> karlp, thanks for the acronym
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2020-01-15T16:33:18 < aandrew> dongs: Nice. You’re?
2020-01-15T16:33:43 < aandrew> Yours
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2020-01-15T18:02:36 < bitmask> hmm, women are soon going to start having babies in their 50s or 60s
2020-01-15T18:02:55 < bitmask> poor kids
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2020-01-15T18:06:06 < specing> yep
2020-01-15T18:10:48 < karlp> poor kids why?
2020-01-15T18:11:27 < BrainDamage> the higher the gen gap the more incomprehension and different needs between parents and child
2020-01-15T18:11:33 < jpa-> because of a few percent higher occurrence of complications, most of which will be screened out anyway
2020-01-15T18:12:00 < jpa-> ah, BrainDamage had a better point
2020-01-15T18:12:25 < karlp> BrainDamage: that seems perhaps overstated, there's also evidence of older parents having more time for the kids, and more money to look after the kids,
2020-01-15T18:12:31 < karlp> sure there's probably a plateau, but...
2020-01-15T18:12:50 < BrainDamage> all of this is fuzzy ofc, you win some, you lose some
2020-01-15T18:13:17 < BrainDamage> I'm not sure about more time though, retirement age keeps getting postponed here
2020-01-15T18:13:36 < specing> karlp: can you imagine 65 yo parents running around with their 10 yo children?
2020-01-15T18:13:40 < specing> I cannot
2020-01-15T18:14:04 < specing> and by running I mean literally running
2020-01-15T18:14:22 < jpa-> around here, they don't anyway; the 40 yo parents have nose in phone and so do the 10 yo children
2020-01-15T18:14:45 < jpa-> but easy to fix: go and make babies early!
2020-01-15T18:14:59 < karlp> specing: you seem to imply that that's required though..
2020-01-15T18:15:40 < karlp> absolutely, older parents do different things with their kids, can you imagine parents in wheel chairs running around with their 10 year old kids?! oh noes, those poor kids
2020-01-15T18:16:29 < BrainDamage> another indirect consequence is that their political needs will be less represented
2020-01-15T18:16:40 < specing> karlp: children tend to imitate their parents and if their parents do nothing but sit around and stare into phone, so will the children
2020-01-15T18:16:41 < zyp> dongs, makes sense, still more convenient with power and signal in same cable
2020-01-15T18:16:58 < karlp> specing: I still don't see what that has to do with age...
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2020-01-15T18:17:14 < karlp> BrainDamage: not more so? as the parents will die out while the children have more of their lift left?
2020-01-15T18:17:42 < specing> karlp: 65 year old parents statistically aren't as able-bodied as 25 year old parents
2020-01-15T18:17:50 < karlp> so?
2020-01-15T18:18:02 < specing> how will they run around with their children?
2020-01-15T18:18:02 < karlp> it's not a weight lifting competition
2020-01-15T18:18:09 < karlp> they don't need to. they never needed to.
2020-01-15T18:18:15 < specing> sure they did
2020-01-15T18:18:21 < specing> and sure they do
2020-01-15T18:18:28 < karlp> kids can run without parents running.
2020-01-15T18:18:45 < jpa-> it's a modern fancy to put so much responsibility on parents, "you have to do this, you have to do that, otherwise your children will be X"
2020-01-15T18:18:53 < specing> "karlp: children tend to imitate their parents and if their parents do nothing but sit around and stare into phone, so will the children"
2020-01-15T18:19:26 < karlp> again, that has nothign to do with age
2020-01-15T18:19:50 < specing> whatever, I have better things to do
2020-01-15T18:20:15 < karlp> and bitmask just looking at the grenade they dropped :)
2020-01-15T18:20:25 < jpa-> many 65-year-olds are more active than many 40-year-olds, even if running is not the primary form of activity
2020-01-15T18:20:41 < jpa-> for that matter, i don't remember my parents ever running with us - the dogs did, though
2020-01-15T18:20:41 < bitmask> hahaha wow
2020-01-15T18:20:48 < bitmask> didnt expect a response at all
2020-01-15T18:21:56 < bitmask> I just read an article about scientists using mouse skin cells to create stem cells and then make eggs out of them and successfully (although not a high yield rate) fertilized them with sperm cells and implanted them in the females
2020-01-15T18:22:29 < bitmask> when perfected, women can have fresh eggs whenever they want 
2020-01-15T18:23:00 < karlp> and then we're back to, "they're older, but doing it far more deliberately, why is that worse than unplanned youths?"
2020-01-15T18:23:10 < jpa-> seems like most people have stopped having children anyway - then it becomes just a philosophy question whether a child that never exists suffers not being run with
2020-01-15T18:23:24  * karlp laughs
2020-01-15T18:23:26 < bitmask> let me read what was said :P
2020-01-15T18:28:21 < bitmask> yea I said poor kids because of parents physically not being able to keep up as much, having less time because the kids will generally be younger when the parents die, and what BrainDamage said, the bigger the generational gap the less understanding/communication
2020-01-15T18:29:02 < karlp> I really feel that's overstated, if you actually talk to your kids
2020-01-15T18:29:15 < karlp> there's always a gap anyway, there's _meant_ to be a gap
2020-01-15T18:29:25 < bitmask> yea I guess thats true
2020-01-15T18:30:46 < inca[m]> mmm... nothing like the smell of DMA in the morning
2020-01-15T18:31:55 < emeb> jpa-: lol at not running w/ nonexistent kids.
2020-01-15T18:32:06  * emeb doesn't play with the kids he doesn't have.
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2020-01-15T18:40:48 < englishman> emeb: ever used actel/microsemi?
2020-01-15T18:41:11 < englishman> I found some in a competing product and they seem cheap, cool and include flash
2020-01-15T18:41:17 < englishman> plus they are getting into riscV
2020-01-15T18:41:56 < jpa-> i think the biggest thing those kids would miss out on is grandparents - but it's not like that's so critically important
2020-01-15T18:44:12 < Laurenceb> https://www.telegraph.co.uk/politics/2020/01/14/post-brexit-britain-will-like-nazi-germany-claims-lib-dem-peer/
2020-01-15T18:44:14 < Laurenceb> SOON
2020-01-15T18:46:13 < bitmask> were termed "Guevedoces" by their local community, which means "penis at twelve"
2020-01-15T18:47:27 < karlp> jpa-: indeed, but that's a ahzard with kids at late 30s 40s already.
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2020-01-15T19:06:38 < emeb> englishman: Never used those. Looked at them a few times but didn't take the leap.
2020-01-15T19:09:35 < englishman> ok, cool
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2020-01-15T19:36:19 < doomba> hey. anybody in here an expert at tracking down obscure chinesium ICs?
2020-01-15T19:37:12 < effractur> did you try bing?
2020-01-15T19:37:14 < doomba> i'm looking for info on HLK H2168. it's a capacitive touch pad/screen IC in a QFN40 package.
2020-01-15T19:37:24 < doomba> the thing is very elusive :(
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2020-01-15T19:44:01 < mawk> my hosting provider closed my server
2020-01-15T19:44:04 < mawk> and they won't tell me why
2020-01-15T19:44:08 < mawk> it's the police again I'm sure
2020-01-15T19:44:14 < doomba> it's because you're white
2020-01-15T19:44:21 < doomba> and they's racis
2020-01-15T19:46:00 < mawk> yeah
2020-01-15T19:46:12 < mawk> they are "investigating" the "technical issue"
2020-01-15T19:46:23 < mawk> aka analyzing the RAM dump and the HDD
2020-01-15T19:46:35 < mawk> everything sensitive is encrypted, they won't find a thing
2020-01-15T19:47:46 < BrainDamage> is this the child porn thing still?
2020-01-15T19:49:38 < mawk> probably
2020-01-15T19:49:40 < mawk> they won't tell
2020-01-15T19:57:39 < Cracki> I'm glad they don't burn witches anymore, merely "investigate"
2020-01-15T19:58:33 < Cracki> mebbeh find a lawyer to write them a nasty letter on your behalf demanding to know why they breach contract
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2020-01-15T20:16:56 < englishman> dongs https://www.monoprice.com/product?p_id=40866
2020-01-15T20:17:59 < englishman> HDMI tho wtf
2020-01-15T20:22:33 < englishman> who here is going to ISQED
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2020-01-15T20:24:33 < mawk> "Khalid" the "Customer success specialist" (in english in the text) tells me that they have "no information on what's going on"
2020-01-15T20:25:46 < mawk> bullshit
2020-01-15T20:25:59 < mawk> they are going through the 2TiB of data
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2020-01-15T20:29:01 < Cracki> yeah, totally scripted. they have no information they are willing to give you
2020-01-15T20:29:24 < Cracki> namedrop some competitors
2020-01-15T20:29:38 < mawk> yeah
2020-01-15T20:29:44 < Cracki> also refund for the offtime days
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2020-01-15T20:30:09 < Cracki> plus whatever lost ad revenue :>
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2020-01-15T20:40:42 < mawk> yeah I hope
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2020-01-15T20:43:10 < qyx> til: jlcpcb price for unusual PCB sizes is unusually low
2020-01-15T20:43:56 < qyx> 5pcs of 300x10mm "standard" 2L is still under 5€
2020-01-15T20:46:02 < Cracki> uhhh thx for that info, might order some of that
2020-01-15T20:46:59 < Cracki> shipping: footlong special
2020-01-15T20:49:15 < Cracki> $5 footlong jesus https://pbs.twimg.com/profile_images/2643274621/555af5af461e8505b4c06c5b2dd0f4ef_400x400.png
2020-01-15T20:49:49 < bvernoux> qyx, Yes I confirm and the quality for the price is very good
2020-01-15T20:50:19 < bvernoux> qyx, and so fast when compared to oshpark ...
2020-01-15T20:50:40 < bvernoux> qyx, I'm testing the SMT assembly too I'm waiting some HydraBus boards
2020-01-15T20:51:05 < bvernoux> the nice things is they have lot of STM32 in stock and cheaper than Mouser/DigiKey ...
2020-01-15T21:27:35 < mawk> Cracki: I conceived my image host precisely with this situation in mind
2020-01-15T21:27:40 < mawk> police seizing servers and analyzing disks
2020-01-15T21:27:52 < mawk> so I'm totally confident
2020-01-15T21:27:57 < mawk> I just want my data back
2020-01-15T21:28:05 < mawk> it's all encrypted
2020-01-15T21:28:10 < Cracki> they should be discouraged from doing this again
2020-01-15T21:28:14 < Cracki> it is annoying
2020-01-15T21:28:21 < mawk> yeah
2020-01-15T21:29:51 < Cracki> ... and they tried making you responsible for holding encrypted data you yourself can't decrypt?
2020-01-15T21:29:52 < Steffanx> lol mawk
2020-01-15T21:30:14 < Cracki> one day in court: your honor would you hold this piece of paper for me
2020-01-15T21:30:24 < Cracki> *gibberish on paper*
2020-01-15T21:30:25 < mawk> with french law yes
2020-01-15T21:30:32 < mawk> if I don't decrypt it's like 2 years prison and 40k€ fine
2020-01-15T21:30:35 < Steffanx> burn your french passport.
2020-01-15T21:30:44 < mawk> but less than 2 years means no prison time, in france
2020-01-15T21:30:50 < mawk> it's still annoying to have a criminal record
2020-01-15T21:30:52 < Cracki> *produce overlay transparency that reveals the pattern*
2020-01-15T21:31:09 < mawk> yeah
2020-01-15T21:32:07 < mawk> yeah it's dumb
2020-01-15T21:32:14 < mawk> I think they conceived the law before computers
2020-01-15T21:32:34 < mawk> it doesn't say encryption but something like "dissimulation"
2020-01-15T21:32:46 < Steffanx> Arent there many of those old laws in france?
2020-01-15T21:32:53 < mawk> not that I know of
2020-01-15T21:32:57 < mawk> the civilian code is pretty recent
2020-01-15T21:32:58 < mawk> 1800ish
2020-01-15T21:33:05 < mawk> it's not like england with the shitton of commoner laws from middle ages
2020-01-15T21:33:57 < mawk> Napoleon did the civilian code
2020-01-15T21:34:09 < mawk> but france always had a very inflationnary legal practice
2020-01-15T21:34:16 < mawk> thousands and thousands of laws
2020-01-15T21:34:28 < mawk> they even regulate the size and shape and color of metal poles on sidewalks
2020-01-15T21:34:41 < mawk> and the size and color of clams you can sell on open air markets
2020-01-15T21:34:45 < mawk> and everything else
2020-01-15T21:37:36 < mawk> it was my male server, my dns server (recursive and authoritative), my vpn server
2020-01-15T21:37:38 < mawk> I'm naked !
2020-01-15T21:37:44 < mawk> y'all can see my wonderful ziggo IP now
2020-01-15T21:37:58 < mawk> mail* lol not male
2020-01-15T21:38:01 < Cracki> >male server
2020-01-15T21:38:09 < mawk> it's my secret gay side talking
2020-01-15T21:39:39 < Steffanx> secret?
2020-01-15T21:39:53 < mawk> :(
2020-01-15T21:40:25 < Steffanx> It was your side facing the public you just said.
2020-01-15T21:44:14 < Cracki> homocrypto
2020-01-15T21:44:28 < mawk> AES-CTR crypto
2020-01-15T21:44:57 < Cracki> a bolshevik once called me a crypto-something. they love their words.
2020-01-15T21:45:11 < mawk> yes
2020-01-15T21:45:17 < mawk> I've been called cryptofascist too
2020-01-15T21:45:30 < Cracki> I'm liek LMAO BOTTOM TEXT
2020-01-15T21:46:32 < Cracki> repressed kinks. they literally invite you to "drop the mask" and stomp on their neck
2020-01-15T21:46:38 < mawk> yes
2020-01-15T21:46:41 < mawk> I gave you a link once no ?
2020-01-15T21:46:53 < mawk> someone fantisizing about having a right wing SM play or something
2020-01-15T21:47:40 < Cracki> many such cases
2020-01-15T21:47:46 < bitmask> haha oh google translate has won yet again: This is a coward, absolutely bag true
2020-01-15T21:47:57 < bitmask> thank you aliexpress
2020-01-15T21:48:05 < mawk> c'est un couard, absolument des tas de vrais
2020-01-15T21:48:06 < Cracki> bag = balls?
2020-01-15T21:50:12 < mawk> let's write a script to parse the hosting provider client service page
2020-01-15T21:50:15 < mawk> to see when they respond
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2020-01-15T22:05:24 < srk> send em some xss
2020-01-15T22:07:46 < mawk> I did KDE notifications
2020-01-15T22:07:49 < mawk> it's surprisingly easy
2020-01-15T22:07:51 < mawk> using D-Bus
2020-01-15T22:07:59 < mawk> then aiohttp for the network part
2020-01-15T22:10:07 < srk> I notify with echo -e '\a' 
2020-01-15T22:10:16 < mawk> yes that makes a kde notification too
2020-01-15T22:10:24 < mawk> but it doesn't write anything
2020-01-15T22:10:31 < srk> it highlights the workspace it comes from
2020-01-15T22:10:46 < srk> (xmonad)
2020-01-15T22:11:25 < srk> gdb/mi fun http://ix.io/27ur
2020-01-15T22:18:09 < mawk> gdbus call --session --dest org.freedesktop.Notifications --object-path /org/freedesktop/Notifications --method org.freedesktop.Notifications.Notify -- '' 0 '' 'subject' 'body' [] {} -1
2020-01-15T22:18:13 < mawk> long to type
2020-01-15T22:18:18 < mawk> just for you srk 
2020-01-15T22:18:24 < mawk> works under both gnome and kde
2020-01-15T22:18:29 < mawk> so, everywhere normally
2020-01-15T22:18:34 < mawk> it's a standard notifications interface
2020-01-15T22:19:52 < srk> last time I've did gnome was like 8y ago
2020-01-15T22:20:00 < srk> g3 is FUBAR
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2020-01-15T22:31:07  * qyx trying gdbus
2020-01-15T22:31:49 < qyx> mawk: works under xfce too
2020-01-15T22:31:50 < qyx> \oú
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2020-01-15T22:33:57 < mawk> good !
2020-01-15T22:37:02 < englishman> emeb: the smartfusion2 devboard is only $33
2020-01-15T22:37:18 < englishman> and has 166mHz cortex-m3
2020-01-15T22:37:20 < englishman> wtf
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2020-01-15T22:38:26 < specing> expensive
2020-01-15T22:39:04 < karlp> no.
2020-01-15T22:41:59 < karlp> pcie x4, 10g ethernet, fancy
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2020-01-15T22:43:50 < qyx> pcie pcie!
2020-01-15T22:44:43 < karlp> super expensive gigabit phy on that board :)
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2020-01-15T22:46:37 < specing> what
2020-01-15T22:46:44 < specing> on a $33 board?
2020-01-15T22:46:48 < specing> linkylinkylinky
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2020-01-15T22:49:24 < englishman> m2s010-mkr-kit on digikey
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2020-01-15T22:53:12 < specing> karlp: where do you see 10g ethernet and pci-x4?
2020-01-15T22:53:23 < specing> says 1 gbit and no pci-e
2020-01-15T22:53:39 < karlp> in the smartfusion2 specs
2020-01-15T22:53:47 < karlp> not the dev board
2020-01-15T22:54:17 -!- catphish [~catphish@unaffiliated/catphish] has joined ##stm32
2020-01-15T22:55:44 < specing> "meh"
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2020-01-15T23:07:56 < Steffanx> even a esp32 footprint. YEAH
2020-01-15T23:09:36 < Steffanx> Too much ESP related crap on that board. Do you really want us to go maker?
2020-01-15T23:13:16 < veverak> YES
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2020-01-15T23:15:19 < emeb> englishman: interesting. will need to look at that...
2020-01-15T23:17:13 < emeb> gah! all the smartfusion 2 boards I see on teh mouser are $400-$1000
2020-01-15T23:18:25 < englishman> hehe
2020-01-15T23:18:37 < englishman> yes it is clearly subsidized by digikey
2020-01-15T23:18:46 < englishman> $mchp to $5k
2020-01-15T23:19:01 < englishman> riscV everything
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2020-01-15T23:20:26 < kakiboss> big pee pee
2020-01-15T23:20:49 < Steffanx> i think you're more a mir than a boss, sir.
2020-01-15T23:21:19 < kakiboss> fake till you break
2020-01-15T23:21:43 < kakiboss> *make
2020-01-15T23:21:45 < Steffanx> aha
2020-01-15T23:21:54 < kakiboss> totally mir steff
2020-01-15T23:25:47 < Steffanx> is kakiboss alright? Do you know?
2020-01-15T23:26:03 < kakiboss> don't tell anyone I'm not boss
2020-01-15T23:26:38 < kakiboss> ofc not steff
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2020-01-15T23:35:03 < kakiboss> innovation please
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2020-01-15T23:42:00 < Cracki> wat r some good phrases to let a customer know he should be offering more money for contract work I've done repeatedly for him
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2020-01-15T23:42:49 < catphish> "my rates have increased to x"
2020-01-15T23:43:06 < Cracki> he snoozed, event is in 2 weeks and red tape takes 2 weeks for his own bureaucrats to digest
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2020-01-15T23:43:22 < Cracki> I'll try that :P
2020-01-15T23:44:23 < catphish> i always like "my rates have increased to x+10 but as a regular customer i'm able to do x for you"
2020-01-15T23:44:47 < Cracki> they're always sticking the tip in. usually bill time at 100% attention. they didn't want me doing video, just press Record on the audio. it still seems as if I should be there the whole time... yet they value that less. maybe I should just fuck off during the event
2020-01-15T23:45:01 < Cracki> I like your thinking
2020-01-15T23:46:27 -!- kakiboss [b05d598d@176-93-89-141.bb.dnainternet.fi] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
2020-01-15T23:47:03 < Laurenceb> https://img.youtube.com/vi/d24cB3VoYhQ/0.jpg
2020-01-15T23:49:03 < Cracki> dude has the audacity to ask for completion "as soon as possible"
2020-01-15T23:49:24 < Cracki> well fuck you, possible may just be whenever my depression allows it
2020-01-15T23:49:47 < catphish> lol
2020-01-15T23:49:55 < Cracki> if he had said within x hours, I could have worked with that
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2020-01-15T23:50:31 < Cracki> I should offer him an SLA with deadlines and probabilities
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2020-01-15T23:50:37 < catphish> anyone ready to gift me a DS1054Z yet?
2020-01-15T23:50:54 < Cracki> find rich mommy
2020-01-15T23:51:05 < Cracki> there are those types
2020-01-15T23:51:06 < specing> catphish: DS1054z is outdated, get sds1104x-e
2020-01-15T23:51:26 < Cracki> is that riglolable to double its bw too?
2020-01-15T23:51:34 < specing> yes
2020-01-15T23:51:45 < Cracki> oh it's a soylent
2020-01-15T23:52:03 < Cracki> looks cleaner than rigol
2020-01-15T23:52:05 < specing> soylent white
2020-01-15T23:52:08 < specing> yeah
2020-01-15T23:52:27 < specing> Runs Linux on a zynq FPGA
2020-01-15T23:52:30 < Cracki> can you squeeze the knob heads on that thing?
2020-01-15T23:52:36 < specing> no idea
2020-01-15T23:52:44 < Cracki> how many homebrews are there already
2020-01-15T23:52:53 < Cracki> I would imagine people opening that like a tin can
2020-01-15T23:53:10 < Cracki> cute, rainbow phosphorus
2020-01-15T23:54:07 < specing> Cracki: its a bit expensive, I failed to find anyone on freenode having it
2020-01-15T23:54:19 < specing> I'm interested to know which zynq it has
2020-01-15T23:54:19 < Cracki> our beverages delivery guy today had some rainbowish gay looking thing on his lockscreen and then he joked about printers being worse than women :D
2020-01-15T23:54:30 < Steffanx> and hack the sds1104x to be a sds1204x-e
2020-01-15T23:54:37 < Steffanx> +-e
2020-01-15T23:54:45 < Steffanx> it just runs lunix.
2020-01-15T23:54:45 < catphish> specing: i know nothing about SIGLENT
2020-01-15T23:55:02 < catphish> looks like a similar device
2020-01-15T23:55:13 < Steffanx> i did that to my lunix running sds1104x-e
2020-01-15T23:55:16 < Cracki> looks less chinese
2020-01-15T23:55:28 < specing> Steffanx: it is more than twice better for only 30% more $$
2020-01-15T23:55:46 < catphish> how is it twice better?
2020-01-15T23:55:52 < catphish> i see it's 100MHz
2020-01-15T23:55:55 < specing> comes with decoders stock (CAN+LIN too), usable FFT, bode plots...
2020-01-15T23:55:57 < Cracki> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gUz3KYp_5Tc
2020-01-15T23:56:05 < specing> catphish: its a 200MHz scope
2020-01-15T23:56:22 < catphish> but really, the UX is going to be more important than the bandwidth
2020-01-15T23:56:36 < Cracki> wat 500 bucks for 200 mhz, yeah that's acceptable :P
2020-01-15T23:56:46 < Steffanx> sds1104x-e is 100MHz... but hackable to 200MHz. (Which is the 1204..)
2020-01-15T23:56:49 < catphish> doesn't the rigol have all the decoders?
2020-01-15T23:56:51 < specing> Cracki: 4*200Mhz
2020-01-15T23:57:01 < specing> Its got two 1 Gsps ADCs inside
2020-01-15T23:57:08 < catphish> 4 x 200MHz is impressive though
2020-01-15T23:57:10 < specing> catphish: no, only uart,spi,i2c
2020-01-15T23:57:34 < Cracki> ye 4ch is nice
2020-01-15T23:57:36 < catphish> well it looks nice
2020-01-15T23:57:39 < catphish> want to buy me one?
2020-01-15T23:57:49 < specing> no, saving for mine :D
2020-01-15T23:57:54 < catphish> certainly looks like the UI is at least as good
2020-01-15T23:58:08 < Steffanx> im still not sure why specing thinks the 1104 is 100MHz.
2020-01-15T23:58:13 < catphish> 454.80 english dollars
2020-01-15T23:58:15 < Steffanx> *200
2020-01-15T23:58:17 < Cracki> def looks more ordered than the rigol dave has on his desk for comparison
2020-01-15T23:58:19 < Steffanx> not 100, lol.
2020-01-15T23:58:30 < specing> Steffanx: EEVBlog dave says so
2020-01-15T23:58:37 < Steffanx> he must have hacked it.
2020-01-15T23:58:44 < Cracki> https://www.amazon.com/Siglent-SDS1104X-oscilloscope-Channels-Standard/dp/B07PV2MQVT
2020-01-15T23:58:51 < specing> Steffanx: nah, he just looked at the frontend
2020-01-15T23:58:54 < catphish> it's advertised as 100, but these things often seem to be software upgradeable
2020-01-15T23:59:12 < Steffanx> oh, so hacked it is then specing :P
2020-01-15T23:59:14 < catphish> but i've never quite understood how that's possible
2020-01-15T23:59:29 < Steffanx> "hacked". Its not more than removing some software filter.
2020-01-15T23:59:30 < specing> HACK  : https://www.mitsake.net/2018/11/unlocking-siglent-sds-1104x-e/
2020-01-15T23:59:48 < Cracki> either binning because parts vary, or it's plain cheaper to make one model and then lock it down for market segmentation
2020-01-15T23:59:57 < catphish> but is the software filter really limiting it?
--- Day changed Thu Jan 16 2020
2020-01-16T00:00:09 < Cracki> they make a profit no matter which level they sell
2020-01-16T00:00:18 < catphish> maye in some cases it is, but i'd worry about the binning, like overclocking
2020-01-16T00:00:20 < Cracki> but they sell to the "poorer" customers too, thus more money
2020-01-16T00:00:45 < Cracki> if it's properly unlockable via bought upgrade, it won't be binned
2020-01-16T00:00:48 < specing> Is the ds1054 unlockable by license?
2020-01-16T00:00:53 < catphish> but since it's a 1GSPS ADC, you'd expect it to be somewhat possible
2020-01-16T00:01:23 < catphish> in any case, 100MHz is plenty for me, and twice as good as the rigol
2020-01-16T00:01:29 < Cracki> ds1054 is unlockable by license
2020-01-16T00:01:44 < specing> Cracki: interesting
2020-01-16T00:01:46 < Cracki> so they literally sell you hw that's capable.
2020-01-16T00:01:59 < catphish> that's been proven to be true with the rigol
2020-01-16T00:02:04 < Cracki> but they'd rather make a buck selling to the 50 mhz crowd IN ADDITION to the 100 mhz crowd
2020-01-16T00:02:06 < catphish> but no idea about the siglent
2020-01-16T00:02:20 < Cracki> exactly
2020-01-16T00:02:24 < catphish> in any case, 100MHz is more than enough for me
2020-01-16T00:02:38 < englishman> well I am going to ISQED 2020
2020-01-16T00:02:41 < catphish> but i'm always cautious of spending 455 english dollars
2020-01-16T00:02:49 < Cracki> https://www.mitsake.net/2018/11/unlocking-siglent-sds-1104x-e/
2020-01-16T00:02:54 < Steffanx> the only downside might be the probles actually being made for 100MHz and not 200
2020-01-16T00:03:06 < Steffanx> *probes
2020-01-16T00:03:52 < Cracki> lol according to that, it is exactly just software-limited
2020-01-16T00:03:54 < Steffanx> Since its labeled with 100MHz
2020-01-16T00:03:58 < specing> Steffanx: someone compared those and found them about the same, perf wise
2020-01-16T00:03:59 < Cracki> 200 mhz is a license key away
2020-01-16T00:04:49 < Steffanx> i swear i just removed a file from my 1104, but that might also have been the way to "hack" the function generator they also sell. To make it 120MHz instead of 40
2020-01-16T00:05:05 < specing> Steffanx: you have a 1104?
2020-01-16T00:05:22 < specing> Steffanx: can you check which Zynq is inside?
2020-01-16T00:05:49 < specing> must be 7020 or better
2020-01-16T00:05:58 < specing> sds1202x-e has the 7020
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2020-01-16T00:09:18 < Cracki> 1104 pics https://forums.xilinx.com/t5/Xcell-Daily-Blog-Archived/EEVBlog-s-teardown-of-499-Siglent-1104X-E-DSO-4-channels/ba-p/811320
2020-01-16T00:09:31 < catphish> well i think i'd enjoy an 1104
2020-01-16T00:09:37 < catphish> ^ rich people take note
2020-01-16T00:10:44 < Cracki> "I'm not gay but 200 MHz is 200 MHz"
2020-01-16T00:10:51 < specing> kek
2020-01-16T00:11:14 < catphish> it doesn't say that
2020-01-16T00:11:36 < catphish> but i'm happy to work for it if that's what you mean ;)
2020-01-16T00:11:59 < Cracki> it's a tshirt https://m.media-amazon.com/images/I/A1XSsTFkLlL._CLa%7C2140,2000%7C51GKhTDT6hL.png%7C0,0,2140,2000+0.0,0.0,2140.0,2000.0.png
2020-01-16T00:12:11 < catphish> fair enough
2020-01-16T00:12:27 < catphish> i had a feeling that was the messag
2020-01-16T00:12:37 < Cracki> :> do a gofundme
2020-01-16T00:12:53 < Cracki> or whatever the kids do these days
2020-01-16T00:13:54 < catphish> it's kind of a hard gofundme sell
2020-01-16T00:14:30 < catphish> "i don't *really* need this, but i kinda want it, i could just buy it, but i'm not that certain i'll really get enough use out of it to justify the cost"
2020-01-16T00:14:59 < englishman> you need a scope tho
2020-01-16T00:15:21 < catphish> next time i have a project that actually needs a scope, i will just buy one :)
2020-01-16T00:15:59 < catphish> last time i needed one, my annoyingly rich parents just lent me one, so i never bought one, life is hard
2020-01-16T00:16:28 < Cracki> use parents to bootstrap, that's their purpose
2020-01-16T00:17:35 < catphish> in all seriousness, my step-dad is an electronics engineer an has a 100MHz DSO, and is happy to lend it to me, but i still feel like i should own one, so hopefully next time i need one i'll have some spare cash and treat myself
2020-01-16T00:19:07 < qyx> when I was at uni I bough a 30MHz Owon, I still use it at home
2020-01-16T00:19:17 < qyx> it was under 250€
2020-01-16T00:19:53 < zyp> IIRC I were ordering a 25 MHz siglent, and the store were out so they offered me a 40 MHz rigol instead for the same price
2020-01-16T00:20:05 < zyp> now it's a 100 MHz rigol
2020-01-16T00:20:16 < specing> zyp: good luck
2020-01-16T00:20:25 < zyp> good luck what?
2020-01-16T00:20:30 < zyp> this was in 2008 :)
2020-01-16T00:20:31 < specing> you had good luck
2020-01-16T00:21:15 < specing> catphish: yeah, and then you can lend him your 200 MHz, lol
2020-01-16T00:21:23 < catphish> :)
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2020-01-16T01:18:20 < Laurenceb> brexit is coming
2020-01-16T01:21:18 < catphish> Laurenceb: shut up i've still got 2 weeks
2020-01-16T01:21:38 < Laurenceb> deportation tiem
2020-01-16T01:21:58 < catphish> lets hope not :)
2020-01-16T01:27:17 < specing> T-15 days
2020-01-16T01:36:13 < catphish> i make it 16
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2020-01-16T01:37:30 < qyx> do we have a RTOS ready LoRaWAN stack for STM32?
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2020-01-16T01:37:53 < qyx> Laurenceb: ^
2020-01-16T01:37:56 < qyx> 00:37 < qyx> do we have a RTOS ready LoRaWAN stack for STM32?                                                     │···························································································································
2020-01-16T01:38:05 < qyx> fuk byobu
2020-01-16T01:38:11 < Laurenceb> I dunno
2020-01-16T01:38:29 < qyx> maybe englishman knows, he has a super secret lora business
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2020-01-16T02:12:14 < englishman> qyx: lol
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2020-01-16T02:21:44 < kakiboss> new mailbag
2020-01-16T02:22:03 < kakiboss> time to null and watch>
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2020-01-16T02:26:35 < kakinull> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PJs1Ax6M9Qs mailbag
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2020-01-16T02:56:06 < kakinull> millenials
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2020-01-16T03:43:04 < Thorn> T - 2d 11h https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ARIZnaMXTEU crew dragon inflight abort test
2020-01-16T03:55:55 < kakinull> did you say 2d?
2020-01-16T03:56:25 < kakinull> better tune in
2020-01-16T03:56:32 < jadew> lol
2020-01-16T04:00:49 < jadew> https://fossbytes.com/european-union-wants-smartphones-standard-charging-port/
2020-01-16T04:02:13 < Cracki> usb charging isn't standard enough?
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2020-01-16T04:02:26 < Cracki> trying to do a china, are we
2020-01-16T04:02:49 < jadew> I hate EU legislation
2020-01-16T04:03:01 < jadew> it's so fucking broken
2020-01-16T04:03:10 < Cracki> neurosis of the french paired with the execution of the germans
2020-01-16T04:03:24 < jadew> why would they care about this sort of shit?
2020-01-16T04:03:30 < jadew> the market will sort itself out
2020-01-16T04:03:48 < Cracki> inb4 forcing HD-DVD to be the standard optical medium
2020-01-16T04:04:13 < jadew> all the environmental crap laws have serious side effects
2020-01-16T04:04:22 < jadew> and are preventing exactly jack shit
2020-01-16T04:04:36 < Cracki> the whole raison d'etre of the EU is to keep itself alive. they do that by inventing rules they can enforce.
2020-01-16T04:05:33 < Cracki> if they have to, they better pick usb c
2020-01-16T04:05:40 < jadew> they shouldn't
2020-01-16T04:05:46 < Cracki> why not
2020-01-16T04:05:52 < jadew> if they do, we'll be stuck with it past its due time
2020-01-16T04:05:58 < Cracki> eh
2020-01-16T04:06:04 < jadew> there's going to be a time when USB-
2020-01-16T04:06:07 < jadew> C
2020-01-16T04:06:07 < Cracki> the eu is past its due time
2020-01-16T04:06:08 < jadew> is going to be shit
2020-01-16T04:06:16 < Cracki> so then you get the guillotine
2020-01-16T04:06:22 < jadew> and we won't be able to switch to the next thing because of stupid laws
2020-01-16T04:06:29 < Cracki> abolish laws by beheading the law makers
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2020-01-16T04:06:58 < jadew> there'd be a lot of beheading tho...
2020-01-16T04:07:07 < Cracki> eh, not more than a few thousand
2020-01-16T04:07:21 < Cracki> don't do anything pinochet wouldn't do!
2020-01-16T04:07:50 < jadew> my biggest gripe with EU regulation is with the WEEE law and the stupid cookie shit
2020-01-16T04:07:54 < Cracki> heads held high, and suddenly soccer match
2020-01-16T04:08:09 < Cracki> cookie shit is pissing me off constantly
2020-01-16T04:08:13 < jadew> if they fixed that, I would be more lenient with the other stuff too
2020-01-16T04:08:28 < Cracki> these dumb fucks ignored all the warnings about users "clicking away" stuff
2020-01-16T04:08:32 < jadew> actually, I'm pissed off about the import thing too
2020-01-16T04:08:58 < jadew> Cracki, yeah, nobody is reading that shit anymore
2020-01-16T04:09:01 < Cracki> heard of alt-right? the new thing: ctrl-left
2020-01-16T04:09:06 < jadew> it was just a waste of time
2020-01-16T04:09:09 < jadew> and money
2020-01-16T04:09:34 < Cracki> everyone involved in pushing that cookie shit *should* face grave and final consequences
2020-01-16T04:09:45 < jadew> I agree
2020-01-16T04:09:58 < jadew> they're obviously unfit to be involved in law making
2020-01-16T04:10:00 < Cracki> prevent them from continuing their family line, at least
2020-01-16T04:10:14 < jadew> heh
2020-01-16T04:10:18 < Cracki> incarcerate their closest associates
2020-01-16T04:10:37 < Cracki> srsly gulags were an excellent idea, just badly executed
2020-01-16T04:10:45 < Cracki> just one more try
2020-01-16T04:11:28 < Cracki> this only triggers those who would *themselves* have been thrown in one by the kommissars
2020-01-16T04:12:08 < Cracki> so I'm switching cellular providers and porting my number.
2020-01-16T04:12:43 < Cracki> old provider set the porting date to SIXTEEN weeks in the future
2020-01-16T04:12:50 < Cracki> and moved the end date of the contract by 5 days
2020-01-16T04:13:32 < jadew> what do you mean? they have a say in it?
2020-01-16T04:13:50 < jadew> in here it takes two days to port a number and the original network doesn't have a say in it
2020-01-16T04:14:02 < jadew> you just go to the new provider with your last invoice (from the old one)
2020-01-16T04:14:06 < jadew> and they take care of it
2020-01-16T04:14:56 < Cracki> no clue what's going on. perhaps it was a good idea to flee from the old one.
2020-01-16T04:15:12 < Cracki> they called me every day of the week from some random number, but nobody answered
2020-01-16T04:15:50 < Cracki> since my electricity provider went bankrupt, shit like that gives me the creeps
2020-01-16T04:16:38 < Cracki> same with review bombing. you can tell an electricity provider is about to die and fuck everyone over when they have 10x the reviews of the runner-up
2020-01-16T04:17:04 < Cracki> they need to drown out the bad reviews with 5-star empty ones
2020-01-16T04:17:46 < jadew> I think I linked this before: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y5z7cYSbsFU
2020-01-16T04:17:52 < Cracki> that scam contractor who fucked the rossmann over also operated on referrals. customers get 5% off if they bring him the next contract... ponzi scheme
2020-01-16T04:17:59 < Cracki> aka redistribution of wealth
2020-01-16T04:18:05 < jadew> I wish I could stream music to a music player
2020-01-16T04:18:09 < jadew> like you cast to tv
2020-01-16T04:18:21 < Cracki> I think you can
2020-01-16T04:18:37 < Cracki> no, not avahi
2020-01-16T04:18:41 < jadew> I'm not familiar with the rossman thing
2020-01-16T04:18:44 < Cracki> no, not pulseaudio
2020-01-16T04:19:06 < Cracki> nyc dude, 13 employees, repairs macbooks, has a store of ~60 sq m
2020-01-16T04:19:13 < jadew> I know him
2020-01-16T04:19:20 < jadew> but I don't know the contractor story
2020-01-16T04:19:25 < jadew> I don't like the guy too much
2020-01-16T04:19:55 < jadew> he thinks he's the best human in the world, but has very low res understanding of electronics in general
2020-01-16T04:19:58 < Cracki> basically made invoices, claimed progress that wasnt, cut corners everywhere
2020-01-16T04:20:36 < Cracki> that contractor fucked over a rich couple for over a million bucks too. they didn't inspect the work site regularly (or at all), he sent them random pics from the internet and said that's the progress
2020-01-16T04:20:53 < Cracki> the rossmann doesn't need much understanding really
2020-01-16T04:20:59 < Cracki> he's basically a dentist
2020-01-16T04:21:07 < Cracki> drill, fill, give tooth brush
2020-01-16T04:21:14 < jadew> yeah, pretty much
2020-01-16T04:21:42 < Cracki> and imho he does not have an overly high opinion of himself
2020-01-16T04:21:56 < Cracki> he strikes me as quite level headed
2020-01-16T04:22:23 < jadew> don't know, most of his videos are in the line of me me me me
2020-01-16T04:22:50 < Cracki> most of his videos are "today we've got some macbook with x damage let's see if we can fix it"
2020-01-16T04:23:14 < jadew> he's blowing his own trumpet so to speak (not sure if this makes sense in english)
2020-01-16T04:23:27 < Cracki> that's his job
2020-01-16T04:23:30 < Cracki> you should do that too
2020-01-16T04:23:41 < Cracki> yt is self-promotion
2020-01-16T04:23:49 < jadew> I have a tendency to brag too, but I try to keep it under control
2020-01-16T04:23:50 < Cracki> he shows that he knows his stuff
2020-01-16T04:23:58 < jadew> I don't think it's a charming quality
2020-01-16T04:23:59 < Cracki> you suck at it :P
2020-01-16T04:24:04 < jadew> haha
2020-01-16T04:24:06 < Cracki> get better
2020-01-16T04:24:31 < Cracki> theres a diff between honest self-presentation and embellishing
2020-01-16T04:24:48 < jadew> I'm gonna make a new video this week for my new product
2020-01-16T04:24:54 < jadew> I don't know how not to sound boring
2020-01-16T04:25:20 < Cracki> how many selfies do kids take before they keep one?
2020-01-16T04:25:27 < Cracki> same with videos, texts, anything
2020-01-16T04:25:37 < Cracki> do it once, do it again in a week or a month
2020-01-16T04:25:54 < Cracki> if you aren't bored, you won't sound boring
2020-01-16T04:26:06 < Cracki> so make sure your stuff excites you
2020-01-16T04:26:40 < jadew> the part that excites me is when I make it
2020-01-16T04:27:32 < Cracki> here's a dude doing the daily video, except it's not corroded macbooks but blocked drains. he presents himself as having fun at work :3 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xWCEz2oRfaY&list=PLr9U39XQOpezgcbSmskkvllcvAcXuY4oI&index=89
2020-01-16T04:27:46 < Cracki> great, then show yourself making it (or pretending)
2020-01-16T04:28:19 < jadew> thought about it, but that would mean to give away secrets
2020-01-16T04:28:26 < Cracki> show what thoughts and work you put into it
2020-01-16T04:28:58 < jadew> the shit I'm making is only valuable as long as I'm the only one who knows how to make it this good
2020-01-16T04:29:06 < Cracki> you don't have to show the formula for gravity, you just need to show what happens :>
2020-01-16T04:29:35 < jadew> well, yeah, that stuff takes months to figure out in some cases and lots of experimenting
2020-01-16T04:29:57 < Cracki> talk about that, the months of experimentation
2020-01-16T04:30:21 < Cracki> curves of prototypes improving over iterations
2020-01-16T04:30:36 < Cracki> show *how* you test
2020-01-16T04:30:46 < Cracki> it's surely complicated and expensive and very awesome
2020-01-16T04:30:58 < jadew> I showed that in a previous video, that was well received
2020-01-16T04:31:04 < Cracki> great!
2020-01-16T04:31:25 < jadew> it's not awesome, but it takes a lot of time
2020-01-16T04:31:26 < kakinull> do it like lgr oddware review
2020-01-16T04:31:36 < jadew> what's that?
2020-01-16T04:31:53 < kakinull> https://www.youtube.com/results?search_query=lgr
2020-01-16T04:32:09 < Cracki> https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLB9FA1979AB986522
2020-01-16T04:33:04 < jadew> first of all, my english is not that great, so I can't speak like that
2020-01-16T04:33:21 < jadew> second of all, you can't reviewing your own product
2020-01-16T04:33:24 < Cracki> so you're more like a feranec
2020-01-16T04:33:30 < jadew> so there's no "discovery" going on
2020-01-16T04:33:47 < jadew> you're just presenting stuff and that's not as fun to watch
2020-01-16T04:33:49 < Cracki> good point
2020-01-16T04:34:00 < Cracki> maybe get someone to endorse your stuff
2020-01-16T04:34:37 < Cracki> tbh I find you more understandable than feranec
2020-01-16T04:34:58 < jadew> thanks
2020-01-16T04:35:01 < Cracki> in your freq counter options video, you sound like you read from a script
2020-01-16T04:35:13 < jadew> I was
2020-01-16T04:35:15 < Cracki> I think that's what you hear, sounds a little flat
2020-01-16T04:35:22 < Cracki> shorter, simpler sentences
2020-01-16T04:35:44 < Cracki> bold or highlight the one word you want to emphasize in every sentence
2020-01-16T04:36:06 < jadew> I tried to do it on the fly, but I ended up spending a week on it and messing it up
2020-01-16T04:36:10 < Cracki> ;)
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2020-01-16T04:36:20 < jadew> once I started writing some phrases down, I could get them right in one or two takes
2020-01-16T04:36:27 < Cracki> my boss wants to start making videos. I don't think he has any idea what's coming for him
2020-01-16T04:36:54 < Cracki> what you can also do is just chat into the camera, do multiple takes, discard, cut, mix and match, or redo whatever
2020-01-16T04:37:00 < jadew> yeah, it's very difficult, especially if you're not a native english speaker
2020-01-16T04:37:06 < jadew> I could do a much better job in romanian
2020-01-16T04:37:16 < Cracki> do the first iterations in romanian if it helps
2020-01-16T04:37:28 < Cracki> you want to work on how to convey. language matters little.
2020-01-16T04:37:45 < jadew> I wouldn't know the words in romanian tho
2020-01-16T04:37:54 < jadew> I can't speak electronics in romanian
2020-01-16T04:38:08 < Cracki> ¯\_(ツ)_/¯ make ones up or use english in between :P
2020-01-16T04:38:17 < jadew> heh
2020-01-16T04:40:29 < Cracki> any time you verbally claim something, you can throw the details (charts, numbers) up on the video
2020-01-16T04:41:30 < Cracki> presentations range from reciting the bible to campfire stories
2020-01-16T04:41:44 < Cracki> ppt karaoke is almost reciting the bible
2020-01-16T04:41:46 < jadew> I think I did that in the first variant, not sure why I choose not to do it in v2
2020-01-16T04:41:56 < kakinull> add piano track to bg
2020-01-16T04:42:01 < jadew> haha
2020-01-16T04:42:02 < Cracki> o.o
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2020-01-16T04:42:28 < kakinull> Laurenceb: what you doin?
2020-01-16T04:42:38 < antto> Raulenceb
2020-01-16T04:42:57 < antto> nakikull
2020-01-16T04:43:28 < Cracki> in and out
2020-01-16T04:45:01 < Cracki> uh you characterize every single board? that's thorough
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2020-01-16T04:47:20 < Cracki> that testing program is doing some very finely spaced sampling there. did you ever produce heatmaps from that data?
2020-01-16T04:48:56 < Cracki> consider checking youtube's generated captions. it hears "koozai.com" instead of your domain
2020-01-16T04:49:23 < Cracki> that domain actually exists and has content
2020-01-16T04:49:45 < jadew> Cracki, hah, I missed that
2020-01-16T04:49:50 < jadew> yeah, I'm characterizing each board
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2020-01-16T04:50:37 < jadew> I actually characterize each cable too and they get delivered with a characterization sheet so the user knows what to expect when they're doing their own measurements
2020-01-16T04:51:10 < jadew> there are other stuff that I don't characterize for each board, but there are relevant for the design
2020-01-16T04:51:23 < Cracki> add that to the "package contents" list
2020-01-16T04:51:26 < jadew> once I settle on it, that thing doesn't change much and users wouldn't know that stuff matters anyway
2020-01-16T04:51:42 < jadew> not a bad idea!
2020-01-16T04:52:07 < Cracki> ppl love calibrations and certificates
2020-01-16T04:52:17 < jadew> but if I do, I'll have to add something else in the package
2020-01-16T04:52:25 < jadew> I wanted it to be like a small nice surprise
2020-01-16T04:52:31 < Cracki> heh
2020-01-16T04:53:20 < Cracki> contents: char. sheet, results will surprise you!
2020-01-16T04:53:27 < jadew> haha
2020-01-16T04:53:47 < jadew> no, I meant the char. sheet was the surprise
2020-01-16T04:53:53 < Cracki> indeed
2020-01-16T04:57:54 < jadew> I added the subtitles thing to my todo list
2020-01-16T04:57:56 < jadew> thanks
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2020-01-16T05:21:09 < jadew> I have to wake up in an hour
2020-01-16T05:21:10 < jadew> night
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2020-01-16T11:01:12 < jadew> sup?
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2020-01-16T13:41:00 < kakiboss> mogon jadew
2020-01-16T13:41:06 < kakiboss> morgon*
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2020-01-16T13:52:38 < englishman> asics for $25k https://www.zglue.com/products/chipbuilder
2020-01-16T14:06:30 < kakiboss> morgon englishman
2020-01-16T14:06:48 < englishman> hello kaki
2020-01-16T14:07:01 < englishman> how are innovations
2020-01-16T14:09:44 < kakiboss> totally no innovation englishman
2020-01-16T14:09:56 < kakiboss> what is that free option there englishman?
2020-01-16T14:11:19 < kakiboss> you pay 25k for private designs?
2020-01-16T14:20:41 < thardin> $25k for how many?
2020-01-16T14:21:43 < thardin> can you send in your own masks or only use their library of stuff?
2020-01-16T14:22:48 < thardin> 10 chips for $25k, sounds a bit higher than quotes I've seen from some foundries. perhaps they have newer tech tho
2020-01-16T14:24:32 < karlp> if you are capable of making your own masks, you're not their target audience...
2020-01-16T14:29:43 < englishman> pretty sure cadence is already more than $25k
2020-01-16T14:37:53 < thardin> I wonder how it compares to libresilicon
2020-01-16T14:40:17 < doomba> heh i just watched some advertisement on the digikey website
2020-01-16T14:41:10 < doomba> about some iot company that uses st-nucleo-32 boards, kicad to make sigfox and lora modules, and then puts their own branded stickers on gl-inet openwrt routers and calls them their IoT gateway.
2020-01-16T14:41:38 < doomba> people buy this shit?
2020-01-16T14:41:44 < jpa-> why wouldn't they?
2020-01-16T14:42:15 < jpa-> was it ridicuously expensive? otherwise sounds like a pretty cheap way to do such dev stuff
2020-01-16T14:42:32 < doomba> i donno. to me it just seems dirty using evaluation boards and "other peoples' products" - calling them your own and selling them as your actual product.
2020-01-16T14:42:59 < jpa-> .. like, say, putting a microcontroller on a board and calling that a product?
2020-01-16T14:43:06 < doomba> no
2020-01-16T14:43:35 < doomba> like putting an arduino or st-nucleo board and a LoRa board together and saying "here's our IoT product"
2020-01-16T14:43:45 < doomba> not just for development. it IS the product.
2020-01-16T14:43:45 < jpa-> after all, with such a construction it is pretty unlikely to be used for any high-volume product - so it is basically "add some extra stuff to evaluation board, sell it for evaluating"
2020-01-16T14:43:53 < Steffanx> jpa- is like the devil's advocatr
2020-01-16T14:44:07 < doomba> not an evaluation. lol that's what i'm trying to say.
2020-01-16T14:44:11 < Steffanx> e
2020-01-16T14:44:28 < jpa-> doomba: well, people would buy it for evaluation or small-scale use only
2020-01-16T14:44:42 < doomba> then their IoT gateway... they took a gl-inet ar-300m and put their sticker on it. rofl
2020-01-16T14:44:44 < jpa-> because at higher volumes, it is obviously more effective to make a fully custom pcb etc.
2020-01-16T14:45:07 < doomba> actually no it's an ar150.
2020-01-16T14:45:09 < doomba> the ar150's are white
2020-01-16T14:45:30 < doomba> but still. wtfuxor.
2020-01-16T14:45:35 < jpa-> pretty much all low-cost lora gateways are like that - what else would you do? buy the parts separately and figure out a functional combination, just so that you can deploy the 5-10 gateways you'll need?
2020-01-16T14:46:03 < doomba> i get that. and these are startups.
2020-01-16T14:46:34 < jpa-> or redesign a wifi router just so that you pay 20keur to go through re-certification, instead of slapping on an USB module?
2020-01-16T14:46:47 < doomba> i dislike that they try to bamboozle their potential clients with "look we made this gateway" and it's a fucking $20 chinesium router they slapped a sticker on.
2020-01-16T14:47:09 < jpa-> and preinstalled software and tested it to work
2020-01-16T14:47:17 < doomba> maybe that's wh y i'll never run a company
2020-01-16T14:47:26 < doomba> because i'm not willing to mislead people.
2020-01-16T14:47:26 < jpa-> i don't understand why slapping things into a box is somehow less of "making a product" than slapping chips on a pcb is
2020-01-16T14:51:23 < englishman> ee gatekeeping
2020-01-16T14:51:25 < jpa-> if I recall correctly, IMST first did their lora gateway with a full custom design - and it was annoying to upgrade because of custom linux port, sometimes crashed randomly because lack of extensive testing or something, and ended up being ridicuously expensive; now they've imitated competition and just slap a raspberry pi or openwrt into a box, because it works better in practice
2020-01-16T14:51:49 < kakiboss> and that is what customer wants
2020-01-16T14:51:54 < kakiboss> srly
2020-01-16T14:53:21 < jpa-> yeah - now, if that startup that doomba has not identified does something else stupid like not publishing sources required by GPL or not documenting their system, that is whole another thing - but if it is just a well working combo of wifi-router + preinstalled openwrt & needed lora gateway software + lora gateway usb module, then it sounds like a pretty well designed product to me
2020-01-16T14:53:37 < englishman> in related news, @work we are using this in a product and now it is discontinued. wtf to replace it with https://buy.advantech.com/I-O-Devices-Communication/Industrial-Communication-USB-to-Serial-Converters-Hubs-and-Isolators-USB-Hubs/model-BB-UE204.htm
2020-01-16T14:54:05 < jpa-> englishman: raspberry pi, of course
2020-01-16T14:54:09 < englishman> luckily i have deliberated this task but i fear an actual development is required
2020-01-16T14:54:39 < englishman> ha
2020-01-16T14:54:40 < englishman> hmm.
2020-01-16T14:54:44 < englishman> not bad
2020-01-16T14:55:38 < englishman> shitbetterypi + haskell program started in crontab
2020-01-16T14:56:02 < englishman> still more than 0 development but not too bad
2020-01-16T14:56:05 < jpa-> no haskell, https://derushadigital.com/other%20projects/2019/02/19/RPi-USBIP-ZWave.html
2020-01-16T14:56:14 < jpa-> just standard usbip
2020-01-16T14:56:51 < englishman> is that a standard?
2020-01-16T14:56:59 < jpa-> then slap a sticker on top "Englishman inc. Industrial USB server" and sell it
2020-01-16T14:57:15 < englishman> yeah that advantech is like $250
2020-01-16T14:57:42 < jpa-> well standard atleast in that it is documented and there are clients for windows and linux and whatnot
2020-01-16T14:58:08 < englishman> cool
2020-01-16T14:58:12 < englishman> is there also a uart/ip?
2020-01-16T14:58:36 < englishman> tho of course cdc would be supported in usb
2020-01-16T14:59:57 < englishman> ha this is cool thanks
2020-01-16T15:02:03 < jpa-> not sure if there is anything that allows full control of serial port over ip, but pretty normal is to set port config with stty and then just pipe it to tcp/ip port with ncat
2020-01-16T15:05:00 < karlp> englishman: yar, was that advantech part just doing usbip or something custom? will very much determine what you replace it with :)
2020-01-16T15:05:37 < englishman> it was using advantech's own drivers, didn't look into it further. we might have to tweak our own software a bit
2020-01-16T15:06:00 < karlp> if you're _only_ using it with serial ports, then ser2net on the pi/etal is probably more than sufficient.
2020-01-16T15:06:34 < englishman> yep just cdc devices
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2020-01-16T15:07:25 < englishman> all this thing does is take 4 off the shelf devices, put it in 1 box and give it ethernet.
2020-01-16T15:07:29 < englishman> cuz people want that
2020-01-16T15:07:46 < englishman> plus we can charge >4x price
2020-01-16T15:08:04 < karlp> the advantech client drivers then are doing what? does it appear as a locl com port and usb device then though?
2020-01-16T15:08:21 < karlp> you'd want usbip again for taht, if you want one of the "standard" ones.
2020-01-16T15:08:48 < karlp> iirc, there's another one used in one of the virtualization environments that's "more performant" but not as widely used.
2020-01-16T15:09:03 < englishman> from reading our own user manual it looked like it installed something proprietary and closed like a usb endpoint
2020-01-16T15:09:27 < karlp> so... what's inside the advantech part? :)
2020-01-16T15:09:37 < karlp> theyv'ðe got such a massive product line, it's impressive
2020-01-16T15:09:39 < englishman> Simply load the free software on your PC and it will locate the USB hub on the
2020-01-16T15:09:40 < englishman> network and allow you to use peripheral devices as if they were attached locally. 
2020-01-16T15:10:20 < englishman> heh i'll ask the guy to open one up.
2020-01-16T15:10:21 < karlp> so udp broadcast spam or mdns-sd/SSDP magic to find it as well.
2020-01-16T15:10:45 < karlp> (me is gonna laugh at seeing a rpi1 inside....)
2020-01-16T15:18:59 < karlp> englishman: also, clearly, this is the solution, just look at that domain name: https://www.best-usb-over-ethernet-solutions.com/
2020-01-16T15:19:12 < zyp> haha
2020-01-16T15:21:30 < karlp> (though they all seem to be software packages, not in a box ready to go)
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2020-01-16T16:45:22 < englishman> wow nice SEO there
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2020-01-16T17:33:03 < Laurenceb> girl gamers rise up!
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2020-01-16T17:36:46 < kakinull> lurencer
2020-01-16T17:36:56 < kakinull> what are you doin?
2020-01-16T17:37:11 < kakinull> consume meme all day now?
2020-01-16T17:37:11 < thardin> we live in an economy
2020-01-16T17:38:55 < englishman> he already did that
2020-01-16T17:39:12 < englishman> which is why he does so now without employment
2020-01-16T17:41:26 < kakinull> he could build nukes for third world countries
2020-01-16T17:41:38 < kakinull> instead just memes
2020-01-16T17:44:22 < kakinull> but I'm seriously interested what is lurence planning because I relate to his situation
2020-01-16T17:44:42 < kakinull> also he is very talented
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2020-01-16T18:15:16 < bitmask> parts for a diy spot welder ordered
2020-01-16T18:15:39 < bitmask> well, mostly, still need a few things
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2020-01-16T18:34:23 < bitmask> https://youtu.be/k621ZZs2PAo
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2020-01-16T19:00:09 < Steffanx> Dont blow it bitmask bitmask 
2020-01-16T19:00:41 < bitmask> its gonna be nice
2020-01-16T19:00:57 < bitmask> https://www.aliexpress.com/item/4000159582296.html
2020-01-16T19:01:00 < bitmask> check that bad boy out
2020-01-16T19:02:07 < bitmask> a bit expensive for what it is but I didnt feel like making my own, plus I dont have a drill press that would be needed to make the electrode holder
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2020-01-16T20:18:24 < machinehum> hi
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2020-01-16T20:21:25 < srk> sup
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2020-01-16T20:42:18 < srk> registers! http://ix.io/27z1
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2020-01-16T21:00:36 < Steffanx> Goodbye.
2020-01-16T21:01:49 < doomba> https://github.com/ayufan-rock64/pinebook-pro-keyboard-updater/blob/master/firmware/tpfw.bin
2020-01-16T21:02:53 < doomba> if anyone is bored - and also happens to be good with IDA - do the contents of this file look like they could be something arm?
2020-01-16T21:04:11 < doomba> it gets flashed over i2c to a chip that nobody knows anything about.
2020-01-16T21:04:15 < doomba> HLK H2168 is the part #
2020-01-16T21:04:59 < doomba> somebody put a logic analyzer on it and captured the flashing process. i was able to figure out the protocol. but i still have no idea wtf this chip is.
2020-01-16T21:05:50 < doomba> it's funny because the touchpad pcb part # has a spec sheet saying the touchpad ic is a QFN48 PCT1336QN. there's a datasheet for it. but on the actual pcb with THE SAME MODEL #, it's a QFN40 with this mystery IC.
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2020-01-16T21:06:44 < BrainDamage> can't you just run it through an assembler and check if the registers are consistent?
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2020-01-16T21:10:41 < PaulFertser> In r2 it looks neither like ARM nor like Thumb.
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2020-01-16T21:27:42 < specing> in thinkpads the trackpoint is controlled by an 8051 mcu
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2020-01-16T21:28:10 < specing> what does the chip do in the pinebook? control keyboard or touchpad or both?
2020-01-16T21:28:25 < specing> Quite hilarious to not have foss code on peripherals
2020-01-16T21:30:03 < kakinull> steff: alita battle angel or hotel artemis?
2020-01-16T21:30:36 < kakinull> what causes trackpoint constant speed drift now and then?
2020-01-16T21:30:50 < Steffanx> alita battle angel  wasnt too bad. havent seen the other one
2020-01-16T21:30:52 < kakinull> or runaway rather
2020-01-16T21:31:30 < doomba> specing: the keyboard in the pinebook is controlled by a SH68F83, an asic with 8051 and a bunch of application specific SFRs. the touchpad is this mystery chip that talks to the SH68F83 via i2c
2020-01-16T21:32:02 < doomba> proprietariez codez on the SH68F83 just proxy that i2c data from the touchpad over usb
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2020-01-16T21:55:43 < machinehum> srk: Learning rust
2020-01-16T21:55:56 < invzim> ooh, shiny new keyboard - my productivity is going to go through the roof!
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2020-01-16T21:56:06 < machinehum> Cool registers
2020-01-16T21:57:15 < Laurenceb> I can feel it cooming in the air tonight, oh lord
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2020-01-16T22:07:23 < karlp> Steffanx: yar, alita battle angel was.... fun I guess?
2020-01-16T22:07:31 < karlp> strangest movie I've seen in a while, glad it was on a plane :)
2020-01-16T22:08:23 < karlp> doomba: partnumber looks like holtek, could try just emailing them? what's teh goal though? it smells like a jeepeeeeelllllll frothing.
2020-01-16T22:09:29 < doomba> idgaf about GPL d00d
2020-01-16T22:10:27 < qyx> making an oshw notebook and not using a common make:r friendly mcu, such as avr?!
2020-01-16T22:10:40 < doomba> the touchpad in the pinebook pro is all fucked and the keyboard chip requires chinese flash tools and software that are all in chinese ... and their modified pirated copy of KIEL uVision to compile the bullshit
2020-01-16T22:10:45 < qyx> with its .ino code on github
2020-01-16T22:11:14 < Steffanx> lol doomba you reminded me of this: https://github.com/karlp/zypsnips/blob/master/stm32-rap.txt
2020-01-16T22:11:20 < Steffanx> Rapper CRT.
2020-01-16T22:12:01 < doomba> i found some forum all in chinese with screenshots of some tool that's also all chinese
2020-01-16T22:12:06 < karlp> qyx: presumably keeping cost down and it was "just meant to work" ?
2020-01-16T22:12:15 < doomba> but it says ISP51 and has the keyboard chip's part #
2020-01-16T22:12:19 < karlp> you've spoken to the pine people right?
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2020-01-16T22:12:30 < doomba> i'm guessing the OP was some wagie in china trying to get the flash tool to work.
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2020-01-16T22:13:02 < doomba> the pine people are working with some chinese dude who writes the firmware for keyboard/touchpad
2020-01-16T22:13:14 < doomba> the touchpad isn't calibrated correctly and is drunk af
2020-01-16T22:13:29 < doomba> and the pine people seem to be trying to downplay it with "oh just change your acceleration settings"
2020-01-16T22:17:11 < qyx> do you have it?
2020-01-16T22:17:14 < qyx> the pinebook
2020-01-16T22:17:27 < specing> machinehum: why rust?
2020-01-16T22:18:33 < Steffanx> specing: Linux (none) 3.19.0-xilinx-svn8988 #187 SMP PREEMPT Wed Feb 28 18:55:09 CST 2018 armv7l GNU/Linux. Doesnt look helpful to me
2020-01-16T22:18:44 < specing> Steffanx: hmm
2020-01-16T22:18:46 < specing> Steffanx: cpuid?
2020-01-16T22:19:01 < specing> Steffanx: oh, there is a cpuid command
2020-01-16T22:19:06 < specing> how convenient
2020-01-16T22:19:19 < Steffanx> not really.
2020-01-16T22:20:25 < Steffanx> there is /proc/cpuinfo
2020-01-16T22:20:32 < Steffanx> seems to show the same info as https://forums.xilinx.com/t5/Memory-Interfaces-and-NoC/Microzed-7020-Memory-Test-fails-for-ps7-ddr-0/td-p/930557
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2020-01-16T22:21:31 < Steffanx> specing: i actually used this in the past: https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/unlocking-siglent-sds1104x-e-step-by-step/ . The same topic also shows some log where it mentions something about a "zed development board"
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2020-01-16T22:22:08 < doomba> qyx: yep
2020-01-16T22:22:48 < specing> Steffanx: it could be the 7020 inside, yes (it is that one in 1202x-e)
2020-01-16T22:23:22 < specing> But I thought, since 1104x-e has that "HDMI" port up front it might be using some transceivers or something and only 7030 and up have those
2020-01-16T22:24:30 < Steffanx> lol that hmdi port.
2020-01-16T22:28:59 -!- catphish [~catphish@unaffiliated/catphish] has joined ##stm32
2020-01-16T22:29:10 < Steffanx> Welcome catphish. hows the scope?
2020-01-16T22:29:24 < catphish> i don't have one :'(
2020-01-16T22:29:29 < Steffanx> yet
2020-01-16T22:30:10 -!- mawk` is now known as mawk
2020-01-16T22:30:19 < mawk> hi
2020-01-16T22:30:25 < mawk> they gave me my server back Cracki 
2020-01-16T22:30:31 < mawk> they still won't explain what happened
2020-01-16T22:30:37 < Steffanx> is it still safe for us to talk to you?
2020-01-16T22:30:41 < mawk> 100% positive they dumped the hard drive and ram
2020-01-16T22:30:41 < mawk> lol
2020-01-16T22:30:42 < mawk> yes
2020-01-16T22:31:24 < specing> Steffanx: "HDMI"*
2020-01-16T22:31:31 < specing> it is not actually HDMI
2020-01-16T22:31:33 < specing> (afaik)
2020-01-16T22:32:00 < specing> hey catphish  maybe we'll get a discount if we organise a group buy 
2020-01-16T22:32:03 < Cracki> dumping encrypted disks is not an acceptable means of sourcing OTP bits
2020-01-16T22:32:04 < specing> :)
2020-01-16T22:32:41 < specing> mawk: was it your physical server? Or just rented one? What were you hosting?
2020-01-16T22:32:41 < catphish> mawk: your server got raided?
2020-01-16T22:34:30 -!- c10ud^ [~c10ud@emesene/dictator/c10ud] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds]
2020-01-16T22:36:05 < catphish> i develop virtual machine management systems for hosting companies, one weird requirement is the ability to freeze a server, dump its ram, and archive that along with a snapshot of its disk, in case of a court order
2020-01-16T22:36:28 < Steffanx> no, iirc it for their 16 channel logic analyzer thingy, specing
2020-01-16T22:36:48 < BrainDamage> they are renting
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2020-01-16T22:37:03 < BrainDamage> so I guess it falls 100% in your sw use case
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2020-01-16T22:39:20 < Steffanx> Werent you hosting some image posting crap that happened to have things you dont want on there on it mawk?
2020-01-16T22:39:59 < mawk> rented specing 
2020-01-16T22:40:02 < mawk> yes catphish 
2020-01-16T22:40:15 < BrainDamage> being encrypted end to end means that mawk doesn't even see the content
2020-01-16T22:40:36 < mawk> yes indeed BrainDamage 
2020-01-16T22:40:42 < BrainDamage> howrever, the server logs can be sufficient to find people who access it
2020-01-16T22:40:52 < BrainDamage> if they know the content hash
2020-01-16T22:41:28 < mawk> but I didn't keep log
2020-01-16T22:41:30 < mawk> and it was TLS
2020-01-16T22:41:37 < mawk> unless they monitored RAM in realtime
2020-01-16T22:42:11 < mawk> yes Steffanx 
2020-01-16T22:42:17 < BrainDamage> tls or not the endpoints will have the hash
2020-01-16T22:42:31 < mawk> yes
2020-01-16T22:42:55 < BrainDamage> so if they raid someone which accessed it, they'll be able to, if you had logs, to find who else accessed
2020-01-16T22:44:29 < Steffanx> So you can go to jail for this mawk?
2020-01-16T22:45:33 < catphish> mawk: what were you running that they were interested in anyway?
2020-01-16T22:45:46 < mawk> normally no Steffanx the law protects me
2020-01-16T22:46:01 < mawk> a free image host catphish 
2020-01-16T22:46:22 < mawk> Jan 16 10:34:47 dns unbound[287]: [287:0] info: failed to prime trust anchor -- could not fetch DNSKEY rrset . DNSKEY IN
2020-01-16T22:46:24 < mawk> what does that mean
2020-01-16T22:46:32 < mawk> are they trying to intercept my TLS or what
2020-01-16T22:46:42  * mawk gets paranoid
2020-01-16T22:47:14 < mawk> probably firewall issue
2020-01-16T22:47:45 < Steffanx> How did this service work anyway? Did you post something, shared some key and someone else used that key to retreive it?
2020-01-16T22:47:57 < Steffanx> or just some random link and done?
2020-01-16T22:48:19 < BrainDamage> Steffanx: just like mega works, the encryption key is passed as part of the url
2020-01-16T22:48:39 < BrainDamage> and content gets encrypted/decrypted by the browser through javascript
2020-01-16T22:48:47 < BrainDamage> the encryption key never hits the server
2020-01-16T22:49:14 < BrainDamage> mawk: I would double check they didn't install some backdoor in the js that's served to the clients
2020-01-16T22:49:17 < catphish> public encrypted image hosting with no logs? i can certainly see how that could be misused
2020-01-16T22:49:41 < mawk> it's decrypted in the server BrainDamage , since I do hotlinking
2020-01-16T22:49:47 < mawk> so I rely on them not dumping the RAM
2020-01-16T22:49:49 < mawk> or not logging
2020-01-16T22:50:02 < mawk> the key is in the link Steffanx 
2020-01-16T22:50:06 < mawk> which is not logged in the server
2020-01-16T22:50:20 < mawk> so with the image link you can retrieve it and view it, like a normal image host
2020-01-16T22:50:26 < mawk> but server side if you dump the database it's useless
2020-01-16T22:50:38 < mawk> it's an oracle BSD DB database 
2020-01-16T22:51:38 < catphish> well that all makes sense
2020-01-16T22:53:02 < catphish> doesn't seem like there'll be much to find
2020-01-16T22:53:25 < Steffanx> except for kiddy porn when you have the right URLs, so fuck that :P
2020-01-16T22:53:37 < Steffanx> or whatever it was the policy happened to find on his server
2020-01-16T22:53:48 < mawk> it's been 3 times the police wants something about the host catphish 
2020-01-16T22:54:11 < catphish> well that doesn't seem at all surprising, given the obvious illegal use
2020-01-16T22:55:57 < catphish> do they ever ask you to delete stuff?
2020-01-16T22:57:18 < mawk> they ask for deletion but it's secondary
2020-01-16T22:57:22 < mawk> they mainly want the logs
2020-01-16T22:57:52 < catphish> yeah i guess that would be the obvious request
2020-01-16T22:58:48 < Steffanx> They will ask mawk to delete link X. When mawk accesses the link to check what it is, they will arrest him for looking at whatever it was. :P
2020-01-16T22:59:45 < mawk> lol
2020-01-16T22:59:48 < mawk> I never look at the links
2020-01-16T23:00:01 < mawk> I don't want to be traumatized for life
2020-01-16T23:01:39 < Steffanx> Damn, i wouldnt be able to stop myself from looking. lucky you :)
2020-01-16T23:07:17 < catphish> why do you bother?
2020-01-16T23:08:05 < catphish> i can't help but feel that nobody should provide this service
2020-01-16T23:08:46 < Steffanx> but the legal useses!
2020-01-16T23:08:56 < Steffanx> Like sharing brexit pics
2020-01-16T23:11:42 < BrainDamage> or porn pics for uk
2020-01-16T23:12:45 < catphish> BrainDamage: if they're illegal then it's not a legal use :)
2020-01-16T23:13:12 < BrainDamage> illegal doesn't mean immoral
2020-01-16T23:13:16 < catphish> BrainDamage: we don't want to allow criminals to share their face sitting pics within our borders!
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2020-01-16T23:13:53 < catphish>  /s
2020-01-16T23:14:34 < BrainDamage> yeah, I guess that'd remind people who much they are whipped by their government
2020-01-16T23:14:44 < BrainDamage> s/who/how/
2020-01-16T23:14:55 < catphish> legal is society's collective decision on morality though
2020-01-16T23:15:02 < qyx> doomba: is it usable for a mobile desktop?
