--- Log opened Wed Apr 01 00:00:15 2020
2020-04-01T00:10:07 < Steffanx> What will the SMA connector be used for kakimir?
2020-04-01T00:10:15 < kakimir> zero sma
2020-04-01T00:10:52 < qyx> mh, jlcpcb shipped with ePacket
2020-04-01T00:11:04 < qyx> now, after 3 days, it cancelled the shipment
2020-04-01T00:11:15 < qyx> went back to "processing" status
2020-04-01T00:11:24 < qyx> and the shipment method changed to DHL
2020-04-01T00:11:44 < qyx> such upgrade
2020-04-01T00:14:59 < Steffanx> Such extra customs fee
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2020-04-01T00:15:55 < qyx> that too, fuk
2020-04-01T00:16:09 < qyx> oh maybe not, there is still the exception under 22€ or so
2020-04-01T00:16:20 < qyx> its only $6 worth of pcbs
2020-04-01T00:16:48 < Laurenceb> sheet
2020-04-01T00:16:53 < Laurenceb> over 4k dead in a day
2020-04-01T00:17:01 < Steffanx> Oh that's alright indeed qyx. 
2020-04-01T00:17:12 < qyx> every day. 2/3 of wtc
2020-04-01T00:17:20 < Steffanx> Lol keep shaking those hands Laurenceb 
2020-04-01T00:17:45 < Laurenceb> I'll cough on the thots
2020-04-01T00:17:49 < Steffanx> 4k in the UK or total ?
2020-04-01T00:17:58 < Laurenceb> total for world today so far
2020-04-01T00:18:03 < Steffanx> Oh
2020-04-01T00:19:01 < mawk> how are you doing Steffanx 
2020-04-01T00:19:08 < Steffanx> Each day 150k people die?
2020-04-01T00:19:14 < Steffanx> I'm good ty. Mawk 
2020-04-01T00:19:30 < Steffanx> Although I'm not enjoying working from home as I expected
2020-04-01T00:20:01 < Steffanx> First week was fine, but now it's no longer "fine" 
2020-04-01T00:21:05 < qyx> why
2020-04-01T00:21:11 < Laurenceb> oh wow 
2020-04-01T00:21:15 < Laurenceb>  /r/WGTOW
2020-04-01T00:21:35 < Laurenceb> >pink-pilled
2020-04-01T00:22:18 < Steffanx> I'm not sure qyx. Seems I'm getting more distracted. And the work-home line is gone. 
2020-04-01T00:22:48 < Steffanx> As in: Go home, be done with work. 
2020-04-01T00:23:28 < Steffanx> Imagine working from home with kids. Must be hellish :P
2020-04-01T00:24:30 < BrainDamage> yes, working from home is suitable for few
2020-04-01T00:24:45 < qyx> it is hellish
2020-04-01T00:25:46 < BrainDamage> maybe if you have some sort of dedicated studio it may work
2020-04-01T00:26:04 < BrainDamage> and you'd have to eg take a walk for a while to have a transition time too
2020-04-01T00:26:26 < Steffanx> It could work for me when I didnt have a boss that expect me to work 8 hours/day. Now those 8 hours are spread over my entire day. 
2020-04-01T00:27:01 < Steffanx> Expects*
2020-04-01T00:27:49 < qyx> yeah you work all day and when you look into your worklog and start counting hours, it is under 6
2020-04-01T00:28:45 < Steffanx> Hah, for me it would be 8 / day on average. 
2020-04-01T00:29:13 < Steffanx> Especially when I just compare it with my average work day in the office. No one can be 100% effective 
2020-04-01T00:33:15 < ds2> Steffanx: (from yesterday) - TotalPhase is purposely cripling support for the Beagle12 to sell more Beagle480's... that's their answer in a nut shell when I asked them at an event
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2020-04-01T01:21:37 < doomba> Is there a tax I can pay to stop the spread of covid-19, or does that only work for climate change?
2020-04-01T01:22:37 < nn7> letting a good portion of the population die will allow the economy to get back on track faster.
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2020-04-01T01:35:12 < specing> doomba: taxes as currently applied don't work for climate change
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2020-04-01T02:19:52 < Laurenceb> what a time to be alive
2020-04-01T02:20:01 < Laurenceb> press f5 to watch the muricans die
2020-04-01T02:20:16 < nn7> didn't work for me
2020-04-01T02:23:35 < Laurenceb> https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/country/us/
2020-04-01T02:24:01 < Laurenceb>  *Taleban cheering*
2020-04-01T02:26:37 < nn7> my boss believes that, "this coronavirus is just a ploy to make Trump look bad."
2020-04-01T02:27:08 < Laurenceb> Hillary did it underneath Comet pizza
2020-04-01T02:27:22 < Laurenceb> but dont worry, its all part of Q's plan
2020-04-01T02:27:26 < Laurenceb> TRUST THE PLAN
2020-04-01T02:29:09 < doomba> CIA Qanon
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2020-04-01T03:53:35 < Cracki> german deaths under 60: 26 males, five females
2020-04-01T03:53:53 < Cracki> 60s: 32 vs 12. 70s: 102 vs 28
2020-04-01T03:53:59 < Cracki> those poor poor women
2020-04-01T03:54:16 < Laurenceb> thot patrol
2020-04-01T03:54:46 < Cracki> https://www.snopes.com/tachyon/2015/12/hillary-clinton-quote.jpg
2020-04-01T04:06:02 < Thorn> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TrqQxl5o3eg musics
2020-04-01T04:08:51 < englishman> haha
2020-04-01T04:11:21 < Cracki> bringt das Blut in Wallung
2020-04-01T04:11:40 < Cracki> except for the hammer and sickle
2020-04-01T04:12:44 < Laurenceb> https://external-preview.redd.it/eI6H7-t3DbYGgY3PQ53_8NfRZE0xwpX-M8xeFqQERbc.jpg?width=960&crop=smart&auto=webp&s=e49cb9da68610d8f8a17f61cded5bdf5bc8b70dd
2020-04-01T04:15:24 < doomba> chuck norris has covid. the virus is on life support now.
2020-04-01T04:15:44 < Thorn> Putin likely infected
2020-04-01T04:20:29 < jly> nobody would ever know
2020-04-01T04:39:59 < dongs> rtos trolls: xTimerCreate callback is called in what context? is it ISR? or wat
2020-04-01T04:40:37 < dongs> is the software timer made with systick or wahtevcer and they callback directly from SystickHandler when it expires?
2020-04-01T04:41:30 < dongs> The FreeRTOS implementation does not execute timer callback functions from an interrupt context, does not consume any processing time unless a timer has actually expired, does not add any processing overhead to the tick interrupt, and does not walk any link list structures while interrupts are disabled.
2020-04-01T04:41:36 < dongs> ok never mind had to clik one more thing to read
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2020-04-01T04:53:39 < Cracki> it doesn't say ISR so it's "normal" context
2020-04-01T04:53:49 < Cracki> their docs are unusual
2020-04-01T04:54:13 < Cracki> a list of "does not" is nice, but they need to say what it actually does do
2020-04-01T04:54:39 < Cracki> which is run a timer task
2020-04-01T04:54:59 < Cracki> so all timer events are run inside that task
2020-04-01T04:55:48 < Cracki> you can configure it to use systick but since systick should run at 1ms, it seems to be good practice to use some simple timer to drive freertos scheduler
2020-04-01T04:56:10 < Cracki> cubemx does that at least
2020-04-01T05:32:49 < Thorn> https://twitter.com/Aviation_Intel/status/1245129239617081344
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2020-04-01T05:44:58 < dongs> Cracki: yeah on that page i pasted long blog from it says it runs in the task context
2020-04-01T05:45:04 < dongs> so no sleep()/waits inside
2020-04-01T05:46:04 < Cracki> ye they calculate next wakeup from all timers and set the task to be runnable then
2020-04-01T05:48:07 < dongs> https://www.freertos.org/RTOS-software-timer.html < this hit
2020-04-01T05:48:08 < dongs> shit
2020-04-01T05:48:09 < dongs> anyway
2020-04-01T05:48:13 < dongs> docs look gay
2020-04-01T05:48:15 < dongs> freertos sucks anyway
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2020-04-01T06:07:56 < jly> A Mexican, a Jew, and a colored guy go into a bar. The bartender looks up and says, "Get the fuck out of here."
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2020-04-01T08:50:24 < jadew> my initial prediction for Spain was shit, I said they'd have 4000 deaths by April 10
2020-04-01T08:50:31 < jadew> they have 8k already
2020-04-01T08:50:38 < dongs> rip spain
2020-04-01T08:50:47 < dongs> how fucked are we, judew
2020-04-01T08:50:52 < dongs> absed on your predicitons
2020-04-01T08:51:00 < jadew> well, the later ones were almost spot on
2020-04-01T08:51:08 < Cracki> the spaniards survived muslim invasion over a thousand years ago. they'll survive this.
2020-04-01T08:51:14 < jadew> made one a week ago, and I predicted 44k today
2020-04-01T08:51:42 < jadew> I wasn't off by much
2020-04-01T08:52:20 < jadew> one week from now, we'll probably have 85-86k deaths
2020-04-01T08:52:41 < jadew> I'll update that text file I made
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2020-04-01T08:53:17 < dongs> is that worldwide
2020-04-01T08:53:52 < jadew> yeah
2020-04-01T08:53:58 < dongs> nice
2020-04-01T08:56:16 < jly> how long until australia is dead
2020-04-01T08:56:36 < dongs> according to some australian faggot i know, its already dead
2020-04-01T08:57:04 < Cracki> hey, keep track of your predictions and plot how far off they are
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2020-04-01T08:57:26 < jadew> http://188.25.126.97/stuff/ncov/trend.txt
2020-04-01T08:57:32 < Cracki> (or use your file with numbers 0..k for k=0..n, predict, compare)
2020-04-01T08:57:34 < jadew> Cracki, I am keeping track
2020-04-01T08:57:40 < jadew> see that file
2020-04-01T08:57:50 < Cracki> I see digits
2020-04-01T08:57:59 < jadew> the percentage there is the predicted error, but not compared to actual data
2020-04-01T08:58:20 < jadew> for today (the prediction made on 26th), was 3.4% off
2020-04-01T08:58:35 < dongs> The scientists leading the administration’s fight estimated the virus could kill between 100,000 and 240,000 Americans. New data suggests many as 25 percent of infected people may not show symptoms.
2020-04-01T08:59:01 < Cracki> the dude who said 2 million are gonna die, had to revise his death toll down to 20k
2020-04-01T08:59:05 < Cracki> the numbers don't add up
2020-04-01T09:02:14 < jly> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=13j8PKuixQQ
2020-04-01T09:02:26 < jly> is this april fools?
2020-04-01T09:04:28 < Streaker> dead are nowhere near the projections. even in Italy
2020-04-01T09:06:23 < dongs> jly: who?
2020-04-01T09:07:12 < jadew> Streaker, what do you mean?
2020-04-01T09:07:12 < jly> dongs: that vid about some americunts
2020-04-01T09:07:25 < jadew> who's projections?
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2020-04-01T09:08:20 < Streaker> has anyone projected less than 100's of thousands dead?
2020-04-01T09:09:01 < jadew> depends on when
2020-04-01T09:09:28 < jadew> we'll have 100 thousand dead within the next 2 weeks
2020-04-01T09:09:56 < jadew> ~10th of April
2020-04-01T09:11:03 < Cracki> I project (world pop) / (world life expectancy) deaths, pick any timespan
2020-04-01T09:11:42 < Cracki> shake the magic 8ball to get the word you can write on the death certificate
2020-04-01T09:11:57 < Streaker> Italy has ~3000 dead in a month and they're around 800 dead a day. 2 weeks is 12000.
2020-04-01T09:12:34 < Streaker> If  other countries follow a similar trajectory, I don't think the total can reach 100,000 dead.
2020-04-01T09:14:40 < jadew> I updated the margin in that text file
2020-04-01T09:14:58 < jadew> Streaker, it depends, most countries entered quarantine just recently
2020-04-01T09:15:19 < jadew> the leveling off you see in Italy is because of the quarantine measures, not because the virus has stopped spreading
2020-04-01T09:15:31 < jadew> it will keep spreading even with those measures in place, just at a lower rate
2020-04-01T09:15:53 < jadew> eventually, the predicted number of the population will get it, and the predicted number of people will die from it
2020-04-01T09:15:58 < jadew> it's just a matter of when
2020-04-01T09:16:32 < jadew> currently, we're observing a trend that reflects how the virus spreads when no measures are in place
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2020-04-01T09:16:59 < jadew> but no amount of lockdown is going to stop it, it will just delay it
2020-04-01T09:17:29 < Streaker> that's one thing that I've been thinking about. If with quarantines and ventilators, the total dead at the end of the year is going to be within +-10% of the dead if there had been no quarantine, then the question arises whether the lockdowns are serving any purpose
2020-04-01T09:18:08 < jadew> they are, most countries don't have enough ventilators to serve 10% of the infected at the peak
2020-04-01T09:18:48 < Streaker> but once a person goes on a ventilator, most of them die. so if ventilators are saving the lives of 10% of the people who go on a ventilator ...
2020-04-01T09:18:58 < jadew> a country with 20 million people with say... 30% infected at the same time, that's 6 million
2020-04-01T09:19:13 < jadew> 10% of 6 million is 600 000 ICU beds
2020-04-01T09:20:25 < jadew> I think the US is planning to go through it like this
2020-04-01T09:20:29 < jadew> we'll see what happens
2020-04-01T09:20:43 < jadew> but most of the rest of the world can't afford it, so the lockdown is necessary
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2020-04-01T09:21:46 < jadew> even small changes in those percentages translate to hundreds of thousands of people
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2020-04-01T10:22:24 < Cracki> there will not be 30% infected at any time
2020-04-01T10:24:18 < Cracki> you need to ask if we can afford the lockdown
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2020-04-01T10:50:42 < mawk> a colleague which is at the same level as me, having the virtue of having created the repository long ago, is messing with my access rights on the repo
2020-04-01T10:50:44 < mawk> jcfhskjfhk
2020-04-01T10:50:47 < mawk> I must contain myself
2020-04-01T11:02:46 < Cracki> I love when pissants abuse their access rights
2020-04-01T11:03:23 < Cracki> just keep working in your own copy (it's git, right?) and fuck him :P
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2020-04-01T11:04:09 < jadew> Cracki, you would, if left uncontained
2020-04-01T11:04:41 < Cracki> we, and by we I mean germans, have the technology to cremate lots of bodies very quickly
2020-04-01T11:04:49 < Cracki> what are you worried about
2020-04-01T11:04:53 < jadew> lol
2020-04-01T11:05:13 < Cracki> are you questioning the claims I just pull out of my ass
2020-04-01T11:05:34 < jadew> history backs your claims
2020-04-01T11:05:40 < Cracki> >_>
2020-04-01T11:06:21 < Cracki> to use the words of the mighty musk: "who do you think *owns* the media? hello."
2020-04-01T11:06:27 < Cracki> or in this case, history
2020-04-01T11:07:28 < jadew> 30% of the population means that 15% was infected ~5 days ago and that 7% was infected ~10 days ago, etc, 1.75% 20 days ago - that's very much attainable
2020-04-01T11:10:05 < Cracki> I wonder how it'd go over if someone suggested looking for the blueprints of those ovens they are said to have used back then
2020-04-01T11:10:18 < jadew> lol
2020-04-01T11:10:33 < ds2> wasn't it done by some companies that is still around today?
2020-04-01T11:10:35 < Cracki> I mean, there are people who try to recreate the building of the pyramids to better understand history
2020-04-01T11:10:58 < Cracki> there ought to be efforts to recreate and put to the test _that_ part of history as well
2020-04-01T11:11:26 < Cracki> right now there seems to be a problem of bodies stacking up. sounds like that needs a good solution
2020-04-01T11:14:06 < jadew> I heard there's a famine in Africa
2020-04-01T11:14:47 < Cracki> some typhus too maybe?
2020-04-01T11:14:57 < Cracki> there's always a famine in africa
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2020-04-01T11:15:26 < Cracki> you can't throw enough pallets of food at that continent
2020-04-01T11:16:24 < Cracki> a miracle, considering how much fertile land you have there
2020-04-01T11:17:02 < Cracki> it's all so tiresome
2020-04-01T11:17:54 < mawk> did you see the belgian documentary on congo ?
2020-04-01T11:17:56 < mawk> empire of dust
2020-04-01T11:18:19 < mawk> it's about a chinese state company that needs to build infrastructure in congo in exchange for mining rights in a cobalt mine
2020-04-01T11:18:25 < mawk> and needs to employ local workers
2020-04-01T11:18:37 < jadew> I have
2020-04-01T11:19:15 < jadew> have you guys seen the documentary about the mosquito burgers?
2020-04-01T11:19:23 < mawk> lol
2020-04-01T11:19:26 < mawk> no
2020-04-01T11:20:28 < Cracki> I will not eat the bug burger
2020-04-01T11:20:46 < jadew> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LItNFP7icUw
2020-04-01T11:20:50 < jadew> this is pretty much the jist of it
2020-04-01T11:20:57 < jadew> I don't remember the original documentary
2020-04-01T11:20:59 < Cracki> deeesgusting
2020-04-01T11:21:05 < Cracki> gist btw, like gist.github.com
2020-04-01T11:21:11 < Cracki> pronounced jist yes
2020-04-01T11:21:18 < Cracki> not to be confused with jizz
2020-04-01T11:21:55 < Thorn> jadew a perfect documentary for you https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xi29GJZllts
2020-04-01T11:23:34 < jadew> thanks, I'll watch
2020-04-01T11:24:05 < Cracki> germans have the trope of the "Schildbürger" (citizens of a town called schilda). one of the stories has them build a house without windows, and to solve the lighting situation, they catch sun rays with baskets and carry it inside
2020-04-01T11:24:25 < Cracki> the kids swatting after those insects with pots and pans reminded me of that
2020-04-01T11:25:23 < mawk> home town of rothschild
2020-04-01T11:25:51 < Cracki> that name makes me see roth
2020-04-01T11:26:01 < Cracki> mel gibson is awesome
2020-04-01T11:26:43 < jadew> oh, speaking of German specialties, I received a jar of Rumtopf from a happy customer
2020-04-01T11:27:10 < jadew> didn't open it yet, but it sounds delicious
2020-04-01T11:27:49 < PaulFertser> mawk: but are you also aware of https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Atrocities_in_the_Congo_Free_State#Red_Rubber_system_and_forced_labour ?
2020-04-01T11:28:21 < jadew> I was
2020-04-01T11:28:37 < jadew> there was a movie about that
2020-04-01T11:28:49 < jadew> but I don't remember its name, it was centered around a prison
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2020-04-01T11:32:51 < Cracki> >In 1908, as a result of international pressure, the Belgian government annexed the Congo Free State to form the Belgian Congo, and ended many of the systems responsible for the abuses.
2020-04-01T11:33:11 < Cracki> guess unbridled capitalism isn't such a good idea
2020-04-01T11:34:09 < mawk> yes PaulFertser 
2020-04-01T11:34:17 < mawk> with the belgian king
2020-04-01T11:38:14 < PaulFertser> Such a horrible story. As barbaric as it can get. Hard to imagine belgians were doing that.
2020-04-01T11:38:24 < Cracki> gah mosquito burger, it's just a black paste
2020-04-01T11:42:28 < Cracki> this is the reason I'm not adventurous about strange foods
2020-04-01T11:42:59 < mawk> it was private property of the king
2020-04-01T11:43:06 < mawk> the belgian government didn't approve I think
2020-04-01T11:43:14 < mawk> the people, dunno
2020-04-01T11:43:25 < mawk> put on some red coloring and meat glue Cracki 
2020-04-01T11:43:27 < mawk> then it's a regular steak
2020-04-01T11:43:42 < Cracki> those things aren't just protein and blood
2020-04-01T11:44:15 < mawk> blood from animals they stinged
2020-04-01T11:44:28 < mawk> and some paludisme parasites while you're at it
2020-04-01T11:44:28 < Cracki> don't call them animals!!!
2020-04-01T11:44:34 < mawk> lol
2020-04-01T11:45:44 < Cracki> I wonder if they're frying that shit long enough to kill parasites
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2020-04-01T12:13:06 < Thorn> https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2020-03-27/stacks-of-urns-in-wuhan-prompt-new-questions-of-virus-s-toll
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2020-04-01T12:36:46 < jadew> Cracki, the people in that video are now refugees, living in Germany
2020-04-01T12:37:39 < jadew> they're currently dealing with the stress of daily life and are obsessing over the covid thing
2020-04-01T12:38:37 < mawk> 10:03 <Cracki> just keep working in your own copy (it's git, right?) and fuck him :P
2020-04-01T12:38:41 < mawk> I need to push to run the CI
2020-04-01T12:38:53 < jadew> from time to time, they think back with nostalgia, to the simpler times, when they were bathing in the sun and eating flies
2020-04-01T12:38:53 < mawk> and I like force pushing my *own* repos to clean up the commits, but now I can't
2020-04-01T12:39:05 < mawk> so what I will do now is just push a garbage branch every time and delete it afterwards
2020-04-01T12:39:12 < mawk> and only when it's final push to the real branch
2020-04-01T12:39:19 < Steffanx> So tell him putain de merde and get him to fix his shit.
2020-04-01T12:39:28 < mawk> lol
2020-04-01T12:39:42 < mawk> Steffanx: 09:50 <mawk> a colleague which is at the same level as me, having the virtue of having created the repository long ago, is messing with my access rights on the repo
2020-04-01T12:39:59 < mawk> that's the issue
2020-04-01T12:40:34 < jadew> so tell him to fix it
2020-04-01T12:40:52 < Steffanx> Yes, exactly. 
2020-04-01T12:40:57 < Steffanx> I read that mawk.
2020-04-01T12:41:14 < mawk> a
2020-04-01T12:41:15 < Steffanx> So how can that not be fixed?
2020-04-01T12:41:17 < mawk> well he did it on purpose
2020-04-01T12:41:21 < Steffanx> lol what?
2020-04-01T12:41:24 < mawk> I cannot tell him to fix it if it's not a bug in his eye
2020-04-01T12:41:25 < jadew> so what?
2020-04-01T12:41:35 < Steffanx> how can he mess with your access rights?
2020-04-01T12:41:35 < jadew> you said you're on equal footing
2020-04-01T12:41:43 < mawk> yeah, in the company
2020-04-01T12:41:43 < jadew> just tell him to fix your access
2020-04-01T12:41:51 < mawk> but he's got admin rights to the repo and not me
2020-04-01T12:41:57 < jadew> so what?
2020-04-01T12:42:06 < Steffanx> What did he even break exactly for you?
2020-04-01T12:42:07 < jadew> it's not his repo to begin with
2020-04-01T12:42:16 < Steffanx> You cannot commit properly?
2020-04-01T12:42:35 < mawk> I cannot push to my own branch, he wants me to create a new branch for every commit
2020-04-01T12:42:40 < mawk> or every set of commits
2020-04-01T12:42:49 < Steffanx> and who will merge those?
2020-04-01T12:43:00 < Steffanx> to the proper branch/trunk?
2020-04-01T12:43:12 < jadew> if you're equal, then you should be able to say "no" and keep going
2020-04-01T12:43:26 < Steffanx> or is that company policy?
2020-04-01T12:43:58 < mawk> it's not policy
2020-04-01T12:44:00 < mawk> I'll get it sorted
2020-04-01T12:44:08 < mawk> why do you say trunk are you not living in the git universe ??
2020-04-01T12:44:25 < Steffanx> At work no.
2020-04-01T12:44:30 < Steffanx> beause legacy.
2020-04-01T12:44:34 < mawk> you need to quit
2020-04-01T12:44:38 < mawk> even MS WINDOWS went for git
2020-04-01T12:44:50 < Steffanx> im not convinced.
2020-04-01T12:45:13 < mawk> lol
2020-04-01T12:45:18 < mawk> they have the largest git repo in the world
2020-04-01T12:45:21 < mawk> reportedly
2020-04-01T12:45:30 < mawk> they had to develop their own lazy file system for it
2020-04-01T12:45:37 < mawk> it's in the latest windows build, you can use it
2020-04-01T12:45:49 < mawk> the support for that fs at least, it's a kind of FUSE for windows
2020-04-01T12:45:53 < karlp> so they rebuilt clearcase then?
2020-04-01T12:46:06 < mawk> I don't know
2020-04-01T12:46:24 < karlp> (clearcase buitl virtual filesystems for things decades ago for huge repos)
2020-04-01T12:46:26 < mawk> by lazy I mean not pulling the whole git repo at once because otherwise each checkout takes 4 hours
2020-04-01T12:46:31 < mawk> now it takes 30 seconds by their lazy fs
2020-04-01T12:46:33 < mawk> ahI see
2020-04-01T12:46:46 < dongs> 850 new death in spane today
2020-04-01T12:46:55 < dongs> record day
2020-04-01T12:47:01 < mawk> it's a good number
2020-04-01T12:47:03 < mawk> 850
2020-04-01T12:47:06 < mawk> could've been 849
2020-04-01T12:47:13 < mawk> => fake number
2020-04-01T12:48:28 < mawk> hmm
2020-04-01T12:48:39 < mawk> there's a law on statistical numbers, about distribution of digits
2020-04-01T12:48:44 < mawk> that allows to tell whether it's faked or not
2020-04-01T12:48:54 < dongs> https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2020-03-23/china-s-mobile-carriers-lose-15-million-users-as-virus-bites
2020-04-01T12:48:55 < mawk> could try to apply this to published corona stats
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2020-04-01T12:54:42 < jly> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BLn1vGXtvkM
2020-04-01T12:58:56 < Steffanx> Werent you using Microsoft Teams mawk?
2020-04-01T13:00:54 < mawk> yes Steffanx why ?
2020-04-01T13:01:02 < Steffanx> Are you happy with it?
2020-04-01T13:01:03 < Steffanx> or ok
2020-04-01T13:01:06 < Steffanx> not happy
2020-04-01T13:01:08 < Steffanx> because microsoft
2020-04-01T13:01:10 < mawk> It's alright
2020-04-01T13:01:14 < mawk> but it makes my cpu go 200%
2020-04-01T13:01:17 < mawk> it makes airplane noises
2020-04-01T13:01:29 < Steffanx> You also use the document share/editing?
2020-04-01T13:01:30 < mawk> and it's not even the video render process which does it, it's the shitty electron interface
2020-04-01T13:01:36 < mawk> not really, just video
2020-04-01T13:01:40 < mawk> and notes taking for meetings
2020-04-01T13:01:47 < mawk> we tried whiteboard but a bit buggy
2020-04-01T13:01:50 < Steffanx> no application sharing?
2020-04-01T13:02:03 < Steffanx>  / hostile take over
2020-04-01T13:03:13 < mawk> lol
2020-04-01T13:03:20 < mawk> we did screen sharing as well
2020-04-01T13:03:23 < mawk> and powerpoint sharing
2020-04-01T13:03:26 < mawk> the powerpoint thing is cool
2020-04-01T13:05:46 < Steffanx> Im kinda surprised how well it works. They even copied googles document editing with more than 1 person at the same time.
2020-04-01T13:05:51 < Steffanx> even works inside word itself.
2020-04-01T13:09:01 < karlp> teams video meetings works horribly on linux.
2020-04-01T13:09:14 < karlp> google's current meetings product and zoom both work flawlessly
2020-04-01T13:11:44 < Steffanx> Yeah, we probably only went for teams because its easy with the office 365 stuff we already have
2020-04-01T13:14:47 < karlp> yeah, I got teams pushed on us because we had office 365.
2020-04-01T13:15:06 < karlp> so, you get office 365 because people are used to outlook, and they want word/excel.
2020-04-01T13:15:19 < karlp> and you end up with teams, sharepoint and onenote, all of which are pretty shit
2020-04-01T13:15:45 < karlp> I've been trying to "do everything the way they intend" and it's all just half assed.
2020-04-01T13:15:57 < karlp> like, you can imagine it checks boxes on feature lists, but it's all horribly put together
2020-04-01T13:16:31 < Steffanx> the lunix users at work hardly complain about teams
2020-04-01T13:16:39 < Steffanx> as in no complaints, yet.
2020-04-01T13:19:14 < mawk> they don't have airplane computers ?
2020-04-01T13:19:32 < mawk> I even tried the insider build
2020-04-01T13:19:34 < mawk> but still the same
2020-04-01T13:19:41 < mawk> but otherwise I don't complain
2020-04-01T13:21:15 < karlp> do they use it though? :)
2020-04-01T13:21:49 < karlp> I can listen to meetings, and sometimes talk, and I'll sometimes get other peoples video, sometimes mine will work, and I'll never see presentations.
2020-04-01T13:22:03 < mawk> that's odd
2020-04-01T13:22:06 < mawk> everything works
2020-04-01T13:22:14 < mawk> but again this software doesn't look deterministic
2020-04-01T13:23:56 < mawk> maybe they have worst compression/buffering than the other software you use, and your connection is not good enough
2020-04-01T13:24:05 < karlp> no.
2020-04-01T13:24:11 < karlp> don't be such an apologist.
2020-04-01T13:24:29 < karlp> it works on my phone on shitty wifi,
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2020-04-01T13:24:52 < karlp> even if that were the case, it's still a failing of teams...
2020-04-01T13:25:19 < mawk> lol
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2020-04-01T13:27:45 < mawk> wow they just used the skype core or something ?
2020-04-01T13:27:48 < mawk> I thought it was just a rebranding
2020-04-01T13:27:51 < mawk> but they reused source code
2020-04-01T13:27:59 < mawk> the application is internally namd "skype" in some stuff
2020-04-01T13:28:44 < Steffanx> I recall i read a while ago skype for business merged into teams
2020-04-01T13:28:45 < Steffanx> or something
2020-04-01T13:30:53 < mawk> I'd like PIP mode on linux though
2020-04-01T13:31:03 < mawk> picture in picture for peasants
2020-04-01T13:31:39 < karlp> yeah, it's skypðe for business
2020-04-01T13:31:50 < karlp> skype worked well on linux, skype for business never did.
2020-04-01T13:31:56 < karlp> I always had ot use my phone for that.
2020-04-01T13:32:09 < jadew> dongs, that's the number for Italy
2020-04-01T13:32:14 < jadew> Spain is getting there tho
2020-04-01T13:33:21 < jadew> they had 900 two days ago
2020-04-01T13:38:19 < jadew> you know, because of this virus, now all packages take 3 weeks+ before you can use them
2020-04-01T13:38:40 < jadew> China has leveled the playing field
2020-04-01T13:39:06 < dongs> lol
2020-04-01T13:39:24 < dongs> you cant even ship to italy or spane from japan now
2020-04-01T13:39:27 < dongs> they banned packages outgoing
2020-04-01T13:40:17 < jadew> Japan banned outgoing packages?
2020-04-01T13:40:27 < dongs> ya
2020-04-01T13:40:34 < jadew> that's a weird measure
2020-04-01T13:40:50 < dongs> https://www.post.japanpost.jp/int/information/2020/0401_02_01_en.pdf
2020-04-01T13:41:28 < jadew> ah, seems the recipients are not accepting them, so they don't bother sending there anymore
2020-04-01T13:41:37 < dongs> well that and theres no flights
2020-04-01T13:41:39 < dongs> but yeah
2020-04-01T13:41:40 < dongs> basically
2020-04-01T13:41:46 < dongs> to guarantee quality of service heh
2020-04-01T13:41:48 < jadew> but Spain and Italy have nothing to fear...
2020-04-01T13:42:06 < jadew> they can't get more infected than they already are
2020-04-01T13:42:51 < mawk> why not
2020-04-01T13:43:09 < jadew> you can't fill a bottle that is already full
2020-04-01T13:43:29 < jadew> I see Romania is on that list too, which is strange
2020-04-01T13:43:50 < jadew> I'm receiving shit from China constantly
2020-04-01T13:44:04 < jadew> which reminds me, I have to pick something up from the postal office
2020-04-01T13:44:43 < PaulFertser> I have to pick something from the postal office to but it's probably illegal to go out for that purpose.
2020-04-01T13:45:02 < PaulFertser> The tea from GB arrived but I can't get it :(
2020-04-01T13:45:04 < jadew> yeah, it's probably illegal here too, but I'll risk it
2020-04-01T13:45:18 < jadew> there's a market next to it, so I'll say I'm going to buy food
2020-04-01T13:45:50 < jadew> you buy tea from GB?
2020-04-01T13:45:58 < jadew> you don't have weeds in Russia?
2020-04-01T13:46:06 < PaulFertser> Why is postal office open if it's illegal to visit it?
2020-04-01T13:46:15 < Steffanx> You need your tea right?
2020-04-01T13:46:25 < jadew> PaulFertser, could be legal for businesses
2020-04-01T13:46:36 < PaulFertser> Yes, BrainDamage recommended me one nice UK seller with good Taiwaneese teas.
2020-04-01T13:46:45 < Steffanx> Here the lock down is not that strict. You can still go out fine.
2020-04-01T13:46:48 < PaulFertser> Nothing like that is growing in russia for obvious reasons.
2020-04-01T13:46:59 < jadew> I like tea too, what did you get?
2020-04-01T13:50:04 < specing> PaulFertser: the post-people no longer deliver?
2020-04-01T13:50:10 < PaulFertser> jadew: https://www.adagiotea.co.uk/pu_erh/pu_erh_poe.html and Formosa https://www.adagiotea.co.uk/oolong/index.html
2020-04-01T13:50:25 < PaulFertser> specing: idk, never tried to order delivery from them
2020-04-01T13:50:48 < Steffanx> "you can steep it for as little as 30 seconds or 30 minutes" > 30 MINUTES ?!
2020-04-01T13:54:01 < BrainDamage> PaulFertser: do the post offices offer you financial services?
2020-04-01T13:54:03 < jadew> PaulFertser, thanks
2020-04-01T13:54:28 < BrainDamage> PaulFertser: if so, open an account, transfer some money and then go there to retire it in cash
2020-04-01T13:54:38 < BrainDamage> and get the package at the same time
2020-04-01T13:55:08 < PaulFertser> BrainDamage: yes, they started doing the "bank" thing a year or two ago, very silly. Hm, so I can go to "bank" then, heh, interesting idea :)
2020-04-01T13:55:47 < jadew> or just break the law - adds a bit of excitement to the quarantine life
2020-04-01T13:56:05 < mawk> breaking the confinment in russia looks severe
2020-04-01T13:56:10 < mawk> in france just cough on the police officer, you'll get away
2020-04-01T13:56:28 < mawk> and if you're not financially sound you don't pay the fee anyway
2020-04-01T13:56:35 < mawk> only at the 3rd recidive you go to jail
2020-04-01T13:56:40 < mawk> it's 250€, then 1500€, then jail
2020-04-01T13:57:11 < mawk> they don't want to cause riots in suburbs to add up on top of corona, so they don't enforce the confinment there anyway
2020-04-01T13:57:20 < Steffanx> mawk in dutchland you will get arrested and a few people ended up with jail time already.
2020-04-01T13:57:24 < jadew> I wonder, how do those nigerians selling shit on the sidewalk make money these days?
2020-04-01T13:57:39 < Steffanx> so dont cough at the police and say you have corona.
2020-04-01T13:57:44 < mawk> for crowding up in public space Steffanx  ?
2020-04-01T13:57:50 < mawk> because there's no lockdown here
2020-04-01T13:57:55 < mawk> or maybe I missed a news
2020-04-01T13:58:01 < jadew> mawk, do you have aid packages?
2020-04-01T13:58:05 < jadew> like free money?
2020-04-01T13:58:08 < Steffanx> No, it was mainly coughing at the police.
2020-04-01T13:58:10 < Steffanx> intentionally.
2020-04-01T13:58:22 < mawk> ah I see
2020-04-01T13:58:30 < mawk> me jadew ?
2020-04-01T13:58:39 < jadew> the french
2020-04-01T13:58:41 < mawk> ah
2020-04-01T13:58:43 < mawk> yes of course
2020-04-01T13:58:49 < mawk> many of the suburbians have the RSA
2020-04-01T13:58:58 < mawk> the minimal revenue
2020-04-01T13:59:10 < mawk> around 550€/month free of tax
2020-04-01T13:59:26 < mawk> + aid for paying the rent, if it's an official flat (must be more than 12m² and so on)
2020-04-01T13:59:40 < mawk> + aid for your kids if you have kids, + extra aid if you're alone with kids
2020-04-01T13:59:42 < mawk> and so on
2020-04-01T14:00:26 < Steffanx> crowding up in public space will get you a fine here too mawk. For not keeping the 1.5 meter distance
2020-04-01T14:00:31 < Steffanx> i recall it was 400 euro bucks.
2020-04-01T14:00:42 < mawk> ic
2020-04-01T14:00:44 < Steffanx> or up to 400 euro bucks.
2020-04-01T14:00:50 < mawk> I went to the pharmacy yesterday
2020-04-01T14:00:53 < mawk> people were very disciplined
2020-04-01T14:00:54 < jadew> in here anything more than 3 people is a crowd and it's also against the law
2020-04-01T14:00:57 < mawk> waiting in line and so on
2020-04-01T14:01:02 < mawk> organizing on the sidewalk to wait properly
2020-04-01T14:01:10 < Steffanx> Yes, there is the >= 3 people thing too
2020-04-01T14:01:10 < mawk> but the pharmacist didn't want to give me my meds
2020-04-01T14:01:15 < mawk> they say 5
2020-04-01T14:01:18 < mawk> in the pharmacy and so on
2020-04-01T14:01:26 < mawk> depends on area probably
2020-04-01T14:01:30 < mawk> in the coffee shop it's 1
2020-04-01T14:01:31 < Steffanx> lol, out of meds again?
2020-04-01T14:01:36 < mawk> no, I insisted
2020-04-01T14:01:41 < mawk> she said "but you have no recept"
2020-04-01T14:01:50 < mawk> "yes I have, just print out the one from last time and READ"
2020-04-01T14:01:59 < mawk> "oh yes it says 'recurring prescription'"
2020-04-01T14:02:05 < mawk> I got her to print at after 3 tries and much insisting
2020-04-01T14:02:11 < mawk> while the line was building up behind me
2020-04-01T14:02:14 < Steffanx> hah
2020-04-01T14:14:08 < PaulFertser> Have you folks played with https://www.datacat.cc/covid/ already?
2020-04-01T14:23:09 -!- onio [~onio@cpc122394-bmly11-2-0-cust161.2-3.cable.virginm.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving]
2020-04-01T14:27:19 < jly> hi sir
2020-04-01T14:27:48 < Steffanx> gooday commander.
2020-04-01T14:28:22 < karlp> heh, st just apologised for having difficulties shipping me a dev board I won.
2020-04-01T14:28:30 < Steffanx> No, i'm done with the COVID-0x13 PaulFertser.
2020-04-01T14:28:45 < specing> karlp: you won a devboard??!?! how??!?!
2020-04-01T14:29:11 < Steffanx> You had to show them your latest tarduino project and tell them how STM32 would make it better
2020-04-01T14:29:18 < Steffanx> even dongs had an entry for it.
2020-04-01T14:30:01 < jly> good to see you Steffanx 
2020-04-01T14:32:42 < Steffanx> Safety first sir. 
2020-04-01T14:33:37 < jly> stm32 is safu
2020-04-01T14:33:59 < Steffanx> Engineering.
2020-04-01T14:34:10 < jly> the correct senpai doesn't use arduino
2020-04-01T14:35:57 < Steffanx> Indeed!
2020-04-01T14:36:42 < PaulFertser> That website allows to see and compare exponent coefficient for different countries.
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2020-04-01T14:41:56 < Steffanx> Moving forward.
2020-04-01T14:43:54 < karlp> specing: I can't remember anymore, I think it was part of embedded world "remote conference"
2020-04-01T14:44:03 < karlp> it was just "click link, put in email and address"
2020-04-01T14:48:01 < specing> jsut that?
2020-04-01T14:48:09 < specing> :( which devkit did they send?
2020-04-01T14:48:34 < BrainDamage> I wonder who's in the mood for april's fools
2020-04-01T14:48:44 < BrainDamage> given the world state
2020-04-01T14:48:44 < jly> fuck eevblog
2020-04-01T14:49:29 < karlp> specing: I think it was "pick a nucleo from this list" and I just picked one I didn't have, I honestly don't remember .)
2020-04-01T14:49:44 < specing> :S
2020-04-01T14:49:54 < jly> https://usercontent.irccloud-cdn.com/file/4NCTZdPP/newEEVblog.png
2020-04-01T14:50:10 < karlp> you're not subscribed to a whole pile of industrry mailing lists? they mail out shit like that all the time
2020-04-01T14:51:59 < specing> nope
2020-04-01T14:52:01 < specing> :(
2020-04-01T15:00:51 < karlp> whoe else makes things like lan951x? usb hub with an ethernet port built in?
2020-04-01T15:01:20 < karlp> any crazy china stuff? 
2020-04-01T15:04:10 < jly> https://usercontent.irccloud-cdn.com/file/nIzNvTSJ/image.png
2020-04-01T15:09:49 < Steffanx> im in the mood for a ook april's fool BrainDamage
2020-04-01T15:10:12 < Steffanx> not one of those unfunny jokes too obvious jokes.
2020-04-01T15:11:35 < Steffanx> *unfunny too obvious jokes
2020-04-01T15:13:51 -!- Jak_o_Shadows [~Jak@unaffiliated/jak-o-shadows/x-0479135] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds]
2020-04-01T15:14:01 < jly> https://usercontent.irccloud-cdn.com/file/rWl948E1/brd.png
2020-04-01T15:14:08 < jly> my assistant 
2020-04-01T15:14:35 < jly> 5 days uptime
2020-04-01T15:20:05 < karlp> specing: speaking of corp mailouts, if you want to take advantage of the situation, RECOM is offering free samples on all medical grade power supplies for the next four weeks
2020-04-01T15:20:23 < karlp> "We understand that speed is essential in the current crisis. In order to limit bureaucracy and help to speed up our customers designs we offer, as of today for the next 4 weeks, free of charge samples for any medical grade equipment design you are working on. A simple online request form is the only mandatory step necessary to receive what you need to help others."
2020-04-01T15:25:12 < specing> oh man, I'd feel bad about it getting to sit in a drawer
2020-04-01T15:25:34 < specing> I'm one of those rare people left with some conscience
2020-04-01T15:35:55 < mawk> something's up with french numbers on your site PaulFertser 
2020-04-01T15:36:16 < mawk> few new cases lately
2020-04-01T15:36:21 < mawk> are they lying ?¿
2020-04-01T15:36:36 < jly> hi
2020-04-01T15:36:42 < PaulFertser> mawk: not sure, the numbers should be from JHU
2020-04-01T15:38:05 < specing> the french are still in denial that the maginot line will save them from the virus
2020-04-01T15:38:35 < jly> it was on the news this mroring
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2020-04-01T15:42:22 < Steffanx> We need a video of your assistent jly
2020-04-01T15:43:42 < jly> that can be arranged
2020-04-01T15:44:03 < jly> if i can awake tomorrow at the usual hour of fuck-off
2020-04-01T15:44:14 < jly> 2-5pm 
2020-04-01T15:44:17 < jly> am sorry
2020-04-01T15:45:04 < jly> you should tell my neurologist to visit me
2020-04-01T15:45:45 < Steffanx> Have his number for me?
2020-04-01T15:45:48 < jly> tell him it's more likely coronavirus spreads over the electric telephone
2020-04-01T15:46:12 < jly> do you require an interpreter
2020-04-01T15:46:13 -!- Laurenceb [~laurence@223.141.208.46.dyn.plus.net] has joined ##stm32
2020-04-01T15:47:25 < jly> https://thermh.org.au/telehealth
2020-04-01T15:47:39 < jly> just tell them you're a pumper from IRC
2020-04-01T15:48:35 < Steffanx> "with Telehealth, you don’t have to travel to Melbourne for your appointments". awesome
2020-04-01T15:48:43 < jly> lol
2020-04-01T15:50:00 -!- Shavik_ is now known as Shavik
2020-04-01T15:50:23 < jly> if they're present to tell me there is a cure for MS
2020-04-01T15:51:40 < Steffanx> I can only give you the COVID-0x13 Mega Sickness, no cure yet.
2020-04-01T15:51:51 < Steffanx> except for your own body getting rid of it.
2020-04-01T15:51:56 < jly> yeah hasn't got me yet
2020-04-01T15:52:29 < jly> apparently it's not a big deal most of my B lymphocytes are dead
2020-04-01T15:53:40 < Steffanx> Did you play with the chemicals too much?
2020-04-01T15:54:00 < jly> nah my immune system got bored and decided to try and eat me up
2020-04-01T15:54:16 -!- fenugrec [~fenugrec@97.107.220.18] has joined ##stm32
2020-04-01T15:54:22 < jly> so i took the ocrelizumab
2020-04-01T16:01:12 < mawk> did you see all the vids of chinese wiping their feet with masks they're going to send to occidentals ?
2020-04-01T16:01:16 -!- kakimir [575d1b57@87-93-27-87.bb.dnainternet.fi] has joined ##stm32
2020-04-01T16:01:30  * mawk is not going to wear a mask
2020-04-01T16:01:35 < jly> who wears the useless things
2020-04-01T16:01:46 < jly> just wash your hands with HF
2020-04-01T16:02:13 < jly> Hydrofluoric acid
2020-04-01T16:02:21 < jly> works for me bro
2020-04-01T16:02:45 < mawk> I'll try
2020-04-01T16:02:53 < mawk> I was using IPA for now but you're right, the stronger the better
2020-04-01T16:02:55 < mawk> let's kill all the germs
2020-04-01T16:03:05 < mawk> can I drink it too
2020-04-01T16:03:30 < jly> i drink it by the gallon
2020-04-01T16:16:25 < Steffanx> mawk: Did you read about the dutch and their 1.3 million masks that were faulty/not as good as they are supposed to be?
2020-04-01T16:17:37 < Steffanx> And then france orders 1 billion masks.. i'll laugh if they turn out to be trash as well.
2020-04-01T16:22:36 < mawk> well in france we had a story like this too Steffanx 
2020-04-01T16:22:40 < mawk> rotten masks
2020-04-01T16:22:42 < mawk> with mold inside
2020-04-01T16:22:47 < Steffanx> lol
2020-04-01T16:31:37 < karlp> at least you're not in turkmenistan or belarus
2020-04-01T16:34:36 -!- con3 [~con3@165.255.54.59] has joined ##stm32
2020-04-01T16:36:15 < Sadale> Guess what? :P
2020-04-01T16:37:29 < Sadale> International Asynchronous Rock Paper Scissors Tournament 2020 is today. Miss it and you'd have to wait for next year. Certificate will be issued to all participants. Join now! https://www.ikatokai.com/iarpst2020/
2020-04-01T16:38:57 -!- upgrdman [~upgrdman@blender/artist/upgrdman] has quit [Quit: Leaving]
2020-04-01T16:42:14 < Steffanx> lol Sadale is the only one to ever use the hastag
2020-04-01T16:42:17 < Steffanx> hash tag
2020-04-01T16:42:22 < Sadale> yes, unfortunately. :(
2020-04-01T16:42:28 < Sadale> Last year the organizer also used the hashtag.
2020-04-01T16:42:51 < Sadale> B-but we've got 14 supporting organization this year! :P
2020-04-01T16:44:36 < karlp> qyx: if you thought freecad was slow, try importing a dwg into librecad ;)
2020-04-01T16:48:42 -!- emeb [~ericb@ip68-2-65-72.ph.ph.cox.net] has joined ##stm32
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2020-04-01T17:31:30 < BrainDamage> mawk: that's why I mentioned that a flourishing economy is better, for one, the required stockpiles consierably shrink since they are diffused already in the population
2020-04-01T17:35:24 -!- con3 [~con3@165.255.54.59] has joined ##stm32
2020-04-01T17:36:29 < karlp> but that does require the population to think those are products worth having
2020-04-01T17:36:45 < karlp> and most of the west doesnt' really have a culture of owning masks, or wearing masks when they go to work a littl ebit sick
2020-04-01T17:36:58 < karlp> orr, as I learnt from mawk today, most of the occidentals don't...
2020-04-01T17:38:04 < mawk> well the government explicitely tells people to not wear masks
2020-04-01T17:38:08 < mawk> and they are not available for sale anyway
2020-04-01T17:38:09 -!- con3 [~con3@165.255.54.59] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
2020-04-01T17:38:12 < mawk> they passed a decree
2020-04-01T17:38:45 < mawk> they say a mask is more dangerous than no mask for <reason they made up for covering the fact they stopped the stocking of 1billion masks some time ago>
2020-04-01T17:43:32 < specing> mawk: they said the same to us 2 weeks ago
2020-04-01T17:43:43 < specing> mawk: now masks are mandatory to go to store with
2020-04-01T17:43:53 < specing> it's law
2020-04-01T17:44:11 < mawk> lol
2020-04-01T17:44:23 < mawk> where do you get your masks from then ?
2020-04-01T17:44:36 < emeb> pull a sock over your head
2020-04-01T17:44:37 < specing> you don't get food
2020-04-01T17:44:41 < specing> simpl'
2020-04-01T17:45:22 < specing> mawk: there are no masks, obviously
2020-04-01T17:46:03 < emeb> plenty of info online for making DIY masks that are sufficient for non medical folk.
2020-04-01T17:46:40 < specing> emeb: what about those without internet?
2020-04-01T17:47:09 < emeb> Also - PCBWay is now including freebie masks in orders for PCBs - now there's marketing!
2020-04-01T17:47:18 < specing> lol
2020-04-01T17:47:41 < specing> emeb: plot twist.... they are shipping used masks
2020-04-01T17:47:44 < englishman> i dont think anything could disgust me more
2020-04-01T17:47:55 < englishman> than a free facemask included with a chinese pcb order
2020-04-01T17:47:58 < emeb> they're packaged in sealed containers.
2020-04-01T17:48:16 < englishman> so your hantavirus arrives nice and fresh
2020-04-01T17:48:26 < emeb> best kind
2020-04-01T17:49:55 < emeb> https://www.pcbway.com/project/gifts_detail/PCBWay_Mask.html
2020-04-01T17:50:01 < t4nk_freenode> so; I hate to break up the insatiable lust for useless fear-mongering, but... How on earth could it be that if I have my stm32f4 board setup as a cdc device, it stops working as soon as I start up stm32cubeide? Had me puzzled for a while, but the cdc device works fine when stm32cudeide is not running; as soon as I start the program... my cdc device will stop responding, usually with 'failed to set rts/dtr'
2020-04-01T17:50:38 -!- Mangy_Dog [Mangy_Dog@unaffiliated/mangy-dog/x-3069595] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
2020-04-01T17:50:57 < emeb> is cubeide starting up gdb on it and halting?
2020-04-01T17:51:04 < t4nk_freenode> does stm32cubeide mess with the usb settings somehow? 
2020-04-01T17:51:24 < englishman> do you have a debugger connected
2020-04-01T17:51:30 < t4nk_freenode> no! I don't do anything with stm32CI.. I just start it up
2020-04-01T17:52:04 < t4nk_freenode> no debugger connected, just the usb cable, and then I use dfa-utils to upload my code
2020-04-01T17:52:10 < emeb> what VID/PID does your device have? If it's using the ST VID/PID then CubeIDE may be probing it.
2020-04-01T17:52:29 < t4nk_freenode> I never changed the pid/vid
2020-04-01T17:52:34 < englishman> lunix?
2020-04-01T17:52:37 < t4nk_freenode> but I think you may be right
2020-04-01T17:52:43 < emeb> so you are using the ST VID/PID
2020-04-01T17:52:47 < t4nk_freenode> yes, linux
2020-04-01T17:53:18 < t4nk_freenode> 0483:5740 STMicroelectronics Virtual COM Port
2020-04-01T17:53:24 < emeb> yep
2020-04-01T17:53:28 < t4nk_freenode> mmmmmmm
2020-04-01T17:53:33 < emeb> maybe change that to something else.
2020-04-01T17:53:48 < t4nk_freenode> I'll see what I can do about that..
2020-04-01T17:55:36 < BrainDamage> karlp: yes, it requires a culture of wearing them
2020-04-01T17:58:07 < t4nk_freenode> can anyone name the file that has the pid/vid so that I won't need to regenerate code?
2020-04-01T17:59:58 < karlp> just grep for it.
2020-04-01T18:00:41 < emeb> probably in the descriptors file
2020-04-01T18:00:58 -!- renn0xtk9 [~max@2a02:810d:1540:61b8:f95a:dee3:44d5:659c] has quit [Quit: Konversation terminated!]
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2020-04-01T18:13:08 < invzim> is freertos via cubemx worth a damn?
2020-04-01T18:15:17 -!- jly [uid355225@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-ypzvmkelbfcrgont] has quit [Quit: Connection closed for inactivity]
2020-04-01T18:16:03 < Steffanx> Time for Cracki to post the link he posts once in a while 
2020-04-01T18:16:54 < Steffanx> regarding newlib it is: http://www.nadler.com/embedded/newlibAndFreeRTOS.html
2020-04-01T18:16:59 < t4nk_freenode> it's very strange..  usb 5-3: New USB device found, idVendor=08ae, idProduct=0d05, bcdDevice= 2.00 | I just changed to some random pid/vid, and it seems to 'marginally work better'.. yet I still encounter pauses in throughput and also failed to set rts/dtr errors
2020-04-01T18:17:27 < t4nk_freenode> if I shut down smt32CI.. it starts working normally again
2020-04-01T18:24:51 < t4nk_freenode> heh! so the pid/vid seemed to have little impact.. but then I messed up the manufacturer and product id.. and that seems to have done the trick!
2020-04-01T18:27:36 < t4nk_freenode> amazing.. yesterday I was 'shitting bricks' because I thought I had already blown up the board while barely out of its wrapper ;)
2020-04-01T18:27:49 < t4nk_freenode> thnx for the hints guys :)
2020-04-01T18:29:10 < emeb> :)
2020-04-01T18:29:12 < zyp> on masks: they are designed to keep infections in, not out
2020-04-01T18:29:20 < emeb> always remember - USB is horrible.
2020-04-01T18:30:09 < t4nk_freenode> I come from PIC's... where I have my own usb framework written in asm .. I love usb :)
2020-04-01T18:30:17 < zyp> wearing a mask to avoid getting infected is not very effective, wearing a mask to avoid infecting others if you're unknowingly already infected is a lot more sane
2020-04-01T18:31:13 < zyp> and since it's getting increasingly likely that you're unknowingly infected, it's also getting increasingly sensible for everybody to wear a mask
2020-04-01T18:31:30 < t4nk_freenode> yeah, we're all gonna die!
2020-04-01T18:31:31 < t4nk_freenode> ;)
2020-04-01T18:31:38 < t4nk_freenode> war, DANGER! disease!!
2020-04-01T18:31:54 < t4nk_freenode> please help us from this horror and terrorism
2020-04-01T18:31:55 < srk> t4nk_freenode: you can also work without cubemx and vendor provided tools which might be more pleasant depending on personal preferences
2020-04-01T18:32:21 < zyp> t4nk_freenode, no, but some people are, and reducing the infecton rate is also gonna reduce the total number of deaths
2020-04-01T18:32:46 < zyp> emeb, where's the USB hate coming from?
2020-04-01T18:33:59 < emeb> zyp: I'm fine w/ USB. But there's a general cloud of dissatisfaction w/ it from so many in the tech community and I'm parroting that. :)
2020-04-01T18:34:32 < emeb> folks who haven't realized that there's no such thing as perfect.
2020-04-01T18:35:07 < t4nk_freenode> yeh, srk, tbh.. I love pic's, and I love pic18f, but it's rather cumbersome in the end; I write asm for it. But now I got some stm32 boards, due to some not to be named person on this channel, .. and I'm writing in c.. taking things easy for a change, and it's rather kewl I must say
2020-04-01T18:36:48  * karlp thinks it's mostly people who didn't actualyl deal with serial/parallel ports, and just assumed that they were simpler, better times.
2020-04-01T18:36:48 < zyp> emeb, IME there's no shortage of USB-based stuff that's utter shit, but just because people are making shit with USB, it doesn't mean that USB is shit
2020-04-01T18:37:15 < karlp> t4nk_freenode: welcome to the future :)
2020-04-01T18:37:18 < zyp> karlp, haha, also true
2020-04-01T18:37:19 < t4nk_freenode> lol
2020-04-01T18:38:04 < t4nk_freenode> but still somewhere.. I resent the fact that someone who knows nothing at all ... is able to produce a usb device with a few clicks
2020-04-01T18:38:13 < emeb> zyp: agree. However I follow a few smart but apparently inexperienced folks who complain loudly about much of current tech. C/C++ and USB get a lot of hate from them.
2020-04-01T18:38:25 -!- bitmask [~bitmask@c-73-215-237-27.hsd1.nj.comcast.net] has joined ##stm32
2020-04-01T18:38:27 < karlp> emeb: you mean whitequark and friends? ;)
2020-04-01T18:38:30 < t4nk_freenode> there's a lot of stuff involved in this, and it's not apparent from a few mouse clicks
2020-04-01T18:39:07 < emeb> karlp: heh - you know what I mean then. 
2020-04-01T18:39:36 < t4nk_freenode> nehow, I'm off for a bit.. thanks again :))
2020-04-01T18:39:53 -!- Mangy_Dog [Mangy_Dog@unaffiliated/mangy-dog/x-3069595] has joined ##stm32
2020-04-01T18:40:21 < emeb> ppl who haven't quite internalized the adage "The perfect is the enemy of the good"
2020-04-01T18:42:16 < zyp> there's always room for improvement and what really matters is good enough
2020-04-01T18:43:26 < emeb> yes, and good is enough is all you're ever going to get from a standards committee.
2020-04-01T18:52:18 < BrainDamage> zyp: https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2662657/ https://jamanetwork.com/journals/jama/article-abstract/2749214 https://jamanetwork.com/journals/jama/fullarticle/184819
2020-04-01T18:53:06 < zyp> tl;dr
2020-04-01T18:53:07 < BrainDamage> tl;dr, while not foolproof, wearing asurgical mask _significantly_ cuts down the risk of acquiring airborne flu virus
2020-04-01T18:53:30 < BrainDamage> and with effectivness comparable to a full facial protection mask
2020-04-01T18:54:34 < BrainDamage> 17% of workers contracted the flu in the control group vs 5% with surgical mask and 4% with ffp2
2020-04-01T18:54:36 < zyp> I thought this virus weren't airborne though
2020-04-01T18:55:07 < BrainDamage> well, airborne during coughs, sneezes, etc
2020-04-01T18:55:28 < zyp> that only supports my point
2020-04-01T18:55:31 < zyp> it keeps it in, not out
2020-04-01T18:56:01 < BrainDamage> it'd still offer protection from others' open cough
2020-04-01T18:56:07 < BrainDamage> at least some
2020-04-01T18:56:29 < zyp> sure
2020-04-01T18:56:54 < zyp> and some is better than none, also true
2020-04-01T18:57:01 < BrainDamage> and it doesn't have to be perfect, any cut in the tramission rate, at least society wise, makes a significant impact on the health care load
2020-04-01T18:57:11 < zyp> I don't disagree
2020-04-01T18:57:12 < BrainDamage> aslo because that coefficient goes into an exponential
2020-04-01T18:57:59 < zyp> I'm just saying, at this point, wearing a mask to avoid infecting others is a stronger argument than wearing a mask to keep yourself from getting infected
2020-04-01T18:58:05 < mawk> make the coefficient negative
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2020-04-01T18:58:47 < BrainDamage> a sneeze that heals others
2020-04-01T18:59:03 < Steffanx> sounds like a deal.
2020-04-01T18:59:06 < mawk> yeah
2020-04-01T18:59:18 < Steffanx> Bless you.
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2020-04-01T19:13:46 < Laurenceb> cough on the thots
2020-04-01T19:15:14 < kakimir> approved
2020-04-01T19:15:33 < kakimir> I need biosuit
2020-04-01T19:15:51 < kakimir> somethink like dude in halo
2020-04-01T19:15:57 < kakimir> (game series)
2020-04-01T19:18:43 < kakimir> high tech millionare gimmick suit
2020-04-01T19:20:41 < englishman> has anyone seen my box of heatshrink
2020-04-01T19:20:47 < englishman> I swear it was here a week ago
2020-04-01T19:23:47 < BrainDamage> yeah, it shrunk
2020-04-01T19:25:42 < zyp> emeb, oh, by the way, I came home to two of those colorlight boards waiting in the mail yesterday
2020-04-01T19:26:43 < kakimir> englishman: all used
2020-04-01T19:26:53 < jpa-> oh zyp got home
2020-04-01T19:26:53 < kakimir> probs it's where you last time used them
2020-04-01T19:27:02 < zyp> just need to take care of everything else that needs to be done after being away for three weeks, and then I'm gonna sit down and take it for a spin
2020-04-01T19:27:06 < zyp> jpa-, yeah
2020-04-01T19:28:42 < BrainDamage> like feeding the basement slave?
2020-04-01T19:29:00 < zyp> exactly
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2020-04-01T19:29:50 < BrainDamage> btw, did you have any trouble with health checks and bureaucracy?
2020-04-01T19:30:25 < emeb> zyp: ah cool - looking forward to what you come up with on those.
2020-04-01T19:30:33 < zyp> BrainDamage, no
2020-04-01T19:31:06 < jpa-> zyp: are you self-quarantining now for 2 weeks?
2020-04-01T19:31:09 < zyp> yes
2020-04-01T19:33:08 < zyp> BrainDamage, Norway doesn't allow entry for non-resident foreigners, so my wife had to show her residency card a couple of times when boarding the flights, that was probably the only check out of the ordinary
2020-04-01T19:33:38 < PaulFertser> How will they be checking you're not breaching the isolation rules?
2020-04-01T19:33:43 < zyp> and then there were a guy at the airport in Oslo asking everybody if they had any symptoms
2020-04-01T19:33:53 < jpa-> oh you had wife and baby with you in japan?
2020-04-01T19:34:07 < zyp> well, yeah, that was kind of the point with the trip
2020-04-01T19:34:25 < zyp> visiting wife's relatives
2020-04-01T19:34:33 < zyp> and showing off the baby
2020-04-01T19:34:34 < jpa-> i almost thought the point was zyp taking a vacation away from baby duties! ;)
2020-04-01T19:34:40 < zyp> haha
2020-04-01T19:34:47 < jpa-> oh your wife is from japan?
2020-04-01T19:34:49 < zyp> yes
2020-04-01T19:34:54 < jpa-> i didn't know that :)
2020-04-01T19:34:58 < jpa-> makes more sense now
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2020-04-01T19:36:41 < t4nk_freenode> lol, so you wore masks 24/7 anyhow ;)
2020-04-01T19:37:48 < t4nk_freenode> I'm thinking about buying a mask myself tbh :|
2020-04-01T19:37:54 < t4nk_freenode> peer pressure and such
2020-04-01T19:38:20 < t4nk_freenode> I think I wanna go for a carnival-sheep-mask though
2020-04-01T19:41:05 < t4nk_freenode> here I was thinking burka's were forbidden btw..
2020-04-01T19:41:18 < zyp> t4nk_freenode, nah, I didn't bother
2020-04-01T19:42:02 < t4nk_freenode> well, zyp, it was actually not really intended as a sneer at you.. but I thought that they really wear masks because of pollution
2020-04-01T19:42:19 < t4nk_freenode> at least, I've regularly seen pictures on tv
2020-04-01T19:42:25 < zyp> I think you're confusing japan with china
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2020-04-01T19:42:37 < t4nk_freenode> nono, not recently I mean
2020-04-01T19:42:46 < t4nk_freenode> throughout the years even
2020-04-01T19:44:02 < englishman> PaulFertser: what kind of tea do you like
2020-04-01T19:44:35 < t4nk_freenode> some lemon tea is always nice
2020-04-01T19:45:07 < englishman> my preferred teas are all local, imported teas just don't do it for me
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2020-04-01T19:46:41 < t4nk_freenode> I hardly drink it though, just once in a while when I'm on some health trip
2020-04-01T19:46:56 < t4nk_freenode> I'm a heavy fan of coffee
2020-04-01T19:48:00 < PaulFertser> englishman: pu ehr and oolong :)
2020-04-01T19:48:50 < englishman> ah
2020-04-01T20:00:52 < jadew> DHL is trying to charge me VAT on shipping too, when importing something
2020-04-01T20:01:17 < jadew> even tho I'll pay the shipping separately (directly to them, since the import was made on my account) and that payment already includes VAT
2020-04-01T20:02:06 < Steffanx> ok
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2020-04-01T20:12:52 < englishman> this tea is super good: hibiscus flower, orange peel, chicory root, lemongrass, lemon peel, gotu kola, cinnamon, rooibos, licorice, ginger
2020-04-01T20:13:18 < antto> bruh, is that a tea or a soup?
2020-04-01T20:13:23 < englishman> t
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2020-04-01T20:16:36 < Steffanx> haah
2020-04-01T20:18:18 < antto> i say it's a gourme soup
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2020-04-01T20:20:09 < PaulFertser> englishman: haha, where's tea in there?
2020-04-01T20:20:42  * antto tosses a frog leg in it
2020-04-01T20:20:45 < englishman> that's the tea
2020-04-01T20:20:49 < antto> now it's a soup for sure
2020-04-01T20:21:33 < antto> but why no potatos
2020-04-01T20:22:25 < nn7> all that meat and no potatoes
2020-04-01T20:22:29 < Steffanx> here one cannot call something tea when it has no tea in it.
2020-04-01T20:23:23 < Steffanx> not entiry true, because they still call it "kruidenthee" (herbal tea) although its not tea.
2020-04-01T20:23:57 -!- Dwayne__ is now known as Zilenc3
2020-04-01T20:24:08 < antto> reminds me of an old joke
2020-04-01T20:24:32 < Steffanx> its the fools they, so ... 
2020-04-01T20:24:35 < Steffanx> *day
2020-04-01T20:24:48 < Steffanx> im not even sure why i wrote "they" .
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2020-04-01T20:25:33 < antto> o hai therr kakimir
2020-04-01T20:26:00 < Zilenc3> Where can I find the definitions for osThreadDef? When I try to press F3 it says "Selected text cannot be mapped to a symbol name". I'm using the LwIP example.
2020-04-01T20:26:07 < kakimir> hello
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2020-04-01T20:26:37 < Steffanx> its some CMSIS-RTOS thing Zilenc3
2020-04-01T20:26:54 < antto> ctrl+f in ze folder?
2020-04-01T20:27:54 < Steffanx> so where is the joke antto
2020-04-01T20:28:12 < antto> well, i'd have to translate it.. ;P~
2020-04-01T20:28:16 < PaulFertser> englishman: oh, I also like "mate", but it's not a tea.
2020-04-01T20:28:59 < Steffanx> Try the native version antto
2020-04-01T20:29:26 < antto> two vampirez go in ze bar.. the first one orders a big mug of bloodz, the other one orders a glass of boiled water
2020-04-01T20:30:28 < englishman> PaulFertser: love mate
2020-04-01T20:31:13 < antto> the first one goes o_O "wtf? water?" the other one draws a ladies pad (used) from his coat's inner pocket and says "i'm ill, imma drink a tea"
2020-04-01T20:31:16 < PaulFertser> Steffanx: can one call a server DNS server if it can't even pass RRSIG records through?
2020-04-01T20:31:34 < PaulFertser> Steffanx: can one call Internet access some service that keeps your behind cgNAT?
2020-04-01T20:31:55 < Steffanx> PaulFertser: you think i know this?
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2020-04-01T20:32:21 < PaulFertser> Steffanx: I thought DNSSEC is mainstream these days so yes, kinda assumed that.
2020-04-01T20:32:43 < antto> <crowd_laughs_much.wav>
2020-04-01T20:33:29 < PaulFertser> I called my ISP today and they asked me if my "equipment was rebooted". I said "I can't understand the essence of your question" and got switched to the next line of support right away.
2020-04-01T20:33:50 < PaulFertser> Had to wait for more than an hour though listening to "music" for that line.
2020-04-01T20:34:26 < Cracki> antto, *sip*
2020-04-01T20:34:27 < antto> aww, i know that kind of music
2020-04-01T20:34:31 < mawk> Steffanx: https://www.iamexpat.nl/expat-info/dutch-expat-news/sale-alcohol-banned-duration-quarantine
2020-04-01T20:34:46 < antto> PaulFertser is it looped "badly" ?
2020-04-01T20:34:52 < Cracki> I don't think it's recommended though. some people use that as ghetto hormone replacement therapy
2020-04-01T20:36:33 < Steffanx> hah, good one mawk :)
2020-04-01T20:36:37 < PaulFertser> antto: not sure but what's annoying are the pauses which make me think someone's about to answer.
2020-04-01T20:36:55 < antto> is it like fades in and out?
2020-04-01T20:37:29 < PaulFertser> antto: nope, just a 1s pause every now and then :)
2020-04-01T20:37:43 < antto> so it's badly looped probably
2020-04-01T20:37:51 < Cracki> why are those telephone systems still unable to call you back so often
2020-04-01T20:38:13 < Cracki> sure, make people wait two minutes as a "proof of stake" or something, but drop them and call back
2020-04-01T20:38:22 < antto> i call teh ISP every month to tell em i wanna pay muh internetz via teh internetz
2020-04-01T20:38:28 < antto> so i listen to such musics too
2020-04-01T20:38:42 < Cracki> or give a menu to confirm a callback is wanted
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2020-04-01T20:39:05 < Cracki> send your enemies sacks of small coins
2020-04-01T20:40:41 < Steffanx> So did you get an answer in the end PaulFertser?
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2020-04-01T20:46:47 < PaulFertser> Steffanx: they rebooted something on their end and told me that something was indeed not right but in ten minutes it should become better. I started to explain my DNS issues more aggressively and insist that can not be fixed that way. And then they told me to send another (the previous report I made on 25th of March) e-mail to their admins.
2020-04-01T20:46:57 < PaulFertser> With traceroute to DNS servers :)
2020-04-01T20:48:41 < Steffanx> and then im still not entirely sure how to interpret your 2nd question
2020-04-01T20:49:19 < bitmask> my electroplating doesnt work anymore :(
2020-04-01T20:49:22 < bitmask> wtf happened
2020-04-01T20:49:29 < Zilenc3> Steffanx, Does STM32 make their own version of CMSIS-RTOS? Their function call doesn't follow the definition of what I see online. 
2020-04-01T20:50:12 -!- c10ud [~c10ud@emesene/dictator/c10ud] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds]
2020-04-01T20:50:15 < PaulFertser> Steffanx: many "ISPs" put you behind IPv4 NAT and do not provide IPv6 connectivity at all. Can it be called "providing Internet"?
2020-04-01T20:50:34 < Cracki> bitmask, Reverse The Polarity? any acid/base diffused out of solution?
2020-04-01T20:50:48 < Steffanx> PaulFertser: Internet access sure, not full internet access :P
2020-04-01T20:50:51 < Cracki> providing facebook and youtube
2020-04-01T20:51:08 < Steffanx> youre out of current bitmask.
2020-04-01T20:51:10 < PaulFertser> Steffanx: but you do not get a single Internet IP that way!
2020-04-01T20:52:05 < bitmask> I modified my solution but not sure thats it, I think its lack of conductivity of my graphite ink but that I didnt change
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2020-04-01T20:53:07 < Cracki> bad connection in the wiring?
2020-04-01T20:53:16 < Cracki> can drop amperage severely
2020-04-01T20:53:24 < Steffanx> Can't you easily measure the current flow mr bitmask?
2020-04-01T20:53:25 < bitmask> I was playing with that a lot last night without any real luck
2020-04-01T20:53:26 < Cracki> but... you see the amps on the supply right
2020-04-01T20:53:35 < bitmask> yea the supply shows it
2020-04-01T20:54:03 < Cracki> does voltage matter at all, so long as amps are right?
2020-04-01T20:54:21 < Cracki> temperature of the soup might matter
2020-04-01T20:54:31 < bitmask> last success which worked great was just wrapping some wire around the piece which surprised me that it worked.  that stopped working, then I super glued the wire to the piece (not covering the whole exposed wire) and painting the graphite right over it
2020-04-01T20:54:42 < bitmask> i tried various voltages
2020-04-01T20:54:44 < Cracki> maybe there's some kind of contamination that carries current better than the copper you have in there
2020-04-01T20:54:46 < bitmask> temperature hasn't changed
2020-04-01T20:55:37 < Cracki> new batch of soup? same old? whichever, try the other?
2020-04-01T20:55:43 < bitmask> Im printing some more of the pieces I had success with.  gonna try a couple different ink combos and see if I can get it working
2020-04-01T20:55:47 < Steffanx> PaulFertser: im not sure what you mean with single internet ip. you still have an ip right? Shared some others.
2020-04-01T20:55:49 < bitmask> maybe I just had bad luck yesterday :P
2020-04-01T20:56:17 < Steffanx> Zilenc3: sorry i dont know.
2020-04-01T20:56:42 < bitmask> I did modify the solution, the one I had was kinda in the middleish of acid vs copper sulfate.  I found other recipes and creating two separate versions, one high acid/low copper for electroplating and one high copper/low acid for electroforming
2020-04-01T20:57:05 < Steffanx> Zilenc3:  there are different versions though. v1, v2 (not sure if more)
2020-04-01T20:57:12 < PaulFertser> Steffanx: no, you get some LAN IP, not Internet IP.
2020-04-01T20:57:14 < bitmask> neither worked
2020-04-01T20:57:46 < Steffanx> PaulFertser: But seen from the outside world you must have one.
2020-04-01T20:58:03 < Steffanx> but yeah. You dont get it :P
2020-04-01T20:58:07 < PaulFertser> Steffanx: good luck using SIP over it...
2020-04-01T20:58:23 < PaulFertser> Or IRC DCC. Or hosting a web-server.
2020-04-01T20:58:47 < specing> PaulFertser: I'm on CGNAT
2020-04-01T20:58:48 < jpa-> sounds like some hacker business
2020-04-01T20:58:54 < Steffanx> Sure, I understand that. But it's still internet access imho.
2020-04-01T20:59:21 < specing> PaulFertser: but I get a real IP
2020-04-01T20:59:46 < specing> PaulFertser: Anyway, 4G LTE internet is 50% cheaper than FTTH and faster, so why not?
2020-04-01T20:59:54 < BrainDamage> huge latency
2020-04-01T21:00:00 < specing> BrainDamage: not even close
2020-04-01T21:00:01 < Zilenc3> Steffanx, There were about 5 cmsis_os.h files with variations for their definitions. Need to figure out what's going on. Then a few more with os1.h & os2.h.
2020-04-01T21:00:05 < BrainDamage> and the service is oversold
2020-04-01T21:00:17 < specing> BrainDamage: so it broadband access
2020-04-01T21:00:29 < BrainDamage> not as much as cellular lines, at least here
2020-04-01T21:00:49 < Steffanx> I pay for 250MBit/s and i've never seen it less than that.
2020-04-01T21:00:54 < BrainDamage> I still have my landline rates, while my phone's modem is struggling to get 1/4tf of capacity
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2020-04-01T21:01:50 < specing> BrainDamage: let me put it this way, I get max speed whenever I do anything
2020-04-01T21:02:06 < specing> which is 25mbit
2020-04-01T21:03:02 < PaulFertser> specing: I pay 6 EUR a month for 70/70 Mb/s 1 IPv4 wired Ethernet access.
2020-04-01T21:03:09 < Steffanx> So crippled internet access is not "providing"  internet PaulFertser? ;)
2020-04-01T21:03:20 < PaulFertser> Steffanx: it's not in my book, yes
2020-04-01T21:04:59 < specing> PaulFertser: nice! But that's in russia?
2020-04-01T21:05:14 < PaulFertser> specing: yes, in moscow russia.
2020-04-01T21:06:04 < Cracki> is it that cheap because houses have many tenants, so very little digging, more running wires inside?
2020-04-01T21:06:07 < specing> PaulFertser: cheapest FTTH is 10/10 and 24 eur a month
2020-04-01T21:06:13 < jpa-> i pay 5 EUR per month for 10/10, 1 public ip cable modem
2020-04-01T21:06:34 < specing> Cracki: it's cheap because the infrastructure is/was government owned
2020-04-01T21:06:34 < PaulFertser> And another ISP (at my parents') gives 50 (and now 100 for being a long-time customer) for 3.7 EUR.
2020-04-01T21:06:36 < BrainDamage> PaulFertser: unfortunately, most people don't care or don't even know what a public ip entails
2020-04-01T21:06:52 < Cracki> 30 bucks for 100/40 with ipv6 but the ip changes every week or so
2020-04-01T21:06:59 < PaulFertser> Cracki: yes, that's for multi-apartment houses.
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2020-04-01T21:07:39 < Cracki> most people don't need a public IP and may even be better off without one
2020-04-01T21:08:05 < PaulFertser> Cracki: and just about 10 years ago many links were made by hanging wires and fiber between adjacent houses, so no digging even :)
2020-04-01T21:08:15 < Cracki> love it
2020-04-01T21:08:44 < PaulFertser> specing: no, I think the infra was never government owned, at least certainly not the last mile.
2020-04-01T21:08:50 < Steffanx> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Joed0P3hhbc such lock picking today.
2020-04-01T21:09:14 < Cracki> around here you have tiny shit houses, not even "channels" in the sidewalks or under the roads where you could run cable through. everyone has to dig, nobody bothers improving the situation
2020-04-01T21:09:30 < specing> PaulFertser: here most infra is (indirectly)
2020-04-01T21:09:38 < specing> PaulFertser: since the biggest company is state owned
2020-04-01T21:09:51 < BrainDamage> here the roads are permanent scars because they keep digging them to lay cables
2020-04-01T21:12:08 < Cracki> at least dig up the sidewalks instead. pedestrians weigh less and they're paved anyway
2020-04-01T21:14:24 < PaulFertser> Steffanx: hm, his humour is usually way more nuanced, and tbh I prefer it that way.
2020-04-01T21:15:58 < Steffanx> its ##stm32 humor.
2020-04-01T21:16:37 < PaulFertser> I do not remember anal sex preparations discussed here yet.
2020-04-01T21:17:13 < Steffanx> i bet it has been discussed in the past.
2020-04-01T21:18:38 < Cracki> https://i.redd.it/bs3gevgc6wf01.png
2020-04-01T21:19:20 < BrainDamage> PaulFertser: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zfnkvh3eBok
2020-04-01T21:20:31 < Steffanx> Have some other music video then: https://youtu.be/YVhS0KBQVjw?t=11 made by a dutchie.
2020-04-01T21:20:35 < Steffanx> y
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2020-04-01T21:21:45 < boddax> it seems to be an ricchiu
2020-04-01T21:22:05 < Steffanx> lol what's a ricchiu
2020-04-01T21:22:31 < boddax> big ears
2020-04-01T21:28:43 < boddax> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W5siOf7ilws
2020-04-01T21:29:00 < PaulFertser> "Marlon said to me: 'Maria, don't worry, it's just a movie', but during the scene, even though what Marlon was doing wasn't real, I was crying real tears. I felt humiliated and to be honest, I felt a little raped, both by Marlon and by Bertolucci. After the scene, Marlon didn't console me or apologise. Thankfully, there was just one take."
2020-04-01T21:29:25 < boddax> he sais stefanx ?
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2020-04-01T21:39:33 < Steffanx> doesnt work for me boddax
2020-04-01T21:40:21 < boddax> :)) you dont feel actracted
2020-04-01T21:41:40 < Steffanx> i mean, the video doesnt work. it wants me to click on some button that is unclickable.
2020-04-01T21:42:21 < boddax> all right dont know why
2020-04-01T21:44:42 < Steffanx> probably because im not logged in or something
2020-04-01T21:45:39 < Streaker> Steffanx: you're not old enough. The video is age restricted.
2020-04-01T21:45:50 -!- sterna [~Adium@h-90-120.A137.corp.bahnhof.se] has quit [Quit: Leaving.]
2020-04-01T21:45:55 < BrainDamage> https://invidio.us/watch?v=W5siOf7ilws&autoplay=0&continue=0&dark_mode=false&listen=0&local=0&loop=0&nojs=1&player_style=invidious&quality=dash&subtitles=en%2Cit%2C&thin_mode=true
2020-04-01T21:46:01 < boddax> lol have restrictions
2020-04-01T21:46:03 < BrainDamage> there, usee a proxy
2020-04-01T21:46:16 < BrainDamage> invidious makes for a better youtube ui anyway
2020-04-01T21:46:28 < BrainDamage> and doesn't require js
2020-04-01T21:47:24 < boddax> 0000 the pin code for adults
2020-04-01T21:47:25 < zyp> heh, I'm sorting an old box of cables, for some reason I found no less than three hdmi to micro-hdmi cables
2020-04-01T21:48:02 < zyp> as far as I know the only things I've got that uses micro-hdmi are a couple of SBCs, and I've never had a monitor plugged into either of them
2020-04-01T21:48:13 < Steffanx> but you planned on doing that
2020-04-01T21:48:26 < boddax> from old boxes can came out oùnly gpib cables
2020-04-01T21:48:27 < zyp> could be, I remember I picked up a cable once
2020-04-01T21:48:35 < zyp> but I don't know why I've got three
2020-04-01T21:48:47 < zyp> I also found one with mini-hdmi
2020-04-01T21:48:54 < Steffanx> you bought 3 for free shipping
2020-04-01T21:48:57 < zyp> that one I've used with my camera
2020-04-01T21:49:00 < zyp> haha, could be
2020-04-01T21:55:05 < boddax> are you from scotland zyp?
2020-04-01T21:58:49 < zyp> no, why?
2020-04-01T22:00:00 < boddax> now my code is like a stranded ship in making TIM2 count external pulses and reset to zero after counted till 32
2020-04-01T22:00:33 < zyp> why scotland?
2020-04-01T22:01:30 < boddax> nothing ..there someone other similar nick from scotland ..another channel years ago
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2020-04-01T22:04:49 < Steffanx> Does it count at all mr boddax?
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2020-04-01T22:05:47 < boddax> none ..dont know how to start to write it ..do you have any reusable code Steffanx
2020-04-01T22:06:46 < boddax> because pulse nr 32 is wider need to sync it
2020-04-01T22:07:03 < boddax> wider than the other 31's
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2020-04-01T22:09:50 < mawk> Steffanx: what's the tv show again where the police shows CCTV footage and you can call to give clues ?
2020-04-01T22:09:54 < mawk> for robberies and all
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2020-04-01T22:13:36 < Steffanx> Opsporing verzocht, mawk?
2020-04-01T22:13:44 < mawk> ah yes
2020-04-01T22:13:46 < mawk> thanks
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2020-04-01T22:17:42 < Steffanx> Can we see you in there?
2020-04-01T22:21:11 < mawk> lol
2020-04-01T22:21:13 < mawk> not yet
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2020-04-01T22:28:25 < Steffanx> there is hope
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2020-04-01T22:54:55 < catphish> farnell have spectacularly wasted their own money. i ordered something for £19.50, they do free delivery on orders over £20, so i threw in some £0.90 electrical tape
2020-04-01T22:55:16 < catphish> they've just shipped them separately.
2020-04-01T22:56:25 < Cracki> maybe shipping is free/cheap for them already and whatever they charge you is to make you buy more shit from them
2020-04-01T22:58:46 < englishman> lol catphish 
2020-04-01T22:58:58 < englishman> i once added some 0.50 cent part to hit arrow min order
2020-04-01T22:59:05 < englishman> they shipped 4 packages, but cancelled the thing i originally wanted
2020-04-01T22:59:07 -!- c10ud [~c10ud@emesene/dictator/c10ud] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds]
2020-04-01T22:59:14 < catphish> Cracki: probably the case, but shipping has to cost *something*
2020-04-01T22:59:56 < rajkosto> farnell is the only ones who do free shipping/normal price shipping to here
2020-04-01T23:00:05 < rajkosto> so they gotta have a killer deal
2020-04-01T23:00:18 < catphish> what i actually wanted was https://uk.farnell.com/stmicroelectronics/nucleo-f439zi/dev-board-32bit-arm-cortex-m4/dp/2845532
2020-04-01T23:00:43 < catphish> farnell is always great value for UK delivery
2020-04-01T23:00:57 < rajkosto> i have to use export.farnell.com
2020-04-01T23:01:19 < catphish> i don't know much about avnet
2020-04-01T23:01:22 < rajkosto> which uses the same sign on system so you cant have identical account names/emails, but you cant use the UK farnell account on the export website
2020-04-01T23:01:23 < Steffanx> catphish, yeah arrow does that too. Order for x to get free shipping. Get your 5 items in 6 packages with fedex and ups.
2020-04-01T23:01:27 < catphish> but i've been using farnell for UK orders for a long time
2020-04-01T23:01:51 < zyp> rajkosto, that's silly
2020-04-01T23:02:24 < catphish> also, i can't actually log into farnell today
2020-04-01T23:02:29 < catphish> i had to order as a guest
2020-04-01T23:02:39 < catphish> even after resetting my password it says its wrong
2020-04-01T23:02:41 < Steffanx> they dont want to get catphished.
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2020-04-01T23:07:39 < catphish> ah lovely, they've let me log in now
2020-04-01T23:17:05 < catphish> looking forward to my ethernet STM32 :)
2020-04-01T23:19:21 < Steffanx> Will it be IoT?
2020-04-01T23:20:30 < catphish> sort of, i want to build a building magnetic lock access control system
2020-04-01T23:20:55 < catphish> (with an open source web interface)
2020-04-01T23:21:37 < catphish> my office uses a proprietary system, it's pretty unreliable and uses an ancient proprietay windows app to control it
2020-04-01T23:21:54 < catphish> figured with an stm32 and a coupe of mosfets i could replace it with something less messy
2020-04-01T23:22:51 < catphish> the ethernet is a hassle, not sure how easily i'll be able to build that, but i can just piggyback a nucleo board for a proof of concept and my own use
2020-04-01T23:25:30 < zyp> ethernet itself is easy, it's the higher layers that are the hassle
2020-04-01T23:31:38 < catphish> zyp: well, i have a lot of expertise in the higher layers (though not necessary embedded libraries for them), but very little idea how to set up the ethernet PHY
2020-04-01T23:31:41 < emeb> I've built several STM32 boards w/ ethernet. One of these day's I'll try something more than just the canned web-page example.
2020-04-01T23:32:14 < catphish> plus the more i solder the more i hate it, i dread soldering a large stm32 and QFN PHY
2020-04-01T23:32:56 < Cracki> raspberry pi, python, gpio :D
2020-04-01T23:33:18 < catphish> i was actually tempted to use a rpi
2020-04-01T23:33:31 < Cracki> you can even ssh into your door and unlock it, or have it monitor the wifi for new stations
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2020-04-01T23:33:37 < catphish> but i hate mixing linux and electronics
2020-04-01T23:33:53 < Steffanx> Install windows on a spare server
2020-04-01T23:34:01 < Steffanx> Add a usb IO thingy
2020-04-01T23:34:04 < catphish> anyway, i'll piggyback a nucleo to begin with
2020-04-01T23:34:08 < catphish> and see how i get on
2020-04-01T23:34:09 < Steffanx> You already have that
2020-04-01T23:34:55 < zyp> catphish, a phy doesn't necessarily need any setup
2020-04-01T23:35:16 < zyp> with sane defaults (autoneg on, etc…) it can run at default settings
2020-04-01T23:35:30 < catphish> that's useful
2020-04-01T23:36:11 < catphish> i'm lacking the will to design and solder the layout though
2020-04-01T23:36:27 < Steffanx> I guess catphish  wants to do it all from scratch
2020-04-01T23:36:32 < Steffanx> No lwip and stuff?
2020-04-01T23:36:33 < catphish> hopefully i'll find some motivation and realise it's not that hard
2020-04-01T23:36:53 < Cracki> know any hardware inclined people in your town that might need a door thingy too?
2020-04-01T23:37:14 < Cracki> or you can stick disco/nucleo in a permanent installation
2020-04-01T23:37:29 < catphish> well i always try to design stuff to be mass producible, even though i've never actually mass produced a project :)
2020-04-01T23:37:44 < Cracki> exercise for the reader
2020-04-01T23:37:46 < catphish> but like i said, i will probably start with a nucleo
2020-04-01T23:37:52 < zyp> catphish, IME the part that requires the most work (for the ethernet layer) is figuring out how to interact correctly with the ethernet peripheral's DMA engine
2020-04-01T23:37:58 < catphish> make a carrier board with some mosfets
2020-04-01T23:38:15 < catphish> zyp: i hadn't even thought that far down the line :(
2020-04-01T23:39:22 < Cracki> grab a pi anyway, put both on an isolated network or just a cable, so you can control when packets arrive. any normal lan has background noise
2020-04-01T23:39:43 < catphish> Cracki: it's ok, i know networking :)
2020-04-01T23:39:47 < Cracki> :D
2020-04-01T23:40:29 < Cracki> i stay the fuck away from networking and linux and server administration. half because it's tedious, half because those that love it are prime weirdos
2020-04-01T23:40:46 < catphish> that's my dayjob :)
2020-04-01T23:40:58 < zyp> haha
2020-04-01T23:40:59 < catphish> and i'm pretty good at it :)
2020-04-01T23:40:59 < Cracki> you hide your power levels well
2020-04-01T23:41:36 < catphish> do i though?
2020-04-01T23:42:17 < Cracki> i know you from such  feature films as Don't Copy That Floppy
2020-04-01T23:42:29 < Thorn> https://www.trustnodes.com/2020/03/29/italy-finally-starts-mass-treatment-with-hydroxychloroquine
2020-04-01T23:42:36 < catphish> anyway, i'm not doing great right now, i want to do this project, but have basically zero energy to design the hardware
2020-04-01T23:42:40 < zyp> I'm kinda with Cracki here though, I'd rather use a linux capable thing for networking stuff
2020-04-01T23:43:08 < Cracki> the dma stuff is probably the most fun part of that stm32 ethernet project
2020-04-01T23:43:35 < zyp> I still need to do fix my DMA code for workstuff
2020-04-01T23:43:39 < Cracki> figure it out, make it run as efficient as possible
2020-04-01T23:43:49 < Cracki> iperf :D
2020-04-01T23:43:49 < catphish> well, i want a stm32 for the day to day running of the system, letting people in and out of the building, not much to go wrong
2020-04-01T23:44:16 < Cracki> you can incorporate ibuttons/nfc
2020-04-01T23:44:24 < zyp> I took the laziest approach ever when I first brought up ethernet for the workstuff, and it's been working well enough so far that I haven't bothered redoing it yet
2020-04-01T23:44:31 < zyp> but it's been pretty high on the list for a while now
2020-04-01T23:44:36 < catphish> i suppose i could just connect an stm32 and a pi by uart
2020-04-01T23:44:54 < Cracki> but then what does the stm32 do that the pi can't with gpio
2020-04-01T23:45:14 < catphish> have the stm32 do the main work and the pi provide an elaborate uart to ethernet brudge
2020-04-01T23:45:17 < catphish> *bridge
2020-04-01T23:45:20 < Cracki> you could do ethernet with stm32 and gpio with a pi. that'd annoy people :D
2020-04-01T23:45:27 < catphish> haha
2020-04-01T23:45:41 < Cracki> huge learning opportunity
2020-04-01T23:45:53 < zyp> basically I just grabbed two buffer descriptors; one for tx and one for rx, pointed the rx one to a static buffer, which gets fed to a handle_packet() method and then resubmitted
2020-04-01T23:46:14 < zyp> send_packet() throws a pointer into the single tx buffer descriptor and starts it
2020-04-01T23:46:29 < catphish> zyp: i only need to send tiny amount of data, that would be my approach too
2020-04-01T23:46:42 < catphish> though if there's an off the shelf library, i'm not opposed to that :)
2020-04-01T23:46:42 < zyp> which basically means I can't ever have more than one receive or send job queued
2020-04-01T23:46:55 < zyp> and not making use of scatter/gather either
2020-04-01T23:47:18 < catphish> i assumed i could just use ethernet like a uart
2020-04-01T23:47:33 < catphish> an in buffer and an out buffer
2020-04-01T23:47:43 < catphish> (one each)
2020-04-01T23:47:44 < zyp> most of the time it works fine since I'm running some industrial ethernet stuff that does a request/response pattern
2020-04-01T23:47:46 < Cracki> you can send plain ethernet packets, maybe IP packets
2020-04-01T23:47:56 < zyp> yeah
2020-04-01T23:48:29 < zyp> plain ethernet is super easy, just add a small header with source/dest mac and ethertype
2020-04-01T23:48:45 < zyp> I used to use 0xb007 ethertype for my bootloader
2020-04-01T23:49:01 < catphish> everything up to UDP is trivially hardcoded
2020-04-01T23:49:26 < catphish> it's only if you want TCP things escalate quickly
2020-04-01T23:49:39 < zyp> simple udp is also easy if you just avoid fragmenting, just add another two headers
2020-04-01T23:49:48 < zyp> that's what my current bootloader protocol does
2020-04-01T23:50:58 < catphish> right
2020-04-01T23:51:20 < catphish> i can do a udp/ip/ethernet + arp protocol with my eyes shut :)
2020-04-01T23:51:35 < catphish> but i'd definitely consider using a library to add TCP/TLS
2020-04-01T23:51:42 < zyp> I also handle arp requests, but I don't send them; most of my udp traffic are handling of commands, so I just reply to the same address that asked me
2020-04-01T23:52:01 < catphish> yeah you can be lazy with arp if you only reply :)
2020-04-01T23:52:21 < Cracki> I'm so glad boss didn't need me to make that enc28j60 work...
2020-04-01T23:52:40 < zyp> I do send out some sensor data for logging, so I've hardcoded destination ip/mac for that
2020-04-01T23:53:40 < catphish> anyway, this won't be a problem, but i don't look forward to the hardware design
2020-04-01T23:54:04 < zyp> normally I'd just use broadcast or multicast for that, but the receiver is on a different subnet so broadcast won't work, and the receiver also doesn't support multicast
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2020-04-01T23:54:23 < zyp> the latter I found out after spending a couple of hours figuring out how to do multicast :p
2020-04-01T23:54:45 < doomba> du. du hast. du hast atmega328p
2020-04-01T23:54:50 < catphish> multicast is cool but not well supported
2020-04-01T23:55:07 < zyp> catphish, hardware design is easy if you just pick a nice phy that doesn't need a ton of passives
2020-04-01T23:55:51 < catphish> KSZ8081looks good
2020-04-01T23:55:57 < catphish> *KSZ8081 looks good
2020-04-01T23:56:35 < zyp> yes, that's the one I've used
2020-04-01T23:56:56 < catphish> QFN one?
2020-04-01T23:57:19 < Thorn> is there a guide somewhere on how to set up a project with existing sources in eclipse / cdt / cubeide? this cdt shit seems incredibly buggy
2020-04-01T23:57:19 < zyp> https://bin.jvnv.net/file/Q8moB.png
2020-04-01T23:58:04 < zyp> https://bin.jvnv.net/file/ScDxl.png <- also here, schematic for the phy should be identical, just laid out differently
2020-04-01T23:58:48 < catphish> zyp: crystal for stm32 + crystal for KSZ8081?
2020-04-01T23:59:02 < catphish> i guess they're cheap and easy to install :)
2020-04-01T23:59:34 < zyp> yeah, I didn't bother trying any crystal sharing tricks
2020-04-01T23:59:54 < zyp> I went with the same 25MHz for both to save a BOM line
--- Day changed Thu Apr 02 2020
2020-04-02T00:00:06 < zyp> so in theory they could be shared
2020-04-02T00:00:26 < catphish> i usually just run my stm32 without a crystal
2020-04-02T00:00:51 < catphish> but not always possible
2020-04-02T00:01:21 < zyp> depends what clock precision you need
2020-04-02T00:01:26 < catphish> indeed
2020-04-02T00:01:34 < catphish> anyway, that looks simple enough
2020-04-02T00:01:46 < catphish> RMII?
2020-04-02T00:01:49 < zyp> of course
2020-04-02T00:02:01 < zyp> nobody does full MII
2020-04-02T00:02:08 < Cracki> IEEE 1488 Präzisionszeitprotokoll
2020-04-02T00:02:17 < catphish> well i'll give it a go :)
2020-04-02T00:02:27 < Cracki> wouldn't be surprised if there's clock training from this like there is from usb SOF
2020-04-02T00:03:09 < zyp> there isn't
2020-04-02T00:04:43 < catphish> i don't understand RMII clocking at all
2020-04-02T00:04:59 < catphish> is the MCU clock used at all?
2020-04-02T00:05:06 < zyp> but I mean, the MAC in the MCU gets RMII REFCLK, which I assume serves all the critical clocking, so the MCU SYSCLK probably doesn't need to be precise at all
2020-04-02T00:05:28 < catphish> that's what i hoped
2020-04-02T00:05:35 < zyp> catphish, not for the RMII interface
2020-04-02T00:06:04 < catphish> in that case i really don't need accurate clocking at all
2020-04-02T00:06:24 < zyp> RMII comms happens in the REFCLK domain, and then I guess it crosses over to HCLK somewhere noncritical
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2020-04-02T00:07:19 < zyp> but unless you're designing something super small, just put down the footprint for a 25MHz crystal to the MCU also
2020-04-02T00:07:35 < zyp> that way it's easy to just populate two of them if it turns out you need it
2020-04-02T00:07:42 < zyp> and leave it unpopulated if you don't
2020-04-02T00:07:47 < catphish> can do, size and power are of zero concern in this design
2020-04-02T00:08:24 < catphish> i'm hanging one of these off it https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/DC-12V-Electric-Magnetic-Door-Lock-Electromagnetic-Access-Control-280KG/303032751109
2020-04-02T00:08:28 < Steffanx> Reminds me of the awesome LPC1788. Where the entire cpu hangs when the REFCLK isnt there. Even SWD fails when that happens.
2020-04-02T00:08:51 < Steffanx> *when it isnt there when you enable the mac
2020-04-02T00:08:57 < zyp> according to the invoice for last I did a board with ethernet, those 25MHz crystals cost me $.18 each
2020-04-02T00:09:04 < zyp> not a whole lot to save by omitting it
2020-04-02T00:09:05 < catphish> zyp: lovely
2020-04-02T00:09:10 < Thorn> speaking of lpc17xx, why do they recommend or even require an inverter on refclk?
2020-04-02T00:09:19 < zyp> buffering?
2020-04-02T00:09:23 < Thorn> is it a delay or somewthing?
2020-04-02T00:10:25 < catphish> zyp: got a schematic for that KSZ8081 design?
2020-04-02T00:10:28 < Thorn> iirc lpc17xx also hungs whenn usb is in host mode and you connect a hub to it
2020-04-02T00:10:37 < Thorn> *hangs
2020-04-02T00:10:48 < Steffanx> The old guy at work did a test with and without it and decided to add it. Dont know the details anymore
2020-04-02T00:11:02 < Steffanx> To not add it*
2020-04-02T00:11:04 < Steffanx> Lol
2020-04-02T00:11:52 < zyp> catphish, https://bin.jvnv.net/file/utWMs.png
2020-04-02T00:12:04 < catphish> sexy, thanks!
2020-04-02T00:16:27 < sync> if you want to save on the 2nd xtal you can use 25MHz clock on your main cpu and use the MCO
2020-04-02T00:16:30 < sync> works really nice
2020-04-02T00:16:42 < catphish> zyp: what's D7 for? :|
2020-04-02T00:16:53 < zyp> power on reset
2020-04-02T00:16:57 < qyx> thats from the datasheet
2020-04-02T00:17:00 < zyp> yes
2020-04-02T00:17:00 < sync> Cracki: apparently the STMPTP thing is broken
2020-04-02T00:17:11 < Cracki> hah
2020-04-02T00:17:19 < catphish> what does it do?
2020-04-02T00:17:24 < Cracki> they advertised 1588 on some trade fair
2020-04-02T00:17:28 < Cracki> precision time protocol
2020-04-02T00:17:34 < Cracki> like NTP but more precise, for lan
2020-04-02T00:17:46 < zyp> D7 discharges C35 quickly when VDD goes low, R30 charges C35 slowly when VDD goes high
2020-04-02T00:17:46 < Cracki> not quite like ntp but you get the idea
2020-04-02T00:18:29 < zyp> which means that when VDD go low, RST# also goes low instantly, but it takes a while to go high after VDD goes high
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2020-04-02T00:19:23 < catphish> zyp: i thought that was the case, but who cares about the level of RST when there's no VDD?
2020-04-02T00:19:50 < zyp> without D7, C35 would remain charged if you got a power glitch, which means you wouldn't get a reset event after VDD comes back
2020-04-02T00:19:59 < catphish> i guess this just ensures it's reset during a brief outage
2020-04-02T00:20:04 < zyp> exactly
2020-04-02T00:20:14 < catphish> yeah i see, thanks
2020-04-02T00:20:29 < zyp> it's not about the level when there's no VDD, but the level right after VDD rises :)
2020-04-02T00:20:42 < zyp> if C35 already held charge, you wouldn't get the required reset
2020-04-02T00:21:27 < catphish> yeah i see that now :)
2020-04-02T00:21:58 < catphish> hopefully one can get tiny signal diodes
2020-04-02T00:22:37 < zyp> yeah, I think I'm using BAT54 or something
2020-04-02T00:23:21 < catphish> also, does that magjack have an LED in it?
2020-04-02T00:23:37 < catphish> will definitely want one of thoe
2020-04-02T00:23:39 < zyp> two, GC/GA and YC/YA
2020-04-02T00:23:55 < zyp> I used HR911105A
2020-04-02T00:24:21 < catphish> i wondered why you only had one LED connected to the PHY
2020-04-02T00:24:32 < zyp> because the phy only got one led output
2020-04-02T00:24:42 < catphish> ah, no speed indicator?
2020-04-02T00:24:52 < zyp> no, but who cares about that
2020-04-02T00:24:52 < catphish> i guess the MCU can provide that if needed
2020-04-02T00:25:19 < Thorn> I used the 2nd led to signal dhcp config being received
2020-04-02T00:25:29 < catphish> seems sane
2020-04-02T00:25:38 < Thorn> (i.e. connected it to a gpio)
2020-04-02T00:25:41 < qyx> me too
2020-04-02T00:26:04 < zyp> I didn't think that far and just left it disconnected :)
2020-04-02T00:26:25 < catphish> well you folks are lovely, i will put something together, hopefully my nucleo will arrive tomorrow
2020-04-02T00:27:09 < qyx> also, catphish, re: your own tcp/ip stack, been there done that, do not repeat my fails
2020-04-02T00:27:36 < catphish> i'm not sure i fancy writing my own TCP
2020-04-02T00:27:40 < qyx> then I realized enc28j60 errata is probably longer than half of the datasheet
2020-04-02T00:29:22 < catphish> UDP may suffice
2020-04-02T00:29:54 < catphish> with a simple custom retry protocol and some hash based authentication
2020-04-02T00:31:14 < zyp> I wonder how SCTP is to implement, compared to TCP
2020-04-02T00:31:29 < catphish> i've never looked at it
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2020-04-02T00:33:00 < zyp> I don't like bytestreams, I prefer transports that does framing for me
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2020-04-02T00:33:38 < catphish> i agree, one of my favourite things about ethernet/ip/udp is free framing
2020-04-02T00:33:44 < zyp> running a framing layer on top of a bytestream over a framed protocol always seems so pointless
2020-04-02T00:34:03 < jly> how you doin martin you crazy italian prick
2020-04-02T00:34:25 < zyp> this is why I don't like USB CDC ACM either :)
2020-04-02T00:34:48 < zyp> I mean, for text consoles it's fine
2020-04-02T00:35:00 < zyp> but for binary commands it's annoying
2020-04-02T00:35:23 < qyx> zyp: haha
2020-04-02T00:35:41 < zyp> but anyway
2020-04-02T00:36:01 < zyp> SCTP looks cute in theory, but I've never seen it used in practice
2020-04-02T00:36:57 < zyp> parts of it seems like the best of both worlds between TCP and UDP, while other parts of it looks like a kitchen sink (the multihoming stuff)
2020-04-02T00:37:34 < catphish> udp+proprietary retry should do the job :)
2020-04-02T00:37:53 < catphish> for binary protocols, streams are pretty useless
2020-04-02T00:38:09 < zyp> yeah
2020-04-02T00:39:53 < catphish> zyp: what stm32 have you used for ethernet? i figured any the of f4 would do 407/417/427/437/429/439
2020-04-02T00:40:13 < zyp> f407/f427
2020-04-02T00:41:25 < zyp> the first design was originally designed for f407, and then they decided they wanted more flash to fit everything, so we swapped to f427 since they are footprint compatible
2020-04-02T00:41:45 < zyp> (f407 has 1MB flash max, f427 has a 2MB variant)
2020-04-02T00:42:28 < catphish> makes sense, 407 seems adequate for my needs, but anything up to 439 would be fine (which is what comes on the nucleo)
2020-04-02T00:42:37 < zyp> if I redid that design I'd add some SPI flash to hold data like webpages and whatever
2020-04-02T00:43:01 < Steffanx> Will you run PHP?
2020-04-02T00:43:03 < zyp> but it was cheaper to just switch to f427 rather than respin the board to add more components
2020-04-02T00:43:23 < catphish> 437 seemed like the best choice for me
2020-04-02T00:43:34 < zyp> eh, it's much the same anyway, isn't it?
2020-04-02T00:43:40 < catphish> more memory + crypto in case i find a TLS library
2020-04-02T00:43:54 < catphish> but yeah, probably all the same
2020-04-02T00:44:16 < qyx> do you like paperwork?
2020-04-02T00:44:31 < catphish> yep!
2020-04-02T00:44:32 < zyp> f439 is just a f429 with crypto, f429 is just a f427 with lcd controller and f427 is just a f407 with dram support
2020-04-02T00:44:52 < catphish> that's a useful summary
2020-04-02T00:45:00 < catphish> with that in mind, i likely just want 407
2020-04-02T00:45:03 < zyp> plus minor differences like ram and flash sizes and max clock speeds
2020-04-02T00:45:07 < catphish> but if they're all pin compatible, i don't care
2020-04-02T00:45:14 < catphish> whatever i can source
2020-04-02T00:45:45 < catphish> i probably won't do TLS but if i did, i thought the cryto module might be useful
2020-04-02T00:46:05 < zyp> I'd design for f407 just for price/availability if I didn't have any design criteria that called for a more expensive variant
2020-04-02T00:46:16 < catphish> seems ideal
2020-04-02T00:46:50 < zyp> not sure how useful the crypto periph is for TLS, in practice it's probably way less work to just drop in a software crypto lib
2020-04-02T00:47:12 < zyp> unless there are decent TLS libs that supports offloading to the crypto periph
2020-04-02T00:47:37 < qyx> I would go for software nowadays
2020-04-02T00:47:46 < qyx> unless aes-gcm is supported at least
2020-04-02T00:47:50 < qyx> which should be on stm32
2020-04-02T00:47:51 < qyx> but still
2020-04-02T00:48:09 < Steffanx> But knowing catphish he will do it from scratch ;)
2020-04-02T00:48:17  * catphish shrug
2020-04-02T00:48:32 < catphish> software TLS would probably be fine, doesn't need to be fast
2020-04-02T00:48:33 < qyx> most cryptoanarchysts use DJB's ciphers instead and thres no hw crypto for them
2020-04-02T00:48:42 < qyx> and they are optimized for software implementations
2020-04-02T00:49:14 < catphish> well i'll start designing with a 407 and a KSZ8081RNA
2020-04-02T00:49:52 < qyx> zyp: 407/427, are they periph compatible too?
2020-04-02T00:50:04 < qyx> does 427 still have the old SPI?
2020-04-02T00:50:18 < zyp> I'm pretty sure most if not all f407 code can run unmodified on f427
2020-04-02T00:50:28 < zyp> but I might be wrong :)
2020-04-02T00:50:42 < qyx> idk, I didn't examine it, just asking
2020-04-02T00:50:48 < zyp> and that's assuming FSMC regs are a subset of FMC regs
2020-04-02T00:51:08 < zyp> well, that's the best answer I got
2020-04-02T00:51:23 < zyp> I didn't do software on that board, I just got contracted to do the hardware
2020-04-02T00:51:24 < qyx> heh, btw how's yoir LPC SDRAM thingie
2020-04-02T00:51:37 < zyp> the lpc43xx shit?
2020-04-02T00:51:42 < qyx> yes
2020-04-02T00:52:22 < Steffanx> Lol that was like 5 years ago?
2020-04-02T00:52:55 < qyx> it was before any stm32 had sdram
2020-04-02T00:52:58 < Steffanx> Or is time not going THAT fast
2020-04-02T00:53:10 < zyp> IIRC it was acting silly with resets and whatnot and didn't really play along well with my debugger, and that took all the fun out of playing with it
2020-04-02T00:53:50 < catphish> yay, kicad has KSZ8081RNA
2020-04-02T00:53:59 < zyp> Steffanx, should be more, I did that design in eagle so it was before I got altium
2020-04-02T00:53:59 < catphish> that's one less hassle
2020-04-02T00:54:29 < zyp> I guess maybe 2012
2020-04-02T00:56:41 < catphish> are all these magjack things pin compatible?
2020-04-02T00:56:57 < qyx> no
2020-04-02T00:57:03 < catphish> shame
2020-04-02T00:57:19 < zyp> many are
2020-04-02T00:57:25 < qyx> it was released in 2012, it was later probably
2020-04-02T00:57:36 < catphish> kicad gives me JK0654219
2020-04-02T00:57:38 < qyx> the lpc43xx
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2020-04-02T01:09:24 < catphish> found the magjack i need :) RJMG1BD3B8K1ANR
2020-04-02T01:10:32  * qyx aislering
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2020-04-02T01:14:04 < zyp> qyx, checked logs, started the design in oct 2012, assembled the first boards jan 04 2013
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2020-04-02T01:15:47 < Thorn> speaking of magjack pinouts, some seem to be designed to be put on the same pcb side as the phy, others on the other side (diff pair pins are mirrored)
2020-04-02T01:16:01 < zyp> catphish, why not the hanrun one I recommended?
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2020-04-02T01:16:43 < zyp> Thorn, I don't think it has anything to do with the PHY, it depends on whether the plug goes in tab up or tab down
2020-04-02T01:17:22 < Thorn> yes actually that's probably true
2020-04-02T01:17:29 < Thorn> I now recall some discussions
2020-04-02T01:17:35 < catphish> zyp: i didn't see it readily available from western sources, and i didn't have a kicad library footprint, RJMG1BD3B8K1ANR has both benefits
2020-04-02T01:17:55 < catphish> but if there's some reason your suggestion is better, i trust your opinion!
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2020-04-02T01:19:45 < zyp> well, I haven't looked at the price of the one you found, I just know the hanrun one is cheap and common
2020-04-02T01:20:42 < zyp> and I think there are footprint compatible ones from other brands (maybe even the one you found, I didn't check), if you insist on buying it from a western source
2020-04-02T01:21:58 < qyx> zyp: O_o I didn't expect it to be that old
2020-04-02T01:22:52 < qyx> regarding magjacks and phys, beware some magjacks have centertaps "wrongly" connected or not connected at all
2020-04-02T01:23:13 < qyx> eg. some old PHYs reguired bias to be at 3V3
2020-04-02T01:23:19 < zyp> qyx, the internal or external taps?
2020-04-02T01:23:28 < qyx> phy-side taps
2020-04-02T01:23:40 < qyx> some of them have them connected together
2020-04-02T01:23:52 < qyx> there were PHYs requiring different bias for the Rx pair
2020-04-02T01:24:16 < qyx> https://i.stack.imgur.com/gMuTB.png
2020-04-02T01:24:18 < qyx> see this for example
2020-04-02T01:24:21 < zyp> that doesn't make sense on any modern PHY
2020-04-02T01:24:42 < qyx> that KSZ requires two 0.1u caps on both taps
2020-04-02T01:24:44 < qyx> individually
2020-04-02T01:24:49 < zyp> if your phy does auto MDI-X, there can't be any schematic differences between the pairs, since they may switch roles
2020-04-02T01:25:15 < zyp> but otherwise you're right
2020-04-02T01:26:33 < zyp> some PHYs wants all CTs at 3.3V, some PHYs wants each individual CT floating and decoupled to ground, so get whatever is appropriate
2020-04-02T01:26:58 < zyp> and if you wanna do PoE, get something that breaks out the plug side CTs as well
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2020-04-02T01:39:02 < catphish> wonder why he centre taps aren't terminated internally
2020-04-02T01:40:13 < zyp> qyx just told you
2020-04-02T01:40:22 < zyp> how to terminate them depends on the PHY
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2020-04-02T01:41:29 < catphish> oh, so he did, i should consult the PHY docs i guess
2020-04-02T01:41:56 < zyp> the KSZ only needs a capacitor to ground on each
2020-04-02T01:42:39 < catphish> i saw that in your schematic, that's easy then
2020-04-02T01:43:50 < catphish> this is why i pay you guys so much
2020-04-02T02:11:48 < qyx> TIL THT USB connectors should be routed on the back layer
2020-04-02T02:12:04 < qyx> to avoid stubs
2020-04-02T02:13:00 < qyx> hrm fukit, yolo
2020-04-02T02:13:33 < zyp> unless you're doing usb3, I doubt it matters at all
2020-04-02T02:14:52 < zyp> but I mean, you don't have to route the entire length on the back, just route them over to the connector and then switch to the back layer for the last couple mm
2020-04-02T02:15:07 < qyx> yeah
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2020-04-02T02:22:31 < catphish> zyp: ripped off your design marvellously, thanks! https://nutty.tk/ethernet.pdf
2020-04-02T02:23:43 < zyp> I think the L might be a ferrite bead, did the design before I made a separate symbol for that
2020-04-02T02:24:04 < catphish> i assumed it was too, didn't check
2020-04-02T02:24:09 < qyx> there is one in kicad
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2020-04-02T02:24:33 < qyx> called ferrite_bead(_small) :>
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2020-04-02T02:24:43 < catphish> is 6.49k a real resistor value?
2020-04-02T02:24:54 < qyx> yes
2020-04-02T02:25:18 < catphish> handy, it'll do for the reset circuit too
2020-04-02T02:25:19 < qyx> such weird colorful schematic
2020-04-02T02:26:01 < qyx> the first thing I did in kicad was replacing those distracting colors with shades of gray
2020-04-02T02:26:43 < doomba> qyx: is there a way to still plot the default colors to pdf?
2020-04-02T02:26:54 < doomba> i noticed when i riced my colors, it was rendering pdfs with those colors
2020-04-02T02:27:00 < catphish> fixed https://nutty.tk/ethernet.pdf
2020-04-02T02:27:15 < catphish> i like the colours"
2020-04-02T02:27:15 < qyx> doomba: idk, I don't want them in PDFs neither
2020-04-02T02:27:16 < catphish> !
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2020-04-02T02:27:47 < qyx> I have few rules when I draw sch
2020-04-02T02:28:03 < qyx> eg. do not connect angled wires directly to symbols
2020-04-02T02:28:23 < doomba> my ocd for connecting to symbols is always 2 grid spaces no matter what
2020-04-02T02:28:30 < qyx> or use _small symbols if possible
2020-04-02T02:28:35 < qyx> yes
2020-04-02T02:28:44 < catphish> i lie awake at night worrying whether all symbols should have extra wire coming out of them
2020-04-02T02:28:58 < doomba> and i use net labels a lot
2020-04-02T02:28:59 < catphish> and whether to use small symbols or not
2020-04-02T02:29:40 -!- c10ud [~c10ud@emesene/dictator/c10ud] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds]
2020-04-02T02:29:44 < qyx> also I avoid connecting power symbols to multiple unrelated parts
2020-04-02T02:29:48 < catphish> it's mostly the location of labels i worry about too much
2020-04-02T02:30:25 < catphish> lots of power symbols seems nicer then fewer
2020-04-02T02:30:30 < qyx> then it looks like https://i.imgur.com/Vx73cBl.png
2020-04-02T02:30:53 < catphish> that's beautiful
2020-04-02T02:30:57 < catphish> apart from being grey
2020-04-02T02:31:02 < catphish> why so grey?
2020-04-02T02:32:33 < doomba> https://i.imgur.com/FSvQtAL.png
2020-04-02T02:32:56 < qyx> or your KSZ https://i.imgur.com/R6Pkx7o.png
2020-04-02T02:33:37 < qyx> I like grey
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2020-04-02T02:35:03 < catphish> does everyone have a KSZ design? lol
2020-04-02T02:35:21 < catphish> i like that power setup
2020-04-02T02:35:24 < zyp> yes
2020-04-02T02:36:22 < catphish> i'll tidy it up and use small symbols! :)
2020-04-02T02:36:51 < catphish> feel more positive about building it now anyway
2020-04-02T02:37:00 < catphish> not many external components needed
2020-04-02T02:37:08 < catphish> just gotta solder the stupid qfn
2020-04-02T02:37:20 < doomba> qfn aint that bad
2020-04-02T02:37:52 < catphish> my main problem with them has been when they had a large centre pad and ended up floating
2020-04-02T02:38:17 < doomba> my prob was the footprint i used the pads were too short and it caused bridging
2020-04-02T02:38:34 < catphish> otherwise they actually seem to flow better then legs, i just dislike that i can't see the results properly
2020-04-02T02:38:48 < catphish> the main thing seems to be less solder
2020-04-02T02:38:59 < qyx> actually i have never made a short on a QFN
2020-04-02T02:39:02 < catphish> less solder = less floating, less bridging
2020-04-02T02:39:16 < doomba> on your pad, do you use a grid pattern or just one big pad?
2020-04-02T02:39:22 < qyx> at least I don't know of any :>
2020-04-02T02:39:40 < qyx> one big pad
2020-04-02T02:39:48 < catphish> iirc my pcb house messed up my grid and merged it into a pad
2020-04-02T02:39:53 < qyx> I tin the thing, apply flux and hotair it
2020-04-02T02:39:58 < catphish> i had to remove a lot of paste
2020-04-02T02:40:49 < doomba> the thermal relief pads with the vias are supposed to be better because 1. multiple pads connected via thin traces like a waffle means less solder under the part 2. the vias are like little escape holes so the part sits down
2020-04-02T02:41:35 < catphish> design: https://i.imgur.com/P3FGopa.png fab: https://i.imgur.com/3iR3j8j.jpg
2020-04-02T02:41:53 < catphish> result: much floating
2020-04-02T02:41:54 < doomba> oh... no
2020-04-02T02:42:01 < doomba> see your footprint does it right
2020-04-02T02:42:06 < doomba> that waffle pattern is better than one big pad
2020-04-02T02:42:12 < doomba> why didn't the stencil come out that way?
2020-04-02T02:42:20 < jly> piss
2020-04-02T02:42:53 < catphish> i don't know, i think the fab ignored my paste layer and used the mask layer to make the stencil instead
2020-04-02T02:42:54 < doomba> i can't remember where the hell i just read that
2020-04-02T02:43:16 < catphish> since then i've made separate orders with only the paste layer for the stencil
2020-04-02T02:43:22 < doomba> but i found some pdf about soldering qfns that talked about the "waffle" pattern for the pad being better
2020-04-02T02:43:47 < catphish> removing half the paste from the pad helped in the end
2020-04-02T02:44:05 < doomba> yea. i bet had your stencil matched the footprint, you wouldn't have had the issues with the part floating
2020-04-02T02:45:28 < qyx> great, 780 holes in this pcb
2020-04-02T02:45:30  * qyx ordering
2020-04-02T02:45:50 < catphish> well i'll try to build this ethernet thing and see what happens
2020-04-02T02:46:11 < qyx> it will work
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2020-04-02T02:46:14 < kakimir> how is innovation?
2020-04-02T02:46:52 < kakimir> how is life qyx?
2020-04-02T02:47:27 < qyx> corona-constrained
2020-04-02T02:47:54 < Cracki> about 100-150 people die today in germany, from the wu flu. 2800 in total from whatever. I'm going numb. they're just numbers.
2020-04-02T02:48:06 < qyx> a reverse osmosis filter for drinking water is coming tomorrow
2020-04-02T02:48:16 < doomba> good deal
2020-04-02T02:48:52 < doomba> no more gay frags
2020-04-02T02:49:50 < kakimir> I dring from a well
2020-04-02T02:50:02 < kakimir> no fluoride for me
2020-04-02T02:50:08 < Cracki> what happened to acid rain
2020-04-02T02:50:10 < qyx> 563 deaths in the UK? with only 27k of detected cases?
2020-04-02T02:50:18 < Cracki> fluoride protects your teeth but don't ingest it
2020-04-02T02:50:21 < qyx> what did boris do wrong?
2020-04-02T02:50:46 < doomba> nope. just all kinds of industrial and farm run-off in the well water from karst and fracking
2020-04-02T02:51:12 < englishman> 1k dead in USA today
2020-04-02T02:51:13 < Cracki> sink holes ftw
2020-04-02T02:51:45 < doomba> it's why where i live we use reservoirs
2020-04-02T02:51:52 < doomba> all the well water is polluted
2020-04-02T02:51:53 < Cracki> world: 7.8 billion / 71.1 years = 300k every day
2020-04-02T02:51:53 < catphish> the other complexity here is i need a 230VAC->13.6V->3.3V supply
2020-04-02T02:52:20 < Cracki> ok well, probably less because everyone is multiplying
2020-04-02T02:52:27 < doomba> i live in a big time karst region. and there's fracking operations all over this area
2020-04-02T02:52:40 < englishman> catphish, sounds like the easy part
2020-04-02T02:52:44 < catphish> qyx: we have zero testing, anyone with a serious enough case to be tested is at serious risk of death, our advice is to assume everyone is infested, making testing pointless
2020-04-02T02:52:47 < Cracki> 13.6? how about 12V? 14.4V?
2020-04-02T02:52:54 < doomba> Cracki: you ever heard of the blue holes
2020-04-02T02:52:56 < catphish> not WHO advice, but how the UK are doing it
2020-04-02T02:53:03 < Cracki> I heard of blue waffle and waffle stomping
2020-04-02T02:53:19 < englishman> just make sure the supply is iec62368-1
2020-04-02T02:53:21 < Cracki> 13.6 might be achievable if the psu has an adjustment pot
2020-04-02T02:53:22 < catphish> Cracki: maximum lifetime for floated 12v SLA
2020-04-02T02:53:27 < kakimir> I wonder if they make waffles in taste of liver
2020-04-02T02:53:34 < kakimir> liver flavoured
2020-04-02T02:54:24 < Cracki> good assumption. everyone, within an order of magnitude, is infected.
2020-04-02T02:54:38 < doomba> Cracki: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Blue_Hole_(Castalia) i live near this... used to live within eyesight of it a few years back
2020-04-02T02:55:32 < catphish> i'd hoped there was an all in one lead acid float charge module i could mount to my board
2020-04-02T02:55:33 < Cracki> that tiny hole?
2020-04-02T02:55:37 < doomba> yea
2020-04-02T02:56:14 < Cracki> cute. 14 m deep, 23 m diameter
2020-04-02T02:56:36 < doomba> water stays same temp all year
2020-04-02T02:56:45 < doomba> weirdest shit ever
2020-04-02T02:57:02 < Cracki> nothing ever freezes down there
2020-04-02T02:57:39 < Cracki> in europe, where we never hit bedrock, you can stick a temp sensor a meter down the dirt and year round it hardly moves
2020-04-02T02:58:06 < doomba> but ya that karst topology of this whole area
2020-04-02T02:58:16 < doomba> sinkholes all the damn time
2020-04-02T02:58:17 < aandrew> I ordered my zeolite today, unfortunately it won't be here until the end of the month
2020-04-02T02:58:24 < Cracki> 4D swiss cheese
2020-04-02T03:01:30 < catphish> i thought 230VAC->SLA float would be a super common part, but not sure i'm looking in the right place or searching for the right thing
2020-04-02T03:02:34 < qyx> did you check meanwells?
2020-04-02T03:02:49 < qyx> they have such power supplies
2020-04-02T03:02:55 < catphish> i did not, i will look
2020-04-02T03:03:54 < qyx> PSC-35A for example
2020-04-02T03:04:26 < qyx> or SCP-35 with a cover
2020-04-02T03:04:35 < qyx> and wiring
2020-04-02T03:05:01 < kakimir> any pics qyx?
2020-04-02T03:05:47 < qyx> http://www.meanwell.co/napajacie-zdroje/zalohovane-zdroje/s-krytom/scp-35/show/scp-35-12
2020-04-02T03:05:53 < catphish> SCP-35 is exactly what i want
2020-04-02T03:06:44 < catphish> even has battery terminals :)
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2020-04-02T03:23:59 < kakimir> they are burning bodies in the streets in Ecuador
2020-04-02T03:24:13 < kakimir> idk. In here we would just use excavators..
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2020-04-02T03:44:13 < Laurenceb> usa number 1
2020-04-02T03:44:25 < Laurenceb> megadeath when
2020-04-02T03:47:58 < kakimir> it's so close to a million now
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2020-04-02T04:29:05 < doomba> can you imagine what the history books will say in 100 years?
2020-04-02T04:29:25 < doomba> about how china released a bioweapon and didn't get nuked
2020-04-02T04:30:43 < con3> i have such mixed feelings about china rn
2020-04-02T04:35:07 < Cracki> you know where to get TP? at public buildings!
2020-04-02T04:35:17 < Cracki> they're all deserted rn, nobody is shitting
2020-04-02T04:36:38 < aandrew> yeah but it's shitty single ply megarolls
2020-04-02T04:36:45 < aandrew> 120 grit sandpaper
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2020-04-02T04:47:56 < Cracki> good point
2020-04-02T04:48:30 < Cracki> I guess I'll have to lock away my TP stash and give the room mate the sandpaper. he mocked me for having bought a pack right when this madness started and there was still some to buy
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2020-04-02T05:47:35 < aandrew> Cracki: yeah we got a few people we know who aren't quite as smug anymore
2020-04-02T05:49:16 < Cracki> I'm very smug. I have at least four pounds of noodles and pasta sauce to go with it. store shelves aren't getting cleaned out anymore either.
2020-04-02T05:49:49 < Cracki> I'm betting on TP doing the same too.
2020-04-02T05:50:28 < Cracki> https://www.statista.com/chart/15676/cmo-toilet-paper-consumption/
2020-04-02T05:51:23 < BrainDamage> here it seems that people have found a passion for flour
2020-04-02T05:51:31 < Cracki> 134 rolls sounds a bit excessive. I think a roll lasts me for weeks.
2020-04-02T05:51:34 < aandrew> oh it'll all go back to normal and I hope the stores stick to their policies of telling the panic buyers to go fuck themselves
2020-04-02T05:51:34 < BrainDamage> I guess with the free time people are attempting to bake
2020-04-02T05:51:38 < Cracki> yes flour is 1 per customer now too
2020-04-02T05:51:43 < Cracki> but eggs are plenty
2020-04-02T05:52:03 < Cracki> good for them. maybe they're trying their hand at making their own noodles
2020-04-02T05:52:13 < aandrew> yeah same here. flour all gone, noodles all gone, lots of canned stuff gone, almost all frozen food gone
2020-04-02T05:52:35 < aandrew> that was a week ago, it'll come back to normal but the funny part is that most of the smaller stores ahve no shortages at all
2020-04-02T05:52:39 < BrainDamage> here food is well stocked, just flour or sometimes eggs
2020-04-02T05:53:17 < Cracki> 134 rolls a year, that's a roll every 3 days. absolute bullshit
2020-04-02T05:54:49 < BrainDamage> remember that female toilet paper consumption is considerably higher than males
2020-04-02T05:55:02 < BrainDamage> that will skew the overall consumption
2020-04-02T05:55:14 < Cracki> so females make up for it by stuffing a roll up their hole every day?
2020-04-02T05:55:28 < Cracki> the numbers don't add up. it's all a lie
2020-04-02T05:55:46 < Cracki> numbers debunked https://thefederalist.com/2019/03/02/no-average-american-doesnt-use-three-rolls-toilet-paper-per-week/
2020-04-02T05:58:53 < Cracki> every number is a lie until proven otherwise. every proof is a lie until you can verify it yourself.
2020-04-02T06:00:19 < aandrew> who the fuck uses 134 rolls a year
2020-04-02T06:00:32 < englishman> BrainDamage also a lot of restaurants being closed, free time, boredom and fear of leaving the house = cooking
2020-04-02T06:00:49 < Cracki> they divided by zero
2020-04-02T06:00:49 < englishman> aandrew stinky americans with no bidets and a mcdonalds and bud light diet
2020-04-02T06:01:11 < Cracki> the weight number might have been right, but they assumed a roll to weigh one third of what it really weighs
2020-04-02T06:01:16 < Cracki> that inflates the numbers drastically
2020-04-02T06:01:25 < Cracki> same article links to this too: https://www.washingtonexaminer.com/opinion/dear-nbc-stop-repeating-that-stupid-lie-about-how-many-straws-americans-use
2020-04-02T06:01:52 < Cracki> muricans and their funky units "46400 school buses"
2020-04-02T06:02:25 < BrainDamage> it boils to consequences of a false notion, we're continously bombarded by more or less garbage information, most of it irrelevant
2020-04-02T06:02:59 < Cracki> boil them in excrement
2020-04-02T06:03:15 < BrainDamage> take for example a moon landding denialist, it has ~0 practical impact on the life
2020-04-02T06:03:31 < BrainDamage> you can be an highly functional society member
2020-04-02T06:03:46 < Cracki> like cia niggers glow in the dark?
2020-04-02T06:04:23 < BrainDamage> no idea what that means
2020-04-02T06:04:35 < Cracki> the insane guy who wrote templeos
2020-04-02T06:04:37 < englishman> here the leader of the health authority suggested to people to take up cooking specifically baking
2020-04-02T06:04:52 < Cracki> he always talked about cia niggers and how they glow in the dark and how you should run them over
2020-04-02T06:07:00 < Ultrasauce> rip terry
2020-04-02T06:10:35 < Cracki> I wonder how TP consumption correlates to consistency poop. some of those nations must be eating like rabbits to need so little tp
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2020-04-02T06:26:41 < upgrdman__> i never would have thought the hot topic for white people to talk about would be "toilet paper"
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2020-04-02T06:30:30 < Cracki> does this soap dispenser work for you? https://www.mic.com/articles/124899/the-reason-this-racist-soap-dispenser-doesn-t-work-on-black-skin
2020-04-02T06:31:21 < Cracki> white people expect civilization. TP is the pinnacle of civilization. no more shitting in your hand
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2020-04-02T10:35:04 < jly> hello all steffans
2020-04-02T10:44:40 < zyp> no
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2020-04-02T10:46:43 < jly> hi zyp 
2020-04-02T10:48:13 < zyp> sup?
2020-04-02T10:48:47 < jly> not much just playing some altium 
2020-04-02T10:48:57 < zyp> nice, that's my favorite game
2020-04-02T10:49:24 < Steffanx> Did you play the level where you are not allowed to cross any other wire?
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2020-04-02T11:07:44 < qyx> zyp: btw did you manage to get back to .no?
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2020-04-02T11:31:46 < Steffanx> I wonder what the better option would be .jp or .no.
2020-04-02T11:33:41 < mawk> .jp
2020-04-02T11:33:45 < mawk> hide on an isla,d
2020-04-02T11:33:47 < mawk> insland
2020-04-02T11:33:49 < mawk> island
2020-04-02T11:33:51 < mawk> mog
2020-04-02T11:34:03 < mawk> my connection is so slow the letters arrive mixed up, how is that even possible
2020-04-02T11:34:27 < mawk> NL is a third world country Steffanx give me back my french fiber optics internet
2020-04-02T11:34:37 < mawk> my 1Gbps for 30€/month
2020-04-02T11:34:53 < Steffanx> No, you decided to move to a old city :P
2020-04-02T11:34:56 < Steffanx> my internet is fine here
2020-04-02T11:35:00 < Steffanx> *an
2020-04-02T11:35:35 < mawk> :(
2020-04-02T11:35:40 < mawk> I could get 1Gbps here too
2020-04-02T11:35:43 < mawk> but not for the same price
2020-04-02T11:35:56 < Steffanx> but yeah, internet is ne ver that cheap in dutchland
2020-04-02T11:39:02 < Steffanx> Im not sure why i would need 1Gbps atm anyway. 1/4th of that is fine here.
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2020-04-02T11:47:30 < jadew> I went out today... shit is going to hit the fan really hard in here
2020-04-02T11:47:39 < jadew> it was fucking crowded
2020-04-02T11:47:50 < jadew> I didn't even get out of my car, I just came back home
2020-04-02T11:48:56 < srk> parks are crowded here as well. it's nearly annoying as peasants stopped going to malls and go to nature instead
2020-04-02T11:48:59 < jadew> people were sitting on benches, enjoying the sun, sharing stories
2020-04-02T11:49:23 < jadew> srk, they closed the parks, so now they're everywhere else
2020-04-02T11:49:26 < jadew> it's fucking stupid
2020-04-02T11:49:28 < srk> lol
2020-04-02T11:50:09 < boddax> Thats why numbers getting big
2020-04-02T11:50:32 < jadew> yeah
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2020-04-02T11:51:02 < jadew> by the time they get properly afraid of this is going to be too late
2020-04-02T11:51:41 < jadew> it felt more crowded than usual...
2020-04-02T11:52:49 < boddax> Sling stone the walkers from your terrace
2020-04-02T11:54:48 < boddax> Also here there social networks comunications there no police check then all in the road suddendly when massive check all the people vanished
2020-04-02T11:56:18 < boddax> There sharing info on some channel when go outside or not lol
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2020-04-02T12:01:03 < jadew> boddax, that's silly...
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2020-04-02T12:08:32 < jadew> in the news here: "Man breaks his leg, after jumping out the window, while trying to escape quarantine."
2020-04-02T12:10:52 < Steffanx> Some can't deal with the lock up as good as you mr jadew ;)
2020-04-02T12:12:44 < jadew> seems most people have a problem with that, I don't get it
2020-04-02T12:12:49 < jadew> there's so much you can do at home
2020-04-02T12:14:06 < Steffanx> The answer is easy: Not all people are alike. 
2020-04-02T12:15:01 < qyx> you can draw PCBs all the time
2020-04-02T12:15:13 < qyx> if you are alone, the better
2020-04-02T12:15:20 < qyx> such concentration
2020-04-02T12:15:25 < jadew> and much more
2020-04-02T12:16:07 < Steffanx> Yeah, everyone wants to draw PCBs. Weird.
2020-04-02T12:16:24 < Steffanx> They all should do some PCIE board.
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2020-04-02T12:32:47 < zyp> hmm, what's the cheapest place to do flex pcbs?
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2020-04-02T12:35:59 < boddax> Van Gogh pcb's
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2020-04-02T12:42:11 < PaulFertser> Yay, my tea is here. The lockdown is apparently not too strict. I didn't meet or even saw any cops on the way.
2020-04-02T12:42:41 < Steffanx>  \o/
2020-04-02T12:43:05 < Steffanx> Why was it at the mail office btw? Dont they deliver to the door in russialand?
2020-04-02T12:43:11 < Steffanx> or is that also not happening during the lock down?
2020-04-02T12:43:21 < PaulFertser> Not too many people on the streets but still considerably more than I expected.
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2020-04-02T12:44:06 < PaulFertser> Steffanx: only letters are delivered to the door by default. Everything bigger is usually waiting at the office. But one can order a delivery from them for an additional fee.
2020-04-02T12:44:22 < Steffanx> aha
2020-04-02T12:45:40 < PaulFertser> Courier services usually deliver to the door but it's often less convenient because you might need to spend a full working day waiting at home for them.
2020-04-02T12:51:22 < Steffanx> karlp: Zoom was good you said? https://blog.zoom.us/wordpress/2020/04/01/a-message-to-our-users/ (probably a bit of a "tldr;"  story though)
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2020-04-02T12:52:44 < tcth> hi folks
2020-04-02T12:52:46 < tcth> what´s up?
2020-04-02T12:53:50 < Steffanx> Tha sky, mate.
2020-04-02T12:55:51 < Steffanx> There mr tcth?
2020-04-02T12:56:17 < tcth> not much
2020-04-02T12:56:23 < tcth> also sky tho
2020-04-02T12:57:29 < tcth> I wonder how tom cruise is feeling
2020-04-02T12:57:59 < Steffanx> I'd ask James. He had the sky fall.
2020-04-02T12:58:44 < tcth> I just woke up - can´t process that yet. But I´m afraid that this is just a terrible sky-fall reference
2020-04-02T12:59:14 < Steffanx> James Bond.. skyfall?
2020-04-02T12:59:28 < tcth> aaah, then no idea.
2020-04-02T12:59:32 < tcth> I don´t do james bond
2020-04-02T12:59:46 < Steffanx> Wait till the next james bond is female.
2020-04-02T12:59:51 < tcth> nah
2020-04-02T12:59:54 < tcth> it´s really not my style
2020-04-02T13:00:31 < Steffanx> Sometimes you have to do things that are out of your comfort zone tcth
2020-04-02T13:00:56 < tcth> :D
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2020-04-02T13:04:40 < tcth> doing that right now
2020-04-02T13:04:42 < tcth> GLSL shaders...
2020-04-02T13:04:59 < srk> <3
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2020-04-02T13:06:15 < tcth> time to check fiverr.com for shader pakistanis
2020-04-02T13:07:25 < tcth> srk you´re into shading?
2020-04-02T13:08:50 < srk> yeah
2020-04-02T13:09:10 < srk> tcth: trying to opengl 2d/3d viewer http://48.io/~rmarko/2020-03-17-143726_1920x1080_scrot.png
2020-04-02T13:09:45 < srk> failing at rendering csg.. http://48.io/~rmarko/2020-03-18-175811_1920x1058_scrot.png
2020-04-02T13:10:22 < tcth> srk, I´m very much standing at the beginning of this. I only ever once briefly looked into how this stuff works like a decade ago. now back to it.
2020-04-02T13:10:30 < srk> it's mad
2020-04-02T13:10:34 < srk> brainfucky :D
2020-04-02T13:11:12 < srk> I'm not using glsl directly but DSLs to generate it, first I was playing with andromeda, than lambdacube, now with GPipe
2020-04-02T13:12:20 < srk> I didn't want to ship shader files in some dir along with app when I can have them built-in 
2020-04-02T13:13:21 < srk> shadertoy is fun tho
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2020-04-02T13:14:28 < tcth> what are you working on?
2020-04-02T13:15:16 < srk> vis like you do basically, plots and robots 
2020-04-02T13:16:46 < srk> want something that can run on ARM SBCs in pure opengl without using bloated ui toolkits
2020-04-02T13:16:53 < tcth> blogging time I guess
2020-04-02T13:17:10 < srk> not yet! :D
2020-04-02T13:18:09 < tcth> same here xD
2020-04-02T13:18:45 -!- jsoft [~jsoft@unaffiliated/jsoft] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds]
2020-04-02T13:19:15 < tcth> I´m playing with the thought of reading a book
2020-04-02T13:19:54 < srk> I'm reading https://www.cs.princeton.edu/~bwk/memoir.html
2020-04-02T13:20:08 < srk> iz pretty good
2020-04-02T13:20:35 < tcth> I expected something related to OpenGL(SL)
2020-04-02T13:20:45 < srk> have some more hardcore in queue but my head is full of linear algebra now
2020-04-02T13:21:08 < tcth> srk, I didn´t dive into the math parts yet. Currently just exploring the system(s)
2020-04-02T13:21:40 < srk> it's linear algebra all the way down :D
2020-04-02T13:23:10 < tcth> well linear algebra is kind of okay IMHO
2020-04-02T13:23:35 < tcth> usually easy to follow & break down
2020-04-02T13:23:58 < srk> https://learnopengl.com/
2020-04-02T13:24:02 < srk> this one is good
2020-04-02T13:26:36 < tcth> I already came across that one - seemed decent indeed :)
2020-04-02T13:28:24 < tcth> at least I can put my P5000 to use then
2020-04-02T13:30:16 < srk> heh, I can hardly find workloads or even games to load my gtx 1070 :D
2020-04-02T13:30:28 < srk> cpu dies first usually, except for CUDA & blender
2020-04-02T13:34:29 < tcth> then you´re not plotting enough graphs :p
2020-04-02T13:34:58 < srk> hmm there was this 3d fractal explorer but I can't remeber the name
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2020-04-02T14:01:30 < dongs> fuck
2020-04-02T14:01:37 < dongs> jap SFP+ ONU doesnt work
2020-04-02T14:01:49 < dongs> with mikrodik SFP+ switch
2020-04-02T14:06:51 < karlp> did you forget to pay extra for the -jp suffix version?
2020-04-02T14:09:24 < dongs> not sure what the problem is
2020-04-02T14:09:41 < dongs> well, first problem is auto-negotiation ddidnt work so i forced it to 1G and link establieshes but it does nothign else after
2020-04-02T14:09:45 < dongs> no rx counts
2020-04-02T14:12:03 < karlp> catphish: I've got hanrun 9511whatsit for kicad too, but it got bogged down in kicad politics so it's unmerged: https://github.com/KiCad/kicad-symbols/pull/1146 and the linked footprint
2020-04-02T14:12:37 < karlp> (but that hanrun part is _not_ the current cheap/best, it's not even on hanrun's site anymore, it' sjust one commonly used in maker stuff and readily available)
2020-04-02T14:12:39 < catphish> karlp: cool, thanks
2020-04-02T14:15:49 < dongs> lmao kalrp
2020-04-02T14:15:51 < Steffanx> lolwut karlp. 
2020-04-02T14:15:53 < dongs> nice PR
2020-04-02T14:15:58 < Steffanx> The time span of that PR is like 1.5 YEARS
2020-04-02T14:16:02 < dongs> > I'm not currently planning on spending any more time on these.
2020-04-02T14:16:02 < Steffanx> DAMN
2020-04-02T14:16:04 < dongs> fucking opensores
2020-04-02T14:16:06 < dongs> right there
2020-04-02T14:16:24 < dongs> meanwhile: kikecad still deosn't have a magjack
2020-04-02T14:18:27 < Steffanx> karlp does get credits for only giving up on it after a year.
2020-04-02T14:20:25 < dongs> Regarding the dcm file problem: we can not accept the stuff as it is now. The devs are aware of it and there will be some fix in the future. (Will depend on how busy they are with other stuff) For now we need to accept that we need to manually change some files in a text editor until a real fix exists. (with we i mean contributors running nightly builds)
2020-04-02T14:20:29 < karlp> nice, "The Amazon CloudFront distribution is configured to block access from your country."
2020-04-02T14:20:30 < dongs> lmao
2020-04-02T14:20:31 < dongs> fire up VIM
2020-04-02T14:20:42 < dongs> to edit some shit
2020-04-02T14:21:53 < dongs> zyp: you have CRS326-24G-2S+RM ?
2020-04-02T14:23:39 < zyp> am planning to, but haven't bought it yet
2020-04-02T14:23:49 < dongs> whajt did you haev with SFP+ in it?
2020-04-02T14:23:59 < dongs> this jap shit is fucking failing but im sure swapping hardwaer isnt going to solve it
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2020-04-02T14:24:22 < zyp> the smaller version of the shit you bought way back
2020-04-02T14:24:29 < dongs> so the CRS210-8G-2S+IN ?
2020-04-02T14:24:43 < dongs> (thats my shit, i guess there's a single sfp port version as well without 10gb
2020-04-02T14:24:51 < zyp> yeah
2020-04-02T14:25:05 < dongs> CRS112-8P-4S-IN ?
2020-04-02T14:25:06 < dongs> hmm
2020-04-02T14:25:19 < zyp> https://bin.jvnv.net/file/GtfZh.jpg
2020-04-02T14:25:24 < zyp> no, the CRS210
2020-04-02T14:25:31 < dongs> oh you have the crs
2020-04-02T14:25:34 < dongs> so same shit as mine
2020-04-02T14:25:52 < karlp> Steffanx: sounds like a pretty good post from them? what's the problem?
2020-04-02T14:25:54 < zyp> I thought you got the larger
2020-04-02T14:26:13 < dongs> i have 24 port thing at my house acutall wait waht
2020-04-02T14:26:33 < dongs> o shit i do have the new one too
2020-04-02T14:27:06 < Steffanx> Mainly that it wasnt all that perfect before karlp. But they hardly mention that in the post.
2020-04-02T14:27:15 < Steffanx> There were some major issues in the windows and mac version
2020-04-02T14:27:15 < zyp> still planning to get the CRS328 some time
2020-04-02T14:27:26 < dongs> ah nope my shit at home is CSS
2020-04-02T14:27:27 < dongs> not CRS
2020-04-02T14:27:35 < dongs> CSS is the dumb switch version 
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2020-04-02T14:27:42 < Steffanx> Something with windows password getting stolen (??) and some unauthorized access to the microphone on mac.
2020-04-02T14:27:46 < zyp> don't think it matters much, don't they all suck at routing anyway?
2020-04-02T14:28:01 < dongs> well, this one sucks at SFP+ too apparently
2020-04-02T14:28:17 < dongs> https://mikrotik.com/product/CSS326-24G-2SplusRM this is waht i got
2020-04-02T14:28:24 < dongs> and it was liek $99
2020-04-02T14:28:29 < dongs> the CRS version of same is $150 or so
2020-04-02T14:28:34 < zyp> ah
2020-04-02T14:29:03 < zyp> https://mikrotik.com/product/crs328_24p_4s_rm <- this is the one I'm planning to buy
2020-04-02T14:29:27 < dongs> oh, 4 SFP
2020-04-02T14:29:29 < dongs> same thing existrs with 2
2020-04-02T14:29:30 < zyp> yeah
2020-04-02T14:29:35 < zyp> oh
2020-04-02T14:29:37 < karlp> zyp: maybe pcbway? the have both flex and rigid flex.
2020-04-02T14:29:51 < zyp> karlp, that's what I found on google
2020-04-02T14:29:53 < Steffanx> karlp: but yeah, it might have been good on lunix :P
2020-04-02T14:30:01 < dongs> https://www.eurodk.com/en/products/crs/cloud-router-switch-326-24g-2srm this is the 2SFP version
2020-04-02T14:30:05 < dongs> anyway. fuck
2020-04-02T14:30:06 < zyp> karlp, doesn't matter, realized I'm never gonna get around to doing it anyway
2020-04-02T14:30:17 < zyp> dongs, that's not poe
2020-04-02T14:30:17 < dongs> i dont really wanna take the 24port from house to office jsut to find out sfp doesnt work
2020-04-02T14:30:20 < dongs> correct
2020-04-02T14:30:27 < srk> flash the transciever
2020-04-02T14:30:28 < zyp> I want the PoE one
2020-04-02T14:30:34 < dongs> > flash lol wat
2020-04-02T14:30:39 < zyp> that's the main reason
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2020-04-02T14:31:08 < zyp> but for now the little d-link shit works well enough, so I haven't bothered
2020-04-02T14:31:35 < zyp> still need to run fiber through the empty conduit I put in for it too
2020-04-02T14:31:37 < dongs> anyway cant do anything , i am just hoping its some dumb shit NTT fucked up and they will fix it tomrorow
2020-04-02T14:31:44 < srk> lol https://sfptotal.io/
2020-04-02T14:31:58 < dongs> apparently to switch from normal ONU to this SFP they had to fuck aroudn with fiber on teh poles (why? )))
2020-04-02T14:31:59 < karlp> Steffanx: yeah, I saw a pretty bad fuckup in the mac client, like, "even after uninstall, remote people can turn on webcam"
2020-04-02T14:32:09 < dongs> and when i said "if this shit doesnt work, can you put it back"
2020-04-02T14:32:11 < karlp> but there's stilla  poitn of, "it fuckign works!"
2020-04-02T14:32:15 < dongs> there was lots of teeth sucking
2020-04-02T14:32:20 < karlp> and they at least seem to be caring, unlike MS
2020-04-02T14:32:29 < Steffanx> Yeah, that for sure
2020-04-02T14:32:51 < dongs> srk: is that a fucking arduino to read the i2c eeprom on every SFP
2020-04-02T14:32:56 < dongs> sold for $350
2020-04-02T14:32:56 < srk> proly
2020-04-02T14:33:04 < srk> sfp cages must be expensive
2020-04-02T14:33:10 < srk> you can do the same with most routers
2020-04-02T14:33:12 < srk> or switches
2020-04-02T14:33:29 < dongs> jew-connect on that board
2020-04-02T14:33:56 < karlp> zyp: I kinda _want_ to do a rigid flex design, I think it would be ultimately cheaper, but I'm not entirely convinced of my own 3d mech skills to make it work :)
2020-04-02T14:34:02 < srk> plus version is the best
2020-04-02T14:34:15 < srk> better call it pro
2020-04-02T14:34:50 < srk> fancy site can't even menu without javascript, aw
2020-04-02T14:34:51 < karlp> is sfptotal.io what ds2 ... or invzim ? were working on secretly? 
2020-04-02T14:35:17 < srk> tell me, can't browse the site xD
2020-04-02T14:37:48 < Steffanx> menu works fine here with js disabled
2020-04-02T14:38:41 < zyp> karlp, you should do it so you can tell us how it went :)
2020-04-02T14:40:22 < karlp> hehe :)
2020-04-02T14:40:24 < karlp> hardly.
2020-04-02T14:40:53 < karlp> I've got enough "a bit bigger than me" hw projects cooking as it is, and we're on cut hours now so...
2020-04-02T14:41:06 < karlp> more hours for irc trash talking instead.
2020-04-02T14:42:46 < jadew> indians have identified the problem: https://www.liveleak.com/view?t=kWLZs_1585770133
2020-04-02T14:45:17 < karlp> you can thank modi for that sort of shit
2020-04-02T14:48:58 < jadew> did he said something that made people fear medics?
2020-04-02T14:49:08 < jadew> *say
2020-04-02T14:51:46 < karlp> no, he's just been stiring up way more religious divisions.
2020-04-02T14:51:56 < karlp> he wants india to be hindu only
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2020-04-02T15:47:06 < doomba> ttps://arxiv.org/abs/2003.12444 
2020-04-02T15:47:15 < doomba> https://arxiv.org/abs/2003.12444 
2020-04-02T15:47:56 < doomba> inb4 there are crowds at Circle K and Speedway huffing the gas pumps
2020-04-02T15:53:47  * karlp wants a temp controlled box for a while.  I wonder what the easiest shit to knock up is.
2020-04-02T15:54:09 < jadew> I want one too
2020-04-02T15:54:31 < karlp> I think have an old fridge controller, that I can connect a light bulb too.
2020-04-02T15:54:47 < karlp> starts getting spaghetti pretty quick though.
2020-04-02T15:55:06 < jadew> you want it to be able to go both hot and cold?
2020-04-02T15:55:26 < karlp> well, room temperature and heat up would probably be good enough for most purposes.
2020-04-02T15:55:41 < karlp> need to characterise and validate some temp sensors a bit better.
2020-04-02T15:56:18 < karlp> I've accounted for self heating, and used the calibration, but we're still getting claims that the stm32 temp sensor can't be right, and ... well, *shrugs*
2020-04-02T15:57:49 < jadew> an oven is not accurate enough?
2020-04-02T15:58:37 < karlp> probably, but super tedious to use, if you want to get remotely stable points in the low end.
2020-04-02T15:58:48 < karlp> also, ovens tend to be in kitchens that people like to use
2020-04-02T16:02:23 < Thorn> a hex file of a project compiled with IAR is 34KB. same project compiled with gcc is 64KB. wat
2020-04-02T16:05:30 < karlp> sometimes you win, sometimes you lose,
2020-04-02T16:05:37 < karlp> but also, irrelevant without more details
2020-04-02T16:05:42 < karlp> you can find cases the other way as well.
2020-04-02T16:05:52 < specing> Thorn: -Os
2020-04-02T16:06:09 < Thorn> specing: -2KB or less
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2020-04-02T16:06:32 < karlp> nanospecs and shit too
2020-04-02T16:06:32 < specing> Thorn:-ffunction-sections
2020-04-02T16:06:47 < specing> -fdata-sections"
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2020-04-02T16:06:55 < dongs> welcome to commercial compilers
2020-04-02T16:06:55 < dongs> ARMCC is same
2020-04-02T16:06:55 < Thorn> I have that, and -gc-sections too
2020-04-02T16:06:58 < specing> That's the options that make my Ada code small
2020-04-02T16:07:14 < specing> Thorn: sweet, I'll add gc-sectiosn
2020-04-02T16:07:32 < karlp> there's no point having function/data sections if you're not using gc sections specing, 
2020-04-02T16:07:39 < karlp> how was this working for you before?
2020-04-02T16:08:01 < emeryth> karlp: take a 3d printer heated bed, put it in a box, done
2020-04-02T16:08:07 < specing> arm-eabi-gcc: error: unrecognized debug output level 'c-sections'
2020-04-02T16:08:17 < specing> Thorn: is it really -gc-sections?
2020-04-02T16:08:34 < specing> karlp: well, it was...
2020-04-02T16:09:11 < Thorn> it's a linker option: -Wl,--gc-sections,
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2020-04-02T16:10:09 < specing> Ahh
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2020-04-02T16:10:27 < specing> karlp: Thorn I already had -Wl,--gc-sections, but in another part of the GPR file
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2020-04-02T16:15:14 < karlp> emeryth: yes, that sort of thing. if you have one of them lying around...
2020-04-02T16:16:15 < karlp> huh, sierra wireless module watns 3.7V supply.
2020-04-02T16:16:21 < englishman> karlp: I use a space heater set to low, a big portable drink cooler, and a smaller box inside, then a lot of time to stabilize
2020-04-02T16:16:39 < karlp> that's because it's been designed for running off a lipo right?
2020-04-02T16:17:03 < karlp> englishman: yeah, I was thinking of a cooler box and a lot of time between temp steps
2020-04-02T16:18:20 < karlp> hrm, I knew different bands had different power requirements, but not so mcuh: b4: typical 655mA, b13: typical 500mA.
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2020-04-02T16:19:24 < karlp> hsdpa is like almost double between differnt bands
2020-04-02T16:25:26 < kakimir> why hasn't LTE break through in iot yet?
2020-04-02T16:26:04 < kakimir> stuff is still made with even just EDGE
2020-04-02T16:26:16 < kakimir> idk about new designs but
2020-04-02T16:26:35 < kakimir> bbl>
2020-04-02T16:28:08 < karlp> because it's wayyyy to expensive
2020-04-02T16:30:25 < zyp> compared to 2G shit?
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2020-04-02T16:47:52 < karlp> still looks like easily double
2020-04-02T16:51:55 < karlp> hrm, can esp8266 be an sdio slave device?
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2020-04-02T16:54:35 < karlp> seems it can, esp8089 is "same"
2020-04-02T16:59:03 < karlp> heh, 9 pads on this sierra wireless thing are "mandatatory test pads" that you must break out if you want to use their RMA or debug service
2020-04-02T17:16:52 < englishman> 2g sunset is dec 31 here
2020-04-02T17:17:04 < englishman> RIP all those 2015 cars sold with 2g service
2020-04-02T17:17:59 < Steffanx> Here its 3G that gets disabled
2020-04-02T17:19:32 < Guest5439> Steffanx: so all the phones not supporting volte have to be thrown out ?
2020-04-02T17:19:38 -!- Guest5439 is now known as Lux
2020-04-02T17:19:59 < Lux> seems kinda unlikely to me
2020-04-02T17:20:08 -!- Lux is now known as Guest81202
2020-04-02T17:21:18 < Steffanx> To make phone calls you have 2G.
2020-04-02T17:22:09 < zyp> yeah
2020-04-02T17:22:43 < zyp> I'm not sure what the current status here is, but they were planning to remove 3G first, then 2G
2020-04-02T17:22:56 < karlp> that's the general plan in most of .eu and .au, 
2020-04-02T17:23:10 < englishman> weird
2020-04-02T17:23:11 < karlp> 2g fallsback from 4g better (read, cheaper, less separate equipment) than 3g.
2020-04-02T17:23:33 < karlp> I guess the us is the other way because of the whole, fuck gsm, lets do our own thing?
2020-04-02T17:24:28 < zyp> seems like the goal is to have 3G closed down by end of this year
2020-04-02T17:26:04 < karlp> fucking already in sw hell with sierra wireless
2020-04-02T17:26:26 < karlp> build environment tool is provided as a deb, but it's a bunch of python.  can't pip install it, thought I'd just get the source.
2020-04-02T17:26:33 < karlp> I can login and browse the gitweb
2020-04-02T17:26:35 < karlp> but can't clone it.
2020-04-02T17:27:36 < Guest81202> isn't 2G compromised as for the encryption used ?
2020-04-02T17:27:50 -!- Guest81202 is now known as Luggi09
2020-04-02T17:27:55 < karlp> that's somethign the people that care about can block in their local devices though
2020-04-02T17:28:07 < karlp> and if you think 3g is better, I think yhou're optimistic :)
2020-04-02T17:28:21  * karlp re-reads their gerrit instructions
2020-04-02T17:28:22 < Steffanx> lol Guest26945 has a hard time sticking to his nick.
2020-04-02T17:28:41 < Luggi09> yeah somehow my auto login didn't work
2020-04-02T17:28:46 < Luggi09> so
2020-04-02T17:28:56 < Luggi09> hard times
2020-04-02T17:28:59 < Steffanx> not everyone has that luxury.
2020-04-02T17:29:34 < Luggi09> at least for 2g there was a pretty elaborate talk on how they used rainbow tables like 10 years ago to passively decrypt
2020-04-02T17:29:43 < Luggi09> i can imagine it's even easier these days
2020-04-02T17:31:01 < Ultrasauce> iirc part of the cypher suite was outright broken
2020-04-02T17:33:21 < Luggi09> https://media.ccc.de/v/27c3-4208-en-wideband_gsm_sniffing
2020-04-02T17:33:24 < Luggi09> that was 2010
2020-04-02T17:33:57 < Luggi09> but iirc it wasn't for all cyphers used, so there might still be some security
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2020-04-02T17:36:37 < karlp> well, the docs look good, but holy shit this first setup experience with sierra wireless is trash
2020-04-02T17:38:30 < karlp> step 2 here, "set up a remote..." is completely missing
2020-04-02T17:38:42 < karlp> so I just get errors abotu "no remote defined https://docs.legato.io/latest/confLeaf.html
2020-04-02T17:38:43 < karlp> yay
2020-04-02T17:45:07 < jadew> https://www.bbc.com/news/world-asia-india-52086274
2020-04-02T17:46:58 < jadew> they're fleeing the capital by foot, in hundreds of km journeys
2020-04-02T17:47:21 < jadew> by the time they get home, the outbreak is over and they have to go back
2020-04-02T17:56:17 < doomba> no
2020-04-02T17:57:16 < doomba> they'll reach their villages, kill their parents with coronavirus, and then when they return to the cities, employers will be able to scoop them up at even lower wages - knowing that the migrants no longer have families to support.
2020-04-02T17:57:51 < doomba> as if india's caste system wasn't already extreme
2020-04-02T17:58:04 < doomba> all other countries are quickly catching up
2020-04-02T18:00:59 < Steffanx> poor doomba
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2020-04-02T18:34:56 < englishman> lol just saw that kikad issue
2020-04-02T18:35:28 < englishman> is it that difficult and tedious to make kikad symbols that you have to use someone else's?
2020-04-02T18:36:26 < doomba> i cheat as much as possible by checking snapeda for symbols/footprints
2020-04-02T18:36:54 < antto> i make my own
2020-04-02T18:37:00 < antto> but i steal 3D models
2020-04-02T18:49:45 < jadew> https://www.imperial.ac.uk/media/imperial-college/medicine/sph/ide/gida-fellowships/Imperial-College-COVID19-Europe-estimates-and-NPI-impact-30-03-2020.pdf
2020-04-02T18:50:12 < jadew> it's estimated that between 1.88% and 11.43% of the EU population is infected
2020-04-02T18:50:35 < bitmask> https://i.imgur.com/WOiRW6W.png
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2020-04-02T18:51:55 < jadew> Cracki, what did we say the required percentage was, so it turns into 30% simultaneously infected?
2020-04-02T18:52:24 < jadew> IIRC it falls within that range
2020-04-02T18:54:57 < Cracki> number of infected is starting to be meaningless
2020-04-02T18:55:13 < jadew> well, the real number of infected is not meaningless
2020-04-02T18:55:19 < Cracki> number of deaths, and number of resurrections, is interesting
2020-04-02T18:55:22 < jadew> because it has a direct relation to the number of deaths
2020-04-02T19:01:12 < Ultrasauce> bitmask whats your plating solution?
2020-04-02T19:02:39 < doomba> hydroxyclorochloriquinibiniazithrodiazepine-19
2020-04-02T19:02:42 < Ultrasauce> calcium hypophospite + sulphuric acid?
2020-04-02T19:04:09 < bitmask> copper sulfate, sulfuric acid with some polyethylene glycol (miralax) and brightener and a couple drops of hydrochloric acid
2020-04-02T19:07:04 < Ultrasauce> interesting
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2020-04-02T19:27:22 < jadew> stupid website... goes into mobile mode when on 1920px wide display...
2020-04-02T19:30:04 < Laurenceb> >webshite in current year
2020-04-02T19:30:14 < Laurenceb> >not a javascript ridden abomination
2020-04-02T19:31:02 < Laurenceb> in the future we will have javascript abomination rendered in the google cloud on xeon servers then we will browse via html5 video stream
2020-04-02T19:32:33 < qyx> antto: how do you do 3d models
2020-04-02T19:32:34 < BrainDamage> "future"
2020-04-02T19:32:36 < qyx> me wanna
2020-04-02T19:32:55 < BrainDamage> you know that there's already games that render on cloud and get streamed locally?
2020-04-02T19:35:20 < englishman> Laurenceb: https://pxlnv.com/blog/bullshit-web/
2020-04-02T19:35:25 < tcth> srk, you around?
2020-04-02T19:35:32 < englishman> BrainDamage: you mean like the failed google stadia
2020-04-02T19:35:48 < englishman> those silicon valley dweebs assumed the average gamer has stable gigabutt internet
2020-04-02T19:36:03 < srk> tcth: a bit
2020-04-02T19:36:16 < tcth> srk, have you done multisampling/anti-aliasing with OpenGL yet?
2020-04-02T19:36:28 < srk> sure
2020-04-02T19:36:33 < srk> enable Samples in window hint
2020-04-02T19:36:44 < srk> to get opengls MSAA
2020-04-02T19:36:49 < tcth> I assume you use glfw? I am using SDL2 as I need a full-blown application at the end 
2020-04-02T19:37:05 < tcth> but I am having troubles understanding what is OpenGL and what is SDL2 in this case
2020-04-02T19:37:08 < srk> yeah, glfw, sdl should be able to do the same 
2020-04-02T19:37:25 < srk> tbh I don't understand the point of SDL2
2020-04-02T19:37:25 < tcth> https://wiki.libsdl.org/SDL_HINT_RENDER_SCALE_QUALITY
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2020-04-02T19:37:36 < srk> except for unfirom handling of sound/input
2020-04-02T19:37:41 < srk> *uniform
2020-04-02T19:37:46 < srk> cause gl is already cross platform
2020-04-02T19:38:01 < tcth> yeah all I need is the event handling system & audio crappery
2020-04-02T19:38:03 < Laurenceb> englishman: based
2020-04-02T19:38:04 < tcth> so SDL2 it is :)
2020-04-02T19:38:12 < Laurenceb> >CNN takes over 30s to load
2020-04-02T19:38:13 < Laurenceb> the state
2020-04-02T19:38:23 < jadew> BrainDamage, what's the news over there? has Italy peaked?
2020-04-02T19:38:32 < zyp> srk, gl is cross platform, getting a gl context is not
2020-04-02T19:38:42 < tcth> srk, can you explain to me why the window would need to have a multisample window hint? shouldn´t the multisampling be completely transparent to the window and only affect OpenGL?
2020-04-02T19:38:49 < tcth> zyp, +1
2020-04-02T19:39:09 < BrainDamage> jadew: no, but we're closed to it
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2020-04-02T19:39:38 < srk> zyp: true
2020-04-02T19:39:39 < BrainDamage> infection rate is still positive, but it's like + few %/day
2020-04-02T19:40:05 < jadew> I see, that's good
2020-04-02T19:40:06 < srk> tcth: I don't know the details, I just remember to set Samples to get AA :)
2020-04-02T19:40:17 < tcth> alright
2020-04-02T19:40:46 < jadew> the nr. of deaths seem to constant/falling, which makes you unique in the EU
2020-04-02T19:40:49 < Laurenceb> >Approximately one hundred scripts, totalling several megabytes 
2020-04-02T19:40:49 < tcth> zyp, do you have any idea about this? Why would the window need to know about the anti-aliasing/multi-sampling? I would have assumed that the window just represents the bare pixel buffer at the end of the GPU pipeline
2020-04-02T19:40:52 < Laurenceb> keeek oh wow
2020-04-02T19:41:01 < Laurenceb> thats an OS level codebase
2020-04-02T19:41:06 < jadew> *to be
2020-04-02T19:41:29 < srk> you can also AA using shaders but that's quite complex
2020-04-02T19:42:00 < srk> guess pipelines gets the information from window somehow and renders samples times
2020-04-02T19:47:03 < zyp> tcth, no idea
2020-04-02T19:47:36 < zyp> loose guess: window and context is related?
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2020-04-02T20:12:34 < jadew> what do you guys use instead of octave?
2020-04-02T20:12:44 < jadew> I hate the matlab language
2020-04-02T20:13:17 < Ultrasauce> math is dumb don't use it
2020-04-02T20:13:24 < jadew> lol
2020-04-02T20:14:04 < jadew> I've used octave a lot, but man... it gets on my nerves sometimes
2020-04-02T20:14:32 < jadew> for example 0:3, will give you [0 1 2 3]
2020-04-02T20:14:40 < jadew> 0:-3 will give you []
2020-04-02T20:14:45 < jadew> because reasons
2020-04-02T20:15:11 < jadew> also, there's no ternary operator
2020-04-02T20:15:13 < zyp> well, duh
2020-04-02T20:15:29 < BrainDamage> python + numpy & scipy
2020-04-02T20:15:35 < BrainDamage> not even joking
2020-04-02T20:15:39 < zyp> that's like for(i = 0; i < -3; i++) …
2020-04-02T20:15:47 < jadew> BrainDamage, I'll check them out
2020-04-02T20:15:56 < jadew> zyp, but that's not a for is it, it's a range
2020-04-02T20:16:10 < zyp> same same
2020-04-02T20:16:13 < jadew> it's supposed to be a math type of language not a macro shit
2020-04-02T20:16:43 < zyp> range(-3) in python is also gonna give you []
2020-04-02T20:17:07 < jadew> BrainDamage, everyone seems to be excited about that combo, but I kept away because of python, I guess I'll have to dive in
2020-04-02T20:17:54 < jadew> zyp, what kind of range is that that only has one parameter? :)
2020-04-02T20:17:55 < BrainDamage> well, python compared to say c, you'll find some shortcomings
2020-04-02T20:18:05 < BrainDamage> but python compared to matlab, python all the way
2020-04-02T20:18:13 < jadew> that's good to know
2020-04-02T20:18:17 < srk> or Haskell if you're BrainDamaged enough
2020-04-02T20:18:47 < englishman> labview ftw
2020-04-02T20:19:53 < jpa-> jadew:    0:-1:-3
2020-04-02T20:20:05 < jadew> jpa-, yeah, but if instead of -3 you have x
2020-04-02T20:20:19 < jadew> and if instead of x you have an expression
2020-04-02T20:20:36 < jadew> then you end up with several lines of code
2020-04-02T20:20:41 < jpa-> jadew: so, is there any language where you can have a range of 0 to x where x is either positive or negative and it picks +1 or -1 step automatically?
2020-04-02T20:20:54 < jadew> because you need one variable to hold the result then an if to compare with the first parameter of the range
2020-04-02T20:21:28 < jadew> jpa-, I would have expected that it was possible in a mathematical language
2020-04-02T20:21:33 < jadew> in the end, the step is always 1
2020-04-02T20:21:36 < jadew> not -1
2020-04-02T20:21:43 < jadew> 0:-1:-3 is also stupid
2020-04-02T20:21:59 < jadew> because you're already specifying direction with the first and last parameters
2020-04-02T20:22:09 < jadew> if you went -3:0, it's obviously 1
2020-04-02T20:22:27 < jpa-> there are many situations where getting an empty list out in that situation is useful also
2020-04-02T20:22:48 < jpa-> though octave/matlab "endpoints included" syntax is not very useful in that regard
2020-04-02T20:23:03 < jadew> sure, but it makes the range concept... more complex than it has to be
2020-04-02T20:23:09 < jadew> it should be a basic block
2020-04-02T20:23:40 < jpa-> there is   linspace()   that does kind of what you want
2020-04-02T20:23:57 < jpa-> but it doesn't operate with a step but instead by number of subdivisions
2020-04-02T20:24:16 < jadew> eh, I just made my own function that flips the step
2020-04-02T20:24:36 < jpa-> i must say that i've never run into the need that you have :)
2020-04-02T20:24:37 < tomeaton17> tcth: the window needs to know because it is implemented using a multisample buffer and the buffer swaping is handled by the window
2020-04-02T20:24:41 < jadew> but if this was the only annoyance it would be great
2020-04-02T20:28:08 < tcth> tomeaton17, makes sense!
2020-04-02T20:32:10 < Steffanx> jadew is working on a prediction where the number of deaths goes negative?
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2020-04-02T20:32:32 < Steffanx> *lower than the day before.
2020-04-02T20:32:42 < jadew> Steffanx, that's actually where I needed that, yeah :)
2020-04-02T20:33:20 < jadew> I wanted to be able to plot before day 0
2020-04-02T20:33:31 < jadew> my data set starts at 2000 or so deaths
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2020-04-02T20:34:46 < Steffanx> Want some unverified videos from equador jadew? https://twitter.com/karene29/status/1245575078097481735
2020-04-02T20:35:35 < jadew> jeez...
2020-04-02T20:35:37 < Steffanx> ecuador*
2020-04-02T20:35:49 < jadew> thanks
2020-04-02T20:35:50 < Steffanx> or whatever the proper way is to write it
2020-04-02T20:36:00 < jadew> you know you can't find that stuff on google/youtube, right?
2020-04-02T20:36:18 < jadew> or at least I can't
2020-04-02T20:36:22 < jadew> how did you find it?
2020-04-02T20:37:01 < boddax> Ya
2020-04-02T20:37:39 < Steffanx> We have this dutch blog that's always pretty fast with shit like that, jadew
2020-04-02T20:37:48 < Steffanx> aka https://www.geenstijl.nl/
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2020-04-02T20:38:17 < jadew> thanks
2020-04-02T20:38:17 < Steffanx> Although nowadays it's not reaaaally a blog anymore imho
2020-04-02T20:38:53 < boddax> Ya Steffano thats a really shit-fi  blog
2020-04-02T20:39:55 < Steffanx> how do you know boddax? you dont even speak dutch :P
2020-04-02T20:40:54 < boddax> there also panish and Rutte
2020-04-02T20:41:14 < boddax> who is Rutte
2020-04-02T20:41:24 < Steffanx> there's also tits boddax
2020-04-02T20:41:32 < Steffanx> Our prime minister, boddax
2020-04-02T20:42:00 < boddax> lets free Rutte
2020-04-02T20:42:19 < Steffanx> he's fine
2020-04-02T20:42:35 < boddax> he look like beer drunker
2020-04-02T20:43:21 < Steffanx> WUT.
2020-04-02T20:43:59 < Steffanx> This is what normal people look like. Unlike your white teethed berlusconi :P
2020-04-02T20:44:04 < jadew> Steffanx, where are those other videos from? they all seem to speak spanish
2020-04-02T20:45:03 < boddax> eheh berlusconi every new yer  look more chinese
2020-04-02T20:45:10 < jadew> oh, that's all from Ecuador
2020-04-02T20:45:34 < boddax> due the face surgery
2020-04-02T20:45:52 < jadew> did you see his gf?
2020-04-02T20:46:05 < Steffanx> You mean gold digger?
2020-04-02T20:46:06 < boddax> his gf gut
2020-04-02T20:46:58 < boddax> what to do with sexy gf when your beep not working anymore
2020-04-02T20:47:21 < jadew> boddax, there are pharmaceutical solutions now
2020-04-02T20:48:25 < boddax> hoe de varkensband te leggen
2020-04-02T20:48:31 < boddax> correct?=
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2020-04-02T20:50:53 < jadew> Steffanx, and like China, they seem to be seriously under reporting
2020-04-02T20:51:35 < Steffanx> no, varkensband does not seem to be a word boddax :P
2020-04-02T20:54:18 < boddax> https://thumbs.dreamstime.com/z/varkensband-66946835.jpg
2020-04-02T20:56:21 < boddax> in italien maialen
2020-04-02T20:56:39 < Steffanx> never heard of a varkensband
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2020-04-02T20:58:11 < boddax> maiale gut for porchetta ..sorry for this cruel image http://www.macelleriapiunti.it/assets/img/porchetta.jpg
2020-04-02T20:58:49 < boddax> do you have porchetta in dutchland Stefanx ?
2020-04-02T20:59:35 < Steffanx> Doesnt seem like a common dutch thing
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2020-04-02T21:13:35 < jadew> Steffanx, is this why you're reading that blog? https://www.geenstijl.nl/5152741/hier-de-regels-voor-het-snikhete-weekend/#more
2020-04-02T21:17:18 < Steffanx> haha jadew
2020-04-02T21:19:07 < boddax> wow im positive impressed
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2020-04-02T21:19:23 < boddax> much better than Rutte
2020-04-02T21:19:36 -!- con3 [~kvirc@165.255.54.59] has quit [Client Quit]
2020-04-02T21:42:17 < Steffanx> Try the friday after work drink-topics: https://www.geenstijl.nl/search/?keyword=vrijmobo lol
2020-04-02T21:46:27 < qyx> if I wanted a motor conrol advanced timer (TIM1ň with ETR connected to an internal comparator connected to an internal DAC and a external current sense resistor
2020-04-02T21:46:42 < qyx> which stm32 would I use
2020-04-02T21:46:46 < qyx> optimizing for cost now
2020-04-02T21:46:58 < qyx> theres no such thing in F0
2020-04-02T21:47:05 < qyx> G4 is expensive, G0 nothing
2020-04-02T21:48:30 < Cracki> got any parametric search/filter? i'd filter for available DAC first
2020-04-02T21:48:44 < qyx> good point
2020-04-02T21:48:45 < Cracki> how advanced a timer? 6 channels?
2020-04-02T21:48:51 < Cracki> dead time and shit?
2020-04-02T21:48:53 < qyx> 4 channels, no complementary
2020-04-02T21:49:01 < qyx> so no dead time
2020-04-02T21:49:34 < qyx> actually I need 4 low side switches with pwm and OCP
2020-04-02T21:49:56 < Cracki> I think my f303cc devboards ("robotdyn") might fit the bill. have dacs, likely have comparators, the timer is fancy enough, not sure if etr can be connected to comparator
2020-04-02T21:50:22 < Cracki> my boss implements OCP with some allegro chip that does it
2020-04-02T21:50:49 < Cracki> the chip does a kind of chopping (in addition to your own pwm drive signal) if it senses OC
2020-04-02T21:51:14 < Cracki> a4955 or something was it. it has the charge pumps to drive nfets highside
2020-04-02T21:51:33 < Cracki> ("has", you give it the passives)
2020-04-02T21:52:48 < qyx> I know I can do it with dedicated ICs
2020-04-02T21:52:59 < qyx> but now I want it ghetto style
2020-04-02T21:53:08 < qyx> 4 n-mos directly connected to GPIO
2020-04-02T21:53:24 < qyx> one sensing resistor, without opamp
2020-04-02T21:55:11 < qyx> STM32F051x4 STM32F051x6 STM32F051x8 is probably what I am looking for
2020-04-02T21:55:35 < qyx> Both comparators can wake up from STOP mode, generate interrupts and breaks for the
2020-04-02T21:55:38 < qyx> timers
2020-04-02T21:55:53 < qyx> so there are two, even better
2020-04-02T21:57:34 < boddax> i seen some katherein antenna tilt rotor driven by f'0 circuit
2020-04-02T21:57:53 < boddax> *F0
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2020-04-02T22:16:20 < mawk> varkenstaart maybe boddax ?
2020-04-02T22:16:36 < Steffanx> what is the english word indeed. i still dont know :P
2020-04-02T22:16:40 < Steffanx> -indee
2020-04-02T22:16:40 < Steffanx> d
2020-04-02T22:16:41 < mawk> pig tail
2020-04-02T22:16:43 < mawk> probably
2020-04-02T22:17:09 < boddax> none .. i know dutch language better than Steffanx 
2020-04-02T22:17:13 < mawk> lol
2020-04-02T22:17:17 < Steffanx> no, its not a dutch word.
2020-04-02T22:17:34 < mawk> maybe in belgium ?
2020-04-02T22:17:37 < mawk> google gives me .be results
2020-04-02T22:17:41 < mawk> for varkensband
2020-04-02T22:17:47 < boddax> i m thinking you are importet from china
2020-04-02T22:18:20 < doomba> ya mawk is chinese, you didn't know?
2020-04-02T22:18:34 < mawk> what
2020-04-02T22:18:43 < doomba> he was contracted by Bill & Melinda Gates Foundation to engineer SARS-CoV-2
2020-04-02T22:18:46 < mawk> lol
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2020-04-02T22:19:47 < doomba> He wanted to call it The Chawky Mawky Virus, but Bill had already settled on a coronavirus for event 201.
2020-04-02T22:21:02 < Steffanx> Can you visit IRC in jail doomba?
2020-04-02T22:22:25 < Steffanx> *use
2020-04-02T22:22:56 < Steffanx> and them mainly... freenode?
2020-04-02T22:23:14 < boddax> i seen mawk buy bat at the market
2020-04-02T22:24:30 < mawk> :(
2020-04-02T22:24:36 < Steffanx> Yeah he likes table tennis i heard.
2020-04-02T22:25:09 < boddax> yummy bat barbecue
2020-04-02T22:25:29 < jadew> Steffanx, that link has 0 results
2020-04-02T22:25:39 < Steffanx> imposible jadew
2020-04-02T22:25:50 < Steffanx> oh typo
2020-04-02T22:25:57 < Steffanx> https://www.geenstijl.nl/search/?keyword=vrijmibo
2020-04-02T22:26:05 < mawk> what's mibo
2020-04-02T22:26:07 < mawk> ?????
2020-04-02T22:26:30 < jadew> Steffanx, thanks
2020-04-02T22:26:42 < boddax> yummy too
2020-04-02T22:26:59 < Steffanx> VRIJdag MIddagBOrrel.
2020-04-02T22:27:01 < Steffanx> -space
2020-04-02T22:27:12 < mawk> why middag
2020-04-02T22:27:14 < mawk> it's at 17h
2020-04-02T22:27:32 < Steffanx> that's middag.
2020-04-02T22:27:32 < jadew> it's a good blog
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2020-04-02T22:28:02 < mawk> that's evening
2020-04-02T22:31:19 < doomba> Steffanx: yep.
2020-04-02T22:31:46 < doomba> snitch alert
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2020-04-02T22:33:21 < Steffanx> no, that's middag, mawk
2020-04-02T22:33:35 < Steffanx> >= 18.00 is evening
2020-04-02T22:33:45 < mawk> noooo
2020-04-02T22:34:08 < Steffanx> YES
2020-04-02T22:34:33 < AndrevS> the evening begins at 18:00 hours
2020-04-02T22:35:35 < Steffanx> according to wikipedia some dutch laws even define it as 19.00-23.00
2020-04-02T22:36:15 < AndrevS> In that case I'm an anarchist
2020-04-02T22:38:36 < Steffanx> hah
2020-04-02T22:38:48 < Steffanx> learn2dutch mawk
2020-04-02T22:39:07 < mawk> ja ja
2020-04-02T22:42:38 < Steffanx> better watch the video in their latest blog post jadew. 
2020-04-02T22:43:00 < Steffanx> you gotta love to see someone talk more than she ever did in her 10000 videos before.
2020-04-02T22:43:10 < Steffanx> *see and hear
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2020-04-02T23:19:46 < jadew> Steffanx, the one with Riley?
2020-04-02T23:19:52 < Steffanx> heh yeah
2020-04-02T23:20:37 < jadew> I never heard her voice before
2020-04-02T23:21:01 < Steffanx> lol
2020-04-02T23:21:52 < bitmask> https://imgur.com/a/xvixnkn
2020-04-02T23:21:53 < bitmask> right out of the bath, no polishing or anything
2020-04-02T23:23:31 < BrainDamage> next step, coat your hand
2020-04-02T23:24:00 < Steffanx> Goldmask.
2020-04-02T23:24:11 < Steffanx> should use gold.
2020-04-02T23:25:18 < Steffanx> Does your gf make fun of you yet bitmask? Or does she understand what you're doing?
2020-04-02T23:26:49 < jadew> he's perfecting the technique necessary to print a PLA ring, coat it with copper and then with gold
2020-04-02T23:27:12 < jadew> he'll have the last laugh
2020-04-02T23:28:04 < bitmask> oh yea shes made fun of me 
2020-04-02T23:28:40 < bitmask> she doesnt understand why I do any of these things, hell I dont most of the time either
2020-04-02T23:28:46 < Steffanx> :D
2020-04-02T23:29:00 < Steffanx> occupational therapy
2020-04-02T23:29:57 < kakimir> golden spoon
2020-04-02T23:30:21 < kakimir> ghetto style
2020-04-02T23:30:59 < Cracki> why? curiosity! that should be enough of a reason
2020-04-02T23:33:08 < kakimir> why are things done
2020-04-02T23:33:17 < kakimir> .
2020-04-02T23:34:16 < catphish> found a solution to my 12v PSU problem - comes with a case too :) https://www.paxton-access.com/za/paxton-12v-2a-dc-power-supply-plastic-cabinet/
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2020-04-02T23:43:20 < Laurenceb> lol the police are cruising around the neighbourhood
2020-04-02T23:43:24 < Laurenceb> ppl clapping
2020-04-02T23:43:26 < Laurenceb> the state
2020-04-02T23:44:01 < aandrew> "Anyone who says one person can't change the world never ate an undercooked bat."
2020-04-02T23:44:14 < Laurenceb> lmao
2020-04-02T23:44:34 < Laurenceb> >clap for the doctors and medics
2020-04-02T23:44:50 < Laurenceb> >police turn up at 8pm and start cruising around waving
2020-04-02T23:45:01 < Laurenceb> >it wuz da police dat saved everyone
2020-04-02T23:45:37 < kakimir> https://resources.pcb.cadence.com/blog/2019-just-how-wide-should-a-pcb-50-ohm-trace-width-be those stock photos
2020-04-02T23:46:10 < kakimir> photo of you when you don't want to open pcb calculator
2020-04-02T23:47:16 < Laurenceb> https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-london-52133380
2020-04-02T23:47:20 < Laurenceb> cough on the pigs tbh
2020-04-02T23:47:35 < Laurenceb> >I am Covid
2020-04-02T23:47:38 < Laurenceb> kekking hard
2020-04-02T23:50:06 < kakimir> you must ask youself
2020-04-02T23:50:13 < kakimir> what have I done for memes today
2020-04-02T23:50:53 < Laurenceb> https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-beds-bucks-herts-52142052
2020-04-02T23:51:03 < Laurenceb> >show up da hospital
2020-04-02T23:51:07 < Laurenceb> >go to jail
2020-04-02T23:51:17 < Laurenceb> might as well more to china at this rate
2020-04-02T23:51:20 < Laurenceb> *move
2020-04-02T23:53:42 < englishman> was xi jinping your uncle's ex neighbour or something
2020-04-02T23:55:22 < kakimir> did xi live his youth in uk?
2020-04-02T23:55:26 < Laurenceb> I'm pissed off right now
2020-04-02T23:55:43 < Laurenceb> covid shit needs to wrap up before we become a police state
2020-04-02T23:55:54 < kakimir> >before
2020-04-02T23:56:47 < Laurenceb> lol
2020-04-02T23:57:11 < Laurenceb> >pleading guilty
2020-04-02T23:57:23 < Laurenceb> full retard guy deserved it tho tbh
2020-04-02T23:58:00 < Laurenceb> I got into a massive argument with nurses last time I went into a hospital
2020-04-02T23:58:32 < kakimir> they didn't get your memes?
2020-04-02T23:58:33 < Laurenceb> they had set up an oxygen distribution manifold in a dangerous way and I showed a couple of them how to fix it
2020-04-02T23:58:41 < kakimir> ah
2020-04-02T23:58:43 < kakimir> nurses
2020-04-02T23:58:58 < Laurenceb> then the matron or whatever she is called went full rage mode on me
2020-04-02T23:59:49 < Laurenceb> and it got worse when I said they could blow up the hospital with their incompetence
2020-04-02T23:59:51 < Laurenceb> lol
2020-04-02T23:59:57 < kakimir> they whipped the floor with your mansplaining ass
--- Day changed Fri Apr 03 2020
2020-04-03T00:00:20 < Laurenceb> lmao
2020-04-03T00:00:32 < Laurenceb> shortly before blowing themselves sky high
2020-04-03T00:01:24 < Laurenceb> there is something really disfunctional about hospital medics tbh
2020-04-03T00:01:47 < Laurenceb> I managed to haxor into the nhs record system and delete all the shitposts on my mums medical records
2020-04-03T00:01:59 < Laurenceb> really nasty stuff written by hospital staff
2020-04-03T00:03:32 < zyp> I can't really imagine Laurenceb getting into «massive arguments» in person, sounds more like a fantasy
2020-04-03T00:03:44 < Laurenceb> even a warning pop up thing set to go off if they entered her details, all because she got into an argument with a matron
2020-04-03T00:03:56 < kakimir> workplace with women majority turns into toxic pitt - it's the rule of nature
2020-04-03T00:05:56 < Laurenceb> this was pre GDPR, I bet you could btfo them with that now
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2020-04-03T00:07:11 < kakimir> isn't there something really disfunctional about the whole NHS
2020-04-03T00:07:44 < kakimir> assuming we are talking about NHS
2020-04-03T00:09:53 < Laurenceb> well GPs and paramedics are top quality imo
2020-04-03T00:10:19 < Laurenceb> its just the hospital culture that can be disfunctional, but I think thats hospital culture in general
2020-04-03T00:10:39 < Laurenceb> >Moscow residents will be obligated to register for a government-issued QR code -- a small square matrix bar code containing personal data. What information the codes will hold isn't yet clear
2020-04-03T00:10:43 < Laurenceb> holy shit wew
2020-04-03T00:10:56 < Laurenceb> on their foreheads I'm guessing
2020-04-03T00:11:43 < kakimir> QR codes are language of chinese
2020-04-03T00:15:46 < Steffanx> Yeah. Finnish words are so long. Couldn't fit that into QR code
2020-04-03T00:16:36 < sync> why not just implant some kind of rfid into babbies
2020-04-03T00:17:16 < kakimir> just tatoo it to back of your neck
2020-04-03T00:18:46 < Laurenceb> the mark of the beast
2020-04-03T00:26:22 < kakimir> I must admit this one looks very much like arrangement for prophecies
2020-04-03T00:26:56 < catphish> for a simple async serial link, does it make any difference whether i use a UART or a USART peripheral?
2020-04-03T00:27:08 < catphish> this STM32 has a ridiculous number of U(S)ARTs
2020-04-03T00:27:33 < kakimir> nope
2020-04-03T00:28:08 < catphish> i guess i'll start at USART1 then
2020-04-03T00:34:47 < qyx> good start, it is the first
2020-04-03T00:36:11 < zyp> catphish, the S denotes sync capability, the A denotes async capability
2020-04-03T00:36:24 < zyp> there's only USARTs and UARTs, not USRTs, so they are all async capable
2020-04-03T00:36:37 < catphish> that's easy then
2020-04-03T00:37:58 < zyp> got some litex example code running on the colorlight ecp5 board :)
2020-04-03T00:37:59 < zyp> https://paste.jvnv.net/view/K1r2i
2020-04-03T00:39:18 < zyp> it doesn't meet timing, so it's not working 100%, but according to comments it's not supposed to either
2020-04-03T00:39:58 < zyp> Warning: Max frequency for clock            '$glbnet$main_crg_clkout0': 44.96 MHz (FAIL at 125.00 MHz)
2020-04-03T00:40:01 < zyp> Warning: Max frequency for clock '$glbnet$eth_clocks_rx$TRELLIS_IO_IN': 97.83 MHz (FAIL at 125.00 MHz)
2020-04-03T00:40:25 < zyp> almost impressive that it's working at all :)
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2020-04-03T00:59:25 < kakimir> litex seems to be the shit?
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2020-04-03T01:01:16 < kakimir> https://drive.google.com/file/d/1DxDlFRFwPvDL27jfVFxg56w1-EIJdZh-/view?usp=sharing getting things done finally
2020-04-03T01:02:02 -!- ohsix [ohsix@bc175210.bendcable.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds]
2020-04-03T01:02:33 < kakimir> pop that into ecp5 versa and it's all hardware required for nand emulation experiments
2020-04-03T01:02:45 < zyp> cool
2020-04-03T01:03:07 < kakimir> I think I get it done tommorow
2020-04-03T01:05:29 < emeb> 45MHz vs 125MHz - that's a pretty wide margin to miss by.
2020-04-03T01:05:43 < emeb> is it just incorrectly constrained?
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2020-04-03T01:19:13 < zyp> emeb, no, the ethernet stuff needs 125 MHz
2020-04-03T01:19:36 < jly> Good morning all
2020-04-03T01:26:20 < kakimir> should I use convex or concave resistor arrays?
2020-04-03T01:32:35 < zyp> emeb, https://github.com/litex-hub/litex-boards/issues/40
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2020-04-03T02:05:37 < kakimir> https://drive.google.com/file/d/1DxDlFRFwPvDL27jfVFxg56w1-EIJdZh-/view?usp=sharing fasttracking progress
2020-04-03T02:15:45 < englishman> coronavirus turns retarded
2020-04-03T02:15:54 < englishman> here you can't shop for groceries together
2020-04-03T02:16:01 < englishman> 1 person has to go in
2020-04-03T02:16:15 < BrainDamage> that was adopted here weeks ago
2020-04-03T02:16:30 < qyx> same here
2020-04-03T02:16:36 < englishman> so wifeishman will do the contaminating
2020-04-03T02:16:47 < qyx> 1 person for 25 sq m
2020-04-03T02:16:56 < jly> THE BUG
2020-04-03T02:17:01 < BrainDamage> i think it was simply because supermarkets were getting overcrowded
2020-04-03T02:17:17 < englishman> I went on Tuesday they were empty
2020-04-03T02:17:20 < jly> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o7nvyXFsyf8
2020-04-03T02:17:52 < englishman> went out at rush hour today and did 170km/h on the bridge
2020-04-03T02:17:55 < BrainDamage> heh, I went Tuesday too, at 14, I arrived there and the parking lot was overcrowded, by the time I got out it was empty
2020-04-03T02:18:14 < BrainDamage> multi-track drifting on the highway
2020-04-03T02:18:54 < englishman> ghost town
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2020-04-03T02:25:24 < jly> A man has been fined $1000 after he was caught eating a kebab on a park bench in Newcastle.
2020-04-03T02:26:42 -!- Mangy_Dog [Mangy_Dog@unaffiliated/mangy-dog/x-3069595] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds]
2020-04-03T02:26:52 < jly> Police also attended a single vehicle car crash in Lavington, where the sole occupant, a man, 51, allegedly told police he was on his way to visit his drug dealer.
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2020-04-03T02:32:49 < aandrew> kakimir: that's a big breakout
2020-04-03T02:34:10 < aandrew> I've always used concave ones but I don't think it truly matters at our level. there's probably some materials engineering reasoning for one over the other but I don't know it
2020-04-03T02:35:46 < aandrew> englishman: I'm the appointed one for getting corona'd. aside from going into the backyard or for a walk around the block I'm the only one who's left the house since mid-march
2020-04-03T02:36:17 < englishman> business as usual then
2020-04-03T02:36:49 < aandrew> as far as groceries go everything is stocked well except for sanitizer, lysol wipes and flour. eggs are low but most places have limits per customer now so no biggie
2020-04-03T02:37:02 < aandrew> two weeks ago all the frozen vegetables except for brussels sprouts were gone
2020-04-03T02:37:17 < englishman> the milkman came today at 3:30pm sharp like he always does
2020-04-03T02:37:31 < aandrew> I didn't need anything (I have a freezer full of shit in the garage) but it was kind of funny
2020-04-03T02:37:40 < aandrew> campbell's cans of soup were limit 2 per customer
2020-04-03T02:37:49 < aandrew> heh there are no milkmen here
2020-04-03T02:37:58 < englishman> yum, salt and flour
2020-04-03T02:38:52 < ds2> milkman? they still are around?
2020-04-03T02:39:00 < kakimir> I can imagine a future where postman pat drives to yard and brings news paper and groceries
2020-04-03T02:39:20 < aandrew> we always have some stock of rice, beans, flour and salt and when I do go to costco I usually get a thing of toilet paper, kleenex and paper towels and we whittle down that stock over months then go do it again
2020-04-03T02:39:25 < aandrew> so there was never any issues there for us
2020-04-03T02:39:25 < kakimir> they already do lawn mowing
2020-04-03T02:40:00 < aandrew> the milkmen?
2020-04-03T02:40:09 < aandrew> they're a multitalented crew
2020-04-03T02:40:25 < BrainDamage> mutilated crew
2020-04-03T02:41:42 < englishman> no reusable bags allowed
2020-04-03T02:41:48 < englishman> lol what a 180 from a month ago
2020-04-03T02:41:57 < englishman> when they were just about to ban plastic bags
2020-04-03T02:42:09 < BrainDamage> what
2020-04-03T02:43:05 < BrainDamage> here plastic bags have to be compostable
2020-04-03T02:43:10 < BrainDamage> so they got flimsy as shit
2020-04-03T02:43:15 < BrainDamage> like thin as eggshells
2020-04-03T02:43:24 < BrainDamage> otherwise, no such bans
2020-04-03T02:44:40 < Cracki> they still have reusable plastic (tarp like) and reusable cloth, right?
2020-04-03T02:44:47 < BrainDamage> yes
2020-04-03T02:45:33 < Cracki> my usual store's only "throwaway" option is paper. unless they get wet, they're good for a bunch of times, but I use them for paper bins
2020-04-03T02:47:34 < Cracki> compostable plastic bag sounds silly. nobody would throw that in the bio bin, which does get composted industrially and can digest things like PLA plastic
2020-04-03T02:48:07 < Cracki> if it ends up with misc trash, it's only getting burned. if it ends up in a landfill, it'll take decades to decay
2020-04-03T02:48:15 < zyp> why not?
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2020-04-03T02:48:20 < Cracki> not what?
2020-04-03T02:48:33 < zyp> I'd absolutely throw compostable bags in the bio bin
2020-04-03T02:48:53 < Cracki> yes, because you'd read what they print on the thing and do as asked
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2020-04-03T02:49:50 < Cracki> it crinkles like normal plastic. unless it's made really obvious that it isn't, people will just treat it like normal plastic
2020-04-03T02:50:25 < Cracki> it's difficult enough to keep ordinary plastics apart like for single use or multi use plastic bottles, shrink wraps, ...
2020-04-03T02:51:05 < Cracki> even the glass we have in our households isn't all the same, and can't be mixed. not just because of color
2020-04-03T02:51:24 < Cracki> my glass jars n bottles container says not to throw in window panes
2020-04-03T02:52:07 < Cracki> they're ok with metal and plastic caps because sorting that is trivial and needs to be done anyway
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2020-04-03T02:55:01 < sync> BrainDamage: unfortunately the compostable ones are a lie :/
2020-04-03T02:55:10 < sync> at least the ones made from starch
2020-04-03T02:55:29 < kakimir> aandrew: post men
2020-04-03T02:55:39 < kakimir> and food deliveries
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2020-04-03T02:56:38 < kakimir> f.kin kicad is confused now
2020-04-03T02:56:56 < kakimir> it thinks +VTARGET is +3V3
2020-04-03T02:57:21 < kakimir> I checked and those are not connected anywhere in the schematic
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2020-04-03T02:58:14 < aandrew> i hate when the tools make me doubt they have everything figured out
2020-04-03T02:59:49 < kakimir> maybe it's just broken again
2020-04-03T03:00:07 < kakimir> I have seen a lot weirder stuff
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2020-04-03T03:10:06 < kakimir> https://www.latticesemi.com/-/media/LatticeSemi/Images/ProductImages/DevelopmentKitsAndBoards/ECP55GVersaDevKit/LFE5UM5G-45F-VERSA-EVN-top.ashx this is how to provide a photo of an product
2020-04-03T03:12:38 < kakimir> https://www.latticesemi.com/-/media/LatticeSemi/Images/ProductImages/DevelopmentKitsAndBoards/ECP5VersaDevKit/ECP5VersaDevKitSideView.ashx I mean I can see fingerprints of Lattice engineer in that
2020-04-03T03:20:31 < Laurenceb> https://i.imgur.com/mh7erOg.gif
2020-04-03T03:22:18 < kakimir> I played it a while until I realized it was .gif
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2020-04-03T03:28:59 < kakimir> null>
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2020-04-03T03:32:31 < Cracki> nice photos. well illuminated.
2020-04-03T03:32:33 < Cracki> someone knows their shit.
2020-04-03T03:33:08 < Cracki> that's light from the sides, way outside the viewing angle of the camera (mirrored in the board)
2020-04-03T03:33:12 < catphish> anyone got a schematic to hand with a f407 or similar? want to see how the million power supply lines are wired up
2020-04-03T03:36:14 < fenugrec> stm probably ? f407 disco board
2020-04-03T03:37:30 < catphish> yep, that'l do :)
2020-04-03T03:42:08 < aandrew> catphish: million power supply lines? it's the same as all the STM32F4s
2020-04-03T03:43:12 < catphish> that may well be true, but doesn't help me as i've not used a f series before
2020-04-03T03:43:45 < catphish> anyway, not too tricky, vcap1 and vcap2 just need external 2u2 caps
2020-04-03T03:44:08 < Luggi09> just follow the appnote
2020-04-03T03:44:10 < catphish> and vref i can connect to 3v3
2020-04-03T03:44:11 < Luggi09> super easy
2020-04-03T03:45:05 < Luggi09> still had a customer who managed to fuck that up
2020-04-03T03:45:07 < Luggi09> https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=1&ved=2ahUKEwjL3rLIg8voAhWPM-wKHY5aB64QFjAAegQIBxAB&url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.st.com%2Fresource%2Fen%2Fapplication_note%2Fdm00115714-getting-started-with-stm32f4xxxx-mcu-hardware-development-stmicroelectronics.pdf&usg=AOvVaw38_sGpoASxqYhiRULvV579
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2020-04-03T03:45:58 < catphish> thanks, i'll read that, i was a little confused by the diagram that's repeated there and in the datasheet
2020-04-03T03:46:07 < catphish> but hopefully it's explained if i read all the words
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2020-04-03T03:50:37 < kakigate> https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/ it's megaevent now
2020-04-03T03:51:27 < kakigate> 1megainfected
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2020-04-03T03:58:56 < catphish> lol 100 pin overkill https://nutty.tk/ethernet.pdf
2020-04-03T04:00:32 < catphish> at least there's plenty of scope to move GPIOs to make the layout easy!
2020-04-03T04:02:21 < catphish> maybe i'll some LEDs on the board for no reason :)
2020-04-03T04:06:27 < Laurenceb> meanwhile in murica
2020-04-03T04:06:29 < Laurenceb> https://i.redd.it/onukk57ybhq41.png
2020-04-03T04:08:33 < catphish> lol
2020-04-03T04:08:44 < catphish> i guess it wasn't the right hole
2020-04-03T04:09:17 < Laurenceb> serious business
2020-04-03T04:09:30 < ds2> photograph of the employee's fingerprints? got a name and place to go with that..
2020-04-03T04:12:40 < jly> hi Laurenceb 
2020-04-03T04:13:48 < kakigate> catphish: what the heck is going on with phy reset pin?
2020-04-03T04:14:15 < catphish> kakigate: i asked the same thing yesterday
2020-04-03T04:14:30 < kakigate> is this your doings?
2020-04-03T04:15:00 < catphish> kakigate: it's supposed to rise after VDD
2020-04-03T04:15:30 < kakigate> just use GPIO
2020-04-03T04:15:50 < kakigate> or do what everybody else does
2020-04-03T04:16:02 < catphish> that's actually not a bad idea, saves some parts
2020-04-03T04:16:16 < kakigate> always use GPIO
2020-04-03T04:16:23 < catphish> this design is just a copypaste of a copypaste of the reference design
2020-04-03T04:16:42 < catphish> but gpio seems sane
2020-04-03T04:17:08 < kakigate> add external pulldown
2020-04-03T04:17:10 < Thorn> https://twitter.com/nextspaceflight/status/1245870017578598400
2020-04-03T04:17:14 < kakigate> and that's it
2020-04-03T04:18:07 < catphish> thanks, i think i'll do that, happy to just software reset it as needed
2020-04-03T04:18:55 < catphish> the stm32 will boot with the gpio hi-z right, so the external pulldown will reset it until i decide otherwise
2020-04-03T04:24:35 < zyp> emeb_mac, I threw out the ethernet stuff, removed one of the buffer chips, wired across a couple of signals, instanced a plain UART and reduced sysclk to 64 MHz, now stuff works correctly :)
2020-04-03T04:24:41 < zyp> https://paste.jvnv.net/view/lMEoN
2020-04-03T04:31:52 < zyp> huh, my phone takes surprisingly decent closeups: https://bin.jvnv.net/file/8L4wZ.jpg
2020-04-03T04:33:09 < zyp> should have gotten some of those analog switches
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2020-04-03T05:38:41 < kakigate> is SFP basically a gigabit connection?
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2020-04-03T05:50:58 < zyp> kakigate, what's that supposed to mean?
2020-04-03T05:51:14 < zyp> SFP is a form factor for a transceiver module
2020-04-03T05:51:29 < kakigate> ah yes
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2020-04-03T06:27:10 < Cracki> big table, MAC/PHY column has some familiar words such as "MII" https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Small_form-factor_pluggable_transceiver
2020-04-03T06:28:06 < dongs> SFP works in buffalo SFP switch
2020-04-03T06:28:15 < dongs> i guess their shit doesnt properly support SFP+
2020-04-03T06:28:19 < dongs> and gets confused by 10G ports
2020-04-03T06:28:37 < dongs> now problem is i have like 36 1GB ports i have no idea wat to do with
2020-04-03T06:28:47 < zyp> whose shit?
2020-04-03T06:28:50 < dongs> andthe idea of geting rid of standalone ONU was reducing power consumption
2020-04-03T06:28:57 < dongs> NTT's SFP-ONU
2020-04-03T06:29:02 < Cracki> related https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Media-independent_interface
2020-04-03T06:29:11 < dongs> b\ut now i have to fucking keep this buffalo shit powered up
2020-04-03T06:29:31 < Cracki> attach VGA monitors, use the i2c
2020-04-03T06:29:33 < zyp> so a 1G SFP doesn't work properly in a 10G SFP+ socket?
2020-04-03T06:29:36 < dongs> yeah
2020-04-03T06:29:48 < dongs> but SFP+ is backwards compatible
2020-04-03T06:29:49 < zyp> is it a dual mode 1G/10G socket then? most are not
2020-04-03T06:29:52 < dongs> yes
2020-04-03T06:29:55 < dongs> it specificaly says so
2020-04-03T06:30:03 < zyp> ah, ok
2020-04-03T06:30:05 < dongs> "port1 is 1.25/10g capable"
2020-04-03T06:30:08 < dongs> on mikrodik shit
2020-04-03T06:30:36 < zyp> ah, the CRS210 again? yeah, that one has one port that's 1G/10G and one that's only 10G IIRC
2020-04-03T06:30:48 < dongs> correct
2020-04-03T06:30:55 < dongs> i brought by CSS3216 also
2020-04-03T06:30:56 < dongs> that didnt work
2020-04-03T06:31:02 < dongs> those are both 1/10g capable
2020-04-03T06:31:05 < dongs> same issue
2020-04-03T06:31:11 < dongs> works on this 1G-only buffalo thing
2020-04-03T06:31:13 < dongs> for now, anyway
2020-04-03T06:31:18 < dongs> now i gotta rewire a bunch of shit
2020-04-03T06:41:35 < kakigate> what do you think SFP versus separate converter
2020-04-03T06:42:13 < kakigate> also required with SFP: SC to LC adapters
2020-04-03T06:42:38 < kakigate> basically the adapter itself is already a price of separate converter
2020-04-03T06:44:22 < kakigate> so I try to figure out if I get any more performance out of SFP that would justify 50% more expensive switches, 100% more price to all auxiliary adapters, modules, etc.
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2020-04-03T07:00:20 < dongs> what
2020-04-03T07:00:29 < dongs> kakigate: this jap shit SC just plugs directly into it
2020-04-03T07:00:44 < dongs> no adapter
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2020-04-03T08:47:46 < jadew> wtf happened in france yesterday?
2020-04-03T08:48:48 < jadew> they went from 500 deaths the day before to 1350
2020-04-03T08:49:01 < jadew> was there a power outage or what?
2020-04-03T08:58:40 < jly> cheese omelette 
2020-04-03T08:58:59 < jly> probably smoker's amnesia 
2020-04-03T09:01:20 < jpa-> jadew: it's two weeks after the corona virus protests ;)
2020-04-03T09:01:33 < jadew> oh really?
2020-04-03T09:01:41 < jadew> jeez...
2020-04-03T09:03:05 < jadew> it's ~20 days later, you're right
2020-04-03T09:05:10 < jadew> they must be the reason why my trend isn't following anymore
2020-04-03T09:06:26 < jadew> not a huge error, but still an error and it's positive
2020-04-03T09:07:43 < jadew> 800 more dead than predicted for yesterday
2020-04-03T09:10:46 < jpa-> in other news, my nose is runny - either this thing they call "pollen" is actually true, or coronavirus can transmit via email
2020-04-03T09:11:03 < jadew> I had a runny nose a couple of days ago too
2020-04-03T09:11:06 < jadew> and also now
2020-04-03T09:11:30 < jadew> as long as you don't get a fever or a cough, you're probably ok
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2020-04-03T09:12:26 < jpa-> thanks
2020-04-03T09:12:40 < jpa-> let me know if your model predicts that i'll be dead
2020-04-03T09:13:34 < jly> hmm
2020-04-03T09:13:41 < jadew> it doesn't, but I'll let you know if that changes
2020-04-03T09:13:58 < jly> I've had mild cold symptoms for over 6 weeks
2020-04-03T09:14:36 < jadew> my wife too, coughing and runny nose
2020-04-03T09:14:52 < jadew> we're distancing tho
2020-04-03T09:15:26 < jly> monoclonal antibodies took my b lymphocytes away for long service leave
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2020-04-03T09:50:18 < jly> the dogs
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2020-04-03T10:16:27 < Steffanx> France started to count deaths in nursing homes jadew
2020-04-03T10:16:33 < Steffanx> They didnt so that before
2020-04-03T10:16:47 < Steffanx> > jump
2020-04-03T10:18:00 < jly> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BkGIBpEdRJA
2020-04-03T10:18:06 < jly> didn't you steffan
2020-04-03T10:32:43 < jadew> Steffanx, oh...
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2020-04-03T10:41:53 < jadew> according to the worldometers data, the probability of death in healthy individuals, across the entire 18 to 39 years old, is 0.1%
2020-04-03T10:42:49 < jadew> so even if everything is perfect about you, you still have a ticket in draw
2020-04-03T10:42:52 < jadew> *in the
2020-04-03T10:46:28 < jadew> if the 70% prediction still holds true (and I think it does), then more than 5 million healthy young people are going to die from this
2020-04-03T10:47:05 < jadew> if that 1% figure is correct, of course
2020-04-03T10:49:32 < jadew> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-oIIP-i2K8I
2020-04-03T10:51:24 < jadew> and the comments...
2020-04-03T10:58:59 < jadew> In yet another reminder that the phrase "witch hunts" isn’t only used figuratively these days, the Saudi Interior Ministry announced on Monday that it had beheaded a woman named Amina bint Abdul Halim bin Salem Nasser for practicing "witchcraft and sorcery."
2020-04-03T10:59:10 < jadew> https://foreignpolicy.com/2011/12/13/how-do-you-prove-someones-a-witch-in-saudi-arabia/
2020-04-03T10:59:16 < jadew> old news, but damn...
2020-04-03T11:08:56 < Thorn> jadew: a 39 y.o. man died in Moscow, no chronic illnesses except obesity and high blood pressure
2020-04-03T11:09:18 < jadew> I think we had a similar case too
2020-04-03T11:13:19 < jadew> BrainDamage, looks like we're using those diving masks too
2020-04-03T11:22:00 < Steffanx> Witch hunting was popular in europe in the old ages too.... 
2020-04-03T11:24:43 < jadew> ah, cool, so they're just a couple of hundreds of years behind
2020-04-03T11:26:08 < jadew> to be fair, I think there are still people in Europe who still believe witches are real
2020-04-03T11:26:44 < jadew> but at least witch burning is not a thing anymore
2020-04-03T11:35:35 < jadew> last day of school before spring break today
2020-04-03T11:35:55 < jadew> I wished everyone on the parent's group "enjoy your travels!"
2020-04-03T11:37:32 < jly> i need another bong
2020-04-03T11:38:27 < Steffanx> No, you dont jly
2020-04-03T11:38:38 < jly> I need some tgn1412
2020-04-03T11:39:27 < jly> i like this - "You don’t need to be a rocket scientist to work out what will happen if you non-specifically activate every T cell in the body."
2020-04-03T11:44:11 < dongs> you need another dong
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2020-04-03T11:44:59 < jly> what's a man gotta do in this world to get covid19
2020-04-03T11:45:19 < dongs> god fucking damn
2020-04-03T11:45:22 < jly> i'm not going to tonguefuck BrainDamage 
2020-04-03T11:45:24 < dongs> nucleo pinout is acutalyl FUCKING USELESS
2020-04-03T11:45:29 < dongs> why is tehre only ONE FUCKING PIN wiht 3.3V
2020-04-03T11:45:31 < jly> yeah i fucking hate it
2020-04-03T11:45:49 < dongs> but tehres liek 5 5V pins
2020-04-03T11:45:51 < jly> and stm33cube
2020-04-03T11:45:53 < jly> yeah
2020-04-03T11:45:58 < jly> don't get me started
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2020-04-03T11:51:27 < Steffanx> The nucleo-144 i have here has more than one 3v3 for sure. Did you try the tarduino header?
2020-04-03T11:51:40 < dongs> tarduino header is socket not pin
2020-04-03T11:51:47 < dongs> i did find another 3.3, as "VDD"
2020-04-03T11:51:59 < Steffanx> oh, i have the board upside down. its a pins for me :P
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2020-04-03T12:12:56 < jly> hmmm
2020-04-03T12:13:42 < Steffanx> -a
2020-04-03T12:16:19 < jly> aids
2020-04-03T12:17:06 < jly> https://usercontent.irccloud-cdn.com/file/mpY3URPd/metastatic-cancer.png
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2020-04-03T12:26:43 < dongs> is that a fucking buttpirate
2020-04-03T12:27:29 < Steffanx> i have a buttpirate too somewhere
2020-04-03T12:27:42 < jly> lol
2020-04-03T12:27:59 < jly> n
2020-04-03T12:28:18 < Steffanx> do pens make the audio quality better?
2020-04-03T12:28:33 < Steffanx> *pen
2020-04-03T12:28:54 < PaulFertser> How many debuggers can you spot in a photo
2020-04-03T12:28:54 < jly> yes
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2020-04-03T12:29:35 < PaulFertser> The thing on the left looks like a usb blaster but it's upside down
2020-04-03T12:30:38 < jly> no it's the most retarded eval board known to man
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2020-04-03T12:31:19 < jly> and the revision is just as bad
2020-04-03T12:31:26 < PaulFertser> jly: I mean in black plastic enclosure
2020-04-03T12:31:27 < jly> they're still telling people to cut traces
2020-04-03T12:31:44 < jly> PaulFertser: it's just a salae logic clone
2020-04-03T12:31:54 < dongs> ah
2020-04-03T12:31:54 < jly> or however you spell that
2020-04-03T12:31:58 < dongs> figured either that or buttpirate.
2020-04-03T12:32:01 < PaulFertser> The whole photo looks fake, as if jumper wires from nucleo go nowhere, no devices attached to usb etc :)
2020-04-03T12:32:04 < dongs> chink trash, same ecnlosure
2020-04-03T12:32:12 < jly> yeah the stupid cunts couldn't tell me mode 0 or mode 3
2020-04-03T12:32:17 < jly> so i'd just figure it out 
2020-04-03T12:33:00 < jly> and some of the gibberish on the datasheet was unclear
2020-04-03T12:50:30 < Thorn> extremely informative interview https://www.svoboda.org/a/30525376.html
2020-04-03T12:59:53 < Steffanx> My russian is a bit rusty, can you help me out Thorn?
2020-04-03T13:00:27 < Thorn> sure Mr. Steffanx, use translate.google.com or translate.yandex.ru
2020-04-03T13:02:53 < Steffanx> Russian is always so hard to translate you cant write cyrillic. I sometimes game with russians and then they say something. But i cannot google translate it, because .. cyrillic.
2020-04-03T13:03:37 < Steffanx> like "COPN" (which i cannot write, because i cannot write the N mirrored) It must mean something like  "sorry" or whatever.
2020-04-03T13:04:04 < Steffanx> *when you cannot write cyrillic
2020-04-03T13:04:30 < Steffanx> Same applies to chinese ofcourse.
2020-04-03T13:05:23 < Steffanx> or whatever chinese dialect.
2020-04-03T13:06:55 < Steffanx> Anyway, is it really worth the effort to google/yande translate it Thorn?
2020-04-03T13:07:24 < Thorn> you can simply paste the url into the text field
2020-04-03T13:08:44 < Thorn> https://translate.google.com/translate?sl=auto&tl=en&u=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.svoboda.org%2Fa%2F30525376.html
2020-04-03T13:09:05 < Thorn> that's all the effort you need
2020-04-03T13:15:04 < PaulFertser> Steffanx: do you know to enter chinese symbols they basically write standard transcription of each word with latin letters? https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pinyin
2020-04-03T13:17:00 < Steffanx> PaulFertser: Cant you do something similarly in russia? I often see russians use "latin letters" and they all seem to understand.
2020-04-03T13:17:10 < Steffanx> (how you even call that?)
2020-04-03T13:18:09 < PaulFertser> Steffanx: "translit" and there's no standard about it. Just most russians kinda know how latin letters usually sound is latin/german/english and use that "intuitively".
2020-04-03T13:18:48 < Steffanx> aha
2020-04-03T13:21:18 < PaulFertser> Steffanx: but there're just 33 letters in russian alphabet (ukrainian is similar, they have some additional letters but lack a few russian) so basically each letter is assigned a key on a keyboard. With chinese each letter basically denotes a whole word so there can't be a keyboard like that. There're of course methods to kinda compose them but with computer dictionaries it's usually easier to
2020-04-03T13:21:25 < PaulFertser> just enter "mandarin" in pinyin using latin letters + digits.
2020-04-03T13:22:50 < PaulFertser> Hm, now the question is how people usually write Kanji.
2020-04-03T13:24:36 < PaulFertser> (I guess I used the word "letters" wrong, as letters imply alphabet, and so for the Chinese written languages the proper word would be "character")
2020-04-03T13:31:30 < Steffanx> heh, the importance of being correct ;)
2020-04-03T13:33:43 < PaulFertser> "Rōmaji is the most common way to input Japanese into word processors and computers"
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2020-04-03T13:58:10 < Thorn> https://twitter.com/HandtevyMD/status/1245832946612711424
2020-04-03T13:59:29 < Thorn> there's a lot of anectodal reports in russian speaking faebook about people coming down with a severe flu-like illness, even pneumonia, in Feb, Jan or even late 2019
2020-04-03T14:00:28 < Thorn> looks like nCoV may have been going around undetected for far longer than officially recognized
2020-04-03T14:03:00 < Steffanx> Nah, I'm not convinced by a single twatter that..
2020-04-03T14:03:05 < Steffanx> Like that*
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2020-04-03T14:07:47 < specing> there's no way such an infectious disease has been going around undetected for half a year
2020-04-03T14:08:03 -!- tomeaton17 [tomeaton17@unaffiliated/tomeaton17] has joined ##stm32
2020-04-03T14:14:39 < PaulFertser> Such an infectious _and deadly_ disease.
2020-04-03T14:14:50 < jpa-> Thorn: how does that test work? to me it seems like the "G" line is quite faint, only control line is visible
2020-04-03T14:17:03 < Thorn> jpa- https://twitter.com/HandtevyMD/status/1245846480663052295
2020-04-03T14:17:22 < Thorn> looks like the guy is the one making/selling the test lol
2020-04-03T14:17:37 < Thorn> so could be *viral* advertisement
2020-04-03T14:18:20 < Thorn> user manual https://www.dropbox.com/s/hju1ufdx70tqi7t/COVID-19%20IgG-IgM%20%20Package%20insert%20-%20revised%20on%203-23.docx?dl=0
2020-04-03T14:19:58 < jadew> do you guys remember when there were 100 deaths/day worldwide?
2020-04-03T14:20:11 < jadew> from covid
2020-04-03T14:20:31 < Steffanx> 19
2020-04-03T14:20:51 < jadew> yes, not to be confused with the one from this year
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2020-04-03T14:27:27 < jadew> that was last month
2020-04-03T14:27:42 < jadew> by the end of next week we'll probably have more than 10k/day
2020-04-03T14:30:37 < specing> PaulFertser: it's not that deadly
2020-04-03T14:30:52 < PaulFertser> specing: compared to what?
2020-04-03T14:31:03 < specing> PaulFertser: road traffic deaths
2020-04-03T14:31:15 < specing> 26 times more people die in those per year
2020-04-03T14:31:18 < specing> worldwide
2020-04-03T14:31:33 < jpa-> 26 times what?
2020-04-03T14:31:40 < specing> 1.35 million people
2020-04-03T14:31:42 < PaulFertser> specing: relatively evenly spread out through the year. Unlike what you get with pandemic.
2020-04-03T14:31:49 < specing> COVID saves lives
2020-04-03T14:32:06 < jpa-> 26 times the amount dead of covid deaths so far, or when we are done with it?
2020-04-03T14:32:08 < specing> quarantine => less traffic => less deaths
2020-04-03T14:32:13 < specing> jpa-: so far
2020-04-03T14:32:47 < jpa-> specing: so at the very minimum, you should compare that to "per month" counts instead of "per year" counts, because we haven't had covid traffic restrictions in place for more than a month 
2020-04-03T14:32:52 < specing> no
2020-04-03T14:33:07 < specing> jpa-: there will be vaccine/cure for COVID, but not for getting hit by a car
2020-04-03T14:33:19 < specing> so people will keep dying from the latter even a decade from now
2020-04-03T14:33:29 < jpa-> specing: yes, but the covid will stop saving lives as soon as there is vaccine
2020-04-03T14:33:37 < specing> That's true
2020-04-03T14:34:15 < jpa-> (not to downplay how idiotic your thought is to begin with, but mixing up years and months makes it just even more stupid :)
2020-04-03T14:34:35 < specing> But this is a good time to reconsider if we can actually afford air and road traffic in the scope we had 3 months ago
2020-04-03T14:34:56 < specing> (we can't, but most haven't figured that out yet)
2020-04-03T14:36:24 < jpa-> afford in terms of what? personal wealth? climate change? number of deaths?
2020-04-03T14:36:49 < jpa-> climate change is a separate problem, but this does not seem like the way it's gonna get solved
2020-04-03T14:36:51 < specing> the latter two
2020-04-03T14:37:03 < specing> climate change will not be solved
2020-04-03T14:37:04 < jpa-> number of deaths is probably pretty different between countries
2020-04-03T14:38:53 < PaulFertser> specing: traffic accidents reduction by 90 % in moscow.
2020-04-03T14:39:19 < specing> PaulFertser: cool
2020-04-03T14:39:27 < specing> COVID saving lives :P
2020-04-03T14:41:52 < karlp> Thorn: no chronic illness except, like two of the biggest contributors...
2020-04-03T14:59:30 < BrainDamage> covid will also kill a lot of people through poverty
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2020-04-03T15:21:15 < Thorn> how do I output a message with leading spaces in gnu make using $(info)?bI tried quotes and \ \ , all of it is printed literally
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2020-04-03T15:37:01 < englishman> >no chronic illnesses except obesity and high blood pressure
2020-04-03T15:37:30 < englishman> this plate is vegetarian, except for the beef
2020-04-03T15:39:17 < Laurenceb> https://forum.nasaspaceflight.com/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=48895.0;attach=1623621;image
2020-04-03T15:39:23 < Laurenceb> musk at wurk
2020-04-03T15:39:38 < englishman> is that the new one?
2020-04-03T15:39:59 < karlp> BrainDamage: likely more
2020-04-03T15:40:16 < Laurenceb> englishman: yeah they cruzzled it
2020-04-03T15:43:28 < englishman> https://nitter.net/austinbarnard45/status/1245977997582176256
2020-04-03T15:46:22 < Steffanx> what is nitter
2020-04-03T15:46:36 < karlp> twitter without js and shit
2020-04-03T15:46:37 < englishman> some twitter clone that doesnt nag you so fucking much
2020-04-03T15:46:41 < Steffanx> twitter for the darker skinned?
2020-04-03T15:46:42 < englishman> but it's millenial mode
2020-04-03T15:46:47 < Steffanx> oh
2020-04-03T15:47:02 < Steffanx> and night mode.
2020-04-03T15:47:05 < englishman> you can set it to normal mode
2020-04-03T15:47:48 < englishman> i only buy books with black pages and the text printed in light grey ink. it's easier on the eyes.
2020-04-03T16:00:44 < aandrew> heh never heard of nitter before
2020-04-03T16:00:56 < aandrew> Steffanx> twitter for the darker skinned?
2020-04-03T16:00:58 < aandrew> FUCKING LOL
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2020-04-03T16:15:17 < Thorn> >OpenOCD does not support GDB non-stop mode 
2020-04-03T16:16:41 < Steffanx> Thorn is a channer confirmed.
2020-04-03T16:17:26 < Thorn> I want to put functions like __cxa_pure_virtual(), __assert_func() etc. into a separate source file. how do I name it properly?
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2020-04-03T16:23:14 < karlp> _cplus_plus-Is_Awes0me.cxx ?
2020-04-03T16:25:42 < Mangy_Dog> Reaching out for some help, or maybe a collaberation. After my fake stm32f103 chip diabolical I waent to develop a hot plug tester validator, using a lqfp chip clamp to just put raw chips into the tester and check to see if its what it says to be. Im a decent programmer but I have utterly no idea what the protocols are for the stlink jtag that talks to the chips core at that level. To read 
2020-04-03T16:25:42 < Mangy_Dog> its true specs and to get around read bit protection. If anyone knows a bit about that level of chip interaction say like. Making a custom stlink type tool that can flash and do that deeply into the chips spec.... I would really like to talk to you to help me develop this little kit
2020-04-03T16:27:02 < Mangy_Dog> or if you are able to point me to some documentation that goes through the jtag protocol
2020-04-03T16:27:17 < jpa-> just write a tcl script for openocd
2020-04-03T16:27:29 < Mangy_Dog> or even better that could save me some time.... show me an open source kit that already does this
2020-04-03T16:27:37 < Mangy_Dog> jpa i kinda want this to be a stand alone unit
2020-04-03T16:27:40 < Mangy_Dog> with its own display
2020-04-03T16:27:47 < Mangy_Dog> not something that needs hooking up to a computer
2020-04-03T16:27:49 < jpa-> put a raspberry pi inside
2020-04-03T16:28:02 < Mangy_Dog> still sledge hammer to drive a nail there
2020-04-03T16:28:14 < jpa-> sure, but it is the easy and sane way
2020-04-03T16:28:14 < Mangy_Dog> something small and instant on
2020-04-03T16:28:28 < jpa-> but i guess you could also start with the blackmagic probe firmware
2020-04-03T16:28:39 < Mangy_Dog> hmm
2020-04-03T16:28:47 < Mangy_Dog> thats not a terrible idea
2020-04-03T16:29:02 < Mangy_Dog> though i fear needle and haystack
2020-04-03T16:29:03 < Mangy_Dog> :D
2020-04-03T16:29:26 < Mangy_Dog> im just full of analogies today
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2020-04-03T16:30:43 < englishman> i just get my chips from a legit source
2020-04-03T16:30:51 < Mangy_Dog> at 4 or 5 quid a chip
2020-04-03T16:30:57 < Mangy_Dog> thats just not doable for me
2020-04-03T16:31:47 < Luggi09> Mangy_Dog: how about lcsc?
2020-04-03T16:32:06 < englishman> if you spend 20 minutes delivering uber eats on your bicycle, you can buy a stm32, and save time vs. fucking around with fake shit
2020-04-03T16:32:09 < Mangy_Dog> theyre still around 4 or 5 quid per chip
2020-04-03T16:32:27 < Luggi09> then that's what you pay
2020-04-03T16:32:44 < Luggi09> pretty retarded if you think you can save money that way
2020-04-03T16:32:50 < Luggi09> you'll just get more fakes
2020-04-03T16:33:12 < Mangy_Dog> wait no
2020-04-03T16:33:16 < Mangy_Dog> 3 dollars
2020-04-03T16:33:18 < Luggi09> and your time is probably more valuable than that if you aren't in a 3rd world country
2020-04-03T16:33:21 < Mangy_Dog> but goes down to 2 dollars after 30
2020-04-03T16:33:22 < englishman> STM32F103CBU6 10+ US$2.080909
2020-04-03T16:33:24 < Mangy_Dog> which isnt terrible
2020-04-03T16:33:33 < Luggi09> or go for gd32f103
2020-04-03T16:33:43 < englishman> maybe stm8 is more your price range
2020-04-03T16:33:59 < Luggi09> gd32 are also pretty nice if you want to save a bit
2020-04-03T16:34:06 < Luggi09> and you get a performance+ aswell
2020-04-03T16:34:16 < Mangy_Dog> no need to be facetious
2020-04-03T16:34:27 < Mangy_Dog> if thegd32 worked just like the chip
2020-04-03T16:34:37 < Mangy_Dog> then im not entierely against it. but all i know about it is, its a clone chip
2020-04-03T16:34:40 < Mangy_Dog> no idea how good it is
2020-04-03T16:34:45 < Luggi09> Mangy_Dog: there are slight differences, but those are documented
2020-04-03T16:34:58 < Luggi09> it's good from what i've tested
2020-04-03T16:35:25 < Luggi09> definetly better than having fakes or shady copies ;)
2020-04-03T16:35:34 < Mangy_Dog> though strange why is the qfn chip cheaper than the qfp?
2020-04-03T16:35:42 < Mangy_Dog> id thought it be the other way round
2020-04-03T16:35:57 < Mangy_Dog> thats fair luggi
2020-04-03T16:36:29 < Mangy_Dog> oh wow
2020-04-03T16:36:30 < Luggi09> i also talked to the gd32 reps
2020-04-03T16:36:32 < Mangy_Dog> must be corona
2020-04-03T16:36:39 < Mangy_Dog> the t6 is out of stock on lcsc
2020-04-03T16:36:44 < Luggi09> they seem pretty reputable and also sell like millions of chips
2020-04-03T16:36:52 < Mangy_Dog> and the u6 only has 59 chips
2020-04-03T16:36:56 < Luggi09> gained a lot of traction the last years
2020-04-03T16:37:09 < englishman> lux, the gd32 rep here never got back to me :( must not need any new businesss
2020-04-03T16:37:28 < Luggi09> englishman: i think i still have some business cards here
2020-04-03T16:38:13 < Luggi09> the reps here even visited my failed startup and gave us devboards for free
2020-04-03T16:38:19 < Luggi09> really nice guys
2020-04-03T16:38:44 < Luggi09> though they earned 0 dollars with us
2020-04-03T16:39:00 < Luggi09> still got some devboards and chips lying around
2020-04-03T16:40:52 -!- Luggi09 is now known as lux
2020-04-03T16:41:49 < Mangy_Dog> so what slight differences are there?
2020-04-03T16:42:21 < Mangy_Dog> so cant just drop in the same boot loaders or compiled code?
2020-04-03T16:42:31 < Mangy_Dog> i regularly use rogerclarks core and not HAL
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2020-04-03T16:48:28 < jpa-> Mangy_Dog: why STM32F103 anyway when stm32f042 is much cheaper and has crystal-less usb etc?
2020-04-03T16:49:06 < Mangy_Dog> because i know the f103, its also suported with the various libaries i regularly use
2020-04-03T16:49:13 < Mangy_Dog> not to mention the core i use
2020-04-03T16:50:03 < Mangy_Dog> oh and that the other core is slower
2020-04-03T16:50:07 < Mangy_Dog> had to look itup
2020-04-03T16:50:18 < Mangy_Dog> and also max of 32KB of flash
2020-04-03T16:50:39 < Mangy_Dog> the 103 is a vastly superior chip
2020-04-03T16:51:17 < Mangy_Dog> the init and graphic init code for my embedded display board wouldnt even fit on the 042 lol
2020-04-03T16:54:26 < jpa-> yeah, everything varies of course
2020-04-03T16:54:50 < Steffanx> they upgrade to F072 not sure how expensive that one is though
2020-04-03T16:54:50 < Mangy_Dog> my whole situation with fake chips came about as i was trying to get the CB 128KB
2020-04-03T16:54:56 < Steffanx> *then
2020-04-03T16:55:11 < Mangy_Dog> tbh the C8 is likely enough with 64KB but for the dev kit i wanted the max out....
2020-04-03T16:55:27 < Steffanx> im not sure what jpa-'s price web page says about it
2020-04-03T16:55:36 < Mangy_Dog> but the "fake" rebadged what is likely the C6 at 32KB is no where near enough
2020-04-03T16:55:40 < Steffanx> lol its getting slooooooow
2020-04-03T16:56:05 < Steffanx> And its kinda useless now with so many families, hm
2020-04-03T16:56:17 < jpa-> Steffanx: yeah
2020-04-03T16:57:36 < Steffanx> needs checkboxes to disable families
2020-04-03T16:57:53 < Steffanx> but that would probably require javascript and javascript is bad i heard
2020-04-03T16:58:13 < Steffanx> ofcourse it wouldnt require it .. but meg
2020-04-03T17:02:21 < mawk> I measured my brand new 3100mAh 18650 liion batteries to be 2500mAh
2020-04-03T17:02:24 < mawk> something is shady
2020-04-03T17:02:30 < mawk> they only had 5 star reviews
2020-04-03T17:02:33 < mawk> you can't trust the chinese
2020-04-03T17:02:58 < Laurenceb> heh
2020-04-03T17:03:05 < Laurenceb> 3100mAh exists
2020-04-03T17:03:06 < jpa-> Steffanx: i think time has simply gone past that simple comparison
2020-04-03T17:03:09 < Laurenceb> but not from china
2020-04-03T17:03:36 < mawk> why not Laurenceb 
2020-04-03T17:04:24 < jpa-> china only makes 9999mAh
2020-04-03T17:05:25 < Laurenceb> lol
2020-04-03T17:05:42 < Laurenceb> mawk: because they are made by pro manufacturers who dont bullshit the figures
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2020-04-03T17:05:57 < Laurenceb> I hate Musk
2020-04-03T17:06:11 < Laurenceb> Panasonic cells were better than anything else but now only Musk can buy them
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2020-04-03T17:06:23 < qyx> ncr18650b?
2020-04-03T17:06:24 < specing> you can buy them, too
2020-04-03T17:06:35 < specing> but not the tesla chemistry
2020-04-03T17:06:55 < Laurenceb> yeah ncr18650b
2020-04-03T17:06:57 -!- Zilenc3 [~Zilenc3@ssvlon3939w-lp140-05-70-26-139-229.dsl.bell.ca] has joined ##stm32
2020-04-03T17:06:58 < Laurenceb> specing: where?
2020-04-03T17:07:08 < specing> Laurenceb: eu.nkon.nl
2020-04-03T17:07:25 < mawk> .nl
2020-04-03T17:07:27 < mawk> best tld
2020-04-03T17:07:38 < specing> why mawk ?
2020-04-03T17:08:35 < karlp> fucking gd32 isn't a fucking clone or fake, it's a genuine fucking product with manuals and documentation
2020-04-03T17:08:35 < mawk> because I support my country
2020-04-03T17:08:42 < karlp> fucking f103 pill munchers
2020-04-03T17:08:44 < mawk> I don't want geert wilders from the pvv to behead me
2020-04-03T17:08:51 < Laurenceb> oh wow nice specing
2020-04-03T17:09:07  * karlp has batts from nkon.nl. can reccomend
2020-04-03T17:09:09 < mawk> I need high peak discharge current
2020-04-03T17:09:13 < Laurenceb> not sure where they go them...
2020-04-03T17:09:17 < karlp> vaper much mawk ? ;)
2020-04-03T17:09:20 < mawk> lol
2020-04-03T17:09:22 < mawk> yes
2020-04-03T17:09:22 < Mangy_Dog> nothing wrong with it being a legit identical product
2020-04-03T17:09:22 < Laurenceb> >stolen from Tesla factory
2020-04-03T17:09:27 < Mangy_Dog> as long as it works
2020-04-03T17:09:31 < Mangy_Dog> the same
2020-04-03T17:10:52 < englishman> karlp: lol
2020-04-03T17:11:11 < Steffanx> i wouldnt trust the dutch
2020-04-03T17:11:33 < mawk> You're not a good dutch Steffanx 
2020-04-03T17:11:46 < Steffanx> im not a good human
2020-04-03T17:11:47 < mawk> you should have nl flag tshirts
2020-04-03T17:12:37 < Steffanx> Did you rotate yours 90 degrees?
2020-04-03T17:13:36 < Laurenceb> nice, looks like lithium ion is up to ~0.95MJ/kg
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2020-04-03T17:15:46 < zyp> these led matrices are consuming quite some power
2020-04-03T17:16:07 < zyp> of course I had to pick up one when I were ordering led matrix driver boards
2020-04-03T17:16:12 < zyp> https://bin.jvnv.net/file/or7vC.mp4
2020-04-03T17:17:50 < specing> Laurenceb: close to 300 Wh/kg, i.e. 1.05 MJ/kg
2020-04-03T17:17:50 < Laurenceb> and $200/kwh
2020-04-03T17:19:08 < zyp> I'm only keeping global OE at like 1/8th duty, and the color pattern has every led 50% on, so this is 1/16th of full white max brightness
2020-04-03T17:19:13 < zyp> and it's still consuming 1.4A
2020-04-03T17:19:16 < Steffanx> :)
2020-04-03T17:19:27 < Steffanx> dont let specing hear this
2020-04-03T17:19:57 < zyp> or, to be fair, this includes the static draw of both the matrix electronics and the fpga board
2020-04-03T17:20:07 < Laurenceb> specing: I got 0.95 from that candlepower forum
2020-04-03T17:20:15 < mawk> Steffanx https://i.imgur.com/0eKFyB9r.jpg
2020-04-03T17:20:18 < Laurenceb> their test data
2020-04-03T17:20:29 < zyp> actual led draw is closer to 1A in that case
2020-04-03T17:20:34 < Laurenceb> can probably hit 1MJ/kg at low current
2020-04-03T17:21:13 < Steffanx> I wonder what kind of drawings you make now, mawk.
2020-04-03T17:21:48 < mawk> I don't draw, why ?
2020-04-03T17:22:17 < Steffanx> The small model/doll is an interesting position.
2020-04-03T17:23:18 < zyp> some back of the napkin numbers; let's call it 6W max for this matrix, that's about 200W/m2
2020-04-03T17:23:36 < zyp> typical underfloor heating is 60W/m2 to put it in perspective
2020-04-03T17:24:34 < zyp> then again, 200W of LEDs are also a shitton of light
2020-04-03T17:24:44 < mawk> ah yes, I have another miniature one as well; it's my gf's
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2020-04-03T17:27:05 < emeb> zyp: nice.
2020-04-03T17:27:57 < emeb> waiting for a chromecast emulator -> LED matrix FPGA design.
2020-04-03T17:28:17 < zyp> heh :)
2020-04-03T17:28:45 < emeb> how many of the LED boards can one FPGA board drive?
2020-04-03T17:29:22 < srk> zillions
2020-04-03T17:29:24 < zyp> depends on the update rate you want
2020-04-03T17:29:59 < emeb> ah, so it's not simply a matter of how many connectors there are...
2020-04-03T17:30:07 < zyp> there's 8 outputs and then the matrices can be chained as well
2020-04-03T17:30:13 < emeb> ic
2020-04-03T17:30:14 < zyp> they are just shift registers
2020-04-03T17:31:50 < zyp> each connector has six data lines, five row selects, data clock, data latch and global output enable
2020-04-03T17:33:24 < zyp> five row selects gives you 1/32 multiplex, six data lines then gives you 2x32 rows of rgb
2020-04-03T17:34:09 < emeb> and then you can just string as many LED boards together in a chain as you want.
2020-04-03T17:34:24 < zyp> this is a 64x128 matrix, so it has six 128-bit long shift registers
2020-04-03T17:34:36 < zyp> and input/output connectors for chaining, yes
2020-04-03T17:35:04 < emeb> any idea what the max clock rate the shift registers support?
2020-04-03T17:35:25 < emeb> I assume that signal integrity for long chains would cut the rate down...
2020-04-03T17:35:38 < zyp> the limiting factor is how fast you can feed the shift registers vs how fast you need to scan the rows to get brightness resolution
2020-04-03T17:35:45 < emeb> yup
2020-04-03T17:36:14 < zyp> dunno, I think I saw some figures on the order of 50MHz yesterday, but that wasn't for this matrix in particular
2020-04-03T17:37:00 < jpa-> i wonder how much EMI they give off
2020-04-03T17:37:24 < zyp> for actual video walls, I have the impression that they don't bother with much chaining
2020-04-03T17:37:24 < emeb> I remember seeing a "Mike's Electric Stuff" video a few years ago (and it was old at the time) that detailed a lot of the PWM tricks they use in these arrays.
2020-04-03T17:38:14 < emeb> There's a lot of crazy optimization that they do. A few "of course, why didn't I think of that" moments.
2020-04-03T17:38:18 < zyp> this matrix is 128x256mm, and apparently they are usually packed 8 into a 512x512mm enclosure along with power supply and receiver card
2020-04-03T17:38:35 < zyp> and when the receiver card also has 8 outputs, no chaining is needed
2020-04-03T17:38:51 < zyp> hehe
2020-04-03T17:40:17 < zyp> my reaction to this stuff is how similar it is to the led matrix board I made myself like ten years ago
2020-04-03T17:41:45 < zyp> https://bin.jvnv.net/file/ldMgR.JPG <- this thing
2020-04-03T17:41:59 < emeb> I remember that.
2020-04-03T17:42:59 < emeb> IIRC dongs did an 8x8 color matrix board w/ STM32F1xx on it at about the same time. 
2020-04-03T17:43:13 < zyp> the main difference is that I don't use an address decoder to select row, I use another shift register clocked by the strobe for the main shift register
2020-04-03T17:44:31 < emeb> that cuts down on complicated wiring
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2020-04-03T17:45:38 < emeb> I still have a bunch of those dongs boards here somewhere. built a couple up but only ever got a few things on the display.
2020-04-03T17:45:57 < emeb> used some weird driver chips
2020-04-03T17:54:40 < catphish> yay my F4 ethernet nucleo has arrived :)
2020-04-03T17:54:54 < Steffanx>  \o/
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2020-04-03T18:04:52 < emeb> current foolishness is an ST7789 LCD driven by an STM32F042F6 with 3 chls of touch sense. Code size w/ -0s is about 11kB. Tried turning on -flto and that scrunched it down to ~7kB but the touchsense event logic stopped working.
2020-04-03T18:05:18 < emeb> adding a printf() into the handler logic made it work again. 
2020-04-03T18:05:25 < emeb> LTO is so damned mysterious.
2020-04-03T18:07:50 < kakimir> how does this result +vtarget becoming +3v3 in layout? https://drive.google.com/file/d/1zHNBKcD2bOfEkDz1lPD_VYau2oQz2h6m/view?usp=sharing
2020-04-03T18:08:58 < jadew> if we take the numbers from that document I linked yesterday and assume they're real for the rest of the world too, not just for europe, then based on the current number of infections, we can expect between 3 million and 18 million deaths within the next month
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2020-04-03T18:10:50 < jadew> my trend thing says 400-500k
2020-04-03T18:11:07 < kakimir> so hidden power pins automatically bind to net name
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2020-04-03T18:15:30 < dongs> what the fuck
2020-04-03T18:15:45 < dongs> i imported u8g2 into keil and while it builds, it needs like 130k of ram
2020-04-03T18:16:03 < dongs> i thought this shit ran on retarduino
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2020-04-03T18:16:30 < dongs> 482 unused section(s) (total 11101877 bytes) removed from the image.
2020-04-03T18:16:40 < dongs> tcth_: arent you expert on this opensores shit
2020-04-03T18:22:49 < Laurenceb> https://forum.nasaspaceflight.com/assets/50453.0/1623676.jpg
2020-04-03T18:23:10 < Laurenceb> >what, the fuel goes _into_ the rocket?
2020-04-03T18:31:38 < Laurenceb> cough on the thots
2020-04-03T18:32:37 < jpa-> dongs: lol, did you link *all* the files into it?
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2020-04-03T18:36:00 < dongs> jpa-: they are all linked, but they all get removed anytway
2020-04-03T18:36:58 < dongs> Error: L6407E: Sections of aggregate size 0x20b30 bytes could not fit into .ANY selector(s).
2020-04-03T18:37:08 < dongs> that doesnt make sense
2020-04-03T18:37:14 < dongs> its a 512kb F401RE
2020-04-03T18:37:19 < dongs> with like 80k ram or someshit
2020-04-03T18:38:34 < dongs> O3 or O0 doesnt make any difference so i cant actually figure out WHAT takes up all teh sapce
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2020-04-03T18:43:13 < dongs> this makes no fucking sense
2020-04-03T18:43:13 < dongs> damn
2020-04-03T18:47:24 < dongs> 12          4          0          0     132728          0   u8g2_d_memory.o
2020-04-03T18:47:31 < dongs> ok found the culprit now to see why the fuck its doing this
2020-04-03T18:47:42 < dongs> i bet this is some gccism
2020-04-03T18:48:08 < dongs> yep, i see why it would do that
2020-04-03T18:48:22 < dongs> http://bcas.tv/paste/results/F6w0Mb36.html
2020-04-03T18:48:26 < dongs> it has about 1000 functions like this
2020-04-03T18:48:32 < dongs> for different allocators
2020-04-03T18:49:51 < c10ud> nice
2020-04-03T18:50:19 < Laurenceb> looks arduino tier
2020-04-03T18:50:49 < Laurenceb> static uint8_t buf[256];
2020-04-03T18:50:50 < Laurenceb> wut
2020-04-03T18:51:09 < Laurenceb> ram eater library
2020-04-03T18:51:13 < dongs> Program Size: Code=3596 RO-data=972 RW-data=52 ZI-data=6772  
2020-04-03T18:51:14 < dongs> nice
2020-04-03T18:51:25 < dongs> no, its them depending on gcc erasing those unused sections
2020-04-03T18:52:16 < Laurenceb> ah
2020-04-03T18:55:17 < emeb> and keil doesn't work the same?
2020-04-03T18:56:07 < dongs> it put all those static buf[]s into ZI
2020-04-03T18:56:29 < dongs> i mean this code is obviously utter shit
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2020-04-03T19:25:30 < dongs> ok, everything is working
2020-04-03T19:25:33 < dongs> including partial refresh on epaper
2020-04-03T19:25:35 < dongs> very nice
2020-04-03T19:26:06 < dongs> for being shtity opensores stuff, this is not bad
2020-04-03T19:31:26 -!- Netsplit *.net <-> *.split quits: Simon--
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2020-04-03T19:36:23 < Steffanx> yw
2020-04-03T19:45:22 < catphish> https://i.imgur.com/gahfcHu.jpg :)
2020-04-03T19:46:48 < Ultrasauce> arduino headers
2020-04-03T19:47:00 < catphish> that seems to be all we're allowed now
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2020-04-03T19:47:16 < Steffanx> Just have it upside down and be happy with the pins on the other side :P
2020-04-03T19:47:19 < dongs> catphish: i ahve all of those
2020-04-03T19:47:25 < dongs> err all=one
2020-04-03T19:47:40 < catphish> but actually, for this project, arduino header will be plenty
2020-04-03T19:47:57 < catphish> it only needs a mosfet, a UART and a couple of LEDs
2020-04-03T19:48:09 < boddax> just irdered hantek 4032L from Banggut ..someone own this alredy?
2020-04-03T19:50:06 < catphish> as i was saying last night, the world's biggest waste of a 100 pin MCU https://nutty.tk/ethernet.pdf
2020-04-03T19:50:11 < Cracki> you see those unpop pads beside the arduino header?
2020-04-03T19:50:37 < Cracki> break them out, use them for blinkenlights
2020-04-03T19:50:40 < Laurenceb> holy shit
2020-04-03T19:50:41 < Laurenceb> https://t.co/x0n0Mu0G2o
2020-04-03T19:50:45 < Laurenceb> how many authors
2020-04-03T19:50:55 < Laurenceb> I thought crapillary was bad
2020-04-03T19:51:11 < Steffanx> tomeaton17 dad is in the list too
2020-04-03T19:51:16 < Cracki> it is 35 pages and lots of data
2020-04-03T19:51:17 < Laurenceb>  "pleasey pleasey please can I be on the list of authors"
2020-04-03T19:51:30 < Steffanx> Gary Niger isnt even in the list
2020-04-03T19:51:36 < catphish> wow the UK was late to the party
2020-04-03T19:51:43 < Cracki> give me an abstract of their summary
2020-04-03T19:51:45 < Laurenceb> >Jeffrey W Eaton
2020-04-03T19:51:58 < Laurenceb> CIA tracing intensifies
2020-04-03T19:52:45 < catphish> i have a 6022BE, it's garbage
2020-04-03T19:53:07 < Steffanx> why catphish
2020-04-03T19:53:38 < boddax> yes i avoid to buy that catphish
2020-04-03T19:53:52 < boddax> internal cheaper hw
2020-04-03T19:54:11 < catphish> Steffanx: inputs limited to 5v, and the software is just awful, i think it's supported by some open source software now, but the triggering has never worked properly for me
2020-04-03T19:54:29 < catphish> hard to pin it down, it's just shit
2020-04-03T19:54:43 < boddax> 4032L support almost all signals
2020-04-03T19:55:06 < boddax> Compatible inputs: TTL, LVTTL, CMOS, LVCOMS, ECL, PECL, EIA
2020-04-03T19:55:08 < catphish> i should buy a proper scope soon
2020-04-03T19:55:16 < catphish> what's  hobby scope of choice these days?
2020-04-03T19:55:19 < boddax> sure is only LA no scope like your
2020-04-03T19:55:44 < boddax> rodhe schwaz
2020-04-03T19:55:46 < catphish> for a LA, i just use one of those $5 USB ones, works amazingly
2020-04-03T19:55:57 < srk> these unlockable Rigols
2020-04-03T19:56:02 < boddax> yup but only 8 channel
2020-04-03T19:56:18 < catphish> yeah 8 chanels is enough for me, but could be a problem
2020-04-03T19:56:48 < boddax> sigrok very nice sw
2020-04-03T19:56:53 < Laurenceb>  "so, I hear ur writing a paper, it would be a shame if something bad were to happen to you because you didnt add me to the list of authors"
2020-04-03T19:56:55 < catphish> yeah i use sigrok
2020-04-03T19:57:00 < catphish> everyone used to recommand the DS1054Z, but i think there's one slightly better now
2020-04-03T19:57:10 < specing> > This item does not appear to have any files that can be experienced on Archive.org. 
2020-04-03T19:57:12 < boddax> decoding lots protocols
2020-04-03T19:57:15 < specing> > experienced
2020-04-03T19:57:19 < boddax> even old mcu
2020-04-03T19:57:32 < specing> catphish: siglent 1104x-e?
2020-04-03T19:57:41 < boddax> i have an riglol 1054
2020-04-03T19:57:50 < catphish> SDS1104X-E - yes
2020-04-03T19:57:59 < specing> Has anyone hacked it so far?
2020-04-03T19:58:26 < specing> and by hacked I don't mean unlocked- that's easy. I mean loaded custom Linux on it
2020-04-03T19:58:26 < Steffanx> me
2020-04-03T19:58:31 < specing> and played with its FPGA
2020-04-03T19:58:33 < Steffanx> no
2020-04-03T19:58:37 < Steffanx> thats no fun
2020-04-03T19:58:59 < Steffanx> im not buying a scope to turn it into some crippled lunix thingy
2020-04-03T19:59:08 < specing> dude
2020-04-03T19:59:14 < specing> it IS running Linux by default
2020-04-03T19:59:19 < Steffanx> more crippled ;)
2020-04-03T19:59:22 < boddax> what kind of linux dustro? deblol?
2020-04-03T19:59:22 < specing> lol
2020-04-03T19:59:32 < Steffanx> no distro
2020-04-03T19:59:33 < specing> boddax: something very embedded, basically busybox
2020-04-03T19:59:45 < specing> you can look into its OS update files
2020-04-03T19:59:55 < specing> Though it has no bitfiles or siglent binary in there
2020-04-03T19:59:58 < Steffanx> i would just buy a zynq dev board when i wanted to play with lunix and fpga
2020-04-03T20:00:01 < specing> that must be in a separate file
2020-04-03T20:00:20 < specing> Steffanx: ds1054+zynq board price gives me 1104x-e that does both
2020-04-03T20:01:03 < boddax> problem with 1054z is the main knob he doing what he want
2020-04-03T20:01:47 < Steffanx> Yes sure specing, but again.. i wouldnt use my scope for experiments like that
2020-04-03T20:02:58 < Steffanx> i recall the boot log even shows what dev board siglent used
2020-04-03T20:03:59 < specing> Steffanx:can you dump the siglent binary and bitstream from yours? I.e. can you access that?
2020-04-03T20:07:35 < Steffanx> i dont know how the PL is loaded. but the application can be accessed for sure. Anyway, if i can do it, then someone has done it already for sure.
2020-04-03T20:08:27 < catphish> the SDS1104X-E is definitely the winner, integrated ethernet!
2020-04-03T20:08:58 < Steffanx> and when you buy the sdg2042x as well, you can have to do a party together
2020-04-03T20:09:42 < Steffanx> (you can use the scope to control the function generator to do some measurements)
2020-04-03T20:10:00 < Steffanx> nothing too fancy though
2020-04-03T20:10:05 < catphish> nice try siglent salesman
2020-04-03T20:10:11 < catphish> but that doubles the price :)
2020-04-03T20:10:16 < Steffanx> haha i know
2020-04-03T20:10:31 < catphish> cool thing to be able to add in the future though
2020-04-03T20:10:33 < Steffanx> but buy a 40MHz version now and get a free upgrade to 120MHz!
2020-04-03T20:10:48 < catphish> £450 for the scope is cool though
2020-04-03T20:11:00 < Steffanx> unless they patched that in the mean time
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2020-04-03T20:15:06 < specing> Steffanx: the pl must be loaded from the processing system, I saw the .ko for it
2020-04-03T20:17:33 < dongs> welp i think its time to open a bug report lol
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2020-04-03T20:41:09 < tomeaton17> Steffanx: haha close to his actual name
2020-04-03T20:41:50 < Steffanx> lol
2020-04-03T20:45:24 < mawk> one of the colleagues was on Teams while driving his car
2020-04-03T20:45:33 < mawk> but he didn't crashed live
2020-04-03T20:47:28 < Steffanx> uh what?
2020-04-03T20:47:57 < mawk> doing live video
2020-04-03T20:48:03 < mawk> and talking; while driving
2020-04-03T20:48:08 < Steffanx> its "handfree" ofcourse, but i bet he was totally distracted
2020-04-03T20:48:30 < mawk> he was holding the phone with one hand
2020-04-03T20:48:51 < mawk> sometimes looking at the road
2020-04-03T20:49:07 < Steffanx> I would've stopped the meeting. :P
2020-04-03T20:51:40 < Steffanx> Or i would at least leave the meeting, with a note i wasnt going to talk to someone with his phone in hand while driving and talking.
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2020-04-03T21:05:38 < Laurenceb> chinese cricket: one bat and everyone dies
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2020-04-03T21:24:11 < qyx> boddax: hush deblol
2020-04-03T21:31:39 < PaulFertser> mawk: you make it sound like he did crash later
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2020-04-03T21:33:34 < Steffanx> the guy should get fired :P
2020-04-03T21:36:15 < bitmask> you should get fired
2020-04-03T21:36:23 < bitmask> sorry, that was mean, I didn't mean it
2020-04-03T21:36:34 < bitmask> please forgive me
2020-04-03T21:36:45 < Steffanx> no, i dont drive while having my phone to have a Teams meeting.
2020-04-03T21:37:09 < bitmask> i just joined, didnt have any idea what you were talking about
2020-04-03T21:37:17 < bitmask> but yea thats a good point
2020-04-03T21:37:30 < bitmask> buy me some phosphoric acid please
2020-04-03T21:37:34 < Steffanx> ok
2020-04-03T21:37:45 < bitmask> thanks
2020-04-03T21:40:22 < kakimir> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZpXnEvW0XD0&feature=youtu.be&t=1260
2020-04-03T21:40:23 < bitmask> ohhh shit
2020-04-03T21:40:28 < bitmask> is ito expensive
2020-04-03T21:40:37 < bitmask> can you just buy it?
2020-04-03T21:42:07 < Steffanx> whats the plan with it?
2020-04-03T21:43:27 < bitmask> oh, its only $500 for 75mm diameter / 6mm height disc of it
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2020-04-03T21:44:01 < bitmask> coat things in it to copper plate, since its transparent it would look better than black paint
2020-04-03T21:44:04 < bitmask> totally worth it :P
2020-04-03T21:45:47 < bitmask> just need a sputtering setup
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2020-04-03T22:37:44 < Laurenceb> womxn are the real victims of corona-chan
2020-04-03T22:38:26 < kakimir> womxn?
2020-04-03T22:39:04 < Laurenceb> yeah
2020-04-03T22:39:13 < Laurenceb> and attack helicopters
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2020-04-03T22:41:27 < Steffanx> no the real victims are in ##stm32. Non-stop coronacrap.
2020-04-03T22:41:36 < Laurenceb> heh good point
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2020-04-03T22:41:58 < Laurenceb> >implying any of us were going to leave the basement normally
2020-04-03T22:42:54 < kakimir> I miss basement
2020-04-03T22:43:02 < kakimir> basement is the ideal environment
2020-04-03T22:43:17 < kakimir> all above terrain is shit
2020-04-03T22:43:40 < kakimir> only massive stone building or clay building above terrain would be sufficient
2020-04-03T22:43:55 < kakimir> basically simulating properties of basement
2020-04-03T22:43:59 < kakimir> *emulating
2020-04-03T22:45:54 < srk> heh, same
2020-04-03T22:46:30 < Steffanx> no, i prefer some sunlight in my room kakimir
2020-04-03T22:46:56 < kakimir> partially underground then
2020-04-03T22:47:12 < kakimir> half meter above terrain and the rest under terrain
2020-04-03T22:49:33 < qyx> I hate <n> shortcut in kicad
2020-04-03T22:49:37 < qyx> too close to <m>
2020-04-03T22:50:02 < qyx> I want fixed grid size
2020-04-03T22:53:01 < BrainDamage> qyx: preferences ->hotkeys
2020-04-03T22:53:44 < BrainDamage> just rebind to a ctrl shift whatever, no accidedntal change
2020-04-03T22:56:57 < qyx> I did
2020-04-03T22:57:03 < qyx> I was UNABLE to delete i
2020-04-03T22:57:05 < qyx> it
2020-04-03T22:59:35 < BrainDamage> here works fine
2020-04-03T22:59:43 < BrainDamage> just tested
2020-04-03T23:00:01 < BrainDamage> v 5.1.5
2020-04-03T23:06:29 < qyx> how did you delete a shortcut?
2020-04-03T23:06:48 < qyx> I tried backspace, reset, defaults, delete, esc, whatever
2020-04-03T23:06:55 < qyx> context menu
2020-04-03T23:07:07 < qyx> s/did/do
2020-04-03T23:10:59 < kakimir> do I want a comparator for +vtarget?
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2020-04-03T23:15:59 < kakimir> yes
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--- Day changed Sat Apr 04 2020
2020-04-04T00:11:23 -!- con3 [~con3@165.255.54.59] has quit [Quit: Leaving]
2020-04-04T00:16:32 < Laurenceb> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wdaNX7RDJEE
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2020-04-04T00:29:42 < Cracki> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YRWSuRlq_M8
2020-04-04T00:29:45 < Laurenceb> recreational self-immolation
2020-04-04T00:34:27 < aandrew> that's a hell of a hobby
2020-04-04T00:35:18 < mawk> Steffanx: what is exactly in the roomboter shit ?
2020-04-04T00:35:23 < mawk> it's not butter right
2020-04-04T00:35:26 < mawk> it's fake dutch butter
2020-04-04T00:36:28 < Cracki> why is it fake
2020-04-04T00:37:33 < Cracki> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eZDbBq2X4JM
2020-04-04T00:38:42 < mawk> because I tried to cook with it
2020-04-04T00:38:45 < mawk> and it splashes everywhere
2020-04-04T00:38:52 < mawk> probably full of water
2020-04-04T00:38:57 < Cracki> hmm
2020-04-04T00:39:11 < Cracki> translation says the word means literally butter
2020-04-04T00:39:32 < mawk> a
2020-04-04T00:39:33 < Cracki> maybe you got something that has some footnotes
2020-04-04T00:39:38 < mawk> but "boter" is already butter
2020-04-04T00:39:42 < mawk> and "room" is cream
2020-04-04T00:39:46 < mawk> it's something more than boter
2020-04-04T00:39:49 < mawk> it's fakeboter
2020-04-04T00:39:50 < Cracki> wiktionary says they add room to differentiate from margarine
2020-04-04T00:39:55 < mawk> a
2020-04-04T00:40:05 < mawk> I bought low quality roomboter then
2020-04-04T00:40:41 < mawk> I'm playing super metroifd
2020-04-04T00:40:43 < mawk> metroid*
2020-04-04T00:40:45 < mawk> on SNES
2020-04-04T00:41:15 < mawk> this game is like a movie
2020-04-04T00:41:26 < mawk> they also got inspiration from h giger, the alien scenography guy
2020-04-04T00:44:22 < Steffanx> It's real boter 
2020-04-04T00:45:06 < Laurenceb> >alien
2020-04-04T00:45:15 < Laurenceb> the same movie a bazillion times
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2020-04-04T00:48:45 < Steffanx> Could be roomboter has more water in it, mawk
2020-04-04T00:49:56 < Steffanx> What did you buy? Was it semi-solid or not?
2020-04-04T00:51:31 -!- renn0xtk9 [~max@2a02:810d:1540:61b8:1c9e:c92e:f8d0:6150] has quit [Quit: Konversation terminated!]
2020-04-04T00:53:55 < Steffanx> Usually what we call boter in dutchland (especially when talking about the stuff we put on bread) is fake boter, mawk
2020-04-04T00:54:47 < mawk> a
2020-04-04T00:54:49 < mawk> yes solid
2020-04-04T00:54:56 < mawk> like french butter
2020-04-04T00:55:11 < Steffanx> Idk french butter :P
2020-04-04T00:55:19 < mawk> french butter = real butter
2020-04-04T00:55:21 < mawk> obviously
2020-04-04T01:07:49 < PaulFertser> The one they use for butt sex
2020-04-04T01:09:19 < PaulFertser> (I mentioned that film yesterday)
2020-04-04T01:10:01 < Cracki> watched the scene. was lulzy
2020-04-04T01:10:26 < Cracki> all that french architecture tho... lovely
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2020-04-04T01:29:52 < mawk> which film
2020-04-04T01:31:51 < PaulFertser> mawk: obv https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Last_Tango_in_Paris
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2020-04-04T02:59:16 < Cracki> he butters her up and slips the hotdog in the bun
2020-04-04T02:59:43 < Cracki> obviously not really. it's still a movie.
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2020-04-04T03:14:44 < ds2> uh... err...
2020-04-04T03:15:46 < jly> gooday fokes
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2020-04-04T03:38:55 < kakimir> where aer you from jly?
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2020-04-04T03:43:11 < Laurenceb> SEVEN!!
2020-04-04T03:44:09 < Laurenceb> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JB2di69FmhE
2020-04-04T03:44:15 < Laurenceb> kickstarter predicted
2020-04-04T03:49:44 < kakimir> movie recommd Laurenceb
2020-04-04T03:50:02 < Laurenceb> 2001
2020-04-04T03:50:14 < kakimir> yes
2020-04-04T03:50:17 < kakimir> but no
2020-04-04T03:59:42 < Thorn> https://twitter.com/ThingsWork/status/1246150462073536512
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2020-04-04T04:09:07 < Cracki> lol
2020-04-04T04:09:31 < Cracki> they are killing the economy and nobody gets hanged over it
2020-04-04T04:11:04 < Cracki> buy rope now before the hamstering begins. there will be lots of hangings.
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2020-04-04T04:18:16 < emeb_mac> haha
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2020-04-04T04:37:46 < Cracki> practice your nooses!
2020-04-04T04:38:05 < Cracki> in the post apocalyptic world, women will swoon over your bondage skills
2020-04-04T04:38:51 < Cracki> invest in dogs, train them well, they will keep your harem from running off
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2020-04-04T04:52:41 < Cracki> so... 5% of daily deaths nationwide have coronavirus "involved". that means 5% of the population have it.
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2020-04-04T05:16:01 < Cracki> https://youtu.be/36lcpO-uIFw?t=113
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2020-04-04T10:09:10 < Thorn> cats infected with CoV https://www.biorxiv.org/content/10.1101/2020.04.01.021196v1
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2020-04-04T10:24:59 < jly> cool
2020-04-04T10:25:12 < jpa-> hmph, when using ADC in JAUTO mode, for some reason first injected conversion is always ~1500, the later conversions work ok
2020-04-04T10:25:14 < jly> maybe chinese ppl will stop eating them
2020-04-04T10:26:40 < jpa-> and by always, i mean sometimes
2020-04-04T10:34:46 < zyp> the best kind of always
2020-04-04T10:51:38 < jpa-> aha, "When the DMA is used for exporting regular sequencer’s data in JAUTO mode, it is necessary to program it in circular mode (CIRC bit set in DMA_CCRx register). If the CIRC bit is reset (single-shot mode), the JAUTO sequence will be stopped upon DMA Transfer Complete event."
2020-04-04T10:52:25 < jpa-> it seems that adc is not producing correct results when it is stopped in middle of conversion
2020-04-04T10:53:21 < zyp> so effectively you got a race condition?
2020-04-04T10:55:26 < jpa-> yeah, i was running regular conversions to DMA, and every time one complete dma buffer got full it corrupted the next injected conversion
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2020-04-04T11:12:04 < dongs> https://github.com/olikraus/u8g2/blob/master/csrc/u8g2_d_memory.c
2020-04-04T11:12:06 < dongs> C pros
2020-04-04T11:12:13 < dongs> how would ytou do this without depending on gcc
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2020-04-04T11:13:33 < zyp> are only one of those functions ever used?
2020-04-04T11:13:39 < dongs> like 3 of them yes
2020-04-04T11:13:57 < dongs> but armcc goes ahead and sticks ALL those static buf[]s in bss/ZI
2020-04-04T11:14:01 < dongs> which is like 128k
2020-04-04T11:14:04 < dongs> and never optimizes them out
2020-04-04T11:14:06 < dongs> even in O3
2020-04-04T11:14:26 < dongs> the _1 _2 _f of any group are the only ones used
2020-04-04T11:14:30 < zyp> I thought armcc was supposed to be good
2020-04-04T11:14:34 < dongs> it is
2020-04-04T11:14:40 < dongs> this is clearly infinitely dumb code
2020-04-04T11:14:51 < dongs> garbage in, garbage out :p
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2020-04-04T11:15:25 < zyp> idk, having unused code in a third party lib isn't all that uncommon, it shouldn't keep anything it doesn't need
2020-04-04T11:15:42 < Thorn> even gcc knows how to throw away unused arrays, especially with local scope
2020-04-04T11:15:54 < zyp> it's not global scope
2020-04-04T11:16:13 < zyp> they are static function vars, i.e. globals namespaced to each function
2020-04-04T11:16:23 < dongs> https://github.com/olikraus/u8g2/issues/356#issuecomment-342252797
2020-04-04T11:16:27 < dongs> found guy complaining about same shit
2020-04-04T11:16:37 < dongs> zyp, but they end up in global anyway
2020-04-04T11:16:51 < dongs> because they're static
2020-04-04T11:17:17 < zyp> that's what I said
2020-04-04T11:17:39 < jpa-> even on gcc, that could require -fdata-sections, which has its performance penalties
2020-04-04T11:17:58 < dongs> surely there has to be a better way
2020-04-04T11:18:14 < zyp> jpa-, what performance penalties?
2020-04-04T11:18:42 < zyp> and yes, it does require -ffunction-sections, -fdata-sections and -Wl,--gc-sections
2020-04-04T11:18:52 < jpa-> zyp: -fdata-sections causes every global / static variable to go in its own section, so accesses to them have to go through separate pointers instead of indexing a single pointer
2020-04-04T11:18:53 < Thorn> why did they need to autogenerate 1000 functions like that anyway?
2020-04-04T11:19:07 < Thorn> couldn't they use templates or something?
2020-04-04T11:19:17 < dongs> Thorn this is *c* interface
2020-04-04T11:19:23 < dongs> fuckplates not applicable
2020-04-04T11:19:26 < Thorn> move to c++
2020-04-04T11:19:29 < dongs> yea no
2020-04-04T11:19:29 < zyp> jpa-, ah, true
2020-04-04T11:19:34 < dongs> i like my compilations to be fast
2020-04-04T11:19:39 < dongs> and by compilers that arent shit
2020-04-04T11:19:46 < Thorn> lol so ditch armcc
2020-04-04T11:19:53 < zyp> jpa-, would you have a lot of related globals in one file without gathering them into a struct?
2020-04-04T11:20:41 < dongs> i wouldnt, shitty code would
2020-04-04T11:20:50 < zyp> dongs, have you tried LTO?
2020-04-04T11:20:57 < jpa-> zyp: yeah, sometimes
2020-04-04T11:21:03 < dongs> with this?
2020-04-04T11:21:07 < zyp> yes
2020-04-04T11:21:24 < zyp> LTO should also be able to see they are unused and throw them out
2020-04-04T11:22:01 < dongs> nope
2020-04-04T11:22:08 < dongs> Error: L6407E: Sections of aggregate size 0x20b30 bytes could not fit into .ANY selector(s).
2020-04-04T11:22:57 < jpa-> have you tried if armcc supports -fdata-sections? some googling seems like it might
2020-04-04T11:23:39 < zyp> needs -ffunction-sections also
2020-04-04T11:24:00 < zyp> otherwise function will exist and reference the buffer even if it's not called
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2020-04-04T11:25:05 < dongs> armclang  chokes on old F4 CMSIS
2020-04-04T11:25:19 < dongs>   __ASM volatile ("VMSR fpscr, %0" : : "r" (fpscr) : "vfpcc");
2020-04-04T11:26:06 < dongs> ok armclang does same thing as gcc
2020-04-04T11:26:08 < dongs> without any special options
2020-04-04T11:34:24 < dongs> jpa-: where do you see this ,i am not seeing any options like that in armcc
2020-04-04T11:47:34 < jpa-> i'm probably confusing with armclang
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2020-04-04T12:47:11 < antto> u8g2_d_memory.c <- wat teh akchual fugg is that
2020-04-04T12:57:03 < Steffanx> Magic C
2020-04-04T12:58:28 < antto> what does it do?
2020-04-04T12:58:47 < antto> 1.4k lines, it better do moar than my parser ;P~
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2020-04-04T15:06:00 < kakimir> https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/venezuelan-navy-ship-sinks-after-ramming-reinforced-cruise-liner-6t9wggf5d?shareToken=ca37638261afab40260258b1306cd10a
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2020-04-04T16:04:28 < zyp> ah, good, not just norwegian navy that's useless
2020-04-04T16:05:27 < invzim> gear time!  Just ordered a lecroy mercury t2c
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2020-04-04T16:19:43 < zyp> invzim, how much?
2020-04-04T16:22:57 < boddax> around 1500 eurobond i guess
2020-04-04T16:30:28 < zyp> hmm, sorry to rain on invzim's parade, but a beagle 480 and the pd analyzer from total phase looks like a better deal for the same functionality
2020-04-04T16:35:24 < kakimir> https://drive.google.com/file/d/1DxDlFRFwPvDL27jfVFxg56w1-EIJdZh-/view?usp=sharing progress
2020-04-04T16:36:21 < Steffanx> I've got the beagle with the simple voltage and current measurements. Damn that is so useless in the desktop tool
2020-04-04T16:36:42 < boddax> ah kakimir tought 3d sight
2020-04-04T16:37:16 < zyp> Steffanx, I mean this thing: https://www.totalphase.com/products/usb-power-delivery-analyzer/
2020-04-04T16:37:17 < Steffanx> My do you place components outside the pcb kakimir?
2020-04-04T16:37:33 < kakimir> yes
2020-04-04T16:37:41 < Steffanx> Yeah I understood that zyp. It was a random semi-relatdd statement
2020-04-04T16:38:00 < kakimir> it's a new quantum pcb technology
2020-04-04T16:38:39 < boddax> no need same lenght of traces?
2020-04-04T16:39:58 < kakimir> no
2020-04-04T16:40:47 < kakimir> there is like 2-3cm of skew
2020-04-04T16:40:51 < kakimir> who cares
2020-04-04T16:41:43 < kakimir> I don't even know how to match lengths of multiple signals in kicad
2020-04-04T16:41:52 < kakimir> maybe with ruler
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2020-04-04T16:44:10 < kakimir> and seriously if somebody knows how to match group of signals in kicad please tell me
2020-04-04T16:44:41 < kakimir> there are other things where a pile of signals are more skew critical
2020-04-04T16:48:50 < invzim> zyp: 10 772 nok from digikey, the 480 was quite a bit more expensive
2020-04-04T16:50:47 < invzim> 901 usd vs 1400 usd
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2020-04-04T16:52:42 < invzim> no, that's a lie, the C version is actually 1025usd - I went for that for 'future-proofing', no need as of today, but seemd a good idea to get the more recent version
2020-04-04T16:59:44 < PaulFertser> Shit, I thought France started to manage it but apparently it's just that the majority cases from the 2nd of Apr was recorded on 3rd :(
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2020-04-04T17:10:35 < zyp> invzim, I don't fully understand t2c pricing, looks like there's a ton of options you have to pay extra for
2020-04-04T17:10:46 < zyp> so what variant is that?
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2020-04-04T17:18:22 < antto> kakimir there's length tuning.. for single and for diffpair tracks
2020-04-04T17:18:48 < antto> why are you asking this in a channel where k*c*d is hated ;P~
2020-04-04T17:19:21 < kakimir> not really
2020-04-04T17:19:27 < kakimir> only dongs and me
2020-04-04T17:19:37 < antto> you hate it?
2020-04-04T17:19:48 < kakimir> not really
2020-04-04T17:19:53 < kakimir> but I shit on it casually
2020-04-04T17:19:59 < antto> >:(
2020-04-04T17:20:09 < antto> didn't i teach u bett0r
2020-04-04T17:23:51 < invzim> zyp: I got the t2c 'standard' which should be the same as the t2 - just different connectors
2020-04-04T17:24:03 < invzim> they got a t2c PD base modul without usb stuff
2020-04-04T17:24:17 < invzim> and a t2c 'advanced' which gives better triggering and API support
2020-04-04T17:24:23 < invzim> I think/hope
2020-04-04T17:25:20 < zyp> https://teledynelecroy.com/images/mercury_t2c_t2p_compare-2019.png
2020-04-04T17:25:32 < zyp> that one?
2020-04-04T17:25:36 < zyp> I mean, the second one?
2020-04-04T17:25:49 < invzim> yup
2020-04-04T17:26:09 < zyp> so it doesn't even include PD capture, just the USB?
2020-04-04T17:26:13 < invzim> yes
2020-04-04T17:27:07 < zyp> can you add that as an option, and for how much?
2020-04-04T17:27:10 < invzim> I'm kind of hoping that STUSB4500 will take care of stuff so I don't need to get into the nitty/gritty
2020-04-04T17:27:33 < invzim> quite a bit, think the standalone parts are a better deal than the sw upgrade
2020-04-04T17:28:20 < zyp> hmm
2020-04-04T17:28:43 < zyp> so okay, same features as a beagle then, just cheaper
2020-04-04T17:28:55 < zyp> wonder how the software is
2020-04-04T17:29:00 < zyp> beagle software is pretty good
2020-04-04T17:29:11 < invzim> 525 for PD upgrade, https://store.teledynelecroy.com/products/usb-mcpd-m02-a-mercury-t2c-add-power-delivery-to-either-usb-standard-or-advanced-analyzer-model
2020-04-04T17:29:39 < zyp> hah
2020-04-04T17:29:48 < invzim> if the beagle was cheaper, I probably would have gone for that
2020-04-04T17:30:19 < invzim> if the 12mbit wasn't crippled, it would be no contest
2020-04-04T17:31:25 < zyp> heh
2020-04-04T17:31:33 < zyp> are you only planning to look at FS?
2020-04-04T17:31:39 < invzim> sigrok does some usb, but I wanted a tool not a project
2020-04-04T17:33:46 < zyp> I wonder how the software situation for openvizsla is nowadays
2020-04-04T17:34:05 < Steffanx> lol
2020-04-04T17:34:10 < zyp> I got one somewhere, never tried it
2020-04-04T17:34:14 < Steffanx> openvizsla
2020-04-04T17:34:25 < zyp> IIRC it could be used with wireshark
2020-04-04T17:34:33 < englishman> invzim: stusb4500 is awesome
2020-04-04T17:35:09 < englishman> but instead of getting the Teledyne I got the cypress pd analyzer (didn't need usb2 capture)
2020-04-04T17:36:07 < englishman> we are using stusb4500 for the device and stusb4700 for the test bench :)
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2020-04-04T17:59:39 < zyp> hmm, this looks neat: https://shop.lambdaconcept.com/home/35-usb2-sniffer.html
2020-04-04T18:00:05 < zyp> pretty much a modern take on openvizsla
2020-04-04T18:00:30 < zyp> invzim, maybe you should have gotten that instead :)
2020-04-04T18:00:46 < boddax> very nice one zyp 
2020-04-04T18:01:56 < boddax> have also schematic?
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2020-04-04T18:03:22 < englishman> nice analyzer
2020-04-04T18:03:25 < boddax> https://github.com/lambdaconcept/usbsniffer
2020-04-04T18:04:33 < englishman> ft601 cool
2020-04-04T18:04:59 < zyp> boddax, doesn't seem to have a schematic, but the fpga io is defined here: https://github.com/lambdaconcept/usbsniffer/blob/master/usbsniffer.py#L38
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2020-04-04T18:27:10 < fenugrec> extended the workbench yesterday: https://linx.li/xzdrrsc6.jpg . Already feels cramped
2020-04-04T18:32:44 < boddax> what model that spectrum analyzer fenugrec ?
2020-04-04T18:32:56 < boddax> HP xxxx ?
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2020-04-04T18:33:19 < fenugrec> boddax, it's a monstrous HP 4195A
2020-04-04T18:33:33 < boddax> 20ghz ?
2020-04-04T18:33:54 < fenugrec> I'd like something more compact but can't find anything for the same money ~ 4-600$
2020-04-04T18:34:04 < fenugrec> 500M
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2020-04-04T18:35:33 < boddax> i own hp 8590L thats the basic one
2020-04-04T18:39:40 < boddax> and then you have also an recapped tek scope
2020-04-04T18:40:06 < boddax> look like an tds540
2020-04-04T18:42:48 < fenugrec> close; 744A
2020-04-04T18:43:18 < englishman> nice one fenugrec 
2020-04-04T18:43:19 < fenugrec> not sure what happened to the sticker on that one
2020-04-04T18:44:09 < boddax> 744a i think you can upgrade bandwith easily removing the bypass capacitors
2020-04-04T18:44:09 < englishman> i like the cantilevered radio supports
2020-04-04T18:45:36 < boddax> bottom pcb has 4 smd caps briging traces function is limit the banwith
2020-04-04T18:45:38 < fenugrec> boddax, correct, but mine has weird HF interleaving issues and it wouldn't be any better at 1GHz so there's no point
2020-04-04T18:47:01 < boddax> i think  you alredy in eevblog fenugrec  ..maybe?
2020-04-04T18:47:25 < fenugrec> I thought I was going to be able to use the 4195 to calibrate the scope but the cal software needs +16 or +17dBm at 500M / 1GHz, so I'm stuck
2020-04-04T18:47:52 < fenugrec> boddax, correct
2020-04-04T18:51:12 < fenugrec> good memory, I really don't post often there
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2020-04-04T20:56:45 < boddax> dueling with altiumbond ..how to change the shiit size ?
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2020-04-04T21:34:34 < emeb> Needed some touchsense on a project with STM32H750, but of course H750 has no TSC. So I added an STM32F042 to handle touchsense and export results via SPI. Seems to work.
2020-04-04T21:35:30 < emeb> Could have used a cheap SOT23-6 touchsense chip like those from MCHP, but I already had F042 parts in stock and the cost is about the same for 3 chls.
2020-04-04T21:35:32 < boddax> open project?
2020-04-04T21:35:51 < emeb> Not yet - just personal stuff. Might publish at some point in future.
2020-04-04T21:36:09 < englishman> dual core
2020-04-04T21:36:15 < emeb> heh
2020-04-04T21:36:51 < emeb> blurrycam picture: https://www.dropbox.com/s/w8mz7mhjvgzo4b6/0402201241.jpg?dl=0
2020-04-04T21:37:02 < emeb> F042 is on board at right.
2020-04-04T21:37:41 < machinehum> Cool
2020-04-04T21:37:47 < machinehum> Wavetable oscillator?
2020-04-04T21:38:11 < emeb> No. This is a stereo audio effects gizmo. 
2020-04-04T21:38:20 < emeb> Reverbs, delays, etc.
2020-04-04T21:38:26 < boddax> tought guitar things
2020-04-04T21:38:41 < emeb> Eurorack modular synth
2020-04-04T21:38:59 < machinehum> I build those to https://github.com/Machine-Hum/MMTMM
2020-04-04T21:39:20 < emeb> Nice.
2020-04-04T21:48:38 < zyp> emeb, wiring across the first two IOs worked out so well I did another bunch: https://bin.jvnv.net/file/hjvtr.jpg
2020-04-04T21:49:13 < emeb> zyp: That's the cheap way to do it.
2020-04-04T21:49:55 < zyp> now I've got all the point to point IOs on half the connectors usable as IOs, and still got all the signals intact on the other half to run led matrices if I want
2020-04-04T21:50:15 < emeb> That's a good idea.
2020-04-04T21:50:39 < zyp> yeah, worked out well with how they are distributed across the buffer chips too
2020-04-04T21:51:00 < zyp> there's six point to point IOs per connector (2x rgb), the rest is shared between all
2020-04-04T21:51:09 < emeb> I also saw someone who'd used some funky bi-dir bus switch chips that were drop-in replacements for the level shifters.
2020-04-04T21:51:16 < zyp> and the four connectors on each side have them distributed across three buffer chips
2020-04-04T21:51:23 < zyp> yeah, you mentioned that
2020-04-04T21:51:52  * emeb loses track of who he's said what to :P
2020-04-04T21:52:09 < zyp> I'd do that if I had those, but I'm not gonna spend money to have them shipped and I don't have anything else to order that they can tag along with at the moment
2020-04-04T21:52:30 < zyp> will probably pick up some the next time I'm ordering anything
2020-04-04T21:52:51 < emeb> yep - wait for free shipping
2020-04-04T21:53:25 < emeb> zyp: what are you using to send the bitstreams into that board?
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2020-04-04T21:54:07 < zyp> ft232h breakout
2020-04-04T21:54:25 < emeb> ftdi all the things.
2020-04-04T21:54:41 < zyp> it seemed the most reasonable option
2020-04-04T21:54:49 < emeb> It's "universal"
2020-04-04T21:55:14 < emeb> I have one of those but it lost its mind - enumerates as the wrong chip and refuses to work.
2020-04-04T21:55:27 < zyp> another low effort option would have been to use one of the rpis I've got lying around
2020-04-04T21:56:48 < zyp> that'd require some trick to move the svf file around though, because I'm not gonna build on a rpi
2020-04-04T21:56:52 < emeb> I ended up making a little F042 board that looks like a USB CDC serial port and converts to spi for loading up ice40 parts and their associated flash chips.
2020-04-04T21:57:35 < zyp> could have made something too, but that's more work :)
2020-04-04T21:57:45 < emeb> #effort
2020-04-04T21:58:07 < emeb> I just don't care for FTDI stuff. It works but rubs me the wrong way for some reason.
2020-04-04T21:58:24 < emeb> probably that failed breakout...
2020-04-04T21:58:34 < zyp> it's getting increasingly tempting to make some usb to anything board with a fpga, just instance as many uarts or whatever as I need
2020-04-04T21:58:48 < emeb> Sounds like Glasgow
2020-04-04T21:58:54 < zyp> ah, yeah, that was the name
2020-04-04T21:58:59 < zyp> yeah, I've looked at that
2020-04-04T21:59:18 < emeb> whitequark's done some amazing stuff with the software for that
2020-04-04T22:00:15 < zyp> the mechanical design of the glasgow confuses me a bit, two shrouded 2.54mm connectors and an unshrouded 1.27mm header
2020-04-04T22:00:24 < zyp> it's the latter that is fragile and ought to be shrouded
2020-04-04T22:00:45 < emeb> Yeah - the hardware doesn't impress me nearly as much as the software.
2020-04-04T22:00:59 < emeb> but there have been a lot of cooks in that kitchen
2020-04-04T22:01:19 < zyp> and the pinout of the LVDS port doesn't make much sense either, it's apparently not designed for a cable, since that'd break up the pairs
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2020-04-04T22:03:49 < zyp> but I mean, what I'm figuring doesn't even need designing dedicated hardware, I'm figuring something that'd do usb and all in the fpga, so both tinyfpga and orangecrab would be suitable targets
2020-04-04T22:04:24 < emeb> Ah - much simpler. 
2020-04-04T22:04:47 < emeb> I've played around with TinyFPGA a bit. It's pretty nice. I like the USB bootloader.
2020-04-04T22:05:28 < emeb> There are several USB bootloaders out there for the UP5K that I'd like to try out at some point.
2020-04-04T22:06:13 < emeb> tried them about a year ago but they were all very new and not debugged yet so that didn't work out well.
2020-04-04T22:06:25 < zyp> I found tinyfpga-bx in a store when I were in japan, so I grabbed one, but I haven't done anything past plugging it in and enumerating the bootloader yet
2020-04-04T22:07:38 < emeb> I followed the #exactsteps and used PlatformIO to do some simple things with it. Worked fine.
2020-04-04T22:07:52 < zyp> and now that I'm home, playing with the colorlight board seems more fun :)
2020-04-04T22:08:30 < emeb> Yeah - it's got way more resources.
2020-04-04T22:08:57 < zyp> I figure eventually when the usb stuff I'm planning to write is turning usable, it'd be useful to test it on both
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2020-04-04T22:11:11 < emeb> Should be interesting. See how portable across architectures it is.
2020-04-04T22:12:26 < zyp> I'm hoping to make something flexible
2020-04-04T22:12:47 < zyp> I'd like to do HS as well later
2020-04-04T22:13:01 < zyp> so I'm planning a proper PHY/MAC split from the start
2020-04-04T22:13:32 < emeb> Good idea.
2020-04-04T22:14:34 < emeb> I get the impression that a lot of the FPGA-based USB solutions out there ATM are done very ad-hoc by ppl who don't understand USB super well.
2020-04-04T22:15:14 < emeb> Or rather - understand it from a software / driver writer's standpoint. Not from the hardware level.
2020-04-04T22:16:17 < emeb> Which leads to designs that are somewhat byzantine and difficult to port across FPGA types
2020-04-04T22:16:17 < zyp> my understanding is that the main differences between FS and HS are the signalling level and a 40x increase in bitrate, so the MAC working with deserialized data won't see much of a difference
2020-04-04T22:17:23 < zyp> of course there's a couple extra token types, but that's mostly a host-hub thing, and then there's a higher SOF rate to create microframes
2020-04-04T22:17:31 < zyp> and some enumeration logic
2020-04-04T22:17:50 < emeb> Right - the PHYs are much more complex for HS to support the higher data rate. 
2020-04-04T22:17:56 < zyp> but overall, packet sending and reception should carry over
2020-04-04T22:18:15 < zyp> yeah
2020-04-04T22:18:23 < emeb> FS PHY basically boils down to a shift register whereas HS requires actual demodulation / tracking loops, etc.