2020-01-16T23:15:48 < BrainDamage> catphish: except when most of the world thinks something is moral, then there's something wrong with your government
2020-01-16T23:15:58 < BrainDamage> a government can be detached from its own society
2020-01-16T23:16:19 < BrainDamage> see china for example, a lot of things there are illegal, but quite moral everywhere else
2020-01-16T23:16:23 < karlp> catphish: hahah
2020-01-16T23:16:24 < doomba> qyx: wtf is a mobile desktop
2020-01-16T23:16:27 < catphish> i would say with certainty that if something is clearly, objectively, or universally considered moral, and is illegal, then lawmakers have made a mistake and should be fired
2020-01-16T23:16:41 < karlp> nothing's black and white though is it? :)
2020-01-16T23:17:47 < BrainDamage> also if laws were about morality, they wouldn't change with the times
2020-01-16T23:17:54 < BrainDamage> see for example light drug usage
2020-01-16T23:18:06 < BrainDamage> or prohibitionism
2020-01-16T23:18:18 < catphish> this is why i'm surprised by our government's popularity, their policies don't seem to match up with the population on moral issues, but they seem to win because people think the economy is more important, and they're willing to be dictated to accordingly
2020-01-16T23:18:40 < doomba> Firefox automatically sends some data to Mozilla, the NSA, Google, Facebook, the CIA, the IRS, the DHS, MI5, MI6, Amazon, Alibaba, the Chinese Communist Leadership, and various third parties listed in the 8906 page Mozilla User Agreement so that we can improve your experience.
2020-01-16T23:18:44 < qyx> doomba: a mobile device to do desktop work
2020-01-16T23:18:44 < catphish> morality isn't absolute, its' about perception
2020-01-16T23:18:55 < qyx> doomba: ie. not a phone, tablet or so
2020-01-16T23:19:07 < doomba> qyx: sure.
2020-01-16T23:19:20 < BrainDamage> I never understood why when you pick a government you have to take a bundle of choices on economical and social issues
2020-01-16T23:19:45 < doomba> it's light. gets OK battery life. 4GB ram with a 6 core rk3399. runs all the lunixes and some bsds.
2020-01-16T23:19:53 < doomba> 1920x1080 display
2020-01-16T23:20:12 < doomba> the case has two microphone holes because LOL china
2020-01-16T23:20:36 < doomba> the keyboard is actually not bad. the touchpad is slightly intoxicated.
2020-01-16T23:20:40 < BrainDamage> isn't that the device that claims no mics "to not spy you"?
2020-01-16T23:20:48 < BrainDamage> as if hardware switches aren't a thing?
2020-01-16T23:20:59 < doomba> it has hardware kill switches for mic, camera, wifi/bt.
2020-01-16T23:21:07 < doomba> the 2 microphone holes thing is ... funny as hell.
2020-01-16T23:21:09 < BrainDamage> oh, then it was another one
2020-01-16T23:21:14 < doomba> because only one hole has a mic
2020-01-16T23:21:47 < doomba> like the top case where the keyboard is has two holes with little microphone logos on mine.
2020-01-16T23:21:51 < doomba> but not everyone got one like that.
2020-01-16T23:22:02 < doomba> you basically get whatever you get from china they said.
2020-01-16T23:22:25 < BrainDamage> perhaps recycled shell
2020-01-16T23:22:46 < BrainDamage> my laptop also recycles clevo cases, but the hardware is customm
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2020-01-16T23:36:28 < catphish> BrainDamage: perhaps we should vote on every government office individually!
2020-01-16T23:37:45 < Steffanx> They will screw you over no matter what catphish.
2020-01-16T23:38:21 < Steffanx> Did you see latest terminator yet, kakinull / kakiboss / kaki* ?
2020-01-16T23:38:36 < kakinull> I wont
2020-01-16T23:38:55 < Steffanx> WONT?
2020-01-16T23:39:04 < Steffanx> but arny.
2020-01-16T23:41:41 < kakinull> I think they butchered it already
2020-01-16T23:42:35 < Steffanx> Hm
2020-01-16T23:43:29 < kakinull> they don't know when to stop
2020-01-16T23:43:46 < Steffanx> It's done now
2020-01-16T23:43:55 < Steffanx> Did you see latest Rambo yet?
2020-01-16T23:44:02 < kakinull> yes
2020-01-16T23:44:05 < Steffanx> Good.
2020-01-16T23:44:08 < Steffanx> Happy?
2020-01-16T23:44:11 < kakinull> no
2020-01-16T23:44:25 < Steffanx> But grandpa wasnt too bad
2020-01-16T23:46:29 < Steffanx> I mean. RAMBO was never good. Just OK
2020-01-16T23:48:24 < kakinull> rambo is chain-fed machinegun from hip
2020-01-16T23:49:07 < doomba> i saw it.
2020-01-16T23:49:21 < doomba> it was pretty dull until the end and then it just got ridiculous
2020-01-16T23:49:41 < kakinull> I wonder how I would like the original now
2020-01-16T23:49:45 < kakinull> would it feel dated
2020-01-16T23:50:14 < doomba> did you watch black mirror bandersnatch?
2020-01-16T23:50:28 < Steffanx> It will make you feel old kakinull 
2020-01-16T23:50:39 < Steffanx> Black mirror? No I skipped that
2020-01-16T23:51:07 < kakinull> I skipped that too
2020-01-16T23:51:31 < doomba> it was good
2020-01-16T23:55:48 < doomba> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D3qxWbQ8qek
--- Day changed Fri Jan 17 2020
2020-01-17T00:04:11 < kakinull> it was just weird
2020-01-17T00:05:15 < kakinull> maybe I didn't try it enough
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2020-01-17T01:06:28 < jly> good morning steffan
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2020-01-17T04:05:55 < Cracki> *banging trash can lids*
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2020-01-17T07:47:42 < jpa-> meh, fuzztesting nanopb on AVR; i keep hitting bugs in avr-libc malloc
2020-01-17T07:47:54 < jpa-> some of them even reported with patch & unfixed for years
2020-01-17T07:50:14 < Simon--> malloc on avr?
2020-01-17T07:50:59 < Simon--> there's room for heap? ;)
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2020-01-17T08:25:57 < jly> hi steffan
2020-01-17T09:04:09 < Steffanx> Hello jly
2020-01-17T09:06:37 < jly> hi :)
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2020-01-17T09:51:55 < Steffanx> Gooday
2020-01-17T09:52:16 < Steffanx> Hows your stm32 adventure game going mr jly?
2020-01-17T09:54:30 < jly> it's good
2020-01-17T09:54:43 < jly> I found an IRC channel
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2020-01-17T09:59:49 < Steffanx> I heard about telegram pros too
2020-01-17T10:04:31 < jly> yeah they're all about pumping
2020-01-17T10:04:50 < jly> jk
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2020-01-17T11:04:33 < jly> Steffanx: you know what you look like to me with your good bag and your cheap shoes?
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2020-01-17T15:02:25 < Thorn> T - 24 h https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mhrkdHshb3E
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2020-01-17T16:58:26 < englishman> fenugrec: calllissss
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2020-01-17T17:57:31 < fenugrec> englishman, sup
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2020-01-17T18:15:12 < englishman> fenugrec: yé frette
2020-01-17T18:25:41 < fenugrec> ben non
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2020-01-17T18:38:42 < englishman> wtf, can't generate a microsemi license
2020-01-17T18:39:02 < englishman> libero license utility has a actel.com hardlink that's broken
2020-01-17T18:39:13 < englishman> microsemi page reidrects to homepage
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2020-01-17T18:50:20  * karlp laughs
2020-01-17T18:53:01 < Steffanx> Lol.
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2020-01-17T19:01:26 < englishman> got it, you have to click some little button and do a survey
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2020-01-17T19:10:34 < Laurenceb> https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/entertainment-arts-51147007
2020-01-17T19:24:36 < bitmask> someone build me a spot welder enclosure
2020-01-17T19:25:18 < zyp> 3d print one?
2020-01-17T19:25:38 < bitmask> yea I guess
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2020-01-17T19:26:27 < bitmask> I wanted to make the thing out of metal or something and 3d print the front plate 
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2020-01-17T20:25:58 < englishman> oh shit
2020-01-17T20:26:10 < englishman> you can develop for microchip arm cores in keil
2020-01-17T20:26:41 < englishman> libero exports the Keil project directly
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2020-01-17T20:39:56 < englishman> wow libero is awesome
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2020-01-17T21:20:37 < qyx> whast is libero
2020-01-17T21:20:42 < qyx> is it foss
2020-01-17T21:27:18 < mawk> I found you on internetz specing 
2020-01-17T21:27:20 < mawk> https://github.com/weechat/weechat/issues/985
2020-01-17T21:30:24 < Steffanx> Are you spying on your fellow ##stm32-mates mawk?
2020-01-17T21:30:30 < BrainDamage> lolrenceb in jail? https://twitter.com/EZPZisback/status/1217873970885734400
2020-01-17T21:30:42 < mawk> no it was by change Steffanx :(
2020-01-17T21:30:48 < mawk> I was looking on how to suspend weechat
2020-01-17T21:31:23 < Steffanx> hah
2020-01-17T21:31:43 < Steffanx> lol BrainDamage. No way Laurenceb is an admin.
2020-01-17T21:32:12 < mawk> he could be
2020-01-17T21:32:19 < mawk> he has surprising hidden resources
2020-01-17T21:32:55 < Steffanx> The 2nd twat is even more funny. 3 or 4 out of 5 went to jail according to that guy
2020-01-17T21:33:15 < Steffanx> 3 or 4 out of 5 admins that is
2020-01-17T21:36:44 < BrainDamage> turns out counterfeit sds are still a thing
2020-01-17T21:36:46 < BrainDamage> https://paste.rs/ERT
2020-01-17T21:36:56 < BrainDamage> fresh off amazon, the top seller
2020-01-17T21:37:07 < BrainDamage> the paintwork is shoddy compared to a genuine device
2020-01-17T21:37:50 < BrainDamage> I wonder what's their profit margins, give the price they have to distribute millions to turn a profit
2020-01-17T21:38:05 < Cracki> europe seems to pay for the shipping
2020-01-17T21:40:34 < Ecco> Hey :)
2020-01-17T21:40:47 < Ecco> I was wondering about SPI NAND memories
2020-01-17T21:41:15 < BrainDamage> that still doesn't add up, when the final price is 8 euro, and free shipping, and retail surcharge the orig price must be 4 or less
2020-01-17T21:41:30 < Laurenceb> woah ED is down
2020-01-17T21:41:35 < BrainDamage> but it's not just a repackaged device, there's firmware edits too
2020-01-17T21:41:35 < Cracki> welcome ecchi
2020-01-17T21:41:42 < BrainDamage> since it reports 32GB
2020-01-17T21:42:01 < BrainDamage> so there's some infra to counterfeit it
2020-01-17T21:42:07 < Cracki> orig price of a "250 MB" card is probably 10 cents
2020-01-17T21:42:15 < Laurenceb> wtf happened
2020-01-17T21:42:19 < Laurenceb> it was up a few days ago
2020-01-17T21:42:27 < BrainDamage> BrainDamage: lolrenceb in jail? https://twitter.com/EZPZisback/status/1217873970885734400
2020-01-17T21:42:33 < Cracki> admin locked up for unrelated fraud or something
2020-01-17T21:43:25 < Laurenceb> >He's not in jail for anything site related 
2020-01-17T21:43:27 < Laurenceb> derp
2020-01-17T21:43:42 < Laurenceb> >never gave anyone the password
2020-01-17T21:43:43 < Cracki> must be brit, jaywalked or sth
2020-01-17T21:43:45 < Laurenceb> derp
2020-01-17T21:43:52 < Ecco> Why are most SPI flash memories NOR-based?
2020-01-17T21:43:58 < Cracki> wat, would *you* give anyone the password to something that awesome?
2020-01-17T21:44:05 < Cracki> nor seems cheap and easy to make
2020-01-17T21:44:31 < Laurenceb> most of my articles were rewritten anyway
2020-01-17T21:44:40 < Ecco> well, supposedly NAND is super cheap
2020-01-17T21:44:43 < Laurenceb> like my science and experiments page
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2020-01-17T21:44:50 < Ecco> which is why it's used pretty much everywhere else, right?
2020-01-17T21:44:54 < mawk> do you have the original Laurenceb ? can I read it ?
2020-01-17T21:45:07 < Ecco> (SD cards, SSDs, eMMCs, etc…)
2020-01-17T21:45:11 < Cracki> ooh https://www.embedded.com/flash-101-nand-flash-vs-nor-flash/
2020-01-17T21:45:12 < Laurenceb> cant remember sorry...
2020-01-17T21:45:30 < Laurenceb> it was about how science rapes nature to make it give birth to rape babies called facts
2020-01-17T21:45:44 < mawk> lol
2020-01-17T21:45:54 < Cracki> looks like it's not cheaper or easier to make :D
2020-01-17T21:47:31 < Ecco> very interesting article, thanks Cracki 
2020-01-17T21:47:32 < Ecco> "NAND Flash memories are available in much higher densities compared to NOR Flash owing primarily to its lower cost per bit."
2020-01-17T21:52:48 < Cracki> https://pbs.twimg.com/media/EOX5epqU8AAqtRV.jpg:orig
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2020-01-17T21:54:46 < tcth> Steffanx
2020-01-17T21:56:34 < mawk> tcth
2020-01-17T21:56:54 < tcth> how´s BIOS-ing?
2020-01-17T22:00:00 < Steffanx> bios?
2020-01-17T22:00:05 < Steffanx> oh mr mawk
2020-01-17T22:00:19 < mawk> unlocked all I could unlock tcth 
2020-01-17T22:00:25 < mawk> then started writing a parser for UEFI form data
2020-01-17T22:00:29 < mawk> but harder than I thought
2020-01-17T22:00:35 < mawk> it's mainly heuristics stuff, can't be sure about nothing
2020-01-17T22:00:43 < mawk> just try to find the most plausible place in the firmware blob
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2020-01-17T22:09:14 < tcth> mawk, anything sad that happened that you could tell me about?
2020-01-17T22:10:33 < mawk> my birth country is falling apart
2020-01-17T22:10:38 < mawk> I guess
2020-01-17T22:10:47 < mawk> some liberty-killing laws are voted every day
2020-01-17T22:10:55 < mawk> parliament members are proposing to tax WWW links
2020-01-17T22:11:03 < mawk> and all kind of stupid stuff
2020-01-17T22:11:08 < tcth> mmh... trying to remember what your country of origin was...
2020-01-17T22:11:11 < mawk> ah yeah and also police raided my server
2020-01-17T22:11:14 < mawk> which is sad
2020-01-17T22:11:15 < mawk> France
2020-01-17T22:11:19 < tcth> ah, was right then
2020-01-17T22:11:26 < tcth> uhm... what happened? I only heard about a strike
2020-01-17T22:11:41 < tcth> a friend was in france and wanted to come visit us for a few days. she was stuck in grenoble for two days
2020-01-17T22:11:47 < mawk> ah
2020-01-17T22:11:52 < mawk> yeah that's the pension fund strike
2020-01-17T22:12:02 < mawk> going on since november
2020-01-17T22:12:09 < mawk> all the strikers are very low on money now
2020-01-17T22:12:15 < mawk> they live on donations for the strike fund
2020-01-17T22:12:28 < mawk> the communist party donated lol
2020-01-17T22:12:56 < tcth> and what happened to your server?
2020-01-17T22:13:09 < mawk> the police raided it
2020-01-17T22:13:14 < mawk> then gave it back
2020-01-17T22:13:22 < mawk> it's full of rootkits now I'm sure
2020-01-17T22:13:37 < mawk> the hosting company didn't want to tell me what was happening
2020-01-17T22:13:48 < mawk> "there is a technical difficulty, we had to lock you out of your account for 24h"
2020-01-17T22:13:57 < mawk> and the servers was shut down from the inside according to network logs
2020-01-17T22:13:59 < mawk> so yeah very shady
2020-01-17T22:14:02 < tcth> OVH?
2020-01-17T22:14:05 < mawk> Online
2020-01-17T22:14:07 < mawk> their competitor
2020-01-17T22:14:13 < mawk> ScaleWay is their english facing brand
2020-01-17T22:14:26 < tcth> I trust in tilaa.nl
2020-01-17T22:14:34 < tcth> Steffanx recommended me that like 10 years ago
2020-01-17T22:14:43 < tcth> I gave them like 50k by now xD
2020-01-17T22:14:47 < mawk> ol
2020-01-17T22:14:49 < mawk> lol
2020-01-17T22:14:51 < mawk> I need dedicated server
2020-01-17T22:14:54 < mawk> no cloud bs
2020-01-17T22:15:13 < tcth> yeah, those we have somewhere else. Tilaa is really for VPS that we use for customer stuff that is okay to be on there
2020-01-17T22:15:21 < tcth> but I am extremely happy with them
2020-01-17T22:15:24 < tcth> in all aspects
2020-01-17T22:15:28 < tcth> 10/10 would bang again
2020-01-17T22:15:32 < mawk> lol
2020-01-17T22:16:59 < tcth> now somebody pls answer my C++ question: https://stackoverflow.com/questions/59793556/c-self-registering-factory-in-library-no-types-registered-in-application
2020-01-17T22:20:00 < Cracki> >factory, boost, uuid, ...
2020-01-17T22:24:08 < specing> tcth: answer: https://www.adacore.com/download
2020-01-17T22:24:47 < Steffanx> haha
2020-01-17T22:24:56 < tcth> ¨How to Succeed in the
2020-01-17T22:24:56 < tcth> Software Business
2020-01-17T22:24:56 < tcth> While Giving Away
2020-01-17T22:24:56 < tcth> the Source Code
2020-01-17T22:24:56 < tcth>  - The AdaCore Experience¨
2020-01-17T22:25:02 < Steffanx> time for that other guy to come in and recommend some haksell
2020-01-17T22:27:27 < tcth> pls troll some more
2020-01-17T22:28:51 < Steffanx> specing is dead serious about Ada, tcth
2020-01-17T22:28:59 < Steffanx> Some with this haksell guy
2020-01-17T22:29:00 < specing> its true
2020-01-17T22:29:09 < specing> I use Ada on stm32
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2020-01-17T22:43:29 < mawk> I did too
2020-01-17T22:43:36 < mawk> I did a realtime embedded flappy bird on stm32 with ada
2020-01-17T22:43:42 < mawk> part of some student project with adacore
2020-01-17T22:43:45 < mawk> I lost the contest
2020-01-17T22:44:49 < mawk> your problem looks very generic tcth 
2020-01-17T22:44:54 < mawk> very specific* sorry
2020-01-17T22:44:56 < mawk> and not very conceptual
2020-01-17T22:45:10 < mawk> high investment low reward low genericity problem => you'll get 0 answers
2020-01-17T22:45:15 < mawk> better pay someone to find out the issue
2020-01-17T22:45:25 < mawk> unless the issue is glaring and obvious
2020-01-17T22:45:40 < mawk> cool code tho
2020-01-17T22:45:47 < tcth> mawk, I agree
2020-01-17T22:46:41 < mawk> every time I use C++ I just find myself doing C augmented with some std:: types
2020-01-17T22:46:50 < mawk> it just doesn't fit in system programming
2020-01-17T22:47:00 < mawk> unless I take the time to write C++ wrappers for everything I use but my time is precious
2020-01-17T22:47:29 < mawk> I already wrote wrappers for the netlink sockets, for systemd/dbus, for a big part of the linux system call interface, for event loop related stuff
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2020-01-17T22:58:24 < mawk> can you provide the boilerplate that works tcth ?
2020-01-17T22:58:40 < mawk>         derived d; // I am not sure if one should in some way force this to not be optimized away.
2020-01-17T22:58:45 < mawk> try [[gnu::used]]
2020-01-17T22:58:49 < mawk> or (void)d; the line after
2020-01-17T22:58:59 < mawk> or __attribute__((__used__)) or [[used]] or whatever you prefer
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2020-01-17T23:17:06 < Steffanx> sup jly
2020-01-17T23:18:38 < jly> not too much
2020-01-17T23:18:43 < jly> saturday I think
2020-01-17T23:18:50 < jly> yeah that's right
2020-01-17T23:24:42 < PaulFertser> I think tcth's question will be answered there. Plenty of C++ pros monitor SO.
2020-01-17T23:28:58 < jly> good morning paul
2020-01-17T23:30:13 < PaulFertser> jly: evening here. How are you?
2020-01-17T23:30:26 < jly> do you like huey lewis and the news?
2020-01-17T23:30:32 < jly> I'm good how are you?
2020-01-17T23:33:39 < PaulFertser> tbh, no idea who huey lewis is. Some russians will read "huey" as "get fucking amazed".
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2020-01-17T23:37:00 < jly> sounds like a plan
2020-01-17T23:37:09 < Steffanx> Sounds all fucked up..
2020-01-17T23:41:45 < jly> There is no STM32 so that's true.
--- Day changed Sat Jan 18 2020
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2020-01-18T02:34:08 < jadew> sup?
2020-01-18T02:34:31 < jadew> I'm at that time of the month again...
2020-01-18T02:34:37 < jadew> cleaning the lab
2020-01-18T02:35:08 < BrainDamage> from your menstruation spills?
2020-01-18T02:35:14 < jadew> haha
2020-01-18T02:36:34 < jadew> I really don't know how to deal with the mess. The solution is clearly to put things back when you're done with them, but that seems like a waste of time because you might need them 5 minutes from now again.
2020-01-18T02:38:33 < BrainDamage> label things by the last time you used them
2020-01-18T02:38:45 < BrainDamage> then you'll know things you use frequently or not
2020-01-18T02:38:52 < BrainDamage> put away the rest
2020-01-18T02:39:35 < jadew> so whenever I use something I timestamp it?
2020-01-18T02:40:08 < BrainDamage> timestamp might be overkill
2020-01-18T02:40:14 < BrainDamage> just take coloured adhesives
2020-01-18T02:40:30 < BrainDamage> one per day of the week
2020-01-18T02:40:45 < BrainDamage> if something lingers for more than a week, it's useless
2020-01-18T02:41:05 < jadew> that could work
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2020-01-18T02:46:57 < Laurenceb> Trust the 5 Year Dishwasher Warranty Plan
2020-01-18T02:46:57 < Laurenceb> #WWG1WGA
2020-01-18T02:48:46 < Laurenceb> muh dishwasher freedomz
2020-01-18T02:50:04 < Laurenceb> anyone got any dinosaur porn?
2020-01-18T02:51:01 < BrainDamage> I wonder if Laurenceb got heavy metal poisoning and we're just assisting to his slow mental decline
2020-01-18T02:53:15 < Laurenceb> It's a sign from Q!
2020-01-18T02:53:25 < Laurenceb> #MAGA
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2020-01-18T04:14:41 < dongs> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mhrkdHshb3E in 10 hours
2020-01-18T04:20:10 < englishman> qyx: no
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2020-01-18T04:32:35 < specing> dongs: what in 10 hours?
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2020-01-18T04:55:17 < dongs> specing: that link
2020-01-18T04:55:26 < dongs> what the fuck is wrong wiht gnu mcu eclipse
2020-01-18T04:55:40 < dongs> why these faggots telling me to install some fucking CLI PACKAGE MANAGER to install fucking compilers on windows lmao
2020-01-18T04:56:10 < specing> dongs: well m8 you have two options here
2020-01-18T04:56:19 < specing> 1) Use PROFESSIONAL compilers
2020-01-18T04:56:33 < specing> 2) Switch to GNU+Linux and use GNU toolchains
2020-01-18T04:56:35 < dongs> yeah where's professional riscv compiler
2020-01-18T04:57:11 < specing> riscv isn't professional
2020-01-18T04:58:27 < dongs> truth
2020-01-18T04:59:32 < dongs> https://xpack.github.io/riscv-none-embed-gcc/install/ like what
2020-01-18T04:59:37 < dongs> fucking opensors niggers
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2020-01-18T05:01:05 < dongs> thank fuck this xpack is just a zip
2020-01-18T05:01:06 < specing> lol
2020-01-18T05:01:08 < dongs> that i can unzip manually
2020-01-18T05:01:12 < dongs> without installing this opensores niggerware
2020-01-18T05:01:27 < dongs> at least they didnt use fucking tar + xzip or whatever
2020-01-18T05:01:34 < specing> lol
2020-01-18T05:01:34 < dongs> cuz then I'd just shift-delthe whole thing
2020-01-18T05:04:40 < specing> you really have open sores, dongs
2020-01-18T05:04:44 < specing> I feeel bad for you :)
2020-01-18T05:05:09 < dongs> allright. fixed the build
2020-01-18T05:05:13 < dongs> now to see if it still flashes
2020-01-18T05:06:39 < dongs> yep
2020-01-18T05:06:40 < dongs> ncioe
2020-01-18T05:06:40 < dongs> ok
2020-01-18T05:09:20 < dongs> what hte fuck is wrong wiht shithub
2020-01-18T05:09:32 < dongs> i clone a project that references something as "git submodule" wahtver the nigger ufck that is
2020-01-18T05:09:36 < dongs> and that folder is just empty
2020-01-18T05:09:40 < dongs> the fuck a nigga supposed to do
2020-01-18T05:09:42 < dongs> god damn
2020-01-18T05:09:43 < dongs> fucking useless shit
2020-01-18T05:10:11 < dongs> imagine having this much trouble making shit work if I was developing for windows
2020-01-18T05:10:17 < dongs> there'd never be any quality software made
2020-01-18T05:10:24 < dongs> people would spend entire lives trying to figure out fucking toolchains and shit
2020-01-18T05:10:31 < dongs> and how to write hte best makefile
2020-01-18T05:36:57 < dongs> hmm so lol, this opensores riscv shit fails to compile in O0, haha. and of course it fails in some faggot inline asm shit
2020-01-18T05:37:15 < Laurenceb> https://standup4brexit.com/wp-content/uploads/2019/11/EJJ0NhzXkAAWQKg-300x166.jpg
2020-01-18T05:37:36 < dongs> why would paki opinion matter
2020-01-18T05:37:37 < dongs> oh, right
2020-01-18T05:37:40 < dongs> uk is like 90% pakis now
2020-01-18T05:37:53 < dongs> soon Laurence/b/ will be a minority
2020-01-18T05:37:58 < dongs> by soon i mean, already
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2020-01-18T06:19:42 < dongs> god damn what absolute fucking opensores douchebaggery
2020-01-18T06:23:59 < Cracki> the right makes the mistake of accepting the left's frame (diversity is strength)
2020-01-18T06:24:21 < Cracki> or that 100% diversity means 0% you know who
2020-01-18T06:25:22 < Cracki> related https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/pressure-ulcers-applying-all-our-health/pressure-ulcers-applying-all-our-health
2020-01-18T06:26:39 < Cracki> notice when they cry for tolerance and when they gulag you. fighting honorably is wasted on them.
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2020-01-18T07:33:54 < Cracki> plop plop https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZPUKWh-V7OU
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2020-01-18T10:38:11 < dongs> hmm
2020-01-18T10:38:18 < dongs> my interrupts on riscv arent happening
2020-01-18T10:38:23 < dongs> time to get some tea and think why
2020-01-18T10:43:41 < dongs> oh gay.
2020-01-18T10:43:43 < dongs> they're happening
2020-01-18T10:43:45 < dongs> i just never checked
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2020-01-18T11:51:45 < jly> yo Steffanx
2020-01-18T11:54:20 < Steffanx> Hi bro
2020-01-18T11:58:43 < PaulFertser> My nilfs is damaged. On a laptop I can't communicate with without serial console. And no ethernet too. And no support from major OSes. Not sure for how much longer I can afford being such an oddball.
2020-01-18T11:59:50 < jly> what is a nilfs
2020-01-18T12:00:15 < PaulFertser> log-structured filesystem
2020-01-18T12:00:25 < PaulFertser> Supposed to be very cool because it "snapshots" everything all the time.
2020-01-18T12:00:40 < PaulFertser> And you can mark a permanent snapshot, then it won't be garbage-collected.
2020-01-18T12:00:58 < PaulFertser> I used this feature, like, once or twice when I accidentally deleted something...
2020-01-18T12:01:33 < Steffanx> Lol PaulFertser 
2020-01-18T12:02:47 < PaulFertser> I mean I can communicate with it normally when it's fully booted. But talking to u-boot requires to attach to its UART.
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2020-01-18T12:13:27 < dongs> doesn't sounds like its 'very cool' if it doesnt fucking work
2020-01-18T12:13:30 < dongs> or trashes your data
2020-01-18T12:13:47 < dongs> sounds like opensores trash
2020-01-18T12:15:11 < PaulFertser> dongs: I trashed my data myself. Because of a stupid issue with eMMC (running proprietary buggy firmware!) that I workarounded with a smart "dd" command every now and then.
2020-01-18T12:55:12 < jpa-> snapshottin is cool and i'd expect nilfs to be ok also, but neither is a substitute for backups
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2020-01-18T13:13:14 < antto> https://i.imgur.com/9ggO8Dz.jpg
2020-01-18T13:16:03 < Steffanx> Ty
2020-01-18T13:19:56 < Steffanx> Should buy a 2x7 header next time antto  
2020-01-18T13:20:28 < antto> yeah
2020-01-18T13:20:38 < antto> i tried to cheat but i f*cked up
2020-01-18T13:22:47 < PaulFertser> jpa-: indeed.
2020-01-18T13:23:08 < PaulFertser> But the proprietarry buggy firmware in eMMC certainly contributed to my problem!
2020-01-18T13:23:31 < PaulFertser> Every now and then it just tells me that certain sector is inaccessible. Until I overwrite it.
2020-01-18T13:23:46 < PaulFertser> I know NAND is not reliable but it's not _that_ unreliable!
2020-01-18T13:25:29 < antto> Steffanx the white blurry blob there is cat tail
2020-01-18T13:26:36 < Steffanx> What kind if "laptop" is this?
2020-01-18T13:26:57 < Steffanx> Mr PaulFertser  
2020-01-18T13:27:09 < PaulFertser> Steffanx: toshiba ac100
2020-01-18T13:42:58 < Steffanx> Heh, expected something obscure
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2020-01-18T15:24:51 < dongs> > The Device has considerable traction in the free and open source software community as it is possible to replace the pre-installed Android with a proper Linux system
2020-01-18T15:24:55 < dongs> disgusting.
2020-01-18T15:24:56 < dongs> "proper"
2020-01-18T15:28:48 < PaulFertser> Android doesn't seem to be a nice fit for a general purpose OS on a laptop without touch screen, no matter how you approach it.
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2020-01-18T16:02:59 < specing> why would you buy a new plasticky android laptop when you can buy an old thinkpad for less?
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2020-01-18T16:05:47 < PaulFertser> specing: ac100 is far from being new. And it's ARM based, more energy efficient. Very lightweight. It made sense back then.
2020-01-18T16:06:28 < PaulFertser> specing: and btw, I'd like to buy an old thinkpad but all ebay listings either do not ship to russia or the shipping costs about the same as the laptop itself. Why do you hate me, EU people?..
2020-01-18T16:06:32 < specing> > more energy efficient
2020-01-18T16:06:38 < specing> you mean much slower?
2020-01-18T16:06:42 < PaulFertser> That too
2020-01-18T16:07:11 < specing> PaulFertser: no old thinkpads being sold within russia?
2020-01-18T16:07:18 < PaulFertser> specing: they're sold for 2x the price :)
2020-01-18T16:07:33 < specing> heh
2020-01-18T16:07:44 < specing> In my EU coutnry it is the same
2020-01-18T16:07:50 < specing> so I buy them off ebay.de
2020-01-18T16:07:53 < PaulFertser> But you have EU wide shipping.
2020-01-18T16:07:57 < PaulFertser> From ebay
2020-01-18T16:08:02 < PaulFertser> For like 5 bucks.
2020-01-18T16:08:05 < specing> nah
2020-01-18T16:08:12 < specing> thinkpad from germany is 20 eur
2020-01-18T16:08:17 < specing> in shipping
2020-01-18T16:08:36 < PaulFertser> Well, that I'd pay...
2020-01-18T16:08:40 < specing> DHL is a rip offff
2020-01-18T16:08:48 < PaulFertser> Indeed
2020-01-18T16:08:49 < specing> damn germans own the whole EU
2020-01-18T16:09:03 < PaulFertser> I'd like to have T500 with W500 panel.
2020-01-18T16:09:37 < specing> PaulFertser: if you are interested in ARM, have you looked at pinebookpro?
2020-01-18T16:09:59 < specing> only 4 gig ram though, that is 2006 level in x86 terms
2020-01-18T16:10:29 < PaulFertser> specing: yep, I thought about it. But I was told it shitty mechanically. And also I'm afraid to deal with yet another closed source embeddedcontroller IC, as all of them suck in different ways :(
2020-01-18T16:10:59 < specing> Yeah, I'm not excited about them either
2020-01-18T16:11:07 < specing> but at least it is "GNU+LInux" from the factory
2020-01-18T16:11:27 < PaulFertser> T500 should be fast enough with proper CPU and memory.
2020-01-18T16:11:49 < specing> I have 3 T400 and the schematics, should last me until raptor starts making power laptops
2020-01-18T16:12:08 < PaulFertser> Cool!
2020-01-18T16:12:10 < specing> I should buy some x200, too
2020-01-18T16:12:32 < PaulFertser> What do you think about those chinese retrofit boards?
2020-01-18T16:12:43 < PaulFertser> I can't remember the odd nme
2020-01-18T16:12:43 < specing> they don't do Libreboot
2020-01-18T16:12:47 < specing> so I'm not interested
2020-01-18T16:12:59  * PaulFertser too
2020-01-18T16:13:09 < specing> 51nb is the name of the forum
2020-01-18T16:13:11 < Steffanx> No AdaBoot?
2020-01-18T16:13:42 < specing> Steffanx: Coreboot's intel gfx init is writen in Ada, and Libreboot is a distro of Coreboot.
2020-01-18T16:13:58 < PaulFertser> Steffanx: the problem is with AMT/ME that you can't fully disable anyhow. Plus modern Intel CPUs require some proprietary code to do DRAM training etc. For no fucking reason.
2020-01-18T16:14:11 < effractur> PaulFertser: patents actually
2020-01-18T16:14:20 < effractur> PaulFertser: but the dram stuff leaked out some time ago
2020-01-18T16:14:27 < PaulFertser> effractur: software is not patentable in sane countries
2020-01-18T16:14:28 < effractur> so if you know the correct people you can get access to it
2020-01-18T16:14:43 < PaulFertser> Will it get included in coreboot upstream?
2020-01-18T16:14:50 < effractur> no because it is leaked intel source
2020-01-18T16:15:12 < PaulFertser> Is it that hard to write specs based on code and clean-room it?
2020-01-18T16:15:25 < effractur> but the whole dram stuff is quite filled with patents and trademarks / licences
2020-01-18T16:15:45 < effractur> but a clean room could be possible 
2020-01-18T16:16:15 < PaulFertser> patents are not applicable to code, so coreboot can't care about patents. Trademarks can just be avoided, that's the easy part, just do not reuse any name that looks like it can be a trademark.
2020-01-18T16:16:56 < effractur> sadly there are a lot of patents on the algortims to do the dram trainigs
2020-01-18T16:17:18 < PaulFertser> Al
2020-01-18T16:17:22 < PaulFertser> Math is not patentable
2020-01-18T16:17:27 < effractur> it is in the us
2020-01-18T16:17:49 < PaulFertser> That's irrelevant for an international free software project I thought?
2020-01-18T16:19:13 < effractur> noclue
2020-01-18T16:19:41 < Steffanx> specing: Nah, wikipedia tells me its mainly C . And the Ada stuff is hardly used.
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2020-01-18T16:20:29 < effractur> but afaik is there no public / opensource ddr4 timing training code
2020-01-18T16:23:59 < Steffanx> Time to get on to it effractur ;)
2020-01-18T16:24:06 < specing> Steffanx: I did say that only the gfx init part is Ada
2020-01-18T16:24:14 < specing> and that is new code, old one is in C
2020-01-18T16:24:24 < Steffanx> oh, yes you did
2020-01-18T16:24:49 < specing> I think Libreboot uses C one, the new one is only for newer chips (?)
2020-01-18T16:30:11 < specing> it doesen't matter though. Ada is used in serious software, which, along with being closed source is often also top secret
2020-01-18T16:34:52 < englishman> how do you know it's ada then
2020-01-18T16:37:22 < englishman> of all the information able to be leaked about a top secret program, the language it was programmed in seems to be the most useless detail
2020-01-18T16:47:32 < specing> englishman: it is often a design requirement
2020-01-18T16:47:55 < specing> e.g. the DoD up until 10 or so years ago mandated that Ada be used on all contracted projects
2020-01-18T16:50:46 < englishman> even the HDL?
2020-01-18T16:52:00 < specing> englishman: I don't know there, maybe they mandated VHDL, which is a derivative of Ada.
2020-01-18T16:55:03 < englishman> that makes sense
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2020-01-18T18:04:48 < bitmask> woo, batteries have arrived
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2020-01-18T20:23:57 < Steffanx> Make up your mind Laurenceb
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2020-01-18T20:52:51 < rajkosto> are there any usb3 hubs that let usb2/usb1 devices go over SS lines to the host
2020-01-18T20:58:19 < qyx> yes
2020-01-18T20:58:31 < qyx> someone mentioned them recently
2020-01-18T21:01:03 < jpa-> VL671
2020-01-18T21:05:12 < AndrevS> Oh my I found a bug in the HAL USB driver (F1) 
2020-01-18T21:07:03 < jpa-> it accidentally works?
2020-01-18T21:08:04 < AndrevS> The bug only triggers when receiving a lot of data (as in, larger then one packet) 
2020-01-18T21:08:27 < AndrevS> And when I actually look at the reported received size, it will tell me the size of the last received packet. 
2020-01-18T21:09:16 < AndrevS> When receiving a multi packet transfer, the interrupt handler will increase the amount of data received, and the pointer to the buffer, and call the receive function again
2020-01-18T21:09:31 < AndrevS> and the receive function resets the amount of received bytes to 0 
2020-01-18T21:11:11 < AndrevS> I'm writing my own high level implementation, which can be used in stead of ST's middleware, but it still rests on the HAL for the actual communication. 
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2020-01-18T21:18:36 < Cracki> please please write about this in the st community forum. then at least it's documented. they take their sweet time working on other bug reports such as the broken newlib/freertos integration of cubemx
2020-01-18T21:21:25 < qyx> who uses F1 in 2020
2020-01-18T21:22:09 < Cracki> one would think that whoever develops their various HALs would talk to each other... so the same of similar bugs show up in HALs for other than F1
2020-01-18T21:22:21 < Cracki> (if peripheral allows you to make the mistake)
2020-01-18T21:22:49 < englishman> qyx: libero is the actel/microsemi fpga suite
2020-01-18T21:23:07 < englishman> it does direct keil project export for the arm SoCs
2020-01-18T21:23:09 < englishman> so fuckin cool
2020-01-18T21:25:02 < Steffanx> fuck keil.
2020-01-18T21:25:10 < qyx> now I am more interested in doing LoRaWAN on a stm32
2020-01-18T21:25:19 < Steffanx> i mean: fuck µVision
2020-01-18T21:25:19 < AndrevS> I've submitted a bug report on github 
2020-01-18T21:26:10 < Cracki> let's see if that does anything :>
2020-01-18T21:26:20 < englishman> how so steffs
2020-01-18T21:27:57 < AndrevS> Yeah... how ST has a HAL for each series, and the amount of code they have in common. I mean, looking at how libopencm3 has implemented only the code that differs, and shares the rest. 
2020-01-18T21:28:58 < Steffanx> because it sucks arse englishman. especially the "Project" file list/manager
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2020-01-18T21:49:08 < bitmask> how would a MOT affect a nearby pcb with another transformer? its the magnetic flux and stuff confined?
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2020-01-18T22:47:09 < Steffanx> so can you still get out of your house englishman?
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2020-01-18T22:47:28 < englishman> of course
2020-01-18T22:47:33 < englishman> the snowstorm was 2000km away
2020-01-18T22:47:58 < englishman> that said:
2020-01-18T22:48:02 < englishman> 4 lane highway https://i.redd.it/7vhc7qwjjkb41.jpg
2020-01-18T22:48:11 < englishman> suburb https://i.redd.it/hhdsizf4fkb41.jpg
2020-01-18T22:48:44 < englishman> firefighters responding on foot https://i.redd.it/07l75y28ekb41.jpg
2020-01-18T22:51:48 < Steffanx> oh i recall seeing a vid from closer to you too, but perhaps canada is larger than i think it is :P
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2020-01-18T22:53:38 < Laurenceb> oh sheet
2020-01-18T22:53:58 < Laurenceb> Nephewb is dressed as a Jedi master
2020-01-18T22:54:05 < Laurenceb> soy wars intensify
2020-01-18T22:54:58 < englishman> my driveway is nearly as long as your country
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2020-01-18T22:57:39 < Steffanx> how is is that nephew mr Laurenceb?
2020-01-18T22:57:45 < Steffanx> *old
2020-01-18T22:57:55 < Laurenceb> coming up to 6 months
2020-01-18T22:57:55 < Steffanx> i mean. Whats wrong dressing up when you're 10?
2020-01-18T22:58:02 < Steffanx> oh hm :P
2020-01-18T22:58:13 < Laurenceb> his mum is a major larping autist
2020-01-18T22:58:44 < Laurenceb> she has dressed up as the princess from soy wars or something
2020-01-18T22:58:46 < Steffanx> must be a family thing then
2020-01-18T22:58:51 < Laurenceb> I dont know what they are all called
2020-01-18T22:59:09 < Steffanx> Leia i guess
2020-01-18T22:59:23 < Laurenceb> Princess "we rehashed a centuries old pantomime and called it a movie"
2020-01-18T22:59:29 < Steffanx> Did you ever dress up as that hairy meatball?
2020-01-18T23:00:08 < Laurenceb> no
2020-01-18T23:00:10 < Laurenceb> https://www.reddit.com/r/4chan/comments/7y8kzq/anon_predicts_solo_a_soy_wars_story/
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2020-01-18T23:08:30 < Steffanx> How many telsa charging points are there on you drive way englishman?
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2020-01-18T23:31:12 < bitmask> now thats a professional cold pull! going from black to white and all that remained was that tiny spec
2020-01-18T23:31:12 < bitmask> https://i.imgur.com/Db7EAtc.png
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2020-01-18T23:54:24 < qyx> weeehee
2020-01-18T23:54:27 < qyx> englishman: https://www.st.com/en/embedded-software/i-cube-lrwan.html
2020-01-18T23:54:33 < qyx> for your pleasure
2020-01-18T23:54:38 < qyx> much stm32 lora experience
--- Day changed Sun Jan 19 2020
2020-01-19T00:19:38 < bitmask> hmm what to work on
2020-01-19T00:22:34 < qyx> L071 and L051/L031 have different pinouts for QFN32 :S
2020-01-19T00:24:29 < qyx> ok STM32L412 is the same price, fuk L0
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2020-01-19T00:37:19 < englishman> qyx: isn't that old? oh maybe not lorawan
2020-01-19T00:37:43 < englishman> hmm no pretty sure I used a stm32f0 lorawan devboard a few years ago
2020-01-19T00:38:12 < englishman> there's some lorawan module with f0 and semtech inside
2020-01-19T00:38:16 < englishman> from st
2020-01-19T00:38:16 < qyx> it is not for f0
2020-01-19T00:38:27 < qyx> hm, they say L0, L1 and L4
2020-01-19T00:38:30 < qyx> maybe something newer
2020-01-19T00:38:38 < englishman> something like that , m0
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2020-01-19T01:02:27 < jly> good morning Steffan
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2020-01-19T01:35:41 < kakiho> do you like poker?
2020-01-19T01:37:35 < jly> hi kakiho 
2020-01-19T01:37:53 < kakiho> hello jyly
2020-01-19T01:38:06 < jly> gambling is for niggers 
2020-01-19T01:38:35 < jly> I didn't mind playing poker when I was a child
2020-01-19T01:41:01 < kakiho> played poker for first time yesterday
2020-01-19T01:41:07 < kakiho> like propper play
2020-01-19T01:41:17 < jly> yeah
2020-01-19T01:41:45 < jly> I think everyone plays the "texas hold 'em" variety now
2020-01-19T01:41:52 < jly> it's a much quicker game imo
2020-01-19T01:42:04 < jly> which is great as my attention span with any of this shit is about 2 minutes
2020-01-19T01:42:36 < kakiho> we played like 4hours
2020-01-19T01:43:28 < jly> yeah and that's it, i'm not sticking around for that long to maybe win $200 or so
2020-01-19T01:43:33 < jly> not worth my time
2020-01-19T01:43:42 < kakiho> guy who kept timer for increasing blinds had little amount of chips so he tampered the timer for an hour or so to stay in game
2020-01-19T01:43:56 < jly> yeah
2020-01-19T01:44:12 < jly> and that's great as there is always some dirty jew on the table like that
2020-01-19T01:44:38 < Cracki> kek
2020-01-19T01:45:54 < kakiho> he was also urged to check turn and river before others to see if he should fold
2020-01-19T01:46:05 < kakiho> he was successful once of twice
2020-01-19T01:46:09 < kakiho> or
2020-01-19T01:46:54 < kakiho> needless to say we had plenty to drink aside of poker
2020-01-19T01:47:47 < kakiho> it was fun
2020-01-19T01:49:25 < kakiho> I didnt win but I stayed in game most of the game
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2020-01-19T01:51:44 < zyp> IMO games like that are more fun without money involved
2020-01-19T01:53:03 < kakiho> we played with small money
2020-01-19T01:54:00 < zyp> thing is, money is either too small to make moeny a point at all, or big enough to take away from the fun
2020-01-19T02:02:40 < qyx> it is interesting I cannot find analog switch I/O group definitions for L412
2020-01-19T02:02:49 < qyx> neither in DS nor RM
2020-01-19T02:03:07 < zyp> find what?
2020-01-19T02:03:13 < qyx> there is some information in the TSC section
2020-01-19T02:03:18 < jly> I agree with that zyp, I enjoyed poker before the idea of money came into it.
2020-01-19T02:03:38 < qyx> most of stm32s have analog switch matrix
2020-01-19T02:04:05 < qyx> it is called either a "routing interfacve" or so
2020-01-19T02:04:25 < qyx> or simply analog switches
2020-01-19T02:04:25 < zyp> qyx, what analog switch are we talking about? is this touchsense stuff or unrelated or what?
2020-01-19T02:04:41 < qyx> yeah it is used by touchsense
2020-01-19T02:04:53 < zyp> but not part of it?
2020-01-19T02:05:00 < qyx> but the RM states that it can be used for other purposes too
2020-01-19T02:05:17 < zyp> is it kinda like the opamp/comparator stuff that some chips have?
2020-01-19T02:05:26 < zyp> (F3 mainly, AFAIK)
2020-01-19T02:05:49 < qyx> yes it is just glued on top of GPIO
2020-01-19T02:06:15 < qyx> and can be configured independently
2020-01-19T02:06:25 < zyp> what other chips have you seen this in?
2020-01-19T02:07:12 < qyx> hm L4 now, but I have commited code to locm3 for some other one
2020-01-19T02:07:19 < qyx> don't remember now
2020-01-19T02:07:59 < qyx> I assume all stm32 with touch support have them
2020-01-19T02:08:51 < qyx> you should even be able to reroute an AF configured gpio to some other one
2020-01-19T02:08:57 < qyx> in the same switch group
2020-01-19T02:09:07 < qyx> and now, thats the question
2020-01-19T02:09:14 < zyp> huh, never seen that
2020-01-19T02:09:35 < qyx> which gpio is in which group
2020-01-19T02:09:48 < zyp> apart from some of the low pin parts that muxes multiple gpios to one physical pin
2020-01-19T02:12:34 < qyx> https://github.com/libopencm3/libopencm3/blob/master/include/libopencm3/stm32/l1/ri.h
2020-01-19T02:13:01 < zyp> I'm looking at L0 RM now, since I have that around
2020-01-19T02:13:32 < qyx> oh we discussed the thing in the past https://gitter.im/libopencm3/discuss/archives/2016/01/26
2020-01-19T02:13:55 < zyp> L052 doesn't seem to have a separate RI peripheral, as far as I can see those regs are part of the TSC periph
2020-01-19T02:14:07 < zyp> I assume the same might be true for L412
2020-01-19T02:14:51 < qyx> seems so
2020-01-19T02:15:03 < zyp> there's a TSC_IOASCR that looks equivalent to your RI_ASCR
2020-01-19T02:16:08 < qyx> a bit of context: I ak goimg to abuse it to connect shunt resistors across photodiodes
2020-01-19T02:16:58 < qyx> OR discomnect it and connect an energy harvesting boost dc/dc
2020-01-19T02:18:43 < zyp> hmm
2020-01-19T02:19:38 < zyp> L1 being older than L0 and L4, I guess they found out it was more sensible to combine it with TSC
2020-01-19T02:20:04 < zyp> if that was the only intended use for it in the first place
2020-01-19T02:22:37 < qyx> I concluded the same
2020-01-19T02:23:03 < qyx> but still, I cannot find any table of touchsense groups
2020-01-19T02:24:14 < qyx> also a bonus question, how much photovoltaic current should I expect from a 0805 red LED?
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2020-01-19T03:04:06 < Cracki> til: one 18650 (~3Ah 3.7V) is about 40 kilojoules, which can heat 200 grams by 47 kelvin (if zero losses). self heating coffee mug anyone?
2020-01-19T03:04:18 < Cracki> keeps it warm anyway
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2020-01-19T04:07:38 < fenugrec> anyone here using the chiny SX1278 "30dBm" lora transceivers ?
2020-01-19T04:41:43 < jadew> I went bald today
2020-01-19T04:41:48 < jadew> (cut all my hair)
2020-01-19T04:42:36 < jadew> wife paused when I asked her what she thinks and my kid started crying
2020-01-19T04:43:41 < jadew> I like it tho, it was much quicker
2020-01-19T04:46:31 < kakiho> fenugrec: lurencer
2020-01-19T05:01:36 < mawk> lol jadew 
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2020-01-19T05:23:07 < Cracki> guys... avr-libc has FDEV_SETUP_STREAM which creates a FILE structure with custom read and write function pointers, so I can have a "file" to print into and read from that's actually the uart or SPI or whatever I want that has a read and write call
2020-01-19T05:23:32 < Cracki> I didn't see anything like that for newlib. all I find for newlib is __io_putchar
2020-01-19T05:24:13 < Cracki> I don't necessarily want to retarget stdin/stdout, I'm interested in having another file descriptor for that
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2020-01-19T05:30:41 < fenugrec> Cracki, I vaguely recall something about reimplementing write() and read() and you handle according to file handle (stdout/stderr/etc)
2020-01-19T05:32:17 < Cracki> just found https://sourceware.org/newlib/libc.html#fopencookie
2020-01-19T05:32:25 < Cracki> sounds like what I might want
2020-01-19T05:32:29 < fenugrec> i.e. switch (file) {case stdin: .... etc}
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2020-01-19T05:32:57 < fenugrec> probably better yea
2020-01-19T05:35:24 < Cracki> that was nearly impossible to google for. I had to remember that googling is inferior to looking for official docs and skimming until I find what I want.
2020-01-19T05:50:12 < Cracki> great, stdio.h is not enough to find fopencookie... I hope it's not such a new function that st's bundled newlib doesn't have it
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2020-01-19T05:54:15 < Cracki> needs _GNU_SOURCE, all good
2020-01-19T05:59:25 < kakiho> st's bundled newlib alert
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2020-01-19T06:00:01 < kakiho> heap implementation still broken?
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2020-01-19T06:19:49 < Cracki> heh, it's fully buffered, i.e. sending newline doesn't flush. setvbuf helps... but I think it might reallocate the buffer
2020-01-19T06:20:14 < Cracki> kakiho, afaik yes, I'm subscribed to the thread on their forums where people regularly throw them insults for being such lazy fucks
2020-01-19T06:20:23 < Cracki> apparently they have bigger fires to fight
2020-01-19T06:20:53 < Cracki> I'm not using freertos (or any rtos) on this project at the moment
2020-01-19T06:33:27 < Cracki> til: ITM_ReceiveChar, wonder if that's as easy to use as sendchar
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2020-01-19T10:21:09 < qyx> from STM32L412xx errata: 2.5.2 Wrong ADC result if conversion done late after calibration or previous conversion
2020-01-19T10:21:14 < qyx> The result of an ADC conversion done more than 1 ms later than the previous ADC conversion or ADC calibration
2020-01-19T10:21:17 < qyx> might be incorrect.
2020-01-19T10:22:01 < qyx> workaround is Perform two consecutive ADC conversions in single, scan or continuous mode. Reject the result of the first conversion and only keep the result of the second.
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2020-01-19T12:26:23 < jly> better get to keiling crt
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2020-01-19T12:47:58 < Steffanx> No dont let him do thay
2020-01-19T12:48:02 < Steffanx> t
2020-01-19T12:48:37 < jly> good evening steffan
2020-01-19T12:58:38 < Steffanx> Hello sir
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2020-01-19T15:39:15 < doomba> this chan is full of usart keilers
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2020-01-19T17:09:18 < Thorn> T - 20 min https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mhrkdHshb3E
2020-01-19T17:12:32 < Thorn> stream is live
2020-01-19T17:12:53 < dongs> indeed
2020-01-19T17:14:23 < specing> Thorn: T-20 min of what?
2020-01-19T17:14:28 < specing> Musk?
2020-01-19T17:14:45 < Steffanx> Yes, isnt it going to fail on purpose today?
2020-01-19T17:15:00 < Thorn> Crew Dragon IFA
2020-01-19T17:15:50 < Steffanx> I was surprised you didnt anounce it yesterday Thorn :P
2020-01-19T17:16:01 < dongs> it was cancelled yesterday.
2020-01-19T17:16:23 < Steffanx> Yes, it was.
2020-01-19T17:16:33 < Steffanx> They didnt even start a countdown?
2020-01-19T17:17:31 < Thorn> countdown is started hours before launch
2020-01-19T17:21:40 < dongs> > 27 ft
2020-01-19T17:21:46 < dongs> fucking retarded americans
2020-01-19T17:25:58 < Thorn> btw afaik launch escape systems have caused more emergencies than they prevented through the history of spaceflight
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2020-01-19T17:32:52 < englishman> SpaceX works in metric and converts all units to retard shit for retarded American viewing public
2020-01-19T17:37:49 < englishman> was that on purpose
2020-01-19T17:37:58 < englishman> guess they couldn't land the rocket?
2020-01-19T17:38:41 < dongs> they were gonna blow it up anyway on purpose
2020-01-19T17:40:30 < Thorn> englishman: I understand the damage and/or impulse from escape motors makes recovery impossible
2020-01-19T17:42:01 < englishman> cool
2020-01-19T17:42:08 < englishman> that was spectacular
2020-01-19T17:42:34 < englishman> should have done that for Apollo 1 instead of murdering all those astronauts
2020-01-19T17:42:41 < specing> Thorn: I wonder, was the boom planned?
2020-01-19T17:42:53 < englishman> by using sparky relays in a pure oxygen environment
2020-01-19T17:43:27 < Thorn> specing: dunno, maybe they commanded the FTS
2020-01-19T17:43:47 < Thorn> they said they weren't planning to do that before the launch
2020-01-19T17:43:56 < specing> FTS?
2020-01-19T17:44:12 < Thorn> flight termination system
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2020-01-19T17:46:50 < englishman> meanwhile blue oridongs can barely take off and hover
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2020-01-19T18:33:44 < Cracki> the dude said the explosion was not unexpected
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2020-01-19T18:34:11 < Cracki> I love how you could hardly tell from the camera that the capsule hit water
2020-01-19T18:39:40 < specing> I am saddened that they didnt save the booster
2020-01-19T18:39:45 < specing> step up your game, musk
2020-01-19T18:41:28 < Cracki> judging from the disappointed sounds of the audience, they probably didn't plan destruction
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2020-01-19T19:08:36 < Cracki> heh, even says they fully expected it to blow up
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2020-01-19T19:18:54 < specing> Cracki: just to save face
2020-01-19T19:19:03 < specing> I expected more of spacex
2020-01-19T19:19:33 < specing> they should have mounted a special nosecone under the dragon, so the booster stays aerodynamic
2020-01-19T19:19:57 < Cracki> he said the capsule commands the first stage to shut down. that may include more than just shutting off the engines... so it's conceivable that it stopped watching and controlling something critical too
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2020-01-19T19:22:46 < Cracki> ah, i see what you mean
2020-01-19T19:23:36 < Steffanx> When i hear the female narrator i would say she sounds like she didnt expect it to happen. "Big flash.. might be the falcon 9 breaking up"
2020-01-19T19:23:39 < specing> What if the first stage does not respond?
2020-01-19T19:23:41 < Cracki> would be nice if the first stage could learn to restart and stabilize itself when it's away from the capsule
2020-01-19T19:24:00 < specing> it knows how to restart
2020-01-19T19:24:08 < Cracki> it just wasn't allowed to!
2020-01-19T19:24:10 < specing> and how to fly back
2020-01-19T19:24:14 < specing> and how to land
2020-01-19T19:24:19 < Cracki> obviously
2020-01-19T19:24:26 < specing> I'm angry at musk
2020-01-19T19:24:42 < Steffanx> Yeah, we should go in small EVs to the moon and mars right?
2020-01-19T19:24:47 < specing> he blew up a perfectly good booster
2020-01-19T19:24:58 < specing> could have reused it a few dozen times more
2020-01-19T19:24:59 < Cracki> tax payer paid for it
2020-01-19T19:25:27 < specing> Cracki: I don't think "first stage blowing up" was part of this test's requirements
2020-01-19T19:25:46 < Cracki> not requirements but they certainly didn't care about saving it
2020-01-19T19:26:03 < Cracki> also those things usually separate higher up, less air
2020-01-19T19:26:08 < specing> Anyway, I am also wondering why they don't use stages till failure, they can just use the 5-times reused ones to deliver inexpensive crap to the ISS
2020-01-19T19:26:10 < specing> like food and water
2020-01-19T19:26:16 < Cracki> and they come down (and move against air) butt first
2020-01-19T19:26:30 < specing> yes
2020-01-19T19:26:38 < specing> hence why I said >they should have mounted a special nosecone under the dragon, so the booster stays aerodynamic
2020-01-19T19:26:50 < Cracki> some of that cargo is very valuable in terms of recreating it
2020-01-19T19:27:00 < Cracki> so it costs time as well
2020-01-19T19:27:02 < specing> huh?
2020-01-19T19:27:12 < specing> water?
2020-01-19T19:27:12 < BrainDamage> every failure they broadcast is not just an economical failure but a political failure too
2020-01-19T19:27:16 < specing> food?
2020-01-19T19:27:20 < Cracki> experiments
2020-01-19T19:27:28 < specing> you are not listening at all
2020-01-19T19:27:31 < Cracki> do you think CRS consists of water and food only?
2020-01-19T19:27:49 < specing>  > they can just use the 5-times reused ones to deliver inexpensive crap to the ISS
2020-01-19T19:27:50 < Cracki> yeah sure, they could do crapshoots for some, but they need good rockets too :P
2020-01-19T19:27:55 < specing> I said inexpensive crap, not experiments
2020-01-19T19:28:16 < Cracki> so you're saying they should delay cargo to save money
2020-01-19T19:28:28 < Cracki> they would laugh at you. they have the money
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2020-01-19T19:32:08 < Cracki> I wonder what probability calculations they do... by now an unproven first stage might be riskier than a stage with one or two launches behind it
2020-01-19T19:32:15 < qyx> what was the kaboom
2020-01-19T19:32:17 < qyx> intentional?
2020-01-19T19:32:22 < Cracki> expected.
2020-01-19T19:32:36 < qyx> and were there people in the dragon?
2020-01-19T19:32:41 < Cracki> no, dummies
2020-01-19T19:32:44 < qyx> oh
2020-01-19T19:32:55 < Cracki> also no life support and nothing of value they could afford to swap out for dumb mass
2020-01-19T19:33:32 < specing> no life support?
2020-01-19T19:33:39 < specing> Isn't that also a critical system to test?
2020-01-19T19:33:45 < Cracki> nasa clip said this is the "final exam" and the two astronauts who will likely launch soon are very involved
2020-01-19T19:34:02 < Cracki> don't hold me to specifics. I can't remember what I heard 5 minutes ago
2020-01-19T19:34:36 < Cracki> for some unstated reason they removed the cover panels on the inside of everything, and they said they removed *some* systems and replaced them with weight
2020-01-19T19:34:50 < Cracki> also no control panels at all... dummies will have to play with themselves
2020-01-19T19:35:11 < Cracki> stated and shown here in the first half https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mhrkdHshb3E
2020-01-19T19:35:24 < Cracki> around minute 11
2020-01-19T19:36:37 < Cracki> oh, dummies insensate, seats feel the butt
2020-01-19T19:37:34 < Cracki> indeed they took the life support out
2020-01-19T19:38:03 < Cracki> maybe they have enough data on all of that already and someone did want to save money
2020-01-19T19:41:56 < Cracki> yt comment says that booster flew 4 times before
2020-01-19T19:46:50 < Cracki> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Falcon_9_booster_B1046
2020-01-19T19:48:21 < Cracki> oh, flew 4 times in total ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
2020-01-19T19:48:39 < qyx> so a red LED generates about 0.2uA of photocurrent when illuminated with my 100lm torch
2020-01-19T19:49:01 < Cracki> but at what distance
2020-01-19T19:49:03 < qyx> someone on the interwebs said a generic 5mm red LED can generate up to 20uA
2020-01-19T19:49:10 < qyx> at 10cm
2020-01-19T19:49:13 < Cracki> because larger area
2020-01-19T19:49:26 < qyx> yeah but still
2020-01-19T19:49:37 < Cracki> and who knows what else
2020-01-19T19:49:58 < Cracki> so what's that for, want to build your own camera sensor from discrete leds?
2020-01-19T19:50:09  * qyx laughs
2020-01-19T19:50:17 < Cracki> that's a yes
2020-01-19T19:50:17 < qyx> old
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2020-01-19T19:50:54 < Cracki> uh, they kept that booster in storage for over a year
2020-01-19T19:51:04 < qyx> Cracki: https://www.researchgate.net/publication/246545045_The_Photo-Electronic_Erosion_Pin_PEEP_automatic_erosion_monitoring_system_principles_and_applications+
2020-01-19T19:51:13 < qyx> meh, delete the + at the end
2020-01-19T19:51:27 < qyx> heh it works even with it
2020-01-19T19:52:38 < Cracki> > acrylic tube which contains an array of upward-looking photovoltaic cells
2020-01-19T19:54:07 < Cracki> for that analog voltage to mean much, individual cells would have to have a steady voltage above a minimum illumination
2020-01-19T19:54:21 < qyx> thats the original design, my goal is 0603 LEDs, energy harvesting + supercap, LoRa radio
2020-01-19T19:54:22 < Cracki> say overcast day
2020-01-19T19:54:59 < Cracki> so what, planning to measure all photoreceptors individually? that'd make for nice data
2020-01-19T19:55:07 < qyx> no, too much hassle
2020-01-19T19:55:15 < qyx> measure by groups of few
2020-01-19T19:55:36 < qyx> and use the top and bottom groups or single LEDs to compensate
2020-01-19T19:55:50 < Cracki> ah, they normalize for ambient light level. good
2020-01-19T19:56:08 < mawk> hi
2020-01-19T19:56:17 < qyx> but still no worky in vegetation
2020-01-19T19:57:22 < qyx> so if a LED generates <1uA in a cludy day, it is not worth it to do any harvesting
2020-01-19T19:57:46 < mawk> you use the leds as photovoltatic cells ?
2020-01-19T19:58:00 < qyx> as photoreceptors
2020-01-19T19:58:08 < mawk> ah
2020-01-19T19:58:11 < mawk> just for measure
2020-01-19T19:58:12 < Cracki> well stick a real PV panel in it, pocket calculator sized?
2020-01-19T19:58:16 < qyx> but it would be great if I could harvest some energy from them too
2020-01-19T19:58:26 < mawk> but it's regular leds ?
2020-01-19T19:58:34 < qyx> yes
2020-01-19T19:58:39 < Cracki> ye, leds aren't made for output
2020-01-19T19:58:42 < Cracki> electircal output
2020-01-19T19:58:49 < qyx> this one looks good https://www.tme.eu/sk/details/am-1456ca/fotovolticke-moduly/panasonic/
2020-01-19T19:58:50 < mawk> that works better than photodiode ?
2020-01-19T19:58:57 < qyx> no
2020-01-19T19:59:00 < Cracki> see if you can't find photodiodes
2020-01-19T19:59:02 < mawk> but cheaper
2020-01-19T19:59:02 < qyx> but 10x cheaper
2020-01-19T19:59:17 < Cracki> how many do you need
2020-01-19T19:59:32 < mawk> glass didoes would be worse than leds ?
2020-01-19T19:59:35 < mawk> they are cheap too
2020-01-19T19:59:42 < Cracki> glass dildoes?
2020-01-19T19:59:46 < mawk> lol
2020-01-19T19:59:50 < mawk> diodes
2020-01-19T19:59:58 < qyx> glass diodes are worse according to some guy who did the comparison
2020-01-19T20:00:02 < mawk> I see
2020-01-19T20:00:24 < Cracki> srlsy I think even 100 photodiodes would be a minor cost compared to the few coins worth of microcontroller and radio you have to stick in there
2020-01-19T20:03:51 < Cracki> dickikey has some for under 10 cents unit price
2020-01-19T20:04:03 < Cracki> https://www.digikey.com/product-detail/en/inolux/IN-S126BTNPD/1830-IN-S126BTNPDTR-ND/10384774
2020-01-19T20:04:35 < Cracki> maybe look what lcsc has. you would care to have that shit assembled, eh?
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2020-01-19T20:06:54 < Cracki> oh, that one is only near infrared
2020-01-19T20:09:50 < qyx> bpw34 should give ~60uA
2020-01-19T20:15:15 < Cracki> I would stick a big one just for power on the top of that phallus. would probably get more area and best illumination than all the measurement cells combined.
2020-01-19T20:16:27 < Cracki> mushroom top or something... but make sure it's not looking like a nail or else someone is gonna hammer it
2020-01-19T20:18:43 < Cracki> "mole repellent stake" except longer
2020-01-19T20:22:07 < Cracki> https://images-na.ssl-images-amazon.com/images/I/51mg%2BL0TnIL._SX522_.jpg
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2020-01-19T20:41:22 < jly> yeah muscles
2020-01-19T20:43:15 < Steffanx> Sorry, CRT just left.
2020-01-19T20:49:59 < jly> ah no
2020-01-19T20:50:10 < jly> did you ban him again Steffanx ?
2020-01-19T20:56:52 < Steffanx> No, ofcourse not. it was voluntary.
2020-01-19T21:04:45 < mawk>  Fotovoltaický článok
2020-01-19T21:04:48 < mawk> too many accents
2020-01-19T21:09:55 < Steffanx> Dónt you have many of those characters as a key on your kb as well, mawk?
2020-01-19T21:09:56 < Steffanx> ç
2020-01-19T21:10:02 < mawk> yeah
2020-01-19T21:10:20 < Steffanx> Except for the č i guess
2020-01-19T21:10:35 < mawk> é è à ç ë ê ï î â
2020-01-19T21:10:40 < mawk> these are the ones we use in french
2020-01-19T21:10:45 < mawk> ä maybe, can't remember
2020-01-19T21:10:50 < mawk> in some proper names
2020-01-19T21:11:03 < englishman> and œ
2020-01-19T21:11:05 < mawk> ah yes
2020-01-19T21:11:07 < mawk> œœœœ
2020-01-19T21:11:16 < mawk> un œuf, un bœuf, un cœur, une sœur
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2020-01-19T21:12:12 < kakipro> shalom
2020-01-19T21:12:54 < Steffanx> hyvää päivää
2020-01-19T21:12:55 < mawk> æ sometimes too I guess
2020-01-19T21:12:59 < mawk> in latin words
2020-01-19T21:13:09 < Steffanx> Talking about too many accents and stuff. Finnish is baad.
2020-01-19T21:13:11 < mawk> ad vitam æternam
2020-01-19T21:13:29 < Steffanx> I just translated "Good day" and it comes up with "hyvää päivää".
2020-01-19T21:13:33 < mawk> lol
2020-01-19T21:15:08 < Steffanx> Do you have all those keys on your azerty keyboard or do you have to write "e to make it ë ( like i have to)?
2020-01-19T21:16:29 < mawk> on the keyboard I have directly œéèçà
2020-01-19T21:16:39 < mawk> and i have to do ^ + e to do ê, same for ë
2020-01-19T21:18:00 < englishman> french keyboards are teh fucking dumbest shit
2020-01-19T21:18:24 < mawk> I put a qwerty keyboard on my desk in addition to my azerty keyboard
2020-01-19T21:18:33 < mawk> because they're always confused when they come write something
2020-01-19T21:20:47 < mawk> to do [ it's alt-gr + 5
2020-01-19T21:20:58 < mawk> and ] is alt-gr + the key after 0
2020-01-19T21:21:04 < mawk> it's not very good for programming
2020-01-19T21:22:01 < mawk> speaking of programming, I need to find some motivation to finish my vpn software
2020-01-19T21:23:30 < mawk> please send me some motivation Steffanx 
2020-01-19T21:26:18 < Steffanx> Ask jly. hes a good motivator.
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2020-01-19T21:27:51 < jly> full take care
2020-01-19T21:28:51 < Steffanx> He does everything.
2020-01-19T21:29:51 < jly> what you need is an incurable disease that attacks your central nervous system
2020-01-19T21:30:00 < jly> i find that improves my motivation lol
2020-01-19T21:30:24 < Steffanx> uh what?
2020-01-19T21:30:37 < jly> meth bugs or something idk
2020-01-19T21:30:53 < Steffanx> Sounds all fucked up
2020-01-19T21:31:34 < mawk> my brain is pristine
2020-01-19T21:31:36 < jly> totally
2020-01-19T21:31:52 < jly> mawk: then you can teach it motivation 
2020-01-19T21:32:02 < mawk> when consuming large amounts of drugs I took care to not take anything that could be neurotoxic
2020-01-19T21:32:07 < mawk> to stay intelligent
2020-01-19T21:32:18 < Steffanx> lolyou
2020-01-19T21:32:24 < jly> yeah that sounds good!
2020-01-19T21:32:36 < jly> i liked the drugs bit
2020-01-19T21:32:57 < kakipro> I remember when I told my friends about weed
2020-01-19T21:33:14 < mawk> they stopped talking to you
2020-01-19T21:33:29 < kakipro> one day one of my friends said "yeah.. I tried that cocaine thing you talked about"
2020-01-19T21:33:40 < mawk> lol
2020-01-19T21:34:12 < jly> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KCtLAqD63G4
2020-01-19T21:34:38 < kakipro> jly: our youtubes have been synchronized
2020-01-19T21:34:52 < Steffanx> Hows the snus consumption nowdays kakipro?
2020-01-19T21:35:12 < kakipro> I switched to synthetic nicotine
2020-01-19T21:35:24 < jly> jly: do you get the chick with brain cancer who died 5 years ago?
2020-01-19T21:35:30 < jly> idk what's going on with that
2020-01-19T21:35:36 < Steffanx> safu
2020-01-19T21:36:00 < jly> is google telling me I have the cancer
2020-01-19T21:38:31 < jly> I had an erection that didn't go down for 7 weeks so I had a brain MRI
2020-01-19T21:39:44 < kakipro> diagnosis: what a perv
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2020-01-19T21:41:37 < kakipro> but seriously jly
2020-01-19T21:41:39 < kakipro> ?
2020-01-19T21:42:30 < jly> rofl
2020-01-19T21:44:10 < jly> I did get the MRI though
2020-01-19T21:44:59 < jly> Steffanx: do you think kasyan tv have an MRI project?
2020-01-19T21:47:49 < mawk> 7 weeks is a lot
2020-01-19T21:47:55 < mawk> you lose your dick for that much
2020-01-19T21:48:00 < jly> this actually did not happen
2020-01-19T21:48:01 < mawk> priapism
2020-01-19T21:48:06 < mawk> yes I figure
2020-01-19T21:48:14 < mawk> you'd cut off your own dick way before 7 weeks
2020-01-19T21:48:21 < jly> there are no asian women around here
2020-01-19T21:48:26 < jly> :~(
2020-01-19T21:48:33 < mawk> you like them ?
2020-01-19T21:48:46 < jly> I really like this one steffan showed me a video of
2020-01-19T21:49:29 < jly> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yfvSTDBO0AU
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2020-01-19T21:53:55 < kakipro> steffs trip report?