2020-04-04T22:19:44 < zyp> pretty much
2020-04-04T22:19:56 < zyp> there's bit stuffing as well
2020-04-04T22:20:11 < zyp> apparently the PHY handles that
2020-04-04T22:20:45 < emeb> from that standpoint the gateware for HS might actually be easier than FS
2020-04-04T22:21:04 < zyp> https://bin.jvnv.net/file/IT7qA.png <- here's the stuff I did on the icestick before I went to japan
2020-04-04T22:21:20 < zyp> gonna port that over to the colorlight and continue
2020-04-04T22:21:57 < zyp> and yes
2020-04-04T22:22:11 < zyp> HS is one thing, but you can of course also do FS with a HS PHY :)
2020-04-04T22:24:37 < emeb> you planning to do a DIY USB protocol analyzer?
2020-04-04T22:26:12 < zyp> no, I'm just comparing what my deserializer is doing to sigrok's usb decoder
2020-04-04T22:26:52 < zyp> I'm planning to do a full device core
2020-04-04T22:43:57 < zyp> I'd like to do a modular endpoint interface as well, could do some fun tricks with that
2020-04-04T22:45:52 < zyp> e.g. when you are doing usb serial, could have the UART feeding directly into the endpoint buffer, and when the host is polling the endpoint, core can consume whatever is present in the buffer regardless of whether it's full or not
2020-04-04T22:46:53 < emeb> Neat idea.
2020-04-04T22:47:08 < emeb> Reduce latency / buffer bloat
2020-04-04T22:47:14 < zyp> yeah, exactly
2020-04-04T22:48:01 < zyp> on a mcu, once you're received a byte, you need to decide whether to wait for more bytes or queue the package for sending
2020-04-04T22:48:08 < zyp> you've*
2020-04-04T22:49:18 < emeb> curious that none of the USB cores on typical MCUs support a "send what you've got ASAP" mode.
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2020-04-04T22:49:36 < zyp> yeah, it shouldn't be too hard
2020-04-04T22:49:52 < zyp> dwc_otg is using a fifo architecture, so it should be able to
2020-04-04T22:50:14 < emeb> Designware. :P
2020-04-04T22:51:17 < emeb> When engineers go to the afterlife the ones who worked at Synopsys will have a lot to answer for.
2020-04-04T22:51:44 < zyp> to be fair, dwc_otg is probably the usb core I hold in the highest regard now
2020-04-04T22:52:18 < zyp> compared to the other device cores I've used, they actually seem to know what they are doing
2020-04-04T22:52:33 < emeb> is that praise, or just lack of hate? 
2020-04-04T22:53:14 < zyp> dunno :)
2020-04-04T22:55:39 < zyp> my initial gripes with it was that it was too fucking complex, now that complexity looks more like useful features to me
2020-04-04T22:56:58 < emeb> That's cool. I've not spent any time at all trying to understand the various USB cores. Barely understand the layers of drivers. :P
2020-04-04T22:57:40 < zyp> I've ran laks/usb on four cores so far, so that's what I've got to compare
2020-04-04T22:59:36 < zyp> the ST device only core is cute and simple, but the dual buffering mode is annoying and is mandatory for isochronous support
2020-04-04T23:00:51 < emeb> Someday when I don't have anything else to do (ha!) or USB becomes a higher priority for me I should learn that better.
2020-04-04T23:00:51 < zyp> it's been a long time since I looked at the one in TI LM4F, but that was just plain awful, register interface made me believe it was originally designed for an 8-bit system
2020-04-04T23:01:27 < emeb> heh - "We've got this thing laying around, let's use it!"
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2020-04-04T23:03:19 < zyp> and then there's the one in nrf52, it does some unusual things that doesn't fit with the way I've split my stack into hardware drivers
2020-04-04T23:03:58 < emeb> Ugh - rewrite all your stuff for our weird approach.
2020-04-04T23:04:13 < zyp> some of that isn't entirely unreasonable though
2020-04-04T23:04:49 < zyp> e.g. I assume setup packets are read from the same place as control out packets
2020-04-04T23:04:59 < zyp> but they are instead stored in dedicated registers
2020-04-04T23:05:31 < zyp> and to be fair, if I rewrote my stack today, I'd handle setup differently from control out
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2020-04-04T23:07:06 < emeb> yeah - you could fix it up but then backporting to all your old projects... :P
2020-04-04T23:09:09 < zyp> not worried about backporting
2020-04-04T23:09:36 < zyp> I've been wanting to redesign the stack for a long time, it's the redesign that's gonna take time, not backporting it
2020-04-04T23:10:42 < zyp> hmm
2020-04-04T23:10:53 < zyp> I actually started on the redesign three years ago: https://cgit.jvnv.net/laks/commit/?h=usb_transfer :p
2020-04-04T23:10:59 < emeb> heh
2020-04-04T23:11:17 < emeb> that's a lot of redesign time
2020-04-04T23:12:18 < zyp> well, that commit does much of the transmission half of it
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2020-04-04T23:13:12 < aandrew> hahaha https://www.canadiantire.ca/en/pdp/joovy-boob-sealing-caps-2-pk-2744495p.html
2020-04-04T23:13:17 < zyp> but what would really benefit is the reception half, the problem I want to solve is that reception flow control isn't very easy to use in a sensible way at the moment
2020-04-04T23:13:41 < BrainDamage> aandrew: site overloaded
2020-04-04T23:13:42 < zyp> and that needs larger changes :)
2020-04-04T23:13:53 < BrainDamage> NOUS SOMMES TRÈS OCCUPÉS EN CE MOMENT
2020-04-04T23:14:03 < BrainDamage> pretty aggressive for a quebequoise
2020-04-04T23:15:27 < zyp> aandrew, I don't get it?
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2020-04-04T23:39:55 < aandrew> just the 12yo in me giggling at "boob sealing caps"
2020-04-04T23:43:42 -!- jly [uid355225@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-ohzygzaiaepiktaa] has joined ##stm32
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2020-04-04T23:49:21 < Steffanx> they seem very popular. Website is still too busy to show me
--- Day changed Sun Apr 05 2020
2020-04-05T00:15:13 < Steffanx> Gooday jly
2020-04-05T00:18:05 < catphish> i really need to find people to work on electronics with, it's so boring working alone, especially this week
2020-04-05T00:18:52 < qyx> are you going to make a group of two?
2020-04-05T00:22:21 -!- Laurenceb [~laurence@223.141.208.46.dyn.plus.net] has joined ##stm32
2020-04-05T00:22:24 < Laurenceb> with Corbyn out, Jews can once again live safely in England
2020-04-05T00:22:54 < Laurenceb> the most antisemitic man in the world
2020-04-05T00:28:35 < karlp> fenugrec: put your desk picture back up again!
2020-04-05T00:29:16 < Steffanx> Laurenceb can work with you, catphish  
2020-04-05T00:29:41 < fenugrec> karlp, oops it expired https://linx.li/iqx156tu.jpg
2020-04-05T00:29:44 < catphish> i can't work with him, sounds like he liked jews
2020-04-05T00:29:54 < jly> 1000 muricans dead in 1 day
2020-04-05T00:30:05 < Steffanx> And 3 cats
2020-04-05T00:30:09 < Steffanx> Or 300?
2020-04-05T00:30:12 < catphish> fenugrec: pretty!
2020-04-05T00:30:23 < jly> I'd call it a 303
2020-04-05T00:30:27 < Laurenceb> >someone interviewed on bbc news actually called him the worlds biggest antisemite
2020-04-05T00:30:30 < jly> approximately a 3rd of 911
2020-04-05T00:30:31 < jly> lolol
2020-04-05T00:30:49 < catphish> i don't really understand why people don't like jews
2020-04-05T00:31:18 < Laurenceb> they are very popular in Gaza I hear
2020-04-05T00:31:23 < jly> Steffanx: If I die, you have permission to laugh
2020-04-05T00:31:36 < Steffanx> Nah, I wouldn't do that
2020-04-05T00:32:06 < catphish> apart from the obvious exception of isreal i guess where jews represent a nation at some kind of war i don't understand well
2020-04-05T00:32:24 < Laurenceb> >apart from
2020-04-05T00:32:37 < catphish> they should stop making it a race/religion thing though, and classify those poeple some other way
2020-04-05T00:32:43 < Steffanx> In Israel they dont like the diehard jews either
2020-04-05T00:32:59 < jly> what do jews actually do
2020-04-05T00:33:00 < Steffanx> They dont listen to the government
2020-04-05T00:33:24 < catphish> jly: they jew
2020-04-05T00:33:31 < jly> except circumcise babiest and suck the blood out of the wound - that's all i know about what jews do.
2020-04-05T00:33:37 < Steffanx> They keep doing the group praying while the government asked them to not do that.. because coronizzle and stuff 
2020-04-05T00:34:20 < catphish> seems mad to people that those people are too retarded to have found a compromise after however many years
2020-04-05T00:34:28 < catphish> *seems mad to me
2020-04-05T00:35:27 < Steffanx> What will you do about it?
2020-04-05T00:35:39 < catphish> i will do nothing, it's none of my business
2020-04-05T00:37:28 < catphish> Laurence appears to be a british like me!
2020-04-05T00:43:29 < Cracki> catphish, what compromise? palestinians get their soil taken away, driven out of their houses, etc
2020-04-05T00:44:08 < Cracki> you're assuming that there are no interests larger than peace
2020-04-05T00:44:53 < Cracki> a fun list https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_United_Nations_resolutions_concerning_Israel
2020-04-05T00:45:44 < catphish> Cracki: i don't know what compromise, because i don't understand the problem, but they need to man up and find one
2020-04-05T00:45:50 < Cracki> if you want to know more, look up some conspiracy theories
2020-04-05T00:46:02 < Cracki> they man up and keep doing what they're doing
2020-04-05T00:46:19 < catphish> what they're doing is retarded, like i said
2020-04-05T00:46:24 < catphish> war is a dumb solution
2020-04-05T00:46:26 < Cracki> nobody in the whole history of human conflict has ever used "man up" and "peace" in the same sentence
2020-04-05T00:46:32 < Cracki> war isn't the solution
2020-04-05T00:46:36 < Cracki> war is a means to gain resources
2020-04-05T00:46:55 < catphish> is's clearly more complicated than an invasion
2020-04-05T00:47:03 < Cracki> you don't get your nose punched on the playground because "conflict"
2020-04-05T00:47:12 < Cracki> you get your nose punched because the bully wants something from you
2020-04-05T00:47:27 < Cracki> bully says you looked at him wrong
2020-04-05T00:47:29 < zyp> http://www.poorlydrawnlines.com/comic/mad/
2020-04-05T00:48:07 < Cracki> mad = psychological issues
2020-04-05T00:48:22 < Cracki> I prefer to just use the term "evil"
2020-04-05T00:48:41 < Cracki> because blaming it on "insanity" is an excuse based on the lack of agency
2020-04-05T00:48:55 < Cracki> there is no lack of agency. they're fully responsible for what they do
2020-04-05T00:49:15 < Cracki> they being every bully
2020-04-05T00:50:28 < catphish> Cracki: bullies never want anything from you, they just want to show off
2020-04-05T00:50:39 < catphish> but i'm not sure that's relevant
2020-04-05T00:50:56 < Cracki> that's the lies what parents tell you
2020-04-05T00:51:03 < catphish> how so?
2020-04-05T00:51:16 < Cracki> bullies enjoy your suffering
2020-04-05T00:51:25 < catphish> perhaps
2020-04-05T00:51:25 < Cracki> it's fun
2020-04-05T00:51:41 < Cracki> showing off isn't the end. it's a means to feel powerful, feel good.
2020-04-05T00:52:20 < Cracki> bullies overstep boundaries because they don't value anything but themselves
2020-04-05T00:52:31 < Cracki> and because they want something that's over that boundary
2020-04-05T00:55:26 < Cracki> bullies with a bit of conscience love to hear "both sides to blame" because that means their aggression is downplayed and cancels with the victim's defense
2020-04-05T00:55:43 < Cracki> bullies without a conscience start shit and then deny everything entirely
2020-04-05T00:57:03 < Cracki> don't think only children can be bullies. those children grow up but the psychopathy only intensifies
2020-04-05T00:57:37 < Cracki> you've got a candidate if you notice someone treating particular people like shit, and everyone else very nice
2020-04-05T00:58:15 < jly> I'm trying to do some science
2020-04-05T00:58:17 < jly> https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/6/6d/1317_CFS_Circulation.jpg
2020-04-05T00:58:24 < Cracki> that's to single out victims, isolate them, erode the credibility of their calls for help
2020-04-05T00:58:28 < jly> Which part makes people hoard toilet paper?
2020-04-05T00:58:40 < Cracki> the fluffy part maybe
2020-04-05T00:58:41 < zyp> their asshole
2020-04-05T00:58:56 < kakimir> end of civilization
2020-04-05T00:59:15 < Cracki> the anticipation that everyone else is gonna act like a typical retard human
2020-04-05T00:59:32 < jly> zyp: seems probable 
2020-04-05T01:00:05 < kakimir> covid19 causes diahrea
2020-04-05T01:00:34 < jly> the old covid
2020-04-05T01:00:36 < kakimir> new worlds don't have butt shower in toilets
2020-04-05T01:00:49 < jly> i just use the garden hose
2020-04-05T01:00:51 < Cracki> the three most common symptoms around here don't include the shits
2020-04-05T01:01:04 < jly> also
2020-04-05T01:01:23 < jly> did 1000 ppl really die in 1 day
2020-04-05T01:01:57 < jly> (under the donald pump)
2020-04-05T01:02:34 < Cracki> more than that die every day regardless
2020-04-05T01:04:03 < Cracki> 300e6 / 78 * 8 = 30.8 million people died under obama
2020-04-05T01:04:54 < jly> i'm talking about the corona bong
2020-04-05T01:05:09 < Cracki> hoax
2020-04-05T01:05:26 < jly> cool
2020-04-05T01:05:32 < Cracki> it's the 5G don't you know
2020-04-05T01:05:41 < kakimir> when I had my first covid19 I almost shitted myself
2020-04-05T01:05:49 < kakimir> now maybe having seconds covid19
2020-04-05T01:05:55 < jly> yeah same I've had it at least 3 times I reckon
2020-04-05T01:06:02 < kakimir> I feel irritation in my throat
2020-04-05T01:06:29 < kakimir> must mean death is inevitable
2020-04-05T01:06:34 < Cracki> this says there have been two days with >1k deaths https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/country/us/
2020-04-05T01:07:18 < Cracki> if current trends continue, the moon will be completely depopulated
2020-04-05T01:15:35 < kakimir> is murica in the moon?
2020-04-05T01:15:48 < kakimir> that is what I thought when I flew to states
2020-04-05T01:16:09 < kakimir> the aircraft transitioned to another planet
2020-04-05T01:16:32 -!- sterna [~Adium@c-d324235c.016-35-62726f1.bbcust.telenor.se] has quit [Quit: Leaving.]
2020-04-05T01:16:54 < Cracki> implication doesn't imply causation :P
2020-04-05T01:19:33 < qyx> did anyone try to use STM32 bootloader with RS485?
2020-04-05T01:19:45 < qyx> the internal one
2020-04-05T01:19:59 < qyx> I haven't checked yet if it is possible at all
2020-04-05T01:20:14 < zyp> how would you deal with DE?
2020-04-05T01:20:36 < qyx> thats the catch
2020-04-05T01:20:41 < qyx> idk if it is able to do that
2020-04-05T01:22:46 < qyx> clive1 says it is not possible
2020-04-05T01:22:50 < qyx> so it must be true
2020-04-05T01:34:25 < jly> clive1 is actually STM32
2020-04-05T01:34:43 < zyp> hmm, the USB PD signalling looks fairly easy to bitbang
2020-04-05T01:35:47 < zyp> as in, the analog part of it doesn't look overly complex, a normal push-pull driver should do fine
2020-04-05T01:36:31 < Laurenceb> I've used bootloader with bluetooth
2020-04-05T01:36:33 < zyp> still need resistor control and/or sensing though
2020-04-05T01:36:33 < Laurenceb> lots of fun
2020-04-05T01:37:58 < zyp> source is using the current setting pullups for anticollision (3A: you can send, 1.5A: I'm about to send)
2020-04-05T01:43:19 < R2COM> so which cheap usa PCB manufacturers are out there, any ideas
2020-04-05T01:43:53 < zyp> 4pcb?
2020-04-05T01:44:18 < R2COM> 4pcb? just placed one order with them for $8k
2020-04-05T01:44:26 < R2COM> i need someone whom i can order stuff without loosing pants
2020-04-05T01:48:11 < jly> you can lose an o
2020-04-05T01:48:26 < jly> Hi R2COM :D
2020-04-05T01:48:31 < R2COM> yo
2020-04-05T01:48:49 < R2COM> how is your quarantine goin, still gettin laid?
2020-04-05T01:49:32 < jly> idk i'm hiding in a box
2020-04-05T01:49:48  * catphish is trapped in a house with just one women, so boring
2020-04-05T01:50:39 < Laurenceb> move to Saudi Arabia
2020-04-05T01:51:12 < jly> my immune system put it for leave so I have to hide 
2020-04-05T01:51:30 < jly> but I don't eat bats so maybe it'll all work out
2020-04-05T01:51:49 < R2COM> i dont think its a bat thing
2020-04-05T01:53:31 < jly> 5G?
2020-04-05T01:53:49 < R2COM> wat 5g
2020-04-05T01:54:10 < Laurenceb> lmao
2020-04-05T01:54:12 < Laurenceb> like wtf
2020-04-05T01:54:16 < jly> some crazy person said it causes coronavirus
2020-04-05T01:54:19 < Laurenceb> >5g causes a virus
2020-04-05T01:54:22 < specing> lol
2020-04-05T01:54:47 < jly> at least jews did 911 was believable 
2020-04-05T01:54:57 < Cracki> what do you mean believABLE
2020-04-05T01:55:04 < Laurenceb> >google tries to hide everything
2020-04-05T01:55:05 < R2COM> jews created communism
2020-04-05T01:55:11 < Cracki> that's like saying "my breakfast was edible"
2020-04-05T01:55:13 < Laurenceb> >wtf I think 5g causes coronavirus now
2020-04-05T01:55:20 < R2COM> by the way first communist was jesus crist
2020-04-05T01:55:36 < Cracki> why'd they crucify him then
2020-04-05T01:55:41 < Cracki> was is not the right kind of commie
2020-04-05T01:55:42 < R2COM> he fed all people equally spreading fish or whatever among them
2020-04-05T01:55:44  * Laurenceb uses yandex to find the actual conspriacy pages
2020-04-05T01:55:44 < jly> bacon
2020-04-05T01:55:47 < catphish> nobody's proven that 5g doesn't cause covid19 right
2020-04-05T01:55:47 < Cracki> also who invented capitalism
2020-04-05T01:56:07 < R2COM> im not sure if covid is not lab incident
2020-04-05T01:56:12 < Cracki> for all we know 5g could depress your immune system so you can die from the common cold
2020-04-05T01:56:16 < catphish> there have been no conclusive widespread trials to check
2020-04-05T01:56:19 < Cracki> we have to test this!
2020-04-05T01:56:28 < Cracki> we have to irradiate some population of guinea pigs
2020-04-05T01:56:37 < R2COM> the thing is in 70s or so in ussr there was lab incident making bio weapons
2020-04-05T01:56:47 < R2COM> and it caused pneumania in young males in nearby city
2020-04-05T01:57:02 < Cracki> imho 5g isn't any different from all the other radio waves we're surrounded by already
2020-04-05T01:57:05 < R2COM> city was later closed quarantined etc
2020-04-05T01:57:23 < R2COM> but at that time people were not as free and not much mobility and no media
2020-04-05T01:57:30 < R2COM> so it kinda went out silent
2020-04-05T01:57:33 < Cracki> who owns the media
2020-04-05T01:58:49 < Cracki> I hope elon owns all the martian media
2020-04-05T01:58:59 < Cracki> orbital sides from all the memes
2020-04-05T01:59:24 < R2COM> lemme see
2020-04-05T01:59:29 < R2COM> i think it was this case:
2020-04-05T01:59:31 < R2COM> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sverdlovsk_anthrax_leak
2020-04-05T02:00:11 < R2COM> so soviet government at that time immediately spread local rumors that its cuz of some spoiled meat 
2020-04-05T02:00:26 < R2COM> thats why today i dont believe to that "eating bat" thing
2020-04-05T02:00:45 < Cracki> yes it escaped from their biolab
2020-04-05T02:01:13 -!- renn0xtk9 [~max@2a02:810d:1540:61b8:3d47:4d8:48dc:996a] has quit [Quit: Konversation terminated!]
2020-04-05T02:01:15 < Cracki> eiher because chinese are careless about safety protocols and hygiene, or it was intentional. we'll never know
2020-04-05T02:02:39 < Cracki> deaths, flu 2019: 291-646k worldwide. wuflu: far away https://www.hopkinsmedicine.org/health/conditions-and-diseases/coronavirus/coronavirus-disease-2019-vs-the-flu
2020-04-05T02:02:48 < Cracki> nobody flips their shit over the flu
2020-04-05T02:03:13 < qyx> so are there any estimations of the real number of deaths in china?
2020-04-05T02:03:22 < qyx> exccept the one with 21 million of lost cell phones
2020-04-05T02:03:48 < R2COM> no. all numbers there are government controlled
2020-04-05T02:15:37 -!- tcth_ [~tcth@77.109.191.152] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds]
2020-04-05T02:17:39 < qyx> I have a solenoid lock and I want to detect if the core is able to move or is stuck
2020-04-05T02:18:03 < qyx> it is controlled with a n-mos connected to a PWM output channel
2020-04-05T02:18:29 < qyx> thres also a current sensing resistor connected to the internal comparator
2020-04-05T02:18:51 < qyx> the comp input can be reconfigured to a generic ADC input
2020-04-05T02:19:10 < qyx> hm, or maybe I can sample the input with ADC even when the comp is operating
2020-04-05T02:19:26 < Cracki> why not send the sense resistor's voltage to the adc directly
2020-04-05T02:20:06 < qyx> because I want the comparator to assert timer/pwm hw break input
2020-04-05T02:20:08 < qyx> on overcurrent
2020-04-05T02:20:19 < qyx> without sw intervention
2020-04-05T02:20:20 < Cracki> ic
2020-04-05T02:20:26 < qyx> so, I am curious
2020-04-05T02:20:41 < qyx> if it is possible to measure the solenoid inductance
2020-04-05T02:20:48 < qyx> to determine it's core position
2020-04-05T02:21:04 < zyp> qyx, we're doing that in workstuff
2020-04-05T02:21:22 < qyx> nda'd? :>
2020-04-05T02:21:50 < qyx> is it basically 1. energize the coil 2. start sampling current 3. finish after specified time 4. compute the delay 5. compute inductance
2020-04-05T02:23:16 < qyx> I may even use the comparator for that
2020-04-05T02:23:18 < zyp> we're using 24V nominal solenoid valves that we're driving with 48V PWM with current feedback
2020-04-05T02:23:44 < qyx> and measuring phase delay?
2020-04-05T02:23:55 < qyx> between pwm and sensed current?
2020-04-05T02:24:45 < jadew> Cracki, covid could kill more than 100 million this year
2020-04-05T02:24:47 < zyp> I don't remember exactly what we're doing, but the point is to activate them quickly, and then switch over to a constant current mode to hold them without dissipating too much power
2020-04-05T02:25:01 < Cracki> jadew, I doubt it
2020-04-05T02:25:31 < jadew> Cracki, do the math... also, graphing the deaths suggests it's perfectly possible
2020-04-05T02:26:25 < Cracki> well, 7.5 billion world pop, 1 year of time, 75 years life expectancy, that's 100 million dead regardless
2020-04-05T02:26:33 < Cracki> and most of them will have had the virus by then
2020-04-05T02:26:53 < Cracki> doesn't mean it's the cause
2020-04-05T02:26:55 < jadew> except it will kill lots of healthy and young people too
2020-04-05T02:27:07 < Cracki> ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
2020-04-05T02:27:09 < Cracki> the flu does it too
2020-04-05T02:27:19 < jadew> more than the flu's total
2020-04-05T02:27:28 < Cracki> obesity kills people
2020-04-05T02:27:34 < jadew> that number will be in the millions
2020-04-05T02:27:41 < Cracki> people choke from swallowing spiders in their sleep
2020-04-05T02:27:43 < jadew> the one for young & healthy
2020-04-05T02:27:51 < Cracki> then make new people
2020-04-05T02:27:58 < R2COM> why you spread this shit when real statistics says its below 0.5% deathrate for young people below 40
2020-04-05T02:27:59 < Cracki> people are a renewable resource
2020-04-05T02:28:04 < Cracki> ^
2020-04-05T02:28:21 < Cracki> 0.2% even, and that's noise basically
2020-04-05T02:28:25 < jadew> R2COM, because 0.2% is huge for healthy individuals
2020-04-05T02:28:34 < jadew> for regular flu is practically 0
2020-04-05T02:28:38 < Cracki> one in 500 has something that adds to the burden
2020-04-05T02:28:47 < zyp> qyx, I don't remember exactly how the diagnostic stuff works, but I remember the current graph having two distinct peaks
2020-04-05T02:28:54 < R2COM> healthy = healthy, young but with asthma etc, != healthjy
2020-04-05T02:28:56 < jadew> actually the number for the healthy individuals is about 0.1%
2020-04-05T02:29:04 < jadew> which is what the flu has across the board
2020-04-05T02:29:06 < Mangy_Dog> i just want to point out as of today the death rate in the Uk is 10%
2020-04-05T02:29:12 < jly> if I stay at home and download anime
2020-04-05T02:29:12 < Mangy_Dog> let that sink in
2020-04-05T02:29:16 < jadew> R2COM, with no other comorbidities 
2020-04-05T02:29:21 < Cracki> sinks stay outside!
2020-04-05T02:29:22 < Mangy_Dog> then scream if shear panic
2020-04-05T02:29:29 < R2COM> you are just spreading this panicig bs shit really
2020-04-05T02:29:34 < R2COM> its not even funny anymore
2020-04-05T02:29:34 < Cracki> test more
2020-04-05T02:29:38 < Mangy_Dog> its not BS though
2020-04-05T02:29:38 < jadew> R2COM, it's what the data says
2020-04-05T02:29:41 < R2COM> can you stopd doing it?
2020-04-05T02:29:42 < Cracki> testing corpses causes 100% mortality rate
2020-04-05T02:29:50 < Mangy_Dog> 40000 people have been infected. 4000 people have died
2020-04-05T02:29:56 < Mangy_Dog> (give or take a few hundred)
2020-04-05T02:30:01 < R2COM> no its not what data says, data says <0.5% emong *young* if you open eyes
2020-04-05T02:30:01 < Cracki> how many have been tested
2020-04-05T02:30:02 < Mangy_Dog> thats 10%
2020-04-05T02:30:14 < jly> I have a thermometer
2020-04-05T02:30:14 < jadew> R2COM, dude... 0.5% is HUGE
2020-04-05T02:30:22 < Mangy_Dog> r2com its far higher than 0.5%
2020-04-05T02:30:25 < Mangy_Dog> in young people
2020-04-05T02:30:28 < Cracki>  /o\
2020-04-05T02:30:30 < jadew> and it actually says 0.1% for healthy and young
2020-04-05T02:30:30 < Mangy_Dog> flue is 0.5%
2020-04-05T02:30:35 < Mangy_Dog> flu
2020-04-05T02:30:38 < Cracki> back to solenoids pls
2020-04-05T02:30:46 < Cracki> zyp, can haz current graph or something
2020-04-05T02:30:50 < R2COM> 10% death out of which many over 70?
2020-04-05T02:30:59 < R2COM> its not 10% of young healthy Mangy_Dog
2020-04-05T02:31:03 < zyp> qyx, IIRC the current increases as the magnetic field builds, then the first peak comes as the core starts moving and consuming energy, then current increases again until it hits a threshold and switches over to constant current mode
2020-04-05T02:31:20 < Mangy_Dog> sure if you include perfectly healthy 20 and 30 somthings and a few teenager with no underlying health problems over 70
2020-04-05T02:31:20 < jly> solenoidal vector fields
2020-04-05T02:31:28 < zyp> Cracki, don't have
2020-04-05T02:31:50 < Cracki> *cries*
2020-04-05T02:31:52 < Mangy_Dog> so far the death rate is far far higher than they have originally let on
2020-04-05T02:31:56 < Mangy_Dog> regardless of age
2020-04-05T02:32:10 < zyp> all the logic of this stuff is implemented in one of those simulink blobs that I mostly treat as a black box
2020-04-05T02:32:17 < R2COM> the overall data now says death among <40/45 is less than 0.5%; and that is not accounting for previous problems in that 0.5%
2020-04-05T02:32:42 < zyp> so I've only been responsible for hooking up the ADC input and PWM output to the blob :p
2020-04-05T02:32:49 < jadew> R2COM, if you account for those, you're left with 0.1% MINIMUM DEATH RATE
2020-04-05T02:32:54 < Cracki> what kinda solenoids do you guys move that need someone to model this in simulink?
2020-04-05T02:32:56 < R2COM> on top of that, if you consider fact that statistics is calculated over tested cases...and if you allow that way more infected but tests not reported, then rate is even less than 0.5%
2020-04-05T02:33:01 < Mangy_Dog> in any case its gone 12 and i should be in bed but i wanted to do some programming first
2020-04-05T02:33:05 < Mangy_Dog> and this is distracting me D:
2020-04-05T02:33:07 < jadew> that's the death rate regardless of how healthy or young you are
2020-04-05T02:33:14 < zyp> Cracki, it's not modelled, it's controlled by a simulink model
2020-04-05T02:33:20 < Cracki> yes same
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2020-04-05T02:33:41 < qyx> no labview?
2020-04-05T02:33:46 < Cracki> I say "model" to mean the activity of stacking wooden blocks up in simulink
2020-04-05T02:33:47 < R2COM> anyway, im minimizing this window guys. ill late you sit here and panic
2020-04-05T02:33:48 < Mangy_Dog> the death rate was expected to be around 1-2% but so far its shown to be 10%
2020-04-05T02:33:54 < R2COM> ok
2020-04-05T02:33:55 < Mangy_Dog> which is pretty fucking serious tbh
2020-04-05T02:34:11 < jadew> R2COM, exactly, it works out to 0.1%, which when applied to the projected numbers for this year, you end up with millions of healthy  and young people who are going to die
2020-04-05T02:34:12 < qyx> what 10%
2020-04-05T02:34:14 < zyp> Cracki, fast ones, obviously
2020-04-05T02:34:52 < R2COM> jadew if you are talking about *world* then TENS of millions die from all other stuff around
2020-04-05T02:34:56 < Cracki> fast, sure, but this stuff sounds like you need it to be controlled rather than apply voltage and let it run into "mechanical endstop"
2020-04-05T02:34:56 < R2COM> and you never seemed to care
2020-04-05T02:35:01 < Mangy_Dog> qyx the nortality rate in the UK so far from the virus
2020-04-05T02:35:24 < zyp> Cracki, the whole point of driving them at twice the nominal voltage is to get them to open faster
2020-04-05T02:35:35 < Mangy_Dog> anyway back to programming for me
2020-04-05T02:35:51 < Cracki> Mangy_Dog, wat ze fuck are you bongs doing wrong and why are you seeing different results from the germans? https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/country/uk/ https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/country/germany/
2020-04-05T02:35:54 < qyx> Mangy_Dog: what jadew said, you have testing bias
2020-04-05T02:35:54 < zyp> and then the constant current mode is to keep them from burning out and once you have current sensing anyway you can use that for diagnostics too
2020-04-05T02:36:03 < Cracki> ah
2020-04-05T02:36:08 < Cracki> neat
2020-04-05T02:36:15 < Mangy_Dog> cracki yeah i know its pretty fucking messed up
2020-04-05T02:36:20 < rajkosto> bongs have 0 discipline
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2020-04-05T02:36:43 < Cracki> pub crawls all day every day
2020-04-05T02:37:01 < qyx> Cracki: we are only testing symptomatic cases too, we have about 400 or so infected with ~150 in hospitals, which is fairly hign number
2020-04-05T02:37:28 < qyx> so we are probably missing many asymptomatic cases
2020-04-05T02:37:32 < qyx> like in uk or what
2020-04-05T02:38:05 < Mangy_Dog> it probebly is indeed the case that theres twice as many infected without knowing
2020-04-05T02:38:05 < R2COM> if you count the asymptomatic or non tested cases, then deathrate is even lower than 0.1%
2020-04-05T02:38:08 < qyx> but still, 150 in hosptals, 3 critical, 1 death, too optimistic numbers
2020-04-05T02:38:10 < R2COM> for young people
2020-04-05T02:38:26 < Cracki> uk must have... 287k cases if german test/death ratio is applied to uk deaths
2020-04-05T02:38:26 < Mangy_Dog> but even then the deathrate is 5% which is still more than double then the original projected death rate
2020-04-05T02:38:47 < R2COM> ...
2020-04-05T02:38:53 < Cracki> lots of old people that get to die
2020-04-05T02:39:16 < qyx> twice?
2020-04-05T02:39:29 < qyx> I would rather say 10x or similar
2020-04-05T02:39:30 < Cracki> sure, why not, as often as they like
2020-04-05T02:39:54 < zyp> Cracki, the current lab setup we're testing on got 60 of those solenoids, there's some info here if you wanna know what the point is: https://www.digiwin.info/testing
2020-04-05T02:40:04 < Cracki> I love point
2020-04-05T02:40:14 < zyp> even a photo of the solenoids :)
2020-04-05T02:40:17 < Cracki> wew big boys
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2020-04-05T02:41:43 < jadew> R2COM, http://188.25.126.97/stuff/ncov/day-55/deaths.png
2020-04-05T02:41:52 < jadew> http://188.25.126.97/stuff/ncov/day-73/deaths.png
2020-04-05T02:42:07 < Cracki> swine flu deaths reverse near 200 days
2020-04-05T02:42:15 < jadew> they don't
2020-04-05T02:42:24 < jadew> they still go up
2020-04-05T02:42:28 < Cracki> swine flu had more than 12k deaths didn't it
2020-04-05T02:42:31 < jadew> for several years
2020-04-05T02:42:35 < jadew> it did
2020-04-05T02:42:40 < jadew> but I don't have more data
2020-04-05T02:42:45 < Cracki> here, day 200 near 7k, yellow line goes downhttp://188.25.126.97/stuff/ncov/day-55/deaths.png
2020-04-05T02:43:24 < Cracki> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6Ejga4kJUts
2020-04-05T02:43:27 < jadew> don't know what that dip was
2020-04-05T02:43:33 < zyp> that's just jesus, ignore him
2020-04-05T02:45:33 < R2COM> what i always hate is panicing people spreading wrongful predictions after misinterpreting the data
2020-04-05T02:45:54 < jadew> http://188.25.126.97/stuff/ncov/trend.txt
2020-04-05T02:46:03 < jadew> so far my predictions are pretty accurate
2020-04-05T02:46:17 < Cracki> the chinese numbers tracked a quadratic model nearly perfectly for weeks
2020-04-05T02:46:19 < R2COM> noone gives crapt to that thing
2020-04-05T02:46:23 < R2COM> what is that website to start with
2020-04-05T02:46:26 < Cracki> interpret numbers
2020-04-05T02:46:30 < R2COM> who and how manipulated that data?
2020-04-05T02:46:34 < jadew> R2COM, I did
2020-04-05T02:46:43 < R2COM> ok so i trash this data now and ignore
2020-04-05T02:46:46 < R2COM> sorry
2020-04-05T02:46:52 < jadew> and those are my predictions that I made on 26 March and on april 1st
2020-04-05T02:47:03 < R2COM> noone cares about *your* predictions
2020-04-05T02:47:13 < jadew> that's your choice, but the prediction was true
2020-04-05T02:47:20 < jadew> or fairly accurate
2020-04-05T02:47:52 < Cracki> take a chance. extrapolate 2 or 4 weeks. do that from the data you had 2-4 weeks ago
2020-04-05T02:47:56 < Cracki> see how far it deviates
2020-04-05T02:48:00 < R2COM> you do not have valid data and data organization tools to make predictions just because there is some match does not mean anything
2020-04-05T02:48:12 < R2COM> as i said any statistics can be shaped differently depending how you break it
2020-04-05T02:48:20 < Cracki> "data organization tools" means nothing
2020-04-05T02:48:23 < zyp> does it matter anyway?
2020-04-05T02:48:32 < jadew> Cracki, I did that and the numbers I came up with were much lower
2020-04-05T02:48:52 < Cracki> so... the farther you extrapolate, the more uncertain it gets
2020-04-05T02:48:55 < zyp> are these predictions gonna change how you act?
2020-04-05T02:48:57 < Cracki> that's the only takeaway
2020-04-05T02:49:14 < R2COM> no but stupid predictions create unnecessary panic
2020-04-05T02:49:15 < jadew> zyp, I'm hoping it will change how other people act
2020-04-05T02:49:35 < jadew> the reason the situation is so bad in so many countries is because people think this shit is the flu
2020-04-05T02:49:37 < Cracki> extrapolating by a day, every day for months, of course means you have very little error for lots of consecutive times. that doesn't mean much though
2020-04-05T02:49:46 < qyx> who? germans weekending without masks?
2020-04-05T02:50:03 < Cracki> I can take a yard stick, throw it on the ground, proclaim the ground is flat, and do that for a thousand miles
2020-04-05T02:50:20 < Cracki> germans stay at home
2020-04-05T02:50:34 < Cracki> people living in germany, not so much
2020-04-05T02:50:39 < qyx> I did see some photos
2020-04-05T02:50:42 < qyx> aha
2020-04-05T02:50:43 < jadew> Cracki, if your point is that this is no worse than the flu, I don't know what other data to present to you
2020-04-05T02:50:49 < jadew> because that graph is extremely telling to me
2020-04-05T02:50:55 < jadew> this shit is extremely virulent
2020-04-05T02:50:59 < Cracki> my point is even if it's worse than the flu, so what
2020-04-05T02:51:08 < jadew> and no matter the death rate, it will kill lots of people, very fast
2020-04-05T02:51:12 < R2COM> jadew noone cares about your dummy ill data
2020-04-05T02:51:22 < R2COM> and people do know that its virulent
2020-04-05T02:51:24 < jadew> R2COM, it's not my data, it's the official data
2020-04-05T02:51:27 < jadew> I just graphed it
2020-04-05T02:51:31 < Cracki> you have hte death rate for healthy people non-old ppl
2020-04-05T02:51:41 < R2COM> and your attempts to draw something in a worse shape wont do anythihng than causing annoyance
2020-04-05T02:51:55 < jadew> R2COM, I didn't alter the data
2020-04-05T02:52:01 < jadew> I just said plot()
2020-04-05T02:52:06 < jadew> that is the real data
2020-04-05T02:52:10 < R2COM> you keep ignoring the damn fact that 99.99% of deaths are for really old or preconditioned people
2020-04-05T02:52:26 < jadew> that's the case for all the other flus too
2020-04-05T02:52:28 < Cracki> 99% but the point stands
2020-04-05T02:52:29 < R2COM> and you keep and keep and keep ignoring this
2020-04-05T02:52:37 < R2COM> mixing all deaths in 1 plate
2020-04-05T02:52:42 < R2COM> isnt it stupid?
2020-04-05T02:52:50 < jadew> that is the case for all the other flus too!
2020-04-05T02:52:57 < Cracki> so it's just like the flu!
2020-04-05T02:53:03 < Cracki> :D maybe worse, maybe not
2020-04-05T02:53:12 < jadew> exactly, except at least 20 times worse
2020-04-05T02:53:14 < jadew> for everyone
2020-04-05T02:53:24 < Cracki> big numbers aren't so big when you take them relative to even bigger numbers
2020-04-05T02:53:33 < Cracki> the number of people on this rock is unimaginable
2020-04-05T02:53:41 < Cracki> it's faster
2020-04-05T02:53:47 < jadew> Cracki, ok... so how do you explain that data
2020-04-05T02:53:47 < Cracki> get me plots of flu deaths
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2020-04-05T02:53:53 < jadew> this: http://188.25.126.97/stuff/ncov/day-73/deaths.png
2020-04-05T02:53:55 < Cracki> get me plots of flu deaths
2020-04-05T02:54:11 < jly> welcome
2020-04-05T02:54:12 < Cracki> you are alarmed by its trajectory, not its absolute number
2020-04-05T02:54:17 < jadew> I do not have them, I expect them to be a fairly constant line with some dips during summer
2020-04-05T02:54:38 < jadew> Cracki... the trajectory is what it's worrying
2020-04-05T02:54:38 < Cracki> your plot for swine flu shows increasing rate too
2020-04-05T02:54:50 < jadew> you can't get alarmed by it's absolute number until you have that number
2020-04-05T02:54:54 < jadew> which is at the end
2020-04-05T02:54:56 < Cracki> meditate on a logistic curve
2020-04-05T02:54:57 < jadew> so... too late
2020-04-05T02:55:07 < R2COM> what too late?
2020-04-05T02:55:10 < R2COM> lol
2020-04-05T02:55:17 < Cracki> we can not-get-alarmed by the numbers we have, which is the 0.x% death rate for healthy people
2020-04-05T02:55:29 < jadew> if you get alarmed by the absolute number, then you have waited too long - it's too late at that point
2020-04-05T02:55:34 < jadew> what we have now is the fucking trend
2020-04-05T02:55:37 < jadew> which looks awful
2020-04-05T02:55:45 < Cracki> wat do
2020-04-05T02:55:51 < jadew> even compared with every other awful shit to hit the earth in recent history
2020-04-05T02:55:52 < R2COM> everyone is already alarmed and takes necessary precaution, hello? you hear it? noone needs your dummy panic predictions
2020-04-05T02:55:53 < Cracki> wat do
2020-04-05T02:55:58 < R2COM> it just brings annoyance and disruption
2020-04-05T02:56:11 < rajkosto> no, people are fucking stupid and arent doing jack shit
2020-04-05T02:56:16 < jadew> I think comparing it with the flu brings more harm
2020-04-05T02:56:20 < rajkosto> or doing stuff wrong
2020-04-05T02:56:31 < rajkosto> because muh inconvenience
2020-04-05T02:56:43 < Cracki> yes, barring productive members of society from working, that does harm
2020-04-05T02:56:52 < Cracki> that forces people into poverty
2020-04-05T02:56:53 < jadew> this is not the fucking flu, and you can't compare the annual death rates of the flu with the death rate of something that's just beginning and then say "look, the flu is worse."
2020-04-05T02:56:56 < R2COM> i do my part and take all precautions
2020-04-05T02:57:06 < R2COM> jadew YO, we know bro
2020-04-05T02:57:08 < Cracki> why can you not compare death rates
2020-04-05T02:57:10 < Cracki> explain that pls
2020-04-05T02:57:16 < Cracki> I think you can compare death rates
2020-04-05T02:57:41 < Cracki> death rates are well established and independent of how fast it spreads (except when health systems are crashing)
2020-04-05T02:57:44 < jadew> Cracki, because we don't have a clear picture of that yet
2020-04-05T02:57:55 < Cracki> why do you say that?
2020-04-05T02:57:55 < jadew> but we do have a clear picture on the number of deaths
2020-04-05T02:58:16 < Cracki> we have quite clear numbers on how many infected people survive
2020-04-05T02:58:23 < qyx> no
2020-04-05T02:58:25 < Cracki> except number of infections are underreported
2020-04-05T02:58:26 < jadew> Cracki, because everyone is testing non-dead people based on different criteria
2020-04-05T02:58:35 < jadew> which makes the total number of confirmed cases an unreliable number
2020-04-05T02:58:38 < Cracki> so you take numbers from places that test much
2020-04-05T02:59:01 < jadew> exactly and in those cases, you end up with death rates that are 20 times higher than seasonal flu
2020-04-05T02:59:07 < qyx> the only real number is the absolute number of covid deaths
2020-04-05T02:59:14 < qyx> or ratio of covid deaths to all deaths
2020-04-05T02:59:18 < Cracki> if you want to question if someone died "with" it, or "from" it, you'd have to exclude everyone with preexisting conditions
2020-04-05T02:59:24 < qyx> but nothing regarding number of infected
2020-04-05T02:59:27 < Cracki> that would remove 95% of all deaths I've heard  of so far
2020-04-05T02:59:44 < qyx> no, I am saying death with confirmed covid
2020-04-05T02:59:52 < qyx> it doesn't matter what was the cause
2020-04-05T02:59:57 < qyx> they are simply dead
2020-04-05T03:00:02 < qyx> and covid was confirmed
2020-04-05T03:00:03 < Cracki> yes, so far wuflu-attributed deaths are a small fraction of total expected deaths from life expectancy
2020-04-05T03:00:27 < jadew> Cracki, how do you explain what's happening in Italy then?
2020-04-05T03:00:32 < jadew> and Ecuador
2020-04-05T03:00:49 < jadew> why are there more people dying this time of the year?
2020-04-05T03:00:57 < jadew> *much more
2020-04-05T03:01:04 < jadew> are they dying with covid or of covid?
2020-04-05T03:01:16 < Cracki> insufficient hygiene, much touching of friends, very little testing ...
2020-04-05T03:01:41 < Cracki> can you give me some quantitative statements on the italian situation
2020-04-05T03:01:49 < jadew> so... they're dying of something else, but it just happens that they all got covid and there was a surge in the number of deaths from other causes
2020-04-05T03:01:57 < Cracki> certain systems break down if they have only 1% more load than usual
2020-04-05T03:01:59 < jadew> Cracki, I can, give me a sec
2020-04-05T03:02:59 < Cracki> https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S1201971219303285
2020-04-05T03:03:00 < jadew> Cracki, https://nypost.com/2020/03/14/heartbreaking-video-shows-coronavirus-devastating-toll-on-italy/
2020-04-05T03:03:01 < Cracki> random paper
2020-04-05T03:03:16 < R2COM> anyway
2020-04-05T03:03:22 < Cracki> 68k flu deaths in italy for their study period, which is 3 (?) years
2020-04-05T03:03:29 < R2COM> ignore all that and just take proper precautions as suggested
2020-04-05T03:03:41 < Cracki> "heartbreaking video" is where I stop reading
2020-04-05T03:03:47 < qyx> haha
2020-04-05T03:03:48 < Cracki> no numbers follow
2020-04-05T03:03:49 < R2COM> and stop listening to random dudes on irc with some custom plots
2020-04-05T03:04:02 < jadew> Cracki, actually there are numbers
2020-04-05T03:04:06 < Cracki> 1266 deaths it says there
2020-04-05T03:04:13 < jadew> that's 1 and a half vs 10 pages of obituaries
2020-04-05T03:04:16 < R2COM> i mean really, thats all you do; just proper precautions and stay clean and isolate/disinfect
2020-04-05T03:04:17 < Cracki> germany has that many by now
2020-04-05T03:04:22 < Cracki> obits are not death stats
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2020-04-05T03:04:46 < jadew> Cracki, I can't pull death stats out of my ass right now, because this thing is still going on
2020-04-05T03:04:50 < Cracki> agreed, wash yo dikk and that's all
2020-04-05T03:04:53 < Cracki> :D
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2020-04-05T03:05:24 < qyx> so 68k/3y deaths of flu
2020-04-05T03:05:25 < rajkosto> wash ALL the potatoes you buy
2020-04-05T03:05:27 < rajkosto> INDIVIDUALLY
2020-04-05T03:05:32 < rajkosto> you filthy animals
2020-04-05T03:05:36 < Cracki> wash yo potatoes
2020-04-05T03:05:41 < qyx> vs 15k/1mo deaths of covid
2020-04-05T03:05:41 < jadew> qyx, where's that from?
2020-04-05T03:05:51 < qyx> jadew: idk, Cracki said from that paper
2020-04-05T03:05:53 < jadew> oh, in Italy
2020-04-05T03:05:54 < Cracki> flu *seasons*
2020-04-05T03:06:06 < Cracki> we are in covid season rn
2020-04-05T03:06:07 < jadew> Cracki, well, covid season is all year round
2020-04-05T03:06:10 < Cracki> not yet
2020-04-05T03:06:19 < jadew> that's what the EUCDC says
2020-04-05T03:06:21 < Cracki> we don't know enough yet to assert that
2020-04-05T03:06:21 < R2COM> not just wash, submerge it in deep plate under hot running water for 10 mins after initial wash
2020-04-05T03:06:33 < R2COM> and wash hands after you wash
2020-04-05T03:06:35 < Cracki> never believe anything that comes out of any EU org
2020-04-05T03:06:47 < Cracki> cook yo taters
2020-04-05T03:07:05 < rajkosto> wash your bread
2020-04-05T03:07:12 < Cracki> yo dawg wash yo hands while yo wash yo hands
2020-04-05T03:07:17 < Cracki> wash your cotton candy
2020-04-05T03:07:28 < R2COM> no, just put your bread in the heat oven for few mins and heat it up well before eating
2020-04-05T03:07:37 < Cracki> bake yo bread
2020-04-05T03:07:56 < rajkosto> https://youtu.be/eP0hswhXmMQ not like this tho
2020-04-05T03:07:57 < Cracki> bake yo bread twice like a goddamn german
2020-04-05T03:07:58 < rajkosto> needs to be with soap
2020-04-05T03:08:09 < Cracki> cook yo soap before eating it
2020-04-05T03:08:20 < Cracki> srsly who the fuck washes bread
2020-04-05T03:08:28 < rajkosto> i wash the bread bag it comes with
2020-04-05T03:08:32 < Cracki> is that howtobasic
2020-04-05T03:08:32 < rajkosto> cuz someone could have coofed on it
2020-04-05T03:08:58 < Cracki> I coof in your general direction https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QSo0duY7-9s
2020-04-05T03:09:08 < Cracki> mein coof, google it :D
2020-04-05T03:11:14 < Cracki> if I had a plot of land, I'd start plans for a nice bunker
2020-04-05T03:11:34 < jadew> you don't need a bunker
2020-04-05T03:11:42 < Cracki> but I want one!
2020-04-05T03:11:57 < rajkosto> you just need a stocked basement so you never have to go out
2020-04-05T03:12:02 < Cracki> ^
2020-04-05T03:12:09 < rajkosto> that is
2020-04-05T03:12:10 < jadew> might be a problem hooking it up to the sewage pipe
2020-04-05T03:12:12 < Cracki> that and enough land to grow some shit
2020-04-05T03:12:18 < rajkosto> until the roving raids come to your basement to steal shit
2020-04-05T03:12:20 < rajkosto> then you need a bunker
2020-04-05T03:12:29 < R2COM> what everyone needs to do once the shit is over is sue china with all world
2020-04-05T03:12:33 < Cracki> buy a hill, shit rolls downhill
2020-04-05T03:12:35 < R2COM> make them pay reparations
2020-04-05T03:12:52 < jadew> I agree about suing china
2020-04-05T03:12:52 < R2COM> or id propose even better thing to usa, dont return back their debt, as compensation 
2020-04-05T03:12:57 < Cracki> yes milk the reparation bucks
2020-04-05T03:13:18 < jadew> well, I don't care what the US does, but I think china should be made to pay for this
2020-04-05T03:13:27 < R2COM> those bastards did not inform and close borders in timely manner
2020-04-05T03:13:29 < Cracki> apropos soggy bread: soak some TP in milk and egg, then fry it
2020-04-05T03:13:51 < jadew> it's not that they didn't inform, they did everything in their power to lie about this
2020-04-05T03:14:03 < jadew> and the data they reported was all garbage
2020-04-05T03:14:12 < Cracki> quadratic fit <3
2020-04-05T03:14:19 < jadew> (even tho, it was alarming even at that point)
2020-04-05T03:14:21 < jadew> http://188.25.126.97/stuff/ncov/day-35/deaths.png
2020-04-05T03:14:25 < jadew> that's china data
2020-04-05T03:14:25 < Cracki> *that* were numbers out of someone's explosive shit spewing ass
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2020-04-05T03:19:01 < karlp> jadew: you'll be happy to knw that yeast is sold out in iceland too :)
2020-04-05T03:19:10 < jadew> karlp, hah!
2020-04-05T03:19:12 < rajkosto> here its currently day 30 with no yeast cubes
2020-04-05T03:19:17 < rajkosto> how could this happen
2020-04-05T03:19:45 < rajkosto> cant make my pizza super fluffy
2020-04-05T03:19:55 < jadew> people don't normally buy yeast, and now everyone suddenly does and in big quantities
2020-04-05T03:20:01 < Cracki> do your own yeast
2020-04-05T03:20:04 < rajkosto> i buy it every time i buy flour
2020-04-05T03:20:07 < rajkosto> but flour is available everywhere
2020-04-05T03:20:10 < Cracki> blue waffle is a gourmet yeast strain
2020-04-05T03:20:25 < rajkosto> not yeast cuboids
2020-04-05T03:20:30 < Cracki> you can buy flour from small local mills. germans discover their neighbors right now
2020-04-05T03:20:34 < rajkosto> or even powdered yeast, gotta use "baking flour"
2020-04-05T03:20:35 < jadew> rajkosto, yeah, but you don't buy 20kg of flour at once
2020-04-05T03:20:40 < Cracki> buy a 5 kg sack instead of the industrial 50kg one
2020-04-05T03:20:55 < rajkosto> i just buy 1kg of flour and one yeast cube to go with it
2020-04-05T03:21:00 < rajkosto> can still get the flour but not yeast
2020-04-05T03:21:04 < rajkosto> and flour is available in big bags
2020-04-05T03:21:24 < BrainDamage> here's the opposite, flour is scarce, yeast still available
2020-04-05T03:21:29 < rajkosto> export
2020-04-05T03:21:30 < Cracki> buy a ton of flour, do a neighborhood fest
2020-04-05T03:21:31 < rajkosto> the yeast
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2020-04-05T03:21:52 < BrainDamage> why can't you make a sourdough starter
2020-04-05T03:22:00 < rajkosto> yeast is made by same company that alcohol is
2020-04-05T03:22:12 < rajkosto> and theres no alcohol anywhere either obviously (all used for hand sanitizer)
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2020-04-05T03:22:26 < jadew> rajkosto, oh no...
2020-04-05T03:22:31 < jadew> I have to stock up on beer then
2020-04-05T03:22:34 < rajkosto> no
2020-04-05T03:22:37 < rajkosto> not that kind of alcohol
2020-04-05T03:22:37 < Cracki> use gasoline for hand disinfection, what could go wrong
2020-04-05T03:22:42 < rajkosto> pure ethanol
2020-04-05T03:22:44 < jadew> ah...
2020-04-05T03:22:46 < jadew> pfew..
2020-04-05T03:22:53 < BrainDamage> high temp also kills the virus, ignite the gas for best effect
2020-04-05T03:22:55 < rajkosto> < 60% concentrations are useless
2020-04-05T03:23:27 < Cracki> you mean to say vodka is too dilute?
2020-04-05T03:23:32 < rajkosto> yeah only 40%
2020-04-05T03:23:37 < Cracki> boo
2020-04-05T03:23:42 < BrainDamage> you can concentrate it easily
2020-04-05T03:23:58 < BrainDamage> dissolve a shitload of salt, then wait for gravity separation
2020-04-05T03:24:11 < rajkosto> go ahead
2020-04-05T03:24:22 < Cracki> salt. didn't expect that.
2020-04-05T03:24:22 < BrainDamage> salt is insoluble in ethanol, but it is in water
2020-04-05T03:24:43 < BrainDamage> it'll change the specific gravity of the water, so that ethanol will start to separate
2020-04-05T03:24:48 < BrainDamage> and it'll make a layer
2020-04-05T03:24:52 < jadew> or you could make a make-shift distillery
2020-04-05T03:25:02 < jadew> you don't need much
2020-04-05T03:25:03 < Cracki> ethanol and water have similar specific gravity?
2020-04-05T03:25:08 < BrainDamage> yes
2020-04-05T03:25:11 < Cracki> neat
2020-04-05T03:25:31 < Cracki> I think I'll have to do a science experiment
2020-04-05T03:25:38 < BrainDamage> I've also concentrated H2O2 this way
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2020-04-05T03:26:07 < BrainDamage> you won't get a pure solution, but it'll increase concentration considerably
2020-04-05T03:26:34 < Cracki> I wonder how widespread this forbidden knowledge is among teenage alcoholics
2020-04-05T03:26:42 < rajkosto> i mean
2020-04-05T03:26:46 < rajkosto> you dont need a high concentration to get drunk
2020-04-05T03:26:47 < rajkosto> just drink more
2020-04-05T03:26:51 < rajkosto> tastes better too
2020-04-05T03:26:56 < Cracki> all my class mates knew is to drink tequila with salt and lemon
2020-04-05T03:27:02 < Cracki> (in the right order)
2020-04-05T03:27:40 < jadew> I think I've heard about putting salt in alcohol, but I can't remember the context
2020-04-05T03:28:38 < BrainDamage> Cracki: you can diy test the ethanol content the old way, by "proofing" it
2020-04-05T03:28:52 < Cracki> that involved gun powder didn't it
2020-04-05T03:29:02 < Cracki> and 100 proof is when the stuff barely burns
2020-04-05T03:29:04 < BrainDamage> yes, but absolutely unnecessary
2020-04-05T03:29:11 < Cracki> which was around 75% vol or so
2020-04-05T03:29:39 < Cracki> sounds like typical imperial nonsense units tbh
2020-04-05T03:30:02 < BrainDamage> you can just warm the solution so that vapours are emitted
2020-04-05T03:30:14 < BrainDamage> this also lets you lower the treshold for flammability
2020-04-05T03:30:42 < BrainDamage> eg even 30% or so will be flammable if it's near boiling
2020-04-05T03:30:49 < Cracki> :D
2020-04-05T03:31:59 < Cracki> oh, ethanol specific gravity 0.79. i guess adding alt changes solubility too
2020-04-05T03:32:04 < Cracki> +s
2020-04-05T03:32:22 < BrainDamage> back in the times thermometers weren't as common as today
2020-04-05T03:32:37 < BrainDamage> so heating up was a less reliable method
2020-04-05T03:33:00 < BrainDamage> also for some reason us lacked ... scales
2020-04-05T03:33:09 < BrainDamage> so they measure their ingredients volumetrically
2020-04-05T03:33:10 < BrainDamage> ew
2020-04-05T03:33:35 < BrainDamage> "1 cup of flour" - loose or compact?
2020-04-05T03:33:55 < BrainDamage> and what if I CBA to sift my flour to make it loose
2020-04-05T03:34:06 < Cracki> a spoon of something. heaped or not
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2020-04-05T03:35:41 < Cracki> chem teacher showed us once that volume doesn't just add. took vol x of something and vol y of something else, it was less than x+y
2020-04-05T03:36:07 < Cracki> both were liquids of course
2020-04-05T03:36:15 < BrainDamage> just take salt and water and it becomes clear
2020-04-05T03:36:59 < Cracki> ah, polarity https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/separate-liquids-with-salt/
2020-04-05T03:36:59 < BrainDamage> you can do it even with solids though
2020-04-05T03:37:07 < BrainDamage> coarse pebbles and sand
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2020-04-05T03:41:03 < Cracki> >Rubbing alcohol molecules have a polar and nonpolar part
2020-04-05T03:41:41 < Cracki> water-alcohol-oil mixture, wonder what that would do
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2020-04-05T03:42:12 < BrainDamage> rubbing alcohol is water + alcohol
2020-04-05T03:42:44 < Cracki> scientific american is pop sci. I hope they mean IPA
2020-04-05T03:44:24 < rajkosto> rubbing alcohol the mericans usually mean IPA
2020-04-05T03:44:33 < rajkosto> which is ethanol mixed with methanol to make it poisonous and non drinkable
2020-04-05T03:44:50 < BrainDamage> ... but IPA is not ethanol ...
2020-04-05T03:44:58 < BrainDamage> what kind of mess is that
2020-04-05T03:45:11 < rajkosto> theres no IPA here, just ethanol
2020-04-05T03:45:18 < rajkosto> i know they put methanol so you cant make booze with it
2020-04-05T03:46:25 < rajkosto> they do that in "no fun allowed" countries like UK
2020-04-05T03:47:44 < BrainDamage> here they add bitterants instead
2020-04-05T03:47:54 < BrainDamage> they just make it unsavory rather than toxic
2020-04-05T03:48:26 < BrainDamage> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Denatonium_benzoate
2020-04-05T03:49:52 < BrainDamage> >The video game company Nintendo applies a coating containing denatonium benzoate to the game cards for their Nintendo Switch gaming console to deter children from ingesting them due to their small size.[13] 
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2020-04-05T03:53:37 < Cracki> that tidbit went around the internet once. everyone started licking their cards
2020-04-05T03:58:45 < rajkosto> and older cards were more disgusting than newer ones
2020-04-05T03:58:53 < rajkosto> first party titles the strongest bitterness
2020-04-05T03:59:06 < Cracki> makes them more valuable for dumb stunts
2020-04-05T03:59:34 < Cracki> imagine the yt vids "brave enough to lick the most disgusting card?"
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2020-04-05T04:25:30 < jly> i can make fentanyl out of spider venom
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2020-04-05T04:30:08 < rajkosto> fentanyl isnt in short supply
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2020-04-05T04:50:58 < jly> is when you're in a cambodian jail cell
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2020-04-05T07:19:13 < aandrew> jadew: my wife got off bb
2020-04-05T07:21:59 < aandrew> Damnit. Got off the phone with her sister in Timis: apparently ambulances are simply not coming when you call; they tell you to calm down, it’s just a cold and they’ll get there eventually. 
2020-04-05T07:22:34 < aandrew> The paramedics don’t want to catch it
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2020-04-05T07:34:10 < Cracki> lol wat
2020-04-05T07:34:37 < Cracki> sure, an ambulance shouldn't just come when you have "something
2020-04-05T07:34:52 < Cracki> they'll come when you have trouble breathing
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2020-04-05T07:42:38 < aandrew> Cracki: you’re missing the point. They aren’t kmingejrn people are saying holy fuck I can’t breathe
2020-04-05T07:42:57 < Cracki> uhhhhh
2020-04-05T07:43:27 < Cracki> timis romania?
2020-04-05T07:44:17 < aandrew> Here in Canada I you call 911 they come. They’ll charge you if it’s unnecessary or you’re abusing the system but they don’t say “it’s just a cold, relax, we’ll get there eventually”
2020-04-05T07:44:25 < aandrew> Yes 
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2020-04-05T07:46:15 < Cracki> so they really just don't want to? they aren't swamped and refuse because of that?
2020-04-05T07:47:16 < aandrew> Can’t say for sure, but my sister in law isn’t one to exaggerate or be dramatic
2020-04-05T07:47:39 < Cracki> now I'm wondering if that was one instance, several, or a policy
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2020-04-05T11:09:25 < Steffanx> Hmpf it was coronizzle night again. 
2020-04-05T11:15:13 < PaulFertser> What makes a night coronizzle?
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2020-04-05T11:49:47 < jadew> aandrew, it could be one of two things, the ambulance workers refuse to take the case or they are simply swamped
2020-04-05T11:50:03 < jadew> both situations seem bad
2020-04-05T11:50:31 < jadew> https://i.imgur.com/2WCJ9yk.mp4
2020-04-05T11:54:12 < jly> hmmm why did I click on that link
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2020-04-05T11:57:19 < Streaker> imgur links are ok. bitcheese links you need to worry about
2020-04-05T11:57:40 < Steffanx> You should be like this more jadew http://imgur.com/a/vyTCxRt
2020-04-05T11:58:17 < jadew> I don't come across as peaceful?
2020-04-05T11:58:27 < Steffanx> Lol I wrote pieceful. Lol
2020-04-05T11:58:42 < jadew> oh, you uploaded that
2020-04-05T11:58:48 < Steffanx> Oops
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2020-04-05T11:58:57 < jadew> pieceful makes sense too
2020-04-05T11:59:07 < Steffanx> Nah, typo much
2020-04-05T11:59:56 < jly> ty for cat Steffanx 
2020-04-05T12:00:13 < Steffanx> Yeah a nice piece
2020-04-05T12:00:34 < boddax> HOW YOU COOK IT sTEFFANX ?
2020-04-05T12:00:46 < boddax> ops inversed keys
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2020-04-05T12:02:15 < Steffanx> On a pizza in the oven, boddax
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2020-04-05T12:06:45 < jadew> mmm, I want a pizza
2020-04-05T12:06:55 < jly> I had one for lunch
2020-04-05T12:07:02 < jly> the shop didn't poison me
2020-04-05T12:07:12 < jadew> I'll go ask my wife if she loves me
2020-04-05T12:08:40 < jly> I hope she does
2020-04-05T12:09:25 < jadew> I didn't ask. I'll save that move for later, because she's already making scrambled eggs.
2020-04-05T12:09:35 < jadew> which is also a good option
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2020-04-05T12:31:30 < boddax> pizzacattomato
2020-04-05T12:35:55 < Steffanx> Somehow tomatio would sound better
2020-04-05T12:36:00 < Steffanx> Imhio 
2020-04-05T12:38:15 < boddax> thata a tomatillo  mexican thing i guess spicy mot tomatio
2020-04-05T12:38:59 < boddax> we have mexican here channel?
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2020-04-05T12:46:58 < boddax> with altiom one single bus i can add many signals ex. D0...D8 , A0...A16 , etc.. etc..  ?
2020-04-05T12:47:18 < zyp> you probably want a harness
2020-04-05T12:47:26 < boddax> i mean one single bus line ..
2020-04-05T12:47:30 < jly> a horse too
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2020-04-05T12:48:25 < zyp> boddax, think of a bus as an array, a harness as a struct
2020-04-05T12:48:57 < zyp> if you want a number of same named signals, you want a bus, if you want to group differently named signals, you want a harness
2020-04-05T12:49:41 < boddax> all right but whats harness? 
2020-04-05T12:50:02 < zyp> https://bin.jvnv.net/file/UzlV8.png <- the light blue thing
2020-04-05T12:51:34 < boddax> ah ok thanks
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2020-04-05T13:41:04 < Steffanx> How much did you pay for your altium loicense boddax?
2020-04-05T13:58:13 < jly> about tree fiddy
2020-04-05T13:59:49 < benishor> which  equates to how maniez dollahs?
2020-04-05T14:07:14 < phr3ak> what is the best way to replace putch function if I use stdio? so I would like to make printf to use my putch function
2020-04-05T14:09:44 < jly> I got a '93 toyota paseo in the parking lot... let's get outta here
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2020-04-05T14:13:14 < boddax> 10.000 thausand eurobonz
2020-04-05T14:16:19 < Steffanx> damn, is that what where my EU money goes boddax?
2020-04-05T14:19:17 < boddax> mmhh very weird ...they say since still europe every single italian lost -76k euro ..and germany and dutch people +26k and +23k euro ..the counts don't come back 
2020-04-05T14:21:35 < Steffanx> That's an italian source for sure :P
2020-04-05T14:21:55 < boddax> said by Mr free Rutte
2020-04-05T14:22:31 < boddax> where's gone BrainDamage ..no more msg
2020-04-05T14:22:55 < boddax> pls BrainDamaged confirm
2020-04-05T14:23:13 < BrainDamage> what, I spoke yesterday
2020-04-05T14:23:18 < jly> Hi BrainDamage 
2020-04-05T14:23:22 < boddax> eheh
2020-04-05T14:23:24 < BrainDamage> hello
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2020-04-05T14:23:40 < boddax> still alive thats good for the tempi che corrono
2020-04-05T14:24:18 < BrainDamage> my physical health has been rock solid ever since I got into my teens
2020-04-05T14:25:00 < boddax> all right
2020-04-05T14:25:31 < BrainDamage> chances are I caught the shit and just had the asymptomatic form, but I'll wait for the antibodies test
2020-04-05T14:26:15 < boddax> me too i had 3 days feel super tired and my breath heavy if upstair
2020-04-05T14:27:00 < jly> yeah I tend to knock out almost anything in a few days myself, I probably had it too lol
2020-04-05T14:27:06 < boddax> heart beat fast and sweating doing nothing last week
2020-04-05T14:27:26 < jly> I remember this filthy looking asian person coughing like they were dead in the first week of feb...
2020-04-05T14:27:59 < boddax> then also my eyes burning some days before
2020-04-05T14:28:44 < Steffanx> pollen
2020-04-05T14:29:30 < boddax> nah ..i dont have any allergy
2020-04-05T14:29:46 < boddax> never had since born
2020-04-05T14:30:20 < BrainDamage> fwiw, you can develop allergies any time in your life
2020-04-05T14:30:28 < boddax> but now im ok im 35 that days i feel 135 years old
2020-04-05T14:30:31 < Steffanx> ^ 
2020-04-05T14:30:37 < Steffanx> nice age.
2020-04-05T14:30:44 < jly> yeah totally
2020-04-05T14:31:13 < jly> I'm 34.94
2020-04-05T14:31:34 < jly> don't tell steffan i'm old though
2020-04-05T14:34:14 < Steffanx> Grandpa
2020-04-05T14:35:42 < jly> welcome
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2020-04-05T15:22:32 < Steffanx> Is grandpa asleep yet?
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2020-04-05T15:24:43 < Mangy_Dog> im 37 :(
2020-04-05T15:24:55 < Mangy_Dog> is it my time to do the logn sleep now? D:
2020-04-05T15:25:03 < Mangy_Dog> long
2020-04-05T15:27:30 < boddax> you mean ethernal sleep?
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2020-04-05T15:35:14 < Mangy_Dog> nods
2020-04-05T15:47:54 < Steffanx> are you down under as well Mangy_Dog?
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2020-04-05T16:17:29 < Mangy_Dog> uk
2020-04-05T16:17:42 < Mangy_Dog> i just feel old :p
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2020-04-05T16:28:02 < jadew> we should all meet up and go nuts like we were in our early 20s
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2020-04-05T16:29:26 < antto> jadew grate idea
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2020-04-05T16:33:45 < antto> i get sick a few times every year.. don't like pillz and drugs at all.. i've only chewed a few algozone's when teeth hurt
2020-04-05T16:34:45 < antto> and last year i got a pretty swollen arm after mosquitto bytes that wasn't like other times, so i went to ze doctor and they gave me a recipe for some fancy injection
2020-04-05T16:35:42 < mawk> bytes
2020-04-05T16:35:49 < antto> * bites
2020-04-05T16:35:55 < antto> too much coding ;P~
2020-04-05T16:35:55 < mawk> you do too much computing
2020-04-05T16:35:58 < mawk> you see bytes everywhere
2020-04-05T16:36:14 < antto> i'm wurking on ze svd pars0r
2020-04-05T16:36:34 < mawk> singular value decomposition ?
2020-04-05T16:36:44 < mawk> oh cmsis stuff maybe
2020-04-05T16:36:51 < antto> yes
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2020-04-05T16:43:38 < Steffanx> hows your COVID-0x13 mawk?
2020-04-05T16:44:03 < mawk> I don't know
2020-04-05T16:44:12 < mawk> every day I have a bit of fever for a few hours
2020-04-05T16:44:15 < mawk> then I take magic pillz
2020-04-05T16:44:17 < mawk> and it goes away
2020-04-05T16:44:24 < mawk> paracetamol and caffeine
2020-04-05T16:45:46 < Steffanx> wut
2020-04-05T16:46:46 < mawk> what
2020-04-05T16:47:01 < Steffanx> fever for 2 weeks in a row?
2020-04-05T16:47:24 < mawk> yes
2020-04-05T16:47:27 < mawk> but less and less over time
2020-04-05T16:47:27 < karlp> phr3ak: I found it easier to implment _write rather than  putch, but you can probably implement a variety of syscalls
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2020-04-05T17:18:25 < lux> mawk: you probably shouldn't take paracetamol
2020-04-05T17:20:21 < boddax> dont think chang mawk in china has paracetamol
2020-04-05T17:21:52 < mawk> why lux 
2020-04-05T17:22:03 < mawk> I'm not chinese boddax 
2020-04-05T17:23:09 < boddax> i know you from Romania
2020-04-05T17:23:32 < mawk> nooo
2020-04-05T17:24:31 < jpa-> lux: why not?
2020-04-05T17:24:34 < boddax> Dutchmania?
2020-04-05T17:24:51 < antto> Somewherelandia
2020-04-05T17:25:09 < lux> apparently fever is good for you in the case of corona
2020-04-05T17:25:16 < lux> at least if it's not too high
2020-04-05T17:25:30 < jpa-> lux: source?
2020-04-05T17:25:50 < antto> i thought the high body temperature doesn't bother teh corizzle vizzle
2020-04-05T17:25:52 < boddax> take something to down fever its ok
2020-04-05T17:25:54 < lux> the medcram guy said it https://www.youtube.com/user/MEDCRAMvideos/videos
2020-04-05T17:26:09 < lux> but dunno which video anymore
2020-04-05T17:26:19 < mawk> boddax: NL yes
2020-04-05T17:26:57 < jpa-> lux: are you sure you aren't confusing with ibuprofen?
2020-04-05T17:27:06 < lux> also kinda makes sense, your body ups the temperature for fighting the virus, if you take something to stop that it's probably not good
2020-04-05T17:27:23 < boddax> common thing in case of corona when in descend stage you loss the taste
2020-04-05T17:27:24 < lux> paracetamol also lowers the fever
2020-04-05T17:27:38 < antto> lux but corizzle comes from bats which normally have higher body temperature than us
2020-04-05T17:28:15 < lux> lol
2020-04-05T17:28:22 < lux> that argument
2020-04-05T17:28:23 < antto> that's what i remember from our doctors here on TV, but i didn't pay much attention tbh
2020-04-05T17:28:49 < lux> sure most animals have a higher body temperature
2020-04-05T17:29:40 < jpa-> the elevated temperature is a generic response to many kinds of infections though, it would be interesting if there is actual research on its effect on coronavirus
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2020-04-05T17:30:45 < lux> jpa-: aparently they treated the spanish flu with hot/cold therapy and it seemed to improve things
2020-04-05T17:30:59 < lux> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EFRwnhfWXxo
2020-04-05T17:31:12 < jpa-> quite irrelevant
2020-04-05T17:31:12 < lux> but the data from back then isn't up to todays standards
2020-04-05T17:32:03 < lux> jpa-: why ?
2020-04-05T17:32:26 < lux> people also died from pneumonia with the spanish flu
2020-04-05T17:32:36 < jpa-> because what applies to one disease may or may not apply to another, they are not even closely related and affect different parts of the body also
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2020-04-05T17:33:31 < lux> yeah that's the case, but it's all we have as a reference
2020-04-05T17:34:15 < antto> i have a banana for scale
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2020-04-05T17:38:34 < Steffanx> Keep your banana in your pants please.
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2020-04-05T17:57:37 < jadew> so far it seems that they may be a link between ibuprofen and the high death rate in Italy, but at the same time, people/doctors might be making assumptions based on faulty WHO data
2020-04-05T17:58:22 < jadew> the death rate in Italy might not be any different than in any other country, so there wouldn't be any reason to suspect any drug that the italians were taking
2020-04-05T17:58:54 < jadew> however, ibuprofen does have an anti-inflamatory effect (that's why you're taking it usually), and that might not be what you want
2020-04-05T17:59:09 < jadew> at least not in the early stages of the disease, when the inflamation is on your side
2020-04-05T17:59:48 < jadew> they do use anti-inflamatories in the hospital, in SARS cases
2020-04-05T18:00:02 < jadew> but they're different than ibuprofen in a way I don't understand
2020-04-05T18:00:48 < jadew> bottom line is that it's not clear weather ibuprofen could make thing worse or not, but if you have to lower your fever, you better use something else
2020-04-05T18:01:09 < jadew> just to be sure
2020-04-05T18:02:16 < jadew> (paracetamol)
2020-04-05T18:02:55 < englishman> jpa doesnt have it because he's either in the sauna or naked in a snowbank
2020-04-05T18:03:10 < englishman> nordic spa is the solution
2020-04-05T18:04:12 < englishman> excessive irc chat is the primary cause of coronavirus
2020-04-05T18:06:34 < englishman> tesla had to remove the HAL9000 image from sentry mode
2020-04-05T18:06:39 < englishman> replaced with a portal turret
2020-04-05T18:06:51 < jadew> copyright?
2020-04-05T18:19:28 < Mangy_Dog> anyone here good at figuring out h and v syn timings from ili based display datasheets? Im having trouble finding stable settings for my gameduino  (ft810) display chip
2020-04-05T18:29:59 < boddax_> ILI9341?
2020-04-05T18:32:02 < Mangy_Dog> a display type
2020-04-05T18:32:07 < Mangy_Dog> using rgb paralell mode
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2020-04-05T19:02:01 < emeb> I only use ILI9341 in self refresh mode. What stability trouble do you have?
2020-04-05T19:03:00 < Mangy_Dog> well it kinda just .... goes white after a while
2020-04-05T19:03:06 < Mangy_Dog> it also flickers before then
2020-04-05T19:03:17 < Mangy_Dog> something i guess due to the wrong timings being sent through
2020-04-05T19:03:43 < Mangy_Dog> https://gameduino2.proboards.com/thread/966/correct-hsync-timing-settings-ili9341
2020-04-05T19:03:51 < emeb> if you immediately reset it comes back OK?
2020-04-05T19:03:57 < Mangy_Dog> this is ran in parallel mode
2020-04-05T19:04:04 < Mangy_Dog> no need to let it cool down a few seconds at aleast
2020-04-05T19:04:23 < Mangy_Dog> my guess is the unstable settings ive had might have over clocked the ship
2020-04-05T19:04:25 < Mangy_Dog> chip
2020-04-05T19:04:42 < Mangy_Dog> and it heats up to a point and goes... HAHA no
2020-04-05T19:06:23 < Mangy_Dog> https://www.excamera.com/sphinx/article-ili9488.html is how he got 9488 to run
2020-04-05T19:06:39 < emeb> and the display works fine with other software than your own?
2020-04-05T19:06:41 < Mangy_Dog> i tried to compare his timings to what i found on the porch settings in the datasheet to see how he figured the timings out
2020-04-05T19:06:51 < Mangy_Dog> but no idea how he did cant see anything
2020-04-05T19:07:06 < Mangy_Dog> well i dont have other setups for this display
2020-04-05T19:07:12 < Mangy_Dog> soooo only my software to check on
2020-04-05T19:07:18 < Mangy_Dog> though i have 2 of the displays and it appears they both do it
2020-04-05T19:07:28 < Mangy_Dog> so must assume bad settings
2020-04-05T19:07:50 < emeb> OK - just checking if you had a wonky part. I've had some trouble with flaky ILI displays from cheap china ebay.
2020-04-05T19:07:59 < Mangy_Dog> nods
2020-04-05T19:08:13 < Mangy_Dog> i get my stuff from buydisplay (yes chinese) but so far they been good
2020-04-05T19:08:27 < emeb> buydisplay is generally good stuff.
2020-04-05T19:08:48 < emeb> my troubles have been with 'graymarket' ebay / aliexpress sellers
2020-04-05T19:08:56 < Mangy_Dog> nods
2020-04-05T19:09:41 < emeb> If you had a working software from other source it might be possible to look at the timing with a scope.
2020-04-05T19:10:01 < Mangy_Dog> its not really that
2020-04-05T19:10:07 < Mangy_Dog> the timings are more like counts
2020-04-05T19:10:13 < Mangy_Dog> i think
2020-04-05T19:11:28 < Mangy_Dog> did you look at my forum psot
2020-04-05T19:11:30 < Mangy_Dog> post?
2020-04-05T19:11:57 < Mangy_Dog> do the settings i post make any sense to you?
2020-04-05T19:14:01 < Laurenceb> https://themillenniumreport.com/2020/03/coronavirus-hoax-fake-virus-pandemic-fabricated-to-cover-up-global-outbreak-of-5g-syndrome/
2020-04-05T19:14:11 < Laurenceb> wtf I believe it now
2020-04-05T19:14:17 < Laurenceb> tiem to end free speech
2020-04-05T19:14:17 < emeb> I looked, but since I don't have experience w/ external refresh mode it doesn't make sense to me.
2020-04-05T19:14:20 < Mangy_Dog> my brother has been going on about this
2020-04-05T19:14:34 < Mangy_Dog> hes a conspiracy nut
2020-04-05T19:14:37 < Mangy_Dog> and it really winds me up
2020-04-05T19:14:45 < Steffanx> Laurenceb is Mangy_Dog's secret brotehr
2020-04-05T19:14:48 < Steffanx> brother.
2020-04-05T19:14:48 < Laurenceb> clearly free speech is the problem
2020-04-05T19:15:03 < Laurenceb> if we just let the government tell us what to think there is no problem
2020-04-05T19:16:21 < Laurenceb> https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/technology-52172570
2020-04-05T19:16:39 < kakimir> Mangy_Dog: he is all about 5G?
2020-04-05T19:16:54 < Mangy_Dog> he believes all the crappot ideas
2020-04-05T19:17:01 < Mangy_Dog> hes a 30-40 a day skunk smoker
2020-04-05T19:17:12 < kakimir> that explains a lot
2020-04-05T19:17:29 < Mangy_Dog> it really fucking winds me up
2020-04-05T19:17:40 < emeb> if skunk were outlawed then we'd eliminate crackpots!
2020-04-05T19:18:20 < kakimir> I personally like to read conspiracy theories and think some of them are more than plausible
2020-04-05T19:19:08 < kakimir> but I cannot stand 5G-vaccine tinfoilhat type of maniacs
2020-04-05T19:19:20 < Steffanx> whats the idea behind the anyway?
2020-04-05T19:19:31 < Steffanx> 5G itself causes covid-0x13?
2020-04-05T19:19:51 < kakimir> technology isn't there yet
2020-04-05T19:20:39 < Laurenceb> >radio waves physically create a virus
2020-04-05T19:20:43 < Laurenceb> makes perfect sense
2020-04-05T19:20:51 < kakimir> 5G activates virus given in vaccine to you
2020-04-05T19:20:57 < Laurenceb> lol
2020-04-05T19:21:21 < kakimir> it does some molecular dna-stuff with it's microwave energies!
2020-04-05T19:23:12 < emeb> something something technology is indistinguishable from magic...
2020-04-05T19:23:46 < kakimir> bill gates is the bad guy.. he talked about pandemic 2years ago.. he talked about vaccines -> It's all his planning!1
2020-04-05T19:24:51 < kakimir> Laurenceb: is there study papers about dna-synthesis with microwaves?
2020-04-05T19:26:09 < kakimir> it's horrible if microwaves actually could be used to install virus.. in you
2020-04-05T19:36:16 < englishman> it's not 5g
2020-04-05T19:36:21 < englishman> electric cars cause covid
2020-04-05T19:36:43 < englishman> electric cars caused the Spanish flu 100 years ago and the idea was subsequently abandoned
2020-04-05T19:36:56 < englishman> now they are back and look at th state of the world
2020-04-05T19:37:31 < veverak> :D
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2020-04-05T19:54:09 < kakimir> :O
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2020-04-05T20:04:24 < Laurenceb> keeek Scotland
2020-04-05T20:04:45 < Laurenceb> >chief medical officer cautioned by police for braking quarantine rules
2020-04-05T20:05:10 < Laurenceb> I'm tempted to set some 5g masts on fire for epic troll value now
2020-04-05T20:05:42 < Cracki> how you gonna do that? if you come near them, and you have a snickers in your shirt pocket, the snickers will melt
2020-04-05T20:06:11 < Cracki> maybe radicalize some expendable doofus to do the work for you
2020-04-05T20:06:40 < Laurenceb> keeek this scottish press conference is extra lulzy
2020-04-05T20:08:25 < Steffanx> in your head maybe...
2020-04-05T20:09:43 < jpa-> https://i.redd.it/szr4apk8pzq41.png
2020-04-05T20:10:59 < kakimir> doublekill
2020-04-05T20:23:30 < Steffanx> ty jpa-
2020-04-05T20:23:32 < Steffanx> im scared now
2020-04-05T20:23:55 < jpa-> Steffanx: are you fat?
2020-04-05T20:24:01 < Steffanx> nah
2020-04-05T20:24:10 < Steffanx> i think one can call it slightly overweight though :P
2020-04-05T20:24:34 < Steffanx> Btw dont forget to add that plot thingy next to https://www.populationpyramid.net/italy/2019/ and https://www.populationpyramid.net/united-states-of-america/2019/
2020-04-05T20:24:48 < Steffanx> to show there are quite a bit more oldies in italyland
2020-04-05T20:25:17 < jpa-> yeah, though i think the first graph is "fatality per cases in age group"
2020-04-05T20:25:17 < Steffanx> 2nd best korea is just a different story.
2020-04-05T20:25:26 < Steffanx> oh hm
2020-04-05T20:25:39 < Steffanx> yeah must be that
2020-04-05T20:25:54 < jpa-> but of course e.g. the proportion of people over 80 in the 70+ age group matters
2020-04-05T20:25:59 < Steffanx> yeah
2020-04-05T20:26:35 < mawk> I have to recompile linux kernel
2020-04-05T20:26:40 < mawk> just to play the supernes
2020-04-05T20:26:46 < mawk> because 5.4 has a bug in i915 driver
2020-04-05T20:26:50 < mawk> it oopses and freezes
2020-04-05T20:26:54 < mawk> I just want to play super metroid :(
2020-04-05T20:26:56 < Steffanx> and it's not entirely a fair comparison anyway. How is it going in yankeeland and how long in italy?
2020-04-05T20:27:01 < Steffanx> old people are going to die
2020-04-05T20:27:23 < Steffanx> anyway, nice coronizzle reactivation jpa- :P
2020-04-05T20:27:29 < jpa-> i didn't know USA population is still rising so steadily, seems like most other developed countries have leveled off
2020-04-05T20:28:57 < Laurenceb> thats the mexican population
2020-04-05T20:29:04 < jpa-> oh, and norway population is steadily rising also, but that's probably all thanks to zyp
2020-04-05T20:29:24 < mawk> lol
2020-04-05T20:30:56 < Steffanx> Hmm, i never knew there were so many nigerian princes
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2020-04-05T20:31:29 < mawk> fix my i915 driver Steffanx please
2020-04-05T20:31:32 < Laurenceb> keeek britbong police have been instructed to pour water on unlicensed BBQs
2020-04-05T20:31:32 < mawk> I want to play metroid
2020-04-05T20:31:38 < Laurenceb> >bbq loicense
2020-04-05T20:31:47 < Steffanx> install windows mawk
2020-04-05T20:32:01 < Laurenceb> >running windoze in the current year
2020-04-05T20:32:32 < englishman> haha can't even play games on lunix in 2020
2020-04-05T20:32:56 < Laurenceb> >playing gaymes
2020-04-05T20:33:12 < Steffanx> > wasting time as a channer
2020-04-05T20:33:17 < Laurenceb> >wasting
2020-04-05T20:33:28 < Steffanx> hows doiling Laurenceb?
2020-04-05T20:33:31 < Steffanx> doling
2020-04-05T20:33:38 < Laurenceb> state enforced now
2020-04-05T20:33:48 < Steffanx> dooling. whatever the proper way to write it is.
2020-04-05T20:33:59 < Steffanx> You can still send letters right?
2020-04-05T20:34:01 < Laurenceb> no way to go to jerb interviews
2020-04-05T20:34:02 < Steffanx> or at least write em
2020-04-05T20:34:04 < Laurenceb> maybe...
2020-04-05T20:34:14 < Steffanx> video talks work well
2020-04-05T20:34:28 < Steffanx> oh, webcam on lunix isnt going to work either.
2020-04-05T20:34:30 < Steffanx> so nevermind
2020-04-05T20:34:40 < englishman> nor audio
2020-04-05T20:35:35 < Steffanx> hehe
2020-04-05T20:38:46 < mawk> I was playing fine englishman 
2020-04-05T20:38:49 < mawk> then kernel 5.3 was installed
2020-04-05T20:40:58 < Steffanx> why you need a gpu for snes games btw?
2020-04-05T20:43:41 < mawk> it's not really a gpu
2020-04-05T20:43:47 < mawk> it's the motherboard graphics chipset
2020-04-05T20:43:54 < mawk> well I need it no ?
2020-04-05T20:44:00 < mawk> for any output on the screen
2020-04-05T20:44:21 < mawk> I play with a xbox controller
2020-04-05T20:44:25 < mawk> hardcore snes players would kill me
2020-04-05T20:50:07 < Laurenceb> autism console
2020-04-05T20:50:32 < Cracki> there are snes style controllers with usb
2020-04-05T20:51:22 < BrainDamage> mawk: modern intel graphic units are proper gpus
2020-04-05T20:51:37 < mawk> and crashes like a proper one
2020-04-05T20:51:43 < BrainDamage> yup
2020-04-05T20:52:15 < mawk> I'm lost in the xconfig rabbit hole
2020-04-05T20:52:21 < mawk> enabling everything that looks cool
2020-04-05T20:52:30 < mawk> then I will do make pkg-deb
2020-04-05T20:52:35 < mawk> for extra elegancy
2020-04-05T20:53:24 < BrainDamage> why not just find a prepackaged one
2020-04-05T20:54:48 < mawk> because it pulls in 83983209 deps from unstable
2020-04-05T20:54:53 < mawk> and I don't want to break my distro again
2020-04-05T20:55:02 < mawk> including gcc9, the new libc, and so on
2020-04-05T20:55:10 < BrainDamage> ... a kernel that brings in new deps?
2020-04-05T20:55:19 < mawk> the headers bring the new deps
2020-04-05T20:55:25 < mawk> maybe I can do away without installing the headers tho
2020-04-05T20:56:07 < mawk> Les paquets suivants contiennent des dépendances non satisfaites :
2020-04-05T20:56:09 < mawk>  linux-headers-5.5.0-1-amd64 : Dépend: linux-compiler-gcc-9-x86
2020-04-05T20:56:11 < mawk> E: Impossible de corriger les problèmes, des paquets défectueux sont en mode « garder en l'état ».
2020-04-05T20:56:13 < mawk> see
2020-04-05T20:56:15 < mawk> it wants the ugly compiler
2020-04-05T20:56:34 < mawk> (do you like my french linux Steffanx ?)
2020-04-05T20:57:11 < BrainDamage> why the hell do headers require a compiler
2020-04-05T20:57:20 < BrainDamage> the whole dep chain is fucked up
2020-04-05T21:00:52 < Cracki> preprocessor at least
2020-04-05T21:01:14 < Cracki> these things don't do anything by themselves, sure
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2020-04-05T21:10:21 < Steffanx> I will never understand why someone uses an os on non-english mawk
2020-04-05T21:11:58 < Steffanx> *in
2020-04-05T21:19:42 < jadew> I recommend Vivarium (movie)
2020-04-05T21:22:08 < kakimir> I missed full mask deal
2020-04-05T21:22:14 < jadew> I haven't seen a movie like it in a quite some time (think donnie darko)
2020-04-05T21:22:18 < kakimir> 29eur for french combat mask
2020-04-05T21:22:33 < kakimir> idk why I would want one
2020-04-05T21:22:58 < Steffanx> i wasnt too impressed by donnie darko
2020-04-05T21:23:08 < kakimir> in military service it was one of worst things to pull cold humid smelling mask over your head
2020-04-05T21:23:17 < Steffanx> i watched escape from pretoria. it was weird to see harry potter again
2020-04-05T21:23:29 < kakimir> steff. movie me
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2020-04-05T21:23:47 < Steffanx> No can do
2020-04-05T21:23:55 < jadew> Steffanx, I liked donnie darko at the time
2020-04-05T21:24:02 < jadew> you might not like this one either
2020-04-05T21:24:15 < jadew> personally I needed a movie like this
2020-04-05T21:24:25 < Steffanx> Im not a big fan of Jake Gyllenhaal 
2020-04-05T21:30:23 < jadew> was escape from pretoria good?
2020-04-05T21:31:34 < boddax_> escape from europe 
2020-04-05T21:31:43 < jadew> nowhere else to go
2020-04-05T21:31:43 < mawk> cuz I'm a patriot Steffanx 
2020-04-05T21:39:33  * friendofafriend lets a little air out of the football.
2020-04-05T21:40:21 < Steffanx> it was ok jadew
2020-04-05T21:40:38 < jadew> thanks, I'll give it a try
2020-04-05T21:42:34 < Laurenceb> lol facebook blocked in uk
2020-04-05T21:42:35 < Laurenceb> wew
2020-04-05T21:42:45 < mawk> lol
2020-04-05T21:42:47 < mawk> why
2020-04-05T21:42:48 < Laurenceb> Zuckerberg on suicide watch
2020-04-05T21:42:52 < Laurenceb> 5g coronavirus
2020-04-05T21:43:04 < mawk> really ?
2020-04-05T21:43:07 < mawk> that's stupid
2020-04-05T21:43:08 < Laurenceb> looks like
2020-04-05T21:43:13 < mawk> sauce
2020-04-05T21:43:15 < mawk> plz
2020-04-05T21:43:18 < Laurenceb> gov threatened to block it a few hours ago
2020-04-05T21:43:22 < Laurenceb> now its not loading
2020-04-05T21:43:29 < Laurenceb> maybe zuck ragequit 
2020-04-05T21:43:29 < Cracki> nobody affected.
2020-04-05T21:43:40 < mawk> loicense-obsessed government
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2020-04-05T21:43:55 < Laurenceb> looks like Zuck threw a strop and its not actually been blocked
2020-04-05T21:44:12 < Laurenceb> just timing out
2020-04-05T21:44:20 < mawk> they say technical issues
2020-04-05T21:44:22 < mawk> https://downdetector.co.uk/status/facebook/
2020-04-05T21:44:24 < mawk> here
2020-04-05T21:44:29 < Laurenceb> y -yeah
2020-04-05T21:44:36 < Laurenceb> t-totally technical issues
2020-04-05T21:44:41 < mawk> lol
2020-04-05T21:44:47 < mawk> there are like 8000 reports right now
2020-04-05T21:45:12 < Steffanx> Yes, i will burn that flag in your house one day, mawk
2020-04-05T21:45:15 < mawk> nobody's saying it's a block
2020-04-05T21:45:18 < Steffanx> or just rotate it 90 degrees
2020-04-05T21:45:20 < mawk> Steffanx :(((
2020-04-05T21:47:39 < Steffanx> lol
2020-04-05T21:47:59 < kakimir> maintenance break to remove all tinfoil
2020-04-05T21:48:29 < kakimir> people locked at home start to go crazy
2020-04-05T21:49:24 < catphish> i'm pretty sure nobody is blocking facebook
2020-04-05T21:50:56 < kakimir> who goes to facebook anyway?
2020-04-05T21:51:01 < catphish> i do
2020-04-05T21:51:26 < Laurenceb> facebook is weird
2020-04-05T21:51:35 < Laurenceb> I think I worked out the issue the other day
2020-04-05T21:51:46 < Laurenceb> facebook is ego centered rather than topic centered
2020-04-05T21:51:57 < Laurenceb> so everything revolves around ur profile
2020-04-05T21:51:58 < kakimir> catphish: Laurenceb was the first brit in facebook
2020-04-05T21:52:03 < kakimir> true story
2020-04-05T21:52:04 < Laurenceb> lol not quite
2020-04-05T21:52:07 < kakimir> yes
2020-04-05T21:52:09 < Laurenceb> about 5th or so
2020-04-05T21:52:13 < kakimir> zukk asked you to join
2020-04-05T21:52:18 < Laurenceb> yeah
2020-04-05T21:52:19 < catphish> i never went to university, so didn't have a chance
2020-04-05T21:52:40 < Laurenceb> I ran a uni forum so he emailed me
2020-04-05T21:52:41 < kakimir> you were the 5th most important brit Laurenceb
2020-04-05T21:52:55 < Laurenceb> apparently he mass emailed like thousands of people
2020-04-05T21:53:01 < Laurenceb> I thought he was a crackpot
2020-04-05T21:53:23 < Steffanx> no you did not.
2020-04-05T21:53:41 < catphish> spamming works if you spam the right people :)
2020-04-05T21:53:51 < englishman> https://tuckbot.tv/#/watch/fv9zwq
2020-04-05T21:53:52 < kakimir> jadew: movie time
2020-04-05T21:54:04 < kakimir> what have you found jadew?
2020-04-05T21:54:10 < englishman> click my link Laurenceb 
2020-04-05T21:54:39 < Laurenceb> doesnt load on my machine
2020-04-05T21:54:39 < mawk> nsfw probably
2020-04-05T21:54:44 < mawk> as everything that comes from englishman 
2020-04-05T21:54:53 < englishman> not safe for world
2020-04-05T21:54:59 < Laurenceb> >fails on lunix
2020-04-05T21:55:08 < englishman> doesnt that describe everything
2020-04-05T21:55:30 < catphish> works on my lunix
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2020-04-05T22:18:53 < Steffanx> Cant beat that with logic, englishman
2020-04-05T22:19:10 < Steffanx> because jesus' blood.
2020-04-05T22:20:40 < englishman> I think it's time you found a new ISP Laurenceb
2020-04-05T22:20:47 < englishman> you have all these problems that noone else has
2020-04-05T22:25:36 < catphish> not just Laurenceb it sems
2020-04-05T22:25:41 < catphish> <Cessle> So who broke part of the internet then? Facebook & Instragram appear to be rather broken via Plusnet/BT but Voda on 4G is fine
2020-04-05T22:29:26 < Laurenceb> holy shit Boris just died, hes dead
2020-04-05T22:32:27 < catphish> how dead?
2020-04-05T22:34:28 < Laurenceb> rused
2020-04-05T22:34:43 < Steffanx> How to spread fake news 101
2020-04-05T22:34:50 < catphish> lol
2020-04-05T22:35:08 < catphish> looks like some old woman has taken his place
2020-04-05T22:35:34 < Steffanx> Arent you happy with your queen?
2020-04-05T22:35:51 < Steffanx> You should be happy with Meghan while you still can
2020-04-05T22:36:35 < bitmask> hey booboo
2020-04-05T22:36:50 < catphish> meghan isn't technically our head of state
2020-04-05T22:36:54 < Steffanx> Sorry, booboo just left
2020-04-05T22:37:04 < bitmask> awww
2020-04-05T22:37:21 < bitmask> is corona gone yet?
2020-04-05T22:37:43 < catphish> it hasn't even arrived here yet
2020-04-05T22:37:51 < bitmask> where is here for you
2020-04-05T22:38:07 < catphish> a large house in an obscure part of rural UK
2020-04-05T22:38:13 < bitmask> i see
2020-04-05T22:38:31 < catphish> hoping it never does :)
2020-04-05T22:38:34 < bitmask> I just want my monies then it can go
2020-04-05T22:38:49 < catphish> which monies?
2020-04-05T22:38:50 < bitmask> you guys in the UK getting a coronabonus
2020-04-05T22:39:04 < catphish> boris loves busses
2020-04-05T22:39:37 < bitmask> everyone in the US is getting up to 1200, 93% of people will get the full amount, 2400 for couples and 500 per kid
2020-04-05T22:39:47 < bitmask> only the rich dont get anything
2020-04-05T22:40:32 < Steffanx> free money for bitmask?
2020-04-05T22:40:36 < bitmask> yup
2020-04-05T22:40:49 < bitmask> i'll get the 1200 cause i definitely am not rich
2020-04-05T22:41:30 < bitmask> unfortunately 750 is going to pay my aunt back monies i borrowed, but it will be nice to have that out of the way
2020-04-05T22:42:11 < Steffanx> heh
2020-04-05T22:42:35 < catphish> US are giving *everyone* money?
2020-04-05T22:42:40 < bitmask> yup
2020-04-05T22:42:46 < catphish> did bernie take over or something?
2020-04-05T22:43:07 < Steffanx> Sadly free money doesnt exit
2020-04-05T22:43:09 < Steffanx> exist even
2020-04-05T22:43:12 < bitmask> hah, its part of a 2 trillion plan, businesses are getting the majority of it
2020-04-05T22:43:15 < catphish> why give everyone money? in the UK we're paying the salary of anyone who can't work
2020-04-05T22:44:21 < bitmask> it says donald trump and anyone related to him can't receive the money for their businesses but I think hes trying to do some shady shit to bypass that
2020-04-05T22:45:33 < catphish> i don't quite underdtand, who is getting money?
2020-04-05T22:45:45 < catphish> people? or businesses? or both?
2020-04-05T22:45:57 < bitmask> both
2020-04-05T22:46:57 < catphish> ah okay
2020-04-05T22:47:05 < bitmask> pretty sure its the largest economic bailout ever
2020-04-05T22:49:30 < catphish> well if it works, great
2020-04-05T22:50:35 < catphish> i'm happy enough with replacing lost wages
2020-04-05T22:53:33 < bitmask> well im pretty sure thats what the 1200 is, a lazy version of that.  Instead of having people submit forms they just estimated the average amount people are losing.  that was my take on it anyway
2020-04-05T22:54:19 < bitmask> i gotta start cleaning up my room but im really not feeling it
2020-04-05T22:56:41 < bitmask> anyone have any show recommendations?
2020-04-05T22:56:49 < bitmask> netflix or anything
2020-04-05T22:57:24 < catphish> i'm watching house *again*
2020-04-05T22:57:47 < AndrevS> have you seen the good place? 
2020-04-05T22:57:50 < bitmask> haha ive watched it so many times, i need a long break from it
2020-04-05T22:57:56 < bitmask> no i havent
2020-04-05T22:58:00 < bitmask> heard of it
2020-04-05T22:58:10 < catphish> good place is good, or santa clarita diet
2020-04-05T22:58:43 < AndrevS> But I'm off to bed. Good night
2020-04-05T22:58:48 < catphish> night
2020-04-05T22:58:56 < bitmask> oh right, la casa de papel / money heist has a new season too
2020-04-05T22:59:11 < AndrevS> nice
2020-04-05T22:59:19 < AndrevS> well... I'm off
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2020-04-05T22:59:22 < bitmask> goodnight
2020-04-05T22:59:30 < catphish> i loved s1 of  casa de papel, thought it got weaker after that
2020-04-05T23:00:02 < bitmask> yea i agree, not weak enough to stop watching though, at least not yet
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2020-04-05T23:06:53 < jadew> kakimir, nothing yet
2020-04-05T23:07:12 < jadew> I think I'll just watch the walking dead with my wife and then go to sleep
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2020-04-05T23:09:30 < kakimir> good idea
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2020-04-05T23:11:28 < jadew> kakimir, did you find something good?
2020-04-05T23:11:48 < kakimir> nah
2020-04-05T23:12:03 < kakimir> I have been watchin something brainless in netflix
2020-04-05T23:12:10 < Steffanx> walking dead
2020-04-05T23:12:11 < kakimir> you know stuff you don't even remember next day
2020-04-05T23:12:17 < Steffanx> damnit. is that stuff still going on?
2020-04-05T23:12:34 < Steffanx> i was done with it after watching even 0.1 episode
2020-04-05T23:12:41 < jadew> Steffanx, I'm rewatching it
2020-04-05T23:12:43 < kakimir> wasn't it like a thing in 2008?
2020-04-05T23:12:49 < kakimir> or something
2020-04-05T23:12:57 < jadew> it's like watching a christmas themed movie during christmas time
2020-04-05T23:13:09 < Steffanx> Watch resident evil or something instead then
2020-04-05T23:13:23 < Steffanx> World war z?
2020-04-05T23:13:29 < jadew> saw them too many times
2020-04-05T23:14:10 < Steffanx> watching the walking dead 1 time is too many times
2020-04-05T23:14:37 < jadew> it's a very good thriller
2020-04-05T23:14:45 < Steffanx> no its fucking awful
2020-04-05T23:16:05 < jadew> I'll let them know you didn't like it
2020-04-05T23:17:03 < jadew> which part you had a problem with?
2020-04-05T23:17:11 < Steffanx> "Whoaaa, a mall. We have to be very quiet" "Don't touch anything!!! They will hear us.. sssh" Guy with an alcohol addiction finds the booze in the mall. Some how drops all bottles on the floor. " AAAH tbey heard us"  Roof collapse.
2020-04-05T23:17:12 < jadew> the story, the idea, the acting?
2020-04-05T23:17:14 < Steffanx> i mean DAAMN
2020-04-05T23:17:28 < Steffanx> And yeah, im not convinced by the acting either
2020-04-05T23:17:49 < jadew> I think the interesting part there is the interpersonal relations
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2020-04-05T23:17:59 < jadew> the zombies are just the catalist
2020-04-05T23:18:23 < Steffanx> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tch7i67PHTk this turned into a meme for a good reason :P
2020-04-05T23:19:43 < Steffanx> but yeah Vivarium is much more interesting so far. Waiting for the guy to start a social network and then go back in time though.
2020-04-05T23:19:58 < Steffanx> (Social Network and Butterfly effect guy :P )
2020-04-05T23:20:04 < jadew> heh
2020-04-05T23:26:36 < Laurenceb> https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-52177125
2020-04-05T23:26:42 < Laurenceb> looks like I cried wolf
2020-04-05T23:27:46 < kakimir> BOORIIIS
2020-04-05T23:27:48 < catphish> Laurenceb: lol
2020-04-05T23:27:55 < kakimir> don't die!
2020-04-05T23:28:11 < kakimir> are you a fan Laurenceb?
2020-04-05T23:28:30 < Laurenceb> no I encountered the bullingdon club once
2020-04-05T23:28:43 < Laurenceb> they tried to drop a grand piano on my when I irl trolled them
2020-04-05T23:28:46 < Laurenceb> *me
2020-04-05T23:29:13 < Laurenceb> and threw a wine bottle at my friend
2020-04-05T23:29:16 < Steffanx> oh it wasnt even complete fake new
2020-04-05T23:29:23 < catphish> lol really?
2020-04-05T23:29:32 < kakimir> Laurenceb. What?
2020-04-05T23:29:37 < catphish> i mean, sounds like you deserved the piano :)
2020-04-05T23:29:37 < kakimir> what movie is this?
2020-04-05T23:30:18 < kakimir> sounds like Laurenceb is mixing 1950's animation movies and reality
2020-04-05T23:30:18 < Laurenceb> they were meeting near my room
2020-04-05T23:30:43 < kakimir> how they would have dropped a grand piano on you?
2020-04-05T23:30:50 < Laurenceb> so I went to the stairwell and they were reeing at the people trolling them
2020-04-05T23:30:50 < kakimir> it weights like 300kg
2020-04-05T23:31:02 < Laurenceb> yeah they rolled it to the edge of the stairwell
2020-04-05T23:31:08 < karlp> phr3ak: _write is one of the syscalls that you can implement ala https://github.com/libopencm3/libopencm3-examples/blob/master/examples/stm32/l1/stm32l-discovery/button-irq-printf/main.c#L90-L105
2020-04-05T23:31:11 < Laurenceb> and were going to drop it on us
2020-04-05T23:31:15 < catphish> lmao
2020-04-05T23:31:26 < kakimir> I imagined *cuttingtherope*
2020-04-05T23:31:54 < kakimir> Laurenceb: that's a murder
2020-04-05T23:32:07 < catphish> only if you actually kill someone
2020-04-05T23:32:07 < Laurenceb> bullingdon club get away with anything
2020-04-05T23:32:24 < catphish> that's not really true now is it
2020-04-05T23:32:58 < Laurenceb> they smashed up a pub then paid the owner about 5k to shut up
2020-04-05T23:33:12 < catphish> i was going to say, they could make do with massive bribes
2020-04-05T23:33:16 < catphish> everyone wins :)
2020-04-05T23:33:22 < Laurenceb> then smashed up our dining hall quite badly and nothing happened about it
2020-04-05T23:33:55 < Laurenceb> its so stupid, they smash stuff up because its "a tradition"
2020-04-05T23:34:02 < catphish> is it a perpetual club?
2020-04-05T23:34:21 < Laurenceb> yeah I thought it was a meme before I encountered them irl
2020-04-05T23:34:22 < catphish> or just a briefly existing small group?
2020-04-05T23:35:05 < Laurenceb> it still exists, its top secret and they try to troll people into thinking its going to meet at place x when actually it will be at place y
2020-04-05T23:35:09 < catphish> "occasionally mischievous behaviour, including vandalism of restaurants and students' rooms"
2020-04-05T23:35:09 < catphish> lol
2020-04-05T23:37:16 < catphish> i wonder why those kids are so rich
2020-04-05T23:38:03 < Laurenceb> money from dad
2020-04-05T23:38:14 < catphish> one of my best friends comes from an absurdly rich family, he went to harrow and then oxford, there's no way he's have been allowed to get away with that stuff by his parents
2020-04-05T23:38:54 < catphish> i guess some parents are less responsible
2020-04-05T23:38:56  * Laurenceb was the scholarship kid
2020-04-05T23:39:02 < Laurenceb> designated token chav
2020-04-05T23:39:31 < catphish> i went to private school through a string of good luck
2020-04-05T23:39:56 < catphish> including scholerships
2020-04-05T23:40:27 < Laurenceb> most of my undergrad time I was so wasted/high I cant remember it now :(
2020-04-05T23:40:36 < catphish> lol, i never went to uni
2020-04-05T23:40:56 < catphish> i pretty much hated organized education, so didn't see the point
2020-04-05T23:41:24 < Laurenceb> yeah I'm not sure how useful it all is irl
2020-04-05T23:41:30 < Laurenceb> but uni is very different to school
2020-04-05T23:41:41 < catphish> but my school connections put me in a position to start a software company straight out of school, so i did that instead
2020-04-05T23:41:55 < Laurenceb> a lot of school work is rote learning tier
2020-04-05T23:41:57 < Laurenceb> cool
2020-04-05T23:42:30 < catphish> atech media ltd - 2005 - 2020 (RIP)
2020-04-05T23:45:24 < Steffanx> Lol really catphish ?
2020-04-05T23:45:44 < Steffanx> Did it get coronizzled?
2020-04-05T23:46:13 < catphish> https://twitter.com/atechmedia/status/1240239030752686081
2020-04-05T23:46:55 < catphish> it got purchasificated
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2020-04-05T23:50:04 < karlp> what was/is atechmedia?
2020-04-05T23:50:32  * catphish 's former company
2020-04-05T23:50:43 -!- emeb_mac [~ericb@ip68-2-65-72.ph.ph.cox.net] has joined ##stm32
2020-04-05T23:50:51 < catphish> https://atech.media/ -> https://k.io/
2020-04-05T23:51:55 < catphish> Laurenceb: what do you do when not dying of coronavirus anyway?
2020-04-05T23:52:23 < antto> lick every door handle
2020-04-05T23:59:08 < Steffanx> So catphish  is no longer his boss?
2020-04-05T23:59:17 < Laurenceb> I was working at a uni, but then I got fired
2020-04-05T23:59:31 < Steffanx> Do you miss your russian gf?
2020-04-05T23:59:49 < Laurenceb> lol
2020-04-05T23:59:52 < catphish> Laurenceb: did you kill too many students?
--- Day changed Mon Apr 06 2020
2020-04-06T00:00:05 < Laurenceb> no I visited 4chan one time too many
2020-04-06T00:00:24 < catphish> i'd say 1 time was too many
2020-04-06T00:00:37 < Laurenceb> >inappropriate use of it equipment
2020-04-06T00:00:41 < specing> lol
2020-04-06T00:00:52 < BrainDamage> if that's for real, I told you so
2020-04-06T00:00:53 < catphish> sounds like a shitty job
2020-04-06T00:01:12 < Laurenceb> BrainDamage: russian grrrl hated by ass
2020-04-06T00:01:16 < Laurenceb> *my
2020-04-06T00:01:36 < catphish> the plot thickens
2020-04-06T00:01:41 < Laurenceb> she had video evidence from when she hid in the air conditioning, mission impossible style
2020-04-06T00:01:47 < Steffanx> I bet that's your own fault as well
2020-04-06T00:01:51 < Laurenceb> lol
2020-04-06T00:03:02 < catphish> what?!
2020-04-06T00:03:34 < Steffanx> I think she was done with lb not doing his job :P
2020-04-06T00:03:35 < catphish> this conversation is mildly insane at this point
2020-04-06T00:03:35 < Laurenceb> >grrrl I used to work with got into numerous arguments with me about stupid shit, decided to film me to try to find dirt on me
2020-04-06T00:03:46 < Steffanx> And just visiting the chans all day long
2020-04-06T00:03:51 < Laurenceb> lol
2020-04-06T00:03:57 < englishman> laruent blaming his slacking off and 4chan porn usage on a coworker
2020-04-06T00:03:58 < Laurenceb> it wasnt _that_ bad
2020-04-06T00:04:11 < englishman> it's because she was female!!!
2020-04-06T00:04:32 < Laurenceb> ^ this but unironically
2020-04-06T00:04:39 < qyx> lol were you fired for visiting 4chan?
2020-04-06T00:04:42 < Laurenceb> yes
2020-04-06T00:04:51 < qyx> made my day
2020-04-06T00:05:03 < catphish> nobody gets fired for visiting 4chan, that's surely an excuse
2020-04-06T00:05:04 < Ultrasauce> its probably more the jerking off that did it
2020-04-06T00:05:14 < Laurenceb> keek
2020-04-06T00:05:19 < catphish> you get fired because someone doesn't like you!
2020-04-06T00:05:26 < catphish> kiiik
2020-04-06T00:05:28 < Steffanx> Have you ever visited the dark sides of 4chan?
2020-04-06T00:05:29 < Laurenceb> yeah she hated my ass
2020-04-06T00:05:37 < Steffanx> A good reason to get fired for many.
2020-04-06T00:05:37 < englishman> is there a light side of 4chan
2020-04-06T00:05:44 < catphish> maybe you shouldn't have shown her your ass
2020-04-06T00:05:51 < Laurenceb> lol
2020-04-06T00:06:00 < Steffanx> I can find you some nice cats on there englishman  
2020-04-06T00:06:11 < englishman> https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/montreal/sherbrooke-walmart-coronavirus-hit-and-run-1.5522500
2020-04-06T00:06:16 < englishman> >cant get into walmart
2020-04-06T00:06:20 < englishman> >premeditated murder
2020-04-06T00:06:21 < Laurenceb> well she tried to accuse me of plagiarising her work some 6 months prior
2020-04-06T00:06:41 < Laurenceb> but that didnt work so she was looking for more shit
2020-04-06T00:06:52 < Steffanx> You didnt want to shake her baby?
2020-04-06T00:06:58 < Laurenceb> thing was, my contract finished one week later and I had just been paid
2020-04-06T00:06:59 < Laurenceb> lol
2020-04-06T00:07:04 < Steffanx> Or didnt you want your shaken?
2020-04-06T00:07:24 < Cracki> what retards did you work for that believe a lunatic and participate in this
2020-04-06T00:07:34 < Laurenceb> a uni
2020-04-06T00:07:45 < Laurenceb> technically I didnt get fired
2020-04-06T00:07:48 < Cracki> run by communists
2020-04-06T00:08:00 < Laurenceb> as there should have been a disciplinary meeting
2020-04-06T00:08:09 < Cracki> those are kangaroo courts
2020-04-06T00:08:11 < Laurenceb> but I had already left by then as my contract finished
2020-04-06T00:08:26 < Cracki> you're guilty by default and those things are only to dress it up in some semblance of order
2020-04-06T00:08:41 < Steffanx> Lol Cracki and his misplaced trust in the blax 
2020-04-06T00:08:45 < Laurenceb> well she has gone back home, so *shrug*
2020-04-06T00:09:13 < qyx> so a failed romance
2020-04-06T00:09:14 < qyx> it was
2020-04-06T00:09:22 < qyx> not 4chan
2020-04-06T00:09:25 < Cracki> she'll find you if you ever set foot on russian soil
2020-04-06T00:09:26 < Laurenceb> and she managed a grand total of zero publications and zero conferences attended
2020-04-06T00:10:06 < Laurenceb> tried to accuse me of stealing her work, but I pointed out there was nothing to stop her publishing anything she wanted to
2020-04-06T00:10:15 < Laurenceb> and she completely failed to do so
2020-04-06T00:10:54 < Cracki> so what did you steal
2020-04-06T00:10:57 < Laurenceb> Cracki: aiui she is MMA fighting in Siberia right now
2020-04-06T00:11:15 < Laurenceb> I'm a good boy, I wouldnt steal anything
2020-04-06T00:11:23 < Cracki> what did you copy
2020-04-06T00:11:38 < Laurenceb> nothing from babbyshake, it was all shit
2020-04-06T00:11:46 < Cracki> what did she claim you stole
2020-04-06T00:11:50 < Laurenceb> lol
2020-04-06T00:11:51 < Cracki> nothing specific?
2020-04-06T00:12:03 < Laurenceb> probably the wambulance or something
2020-04-06T00:12:26 < Cracki> did she even work on the same project as you
2020-04-06T00:12:33 < Laurenceb> yes
2020-04-06T00:12:47 < Cracki> what did she do for that project
2020-04-06T00:12:52 < Cracki> apart from sitting in air vents
2020-04-06T00:12:53 < Laurenceb> hmmm
2020-04-06T00:13:00 < Laurenceb> good question
2020-04-06T00:13:04 < Cracki> what was she supposed to do, let's say
2020-04-06T00:13:15 < Laurenceb> I think she "designed" a metal bar with two holes in it
2020-04-06T00:13:19 < Laurenceb> once.. maybe
2020-04-06T00:13:29 < Cracki> or was it some shady exchange student deal where they basically get a semester of vacation in another country
2020-04-06T00:13:34 < Cracki> wew
2020-04-06T00:13:40 < Laurenceb> designing improved babby transport suspension
2020-04-06T00:13:57 < Laurenceb> something that never got done...
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2020-04-06T00:14:17 < Laurenceb> I ordered a load of air suspension kit, but it was still sitting in boxes when I left
2020-04-06T00:15:28 < Cracki> maybe applied research is best left to companies
2020-04-06T00:15:34 < Laurenceb> yeah
2020-04-06T00:15:47 < Cracki> were any of you engineers?
2020-04-06T00:15:59 < Cracki> you're fiziks, I know that much
2020-04-06T00:16:06 < Cracki> that doesn't count as engineering
2020-04-06T00:16:07 < Laurenceb> we had industrial partners, but they were literally never sent anything to make
2020-04-06T00:16:12 < Cracki> hah
2020-04-06T00:16:18 < Laurenceb> she was a "mechanical engineer"
2020-04-06T00:16:27 < Laurenceb> I was "instrumentation and data"
2020-04-06T00:16:42 < Cracki> air quotes on her because... she had a degree right?
2020-04-06T00:16:46 < Laurenceb> yeah
2020-04-06T00:16:59 < Laurenceb> then was an MMA fighter for several years
2020-04-06T00:17:11 < Cracki> did she ever complain about tools, such as workstation, contacts to machine shops, etc?
2020-04-06T00:17:13 < Laurenceb> really nasty shit, she had a load of scars from stuff
2020-04-06T00:17:27 < Laurenceb> I dont think she ever went near a workshop...
2020-04-06T00:18:24 < Cracki> I fucking hate it when a new place just abandons you, no mentor or buddy or anyone who can advise or assist unasked
2020-04-06T00:18:54 < Laurenceb> yeah we just had weekly "I want a GUI with a Bluetooth" meetings
2020-04-06T00:19:12 < Cracki> or you get shit tools. that one place dared to give me a PC with a spinning main disk, in 2016. and the new box had an ssdh, but the display was some 1280x1024 17" bullshit
2020-04-06T00:19:44 < Cracki> *ssd
2020-04-06T00:21:30 < englishman> companies to stay closed til May 4
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2020-04-06T00:24:49 < catphish> wonder how long the uk regulations will be in force
2020-04-06T00:25:13 -!- con3 [~con3@165.255.111.230] has quit [Quit: Leaving]
2020-04-06T00:25:31 < Laurenceb> months if projections are right
2020-04-06T00:25:50 < Laurenceb> there is no route out of this other than let a lot of people die or a vaccine
2020-04-06T00:26:41 < englishman> with prices of food increasing and fuel being cheap it's a good time to go full-time on the farm
2020-04-06T00:27:11 < catphish> but i don't have a farm :(
2020-04-06T00:27:14 < englishman> gas is cheaper than milk again
2020-04-06T00:28:50 < catphish> i'm puzzled by why this exception to the law exists: "in the case of a minister of religion or worship leader, to go to their place of worship;"
2020-04-06T00:29:04 < catphish> like, what's the point, if nobody else can go there
2020-04-06T00:32:24 < qyx> a minister of religion?
2020-04-06T00:32:46 < qyx> is that a thing?
2020-04-06T00:39:26 < Cracki> the title has nothing to do with politics
2020-04-06T00:39:52 < catphish> it's someone who works for a church
2020-04-06T00:40:04 < catphish> like a priest
2020-04-06T00:40:05 < Cracki> https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/minister#Etymology
2020-04-06T00:41:17 < qyx> oh
2020-04-06T00:41:36 < qyx> is there a service for crimping cables (except dongs)?
2020-04-06T00:41:42 < qyx> there was something for sure
2020-04-06T00:41:45 < qyx> elecrow or what
2020-04-06T00:42:53 < catphish> service for crimping cables?
2020-04-06T00:43:04 < catphish> you mean buying terminated cables?
2020-04-06T00:43:10 < catphish> or something else?
2020-04-06T00:43:50 < qyx> I want to buy precrimped wires of specified type, color and such
2020-04-06T00:44:26 < qyx> more specifically with molex micro-fit female contacts
2020-04-06T00:46:39 < catphish> i don't know anyone that does anything so specific
2020-04-06T00:46:51 < catphish> i guess it would indeed be a service in that case
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2020-04-06T01:20:07 < Cracki> this? https://dirtypcbs.com/store/cables/about
2020-04-06T01:20:23 < Cracki> online configurator
2020-04-06T01:20:50 < qyx> yeah that was it
2020-04-06T01:20:59 < Cracki> left side is menu where you find it
2020-04-06T01:21:20 < Cracki> have some asmr https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zhUArbDVTp0
2020-04-06T01:23:42 < qyx> 43025 3.0mm (Molex compatible)
2020-04-06T01:23:49 < qyx> they are doing molices \o/
2020-04-06T01:25:44 < englishman> yeah qyx there are billions of chinese shops that do that
2020-04-06T01:31:08 < qyx> weeeheee https://i.imgur.com/T5vPNqY.png
2020-04-06T01:31:49 < Cracki> ah, power
2020-04-06T01:32:04 < Cracki> what do white and blue do
2020-04-06T01:32:15 < qyx> rs485
2020-04-06T01:33:09 < Cracki> how much diff does 24awg make vs all-20awg?
2020-04-06T01:34:05 < Cracki> less copper should mean cheaper but it's two sizes of wire
2020-04-06T01:34:54 < qyx> I want them to be thinner because I should twist them :S
2020-04-06T01:36:46 < qyx> making the wires identical 20AWG increases the price
2020-04-06T01:37:08 < qyx> I guess it doesn't matter even if you have 40 different wire types in a cable
2020-04-06T01:37:51 < qyx> but $2 for a 60cm 4 wire cable with connectors is not that bad
2020-04-06T01:39:46 < Cracki> uhhh so you wanna make a chinese twist them or you're gonna peel them out of the plastic thingy, twist, reinsert?
2020-04-06T01:40:08 < Cracki> it ought to get cheaper if you want a whole bunch of those
2020-04-06T01:53:16 < qyx> I want them to crimp them without inserting
2020-04-06T01:53:22 < qyx> or twist them for me
2020-04-06T01:56:15 < Cracki> delivery instructions, send your cutest coronavirus
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2020-04-06T02:19:16 < jly> hi dad 
2020-04-06T02:32:34 < aandrew> https://imgur.com/gallery/bX0Dhe3
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2020-04-06T02:40:45 < Cracki> https://i.imgur.com/k8kohUc.jpg
2020-04-06T02:43:33 < jadew> Netflix says this is the top pick for me: https://m.media-amazon.com/images/M/MV5BYTgyMjdiZDAtOGRmNS00NTg2LWEzYTEtNTM0ZjM5MmI0NTVlXkEyXkFqcGdeQXVyMTEyNzg0Njkw._V1_.jpg
2020-04-06T02:44:40 < Cracki> fitting
2020-04-06T02:44:42 < jadew> imdb user reviews are all negative unfortunately
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2020-04-06T02:57:09 < kakimir> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Tb6NCdAVrr4 musics
2020-04-06T02:59:38 < kakimir> how do I make my kicad schematic art multipage?
2020-04-06T02:59:44 < kakimir> not hierarchical but multipage
2020-04-06T03:15:21 < Cracki> good music
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2020-04-06T04:31:46 < englishman> https://youtu.be/zZbDg24dfN0
2020-04-06T04:31:56 < englishman> using crappy keysight scopes instead of superior agilent
2020-04-06T04:32:32 < englishman> at least they have those nice b&k 9130
2020-04-06T04:32:44 < englishman> errr
2020-04-06T04:32:47 < englishman> superior tek
2020-04-06T04:39:36 < kakimir> https://drive.google.com/file/d/1DxDlFRFwPvDL27jfVFxg56w1-EIJdZh-/view?usp=sharing almost there
2020-04-06T04:40:11 < Laurenceb> https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-52173341
2020-04-06T04:40:15 < Laurenceb> russian things
2020-04-06T04:41:47 < kakimir> oh
2020-04-06T04:41:58 < kakimir> I can imagine the urge
2020-04-06T04:43:42 < kakimir> 5 people.. I mean did he go in the appartment then?
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2020-04-06T04:50:37 < kakimir> null>
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2020-04-06T09:58:01 < dongs> https://gct.co/files/drawings/usb4105.pdf 
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2020-04-06T10:18:48 < dongs> this is the digikey-obtainable USB_C socket thats chinaspecial and cheap
2020-04-06T10:18:56 < dongs> U262-161N-4BVC11 == that
2020-04-06T10:19:07 < dongs> https://www.digikey.com/product-detail/en/gct/USB4105-GF-A/2073-USB4105-GF-ACT-ND/11198510
2020-04-06T10:19:10 < dongs> ^ for zypsnips
2020-04-06T10:19:16 < dongs> in case someone wants stuff quickly and not from china
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2020-04-06T10:43:02 < upgrdman> neat, this could be useful when i need to write optimize my shit  https://software.intel.com/sites/landingpage/IntrinsicsGuide/
2020-04-06T10:43:30 < upgrdman> some of those instructions sounds weird as fuck. like very specific to a task
2020-04-06T10:44:07 < upgrdman> "affine transformation in the Galois Field" etc
2020-04-06T10:51:52 < mawk> that's for cryptography
2020-04-06T10:51:56 < mawk> I guess
2020-04-06T10:52:24 < upgrdman> k
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2020-04-06T11:20:20 < jly> identify wzx wizardxx
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2020-04-06T11:51:09 < mawk> Steffanx: https://www.geenstijl.nl/5152755/corona-code-zwart-en-dan/
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2020-04-06T12:00:30 < jadew> are quarantine measures starting to show across the world?
2020-04-06T12:01:04 < jadew> seems the number of deaths is not following last week's trend anymore
2020-04-06T12:01:27 < jadew> only 4700 deaths yesterday
2020-04-06T12:01:57 < jadew> 1000 less than the day before
2020-04-06T12:05:57 < Steffanx> Yes mawk?
2020-04-06T12:06:17 < Steffanx> Such magic jly
2020-04-06T12:32:59 < jpa-> jadew: is that your password?
2020-04-06T12:33:02 < jpa-> er
2020-04-06T12:33:04 < jpa-> jly:
2020-04-06T12:47:32 < PaulFertser> identify jly jellyy
2020-04-06T12:54:53 < jadew> what?
2020-04-06T12:54:57 < jadew> what password?
2020-04-06T12:55:00 < jadew> ah, not me
2020-04-06T12:55:02 < jadew> pfew
2020-04-06T12:55:19 < jadew> heh, I guess it is
2020-04-06T12:56:45 < jadew> since the pandemic started, oil price has gone down by 50%
2020-04-06T12:57:05 < jadew> finally gas is cheap, but you can't leave the house
2020-04-06T12:57:45 < mawk> come to the netherlands
2020-04-06T12:57:52 < mawk> you can drive wherever you want
2020-04-06T12:58:16 < karlp> did petrol come down 50% too jadew? it sure hasn't here.
2020-04-06T12:58:25 < karlp> flour sales up 360% though :)
2020-04-06T12:58:37 < specing> jadew: buy a large tank and store it 
2020-04-06T12:58:54 < mawk> he can't go buy it
2020-04-06T13:00:32 < jadew> karlp, it's probably not reflected in the gas price at the pump
2020-04-06T13:00:55 < jadew> wonder why tho
2020-04-06T13:01:01 < jadew> might be a lag
2020-04-06T13:01:03 < karlp> so the "jadew | finally gas is cheap, but you can't leave the house
2020-04-06T13:01:05 < mawk> Steffanx: weeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeew
2020-04-06T13:01:09 < karlp> is just you making shit up then? :)
2020-04-06T13:01:15 < Steffanx> uh?
2020-04-06T13:01:20 < mawk> you don't hear the siren
2020-04-06T13:01:20 < jadew> karlp, well, it is cheaper :P
2020-04-06T13:01:26 < jadew> but I was making a joke, yeah
2020-04-06T13:01:35 < jadew> oil price has gone down 50% tho, that's true
2020-04-06T13:01:38 < mawk> I found out Steffanx is deaf
2020-04-06T13:01:58 < Steffanx> ask jly how to say that
2020-04-06T13:02:05 < Steffanx> But what mawk?
2020-04-06T13:02:16 < mawk> there was the siren at 12:00
2020-04-06T13:03:08 < Steffanx> I have my head phones on
2020-04-06T13:03:11 < mawk> :(
2020-04-06T13:03:23 < Steffanx> And they happens every first monday of the month
2020-04-06T13:03:26 < Steffanx> *that
2020-04-06T13:03:39 < mawk> I never paid attention
2020-04-06T13:03:55 < mawk> I must say the sound designer must be fired tho
2020-04-06T13:04:01 < mawk> french siren is much more melodic
2020-04-06T13:04:15 < mawk> first wednesday of every month
2020-04-06T13:06:29 < zyp> jadew, pump price here is mostly taxes
2020-04-06T13:06:53 < jadew> zyp, yeah, same here, but it did go down a little
2020-04-06T13:07:27 < zyp> I haven't been following here, I don't really care about gas prices :p
2020-04-06T13:07:37 < jadew> I would expect the taxes to scale with the base price tho
2020-04-06T13:08:05 < mawk> when the price goes down they increase the taxes
2020-04-06T13:08:06 < Mangy_Dog> i care about gas/petrol prices here as were rrupped off over in the UK compared to the usa
2020-04-06T13:08:08 < mawk> in France at least
2020-04-06T13:08:14 < zyp> jadew, no, they are per liter
2020-04-06T13:08:23 < jadew> ah..
2020-04-06T13:08:37 < mawk> or that's what they tried to do, but then gilets jaunes happened
2020-04-06T13:09:29 < zyp> VAT scales with price though
2020-04-06T13:09:57 < zyp> apparently the current taxes on gasoline are 6.17 NOK/l
2020-04-06T13:10:13 < zyp> I think gasoline costs somewhere on the order of 12-16 NOK
2020-04-06T13:10:24 < zyp> including VAT
2020-04-06T13:11:24 < Mangy_Dog> with this current price drop its roughly £1.10 per litre but regularly in normal times its closer to 1.40 or 1.50
2020-04-06T13:11:45 < Mangy_Dog> what do you americans pay?
2020-04-06T13:11:45 < jadew> zyp, seems like in here it's the same
2020-04-06T13:12:06 < jadew> last year it seems the total tax was higher than 100%
2020-04-06T13:12:07 < zyp> hmm
2020-04-06T13:12:37 < zyp> so 16 NOK leaves almost twice as much after taxes as 12 NOK does
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2020-04-06T13:19:27 < boddax> Just bought an lecroy wavepro 64xi from junk shop :))
2020-04-06T13:19:57 < boddax> Not workin show garbage lines at screen
2020-04-06T13:25:08 < mawk> open iti
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2020-04-06T13:31:03 < dongs> sup dongs
2020-04-06T13:31:10 < boddax> For sure
2020-04-06T13:31:18 < boddax> Take it apartttt
2020-04-06T13:32:45 < boddax> plannin to make tearup YouTube
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2020-04-06T13:34:32 < dongs> wouldnt fixing it be smarter thing to do
2020-04-06T13:37:13 < englishman> dongs: yes that company that makes those usbC is cool too
2020-04-06T13:37:24 < dongs> GCT?
2020-04-06T13:37:25 < englishman> replied in <24hr with a datasheet clarification
2020-04-06T13:37:28 < englishman> y
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2020-04-06T13:57:33 < karlp> shouldn't have had errors in the first place .)
2020-04-06T13:57:44 < karlp> did they then update the datasheet on to include the clarification?
2020-04-06T13:57:52 < dongs> https://www.diodes.com/assets/Datasheets/ds31737.pdf
2020-04-06T13:57:55 < dongs> > PPAP capable
2020-04-06T13:57:58 < dongs> this is a pen
2020-04-06T14:34:58 < jadew> Steffanx, what did you think about the movie?
2020-04-06T14:38:40 < englishman> it wasn't an error it was missing insertion depth
2020-04-06T14:39:02 < englishman> meanwhile a TE datasheet was straight up wrong resulting in wrong PCB and it took a month to reply
2020-04-06T14:42:12 < karlp> just teasing, geting replies is great
2020-04-06T14:42:55 < karlp> given how easy it has been to get .step files and shit for various products recently, I'ðm a little confused why they don't just have them as regular downloads with the datasheets.
2020-04-06T14:45:02 < dongs> usually they do
2020-04-06T14:46:12 < Steffanx> Im not sure jadew
2020-04-06T14:46:41 < Steffanx> I did get the feeling it was a bit rushed towards the end
2020-04-06T14:47:17 < jadew> could have been longer for sure, there was a lot to explore
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2020-04-06T15:01:00 < dongs> hmm
2020-04-06T15:01:04 < dongs> where does a nigga get some 10CL025YU256C8G
2020-04-06T15:01:09 < dongs> mouser and digijew are out
2020-04-06T15:06:03 < karlp> desolder it from here? https://eu.mouser.com/ProductDetail/Intel/EK-10CL025U256?qs=HXFqYaX1Q2zh%2FEGiixG4LQ%3D%3D
2020-04-06T15:06:16 < karlp> I dunno, call your intel rep and ask?
2020-04-06T15:06:24 < dongs> haha
2020-04-06T15:06:27  * karlp grins
2020-04-06T15:06:57 < karlp> https://octopart.com/search?q=10CL025YU256C8G&currency=USD&specs=0 has some dubious sources...
2020-04-06T15:07:07 < dongs> seen those
2020-04-06T15:07:11 < dongs> those are all scammish
2020-04-06T15:07:30 < dongs> 'submit a quote and we'll get back to you'
2020-04-06T15:07:34 < dongs> also verical has none
2020-04-06T15:09:20 < karlp> yeah, the ol, "yes, we have that in stock" (man runs off to the shop down the street to get it)
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2020-04-06T15:57:45 < qyx> #corona32 150 people returning from Tyrol in a column of cars were stopped at the .sk border, 34 of them were positive
2020-04-06T15:57:48 < qyx> well done
2020-04-06T16:05:25 < englishman> the emergency rooms here are empty as the old people are no longer going there to pass the time
2020-04-06T16:06:05 < PaulFertser> Does anyone know how busy the hospitals are in the US?
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2020-04-06T16:18:38 < Steffanx> Time for some semi-related music https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dvyp9mjH-24
2020-04-06T16:19:30 < karlp> fuck, I was kidna hoping for some music to save me from the trash I was listening to, but... no. this is worse.
2020-04-06T16:19:39 < zyp> haha
2020-04-06T16:21:21 < Steffanx> HAHA.
2020-04-06T16:21:43 < englishman> this is great though.
2020-04-06T16:21:56 < Steffanx> This is the first that came into my mind when qyx mentioned Tirol.
2020-04-06T16:22:42 < Steffanx> Does it not make you happy karlp?
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2020-04-06T16:23:38 < BrainDamage> karlp: https://filebin.ca/5IC3fQ9Ecp3t/rec_auto_61.mp3
2020-04-06T16:23:50 < BrainDamage> both distortion and music are mine
2020-04-06T16:30:50 < Steffanx> BrainDamage picked up his musical career?
2020-04-06T16:31:21 < BrainDamage> that one has been long dead
2020-04-06T16:31:33 < BrainDamage> just trying to pass the time
2020-04-06T16:31:47 < karlp> BrainDamage: thanks :)
2020-04-06T16:32:09 < BrainDamage> it's probably a bit short though
2020-04-06T16:32:44 < karlp> somewhat
2020-04-06T16:33:44 < BrainDamage> I'm mostly setting up a tolerable recording systemd
2020-04-06T16:33:57 < BrainDamage> since we're in for the long run anyway
2020-04-06T16:35:26 < BrainDamage> contrary to to expectations, if you teach your kids music, they won't do drugs because they'll be too broke to buy them
2020-04-06T16:36:55  * karlp laughs
2020-04-06T16:38:50 < PaulFertser> Or they'll just buy some shitty drugs like crack instead...
2020-04-06T16:40:38 < Steffanx> :)
2020-04-06T16:41:09 < Thorn> teach your kids algebraic geometry or string theory so that they never ever discover the world of music and drugs
2020-04-06T16:41:37 < Steffanx> Thats not how it works sadly
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2020-04-06T16:46:17 < qyx> Steffanx: also, is it tyrol or tirol
2020-04-06T16:46:24 < PaulFertser> Thorn: I've read several stories from a MCCME teacher telling how he was heavily abusing vodka, even kayaking being dangerously drunk.
2020-04-06T16:47:39 < qyx> Steffanx: lol that vid
2020-04-06T16:49:22 < Thorn> I've read about Perelman.
2020-04-06T16:50:38 < karlp> hrm, azure bought threadx, but has no pricing details
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2020-04-06T16:55:53 < PaulFertser> Thorn: http://turizm.lib.ru/t/turism/skniga4.shtml
2020-04-06T16:58:46 < Steffanx> Tirol is german i guess, qyx
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2020-04-06T17:05:32 < englishman> Walmart parking lot is full
2020-04-06T17:05:38 < englishman> lineup at the home depot
2020-04-06T17:06:09 < englishman> can't imagine the costco
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2020-04-06T17:22:19 < dongs> https://www.newhavendisplay.com/nhd24240320cfbsxvf-p-9666.html what are these guys smoking
2020-04-06T17:22:24 < dongs> i got on thier spam list a few years ago
2020-04-06T17:22:29 < dongs> and they always have ridiculous shit
2020-04-06T17:23:25 < Steffanx> newhaven display. such awesome, such cool. not.
2020-04-06T17:23:41 < Thorn> priced for moneyed westerners
2020-04-06T17:24:07 < Steffanx> used a character display from them once at work. The update over spi made the background flicker. When we showed them with scope/logic analyzer pictures they didnt believe it.
2020-04-06T17:24:58 < Steffanx> You could easily see at specific times during the spi transfer the background pwm would keep it's level for a longer time > flickering.
2020-04-06T17:25:15 < Steffanx> *background led/light
2020-04-06T17:25:41 < dongs> newhaven more like jewhaven
2020-04-06T17:30:01 < jadew> https://i.imgur.com/gnZaN5b.gifv
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2020-04-06T17:31:05 < Steffanx> lol
2020-04-06T17:31:29 < Steffanx> i wonder how many wouldnt do the same
2020-04-06T17:32:00 < jadew> especially since there are some people in that little hut
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2020-04-06T17:51:31 < englishman> dongs: they came to my work last year
2020-04-06T17:51:43 < englishman> if you need to buy something more than 6 months into the future, they are the ones to go to
2020-04-06T17:51:58 < englishman> but are mostly dumb fucks reselling china shit.
2020-04-06T17:53:38 < jadew> https://i.imgur.com/NmT3w6W.mp4
2020-04-06T17:54:17 < emeb> couldn't see that coming. nope.
2020-04-06T17:55:59 < dongs> englishman: yea buy buydisplay.com has 10 year longevity guarantees
2020-04-06T17:56:01 < dongs> on most of the shit
2020-04-06T17:56:27 < englishman> idk how that's possible
2020-04-06T17:56:34 < englishman> no mfgs offer 10 year longevity
2020-04-06T17:56:37 < englishman> not even mitsubishi
2020-04-06T17:57:13 < emeb> huge warehouses?
2020-04-06T17:59:06 < c10ud> most display mfgs do/clone the same shit all over
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2020-04-06T18:11:32 < qyx> englishman: st has 10y longetivity program
2020-04-06T18:11:35 < qyx> *longevity
2020-04-06T18:11:51 < englishman> st doesnt make tfts
2020-04-06T18:19:23 < emeb> stm32f103 has been around longer than that.
2020-04-06T18:20:57 < englishman> its 10 year commitment was renewed, too
2020-04-06T18:21:03 < englishman> for 22 years longevity
2020-04-06T18:21:28 < englishman> but the subject was displays
2020-04-06T18:22:39 < emeb> I've got code running in a bunch of products w/ TFTs - the first few were done with generic ebay/china displays. They're cheap and available but we had some trouble with yield and reliability.
2020-04-06T18:23:05 < emeb> So now the next product uses an LCD from buydisplay.
2020-04-06T18:23:22 < emeb> About 3x the price but hopefully less trouble.
2020-04-06T18:23:25 < Laurenceb> did you hear about Musks masks?
2020-04-06T18:23:39 < Laurenceb> If a doctors call this out as B.S. will he be accused of being a pediatrician
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2020-04-06T18:30:26 < englishman> laurent the starship failure was just a test failure
2020-04-06T18:30:30 < englishman> everything is A-OK
2020-04-06T18:30:32 < englishman> and going to plan
2020-04-06T18:30:35 < englishman> - e. musk
2020-04-06T18:30:42 < emeb> Praise his name!
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2020-04-06T18:48:28 < BrainDamage> aren't those announced beforehand?
2020-04-06T18:53:17 < vmt> englishman: so... mars I is happening, next week was it?
2020-04-06T18:53:20 < BrainDamage> https://nitter.net/null4bl3/status/1247032404990210053?max_position=DAACDwABCgAAAA8RTpFWn5awBxFOpbVqFqAAEU5og9OWAAERToL3bJTwABFOZBIkFqACEU6Hx64WkAARTn_As9YAABFO2IWWlqABEU6ww3bXQAARTpCFQZRgABFOz7nfVFADEU6qmAnU0AkRTo5DOpdAAhFOfDCHV2AEEU6BdtLWoAkIAAMAAAABAgAEAAAA#r
2020-04-06T19:08:12 < Steffanx> I had my hopes up for no arduino involved.. meh
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2020-04-06T20:44:05 < qyx> were you hoping for a 555 delay circuit with bunch of other things?
2020-04-06T20:45:16 < BrainDamage> given the response times arduino is perfectly cromulent
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2020-04-06T20:52:49 < Steffanx> YES, qyx
2020-04-06T20:53:28 < Ultrasauce> it'd need three monostables i think?
2020-04-06T20:55:07 < Ultrasauce> probably more succinctly implemented with a quad comparator or something
2020-04-06T20:57:57 < englishman> probably better done in chrome console
2020-04-06T20:58:30 < BrainDamage> if you want to keep it separate, you can send HID events for spacebar
2020-04-06T21:01:02 < qyx> hack the keyboard with a relay
2020-04-06T21:02:00 < srk> “arduino” is just the hipster-level software abstraction on top of an mcu. 
2020-04-06T21:02:00 < srk> haha
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2020-04-06T21:13:27 < boddax> nosferrini
2020-04-06T21:15:11 < englishman> hey boddax what does ciao ferrauto mean
2020-04-06T21:15:39 < boddax> ferrauto llok like car shop name
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2020-04-06T21:16:29 < boddax> isnt a italian word ..closed is ferrato meaning you have big skill on something
2020-04-06T21:17:15 < englishman> ok, thank you
2020-04-06T21:17:20 < BrainDamage> it's an idiom, the literal meaning is 'made of/reinforced with iron'
2020-04-06T21:17:35 < boddax> np
2020-04-06T21:17:50 < englishman> hello/goodbye, reinforced with iron
2020-04-06T21:18:02 < boddax> yes also horse can be ferrato ..put shoes
2020-04-06T21:18:40 < englishman> like from a ferrier
2020-04-06T21:19:21 < BrainDamage> ferro is iron
2020-04-06T21:19:54 < englishman> yeah, fer in french
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2020-04-06T21:28:13 < PaulFertser> Army of immortal warriors ciao ferrauto https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zlCqgQMjuNw
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2020-04-06T21:29:10 < PaulFertser> Reinforce your blood PUMPing with steel (that is the strongest, so say we all)!
2020-04-06T21:29:33 < BrainDamage> there's a word that's hard to translate, we say that manowar are the tamarri of rock
2020-04-06T21:29:45 < BrainDamage> it's when you dress and act like a kitsch person
2020-04-06T21:29:50 < BrainDamage> vapid, little quality
2020-04-06T21:29:57 < BrainDamage> extremely stereotyped too
2020-04-06T21:30:41 < BrainDamage> ironically the stereotype tamarro is also listening to house, techno, hardcore, and hates rock/metal
2020-04-06T21:34:39 < boddax_> tipically the tamarro have car with wide tyres lots of mods and car stereo sound at full volume 
2020-04-06T21:35:12 < PaulFertser> Idk, call me stupid but something in their music really resonates with me. No other power metal band gives me that.
2020-04-06T21:35:39 < boddax_> your tamarro PaulFDertser :)
2020-04-06T21:36:22 < Mangy_Dog> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=17NXzyp93fI super short tease
2020-04-06T21:36:33 < boddax_> isnt a problem ir fault to be tamarro just life style
2020-04-06T21:36:41 < PaulFertser> BrainDamage: hm, probably "poser" is close?
2020-04-06T21:37:34 < mawk> I hate rock/metal and I listen to hardcore techno BrainDamage 
2020-04-06T21:37:36 < mawk> :(
2020-04-06T21:37:40 < boddax_> <Mangy_Dog> dont push any nutton or you will teletrasported unkbow place
2020-04-06T21:37:58 < Mangy_Dog> :p
2020-04-06T21:38:58 < srk> mawk: dafaq, how can you hate black metal 
2020-04-06T21:39:20 < srk> it's almost like hc tech
2020-04-06T21:39:27 < mawk> maybe
2020-04-06T21:39:34 < mawk> I don't like lyrics, and I like fast kick
2020-04-06T21:39:48 < srk> well, that's like a definition of black metal as well :D
2020-04-06T21:39:55 < boddax_> boot kick?
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2020-04-06T21:40:14 < PaulFertser> Yeah, double bass drum and no lyrics can be understood until you reed the booklet :)
2020-04-06T21:40:25 < srk> ^^
2020-04-06T21:40:43 < PaulFertser> Esp in death metal
2020-04-06T21:42:48 < PaulFertser> btw, russian heavy metal fans consistently call "thrash metal" "trash metal" (non-ironically), just wtf...
2020-04-06T21:43:03 < srk> :D
2020-04-06T21:43:23 < srk> mawk: https://soundcloud.com/innovativelive/innovative-ben-harder-show-may-2016
2020-04-06T21:43:42 < PaulFertser> I didn't know about the genre and then I heard a radio broadcast and they were all saying "trash".
2020-04-06T21:44:25 < PaulFertser> They also probably call Thorn "Torn" ;)
2020-04-06T21:50:04 < mawk> what's in the booklet
2020-04-06T21:50:06 < mawk> thanks srk 
2020-04-06T21:50:11 < mawk> I'll wait until I'm alone
2020-04-06T21:50:14 < mawk> not sure the gf likes it
2020-04-06T21:50:22 < mawk> she will think I went into a sect or something
2020-04-06T21:50:58 < BrainDamage> are you implying this channel isn't a cabal already?
2020-04-06T21:53:40 < PaulFertser> mawk: printed lyrics
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2020-04-06T22:38:16 < PaulFertser> BrainDamage: thank you for the adagio link indeed, pu ehr is awesome.
2020-04-06T22:38:54 < PaulFertser> Like tar.
2020-04-06T22:49:48 < BrainDamage> PaulFertser: glad you like it, if you like green teas, gunpowder is a good choice
2020-04-06T22:50:01 < BrainDamage> normally I don't like green teas, but that one's an exception
2020-04-06T22:56:02 < Ultrasauce> funny i like green tea but not gunpowder
2020-04-06T22:56:41 < BrainDamage> I guess that kinda explains it, it's the green tea that doesn't taste much like green tea
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2020-04-06T23:47:09 < jadew> https://i.imgur.com/EwJOX9z.gifv
2020-04-06T23:59:24 < Steffanx> Now the big question: is the darter more accurate than jadew and his predictions? :P
--- Day changed Tue Apr 07 2020
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2020-04-07T00:03:16 < Cracki> don't pull it out. unscrew the tip, get xrayed
2020-04-07T00:08:54 < jadew> Steffanx, heh
2020-04-07T00:09:11 < jadew> I'm happy that my predictions were wrong for this week
2020-04-07T00:09:31 < Steffanx> Is romania dead yet?
2020-04-07T00:09:38 < jadew> I wonder if they'll keep flattening
2020-04-07T00:09:57 < jadew> no, my prediction from 2-3 weeks ago for Romania holds true
2020-04-07T00:10:17 < jadew> we'll see how we're doing after this period
2020-04-07T00:10:23 < specing> Q: What is the ADC end-of-sequence interrupt useful for? I assume that whenever one is converting a sequence, the DMA is used and thus the DMA interrupt.
2020-04-07T00:12:03 < jadew> Steffanx, since you asked, I just received this link: https://cetateanul.net/fara-categorie/10-bebelusi-infectati-cu-covid-19-au-luat-virusul-de-la-asistente/
2020-04-07T00:12:17 < jadew> the problem here is that people are stupid
2020-04-07T00:12:41 < jadew> I finally went to the post office today and those imbeciles there took ~15 minutes per person
2020-04-07T00:12:56 < Steffanx> ț .. dont see that one often
2020-04-07T00:13:19 < jadew> Steffanx, it's pronounced like tz
2020-04-07T00:13:31 < qyx> https://i.pinimg.com/originals/59/04/c9/5904c9b3b52687880c6473e86c72159d.jpg
2020-04-07T00:13:34 < qyx> speaking of stupid.
2020-04-07T00:14:37 < jadew> they printed my invoice ~5 times because they were not able to print the second page
2020-04-07T00:14:54 < jadew> every time I go there, it's like each situation is new to them
2020-04-07T00:15:24 < jadew> needless to say, the line was long, and there were some guys selling shit on the sidewalk, not wearing protective gear
2020-04-07T00:15:36 < jadew> then some lady passed by the line and coughed right next to me
2020-04-07T00:15:51 < Steffanx> Ohno
2020-04-07T00:15:59 < jadew> without cover her mouth or even moving her head
2020-04-07T00:16:07 < jadew> she just coughed forward like a fucking cow
2020-04-07T00:16:43 < jadew> anyway, we'll see if we're doomed or not, but IMO the lockdown measures aren't very effective
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2020-04-07T00:19:31 < Laurenceb> #join #rockoon
2020-04-07T00:20:54 < qyx> no.
2020-04-07T00:21:33 -!- bvernoux [~Ben@88.120.152.126] has quit [Quit: Leaving]
2020-04-07T00:26:24 < Cracki> https://i.kym-cdn.com/photos/images/original/001/793/189/180
2020-04-07T00:28:03 < BrainDamage> Laurenceb: boris johnson in ICU
2020-04-07T00:28:18 < BrainDamage> not sure if I should laugh or weep for the british
2020-04-07T00:28:20 < Laurenceb> ikr
2020-04-07T00:28:20 < zyp> RIP
2020-04-07T00:28:39 < Laurenceb> >ppl lolled at Iran when their health minister got it
2020-04-07T00:32:32 < jadew> he's probably not in ICU condition
2020-04-07T00:32:38 < jadew> could just be a precaution
2020-04-07T00:33:11 < BrainDamage> still leaves the uk without a PM in the mid of a crisis
2020-04-07T00:33:34 < ds2> reverse the magna carta... long live the queen :D
2020-04-07T00:33:45 < Laurenceb> https://www2.b3ta.com/host/creative/34212/1585868372/weekendatBojos.jpg
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2020-04-07T00:39:37 < specing> Q: What is the ADC end-of-sequence interrupt useful for? I assume that whenever one is converting a sequence, the DMA is used and thus also the DMA interrupt? If data is stored in the ADC ISR, then you can just check if end of sequence is reached by looking at the current array index
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2020-04-07T00:45:13 < kakimir> hello night
2020-04-07T00:45:30 < specing> Does anyone even stm32 anymore?
2020-04-07T00:48:09 < kakimir> no
2020-04-07T00:48:15 < kakimir> everybody does fpga now
2020-04-07T00:48:22 < kakimir> to implement processor
2020-04-07T00:49:51 < t4nk_freenode> also: everybody died.
2020-04-07T00:50:05 < zyp> I just wrote/debugged some code on stm32
2020-04-07T00:51:31 < kakimir> have you played more with ecp5?
2020-04-07T00:51:38 < zyp> specing, if you're only doing a sequence of one, you don't need DMA
2020-04-07T00:51:49 < kakimir> or was it done after initial excite
2020-04-07T00:52:04 < zyp> kakimir, yeah, I moved the usb stuff I started on icestick over earlier today
2020-04-07T00:52:21 < kakimir> wtuff?
2020-04-07T00:52:41 < zyp> just a barebones deserializer
2020-04-07T00:53:11 < zyp> I had the icestick give me this: https://bin.jvnv.net/file/IT7qA.png
2020-04-07T00:53:26 < zyp> and today I had the ecp5 board give me the same
2020-04-07T00:53:51 < zyp> except the ecp5 is far from full, unlike the icestick :)
2020-04-07T00:53:56 < specing> zyp: I'm doing 3 conversions in a row
2020-04-07T00:54:13 < zyp> specing, that's irrelevant to your question
2020-04-07T00:54:24 < specing> your answer too
2020-04-07T00:54:41 < specing> There is already a single conversion complete ISR 
2020-04-07T00:54:55 < BrainDamage> somewhat NSFW-ish https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/438360283514404875/696721470214242354/Staysafeyall_715062_7635607.png
2020-04-07T00:55:19 < zyp> specing, are there? IIRC you had to use DMA because there weren't
2020-04-07T00:55:36 < zyp> that's besides the point either way
2020-04-07T00:55:38 < specing> zyp: there is EOCIE and EOSIE
2020-04-07T00:56:07 < specing> I can confirm that I get interrupt for each channel when setting all channels to one and firing off the conversion
2020-04-07T00:57:14 < zyp> okay, I haven't done much DMA on the newer parts, I don't think the older ones had that
2020-04-07T00:57:29 < englishman> Canada telling everyone to wear masks now
2020-04-07T00:57:33 < englishman> 2 months later
2020-04-07T00:57:53 < zyp> but anyway, even if you're doing DMA, you might have a DMA job that's longer than the sequence
2020-04-07T00:58:01 < specing> zyp: stm32f072
2020-04-07T00:58:02 < BrainDamage> in my region it has become mandatory
2020-04-07T00:58:24 < specing> zyp: the ADC has the AUTODLY/WAIT flag, where it waits with next conversion until the DR is read
2020-04-07T00:59:39 < zyp> specing, e.g. you've got three channels in a sequence, but a 30-entry ringbuffer that you transfer into, then you have EOS ISR do some processing on each new sample set
2020-04-07T00:59:58 < zyp> e.g. FIR filtering looking back into the ringbuffer
2020-04-07T01:00:36 < zyp> for stuff like that it'd be useful to know when a sequence is over, and the DMA setup wouldn't be able to interrupt you
2020-04-07T01:00:45 < specing> ok, but can you be sure that the DMA transfer completed?
2020-04-07T01:01:55 < specing> and for that matter, wouldn't it be better to set DMA to 3, and then program +3 address into DMAR in the DMA ISR?
2020-04-07T01:02:07 < specing> where the processing is also done
2020-04-07T01:03:54 < specing> This chip is really packed with features, despite being in the f0 series.... :)
2020-04-07T01:04:04 < kakimir> movie recommend: Chappie
2020-04-07T01:05:18 < specing> noted
2020-04-07T01:05:26 < zyp> specing, nah, less work to just set up the DMA and let it run
2020-04-07T01:05:33 < Steffanx> Where to get a mask these days BrainDamage?
2020-04-07T01:06:05 < specing> zyp: and risk processing old/invalid data?
2020-04-07T01:06:09 < BrainDamage> pharmacies do stock them from time to time, also govt is handing free masks to elderly
2020-04-07T01:06:13 < zyp> specing, the latency from a DMA request until data hits memory is probably a lot less than ISR latency
2020-04-07T01:06:19 < BrainDamage> delivered at home if requested even
2020-04-07T01:06:20 < specing> that's true
2020-04-07T01:09:13 < kakimir> Steffanx: https://www.imdb.com/title/tt1823672/
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2020-04-07T01:41:21 < qyx> https://www.rouming.cz/archived/tesla_jako_tesla.jpg
2020-04-07T01:42:32 < englishman> lol
2020-04-07T01:42:35 < englishman> $350 fine here, now
2020-04-07T01:42:54 < kakimir> for what?
2020-04-07T01:42:56 < englishman> even if your car says tesla
2020-04-07T01:43:06 < BrainDamage> kakimir: look at the hood logo
2020-04-07T01:43:24 < englishman> and the position of the charging cable
2020-04-07T01:43:32 < englishman> at least open your gas filler and drape it over
2020-04-07T01:44:05 < kakimir> I think I will null>
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2020-04-07T01:47:13 < englishman> for the price of some film caps from digiJEW i can get some premade snubbers shipped fedex from china
2020-04-07T01:47:23 < kakigate> englishman: moivie reommd: chappie
2020-04-07T01:47:27 < englishman> yes good one
2020-04-07T01:47:32 < kakigate> did I say it in french?
2020-04-07T01:47:33 < englishman> i liked the yellow AR
2020-04-07T01:47:36 < kakigate> moivie
2020-04-07T01:51:15 < qyx> M2.5 х 12.3 screws
2020-04-07T01:51:56 < qyx> is it an american design
2020-04-07T01:52:10 < qyx> in that case they would not be metric
2020-04-07T01:52:13 < qyx> retards.
2020-04-07T01:53:15 < Cracki> M2.5 I can see but 12.3 sounds like some cad slave measured the hole and said that's the screw's length
2020-04-07T01:53:25 < kakigate> what are you complaining exatcly?
2020-04-07T01:54:24 < qyx> https://i.imgur.com/OqY8gPX.png
2020-04-07T01:54:56 < kakigate> see other sources
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2020-04-07T01:58:29 < Cracki> uh, is this for some kind of mounting system?
2020-04-07T01:59:42 < qyx> yes, from our fellow germans
2020-04-07T01:59:55 < Cracki> if that knurled one is 12.3mm long, the head must be impossible to grab with fingers
2020-04-07T01:59:59 < kakigate> those are for panel mounting
2020-04-07T02:00:17 < Cracki> deesgusting
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2020-04-07T02:53:04 < Cracki> it's a cult https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tj6uZlXx_J8
2020-04-07T02:58:40 < emeb> https://twitter.com/KristianHarstad/status/1247295308465410055
2020-04-07T03:00:10 < jadew> lol
2020-04-07T03:00:44 < Cracki> jadew, relaxing yet?
2020-04-07T03:01:01 < jadew> Cracki, about the virus?
2020-04-07T03:01:04 < Cracki> encrypted cloud server
2020-04-07T03:01:06 < Cracki> CLOUD TO BUTT
2020-04-07T03:01:23 < Cracki> true shitposting
2020-04-07T03:01:30 < Cracki> yes jadew 
2020-04-07T03:01:36 < jadew> Cracki, not sure
2020-04-07T03:01:42 < Cracki> how high are the bodies stacked yet
2020-04-07T03:02:17 < jadew> I think the drop is due to lockdown measures, but it's too soon to tell if it's going to go down or still up, but with a different exponent
2020-04-07T03:02:37 < Cracki> watch the video
2020-04-07T03:03:32 < Cracki> basically DOOOM
2020-04-07T03:04:20 < Cracki> greta gets her segment too
2020-04-07T03:08:05 < jadew> that guy ignores the fact that the predictions were true so far
2020-04-07T03:08:18 < jadew> and we're not out of the woods yet
2020-04-07T03:08:21 < BrainDamage> jesus, not even 1st of april
2020-04-07T03:09:05 < jadew> there was a small decline for these past couple of days, which I think were due to the lockdown measures, but we're still far from having a confirmation that we got over it
2020-04-07T03:09:48 < jadew> the reason it spread so fast in Italy, UK, Spain, etc is because they got seeded in multiple points
2020-04-07T03:10:04 < Cracki> why are you so invested in these predictions
2020-04-07T03:10:34 < BrainDamage> Cracki: the mind has to scratch where it itches, different people have different ways to deal with stress
2020-04-07T03:10:56 < BrainDamage> some make jokes, and some have to obsessively rationalize it somehow
2020-04-07T03:11:13 < BrainDamage> and there's other coping mechanisms too
2020-04-07T03:11:16 < jadew> Cracki, it's the only way to "see" into the future
2020-04-07T03:11:34 < Cracki> my takeaway from this is that I'm still quite different from everyone else
2020-04-07T03:11:48 < jadew> I've actually stopped thinking about ncov for a couple of days already, almost entirely
2020-04-07T03:12:15 < jadew> anyway, the point I was trying to make is that you shouldn't take the lag in increases, when compared to Italy, Spain, etc, as a sign that things are fine
2020-04-07T03:12:29 < Cracki> my cynism has never let me down. I bought noodles before the noodles apocalypse, I bought TP before the TP apocalypse
2020-04-07T03:12:30 < jadew> because those countries got seeded more aggressively by tourists
2020-04-07T03:12:34 < Cracki> people gonna peop
2020-04-07T03:12:40 < jadew> while in other places, it evolves more naturally
2020-04-07T03:12:48 < BrainDamage> people gonna pee
2020-04-07T03:13:20 < Cracki> it helps to keep an ear on the ground and to know what the limits of prediction are
2020-04-07T03:13:25 < jadew> also, you're forgetting that the predictions were absolutely true in the case of Italy, then Spain, then France
2020-04-07T03:13:33 < Cracki> tight read-eval-print loop is vital
2020-04-07T03:13:43 < jadew> hospitals got overwhelemed just like everyone feared
2020-04-07T03:14:19 < Cracki> you're forgetting that hospitals getting overwhelmed doesn't mean the world ends or that a significant fraction of the population dies
2020-04-07T03:14:42 < Cracki> flows and buffers.
2020-04-07T03:14:47 < Cracki> hospitals have no buffers.
2020-04-07T03:14:51 < jadew> to relax because the global death rate increase dropped a little, mainly due to just a couple of countries that were dominating the stats, is wrong IMO
2020-04-07T03:15:14 < Cracki> pressure rises instantly if you try to squeeze only a little more water into that system
2020-04-07T03:15:37 < jadew> Cracki, well, the data still supports that several percents of the population could die from it, which is pretty significant
2020-04-07T03:15:52 < Cracki> 1-2% die every year :D
2020-04-07T03:16:10 < Cracki> it's a cycle
2020-04-07T03:16:50 < Cracki> ♫ The Circle Of Life ♫
2020-04-07T03:18:05 < specing> According to one recent study, 800000 europeans prematurely die due to air pollution
2020-04-07T03:18:07 < specing> ban cars
2020-04-07T03:18:42 < Cracki> I think I will make some rolls of TP disappear so the roomie gets to hunt for more in the stores
2020-04-07T03:18:52 < Cracki> ban europeans
2020-04-07T03:18:55 < kakigate> jadew: movie recommd: chappie (2015)
2020-04-07T03:19:09 < Cracki> they're clearly defective if so much as a single one of them dies
2020-04-07T03:19:14 < jadew> kakigate, saw it
2020-04-07T03:19:17 < jadew> thanks tho
2020-04-07T03:19:34 < Cracki> prematurely means anything from 80 years to one day
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2020-04-07T03:20:41 < Cracki> how is this transparent propaganda not transparent?
2020-04-07T03:21:16 < Cracki> (I know you're being sarcastic. I saw the article where they fearmongered about air pollution too)
2020-04-07T03:23:34 < specing> Cracki: one year prematurely
2020-04-07T03:23:48 < Cracki> on a population of what size
2020-04-07T03:23:51 < specing> err 2 years
2020-04-07T03:23:54 < specing> 4 years in china
2020-04-07T03:24:20 < Cracki> 800k * 2 years / what size of population
2020-04-07T03:24:48 < specing> 500 million?
2020-04-07T03:25:15 < Cracki> comes to 1.17 days per capita
2020-04-07T03:27:21 < specing> huh?
2020-04-07T03:27:46 < Cracki> you have a 800k/500M chance of "dying prematurely"
2020-04-07T03:27:53 < specing> Tht's not how it works
2020-04-07T03:27:56 < Cracki> if so, you pay 2 years. if not, pay 0 years.
2020-04-07T03:27:57 < specing> everyone dies prematurely
2020-04-07T03:28:06 < Cracki> then everything causes premature death
2020-04-07T03:28:08 < specing> on average, people die 2 years prematurely
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2020-04-07T03:31:25 < Cracki> scientific literature doesn't like "premature death". they like "years of life lost"
2020-04-07T03:33:32 < Cracki> this "setting to zero" bullshit biases the calculation too https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Years_of_potential_life_lost
2020-04-07T03:34:13 < Cracki> because if you calculate the "reference" age to be the mean or median, and then only respect the half that died before then, you will get a number different from zero
2020-04-07T03:35:10 < Cracki> found an article that has a "800k" figure: https://www.newscientist.com/article/2196238-does-air-pollution-really-kill-nearly-9-million-people-each-year/
2020-04-07T03:35:56 < Cracki> and tons of articles in german that rip apart this bullshit the "researcher" from Mainz (germany) wrote
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2020-04-07T03:37:31 < Cracki> "the average person in Europe loses two years", critics give numbers in the months to days range
2020-04-07T03:38:21 < jadew> better move outside the city and lose those in traffic
2020-04-07T03:39:01 < Cracki> drive a tank. that's statistically safer for you.
2020-04-07T03:39:15 < Cracki> saves you time at intersections too
2020-04-07T03:40:21 < specing> Cracki: fossil fuel industry funded critics? lol
2020-04-07T03:40:55 < Cracki> implying that eco terrorism doomsday cults aren't a lucrative industry
2020-04-07T03:41:10 < Cracki> I'm all for protecting the environment
2020-04-07T03:41:18 < Cracki> I'm against manipulation
2020-04-07T03:42:25 < Cracki> one high level guy in "Extinction rebellion" wrote a rant where he said they are NOT a climate movement, their goal is to genocide europeans: https://medium.com/extinction-rebellion/extinction-rebellion-isnt-about-the-climate-42a0a73d9d49
2020-04-07T03:43:11 < Cracki> why would you "fix" the bogeyman you built to *cause* the hysteria you're using to manipulate people? exactly
2020-04-07T03:44:07 < specing> so, link to studies debunking the max planck institute researcher
2020-04-07T03:44:38 < Cracki> feel like google translate? https://www.spiegel.de/gesundheit/diagnose/faktencheck-das-ist-dran-an-der-zahl-der-abgas-toten-in-deutschland-a-1255358.html
2020-04-07T03:45:49 < Cracki> "unstatistik" is like anti-statistic, non-statistic, farce
2020-04-07T03:46:38 < Cracki> "the icct study" https://theicct.org/news/health-impacts-transport-sector-pr-20190227
2020-04-07T03:47:22 < specing> sorry, but spiegel is not a peer reviewed publication
2020-04-07T03:47:26 < specing> https://academic.oup.com/eurheartj/article/41/8/904/5741648
2020-04-07T03:47:45 < specing> link me to a peer reviewed study debunking this one
2020-04-07T03:48:45 < Cracki> where are the peer reviews on that study anyway
2020-04-07T03:49:08 < Cracki> besides, that's from 2020. they published something in/before 2019 that everyone is referring to
2020-04-07T03:49:29 < BrainDamage> peer reviews are done before an article is published and generally not seen, there might be public comments afterwards
2020-04-07T03:49:56 < BrainDamage> generally you judge the veracity of the article first by looking at the journal where's published
2020-04-07T03:50:07 < specing>  European Heart Journal, Volume 41, Issue 8, 21 February 2020, Pages 904?905, https://doi.org/10.1093/eurheartj/ehaa063
2020-04-07T03:50:09 < BrainDamage> some journals are notoriously low quality and accept errything
2020-04-07T03:50:30 < BrainDamage> others instead have good selection process
2020-04-07T03:50:33 < Cracki> that's what I'm getting at. "published in a journal" is appeal to authority
2020-04-07T03:50:43 < Cracki> that's ok sometimes, not ok other times
2020-04-07T03:51:08 < Cracki> I'm still looking for any sources that news article used
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2020-04-07T03:52:33 < Cracki> dear specing did you call up https://academic.oup.com/eurheartj/article/41/8/904/5741648 and look inside? it's one and a half pages
2020-04-07T03:52:37 < Cracki> only claims
2020-04-07T03:54:47 < Cracki> this says 7.8 million years lost in 2015 globally (7.3 billion people population at the time, so 9 hours per capita) https://theicct.org/publications/health-impacts-transport-emissions-2010-2015
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2020-04-07T04:06:52 < Cracki> here's a critique of the ICCT study using "premature deaths" instead of YLL http://en.rwi-essen.de/unstatistik/87/
2020-04-07T04:08:22 < Cracki> says they didn't use any measurements but pure models based on assumptions with ridiculous uncertainty
2020-04-07T04:11:17 < Cracki> calling for peer review means you don't think you're knowledgeable or intelligent enough to judge the arguments by yourself.
2020-04-07T04:11:34 < Cracki> for advanced research that's often the case. for this simple argument of math (rwi-essen link), we don't need that
2020-04-07T04:14:16 < specing> Cracki: I'm not knowledgeable enough about the subject matter
2020-04-07T04:14:29 < Cracki> can you follow the argument in the rwi-essen article?
2020-04-07T04:14:40 < Cracki> about the three twin pairs
2020-04-07T04:15:01 < Cracki> about the 3 vs 1 deaths, about the years of life lost?
2020-04-07T04:15:10 < specing> I may deal with this tomorrow
2020-04-07T04:17:31 < Cracki> I may be biased because I live in europe where air is (now) good
2020-04-07T04:18:35 < Cracki> 30 years ago car exhaust left air smelling awful and filthy. I hear that's still the case in such nice places as poland
2020-04-07T04:22:58 < englishman> https://vreddit.cc/wg2frdeci9r41
2020-04-07T04:34:35 < dongs> why eth fuck does everyhing linked off that retarded v.redd.it site so fucking slow
2020-04-07T04:36:47 < dongs> still buffering
2020-04-07T04:36:50 < dongs> only got liek 3 seconds in
2020-04-07T04:44:45 < Cracki> how's this https://www.reddit.com/r/Unexpected/comments/fw6zx8/this_is_how_all_begins/
2020-04-07T04:45:02 < Cracki> is it just that wrapper that's causing you trouble or the video itself
2020-04-07T04:45:26 < dongs> that got to 90% quickly
2020-04-07T04:45:32 < Cracki> it's using some mpeg dash streaming
2020-04-07T04:45:53 < Cracki> not dashing all the time
2020-04-07T04:54:39 < dongs> nice
2020-04-07T04:54:43 < dongs> chiangirl had the intel FPGA
2020-04-07T04:54:55 < dongs> cheaper than singles in nonstock mouser/dk too
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2020-04-07T07:24:59 < Cracki> guys, shit like this finally works https://github.com/billziss-gh/sshfs-win
2020-04-07T07:25:56 < Cracki> no janky file transfer in the background. I can open gigabyte sized files and seek around in them with a hex editor
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2020-04-07T07:40:26 < dongs> wow what a fucking mess lmao
2020-04-07T07:40:37 < dongs> fuse, lunix, cgywin, ssh, hoyl fuck
2020-04-07T07:40:41 < dongs> why not just use SMB
2020-04-07T07:40:43 < dongs> like normal people
2020-04-07T07:41:57 < Cracki> because if there were normal people, our linux server would have samba
2020-04-07T07:42:45 < Cracki> these people aren't normal so all we get is ssh and unencrypted ftp in the LAN because I begged and the fucking thing is in a VM that doesn't pass crypto cpu instructions to the host
2020-04-07T07:44:14 < Cracki> that stuff up there doesn't need much. it needs that "fsp" driver part to present itself properly to the system, and the sshfs package to use that and talk to ssh servers
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2020-04-07T13:33:37 < jadew> https://www.aljazeera.com/programmes/newsfeed/2020/04/indian-migrant-workers-sprayed-disinfectant-chemical-200406104936658.html
2020-04-07T13:34:40 < jadew> one dude moved into a tree because they didn't have enough rooms at home
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2020-04-07T13:46:17 < Mangy_Dog> Does anyone know if its possible to get #define SOMETHING class.Something to work with code compleation in eclipse? so when SOMETHING is called i can see the class options attached to it?
2020-04-07T13:46:45 < Mangy_Dog> i realise its bad practice but it would save me tons and tons of time to do this
2020-04-07T13:52:43 < jadew> what's the use case?
2020-04-07T13:58:12 < Mangy_Dog> the editor i use to create the screen UI layouts with assets and what not... it churns out caps locked command lists
2020-04-07T13:58:34 < Mangy_Dog> the hardware library has a class.command (in lower case)
2020-04-07T13:58:56 < Mangy_Dog> so instead of spending hours if not days retyping the entire command lists i could just copy and paste from the editor into my code
2020-04-07T13:59:23 < Mangy_Dog> https://pastebin.com/c0XYuYzd
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2020-04-07T14:08:25 < Cracki> code completion eh?
2020-04-07T14:08:40 < Cracki> might work. I think eclipse was once smart enough to look inside defines
2020-04-07T14:08:58 < Cracki> anyway why would it matter? the compiler doesn't care
2020-04-07T14:08:58 < srk> code completion is a sign you write too much code
2020-04-07T14:09:22 < Cracki> also if those commands are generated, just write a little script to do the text replacement if you need it
2020-04-07T14:09:25 < Steffanx> Yeah, it's called Haksell for a reason.
2020-04-07T14:09:31 < Cracki> like a preprocessor except on source, and permanent
2020-04-07T14:09:36 < Steffanx> haksellen => cutting into smaller pieces P
2020-04-07T14:11:33 < Mangy_Dog> well its nice to have the code compleation so i can double check settings as i change the value arguments 
2020-04-07T14:11:38 < Mangy_Dog> during runtime
2020-04-07T14:11:40 < Mangy_Dog> but
2020-04-07T14:12:00 < Mangy_Dog> so far it doesnt appear eclipse has that level of code compleation to look through define connections
2020-04-07T14:12:10 < Mangy_Dog> unless theres an option i dont know of... which is why i asked
2020-04-07T14:19:04 < Steffanx> i dont think eclipse does that
2020-04-07T14:20:20 < Steffanx> if i understand it right. When you have  #define MANGY_DOG WHOPWHOP.WHOP you want to to show WHOPWHOP.WHOP (perhaps next to MANGY_DOG) in the list with auto complete options.
2020-04-07T14:22:17 < Cracki> try poking around about there? https://stackoverflow.com/questions/11399719/eclipse-cdt-autocomplete-not-working
2020-04-07T14:22:18 < Mangy_Dog> well i would like i tto show the connected class complete options
2020-04-07T14:22:37 < Mangy_Dog> what is interesting, something certainly is linking as it shows errors if i put in bad arguments
2020-04-07T14:27:28 < Mangy_Dog> its nothing critically important i guess... at least it shows errors when i make a mistake
2020-04-07T14:27:33 < Mangy_Dog> just would have been nice :p
2020-04-07T14:27:39 < Mangy_Dog> to have that is
2020-04-07T14:30:50 < Mangy_Dog> ha 
2020-04-07T14:30:54 < Mangy_Dog> more interesting
2020-04-07T14:31:26 < Mangy_Dog> #define THING gd triggered the class options when i did typed "THING."
2020-04-07T14:32:40 < Mangy_Dog> but doesnt trigger when i set it to THING gd.
2020-04-07T14:33:00 < Mangy_Dog> oh well
2020-04-07T14:34:50 < karlp> the . is special, it knows that as a member access, you can't short cut that.
2020-04-07T14:35:51 < Streaker> things that happen in the preprocessor are invisible to the compiler. that's why you're discouraged from using #defines. there are better ways (in C++) to do what you want to do
2020-04-07T14:36:04 < Streaker> but I've forgotten all my C++
2020-04-07T14:36:28 < mawk> preprocessor is still king
2020-04-07T14:36:31 < mawk> even for C++
2020-04-07T14:36:47 < mawk> X macros for instance
2020-04-07T14:36:51 < karlp> all the more reason to ditch c++ tehn
2020-04-07T14:36:58 < mawk> unless you want to write a thesis on templates, you use preprocessor
2020-04-07T14:36:58 < srk> and c
2020-04-07T14:51:57 < Cracki> some people need to have macros in java, so instead of using lisp (hah) they write a parser for arbitrary DSLs and generate code
2020-04-07T14:56:23 < Cracki> hm wait, they generate parser code only, nothing more. all they're after is whether some input is well-formed according to some given grammar
2020-04-07T15:04:12 < dongs> haha
2020-04-07T15:04:17 < dongs> altium is having a coronavirus special sale
2020-04-07T15:04:38 < dongs> $2k discount
2020-04-07T15:04:45 < dongs> FuCkErS
2020-04-07T15:04:47 < srk> lol
2020-04-07T15:04:55 < srk> even if it was for free
2020-04-07T15:08:10 < mawk> my favorite french right-wing newspaper is sponsoring flavored hydroalcoolic gels
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2020-04-07T15:27:18 < Cracki> that is something related to vaping isn't it
2020-04-07T15:28:52 < mawk> lol
2020-04-07T15:28:54 < mawk> no
2020-04-07T15:29:00 < mawk> it's the disinfecting stuff to wash your hands
2020-04-07T15:29:04 < mawk> ethanol water gel
2020-04-07T15:32:05 < Cracki> for disinfecting tongues and noses? is this stuff meant for ass lickers?
2020-04-07T15:32:17 < Cracki> what other use could flavors have in it
2020-04-07T15:33:43 < mawk> it's added value for marketing
2020-04-07T15:33:48 < mawk> for people to buy their gel 
2020-04-07T15:34:03 < Cracki> the flavor of roman salutes
2020-04-07T15:34:14 < Cracki> the flavor of kruppstahl
2020-04-07T15:34:27 < Cracki> the smell of senfgas in the morning
2020-04-07T15:34:58 < Cracki> oh did you know hitler had over 10000 tons of nerve gas, just in case the brits start shit. he never used it.
2020-04-07T15:35:52  * Cracki adds Senf to the grocery list
2020-04-07T15:46:11 < mawk> lol
2020-04-07T15:51:57 < Cracki> I wonder, emergency services take your call using some guidance system but does it run speech recog to pick up pieces to spare you from typing... I haven't seen that yet, not in my country
2020-04-07T15:53:56 < Cracki> last I checked they don't even automatically get your coordinates even though cell towers can give approximate position and phones themselves can give gps
2020-04-07T15:54:48 < BrainDamage> here the phones do send gps on emergency services calls
2020-04-07T15:54:50 < BrainDamage> also in the us
2020-04-07T15:55:18 < Cracki> just found it, "Advanced Mobile Location", seems to only have a german wiki article
2020-04-07T15:55:31 < Cracki> uses text message or https
2020-04-07T15:56:03 < mawk> how does that work BrainDamage ?
2020-04-07T15:56:13 < mawk> how can I disable that
2020-04-07T15:56:38 < BrainDamage> it's bolted in the os
2020-04-07T15:56:41 < BrainDamage> and it's low level packets
2020-04-07T15:56:46 < mawk> a
2020-04-07T15:56:48 < mawk> in the telephone app ?
2020-04-07T15:56:51 < Cracki> says here they store the *hash* of the phone number and delete after an hour
2020-04-07T15:56:52 < BrainDamage> yes
2020-04-07T15:57:06 < Cracki> also it only activates for certain callee numbers
2020-04-07T15:57:20 < BrainDamage> yes, it has to be a registered emergency number
2020-04-07T15:57:27 < BrainDamage> those that work even without sim card
2020-04-07T15:57:27 < Cracki> android 2.3+
2020-04-07T15:57:33 < BrainDamage> or without unlocking the phone
2020-04-07T15:57:38 < mawk> I never succeeded in calling an emergency number without a sim card
2020-04-07T15:57:55 < Cracki> ios has it since 11.3 (march 2018)
2020-04-07T15:57:58 < Cracki> spit on apple
2020-04-07T15:58:30 < Cracki> only a third of all emergency call centers in germany support this
2020-04-07T15:58:32 < BrainDamage> apple pourposedly delays implementing features so that they can always claim they've added something novel
2020-04-07T15:58:52 < BrainDamage> eg they don't support yet the full nfc protocol range
2020-04-07T15:58:59 < zyp> mawk, have you tried?
2020-04-07T15:59:05 < mawk> yes zyp 
2020-04-07T15:59:08 < mawk> on features phones long ago
2020-04-07T15:59:28 < mawk> I was stuck in a parking lot or something
2020-04-07T15:59:35 < BrainDamage> then you should complain to your network operator, in fact, you might even sue if you had a real emergency
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2020-04-07T16:00:50 < zyp> I think the only time I've called the emergency number is when I worked with phones and tested emergency calls on the test network
2020-04-07T16:01:07 < mawk> nice
2020-04-07T16:01:26 < mawk> I called them 3 times to signal a robbery, 1 time to signal my own aggression, 2 times to signal excessive noise at night
2020-04-07T16:01:43 < zyp> I don't remember how I could be sure the call went to the test network and not the real one
2020-04-07T16:01:43 < mawk> probably some other too
2020-04-07T16:01:47 < zyp> but it went fine
2020-04-07T16:01:57 < mawk> you worked with sim cards as well ?
2020-04-07T16:02:20 < zyp> I was provided with sim cards for the test network
2020-04-07T16:02:35 < zyp> I didn't have anything to do with operation of the test network
2020-04-07T16:04:58 < zyp> my department was responsible for the interface between the application processor and the cellular chipset, so I mainly worked with the drivers/software on the application side
2020-04-07T16:05:50 < zyp> I don't remember exactly why I were testing emergency calls, but I spent a bunch of time debugging customer reported issues, so I guess it was one of those
2020-04-07T16:06:03 < mawk> I see
2020-04-07T16:06:05 < mawk> nice stuff
2020-04-07T16:06:10 < zyp> it was fun
2020-04-07T16:06:29 < mawk> we had sim card classes at school, but I skept them
2020-04-07T16:06:47 < mawk> I skept most of everything now that I think about it
2020-04-07T16:08:39 < Steffanx> bad mawk is bad
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2020-04-07T16:11:29 < mawk> :(
2020-04-07T16:12:04 < Cracki> "sim card classes" is what?
2020-04-07T16:12:18 < dongs> how do i update something in my shithub repo to the master or wahtever it was forked from
2020-04-07T16:12:32 < Cracki> you do a local clone of your repo
2020-04-07T16:12:52 < Cracki> you add a new remote, call it "upstream", that is the original repo
2020-04-07T16:12:59 < Cracki> you do the needful locally
2020-04-07T16:13:03 < Cracki> you push that to your repo
2020-04-07T16:13:14 < dongs> i think im just gonna click some shit in github
2020-04-07T16:13:15 < dongs> and it might work
2020-04-07T16:13:18 < dongs> lemme try that first
2020-04-07T16:13:19 < Cracki> maybe
2020-04-07T16:13:22 < zyp> haha
2020-04-07T16:13:29 < mawk> class about how sim card work and how to hack on them Cracki , probably
2020-04-07T16:13:40 < Cracki> hmmm
2020-04-07T16:13:41 < mawk> dongs: you push to the master repo
2020-04-07T16:13:44 < Cracki> cool school
2020-04-07T16:13:47 < mawk> add a new remote, then push to the new remote
2020-04-07T16:14:07 < Mangy_Dog> whats faster at run time... case or if when dealing with large multiple selections?
2020-04-07T16:14:11 < mawk> git remote add otherremote addressofotherremote; git push otherremote remotebranch
2020-04-07T16:14:21 < mawk> case is fast
2020-04-07T16:14:21 < Cracki> case supports integers only
2020-04-07T16:14:29 < Mangy_Dog> ints is fine
2020-04-07T16:14:33 < mawk> but if is probably optimize to case
2020-04-07T16:14:34 < Mangy_Dog> its just page numbers
2020-04-07T16:14:40 < mawk> you can't declare new variables in case: statements
2020-04-07T16:14:44 < Cracki> do a case
2020-04-07T16:14:45 < mawk> unless you add ugly braces
2020-04-07T16:14:52 < mawk> but that's all, and æsthetically case is nicer
2020-04-07T16:14:57 < Mangy_Dog> k
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2020-04-07T16:15:12 < Cracki> if you have c++, maybe do a hashmap or sth
2020-04-07T16:15:18 < zyp> Mangy_Dog, switch/case might get compiled into a jump table
2020-04-07T16:15:18 < Mangy_Dog> i just need it to trigger which branch of page rendering to do depending on what page is selected
2020-04-07T16:15:35 < Cracki> for all I know hashmaps translate into prescient instructions
2020-04-07T16:15:59 < mawk> but you maybe want to go through a pull request dongs , even just for tracability, then it's on the github web interface indeed
2020-04-07T16:16:16 < Cracki> I think he wants to sync his fork to the origin
2020-04-07T16:16:20 < dongs> FUck
2020-04-07T16:16:21 < mawk> ah
2020-04-07T16:16:23 < mawk> then
2020-04-07T16:16:25 < dongs> they used some subproject faggotry
2020-04-07T16:16:25 < Mangy_Dog> ill go with case :p
2020-04-07T16:16:28 < dongs> now its prolly all fucked
2020-04-07T16:16:28 < Cracki> haha
2020-04-07T16:16:29 < dongs> god damn
2020-04-07T16:16:34 < mawk> git fetch -a -p -P; git rebase origin/master
2020-04-07T16:16:35 < mawk> like this
2020-04-07T16:16:36 < dongs> fuck git and fuck everythign esle
2020-04-07T16:16:42 < mawk> just unload the submodule, update, reload it
2020-04-07T16:16:48 < mawk> git submodule deinit -f thesubmodule
2020-04-07T16:16:48 < dongs> < mawk> git fetch -a -p -P; git rebase origin/master
2020-04-07T16:16:52 < englishman> lol gitsplaining
2020-04-07T16:16:54 < dongs> no normal human should need to type this SHIT UP
2020-04-07T16:16:58 < mawk> lol
2020-04-07T16:17:01 < dongs> fucking digusdgidnsgisntign
2020-04-07T16:17:07 < Cracki> grab smartgit or some other thingy. they help you
2020-04-07T16:17:41 < mawk> if the rebase fails because the remote is nt a fast forward of your branch, then you do a merge instead
2020-04-07T16:17:53 < Cracki> all I do with git on the commandline is git clone, git add, git commit, and nothing more
2020-04-07T16:18:05 < mawk> you can do good stuff on the command line
2020-04-07T16:18:16 < mawk> git rebase -i HEAD~3 to rewrite your messages or squash some commits together
2020-04-07T16:18:23 < Cracki> https://help.github.com/en/github/collaborating-with-issues-and-pull-requests/syncing-a-fork
2020-04-07T16:18:27 < dongs> how the fuck would you know what #3 means
2020-04-07T16:18:28 < dongs> ~3
2020-04-07T16:18:30 < dongs> whatever
2020-04-07T16:18:33 < mawk> 3 means last 2 commits
2020-04-07T16:18:34 < Cracki> nobody knows
2020-04-07T16:18:44 < dongs>   153 | uint16_t const* tud_descriptor_string_cb(uint8_t index, uint16_t langid)
2020-04-07T16:18:44 < dongs>       |                 ^~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
2020-04-07T16:18:44 < dongs> compilation terminated due to -Wfatal-errors.
2020-04-07T16:18:46 < dongs> yep FUCK
2020-04-07T16:18:47 < Cracki> stop knowing you destroy my argument
2020-04-07T16:18:50 < dongs> nigger submodule updated
2020-04-07T16:18:52 < mawk> lol
2020-04-07T16:18:53 < dongs> and API changed
2020-04-07T16:18:55 < dongs> typical opensores faggot shit
2020-04-07T16:18:58 < Cracki> -Waffle-errors
2020-04-07T16:18:58 < dongs> FUCK
2020-04-07T16:19:08 < mawk> just cd into the submodule and check it out to the last version that was working
2020-04-07T16:19:11 < dongs> what
2020-04-07T16:19:18 < mawk> a submodule is a regular git repo
2020-04-07T16:19:22 < mawk> you can do whatever you want to it
2020-04-07T16:19:24 < dongs> $ git status
2020-04-07T16:19:24 < dongs> HEAD detached at 23df777b
2020-04-07T16:19:25 < dongs> nothing to commit, working tree clean
2020-04-07T16:19:26 < dongs> ???
2020-04-07T16:19:31 < mawk> yeah
2020-04-07T16:19:37 < dongs> and waht
2020-04-07T16:19:38 < mawk> git checkout $id_of_commit_that_was_working
2020-04-07T16:19:41 < dongs> what
2020-04-07T16:19:42 < mawk> inside the submodule
2020-04-07T16:19:43 < dongs> i dont know what that is
2020-04-07T16:19:46 < mawk> a
2020-04-07T16:19:50 < dongs> i just want latest
2020-04-07T16:19:51 < dongs> or whatever
2020-04-07T16:19:53 < Cracki> that, but the "parent" has some git file where the specific commit hash for your submodule is noted. that way any commit in the parent points to a specific commit of that submodule
2020-04-07T16:19:55 < mawk> well you have latest
2020-04-07T16:19:58 < dongs> no i dont
2020-04-07T16:20:01 < dongs> i clicked shit in GUI
2020-04-07T16:20:03 < dongs> i have no FUCKign DIEA
2020-04-07T16:20:05 < dongs> WHAAT IT DID
2020-04-07T16:20:09 < mawk> lol
2020-04-07T16:20:10 < Cracki> gief teamviewer
2020-04-07T16:20:27 < Cracki> twitch plays goddonggit
2020-04-07T16:20:47 < mawk> if you want really latest then in the main repo you do git submodule update --remote 
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2020-04-07T16:20:55 < mawk> but that may not be guaranteed to work with your current code
2020-04-07T16:21:04 < mawk> that's why it says "head detached", the submodule is pinned to a particular version
2020-04-07T16:21:12 < dongs> Submodule path 'lib/tinyusb': checked out 'bfc43bad81c3faf77ffb14b9043a5064d52a7f30'
2020-04-07T16:21:15 < dongs> ok
2020-04-07T16:21:17 < Cracki> you know, you could just delete your fork on github and do a new fork
2020-04-07T16:21:29 < dongs> oh god none of this shit is working
2020-04-07T16:21:30 < dongs> l m a o
2020-04-07T16:21:36 < dongs> now more errors
2020-04-07T16:21:37 < Cracki> if you have nothing in your fork that's of value...
2020-04-07T16:21:37 < dongs> in otehr shit
2020-04-07T16:21:38 < dongs> Fucking opensores
2020-04-07T16:21:55 < dongs> well i used my fork to submit a patch
2020-04-07T16:21:56 < dongs> which got accepted
2020-04-07T16:21:59 < dongs> so I figured
2020-04-07T16:22:02 < dongs> ill update my FUCKING FORK
2020-04-07T16:22:05 < dongs> to the FUCKING LATEST SHIT
2020-04-07T16:22:07 < Cracki> u r fukd
2020-04-07T16:22:24 < dongs> FUCK GIT; GIT SUX; GIT IS DYING; GIT IS DEAD TO ME; GIT HIT WTC
2020-04-07T16:22:34 < Steffanx> OOOHNOOOOOO
2020-04-07T16:22:38 < Steffanx> RIP
2020-04-07T16:22:51 < Cracki> k, again, you have your local git repo. add a remote called "upstream", set that to what you forked from
2020-04-07T16:23:17 < Cracki> then you can merge, or reset hard or whatever, that thing onto your master branch
2020-04-07T16:23:27 < Cracki> then you can force push your master branch to your own github repo
2020-04-07T16:24:20 < Cracki> I'm hazy on the specifics. these parts are documented on stackoverflow, if not official docs
2020-04-07T16:24:39 < dongs> oh
2020-04-07T16:24:44 < dongs> i needed --recursive to submodule update
2020-04-07T16:24:54 < dongs> fucking dumb trash
2020-04-07T16:24:56 < dongs> why is that not even default
2020-04-07T16:24:57 < Cracki> ye that helps
2020-04-07T16:25:01 < dongs> WHY DO SUBMODULES EVEN EXIST
2020-04-07T16:25:03 < dongs> DUMBEST SHIT EVER
2020-04-07T16:25:03 < Cracki> because that'd be sane
2020-04-07T16:25:28 < PaulFertser> Cracki: official book is nice: https://git-scm.com/book/en/v2
2020-04-07T16:26:29 < Cracki> that's like reading the docs to the linux kernel when you want to know how to move a file around
2020-04-07T16:26:42 < Cracki> (almost)
2020-04-07T16:26:55 < Cracki> git is a nice library. it needs an interface.
2020-04-07T16:27:17 < mawk> recursive is not the default because sometimes nested submodules are very very large
2020-04-07T16:27:19 < mawk> I guess
2020-04-07T16:27:35 < Cracki> that book is written as a cookbook. I don't see a section that presents the data model
2020-04-07T16:27:37 < mawk> also sometimes you give arguments like --remote which bypass the official pinned commit ID and you don't want that for nested submodules as well
2020-04-07T16:27:46 < mawk> graphs !
2020-04-07T16:27:49 < mawk> is the data model
2020-04-07T16:27:58 < Cracki> yes
2020-04-07T16:28:04 < Cracki> and "git internals" is chapter 10
2020-04-07T16:28:22 < dongs> fuck me
2020-04-07T16:28:25 < dongs> all the shit is broken
2020-04-07T16:28:33 < Cracki> I'm not asking for internals, I'm asking for "it's a graph, often a tree, you do things on those"
2020-04-07T16:28:33 < dongs> k jsut gonna shift-del and downloadl atest release
2020-04-07T16:28:38 < dongs> since they already merged my shit
2020-04-07T16:28:41 < dongs> and just delete my fucking git trash
2020-04-07T16:28:44 < dongs> because useless garbage
2020-04-07T16:28:54 < Cracki> that's what I did the first time too
2020-04-07T16:30:48 < Cracki> technical documentation that stops having graphics after the first handful of paragraphs. love it!
2020-04-07T16:32:33 < Cracki> cool. graphics for rebase and basic merging. could have used that 10 years ago
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2020-04-07T16:34:26 < dongs> how do i check out shit with submodules
2020-04-07T16:34:31 < dongs> git checkout http://nigger -- ???
2020-04-07T16:35:06 < dongs> or is that clone
2020-04-07T16:35:07 < dongs> waht the fuck
2020-04-07T16:35:08 < dongs> i dont know
2020-04-07T16:35:29 < Cracki> checkout is for hopping between branches
2020-04-07T16:35:47 < Cracki> clone is to create a copy of the repo in the first place
2020-04-07T16:36:14 < Cracki> you check out shit with submodules by cloning the repo, then initializing the submodules (see above)
2020-04-07T16:37:08 < Cracki> the clone itself only plops the root repo on your disk. all the submodule repos haven't been created from that, but the root repo knows where they are and what version (commit hash) they ought to be
2020-04-07T16:37:08 < dongs> christ. its cloning fucking gigabytes of freertos and otehr shit
2020-04-07T16:37:12 < dongs> god damn
2020-04-07T16:37:13 < dongs> what the fuck
2020-04-07T16:37:17 < dongs> i dont need full histroy on this shit
2020-04-07T16:37:20 < dongs> i just want to FUCKING BUILD IT
2020-04-07T16:37:21 < Cracki> :D
2020-04-07T16:37:31 < Cracki> git recently learned to copy partial history
2020-04-07T16:37:34 < dongs> opensores is truly fucking garbage
2020-04-07T16:37:41 < Cracki> download a tarball from github
2020-04-07T16:37:44 < Cracki> (or zip file)
2020-04-07T16:37:47 < dongs> i cant
2020-04-07T16:37:50 < dongs> it doesnt fucking build
2020-04-07T16:37:55 < dongs> becauyse it needs the FUCKING SUBMODULES
2020-04-07T16:37:56 < Cracki> :D
2020-04-07T16:38:13 < mawk> git submodule update --init --recursive
2020-04-07T16:38:15 < dongs> Filtering content:  24% (26/107), 102.64 MiB | 4.31 MiB/s
2020-04-07T16:38:15 < mawk> like this ?
2020-04-07T16:38:17 < dongs> what is it even doing
2020-04-07T16:38:21 < mawk> you need --init the first time
2020-04-07T16:38:23 < mawk> dunno
2020-04-07T16:38:33 < mawk> you pasted a random command from stackoverflow ? with git filter-branch in it
2020-04-07T16:38:41 < mawk> or just pulling maybe
2020-04-07T16:38:41 < Cracki> https://images-na.ssl-images-amazon.com/images/I/71bQXvSriRL.png
2020-04-07T16:38:54 < mawk> lol
2020-04-07T16:38:59 < dongs> fuck this
2020-04-07T16:39:02 < dongs> shift-del'ing this whole trash
2020-04-07T16:39:05 < mawk> well
2020-04-07T16:39:13 < mawk> don't put --recursive if you don't want all the submodules
2020-04-07T16:39:13 < dongs> it pulled 2.something gigs
2020-04-07T16:39:14 < dongs> of shit
2020-04-07T16:39:17 < mawk> or explicitely mention the submodules you want
2020-04-07T16:39:19 < Cracki> (╯°□°）╯︵ ┻━┻
2020-04-07T16:39:25 < mawk> git submodule update --init thesubmodule
2020-04-07T16:39:32 < dongs> what
2020-04-07T16:39:33 < Cracki> he wants all the submodules I'm sure
2020-04-07T16:39:38 < dongs> why does it include shit it doesnt fucking need
2020-04-07T16:39:46 < mawk> well it gets all the submodules
2020-04-07T16:39:49 < Cracki> "need" is a strong word
2020-04-07T16:39:50 < mawk> but you need them right ? for building
2020-04-07T16:40:01 < Cracki> they may have just set submodules there for shits n giggles
2020-04-07T16:40:13 < mawk> usually in the readme they say what to pull and what to not pull
2020-04-07T16:40:18 < Cracki> git repos with subshit sometimes have shell scripts that set up what you really need
2020-04-07T16:40:20 < mawk> that's why --recursive may pull in too much stuff
2020-04-07T16:40:32 < zyp> I always add a few decoy submodules so people can't find all the valuable code
2020-04-07T16:40:36 < mawk> lol
2020-04-07T16:41:00 < Cracki> yo dawg, put own repo as submodule
2020-04-07T16:41:09 < dongs> its compioling something
2020-04-07T16:41:16 < Cracki> (previous commit at least, unless there's symbolic fuckery to make it truly recursive)
2020-04-07T16:41:23 < dongs> lets hopw this shit succeeds and I can delete it and not touch again
2020-04-07T16:41:26 < dongs> this disgusting opensores filth
2020-04-07T16:41:50 < dongs> yes success
2020-04-07T16:42:51 < dongs> this time only 117megs
2020-04-07T16:42:54 < dongs> including build crap
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2020-04-07T16:43:23 < Cracki> dude posts this, asks "why did it stop" https://pasteboard.co/J2I7JQj.jpg
2020-04-07T16:43:50 < dongs> haha openGL
2020-04-07T16:43:53 < dongs> what is this, 1996?
2020-04-07T16:44:22 < Mangy_Dog> dongs that aimed at me?
2020-04-07T16:44:35 < Mangy_Dog> oh at the error
2020-04-07T16:45:34 < Cracki> what do the cool kids use these days? romulus?
2020-04-07T16:46:49 < dongs> directx
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2020-04-07T16:47:14 < Cracki> fair
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2020-04-07T16:48:29 < Cracki> wow I did directx in 2003 and I remember nothing except I copypasted some init code and suddenly I could draw flat shaded triangles
2020-04-07T16:48:45 < dongs> i bet if you copypasted opengl you'd still be trying to compile it
2020-04-07T16:48:49 < dongs> for 17 years
2020-04-07T16:48:51 < Cracki> likely
2020-04-07T16:49:26 < Cracki> I did that stuff with delphi back then. the student mentor I had did a quick google without knowing delphi/pascal at all, and that worked too
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2020-04-07T17:05:52 < Cracki> I played with povray back then. some computers magazine introduced me.
2020-04-07T17:06:24 < Cracki> moray was the first graphical modeling thingy I ever touched. half-life's level editor must have been the second.
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2020-04-07T17:39:43 < bitmask> itchy itchy burn burn
2020-04-07T17:39:55 < bitmask> don't run your arm/wrist across a heat gun by accident
2020-04-07T17:40:04 < bitmask> barely touched it and my arm looks like its gonna fall off
2020-04-07T17:40:33 < englishman> zyp, apparently if you let the battery on the round tradfri remotes run down to zero, the device bricks
2020-04-07T17:40:52 < englishman> any suggestions for alternative switches
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2020-04-07T17:47:13 < Mangy_Dog> ok um.... why isnt a global varible im making it into a #include declared bellow it?
2020-04-07T17:47:33 < Mangy_Dog> a global var im making, making it into the #include
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2020-04-07T17:49:03 < Mangy_Dog> im getting a note declared in scope
2020-04-07T17:49:55 < Mangy_Dog> im just trying to tidy up some code instead of having it all in one file
2020-04-07T17:50:34 < boddax> Use tidy command with linucs
2020-04-07T17:50:55 < Mangy_Dog> o.o
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2020-04-07T17:56:51 < boddax> Not tidy ..uncrostify
2020-04-07T18:02:51 < dongs> so how do i non-retaqrdely create a branch? click something in sourcetree preferably
2020-04-07T18:03:43 < dongs> does creating a local branch udpate it in remote
2020-04-07T18:03:43 < dongs> somehow
2020-04-07T18:06:25 < Thorn> dongs: no it doesn't until you push it to the remote
2020-04-07T18:06:57 < englishman> in aidstree dont you just click new branch
2020-04-07T18:07:12 < englishman> tbh i havent used it since the trashed the interface and made it millenial style hiding all the buttons
2020-04-07T18:07:50 < englishman> right-click on a commit in the tree -> new branch
2020-04-07T18:07:50 < englishman> iirc
2020-04-07T18:07:51 < Thorn> better than trashing your repos like gitkraken did for me
2020-04-07T18:08:19 < englishman> really tho in git theres over9000 ways to trash your repo and 0.5 ways to do it right
2020-04-07T18:08:32 < dongs> haha
2020-04-07T18:09:21 < Thorn> I mostly used gitkraken for viewing though and it still managed to trash one repo to beyond repair and others not as severely
2020-04-07T18:10:11 < PaulFertser> englishman: I do not remember ever trashing a git repo, and I've been using it for many years.
2020-04-07T18:13:26 < mawk> in general when I use git rebase or git reset I manage to lose some commits
2020-04-07T18:13:34 < mawk> but unless you run git gc there's always a way to recover
2020-04-07T18:17:34 < PaulFertser> Yes, they're easy to get from "git reflog".
2020-04-07T18:22:52 < karlp> for varying definitions of "easy" sure.
2020-04-07T18:23:17 < karlp> but fuck mawk, your command spamn to dongs earlier was pretty out there, commands I've neever even used, not even checking what dongs really wanted to do first, fuck 
2020-04-07T18:24:02 < karlp> so, fucking 4g hotspot shit has died.
2020-04-07T18:24:15 < karlp> battery has swolen up and died, and the fucking thing doesn't run without a functional battery.
2020-04-07T18:24:35 < karlp> usb power is _only_ charging, it doesn't appear as a usb device at all.
2020-04-07T18:24:39 < karlp> so that's fucking lame.
2020-04-07T18:24:43 < karlp> stupid consumer electronics
2020-04-07T18:27:24 < BrainDamage> which commands?
2020-04-07T18:33:52 < zyp> englishman, haha, nice
2020-04-07T18:34:18 < zyp> that means that I've in theory got a bricked one
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2020-04-07T18:44:10 < karlp> BrainDamage: fetch -a -p -P, and also submodule deinit.
2020-04-07T18:46:16 < mawk> maybe you never broke a repository bad enough
2020-04-07T18:46:39 < BrainDamage> I've used the first, but not the latter
2020-04-07T18:46:53 < mawk> fetch is for fetching from a remote as the name indicates, deinit is for resetting submodule to a pristine state
2020-04-07T18:47:07 < karlp> I've used fetch, but never those options, nor have I ever used deinit.
2020-04-07T18:47:11 < mawk> because git caches information about submodules once they're initialized
2020-04-07T18:47:16 < PaulFertser> karlp: but you can use random liion cell instead, right?
2020-04-07T18:47:23 < mawk> -pP is just cleanup, -a is to fetch everything
2020-04-07T18:47:36 < mawk> -pP removes stale tags and stale branches, like branches from merged PRs
2020-04-07T18:47:37 < karlp> PaulFertser: unlike some people apparently, I don't have a pile of random batteries lying around
2020-04-07T18:48:02 < karlp> I'll jsut buy new ones.
2020-04-07T18:48:16 < karlp> they're "too old" to have the batteries for sale here locally
2020-04-07T18:48:18 < PaulFertser> karlp: how about adding 3.3 V LDO to feed battery terminals from USB? ;)
2020-04-07T18:48:38 < karlp> yeah, if it was for me, but it's two of them, for comemrcial use, so I'mn buying two new ones and billing someone.
2020-04-07T18:49:04 < karlp> user mannual doesn't even mention the blinking error pattern it shows with no battery, stuypid thing
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2020-04-07T19:26:57 < Steffanx> "Specifies witch Flash interface will be used for code execution" lol ST
2020-04-07T19:27:45 < specing> XD
2020-04-07T19:27:45 < jpa-> witch Flash, just in time for easter
2020-04-07T19:28:25 < englishman> so these relays are arcing out after 60-80 cycles, a 0.1uf pp film cap and 220r resistor across the terminals should be enough right
2020-04-07T19:28:32 < englishman> AC
2020-04-07T19:28:58 < jpa-> can the application tolerate such agressive snubber?
2020-04-07T19:29:10 < jpa-> (i.e., won't it leak too much)
2020-04-07T19:30:52 < englishman> hmm
2020-04-07T19:30:57 < PaulFertser> Is that with pure resistive load?
2020-04-07T19:30:59 < englishman> yes could start with lower C
2020-04-07T19:31:09 < englishman> no
2020-04-07T19:31:52 < englishman> i'm not sure of pf, it's HF light inverters
2020-04-07T19:33:19 < jpa-> 220 ohms sounds quite little also
2020-04-07T19:39:07 < englishman> i went with that as it's what i found in commercial snubbers
2020-04-07T19:41:09 < englishman> resistor needs to be 2W rated to have that 600V rating as well
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2020-04-07T20:46:46 < kakimir> smell of gasoline in my clothes
2020-04-07T20:51:54 < mawk> who did you light on fire ?
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2020-04-07T20:57:45 < kakimir> nah man
2020-04-07T20:57:50 < kakimir> just filled the sled
2020-04-07T20:58:13 < kakimir> it's couple days of snow left so I rode it to forrest for storage
2020-04-07T20:58:26 < kakimir> under the tree
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2020-04-07T20:58:59 < boddax> where you live kakemir hymayala?
2020-04-07T20:59:17 < Steffanx> snow?
2020-04-07T20:59:19 < nn7> do we know if STM has fixed the USART HAL to properly handle full-duplex interrupt communications?
2020-04-07T20:59:51 < Steffanx> Yes, by using LL and not the HAL stuff :P
2020-04-07T21:00:11 < nn7> Steffanx, do you know if anyone has published any nice libraries for handling this?
2020-04-07T21:00:26 < mawk> LL isn't nice ?
2020-04-07T21:00:29 < mawk> LL is already a library
2020-04-07T21:00:32 < kakimir> can you mix hal and ll?
2020-04-07T21:00:46 < mawk> LL is what it says in the title, so probably yes
2020-04-07T21:00:52 < mawk> LL is just a thin wrapper around directly poking registers
2020-04-07T21:00:57 < mawk> HAL is not far from that either
2020-04-07T21:01:04 < Steffanx> Yes it is for many things.
2020-04-07T21:02:22 < Steffanx> The uart functions are indeed fucking awful. Where you have to know the amount of bytes you're going to receive and stuff. That's just awful.
2020-04-07T21:02:47 < mawk> yeah
2020-04-07T21:03:01 < mawk> well if you're using DMA you have to, right ?
2020-04-07T21:03:03 < mawk> or you can do ugly hacks
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2020-04-07T21:03:42 < mawk> you have to know how many bytes you received so far to cancel the DMA request
2020-04-07T21:04:32 < Steffanx> You could use the ring buffer mode.
2020-04-07T21:04:47 < mawk> and check periodically for new bytes ?
2020-04-07T21:04:47 < Steffanx> Anyway, even in interrupt rx you have to give it the amount of bytes you expect
2020-04-07T21:04:52 < mawk> that's like not doing DMA
2020-04-07T21:04:59 < mawk> yeah
2020-04-07T21:05:09 < nn7> I see one solution is to interrupt on every character, but that might get in the way of other important timing.
2020-04-07T21:05:13 < Steffanx> and when it got this amount of bytes it will simply disable the interrupt
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2020-04-07T21:09:32 < nn7> this looks promising: https://github.com/MaJerle/stm32-usart-uart-dma-rx-tx
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2020-04-07T21:22:46 < nn7> Can I disable interrupts, do some work, then re-enable interrupts, and get any interrupts I missed to fire?
2020-04-07T21:26:11 < specing> yes
2020-04-07T21:30:03 < mawk> I believe that's called a critical section
2020-04-07T21:30:09 < mawk> you can choose which interrupts you can to block
2020-04-07T21:30:11 < mawk> based on their level
2020-04-07T21:30:17 < mawk> using the PRI something register
2020-04-07T21:31:12 < nn7> I'm just trying to solve this usart problem. It sounds like the solution I can understand is to do 1-byte interrupts but block interrupts while doing some critical communication with a peripheral, then re-enable interrupts.
2020-04-07T21:33:10 < specing> nn7: you could do DMA with timeout
2020-04-07T21:33:25 < specing> if you don't know the transfer size
2020-04-07T21:33:44 < specing> so you get an interrupt after either the buffer is full or a certain time has passed
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2020-04-07T21:59:23 < nn7> specing, I see an example of that here: https://github.com/akospasztor/stm32-dma-uart/blob/master/Src/main.c
2020-04-07T22:00:29 < specing> Cool
2020-04-07T22:02:03 < specing> nn7: Just a reminder that C sucks and that nobody should use it
2020-04-07T22:02:30 < nn7> I looked for a Cobol compiler for STM32 but didn't find any.
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2020-04-07T22:03:29 < kakimir> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/G.hn
2020-04-07T22:03:33 < kakimir> reboot
2020-04-07T22:03:37 < kakimir> bbl>
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2020-04-07T22:05:53 < nn7> Ug, I just need to pay somebody to solve this for me.
2020-04-07T22:07:01 < aandrew> I've yet to use DMA with UART
2020-04-07T22:07:25 < aandrew> I usually pussy out and just use interrupts, it's low-resource and works well
2020-04-07T22:07:47 < srk> heh, reminds me I need to do DMA regs so I can re-add DMAd UART driver
2020-04-07T22:08:07 < nn7> I guess I'm fine with that as long as I can keep the interrupts from interrupting my software 1-wire implementation.
2020-04-07T22:08:10 < srk> aandrew: unless you get over/underflows!
2020-04-07T22:09:40 < aandrew> srk: I've got multimegabit streams without over/underflows
2020-04-07T22:09:49 < srk> what device?
2020-04-07T22:09:55 < aandrew> stm32f407
2020-04-07T22:10:00 < srk> yeah, that one is fine :)
2020-04-07T22:10:03 < srk> try something recent
2020-04-07T22:10:10 < aandrew> they made it suckier?
2020-04-07T22:10:14 < srk> for some surprises
2020-04-07T22:10:16 < nn7> I'm only dealing with 9600 baud streams
2020-04-07T22:10:43 < Steffanx> if you want to see a weird movie you should watch The Platform, if you havent already seen it mr jadew
2020-04-07T22:11:09 < nn7> only rated 7.0 on IMDB
2020-04-07T22:11:16 < Steffanx> Yeah because horror and stuff
2020-04-07T22:11:26 < srk>  science fiction horror-thriller
2020-04-07T22:11:27 < srk> haha
2020-04-07T22:11:31 < srk> sounds good!
2020-04-07T22:11:35 < Steffanx> Not many horror movies have good score.
2020-04-07T22:11:43 < srk> yeah :(
2020-04-07T22:11:46 < nn7> won a bunch of awards
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2020-04-07T22:12:00 < nn7> oh, yeah, if I compare that against other horror movies, that is a pretty good score
2020-04-07T22:12:01 < Steffanx> Im not into horror at all, but this isnt the typical horror stuff. 
2020-04-07T22:12:29 < Steffanx> And it's in spanish, probably doesnt up the score much either
2020-04-07T22:13:09 < nn7> Amores Perros was 8.1
2020-04-07T22:14:01 < Steffanx> but that's not horror according to imdb
2020-04-07T22:14:13 < nn7> this is true.
2020-04-07T22:14:14 < srk> https://yts.mx/movie/the-platform-2019
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2020-04-07T22:14:29 < specing> nn7 | I looked for a Cobol compiler for STM32 but didn't find any.
2020-04-07T22:14:33 < specing> nn7: why?
2020-04-07T22:14:43 < srk> you can do Cobol -> C
2020-04-07T22:14:59 < nn7> because you said C sucks.
2020-04-07T22:15:24 < srk> not as intermediate repre
2020-04-07T22:15:38 < srk> just treat it like assembler
2020-04-07T22:16:54 < nn7> on punch cards?
2020-04-07T22:18:18 < srk> assembler on punch cards and coke
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2020-04-07T22:20:44 < specing> nn7: you couldn't think of anything better?
2020-04-07T22:20:46 < specing> Damn
2020-04-07T22:21:57 < nn7> I never said I was smart.
2020-04-07T22:23:01 < specing> nn7: https://www.adacore.com/download/more
2020-04-07T22:23:55 < aandrew> I have a feeling I wouldn't mind Ada. I do like VHDL
2020-04-07T22:24:09 < aandrew> but I also like VHDL because it's *not* C and describing hardware is different than programming
2020-04-07T22:24:17 < nn7> Yeah, no thanks. I've seen enough of the military spending millions jumping through hoops to continue to support legacy Ada code.
2020-04-07T22:24:18 < aandrew> maybe I wouldn't like doing software development in Ada after all
2020-04-07T22:24:41 < vmt> specing: you are still a proponent of ada, very sad
2020-04-07T22:24:48 < specing> nn7: you don't have to write Ada83
2020-04-07T22:24:52 < vmt> specing: do you still use emacs too :(
2020-04-07T22:24:54 < specing> you can write Ada2012
2020-04-07T22:25:36 < specing> aandrew: learning Ada has helped me a lot with VHDL
2020-04-07T22:25:41 < srk> vmt: what's sad about that?
2020-04-07T22:25:57 < specing> srk: didn't you hear? You are not cool unless you use C!
2020-04-07T22:26:31 < srk> ah :)
2020-04-07T22:27:01 < srk> tought it was cool 40y ago
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2020-04-07T22:30:02 < aandrew> nah it's cool even today
2020-04-07T22:30:08 < specing> Ada was always cool, as it was always ahead of everyone
2020-04-07T22:30:10 < aandrew> as long as you ocnsider making good money doing something cool
2020-04-07T22:30:19 < specing> Perhaps that is why it was never accepted
2020-04-07T22:31:38 < vmt> rofl
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2020-04-07T23:07:54 < nn7> maybe it's best just to do polling
2020-04-07T23:08:49 < specing> nn7:depends on protocol used
2020-04-07T23:09:38 < nn7> I'm inventing my own, and it's pretty slow.
2020-04-07T23:10:12 < nn7> 9600 baud, and it's a call and response type of thing
2020-04-07T23:10:30 < specing> ahhh 
2020-04-07T23:10:35 < specing> then just use interrupts
2020-04-07T23:13:16 < nn7> can I use the receive interrupt and just block the transmit?
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2020-04-07T23:15:05 < specing> hmm?
2020-04-07T23:15:21 < nn7> since receive and transmit interrupts collide with each other
2020-04-07T23:16:02 < specing> you can transmit in the receive ISR without problems
2020-04-07T23:18:19 < nn7> so if I have two UARTs, they're going to share the HAL_UART_RxCpltCallBack?
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2020-04-07T23:28:45 < specing> nn7: on my chip, there are three ISRS: 1 for UART1, 1 for UART 2,3 and the third one for UART 4,5,6,7
2020-04-07T23:29:22 < nn7> using HAL?
2020-04-07T23:30:39 < specing> nn7: that's the hardware implementation
2020-04-07T23:30:46 < specing> I'm not using HAL as I'm not using C
2020-04-07T23:31:07 < nn7> oh
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--- Day changed Wed Apr 08 2020
2020-04-08T00:09:31 -!- Laurenceb [~laurence@223.141.208.46.dyn.plus.net] has joined ##stm32
2020-04-08T00:09:34 < Laurenceb> >David Icke did 5G petrol bombing
2020-04-08T00:09:40 < Laurenceb> lol its like eternal 1990s
2020-04-08T00:18:18 < kakimir> finally
2020-04-08T00:18:25 < kakimir> bring back 90s
2020-04-08T00:18:36 < kakimir> but keep 2020 internet connectivity
2020-04-08T00:19:05 < Laurenceb> inb4 it was his facebook friend Jeremy Corbyn who petrol bombed the 5G base stations
2020-04-08T00:19:25 < kakimir> is there mode in kicad that starts barking if there is not continuous ground under controlled impendance trace?
2020-04-08T00:21:38 < zyp> good luck
2020-04-08T00:23:46 < Steffanx> Write a python script for it kakimir 
2020-04-08T00:24:01 < kakimir> no
2020-04-08T00:24:10 < Steffanx> Python is cool. Python is good. Python4ever
2020-04-08T00:27:49 < kakimir> I'm not going to add band-aid to something that needs a surgery
2020-04-08T00:28:55  * BrainDamage cuts off kakimir's fingers
2020-04-08T00:29:56 < oz4ga> then he can't write Python unless we fasten a stick in hes fore head
2020-04-08T00:30:45 < antto> unicorn kaki
2020-04-08T00:31:23 < Steffanx> Specing did you do a kicad plugin in ada yet?
2020-04-08T00:32:19 < specing> Steffanx: no, why would I and what would it do?
2020-04-08T00:32:54 < Steffanx> Because ADS
2020-04-08T00:32:58 < Steffanx> ADA
2020-04-08T00:38:22 < Steffanx> I smell oil. Is that you kakimir?
2020-04-08T00:38:31 < kakimir> no
2020-04-08T00:38:41 -!- drozdziak1 [~drozdziak@83.ip-92-222-87.eu] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
2020-04-08T00:38:45 < kakimir> I don't have pleasant odour
2020-04-08T00:39:17 < oz4ga> Steffanx: If you smell like a Unicorn then it's kaki ;)
2020-04-08T00:39:28 < oz4ga> Unicorn oil?
2020-04-08T00:39:33 < Steffanx> Hm.
2020-04-08T00:40:07 < kakimir> if you smell unique snowflake smell it's kaki
2020-04-08T00:40:07 < Steffanx> What does a 🦄  smell like?
2020-04-08T00:40:35 < kakimir> it smells like magic
2020-04-08T00:40:54 < BrainDamage> smells like stm32
2020-04-08T00:41:11 < BrainDamage> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hTWKbfoikeg
2020-04-08T00:41:43 < qyx> https://upload.emefka.sk/posts/02/97/60297.jpg
2020-04-08T00:43:35 < Steffanx> Germany, Korea, EU. Why germany AND EU?
2020-04-08T00:44:11 < BrainDamage> because germany has egemony over the eu, duh
2020-04-08T00:45:12 < kakimir> when you go south from germany
2020-04-08T00:45:24 < kakimir> all kind of weird stuff starts to happen with wall outlets
2020-04-08T00:45:34 < kakimir> every trainstop there is different outlet
2020-04-08T00:48:17 < Steffanx> So which one is technically the best?
2020-04-08T00:48:25 < Steffanx> The only important question
2020-04-08T00:48:37 < kakimir> technically?
2020-04-08T00:48:45 < Steffanx> Yes
2020-04-08T00:48:47 < BrainDamage> the swiss one is probably a good compromise
2020-04-08T00:48:57 < BrainDamage> the uk one is just overkill
2020-04-08T00:49:13 < qyx> UK is not shrouded
2020-04-08T00:49:27 < qyx> schuko is the best of course
2020-04-08T00:49:37 < Steffanx> EU/germany is the best. Orientation doesnt matter
2020-04-08T00:49:37 < kakimir> f-type or that danish one
2020-04-08T00:49:43 < kakimir> because polarized
2020-04-08T00:49:48 < qyx> it doesn't matter
2020-04-08T00:49:49 < BrainDamage> italian one doesn't matter either
2020-04-08T00:49:50 < qyx> we have polarized
2020-04-08T00:50:08 < kakimir> if it doesn't matter then german thing
2020-04-08T00:50:28 < BrainDamage> why large and bulky plug?
2020-04-08T00:50:31 < qyx> as long as you can plug this in https://images-na.ssl-images-amazon.com/images/I/51VN4WU4GIL._AC_SL1000_.jpg
2020-04-08T00:50:40 < Steffanx> But can you stick your thing or other body parts in those big holes easily BrainDamage?
2020-04-08T00:51:01 < BrainDamage> Steffanx: italian plugs have spring loaded covers
2020-04-08T00:51:09 < qyx> all?
2020-04-08T00:51:14 < BrainDamage> it's pretty hard to plug them with random crap
2020-04-08T00:51:17 < BrainDamage> modern ones
2020-04-08T00:51:31 < qyx> oh covering the holes only
2020-04-08T00:51:35 < qyx> not the whole plug
2020-04-08T00:51:41 < qyx> yeah
2020-04-08T00:51:54 < BrainDamage> yes, the holes, the plug itself is shouded except the tips
2020-04-08T00:52:17 < kakimir> the trick is to have a nail in both of your hands
2020-04-08T00:52:20 < BrainDamage> the weird wtf thing is the double-step sockets
2020-04-08T00:52:20 < BrainDamage> https://i.ebayimg.com/images/g/TVYAAOxyyF5RUFld/s-l400.jpg
2020-04-08T00:52:24 < kakimir> and shove them at same time
2020-04-08T00:52:43 < BrainDamage> old sockets were 10A only, and new ones 16A
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2020-04-08T00:52:50 < BrainDamage> and to fit either, there's that monstruosity
2020-04-08T00:52:55 < Steffanx> Here you a sometimes you see the flat version of the german/eu one, without PE and you have make rotating motion to get it in
2020-04-08T00:52:56 < BrainDamage> but it has a nice feature
2020-04-08T00:53:13 < kakimir> isn't that swiss thing like not even compatible contact distance with eu plug?
2020-04-08T00:53:16 < BrainDamage> if you jam really hard a shucko, you can fit it in the small hholes
2020-04-08T00:53:35 < kakimir> I remember that my phone charger or pc charger or something didn't fit
2020-04-08T00:53:37 < qyx> you can fit the "small" schuko inside
2020-04-08T00:53:42 < qyx> the 2.5A one
2020-04-08T00:53:50 < qyx> I didn't try the 16A one :>
2020-04-08T00:53:57 < BrainDamage> I've managed to fit the 16A fine more than once
2020-04-08T00:54:09 < BrainDamage> it all depends on the socket tolerances and your strength
2020-04-08T00:54:20 < Steffanx> tcth_ and his inventions
2020-04-08T00:54:21 < qyx> usually we don't bring any appliance with 16A schuko to Italy
2020-04-08T00:54:32 < qyx> but all chargers and such stuff is copatible
2020-04-08T00:54:45 < qyx> except ntebook chargers
2020-04-08T00:54:50 < qyx> we had adapters for that
2020-04-08T00:55:09 < BrainDamage> I remember being in a tgv and being super pissed that I couldn't plug my laptop due to gnd
2020-04-08T00:55:16 < qyx> haha
2020-04-08T00:56:07 < tcth_> sup Steffanx ?
2020-04-08T00:56:16 < Steffanx> Not much tcth_  
2020-04-08T00:56:38 < tcth_> ack
2020-04-08T00:56:40 < Steffanx> But swisserland came up and swisserland = tct
2020-04-08T00:57:08 < BrainDamage> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/One-electron_universe
2020-04-08T00:57:20 < BrainDamage> same thing, but all swiss are tcth_
2020-04-08T00:58:48 < Steffanx> Lol. I'm going to make such calls 
2020-04-08T00:59:02 < Steffanx> Just that. And then hang up
2020-04-08T01:05:09 < Steffanx> But I dont think my ideas will end up in someone's nobel price talk
2020-04-08T01:05:21 < Steffanx> *speech
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2020-04-08T01:08:12 < Laurenceb> lolwhat
2020-04-08T01:08:42 < Laurenceb> sheet
2020-04-08T01:08:46 < Laurenceb> 7k dead in a day
2020-04-08T01:09:21 < kakimir> tommorow it's 10k
2020-04-08T01:09:29 < kakimir> etc.
2020-04-08T01:10:03 < Steffanx> World wide that is
2020-04-08T01:10:13 < Steffanx> And the fake stats
2020-04-08T01:10:27 < Steffanx> Nah real stats with missing numbers
2020-04-08T01:10:43 < Steffanx> Dont tests = no confirmed cases right.
2020-04-08T01:10:52 < qyx> hm USA has 400k of 2000k tests positive
2020-04-08T01:11:02 < qyx> thats about 20%
2020-04-08T01:11:33 < qyx> we have only 3.3% positive
2020-04-08T01:11:56 < Steffanx> But how many tests? And who is tested
2020-04-08T01:12:18 < Laurenceb> because Mexico paid for the tests
2020-04-08T01:13:11 < qyx> Steffanx: we are testing mostly symptomatic cases, which means we should have even higher numbers
2020-04-08T01:13:13 < Steffanx> I heard mexico started working on the wall
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2020-04-08T01:13:52 < qyx> and apparently there are not enough symptomatic cases to test
2020-04-08T01:14:15 < qyx> so they are starting to test others too
2020-04-08T01:14:41 < qyx> also private labs are n ow allowed to do paid tests of general public
2020-04-08T01:15:09 < specing> Laurenceb: where? USA?
2020-04-08T01:15:38 < Laurenceb> total
2020-04-08T01:16:14 -!- c10ud [~c10ud@emesene/dictator/c10ud] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds]
2020-04-08T01:16:20 < qyx> unrelated, /me is returning to the SD card PCB
2020-04-08T01:22:51 < Steffanx> Some days ago I read about the multi SD card thing and I had to think about you :P
2020-04-08T01:23:04 < Steffanx> Not sure where I read about it
2020-04-08T01:23:08 < kakimir> any nice boards to order while i order?
2020-04-08T01:23:49 < Steffanx> What about some nice soap and magic smell?
2020-04-08T01:24:03 < qyx> itis going to be the top innovation of 2020
2020-04-08T01:24:10 < englishman> my immunology postdoc pal says 1.5m dead in china
2020-04-08T01:24:39 < qyx> how does he know
2020-04-08T01:24:42 < emeb> Anyone have any experience setting up SDRAM timing regs in the FMC? 
2020-04-08T01:24:43 < qyx> estimation?
2020-04-08T01:24:55 < englishman> did you just misgender my pal
2020-04-08T01:25:07 < Laurenceb> https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-birmingham-52200369
2020-04-08T01:25:08 < qyx> *how does they know
2020-04-08T01:25:11 < Laurenceb> nice stock photo
2020-04-08T01:25:31 < Laurenceb> >racist against eastern euros
2020-04-08T01:25:35 < emeb> I'm getting random data corruption and tweaking the RPIPE setting seems to fix it, but I can't really understand what that param is related to.
2020-04-08T01:25:43 < Steffanx> Is his name thajew, englishman  ?
2020-04-08T01:26:25 < englishman> wot
2020-04-08T01:26:36 < englishman> no she doesnt irc. too busy giving cancer to rats
2020-04-08T01:28:16 < Steffanx> Lol I googled rpipe sdram and it seems even the great clive1 doesnt want to burn his fingers on that one. 
2020-04-08T01:29:08 < kakimir> Laurenceb: did you send pole home?
2020-04-08T01:29:44 < karlp> hrm, fedex texts that parcel is in customs processing, fedex texts that parcel has cleared and will be delievered between 12 and 17.
2020-04-08T01:29:45 < Laurenceb> they mostly went home yeag
2020-04-08T01:29:48 < karlp> no fedex appears....
2020-04-08T01:30:40 < Steffanx> Awh
2020-04-08T01:30:48 < Steffanx> Coronizzled?
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2020-04-08T01:33:58  * karlp shrugs
2020-04-08T01:34:01 < kakimir> that is normal
2020-04-08T01:34:18 < kakimir> they say they deliver but never when you are home right?
2020-04-08T01:34:34 < Steffanx> Never happened to me
2020-04-08T01:35:37 < emeb> Steffanx: heh - thx for the info.
2020-04-08T01:35:59 < Steffanx> You didnt see the post emeb?
2020-04-08T01:36:10 < emeb> Steffanx: no. got linky?
2020-04-08T01:36:39 < Steffanx> The question was kinda like: wtf is rpipe
2020-04-08T01:36:41 < Steffanx> https://community.st.com/s/question/0D50X00009ZDxX1/stm32f427-and-sdram
2020-04-08T01:36:49 < kakimir> Steffanx: me neather
2020-04-08T01:36:52 < Steffanx> Clive1: go ask sdram expert
2020-04-08T01:36:59 < emeb> haha
2020-04-08T01:38:30 < emeb> most all ST examples I've looked at set the value to 0. I've got one older board with Rev Y STM32H743 that works fine with this, but a new board with Rev V STM32H743 that doesn't.
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2020-04-08T01:40:18 < emeb> related: it's kinda spooky how far off on most SDRAM timing you can be and things still work fine.
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2020-04-08T01:41:25 < emeb> I used default values from some example code that worked w/o issues. Then looked closely at data sheet and saw most values were too short. Fixing that slowed my code noticeably. 
2020-04-08T01:41:50 < Steffanx> Until it randomly fails when you give your device to kakimir in his sauna
2020-04-08T01:42:23 < Steffanx> Or when he takes it outside after that
2020-04-08T01:42:32 < emeb> Of course. That's why I leave the settings at the proper values and just shrug at the slow code.
2020-04-08T01:43:37 < emeb> (and move as many of those buffers into on-chip SRAM as possible)
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2020-04-08T01:44:09 < Steffanx> F7 or H7 it was?
2020-04-08T01:44:37 < emeb> H7
2020-04-08T01:45:08 < Steffanx> My current F7 project decodes 2 mp3 files at the same time. It was funny to see how much data and instruction cache improved its performance.
2020-04-08T01:45:35 < emeb> Oh yeah. Cache is *essential* for performance on H7.
2020-04-08T01:46:56 < emeb> But then you get all kinds of fun stuff happening when you need to use DMA. Learning the clean and invalidate calls is important there.
2020-04-08T01:47:05 < qyx> Steffanx: dud yoi measure the current consumption?
2020-04-08T01:47:08 < qyx> *did you
2020-04-08T01:47:21 < Steffanx> That's irrelevant. Lol
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2020-04-08T01:47:34 < qyx> just curious
2020-04-08T01:47:56 < Steffanx> No, but I think the real hw engineer will do that at some point
2020-04-08T01:48:18 < Steffanx> At work that is.
2020-04-08T01:49:51 < qyx> I shoud just test that
2020-04-08T01:50:17 < qyx> I need to run 3200bps codec2 on a suitable micro
2020-04-08T01:50:32 < qyx> and get reasonable runtime on a lisocl2 battery
2020-04-08T01:50:41 < Steffanx> F722 is pretty fancy and not even that expensive
2020-04-08T01:50:59 < qyx> the winner so far seems to be L4 overclocked to 140MHz :>
2020-04-08T01:51:12 < Steffanx> Heh. 
2020-04-08T01:51:47 < qyx> I did the comb filter for PDM microphone in software, so probably using the DFSDM periph it can go lower
2020-04-08T01:52:13 < qyx> now innovating another thing
2020-04-08T01:52:35 < qyx> a remote openocd debugger with gprs
2020-04-08T01:52:58  * qyx staring at allwinne f1c100s
2020-04-08T01:53:54 < Steffanx> Uh yay?
2020-04-08T01:58:03 < qyx> https://www.thirtythreeforty.net/posts/2019/12/my-business-card-runs-linux/
2020-04-08T01:58:32 < qyx> oh I didn't find this thing when I searched the last time
2020-04-08T02:00:04 < qyx> $2.88 BOM for a linux "computer"
2020-04-08T02:04:24  * qyx pulling out a licheepi nano from the drawed
2020-04-08T02:04:29 < qyx> *drawer
2020-04-08T02:09:13 < Steffanx> I wonder if you could make something hingy you can connect an ethernet cable to. Although the magnetis might be an issue
2020-04-08T02:09:43 < qyx> an ethernet debugger?
2020-04-08T02:09:53 < qyx> just avoid the magnetics
2020-04-08T02:10:04 < qyx> caps and yolo
2020-04-08T02:10:25 < Steffanx> No, just to add ethernet to your business card :)
2020-04-08T02:11:27 < qyx> eps8266 with wps button would be probably easier
2020-04-08T02:11:44 < qyx> esp, not even able to type anymore
2020-04-08T02:11:48 < Steffanx> Probably.
2020-04-08T02:12:09 < Steffanx> Not running lunix on your business card is probably better anyway
2020-04-08T02:13:10 < qyx> I should try if openocd can bitbang those GPIOs
2020-04-08T02:13:26 < qyx> I know it works on rpi
2020-04-08T02:14:47 < Steffanx> Yeah seen it happen too
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2020-04-08T02:51:39 < jadew> one of my monitors stopped working and I don't have enough caps to fix it :/
2020-04-08T02:54:02 < jadew> and I cut my hand while opening it 
2020-04-08T02:54:47 < jadew> if I order now, I'd be lucky to get them on Friday
2020-04-08T02:58:10 < Steffanx> My screen is dying.
2020-04-08T02:58:47 < Steffanx> Something is happening with the panel. 
2020-04-08T02:58:53 < jadew> mine was showing symptoms for a while now, I had to turn it on and off again several times before the backlight stayed on
2020-04-08T02:59:30 < BrainDamage> they caught the virus
2020-04-08T02:59:35 < Steffanx> I dont want to return it now. I need it for my home work coronizzling
2020-04-08T02:59:55 < Steffanx> And I dont want to buy  a new one
2020-04-08T03:00:38 < jadew> you have just the one?
2020-04-08T03:00:51 < Steffanx> 2
2020-04-08T03:01:05 < jadew> so it's not the end of the world
2020-04-08T03:02:00 < Steffanx> http://imgur.com/a/JiGqGB1
2020-04-08T03:02:01 < englishman> just the two?
2020-04-08T03:02:16 < jadew> after this cut dries a little, I'll try using lower value caps
2020-04-08T03:02:25 < Steffanx> No space for 25 screens englishman 
2020-04-08T03:02:26 < jadew> maybe I can put them in parallel
2020-04-08T03:02:53 < jadew> that looks like heat damage
2020-04-08T03:03:21 < Steffanx> It getting worse.. daily
2020-04-08T03:03:25 < Steffanx> Its
2020-04-08T03:03:35 < jadew> yeah, my phone's screen got that
2020-04-08T03:03:50 < jadew> in my case, it's the glue
2020-04-08T03:04:19 < Steffanx> Seems to happen more with this specific screen. 
2020-04-08T03:05:02 < Steffanx> I noticed it months ago, but couldn't be arsed to return it :P
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2020-04-08T04:00:23 < kakimir> movie recommds?
2020-04-08T04:01:20 < nn7> https://www.imdb.com/chart/top/
2020-04-08T04:02:49 < nn7> Crap, there's now 7 in the top 100 that I haven't seen. Need to step up.
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2020-04-08T04:22:43 < dongs> wow
2020-04-08T04:22:56 < dongs> top10 are the shittiest movies of all time
2020-04-08T04:37:31 < dongs> they might as well call it top unfunny movies of all time
2020-04-08T04:38:35 < dongs> never watched: #1 #2,3,5,6,7,8,9,10,11,12,15,17,18,19,20,21, shit almost nothing off the top list. they all sounded absolutely boring nad unfunny
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2020-04-08T04:42:58 < aandrew> wtf is top10
2020-04-08T04:43:10 < dongs> < nn7> https://www.imdb.com/chart/top/
2020-04-08T04:43:12 < dongs> this
2020-04-08T04:43:32 < dongs> maybe 1-2 movies in that list worth watching in top 20, the rest are just shit
2020-04-08T04:45:14 < aandrew> ah
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2020-04-08T04:45:48 < dongs> chinaman
2020-04-08T04:45:54 < aandrew> I had a friend who would give *anything* IMDB rated 7 or better a watch, said he found a lot of movies he'd never have seen before using that system
2020-04-08T04:46:08 < upgrdman> sup dongs
2020-04-08T04:46:12 < dongs> not much
2020-04-08T04:46:14 < dongs> how's covid
2020-04-08T04:46:17 < dongs> are you in china or usa
2020-04-08T04:46:24 < aandrew> hm, on the top ten I have seen 2 or 3 and definitely disagree with zomg
2020-04-08T04:47:20 < upgrdman> any msys2 pros in here? after i added the msys2 directories to my PATH, when i use regular old cmd.exe, tab autocompletion no longer works. is there a fix or work around for this?
2020-04-08T04:47:33 < upgrdman> dongs, china'd. feeling good so far.
2020-04-08T04:47:40 < dongs> nice
2020-04-08T04:47:46 < dongs> big rip man, they'll never let you back in usa
2020-04-08T04:47:49 < upgrdman> face masks get annoying tho
2020-04-08T04:47:56 < upgrdman> haha ya
2020-04-08T04:48:20 < upgrdman> last i read, cn is safer than the us right now
2020-04-08T04:48:27 < dongs> lols, prolly
2020-04-08T04:48:30 < upgrdman> but im not too worried either way
2020-04-08T04:49:00 < dongs> yeah shit only kills fat fucks or grandpas
2020-04-08T04:49:09 < upgrdman> is .jp ok? iirc a lot of their population is old people
2020-04-08T04:49:15 < upgrdman> inorite
2020-04-08T04:49:39 < dongs> https://www1.nyc.gov/assets/doh/downloads/pdf/imm/covid-19-daily-data-summary-deaths-04072020-2.pdf
2020-04-08T04:49:53 < dongs> check out the death count with "no underlying conditions"
2020-04-08T04:49:57 < dongs> practically nothing
2020-04-08T04:50:07 < upgrdman> mhmm
2020-04-08T04:50:09 < dongs> and hundreds of fat fucks
2020-04-08T04:50:31 < upgrdman> natures way of weeding out the weak
2020-04-08T04:50:37 < upgrdman> *thumbs up* amirite
2020-04-08T04:51:19 < kakimir> see that sex profiling
2020-04-08T04:51:27 < kakimir> "unknown"
2020-04-08T04:52:51 < kakimir> they were like "whaa.. I just write this down as unknown"
2020-04-08T04:53:18 < kakimir> nullify>
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2020-04-08T04:54:46 < upgrdman> "Underlying illnesses include Diabetes" shit, that's like 90% of 'murica right there
2020-04-08T04:55:51 < nn7> aandrew, I've been 7.6 or higher for quite some time. Saw lots of really good movies, and found plenty of over-rateds. Just be careful of the the movies from places like Turkey where they'll just get bombarded by really high reviews by a small number of people.
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2020-04-08T05:48:07 < jadew> what's "underlying conditions pending"?
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2020-04-08T06:07:35 < englishman> isn't upgrdman fat as fuck
2020-04-08T06:08:03 < upgrdman> englishman, was. been fit for the last 1.5yrs
2020-04-08T06:08:25 < englishman> nice
2020-04-08T06:08:28 < englishman> good on you
2020-04-08T06:08:45 < upgrdman> thx
2020-04-08T06:10:39 < englishman> "no underlying conditions" includes fat people who can't afford a doctor
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2020-04-08T12:46:40 < Cracki> til my smartphone's microphone is sensitive enough to pick up freqs below 20 hz, and sensitive enough to pick up the upstairs neighbor walking around when I can't hear it at all
2020-04-08T13:03:50 < Thorn> musics https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oxoqm05c7yA
2020-04-08T13:07:05 < Cracki> hahaha gay cruising app added a "stay strong" poke (WIR SCHAFFEN DAS -Merkel)
2020-04-08T13:07:36 < Cracki> because diseases have been such a NOVEL problem in the gay community
2020-04-08T13:22:14 < tcth_> wat
2020-04-08T13:23:05 < Steffanx> that.
2020-04-08T13:23:16 < Steffanx> How about you tcth_?
2020-04-08T13:23:41 < tcth_> yep
2020-04-08T13:23:49 < tcth_> and you?
2020-04-08T13:26:01 < Steffanx> Yes, awesome.
2020-04-08T13:26:52 < tcth_> good to hear!
2020-04-08T13:26:55 < tcth_> how is dutching?
2020-04-08T13:27:12 < Steffanx> Yeah awesome too.
2020-04-08T13:27:44 < tcth_> nice
2020-04-08T13:27:49 < Steffanx> time for lunch
2020-04-08T13:27:49 < tcth_> I wonder how R2COM is doing
2020-04-08T13:27:52 < tcth_> has he been around lately?
2020-04-08T13:27:56 < Steffanx> Yes
2020-04-08T13:28:08 < Steffanx> He's been raging alot about COVID-0x13
2020-04-08T13:28:18 < tcth_> how come?
2020-04-08T13:28:21 < Steffanx> And the 3rd world countries in mainly eustern europe
2020-04-08T13:28:28 < tcth_> he´s the russian guy living in trumpland, right?
2020-04-08T13:28:32 < Steffanx> yeah
2020-04-08T13:28:51 < Steffanx> or some eastern europe country, idk.
2020-04-08T13:29:17 < mawk> R2COM doesn't like me
2020-04-08T13:29:23 < Steffanx> me neither.
2020-04-08T13:29:35 < mawk> because one day someone gave me a +o for joking, and at the same time R2COM started talking about niggers
2020-04-08T13:29:39 < Steffanx> Finally something can agree on with R2COM
2020-04-08T13:29:41 < mawk> so I said it's maybe not a wise word to use
2020-04-08T13:29:50 < mawk> and he thought I was threatening to ban him or something
2020-04-08T13:29:55 < Steffanx> HAHA
2020-04-08T13:30:20 < Steffanx> You should try that one on Cracki. He will ignore you forever.
2020-04-08T13:30:21 < tcth_> lol
2020-04-08T13:30:34 < mawk> :(
2020-04-08T13:30:34 < tcth_> I´m sure Cracki has other concerns at the moment.
2020-04-08T13:30:45 < Cracki> what is it
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2020-04-08T13:31:08 < Cracki> why is mawk sad
2020-04-08T13:31:50 < tcth_> well he´s french.
2020-04-08T13:31:57 < tcth_> what else would he be.
2020-04-08T13:32:25 < Cracki> https://gab.com/system/media_attachments/files/011/149/507/original/f64fcc55a9b8bac2.jpeg?1571413615
2020-04-08T13:32:55 < mawk> lol
2020-04-08T13:32:59 < Cracki> no, he stepped on different magic soil, he's now dutch
2020-04-08T13:33:18 < Steffanx> *also dutch
2020-04-08T13:33:24 < Steffanx> still also dutch
2020-04-08T13:33:40 < mawk> it's all part of the french kingdom anyway
2020-04-08T13:33:56 < Cracki> Lebensraum im Westen
2020-04-08T13:34:04 < tcth_> Cracki, you´re one to talk ;-)
2020-04-08T13:34:26 < Cracki> let's talk about alsace lorraine :D
2020-04-08T13:34:33 < tcth_> Cracki, can you explain the comic/joke you posted? Steffanx and me don´t get it.
2020-04-08T13:34:38 < Cracki> uh
2020-04-08T13:34:53 < Cracki> you see the big letters and understand the word, yes?
2020-04-08T13:35:01 < tcth_> yeah
2020-04-08T13:35:02 < tcth_> so?
2020-04-08T13:35:04 < mawk> you need to read up to down
2020-04-08T13:35:07 < Cracki> the meme of it is that people on twitter got nuked for saying the bad n-word
2020-04-08T13:35:09 < Steffanx> Dont say it, dont say it. You will get a ban mr tcth_ :P
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2020-04-08T13:35:17 < Cracki> and then people started replying with single letters, in long towers
2020-04-08T13:35:24 < Cracki> allow me to demonstrate
2020-04-08T13:35:24 < Cracki> N
2020-04-08T13:35:36 < tcth_> I
2020-04-08T13:36:07 < Cracki> https://giphy.com/gifs/film-monty-python-and-the-holy-grail-ALBfFB6gP1evu
2020-04-08T13:36:17 < tcth_> alright, well thanks. I think my problem here is that I don´t know twitter nor am I racist so it was just pointless to me.
2020-04-08T13:36:28 < Cracki> nobody is perfect
2020-04-08T13:36:34 < Steffanx> Not a racist? Wut?
2020-04-08T13:36:40 < mawk> everybody's racist
2020-04-08T13:36:43 < tcth_> nah
2020-04-08T13:36:44 < mawk> it's part of the human nature
2020-04-08T13:36:46 < Cracki> nature is racist
2020-04-08T13:36:53 < Cracki> the laws of the universe are racist
2020-04-08T13:36:57 < tcth_> dude, I live in switzerland - there is no such thing as racism here as there´s no such thing as ¨a swiss person¨
2020-04-08T13:37:09 < tcth_> except for me ofc.
2020-04-08T13:37:09 < Steffanx> No, all swiss are tcth_
2020-04-08T13:37:13 < Steffanx> we concluded that yesterday
2020-04-08T13:37:25 < mawk> yeah, so you know the law of regression to the mean tcth_ ?
2020-04-08T13:37:32 < Steffanx> 2020-04-08T00:56:40 < Steffanx> But swisserland came up and swisserland = tct
2020-04-08T13:37:32 < Steffanx> 2020-04-08T00:57:08 < BrainDamage> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/One-electron_universe
2020-04-08T13:37:32 < Steffanx> 2020-04-08T00:57:20 < BrainDamage> same thing, but all swiss are tcth_
2020-04-08T13:37:33 < tcth_> Cracki, can you elaborate? I might need that argument in a court room one day
2020-04-08T13:37:56 < tcth_> mawk, jup
2020-04-08T13:38:01 < tcth_> Steffanx, time to read that wiki article then
2020-04-08T13:38:03 < Cracki> if you pull out calipers in a court room...
2020-04-08T13:38:04 < mawk> if switzerland is exceptionally not racist, then the rest of the world is racist
2020-04-08T13:38:06 < mawk> QED
2020-04-08T13:38:29 < Cracki> you can approach it from a genetics angle
2020-04-08T13:38:36 < Steffanx> https://www.thelocal.ch/20191029/racism-in-switzerland-people-of-colour-are-automatically-perceived-as-foreigners first google result. damn you tcth_
2020-04-08T13:38:44 < Cracki> or from a behavioral angle
2020-04-08T13:38:53 < tcth_> mawk, QED was the only thing I never understood in the series.
2020-04-08T13:39:00 < tcth_> lol Cracki 
2020-04-08T13:39:18 < Cracki> quad erat demonstrandum, did I get that right
2020-04-08T13:39:28 < Cracki> around here the prof does a little square.
2020-04-08T13:39:36 < Cracki> that's basically a mic drop
2020-04-08T13:39:47 < tcth_> Steffanx, the link must be broken or something, only white page here. sorry brah
2020-04-08T13:40:07 < Steffanx> works fine
2020-04-08T13:40:11 < tcth_> damn, today I learn a lot more from ##stm32 than usual - what´s going on guys?!
2020-04-08T13:40:27 < Steffanx> Will you learn to ' today too?
2020-04-08T13:40:50 < tcth_> nope
2020-04-08T13:40:57 < tcth_> but I´ll learn how to -_
2020-04-08T13:41:00 -!- tcth_ is now known as tcth
2020-04-08T13:41:10 < Steffanx> ok, i will make you this key that only does ' 
2020-04-08T13:41:13 < Cracki> Where do you want to go today?
2020-04-08T13:41:14 < Steffanx> let me get my tarduino
2020-04-08T13:41:33 < tcth> alright, back to reading about vulkan - cu folks
2020-04-08T13:41:48 < Steffanx> Will you make games soon?
2020-04-08T13:41:52 < tcth> yes
2020-04-08T13:41:54 < Cracki> the vulcan salute is stolen from jew religious practice
2020-04-08T13:42:06 < Steffanx> lol really tcth?
2020-04-08T13:42:14 < tcth> yes
2020-04-08T13:42:18 < Steffanx> WHY
2020-04-08T13:42:24 < Steffanx> UGFX the game?
2020-04-08T13:42:50 < tcth> dunno man. really don´t feel like working anymore. so just chilling at home doing C++ shit all day long for like a week now. currently dicking around with OpenGL but considering to directly migrate to vulkan soon-ish
2020-04-08T13:43:01 < tcth> but first time to read more about vulkan
2020-04-08T13:43:28 < Steffanx> All you need is Game Maker: https://www.yoyogames.com/
2020-04-08T13:44:02 < tcth> nah
2020-04-08T13:44:18 < Steffanx> Game maker.. the good old times. I used that in a past far far away.
2020-04-08T13:45:13 < tcth> I take this opportunity to do everything from scratch (as in:  C++, OpenGL, SDL2, GLM and that´s about it)
2020-04-08T13:45:29 < tcth> ah, and the german nazi ass importer: https://assimp.org
2020-04-08T13:46:43 < Steffanx> hm
2020-04-08T13:47:17 < Steffanx> do you visit dumpert.nl on a daily basis yet mawk?
2020-04-08T13:50:10 < mawk> no :(
2020-04-08T13:50:13 < mawk> but sometimes
2020-04-08T13:54:15 < tcth> oh, I forgot about dumpert
2020-04-08T13:57:35 < tcth> mawk, what are you currently up to? still biossing?
2020-04-08T13:58:34 < mawk> I don't have time anymore for that
2020-04-08T13:58:45 < mawk> otherwise I'm doing some work for wireguard vpn
2020-04-08T13:58:45 < tcth> how come? most people have more time for that nowdays ;p
2020-04-08T13:58:55 < tcth> ah nice, I was looking into wireguard two years ago
2020-04-08T13:59:03 < tcth> decided for OpenVPN then anyway
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2020-04-08T13:59:08 < tcth> regretted it a year later
2020-04-08T13:59:09 < mawk> heresy
2020-04-08T13:59:12 < mawk> ah good
2020-04-08T13:59:33 < mawk> it is in version >= 1.0 now, since a week or two
2020-04-08T13:59:37 < tcth> ah good
2020-04-08T13:59:38 < mawk> also made its way into linux kernel
2020-04-08T13:59:48 < mawk> it's in 5.5 or 5.6 I think
2020-04-08T14:00:03 < tcth> because that was the main reason why I didn´t pick it - it seemed unfinished at that point and I needed it in production for a 2M customer project
2020-04-08T14:00:09 < tcth> but damn... OpenVPN... never again.
2020-04-08T14:00:20 < mawk> even 2 years ago it was pretty usable
2020-04-08T14:00:32 < mawk> nothing changed since then in the user-facing bits
2020-04-08T14:00:40 < tcth> jup, I had that feeling too but this was big bucks project so somebody needed to provide his ass - in this case me.
2020-04-08T14:00:44 < Steffanx> Oh I should stop using wireguard vpn now. Mawk is involved :P
2020-04-08T14:00:51 < mawk> :(
2020-04-08T14:01:01 < Steffanx> Haha
2020-04-08T14:01:04 < tcth> mawk, how´s FreeBSD & Windows support these days?
2020-04-08T14:01:15 < mawk> well it works
2020-04-08T14:01:19 < mawk> android as well, iOS
2020-04-08T14:01:38 < mawk> I even saw mention of plan9 in the source code I think
2020-04-08T14:01:55 < mawk> it's not a good as on linux where it's in the kernel, but it's still much faster than openvpn
2020-04-08T14:02:46 < tcth> so I can easily use wireguard to VPN between BSD & Windows w/o any issues?
2020-04-08T14:02:53 < tcth> while performance >= OpenVPN
2020-04-08T14:03:07 < tcth> but then again - after having actually worked with OpenVPN I decided that performance will no longer be that high up in the priority list
2020-04-08T14:05:36 < tcth> fuck man, the OpenVPN pain memory is coming back
2020-04-08T14:05:39 < tcth> I am so glad that project is over
2020-04-08T14:19:25 < zyp> what's wrong with openvpn?
2020-04-08T14:20:16 < zyp> I made some openvpn based stuff a few years ago, it's been running mostly hands off since
2020-04-08T14:20:38 < mawk> yes tcth I vpn between a windows pc and my android phone painlessly
2020-04-08T14:21:03 < mawk> what openvpn has and wireguard doesn't (well there is a wg-dynamic project but it's WIP) is autoconfiguration of clients
2020-04-08T14:21:18 < mawk> with the core wireguard for now you have to generate keys and distribute IPs
2020-04-08T14:21:30 < mawk> but I didn't look too hard into autoconf, maybe wg-dynamic is usable now
2020-04-08T14:22:17 < srk> zyp: configuration
2020-04-08T14:22:26 < zyp> the stuff I made includes a cert/config generator that creates a complete client package
2020-04-08T14:22:34 < srk> exactly this
2020-04-08T14:22:41 < srk> why does it needs certs? 
2020-04-08T14:23:22 < mawk> for crypto
2020-04-08T14:23:27 < zyp> PKI seemed preferrable to me over PSK
2020-04-08T14:23:27 < srk> oh
2020-04-08T14:23:31 < srk> for crypto you need certs?
2020-04-08T14:23:33 < mawk> wg isn't really PSK
2020-04-08T14:23:47 < mawk> it's public-key based, you can add a PSK for post-quantum resistance but it's optional
2020-04-08T14:24:31 < zyp> clients need to be authenticated somehow, issuing a cert for each client seemed the most suitable way in my case
2020-04-08T14:24:45 < zyp> not really different from issuing any other kind of credentials
2020-04-08T14:25:03 < srk> except it's PITA :)
2020-04-08T14:25:25 < zyp> how so?
2020-04-08T14:25:30 < mawk> with wg you need to get the client to generate a private key, then get the pubkey from it
2020-04-08T14:25:51 < mawk> or generate the private key on a centralized server but that sounds very much like adding vulnerability
2020-04-08T14:28:09 < srk> zyp: required number (manual) of steps, you can get wireguard client/server running with far less effort
2020-04-08T14:28:18 < srk> *of (manual) steps
2020-04-08T14:30:59 < zyp> dunno
2020-04-08T14:31:18 < zyp> my thing is a webservice that generates an .ovpn file for you, you download it and doubleclick it, done
2020-04-08T14:32:09 < zyp> no back and forth required
2020-04-08T14:32:42 < BrainDamage> zyp: you need to generate a CA and sign clients, wireguard security model is like ssh, where you just ship the key(s)
2020-04-08T14:33:13 < BrainDamage> while you've done the automation for CA signing, you've done the effort that ... everyone else has to do it
2020-04-08T14:33:41 < BrainDamage> and the complexity to do the infra thing is considered unnecessary for most
2020-04-08T14:37:51 < srk> zyp: see, you need a webservice or a tool to manage certs :)
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2020-04-08T15:37:23 < tcth> my vector math is off somewhere and I can´t find it q__q
2020-04-08T15:49:57 < Steffanx> You need some imagination for the complex mathing.
2020-04-08T15:58:05 -!- fenugrec [~fenugrec@97.107.220.18] has joined ##stm32
2020-04-08T16:02:35 < Cracki> present your solution
2020-04-08T16:02:38 < Cracki> (to the class)
2020-04-08T16:02:43 < Cracki> also https://www.reddit.com/r/AIDungeon/
2020-04-08T16:04:41 < mawk> trash container usage increased since corona in the netherlands Steffanx 
2020-04-08T16:05:04 < mawk> especially the colored glass container usage increased 3 fold
2020-04-08T16:05:13 < Steffanx> heh
2020-04-08T16:05:14 < mawk> I guess colored glass container takes in beer bottle ?
2020-04-08T16:05:18 < mawk> people are drinking more
2020-04-08T16:05:19 < Cracki> >colored
2020-04-08T16:05:22 < mawk> lol
2020-04-08T16:05:24 < Cracki> it's trash container of color
2020-04-08T16:05:26 < mawk> that's how it's called in my database
2020-04-08T16:05:38 < Cracki> we don't call them coloreds since the 50s
2020-04-08T16:05:44 < mawk> lol
2020-04-08T16:06:07 < Steffanx> I dont bring my glass to such container. I just put it all in a box, drop it at the front door and someone will collect it.
2020-04-08T16:06:16 < Steffanx> im not racist towards glass
2020-04-08T16:07:42 < Cracki> what are people buying that needs colored glass? all the "canned" foods come in clear glass. only colored class use I know is spirits and medicine
2020-04-08T16:08:02 < Cracki> and oils but people don't chug that usually
2020-04-08T16:08:23 < Steffanx> Wine, beer...
2020-04-08T16:08:39 < Steffanx> not that this message will ever reach Cracki :P
2020-04-08T16:09:10 < Steffanx> You pay per kg for your trash mawk?
2020-04-08T16:09:14 < mawk> he didn't ignore you
2020-04-08T16:09:27 < mawk> you just can't highlight him or something
2020-04-08T16:09:29 < mawk> maybe
2020-04-08T16:09:33 < mawk> I don't know Steffanx 
2020-04-08T16:09:38 < mawk> trash is open here
2020-04-08T16:09:41 < mawk> I don't need the avalex card
2020-04-08T16:09:52 < Steffanx> ah
2020-04-08T16:11:03 < englishman> recycling has been stopped here
2020-04-08T16:11:09 < englishman> so breweries are running out of bottles
2020-04-08T16:11:27 < englishman> how are all these people going to pay their rent if they can't return their beer cans?
2020-04-08T16:13:17 < aandrew> interesting. here they want all garbage bags tied off/closed, but recycling is still good
2020-04-08T16:17:50 < mawk> I have stats for around 4000 containers in NL
2020-04-08T16:20:51 -!- Laurenceb [~laurence@223.141.208.46.dyn.plus.net] has joined ##stm32
2020-04-08T16:21:34 < zyp> srk, nah, it's mostly managing users :)
2020-04-08T16:24:27 < zyp> I've left it running hands off for some years, apparently it's got 982 registered users at the moment
2020-04-08T16:25:49 < Steffanx> What?
2020-04-08T16:26:09 < Steffanx> What fancy service is zyp running?
2020-04-08T16:26:12 < zyp> only two active vpn connections at the moment though
2020-04-08T16:26:20 < zyp> Steffanx, just some vpn shit
2020-04-08T16:26:36 < Steffanx> Just some free vpn for random people?
2020-04-08T16:26:50 < zyp> yeah
2020-04-08T16:27:01 < Steffanx> Hm whokay
2020-04-08T16:27:26 < zyp> it doesn't do routing out, just allows traffic between connected nodes
2020-04-08T16:28:12 -!- kakibase [575d1b57@87-93-27-87.bb.dnainternet.fi] has joined ##stm32
2020-04-08T16:28:32 < Steffanx> Then 982 user sounds like a lot, again
2020-04-08T16:28:36 < Steffanx> Users
2020-04-08T16:29:27 < Steffanx> Cant even upload semi-illegal stuff to mawk's image hosting using your vpn
2020-04-08T16:29:50 < zyp> it's also invite only, can only get an account by being invited by somebody that got one
2020-04-08T16:30:40 < mawk> time to redo it using wg !
2020-04-08T16:31:13 -!- ohsix [ohsix@bc175210.bendcable.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds]
2020-04-08T16:31:52 < Laurenceb> <Steffanx> Cant even upload semi-illegal stuff to mawk's image hostin
2020-04-08T16:31:53 < Laurenceb> kek
2020-04-08T16:31:58 < Laurenceb> inb4 mawk gets v&
2020-04-08T16:32:59 < zyp> mawk, does wg even do L2?
2020-04-08T16:33:45 < mawk> the police raided my server Laurenceb 
2020-04-08T16:33:47 < mawk> no zyp 
2020-04-08T16:34:37 < zyp> the whole point of my shit is to put a bunch of nodes in a common broadcast domain
2020-04-08T16:34:45 < mawk> a
2020-04-08T16:34:52 < mawk> you can probably route multicast over wg
2020-04-08T16:35:03 < zyp> broadcast, not multicast
2020-04-08T16:36:11 < mawk> you can broadcast too probably as well, with some tricks
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2020-04-08T17:00:49 < Laurenceb> mawk: wut for real??
2020-04-08T17:00:58  * Laurenceb worried
2020-04-08T17:01:04 < Laurenceb> are our chats on there?
2020-04-08T17:01:23 < Laurenceb> inb4 everyone gets v&
2020-04-08T17:02:40 < Steffanx> what the hell is v& 
2020-04-08T17:02:45 < Laurenceb> shitposting without a loicense
2020-04-08T17:03:12 < Laurenceb> https://www.reddit.com/r/4chan/comments/30tce6/a_wellknown_int_shitposter_gets_v/
2020-04-08T17:03:44 < Steffanx> ok... 
2020-04-08T17:04:02 < englishman> Steffanx: "vanned," as in a van full of law enforcement officers shows up and takes you away in it along with all your electronics
2020-04-08T17:04:41 < Laurenceb> as in whats about to happen to everyone from ##stm32 thanks to mawk
2020-04-08T17:04:55 < englishman> he got raided years ago
2020-04-08T17:04:55 < Laurenceb>  /nick Chris_Hanson
2020-04-08T17:04:58 < englishman> bro
2020-04-08T17:04:59 < englishman> not like
2020-04-08T17:05:00 < englishman> yesterdayu
2020-04-08T17:05:03 < Laurenceb> what was on the server mawk?
2020-04-08T17:05:07 < Laurenceb> oh ok
2020-04-08T17:05:07 < englishman> kiddie porn
2020-04-08T17:05:11 < englishman> as he runs a kiddie porn server
2020-04-08T17:05:16 < Laurenceb> lol I knew it
2020-04-08T17:05:41 < Laurenceb> in related news I found my mums nambla friend on youtube
2020-04-08T17:05:52 < Laurenceb> he is now a tranny
2020-04-08T17:06:09 < Laurenceb> and trying to get law changed to inject kids with hormones
2020-04-08T17:06:15 < Laurenceb> my sides were orbital
2020-04-08T17:07:19 < Laurenceb> all the memes proven true
2020-04-08T17:08:02 < aandrew> what did mawk do to us?
2020-04-08T17:08:28 < Laurenceb> logged all chats, spiced them up to seem extra ebil, then passed to fbi
2020-04-08T17:08:30 < Laurenceb> probably
2020-04-08T17:08:54 < Laurenceb> attn fbi, all the loicense memes were just ironic
2020-04-08T17:11:14 < sync> do you even have a irc lolcense?
2020-04-08T17:12:06 < Laurenceb> no
2020-04-08T17:12:23 < Laurenceb> unloicesed chatz :-/
2020-04-08T17:12:48 < Laurenceb> I probably even have a book on martial arts
2020-04-08T17:12:55 < Laurenceb> thats 9 months in britbong jail
2020-04-08T17:13:36 < kakibase> 10years for thought crimes
2020-04-08T17:14:04 < Laurenceb>  "material that could be useful for terrorism"
2020-04-08T17:16:09 < Laurenceb> sheet
2020-04-08T17:16:15 < Laurenceb> 936 dead in bongland
2020-04-08T17:16:34 < Laurenceb> >dead without a loicense
2020-04-08T17:17:24 < Cracki> knifed to death
2020-04-08T17:19:56 < PaulFertser> mawk: hey :) an OpenWrt user asks how to make windows firewall accept incoming packets from wireguard.exe. Somehow it ends up being in "public" firewall zone from windows point of view.
2020-04-08T17:20:00 < Laurenceb> rate of increase is slowing a bit
2020-04-08T17:20:11 < Laurenceb> now its 15%/day, earlier it was 25%/day
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2020-04-08T17:24:34 < kakibase> 15% of population
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2020-04-08T17:32:14 < PaulFertser> mawk: 17:31 < landhome> I have a work around via powershell (Set-NetConnectionProfile -Name "mytunnel" -NetworkCategory Private)
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2020-04-08T17:33:26 < PaulFertser> Probably dongs the windows pro knows? How to assign firewall zone to an interface that appears dynamically? (in this case created by wireguard.exe)
2020-04-08T17:34:59 < dongs> ... windows pros dont use firewall lmao
2020-04-08T17:36:20 < PaulFertser> dongs: why not? It's like the microsoft-approved way to do firewalling, no? Or are you using a third-party firewall?
2020-04-08T17:36:30 < dongs> i have nothing to firewall
2020-04-08T17:36:34 < dongs> so i just dont use it at all
2020-04-08T17:36:44 < dongs> its annoying and useless feature
2020-04-08T17:37:07 < emeb> using a firewall is like an admission that you're an incompetent network user.
2020-04-08T17:37:22 < emeb> can't deal with whatever comes!
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2020-04-08T17:37:29 < zyp> haha
2020-04-08T17:38:13 < PaulFertser> dongs: defense in depth, multi-layered security is a foreign concept to you, I see :)
2020-04-08T17:38:18 < emeb> real men put naked systems on the WAN side of their router!
2020-04-08T17:38:39 < englishman> the ipv6 way
2020-04-08T17:39:07 < PaulFertser> emeb: and it's often the case with laptops because you're literally connecting it to different fully untrusted networks all the time.
2020-04-08T17:39:51 < emeb> PaulFertser: yep. Or phones connecting to random WiFi while out & about
2020-04-08T17:40:52 < PaulFertser> englishman: consumer routers usually have uPnP-PMP enabled by default, so IPv4 NAT is not a problem for malware. And of course they also can do something like STUN etc. NAT should never be considered as security boundary, it's just a side-effect that it's sometimes makes certain attacks harder.
2020-04-08T17:40:54 < emeb> not that anyone is out & about these days. :P
2020-04-08T17:41:24 < dongs> what could you possibly do to my laptop while im connected to a random iirport wifi
2020-04-08T17:41:27 < dongs> fucking nothing
2020-04-08T17:41:46 < dongs> i just dont see the purpose for a firewall other than slowing shit down and showing popups i dont care about
2020-04-08T17:42:34 < PaulFertser> dongs: I just mentioned the keywords you're missing in your rationale...
2020-04-08T17:49:39 < emeb> whoo-hoo: new digital isolator and interface update email from Analog Devices. My day is now complete.
2020-04-08T17:49:56 < tcth> are you pregnant?
2020-04-08T17:50:31 < emeb> unlikely
2020-04-08T17:51:04 < PaulFertser> My "gon fu ceremony" involves authentic soviet https://www.amazon.com/Russian-Traditional-Granyoniy-Paneled-Podstakannik/dp/B00HXKL6SU :)
2020-04-08T17:52:37 < PaulFertser> Have you tried brewing it that way BrainDamage ?
2020-04-08T17:52:55 < kakibase> oh
2020-04-08T17:53:10 < kakibase> that is soviet standard glassware
2020-04-08T17:53:34 < kakibase> I think I have drank from such
2020-04-08T17:53:34 < emeb> So here's a weird thing: rearranging the linker script on my H743 project yesterday to make some room in on-chip SRAM. Tried moving the STemwin allocation into the RAM_D3 area and it just. won't. work.
2020-04-08T17:54:09 < emeb> I can put it in RAM_D1 or RAM_D2 and it's fine, but if it's in RAM_D3 then creating a memdev fails.
2020-04-08T17:56:22 < PaulFertser> emeb: please share once you figure it out
2020-04-08T17:57:25 < emeb> PaulFertser: probably not going to pursue it - I've shuffled things around a bit so I can keep it int RAM_D2.
2020-04-08T17:58:04 < emeb> kinda hard to figure out why it fails since the code that borks is part of the STemwin library and thus not really visible to me.
2020-04-08T17:58:22 < PaulFertser> emeb: are you implying that the library is closed source?
2020-04-08T17:58:50 < emeb> PaulFertser: Yes - it's the GUI middleware that ST distributes. It's from Segger.
2020-04-08T17:59:02 < PaulFertser> Oh fuck, dongs should love that.
2020-04-08T17:59:05 < emeb> pre-compiled and distributed as a binary blob.
2020-04-08T18:01:27 < PaulFertser> I just can't understand how some people can be "ok" with companies making their lives harder on purpose, just because they can. Hard to tolerate...
2020-04-08T18:02:53 < emeb> Well, if you go direct to Segger they give you the source but it costs like $20k to buy it. ST precompiles it with hooks to keep it on STM32 and gives it away.
2020-04-08T18:03:11 < dongs> PaulFertser: waht keywords
2020-04-08T18:04:14 < PaulFertser> dongs: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Defence_in_depth
2020-04-08T18:06:52 < dongs> i asked a simple fucking question
2020-04-08T18:07:03 < Laurenceb> murican police: ur illegally in a covid-19 restricted area, for ur own good I'm gunna shoot you sir
2020-04-08T18:07:04 < dongs> what is there that a random HaCkEr can do to my laptop on airport wifi
2020-04-08T18:07:07 < dongs> the answer is: nothing
2020-04-08T18:07:22 < srk> haha, so sure
2020-04-08T18:07:23 < dongs> and i dont need some fucking annoying firewall popup to tell me this
2020-04-08T18:07:53 < srk> one day someone will deauth you and steal all your data to thru some wifi fw backdoor
2020-04-08T18:08:01 < dongs> ??????????
2020-04-08T18:08:13 < dongs> do you realize how retarded taht sounds
2020-04-08T18:08:37 < srk> no.
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2020-04-08T18:11:17 < mawk> PaulFertser: yeah he did the right thing I guess
2020-04-08T18:12:23 < PaulFertser> mawk: but it's not permanent :(
2020-04-08T18:13:37 < mawk> ah
2020-04-08T18:13:40 < mawk> that's odd
2020-04-08T18:13:51 < mawk> never had that issue on windows
2020-04-08T18:14:04 < mawk> what does he mean from wireguard.exe ?
2020-04-08T18:14:18 < mawk> wireguard uses a tun device on windows, it's as if packets come from the kernel
2020-04-08T18:14:48 < PaulFertser> mawk: but does that device appear and disappear dynamically?
2020-04-08T18:15:01 < mawk> I guess yeah, but windows ought to remember it right
2020-04-08T18:15:14 < mawk> or maybe not ? what happens with USB ethernet adapters for instance
2020-04-08T18:15:16 < PaulFertser> mawk: yeah, attaching wireguard.exe to any zone doesn't make sense with a tun device, obviously :)
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2020-04-08T18:32:17  * karlp was setting up wg this morning. sitting with a cold bum in the harbour
2020-04-08T18:33:17 < karlp> so, new g431 nucleo comes with the f7 stlink v3 on it, and a compact 2x5 1.27mm debug header, not a normal 6 pin stlink.  (and no tthe 14pin on their stlink v3 mini either)
2020-04-08T18:33:34 < karlp> l5 however still has the stlinkv2, but has usb-c for the device port :)
2020-04-08T18:36:30 < Steffanx> But I still have more micro usb cables than USB c ones
2020-04-08T18:37:21 < PaulFertser> emeb: btw, do you know ST did another super-nasty thing to betray its users recently? Fucked up stlinkv3 so that they do not work with non-ST chips. And probably on purpose too.
2020-04-08T18:37:39 < srk> huh
2020-04-08T18:37:53 < emeb> PaulFertser: OK, that's unpleasant.
2020-04-08T18:38:01 < srk> I wonder if you can just flash it with BMP via dfu 
2020-04-08T18:38:09 < PaulFertser> srk: no, different MCU
2020-04-08T18:38:13 < Steffanx> They're probably stalling the jlink fw port to it as well
2020-04-08T18:38:27 < karlp> stlinkv3 on the g431 nucleo is an f731 part :)
2020-04-08T18:38:30 < emeb> PaulFertser: Somewhat understandable though - I bet they sell them at a loss and want to keep them focused on their own products.
2020-04-08T18:38:34 < Steffanx> I recall segger mentioned a possible fw for it ages ago
2020-04-08T18:38:35 < karlp> soryr, f723
2020-04-08T18:38:37 < srk> PaulFertser: BMP supports more targets
2020-04-08T18:38:56 < srk> (should support everything that cm3 does with some effort)
2020-04-08T18:39:05 < karlp> emeb: who was even actually _asking_ for high speed stlinks?
2020-04-08T18:39:10 < karlp> or stlinks with i2c/spi bridges?
2020-04-08T18:39:24 < emeb> karlp: *shrug*
2020-04-08T18:39:37 < srk> v3 one does i2c/spi bridges as well?
2020-04-08T18:39:40 < PaulFertser> emeb: not understandable, no. It doesn't require additional effort to _not_ cripple things. But they have apparently spent time and money to fuck their users.
2020-04-08T18:40:08 < emeb> PaulFertser: But IIRC, even older ST-Link V2 had some quirks that made them not work well with other processors.
2020-04-08T18:40:40 < emeb> PaulFertser: like using a 16-bit value for some stuff that they knew would only need to be 16-bit in STM32 arch.
2020-04-08T18:40:42 < PaulFertser> emeb: it was working fine with most MCUs, and with latest firmware they added DAP-level access so it became fully usable even for kinetis mass erase etc.
2020-04-08T18:41:16 < PaulFertser> emeb: older firmware didn't support 16-bit read/writes, yes. Mostly irrelevant in real life.
2020-04-08T18:41:45 < emeb> PaulFertser: hmm... well, does Hanlon's Razor apply here?
2020-04-08T18:42:21 < PaulFertser> emeb: a guy working for ST tried asking internally several times whether it was intentional or not. Got reply that was ambigous. So that kinda shifts the odds, right?
2020-04-08T18:43:12 < PaulFertser> Thank you French people for another weirdly spelled word where I'm making mistakes: ambiguous ;)
2020-04-08T18:43:20 < PaulFertser> spelt
2020-04-08T18:43:35 < emeb> PaulFertser: could be. One of my clients used to work @ MCHP - he had some products that used MCHP parts that have some strange issues. He asked internally if that issue was known and got a stern brush-off. 
2020-04-08T18:44:23 < emeb> In poker that's called a "tell". 
2020-04-08T18:44:45 < srk> time to start poking risc-v again
2020-04-08T18:46:03 < PaulFertser> Oh, btw, can someone with stlink-v3 get an LA trace of it attaching with OpenOCD to a non-ST part?
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2020-04-08T18:47:21 < sync> if the stlink wasn't so slow... ):
2020-04-08T18:48:22 < mawk> because they changed the HLA protocol PaulFertser ? the old code doesn't work ?
2020-04-08T18:48:48 < PaulFertser> mawk: the protocol is OK but somehow it just returns an error at a certain point when non-ST part is used.
2020-04-08T18:48:53 < mawk> lol
2020-04-08T18:48:55 < karlp> srk: yeah, even has a documented daughterboard expansion system
2020-04-08T18:49:01 < srk> karlp: oh shit :D
2020-04-08T18:49:06 < mawk> crooked ST
2020-04-08T18:49:21 < Laurenceb> risc-v has piss poor peripherals last time I checked
2020-04-08T18:49:36 < srk> karlp: like I welcome the addition of UART bridges so I don't need to patch f4s manually but this is useless :)
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2020-04-08T18:49:50 < englishman> Laurenceb, doesnt that fully depend on who is integrating it
2020-04-08T18:49:52 < srk> Laurenceb: ofc it does, takes time to build such IP
2020-04-08T18:50:03 < srk> pretty much
2020-04-08T18:50:12 < englishman> ie. ti's uart vs st's
2020-04-08T18:50:41 < Laurenceb> yeah but it runs the risk of being the next xmos
2020-04-08T18:50:54 < karlp> it's already more useful than xmos
2020-04-08T18:50:55 < srk> not with open toolchains
2020-04-08T18:51:18 < srk> you can proly grab stuff from opencores and glue it to picorv
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2020-04-08T19:06:17 < PaulFertser> https://github.com/AmboVent/AmboVent/blob/master/.Software/Arduino%20Code/ventilation_machine/ventilation_machine.ino
2020-04-08T19:06:18 < zyp> if you stuff risc-v in a fpga, you can have all the peripherals you want (and can fit)
2020-04-08T19:07:24 < zyp> but yeah
2020-04-08T19:07:39 < zyp> the risc-v asics I've seen are kinda short on useful peripherals
2020-04-08T19:07:45 < srk> PaulFertser: /o\
2020-04-08T19:07:49 < specing> and also short on performance
2020-04-08T19:07:53 < specing> short on everything
2020-04-08T19:08:00 < jpa-> byte FD,FU,AD,AU,FDFB,FUFB,ADFB,AUFB,SW2,SW2FB,TSTFB,RST   yeah, this looks like the code i want to breathe for me
2020-04-08T19:08:11 < zyp> specing, are they?
2020-04-08T19:08:17 < PaulFertser> If you're a pig arduino code is good enough for you
2020-04-08T19:08:54 < PaulFertser> (this machine was tested on pigs, literally)
2020-04-08T19:09:20 < srk> PaulFertser: funny how people think they can build medical grade equipment with arduino :)
2020-04-08T19:09:48 < aandrew> yeah there is an awful lot of redneck engineering going on
2020-04-08T19:10:04 < srk> lol, redneck engineering :D
2020-04-08T19:10:39 < PaulFertser> srk: it's also funny how they get something potentially useful workings while pro's are discussing "dependent types" and other important language features.
2020-04-08T19:10:54 < srk> PaulFertser: how did you know..
2020-04-08T19:11:01 < aandrew> I love the mechanical approaches that have been taken,s ome are really quite novel
2020-04-08T19:11:11 < aandrew> and nothing wrong with using an arduino to get a prototype going
2020-04-08T19:11:13 < srk> PaulFertser: more like researches not pros :)
2020-04-08T19:11:28 < aandrew> but zero (or very few) safeties, both in hardware design and firmware design
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2020-04-08T19:14:48 < PaulFertser> aandrew: are you looking at anything specific mechanics-wise there?
2020-04-08T19:15:33 < PaulFertser> So snowblower parts
2020-04-08T19:22:11 < srk> PaulFertser: Verified Functional Programming in Agda has some nice motivation why dependent types matter, author even argues it will become a standard industrial practice at some point (which I doubt a bit :))
2020-04-08T19:23:43 < PaulFertser> srk: :)
2020-04-08T19:28:52 < specing> 50 years from now everyone will still be using C
2020-04-08T19:29:09 < srk> and UNIX!
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2020-04-08T19:35:09 < emeb> this is not wrong
2020-04-08T19:36:27 < srk> just sub-optimal
2020-04-08T19:36:33 < tcth> ada
2020-04-08T19:37:50 -!- machinehum [~machinehu@2601:600:837f:9080:de:3b73:ecdc:6d42] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds]
2020-04-08T19:40:47 < Steffanx> lies
2020-04-08T19:45:49 < PaulFertser> btw, my father was developing vent firmware in C for 8051 in the early 2000s. IIRC mechanically it was resembling an accordion with stepper motor, with reed switches at the ends (and then probably real endstops cutting power to the motor; that I'm not sure about). The movement profile was non-trivial and there were many tricks.
2020-04-08T19:47:55 < Ultrasauce> i think they often use wimpy enough steppers that it can just run over the end to establish a zero
2020-04-08T19:47:56 < PaulFertser> I remember there was some fancy DOS software and "hardware emulator" to be plugged in the panel replacing the MCU. Can't say I'm missing those days, having OCD in modern MCUs really rocks.
2020-04-08T19:48:19 < srk> heh, cool
2020-04-08T19:48:33 < srk> Ultrasauce: well if you have modern drivers you can measure current and do homing that way
2020-04-08T19:48:48 < Ultrasauce> that sounds like a solution that costs more than 20 cents
2020-04-08T19:49:49 < PaulFertser> I think they were using a custom stepper motor, I remember someone from their team boasting about it.
2020-04-08T19:50:35 < PaulFertser> Unfortunately, the only time I've been there was when I had serious hangover.
2020-04-08T19:54:08 < PaulFertser> Then my father switched to sysadmining small businesses and wasn't engineering anything since that :(
2020-04-08T20:00:09 < Steffanx> Awh. 
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2020-04-08T21:07:23 < qyx> #corona32 update, 60 people of those 150 returning from Tirol were positive
2020-04-08T21:07:32 < qyx> unbelievable
2020-04-08T21:07:49 < jadew> what's Tirol?
2020-04-08T21:07:55 < jadew> sounds like cough medicine
2020-04-08T21:08:14 < qyx> a place in austria
2020-04-08T21:08:17 < qyx> county
2020-04-08T21:10:14 -!- c10ud^ [~c10ud@emesene/dictator/c10ud] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds]
2020-04-08T21:11:50 < jadew> why did they go there?
2020-04-08T21:11:53 < jadew> is that a red zone?
2020-04-08T21:23:28 < Steffanx> its where anton is from
2020-04-08T21:24:04 < mawk> tyrol
2020-04-08T21:24:16 < mawk> where yodel is from
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2020-04-08T21:26:47 < Steffanx> red and alarm much: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dvyp9mjH-24 (repost)
2020-04-08T21:28:41 < jadew> there's a partial nipple in that video
2020-04-08T21:28:52 < Steffanx> ok
2020-04-08T21:28:54 < Steffanx> lol
2020-04-08T21:36:54 < boddax> anatem of struffelland
2020-04-08T21:38:58 < PaulFertser> Was that a warning or ad?
2020-04-08T21:40:07 < boddax> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CYB4abQfmus this the top
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2020-04-08T21:45:26 < qyx> jadew: they were working there
2020-04-08T21:47:08 < aandrew> PaulFertser: well I saw a guy using a hacked-off c-clamp connected to a reversible drill to squeeze an ambu bag
2020-04-08T21:48:34 < sync> no
2020-04-08T21:48:37 < sync> pls
2020-04-08T21:48:39 < sync> no
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2020-04-08T21:58:12 < bitmask> god damn, $550 + tax to replace my screen
2020-04-08T21:58:20 < bitmask> at least i finally ordered it after a month with no screen
2020-04-08T21:58:39 < zyp> screen for what?
2020-04-08T21:58:43 < bitmask> macbook pro
2020-04-08T21:58:47 < bitmask> smashed it
2020-04-08T21:58:51 < zyp> yeah, I remember
2020-04-08T21:58:59 < zyp> just not what kind of laptop itwas
2020-04-08T21:59:03 < bitmask> ahh
2020-04-08T21:59:06 < zyp> what model MBP?
2020-04-08T21:59:06 < PaulFertser> aandrew: that's unorthodox indeed :)
2020-04-08T21:59:13 < bitmask> 2015 15" retina
2020-04-08T21:59:26 < zyp> uh
2020-04-08T21:59:41 < zyp> couldn't you just buy a whole 2015 MBP for $550?
2020-04-08T21:59:50 < bitmask> I coulda gotten cheaper but I didn't want to order from china
2020-04-08T22:00:08 < bitmask> dunno, doubt it, but I dont need anything else
2020-04-08T22:00:34 < bitmask> this is supposedly a new screen assembly
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2020-04-08T22:02:04 < Steffanx> you got your free money already
2020-04-08T22:02:06 < Steffanx> ?
2020-04-08T22:02:15 < bitmask> no not yet
2020-04-08T22:02:19 < zyp> hmm
2020-04-08T22:02:41 < zyp> shit's expensive
2020-04-08T22:02:44 < bitmask> it was a birthday gift from my gf, shes paying 350, I owe her 200
2020-04-08T22:03:36 < zyp> used 2015 MBPs are still pretty expensive
2020-04-08T22:04:01 < bitmask> i see some listed as 2015 but its definitely not, I think they are scamming by referring the OS version
2020-04-08T22:04:08 < zyp> haha
2020-04-08T22:04:34 < zyp> found a norwegian store selling just the display for 3800 NOK, including VAT
2020-04-08T22:04:43 < zyp> cheaper than yours, but probably used
2020-04-08T22:04:56 < zyp> not that I'd bother buying a brand new panel for a five year old laptop
2020-04-08T22:05:05 < Steffanx> I booted my macbook pro 2010 15" a while back. 1440 x 900 is fucking terrible :D
2020-04-08T22:05:25 < bitmask> my last one was a 2012 17"
2020-04-08T22:05:32 < bitmask> or 2011
2020-04-08T22:05:35 < zyp> I've got my 2011 MBP sitting next to me, should probably see if I can sell it or something
2020-04-08T22:06:11 < bitmask> my graphics card unsoldered itself.  I reflowed it and it worked but I sold it anyway and got this one
2020-04-08T22:06:53 < Steffanx> Didnt they do a extended warranty on that one?
2020-04-08T22:07:03 < Steffanx> or free repair , dont remember te details
2020-04-08T22:07:11 < bitmask> they wouldn't do it because I had liquid damage which is bullshit
2020-04-08T22:07:20 < Steffanx> hah
2020-04-08T22:07:27 < Steffanx> ofcourse.