2020-01-19T21:54:11 < kakipro> *travel vlog
2020-01-19T21:54:25 < kakipro> trip report is maybe narcotics term
2020-01-19T21:55:30 < kakipro> read and write first hand reports of substance effects*
2020-01-19T21:55:58 < Steffanx> i invited him/her for a sauna session with you and me kakipro.
2020-01-19T21:56:07 < Steffanx> *to
2020-01-19T21:56:13 < kakipro> to where?
2020-01-19T21:56:56 < kakipro> where we going?
2020-01-19T21:57:01 < Steffanx> you have a sauna right?
2020-01-19T21:57:14 < jly> yes dad
2020-01-19T22:04:24 < Steffanx> So whats pumping kakipro? Did you have that sled out of the shed yet?
2020-01-19T22:04:35 < kakipro> snow melted
2020-01-19T22:04:39 < kakipro> only cold now
2020-01-19T22:05:26 < Steffanx> hm
2020-01-19T22:07:13 < Steffanx> below zero cold?
2020-01-19T22:08:31 < kakipro> y 
2020-01-19T22:20:11 < kakipro> every second day it's under zero and every other is above zero and raining water
2020-01-19T22:20:43 < kakipro> weirdest shit as usually at this time of year it's solid -20c or so
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2020-01-19T22:23:32 < Steffanx> its unusual warm here too
2020-01-19T22:23:37 < Steffanx> probably in many places in europe
2020-01-19T22:24:02 < Cracki> weather gods need us to sacrifice an autistic child
2020-01-19T22:24:10 < kakipro> it's literally 50km to south and no snow
2020-01-19T22:24:22 < kakipro> I live on snow border
2020-01-19T22:24:50 < Cracki> beyond the wall
2020-01-19T22:30:41 < qyx> we had snow yesterday
2020-01-19T22:30:44 < qyx> ~5mm
2020-01-19T22:31:06 < qyx> for about half a day
2020-01-19T22:34:20 < Steffanx> did the entire country go into lock down due to that?
2020-01-19T22:37:23 < fenugrec> englishman did you finish shoveling
2020-01-19T22:39:32 < Steffanx> noo, that is 2000km further away.
2020-01-19T22:39:44 < kakipro> lakes have black totally flat ice
2020-01-19T22:40:00 < kakipro> without snow
2020-01-19T22:40:06 < Steffanx> perfect for your sled thing
2020-01-19T22:40:15 < zyp> so far I think I've had around one day of snow in total this winter
2020-01-19T22:40:15 < kakipro> yes or skating
2020-01-19T22:40:17 < zyp> some weeks ago
2020-01-19T22:40:21 < Steffanx> moped with spikes?
2020-01-19T22:40:32 < kakipro> nah
2020-01-19T22:40:39 < kakipro> requires investment
2020-01-19T22:40:53 < Steffanx> aliexpress might have some
2020-01-19T22:41:53 < zyp> last winter all the snow came in about one weekend and then stayed for a couple of weeks before it melted
2020-01-19T22:42:08 < kakipro> I wouldn't trust east asians to know how to make winter tyres to motorcycle
2020-01-19T22:42:18 < zyp> I wonder if it's gonna be something like that again, or if the winter is already over
2020-01-19T22:42:25 < Steffanx> i heard you finnishers like risks kakipro
2020-01-19T22:42:39 < kakipro> maximum risk
2020-01-19T22:43:26 < Steffanx> its not unusual to be very cold in febr. so in dutchland we'll see
2020-01-19T22:44:09 < Steffanx> very cold for dutch standards that is
2020-01-19T22:45:50 < qyx> does anyone have a mikrotik with PoE out?
2020-01-19T22:45:57 < qyx> the passive one
2020-01-19T22:46:09 < qyx> will it blow 75R resistors on the other end?
2020-01-19T22:47:06 < kakipro> sure
2020-01-19T22:47:15 < kakipro> if it's passive poe
2020-01-19T22:47:24 < kakipro> nothing to stop it
2020-01-19T22:47:53 < qyx> PoE-Out can be configured under /interface ethernet poe menu
2020-01-19T22:47:54 < qyx> oh
2020-01-19T22:48:03 < qyx> auto-on - the board will attempt to detect if power can be applied on the port. For power-on to happen there should be resistance on spare pairs in the range from 3kΩ to 26.5kΩ
2020-01-19T22:48:07 < zyp> haven't tried doing that, but that's kinda the thing
2020-01-19T22:48:28 < qyx> so even for non-af/at poe it does some detection
2020-01-19T22:48:30 < zyp> also why bother with passive PoE?
2020-01-19T22:48:46 < kakipro> qyx: there is no standard for that
2020-01-19T22:48:46 < qyx> thats not my plan
2020-01-19T22:48:47 < kakipro> so
2020-01-19T22:48:54 < kakipro> per device basis
2020-01-19T22:48:57 < qyx> I just want to know if I can use that port for normal ethernet
2020-01-19T22:49:01 < zyp> kakipro, af/at/whatever is the standard
2020-01-19T22:49:12 < zyp> qyx, sure, just turn off PoE out
2020-01-19T22:49:19 < zyp> passive PoE out is usually opt in
2020-01-19T22:49:20 < qyx> yeah I didn't know if it is possible
2020-01-19T22:49:22 < qyx> or hardwired
2020-01-19T22:49:30 < kakipro> how about my ubiquitis?
2020-01-19T22:49:44 < kakipro> do those have resistance detection is space pair?
2020-01-19T22:49:48 < zyp> I've got an edgerouter poe, it's opt in
2020-01-19T22:50:04 < zyp> and it apparently also has some anti-fuckup logic
2020-01-19T22:50:21 < zyp> it seems like if it detects a link before enabling PoE, it won't enable PoE
2020-01-19T22:50:23 < qyx> also (not my concern now) I don't care how the poe is implemented
2020-01-19T22:50:27 < qyx> as long as it works together
2020-01-19T22:51:01 < zyp> I've got a mikrotik switch with PoE in that I've tried powering from both the edgerouter and the plain AC adapter it comes with
2020-01-19T22:51:05 < englishman> fenugrec: from yesterday? got hardly anything
2020-01-19T22:51:14 < englishman> a week ago it was pretty bad
2020-01-19T22:51:29 < zyp> works fine, but after power cycling stuff edgerouter detects mikrotik already gives a link (from getting AC power) and doesn't turn on PoE
2020-01-19T22:52:26 < fenugrec> englishman, huh, got lots of snowdrift here. pretty windy
2020-01-19T22:56:02 < kakipro> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2zIyIAfelTU finnish music I never heard about
2020-01-19T22:58:28 < Steffanx> based on the name i would say they are from Ikea.
2020-01-19T22:58:55 < Steffanx> Blastromen  must be some ikea ventilator
2020-01-19T22:59:51 < kakipro> yes
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2020-01-19T23:12:28 < qyx> lol
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2020-01-20T00:16:02 < qyx> so lcsc LEDs are about $0.007
2020-01-20T00:16:10 < mawk> nice
2020-01-20T00:16:19 < qyx> unbelievable
2020-01-20T00:17:20 < mawk> too expensive ?
2020-01-20T00:17:27 -!- tcth [~tcth@77.109.191.152] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds]
2020-01-20T00:18:11 < qyx> too cheap
2020-01-20T00:21:00 -!- jly [uid355225@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-qwvxqucrfgefnodt] has quit [Quit: Connection closed for inactivity]
2020-01-20T00:22:24 < specing> qyx: you mean digikey/farnell/mouser/etc are a ripoff? well, yess ;D
2020-01-20T00:28:34 < thardin> you pay for knowing what you get
2020-01-20T00:32:12 < zyp> digikey leds are only about five times that, sounds reasonable enough
2020-01-20T00:35:37 < antto> there are these optosupply pretty bright 0805 LEDs we buy from comet.bg that are significantly cheaper than anything equivalent from mouser
2020-01-20T00:36:38 < thardin> .03€ does actually sound sort of expensive for indicating LEDs
2020-01-20T00:37:25 < zyp> not really, depends what scale you're buying them in
2020-01-20T00:38:34 < antto> https://store.comet.bg/en/Catalogue/Product/44044/
2020-01-20T00:38:44 < thardin> compared to resistors at least
2020-01-20T00:39:00 < specing> thardin: has there been any proof of LCSC shipping counterfeit goods?
2020-01-20T00:39:15 < thardin> not that I know
2020-01-20T00:39:28 < thardin> just that I see complaints in here about crappy datasheets and so on
2020-01-20T00:39:51 < qyx> my idea is busted, 4051 mux has higher on-state leakage than a LED's photocurrent
2020-01-20T00:48:43 < specing> thardin: well, you don't have to buy chinese components
2020-01-20T00:48:59 < specing> thardin: LCSC also ships a lot of widely known brands
2020-01-20T00:49:04 < specing> like.. stm
2020-01-20T00:49:58 < catphish> this thing looks awesome https://store.pine64.org/?product=14%e2%80%b3-pinebook-pro-linux-laptop-64gb-emmc-iso-keyboard-estimated-dispatch-in-october-2019
2020-01-20T00:50:54 < englishman> why
2020-01-20T00:54:00 < zyp> dunno about awesome, but a bit cute
2020-01-20T00:54:21 < catphish> well primarily because of the price, it seems uncommon to get a laptop with a 1080 display for $200
2020-01-20T00:55:01 < catphish> but i also think it's interesting that there's a regular laptop with an arm core
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2020-01-20T00:55:21 < catphish> dunno how the performance and battery life compares to a comparable intel
2020-01-20T00:55:41 < catphish> but it has a certain coolness factor, particularly for the price
2020-01-20T00:55:42 < zyp> hardware-wise it's just a shitty tablet
2020-01-20T00:55:47 < Cracki> there must have been chromebooks with arm cpu
2020-01-20T00:55:48 < zyp> in a different package
2020-01-20T00:56:00 < englishman> https://wiki.pine64.org/images/4/45/PBPL_S.jpg
2020-01-20T00:56:14 < zyp> 1xA72 + 1xA53 is not very impressive at all
2020-01-20T00:56:28 < Cracki> 2+4 cores tho
2020-01-20T00:56:32 < Cracki> do you want multiple sockets
2020-01-20T00:56:33 < catphish> it is indeed a low spec tablet with a big display, but more than that, they're working on proper open source drivers for the SoC
2020-01-20T00:56:47 < zyp> ah, I misread
2020-01-20T00:56:52 < zyp> 2+4, not 1+1
2020-01-20T00:56:55 < zyp> still
2020-01-20T00:57:04 < catphish> again, 6 cores seems good for the money
2020-01-20T00:57:15 < catphish> but i don't know what modern tablets are like, i assume similar
2020-01-20T00:58:02 < Cracki> 200 bucks, a typical apple user would buy five of those and not think about it
2020-01-20T00:58:04 < catphish> oh yeah, my new table is Snapdragon 660 with 8 cores
2020-01-20T00:58:22 < catphish> i suppose what attracted me to it was that i'm looking at $3k laptops
2020-01-20T00:58:33 < catphish> and it's basically a usable laptop for $200
2020-01-20T00:58:52 < catphish> i'm having so much trouble choosing a laptop :(
2020-01-20T00:58:54 < englishman> i got a bunch of usable laptops on amazon $200/ea in 2017 for work
2020-01-20T00:58:56 < zyp> for some value of usable
2020-01-20T00:59:08 < catphish> sometimes i envy apple users who only get one choice
2020-01-20T00:59:10 < englishman> and didnt have to deal with dead pixels. plus they came with win10
2020-01-20T00:59:14 < zyp> speaking of laptops, I bought a new MBP the other day
2020-01-20T00:59:23 < Cracki> try geizhals.de and switch it to english
2020-01-20T00:59:32 < Cracki> I think it can do uk sellers only
2020-01-20T00:59:45 < Cracki> select display type and resolution and off you go
2020-01-20T01:00:04 < catphish> actually the MBP would be pretty much ideal for me, i want something with decent performance, but USB charging
2020-01-20T01:00:11 < Cracki> is it the MBP with the keyboard that doesn't fail right away?
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2020-01-20T01:00:23 < catphish> the new MBP with the ESC key looks better
2020-01-20T01:00:27 < zyp> yeah
2020-01-20T01:00:32 < Cracki> wait they made mbps without esc?
2020-01-20T01:00:37 < zyp> the lack of physical ESC is the biggest issue I have with it
2020-01-20T01:00:38 < Cracki> how the eff
2020-01-20T01:00:45 < zyp> esc is on the touchbar
2020-01-20T01:00:53 < catphish> yes, the prev generation has a touch display where the F keys would go
2020-01-20T01:00:57 < Cracki> what's next, trackpad you can't track on?
2020-01-20T01:00:59 < zyp> not a big deal though
2020-01-20T01:01:25 < zyp> I read through the rumors and they say a new model reintroducing esc is probably coming in may-june or so
2020-01-20T01:01:32 < Cracki> does it at least have removable mass storage or is that baked onto the pcb too
2020-01-20T01:01:33 < catphish> anyway, i do like the MBP, but 1) the cost seems mad 2) i feel bad installing linux on it
2020-01-20T01:01:46 < catphish> also, i'd quite like mouse buttons
2020-01-20T01:01:47 < englishman> just run lunix in vm like a normal person
2020-01-20T01:01:53 < Cracki> the cost is mad. you can get the same specs cheaper, and less unrepairable
2020-01-20T01:01:57 < catphish> that would be hassle to boot
2020-01-20T01:02:02 < catphish> and probably perform like shit
2020-01-20T01:02:07 < Cracki> wat is parallels
2020-01-20T01:02:10 < englishman> just like dekstop lunix
2020-01-20T01:02:10 < zyp> but I wanted a new laptop for travelling in march, and came across a good offer
2020-01-20T01:02:13 < Cracki> is that dual boot or vm
2020-01-20T01:02:24 < zyp> so I got it as a birthday present from me to me
2020-01-20T01:02:26 < catphish> bootcamp is dual boot
2020-01-20T01:02:29 < catphish> parallels is VM i think
2020-01-20T01:02:40 < specing> No escape button? wtf? What junk of a laptop is that?
2020-01-20T01:02:44 < catphish> lol
2020-01-20T01:02:55 < catphish> the touch bar is cool, but also, meh
2020-01-20T01:03:02 < catphish> i've never not liked F keys
2020-01-20T01:03:03 < zyp> also wtf do you need linux on a MBP for? macos is already unix
2020-01-20T01:03:04 < specing> Does it even have a trackpoint?
2020-01-20T01:03:14 < Cracki> touch bar, sounds kinda ghey
2020-01-20T01:03:47 < catphish> zyp: i just like my desktop manager, no desire to switch to MACOS, i dislike its window manager and dock personally
2020-01-20T01:03:56 < catphish> just preference / stickiness i guess
2020-01-20T01:04:45 < catphish> i liked windows 2000, now i like cinnamon, i don't like change :)
2020-01-20T01:04:52 < zyp> maybe, I've been using macos since 2008 or so
2020-01-20T01:04:55 < Cracki> I admire people who can bear the uncanny valley of apple device UX
2020-01-20T01:05:24 < zyp> I've always thought of macos as the combination of usable CLI and usable GUI
2020-01-20T01:05:33 < zyp> windows lacks one and linux lacks the other
2020-01-20T01:05:39 < Cracki> del and backspace, stuff that should be ctrl+something isn't, mouse accelerating off the face of the earth, buttons where they aren't supposed to be
2020-01-20T01:05:43 < catphish> anyway, i'm 90% settles on the lenovo X1, the only thing that puts me off is that it's slightly underpowered for the money
2020-01-20T01:06:04 < Cracki> you can upgrade windows with msys2 or its own linux subsystem
2020-01-20T01:06:17 < Cracki> x1 sounds like you're paying for optics there
2020-01-20T01:06:25 < Cracki> they do have less handsome ones
2020-01-20T01:07:01 < catphish> X1, T490, T490s, they're all kinda much of the same
2020-01-20T01:07:22 < Cracki> I would avoid anything that has a touchpad without buttons
2020-01-20T01:07:30 < zyp> Cracki, why?
2020-01-20T01:07:44 < Cracki> they did that to the t440s and then people ripped their heads off and then the t450s had buttons again
2020-01-20T01:08:00 < Cracki> it's not a fucking tablet, you have space for physical buttons you can find by touch
2020-01-20T01:08:02 < catphish> i personally like mouse buttons, my XPS15 doesn't have them and i don't like ot much
2020-01-20T01:08:03 < catphish> *it
2020-01-20T01:08:18 < Cracki> I almost always use the nipple and buttons
2020-01-20T01:08:25 < catphish> nipple is nice to have too
2020-01-20T01:08:38 < kakipro> hard nipple
2020-01-20T01:08:43 < Cracki> also since the replacement trackpad was likely counterfeit and no driver of any of the commonly installed ones seems to accept it
2020-01-20T01:09:02 < Cracki> so I gained buttons and lost the ability to pet it
2020-01-20T01:09:06 < catphish> but yeah, lenovo have the underpowered T490/T490S/X1, or the grossly overpowered X1 extreme, with its dual GPU and proprietary charger
2020-01-20T01:09:13 < catphish> and i'm having a hard time choosing :(
2020-01-20T01:09:25 < zyp> the two laptops I had before the old MBP had nipple, don't miss it
2020-01-20T01:09:30 < Cracki> what is dual gpu, intel + discrete, or two discrete?
2020-01-20T01:09:51 < catphish> i'm not that bothered about the nipple, and i've learned to live without mouse buttons, so it's not essential
2020-01-20T01:10:11 < catphish> Cracki: it's intel's messy piece of shit dial gpu thing
2020-01-20T01:10:16 < catphish> *nvidia's
2020-01-20T01:10:24 < Cracki> whcih one is it
2020-01-20T01:10:38 < Cracki> my t440s has intel igpu + nvidia discrete because I chose to have something that's capable of cuda
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2020-01-20T01:11:06 < catphish> i7-9750H + GTX1650
2020-01-20T01:11:07 < zyp> by the way, can I sidetrack the discussion a bit? anybody seen any nice usb-c multiport chargers?
2020-01-20T01:11:08 < Cracki> had I known that I wouldn't be doing anything with it for that long I might have saved that money
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2020-01-20T01:12:02 < catphish> but i've never known PRIME to work properly with linux :(
2020-01-20T01:12:36 < catphish> have you tried anker, they do good chit
2020-01-20T01:12:37 < Cracki> this "optimus" as they call it properly, doesn't let me use the displayport socket. it notices but doesn't output
2020-01-20T01:12:37 < catphish> *shit
2020-01-20T01:12:43 < Cracki> anker, +1
2020-01-20T01:12:51 < catphish> yeah, optimus is 100% wank
2020-01-20T01:13:16 < catphish> https://www.anker.com/products/108/216/desktop-chargers
2020-01-20T01:13:42 < catphish> not 100% dedicated USB C, but good products
2020-01-20T01:14:12 < zyp> I already have two of the powerport 6 ones and an older version of the one with one USB-C port and four A ports
2020-01-20T01:14:25 < zyp> that I bought like 4-5 years ago
2020-01-20T01:14:42 < zyp> been using the latter to charge phone and other stuff
2020-01-20T01:14:53 < zyp> now I want something with more than just one USB-C port
2020-01-20T01:15:18 < catphish> i pretty much settled on the X1, because i see no downside compared to the T series
2020-01-20T01:15:32 < zyp> and the best I've found is that Atom PD 4 thing, but 2xC + 2xA is a bit few
2020-01-20T01:15:34 < catphish> but i'd like just a little more spec really
2020-01-20T01:15:42 < zyp> I'd like more ports
2020-01-20T01:18:49 < Laurenceb> https://youtu.be/bWLvW3xEIQw
2020-01-20T01:20:06 < Cracki> he doesn't look like he ever really "fell down" there
2020-01-20T01:21:46 < Cracki> so he got pulled in with facts and logic, and he escaped from that how?
2020-01-20T01:22:55 < Cracki> comments are commie
2020-01-20T01:24:18  * qyx trying to do hierarchical sch in kicad
2020-01-20T01:27:53 < invzim> fucking conterfeits
2020-01-20T01:27:55 < invzim> maybe
2020-01-20T01:28:39 < invzim> is there any reason, or have you guys seen chips that look 'sanded' and re-lasered/printed that are geniune?
2020-01-20T01:29:26 < Laurenceb> tomorrow is going to be fun
2020-01-20T01:29:35 < Laurenceb> can't wait to see livestreams of miles of people gladly walking into the Freedom Cage
2020-01-20T01:29:37 < zyp> invzim, in what sense? I've seen that in products, where the vendor are trying to hide what mcu or watever they are using
2020-01-20T01:29:45 < zyp> but not for loose parts
2020-01-20T01:30:05 < invzim> maybe I can snap a pic
2020-01-20T01:30:10 < invzim> light has to be right
2020-01-20T01:31:45 < Laurenceb> MUH GUNS MUH 2ND AMMENDMENT
2020-01-20T01:32:33 < Laurenceb> It will go smoothly if the boomer cattle are corralled correctly into the cages
2020-01-20T01:37:55 < invzim> https://drive.google.com/open?id=1WpGLytc0uMA8mr2r6-5_1d5lAwhHHVnm
2020-01-20T01:37:55 < invzim> https://drive.google.com/open?id=1D93W3OE13yWcnUt0jBkQ2wBVD4jrqBed
2020-01-20T01:37:57 < invzim> https://drive.google.com/open?id=1iKoxf2mwU0cLvbmMD4TCGBftJwc3Wt-X
2020-01-20T01:42:29 < Laurenceb> David Hogg needs to lift
2020-01-20T01:44:08 < invzim> hm, underneath the chips are also different - a bit peculiar when they're from the same board
2020-01-20T01:44:12 < invzim> https://drive.google.com/file/d/1vxq-PIeLNWA89s8i95lo7dCeL10M_o9t/view
2020-01-20T01:44:53 < invzim> someone plz recommend an assembly house that are good at sourcing, easy to work with and cheap
2020-01-20T01:46:38 < specing> invzim: jlcpcb?
2020-01-20T01:48:02 < invzim> your SOL if you use parts they don't stock
2020-01-20T01:48:23 < invzim> heard good things about http://www.myropcb.com/
2020-01-20T01:50:06 < Laurenceb> the tables have truly turned
2020-01-20T01:50:58 < Laurenceb> >tomorrow magatard boomers will be giving up their guns at the entrance and sitting in cages protesting while the mexicans point and laugh at them from the outside
2020-01-20T01:51:07 < kakipro> lurence when you start streaming?
2020-01-20T01:51:30 < Laurenceb> I'm not a murimutt
2020-01-20T01:51:58 < kakipro> is uk still part of eu?
2020-01-20T01:52:27 < Laurenceb> yes
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2020-01-20T02:11:29 < Cracki> when will you be free
2020-01-20T02:11:52 < Steffanx> Nevah 
2020-01-20T02:12:30 < Steffanx> </AlfredVoice>
2020-01-20T02:23:10 < Cracki> murican eagle, too spherical to fly https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kAD6MA-5P60
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2020-01-20T02:43:10 < Mangy_Dog> awww hehehe
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2020-01-20T04:17:24 < upgrdman> usb oscope pros: is picoscope "the" option?
2020-01-20T04:18:00 < upgrdman> looking for 4ch ~100mhz. in the past i used a picoscope and their software felt like shit. but it seems like not many options out there
2020-01-20T04:18:44 < upgrdman> shit, i better innovate my TelemetryViewer and market my own usb scopes
2020-01-20T04:22:27 < Cracki> pls do, they have no competition
2020-01-20T04:22:55 < Cracki> maybe some of those LAs with ADC ("mixed signal") have tolerable software... wouldn't hold my breath
2020-01-20T04:23:26 < Cracki> iirc azonenberg innovated his own "scope" for high speed lines because he had to.
2020-01-20T04:23:47 < Cracki> including software that did eye diagrams and whatnot, so it has "phosphorus".
2020-01-20T04:23:54 < Cracki> not sure if picoscope sw has phosphorus
2020-01-20T04:24:07 < upgrdman> ohhh. did you save a link to azon's thing?
2020-01-20T04:30:46 < Cracki> upgrdman, https://twitter.com/azonenberg/status/1212236948527403010
2020-01-20T04:33:04 < Cracki> still I remember there was an adc chip and more diy involved
2020-01-20T04:34:23 < upgrdman> hmm ya i remember that photo of his now
2020-01-20T04:35:39 < kakiho> dongs: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wOpVQrmHS9k celtic?
2020-01-20T04:35:57 < kakiho> do you still have the sample?
2020-01-20T04:36:18 < Cracki> this looks like the GUI I remember from when I saw it first https://twitter.com/azonenberg/status/1206419219794948096
2020-01-20T04:36:26 < kakiho> *gaelic
2020-01-20T04:43:10 < Cracki> sexy https://twitter.com/azonenberg/status/1116857183352737792
2020-01-20T04:44:02 < Cracki> this seems to be his design of a scope https://twitter.com/azonenberg/status/1112622136701538304
2020-01-20T04:48:15 < Cracki> "3ps tap size" lol https://github.com/azonenberg/freesample/wiki
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2020-01-20T04:54:52 < Cracki> picoscope software looks like ass. how are they unable to invent digital phosphorus and turn their ugly 90s gui into white-on-black at least
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2020-01-20T05:43:59 < Cracki> bangin' https://youtu.be/NbJv5ju4RX8?t=727
2020-01-20T05:48:58 < kakiho> thats funny
2020-01-20T05:49:06 < kakiho> why you still up cracki?
2020-01-20T05:49:16 < kakiho> are you me?
2020-01-20T05:49:33 < Cracki> I'm not an owl if that's what you're asking
2020-01-20T05:50:44 < Cracki> some dude from a neighboring channel got one too many freebies from me and now he needs me to save his job by tuesday noon by calculating some stuff on some dataset that he can't define and illustrate quite well enough... and he's waving half his month's paycheck around
2020-01-20T05:51:29 < Cracki> much too risky for me. last time I accepted money from some dude on the internet to save his job, he got mad that I didn't deliver what he dreamed of, but just what I said I would
2020-01-20T05:52:10 < Cracki> so instead I watch yt :P
2020-01-20T05:52:58 < Cracki> I also need to have a chat with boss about his pcb layouting. he put some test pads on the front but I need permanent connections to test a lot of this stuff, i.e. pads or vias on the *back* for a bed of nails
2020-01-20T05:54:34 < Cracki> I stopped asking for TH pads in .1" or .05" to solder my wires to. because the power output part of the board doesn't work I had to grab some magnet wire and run that off the handful of traces (that each have a via, thank god) I need off-board
2020-01-20T05:55:27 < Cracki> and since I'm not equipped for much bodging, I ran the wires through a mounting hole and taped them there
2020-01-20T05:55:42 < Cracki> (pr0s seem to use epoxy or w/e)
2020-01-20T05:57:01 < Cracki> I maybe should have paid more attention to the usb side too. he gave it the 1.5k pullup but this is self-powered so it needs to be controllable... it's not
2020-01-20T05:58:19 < Cracki> instead we have two gpios dedicated to determining whether the firmware uses or ignores two connectors... I could just bake four firmwares
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2020-01-20T06:14:55 < Cracki> ... *cries* i'm gonna parse an eagle brd file to get coordinates for all the vias for all the signals I want... and then generate a feasible bed of nails from that
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2020-01-20T07:28:57 < jly> has anyone seen the flying dutchman?
2020-01-20T07:29:16  * jly welcomes Steffanx 
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2020-01-20T12:03:37 < karlp> invzim: fwiw, the one time I had counterfiet parts, the counterfiets looked _better_ than the real ones.
2020-01-20T12:04:05 < karlp> and that can't be the right way of spelling that. something's wrong wihe me this morning
2020-01-20T12:18:38 < qyx> did you sleep well?
2020-01-20T12:24:59 < karlp> somewhat, have slept better, have slept much worse :)
2020-01-20T12:25:53 < karlp> so,  turned off ntp client on friday, ntp query then showed offset 0.0016 sec.  ntp query this morning shows 0.194 sec offset.
2020-01-20T12:26:17 < karlp> that's only 3mS/hour, with is like 0.8ppm drift, which seems far better than I expected.
2020-01-20T12:29:33 < qyx> what hw?
2020-01-20T12:30:10 < qyx> unrelated, what is an off-state leakage of a small signal mosfet?
2020-01-20T12:30:12  * qyx googleing
2020-01-20T12:30:43 < qyx> usually they only specify gate to source leakage
2020-01-20T12:31:28 < karlp> this is an ar9331 wisoc board, no rtc.
2020-01-20T12:32:10 < qyx> wait what, off state doesn't actually interests me, I need to determine leakage in the on state
2020-01-20T12:32:30 < qyx> and there is only the gate left, so gate-source leakage is maybe what I am trying to find
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2020-01-20T13:12:38 < qyx> Steffanx pls https://www.reddit.com/r/WTF/comments/enlku6/vandals_painted_a_complete_train_silver_in_a/
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2020-01-20T13:51:57 < Steffanx> Haha yes. Imho its funny
2020-01-20T13:52:07 < Steffanx> Sure vandalism, but still funny
2020-01-20T13:54:56 < thardin> hah, nice
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2020-01-20T16:11:00 < BrainDamage> PaulFertser: https://paste.rs/8DC
2020-01-20T16:13:11 < PaulFertser> BrainDamage: interesting, so what exactly gets into getaddrinfo call?
2020-01-20T16:14:18 < PaulFertser> Is it possible it's not handling any kind of IPv6 literals at all?
2020-01-20T16:14:53 < BrainDamage> there's a working bind ::1 right next to it
2020-01-20T16:15:32 < PaulFertser> I wonder if it's a problem common to all twisted apps.
2020-01-20T16:15:45 < BrainDamage> in my experience % encoding is poorly supported by most platforms
2020-01-20T16:15:52 < BrainDamage> that was just one example
2020-01-20T16:16:01 < BrainDamage> go programs also suffer from the same issue
2020-01-20T16:16:16 < BrainDamage> as in the base libs do something wrong
2020-01-20T16:16:35 < PaulFertser> Why do programs mess with the addresses anyhow, they should just copy a string to getaddrinfo verbatim.
2020-01-20T16:16:56 < BrainDamage> ¯\_( ͡°⌣ ͡°)_/¯ 
2020-01-20T16:17:38 < PaulFertser> Mentioned here: https://twistedmatrix.com/trac/wiki/IPv6
2020-01-20T16:18:44 < BrainDamage> last modified 6 years ago
2020-01-20T16:18:54 < PaulFertser> So probably out of date by now.
2020-01-20T16:19:15 < PaulFertser> Probably it's some obvious bug in that synapse app...
2020-01-20T16:19:29 < BrainDamage> it's the reference matrix homeserver
2020-01-20T16:19:48 < BrainDamage> and in my experience, the problem is really widespread
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2020-01-20T16:20:50 < PaulFertser> BrainDamage: OK, I see. My idea is that if something is easy to fix it's not much of a problem though.
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2020-01-20T16:21:01 < BrainDamage> so much that I often just bind to :: and then let iptables/nftables take care of filtering packets from the network iface
2020-01-20T16:22:05 < PaulFertser> Binding servers to LL addresses is an uncommon practice for a valid reason AFAICT.
2020-01-20T16:22:13 < PaulFertser> But that doesn't mean the bugs shouldn't be fixed.
2020-01-20T16:23:31 < karlp> last time I tried reporting bugs in this area it was blank looks and "what are you talking about?!" 
2020-01-20T16:23:48 < PaulFertser> I prefer to send patches in cases like that.
2020-01-20T16:24:12 < karlp> I don't :)
2020-01-20T16:24:53 < karlp> I hve nowhere near enough time to get into people's code like that.
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2020-01-20T16:55:16 < karlp> nice, built redundancy voters, synthesis optimizer threw them out: https://media.ccc.de/v/36c3-10575-how_to_design_highly_reliable_digital_electronics#t=2795
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2020-01-20T17:30:17 < qyx> this is how not to do a capsense level sensor https://www.seeedstudio.com/Grove-Water-Level-Sensor-10CM-p-4443.html
2020-01-20T17:35:07 < karlp> why not?
2020-01-20T17:35:48 < qyx> because liquid level sensing is done using a single electrode + two references
2020-01-20T17:36:04 < qyx> and gives linear and compensated results
2020-01-20T17:37:52 < qyx> also two identical attiny mcus
2020-01-20T17:38:13 < karlp> what are the downsides of their approach?
2020-01-20T17:38:21 < karlp> I have no exposure to the theory in this area.
2020-01-20T17:38:25 < qyx> 5mm resolution only
2020-01-20T17:38:36 < karlp> what are the gains of single electrode + two references?
2020-01-20T17:38:43 < karlp> yeah, they've got effectively buttons for each level
2020-01-20T17:38:50 < qyx> exactly
2020-01-20T17:38:58 < qyx> they can do profiling though
2020-01-20T17:39:16 < qyx> ie. stick it to the ground and see the moisture at different levels
2020-01-20T17:39:17 < karlp> how do you get your rereferences in a normal one?
2020-01-20T17:39:42 < qyx> the same pcb as they have, the bottom and top one are the reference electrodes
2020-01-20T17:39:57 < qyx> and there is one big measurement electrode along the pcb
2020-01-20T17:40:44 < qyx> http://e2e.ti.com/resized-image/__size/1230x0/__key/communityserver-blogs-components-weblogfiles/00-00-00-03-25/6646.Fig1.jpg
2020-01-20T17:40:59 < qyx> RE is ref environment, RL is ref liquid
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2020-01-20T18:28:27 < aandrew> oh you're talking about liquid level measurement via capacitance
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2020-01-20T19:12:36 < mawk> Steffanx https://youtu.be/0TvCYdHYKUk
2020-01-20T19:14:16 < Steffanx> it started ok, then the boom boom started around 1:50 :P
2020-01-20T19:15:11 < Steffanx> 40
2020-01-20T19:22:06 < mawk> it's the reverse
2020-01-20T19:22:15 < mawk> it started meh, then became good
2020-01-20T19:23:18 < mawk> I left console.log('lol') in production code today
2020-01-20T19:23:35 < mawk> they wanted to know why I was laughing but I didn't tell
2020-01-20T19:23:39 < mawk> they can't find out
2020-01-20T19:24:18 < qyx> and why were you laughing
2020-01-20T19:24:56 < Steffanx> because lol
2020-01-20T19:25:10 < mawk> because I found that piece of code while reading my merged code
2020-01-20T19:25:48 < mawk> they ask for minor stuff like "please use British English" but they didn't see that
2020-01-20T19:27:20 < Steffanx> i wouldnt be surprised if you can find "whop" somewhere in the code i wrote :)
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2020-01-20T19:34:16 < Steffanx> Did you go into the underground scene yet mawk?
2020-01-20T19:35:56 < Laurenceb> the muricans are queuing up to get a protesting loicense
2020-01-20T19:35:58 < Laurenceb> my sides
2020-01-20T19:36:17 < Laurenceb> this Virginia rally is hilarious
2020-01-20T19:40:39 < Laurenceb> oh wow I'm loving the livestream
2020-01-20T19:40:47 < Laurenceb> they actually entered the cuck cage
2020-01-20T19:40:55 < Laurenceb> muricans eternally btfo'd
2020-01-20T19:41:47 < Steffanx> Your on autism overload again Laurenceb
2020-01-20T19:42:18 < Laurenceb> yup
2020-01-20T19:42:31 < Laurenceb> lel youtube is banning all the livestreams
2020-01-20T19:42:36 < Laurenceb> peak retard
2020-01-20T19:43:27 < Laurenceb> >they wanted Trump to build a wall so he did
2020-01-20T19:43:28 < Laurenceb> keek
2020-01-20T19:43:36  * qyx @ Break My Fucking Sky - Winter. Lost Smile
2020-01-20T19:43:39 < qyx> some kakimusics
2020-01-20T19:44:52 < specing> right
2020-01-20T19:44:58 < specing> where is trump's wall?
2020-01-20T19:45:11 < kakipro> qyx: url me
2020-01-20T19:45:21 < Laurenceb> specing: around the Magatard who are "protesting"
2020-01-20T19:45:26 < Laurenceb> hey nice gun bro, my gun has a scope on it too bro. cool armor too did you get that from being in the muhreens for 3 years and sitting around in a base so you could get free college too? nice bro fuck the government tho I am a libertarian btw. union electrician also, love working on tax payer funded government building jobs though. down with the socialists!
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2020-01-20T19:50:27 < qyx> kakipro: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ui3PQnKSe04
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2020-01-20T20:15:08 < mawk> not yet Steffanx 
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2020-01-20T21:08:01 < kakipro> mkay
2020-01-20T21:16:56 < Steffanx> i knew kakipro wouldnt be too happy
2020-01-20T21:17:01 < Steffanx> not poppy enough
2020-01-20T21:20:08 < qyx> :(
2020-01-20T21:23:19 < Steffanx> but then kakipro seems unhappy lately. so it might be just his mood
2020-01-20T21:23:20 < qyx> so I placed my first jlcpcb order
2020-01-20T21:23:25 < Steffanx> 4 layer?
2020-01-20T21:23:28 < Steffanx> s
2020-01-20T21:23:31 < qyx> 2 to check them
2020-01-20T21:23:34 < qyx> also
2020-01-20T21:23:39 < qyx> other colors are quite expensive
2020-01-20T21:23:48 < qyx> seeed has all for the same price
2020-01-20T21:24:02 < Steffanx> will you ever see the pcb again when its in the box?
2020-01-20T21:24:16 < qyx> don't ask stupid questions
2020-01-20T21:24:36 < qyx> the look sells
2020-01-20T21:25:37 < Steffanx> Yeah, i hope it comes in a nice enclosure.
2020-01-20T21:25:45 < Steffanx> fugly green pcbs
2020-01-20T21:27:01 < qyx> I am more interested to see how will they manage to make pcb edge fingers
2020-01-20T21:27:15 < qyx> in the next order, after the thing is confirmed working
2020-01-20T21:32:58 < qyx> they are fast Your order has been approved and put into production
2020-01-20T21:35:36 < Steffanx> Yeah they can be pretty fast. my last order was  done in 1 day and 2 hours. not bad imho
2020-01-20T21:36:30 < qyx> but they don't ship Jan 22-30
2020-01-20T21:36:46 < specing> ohshit, its the new year
2020-01-20T21:36:55 < specing> and I have a bunch of stuff to order
2020-01-20T21:37:23 < specing> Do china's mail services work during their new year?
2020-01-20T21:39:11 < bitmask> yea I was worried about that too, I think I got my orders in on time but not positive
2020-01-20T21:39:17 < Steffanx> lol worried.
2020-01-20T21:39:18 < Steffanx> damn
2020-01-20T21:39:25 < bitmask> one of the items says they arent shipping between the 22nd and 29th
2020-01-20T21:39:30 < Steffanx> Another week of delay wont kill you, will it?
2020-01-20T21:39:50 < bitmask> fine, I was 'wondering' about that too
2020-01-20T21:39:57 < Steffanx> hehe
2020-01-20T21:40:15 < jadew> I'm waiting for some stuff too
2020-01-20T21:40:37 < bitmask> one of the items has been shipping, the other still says posting
2020-01-20T21:40:41 < bitmask> not sure what that means
2020-01-20T21:40:52 < jadew> the guy is on his way to the post office
2020-01-20T21:41:16 < bitmask> long trip, been posting for a few days now
2020-01-20T21:41:17 < Steffanx> me too, fuckers used regular awfully slow china post instead of the aliexpress standard shipping i picked.
2020-01-20T21:41:28 < Steffanx> i even paid extra for it.
2020-01-20T21:41:31 < bitmask> mine were both ePacket I think
2020-01-20T21:41:39 < bitmask> which I paid extra for
2020-01-20T21:41:40 < Steffanx> fuckers still used the awfully sow method.
2020-01-20T21:41:41 < jadew> Steffanx, hah! that happened for me too
2020-01-20T21:41:52 < Steffanx> negative feedback it is
2020-01-20T21:41:57 < jadew> there's no recourse for it
2020-01-20T21:42:00 < Steffanx> i wonder if it will even arrive
2020-01-20T21:42:10 < jadew> it will, but in two months
2020-01-20T21:42:12 < bitmask> it will, it just might be 3 months late
2020-01-20T21:42:14 < bitmask> ha
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2020-01-20T21:44:31 < qyx> so what is epacket?
2020-01-20T21:45:44 < Steffanx> https://www.oberlo.com/blog/what-is-epacket-delivery
2020-01-20T21:46:10 -!- tcth [~tcth@77.109.191.152] has joined ##stm32
2020-01-20T21:49:02 < qyx> yeah read that
2020-01-20T21:49:40 < qyx> my country is not listed in the destinations
2020-01-20T21:49:58 < mawk> ship it to me
2020-01-20T21:50:35 < Steffanx> no we wont let illegal stuff enter this country
2020-01-20T21:52:48 < qyx> mawk already entered
2020-01-20T21:52:56 < Steffanx> Yeah, like that wasnt enough
2020-01-20T21:53:32 < qyx> also.. for otjer things, just make them legal
2020-01-20T21:53:34 < Steffanx> ask tcth he knows all about it
2020-01-20T21:54:18 < Steffanx> Yeah they are talking about legalizing some drugs (again)
2020-01-20T21:54:22 < mawk> what illegal stuff
2020-01-20T21:54:33 < Steffanx> or at least regulating it
2020-01-20T22:00:17 < mawk> which ones?
2020-01-20T22:00:20 < mawk> heroin I hope
2020-01-20T22:00:36 < mawk> or some other good stuff
2020-01-20T22:00:39 < mawk> kratom maybe ?
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2020-01-20T22:06:56 < Steffanx> i couldnt care less actually :P
2020-01-20T22:08:22 < mawk> :(
2020-01-20T22:08:39 < mawk> don't you want my happiness ??
2020-01-20T22:10:11 < Steffanx> do i need "special"  crap for that?
2020-01-20T22:10:56 < Steffanx> oh sorry, your happiness
2020-01-20T22:11:05 < mawk> yes
2020-01-20T22:11:06 < Steffanx> do you need "special"  crap for that?
2020-01-20T22:11:45 < mawk> yes like everyone
2020-01-20T22:11:51 < mawk> the human is flawed
2020-01-20T22:11:57 < Steffanx> i see.
2020-01-20T22:12:00 < mawk> they forgot the happiness button when they designed hit
2020-01-20T22:12:02 < mawk> it*
2020-01-20T22:12:32 < Steffanx> so what state are you in now?
2020-01-20T22:13:19 < mawk> what do you mean ?
2020-01-20T22:13:49 < Steffanx> Im just curious. Not happy, assuming you didnt take some "special" substance. So what are the other states.
2020-01-20T22:13:51 < mawk> I am in the state of zuid holland
2020-01-20T22:13:56 < mawk> ah
2020-01-20T22:14:09 < mawk> I am happy but bored
2020-01-20T22:14:42 < Steffanx> Time to take your gf out for a walk in the beautiful state of zuid holland
2020-01-20T22:14:55 < Laurenceb> >fat boomers in GI JOE COD outfits walking around aimlessly
2020-01-20T22:17:36 < Steffanx> Or you can take Laurenceb out for a walk, mawk
2020-01-20T22:17:44 < mawk> lol
2020-01-20T22:17:47 < Steffanx> Then you will be back and your state will be: annoyed.
2020-01-20T22:17:48 < mawk> come visit me Laurenceb 
2020-01-20T22:17:56 < mawk> you can taste dutch beer
2020-01-20T22:18:00 < mawk> lol
2020-01-20T22:18:23 < Steffanx> no, he wants to go to amsterdam. Use mushrooms and jump out of a window. Thats what brits do.
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2020-01-20T22:20:33 < srk> mawk: https://3.bp.blogspot.com/-Xu9I5LW23PY/VeY4pH1xJQI/AAAAAAAAFis/lY200KzbMNQ/s400/dailey_crafton_3.jpg
2020-01-20T22:21:30 < mawk> lol
2020-01-20T22:24:43 < karlp> qyx: did you chhoose special edge finger treatment or not?
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2020-01-20T22:41:07 < qyx> not yet
2020-01-20T22:45:48 -!- learning1 [~pi@121.121.99.238] has joined ##stm32
2020-01-20T22:48:57 < Laurenceb> THANK YOU FOR YOUR SERVICE OFFICER WE'RE ON THE SAME SIDE HERE WE'RE THE GOOD GUYS
2020-01-20T22:48:57 < Laurenceb> WHICH WAY TO THE DESIGNATED FREE SPEECH ZONE?
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2020-01-20T23:28:08 < Steffanx> Lets cheer kakipro up with a classic from his home country: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7yh9i0PAjck
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2020-01-20T23:41:28 < catphish> :)
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2020-01-20T23:42:05 < mawk> hi catphish 
2020-01-20T23:42:12 < catphish> hellllloooooooooooooooooo
2020-01-20T23:42:13 < mawk> I heard catphish meat is very bad
2020-01-20T23:42:47 < catphish> that's not what your mom said
2020-01-20T23:43:08 -!- con3 [~kvirc@165.255.105.92] has quit [Max SendQ exceeded]
2020-01-20T23:43:35 < mawk> :(
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2020-01-20T23:44:08 < catphish> you're probably right though, it doesn't look very tasty
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2020-01-20T23:46:54 < qyx> oh lol it is not captish
2020-01-20T23:48:56 < Steffanx> catpish.
2020-01-20T23:54:23 < mawk> you're dyslexic qyx ?
2020-01-20T23:58:09 < catphish> capitycapish
--- Day changed Tue Jan 21 2020
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2020-01-21T00:43:08 < Laurenceb> keeek
2020-01-21T00:43:15 < qyx> should I do ethernet on F407 or move on to F7?
2020-01-21T00:43:22 < Laurenceb> mexican musk fan thot just got compulsory purchased
2020-01-21T00:43:28 < Laurenceb> >she trusted the Musk
2020-01-21T00:43:41 < Laurenceb> now she has no house
2020-01-21T00:44:16 < specing> compulsory purchased what?
2020-01-21T00:45:19 < Laurenceb> or whatever the murican equivalent is
2020-01-21T00:45:50 < Laurenceb> her house gets bulldozed next month for more "Starship" stuff
2020-01-21T00:47:38 < specing> Lol
2020-01-21T00:47:44 < specing> link please
2020-01-21T00:49:17 -!- tcth [~tcth@77.109.191.152] has joined ##stm32
2020-01-21T00:52:20 < aandrew> eminent domain?
2020-01-21T01:01:51 -!- tcth [~tcth@77.109.191.152] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds]
2020-01-21T01:32:28 < kakipro> eminem
2020-01-21T01:33:30 < Laurenceb>  @bocachicagal iirc
2020-01-21T01:34:47 < kakipro> any innovations lurencer?
2020-01-21T01:37:29 < aandrew> is there such a thing as a usb type c hub? i.e. something with like 3 or 5 or 10 type c ports?
2020-01-21T01:37:33 < aandrew> there are shitloads of type c to a (usb 3.0 and 2.0) but I don't know if there's such thing as c to c
2020-01-21T01:43:51 < zyp> I think I've seen c to c
2020-01-21T01:44:01 < zyp> I was wondering the other day if there's any a to c hubs
2020-01-21T01:45:00 < zyp> https://www.reichelt.com/de/en/usb-3-0-hub-2x-usb-a-2x-usb-c-icy-hub1426-cpd-p268636.html <- here's a c to c hub
2020-01-21T01:49:36 < specing> Laurenceb: nothing about losing house on her twitter
2020-01-21T01:49:44 < specing> Were you spreading fake news?
2020-01-21T01:50:00 < Laurenceb> she must be keeping secrit
2020-01-21T01:50:08 < Laurenceb> it was on nasaspaceflight
2020-01-21T01:50:41 < specing> link
2020-01-21T01:51:14 < Laurenceb> nevar
2020-01-21T01:52:04 < Laurenceb> https://outline.com/LcZ6Bd
2020-01-21T01:54:14 < upgrayedd> Something went wrong
2020-01-21T01:54:17 < upgrayedd> We're sorry. This page failed to Outline
2020-01-21T01:55:03 < Laurenceb> wew
2020-01-21T01:55:08 < Laurenceb> Musk hushed them up
2020-01-21T01:55:23 < aandrew> ah there we go, thanks zyp!
2020-01-21T01:55:51 < upgrayedd> Please enable javascript and turn off your adblock. Your data is very important to us. We sell it to third parties as a means for our business to thrive. By refusing to submit to surveillance capitalism, you forfeit your right to buy and sell all goods and services, including food and water you need to survive. We thank you for your obedience.
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2020-01-21T02:08:50 < catphish> on the subject of USB C, if i want a docking station, something to connect my laptop to power + ethernet + hdmi + usb, can i get these from any vendor?
2020-01-21T02:09:00 < catphish> or do they need to be laptop proprietary?
2020-01-21T02:10:18 < zyp> as far as I can tell they are pretty standard
2020-01-21T02:10:46 < zyp> there's a ton of them on the market that seems to all offer more or less the same features
2020-01-21T02:11:31 < zyp> I assume they simply just run usb3 on two of the highspeed lanes and two-lane displayport on the other two
2020-01-21T02:12:11 < zyp> then displayport to hdmi converter for the hdmi output and usb for ethernet and any card readers and such
2020-01-21T02:13:59 < zyp> I assume they work with anything that can do displayport over usb-c
2020-01-21T02:22:42 < qyx> why do you assume that
2020-01-21T02:23:06 < qyx> last time I was investigating it was like they ran pcie over usb3 alternate
2020-01-21T02:23:59 < qyx> ie. thunderbolt
2020-01-21T02:25:15 < aandrew> catphish: it's generally all the same these days
2020-01-21T02:25:21 < aandrew> some vendors are shit
2020-01-21T02:25:28 < aandrew> so read reviews first, but most are pretty safe it seems
2020-01-21T02:26:30 < aandrew> qyx: anything that's giving you another display *might* be using one of those usb-to-video chips with the respective driver, but most laptops seem to do the right thing and can run an external display over thunderbolt now
2020-01-21T02:27:11 < catphish> thanks!
2020-01-21T02:29:22 < catphish> who makes decent ones?
2020-01-21T02:31:41 < catphish> is this all i need? https://www.anker.com/products/variant/powerexpand--7in1-usbc-pd-ethernet-hub/A83520A1
2020-01-21T02:32:32 < aandrew> yep
2020-01-21T02:32:38 < aandrew> I have one almost identical to it
2020-01-21T02:32:45 < aandrew> and I bet it's identical inside
2020-01-21T02:32:57 < catphish> or this one, same kind of thing https://www.anker.com/products/variant/3in1-premium-usb-c-hub-with-power-delivery/A83350A1
2020-01-21T02:33:00 < catphish> they do a couple
2020-01-21T02:34:15 < catphish> if that's all i need, it's *way* cheaper than an official dock from dell/lenovo
2020-01-21T02:34:29 < catphish> and i've had a ton of problems with my dell one
2020-01-21T02:35:23 < catphish> oo this new one has full 100W PD https://www.anker.com/products/variant/usb-c-hub,-7in1-usb-c-adapter/A83460A1
2020-01-21T02:35:46 < catphish> i'll try it :)
2020-01-21T02:38:02 < catphish> no ethernet though
2020-01-21T02:39:33 < specing> ya'll need C to Ada hubs
2020-01-21T02:53:02 < Laurenceb> the feminised comet being probed by the (mostly) male scientists
2020-01-21T03:13:50 < kakipro> there are plenty of female astrophysists too
2020-01-21T03:19:00 < qyx> astrologists too
2020-01-21T03:19:48 < Laurenceb> http://www.etd.ceu.hu/2015/szucs_tamara.pdf
2020-01-21T03:22:45 < qyx> lol
2020-01-21T03:24:03 < kakipro> so
2020-01-21T03:24:59 < kakipro> this is how you spend your evening
2020-01-21T03:25:08 < Laurenceb> comedy gold
2020-01-21T03:25:18 < kakipro> it's just bullshit
2020-01-21T03:25:28 < kakipro> right from the title
2020-01-21T03:26:00 < kakipro> but yeah
2020-01-21T03:26:55 < BrainDamage> grievance studies
2020-01-21T03:27:49 < BrainDamage> the focus is stirring up drama / unresolved grief
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2020-01-21T04:48:35 < kakiho> youtube recommended me to check time I spend there to "keep it reasonable"
2020-01-21T04:48:49 < kakiho> I didn't check it
2020-01-21T04:49:28 < Thorn> yeah I got that too. looks like they're trying to find ways to limit users' traffic
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2020-01-21T05:03:50 < dongs> haha fuckin weird
2020-01-21T05:04:00 < dongs> so i thought F030 would be a dropin replacement for my F042 thing
2020-01-21T05:04:04 < dongs> since i wasnt using a lot of features
2020-01-21T05:04:09 < dongs> but apparently TIM2 is missing on F030
2020-01-21T05:04:15 < dongs> whcih i used for buzzer PWM
2020-01-21T05:04:16 < dongs> *but*
2020-01-21T05:04:21 < dongs> the code actually enables it
2020-01-21T05:04:24 < dongs> and it "works"
2020-01-21T05:04:26 < dongs> and beeps
2020-01-21T05:04:28 < dongs> and shit
2020-01-21T05:04:49 < dongs> it breaks somewhere else, I wonder if on F030 i'm actually enabling some other timer I have no idea about
2020-01-21T05:06:44 < englishman> that memory just says reserved on 030
2020-01-21T05:06:57 < englishman> 0x4000 0000
2020-01-21T05:07:13 < englishman> nice one
2020-01-21T05:12:08 < dongs> ya?
2020-01-21T05:12:11 < dongs> well, it "works"
2020-01-21T05:12:17 < dongs> buzzer beeps acutally.
2020-01-21T05:12:56 < dongs> wait.. its acutally playing music.. so TIM2 is there
2020-01-21T05:13:08 < dongs> so fucking weird
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2020-01-21T05:13:30 < dongs> but im not gonna spend time figuring out whats broken with the rest of hte code
2020-01-21T05:15:07 < dongs> so if you're Thorn, and brokebitch as fuck. and need $0.30 STM32 and have to use TIM2 for some reason... you can.
2020-01-21T05:15:56 < dongs> yeah, AF2 is empty on F030
2020-01-21T05:16:10 < dongs> which is where TIm2 would be
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2020-01-21T05:22:25 < dongs> oh, i see, only one USART too
2020-01-21T05:22:27 < dongs> ok, 030 is garbage.
2020-01-21T05:22:31 < dongs> thats why it doesnt work.
2020-01-21T05:22:41 < dongs> im actually using us2 on PAx remap
2020-01-21T05:23:19 < dongs> USART2 to USART6 are not present.
2020-01-21T05:23:27 < dongs> for somethign that claims "pin" and "function compatibility"
2020-01-21T05:23:37 < dongs> migrating betweeen F0xx series is actually annoying as fuck.
2020-01-21T05:36:16 < Thorn> dongs: migration within subseries (f0x0, f0x1, f0x2) should be easy afaik
2020-01-21T05:36:31 < dongs> ya surely
2020-01-21T05:36:37 < Thorn> but if you change the last digit you change a lot of peripherals
2020-01-21T05:36:57 < dongs> but reading 030 differences, tehre's stuff missing even between 030x4/6/8/C
2020-01-21T05:37:06 < dongs> i.e. the flash size differences make you lose some periphs
2020-01-21T05:37:15 < dongs> anyway, i stoppedcaring when i found out usart2 is gone
2020-01-21T05:37:22 < dongs> cuz that one is a requirement
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2020-01-21T11:47:08 < karlp> zyp: prediction for our game today?
2020-01-21T11:54:30 < karlp> dongs: when you get down in the x4/x6/x8 you miss lots of extra peripsh on L1 and f3 (at least) as well, not just an f0 problem.
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2020-01-21T13:00:29 < Steffanx> What's sport is this, karlp?
2020-01-21T13:00:41 < Steffanx> It
2020-01-21T13:01:42 < BrainDamage> sportsball
2020-01-21T13:02:34 < Steffanx> Hm
2020-01-21T13:04:09 < karlp> http://www.eurohandball.com/ech/men/2020/match/1/055
2020-01-21T13:05:59 < karlp> (norway still hasn't lost a game, I would definitely favour them to win today)
2020-01-21T13:18:35 < englishman> safe bet https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hot_hand
2020-01-21T13:20:30 < karlp> hah
2020-01-21T13:21:20 < karlp> even the original "hot hands is fallacious" would struggle with entire teams of victories.
2020-01-21T13:21:40 < BrainDamage> an history of success is an indication of skill, nothing wrong with it
2020-01-21T13:22:13 < BrainDamage> local streaks of successes is not a good prediction of local continuation, but global it is
2020-01-21T13:22:37 < karlp> yeha, that's what I meant, hot hands as a fallacy is for streaks within a game,
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2020-01-21T13:35:58 < zyp> karlp, not really following sports :)
2020-01-21T13:38:13 < karlp> I wass't really expecting you to be, but still had to ask :)
2020-01-21T14:17:54 < Steffanx> Will you come to dutchland this year karlp?
2020-01-21T14:18:01 < Steffanx> The Eurovision crap...
2020-01-21T14:19:25 < karlp> Steffanx: not sure, haven't listened to many of them yet, the local entrants were all announced last week
2020-01-21T14:19:34 < karlp> (I won't be, at least, not for eurovision at least)
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2020-01-21T14:22:33 < PaulFertser> Why are you even mentioning eurovision, is it really a thing? I know abba won it many years ago but who the fuck cares about it these days?
2020-01-21T14:23:06 < Steffanx> Yes it's a fucking huge thing
2020-01-21T14:23:11 < Steffanx> I wish it wasnt
2020-01-21T14:26:20 < PaulFertser> How do you get information about it? It's not like it's on hackernews or something is it? I think the only place I hear about it lately is this channel.
2020-01-21T14:40:39 < karlp> it's culturally a large event in iceland, small nation syndrom or something
2020-01-21T14:42:31 < PaulFertser> Do you watch regular television broadcasts? Like BBC or CNN?
2020-01-21T14:42:56 < PaulFertser> Or local channels.
2020-01-21T14:44:20 < PaulFertser> I only listen to local radio and they mostly discuss politics, goverment crimes and economy. They mention eurovision in the news block only.
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2020-01-21T15:07:32 < karlp> I watch local channels, yes
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2020-01-21T15:24:42 < Steffanx> Regular / mainstream media. Since dutchland won last year.. dutchland had to organize this event noe
2020-01-21T15:24:47 < Steffanx> Now
2020-01-21T15:24:52 < Steffanx> Mr PaulFertser  
2020-01-21T15:28:05 < PaulFertser> Steffanx: ah, heh.
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2020-01-21T17:10:26 < lomas> Where can I find the documentation for the demo projects that comes with STM32 Cube MX ?
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2020-01-21T17:21:18 < aandrew> lomas: you can sometimes find an AN specific to it but generally there is little to no real documentation other than what you find in the subdirectories, which is sparse
2020-01-21T17:23:28 < lomas> aandrew, Yeah, I did not get any docs for the demo project I was looking for. Anyway thanks :) 
2020-01-21T17:23:53 < aandrew> lomas: specifically which one were you looking at?
2020-01-21T17:25:17 < Laurenceb> >RED COMMANDER ONE TO ZERO DARK THIRTY ONE NINER ZERO TRANS PINKO, COME IN!
2020-01-21T17:26:29 < lomas> aandrew, I am looking for SD card integration with STM32F070 series controller using FatFS stack. I found the adafruit shield integration along with TFT and joystick and tying to look into the documentation and make a quick study. 
2020-01-21T17:26:44 < aandrew> hm
2020-01-21T17:27:08 < aandrew> one thing I have not done with stm32 is SD (or fatfs for that matter) - never had the need in my own projects
2020-01-21T17:27:18 < aandrew> I unfortunately won't be much help but perhpas someone else here 
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2020-01-21T17:28:56 < lomas> aandrew, Its okay. Thank you for your concern. May be someone out here may help me. SD with M0 is messy.  
2020-01-21T17:28:56 < nn7> Anyone feel like helping me understand RDP, bootloader, boot to flash, etc
2020-01-21T17:30:00 < karlp> noone's going to jsut start monologuing for you nn7, if you have a specific question, ask it.
2020-01-21T17:30:29 < nn7> Right. Let me organize a coherent question.
2020-01-21T17:30:39 < Laurenceb> I've done it many times
2020-01-21T17:31:16 < Laurenceb> seems to generally be very easy, unless you want max possible performance then you want to modify things a bit and use dma as much as poss
2020-01-21T17:32:19 < Laurenceb> at that point the choice of card can also make a difference - cheap cards can go into wait state of ages which can limit even stm32 based throughput
2020-01-21T17:33:06 < nn7> I have this boot jumper that if I short it boots into some mode that allows me to remotely reflash the thing.
2020-01-21T17:33:30 < nn7> Is that just some code in the bootloader that I can change in the future?
2020-01-21T17:33:41 < Laurenceb> like e.g. my horsey logger which had directory structure and xml config files, that stuff made cheap cards go into wait state (I'm talking like 150ms slower)
2020-01-21T17:34:04 < Laurenceb> if you are talking about the st bootloader then no
2020-01-21T17:34:58 < nn7> No meaning I can't change it?
2020-01-21T17:35:25 < Laurenceb> uhuh
2020-01-21T17:35:43 < Laurenceb> some people (like me) like to put "wrappers" around it
2020-01-21T17:35:49 < Laurenceb> so you can jump to it at runtime
2020-01-21T17:36:09 < nn7> I'm reading some training slides about readout protection. "If the selected boot mode is user Flash memory" <- that refers to code I uploaded?
2020-01-21T17:36:21 < Laurenceb> I linked it up to bluetooth so I could wirelessly flash one project
2020-01-21T17:36:30 < Laurenceb> yes
2020-01-21T17:37:18 < karlp> there's functionality in the rom of stm32s that does ~much of this, with the boot0 pin, and the rom bootloader, 
2020-01-21T17:37:41 < karlp> whether the pin you're using using as a "boot jumper" and "remote upgrade" are using the rom bootloader, or another application bootloader are unclear however :)
2020-01-21T17:38:22 < karlp> if "remote reflash" just means via the stm32prog uart programming or dfu-util, then that sounds like the rom bootloader.
2020-01-21T17:38:47 < karlp> if it's anything else, it might be some board/application bootloader (in which case you would be able to change it)
2020-01-21T17:39:22 < nn7> this is either with my stlinkv2 or the dfu-util
2020-01-21T17:39:41 < karlp> well, the stlink is another path altogether.
2020-01-21T17:39:58 < nn7> that uses debugger pins, right?
2020-01-21T17:40:38 < karlp> correct.
2020-01-21T17:41:17 < nn7> OK. So RDP level 1 blocks the debugger and blocks access with the ROM bootloader
2020-01-21T17:41:46 < nn7> but I can modify the option bits to set that back to level 0 (which wipes the chip)
2020-01-21T17:41:54 < karlp> this is normally described in the reference manual in chapter 2, memory and bus architecture -> boot configuration
2020-01-21T17:42:27 < karlp> yes, iirc, read prot level 1 you can still do a chip erase. this will leve you with the rom bootloader intact, yes.
2020-01-21T17:42:47 < karlp> dfu-util can also be the path used by applicaiton bootloaders too..
2020-01-21T17:42:49 < nn7> reference manual...
2020-01-21T17:42:59 < nn7> ok, that's one I don't have yet. thanks
2020-01-21T17:43:27 < karlp> the datasheet is mostly about electrical stuff, everything else is in the ref man
2020-01-21T17:44:30 < nn7> I have the Series Safety Manual, HAL, datasheet, STLINK V2 manual, programming manual, USB guidelines manual, and boot mode
2020-01-21T17:44:41 < nn7> some of these are application notes
2020-01-21T17:45:08 < nn7> thank you very much for answering my questions
2020-01-21T17:45:18 < karlp> what target are you actually using?
2020-01-21T17:45:27 < nn7> stm32f303xC
2020-01-21T17:45:50 < karlp> I think those allhave a dfu capable rom bootloader.
2020-01-21T17:46:17 < karlp> is this "boot jumper" connected to boot0 or is it somewthing else? (or, is this some private board you're hacking, or a generic dev board)
2020-01-21T17:46:26 < nn7> boot0
2020-01-21T17:46:55 < karlp> right, then you're just dealing with "normal" rom bootloader stuff.
2020-01-21T17:47:31 < karlp> bear in mind readout protection is broken, so don't go wsting too much time on it...
2020-01-21T17:47:48 < nn7> oh?
2020-01-21T17:48:29 < karlp> it will dter people, sure, but don't think of it as some magic
2020-01-21T17:48:55 < nn7> I understand. Just keeping people that buy my product from just plugging in to USB and downloading my code
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2020-01-21T17:49:35 < karlp> personally, I'd advise on giving them reasons for that not to be overly useful to them, rather than relying on readout protection.
2020-01-21T17:49:52 < karlp> you can search for breaking readout protection yourself, there's papers on it.
2020-01-21T17:50:08 < karlp> spend your time delivering value, not restrictions.
2020-01-21T17:51:18 < nn7> alrighty
2020-01-21T17:52:35 < nn7> I'm slowly migrating from ATMEGA stuff
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2020-01-21T17:57:09 < zyp> karlp, my impression is that ROP is not necessarily that easily defeated, especially not on the newer parts
2020-01-21T17:58:03 < aandrew> ROP is a pretty fucking cool technique
2020-01-21T17:58:17 < aandrew> and it's hard to circumvent
2020-01-21T17:58:45 < zyp> cool how so?
2020-01-21T17:59:10 < aandrew> zyp: building up a map of fragments that achieve what you want and then executing them
2020-01-21T17:59:35 < aandrew> you're not writing code, you're analyzing and creating a stack that achieves your goal instead
2020-01-21T17:59:39 < zyp> are you talking about a different ROP than me?
2020-01-21T18:00:20 < aandrew> oh wait you're talking readout protection, not the stack manipulation technique
2020-01-21T18:00:23 < aandrew> yes I am
2020-01-21T18:00:32 < aandrew> sorry, no coffee yet and I just saw ROP
2020-01-21T18:00:44 < aandrew> I read about ROP defeat recently though
2020-01-21T18:00:45 < aandrew> your ROP
2020-01-21T18:01:33 < aandrew> zyp: https://www.pentestpartners.com/security-blog/nrf51822-code-readout-protection-bypass-a-how-to/ IIRC
2020-01-21T18:02:28 < zyp> not sure how relevant that is for stm32, but sure
2020-01-21T18:03:15 < karlp> (I wouldn't really say f3 is "newer" part in this context either, fwiw)
2020-01-21T18:03:40 < zyp> new enough to have ROP level 2 AFAIK
2020-01-21T18:05:01 < nn7> yes it does
2020-01-21T18:05:12 < karlp> even f1 had rop level 2, 
2020-01-21T18:05:13 < zyp> aandrew, glancing through the article it seems like the protection on nrf only refuses debugger access to flash
2020-01-21T18:05:43 < zyp> on stm32, all flash access is refused when you connect a debugger to a part with ROP enabled
2020-01-21T18:05:57 < zyp> which means that code can't run and leak flash contents
2020-01-21T18:06:07 < aandrew> zyp: I read something for stm32 specific as wlel but can't find it
2020-01-21T18:06:14 < zyp> on the other hand, RAM is not protected and can be dumped
2020-01-21T18:06:14 < aandrew> zyp: that is a more thorough protection for sure
2020-01-21T18:06:36 < zyp> karlp, did it?
2020-01-21T18:09:05 < zyp> aandrew, IMO anything less can't really be called protection
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2020-01-21T18:09:52 < zyp> if you can use DMA or load up a simple loop to the cpu that just reads flash and dumps it somewhere, you can't call the flash protected
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2020-01-21T18:25:20 < srk> set $pc, cool
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2020-01-21T18:56:21 < bitmask> damn this wire is smaller than I thought, shoulda gone with 2 awg
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2020-01-21T19:07:45 < Steffanx> Hm
2020-01-21T19:10:41 < bitmask> what to do what to do
2020-01-21T19:11:24 < bitmask> I can get another turn if I take the insulation off, at least I can have more copper in there, or just try it as is
2020-01-21T19:12:34 < karlp> any context bitmask?
2020-01-21T19:12:37 < bitmask> heh
2020-01-21T19:12:46 < bitmask> microwave oven transformer into a spot welder
2020-01-21T19:12:55 < bitmask> I got 4 awg wire
2020-01-21T19:16:55 < bitmask> https://i.imgur.com/591NwXo.png
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2020-01-21T19:17:31 < karlp> why would you consider taking the insulation off?
2020-01-21T19:17:39 < karlp> how would you keep them from touching then?
2020-01-21T19:18:00 < bitmask> thinner insulation
2020-01-21T19:18:06 < karlp> and why do you want to change te turns ratio anyway?
2020-01-21T19:18:08 < bitmask> its low voltage so it doesnt need to be this thick
2020-01-21T19:18:09 < BrainDamage> you can install a thin plastic sheet
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2020-01-21T19:18:59 < bitmask> the turns ratio isnt that important, having more copper in there is apparently
2020-01-21T19:19:08 < bitmask> otherwise the magnetic flux is wasted, no?
2020-01-21T19:19:35 < BrainDamage> what
2020-01-21T19:19:45 < bitmask> doesnt more copper make it more efficient?
2020-01-21T19:20:23 < BrainDamage> yes, but "turn ratio isn't important" is just plain false, since it determines current and voltage at output
2020-01-21T19:20:39 < bitmask> yes.. i know that
2020-01-21T19:21:43 < BrainDamage> also, it isn't copper per se, rather the packing efficiency
2020-01-21T19:22:23 < bitmask> but more copper in there by making another turn is probably more important than having more empty space and a lower voltage, even though if the 'packing efficiency' were equal the lower voltage would result in higher amperage
2020-01-21T19:23:10 < BrainDamage> you do need some voltage in a spot welder to make the current going
2020-01-21T19:23:40 < bitmask> thats not the point, 1.5 turns is fine
2020-01-21T19:23:48 < bitmask> im debating 1.5 turns vs 2.5 turns
2020-01-21T19:25:09 < BrainDamage> the long and short version is that you get optimal power transfer when the resistance of the source is equal to the resistance of the load, the further apart the worse it is
2020-01-21T19:25:44 < BrainDamage> so take your probes and measure the contact resistance when applied to a load, compare to the transformer
2020-01-21T19:27:14 < bitmask> i'm just gonna try to melt a nail 
2020-01-21T19:27:30 < bitmask> actually maybe not, we'll se
2020-01-21T19:27:31 < bitmask> e
2020-01-21T19:28:32 < bitmask> saw a video of a guy in a similar situation, he could attach the ends to a nail and the nail would get red hot but never melt, he stripped the wire and added an extra turn and the nail exploded in about 1 second
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2020-01-21T19:30:30 < Cracki> melt a wrench
2020-01-21T19:33:18 -!- nnn7 is now known as nn7
2020-01-21T19:33:36 < nn7> the freenode scan harmed my computer
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2020-01-21T19:52:14 < Cracki> https://form.ingressbutthurt.com/
2020-01-21T19:53:32 < zyp> hah, haven't seen that for some years
2020-01-21T19:53:41 < zyp> do people still play ingress?
2020-01-21T20:03:03 < nn7> or use G+
2020-01-21T20:07:24 < bitmask> never heard of ingress
2020-01-21T20:07:38 < bitmask> just watched a video, not sure how I missed that, not that i would have played
2020-01-21T20:07:44 < zyp> it was all the rage before pokemon go
2020-01-21T20:10:33 < Steffanx> Didnt google kill g+?