2020-04-08T22:07:35 < bitmask> there was some dried up drink gunk but it was nowhere near the graphics card and didn't affect anything
2020-04-08T22:09:07 < bitmask> oh shit, theres a battery replacement for mine, I havent had any problems and didnt want to go days without my laptop but now would be a good time to do it, cause once I open it myself they wont touch it
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2020-04-08T22:10:33 < Steffanx> I wouldnt say no to a free battery replacement after 5 years :P
2020-04-08T22:10:52 < bitmask> yea
2020-04-08T22:11:10 < Steffanx> until they see the broken screen and say: naaah not gonna happen
2020-04-08T22:11:50 < bitmask> yea im gonna verify that first
2020-04-08T22:12:04 < Steffanx> How would they see you opened it up?
2020-04-08T22:12:09 < bitmask> even though they will say anything to get you in the store
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2020-04-08T22:12:19 < bitmask> dunno
2020-04-08T22:12:56 < Steffanx> i cannot imagine that being an issue
2020-04-08T22:13:08 < zyp> first thing I did after bringing the 2011 MBP home was opening it up and replacing the hard drive with an SSD
2020-04-08T22:13:17 < Steffanx> Yeah, i added RAM iirc
2020-04-08T22:13:22 < bitmask> i got the ssd with my 2011, expensive as hell and slow too
2020-04-08T22:13:34 < Steffanx> And replaced the dvd/cd drive with an SDD as well alter on
2020-04-08T22:13:35 < Steffanx> later on
2020-04-08T22:14:17 < zyp> I swapped the HDD for a SSD and put the original HDD in the DVD spot
2020-04-08T22:14:35 < bitmask> yea ive heard of people doin that, I was still using dvds though
2020-04-08T22:14:47 < Steffanx> i havent had a DVD/CD drive for at least 5 years in any of my laptops/pcs.
2020-04-08T22:15:03 < zyp> 8 for me
2020-04-08T22:15:07 < Steffanx> :)
2020-04-08T22:15:07 < bitmask> yea they dont even come in the macbooks anymore
2020-04-08T22:15:15 < bitmask> so 5 years for me
2020-04-08T22:15:43 < Steffanx> oh its more than 5 indeed. my macbook didnt have one either. so make that 7-8 years
2020-04-08T22:16:13 < zyp> my desktop case actually got a spot for a slot-in slim dvd drive, so I were planning to put the one from the MBP there
2020-04-08T22:16:38 < bitmask> is that a common feature? mine has space for one too
2020-04-08T22:16:43 < zyp> so I ordered the cable for that, but never bothered installing it after it arrived
2020-04-08T22:16:52 < zyp> dunno, maybe we have the same case?
2020-04-08T22:16:56 < zyp> FT11 or something
2020-04-08T22:17:02 < bitmask> mines evga
2020-04-08T22:17:38 < zyp> sorry, FT03
2020-04-08T22:17:42 < zyp> https://www.silverstonetek.com/product.php?pid=291
2020-04-08T22:17:56 < bitmask> https://www.amazon.com/EVGA-Hadron-Mini-ITX-Chassis-110-MW-1002-K1/dp/B00IKDFMN4
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2020-04-08T22:44:42 < kakimir> thats like moneys
2020-04-08T22:44:47 < kakimir> very moneys
2020-04-08T22:45:00 < kakimir> I think steffrecommend case was cheaper
2020-04-08T22:48:15 < Steffanx> what did i recommend again?
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2020-04-08T22:50:11 < Steffanx> that 804 thingy or osmething?
2020-04-08T22:51:12 < Steffanx> hows your nas doing kakimir?
2020-04-08T22:51:19 < kakimir> unutilized
2020-04-08T22:51:34 < kakimir> I randomly move files with samba across machines with it
2020-04-08T22:54:19 < Steffanx> yay
2020-04-08T22:54:39 < Steffanx> all this time spend on getting that lsi card to work
2020-04-08T23:01:16 < kakimir> no
2020-04-08T23:01:21 < kakimir> I removed it ages ago
2020-04-08T23:01:32 < kakimir> utilized all mobo satas
2020-04-08T23:01:48 < kakimir> and booting from pci-e sata controller board
2020-04-08T23:02:19 < kakimir> I should get propper computer to that box
2020-04-08T23:02:38 < kakimir> those parts were kinda thing that I would not use as desktop anymore
2020-04-08T23:02:55 < kakimir> because I have 2013 year model desktop computer now
2020-04-08T23:04:28 < Steffanx> i didnt say you got it working :P
2020-04-08T23:04:41 < kakimir> I didn't
2020-04-08T23:05:45 < kakimir> there was high likellyhood that pci-e was not properly handled by mobo so I didn't see any reason to continue with LSI + current hw
2020-04-08T23:08:44 < Steffanx> but the card is old as shit. should work with old hw
2020-04-08T23:09:48 < kakimir> yes
2020-04-08T23:09:54 < kakimir> proper server mobo
2020-04-08T23:10:09 < kakimir> or modern mobo that doesn't do all weird stuff with pci-e
2020-04-08T23:10:23 < boddax> C64 quadcore
2020-04-08T23:10:36 < aandrew> lol
2020-04-08T23:11:06 < Steffanx> yeah why not
2020-04-08T23:11:37 < kakimir> I need hw from era when north bridge was removed
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2020-04-08T23:12:38 < boddax> well i fixed this sheet scope it boot xp
2020-04-08T23:14:10 < boddax> bcmcom mobo ..never heard before
2020-04-08T23:17:59 < boddax> https://i.ibb.co/3pfpffg/20200408-221440.jpg
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2020-04-08T23:24:38 < kakimir> show me some SFP adapters
2020-04-08T23:24:45 < kakimir> that are fast but inexpensive
2020-04-08T23:24:49 < kakimir> 1G is not fast
2020-04-08T23:24:51 -!- con3 [~con3@165.255.110.4] has joined ##stm32
2020-04-08T23:25:17 < kakimir> let's say anything above 1G is fast-ish
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2020-04-08T23:26:58 < qyx> did you check ubnt/mikrotik/tplink shit?
2020-04-08T23:27:20 < Thorn> what kind of interface can you support?
2020-04-08T23:35:00 -!- con3 [~con3@165.255.110.4] has quit [Quit: Leaving]
2020-04-08T23:35:03 < kakimir> idk
2020-04-08T23:35:05 < kakimir> SFP
2020-04-08T23:35:15 < kakimir> I have singlemode fibers
2020-04-08T23:35:17 < kakimir> as pairs
2020-04-08T23:35:47 < kakimir> and I rather use WDM than separate TX and RX
2020-04-08T23:36:15 < kakimir> I can aggregate or use another fiber for special purposes
2020-04-08T23:36:26 < Thorn> I mean interface to your chip
2020-04-08T23:36:35 < Thorn> what kind of transceivers does it have
2020-04-08T23:37:05 < kakimir> I have no SFP devices
2020-04-08T23:37:13 < kakimir> but I need like a switch
2020-04-08T23:37:21 < kakimir> and a router
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2020-04-08T23:46:09 < kakibase> and connect them using SFP
2020-04-08T23:46:30 < kakibase> or SFP+ but I expect dramatic increase in price
2020-04-08T23:58:50 < qyx> are you kakinull?
2020-04-08T23:59:03 < qyx> lmgtfy?
2020-04-08T23:59:52 < qyx> https://www.i4wifi.cz/cs/210733-ubnt-ufiber-sm-10gbit-2ks
--- Day changed Thu Apr 09 2020
2020-04-09T00:00:02 < qyx> pair for 80e
2020-04-09T00:00:07 < qyx> 10gbps single-mode wdm
2020-04-09T00:00:14 < qyx> no wdm, sorry
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2020-04-09T00:03:10 < mawk> I did 100% excel today Steffanx 
2020-04-09T00:03:15 < mawk> finish me
2020-04-09T00:03:28 < Steffanx> Lol. VBA as well?
2020-04-09T00:03:55 < mawk> not yet
2020-04-09T00:03:59 < mawk> but I did VBA previously
2020-04-09T00:04:08 < Steffanx> Awesome
2020-04-09T00:04:08 < mawk> I made an excel sheet that our mechanics use to calibrate the sensors
2020-04-09T00:04:14 < mawk> they need to climb up silos and take laser measures
2020-04-09T00:04:28 < mawk> then they enter it into my specially crafted excel sheet with lots of VBA
2020-04-09T00:04:41 < mawk> it has a JSON parser in it that my boss wrote, he's an excel grand master
2020-04-09T00:04:59 < Steffanx> Lol excel json parser.
2020-04-09T00:05:54 < mawk> https://serveur.io/ARS.png
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2020-04-09T00:08:14 < mawk> you're looking at 6 hours
2020-04-09T00:10:14 < mawk> mainly because the database is a few hundred terabytes and querying it takes a bit of time to put it lightly
2020-04-09T00:10:18 < mawk> oh and also no indexes
2020-04-09T00:13:57 < mawk> it's only 100TiB because we keep history to only 6 months I think
2020-04-09T00:15:07 < Steffanx> Why is your excel in french :o
2020-04-09T00:15:17 < Steffanx> That means even the formulas are in french
2020-04-09T00:15:22 < mawk> lol
2020-04-09T00:15:24 < mawk> yes indeed
2020-04-09T00:15:29 < mawk> well it's libreoffice
2020-04-09T00:15:38 < mawk> but it's totally compatible with excel
2020-04-09T00:15:45 < mawk> at least for what I do
2020-04-09T00:16:03 < Steffanx> But FRENCH
2020-04-09T00:16:18 < mawk> you don't like french ??
2020-04-09T00:16:43 < Steffanx> Je je parle pas français
2020-04-09T00:16:48 < mawk> mais si
2020-04-09T00:16:53 < mawk> tout le monde parle français
2020-04-09T00:17:08 < Steffanx> I have no issues with french. I just dont speak it. 
2020-04-09T00:17:17 < mawk> yes you do, you just don't know it yet
2020-04-09T00:17:25 < mawk> just substitute word for word, swap around some others
2020-04-09T00:17:28 < mawk> then it's french
2020-04-09T00:17:43 < Steffanx> I just dont understand why anyone would a tool like that in non-englisg
2020-04-09T00:17:48 < Steffanx> h
2020-04-09T00:17:57 < mawk> well it's doesn't really matter
2020-04-09T00:18:00 < mawk> I know the translation
2020-04-09T00:18:06 < Steffanx> Yes. Its awful
2020-04-09T00:18:23 < mawk> when I read french well I hear french in my head, it's my native language, and when I hear english I hear english as well, and I think in english
2020-04-09T00:18:28 < mawk> so one or the other it's the same
2020-04-09T00:18:34 < Steffanx> IF(..) would be ALS(..) in dutch. Just awful
2020-04-09T00:18:41 < mawk> lol
2020-04-09T00:18:49 < mawk> the best is that it's , instead of . as decimal separator
2020-04-09T00:18:54 < Steffanx> Idk what it would be in french
2020-04-09T00:18:55 < mawk> that messed up my data at first
2020-04-09T00:18:58 < mawk> I had to search and replace
2020-04-09T00:19:01 < mawk> SI()
2020-04-09T00:20:17 < Steffanx> You should start coding in french
2020-04-09T00:20:34 < mawk> lol no
2020-04-09T00:20:43 < mawk> at least with excel when you then open with an english excel, the french is gone
2020-04-09T00:20:46 < mawk> so it doesn't bother me
2020-04-09T00:21:10 < mawk> I have a LTE USB stick that I hacked, it's a modified android inside
2020-04-09T00:21:13 < mawk> so I read the source code
2020-04-09T00:21:28 < mawk> it's a card castle of bash scripts commented in chinese
2020-04-09T00:21:40 < Steffanx> Word is the best. It has properties that can only be edited in the language they were created in
2020-04-09T00:21:45 < mawk> lol
2020-04-09T00:21:59 < Steffanx> I recall it was the "title" property
2020-04-09T00:22:31 < Steffanx> Both versions show up in some other doc info window though -_-
2020-04-09T00:22:42 < Steffanx> Gotta love Office
2020-04-09T00:22:52 < mawk> libreoffice is all you need
2020-04-09T00:23:04 < Steffanx> LaTeX right?
2020-04-09T00:23:09 < mawk> no
2020-04-09T00:23:13 < mawk> libreoffice outputs regular excel files
2020-04-09T00:23:15 < mawk> .xlsx
2020-04-09T00:23:17 < mawk> excel doesn't even complain
2020-04-09T00:23:20 < mawk> for latex I use gummi
2020-04-09T00:23:25 < mawk> or my website if it's just maths
2020-04-09T00:23:29 < mawk> https://maths.serveur.io/
2020-04-09T00:24:37 < Steffanx> Je ne parle pas français
2020-04-09T00:24:46 < mawk> juste type in latex lol
2020-04-09T00:24:53 < mawk> then it previews on the right
2020-04-09T00:25:03 < mawk> and click the big blue button which couldn't be anything but a Send button
2020-04-09T00:25:11 < Steffanx> Where is MongoDB use for
2020-04-09T00:26:33 < mawk> https://serveur.io/maths.png
2020-04-09T00:26:39 < mawk> to store the pastes
2020-04-09T00:27:35 < mawk> it's one of my first js pieces
2020-04-09T00:27:39 < mawk> it's surprising it works at all
2020-04-09T00:32:42 < mawk> did you like my formula
2020-04-09T00:35:17 < Steffanx> Totally
2020-04-09T00:38:11 < mawk> Gamma(x)Gamma(1-x) is pi/sin(pi·x)
2020-04-09T00:38:14 < mawk> beautiful formula
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2020-04-09T00:47:51 < BrainDamage> PaulFertser: no, I haven't tried russian style yet
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2020-04-09T01:04:40 < antto> https://i.imgur.com/fOVYSG1.mp4
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2020-04-09T01:10:17 < kakibase> I cannot make my mind if I buy apocalypse gear or not
2020-04-09T01:11:04 < zyp> hmm
2020-04-09T01:11:17 < zyp> why the fuck are sata cables straight through and not crossed?
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2020-04-09T01:14:46 < zyp> it does exist though, as a specialty product: https://cpustuff.com/cables/sata-cables/crossed-wired-sata-cable/
2020-04-09T01:15:03 < zyp> but why the fuck didn't they just specify them that way in the first place?
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2020-04-09T01:17:05 < catphish> are drives and controllers wired differently?
2020-04-09T01:17:44 < zyp> obviously, when the cables are straight through, the pins used to transmit on one end would be used to receive on the other end
2020-04-09T01:18:03 < catphish> so what's the use case for a crossover cable?
2020-04-09T01:18:27 < catphish> a pc with a custom driver/firmware emulating a drive?
2020-04-09T01:19:29 < zyp> the idea is that sata cables are cheap off the shelf cables capable of high speed (multi-gigabit) signals
2020-04-09T01:21:37 < zyp> e.g. between two fpga boards
2020-04-09T01:22:33 < zyp> but if both of those are wired to transmit on pins 2/3 and receive on pins 5/6, a straight through cable obviously wouldn't work
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2020-04-09T01:24:11 < zyp> now, SATA cables was obviously not designed for non-SATA-use, but still
2020-04-09T01:24:34 < zyp> the pinout is an exact mirror; gnd, tx+, tx-, gnd, rx-, rx+, gnd
2020-04-09T01:24:58 < zyp> so all that's required is reversing one plug wrt to the other when assembling the cable, no cost difference
2020-04-09T01:25:31 < zyp> would also have the benefit of not connecting two outputs together if some asshole plugs both ends of a sata cable into a motherboard
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2020-04-09T01:29:24 < catphish> ah i see, sata is probably an ideal generic serial comm line
2020-04-09T01:29:49 < catphish> so that is irritating that they didn't design it that way
2020-04-09T01:29:53 < zyp> exactly
2020-04-09T01:30:01 < mawk> put two connectors on your board
2020-04-09T01:30:05 < mawk> one for TX and one for RX
2020-04-09T01:30:12 < mawk> or have a digital switch
2020-04-09T01:30:27 < mawk> probably the second one is too expensive
2020-04-09T01:30:29 < catphish> weird question? does stm32 support a simple debugging serial output? i don't see an "SWO" line
2020-04-09T01:30:38 < mawk> yes SWO
2020-04-09T01:30:41 < mawk> is supported
2020-04-09T01:30:45 < zyp> SWO doesn't exist on cortex-m0
2020-04-09T01:30:56 < zyp> so f0/l0 won't have it
2020-04-09T01:30:58 < zyp> all the others do
2020-04-09T01:31:04 < catphish> i don't see it in my cubeide for f4
2020-04-09T01:31:17 < mawk> it has a different name probably
2020-04-09T01:31:19 < zyp> SWO is on the same pin as JTDO
2020-04-09T01:31:24 < mawk> it's an alternate function
2020-04-09T01:31:26 < mawk> right
2020-04-09T01:31:37 < zyp> JTDO in JTAG mode, SWO in SWD mode
2020-04-09T01:31:53 < catphish> oh, got it
2020-04-09T01:32:05 < catphish> they call it "trace asynchronous sw"
2020-04-09T01:32:20 < catphish> because that's obvious
2020-04-09T01:32:36 < zyp> hmm, this thing is probably even better than having a custom cross wired SATA cable: https://cpustuff.com/7-pin-male-male-sata-adapter-cross-wired-7male2mx/
2020-04-09T01:32:57 < mawk> not cheap
2020-04-09T01:33:04 < zyp> because that way you won't have two types of sata cables and accidentally pick the wrong one
2020-04-09T01:33:10 < catphish> isn't there a similar comms line that is better wired?
2020-04-09T01:33:19 < mawk> what do you mean better ?
2020-04-09T01:33:21 < mawk> SWO works great
2020-04-09T01:33:24 < catphish> 8p8c + cat6?
2020-04-09T01:33:27 < mawk> ah
2020-04-09T01:33:29 < mawk> nevermind
2020-04-09T01:33:29 < catphish> sorry, i was talking to zyp 
2020-04-09T01:33:32 < mawk> yeah
2020-04-09T01:33:55 < zyp> nah, cat6 doesn't do multi-gigabit, and is also wired straight through anyway
2020-04-09T01:34:33 < catphish> oh yeah
2020-04-09T01:34:39 < catphish> ignore me
2020-04-09T01:34:54 < catphish> with that said, i bet cat6 is no worse than sata over the same distance
2020-04-09T01:34:55 < antto> https://i.imgur.com/XyCoJwn.mp4
2020-04-09T01:35:20 < zyp> catphish, uh, it obviously is
2020-04-09T01:36:01 < zyp> anyway, usb3 connectors/cabling is another obvious option
2020-04-09T01:36:27 < catphish> yeah i wondered about usb, i much prefer sata though, it's pretty
2020-04-09T01:36:30 < zyp> but usb A to A crossover cables are also nonstandard
2020-04-09T01:36:32 < catphish> and less confusing
2020-04-09T01:37:08 < zyp> usb-c is great, and is even designed to run other stuff than usb
2020-04-09T01:38:47 < zyp> but cables are more expensive, and it'd feel wrong to use it without also handling the automatic orientation switching and other negotiation, which adds complexity on the board
2020-04-09T01:41:20 < zyp> hmm
2020-04-09T01:41:24 < zyp> this is also a thing: https://eu.mouser.com/ProductDetail/Design-Gateway/AB02-CROSSOVER?qs=%252BEew9%252B0nqrDmaymAZmkChQ%3D%3D
2020-04-09T01:41:28 < zyp> but fuck the price
2020-04-09T01:41:39 < catphish> next simple question, can i run a stm32 off 14v with a linreg? i assume they exist that can take that viotage
2020-04-09T01:41:42 < zyp> I should just roll my own if I end up needing one
2020-04-09T01:41:43 < catphish> *voltage
2020-04-09T01:41:57 < zyp> can? sure
2020-04-09T01:42:02 < zyp> question is if you want to
2020-04-09T01:42:19 < catphish> well they draw so little current, i don't see much harm
2020-04-09T01:42:23 < zyp> the limitation is generally not voltage, it's power
2020-04-09T01:42:57 < catphish> active regulators always just seem like a needless complication
2020-04-09T01:43:45 < Thorn> catphish: define "they". you're likely powering the whole device, not just one mcu
2020-04-09T01:44:25 < catphish> actually, one of the devices is an ethernet PHY, that's probably more hungry
2020-04-09T01:44:40 < zyp> 3.3/14 gives you about 23% efficiency or so, so if you're okay with the regulator wasting a bit over three times as much power as the rest of the circuit is using, it's fine
2020-04-09T01:44:59 < catphish> Thorn: it's an stm32, ethernet phy, and that's pretty much it at 3v3
2020-04-09T01:45:26 < Thorn> ethernet consumes a lot of current
2020-04-09T01:45:32 < englishman> zyp, just use two sata cables
2020-04-09T01:45:50 < catphish> Thorn: yeah i just realised that, maybe i should do something better
2020-04-09T01:46:14 < zyp> catphish, you'll probably use around a watt or so
2020-04-09T01:46:28 < zyp> mcu+phy combined
2020-04-09T01:46:35 < catphish> 135mW for the MHY
2020-04-09T01:46:44 < zyp> mW or mA?
2020-04-09T01:46:56 < catphish> * 155mW at 100Mbps
2020-04-09T01:46:58 < zyp> and is that factoring in any CT biasing current?
2020-04-09T01:47:24 < catphish> https://i.imgur.com/y5FLigQ.png
2020-04-09T01:47:26 < zyp> is this the ksz? if so it doesn't do CT biasing
2020-04-09T01:47:40 < catphish> yes ksz
2020-04-09T01:47:52 < zyp> hmm, that's lower than I remember
2020-04-09T01:48:07 < zyp> but I've worked with other ethernet chips since that :)
2020-04-09T01:48:23 < catphish> 50mA at 3v3, not a huge amount, but that's nearly half a watt wasted in the linreg
2020-04-09T01:48:59 < catphish> which is suddenly non trivial
2020-04-09T01:49:29 < Thorn> I remember current jumping up by 100mA when I enabled refclk (generated by MCO) in a project with lan8720a
2020-04-09T01:49:42 < catphish> i also have to power an rfid reader which i think is 5v
2020-04-09T01:49:50 < Thorn> that's without any traffic or anything
2020-04-09T01:50:28 < Thorn> plus 50MHz RMII signals
2020-04-09T01:51:01 < zyp> LAN9512 (which is a whole MAC, not just PHY) is listed with a typical draw of 231 mA at 100 Mb/s
2020-04-09T01:51:11 < Thorn> plus ethernet MAC (see datasheet for your stm32)
2020-04-09T01:51:14 < zyp> plus another 42 mA to the CT
2020-04-09T01:51:43 < zyp> 188 mA at 10 Mb/s, but 104 mA to the CT
2020-04-09T01:51:48 < Thorn> yeah it will be a couple hundred mA total easily
2020-04-09T01:51:53 < englishman> catphish: im using this http://www.ti.com/product/LMZ21700
2020-04-09T01:52:11 < Thorn> or perhaps 150 mA
2020-04-09T01:52:29 < catphish> englishman: that's rather elegant
2020-04-09T01:52:38 < englishman> theres tons of those modules now
2020-04-09T01:52:54 < englishman> TI brought the price down a bunch
2020-04-09T01:53:45 < zyp> https://www.monolithicpower.com/en/mpm54304.html <- I still wanna try this thing
2020-04-09T01:54:19 < catphish> looks like many cheap regulators have lots of external component requirements
2020-04-09T01:54:32 < zyp> nah
2020-04-09T01:55:42 < zyp> a typical decent switcher will require input cap, output cap, inductor and two feedback divider resistors
2020-04-09T01:56:03 < zyp> unless you get a module that integrates that
2020-04-09T01:58:25 < zyp> assuming you got a synchronous one, otherwise you'll have to fuck around with diodes and shit
2020-04-09T01:58:49 < zyp> oh, and you'll probably need a boostrap cap as well, unless it's using a pfet for the high side switch
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2020-04-09T01:59:41 < zyp> I've used RT7257B in a couple of designs, it's cheap and dongs approved
2020-04-09T01:59:54 < zyp> but requires a compensation network as well
2020-04-09T02:00:20 < Thorn> ETH_MAC eats 42 mA on power scale 1 according to f475 datasheet
2020-04-09T02:00:26 < Thorn> hardly negligible lol
2020-04-09T02:00:42 < zyp> Thorn, depends how much the rest of your shit draws :)
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2020-04-09T02:02:32 < Thorn> the mcu itself in maximum config (from flash, cache enabled, max clock) w/o any peripherals will consume 108 mA typ, 146 mA max
2020-04-09T02:03:58 < Thorn> catphish: designing simple onboard dc/dc converters is a basic skill, better learn it sooner rather than later
2020-04-09T02:04:15 < Thorn> s/f475/f745/
2020-04-09T02:04:49 < zyp> I don't think the problem is that it's hard, just tedious :)
2020-04-09T02:06:17 < catphish> zyp: the one i looked at had basically that, and a diode
2020-04-09T02:06:36 < catphish> i'm afraid i'm used to linregs, just a single IC
2020-04-09T02:07:54 < zyp> I prefer synchronous bucks, they integrate a low side fet instead of requiring an external diode
2020-04-09T02:08:28 < zyp> means one less part to pick and source :)
2020-04-09T02:09:29 < qyx> do you wanna 1.5x1.5mm buck?
2020-04-09T02:10:12 < catphish> in my case i don't much care about size, but i love simplicity
2020-04-09T02:10:30 < zyp> catphish: https://www.richtek.com/assets/product_file/RT7257B/DS7257B-03.pdf
2020-04-09T02:11:12 < zyp> just copy the schematic from page 2, use the component values from the 3.3V line if that's what you want
2020-04-09T02:11:43 < catphish> looks sane enough
2020-04-09T02:11:50 < Thorn> external compensation network 👎
2020-04-09T02:12:00 < zyp> true
2020-04-09T02:12:13 < Thorn> what about good old http://aosmd.com/res/data_sheets/AOZ1282CI.pdf
2020-04-09T02:12:35 < zyp> external diode
2020-04-09T02:12:42 < qyx> I recommend http://www.ti.com/product/TPS62825
2020-04-09T02:12:42 < Thorn> it's compensated by the lack of compensation network
2020-04-09T02:12:50 < zyp> I disagree
2020-04-09T02:12:55 < qyx> low Iq, low part count
2020-04-09T02:13:51 < qyx> TPS6282533 gives you 3V3
2020-04-09T02:13:58 < zyp> compensation network is just a single capacitor and resistor, easy to spec/pick
2020-04-09T02:14:05 < zyp> diodes have a fuckton of different footprints
2020-04-09T02:15:30 < catphish> these are beautiful http://www.ti.com/lit/ds/symlink/lmzm23600.pdf?HQS=TI-null-null-mousermode-df-pf-null-wwe&DCM=yes&ref_url=https%3A%2F%2Feu.mouser.com%2F&distId=26
2020-04-09T02:15:37 < catphish> LMZM23600
2020-04-09T02:16:27 < zyp> still needs the caps
2020-04-09T02:16:42 < catphish> true
2020-04-09T02:16:52 < catphish> but even linregs like caps :)
2020-04-09T02:17:01 < zyp> of course
2020-04-09T02:18:05 < zyp> beware it might be annoying to solder though
2020-04-09T02:18:52 < catphish> also https://eu.mouser.com/datasheet/2/942/SF_TR10-1508831.pdf
2020-04-09T02:19:00 < catphish> can't screw up soldering that bad boy
2020-04-09T02:19:22 < zyp> how about https://www.aliexpress.com/item/32994644496.html
2020-04-09T02:19:40 < zyp> if it's just for some one off stuff
2020-04-09T02:20:13 < catphish> that could work
2020-04-09T02:21:14 < zyp> or https://www.aliexpress.com/item/4000287903148.html if you want the voltage preset
2020-04-09T02:21:37 < catphish> i prefer that with the TH pins
2020-04-09T02:22:07 < catphish> perfect
2020-04-09T02:22:10 < zyp> lots of shit like that available
2020-04-09T02:23:24 < catphish> with that said, i should stop being lazy and do it properly
2020-04-09T02:23:47 < catphish> i'm not a child with his first arduino
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2020-04-09T02:36:55 < catphish> similar but available through normal channels https://eu.mouser.com/datasheet/2/670/vxo78-500-1774699.pdf
2020-04-09T02:37:04 < catphish> i like it
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2020-04-09T03:20:05 < aandrew> Those 78xx replacement regulators have been around for over a decade. Not bad little things if you want to up your efficiency without completely redesigning your board
2020-04-09T03:20:35 < aandrew> That said, I haven’t used a 78xx in a design for longer than that so...
2020-04-09T03:21:15 < ds2> now if they only had buck/boost versions of them
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2020-04-09T03:22:08 < ds2> a simple 3 pin solution for 5V's from 4AA's would be convenient
2020-04-09T03:24:33 < zyp> you could always make one
2020-04-09T03:27:39 < ds2> $$$$$$
2020-04-09T03:27:53 < ds2> only have 1/10^1000 of that :(
2020-04-09T03:29:02 < ds2> closest is those cheap boost regulars from asian 
2020-04-09T03:29:11 < catphish> i was actually wondering if i could replicate the 78xx replacement
2020-04-09T03:29:23 < catphish> ie find a schematic for this https://www.ezsbc.com/index.php/psu2-5.html
2020-04-09T03:30:58 < catphish> i'm sure it's not complicated, just be good to copy/paste the values
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2020-04-09T03:40:13 < catphish> i got tired, now i just have this: https://i.imgur.com/G8Au9sL.png
2020-04-09T03:40:26 < catphish> i'll replace the lm7805 later
2020-04-09T03:40:33 < Laurenceb> wew https://hackaday.io/project/164732-mprt-modified-planetary-robotics-transmission
2020-04-09T03:40:39 < Laurenceb> hackaday did something useful
2020-04-09T03:41:14 < catphish> need a video
2020-04-09T03:41:30 < catphish> ah there is one, good
2020-04-09T03:43:23 < catphish> i don't see how that can work :(
2020-04-09T03:44:43 < zyp> the two outer gears have a different number of teeth
2020-04-09T03:44:54 < catphish> i'm watching it work, but i dont believe it :(
2020-04-09T03:45:35 < zyp> a few teeth difference at a big number of teeth doesn't make much of a difference in tooth size
2020-04-09T03:45:44 < catphish> i don't understand how the lid can move relative to the fixed casing, when both are meshed to the same teeth
2020-04-09T03:45:51 < zyp> they aren't
2020-04-09T03:47:17 < catphish> sure looks like hey are https://i.imgur.com/dz003Y8.png
2020-04-09T03:47:57 < zyp> the ring has 60 teeth, so when the planets have rolled 60 teeth, they have done one full round
2020-04-09T03:48:37 < zyp> but the ring in the lid has a different number of teeth, so the planets will have rotated more or less than 360 degrees wrt. to the lid
2020-04-09T03:49:11 < zyp> not sure whether it's more or less, doesn't say
2020-04-09T03:50:22 < catphish> but the tooth spacing would have to be very similar else the wear would be insane right
2020-04-09T03:51:14 < zyp> it's probably a teeth spacing/backlash tradeoff
2020-04-09T03:51:48 < catphish> well i guess it works, makes sense now :)
2020-04-09T03:52:05 < zyp>  I guess with three planets, you'd have to add or remove teeth in sets of three, so I guess the lid has either 57 or 63 teeth
2020-04-09T03:52:06 < Laurenceb> hang on
2020-04-09T03:52:07 < catphish> but i don't like it
2020-04-09T03:52:09 < Laurenceb> US patent 5,409,431
2020-04-09T03:52:47 < catphish> i'd be happier if the planets had 2 layers
2020-04-09T03:52:58 < catphish> with a slightly larger or smaller top
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2020-04-09T03:53:52 < zyp> ah
2020-04-09T03:53:56 < zyp> «… and then an output ring gear tooth count of ringteeth - 3.»
2020-04-09T03:53:58 < zyp> so 57
2020-04-09T03:54:37 < catphish> looks like the normal way is to mount the output shaft onto the centre of each planet
2020-04-09T03:56:03 < catphish> the inaccurate spacing of the teeth really bothers me
2020-04-09T03:57:14 < zyp> why? the two rings aren't touching each other
2020-04-09T03:57:53 < zyp> the two rings are only touching the planets, and the planets don't really see a big difference
2020-04-09T03:57:57 < catphish> but one of them must have different tooth spacing than the planets
2020-04-09T03:58:48 < zyp> if it were a problem, you could just make the teeth a bit thicker/thinner/taller/lower on the upper half of the planets
2020-04-09T03:58:57 < catphish> i agree
2020-04-09T03:59:13 < catphish> <catphish> i'd be happier if the planets had 2 layers, with a slightly larger or smaller top
2020-04-09T03:59:28 < zyp> ah, right
2020-04-09T03:59:46 < catphish> then one of the outer rings would be marginally smaller or larger than the other
2020-04-09T03:59:53 < catphish> and have the same tooth spacing
2020-04-09T04:00:25 < zyp> the thing is, the difference doesn't necessarily have to be on the planets, it could be on the ring
2020-04-09T04:00:34 < catphish> no, is has to be both
2020-04-09T04:01:02 < catphish> oh, maybe not
2020-04-09T04:01:38 < zyp> no, the tooth profile of the two rings could be different to account for the different spacing
2020-04-09T04:02:10 < catphish> so a larger moving ring, with a clever tooth profile that mimics the stationary ring?
2020-04-09T04:02:24 < zyp> but still, it probably doesn't matter in practice
2020-04-09T04:03:16 < catphish> https://cdn.hackaday.io/images/5063331554695866826.jpg
2020-04-09T04:03:21 < zyp> the teeth needs clearance anyway
2020-04-09T04:03:27 < catphish> in that image you can better see what they've done actually
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2020-04-09T04:03:46 < zyp> three teeth less means a pitch difference of 5%
2020-04-09T04:03:47 < catphish> the moving ring has less pronounced teeth
2020-04-09T04:03:55 < zyp> tooth clearance is probably more than 5%
2020-04-09T04:04:36 < Laurenceb> looks like its patented
2020-04-09T04:04:45 < Laurenceb> actually maybe the us patent has expired
2020-04-09T04:05:02 < Laurenceb> https://ntrs.nasa.gov/search.jsp?R=19950022281
2020-04-09T04:05:14 < catphish> it clearly abuses one of the tolerances in tooth design
2020-04-09T04:05:21 < catphish> but it's clever
2020-04-09T04:07:33 < catphish> they may even have marginally changed multiple properties of the teeth keeping each property within workable spec
2020-04-09T04:07:48 < catphish> i'll buy 10
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2020-04-09T04:10:44 < catphish> oops
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2020-04-09T04:21:22 < zyp> huh, crosslink-nx looks fun
2020-04-09T04:25:08 < zyp> available in qfn72, got a risc-v compatible ALU/register file as a hard primitive, as well as a bunch of ram
2020-04-09T04:26:43 < zyp> and almost an order of magnitude more logic than ice40
2020-04-09T04:27:41 < zyp> seems like a pretty good platform to do mcu-stuff with custom periphs
2020-04-09T04:29:58 < zyp> disadvantages vs a normal mcu is the typical fpga stuff; needs external flash or whatever for the config and multiple power rails (1V, 1V8 and whatever other IO voltages you need)
2020-04-09T04:43:10 < emeb_mac> sounds interesting
2020-04-09T04:44:05 < zyp> looks like the qfn72 might be able to do SGMII also
2020-04-09T04:45:41 < zyp> there's a CDR block that does clock recovery and deserialization
2020-04-09T04:46:41 < zyp> but I don't see a corresponding tx block, so I guess it doesn't need dedicated hardware for that, since clock recovery is the hard part
2020-04-09T04:47:19 < emeb_mac> tx shift registers are easy if your logic is fast enough
2020-04-09T04:47:44 < zyp> yeah, and the IO cells have gearboxes
2020-04-09T04:49:07 < emeb_mac> hmm... ADC blocks?
2020-04-09T04:49:11 < zyp> yeah, that too
2020-04-09T04:51:11 < zyp> ADC is apparently on the bottom side, along with the highspeed IO - 1.8V max
2020-04-09T04:54:35 < emeb_mac> very new parts - don't seem to be stocked anywhere yet.
2020-04-09T04:54:43 < zyp> yep
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2020-04-09T04:54:58 < emeb_mac> will be interesting to see the pricing
2020-04-09T04:55:29 < zyp> will be interesting to see how long it takes before it's supported by the opensource stuff
2020-04-09T04:56:02 < zyp> it seems like the obvious next target
2020-04-09T04:57:15 < emeb_mac> yeah. they jumped on the ecp5 stuff pretty fast.
2020-04-09T04:57:56 < emeb_mac> and most of lattice's families seem to have sufficiently similar architectures that doing the RE isn't too hard once they've got access to parts.
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2020-04-09T05:22:39 < emeb_mac> Norway! https://www.thefirearmblog.com/blog/2020/03/20/friday-night-lights-norwegian-simrad-gn1-biocular-nvgs/
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2020-04-09T05:30:09 < englishman> whoa, advanced tech
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2020-04-09T05:32:40 < emeb_mac> so cyclopean
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2020-04-09T05:52:29 < Cracki> "wave drive" without flexing, nice
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2020-04-09T07:59:23 < upgrdman> mingw pros: im using mingw-w64 and it compiles 64bit stuff fine. i want to compile 32bit stuff with it as well, but when i "gcc -m32 ..." i get lets of errors like "ld.exe: cannot find -lmingw32" and several other libs. i installed "base-devel mingw-w64-x86_64-toolchain mingw-w64-i686-toolchain" so i assume i have both the 64bit and 32bit libs?
2020-04-09T08:00:51 < upgrdman> oh shit, think i found my problem. only 64bit shits on my $PATH
2020-04-09T08:05:04 < upgrdman> ya. fixed. :/
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2020-04-09T09:05:45 < Thorn> T - 55 min https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=erfXf08tuFg
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2020-04-09T09:52:08 < PaulFertser> BrainDamage: "gong fu" is chinese style, it's very unlike russian.
2020-04-09T09:56:59 < upgrdman__> speaking of russia, i was eating some russian stroopwafels yesterday. so good :)
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2020-04-09T09:58:50 < upgrdman> makefile pros: i use "export PATH ..." to set the path. is it possible to do that only for certain tagets? i want different PATHs for different targets
2020-04-09T09:59:26 < upgrdman> i kinda want to do something like "make 32bit" or "make 64bit" to compile different versions of my DLL
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2020-04-09T10:00:01 < Thorn> upgrdman: just put that command into your recipes
2020-04-09T10:00:31 < upgrdman> make dll 
2020-04-09T10:00:31 < upgrdman> export PATH := /mingw32/bin:/bin
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2020-04-09T10:00:40 < upgrdman> /bin/sh: line 0: export: `:=': not a valid identifier
2020-04-09T10:00:55 < Thorn> why := ?
2020-04-09T10:00:58 < Thorn> target:\n\texport PATH=...\n\tgcc ....
2020-04-09T10:01:13 < Thorn> live https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=erfXf08tuFg
2020-04-09T10:02:04 < upgrdman> Thorn, then the path is only valid for that line
2020-04-09T10:02:32 < upgrdman> i can cheat with "export ...;gcc ..." so it's all on one line, but thats kinda ugly
2020-04-09T10:05:32 < upgrdman> oh https://www.gnu.org/software/make/manual/html_node/Target_002dspecific.html
2020-04-09T10:05:39 < upgrdman> that works
2020-04-09T10:09:22 < Thorn> hm interesting, didn't know that
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2020-04-09T10:40:05 < qyx> oh so aisler is doing multi-sourcing
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2020-04-09T10:40:28 < qyx> that may be the cause their PCBs look different each time
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2020-04-09T10:53:22 < upgrdman> hahaha https://www.reddit.com/r/opengl/comments/fws0dj/is_there_some_sort_of_repository_for_vertices/
2020-04-09T10:55:45 < srk> lol
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2020-04-09T11:00:42 < srk> I was playing with CSG rendering lately http://48.io/~rmarko/2020-03-18-175811_1920x1058_scrot.png
2020-04-09T11:01:07 < srk> has some issues..
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2020-04-09T13:55:15 < onio> I am using Keil RTX5 RTOS for STM32H7XX I want an equivalent function for the HAL_GetTick(). I have tried using OS_Tick_GetInterval() but I get undefined symbol
2020-04-09T13:56:32 < onio> I have added the source to the project (I think see image) https://imgur.com/a/Qev6gma
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2020-04-09T14:23:21 < mawk> there's the cmsis interface for it right ?
2020-04-09T14:24:36 < mawk> first it's more like OS_Tick_GetCount
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2020-04-09T14:29:50 < onio> mawk, that gave the same undefined error. I found a work around by overriding HAL_GetTick() { return ((uint32_t)osKernelGetTickCount ());}
2020-04-09T14:30:11 < mawk> it's a linker error ?
2020-04-09T14:30:35 < mawk> yes osKernelGetTickCount is the CMSIS function wrapping OS_Tick_GetCount
2020-04-09T14:30:57 < onio> yes 
2020-04-09T15:26:26 < Mangy_Dog> Anyone who might have used FT81* graphics chips happen to know how to turn off sub pixel mapping or AA when rendering rects or lines? So its sharp?
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2020-04-09T15:34:38 < qyx> PaulFertser: no openocd support for /dev/gpiochip?
2020-04-09T15:35:03 < qyx> sysfs-gpio works, but 1.6KiB/s only
2020-04-09T15:35:39  * srk wants to write one for libgpiod if nobody beats me to it
2020-04-09T15:37:37 < qyx> isnt is the same as I want?
2020-04-09T15:38:03 < srk> yes
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2020-04-09T15:38:59 < srk> doubt it will help with speeds, maybe if ops can be batched
2020-04-09T15:39:36 < srk> won't need kernel recompilation tho since sysfs is disabled in recent kernels
2020-04-09T15:39:39 < srk> sysfs-gpio
2020-04-09T15:40:34 < qyx> http://openocd.zylin.com/#/q/topic:libgpiod+(status:open+OR+status:merged)
2020-04-09T15:40:39 < qyx> someone is working on it
2020-04-09T15:40:45 < srk> nice
2020-04-09T15:41:59 < srk> lol, I can just use imxgpio instead
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2020-04-09T15:57:42 < PaulFertser> qyx: one nice fellow from ST has recently added gpiod driver, see on Gerrit. Test, comment, like subscribe, press the bell button.
2020-04-09T15:58:29 < mawk> lol
2020-04-09T15:58:42 < mawk> /dev/gpiochip is nice to use
2020-04-09T16:00:34 < mawk> the operations can be done simultaneously for several pins yes, if that's what you call batching srk 
2020-04-09T16:04:45 < PaulFertser> mawk: he confirms, setting the firewall zone manually for the tun interface persists.
2020-04-09T16:04:50 < PaulFertser> Thank you mawk!
2020-04-09T16:05:00 < mawk> perfect !
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2020-04-09T16:17:16 < srk> mawk: yes, exactly that, not sure if it can be done with openocd APIs
2020-04-09T16:21:02 < PaulFertser> srk: should be possible yes. And I think the patch already implements that.
2020-04-09T16:22:10 < srk> only skimmed it quickly, my main computer won't do javascript so I have to walk to desktop..
2020-04-09T16:25:41 < mawk> haha
2020-04-09T16:25:54 < mawk> in all the web stuff I do I take honor in making the site work without js
2020-04-09T16:25:57 < mawk> then add js as sugar
2020-04-09T16:26:09 < srk> mawk++
2020-04-09T16:26:10 < mawk> but that mentality is dead now with all the react shitz
2020-04-09T16:26:31 < srk> when I woke up I've spent few minutes blocking nonsense elements on stackoverflow
2020-04-09T16:26:44 < srk> especially red fucking banner that this site works best with js :)
2020-04-09T16:26:49 < mawk> lol
2020-04-09T16:26:55 < Cracki> aaaah I hate those sites that cba to render their data serverside and deliver that. it's always an empty page, then another request for the actual content
2020-04-09T16:27:04 < mawk> yeah god provided them with <noscript>, so they must use it right
2020-04-09T16:27:07 < mawk> it's the totalitarian principle
2020-04-09T16:27:24 < Cracki> deport them into coding camps
2020-04-09T16:27:29 < mawk> <noscript><h1 style="color:red">ENABLE JS!!!1</h1></noscript>
2020-04-09T16:27:55 < srk> I need to take pics of SO before/after and publish that somewhere
2020-04-09T16:28:03 < srk> and send that to SO staff
2020-04-09T16:28:22 < srk> like, pls..
2020-04-09T16:28:41 < PaulFertser> mawk: (web stuff without JS) you rock \o/
2020-04-09T16:29:11 < zyp> meh, fuck serverside templating
2020-04-09T16:29:28 < srk> fuck client side rendering
2020-04-09T16:29:48 < Cracki> there ought to be some jizz gui stuff that renders clientside as well as serverside
2020-04-09T16:30:21 < Cracki> js runs serverside already. just make it render html there
2020-04-09T16:30:24 < srk> I use something like that, common html rendering code which is shared between client/server
2020-04-09T16:30:33 < Cracki> if they think it's such a good idea, they can take the cpu load from that
2020-04-09T16:33:08 < zyp> IMO it's pointless and tedious to pass client state back and forth to the server, I prefer leaving client state on the client, only making the server deal with useful stuff
2020-04-09T16:34:01 < zyp> my store shit keeps the entire cart state on the client, only submitting it to the server once the order is actually submitted
2020-04-09T16:36:40 < mawk> my company sent me a fruit basket
2020-04-09T16:40:18 < PaulFertser> I can imagine IMAP4 interface to order stuff from a store. Like moving the items you need to the "cart" folder.
2020-04-09T16:40:34 < zyp> haha
2020-04-09T16:41:11 < PaulFertser> Really, and individual "emails" would be full description.
2020-04-09T16:41:40 < PaulFertser> And so all the clients for all the platforms are already written. Open and standard API.
2020-04-09T16:42:09 < Cracki> IMAP *shudder* I'm so glad I found "gmvault" that helps me keep gmail backed up. still rather slow. it's like that protocol can't do pipelining at all
2020-04-09T16:46:44  * karlp laughs
2020-04-09T16:46:53 < karlp> imap is horribly implemented by different clients
2020-04-09T16:49:04 < srk> Cracki: there's offlineimap as well
2020-04-09T16:49:22 < Cracki> hmmm thx looking into it
2020-04-09T16:50:06 < srk> I've started with it due to slowness of RedHats internal mailserver :)
2020-04-09T16:55:47 < PaulFertser> Cracki: mbsync is probably better than offlineimap
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2020-04-09T16:56:29 < Cracki> as a token of my appreciation, I present to you a kookaburra https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KLfOjOcCWls
2020-04-09T16:57:34 < Cracki> >or to spare flaky servers like M$ Exchange
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2020-04-09T17:56:20 < nn7> I am trying to get some HAL_UART working in interrupt mode. I seem to be receiving fine, handling 1 byte receive and the rxcpltcallback calling hal_uart_receive_it again. That seems to work.
2020-04-09T17:57:19 < nn7> After I receive a string, I respond with hal_uart_transmit_it in the main code. That works fine as long as the strings come in no quicker than maybe every 300 ms. If a string comes in faster, the STM32 might wait 7 seconds before sending the response (although the rest of the code seems to keep running fine).
2020-04-09T17:57:40 < nn7> The Transmit_IT does get called, but the data seems to be stuck somewhere.
2020-04-09T18:06:50 < nn7> ack, maybe this is an xbee delay
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2020-04-09T18:20:10 < Mangy_Dog> im having a super weird issue going on right now.... Anyone know why my centLoc and lengthHalf values are 0? They should be fractions of the length and height being set >> https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/538814618106331139/697828052780187728/unknown.png
2020-04-09T18:24:28 < zyp> Mangy_Dog, you're doing integer division, then integer multiplication, then converting to float
2020-04-09T18:24:52 < zyp> so if height and length are less than 100, division result will be 0
2020-04-09T18:25:42 < Mangy_Dog> nodnods just been explained to me
2020-04-09T18:25:47 < Mangy_Dog> thanks still
2020-04-09T18:26:39 < zyp> centLoc = height * 0.01 * val; should get you what you want, efficiently
2020-04-09T18:27:03 < zyp> or maybe even height * val * 0.01
2020-04-09T18:27:38 < zyp> make that 0.01f
2020-04-09T18:28:23 < Mangy_Dog> nods i just needed to cast it in float, (float) at the begining of the calc
2020-04-09T18:28:50 < zyp> multiplying by a float would make an implicit cast
2020-04-09T18:29:22 < zyp> or dividing, for that matter
2020-04-09T18:32:05  * emeb admits he hasn't learned the rules of implicit casting. :P
2020-04-09T18:32:36 < emeb> so my code is full of redundant explicit casts. also lots of parentheses.
2020-04-09T18:32:46 < zyp> better safe than sorry, probably :)
2020-04-09T18:33:49 < zyp> if you have operands with different types, the operation generally gets promoted to whatever is most capable
2020-04-09T18:34:04 < emeb> "generally"
2020-04-09T18:34:06 < srk> Ivory don't have implicit casts, you always have to cast explicitely - there's a function called safeCast for safe to convert things like uint8 -> uint16
2020-04-09T18:34:22 < zyp> two small int operations generally turn into a 32-bit int, int and float turns into float and int/float and double turns into double
2020-04-09T18:34:35 < Mangy_Dog> https://youtu.be/-0P-zgVAPb8 i now have a little moving widgit i can manipulate
2020-04-09T18:34:54 < zyp> srk, idk. what Ivory is, but no implicit casts is pretty fucking annoying
2020-04-09T18:34:57 < zyp> java suffers from that
2020-04-09T18:35:37 < srk> zyp: safe C :)
2020-04-09T18:35:48 < srk> it's not that annoying in practice
2020-04-09T18:36:27 < zyp> maybe not if you're paid per character written
2020-04-09T18:36:34 < srk> quite the opposite
2020-04-09T18:36:37 < veverak> ** ehm ehm ** wise coders in C use -Wconversion anyway ** ehmm ehmm **
2020-04-09T18:36:42 < veverak> (same shit for C)
2020-04-09T18:37:09 < srk> zyp: it eliminates certain class of bugs so it's worth it 
2020-04-09T18:37:12 < emeb> you know what C really needs? Something like a modulo operator for computing circular buffer pointers that gives the right answer when you feed it a negative value.
2020-04-09T18:37:28 < veverak> wat?
2020-04-09T18:37:34 < veverak> write your own function for it
2020-04-09T18:37:38 < karlp> veverak: -Wconversion is nice, but it' snot a catchall
2020-04-09T18:37:42 < zyp> yeah, negative modulo in C is kinda retarded
2020-04-09T18:37:52 < zyp> python gets it right, C gets it wrong
2020-04-09T18:37:54 < emeb> annoying as fsck
2020-04-09T18:38:11 < karlp> I've foudn myself prefering to use * 1.0f in places rather than casts, so I don't too much bracket soup
2020-04-09T18:38:35 < zyp> same
2020-04-09T18:38:46  * srk has $ 
2020-04-09T18:38:50 < Mangy_Dog> hmmmmm bracket soup
2020-04-09T18:39:18 < emeb> nice shortcut
2020-04-09T18:39:39 < srk> it annoys me when I don't have that like in bash :D
2020-04-09T18:40:47 < zyp> when I'm doing stuff like grabbing an integer from the ADC and wants it out as a scaled float, I generally make a float constant for the scaling and multiply that with the integer value
2020-04-09T18:40:59 < BrainDamage> PaulFertser: I know gong-fu is the chinese ritual, I was wondering if you were using it to refer to a russian version of tea preparation as loan word 
2020-04-09T18:41:16 < veverak> zyp: I prefer to hide it in function
2020-04-09T18:41:34 < veverak> zyp: makes it easier to change conversion in case it's not only multiplication
2020-04-09T18:42:35 < zyp> eh
2020-04-09T18:42:49 < zyp> out = value * gain_factor - offset;
2020-04-09T18:43:32 < zyp> except thermistors, they are annoying higher order functions :)
2020-04-09T18:44:20 < zyp> doesn't really change the point though, point is I don't explicitly cast value
2020-04-09T18:44:42 < veverak> I do and actually prevented some bugs with that
2020-04-09T18:45:20 < veverak> explicit casts forced me to realize how to cast the equations properly and that forced me to realize I have rounding errors
2020-04-09T18:45:30 < zyp> I prevent bugs by keeping code readable by avoiding shit like bracket soup
2020-04-09T18:45:44 < veverak> that wold be pain in the ass to debug
2020-04-09T18:46:14 < PaulFertser> BrainDamage: it would be odd if I was really doing that. Not sure if there're any chinese loan words in russia at all. I'm just doing a crude imitation of the process with what I have handy (small locally manufactured gaiwan and a glass for decanting)
2020-04-09T18:46:20 < veverak> well, explicit casts results in more code, but if you have bracket hell, you are doin i wrong :)
2020-04-09T18:47:03 < zyp> and if you have nonobvious implicit casts, you're also doing it wrong
2020-04-09T18:47:53 < veverak> here is the differece, nonobvious implicit casts can happend because you simply fail to notice it
2020-04-09T18:48:00 < veverak> you hardly fail to notice bracket hell
2020-04-09T18:48:44 < zyp> it's pretty easy to miss wrongly nested brackets if you just have too fucking many of them
2020-04-09T18:49:06 < srk> obviously.
2020-04-09T18:49:15 < veverak> too many nested brackets - bracket hell - should not be in the code
2020-04-09T18:49:23 < PaulFertser> implicit float -> double casts, you gotta love that on stm32
2020-04-09T18:50:50 < Ultrasauce> 會
2020-04-09T18:55:48 < karlp> PaulFertser: that's what the newer f7s were for, double hardfloats :)
2020-04-09T18:59:01 < Mangy_Dog> without an RTOS is there anyway to make a semi perminant global varible? I only want it for a a limited time. But I need to pass some variables across multiple loops, but then free it up when its no longer needed?
2020-04-09T18:59:13 < Mangy_Dog> though without using globals obviousely
2020-04-09T19:00:00 < Cracki> you can do heap memory yourself, don't need rtos for that. newlib even offers it.
2020-04-09T19:00:01 < mawk> do you have malloc ?
2020-04-09T19:00:05 < mawk> yeah
2020-04-09T19:00:29 < mawk> but for the "no global" well you need some mechanism for it anyway
2020-04-09T19:00:34 < mawk> you can store a pointer as static in your function
2020-04-09T19:00:41 < mawk> then free it when you want
2020-04-09T19:00:48 < mawk> but malloc has quite some overhead, maybe a global is better
2020-04-09T19:00:48 < Mangy_Dog> hmmm
2020-04-09T19:01:00 < Mangy_Dog> nods
2020-04-09T19:01:01 < mawk> depending on the size of your variable
2020-04-09T19:01:19 < Mangy_Dog> 20 odd uint8s in an array
2020-04-09T19:01:39 < Cracki> and their lifetime depends on what?
2020-04-09T19:01:49 < mawk> if they're odd you can save 1 bit on each !
2020-04-09T19:01:52 < Mangy_Dog> the time a page is opened on my UI design
2020-04-09T19:01:56 < mawk> best premature optimization ever
2020-04-09T19:02:14 < Cracki> what has a reference/pointer to this bunch of data
2020-04-09T19:02:15 < Mangy_Dog> lol didnt mean odd numbers :p
2020-04-09T19:02:27 < Mangy_Dog> just a phrase meaning... roughly
2020-04-09T19:02:33 < Mangy_Dog> or, or so
2020-04-09T19:03:10 < Cracki> if the lifetime of that "page" is the lifetime of some function, you can use a local variable and use it in calls
2020-04-09T19:03:56 < Cracki> but... that's probably not how you do it. you probably keep the state of the menu somehow, and only run short event handlers
2020-04-09T19:04:01 < Mangy_Dog> trouible is without an rtos a page isnt limited to a while or for loop
2020-04-09T19:04:08 < Mangy_Dog> so i can place a varable outside of that
2020-04-09T19:04:21 < Mangy_Dog> and it needs to be non blocking
2020-04-09T19:04:32 < Cracki> is the menu tree fixed? then you only need a path that's at most height(tree) long
2020-04-09T19:04:33 < Mangy_Dog> as i have a bunch of other non blocking code running along side it
2020-04-09T19:04:40 < Mangy_Dog> through a basic schedular
2020-04-09T19:04:43 < Cracki> right
2020-04-09T19:05:20 < Cracki> what are those uint8 anyway, do they specify the current path into the menu?
2020-04-09T19:05:57 < Mangy_Dog> given this is an effects UI rather than a true functioning one... It would be just an array of current values a widget has
2020-04-09T19:06:12 < Mangy_Dog> at that current frame
2020-04-09T19:06:32 < Mangy_Dog> there would be a second array of booleans that would hold the direction the widget is running towards
2020-04-09T19:06:56 < Cracki> I'd just keep the state of every widget instance permanently
2020-04-09T19:07:20 < Mangy_Dog> so just hold it in the global then
2020-04-09T19:07:26 < Mangy_Dog> 22bytes is hardly tons
2020-04-09T19:07:34 < Cracki> if you _need_ to save memory, then you can think about putting that inside heap memory
2020-04-09T19:07:36 < Mangy_Dog> i just dont want to get complacent and start running into trouble
2020-04-09T19:07:45 < Cracki> premature
2020-04-09T19:07:51 < Mangy_Dog> maybe so
2020-04-09T19:07:52 < Cracki> you learn by running into trouble
2020-04-09T19:08:04 < Cracki> seek trouble
2020-04-09T19:09:02 < Mangy_Dog> https://youtu.be/-vL9uhkwo00 just to give an idea what im remaking..... the small wriggly dots at the moment
2020-04-09T19:09:43 < Mangy_Dog> before the whole UI stuff was on a nextion module... outside of the base MCu
2020-04-09T19:09:50 < Mangy_Dog> so i didnt have to worry about blocking or anything
2020-04-09T19:10:21 < Mangy_Dog> but now im intergrating everything and building the UI from scratch in code now..... I have to give a lot more into non blocking code....
2020-04-09T19:10:39 < Cracki> that or an rtos :>
2020-04-09T19:10:50 < Cracki> or any kind of context switching
2020-04-09T19:10:52 < Mangy_Dog> ill just make an array that i can reuse in multiple pages for different states of things
2020-04-09T19:10:55 < Mangy_Dog> heap lite :p
2020-04-09T19:11:21 < Mangy_Dog> in some ways an rtos would make things easier
2020-04-09T19:11:25 < Mangy_Dog> and i might still go down that route
2020-04-09T19:11:47 < Mangy_Dog> at this moment in time though Im just making a few pages so i can get the workflow pipeline sorted
2020-04-09T19:11:52 < Mangy_Dog> get a few widget functions working 
2020-04-09T19:12:01 < Cracki> ye big array, you can cast it to whatever struct you need rn
2020-04-09T19:12:05 < Mangy_Dog> then take a break from this project do some more stargate work then come back to this a little later
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2020-04-09T19:32:50 < kakimir> stargate?
2020-04-09T19:33:00 < kakimir> Mangy_Dog
2020-04-09T19:33:07 < Mangy_Dog> big spinning things
2020-04-09T19:33:10 < Mangy_Dog> that spins
2020-04-09T19:37:11 < Thorn> hatch opening https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0WHpQQ20PqE
2020-04-09T19:37:37 < englishman> Thorn are you following this comet that's going to swing by at the end of May
2020-04-09T19:37:46 < Mangy_Dog> lets hope they didnt forget the airlock seals
2020-04-09T19:38:02 < Thorn> englishman I've read it's already breaking up
2020-04-09T19:38:21 < Mangy_Dog> theres a comet?
2020-04-09T19:39:03 < englishman> what does that mean for magnitude and ejecta?
2020-04-09T19:41:16 < Mangy_Dog> the most important question....
2020-04-09T19:41:30 < Mangy_Dog> can it be seen with the nakid eye?
2020-04-09T19:42:20 < Thorn> my understanding is it's going to be bad for visibility
2020-04-09T19:42:40 < Mangy_Dog> :<
2020-04-09T19:45:08 < englishman> my humane trap killed a squirrel
2020-04-09T19:45:15 < englishman> it got caught under the trip plate
2020-04-09T19:45:21 < Mangy_Dog> :<
2020-04-09T19:45:32 < Mangy_Dog> not used my humane traps for squirrels 
2020-04-09T19:45:41 < Mangy_Dog> we had a mouse problem this last winter
2020-04-09T19:45:49 < Mangy_Dog> caught over 70 mice in the end
2020-04-09T19:45:57 < Mangy_Dog> some may have been recatches
2020-04-09T19:46:07 < Mangy_Dog> we found and sealed some holes too
2020-04-09T19:46:11 < Mangy_Dog> anyway at one point.....
2020-04-09T19:46:29 < Mangy_Dog> we had a genuine canabal mouse issue 
2020-04-09T19:46:38 < Mangy_Dog> 4 mice caught one night.... 3 made it out alive D:
2020-04-09T19:46:46 < Mangy_Dog> the other three ate the 4th
2020-04-09T19:46:55 < Mangy_Dog> it genuingly made me feel a bit sick when i found that
2020-04-09T20:04:51 < Cracki> they aren't rats but you can kill them
2020-04-09T20:04:57 < Cracki> they're still vermin
2020-04-09T20:05:14 < Cracki> and if the squirrel is a gray/black one, it's an invasive species
2020-04-09T20:07:49 < Cracki> check out joseph carter the mink man on youtube, also robin foxer
2020-04-09T20:08:19 < Cracki> the former hunts rats, musk rats, etc with minks. the latter just shoots the bastards by the dozens
2020-04-09T20:08:38 < Cracki> (both rack up double/triple digit numbers regularly)
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2020-04-09T20:58:42 < bitmask> heyo
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2020-04-09T21:23:42 < Steffanx> heyo.
2020-04-09T21:26:56 < jadew> sup
2020-04-09T21:30:53 < boddax_> ole
2020-04-09T21:35:03 < englishman> welcome back Steffanx
2020-04-09T21:35:52 < englishman> Do you read that as steffan-x or stef-fanks?
2020-04-09T21:38:03 < emeb> is that like Spanx?
2020-04-09T21:39:41 < aandrew> now that's an image I didn't need
2020-04-09T21:40:28 < emeb> yw
2020-04-09T21:51:37 < Steffanx> Steffan-X would be fine.
2020-04-09T21:56:55 < Steffanx> So hows your day mr englishman
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2020-04-09T21:58:02 < englishman> excellent
2020-04-09T21:58:04 < englishman> how about yourself
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2020-04-09T22:09:50 < Steffanx> it was fine.
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2020-04-09T22:18:49 < nn7> +++
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2020-04-09T23:15:03 < kakinull> I seem to have hunting spider in my bed
2020-04-09T23:15:07 < kakinull> green and big
2020-04-09T23:15:15 < kakinull> better sleep now
2020-04-09T23:16:09 < kakinull> let it do it's work keeping all other small animals ded
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2020-04-09T23:17:29 < kakinull> in australia do you just continue sleeping when you feel small animals crawling across your skin?
2020-04-09T23:20:17 < kakinull> okay I threw it out of the bed now.. it seems to be atracted by any movement
2020-04-09T23:21:00 < kakinull> or maybe it's the laptop screen illumination
2020-04-09T23:22:12 < kakinull> I noticed it when it entered the laptop screen area
2020-04-09T23:22:21 < Steffanx> sleep now kakinull?
2020-04-09T23:22:27 < kakinull> sleep yes
2020-04-09T23:23:31 < Steffanx> are you sick?
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2020-04-09T23:24:06 < kakinull> imagine you were in australia, watching a movie in bed from your laptop
2020-04-09T23:24:21 < Steffanx> yes
2020-04-09T23:24:32 < kakinull> suddenly half of the screen was covered by silhouette of a spider
2020-04-09T23:24:36 < Steffanx> Got my laptop in bed mate.
2020-04-09T23:24:48 < kakinull> then it runs away from screen to darkness
2020-04-09T23:24:52 < Steffanx> but there are no such spiders in finnisherland
2020-04-09T23:25:14 < kakinull> no
2020-04-09T23:25:22 < kakinull> and not in steffland
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2020-04-09T23:25:51 < Steffanx> nein
2020-04-09T23:26:32 < Steffanx> so whats happening in kakiland?
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2020-04-09T23:30:32 < kakinull> nothing
2020-04-09T23:33:08 < kakinull> the usual
2020-04-09T23:33:23 < kakinull> shitshow
2020-04-09T23:35:44 < kakinull> they got hundreds of thousands masks from china today
2020-04-09T23:36:33 < kakinull> tested in state institute of inspection and deemed not suitable for medical use
2020-04-09T23:36:51 < kakinull> shady business arrangements are involved in order of masks
2020-04-09T23:38:41 < kakinull> and moneys were wired to belgian bank account
2020-04-09T23:39:36 < Steffanx> hahahahaha
2020-04-09T23:39:41 < Steffanx> the same happened in dutchland
2020-04-09T23:39:51 < kakinull> and I'm not suprised if it all was true
2020-04-09T23:39:52 < Steffanx> with the bad masks
2020-04-09T23:40:15 < Steffanx> in dutchland it was 1.3 million
2020-04-09T23:40:20 < kakinull> yes... and I mean that was like 2weeks ago?
2020-04-09T23:40:34 < Steffanx> something like that
2020-04-09T23:40:48 < kakinull> I wonder if funland had order already placed by then
2020-04-09T23:42:43 < kakinull> mask were actually deemed sub-surgical filtering level
2020-04-09T23:43:45 < kakinull> or something.. basically all those masks are sent to nursing homes.. which is good at least
2020-04-09T23:47:35 < specing> When are they going to start producing masks locally?
2020-04-09T23:48:44 < Steffanx> WIP
2020-04-09T23:50:49 < specing> industry 5.0 :P
2020-04-09T23:57:32 < kakinull> specing: nobody knows how to make proper plastic fibre filters
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2020-04-09T23:58:29 < kakinull> filters are just very small PP fibres
2020-04-09T23:58:55 < kakinull> there is PP in stock for sure it's used for all kind of infra shiet
--- Day changed Fri Apr 10 2020
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2020-04-10T00:26:43 < Laurenceb> https://www.bitchute.com/video/B6poA5NPMVw7/
2020-04-10T00:27:13 < Laurenceb> after watching this video, you will petrol bomb a 5g base station
2020-04-10T00:29:14 < Laurenceb> inb4 britbong gov shuts down bitchute
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2020-04-10T00:57:57 < Laurenceb> dead in here
2020-04-10T00:58:04 < Laurenceb> everyone got covid-19
2020-04-10T00:58:10 < mawk> yes
2020-04-10T00:59:07 < Laurenceb> usa #1 for deaths
2020-04-10T00:59:22 < Laurenceb> U.S.A. ! U.S.A. !
2020-04-10T01:00:01 < mawk> "we've got good numbers, very good numbers, really the best numbers in the world, you will see that it will go to zero in no time"
2020-04-10T01:00:14 < Laurenceb> lol
2020-04-10T01:00:21 < kakinull> david icke :]
2020-04-10T01:01:29 < Laurenceb> whole uk media is reeeeing over his videos now lmao
2020-04-10T01:01:39 < Laurenceb> ppl have been petrol bombing 5g base stations
2020-04-10T01:03:40 < Laurenceb> apparently just encountering his videos causes petrol bombing
2020-04-10T01:06:25 < mawk> « Icke: Reports of my madness have been greatly exaggerated »
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2020-04-10T01:06:28 < mawk> lol
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2020-04-10T01:11:28 < kakinull> Laurenceb: when does he get to the point?
2020-04-10T01:11:30 < Laurenceb> doubt.jpg
2020-04-10T01:11:38 < Laurenceb> lol probably never
2020-04-10T01:13:54 < kakinull> is there any sources for the claims he throws there?
2020-04-10T01:14:00 < mawk> icke ?
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2020-04-10T01:14:02 < mawk> he's a madman
2020-04-10T01:14:05 < mawk> why are you listening to that
2020-04-10T01:14:21 < kakinull> there is always "this guy that had proven that this is this"
2020-04-10T01:14:34 < kakinull> throw some names
2020-04-10T01:14:38 < mawk> he says he's the son of god, why would you even begin to consider believing what he says 
2020-04-10T01:14:44 < kakinull> ah
2020-04-10T01:14:50 < kakinull> for amusement
2020-04-10T01:15:02 < mawk> you need your special helmet
2020-04-10T01:15:07 < mawk> otherwise he will get into your brain
2020-04-10T01:15:11 < mawk> you're not prepared for that
2020-04-10T01:15:50 < mawk> first, remember that god doesn't exist and space is a big void, then tell yourself that all of our existences are worthless
2020-04-10T01:15:53 < mawk> then you can listen to him
2020-04-10T01:17:38 < kakinull> I'm brainwash resistant
2020-04-10T01:18:11 < kakinull> but I stopped watching because it's 2+ hours of rambling
2020-04-10T01:18:18 < mawk> lol
2020-04-10T01:19:41 < kakinull> he just claims a thing and then jumps to next thing
2020-04-10T01:21:39 < qyx> like our new prime minister
2020-04-10T01:21:55 < qyx> but better than the previous one, he was telling consistent lies
2020-04-10T01:21:58 < kakinull> I know some of things he say have a truth in them.. it's how it works. you take pieces of truth and then form some outrageous claim around it
2020-04-10T01:22:42 < qyx> the new one is simply disoriented, but at least no lies
2020-04-10T01:24:36 < kakinull> "forced misinterpretation"
2020-04-10T01:26:58 < kakinull> do english have word for it
2020-04-10T01:28:12 < kakinull> if you deliberatelly misinterpretate something in order to support your view
2020-04-10T01:30:18 < qyx> you can check https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_cognitive_biases
2020-04-10T01:31:31 < qyx> maybe https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Confirmation_bias
2020-04-10T01:31:51 < kakinull> anchoring/focalism at least
2020-04-10T01:33:57 < kakinull>  Base rate neglect
2020-04-10T01:35:52 < karlp> foudn 2 errors in g4 ref man already.
2020-04-10T01:36:03 < karlp> at least they're "minor" and "obvious"
2020-04-10T01:39:05 < qyx> heh
2020-04-10T01:41:46  * qyx playing with https://www.thirtythreeforty.net/posts/2019/12/my-business-card-runs-linux/
2020-04-10T01:47:21 < zyp> how much ram was in that thing again?
2020-04-10T01:47:33 < qyx> 32M
2020-04-10T01:47:49 < karlp> the fic200 or whatsit has 64MB and is pin compat
2020-04-10T01:48:30 < karlp> it just doesn't feel like enough of an upgrade over the wifi socs.
2020-04-10T01:48:47 < qyx> I am doing a remote openocd with it
2020-04-10T01:48:52 < qyx> or at least I am trying to
2020-04-10T01:49:18 < qyx> openocd works at a stunning speed of 1.6KB/s
2020-04-10T01:51:25 < karlp> you're doing remote bitbang?
2020-04-10T01:55:02 < catphish> i really should not drink, then spend 2 hours talking to my ex girlfriend, then realise it's the birthday of my deceased brother, too much emotions for one evening!
2020-04-10T01:55:36  * catphish gets back to something useful
2020-04-10T01:55:52 < qyx> no, local bitbang using sysfs-gpio
2020-04-10T01:56:40 < karlp> fuckkign json not allowing , after last element in a list
2020-04-10T01:56:47 < karlp> lua is so much fucking nicer
2020-04-10T01:56:56 < qyx> idk what other options are feasible when connecting SWD to a linux soc
2020-04-10T01:57:17 < zyp> karlp, that's pissing me off too
2020-04-10T01:57:44 < zyp> part of the reason why I prefer yaml nowadays
2020-04-10T01:58:07 < karlp> eh, I find yaml to be too open,
2020-04-10T01:59:13 < zyp> I used to hate yaml, then I had to use it for some shit, and now I've taken a liking to it
2020-04-10T01:59:19 < zyp> stockholm syndrome perhaps
2020-04-10T01:59:23 < karlp> yeah, if you use it all the time, it's ok, 
2020-04-10T01:59:39 < karlp> but I find the implied "maybe this, might be that" syntax to be dreadful if y ou're only using it occasionally
2020-04-10T01:59:46 < zyp> I certainly doesn't use it all of the time, but I use it some of the time
2020-04-10T01:59:50 < zyp> yeah
2020-04-10T01:59:50 < karlp> like, json's quirky but it's pretty obvious
2020-04-10T02:01:52 < zyp> the whole trick to yaml is just learning to distinguish lists (arrays?) from objects (maps? dicts?)
2020-04-10T02:02:08 < karlp> yeah, json helps with taht, yaml's "magic"
2020-04-10T02:05:42 < zyp> still not too hard
2020-04-10T02:07:42 < zyp> does the line start with a dash? you've got a list entry
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2020-04-10T02:08:04 < zyp> do you have a name and a colon? you've got a map entry
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2020-04-10T02:16:01 < qyx> I am starting to think openwrt is much better env than buildroot
2020-04-10T02:16:06 < rajkosto> it is
2020-04-10T02:16:09 < qyx> despite being optimized for a different purpose
2020-04-10T02:16:24 < rajkosto> openwrt is dope for any linux with squashfs/ubi
2020-04-10T02:17:58 < zyp> and then there's openembedded/yocto
2020-04-10T02:17:58 < qyx> I shoudl examine the patches and port them to openwrt instead
2020-04-10T02:18:13 < qyx> otherwise the thing is not going to be working befofre I die of corona
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2020-04-10T02:20:46 < qyx> I am getting thins like 
2020-04-10T02:20:47 < qyx> dnsmasq: failed to change group-id to nogroup: Function not implemented
2020-04-10T02:20:58 < qyx> or seteuid failed
2020-04-10T02:21:02 < zyp> openembedded is kinda neat, kinda too fucking huge
2020-04-10T02:21:29 < zyp> and then yocto builds on that, adding even more stuff
2020-04-10T02:22:03 < zyp> and it's a bit unclear to me what yocto adds and why it's useful
2020-04-10T02:22:11 < zyp> when I dicked around with it I used plain openembedded
2020-04-10T02:23:37 < qyx> idk never used yocto
2020-04-10T02:23:56 < qyx> but many bsp/sdk packages are made for yocto
2020-04-10T02:24:05 < zyp> yeah
2020-04-10T02:24:15 < mawk> did you forget to enable important things in the .config qyx ?
2020-04-10T02:24:19 < zyp> openembedded has this whole layers concept, which is neat
2020-04-10T02:24:32 < zyp> keeps stuff separate
2020-04-10T02:25:22 < zyp> i.e. you can put all your stuff in one layer that you stuff in between other layers, keeping code you maintain separate from code other people maintain
2020-04-10T02:25:50 < zyp> and vendors can publish BSP layers
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2020-04-10T02:28:29 < qyx> dropbear[126]: Exit (root): Error changing user group
2020-04-10T02:28:31 < qyx> I'll kill them
2020-04-10T02:29:34 < qyx> mawk: the buildroot config is mostly defaults
2020-04-10T02:29:36 < zyp> shit like that is why I «like» rpi
2020-04-10T02:30:12 < zyp> rpi is so ubiquitous that I can just find a working readymade image for whatever I want to do, instead of dicking around with building my own
2020-04-10T02:31:00 < karlp> qyx: rajkosto  eh :) I love openwrt, but I've sometimes gone for buildroot just because it had less magic extra bits, so I could see all the parts a bit easier :)
2020-04-10T02:31:05 < qyx> yes but rpi fails after a few months of uptime because of the sdcard rootfs
2020-04-10T02:31:39 < qyx> rpi images are full featured distros not suitable for embedded
2020-04-10T02:31:41 < karlp> but once I've figured out how it hangs together, yeah, openwrt totally.
2020-04-10T02:32:05 < karlp> current "other" project is getting sunxi on spi-nor to work properly. openwrt only supports them via sd cards at the moment.
2020-04-10T02:32:14 < zyp> qyx, all of them?
2020-04-10T02:33:43 < qyx> not sure, I have never used such image
2020-04-10T02:34:17 < qyx> mhm, it is some weird problem nobody encounters
2020-04-10T02:34:20 < qyx> even google fails
2020-04-10T02:34:44 < zyp> I'm not talking about running a plain raspbian or whatever
2020-04-10T02:35:00 < qyx> the thirtythreeforty guy must have disabled some ~unneeded feature
2020-04-10T02:35:06 < karlp> music thyme: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I5WU0OHbSFQ
2020-04-10T02:35:20 < zyp> if I were actually deploying something serious with rpi or some shit, I'd probably look into balena or something
2020-04-10T02:35:57 < zyp> put my shit in a container, keep it separate from the shit it's running on, less worries about managing updates
2020-04-10T02:36:06 < mawk> well from your errors something is clearly missing zyp 
2020-04-10T02:36:17 < qyx> those are my errors
2020-04-10T02:36:18 < zyp> mawk, not zyp
2020-04-10T02:36:21 < mawk> ah yes sorry
2020-04-10T02:36:25 < mawk> seteuid/setgrp/and all that family of syscalls returns ENOTIMP
2020-04-10T02:36:52 < mawk> setgid rather
2020-04-10T02:36:52 < qyx> yeah I am investigating linux config now
2020-04-10T02:37:13 < mawk> maybe it's libc mismatch tho
2020-04-10T02:37:34 < mawk> because the real syscalls are twofolds, there's the classic version with 16 bit UIDs, and set *32() version with 32 bits UIDs, and the libc is supposed to select the right one
2020-04-10T02:38:01 < mawk> but I don't see how that could happen, buildroot builds the libc as well right
2020-04-10T02:38:07 < qyx> CONFIG_MULTIUSER:
2020-04-10T02:38:09 < qyx> here we go
2020-04-10T02:38:11 < mawk> a
2020-04-10T02:38:12 < qyx> disable
2020-04-10T02:38:14 < qyx> why the hell
2020-04-10T02:38:17 < mawk> nice default value
2020-04-10T02:38:19 < mawk> lol
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2020-04-10T02:40:46 < Laurenceb> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PonYtJo3YaA
2020-04-10T02:40:50 < qyx> even posix message queues are disabled, sysvipc, swap support
2020-04-10T02:41:01 < mawk> did you run defconfig ?
2020-04-10T02:41:05 < zyp> who needs that
2020-04-10T02:41:06 < mawk> not that I'm an expert on buildroot
2020-04-10T02:41:15 < qyx> I stole the configs from that guy
2020-04-10T02:41:18 < mawk> but I assume make arm_defconfig would have the sane defaults decided by the Linux people
2020-04-10T02:41:20 < mawk> ah
2020-04-10T02:41:22 < mawk> that explains it
2020-04-10T02:41:26 < qyx> apparently he innovated much
2020-04-10T02:41:28 < mawk> lol
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2020-04-10T03:21:41 < jadew> https://gothamist.com/news/mass-burials-hart-island-increase-fivefold-covid-19-death-toll-skyrockets
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2020-04-10T04:03:59 < Laurenceb> ywlts the muricandozer
2020-04-10T04:04:29 < Laurenceb> death camp: new york
2020-04-10T04:06:51 < aandrew> damn, I had to look up hart island, I was suere it was some fucking tropical island or someshit
2020-04-10T04:06:55 < aandrew> but new york, jesus
2020-04-10T04:11:11 < Laurenceb> holocaust 2.0
2020-04-10T04:11:42 < Laurenceb>  *Iranians laughing*
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2020-04-10T04:51:59 < jly> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UWoQMuzeA-g
2020-04-10T04:52:10 < jly> Australia is now owned by china
2020-04-10T04:56:19 < mawk> lol
2020-04-10T04:59:27 -!- catphish [~user@unaffiliated/catphish] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds]
2020-04-10T05:01:13 < jly> Wǒ ài Běijīng Tiān'ānmén,
2020-04-10T05:01:13 < jly> Tiān'ānmén shang tàiyang sheng;
2020-04-10T05:01:13 < jly> Wěidà lǐngxiù Máo zhǔxí,
2020-04-10T05:01:13 < jly> Zhǐyǐn wǒmen xiàngqián jìn.
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2020-04-10T05:37:41 < aandrew> https://www.euronews.com/2020/03/24/priests-give-communion-with-shared-spoon-as-romania-covid-19-cases-grow
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2020-04-10T10:08:42 < PaulFertser> karlp: I think one person got a sunxi board fully running OpenWrt from on-board spi flash with my guidance, I hoped he would publish instructions.
2020-04-10T10:10:46 < PaulFertser> karlp: it didn't took much
2020-04-10T10:16:32 < PaulFertser> karlp: https://forum.openwrt.org/t/xunlong-orange-pi-r1-boot-from-flash/57700
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2020-04-10T10:53:11 < upgrdman> gcc pros: on 64bit windows everything works for me, but on 32bit windows, it looks like gcc mangles me dll function names, added "@8" "@16" etc to them. any idea why?
2020-04-10T10:53:32 < upgrdman> on 64bit i get this, which is good:
2020-04-10T10:53:33 < upgrdman> file EasyD2XX.dll
2020-04-10T10:53:33 < upgrdman> EasyD2XX.dll: PE32+ executable (DLL) (console) x86-64, for MS Windows
2020-04-10T10:53:33 < upgrdman> nm EasyD2XX.dll | grep Java
2020-04-10T10:53:33 < upgrdman> 000000006af813d0 T Java_com_farrellf_d2xx_EasyD2XX_getDevices
2020-04-10T10:53:45 < upgrdman> on 32-bit i get this, which is bad:
2020-04-10T10:53:54 < upgrdman> file EasyD2XX.dll
2020-04-10T10:53:54 < upgrdman> EasyD2XX.dll: PE32 executable (DLL) (console) Intel 80386, for MS Windows
2020-04-10T10:53:54 < upgrdman> nm EasyD2XX.dll | grep Java
2020-04-10T10:53:54 < upgrdman> 6b1814f0 T _Java_com_farrellf_d2xx_EasyD2XX_getDevices@8
2020-04-10T10:54:10 < upgrdman> notice the trailing "@8" in the function name
2020-04-10T10:57:56 < jpa-> upgrdman: it's related to the calling convention
2020-04-10T10:58:14 < upgrdman> ya how do i remove the @xx?
2020-04-10T10:58:23 < qyx> strreplace?
2020-04-10T10:58:37 < qyx> sry
2020-04-10T10:58:52 < jpa-> _...@8 is __stdcall, what calling convention do you want?
2020-04-10T10:59:18 < upgrdman> hmm. "-Wl,--kill-at" fixes it
2020-04-10T10:59:21 < jpa-> if you want only leading underscore, that's __cdecl
2020-04-10T11:00:13 < jpa-> --kill-at uses __cdecl decoration while leaving the calling convention unchanged, which could lead to stack corruption later on
2020-04-10T11:00:35 < upgrdman> o
2020-04-10T11:00:45 < upgrdman> what --foo should i use?
2020-04-10T11:01:16 < jpa-> __cdecl should be default, maybe you have something that is changing it to __stdcall
2020-04-10T11:01:33 < upgrdman> hmm
2020-04-10T11:01:38 < upgrdman> "-Wl,--add-stdcall-alias" also fixes it for me
2020-04-10T11:01:50 < upgrdman> wtf
2020-04-10T11:02:54 < jpa-> make sure you don't have -mrtd option
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2020-04-10T11:03:33 < upgrdman> i dont
2020-04-10T11:03:39 < upgrdman> my exact command is "gcc jni/com_farrellf_d2xx_EasyD2XX.c jni/ftd2xx-32bit.lib -Wl,--add-stdcall-alias -I"C:/Program Files/AdoptOpenJDK/jdk-8.0.242.08-hotspot/include" -I"C:/Program Files/AdoptOpenJDK/jdk-8.0.242.08-hotspot/include/win32" -shared -o EasyD2XX.dll"
2020-04-10T11:06:08 < jpa-> but i guess stdcall-alias is fine if you are declaring the functions as stdcall on the JNI side
2020-04-10T11:07:13 < upgrdman> hmm ya
2020-04-10T11:07:15 < upgrdman> "Both the native methods and the interface APIs follow the standard library-calling convention on a given platform. For example, UNIX systems use the C calling convention, while Win32 systems use __stdcall."
2020-04-10T11:07:47 < upgrdman> i wonder why 64bit windows didn't require "-Wl,--add-stdcall-alias" but 32bit windows required it
2020-04-10T11:08:00 < jpa-> 64-bit windows got rid of the ancient calling convention mess
2020-04-10T11:08:33 < upgrdman> ? 64bit windows is all __stdcall ?
2020-04-10T11:08:49 < jpa-> it's all "Microsoft x64 calling convention"
2020-04-10T11:09:13 < upgrdman> o. and i guess its compatible with __stdcall then, or i just got lucky
2020-04-10T11:09:24 < jpa-> so they don't need the @ name mangling to separate the different type functions
2020-04-10T11:09:38 < jpa-> nah, it is the only 64-bit calling convention on windows, so JNI surely uses it also
2020-04-10T11:09:48 < upgrdman> ok
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2020-04-10T11:12:15 < jpa-> in a surprising twist, "stdcall" is somewhat standard - __cdecl of GCC is subtly different of __cdecl of MSVC
2020-04-10T11:13:12 < upgrdman> bbl. thanks for the help
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2020-04-10T11:39:36 < Steffanx> lol microsoft. 
2020-04-10T11:40:05 < Steffanx> Each time I press my left key, my cursor would jump to the top left of my screen. I had no clue why.
2020-04-10T11:40:17 < Steffanx> It turns out Paint does that -_-
2020-04-10T11:41:58 < Steffanx> It show how can keep being in focus even while it's not. Captures your key presses and moves the cursor.
2020-04-10T11:42:00 < Steffanx> Such malware
2020-04-10T11:51:40 < Steffanx> Somehow*
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2020-04-10T12:03:50 < Thorn> rocketcams from yesterday's launch https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GKgswYMAXS4
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2020-04-10T13:14:59 < mawk> what is this DigiD bullshit Steffanx 
2020-04-10T13:15:03 < mawk> I just want to log in to my insurance account
2020-04-10T13:15:42 < mawk> to create the account they called me to spell out an activation code
2020-04-10T13:15:47 < mawk> ..in Dutch
2020-04-10T13:16:01 < mawk> *super fast* EEN TWEE NUL VIER VIER NUL TWEE EEN
2020-04-10T13:16:04 < mawk> then it hangs up
2020-04-10T13:16:14 < Steffanx> https://nl.wikipedia.org/wiki/DigiD enjoy the read :P
2020-04-10T13:16:37 < mawk> this is 1984
2020-04-10T13:16:44 < mawk> how is that mandatory
2020-04-10T13:16:50 < mawk> same shit as mandatory BSN
2020-04-10T13:16:55 < mawk> we're getting spied on
2020-04-10T13:19:35 < mawk> and then I can't even log in yet, they send a code by mail
2020-04-10T13:19:48 < mawk> how am I going to pay the doctor
2020-04-10T13:20:07 < mawk> with Corona the postman is probably very delayed also
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2020-04-10T13:26:10 < Steffanx> The system isnt mandatory. Your insurance company made it mandatory, probably because its easier for some people.
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2020-04-10T14:06:05 < mawk> easier for their CEO to mine my data yes
2020-04-10T14:06:46 < mawk> what's easier about 3-FA for which you need to wait 5 days to create an account
2020-04-10T14:08:16 < Steffanx> What is 5 days in a lifetime?
2020-04-10T14:08:45 < mawk> a very very long time when you have a doctor harrassing me to get paid 
2020-04-10T14:09:16 < mawk> they said 10 days and I get the insurance card, it's been like a month
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2020-04-10T14:20:00 < Steffanx> :P
2020-04-10T14:23:07 < dongs> sup pros
2020-04-10T14:23:57 < mawk> hi
2020-04-10T14:29:32 < jly> https://www.coolthings.com.au/duncan-the-drinking-bird.html
2020-04-10T14:30:17 < jly> going to try for gift message YOU'RE A FUCKING IDIOT
2020-04-10T14:30:19 < dongs> thats a nice shop page
2020-04-10T14:31:50 < mawk> you love drinking birds jly 
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2020-04-10T15:02:56 < jpa-> hmm, feels like quarantine has increased the amount of people seeking free support through github issue reports a lot - maybe coworkers ignore their emails already
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2020-04-10T15:15:52 < Steffanx> hello jpa- hows is the day doing?
2020-04-10T15:16:44 < jpa-> lazily, i decided not to work today
2020-04-10T15:17:06 < jpa-> celebrating zombie jesus with a pie
2020-04-10T15:30:20 < dongs> so uh
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2020-04-10T15:47:25 < dongs> holy shit fuck git
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2020-04-10T15:55:18 < mawk> do you hide jokes in your unit tests too ?
2020-04-10T15:55:24 < mawk>         $simCard = factory(SimCard::class)->create([
2020-04-10T15:55:26 < mawk>             'iccid' => $iccid,
2020-04-10T15:55:28 < mawk>             'operator' => 'mawk Telecom®',
2020-04-10T15:55:30 < mawk>             'plan' => 'Ultimate Enterprise Cloud™'
2020-04-10T15:55:32 < mawk>         ]);
2020-04-10T15:55:37 < Cracki> does windows still have the "briefcase"
2020-04-10T15:55:50 < mawk> when I read my colleague's code the unit tests are full of 'stroopwafel' and such
2020-04-10T15:55:59 < mawk> like on windows 95 ?
2020-04-10T15:56:03 < mawk> maybe if you look hard enough
2020-04-10T15:56:04 < Cracki> <3 w95
2020-04-10T15:56:07 < mawk> lol
2020-04-10T15:56:21 < Thorn> Illinois: blacks 14% population, 41% COV deaths
2020-04-10T15:56:22 < Cracki> stroopwafels, I hear that a lot
2020-04-10T15:56:31 < Thorn> Chincago: 30% and 72% resp.
2020-04-10T15:56:33 < Cracki> 14 do 41
2020-04-10T15:56:38 < Thorn> -n
2020-04-10T15:56:51 < Cracki> lift the quarantine
2020-04-10T15:56:53 < Thorn> Michigan: 14%, 40%
2020-04-10T15:57:24 < Thorn> Milwaukee: 26%, 81%
2020-04-10T15:57:28 < Cracki> >was deprecated (although not removed) in Windows 8 and completely disabled (but still present and accessible via modification of the Windows Registry) in Windows 10[2] until it was finally removed in Windows 10 build 14942.
2020-04-10T15:57:56 < mawk> :(
2020-04-10T16:00:24 < Cracki> wait, php can do call()->method? that sounds like a recent feature
2020-04-10T16:00:37 < Cracki> shit like that used to be impossible thanks to grammar
2020-04-10T16:03:38 < Thorn> can you do $arr['a']['b']?
2020-04-10T16:04:42 < Thorn> thank god I never needed php professionally
2020-04-10T16:05:21 < Cracki> I think that works
2020-04-10T16:05:41 < Cracki> php keeps moving. it hasn't grown list comprehensions yet...
2020-04-10T16:06:10 < Cracki> I remember when they fixed the bug when allocating more than 16 MB of memory...
2020-04-10T16:06:23 < Cracki> guess what, they used single floats for integer length
2020-04-10T16:08:45 < specing> how the fuck did PHP grow to be so popular
2020-04-10T16:08:55 < Cracki> low barrier to entry
2020-04-10T16:09:06 < Cracki> it's basically html with inline code
2020-04-10T16:09:25 < Cracki> everyone and their dog could start using php hosts
2020-04-10T16:10:34 < Cracki> next best thing was perl and that required more IQ points and had a slightly higher barrier to entry
2020-04-10T16:11:02 < Cracki> js is so popular because everyone already has a browser, and every browser lets you mess around in a console
2020-04-10T16:11:22 < Cracki> think of any computer that gives you a programming prompt
2020-04-10T16:11:48 < Cracki> all the computers that gave you BASIC
2020-04-10T16:12:26 < aandrew> damn. found an edn "design ideas" archive but it's pretty crappy
2020-04-10T16:12:32 < aandrew> fucking edn
2020-04-10T16:12:35 < Thorn> gone are the days when teenagers learned z80 assembly on their micros (those who found it more fun than games, of course)
2020-04-10T16:13:51 < Cracki> the programming books I had as a kid were absolute rubbish, also there was no adult to answer questions
2020-04-10T16:14:26 < aandrew> Thorn: usborne made some of their 80s computing books for kids free: https://usborne.com/browse-books/features/computer-and-coding-books/
2020-04-10T16:14:39 < aandrew> the "how to make computer controlled robots" was one I'd taken out from the library dozens of times
2020-04-10T16:15:01 < Cracki> a BASIC book for some kid computer, made barely any sense, a kids book for pascal and delphi, barely made any sense (I hate cookbooks), then I wanted C/C++ and the dumbass clerk at the store gave me a 800 page tome that explains Visual C++ 6
2020-04-10T16:17:27 < Streaker> with the words "Turbo" and "Unleashed" in the title?
2020-04-10T16:18:33 < aandrew> basic (on c64) was okay, pascal was shit, a pirated copy of microsoft quick c is what got me really going. same with pirated assembler for c64
2020-04-10T16:18:58 < aandrew> I *won* a full copy of watcom C++ (the compiler) which was kind of cool
2020-04-10T16:19:54 < Cracki> turbo pascal on dos, that was fun
2020-04-10T16:20:36 < Cracki> never quite figured out how to make graphics properly. nobody explained double buffering to me, and the integrated help seems to have skipped steps
2020-04-10T16:21:08 < karlp> PaulFertser: yeah, I've got uboot on spi, just wrestling with the rest of the image generation portions. thanks for the link, I'm sur eit has some good bits in it
2020-04-10T16:21:27 < karlp> part of it has been figuring what the "right" way of upstreaming support for the unpopulated spi flash though :)
2020-04-10T16:22:27 < PaulFertser> karlp: we discussed it on #openwrt, the result is working well but I have no idea how to make it not generate ext4 image for sysupgrade but generate for sdcard.
2020-04-10T16:26:49 < karlp> I ran into other "issues" as usual, nothing blocking, just endless paper cuts :) 
2020-04-10T16:33:20 < jly> A 23 year old woman came in 11 months into her pregnancy and said "I don't want my stupid baby anymore, kill it" and the doctor said "okay" and he put jumper cables up her baby hole and connected them to a car battery and let it run for six days straight
2020-04-10T16:35:12 < Steffanx> 11th month July?!
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2020-04-10T16:42:42 < aandrew> yeah my friend and I had a book on the VGA, we spent hours photocopying every page in that book at his dad's office one night and learned a lot from building little graphics programs
2020-04-10T16:45:24 < mawk> I found that out myself too in 2018, hope is not lost
2020-04-10T16:47:42 < karlp> man st's slowe than normal today
2020-04-10T16:48:27 < karlp> heh, l5 datasheet is up to rev3 already
2020-04-10T16:49:21 < Thorn> ambulances with CoV patients forming a queue before a hospital https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N8zewM9iGdE
2020-04-10T16:50:08 < karlp> still talks about "sram broken into three chunks" , then only talks abotu two
2020-04-10T16:55:51 < Thorn> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R-PdPtqw78k
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2020-04-10T17:00:46 < Cracki> "rumrussen". russians doing russian things
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2020-04-10T17:09:59 < jadew> my display is back to life
2020-04-10T17:10:18 < jadew> things are back to their natural order
2020-04-10T17:17:07 < karlp> nice, l5 errata sheet is up to rev4 already.  better hope you never get rev A silicon
2020-04-10T17:23:20 < karlp> "The SDMMC1SMEN bit of the RCC_AHB2SMENR register cannot be modified with byte and half-word accesses
2020-04-10T17:23:22 < karlp> to the register. Only word access is effective
2020-04-10T17:23:25 < karlp> just that bit. nice one.
2020-04-10T17:23:55 < aandrew> I thought eveything was dword anyway?
2020-04-10T17:24:52 < karlp> "On UFBGA132 and WLCSP81 packages, the following GPIOs are not bonded"
2020-04-10T17:25:04 < karlp> (fixed in later revisions)
2020-04-10T17:25:09 < aandrew> wut lol
2020-04-10T17:25:16 < aandrew> forgot to plug it in
2020-04-10T17:25:20 < karlp> yep :)
2020-04-10T17:25:46 < karlp> "Wrong data read from a busy NAND memory" workaround: don't go as fast
2020-04-10T17:26:39 < karlp> better be careful using the fmc too, it wil insert extra reads at the end, and then just not use them. so "no impact" on the l5 side, but might have an impact on the other end if it'
2020-04-10T17:26:43 < karlp> s not actualyl just some memory
2020-04-10T17:27:02 < aandrew> yeah I ran into that on another part IIRC
2020-04-10T17:27:08 < aandrew> don't use FMC for MMIO
2020-04-10T17:27:18 < aandrew> or at least be careful
2020-04-10T17:27:47 < karlp> some of these errata are super niche, some people who were developing on these parts early must have had a fun time
2020-04-10T17:32:02 < karlp> The result of an ADC conversion done more than 1 ms later than the previous ADC conversion or ADC calibration
2020-04-10T17:32:04 < karlp> might be incorrect.
2020-04-10T17:32:06 < karlp> thanks
2020-04-10T17:32:41 < karlp> there's some nasty stuff here
2020-04-10T17:33:15 < karlp> The end-of-conversion event of an ADC instance disturbs the reference voltage, causing a conversion error to any other ADC instances with conversion in progress
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2020-04-10T17:35:14 < aandrew> man tracking that shit down must have been hell
2020-04-10T17:36:00 < dongs> just wait for improved GD32 clones
2020-04-10T17:36:03 < dongs> with all those bugs fixed
2020-04-10T17:36:18 < Cracki> open silicon
2020-04-10T17:36:19 < karlp> china trustzone :)
2020-04-10T17:36:34 < aandrew> is GD32 the one where all the flash is actually separate die?
2020-04-10T17:36:40 < aandrew> cant' remember now
2020-04-10T17:36:41 < Cracki> maybe some nerds would actually read the verilog or whatever they use, and run simulations on some BOINC cluster
2020-04-10T17:36:56 < PaulFertser> Thorn: the spot guy has one finger bandaged already
2020-04-10T17:36:58 < dongs> aandrew: ya
2020-04-10T17:37:04 < dongs> and runs from shadow sram
2020-04-10T17:37:20 < aandrew> aha
2020-04-10T17:37:27 < kakimir> aandrew: separate yes
2020-04-10T17:37:34 < Cracki> "runs from shadow sram"? like a cache over the flash... or complete flash mirrored in some sram?
2020-04-10T17:37:44 < dongs> the latter
2020-04-10T17:37:47 < Cracki> shiet
2020-04-10T17:37:55 < kakimir> dope man
2020-04-10T17:37:56 < kakimir> dope
2020-04-10T17:38:05 < dongs> at least on <= 128k parts or something, on larger flash it pages stuff in/out
2020-04-10T17:38:06 < aandrew> that'd be nice and fast after startup
2020-04-10T17:38:12 < dongs> but the GD32F103 dclones with 128k are all sram
2020-04-10T17:38:28 < Cracki> absolute mad lads
2020-04-10T17:38:44 < dongs> i still donno what they did to clone all the stm peripherals
2020-04-10T17:38:54 < aandrew> does anyone else "say" GD32 as "god damned 32"
2020-04-10T17:38:54 < dongs> just straight up stole IP from somewhere or clean-engineered them
2020-04-10T17:39:10 < emeb> rooms full of cheap chinese engineers typing furiously.
2020-04-10T17:39:21 < Cracki> good 32, god 32
2020-04-10T17:39:58 < Cracki> this can't be a clean room reimplementation
2020-04-10T17:40:33 < aandrew> no it won't be cleanroom
2020-04-10T17:40:37 < dongs> they did fix i2c bugs
2020-04-10T17:40:43 < Cracki> so they got their hands on sources, legal or not
2020-04-10T17:40:44 < dongs> and added some extra peripherals
2020-04-10T17:41:03 < dongs> they're actually a legit ARM licensee
2020-04-10T17:41:20 < Cracki> did ST even make their own peripherals for f103 or did they buy those from somewhere
2020-04-10T17:41:21 < dongs> but if that was the case they could easily use all the ARM IP
2020-04-10T17:41:23 < aandrew> that's like nuvoton, they are legit ARM too, but their peripherals are complete garbage
2020-04-10T17:41:33 < Cracki> ye sure, the arm core can be legit for all I care
2020-04-10T17:41:42 < dongs> yea but i mean arm has perupherals too
2020-04-10T17:41:48 < dongs> they have a shitty timer and stuff
2020-04-10T17:41:51 < emeb> it's garbage, but it's CHEAP garbage!
2020-04-10T17:42:07 < aandrew> yes, they have NVIC and SYSTICK and so on, but I don't know anyone that uses anything else really. USB is someone else, ETH is omeone else
2020-04-10T17:42:08 < dongs> jewoton
2020-04-10T17:42:26 < dongs> one of ST parts that got eol'd before you could evne buy it used arm periphs
2020-04-10T17:42:31 < dongs> it was some sensor hub shit
2020-04-10T17:42:43 < aandrew> hah
2020-04-10T17:42:45 < dongs> SPI, i2c, TIMer and UART weer all ARM ip
2020-04-10T17:42:54 < dongs> and m0 or m3 core iirc
2020-04-10T17:43:44 < aandrew> it'd be interesting to see the HDL for real ARM IP core or real USB IP core. I bet it's so generalized and macro-ized so it can fit with damn near any flow that it's unreadable
2020-04-10T17:44:35 < karlp> use v8m they said, just switch the -mcpu flag they said
2020-04-10T17:44:50 < jadew> Thorn, 11 views - how did you get that video so fast? is that your account?
2020-04-10T17:45:57 < aandrew> he's subscribed 
2020-04-10T17:46:04 < karlp> jadew: coutners below 300 or so are just "here's what it was once, we'll update it later"
2020-04-10T17:46:12 < jadew> ah
2020-04-10T17:46:18 < Cracki> first video on the account. wat reason to subscribe before the first video
2020-04-10T17:46:18 < aandrew> I'm not a huge fan of jamie, it seems a lot of hsi stuff is just bragging about the shit he's got 
2020-04-10T17:46:19 < karlp> viral stuiff can have thousands before the coutners get udpated
2020-04-10T17:46:26 < jadew> I thought it might be his... there's only one video uploaded on that account
2020-04-10T17:46:35 < karlp> I just mean in general,
2020-04-10T17:46:35 < jadew> what Cracki said
2020-04-10T17:46:53 < Cracki> maybe someone on russian social media shared it
2020-04-10T17:46:54 < karlp> the low counters shouldn't be taken as any sort of absolute number
2020-04-10T18:01:16 < Thorn> this is my channel https://www.youtube.com/channel/UC6RE0PZ6XHK-O5_e11WyF1Q
2020-04-10T18:01:48 < Thorn> the link to that video was shared in a telegram chat
2020-04-10T18:01:51 < Cracki> people usually promote their soundcloud
2020-04-10T18:02:14 < kakimir> what is the deal with jlcpcb
2020-04-10T18:02:30 < kakimir> just order from them that's the deal+
2020-04-10T18:02:32 < kakimir> ?
2020-04-10T18:02:50 < emeb> what about 'em? I've used JLCPCB and they're fine. 
2020-04-10T18:03:00 < kakimir> pricing
2020-04-10T18:03:04 < emeb> cheap
2020-04-10T18:03:14 < kakimir> I mean practically nothing
2020-04-10T18:03:32 < emeb> sometimes the silkscreen is a bit flaky and doesn't get perfect coverage.
2020-04-10T18:03:50 < kakimir> what else is flaky?
2020-04-10T18:04:02 < kakimir> their website at least
2020-04-10T18:04:10 < emeb> works for me
2020-04-10T18:04:21 < kakimir> it works and it's what is expected
2020-04-10T18:04:31 < Thorn> oh look it made the news https://moslenta.ru/news/pered-bolnicei-v-moskve-poyavilas-probka-iz-skorykh-s-zarazhennymi-koronavirusom-10-04-2020.htm
2020-04-10T18:05:30 < emeb> fake news - there is no covid-19 in Russia - just pneumonia.
2020-04-10T18:06:31 < kakimir> if I order from jlcpcb - who is actually paying my pcb?
2020-04-10T18:07:03 < dongs> winnie the pooh
2020-04-10T18:07:04 < Cracki> little chinese children what did you think
2020-04-10T18:07:28 < kakimir> yes
2020-04-10T18:07:36 < Cracki> they literally grind child teeth into dust and cook their bones to make silkscreen
2020-04-10T18:08:05 < kakimir> that is why it's so flaky
2020-04-10T18:08:21 < kakimir> dongs: what pcb houses you use?
2020-04-10T18:08:32 < Cracki> eh, it actually is that cheap to produce there. shipping likely is too... until it enters europe
2020-04-10T18:08:40 < dongs> allpcb is allright when i dont care about quality
2020-04-10T18:08:52 < dongs> otherwise local guise who do proper silk
2020-04-10T18:09:00 < dongs> allpcb quoted me $70 for 1000 pcbs lol
2020-04-10T18:09:06 < dongs> sure they were 20x20mm but
2020-04-10T18:09:09 < dongs> fucking 70 bucks lmao
2020-04-10T18:09:38 < Cracki> 0.4 m²
2020-04-10T18:10:11 < Cracki> quite a steal
2020-04-10T18:12:08 < kakimir> dongs 6/6mil?
2020-04-10T18:12:19 < kakimir> 2layer or 4?
2020-04-10T18:13:13 < dongs> 2L
2020-04-10T18:13:17 < dongs> it was 180 or something for 4L
2020-04-10T18:14:23 < kakimir> where do you order all boards for you video interface boards?
2020-04-10T18:14:41 < dongs> not at allpcb
2020-04-10T18:15:38 < kakimir> why not?
2020-04-10T18:16:09 < kakimir> oh yes.. quality
2020-04-10T18:16:18 < dongs> correct
2020-04-10T18:17:20 < Ultrasauce> do you specify stackup for that stuff
2020-04-10T18:17:46 < dongs> allpcb? you can request custom stuff in notes.
2020-04-10T18:17:50 < dongs> no idea how much extra it costs
2020-04-10T18:18:05 < dongs> local plce can do wahtever stackup, also impedance matching etc shit
2020-04-10T18:18:20 < dongs> they have predefined stackups for 50/75/120z whatever shit or i can specify my own
2020-04-10T18:19:54 < kakimir> kicad - can I fill only some of the fills?
2020-04-10T18:20:21 < kakimir> ah yes
2020-04-10T18:24:17 < Laurenceb> 959 bongs dead
2020-04-10T18:24:25 < Laurenceb> but usa is number 1
2020-04-10T18:30:12 < Cracki> https://www.ons.gov.uk/peoplepopulationandcommunity/birthsdeathsandmarriages/deaths/bulletins/deathsregisteredweeklyinenglandandwalesprovisional/weekending27march2020
2020-04-10T18:31:04 < Cracki> you're still 95-99% likely to die of anything else
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2020-04-10T18:44:47 < Mangy_Dog> working on a thingy, programmed not rendered video.... https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xlmB6qq8REU
2020-04-10T18:46:48 < Cracki> theremin. picard in futuristic paris, where the musician wanks a dildo to make music
2020-04-10T18:47:21 < Mangy_Dog> :o
2020-04-10T18:56:18 < Cracki> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z0v3zFM5_oQ
2020-04-10T18:57:50 < jadew> Cracki, how did you calculate that?
2020-04-10T18:58:02 < jadew> nvm, afk
2020-04-10T18:58:06 < Cracki> from the 1-5% deaths "with wuflu"
2020-04-10T18:58:20 < Cracki> I assumed that "all" is 100%
2020-04-10T18:58:36 < Cracki> and that people are numbers
2020-04-10T18:58:44 < jadew> so you're saying that in the UK there are 17600 deaths/day
2020-04-10T18:58:57 < Cracki> how did you arrive at that number
2020-04-10T18:58:57 < jadew> to 88k?
2020-04-10T18:59:18 < Cracki> my link is a .gov.uk site
2020-04-10T18:59:22 < jadew> for a 95% rate, with 881 from wuflu
2020-04-10T18:59:25 < Cracki> are you calling them liars?
2020-04-10T18:59:34 < jadew> that means 17k at 100%
2020-04-10T18:59:44 < Cracki> they use weekly numbers
2020-04-10T19:00:08 < jadew> even ignoring the exponential growth.. I still don't see it
2020-04-10T19:00:13 < jadew> I just used the numbers from yesterday
2020-04-10T19:00:13 < Cracki> if you use the exact minute that someone reports the 1000 deaths, you'll have a steep rate
2020-04-10T19:00:33 < jadew> have to go eat
2020-04-10T19:00:35 < jadew> ttyl
2020-04-10T19:00:43 < jadew> I'll give that paper a read afterwards
2020-04-10T19:00:44 < Cracki> nom nom corpses
2020-04-10T19:00:46 < Cracki> :D
2020-04-10T19:01:04 < Cracki> lightly charred animal carcass
2020-04-10T19:01:18 < jadew> while watching the walking dead
2020-04-10T19:01:20 < jadew> yummy
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2020-04-10T19:49:36 < Laurenceb> chinese burning pigs .webm
2020-04-10T19:56:02 < Laurenceb> usa about to overtake italy
2020-04-10T19:56:06 < Laurenceb> USA! USA!
2020-04-10T19:56:57 < kakimir> they will
2020-04-10T19:57:02 < kakimir> and they will win
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2020-04-10T19:58:07 < emeb> " We gonna win so much you may even get tired of winning and you'll say please, please Mr. president, It's too much winning! We can't take it..."
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2020-04-10T20:15:02 < catphish> turns out i'm clinically retarded: https://i.imgur.com/iksYERt.png
2020-04-10T20:15:38 < Steffanx> Awesome.
2020-04-10T20:15:45 < catphish> just because they line up doesn't mean they're right
2020-04-10T20:15:50 < kakimir> something is missing
2020-04-10T20:15:54 < kakimir> termination resistors
2020-04-10T20:17:20 < catphish> i'm not sure it needs any more resistors does it?
2020-04-10T20:18:10 < emeb> got the +/- and M/P swapped?
2020-04-10T20:18:19 < kakimir> where are your termination resistors?
2020-04-10T20:18:47 < catphish> they're in the PHY i think
2020-04-10T20:18:59 < kakimir> which phy?
2020-04-10T20:19:02 < catphish> "On-chip termination resistors for the differential pairs" KSZ8081RNA
2020-04-10T20:19:40 < catphish> and the thing on the right is a magjack
2020-04-10T20:20:39 < catphish> i'm new to ethernet though!
2020-04-10T20:21:11 < catphish> this is what i'm building: https://nutty.tk/ethernet.pdf - probably still some work to do
2020-04-10T20:22:03 < catphish> emeb: P and N swapped *and* TX/RX swapped
2020-04-10T20:22:06 < qyx> kakimir: are you in 1990?
2020-04-10T20:22:32 < emeb> oops
2020-04-10T20:22:39 < kakimir> yes
2020-04-10T20:23:04 < qyx> catphish: actually I would not be surprised if it worked
2020-04-10T20:23:43 < Steffanx> catphish: must be the last one using .tk
2020-04-10T20:23:44 < catphish> qyx: MDIX sould probably fix some of it, not sure about the polartity of the pairs though
2020-04-10T20:24:27 < qyx> catphish: theres a a register Register 1Eh – PHY Control 1
2020-04-10T20:24:42 < qyx> with a description 1 = Polarity is reversed
2020-04-10T20:24:53 < catphish> handy
2020-04-10T20:25:02 < qyx> I was not able to find any actual documentation explicitly stating it is possible/supported
2020-04-10T20:25:15 < qyx> but it is not that unusual
2020-04-10T20:26:04 < qyx> I would correct the polarity for better sleep
2020-04-10T20:26:59 < catphish> better :) https://i.imgur.com/rrDu2t3.png
2020-04-10T20:27:12 < kakimir> sure thing
2020-04-10T20:27:24 < kakimir> you make the configuration to work as default
2020-04-10T20:27:39 < catphish> tbh i'm hoping i don't actually need to touch the registers
2020-04-10T20:27:50 < catphish> but will see :)
2020-04-10T20:29:33 < catphish> i might also just build this thing by adding a mosfet to a nucleo
2020-04-10T20:29:46 < catphish> but i like to learn and build my own things
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2020-04-10T21:28:12 < englishman> aandrew: there is a free downloadable arm core
2020-04-10T21:28:57 < englishman> https://www.arm.com/resources/designstart/designstart-fpga
2020-04-10T21:29:08 < englishman> looks like two now
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2020-04-10T21:41:44 < jadew> Cracki, they're saying that it was higher by 1000 deaths than the 5-year average
2020-04-10T21:41:58 < jadew> UK had only 582 covid deaths reported that week
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2020-04-10T21:43:13 < jadew> they had 980 covid deaths today
2020-04-10T21:43:27 < jadew> that's almost as much as the 5-year weekly average
2020-04-10T21:45:13 < jadew> so 95 to 99% chance of dying from something else is clearly wrong
2020-04-10T21:46:08 < jadew> it's actually exactly the other way around
2020-04-10T21:47:31 < jadew> at 980 covid deaths per day + the usual 1000 / week, the odds that you died from covid in UK right now, are at 87%
2020-04-10T21:48:28 < jadew> so it's the leading cause of death in there at the moment
2020-04-10T21:51:04 < jadew> and let me also point out the fact that they found more extra deaths than the covid detected ones
2020-04-10T21:52:24 < aandrew> I must be missing something
2020-04-10T21:52:29 < aandrew> looks like $75k/a fee
2020-04-10T21:53:59 < jadew> sorry, I butchered that calculation for the percentage
2020-04-10T21:54:22 < jadew> also, not as big as the weekly average
2020-04-10T21:54:25 < jadew> just 10% of it
2020-04-10T21:55:22 < jadew> from that first point the weekly average appears to be ~10k
2020-04-10T21:55:40 < Steffanx> Hows your covid-0x13 today jadew?
2020-04-10T21:56:41 < jadew> Steffanx, hopefully inexistent 
2020-04-10T21:57:34 < jadew> ok, so to the odds that you died of covid in the UK are at 40% right now, with a weekly death rate of 10k
2020-04-10T21:57:42 < jadew> (average)
2020-04-10T21:57:55 < jadew> pretty sure that makes it the leading cause of death
2020-04-10T21:58:19 < jadew> https://i.imgur.com/jdIeWnP.jpg
2020-04-10T22:02:05 < aandrew> hahaha arm has "use now with xilinx" and "use now with gowin"... GOWIN. not lattice, not microsemi, not intel. fucking GOWIN
2020-04-10T22:02:54 < Steffanx> did china drop a bag with money?
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2020-04-10T22:36:38 < qyx> [    1.576627] g_cdc gadget: CDC Composite Gadget, version: King Kamehameha Day 2008
2020-04-10T22:36:41 < qyx> wtf
2020-04-10T22:42:43 < Steffanx> I see a Dragon Ball Z fan?
2020-04-10T22:43:15 < Steffanx> oh, its a real thing.
2020-04-10T22:43:18 < Steffanx> not even DBZ.
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2020-04-10T23:11:15 < englishman> https://i.imgur.com/n4D0m9F.gifv
2020-04-10T23:13:10 < Steffanx> Heh cool :)
2020-04-10T23:14:37 < bitmask> hmm just ordered some paraloid b72
2020-04-10T23:15:08 < bitmask> found a recipe for a good conductive paint
2020-04-10T23:15:14 < Steffanx> But i have to redo it. i cannot deal with the tiny ball suddenly appearing.
2020-04-10T23:15:30 < bitmask> Steffanx also I dont like the ball that just stops at the flamingo
2020-04-10T23:16:05 < bitmask> +s
2020-04-10T23:16:55 < bitmask> but it is neat
2020-04-10T23:17:16 < Steffanx> you mean the big one before it gets out of the screen?
2020-04-10T23:17:46 < bitmask> yea
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2020-04-10T23:25:05 < jadew> bitmask, with your process, isn't the coating pealing off?
2020-04-10T23:25:28 < bitmask> what process
2020-04-10T23:25:36 < bitmask> the graphite  + ink?
2020-04-10T23:25:40 < jadew> yeah
2020-04-10T23:26:32 < bitmask> not really, I could with some effort peel it off a sheet of acrylic but with anything else, and if it wraps around its on there strong
2020-04-10T23:26:59 < jadew> neat
2020-04-10T23:27:12 < bitmask> but the new formula should work better
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2020-04-10T23:27:33 < bitmask> you can use it as a dip coating, the stuff I tried didnt work well
2020-04-10T23:28:12 < bitmask> and since its acetone based instead of water based with the ink, it will dry quicker
2020-04-10T23:29:00 < Steffanx> And it will be great with abs print? ;)
2020-04-10T23:29:09 < Steffanx> Prints*
2020-04-10T23:29:21 < bitmask> yea, actually abs is another alternative instead of this paraloid stuff
2020-04-10T23:29:43 < aandrew> englishman: on a scale of one to purple, how high are you?
2020-04-10T23:30:13 < englishman> not stoned enough yet to use msp430
2020-04-10T23:30:21 < Steffanx> Except that it kinda dissolves it, bitmask
2020-04-10T23:30:40 < bitmask> dissolves what? it dissolves both, thats the point
2020-04-10T23:30:47 < Steffanx> Still on the bad map430 trip?
2020-04-10T23:31:23 < Steffanx> Abs. Acetone. Cannot imagine that would be a great result 
2020-04-10T23:31:39 < bitmask> dissolve the polymer in acetone, add a lot of graphite, dip or paint, acetone dries and you are left with a polymer coating holding the graphite
2020-04-10T23:32:15 < Steffanx> Yes, but I was talking about abs prints coated in your new magic paint
2020-04-10T23:32:43 < bitmask> being good or bad
2020-04-10T23:32:48 < Steffanx> Bad. 
2020-04-10T23:33:06 < bitmask> oh yea maybe lose some definition but it would definitely become part of the print :P
2020-04-10T23:33:12 < Steffanx> Unless you want to dissolve the other layers ofcourse
2020-04-10T23:33:19 < bitmask> I would think it would dry fast enough to not do much damage though
2020-04-10T23:33:31 < bitmask> i dont print abs anyway
2020-04-10T23:36:34 < karlp> aandrew: yeah, I was loving that GOWIN was on that designstart page too :)
2020-04-10T23:36:38 < karlp> hellow arm china :)
2020-04-10T23:47:22 < Thorn> apollo 13 movie premieres in 3 h https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WM8kjDF0IJU
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2020-04-10T23:52:03 < Steffanx> no .torrent file for us Thorn?
2020-04-10T23:52:44 < Thorn> check torrents.nasa.gov
2020-04-10T23:52:47 < Thorn> or something
2020-04-10T23:53:29 < Steffanx> oh 30 min documentary, not exactly a movie :P
2020-04-10T23:53:33 < jadew> think a vacuum cleaner is compromised if I accidentally used it on FR-4 dust?
2020-04-10T23:53:43 < jadew> as in... unsafe to use anymore
2020-04-10T23:54:02 < Steffanx> No, you use masks in house dont you?
2020-04-10T23:54:08 < jadew> haha
2020-04-10T23:55:00 < englishman> cool Thorn thanks
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--- Day changed Sat Apr 11 2020
2020-04-11T00:01:51 < karlp> if you had fr4 dust in your house, I think you've got lax enough protocols that considering the safety of the vaccum cleaner kinda moot point
2020-04-11T00:04:06 < englishman> https://i.imgur.com/C7WBb67.gifv
2020-04-11T00:04:52 < Ultrasauce> no baking step?
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2020-04-11T00:30:14 < Laurenceb> 9 April 2020 (Spied from home)
2020-04-11T00:30:16 < Laurenceb> Working from home, nowadays, often means that the employer monitors everything that you do, via the nonfree software they make you use.
2020-04-11T00:30:46 < kakinull> ah
2020-04-11T00:30:49 < kakinull> rootkit
2020-04-11T00:30:56 < Steffanx> > working
2020-04-11T00:32:07 < Laurenceb> rms is working on gnu hurd
2020-04-11T00:33:27 < Laurenceb> >Russia plans to require everyone in Moscow to get government approval for each trip out of the house. Added to this obvious injustice is another injustice whose gravity most people won't recognize: the system requires a nonfree app
2020-04-11T00:34:04 < qyx> you must pay for it?
2020-04-11T00:34:08 < Steffanx> ofcourse not
2020-04-11T00:34:13 < Steffanx> that is not the RMS definitions of non-free
2020-04-11T00:35:02 < Laurenceb> freedom as in u have to give him the source codez
2020-04-11T00:35:12 < vmt> i think he means non-free in the sense that rms uses it. Laurenceb, do you have an rms bas-relief on the mantlepiece in front of which you sacrifice newborn babies in the name of free software and other meaningless bullshit?
2020-04-11T00:35:31 < Laurenceb> >meaningless
2020-04-11T00:35:45 < vmt> >4chan? >yes?
2020-04-11T00:35:56 < Steffanx> channer confirmed.
2020-04-11T00:35:57 < vmt> >cool yet?
2020-04-11T00:36:39 < vmt> have run at any rate, i digress
2020-04-11T00:38:16 < Laurenceb> with RMS out of the way, tech can become welcoming and inclusive
2020-04-11T00:38:39 < Laurenceb> and women are less likely to get raped while their code is compiling
2020-04-11T00:40:04 < Laurenceb> >The occasional WIRED contributor was a formidable impediment to the careers of women interested in the free-software movement and computer science more generally.
2020-04-11T00:42:10 < Laurenceb> >Star Simpson recalls taking a walk on the MIT campus with an upperclassman, who points out all the foliage in one woman professor’s office and tells her that women in computer science keep plants because Stallman hates them
2020-04-11T00:42:15 < Laurenceb> >Star Simpson
2020-04-11T00:42:20 < Laurenceb> my sides are now orbital
2020-04-11T00:42:33 < Laurenceb> arduino versus fbi grrrl
2020-04-11T00:43:02  * specing roolllls eyes
2020-04-11T00:43:13 < Laurenceb> the original clock boy
2020-04-11T00:52:55 < PaulFertser> Laurenceb: there was a "beta version" of that app, quickly decompiled and horrible issues with it were exposed, they pulled it out of google play the same day.
2020-04-11T00:53:08 < Laurenceb> lol
2020-04-11T00:53:41 < PaulFertser> They say it should be possible to get permission or something by calling 112, so it looks an app is not strictly required.
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2020-04-11T01:04:27 < kakinull> is PaulFertser locked in his home now?
2020-04-11T01:06:05 < kakinull> I wonder if Xi rolled a version of wechat or something for Putin?
2020-04-11T01:06:14 < PaulFertser> kakinull: I can go to the nearest shop. Or to the skip.
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2020-04-11T01:06:25 < kakinull> without app?
2020-04-11T01:06:46 < PaulFertser> There's no app deployed yet, and no rules regarding its usage. So yes.
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2020-04-11T01:09:05 < PaulFertser> kakinull: have you heard about ICQ?
2020-04-11T01:09:22 < kakinull> yes
2020-04-11T01:09:32 < kakinull> the old messenger format
2020-04-11T01:09:44 < PaulFertser> "Putin" owns it now, and they released some new software under this brand recently.
2020-04-11T01:10:58 < specing> PaulFertser: yeah, and then you get a fine for abusing 112 lol
2020-04-11T01:11:24 < PaulFertser> specing: I do not have android devices so I can't run the app anyway.
2020-04-11T01:12:01 < Thorn> meanwhile in Finland https://coub.com/view/2c22zo
2020-04-11T01:12:05 < specing> PaulFertser: emulator?
2020-04-11T01:12:24 < PaulFertser> specing: I've read they all suck
2020-04-11T01:12:39 < qyx> specing: why if he simply doesn't own any capable device
2020-04-11T01:12:42 < qyx> because of putins poverty
2020-04-11T01:13:06 < PaulFertser> qyx: this app is all about moscow and in moscow everybody's rich.
2020-04-11T01:13:07 < qyx> I don't have an android phone neither
2020-04-11T01:15:22 < PaulFertser> qyx: are you stuck with the only professional OS for the phones, Windows Mobile?
2020-04-11T01:15:42 < PaulFertser> On Nokia Lumia.
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2020-04-11T01:17:53 < qyx> no, sony ericsson proprietary :>
2020-04-11T01:18:19 < qyx> not even symbian
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2020-04-11T01:20:47 < PaulFertser> Kewl
2020-04-11T01:20:48 < englishman> moneyed moscovites
2020-04-11T01:21:32 < Laurenceb> We can clearly see that there is no bi-univocal correspondence between linear signifying links or archi-writing, depending on the author, and this multireferential, multi-dimensional machinic catalysis. The symmetry of scale, the transversality, the pathic non-discursive character of their expansion: all these dimensions remove us from the logic of the excluded middle and reinforce us in our dismissal of the ontological binarism we critic
2020-04-11T01:21:32 < Laurenceb> ised previously.
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2020-04-11T01:54:26 < kakinull> Laurenceb: what happened to your blimb project?
2020-04-11T01:55:05 < kakinull> what was the conclusion?
2020-04-11T01:55:34 < Laurenceb> still working on it
2020-04-11T01:55:52 < Laurenceb> very tricky, I'm simulating fly by wire stuff with high speed winches on it atm
2020-04-11T01:56:02 < jadew> karlp, I'm never sure how well PCBs are cleaned after being cut with the router
2020-04-11T01:56:18 < Laurenceb> conventional blimps would work but they rotate with the wind, so angles panels wouldnt work
2020-04-11T01:56:25 < jadew> and I put the vacuum cleaner on top of a batch of PCBs
2020-04-11T01:56:41 < jadew> realized later that I might have sucked whatever dust was present there
2020-04-11T01:59:46 < Laurenceb> http://sjwiki.org/wiki/Main_Page
2020-04-11T02:00:09 < Laurenceb> >the terfs!!!
2020-04-11T02:00:31 < jadew> what's a terf?
2020-04-11T02:00:34 < jadew> or a swerf?
2020-04-11T02:00:52 < Laurenceb> who knows
2020-04-11T02:00:54 < Laurenceb> http://sjwiki.org/wiki/Trans-exclusionary_radical_feminism#at_pco=smlre-1.0&at_si=5e90fa6ffb758b29&at_ab=per-2&at_pos=1&at_tot=3
2020-04-11T02:00:59 < jadew> also, I have worries that that drawing might have a penis
2020-04-11T02:01:00 < Laurenceb> but its gunna be lulzy
2020-04-11T02:01:38 < Laurenceb> wait wtf http://sjwiki.org/wiki/Harry_Benjamin_syndrome
2020-04-11T02:01:53 < Laurenceb> this is like a parody of itself
2020-04-11T02:02:29 < karlp> anyonw know why the "start project" button in timecube is greyed out?
2020-04-11T02:02:51 < jadew> because you can't start a project
2020-04-11T02:02:56 < Laurenceb> because it is a 4 cornered square
2020-04-11T02:03:39 < Laurenceb> >terf is really bad >Harry Benjamin is ebil
2020-04-11T02:03:47 < Laurenceb> please tell me these people are trolls
2020-04-11T02:04:17 < karlp> thanks jade :)
2020-04-11T02:04:27 < jadew> glad I could help :P
2020-04-11T02:05:21 < karlp> ah, needed to "manage updates" or something and enable the chip family
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2020-04-11T02:23:21 < Laurenceb> wonder when britbongs will get their bulldozed into a trench treatment
2020-04-11T02:23:34 < Laurenceb> its the latest fad from grand old usa
2020-04-11T02:27:51 < jadew> BrainDamage, are you ok?
2020-04-11T02:27:56 < Laurenceb> wow what happened to wired magazine
2020-04-11T02:28:10 < Laurenceb> its awful trash
2020-04-11T02:28:14 < BrainDamage> jadew: sure
2020-04-11T02:28:29 < Laurenceb> jadew: usa and uk are now worse than italy
2020-04-11T02:28:34 < jadew> cool, you haven't said anything in ~48 hours
2020-04-11T02:28:52 < BrainDamage> i simply caved in to peer pressure of my friends and just bought a switch
2020-04-11T02:29:07 < BrainDamage> nintendo switch, to be clear
2020-04-11T02:29:09 < jadew> what switch?
2020-04-11T02:29:11 < jadew> ah
2020-04-11T02:29:13 < jadew> neat
2020-04-11T02:29:23 < Laurenceb> a male prostitute who tops and bottoms
2020-04-11T02:29:26 < jadew> Laurenceb, I noticed
2020-04-11T02:29:32 < Laurenceb> lmao
2020-04-11T02:29:45 < jadew> USA is really really bad
2020-04-11T02:29:58 < Laurenceb> yeah, I'm sure Trump can sort it out
2020-04-11T02:29:59 < Laurenceb>  /s
2020-04-11T02:30:02 < BrainDamage> usa pretty much excluded testing until pretty late
2020-04-11T02:30:14 < BrainDamage> so the cases were already there, just undetected
2020-04-11T02:30:27 < jadew> it's not that they didn't test, they didn't take any measures to combat it
2020-04-11T02:30:33 < Laurenceb> well to be fair their testing is way better than uk
2020-04-11T02:30:37 < jadew> but there's still a chance that they're equipped to deal with it
2020-04-11T02:30:38 < Laurenceb> uk is falling apart
2020-04-11T02:30:54 < Laurenceb> just a million different quangos covering their own backs atm
2020-04-11T02:31:11 < BrainDamage> usa healthcare is great if you're rich
2020-04-11T02:31:20 < BrainDamage> not so much if you have a median wage
2020-04-11T02:31:29 < BrainDamage> so yes, they are going to get screwed
2020-04-11T02:31:57 < Laurenceb> the uk daily press conference is pure cringe at this point
2020-04-11T02:32:26 < Laurenceb> early on it was fun to watch it ironically to see back covering techniques demonstrated
2020-04-11T02:32:39 < Laurenceb> but at this points they are all falling apart and dont know what to say
2020-04-11T02:32:51 < jadew> can't be worse than here
2020-04-11T02:32:58 < englishman> what games did you get BrainDamage 
2020-04-11T02:33:04 < englishman> i got a switch in december
2020-04-11T02:33:20 < Laurenceb> someone just needs to say "we're in the shit and dont have a way out of this without a lot of people dying"
2020-04-11T02:33:33 < Laurenceb> at least it would be honest
2020-04-11T02:33:59 < Laurenceb> because there is no way out of this
2020-04-11T02:34:05 < BrainDamage> rocket league, smash and nine parchments to play with friends,  zelda, and gris for myself
2020-04-11T02:34:20 < BrainDamage> I've already finished gris, it's kinda short, but it's beautiful
2020-04-11T02:34:34 < BrainDamage> if you find it discounted I recommend it
2020-04-11T02:34:37 < englishman> cool havent heard of that one
2020-04-11T02:34:51 < BrainDamage> was also considering buying superhot
2020-04-11T02:35:33 < englishman> the zelda is really good
2020-04-11T02:35:46 < jadew> do they have an online store or how does that go?
2020-04-11T02:36:00 < jadew> you don't need the physical support, right?
2020-04-11T02:36:03 < BrainDamage> yes, you can either buy them online or buy sdcards with the games flashed
2020-04-11T02:36:28 < englishman> looks like gris is only $8
2020-04-11T02:36:55 < BrainDamage> englishman: did you like the atmosphere in ex machina?
2020-04-11T02:37:00 < englishman> yes
2020-04-11T02:37:05 < englishman> are you about to recommend devs?
2020-04-11T02:37:39 < BrainDamage> no, gris has same style of music and alien landscapes
2020-04-11T02:37:55 < englishman> ah cool
2020-04-11T02:37:58 < BrainDamage> the thematic is very different by the pictoresque style is there
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2020-04-11T02:39:40 < jadew> if it's available on that platform, I recommend Ori and the blind forest
2020-04-11T02:40:09 < jadew> there's also a sequel I didn't play, but it looks good too
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2020-04-11T02:40:48 < Laurenceb> wtf I love nintendo now
2020-04-11T02:41:27 < jadew> looks like it is available for switch
2020-04-11T02:45:29 < BrainDamage> oh and I've almost finished setting up a crappy recording studio, we're in for the long run so better be prepared for long bored nights
2020-04-11T02:46:25 < jadew> have you found a nice and free platform that support video conferences?
2020-04-11T02:47:08 < Steffanx> How long is long in Italy, BrainDamage ?
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2020-04-11T02:47:25 < BrainDamage> few months at least I'd wager
2020-04-11T02:47:37 < jadew> IIRC, he was already complaining one week in
2020-04-11T02:48:03 < BrainDamage> yes, and now I'm 2 months in
2020-04-11T02:48:49 < jadew> when it started I said 6 months+
2020-04-11T02:49:04 < Steffanx> Not all of us are used to the inside life jadew
2020-04-11T02:49:06 < jadew> but for Romania it might be more
2020-04-11T02:49:26 < jadew> Steffanx, for me it's not much of a change, but I still feel confined
2020-04-11T02:49:46 < BrainDamage> the majority of people are not introverted
2020-04-11T02:49:56 < BrainDamage> so confinement does give a mental toll
2020-04-11T02:50:00 < BrainDamage> https://filebin.ca/5IhAXY09Eobn/empty_session.ogg
2020-04-11T02:50:02 < Steffanx> I'm doing OK. I can work from home well enough. And here it's not forbidden to go to work.
2020-04-11T02:50:47 < englishman> my turkey hunting pal is uncommunicative :(
2020-04-11T02:51:25 < englishman> he was not that healthy, hope he's ok
2020-04-11T02:51:29 < Steffanx> He got chronicled?
2020-04-11T02:51:39 < Steffanx> Lol auto corrected
2020-04-11T02:51:51 < Steffanx> Corronizzled 
2020-04-11T02:52:06 < BrainDamage> chronicled can also apply
2020-04-11T02:52:31 < Steffanx> I must say I like that one more than the previous one you shared :)
2020-04-11T02:53:17 < Steffanx> What song is this BrainDamage ?
2020-04-11T02:53:23 < BrainDamage> nothing else matters
2020-04-11T02:53:54 < jadew> lol Steffanx 
2020-04-11T02:54:21 < Steffanx> Hmm, I guess the version I hear all the time is different then :P
2020-04-11T02:57:24 < Steffanx> But then I'm not a Metallica fan et all, so I don't feel ashamed:P
2020-04-11T02:59:06 < Steffanx> *at all
2020-04-11T03:00:05 < Steffanx> Only feel dumb I didn't didn't recognise it
2020-04-11T03:00:25 < BrainDamage> just chalk it up to my shitty skills
2020-04-11T03:01:06 < BrainDamage> also, I only like a couple of songs of metallica
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2020-04-11T03:06:13 < karlp> hrm, nine parchments looks like fun.  been playiung borderlands2 with a friend.
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2020-04-11T05:20:15 < dongs> https://www.liveleak.com/view?t=KHZm_1586407006 lmao
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2020-04-11T05:33:30 < jly> world population -1
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2020-04-11T06:08:44 < friendofafriend> dongs: Did you see the dots at the end?  Looks like the outline of a BGA.
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2020-04-11T11:14:49 < antto> https://i.imgur.com/lNs7hAH.mp4
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2020-04-11T12:03:40 < Steffanx> Thank you for your contribution antto 
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2020-04-11T14:26:47 < antto> this is for when you run out of toilet pap0r
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2020-04-11T14:38:50 < dongs> friendofafriend: uh what? about the liveleak video?
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2020-04-11T14:46:37 < mawk> he will buy a lipo fireproof bag next time
2020-04-11T14:46:39 < mawk> if he's still alive
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2020-04-11T15:27:30 < dongs> PaulFertser: how the fuck do i use FT2232 on WINDOWS with openocd.
2020-04-11T15:27:38 < dongs> does it not simply work using the fucking FTDI dll?
2020-04-11T15:27:43 < dongs> or do I need to zadig or wahtever
2020-04-11T15:27:56 < zyp> presumably you'd need to zadick it
2020-04-11T15:28:04 < PaulFertser> dongs: just assign WinUSB driver to the composite parent.
2020-04-11T15:28:24 < PaulFertser> dongs: that's the only way windows allows userspace USB apps.
2020-04-11T15:28:42 < PaulFertser> dongs: zadig usually works nicely for that (but one needs to use checkbox to unhide composite parents)
2020-04-11T15:29:52 < PaulFertser> I guess there's a more professional way than zadig, you were telling you had some proper signed INF files for that or something like that, I couldn't understand.
2020-04-11T15:32:50 < PaulFertser> dongs: the fucking ftdi dll is incompatible with GPL, on purpose, FTDI decided that GPL software shouldn't be allowed to use their driver.
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2020-04-11T15:33:51 < dongs> boofuckinghoo
2020-04-11T15:34:16 < zyp> haha, nice
2020-04-11T15:34:21 < zyp> how does the license read?
2020-04-11T15:34:27 < PaulFertser> And microsoft decided that there shouldn't be any easy way for userspace to access USB devices by automatically temporarily switching off the kernel driver (as every other system allows).
2020-04-11T15:34:46 < dongs> GPL are a bunch of IP thieves, so why should they get free stuff
2020-04-11T15:34:48 < srk> xoxo
2020-04-11T15:34:59 < zyp> PaulFertser, can't libwdi do that?
2020-04-11T15:35:09 < srk> root your windows!
2020-04-11T15:35:14 < dongs> thatw what literally zadig is
2020-04-11T15:35:17 < dongs> its jsut a gui to libwdi
2020-04-11T15:35:23 < zyp> yeah
2020-04-11T15:35:35 < zyp> but instead of requiring the user to run zadig, just call libwdi directly
2020-04-11T15:35:45 < PaulFertser> dongs: there's no "IP" and hence no theft
2020-04-11T15:35:52 < dongs> that would require openocd to actually give a shit about windows uesrs
2020-04-11T15:36:04 < srk> lol
2020-04-11T15:36:08 < dongs> they don't even provide binaries for that shit
2020-04-11T15:36:09 < PaulFertser> zyp: I do not think it allows that. WinUSB is bound to the device instead of the driver permanently.
2020-04-11T15:36:16 < dongs> you gotta hunt foor that stuff off some random shady sites
2020-04-11T15:36:23 < PaulFertser> dongs: openocd cares about windows users
2020-04-11T15:36:26 < fenugrec> so, why are you even wasting your time on oocd then ?
2020-04-11T15:36:38 < dongs> Warn : Haven't made progress in mpsse_flush() for 2069ms.
2020-04-11T15:36:38 < srk> shady zadig will steal all your data
2020-04-11T15:36:44 < PaulFertser> dongs: I personally wrote README.Windows and collected all the useful hints I knew there.
2020-04-11T15:37:11 < dongs> FT2232 comes with 2 interfaces, which one is the one to use?
2020-04-11T15:37:30 < PaulFertser> dongs: the one you connected to the target. And do not enable RCLK (if you enabled it somehow)
2020-04-11T15:37:36 < PaulFertser> dongs: by default the first one is used.
2020-04-11T15:38:11 < PaulFertser> dongs: sometimes ft2232h needs real power cycle to work. It has some weird state where it just doesn't do anything useful, all transfers are stalled.
2020-04-11T15:39:31 < aandrew> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/%E2%88%82?wprov=sfti1 how you pronounce that symbol 
2020-04-11T15:40:03 < aandrew> https://imgur.com/a/l1mFZN1 like in that equation 
2020-04-11T15:42:26 < dongs> http://bcas.tv/paste/results/th0Wwc93.html
2020-04-11T15:45:12 < zyp> aandrew, there's a whole paragraph on pronunciation in the article you linked
2020-04-11T15:45:21 < aandrew> Yes I know
2020-04-11T15:45:36 < aandrew> Which would you use in that example is the question
2020-04-11T15:46:56 < aandrew> Dee? Del? Dabba? “partial dee?” 
2020-04-11T15:47:35 < PaulFertser> dongs: are you using JTAG or want SWD?
2020-04-11T15:47:49 < dongs> yeah its swd only
2020-04-11T15:47:53 < zyp> dunno, I don't tend to read math stuff out loud
2020-04-11T15:48:00 < PaulFertser> dongs: is ftdi chip connected directly to the target MCU? 
2020-04-11T15:48:08 < PaulFertser> Is Vccio pin matching target's Vcc?
2020-04-11T15:48:20 < PaulFertser> Have you tried pulling target's reset low while starting openocd?
2020-04-11T15:48:34 < dongs> ftdi actually neesd vccio?
2020-04-11T15:48:50 < PaulFertser> dongs: this pin must be connected to ~3 V source, yes.
2020-04-11T15:48:50 < aandrew> Iirc ft2232 worked out of the box for me on Windows. I did use spi eeprom though
2020-04-11T15:49:02 < PaulFertser> aandrew: please check the datasheet :)
2020-04-11T15:49:12 < aandrew> Hm?
2020-04-11T15:49:18 < PaulFertser> IIRC it must be between 3.0 - 3.6 V.
2020-04-11T15:49:45 < PaulFertser> It's literally the power for the CMOS interface pins.
2020-04-11T15:49:48 < Thorn> aandrew: https://youtu.be/EkZGBdY0vlg?t=2368
2020-04-11T15:50:15 < aandrew> It’s kind of silly that it needs an I/o voltage rail if it’s not really variable. Maybe useful for shutdown applications 
2020-04-11T15:50:24 < PaulFertser> dongs: with target's SRST manually pulled low on openocd startup you should see some meaningful communication if hardware is connected properly.
2020-04-11T15:50:45 < PaulFertser> dongs: btw, how exactly are you using ftdi for SWD? Do you realise it's not the TMS pin that should be connected to the target's SWDIO?
2020-04-11T15:50:50 < ohsix> bloop
2020-04-11T15:51:15 < dongs> uih
2020-04-11T15:51:16 < dongs> then what?
2020-04-11T15:51:27 < PaulFertser> dongs: depends on what you want to do with the target
2020-04-11T15:51:29 < dongs> ive got a ftdi breakout wiht the fucking armjtag connector o it
2020-04-11T15:51:33 < dongs> i want to fucking debug it what eelse
2020-04-11T15:51:52 < PaulFertser> dongs: do you have some JTAG -> SWD convertor? Or just the ftdi breakout?
2020-04-11T15:51:57 < dongs> wut?
2020-04-11T15:52:13 < dongs> SWD is on the JTAG connector
2020-04-11T15:52:16 < dongs> TCK and TMS
2020-04-11T15:52:20 < dongs> SWCLK and SWDIO
2020-04-11T15:52:29 < PaulFertser> dongs: ok no, it won't work just like that due to hardware limitations of ftdi chips.
2020-04-11T15:52:36 < dongs> oh fucks sake
2020-04-11T15:52:53 < PaulFertser> dongs: please see interface/ftdi/swd-resistor-hack.cfg
2020-04-11T15:54:25 < PaulFertser> dongs: you can omit resistor since OpenOCD actually disables the drive in versions starting from v0.10.0-264-g1003bc7b (that is, 264 commits _past_ 0.10.0). Or you can use 0.10.0 but then you need the resistor.
2020-04-11T15:54:41 < PaulFertser> There's no way round that, it's how MPSSE works, blame FTDI or whomever.