2020-01-21T20:10:45 < zyp> yep
2020-01-21T20:11:05 < zyp> but a bunch of ingress communities used it back in the day
2020-01-21T20:11:14 < zyp> I mean, that's the only thing I ever used g+ for
2020-01-21T20:15:17 < mawk> they made me translate their application from dutch to english today Steffanx lol
2020-01-21T20:15:20 < mawk> their php application
2020-01-21T20:15:26 < mawk> I speak neither dutch nor php
2020-01-21T20:15:33 < mawk> but I guess google translate is enough
2020-01-21T20:16:02 < Steffanx> Everyone can do that. the php thing i mean
2020-01-21T20:16:11 < mawk> yeah
2020-01-21T20:16:19 < mawk> I hope they won't use that to justify giving more php shit to do
2020-01-21T20:16:25 < Steffanx> Not sure if google translate does php though
2020-01-21T20:16:29 < mawk> I will have to pretend to be very bad so they give back to me the C and python code
2020-01-21T20:18:24 < Steffanx> haha, that would be funny right? :P
2020-01-21T20:18:56 < mawk> yeah
2020-01-21T20:18:58 < mawk> if they don't fire me
2020-01-21T20:19:44 < Steffanx> its not THAT easy to fire one
2020-01-21T20:19:51 -!- tcth [~tcth@77.109.191.152] has joined ##stm32
2020-01-21T20:19:51 < mawk> well
2020-01-21T20:19:54 < mawk> it's a 1 year contract
2020-01-21T20:19:59 < mawk> they will fire me with delay
2020-01-21T20:20:08 < mawk> or keep me but don't give me the 5% raise
2020-01-21T20:20:24 < mawk> so I have to be myself but explicit about what I like to do I guess
2020-01-21T20:20:38 < Steffanx> Oui
2020-01-21T20:20:44 < mawk> bien entendu
2020-01-21T20:20:48 < mawk> absolument
2020-01-21T20:22:59 < Steffanx> Better answer my private message mawk :P
2020-01-21T20:23:22 < mawk> ah
2020-01-21T20:23:27 < mawk> too much buffers open, it was drowned
2020-01-21T20:23:31 < mawk> 69 buffers
2020-01-21T20:23:34 < Steffanx> damn, i im going on a ":P"  spree again. Dont do that.
2020-01-21T20:34:50 < Cracki> anyone notice that Ozone (v3.1 or so) has a limited amount it will capture in the Terminal (e.g. from swo) before it stops taking new data and just stands there... until you clear it
2020-01-21T20:35:13 < Cracki> nvm, settings have a data limit on terminal :S
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2020-01-21T20:36:06 < Cracki> context menu would be a good place to link to those settings
2020-01-21T20:37:31 < Cracki> so you're saying they hired you for C and then make you copy and paste strings into google translate
2020-01-21T20:37:48 < upgrayedd> anybody played with stm32g0 yet?
2020-01-21T20:38:04 < upgrayedd> if so, will the stm32f0 openocd target cfg work?
2020-01-21T20:38:39 < PaulFertser> upgrayedd: for debugging or for flashing?
2020-01-21T20:38:47 < upgrayedd> flashing
2020-01-21T20:39:03 < Cracki> looks like openocd comes with https://github.com/sysprogs/openocd/blob/master/tcl/board/st_nucleo_g0.cfg
2020-01-21T20:39:37 < Cracki> so probably also whatever you need for plain chips without nucleo pcb around them
2020-01-21T20:39:48 < upgrayedd> hrm
2020-01-21T20:39:56 < upgrayedd> i'm using openocd-git but this sysprogs shit looks different
2020-01-21T20:39:58 < PaulFertser> upgrayedd: http://openocd.zylin.com/#/c/4807/ you'll need this
2020-01-21T20:39:59 < upgrayedd> like a fork
2020-01-21T20:40:33 < Cracki> good point... anyway, they also have tcl/target/stm32g0x.cfg so you could steal that or check if your openocd has it too?
2020-01-21T20:40:43 < upgrayedd> mine does not
2020-01-21T20:40:47 < upgrayedd> i'm using the upstream
2020-01-21T20:40:56 < PaulFertser> Cracki: unfortunately, config files are not enough for flashing
2020-01-21T20:41:00 < upgrayedd> so i'll use this proprietary sysprogs nonsense then :)
2020-01-21T20:41:03 < PaulFertser> upgrayedd: just grab that additional patch
2020-01-21T20:41:12 < PaulFertser> upgrayedd: nope, please help test upstream instead
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2020-01-21T20:41:15 < upgrayedd> VisualGB!
2020-01-21T20:41:21 < upgrayedd> sounds like some windowz pakistani stuff
2020-01-21T20:41:25 < Cracki> it is.
2020-01-21T20:41:40 < aandrew> "fire me with delay" hahaha
2020-01-21T20:42:03 < aandrew> well ingress is the tech behind pokemon go
2020-01-21T20:42:43 < Cracki> around here ppl called it pokemongo
2020-01-21T20:43:03 < Cracki> and those that played ingress also played it
2020-01-21T20:44:19 < zyp> also those that didn't play ingress
2020-01-21T20:44:39 < upgrayedd> is there a reason stm32g0[43]1?6* stm32g0 ROM=32K RAM=8K isn't stm32g0[43][01]?6
2020-01-21T20:44:45 < Cracki> btw, I gave my customer new rates. he was outraged at the "arbitrary" price hike and huffed out the door (I imagine)
2020-01-21T20:45:06 < Cracki>  stm32g0[43]1?6*
2020-01-21T20:45:09 < Cracki> stm32g0[43][01]?6
2020-01-21T20:45:32 < upgrayedd> libopencm3/ld/devices.data doesn't have a case for stm32g030 only stm32g031
2020-01-21T20:45:38 < Cracki> looks odd, how is that one digit optional
2020-01-21T20:45:41 < PaulFertser> upgrayedd: do you need any help applying a patch from Gerrit?
2020-01-21T20:45:58 < Cracki> 6*, so like 6666 is allowed?
2020-01-21T20:46:02 < upgrayedd> PaulFertser: nah i don't even have the part until tomorrow
2020-01-21T20:46:04 < zyp> Cracki, the ?-spot is package
2020-01-21T20:46:15 < zyp> or pincount rather
2020-01-21T20:46:25 < upgrayedd> Cracki: that's because sometimes people put the whole part number from the actual chip in
2020-01-21T20:46:28 < zyp> which usually doesn't affect the build
2020-01-21T20:46:30 < Cracki> so ST isn't that strict about its own codes?
2020-01-21T20:47:10 < upgrayedd> stm32g031k6lgbtqwxyz
2020-01-21T20:47:16 < Cracki> but it says 6*
2020-01-21T20:47:21 < Cracki> that means 666666...
2020-01-21T20:47:24 < Cracki> or empty string
2020-01-21T20:47:44 < upgrayedd> it's glob not regex tho
2020-01-21T20:47:52 < Cracki> ah
2020-01-21T20:48:28 < Cracki> ... so ? isn't a modifier of 1 or [01] but equivalent to '.'
2020-01-21T20:48:34 < upgrayedd> i'll tell libopencm3 it's stm32g031 even though the part is really g030. i don't think it will matter.
2020-01-21T20:48:46 < zyp> Cracki, it's not regex
2020-01-21T20:48:50 -!- jsoft [~jsoft@unaffiliated/jsoft] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds]
2020-01-21T20:48:55 < Cracki> yes I got that
2020-01-21T20:49:04 < zyp> so yes, ? would be regex . and * would be regex .*
2020-01-21T21:03:29 < upgrayedd> oh lol i need to write usart driver g0
2020-01-21T21:32:37 < qyx> just copy it
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2020-01-21T21:49:52 < Cracki> ST keeps disappointing. pulled cubeF3 v1.11 and they fucked up the templates... assert_failed takes uint8_t* in the definition and char* in the declaration. that wasn't so in v1.10. at least that template can be edited (where cube hides its template files)
2020-01-21T21:50:32 < Cracki> oh, might not have been cubef3 but cubemx itself
2020-01-21T21:56:36 < specing> don't tell jan
2020-01-21T21:58:03 < PaulFertser> Cracki: stlinkv3 doesn't see to be able to connect to any non-ST cortex-m parts. Those parts that stlink-v2 works nicely with.
2020-01-21T21:58:13 < Cracki> kek
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2020-01-21T21:58:39 < PaulFertser> It's not know yet for sure but chances are that's on purpose. To fuck with the customers.
2020-01-21T21:59:25 < Cracki> I'm thinking there's no upside to any stlink except they're dirt cheap. I'm glad I have something that's compatible with Segger Ozone
2020-01-21T21:59:57 < Cracki> segger said they'd look into jlink ob fw for stlinkv3 circuitry for some dev boards. not sure that translates to standalone stlinkv3
2020-01-21T22:00:05 < PaulFertser> Cheap, and present on nucleo boards
2020-01-21T22:00:25 < Cracki> cheap and available, total marriage material
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2020-01-21T22:01:23 < Cracki> I don't even have to give boss a stink because we chose an F3 and that has DFU and he can get his minions to program those with cubeprog
2020-01-21T22:01:46 < PaulFertser> Program but not debug.
2020-01-21T22:01:53 < Cracki> right
2020-01-21T22:02:01 < Cracki> but he doesn't need more than that anyway
2020-01-21T22:02:32 < Cracki> in turn I don't bother him too much about his layouting :P
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2020-01-21T22:32:24 < qyx> > and he can get his minions to program those with cubeprog
2020-01-21T22:32:28 < qyx> lol'd irl
2020-01-21T22:36:56 -!- veegee [~veegee@ipagstaticip-3d3f7614-22f3-5b69-be13-7ab4b2c585d9.sdsl.bell.ca] has joined ##stm32
2020-01-21T22:40:32 < Cracki> well it's one minion and he enslaved it with a ring and cubeprog even seems to have a mode where you keep plugging chips in rom boot mode and it sees and flashes them
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2020-01-21T22:45:52 < Cracki> angry banana https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iC1lRO1xMZg
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2020-01-21T23:02:46 < Thorn> qyx: have you worked with sx1231?
2020-01-21T23:05:15 < qyx> yes
2020-01-21T23:05:23 < qyx> it is the one in rfm69, isnt it
2020-01-21T23:05:52 < Thorn> yes it is
2020-01-21T23:06:06 < Thorn> how different is it from sx1276 in fsk mode?
2020-01-21T23:06:50 < Thorn> I understand the registers and operation are mostly the same?
2020-01-21T23:07:35 < qyx> I didn't use sx1276, so idk, but feom the docs they look different
2020-01-21T23:08:33 -!- fenugrec [~fenugrec@97.107.220.18] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds]
2020-01-21T23:08:51 < qyx> even sx1231 and rf69 aren't the same, they are in different packages and iirc rf69 had some additional registers
2020-01-21T23:09:17 < qyx> but they both work with the same driver for me
2020-01-21T23:15:24 < Thorn> I believe there's a higher power version of sx1231 used in rfm69hw or something like that, that's the one with extra registers
2020-01-21T23:15:50 < Thorn> yeah the register map looks mostly similar but definitely not identical
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2020-01-21T23:28:21 < Laurenceb> America can just btfo the virus with guns.
2020-01-21T23:31:53 < upgrayedd> ok cool i hax0red in usart for stm32g0 in libopencm3
2020-01-21T23:32:01 < upgrayedd> but can't test it until the weekend
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2020-01-21T23:35:24 < upgrayedd> keep in mind that stm32g0[34][01]?[46] is afaik the only so8n package ST makes
2020-01-21T23:35:56 < upgrayedd> they have 32kb and run at 64mhz (one has 16kb rom). all have 8kb ram
2020-01-21T23:36:39 < upgrayedd> and they do this awesome peripheral multiplexing shit with only 5 usable gpio so you can have all the AFs like the big ones
2020-01-21T23:37:16 < upgrayedd> i.e. it's the arm badass version of an attiny but faster, more rom, and less power
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2020-01-21T23:39:48 < Cracki> noted
2020-01-21T23:40:43 < zyp> but why bother with so8n when it consumes almost as much area as the qfp ones?
2020-01-21T23:41:15 < upgrayedd> because so8n are easy to hand solder for noobs
2020-01-21T23:41:32 < upgrayedd> thus they could make great replacements for attiny - which suck ballz
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2020-01-21T23:48:59 < Laurenceb> >imagine being this shit at soldering
2020-01-21T23:49:08 < Steffanx> where is tom66 when you need him
2020-01-21T23:49:16 < Laurenceb> keeeekkk
2020-01-21T23:49:17 < Steffanx> or whatever his name was. Ask dongs
2020-01-21T23:49:22 < Laurenceb> yeah tom66
2020-01-21T23:49:45 < karlp> fucking hub layout is unfun.
2020-01-21T23:49:52 < Steffanx> dont fuck it sir.
2020-01-21T23:50:15 < karlp> this is what you get for autism
2020-01-21T23:50:42 < zyp> karlp, isn't layout the most fun part?
2020-01-21T23:51:53 < zyp> IMO the unfun part of design is making all the small decisions to be made to complete the schematic, once schematic is complete, layout is just puzzle-solving
2020-01-21T23:52:41 < karlp> I actually struggle more with the layout.
2020-01-21T23:52:56 < karlp> want some kicad files? :)
2020-01-21T23:53:22 < karlp> bright side, pcb calculators all convince me that the microchip ref design massively overspecced the vbus lines.
2020-01-21T23:54:47 < karlp> I think finding a case for it and then making the pcb bigger might be saner but fuck it.
--- Day changed Wed Jan 22 2020
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2020-01-22T00:40:12 < zyp> if it were altium I might have offered to do the layout, but I think having to learn another pcb soft detracts from the fun :p
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2020-01-22T00:40:40 < greenail> hello, are stm32duino questions welcomed here?
2020-01-22T00:41:24 < zyp> feel free to ask, but I can't guarantee anybody knows the answers :)
2020-01-22T00:41:24 < greenail> I am trying to use an interrupt to count a spindle RPM (<10krpm), a timer to measure PWM, and the servo lib.
2020-01-22T00:41:39 < greenail> i'm wondering if that is something that should work (cause it ain't workin)
2020-01-22T00:42:00 < zyp> interrupt as in EXTI?
2020-01-22T00:42:09 < greenail> I have each piece working, but putting all 3 in the same code results in a very wonky servo signlal.
2020-01-22T00:42:29 < specing> greenail: schematic?
2020-01-22T00:42:31 < greenail> it is a FALLING type
2020-01-22T00:42:48 < greenail> specing: for the wiring?
2020-01-22T00:42:58 < zyp> why wouldn't you use a timer to count RPM as well?
2020-01-22T00:43:18 < greenail> zyp: i tried but it was freezing
2020-01-22T00:43:18 < specing> greenail: wiring? For whatever it is you have attached to stm32. 
2020-01-22T00:43:43 < greenail> specing: I don't have a schematic handy, lemme paste up my code.... one sec
2020-01-22T00:43:43 < specing> greenail: because I see "to measure PWM" and I don't understand what PWM you are measuring
2020-01-22T00:43:53 < specing> no pleease no more C++
2020-01-22T00:44:02 < zyp> haha
2020-01-22T00:44:23 < greenail> https://gist.github.com/jschoch/9afa3cf07b9ed465835f262ef394956b
2020-01-22T00:44:33 < greenail> specing: I have a esp32 that is generating PWM
2020-01-22T00:45:08 < greenail> essentially i'm turning a knob on a physical spindle controller.  The esp32 is running grbl and will output a PWM signal based on M3 commands.
2020-01-22T00:45:19 < greenail> If the machine faults I want the servo to turn the spindle off.
2020-01-22T00:45:29 < greenail> by turning the physical knob
2020-01-22T00:45:38 < greenail> the PWM is working very nicely
2020-01-22T00:45:49 < greenail> the servo works standalone
2020-01-22T00:46:27 < specing> servo for turning a pot???
2020-01-22T00:46:28 < greenail> and RPM is not wired in yet, but it will be an IR proximity sensor (TCRT 5000) 
2020-01-22T00:46:30 < specing> in 2020?
2020-01-22T00:46:34 < greenail> specing: yes
2020-01-22T00:46:45 < greenail> the internal controller has GND floating > 100v
2020-01-22T00:46:51 < specing> ah, ok
2020-01-22T00:47:00 < specing> wait, why
2020-01-22T00:47:02 < greenail> i already have noise issues with my stepper drivers and I'd like to keep that box closed
2020-01-22T00:47:15 < greenail> the old spindle controller has the wonky ground on the pot
2020-01-22T00:47:22 < specing> Anyway
2020-01-22T00:47:45 < specing> you could have one timer count based on pin change and another timer feeding it the timestamp signal
2020-01-22T00:47:49 < greenail> I'd also like to be able to turn the spindle on by hand since I'd like to be able to use the mill in manual mode
2020-01-22T00:48:14 < greenail> right know the issue is with the servo signal
2020-01-22T00:48:33 < greenail> without the existing timer code I can see a good pulse on the servo pin with my oscope
2020-01-22T00:48:53 < greenail> with the timer there is nothing that looks like a servo pulse, lots of noise though.
2020-01-22T00:49:34 < zyp> maybe it's a conflict, between which timers you use
2020-01-22T00:49:41 < greenail> I can live without the RPM interrupt, but it doesn't do anything right know so I'm not sure how that would impact my servo signal
2020-01-22T00:49:51 < zyp> e.g. servo lib trying to use the same timer as your other code
2020-01-22T00:50:03 < greenail> the stm32duino uses "TIMER_SERVO" which i believe is one of the output only timers
2020-01-22T00:50:27 < greenail> oh, i forgot that I am also using an i2c display
2020-01-22T00:50:27 < zyp> this is stm32, there's no output only timers
2020-01-22T00:50:33 < greenail> that may be causing an issue
2020-01-22T00:50:45 < greenail> let me look up the timers used
2020-01-22T00:51:17 < greenail> https://github.com/stm32duino/wiki/wiki/HardwareTimer-library
2020-01-22T00:51:35 < greenail> "TIM6 and TIM7 doesn't have outpin and this is the reason why, when available, they are used to implement Tone and Servo."
2020-01-22T00:52:00 < zyp> I don't understand what that sentence means
2020-01-22T00:52:06 < greenail> #define TIMER_SERVO             TIM7
2020-01-22T00:52:19 < greenail> zyp: sorry, that is their docs
2020-01-22T00:52:35 < greenail> I don't believe PA1 on the blue pill uses TIM7
2020-01-22T00:52:51 < greenail> it is mapped to T2C2
2020-01-22T00:54:05 < greenail> here is the servo library https://github.com/stm32duino/Arduino_Core_STM32/blob/11857b8a54612aeb15eb00c4cc1b9672f64ab4c0/libraries/Servo/src/stm32/Servo.cpp
2020-01-22T00:54:33 < zyp> so how does servo.attach() work? does it set up a timer interrupt that bitbangs the servo signal, instead of using output compare?
2020-01-22T00:54:50 < greenail> i believe it uses output compare
2020-01-22T00:55:12 < greenail> TimerServo.setMode(1, TIMER_OUTPUT_COMPARE, NC);
2020-01-22T00:56:06 < zyp> to fire the interrupt sure, but not as a direct output, I guess
2020-01-22T00:56:10 < zyp> if it's using TIM7
2020-01-22T00:56:37 < greenail> nothing jumps out to me as conflicting
2020-01-22T00:56:40 < greenail> i'm stumped
2020-01-22T00:57:12 < zyp> right, here's the function that bitbangs stuff: https://github.com/stm32duino/Arduino_Core_STM32/blob/11857b8a54612aeb15eb00c4cc1b9672f64ab4c0/libraries/Servo/src/stm32/Servo.cpp#L43
2020-01-22T00:58:21 < zyp> okay, so it's not a conflict and it's interrupt driven, so it shouldn't really be affected by other code, if I'm reading it correctly
2020-01-22T00:58:29 < greenail> maybe it is the i2c device?  seems odd since I only update the display ever 200ms
2020-01-22T00:58:32 < zyp> as long as other code doesn't block the interrupt
2020-01-22T01:00:11 < greenail> so I should be able to do the 4 things i've outlined?  Count RPM singals, drive the i2c display, measure PWM input, and drive a servo
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2020-01-22T01:10:53 < greenail> what is wierd is the servo write works in my setup loop before i initialize the timer and after i attach the interrupt
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2020-01-22T01:12:23 < greenail> i'm gonging to try to pause the timer before i call servo.write
2020-01-22T01:16:53 < Simon--> hmmm ;) https://i.ebayimg.com/images/g/7VsAAOSwd3xcUm2F/s-l500.jpg
2020-01-22T01:19:44 < zyp> haha
2020-01-22T01:20:06 < Simon--> also, does anybody make a good cheap rogowski coil style probe with integrator and bnc output that isn't $2000?
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2020-01-22T01:56:45 < karlp> what sort of range? and what sort of accuracy? and bnc, but what sort of signal?
2020-01-22T01:57:15 < karlp> zyp: well, this is the joy.  pcb packages are shitty walled gardens.
2020-01-22T01:59:52 < karlp> and do you really mean spring clamp like that? or doe you mean explicitly rogowski?
2020-01-22T02:02:35 < zyp> karlp, idk, I've seen people do schematics in one soft and export netlists for people doing layout in another soft
2020-01-22T02:04:05 < zyp> the subcontractor that designed the electronics for my workstuff did all the schematics in altium, and then they outsourced the layout to some other guy
2020-01-22T02:04:34 < zyp> I don't remember what tool that was, but I had to use some weird viewer when I wanted to browse the layout
2020-01-22T02:06:48 < zyp> so I guess in theory you could give me a netlist, but then I'd still have to do footprints for whatever parts I don't already got :p
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2020-01-22T02:47:43 < aandrew> hm anyone here seen/heard of the rtl8722dm? $3 module does bt5/2.4g/5g
2020-01-22T02:48:03 < aandrew> devboard here: https://buy-lcd.com/development-board-millimeter-wave-radar-smart-home-rtl8722dm-88-pin-p0321.html
2020-01-22T02:49:51 < englishman> mm wave wut
2020-01-22T02:51:39 < aandrew> yeah link is lol
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2020-01-22T03:45:58 < Laurenceb> https://www.amazon.co.uk/Taken-T-Rex-Dinosaur-Erotica-Christie-ebook/dp/B00FI9JFFO
2020-01-22T03:54:15 < aandrew> yeah I"m not clicking that link
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2020-01-22T05:16:44 < qyx> re: my led energy harvesting, I ordered some BPW34 diodes, they make Uoc 0.4V, Isc around 800uA when illuminated with my torch
2020-01-22T05:17:08 < qyx> datasheet says up to 80uA at 1000lx
2020-01-22T05:18:39 < qyx> two of them in series should be usable with BQ25505 or SPV1050
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2020-01-22T05:30:15 < qyx> wiki states 1,000 - 2,000 Lux Typical overcast day, midday
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2020-01-22T06:01:29 < Laurenceb> dinosaur porn anyone?
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2020-01-22T10:46:34 < qyx> measured the BPW34 on a foggy overcast day outdoors, 0.43V, 55uA, so definitely usable
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2020-01-22T11:40:04 < karlp> aandrew: only saw same family here: https://www.cnx-software.com/2020/01/17/realtek-rtl8720dn-dual-band-wifi-bluetooth-5-0-iot-module/ but no experience with it.
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2020-01-22T11:40:51 < karlp> zyp: yeah, I know it gets done, but it's still a pig, and it doesn't allow any changes to the netlist. like, I'm still shuffling usb ports to get the layout, as the ports themselves are all interchangeable.
2020-01-22T11:42:08 < karlp> qyx: that's a $1 led! I thought you were looking at cheap leds
2020-01-22T11:42:17 < karlp> s/led/photodiode/
2020-01-22T11:44:50 < zyp> true
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2020-01-22T13:06:58 < karlp> received a 7 port usb 3 hub, that I'd bought because it came with a "proper" power supply.
2020-01-22T13:07:03 < karlp> it's only rated for 1A.
2020-01-22T13:07:06 < karlp> nice one.
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2020-01-22T13:51:43 < zyp> haha
2020-01-22T13:56:39 < zyp> karlp, by the way, are you doing 2L or 4L?
2020-01-22T14:01:53 < karlp> well, it's 2 at the moment, but it would probably be substantially easier to get the "right" diff impedence on 4 layer.
2020-01-22T14:02:04 < karlp> which is again, "autism overload"
2020-01-22T14:02:53 < zyp> yeah, my next question was how much you've bothered with impedance :)
2020-01-22T14:03:13 < zyp> running transmission lines on 2L tends to turn into very wide traces
2020-01-22T14:07:11 < karlp> my gut tells me that it might not matter as much in practice, given the quality of usb2 parts these days, and I'd likely only have problems with older usb2 devices that were more on the edge, but... if you're going to do it, do it right I guess.
2020-01-22T14:09:00 < qyx> karlp: it is 0.3e on tme.eu
2020-01-22T14:09:12 < qyx> and yeah the main sensor is done using 200 LEDs
2020-01-22T14:09:33 < qyx> but those are unable to generate enough photocurrent to keep the thing working
2020-01-22T14:10:07 < qyx> so I plan to use additional two BPW34s to power it
2020-01-22T14:13:38 < karlp> what advantage does 200 leds have?
2020-01-22T14:13:40 < karlp> what is this for?
2020-01-22T14:14:21 < englishman> He saw a free energy video on YouTube
2020-01-22T14:15:06 < qyx> google for peep sensor
2020-01-22T14:17:10 < karlp> I don't remotely understand how what I'm finding on erosion monitoring relates to using 200 leds for power harvesting?
2020-01-22T14:17:27 < BrainDamage> I guess he wants to use the 200 leds on the stick
2020-01-22T14:17:36 < qyx> no, 200 leds are on the stick
2020-01-22T14:17:55 < qyx> legacy erosion pins have nocomplex electronics inside
2020-01-22T14:18:12 < qyx> if I want to have something inside, incl. the radio
2020-01-22T14:18:18 < qyx> I need power
2020-01-22T14:18:42 < qyx> one of the possibilities of getting enough power is to harvest some from the sensor LEDs themselves
2020-01-22T14:19:02 < qyx> but they are not enough
2020-01-22T14:19:19 < qyx> yes, I could use photodiodes instead of LEDs
2020-01-22T14:19:33 < karlp> they're using leds at the moment because they happen to work and are cheaper?
2020-01-22T14:19:36 < qyx> but then the whjole thing would be >100e
2020-01-22T14:19:52 < qyx> they are using photodiodes, I plan to use LEDs
2020-01-22T14:20:50 < karlp> aren't photodiodes better at both sensing andproviding you with current?
2020-01-22T14:21:05 < BrainDamage> yes
2020-01-22T14:21:34 < qyx> of course, the main motivation is reducing cost as your pins may easily become lost
2020-01-22T14:21:45 < karlp> so this is just because 200 leds "works" and is cheaper than 10 or whatever diodes you need, to get the resolution along the stick?
2020-01-22T14:22:06 < qyx> yes
2020-01-22T14:22:44 < BrainDamage> how long are the sticks usually?
2020-01-22T14:23:53 < qyx> theirs were 60cm, 20cm sensing length only, 5-10mm resolution
2020-01-22T14:24:17 < qyx> connected with a cable
2020-01-22T14:24:36 < qyx> 12mm diameter iirc
2020-01-22T14:25:02 < BrainDamage> how many leds in a row do you plan to have?
2020-01-22T14:28:26 < qyx> I should be able to put 192 in the whole sensor, probably in a groups of 4
2020-01-22T14:29:45 < qyx> thats the actual question, because using bigger detectors there may be steps
2020-01-22T14:30:33 < BrainDamage> what's the update rate?
2020-01-22T14:30:44 < qyx> it looks like using multiple smaller sensors gives more linear output
2020-01-22T14:30:56 < BrainDamage> if you can update over the arc of few days, sun's angle becomes less important
2020-01-22T14:31:12 < qyx> around once per hour
2020-01-22T14:31:31 < qyx> yeah they had those problems too
2020-01-22T14:31:40 < qyx> the data would need some posprocessing probably
2020-01-22T14:32:35 < BrainDamage> the problem with big sensors is the critical angleof the light
2020-01-22T14:32:49 < BrainDamage> as in, your sensor will sunset faster than a small one
2020-01-22T14:34:16 < BrainDamage> I guess you can easily test that with a torch
2020-01-22T14:38:00 < qyx> I'll see how it behaves, I have a prototype WIP
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2020-01-22T15:35:28 < karlp> BrainDamage: you italians sure have a way with webdesign! https://www.elmod.it/
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2020-01-22T18:09:28 < bitmask> anyone know if shipping still continues in china for the holiday?
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2020-01-22T18:54:35 < invzim> bitmask: jlcpcb has a nice overview, https://support.jlcpcb.com/article/73-jlcpcb-spring-festival-holiday-schedule
2020-01-22T18:55:18 < invzim> in practice, I think pretty much everything is shut down this and next week
2020-01-22T18:55:50 < bitmask> boo
2020-01-22T18:56:15 < invzim> for example, I have a quote going, they answer mail etc, but a sub-suplier is shut down
2020-01-22T18:58:34 < bitmask> one of my packages was shipped on the 17th, one on the 20th
2020-01-22T18:58:43 < bitmask> looks like I gotta wait
2020-01-22T18:59:00 < bitmask> last update was two days ago saying processed through facility 
2020-01-22T18:59:12 < invzim> picking up a new toy today, https://www.peaktech.de/productdetail/kategorie/schaltnetzteile/produkt/peaktech-6227.html
2020-01-22T18:59:26 < invzim> should do wonders in restoring order to my desk
2020-01-22T18:59:42 < bitmask> nice, I still dont have any power supplies like that
2020-01-22T18:59:44 < invzim> switched, so should be quiet
2020-01-22T19:00:00 < bitmask> I wanted a linear one but maybe I should just get a switcher to have something
2020-01-22T19:00:16 < invzim> got this one for 'serious work', https://www.batronix.com/shop/power-supplies/DP831.html
2020-01-22T19:00:30 < invzim> but takes a little time to boot, has a fan, and no usb ports
2020-01-22T19:00:36 < bitmask> jesus
2020-01-22T19:01:10 < bitmask> what about that usb device port on the back?
2020-01-22T19:01:23 < bitmask> or host
2020-01-22T19:01:25 < invzim> he, it's a host, for usb sgticks
2020-01-22T19:01:42 < bitmask> ahh
2020-01-22T19:01:48 < invzim> this new one is just for stuff and gadgets on my desk, charging the mouse et :)
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2020-01-22T19:08:08 < bitmask> guess I have time to figure out how I want to house the spot welder
2020-01-22T19:08:11 < Laurenceb> >when someone says "social construct" you know they are full of shit, so remind them that human rights are a social construct and then kill them
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2020-01-22T19:42:13 < invzim> wow this thing is not bad, even came with a certificate of calibration
2020-01-22T19:43:25 < invzim> fanless on low load
2020-01-22T19:44:28 < zyp> I don't see the point of the USB ports
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2020-01-22T19:45:30 < invzim> lots of stuff is powered via micro-usb
2020-01-22T19:46:08 < zyp> yeah, I have an anker powerport on my desk for stuff like that
2020-01-22T19:46:09 < invzim> it's a convenience thing.  You can't set current limit/volt on them
2020-01-22T19:46:17 < zyp> exactly
2020-01-22T19:46:29 < kakiho> lots of stuff and trash is powered via microusb
2020-01-22T19:46:47 < invzim> but it's nice to see the volt and amp on the usb, which you can on this
2020-01-22T19:46:57 < zyp> ah, that's useful at least
2020-01-22T19:46:59 < invzim> without yet-another-thingie to clutter up my desk
2020-01-22T19:47:09 < zyp> although 1A is a bit low
2020-01-22T19:47:27 < karlp> and no usb connection for sucking the data out of it for monitoring anything on it.
2020-01-22T19:47:29 < invzim> yeah, I don't think it has the brains to to smart charging etc
2020-01-22T19:47:48 < invzim> or whatever you call it on phones when they ramp up the amps
2020-01-22T19:47:51 < zyp> you don't need brains to smart charge
2020-01-22T19:48:19 < zyp> USB BC is simple as fuck, it puts all the brains in the sink
2020-01-22T19:48:39 < invzim> isn't there some voltage divider stuff?
2020-01-22T19:48:53 < zyp> and the logic is mostly «don't draw more current if voltage drops below x volts»
2020-01-22T19:49:16 < zyp> BC is plain 5V
2020-01-22T19:49:23 < invzim> for me, this thing is perfect right now - not going to do powerbank stuff
2020-01-22T19:49:55 < zyp> anyway, 60V/6A is cool enough
2020-01-22T19:49:56 < invzim> it even remembers last settings, and powers up to power-off
2020-01-22T19:50:01 < zyp> my lab supply only does 30V/3A
2020-01-22T19:50:48 < invzim> never had the use, but sure it will come in handy one day :)
2020-01-22T19:51:12 < invzim> tbh, main application for this is to do away with various shady quality barrel-jack AC adapters for stuff
2020-01-22T19:52:00 < zyp> I'm getting more into usb-c for stuff
2020-01-22T19:53:21 < invzim> I should look into that at one point
2020-01-22T19:53:41 < invzim> there must be, or will be, a one-chip thingie for that
2020-01-22T19:54:11 < zyp> for what?
2020-01-22T19:54:17 < invzim> power negotiation and whatnot
2020-01-22T19:54:36 < zyp> sure, the newest stm32s got a peripheral for that
2020-01-22T19:54:50 < zyp> but you don't need that for basic use
2020-01-22T19:55:01 < qyx> g0 \o/
2020-01-22T19:55:12 < invzim> I think I would prefer a dedicated chip to keep complexity down, with ESD protection diodes etc etc built in
2020-01-22T19:55:16 < zyp> a usb-c socket and two resistors makes a drop in replacement for a micro-b socket
2020-01-22T19:55:26 < zyp> uh
2020-01-22T19:55:53 < zyp> depending on what you wanna do, adding a dedicated chip for whatever sounds like increasing complexity to me :p
2020-01-22T19:56:43 < invzim> cortex peripherals/cube-mx/st software is not in itself simple :)
2020-01-22T19:56:56 < invzim> but may seem that way if you're super intimate with it
2020-01-22T19:57:35 < BrainDamage> a dedicated chip gives you flexibility to swap the uc, but other than that, I don't see how it'd make things simpler
2020-01-22T19:57:39 < zyp> dunno, I generally don't dick around with st software
2020-01-22T19:58:15 < zyp> IME talking to a peripheral is about as hard as talking to a dedicated chip
2020-01-22T19:58:32 < zyp> not much difference between memory mapped registers and spi/i2c/whatever mapped registers
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2020-01-22T21:13:47 < mawk> how do you add memory mapped peripherals to a stm32 ?
2020-01-22T21:14:29 < zyp> add?
2020-01-22T21:14:39 < mawk> memory mapped external chips
2020-01-22T21:14:44 < zyp> FSMC
2020-01-22T21:14:54 < mawk> ah
2020-01-22T21:14:56 < mawk> I see
2020-01-22T21:16:14 < mawk> even for non memory chips
2020-01-22T21:16:28 < zyp> https://bin.jvnv.net/file/48xnA.JPG <- e.g. like this
2020-01-22T21:16:47 < zyp> that's a fpga on a board plugged into the FSMC headers of a devboard
2020-01-22T21:17:36 < mawk> nice
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2020-01-22T21:30:14 < srk> I have a noname chinese f103 board with fmc display iirc
2020-01-22T21:35:18 < zyp> yeah, the header in the upper right corner of my devboard is also for FSMC-mapped display
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2020-01-22T21:42:17 < srk> which fpga is that?
2020-01-22T21:43:20 < zyp> spartan 3a IIRC
2020-01-22T21:52:15 < Steffanx> how much vhdl/verilog/whatever did you end up writing for that zyp?
2020-01-22T21:54:27 < qyx> he wrote ada and then translated to vhdl
2020-01-22T21:54:39 < Steffanx> ofcourse, we all would. gotta make specing happy
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2020-01-22T22:07:57 < specing> just stop using C already
2020-01-22T22:08:25 < zyp> qyx, no, python
2020-01-22T22:09:13 < qyx> oh the python hdl thing?
2020-01-22T22:09:19 < qyx> I have seen it once
2020-01-22T22:09:21 < zyp> I made a FSMC slave to wishbone master translator in migen and hooked it up to some block ram for testing
2020-01-22T22:09:30 < zyp> got it to work
2020-01-22T22:09:41 < zyp> and then I never really got started on implementing what I actually meant to
2020-01-22T22:15:29 < Steffanx> heh
2020-01-22T23:32:53 < karlp> does altium have a thing that lets you set like design rules for a netclass, but still lets you connect that to pads that might be smaller?
2020-01-22T23:33:23 < karlp> like, I'm trying to set a rule for the usb diff pairs, and it won't taper them to connect to the pads, it just won't connect them.
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2020-01-22T23:46:58 < zyp> karlp, minimum vs preferred width?
2020-01-22T23:47:14 < zyp> hang on, let me fire it up and check
2020-01-22T23:48:19 < karlp> yeah, that would be all it needs..
2020-01-22T23:48:27 < karlp> kicad only seems to have "this net must have this width"
2020-01-22T23:48:35 < karlp> and it's like, umm.. that's not going to be real useful
2020-01-22T23:48:43 < qyx> i was not able to do that in kikecad
2020-01-22T23:49:13 < zyp> https://bin.jvnv.net/file/t9vRF.png <- here's how I've got mine configured
2020-01-22T23:49:31 < zyp> my pads are wider than the trace, so I haven't had a need to reduce the minimum
2020-01-22T23:49:42 < qyx> also clearance between traces of a pair vs. between traces and fills
2020-01-22T23:50:35 < zyp> that's no problem at all, altium lets you define a separate clearance rule for any arbitrary combination of objects
--- Day changed Thu Jan 23 2020
2020-01-23T00:07:21 < Cracki> wew https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=O-52enqUSNw
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2020-01-23T00:11:26 < zyp> found somebody that's doing something similar to me: https://www.crowdsupply.com/plugg-ee-labs/juicyboard
2020-01-23T00:11:51 < zyp> although that's more specialized
2020-01-23T00:18:19 < aandrew> I think the idea of using card connectors on something intended for robotics is hilarious
2020-01-23T00:18:53 < Steffanx> Why?
2020-01-23T00:18:57 < zyp> why?
2020-01-23T00:19:03 < qyx> why?
2020-01-23T00:19:06 < aandrew> with proper case design like a PC and a way to lock the boards in place mechanically it's ok
2020-01-23T00:19:25 < aandrew> but those connectors aren't meant for vibration or dirt/dust/etc.
2020-01-23T00:20:03 < qyx> yeah order a railways-certified vibration-proof 19" 3U/6U eurorack
2020-01-23T00:20:05 < aandrew> not to mention you probably want hard gold fingers which is additional board cost
2020-01-23T00:20:24 < qyx> made exactly for such applications :>
2020-01-23T00:20:27 < aandrew> qyx: is that the correct form factor, and are those cards designed to be locked down?
2020-01-23T00:20:43 < aandrew> qyx: no, not the rack, the "juicyboard" and the peripheral cards
2020-01-23T00:20:55 < zyp> aandrew, the stuff qyx is doing is
2020-01-23T00:21:09 < qyx> wait what, I am lost now
2020-01-23T00:21:11 < aandrew> if there's a metal rail that lays across all the adapter boards maybe it's ok
2020-01-23T00:21:30 < aandrew> https://www.crowdsupply.com/img/a6a7/r1000a-case1-1_png_project-body.jpg
2020-01-23T00:21:35 < aandrew> I don't see a way to mechanically lock those down
2020-01-23T00:22:32 < qyx> yay you are right, I was just saying that reusing a readily available mechanical platform gives you the benefit of saving your time
2020-01-23T00:22:48 < zyp> for my stuff I'm planning on a standardized height, similar to that, so an enclosure could have a lid keeping stuff in place
2020-01-23T00:23:01 < aandrew> zyp: you wan tto screw the boards down to something too don't you?
2020-01-23T00:23:07 < qyx> and has all features you mentioned
2020-01-23T00:23:08 < aandrew> and a mounting rail to keep them from pulling up maybe
2020-01-23T00:23:20 < aandrew> anyway I'm just a grumpy old man :-)
2020-01-23T00:23:55 < zyp> aandrew, I'm not sure if I do want that, it consumes board area
2020-01-23T00:24:19 < aandrew> you want them mechanically fixed, the connector is not meant to do that
2020-01-23T00:24:42 < aandrew> if the case provides a way then you're good, but now all your cards must be the same height
2020-01-23T00:24:51 < zyp> I've considered adding mounting holes so I can screw the boards to each other with spacers, but that'll also consume area
2020-01-23T00:25:07 < aandrew> dunno, something like microfit 3 with latches is probably a better route
2020-01-23T00:25:27 < qyx> microfit board-to-board is nearly unobtainable
2020-01-23T00:25:40 < aandrew> really? that must have changed over the last few years
2020-01-23T00:25:45 < zyp> sounds expensive and impractical for highspeed signals
2020-01-23T00:25:48 < aandrew> I successfully used them in a microscopy application
2020-01-23T00:25:52 < qyx> iirc TE makes compatible
2020-01-23T00:26:17 < zyp> and my stuff isn't really targetting vibration environments anyway
2020-01-23T00:26:20 < qyx> https://www.molex.com/mx_upload/family/microfit_30/MicroFit_BMI_Family_hpi.jpg
2020-01-23T00:26:24 < aandrew> 19" eurorack is awfully wide for robotics too :-)
2020-01-23T00:26:27 < qyx> those blind-mating stuff you mean?
2020-01-23T00:26:29 < zyp> I mean, I wouldn't rule it out, but still
2020-01-23T00:26:30 < qyx> *this
2020-01-23T00:26:33 < aandrew> qyx: yes those
2020-01-23T00:27:03 < qyx> I am using 3U eurorack of 2U size
2020-01-23T00:27:15 < qyx> with arbitrary 3*TE width
2020-01-23T00:27:29 < qyx> so not exactly 19" too :>
2020-01-23T00:28:09 < aandrew> heh I have to learn more about eurorack
2020-01-23T00:28:38 < qyx> I just made it smaller
2020-01-23T00:28:48 < qyx> all components can be bough individually
2020-01-23T00:28:51 < qyx> so it is not an issue
2020-01-23T00:29:27 < qyx> the thing is there are some standardized combinations
2020-01-23T00:29:46 < qyx> also cpci/pxi and similar stuff narrows down the combinations
2020-01-23T00:35:25 < aandrew> right
2020-01-23T00:50:28 < qyx> ok I changed my mind with the LEDs
2020-01-23T00:50:34 < qyx> they are evil
2020-01-23T00:59:16 < Cracki> the devil's candle
2020-01-23T01:06:27 < aandrew> devil's candle? heh
2020-01-23T01:08:49 < Cracki> worse than even necromancy, these people animate things that were never alive!
2020-01-23T01:10:31 < Cracki> semiconductors, the hermaphrodites among the elements, belong to Satan
2020-01-23T01:12:49 < Ultrasauce> . o O ( bannedgap )
2020-01-23T01:14:44 < BrainDamage> they only really work when doped
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2020-01-23T05:03:00 < zyp> turns out I'm still good at procrastination
2020-01-23T05:04:57 < zyp> gonna start running more tests at the lab at 9am tomorrow, I promised people I'd make some new tools and stuff for it
2020-01-23T05:06:10 < zyp> I've had like five weeks or something, found out a good time to start was midnight
2020-01-23T05:06:22 < zyp> and now it's 4am
2020-01-23T05:06:24 < catphish> isn't it sleeping time?
2020-01-23T05:06:51 < zyp> well, yeah, like I said I'm supposed to be at the lab at 9am tomorrow
2020-01-23T05:07:11 < catphish> i just upgraded the mariadb servers for several of my SaaS applications, blood pressure now slowly returning to normal :)
2020-01-23T05:07:14 < zyp> and I'm the only one with a keycard
2020-01-23T05:07:29 < zyp> so that's gonna be fun :p
2020-01-23T05:08:07 < catphish> that's ok, you got 5 hours to get reasy :)
2020-01-23T05:08:10 < catphish> *ready
2020-01-23T05:08:47 < zyp> I spent the past four hours hacking up some new GUI tools
2020-01-23T05:09:39 < zyp> turned out nice, so I'm happy enough with that
2020-01-23T05:10:29 < zyp> I should update the firmware build too, but I don't feel like dealing with that now
2020-01-23T05:11:14 < catphish> you have a lab?
2020-01-23T05:11:22 < zyp> that's just a matter of copypasting a blob of generated code and doing some edits to the code that's interfacing with it
2020-01-23T05:11:22 < catphish> sounds more exciting than my office
2020-01-23T05:13:09 < zyp> well, yeah, I've got an office which I haven't worked at since may, because at that time we got a test rig set up at the lab, so I moved my shit over there
2020-01-23T05:13:45 < zyp> and then since I had a kid in august I've mostly worked from home
2020-01-23T05:14:01 < zyp> apart from last round of tests
2020-01-23T05:14:07 < zyp> and next that's starting tomorrow
2020-01-23T05:14:45 < zyp> https://bin.jvnv.net/file/ltuT0.jpg <- here's how my lab workplace looks
2020-01-23T05:16:10 < zyp> and since I'm working at home, I get to work at the weirdest times, like now :)
2020-01-23T05:16:50 < zyp> after all, best time to focus is after kid and wife is asleep
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2020-01-23T05:26:22 < catphish> well that looks pretty cool
2020-01-23T05:27:27 < catphish> i have a regular office, but my desk is cool - https://i.imgur.com/N4GBxQH.jpg
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2020-01-23T06:21:33 < Laurenceb> zyp works at https://www.macgregor.com/ ?
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2020-01-23T08:45:12 < turnip420> hi
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2020-01-23T09:34:23 < zyp> no, I don't
2020-01-23T09:34:42 < zyp> but they built the test rig that our stuff is mounted on
2020-01-23T09:39:19 < Thorn> https://www.macgyver.com/
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2020-01-23T11:12:26 < karlp> what's the rack mount thing on the far right sitting on the bench?
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2020-01-23T11:27:24 < karlp> what's catphish workign on that their desk is so clean?
2020-01-23T11:27:27 < karlp> did they just move in?
2020-01-23T11:28:29 < jly> greetings 
2020-01-23T11:37:57 < karlp> https://nc.beeroclock.net/s/YXBAatR9jiazoJ6 this morning here
2020-01-23T11:39:03 < jly> i like the beer part
2020-01-23T11:39:43 < jly> the youtube thing looks familiart
2020-01-23T11:40:00 < karlp> babybird
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2020-01-23T11:58:53 < Steffanx> karlp: he works in the digital world
2020-01-23T11:59:39 < Steffanx> Lol at all the HV stuff (I guess) on the lrft
2020-01-23T11:59:40 < karlp> can't even see all the rest of the shit on my desk there actually
2020-01-23T11:59:41 < Steffanx> Left
2020-01-23T12:00:02 < karlp> the industry calls it LV, but yes, HV for mortals.
2020-01-23T12:00:40 < karlp> I have tried to keep it all in one place on the side that I don't cross regularly, and to have single kill switch points for it all.
2020-01-23T12:01:22 < karlp> I try and only have exposed mains if I'm actually working on that explicitly, normally it's just a few mains powered things, just looks scary.
2020-01-23T12:02:02 < karlp> now, back to general IT and SW shit that makes up most of the work :)
2020-01-23T12:02:21 < karlp> today, "why are my tooltips truncated after changing some css for unrelated items?"
2020-01-23T12:03:10 < karlp> and "can I _actually_ connect to postgres via tls as the docs imply, or not?"
2020-01-23T12:09:06 < Steffanx> Heh you're a webdev too now?
2020-01-23T12:09:34 < jpa-> karlp is the mythical full stack dev, doing everything from real HV to css
2020-01-23T12:09:39 < karlp> not deliberately, but the admin/config ui on our device is ... surprise surprise a web page
2020-01-23T12:09:49 < karlp> so I get to do that too.
2020-01-23T12:10:05 < karlp> we get a lot of it from openwrt's admin, I just add pages to it as we need mostly,
2020-01-23T12:10:09 < karlp> but still lots of cruft.
2020-01-23T12:10:55 < karlp> and writing all the connectors for sending our data to other places, which is mqtt|json|database cruft with config options on it all.
2020-01-23T12:11:03 < karlp> all just explodes out all the time.
2020-01-23T12:11:30 < karlp> jpa-: yeah, and doing all of it badly.
2020-01-23T12:14:03 < karlp> https://imgur.com/a/MHfvUg5  choppity chop.
2020-01-23T12:14:31 < karlp> and it's awesome, because it's a tooltip, so trying to inspect the element in dev tools and see where it's getting it's values is... tricksy, because as soon as you move your mouse it's gone again..
2020-01-23T12:15:02 < jpa-> i'm now doing mechanical design - and i'm using solvespace, freecad, kicad, librecad and blender for it, all together
2020-01-23T12:18:14 < jpa-> i think i should learn heekscad and brlcad also so i can extend my workflow
2020-01-23T12:19:03 < karlp> heh. I was using freecad and librecad and kicad for some mech stuff, fetl very wizardy, but wayyyy out of my depth.
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2020-01-23T12:19:20 < karlp> and wsa just because freecad and librecad did dxf import/export "differently"
2020-01-23T12:19:47 < karlp> would love to have mech skills just for getting cases worked out nicely.
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2020-01-23T12:46:21 < Thorn> post-IFA press conference if someone hasn't seen it yet https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7HD2YCRIoN4
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2020-01-23T12:54:13 < zyp> karlp, https://www.speedgoat.com/products-services/real-time-target-machines/performance-real-time-target-machine
2020-01-23T12:56:55 < zyp> it used to run the control algos during earlier development, now everything is running on the embedded system so it's just doing data collection and logging at the moment
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2020-01-23T16:38:02 < Laurenceb> EVIL CHICOM NAZI MEGACORPORATIONS LITERALLY SUCKING OUT YOUR SOUUUL
2020-01-23T16:38:02 < Laurenceb> aaaAAAAAAAGGGHHHH
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2020-01-23T17:54:36 < Steffanx> Hows phping mawk?
2020-01-23T17:54:48 < mawk> shut up :(
2020-01-23T17:54:53 < mawk> still doing it
2020-01-23T17:54:59 < mawk> I told them after that I'm done with php
2020-01-23T17:55:14 < mawk> I'm doing unit tests now
2020-01-23T17:56:10 < karlp> yah! you tell em!
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2020-01-23T18:00:38 < mawk> they agreed
2020-01-23T18:10:08 < karlp> PaulFertser: another (at least fixed) https://github.com/openwrt/luci/issues/3380
2020-01-23T18:11:11 < PaulFertser> karlp: heh, because it checks it instead of just passing it :)
2020-01-23T18:13:36 < Steffanx> Hehe mawk
2020-01-23T18:14:01 < karlp> PaulFertser: I imagine that is the common failure mode.
2020-01-23T18:14:14 < karlp> the whole "just pass raw user strings to syscalls" thing doesn't always tend to be real popular...
2020-01-23T18:15:33 < PaulFertser> Thanks for sharing karlp 
2020-01-23T18:36:45 < bitmask> herro
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2020-01-23T19:21:56 < Steffanx> Hello bitmaks 
2020-01-23T19:31:30 < jpa-> hello Steffaxn
2020-01-23T19:32:59 < Steffanx> Hi mr finnish
2020-01-23T19:33:27 < Steffanx> Sup
2020-01-23T19:35:06 < jpa-> relayouting a pcb before having even bothered to fully try out the first revision
2020-01-23T19:35:20 < zyp> fun
2020-01-23T19:35:30 < qyx> same here
2020-01-23T19:36:08 < zyp> best thing is when you never get around to fab a pcb and end up redoing it because you wanna change stuff
2020-01-23T19:37:32 < qyx> I am awaiting 6 different PCBs with half-work stuff
2020-01-23T19:37:51 < qyx> 3 are PCIe
2020-01-23T19:39:04 < jpa-> but i got an extra week of time now that i realized china is still closed
2020-01-23T19:39:09 < zyp> I'm planning to finish up a bunch of my shit so I can fab it all at once on the same panel
2020-01-23T19:39:14 < zyp> since I'm doing 4L
2020-01-23T19:39:37 < qyx> jpa-: jlcpcb works
2020-01-23T19:40:11 < qyx> https://i.imgur.com/IsToE8Y.png
2020-01-23T19:40:47 < englishman> cool
2020-01-23T19:40:58 < englishman> is that your free energy harvester
2020-01-23T19:42:00 < jpa-> qyx: only for 2L IIRC
2020-01-23T19:42:14 < qyx> for the "standard" process
2020-01-23T19:42:26 < qyx> englishman: why that laff
2020-01-23T19:42:32 < qyx> it will earn millions
2020-01-23T19:42:35 < jpa-> yeah, all my boards are very special snowflakes
2020-01-23T19:42:37 < qyx> youll see
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2020-01-23T19:59:55 < qyx> STMicroelectronics joins Zigbee Alliance® Board
2020-01-23T19:59:55 < qyx> uhm
2020-01-23T20:00:14 < zyp> still waiting for stm32wb zigbee stack
2020-01-23T20:00:31 < zyp> I mean, not really waiting for it, but I'll probably give it a shot when it's available
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2020-01-23T20:04:23  * jpa- imagines zyp drinking aquavit shots with stm32wb discovery
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2020-01-23T20:32:30 < Laurenceb> corona virus? mate I only drink san miguel
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2020-01-23T20:37:27 < Cracki> some people claim this virus and its "natural" spreading was planned months ago
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2020-01-23T20:41:06 < Cracki> >20 million quarantined
2020-01-23T20:42:18 < Cracki> love how people flood their local hospitals in search for *something* while exactly those dense crowds help spread disease
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2020-01-23T20:49:40 < aandrew> yep
2020-01-23T20:49:46 < aandrew> Laurenceb: lol
2020-01-23T20:53:07 < PaulFertser> Seriously? They go to hospitals without being ill, just stupid?
2020-01-23T20:54:41 < BrainDamage> there's probably histeria induced symptoms
2020-01-23T20:55:18 < BrainDamage> as in, when you're aware of a pandemic around you, small symptoms that you normally chalk under sensation glitches suddenly become alarms of a contagion
2020-01-23T20:55:22 < PaulFertser> China is impressive. Where else 20 million people can be isolated just like that?
2020-01-23T20:56:26 < Steffanx> PaulFertser: dont you feel isolated once in a while ;)
2020-01-23T20:56:49 < PaulFertser> But hospitals can't do anything sensible with viruses anyway, so if you're not in situation where the symptoms are obviously life-threatening why would you go there?
2020-01-23T20:57:13 < BrainDamage> because people don't know much about biology, on average
2020-01-23T20:57:27 < BrainDamage> see how many take antibiotics when they have a virus infection for example
2020-01-23T20:57:38 < jpa-> PaulFertser: how so? hospitals can support basic vital functions until immune system kills the virus, and there are many antiviral drugs also that may or may not be effective
2020-01-23T20:57:57 < PaulFertser> Steffanx: Trent - Daria, do you ever feel like maybe you're wasting your life? Daria - Only when I'm awake. 
2020-01-23T20:58:01 < BrainDamage> but there are effective both palliative care and antiviral
2020-01-23T20:58:59 < jpa-> not only palliative
2020-01-23T20:59:13 < PaulFertser> jpa-: yes, that's my point. If the symptoms are life-threatening, you go to hospital to fight the symptoms. 
2020-01-23T20:59:28 < jpa-> PaulFertser: ah, true
2020-01-23T20:59:32 < jpa-> didn't read well enough
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2020-01-23T21:00:04 < qyx> I hope my china PCBs will be coronavirus-free
2020-01-23T21:00:26 < PaulFertser> BrainDamage: for specific viruses, indeed, I'm still shocked how cheap and effective https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aciclovir is.
2020-01-23T21:00:38 < Steffanx> Ty PaulFertser .  Not sure I know Trent & Daria
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2020-01-23T21:00:46 < qyx> I will treat them with chlorine dioxide on arrival
2020-01-23T21:00:57 < Steffanx> If i*
2020-01-23T21:01:43 < PaulFertser> Steffanx: sitcom animated series from the 90s about smart teenagers.
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2020-01-23T21:08:56 < Cracki> bake pcb once, 260C might sterilize well enough
2020-01-23T21:14:31 < BrainDamage> just use sterile gloves until reflowing
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2020-01-23T21:17:59 < Cracki> yeh, it's not airborne yet
2020-01-23T21:18:16 < Cracki> if it becomes airborne, sticking it in a ventilated box wouldn't be the best idea :>
2020-01-23T21:18:50 < Cracki> I wonder when china will first use a nuke to sterilize a whole city
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2020-01-23T21:48:13 < qyx> what should I tell google if I want to search for a mux controlled by i2c
2020-01-23T21:48:17 < qyx> and not a i2c mux
2020-01-23T21:48:30 < qyx> because basically, it is a i2c analog mux, but it is not
2020-01-23T21:49:40 < qyx> MAX14661 is one of them
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2020-01-23T21:55:26 < karlp> PaulFertser: nice daria reference, haven't seen one of them in years :)
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2020-01-23T21:57:39 < PaulFertser> karlp: yw :)
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2020-01-23T22:13:46 < Cracki> *sip* https://pbs.twimg.com/media/EO_OrXhXUAAJLBk.png
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2020-01-23T22:22:11 < karlp> I don't get it
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2020-01-23T22:25:21 < upgrayedd> qyx: are you looking for a gpio mux or something analog?
2020-01-23T22:26:05 < upgrayedd> PCA9555 or something like that is a i2c gpio expander
2020-01-23T22:27:20 < aandrew> sounds right
2020-01-23T22:50:01 < upgrayedd> god how rube goldberg is this https://i.imgur.com/l6hkxve.png
2020-01-23T22:51:37 < upgrayedd> i decided to let the cp2108's just do serial instead of fucking with kernel patches for gpios and just put all the power and fan control stuff on stm32f102
2020-01-23T22:51:44 < upgrayedd> testing it on f4disc tho
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2020-01-23T22:56:04 < karlp> what am I looking at beside weird compression artifacts?
2020-01-23T22:56:33 < Steffanx> code.
2020-01-23T22:56:48 < Steffanx> oh its doomba. already wondered who this "new"  guy was
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2020-01-23T23:00:26 < upgrayedd> karlp: 3 cp2108's and stm32f102 on a gl850 hub will be the backplane for 12 rock64 SBCs
2020-01-23T23:00:45 < upgrayedd> it will take power from ATX
2020-01-23T23:05:10 < englishman> oh I thought it was upgrdmn
2020-01-23T23:06:19 < Steffanx> Same, then i saw lunix and his username.
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2020-01-23T23:29:49 < qyx> upgrayedd: nope, analol
2020-01-23T23:33:28 < Steffanx> so how its an analog mux but it's not?
2020-01-23T23:34:36 < upgrayedd> qyx: how many chans?
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2020-01-23T23:35:02 < Steffanx> Heh, i worked too much with i2s the last few days. I can no longer type i2c properly. I write i2s all the time.
2020-01-23T23:35:13 < Steffanx> first i wrote i2c instead of i2s -_-
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2020-01-23T23:35:32 < qyx> I want to switch analog by i2c
2020-01-23T23:35:43 < qyx> and not analog-switch i2c
2020-01-23T23:35:48 < Steffanx> So exactly like your maxim part does?
2020-01-23T23:35:57 < qyx> yes
2020-01-23T23:36:33 < qyx> contrary to 95% other parts you get when searching
2020-01-23T23:39:02 < BrainDamage> weird, one would imagine that your use case is more common
2020-01-23T23:46:38 < Cracki> "i2c interface" might clarify things
2020-01-23T23:46:48 < Cracki> and "analog switch"
2020-01-23T23:46:59 < Cracki> and hope it's looked for in those orders
2020-01-23T23:47:33 < Cracki> 8x8 analog switch https://ez.analog.com/cfs-file/__key/telligent-evolution-components-attachments/00-320-00-00-00-07-71-51/ADG2188.pdf
2020-01-23T23:47:48 < Cracki> AD have some more in that family
2020-01-23T23:49:51 < Cracki> multiplexer prolly also good kw
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2020-01-23T23:59:13 < Laurenceb> https://4.bp.blogspot.com/-zS13Tu_-DYE/UVA54Jdcr9I/AAAAAAAABRY/onCLWSurQDQ/s640/thinkvanwww-scarfolk-blogspot-com.jpg
--- Day changed Fri Jan 24 2020
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2020-01-24T03:08:14 < Laurenceb> https://grrrgraphics.com/wp-content/uploads/2020/01/Trump_2020D_chess-2-1024x714.jpg
2020-01-24T03:13:50 < englishman> Laurenceb: dat keysight soyface https://i.imgur.com/h4X0woy.png
2020-01-24T03:14:13 < englishman> tek >>> keysight
2020-01-24T03:14:14 < Laurenceb> lool
2020-01-24T03:14:23 < Laurenceb> also wtf trump is a genius now
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2020-01-24T03:23:59 < Cracki> did he move the white house to jerusalem?
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2020-01-24T03:26:40 < Cracki> related https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7J3c1JwaFSI
2020-01-24T03:30:41 < englishman> The goal was to sell 25,000 EQC cars last year but Daimler only managed to build around 7,000. In Daimler and Mercedes-Benz’s home country of Germany, vehicle registrations suggest that the car only sold 55 total units as of January 3, 2020.
2020-01-24T03:31:00 < englishman> production targets reduced by 50% from 60,000 to 30,000 after parent company Daimler revealed that there is a shortage in LG Chem battery cells.
2020-01-24T03:31:22 < englishman> mercedes had partnered with Grohmann Engineering to produce batteries
2020-01-24T03:31:28 < englishman> then tesla bought Grohmann
2020-01-24T03:57:45 < specing> ha
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2020-01-24T04:42:04 < Laurenceb> I LOVE YOU CORONA-CHAN
2020-01-24T04:50:40 < Laurenceb> farming simulator 20 is coming!!
2020-01-24T04:55:07 < Laurenceb> https://www.farming-simulator.com/
2020-01-24T04:57:37 < Laurenceb> coming soon: going outside and not being a virgin simulator
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2020-01-24T05:41:56 < Laurenceb> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Virgin_boy_egg
2020-01-24T05:58:41 < Laurenceb> https://www.reddit.com/r/CrappyDesign/comments/7n7scn/you_can_only_see_it_once/
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2020-01-24T06:32:52 < Cracki> >intangible
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2020-01-24T09:34:46 < thardin> no touchy
2020-01-24T09:34:58  * con3 touchies
2020-01-24T09:35:11 < thardin> 3:
2020-01-24T09:35:47 < thardin> I wonder what persuades someone to boil stuff in piss, much less things you intend to eat
2020-01-24T09:36:16 < con3> ok hold up
2020-01-24T09:36:20 < con3> i joined late
2020-01-24T09:36:23 < con3> what did i just touch
2020-01-24T09:36:33 < thardin> 04:41 < Laurenceb> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Virgin_boy_egg
2020-01-24T09:36:48 < con3> FFS
2020-01-24T09:37:13 < con3>  springtime tradition of the city where the urine is collected from prepubescent peasant boys. The eggs have been listed by officials in China as a part of the region's "local intangible cultural heritage"
2020-01-24T09:37:17 < con3> what in the absolute fuck
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2020-01-24T09:38:00 < thardin> good thing they replace the used urine with fresh urine partway through the process
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2020-01-24T09:38:50  * con3 deletes wikipedia and Dongyang
2020-01-24T09:39:21 < thardin> finally a use for incels
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2020-01-24T09:41:53 < oz4ga> I just love the smell of ##STM32 in the morning. Eggs boiled in piss. Thats a new low
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2020-01-24T10:09:12 < Steffanx> You did learn something new today oz4ga  
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2020-01-24T10:26:05 < oz4ga> Steffanx: Oh yeah ... some how I wish I didn't 
2020-01-24T10:27:24 < Steffanx> It on wikipedia. You should know everything on therr
2020-01-24T10:27:26 < Steffanx> E
2020-01-24T10:29:08 < Steffanx> It's*. Damn it. Learn to press the proper keys.
2020-01-24T10:54:25 < oz4ga> jonny mnemonic might. I have to sort
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2020-01-24T12:05:04 < karlp> doomba: how did you arrive at f102? 
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2020-01-24T12:11:25 < Steffanx> Welcome bob
2020-01-24T12:11:51 < kakibob> it's my name
2020-01-24T12:12:00 < kakibob> bob
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2020-01-24T12:13:33 < kakibob> sun is shining steff
2020-01-24T12:13:51 < kakibob> dope
2020-01-24T12:28:15 < Steffanx> Sexy times.
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2020-01-24T14:13:22 < doomba> karlp: lower cost than f4, has usb stuff coded in libopencm3 for it
2020-01-24T14:14:00 < doomba> afaik only f1 and f4 have usb in libopencm3, even though tons of other parts that have usb
2020-01-24T14:26:41 < karlp> f0, f1, f3, f4, l0, l1 all have usb in locm3.  f7 should, but there's some inconsistencies that are being a bit tricksy to sort out / not being looked at (f7 _should_ be identical to f4, but my f7 board doesn't enumerate, others report it does with the same enabling)
2020-01-24T14:26:58 < karlp> so that I can work out what docs are lacking, where did you get the information from that only f1 and f4 have usb in locm3?
2020-01-24T14:28:15 < karlp> l4 has it turned on, but doesn't have a gadget0 test yet.
2020-01-24T14:30:52 < karlp> $ ack usb.o --type=make lib/stm32/ | cut -f3 -d/ | sort | paste -s -d ' '  ==> f0 f1 f2 f3 f4 l0 l1 l4
2020-01-24T14:30:59 < karlp> (pointless shell pipeline of the day
2020-01-24T14:34:55 < srk> cute
2020-01-24T14:44:40 < doomba> karlp: libopencm3-examples - which i know is not an accurate representation of actual support.
2020-01-24T14:45:03 < doomba> f102 or f103 seemed like a good choice since they are more "common" i guess?
2020-01-24T14:46:44 < doomba> if they all have usb.o does that mean other stuff like the cdc acm works with them too? e.g. i can more or less make cdc acm work in f0 without going into the rabbit hole?
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2020-01-24T15:30:49 < karlp> libopencm3-examples is a pit of copypasta, so no, judging support based on what board happened to be there is a horrible way of looking for it.
2020-01-24T15:40:54 < jadew> spent half a day scratching my head, testing with different components, trying to figure out where the design flaw was
2020-01-24T15:41:40 < jadew> realized that my position at the desk or around the room has an effect on things, so I started running experiments while standing still in different spots, peaking at the scope from outside the lab, behind one wall, behind another one, changing distance from the DUT, etc
2020-01-24T15:41:59 < jadew> then I realized there's an angle and if I stay in that line, everything works
2020-01-24T15:42:28 < jadew> it was the freaking wifi router
2020-01-24T15:42:35 < karlp> what are you testing?
2020-01-24T15:42:37 -!- kakibob [b05d598d@176-93-89-141.bb.dnainternet.fi] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
2020-01-24T15:42:57 < jadew> karlp, a .1 to 12 GHz prescaler
2020-01-24T15:44:09 < jadew> long story short, disabled wifi and everything works
2020-01-24T15:48:24 < jadew> something must have happened tho... when I tested the last prototype a couple of weeks ago, none of these issues were present
2020-01-24T15:48:52 < jadew> anyway, glad it's solved, I was pulling my hair out
2020-01-24T15:56:08 < englishman> nice emc testing
2020-01-24T16:00:41 < jadew> yeah, it's not an EMC issue tho, the signal was being picked up by a cable connected on the input
2020-01-24T16:01:24 < jadew> except I thought it's random (much lower amplitude) radio noise, which it was meant to reject
2020-01-24T16:01:57 < jadew> food time, ttyl
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2020-01-24T18:05:12 < bitmask> why are enclosures so expensive
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2020-01-24T18:09:25 < jadew> what type of enclosures?
2020-01-24T18:09:55 < jadew> for one, materials are expensive I think
2020-01-24T18:10:03 < jadew> if you're considering metal enclosures
2020-01-24T18:10:11 < jadew> then there's forming them
2020-01-24T18:10:38 < bitmask> yea I know
2020-01-24T18:10:43 < bitmask> just sucks
2020-01-24T18:10:49 -!- c10ud_ [~c10ud@emesene/dictator/c10ud] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer]
2020-01-24T18:10:52 < jadew> I know
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2020-01-24T18:11:18 < bitmask> 25-35 bucks for the spot welder enclosure
2020-01-24T18:11:30 < bitmask> was trying to save money by building it heh
2020-01-24T18:11:58 < jadew> what do you need it for?
2020-01-24T18:12:00 < jadew> batteries?
2020-01-24T18:12:19 < bitmask> yea
2020-01-24T18:13:30 -!- drzacek [~drzacek@b941c009.business.dg-w.de] has quit [Quit: Leaving]
2020-01-24T18:13:55 < jadew> I wanted to make one several years ago, but gave up on it
2020-01-24T18:14:41 < jadew> I recovered the transformer from an old microwave oven, but it ended up collecting dust in a cardboard box on the balcony
2020-01-24T18:15:29 < bitmask> I ordered everything I need except for the enclosure
2020-01-24T18:15:42 < jadew> you can make that from wood
2020-01-24T18:15:52 < bitmask> yea I guess
2020-01-24T18:16:13 < jadew> but I think it's cheaper (time wise) to just buy one
2020-01-24T18:16:49 < bitmask> yea I agree
2020-01-24T18:17:37 < bitmask> https://www.amazon.com/uxcell-213mm-Electronic-Junction-Enclosure/dp/B07FLK2Q9Q/
2020-01-24T18:18:08 < bitmask> its a bit tall but other than that Its not bad, I like that it comes with feet and a handle
2020-01-24T18:18:30 < jadew> yeah, looks nice
2020-01-24T18:18:53 < bitmask> https://www.aliexpress.com/item/32908928286.html
2020-01-24T18:18:56 < jadew> the front panel is not plastic is it?
2020-01-24T18:19:00 < bitmask> I really like that one but thats $50 after shipping
2020-01-24T18:19:11 < bitmask> not sure, I thought it might be
2020-01-24T18:19:13 < jadew> I know some of the ones in that form factor are using plastic front panels
2020-01-24T18:19:22 < bitmask> doesnt really matter if it is
2020-01-24T18:19:29 < jadew> ah, ok
2020-01-24T18:19:44 < bitmask> I mean, I was considering printing one
2020-01-24T18:19:53 < jadew> got it
2020-01-24T18:20:12 < bitmask> still might, not sure yet
2020-01-24T18:20:48 < jadew> on the one from ali the panels are plastic
2020-01-24T18:21:19 < bitmask> you mean the front and back?
2020-01-24T18:21:27 < jadew> yeah
2020-01-24T18:21:44 < bitmask> easier to cut out holes for stuff anyway
2020-01-24T18:22:15 < jadew> yeah, but just so you know
2020-01-24T18:22:30 < bitmask> I'm not gonna spend $50 though
2020-01-24T18:22:47 < bitmask> even if it is very nice
2020-01-24T18:23:01 < bitmask> I like the red/black look
2020-01-24T18:27:48 -!- c10ud [~c10ud@emesene/dictator/c10ud] has quit [Quit: Leaving]
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2020-01-24T19:01:37 < jadew> lmfao, I'm reading about yahoo! because they seem like such a huge failure
2020-01-24T19:01:57 < jadew> everyone saw it failing as it was failing and they knew exactly why
2020-01-24T19:02:02 < jadew> everyone but the CEO
2020-01-24T19:02:24 < jadew> so check this out, they bought geocities in 99, for $3.6 billion
2020-01-24T19:02:39 < jadew> and refused to buy google two years later for 2 to 3 billion
2020-01-24T19:03:12 < jadew> they also bought broadcast.com (nothing), for $5.7 billion
2020-01-24T19:03:25 < specing> lol
2020-01-24T19:04:21 -!- bitmask [~bitmask@c-73-215-237-27.hsd1.nj.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: Gone to sleep...]
2020-01-24T19:04:31 < englishman> très comas baby
2020-01-24T19:05:20 < jadew> a couple of years later, they panicked because google was winning the search engine market and they bought another search engine nobody ever heard about: "overture" for 1.6 billion
2020-01-24T19:05:23 < jadew> ffs...
2020-01-24T19:05:31 < jadew> this is the same CEO
2020-01-24T19:06:25 -!- sk_tandt [~sk_tandt@net-5-88-141-17.cust.vodafonedsl.it] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer]
2020-01-24T19:07:18 < jadew> they bought Tumblr in 2019, for 1.1 billion
2020-01-24T19:07:32 < jadew> and sold it in 2019, for $10 million lol
2020-01-24T19:07:57 < specing> Lol
2020-01-24T19:08:04 < englishman> well they banned porn
2020-01-24T19:08:08 < specing> Didn't they kill tumblr by shutting down the porn?
2020-01-24T19:08:12 < englishman> and it was 99% porn
2020-01-24T19:08:16 < jadew> englishman, that's what came to my mind too
2020-01-24T19:08:17 < englishman> so it lost 99% value
2020-01-24T19:08:22 < jadew> they must have banned porn
2020-01-24T19:09:20 < jadew> for me, yahoo became irrelevant when they decided to kill yahoo messenger
2020-01-24T19:09:42 < jadew> they stopped maintaining it years before that
2020-01-24T19:09:49 < jadew> such a silly company...
2020-01-24T19:09:51 < Steffanx> what is yahoo messenger
2020-01-24T19:09:55 < jadew> they were the first in so many areas
2020-01-24T19:09:59 < Steffanx> what is yahoo
2020-01-24T19:10:17 < jadew> that's a valid question today
2020-01-24T19:10:55 < Steffanx> Yeah. for sure
2020-01-24T19:10:55 < englishman> it was a shittier Altavista
2020-01-24T19:11:30 < jadew> check this out, in 98 they were offered google's algorithm for 1 million and they passed lol
2020-01-24T19:14:03 < jadew> they were also offered facebook, for 1 billion and they passed
2020-01-24T19:14:07 < jadew> in 2006
2020-01-24T19:14:46 < jadew> tbh, considering their past, it's possible that if they bought either of these, they would have killed them
2020-01-24T19:14:47 < karlp> they stopped ebing relevant when their stopped maintaining their directory...
2020-01-24T19:15:11 < karlp> the fact they managed to maintain such a cash pile for so long afterwrds has always been a thing of wonder
2020-01-24T19:15:12 < jadew> karlp, they probably panicked and decided to go the search route
2020-01-24T19:15:38 < jadew> indeed
2020-01-24T19:16:14 < englishman> all of their money comes from their stake in Alibaba iirc
2020-01-24T19:18:28 < Steffanx> you made me look up Lycos. i must have forgotten they were also in the search business
2020-01-24T19:18:36 < Steffanx> i only remember them for their free web hosting
2020-01-24T19:20:08 < aandrew> haha I remember lycos
2020-01-24T19:22:57 < karlp> and excite, and askjeeves and and and and every man and a perl script...
2020-01-24T19:25:04 < Steffanx> Nope, nope :P
2020-01-24T19:25:23 < Steffanx> We had our own dutch search engine, it was awful
2020-01-24T19:28:45 < aandrew> did it only return stroopwafels?
2020-01-24T19:29:34 < Steffanx> it was mainly .nl websites yes
2020-01-24T19:34:47 -!- kakipro [b05d598d@176-93-89-141.bb.dnainternet.fi] has joined ##stm32
2020-01-24T19:38:30 < karlp> most countries had their own for a while.
2020-01-24T19:38:44 < PaulFertser> yandex is still strong
2020-01-24T19:38:46 < karlp> leit.is still exists.
2020-01-24T19:39:08 < karlp> but no-one's using it as far as I know.
2020-01-24T19:39:20 < karlp> also, yay, solved a css problem _and_ a javascript problem today. whee
2020-01-24T19:42:23 -!- emeb [~ericb@ip68-2-65-72.ph.ph.cox.net] has joined ##stm32
2020-01-24T19:44:30 < BrainDamage> altavista was the shit
2020-01-24T19:45:24 < Laurenceb> welcome to my cab girl do you like smoke? where ur parents house? k show vagine to samir now or we kill your father
2020-01-24T19:45:54  * Laurenceb is out of work so maybe he should practice as a taxi driver
2020-01-24T19:52:18 < emeb> uh-oh. unemployed Laurenceb is bad news for the human race.
2020-01-24T19:52:25 < Steffanx> Affirmative
2020-01-24T19:52:29 < emeb> idle hands, etc.
2020-01-24T19:57:08 < jpa-> Laurenceb's hands are not idle...
2020-01-24T19:57:24 < Laurenceb> keeek
2020-01-24T19:58:20 < Laurenceb> https://knowyourmeme.com/memes/coomer
2020-01-24T20:01:55 -!- sterna [~Adium@h-90-120.A137.corp.bahnhof.se] has quit [Quit: Leaving.]
2020-01-24T20:15:21 < thardin> coom
2020-01-24T20:25:06 -!- sterna [~Adium@c-fcb8d954.016-35-62726f1.bbcust.telenor.se] has joined ##stm32
2020-01-24T20:28:29 -!- sterna [~Adium@c-fcb8d954.016-35-62726f1.bbcust.telenor.se] has quit [Client Quit]
2020-01-24T20:29:00 < PaulFertser> Is /b/ contagious? thardin, beware, Laurenceb already lost his job because of that, it would be a shame to see you fired the next.
2020-01-24T20:32:14 < Laurenceb> keeek
2020-01-24T20:32:42 < englishman> 4chan is worse than the coronavirus
2020-01-24T20:32:49 < Laurenceb> >4chan
2020-01-24T20:32:55 < Laurenceb> half chan
2020-01-24T20:39:03 < Steffanx> PaulFertser i think when you get a higher degree (MSc or PhD) in physics you turn insane.
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2020-01-24T20:40:19 < kakipro> friend was first in university to study economics
2020-01-24T20:40:32 < kakipro> too ez
2020-01-24T20:40:39 < kakipro> go to mechanical engineering
2020-01-24T20:40:41 < Steffanx> oh, thardin is CS, not physics. so it does not entirely explains it.
2020-01-24T20:40:44 < kakipro> too ez
2020-01-24T20:40:48 < Laurenceb> El diable de Londres
2020-01-24T20:40:49 < Steffanx> -s
2020-01-24T20:41:12 < kakipro> then he went to physics and has not said it's too ez
2020-01-24T20:41:31 < Steffanx> He shouldnt have done multiple at the same time.
2020-01-24T20:41:36 < Steffanx> *should
2020-01-24T20:41:36 < kakipro> yes
2020-01-24T20:41:41 < kakipro> multiple studies
2020-01-24T20:43:19 < Steffanx> Is kakipro alright? Do you know?
2020-01-24T20:47:58 < Laurenceb> >multiple studies
2020-01-24T20:48:03 < Laurenceb> keek inb4 thats a degree
2020-01-24T20:48:47 < kakipro> should I go to uni
2020-01-24T20:48:51 < kakipro> I was in uni
2020-01-24T20:49:08 < Steffanx> Laurenceb will you be at our next ##stm32 meeting? 
2020-01-24T20:50:39 < Laurenceb> where abouts?
2020-01-24T20:50:48 < Laurenceb> I need to renew my passport
2020-01-24T20:50:57 < Steffanx> prison?
2020-01-24T20:51:03 < Laurenceb> keeek probably
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2020-01-24T21:33:10 < Steffanx> what movie kakipro?
2020-01-24T21:39:23 -!- nashpa [~nashpa@dliviu.plus.com] has joined ##stm32
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2020-01-24T21:40:54 < bitmask> whoo, 5 months of unlimited car washes
2020-01-24T21:41:01 < Steffanx> uh what?
2020-01-24T21:41:06 < Steffanx> bitmaks?
2020-01-24T21:41:47 < bitmask> my gf got me a car detailing for my bday, I dont care that much about the car to get it really clean so I asked if she minded if I traded it in for one of their unlimited monthly car wash plans, it ended up being worth 5 months
2020-01-24T21:41:58 < Steffanx> heh
2020-01-24T21:42:42 < Steffanx> it seems bitmask is getting better. or did you just stopped complaining in public? :P
2020-01-24T21:43:05 < bitmask> about the gf or in general
2020-01-24T21:43:39 < bitmask> well ive only slipped and drank like twice in the last year or two so that helps
2020-01-24T21:43:39 < Steffanx> haha
2020-01-24T21:44:03 < bitmask> im doing alright, up and down as always
2020-01-24T21:46:11 < Steffanx> :)
2020-01-24T21:46:18 < bitmask> how is mr steffan doing
2020-01-24T21:46:54 < Steffanx> mr Steffanx is doing fine.
2020-01-24T21:47:05 < bitmask> thats good, make anything cool on your cnc yet?
2020-01-24T21:47:33 < Steffanx> nah, nothing really cool
2020-01-24T21:47:33 < bitmask> make me one with it
2020-01-24T21:47:44 < bitmask> and a case for my spot welder
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2020-01-24T22:34:37 < kakinull> Steffanx: the thing (80s movie)
2020-01-24T22:34:48 < kakinull> not that new bs
2020-01-24T22:37:01 < kakinull> just dive into it
2020-01-24T22:37:07 < kakinull> you will enjoy
2020-01-24T22:37:56 < PaulFertser> New BS 80s movie: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kung_Fury
2020-01-24T22:39:01 < kakinull> that was... interesting
2020-01-24T22:39:18 < kakinull> it's not full lenght film though
2020-01-24T22:40:08 < Steffanx> Sorry kakinull. It's a no go. 80s movie are cringy. And i dont really enjoy watching movies with Kurt Russell 
2020-01-24T22:40:26 < kakinull> I said enjoy sarcastically
2020-01-24T22:40:44 < kakinull> but it is a classic
2020-01-24T22:41:17 < kakinull> but never saw it again
2020-01-24T22:42:02 < Steffanx> hm, i didnt know a kaki does sarcasm :P
2020-01-24T22:44:10 < kakinull> american pie
2020-01-24T22:50:56 < kakinull> kung fury might be new but it has that 80s cringe too
2020-01-24T23:01:14 -!- bvernoux [~Ben@88.120.152.126] has quit [Quit: Leaving]
2020-01-24T23:13:43 < kakinull> Steffanx: seven
2020-01-24T23:14:59 < Steffanx> aka Se7en 
2020-01-24T23:15:00 < Steffanx> ?
2020-01-24T23:15:48 -!- Drzacek [~Drzacek@2001:16b8:1c29:7300:7d1e:acd2:a0b6:ff2d] has quit [Quit: Leaving]
--- Day changed Sat Jan 25 2020
2020-01-25T00:01:19 < kakinull> maybe
2020-01-25T00:14:30 < doomba> haha getting this stm32g0 to talk is ridiculous
2020-01-25T00:14:45 < doomba> st-probe doesn't find it... probably too old
2020-01-25T00:14:53 < doomba> openocd won't build
2020-01-25T00:15:20 < karlp> I can help with one of them.
2020-01-25T00:15:24 < karlp> I hav eno idea what the other even is
2020-01-25T00:16:27 < doomba> st-info or w/e
2020-01-25T00:16:33 < doomba> from the official stlink tool
2020-01-25T00:16:53 < doomba> is reporting a chipid 0x0000
2020-01-25T00:18:07 < karlp> what official stlink tool are  you talking about?
2020-01-25T00:18:11 < karlp> on windows or linux?
2020-01-25T00:22:05 < doomba> linux
2020-01-25T00:22:17 < doomba> triple checking my connections
2020-01-25T00:22:18 < karlp> get a newer one from st then?
2020-01-25T00:22:25 < doomba> i'm using a soic8 test clip
2020-01-25T00:22:37 < karlp> if oocd won't build, you can ask all about it and paste your error in #openocd
2020-01-25T00:22:58 < doomba> then i have vdd tapped into one of the nucleo/stlink jumper pins instead of vdd_target
2020-01-25T00:23:09 < doomba> to actually get 3.3v
2020-01-25T00:34:37 < aandrew> urf, 30 pages of eevblog to go thorugh
2020-01-25T00:34:43 < aandrew> fuck I wish this shit was mailing lists
2020-01-25T00:35:43 < karlp> is this every forum post since you last visited or something?
2020-01-25T00:35:48 < aandrew> yeah
2020-01-25T00:35:52 < karlp> is it useful? I've never really looked,
2020-01-25T00:35:53 < aandrew> been a little under a month
2020-01-25T00:36:01 < aandrew> there is interesting stuff there from time to time
2020-01-25T00:36:02 < aandrew> lots of fluff
2020-01-25T00:36:09 < aandrew> I obviously don't read every thread
2020-01-25T00:37:58 < BrainDamage> maybe a rss would make things simpler?
2020-01-25T00:38:04 < aandrew> no not really
2020-01-25T00:38:10 < BrainDamage> this way you can keep up small bits at once
2020-01-25T00:38:20 < aandrew> none of them have good RSS feeds, they all cap them at like 20 entries or some ridiculously low number
2020-01-25T00:38:25 < aandrew> and you can't seem to request more
2020-01-25T00:38:29 < aandrew> so you gotta constantly refresh
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2020-01-25T00:51:06 < doomba> haha yea it's a mystery
2020-01-25T00:51:33 < doomba> to make sure my board isn't bad, i have the clip right on an extra part
2020-01-25T00:51:45 < doomba> confirmed continuity. all pins connected.
2020-01-25T00:52:24 < doomba> stm32g030 so8 pins: 2-vdd 3-vss 8-swclk 7-swdio 4-nrst
2020-01-25T00:52:51 < doomba> these are wired up to an st-link on a discovery board. jumpers removed ofc
2020-01-25T00:54:21 < doomba> on the stlink, vdd_target is a sense line only, so i have 3.3v coming from elsewhere
2020-01-25T00:54:34 < doomba> i also tried connecting that vdd_target up to the 3.3v too.
2020-01-25T00:55:13 -!- kakinull [b05d598d@176-93-89-141.bb.dnainternet.fi] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
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2020-01-25T01:09:06 < doomba> RM says sw-d pins available after sysreset
2020-01-25T01:09:26 -!- fenugrec [~fenugrec@97.107.220.18] has quit [Ping timeout: 268 seconds]
2020-01-25T01:09:40 < doomba> and it looks like the boot0 pin is shared with swclk
2020-01-25T01:09:56 < doomba> i wonder if these things are in uart bootloader mode from the factory
2020-01-25T01:13:17 -!- Tordek [tordek@gateway/shell/blinkenshell.org/x-flaaoargxzrtpwbl] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds]
2020-01-25T01:14:10 < doomba> i sent an email to a guy who made a pet crab with one of these things
2020-01-25T01:14:48 < doomba> compared schematics and it's looking like my board is ok. though soic-8 clipping a bare chip doesn't even work either.
2020-01-25T01:21:02 < qyx> do you have pulldown on the swclk?
2020-01-25T01:25:46 < doomba> no
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2020-01-25T01:29:51 < qyx> why
2020-01-25T01:30:19 < doomba> afaik it's already on discovery
2020-01-25T01:30:59 < qyx> afaik? your boot0 is floating?
2020-01-25T01:31:14 < doomba> boot0 is swclk
2020-01-25T01:31:26 < qyx> thats the reason I am asking
2020-01-25T01:35:48 < qyx> also your afaik is wrong, because if you haven't modified your nucleo, your VDD from the SWD connector is not even connected
2020-01-25T01:36:08 < qyx> so you didn't even check the stlink schematic
2020-01-25T01:36:31 < qyx> gnd, swdio, swclk is all you need to connect
2020-01-25T01:36:40 < qyx> with the two jumpers open
2020-01-25T01:37:52 < doomba> i'm not using VDD on the SWD connector
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2020-01-25T01:38:07 < doomba> i'm using one of those jumper pins because it has 3.3v on it
2020-01-25T01:38:41 < qyx> I got that par, you said you tried feeding vdd_target
2020-01-25T01:39:15 < qyx> so hows the pulldown
2020-01-25T01:39:27 < doomba> reading RM / AN
2020-01-25T01:39:28 < qyx> I can't see any on the nucleo
2020-01-25T01:43:33 < qyx> hm there is something on the stcommunity
2020-01-25T01:44:00 < qyx> looksc like the boot0 pin is ignored or what
2020-01-25T01:45:19 < qyx> also it shouln't matter actually
2020-01-25T01:46:09 < doomba> i just tried a 100k pulldown
2020-01-25T01:46:23 < doomba> cycled power with pulldown in there
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2020-01-25T01:49:41 < doomba> still nothing. reading more
2020-01-25T01:50:08 -!- boB_K7IQ [~boB_K7IQ@152.44.129.202] has quit [Ping timeout: 268 seconds]
2020-01-25T01:51:10 < Cracki> while we're necromancing, anyone ever touched an allegro A4955 and has an idea why it would be stuck in failure state? logic inputs are right, supply is ok, charge pump for high side n-mosfets looks good, ...
2020-01-25T01:55:29 < qyx> doomba: are you trying swd or the bootloader?
2020-01-25T02:06:35 < doomba> swd
2020-01-25T02:07:03 < doomba> 100k maybe too much
2020-01-25T02:07:12 < doomba> or maybe
2020-01-25T02:07:45 < doomba> i need to hook up swclk/swdio after power on with boot0 pulled down
2020-01-25T02:17:39 < doomba> i tried uart bootloader too
2020-01-25T02:43:21 -!- c10ud [~c10ud@emesene/dictator/c10ud] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds]
2020-01-25T02:55:54 < doomba> 5. Upon reset, these pins are configured as SW debug alternate functions, and the internal pull-up on PA13 pin and the internal pull-down on PA14 are activated.
2020-01-25T02:56:23 < doomba> ^ on reset, it's pulling up SWDIO and pulling down SWCLK internally.
2020-01-25T02:56:45 < doomba> that would explain the lack of pull-down on the boot0 pin in that one dude's schematic i saw that uses a g0
2020-01-25T02:56:56 < doomba> he's just connecting right up
2020-01-25T03:13:33 < doomba> i compared the f4disco schematic to the g0-so8-disco schematic because i thought a 100K R on J_TMS was interesting. they both have it.
2020-01-25T03:14:01 < doomba> and the g0-so8-disco is interesting because it's esentially a pcb'd version of exactly what i'm doing.
2020-01-25T03:14:48 < doomba> but instead of a break-off pcb that literally just has the so8 and decoupling caps, i'm soic-8 clipping to a pcb with decoupling caps.
2020-01-25T03:15:37 < doomba> nothing else in circuit should be interfering... but to be sure of that, i clipped another one that isn't on a pcb
2020-01-25T03:16:16 < doomba> and then breadboarded so i could manually bang reset and boot0 to see if it uart bootloader would respond.
2020-01-25T03:19:20 < doomba> even tried flipping the fucker around backwards to see if the datasheet was incorrect
2020-01-25T03:21:03 < doomba> tried to st-links. maybe one was bad? now i'm getting oscilliscope
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2020-01-25T03:45:06 < doomba> while :; do st-info --probe; done # <-- while glitching it and switching pins around
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2020-01-25T04:38:01 < Cracki> its ded jim
2020-01-25T04:46:16 -!- machinehum [~machinehu@S01061cabc0ab4603.vc.shawcable.net] has joined ##stm32
2020-01-25T04:55:29 < machinehum> You weiners wanna help me with my game? https://github.com/Machine-Hum/realm.one
2020-01-25T04:55:47 < machinehum> It in Rust, it's like C... but future
2020-01-25T05:07:30 < specing> machinehum: yuck
2020-01-25T05:07:36 < specing> get onto milspec level with Ada
2020-01-25T05:07:46 < specing> none of that C,C++,Rust,Golang garbage
2020-01-25T05:08:07 < machinehum> https://www.ada.gov/
2020-01-25T05:08:10 < machinehum> ty
2020-01-25T05:08:52 < specing> https://www.adacore.com/download/more arm toolchain
2020-01-25T05:13:32 < machinehum> I know :)
2020-01-25T05:14:00 < machinehum> Was confused why you lumped go into that catagory until I started reading about it
2020-01-25T05:17:39 < machinehum> How does ada do dynamic memory?
2020-01-25T05:24:40 < Cracki> look for "ada pool"
2020-01-25T05:24:43 < specing> tbh I haven't needed dynamic memory yet
2020-01-25T05:25:00 < specing> but it is "new" and Unchecked_Deallocation, afaik
2020-01-25T05:25:29 < Cracki> https://www.adaic.org/resources/add_content/docs/craft/html/ch11.htm
2020-01-25T05:25:32 < machinehum> Do you just do embedded work?
2020-01-25T05:27:18 < specing> machinehum: I do Ada on GNU+Linux (normal programs and webdev) and Ada on stm32
2020-01-25T05:28:06 < machinehum> cool
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2020-01-25T05:28:27 < machinehum> You havn't used dyamic mem for all the Linux stuff
2020-01-25T05:29:25 < specing> nope
2020-01-25T05:29:29 < specing> containers are enough
2020-01-25T05:29:54 < specing> and you can return records from functions via the secondary stack
2020-01-25T05:30:52 < machinehum> So basically ada uses new/delete, meaning you have to manage the memory yourself
2020-01-25T05:31:12 < machinehum> secondary stack
2020-01-25T05:31:15 < machinehum> Tell me more
2020-01-25T05:34:32 < machinehum> jk google
2020-01-25T06:07:03 -!- upgrdman [~upgrdman@blender/artist/upgrdman] has joined ##stm32
2020-01-25T06:08:28 < upgrdman> if i want fast ADCs and a high-speed (480Mbps) usb, anyone know what the best value is? doesnt need to be stm. pic32mk seems like it might be the cheapest
2020-01-25T06:08:49 < doomba> wooo yeah tucker taft!
2020-01-25T06:09:03 < doomba> so yea all those stm32g03x's are toast
2020-01-25T06:09:11 < doomba> never buyin themz again
2020-01-25T06:09:57 < specing> upgrdman: I think there is a cortex-m with 80 msps adc out there
2020-01-25T06:10:22 < upgrdman> ya nxp
2020-01-25T06:10:30 < upgrdman> but supposedly its dma is the weak point
2020-01-25T06:10:38 < upgrdman> cant feed usb very fast
2020-01-25T06:10:48 < doomba> i confirmed both st-links and soic clip are working by lots of dmm/oscope and connecting them to f103 and f4 and l4's. everything works except these stm32g0's
2020-01-25T06:10:54 < upgrdman> can stm32g4 do crystal-less usb?
2020-01-25T06:11:01 < doomba> yea i think so
2020-01-25T06:11:08 < doomba> but fuck em
2020-01-25T06:17:15 < Thorn> https://twitter.com/alert5/status/1220724798382387201
2020-01-25T06:19:40 < Cracki> run run run
2020-01-25T06:20:19 < Cracki> they could just let it run its course and repopulate using immune survivors
2020-01-25T06:24:49 < Cracki> so I googled "rust simple example" and this turned up https://doc.rust-lang.org/rust-by-example/hello.html
2020-01-25T06:25:08 < Cracki> you might think it's not syntax-highlighted but it is! it's just to faint that you don't notice
2020-01-25T06:25:31 < Cracki> also the gray-on-gray eye rape
2020-01-25T06:25:50 < Cracki> >A big part of a welcoming Rust community is reaching out to non-users as well. As we have in years past, we again asked the reasons why people weren't using Rust.   https://blog.rust-lang.org/2018/11/27/Rust-survey-2018.html
2020-01-25T06:25:50 < doomba> click the little paintbrush and then Ayu
2020-01-25T06:26:13 < Cracki> you expect me to notice that gray-on-gray paintbrush? I saw the burger menu and that merely toggled the toc
2020-01-25T06:26:24 < doomba> what about the CoC?
2020-01-25T06:26:42 < Cracki> the only "themes" with noticeable syntax highlighting are the "dark" themes
2020-01-25T06:26:53 < Cracki> oh yes the coc
2020-01-25T06:27:03 < Cracki> don't shove it down my throat
2020-01-25T06:27:10 < doomba> damn these stm32g031j6's
2020-01-25T06:27:24 < doomba> i'm gonna be sad for days
2020-01-25T06:27:28 < Cracki> still banging your head against a fence?
2020-01-25T06:27:46 < doomba> yea i wasted almost 6 hours of my life trying to SWD them
2020-01-25T06:28:00 < Cracki> same here with that a4955. I'm starting to wonder if boss messed up with some footprints or values of passives.
2020-01-25T06:28:26 < Cracki> how many targets do you have to verify it's not a one-off?
2020-01-25T06:28:37 < doomba> 5
2020-01-25T06:28:38 < englishman> PaulFertser: kung fury was awesome. kung fury 2 coming soon
2020-01-25T06:28:40 < doomba> and i tried them all
2020-01-25T06:28:58 < doomba> also 2 st-links
2020-01-25T06:29:03 < Cracki> anything other than a stink?
2020-01-25T06:29:04 < doomba> and a bus pirate just for shits
2020-01-25T06:29:18 < Cracki> butt pirate, that thing can speak swd?
2020-01-25T06:29:34 < doomba> openocd can talk to it
2020-01-25T06:29:36 < Cracki> order a jewlink off aliex, it's very cheap
2020-01-25T06:29:56 < doomba> i have a cmsis-dap coming from aliex in like 3 years
2020-01-25T06:29:59 < doomba> whenever it ships
2020-01-25T06:30:02 < doomba> says 18 days
2020-01-25T06:30:09 < Cracki> never, good luck
2020-01-25T06:30:18 < doomba> it's not for stm32
2020-01-25T06:30:41 < Cracki> they have boards with jlink OB on them, as well as the normal sized jlinks, some supposedly even with complimentary uart
2020-01-25T06:31:02 < Cracki> and wat programs host-side?
2020-01-25T06:31:27 < Cracki> stm32cubeprog might be worth a try?
2020-01-25T06:31:33 < doomba> i tried st-info --probe, openocd in lunix, and even tried st-link util in win 10 vm
2020-01-25T06:31:44 < Cracki> or does everything indicate that your targets don't even power up?
2020-01-25T06:31:44 < doomba> then i tried a patched openocd for stm32g0 (the sysprogs shit) in win10
2020-01-25T06:32:01 < doomba> openocd gets an unknown error 0x5 from st-link
2020-01-25T06:32:06 < Cracki> kek
2020-01-25T06:32:13 < doomba> st-info --probe says the chip id is 0x0000
2020-01-25T06:32:13 < Cracki> errata sheet?
2020-01-25T06:32:31 < doomba> gonna look for it
2020-01-25T06:32:38 < Cracki> how many pins does that fucker have? eight? does it maybe need SWIM?
2020-01-25T06:32:45 < doomba> 8
2020-01-25T06:33:01 < Cracki> debug probes are told to use reset pin?
2020-01-25T06:33:41 < doomba> i tried with and without pin 4 connected (nrst)
2020-01-25T06:34:15 < Cracki> 0000 id could mean it's communicating properly but the id is 0000, or that the wrong (or a dead) pin is read and interpreted...
2020-01-25T06:34:20 < doomba> i tried manually fudging reset and boot0 and vdd to get it into bootloader and then tried stm32flash to try to talk to uart bootloader
2020-01-25T06:34:31 < Cracki> ah right, it has rom bootloaders
2020-01-25T06:34:57 < doomba> yea i figured if stlink won't talk SWD to it i'd try uart bootloader
2020-01-25T06:34:58 < Cracki> how much current does it draw in bootloader mode and outside of it?
2020-01-25T06:35:13 < doomba> didn't try that
2020-01-25T06:35:33 < Cracki> not expecting a difference honestly
2020-01-25T06:36:03 < doomba> mind you, i've never been able to get stm32flash to work with any mcu
2020-01-25T06:36:07 < doomba> even when i can confirm they're in boot mode
2020-01-25T06:36:11 < Cracki> but I have no idea how else to determine if maybe all five of them are dead, or whatever
2020-01-25T06:37:52 < Cracki> after that i'd start diode voltage measurements across all pairs of pins
2020-01-25T06:38:18 < Cracki> so 7*8=56 measurements :P
2020-01-25T06:39:10 < Cracki> when I did that to a contact image sensor (ripped from a cheap multifunction printer/scanner) I needed a bench supply to dial in 10 mA because my meter tried 1 mA and that didn't do anything to the LEDs it contains
2020-01-25T06:40:07 < doomba> errata didn't give any hints
2020-01-25T06:41:30 < Thorn> https://twitter.com/BANDIT_XRAY/status/1220900922773032960
2020-01-25T06:41:57 < englishman> lol
2020-01-25T06:42:02 < Cracki> hold on, didn't you say you have a nucleo
2020-01-25T06:42:15 < Cracki> does the nucleo's own stlink work with its own g030?
2020-01-25T06:42:50 < Cracki> Closing!!!
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2020-01-25T06:49:19 < doomba> i don't have a nucleo g030
2020-01-25T06:49:48 < doomba> it's a nucleo l496zg that i cut
2020-01-25T06:50:02 < doomba> so it's just a standalone st-link
2020-01-25T06:50:07 < doomba> the other st-link is on a f4disco
2020-01-25T06:52:22 < Cracki> hmhm
2020-01-25T06:52:50 < Cracki> all those stlinks manage to connect to whatever other stm32s you have there?
2020-01-25T06:53:08 < Cracki> (I'm wary of stlinks cut from discos/nucleos)
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2020-01-25T07:07:54 < doomba> yep
2020-01-25T07:08:03 < doomba> even the cut stlink works on other stm32s
2020-01-25T07:08:06 < Cracki> µsterious
2020-01-25T07:08:24 < Cracki> k then I pronounce dead all the g030s you have
2020-01-25T07:08:38 < Cracki> that or you're holding the pinout wrong
2020-01-25T07:09:01 < Cracki> how much power do they take when you give them just gnd and supply?
2020-01-25T07:09:08 -!- boB_K7IQ [~boB_K7IQ@170.173.8.12] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds]
2020-01-25T07:26:29 < aandrew> https://youtu.be/vMbS9CdnnC4 what the fuck is with her tits
2020-01-25T07:28:58 < Cracki> monoboob
2020-01-25T07:29:09 < Cracki> you mean the intro or her actual tits
2020-01-25T07:29:21 < Cracki> ye looks like implants and skin stretched too much
2020-01-25T07:29:32 < aandrew> exactly
2020-01-25T07:29:35 < Cracki> also is it my eyes or is her one boob thicker than the other
2020-01-25T07:29:43 < Cracki> the one on the anatomical right is juicier
2020-01-25T07:29:48 < Cracki> starts higher too
2020-01-25T07:29:49 < aandrew> they're not healthy that's for sure
2020-01-25T07:30:16 < Cracki> >where are her organs
2020-01-25T07:30:31 < Cracki> >this is what industrialized farming does to them!
2020-01-25T07:35:56 < Cracki> just gave an atmega644 some juice. at 5.0v it's taking 10 mA, at 3.3v it's just 1 mA
2020-01-25T07:36:17 < Cracki> (fresh and dumb out of the rail)
2020-01-25T07:37:03 -!- Laurenceb [~laurence@121.177.208.46.dyn.plus.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds]
2020-01-25T07:39:10 < Cracki> 8 MHz 5V, data sheet: active 9 mA, idle 2.5 mA. matches.
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2020-01-25T07:45:22 < Cracki> >The tensile strength of those shoulder straps are the real engineering marvel. 
2020-01-25T07:45:30 < aandrew> Cracki: LOL!
2020-01-25T07:54:09 < Cracki> https://pbs.twimg.com/media/EPGdAtcU4AAnIIs.png
2020-01-25T07:54:52 < Cracki> baby mommy should go to trade school instead
2020-01-25T08:10:34 < Cracki> play Pandemic: https://gisanddata.maps.arcgis.com/apps/opsdashboard/index.html#/bda7594740fd40299423467b48e9ecf6
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2020-01-25T08:38:27 < Cracki> coronavirus so far: 41 dead, 38 recovered, rest in limbo
2020-01-25T08:39:03 < Cracki> *sips bat soup*
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2020-01-25T09:18:59 < oz4ga> bat soup? No piss eggs today?
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2020-01-25T10:54:21 < thardin> oz4ga is just jealous because no virgin boys want to give him their pee
2020-01-25T10:56:37  * oz4ga pees in thardin's keyboard
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2020-01-25T11:41:13 < Thorn> https://twitter.com/DrEricDing/status/1220919589623803905
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2020-01-25T14:08:47 < jadew> sup?
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2020-01-25T14:44:19 < Steffanx> sky
2020-01-25T14:50:27 < antto> wut if he's in space?
2020-01-25T14:50:34 < antto> which way is "up" ?
2020-01-25T14:50:41 < antto> did u just assume?
2020-01-25T14:58:52 < Steffanx> Its all happening in my mind antto. So its what i make it.
2020-01-25T14:59:03 < Steffanx> or what my mind makes of it
2020-01-25T14:59:15 < antto> wat if ur mind is a little dirty?
2020-01-25T15:01:39 < Steffanx> hm
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2020-01-25T15:27:44 < BrainDamage> i see your piss egg and I raise you a https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Century_egg
2020-01-25T15:31:11 < oz4ga> egghead
2020-01-25T15:34:16 < Steffanx> You're surprisingly responsive when it comes to egg posts oz4ga :P
2020-01-25T15:34:45 < oz4ga> it'as a coincidens
2020-01-25T15:35:11 < Steffanx> No eggcuses.
2020-01-25T16:11:32 < Thorn> https://imgur.com/a/m91RAOz
2020-01-25T16:16:56 < englishman> lol
2020-01-25T16:17:17 < englishman> @ inviting senior doctors to a lecture by an expert on infectious disease
2020-01-25T16:17:20 < englishman> and getting infected
2020-01-25T16:19:37 < Thorn> http://joyreactor.cc/post/4220321 you've got a package @ from China
2020-01-25T16:21:05 < englishman> musics https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tfA9fnF-2EQ
2020-01-25T16:23:32 < Steffanx> Yeah, imgur with some random translations is a trustworthy source :P
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2020-01-25T16:25:02 < Thorn> Steffanx: aiui those images were collected form 4chan
2020-01-25T16:25:12 < Steffanx> oh that makes it better.
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2020-01-25T17:24:41 < BrainDamage> to be fair, with china official news are not trustworthy either
2020-01-25T17:24:54 < BrainDamage> so welcome to the limbo
2020-01-25T17:25:56 < Steffanx> True that
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2020-01-25T17:38:54 < bitmask> heyooo
2020-01-25T17:43:55 < Steffanx> hello bitmaks
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2020-01-25T19:01:03 < Laurenceb> trump was a good boy
2020-01-25T19:01:09 < Laurenceb> he dindu nuffin
2020-01-25T19:01:52 < antto> u mean a gud boi?
2020-01-25T19:02:52  * antto puts a white beard on Loirensbee
2020-01-25T19:03:04 < antto> will u give him a present for eggsmass?
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2020-01-25T19:35:22 < bitmask> what am I doing
2020-01-25T19:37:46 < Steffanx> yes what ARE you doing?
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2020-01-25T19:45:48 < jpa-> i think he's masking all the bits
2020-01-25T19:51:13 < Steffanx> I heard this in this voice: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LnnfEh_CiVc
2020-01-25T20:06:01 < mawk> I am learning haskell Steffanx 
2020-01-25T20:06:05 < mawk> learn it too
2020-01-25T20:06:47 < englishman> Thorn: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lJwnHuebWmw
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2020-01-25T20:11:32 < Steffanx> no thanks mawk
2020-01-25T20:13:27 < Steffanx> Will you introduce it at work?
2020-01-25T20:14:16 < PaulFertser> Steffanx: if you haven't tried anything which makes you think about pure functions and composition, definitely worth your time I'd say. If not Haskell, then do Scala or something.
2020-01-25T20:15:25 < BrainDamage> you can do pure functional in many programming languages, it's just more awkward
2020-01-25T20:15:48 < mawk> was used to doing it in python before
2020-01-25T20:15:59 < mawk> with iterators and the functional module
2020-01-25T20:16:36 < englishman> catphish: https://www.cnx-software.com/2020/01/24/210-motile-performance-laptop-is-powered-by-amd-ryzen-3-3200u-processor/
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2020-01-25T20:20:19 < PaulFertser> BrainDamage: sure, and it's kinda mainstream for the popular languages to get some "functional" features. But in its distilled form, to concentrate on what's really "broadens your horizons" Steffanx using some "flamboyantly functional" language is recommended I'd say.
2020-01-25T20:20:19 < catphish> englishman: impressive
2020-01-25T20:22:05 < catphish> englishman: needs some RAM and SSD upgrade, and does it really need to be pink?
2020-01-25T20:22:18 < catphish> ah, availale in black :)
2020-01-25T20:23:00 < bitmask> normally id be pissed that I got a car wash yesterday and it rained today, but, I can just go again tomorrow! :)
2020-01-25T20:23:04 < mawk> they asked me if it would be a good idea Steffanx 
2020-01-25T20:23:12 < mawk> they also said the competitor is using haskell
2020-01-25T20:23:20 < bitmask> maybe I'll go today too :P
2020-01-25T20:23:26 < bitmask> while its still raining
2020-01-25T20:23:27 < mawk> because you're rich now bitmask ?
2020-01-25T20:23:46 < bitmask> not at all, I got 5 months of unlimited car washes as a gift for christmas, just started it yesterday
2020-01-25T20:23:52 < mawk> ah lol
2020-01-25T20:24:10 < catphish> looks like they do a ryzen 5 for not much more money too
2020-01-25T20:24:19 < catphish> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xPQPFh-LhI8
2020-01-25T20:31:48 < Steffanx> so what is mawk doign with haksell?
2020-01-25T20:35:00 < mawk> haSKell :(
2020-01-25T20:35:03 < mawk> nothing yet
2020-01-25T20:35:06 < mawk> just learning
2020-01-25T20:35:10 < mawk> maybe some mathz later
2020-01-25T20:35:24 < Steffanx> haksell :P
2020-01-25T20:35:58 < mawk> :((
2020-01-25T20:36:04 < mawk> hasssssssskkkkkkkkkkkkell
2020-01-25T20:36:32 < Cracki> lol https://stevedonovan.github.io/rust-gentle-intro/1-basics.html
2020-01-25T20:36:54 < BrainDamage> askhell
2020-01-25T20:37:03 < Cracki> a range being inclusive-exclusive is the proper way but when you choose to use the "x..y" syntax, the y should be inclusive. they're doing it wrong.
2020-01-25T20:37:45 < Cracki> 0..n-1 would be perfectly legible, or range(n)
2020-01-25T20:37:50 < mawk> Haskell> [1..5]
2020-01-25T20:37:52 < mawk> [1,2,3,4,5]
2020-01-25T20:37:56 < Cracki> ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
2020-01-25T20:37:58 < mawk> learn haskell Cracki 
2020-01-25T20:38:14 < Cracki> python's slice syntax is incl-excl, but it uses a colon to separate, which doesn't imply inclusiveness
2020-01-25T20:38:17 < qyx> println, is it pascal?
2020-01-25T20:38:22 < Cracki> I did use haskell for uni
2020-01-25T20:39:12 < Cracki> this has several pages that have to explain macros and "std::fmt" and "traits" without really explaining them, BEFORE even getting to primitives! https://doc.rust-lang.org/rust-by-example/
2020-01-25T20:39:38 < Cracki> shit like that tells me they haven't even thought about how to excuse their warts
2020-01-25T20:39:49 < Laurenceb> https://ichef.bbci.co.uk/news/624/cpsprodpb/13648/production/_110623497_climate1.jpg
2020-01-25T20:40:16 < BrainDamage> so how's brexit going Laurenceb?
2020-01-25T20:40:25 < Laurenceb> based tbh
2020-01-25T20:40:26 < BrainDamage> is you being jobless a direct consequence?
2020-01-25T20:40:33 < Laurenceb> lol
2020-01-25T20:41:04 < Laurenceb> trying to write muh space runway paper
2020-01-25T20:41:10 < Laurenceb> this is taking way too long
2020-01-25T20:41:36 < Steffanx> and is a waste of time no matter what?
2020-01-25T20:41:37 < Cracki> what the fuck https://doc.rust-lang.org/edition-guide/rust-2018/data-types/inclusive-ranges.html
2020-01-25T20:41:44 < Laurenceb> I just realised the nasaspaceflight guy is also responsible for "The Most Terrifying Thought Experiment of All Time"
2020-01-25T20:41:48 < Cracki> I understand why, but what the fuck
2020-01-25T20:42:02 < Cracki> you just realized that weeks or months ago. did you forget?
2020-01-25T20:42:10 < Laurenceb> doh
2020-01-25T20:42:17 < Laurenceb> I'm just plain incoherent
2020-01-25T20:42:31 < Cracki> try bat soup
2020-01-25T20:42:41 < Cracki> cures what ails ya
2020-01-25T20:42:53 < BrainDamage> if the meat is sufficiently cooked, virus won't survive
2020-01-25T20:42:56 < Cracki> and a nice Corona beer (carbonated bat soup) to wash it down
2020-01-25T20:43:09 < Cracki> google "china gutter oil"
2020-01-25T20:43:12 < Laurenceb> I dont get the bat soup
2020-01-25T20:43:21 < Laurenceb> I mean at least take the fur off first
2020-01-25T20:43:23 < Laurenceb> like wtf
2020-01-25T20:43:29 < Cracki> the corona virus is said to have come from bats to humans
2020-01-25T20:44:12 < Cracki> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zrv78nG9R04
2020-01-25T20:44:13 < englishman> Laurenceb: the "rule 34" of chinese cuisine
2020-01-25T20:44:19 < englishman> if it exists, it is traditional chinese cuisine
2020-01-25T20:44:28 < Laurenceb> lol
2020-01-25T20:44:50 < Laurenceb> >just an entire bat stuck in a bowl of soup
2020-01-25T20:44:55 < Cracki> they scoop grease out of cutters and deliver it to restaurants
2020-01-25T20:45:38 < Cracki> close all airports, close the borders, post armed guards
2020-01-25T20:49:00 < Cracki> how did rust even begin? I bet they don't have a benevolent dictator like python did with guido van possum
2020-01-25T20:53:23 < catphish> that AMD laptop made me realise i can get a thinkpad with a Ryzen processor too, really nice price / spec on that too, 1000 english dollars for a ryzen 7, 24GB RAM and a 1TB SSD :)
2020-01-25T20:53:34 < catphish> plus no nvidia shit
2020-01-25T20:54:23 < Steffanx> dedotated wam?
2020-01-25T20:55:11 < specing> catphish: ryzen thinkpad??
2020-01-25T20:55:55 < Steffanx> Is Lenovo still relevant in 2020?
2020-01-25T20:58:39 < Laurenceb> >the current year
2020-01-25T20:59:17 < Steffanx> Yes, Brexit-year
2020-01-25T21:10:36 < srk> mawk: cool, you can use haskell to stm32 too :)
2020-01-25T21:16:21 < PaulFertser> Laurenceb: will you be still part of the Customs Union essentially even past the 31st Jan?
2020-01-25T21:16:50 < Laurenceb> aiui yes
2020-01-25T21:16:58 < PaulFertser> So brexit is far from over, heh.
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2020-01-25T21:19:59 < Steffanx> There is still no deal is there? So no EU Customs Union stuff "aiui"
2020-01-25T21:20:21 < Steffanx> i mean, except for the current one
2020-01-25T21:20:44 < Steffanx> but then there is still the no-brexit without a deal thing.
2020-01-25T21:20:48 < BrainDamage> without a deal article 21 means they quit everything
2020-01-25T21:23:46 < Steffanx> But how does that work with this "no-brexit without a deal"-law they have now?
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2020-01-25T21:26:24 < BrainDamage> that they keep procrastinating until one of the parties give up
2020-01-25T21:27:06 < BrainDamage> EU has full authority to refuse further delays, if it wants
2020-01-25T21:27:17 < BrainDamage> and UK can stop requesting them
2020-01-25T21:27:37 < BrainDamage> UK can also un-do the law it passed
2020-01-25T21:27:52 < BrainDamage> it can even retire the exit request as I understand
2020-01-25T21:28:39 < BrainDamage> the long and short version is that nothing changed
2020-01-25T21:29:20 < BrainDamage> I think the appropriate term would be "pusillanimous"
2020-01-25T21:32:27 < PaulFertser> :D
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2020-01-25T21:43:53 < Cracki> >pusill... https://www.google.com/search?q=fusilli&tbm=isch
2020-01-25T21:44:09 < Cracki> yes I'll go eat something
2020-01-25T21:44:31 < Steffanx> i hate those
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2020-01-25T21:46:37 < Laurenceb> hello everybody
2020-01-25T21:46:49 < Laurenceb> My dad works at nintendo and just said that there's been an outbreak of corona virus at their UK office
2020-01-25T21:47:08 < Laurenceb> The word on the street in Birmingham is that air drops from NATO and hazmat suits are being prepared
2020-01-25T21:47:42 -!- c10ud [~c10ud@emesene/dictator/c10ud] has quit [Ping timeout: 268 seconds]
2020-01-25T21:49:10 < Cracki> >nintendo
2020-01-25T21:49:21 < Cracki> people talk about pasta and you think copypasta
2020-01-25T21:49:57 < Cracki> lol fusilli are on sale today what a coincidence
2020-01-25T21:51:35 < Steffanx> everyone knows your dad is in thailand Laurenceb.
2020-01-25T21:53:04 < englishman> sars 2.0 genetically engineered by genius trump himself to distract from the impeachment
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2020-01-25T22:12:56 < Laurenceb> >starsign says something vague about being happy that day
2020-01-25T22:12:56 < Laurenceb> >find a penny
2020-01-25T22:12:56 < Laurenceb> >"the stars were right!"
2020-01-25T22:13:07 < Laurenceb> >Q says something vague will happen within the next few months
2020-01-25T22:13:07 < Laurenceb> >it happens
2020-01-25T22:13:07 < Laurenceb> >"Q WAS RIGHT AGAIN!"
2020-01-25T22:13:34 < mawk> lol yeah
2020-01-25T22:13:38 < thardin> top minds at work as always
2020-01-25T22:13:39 < mawk> and >few next months
2020-01-25T22:13:49 < mawk> increases the chances that something will happen
2020-01-25T22:13:52 < thardin> gotta keep that eternal present going
2020-01-25T22:13:54 < mawk> no risk involved
2020-01-25T22:24:06 < catphish> specing: T495
2020-01-25T22:29:58 < specing> wait what, T-series thinkpad with non-intel CPU???
2020-01-25T22:30:04 < specing> blasphemy!
2020-01-25T22:30:42 < specing> " It runs efficiently, with high-definition audio that won't drain your battery."
2020-01-25T22:30:47 < specing> perpetuum audibile
2020-01-25T22:43:19 < catphish> lol
2020-01-25T22:43:31 < catphish> that does seem like it might be a good buy
2020-01-25T22:44:02 < specing> AMD looked fine until they decided to follow intel's lead in backdoors
2020-01-25T22:44:36 < Steffanx> follow..
2020-01-25T22:44:41 < specing> "AMD is the better choice. Lenovo's ThinkPad T495 is finally a full-fledged AMD business notebook with almost no compromises"
2020-01-25T22:44:42 < catphish> i don't know much about ryzen, seems to come in a little behind intel on behchmarks, but probably made up for in cost, dunno about power management
2020-01-25T22:44:43 < specing> "almost"
2020-01-25T22:44:50 < specing> So there were compromises? Hmmm
2020-01-25T22:45:44 < catphish> it's dramatically cheaper then the intel version though
2020-01-25T22:46:04 < Thorn> >7 Chinese tourists hospitalized with fever from a Moscow hotel
2020-01-25T22:46:44 < catphish> i assume the intgrated GPU beats intel's too
2020-01-25T22:46:52 < catphish> people play games on those ryzen chips
2020-01-25T22:47:36 < Steffanx> i wonder when dutchland will go into full panic mode. Especially since some basic flu is going around as well.
2020-01-25T22:47:48 < Steffanx> *common
2020-01-25T22:47:52 < catphish> radeon rx vega 10, sounds fancy
2020-01-25T22:48:45 < catphish> stay away from the sick chinese looking people i guess
2020-01-25T22:49:08 < Steffanx> also non-chinese looking people go on holiday to chinaland
2020-01-25T22:50:36 < catphish> why would anyone do that?
2020-01-25T22:50:52 < Steffanx> Yes, because.
2020-01-25T22:51:30 < Steffanx> Some news camera crew was at the airport today interviewing people going to china. Today. For a holiday.
2020-01-25T22:52:09 < catphish> well i hope they enjoy their short lives filled with low quality meat
2020-01-25T22:52:10 < Steffanx> usually im not easily scared, but i would avoid going to china atm.
2020-01-25T22:52:56 < catphish> it does seems like it's worth avoiding places with untreatable new viruses
2020-01-25T22:56:11 < englishman> beginner flu
2020-01-25T22:56:39 < englishman> just dont become a doctor in wuhan.
2020-01-25T23:03:36 < Steffanx> Yeah probably
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2020-01-25T23:10:01 < PaulFertser> There's a cool local radio programme about science, and the science guy was asked if he would go to China now for e.g. work. He said: "Def. yes, I do not see why I should be afraid. Would be kinda funny if I really died of that virus as the result."
2020-01-25T23:11:35 < Steffanx> He can easily say that when he knows he's not going any time soon
2020-01-25T23:11:58 < Steffanx> Can we do a crowd funding to make him go?
2020-01-25T23:12:12 < PaulFertser> He is a real mathematician and a science geek, I guess he'd go.
2020-01-25T23:13:35 < PaulFertser> He is the chief editor of nplus1.ru website, and all of their articles have plenty of proof links, citing real papers, arxiv.org materials etc. That's how science news should really be done.
2020-01-25T23:18:03 < PaulFertser> https://ru.wikipedia.org/wiki/%D0%9A%D0%BE%D0%BD%D1%8F%D0%B5%D0%B2%2C_%D0%90%D0%BD%D0%B4%D1%80%D0%B5%D0%B9_%D0%AE%D1%80%D1%8C%D0%B5%D0%B2%D0%B8%D1%87
2020-01-25T23:25:51 < PaulFertser> Co-authored a recent work: https://arxiv.org/abs/1903.04603
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2020-01-25T23:41:08 < Cracki> what's his reasoning for being willing to go?
2020-01-25T23:41:47 < Cracki> does he figure he'd sooner be stabbed to death than catch it and die?
2020-01-25T23:49:38 < PaulFertser> Cracki: yes, there's no scientific evidence that "going to China" now is measurably more dangerous than the usual activities.
--- Day changed Sun Jan 26 2020
2020-01-26T00:01:24 < qyx> so is it safe to open my china PCBs?
2020-01-26T00:02:01 < specing> qyx: dip them three times into holy water
2020-01-26T00:02:14 < qyx> k
2020-01-26T00:04:06 < disposabled[m]> If my main loop runs much faster than I require, is it best to slow the clock, or to just sleep some arbitrary length each loop?
2020-01-26T00:05:16 < disposabled[m]> If I slow SYSCLK, does that effect how responsively interrupts are triggered?
2020-01-26T00:05:26 < zyp> yes
2020-01-26T00:05:29 < qyx> es
2020-01-26T00:05:35 < zyp> interrupt latency is measured in cycles
2020-01-26T00:06:53 < zyp> which is better depends on your needs
2020-01-26T00:07:12 < disposabled[m]> is there a way to slow the main loop without effecting interrupts?
2020-01-26T00:07:46 < zyp> going to sleep and waking up might also take some time, depending on how deep you sleep
2020-01-26T00:08:07 < zyp> why?
2020-01-26T00:08:41 < specing> disposabled[m]: just sleep
2020-01-26T00:08:55 < zyp> slowing the main loop isn't the goal, it's just the means, the end goal must be power saving for it to make sense to not just run at full speed, right?
2020-01-26T00:09:10 < specing> X - Y problem
2020-01-26T00:09:38 < zyp> if you don't have a power budget, there's no point at all to not just busywait
2020-01-26T00:10:03 < disposabled[m]> zyp: I have an interrupt that needs to fire on AC mains zero crossing. Everything else only needs to happen once or so in between that interrupt
2020-01-26T00:10:40 < disposabled[m]> So I was thinking about power consumption, etc
2020-01-26T00:10:45 < zyp> what is the interrupt handler doing?
2020-01-26T00:11:11 < disposabled[m]> shaping power
2020-01-26T00:11:39 < zyp> ?
2020-01-26T00:12:29 < disposabled[m]> so it checks the latest of various readings then closes a circuit and determines when to open the circuit again based on those readings
2020-01-26T00:12:50 < disposabled[m]> the readings can happen continuously, but they will only matter at every zc
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2020-01-26T00:13:36 < disposabled[m]> because that is when the interrupt will use them to shape the power curve
2020-01-26T00:14:38 < zyp> sounds like a trailing edge dimmer
2020-01-26T00:15:16 < disposabled[m]> similar
2020-01-26T00:15:21 < qyx> t0Hz?
2020-01-26T00:15:23 < qyx> uh
2020-01-26T00:15:26 < qyx> 50Hz?
2020-01-26T00:15:35 < disposabled[m]> 60
2020-01-26T00:15:53 < qyx> do you plan to run the sysclk at 10kHz or so?
2020-01-26T00:16:02 < zyp> interrupt will fire at 120?
2020-01-26T00:16:13 < disposabled[m]> that's what I'm trying to figure now
2020-01-26T00:17:16 < disposabled[m]> I need to detect edges that only exist for small fractions of each half wave
2020-01-26T00:17:55 < disposabled[m]> So I need my latency to be within that window
2020-01-26T00:18:02 < zyp> sounds like you're doing something mains powered, best way might be to just run full speed and wfi in between interrupts when you don't have anything useful to do
2020-01-26T00:18:31 < zyp> i.e. the lightest type of sleep, essentially just stopping the cpu
2020-01-26T00:19:07 < zyp> saves some power without affecting interrupt latency at all
2020-01-26T00:19:44 < disposabled[m]> I will taking readings between interrupts
2020-01-26T00:19:51 < zyp> by the way, what's your latency budget? IIRC typical interrupt latency is on the order of a microsecond or so
2020-01-26T00:20:06 < zyp> sure, just have a lower priority interrupt do that
2020-01-26T00:22:24 < disposabled[m]> zyp: the important thing is not to miss the zc. I'm not sure yet how big that window is.
2020-01-26T00:23:33 < qyx> is zero crossing a window?
2020-01-26T00:24:21 < disposabled[m]> I assume that edge detection has to happen within the window of the edge state
2020-01-26T00:24:29 < zyp> what edge?
2020-01-26T00:25:46 < zyp> you got some external circuitry that gives you a short pulse at the zero crossing?
2020-01-26T00:25:55 < zyp> and this is triggering EXTI?
2020-01-26T00:26:34 < zyp> or how does your zc fire an interrupt?
2020-01-26T00:26:48 < disposabled[m]> I'm using an opto to turn the ac wave into a square wave. So once the ac curve falls below a certain threshhold, the opto cuts out. Then cuts back in when the wave moves back over that threshhold
2020-01-26T00:27:31 < disposabled[m]> so that will happen in a brief window very near zc
2020-01-26T00:27:55 < zyp> ah, on a rectified signal?
2020-01-26T00:28:07 < disposabled[m]> right
2020-01-26T00:28:44 < disposabled[m]> the opto is rectifying the signal for me
2020-01-26T00:28:52 < zyp> how so?
2020-01-26T00:29:12 < qyx> why are you using bidir opto then?
2020-01-26T00:29:16 < zyp> and why would you want that?
2020-01-26T00:29:18 < qyx> it makes things mharder
2020-01-26T00:29:20 < specing> disposabled[m]: perhaps you should first calculate your "max allowable latency"
2020-01-26T00:29:24 < zyp> what qyx said
2020-01-26T00:30:10 < zyp> a normal optoisolator with a unidirectional led would be on during positive half wave and off during negative half wave
2020-01-26T00:30:11 < specing> disposabled[m]: the hardware edge trigger will NOT miss the edge if only it is wide enough, where wide enough is probably less than a microsecond
2020-01-26T00:30:17 < zyp> and toggle at each zero crossing
2020-01-26T00:30:31 < qyx> what zyp said
2020-01-26T00:30:52 < qyx> and configure exti to detect both edges
2020-01-26T00:31:04 < specing> disposabled[m]: do you have this thing working yet?
2020-01-26T00:31:07 < qyx> or input capture or whatever
2020-01-26T00:31:13 < specing> if not, worry about power saving latter
2020-01-26T00:31:26 < zyp> that too
2020-01-26T00:32:44 < Cracki> disposabled[m], how much power do you consume right now
2020-01-26T00:32:50 < disposabled[m]> zyp: I'm using an H11AA1 so it only falls during zc, then comes back up
2020-01-26T00:33:06 < Cracki> I find it pointless to save the few milliamps your stm32 will draw running vs idle/sleeping
2020-01-26T00:33:07 < zyp> disposabled[m], but why?
2020-01-26T00:33:57 < disposabled[m]> zyp: because that is the hardware I have
2020-01-26T00:34:19 < zyp> if you have the hardware, measure the period
2020-01-26T00:35:01 < zyp> but also what specing said, EXTI will catch edges that disappears before the actual interrupt handler fires
2020-01-26T00:36:20 < disposabled[m]> oh. I didn't understand that
2020-01-26T00:36:59 < Cracki> the detection of an edge sets a bit. that bit causes an interrupt handler to be executed as soon as possible.
2020-01-26T00:37:21 < Cracki> the edge may be of a pulse that's narrower than the 6 or so cycles it takes for a handler to start running
2020-01-26T00:37:37 < disposabled[m]> I thought detection would be affected by the clock
2020-01-26T00:37:48 < Cracki> (not sure if that was 6 or 12 or whatever variable number depending on what the fuck kinda cortex people are most familiar with)
2020-01-26T00:38:05 < zyp> disposabled[m], well, sure, it will be
2020-01-26T00:38:07 < Cracki> it *may* not detect pulses (rising+falling) if they're between clock cycles
2020-01-26T00:38:32 < zyp> the edge detector needs maybe a couple of cycles to catch an edge
2020-01-26T00:38:34 < Cracki> unless the circuitry is such that it actually detects edges and doesn't just sample level and react to changing level
2020-01-26T00:38:42 < specing> Cracki: it is not pointless if you want to measure ambient temperature with the built-in sensor
2020-01-26T00:38:51 < Cracki> uh
2020-01-26T00:38:56 < zyp> but the actual interrupt handler will execute like 200 cycles later or so
2020-01-26T00:39:03 < Cracki> how accurate do you think the builtin sensor is
2020-01-26T00:39:15 < specing> Cracki: +- 5'C
2020-01-26T00:39:19 < qyx> haha
2020-01-26T00:39:34 < Cracki> "good enough for government work" is what they say
2020-01-26T00:40:13 < qyx> yeah measuring ambient temp by a sensor for measuring the die temperature itself
2020-01-26T00:40:15 < Cracki> the temp sensor in my f303 is noising around by about 1K. absolute value looks reasonably plausible, but I'd also say +- 5K
2020-01-26T00:40:26 < Cracki> so if you can calibrate it, that's good
2020-01-26T00:40:39 < disposabled[m]> the curve I am shaping controls a process that has a max frequency of 12Hz. So shaping on every half wave still gives my 10 adjustments per
2020-01-26T00:41:10 < Cracki> also people don't read data sheet and RM carefully enough. the temp sensor gives a voltage relating to temperature, but when you adc that, and your avcc isn't exactly 3.3v, you get different readings
2020-01-26T00:41:21 < Cracki> so you must calculate true voltages, and use those in the calculations
2020-01-26T00:41:34 < specing> Cracki: sure, but that goes for any ADC measurements
2020-01-26T00:41:46 < specing> not just the temp sensor
2020-01-26T00:41:56 < Cracki> I found some "canceled" formulas that just assume 3.3v avcc
2020-01-26T00:42:20 < Cracki> and peopel wonder why, when they use the internal calibration values for 30C and 110C, the result is fucked
2020-01-26T00:42:55 < Cracki> because the document didn't state strongly enough the condition of that simplified formula
2020-01-26T00:47:03 < specing> Cracki: I saw that on the "webdevs do hardware" show
2020-01-26T00:47:55 < Cracki> >_>
2020-01-26T00:48:38 < Cracki> don't blame the poor web devs. the problem is shit docs. there's no reason NOT to explain this properly right in the ds/rm.
2020-01-26T00:48:52 < specing> but it is explained
2020-01-26T00:48:57 < Cracki> yes.
2020-01-26T00:49:11 < qyx> not properly
2020-01-26T00:49:19 < qyx> Jan- said
2020-01-26T00:50:03 < Cracki> i had the ds, rm, and some appnote on adcs. and possibly some more material. at least one document glanced over the need to calculate voltages... thankfully I saw and implemented the proper formulas before I saw that. 
2020-01-26T00:50:25 < Cracki> when did she say things, also where? haven't noticed her here lately
2020-01-26T00:50:46 < BrainDamage> it was a brief but intense flirt
2020-01-26T00:50:58 < qyx> no docs were proper
2020-01-26T00:51:03 < BrainDamage> it think it sounded like "WAAAAHHHHHHH"
2020-01-26T00:51:12 < Cracki> steep learning curve
2020-01-26T00:51:30 < Cracki> I noticed the F303 rm I am dealing with has better english than the shit they have for f103
2020-01-26T00:51:50 < BrainDamage> no, her problem was that she wanted a fully custom toolchain from the get go
2020-01-26T00:52:08 < BrainDamage> and naturally she encountered knowledge gap every step
2020-01-26T00:52:16 < Cracki> yes, beginners should definitely complicate everything so the culture shock is maximized
2020-01-26T00:52:22 < specing> nah I think she wanted a 3-click solution to her problems
2020-01-26T00:52:27 < Cracki> that too
2020-01-26T00:52:38 < BrainDamage> she wanted a 3-click solution ... for her custom use case
2020-01-26T00:52:42 < BrainDamage> except it didn't exist
2020-01-26T00:52:48 < Cracki> but then, it doesn't help that you lack the highest-bandwidth sense humans usually have
2020-01-26T00:53:24 < BrainDamage> I feel like she didn't lack for help here, he problem was more of an attitude one
2020-01-26T00:53:55 < BrainDamage> ( also moved goalposts so many times over few days I lost count )
2020-01-26T00:54:07 < Cracki> can't quite remember, did she approach problems in smaller or larger steps?
2020-01-26T00:54:27 < Cracki> noobs have no idea how to "work" a problem
2020-01-26T00:54:32 < BrainDamage> larger step, she had a custom board and absolutely wanted to use some weird stdlib
2020-01-26T00:54:38 < Cracki> heh
2020-01-26T00:55:30 < Cracki> nail all the jelly to the wall, but where is the nail gun, and where are the nails, and where is the power outlet, and why are my eyes bleeding
2020-01-26T00:57:06 < Cracki> i can respect people when they work the problem and merely run out of assumptions to question (like roomba recently)
2020-01-26T00:57:52 < Cracki> that's methodical. she didn't seem to be methodical, and didn't seem to listen when people told her to be methodical.
2020-01-26T00:59:38 -!- mode/##stm32 [+o Steffanx] by ChanServ
2020-01-26T00:59:50 -!- mode/##stm32 [-o Steffanx] by Steffanx
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2020-01-26T01:03:32 < specing> Nah, she had a STM devkit I think
2020-01-26T01:11:47 < Steffanx> It might be here mental/physical state. There is something, but I dont know what. She was gonna tell it, but I wasnt really interested 
2020-01-26T01:12:11 < Steffanx> Especially since she talks about "we" all the time. Instead of I. 
2020-01-26T01:12:49 < Steffanx> But all IRCers have their quirks. Or develop one later on. Isnt it specing? 
2020-01-26T01:12:59 < specing> I think the 'we' is due to her operating her husband in slave mode
2020-01-26T01:13:20 < englishman> jan was the kind of chatter to be raised by a mother that told him he was the greatest no matter how badly he fucked up
2020-01-26T01:14:04 < Steffanx> englishman and his female-phobia.
2020-01-26T01:14:28 < Steffanx> I mean female-on-IRC phobia
2020-01-26T01:14:37 < qyx> lol
2020-01-26T01:14:45 < englishman> hi i'm a girl can anyone help me code :@)
2020-01-26T01:14:47 < Cracki> she had some kind of helper monkey
2020-01-26T01:15:06 < Steffanx> Hi englishman  how are the cats
2020-01-26T01:15:22 < BrainDamage> I once received a "partecipation medal", I felt so humiliated, I really doubt anyone wants those
2020-01-26T01:15:32 < Cracki> heh indeed
2020-01-26T01:17:15 < Steffanx> Want a stroopwafel instead, BrainDamage ? ( I still feel ashamed not offering it :( )
2020-01-26T01:18:00 < englishman> i had a waffel today
2020-01-26T01:18:04 < BrainDamage> I already eat sufficient junk, thanks
2020-01-26T01:20:55 < Steffanx> Hah
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2020-01-26T01:29:24 < Ultrasauce> participation stroopwafel
2020-01-26T01:30:07 < BrainDamage> participle waffling
2020-01-26T01:33:21 < englishman> https://gisanddata.maps.arcgis.com/apps/opsdashboard/index.html#/bda7594740fd40299423467b48e9ecf6
2020-01-26T01:36:55 < BrainDamage> aw, english has no equivalent
2020-01-26T01:37:11 < BrainDamage> but here there was a term for people who were believed that intentionally spread plague
2020-01-26T01:37:53 < BrainDamage> they were called "untori" or "oilers", because they tought they were using evil oils extracted out of frogs to hex people
2020-01-26T01:38:17 < BrainDamage> steffie in his unique position could be a genuine plague spreader, sending stroop across the world
2020-01-26T01:39:20 < englishman> can confirm, have diabetes due to the stroop
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2020-01-26T02:21:19 < Steffanx> Haha
2020-01-26T02:49:20 -!- kakibob [b05d598d@176.93.89.141] has joined ##stm32
2020-01-26T02:49:39 < kakibob> whatcha cookin?
2020-01-26T02:54:19 < Steffanx> Meth
2020-01-26T03:05:10 < kakibob> right on
2020-01-26T03:09:02 < Laurenceb> in the UK it is illegal to have corona virus without a loicense
2020-01-26T03:09:09 < Laurenceb> problem solved
2020-01-26T03:12:04 -!- Mangy_Dog [~Mangy_Dog@unaffiliated/mangy-dog/x-3069595] has quit [Ping timeout: 268 seconds]
2020-01-26T03:22:00 < kakibob> china > restricts corona virus by closing off cities
2020-01-26T03:22:31 < kakibob> uk > restrics corona virus with red tape
2020-01-26T03:27:46 < Steffanx> Music for kakibob  https://youtu.be/8TPN0x9NPuM
2020-01-26T03:29:30 < emeb_mac> lol
2020-01-26T03:30:00 < kakibob> steff is russian though
2020-01-26T03:30:09 < kakibob> do you know how I know?
2020-01-26T03:31:03 < Steffanx> Tell me kakibob  
2020-01-26T03:31:59 < Steffanx> Can you dance like that guy in the middle at the start of the clip kakibob  ?
2020-01-26T03:33:32 < kakibob> keep cookin and we will find out
2020-01-26T03:42:35 < Steffanx> I only know them because of this kakibob  : https://youtu.be/QBSELrm2-g0
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2020-01-26T04:37:45 < englishman> https://github.com/Ferdi265/preprocessor_brainfuck
2020-01-26T04:43:05 < machinehum> brainfuck eh
2020-01-26T04:50:00 < kakibob> I'm worried englishman
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2020-01-26T05:24:04 < antto> don't worry be kaki now
2020-01-26T05:27:54 < Cracki> TIL: english speakers have no own word for Bandsalat
2020-01-26T05:31:54 < antto> for ba-wat-salad?
2020-01-26T05:34:53 < Cracki> tape salad
2020-01-26T05:35:51 < Cracki> wpde has its own article, wpen has one paragraph on the situation, with Bandsalat being mentioned before tape salad
2020-01-26T05:46:09 < Cracki> any advice for a control problem? task is to wind up paper onto a spool. paper comes in mostly but every cycle has to be fed out a bit. I have the position of a tensioning arm and I have tacho from the winding motor, but no quadrature (i.e. no position, only speed). what can I feasibly use  the tacho signal for?
2020-01-26T05:47:01 < Cracki> (oh, I will also have motor current)
2020-01-26T05:47:58 < Cracki> if I had quadrature, I could do tensioning arm position <- winder speed <- acceleration (motor current) <- voltage PWM
2020-01-26T05:48:31 < Cracki> but that requires signed winder speed/position, does it not?
2020-01-26T05:49:54 < Cracki> afaik best I can do is limit speed (exceed -> lower PWM duty cycle) and detect stalls
2020-01-26T05:52:24 < Cracki> current solution is drive voltage := (arm target - arm actual) * K with some ad hoc limits on change of drive voltage
2020-01-26T05:53:23 < Cracki> that causes the working point to move. standstill: arm at target. moving at nominal speed: arm rather far off from target, and not doing its tensioning duty that well
2020-01-26T05:53:58 < Cracki> the least I can do is add an integral component to remove the arm position error
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2020-01-26T05:56:51 < Cracki> I figure if I wanted to add a sign to the tacho signal, I'd have to do some kind of gating, where only when tacho near zero (ambiguous) I copy sign over from drive voltage, otherwise stick to what's set
2020-01-26T05:59:18 < Cracki> thinking is that sign of tacho *follows* sign of drive current (hence voltage), i.e. lags behind, so when I need to reevaluate tacho sign (tacho near zero), drive current sign is certain
2020-01-26T05:59:55 < Cracki> I'm trying to come up with a state where that fails
2020-01-26T06:02:11 < Cracki> I should watch current but I don't have sign of current, and I see how using drive voltage will fail
2020-01-26T06:05:12 < Cracki> motor spinning fwd, command is to brake for v=0, drive voltage negative, v approaches 0 from positive, enters the zone, it suddenly flips negative, causing positive drive voltage to steer towards v=0, but actual speed is still positive, keeping motor spinning at around the threshold
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2020-01-26T06:09:53 < kakibob> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3eRBFkxgG7g
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2020-01-26T06:15:56 < Cracki> >romantic https://youtu.be/IovEyB2EYoM?t=418
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2020-01-26T06:56:36 < Laurenceb> why are people horny for greta thurnberg its honestly awful
2020-01-26T06:57:01 < Laurenceb> >>1266447>autistic>ecofash>authoritative personality type (dom)>petite body 
2020-01-26T06:57:03 < Laurenceb> keeek
2020-01-26T06:57:51 < Cracki> degenerates
2020-01-26T06:58:15 < Cracki> show them the light of eugenics
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2020-01-26T11:22:34 < PaulFertser> "The battery came packaged in a fully functional toy police car with instructions to take apart the car to get the battery. ... No doubt this is to get around shipping restrictions for LiPo batteries."
2020-01-26T11:27:53 < Steffanx> Uh?
2020-01-26T11:28:41 < PaulFertser> https://hackaday.io/project/19356/log/52089-laugh-out-loud-shipping-ingenuity
2020-01-26T11:33:16 < Steffanx> Lol
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2020-01-26T11:55:45 < qyx> lol
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2020-01-26T15:28:11 < catphish> amazing
2020-01-26T15:28:41 < Steffanx> Yes you are.
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2020-01-26T16:49:58 < bitmask> hmm, do I spend $12 more for a new 4 awg cable with lugs attached or do I spend like $20 on a lug crimping tool and modify the one I have now thats too long
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2020-01-26T16:55:36 < doomba> we need gig economy slavery for tool rental
2020-01-26T16:55:45 < doomba> someone build a webshit
2020-01-26T16:56:25 < doomba> so many times i need a tool that costs over $50 to do just one thing and one thing only... and never again.
2020-01-26T16:57:21 < bitmask> yup
2020-01-26T16:57:32 < bitmask> I should join a hackerspace
2020-01-26T16:57:57 < specing> bitmask: I tried joining a hackerspace
2020-01-26T16:58:05 < specing> turned out that I had more tools than them, so I didn't
2020-01-26T16:58:35 < bitmask> im sure they are all different, I would think
2020-01-26T16:58:41 < bitmask> gotta get lucky
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2020-01-26T17:01:37 < specing> just buy the crimper
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2020-01-26T17:02:01 < specing> 4 AWG is how much in mm^2?
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2020-01-26T17:02:33 < bitmask> not sure exactly with this company, its supposed to be less than 25mm^2, but according to the diameter on the website its 32
2020-01-26T17:02:46 < bitmask> I was gonna see if 2 awg fit
2020-01-26T17:02:57 < bitmask> cause the 4 awg leaves more room than Id like
2020-01-26T17:04:04 < doomba> the one by me is more of an arts and crafts kind of hackerspace
2020-01-26T17:04:37 < doomba> plus i once went to a restaurant very close to the hackerspace on my bday
2020-01-26T17:04:48 < doomba> and the people from the space were at the table next to us
2020-01-26T17:04:51 < bitmask> I saw a website of one thats about 40 minutes from me with a laser cutter, drill press, and other stuff, but i dunno
2020-01-26T17:04:58 < doomba> and i was like "nope. never going there."
2020-01-26T17:05:26 < bitmask> I was looking for a laser cutter at the time
2020-01-26T17:05:30 < bitmask> that was the only time I looked
2020-01-26T17:07:00 < Steffanx> specing: you had Ada, then didnt?
2020-01-26T17:07:17 < specing> Steffanx: hmm?
2020-01-26T17:07:47 < Steffanx> Tools. you had more then the hackerspace?
2020-01-26T17:08:38 < specing> yes
2020-01-26T17:09:38 < antto> all u need is a hammer, a rubber duck, and a pocket bible
2020-01-26T17:09:56 < Steffanx> No, Ada.