2020-04-11T15:54:55 < ohsix> he has a real jtag/swd emulator, what's going on
2020-04-11T15:55:02 < PaulFertser> ohsix: probably for client
2020-04-11T15:55:06 < ohsix> ah
2020-04-11T15:55:11 < PaulFertser> Who's too poor to pay for proper equipment
2020-04-11T15:55:14 < dongs> using april8 version
2020-04-11T15:55:22 < aandrew> Thorn: thanks. Ok, “partial” is how he’s saying it. Perfect. Also, subscribed. It’s hard to find YouTube vids like this that don’t have some Indian with a string accent 
2020-04-11T15:55:23 < ohsix> lul stlink clone on aliexpress is 1.50$
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2020-04-11T15:55:54 < dongs> bin\openocd --version
2020-04-11T15:55:55 < dongs> Open On-Chip Debugger 0.10.0 (2020-04-08) [
2020-04-11T15:56:05 < dongs> how the fuck can there be 260 commits after 0.10
2020-04-11T15:56:11 < dongs> if that was released like 5 days ago
2020-04-11T15:56:11 < aandrew> dongs: at minimum put 470R on FTDI TDI connected to SWDIO
2020-04-11T15:56:15 < PaulFertser> dongs: dongs: that's plain 0.10.0 just compiled recently.
2020-04-11T15:56:41 < PaulFertser> aandrew: 0R would be OK with more current version but for 0.10.0 some resistor is needed, right.
2020-04-11T15:57:15 < aandrew> Yep exactly. Didn’t know about the change in newer oocd 
2020-04-11T15:57:59 < PaulFertser> That change was committed on Sat Jan 13 11:37:13 2018 but there wasn't a new release since long...
2020-04-11T15:59:35 < ohsix> can't openocd use an arduino as a wiggler in some capacity
2020-04-11T16:00:36 < dongs> PaulFertser: whete teh fuck can i get a NEW version of windows exe
2020-04-11T16:00:38 < dongs> with that shit in it.
2020-04-11T16:00:39 < PaulFertser> ohsix: in theory yes, in practice nobody implemented that. Also, an arduino would mean 5 V levels which would be unsuitable for most purposes.
2020-04-11T16:00:52 < dongs> is ohsix talking again lol
2020-04-11T16:00:52 < ohsix> right
2020-04-11T16:00:56 < dongs> i still have him on ignore
2020-04-11T16:01:34 < PaulFertser> dongs: https://xpack.github.io/openocd/
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2020-04-11T16:05:19 < aandrew> dongs: you can’t stick a 470 in to test?
2020-04-11T16:05:52 < aandrew> Did corona give all your resistors pneumonia 
2020-04-11T16:06:17 < ohsix> lol
2020-04-11T16:06:19 < PaulFertser> dongs: in the current version please read and use interface/ftdi/minimodule-swd.cfg
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2020-04-11T16:13:56 < dongs> PaulFertser: my ftdi shit is the particle programmer shield shit
2020-04-11T16:14:00 < dongs> standard arm20 connector on it
2020-04-11T16:14:19 < dongs> https://github.com/particle-iot/shields/tree/master/photon-shields/programmer-shield
2020-04-11T16:16:21 < dongs> ive only used it with altera? or someshit idk or lattice maybe
2020-04-11T16:16:26 < dongs> worked out of the box using standard jtag pinout
2020-04-11T16:16:28 < dongs> but this shit is swd
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2020-04-11T16:17:56 < PaulFertser> dongs: with swd you need to combine TDO and TDI for the reasons explained above
2020-04-11T16:18:49 < dongs> yes, i understand
2020-04-11T16:18:57 < dongs> but why i need to look at the minimodule?
2020-04-11T16:19:01 < dongs> the pins are still same right?
2020-04-11T16:19:05 < PaulFertser> dongs: ah, yes
2020-04-11T16:19:15 < PaulFertser> dongs: I just thought you have the official ftdi breakout.
2020-04-11T16:19:20 < dongs> yea no
2020-04-11T16:19:43 < PaulFertser> dongs: so TMS not connected at all, instead TDI and TDO bridged together to SWDIO.
2020-04-11T16:20:03 < dongs> Error: libusb_open() failed with LIBUSB_ERROR_NOT_SUPPORTED
2020-04-11T16:20:05 < dongs> is this a problem?
2020-04-11T16:20:12 < dongs> it does stuff but also spams this
2020-04-11T16:20:21 < zyp> is this gonna be used with cortex-m0?
2020-04-11T16:20:25 < dongs> no
2020-04-11T16:20:32 < dongs> aarch64
2020-04-11T16:20:34 < dongs> (lol)
2020-04-11T16:20:48 < zyp> so can't you just use jtag mode?
2020-04-11T16:20:56 < dongs> yeah, because there's only SWD
2020-04-11T16:21:11 < dongs> its RK3308
2020-04-11T16:21:12 < PaulFertser> dongs: probably it complains about other interface you have there
2020-04-11T16:21:13 < dongs> only swd on it
2020-04-11T16:21:14 < zyp> okay, so like m0 them
2020-04-11T16:21:16 < zyp> then
2020-04-11T16:21:24 < PaulFertser> dongs: are you sure you've installed the driver for the right one?
2020-04-11T16:21:39 < dongs> PaulFertser: i zadig'd both
2020-04-11T16:21:52 < PaulFertser> dongs: I mean you might have several ftdi thingies connected to your computer.
2020-04-11T16:21:59 < dongs> ah no
2020-04-11T16:22:04 < dongs> fucking hell
2020-04-11T16:22:07 < PaulFertser> dongs: so what about the stuff? Same error with junk DP?
2020-04-11T16:22:11 < dongs> the dumb progrfamemr shield only comes with a FUCKING EAGLE SCEHAMTIC FILE
2020-04-11T16:22:18 < dongs> jlink you mean?
2020-04-11T16:22:21 < dongs> jlink works fine
2020-04-11T16:22:26 < dongs> but it sucks at aarch64 :p
2020-04-11T16:22:27 < PaulFertser> dongs: no I mean the log you showed
2020-04-11T16:22:30 < dongs> oh
2020-04-11T16:22:35 < zyp> haha
2020-04-11T16:22:49 < dongs> libusb_open ?
2020-04-11T16:22:52 < dongs> it alway shappens
2020-04-11T16:22:59 < zyp> never thought I'd see dongs wanting to use openocd because jlink sucks at something
2020-04-11T16:23:20 < PaulFertser> dongs: please pastebin full log
2020-04-11T16:23:38 < dongs> https://github.com/particle-iot/shields/blob/master/photon-shields/PDFs/Schematics/programmer-shield-v1.pdf ok finalyl found
2020-04-11T16:24:24 < PaulFertser> heh, it has TDO resistor integrated, just in case I guess
2020-04-11T16:24:33 < zyp> PaulFertser, does openocd support any generic usb protocols if I wanted to e.g. use a stm32 with a custom firmware?
2020-04-11T16:24:46 < dongs> PaulFertser: yweah i just noticed that
2020-04-11T16:24:56 < dongs> http://bcas.tv/paste/results/HKo4bl71.html
2020-04-11T16:25:20 < PaulFertser> zyp: probably you want to implement CMSIS-DAP then?
2020-04-11T16:25:30 < zyp> no, for generic jtag
2020-04-11T16:25:45 < dongs> this is connecting to some random stm board
2020-04-11T16:25:49 < dongs> just to test swd working
2020-04-11T16:25:59 < PaulFertser> dongs: naw that's different, you have changed something about drivers now
2020-04-11T16:26:15 < PaulFertser> You had better result before
2020-04-11T16:27:08 < PaulFertser> (the one ending with "junk DP" read)
2020-04-11T16:27:21 < dongs> that was the RK
2020-04-11T16:27:34 < dongs> but anywat htat as before bridiging tdi/tdo
2020-04-11T16:27:55 < PaulFertser> Yes, but now the result is different on another level.
2020-04-11T16:28:01 < PaulFertser> On windows drivers level.
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2020-04-11T16:46:34 < PaulFertser> dongs: we had reports specifically composite parent need to be bound to winusb, not individual interfaces.
2020-04-11T16:54:37 < karlp> heh, st's "ultimate liberty" license, "No use, reproduction or redistribution of this software partially or totally may be done in any manner that would subject this software to any Open Source Terms."
2020-04-11T17:04:55 -!- onio [~onio@cpc122394-bmly11-2-0-cust161.2-3.cable.virginm.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving]
2020-04-11T17:09:48 < emeb> that's an interesting definition of "ultimate liberty"
2020-04-11T17:12:09 -!- Jak_o_Shadows [~Jak@unaffiliated/jak-o-shadows/x-0479135] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds]
2020-04-11T17:21:53 < karlp> https://www.st.com/SLA0044 if you want to read yourself
2020-04-11T17:32:52 < Laurenceb> free as in freedumz
2020-04-11T17:33:29 < Laurenceb> free as in open source, GNU PLUS Linux powered genocidal gas chamber
2020-04-11T17:36:26 < mawk> you made a smiley dongs 
2020-04-11T17:36:28 < mawk> you said ":p"
2020-04-11T17:36:32 < mawk> what is going on
2020-04-11T17:37:43 < Steffanx> LOL
2020-04-11T17:38:56 < Cracki> p:
2020-04-11T17:39:02 < Laurenceb> usa takes number 1 slot
2020-04-11T17:39:12 < Laurenceb> 18,850 muricans dead
2020-04-11T17:39:14 < Cracki> fuck yuh muhrica
2020-04-11T17:39:21 < Steffanx> When will the uk go for that spot Laurenceb?
2020-04-11T17:39:34 < Cracki> I'm still amazed over the german's resilience
2020-04-11T17:39:43 < emeb> Winning so hard
2020-04-11T17:39:53 -!- kakimir [575d1b57@87-93-27-87.bb.dnainternet.fi] has joined ##stm32
2020-04-11T17:40:26 < Cracki> ppl say young germans got infected first, which results in spread with few deaths, and we hardly ever mingle between age groups, certainly not alpine "spring break" vs 80yos
2020-04-11T17:40:35 < specing> yep
2020-04-11T17:40:44 < specing> >60 year olds don't travel as much
2020-04-11T17:41:21 < Cracki> I wonder if this slow burn will fatigue enough people that we're gonna stop this lockdown genocide
2020-04-11T17:42:51 < Cracki> they're coming up with ever more retarded measures around here, such as 10 sq.m. per customer limit, so now they make you take a whole shopping cart, no matter how few things you need
2020-04-11T17:43:37 < specing> Aldi requires each member of the same household to take their own cart. Its cartland!
2020-04-11T17:45:09 < Cracki> here they consider same household to be one "organism" so you could theoretically sack the store with _one_ cart and your 29 brothers and sisters and maybe cousins if you love each other very much
2020-04-11T17:46:18 < Cracki> some old hobo types stood in front of a freezer aisle, discussing whether you can eat frozen lasagna thawed to room temp, without heating it up
2020-04-11T17:46:52 < Cracki> the canned stuff aisles were on the other side of the store
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2020-04-11T18:06:34 < dongs> PaulFertser: ok, i gave up and just zadig'd jlink and it works ther
2020-04-11T18:06:36 < friendofafriend> dongs: Yeah, that fire video.  Watch it again, it looks like somehow you can see traces of the camera's PCB starting at :40.
2020-04-11T18:07:00 < friendofafriend> Maybe light going through the PCB somehow and hitting the sensor from the other side?
2020-04-11T18:08:30 < dongs> nope, i dont see sehit
2020-04-11T18:08:37 < dongs> maybe its your lunux desktop failing to decode h264
2020-04-11T18:10:09 < Cracki> friendofafriend, I see what you mean
2020-04-11T18:10:21 < Cracki> looks like bga pads in teardrop shape
2020-04-11T18:10:33 < Cracki> not sure about traces tho
2020-04-11T18:10:46 < Cracki> funky, not sure how that happens
2020-04-11T18:11:00 < Cracki> if anything light would hit a die, not the pcb
2020-04-11T18:11:24 < dongs> what
2020-04-11T18:11:27 < dongs> where the fuck is timestamp for this
2020-04-11T18:11:28 < dongs> i msut be blind
2020-04-11T18:11:42 < Cracki> 0:33 and after
2020-04-11T18:11:45 < Cracki> very faint
2020-04-11T18:11:55 < dongs> where?
2020-04-11T18:12:01 < Cracki> assume about 5x10 dots across the whole picture
2020-04-11T18:12:19 < dongs> o yeah
2020-04-11T18:12:21 < dongs> at the very end
2020-04-11T18:12:25 < dongs> theres definitely traces
2020-04-11T18:12:47 < dongs> https://i.imgur.com/Il6bmZY.png
2020-04-11T18:12:48 < Cracki> nobody cares about the inferno in that room :D
2020-04-11T18:12:51 < kakimir> does jlc do flex products?
2020-04-11T18:13:27 < PaulFertser> dongs: oh ok. Care to clarify whether you were still getting that libusb error even after using zadig for the composite device parent?
2020-04-11T18:13:57 < dongs> PaulFertser: didnt do this beacuse... i dont know how to make that work. ftdi just shows up as 2 sepasrate shits in zadig
2020-04-11T18:14:21 < PaulFertser> dongs: I told you, in zadig you have menus and in one of the menus there's a checkbox that says "show everything" or some such.
2020-04-11T18:14:49 < PaulFertser> And then you can assign WinUSB to the parent.
2020-04-11T18:15:26 < dongs> and thats the ONLY driver it needs?
2020-04-11T18:15:28 < dongs> on the composite one?
2020-04-11T18:15:32 < PaulFertser> dongs: afaict, yes
2020-04-11T18:15:37 < dongs> leave the 2 interfaces as wahtever tehy are?
2020-04-11T18:15:58 < PaulFertser> Yes, that should be enough
2020-04-11T18:16:16 < PaulFertser> Then the libusb error will go away and you should see mpsee exchange doing something.
2020-04-11T18:16:28 < PaulFertser> (probably reading garbage but still something)
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2020-04-11T18:18:08 < dongs> PaulFertser: found. needs to enable all devices AND uncheck "ignore hubs or composite parents
2020-04-11T18:18:21 < PaulFertser> Yeah
2020-04-11T18:27:12 < Laurenceb> >winusb
2020-04-11T18:27:13 < Laurenceb> uh oh
2020-04-11T18:27:28 < Laurenceb> that stuff makes libusb look nice
2020-04-11T18:29:52 < PaulFertser> Laurenceb: libusb on windows uses winusb driver API.
2020-04-11T18:30:19 < Laurenceb> oh wow ok
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2020-04-11T18:57:00 < dongs> https://www.jma.go.jp/en/quake/3/20200411154834393-12004457.html tokyo just got fucked up
2020-04-11T18:57:31 < englishman> just 5.1? who cares
2020-04-11T18:58:29 < kakimir> that is normal day in there
2020-04-11T19:04:11 < englishman> dongs: another fork, this time for the explicit purpose of renaming the project https://github.com/gretel/EgoFlight
2020-04-11T19:05:20 < BrainDamage> that's fantastic
2020-04-11T19:05:32 < dongs> englishman: people are still fucking aroudn with retarded shitcopters?
2020-04-11T19:05:46 < dongs> i forgot waht the retards naem was who forked baseflight
2020-04-11T19:05:48 < dongs> the french fag
2020-04-11T19:05:50 < dongs> is he still alive
2020-04-11T19:06:02 < englishman> Clifton?
2020-04-11T19:06:05 < dongs> yeah
2020-04-11T19:06:06 < dongs> that
2020-04-11T19:06:09 < dongs> oh UK nmaybe
2020-04-11T19:09:41 < dongs> englishman: the fuck is emuflight
2020-04-11T19:09:44 < dongs> holy shit so many folders in sores
2020-04-11T19:09:50 < dongs> is it some openpilot fork
2020-04-11T19:10:02 < dongs> HAHA unit tests
2020-04-11T19:10:04 < dongs> in C++
2020-04-11T19:10:05 < dongs> oh wow
2020-04-11T19:11:34 < englishman> apparently it's another baseflight fork. just heard of it today
2020-04-11T19:14:34 < srk> lol
2020-04-11T19:14:55 < dongs> there's like 20 files in common/
2020-04-11T19:14:59 < dongs> that all can just be a single file
2020-04-11T19:15:28 < srk> they think it helps with the quality of the fw
2020-04-11T19:15:41 < dongs> but its CLEANCODE
2020-04-11T19:16:03 < srk> put a Code Quality 10/10 badge
2020-04-11T19:16:07 < srk> on it
2020-04-11T19:16:10 < dongs> nigger.c void setNigger(bool onoff) { UNUSED(onoff); }
2020-04-11T19:16:13 < Cracki> my C++ is rusty. did they just reinvent the reinterpret_cast? https://github.com/gretel/EgoFlight/blob/master/src/main/common/encoding.c
2020-04-11T19:17:18 < dongs> can't you just literally do *(uint32_t *)somefloat; to get same thing?
2020-04-11T19:17:23 < dongs> er &somefloat
2020-04-11T19:17:26 < Cracki> yes
2020-04-11T19:17:56 < c10ud^> that's a warning or error in c++
2020-04-11T19:18:06 < Cracki> if a float and uint32 are ever not both 4 bytes wide... a union would give you some safety then
2020-04-11T19:18:20 < c10ud^> but yes you could just c++cast them
2020-04-11T19:18:30 < dongs> < c10ud^> that's a warning or error in c++
2020-04-11T19:18:34 < dongs> nobody cares about C++ tho
2020-04-11T19:18:34 < Cracki> reinterpret_cast shouldn't be a warning I think
2020-04-11T19:19:11 < dongs> oh well bedtime
2020-04-11T19:19:31 < c10ud^> well I skimmed and saw c++ in the chat so..
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2020-04-11T19:19:59 < c10ud^> yes Cracki I was referring to the c ism dongs mentioned
2020-04-11T19:20:07 < Cracki> eh, they're fine
2020-04-11T19:20:17 < Cracki> C is assembly with makeup
2020-04-11T19:20:27 < c10ud^> everytime I switch from c to c++ I get angry it complains about that kind of stuff
2020-04-11T19:20:45 < Cracki> avoiding impldef and undef behavior just makes you neurotic
2020-04-11T19:20:50 < c10ud^> but then I'm too lazy to tweak the compiler
2020-04-11T19:21:35 < Rajko> new c++ has bit_cast for exactly this purpose (int to float without actually treating as number)
2020-04-11T19:21:59 < Rajko> c10ud^, thats not a warning or error in C++
2020-04-11T19:21:59 < Cracki> what's reinterpret_cast then
2020-04-11T19:22:02 < Rajko> C casts work the same as in C
2020-04-11T19:22:07 < Rajko> Cracki, you need to go through a pointer for that
2020-04-11T19:22:13 < Cracki> ah
2020-04-11T19:22:26 < Cracki> ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
2020-04-11T19:22:43 < Cracki> spares you from needing a temp variable I guess
2020-04-11T19:22:50 < srk> hehe  Add USB driver for GD32VF103
2020-04-11T19:22:56 < srk> chopstx
2020-04-11T19:24:25 < srk> not even that awful https://salsa.debian.org/gnuk-team/chopstx/chopstx/-/commit/228d1d06ce835b5cbfd21f88480be0e01de8b3c6
2020-04-11T19:26:30 < c10ud^> TestApp/main.cpp:12:14: warning: dereferencing type-punned pointer will break strict-aliasing rules [-Wstrict-aliasing]
2020-04-11T19:26:30 < c10ud^>    12 | float foo = *(float *) &meh;
2020-04-11T19:26:30 < c10ud^>       |              ^~~~~~~~~~~~~~
2020-04-11T19:26:33 < c10ud^> Rajko, ^
2020-04-11T19:27:04 < zyp> reinterpret_cast doesn't get you out of strict-aliasing rules, does it?
2020-04-11T19:27:06 < c10ud^> dunno if it's some Qt-enabled option
2020-04-11T19:27:13 < zyp> should get same warning in either case
2020-04-11T19:27:15 < c10ud^> static_cast does 
2020-04-11T19:27:20 < Rajko> imagine having strict aliasing on
2020-04-11T19:27:26 < Rajko> its the same warning in C too then
2020-04-11T19:27:32 < Rajko> as its not a c++ specific warning
2020-04-11T19:27:35 < zyp> c10ud^, static_cast is different
2020-04-11T19:27:50 < Rajko> you cant static cast unrelated types
2020-04-11T19:28:13 < c10ud^> you're right
2020-04-11T19:28:26 < c10ud^> how tf did I fix this last time? i dont remember
2020-04-11T19:28:42 < Rajko> if you really want to be strict aliasing compliant
2020-04-11T19:28:43 < c10ud^> btw maybe I didn't get it in c because some lax options
2020-04-11T19:28:45 < Rajko> you memcpy
2020-04-11T19:29:02 < Rajko> even unions are not exactly safe all the time
2020-04-11T19:29:17 < Rajko> or you just pass -fno-strict-aliasing to compiler
2020-04-11T19:29:35 < Rajko> since theres a lot of pointer reinterpretation going on in mcu
2020-04-11T19:30:17 < c10ud^> maybe that's why I dont get it when stm32ing
2020-04-11T19:31:47 < dongs> c10ud^: meh is uint32_t?
2020-04-11T19:31:54 < c10ud^> y
2020-04-11T19:32:07 < c10ud^> or int
2020-04-11T19:32:18 < c10ud^> just closed...meh
2020-04-11T19:34:53 < c10ud^> weirdly I don't get it on godbolt
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2020-04-11T19:56:36 < catphish> i must have had a stroke, i just set up a project with cubeide, hal and lwip and i'm rather enjoying it
2020-04-11T19:57:28 < kakimir> just corona
2020-04-11T19:57:41 < kakimir> you have fever delirium
2020-04-11T20:08:48 < friendofafriend> I'm submerged in a tank of hand sanitizer, wearing SCUBA gear.
2020-04-11T20:11:16 < kakimir> you need P3 level filters to your scuba
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2020-04-11T20:22:09 < catphish> apart from the fact that lwip isn't using the MAC configured from the HAL
2020-04-11T20:22:15 < catphish> i'm sure i'll get to grips with it
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2020-04-11T20:30:26 < Steffanx> Until there are simple things that do not work properly catphish 
2020-04-11T20:31:17 < Cracki> catphish, let me know if you figure out if/how this eclipse shit can create a .c and .h file at the same time
2020-04-11T20:31:37 < Cracki> I find it tedious to open the same file creation dialog twice
2020-04-11T20:31:38 < Steffanx> Its OK if it had a way to apply patches to the generated files automatically.  Now it just overwrites the files you edited when some file.
2020-04-11T20:32:05 < Steffanx> *when you regenerate the project
2020-04-11T20:32:06 < Cracki> I am also missing a way to create a declaration in the header for a function, or a function skeleton for a given declaration
2020-04-11T20:34:58 < catphish> ah, found it, this code is a hideous mess, my love of ST auto generated code just came to a sudden end
2020-04-11T20:35:07 < Cracki> :D
2020-04-11T20:35:10 < Cracki> fill in the blanks
2020-04-11T20:35:55 < catphish> why would they generate a header file with a MAC address in it, and a C file with a hardcoded (and different) address :|
2020-04-11T20:36:10 < Cracki> I wish their generated code for USB CDC would be a little less barebones. it doesn't even give me buffering
2020-04-11T20:38:27 < catphish> should i just use arduino instead :p
2020-04-11T20:38:50 < Cracki> >_>
2020-04-11T20:39:55 < Cracki> I still have to put "eeprom emulation" into this thing. I hope I don't have to fuck with a linker script... and if I do, I hope cubemx leaves it the fuck alone
2020-04-11T20:49:38 < catphish> perhaps i'm try going back to my "write every single thing yourself because you hate everyone and everything" stack
2020-04-11T20:51:11 < qyx> so your enthusiasm lasted for about70 minutes
2020-04-11T20:51:34 < qyx> *50
2020-04-11T20:54:10 < Steffanx> haha
2020-04-11T20:56:58 < Steffanx> you can still do your own MAC handling and feed it into lwip..
2020-04-11T20:57:15 < Steffanx> or wahtever stack it hot nowadays
2020-04-11T21:00:48 < catphish> i'll play with it at low level for a while
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2020-04-11T21:15:51 < kakimir> catphish: have you started motorcycling?
2020-04-11T21:17:19 < catphish> kakimir: about 10 years ago
2020-04-11T21:17:37 < kakimir> for this ride season
2020-04-11T21:17:45 < catphish> oh, yes
2020-04-11T21:17:52 < catphish> but my new bike is cursed
2020-04-11T21:18:27 < catphish> i took it for one ride last year after buying it, the next day the weather turned and i had to store it for winter
2020-04-11T21:18:40 < catphish> i took it for one ride this year, the next day the country was on lockdown
2020-04-11T21:19:12 < catphish> so "yes and no"
2020-04-11T21:19:17 < kakimir> just ride
2020-04-11T21:19:41 < catphish> i can't legally go anywhere
2020-04-11T21:20:01 < kakimir> yes
2020-04-11T21:20:10 < kakimir> I didn't say you legally could
2020-04-11T21:20:14 < catphish> lol
2020-04-11T21:20:25 < catphish> i'd never break the law when motorcycling ;)
2020-04-11T21:23:33 < kakimir> you have never even broke a speed limit ;)
2020-04-11T21:25:51 < catphish> what's the default clock setup on this f4?
2020-04-11T21:29:44 < catphish> "After a system reset, the HSI oscillator is selected as the system clock."
2020-04-11T21:35:08 < catphish> ah, my confusion was that this default config was invalid because it's not fast enough for ethernet, makes sense now
2020-04-11T21:54:55 < qyx> f1c100s adventures #2: disabled file locking in the kernel.
2020-04-11T21:55:05 < qyx> as a result, pppd doesn't work
2020-04-11T21:58:15 < friendofafriend> "Can't legally go anywhere" in what country?
2020-04-11T22:10:10 < Steffanx> britbongland.
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2020-04-11T22:31:08 < catphish> arfgh st-flash seems to be missing from ubuntu :(
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2020-04-11T22:46:30 < kakimir> qyx: what is the deal with f1c100?
2020-04-11T22:46:36 < kakimir> it's really mediocre chip
2020-04-11T22:46:38 < kakimir> and old
2020-04-11T22:46:58 < kakimir> and I don't see them comming at 1usd a piece
2020-04-11T22:48:50 < zyp> it's low complexity
2020-04-11T22:49:47 < kakimir> how?
2020-04-11T22:49:56 < zyp> it's a qfp with embedded sdram so you don't need to deal with bga fanout or memory routing
2020-04-11T22:50:18 < zyp> just power it up, give it something to boot from and go
2020-04-11T22:50:20 < kakimir> ah.. I was just saying you still need to configure ddr phy
2020-04-11T22:50:44 < qyx> I don't
2020-04-11T22:50:55 < qyx> theres uboot for thispurpose
2020-04-11T22:51:10 < qyx> it is $1 and as zyp said, all-in-one qfn
2020-04-11T22:51:21 < zyp> looks qfp to me
2020-04-11T22:52:12 < qyx> qfn to me
2020-04-11T22:52:23 < zyp> oh, right, just found the qfn variant
2020-04-11T22:52:28 < zyp> so it comes as both
2020-04-11T22:52:33 < qyx> wat
2020-04-11T22:52:40 < qyx> my google images shows qfn only
2020-04-11T22:52:59 < qyx> do you have a pic?
2020-04-11T22:53:06 < zyp> aliexpress has plenty of both
2020-04-11T22:53:09 < qyx> and isn't it V3s by any chance?
2020-04-11T22:53:20 < qyx> (that one is qfp)
2020-04-11T22:53:25 < zyp> e.g. https://www.aliexpress.com/item/4000045684536.html
2020-04-11T22:53:33 < zyp> it says f1c100, so I assume that's what it is
2020-04-11T22:54:08 < zyp> even marked c100: https://www.aliexpress.com/item/32846988019.html
2020-04-11T22:54:13 < qyx> and the overview says BGA
2020-04-11T22:54:17 < zyp> haha
2020-04-11T22:54:33 < qyx> pure lies
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2020-04-11T22:56:32 < catphish> how does one calculate FLASH_ACR_LATENCY
2020-04-11T22:58:05 < zyp> that's number of wait states required to access flash, is it?
2020-04-11T22:58:09 < catphish> meh, trial and error worked :)
2020-04-11T22:58:14 < catphish> yes it is
2020-04-11T22:58:41 < zyp> I think flash speed is something like 30 MHz, so SYSCLK <= 30 needs 0WS, 30..60 needs 1 and so on
2020-04-11T22:59:02 < zyp> depending on which particular stm32 we're talking about
2020-04-11T22:59:07 < zyp> IIRC f4 is 30
2020-04-11T22:59:08 < catphish> mine must be faster than that
2020-04-11T22:59:35 < catphish> i'm running it at 3 wait states, which i think means 4 cycles, at 180MHz
2020-04-11T23:00:06 < catphish> it's also possible i'm running it too fast and shoudn't
2020-04-11T23:00:36 < zyp> stm32 can generally handle a bit of overclocking
2020-04-11T23:00:47 < zyp> after all, the specced speed is supposed to cover entire temp range
2020-04-11T23:00:55 < zyp> anyway, what stm32 is this?
2020-04-11T23:01:04 < catphish> f439zi
2020-04-11T23:01:10 < zyp> ah
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2020-04-11T23:01:34 < catphish> seems like a nice chip, i'm planning to play with ethernet using this nucleo board
2020-04-11T23:03:39 < catphish> interestingly, the datasheet claims the ART accelerator handles this
2020-04-11T23:03:56 < catphish> "Adaptive real-time accelerator (ART AcceleratorTM) allowing 0-wait state execution from Flash memory"
2020-04-11T23:04:04 < zyp> https://www.st.com/resource/en/reference_manual/dm00031020-stm32f405415-stm32f407417-stm32f427437-and-stm32f429439-advanced-armbased-32bit-mcus-stmicroelectronics.pdf <- page 81
2020-04-11T23:04:14 < zyp> it's 30 at 2.7V and up, less at lower voltages
2020-04-11T23:04:48 < zyp> don't read the marketingspeak too literally
2020-04-11T23:05:00 < catphish> lol
2020-04-11T23:06:02 < catphish> i'll play safe and set it to 5 wait states then, thanks
2020-04-11T23:06:42 < zyp> ART is a cache, the flash is 128 bit wide at 30 MHz, which means you can effectively fetch 32-bit values at a rate of 120 MHz as long as they are all cache hits
2020-04-11T23:07:11 < zyp> and since thumb instructions are 16 bit, you'll even get two per 32-bit fetch
2020-04-11T23:07:13 < catphish> makes sense, but seems useless if it crashes when it fails
2020-04-11T23:07:31 < zyp> what makes you think it crash?
2020-04-11T23:07:58 < catphish> well that's what happens if i set too low a value in FLASH_ACR_LATENCY
2020-04-11T23:08:10 < zyp> the 0 wait state marketingspeak is assuming cache hits/prefetching/whatever
2020-04-11T23:08:20 < zyp> and has nothing to do with the ACR value
2020-04-11T23:08:37 < catphish> oh i see
2020-04-11T23:08:57 < zyp> i.e. the cpu can fetch from the cache with 0 wait states, the cache will fetch from the flash with 5 wait states
2020-04-11T23:09:05 < catphish> so it'll prefetch at the specified latency then and cache automatically
2020-04-11T23:09:12 < catphish> yeah i see, soon
2020-04-11T23:09:20 < catphish> i'll see if i can enable that
2020-04-11T23:09:21  * con3 hands out muffins
2020-04-11T23:09:36 < zyp> and of course, as with any cache, prefetching is not gonna be perfect
2020-04-11T23:09:45 < zyp> but still
2020-04-11T23:09:55 < catphish> sounds good anyway
2020-04-11T23:10:21 < zyp> I don't really bother even thinking about it in practice, my stuff doesn't tend to be cpu-bottlenecked
2020-04-11T23:10:28 < zyp> or memory-bottlenecked rather
2020-04-11T23:10:33 < catphish> mine certainly won't be!
2020-04-11T23:10:52 < catphish> i'm only even bothering with the PLL because i need 25MHz+ for ethernet
2020-04-11T23:11:15 < catphish> but figured i'd crank it up to 180MHz for the fun of it
2020-04-11T23:11:19 < zyp> haha
2020-04-11T23:12:10 < zyp> to be fair, faster execution means less network latency, since you can reply faster :)
2020-04-11T23:12:24 < zyp> might be worthwhile to reduce latency even if you don't need the throughput
2020-04-11T23:13:45 < zyp> by the way, if you look at the page after the one I linked you to, it has a more truthful description of the ART
2020-04-11T23:14:10 < zyp> «To release the processor full performance, the accelerator implements an instruction prefetch queue and branch cache which increases program execution speed from the 128- bit Flash memory. Based on CoreMark benchmark, the performance achieved thanks to the ART accelerator is equivalent to 0 wait state program execution from Flash memory at a CPU frequency up to 180 MHz.»
2020-04-11T23:14:36 < catphish> i started on a PCB https://i.imgur.com/SwWLXLs.png but i'll probably just make a carrier for the nucleo, since this isn't for distribution
2020-04-11T23:15:11 < zyp> aww, you've already routed the phy, why not fab it? :)
2020-04-11T23:16:03 < catphish> it's not complete, the PHY<->STM32 routes are missing
2020-04-11T23:16:07 < catphish> and they'll be messy
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2020-04-11T23:16:24 < catphish> i only did the routes that look nice :)
2020-04-11T23:17:06 < catphish> i also used TO220s totally unnecessaryly for things that could have been tiny :)
2020-04-11T23:17:11 < catphish> sometimes i just like drawing stuff
2020-04-11T23:24:11 < qyx> probably the worst sch I have seen https://dl.sipeed.com/LICHEE/Nano/HDK/lichee_nano_8.16(Schematic).pdf
2020-04-11T23:25:35 < zyp> then you haven't seen many bad schematics
2020-04-11T23:28:12 < qyx> you dare not place ground symbols upside down
2020-04-11T23:28:23 < zyp> haha
2020-04-11T23:30:59 < Steffanx> i expected something much worse
2020-04-11T23:31:54 < Steffanx> Like that schematic at work, made in kicad. Where they routed everything into a bus. And then routed that bus all over the place. Loved it.
2020-04-11T23:32:36 < kakimir> I have done A2 size schematics
2020-04-11T23:32:41 < kakimir> absolutelly packed
2020-04-11T23:32:50 < kakimir> every square millimeter used
2020-04-11T23:33:11 < Steffanx> Did you print it?
2020-04-11T23:33:33 < zyp> unless you're using free version of eagle or some shit, there's no point in packing everything on one sheet
2020-04-11T23:33:53 < zyp> IIRC multiple sheets is a paid feature in eagle
2020-04-11T23:34:02 < Steffanx> You might be right.
2020-04-11T23:34:12 < Steffanx> not sure if it still like that though
2020-04-11T23:34:14 < kakimir> Steffanx: no I did nothing with it
2020-04-11T23:34:39 < zyp> Steffanx, I don't know either, haven't touched eagle in forever
2020-04-11T23:34:58 < zyp> not since before autodesk bought it
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2020-04-11T23:49:03 < kakimir> how do I calculate impendance if there is no reference plane?
2020-04-11T23:49:09 < kakimir> in flat cable
2020-04-11T23:50:27 < zyp> I guess you have the signal between two grounds then? calculate against them
2020-04-11T23:52:26 < kakimir> I have one gnd in 24pin cable
2020-04-11T23:52:56 < kakimir> how does this shiet work anyway.. they use a ton of grounds in flat cables?
2020-04-11T23:53:19 < kakimir> or 2layer cable?
2020-04-11T23:53:42 < zyp> it all depends how good you want it and how much you're paying
2020-04-11T23:53:59 < zyp> if impedance doesn't matter, sure a single ground is fine
2020-04-11T23:54:09 < zyp> interleaved grounds are common
2020-04-11T23:54:44 < zyp> and multilayer shit also exists
2020-04-11T23:55:10 < kakimir> over 200ohms
2020-04-11T23:55:16 < kakimir> not good man
2020-04-11T23:55:21 < kakimir> not good
2020-04-11T23:55:44 < zyp> what are you doing anyway?
2020-04-11T23:59:06 < kakimir> https://drive.google.com/file/d/1DxDlFRFwPvDL27jfVFxg56w1-EIJdZh-/view?usp=sharing
--- Day changed Sun Apr 12 2020
2020-04-12T00:00:13 < zyp> ah
2020-04-12T00:00:27 < zyp> did you get the versa yet?
2020-04-12T00:00:57 < qyx> your date is not iso8601 compatible
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2020-04-12T00:01:22 < kakimir> qyx how so?
2020-04-12T00:01:38 < kakimir> zyp: I think I will see pcb order first
2020-04-12T00:01:42 < qyx> https://xkcd.com/1179/
2020-04-12T00:04:46 < catphish> well ethernet looks nontrivial :)
2020-04-12T00:04:55 < zyp> what part of it?
2020-04-12T00:05:21 < catphish> i don't know yet, the manual is just scaring me
2020-04-12T00:05:43 < zyp> IME ethernet is pretty trivial, complexity comes when you stack TCP on top of it
2020-04-12T00:05:48 < kakimir> I should have made single target connector to connect flexpcb to it and another end of flexpcb would have dummy tsop48
2020-04-12T00:06:21 < kakimir> as there is no getting around buying custom fpc
2020-04-12T00:06:27 < zyp> IME hooking up a RMII PHY is pretty trivial, configuring the ethernet peripheral to send and receive frames is pretty trivial
2020-04-12T00:06:53 < zyp> hmm
2020-04-12T00:07:03 < zyp> I think I have some really barebones ethernet code for stm32 somewhere
2020-04-12T00:07:18 < qyx> kakimir: what via dia is on that board
2020-04-12T00:07:59 < zyp> ah, yes
2020-04-12T00:08:26 < zyp> https://cgit.jvnv.net/laks_demo/tree/main.cpp?h=ethernet <- here's some minimal stm32 code that sets up the peripheral and logs RX events
2020-04-12T00:09:04 < catphish> thanks zyp 
2020-04-12T00:09:21 < catphish> your code always helps me make sense of things
2020-04-12T00:09:22 < qyx> in the struppy language
2020-04-12T00:09:35 < catphish> it's pleasantly minimal like mine :)
2020-04-12T00:09:39 < kakimir> qyx: 0.3 hole
2020-04-12T00:09:42 < kakimir> 0.6dia
2020-04-12T00:11:28 < zyp> catphish, it's not doing interrupts though, just polling the next dma descriptor
2020-04-12T00:11:43 < zyp> the dma engine in the ethernet peripheral takes a linked list of descriptors
2020-04-12T00:12:00 < zyp> so I'm setting up two as a ringbuffer for reception
2020-04-12T00:12:29 < catphish> zyp: that's exactly what i want :)
2020-04-12T00:12:42 < catphish> though i might add some interrupts
2020-04-12T00:12:45 < zyp> yeah, except it's probably not what you should do in practice :)
2020-04-12T00:12:58 < catphish> i actually love polling
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2020-04-12T00:13:14 < catphish> i call it an event loop so it sounds less shit :)
2020-04-12T00:13:40 < catphish> but for many applications it's much neater than a main thread + interrupts
2020-04-12T00:14:29 < zyp> yeah
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2020-04-12T00:15:05 < catphish> this app is so simple it makes no difference either way
2020-04-12T00:15:28 < catphish> so polling wins
2020-04-12T00:16:14 < catphish> i also have no desire to use TCP, so i can probably write my own network stack easily enough once i have ethernet working
2020-04-12T00:18:18 < zyp> yeah, as long as you use UDP without fragmentation, everything is easy
2020-04-12T00:18:32 < catphish> zyp: one day i really should just start using your OS
2020-04-12T00:18:37 < catphish> as should ST :)
2020-04-12T00:24:33 < zyp> it's not very maintained
2020-04-12T00:25:10 < zyp> I haven't done a lot of stuff using it lately
2020-04-12T00:25:28 < catphish> well hopefully this eth code works :)
2020-04-12T00:26:05 < zyp> that's probably around an afternoon's worth of work :p
2020-04-12T00:27:15 < catphish> well lets hope it works as described, wouldn't want a lawsuit on our hands
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2020-04-12T00:29:43 < karlp> srk: chopstx is gnarly, just don't go looking at it's guts :)
2020-04-12T00:32:34 < zyp> cool, now I got a capture with mismatched edges between dp/dm: https://bin.jvnv.net/file/tBIv4.png
2020-04-12T00:32:50 < zyp> looks like the deserializer is handling it correctly
2020-04-12T00:57:42 < catphish> zyp: your code works perfectly!
2020-04-12T00:57:49 < zyp> nice
2020-04-12T01:00:06 < catphish> now just the rest of the stack
2020-04-12T01:00:15 < catphish> hopefully TX is pretty much the same
2020-04-12T01:00:48 < karlp> srk: iirc, chopstx is also gpl...
2020-04-12T01:00:50 < zyp> yeah, TX should work exactly the same as RX, except you fill the buffer and dma engine empties it
2020-04-12T01:02:26 < catphish> beautiful, it's like USB, except less awful
2020-04-12T01:02:53 < zyp> haha
2020-04-12T01:04:49 < karlp> somewhere else I saw a stm32 usb stack in assembly
2020-04-12T01:04:54 < karlp> cant' find it now though :|
2020-04-12T01:05:07 < catphish> it's a truly terrible peripheral compared to the others
2020-04-12T01:05:21 < catphish> it works, but programming it is messy
2020-04-12T01:05:40 < zyp> which of them? st_usbfs or dwc_otg?
2020-04-12T01:06:07 < catphish> i only looked at the non-otg one
2020-04-12T01:06:16 < zyp> either way I'm pretty sure it's far from the worst :)
2020-04-12T01:06:21 < qyx> the conceptual drawing is finished https://bin.jvnv.net/file/p2S2O.jpg
2020-04-12T01:07:53 < zyp> why both a spi can mac and a can phy for the stm32? why not just let the stm32 serve as the can mac for the other thing?
2020-04-12T01:08:28 < qyx> yeah
2020-04-12T01:08:31 < qyx> I would, but
2020-04-12T01:08:45 < qyx> no spare usb to connect the STM32 to the allwhinner
2020-04-12T01:08:52 < qyx> neither a spare usart
2020-04-12T01:08:54 < qyx> neither a spare spi
2020-04-12T01:09:04 < zyp> on the stm32?
2020-04-12T01:09:04 < qyx> hm
2020-04-12T01:09:12 < qyx> on the allwinner
2020-04-12T01:09:16 < zyp> you clearly have a spare spi on the allwinner
2020-04-12T01:09:24 < qyx> true :>
2020-04-12T01:09:24 < zyp> if you remove the can mac :)
2020-04-12T01:09:34 < qyx> but then how to access the thing
2020-04-12T01:09:37 < qyx> too much code to write
2020-04-12T01:10:14 < zyp> where's usb anyway? don't see any usb lines
2020-04-12T01:10:46 < qyx> the stm32 acts as a simple watchdog, rtc and a wakeup by i2c
2020-04-12T01:10:47 < englishman> protobufs between the stm and allwhiner
2020-04-12T01:11:00 < qyx> I forgot to draw the otg port, yes
2020-04-12T01:11:01 < englishman> encapsulating can messages
2020-04-12T01:11:08 < karlp> simple watchdog would be w watchdog chip surely, not something with sw :)
2020-04-12T01:11:34 < qyx> I want to be able to wake up linux with the modem
2020-04-12T01:11:42 < zyp> having a management mcu simplifies stuff a lot though
2020-04-12T01:11:48 < qyx> also with i2c message
2020-04-12T01:12:00 < qyx> I also want to power down the switchers
2020-04-12T01:12:21 < qyx> otherwise I would need to have a dedicated watchdog, power management, RTC
2020-04-12T01:12:37 < qyx> and probably I would still not manage to cover all my wishes
2020-04-12T01:12:51 < zyp> I'm thinking about putting a g0 to manage power on the fpga board I'm planning
2020-04-12T01:13:18 < englishman> got any plans for in situ stm32 firmware update
2020-04-12T01:13:21 < zyp> both to handle PD comms and controlling the regulators
2020-04-12T01:13:40 < qyx> englishman: using a linux supported can mac -> 0 lines of code to write
2020-04-12T01:13:55 < zyp> or possibly a larger stm32 that also got usb, then use that for jtag as well
2020-04-12T01:13:57 < englishman> why stm32 as well?
2020-04-12T01:14:48 < qyx> because the thing should be able to communicate with the rest of the system even when the linux is not running
2020-04-12T01:14:59 < qyx> meh
2020-04-12T01:15:20 < qyx> if I replaced the damned f1c100s with something less shitty it would be beaser
2020-04-12T01:15:52 < qyx> or if I was willing to write half a million of lines, I would use stm32 alone
2020-04-12T01:16:21 < englishman> microchip polarfire
2020-04-12T01:16:26 < englishman> *microsemi
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2020-04-12T01:20:47 < kakimir> how thick FPC I should use?
2020-04-12T01:21:10 < kakimir> total thickness with stiffener should be 0.3mm
2020-04-12T01:21:28 < kakimir> 0.1mm and 0.2mm stiffener?
2020-04-12T01:21:33 < kakimir> 0.15/0.15?
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2020-04-12T01:36:02 < karlp> zyp: if you want a management mcu, just get the bigger allwinners, they have one onboard :)
2020-04-12T01:36:29 < zyp> karlp, for my fpga stuff, not allwinner
2020-04-12T01:36:51 < karlp> was more implying on your comment on my reply to qyxð's watchdog stm32
2020-04-12T01:37:16 < karlp> "just instance another core" on your fpga right ;)
2020-04-12T01:37:44 < zyp> yeah, except part of the point is to turn on power to the fpga
2020-04-12T01:38:08 < qyx> whsts this https://www.mouser.sk/ProductDetail/Seeed-Studio/102110318?qs=sGAEpiMZZMsyLT%2FX9x4G6yDWTlZvTnMrpGrv7ojkkI7j72CVULKkMg%3D%3D
2020-04-12T01:38:22 < qyx> https://www.seeedstudio.com/Seeed-SoM-STM32MP157C-p-4500.html
2020-04-12T01:38:37 < qyx> meh those connectors
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2020-04-12T01:39:09 < kakimir> sex
2020-04-12T01:39:42 < zyp> nice
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2020-04-12T01:41:44 < kakimir> what the heck is stm32mp
2020-04-12T01:42:03 < zyp> cortex-a+m
2020-04-12T01:42:10 < kakimir> :o
2020-04-12T01:42:19 < kakimir> which A? which M?
2020-04-12T01:42:27 < zyp> A7+M4
2020-04-12T01:42:38 < kakimir> interestings
2020-04-12T01:42:48 < kakimir> can it linux?
2020-04-12T01:42:51 < qyx> yes
2020-04-12T01:42:58 < zyp> that's kinda the point
2020-04-12T01:43:00 < machinehum> Windows CE capable
2020-04-12T01:43:06 < kakimir> so what does M4 do?
2020-04-12T01:43:07 < zyp> run linux on the A7, realtime shit on the M4
2020-04-12T01:43:17 < zyp> anything you want it to
2020-04-12T01:43:26 < machinehum> Windows CE on the A7
2020-04-12T01:43:38 < machinehum> Arduino on the M4
2020-04-12T01:43:38 < mawk> lol
2020-04-12T01:43:55 < mawk> windows CE is for iranian uranium centrifuges
2020-04-12T01:44:02 < mawk> the rest of the world uses linux
2020-04-12T01:44:20 < kakimir> could A7 be halted while low-power real time application runs on M4?
2020-04-12T01:44:28 < kakimir> I mean shut down
2020-04-12T01:44:39 < zyp> presumably
2020-04-12T01:44:51 < kakimir> then ah.. I need linux now to talk to the world
2020-04-12T01:44:52 < kakimir> then boot linux
2020-04-12T01:45:05 < Thorn> kakimir https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLnMKNibPkDnEaqxpyjLGbWqXWpmGBtFZp
2020-04-12T01:45:05 < zyp> hmm, the one with the base board looks a bit interesting: https://www.seeedstudio.com/ODYSSEY-STM32MP157C-p-4464.html
2020-04-12T01:45:14 < zyp> should probably pick that up just to play with
2020-04-12T01:45:40 < kakimir> zyp: how many projects do you have?
2020-04-12T01:45:47 < zyp> all of them
2020-04-12T01:45:57 < zyp> why do you think I never finish anything?
2020-04-12T01:46:48 < kakimir> I don't
2020-04-12T01:48:46 < catphish> stm32mp sounds like it might be nice for what i'm doing
2020-04-12T01:49:05 < catphish> but also overkill
2020-04-12T01:50:40 < machinehum> What ecosystem did st choose to build the os
2020-04-12T01:50:48 < machinehum> Hopefully not that yocto cancer
2020-04-12T01:51:51 < Thorn> >3 x Board-to-Board 70-Pin Connectors
2020-04-12T01:51:59 < Thorn> what connectors are those
2020-04-12T01:52:16 < qyx> machinehum: their own
2020-04-12T01:52:24 < machinehum> oh god
2020-04-12T01:52:32 < kakimir> some basic mezzanine Thorn 
2020-04-12T01:53:03 < karlp> zyp: yeah, I was teasing :)
2020-04-12T01:54:03 < qyx> ok I need to think about the thing during the night
2020-04-12T01:54:09 < qyx> f1c vs imx6ull
2020-04-12T01:54:39 < qyx> the latter is  more sane, more available, has suitable pmic and I can connect modem's RI directly to it
2020-04-12T01:54:52 < qyx> it has rtc, it doesn't eat that much
2020-04-12T01:55:22 < qyx> openocd has native imx gpio support
2020-04-12T01:55:28 < machinehum> Buildroot support looks pretty good
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2020-04-12T01:59:34 < karlp> so.. the question as always is... how manhy pieces are you building?
2020-04-12T01:59:51 < karlp> because you've got to justify that f1c cost saving somehow....
2020-04-12T02:00:15 < qyx> thats not about cost savings
2020-04-12T02:00:35 < qyx> f1c is so dumb and simple that its power draw is super low
2020-04-12T02:00:35 < karlp> smaller too I guessÐ?
2020-04-12T02:01:52 < qyx> I do not want super power and very features, much ram
2020-04-12T02:02:03 < Mangy_Dog> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=97bCrlfOHv8  thats enough programming for now... time to work on the stargate
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2020-04-12T02:02:11 < qyx> I just want to run lunix to save some work
2020-04-12T02:03:56 < qyx> I would use omega2s again, but nearly 200mA in idle
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2020-04-12T02:07:43 < Steffanx> Don't you want to play 1080p videos? 
2020-04-12T02:07:48 < kakimir> https://drive.google.com/file/d/1gwf1IWkiVkM5yzVtFnWahyZuARj0V-9J/view?usp=sharing why didn't substitute expression mechanism fill those after I added those to footprints?
2020-04-12T02:07:59 < Mangy_Dog> its only a 320 240 screen
2020-04-12T02:08:02 < Mangy_Dog> 2.8 inch
2020-04-12T02:08:04 < Mangy_Dog> and its not video
2020-04-12T02:08:08 < Mangy_Dog> its programmed
2020-04-12T02:08:18 < Steffanx> I mean qyx with his f1c. It can do that.
2020-04-12T02:08:25 < Steffanx> For daamn cheap
2020-04-12T02:08:27 < Mangy_Dog> f1c?
2020-04-12T02:09:20 < kakimir> 1080p h264?
2020-04-12T02:09:22 < Steffanx> Some allwiner ic
2020-04-12T02:09:24 < kakimir> I assume
2020-04-12T02:09:31 < Steffanx> Yeah kaki
2020-04-12T02:09:42 < kakimir> why would he want to
2020-04-12T02:10:08 < Steffanx> Because it can do it
2020-04-12T02:10:26 < Mangy_Dog> ahh
2020-04-12T02:10:31 < Mangy_Dog> well this is all embedded
2020-04-12T02:10:42 < Mangy_Dog> and not a video
2020-04-12T02:28:11 < kakimir> https://drive.google.com/file/d/1gwf1IWkiVkM5yzVtFnWahyZuARj0V-9J/view?usp=sharing why didn't substitute expression mechanism fill those after I added those to footprints?
2020-04-12T02:39:45 < Steffanx> Have python installed?
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2020-04-12T02:44:56 < zyp> starting to recognize package types now: https://bin.jvnv.net/file/Qgqde.png :)
2020-04-12T02:45:25 < zyp> bit more work and then I can start replying too
2020-04-12T02:45:56 < kakimir> Steffanx: does my bubuntu have python installed.. let me think about it
2020-04-12T02:46:01 < kakimir> yes
2020-04-12T02:50:24 -!- Mangy_Dog [Mangy_Dog@unaffiliated/mangy-dog/x-3069595] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds]
2020-04-12T02:54:04 < Thorn> coronavirus theme song https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f_UFqw3vm0s
2020-04-12T03:06:13 < kakimir> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lO_aLfWZA88 some virus song?
2020-04-12T03:12:23 < karlp> this is the covid song in iceland: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h5Xnb_63Tn0
2020-04-12T03:12:54 < kakimir> Thorn: this is not it.. Imagine plague
2020-04-12T03:13:53 < kakimir> airliners fly normally, people interact normally, situation is "under control"
2020-04-12T03:14:12 < kakimir> until collapse
2020-04-12T03:14:54 < kakimir> this one is just a major nuisance
2020-04-12T03:18:01 < kakimir> after this one methods are developed against similar event
2020-04-12T03:18:26 < kakimir> imagine next one being different in character
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2020-04-12T03:27:28 < Steffanx> I'm not gonna share the Dutch corona song. Thinking about it makes me almost cry.
2020-04-12T03:27:38 < Steffanx> Because its AWFUL
2020-04-12T03:28:24 < kakimir> ofc it is
2020-04-12T03:35:21 < catphish> zyp: transmit seems not to be so easy :(
2020-04-12T03:41:59 < catphish> unfortunately since my only available debug tool is LEDs, i don't think i'll succeed in fixing it just yet :)
2020-04-12T03:42:35 < catphish> got the general idea though https://paste.ubuntu.com/p/WcD27Vt7Yv/
2020-04-12T03:43:48 < kakimir> your only development tool is leds?
2020-04-12T03:43:55 < kakimir> what are you doing?
2020-04-12T03:44:04 < catphish> my code usually works :)
2020-04-12T03:44:06 < kakimir> we have talked about this
2020-04-12T03:44:13 < kakimir> get a debugger
2020-04-12T03:44:17 < catphish> i do need a debugger
2020-04-12T03:44:27 < kakimir> jlink edu
2020-04-12T03:44:28 < catphish> never found one that works :(
2020-04-12T03:44:33 < kakimir> jlink edu
2020-04-12T03:45:09 < kakimir> none of that other bs... legit jlink and propiertary software
2020-04-12T03:46:07 < catphish> with that said, i have a st-link and gdb
2020-04-12T03:46:13 < catphish> so, maybe that
2020-04-12T03:46:17 < kakimir> does it work?
2020-04-12T03:46:40 < catphish> i couldn't make use of it last time i tried, but seems worth trying again
2020-04-12T03:47:36 < catphish> not that i have any objection to buying something better
2020-04-12T03:47:55 < kakimir> imagine just plugging in debugger and installing sweet proprietary software and after that everything just works
2020-04-12T03:48:40 < kakimir> if their webpage for jlink base lists a device - it works
2020-04-12T03:48:50 < kakimir> same devices supported for edu
2020-04-12T03:50:27 < kakimir> https://www.segger.com/products/debug-probes/j-link/technology/cpus-and-devices/overview-of-supported-cpus-and-devices/
2020-04-12T03:50:59 < kakimir> it also works with openocd debugger
2020-04-12T03:51:48 < kakimir> if there is some niche thing you want to implement with openocd
2020-04-12T03:52:01 < kakimir> or generally use it instead of j-link server
2020-04-12T03:54:19 < catphish> openocd works at least, i just need to work out how to use it to fix my problem
2020-04-12T03:55:17 < kakimir> what problem?
2020-04-12T03:56:35 < catphish> well in the first instance i want to dump some memory and see what's in my ethernet descriptors
2020-04-12T03:56:42 < catphish> i guess i'll attach gdb and learn how that works
2020-04-12T03:59:34 < kakimir> it's rather easy but a lot of work to drive around with gdb
2020-04-12T04:00:13 < kakimir> https://www.segger.com/products/development-tools/ozone-j-link-debugger/ with jlink you get this
2020-04-12T04:01:51 < kakimir> that's liek dope how it works.. I just gave .elf for it and it automatically opened sourcefiles and stuff
2020-04-12T04:03:36 < kakimir> like 2 clicks from opening the thing to visual debugging running
2020-04-12T04:04:32 < kakimir> kakinull>
2020-04-12T04:07:45 < catphish> gdb is now giving me the data i crave :)
2020-04-12T04:07:55 < catphish> albeit rather ugly
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2020-04-12T04:27:11 < Steffanx> You can even replace the stlink fw with jlink fw 
2020-04-12T04:27:29 < Steffanx> Segger made a nice little tool for that
2020-04-12T04:28:26 < catphish> so my stm32 thinks it's sending ethernet frames, they're just not arriving, fun
2020-04-12T04:29:51 < kakinull> wireshark?
2020-04-12T04:30:18 < catphish> yes
2020-04-12T04:30:30 < kakinull> cable is okay and ethernet port is okay?
2020-04-12T04:30:47 < catphish> almost certainly
2020-04-12T04:31:08 < kakinull> has link been auto-negotiated?
2020-04-12T04:31:50 < ds2> gdb does that 
2020-04-12T04:32:12 < kakinull> does what?
2020-04-12T04:32:34 < catphish> kakinull: the pc end has auto negotiated, the stm32 MAC is hardcoded to 100/full, packets are received by the stm32, just not transmitted
2020-04-12T04:32:42 < ds2> open sources and stuff
2020-04-12T04:33:05 < ds2> segger has too many "business" limitations
2020-04-12T04:33:16 < catphish> probably a code issue :( but it's certainly processing the buffers and not setting any errors in them
2020-04-12T04:33:16 < kakinull> if it does it does
2020-04-12T04:33:39 < kakinull> force same configuration for PC
2020-04-12T04:34:00 < kakinull> matching configuration
2020-04-12T04:34:27 < kakinull> I have pain in my rectum
2020-04-12T04:34:49 < Steffanx> Are you the new flyback?
2020-04-12T04:35:35 < kakinull> idk.. sometimes I just get this pain in rectum
2020-04-12T04:35:48 < kakinull> it stays for 5min or so
2020-04-12T04:36:25 < Steffanx> You know you don't have to share this stuff uh?
2020-04-12T04:37:05 < Steffanx> Ds2 has his business limitations:P
2020-04-12T04:37:29 < kakinull> maybe I have ass cancer
2020-04-12T04:37:54 < kakinull> fuk
2020-04-12T04:37:55 < Steffanx> I bet you enjoy the stlinkv3 that only works with stm32 targets as well then, ds2
2020-04-12T04:38:07 < Steffanx> Go see a doctor mate
2020-04-12T04:38:24 < Steffanx> Or perhaps its just a sign you sit on your arse too much
2020-04-12T04:39:00 < Steffanx> Sooner or later you will become a real PITA. Flyback is the living example of that.
2020-04-12T04:39:14 < Steffanx> It seems he bettered his life thougg
2020-04-12T04:39:19 < Steffanx> Though*
2020-04-12T04:39:56 < kakinull> what has he done?
2020-04-12T04:40:04 < kakinull> where is he?
2020-04-12T04:40:34 < Steffanx> ##electronics
2020-04-12T04:40:44 < kakinull> ah.. never go there
2020-04-12T04:40:51 < kakinull> just a tip
2020-04-12T04:41:12 < Steffanx> I am there
2020-04-12T04:41:32 < specing> Steffanx: has corvus been unbanned, yet?
2020-04-12T04:41:36 < kakinull> is it civilized there?
2020-04-12T04:42:47 < ds2> Steffanx: yes all very irritating
2020-04-12T04:42:48 < Steffanx> I hardly every read the talks there specing 
2020-04-12T04:42:55 < Steffanx> Don't even know who that is
2020-04-12T04:43:36 < ds2> I have a small pile of jlinks cuz of that business limitation
2020-04-12T04:43:58 < kakinull> send some to catphish
2020-04-12T04:44:23 < ds2> for what processor? each one is locked to a different manufacture
2020-04-12T04:44:52 < Steffanx> Oh who buys those jlinks ?
2020-04-12T04:44:56 < kakinull> wa
2020-04-12T04:44:59 < ds2> never said  bought them
2020-04-12T04:45:06 < kakinull> locked to different manufs?
2020-04-12T04:45:21 < kakinull> are we talking about jlink products or OEM versions?
2020-04-12T04:45:23 < Steffanx> Yeah. Atmel liked it very much
2020-04-12T04:45:28 < ds2> some of them are needed by the mfg's tools so a generic jlink won't work either
2020-04-12T04:45:41 < ds2> Atmel SAM-ICE IIRC is a JLink
2020-04-12T04:45:59 < ds2> ADI has their own... Nordic has their own..all "JLink" 
2020-04-12T04:46:29 < ds2> NXP has the LPC stuff that has "JLink" but it won't work with the Kinetis version
2020-04-12T04:46:35 < ds2> and so forth
2020-04-12T04:47:00 < Steffanx> kakinull: perhaps a more regular life style will help with your health issues. 
2020-04-12T04:47:47 < kakinull> don't get me wrong.. I'm very healthy
2020-04-12T04:48:21 < Steffanx> ds2: Didn't know nxp did it as well
2020-04-12T04:48:42 < kakinull> lpc-link is jlink?
2020-04-12T04:48:59 < Steffanx> Anyway, the real jlink works just fine for me
2020-04-12T04:49:13 < kakinull> I don't think oem on-board jlinks count ds2
2020-04-12T04:49:31 < Steffanx> The atmel jlink isn't on-board 
2020-04-12T04:50:03 < Steffanx> Its the same jlink case except for the colour 
2020-04-12T04:50:48 < Steffanx> Its blue
2020-04-12T04:51:07 < Steffanx> At least the version I touched was
2020-04-12T04:52:34 < ds2> some of them are bareboard but depending on the version and time you got, there are 2 policies
2020-04-12T04:52:59 < ds2> Steffanx: they have 2 revs, both JLinks... one apparently has extensions for the AVR but not the other
2020-04-12T04:53:36 < ds2> On some boards, there is a header to connect to your own board and it is documented. On others, that is expressly prohibited.
2020-04-12T04:54:00 < ds2> Example - Original rev of the NRF51 dev board allows that. Later revs remove that and according to their reps, that is officially not allowed
2020-04-12T04:54:52 < ds2> Steffanx: the Freescale branch offered it as a firmware option... Same with a few of the LPC boards
2020-04-12T05:08:06 < englishman> kakinull: movie recommendation
2020-04-12T05:08:11 < englishman> russiak ark (2002)
2020-04-12T05:08:15 < englishman> russian ark (2002)
2020-04-12T05:10:32 < kakinull> interesting
2020-04-12T05:10:46 < kakinull> it took 1h39min to film?
2020-04-12T05:11:11 < kakinull> can experimental single shot movie be any good?
2020-04-12T05:18:42 < englishman> yes
2020-04-12T05:28:03 < Thorn> https://apolloinrealtime.org/13/
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2020-04-12T05:31:07 < englishman> pretty nuts this would have been the 3rd trip just 9 months after the first
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2020-04-12T05:35:52 < englishman> great website
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2020-04-12T08:33:58 < englishman> Thorn this is some really amazing stuff
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2020-04-12T09:14:49 < englishman> all these people involved are highly skilled and trained and still just fucking winging it
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2020-04-12T10:08:32 < boddax> whos expert linux? ..i need start it from usb and make raw image of hd
2020-04-12T10:12:13 < jadew> https://images-cdn.9gag.com/photo/aj5ogX0_460s.jpg
2020-04-12T10:12:38 < jadew> boddax, so what's stopping you?
2020-04-12T10:14:48 < boddax> tool to backup hd to reuse with virtualbox
2020-04-12T10:15:57 < boddax> dont know wich rescue iso or usb tool to do that
2020-04-12T10:16:43 < jadew> any linux image
2020-04-12T10:17:23 < PaulFertser> boddax: I'd suggest "systemrescuecd" as you can inspect the data with it, connect to internet to check something etc.
2020-04-12T10:17:52 < PaulFertser> boddax: for imaging specifically there's "clonezilla"
2020-04-12T10:18:10 < boddax> all right then wanted to use the backup with virtualbox
2020-04-12T10:18:36 < jadew> can't dd do that?
2020-04-12T10:20:08 < PaulFertser> dd can do that but you might want to dd to network storage or something like that. Or to check what you're dding.
2020-04-12T10:28:47 -!- c10ud^ [~c10ud@emesene/dictator/c10ud] has joined ##stm32
2020-04-12T10:30:39 < jadew> https://www.nytimes.com/2020/04/10/nyregion/new-york-coronavirus-death-count.html
2020-04-12T10:30:41 < boddax> if i can save the raw img to the network much better ..if ever will be able to share folder win10 mission impossible
2020-04-12T10:30:50 < jadew> In the first five days of April, 1,125 people were pronounced dead in their homes or on the street in New York City, more than eight times the deaths recorded during the same period in 2019, according to the Fire Department.
2020-04-12T10:31:12 -!- c10ud [~c10ud@emesene/dictator/c10ud] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds]
2020-04-12T10:31:32 < jadew> Many of these deaths were probably caused by Covid-19, but were not accounted for in the coronavirus tallies given by Gov.
2020-04-12T10:35:22 < zyp> catphish, I'm guessing for TX you might actually have to submit the descriptors after filling them
2020-04-12T10:35:29 < zyp> or idk
2020-04-12T10:35:36 < zyp> haven't touched stm32 ethernet in forever
2020-04-12T10:38:18 < zyp> ah, you probably have to write ETH_DMATPDR to make the DMA engine poll the list of TX descriptors
2020-04-12T10:40:43 < zyp> hmm
2020-04-12T10:41:08 < zyp> but before that becomes a problem, you need to set the ST bit in DMAOMR
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2020-04-12T10:51:36 < catphish> zyp: https://paste.ubuntu.com/p/XDcK9Q5sZJ/
2020-04-12T10:51:41 < catphish> i do all that :(
2020-04-12T10:52:02 < catphish> i'm pretty sure DMA is running, the OWN bit gets cleared every time i submit one
2020-04-12T10:52:15 < catphish> it just doesn't physically transmit
2020-04-12T10:52:36 < catphish> it's like i didn't enable a transmit line, or clock
2020-04-12T10:52:47 < Thorn> is there activity on rmii?
2020-04-12T10:53:29 < zyp> catphish, copying into the tx buffer seems a bit pointless, just point the tx descriptor right at the txframe
2020-04-12T10:53:42 < zyp> not that that's the problem
2020-04-12T10:53:49 < catphish> i haven't looked yet, just woke up, will get a scope on the pin if i can
2020-04-12T10:53:57 < catphish> and oh yeah, duh
2020-04-12T10:54:08 < zyp> also, remember that ethernet packets are minimum 64 bytes
2020-04-12T10:54:24 < catphish> zyp: it has auto padding i believe
2020-04-12T10:54:26 < zyp> it might actually get sent and then dropped by the receiver if you send a smaller one
2020-04-12T10:54:33 < zyp> hmm, maybe it does
2020-04-12T10:54:38 < catphish> but it could be that
2020-04-12T10:54:51 < zyp> the one I use at work doesn't, so I'm doing a bunch of hardcoded manual padding :)
2020-04-12T10:55:30 < zyp> anyway, it's easy to check, just make the packet bigger and retry
2020-04-12T10:57:47 < catphish> no change :(
2020-04-12T10:58:17 < catphish> https://paste.ubuntu.com/p/SnPyRKz4GP/
2020-04-12T10:58:21 < zyp> for workstuff I'm planning to eventually add dynamic descriptor handling and support for scatter-gather operation, which means my tx-function can just append an extra descriptor pointing to a static null-buffer when putting a packet in the tx queue
2020-04-12T11:00:00 < zyp> if I were you now, I'd take a look at the status registers with the debugger
2020-04-12T11:00:13 < catphish> just doing that now
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2020-04-12T11:03:12 < catphish> {status = 806354944 (0x30100000), ctrl = 64, buf = 536870912, next = 536872100}
2020-04-12T11:03:43 < zyp> decimal values are pretty useless
2020-04-12T11:03:56 < zyp> gdb will give you hex if you add a /x to the command
2020-04-12T11:04:03 < catphish> i converted the one that matters, but cool
2020-04-12T11:04:08 < zyp> I always use p/x to print regs and stuff
2020-04-12T11:04:23 < catphish> cool!
2020-04-12T11:04:27 < catphish> $3 = {{status = 0x30100000, ctrl = 0x40, buf = 0x20000000, next = 0x200004a4}, {status = 0x30100000, ctrl = 0x40, buf = 0x20000000, next = 0x20000494}}
2020-04-12T11:05:00 < zyp> that's the tx descriptors?
2020-04-12T11:05:03 < catphish> what's interesting here is that the tx descriptor has no errors, and has its OWN bit cleared but... the other control bits are not cleared
2020-04-12T11:05:05 < catphish> yes
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2020-04-12T11:05:35 < catphish> the manual says all control bits will be cleared when dma writes it back
2020-04-12T11:06:28 < catphish> i'll have a look at the other actual status registers
2020-04-12T11:06:50 < zyp> are you sure it gets set in the first place?
2020-04-12T11:08:09 < catphish> please see line 70 and 71 of https://paste.ubuntu.com/p/SnPyRKz4GP/ - if the length is set, the OWN bit 31 must be
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2020-04-12T11:09:07 < zyp> ah, true
2020-04-12T11:09:16 < catphish> ctrl and status are poorly named here, in fact ->status contains both, and ->ctrl is just the length
2020-04-12T11:09:40 < catphish> but yes, dma must be running here
2020-04-12T11:09:50 < catphish> something is clearing that bit
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2020-04-12T11:12:48 < catphish> alas my debugger doesn't know about the hardware register locations: (gdb) p/x ETH->MACCR No symbol "ETH" in current context.
2020-04-12T11:13:11 < zyp> compile with -ggdb3 or something
2020-04-12T11:13:40 < catphish> oh cool
2020-04-12T11:13:55 < catphish> is there anyhing you don' t know?
2020-04-12T11:14:17 < zyp> yes
2020-04-12T11:15:56 < catphish> that worked anyway
2020-04-12T11:20:12 < catphish> status registers looks like everything is working
2020-04-12T11:21:54 < zyp> what does ETH_DMASR say?
2020-04-12T11:22:17 < catphish> (gdb) p/x ETH->MACSR
2020-04-12T11:22:17 < catphish> $6 = 0x0
2020-04-12T11:22:17 < catphish> (gdb) p/x ETH->DMASR
2020-04-12T11:22:17 < catphish> $7 = 0x6804c4
2020-04-12T11:22:34 < zyp> okay, hang on, let me go through that
2020-04-12T11:23:06 < catphish> i just did, but a second look is welcome, my interpretation is that it's suspended because it has nothing to transmit right now, but otherwise okay
2020-04-12T11:23:28 < catphish> otherwise i'll see if i can find a problem with the port or clocks or anything like that, and get a scope on the RMII if needed
2020-04-12T11:23:33 < catphish> thanks for your assistance!!
2020-04-12T11:25:47 < zyp> hmm
2020-04-12T11:25:58 < zyp> ETS is set, but TS is not
2020-04-12T11:26:02 < catphish> most interestingly bit 10 is set
2020-04-12T11:26:02 < zyp> is that correct?
2020-04-12T11:26:34 < zyp> both bits are rc_w1 and you're not clearing TS
2020-04-12T11:26:35 < catphish> that appears to be the case, that is unexpected!
2020-04-12T11:26:42 < catphish> right
2020-04-12T11:27:20 < zyp> ah
2020-04-12T11:27:22 < zyp> nevermind
2020-04-12T11:27:26 < catphish> no?
2020-04-12T11:27:32 < zyp> Transmit Interrupt (ETH_DMASR register [0]) is set after completing the transmission of a frame that has Interrupt on Completion (TDES1[31]) set in its last descriptor.
2020-04-12T11:27:42 < catphish> ah :)
2020-04-12T11:28:49 < zyp> so yeah, looks like it's transmitting fine
2020-04-12T11:29:07 < zyp> I guess the clearing of other control bits is a mismatch between documentation and hardware
2020-04-12T11:29:34 < catphish> i'm hoping that's the case
2020-04-12T11:29:41 < zyp> there's no sane reason to clear other control bits, so that's a reasonable thing to change between revisions
2020-04-12T11:30:10 < catphish> so, this is probably an error with the RMII config
2020-04-12T11:30:16 < catphish> or the PORT
2020-04-12T11:30:17 < zyp> hmm, I have a suspicion
2020-04-12T11:30:39 < catphish> i'm sure i clocked everything and set up the ports correctly
2020-04-12T11:34:13 < catphish> need coffee
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2020-04-12T11:35:35 < zyp> check the drive strength on the gpios
2020-04-12T11:35:49 < zyp> maybe they are not driving strong enough for 50 MHz
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2020-04-12T11:39:45 < catphish> is this enough?
2020-04-12T11:39:48 < catphish> void gpio_init() {
2020-04-12T11:39:49 < catphish>   RCC->AHB1ENR |= RCC_AHB1ENR_GPIOAEN;
2020-04-12T11:39:49 < catphish>   RCC->AHB1ENR |= RCC_AHB1ENR_GPIOBEN;
2020-04-12T11:39:49 < catphish>   RCC->AHB1ENR |= RCC_AHB1ENR_GPIOCEN;
2020-04-12T11:39:49 < catphish>   GPIOA->OSPEEDR = 0xFFFFFFFF;
2020-04-12T11:39:49 < catphish>   GPIOB->OSPEEDR = 0xFFFFFFFF;
2020-04-12T11:39:51 < catphish>   GPIOC->OSPEEDR = 0xFFFFFFFF;
2020-04-12T11:39:53 < catphish> }
2020-04-12T11:39:56 < catphish> that's what i do
2020-04-12T11:41:08 < zyp> that should do it
2020-04-12T11:41:11 < Thorn> iirc senior stm32 families jhave some type of thing you need to enable to obtain maximum drive strength
2020-04-12T11:42:44 < catphish> just remembered i don't own a scope
2020-04-12T11:42:48 < catphish> time to buy one soon
2020-04-12T11:45:54 < Thorn> >compensation cell
2020-04-12T11:46:14 < Thorn> did you enable that
2020-04-12T11:47:20 < catphish> i did not
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2020-04-12T11:51:41 < catphish> that didn't fix it, seems like a good idea though
2020-04-12T11:57:15 < catphish> i have an idea, maybe this nucleo board isn't wired the way i assumed, there are multiple options for the TX enable pin
2020-04-12T11:58:27 < catphish> yep, TXEN is not on the port i assumed it was
2020-04-12T11:59:20 < catphish> neither is TXD
2020-04-12T12:05:21 < catphish> zyp: it works now i looked up the right pins :'(
2020-04-12T12:05:26 < catphish> *hooked up
2020-04-12T12:05:40 < catphish> thanks!!
2020-04-12T12:07:47 < catphish> i incorrectly thought there were no alternative pins for any of the ethernet functions!
2020-04-12T12:11:00  * catphish goes away in shame and to write a UDP stack
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2020-04-12T12:21:25 < Thorn> what cortex-a SoM alternatives are there other than stm32mp1 and i.mx6ul?
2020-04-12T12:21:38 < zyp> tons
2020-04-12T12:21:40 < Thorn> easily obtainable, with sane linux, documented, etc.
2020-04-12T12:25:17 < zyp> here's one I looked at: https://neutis.io/
2020-04-12T12:25:55 < zyp> and then there were some other one, but I don't remember the name, englishman probably remembers
2020-04-12T12:27:43 < catphish> i.mx6 is popular, i like the insanely cheap allwinner H3 and friends
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2020-04-12T12:28:10 < catphish> although that isn't a module i guess, no ram
2020-04-12T12:28:43 < zyp> artik
2020-04-12T12:29:16 < catphish> that Neutis looks cool
2020-04-12T12:29:20 < zyp> heh, artik webpage looks dead
2020-04-12T12:29:35 < catphish> someone should make a H3 module :)
2020-04-12T12:31:27 < zyp> hah, all the artik stuff on digikey is listed as obsolete as well
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2020-04-12T12:32:52 < zyp> catphish, I actually considered that a while ago
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2020-04-12T13:17:48 < catphish> zyp: by the way is the speed and duplex being auto negotiated by the PHY? am i supposed to use MDIO to get the speed and duplex from it?
2020-04-12T13:18:11 < Cracki> Thorn, these guys use allwinner a lot. they seem to have all the setup under control too. https://twitter.com/janhenrikh/status/1196767235777482756
2020-04-12T13:18:16 < catphish> right now i just hardcoded it to 100/full, because obviously that's all it's ever going to see in 2020
2020-04-12T13:18:40 < Cracki> >u-boot, then Linux 5.3 with buildroot.
2020-04-12T13:19:51 < Cracki> be careful about disabling autoneg. in practice, if not by spec, a switch has to fall back to 10M half duplex in that case
2020-04-12T13:20:33 < catphish> well the MAC has no option for autoneg, which i guess means the PHY must be doing it
2020-04-12T13:20:39 < Cracki> I probably mistake the sides... I had that situation once a long while ago. some dumbass set the upstream switch to 100 full fixed, which our dumb switch didn't like
2020-04-12T13:21:09 < catphish> i'm not that familiar with ethernet yet it seems
2020-04-12T13:21:56 < catphish> if it is in fact the PHY doing the autoneg, then i assume i'll need to ask it what it negotiated, and know if/when it gets disconnected or negotiates something different
2020-04-12T13:22:45 < catphish> but for now, it works at 100/full :)
2020-04-12T13:25:35 < zyp> catphish, correct
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2020-04-12T13:26:03 < zyp> phy is responsible for negotiating speed, mac just needs to talk rmii at the right speed/duplex
2020-04-12T13:26:54 < zyp> so yeah, to do it properly you should poll the phy for autonegotiation result and set the mac to match
2020-04-12T13:27:14 < zyp> the mac might even be able to do that automatically, some macs do
2020-04-12T13:27:31 < zyp> the mdio regs that deals with that are standardized
2020-04-12T13:27:52 < catphish> that's handy, i'll check, thanks
2020-04-12T13:28:10 < catphish> bike ride first :)
2020-04-12T13:28:21 < zyp> for my work stuff I've also hardcoded it, but on that stuff I've got a switch chip that talks RMII to the MCU and two PHY ports, so the RMII speed doesn't have to match the PHY speeds
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2020-04-12T14:09:03 < invzim> autoneg in one end and 100/hard other end results in duplex mismatch
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2020-04-12T14:31:13 < zyp> invzim, but catphish got autoneg in both ends, just hardcoded how the mac talks rmii
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2020-04-12T14:37:04 < catphish> bike ride was a disaster, aborted by large puncture
2020-04-12T14:40:04 < zyp> aww
2020-04-12T14:40:51 < PaulFertser> catphish: front or back?
2020-04-12T14:40:57 < PaulFertser> How come?
2020-04-12T14:41:06 < PaulFertser> And why are you biking if it's illegal?
2020-04-12T14:41:40 < zyp> what sort of dictatorship do you live in where biking is illegal?
2020-04-12T14:41:42 < Steffanx> lol your bike IS cursed.
2020-04-12T14:41:55 < Steffanx> or wasnt it your motor bike?
2020-04-12T14:42:12 < BrainDamage> in uk they are allowed to bike
2020-04-12T14:42:15 < catphish> PaulFertser: different bike :)  https://images.giant-bicycles.com/b_white,c_pad,h_650,q_80/h4z9uthimldtnjcf1edu/ToughRoadSLR2DB_ColorA_Charcoal.jpg
2020-04-12T14:42:34 < PaulFertser> I'm not allowed to push bike atm :(
2020-04-12T14:42:41 < catphish> aww :(
2020-04-12T14:43:01 < BrainDamage> that's a weird combo of mtb and road bike
2020-04-12T14:43:04 < PaulFertser> catphish: nice one! I have a road racing pushbike too.
2020-04-12T14:43:22 < PaulFertser> Cyclocross is now standard with disc brakes.
2020-04-12T14:43:30 < BrainDamage> ah right, cyclocross
2020-04-12T14:43:44 < BrainDamage> tbh, ddisk brakes should be standrd everywhere
2020-04-12T14:43:59 < PaulFertser> I think they're testing it for regular road racing too.
2020-04-12T14:44:07 < zyp> agreed
2020-04-12T14:44:12 < catphish> i have that cross bike, and also https://giantcdn-qu2qwwv2de7wv85rz.stackpathdns.com/remote/www.giant-bicycles.com/_upload_uk/bikes/models/xxl/2016/2016_Giant_Defy_4_white.jpg?height=600&quality=80&mode=none&bgcolor=white
2020-04-12T14:44:42 < catphish> i pretty much exclusively use the cross bike these days though, ideal switching between dirt and road
2020-04-12T14:44:46 < PaulFertser> catphish: why do you really need both?
2020-04-12T14:45:04 < catphish> i don't, unless i do triathlon, then it's worth having the road bike
2020-04-12T14:45:08 < BrainDamage> wouldn't be easier to just swap the wheels?
2020-04-12T14:45:09 < Cracki> maybe it's like needing to have two pairs of shoes in case one breaks down
2020-04-12T14:45:12 < PaulFertser> catphish: what pedal system are you using?
2020-04-12T14:45:16 < zyp> my bike came in models both with and without disc brakes
2020-04-12T14:45:33 < zyp> like 100€ difference
2020-04-12T14:45:38 < catphish> SPD MTB ones
2020-04-12T14:45:44 < zyp> friend got the one without, I got the one with
2020-04-12T14:45:45 < BrainDamage> I used the same
2020-04-12T14:45:51 < BrainDamage> -d
2020-04-12T14:45:54 < catphish> https://www.tredz.co.uk/.Shimano-M520-SPD-Clipless-MTB-Pedals_1887.htm
2020-04-12T14:45:56 < PaulFertser> catphish: good for walking back after a puncture, heh
2020-04-12T14:45:58 < BrainDamage> bleh, I needd to clean my keyb
2020-04-12T14:46:32 < BrainDamage> mine are only half cleated, intentionally, so I can use them as reg pedals if necessary
2020-04-12T14:46:36 < PaulFertser> I'm using same M520
2020-04-12T14:47:09 < catphish> so, this is the first time i've had a puncture with my tubeless tyres, seemed like a pretty big punture, was pissing foam everywhere, but once i got off and walked for about 1km it was healed and i slowly rode home
2020-04-12T14:47:12 < PaulFertser> BrainDamage: funny thing but in winter I'm using regular winter boots without any cleats and it works surprisingly well.
2020-04-12T14:47:17 < zyp> BrainDamage, me too
2020-04-12T14:47:32 < catphish> i will buy some more expensive tubeless tyres with kevlar
2020-04-12T14:47:35 < zyp> but then I'm the sort of weirdo using cleats on an ebike
2020-04-12T14:48:10 < BrainDamage> I don't find that weird, I feel less sore when I use cleats
2020-04-12T14:48:10 < catphish> still gotta pedal on ebike to get those downhill speeds :)
2020-04-12T14:48:28 < catphish> i've never *not* used cleats, at least not as an adult
2020-04-12T14:48:32 < srk> catphish: heh, was wondering why not just have a spare tube :)
2020-04-12T14:48:45 < BrainDamage> tubless cannot be swapped easily
2020-04-12T14:49:03 < catphish> i'm still undecided about tubeless, clearly it works, but its a bit scary
2020-04-12T14:49:08 < srk> yeah
2020-04-12T14:49:12 < catphish> tubes i know i can replace
2020-04-12T14:49:15 < zyp> catphish, well, yeah, I find I'm pedalling just as hard as before, I just use the extra power to go faster, making it more fun
2020-04-12T14:49:55 < srk> just use better ESC :D
2020-04-12T14:50:11 < BrainDamage> I've put kevlar tape between the tube and the road mesh, and so far I've only got a single puncture in year and it was a pinch puncture
2020-04-12T14:50:14 < srk> with no stupid 25kmh chokes
2020-04-12T14:50:23 < BrainDamage> and I ride pretty hard
2020-04-12T14:51:06 < catphish> how about my ESC? https://i.imgur.com/C7yKUw5.jpg
2020-04-12T14:51:11 < catphish> should do the job
2020-04-12T14:51:36 < srk> :D:D
2020-04-12T14:51:40 < BrainDamage> how much does it weight?
2020-04-12T14:51:50 < catphish> more than my bike probably
2020-04-12T14:51:51 < catphish> :D
2020-04-12T14:51:52 < BrainDamage> and why can't you use the bike frame as heatsink?
2020-04-12T14:51:53 < zyp> srk, I'm not limited to 25 :p
2020-04-12T14:52:06 < srk> catphish: that two resistors lol
2020-04-12T14:52:18 < srk> zyp: 26?
2020-04-12T14:52:18 < zyp> srk, I put a bbs01 on an ordinary bike
2020-04-12T14:52:41 < zyp> I think I configured the limit to 60 or something :)
2020-04-12T14:52:43 < BrainDamage> here you're allowed to even put an accelerator, but then you need to register it as a vehicle
2020-04-12T14:52:50 < catphish> i built that for a car, but never built the car, next year i'm hoping to get back to that, but this time starting with the car
2020-04-12T14:52:59 < catphish> i want to build an electric kit car
2020-04-12T14:53:08 < srk> zyp: how fast it can go on flat road? :)
2020-04-12T14:53:43 < PaulFertser> BrainDamage: no, I mean M520 (double-sided SPD) works okish even without cleats with winter boots.
2020-04-12T14:53:49 < BrainDamage> downhill my personal record is 92km/h, without assited pedaling >.>
2020-04-12T14:53:57 < srk> similar
2020-04-12T14:54:11 < srk> loaded touring bike in Austria
2020-04-12T14:54:12 < zyp> srk, depends how hard I pedal
2020-04-12T14:54:24 < PaulFertser> catphish: can't you fix pushbike tubeless the same way as motorbike?
2020-04-12T14:54:37 < zyp> srk, i.e. depends how good shape I'm in
2020-04-12T14:54:57 < jadew> is there a slicer that can add supports only in certain places?
2020-04-12T14:54:58 < srk> zyp: sure
2020-04-12T14:55:20 < catphish> PaulFertser: no idea, i have roadside breakdown insurance for that :D
2020-04-12T14:55:23 < BrainDamage> I'm surprised we're talking about bikes and the dutch are silent
2020-04-12T14:55:40 < karlp> not sure mawk counts as dutch for this purpose
2020-04-12T14:55:48 < BrainDamage> Steffanx then
2020-04-12T14:55:51 < PaulFertser> catphish: do you mean when you get a puncture on a motorbike you're going to sit down and wait for help?
2020-04-12T14:56:30 < catphish> PaulFertser: yes
2020-04-12T14:56:33 < zyp> some old pics: https://bin.jvnv.net/file/jl9Hx.JPG https://bin.jvnv.net/file/9kUJB.JPG
2020-04-12T14:56:42 < catphish> PaulFertser: it's never happened luckily
2020-04-12T14:56:43 < zyp> I think last one was right after I swapped pedals
2020-04-12T14:56:46 < PaulFertser> catphish: how long does it normally take?
2020-04-12T14:56:52 < BrainDamage> zyp: I have the same pedals
2020-04-12T14:56:56 < zyp> nice
2020-04-12T14:57:03 < catphish> PaulFertser: no idea, never had one, but AA usually take about an hour
2020-04-12T14:57:45 < PaulFertser> catphish: nice. In regular case it takes like 15 minutes to repair tubeless though.
2020-04-12T14:58:04 < catphish> PaulFertser: how? foam and pump?
2020-04-12T14:58:23 < BrainDamage> how do you repair a tubless? do you plug it with that manual drill and sealing compound?
2020-04-12T14:58:49 < PaulFertser> catphish: rubber plug inserted with a special needle-like tool, plus a "corkscrew" tool to clean the puncture it beforehand.
2020-04-12T14:59:17 < catphish> hardly seems worth doing at the roadside, and carrying the tools
2020-04-12T14:59:22 < catphish> and the pump
2020-04-12T14:59:31 < PaulFertser> I carry a pushbike pump, and tools a tiny.
2020-04-12T14:59:57 < PaulFertser> And there's no insurance like what you describe for motorbikes here anyway...
2020-04-12T15:00:33 < zyp> how often do you even have to do it?
2020-04-12T15:01:07 < catphish> i have https://www.theaa.com/breakdown-cover/motorbikes
2020-04-12T15:01:09 < srk> zyp: looks good! how much was the kit?
2020-04-12T15:01:23 < catphish> i actually haven't used breakdown cover for many years, but it's nice to have
2020-04-12T15:01:29 < PaulFertser> zyp: I had it happen to me 3 times in like 6 years.
2020-04-12T15:03:20 < PaulFertser> zyp: and when it's a 15 minute job why waste time and money by not carrying the small tools needed?
2020-04-12T15:03:23 < zyp> srk, motor kit was $400, battery was $160 and shipping was another $140
2020-04-12T15:03:43 < srk> ty!
2020-04-12T15:04:14 < PaulFertser> zyp: next time you tell me you have no spare tyre in your car? ;)
2020-04-12T15:04:22 < srk> lol
2020-04-12T15:05:06 < catphish> i do have a spare wheel :) though many cars these days don't, and i've not had a car puncture for 10 years
2020-04-12T15:05:32 < PaulFertser> I think only those with "runflat" tyres do not.
2020-04-12T15:05:49 < catphish> nah, my previous car didn't, it had a pump and foam
2020-04-12T15:05:58 < catphish> luckily never had to use it
2020-04-12T15:06:02 < zyp> PaulFertser, I don't
2020-04-12T15:06:18 < catphish> zyp: interesting, GTI does
2020-04-12T15:06:21 < Steffanx> BrainDamage: its because we use bicycles not bikes :P
2020-04-12T15:06:22 < zyp> my car didn't come with one, it came with a can of that awful foam instead
2020-04-12T15:06:29 < zyp> which I'm never gonna use
2020-04-12T15:06:46 < catphish> i'd probably call for help before using foam in my car
2020-04-12T15:06:51 < Steffanx> and afk much
2020-04-12T15:06:54 < zyp> I've had two punctures so far, neither was so bad that the car was immediately drivable
2020-04-12T15:07:10 < zyp> so I got home, took off the tire and brought it to a tire shop to fix
2020-04-12T15:07:26 < PaulFertser> Took of the wheel?
2020-04-12T15:07:35 < zyp> if it got worse than that, I've also got free roadside assistance
2020-04-12T15:07:53 < zyp> PaulFertser, yeah?
2020-04-12T15:08:08 < PaulFertser> zyp: I meant probably you dismounted the tyre from the rim and carried just that :)
2020-04-12T15:09:00 < catphish> why do people outside the UK call wheels tires?
2020-04-12T15:09:24 < zyp> PaulFertser, no, the whole wheel
2020-04-12T15:09:48 < Steffanx> :D
2020-04-12T15:09:57 < catphish> "you have no spare tyre in your car?" "took off the tire and brought it to a tire shop to fix" << stop doing it
2020-04-12T15:10:02 < catphish> it's s wheel dammit
2020-04-12T15:10:04 < PaulFertser> Why do people call computers "CPU"?
2020-04-12T15:10:09 < catphish> lol
2020-04-12T15:10:11 < zyp> I said wheel
2020-04-12T15:10:31 < PaulFertser> "so I got home, took off the tire"
2020-04-12T15:10:41 < zyp> oh, right
2020-04-12T15:10:58 < zyp> s/said/meant/
2020-04-12T15:11:11 < PaulFertser> I'm going to DIY replace front tubeless tyre on my motorbike when the lockdown ends.
2020-04-12T15:11:22 < PaulFertser> Without using any proper tools.
2020-04-12T15:11:44 < catphish> i didn't think it was remotely possible without one of those huge tyre machines
2020-04-12T15:11:45 < PaulFertser> Just liquid soap and big screwdrivers.
2020-04-12T15:12:03 < PaulFertser> Screw the rim paint :)
2020-04-12T15:12:06 < Steffanx> Are you going to record it PaulFertser
2020-04-12T15:12:11 < catphish> i'd be scared of damaging the rim with screwdrivers
2020-04-12T15:12:34 < catphish> it's hard enough with good quality pushbike tyres
2020-04-12T15:13:27 < PaulFertser> Steffanx: unlikely but if you really insist... We did it successfully with my rear wheel a year ago so I do not expect much difficulties.
2020-04-12T15:13:40 < zyp> so anyway, is it okay to say «swap to summer tires» or should I say «summer wheels»?
2020-04-12T15:13:49 < zyp> for some reason that sounds silly
2020-04-12T15:14:16 < Steffanx> Im just curious if even you will go "suka blyat" out of frurstration after a while PaulFertser :P
2020-04-12T15:14:50 < PaulFertser> Steffanx: that was when I was using a wood clamp trying to assemble the valves.
2020-04-12T15:14:53 < Steffanx> I swap to summer tyres by swapping the wheels zyp.
2020-04-12T15:15:03 < zyp> obviously
2020-04-12T15:15:17 < zyp> and I'm considering doing that today
2020-04-12T15:15:24 < jpa-> "tires" here also, even though one swaps the wheels
2020-04-12T15:15:40 < dongs> http://openocd.zylin.com/#/c/5572/
2020-04-12T15:15:43 < dongs> more shit that doesnt wrok
2020-04-12T15:15:48 < dongs> and needs compiling from sores
2020-04-12T15:15:49 < Steffanx> does jpa- have a car?
2020-04-12T15:15:49 < dongs> to use
2020-04-12T15:15:58 < jpa-> Steffanx: wife does, i don't even have a license
2020-04-12T15:16:15 < Steffanx> :)
2020-04-12T15:16:16 < PaulFertser> dongs: that's very recent. Most people do not need that functionality so there was no support for that.
2020-04-12T15:16:36 < PaulFertser> dongs: did you get ftdi to work?
2020-04-12T15:18:35 < PaulFertser> catphish: btw, have you heard of blowing up petrol to inflate tubeless? :) 
2020-04-12T15:21:19 < Steffanx> And go out with a big bang... or just burn the tyre.
2020-04-12T15:21:32 < dongs> PaulFertser: nope, just niggerized jlink with zadig. no time.
2020-04-12T15:21:43 < dongs> can ftdi do more than 4mhz>?
2020-04-12T15:21:49 < dongs> for interface spedd
2020-04-12T15:23:52 < zyp> sure
2020-04-12T15:24:25 < zyp> I believe the shit I'm using for this fpga is running at 25MHz
2020-04-12T15:26:00 < zyp> I ended up just grabbing some ft232h breakout that I found in a store in jp, works fine despite not having any termination resistors or whatever
2020-04-12T15:28:05 < Steffanx> i love how you can get stuff like that in a semi-random store in japan. In dutchland all you can do is use the internets.
2020-04-12T15:29:01 < zyp> eh, there's only a couple specific stores that have interesting stuff
2020-04-12T15:29:21 < Steffanx> -> semi-random -> not so random :P
2020-04-12T15:29:24 < PaulFertser> dongs: ftdi can go up to 30 MHz
2020-04-12T15:29:35 < PaulFertser> zyp: it's either 15 or 30
2020-04-12T15:29:52 < zyp> PaulFertser, how so?
2020-04-12T15:30:01 < PaulFertser> zyp: clock, dividers stuff like that :)
2020-04-12T15:30:26 < zyp> https://paste.jvnv.net/view/GDiKA <- then why does it say 25?
2020-04-12T15:30:50 < PaulFertser> You asked for 25 but I think it just settles to 15.
2020-04-12T15:31:05 < zyp> then why doesn't it report back 15?
2020-04-12T15:31:35 < zyp> I could check it, but my scope is at the office
2020-04-12T15:32:03 < PaulFertser> "divisor = (base_clock / 2 + frequency - 1) / frequency - 1;" with base_clock being 60 MHz
2020-04-12T15:32:52 < PaulFertser> It reports in DEBUG: LOG_DEBUG("actually %d Hz", frequency);
2020-04-12T15:32:55 < PaulFertser> Unfortunately
2020-04-12T15:33:11 < zyp> hmm
2020-04-12T15:33:36 < zyp> increasing from 25 to 30 takes it from ~970ms to ~790ms
2020-04-12T15:33:55 < PaulFertser> What about decreasing from 25 to 16?
2020-04-12T15:34:15 < zyp> okay, yeah, you're right
2020-04-12T15:34:57 < zyp> does the time used count software overhead as well?
2020-04-12T15:35:38 < PaulFertser> I'm not sure, sorry.
2020-04-12T15:36:17 < zyp> I assume it does since it's not proportional with speed
2020-04-12T15:43:40 -!- Jak_o_Shadows [~Jak@unaffiliated/jak-o-shadows/x-0479135] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds]
2020-04-12T15:46:04 < catphish> wow! jlcpcb stock the f407 *and* the KSZ8081RNA
2020-04-12T15:46:22 < catphish> maybe it is worth finishing this PCB, it's way more likely to work if i don't have to assemble it
2020-04-12T15:47:37 < catphish> plus i can do 0402 :)
2020-04-12T15:48:13 -!- Laurenceb [~laurence@223.141.208.46.dyn.plus.net] has joined ##stm32
2020-04-12T15:53:22 < englishman> zyp: Artik was eol'd years ago
2020-04-12T15:53:27 < englishman> major scam
2020-04-12T15:55:40 < englishman> shitberripi might be the most reliable som manufacturer. better than Samsung anyway
2020-04-12T16:00:08 < catphish> huge noob question, if i go 4 layer instead of 4 layer for my stm32 ethernet board, is there a "default" layout for the layers?
2020-04-12T16:00:32 < Steffanx> one 4 must divided by 2?
2020-04-12T16:00:44 < catphish> like, should i put GND and 3v3 in the middle?
2020-04-12T16:01:00 < catphish> or GND on the bottom? or meh whatever?
2020-04-12T16:01:21 < catphish> i've never done 4 layers before
2020-04-12T16:02:11 < catphish> i'll start with GND and 3v3 in the middle and see how i get on, that seems the clearest
2020-04-12T16:04:59 -!- machinehum [~machinehu@2601:600:837f:9080:de:3b73:ecdc:6d42] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds]
2020-04-12T16:08:05 < zyp> englishman, well, yeah
2020-04-12T16:09:23 < zyp> rpi is so fucking ubiquitous that despite it being pretty shit on features, in practice it seems a pretty solid choice
2020-04-12T16:09:35 < Cracki> catphish, check out what your pcb house can do.
2020-04-12T16:09:45 < Thorn> how do SoCs boot generally? do they load the 1st sector from a sd card and run it or something?
2020-04-12T16:09:47 < Cracki> some do .5 oz for some layers and you can't change that
2020-04-12T16:10:11 < Cracki> 0.5 vs 1 oz for power can be a consideration
2020-04-12T16:10:21 < zyp> Thorn, first stage is generally an internal bootrom
2020-04-12T16:11:28 < zyp> which might grab next stage from sdcard/emmc/whatever, or it might grab next stage from external nor, that then grabs third stage from SD
2020-04-12T16:11:54 < zyp> but most stuff I've seen can do SD directly from bootrom
2020-04-12T16:12:44 < Thorn> but it doesn't recognize filesystems?
2020-04-12T16:12:52 < zyp> dunno
2020-04-12T16:13:11 < zyp> it might, or it might grab a stage from MBR that can recognize filesystem
2020-04-12T16:13:39 < zyp> I believe rpi bootrom understands fat32
2020-04-12T16:13:48 < zyp> expects to find next stage as a file on fat32
2020-04-12T16:14:00 < catphish> Cracki: makes sense, thanks, i have no power concerns at 3v3 luckily and even if i did, a 0.5oz fill is going to easily beat a track
2020-04-12T16:14:19 < srk> https://github.com/librerpi/rpi-open-firmware/blob/master/official-boot-flow.svg
2020-04-12T16:14:30 < zyp> catphish, correct
2020-04-12T16:14:33 < Cracki> then... power/gnd inside, signals outside I'd say
2020-04-12T16:14:38 < zyp> a 0.5oz plane is fine
2020-04-12T16:14:57 < zyp> I normally do 4L with signals outside, power and ground inside
2020-04-12T16:14:57 < Cracki> unless they have funky stackup and you need particular high speed lines
2020-04-12T16:15:49 < zyp> if I do anything highspeed, I keep highspeed on top and ground in top inner for reference plane
2020-04-12T16:16:02 < zyp> although power can also work as reference planes
2020-04-12T16:17:14 < zyp> srk, yeah, exactly, maskrom is able to find bootcode.bin on fat32 on sdcard
2020-04-12T16:17:48 < srk> btw - funny they've stopped putting stuff into maskrom and pi4 is using SPI flash for that
2020-04-12T16:17:58 < zyp> didn't know that
2020-04-12T16:18:00 < srk> so they can actually update :D
2020-04-12T16:18:33 < srk> reason why no SDcard netboot is flaky on pi2/3, can't fix maskrom .. :)
2020-04-12T16:18:57 < zyp> well, pi2/3 doesn't even have an ethernet mac
2020-04-12T16:19:06 < Cracki> *blink* no-sdcard netboot is flaky, or no ... netboot is flaky?
2020-04-12T16:19:25 < zyp> guess it's easier to netboot when you've got an internal ethernet mac than having to support a usb-mac
2020-04-12T16:20:45 < zyp> I wonder why they don't just throw a bit of flash inside, like a MCU has
2020-04-12T16:21:25 < zyp> would be neat to be able to have an upgradable boot stage without having to add an external flash chip
2020-04-12T16:21:46 < zyp> even if they just wirebond a spi flash to the main die
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2020-04-12T16:22:52 < zyp> Steffanx, here's the store in question, btw: https://www.marutsu.co.jp/
2020-04-12T16:25:20 < karlp> wank wank https://en.wikichip.org/wiki/dotriaconta-core
2020-04-12T16:25:23 < karlp> who the fuck talks like that
2020-04-12T16:25:38 < karlp> I like how zyp's solution to his flat tire was to have another car :)
2020-04-12T16:26:44 < srk> Cracki: with uboot netboot is fine
2020-04-12T16:26:44 < zyp> karlp, left that part out of the story
2020-04-12T16:26:52 < Cracki> ic
2020-04-12T16:27:41 < zyp> karlp, first time it happened, I were visiting a pal
2020-04-12T16:28:06 < zyp> both he and his brothers are into cars, so they have a big pile of wheels just sitting around
2020-04-12T16:28:25 < zyp> so I just borrowed a wheel that fit my car, threw my wheel in the back and took it to a tire shop
2020-04-12T16:28:53 < zyp> second time I borrowed wife's car
2020-04-12T16:29:29 < zyp> it'd be possible to just drive to the shop with a leaky tire, but I figure it's better not to if I don't have to
2020-04-12T16:36:30 < Thorn> ok thanks srk zyp 
2020-04-12T16:37:39 < catphish> so, related noob question, is there a *right* way to provide power to a stm32? is this it? https://i.imgur.com/9Pz0Trq.png
2020-04-12T16:38:51 < karlp> so, TIL that sawn boards were how chips are also sold
2020-04-12T16:39:28 < karlp> I thought they just baked them all off, but I guess sawing fr4 is "better" than melting the solder again, less chance of burnig the product I guess.
2020-04-12T16:42:00 < zyp> catphish, no, put the vias closer to the chip
2020-04-12T16:42:10 < Cracki> catphish, consult datashit, RM, ... steal from disco/nucleo schematics?
2020-04-12T16:42:43 < catphish> zyp: not bother putting the 100n physically between the vias and the chip?
2020-04-12T16:42:51 < zyp> exactly
2020-04-12T16:43:14 < zyp> you want both the vias and the caps as close as reasonably possible to the pins, and there's no rule saying the caps should be closer than the vias
2020-04-12T16:43:21 < zyp> that's actually disingenous
2020-04-12T16:43:48 < catphish> like so? https://i.imgur.com/3wD4yxL.png
2020-04-12T16:43:57 < zyp> yes
2020-04-12T16:44:36 < zyp> https://bin.jvnv.net/file/ScDxl.png
2020-04-12T16:46:02 < zyp> think like this: the point of the caps is not to protect the power rail from transients, it's to provide the chip with stable power
2020-04-12T16:46:08 < dongs> < catphish> like so? https://i.imgur.com/3wD4yxL.png
2020-04-12T16:46:10 < dongs> is that kikecad
2020-04-12T16:46:19 < catphish> dongs: yes
2020-04-12T16:46:20 < kakimir> it is
2020-04-12T16:46:58 < kakimir> dongs is seriously considering trying kikecading now
2020-04-12T16:47:12 < srk> he can't believe how good it looks
2020-04-12T16:48:03 < zyp> catphish, as long as the caps are the faster path, the bursts would be provided by the caps anyway, and if the via is the faster path then the chip gets better power by having them closer
2020-04-12T16:48:14 < zyp> or some shit
2020-04-12T16:48:21 < kakimir> he is curious about it
2020-04-12T16:48:25 < catphish> yeah that makes perfect sense
2020-04-12T16:48:45 < zyp> probably doesn't matter much in practice, but all layout guides says to keep the vias as close as possible, not behind the cap
2020-04-12T16:48:50 < catphish> https://i.imgur.com/GPSims4.png :)
2020-04-12T16:49:44 < zyp> hmm, my layout is opposite of yours
2020-04-12T16:50:02 < zyp> you put vdd under the chip and gnd in front of it, I do the opposite
2020-04-12T16:50:31 < zyp> my screenshot has a f407, should have exact same pinout as your f439
2020-04-12T16:50:58 < catphish> ooo i forgot that layout
2020-04-12T16:51:02 < catphish> i might copy come of that
2020-04-12T16:51:31 < zyp> this one is probably better: https://bin.jvnv.net/file/Q8moB.png
2020-04-12T16:51:34 < zyp> has less other shit
2020-04-12T16:55:32 < catphish> how do you get that good?
2020-04-12T16:55:51 < karlp> years of practice
2020-04-12T16:55:57 < Laurenceb> https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-52262075
2020-04-12T16:56:01 < Laurenceb> based Assange
2020-04-12T16:56:31 < kakimir> IKR
2020-04-12T16:56:50 < Laurenceb> the man, the legend
2020-04-12T16:56:56 < zyp> catphish, dunno, that last one was the first time I did ethernet :)
2020-04-12T16:58:21 < zyp> but layout is fun, it's just like solving a puzzle
2020-04-12T17:00:12 < Laurenceb> >Daniel Assange lives in Australia
2020-04-12T17:00:19 < Laurenceb> true identity of jly confirmed
2020-04-12T17:00:26 < zyp> getting to sort out the layout and figure out the best way to put everything together is the reward after finishing the tedious job of drawing the schematic and selecting parts and preparing footprints and shit
2020-04-12T17:01:01 < karlp> yeah, I find it to b the "now I have to do theis hitty bits after having done all the work"
2020-04-12T17:01:37 < zyp> I also love it when people hate doing layout and pay me to do it after they've finished all the stuff I hate
2020-04-12T17:01:57 < catphish> lol
2020-04-12T17:02:14 < zyp> I mean, I've done a couple of jobs like that
2020-04-12T17:05:05 < qyx> I hate doing layout
2020-04-12T17:05:16 < qyx> I hate doing sch and selexcting parts too
2020-04-12T17:05:31 < mawk> pay indians
2020-04-12T17:05:41 < qyx> tbh idk now which part is worse
2020-04-12T17:05:53 < karlp> guess it's time to fire up and get this layout done then I guess :)
2020-04-12T17:06:07 < karlp> though I've probably already "wasted" most of the quiet time today
2020-04-12T17:06:36 < qyx> my quiet time begins at 22:00
2020-04-12T17:06:48 < zyp> haha
2020-04-12T17:06:57 < zyp> that's when kid goes to sleep?
2020-04-12T17:07:38 < karlp> one is watching some cartoons, the other is asleep, but will wakeup in less than half an hour probably.
2020-04-12T17:07:42 < englishman> if Elon Musk said water is wet Laurenceb would try to prove him wrong
2020-04-12T17:08:25 < mawk> you don't have to
2020-04-12T17:08:31 < mawk> he's elon musk, he's automatically wrong
2020-04-12T17:08:58 < Laurenceb> muh self driving cars by 2020
2020-04-12T17:09:01 < mawk> that's a physical law, between conservation of momentum and constant speed of light in vacuum
2020-04-12T17:10:19 < zyp> but I mean seriously, if anybody needs some layout done in altium, I'd be happy to take the job
2020-04-12T17:12:45 < englishman> i subcontracted some crap like that to dongs last year
2020-04-12T17:13:38 < zyp> oh, I remember you wanted some 1970s designs cloned once
2020-04-12T17:14:15 < karlp> damnit, I had all this layout finished. redoing it for t his new case is annoying.
2020-04-12T17:14:20 < zyp> haha
2020-04-12T17:14:28 < englishman> oh yeah gave up on that. it was some rageperrypi project
2020-04-12T17:14:40 < englishman> that guy wanted like 12 new designs for $500
2020-04-12T17:14:50 < zyp> simple ones?
2020-04-12T17:15:07 < englishman> that was never really clear due to the incomplete hand drawn schematics
2020-04-12T17:15:16 < englishman> but probably, yes
2020-04-12T17:15:28 < zyp> wait, you mean the 70s shit?
2020-04-12T17:15:39 < englishman> we hired an altium guy in january so besides checking and approval stuff i never use altium anymore
2020-04-12T17:15:39 < englishman> yes
2020-04-12T17:15:50 < englishman> the raspberripi stuff was more recent
2020-04-12T17:16:05 < zyp> ah, yeah, I think you sent me the handdrawn stuff
2020-04-12T17:16:20 < zyp> I think I was intending to have a go at it, but couldn't really figure out wtf
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2020-04-12T17:16:36 < kakimir> dongs: https://www.ebay.com/itm/FPC-FFC-Flat-Flexible-Cable-Adapter-Board-Connectors-0-5mm-1-0mm-to-DIP-2-54mm/263768868111 are these of any use?
2020-04-12T17:16:50 < englishman> i might have ended up giving him an initial quote and never heard back but maybe didn't even get that far
2020-04-12T17:17:04 < englishman> too many projects like that
2020-04-12T17:17:14 < zyp> kakimir, for what? why wouldn't they be?
2020-04-12T17:17:19 < Laurenceb> >raspberry pi
2020-04-12T17:17:27 < Laurenceb> sounds like uni crossed with reddit project
2020-04-12T17:17:34 < englishman> Laurenceb: tehre is basically no competition for raspberripi
2020-04-12T17:17:35 < kakimir> idk.. I just need to collect adapter boards
2020-04-12T17:17:39 < englishman> even if you wish it
2020-04-12T17:17:48 < kakimir> do you have any nice adapter board gerbers?
2020-04-12T17:17:57 < kakimir> to add to pcb order?
2020-04-12T17:18:01 < Laurenceb> englishman: sure, but..
2020-04-12T17:18:06 < Laurenceb> >embedded lunix
2020-04-12T17:18:06 < zyp> kakimir, yeah, actually
2020-04-12T17:18:16 < Laurenceb> >ever a good idea
2020-04-12T17:18:34 < englishman> waambulance would have been done on time and ahead of schedule if you used shitberripi
2020-04-12T17:18:35 < englishman> or
2020-04-12T17:18:38 < zyp> kakimir, <- top center
2020-04-12T17:18:40 < englishman> hired a competent engineer
2020-04-12T17:18:43 < zyp> that's a breakout board like that
2020-04-12T17:19:16 < Laurenceb> or.. not
2020-04-12T17:19:29 < Laurenceb> waaambulance problem was it was incoherent
2020-04-12T17:19:40 < Laurenceb> and nobody could write down requirements
2020-04-12T17:20:26 < kakimir> what is the next troll jobb Laurenceb?
2020-04-12T17:20:37 < Laurenceb> dunno
2020-04-12T17:20:44 < kakimir> farage balloons to keep poles out?
2020-04-12T17:20:47 < Laurenceb> atm there is coronavirus everywhere
2020-04-12T17:20:50 < Laurenceb> yeah maybe
2020-04-12T17:20:53 < zyp> kakimir, if you have any need for it, go wild: https://bin.jvnv.net/file/AxCy5/ffcbreakout.zip
2020-04-12T17:21:02 < Laurenceb> three bilmpfs with a solar panel in between
2020-04-12T17:21:08  * catphish exploits zyp for cheap labour
2020-04-12T17:21:17 < Laurenceb>  *blimpf
2020-04-12T17:21:36 < Laurenceb> inb4 "basedamy" pops them
2020-04-12T17:21:47 < Laurenceb> iikr she was sent to prison so they would be safe
2020-04-12T17:22:22 < Laurenceb> >livestreamed herself going rage mode on the blimpf with a knife
2020-04-12T17:23:03 < Laurenceb> https://www.reddit.com/r/drumpfisfinished/comments/9yojm1/fuck_blimpf_fuck_blimpf_fuck_blimpf_fuck_blimpf/
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2020-04-12T17:24:28 < catphish> this is probably technically inferior, but it's prettier https://i.imgur.com/d4IL44e.png
2020-04-12T17:24:30 < Laurenceb> sorry zyp
2020-04-12T17:27:57 < karlp> blah, spongebob in one ear, can't turn up the headphones enough or wont' hear when #2 wakes up. super conducive
2020-04-12T17:28:18 < zyp> haha
2020-04-12T17:28:26 < karlp> kicad's push and shove is way nicert than old days, but once you've placed it, it really needs a "let me push it a bit more"
2020-04-12T17:29:09 < karlp> I mean, it's "fine" https://bin.jvnv.net/file/tq5XH.png but it's not _neat_
2020-04-12T17:29:27 < sync> correct
2020-04-12T17:31:16 < kakimir> zyp: it doesn't seem super multifunctional board. what is 30pin used for?
2020-04-12T17:31:28 < kakimir> what did you use this board for?
2020-04-12T17:31:38 < karlp> correct as in, "just ignore it" or "correct it would be nice to have a shove without place" ?
2020-04-12T17:31:40 < karlp> or just both :)
2020-04-12T17:31:45 < kakimir> lvds something?
2020-04-12T17:32:02 < kakimir> did you use that board as a sniffer?
2020-04-12T17:32:12 < zyp> oh, I thought I pasted a pic link
2020-04-12T17:32:37 < zyp> https://bin.jvnv.net/file/3825L.jpg <- top center
2020-04-12T17:33:02 < zyp> it's just an adapter to interface with that stuff
2020-04-12T17:33:26 < kakimir> why it does have dual connector?
2020-04-12T17:33:31 < zyp> and yes, it has two FFC connectors so it can connect in between two boards to make it easy to monitor comms
2020-04-12T17:33:48 < kakimir> what connector family you use?
2020-04-12T17:33:48 < zyp> but I haven't gotten around to make that second board yet :)
2020-04-12T17:34:01 < zyp> dunno, some cheap china stuff
2020-04-12T17:38:06 < zyp> af3e30r according to the BOM
2020-04-12T17:41:33 < catphish> one thing really annoys me about kikkkkad... it loves bringing tracks out of pads like this... https://i.imgur.com/OGT2yIA.png
2020-04-12T17:42:01 < catphish> why not use the damn corner if you're going to come out at 45 degrees
2020-04-12T17:42:34 < zyp> presumably because you also got a straight segment going to the center of the pad?
2020-04-12T17:43:26 < catphish> yes
2020-04-12T17:43:26 < zyp> altium doesn't care about corners or whatever either, it just routes from center of pad however you tell it to
2020-04-12T17:43:38 < catphish> this is just the default any time you bring a track out of any pad
2020-04-12T17:43:50 < catphish> it always makes a straight segment to the edge first
2020-04-12T17:43:54 < catphish> then angles as it leaves
2020-04-12T17:44:00 < catphish> making a nasty sharp corner
2020-04-12T17:44:24 < zyp> so it's making all three segments at once?
2020-04-12T17:44:52 < catphish> i just force them out a litte further so they look like this instead https://i.imgur.com/9miiPuc.png
2020-04-12T17:45:04 < catphish> yes, it makes 3 segment at once
2020-04-12T17:45:17 < zyp> that sounds dumb
2020-04-12T17:45:38 < zyp> as in fairly unmanageable
2020-04-12T17:47:26 < zyp> in altium you're mostly routing with two, i.e. a combination of a straight and a diagonal
2020-04-12T17:47:30 < zyp> including when leaving pads
2020-04-12T17:48:17 < catphish> here's an action shot, this is "1 segment" being drawn ie i only clicked once https://i.imgur.com/UWWZZo6.png
2020-04-12T17:49:25 < zyp> eww
2020-04-12T17:50:15 < zyp> I mean, I kinda like the idea, but it should move the corner a bit further out, like what you did manually
2020-04-12T17:51:31 < catphish> fixed :) https://i.imgur.com/LdDMuCS.png
2020-04-12T17:51:42 < catphish> anyway, i should draw faster and talk less or i'll be here all day
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2020-04-12T17:55:04 < englishman> is there any replacement for chromecast audio
2020-04-12T17:56:18 < karlp> catphish: needs more netlabels
2020-04-12T17:56:26 < zyp> englishman, is it EOL?
2020-04-12T17:56:38 < englishman> yeah, some years ago
2020-04-12T17:56:51 < zyp> oh, yeah
2020-04-12T18:01:26 < zyp> doesn't seem to be any direct replacements
2020-04-12T18:01:41 < zyp> apparently an alternative is using a normal chromecast with a hdmi audio extractor
2020-04-12T18:02:04 < englishman> yes thinking about that though wtf
2020-04-12T18:02:59 < zyp> but still, can't you still get the chromecast audio? seems to still be stocked in several stores over here
2020-04-12T18:03:41 < englishman> sold out since 1 year
2020-04-12T18:05:56 < zyp> hmm, still in stock, but limited
2020-04-12T18:07:00 < englishman> https://www.ebay.com/itm/Chromecast-Audio-Wifi-media-player-New-Box-has-little-scratch-see-pictures/254565618028
2020-04-12T18:07:02 < zyp> okay, there's a store 36 minutes away that still got it in stock, want me to go pick one up for you?
2020-04-12T18:07:03 < englishman> this cant be legit
2020-04-12T18:07:27 < englishman> ha for real
2020-04-12T18:07:55 < englishman> they are all $90+ on ebay
2020-04-12T18:07:58 < srk> lol
2020-04-12T18:08:18 < zyp> 427 NOK here, so $42
2020-04-12T18:08:29 < zyp> or 58 CAD
2020-04-12T18:09:15 < zyp> apparently they were <350 until a month ago
2020-04-12T18:11:50 < englishman> thanks for the kind offer
2020-04-12T18:12:07 < englishman> i'll look a bit harder at local places
2020-04-12T18:15:44 < zyp> I can probably do $50 shipped if you don't find it locally
2020-04-12T18:16:04 < zyp> just throw it in an envelope and ship it along with other stuff next time I ship shit
2020-04-12T18:16:33 < dongs> zyp did tehy let you out of japan
2020-04-12T18:16:57 < zyp> yeah, but my original flight got cancelled
2020-04-12T18:17:05 < dongs> nobody can come in now
2020-04-12T18:17:07 < dongs> unless citizen
2020-04-12T18:17:13 < dongs> no PR or any sorta visa allowed
2020-04-12T18:17:25 < zyp> hah
2020-04-12T18:17:38 < dongs> some pilot dude was trying to get back to his family
2020-04-12T18:17:45 < dongs> RIP
2020-04-12T18:17:50 < zyp> over here anybody with a residency permit are fine
2020-04-12T18:18:05 < zyp> but not tourists
2020-04-12T18:18:13 < zyp> but yeah
2020-04-12T18:18:27 < zyp> original flight got cancelled, got rebooked to next day
2020-04-12T18:18:32 < zyp> then that flight also got cancelled
2020-04-12T18:18:46 < zyp> «uh, we don't have any available seats before may at the earliest»
2020-04-12T18:19:11 < dongs> nice
2020-04-12T18:19:11 < zyp> so I ended up buying new tickets with qatar instead
2020-04-12T18:19:35 < zyp> apparently they're more or less the only airline flying now
2020-04-12T18:19:59 < zyp> https://bin.jvnv.net/file/5vnQQ.png <- airport looked like this when I got there
2020-04-12T18:20:45 < kakimir> they flew a ghost flight for you to get you home?
2020-04-12T18:20:55 < kakimir> just you and the cabin crew
2020-04-12T18:21:16 < zyp> pretty much
2020-04-12T18:21:54 < zyp> we were sitting at row 16 (all the way forward in economy), closest other passenger were in row 29
2020-04-12T18:22:34 < englishman> wow $CAD has shit the bed
2020-04-12T18:23:06 < zyp> I suspect they put most of the passengers in the aft of the plane for balance reasons
2020-04-12T18:24:22 < zyp> NOK too
2020-04-12T18:24:54 < englishman> japan hasn't started testing yet
2020-04-12T18:25:01 < englishman> 544 tests/million
2020-04-12T18:25:07 < englishman> vs 10k+ in canada
2020-04-12T18:26:04 < englishman> even iraq has tested more people per-cap
2020-04-12T18:27:47 < zyp> get on iceland's level :p
2020-04-12T18:27:56 < zyp> so karlp, did you get tested?
2020-04-12T18:28:08 < zyp> how does that work, do they go around and test everybody?
2020-04-12T18:28:29 < englishman> canada has tested more people than iceland's population :)
2020-04-12T18:29:10 < englishman> is there much point in blanket testing? doesn't it show negative if completely cured? or are they doing antibody testing there
2020-04-12T18:29:13 < zyp> and USA have more infected people than iceland's population
2020-04-12T18:30:02 < zyp> statistics tracking?
2020-04-12T18:30:46 < zyp> are the antibody tests usable yet? last I read they were still evaluating the accuracy of those
2020-04-12T18:32:11 < englishman> i'll take two if it's not a huge waste of your time zyp
2020-04-12T18:33:34 < zyp> I'd like to take an antibody test, I figure there's a real chance I've had the virus and it'd be interesting to know
2020-04-12T18:34:14 < englishman> actually
2020-04-12T18:34:20 < englishman> i think i'll go the hdmi extractor route
2020-04-12T18:34:30 < zyp> heh
2020-04-12T18:34:41 < englishman> because i found an unused chromecast
2020-04-12T18:35:05 < zyp> either way stores are closed today and tomorrow
2020-04-12T18:52:06 < catphish> ugh, this is too hard! i'm so impatient today
2020-04-12T18:54:48 < kakimir> make Laurenceb great again
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2020-04-12T20:23:38 < catphish> zyp: if you care, i did my ethernet layout a bit better :) https://i.imgur.com/L0lFHP2.png
2020-04-12T20:44:39 < qyx> you should match wire length within the pairs
2020-04-12T20:45:01 < qyx> but it will still work
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2020-04-12T20:49:01 < kakimir> could should would
2020-04-12T20:49:05 < jpa-> not like it would matter much for 100Mbps
2020-04-12T20:51:57 < kakimir> it's about doing it right
2020-04-12T20:52:15 < qyx> no because yolo
2020-04-12T20:52:22 < kakimir> no you
2020-04-12T20:53:05 < jpa-> doing it right would require following the layout guide for a particular chip & magnetic combo.. for example pulse https://www.networking.pulseelectronics.com/hubfs/connectors/Pulse_Layout%20Considerations%20v7.pdf?hsLang=en-us has some funny recommendations like minimum 25mm between connector and chip
2020-04-12T20:54:31 < jpa-> but for 100Mbps, doing it right = doing it fast, without wasting time on stuff that doesn't matter
2020-04-12T20:58:01 < kakimir> naughty
2020-04-12T21:01:15 < jpa-> says the balanced SMA guy
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2020-04-12T21:09:12 < kakimir> very naughty
2020-04-12T21:09:25 < kakimir> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wcV1UpZAWAc musics
2020-04-12T21:12:21 < englishman> even the photos the astronauts took are synced with the playback
2020-04-12T21:13:18 < englishman> so you can see the photos of the dark side of the moon live from pericynthion
2020-04-12T21:13:33 < englishman> which also happens to be the highest altitude manned flight
2020-04-12T21:16:48 < zyp> hmm, I'm wondering if I should get an ULX3S from the crowdsupply campaign
2020-04-12T21:18:54 < Steffanx> Yes, it has an esp32 on board.
2020-04-12T21:19:06 < zyp> I am totally uninterested in that
2020-04-12T21:19:37 < Steffanx> kinda why i mentioned it
2020-04-12T21:20:33 < zyp> hmm, for some reason they selected FT231X for usb-jtag
2020-04-12T21:20:43 < zyp> despite it only doing 500 kHz
2020-04-12T21:20:54 < zyp> why not a MPSSE capable one
2020-04-12T21:22:45 < zyp> maybe it's faster to use the esp32 :p
2020-04-12T21:25:19 < zyp> not a big deal when jtag is available on headers anyway
2020-04-12T21:29:18 < englishman> https://apolloinrealtime.org/13/?t=090:09:17
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2020-04-12T21:52:45 < Steffanx> So what part of the world is still in business? I wonder if i order something in germany i'll get it any time soon
2020-04-12T21:53:19 < Steffanx> and COVID-0x13 is EVERYWHERE even in the stepper motor world: https://www.omc-stepperonline.com/disposable-face-masks-for-covid19.html -_-
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2020-04-12T22:39:46 < englishman> are they called that because some chinaman has stepped all over them
2020-04-12T22:39:50 < kakimir> how about making a UV filter with integrated 18650 battery cells and 40mm NATO thread?
2020-04-12T22:40:02 < kakimir> usb chargeable
2020-04-12T22:40:20 < englishman> 40mm UV grenade
2020-04-12T22:40:27 < kakimir> yes
2020-04-12T22:41:10 < kakimir> let's startup
2020-04-12T22:41:53 < kakimir> let's kickstart
2020-04-12T22:47:14 < Steffanx> i bet thats the reason englishman
2020-04-12T22:48:00 < qyx> whats a 40mm UV filter
2020-04-12T22:48:52 < kakimir> 40mm is the standard thread
2020-04-12T22:49:32 < kakimir> NATO standard
2020-04-12T22:51:54 < kakimir> just google 40mm NATO
2020-04-12T22:51:55 < qyx> https://i.ytimg.com/vi/_1dr5FWYDgE/maxresdefault.jpg
2020-04-12T22:51:57 < qyx> kakiboard
2020-04-12T22:52:14 < kakimir> pairs.. meh
2020-04-12T22:53:25 < Steffanx> oh is that what kakimir looks like
2020-04-12T22:53:31 < Steffanx> looks familiar though.
2020-04-12T22:54:30 < kakimir> you are not joking right?
2020-04-12T22:54:39 < kakimir> yeah that's me
2020-04-12T22:56:45 < Steffanx> You should update your altium
2020-04-12T22:59:03 < catphish> holy shit 10,000 dead in UK now :(
2020-04-12T23:00:32 < Steffanx> how many usually die in the same period?
2020-04-12T23:01:04 < catphish> about 10,000 less
2020-04-12T23:01:22 < catphish> actually i don't know, presumably some of those would have dies in both cases
2020-04-12T23:02:18 < kakimir> it's what is being debated
2020-04-12T23:13:55 < kakimir> "these people will die anyway"
2020-04-12T23:18:04 < jadew> kakimir, Cracki posted a paper on the subject
2020-04-12T23:18:35 < Steffanx> We'll see how much the count is lower after its all done
2020-04-12T23:18:54 < jadew> in some city in the UK or NY, where 500 people died within a particular period because of covid
2020-04-12T23:19:17 < jadew> they recorded 1000+ more deaths than the 5-year average for that same period
2020-04-12T23:19:34 < jadew> Steffanx, right, that's going to be interesting to observe
2020-04-12T23:29:12 < catphish> kakimir: who is "debating" this :|
2020-04-12T23:29:20 < kakimir> internet shitchats
2020-04-12T23:29:24 < catphish> lol
2020-04-12T23:29:31 < kakimir> chans basically
2020-04-12T23:29:36 < karlp> zyp: no reason for me to get tested, we just locked ourselves down
2020-04-12T23:29:46 < kakimir> I don't know who is shilling and who is retarded anymore
2020-04-12T23:30:19 < karlp> it's pretty much, "if you want one, book a time on this website, and then come get one, only if you have no symptoms, if you have any sort of symptoms, call this number, and then go to the hospital, they'll test you there"
2020-04-12T23:30:25 < Steffanx> Karlp has the sickness?
2020-04-12T23:30:31 < Steffanx> Or possibly.
2020-04-12T23:30:39 < karlp> no,
2020-04-12T23:30:44 < catphish> karlp: am i losing the plot? why did you just tag zyp? he hasn't commented in this conversation
2020-04-12T23:30:51 < kakimir> maybe I will actually do an UV filter to 40mm thread
2020-04-12T23:31:00 < karlp> 15:27:56             zyp | so karlp, did you get tested?
2020-04-12T23:31:01 < karlp> 15:28:08             zyp | how does that work, do they go around and test everybody?
2020-04-12T23:31:04 < kakimir> circular pcb with a hole in the middle
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2020-04-12T23:31:05 < qyx> with a sma protruding from the side
2020-04-12T23:31:18 < Steffanx> Karlp is very good at replying to messages from many hours ago
2020-04-12T23:31:23 < catphish> oh yeah, that was hours ago :)
2020-04-12T23:32:40 < zyp> karlp, ah, cool
2020-04-12T23:33:12 < zyp> irc is async, it's perfectly natural to reply to hours old messages when somebody highlighted you
2020-04-12T23:33:50 < zyp> norway doesn't have enough test capacity to test as many as they'd like to yet
2020-04-12T23:34:20 < zyp> anyway, let's talk some stm32
2020-04-12T23:34:45 < catphish> i'm STM32'd out for today
2020-04-12T23:34:52 < zyp> we all know that spi master is a lot more pleasant to do than i2c master
2020-04-12T23:35:09 < zyp> but what about slave? which is less annoying?
2020-04-12T23:35:13 < catphish> did you appreciate my ethernet layout?
2020-04-12T23:35:19 < zyp> looks fine
2020-04-12T23:35:34 < karlp> for a while we were blocked a bit and only testing people who were symptomatic or at the hospital as we were out of test swabs, but that's been resolved now
2020-04-12T23:35:47 < karlp> we got another 170k or so, enough to cover anyone who wants one forever now.
2020-04-12T23:36:20 < zyp> catphish, I tend to use more ground vias; anywhere I need one I tend to add one rather than routing to one nearby
2020-04-12T23:36:28 < zyp> so two caps next to each other each get their own
2020-04-12T23:36:29 < qyx> it look slike eset sponsored development of a custom test suite, we are manufacturing 100k now
2020-04-12T23:36:32 < qyx> karlp: ^
2020-04-12T23:36:49 < catphish> zyp: i was doing that to begin with, but in some cases it seemed silly
2020-04-12T23:36:57 < zyp> karlp, that's neat
2020-04-12T23:37:11 < zyp> catphish, you have a ground plane, the closest ground is straight down
2020-04-12T23:37:25 < karlp> in more fun news.... we set up a "backup" team of medical staff, people who were/are no longer active, but to step in if staff get quarantined or anything.
2020-04-12T23:37:34 < catphish> true, there's always a question whether to put vias under pads
2020-04-12T23:37:39 < karlp> and we had a remote community hospital get a bit of a spike of infections, so we heli'd in a backup team...
2020-04-12T23:37:46 < catphish> people seem not to do so
2020-04-12T23:37:48 < karlp> so far so good... all heartwarming, news footage and all.
2020-04-12T23:37:51 < karlp> except.....
2020-04-12T23:38:12 < qyx> catphish: not via under pad, just a dedicated via
2020-04-12T23:38:18 < karlp> one of the women there had apparently faked her credentials, and was caught allegedly tryign to steal medicines
2020-04-12T23:38:31 < zyp> haha
2020-04-12T23:38:35 < catphish> sure, but occasionally, the place where i'd put the via anywhere, already has one
2020-04-12T23:39:00 < karlp> _and_ she's not backing down, she's made lawyer statements that they're valid, just hadn't been re-certed recently domesitcally, and blah blah
2020-04-12T23:39:04 < karlp> super hilarious
2020-04-12T23:39:32 < zyp> so anyway, has anyone even done slave i2c on stm32?
2020-04-12T23:39:52 < zyp> I mean, I wrote a bitbang implementation for dongs once, but that doesn't count :)
2020-04-12T23:39:52 < karlp> chuckm on #libopencm3, just a couple of days ago actually.
2020-04-12T23:40:03 < karlp> has it working at 1Mbps bidir apparently
2020-04-12T23:40:08 < zyp> oh, wat
2020-04-12T23:40:13 < catphish> i have not, the peripheral does it though, right?
2020-04-12T23:40:15 < zyp> why am I not there
2020-04-12T23:40:22 < qyx> me neither
2020-04-12T23:40:24 < karlp> you used to be at least.
2020-04-12T23:40:32  * karlp shrugs
2020-04-12T23:40:39 < qyx> I cannot joing without being registered
2020-04-12T23:40:46 < qyx> autojoin fails for some reason because of that
2020-04-12T23:40:50 < qyx> hm
2020-04-12T23:40:54 < zyp> yeah, that's what happened
2020-04-12T23:41:06 < zyp> irc client tried autojoining before identifying
2020-04-12T23:41:06 < karlp> ah. that was from freenodespam,
2020-04-12T23:41:13 < catphish> i with everything was GPIO, so much easier to route when you can choose which pin to use :)
2020-04-12T23:41:14 < karlp> get a better client? :)
2020-04-12T23:41:56 < zyp> nah, I don't reconnect often enough to bother putting effort into fixing it
2020-04-12T23:42:11 < zyp> catphish, start playing with fpgas? .p
2020-04-12T23:42:42 < zyp> anyway, interesting to hear somebody got it working, at least
2020-04-12T23:42:46 < zyp> but how pleasant was it? :p
2020-04-12T23:43:31 < zyp> anyway, I should take a step back
2020-04-12T23:43:41 < zyp> I'm thinking about doing a usb-c pmod
2020-04-12T23:44:08 < catphish> zyp: yeah, i did some stuff with xilinx
2020-04-12T23:44:25 < catphish> USB is hard though
2020-04-12T23:44:39 < karlp> zyp: apparently pretty straight forward, just was missing some filter reigsters that were only on f4.
2020-04-12T23:45:05 < catphish> i wrote a terrible DDR3 controller, that was fun :)
2020-04-12T23:45:14 < zyp> data lines directly to fpga, add a stm32g0 to deal with the CC lines, then since I got a MCU there anyway it can control the pullup/downs on the data lines as well
2020-04-12T23:45:39 < karlp> my l5 nucleo has usb-c
2020-04-12T23:45:39 < zyp> I figure I'll add both up and down to both so I can do both FS/LS device and host
2020-04-12T23:45:45 < karlp> and the demo app doesn't do anythign at all. :(
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2020-04-12T23:46:01 < zyp> should give pretty good flexibility for all sorts of stuff
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2020-04-12T23:58:38 < zyp> hmm
2020-04-12T23:58:54 < zyp> stm32g071 would be the smallest/cheapest part with UCPD?
--- Day changed Mon Apr 13 2020
2020-04-13T00:05:28 < karlp> probably?
2020-04-13T00:05:59 < zyp> it's not listed as a filterable feature in the g0 product selector
2020-04-13T00:06:06 < zyp> but it looks like
2020-04-13T00:06:54 < zyp> interestingly it's available in both a 4x4mm qfn28 and a 5x5mm qfn32
2020-04-13T00:08:04 < karlp> yeah, I saw some PR on why they had both.
2020-04-13T00:08:07 < karlp> can't remember anymore
2020-04-13T00:08:33 < zyp> the qfn28 doesn't have exposed pad
2020-04-13T00:09:39 < zyp> huh
2020-04-13T00:09:56 < zyp> apparently both of them also exists in two versions
2020-04-13T00:10:09 < zyp> «GP version» and «PD version»
2020-04-13T00:10:22 < zyp> difference seems to be in which pins are bonded out
2020-04-13T00:12:49 < qyx> karlp: so hows your linux som thing going?
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2020-04-13T00:17:43 < zyp> ah
2020-04-13T00:18:51 < Ecco> hi :)
2020-04-13T00:19:02 < zyp> GP version have only one of the four CC pins bonded out, so it'd only be usable for thethered applications and cable markers
2020-04-13T00:19:17 < zyp> i.e. not sockets since they have two CC lines
2020-04-13T00:19:35 < Ecco> Dumb question: as a general rule, what difference would it make to write a program using int vs int16_t, for an STM32?
2020-04-13T00:19:58 < zyp> and qfn32 PD version seems uncommon, so qfn28 it is, I guess
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2020-04-13T00:20:23 < zyp> Ecco, depends what your code does
2020-04-13T00:20:30 < Ecco> ok
2020-04-13T00:20:48 < zyp> if you have big arrays, int16 consumes half the amount of ram compared to int
2020-04-13T00:20:53 < Ecco> I would assume the code would use less RAM using int16_t
2020-04-13T00:20:55 < Ecco> yeah, that
2020-04-13T00:21:10 < Ecco> but the core itself is 32 bits, right, so it just wouldn't make any difference?
2020-04-13T00:21:19 < zyp> on the other hand, all registers are 32-bit, so all computations would be 32-bit anyway
2020-04-13T00:21:21 < Ecco> Also, maybe usint uint16_t could be slower?
2020-04-13T00:21:25 < zyp> so it certainly doesn't get faster
2020-04-13T00:21:32 < Ecco> (if some form of "cast" needs to happen?)
2020-04-13T00:21:47 < zyp> but it could get slower as it in some cases needs to clear the top half of the register
2020-04-13T00:21:58 < Ecco> yeah, that was my concern
2020-04-13T00:22:12 < Ecco> is there any penalty to using 16 bit integers?
2020-04-13T00:22:21 < zyp> karlp or somebody did a benchmark some years ago
2020-04-13T00:22:30 < zyp> maybe it was jpa-, I don't remember
2020-04-13T00:22:32 < Ecco> ok :)
2020-04-13T00:22:45 < Ecco> do you remebmer the result? :-D
2020-04-13T00:22:50 < Ecco> (for waht it's worth)
2020-04-13T00:23:23 < zyp> not exact numbers, but IIRC there were minor differences with 32-bit being generally slightly faster
2020-04-13T00:23:41 < zyp> anyway, it should be pretty simple
2020-04-13T00:23:58 < zyp> if you're storing enough data for it to matter, store 16 bits
2020-04-13T00:24:03 < zyp> do calculations in 32 bits
2020-04-13T00:24:32 < Ecco> yeah, makes sense
2020-04-13T00:24:34 < Ecco> thanks :)
2020-04-13T00:24:36 < zyp> and if you're unsure if it matters, it probably doesn't
2020-04-13T00:24:51 < Ecco> indeed
2020-04-13T00:24:55 < Ecco> I never really bothered
2020-04-13T00:25:02 < zyp> premature optimization…
2020-04-13T00:25:26 < Ecco> yup :)
2020-04-13T00:25:37 < Ecco> but that's an interetsting question nonetheless :)
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2020-04-13T00:30:36 < karlp> https://false.ekta.is/2012/07/code-size-changes-with-int-on-8bit-and-32bit-platforms/
2020-04-13T00:32:42 < karlp> qyx: was having a hard tiem focusing on it, and got a box with usb aprts in it, so went back to redoign my layout for the hub instead.  I spent a bit of time looking at the sierra wireless modules, but still currently leaning towards one of the allwinner modules available.
2020-04-13T00:35:30 < qyx> the more I think about it the more I am sure the way to go is nxp/microchip/st in this order
2020-04-13T00:35:58 < qyx> considering obtainability, linux support, long term availability
2020-04-13T00:36:15 < karlp> well, linux support for allwinner is good too hoenstly.
2020-04-13T00:36:55 < karlp> anyway, I'm planning on doing most of the software on an allwinner board, and then it's "interchangeable" when I "outsource the hw design" :)
2020-04-13T00:37:04 < karlp> haharharhrrrrrr right.
2020-04-13T00:37:16 < qyx> prepare for bga then
2020-04-13T00:37:29 < karlp> that's in the "interchangeable" part,
2020-04-13T00:38:08 < karlp> if I can get a hw/mech person togive me a linux cortex-a in the right shape, and I can get my stuff going on that platform, instead of on stm32, then.... who careswhat packate they put it in?
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2020-04-13T01:07:28 < kakimir> mouser has 0 UVC leds
2020-04-13T01:07:37 < kakimir> everything on order
2020-04-13T01:14:20 < Steffanx> Dont die kakimir
2020-04-13T01:14:39 < kakimir> ah china has them UVC leds
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2020-04-13T01:29:57 < Steffanx> Damn it. kakimir   can you rename without telling us what your new nick is. I cannot unrelate kakimir from the PITA story.
2020-04-13T01:30:26 < kakimir> no
2020-04-13T01:30:33 < Steffanx> Pleaaaase 
2020-04-13T01:30:57 < kakimir> you cannot sleep now?
2020-04-13T01:31:14 < Steffanx> Lol. I can sleep very well.
2020-04-13T01:31:25 -!- mode/##stm32 [+o Steffanx] by ChanServ
2020-04-13T01:31:26 <@Steffanx> Pleeease?
2020-04-13T01:31:41 -!- mode/##stm32 [-o Steffanx] by Steffanx
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2020-04-13T01:46:59 < kakimir> traumatized
2020-04-13T01:48:39 -!- con3 [~con3@165.255.107.194] has quit [Quit: Leaving]
2020-04-13T01:55:50 < Steffanx> for life yes
2020-04-13T02:05:09 < kakimir> it will pass
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2020-04-13T02:31:07 < qyx> https://i.imgur.com/584NHb2.png
2020-04-13T02:31:08 < qyx> is it legit
2020-04-13T02:32:19 < Ultrasauce> getting a little tight in there huh
2020-04-13T02:32:57 < qyx> yeah routing isnot going to be optimal
2020-04-13T02:34:40 < zyp> the sdcard socket placement is annoying me more than it should
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2020-04-13T02:36:44 < karlp> are we doing boards? https://bin.jvnv.net/file/olJr6.jpg
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2020-04-13T02:37:04 < karlp> just gotta decide whether to put these esd protection in or not.
2020-04-13T02:37:19 < karlp> and probably need some input caps on this raw 5v supply I decided was going to save my day
2020-04-13T02:38:02 < zyp> I did some digging in the stm32g0 pin mapping
2020-04-13T02:39:27 < zyp> now I just need to figure out what I want to do with power
2020-04-13T02:40:40 < qyx> zyp: why
2020-04-13T02:40:51 < zyp> a pmod is supplied with 3.3V, I figure I'll make a 5V header as well
2020-04-13T02:41:17 < qyx> oh karlp is povraying
2020-04-13T02:41:34 < zyp> then some switches that can supply vbus and vconn from 5V
2020-04-13T02:41:55 < karlp> well, thought I'd try what that slow option did.
2020-04-13T02:42:01 < karlp> seems pretty poitnless really
2020-04-13T02:42:12 < zyp> and I guess a diode to feed 5V from 3.3V so I can feed vconn even without the 5V supply
2020-04-13T02:43:16 < zyp> also if I wanna play with PD, shit needs to handle >5V as well
2020-04-13T02:43:53 < zyp> I guess simplest way to achieve that is to make sure vbus switch can handle 20V, and put vbus on its own header as well
2020-04-13T02:44:51 < zyp> and also that vbus switch blocks in reverse direction
2020-04-13T02:45:11 < zyp> that should do it
2020-04-13T02:45:47 < zyp> the dedicated PD chips that also integrates the power switches are starting to look more and more interesting :p
2020-04-13T02:49:31  * karlp laughs
2020-04-13T02:52:58 < zyp> oh, there's stuff like TPS66020
2020-04-13T02:54:08 < karlp> hrm,  just realised the usb esd protection stuff I ordered assumes that vbus is the same.
2020-04-13T02:54:12 < karlp> so much for shortcuts
2020-04-13T02:54:24 < karlp> I've used dualstack ports, but they're invidivually switched.
2020-04-13T02:54:53 < zyp> can't you just leave vbus out?
2020-04-13T02:55:43 < karlp> well, the upper side of them is to vbus, this is usblc6-4 or nup4202
2020-04-13T02:56:03 < karlp> I guess I could have that go to the unswitched bulk 5V
2020-04-13T02:56:20 < karlp> but that isn't really protecting esd on the vbus then.
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2020-04-13T02:56:49 < karlp> whole point of one of these integreated "designed for usb" was to get data lines+vbus protection in the same device.
2020-04-13T02:57:13 < zyp> can't you just leave it unconnected? there's a zener that'll provide a ground path anyway
2020-04-13T02:57:37 < karlp> yeah, but if it's not going to protect vbus anyway, I might as well just go "fuck it" and leave it for another rev, if ever.
2020-04-13T02:58:02 < zyp> I figure vbus is a lot less sensitive to esd in the first place
2020-04-13T02:58:39 < zyp> but anyway, if you're that concerned, just use twice the number of them
2020-04-13T02:59:04 < karlp> well, that's usblc6-2,
2020-04-13T02:59:07 < zyp> IIRC most usb esd protection shit comes with four inputs plus vbus
2020-04-13T02:59:10 < karlp> I should have bought them now it seems.
2020-04-13T02:59:21 < zyp> at least the ones I used once did
2020-04-13T03:00:24 < karlp> usblc6-4 is for 4 data lines + vbus+ground, usb6-2 is for 2 data + vbus + ground.  (both in 6pin packages, oen of them is straight through)
2020-04-13T03:00:39 < karlp> given that I have separate vbus, I should have used 2xusblc6-2.
2020-04-13T03:00:47 < karlp> instead of thinking I could save space/money and use the -4.
2020-04-13T03:01:05 < karlp> I guess I could put footprints for the -2, and just not mount them as i didn't order it
2020-04-13T03:01:36 < zyp> I don't remember exactly what I used, I think it was some nxp part, but it had four inputs
2020-04-13T03:01:38 < karlp> holy shit, the kicad syumbol for the -2 is attrocious
2020-04-13T03:01:59 < zyp> https://bin.jvnv.net/file/JGZvG.png <- it's sitting to the left of the MCU
2020-04-13T03:02:01 < karlp> well, did it _really_ have 4 inputs, or just four terminals, and you wired straight across it,
2020-04-13T03:02:18 < zyp> four inputs, I used two of them
2020-04-13T03:02:20 < karlp> looks like you only used h alf
2020-04-13T03:02:28 < zyp> yes
2020-04-13T03:02:29 < karlp> yeah, that's likelt the nup4202 maybe
2020-04-13T03:02:35 < zyp> correct
2020-04-13T03:02:43 < zyp> my point is that you can do it that way :p
2020-04-13T03:02:47 < karlp> the usblc6-2 is designed to sit directly on top of the traces and br routed straight through
2020-04-13T03:02:54 < zyp> you don't have to use all four even if it has four
2020-04-13T03:02:57 < karlp> oh, sure, but that's a lot of extra space.
2020-04-13T03:03:05 < karlp> because it's not as easy to route that way.
2020-04-13T03:03:06 < zyp> and sitting across the traces like this works fine
2020-04-13T03:03:10 < karlp> maybe.
2020-04-13T03:03:12  * karlp rechecks
2020-04-13T03:03:39 < zyp> «a lot of extra space»
2020-04-13T03:03:45 < zyp> dude, your board is full of empty area
2020-04-13T03:04:06 < karlp> look at this garbage: https://bin.jvnv.net/file/33zAw.png
2020-04-13T03:04:15 < zyp> haha
2020-04-13T03:04:38 < karlp> who the fuck thought that was a good idea
2020-04-13T03:05:37 < karlp> right, ok, I can use the -4 as a -2, and just have twice as many diodes in use.
2020-04-13T03:05:47 < karlp> I don't have enough for all the pcbs then, but htat's fine :)
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2020-04-13T03:06:58 < zyp> TPS66020 looks pretty neat, WLCSP28, 0.4mm pitch, but it's 4x7 and all the inner pads plus two outer pads are vbus, so it doesn't need any vias under or routing between pads
2020-04-13T03:08:49 < karlp> yes yes, I know there's "lots" of space on that board anyway :)
2020-04-13T03:09:01 < karlp> everythings on ~10mil traces apart from the usb lines even.
2020-04-13T03:09:10 < karlp> it's crazy having 4 layers available 
2020-04-13T03:09:41 < zyp> careful, it's addictive :)
2020-04-13T03:09:54 < zyp> hmm
2020-04-13T03:10:06 < zyp> this thing includes a LDO and a power mux as well
2020-04-13T03:10:58 < zyp> I could feed it the 3.3V input and it'll either give me that or LDO from vbus, meaning the board could run completely standalone too
2020-04-13T03:18:34 < emeb> lol - got a raycasting maze runner with textures working on an STM32G431. Getting > 60fps from it. Checked and discovered that I'm overclocking the SPI bus - datasheet rates it for no more than 40MHz but I was running it at 85MHz.
2020-04-13T03:18:54 < zyp> nice :)
2020-04-13T03:18:56 < emeb> kind of amazed that the LCD runs that fast.
2020-04-13T03:20:26 < emeb> backing off until the SPI bus was closer to max (42.5 vs 40 spec) and the thing is still > 30fps indicating that it's almost entirely limited by the SPI bus.
2020-04-13T03:20:48 < emeb> raycasting is pretty cool
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2020-04-13T03:22:54 < ds2> hmmmmm never knew sourcing a FT4232/FT2232 board quickly can be such a pain
2020-04-13T03:23:18 < zyp> how so?
2020-04-13T03:23:29 < ds2> min. delivery time is 2-3 weeks :(
2020-04-13T03:23:38 < zyp> from any distributor?
2020-04-13T03:23:45 < ds2> anyone that I can find that is shipping
2020-04-13T03:24:00 < ds2> direct from china is estimated to be in June
2020-04-13T03:24:01 < zyp> which distributors are not shipping?
2020-04-13T03:24:10 < ds2> or $30+ shipping is the other option
2020-04-13T03:24:24 < ds2> Adafruit is not shipping regular orders
2020-04-13T03:24:55 < ds2> is there another database I am missing? Been looking at Amz mostly
2020-04-13T03:26:16 < ds2> but it is looking like I am finding a good use for the icestick ;)
2020-04-13T03:35:16 < kakimir> https://drive.google.com/file/d/1S74WOERwXF16JgRLjVfu2_ao3OBvB-r4/view?usp=sharing highest aspect ratio I have ever maed
2020-04-13T03:48:30 < aandrew> Ray casting?
2020-04-13T03:48:42 < kakimir> no
2020-04-13T03:48:45 < kakimir> yes
2020-04-13T03:48:48 < kakimir> idk idc
2020-04-13T03:49:13 < kakimir> kakinull>
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2020-04-13T04:06:02 < englishman> can you tell me what this light on my console does? guy answers - i wish someone would write a console handbook. because that is where i looking to answer, did you not read yours? 
2020-04-13T04:06:22 < englishman> nice burns in this apollo audio
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2020-04-13T04:20:18 < Ultrasauce> 'help our vehicle just exploded'  'rtfm moron'
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2020-04-13T04:30:24 < emeb_mac> aandrew: yes, this -> https://lodev.org/cgtutor/raycasting.html
2020-04-13T04:52:12 < kakinull> yezz
2020-04-13T04:52:21 < kakinull> french military masks
2020-04-13T04:52:25 < kakinull> 60eur
2020-04-13T04:52:41 < kakinull> I finally get mine
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2020-04-13T05:52:29 < mawk> where kakinull 
2020-04-13T05:52:35 < mawk> gimme your mask
2020-04-13T05:52:37 < mawk> requisition
2020-04-13T05:52:56 < kakinull> varusteleka.fi
2020-04-13T05:53:13 < mawk> too many consonnants in that url
2020-04-13T05:53:32 < kakinull> it's totally uncomplicated finnish word
2020-04-13T05:54:14 < kakinull> there was AFR french masks earlier for 30eur
2020-04-13T05:55:02 < kakinull> I missed it.. So I have to go with 60eur Fernez
2020-04-13T05:56:23 < mawk> no filterz
2020-04-13T05:57:21 < kakinull> those are still available elsewhere
2020-04-13T05:57:54 < kakinull> cheap P3 filters are gone
2020-04-13T05:58:21 < kakinull> but more expensive combined filters still available
2020-04-13T05:58:54 < kakinull> P3 does it and costs like 7eur a pop
2020-04-13T05:59:30 < kakinull> A2B2EK-P2 or something like that costs 30eur
2020-04-13T05:59:36 < kakinull> *P3
2020-04-13T06:01:18 < kakinull> mawk: are you seriously trying to buy a mask and filters?
2020-04-13T06:01:25 < mawk> no
2020-04-13T06:01:34 < mawk> I stay at home
2020-04-13T06:01:40 < mawk> and have disinfectant spray in my pocket
2020-04-13T06:02:06 < kakinull> do you have forced face cover / mask yet?
2020-04-13T06:03:56 < mawk> no
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2020-04-13T06:08:00 < mawk> maybe I should buy some masks tho
2020-04-13T06:08:05 < mawk> when NL says they're mandatory
2020-04-13T06:08:32 < mawk> I have two or three for painting but that's not virus friendly
2020-04-13T06:08:56 < kakinull> I don't think it's the point to get ffp3 for everyone
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2020-04-13T06:14:07 < mawk> they give ffp2 to healthcare ppl here
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2020-04-13T06:19:01 < englishman> varusteleka is great
2020-04-13T06:19:40 < englishman> idk about buying meme shit like gas masks from them tho
2020-04-13T06:21:31 < kakinull> I bought a hoodie and shcoka kola
2020-04-13T06:21:57 < englishman> the merino zip front hoodie?
2020-04-13T06:21:59 < kakinull> pilot glasses
2020-04-13T06:22:05 < kakinull> yes
2020-04-13T06:22:33 < kakinull> and other shiet
2020-04-13T06:23:55 < englishman> I like it but it wore out really fast
2020-04-13T06:27:47 < kakinull> my first one black medium didn't
2020-04-13T06:28:07 < kakinull> second one green large did
2020-04-13T06:28:41 < kakinull> quality got worse or something
2020-04-13T06:30:27 < kakinull> shit.. I ordered green
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2020-04-13T07:05:57 < Thorn> https://twitter.com/AdiShavit/status/1249055920111452163
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2020-04-13T08:19:19 < dongs> https://www.aliexpress.com/item/428413246.html
2020-04-13T08:19:22 < dongs> anyone know what this is a clone of
2020-04-13T08:19:26 < dongs> panasonic or whatever
2020-04-13T08:20:57 < dongs> ah maybe alps
2020-04-13T08:22:35 < boddax> look good with metal shield enforced
2020-04-13T08:22:55 < dongs> its a good switch, but i forgot to get some from chinagirl. now i need to find legit source for some quick samples
2020-04-13T08:23:02 < dongs> ive used it in production on other shit.
2020-04-13T08:23:16 < dongs> not alps
2020-04-13T08:28:34 < boddax> shield soldered safe from shock ...many other are only clamped to the plastic body weak thing
2020-04-13T08:29:22 < dongs> \https://dznh3ojzb2azq.cloudfront.net/products/Slide/PCM/documents/datasheet.pdf
2020-04-13T08:29:28 < dongs> https://www.digikey.jp/product-detail/en/c-k/PCM12SMTR/401-2016-1-ND/1640125
2020-04-13T08:29:29 < dongs> looks same
2020-04-13T08:31:29 < dongs> same footprint
2020-04-13T08:31:51 < boddax> 118 jap money in euro ?
2020-04-13T08:31:57 < dongs> too much
2020-04-13T08:31:59 < dongs> liek 1 eur
2020-04-13T08:33:33 < boddax> expensiv but look much better than the other one
2020-04-13T08:38:01 < dongs> what doyou mean?
2020-04-13T08:38:03 < dongs> they're exactly same
2020-04-13T08:41:22 < upgrdman_> anyone use the win10 ssh server? my windows username has no password, but ssh keeps saying invalid password when i just press enter
2020-04-13T08:44:23 < dongs> im sure ssh will not allow blank password login
2020-04-13T08:44:30 < upgrdman_> ya
2020-04-13T08:44:41 < upgrdman_> k, well i added a super secure password. works now
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2020-04-13T13:19:07 -!- Streaker is now known as password3
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2020-04-13T13:26:52 -!- password_one is now known as con3
2020-04-13T13:27:49 < PaulFertser> Is anyone interested to hear details about the new Moscow system for moving around the city permits?
2020-04-13T13:28:17 < Cracki> the wat
2020-04-13T13:28:18 < zyp> sure
2020-04-13T13:28:30 < Cracki> lemme guess, inject a microchip
2020-04-13T13:28:40 < Cracki> install the app, bigot?
2020-04-13T13:31:11 < PaulFertser> So if you want to go somewhere using a private (including pushbikes) or public transport you need to get a permit. It's possible via one of three ways: 1. official web interface; 2. sending a message via SMS; 3. Calling voice support line
2020-04-13T13:32:16 < PaulFertser> You specify where you currently live and why you need the permit. If you work for an organisation that's still allowed to be active you specify the organisational "tax ID" and get permit till the end of April. 
2020-04-13T13:32:39 < PaulFertser> If you need to go to a medical clinic or some such you specify what clinic are you going to.
2020-04-13T13:33:06 < Cracki> ... do they enforce that by military power
2020-04-13T13:33:13 < PaulFertser> (and the permit lasts for one day only). If you just need to go somewhere for another reason you specify the reason, the permit is valid for the day but you can only be getting that permit twice a week.
2020-04-13T13:33:48 < Cracki> so if my outhouse is across the street I need to restrict myself to shitting twice a week or what
2020-04-13T13:34:03 < PaulFertser> In response you get 16-digit (and they say some letters too but I'd guess those are in fact hex digits) number that you need to carry with you along with your ID. And police can check your ID + number.
2020-04-13T13:34:07 < PaulFertser> No military involved.
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2020-04-13T13:34:15 < Cracki> tyrants are testing the people's tolerance for this bullshit
2020-04-13T13:34:29 < PaulFertser> You can walk to the nearest shop or to walk a dog (within 100 m) without any permits.
2020-04-13T13:36:51 < Cracki> buy more guns
2020-04-13T13:37:12 < Cracki> I just googled for vp9 (the video codec). gargle gives me heckler & koch for #1
2020-04-13T13:37:23 < PaulFertser> Does this sound reasonable to you folks? I see you'd be unhappy with such a system Cracki but I think I'd rather prefer such a reasonably lax system rather than having all the hospitals overflown the next week.
2020-04-13T13:37:33 < Cracki> sounds entirely unreasonable
2020-04-13T13:38:16 < PaulFertser> Noted
2020-04-13T13:38:19 < Cracki> why are people unable to learn from the asians?
2020-04-13T13:38:25 < Cracki> masks. hygiene.
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2020-04-13T13:38:39 < PaulFertser> Apparently, that's not working good enough in practice.
2020-04-13T13:38:58 < Cracki> not apparent
2020-04-13T13:39:04 < Cracki> explain sweden
2020-04-13T13:40:11 < Cracki> explain germany. most hospitals have free beds. https://interaktiv.morgenpost.de/corona-deutschland-intensiv-betten-monitor-krankenhaus-auslastung/
2020-04-13T13:40:31 < Cracki> beds, 58% used
2020-04-13T13:40:38 < Cracki> (ICU beds)
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2020-04-13T13:40:57 < Cracki> density of beds <> density of cases
2020-04-13T13:41:25 < Cracki> lots of cases near bayreuth (bavaria), but lots of free beds in NRW (western part)
2020-04-13T13:42:17 < Cracki> the map speaks volumes. you have to squint to find red dots. big fat blue circles everywhere
2020-04-13T13:42:35 < PaulFertser> Cracki: moscow hospitals are already close to their capacity limit. And we have few weeks to reach the epidemy peak.
2020-04-13T13:43:19 -!- password3 is now known as Streaker
2020-04-13T13:43:55 < Cracki> I spot checked some red dots... they have 0 or 3 wuflu patients and already report they're full
2020-04-13T13:44:50 < Cracki> some yellow dots only report yellow because they are near capacity with ECMO, which is for the most severe cases that don't respond to ventilation at all
2020-04-13T13:46:37 < Cracki> russia, zero point 6 deaths per million. everyone else has more https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/
2020-04-13T13:47:05 < Cracki> 8 serious/critical. can you explain those numbers
2020-04-13T13:48:58 < Cracki> if your hospitals are near capacity, I must wonder if they had appropriate capacity to begin with
2020-04-13T13:58:15 < PaulFertser> Cracki: probably not appropriate capacity, who knows. And I'm talking about Moscow specifically, we have quite some population density here (on in the other parts of russia).
2020-04-13T13:58:51 < Cracki> city dwellers have more contact with a more diverse range of people. that facilitates spread.
2020-04-13T14:00:46 < Cracki> our state media documentaries on emergency services (several years old) show that hospitals are not seldom at capacity and some patient has to be delivered to a hospital that isn't the nearest to the accident
2020-04-13T14:13:24 < zyp> hmm, this stm32 is the first one I don't split the schematic symbol for
2020-04-13T14:13:39 < zyp> doesn't really have enough IO to justify more than one symbol: https://bin.jvnv.net/file/ZM6CN.png
2020-04-13T14:14:04 < BrainDamage> Cracki: asians also did pervasive tracking, not just individual measures
2020-04-13T14:14:16 < zyp> normally I do one symbol per full gpio block and one for the leftovers
2020-04-13T14:14:27 < zyp> but this one doesn't really have anything but leftovers
2020-04-13T14:14:38 < Cracki> do you split them by peripheral maybe?
2020-04-13T14:14:57 < Cracki> (imho ecad software should allow splitting of symbol per-instance, not have fixed symbols)
2020-04-13T14:15:32 < zyp> https://bin.jvnv.net/file/DUqND.pdf <- see page 2, that's what I usually do
2020-04-13T14:15:32 < Cracki> so you could move pins between fragments, where symbols are parametric things, not a fixed vector graphic someone once drew
2020-04-13T14:16:00 < Cracki> looks tidy
2020-04-13T14:16:44 < zyp> but I can't really justify that for this G0
2020-04-13T14:17:37 < zyp> also, looking at how peripherals are mapped, it'd maybe be even tidier to just order the pins as they are in the package
2020-04-13T14:18:08 < zyp> e.g. I'm probably gonna use pins 14-17 for UCPD, they are PB0, PB15, PA8 and PC6 respectively
2020-04-13T14:18:30 < zyp> or maybe I'll use PD0..3
2020-04-13T14:18:46 < zyp> depends what other pins I end up with
2020-04-13T14:19:04 < Cracki> right. they're often already close together
2020-04-13T14:19:44 < zyp> not worth overthinking though
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2020-04-13T14:28:52 < boddax> yehh  resurrected https://i.ibb.co/ctz4Vnh/scope1.jpg
2020-04-13T14:29:18 < boddax> not jesus but my junk shop scope
2020-04-13T14:32:37 < Steffanx> junk scope?
2020-04-13T14:36:58 -!- Streaker is now known as password3
2020-04-13T14:47:22 < kakinull> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zone_of_Death_(legal)
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2020-04-13T14:57:24 < zyp> this footprint is kinda ridiculous: https://bin.jvnv.net/file/On70I.png
2020-04-13T15:06:39 < dongs> is that qfn32 STM
2020-04-13T15:06:49 < dongs> er qfn28
2020-04-13T15:19:11 < dongs> man the way it looks, makes my eyes think its like concave
2020-04-13T15:19:26 < dongs> or convex rather
2020-04-13T15:25:53 < Steffanx> lol, indeed.
2020-04-13T15:29:12 < qyx> yeah F0  g4u4 or g6u6 stm32 in qfn28
2020-04-13T15:29:15 < qyx> my favorite
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2020-04-13T15:36:53 < Steffanx> this is probably G0?
2020-04-13T15:38:12 < boddax> yah bought as not working for 200 euro
2020-04-13T15:39:10 < Steffanx> heh sounds like a fine deal
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2020-04-13T15:39:35 < boddax> from electronics garbage authorized collector
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2020-04-13T15:39:42 < zyp> Steffanx, yeah
2020-04-13T15:39:53 < zyp> STM32G071GBU6N
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2020-04-13T15:48:51 < Steffanx> what was broken boddax?
2020-04-13T15:49:27 < boddax> motherboard caps and battery gone
2020-04-13T15:50:15 < Steffanx> So you just replaced it all and done?
2020-04-13T15:50:19 < boddax> 12 caps 1000uf onlt one was bad sanyo cap 
2020-04-13T15:50:53 < boddax> yes but super difficoult to disassemble
2020-04-13T15:51:29 < boddax> isnt tektronix or hp easy and documented manuals to disasm
2020-04-13T15:51:42 < PaulFertser> Just fucking awesome.
2020-04-13T15:52:02 < PaulFertser> Wished I knew such a garbage collector here
2020-04-13T15:52:07 < Steffanx> Yeah, same.
2020-04-13T15:52:12 < Steffanx> and language, PaulFertser. language :P
2020-04-13T15:52:15 < boddax> still everywhere
2020-04-13T15:52:42 < boddax> just look around especially who bring outsource from telecom things
2020-04-13T15:52:44 < PaulFertser> Steffanx: sorry, I'll remember to add "nigger" the next time.
2020-04-13T15:52:50 < Steffanx> Here in dutchland they wouldnt bring such stuff to a "electronics garbage authorized collector". 
2020-04-13T15:53:09 < Steffanx> and even if they would, then the collector isnt probably allowed to sell anything to me.
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2020-04-13T15:53:44 < boddax> here Italy any ..computer electronics need separate garbage authirized to recycle or destoy
2020-04-13T15:53:48 < Steffanx> there will not be a next time PaulFertser  :P
2020-04-13T15:53:59 < aandrew> boddax: nice “junk” scope!
2020-04-13T15:54:07 < aandrew> What was wrong with it
2020-04-13T15:54:19 < Steffanx> déjà vu:P
2020-04-13T15:54:23 < Steffanx> [14:48:50] <Steffanx> what was broken boddax?
2020-04-13T15:54:23 < Steffanx> [14:49:27] <boddax> motherboard caps and battery gone
2020-04-13T15:54:28 < boddax> battery and caps of mobo ..have xp pro
2020-04-13T15:54:34 < dongs> < PaulFertser> Steffanx: sorry, I'll remember to add "nigger" the next time.
2020-04-13T15:54:35 < dongs> lol
2020-04-13T15:54:53 < boddax> bcmcom industrial mb ..only pc104 connector
2020-04-13T15:55:05 < BrainDamage> install coronalinux on it
2020-04-13T15:56:17 < boddax> you closed to Novara BrainDamage ..overthere there one of them ..big area junk electronics
2020-04-13T15:57:04 < BrainDamage> if by "close" you mean a 2h drive, then yes
2020-04-13T15:57:21 < boddax> sure Steffanx isnt thing to found of everyday
2020-04-13T15:57:34 < PaulFertser> Congratulations boddax!
2020-04-13T15:58:18 < boddax> my friend found 20gs/s tek scope for 800 euro has only lcd cracked ..10.4 inch 
2020-04-13T15:58:37 < Steffanx> awesome.
2020-04-13T16:02:59 < jadew> man... android is such a piece of shit
2020-04-13T16:03:17 < zyp> ok
2020-04-13T16:03:24 < jadew> the API is opensource-level retarded
2020-04-13T16:03:48 < jadew> lots of deprecations with no replacement, shit that's supposed to work but it doesn't
2020-04-13T16:03:50 < PaulFertser> jadew: some android devices have PMTU discovery disabled so they just fail to work when e.g. connected with wifi to a PPPoE link.
2020-04-13T16:03:58 < PaulFertser> Can you imagine that?
2020-04-13T16:04:07 < PaulFertser> Of course no way to enable it without root.
2020-04-13T16:04:15 < PaulFertser> How can you folks tolerate all the filth...
2020-04-13T16:04:16 < jadew> the whole thing is a complete mess
2020-04-13T16:04:22 < dongs> ya lets all switch to iphone
2020-04-13T16:04:39 < Steffanx> Will we use Swift or objective-c?
2020-04-13T16:04:49 < PaulFertser> Oh, deprecations. When applications lost the API to access SD card. Are you serious google?!
2020-04-13T16:05:35 < jadew> PaulFertser, they deprecated the way in which you can turn on the screen (for example when you dispatch a notification) but didn't provide an alternative
2020-04-13T16:06:07 < PaulFertser> jadew: and they do not even allow to provide sane notifications at all to all but the "selected apps".
2020-04-13T16:06:39 < jadew> yep, it seems there's a lot of private API too
2020-04-13T16:06:43 < aandrew> Yeah I loved PaulFertser’s response to Steffanx too. Awesome 
2020-04-13T16:06:53 < kakimir> https://drive.google.com/file/d/1E5739VLOdT5EwAss4dgurxgbymVJCi26/view?usp=sharing this is how I want it?
2020-04-13T16:07:19 < jadew> for example, the API for the light notifications doesn't seem to work... but it does for those "selected apps" like you call them
2020-04-13T16:09:01 < jadew> all the example code you find is a clusterfuck of if (SDK.version > X) {} else if (SDK.version...) - fucking retarded
2020-04-13T16:10:01 < jadew> even because of stupid shit like isScreenOn() being renamed to something else
2020-04-13T16:11:22 < Laurenceb> >Google
2020-04-13T16:11:32 < Laurenceb> I think they are suffering from brain drain tbh
2020-04-13T16:11:42 < Laurenceb> in uk maps has been horribly broken for months
2020-04-13T16:11:52 < Steffanx> no, its you.
2020-04-13T16:11:59 < Laurenceb> random gaps in roads, place names incorrect or in wrong preference
2020-04-13T16:12:32 < Laurenceb> also minor roads almost the same colour as the background, but thats always been the case
2020-04-13T16:12:35 < jadew> don't know what's going on, but to me, it's the worst example of breaking backward compatibility
2020-04-13T16:12:45 < Laurenceb> openstreetmap is like 1000 times more user friendly
2020-04-13T16:14:16 < specing> open sores map
2020-04-13T16:14:18 < specing> :)
2020-04-13T16:14:30 < specing> Naturally free software is better
2020-04-13T16:14:45 < Laurenceb> it even has contours
2020-04-13T16:14:56 < Laurenceb> >google maps literally less useful than victorian maps
2020-04-13T16:15:10 < Steffanx> Laurenceb:  linky to such error?
2020-04-13T16:15:31 < jadew> I like how they keep information from you in maps, when navigating
2020-04-13T16:15:32 < Laurenceb> try looking at uk and scrolling in and out
2020-04-13T16:15:41 < jadew> like the speed limit
2020-04-13T16:15:42 < Laurenceb> you will see gaps appear in the motorways
2020-04-13T16:15:54 < Laurenceb> looks like an off by one error in the rendering
2020-04-13T16:16:00 < jadew> they are displaying the speed now... like you don't have an indicator on the dashboard
2020-04-13T16:16:23 < Laurenceb> >James Damore was the last competent coder
2020-04-13T16:17:23 < Laurenceb> Steffanx: also if you are from the UK you will realise half the names have inappropriate preference
2020-04-13T16:17:24 < BrainDamage> jadew: the gps one is more accurate than the car's
2020-04-13T16:17:55 < BrainDamage> except at low speeds, but those are hardly relevant for speed limits
2020-04-13T16:18:04 < jadew> sure, but I don't really give a crap if it's ±5km/h, if I don't know what the speed limit is
2020-04-13T16:18:27 < Laurenceb> in other words a suburb appears to be more significant than a town/city at some zoom levels
2020-04-13T16:18:31 < jadew> they do that because Waze has the limit
2020-04-13T16:18:34 < jadew> and they don't want to kill it
2020-04-13T16:19:30 < Laurenceb> meanwhile openstreetmap even has accurate house numbers and house layout in most of uk now
2020-04-13T16:20:03 < BrainDamage> here there's even frigging trees marked in parks
2020-04-13T16:20:17 < jadew> in maps?
2020-04-13T16:20:23 < BrainDamage> in openstreetmap
2020-04-13T16:20:29 < jadew> I should check it out
2020-04-13T16:20:57 < Laurenceb> aiui openstreetmap is getting serious commercial input now? From microsoft?
2020-04-13T16:21:11 < BrainDamage> the main problem of OSM is political
2020-04-13T16:21:14 < jadew> oh, they have traffic data too?
2020-04-13T16:21:42 < jadew> I like the way it looks
2020-04-13T16:21:46 < BrainDamage> they want openstreetmap.org to be "just a demo" and everyone else should use another frontend, and yet people still get pointed there
2020-04-13T16:22:26 < jadew> I love it
2020-04-13T16:23:12 < BrainDamage> I love that OSM offers data in vectorial way, unlike google's
2020-04-13T16:23:24 < BrainDamage> so i have whole map of italy within a couple of gigs
2020-04-13T16:23:42 < karlp> dongs: speaking of tiny buttons, seen these super thing membrane ones? white bit in the middle here: https://false.ekta.is/wp-content/uploads/2020/04/side-wifi-smaller-2048x1233.jpg
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2020-04-13T16:34:57 < zyp> dongs, what's your favorite dual nfet?
2020-04-13T16:37:34 < karlp> also, what's with that aliexpress link, 0% positive feedback, no products listed, but still you got a link to the switch?!
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2020-04-13T17:06:31 < dongs> AS4C4M16SA-7BCN
2020-04-13T17:06:34 < dongs> zyp hm
2020-04-13T17:06:37 < dongs> dont have any
2020-04-13T17:06:47 < dongs> btw ^ that thing is $5 in samples from chinagirl
2020-04-13T17:06:51 < dongs> and can be routed on 2L
2020-04-13T17:07:19 < dongs> oh, its cheaper on mouser.
2020-04-13T17:07:21 < dongs> nvm
2020-04-13T17:07:26 < zyp> SSM6N7002KFU looks good
2020-04-13T17:07:27 < dongs> only 2.30 there
2020-04-13T17:07:32 < zyp> cheapest dual nfet on digikey
2020-04-13T17:07:34 < dongs> does ao or someshit not have one?
2020-04-13T17:17:14 < zyp> https://bin.jvnv.net/file/I3mlU.png
2020-04-13T17:17:38 < dongs> whats the footprint on that anyway
2020-04-13T17:17:39 < dongs> SOT23-6?
2020-04-13T17:18:07 < zyp> starting to look like something, just needs the pmod header, a header for power and some decoupling
2020-04-13T17:18:21 < zyp> and maybe dick around with IO a bit more
2020-04-13T17:19:11 < zyp> SC-88/SOT-363
2020-04-13T17:19:44 < zyp> which is apparently more or less identical to the SC-70 that those TPS switches are 
2020-04-13T17:19:51 < fenugrec> yea, is 2x sc70 or simialr easier to route than 1x sot23-6
2020-04-13T17:21:11 < zyp> https://bin.jvnv.net/file/59PFw.png <- the tag-connect looks kinda huge next to everything else
2020-04-13T17:24:21 < kakimir> https://drive.google.com/file/d/1aWsanJ3oJrKd7-8oWfCu7aqX7UBnifpK/view?usp=sharing
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2020-04-13T17:32:38 < Steffanx> intf.?
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2020-04-13T17:36:04 < karlp> target, interface?
2020-04-13T17:36:31 < kakimir> y
2020-04-13T17:38:19 < kakimir> it needs to be polarized because of ground vias
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2020-04-13T18:10:51 < Steffanx> i was hoping for something terribly finnish :P
2020-04-13T18:22:10 < karlp> so, after far too much autism, four line esd protectors like usblc6-4 are actually super common, and dedicated two line ones are actually more expsnive and only western. so all good
2020-04-13T18:22:24 < zyp> well, yes
2020-04-13T18:22:49 < karlp> well, I'd had a hard time finding the chinese variants last time,
2020-04-13T18:22:55 < zyp> the one I used was IP4220CZ6
2020-04-13T18:23:00 < karlp> now that I know more of what i'm looking for, it was much easier...
2020-04-13T18:23:24 < emeb> +1 for IP4220CZ6
2020-04-13T18:24:25 < karlp> is tsop6 == sot23-6? or do I have to remeasure these things?
2020-04-13T18:25:28 < karlp> yeah, ip4220cz6 and up4202 and usblc6-4 are all ~same
2020-04-13T18:28:15 < karlp> yes, tsop6 == sot23-6 it seems
2020-04-13T18:28:44 < emeb> because why would you have just one name for a footprint?
2020-04-13T18:29:16 < karlp> heh, well, those are the _common_ names, nxp of course has more again
2020-04-13T18:29:50 < karlp> SOT457 _and_ SC-74 are also the same
2020-04-13T18:36:12 < englishman> esd is a myth invented by semtech and intertek to sell diodes and test guns
2020-04-13T18:38:52 < BrainDamage> ESD causes covid-19 and 5G
2020-04-13T18:40:57  * emeb has a bad case of ESD
2020-04-13T18:41:32 < emeb> after all - why do you think there's such thing as "Human Body Model"?
2020-04-13T18:43:57 < BrainDamage> mmm, to compare footprints, I bet you could do programmatically by overlap
2020-04-13T18:44:23 < BrainDamage> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Scale-invariant_feature_transform ought to work
2020-04-13T18:45:21 < aandrew> englishman: fighting the good fight against big ESD
2020-04-13T18:45:21 < BrainDamage> maybe the version with rotation too
2020-04-13T18:46:20 < jpa-> BrainDamage: for footprints, wouldn't you want scale-variant features?
2020-04-13T18:46:38 < BrainDamage> jpa-: you compare scales separately
2020-04-13T18:47:45 < BrainDamage> this is just for quick lookup in a db
2020-04-13T18:48:02 < BrainDamage> to compare scale then you rotate/translate ridigily after scaling
2020-04-13T18:49:15 < BrainDamage> so first pass detects shape, and second detects size on a much smaller set of matching shapes
2020-04-13T18:49:38 < jpa-> it just seems kind of pointless to first go through all the trouble to achieve scale-invariance and then compare scale separately :)
2020-04-13T18:50:13 < BrainDamage> I'm not aware of a fast algo that does fast fixed scale matching
2020-04-13T18:50:55 < BrainDamage> because all research is in the scale invariant ones for machine vision
2020-04-13T18:51:01 < invzim> man 4 calls from China today, some ass must have signed me up for something
2020-04-13T18:51:19 < invzim> the person they're trying to reach is not me
2020-04-13T18:51:42 < BrainDamage> so you'd have to check overlap by eg cross correlation
2020-04-13T18:51:48 < jpa-> any corner detector would work, or even just downscaled bitmap after you normalize rotation & position (by image moments or similar)
2020-04-13T18:53:09 < BrainDamage> oh, you're correct
2020-04-13T18:58:43 < Laurenceb> trees!
2020-04-13T18:58:49 < Laurenceb> those fuckers are everywhere
2020-04-13T18:58:55 < Laurenceb> I bet they did covid-19
2020-04-13T19:00:29 < kakimir> yes
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2020-04-13T19:06:41 < Laurenceb> til about INSPIN
2020-04-13T19:06:43 < Laurenceb> my sides
2020-04-13T19:06:57 < antto> loirens, treephobia?
2020-04-13T19:07:02 < Laurenceb> yeah
2020-04-13T19:07:05 < Laurenceb> >INvoluntary SPINsterhood
2020-04-13T19:08:02 < Steffanx> channers are everywhere > covid-0x13
2020-04-13T19:11:03 < antto> right now there's a tree outside Laurenceb's hauz.. i *THINK* it's the same tree that was there yesterday too
2020-04-13T19:11:11 < antto> it's stalking u!
2020-04-13T19:11:41 < antto> one of its branches has a weird shape, it looks like a sword
2020-04-13T19:12:48 < antto> wait, is it me or has it moved 1 meter closer now?!
2020-04-13T19:16:29 < Steffanx> is antto alright? Do you know?
2020-04-13T19:16:56 < antto> u should be moar worried for loirens
2020-04-13T19:17:20 < Steffanx> the loirencer isnt alright, cant be fixed.
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2020-04-13T19:17:35 < antto> he can be fixed
2020-04-13T19:17:36 < jpa-> we've tried for years
2020-04-13T19:17:54 < antto> cut hiz internetz off and stop his drugz
2020-04-13T19:17:58 < Steffanx> The good old blaxter-ratio.
2020-04-13T19:18:03 < jpa-> but i think antto is unfixable also, he has the lolcat virus
2020-04-13T19:18:40 < antto> my lolcatness is intermittent, i can haz control it
2020-04-13T19:19:15 < Steffanx> Hows being finnish going jpa-?
2020-04-13T19:19:30 < antto> what's wrong with being finnish?
2020-04-13T19:20:35 < BrainDamage> you don't have to practice social isolation too, you know? there's no need to be hostile against all sort of meaningful comunication
2020-04-13T19:20:37 < jpa-> Steffanx: it's snowing again
2020-04-13T19:21:19 < BrainDamage> jpa-: is the calendar split into snow/not-snow seasons?
2020-04-13T19:21:37 < antto> or day/night
2020-04-13T19:21:57 < jpa-> BrainDamage: there is no not-snow season, we just call it "hail" when it comes in summer, it makes us feel better
2020-04-13T19:22:26 < BrainDamage> ah, so you differentiate seasons by the shape of the ice, i see
2020-04-13T19:22:29 < antto> hm.. we're at least lucky we got all proper 4 seasons here
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2020-04-13T19:23:08 < antto> very smol snow this winter tho
2020-04-13T19:23:26 < jpa-> we have proper 4 seasons also: cold snow, wet snow, surprise snow, wish-it-was snow
2020-04-13T19:23:41 < antto> is that last one cold rain?
2020-04-13T19:24:15 < jpa-> it's cold and wet, but hard to be sure what it is because you can't see anything in the darkness
2020-04-13T19:24:38 < antto> sounds depressing :/
2020-04-13T19:24:56 < Steffanx> lol
2020-04-13T19:25:09 < jpa-> nah, finland is the world's happiest nation
2020-04-13T19:27:14 < BrainDamage> funland
2020-04-13T19:28:05 < Steffanx> in finland they must have a different definition of happy.
2020-04-13T19:29:30 < antto> i thought mostly dumb people are happy
2020-04-13T19:29:39 < jpa-> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/World_Happiness_Report#2019_report
2020-04-13T19:29:59 < antto> or was it dumb&rich
2020-04-13T19:30:40 < antto> mmm, we're on 97th place
2020-04-13T19:30:41 < antto> noice
2020-04-13T19:31:37 < Steffanx> 0.153 does that mean your generosity is BAD?
2020-04-13T19:32:34 < jpa-> Steffanx: no, it means we keep our own money instead of giving it away!
2020-04-13T19:33:08 < antto> greece has 0.000 there
2020-04-13T19:33:19 < Steffanx> no surprise
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2020-04-13T19:40:42 < kakimir> jpa-: life satisfaction index rather
2020-04-13T19:41:31 < jpa-> kakimir: it's called "world happiness report"
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2020-04-13T20:34:06 < jadew> how do they calculate that?
2020-04-13T20:34:40 < jadew> US is not #1
2020-04-13T20:35:34 < jadew> I have doubts about that table
2020-04-13T20:36:16 < antto> maybe there's an "i don't feel happy" tax
2020-04-13T20:39:30 < jadew> the people of Sudan are almost 4 less happy than the Finnish
2020-04-13T20:39:48 < jadew> no
2020-04-13T20:39:50 < jadew> almost 3
2020-04-13T20:40:01 < jadew> I wonder what's bothering them
2020-04-13T20:40:30 < BrainDamage> there's quite a difference between internal perceived happiness and external perceived happiness
2020-04-13T20:42:07 < BrainDamage> a blatant example would be how a greek perceives the corruption in their own government vs how a german perceives corruption in greek's government
2020-04-13T20:43:30 < jadew> https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/9/92/Village_in_South_Sudan.jpg
2020-04-13T20:43:52 < jadew> I'm gonna guess poor wifi
2020-04-13T20:44:01 < antto> NSFW that sh*t
2020-04-13T20:44:10 < jadew> huh?
2020-04-13T20:44:26 < Steffanx> You're NSFW antto
2020-04-13T20:44:27 < antto> nekkid b00bz there
2020-04-13T20:44:28 < jadew> oh, the boobs
2020-04-13T20:44:48 < jadew> that's a non-sexual image tho
2020-04-13T20:45:05 < antto> how do u know ;P~
2020-04-13T20:45:14 < jadew> I don't feel aroused :P
2020-04-13T20:45:32 < antto> all those sticks that the house is made of do
2020-04-13T20:45:33 < Steffanx> Don tell your wife that.
2020-04-13T20:45:41 < Steffanx> *dont
2020-04-13T20:45:42 < jadew> it's just how they dress I guess
2020-04-13T20:46:39 < antto> some of these houses look slightly better engineerz0r3d than otherz
2020-04-13T20:47:49 < Cracki> antto, how were you able to see boobs? I see human cutout silhouettes
2020-04-13T20:48:01 < antto> ur monit0r sux then
2020-04-13T20:48:09 < Cracki> no I'm just raycis
2020-04-13T20:48:12 < jadew> next country on the list: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Central_African_Republic#/media/File:Living_on_the_rainforest.jpg
2020-04-13T20:48:19 < jadew> https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/0/00/CAR_classroom.jpg
2020-04-13T20:48:19 < Cracki> they live in baskets
2020-04-13T20:48:25 < antto> well then that's wacist
2020-04-13T20:48:51 < jadew> maybe that's just a camp or something
2020-04-13T20:48:55 < jadew> the school has walls
2020-04-13T20:49:07 < Cracki> looking for a fun building project to do with your kids?
2020-04-13T20:49:18 < antto> what is he teaching?
2020-04-13T20:49:19 < Cracki> that stuff fits in a backyard and is safer than a tree house
2020-04-13T20:49:42 < antto> untill it catchez fiah
2020-04-13T20:49:52 < Cracki> oh boy so much shit catching fire
2020-04-13T20:49:56 < Cracki> build with stone, not wood
2020-04-13T20:49:57 < antto> better make it out of teflon sticks
2020-04-13T20:50:07 < Cracki> no, make it a mud hut. mud doesn't burn.
2020-04-13T20:50:20 < Cracki> mud also stores humidity. that's good for your LUNGS
2020-04-13T20:50:30 < Cracki> not too dry, not too wet
2020-04-13T20:50:46 < antto> needs to be BIO organic mud tho
2020-04-13T20:51:26 < Cracki> you can literally use dirt. make a box form, shovel some dirt in, tamp it down, move form up, repeat
2020-04-13T20:54:01 < BrainDamage> afaik they also add straw for integrity
2020-04-13T20:54:17 < Cracki> absolutely. fiber is good for you
2020-04-13T20:54:38 < antto> yes, old houses here have been made from mud+sticks
2020-04-13T20:54:51 < antto> muchos years ago
2020-04-13T20:54:56 < Cracki> but if you don't have straw, but lots of dirt, you can just make half meter thick walls and they'll dry and be almost rock solid
2020-04-13T20:55:26 < antto> eh? would you make a skyscraper with this sh*t tho?
2020-04-13T20:55:46 < antto> ghetto skyscraper
2020-04-13T20:56:05 < jadew> an office building for the tribe?
2020-04-13T20:56:50 < BrainDamage> there's a specific metric for building materials that I forgot the technical name, maybe compressive strength, it's how tall you can pile up a material before it crumbles under its own weight
2020-04-13T20:57:18 < antto> "before it sh*ts teh pants" ;P~
2020-04-13T20:57:55 < jadew> I saw dirt & straw houses in here too
2020-04-13T20:58:24 < jadew> they were regular houses, but with wood reinforcement
2020-04-13T20:58:43 < antto> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mudbrick
2020-04-13T21:00:11 < BrainDamage> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mudbrick#/media/File:Great_Mosque_of_Djenn%C3%A9_3.jpg reminds me a bit of brutalist architecture
2020-04-13T21:00:13 < Cracki> Fachwerk
2020-04-13T21:00:50 < Cracki> wooden beams, panels filled with mud
2020-04-13T21:01:06 < antto> yeah, same here
2020-04-13T21:01:54 < Cracki> rammed earth, that's what I had in mind
2020-04-13T21:02:02 < Cracki> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rammed_earth
2020-04-13T21:02:37 < Cracki> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Timber_framing
2020-04-13T21:03:10 < BrainDamage> some houses here have been made out of tuff
2020-04-13T21:03:31 < BrainDamage> which is kind of dangerous because it contains some radioactive material that decays to radon
2020-04-13T21:06:02 < jadew> so it's both worm and luminescent?
2020-04-13T21:06:04 < jadew> warm
2020-04-13T21:06:42 < Cracki> romans used it for construction https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tuff
2020-04-13T21:06:48 < Cracki> fun
2020-04-13T21:07:05 < Cracki> eh, so long as it glows less than a crate of bananas
2020-04-13T21:07:59 < antto> bananas glow?
2020-04-13T21:08:14 < BrainDamage> yes, they glow in the gamma spectrum
2020-04-13T21:08:17 < BrainDamage> and so do yyou
2020-04-13T21:08:19 < Cracki> https://hps.org/publicinformation/ate/q9574.html
2020-04-13T21:08:24 < antto> are they safe?
2020-04-13T21:08:32 < Cracki> bananas can kill you
2020-04-13T21:08:34 < antto> i just bought a smol banana for my cat yesterday :/
2020-04-13T21:08:44 < Cracki> if you choke on them :>
2020-04-13T21:09:12 < BrainDamage> water can also kill you in sufficient amounts without even choking
2020-04-13T21:09:31 < BrainDamage> thanks for the link
2020-04-13T21:09:36 < antto> too much kek'ing can too, afaik
2020-04-13T21:10:04 < antto> ..that's why you should be worried bout loirens
2020-04-13T21:10:29 < BrainDamage> no, I mean actual people died from water "poisoning"
2020-04-13T21:10:48 < Cracki> what poisoned the water
2020-04-13T21:10:58 < Cracki> and how acutely did they die
2020-04-13T21:11:01 < jadew> is that when you wash out too many salts from your system?
2020-04-13T21:11:08 < BrainDamage> yes
2020-04-13T21:11:18 < BrainDamage> http://www.nbcnews.com/id/16614865/ns/us_news-life/t/woman-dies-after-water-drinking-contest/
2020-04-13T21:11:30 < Cracki> oh nvm, water torture
2020-04-13T21:11:51 < Cracki> "just add salt"
2020-04-13T21:11:55 < BrainDamage> yup
2020-04-13T21:11:58 < BrainDamage> salt and sugar
2020-04-13T21:12:18 < Cracki> chuck bottles of ringer's lactate or something
2020-04-13T21:12:25 < BrainDamage> it's one of the few cases where "it's got electrolythes" is meaningful
2020-04-13T21:12:32 < BrainDamage> when you drink multiple liters at once
2020-04-13T21:13:27 < jadew> that links isn't loading for me
2020-04-13T21:13:37 < jadew> what's the TL;DR? how much did she drink?
2020-04-13T21:14:02 < Cracki> >It was not immediately know how much water Strange consumed.  
2020-04-13T21:14:50 < jadew> pff..
2020-04-13T21:14:58 < Cracki> they were handed quarter liter bottles and hoped that would slow people down
2020-04-13T21:15:08 < BrainDamage> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Water_intoxication
2020-04-13T21:15:28 < Cracki> is it really _in_ _tox_ication
2020-04-13T21:16:10 < BrainDamage> ¯\_( ͡°⌣ ͡°)_/¯ I don't make the names
2020-04-13T21:16:20 < Cracki> ( ͡° ͜ʖ ͡°)
2020-04-13T21:18:04 < Cracki> rat ld50 for an adult human would mean ~12 liters. that'd take a while to drink and "put away"
2020-04-13T21:18:42 < BrainDamage> not being able to go to the bathroom would significantly reduce that value
2020-04-13T21:19:00 < antto> pretty dumb contest
2020-04-13T21:19:13 < BrainDamage> "play stupid games..."
2020-04-13T21:19:38 < Cracki> stomach can keep a few liters, intestines too maybe, bladder half a liter or more, blood vessels could take a bit...
2020-04-13T21:19:44 < Cracki> guess we aren't rats
2020-04-13T21:21:12 < Cracki> one contestant of that nbc article says he surrendered at around 1.25 liters
2020-04-13T21:21:42 < Cracki> because bladder. weren't they allowed to piss or what
2020-04-13T21:22:22 < BrainDamage> the contest was literally titled "hold your wee for a wii"
2020-04-13T21:22:37 < antto> as i said, dumb contest ^
2020-04-13T21:22:49 < antto> i know only 2 games for nintendo wii
2020-04-13T21:23:06 < Cracki> lol
2020-04-13T21:23:07 < boddax> if ever i want die in wine contest ..
2020-04-13T21:23:11 < antto> stupid mario and.. what was the name of that horr0r..
2020-04-13T21:23:13 < antto> lemme find it
2020-04-13T21:23:57 < antto> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T8BcndMxu44
2020-04-13T21:24:04 < Cracki> excited for a free wii https://external-preview.redd.it/OwkixvFitIdIkwltw2JFO9gPgXiOuG8IkfUPe4LPwno.jpg?auto=webp&s=d54dd148a4c069e03aba5c549b29f60947f09ed8
2020-04-13T21:25:12 < Cracki> very ghey
2020-04-13T21:25:16 < boddax> most of them have a beard  thats why
2020-04-13T21:27:41 < boddax> very suprised from this scope ..lots of analyze functions
2020-04-13T21:28:26 < boddax> for the moment look like an alien to me
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2020-04-13T22:45:19 < mawk> 20:09 <BrainDamage> water can also kill you in sufficient amounts without even choking
2020-04-13T22:45:24 < mawk> I went into an argument with someone about that
2020-04-13T22:45:38 < mawk> I was doing so anti-alcohol propaganda and he said "water is toxic too"
2020-04-13T22:45:56 < mawk> my best argument (imo) was that the response/dose curve look nothing like each other
2020-04-13T22:46:04 < mawk> water is extremely safe until a knee point at which it becomes toxic
2020-04-13T22:46:40 < mawk> and also that water is not neurotoxic, hepatotoxic, nephrotoxic, cardiotoxic, ...
2020-04-13T22:46:56 < BrainDamage> I'm not even sure why he was making a comparison
2020-04-13T22:47:11 < mawk> he was saying "one glass of wine a day keeps the doctor away" or something
2020-04-13T22:47:21 < mawk> or something like "you can drink everyday"
2020-04-13T22:50:34 < Steffanx> So hows the COVID-0x13 progressing mawk?
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2020-04-13T22:51:25 < mawk> very good
2020-04-13T22:52:06 < Steffanx> For whom?
2020-04-13T22:52:15 < BrainDamage> team pandemic?
2020-04-13T22:52:15 < Steffanx> *who (??)
2020-04-13T22:53:15 < catphish> who has Covid 0b10011?
2020-04-13T22:53:28 < qyx> how is that thing with old people called, nursing home?
2020-04-13T22:53:32 < mawk> yes
2020-04-13T22:53:46 < mawk> we call that EHPAD in france, we give technocratic acronyms to forget it's a dying home for old people
2020-04-13T22:53:51 < qyx> today they found 47 positive cases in a single one nearby
2020-04-13T22:54:07 < mawk> a very high proportion of cases are in EPHADs in france
2020-04-13T22:54:07 < catphish> yeah we suddenly have that in the UK too :(
2020-04-13T22:54:08 < BrainDamage> yeah, they spread like wildfire in those here as well
2020-04-13T22:54:10 < mawk> falling like flees
2020-04-13T22:54:23 < qyx> BrainDamage: but we have a stedy 20 cases a day
2020-04-13T22:54:27 < qyx> we are not able to find more
2020-04-13T22:54:31 < mawk> for me Steffanx 
2020-04-13T22:54:33 < catphish> i have no idea why the'd be so careless aywhere vulnerable people congregate
2020-04-13T22:54:34 < mawk> dunno catphish 
2020-04-13T22:54:40 < mawk> I had some SyMpToMs a week or so ago
2020-04-13T22:54:52 < catphish> mawk: but you're not worse?
2020-04-13T22:55:11 < mawk> no I'm very good
2020-04-13T22:55:14 < BrainDamage> catphish: out of curiosity, is there any talk about reviewing brexit in view of current coronalinux induced economic depression?
2020-04-13T22:55:16 < catphish> you're probably okay :)
2020-04-13T22:55:25 < qyx> BrainDamage: and then nearly 50 cases in a single nursing home and not even all of them tested so far
2020-04-13T22:55:46 < catphish> BrainDamage: gov.uk have not used the word brexit since covid19 was announced
2020-04-13T22:55:50 < catphish> BrainDamage: we have no idea
2020-04-13T22:55:55 < qyx> haha
2020-04-13T22:56:19 < catphish> https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-52196817
2020-04-13T22:56:29 < BrainDamage> I mean, it was on shaky grounds to begin with, and now it's almost a guaranteed tragedy
2020-04-13T22:56:43 < catphish> Britain's government says an EU-UK trade deal must be in place by the last day of the year. But even if not, the UK won't prolong the transition period beyond that deadline.
2020-04-13T22:57:01 < catphish> so we're double-fucked
2020-04-13T22:57:20 < catphish> negotiating restarting this week apparently 
2020-04-13T23:07:29 < Cracki> you're not fucked. this looks like normal negotiation theatrics
2020-04-13T23:08:41 < Cracki> what fucks you is the genocide perpetrated on your people
2020-04-13T23:09:19 < ohsix> heh
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2020-04-13T23:15:58 < kakinull> recommend a wired remote case
2020-04-13T23:16:01 < englishman> neato, the fuel cell byproducts in the apollo service module were used as drinking water, so when they lost their oxygen supply they also lost their water supply
2020-04-13T23:16:08 < kakinull> with lcd display
2020-04-13T23:16:27 < kakinull> englishman: multideath
2020-04-13T23:16:31 < kakinull> also heat?
2020-04-13T23:16:58 < englishman> yes the batteries restricted power and energy so they couldn't heat
2020-04-13T23:17:09 < englishman> vs. the 2.3kW of each of the three fuel cells
2020-04-13T23:17:27 < catphish> Cracki: who is genociding my people? can i pay them off if i want to live?
2020-04-13T23:17:46 < englishman> they even turned off the IMU heaters to save 64Ah
2020-04-13T23:17:46 < Cracki> you are already paying them off and they won't stop
2020-04-13T23:18:58 < catphish> lame
2020-04-13T23:19:25 < catphish> might as well stop paying then
2020-04-13T23:20:00 < englishman> really tho why do we have to pay tax if the govt can just print more money
2020-04-13T23:22:39 < kakinull> it's not about money
2020-04-13T23:22:45 < kakinull> it's about power
2020-04-13T23:24:03 < aandrew> englishman: yeah I love reading about this stuff, the solutions were novel and very well thought out
2020-04-13T23:24:31 < aandrew> something to be said for bureaucracy when they can trace every single fucking bolt and washer and the amount of duct tape they had in the capsule
2020-04-13T23:26:19 < kakinull> buy a jet airliner and get matching weight of paperwork with it
2020-04-13T23:26:50 < kakinull> all the manufacturing documentation of an airliner weights as much as the plane does - if printed
2020-04-13T23:29:28 < Cracki> how many football fields of rainforest is that
2020-04-13T23:31:53 < kakinull> rainforest doesn't make copy paper
2020-04-13T23:32:04 < kakinull> it needs harder fiber
2020-04-13T23:32:10 < kakinull> idk.
2020-04-13T23:33:01 < kakinull> maybe
2020-04-13T23:34:19 < kakinull> *fine paper
2020-04-13T23:34:24 < Cracki> :)
2020-04-13T23:35:18 < Cracki> ecoterrorists believe that nothing new grows, that everything we consume has to be taken away from nature
2020-04-13T23:36:01 < Cracki> trees are planted and harvested like any other crop. that does take space, but only once. only growing demand requires more space.
2020-04-13T23:36:50 < catphish> ordered new tyres https://www.schwalbe.com/en/tour-reader/schwalbe-g-one-allround
2020-04-13T23:37:04 < catphish> hopefully they'll be a bit tougher than the stock ones
2020-04-13T23:37:24 < Cracki> sounds teutonic
2020-04-13T23:37:47 < Cracki> the price may be hard to... swallow
2020-04-13T23:37:50 < kakinull> Cracki: they burn the forrest though
2020-04-13T23:38:10 < Cracki> eh, plants love to breathe carbon
2020-04-13T23:38:30 < kakinull> sure
2020-04-13T23:38:39 < kakinull> there is enough carbon though
2020-04-13T23:39:19 < Cracki> do you like air? would you like 21% oxygen, or 8% oxygen? 8% is enough
2020-04-13T23:47:39 < emeb> Raycaster on STM32G431 & ST7789 LCD -> https://www.dropbox.com/s/jn2k39c82gzxhp7/MOV_0006.MP4?dl=0
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2020-04-13T23:48:48 < Cracki> cute
2020-04-13T23:48:58 < zyp> hmm
2020-04-13T23:48:59 < Cracki> those are some fine textures
2020-04-13T23:49:22 < emeb> Made them myself from pix I took + gimp tiling.
2020-04-13T23:49:34 < emeb> except for that green xor pattern of course.
2020-04-13T23:49:38 < zyp> I was thinking about putting a dip switch on this pmod thing, turns out they are a lot larger than I expected
2020-04-13T23:49:55 < zyp> or rather, the «plenty of space» I had is smaller than I thought
2020-04-13T23:50:49 < zyp> I have a square a bit less than 8x9mm
2020-04-13T23:51:31 < qyx> the smd ones don't fit?
2020-04-13T23:51:35 < emeb> you can get super tiny ones
2020-04-13T23:51:36 < zyp> a small 4-pole dip switch needs like 9x12mm
2020-04-13T23:51:43 < emeb> but you need a needle to work them
2020-04-13T23:51:55 < qyx> wait, what
2020-04-13T23:52:08 < zyp> I mean, the ones I'm looking at do
2020-04-13T23:52:37 < zyp> gonna look at smaller ones
2020-04-13T23:53:21 < qyx> hm yeah 9x12
2020-04-13T23:53:34 < qyx> are those
2020-04-13T23:53:36 < qyx> meant I
2020-04-13T23:53:45 < zyp> okay, found some smaller ones
2020-04-13T23:54:17 < zyp> should fit in 5.5x6.5 or so
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2020-04-14T00:22:55 < zyp> https://bin.jvnv.net/file/o42O8.png
2020-04-14T00:23:46 < qyx> meh tagconnect
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2020-04-14T00:24:05 < zyp> https://bin.jvnv.net/file/bYYnY.png
2020-04-14T00:24:07 < zyp> heh
2020-04-14T00:24:32 < zyp> this is the first time I've thought «fuck, this tagconnect footprint is huge, hard to fit» :)
2020-04-14T00:24:34 < qyx> have you seen https://github.com/SimonMerrett/SOICbite
2020-04-14T00:24:52 < zyp> vias are also huge
2020-04-14T00:25:23 < qyx> this thing has 4 pads with 1.27mm pitch
2020-04-14T00:25:31 < qyx> from both sides
2020-04-14T00:25:35 < zyp> nice
2020-04-14T00:25:39 < qyx> actually quite neat idea
2020-04-14T00:30:39 < Steffanx>  Looks terrible to align for some production-ish tool
2020-04-14T00:30:42 < Steffanx> Imho
2020-04-14T00:32:11 < qyx> tagconnect too
2020-04-14T00:33:02 < catphish> is this a zyp signature move, or does everyone do it?
2020-04-14T00:33:03 < catphish> https://i.imgur.com/kQV7j2o.png
2020-04-14T00:33:13 < catphish> i've seen it in every zyp layout i've looked at :)
2020-04-14T00:33:15 < Steffanx> Not sure. The pins/holes are hard to miss
2020-04-14T00:33:19 < englishman> haha qyx thats great
2020-04-14T00:33:46 < karlp> 3heh, kicad's diff pair router refuses to break out ot the sot-23-6 pads :)
2020-04-14T00:34:04 < qyx> really?
2020-04-14T00:35:06 < catphish> it would be handy if kicad would tell you the length of a track do you can match them manually
2020-04-14T00:35:17 < zyp> https://bin.jvnv.net/file/dpJI6.png <- schematic is kinda packed too
2020-04-14T00:35:33 < zyp> still need to find values for R5/R6
2020-04-14T00:36:03 < zyp> tempted to do 75k/15k since I already got those in the design
2020-04-14T00:36:16 < qyx> catphish: it does
2020-04-14T00:36:24 < qyx> there is a pair match tool
2020-04-14T00:36:30 < qyx> it measures the distance
2020-04-14T00:36:37 < zyp> but with 3.3V vref, that'll saturate the ADC at 19.8V VBUS, assuming it's even accurate
2020-04-14T00:36:41 < qyx> and you can either do meanders or sort that out yourself
2020-04-14T00:36:41 < catphish> qyx: cool, i'll look for it
2020-04-14T00:37:17 < qyx> route > tune diff pair skew
2020-04-14T00:37:30 < catphish> ah yes, just found it, cool! thank
2020-04-14T00:37:32 < zyp> how was the math for ADC input impedance again?
2020-04-14T00:37:34 < qyx> not quite intuitive though, you have to experiment a bit
2020-04-14T00:37:54 < qyx> add a 100n parallel cap and yolo
2020-04-14T00:38:01 < zyp> yeah, I considered that
2020-04-14T00:38:30 < zyp> how fast would it settle if I do?
2020-04-14T00:38:30 < qyx> just compute your r/c to not measure bs
2020-04-14T00:39:11 < qyx> for vbus sense?
2020-04-14T00:39:20 < zyp> yes
2020-04-14T00:39:39 < catphish> qyx: nice! that fixes is automagically
2020-04-14T00:40:29 < qyx> https://www.digikey.com/en/resources/conversion-calculators/conversion-calculator-time-constant
2020-04-14T00:40:32 < qyx> nice tool
2020-04-14T00:40:52 < qyx> 10k/100nF is nearly 100% atfter 6xRC
2020-04-14T00:40:57 < qyx> RC is 1ms in this case
2020-04-14T00:41:34 < zyp> that doesn't account for the 15k in parallel with the cap
2020-04-14T00:42:06 < qyx> idk how to calculate impedance of a divider
2020-04-14T00:42:09 < karlp> just won't even consider it: https://bin.jvnv.net/file/6xtE6.png
2020-04-14T00:42:50 < zyp> just diff route it to the connector and manually route stubs to connect the protection shit afterwards
2020-04-14T00:43:13 < zyp> or stop where you are and manually route from there
2020-04-14T00:43:38 < karlp> yeah, it's "solvable" just lame
2020-04-14T00:43:45 < karlp> and you're not meant to do stubs :)
2020-04-14T00:43:54 < zyp> that's what I usually do with diff pairs in altium
2020-04-14T00:44:05 < zyp> manually doing the last part, I mean
2020-04-14T00:44:26 < zyp> qyx, anyway, it's milliseconds, so it should work
2020-04-14T00:44:27 < karlp> I tried routing through both the pairs, which would double the capacitance (who cares!) but it didn't like that either
2020-04-14T00:44:42 < qyx> zyp: yes I wrote that :P
2020-04-14T00:45:07 < zyp> qyx, yeah, I'm concluding from what you wrote
2020-04-14T00:45:54 < catphish> qyx: it's a work of art https://i.imgur.com/N2qoaxw.png
2020-04-14T00:46:28 < qyx> uh oh
2020-04-14T00:47:02 < qyx> I would go with the pair around R7/R8 pads
2020-04-14T00:47:10 < qyx> and approach the pads from the back
2020-04-14T00:47:35 < catphish> qyx: oh yeah, dunno why i didn't do that
2020-04-14T00:47:40 < qyx> around R5
2020-04-14T00:47:49 < qyx> the pair would be symmetric in that case
2020-04-14T00:48:52 < qyx> also I would push RXP/RXM pai more to the left to increase distance from the TXP/TXN pair if theres some free space
2020-04-14T00:49:11 < karlp> why are they Rn at all?
2020-04-14T00:50:43 < qyx> for the TXP meander, you should do it at a place where the difference occurs
2020-04-14T00:51:02 < qyx> to not disrupt the phase along the pair
2020-04-14T00:51:20 < qyx> *skew, not phase
2020-04-14T00:51:50 < qyx> in this case, more close to the R1 pad
2020-04-14T00:52:54 < karlp> whose idea was esd protection again....
2020-04-14T00:54:34 < Steffanx> Yeah who came up with those discharges?
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2020-04-14T00:59:16 < englishman> "can you imagine if this happened on apollo 8" "we'd probably be flying apollo 9 about now"
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2020-04-14T01:02:28 < catphish> qyx: around R5 was too far, but still a great improvement https://i.imgur.com/XgyeWAi.png
2020-04-14T01:04:28 < catphish> thanks!
2020-04-14T01:05:04 < qyx> thats how I meant it
2020-04-14T01:05:24 < catphish> ah okay :)
2020-04-14T01:05:37 < catphish> the meander is quite small now anyway
2020-04-14T01:05:54 < catphish> perhaps i should have put it further south
2020-04-14T01:05:58 < catphish> but i'm happy
2020-04-14T01:07:06 < qyx> separate TX and RX pairs with some clearance
2020-04-14T01:07:33 < catphish> that's not a bad idea
2020-04-14T01:08:30 < qyx> do you have copper pour on the front layer?
2020-04-14T01:08:51 < catphish> no
2020-04-14T01:09:13 < catphish> i could
2020-04-14T01:11:49 < qyx> thats a nice example of diff routing https://i.imgur.com/FsjT4C7.png
2020-04-14T01:12:02 < qyx> even better https://i.stack.imgur.com/P0aIa.jpg
2020-04-14T01:14:59 < catphish> ooo pretty
2020-04-14T01:15:06 < zyp> I've only got a pour on the bottom of this board, doesn't look too bad: https://bin.jvnv.net/file/bNsJP.png
2020-04-14T01:15:37 < zyp> lots of holes in it, but nothing super bad, and it's not like it's gonna matter anyway
2020-04-14T01:16:02 < zyp> FS USB is 12 MHz, PD comms is 300 kHz
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2020-04-14T01:17:24 < zyp> https://bin.jvnv.net/file/3b50p.png <- also, top layer is too dense for a pour to have any benefit
2020-04-14T01:18:02 < rajkosto> is that a broken trace
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2020-04-14T01:21:22 < machinehum> Why does the top diff go around the right of the hole rather than straight up
2020-04-14T01:21:34 < machinehum> Both traces would remain the same length
2020-04-14T01:23:22 < Cracki> polarity mebbeh
2020-04-14T01:25:18 < Cracki> he could go over the leftmost hole but that little 8-leggy is in the way
2020-04-14T01:26:33 < machinehum> Oh
2020-04-14T01:26:44 < machinehum> Also you would need to cross the traces
2020-04-14T01:32:59 < zyp> https://bin.jvnv.net/file/QbAxH.png
2020-04-14T01:33:21 < kakigate> what is happening zyp
2020-04-14T01:33:51 < qyx> I like that
2020-04-14T01:33:59 < qyx> something like a self-documenting code
2020-04-14T01:34:17 < kakigate> what is this primitive tech you are showing?
2020-04-14T01:34:39 < qyx> no sma?
2020-04-14T01:34:52 < zyp> it's not primitive, it got a fucking wlcsp
2020-04-14T01:35:07 < kakigate> really?
2020-04-14T01:35:25 < kakigate> :o
2020-04-14T01:37:06 < zyp> yup
2020-04-14T01:37:07 < zyp> https://bin.jvnv.net/file/ut1HQ.png
2020-04-14T01:37:22 < zyp> for scale; the passives are 0402
2020-04-14T01:37:30 < qyx> re: esd, routing SWd to the backplane, is a ~1k resistor sufficient or should I put a bulky TVS there
2020-04-14T01:37:35 < zyp> the big caps are 0805
2020-04-14T01:38:03 < qyx> whats in the wlcsp
2020-04-14T01:38:18 < zyp> http://www.ti.com/lit/ds/symlink/tps66020.pdf
2020-04-14T01:40:09 < zyp> it seems a perfect companion to stm32g0 for power management
2020-04-14T01:40:45 < qyx> ok fuk SWD ESD protection, the only purpose of having SWD on the backplane connector is to have it accessible from the back of the backplane
2020-04-14T01:41:02 < qyx> so it is not going across the whole backplane
2020-04-14T01:44:05 < catphish> qyx: more of the same https://i.imgur.com/Th4bkHL.png :)
2020-04-14T01:44:24 < catphish> i flooded it, because why not
2020-04-14T01:45:13 < qyx> then add via stitching
2020-04-14T01:45:52 < catphish> wonder if kicad can automate it
2020-04-14T01:45:59 < qyx> https://www.altium.com/documentation/sites/default/files/wiki_attachments/296881/ViaStitchingInArea_AD18_0_static.png
2020-04-14T01:46:02 < qyx> kaki style board
2020-04-14T01:46:27 < catphish> jebus
2020-04-14T01:50:46 < kakigate> is that some gerber editor?
2020-04-14T01:51:08 < kakigate> catphish: nope
2020-04-14T01:51:22 < kakigate> just chain ground with vias
2020-04-14T01:51:43 < kakigate> and if you load netlist be careful with those checkboxes
2020-04-14T01:51:57 < kakigate> some of them might erase your stiching
2020-04-14T01:54:28 < qyx> load netlist?
2020-04-14T01:55:39 < qyx> I am not touching any checkboxes, just press F8 and ok
2020-04-14T02:02:07 < kakigate> what does it?
2020-04-14T02:02:25 < kakigate> update it must?
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2020-04-14T02:14:04 < machinehum> ni shit is so fucking dumb
2020-04-14T02:16:01 < qyx> which one
2020-04-14T02:16:08 < qyx> LV?
2020-04-14T02:16:23 < kakigate> zyp: what is usb-c for?
2020-04-14T02:16:33 < zyp> what is what for?
2020-04-14T02:16:40 < kakigate> any special tricks with usb-c?
2020-04-14T02:16:45 < kakigate> or just the connector?
2020-04-14T02:17:04 < zyp> this board? power tricks, mostly
2020-04-14T02:17:06 < kakigate> in the context of your projec
2020-04-14T02:17:11 < kakigate> power for what?
2020-04-14T02:17:24 < zyp> it can do USB power delivery comms
2020-04-14T02:17:34 < kakigate> okay
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2020-04-14T02:17:43 < kakigate> is there another device to be connected to this?
2020-04-14T02:17:49 < kakigate> that is the load?
2020-04-14T02:18:15 < kakigate> is this one of those usb pd interfaces where you connect with usb-c and get power out for your circuit?
2020-04-14T02:19:03 < zyp> well, the power switch can only do 5V on the source side, but the sink side can do up to 20V
2020-04-14T02:19:17 < zyp> so I can connect a PD supply and ask it for other voltages
2020-04-14T02:20:03 < kakigate> sink side sounds unconvinient
2020-04-14T02:20:07 < zyp> but yeah, it can be used for sourcing as well if you provide the VBUS voltage directly to the header
2020-04-14T02:20:29 < zyp> why? sinking is a lot more interesting IMO
2020-04-14T02:20:40 < kakigate> interfacing with your board
2020-04-14T02:20:56 < kakigate> inter-board interfacing
2020-04-14T02:21:00 < zyp> I'm not sure what you mean
2020-04-14T02:21:26 < kakigate> it's a low side power switch right?
2020-04-14T02:21:45 < zyp> uh, what?
2020-04-14T02:21:48 < kakigate> that sinking thing
2020-04-14T02:21:54 < kakigate> oh wait
2020-04-14T02:21:57 < zyp> no.
2020-04-14T02:22:00 < kakigate> it's the direction
2020-04-14T02:22:04 < zyp> yes
2020-04-14T02:22:16 < kakigate> sweet
2020-04-14T02:22:19 < kakigate> BOM cost?
2020-04-14T02:22:33 < kakigate> approx
2020-04-14T02:22:49 < zyp> the point is, I can plug in a standard PD power supply and e.g. ask it for 12V
2020-04-14T02:23:02 < zyp> no need for any barrel jacks anymore
2020-04-14T02:23:14 < machinehum> LV is stupid, so I found a python lib to talk to the daq, but ths shit only works with Windows
2020-04-14T02:23:14 < qyx> is a standard PD PSU able to gove you anything you ask?
2020-04-14T02:23:21 < zyp> part of why I'm making this is to try out stuff that I might use in a larger project later
2020-04-14T02:23:35 < qyx> machinehum: wchich daq are you using?
2020-04-14T02:23:40 < zyp> qyx, I'm not sure, I think there's some that does and some that doesn't
2020-04-14T02:23:41 < qyx> it doesn't matter though
2020-04-14T02:23:48 < machinehum> cDAQ-9178
2020-04-14T02:23:56 < qyx> isnt it ethernet?
2020-04-14T02:23:59 < kakigate> qyx: only standard mandatory voltage is 5V iirc
2020-04-14T02:24:13 < zyp> qyx, I believe some might only give you some standard steps; 5, 9, 12, 15, 20
2020-04-14T02:24:17 < machinehum> Nah it's usb
2020-04-14T02:24:49 < qyx> meh this one is usb
2020-04-14T02:24:53 < zyp> there's a ton of cheap 18W PD supplies, I suspect they only do 5V3A, 9V2A and 12V1.5A
2020-04-14T02:24:55 < machinehum> https://github.com/ni/nidaqmx-python
2020-04-14T02:24:56 < kakigate> zyp: does the chip have pd negotiation?
2020-04-14T02:25:08 < kakigate> stm32
2020-04-14T02:25:17 < kakigate> or some ready made codez
2020-04-14T02:25:32 < zyp> stm32g072 has the UCPD peripheral that can send and receive PD messages
2020-04-14T02:25:37 < zyp> and the rest is firmware
2020-04-14T02:25:49 < qyx> machinehum: iirc ni had some C sdk for their stuff
2020-04-14T02:25:55 < qyx> but windows only too
2020-04-14T02:26:02 < machinehum> tragic
2020-04-14T02:26:26 < kakigate> zyp: how about usb bc1.3?
2020-04-14T02:26:40 < qyx> machinehum: do you have to use NI daq?
2020-04-14T02:26:45 < qyx> or you just happen to have one
2020-04-14T02:26:55 < machinehum> That's the one they gave me so yeah
2020-04-14T02:27:03 < qyx> nah
2020-04-14T02:27:24 < machinehum> Normally I would have bought a labjack, saved thousand and not use some balls windows thing
2020-04-14T02:28:19 < qyx> but but thats how pros work
2020-04-14T02:29:01 < machinehum> dats how lil box dragger button clickers work
2020-04-14T02:29:33 < machinehum> I'm just sitting here salty
2020-04-14T02:30:19 < aandrew> jadew: I just learned “tu-dem gutzi muti” hahaha
2020-04-14T02:30:35 < qyx> lol we called them the same, box draggers
2020-04-14T02:30:56 < aandrew> No fu-tsu I guess? Hard to spell romanian
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2020-04-14T02:34:28 < aandrew> Ok jadew Help me out what is “suck your fathers dick” in Romanian? My wife refuses to tell me
2020-04-14T02:38:47 < antto> wtf's going on here
2020-04-14T02:39:11 < kakigate> f'ing around ofc
2020-04-14T02:39:24 < kakigate> steff is sleeping
2020-04-14T02:39:42 < kakigate> or is he..
2020-04-14T02:40:09 < Laurenceb> trolls trollin trolls i here
2020-04-14T02:42:15 < qyx> Laurenceb: did you do anything with those iepe accelerometers you bought?
2020-04-14T02:42:42 < antto> accelerated them towards teh garbage?
2020-04-14T02:43:12 < englishman> zyp: have you looked at the st pd library yet?
2020-04-14T02:43:49 < Laurenceb> qyx: nope
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2020-04-14T02:45:45 < antto> bluh.. i think i should more actively avoid snacks and other foods with this stupid E621 sh*t enhanc0r
2020-04-14T02:47:38 < zyp> englishman, no, I'm assuming it won't be too much work to roll my own
2020-04-14T02:48:09 < englishman> oh
2020-04-14T02:48:20 < englishman> maybe there are some opensores?
2020-04-14T02:48:30 < englishman> pd is a little more complex than trivial
2020-04-14T02:48:41 < englishman> I ended up using a fire and forget chip
2020-04-14T02:48:47 < englishman> instead of spending a lot of time on that
2020-04-14T02:49:09 < englishman> I'm sure you can do it of course
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2020-04-14T02:52:00 < kakigate> it's a weekend project for zyp
2020-04-14T02:52:08 < kakigate> literally 2evenings
2020-04-14T02:52:11 < kakigate> or 3
2020-04-14T02:52:28 < kakigate> and the code is absolutelly mint
2020-04-14T02:54:00 < qyx> are you drunk?
2020-04-14T02:54:34 < mawk> eval $(python3 -c 'import sys, shlex; before={*open(sys.argv[1]).read().strip().split("\n")}; after={*open(sys.argv[2]).read().strip().split("\n")}; add = after - before; remove = before - after; print("remove=({})".format(" ".join(map(shlex.quote, remove))), "add=({})".format(" ".join(map(shlex.quote, add))), sep=";")' <(ipset list -o save web-allowed | tail -n+2 | cut -d' ' -f3) <(curl -s
2020-04-14T02:54:36 < mawk> https://www.cloudflare.com/ips-v4))
2020-04-14T02:54:49 < mawk> pyfrankenbash
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2020-04-14T02:57:13 < machinehum> lol
2020-04-14T02:57:33 < qyx> what does it do
2020-04-14T02:57:40 < qyx> adds new ips to an ipset?
2020-04-14T02:57:46 < mawk> yes, and clear the old ones
2020-04-14T02:58:00 < mawk> well it just sets two bash arrays "remove" and "add" to do it later
2020-04-14T02:58:16 < qyx> what about using a diff?
2020-04-14T02:58:24 < mawk> hmm
2020-04-14T02:58:26 < mawk> why not
2020-04-14T02:58:28 < mawk> good idea
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2020-04-14T02:59:02 < zyp> englishman, I haven't looked to deeply into it, but I kinda assume that PD is easier than USB itself
2020-04-14T03:00:18 < mawk> shlex is a good trick to set variables in bash from python
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2020-04-14T03:05:39 < zyp> gotta love altium: https://bin.jvnv.net/file/bOOQ9.png
2020-04-14T03:06:18 < zyp> when my design crashes the DRC, is that a sign it's awful?
2020-04-14T03:06:45 < ds2> it is a sign the DRC checker sucks 
2020-04-14T03:07:02 < zyp> let's try restarting altium and see
2020-04-14T03:07:24 < zyp> here we go, just 409 violations
2020-04-14T03:08:12 < ds2> did altium trash your design when it crashed? 
2020-04-14T03:08:34 < zyp> no, it didn't even crash the editor, just the DRC
2020-04-14T03:10:31 < zyp> okay, all violations was just silk/mask bullshit
2020-04-14T03:14:04 < ds2> did you enable too many layers? I know eagle flags those if you enable too many layers (enable == make visible in this context)
2020-04-14T03:14:31 < zyp> no, just unreasonable defaults
2020-04-14T03:22:17 < qyx> 0 errors and 3 unconnected
2020-04-14T03:23:21 < ds2> PD as in USB-C PD?
2020-04-14T03:23:39 < ds2> <-- up to eyeballs in that stuff :(
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2020-04-14T03:25:11 < zyp> yes
2020-04-14T03:32:29 < ds2> unless all you want is 5V, it is a PITA
2020-04-14T03:32:36 < mawk> qyx: https://paste.serveur.io/GThrThSk.sh
2020-04-14T03:32:47 < zyp> ds2, how so?
2020-04-14T03:32:59 < ds2> there is a serial protocol to negotiate it
2020-04-14T03:33:22 < zyp> well, duh
2020-04-14T03:33:24 < ds2> and you have to handle orientation muxing
2020-04-14T03:33:37 < ds2> simple would be a pull up
2020-04-14T03:33:44 < zyp> pulldown
2020-04-14T03:33:51 < zyp> sources pull up, sinks pull down
2020-04-14T03:34:08 < ds2> are you pulling power or supplying power
2020-04-14T03:34:27 < zyp> this thing can do both
2020-04-14T03:34:34 < ds2> the PD stuff negotiate more then just power
2020-04-14T03:34:44 < ds2> u got a twinkie?
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2020-04-14T03:35:34 < ds2> that seems to be the only tool to debug PD
2020-04-14T03:37:18 < zyp> https://bin.jvnv.net/file/SN6p1/PMOD_USBC_FS_G0.pdf
2020-04-14T03:39:16 < ds2> no USB3 or Alt mode support?
2020-04-14T03:39:20 < zyp> no
2020-04-14T03:39:27 < ds2> that does simply it a bit
2020-04-14T03:40:11 < zyp> it's out of scope for this design
2020-04-14T03:40:21 < ds2> is it just 5V only?
2020-04-14T03:40:42 < zyp> no, it can sink up to 20V
2020-04-14T03:40:48 < zyp> or source 5V
2020-04-14T03:40:56 < ds2> ah
2020-04-14T03:41:14 < ds2> sink up to but is it asking for >5V?
2020-04-14T03:41:33 < zyp> that depends on the firmware that I haven't written yet :)
2020-04-14T03:41:41 < ds2> Oh hehe
2020-04-14T03:42:34 < ds2> I am finding real devices don't play nice... the board I have needs >7V but I need alt mode but the device that supports the alt mode and pass through wants 5V and....
2020-04-14T03:43:27 < zyp> I mean, this is a PMOD, to plug into FPGA boards, so part of the point is that I want a simple way to add USB ports to an FPGA
2020-04-14T03:43:46 < ds2> ah
2020-04-14T03:43:49 < zyp> and part of the point is that I'd like to do some experiments with PD
2020-04-14T03:43:57 < zyp> and test some actual parts
2020-04-14T03:44:40 < ds2> how do you plan to debug it?
2020-04-14T03:45:00 < zyp> it what? the BMC messages?
2020-04-14T03:45:18 < ds2> the messages on the CC lines
2020-04-14T03:46:29 < zyp> if need be, with an LA, otherwise I hope it's enough to log sent and received messages on the MCU
2020-04-14T03:47:23 < ds2> is there decodes for common LA? Not a fan but i seem to stuck with a twinkie but I don't have access to the MCU in my case
2020-04-14T03:47:45 < zyp> sigrok seems to have one, but I haven't tried it or looked in detail
2020-04-14T03:48:23 < zyp> what are you using for the PD comms?
2020-04-14T03:49:27 < ds2> a TI chip...TPS something 687...let me look
2020-04-14T03:49:56 < ds2> 65987d
2020-04-14T03:50:06 < ds2> paired with a mux
2020-04-14T03:50:19 < zyp> ah, looked at that yesterday
2020-04-14T03:50:26 < ds2> and there like 23492410429384092384092348092384092840 options this to negotiate the 234018234023948209348092348902384 options available :)
2020-04-14T03:52:22 < zyp> that's a stand-alone controller though, which I assume means that you don't deal with the PD messages, you just tell it what to do?
2020-04-14T03:53:30 < zyp> there's also simpler stuff like the TUSB422 that only sends and receives the messages you give it
2020-04-14T03:53:57 < zyp> and then stuff like the stm32g0 that I'm using that contains a peripheral for sending and receiving messages
2020-04-14T04:02:29 < catphish> does "sink 20v" actually mean block 20v? i assume if you're sinking there's esssentially no volts
2020-04-14T04:02:48 < zyp> no
2020-04-14T04:03:01 < Laurenceb> at one point I was going to put USB power delivery on babbyshake
2020-04-14T04:03:06 < Laurenceb> but managers said no...
2020-04-14T04:03:13 < zyp> in this context, a power provider is called a source and a power consumer is called a sink
2020-04-14T04:03:19 < Laurenceb> so it was stuck with glitchy 5v
2020-04-14T04:03:32 < catphish> oh sink means consume here?
2020-04-14T04:03:50 < catphish> ah i see what you're talking about :)
2020-04-14T04:04:02 < catphish> PD magic
2020-04-14T04:04:12 < zyp> well, yes, this board itself won't consume it
2020-04-14T04:04:31 < zyp> but it can ask for 20V from a PD supply and output it on a header
2020-04-14T04:04:47 < catphish> cool
2020-04-14T04:04:56 < zyp> or it can take 5V from a header and provide it to connected USB devices
2020-04-14T04:05:15 < Laurenceb> sounds like what was wanted for babbyshake
2020-04-14T04:05:17 < catphish> i do love PD, and also the fact that it never seems to go wrong and explode stuff
2020-04-14T04:05:42 < Laurenceb> famous last words
2020-04-14T04:05:45 < zyp> heh
2020-04-14T04:07:09 < zyp> what I like is that you can take a standard off the shelf power supply and plug it into your stuff and it'll negotiate what it wants and just work
2020-04-14T04:07:57 < zyp> so if I make something that needs 12V, I just configure it to ask for 12V, rather than having to find the right kind of barrel jack adapter
2020-04-14T04:08:39 < zyp> and if it's connected to a source that doesn't provide 12V, you can fall back to run at 5V with reduced functionality or whatever
2020-04-14T04:08:58 < Laurenceb> yeah that was my plan for babbyshake
2020-04-14T04:09:19 < Laurenceb> a ton of hubs and sound hardware was stretching 5v to the limit
2020-04-14T04:09:53 < zyp> https://bin.jvnv.net/file/CbQe0.jpg <- my macbook can run/charge from a plain 5V USB charger without PD
2020-04-14T04:10:13 < zyp> it just won't charge very fast, or at all if the CPU is too active :)
2020-04-14T04:11:01 < Laurenceb> shows how badly usb hubs suck
2020-04-14T04:15:04 < dongs> zyp, re your email you know shipping to norway is bant right
2020-04-14T04:15:10 < dongs> from jp
2020-04-14T04:15:27 < dongs> https://www.post.japanpost.jp/int/information/2020/0409_01_01_en.pdf
2020-04-14T04:16:05 < catphish> software configured power supply seems like the answer to so many problems
2020-04-14T04:16:43 < karlp> just more software :)
2020-04-14T04:17:42 < catphish> i guess it's a pain to boot at 5v then reconfigure things
2020-04-14T04:17:47 < Laurenceb> the answer to babbyshake
2020-04-14T04:18:03 < Laurenceb> when you need a bazillion usb sensors in a wambulance because reasons
2020-04-14T04:19:14 < zyp> dongs, that's not gonna last forever
2020-04-14T04:19:31 < zyp> and I'm not in a hurry
2020-04-14T04:20:16 < BrainDamage> software defined power supply
2020-04-14T04:21:07 < dongs> okey, right
2020-04-14T04:21:59 < zyp> I guess problem is almost no planes are flying, so they don't have anything to carry the mail
2020-04-14T04:22:08 < dongs> yes
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2020-04-14T04:22:24 < dongs> apparently air canada is taking out seats from 777s and turning them into straight up cargo planes
2020-04-14T04:22:29 < dongs> more places should do this
2020-04-14T04:22:34 < dongs> instead of flying empty or not flying
2020-04-14T04:22:47 < catphish> flying empty is retarded
2020-04-14T04:23:22 < zyp> close to empty, more like
2020-04-14T04:24:28 < dongs> zyp was the only passenger on his flight
2020-04-14T04:24:56 < zyp> nah
2020-04-14T04:27:33 < zyp> hmm, norway post doesn't send to japan either
2020-04-14T04:28:17 < Laurenceb> https://forum.nasaspaceflight.com/assets/48895.0/1625780.jpg
2020-04-14T04:28:26 < Laurenceb> Musk waifu on suicide watch
2020-04-14T04:36:50 < zyp> dongs, is it only the shipping to norway that's a problem, you can still get it made?
2020-04-14T04:37:25 < ds2> zyp: yes but there is a SPI ROM that needs to be programmed
2020-04-14T04:37:40 < zyp> fun
2020-04-14T04:37:51 < ds2> that SPI ROM is the reason for the 24321234123423423 options
2020-04-14T04:38:38 < ds2> these are the times when it is nice to have a PCB mill and a reflow oven :D
2020-04-14T04:43:19 < aandrew> another day, another agency cold call
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2020-04-14T04:47:28 < upgrdman> does gcc (for c) have any way to force saturating math? (i think that's the right phrase...) for example: "uint32_t i = 35; i -= 100;" i want i to stop at 0, and not underflow/overflow like it normally does.
2020-04-14T04:47:54 < upgrdman> i know i can write a function/macro to do it, but not sure if there's an easier way?
2020-04-14T04:50:25 < zyp> write a function/macro in such a way that gcc will recognize it and emit a saturating instruction
2020-04-14T04:57:30 < upgrdman> k
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2020-04-14T05:07:14 < emeb_mac> why not just use the intrinsics?
2020-04-14T05:08:04 < emeb_mac> x = __SSAT(y, <bits>)
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2020-04-14T05:43:16 < englishman> zyp are you just making a barrel jack replacement?
2020-04-14T06:37:32 < englishman> https://i.imgur.com/ABii3DD.jpg
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2020-04-14T06:59:36 < jadew> man... youtube picks up so fast when you lose interest in something
2020-04-14T06:59:57 < aandrew> jadew: help me out man
2020-04-14T07:00:06 < jadew> with?
2020-04-14T07:00:16 < aandrew> what's the correct way to say "suck your father's dick" in a true romanian curse/insult
2020-04-14T07:00:45 < jadew> that's an awkward insult
2020-04-14T07:00:57 < jadew> suck my cock would sound better
2020-04-14T07:01:04 < aandrew> I mean I successfully conjugatd the male form of "tu-dem pisda muti" which caused my wife to blush and check the restaurant to see if any romanians heard
2020-04-14T07:01:20 < aandrew> apparently "suck my (your?) father's cock" is worse though
2020-04-14T07:01:50 < jadew> manca-mi-ai pula
2020-04-14T07:02:10 < jadew> that's for "mine"
2020-04-14T07:02:11 < aandrew> tu-den gutzi muti is apparently pretty good too
2020-04-14T07:02:32 -!- [7] [~quassel@rockbox/developer/TheSeven] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds]
2020-04-14T07:02:48 < jadew> it's ok... it's about your mom's throat and you going there :P
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2020-04-14T07:03:44 < jadew> "baga-mi-as pula-n mata" - fuck your mom, but very rough
2020-04-14T07:04:34 < aandrew> heh
2020-04-14T07:06:14 -!- fenugrec [~fenugrec@97.107.220.18] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds]
2020-04-14T07:06:24 < jadew> "caca-m-as in gura matii de prost" - great for traffic jams
2020-04-14T07:06:56 < jadew> *ma-tii
2020-04-14T07:07:07 < aandrew> that sounds like just too much to say when stressed
2020-04-14T07:07:22 < jadew> it's full of relief words
2020-04-14T07:08:06 < aandrew> "de prost" is osmething I hear my wfie say when pissed a lot
2020-04-14T07:08:07 < jadew> it loosely translates to "I'd shit in your mom's mouth, you stupid shit"
2020-04-14T07:08:18 < aandrew> my absolute favourite is when she's pissed with one of hte kids
2020-04-14T07:08:20 < jadew> it means stupid
2020-04-14T07:08:25 < aandrew> "mama tati plode!"
2020-04-14T07:08:46 < aandrew> I always think it's "mama's gonna explode" because it makes so much sense
2020-04-14T07:08:56 < aandrew> tade? no idea how to spell
2020-04-14T07:09:05 < jadew> is she saying "mama ta de" maybe?
2020-04-14T07:09:13 < aandrew> yes mama ta de plode
2020-04-14T07:09:18 < aandrew> plod
2020-04-14T07:09:19 < aandrew> ?
2020-04-14T07:09:25 < jadew> maybe, it means kid
2020-04-14T07:09:54 < jadew> could be a shorthand for "vai de mama ta de plod"
2020-04-14T07:10:21 < aandrew> jadew: caca-m-as in gura matii de prost" -- something like shit in your stupid mouth?
2020-04-14T07:10:22 < jadew> it's difficult to translate, nothing nasty
2020-04-14T07:10:41 < aandrew> no she wouldn't say anything bad ot the kids, I just think it sounds hilarious
2020-04-14T07:10:43 < jadew> in your mom's mouth, and you're stupid
2020-04-14T07:10:49 < jadew> something like that
2020-04-14T07:11:22 < jadew> "in the mouth of the mom who made you stupid", might be closer
2020-04-14T07:11:29 < aandrew> lol
2020-04-14T07:11:32 < aandrew> love romanian curses
2020-04-14T07:11:47 < aandrew> and it's always about the mother too, lol
2020-04-14T07:11:54 < jadew> lol, yeah
2020-04-14T07:12:15 < jadew> there are softer ones too, no moms involved
2020-04-14T07:12:18 < jadew> "cacat cu ochi"
2020-04-14T07:12:23 < jadew> (shit with eyes)
2020-04-14T07:13:08 < jadew> I can teach you more, it's surprising how many we have
2020-04-14T07:13:29 < aandrew> heh nice
2020-04-14T07:16:50 < jadew> heh, in a certain font FLICKR, can be mistaken for FUCKR
2020-04-14T07:17:26 < aandrew> I've seen those FUCKER candles
2020-04-14T07:18:07 < jadew> is that a brand?
2020-04-14T07:19:27 < aandrew> not sure, I have seen the image though
2020-04-14T07:28:01 < jadew> crap, I screwed up my sleep schedule
2020-04-14T07:28:08 < englishman> what's the smallest cheapest plc with an rtc? I basically want a little mains timer
2020-04-14T07:28:08 < jadew> it's 7:30 am
2020-04-14T07:28:53 < englishman> getting a late start
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2020-04-14T07:46:21 < antto> jadew go to bed, boi!
2020-04-14T07:52:50 < englishman> so velocio has a rtc but no battery so I'd have to rig up a small ups, also kind of hacked together no time zones or anything but whatever
2020-04-14T07:53:06 < englishman> perfect
2020-04-14T07:53:12 < englishman> $50 plc
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2020-04-14T08:23:35 < dongs> wow
2020-04-14T08:23:42 < dongs> i thought sidebars in altium were badn
2020-04-14T08:23:53 < dongs> now im trying to change color of a surface in solidcocks and holy shit
2020-04-14T08:24:07 < dongs> the entire UI is like fucking abuse of dumb shit on top of dumb shit
2020-04-14T08:24:57 < englishman> why do you think the f35 sucks
2020-04-14T08:25:08 < dongs> what's F35
2020-04-14T08:25:30 < englishman> an airplane that cost 300 billion dollars
2020-04-14T08:28:05 < englishman> these apollo reports have hand drawn graphs on like 3m wide graphing paper with dynamic x scale, noncontinuous data and derivative annotations shit imagine doing that in excel
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2020-04-14T10:11:42 < dongs> oh wow solidcocks UX is so fucking bad
2020-04-14T10:12:12 < dongs> the fucking half-hidden menus, the fucking dumb ICONS that are NOT part of menus on every right click
2020-04-14T10:12:22 < dongs> unless you knoe exactly what youre doing you cant just READ teh shit
2020-04-14T10:12:33 < dongs> why would they split off parts of menu functions into icons only on top
2020-04-14T10:12:37 < dongs> that makes no fuckign sense sat all
2020-04-14T10:51:24 < zyp> englishman, no, if that's all I wanted this would be a pretty overcomplicated way of doing it
2020-04-14T10:58:58 < dongs> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KDbiPlN2TlY musics
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2020-04-14T11:46:02 < Steffanx> Do you enjoy that kind of music mr dongs?
2020-04-14T11:46:20 < Steffanx> I mean, not that kind, but THAT music
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2020-04-14T12:26:16 < Steffanx> lol mawk dont grab the ejection seat handle by accident: https://www.documentcloud.org/documents/6836894-FRENCH-AIR-INVESTIGATION-REPORT.html
2020-04-14T12:34:35 < mawk> lol
2020-04-14T12:35:42 < mawk> Le mercredi 20 mars 2019 à 12h50, une patrouille de trois avions Rafale décolle de la BA 113 de Saint-Dizier
2020-04-14T12:35:44 < mawk> pour une mission d’entraînement. Le décollage s’effectue avec un décalage de 30 secondes entre chaque
2020-04-14T12:35:46 < mawk> avion.
2020-04-14T12:35:48 < mawk> Après son envol, le pilote du dernier avion rentre le train d’atterrissage et accélère. Il affiche une assiette de
2020-04-14T12:35:50 < mawk> plus de 30° pour monter à 2500 ft. À la réduction d’assiette pour la mise en palier, le passager en place arrière
2020-04-14T12:35:52 < mawk> est éjecté.
2020-04-14T12:35:54 < mawk> practice your french Steffanx 
2020-04-14T12:36:21 < dongs> Steffanx: some pretty good shit there not gonna lie
2020-04-14T12:37:44 < Steffanx> Je ne parle pas français, mawk
2020-04-14T12:46:11 < karlp> hrm, I want a proxy for just one firefox window.
2020-04-14T12:46:43 < karlp> can't use chromium as "another" browser, as it uses system proxy
2020-04-14T12:52:46 < mawk> you can start a new ff instance with its own profile karlp 
2020-04-14T12:52:59 < mawk> but you can use chromium as another browser yes karlp ; the proxy settings are just hidden
2020-04-14T12:53:02 < mawk> you need to use the command line
2020-04-14T12:53:16 < mawk> but I'd just use FF, way easier
2020-04-14T12:53:49 < mawk> firefox --ProfileManager
2020-04-14T12:58:50 < karlp> "way easier" "no options in the prefs or menus for profiles at all"
2020-04-14T13:05:41 < Steffanx> OHNO, John H. Conway's Game of Life is over.. Killed by COVID-0x13
2020-04-14T13:07:12 < mawk> john conway dies but john mcafee survives
2020-04-14T13:07:14 < mawk> what world is this
2020-04-14T13:08:35 < PaulFertser> sick sad one
2020-04-14T13:35:12 < qyx> fuk mouser unexpected error half the time
2020-04-14T13:38:04 < zyp> expected errors the other half?
2020-04-14T13:38:10 < Steffanx> You forgot the n-word in there PaulFertser.
2020-04-14T13:39:16 < mawk> they say he didn't pull the trigger consciously Steffanx 
2020-04-14T13:39:21 < mawk> he was unconscious when it happened
2020-04-14T13:40:24 < Steffanx> lol, awesome.
2020-04-14T13:41:24 < qyx> karlp: foxyproxy no worky?
2020-04-14T13:42:06 < Steffanx> More AWESOMENESS: jenkins-GCC-9-pipeline-100_20191030_1572397542/src/gdb/gdb/inline-frame.c:156: internal-error: void inline_frame_this_id(frame_info*, void**, frame_id*): Assertion `frame_id_p (*this_id)' failed. 
2020-04-14T13:42:11 < Steffanx> boom crash GDB broken.
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2020-04-14T13:42:46 < karlp> qyx: I hadn't even started looking for new addons or extensions
2020-04-14T13:43:57 < dongs> any good stuff in revision 2020?
2020-04-14T13:45:50 < dongs> oh it just started is it
2020-04-14T13:45:52 < dongs> day 1?
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2020-04-14T13:49:13 < Steffanx> 2
2020-04-14T13:49:23 < dongs> i want to watch 64k intro
2020-04-14T13:49:26 < dongs> usually best stuff there
2020-04-14T13:50:08 < dongs> wait waht, its 14th now isnt it?
2020-04-14T13:50:15 < dongs> evision - April 10th to 13th 2020
2020-04-14T13:50:16 < dongs> On a sofa near you
2020-04-14T13:55:37 < karlp> what are you talking baout?
2020-04-14T13:56:40 < zyp> the Revision demoparty, I assume
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2020-04-14T13:59:07 < karlp> oh, I thought revision 2020 was maybe new gcc or something 
2020-04-14T14:00:29 < qyx> zyp: no, the other half is timeout
2020-04-14T14:00:38 < qyx> or ERROR - Service Unavailable
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2020-04-14T14:05:50 < Steffanx> Unexpected Error.
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2020-04-14T15:10:25 < mawk> I messed my company's site Steffanx 
2020-04-14T15:10:33 < mawk> it says ER IS WAT FOUT GEGAAN
2020-04-14T15:10:34 < Steffanx> lolwhat
2020-04-14T15:11:14 < Steffanx> works for me :P
2020-04-14T15:11:39 < Steffanx> did you change a query which was like mysql_query(...) or die("ER IS WAT FOUT GEGAAN"); ?
2020-04-14T15:12:17 < mawk> lol
2020-04-14T15:12:24 < mawk> no it's just the regular text of error 500
2020-04-14T15:13:11 < mawk> on another website, their "platform"
2020-04-14T15:13:23 < mawk> which receives data from sensorz
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2020-04-14T16:10:25 < Steffanx> aha
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2020-04-14T16:44:05 < Cracki> I count pulses. every millisecond I calculate the difference. once a second I print the current different in pulses/second. obviously you get a resolution of 1000, unless you lowpass. is that confusing? I have someone who wonders why, when he applies 800 Hz, he sees 1000 Hz, and he doesn't grasp my explanation.
2020-04-14T16:45:19 < Cracki> I said, apply 500 hz, you'll see 0 and 1000 randomly, at about equal probability. didn't seem to register.
2020-04-14T16:48:01 < karlp> if you're doing processing every second, sounds pretty busted to have resolution of 1000.
2020-04-14T16:48:05 < karlp> every millisecond sorry
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2020-04-14T17:26:35 < jpa-> Cracki: why do you calculate difference every millisecond, if you only print once a second?
2020-04-14T17:27:10 < karlp> that's what I said :) but apparently cracki is thinking on a higher level...
2020-04-14T17:27:16 < Cracki> because the millisecond difference is for control loop calculations (it's getting integrated mostly)
2020-04-14T17:27:26 < Cracki> and the once a second printing is just for debugging
2020-04-14T17:27:29 < jpa-> ok
2020-04-14T17:27:36 < karlp> or, not debugging, as the case obviously is...
2020-04-14T17:28:11 < Cracki> this is 50 hz input: https://imgur.com/24L1v01
2020-04-14T17:28:12 < karlp> pritnf("shit");  "why does it print shit, instead of somethign useful?" "because it prints shit! duh! you eediot"
2020-04-14T17:28:39 < jpa-> though if typical applied signal is 800 Hz, you might be better off measuring time between pulses or using a hybrid approach (count number of pulses, but divide by interval minus the time after previous edge)
2020-04-14T17:29:12 < Cracki> nah, I don't need rates at all. what I have is just fine for control loop
2020-04-14T17:29:35 < karlp> ah the ol, "I'm better than the users" approach. tried and tested, good chocie
2020-04-14T17:29:37 < jpa-> at least if it doesn't have a derivative term
2020-04-14T17:29:48 < Cracki> well this is a "derivative"
2020-04-14T17:30:07 < Cracki> the controller needs a sum of this difference and another
2020-04-14T17:30:12 < Cracki> sum/integral
2020-04-14T17:30:25 < Cracki> trouble is it seems to be a hard concept to grasp
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2020-04-14T17:31:30 < Cracki> I lowpassed it now for display but that's an arbitrary tau. the strength of the lowpass depends on what's to be done with the value anyway, so having the raw difference is the best thing
2020-04-14T17:31:30 < bitmask> hello boys
2020-04-14T17:31:44 < Cracki> how goes the electrofun
2020-04-14T17:32:13 < bitmask> on hold while I wait for paraloid in the mail
2020-04-14T17:32:14 < Cracki> I could calculate differences over a second but that's meh
2020-04-14T17:32:40 < Cracki> i need per-iteration differences anyway
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2020-04-14T19:07:48 < zyp> stopped by ikea to buy some storage boxes, turns out they've started selling usb-c-c-cables and PD chargers now
2020-04-14T19:08:13 < zyp> which is great, I have some of their a-c-cables which are cheap and decent
2020-04-14T19:08:31 < boddax> https://img-prod.tgcom24.mediaset.it/images/2020/04/14/110325985-4ea2d05f-dd4a-4285-ac11-ce4da6e7a41e.jpg this what proposed for the beach from govt lol sweatin sauna 
2020-04-14T19:08:47 < zyp> and the PD chargers looks nicely priced too, one 18W model and one 30W model
2020-04-14T19:10:27 < Cracki> design looks german
2020-04-14T19:10:34 < Cracki> lacks a moat tho
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2020-04-14T19:12:42 < emeb> It's well known that viruses can't go over walls
2020-04-14T19:14:38 < Cracki> they should do everything they can to get people out under sun light
2020-04-14T19:16:10 < zyp> emeb, did you see my usb-c pmod?
2020-04-14T19:16:13 < zyp> https://bin.jvnv.net/file/CgTwR.png
2020-04-14T19:16:40 < emeb> zyp: cute! what does it do?
2020-04-14T19:17:22 < zyp> it has a stm32g0 that can do PD comms, manage pullup/downs on data lines and power switches
2020-04-14T19:18:52 < emeb> sounds interesting. I haven't kept up with all the various things that usb-c power stuff can do so I've got very little clue what that involves.
2020-04-14T19:18:55 < zyp> so it should be able to let a fpga do both FS/LS host/device as well as PD
2020-04-14T19:19:20 < zyp> well, it can talk to other PD devices, negotiate power contracts, e.g. ask for higher voltages
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2020-04-14T19:20:14 < emeb> i see. what's the big black cube at the back?
2020-04-14T19:20:23 < zyp> dip switch
2020-04-14T19:20:32 < zyp> https://bin.jvnv.net/file/SN6p1/PMOD_USBC_FS_G0.pdf
2020-04-14T19:21:46 < zyp> part of the point is to test out some stuff that I might use on larger boards
2020-04-14T19:22:06 < emeb> the tps66020 does all the power handling?
2020-04-14T19:22:32 < zyp> it's mostly just a pair of power switches
2020-04-14T19:22:52 < zyp> and a LDO
2020-04-14T19:23:03 < zyp> but still a nice part
2020-04-14T19:24:28 < Steffanx> ÅSKSTORM zyp?
2020-04-14T19:24:33 < zyp> it seems like a decent combo for the ecp5 board I'm thinking about making too
2020-04-14T19:25:39 < zyp> stm32g0 can first negotiate with the power supply to get 12V or something if available, and then it can configure and turn on the local bucks
2020-04-14T19:26:41 < zyp> I'm tempted to use programmable bucks to provide power for the io banks
2020-04-14T19:27:21 < zyp> Steffanx, yes
2020-04-14T19:30:09 < catphish> i hate power supplies
2020-04-14T19:32:58 < emeb> yeah - noticed that the HV port just goes out to a header.
2020-04-14T19:33:17 < zyp> well, yeah, there's nothing on the pmod to use it for
2020-04-14T19:33:38 < zyp> but the board can also be used as a standalone usb-c power adapter
2020-04-14T19:33:56 < emeb> so the usb-c cc pins have some kind of comm protocol for the power negotiations?
2020-04-14T19:42:05 < zyp> yes
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2020-04-14T19:45:13 < emeb> ah so the g071gb has the usb-c pd controller built in. nice.
2020-04-14T19:45:40 < zyp> yeah
2020-04-14T19:46:35 < englishman> oh those ikea chargers are quite nice and also cheap
2020-04-14T19:46:45 < englishman> smaller one is 5/9/12/15V and the larger one adds 20V
2020-04-14T19:46:54 < zyp> saw that
2020-04-14T19:47:06 < emeb> I guess I remember reading some stuff about the modulation formats for the pd negotiations a while back. pretty complicated IIRC
2020-04-14T19:47:09 < zyp> I was considering getting some 18W PD chargers from aliexpress the other day
2020-04-14T19:47:19 < englishman> a lot of chargers skip one or two of 9/12/15V
2020-04-14T19:47:27 < zyp> but no point now that I can get stuff at my local ikea for about the same price
2020-04-14T19:47:59 < englishman> usb c-c is usb2 tho
2020-04-14T19:48:56 < zyp> yeah, most are, unless you specifically get a usb3 one
2020-04-14T19:50:06 < karlp> yeah, if they did _everything_ right, a PD 18W charger is a what, 20mV steppable 5-12V programmable supply?
2020-04-14T19:50:15 < karlp> and those are.... non-existing in real world?
2020-04-14T19:50:39 < zyp> most are 5/9/12/15
2020-04-14T19:50:49 < zyp> for 18"
2020-04-14T19:50:51 < zyp> 18W
2020-04-14T19:51:00 < zyp> and higher wattages add 20V
2020-04-14T19:51:25 < zyp> dunno about the ones that's supposed to support arbitrary supplies
2020-04-14T19:51:49 < catphish> the spec probably only allows 2 bits to store the voltage :)
2020-04-14T19:51:53 < catphish> i know how committees work
2020-04-14T19:51:56 < zyp> no
2020-04-14T19:51:58 < karlp> I got some samsung "fast charge" usb-A supplies with these 4g hotspots the other day, they do 5v@2A or 9V@1.67A apparently
2020-04-14T19:52:01 < englishman> i havent seen that 20mV stepping on any supply so far
2020-04-14T19:52:09 < englishman> they just do the fixed pdos
2020-04-14T19:52:17 < zyp> also, I glanced through the PD spec yesterday, seems it's a lot more flexible than that too
2020-04-14T19:52:34 < catphish> zyp: that's cool, i had no idea it was flexible like that
2020-04-14T19:52:36 < englishman> probably samsung quickcharge
2020-04-14T19:52:38 < karlp> englishman: yeah, but it _could_ though, right
2020-04-14T19:52:56 < zyp> apparently it's possible to feed out a battery voltage range too
2020-04-14T19:53:01 < karlp> last time I read the pd stuff at least.
2020-04-14T19:53:08 < englishman> the application for that is direct battery charging, there also hasnt been a lot of sources that require it as battery chargers are cheap
2020-04-14T19:53:10 < zyp> i.e. power supply doesn't promise a given voltage, but a range
2020-04-14T19:53:17 < englishman> err, sinks that require it
2020-04-14T19:53:50 < zyp> englishman, yeah, but taking the regulator power dissipation out of the device might be beneficial
2020-04-14T19:54:06 < zyp> my phone does that, but is apparently based on some VOOC shit, not PD
2020-04-14T19:54:44 < zyp> hmm, I haven't looked at what it actually does in practice, gonna check
2020-04-14T19:57:43 < zyp> plugged in phone now with about 75% charge, charger feeds about 4A at 4.6V
2020-04-14T19:59:07 < emeb> sounds like ~18W to me
2020-04-14T20:00:14 < zyp> I think it's supposed to be able to do 6A, but I guess that's limited to lower states of charge
2020-04-14T20:00:30 < zyp> it's already dropped off to 3.4A
2020-04-14T20:00:49 < emeb> you have an in-line meter?
2020-04-14T20:00:53 < zyp> yes
2020-04-14T20:06:15 < englishman> that's too high for direct LiPo charging, it probably has the charger in it
2020-04-14T20:06:25 < englishman> 4a tho
2020-04-14T20:06:41 < englishman> I thought phones all switched to 9v charging
2020-04-14T20:07:21 < zyp> ideally it'd use PD
2020-04-14T20:07:27 < zyp> but in practice I don't care
2020-04-14T20:08:35 < zyp> battery is usually still at least half full when I go to bed, plug it in and it's full in the morning
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2020-04-14T20:16:41 < boddax> thanks to germany NGO bring to us another 160 immigrants
2020-04-14T20:17:45 < BrainDamage> it's ok, just merge the immigration camps with the isolation wards of hospitals
2020-04-14T20:17:52 < BrainDamage> let two problems solve each other
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2020-04-14T20:19:34 < Thorn> TIL: you can reset forward (up the commit chain)
2020-04-14T20:19:38 < boddax> the cure is cannon balls to sink the boat
2020-04-14T20:26:08 < specing> BrainDamage: the migrants are mostly young, they'll survive
2020-04-14T20:26:48 < BrainDamage> it'll still cull many of them, not to mention they are already weakened by the bad conditions
2020-04-14T20:27:07 < jpa-> Thorn: you can reset sideways also, and if you fetch from a totally unrelated project, you can reset between projects also! :)
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2020-04-14T20:28:21 < specing> BrainDamage: it's not their fault that they lived in miserable conditions back home
2020-04-14T20:28:45 < specing> Europe could have fixed it a decade ago, instead made it worse
2020-04-14T20:28:53 < specing> now europe gets migrants
2020-04-14T20:29:01 < specing> who could have expected it.. haha
2020-04-14T20:29:05 < boddax> not really specing
2020-04-14T20:29:07 < BrainDamage> specing: it's not anyone's faults where they are born in
2020-04-14T20:29:28 < BrainDamage> but you need to be able to take care of yourself before taking care of others
2020-04-14T20:29:29 < Cracki> it's europe's fault that europe keeps dumping food on that continent
2020-04-14T20:29:37 < Cracki> they get to live without learning to care for themselves
2020-04-14T20:29:47 < boddax> europe get only who have right for asylum ..thats only 2 o 3 percent of total
2020-04-14T20:30:08 < Cracki> the rest wait for deportation... forever, meanwhile roaming free
2020-04-14T20:30:57 < boddax> until still NGO go to bring them ..they come ..crimal organization
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2020-04-14T20:41:01 < Cracki> I salute you, roman
2020-04-14T20:43:33 < BrainDamage> how to properly help africa is still an open question, you cannot just dump resources there because that makes their economy uncompetitive, you want for them to be able to scale capacity
2020-04-14T20:43:48 < BrainDamage> maybe building infrastructure there would be a good compromise
2020-04-14T20:44:54 < Cracki> the chinese do that right now
2020-04-14T20:44:59 < Cracki> colonial europe did it.
2020-04-14T20:45:10 < Cracki> (and some other stuff)
2020-04-14T20:45:18 < Cracki> let's see how the chinese handle the situation :D
2020-04-14T20:45:29 < Cracki> there's a documentary on their struggle
2020-04-14T20:45:47 < Cracki> it mentions the infrastructure that was left to them by europeans
2020-04-14T20:46:20 < Cracki> nothing unique happens. the same thing happens in california. clean streets turn into garbage and feces.
2020-04-14T20:47:03 < Cracki> the problem likely isn't the location
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2020-04-14T20:53:23 < kakimir> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2XLZ4Z8LpEE&feature=youtu.be&t=673
2020-04-14T20:55:37 < machinehum> Oh baby I got close to getting that NI daq working on my machine
2020-04-14T20:55:57 < machinehum> Until 10.14 was the last version of osx that NI supported
2020-04-14T20:56:04 < machinehum> and I'm on 10.15
2020-04-14T20:56:08 < machinehum> lameo
2020-04-14T21:00:12 < Cracki> damn that's a precise level https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7WFm4P29gNU
2020-04-14T21:00:34 < Cracki> so what changed from 10.14 to .15
2020-04-14T21:00:38 < Cracki> can't be much can it
2020-04-14T21:01:16 < aandrew> any of you guys ever used micropython/circuitpython? 
2020-04-14T21:01:29 < Cracki> yes but not much. on esp8266
2020-04-14T21:01:34 < aandrew> I mean I know we're all pros but ...
2020-04-14T21:01:42 < aandrew> Cracki: opinions on it?
2020-04-14T21:02:10 < Cracki> cute, but the "stuff around it" was lacking.
2020-04-14T21:02:41 < Cracki> I hear arduino's IOT shit supports OTA update to the device. micropython or the nodemcu/lua stuff is... janky
2020-04-14T21:02:52 < aandrew> it seems like it's a lateral step compared with arduino which seems to run on damn near everything
2020-04-14T21:03:05 < Cracki> basically it's fine once it runs but debugging is awful
2020-04-14T21:03:22 < aandrew> yeah I keep glancing over at lua because it is embeddable and isn't a toy language meant for beginners
2020-04-14T21:03:58 < Cracki> python isn't either, but internet of shit heads got hold of both, and shoehorned them into tiny devices... all that is still good, but they didn't bother working on TOOLING
2020-04-14T21:04:57 < jpa-> it's not that often that people use pydb or similar on PC either
2020-04-14T21:05:37 < Cracki> I'm not even asking for that but the ways they have to move source files from and to the device are... rudimentary
2020-04-14T21:05:47 < Cracki> slow as fuck even
2020-04-14T21:06:24 < Cracki> when I toyed with nodemcu/lua and micropython, the ways to get a language prompt over wireless were very very janky
2020-04-14T21:06:53 < Cracki> nodemcu required me to write lua code to listen to a port, accept a connetion, then tie that to the interpreter in some way
2020-04-14T21:07:29 < Cracki> at the very least I want a decently working way to work with a prompt
2020-04-14T21:07:31 < machinehum> Cracki: mac os is dumb like that
2020-04-14T21:08:01 < machinehum> I chose this thing because is was the only posix option at my new company
2020-04-14T21:10:00 < Cracki> if I had to do internet of shit again, I'd take a look at arduino, then micropython and nodemcu/lua again
2020-04-14T21:10:32 < Cracki> i'd evaluate each on how well they support simple printlining, i.e. how much hassle it is to get serial output off the device while pushing new code repeatedly
2020-04-14T21:10:56 < Cracki> arduino's serial monitor, in the case of good old arduinos, disconnects before upload, and reconnects after, so you don't have to fuck around with that
2020-04-14T21:11:19 < Cracki> I'd hope they got that working for wireless devices too
2020-04-14T21:12:10 < Cracki> definitely not something I'd give kids to learn programming (or robotics!) with, no matter how en vogue that shit is
2020-04-14T21:17:45 < Cracki> time taken to save code + compile + upload is an interesting number too. maybe it's my computer but plain arduino seems to recompile everything every time you hit the button, which takes several seconds
2020-04-14T21:28:10 < rmaw> Free Arrow Shipping at the moment
2020-04-14T21:29:53 < Cracki> anything you'd suggest to buy?
2020-04-14T21:30:01 < rmaw> single 0402 10k resistor
2020-04-14T21:30:32 < rmaw> looks like it would ship from USA for free
2020-04-14T21:31:04 < catphish> buy logic level mosfets, they're beautiful
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2020-04-14T21:36:12 < aandrew> yeah for kids I still think that something better than scratch needs to exist, or at least a good scratch "module" that gives decent access to a BLE module for controlling motors/servos/leds and seeing buttons/sensors
2020-04-14T21:36:52 < aandrew> arduino has a lot going for it which is kind of funny to say
2020-04-14T21:37:24 < aandrew> but the fact that I can have a BLE device up and running on Arduino, including OTA updates, in like 30 lines of code is something
2020-04-14T21:38:59 < catphish> why does this device exist? https://datasheet.lcsc.com/szlcsc/Changjiang-Electronics-Tech-CJ-2N7002_C8545.pdf why does it describe 5 ohms as "low Rds (on)"? it seems like a truly awful part
2020-04-14T21:39:28 < englishman> aandrew: have you heard of BTA design services
2020-04-14T21:40:32 < BrainDamage> catphish: the only positive quality it has for its own it that Vgsth is extremely low, so you can switch low voltages
2020-04-14T21:42:27 < catphish> BrainDamage: this is what i will probably use, which has just as good Vgsth https://datasheet.lcsc.com/szlcsc/Alpha-Omega-Semicon-AOS-AO3400A_C20917.pdf
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2020-04-14T21:43:08 < catphish> it's 4x the price, but still only 8 cents, and as far as i can tell, dramatically better in every way
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2020-04-14T21:59:17 < Cracki> keep an eye on gate capacitance/switching time
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2020-04-14T22:30:04 < catphish> Cracki: ah yes, will do, luckily for this application it's not important, but always worth keeping in mind when evaluating fets
2020-04-14T22:30:49 < aandrew> englishman: no, it does not sound familiar. what is it?
2020-04-14T22:30:55 < Cracki> same. I keep within single khz usually
2020-04-14T22:31:25 < catphish> this particular project only has a <1Hz switching speed requirement
2020-04-14T22:32:06 < catphish> magnet goes on, magnet goes off :)
2020-04-14T22:32:33 < catphish> though i'm in 2 minds whether i need to buffer the RFID reader
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2020-04-14T22:47:25 < brdb> has anyone used DMA to scream data to an entire GPIO port? is that a thing whatsoever? ultimately comes down to sending parallel data to a TFT for fast content displaying/loading
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2020-04-14T22:48:30 < brdb> my bold assumption here is that utilizing the entire 16-bit port provided by the TFT for data bits will be faster than SPI
2020-04-14T22:48:31 < Cracki> haven't but it's a common operation from what I hear
2020-04-14T22:48:43 < Cracki> the tricky part is timing it right
2020-04-14T22:49:03 < Cracki> i.e. dma gets poked by timer
2020-04-14T22:49:06 < brdb> oh right cause it's all in the background isn't it
2020-04-14T22:49:12 < brdb> i didn't think about that
2020-04-14T22:49:31 < Cracki> not "tricky" but what makes it work
2020-04-14T22:50:15 < brdb> i've not used DMA before, not had to for any projects really, but thinking it may be useful for something that requires so much throughput as a display
2020-04-14T22:50:53 < Cracki> my latest use of dma is for ADC. it's writing values from multiple channels continuously into an array I give it
2020-04-14T22:50:55 < brdb> DMA interrupts i imagine would be able to just clock whatever data is there into the TFT memory (as that's all synchronous from reading the datasheet)
2020-04-14T22:51:55 < qyx> brdb: been there, done that
2020-04-14T22:52:24 < qyx> reading jpeg camera data (8bit, so half of a port)
2020-04-14T22:52:30 < qyx> DMA triggered by timer input capture
2020-04-14T22:54:09 < brdb> that's interesting qyx, i know the stm32s (some if not all) have the camera interface modules to boot as well
2020-04-14T22:54:45 < qyx> definitely not all
2020-04-14T22:54:48 < qyx> to boot?
2020-04-14T22:55:13 < brdb> to utilize as part of offloading work from having to process it sucking up cycles
2020-04-14T22:56:25 < brdb> what i can't wrap my head around too-too well is that the red, green, and blue pixels are either on or off so i'm worried that faux-pwm may have to come into play to make the picture appear correctly. probably just thinking about it the wrong way tbh
2020-04-14T22:57:31 < Cracki> "to boot", idiom
2020-04-14T22:58:01 < brdb> ^ that, too
2020-04-14T22:58:10 < Cracki> on or off, meaning 1-bit color channels?
2020-04-14T22:58:38 < Cracki> what's in those 16 bits then? from 16 bits i'd expect rgb 565
2020-04-14T22:59:37 < brdb> Cracki: i don't think i'm correct in my understanding: https://www.displayfuture.com/Display/datasheet/controller/ILI9486L.pdf
2020-04-14T23:00:10 < Cracki> for those things I suspect there's plenty of interfacing code out there
2020-04-14T23:00:43 < brdb> looks like 18bit leads to 6-bit color channels, and 16bit to 5-bit color channels
2020-04-14T23:00:50 < brdb> yeah I've seen a few for these popular drivers
2020-04-14T23:01:07 < Cracki> index mentions 565 and 666 rgb, anything else I didn't look for
2020-04-14T23:01:23 < Cracki> 565 gives you funny green-pink color bands
2020-04-14T23:01:32 < Cracki> but eh, 16 bit color is usually 565
2020-04-14T23:01:49 < Cracki> you can throw away the one bit but why not use it
2020-04-14T23:02:07 < zyp> 5551 rgba is also a thing
2020-04-14T23:02:16 < zyp> not for displays obviouslt
2020-04-14T23:02:32 < Cracki> 5551, sensible
2020-04-14T23:02:58 < brdb> might make things more cumbersome if done parallel vs spi
2020-04-14T23:03:04 < brdb> iirc GPIO pins typically go from 0-15
2020-04-14T23:03:31 < Cracki> that just means 18 bits are out, or might be too tricky
2020-04-14T23:03:52 < brdb> if i want to explore DMA with that I'll have to see how that's done, but first implemntation will probably be without
2020-04-14T23:03:56 < brdb> might not even need it if it's fast enough
2020-04-14T23:04:13 < brdb> it should be significantly faster than SPI, regardless, if done in parallel
2020-04-14T23:04:15 < Cracki> what performance do you need, in pixels per second?
2020-04-14T23:04:50 < brdb> the assumption i'm running on is if memory write is slow the display will have visible tearing as data is written to it
2020-04-14T23:05:01 < brdb> i don't know if it buffers the data prior to applying it to the pixels
2020-04-14T23:05:10 < Cracki> then double buffer
2020-04-14T23:05:28 < Cracki> what frame rate are you aiming for
2020-04-14T23:05:55 < brdb> i haven't sorted that out yet, but ideally 30 or up should be fine
2020-04-14T23:05:58 < Cracki> if the display doesn't have double buffering, most sane transfer rates will be visible
2020-04-14T23:06:14 < Cracki> if your controller-side drawind eosn't do double buffering, it will definitely be visible
2020-04-14T23:06:37 < Cracki> so 4.608 megapixel/sec
2020-04-14T23:07:01 < Cracki> *16 gives you ~64 MHz  for spi at minimum
2020-04-14T23:07:25 < brdb> double buffering meaning have it ready in memory prior to writing as opposed to calculating on the fly?
2020-04-14T23:07:34 < brdb> i'm not sure i understand
2020-04-14T23:07:34 < Cracki> dma to spi might do this
2020-04-14T23:07:52 < Cracki> double buffering means you have one buffer that transfers, while the other is changed/drawn to
2020-04-14T23:08:11 < brdb> oh i see
2020-04-14T23:08:15 < Cracki> on the display side, double buffering would mean it's waiting for a full screen to be transferred before applying it to the pixels
2020-04-14T23:08:23 < brdb> right
2020-04-14T23:08:29 < brdb> i think most shift registers do exactly that
2020-04-14T23:08:38 < brdb> at least the common hobbyist favorites i've seen
2020-04-14T23:08:39 < Cracki> "latching" is the feature for those
2020-04-14T23:08:45 < brdb> that's it!
2020-04-14T23:09:16 < Cracki> ye, latching and double buffering are pretty much the same idea
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2020-04-14T23:10:06 < brdb> the advantage being that you only draw to the screen when it's got a full-new "image" in memory to transfer, with DMA being the kicker
2020-04-14T23:10:11 < Cracki> except in double buffering you don't copy, you instead flip the buffers, so you alternate between drawing to one and the other
2020-04-14T23:10:21 < brdb> oh
2020-04-14T23:10:30 < Cracki> a shift register IC "copies" the bits from shift register to output register
2020-04-14T23:11:00 < brdb> okay i'm starting to get the advantage there, the flipping would save you the time of having to constantly copy from one to the other
2020-04-14T23:11:27 < Cracki> double buffering assumes that you redraw the whole picture. if you don't, but paint pieces over the current contents, it's your responsibility to copy from the old buffer to the current one
2020-04-14T23:12:01 < brdb> right otherwise you're updating an old picture
2020-04-14T23:12:07 < Cracki> the flipping is still a good idea because then you have one buffer that is read from twice (once for copy to new buffer, once for display/transfer)
2020-04-14T23:12:36 < Cracki> without flipping you would have to copy still, but you'r write to something that is the "output register"... and copying takes time
2020-04-14T23:12:48 < brdb> very clever
2020-04-14T23:12:52 < Cracki> a shift register's "copy" is just a signal to a bunch of gates, that takes no time
2020-04-14T23:13:06 < brdb> hardware is hardware
2020-04-14T23:15:00 < Cracki> huh, looks like this ili9486 has drawing commands. at least it seems there's a way to paint individual pixels
2020-04-14T23:15:06 < Cracki> ( https://github.com/sonicpp/ili9486/blob/master/stm32f4/main.c)
2020-04-14T23:18:39 < brdb> that could save a lot of processing if you're only drawing to certain portions of the screen
2020-04-14T23:18:48 < brdb> such as something like refreshing the way a button looks
2020-04-14T23:19:18 < qyx> fellow pros, how do you do BOMs
2020-04-14T23:19:19 < brdb> could get cumbersome to implement depending on application
2020-04-14T23:19:40 < brdb> BOMs as in bill of materials?
2020-04-14T23:19:58 < aandrew> Cracki: no FMC on the part you're using?
2020-04-14T23:19:59 < Cracki> if you have double buffering on mcu side, you can diff and send
2020-04-14T23:20:12 < Cracki> I'm not using a display, he is :D
2020-04-14T23:20:19 < aandrew> oh
2020-04-14T23:20:23 < aandrew> brdb: no FMC on the part you're using?
2020-04-14T23:20:43 < zyp> qyx, push the export BOM button in altium?
2020-04-14T23:21:34 < brdb> aandrew: FMC?
2020-04-14T23:22:04 < zyp> qyx, the simplest thing it'll do is something like this: https://paste.jvnv.net/view/N2HQ1
2020-04-14T23:22:20 < qyx> zyp: and whats next? how do you order things, match them from various distributors, etc
2020-04-14T23:22:21 < zyp> and if you want something more advanced it can also fill out excel templates and shit
2020-04-14T23:22:43 < zyp> next? I put it in the .zip with the gerbers and email it away
2020-04-14T23:23:03 < qyx> :D
2020-04-14T23:23:14 < aandrew> brdb: flexible memory controller; basically you configure the stm32 to say "I've got a 16-bit intel/motorola bus hanging off htese pins, accessess to the 1MB region starting at 0x123000000 go to those pins"
2020-04-14T23:23:32 < aandrew> then you can mem-to-mem DMA to your heart's content and the FMC takes care of all timings
2020-04-14T23:25:40 < brdb> i'll look into it, not sure i've seen that for the ili9486 i'm using
2020-04-14T23:25:56 < zyp> qyx, altium lets you add custom fields to component data and include that as cols in exports, previous place I worked used that to add distributor part numbers
2020-04-14T23:26:05 < aandrew> most times LCDs with a parallel bus are emulating intel or motorola style buses
2020-04-14T23:26:23 < zyp> and I think altium also got some builtin BOM matching against multiple distributors
2020-04-14T23:26:29 < aandrew> but the FMC is pretty flexible (it's in the name too) -- it can drive practically anything you can describe
2020-04-14T23:27:16 < zyp> haven't looked at that for years, but IIRC it even sources prices and availability and shit
2020-04-14T23:27:29 < aandrew> oh I have one of these displays
2020-04-14T23:27:31 < aandrew> http://www.lcdwiki.com/3.5inch_16BIT_Module_ILI9486_SKU:MRB3503
2020-04-14T23:27:35 < aandrew> pretty much that exact board
2020-04-14T23:27:39 < brdb> i'll start with lazily updating the whole screen each time and gauging performance on that, this may be too nitty-gritty for my application but good to know about
2020-04-14T23:27:45 < brdb> yeah that's it
2020-04-14T23:27:46 < zyp> qyx, https://www.altium.com/solution/active-bom
2020-04-14T23:27:56 < zyp> but I haven't used that
2020-04-14T23:28:38 < zyp> the shit I do is too simple to spend a bunch of time setting up/learning a BOM management system
2020-04-14T23:29:08 < zyp> takes less time to just print the bom and check off each item with a pen as I put it in the digikey cart or something :p
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2020-04-14T23:30:26 < zyp> qyx, but you're probably looking for something like kitspace.org
2020-04-14T23:30:34 < brdb> aandrew: did you find that one to have something such as FMC?
2020-04-14T23:31:52 < englishman> aandrew: a fpga/asic design services company in ottawa doing a bunch of riscV shit for the openhw guys
2020-04-14T23:31:59 < qyx> zyp: for example now I have a board with 85 types of components and it is very hard to manage by hand
2020-04-14T23:32:11 < qyx> it is still a proto, so meh
2020-04-14T23:35:51 < zyp> 85 bom entries sounds like a lot
2020-04-14T23:35:54 < qyx> yes, something like thebom builder
2020-04-14T23:36:26 < qyx> in addition to that I would like to keep my own inventory of spare components
2020-04-14T23:36:50 < qyx> in a way I can update it easily when I make protos
2020-04-14T23:56:31 < englishman> lol, travel bans for thee but not for me https://www.instagram.com/p/B-5bgxkl33G/
2020-04-14T23:58:48 < karlp> who is it?
2020-04-14T23:58:59 < mawk> mister canada
2020-04-14T23:59:01 < mawk> magic justin
2020-04-14T23:59:13 < Steffanx> What's wrong with a pic in your backyard englishman?
2020-04-14T23:59:19 < karlp> are you not allowed outside?
2020-04-14T23:59:21 < englishman> karlp cant tell because he's wearing whiteface
2020-04-14T23:59:29 < mawk> lol englishman: duboisbouchard
2020-04-14T23:59:31 < mawk> T une esty dconne
2020-04-14T23:59:38 < mawk> people like this really exist
2020-04-14T23:59:44 < englishman> there are travel between regions even within provinces
2020-04-14T23:59:51 < mawk> when we make fun of quebec in standup it looks like this
2020-04-14T23:59:58 < englishman> yes mawk that is proper Québecois
--- Day changed Wed Apr 15 2020
2020-04-15T00:00:13 < Steffanx> im out, in the back yard all the time...  :P
2020-04-15T00:00:14 < englishman> like this https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bUqC3o3vIiI
2020-04-15T00:00:18 < mawk> "you're such a cunt"
2020-04-15T00:00:50 < mawk> lol
2020-04-15T00:01:27 < Steffanx> I'm dumb.
2020-04-15T00:01:58 < Steffanx> is there a fix for that? Something that does not involve COVID-0x13?
2020-04-15T00:01:58 < mawk> noooo not you
2020-04-15T00:02:37 < Steffanx> Yes, im a lost cause.
2020-04-15T00:02:45 < Steffanx> or something
2020-04-15T00:03:18 < mawk> nooo
2020-04-15T00:04:59 < englishman> mawk another https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JEAKuOhImFc
2020-04-15T00:05:07 < Steffanx> once ther was this code while(do_something() == something) {  ...  } for whatever reason i changed that to int x = do_something(); while(x == something) {...} and moved on to other parts of the code. Then i ran the code it it stopped working properly. Such surprise.
2020-04-15T00:05:34 < Steffanx> ^ thats how i imagine englishman
2020-04-15T00:06:07 < englishman> no this is me steffy https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cjhtTQiDJLs
2020-04-15T00:06:27 < Steffanx> haha
2020-04-15T00:07:32 < Steffanx> You need more smoothies
2020-04-15T00:17:39 < mawk> lol englishman 
2020-04-15T00:17:43 < mawk> I don't want to see this
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2020-04-15T00:21:11 < Laurenceb> emdrive is the future man
2020-04-15T00:21:23 < Laurenceb> like... emdrive powered by solar roadways
2020-04-15T00:22:22 < mawk> lol
2020-04-15T00:22:38 < mawk> we have a solar roadway in france
2020-04-15T00:22:46 < mawk> by my best friend Ségolène Royal
2020-04-15T00:23:12 < Laurenceb> storing up the enerrgy in eestor
2020-04-15T00:23:31 < Laurenceb> powered by orbo
2020-04-15T00:23:40 < Laurenceb> from steorn
2020-04-15T00:30:39 < Laurenceb> https://www.nextbigfuture.com/2017/06/solar-powered-emdrive-version-of-space-battleship-yamato.html
2020-04-15T00:30:45 < Laurenceb> oh shit I've been outmemed
2020-04-15T00:32:44 < Laurenceb> but these guys arent ironic...
2020-04-15T00:33:03 < englishman> hygeinetech is the future
2020-04-15T00:33:04 < englishman> https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/good-times/hygiene-machine-gun-edc-door-opener-and-stylus
2020-04-15T00:35:18 < aandrew> brdb: hm?
2020-04-15T00:35:37 < aandrew> englishman: ah. interesting. don't ahve any history with them and before now, never heard of them
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2020-04-15T00:46:02 < karlp> this is quite a camera: https://www.eenewseurope.com/news/high-speed-imaging-video-shows-how-far-covid-19-sneeze-reaches
2020-04-15T00:53:41 < englishman> 280 watt power supply
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2020-04-15T01:15:53 < Laurenceb> Your nearly a good laugh almost a joker #FREEWEINSTEIN Stop trading pussy for fame and changing your story to rape, your all over paid hookers!
2020-04-15T01:16:34 < Laurenceb> based hashtag
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2020-04-15T01:25:41 < Steffanx> Got some methylphenidate Laurenceb?
2020-04-15T01:26:10 < Laurenceb> nope
2020-04-15T01:26:14 < mawk> methylphenidate is horrible
2020-04-15T01:26:54 < kakigate> what is that?
2020-04-15T01:32:50 < Steffanx> ADHD "treatment"
2020-04-15T01:34:02 -!- bitmask [~bitmask@c-73-215-237-27.hsd1.nj.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: Gone to sleep...]
2020-04-15T01:34:07 < kakigate> but it's not amphetamines?
2020-04-15T01:35:49 < Steffanx> Ritalin you must know?
2020-04-15T01:38:16 < kakigate> ah
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2020-04-15T03:10:58 < Laurenceb> >XXX-Parties in line with government guidelines has stopped all from cumming
2020-04-15T03:11:00 < Laurenceb> damn
2020-04-15T03:11:13 < Laurenceb> now I really hate coronavirus
2020-04-15T03:19:06 < kakigate> can you translate that
2020-04-15T03:19:45 < aandrew> ok
2020-04-15T03:20:07 < aandrew> so an STM32F4 running at 168MHz SYSCLK can have a TIMER1 clock 2x that, right?
2020-04-15T03:20:15 < aandrew> there's an internal doubler available on some timer channels
2020-04-15T03:21:02 < aandrew> which means the timer tick is down at 1/336MHz or 3ns
2020-04-15T03:22:01 < aandrew> damn, TDC7200 has that beat by almost 2 orders of magnitude
2020-04-15T03:22:10 < aandrew> (55ps resolution)
2020-04-15T03:22:35 < karlp> you want the f334 if you wantfaster, not f4
2020-04-15T03:23:17 < aandrew> hm? F4 doesn't have that feature or F334 can go faster yet
2020-04-15T03:23:32 < aandrew> the 334 has highres timer at 227ps
2020-04-15T03:23:41 < karlp> still only getrs yuou 217ps, yeah
2020-04-15T03:23:47 < karlp> 55ps is quickysplits
2020-04-15T03:24:08 < karlp> g4 will get you to 184ps
2020-04-15T03:24:27 < karlp> Transparent high-resolution implementation (equivalent to 4.6 GHz timer) for easy programming 
2020-04-15T03:24:31 < aandrew> not saying I need that fast, just evaluating options as in "is 3ns good enough" or not
2020-04-15T03:24:42 < aandrew> damn no shit?
2020-04-15T03:24:45 < aandrew> lookng that up
2020-04-15T03:24:46 < karlp> the 55ps on that fixed function msp430 might not be as flexible as you think.
2020-04-15T03:24:54 < karlp> that'ðs on g4x4
2020-04-15T03:25:09 < aandrew> it's not an msp430, it's a time interval chip meant for ultrasonic delay measurement (which is exactly what I'm using it for)
2020-04-15T03:25:40  * karlp shrugs, out of my field, just remembered seeing this stuff in st literature
2020-04-15T03:26:15 < aandrew> thanks for pointing out the g4x4, never would have thought of it
2020-04-15T03:26:20 < aandrew> and really I should be working on some BLE shits
2020-04-15T03:27:49 < Laurenceb> none of the st stuff is real
2020-04-15T03:28:08 < Laurenceb> the timer "crazy resolution" is just dither so it only works for output
2020-04-15T03:28:18 < Laurenceb> you can achieve the same results on F1 with use of dma
2020-04-15T03:28:21 < Laurenceb> I did
2020-04-15T03:28:24 < karlp> on g4 it says available in all modes
2020-04-15T03:28:32 < karlp> but sure, you keep using your f1 
2020-04-15T03:28:33 < Laurenceb> hmmm
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2020-04-15T03:32:36 < Laurenceb> the maths accels look pretty hawt
2020-04-15T03:32:37 < qyx> the multi-ps timers on F334 (and G4) are not counters, they are a combination of counters and ring oscillators
2020-04-15T03:32:45 < qyx> so it may not fit your purpose
2020-04-15T03:32:49 < Laurenceb> hmm
2020-04-15T03:33:05  * Laurenceb reads the datasheet to see if its actually useful for anything
2020-04-15T03:33:18 < aandrew> qyx: that's exactly what the TDC7200 is
2020-04-15T03:33:31 < qyx> do you need such resolution?
2020-04-15T03:33:35 < aandrew> well
2020-04-15T03:33:53 < aandrew> the idea is to calculate oxygen concentration and the molar masses of O2 and N2 are very, very close
2020-04-15T03:33:54 < qyx> are you measuring thickness of a sheet of something
2020-04-15T03:34:06 < aandrew> so the more granular I can get the measurements, the better resolution I will have
2020-04-15T03:34:07 < Laurenceb> looks like they improved the DAC
2020-04-15T03:34:19 < qyx> oh this is becoming interesting
2020-04-15T03:34:30 < aandrew> no
2020-04-15T03:34:35 < aandrew> I gotta stop talking about it
2020-04-15T03:34:37 < qyx> any O2/N2 paper I may look at?
2020-04-15T03:34:39 < aandrew> I *have* to focus on BLE shits
2020-04-15T03:34:41 < qyx> nda'd?
2020-04-15T03:34:45 < aandrew> nope
2020-04-15T03:35:08 < aandrew> I took like $13k of this company's money so far and have provided nothing, I should make some work for them before they get upset
2020-04-15T03:35:19 < aandrew> and $22k of another company's money but I have done some work for them :-)
2020-04-15T03:35:52 < qyx> I may take some from you if you feel you have too much
2020-04-15T03:36:12 < Laurenceb> lol sounds like uni project
2020-04-15T03:36:22 < aandrew> qyx: for papers: https://52ebad10ee97eea25d5e-d7d40819259e7d3022d9ad53e3694148.ssl.cf3.rackcdn.com/W-Cubic_7500E_DS.pdf is another product that does it
2020-04-15T03:36:22 < Laurenceb> if you could get to crazy accuracy that might work
2020-04-15T03:36:37 < Laurenceb> with a very good absolute pressure and temp sensor
2020-04-15T03:37:00 < Laurenceb> maybe you could make the sound resonate within a mechanical orifice to get higher dispersion
2020-04-15T03:37:11 < aandrew> https://www.diva-portal.org/smash/get/diva2:511270/FULLTEXT01.pdf is a really nice paper that goes into lots of detail for a full anaesthetic distribution machine
2020-04-15T03:37:30 < qyx> thanks
2020-04-15T03:37:32 < Laurenceb> I sense crow-vid-19 megabux project
2020-04-15T03:37:43 < Laurenceb> do you work for Dyson?