2020-01-26T17:13:30 < qyx> whats ada
2020-01-26T17:13:37 < qyx> is it like arduino?
2020-01-26T17:18:11 < BrainDamage> sooner or later, Ada will turn out to be some sort of wage slave rather than the programming language
2020-01-26T17:18:23 < BrainDamage> that's why you can just trust Ada to do it right
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2020-01-26T17:36:43 < qyx> a 2018 article http://www.circuitstoday.com/interfacing-pir-sensor-to-8051
2020-01-26T17:36:51 < qyx> what did I read
2020-01-26T17:38:01 < Steffanx> did you read it?
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2020-01-26T18:07:54 < Steffanx> dont forget 2018 feels like a life time ago qyx. At least it does to me.
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2020-01-26T18:51:44 < englishman> ah yes the plot of the 1992 movie 'sneakers' where they hack a PIR sensor interfaced with an 8051
2020-01-26T18:52:21 < englishman> https://twitter.com/andipalmur/status/1221233019861839875
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2020-01-26T19:06:05 < aandrew> I love how they take an 8051 and wirte software to turn on an LED when the sensor detects something
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2020-01-26T19:06:27 < aandrew> I get its' a starter project but man just take the shit on pin 21 and connect it ot the shit on pin 15 and be done
2020-01-26T19:07:26 < aandrew> I see they go on to do a char LCD after
2020-01-26T19:11:44 < Laurenceb> https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2020/jan/26/laurence-fox-actor-fantasy-film-gor-stewart-lee
2020-01-26T19:11:47 < Laurenceb> seeeeething
2020-01-26T19:12:45 < aandrew> and warning women under 35 of all races that he would withhold the bounty of his coveted white penis from their hungry vaginas unless they held their disagreeable tongues, even if they got on their knees and begged.
2020-01-26T19:12:49 < aandrew> you've been busy, Laurenceb 
2020-01-26T19:12:57 < Laurenceb> ikr
2020-01-26T19:13:26 < Laurenceb> I think Stewart Lee got triggered
2020-01-26T19:13:50 < aandrew> I love it
2020-01-26T19:13:53 < aandrew> mixed race? you can't be racist
2020-01-26T19:13:57 < aandrew> fucking kek
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2020-01-26T20:03:21 < jadew> dongs, are you aware of a stencil tool like the one you have, but smaller?
2020-01-26T20:08:24 -!- irf21k [~irf21k@49.206.7.42] has joined ##stm32
2020-01-26T20:19:06 < Steffanx> Didnt mr d design his own?
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2020-01-26T20:20:12 < englishman> yeah, he's looking for one
2020-01-26T20:20:14 < englishman> like everyone
2020-01-26T20:20:20 < englishman> but they don't exist
2020-01-26T20:20:48 < Steffanx> And he refuses to make it open sores rigght?
2020-01-26T20:20:57 < englishman> y
2020-01-26T20:21:17 < englishman> I'm going to train lil'dongs to jump through a hoop btw
2020-01-26T20:22:37 < Steffanx> heh, does he even listen to anything?
2020-01-26T20:22:49 < englishman> he listens to cookies
2020-01-26T20:22:58 < Steffanx> Our cat listens better to "chicken" than to her name.
2020-01-26T20:23:07 < Steffanx> chicken in dutch that is
2020-01-26T20:23:50 < englishman> he has already learned to jump straight up
2020-01-26T20:23:54 < englishman> to get a cookie
2020-01-26T20:24:04 < englishman> so the hoop is next
2020-01-26T20:24:15 -!- irf21k [~irf21k@49.206.7.42] has joined ##stm32
2020-01-26T20:24:26 < englishman> time for some intense cookie training
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2020-01-26T20:32:49 < Steffanx> :)
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2020-01-26T21:47:40 < qyx> re: pir, there is an appnote from st
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2020-01-26T22:02:49 < Laurenceb> libtards dont know about Trumps 9dimensional hungry hungry hippos
2020-01-26T22:06:25 < Laurenceb> dont let his soiled underpants confuse you, pedodexter is actually the brains of the trump presidency!
2020-01-26T22:07:48 < zyp> Steffanx, just watched season 2 of that Laurenceb tv series, still funny
2020-01-26T22:08:16 < Steffanx> It was kinda different from season 1. It wasnt too bad indeed.
2020-01-26T22:08:58 < zyp> by the way, how do you say chicken in dutch?
2020-01-26T22:09:13 < Steffanx> Kip.
2020-01-26T22:09:25 < zyp> huh
2020-01-26T22:09:43 < Steffanx> huh? 
2020-01-26T22:10:13 < zyp> for once a dutch word that doesn't sound like the norwegian version
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2020-01-26T22:10:42 < Steffanx> heh.
2020-01-26T22:10:58 < Steffanx> Yeah, sounds pretty different ( if google translate does a good job at pronouncing it at least)
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2020-01-26T22:18:26 < qyx> and zyps chicken is..?
2020-01-26T22:18:57 < zyp> «kylling»
2020-01-26T22:28:44 < Cracki> oh no, yet another starlink launch 14:50 utc or something like that
2020-01-26T22:29:03 < Cracki> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1KmBDCiL7MU
2020-01-26T22:29:12 < Cracki> (17 hours away)
2020-01-26T22:29:23 < kakipro> how would you implement isolated thermocouple sensing?
2020-01-26T22:29:40 < kakipro> just isolator and isolated dc-converter?
2020-01-26T22:30:47 < kakipro> it's MAX31855
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2020-01-26T22:34:59 < englishman> lora
2020-01-26T22:37:40 < zyp> kakipro, sure
2020-01-26T22:44:14 < Laurenceb> >isolated therocouple
2020-01-26T22:44:23 < Laurenceb> sound tricky, but I bet someone has done it
2020-01-26T22:45:39 < qyx> why, there are adcs with analog frontend for thermocouples
2020-01-26T22:45:46 < qyx> with spi or whatever
2020-01-26T22:45:54 < Steffanx> kakipro probably just meant between the mcu and the MAX31855
2020-01-26T22:45:58 < Steffanx> which is SPI.
2020-01-26T22:46:01 < qyx> isolator + isolatedndc/dc as kakipro and zyp says
2020-01-26T22:46:23 < Steffanx> Did kakipro get a max31855 clone for the alie?
2020-01-26T22:46:43 < kakipro> idjk
2020-01-26T22:46:46 < Steffanx> Those are incl. the thermocouple cheaper than the entire ic itself (or at least used to)
2020-01-26T22:47:07 < Steffanx> if you dont know, then who does, kakipro?
2020-01-26T22:55:38 < kakipro> nb
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2020-01-26T23:23:45 < bitmask> would there be any problem wrapping the transformer secondary wires around the outside of the transformer? the cable is too long so I want to circle around to have the leads on the opposite side 
2020-01-26T23:25:40 < bitmask> https://i.imgur.com/zpFyVSJ.png
2020-01-26T23:25:42 < bitmask> kinda like that
2020-01-26T23:36:16 < Ultrasauce> draw the cross section of the core with the direction of the flux lines
2020-01-26T23:36:53 < Ultrasauce> youll see that this is equivalent to half a turn, backwards
2020-01-26T23:36:57 < Ultrasauce> probably not what you want
2020-01-26T23:37:15 < bitmask> oh, damn
2020-01-26T23:38:12 < Ultrasauce> just loop em the other way around
2020-01-26T23:40:27 < bitmask> wouldn't that still affect it?
2020-01-26T23:41:17 < Ultrasauce> yes, consistent with the other turns
2020-01-26T23:42:44 < bitmask> I think I should just order another shorter cable
2020-01-26T23:48:10 < bitmask> the question is then do I stick with 4awg or can I fit 2 awg in there
2020-01-26T23:49:02 < Ultrasauce> without doing any math and just eyeballing it, i suspect youre going to be limited by saturation long before resistance rears its head
--- Day changed Mon Jan 27 2020
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2020-01-27T02:49:24 < Cracki> where to buy bat soup?
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2020-01-27T03:04:21 < Laurenceb> the bat soup meme just keeps on giving
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2020-01-27T03:19:42 < Cracki> I'm gonna buy some corona beer and some bat-shaped gummies for my peeps and see who has a sense of humor and a healthy sense of self-preservation
2020-01-27T03:21:08 < Cracki> the chinese cook the whole bat, including stomach and bowel contents
2020-01-27T03:23:09 < Cracki> I think the wuhan bioweapons facility put the shit out there onto bats and then the bats got eaten
2020-01-27T03:23:18 < Cracki> legit umbrella corp logo right there: https://pbs.twimg.com/media/EO7_yJJWAAAMXv0.jpg:orig
2020-01-27T03:24:48 < kakipro> Steffanx: it's chinesium
2020-01-27T03:24:55 < kakipro> also the board has vanished
2020-01-27T03:25:05 < kakipro> so ffffuuu
2020-01-27T03:25:07 < Cracki> (that picture is from shanghai)
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2020-01-27T03:49:42 < Laurenceb> https://ichef.bbci.co.uk/news/624/cpsprodpb/07F3/production/_110653020_nk-family-tree_640-nc.png
2020-01-27T03:49:50 < Laurenceb> le Kim Jong-nam face
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2020-01-27T03:54:39 < Laurenceb> keek the graphics
2020-01-27T03:54:40 < Laurenceb> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w0cy_4FmvJY&feature=youtu.be
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2020-01-27T04:12:26 < doomba> Cracki: nah it was mexicans
2020-01-27T04:12:36 < doomba> probably the same ones who made my stm32g0's
2020-01-27T04:12:50 < Cracki> and my a4955
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2020-01-27T04:13:44 < doomba> make an umbrella corp cake and serve it with corona
2020-01-27T04:14:23 < doomba> and if anyone says anything be like, "shutup! we killed kobe so you'd not talk about that!"
2020-01-27T04:14:47 < Cracki> tbh I never played any RE
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2020-01-27T04:16:35 < Cracki> wait wtf does a basketball american have to do with RE?
2020-01-27T04:18:38 < doomba> it's how merimutt news media / hollywood works
2020-01-27T04:19:21 < doomba> any time there's too much semi-important issues happening at once, they merc a celeb to "re-focus" the public.
2020-01-27T04:20:24 < Cracki> ah, died yesterday ic
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2020-01-27T04:45:44 < Thorn> https://twitter.com/azonenberg/status/1221221756318306305
2020-01-27T04:47:43 < Thorn> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nDgC8JOQhiM
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2020-01-27T04:50:21 < Thorn> how does it know when the safe is open
2020-01-27T04:51:29 < englishman> lol @ that guy
2020-01-27T04:53:40 < Thorn> which guy
2020-01-27T04:56:02 < englishman> astonerberg
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2020-01-27T04:57:55 < specing> 10 Gbps/s sounds slow for azonenberg
2020-01-27T04:58:34 < Cracki> wats the goal, watching processors think?
2020-01-27T05:01:49 < specing> no idea, it is too slow for probing azonenberg's gear
2020-01-27T05:02:53 < Cracki> Thorn, sounds like the wheel locks and it's sensing that
2020-01-27T05:03:29 < Cracki> that or some sound sensor
2020-01-27T05:05:23 < Cracki> sounds like a servo would run smoother and quicker
2020-01-27T05:05:33 < Cracki> of course needs tuning so it doesn't overshoot :P
2020-01-27T05:07:12 < Cracki> comments say those locks are such that when it unlocks, dialing past 0 makes you run into a bolt that locks the dial
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2020-01-27T05:27:15 < fenugrec> interesting, I have a BAV99 diode that failed in a "high leakage" mode (> 100uA @ 20V). haven't seen that often
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2020-01-27T06:04:45 < jadew> man... chinese sellers sure know how to appear sketchy
2020-01-27T06:05:06 < jadew> I'm talking to this guy and I let him know that $140 is too much for DHL shipping
2020-01-27T06:05:20 < jadew> he says he can't lower the price on the components (100 qty)
2020-01-27T06:05:34 < jadew> then he asks what I would expect the DHL shipping price to be
2020-01-27T06:05:38 < jadew> and I say $50
2020-01-27T06:05:57 < jadew> and then he's like... ok, you buy and then I change price to $50
2020-01-27T06:06:23 < jadew> really? so you just checked how much shipping costs and it just happens to be $50
2020-01-27T06:06:25 < jadew> ?
2020-01-27T06:06:52 < Cracki> sketchy.
2020-01-27T06:07:10 < Cracki> maybe he didn't understand that you complain about the shipping cost
2020-01-27T06:07:16 < Cracki> maybe he thought you wanted to haggle
2020-01-27T06:07:35 < jadew> I wanted to haggle, but I expect to pay correct shipping
2020-01-27T06:07:37 < Cracki> and you just discovered that he makes at least 70 bucks of profit off this, because that's how much he's willing to eat
2020-01-27T06:07:45 < Cracki> wait, 90 even
2020-01-27T06:07:49 < jadew> yeah
2020-01-27T06:08:37 < Cracki> you pay european price
2020-01-27T06:09:04 < Cracki> there is no relation to what it costs them
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2020-01-27T07:24:26 < dongs> how can you be talking to anyone in china
2020-01-27T07:24:30 < dongs> they're either dead or on holidays
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2020-01-27T07:36:44 < aandrew> dongs: how's shit in japland with the kong flu so close
2020-01-27T07:39:23 < jadew> dongs, this guy was available
2020-01-27T07:45:23 < dongs> aandrew: no idea, i heard like 6k chinks escaped to tokyo by taking some temperature reducing drugs
2020-01-27T07:45:30 < dongs> good thing im nowwhere near tokyo
2020-01-27T08:01:37 < jadew> is this flu that bad?
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2020-01-27T08:09:40 < jadew> 15% death rate... jeez
2020-01-27T08:19:43 < jadew> 15+ million people are quarantined
2020-01-27T08:19:50 < jadew> wtf?
2020-01-27T08:19:53 < jadew> how bad is this shit?
2020-01-27T08:19:56 < jadew> are we going to die?
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2020-01-27T09:02:38 < PaulFertser> jadew: it's not even a flu...
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2020-01-27T09:15:11 < PaulFertser> jadew: btw, are you comparing to the previous epidemic: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/SARS#History ?
2020-01-27T09:15:31 < jly> good morning china disease hysteria mongers
2020-01-27T09:15:51 < jly> now that its in ausfalia
2020-01-27T09:16:02 < PaulFertser> It was a coronavirus too back then.
2020-01-27T09:16:07 < jly> oh yeah
2020-01-27T09:16:10 < jly> hi paul
2020-01-27T09:16:22 < PaulFertser> Hey jly. How are the fires?
2020-01-27T09:16:34 < jly> it's warm
2020-01-27T09:16:46 < jly> i seem to have come down with sunburn today
2020-01-27T09:16:47 < PaulFertser> Still burning?
2020-01-27T09:17:00 < jly> my answer is actually true
2020-01-27T09:17:07 < jly> funny timing
2020-01-27T09:17:18 < jly> i have a radiation burn on my left arm
2020-01-27T09:17:59 < jly> it was very overcast in victoria today
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2020-01-27T10:08:34 < Steffanx> Radioactive jly :o
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2020-01-27T11:01:58 < dongs> why teh fuck are NRF command line tools a fucking .exe isntaller
2020-01-27T11:02:03 < dongs> and fills system with useless trash???
2020-01-27T11:02:06 < dongs> god damn
2020-01-27T11:02:28 < dongs> Update bundled Segger installers and tar balls to v6.60e. ????????????????????????????????
2020-01-27T11:02:31 < dongs> hello?
2020-01-27T11:02:41 < dongs> why the fuck are you distributing this shit with >nrf command line tools<
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2020-01-27T11:02:48 < dongs> if I want latest segger shit Im gonna download it myself
2020-01-27T11:11:33 < Thorn> because nordick DKs come with onboard jlink
2020-01-27T11:13:29 < dongs> and?
2020-01-27T11:13:33 < dongs> why is it an installer
2020-01-27T11:13:35 < dongs> for "command line tools"
2020-01-27T11:14:21 < srk> cause your OS sucks and doesn't have a package manager
2020-01-27T11:15:15 < dongs> > package manager
2020-01-27T11:15:17 < dongs> lmaoooooooooooooo
2020-01-27T11:15:26 < dongs> you stupuid fucking nigger, windows is so great it doesnt fuckign nEED a fucking package manager
2020-01-27T11:16:20 < srk> right xD
2020-01-27T11:16:52 < dongs> 60 meg installer for 2.5megs of actual nrf-commandline-tools
2020-01-27T11:17:02 < dongs> which I copied out and uninstalled
2020-01-27T11:17:03 < dongs> nice.
2020-01-27T11:17:36 < doomba> the rest were telemetry dlls that are vital. don't delete them.
2020-01-27T11:17:38 < srk> rest is spyware spying on your designs
2020-01-27T11:18:28 < doomba> all those damn lunix users and their refusal to participate in the surveillance capitalist system. they are bringing the world down.
2020-01-27T11:23:30 < Thorn> attn dongs https://twitter.com/cmuratori/status/1221683753145122816  https://twitter.com/cmuratori/status/1221686120364171264
2020-01-27T11:31:50 < dongs> retards gonna retard
2020-01-27T11:32:20 < dongs> does he happen to be an avid lunix user?
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2020-01-27T13:31:59 < jadew> any idea what the "Residential address" checkbox when shipping with DHL does?
2020-01-27T13:32:03 < jadew> other than adding cost?
2020-01-27T13:33:44 < kakibob> jadew: have you heard of country of Transnistria?
2020-01-27T13:33:51 < jadew> yeah
2020-01-27T13:43:12 < karlp> my wife's even been
2020-01-27T13:44:08 < kakibob> when you look north - west it's all pretty simple
2020-01-27T13:45:15 < kakibob> when you look south - east there is countries inside countries
2020-01-27T13:47:43 < Steffanx> So did you like the Russian village boys music?
2020-01-27T13:47:48 < kakibob> no
2020-01-27T13:47:58 < Steffanx> Damn why not.
2020-01-27T13:48:04 < Steffanx> Such happy music
2020-01-27T14:11:00 < Thorn> first case of coronavirus in Ukraine
2020-01-27T14:11:12 < Thorn> conirmed
2020-01-27T14:13:43 < PaulFertser> 3 cases in France two days ago: http://www.euro.who.int/en/health-topics/emergencies/pages/news/news/2020/01/2019-ncov-outbreak-first-cases-confirmed-in-europe
2020-01-27T14:16:48 < PaulFertser> "Preliminary evidence suggests that the elderly are more vulnerable while children are more resilient than was the case for SARS"
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2020-01-27T14:22:41 < englishman> happy 100 year anniversary of the spanish flu everyone
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2020-01-27T14:40:49 < Steffanx> Dont be such party pooper kakibob  
2020-01-27T14:51:51 < Thorn> T - 120 min https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1KmBDCiL7MU
2020-01-27T14:52:10 < Thorn> weather was only 50% though
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2020-01-27T15:43:05 < dongs> live in 67 minutes
2020-01-27T15:43:06 < dongs> did i miss it
2020-01-27T15:43:09 < dongs> oh another stardink?
2020-01-27T15:55:28 < Thorn> who the fuck is Kobe
2020-01-27T15:55:35 < dongs> some nigger
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2020-01-27T16:08:16 < Mangy_Dog> ...
2020-01-27T16:08:23 < Mangy_Dog> fucking dont use language like that
2020-01-27T16:09:45 < benishor> some japanese named nigger?
2020-01-27T16:10:25 < PaulFertser> Niggers can call each other niggers even in the USA, right?
2020-01-27T16:12:08 < benishor> I have no clue. the US of A is the land of fems and SJW so I reckon nothing gets approved
2020-01-27T16:16:29 < thardin> stay on topic
2020-01-27T16:17:20 < benishor> what is the topic? niggers?
2020-01-27T16:17:32 < jpa-> mostly yeah
2020-01-27T16:17:33 < thardin> jeezus
2020-01-27T16:18:05 < thardin> edgy teens begone
2020-01-27T16:18:06 < Steffanx> Where?
2020-01-27T16:18:18 < benishor> contrary to popular belief, jesus was not that white too
2020-01-27T16:19:57 < Thorn> >Standing down today due to strong upper level winds. Next launch opportunity is tomorrow at 9:28 a.m. EST, or 14:28 UTC.
2020-01-27T16:22:30 < Steffanx> Jesus is real benishor  ?
2020-01-27T16:22:50 < thardin> Mangy_Dog: situations like these is what the kill file was invented for
2020-01-27T16:26:05 < benishor> Steffanx: are you asking jesus whether I'm real? or the other way around?
2020-01-27T16:35:58 < Steffanx> Both.
2020-01-27T16:40:50 < qyx> wat
2020-01-27T16:41:09 < qyx> where is staelimk
2020-01-27T16:41:15 < qyx> starlink
2020-01-27T16:42:32 < qyx> oh
2020-01-27T16:45:37 < dongs> delayed
2020-01-27T16:45:40 < dongs> 24h
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2020-01-27T18:12:36 < benishor> Steffanx: that reminds me of a joke. "God is dead -- Nietzsche. Then, on his grave stone it was written: Nietzsche is dead -- GOD"
2020-01-27T18:14:52 < benishor> as for the rest of the questions, I'd have to shamelessly plug this here https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VVro5wxqh4U
2020-01-27T18:21:22 < Thorn> apparently Sri Lanka customs doesn't allow any packages from China due to the virus
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2020-01-27T18:36:11 < specing> lol
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2020-01-27T18:50:52 < karlp> nice.  have a ch341x ttl dongle that seems to not be cable of sending on the tx line anymore.
2020-01-27T18:51:02 < karlp> no apparent change, just no longer sends.
2020-01-27T18:51:08 < karlp> what a wonderful failure more
2020-01-27T18:51:37 < dongs> my pal claims he flashed 30 devices (stm32) few weeks ago and today one of htem erased its flash entirely
2020-01-27T18:52:18 < Steffanx> Gd32?
2020-01-27T18:52:24 < dongs> no, real stm
2020-01-27T18:52:32 < dongs> f042 or mabe 103 i dont know
2020-01-27T18:55:15 < qyx_> radiation from the leaded solder?
2020-01-27T18:56:49 < srk> corona virus
2020-01-27T18:56:51 < jpa-> going below the minimum flashing VDD is the easiest way to cause that
2020-01-27T18:58:08 < srk> sounds like atmega
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2020-01-27T19:00:32 < karlp> what does "erased it's flash entirely" mean? no more "rom" bootloader?
2020-01-27T19:04:12 < Thorn> https://www.nature.com/articles/d41586-019-03784-x. >‘manels’ and ‘manferences’ 
2020-01-27T19:04:27 < dongs> karlp: no more anythign in flash
2020-01-27T19:04:31 < dongs> of course bl is still there
2020-01-27T19:04:48 < karlp> oh, he flashed it a week ago, nvm, reading fail here.
2020-01-27T19:05:04 < dongs> aye
2020-01-27T19:06:08 < Steffanx> He forgot to flash it.
2020-01-27T19:06:22 < karlp> yeah, sounds like missed one on the row while flashing a series :)
2020-01-27T19:06:28 < dongs> nope
2020-01-27T19:06:29 < dongs> it worked
2020-01-27T19:06:57 < dongs> hmm what the fuck happened to my dumb blog
2020-01-27T19:07:25 < dongs> oh there it is
2020-01-27T19:14:58 -!- m4ssi [~massi@host31-39-static.242-95-b.business.telecomitalia.it] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
2020-01-27T19:18:19 < specing> stm32 people, I have an ADC riddle/lack of understanding
2020-01-27T19:18:33 < englishman> end of the world imminent; women and minorities affected most
2020-01-27T19:18:41 < Steffanx> You miss typed Ada, specing
2020-01-27T19:18:51 < specing> AN2834 says that the ADC should transition from 0 to 1 at about 0.5LSB, right?
2020-01-27T19:19:16 < specing> AN2834 also says that the ADC should transition from max-1 to max at about U_vcc - 0.5LSB, right?
2020-01-27T19:19:23 < specing> an ideal ADC, that is
2020-01-27T19:20:39 < specing> Now, suppose we have an ideal 2-bit ADC and 8V U_vcc. 1 LSB = U_vcc/2^2 = 2V. It should transition from 0 to 1 at 1V and from 2 to 3 at 7V
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2020-01-27T19:21:20 < specing> ideally, its measurement range should be uniformly spaced from 0V to 8V, right?
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2020-01-27T19:22:02 < specing> so, it should switch from 1 to 2 at 1.5LSB = 3V and from 2to3 at 3.5LSB = 5V
2020-01-27T19:22:21 < specing> now 3 is from 5V to 8V
2020-01-27T19:22:23 < specing> ????
2020-01-27T19:22:37 < specing> sorry, 2to3 at 2.5LSB = 5V.
2020-01-27T19:23:15 < specing> or is 2 from 3V to 7V?
2020-01-27T19:23:39 < specing> I think I'll have to compute the capacitor ladder equations to solve this riddle
2020-01-27T19:23:48 < specing> for a SAR ADC, that is.
2020-01-27T19:23:51 < englishman> draw a picture
2020-01-27T19:23:54 < specing> I did
2020-01-27T19:24:05 < specing> its got 5 steps for a 4 step ADC
2020-01-27T19:25:51 < karlp> 0..2, 2..4, 4..6, 6..8 ? what's the issue?
2020-01-27T19:25:59 < karlp> what am I missing?
2020-01-27T19:26:04 < jpa-> karlp: 0.5 LSB part
2020-01-27T19:26:09 < englishman> yeah
2020-01-27T19:27:33 < englishman> the pitfalls of using 2 bit adcs
2020-01-27T19:27:53 < jpa-> i also think AN2834 is a bit confusing
2020-01-27T19:28:28  * specing draws picturo for 3 bit adc
2020-01-27T19:29:42 < jpa-> "For the STM32 ADC, the smallest detectable incremental change in voltage is expressed in terms of LSBs: 1 LSB = Vref/4096"    so does the ADC output max out already at Vref - 1.5 * Vref/4096?
2020-01-27T19:29:45 < englishman> sounds ok to me that the highest value covers 1.5lsb of voltages as the lowest value only covers 0.5 lsb
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2020-01-27T19:30:58 < karlp> so 0: 0..1V, 1: 1..3, 2: 3..5: 3:5..8?
2020-01-27T19:30:59 < jpa-> so for 1-bit ADC, that would be 0..0.5 and 0.5..2.0? but based on AN2834, a 1-bit ADC would be just comparator against Vref/2
2020-01-27T19:31:08 < specing> englishman: but AN2834 explicitly says, on page 12, that it goes to max 0.5 LSB from the top
2020-01-27T19:31:46 < jpa-> specing: page 12 shows last transition at 4094.5, which *is* 1.5 LSB from the top (4096)
2020-01-27T19:32:31 < englishman> 4095 is 0xfff tho
2020-01-27T19:35:24 < jpa-> i guess this is similar to whether your screen pixels are points at (0,0), points at (0.5,0.5) or squares (0,0)-(1,1)
2020-01-27T19:35:48 < englishman> on a 2 bit adc, quantization error is expected
2020-01-27T19:37:14 < specing> on a 3-bit adc this "problem" dissapears
2020-01-27T19:37:18 < jpa-> i'm mostly bothered that the schematic doesn't match the 1.5 LSB interpretation
2020-01-27T19:39:04 < specing> actually no, it does not
2020-01-27T19:39:06 < specing> hmm
2020-01-27T19:41:42 < aandrew> 5 more days I'm back in ontario
2020-01-27T19:41:50 < aandrew> BC is beautiful, vancouver is not so much
2020-01-27T19:41:55 < aandrew> and it just fucking rains all the fucking time here
2020-01-27T19:42:22 < specing> What if 1 LSB is not U_vcc / 2**n but U_vcc / (2**n - 1)?
2020-01-27T19:42:26 < aandrew> I did get up to Langdale and visited an IRC friend, that was nice
2020-01-27T19:42:28  * specing calculates
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2020-01-27T19:55:21 < englishman> haha Vancouver
2020-01-27T19:57:14 < Laurenceb> Dr Adam Rutherford btfo'd the wacists
2020-01-27T19:57:38 < Laurenceb> Black guys win at 100m because 100m is a social construct
2020-01-27T19:58:25 < jpa-> having the last step be 1.5 LSB seems quite ok otherwise, except i don't really see how it is achieved in the hardware
2020-01-27T19:59:17 < jpa-> maybe it's just in the way the capacitors are trimmed
2020-01-27T20:06:34 < Thorn> what phenomena that are not explained by classical electrodynamics are observed in electronics? (1) quantum noise in fiber optics, ...?
2020-01-27T20:08:59 < englishman> why people still buy msp430
2020-01-27T20:09:59 < jpa-> Thorn: on macro level or inside microchips?
2020-01-27T20:10:28 < Thorn> anything really that affects operation
2020-01-27T20:10:44 < Thorn> I guess the whole semiconductor theory is non-classical lol
2020-01-27T20:15:15 < specing> I have a solution
2020-01-27T20:15:19 < specing> If you define 1 LSB = U_vcc (2**n - 1), then it all fits
2020-01-27T20:15:20 < specing> and the first transition is 0.5 LSB and the last -0.5LSB
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2020-01-27T20:16:48 < jpa-> specing: but, does it match the hardware?
2020-01-27T20:17:06 < specing> jpa-: Not sure yet
2020-01-27T20:17:16 < jpa-> specing: equally well you could have 1 LSB = Vref/2^n and have transitions at 1, 2, 3, ... n LSB
2020-01-27T20:17:29 < jpa-> but that probably wouldn't match hardware either
2020-01-27T20:19:13 < specing> jpa-: RM0091 does  U_channel = U_vcc/FULL_SCALE * ADC_DATA
2020-01-27T20:19:24 < specing> guess what FULL_SCALE is ;P   (its 2**n - 1)
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2020-01-27T20:22:28 < specing> so that is one source of my adc errors
2020-01-27T20:22:32  * specing looks for more
2020-01-27T20:25:03 < aandrew> what the fuck are you guys doing where you're fretting over a half a LSB?
2020-01-27T20:25:14 < aandrew> that shit would be lost to noise anyway I bet
2020-01-27T20:26:07 < jpa-> aandrew: only have to oversample by 16x and it'll be very much visible
2020-01-27T20:26:59 < aandrew> perhaps yes, that's a fair point
2020-01-27T20:28:08 < specing> aandrew: I'm measuring a 36V li-ion stack over a high-impedance resistor divider and getting 0.6V positive error
2020-01-27T20:28:51 < aandrew> that's significant error. almost 2%
2020-01-27T20:29:01 < specing> yes, 50LSB
2020-01-27T20:29:17 < specing> most of it seems to come from Vref_int measurement
2020-01-27T20:29:43 < specing> and subsequent U_vcc calculation, which is off by 36mV
2020-01-27T20:29:44 < aandrew> do you put the CPU to sleep while measuring?
2020-01-27T20:29:49 < specing> yes
2020-01-27T20:30:06 < aandrew> have you taken the settling time and input impedance of the ADC frontend into account?
2020-01-27T20:30:13 < specing> yes
2020-01-27T20:30:19 < aandrew> what happens if you drive the ADC with a single follower opamp
2020-01-27T20:30:21 < aandrew> any change?
2020-01-27T20:30:31 < jpa-> specing: how long sampletime?
2020-01-27T20:30:49 < jpa-> also, you can try to put a capacitor in parallel with the ADC input
2020-01-27T20:30:56 < specing> the longest at 14MHz
2020-01-27T20:31:03 < specing> the measurement is fine
2020-01-27T20:31:08 < specing> vref_int is the problem
2020-01-27T20:31:16 < aandrew> also, what other channels are you measuring, I had a case years back where the channel before my sensitive one was near one of the rails most of the time and was causing the channel I was concerned about to be off 
2020-01-27T20:31:17 < specing> aandrew: I don't have any of those to try
2020-01-27T20:31:39 < specing> aandrew: vrefint, battery, temp in that order at 1 Hz
2020-01-27T20:32:24 < aandrew> that's pretty slow... just for fun, what happens if you stop switching channels and measure only battery
2020-01-27T20:34:15 < jpa-> which mcu, btw?
2020-01-27T20:34:30 < jpa-> F0?
2020-01-27T20:35:41 < specing> jpa-: f072rb
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2020-01-27T20:37:12 < jpa-> you've done the ADC calibration and waited for 10µs to enable ADC_IN17 buffer?
2020-01-27T20:37:43 < specing> jpa-: yes, calib done
2020-01-27T20:37:57 < jpa-> vref_int is specified to have +-1.6% of error anyway
2020-01-27T20:38:08 < specing> the full round of measurements is being done continuously at 1/3 Hz
2020-01-27T20:38:20 < jpa-> which value are you assuming for vref_int voltage?
2020-01-27T20:38:34 < specing> 3300 mV, as stated in datasheet
2020-01-27T20:38:40 < jpa-> uh, what?
2020-01-27T20:39:25 < jpa-> for me, datasheet says 1.20..1.25 V
2020-01-27T20:39:38 < specing> yes, the calibration value (in memory) is measured at 3v3 V_cc
2020-01-27T20:39:52 < jpa-> ok, so you are calculating from the calibration value
2020-01-27T20:40:10 < specing> I'm weighing my measurements against calibration value
2020-01-27T20:40:19 < specing> U_vcc := Integer(VREFINT_CAL) * 3300 / Integer(Data);
2020-01-27T20:40:41 < jpa-> so if you calculate backwards, what actual voltage do you get for vrefint?
2020-01-27T20:41:44 < specing> I get ADC=1686  at 2.98V Vcc =  2.98/4095 * 1686 = 1.2269 V
2020-01-27T20:41:56 < jpa-> so that's pretty much straight on spec
2020-01-27T20:42:05 < jpa-> what is the calibration value?
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2020-01-27T20:43:08 < specing> 4156=2019.12.13_02:16:06,ADC=1686,VREFINT,faccal=1541,Vcc=3016mV
2020-01-27T20:43:10 < specing> 4157=2019.12.13_02:16:07,ADC=3006,Battery,U_batt=36606mV,chg_pres=0,date=0_1:9:17,time_wai
2020-01-27T20:43:14 < specing> 1541
2020-01-27T20:43:52 < specing> the full code is at https://framagit.org/specing/charger_monitor if you want to look
2020-01-27T20:43:56 < jpa-> so that gives 1.24, which is on the high side but also within spec
2020-01-27T20:44:52 < specing> indeed
2020-01-27T20:44:59 < bvernoux> specing, ADA code ;)
2020-01-27T20:45:08 < jpa-> but yeah, with the calibration it should remain closer
2020-01-27T20:45:14 < specing> bvernoux: :))
2020-01-27T20:45:29 < bvernoux> specing, It is first time I see ADA with any project except in Thales Group ;)
2020-01-27T20:45:35 < jpa-> stm32 factory calibration values have been bonkers before, but stm32f072 errata doesn't show that
2020-01-27T20:45:36 < bvernoux> I was thinking only Thales use it ;)
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2020-01-27T20:47:03 < specing> jpa-: sure, it is in spec, but over a very large temperature range
2020-01-27T20:47:42 < specing> bvernoux: ah, many use it. airbus, arianne, eurocontrol, esa, ...
2020-01-27T20:47:46 < specing> (and me)
2020-01-27T20:48:02 < bvernoux> hehe yes ;)
2020-01-27T20:48:11 < bvernoux> I was using it during few years ;)
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2020-01-27T20:49:13 < specing> bvernoux: was using? Why have you stopped?
2020-01-27T20:49:24 < bvernoux> because I work in an other area now ;)
2020-01-27T20:49:51 < bvernoux> DO178B DAL-A is far now ;)
2020-01-27T20:52:40 < specing> bvernoux: you can still work on your hobbies in Ada
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2020-01-27T20:57:31 < Steffanx> i think he likes to get things done in a reasonable time, not 20 years.
2020-01-27T20:58:42 < specing> bvernoux: join #ada, we're all there
2020-01-27T20:59:12 < Steffanx> Can we see your projects somewhere specing?
2020-01-27T20:59:14 < specing> Steffanx: yes, that is why he uses Ada :P
2020-01-27T20:59:26 < specing> Steffanx: sure, there on framagit is my profile
2020-01-27T21:01:44 < Steffanx> i see
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2020-01-27T21:08:45 < dirty_d> What development tools are you guys using for stm32g4? I haven't messed with this stuff in years, I used to use gcc etc, but it looks like there is no standard peripheral library for the stm32g4?
2020-01-27T21:13:14 < srk> I'm using haskell eDSL which generates C code for it
2020-01-27T21:13:32 < srk> but most ppl would point you to libopencm3
2020-01-27T21:13:56 < dirty_d> Hmm, I checked that out, but G4 was missing
2020-01-27T21:16:09 < srk> lame!
2020-01-27T21:16:43 < srk> it's quite similar to L4
2020-01-27T21:17:05 < srk> except for HRTIMv2
2020-01-27T21:17:24 < srk> and slightly different clock config
2020-01-27T21:17:43 < Steffanx> Then CubeG4 it is.
2020-01-27T21:18:25 < dirty_d> I'm gonna try that
2020-01-27T21:18:37 < srk> pro tools time
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2020-01-27T21:27:31 < aandrew> hm, what do you guys usually charge for quick and dirty little shit?
2020-01-27T21:27:59 < aandrew> attiny read a half dozen regs from spi device, format and spit out a couple dozen bytes via UART
2020-01-27T21:28:04 < aandrew> easy peasy 1-2 day shit
2020-01-27T21:28:21 < jpa-> hourly price * hours, of course
2020-01-27T21:29:15 < aandrew> yeah I think it'd just be T&M, trying to figure out a good "subcontractor" rate
2020-01-27T21:29:25 < aandrew> thinking probably $95/hr subcontractor
2020-01-27T21:29:26 < specing> attiny? is there no spi-uart bridge chip?
2020-01-27T21:29:43 < jpa-> 80 EUR/hour is what i try to charge
2020-01-27T21:30:19 < aandrew> yeah my normal end client rate is now USD$150, allow to haggle down to US$125
2020-01-27T21:30:38 < aandrew> I'll go a little lower if it's long term (>6mos) 
2020-01-27T21:32:00 < jpa-> i go higher if it is long term :D
2020-01-27T21:32:19 < jpa-> just because long projects that drag on and on are so annyoing
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2020-01-27T21:33:50 < aandrew> jpa-: I go the opposite becuase a) I like long term and b) I more than make up the shortfall in rate with the length of time
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2020-01-27T21:57:10 < specing> Hmm, my vrefint_cal measurements are about 175-186 LSB off, if vrefintcal is linear to vcc
2020-01-27T21:58:34 < qyx_> what sampling time do you use
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2020-01-27T21:59:30 < specing> err,scratch that  /me usess more paper
2020-01-27T22:02:14 < specing> 300 LSB error ??? 
2020-01-27T22:04:23 < specing> If factory measured 1541 at 3v3 +- 10mV and ADC = alpha*U_vcc ; alpha = ADC/U_vcc = 1541 / 3v3 = 467 steps/V. At 2.98 Uvcc that is alpha*2.98 = 1391.6, 295 LSB off
2020-01-27T22:05:35 < qyx> wat
2020-01-27T22:05:45 < specing> yeah, its totaly wrong
2020-01-27T22:06:15 < qyx> 1541/4096*3.3 = 1.2415 factory measured
2020-01-27T22:06:36 < qyx> what reading do you get?
2020-01-27T22:06:48 < qyx> at 2.98V?
2020-01-27T22:06:54 < specing> sorry, for a moment I thought vref_int was a simple divider
2020-01-27T22:06:58 < specing> 1686
2020-01-27T22:07:24 < qyx> 1686/4096*2.98 = 1.2266
2020-01-27T22:07:29 < qyx> which is about right
2020-01-27T22:08:49 < invzim> https://pastebin.com/C7MCC6jZ
2020-01-27T22:08:51 < invzim> what I do
2020-01-27T22:09:47 < invzim> average it over a 1/10s period
2020-01-27T22:10:27 < qyx> why do you divide by 4095?
2020-01-27T22:10:37 < qyx> full-scale is 4096
2020-01-27T22:10:40 < invzim> can't remember really
2020-01-27T22:11:12 < invzim> 0-4095
2020-01-27T22:11:59 < specing> full scale is 4095
2020-01-27T22:12:06 < specing> we just had this ADC talk an hour ago
2020-01-27T22:13:52 < qyx> wait what
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2020-01-27T22:35:57 < kakipro> can you recommend a thermocouple module with isolated sensing?
2020-01-27T22:36:13 < kakipro> spi or i2c bus
2020-01-27T22:36:20 < kakipro> 3v3 logic
2020-01-27T22:38:19 < kakipro> https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/AD7793-Isolated-K-Type-Thermocouple-Module-Temperature-Sample-Module-od34-/163906138874
2020-01-27T22:38:25 < kakipro> looks quite excessive
2020-01-27T22:40:09 < kakipro> hmm instead of isolated dc/dc module it goes with discrete transformer approach
2020-01-27T22:56:57 < kakipro> I had those connectors in my board
2020-01-27T22:57:14 < kakipro> I mean those are expensive
2020-01-27T22:57:22 < kakipro> GF nylon
2020-01-27T22:57:34 < kakipro> proper proper stuff
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2020-01-27T23:26:29 < karlp> is specing using the right sampling time? the error they're talking about is way out of line from 0.5lsb interpretations.
2020-01-27T23:28:33 < karlp> also, have they checked that their calibration values are from 3.3v not 3.0v?
2020-01-27T23:31:47 < qyx> he concluded his assumption was wrong
2020-01-27T23:32:02 < qyx> he though vref is just a voltage divider
2020-01-27T23:32:31 < qyx> idk if only for a moment or for a longer time
2020-01-27T23:32:52 < specing> for a moment, I'm using RM-provided formulads
2020-01-27T23:32:57 < specing> -d
2020-01-27T23:33:40 < specing> now I have remembered that I am toggling LEDs in the same procedure that triggers adc
2020-01-27T23:34:05 < specing> could be enough to throw measurements 1% off? Will try without
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2020-01-27T23:39:49 < karlp> current consumption spikes definitely drags vref if you don't have awesome supplies.
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2020-01-27T23:40:06 < karlp> I can see bounces in my adc readings when the rs485 transceivers are active
2020-01-27T23:40:13 < specing> its a 072rb discovery
2020-01-27T23:40:18 < specing> haha nice :)
2020-01-27T23:40:31 < karlp> current consumption goes from ~7-8 to 50mA or so, and vref sags 
2020-01-27T23:41:05 < karlp> (that's the line biasing resisters causing the current really, not the transceiver)
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2020-01-27T23:51:43 < PaulFertser> Niggers have their own sat: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/NIGCOMSAT#NigComSat-1
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2020-01-27T23:52:47 < Cracki> qyx, do you have anything definite? I looked but haven't seen definite answer as to whether vref = 4096 or 4095. in principle, it should be vref=4096 and voltage range for the highest adc value 4095 starts one LSB below that, because of how an ADC works
2020-01-27T23:53:56 < qyx> not definite but I would say ADC full scale is 4096 LSBs
2020-01-27T23:54:08 < qyx> the 4095th one being the last
2020-01-27T23:54:19 < Cracki> that would be my take too but stm32 docs are sometimes written by idiots
2020-01-27T23:55:51 < Cracki> when I did my internal ref measurements I noticed some noise too. that is likely from insufficiently filtered avcc
2020-01-27T23:56:09 < Cracki> and also I don't bother sending the chip into any sleep or low power mode during conversion, it's running continuously
2020-01-27T23:56:19 < qyx> eg. a 2 bit ADC has 4 LSBs full-scale, converting 0-4V gives 0-1V exclusive for the 0th LSB
2020-01-27T23:56:35 < aandrew> hm?
2020-01-27T23:56:39 < aandrew> 0-3 is four values
2020-01-27T23:56:43 < qyx> the last one (the third) is from 3V incl to 4V excl
2020-01-27T23:56:45 < aandrew> 0-4095 is 4096 values
2020-01-27T23:56:49 < qyx> yes
2020-01-27T23:56:55 < specing> qyx: no, because 1 LSB should mean 0.5-1.5 LSB inclusive values
2020-01-27T23:57:05 < Cracki> https://e2e.ti.com/blogs_/archives/b/precisionhub/archive/2016/04/01/it-s-in-the-math-how-to-convert-adc-code-to-a-voltage-part-1
2020-01-27T23:57:08 < Cracki> see graphic
2020-01-27T23:57:19 < qyx> specing: why
2020-01-27T23:57:20 < Cracki> "code clipped"
2020-01-27T23:57:20 < aandrew> and yes ideally LSB on a 4-bit, 4.000V ref ADC is 0.000-0.999V
2020-01-27T23:57:38 < Cracki> with some digit shifting ofc
2020-01-27T23:57:52 < Cracki> you might want to say 2 bit, because 4 levels
2020-01-27T23:57:55 < Cracki> 0,1,2,3
2020-01-27T23:58:00 < specing> qyx: AN2834
2020-01-27T23:58:21 < qyx> I said 2 bit
2020-01-27T23:58:22 < qyx> yay
2020-01-27T23:58:48 < Cracki> still, afaik the construction of an ADC would assign the highest bit 0 to the bottom half and 1 to the top half... so 111...111 is spanning the step JUST BELOW vref
2020-01-27T23:59:43 < Cracki> so it would be impossible to distinguish between saturation (above vref) and sampled voltage being in the last interval
2020-01-27T23:59:53 < dirty_d> wouldn't it make more sense if the sensed voltage was (Vref / (2^N - 1)) * adc_val?
--- Day changed Tue Jan 28 2020
2020-01-28T00:00:05 < Cracki> yes but that's not how adcs are built
2020-01-28T00:00:16 < dirty_d> that way with a 2-bit adc 0 would be 0V, and 3 would be Vref
2020-01-28T00:00:19 < Cracki> take a look at a simple r2r network, which is one type of *dac*
2020-01-28T00:00:25 < Cracki> and is the basis for one type of ADC
2020-01-28T00:00:54 < Cracki> a 2 bit r2r network with 4v reference can give you outputs of 0,1,2,3 volts, but not 4 volts
2020-01-28T00:01:12 < Cracki> so all you can distinguish is 0..1, 1..2, 2..3
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2020-01-28T00:01:20 < Cracki> and 3..infty
2020-01-28T00:01:44 < Cracki> <0 is usually counted as 0, and >3 is counted as 3, but >4 or >=4 can't be distinguished
2020-01-28T00:02:13 < qyx> also
2020-01-28T00:02:32 < qyx> fukit because 1LSB error is well below specing's 1%
2020-01-28T00:02:50 < Cracki> so what's why input voltage = adc value  * vref / 2**nbits
2020-01-28T00:02:54 < Cracki> right :P
2020-01-28T00:03:08 < Cracki> and he might have the wrong formulas, or misunderstand
2020-01-28T00:03:18 < specing> I seem to have 60 LSB error measuring vrefint
2020-01-28T00:03:24 < specing> I took the reference manual one
2020-01-28T00:03:34 < Cracki> the internal calibration value says what the internal ref was when exactly 3.3v were applied
2020-01-28T00:03:37 < specing> U_vcc := Integer(VREFINT_CAL) * 3300 / Integer(Data);
2020-01-28T00:03:43 < specing> U_adc : constant Integer := Integer(ADC_Data) * U_vcc / 4095
2020-01-28T00:03:45 < Cracki> so that calibration value says exactly what the internal ref voltage is
2020-01-28T00:04:01 < Cracki> and going from that, you can figure what your vref is right now
2020-01-28T00:04:16 < specing> not exactly, +- 10mV and at least 0.5LSB error on top of that
2020-01-28T00:04:22 < Cracki> vrefint = vrefintcal / 4096 * 3.3
2020-01-28T00:04:23 < Cracki> in volts
2020-01-28T00:05:01 < specing> Cracki: 1.2415
2020-01-28T00:05:03 < Cracki> vrefintcal / 4096 * 3.3 = vref / 4096 * avcc (avcc unknown)
2020-01-28T00:05:06 < Cracki> then rearrange
2020-01-28T00:05:16 < qyx> so again
2020-01-28T00:05:30 < qyx> how is your vdda fed?
2020-01-28T00:05:31 < Cracki> I might be having a minor brain fart
2020-01-28T00:05:49 < qyx> how long sampling time are you using?
2020-01-28T00:06:01 < Cracki> also could you dump your vrefintcal and what your vrefint is read as right now, in adc values
2020-01-28T00:06:14 < qyx> he did, it was about right
2020-01-28T00:06:14 < Cracki> ye, set adc prescaler as low as you can bear it
2020-01-28T00:06:19 < Cracki> good good :P
2020-01-28T00:07:58 < Cracki> if intcal is 1541, then vrefint was indeed 1.2415 volts.
2020-01-28T00:08:24 < Cracki> if you measure vrefint to be 1686 right now, then that means avcc is 1.2415/1686 * 4096 = 3.016 volts
2020-01-28T00:08:27 < specing> qyx: 1uF+100nF caps on discovery devkit, sampling time is 111 = 239.5*adc_clk, adc_clk = 48MHz/4 (slowest)
2020-01-28T00:08:45 < Cracki> go into the clock tree, you can div that down a lot more
2020-01-28T00:08:55 < specing> VREFINT_CAL is 1541, measure 1686 
2020-01-28T00:10:23 < specing> the measurement varies +- 3 LSB
2020-01-28T00:13:57 < Cracki> 1 / 48e6 * 4 * 239.5 = 20 microseconds sampling, that ought to be long enough
2020-01-28T00:14:12 < specing> yes
2020-01-28T00:14:16 < Cracki> so avcc might be jittering by a few lsb
2020-01-28T00:14:20 < Cracki> got a scope maybe?
2020-01-28T00:15:35 < qyx> so you shou
2020-01-28T00:15:40 < qyx> fuk
2020-01-28T00:15:52 < qyx> so you should get about 1706 reading
2020-01-28T00:16:04 < qyx> whjich is 20 LSBs off
2020-01-28T00:17:04 < specing> qyx: UT210E-measured Uvcc is 2.98V
2020-01-28T00:17:04 < Cracki> is there any mention of additional sampling limitation of vrefint?
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2020-01-28T00:17:20 < Cracki> it should be buffered should it not
2020-01-28T00:17:35 < Cracki> perhaps avcc doesn't have enough current capability. that may cause trouble?
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2020-01-28T00:18:05 < qyx> specing: yeah
2020-01-28T00:18:08 < Cracki> my f303 says 200 ksps single-ended draws ~3.3 microamps on vref+
2020-01-28T00:18:42 < qyx> so 1.2415/2.98*4096 is 1706 or so
2020-01-28T00:19:37 < Cracki> one possibility is that the factory calibration is wrong :>
2020-01-28T00:20:32 < Cracki> check datasheet, effective number of bits (ENOB) for mine is around 10.8-11.3 typical
2020-01-28T00:20:44 < Cracki> so that means 4 LSB expected error
2020-01-28T00:21:26 < Cracki> uh nvm, I'm tired
2020-01-28T00:21:45 < Cracki> that's about 1 bit or 2 LSB
2020-01-28T00:22:52 < Cracki> found the figure that states 1 LSB ideal = vref+ / 4096, not 4095, so that's settled
2020-01-28T00:29:53 < specing> huh? RM and AN2834 say that 1 LSB = vref+/4096
2020-01-28T00:29:58 < specing> err /4095
2020-01-28T00:30:54 < Cracki> which rm?
2020-01-28T00:30:57 < Cracki> I looked in my data sheet
2020-01-28T00:31:25 < Cracki> (note I have an f303, not sure what yours is, but in principle they should work the same)
2020-01-28T00:31:41 < specing> RM0091 
2020-01-28T00:32:37 < Cracki> my rm0316 doesn't say at all, only for the DAC (4096 there too), but my data sheet DS9118 states 4096
2020-01-28T00:33:12 < Cracki> you're looking at the maximum digital value, not the maximum voltage
2020-01-28T00:33:23 < Cracki> of course it can't give you a literal 4096 value
2020-01-28T00:33:54 < Cracki> for some dumb reason they declare that FULL_SCALE
2020-01-28T00:33:57 < Cracki> that's not how this works
2020-01-28T00:34:47 < Cracki> wats your datasheet
2020-01-28T00:36:14 < Cracki> oh lol they specify vrefint_cal for 3.3v +10 millivolts
2020-01-28T00:36:25 < Cracki> that will certainly explain your difference
2020-01-28T00:36:35 < specing> +- and it doesen't
2020-01-28T00:36:36 < Cracki> 3.29 .. 3.31
2020-01-28T00:36:41 < Cracki> wat, does not?
2020-01-28T00:36:47 < specing> no
2020-01-28T00:37:28 < Cracki> vref = np.array([3.29, 3.31])
2020-01-28T00:37:28 < specing> that is less than 2 LSB
2020-01-28T00:37:36 < qyx> thats another 13 lsbs
2020-01-28T00:37:36 < Cracki>  vref * 1541/4096 # array([1.23777, 1.24529])
2020-01-28T00:38:03 < Cracki> gives vref range of array([3.00705, 3.02533])
2020-01-28T00:38:05 < qyx> wat 2 lsv
2020-01-28T00:38:21 < Cracki> ok, yeah, still a bit away from 2.98
2020-01-28T00:38:40 < qyx> 0.01/3.3*4096 is more than 2 LSB
2020-01-28T00:39:41 < Cracki> there's stuff unaccounted for still
2020-01-28T00:40:04 < specing> VREFINT measurement differs by 4 LSB when the led is toggled
2020-01-28T00:40:35 < specing> pin voltage measurement differs by 8 LSB
2020-01-28T00:41:41  * specing recompiles without the damn LED toggle
2020-01-28T00:42:23 < Cracki> in data sheet, look at electrical characteristics -> operating conditions -> 12-bit adc char...
2020-01-28T00:42:31 < Cracki> it has an "adc accuracy char" figure
2020-01-28T00:42:57 < Cracki> oh, in those older sheets they don't label x=4096 as vdda
2020-01-28T00:44:17 < specing> Cracki: what should I be looking at?
2020-01-28T00:44:26 < Cracki> no clue
2020-01-28T00:44:39 < specing> XD
2020-01-28T00:44:51 < Cracki> the 4095/4096 issue is shit docs but doesn't matter for your demonstrated difference
2020-01-28T00:44:52 < qyx> are you measuring vrefint continuously?
2020-01-28T00:45:00 < Cracki> (I do, he probably too)
2020-01-28T00:45:07 < qyx> or just once after the mcu is started?
2020-01-28T00:45:26 < qyx> did you read errata?
2020-01-28T00:45:38 < specing> qyx: continuously, but there is a 1-2s gap between vreint measurements and actual pin measurements
2020-01-28T00:45:45 < qyx> they say vrefint divider may not ne stable in the firt second
2020-01-28T00:45:56 < Cracki> uh, someone says to use HAL_ADCEx_Calibration_Start and _I_ don't... cubemx didn't generate the call for that
2020-01-28T00:46:19 < Cracki> I'll try that real quick
2020-01-28T00:46:53 < Cracki> https://community.st.com/s/question/0D50X00009fFE1dSAG/stm32l476-measured-vrefint-has-wrong-value
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2020-01-28T00:48:50 < Cracki> that... solves it!
2020-01-28T00:48:58 < Cracki> specing, click that link, do the calibration :D
2020-01-28T00:49:04 < Cracki> I'm getting values spot on right now
2020-01-28T00:49:57 < Cracki> https://gist.github.com/crackwitz/6052a319035d53c1f725ed659a05f7dd
2020-01-28T00:50:10 < Cracki> I do have ~2.94 vcc
2020-01-28T00:50:21 < Cracki> not sure I can believe the temperature tho but my calculation should be right
2020-01-28T00:50:26 < Cracki> it's freshly started
2020-01-28T00:50:52 < Cracki> supply is a 2.2+47k divider and the 0.68 volts at the center are confirmed by multimeter
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2020-01-28T00:52:54 < Cracki> 0.673 measured, 0.68 is probably 0.675... so that's good
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2020-01-28T00:53:31 < Cracki> thanks for having the same problem as I do :D
2020-01-28T00:55:40 < specing> Damn, I'm on a real slow connection here >_>
2020-01-28T00:55:56 < Cracki>     while(HAL_ADCEx_Calibration_Start(&hadc1, ADC_SINGLE_ENDED) != HAL_OK);
2020-01-28T00:56:01 < Cracki> basically that
2020-01-28T00:56:13 < Cracki> this entirely removed any weird offsets I saw upto now
2020-01-28T00:56:47 < specing> Oh, I'm not using HAL
2020-01-28T00:56:58 < specing> But I am doing calibration
2020-01-28T00:57:00 < Cracki> temp sensor seems plausible too. it doesn't feel cold or hot and it doesn't move when I put a warm finger on it; it DID move when I put a cold finger on it
2020-01-28T00:57:14 < specing> ADC.CR.ADCAL := 1; loop exit when ADC.CR.ADCAL = 0; end loop;
2020-01-28T00:57:18 < Cracki> okeh... are you waiting for cal finish?
2020-01-28T00:57:24 < Cracki> k
2020-01-28T00:58:04 < specing> No idea what HAL_ADCEx_Calibration_Start does, but I'm supposing it does ADC.CR.ADCAL := 1; and returns the value of ADC.CR.ADCAL bit
2020-01-28T00:58:12 < specing> suspecting/expecting
2020-01-28T00:58:27 < Cracki> added the function from my f3 hal: https://gist.github.com/crackwitz/6052a319035d53c1f725ed659a05f7dd
2020-01-28T00:58:33 < Cracki> disables adc too
2020-01-28T00:58:42 < Cracki> flips adcaldif bits
2020-01-28T00:58:46 < Cracki> and adcal bit
2020-01-28T00:59:34 < Cracki> so... same as what you do. hm.
2020-01-28T01:04:25 < specing> 3793=2019.12.13_02:17:54,ADC=1689,VREFINT,faccal=1541,Vcc=3010mV
2020-01-28T01:04:26 < specing> 3794=2019.12.13_02:17:54,ADC=3003,Battery,U_batt=36507mV,chg_pres=0,date=0_1:3:14,idle                                                                                           
2020-01-28T01:04:28 < specing> 3795=2019.12.13_02:17:54,ADC=1940,TEMP,T30=1760,T110=1318,Tj=30
2020-01-28T01:04:33 < specing> Current situation on UART
2020-01-28T01:04:54 < specing> So, my total error is down by 20% from 0.6V to 0.5V
2020-01-28T01:05:55 < specing> UT210E says 2.97V on 3v3-GND
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2020-01-28T01:21:57 < specing> 23 LSB error now at reading vrefint
2020-01-28T01:22:02 < specing> uh huh
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2020-01-28T01:22:39 < specing> UT210E meter has +- (0.7% + 3) accuracy at reading up to 20V DC (if I am reading the right table because it is all chinese
2020-01-28T01:23:25 < specing> maybe the stm32 is more accurate than my meter, hehe
2020-01-28T01:24:02 < specing> What is the +3 btw? Display resolution is 10mV, so +30mV?
2020-01-28T01:25:50 < Cracki> bitch! int16_t - int16_t does not result in an over/underflowed int16_t but in something wider. somehow I must have missed that rule of C
2020-01-28T01:26:20 < Cracki> the+3 is 3 "counts" (LSB in decimal) on the readout
2020-01-28T01:26:29 < Cracki> +3 means +-3 counts
2020-01-28T01:27:13 < Cracki> if it displays "3.030", it could be .003 more or less (and 0.7%) from the true value
2020-01-28T01:28:33 < Cracki> you might wanna order a voltage reference to check your meter against
2020-01-28T01:28:54 < Cracki> the 0.7% meter error could explain what you see, eh?
2020-01-28T01:29:18 < Cracki> 0.7% on 3.02 (your target?) is .02 volts
2020-01-28T01:34:09 < Cracki> -.- of course, everything is promoted to int... oh well
2020-01-28T01:34:34 < specing> haha
2020-01-28T01:34:49 < specing> Another meter (with unknown accuracy) displays 2.982V
2020-01-28T01:35:24 < Cracki> germans have a noun for that. Schätzeisen, guessing "apparatus"
2020-01-28T01:35:31 < specing> I'd still believe the meters though, as they show 36V on the battery while my computed battery voltage is 36.5V
2020-01-28T01:36:16 < specing> and the vrefint measurement seems to be the primary cause of that miscalculation
2020-01-28T01:36:49 < specing> Cracki: about the numeric errors: I've carefully arranged the multiplications so that no underflow/overflow can happen (within expect measurement range of course)
2020-01-28T01:37:02 < specing> And such that the errors are minimised
2020-01-28T01:37:15 < Cracki> in my case, it's reading a quadrature encoder and I need it to wrap around properly
2020-01-28T01:37:24 < Cracki> and it does, when I cast the result back to int16_t
2020-01-28T01:37:54 < Cracki> for positive rotation, difference is always positive, even when previous and current reading cross over int16_max
2020-01-28T01:38:21 < Cracki> as for my multiplications of adc stuff, it's float so i don't have to worry much :>
2020-01-28T01:39:31 < specing> Cracki: pfft large code size :P
2020-01-28T01:39:38 < specing> Maybe later I can use fixed point
2020-01-28T01:41:07 < Cracki> I have 128k to sprawl out over. gonna set up "eeprom" next.
2020-01-28T01:42:30 < specing> Cracki: sprawl out? :P
2020-01-28T01:43:10 < specing> Yeah, it is pointless to care about code size. I'm at 5K right now on an 128K device. And even 3/4 of those 5K is garbage that could be trimmed
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2020-01-28T01:48:53 < specing> ok, I should be getting 2988 on the pin, but I'm getting 3003. But what causes it to be skewed upwards? Hmm..
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2020-01-28T02:15:53 < Cracki> cat https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-6593369/Owner-finds-cat-sprawled-unusual-position-snoozes.html
2020-01-28T02:16:33 < Cracki> muricans https://cdn.britannica.com/48/148448-050-CE622746/Las-Vegas-Nevada.jpg
2020-01-28T02:21:20 < kakipro> I they stopped doing endless grid
2020-01-28T02:33:56 < Cracki> now it's endless twisting suburbs
2020-01-28T02:34:31 < Cracki> I'm perfectly fine with grid so long as it's like in paris or barcelona, i.e. 5+ stories and BEAUTIFUL facades
2020-01-28T02:34:51 < Cracki> oh and also effective public transport. fuck busses, I want trams, light rail, whatever
2020-01-28T02:35:55 < Cracki> a good suburb needs to have woods and creeks and stuff
2020-01-28T02:36:43 < Cracki> you can have tram station *and* quiet nature side by side. I grew up with that.
2020-01-28T02:37:14 < Cracki> oh btw how many died of bat soup already?
2020-01-28T02:41:38 < Cracki> 82 dead, 61 recovered, so 57%
2020-01-28T02:55:24 < kakipro> no route to host
2020-01-28T02:55:27 < kakipro> sweet
2020-01-28T02:56:18 < kakipro> you know that feeling when no route to host?
2020-01-28T02:56:32 < kakipro> and it's your server
2020-01-28T02:59:15 < Cracki> our admins cause that constantly
2020-01-28T02:59:38 < kakipro> dist-upgrade was lit though
2020-01-28T02:59:48 < kakipro> basically everything
2020-01-28T03:00:13 < Cracki> they have password and private key auth and both cause an entry in log files that fail2ban scans... and if you use password, even successfully, you still get a failed line for private key (or something), and that kills you
2020-01-28T03:01:14 < Cracki> kills you if you do password too often per interval, which happens with things such as filezilla all the time because it transmits the queue as soon as you put something in it (unless you know to just put it in the queue without processing)
2020-01-28T03:01:34 < Cracki> I should do dist-upgrade on a few of my setups too
2020-01-28T03:08:46 < kakipro> *phef* power cycle did it
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2020-01-28T03:11:44 < Cracki> ipmi, ilo, ... something like that?
2020-01-28T03:11:52 < Cracki> hardware remote access
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2020-01-28T03:26:53 < kakipro> suko
2020-01-28T03:26:59 < kakipro> local access
2020-01-28T03:27:23 < kakipro> *Schuko
2020-01-28T03:31:15 < Cracki> suko? cyka blyat
2020-01-28T03:32:49 < Cracki> press esc to go back https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZpXnEvW0XD0
2020-01-28T03:35:31 < kakipro> null>
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2020-01-28T04:38:26 < Laurenceb> Mein gott, Mein Fuhrer Sigismund
2020-01-28T04:39:43 < Laurenceb> https://www.google.com/search?q=sigismund+steinhauser
2020-01-28T05:00:32 < kakinull> hello friend
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2020-01-28T05:50:18 < Cracki> trippy https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z4mfnhCiAjA
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2020-01-28T06:01:43 < Cracki> wew https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aqqEYz38ens
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2020-01-28T06:32:21 < dongs> what is this
2020-01-28T06:32:25 < dongs> literally autistic shit
2020-01-28T06:33:28 < Cracki> here, have some mink butchering rats https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DB1d18_Xxg0
2020-01-28T06:38:49 < jadew> sup?
2020-01-28T06:39:12 < jadew> Cracki, why are you awake at this hour? what's your work schedule like?
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2020-01-28T07:35:05 < jadew> I'm thinking about getting a pick and place
2020-01-28T07:35:20 < jadew> (or making one, if it takes less than a week)
2020-01-28T07:36:20 < aandrew> it might take a week to build, but it'll take a year to calibrate and tweak
2020-01-28T07:36:47 < jadew> that's probably true
2020-01-28T07:38:49 < jadew> they seem to start at about 3k
2020-01-28T07:39:06 < jadew> I assume those are not the best
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2020-01-28T09:12:03 < dongs> anything below 50-100k is absolute shit-tier
2020-01-28T09:12:14 < dongs> so no you dont need a dicknplace
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2020-01-28T09:14:53 < jadew> dongs, I'm doing it manually now and it takes a lot of time to populate a couple of boards
2020-01-28T09:15:29 < jadew> I improved my process a lot, but it still takes quite a bit of time
2020-01-28T09:18:17 < zyp> unless you have enough to do to keep it running daily, it's probably cheaper to pay somebody to assemble your boards than to do it yourself
2020-01-28T09:19:36 < jadew> thing is, I'm doing it manually now and that accounts for maybe 40 minutes of the production time for my latest boards
2020-01-28T09:19:50 < jadew> not really sure why
2020-01-28T09:20:14 < jadew> maybe it's because I didn't have all the parts at hand, I'll have to time myself on the next batch
2020-01-28T09:21:02 < jadew> the components are so freaking expensive I only buy a couple at a time, so it makes no sense to take them out of the bag until the moment I need them
2020-01-28T09:22:46 < zyp> if you're only doing a couple of boards at a time, you'd probably spend more time setting up a p&p than assembling manually
2020-01-28T09:23:22 < jadew> zyp, yeah, but since I don't switch between projects that often and I tend to use the same component values, I don't think I'd have to switch feeders too often
2020-01-28T09:23:33 < jadew> I'd just keep it loaded with everything
2020-01-28T09:23:58 < zyp> how can you keep it loaded with everything when you only buy a couple at a time?
2020-01-28T09:24:15 < jadew> :) I mean for the passive and the cheaper ones
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2020-01-28T09:25:48 < zyp> how about you outsource assembly of all the cheap parts, keep a stock of half done boards, and then do a second reflow of the expensive parts?
2020-01-28T09:26:43 < jadew> that's an interesting idea, but I'd have to apply apply paste manually
2020-01-28T09:26:48 < jadew> maybe there's a way to make it work tho
2020-01-28T09:27:15 < jadew> I'll give it some thought, thanks
2020-01-28T09:27:22 < jpa-> i've been considering the same, as jlcpcb pcba is dirt cheap for the common passives but they don't stock many other parts
2020-01-28T09:27:37 < zyp> just put the cheap parts on one side of the board and the expensive on the other
2020-01-28T09:27:51 < jpa-> one would need to modify the soldermask somehow to leave holes for the already assembled parts
2020-01-28T09:28:04 < jpa-> err, solder stencil
2020-01-28T09:28:05 < zyp> stencil, you mean
2020-01-28T09:28:20 < zyp> cheap side/expensive side fixes that
2020-01-28T09:28:36 < jpa-> yeah, but that's a kind of invasive change to an existing board
2020-01-28T09:28:57 < jpa-> and my reflow process only handles one-sided boards anyway :P
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2020-01-28T11:17:32 < Cracki> jadew, weekend had no work so... ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
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2020-01-28T11:23:54 < jadew> Cracki, you just woke up?
2020-01-28T11:25:14 < jadew> I'm asking because you were awake 5 hours ago
2020-01-28T11:25:33 < jadew> and it was an awkward hour to begin with, so if you slept, you didn't sleep too much
2020-01-28T11:45:22 < Cracki> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IKETWtBPYnU
2020-01-28T11:50:39 < jadew> lol
2020-01-28T11:59:24 < Cracki> I'm awake enough to be a zombie that can handle copypasting and modifying some eeprom emulation code and handle minor money decisions for the rest of the day
2020-01-28T12:02:12 < Cracki> great I'm gonna die I just sneezed
2020-01-28T12:16:15 < jadew> I was at the post office yesterday and the lady in front of me was coughing so bad, I thought I'll surely catch something
2020-01-28T12:25:30 < jadew> I think I'll make a video today
2020-01-28T12:26:02 < jadew> realized there's a need for it as I was writing the installation instructions for my latest prescaler
2020-01-28T12:26:37 < jadew> it's really easy to install, but it's also easy to screw it up and destroy the board
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2020-01-28T12:53:51 < PaulFertser> I have regular mechanical vernier calipers (0.1 mm accuracy) and they were working fine but now when I fully close the lips it shows 0.1 mm offset. The vernier plate is held by three screws firmly and doesn't seem to be adjustable. Anything obvious I am missing?
2020-01-28T12:54:45 < PaulFertser> Oh, interesting, when I pull on the moving lip, it rotates a bit.
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2020-01-28T12:55:32 < jadew> you're missing digital calipers
2020-01-28T12:55:44 < PaulFertser> Hehe
2020-01-28T12:55:58 < PaulFertser> I guess they might have the same mechanical failure.
2020-01-28T12:56:10 < jadew> that's true, would probably be worse
2020-01-28T12:56:23 < jadew> because you would calibrate that out and the error would show up in the measurement
2020-01-28T13:23:29 < Thorn> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Wj4OhJJc3a8 how to really fuck up as an engineer
2020-01-28T13:26:24 < PaulFertser> Rotating it enough to "cancel out" the error is certainly wrong, the lips became not parallel. Hm, probably it was always off by 0.1 and I wasn't noticing or have forgotten?..
2020-01-28T13:27:28 < jadew> PaulFertser, 0.1mm is a lot of error for a caliper
2020-01-28T13:27:51 < jadew> there should be several screws that keep the moving lip in place
2020-01-28T13:28:08 < jadew> two of them should be on the other side of where you put the thumb
2020-01-28T13:28:28 < jadew> you can tighten those
2020-01-28T13:28:53 < jadew> might be just the one tho, pushing on a spring plate
2020-01-28T13:29:06 < jadew> that's meant to keep the lip from having that rotation you're speaking of
2020-01-28T13:29:19 < jadew> why don't you disassemble it?
2020-01-28T13:30:27 < PaulFertser> jadew: just disassembled, and I see the screws to adjust the spring tension.
2020-01-28T13:32:51 < jadew> sorry I didn't mention this earlier... it didn't came to me
2020-01-28T13:35:46 < englishman> jadew: I'll sell you mine, it's about $20k usd of machine and feeders, for $8k plus shipping
2020-01-28T13:35:52 < englishman> with oven and stencil printers
2020-01-28T13:36:26 < englishman> used to make thousands of boards. 
2020-01-28T13:36:33 < jadew> which model and how many feeders?
2020-01-28T13:36:51 < jadew> and why are you selling it?
2020-01-28T13:37:36 < englishman> closed the biz to get a realjob
2020-01-28T13:38:01 < englishman> qihe tvm920
2020-01-28T13:38:09 < jadew> thousands of boards and a job was better than the biz? how does that work?
2020-01-28T13:38:41 < englishman> id have to count the feeders, all sizes from 8mm to 44mm
2020-01-28T13:38:54 < englishman> less stress, very good pay
2020-01-28T13:38:59 < englishman> finished at 4pm
2020-01-28T13:39:04 < jadew> makes sense
2020-01-28T13:39:22 < englishman> and doing engineering, not assembly and bookkeeping
2020-01-28T13:39:54 < jadew> sounds a lot like the problems I'm having
2020-01-28T13:40:03 < jadew> minus the thousands of boards :P
2020-01-28T13:41:10 < englishman> well I bought it to speed up making ~10 prototypes but found the niche of turnkey rush pcb design and assembly to be lucrative
2020-01-28T13:41:34 < englishman> idea to product in 3 weeks or whatever
2020-01-28T13:41:56 < PaulFertser> jadew: thank you for your ideas
2020-01-28T13:42:27 < jadew> PaulFertser, np, one more thing, don't disassemble the vernier scale
2020-01-28T13:43:06 < jadew> it's a bitch to put back
2020-01-28T13:43:16 < PaulFertser> It's not a mechanism, just a plate.
2020-01-28T13:43:27 < PaulFertser> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Caliper_detail_view.jpeg mine looks very similar
2020-01-28T13:43:42 < jadew> yeah, and you'll keep second guessing yourself on weather you aligned it right or not
2020-01-28T13:44:21 < jadew> unless it's off already...
2020-01-28T13:44:49 < PaulFertser> Probably it was always off and I'm just stupid.
2020-01-28T13:46:00 < jadew> well, as long as the measurement is repeatable, you can align it
2020-01-28T13:46:11 < jadew> but I remember I didn't enjoy doing that on mine
2020-01-28T13:47:36 < jadew> englishman, that PnP looks pretty big
2020-01-28T13:48:34 < jadew> something like that will have to wait until I change my shop's location
2020-01-28T13:48:45 < jadew> it's in a proper industrial building, but it's at the 3rd floor
2020-01-28T13:49:05 < jadew> there are lots of stuff I want to get but I can't because of that
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2020-01-28T14:44:45 < jadew> gave up on the video
2020-01-28T14:44:50 < jadew> too much effort
2020-01-28T14:45:24 < jadew> I already wrote the instructions with accompanying pictures
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2020-01-28T15:10:51 < jadew> https://gisanddata.maps.arcgis.com/apps/opsdashboard/index.html#/bda7594740fd40299423467b48e9ecf6
2020-01-28T15:11:39 < jadew> so the death rate is 63%, not 15% like I heard yesterday
2020-01-28T15:15:42 < jpa-> 63% of what?
2020-01-28T15:17:09 < jadew> that's the rate of deaths vs recoveries
2020-01-28T15:17:23 < jadew> 107 deaths vs 63 recoveries
2020-01-28T15:19:06 < jpa-> sounds like it's faster to die than to recover
2020-01-28T15:19:26 < jpa-> it would be much more meaningful to compare "number alive after X days from infections"
2020-01-28T15:19:49 < jadew> yeah, I guess we'll get the real stats at the end
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2020-01-28T15:21:45 < kakipro> we get the real numbers from irc
2020-01-28T15:21:56 < kakipro> the ultimate truth
2020-01-28T15:22:21 < karlp> I just get spinny logos
2020-01-28T15:26:10 < con3> glad to see the convo has shifted a bit since the last time logged on :D
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2020-01-28T15:31:22 < Mangy_Dog> is it still the case that stm32f103c8 have the same falsh as the cb?
2020-01-28T15:31:40 < Mangy_Dog> i know on spec that c8 has 64kb and cb is 128 but there was a time when the chips were actually the same
2020-01-28T15:33:50 < karlp> no, therew as a time when extra flash was available, they didn't report chip ids as being xB parts, nor did they report the flash as available, you could just use it if you thought you were lucky.
2020-01-28T15:34:19 < karlp> I would imagine the situation hasn't substantially changed.  there may be more memory there, they may not, it may behave properly across voltage and temperature, it may not.
2020-01-28T15:35:10 < Mangy_Dog> hmm
2020-01-28T15:35:31 < PaulFertser> The situation changed in a sense that there's now plenty of counterfeit stm32f103 chips
2020-01-28T15:35:40 < Mangy_Dog> might not be an issue but it would have been good to know if there was 128 i actually thought i was ordering the cb variant at the time :/ realised i got the two confused again
2020-01-28T15:35:54 < PaulFertser> I'd expect original ST to be the same as before, that is, with 128 kiB flash.
2020-01-28T15:36:02 < Mangy_Dog> really paul?
2020-01-28T15:36:39 < PaulFertser> Mangy_Dog: they all used to be the way karlp describes, all having flash but not reporting it. I do not think ST could have changed something about it.
2020-01-28T15:36:40 < Mangy_Dog> counterfiet i mean
2020-01-28T15:36:51 < PaulFertser> Mangy_Dog: oh indeed, let me find the reference.
2020-01-28T15:37:04 < Mangy_Dog> nods please do would be good to see if mine are ligit or not
2020-01-28T15:37:07 < Mangy_Dog> legit
2020-01-28T15:37:24 < Mangy_Dog> im assuming theres some give aways in the markings or something
2020-01-28T15:37:40 < PaulFertser> Mangy_Dog: https://github.com/keirf/Greaseweazle/wiki/STM32-Fakes trivial to check
2020-01-28T15:37:51 < PaulFertser> (by running code on them)
2020-01-28T15:38:29 < karlp> arcgis doesn't event have wuhan on their map.
2020-01-28T15:39:05 < karlp> PaulFertser: well, yields may have changed, processes may have been tweaked.  no way to know :)
2020-01-28T15:39:33 < PaulFertser> karlp: no sure way but I'd expect they wouldn't bother tweaking anything for such an old part.
2020-01-28T15:40:34 < Mangy_Dog> well markings on mine looks genuin and crisp... and correct layout
2020-01-28T15:40:50 < Mangy_Dog> though CHN manufacturing not MLA
2020-01-28T15:40:53 < Mangy_Dog> MAL
2020-01-28T15:41:03 < Mangy_Dog> what ever malayisa is
2020-01-28T15:41:40 < karlp> PaulFertser: agreed, but with volumes good, tweaking for yield is always an option?
2020-01-28T15:42:10 < karlp> I disagree with cs32 parts being labelled as fakes on that page.  you might hav ea dispute withyoru seller, but there's no fakery goign on there.
2020-01-28T15:42:35 < PaulFertser> Mangy_Dog: just solder one and try the blinky test they're discussing. If you were buying from a reputable source, I'd expect it to work.
2020-01-28T15:42:50 < karlp> the two divots vs one divot is just malaysia vs china packaging as far as I know though, I sure wouldn't be relying on that for any sort of "fakness" indicator
2020-01-28T15:42:57 < Mangy_Dog> paul Ali :p
2020-01-28T15:43:22 < Mangy_Dog> i mean sure could still be fake but on looks alone
2020-01-28T15:43:25 < Mangy_Dog> looks genuine
2020-01-28T15:43:28 < karlp> Mangy_Dog: only parts I've had that were faked before were much better marked than the real ones.
2020-01-28T15:43:33 < Mangy_Dog> so could be a good fake
2020-01-28T15:43:56 < Mangy_Dog> CHN 712
2020-01-28T15:44:25 < karlp> that's just week/year manufacturing stuff.
2020-01-28T15:44:49 < karlp> you can read that in the datasheet under part markings.
2020-01-28T15:44:55 < Mangy_Dog> ahh
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2020-01-28T15:58:23 < karlp> bitmask could buy this just for the case: https://www.banggood.com/Minleaf-ZX7-250-250A-Mini-Electric-Welding-Machine-Portable-Digital-Display-MMA-ARC-DC-Inverter-Plastic-Welder-Weld-Equipment-p-1583503.html
2020-01-28T16:00:44 < kakipro> I wonder if it's hanging on the wire based on seeing how strain relief of mains lead is
2020-01-28T16:01:06 < kakipro> it seems to be "loose fit"
2020-01-28T16:09:33 < kakipro> I would not be too suprised to see it being hold on place with only a blob of hot snot
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2020-01-28T16:39:02 < benishor> SJW deserve to be ass raped
2020-01-28T16:39:23 < benishor> https://github.com/microsoft/vscode/issues/87440
2020-01-28T16:40:57 < karlp> dude, that story is months old, handled well, get over it?
2020-01-28T16:48:20 < thardin> that looks like the most storm in a teacup thing in quite a while
2020-01-28T16:49:49 < thardin> oh god the responses are equally insipid
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2020-01-28T17:27:42 < mawk> aaa
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2020-01-28T17:46:03 < bitmask> woot
2020-01-28T17:46:04 < bitmask> https://i.imgur.com/jxopEXU.jpg
2020-01-28T17:46:10 < bitmask> china mail came through surprisingly
2020-01-28T17:46:17 < bitmask> thought I was gonna have to wait a month
2020-01-28T17:46:35 < kakipro> it's not so certain if you order now
2020-01-28T17:46:51 < bitmask> I ordered the 17th
2020-01-28T17:46:58 < bitmask> tracking wasn't updating so I thought I missed it
2020-01-28T17:47:04 < bitmask> still have another package though
2020-01-28T17:47:11 < bitmask> which I dont think was epacket
2020-01-28T17:47:14 < bitmask> this was
2020-01-28T17:47:14 < kakipro> when ncov hits szh hk then you might see major delays
2020-01-28T17:47:25 < bitmask> yea
2020-01-28T17:49:24 < Thorn> I'm waiting for an order placed on jan 23 to ship and it still hasn't been shipped
2020-01-28T17:49:36 < PaulFertser> Free access to all materials re 2019-nCoV: https://secure.wiley.com/Coronavirus2020
2020-01-28T17:51:57 < bitmask> maybe I should order some spot welding electrodes locally, seems silly to wait on this project just because of the electrodes, I have everything else
2020-01-28T17:52:29 < bitmask> i'll give it til friday
2020-01-28T17:59:34 < kakipro> I bought some copper alloy
2020-01-28T17:59:44 < kakipro> copper berylium or something
2020-01-28T17:59:52 < kakipro> totally cool
2020-01-28T17:59:59 < kakipro> for those electrodes
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2020-01-28T18:00:29 < bitmask> hmm
2020-01-28T18:00:38 < bitmask> what makes it special, hard alloy?
2020-01-28T18:00:46 < kakipro> something
2020-01-28T18:01:02 < kakipro> or maybe I choose some less dangerous alloy
2020-01-28T18:01:16 < Steffanx> Dont die kakipro  
2020-01-28T18:01:21 < bitmask> also my MOT secondary cable is way too long, so I ordered a new one, went from 42" 4 awg to 30" 2 awg
2020-01-28T18:01:51 < bitmask> oh yea berylium oxide is that pink microwave insulator right?
2020-01-28T18:04:21 < Mangy_Dog> https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/538814618106331139/671747021534920704/unknown.png  Im having trouble connecting to my board via ST link... Assume that the stm32 is totally blank as its a new board build and the chip came from a reel...  Can you see anything wrong in my circuit design?
2020-01-28T18:04:52 < Mangy_Dog> basically stlink util isnt seeing a target at all
2020-01-28T18:05:37 < Thorn> Mangy_Dog: try to connect while holding your reset button
2020-01-28T18:07:29 < PaulFertser> Mangy_Dog: do you have AVCC wired?
2020-01-28T18:07:44 < kakipro> https://www.twi-global.com/technical-knowledge/faqs/faq-what-electrode-material-should-i-use-for-resistance-spot-welding
2020-01-28T18:07:45 < PaulFertser> VDDA, I see, looks ok
2020-01-28T18:08:38 < PaulFertser> Mangy_Dog: why do you have +5V on J7?
2020-01-28T18:08:58 < Mangy_Dog> input power
2020-01-28T18:09:08 < Mangy_Dog> goes to a 3.3v reg before it goes to stm32
2020-01-28T18:09:11 < PaulFertser> OK, does your stlink not need target power?
2020-01-28T18:09:37 < Mangy_Dog> my stlink has a 5v pin
2020-01-28T18:09:56 < PaulFertser> Mangy_Dog: but it doesn't mean that it doesn't need target power for reference.
2020-01-28T18:09:57 < Mangy_Dog> and a 3
2020-01-28T18:10:27 < Mangy_Dog> ive ran my stmlink without the power pin connected at all on other projects
2020-01-28T18:10:28 < Thorn> is it that stupid china thumb drive st-link?
2020-01-28T18:10:30 < Mangy_Dog> just shareing ground
2020-01-28T18:10:38 < Mangy_Dog> thorn yep
2020-01-28T18:10:48 < PaulFertser> OK
2020-01-28T18:11:07 < Thorn> you need to connect Vdd to the Vt pin on real st-link, j-link etc. (any debugger with output buffers)
2020-01-28T18:11:08 < PaulFertser> stm32f1 needs just power to be seen via SWD.
2020-01-28T18:11:20 < kakipro> bitmask see link
2020-01-28T18:11:36 < bitmask> k
2020-01-28T18:13:38 < bitmask> I see
2020-01-28T18:14:23 < englishman> why consider stm32f103 in 2020 btw?
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2020-01-28T18:14:54 < Mangy_Dog> simpicity
2020-01-28T18:14:55 < Mangy_Dog> tbh
2020-01-28T18:16:31 < PaulFertser> The man who notified WHO about SARS: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Carlo_Urbani
2020-01-28T18:18:08 < karlp> bitmask: what's that now? 
2020-01-28T18:18:34 < bitmask> the pic? double pulse timer for spot welder
2020-01-28T18:19:00 < bitmask> I liked this one because it includes the 9 or 12v transformer that powers the board, usually you need a separate one
2020-01-28T18:20:30 < bitmask> 9v
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2020-01-28T18:23:33 < kakipro> https://www.metalsupermarkets.com/difference-between-copper-brass-bronze/
2020-01-28T18:24:31 < kakipro> I think i used silicon bronze or something
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2020-01-28T18:34:29 < Thorn> is anyone using arm gcc 9?
2020-01-28T18:38:20 < Mangy_Dog> ok thats fucking strange and leading me to think that these stm32s are fake
2020-01-28T18:38:26 < Mangy_Dog> in the same reel of chips
2020-01-28T18:38:35 < Mangy_Dog> different from factoroies
2020-01-28T18:38:42 < Mangy_Dog> some mayalsia some china
2020-01-28T18:38:47 < PaulFertser> But even fake should be accessible via SWD.
2020-01-28T18:39:54 < Mangy_Dog> or maybe these are recycled
2020-01-28T18:41:10 < Thorn> I've seen real stm32 both from Malaysia and China, but those were more modern than f1 (such as f0)
2020-01-28T18:41:51 < Mangy_Dog> yeah but mixed in the same tape reel?
2020-01-28T18:46:36 < Thorn> lol no
2020-01-28T18:46:40 < karlp> is the dongle at least known good?
2020-01-28T18:46:50 < karlp> mixed on the same tape sounds like recylcing.
2020-01-28T18:52:48 < Mangy_Dog> indeed
2020-01-28T18:53:00 < Mangy_Dog> though i just found a chort come up between 5 and 3v so likely blown those chips :/
2020-01-28T18:53:04 < Mangy_Dog> and maybe my ft810 too D:
2020-01-28T18:53:08 < Mangy_Dog> short
2020-01-28T18:56:19 < Thorn> Voronezh, Russia  https://lentaru.media.eagleplatform.com/index/player?record_id=1363414&player=new
2020-01-28T18:56:54 < Mangy_Dog> corrected short replaced the chip
2020-01-28T18:56:57 < Mangy_Dog> still cant connect :/
2020-01-28T18:57:17 < kakipro> bitmask: https://www.ebay.com/sch/i.html?_nkw=phosphor+bronze+rod&_sop=12 you could try
2020-01-28T18:58:12 < bitmask> looks a bit expensive but maybe
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2020-01-28T19:01:35 < bitmask> looks like it comes with alumina oxide copper, wonder how shitty that is
2020-01-28T19:02:27 < bitmask> https://www.aliexpress.com/item/4000325412995.html
2020-01-28T19:08:22 < Steffanx> Did you use the right pin 1 indicator Mangy_Dog? ;)
2020-01-28T19:08:44 < Steffanx> You wouldn't be the first one to fall for that one
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2020-01-28T19:10:32 < Mangy_Dog> managed to get the chip talking
2020-01-28T19:10:47 < Mangy_Dog> just ran iron over the sd card pins
2020-01-28T19:11:07 < Mangy_Dog> even if any of these pins were shorting WHY would it have killed the stm? I mean it wasnt like a power short
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2020-01-28T20:08:56 < kakipro> bitmask
2020-01-28T20:08:59 < kakipro> anything goes
2020-01-28T20:09:29 < kakipro> for hobbty use
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2020-01-28T21:02:12 < Laurenceb> Mangy_Dog: more recent stm32 has rage inducing gpio
2020-01-28T21:02:19 < Laurenceb> possible it burnt out the gpio
2020-01-28T21:08:15 < qyx> wat
2020-01-28T21:15:32 < Steffanx> Enlighten us Laurenceb
2020-01-28T21:16:07 < Laurenceb> iirc since they moved to Malaysia or whereever it is - a new fab
2020-01-28T21:16:32 < Laurenceb> the gpio seems more fragile, also the protection diodes are easy to semi burn out so they leak current
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2020-01-28T21:23:47 < Steffanx> One should properly engineer their hw
2020-01-28T21:26:24 < qyx> oh I read taht in some errata
2020-01-28T21:26:37 < aandrew> https://preview.redd.it/2jfhjrmpsid41.jpg?width=578&auto=webp&s=d3aaeb5cc211cf4b789192691aa020afb9446778
2020-01-28T21:27:01 < qyx> "the gpio esd performance is lower than expected"
2020-01-28T21:29:20 < Laurenceb> ah thanks for spotting
2020-01-28T21:29:39 < Laurenceb> yeah I managed to damage a diode with a 100n cap
2020-01-28T21:31:21 < Steffanx> heh aandrew. Its funny how the entire sports world knew that guy. i didnt.
2020-01-28T21:32:25 < Laurenceb> oh no not that shit
2020-01-28T21:32:36 < Laurenceb> I didnt even know what the sport was
2020-01-28T21:32:40 < Laurenceb> stupid muricans
2020-01-28T21:33:32 < Steffanx> Best tweet was some tweet of 2012, where one predicted the helicopter crash
2020-01-28T21:33:45 < Steffanx> Death by helicopter crash.
2020-01-28T21:34:37 < antto> if enough people talk random sh*t, in the long term it is not unlikely that one of them makes a coincidence ;P~
2020-01-28T21:34:38 < PaulFertser> It's not a helicopter, it's a coaxial flying 3-channels toy.
2020-01-28T21:35:17 < Steffanx> Party pooper PaulFertser.
2020-01-28T21:36:21 < Steffanx> Have a song to cheer yourself up a bit PaulFertser: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8TPN0x9NPuM (not clue what they are singing about... ) Does russia even know those guys?
2020-01-28T21:36:30 < Steffanx> Or are they more famous in dutchland than in russia?
2020-01-28T21:38:33 < PaulFertser> Steffanx: looks like a parody to me. But these days it's really hard to tell if something is serious or not.
2020-01-28T21:39:56 < PaulFertser> Steffanx: I'm almost sure it's a parody but I can't listen to it. I'm not into this type of pop-music.
2020-01-28T21:40:23 < Steffanx> They are russian afaik. And their older vids are pretty "russian village boys"-a like :P
2020-01-28T21:42:06 < Steffanx> PaulFertser: This is not pop-music. Certainly not in this country.
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2020-01-28T21:42:27 < PaulFertser> Steffanx: it sounds like pop-music popular in russia in the 90s.
2020-01-28T21:43:46 < Steffanx> Yeah, the "happy hardcore" from the 90s in dutchland
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2020-01-28T21:44:40 < PaulFertser> Steffanx: https://youtube.com/watch?v=_l0LVFRuHMk modern russian pop-music of other type. The chorus words are: "Listen to my advice in the MP3 format: do not wait to get old, die faster. It's a pity your parents weren't childfree. Burn in hell, in hell you burn."
2020-01-28T21:45:10 < Steffanx> PaulFertser: Can i get mad at russia too btw? Your government refused some dutch politician into russia (probably because he has comments on Putin etc. once in a while).
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2020-01-28T21:51:13 < Steffanx> Talking about MP3. Today i was decoding two mp3 files from an SD card, doing some upsampling to 48KHz and outputting it over I2S. The F7@216MHz load was ~45%. I was kinda surprised to see with data cache endabled it made it go down to 20%. I expected some improvement, but not this much. 
2020-01-28T21:51:55 < Steffanx> oh, sorry. not 45->20. but 85 to 40% :P. The other number was a single stream.
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2020-01-28T21:53:20 < Steffanx> And the decoder isnt probably very optimized for the platform (minimp3)
2020-01-28T21:55:15 < Steffanx> *probably isnt
2020-01-28T21:57:04 < PaulFertser> Steffanx: yeah, russia is doing plenty of outrageous things :(
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2020-01-28T21:59:05 < Steffanx> oh, i forgot to mention it was even someing some 5 band equalizing.
2020-01-28T21:59:19 < PaulFertser> Is MP3 still a thing? I thought OGG has superseded it.
2020-01-28T21:59:33 < Steffanx> Clients have demands..
2020-01-28T21:59:44 < Steffanx> and mp3 is still a thing.
2020-01-28T21:59:54 < PaulFertser> How do you measure CPU load btw?
2020-01-28T22:00:10 < Steffanx> oh, just using some segger tooling. (systemview)
2020-01-28T22:00:33 < PaulFertser> Is it running some RTOS and you're seeing tasks statistics?
2020-01-28T22:00:37 < Steffanx> yeah
2020-01-28T22:00:53 < Steffanx> but i will do some pin toggling measurements.
2020-01-28T22:00:59 < PaulFertser> Cool, data cache numbers are impressive indeed.
2020-01-28T22:06:26 < Steffanx> I want to verify it though. Since latest systemview told me the idle task was using 2351351337287% (or some equally large number) of the available time. Older versions made more sense. 
2020-01-28T22:06:39 < PaulFertser> What RTOS are you using?
2020-01-28T22:06:48 < PaulFertser> And how does it compare to the others you tried?
2020-01-28T22:07:07 < srk> heh cool https://github.com/lieff/minimp3/blob/master/minimp3.h
2020-01-28T22:07:35 < Steffanx> FreeRTOS it is now. Didnt really try others.
2020-01-28T22:07:39 < srk> I was like - author is probably russian
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2020-01-28T22:09:26 < Steffanx> srk: The original one was by a german
2020-01-28T22:10:49 < srk> ah, I see
2020-01-28T22:11:07 < Steffanx> but germans are crazy like that too.
2020-01-28T22:11:18 < Steffanx> or swissers. like tcth
2020-01-28T22:13:12 < PaulFertser> Steffanx: take a look at late-soviet "counter-culture" icons: https://youtube.com/watch?v=61ygUky8ykA
2020-01-28T22:13:47 < Steffanx> Heh. It doesnt even sound that bad.
2020-01-28T22:14:27 < kakipro> that must have been like elvis in there
2020-01-28T22:14:43 < Steffanx> 15 views. :D
2020-01-28T22:14:56 < kakipro> or then not
2020-01-28T22:15:19 < kakipro> nobody searches the song for nostalgy
2020-01-28T22:15:26 < Steffanx> Welcome back kakipro.
2020-01-28T22:15:51 < Steffanx> i do kakipro. alll the time, but they're not russian culture for sure.
2020-01-28T22:16:11 < kakipro> I meant the particular song
2020-01-28T22:16:29 < Steffanx> it was only uploaded a few days ago
2020-01-28T22:17:31 < srk> I've had a siemens s65 phone long time ago and everyone was like - it's too slow to mp3
2020-01-28T22:17:43 < srk> nobody told russians 
2020-01-28T22:18:31 < PaulFertser> kakipro: it's just some random output that was given by mps-youtube. This band was super-popular back then (the video is from a big stadium concert) and it is known to the present day.
2020-01-28T22:22:15 < PaulFertser> We have a graffiti wall in the Moscow centre dedicated to the band leader.
2020-01-28T22:27:18 < PaulFertser> The song is called "Changes", it has lines like "Our hearts demand changes. Our eyes demand changes. It's in our laughter, in our tears and in vein pulses. Changes, we are waiting for changes."
2020-01-28T22:28:28 < PaulFertser> But it's arteries which carry pulsing blood, not veins, so it sounds a bit odd.
2020-01-28T22:28:41 < mawk> who's learning haskell with me
2020-01-28T22:28:57 < mawk> Steffanx ?
2020-01-28T22:29:08 < Steffanx> Im not learning Haksel.
2020-01-28T22:29:11 < mawk> :(
2020-01-28T22:29:13 < mawk> why
2020-01-28T22:29:27 < Steffanx> I dont feel like it's a language for me.
2020-01-28T22:29:37 < mawk> it is one for everyone
2020-01-28T22:29:38 < mawk> especially you
2020-01-28T22:29:50 < mawk> at my work they use thousands of πs
2020-01-28T22:30:04 < mawk> it still surprizes me
2020-01-28T22:30:29 < Steffanx> They use what?
2020-01-28T22:30:41 < mawk> pis
2020-01-28T22:30:46 < mawk> raspberry pis
2020-01-28T22:31:19 < specing> teach old man Steffanx a haskell :P
2020-01-28T22:31:28 < mawk> lol
2020-01-28T22:31:59 < Steffanx> No, ADA mate.
2020-01-28T22:32:27 < specing> We know, Steffanx, you have full coverage under the Americans With Disabilities Act
2020-01-28T22:32:36 < mawk> lol
2020-01-28T22:32:40 < Steffanx> Fuck yankees.
2020-01-28T22:36:27 < Steffanx> Hows your haksell specing?
2020-01-28T22:37:07 < specing> Steffanx: well, it first got hakked, then it got sold
2020-01-28T22:37:12 < specing> much as the name implies
2020-01-28T22:37:18 < PaulFertser> mawk: are you approaching haskell from your math background or rather from some practical needs and "learning by example"?
2020-01-28T22:37:38 < mawk> I wish I did it from the maths background PaulFertser 
2020-01-28T22:37:43 < mawk> but I did not find satisfying material
2020-01-28T22:37:46 < mawk> do you have some ?
2020-01-28T22:38:42 < mawk> I want to learn it for mathz and algorithmz
2020-01-28T22:40:05 < srk> mawk: https://wiki.base48.cz/Haskell
2020-01-28T22:40:17 < mawk> czech delicacies
2020-01-28T22:40:21 < mawk> thanks
2020-01-28T22:40:32 < PaulFertser> mawk: https://www.haskell.org/haskellwiki/Category_theory I guess is obvious, and https://bartoszmilewski.com/2014/10/28/category-theory-for-programmers-the-preface/ is well-known too, I guess you can grasp it all pretty fast if you already have that math background.
2020-01-28T22:42:23 < PaulFertser> Heh, the czech link has just the same set of articles regarding category theory. It seems like to those who study category theory at uni it's all self-evident and they do not need any articles :)
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2020-01-28T22:43:23 < mawk> category theory is the thing nicknamed "abstract nonsense" by non-category theorists
2020-01-28T22:44:29 < srk> :) I don't find it that useful in practice, still haven't finished Milewskis course
2020-01-28T22:44:32 < PaulFertser> https://www.amazon.co.uk/Purely-Functional-Data-Structures-Okasaki/dp/0521663504 classics for algoritmz
2020-01-28T22:44:50 < srk> but it depends on what you want to do with the language as well
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2020-01-28T22:52:48 < tcth> hi
2020-01-28T22:54:33 < karlp> PaulFertser: why did you need to put quotes around "counter-culture" for kino?
2020-01-28T22:54:51 < PaulFertser> karlp: well, it became mainstream by that time
2020-01-28T22:55:40 < karlp> "everything was cooler when only I knew aabout it" ?
2020-01-28T22:57:01 < karlp> reminds me of this: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YLPNe1rscJs ;)
2020-01-28T22:58:27 < PaulFertser> karlp: hm, thinking about it more, I probably should have typed ~counter-culture . I do not really like this word and so I guess I just didn't want to use it literally, but I wanted to somehow make it clear it wasn't officially endorsed by the soviet state.
2020-01-28T22:59:51 < mawk> say it in french then, you will sound cooler
2020-01-28T22:59:54 < mawk> contre-culture
2020-01-28T23:00:43 < PaulFertser> I guess french people are offended by how russians pronounce the "r" sound so I'd refrain.
2020-01-28T23:01:20 < karlp> heh, one of the first russian language cds I bought was actually labelled in french, la vol arrette or something.
2020-01-28T23:01:30 < Thorn> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QQNboIWNdOQ
2020-01-28T23:01:31 < karlp> guy on the cover looked plausibly french.
2020-01-28T23:01:42 < karlp> listened and was like... umm, not sure this is frnech.
2020-01-28T23:01:50 < karlp> but sounded great so kept it :)
2020-01-28T23:02:27 < karlp> https://www.discogs.com/Vladimir-Vissotski-Le-Vol-Arr%C3%AAt%C3%A9-/master/184531
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2020-01-28T23:04:52 < PaulFertser> karlp: that's one of the Soviet super-stars, yes. He was married to a relatively famous French actress, so this "french" CD is not surprising.
2020-01-28T23:05:47 < qyx> ussian superstar reminds me of kate melody
2020-01-28T23:06:06 < qyx> or what she was
2020-01-28T23:08:56 < karlp> PaulFertser: yeah, I learnt more abotu him later, even visited (one of?) his statues in moscow iirc,
2020-01-28T23:09:02 < karlp> don'tthink he had one in spb
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2020-01-28T23:12:56 < PaulFertser> BTW, I can't think of any other famous USSR artist that died from complictions related to opiate addiction.
2020-01-28T23:15:17 < qyx> what do they die of?
2020-01-28T23:16:15 < karlp> alcolhol related healt deterioration
2020-01-28T23:16:27 < karlp> or it was just kept quiet?
2020-01-28T23:16:43  * karlp is just being snarky now, sorry
2020-01-28T23:16:45 < qyx> putin induced trauma
2020-01-28T23:17:05 < karlp> putin moved the tree to kill viktor tsoi!
2020-01-28T23:18:48 < PaulFertser> karlp: the bus
2020-01-28T23:19:04 < karlp> theyd ie of the bus?
2020-01-28T23:19:06 < catphish> can i die from opiates?
2020-01-28T23:19:12 < karlp> didn't viktor tsoi crash his car into a tree?
2020-01-28T23:19:47 < catphish> lots of people do that, it's not usually fatal
2020-01-28T23:21:12 < PaulFertser> karlp: he rear-ended a bus iirc. Most probably fell asleep while driving early in the morning.
2020-01-28T23:21:51 < karlp> indeed. mixed up the story
2020-01-28T23:22:02 < karlp> still, putin put his fingers on the wheel to turn him into the oncoming traffic!
2020-01-28T23:22:38 < PaulFertser> Hm, the wiki says it was a heads-on collision but the bus was involved nyway.
2020-01-28T23:24:04 < mawk> le vol arrêté
2020-01-28T23:24:17 < mawk> vol is theft, or flight
2020-01-28T23:24:36 < mawk> arrêté is break, stop, halt
2020-01-28T23:25:31 < Thorn> musics https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iqzVrEa_MdQ
2020-01-28T23:26:15 < karlp> I wonder why we never went to the tsoi wall when we visited moscow...
2020-01-28T23:28:28 < PaulFertser> mawk: yes, "an aborted flight"
2020-01-28T23:29:31 < catphish> after spending 2 months trying to choose a new laptop, i realised all the broken parts of mine are modular and i can just repair it
2020-01-28T23:30:59 < specing> catphish: ebay.com used thinkpad done
2020-01-28T23:31:20 < catphish> well i was going to buy a new thinkpad
2020-01-28T23:31:27 < catphish> but my xps15 is surprisingly modular
2020-01-28T23:32:04 < catphish> the touchpad, DC jack and headphone amplifier are broken, but those are all replaceable
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2020-01-28T23:54:31 < Thorn> Russian ministry of health says coronavirus mostly infects men aged 35 - 50
2020-01-28T23:55:05 < specing> is that the protesting age?
2020-01-28T23:55:07 < Thorn> regardless of race
2020-01-28T23:55:09 < specing> :P
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--- Day changed Wed Jan 29 2020
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2020-01-29T00:13:52 < Cracki> i would need to see some details on the corpses so far
2020-01-29T00:14:26 < Cracki> why would it not kill frail people more easily than men near their prime
2020-01-29T00:14:57 < BrainDamage> infect != kill
2020-01-29T00:15:27 < BrainDamage> also if you want to see a weird virus infection, look at ww1's flu
2020-01-29T00:15:31 < Cracki> good point
2020-01-29T00:15:35 < BrainDamage> that one had peak mortality for men in their prime
2020-01-29T00:19:22 < karlp> ww1 flu == "spanish flu" ? or something else?
2020-01-29T00:20:14 < BrainDamage> yes
2020-01-29T00:22:14 < karlp> kkinda like what wiki says of "rereviewing journals in 2007, likely to just be overcrowded and shitty conditions led to them dying _afterwards" rather than the virus itself being better at killing young adults
2020-01-29T00:22:23 < karlp> but hey, that's 2020, I get to pick my own facts :)
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2020-01-29T00:59:43 < doomba> it kind of makes sense that they'd start with a virus that takes out fighting aged males
2020-01-29T01:00:08 < doomba> if that is true of coronavirus, then it's obvious if you want to survive infection, just eat lots of soy.
2020-01-29T01:00:55 < doomba> once the virus determines your estrogen levels are high enough, it assumes you're one of the docile bootlicker types, and leaves you for a more suitable hots.
2020-01-29T01:00:58 < doomba> *host
2020-01-29T01:06:02 < BrainDamage> you're confusing correlation with causation
2020-01-29T01:06:24 < BrainDamage> mostly infected doesn't mean that the virus inhabits better male bodies necessarily
2020-01-29T01:06:47 < BrainDamage> it could be that the average male activity makes you more prone to risk contracting the disease
2020-01-29T01:13:32 < Cracki> so... bed rest?
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2020-01-29T01:13:59 < Cracki> and some nice bat soup?
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2020-01-29T01:35:26 < Laurenceb> https://knowyourmeme.com/photos/1139386-my-wifes-son
2020-01-29T01:35:33 < Laurenceb> >male bodies
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2020-01-29T03:13:17 < aandrew> BrainDamage: it's my understanding that that flu tended to drive the immune system into overdrive, which is why it tended to be worse for people with healthy immune systems
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2020-01-29T04:19:30 < doomba> i ordered a cmsis-dap and a pinetime watch
2020-01-29T04:19:48 < doomba> and was about to order jlcpcb shit and some lcsc shit.... and now that's all.... not happening.
2020-01-29T04:20:01 < doomba> pine64 notified that they can't ship.
2020-01-29T04:20:31 < doomba> and since this is bill's stupid patented doomsday virus, i'll probably never see these items.
2020-01-29T04:21:00 < doomba> and trump is about to be impeached and that will tank the economy, so it's looking like i'll have to move my cluster into my van and power it from solar.
2020-01-29T04:21:16 < doomba> that means i need to re-design the backplane for a 3rd time
2020-01-29T04:22:10 < doomba> plus oshpark.com is prolly gonna be like $500 for a 2-layer board because all the MAKE:Rs will be flooding the system with demand since their slave workers in china are all under quarantine
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2020-01-29T05:05:41 < englishman> doomba are you the one that got that $200 arm laptop
2020-01-29T05:05:55 < englishman> did you see that $200 walmart laptop that is superior in literally every way and also PINK
2020-01-29T05:10:28 < englishman> https://www.cnx-software.com/2020/01/24/210-motile-performance-laptop-is-powered-by-amd-ryzen-3-3200u-processor/
2020-01-29T05:14:14 < doomba> hah that's awesome
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2020-01-29T05:53:24 < aandrew> englishman: that's crazy. 1080 screen, drop 16G in it... tha'ts a laptop you can take to china and throw out afterward
2020-01-29T06:03:20 < Laurenceb> >the GOLON heights
2020-01-29T06:03:23 < Laurenceb> keeek Drumpf
2020-01-29T06:09:27 < Laurenceb> >hurtkwake…..bombaclaaaaaat……bloooodclaat
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2020-01-29T06:40:00 < upgrdman> stm pros: why enable pull up or pull down when using a gpio as a push pull output?
2020-01-29T06:40:39 < Ultrasauce> sometimes you just gotta waste a little extra current
2020-01-29T06:41:57 < englishman> can you even do that
2020-01-29T06:42:09 < upgrdman> yes
2020-01-29T06:42:23 < upgrdman> its listen as a feature even
2020-01-29T06:42:31 < upgrdman> stm32f469 rm
2020-01-29T06:43:06 < englishman> oh yeah its just old f1 era stuff where you cant
2020-01-29T06:43:34 < englishman> i guess
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2020-01-29T07:00:06 < dongs> how does that even work
2020-01-29T07:00:14 < dongs> its pushpull so isnt it always up or down
2020-01-29T07:01:09 < dongs> • Output states: push-pull or open drain + pull-up/down
2020-01-29T07:01:15 < dongs> "or" opendrain + pullup/down
2020-01-29T07:01:58 < dongs> how long until STM supports any pin muxing like silabs or nrf shit
2020-01-29T07:02:05 < dongs> its not THAT hard to do is it
2020-01-29T07:02:50 < englishman> lots more metallization layers i guess
2020-01-29T07:03:13 < englishman> better get PSOC
2020-01-29T07:04:43 < upgrdman> dongs: "GP output PP
2020-01-29T07:04:43 < upgrdman> , GP output PP + PU
2020-01-29T07:04:44 < upgrdman> , GP output PP + PD"
2020-01-29T07:04:58 < dongs> where is this? some CUBEMX shit?
2020-01-29T07:05:00 < englishman> yeah its literally in G4 refman as a feature
2020-01-29T07:05:09 < dongs> oic port bit
2020-01-29T07:05:24 < upgrdman> from rm0386 pg 199
2020-01-29T07:05:34 < dongs> Ya im thre
2020-01-29T07:05:35 < dongs> no idea
2020-01-29T07:05:40 < upgrdman> k
2020-01-29T07:44:26 < aandrew> yeah I don't understand why you'd want to have a pullup/down on a push-pull pin
2020-01-29T07:45:14 < aandrew> half the time it's useless, the other half it's just burning power
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2020-01-29T09:16:58 < jpa-> doomba: so do you have some actual information on jlcpcb having production/shipping trouble, or is that just your guess?
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2020-01-29T10:16:37 < dongs> so what rate does SysTick->VAL run at/
2020-01-29T10:16:39 < dongs> HCLK?
2020-01-29T10:18:08 < dongs> hm its a decrementing counter
2020-01-29T10:18:15 < dongs> and yeah at hclk
2020-01-29T10:18:16 < dongs> hm
2020-01-29T10:21:06 < jpa-> HCLK on most stm32's yeah
2020-01-29T10:21:14 < jpa-> i think there may be some where it is HCLK/8
2020-01-29T10:22:17 < dongs> so i cant really use that for my timer dispatch thing then
2020-01-29T10:22:19 < jpa-> and on STM32H743, it is HCLK but errata says that it's a bug and they meant to make it HCLK/8
2020-01-29T10:22:29 < dongs> nice
2020-01-29T10:22:41 < dongs> H7 is the shit running at like 400+mhz right
2020-01-29T10:22:57 < jpa-> systick for timer dispatch is mostly ruined by how you cannot change the interval without missing cycles
2020-01-29T10:23:03 < jpa-> yeah
2020-01-29T10:23:21 < dongs> no i jsut need a free-running timer to save/get curent/calc delta
2020-01-29T10:23:30 < dongs> for sorting upcoming timer events
2020-01-29T10:23:49 < dongs> on M3 and shit i usually use cyccnt but now such thing on m0
2020-01-29T10:24:01 < dongs> and this systick shit is only 24bit and downcounter
2020-01-29T10:26:07 < dongs> and and its just too fast.
2020-01-29T10:26:19 < dongs> even if I did solve the shit i can only set stuff for like 2.5 seconds at 48mhz
2020-01-29T10:26:32 < dongs> or else i need to keep track of overflow and shit
2020-01-29T10:29:35 < jpa-> yeah, and even that gets a bit annoying with systick as COUNTFLAG auto-clears when you read the status register
2020-01-29T10:42:59 < dongs> i already had TIM2 for delay counting, ill jsut improvise with that
2020-01-29T10:45:18 < Thorn> how do you display a complete reddit thread without "view entire dicsussion" and "continue this thread" bullshit?
2020-01-29T10:52:39 < dongs> you dont
2020-01-29T10:54:09 < jpa-> that would mean less ad impressions
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2020-01-29T11:53:12 < Cracki> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z0v3zFM5_oQ
2020-01-29T12:05:45 < karlp> my understanding of the push pull vs up/downs is that they're just unrelated.  you _can_ burn power and have the pulls enabled if youi're using it in push pull, but to me the reason for them is so that you can have a reliable pin state when you're switching modes from out to in for instance.
2020-01-29T12:07:18 < karlp> systick is at hclk, with a single bit for "implementation defined alternative clock source" and most stm32s have that bitto mean hclk/8. ti and sam stuff do different things iirc.
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2020-01-29T12:27:00 < karlp> Ithink I need to go and sniff some solder fumes or something so that I can understand javascript more
2020-01-29T12:28:50 < karlp> TIL that "thenable" is a word.
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2020-01-29T13:43:08 < Thorn> >DSLogic U2Basic
2020-01-29T13:57:29 < doomba> jpa-: i have actual information from other companies who have said they are unable to ship because the chinese gov has halted business processes until a further notice
2020-01-29T13:58:38 < doomba> it would be a fair assumption that due to corruption, the bigger companies are exempt from this stuff.
2020-01-29T13:58:50 < doomba> like apple, and all the companies/sweatshops walmart gets their stuff from
2020-01-29T13:58:52 < doomba> amazon
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2020-01-29T13:59:58 < doomba> he lcsc sweatshops are located in isolation too.
2020-01-29T14:00:06 < doomba> so if jlcpcb is still up and running, it should be safe
2020-01-29T14:00:57 < qyx> so jlcpcb is not delobering?
2020-01-29T14:01:08 < qyx> delivering
2020-01-29T14:01:22 < jadew> wait, is china on shutdown?
2020-01-29T14:01:36 < jadew> what about my shit?
2020-01-29T14:01:42 < jadew> hope they're making it
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2020-01-29T14:02:12 < con3> wait what
2020-01-29T14:02:34 < jadew> con3, welcome to the plague
2020-01-29T14:02:36 < jadew> act 1
2020-01-29T14:03:10  * con3 licks everyone
2020-01-29T14:06:07 < karlp> chinese embassy here called all hardware stores and requested all stock of masks be sent directly to china.
2020-01-29T14:06:34 < karlp> my sister in law bought some in paranoia a few days ago, and news last night was that there's none left for sale here :)
2020-01-29T14:07:11 < PaulFertser> For the reference, https://www.who.int/docs/default-source/coronaviruse/clinical-management-of-novel-cov.pdf?sfvrsn=bc7da517_4&download=true
2020-01-29T14:09:44 < jadew> karlp, same situation here
2020-01-29T14:13:00 < jadew> karlp, sounds to me like the chinese gvt doesn't want you to have masks
2020-01-29T14:17:54 < PaulFertser> No masks needed: https://www.who.int/news-room/detail/28-01-2020-who-china-leaders-discuss-next-steps-in-battle-against-coronavirus-outbreak
2020-01-29T14:18:05 < PaulFertser> But quite a long table
2020-01-29T14:18:18 < jadew> that's why they have the microphones
2020-01-29T14:18:31 < jadew> they speak directly into each other's ear
2020-01-29T14:28:57 < doomba> not the chinese gov
2020-01-29T14:29:05 < doomba> this is all part of Bill's plan!
2020-01-29T14:29:17 < doomba> georgia guide stones
2020-01-29T14:29:30 < doomba> good thing we're all elysium-class bootlickers who are exempt from the culling, rite?
2020-01-29T14:30:51 < doomba> imagine though if they released this thing in the US instead of china?
2020-01-29T14:31:23 < doomba> USA wouldn't be able to quarantine like china is supposedly doing.
2020-01-29T14:31:44 < doomba> and it would be a full scale global pandemic with 1000's of deaths already.
2020-01-29T14:32:22 < Thorn> >Chinese students of the Far Eastern University (Vladivostok) will be segregated in a separate dorm
2020-01-29T14:32:28 < doomba> at least with it being contained in china, we get to sit in suspense for weeks to months while the media cashes in on the fearporn clicks before they let it loose and cull the herd.
2020-01-29T14:35:24 < englishman> >USA wouldn't be able to quarantine
2020-01-29T14:35:29 < englishman> just release fortnite 2
2020-01-29T14:36:35 < doomba> ^
2020-01-29T14:37:20 < doomba> you're right. if they want to quarantine the USA, just release fortnite 2 and raise gas prices to $10/gal
2020-01-29T14:37:43 < doomba> and then subsidize dominos pizza
2020-01-29T14:38:48 < englishman> with robot delivery
2020-01-29T14:39:14 < englishman> you're right tho, when USA does a plague it has to be 20x bigger than the last one because fuck yeah USA
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2020-01-29T15:10:22 < karlp> huh, shipping consoldiator just emailed me to say, "yeahhhhh, you aint gettin no packages from china for a while, tentativel restart feb 10"
2020-01-29T15:12:44 < doomba> perfect storm eh?
2020-01-29T15:13:13 < doomba> you realize the big industrialist progressives in murica are about to set off a chain reaction in the economy
2020-01-29T15:13:26 < doomba> and crash the whole show right as we're going through a pandemic
2020-01-29T15:13:44 < doomba> gotta get the population down to a more managable level, per greta's order
2020-01-29T15:14:03 < karlp> the tinhat rate seems to be getting higher and higher here...
2020-01-29T15:17:05 < grindhold> greta iz lizrd! *scnr*
2020-01-29T15:17:36 < grindhold> wonder if the sensors i ordered are also affected :|
2020-01-29T15:18:06 < englishman> you mean i cant buy a new macbook for 10 days? omg economy
2020-01-29T15:19:32 < catphish> looking forward to my brexit in 2 days
2020-01-29T15:20:03 < catphish> freedom from the european oppressors
2020-01-29T15:21:37  * karlp waits for argentina to retake the falklands.
2020-01-29T15:22:57 < Thorn> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UiDe6Hm5dtA
2020-01-29T15:26:50 < Thorn> T - 43 min https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1KmBDCiL7MU   live https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J6Lai4wtf34
2020-01-29T15:27:32 < Thorn> >weather is 80% favorable
2020-01-29T15:55:33 < Thorn> stream is live
2020-01-29T15:58:23 < englishman> ty
2020-01-29T16:11:40 < englishman> lol what is that junk sliding aroun
2020-01-29T16:11:41 < englishman> d
2020-01-29T16:15:21 < dongs> Thorn: plz never link stream stealing shit
2020-01-29T16:15:42 < dongs> i clicked the stream stealing faggot and almost missed hte landing
2020-01-29T16:15:43 < Thorn> what
2020-01-29T16:15:52 < Thorn> that guy does excellent commentary
2020-01-29T16:16:03 < Thorn> and has been doing it for several months
2020-01-29T16:16:06 < englishman> the last thing you want to hear when watching a cool spacex stream is HEY YOUTUBERS PLZ LIKE SUBSCRIBE
2020-01-29T16:16:08 < dongs> i dont care
2020-01-29T16:16:10 < dongs> yeah
2020-01-29T16:16:12 < dongs> fuck that shit
2020-01-29T16:17:05 < Steffanx> Awh.
2020-01-29T16:17:26 < Steffanx> I didnt even hear it. Guess my shit filter is better than yours
2020-01-29T16:17:26 < srk> release teh internetz!!
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2020-01-29T16:48:17 < Thorn> they caught the fairing
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2020-01-29T17:08:28 < Thorn> payload release
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2020-01-29T18:20:52 < Cracki> >i never knew you could make filament of hepatitis c
2020-01-29T18:20:59 < Cracki> wat am i reading
2020-01-29T18:21:42 < Cracki> yeah the parachute of that fairing just started crumpling in the video. would have been nice to see the fairing itself drop into the net
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2020-01-29T18:38:25 < specing> Can't they have the fairing stay attached to a stage?
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2020-01-29T19:28:57 < Cracki> the fairing is second stage, second stage is trash anyway
2020-01-29T19:29:15 < Cracki> they jettison it because the payload is under it... so they have to jettison it.
2020-01-29T19:30:11 < Cracki> just letting it burn up would be wasteful. the materials apparently cost more than trying to catch it
2020-01-29T19:32:41 < mawk> bacteries love to make filaments and films
2020-01-29T19:32:48 < mawk> it's pretty gross
2020-01-29T19:33:45 < Cracki> bouncy house! https://hackaday.com/2018/05/23/spacexs-next-giant-leap-second-stage-recovery/
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2020-01-29T19:39:05 < Laurenceb> with Britain out of the eu we can finally welcome our Pakistani taxi drivers here in Rotherham without restrictions
2020-01-29T19:41:25 < Laurenceb> now every 12 year old can get a sex education
2020-01-29T19:47:08 < Cracki> I'm not sure if that's sarcasm
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2020-01-29T20:40:38 < jadew> Cracki, I fixed the subtitles
2020-01-29T20:40:47 < jadew> you were right, they were absolute crap
2020-01-29T20:40:59 < Cracki> møøse
2020-01-29T20:41:24 < Cracki> majestik møøse
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2020-01-29T20:42:36 < Cracki> set this as swedish subtitles :3 https://www.imdb.com/title/tt0071853/crazycredits
2020-01-29T20:48:09 < jadew> jeez, 2000 more cases were confirmed since I looked at that graph a couple of hours ago
2020-01-29T20:48:49 < jadew> more are recovering tho, which is a good sign
2020-01-29T20:49:01 < jadew> they're getting better so they can make my boards
2020-01-29T20:49:28 -!- ka6sox is now known as zz_ka6sox
2020-01-29T20:55:24 -!- zz_ka6sox is now known as ka6sox
2020-01-29T21:01:42 < Cracki> this arcgis link is absolute rubbish. hardly ever gets updated, lacks timestamps of every datum, ...
2020-01-29T21:02:10 < Cracki> oh and mortality is still same. 132 dead vs 112 recovered, looks like 60%
2020-01-29T21:02:18 < Cracki> 55*
2020-01-29T21:03:15 < Cracki> I can't trust their "last updated" claim when they don't give a source. it could be some random news article where they rehash numbers from days ago
2020-01-29T21:05:36 < Cracki> cnn, the dumbasses, calculate current deaths over current total cases. that's useless because the dice haven't fallen on most of those cases.
2020-01-29T21:16:19 < mawk> many cases in france
2020-01-29T21:16:27 < mawk> compared to the rest of the world
2020-01-29T21:16:52 < mawk> because paris is an aeroportuary hub yes, but also because the only measure the french government took was to put up some signs in the airport
2020-01-29T21:17:01 < mawk> "if you feel fevery call 112"
2020-01-29T21:17:12 < mawk> no screening, not even on flights direct from Wuhan
2020-01-29T21:17:34 < mawk> some chinese woman bragged about being sick and passing the french airport on wechat
2020-01-29T21:17:44 < Cracki> -.-
2020-01-29T21:17:47 < mawk> thanks to the chinese generalized surveillance though the chinese governement heard her and told our police
2020-01-29T21:18:05 < Cracki> thank you chinese surveillance
2020-01-29T21:18:10 < mawk> >foreign dictatorship preventing epidemy in france
2020-01-29T21:18:11 < mawk> yeah
2020-01-29T21:18:23 < Cracki> "trust" or not, but always verify
2020-01-29T21:18:37 < qyx> Cracki: estimated mortality seems to be about 3%
2020-01-29T21:18:54 < Cracki> I'll still hold my breath if it's all the same to you
2020-01-29T21:18:55 < qyx> idk how do they estimate it
2020-01-29T21:19:06 < Cracki> they estimate (deaths) / (total cases)
2020-01-29T21:19:16 < qyx> hm
2020-01-29T21:19:26 < Cracki> before the people even had a chance to keel over
2020-01-29T21:19:45 < Cracki> what you can do ATM is (deaths) / (deaths + recoveries)
2020-01-29T21:19:47 < qyx> aha
2020-01-29T21:20:06 < mawk> what is keel ?
2020-01-29T21:20:07 < Cracki> and add in those that died or recovered, while the rest is still undecided
2020-01-29T21:20:17 < Cracki> boat does belly flop
2020-01-29T21:20:19 < Cracki> keel over
2020-01-29T21:20:21 < mawk> ah
2020-01-29T21:20:36 < Cracki> hooves to the sky
2020-01-29T21:20:39 < Cracki> ex-parrot
2020-01-29T21:20:57 < Cracki> pushing daisies
2020-01-29T21:21:02 < Cracki> blowing in the wind
2020-01-29T21:21:12 < Cracki> feeding the fishes
2020-01-29T21:21:15 < mawk> eating grass by the roots
2020-01-29T21:24:00 < Cracki> so I talked to a dude with an open thesis. it's a nice little thesis (honestly more like a course project), a joke of a "thesis" really, but I can't remember having been that blunt. dude is still butthurt that I would dare think it's a joke.
2020-01-29T21:24:35 < Cracki> can I make a butthurt pussy see that he's a butthurt pussy and stop being butthurt and start facing the fact that his open thesis is a joke?
2020-01-29T21:25:12 < mawk> lol
2020-01-29T21:25:21 < Cracki> or do I trash talk about without naming names instead
2020-01-29T21:26:24 < Cracki> he had the audacity to criticize that someone would be more interested in finishing a thesis and course of study in general than working on his subject
2020-01-29T21:26:52 < mawk> what is an open thesis ?
2020-01-29T21:27:13 < Cracki> like... sure, the subject isn't boring, but it's not challenging either, and frankly what the fuck is he thinking? of course this shit is only done to get a degree
2020-01-29T21:27:27 < mawk> what is the subject ?
2020-01-29T21:27:27 < Cracki> a thesis topic they put up and wait for people to wanna work on
2020-01-29T21:27:32 < mawk> ah
2020-01-29T21:27:33 < mawk> lol
2020-01-29T21:27:36 < mawk> like last chance subject ?
2020-01-29T21:27:37 < Cracki> have you heard of Moodle?
2020-01-29T21:27:37 < mawk> for dummies
2020-01-29T21:27:41 < Cracki> the online course thingy
2020-01-29T21:27:50 < mawk> no, but I see the kind 
2020-01-29T21:28:01 < mawk> >Moodle is opensourcesoftware voor elektronische leeromgevingen.
2020-01-29T21:28:05 < mawk> google thinks I'm a dutchie now
2020-01-29T21:28:08 < Cracki> nothing last-chance about it, it's one of many topics they're willing to supervise
2020-01-29T21:28:14 < Cracki> congrats
2020-01-29T21:28:26 < mawk> I mean last chance for people not able to find a subject and a supervisor
2020-01-29T21:28:30 < Cracki> anyway, you can make ppl solve tasks in moodle, and then they get points and grades
2020-01-29T21:28:43 < mawk> I see
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2020-01-29T21:29:06 < Cracki> but when you want people to solve some algorithm with a bunch of steps, all you have is one <textarea>
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2020-01-29T21:29:37 < Cracki> moodle has multiple choice and exact match on entered string and likely also numeric match with tolerance
2020-01-29T21:30:06 < mawk> yes
2020-01-29T21:30:18 < Cracki> but when your task is to run some algorithm to completion, let's say dijkstra, how do you enter those steps so they're AUTOMATICALLY gradable?
2020-01-29T21:30:30 < Cracki> right now a meatbag has to make sense of these text blobs people type in there
2020-01-29T21:30:36 < mawk> lol
2020-01-29T21:30:58 < mawk> writing the answer in a real programmation language would help immensely
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2020-01-29T21:31:07 < Cracki> obvious solution: make a moodle question type that presents you with some table widget and some defined headers for various variables relevant to the algorithm
2020-01-29T21:31:31 < mawk> yes that too
2020-01-29T21:31:32 < Cracki> then, automatic grading would have to check that every step follows from the previous one, and that the result is indeed complete
2020-01-29T21:31:32 < mawk> but meh
2020-01-29T21:31:38 < mawk> some algorithms are better expressed as recursive
2020-01-29T21:31:45 < mawk> how do you do that with tables
2020-01-29T21:31:59 < mawk> or I say recursive but it could be anything comple
2020-01-29T21:32:00 < mawk> x
2020-01-29T21:32:11 < Cracki> or... if there's an error in one step, you could deduct points there but allow for it, so the whole solution isn't dismissed entirely
2020-01-29T21:32:17 < mawk> yes
2020-01-29T21:32:28 < Cracki> recursive? uh hm well, tree thingy then
2020-01-29T21:32:35 < Cracki> something that gives structured input
2020-01-29T21:32:42 < Cracki> so the answer is machine-readable
2020-01-29T21:32:48 < mawk> yes
2020-01-29T21:33:10 < Cracki> let's say we have binary trees, why not put up an interactive tree you can do your zigzags and your rotations on?
2020-01-29T21:33:22 < mawk> yeah
2020-01-29T21:33:39 < mawk> it's a tricky topic
2020-01-29T21:33:40 < Cracki> that's easier than redrawing almost the whole tree for every step, while the bit that changed isn't immediately obvious
2020-01-29T21:33:47 < mawk> to find something that both machines and humans like
2020-01-29T21:34:11 < Cracki> basically, think of an algorithm you wanna grade, and all you need is a decent presentation people can enter their solution with
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2020-01-29T21:34:34 < bitmask> noice, this 2 awg wire just fits
2020-01-29T21:35:37 < Cracki> here's the kicker: the open "master's thesis" literally was on _one_ algorithm, convex hull over some data bases problem. you have rules like A -> BC, CD -> EF, ... and starting from some singleton set, include elements that follow from those rules
2020-01-29T21:35:47 < Cracki> trivial to write a checking/grading code for
2020-01-29T21:36:01 < Cracki> bitmask, 2 awg is thicc what are you induction-melting?
2020-01-29T21:36:25 < bitmask> just for a spot welder
2020-01-29T21:37:20 < mawk> I guess yes Cracki 
2020-01-29T21:37:23 < Cracki> ... the goal of that thesis would be to do a user study (user being teachers and students) to see how they like the structured input scheme, if they perform better, etc..
2020-01-29T21:38:22 < Cracki> and it's been open since july... and he had the ovaries to claim that someone else also applied and was a better fit
2020-01-29T21:39:25 < mawk> the thesis is just to do a study ?
2020-01-29T21:39:33 < mawk> like sociology thesis or something
2020-01-29T21:39:38 < Cracki> what I have currently for a "thesis" is an open question even to the advisor (awesome!) so depending on what I find during lit research it could go poof still
2020-01-29T21:39:51 < Cracki> I mean final thesis
2020-01-29T21:40:15 < Cracki> one semester worth of work, writeup of a moderate double digit page count
2020-01-29T21:40:23 < mawk> well thesis ought to be open questions for me yes
2020-01-29T21:40:40 < Cracki> well...
2020-01-29T21:41:03 < Cracki> there are open questions such as "do students perform better when they use structured input vs textarea?"
2020-01-29T21:41:09 < mawk> lol
2020-01-29T21:41:50 < Cracki> but not open questions like "is there research that says 'this is solvable for special cases' or did someone already prove that 'you need these formalisms to decide this in all but the most trivial cases'"
2020-01-29T21:42:38 < Cracki> because that kind would mean either there's nothing left to do, or what's left _heavily_ depends on being immersed in the subject (which I'm not in this case) and coming up with a critical idea
2020-01-29T21:42:52 < mawk> yes
2020-01-29T21:43:14 < mawk> well you'd find another subject if it's already been worked on I gues
2020-01-29T21:43:17 < mawk> s
2020-01-29T21:43:47 < Cracki> I'll keep looking. I might have to keep look anyway, if it goes poof
2020-01-29T21:44:27 < Cracki> I was honestly not prepared for someone who got their master of computer science for writing some PHP and doing a user study
2020-01-29T21:44:38 < Cracki> not at this institution anyway. elsewhere maybe.
2020-01-29T21:45:39 < mawk> lol
2020-01-29T21:45:46 < Cracki> half tempted to spend the weekend just writing such a fucking plugin, putting it under a license that forbids the fuckwit from using it, and sending it to his professor
2020-01-29T21:46:47 < mawk> in a language he can't read
2020-01-29T21:48:51 < Cracki> did I mention he was bothered by my knowing python. somehow that would be bad when I need to write php
2020-01-29T21:49:39 < mawk> php is a real language for real men, python is a toy
2020-01-29T21:50:37 < Cracki> I looked up what happened in php world in the last few years. nothing surprising.
2020-01-29T21:50:48 < mawk> php improved greatly with php 5
2020-01-29T21:50:59 < mawk> but if you see the motivations of the original authors of php you wouldn't want to use it
2020-01-29T21:51:19 < mawk> basically "this is a shit language I made, nobody should use it, I know nothing about computer science, I just wanted an hypertext preprocessor"
2020-01-29T21:51:19 < Cracki> so what if they wanted to make their own furry web page
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2020-01-29T21:52:58 < Cracki> it fixed some stuff and added some stuff to make it less painful to use but it doesn't have anything fancy and unique I don't understand yet. it's all expected.
2020-01-29T21:53:10 < mawk> yeah
2020-01-29T21:53:15 < mawk> even javascript is more mysterious
2020-01-29T21:53:19 < mawk> with its prototypes
2020-01-29T21:53:32 < Cracki> oh, php doesn't need array(...) anymore, you can do [...]
2020-01-29T21:53:58 < mawk> lol
2020-01-29T21:54:00 < mawk> great victory
2020-01-29T21:54:01 < Cracki> and they seem to have fixed some syntax that prohibited you from saying somefunc(...)[$index]
2020-01-29T21:54:11 < Cracki> it now seems to be permitted
2020-01-29T21:54:29 < mawk> lol
2020-01-29T21:54:35 < mawk> sounds like C++'s >> issue
2020-01-29T21:54:42 < Cracki> it's a weird wart but not something I should write often anyway
2020-01-29T21:54:44 < mawk> templ<templ<stuff>>
2020-01-29T21:54:48 < Cracki> heheh
2020-01-29T21:55:52 < Cracki> shit I'm actually considering setting up a dumb little moodle on my dumb little hosted server
2020-01-29T21:56:46 < Cracki> his immediate professor is a cool dude from all I hear. I wonder how he'd react. (the institute is a subgroup of a "real" institute with its own professor)
2020-01-29T21:59:29 < aandrew> ... moodle?
2020-01-29T21:59:31 < mawk> he will force the guy to cite you in his thesis
2020-01-29T22:00:12 < Cracki> I think... he felt threatened that I would implement half his phd thesis
2020-01-29T22:00:37 < Cracki> I talked about assistance features such as autocompletion. he said he already has a student slave or other thesis worker on that.
2020-01-29T22:00:59 < Cracki> bitch what autocompletion is that much work? bs!
2020-01-29T22:01:22 < Cracki> majestik møødle
2020-01-29T22:02:27 < Cracki> aandrew, moodle is an online course thingy. schools use it to get material to students, to quiz students, provide discussion boards, handle exam registration and whatnot
2020-01-29T22:04:57 < Steffanx> I remember using moodle once. but i dont remember why and when
2020-01-29T22:05:07 < Steffanx> Oh i do, it must have been in the land of the finnishers.
2020-01-29T22:05:35 < Steffanx> The UAS i vistited seemed to be a huge moodle fan
2020-01-29T22:06:16 < mawk> UAS sounds like a disease
2020-01-29T22:06:56 < Steffanx> no, its a university of applied science. aka a fake university. Wannabee university whatever not university
2020-01-29T22:07:05 < mawk> a
2020-01-29T22:07:13 < Cracki> fancy, it can even do jigsaw puzzles! https://school.moodledemo.net/mod/quiz/attempt.php?attempt=50&cmid=761
2020-01-29T22:07:23 < Steffanx> we cant see that..
2020-01-29T22:08:59 < Cracki> oh shit they want me to jigsaw up the Thames river! I'm gonna sit here again next year!
2020-01-29T22:09:05 < mawk> lol it shows the lowest grades
2020-01-29T22:09:18 < mawk> that's not very diversity friendly
2020-01-29T22:09:29 < Cracki> why, are the grades COLOR coded?
2020-01-29T22:09:43 < mawk> lol
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2020-01-29T22:12:27 < Cracki> google "london tourist traps", get The London DUNGEON with chains and whipped cream
2020-01-29T22:12:48 < mawk> you won't get acid-attacked there
2020-01-29T22:13:38 < Cracki> >_>
2020-01-29T22:15:45 < Steffanx> Hows the Hakselling going, mawk?
2020-01-29T22:16:40 < mawk> any' = foldr (||) False
2020-01-29T22:17:39 < Steffanx> Excellent. 
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2020-01-29T22:27:10 < aandrew> Cracki: yes, I know my two sons have it (burnaby online), I didn't know if that was just a them thing or you were using some other definition
2020-01-29T22:28:55 < Cracki> stuff like this pops up all over
2020-01-29T22:29:09 < Cracki> my uni used to have a homegrown thing based on sharepoint, of all things
2020-01-29T22:29:19 < Cracki> but the student slaves eventually left and then they had nobody to maintain it
2020-01-29T22:29:27 < specing> ha
2020-01-29T22:29:36 < Cracki> also the compute center refused to put online the servers they requested and bought
2020-01-29T22:30:45 < specing> why
2020-01-29T22:30:57 < Cracki> ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
2020-01-29T22:31:09 < Cracki> why do bureaucrats and tyrants ever do something?
2020-01-29T22:31:20 < Cracki> because YOU CAN'T
2020-01-29T22:38:53 < Cracki> need to rent retail space? retail property values will go down due to coronavirus keeping ppl at home and ordering online, says this dude https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6NunsghY-vs
2020-01-29T22:40:18 < aandrew> "student slaves" LOL
2020-01-29T22:42:47 < Cracki> our most commonly colloquial term is "hilfswissenschaftler" or "hilfswilliger", which basically means traitor and collaborating with the enemy
2020-01-29T22:43:00 < Cracki> short hiwi
2020-01-29T22:49:09 < mawk> lol
2020-01-29T22:49:34 < mawk> I was high at german classes but I know it doesn't mean traitor
2020-01-29T22:49:48 < mawk> you can't forget wissenschaft, it rolls out of the tongue
2020-01-29T22:51:03 < Cracki> hilfswilliger has this historical connotation
2020-01-29T22:51:54 < mawk> collaborator
2020-01-29T22:52:18 < Cracki> german history
2020-01-29T22:54:04 < mawk> Steffanx: I saw a sign that says "ATTENTIE! Deze buurt werkt met een WhatsApp-Alert!"
2020-01-29T22:54:07 < mawk> with a green whatsapp logo
2020-01-29T22:54:20 < mawk> dutchies are walking around doing free advertisement for evil megacorporations
2020-01-29T22:54:53 < Steffanx> Yes, go make your own stickers.
2020-01-29T22:55:39 < Cracki> wats a watsapp alert, do they use that for a neighborhood patrol?
2020-01-29T22:55:43 < mawk> yes
2020-01-29T22:55:57 < mawk> "this neighborhood works with a whatsapp-alert"
2020-01-29T22:56:01 < Cracki> >_>
2020-01-29T22:56:19 < mawk> data-driven low-code 2.0 cloud neighbohood watch
2020-01-29T22:56:43 < Cracki> just put a fence around it, train some dogs and let them roam
2020-01-29T22:58:14 < Cracki> https://i.imgur.com/LHyd4LC.jpg
2020-01-29T22:59:12 < mawk> lol
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2020-01-29T23:15:33 < Cracki> just looked up beaver vs nutria vs muskrat. 45 lbs for a beaver. when I imagine what that weight feels like in my hands, I have to imagine hefting a fatassed rodent
2020-01-29T23:21:40 < Laurenceb> https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-51301915
2020-01-29T23:21:44 < Laurenceb> incel rebellion
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2020-01-29T23:25:30 < Cracki> two solutions: make the sjws care for them, or genetically engineer chicken to reproduce asexually
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2020-01-29T23:26:50 < Cracki> i wondered why they sell "calf" instead of "beef"... likely because it's still "calf" at the point where it adds muscle slower than it consumes feedstock so that's where you harvest
2020-01-29T23:29:36 < Cracki> funny how they enact pro-life policies for animals and pro-abortion policies for humans
2020-01-29T23:31:24 < mawk> lol
2020-01-29T23:31:56 < mawk> tacos is disappointing
2020-01-29T23:32:04 < mawk> I will be eating dutch food for now on
2020-01-29T23:34:31 < mawk> do you haskell Cracki ?
2020-01-29T23:35:04 < Cracki> did some for the first-semester class when I took it and when I was one of a dozen teaching assistants once
2020-01-29T23:35:20 < mawk> nice
2020-01-29T23:35:22 < Cracki> most recently I looked at forth for embedded fuckery
2020-01-29T23:35:30 < mawk> yes I like stack based things
2020-01-29T23:35:31 < Cracki> looked at, not much more :P
2020-01-29T23:35:38 < mawk> my pocket calculator was dc at some point
2020-01-29T23:35:49 < mawk> it's a unix utility that is a rpn calculator
2020-01-29T23:35:49 < Cracki> oh yes I love programmable calculators
2020-01-29T23:35:58 < mawk> with macros and stuff
2020-01-29T23:36:00 < Cracki> grew up with one in school. it was fun
2020-01-29T23:36:15 < Cracki> macros even, nice
2020-01-29T23:36:24 < mawk> in school I had some calculator with a keyboard, a mouse, colored screen, BASIC programs and games, etc
2020-01-29T23:36:31 < mawk> I don't know why they would give it to highschool students
2020-01-29T23:36:34 < Cracki> o.o
2020-01-29T23:36:39 < mawk> to justify the tuition fees probably
2020-01-29T23:36:41 < mawk> I still have it
2020-01-29T23:36:59 < mawk> https://www.amazon.com/Texas-Instruments-Nspire-Graphing-Calculator/dp/B004NBZAYS
2020-01-29T23:37:02 < mawk> this thing
2020-01-29T23:37:10 < Cracki> aunt and mom gave me a "learning computer" in elementary school... wasn't very useful, except for when I figured out how to use its BASIC
2020-01-29T23:37:15 < mawk> but the software to program it needs some software key that is on the box, and I lost it since
2020-01-29T23:37:17 < mawk> lost the cable too
2020-01-29T23:37:21 < Cracki> ah, nspire, those are complex things
2020-01-29T23:37:42 < mawk> yeah
2020-01-29T23:37:44 < mawk> it's nice for statistics
2020-01-29T23:37:45 < Cracki> basically a blackberry
2020-01-29T23:37:48 < mawk> it has a little Excel in it
2020-01-29T23:37:58 < Cracki> I hope it has enough excel for matrix manipulation
2020-01-29T23:38:00 < mawk> I typed my courses in it
2020-01-29T23:38:04 < mawk> to read them during exams
2020-01-29T23:38:10 < mawk> yes it does matrices
2020-01-29T23:38:16 < mawk> and some symbolic stuff too
2020-01-29T23:38:48 < Cracki> we had ti 83, eventually ti 83 plus, which gained "apps" and you could give it some very simple symbol math
2020-01-29T23:38:55 < mawk> yes
2020-01-29T23:38:59 < mawk> nice stuff
2020-01-29T23:39:49 < Cracki> I wish I had had someone to teach me assembly on these things
2020-01-29T23:40:12 < Cracki> or the environment for C at least. basic ran like snails.
2020-01-29T23:40:24 < mawk> yeah
2020-01-29T23:40:41 < Cracki> only upside was it gave you expression evaluation "for free" in basic
2020-01-29T23:40:52 < mawk> what do you mean ?
2020-01-29T23:41:05 < Cracki> in C or assembly you'd have to evaluate an arbitrary expression yourself
2020-01-29T23:41:10 < Cracki> i.e. user-entered
2020-01-29T23:41:14 < mawk> ah
2020-01-29T23:41:16 < mawk> yes
2020-01-29T23:41:18 < mawk> eval()
2020-01-29T23:41:21 < Cracki> that
2020-01-29T23:41:38 < Cracki> also these things had proper menus for entering keywords quickly
2020-01-29T23:42:06 < mawk> my computer is burning
2020-01-29T23:42:11 < mawk> it's an old laptop I use as mediacenter
2020-01-29T23:42:18 < mawk> it's making airplane noise and it smells of burning pcb
2020-01-29T23:42:20 < Cracki> [prog] [digit] [digit] for calling up most keywords, no need to find the fucking key on that ABC keyboard
2020-01-29T23:42:28 < Cracki> yay
2020-01-29T23:42:34 < Cracki> maybe something crawled in
2020-01-29T23:42:49 < mawk> lol
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2020-01-29T23:50:35 < qyx> lol ADIS16210
2020-01-29T23:50:55 < qyx> 140e on mouser
2020-01-29T23:51:19 < Thorn> AIDS16210
2020-01-29T23:52:18 < mawk> lol
2020-01-29T23:54:21 < qyx> very similar to LIS3DHH
2020-01-29T23:58:26 < invzim> Anyone got the part# for the channel approved usb type-c connector?
2020-01-29T23:58:44 < mawk> isn't it in zypsnips ?
2020-01-29T23:58:54 < mawk> see topik
--- Day changed Thu Jan 30 2020
2020-01-30T00:00:23 < invzim> hmya
2020-01-30T00:00:27 < invzim> think I want >3A
2020-01-30T00:05:03 < invzim> >3A may be incompatible with SMD pins
2020-01-30T00:06:07 < mawk> why ?
2020-01-30T00:06:09 < karlp> parts.usb or usb-c somethign, yeah
2020-01-30T00:06:14 < mawk> you can always add more pins in parallel
2020-01-30T00:06:19 < karlp> could do some editing to merge them maybe.
2020-01-30T00:06:41 < karlp> we dont' have a single approved usb-c, as people have been looking for the "usb-c with only the usb 2 pins connected" stuff too
2020-01-30T00:07:29 < invzim> seem to remember dongs raved about a part which he got 3d-step for 
2020-01-30T00:07:49 < invzim> mawk: just a quick parametric search on lcsc
2020-01-30T00:08:13 < invzim> the 5A ones were non smd for the pins
2020-01-30T00:08:42 < mawk> a
2020-01-30T00:09:02 < invzim> in theory 20v@3a should be enough, but would like a bit of slack
2020-01-30T00:09:06 < mawk> you need like 100W ?
2020-01-30T00:09:17 < mawk> or 60W rather
2020-01-30T00:09:20 < mawk> as you just said
2020-01-30T00:09:33 < invzim> I don't *need* anything, but looking at maybe making a DC supply thingie
2020-01-30T00:09:33 < Thorn> https://twitter.com/systems_zero/status/1222479568096972800
2020-01-30T00:19:13 < Cracki> yeet yes
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2020-01-30T03:37:59 < Ultrasauce> https://hangingarden.bandcamp.com/album/lux-et-umbra musicspam
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2020-01-30T04:24:16 < dongs> lol wow.
2020-01-30T04:24:21 < dongs> retarduino ide still exists
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2020-01-30T04:34:06 < dongs> invzim: that usb-c part IS in zypsnips.
2020-01-30T04:34:17 < dongs> and yeah it should do 3A at least, it has ganged pins for VIN and GND
2020-01-30T04:39:40 < kakigamble> good day dongs
2020-01-30T04:39:46 < kakigamble> g'day
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2020-01-30T05:37:45 < aandrew> yep it iddoes
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2020-01-30T07:38:55 < kakigamble> nice musics Thorn
2020-01-30T07:38:58 < kakigamble> is it for me?
2020-01-30T07:39:19 < kakigamble> I feel like I have heard this before
2020-01-30T07:39:35 < kakigamble> Lost Horizons
2020-01-30T07:47:53 < doomba> kakiCoV
2020-01-30T07:48:24 < doomba> we have to keep making jokes before we all die
2020-01-30T07:48:55 < doomba> if you don't have humor until the very end, there was no purpose to life.
2020-01-30T07:49:36 < kakigamble> I never had humour
2020-01-30T08:02:38 < kakigamble> 1820 > great plague
2020-01-30T08:02:44 < kakigamble> 1920 > great plague
2020-01-30T08:02:48 < kakigamble> 2020 > ?
2020-01-30T08:39:49 < aandrew> bleh
2020-01-30T08:40:10 < aandrew> the ST25R3911 library isn't too terrible to port, but fuck it's a lot of code
2020-01-30T08:40:29 < aandrew> it looks like whoever's in charge of it has been working quite hard to make it portable
2020-01-30T08:40:40 < aandrew> basically change a bunch of defines in platform.h only, exactly the way it should be
2020-01-30T08:42:29 < kakigamble> you need github to get jubb=?
2020-01-30T08:42:37 < aandrew> hm?
2020-01-30T08:44:06 < kakigamble> someone said they don't really care about bs CV
2020-01-30T08:44:18 < kakigamble> show me that github
2020-01-30T08:45:10 < aandrew> I'm fucked if that's true
2020-01-30T08:45:16 < aandrew> but since I'm clearly not fucked, that's BS
2020-01-30T08:45:27 < aandrew> every single one of my contracts is proprietary code
2020-01-30T08:45:39 < aandrew> "show me ur github"? fuck right off
2020-01-30T08:45:46 < jpa-> hasn't been true for me, checking the tracking i've usually been invited to interview before they even open any cv links - if they even end up opening them
2020-01-30T08:46:19 < kakigamble> how did you got invited?
2020-01-30T08:46:23 < aandrew> you do a lot of OSS work though
2020-01-30T08:46:31 < kakigamble> know somebody?
2020-01-30T08:48:06 < jpa-> kakigamble: i mean, after sending application, i've usually received reply inviting me to interview and only later have they opened any links i've included - it probably helps to have stuff to show, but doesn't appear all that critical
2020-01-30T08:48:28 < jpa-> but every employer is different anyway
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2020-01-30T09:12:52 < Steffanx> Just add IRC to your set of skills on your linked in page and you're all settled, kakigamble  
2020-01-30T09:13:11 < kakigamble> :o
2020-01-30T09:14:35 < Steffanx> - set of. All you need is irc skills :P
2020-01-30T09:16:13 -!- bitmask [~bitmask@c-73-215-237-27.hsd1.nj.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: Gone to sleep...]
2020-01-30T09:18:35 < kakigamble> - moderate irc skills
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2020-01-30T09:36:16 < PaulFertser> So what's the essential difference between the current brexit situation and the May's deal that was declined by the MPs?
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2020-01-30T09:39:39 < jadew> http://i.imgur.com/vi3Yr7T.png
2020-01-30T09:42:19 < PaulFertser> Got bitten by Lulrence/b/ jadew ?
2020-01-30T09:43:39 < jadew> that is not as obscure as laurence's stuff
2020-01-30T09:43:43 < jadew> you all get it
2020-01-30T09:46:39 < PaulFertser> I know she's a porn actress. But the quote I can't really get. Is that supposed to mean moaning? Or gagging? Is she well-known to be stupid? Nope, I do not really get it.
2020-01-30T09:47:33 < jadew> it's gagging... she was known to do the most weird/rough of stuff
2020-01-30T09:47:48 < jadew> she's retired now
2020-01-30T09:47:56 < jadew> I think she retired at 22 or something like that
2020-01-30T09:48:38 < PaulFertser> https://www.azquotes.com/author/64478-Sasha_Grey looks sensible for an actor
2020-01-30T09:49:43 < jadew> I saw a reportage once about her
2020-01-30T09:50:14 < jadew> and her agent said that when she first spoke to him, she said: "I will do anything."
2020-01-30T09:50:25 < jadew> I wonder if that quote is there
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2020-01-30T09:56:53 < jadew> https://calgary.ctvnews.ca/calgarians-can-now-rent-a-sex-doll-from-the-comfort-of-their-home-1.4751329
2020-01-30T09:59:01 < jpa-> meh, for 3 years now i've been annoyed at this canon scanner because the canon-provided software has trouble autodetecting it and does not allow manual selection - only now by googling i found it was actually GPL'd by canon: quick   strcpy(netdevices[num++].idAddr, "192.168.100.40");  and everything is fixed :D
2020-01-30T09:59:56 < jadew> so you hardcoded the address? :)
2020-01-30T10:00:07 < jpa-> of course
2020-01-30T10:00:32 < jpa-> the best kind of coding
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2020-01-30T10:03:01 < jadew> I looked into it, it costs $120 to rent a doll for one hour
2020-01-30T10:03:17 < jadew> you can get a nice hooker for that, isn't it?
2020-01-30T10:04:17 < jadew> you'd probably have a better margin if you were a pimp
2020-01-30T10:05:03 < jadew> these guys have to thoroughly wash them when they get them back
2020-01-30T10:06:03 < jadew> also, they're available during normal working hours lol
2020-01-30T10:06:20 < jadew> *only
2020-01-30T10:07:51 < aandrew> jesus.. rent a sex doll? you just grossed me out and I do not gross out easily
2020-01-30T10:08:15 < jadew> yeah, apparently the cleaning process is something they get asked about quite often
2020-01-30T10:09:53 < jadew> looks like there's more than one of these places in Canada
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2020-01-30T10:42:09 < dongs> 120 gets you a pretty shitty hooker
2020-01-30T10:42:15 < dongs> at least in japan
2020-01-30T10:44:00 < jadew> doesn't every household have a sex doll in japan?
2020-01-30T10:44:44 < jadew> pretty sure that's where they originated
2020-01-30T10:45:45 < jadew> I never hired a hooker, but I know that about 10 years ago, you could get a really nice hooker for $100 in here
2020-01-30T10:45:56 < jadew> the cheap ones were like... $20
2020-01-30T10:46:04 < dongs> free aids incldued for $20
2020-01-30T10:47:17 < jadew> probably included in the package, with the rest of the STDs
2020-01-30T10:51:30 < PaulFertser> https://skeptics.stackexchange.com/questions/28927/do-25-of-japanese-people-believe-that-ussr-dropped-nuclear-bombs-on-hiroshima
2020-01-30T10:53:30 < jadew> PaulFertser, the comments suggest that the answer is No
2020-01-30T10:54:17 < PaulFertser> jadew: yes, and the answer provides more background. Still interesting. 
2020-01-30T11:02:54 < dongs> Draftsman: Fixed issue where the component reference marker was not shown for a BGA with alpha-numeric pad numbering. (BC:8576)
2020-01-30T11:02:57 < dongs> woohoo
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2020-01-30T11:17:18 < Steffanx> Wlcm jly 
2020-01-30T11:17:34 < jly> gooday sport
2020-01-30T11:17:56 < Steffanx> Sports ball?
2020-01-30T11:18:11 < jly> where is laurence mate
2020-01-30T11:21:15 < Steffanx> Jail
2020-01-30T11:23:12 < jly> is he a nonce?
2020-01-30T11:23:49 < jly> that's what brits call sex offenders
2020-01-30T11:24:58 < Steffanx> Sure
2020-01-30T11:25:17 < jly> oh no
2020-01-30T11:30:08 < jly> Steffanx: is tectu ever going to return
2020-01-30T11:45:01 < Steffanx> Hmm
2020-01-30T11:45:09 < Steffanx> ASK on telegram
2020-01-30T11:45:13 < Steffanx> Ask him*
2020-01-30T12:25:27 < jly> i'm scared
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2020-01-30T12:32:33 < qyx> what of
2020-01-30T12:36:08 < karlp> the sky falling
2020-01-30T12:41:14 < jly> ty and greetings
2020-01-30T12:45:24 < Steffanx> Hello Welcome
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2020-01-30T13:04:26 < jly> wlcm
2020-01-30T13:06:11 < Steffanx> There he is jly 
2020-01-30T13:11:30 < jly> good work there
2020-01-30T13:16:33 < doomba> wat.png
2020-01-30T13:17:02 < doomba> bill's bat soup virus cancelled my cmsis-dap shipment from sweatshop #495
2020-01-30T13:17:08 < karlp> man, ordering from china in late november has been my worst shipping experiences of ever.
2020-01-30T13:17:15 < karlp> four parcels over two months
2020-01-30T13:17:22 < karlp> still waiting on the last one.
2020-01-30T13:17:41 < doomba> i have 3 shipments still pending and no idea when they will ship, if ever.
2020-01-30T13:17:52 < doomba> one of them is from over a month ago
2020-01-30T13:20:54 < karlp> a month is normal, this was ordered november 16, arrived at customs january 27.
2020-01-30T13:25:49 < jadew> karlp, same situation here
2020-01-30T13:26:22 < jadew> at least you know the virus didn't survive
2020-01-30T13:26:58 < jly> australia exploded
2020-01-30T13:27:04 < jly> according to news.com.au
2020-01-30T13:28:17 < doomba> let's see what kind of predictive programming bill's fabian society georgia guide stones activation has for us on news.lordgoogle this morning...
2020-01-30T13:28:44 < doomba> Two Australians who contracted coronavirus have been discharged from hospital after they were deemed to have “got better” from the infection.
2020-01-30T13:28:53 < doomba> oh nooooo! greta! it's not working!
2020-01-30T13:29:29 < jly> hi doomba 
2020-01-30T13:31:35 < englishman> 2 in Vic, one in Queensland, 4 in nsw
2020-01-30T13:34:20 < doomba> better luck next time, bill!
2020-01-30T13:34:46 < doomba> maybe stick to vaccinating african kids
2020-01-30T13:35:44 < jly> hi englishman 
2020-01-30T13:40:51 < kakigamble> 1 in finland
2020-01-30T13:41:15 < kakigamble> go finland
2020-01-30T13:41:24 < kakigamble> I'm proud
2020-01-30T13:42:51 < zyp> congrats
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2020-01-30T13:43:20 < kakigamble> norway 0
2020-01-30T13:43:49 < kakigamble> they always better in everything.. not this time
2020-01-30T13:44:13 < zyp> I think it's better not to be sick
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2020-01-30T13:48:35 < englishman> you'll get it, but be 20 years behind, like most of europe
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2020-01-30T13:49:26 < kakigamble> that is what I thought zyp but when we got our own ncov I changed my mind
2020-01-30T13:50:26 < zyp> is it really a big deal? I heard it's somewhere in between the common cold and seasonal flu in seriousness
2020-01-30T13:52:55 -!- veegee [~veegee@ipagstaticip-3d3f7614-22f3-5b69-be13-7ab4b2c585d9.sdsl.bell.ca] has quit [Quit: veegee]
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2020-01-30T14:00:24 < doomba> kakigamble: you have to change your nick to kakiCoV to confirm infection in your country
2020-01-30T14:01:18 -!- kakigamble is now known as kakiCoV
2020-01-30T14:05:48 < dongs> Why don't black people think Santa is black? Cause even they know he'll just steal all their shit if he was
2020-01-30T14:15:32 < kakiCoV> are you cracking japanise jokes dongs?
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2020-01-30T15:15:30 < Cracki> 170 dead 133 recovered, 56%. it's sticking to that rate
2020-01-30T15:16:13 < jadew> used to be 63%, but yeah, it doesn't look good
2020-01-30T15:17:30 < Cracki> somewhere around 50-60%
2020-01-30T15:17:48 < jpa-> and you are sticking to a silly way of calculating things :)
2020-01-30T15:18:28 < jadew> sure, it may take longer to recover
2020-01-30T15:18:45 < jadew> but those japs got well pretty fast, didn't they?
2020-01-30T15:18:47 < Cracki> If Current Trends Continue, 100k cases by 4th of february, million cases by 2/10, billion at around 2/27
2020-01-30T15:19:29 < jpa-> and by april, we'll need more people to be able to keep up with Cracki's law
2020-01-30T15:19:54 < Cracki> how many japs were infected anyway
2020-01-30T15:20:11 < Cracki> and what kinda health care did they receive
2020-01-30T15:20:57 < Cracki> a handful of cases can receive more concentrated attention. the chinese are swamped. people have to get better on their own, hardly any medical assistance
2020-01-30T15:22:04 < jadew> that's probably true, with so many cases, it's probably impossible to treat them all
2020-01-30T15:22:10 < jadew> other than giving them pills
2020-01-30T15:22:23 < jadew> luckily lots of the drugs are made there
2020-01-30T15:22:36 < jadew> so they can produce however much they need of whatever they need
2020-01-30T15:22:51 < specing> not if the factory staff falls ill :P
2020-01-30T15:23:28 < jadew> I'm sure they'd be more than happy to tell someone else how to make their pills, because they'll get theirs from the last batch
2020-01-30T15:26:28 < Cracki> huh, apparently "if current trends continue" isn't a trope yet. little data or stretching assumptions is what all the doomsday cults do
2020-01-30T15:27:09 < Cracki> even flat earthers do it. they do first order taylor expansion on the world their own eyes can see
2020-01-30T15:28:20 < jadew> well, the plot is exponential and it's difficult to tell if the slope is getting smaller
2020-01-30T15:28:39 < Cracki> read today that this strain seems to like particular receptors(?) that are 5 times more common in asians vs rest of the world
2020-01-30T15:28:55 < Cracki> so we could be fine while half of asia gets depopulated
2020-01-30T15:29:08 < Cracki> the point isn't that the plot is exponential
2020-01-30T15:29:45 < Cracki> look at world pop curves. we're in the linear part of the (assumed) sigmoid. *before* it looked quite exponential
2020-01-30T15:31:38 < Cracki> this stuff consists of nonlinear balances. you don't feel overpopulation pressure in the exponential section. it's balancing reproduction around now and will dominate (flattening off) in a few years to a few decades
2020-01-30T15:32:46 < Cracki> also fun are the smoothbrains who say travel restrictions are useless. no, they are not useless. they slow down spread and greatly affect how many survivors there can be.
2020-01-30T15:33:29 < jadew> who's saying that?
2020-01-30T15:33:40 < jadew> travel is the main issue here
2020-01-30T15:33:45 < Cracki> a subset of the "it's cool guys" ppl
2020-01-30T15:33:52 < jadew> if people couldn't travel, the village would get sick and that would be about it
2020-01-30T15:33:59 < Cracki> sure, panic is useless
2020-01-30T15:34:26 < Cracki> you have too much common sense to understand the average NPC
2020-01-30T15:36:03 < Cracki> travel restriction has a similar effect to vaccination (herd immunity). it increases resistance to spread by lowering the chance of communication.
2020-01-30T15:37:11 < Cracki> NPCs don't really understand. they just parrot, like they do when it is about vaccinations. travel restriction is suddenly not about public health, but about hurt feefees
2020-01-30T15:37:37 < karlp> finished feeling special yet?
2020-01-30T15:38:21 < jpa-> i'm not controlled by a player, are you?
2020-01-30T15:39:35 < Cracki> found it: at least this strain is sensitive to "ACE2 receptors"
2020-01-30T15:41:43 < karlp> jpa-: what are the takling stats like these days? do you still have a thing that makes a graph and that?
2020-01-30T15:42:30 < jpa-> http://jpa.kapsi.fi/stuff/other/cspy/stm32.html  looks like i do
2020-01-30T15:42:42 < jpa-> you're still the center figure we all look up to
2020-01-30T15:43:47 < karlp> ah, that doesn't do lines or word count though does it.
2020-01-30T15:44:11 < jpa-> no it doesn't
2020-01-30T15:44:18 < jpa-> i think someone else had such stats
2020-01-30T15:45:15 < jpa-> heh, now jlcpcb has info that they won't resume production until february 10
2020-01-30T15:45:39 < karlp> yeah, tiptrans said government extended holidays, expected restart of work currently scheduled for feb 10
2020-01-30T15:53:57 < jpa-> on one hand, that means i have 1.5 weeks more time to finish testing proto1; on the other hand, that means i have 2.5 weeks more time i need to develop for a proto that will receive extensive changes later
2020-01-30T15:55:37 < jadew> here's a question tho
2020-01-30T15:56:01 < jadew> if they spit on your boards and you get them by DHL or other fast courier, is there a chance to get sick?
2020-01-30T15:56:37 < jpa-> most online sources estimate that coronavirus lives on surfaces less than 24 hours
2020-01-30T15:57:01 < jpa-> though i did seriously consider that i might bake the package in oven before opening
2020-01-30T15:57:09 < jadew> I heard that it can live for up to a couple of days "depending on the surface" - I don't know what that means, but that's what they said
2020-01-30T15:57:18 < jadew> oh, baking them sounds good
2020-01-30T15:57:25 < jadew> but they're wrapped in plastic
2020-01-30T15:57:50 < jadew> you could keep it at a high enough temp to get the water out tho
2020-01-30T15:57:59 < jadew> say... 60°?
2020-01-30T15:58:15 < jpa-> 100°C should be enough to deactivate most viruses but not melt the plastics
2020-01-30T15:58:15 < Steffanx> I will die soon. I opened by fresh box from China yesterday
2020-01-30T15:58:33 < Steffanx> It was a perfect insulated box.
2020-01-30T15:58:42 < jpa-> good bye Steffanx - i hope you'll tell us your real last name before you die - it's the last big secret of ##stm32
2020-01-30T15:58:44 < Steffanx> By = my 
2020-01-30T15:58:50 < jadew> Steffanx, so you got fresh china air in there?
2020-01-30T15:58:54 < Cracki> it's a virus, water shouldn't matter?
2020-01-30T15:59:02 < Steffanx> Jly and tct might remember it, jpa-  
2020-01-30T15:59:15 < Steffanx> And others
2020-01-30T15:59:40 < jadew> Cracki, apparently it matters because it gets carried in a watery thing, like a cell
2020-01-30T15:59:41 < jpa-> Cracki: it's quite difficult to actually destroy the RNA strands of a virus, but most viruses (including coronavirus) have a water-containing envelope that is necessary for it to be able to infect new cells
2020-01-30T15:59:42 < Steffanx> Sure jadew  
2020-01-30T16:00:21 < jadew> lots of dangerous shit from china...
2020-01-30T16:00:24 < Cracki> i wonder how UV affects it
2020-01-30T16:00:51 < jpa-> UVC probably destroys viruses completely
2020-01-30T16:00:56 < jadew> just earlier I decided against getting an impulse sealer because I saw a teardown that showed what looked like asbestos
2020-01-30T16:01:32 < jadew> yeah, UV might work, but it's more difficult to treat everything with it
2020-01-30T16:01:37 < Steffanx> Being patient zero in dutchland would make me famous for sure jadew
2020-01-30T16:01:37 < Cracki> or dunk it in alcohol
2020-01-30T16:01:38 < jadew> heat gets everything
2020-01-30T16:01:43 < Cracki> daylight UV might be good enough
2020-01-30T16:01:57 < Cracki> wait for a sunny day, leave it outside for a bit
2020-01-30T16:02:02 < Cracki> ye bake it
2020-01-30T16:02:11 < Cracki> any reason for 60 degrees only?
2020-01-30T16:02:59 < jadew> I'm thinking that the plastic and other shit in there are going to outgass and then you'll have funny smelling PCBs
2020-01-30T16:03:11 < Cracki> worried that the shrinkwrap will melt? if it's the kind that melts in a dishwasher, 60C might be a good idea to stay under
2020-01-30T16:03:16 < Cracki> ah
2020-01-30T16:03:33 < Cracki> well, the pcbs won't smell anymore, but the oven around them :P
2020-01-30T16:03:59 < jpa-> there are bacteria that can survive up to 120°C, but i'm not sure if any virus can
2020-01-30T16:04:51 < jadew> you know... you can just wear a mask, gloves, open the envelope over a dumpster fire put the boards straight in the oven, do a 200° bake
2020-01-30T16:05:04 < jadew> and throw the gloves and the mask in the fire too
2020-01-30T16:05:10 < jadew> (in that order)
2020-01-30T16:05:24 < Cracki> and when are you gonna populate them
2020-01-30T16:05:26 < Steffanx> Or just get sick and die.
2020-01-30T16:05:36 < doomba> or just lick the bags to open the china parts like i did a couple days ago
2020-01-30T16:05:38 < jadew> or just get sick and get well!
2020-01-30T16:05:42 < jadew> that would be a much better option
2020-01-30T16:05:56 < jpa-> it's better to get sick now that the hospitals are still working, then if you are in the 34% you'll be immune once the real epidemic hits!
2020-01-30T16:05:59 < doomba> and i'll do the same with the next shit from china
2020-01-30T16:06:06 < jadew> those 170 people that got well are already on the assembly line, putting iPhones together
2020-01-30T16:06:22 < doomba> ^
2020-01-30T16:06:24 < doomba> exactly
2020-01-30T16:06:30 < Cracki> they should be sucking them dry for antibodies
2020-01-30T16:06:42 < jadew> oh, right.. that's probably what's going on
2020-01-30T16:06:48 < doomba> the more you wait and try not to catch it, the worse it's gonna be when you do.
2020-01-30T16:06:49 < jadew> they're fucked
2020-01-30T16:07:11 < doomba> when hospitals are full and they're turning people away who aren't rich
2020-01-30T16:07:12 < jadew> doomba, that's a good point too
2020-01-30T16:07:25 < doomba> and store shelves are empty and people are robbing and killing eachother
2020-01-30T16:07:35 < Cracki> they should do "measles parties" where everyone swaps spit or whatever is customarily done at such events
2020-01-30T16:07:48 < jadew> I bet preppers are ecstatic right now
2020-01-30T16:07:52 < doomba> you can be sitting pretty with a nice garden to hold you over until the chaos is over.
2020-01-30T16:08:06 < doomba> having already dealt with the virus
2020-01-30T16:08:27 < doomba> that's my plan
2020-01-30T16:08:41 < Cracki> I felt it prudent to buy two sixpacks of water just in case people rob the stores and I have to drink tap
2020-01-30T16:08:52 < jadew> Cracki, me too!
2020-01-30T16:09:10 < jadew> but only bought a couple of bottles because I was lazy, but I did tell my wife that we should get a couple of packs, just in case
2020-01-30T16:09:12 < doomba> better yet, get yourself some of those sawyer water filters and keep them in plastic bags in a warm dry place
2020-01-30T16:09:27 < jpa-> you have undrinkable tap water? how can you possibly have survived up to now!
2020-01-30T16:09:32 < Cracki> get whole canisters
2020-01-30T16:09:42 < jadew> jpa-, what if there is a nuclear explosion near you?
2020-01-30T16:09:48 < jadew> and everyone is sick
2020-01-30T16:10:02 < jadew> how do you get your water then?
2020-01-30T16:10:12 < doomba> also make sure you hide your china stuff
2020-01-30T16:10:13 < Cracki> if shit does go down, canisters are good to have for storing and moving large amounts, but not as handy as bottles
2020-01-30T16:10:54 < jpa-> jadew: well, for a while it flows down from the water tower, after that i can drink the lake
2020-01-30T16:10:57 < Cracki> also bought one of every type of pasta they had on sale. >_> mostly for doing a taste comparison
2020-01-30T16:11:03 < doomba> when the UN kicks down your door to confinscate guns and medicine, they'll shoot you on sight if they see any chinesium that isn't on the approved list: iphones
2020-01-30T16:11:12 < jadew> jpa-, but water would be contaminated
2020-01-30T16:11:16 < jadew> the lake water anyway
2020-01-30T16:11:47 < jpa-> yeah, but i'd still survive longe than with 12 bottles only
2020-01-30T16:11:52 < jadew> probably the tap water too, because they keep it in open basins
2020-01-30T16:11:52 < jpa-> +r
2020-01-30T16:12:08 < jpa-> uh, crazy people there, here no way any tap water would be in open basins
2020-01-30T16:12:12 < doomba> how are you gonna get the water though?
2020-01-30T16:12:24 < doomba> without getting sniped?
2020-01-30T16:12:28 < jadew> jpa-, it's how it's done in most places
2020-01-30T16:12:37 < Cracki> i don't even know where our water comes from. could be a combination of a bunch of wells (we have a bunch around here), water reclamation, perhaps some reservoir too
2020-01-30T16:12:40 < jadew> (around the world)
2020-01-30T16:13:00 < Cracki> I saw a documentation about the  water towers everyon has on their roof in nyc. FESTERING CESSPOOLS
2020-01-30T16:13:09 < Cracki> nobody ever cleans those, also lots of pigeon shit
2020-01-30T16:13:10 < jpa-> doomba: sniped by who? the only dude in the neighbourhood with a hunting riffle?
2020-01-30T16:13:43 < jadew> jpa-: this is LA's reservoir: https://www.nationalgeographic.com/news/2015/08/150812-shade-balls-los-angeles-California-drought-water-environment/
2020-01-30T16:14:27 < jpa-> jadew: ah, sure, but that's before the purification plant and of course that would stop operating the moment your bomb drops
2020-01-30T16:14:31 < Cracki> those balls prevent birds from landing on the water, also can't be sat on. awesome.
2020-01-30T16:14:41 < doomba> jpa-: sniped by UN forces
2020-01-30T16:15:43 < jadew> jpa-, one way of dealing with the package is to not open it for a while
2020-01-30T16:15:49 < jadew> but you said it's a proto so...
2020-01-30T16:16:19 < jpa-> well, i'm not getting the package anyway because jlcpcb is off :P
2020-01-30T16:16:44 < doomba> damn i knew it
2020-01-30T16:17:03 < doomba> i was hoping because lcsc is an isolated prison complex that they'd still be operational
2020-01-30T16:17:09 < specing> Cracki: there can't be pigeon shit in them, those are supposed to be enclosed reservoirs
2020-01-30T16:17:29 < jpa-> (for 4-layers anyway, apparently they'll keep out churning the basic 2-layer green corona-plated boards)
2020-01-30T16:17:55 < Cracki> specing, supposed yes and you'd think they get regular inspections but they don't
2020-01-30T16:18:05 < doomba> n-HASL-CoV
2020-01-30T16:18:08 < Cracki> and they are sometimes without a roof
2020-01-30T16:18:14 < Cracki> or a roof with big gaps
2020-01-30T16:18:25 < Cracki> hm, biofilm made from virus
2020-01-30T16:18:41 < karlp> turns out drinking surface water is actualyl mostly safe.
2020-01-30T16:18:55 < jadew> karlp, in general?
2020-01-30T16:18:56 < doomba> ya
2020-01-30T16:18:56 < karlp> giardia the biggest concern normally.
2020-01-30T16:18:58 < Cracki> wasn't there some alternative to hasl and enig that needed an organic coating to keep from corroding, but that only stayed good for a few months?
2020-01-30T16:19:06 < karlp> jadew: yeah, normally.
2020-01-30T16:19:11 < jadew> karlp, because of the sun?
2020-01-30T16:19:12 < doomba> jadew: where i live most areas get their water from open reserviors
2020-01-30T16:19:23 < jadew> doomba, same here
2020-01-30T16:19:35 < Cracki> OSP!
2020-01-30T16:19:56 < jpa-> water is mostly safe microbiologically everywhere except where some of your fellow humans has shat in it
2020-01-30T16:20:38 < karlp> jadew: I think it's a combination of factors, but it's normallllly not a problem.  livestock and human waste are biggest concerns, and then it has to have been close enough and undisturbed, and you to be unlucky enough to get anything.
2020-01-30T16:20:52 < karlp> hence giardia being one of the more likely ones to actually get.
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2020-01-30T16:21:10 < karlp> going away for a weekend? don't bother filtering.  going for two weeks and need to keep moving or die? probably better filter
2020-01-30T16:21:41 < jadew> otherwise you will shit yourself and won't be able to keep moving?
2020-01-30T16:23:34 < karlp> yeah, and you'll get better, but might lose a few days being sick.
2020-01-30T16:24:23 < karlp> whereas if you get a bit of an upset tummy back at home on tuesday night, fuck it, just take a day or two off :)
2020-01-30T16:25:59 < doomba> jpa-: totally not true
2020-01-30T16:26:07 < doomba> i mean maybe in europe? i donno
2020-01-30T16:26:16 < doomba> but there is no water in US that you can drink without filtering first
2020-01-30T16:26:32 < jadew> I've drank river water so many times as a kid
2020-01-30T16:26:34 < doomba> you could die because most of the water is downstream from CAFOs
2020-01-30T16:26:47 < jadew> also swallowed a bunch of lake water when swimming in a rather dirty lake
2020-01-30T16:26:53 < jadew> (daily)
2020-01-30T16:27:43 < jpa-> doomba: if that's true, US is even more fucked up than i knew already
2020-01-30T16:27:52 < doomba> they take pig shit and gutted carcasses, grind them up and spray them into motes behind the factories. that stuff then goes into the rivers and streams
2020-01-30T16:28:08 < karlp> doomba: _bullshit_
2020-01-30T16:28:17 < doomba> karlp: not bullshit. look it up.
2020-01-30T16:28:58 < jpa-> here special trucks pick up any carcasses and get them burned; but the shit is still spread on the fields, and some of it of course makes it way into the rivers, but it's not like it is a microbiological hazard at that point
2020-01-30T16:29:18 < doomba> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KKyGdf2v6vw
2020-01-30T16:29:32 < jpa-> the livestock here is mostly healthier than average people anyway
2020-01-30T16:29:36 < karlp> I'm calling bullshit on this to be clear, "there is no water in US that you can drink without filtering first"
2020-01-30T16:32:17 < doomba> karlp: oh. yea. maybe if you go way up in elevation it's safe but for the majority of the country, you're either gonna be drinking hog shit or pesticide/herbicide runoff and other factory waste.
2020-01-30T16:32:18 < Cracki> >10 billion gallons of waste, most stored in open lagoons
2020-01-30T16:32:20 < Cracki> wat
2020-01-30T16:32:35 < Cracki> do you people not know how to store that in closed vessels?
2020-01-30T16:32:59 < karlp> open is so they can dry out.
2020-01-30T16:33:04 < karlp> what you gonna do with closed?
2020-01-30T16:33:18 < doomba> every summer where i live wew have to boil water because of the farming industry runoff causing algae bloom
2020-01-30T16:34:01 < Cracki> boiling may kill diseases but what filter do you use to get chemicals out of it
2020-01-30T16:34:19 < karlp> nutrient rich water causing blooms doens't mean "will make you sick" though...
2020-01-30T16:34:58 < Cracki> and how do you have such a large problem with runoff? sure, that shit gets spread on fields for fertilizer, but that's done everywhere and I don't hear _much_ about that being a problem around _here_
2020-01-30T16:37:06 < karlp> tHaT'sWhTtHeYWaNtyou believe or something.
2020-01-30T16:37:21 < doomba> Cracki: our problem with runoff is because our agricultural system is really messed up here
2020-01-30T16:37:35 < Cracki> sounds like it definitely
2020-01-30T16:37:49 < doomba> our farmers are all government subsidy, US is the world's largest producers of soy and i think corn too
2020-01-30T16:38:02 < Cracki> I mean, "just" build silos for your manure, keep it there until it's time to spread it on the fields
2020-01-30T16:38:03 < doomba> the majority of the land is for growing these two crops
2020-01-30T16:38:12 < Cracki> no way for rainwater to dilute or overflow those
2020-01-30T16:38:40 < doomba> and all of these farmers are basically just contractors on subsidy from government growing for conglomerates that make the seeds, the chemicals, farming equipment, the insurance, etc.
2020-01-30T16:38:41 < doomba> the banks
2020-01-30T16:39:04 < doomba> the farmers basically have no power whatsoever to enact change in the system because of the stranglehold by the big agro conglomerates here
2020-01-30T16:39:06 < Cracki> and maybe don't store that stuff where there has been a flood in the past x years
2020-01-30T16:39:32 < Cracki> ok yes lots of murica is flat as a mirror, don't want to cart pig shit to the nearest mole hill
2020-01-30T16:39:44 < doomba> well. you have to understand the scale here
2020-01-30T16:40:03 < doomba> we have CAFOs instead of real animal farms
2020-01-30T16:40:09 < Cracki> I think a murican made the first 20-meter wide combine
2020-01-30T16:40:26 < Cracki> animal concentration camps, ic
2020-01-30T16:40:38 < doomba> when people think of a farm where pigs and cows are... they see a vision in their head of like a traditional farm from the 1930's or something.
2020-01-30T16:40:57 < Cracki> sure, not comparable to a sleepy little farm owned by grandpa
2020-01-30T16:41:09 < doomba> but in reality, each factory is 100's of thousands of animals being processed at industrial scale
2020-01-30T16:41:13 < doomba> millions per day
2020-01-30T16:41:40 < Cracki> still, the commercial operations I see around here are like double/triple digit pigs or cows
2020-01-30T16:41:50 < Cracki> uh
2020-01-30T16:41:58 < doomba> and that's why we grow so much corn/soy to feed them
2020-01-30T16:42:11 < Cracki> a slaughterhouse having that many customers a day maybe
2020-01-30T16:42:38 < doomba> the corn/soy is not a natural diet for these animals, so they get really sick. the solution the industry has come up with for that is to simply crank up the speed.
2020-01-30T16:42:42 < Cracki> >in which over 1000 animal units are confined for over 45 days a year
2020-01-30T16:42:49 < doomba> get them to slaughter faster than they can get sick from the improper diet
2020-01-30T16:43:25 < Cracki> they feed whole corn plants, shredded and siloed, to our livestock too
2020-01-30T16:43:34 < Cracki> doesn't look like they have much trouble with it
2020-01-30T16:43:39 < doomba> depends on the animal
2020-01-30T16:43:58 < doomba> most likely that shredded corn stuff is actually distillers grain because most of the livestock can't eat raw corn even if it's ground up.
2020-01-30T16:44:05 < Cracki> not just corn plant, they mix in some other stuff, not sure what all
2020-01-30T16:44:14 < Cracki> calcium maybe
2020-01-30T16:44:31 < doomba> because of how distillers grain is processed, it's actually not bad at all for the animals
2020-01-30T16:44:32 < Cracki> it's not raw, it's siloed, a kind of sauerkraut process, not sure what it's called
2020-01-30T16:45:17 < Cracki> they harvest that and put it in silos, it's not coming from a distiller
2020-01-30T16:45:43 < doomba> it has a good nutritional profile for them. they can digest it. so it's a win win. the only downside is that because of the CAFO process, cortisol in the animals combined with still-improper feeding cause their lipid profile to get hella imbalanced, causing inflammation.
2020-01-30T16:45:48 < Cracki> "silo" meaning a heap on the ground that's packed down and covered with tarp
2020-01-30T16:46:03 < doomba> then we consume the meat as omega 6 bombs that cause inflammation in humans. causing all sorts of inflammatory diseases.
2020-01-30T16:46:11 < Cracki> kinda like wrapped hay bales, those apparently also undergo some fermentation(?)
2020-01-30T16:46:29 < Cracki> ic
2020-01-30T16:46:49 < doomba> and the food industry is being too slow to change - because of greed mainly.
2020-01-30T16:47:12 < doomba> right now we're in a stage where they're basically just outright committing fraud and lying to the public about package labeling and stuff.
2020-01-30T16:47:55 < doomba> e.g. they pay government agencies to allow them to label shit as "grass fed" because they threw a handful of grass in the feed lot one time
2020-01-30T16:48:54 < doomba> and on the extreme end, you have this growing anti-meat position
2020-01-30T16:49:06 < Cracki> yes murder all farm animals
2020-01-30T16:49:14 < Cracki> that'll make the world a better place
2020-01-30T16:49:18 < doomba> which i'm not opposed to - but again - because of greed - we're going about it all wrong
2020-01-30T16:49:45 < doomba> instead of saying "hey meat is not good. eat more vegetables." the food industry is doing what they do best. marketing.
2020-01-30T16:49:56 < doomba> and selling people crap like impossible foods beyond beef burgers
2020-01-30T16:50:03 < Cracki> aha, they have the CAFO/AFO labels for "farms" that don't let their livestock graze
2020-01-30T16:50:03 < doomba> which is literally junk food
2020-01-30T16:50:13 < doomba> you might as well just eat bags of potato chips every day. same thing
2020-01-30T16:50:22 < doomba> yet they're marketing the stuff as safe/healthy alternatives to meat
2020-01-30T16:50:32 < Cracki> of course it's junk food
2020-01-30T16:51:06 < Cracki> why the hell else would they have to "transmutate" those ingredients into something unrecognizable
2020-01-30T16:51:28 < doomba> because it's the only way they can sell it, yeah
2020-01-30T16:51:48 < BrainDamage> on a semi-related parenthesis, I don't understand how can someone dislike 'vegetables', they are so widely varied and different in tasting I don't understand how you can dislike the whole thing
2020-01-30T16:51:53 < doomba> by very deceitful marketing and catering to "programmed" SJW vegan tranny masses that are controlled by google
2020-01-30T16:51:55 < BrainDamage> might as well say you don't like 'food'
2020-01-30T16:52:11 < Cracki> who dislikes veggies?
2020-01-30T16:52:18 < doomba> muricans
2020-01-30T16:52:20 < BrainDamage> I know lot of people who claim so
2020-01-30T16:52:29 < Cracki> particular ones like spinach or broccoli are popular to hate among children but that's it?
2020-01-30T16:52:37 < Cracki> they don't know how to properly prepare them
2020-01-30T16:52:39 < doomba> muricans hate veggies yet they eat them all day every day because the american diet - even the meat - is like 30% soy
2020-01-30T16:52:59 < Cracki> brussels sprouts for example, when you steam or cook them, they're awful. you need to fry them a little at least
2020-01-30T16:53:01 < doomba> and all the vegetable oils in _everything_
2020-01-30T16:53:20 < karlp> heh, like this statement in latest st mailout, "... and are produced in no-tariff countries."
2020-01-30T16:53:20 < doomba> Cracki: sheeeeeit i made bacon wrapped brussel sprouts on new years
2020-01-30T16:53:30 < Cracki> damn, those must taste great
2020-01-30T16:53:36 < doomba> they were
2020-01-30T16:53:52 < doomba> pretty easy to make too you just wrap them in bacon and put them in the oven
2020-01-30T16:53:58 < doomba> glaze with a little bit of honey
2020-01-30T16:54:10 < Cracki> does the sprout get brown too?
2020-01-30T16:54:41 < Cracki> honey, now you're putting it on
2020-01-30T16:55:19 < doomba> the first batch i did came out terrible tho
2020-01-30T16:55:28 < doomba> i didn't get the bacon crispy enough
2020-01-30T16:56:02 < Cracki> manure on field https://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Datei:Sleufkouterbemester_gleufjes.jpg
2020-01-30T16:56:20 < Cracki> ye, they're having to deal with rising nitrate concentrations
2020-01-30T16:56:50 < Cracki> I think they "fix" that by planting some nitrogen sequestrating crops in the meanwhile
2020-01-30T16:59:28 < Cracki> saw one documentary where they use satellite measurements of soil composition to plan exactly in which square meter they add how much manure
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2020-01-30T17:08:23 < Cracki> oh, right, muricans have *those* huge farms. totally forgot. https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/7/75/Feedlot-1.jpg
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2020-01-30T17:14:33 < mawk> then they wonder why we don't want their beef
2020-01-30T17:14:45 < mawk> and threaten of tax retaliation on wine and cheese
2020-01-30T17:15:20 < mawk> cheese is a delicacy, hormone-fed beef is the quintessence of a shithole civilization
2020-01-30T17:20:04 < Cracki> heh, manure is a problem, especially transport over large distances. says here they can dry poultry shit but they can't feasibly dry cow and pig shit
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2020-01-30T17:33:18 < Cracki> wat, farmers who *rent* the pigs and own the shit? didn't expect that
2020-01-30T17:36:03 < specing> the whole meat industry is fucked up
2020-01-30T17:36:21 < karlp> and then there's fish :)
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2020-01-30T17:43:19 < Cracki> hunting rats in dc https://youtu.be/ijp_Bg7Lkpo?t=108
2020-01-30T17:43:38 < Cracki> those aren't pebbles! :D
2020-01-30T17:49:49 < bitmask> https://imgur.com/a/Pwb5eXC
2020-01-30T17:49:59 < bitmask> too bad it doesnt fit on my print bed, gotta cut it down the middle
2020-01-30T17:53:01 < Cracki> how about upright, some printers have more room z-wise
2020-01-30T17:53:28 < Cracki> hm ok, those slots wouldn't print all that nicely if it were upright
2020-01-30T17:55:26 < karlp> cant' you just make it a bunch of flat plats and acetone weld it or glue or something?
2020-01-30T17:55:41 < karlp> 3d printed doesn't have to mean _THREE_D printed always does it?
2020-01-30T17:58:59 < bitmask> I am printing it that way, just a bunch of plates
2020-01-30T17:59:30 < bitmask> the thing is that microwave transformers are heavy, so acetone welding (I'm not using abs anyway) and glue wont be strong enough, screws it is
2020-01-30T17:59:46 < bitmask> and I cant print vertically, my printer frame is acrylic and sucks going higher than like 100mm
2020-01-30T17:59:52 < bitmask> and it wouldnt fit anyway
2020-01-30T18:00:50 < bitmask> i'll just have to cut it in half and use screws
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2020-01-30T20:54:58 < Laurenceb> >Lauren Southern is having a babby
2020-01-30T20:55:03 < Laurenceb> inb4 its black
2020-01-30T21:00:22 < jpa-> are you the dad?
2020-01-30T21:01:09 < Laurenceb> not black enough :(
2020-01-30T21:01:43 < Laurenceb> https://thehill.com/blogs/blog-briefing-room/news/480608-portion-of-newly-built-wall-on-mexico-border-collapses
2020-01-30T21:01:47 < Laurenceb> keeek
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2020-01-30T21:17:51 < mawk> give me a picture of you Laurenceb 
2020-01-30T21:17:54 < mawk> in doctor outfit
2020-01-30T21:18:43 < Steffanx> Google: Karman line, Laurence. 
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2020-01-30T21:19:01 < Steffanx> Pick the youtube result 
2020-01-30T21:20:04 < mawk> lol
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2020-01-30T21:48:12 < Thorn> first confirmed case of human to human transmission in Chicago
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2020-01-30T21:58:39 < Thorn> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sLNfwgW6rP8 LIVE Coronavirus update from the World Health Organization
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2020-01-30T23:23:16 < karlp> missing kicad feature, being able to save board stackup presets
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2020-01-30T23:39:07 < jly> good morning steffan
2020-01-30T23:39:32 < jly> and peter
2020-01-30T23:41:05 -!- catphish [~catphish@unaffiliated/catphish] has joined ##stm32
2020-01-30T23:52:40 < Steffanx> Hello steven. How can I help youM
2020-01-30T23:52:42 < Steffanx> ?
--- Day changed Fri Jan 31 2020
2020-01-31T00:03:25 < karlp> hah, jlpcb does different colours for free on two layer, but on four layer, it says "impedence control is free" but only for green.
2020-01-31T00:05:37 < bitmask> alright I made it shorter and fatter, it should fit on my print bed now: https://imgur.com/a/RSi3mLv
2020-01-31T00:09:50 < Steffanx> Ty
2020-01-31T00:10:45 < bitmask> yw
2020-01-31T00:12:18 < effractur> karlp: be aware that they are delayed ivm the virus outbreak
2020-01-31T00:15:15 < karlp> hang on wat?
2020-01-31T00:15:22 < karlp> what virus outbreak are you talking about?
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2020-01-31T00:15:47 < effractur> karlp: https://support.jlcpcb.com/article/73-jlcpcb-spring-festival-holiday-schedule
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2020-01-31T00:15:59 < karlp>  /sarcasm ?
2020-01-31T00:16:03 < karlp> everything's fucking closed dude :)
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2020-01-31T00:18:02 < karlp> aliexpress shopping cart isn't even open 
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2020-01-31T00:54:55 < doomba> the lcsc/jlcpcb facility is like some remote prison camp isolated from any city
2020-01-31T00:55:07 < doomba> they live there for 2 years or something
2020-01-31T00:55:15 < doomba> so i'm hoping they won't be affected by bill's virus
2020-01-31T00:58:36 < fenugrec> PSA: just learned that most (all ?) knockoffs of 3DR 433/915MHz radiomodems  like https://www.aliexpress.com/item/33028410273.html don't work if powered from the 4-pin header, unless you cut a trace inside them (otherwise it enters bootmode systematically)
2020-01-31T00:59:11 < doomba> https://simulated.earth/billsvirus.mp3
2020-01-31T01:00:04 < specing> Brexit T-24 hours everyone
2020-01-31T01:00:21 < specing> Thorn: will there be a live stream? :D
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2020-01-31T01:11:36 < karlp> well, started: https://imgur.com/a/24uoqTM
2020-01-31T01:11:47 < karlp> I think I'm going to have to toss it all and start again though.
2020-01-31T01:12:02 < karlp> it realllly would prefer me to have the ports on the left, not the right.
2020-01-31T01:12:47 < karlp> why would the upstream ports be in the middle of the other ports...
2020-01-31T01:14:17 < aandrew> it would probably work better if the ports were on one side of the board and the chip on the other
2020-01-31T01:14:29 < aandrew> then the diff pairs would not want to "curl around" 
2020-01-31T01:17:59 < karlp> they're mostly jsut going straight to it, other than the upstream port and my downstream port (which is just a name) 
2020-01-31T01:18:21 < karlp> it's more these damn double high usb ports,
2020-01-31T01:18:28 < karlp> considering vertical instead.
2020-01-31T01:20:02 < karlp> whole thing's way more of a timesuck than I ever expected .)
2020-01-31T01:23:18 < karlp> but hey, that's teh first ever 4 layer board even setup
2020-01-31T01:24:47 < doomba> 4 layer so much easier
2020-01-31T01:25:11 < doomba> i was in via hell
2020-01-31T01:25:41 < doomba> then 4 layer saved me
2020-01-31T01:27:11 < bitmask> 4 layers sounds scary
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2020-01-31T01:43:21 < Laurenceb> WHO declares bio-terrorist Sam Hyde is behind Corona virus
2020-01-31T01:46:35 < dongs> karlp: does kikecad not support oval holes
2020-01-31T01:47:35 < Laurenceb> I read that as Oral holes
2020-01-31T01:47:39 < Laurenceb> too much internet
2020-01-31T01:51:50 < Laurenceb> >"Tell me Grandma Ching! Why do you wear the mask!?"
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2020-01-31T04:46:03 < turnip420> warning: lots of weiners on #ubuntu
2020-01-31T04:51:29 < Cracki> what else is new
2020-01-31T04:56:34 < turnip420> funny
2020-01-31T04:57:12 < turnip420> so is l0de on this channel or....?
2020-01-31T05:18:39 < dongs> why dont you /part and find out
2020-01-31T05:19:46 < BillsBatVirus> is
2020-01-31T05:20:27 < BillsBatVirus> my lurker script shows at least one match between ##stm32 and #efnetnews
2020-01-31T05:27:22 < aandrew> lol
2020-01-31T05:27:59 < aandrew> so the first big issue is that this rf library is built for 32-bit native values (including pointers)
2020-01-31T05:28:38 < dongs> why is that a concern on stm32
2020-01-31T05:28:44 < aandrew> it's not
2020-01-31T05:28:49 < aandrew> and I'm not
2020-01-31T05:56:39 < BillsBatVirus> lol i just thought
2020-01-31T05:57:00 < BillsBatVirus> you know how jlcpcb sends little gifts in the orders?
2020-01-31T05:57:33 < BillsBatVirus> so far i have received little magnifying glass rulers and heart shaped pink rubber keychains with jlcpcb logo on them
2020-01-31T05:58:07 < BillsBatVirus> i'd die if they sent me a a bat wing ramen in my next order
2020-01-31T06:12:27 < Cracki> looked for coronavirus plushies, this is all I found https://www.etsy.com/listing/760784612/corona-virus-crocheted-model-toy-and
2020-01-31T06:15:26 < BillsBatVirus> false advertising. says hypoallergic
2020-01-31T06:18:57 < Cracki> arcgis page says 213 dead 187 recovered, that's 53%, keeping steady
2020-01-31T06:23:46 < BillsBatVirus> 213 dead and 187 out of how many infected?
2020-01-31T06:24:04 < Cracki> 9770 or so
2020-01-31T06:24:11 < Cracki> they're still cooking
2020-01-31T06:24:14 < BillsBatVirus> so not 53% ?
2020-01-31T06:24:30 < Cracki> it takes a while for ppl to die
2020-01-31T06:24:47 < Cracki> most infected ones haven't had time to keel over, as I said
2020-01-31T06:25:13 < Cracki> and dead/(dead+recovered) is the most stable, if scary, number I can think of
2020-01-31T06:25:48 < Cracki> dead/total cases would be ~2% *so far*.
2020-01-31T06:25:59 < Cracki> but that's a gross underestimation of its gravity
2020-01-31T06:26:01 < BillsBatVirus> yea unfortunately we won't get a better number until the normies spread this shit all over the place
2020-01-31T06:27:18 < Cracki> then there's the matter of this virus not being "color-blind" and a host of other factors that woke europeans can use to paint their world a rose color
2020-01-31T06:28:28 < BillsBatVirus> yea the US is super fucked because if it gets out of control here, there's nothing anyone can do
2020-01-31T06:28:37 < BillsBatVirus> we can't lock cities down like china can
2020-01-31T06:28:43 < BillsBatVirus> people are too dumbshit
2020-01-31T06:28:50 < Cracki> ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
2020-01-31T06:29:03 < Cracki> the preppers with ICBM silos in the mountains will survive
2020-01-31T06:29:36 < Cracki> their genetics likely give higher chance to neuroses but they'd still be way behind the number one tribe known for its neuroses
2020-01-31T06:30:35 < BillsBatVirus> i have a bag of different vegetable seeds, a kobo reader full of bushcraft and survival books, solar panels, a van
2020-01-31T06:30:56 < Cracki> advantage of docile europeans: they won't panic and plunder grocery stores (or stores of footwear and flatscreen TVs!), they trust their government, earned or not
2020-01-31T06:31:07 < BillsBatVirus> tomorrow i'm filling up the gas tank and stocking up on some dry food and water filters
2020-01-31T06:31:11 < Cracki> very forward-thinking of you
2020-01-31T06:31:15 < BillsBatVirus> yea
2020-01-31T06:31:34 < BillsBatVirus> like i'm sure we're probably fine but if it gets out of control, the first thing i'm doing is gtfo away from civilization
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2020-01-31T06:31:59 < Cracki> that thin blue line between civ and chaos really is a glow-in-the-dark biofilm
2020-01-31T06:32:08 < BillsBatVirus> in murica yea
2020-01-31T06:32:21 < BillsBatVirus> if the media starts panicking, shit goes to hell instantly
2020-01-31T06:32:23 < BillsBatVirus> like
2020-01-31T06:32:24 < Cracki> in france the cops now clobber firemen
2020-01-31T06:32:34 < Cracki> the nerve!
2020-01-31T06:32:42 < BillsBatVirus> that's why i need to buy the stuff now because all it takes is one viral fb post and the stores go empty in 30 minutes
2020-01-31T06:33:28 < Cracki> get a few trained dogs maybe
2020-01-31T06:33:33 < Cracki> personal protection
2020-01-31T06:33:36 < BillsBatVirus> americans don't grocery shop like europeans do either
2020-01-31T06:33:41 < Cracki> dogs don't run out of bullets
2020-01-31T06:33:58 < BillsBatVirus> like
2020-01-31T06:34:16 < Cracki> i figure. when I go grocery shopping, one or two smallish jute bags are enough to carry my stuff for half a week out of the store
2020-01-31T06:34:25 < BillsBatVirus> whenever there's some panic, it's always the welfare recipient fat bitches with 15 kids that clear out the shelves
2020-01-31T06:34:31 < Cracki> americans have those trucks
2020-01-31T06:34:42 < BillsBatVirus> yeah people here buy whole truckloads every week
2020-01-31T06:34:52 < Cracki> they need to maintain their fat reserves because if they starve, all the toxins would be released from those fat cells and they'd die instantly
2020-01-31T06:35:04 < BillsBatVirus> lol yea p much
2020-01-31T06:35:13 < Cracki> that's also what kills some people in hospitals, the restricted caloric intake
2020-01-31T06:35:35 < BillsBatVirus> that's not really a thing tho
2020-01-31T06:35:43 < BillsBatVirus> unless your liver sucks ass
2020-01-31T06:35:54 < BillsBatVirus> i.e. you're diabetic af
2020-01-31T06:35:57 < Cracki> or you've been slowly poisoned with something :>
2020-01-31T06:36:07 < Cracki> are you implying that being diabetic is rare? :>
2020-01-31T06:36:36 < BillsBatVirus> a normal non-diabetic fatass is very unlikely to die from rapid weight loss due to built-up toxins in their fat stores
2020-01-31T06:37:27 < BillsBatVirus> besides, the fat isn't "released" or w/e
2020-01-31T06:37:35 < BillsBatVirus> it's transformed into different molecules and exhaled
2020-01-31T06:37:41 < Cracki> sure
2020-01-31T06:37:46 < Cracki> it's not about the fat
2020-01-31T06:37:52 < Cracki> it's about what else is stored in those cells
2020-01-31T06:38:07 < BillsBatVirus> yea that stuff gets broken down or flushed out
2020-01-31T06:38:52 < BillsBatVirus> you def go toxic if you lose weight too fast here
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2020-01-31T07:38:51 < Laurenceb> Bills daughter got Pharoed
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2020-01-31T09:20:32 < Thorn> Electron launch https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=af-PplDIkbc
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2020-01-31T09:59:48 < jadew> is it done?
2020-01-31T10:01:56 < jadew> 2:56 UTC...
2020-01-31T10:02:13 < jadew> Thorn, you're getting sloppy
2020-01-31T10:11:35 < jadew> that nCoV tracking page was so successful they had people on it to make it better
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2020-01-31T10:11:46 < jadew> 2k more infected since yesterday
2020-01-31T10:12:30 < jadew> recovery rate still under 50%
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2020-01-31T10:14:01 < jadew> new cases in Europe: 2 in Italy
2020-01-31T10:14:22 < jadew> and I think one in France
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2020-01-31T10:14:55 < jadew> oh, there's one in Finland
2020-01-31T10:15:02 < jadew> but that was since yesterday, isn't it?
2020-01-31T10:15:20 < jadew> in Japan the number has also risen
2020-01-31T10:15:52 < jadew> so... what happens to money if half the population dies?
2020-01-31T10:16:03 < jadew> I guess land becomes worthless
2020-01-31T10:16:27 < jadew> new recession due to real estate lonas
2020-01-31T10:16:35 < jadew> money value drops
2020-01-31T10:18:56 < jadew> how long does this illness last?
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2020-01-31T10:23:05 < jadew> https://www.nationalgeographic.com/science/2020/01/how-coronavirus-spreads-on-a-plane/#/01_virusplane_ap_20023354695993.jpg
2020-01-31T10:23:12 < jadew> those black masks look really pro
2020-01-31T10:24:07 < jadew> I think that if you're going to wear a mask, you should also be wearing glasses
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2020-01-31T10:39:22 < Steffanx> ##corona32 .
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2020-01-31T11:53:25 < Thorn> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jCjSfaYdrJo
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2020-01-31T13:36:30 < karlp> dongs: no idea re oval holes, I agree some of those footprints look like shit, but they're jsut first ones I grabbed, no way I should need such massive holes for them really.
2020-01-31T13:39:30 < qyx> oval holes are supported
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2020-01-31T15:52:57 < jpa-> yeah, oval holes work fine in kicad, but some gerber viewers don't show them correctly
2020-01-31T16:01:38 < BillsBatVirus> https://www.zdnet.com/article/def-con-china-conference-put-on-hold-due-to-coronavirus-outbreak/
2020-01-31T16:02:05 < BillsBatVirus> nCoV is for antisec
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2020-01-31T17:01:32 < jpa-> italy has two nCoV patients, they declare national emergency :D
2020-01-31T17:06:58 < onio> Hi all, anyone here using uVision ARM Keil for STM32 by any chance having problem with configuration tool
2020-01-31T17:09:37 < karlp> yeah, been there for a week, they've quarantined the hotel, but the ones on the cruise ship? fuckit, let everyone off.
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2020-01-31T17:39:19 < englishman> onio, what configuration tool would that be
2020-01-31T17:39:49 < invzim> goddamn corono
2020-01-31T17:39:51 < invzim> corona
2020-01-31T17:40:02 < invzim> got this from pcbcart, "Really so sorry, our government announced it will delay resumption
2020-01-31T17:40:05 < invzim> of work to February 9 because of a a novel coronavirus."
2020-01-31T17:42:43 < onio> englishman https://imgur.com/a/IXfFIrH
2020-01-31T17:43:56 < englishman> oh, I think I used that once... then switched to stm32cubemx
2020-01-31T17:43:58 < onio> englishman, the message "install missing component" how do I get rid ofit
2020-01-31T17:44:25 < englishman> there's a panel where you install baps and other Keil software
2020-01-31T17:44:36 < englishman> it's like a green square on the toolbar
2020-01-31T17:44:38 < englishman> pack manager
2020-01-31T17:44:39 < englishman> iirc
2020-01-31T17:48:40 < onio> Is this what you mean? https://imgur.com/a/el52OT8
2020-01-31T17:57:01 < qyx> we have no nCoV so far
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2020-01-31T18:02:58 < onio> englishman, cannot find iirc
2020-01-31T18:06:56 < jpa-> iirc = if i recall correctly
2020-01-31T18:08:25 < karlp> invzim: yar, feb 10 is really just, "next updates feb 10" :) 
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2020-01-31T18:10:35 < onio> jpa-, ah that joke is on me
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2020-01-31T18:12:39 < jpa-> so, is https://www.multi-circuit-boards.eu/ the best (=cheapest) place for pcbs in europe or does someone know another?
2020-01-31T18:13:35 < fenugrec> jpa-, olimex used to have pcbs
2020-01-31T18:13:47 < qyx> aisler maybe
2020-01-31T18:13:55 < qyx> idk if the price is comparable
2020-01-31T18:14:09 < fenugrec> ah, not anymore "This PCB manufacturing service is suspended."
2020-01-31T18:14:12 < jpa-> fenugrec: didn't they stop that years ago
2020-01-31T18:15:18 < jpa-> qyx: thanks, looks cheaper
2020-01-31T18:15:36 < qyx> karlp approved too
2020-01-31T18:15:48 < qyx> I didn't order from them yet
2020-01-31T18:16:50 < fenugrec> englishman, any lower-tier pcb fabs left in Canada ? capitale is $
2020-01-31T18:16:58 < karlp> aisler is ok pcb quality, but billing and shipping is a little tedious.
2020-01-31T18:17:35 < karlp> they're too cool to have a shopping cart and getting invoices or tracking your orders is dum
2020-01-31T18:17:45 < karlp> pcbs and stencils themselves perfectly fine though :)
2020-01-31T18:28:15 < bitmask> https://www.digitalcameraworld.com/news/worlds-smallest-camera-is-size-of-a-grain-of-sand
2020-01-31T18:30:04 < Cracki> 200x200 pixel
2020-01-31T18:30:15 < Cracki> definitely endoscope class :P
2020-01-31T18:31:01 < Cracki> fiber optic cable is probably thicker than those pixels, makes sense
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2020-01-31T18:34:23 < specing> so its an endoscope for inspecting fiber optic cabling?
2020-01-31T18:35:23 < Laurenceb> https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/technology-51324891
2020-01-31T18:35:26 < Laurenceb> serious news
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2020-01-31T18:39:41 < Laurenceb> because of racism. aldis is the hitler of grocery chains. they sell german food same as what hitler ate, and hitler liked boxing, and you box things yourself at aldis, and hitler didn’t smoke, and they don’t sell tobacco at aldis.
2020-01-31T18:48:03 < jpa-> bitmask: but where can i buy it :|
2020-01-31T18:48:15 < bitmask> heh
2020-01-31T18:49:59 < jpa-> seriously, it would be a cool part, especially as it has analog output
2020-01-31T18:50:03 < Laurenceb> https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/rachel-riley-of-countdown-finds-her-jewish-roots-to-take-on-the-corbynistas-7hdmshx7f
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2020-01-31T19:08:58 < englishman> fenugrec: haha
2020-01-31T19:09:13 < englishman> they are one of the cheapest.
2020-01-31T19:09:20 < englishman> if not the cheapest
2020-01-31T19:10:24 < specing> Laurence got muted? :PPP
2020-01-31T19:10:37 < BillsBatVirus> i think as we're now getting to the point where circuit boards can be made out of platsic and fabrics, it's only a matter of time before somebody creates a huge matrix of either very tiny low pixel density cameras or light/color sensors that are tied to leds.
2020-01-31T19:11:04 < fenugrec> englishman, o I had it backwards. thought they were at the other end of the spectrum
2020-01-31T19:11:09 < specing> BillsBatVirus: circuit boards have been made out of plastic and fabric for a long long time
2020-01-31T19:11:32 < BillsBatVirus> specing: yes but is it cost effective to get at scale?
2020-01-31T19:11:38 < BillsBatVirus> for a hobbyist?
2020-01-31T19:12:19 < BillsBatVirus> i want to make the predator suit out of cameras and LEDs
2020-01-31T19:12:31 < specing> Lol
2020-01-31T19:12:41 < BillsBatVirus> here's why i think it would actually work
2020-01-31T19:12:59 < specing> BillsBatVirus: yes, its very cheap
2020-01-31T19:13:03 < BillsBatVirus> when i was a kid a saw a documentary about WWI and WWII camouflage where they said they would put racks of light bulbs over tanks.
2020-01-31T19:13:12 < specing> FR4 boards are glass fibers and epoxy (plastic) holding them together
2020-01-31T19:13:23 < BillsBatVirus> from a distance, the light bulbs would conceal the tanks on the horizon when the sun was in the right position in the sky
2020-01-31T19:13:38 < specing> right.
2020-01-31T19:14:02 < BillsBatVirus> so you're not exactly "bending" light. you're just more or less taking light from behind you and presenting it in front of you at the right color.
2020-01-31T19:14:10 < BillsBatVirus> obviously at night, this would not work at all
2020-01-31T19:14:20 < Cracki> using just leds violates all kinds of light transport equations
2020-01-31T19:14:36 < BillsBatVirus> but in daylight, it would be like an adaptive camouflage - like a chameleon's scales
2020-01-31T19:14:44 < Cracki> a chameleon suit would only work when you're right up against a wall
2020-01-31T19:14:51 < Cracki> otherwise it's all blurry averages
2020-01-31T19:15:03 < BillsBatVirus> but those blurry averages would still be something
2020-01-31T19:15:11 < Cracki> best you can do is synthesize the textures you see
2020-01-31T19:15:21 < BillsBatVirus> yea Cracki that's what i'm talking about
2020-01-31T19:15:42 < Cracki> if you want something approaching a real cloak, you need to emit light fields
2020-01-31T19:15:53 < BillsBatVirus> there's no way to make it perfect because observers will be looking from all angles that are difficult to impossible to account for
2020-01-31T19:16:18 < specing> BillsBatVirus: how does a chameleon colour itself in a room full of mirrors?
2020-01-31T19:16:21 < Cracki> there are 3d displays using parallax and prisms
2020-01-31T19:16:41 < Cracki> so it's not entirely out of the question to send different light to different angles
2020-01-31T19:16:44 < BillsBatVirus> i'm just trying to make a poor man's predator suit. and if LEDs were used, could throw in IR leds to show up as a giant bright blob on cameras
2020-01-31T19:17:00 < Cracki> you already show up as a giant bright blob on IR
2020-01-31T19:17:05 < BillsBatVirus> the goal is to create affordable options for people to survive the technocratic dystopia
2020-01-31T19:17:07 < Cracki> wrap yourself in tin foil if you don't
2020-01-31T19:17:52 < BillsBatVirus> there is a clothing company that specializes in anti-surveillance
2020-01-31T19:18:05 < Cracki> that kinda camo wouldn't be effective in daylight because there you'd need to match the sun's brightness
2020-01-31T19:18:17 < BillsBatVirus> https://adversarialfashion.com/
2020-01-31T19:18:35 < BillsBatVirus> here's one that makes anti-LPR clothing
2020-01-31T19:18:48 < Cracki> if you want anti-surveillance clothing, get stuff that has no specific features, i.e. quasi uniform. bluejeans, the most average shirt, etc
2020-01-31T19:19:01 < BillsBatVirus> yea. that's what i do already
2020-01-31T19:19:14 < BillsBatVirus> gray man style
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2020-01-31T19:19:24 < Cracki> cute
2020-01-31T19:19:30 < BillsBatVirus> what i'm talking about is stuff that is more subversive
2020-01-31T19:19:31 < Cracki> license plates :D
2020-01-31T19:19:46 < Cracki> sniper rifle to take out static cameras
2020-01-31T19:19:51 < BillsBatVirus> to confuse facial recognition and video surveillance
2020-01-31T19:20:08 < Cracki> dropping barrels of anfo down manholes
2020-01-31T19:20:32 < Cracki> sending foia requests to everyone
2020-01-31T19:20:36 < BillsBatVirus> but at hte same time being fashionable and not obvious that you're wearing clothing intended to do such
2020-01-31T19:20:56 < Cracki> breeding plague rats and mailing them
2020-01-31T19:21:26 < BillsBatVirus> sending foia requests rofl
2020-01-31T19:21:34 < BillsBatVirus> pointless
2020-01-31T19:22:03 < Cracki> send envelopes with lorem ipsum
2020-01-31T19:22:49 < Cracki> send termites, make sure they stay in customs for a while so they can eat though their own cardboard and everyone else's
2020-01-31T19:23:37 < BillsBatVirus> all the things you're talking about are just annoyances
2020-01-31T19:23:53 < BillsBatVirus> that only make the surveillance state more resilient and justify its expansion
2020-01-31T19:24:08 < BillsBatVirus> and i'm brainstorming ideas to respond to that
2020-01-31T19:24:12 < Cracki> hack billboards in view of traffic cams to display license plates
2020-01-31T19:24:18 < BillsBatVirus> rofl
2020-01-31T19:24:23 < BillsBatVirus> speaking of billboards
2020-01-31T19:24:35 < BillsBatVirus> my boss yesterday said he bought ads for these digital billboards
2020-01-31T19:24:47 < Cracki> you can change image many times a second. ALPRs may not care that "reality" changes this quickly
2020-01-31T19:24:59 < BillsBatVirus> and you go to their website and put a url for your instagram and every photo you upload with a certain tag gets put on the billboard instantly
2020-01-31T19:25:01 < BillsBatVirus> i lol'd
2020-01-31T19:25:09 < Cracki> uhhh
2020-01-31T19:25:33 < Cracki> interesting api chain
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2020-01-31T21:22:14 < mawk> there is a new pcb designer today, and it's a girl
2020-01-31T21:22:17 < mawk> but it does not look like a girl
2020-01-31T21:22:19 < mawk> I would've preferred a nice plant
2020-01-31T21:22:45 < specing> LOL
2020-01-31T21:23:55 < Cracki> does it have hair color
2020-01-31T21:24:33 < mawk> no, but I'll wait a bit before talking politics at noon
2020-01-31T21:24:34 < Cracki> how sure you that it's a girl
2020-01-31T21:25:10 < mawk> lol
2020-01-31T21:26:13 < specing> Does it have a girl's name?
2020-01-31T21:26:43 < Cracki> just saw some youtuber watermarking his video... it's a static overlay, *can* be removed with some optical flow analysis... watermarks could be made resistant to that if they look like plastered onto surfaces and moving with them
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2020-01-31T23:03:58 < invzim> 5V@8A buck, from 20V (usb-c) - looking at this, https://docs.rs-online.com/ab5b/0900766b81676eae.pdf
2020-01-31T23:04:23 < invzim> seems to be less complicated than some of the atrocities from TI
2020-01-31T23:05:12 < invzim> zero experience with switching regulators, anyone got a fav part?
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2020-01-31T23:12:45 < specing> 8A sounds like a lot
2020-01-31T23:13:53 < qyx> external fets probably
2020-01-31T23:14:36 < karlp> no, 11mohm internals, 
2020-01-31T23:14:38 < karlp> looks like a nice part
2020-01-31T23:15:05 < qyx> that thing doesn't look bad
2020-01-31T23:15:42 < qyx> 2u2 for 8A is going to be quite big
2020-01-31T23:15:46 < karlp> Ii think dongs has recommended SY8366 for similar operation and osmeone else recommended TPS54820
2020-01-31T23:16:10 < qyx> I used TPS54 something for 4A
2020-01-31T23:17:10 < karlp> recommended inductor on that rohm part is only 10mmx10mm
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2020-01-31T23:17:14 < karlp> nto horrible
2020-01-31T23:17:28 < karlp> 1.60€ on mouser though, which is horrible
2020-01-31T23:18:33 < qyx> speaking of TPS, I found another nice one, TPS62740, 360nA Iq
2020-01-31T23:18:37 < specing> open lcsc and type smps into it?
2020-01-31T23:18:58 < karlp> well, lcsc might never re-open :)
2020-01-31T23:19:13 < qyx> I am going to use it for supercap->1V8
2020-01-31T23:19:59 < karlp> rohm part is like $3 too. fuck that.
2020-01-31T23:21:23 < karlp> firefox rejects ocotparts certificate.
2020-01-31T23:21:26 < karlp> fucking stupid
2020-01-31T23:23:31 < Steffanx> Works fine here
2020-01-31T23:41:21 < invzim> he, the rohm sample request form has no qty restriction it seems
--- Log closed Sat Feb 01 00:00:47 2020