2020-04-15T03:37:45 < aandrew> Laurenceb: nah there are literally dozens of papers on this, lots of old patents, it's old hat, but yes it's for covid
2020-04-15T03:38:02 < Laurenceb> aandrew: it sounds tricky to get good accuracy
2020-04-15T03:38:03 < aandrew> personal project though
2020-04-15T03:38:06 < Laurenceb> k
2020-04-15T03:38:45 < aandrew> Laurenceb: not according to the papers I've been reading, I don't quite fully understand how you can be sure that the change in speed is due to O2 conc rising, but I think it's just based on a safe assumption 
2020-04-15T03:39:04 < aandrew> i.e. you know the pressure, the temp and what normal speed in air is like
2020-04-15T03:39:06 < Laurenceb> hmm
2020-04-15T03:39:15 < Laurenceb> I guess pressure has little effect on it
2020-04-15T03:39:25 < Laurenceb> so maybe you only need high accuracy absolute temp
2020-04-15T03:39:28 < lux> iirc humidity does
2020-04-15T03:39:31 < Laurenceb> maybe a pt100
2020-04-15T03:39:33 < Laurenceb> ah yeah
2020-04-15T03:39:35 < Laurenceb> nasty
2020-04-15T03:39:47 < aandrew> so any change in speed when the other variables are fixed and considering this is hanging off of some N2 adsorption containers means the change is due to O2 rising
2020-04-15T03:39:47 < Laurenceb> humidity is hard to accuately measure
2020-04-15T03:40:17 < aandrew> well you dry the air first of course, because the zeolite does not like moisure to start with
2020-04-15T03:40:24 < aandrew> why is humidity hard to measure?
2020-04-15T03:40:52 < Laurenceb> the sensors tend to be inaccurate
2020-04-15T03:40:53 < aandrew> there are dozens of cheap-ass I2C devices that do it (and a previous project I mapped them out and it seems there's only like 2 or 3 silicon vendors that everyone else is relabeling)
2020-04-15T03:41:01 < Laurenceb> >claim to do it
2020-04-15T03:41:08 < aandrew> fair point
2020-04-15T03:41:44 < Laurenceb> but yeah time to do the numbers
2020-04-15T03:42:11 < aandrew> no, time to do the BLE shits
2020-04-15T03:42:22 < aandrew> I'll have to come back to this after I've made a few deliverables
2020-04-15T03:43:33 < Laurenceb> oh hang on
2020-04-15T03:43:46 < Laurenceb> this thing has full adc performance on 1.8v
2020-04-15T03:43:50 < Laurenceb> now that is useful
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2020-04-15T03:51:10 < logicp> I have 2 boards - STM32NUCLEO-F746ZG and STM32NUCLEO-F031K6, and I haven't been able to get them to mount on a Linux (Manjaro) system via USB
2020-04-15T03:51:32 < karlp> are you trying to use the mbed bootloader?
2020-04-15T03:52:25 < logicp> No, I tried using MCU Eclipse configured to use openocd, as well as STM32CubeIDE, which I assumed would work just out of the box
2020-04-15T03:52:48 < logicp> I wasn't trying to use the mbed stuff specifically, though a number of different libraries were included in the projects (for example, HAL)
2020-04-15T03:53:04 < karlp> so wh en yhou say "mount" you just mean "can I use the built in usb connected stlink" not "mount" per se?
2020-04-15T03:53:25 < karlp> has this ever worked for you? or is this your first time?
2020-04-15T03:53:36 < karlp> you are probably lakcing permissions on the usb devices,
2020-04-15T03:53:47 < karlp> cubeide might not hvae known how "manjaro" whatever that is works
2020-04-15T03:53:55 < logicp> yes, well even just to be able to see ANY device get added in /dev.. or an anonymous USB device when I use the lsusb command
2020-04-15T03:54:10 < logicp> it hasn't worked for me yet, no
2020-04-15T03:54:11 < karlp> if you don't see an stlink in lsusb then  you have bigger problems
2020-04-15T03:54:22 < logicp> it must be permissions.. maybe the udev rules don't apply to my devices
2020-04-15T03:54:24 < karlp> which usb port ont the board did you connect to?
2020-04-15T03:55:00 < logicp> oh my goodness, you're right.. there rae 2 on my 144 board (the F7)
2020-04-15T03:55:12 < logicp> the other tiny one has only one USB port though
2020-04-15T03:55:17 < logicp> I will try that second port on the 144 right now :)
2020-04-15T03:55:53 < karlp> the one you want should have some silk like "usb-stlk"
2020-04-15T03:55:55 < karlp> "cn1"
2020-04-15T03:56:15 < karlp> the step 2 on the getting started on the back of the blister pack says which port to use...
2020-04-15T04:02:00 < Laurenceb> >Chopper stage
2020-04-15T04:02:09 < Laurenceb> its not looking good
2020-04-15T04:02:14 < logicp> I just went through it again to be sure.. everything seems to be configured right
2020-04-15T04:02:27 < logicp> but my LD4 LED blinks slowly
2020-04-15T04:02:27 < karlp> is the usb cable plugged in at the other end?
2020-04-15T04:02:46 < logicp> it's plugged into CN1
2020-04-15T04:02:50 < karlp> if you don't have an stlink in lsusb, you're not there yet.
2020-04-15T04:03:28 < karlp> though, if your distro is shitty, and your f7 nucleo is new enough you might have a stlinkv3, but you should still see the device without text
2020-04-15T04:04:03 < logicp> hmm.. well I didn't configure the dev rules myself, I just installed the stlink repo from the distro
2020-04-15T04:04:20 < logicp> but maybe this board is newer than any corresponding to thos erules
2020-04-15T04:04:55 < karlp> do you see a device come and go when you plug it in via lsusb?
2020-04-15T04:05:00 < karlp> what's it's vid:pid?
2020-04-15T04:05:21 < logicp> no, I see literally no change at all
2020-04-15T04:05:23 < logicp> same number of devices
2020-04-15T04:05:30 < karlp> then you have wayyyy bigger issues
2020-04-15T04:05:39 < karlp> permissions to access still need the device to exist
2020-04-15T04:05:55 < karlp> are you plugged into a usb port on the same computer? not just a power supply or anything?
2020-04-15T04:06:16 < logicp> yes definitely a USB port which I use regularly
2020-04-15T04:06:21 < logicp> my arduino certainly appears as a device when using it
2020-04-15T04:06:23  * karlp shrugs
2020-04-15T04:06:29 < Laurenceb> aandrew: I dont think G4 is useful for you
2020-04-15T04:06:36 < karlp> is manjaro anything special?
2020-04-15T04:06:40 < logicp> shiznits
2020-04-15T04:06:43 < karlp> is it "secure" or something?
2020-04-15T04:07:04 < Laurenceb> sounds like a mexican gang
2020-04-15T04:07:05 < logicp> I like pacman and the newer versions of everything when compared to ubuntu
2020-04-15T04:07:08 < logicp> hehe
2020-04-15T04:07:28 < logicp> I'll try some other machines.. I have a bloody mac as well
2020-04-15T04:07:50 < karlp> so unplug; lsusb > before; plug; lsusb > after; diff -u before after shows _nothing_ ?
2020-04-15T04:12:03 < logicp> yeah literally the same, every character
2020-04-15T04:12:13 < logicp> same thing on another machine with Ubuntu 16
2020-04-15T04:12:50 < logicp> I have another machine with mint and also manjaro (but a bit different)
2020-04-15T04:18:38 < karlp> ok... so, you get a difference when you plug  in your arduino there right?
2020-04-15T04:20:49 < Laurenceb> aandrew: ok I read the paper, looks like they let the wavepacket bounce back and forth across the chamber a load of times
2020-04-15T04:21:22 < Laurenceb> looks like you could get highish accuracy with a pt100 and measuring a load of resonance
2020-04-15T04:22:22 < logicp> yes the arduino registers and I get a ttyUSB0 device
2020-04-15T04:22:53 < karlp> I'm not asking about the ttyusb0 device, you won't get one of those from an stlink
2020-04-15T04:23:38 < logicp> yes, but I mean I can see the specific device getting added
2020-04-15T04:23:45 < logicp> there is one additional device, as expected
2020-04-15T04:23:51 < logicp> not the case with either of the stm boards
2020-04-15T04:24:15 < karlp> so earlier, when you said, "literelly the same" you literally were _not_ doing what I asked? :)
2020-04-15T04:25:06 < logicp> I was comparing ` plugged : unplugged`
2020-04-15T04:25:14 < logicp> just with one board
2020-04-15T04:25:20 < karlp> with lsusb? or looking for some 7dev/ttyUSBx?
2020-04-15T04:25:27 < logicp> with lsusb
2020-04-15T04:25:49 < karlp> well, until you get an stlink in lsusb, you've got problems I can't help you with
2020-04-15T04:25:57 < karlp> ask cracki, he's helpful.
2020-04-15T04:26:00 < logicp> yeah I guess so :/
2020-04-15T04:26:17 < logicp> I will keep my eye out for cracki
2020-04-15T04:26:28 < logicp> oh he's there
2020-04-15T04:28:00 < Laurenceb> aandrew: if the temperature is below 35C, then humidity might only cause a +-2% error on O2
2020-04-15T04:28:55 < aandrew> Laurenceb: is my understanding about this only really working to "detect" O2 because there are a certain number of assumptions being made?
2020-04-15T04:29:25 < aandrew> i.e. the source gas mixture is N2/O2, the temp is fixed, etc.?
2020-04-15T04:30:21 < aandrew> then it's just saying "well if we assume the two (main) gasses in this mixture are N2 and O2, we can use the molar mass for each to compute what the speed of travel must be to cross this fixed distance" ?
2020-04-15T04:31:13 < Laurenceb> yeah
2020-04-15T04:31:21 < Laurenceb> its measuring the molar mass of the gas
2020-04-15T04:31:44 < Laurenceb> so if you know the input is air and then O2 is added, you can calculate how much O2 is there
2020-04-15T04:31:52 < Laurenceb> if you ignore water vapour
2020-04-15T04:32:15 < aandrew> right
2020-04-15T04:32:15 < Laurenceb> which is probably acceptable unless you are in really nasty humid tropical conditions
2020-04-15T04:32:47 < aandrew> ok, I was driving myself crazy trying to figur eout how they can say "this speed change is due to added O2" but if you make a bunch of assumptions then it's the only logical conclusion
2020-04-15T04:33:54 < Laurenceb> if looks to me like they drive one transducer with a fairly short pwm pulse
2020-04-15T04:34:30 < Laurenceb> then there is another sensor facing it, and the ultrasound bounces back and forth about 8 times
2020-04-15T04:35:16 < Laurenceb> so they can get very accurate timing 
2020-04-15T04:35:26 < Laurenceb> but it would take a bit of processing...
2020-04-15T04:35:43 < Laurenceb> I guess measure the phase change per transit
2020-04-15T04:36:13 < Laurenceb> I wonder if you could save money by using a single transducer facing a block of aluminium
2020-04-15T04:36:17 < aandrew> yeah
2020-04-15T04:36:32 < Laurenceb> then you could need to swap over from the high voltage driver to the amplifier and adc
2020-04-15T04:36:32 < aandrew> or a single transducer just facing a flat cap on the other end of the measuring tube
2020-04-15T04:36:39 < Laurenceb> yeah
2020-04-15T04:36:58 < Laurenceb> the switch electronics may well cost more than another transducer
2020-04-15T04:37:26 < aandrew> right
2020-04-15T04:37:33 < Laurenceb> unless maybe you could drive the transducer with a few volts only
2020-04-15T04:37:44 < Laurenceb> it would depend how well the preamp worked...
2020-04-15T04:37:54 < Laurenceb> prob calls for a breadboard prototype
2020-04-15T04:38:06 < Laurenceb> or more like stripboard+discovery board
2020-04-15T04:38:16 < Laurenceb> breadboard parasitic capacitance might kill it
2020-04-15T04:38:27  * Laurenceb zzz
2020-04-15T04:38:29 < Laurenceb> have fun
2020-04-15T04:38:37 < aandrew> thanks, 'night
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2020-04-15T06:59:13 < englishman> oh this is neat
2020-04-15T06:59:25 < englishman> apollo 13 had a failure in one of the lunar module batteries
2020-04-15T06:59:42 < englishman> it failed short, and due to the overcurrent damaged the malfunction detection circuitry
2020-04-15T06:59:59 < englishman> so it had spurious warnings, but everything looked fine
2020-04-15T07:00:05 < englishman> even though it had failed short and exploded
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2020-04-15T12:01:38 < Cracki> who the fuck sent "logicp" to bother me
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2020-04-15T12:12:10 < Steffanx> haha karlp's revenge.
2020-04-15T12:18:17 < Cracki> revenge for what, he is keeps being salty for no reason
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2020-04-15T12:19:59 < PaulFertser> wtf happened to thingiverse, damn javascript
2020-04-15T12:32:49  * karlp giggles
2020-04-15T12:44:18  * jpa- is now even more careful around karlp
2020-04-15T12:46:55 < karlp> so, did logicp ever work out how to plug it in?
2020-04-15T12:56:06 < PaulFertser> I guess it's constant everyday exposure to a salty wind, should be enough of a reason!
2020-04-15T12:57:20 < Cracki> psychopathic behavior is one thing, people being ok with it is another
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2020-04-15T15:08:35 < onio> Can anyone here please help see description text https://paste.ubuntu.com/p/WFMb2Dc7dw/ my driver here https://paste.ubuntu.com/p/WXhFfHkRrt/
2020-04-15T15:20:42 < jpa-> onio: sounds like you are writing the tx data too late
2020-04-15T15:24:34 < jpa-> onio: reference manual page 1967 (Slave transmitter) makes it sound like you should write first tx byte already at the end of last transmission, though I think you might get away with writing it on ADDR interrupt also if your interrupt latency is low enough
2020-04-15T15:26:41 < onio> jpa-, thanks for responding, the problem is I don't know what to write until I receive the data from master
2020-04-15T15:28:04 < onio> also when I look at the txbuf which I use for debug I can see the correct entries
2020-04-15T15:28:32 < jpa-> well, the reception from master is "last transfer" in that case
2020-04-15T15:28:52 < jpa-> so you can write the first byte on the STOP / repeated START of that transfer
2020-04-15T15:32:07 < onio> I am listening to a webiner at the moment would try later on. Thanks
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2020-04-15T16:28:49 < karlp> springtime: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SU211O9HxTo
2020-04-15T16:33:47 < sync> pretty good although I have no idea what the noises wanted to tell me
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2020-04-15T16:48:21 < Steffanx> Sync have some more spring noises: https://youtu.be/YsJp101ArnQ?t=199
2020-04-15T17:03:28 < zyp> Steffanx, https://bin.jvnv.net/file/gJlfj.jpg
2020-04-15T17:04:08 < Steffanx> haha the best
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2020-04-15T17:06:02 < Steffanx> Hmm, i cannot find those in dutchland
2020-04-15T17:07:00 < Steffanx> They're not even listed on the manufacturer's website
2020-04-15T17:07:15 < Thorn> moneyed westerners
2020-04-15T17:07:19 < Thorn> $3.50 for 128g
2020-04-15T17:08:24 < Steffanx> Yeah, the bigger ones are like 1.20 - 1.39 euro bucks for 320g
2020-04-15T17:08:36 < Steffanx> Dont forget it's import and .. norway
2020-04-15T17:22:34 < englishman> counterfeit waffel
2020-04-15T17:24:36 < Thorn> self-isolated woman infected with CoV via groceries dropped off at her door by a CoV-positive neighbour
2020-04-15T17:27:41 < BrainDamage> unusual musicspam https://invidio.us/watch?v=9aCFKV3Pso4&local=true&quality=dash
2020-04-15T17:27:49 < PaulFertser> btw, measured how much tea it takes for a single session. 15 g. So 454 g might not be enough for "half a year".
2020-04-15T17:28:28 < BrainDamage> how much is the cost per serving?
2020-04-15T17:31:27 < Steffanx> 15g?
2020-04-15T17:32:03 < Steffanx> that website doesnt want to load for me
2020-04-15T17:32:45 < Thorn> I use 7g of sencha per brewing, can last for up to 2 days
2020-04-15T17:33:23 < BrainDamage> Steffanx: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9aCFKV3Pso4
2020-04-15T17:33:33 < Steffanx> yeah i googled the id
2020-04-15T17:34:15 < Steffanx> Ill play it at 2x speed :P
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2020-04-15T17:43:40 < PaulFertser> BrainDamage: so about 1.47 EUR 
2020-04-15T17:49:31 < Steffanx> Do you serve your tea like this PaulFertser? http://www.joeydevilla.com/wordpress/wp-content/uploads/2009/06/tea-serving-skills.jpg 
2020-04-15T17:50:50 < PaulFertser> :D
2020-04-15T17:58:36 < PaulFertser> BrainDamage: what about your servings?
2020-04-15T17:59:19 < PaulFertser> (and most of the time I'm not drinking tea alone so it's 1.5 / 2 per serving actually)
2020-04-15T18:00:12 < BrainDamage> I make about 0.5L day with 2 teaspoons, I should weight them
2020-04-15T18:05:29 < aandrew> morning
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2020-04-15T18:40:55 < karlp> logicp: it's always good to share when you solve something by the way :)
2020-04-15T18:41:09 < karlp> (logicp's problem last night was a cable that was power only, no usb lines)
2020-04-15T18:48:45 < sync> nice boiiiiiing noises Steffanx
2020-04-15T19:04:45 < Steffanx> Lol someone else had the power only issue too a few weeks ago
2020-04-15T19:07:13 < Laurenceb> the britbong gov has done it
2020-04-15T19:07:22 < Laurenceb> they have created a care worker mascot
2020-04-15T19:07:30 < Laurenceb> how will coronavirus recover from this
2020-04-15T19:09:35 < Steffanx> Does it come with a baloon tie?
2020-04-15T19:09:42 < Laurenceb> sheet
2020-04-15T19:09:48 < Laurenceb> that could be my new jerb
2020-04-15T19:10:01 < Laurenceb> anti coronavirus mascot guy
2020-04-15T19:10:41 < Laurenceb> >walk around shouting slogans liek "wash ur hands" "support care workers"
2020-04-15T19:11:01 < Laurenceb> career future status: sorted
2020-04-15T19:12:25 < BrainDamage> here they do that with traveling cars
2020-04-15T19:12:29 < BrainDamage> it's faster
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2020-04-15T19:13:37 < Laurenceb> yeah but is it a "branded mascot"
2020-04-15T19:13:50 < Laurenceb> which is literally what uk gov announced
2020-04-15T19:14:35 < Laurenceb> aandrew: I was thinking about ur ultrasound thing
2020-04-15T19:14:42 < Laurenceb> I think I have an idea...
2020-04-15T19:15:09 < Laurenceb> adc with dma, then grab the samples from around the middle of each wavepacket bounce
2020-04-15T19:15:24 < Laurenceb>  - so just use hardcoded offsets into the buffer 
2020-04-15T19:15:55 < Laurenceb> then multiply+accumulate each wavepacket bounce by sin/cos lookup table
2020-04-15T19:16:20 < Laurenceb> and find phase+amplitude of each bounce
2020-04-15T19:16:29 < Cracki> wat r u innovating
2020-04-15T19:16:42 < Laurenceb> then take amplitude weighted average phase change between bounces
2020-04-15T19:16:49 < Laurenceb> to find sound velocity
2020-04-15T19:17:20 < Laurenceb> Cracki: aandrew is making an ultrasonic O2 meter for coronavirus kit
2020-04-15T19:17:33 < Cracki> ooh
2020-04-15T19:18:00 < Laurenceb> I was just trying to come up with something simple that would work well on F3 or equivalent...
2020-04-15T19:18:38 < Laurenceb> you could use pwm to drive the output transducer then dma for the adc, so it all has relaxed timing requirements for the processor
2020-04-15T19:18:49 < Cracki> wait, this is about blood, right? o2 saturation changes speed of sound of blood?
2020-04-15T19:18:57 < Cracki> measurably?
2020-04-15T19:19:02 < Laurenceb> maybe a H bridge ic to drive the transducer... maybe if its fast enough
2020-04-15T19:19:18 < Laurenceb> Cracki: nah this is part of control loop for respirator hardware
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2020-04-15T19:19:53 < Cracki> ah
2020-04-15T19:20:09 < Laurenceb> Cracki: short wavepacket bounces between two transducers through the gas
2020-04-15T19:20:23 < Laurenceb> sound velocity changes with molecular mass and temperature
2020-04-15T19:20:27 < Cracki> eh, same thing. how much does speed of sound change in nitrogen atmosphere with oxygen content?
2020-04-15T19:20:44 < Cracki> so you need temp and pressure too
2020-04-15T19:20:52 < Cracki> but those don't vary much
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2020-04-15T19:21:54 < Laurenceb> pressure has little effect
2020-04-15T19:22:18 < Laurenceb> and unless ur in a really hot humid place humidity only causes ~+-2% error
2020-04-15T19:22:39 < Laurenceb> so you can do it ok with a good temperature sensor in the gas chamber
2020-04-15T19:22:41 < Cracki> lungs are hot and humid
2020-04-15T19:22:55 < Laurenceb> aiui this is from the gas generator outlet
2020-04-15T19:23:02 < Cracki> ic
2020-04-15T19:23:11 < Laurenceb> so air mixed with O2 supply goes to the valve system that feeds the mask
2020-04-15T19:23:56 < Laurenceb> and this sensor regulates the O2 valve
2020-04-15T19:30:27 < boddax_> speaking of pressure who got experience with IS sensor for negative pressure air vacuum?
2020-04-15T19:30:34 < boddax_> *IC
2020-04-15T19:31:26 < boddax_> to tune motors carburetor
2020-04-15T19:31:53 < Laurenceb> you mean actual car sensors?
2020-04-15T19:33:05 < boddax_> is ok as long measuring airflow range -2 or -3 bars
2020-04-15T19:33:52 < Laurenceb> thats a lot of pressure
2020-04-15T19:34:04 < PaulFertser> Laurenceb: you know motorbikes have a carb per cylinder and so you need to sync them...
2020-04-15T19:34:32 < Laurenceb> ah
2020-04-15T19:34:43 < boddax_> exactly PaulFertser to tune all the same airflow cylinders
2020-04-15T19:35:53 < aandrew> hm, apparently stm32h7 also has these high res timers
2020-04-15T19:36:01 < boddax_> -1.5 i think is enough for many cases
2020-04-15T19:36:03 < PaulFertser> boddax_: 10^-2 you mean?
2020-04-15T19:36:39 < BrainDamage> why independent ones?
2020-04-15T19:36:42 < boddax_> i mean pressure bar unit 
2020-04-15T19:37:00 < aandrew> Laurenceb: interesting, you don't think I can just do this digitally with time of flight?
2020-04-15T19:37:01 < boddax_> yes 4 cylinders need 4 sensors
2020-04-15T19:37:22 < PaulFertser> boddax_: but pressure can't be negative by definition...
2020-04-15T19:37:27 < aandrew> actually this isn't for arespirator at all, this is for o2 concentrator
2020-04-15T19:37:49 < Laurenceb> aandrew: I think you prob need analogue with lots of sampling to get high accuracy
2020-04-15T19:38:03 < boddax_> lol cylynders collectors has aspiration
2020-04-15T19:38:03 < Laurenceb> but thats no issue on something like an F3
2020-04-15T19:38:35 < Laurenceb> aandrew: I dont think the high res timers are that useful
2020-04-15T19:38:44 < aandrew> pair of zeolite filled chambers that dry air is alternatively pumped through. when A is "forward" it is absorbing N2 and passing O2 into the collection vessel and B is "backward", recharging the zeolite, then the valves swap and the chambers reverse orientation
2020-04-15T19:38:45 < BrainDamage> boddax_: you cannot go less than no atoms and that's 0 pressure
2020-04-15T19:38:56 < boddax_> then one direction airflow pressure
2020-04-15T19:39:09 < Laurenceb> aandrew: nice, but how do you get rid of the N2?
2020-04-15T19:39:11 < Laurenceb> heater?
2020-04-15T19:39:14 < boddax_> there is analogic mechanic tool
2020-04-15T19:39:18 < BrainDamage> differential pressure can go negative
2020-04-15T19:39:20 < PaulFertser> BrainDamage: probably space constraints do not allow a big enough inlet so that it's all evenly distributed?
2020-04-15T19:39:32 < aandrew> Laurenceb: you purge it by backflowing 
2020-04-15T19:39:38  * Laurenceb confused
2020-04-15T19:39:41 < aandrew> Laurenceb: just like rinsing water softener zeolite
2020-04-15T19:39:49 < Laurenceb> hmm
2020-04-15T19:40:01 < Laurenceb> there has to be a way to flush the N2 out
2020-04-15T19:40:17 < boddax_> https://images-na.ssl-images-amazon.com/images/I/715Mty9HrDL._AC_SX679_.jpg
2020-04-15T19:42:25 < BrainDamage> aandrew: what do you use to purge it though? the accumulated o2?
2020-04-15T19:43:21 < Laurenceb> this sounds like a violation of the second law of thermodynamics
2020-04-15T19:44:49 < BrainDamage> the work comes from the pump
2020-04-15T19:44:55 < BrainDamage> so it's not violating it
2020-04-15T19:45:16 < Laurenceb> I guess if you lower the pressure to flush out the gasses
2020-04-15T19:45:25 < Laurenceb> and it preferentially absorbs N2
2020-04-15T19:45:54 < BrainDamage> what I'm wondering more is how much gas it needs to flush it out
2020-04-15T19:52:45 < aandrew> Laurenceb: the purge cycle pushes O2-rich gas backward through the zeolite to flush it out
2020-04-15T19:53:32 < jpa-> Laurenceb: yeah, it is pressure-dependent
2020-04-15T19:53:42 < jpa-> increase pressure to absorb N2, lower pressure to purge it
2020-04-15T19:54:08 < aandrew> basically the cycle is air -> A -> C for 8-12 seconds, then air -> A -> backward B -> exhaust for 2-3s, then reverse: air -> B -> C for 8-12, then air -> B -> backward A -> exhaust for 2-3s, repeat
2020-04-15T19:54:45 < jpa-> but yeah, it uses low-pressure O2 for the purge, and because it is low-pressure you use less O2 to purge than you created during the high-pressure phase
2020-04-15T19:54:47 < aandrew> since the gas flowing backward is already nitrogen-poor the zeolite is not absorbing much and the flow flushes it
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2020-04-15T20:06:46 < Ultrasauce> https://www.aliexpress.com/item/10000004036730.html stm32 spotted
2020-04-15T20:07:43 < englishman> more like GD32 spotted
2020-04-15T20:08:21 < englishman> nvm it actually says ST lol
2020-04-15T20:09:41 < englishman> theres so many clones now
2020-04-15T20:09:50 < englishman> https://lcsc.com/product-detail/New-Arrivals_HK-HK32F103C8T6_C482563.html
2020-04-15T20:09:53 < englishman> https://lcsc.com/product-detail/Other-Processors-and-Microcontrollers-MCUs_APEXMIC-APM32F103C8T6_C393540.html
2020-04-15T20:09:56 < englishman> https://lcsc.com/product-detail/Microprocessor-Microcontroller_Shenzhen-Better-Life-Elec-S-T-BLM32F103C8T6_C90410.html
2020-04-15T20:10:00 < englishman> https://lcsc.com/product-detail/Microprocessor-Microcontroller_MindMotion-Microelectronics-MM32F103C8T6_C212243.html
2020-04-15T20:10:23 < englishman> black lives matter 32
2020-04-15T20:11:00 < Mangy_Dog> im still waiting for my replacment order to turn up
2020-04-15T20:11:22 < englishman> and you know what
2020-04-15T20:11:31 < Mangy_Dog> its in the uk now so any day now
2020-04-15T20:11:32 < englishman> of the 6 total 32F103C8T6 available
2020-04-15T20:11:35 < englishman> the STM is out of stock
2020-04-15T20:11:42 < Mangy_Dog> ill go straight with teh acetone test to see if they demark
2020-04-15T20:17:27 < onio> jpa-, hey your recommendation of sending "first byte on the STOP / repeated START of that transfer" works. Thanks 
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2020-04-15T20:18:46 < jpa-> onio: :)
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2020-04-15T20:29:09 < englishman> demoscene now officially part of finland's heritage
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2020-04-15T20:39:36 < bitmask> macbook screen arrived, too bad the screwdriver bits havent yet...
2020-04-15T20:39:56 < ds2> bitmask: are they pentalobe?
2020-04-15T20:40:02 < bitmask> yup
2020-04-15T20:40:18 < jpa-> i always get free screwdrivers whenever i buy macbook battery or screen :P
2020-04-15T20:40:19 < bitmask> bastards
2020-04-15T20:40:23 < ds2> drill out and replace with torx? :D
2020-04-15T20:40:35 < bitmask> I can wait a couple days, already been over a month
2020-04-15T20:41:24 < bitmask> screen looks beautiful though, I dont think they were lying when they said brand new
2020-04-15T20:44:46 < bitmask> makes me want to replace the bottom aluminum body
2020-04-15T20:44:56 < bitmask> but no way im doing that, just want to :P
2020-04-15T20:45:15 < jpa-> try throwing a magnet at it, perhaps it will help
2020-04-15T20:47:18 < bitmask> haha oh you... 
2020-04-15T20:51:30 < catphish> right, this is driving me mildly insane, can someone please put me out of my misery and tell me what to build? i need to take a 12-14v input (lead acid + charger), and power 2 things: a 5-14v RFID reader (current unspecified), an stm32 (<100mA @ 3v3), a KSZ8081RNA (<50mA @ 3v3) and a couple of LEDs.
2020-04-15T20:51:31 < catphish> i can likely power the reader directly from the power supply, it recommends a LDO for stability, but almost certainy contains its own since all its outputs are 5v. the 3v3 i have no idea what to do, a large 3v3 LDO will probably be fine, i would prefer to achieve all this with jlcpcb stocked parts. would would jesus do?
2020-04-15T20:53:46 < mawk> jesus would give me a heap of cash
2020-04-15T20:56:02 < boddax_> all togheter falling from sky coin format
2020-04-15T20:56:57 < catphish> simple lazy design: https://nutty.tk/accesscontrol.pdf
2020-04-15T20:57:15 < catphish> but if i need to do better, i will need help!
2020-04-15T20:57:56 < boddax_> what kind of ferrite ?
2020-04-15T20:58:55 < catphish> me? i don't think it matters much
2020-04-15T21:02:06 < boddax_> then share your project github to be helped
2020-04-15T21:02:39 < catphish> i only just learned you're not supposed to connect ceramic caps to the output of linregs, needs more ESR
2020-04-15T21:03:51 < catphish> boddax_: good idea :)
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2020-04-15T21:04:24 < boddax_> lets do that a lot of unexpected help
2020-04-15T21:05:56 < boddax_> but what doing this hw ?:P
2020-04-15T21:07:07 < catphish> it's a building access controller
2020-04-15T21:07:37 < catphish> give it some card numbers via ethernet, and it'll unlock the door when they're seen
2020-04-15T21:09:15 < friendofafriend> hehehehe, perfect >:}
2020-04-15T21:09:20 < jpa-> catphish: modern LDOs handle ceramic caps just fine
2020-04-15T21:10:07 < boddax_> isnt that if you loop td with rd then open the door :)
2020-04-15T21:11:02 < jpa-> catphish: if you are fine with putting out ~1.5W as heat, the 1117 LDO is fine and pretty foolproof approach - and if this is going outside, a bit of heat might be good
2020-04-15T21:12:03 < catphish> jpa-: yeah, i was a little unsure how problematic 1.5W of heat would be
2020-04-15T21:12:13 < ds2> or use a LDO that is unconditionally stable
2020-04-15T21:12:23 < mawk> cloudflare is giving a cloudflare error page
2020-04-15T21:12:25 < mawk> cloudflareception
2020-04-15T21:12:35 < catphish> i spent hours looking at LDOs last night, and still have no idea what i'm doing
2020-04-15T21:12:57 < catphish> is there a 3v3 LDO that is just good?
2020-04-15T21:13:07 < mawk> there is a list of ldos in the topic no ?
2020-04-15T21:13:11 < mawk> the second link
2020-04-15T21:13:13 < catphish> something that can handle 200mA and 20v without whining?
2020-04-15T21:13:40 < ds2> depends on how much DO can you accept
2020-04-15T21:13:52 < catphish> this one? https://github.com/karlp/zypsnips/blob/master/sot23-5.ldos.dongs
2020-04-15T21:13:53 < jpa-> catphish: http://www.ti.com/design-resources/design-tools-simulation/models-simulators/pcb-thermal-calculator.html  will tell you how much copper area you need to keep it cool; that is, 5x5 cm should be ok
2020-04-15T21:14:07 < jpa-> catphish: sot23-5 package won't be able to handle that kind of heat
2020-04-15T21:14:37 < mawk> are you okay with the wasted power also catphish ?
2020-04-15T21:14:42 < boddax_> accurate termal pad maybe can hold it
2020-04-15T21:14:46 < mawk> not for the heat, but for the energy out of your battery
2020-04-15T21:15:09 < jpa-> 1117 is one of the few that is suitable LDOs for such a large input->output drop, most other ones are designed for smaller drops because people use buck converters for larger drops
2020-04-15T21:15:13 < mawk> you're throwing away quite a lot it's a shame
2020-04-15T21:15:18 < mawk> heating the birds
2020-04-15T21:15:26 < catphish> mawk: well, it's not ideal
2020-04-15T21:15:37 < jpa-> ah yeah, battery operated, then go for buck
2020-04-15T21:15:43 < mawk> you have switched regulators like buck convertors
2020-04-15T21:16:05 < catphish> it's also powering a 600mA electromagnet, so overall it's still a significant loss
2020-04-15T21:16:08 < jpa-> https://jlcpcb.com/parts/componentSearch?searchTxt=dc-dc   any of those should work, datasheets have basic designs you can copy
2020-04-15T21:16:14 < boddax_> like a laptop circuit
2020-04-15T21:16:47 < catphish> jpa-: interesting, wonder why i haven't done that
2020-04-15T21:16:52 < catphish> i'll give it a try again
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2020-04-15T21:18:30 < ds2> what kind of battery ?
2020-04-15T21:18:58 < catphish> 12v lead acid
2020-04-15T21:19:19 < catphish> it's a pretty low tech setup
2020-04-15T21:19:39 < ds2> if you want linear, even a classic LM317 would work
2020-04-15T21:19:50 < ds2> and that is stable with almost any output
2020-04-15T21:19:55 < ds2> no need for a LDO
2020-04-15T21:21:04 < Streaker> lead acid battery wont last long with a constant drain like LM317. either the battry should be on a trickle charger or use a switching power supply.
2020-04-15T21:21:55 < ds2> that's different from LDO or not... that's low Iq
2020-04-15T21:22:40 < catphish> there is a 600mA electromagnet hanging off it, so it's not going to last that long anyway
2020-04-15T21:22:55 < jpa-> catphish: constantly powered?
2020-04-15T21:22:59 < catphish> yes
2020-04-15T21:23:01 < jpa-> why?
2020-04-15T21:23:16 < ds2> might want to have spike protection on the input of the regulator
2020-04-15T21:23:17 < catphish> that's just how failsafe maglocks work i guess
2020-04-15T21:23:44 < mawk> I thought it was using a normally open magnetic lock
2020-04-15T21:24:00 < jpa-> ah
2020-04-15T21:24:21 < catphish> it's just a big electromagnet, you cut the power, it opens
2020-04-15T21:25:11 < catphish> i've never used an adjustable linreg
2020-04-15T21:25:38 < ds2> how is the electromagnet turned off?
2020-04-15T21:26:20 < catphish> it's just a simple mosfet switch
2020-04-15T21:26:36 -!- Streaker [~Streaker@unaffiliated/streaker] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer]
2020-04-15T21:26:41 < ds2> what does that do with the energy dump?
2020-04-15T21:27:41 < catphish> the magnet itself seems to do some magic that pushes the energy back through itself in reverse and demagnetizes itself
2020-04-15T21:28:17 < jpa-> catphish: what's your Q1 doing, btw?
2020-04-15T21:28:19 < catphish> but i put a diode across it just in case, anything extra should get disapated in the wiring
2020-04-15T21:28:33 < catphish> q1 is just a diode, i've now replaced it with a diode
2020-04-15T21:28:52 < jpa-> ok, if you want to just use parasitic diode in fet, remember to connect gate to source
2020-04-15T21:28:59 < jpa-> otherwise it could randomly start conducting
2020-04-15T21:29:22 < catphish> i didn't know that, will do
2020-04-15T21:29:25 < catphish> but i've removed it now
2020-04-15T21:30:22 < catphish> thanks  all, i'm going to tidy some things up, look at the LM317, look at the adjustible DCDC bucks, and have another go
2020-04-15T21:31:14 < ds2> linear is not efficient, just brain dead simple
2020-04-15T21:31:31 < catphish> indeed
2020-04-15T21:31:51 < catphish> if i can, i'll set up one of those bucks
2020-04-15T21:32:01 -!- c10ud [~c10ud@emesene/dictator/c10ud] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds]
2020-04-15T21:32:25 < catphish> the thing that put me off before was i was looking for a 3v3 part, but i realise now i can use an adjustible one
2020-04-15T21:32:58 < BrainDamage> linear efficiency is dependent on the voltagge drop
2020-04-15T21:33:06 < BrainDamage> if the drop is small, linear can be efficient
2020-04-15T21:33:20 < BrainDamage> also, https://github.com/8051Enthusiast/regex2fat
2020-04-15T21:33:23 < ds2> I'd say more on the current draw
2020-04-15T21:33:35 < ds2> at low currents, linear can be better then switching
2020-04-15T21:34:31 < boddax_> LM2575-3.3WU 
2020-04-15T21:34:39 < catphish> well i have lots of volts and miliamps
2020-04-15T21:34:42 < BrainDamage> you can rewrite linear reg efficiency as Vo/(Vi-Vo)
2020-04-15T21:34:58 < BrainDamage> LM2575-3.3.UWU 
2020-04-15T21:36:55 < catphish> can i feel the output of a switching regulator into an stm32 with no further regulation?
2020-04-15T21:37:24 < BrainDamage> provided it has low enough ripple, sure
2020-04-15T21:38:42 < ds2> Vi-Vo is only a rough estimate.... Iq can be large on some devices
2020-04-15T21:39:01 < ds2> for switching, you got all the various losses at low draw
2020-04-15T21:40:16 < catphish> https://datasheet.lcsc.com/szlcsc/Texas-Instruments-TI-TPS54331DR_C9865.pdf this guy should do
2020-04-15T21:41:39 < catphish> they even have a 3v3 design example :)
2020-04-15T21:43:39 < catphish> the low voltage shutoff is very useful to my application too
2020-04-15T21:43:58 < catphish> i don't want to needlessly destroy the lead acid battery when it gets empty
2020-04-15T21:44:19 < catphish> thanks humans!
2020-04-15T21:44:45 < boddax_> 3.3 zener diode 
2020-04-15T21:45:58 < boddax_> Steffanx busy cooking
2020-04-15T21:46:35 < Steffanx> uh?
2020-04-15T21:48:14 < aandrew> fucking digikey site is acting up
2020-04-15T21:50:21 < kakimir> internets is acting up
2020-04-15T21:51:29 < qyx> mouser was yesterday
2020-04-15T21:52:01 < Steffanx> onho is the innernet broken?
2020-04-15T21:52:58 < kakimir> yes
2020-04-15T21:54:10 < boddax_> there any site that check internat global performances?
2020-04-15T21:56:36 < catphish> there is not
2020-04-15T21:56:46 < kakimir> like a speedtest but for the internets
2020-04-15T22:02:02 < kakimir> measure speeds of atlantic cables etc.
2020-04-15T22:02:28 < kakimir> any big inet infrastructure speed
2020-04-15T22:05:34 < Cracki> anyone know whether electrical motors (brushed dc in particular) have a convention for which way they turn, given + and - are labeled?
2020-04-15T22:05:38 < BrainDamage> the internet is made by the interconnection of backbones of https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Autonomous_system_(Internet)
2020-04-15T22:05:57 < Cracki> I'd have thought it's right hand rule, so ccw, but the motors I have here all do cw
2020-04-15T22:06:47 < kakimir> make a speed test for all of them BrainDamage
2020-04-15T22:06:51 < kakimir> at same time
2020-04-15T22:07:27 < kakimir> from public web interface where you press a speedtest button and internet crashes for few minutes
2020-04-15T22:08:28 < BrainDamage> kakimir: they have to keep statistics of web traffic and loading on their own to do load balancing
2020-04-15T22:08:36 < BrainDamage> to adjust BGP routes
2020-04-15T22:08:52 < BrainDamage> they could publish the info on principle
2020-04-15T22:09:00 < kakimir> can you recommend any wired remote enclosures? with LCD
2020-04-15T22:09:03 < BrainDamage> in practice they have little interest for
2020-04-15T22:09:32 < catphish> it should be the law that all components should have to be added to kicad at launc
2020-04-15T22:09:35 < catphish> *launch
2020-04-15T22:33:13 < zyp> meh
2020-04-15T22:35:51 < Steffanx> law should forbid open sores
2020-04-15T22:38:09 -!- jsoft [~jsoft@unaffiliated/jsoft] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds]
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2020-04-15T23:17:43 < mawk> don't become heer dongs Steffanx 
2020-04-15T23:18:01 < mawk> cloudflare is broken
2020-04-15T23:18:03 < mawk> I told it earlier
2020-04-15T23:18:07 < mawk> but nobody listens to me
2020-04-15T23:18:09  * mawk cries
2020-04-15T23:27:15 < machinehum> ni is fucking cancer
2020-04-15T23:27:24 < Cracki> ni!
2020-04-15T23:27:56 < englishman> what are you talking about labview is the fucking greatest thing ever
2020-04-15T23:28:06 < machinehum> This shit is so unuseable if you don't want to use their box dragging boner labview
2020-04-15T23:28:50 < machinehum> I love how these morons get all their shit working fine in one small case and then ship it
2020-04-15T23:29:06 < machinehum> Just some balls old c lib the segfaults on a 20 line example
2020-04-15T23:29:11 -!- sterna [~Adium@c-cf29235c.016-35-62726f1.bbcust.telenor.se] has joined ##stm32
2020-04-15T23:29:34 < englishman> is there a labview that doesnt involve box dragging?????
2020-04-15T23:29:43 < englishman> are you trying to use it in a 80x60 lunix console?
2020-04-15T23:30:17 < machinehum> No I was forced to use a windows machine, and that shit doesn't even work
2020-04-15T23:30:51 -!- onio [~onio@cpc122394-bmly11-2-0-cust161.2-3.cable.virginm.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving]
2020-04-15T23:31:17 < englishman> sounds like pebkac
2020-04-15T23:31:52 < machinehum> lol
2020-04-15T23:32:20 -!- tonyarkles [~tonyarkle@static24-72-40-127.r.rev.accesscomm.ca] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds]
2020-04-15T23:32:30 < machinehum> https://pythonhosted.org/PyDAQmx/
2020-04-15T23:33:01 < machinehum> That's the problem
2020-04-15T23:33:29 -!- tonyarkles [~tonyarkle@static24-72-40-127.r.rev.accesscomm.ca] has joined ##stm32
2020-04-15T23:35:28 < Cracki> "ANSI C driver"
2020-04-15T23:35:42 < Cracki> sounds simple enough
2020-04-15T23:36:43 -!- Laurenceb [~laurence@223.141.208.46.dyn.plus.net] has joined ##stm32
2020-04-15T23:36:53 < Cracki> not very pythonic though. they make you create a callback ptr object instead of just accepting the python function itself https://pythonhosted.org/PyDAQmx/callback.html
2020-04-15T23:37:55 -!- fc5dc9d4 [~quassel@p57A32A72.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds]
2020-04-15T23:38:42 < Cracki> > © Copyright 2010, Pierre Cladé. Created using Sphinx 1.2.2.
2020-04-15T23:38:49 < Cracki> maybe you need a time machine
2020-04-15T23:41:25 -!- jly [uid355225@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-nljwyudjqppyibhz] has joined ##stm32
2020-04-15T23:43:33 < machinehum> Yes that's part of the problem
2020-04-15T23:43:49 < machinehum> I've used a cwrapper thing
2020-04-15T23:44:00 < machinehum> ctypes is not fun
2020-04-15T23:44:41 < Cracki> eh, it's usable :P what bothers you about it, what should it do differently?
2020-04-15T23:46:15 < machinehum> When you read an input
2020-04-15T23:46:38 < machinehum> You should call a function called read_input(pin)
2020-04-15T23:46:48 < machinehum> and it should return a bool
2020-04-15T23:46:53 < machinehum> If that input it high
2020-04-15T23:47:01 < Cracki> that is pydaqmx's issue
2020-04-15T23:47:56 < machinehum> https://documentation.help/NI-DAQmx-C-Functions/DAQmxReadDigitalLines.html
2020-04-15T23:48:31 < machinehum> Probably, but the clib doesn't make much sense either
2020-04-15T23:49:34 < Cracki> lol
2020-04-15T23:51:26 < Cracki> yes that's the kind of api you need when you need lots of data, not single samples
2020-04-15T23:53:12 < machinehum> boooo where my single sample boyz at?
2020-04-15T23:53:25 -!- fc5dc9d4 [~quassel@p5B3A8D40.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined ##stm32
2020-04-15T23:53:39 < Cracki> diy
2020-04-15T23:55:29 -!- emeb_mac [~ericb@ip68-2-65-72.ph.ph.cox.net] has joined ##stm32
2020-04-15T23:55:59 < catphish> i coped a power supply :) https://nutty.tk/accesscontrol.pdf
2020-04-15T23:57:25 < jly> hi
2020-04-15T23:57:52 < zyp> qyx, looking at some subrack stuff, what size is it you're using?
2020-04-15T23:59:19 < jly> I need a new cat
--- Day changed Thu Apr 16 2020
2020-04-16T00:00:51 < Laurenceb> did you wear out its asshole again?
2020-04-16T00:01:03 < jly> oh my god
2020-04-16T00:02:01 < kakimir> jeez
2020-04-16T00:02:32 < Laurenceb> we are onto the antics of jly now
2020-04-16T00:03:09 < kakimir> what's up Laurenceb?
2020-04-16T00:03:15 < Steffanx> Laurenceb: your mom called. She asked if she could still do an abortion on a kid born 30+ years ago
2020-04-16T00:03:24 < Laurenceb> chillazing in the garden
2020-04-16T00:03:30 < kakimir> is it warm?
2020-04-16T00:03:30 < Laurenceb> listening to neighbours
2020-04-16T00:03:37 < Laurenceb> getting colder :(
2020-04-16T00:03:42 < machinehum> lol
2020-04-16T00:03:58 < jly> lol
2020-04-16T00:04:14 < Laurenceb> >"not racist, I just hate blacks, I just dont like them"
2020-04-16T00:09:19 < kakimir> ofc
2020-04-16T00:10:49 < Laurenceb> coronavirus sucks
2020-04-16T00:11:00 < Laurenceb> I want to be able to troll ppl irl again
2020-04-16T00:12:00 < kakimir> is there someone to stop you?
2020-04-16T00:12:08 < Laurenceb> da po-lice
2020-04-16T00:12:09 < Steffanx> Your russian gf is long gone
2020-04-16T00:12:12 < Laurenceb> ikr
2020-04-16T00:12:27 < kakimir> wear da bobby uniform and go troll
2020-04-16T00:12:34 -!- bvernoux [~Ben@88.120.152.126] has quit [Quit: Leaving]
2020-04-16T00:12:37 < Laurenceb> lulwtf
2020-04-16T00:13:13 < Steffanx> Birth suite, kakimir?
2020-04-16T00:13:14 < kakimir> legal disclaimer: it's a joke
2020-04-16T00:13:22 < Laurenceb> ppl used to wear weird uniforms for final exams...
2020-04-16T00:13:27 < kakimir> but don't get caught
2020-04-16T00:13:44 < Laurenceb> my fried failed his exams because he was wearing a load of sex dolls strapped to himself
2020-04-16T00:14:01 < Laurenceb> and got arrested and put in prison for public obscenity
2020-04-16T00:14:10 < Laurenceb> on his way to final exams
2020-04-16T00:15:03 < Laurenceb> ^my last experience of "uniform" based trolling
2020-04-16T00:24:29 < jly> wut
2020-04-16T00:24:49 < kakimir> sounds bonglandish
2020-04-16T00:25:12 < Laurenceb> it was traditional to do something outrageous for ur final exam
2020-04-16T00:25:25 < Laurenceb> unfortunately the police also knew about this and were lying in wait
2020-04-16T00:25:51 < kakimir> they didn't have anything else to do?
2020-04-16T00:26:14 < Laurenceb> everyone complains about students being offensive and causing trouble
2020-04-16T00:26:19 < Laurenceb> so the police turn up
2020-04-16T00:26:33 < kakimir> what has world become
2020-04-16T00:27:04 < kakimir> your friend is now an alcoholic and a bum because he couldn't get to university?
2020-04-16T00:27:05 < Laurenceb> the previous year a grrl jumped off a bridge naked for the lulz and broke both legs
2020-04-16T00:27:15 < Laurenceb> lol I think he managed to resit the exams
2020-04-16T00:27:16 < jly> what kind of bee produces milk?
2020-04-16T00:28:21 < Laurenceb> a cow bee
2020-04-16T00:28:40 < Steffanx> Booooo-bees 
2020-04-16T00:29:39 < Laurenceb> very good
2020-04-16T00:30:00 < Laurenceb> jly: what is chris-chan up to these days?
2020-04-16T00:30:11 < jly> dudes of all teenages
2020-04-16T00:33:45 < Steffanx> Jly: What is a cat’s favourite movie?
2020-04-16T00:34:34 < jly> probably a cursor moving on the screen
2020-04-16T00:36:33 < Steffanx> The sound of mewsic
2020-04-16T00:36:58 < Steffanx> Hows do cats end a fight?
2020-04-16T00:37:08 < jly> explode
2020-04-16T00:37:39 < Steffanx> They hiss and make up
2020-04-16T00:37:57 < Steffanx> Youre bad at cat jokes moite
2020-04-16T00:38:59 < jly> https://www.news.com.au/national/nsw-act/news/family-of-seven-almost-killed-by-easter-sunday-bug-bomb-explosion/news-story/0823dba71444dcdaddf37df8fdc2a509
2020-04-16T00:39:09 < jly> australia
2020-04-16T00:39:27 < jly> this time it wasn't a meth lab that blew up the family home
2020-04-16T00:43:44 < Mangy_Dog> :o
2020-04-16T00:46:39 -!- Jak_o_Shadows [~Jak@unaffiliated/jak-o-shadows/x-0479135] has joined ##stm32
2020-04-16T00:50:43 < Laurenceb> >Australian family events
2020-04-16T00:50:51 < Laurenceb> >when the family meth lab explodes
2020-04-16T01:01:21 -!- sterna [~Adium@c-cf29235c.016-35-62726f1.bbcust.telenor.se] has quit [Quit: Leaving.]
2020-04-16T01:02:59 -!- c10ud [~c10ud@emesene/dictator/c10ud] has joined ##stm32
2020-04-16T01:07:33 < catphish> yay, feeling much happier with my design now! https://nutty.tk/accesscontrol.pdf    https://imgur.com/a/tFoD4Dk
2020-04-16T01:09:19 < Laurenceb> >accesscontrol
2020-04-16T01:09:28 < Laurenceb> checkin ur loicense
2020-04-16T01:10:57 < catphish> it occurred to me earlier that i'm actually now an employee of someone else's company, so i don't actually own this
2020-04-16T01:11:01 < catphish> pfft
2020-04-16T01:11:29 < catphish> i've gotta start asking permission before i licence shits :(
2020-04-16T01:12:07 < catphish> not that my designs are valuable :)
2020-04-16T01:22:25 -!- catphish [~user@unaffiliated/catphish] has quit [Quit: Leaving]
2020-04-16T01:27:29 -!- catphish [~user@unaffiliated/catphish] has joined ##stm32
2020-04-16T01:27:49 -!- c10ud [~c10ud@emesene/dictator/c10ud] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds]
2020-04-16T01:30:36 -!- bitmask [~bitmask@c-73-215-237-27.hsd1.nj.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: Gone to sleep...]
2020-04-16T01:35:37 < Laurenceb> 1) pay someone via paypal
2020-04-16T01:35:48 < Laurenceb> 2) label it "mafia bribe money"
2020-04-16T01:35:51 < Laurenceb> 3) ???
2020-04-16T01:35:54 < Laurenceb> 4) profit
2020-04-16T01:36:19 < Laurenceb> actually in us apparently you get v& lmao
2020-04-16T01:44:20 < kakimir> v?
2020-04-16T01:50:41 < Cracki> van-ed. you get stuffed in a van and driven away
2020-04-16T01:51:09 < Cracki> boo, dirtypcb cables are MOQ 100
2020-04-16T01:51:54 < Laurenceb> M-32 is also on the hot list
2020-04-16T01:52:20 < Laurenceb> >literally calling ur mafia bride money "mafia bribe money"
2020-04-16T01:53:58 < Cracki> >mafia bride
2020-04-16T01:57:20 < Laurenceb> derp
2020-04-16T01:58:33 < Cracki> name a nation where the natives don't form some kind of mafia
2020-04-16T01:59:40 < catphish> Cracki: UK
2020-04-16T01:59:57 < catphish> i couldn't even identify the natives :)
2020-04-16T02:00:03 < Cracki> lol
2020-04-16T02:00:41 < Cracki> I know the venn diagrams that try to describe you bongs https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gangs_in_the_United_Kingdom
2020-04-16T02:00:52 < catphish> lol
2020-04-16T02:00:55 < Cracki> venn diagrams were invented because of the bongs
2020-04-16T02:03:17 < Cracki> https://i.pinimg.com/originals/76/23/18/7623181a4afe46a2f1d63f4ecd554783.jpg
2020-04-16T02:03:19 < qyx> zyp: 3U is standard, I am using 2U nonstandard
2020-04-16T02:04:11 < zyp> which depth?
2020-04-16T02:04:50 < zyp> as far as I can tell 160mm is standard, and then there's also some 100mm and 70mm guide rails that has bad availability
2020-04-16T02:06:37 < qyx> 70 guide rails are for the rear io modules, which are quite standard
2020-04-16T02:06:43 < qyx> irrespective of that they are badly available as you say
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2020-04-16T02:07:22 < qyx> but many manuacturers make a kind of rails you can shorten to your willing
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2020-04-16T02:07:32 < qyx> 2 end caps and a alu extrusion in the middle
2020-04-16T02:07:43 < zyp> I'm looking at the schroff stuff, I think you mentioned that before
2020-04-16T02:07:48 < qyx> yeah
2020-04-16T02:07:57 < qyx> you can also check fischer elektronik
2020-04-16T02:08:21 < zyp> so anyway, what depth are you targetting again?
2020-04-16T02:08:47 < qyx> https://schroff.nvent.com/wcsstore/ExtendedSitesCatalogAssetStore/Attachment/SchroffAttachments/06_e_subracks.pdf
2020-04-16T02:09:03 < qyx> half-depth of a standard eurocard, 80mm
2020-04-16T02:09:07 < qyx> same as rear io modules
2020-04-16T02:09:19 < qyx> they should be using 70mm rails
2020-04-16T02:09:46 < qyx> I will see when I order the first set, which is about now
2020-04-16T02:09:50 < zyp> right
2020-04-16T02:13:50 < zyp> I looked at some crosspoint switch chips today and then went down the rabbit hole of imagining a subrack system with a backplane with one of those
2020-04-16T02:14:19 < qyx> it would have been ordered by now if I hadn't fell asleep
2020-04-16T02:15:27 < qyx> whats that, a switching matrix?
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2020-04-16T02:15:32 < zyp> yes
2020-04-16T02:15:34 < Steffanx> You fall asleep in front of your pc?
2020-04-16T02:16:06 < zyp> qyx, e.g. these: https://www.microsemi.com/product-directory/signal-integrity/3579-digital-crosspoint-switches
2020-04-16T02:16:16 < qyx> nearly, yesterday it happened with a mouse in my hand
2020-04-16T02:17:13 < qyx> woohoo, can you imagine that power cnsumption?
2020-04-16T02:18:07 < zyp> I don't care about power consumption :)
2020-04-16T02:18:56 < qyx> energized scandianvians
2020-04-16T02:20:52 < zyp> actually, the reason I came across the crosspoint switches in the first place was because I were thinking about how I could sniff e.g. usb3 traffic
2020-04-16T02:21:27 < zyp> and VSC3308 looked like a good candidate
2020-04-16T02:21:59 < zyp> (each input can be routed to more than one output simultaneously)
2020-04-16T02:22:22 < qyx> looks legit
2020-04-16T02:22:48 < zyp> the problem with microsemi is that they don't publish all the documentation
2020-04-16T02:22:52 < qyx> are those subrack and crosspoint things relateD?
2020-04-16T02:23:27 < qyx> I mean, is your usb3 sniffer going to be in a subrack?
2020-04-16T02:25:11 < zyp> no, I was thinking about putting the crosspoint switch on a board with three usb-c connectors; two to pass through traffic and a third that gets a mirrored copy of both directions
2020-04-16T02:25:29 < zyp> and then plug that into some fpga board that has a usb-c connector hooked to the fpga
2020-04-16T02:27:10 < zyp> and after that I went down the rabbit hole of what if I make a crosspoint backplane and stick the fpga board itself in a subrack
2020-04-16T02:28:01 < qyx> yeah I understand now
2020-04-16T02:29:23 < qyx> do you have any particular purpose in mind you are following?
2020-04-16T02:29:28 < qyx> play/devel only?
2020-04-16T02:30:18 < zyp> test equipment
2020-04-16T02:31:27 < qyx> finally a NI replacement
2020-04-16T02:35:37 < jly> m
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2020-04-16T02:57:45 < Steffanx> Jly where is the cat?
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2020-04-16T03:03:19 < karlp> NI replacement hah
2020-04-16T03:03:24 < karlp> like it's ever been about the hardware
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2020-04-16T03:15:40 < Laurenceb> https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1132784350414684161
2020-04-16T03:41:48 < Steffanx> NI software is the best
2020-04-16T03:43:36 < Steffanx> Like how this always running service changes the windows timer frequency
2020-04-16T03:44:02 < Steffanx> Nah it requests it, but Windows usually respects this wish
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2020-04-16T03:45:53 < Steffanx> Someone wrote a nice blog about it once https://randomascii.wordpress.com/2013/07/08/windows-timer-resolution-megawatts-wasted/
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2020-04-16T07:35:15 < PaulFertser> Regarding timers, doesn't windows support tickless?
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2020-04-16T07:48:55 < jadew> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NPEj_VAxPzI
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2020-04-16T12:36:36 < qyx> https://www.sos.sk/products/wiznet/wizfi-630-s-310787
2020-04-16T12:36:38 < qyx> interesting
2020-04-16T12:36:41 < qyx> but 33e
2020-04-16T12:40:04 < Steffanx> heh wiznet is still alive
2020-04-16T12:46:54 < Thorn> what connector is that for
2020-04-16T12:50:33 < qyx> minipcie
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2020-04-16T13:28:46 < Thorn> how do I pass a parameter in openocd from the command line into a script?
2020-04-16T13:28:56 < Thorn> >the command line method has problems with how it treats variables. For example, after -c "set VAR value", or doing the same in a script, the variable VAR will have no value that can be tested in a later script.
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2020-04-16T13:48:49 < PaulFertser> Thorn: -c "set variable value"
2020-04-16T13:48:56 < PaulFertser> Thorn: and it's available inside scripts after that.
2020-04-16T13:49:11 < PaulFertser> Thorn: where is that quote from?
2020-04-16T13:49:21 < Thorn> the manual
2020-04-16T13:50:00 < con3> hmm.. do you guys have any recommended readings on mocking and unit testing?
2020-04-16T13:50:50 < Thorn> http://openocd.org/doc/html/OpenOCD-Project-Setup.html 5.3
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2020-04-16T13:54:02 < PaulFertser> Thorn: ok, this is just inaccurate, fixed since many years, I'll send a patch later to remove it from the manual.
2020-04-16T13:54:20 < Thorn> ok got it thanks
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2020-04-16T14:39:53 < mawk> nicotine has a protective effect against covid-0o23 Steffanx 
2020-04-16T14:39:58 < mawk> studies says
2020-04-16T14:40:23 < mawk> start smoking
2020-04-16T14:40:46 < mawk> in USA 2% of covid patients are smokers but 15% of population is smoking
2020-04-16T14:40:53 < mawk> around the same proportion in china
2020-04-16T14:41:12 < mawk> you should start esmoking soon
2020-04-16T14:45:31 < Cracki> who claims that
2020-04-16T14:45:56 < mawk> a french newspaper citing two studies
2020-04-16T14:45:59 < Cracki> is this like https://nationalfile.com/video-trans-black-rachel-dolezal-tricked-into-joking-about-13-50-meme/
2020-04-16T14:46:09 < Cracki> I know what 2% means
2020-04-16T14:46:21 < Cracki> my ears are good
2020-04-16T14:47:08 < mawk> lol
2020-04-16T14:47:14 < mawk> I rounded it up
2020-04-16T14:47:19 < mawk> it was 1.5% or something
2020-04-16T14:49:27 < Cracki> 3% you say
2020-04-16T14:50:36 < Steffanx> i'd rather die mawk
2020-04-16T14:51:20 < Cracki> some coroner looked into a bunch of wuflu bodies around here. all of them had some disease, some previously unknown. wuflu was part of the "mechanism of death", sometimes by 90%, sometimes by 10%, but he says they'd all have died within the year of their conditions anyway
2020-04-16T15:04:49 < con3> Cracki: whats that? 10%
2020-04-16T15:07:16  * con3 looks into ceedling,cmock and unity
2020-04-16T15:08:15 < Cracki> :D
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2020-04-16T15:09:19 < Cracki> wait, are those "mocking" for C?
2020-04-16T15:09:50 < con3> Cracki: yeah, im looking into mocking and testing for embedded systems, something i havent been doing :)
2020-04-16T15:09:51 < Cracki> ah, of course, not just whole objects can be mocked, functions too
2020-04-16T15:09:58 < mawk> yes
2020-04-16T15:10:03 < mawk> we use cmock and unity
2020-04-16T15:10:11 < mawk> for unit testing the embedded code
2020-04-16T15:10:32 < con3> mawk: might bug a few people here later on implementation of this stuff with stm32
2020-04-16T15:10:40 < con3> this looks good : https://www.amazon.com/Driven-Development-Embedded-Pragmatic-Programmers/dp/193435662X
2020-04-16T15:10:47 < mawk> we use stm32 as well
2020-04-16T15:10:55 < mawk> we had an intern implement all of it, it can't be hard
2020-04-16T15:11:03 < mawk> no need any book
2020-04-16T15:11:06  * con3 will bug mawk
2020-04-16T15:11:09 < mawk> lol
2020-04-16T15:11:32 < con3> mawk: im an idiot tho
2020-04-16T15:12:56 < con3> mawk: they actually banned the sale of cigs here
2020-04-16T15:13:05 < con3> so i quit cold turkey :)
2020-04-16T15:13:13 < con3> alcohol too
2020-04-16T15:13:29 < mawk> really ?
2020-04-16T15:13:36 < mawk> here in NL they keep coffee shops open
2020-04-16T15:13:40 < mawk> it's essential goods
2020-04-16T15:15:20 < con3> mawk: https://www.iol.co.za/news/south-africa/western-cape/covid-19-lockdown-south-africans-are-asking-google-how-to-make-their-own-alcohol-as-booze-ban-bites-46491513
2020-04-16T15:16:33 < con3> https://www.news24.com/SouthAfrica/News/lockdown-more-liquor-looting-as-3-arrested-in-stellenbosch-20200412
2020-04-16T15:16:45 < con3> people are losing their minds here for booze end cigs
2020-04-16T15:17:20 < Cracki> on the one hand, prohibition always fails, otoh health of the people (drugs are bad, m'kay)
2020-04-16T15:18:24 < con3> the three main requests here were alcohol, cigs and KFC
2020-04-16T15:18:53 < Cracki> no more kentucky fried chicken? oh boy they're gonna riot
2020-04-16T15:19:24 < con3> also the army is deployed here, so if you dont stay at home they gonna get you
2020-04-16T15:20:01 < con3> anyway.. 
2020-04-16T15:20:10 < con3> everyone else here still surviving?
2020-04-16T15:20:19 < con3> Cracki: from the UK right?
2020-04-16T15:20:34 < Cracki> Gott strafe Engand
2020-04-16T15:20:53  * con3 hands Cracki English words
2020-04-16T15:21:21 < Cracki> we are the unfortunate place of magic dirt where the people are so brainwashed that they keep electing crypto-communists
2020-04-16T15:23:09 < Cracki> lol https://www.iol.co.za/business-report/companies/kfc-owner-withholds-rent-on-south-africa-stores-amid-lockdown-46334799
2020-04-16T15:23:49 < con3> i love how one of the most searched things was " how to extract alcohol from hand sanitizer" looks like everyone panic bought the wrong stuff
2020-04-16T15:25:14 < Cracki> news are now literally shitposting: "Coronavirus Shoplifter ‘Projectile Pooped’ During Shoplifting Arrest at Walmart"
2020-04-16T15:25:22 < Cracki> hah
2020-04-16T15:25:28 < con3> Cracki: im sorry. WHAT?
2020-04-16T15:26:09 < Cracki> we live in a society
2020-04-16T15:26:36 < con3> that projectile poops?
2020-04-16T15:26:51 < Cracki> like an octopus except it's not ink
2020-04-16T15:28:02  * con3 unit tests mawk
2020-04-16T15:40:01 < Thorn> moneyed south africans https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=woCcOU0RsQs
2020-04-16T15:41:26 < Cracki> 8K, very moneyed
2020-04-16T15:41:58 < Cracki> tigers for home protection
2020-04-16T15:42:27 < Cracki> necessary I'm sure
2020-04-16T15:45:43 < Thorn> new car https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xcMR0oeMHgg
2020-04-16T15:46:17 < Cracki> good snuffles
2020-04-16T15:47:59 < Thorn> I think he even has a helicopter, saw what might be one in one of his old videos
2020-04-16T15:48:26 < Cracki> what does he do to have this kind of money to spend
2020-04-16T15:48:45 < Cracki> ah football
2020-04-16T15:50:19 < Thorn> no that's not him
2020-04-16T15:50:20 < Thorn> https://michael-jamison.fandom.com/wiki/Michael_Jamison
2020-04-16T15:50:35 < Thorn> >He used to own a business that bought in bulk foreign electronics and get the license to sell them in South Africa. These days he gets income from YouTube videos.
2020-04-16T15:50:59 < Cracki> oh
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2020-04-16T15:52:39 < mawk> ah you're south african con3 ?
2020-04-16T15:52:44 < mawk> you speek afrikaans ???
2020-04-16T15:55:42 < mawk> "[Police minister] also had some harsh words for those who were looting liquor stores, saying he could not understand why they would choose to rather do this than rob food stores."
2020-04-16T15:55:44 < mawk> lol
2020-04-16T15:55:55 < mawk> "why are you not robbing food stores ? go rob them !"
2020-04-16T15:55:57 < Cracki> same species
2020-04-16T15:56:17 < Cracki> why would they rob food stores, food isn't illegal
2020-04-16T15:56:46 < Cracki> incredible. what's next, looting sneakers and flatscreen tvs?
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2020-04-16T16:53:30 < aandrew> wow infineon bought cypress
2020-04-16T16:54:47 < englishman> doesnt r2com work for cypress
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2020-04-16T17:06:47 < Cracki> 9 billion
2020-04-16T17:07:16 < Cracki> these numbers keep growing. it's like this monopoly money loses value right before our eyes!
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2020-04-16T17:43:46 < Steffanx> the r2commie myth.
2020-04-16T17:47:42 < con3> mawk: yep south african and I can speak afrikaans :)
2020-04-16T17:47:58 < Steffanx> nee toch
2020-04-16T17:48:15 < Steffanx> i bet mawk's dutch just sounds like afrikaans
2020-04-16T17:49:27 < con3> hmm.. ek wonder, mawk hoekom praat jy nie 'n bietjie nederlands nie?
2020-04-16T17:49:35 < con3> man afrikaans must sound wild to you guys
2020-04-16T17:50:42 < con3> i feel like a lot of people on this chat are dutch?
2020-04-16T17:50:47 < con3> *channel
2020-04-16T17:50:48 < Steffanx> nah
2020-04-16T17:50:59 < Steffanx> maybe 5 or 6
2020-04-16T17:51:13 < mawk> because I speak english 24/7 con3 
2020-04-16T17:51:17 < con3> ah. A lot of active people then
2020-04-16T17:51:20 < mawk> but I can read a little dutch rest assured
2020-04-16T17:51:38  * con3 hands out stroopwafel
2020-04-16T17:51:42 < mawk> lol
2020-04-16T17:54:32 < con3> mawk: do you live in the netherlands?
2020-04-16T17:55:35 < mawk> yes
2020-04-16T17:55:41 < mawk> near den haag
2020-04-16T17:56:05 < con3> heh do most people there speak english instead of dutch?
2020-04-16T17:56:15 < mawk> only when I'm around
2020-04-16T17:56:26 < mawk> or my spanish colleague
2020-04-16T17:56:35 < mawk> otherwise they speak dutch when we're away
2020-04-16T17:56:43 < con3> ah i see
2020-04-16T18:00:27 < mawk> I was trying to learn it
2020-04-16T18:00:29 < mawk> go to courses and all
2020-04-16T18:00:31 < mawk> then corona happened
2020-04-16T18:00:35  * mawk has an excellent excuse
2020-04-16T18:00:46 < mawk> but I'm not an illegal immigrant con3 rest assured, my father is dutch
2020-04-16T18:00:59 < mawk> just he didn't teach me dutch for whatever reason
2020-04-16T18:03:22 < con3> mawk: i was assuming legal immigrant :p
2020-04-16T18:05:43 < Steffanx> i still see him as an illegal immigrant.
2020-04-16T18:06:00 < Steffanx> he's french and still has f*cking french flag in his house. :P
2020-04-16T18:06:19  * con3 puts up dutch flag
2020-04-16T18:18:06  * PaulFertser still considers buying TS-100 just to have an easily portable temperature-controlled thing. And the reviews seem to be largerly positive. Yes/no?
2020-04-16T18:19:42 < dongs> hmm i was gonna ask zyp something and promptly forgot
2020-04-16T18:19:45 < dongs> i guess ill goto sleep instead
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2020-04-16T18:35:39 < con3> if remember: ask zyp; else sleep;
2020-04-16T18:37:12 < kakimir> PaulFertser: there is opensource pcb for ts100 now
2020-04-16T18:37:20 < kakimir> that uses usb-c
2020-04-16T18:38:12 < kakimir> and way more power than ts80 or whatever the usb-c thing is by miniware
2020-04-16T18:38:34 < BrainDamage> PaulFertser: I hae a ts-100 and it's very good
2020-04-16T18:38:41 < bitmask> yay, paraloid b72 arrives today, now i'll have a better conductive paint
2020-04-16T18:38:42 < BrainDamage> and I use the open source firmware
2020-04-16T18:39:01 < kakimir> ts100 is a ok
2020-04-16T18:39:31 < PaulFertser> kakimir: but I do not need usb-c. It's good to know though.
2020-04-16T18:40:01 < PaulFertser> BrainDamage: thank you for confirmation! How good is it compared to weller or hakko or probably other professional equipment you had a chance to work with?
2020-04-16T18:40:22 < kakimir> I use it with 19V laptop supply and it's okay-ish. 12V in emergency only
2020-04-16T18:40:34 < kakimir> 24V for optimum results
2020-04-16T18:41:35 < BrainDamage> I use a 24V laptop supply, heats up fast, the thermal transfer isn't as good as a "pro" soldering iron, but for the price it's good quality, slightly annoying that you want to disable is the accelerometer to switch side the display
2020-04-16T18:41:46 < BrainDamage> unless you're ambidextrous, it's not a problem
2020-04-16T18:42:06 < BrainDamage> head shielding is ok
2020-04-16T18:42:17 < BrainDamage> no tip oxidation so far also
2020-04-16T18:42:34 < BrainDamage> the main annoyance is the nonstandard tips that are slightly expensive
2020-04-16T18:42:50 < kakimir> PaulFertser: BC2 is the only type of iron tip you want to buy TS100 with
2020-04-16T18:43:28 < kakimir> don't be fooled by sellers that throw some sharp tip in instead of BC2
2020-04-16T18:43:42 < BrainDamage> I use a BC2 too
2020-04-16T18:43:59 < PaulFertser> kakimir: TS-I is standard for "Sapphire Version", why is it bad?
2020-04-16T18:44:21 < BrainDamage> less surface for thermal transfer
2020-04-16T18:44:46 < PaulFertser> I've seen JBC pumping insane amount of power through a tiny tip.
2020-04-16T18:45:43 < kakimir> ts100 is not JBC
2020-04-16T18:46:00 < kakimir> you don't see such thermal transfer rates with TS100
2020-04-16T18:46:07 < PaulFertser> I wonder why accelerometer needs to be disabled is it not measuring negative "acceleration"?
2020-04-16T18:47:08 < PaulFertser> kakimir: if they both can deliver power to the tip it shouldn't matter what type of tip it is
2020-04-16T18:47:32 < kakimir> it still does and arent JCB:s like 100W power anyway?
2020-04-16T18:49:25 < PaulFertser> kakimir: yes, but if I'm ok with max power that ts100 is capable of, why is it any worse at delivering it via a smaller tip?
2020-04-16T18:49:44 < kakimir> idk but it is
2020-04-16T18:50:36 < kakimir> difference between bc2 and sharp tip soldering performance is more than marginal
2020-04-16T18:51:21 < kakimir> you can buy bc2 separatelly though and I recommend you to have one
2020-04-16T18:51:29 < kakimir> it's 12euros or so
2020-04-16T18:51:53 < kakimir> it's one of the more expensive tips
2020-04-16T18:53:01 < kakimir> what I have noticed with sharp tip is that 2mm of the tip get solder stuck to it and further down the tip solder is liquid
2020-04-16T18:53:29 < kakimir> idk if the idea is to crank it up to 450C or something
2020-04-16T18:53:48 < PaulFertser> What was the set temperature?
2020-04-16T18:54:01 < kakimir> something around 300
2020-04-16T18:56:08 < PaulFertser> That's probably marginal even for a Pb solder.
2020-04-16T18:56:39 < kakimir> what I think about sellers combining sharp tip with the iron is that they get sharp ones cheaper and then sell the default BC2 for more moneys
2020-04-16T18:57:11 < PaulFertser> Good discount for the tips currently: https://www.banggood.com/MINI-Original-Replacement-Solder-Tip-For-TS100-Digital-LCD-Soldering-Iron-p-984215.html
2020-04-16T18:57:30 < PaulFertser> Default is TS-B2, not BC2?
2020-04-16T18:58:27 < kakimir> is it?
2020-04-16T18:58:43 < kakimir> first original miniware ts100 I got had BC2
2020-04-16T18:59:19 < PaulFertser> https://www.banggood.com/MINI-TS100-Digital-OLED-Programmable-Interface-DC-5525-Soldering-Iron-Station-Built-in-STM32-Chip-p-984214.html seems to have TS-B2
2020-04-16T18:59:21 < kakimir> B2 could be useful with small shit
2020-04-16T18:59:57 < PaulFertser> TS-I is probably even more so with small shit and probably cranking up the temperature a bit is not a problem.
2020-04-16T19:00:59 < kakimir> I have bought total of.. 5pcs ts100s for myself, for jubb and for friends
2020-04-16T19:01:06 < PaulFertser> Makes sense to get the iron with TS-I and buy TS-BC2 separately while that sale lasts?
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2020-04-16T19:01:17 < kakimir> none of them have yet included B2
2020-04-16T19:01:26 < kakimir> PaulFertser: ye
2020-04-16T19:01:36 < PaulFertser> jubb? As a portable device or as a table station replacement?
2020-04-16T19:01:48 < kakimir> as cheap table station
2020-04-16T19:03:22 < PaulFertser> BrainDamage: the guy on video says hakko long tips are also fitting and working nicely, and with an additional handle the length is not an issue.
2020-04-16T19:03:25 < bitmask> not sure why im spending so much time on this cheap psu but I do like how it looks: https://i.imgur.com/qqlQbF3.png
2020-04-16T19:03:28 < PaulFertser> kakimir: for serious everyday work?
2020-04-16T19:03:42 < kakimir> ye small shit work
2020-04-16T19:04:22 < kakimir> I mainly used reflow station and headpad though
2020-04-16T19:04:46 < kakimir> bitmask: are you making your own?
2020-04-16T19:04:54 < bitmask> nah not this time
2020-04-16T19:04:58 < PaulFertser> kakimir: didn't all the pros complain like "I want my Weller" or "gimme that metcal"?
2020-04-16T19:04:59 < kakimir> you know chinaman has made all this for you already?
2020-04-16T19:05:16 < kakimir> PaulFertser: I was the only pro
2020-04-16T19:05:27 < BrainDamage> PaulFertser: if you have a lipo charger, absolutely get the battery pack adapter
2020-04-16T19:05:29 < bitmask> left side is a b3606 cc/cv, 5v will be a generic buck, 12v is the actual supply and the right side will be a cv adjustable buck
2020-04-16T19:05:34 < PaulFertser> kakimir: I mean soldering pros, not engineers.
2020-04-16T19:05:40 < kakimir> yes
2020-04-16T19:06:47 < kakimir> I was the soldering pro
2020-04-16T19:07:00 < PaulFertser> BrainDamage: all my lipo chargers are not of that kind to be useful, and I have only a tiny 1S powered microheli so I do not really need anything like imaxb6 and 7s lipo assemblies :)
2020-04-16T19:07:27 < PaulFertser> Thank you for the advices kakimir, BrainDamage , much appreciated.
2020-04-16T19:07:50 < Laurenceb> keeek wtf
2020-04-16T19:07:52 < Laurenceb> https://news.images.itv.com/image/file/2186796/stream_img.jpg
2020-04-16T19:08:09 < kakimir> what is this
2020-04-16T19:08:10 < Laurenceb> looks like irl 1984 movie
2020-04-16T19:08:12 < kakimir> 1984?
2020-04-16T19:08:24 < PaulFertser> kakimir: what were you using for hot air btw?
2020-04-16T19:08:27 < PaulFertser> (at jubb)
2020-04-16T19:08:36 < Laurenceb> britbong coronavirus "hospital"
2020-04-16T19:08:55 < kakimir> PaulFertser: building all the small shit
2020-04-16T19:08:57 < catphish> nice hospital tent
2020-04-16T19:09:15 < PaulFertser> Laurenceb: looks legit, what's wrong about it?
2020-04-16T19:09:42 < PaulFertser> kakimir: eh, sorry, I see how that can be misread, I was asking about what hot air equipment you had.
2020-04-16T19:09:44 < BrainDamage> PaulFertser: it looks out of a dystopian movie
2020-04-16T19:10:02 < PaulFertser> BrainDamage: to me it looks a bit like an oversized plane.
2020-04-16T19:10:51 < kakimir> PaulFertser: idk. some pretty high power blower that was already there.. it had couple of hundred watts
2020-04-16T19:11:01  * antto checks to see how's the situation in ##stm32
2020-04-16T19:11:03 < Laurenceb> PaulFertser: looks like irl "V for vendetta"
2020-04-16T19:11:10 < kakimir> black box with led display and buttons for temperature and fan speed
2020-04-16T19:11:11 < antto> "JE SUIS CORIZZLE VIZZLE"
2020-04-16T19:11:52 < kakimir> 60W chinaclone blower is pita
2020-04-16T19:12:41 < PaulFertser> I have lukey station with blower and it works OK, at least for plastic welding :)
2020-04-16T19:12:50 < PaulFertser> And preheating glue
2020-04-16T19:12:53 < Laurenceb> undergrads at uni perpetually reset the hot air station to max temp and max blow
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2020-04-16T19:12:59 < Laurenceb> I facepalmed every time
2020-04-16T19:13:32 < Laurenceb> ~255C and low air flow ftw
2020-04-16T19:13:37 < PaulFertser> Laurenceb: so if we skip the culture references, what exactly is bad about that hospital?
2020-04-16T19:14:10 < Laurenceb> the royal dude on video link, soldiers, and huge hatched doors make it all look a bit v for vendetta
2020-04-16T19:14:14 < catphish> technically, it's terrible, it's thrown together for an emergency
2020-04-16T19:14:48 < catphish> but i'm sure it serves its purpose well, where one of the requirements is fast and cheap
2020-04-16T19:14:49 < Laurenceb> yeah, covid 19 will pass through the air conditioning I bet
2020-04-16T19:14:59 < Laurenceb> air con in NEC is nasty at the best of times
2020-04-16T19:15:04 < catphish> i suspect they thought of that
2020-04-16T19:15:24 < catphish> oh i assumed this was london
2020-04-16T19:15:29  * Laurenceb has spent way too much time in the NEC
2020-04-16T19:15:31 < catphish> dunno anything about the NEC one
2020-04-16T19:15:45 < catphish> but i imagine they're similar
2020-04-16T19:15:55 < Laurenceb> whole place has a thunderbirds vibe
2020-04-16T19:16:23 < PaulFertser> Laurenceb: oh, it's one your useless family members? I thought it's the head of the health ministry or somesuch.
2020-04-16T19:16:35 < Laurenceb> lol k
2020-04-16T19:16:45 < catphish> yay 3 more weeks!
2020-04-16T19:17:04 < Laurenceb> when I was about 4 I used to think thunderbirds were real and the NEC was the hangers lol
2020-04-16T19:17:09 < catphish> lol
2020-04-16T19:17:45 < PaulFertser> Laurenceb: air conditioning is creating a positive pressure inside so the virus will be flowing away via the vents, no?
2020-04-16T19:18:15 < Laurenceb> PaulFerster: the whole complex seems to have an interconnected centralised HVAC system
2020-04-16T19:18:27 < Laurenceb> I'd worry about the virus going everywhere
2020-04-16T19:19:22 < kakimir> it's spread by farts
2020-04-16T19:19:44 < Cracki> did you see the news about the thief with projectile poop
2020-04-16T19:19:48 < englishman> PaulFertser: i got a ts100 and wired it to use with a 6S lipo for ultimate portability
2020-04-16T19:19:52 < englishman> it has come in quite handy
2020-04-16T19:20:11 < Laurenceb> this place is turning chans tier thanks for kakimir and Cracki
2020-04-16T19:20:19 < englishman> pretty much laurent
2020-04-16T19:20:27 < englishman> you are no longer the lowest tier chatter
2020-04-16T19:20:27 < PaulFertser> englishman: do you support the tip advice I got from the folks?
2020-04-16T19:20:29 < Cracki> oh Laurenceb you are innocent
2020-04-16T19:21:06 < Laurenceb> ikr, no spam links about projectile poo
2020-04-16T19:21:14 < englishman> what was that advice PaulFertser ?
2020-04-16T19:21:20 < Cracki> no slacking
2020-04-16T19:21:49 < PaulFertser> englishman: not having TS-I as the only tip and necessarily getting TS-BC2.
2020-04-16T19:23:30 < kakimir> that is exactly what I recommend
2020-04-16T19:23:31 < englishman> i guess it's personal preference? i got the D24 as typically when i need a mobile soldering iron it's for something quite big like wires.
2020-04-16T19:23:32 < BrainDamage> I don't 100% agree with that advice, but for me, the conical section head is indeed better
2020-04-16T19:28:09 < PaulFertser> I once tried ad hoc soldering with a plain lighter (though the flux tends to ignite in flame) and it seems to be good enough for roadside repairs.
2020-04-16T19:29:20 < BrainDamage> PaulFertser: this isn't about ghetto, this is about getting a quality result on the go
2020-04-16T19:29:25 < englishman> if you're really cheap you could get a butane torch lighter
2020-04-16T19:29:31 < PaulFertser> BrainDamage: yeah, I understand
2020-04-16T19:29:35 < englishman> but it's pretty awful to use
2020-04-16T19:29:42 < englishman> or a butane soldering iron
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2020-04-16T19:29:51 < englishman> i had to get one of those when fixing a drone up north
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2020-04-16T19:30:23 < englishman> you could also heat up a rock in your campfire and use that to solder
2020-04-16T19:30:35 < englishman> or better yet, yell at the wires until they do as you ask
2020-04-16T19:30:36 < BrainDamage> hot coal iron
2020-04-16T19:31:31 < englishman> you should also get really angry at the wires and tell them they will never grow up to be anything
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2020-04-16T19:38:43 < boddax> angry to my dog after 4 year not yet talking
2020-04-16T19:40:14 < kakimir> your dog has not learned to talk in 4years?
2020-04-16T19:40:27 < kakimir> that sucks
2020-04-16T19:41:37 < boddax> for that i have my girlfriend
2020-04-16T19:44:54 < kakimir> ofc
2020-04-16T19:46:03 < Steffanx> She talks too much right? :P
2020-04-16T19:49:04 < kakimir> you know what your dog would say if it was able to talk?
2020-04-16T19:49:46 < Steffanx> Woof woof.
2020-04-16T19:51:12 < kakimir> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bJCxrc7Ns_g it's possible
2020-04-16T19:54:34 < antto> "when you go to wurk, i rape ur pillow"
2020-04-16T19:56:11 < kakimir> decommend isolated dc dc
2020-04-16T19:56:34 < kakimir> series of them
2020-04-16T19:56:55 < kakimir> it drives only an opto
2020-04-16T19:57:02 < kakimir> so rather small and cheap
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2020-04-16T20:08:45 < kakimir> traco TPA-1?
2020-04-16T20:08:52 < kakimir> TBA-1
2020-04-16T20:09:49 < kakimir> but there is one absolute winner in 1W class
2020-04-16T20:10:01 < kakimir> RECOM RFMM-0505S
2020-04-16T20:10:09 < kakimir> it's like half of the price of others
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2020-04-16T20:32:33 < kakimir> do you think a DC/DC module is: A - subassembly, U - integrated circuit, T - transformer?
2020-04-16T20:33:38 < BrainDamage> yes
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2020-04-16T20:35:24 < Steffanx> ty
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2020-04-16T20:40:07 < Thorn> https://www.foxnews.com/politics/coronavirus-wuhan-lab-china-compete-us-sources
2020-04-16T20:43:06 < BrainDamage> https://imgur.com/a/ZJbfXvv
2020-04-16T20:47:20 < Cracki> Sweet revenge: scientists infect chinaman with european flu
2020-04-16T20:49:31 < Cracki> https://twitter.com/SosaCausstica/status/1244313108828520451
2020-04-16T20:59:48 < kakimir> my mask has been shipped
2020-04-16T21:00:25 < boddax> solder mask?
2020-04-16T21:05:51 < kakimir> my full face gas mask
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2020-04-16T21:50:58 < mawk> the distance to earth center pretty constant throughout netherlands right ?
2020-04-16T21:51:02 < mawk> it's flat
2020-04-16T21:51:26 < Ultrasauce> these two statements are contradictory
2020-04-16T21:52:03 < mawk> it's spherically flat
2020-04-16T21:55:18 < PaulFertser> "In a small triangle on the face of the earth, the sum of the angles is only slightly more than 180 degrees."
2020-04-16T21:58:02 < mawk> also it's a colloquialism Ultrasauce , netherlands is the flat country
2020-04-16T21:58:09 < mawk> you can go back innovating in your closet no
2020-04-16T21:58:11 < mawk> w
2020-04-16T21:58:37 < mawk> and if you take into account gravity PaulFertser ?
2020-04-16T21:59:27 < mawk> lol kakimir 
2020-04-16T21:59:34 < mawk> you have cartridge with it ?
2020-04-16T21:59:55 < Ultrasauce> im innovating in my bedroom thanks
2020-04-16T22:00:07 < mawk> I innovate on my couch
2020-04-16T22:00:21 < mawk> and my boss doesn't like it because he probably read in "boss weekly" that he should force employees to work at a chair
2020-04-16T22:00:48 < Ultrasauce> my roommate is interviewing job applicants from her hammock
2020-04-16T22:00:52 < Ultrasauce> i am gelatinous
2020-04-16T22:02:39 < Steffanx> hm
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2020-04-16T22:06:49 < PaulFertser> mawk: geometry is not affected by gravity. I meant to inspire someone here to read a book on non-Euclidean geometry...
2020-04-16T22:09:14 < mawk> not even by space deformation ?
2020-04-16T22:09:19 < Cracki> gravity warps space, no?
2020-04-16T22:09:20 < Cracki> :D
2020-04-16T22:09:29 < mawk> "non-euclidean geometry" sounds to me like wasted lives
2020-04-16T22:09:38 < mawk> of all the mathematicians that tried to prove it doesn't exist
2020-04-16T22:09:47 < Cracki> right, geometry on a sphere can't possibly have practical applications
2020-04-16T22:09:51 < mawk> before accepting that it's a real geometry in itself
2020-04-16T22:10:13 < PaulFertser> mawk: math works with abstractions, gravity is there only when you include it willingly
2020-04-16T22:10:22 < mawk> that's a physician talking
2020-04-16T22:10:26 < mawk> no air, no gravity, no friction
2020-04-16T22:10:28 < mawk> there, it works
2020-04-16T22:10:40 < mawk> physicist* I guess physician is something else
2020-04-16T22:10:47 < Cracki> wouldn't that be fun, just refusing to include gravity and it fucks off
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2020-04-16T22:11:39 < mawk> I'm doing geoshit in sql
2020-04-16T22:12:44 < mawk> SELECT cos(radians(longitude)) * cos(radians(latitude)) AS x, sin(radians(longitude)) * cos(radians(latitude)) AS y, sin(radians(latitude)) AS z FROM gps_tracker_log
2020-04-16T22:12:58 < Ultrasauce> tfw the earth is a perfect sphere
2020-04-16T22:14:10 < Cracki> what are you doing with your cartesian coordinates then
2020-04-16T22:14:11 < PaulFertser> Is that SQL formula just for the kicks or does it really make sense to calculate it server side?
2020-04-16T22:17:13 < rmaw> anyone know how I can stop altium generating solder paste for components that are "Not Fitted" in a variation
2020-04-16T22:17:28 < rmaw> I dont even seem to be able to delete the paste pads in Camtastic
2020-04-16T22:17:58 < rmaw> this is when generating gerbers
2020-04-16T22:20:46 < rmaw> you'd definately thik it would be excluded from solder paste if its not fitted... 
2020-04-16T22:21:26 < Cracki> you want the pads to disappear completely? or just "no paste" them?
2020-04-16T22:21:46 < rmaw> no, I want the pads, just no paste over them
2020-04-16T22:22:15 < Cracki> what is "smart paste"?
2020-04-16T22:22:27 < Cracki> nvm, that's copy and paste
2020-04-16T22:22:34 < rmaw> someone else is assembling them, whether they actually use my paste layer I have no idea
2020-04-16T22:22:53 < rmaw> I'd delete the polygon in the gerber if camtastic would let me
2020-04-16T22:23:36 < rmaw> never really done anything in it before beyond export the final files after plotting
2020-04-16T22:24:05 < rmaw> but beyond selecting hte pad on the paste layer, it doesn't seem like i can actually do any editing in there..
2020-04-16T22:25:00 < Cracki> lots of workarounds and hacks out there :/
2020-04-16T22:25:19 < Cracki> like this https://altiumpcbdesigner.blogspot.com/2016/10/variants-remove-solder-paste.html
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2020-04-16T22:26:31 < rmaw> right, yea .. that was my next step to just bake it into the soldermask setting on the pad
2020-04-16T22:27:04 < rmaw> you'd think stuff like this would just work out of the box
2020-04-16T22:27:14 < Cracki> heh
2020-04-16T22:27:17 < Cracki> feature request
2020-04-16T22:27:39 < Cracki> I doubt altium devs use the product themselves. they're software people
2020-04-16T22:27:45 < rmaw> bit like calling letters appearing on your screen a 'feature' tho in a word processor
2020-04-16T22:28:01 < rmaw> :)
2020-04-16T22:28:27 < Cracki> variants are rocket science
2020-04-16T22:29:13 < Cracki> someone made the argument that you'd want noplace pads tinned anyway because corrosion or something
2020-04-16T22:33:44 < rmaw> negative solder mask works to remove it in the gerbers
2020-04-16T22:33:44 < rmaw> thanks
2020-04-16T22:33:52 < rmaw> uhh *solder paste
2020-04-16T22:35:09 < rmaw> guess that makes sense about the sodler paste, but if theres a manual assembly step, then you ideally don't want it pre tinned
2020-04-16T22:35:15 < rmaw> should definately be configurable
2020-04-16T22:35:35 < Cracki> ye
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2020-04-16T22:56:56 < bitmask> yeaaaa, this conductive coating is awesome.  definitely worth the $10 this douche charged for the recipe
2020-04-16T22:59:38 < Steffanx> Got the trump money yet?
2020-04-16T23:02:34 < Cracki> check social media for how many people are gonna vote trump because he actually did what he promised
2020-04-16T23:03:14 < Cracki> if he does that again in 2024 he'll get a third term no matter what
2020-04-16T23:03:40 < Steffanx> Better get the new wuflu rolling in time then
2020-04-16T23:04:58 < bitmask> nah I owed taxes this year so I had to manually enter my bank info so its going to be delayed
2020-04-16T23:05:24 < bitmask> will still be quicker than getting a check though
2020-04-16T23:06:02 < Steffanx> This check is gonna be more valuable... it has trumps name/signature on it?
2020-04-16T23:06:35 -!- ohsix [~ohsix@bc175210.bendcable.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds]
2020-04-16T23:06:50 < bitmask> sell it on ebay 
2020-04-16T23:08:22 < Steffanx> YEAH
2020-04-16T23:10:50 < Steffanx> someone will do that
2020-04-16T23:12:30 < Cracki> moneyed eurofags gonna bid over 9000
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2020-04-16T23:17:41 < mawk> Cracki: averages
2020-04-16T23:17:54 < mawk> it's just a one time formula PaulFertser 
2020-04-16T23:17:58 < mawk> to get an ExCeL sheet out
2020-04-16T23:18:22 < Cracki> hm, that's a good way to average
2020-04-16T23:18:29 < mawk> it's the correct way
2020-04-16T23:18:39 < mawk> but I confess the simple averaging of angles would've worked
2020-04-16T23:18:44 < Cracki> I guess polar opposites are a tricky case regardless
2020-04-16T23:18:54 < mawk> if you're far from the 180° angles you can average the angles to a good approximation
2020-04-16T23:18:54 < Cracki> averaging of angles would be biased
2020-04-16T23:19:03 < mawk> if it's very small difference
2020-04-16T23:19:05 < mawk> yeah
2020-04-16T23:19:56 < mawk> for polar opposites the middle is the whole earth
2020-04-16T23:20:04 < mawk> well a whole circle I mean
2020-04-16T23:20:09 < mawk> and that manifests in the computation by a division by zero
2020-04-16T23:20:11 < mawk> nature is well made
2020-04-16T23:31:15 < catphish> fun fact, i just went to order a STM32F407VG from JLCPCB, its LCSC part number is C12345
2020-04-16T23:31:56 < mawk> you won the lottery
2020-04-16T23:34:01 < Steffanx> Hah
2020-04-16T23:35:40 < specing> haha
--- Day changed Fri Apr 17 2020
2020-04-17T00:13:20 < catphish> order time, hope i didn't do anything too dumb :)
2020-04-17T00:13:39 < catphish> first attempt at full JLCPCB PCBA
2020-04-17T00:14:46 < Steffanx> Cool :)
2020-04-17T00:17:45 < qyx> how much
2020-04-17T00:22:00 < catphish> £55 PCB £62 assembly and parts £50 shipping and tax
2020-04-17T00:22:12 < catphish> for 5 boards
2020-04-17T00:22:14 < karlp> how many boards? whic hproject is this?
2020-04-17T00:23:14 < catphish> https://i.imgur.com/hQnHfZS.png
2020-04-17T00:23:21 < catphish> ethernet and RFID access control system
2020-04-17T00:23:39 < karlp> why were the boards so much?!
2020-04-17T00:24:13 < qyx> are they gold?
2020-04-17T00:24:16 < catphish> 4 layer 0.25mm drills
2020-04-17T00:24:17 < qyx> *golden
2020-04-17T00:24:25 < qyx> wat 4 layers for such board?
2020-04-17T00:24:25 < catphish> they seem to add a bunch of cost for those
2020-04-17T00:24:45 < karlp> my four ulayer usb board is going to be like $28?!
2020-04-17T00:24:52 < karlp> why did you needc 0.25mm drills?
2020-04-17T00:25:07 < catphish> i didn't, i just didnt realise the cost and can't be bothered to redo them
2020-04-17T00:25:08 < qyx> such money
2020-04-17T00:25:46 < catphish> they didn't seem that small when i was drilling under ICs :)
2020-04-17T00:27:40 < aandrew> catphish: why not STM32 with MAC?
2020-04-17T00:27:47 < catphish> it is
2020-04-17T00:27:51 < qyx> wat
2020-04-17T00:28:10 < aandrew> what's the QFN between the STM32 and the magjack?
2020-04-17T00:28:13 < qyx> phy
2020-04-17T00:28:15 < catphish> PHY
2020-04-17T00:28:21 < aandrew> I'm dumb
2020-04-17T00:28:22 < aandrew> nevermind
2020-04-17T00:28:24 < catphish> lol
2020-04-17T00:28:25 < qyx> :>
2020-04-17T00:28:58 < catphish> aandrew: https://nutty.tk/accesscontrol.pdf
2020-04-17T00:29:10 < catphish> anyone who finds problems with my design now will be killed
2020-04-17T00:29:23 < catphish> hopefully it's good enough to work :)
2020-04-17T00:30:07 < qyx> I see few
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2020-04-17T00:30:19 < qyx> probably not ~problems
2020-04-17T00:30:28 < catphish> well i do always appreciate feedbacl
2020-04-17T00:30:38 < catphish> can always improve things next time
2020-04-17T00:31:07 < catphish> layout https://i.imgur.com/x71dUj8.png
2020-04-17T00:31:08 < BrainDamage> does your system fails open or closed in the case of a power loss?
2020-04-17T00:31:19 < Cracki> :D
2020-04-17T00:31:39 < catphish> BrainDamage: it fails open, it's backed by a lead acid battery
2020-04-17T00:31:59 < catphish> when that dies, the door opens :)
2020-04-17T00:32:03 < Cracki> can it be zapped from the outside
2020-04-17T00:32:18 < catphish> probably
2020-04-17T00:32:22 < Cracki> excellent
2020-04-17T00:32:57 < catphish> i didn't do any overvolt protection on the RFID reader, so you could probably destroy the STM32 if you disconnected it
2020-04-17T00:33:36 < catphish> i considered it for v2
2020-04-17T00:33:41 < BrainDamage> you could probably fit a couple of diodes on the terminal blocks
2020-04-17T00:33:59 < BrainDamage> just use through hole ones
2020-04-17T00:34:05 < catphish> thats true
2020-04-17T00:34:45 < BrainDamage> the next question is more of a physical nature, I hope the electromagnet is sufficiently protected
2020-04-17T00:34:59 < BrainDamage> aka, you cannot unlock the bar with an external magnet
2020-04-17T00:35:32 < catphish> the magnet is very secure, it's a plate, not a bar
2020-04-17T00:35:35 < aandrew> it's funny
2020-04-17T00:35:37 < catphish> internally mounted
2020-04-17T00:35:44 < aandrew> I built something like this years ago when I was renting some industrial space
2020-04-17T00:35:48 < catphish> you'd rip off the door before you broke the magnet
2020-04-17T00:36:24 < catphish> 600mA electromaget rated for 500KG force
2020-04-17T00:36:54 < aandrew> it was an avr based system but could read two wiegand readers for RFID, control the furnace and the door
2020-04-17T00:37:05 < catphish> in fact the magnet, battery and RFID reader are already installed professionally, i'm just replacing the proprietary controller
2020-04-17T00:37:06 < aandrew> no ethernet though
2020-04-17T00:37:51 < catphish> because it uses an extremely unreliable windows program to control it, and the company are dicks about relicencing it to a new PC
2020-04-17T00:38:02 < catphish> so i'm making an open source replacement
2020-04-17T00:40:44 < catphish> there is actually another security flaw in this design that can be overcome with an external component, the reader doesn't have its own fuse, if you just short out the reader you'll blow the polyfuse and open the door
2020-04-17T00:41:09 < aandrew> https://imgur.com/a/lBLDfr4
2020-04-17T00:41:25 < aandrew> pretty much same idea
2020-04-17T00:41:27 < catphish> but really, if you wanted to get in that badly, the door isn't exactly made of steel
2020-04-17T00:41:29 < aandrew> but at90can128
2020-04-17T00:41:48 < catphish> cool
2020-04-17T00:42:01 < aandrew> thermostat, security, etc
2020-04-17T00:42:04 < catphish> the big thing i wanted with this was ethernet
2020-04-17T00:42:15 < catphish> took me a while to figure that out
2020-04-17T00:43:11 < catphish> this is the magnet :) https://www.cdvi.co.uk/catalogue/internal-surface-magnets/c5s11
2020-04-17T00:49:39 < aandrew> catphish: ethernet to read the rfid?
2020-04-17T00:50:00 < aandrew> catphish: I have the double version of that. awesome thing
2020-04-17T00:50:03 < catphish> aandrew: no, for programming / monitoring / control
2020-04-17T00:50:21 < catphish> ie adding new cards, opening the door for someone remotely, logging entry times
2020-04-17T00:50:53 < catphish> once it's configured, the ethernet is optional, but useful
2020-04-17T00:52:01 < catphish> the rfid is [some kind of serial]
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2020-04-17T00:52:21 < catphish> that's one part i haven't tested yet, i just connected it to a usart and crossed my fingers
2020-04-17T00:52:22 < aandrew> my RFID was all wiegand
2020-04-17T00:52:25 < aandrew> weird ass pulsed serial
2020-04-17T00:52:32 < catphish> i think this might be that too
2020-04-17T00:52:47 < aandrew> you have a '1' line and a '0' line and depending on which line pulsed, that's the next bit
2020-04-17T00:53:35 < catphish> this has a choice of "mag-stripe" or "wiegand"
2020-04-17T00:54:24 < catphish> mag-stripe has a clock line and a data line, so i connected the terminal block to usart rx and clk
2020-04-17T00:54:35 < catphish> that seems the better option
2020-04-17T00:54:42 < catphish> but no idea what the protocol is
2020-04-17T00:54:48 < englishman> catphish: uk pcbs? or china
2020-04-17T00:54:56 < catphish> jlcpcb
2020-04-17T00:55:00 < englishman> assy as well?
2020-04-17T00:55:03 < catphish> yeah
2020-04-17T00:55:14 < catphish> my first attempt at china PCBA
2020-04-17T00:55:24 < englishman> they had all the part you needed?
2020-04-17T00:55:43 < catphish> by design, yes
2020-04-17T00:55:54 < catphish> i used their stock to choose my parts
2020-04-17T00:55:54 < englishman> by design?
2020-04-17T00:55:56 < englishman> ahh
2020-04-17T00:56:01 < englishman> cool let us know how it goes
2020-04-17T00:56:08 < catphish> will do
2020-04-17T00:56:45 < catphish> i didn't optimize for cost in any way https://i.imgur.com/t31pi34.png
2020-04-17T00:57:00 < englishman> id hope not, its a proto
2020-04-17T00:57:22 < catphish> will see how well it comes out
2020-04-17T00:58:03 < catphish> since it's my first attempt at ethernet, switching supply, AND PCBA, i am prepared for the possibility i messed something up
2020-04-17T00:58:16 < englishman> nice aandrew how long ago did you make that
2020-04-17T00:58:30 < catphish> but fingers crossed i did most of it right
2020-04-17T00:59:28 < englishman> couldnt you use a disco board with ethernet and the switcher's devboard? if it's that simple
2020-04-17T01:00:17 < catphish> yeah, i have a nucleo board, and i nearly just made a carrier for it with a relay
2020-04-17T01:00:23 < catphish> but... this is more interesting
2020-04-17T01:00:47 < qyx> yu no rpi
2020-04-17T01:00:52 < catphish> no
2020-04-17T01:01:40 < catphish> i don't like using a desktop OS to operate a relay :)
2020-04-17T01:10:10 < catphish> with that said, a pi or an allwinner H3 would work nicely
2020-04-17T01:10:15 < catphish> still need a carrier board though
2020-04-17T01:11:25 < aandrew> catphish: end of 2012 judging by the date code
2020-04-17T01:11:54 < aandrew> fuck man 8 years ago?
2020-04-17T01:11:55 < catphish> aandrew: it wasn't me that asked :)
2020-04-17T01:11:56 < aandrew> insane
2020-04-17T01:12:38 < aandrew> oh that was englishman 
2020-04-17T01:12:39 < catphish> englishman: ^
2020-04-17T01:12:57 < catphish> although, i'm actually an english man
2020-04-17T01:13:37 < englishman> 8 years ago and not using stm32
2020-04-17T01:15:29 < aandrew> catphish: lol
2020-04-17T01:15:53 < aandrew> yeah 8y ago I had some experience with cortex and arm7tdmi but not a lot
2020-04-17T01:16:33 < aandrew> I chose that part because can for 1 but also becuase I was using it in an industrial piledriver controller
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2020-04-17T01:18:09 < catphish> i was using atmega 8 years ago
2020-04-17T01:18:48 < catphish> it's no stm32, but does most hobby type things very well
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2020-04-17T01:18:49 < bitmask> I was using atmega 3 months ago :P
2020-04-17T01:19:12 < bitmask> theres nothing wrong with atmega for simple things
2020-04-17T01:19:34 < catphish> i just use stm32 for anything and everything now
2020-04-17T01:19:43 < catphish> no point maintaining 2 workflows
2020-04-17T01:20:02 < bitmask> true, I should find a new project to stm
2020-04-17T01:20:41 < aandrew> catphish: that's pretty much exactly my thinking as well, although I am trying to ramp up on riscv
2020-04-17T01:20:55 < aandrew> as I see that as a real cortex-killer in time
2020-04-17T01:21:49 < catphish> i liked the sound of riscv but realistically it's the peripherals that make the mcu, and stm32 has that nailed
2020-04-17T01:21:59 < catphish> i hope to play with it though when chips come on the market
2020-04-17T01:22:11 < bitmask> no idea what riscv is
2020-04-17T01:22:19 < qyx> catphish: they are available now
2020-04-17T01:22:27 < catphish> qyx: what uses it?
2020-04-17T01:22:27 < qyx> even seed has some
2020-04-17T01:22:36 < qyx> sipeed maix for example
2020-04-17T01:22:51 < BrainDamage> some use stm32 periph with riscv
2020-04-17T01:23:19 < qyx> catphish: https://www.seeedstudio.com/Sipeed-MAIX-I-module-w-o-WiFi-1st-RISC-V-64-AI-Module-K210-inside-p-3210.html
2020-04-17T01:23:22 < aandrew> catphish: I agree but there is nothing stopping stmicro from glomping a riscv core on to stm32 periphs when/if cortex pricing becomes a factor
2020-04-17T01:23:23 < Laurenceb> catphish: yeah peripherals is where its at
2020-04-17T01:23:27 < catphish> i'm actually not totally sure what risv *is*
2020-04-17T01:23:42 < Laurenceb> but K210 is insane on paper
2020-04-17T01:23:43 < BrainDamage> it's a cpu core
2020-04-17T01:23:44 < aandrew> I have a couple riscv boards (mcu not mpu)
2020-04-17T01:24:01 < catphish> i mean, is it just a standard, or is there one (or more) good implementations? are they free?
2020-04-17T01:24:05 < aandrew> where I think riscv is fucking it up is they seem to be playing kind of loose with the ISA
2020-04-17T01:24:18 < BrainDamage> the base isa is a standardd
2020-04-17T01:24:25 < Laurenceb> when you look into the actual hardware in K210 its maybe not as hawt
2020-04-17T01:24:33 < Laurenceb> but they seem to make it work very well in the demos
2020-04-17T01:24:39 < BrainDamage> but manifacturers can/do EEE it
2020-04-17T01:24:51 < Laurenceb> probably not self driving car tier tho
2020-04-17T01:25:20 < Laurenceb> muh self driving car
2020-04-17T01:25:32 < qyx> I am planning to use that kendryte once
2020-04-17T01:25:38 < Laurenceb> driving u to the insane asylum or the TED talk
2020-04-17T01:25:43 < qyx> when the world is fixed
2020-04-17T01:25:44 < Laurenceb> oh wait thats the same place
2020-04-17T01:25:49 < qyx> and I have enough free time
2020-04-17T01:26:43 < Laurenceb> I almost fell for the self driving car meme
2020-04-17T01:26:56 < Laurenceb> but now I'm working on sane project like stratospheric solar
2020-04-17T01:26:59 < aandrew> I got the hifive board/chips
2020-04-17T01:27:01 < Laurenceb> *projects
2020-04-17T01:27:19 < qyx> I am quite surprised stm32 as no KPU/other neural/convolution accelerator
2020-04-17T01:27:23 < englishman> yeah the isa is the standard
2020-04-17T01:27:29 < englishman> then you go and make your core out of it
2020-04-17T01:27:36 < englishman> and there are tons of people doing that
2020-04-17T01:27:40 < englishman> but that was the point of OpenHW
2020-04-17T01:27:50 < englishman> so that people can go and use one working core
2020-04-17T01:28:13 < aandrew> https://www.crowdsupply.com/sifive/hifive1
2020-04-17T01:28:46 < aandrew> https://github.com/sifive/freedom more importantly
2020-04-17T01:30:30 < aandrew> perhipherals on the FE310 suck
2020-04-17T01:33:10 < catphish> i do hope open source IC become good enough that china can churn them out for profit
2020-04-17T01:33:23 < catphish> but it's a hard thing to develop
2020-04-17T01:34:19 < aandrew> well something like riscv takes care of the core, it's a matter of developing good peripheral cores 
2020-04-17T01:34:46 < aandrew> it'd be pretty cool to have stm32-compatible cores 
2020-04-17T01:39:12 < specing> risc v with stm32 peripherals?
2020-04-17T01:40:20 < Cracki> he said "good"
2020-04-17T01:41:10 < Cracki> but maybe GD can come up with peripherals improved upon what ST has
2020-04-17T01:42:16 < catphish> i have no attachment to stm's API, but similar functionlity would be awesome
2020-04-17T01:42:52 < catphish> but again riscv isn't a core is it? you need an implementation, are there any that are both free and finished?
2020-04-17T01:43:13 < catphish> and do they compete in terms of performance with arm?
2020-04-17T01:43:58 < catphish> if and when there's a chip with a complete riscv core and reasonable peripheral set i will buy it immediately
2020-04-17T01:44:34 < Cracki> as for cortex core + ST peripherals: GD32VF1 or was it FV1
2020-04-17T01:44:43 < ds2> there are riscv cores on github
2020-04-17T01:44:55 < Cracki> uh RV core + ST periph*
2020-04-17T01:45:17 < ds2> AFAIK, there is only 1 silicon maker for RiscV so far
2020-04-17T01:45:41 < Cracki> not precisely. I'd consider gigadevice's GD32V to be silicon of RV
2020-04-17T01:45:48 < Cracki> not sure if they made their own core or bought one
2020-04-17T01:45:50 < catphish> ds2: this is the disconnect i see, risc-v cores on github, but are they any good? if so, where's the silicon
2020-04-17T01:46:05 < ds2> catphish: they are meant for FPGAs
2020-04-17T01:46:22 < catphish> ds2: that's the issue i suppose, open source is geared to fpga
2020-04-17T01:46:33 < Cracki> https://www.gigadevice.com/products/microcontrollers/gd32/risc-v/
2020-04-17T01:46:52 < englishman> ds2 there are plenty of placed and routed riscv now
2020-04-17T01:47:12 < ds2> Cracki: nice
2020-04-17T01:47:16 < englishman> and fully hard riscv
2020-04-17T01:47:20 < englishman> there just arent that many mcus
2020-04-17T01:47:30 < catphish> it would be nice to see just one line of completely open source MCUs with riscv and a set of peripherals
2020-04-17T01:47:30 < ds2> catphish: find me an open foundary ;)
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2020-04-17T01:48:12 < catphish> but i guess so few people can make the silicon, it just doesn't make sense
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2020-04-17T01:48:31 < ds2> i wish they did a PSoCX with RiscV
2020-04-17T01:49:02 < catphish> anyway, stm32 does a great job, but i do like open sores
2020-04-17T01:49:06 < aandrew> I wish the PSoCs didn't suck
2020-04-17T01:49:18 < ds2> aandrew: what's your issue with them besides price?
2020-04-17T01:49:24 < aandrew> that's another chip with shit peripherals and lots of potential but crippled UDBs
2020-04-17T01:49:35 < Cracki> psoc is cypress, yes? infineon bought cypress, maybe that shakes things up
2020-04-17T01:49:45 < ds2> crippled UDB?
2020-04-17T01:50:03 < catphish> how about this thing? https://www.sifive.com/boards/hifive1
2020-04-17T01:50:20 < ds2> sifive is the first riscv silicon
2020-04-17T01:50:21 < aandrew> ds2: peripherals are bad, buggy, limited and windows-only dev environment for the UDBs, 8-bit UDB paths (wtf seriously), extremely limited number of UDBs, worse HAL than STM... that's probably about it
2020-04-17T01:50:37 < aandrew> they do have really nice analog and they also have really nice "any pin, any peripheral" mapping
2020-04-17T01:51:03 < Cracki> GD32V is using a "bumblebee" impl of RV
2020-04-17T01:51:20 < catphish> i'd buy a chip just for "any pin any peripheral"
2020-04-17T01:51:30 < catphish> routing would be a dream
2020-04-17T01:51:36 < ds2> aandrew: I see the PSoC used as a slave for analog stuff so HAL isn't an issue... the peripherals seems functional enough
2020-04-17T01:51:36 < Cracki> https://github.com/riscv/riscv-cores-list
2020-04-17T01:51:43 < ds2> no worse then other ones
2020-04-17T01:52:00 < ds2> but may main use is for a grown up analog breadboard for experimenting
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2020-04-17T01:53:51 < aandrew> yes, functional. not great
2020-04-17T01:54:31 < aandrew> UDBs were a real let down for me. so much potential
2020-04-17T01:55:10 < ds2> how about this - ECP5 fpga plus the programmable analog plus a RiscV core?
2020-04-17T01:55:50 < ds2> it depends on what you want to do with the UDB... if you see them as an few GAL22V10's, it is fine
2020-04-17T01:56:06 < aandrew> Lattice could do real well if they bolted a RV32IM core on to one of their FPGAs
2020-04-17T01:56:13 < aandrew> ds2: agreed
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2020-04-17T01:58:08 < ds2> I'd agree if is one of the Unofficially opened FPGAs
2020-04-17T01:58:32 < aandrew> yeah
2020-04-17T01:58:38 < ds2> I just don't mess with FPGA often enough to trust a toolchain that may disappear in a year
2020-04-17T01:59:18 < englishman> has that ever happened
2020-04-17T02:00:45 < ds2> between forced upgrades of windows, and having to renew their "free" license every 6-12 months...
2020-04-17T02:01:20 < aandrew> the biggest issue for me with lattice is the latter
2020-04-17T02:01:30 < ds2> someone should shove the idea of CI down FPGA designers throats }:-)
2020-04-17T02:01:31 < aandrew> I only have windows VMs so there's no forced update bs with me
2020-04-17T02:01:53 < ds2> aandrew: not if their "new" version of the SW requires newer windows or SPxxx or some other things
2020-04-17T02:01:58 < aandrew> I guess if I wanted to fuck with the clocks no license issues either
2020-04-17T02:02:09 < ds2> the whole force people onto 64bit windows just blows
2020-04-17T02:02:17 < aandrew> ds2: haven't had that happen yet with intel or lattice
2020-04-17T02:02:35 < ds2> aandrew: are you on 64bit already?
2020-04-17T02:02:52 < aandrew> yes for years
2020-04-17T02:03:01 < ds2> ah
2020-04-17T02:04:13 < englishman> uh
2020-04-17T02:04:41 < englishman> pretty sure winxp had a 64 bit edition
2020-04-17T02:04:49 < englishman> who is running a 32 bit os in 2020
2020-04-17T02:04:56 < englishman> do you have a 20 year old computer?
2020-04-17T02:05:47 < ds2> I have other vendor stuff that requires other stuff 
2020-04-17T02:06:13 < ds2> going to have to upgrade to 1 gigantic machine with 234894u1923402384092138409238409 vms soon
2020-04-17T02:06:18 < catphish> winxp did indeed have a 64 bit edition, it was rarely used though, because no apps were built for it anyway
2020-04-17T02:06:40 < ds2> it isn't so much if it had it or not, it is what is installed... 
2020-04-17T02:07:06 < ds2> windows apps have droppings all over the place
2020-04-17T02:07:08 < Laurenceb> wtf reee
2020-04-17T02:07:14 < Laurenceb> >all hardware stores closed
2020-04-17T02:07:18 < Laurenceb> >all fast food closed
2020-04-17T02:07:26 < Laurenceb> >all supermarkets closing at 8pm
2020-04-17T02:08:07 < Laurenceb> might as well die of covid-19 at this rate
2020-04-17T02:08:23 < ds2> black market opening up in the unused parts of the tube?
2020-04-17T02:08:30 < Laurenceb> heh
2020-04-17T02:09:00 < catphish> i don't think you're allowed to say "black" market any more
2020-04-17T02:09:08 < Laurenceb> lmao
2020-04-17T02:09:11 < catphish> it's offensive to coloured folk
2020-04-17T02:09:17 < Laurenceb> >differently coloured market
2020-04-17T02:09:44 < catphish> markets of color
2020-04-17T02:09:55 < Laurenceb> >photon absorbing market
2020-04-17T02:10:49 < ds2> the "underground" :D
2020-04-17T02:11:04 < Laurenceb> I need art straws to build stratosolar prototypes
2020-04-17T02:11:06 < Laurenceb> ree
2020-04-17T02:15:59 < aandrew> I do my FPGA dev on linux anyway but yeah
2020-04-17T02:16:17 < aandrew> ds2: I have one VM per tool for most of the big tools
2020-04-17T02:16:31 < aandrew> one env for altium, one for lattice/intel, etc.
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2020-04-17T02:17:24 < aandrew> "markets of colour" hah
2020-04-17T02:18:24 < ds2> aandrew: how do you share data between them?
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2020-04-17T02:18:54 < Cracki> vmware and virtualbox can do "shared folders", basically samba
2020-04-17T02:19:58 < Cracki> may be even better integrated, depending on the guest side additions/drivers that also handle mouse and keyboard focus
2020-04-17T02:20:25 < Cracki> working drag and drop of files into a guest isn't unheard of
2020-04-17T02:22:13 < ds2> so one must be very careful as to where things gets saved?
2020-04-17T02:22:38 < ds2> I wonder if it makes sense to use the roaming profile of windows to force things to be done in a certain way
2020-04-17T02:26:44 < aandrew> ds2: what do you mean? I have a projects drive that I share
2020-04-17T02:26:54 < aandrew> but I don't need altium looking at my HDL for example
2020-04-17T02:27:08 < ds2> software likes to default to all over 
2020-04-17T02:27:25 < aandrew> ds2: I run a business; my data has to be saved to a proper place anyway
2020-04-17T02:28:28 < ds2> aandrew: yes. But software likes to make that a fight
2020-04-17T02:28:29 < aandrew> my projects folder has all my active and semi-active projects. synchronized across laptop, workstation local fileserver (where it keeps last 5 changes to every file too) and also sync'd to a remote box. the local server stores shit on RAID6 and I have nightly incrementals going to S3
2020-04-17T02:28:35 < aandrew> ds2: no it doesn't
2020-04-17T02:28:37 < aandrew> not even remotely
2020-04-17T02:28:51 < ds2> aandrew: depends on what you are using.
2020-04-17T02:29:08 < ds2> i.e. my MCAD likes to save to the last place it opened a file
2020-04-17T02:29:09 < aandrew> the VMs map the server's projects folder to P: or /mnt/projects, it's all pretty much seamless
2020-04-17T02:29:16 < ds2> some likes to save to desktop
2020-04-17T02:29:25 < ds2> others like to dump to Documents
2020-04-17T02:29:34 < aandrew> ds2: you must use different software than I do, or are more sensitive to it than I am
2020-04-17T02:30:11 < aandrew> my projects data goes to /mnt/projects, no ands ifs or buts. if you ctrl-o and it defaults to my documents, you pull down "no asshat, /mnt/projects" or whatever
2020-04-17T02:30:50 < ds2> aandrew: different SW likely... I have ECAD/MCAD/SW etc. Data needs to go into the project's folder on a network drive but that's a fight
2020-04-17T02:31:05 < aandrew> altium does the right thing, quartus/icecube/diamond does the right thing, MS Office lieks to try to direct me to onedrive but fuck that, fusion360 does the right thing...
2020-04-17T02:31:24 < aandrew> ds2: I find it hard to believe it's that much of a fight or you just could not use it in any kind of business setting
2020-04-17T02:31:25 < Laurenceb> https://forum.nasaspaceflight.com/index.php?topic=50560.0
2020-04-17T02:31:30 < Laurenceb> my sides are orbital
2020-04-17T02:31:38 < aandrew> no sane business is going to let people store on the desktop 
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2020-04-17T02:31:44 < Laurenceb> stay away from drugs kids
2020-04-17T02:31:47 < ds2> aandrew: I am not used to windows. My main dev happens on Linux and I have no issues there
2020-04-17T02:32:06 < ds2> things just work. Hence why Eagle fits the flow
2020-04-17T02:32:24 < aandrew> Laurenceb: lol
2020-04-17T02:32:35 < aandrew> you should reply and ask him to grab his ankles firmly and hoist himself off the ground
2020-04-17T02:32:44 < aandrew> and when that fails to work, contemplate his propulsion idea
2020-04-17T02:33:04 < aandrew> was a long long long time user of eagle
2020-04-17T02:34:35 < aandrew> His formulation was composed of 10% camphor and equal parts nitroglycerine and collodion.
2020-04-17T02:34:44 < aandrew> wtf did he need the camphor for if he already had nitro
2020-04-17T02:35:15 < aandrew> next sentence says the camphor basically made nitro less explodey
2020-04-17T02:37:43 < aandrew> in related news: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Frog_galvanoscope
2020-04-17T02:44:34 < catphish> what is this? https://images-na.ssl-images-amazon.com/images/I/61AevSWmoyL._AC_SL1200_.jpg will it work? will it do normal swd stuff properly?
2020-04-17T02:48:40 < englishman> I am interested in compression of spring.
2020-04-17T02:48:53 < englishman> catphish: a stdink clone
2020-04-17T02:48:59 < englishman> just get a real one
2020-04-17T02:49:04 < englishman> they are like $20
2020-04-17T02:49:25 < catphish> looks like the common clone has no swo
2020-04-17T02:49:40 < englishman> this channel was once filled with people coming in here asking why their $5 china trash doesn't work
2020-04-17T02:49:47 < aandrew> get a nice jlink-edu for like $20 off digikey
2020-04-17T02:49:50 < englishman> afaik some of them are just a ftdi
2020-04-17T02:50:04 < englishman> not even a proper clone
2020-04-17T02:50:06 < englishman> or un
2020-04-17T02:50:09 < englishman> avrisp
2020-04-17T02:50:13 < englishman> with wrong label
2020-04-17T02:50:36 < englishman> wtf are you doing spending 200£ on a PCB and trying to save $5 on a debugger
2020-04-17T02:50:40 < englishman> fix your priorities
2020-04-17T02:51:06 < catphish> i actually just wanted something for an amazon basket for free delivery
2020-04-17T02:51:17 < catphish> but maybe i'll add a real st-link since i don't have one
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2020-04-17T02:56:58 < catphish> £18 for a genuine one!!!111111oneoneone
2020-04-17T02:57:27 < catphish> is that bascally a generic jtag interface too
2020-04-17T02:57:47 < catphish> sounds useful
2020-04-17T03:00:07 < Laurenceb> https://forum.nasaspaceflight.com/index.php?topic=49270.240
2020-04-17T03:00:11 < Laurenceb> they are still at it
2020-04-17T03:00:12 < Laurenceb> wow
2020-04-17T03:00:40 < Laurenceb> >So.... no device just yet.
2020-04-17T03:00:42 < Laurenceb> kek
2020-04-17T03:03:45 < bitmask> what else should my stupid power supply do
2020-04-17T03:04:30 < catphish> bitmask: depends what it already does
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2020-04-17T03:05:36 < bitmask> https://i.imgur.com/UY04M42.png
2020-04-17T03:06:07 < bitmask> cc/cv far left, 5v buck, 12v from input switching supply, right is variable buck
2020-04-17T03:06:41 < bitmask> main reason im doing it is for my electroplating stuff, but figured id add some somewhat useful extras for other project testing too 
2020-04-17T03:06:50 < bitmask> since I dont have a real bench supply
2020-04-17T03:08:29 < bitmask> I dont like how the speaker terminals (not sure the real name of the connectors) aren't lined up so I was gonna move the left two down to line up and then id have room on the top for another feature
2020-04-17T03:08:45 < bitmask> i'll probably just add some text or something though to fill it up
2020-04-17T03:08:57 < bitmask> or leave it
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2020-04-17T03:41:23 < bitmask> https://i.imgur.com/QmIWHGW.png
2020-04-17T03:43:24 < aandrew> your heated jacket is starting to have some feature creep
2020-04-17T03:44:40 < bitmask> like what
2020-04-17T03:46:00 < aandrew> well it's got a triple output power supply now for example
2020-04-17T03:46:16 < bitmask> ohhh haha
2020-04-17T04:07:04 < catphish> nice looking psu-brew :)
2020-04-17T04:08:39 < aandrew> not a PS-U-BREW ?
2020-04-17T04:19:06 < Laurenceb> inb4 all you need to do to stop coronavirus is wear a mask
2020-04-17T04:19:20 < Laurenceb> if this turns out to be true it will be facepalm of the millenium
2020-04-17T04:20:00 < dongs> oh i remember what i was gonna ask zyp
2020-04-17T04:20:11 < dongs> or anyone i guess, is there a working nfc antenna length calculator thing
2020-04-17T04:20:22 < dongs> to count how many loops or wahtnot i need
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2020-04-17T06:55:36 < antto> dongs there's one by ST, and one by NXP iirc
2020-04-17T06:56:31 < antto> hm, or was it just ST
2020-04-17T06:57:04 < antto> ST surely have some calculator for rectangular PCB antennas
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2020-04-17T07:13:51 < Thorn> soyuz returning to earth https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nsBcTR3gZvs
2020-04-17T07:15:15 < Thorn> hatch closing https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8BRrUe2vQqk undocking https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_um2b7q96WY landing https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P2Wvm6kUfGU
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2020-04-17T07:41:36 < jadew> Cracki, https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=F39kVKSCP40
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2020-04-17T08:10:33 -!- Netsplit *.net <-> *.split quits: beaky, yaqwsx, markus-k, ka6sox, filt3r, splud, nikomo
2020-04-17T08:13:15 < t4nk_freenode> does anyone know of some firmware to put into a blue pill, in order to program a second blue pill via serial?
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2020-04-17T08:13:51 < jpa-> t4nk_freenode: you can put blackmagic firmware to use it as a SWD programmer, at least
2020-04-17T08:14:08 < jpa-> i guess because blackmagic works also as a usb-serial converter you could use it for the serial bootloader also
2020-04-17T08:14:46 < t4nk_freenode> well, I ordered 3 pills, connected them to my st-link (all clones.. cks32f103, including st-link)
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2020-04-17T08:15:18 < t4nk_freenode> I created a usb cdc device for testers
2020-04-17T08:15:51 < t4nk_freenode> the device works, but since I didn't activate debug in stm32cubeide... I can't swd program the chip anymore
2020-04-17T08:16:02 < t4nk_freenode> I messed up 2 of the 3 chips like this
2020-04-17T08:16:08 < dongs> wat
2020-04-17T08:16:13 < dongs> thats not how it works
2020-04-17T08:16:29 < dongs> swd is always available unless you specifically disable it
2020-04-17T08:16:32 < t4nk_freenode> ehm.. I'm greener than a newbie on this
2020-04-17T08:16:35 < dongs> via option bytes or wahtever or after boot
2020-04-17T08:16:41 < dongs> connect under reset
2020-04-17T08:16:43 < dongs> to program
2020-04-17T08:16:53 < dongs> or use serial bootloader and wipe flash
2020-04-17T08:16:57 < dongs> if you think your code disables SWD on boot
2020-04-17T08:17:00 < t4nk_freenode> I'm pretty sure stm32cubeide and debugging disabled is the cause of this
2020-04-17T08:17:08 < dongs> no
2020-04-17T08:17:15 < dongs> cube can't be THAT retarded
2020-04-17T08:17:19 < t4nk_freenode> lol
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2020-04-17T08:24:32 < jpa-> if you disable the GPIO config for the SWD pins in cube, it probably disables SWD on boot
2020-04-17T08:24:37 < jpa-> but just connect under reset
2020-04-17T08:25:01 < upgrdman_> cool, got armhf pi image running in qemu. hopefully this will be easier than trying to cross-compile for armhf.
2020-04-17T08:25:03 < jpa-> hold down reset button while connecting or configure your debugger to do that
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2020-04-17T08:27:05 < t4nk_freenode> but look.. how do I 'connect under reset'? blue pill is connected via swd to the st-link
2020-04-17T08:27:24 < t4nk_freenode> nothing seems to happen if I hold reset and plug in the st-link 
2020-04-17T08:28:00 < t4nk_freenode> nothing happens when I leave the st-link connected and remove the power from the blue pill and then slip it back
2020-04-17T08:28:40 < t4nk_freenode> also note that these boards were supposed to have stm32 chips, but in fact have cks32f103c8t6 chips on them
2020-04-17T08:29:28 < dongs> lul
2020-04-17T08:29:49 < jpa-> hold down reset when you connect in whatever debugger software you use on the PC
2020-04-17T08:29:55 < t4nk_freenode> lul is dutch, and is an insult :|
2020-04-17T08:30:06 < jpa-> if you have the reset wire from st-link connected, you can configure the debugger software to do that automatically
2020-04-17T08:31:18 < t4nk_freenode> well, I was only able to use st-flash on the command line to program the chip
2020-04-17T08:31:46 < t4nk_freenode> had to use the master repo too, because 1.5.1 couldn't do it
2020-04-17T08:32:13 < t4nk_freenode> stm32cubeide will not debug at all with these boards! can't initialize
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2020-04-17T08:48:14 < dongs> https://github.com/platformio/platform-ststm32/issues/247 apparently coreID is different
2020-04-17T08:48:17 < dongs> on the clones
2020-04-17T08:48:18 < dongs> not that it matters idk
2020-04-17T08:48:34 < dongs> did you design this shit or did you buy t hese chink bluepill shits
2020-04-17T08:49:07 < antto> specing encouraged him iirc
2020-04-17T08:49:23 < t4nk_freenode> chink... they promised real stm32's, but to my grief I got ...
2020-04-17T08:49:24 < t4nk_freenode> lol
2020-04-17T08:49:26 < t4nk_freenode> anton?
2020-04-17T08:49:27 < t4nk_freenode> ;)
2020-04-17T08:50:06 < t4nk_freenode> nehow, on top of it all I am a linux user
2020-04-17T08:50:16 < dongs> ur basically fucked
2020-04-17T08:50:19 < dongs> at this point
2020-04-17T08:50:26 < dongs> plz install win10 to receive proper support
2020-04-17T08:50:26 < t4nk_freenode> so I don't even know about the st-link utility and 'under reset'
2020-04-17T08:50:29 < t4nk_freenode> lol
2020-04-17T08:50:39 < dongs> 'under reset' means you literally fucking hold reset pin
2020-04-17T08:50:46 < antto> t4nk_freenode where did you buy em from? alieggspress?
2020-04-17T08:50:46 < dongs> and then press enter in wahtever dumb debugger/whatever flasher
2020-04-17T08:51:25 < t4nk_freenode> yeh, I'm gonna have to solder that pin first methinks ;)
2020-04-17T08:52:08 < t4nk_freenode> looked around, found some old usb-serial cable, but it gives out some 6V, so I don't want to risk it
2020-04-17T08:52:39 < t4nk_freenode> so the option jpa- mentioned may be one.. the black magic thingie
2020-04-17T08:53:08 < t4nk_freenode> I also have a stm32f407vet6 board that works at least
2020-04-17T08:53:31 < t4nk_freenode> but in general.. yes, this is a big mess, and I am 'fucked'
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2020-04-17T08:54:26 < Thorn> the soyuz crew gets infected with CoV even before the hatch is opened
2020-04-17T08:55:10 < t4nk_freenode> yes, ali, antto, took 45 days to even receive the fakes
2020-04-17T08:56:59 < englishman> cks32f103 lol thats a new one
2020-04-17T08:57:16 < englishman> camp kill yourself 32
2020-04-17T08:58:03 < dongs> i mean why the fuck anyone would use F103 anyway
2020-04-17T08:58:12 < dongs> there's literally better and cheaper STM32s
2020-04-17T08:58:19 < dongs> in like 45 different families
2020-04-17T08:58:22 < dongs> why the fuck stick with garbage
2020-04-17T08:58:24 < antto> t4nk_freenode why not.. buy your chipz from an official distribut0r like mau5er or such?
2020-04-17T08:58:36 < dongs> even is topped using F103 on everythign except legacy shit that im too lazy to redo
2020-04-17T08:58:54 < antto> do you buy pics from alieggspress too?
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2020-04-17T09:03:22 < t4nk_freenode> no I have never bought pics from ae
2020-04-17T09:03:33 < Thorn> dongs the question is why anyone would use those "blue pill" boards
2020-04-17T09:04:28 < antto> blewpiwz
2020-04-17T09:04:36 < dongs> idk
2020-04-17T09:04:38 < dongs> retards
2020-04-17T09:04:41 < dongs> and t4nk_freenode apparently
2020-04-17T09:04:48 < antto> now now
2020-04-17T09:05:00 < antto> he got brainwashed into it by specing
2020-04-17T09:05:06 < antto> ..iirc
2020-04-17T09:06:28 < t4nk_freenode> well antto ... because 1 single f103 costs 4,44euro at mouser.. and 1 complete (and often genuine!) blue pill board costs 1,45euro including shipping
2020-04-17T09:06:31 < t4nk_freenode> and yes
2020-04-17T09:06:39 < t4nk_freenode> I got brainwashed into it
2020-04-17T09:06:55 < englishman> bet he also downloaded adacore
2020-04-17T09:06:56 < antto> that's why i use octopart to compare prices
2020-04-17T09:07:11 < t4nk_freenode> no, englishman, lol ... I did not :))
2020-04-17T09:07:16 < antto> and alishizzlepress is not there
2020-04-17T09:07:23 < t4nk_freenode> I'm a c++ and asm artist :)
2020-04-17T09:07:55 < t4nk_freenode> and ada smells foul
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2020-04-17T09:10:30 < t4nk_freenode> but uhm, dong, what would you suggest I could rather use for a chip?
2020-04-17T09:10:36 < t4nk_freenode> dongs, 
2020-04-17T09:10:37 < t4nk_freenode> .
2020-04-17T09:10:58 < Thorn> any stm32f0 that fits requirements
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2020-04-17T09:11:37 < Thorn> if f0 doesn't then f40x / f41x
2020-04-17T09:11:57 < Thorn> they should all be cheaper than f103
2020-04-17T09:12:49 < dongs> ^
2020-04-17T09:13:51 < englishman> why is this extreme cost savings an issue?
2020-04-17T09:14:45 < jpa-> because his time has no worth, apparently
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2020-04-17T09:15:21 < t4nk_freenode> I hope you're not talking about me here?
2020-04-17T09:15:31 < englishman> we are
2020-04-17T09:15:32 < t4nk_freenode> I never mentioned extreme savings
2020-04-17T09:15:54 < t4nk_freenode> I merely asked if he had a better suggestion then
2020-04-17T09:16:18 < antto> specing brainwashed him telling him how stm32 chipz on alishizzlepress are MUCH cheaper than his pics
2020-04-17T09:16:19 < englishman> suggestion for what exactly
2020-04-17T09:16:21 < Thorn> (and by f40x/f41x I mean f401 etc., not f407. the "entry level" subfamily)
2020-04-17T09:16:21 < antto> or some such
2020-04-17T09:17:01 < t4nk_freenode> yes, Thorn because the ones I just looked up were 11euro and 8euro's respectively
2020-04-17T09:17:40 < Thorn> https://lcsc.com/search?q=stm32f401
2020-04-17T09:19:55 < t4nk_freenode> well... that's in fact more expensive that the f103, though the specs are much better
2020-04-17T09:19:56 < englishman> does lcsc sell nucleos
2020-04-17T09:20:24 < dongs> no
2020-04-17T09:24:31 < Thorn> https://lcsc.com/search?q=stm32f103 dunno most if them seem > $3, just a few that are cheaper than $2.5
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2020-04-17T09:27:18 < dongs> https://lcsc.com/product-detail/ST-Microelectronics_STMicroelectronics-STM32F103C8T6_C8734.html C8 is 1.99 so yeah
2020-04-17T09:27:19 < t4nk_freenode> https://lcsc.com/product-detail/ST-Microelectronics_STMicroelectronics-STM32F103C8T6_C8734.html 1.8euro
2020-04-17T09:27:21 < dongs> but thats actually legit
2020-04-17T09:27:26 < dongs> and becomes 1.5 at 10_
2020-04-17T09:27:28 < dongs> still shit
2020-04-17T09:28:25 < t4nk_freenode> yeh, and don't forget that it's just the chip... 
2020-04-17T09:28:35 < dongs> and.......... ?
2020-04-17T09:29:27 < t4nk_freenode> AND.. a blue pill with a genuine stm32 can be had for 1,45euro including shipping
2020-04-17T09:29:38 < t4nk_freenode> it seems pretty obvious to me
2020-04-17T09:29:51 < englishman> so again
2020-04-17T09:29:55 < englishman> why the extreme cost saings
2020-04-17T09:29:59 < englishman> vs $10 nucleo
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2020-04-17T09:30:19 < Thorn> congrats, you have outcheaped me. didn't know it was possible
2020-04-17T09:30:23 < t4nk_freenode> hehe
2020-04-17T09:30:26 < englishman> same
2020-04-17T09:30:38 < dongs> christ, how many are you buying that waiting 45 days and gettingf fuckall done vs spendign $10 and having work next day
2020-04-17T09:30:54 < dongs> that doesnt make sense
2020-04-17T09:31:07 < t4nk_freenode> I agree to some extent, yes.
2020-04-17T09:31:08 < antto> impulsive purchasing
2020-04-17T09:31:22 < antto> tricked by marketing
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2020-04-17T09:38:29 < Thorn> 29 year old man died of CoV in Moscow. had viral/bacterial pneumonia with a hemorrhagic component
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2020-04-17T09:47:25 < dongs> was anything else wrong?
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2020-04-17T09:47:35 < dongs> like fat fuck or wahtever
2020-04-17T09:49:07 < Thorn> dunno not reported
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2020-04-17T10:18:04 < dongs> holy shit keil packs shit is just complete fucking cancer
2020-04-17T10:18:15 < dongs> trying to doubleclick a nrf keil exmaple and its a complete waste of time
2020-04-17T10:18:24 < dongs> needs/depends on some old cmsis, old packs, old shit, old faggotry holy fuck
2020-04-17T10:18:27 < dongs> cant even build that shit
2020-04-17T10:18:30 < dongs> worse than lunix makefiles
2020-04-17T10:18:58 < antto> aww
2020-04-17T10:19:18 < t4nk_freenode> is that the free version?
2020-04-17T10:20:54 < Thorn> dongs: dear sir, in my current project I have 3 different firmwares for 2 different hardware configs, and I can build / flash / debug any of them on any board connected to my pc (even if there are more than one) with a single make command. can you do that with keil?
2020-04-17T10:21:27 < dongs> yeah i can
2020-04-17T10:21:33 < dongs> when i make the project myself
2020-04-17T10:21:36 < qyx> yeah, with a makefile just type 'make' without even touching your ncov enhanced mouse
2020-04-17T10:22:07 < dongs> i have some projects that are targeting 2 completely different c hips (F401 and F302), building for them is just a target change away
2020-04-17T10:22:19 < dongs> and those have different hardware revisions with different pinout.
2020-04-17T10:22:21 < antto> Thorn isn't that what IDEs do as well?
2020-04-17T10:22:23 < dongs> very easy to manage.
2020-04-17T10:22:39 < dongs> the problem here is keil examples are built with garbage
2020-04-17T10:24:10 < antto> garbage?
2020-04-17T10:24:16 < dongs> yeah
2020-04-17T10:24:23 < antto> they expect you to use it like: https://drama.bg/wp-content/uploads/2018/04/kloshar-otkri-zlato-i-pari-v-konteijner-za-bokluk-283598-598x325.png
2020-04-17T10:27:03 < dongs> oh what the hell
2020-04-17T10:27:10 < dongs> apparently there's different levels of SDK too
2020-04-17T10:27:18 < dongs> examples use one thing and there's another thing called NRFX
2020-04-17T10:27:23 < dongs> watthefuck
2020-04-17T10:28:24 < dongs> https://devzone.nordicsemi.com/f/nordic-q-a/32919/nrfx-sdk-15-upgrade-suggestions
2020-04-17T10:28:27 < dongs> lul
2020-04-17T10:28:33 < dongs> All the examples in the new SDK use the legacy drivers but the migration guide suggests moving to the new nRFx API. 
2020-04-17T10:28:38 < dongs> great!
2020-04-17T10:34:28 < dongs> https://devzone.nordicsemi.com/f/nordic-q-a/53159/sdk-twi-documentation-and-nrfx
2020-04-17T10:34:28 < dongs> wow
2020-04-17T10:34:31 < dongs> its a complete clusterfuck
2020-04-17T10:34:36 < dongs> how does anyone manage to get anythign done on nrf
2020-04-17T10:34:39 < dongs> do tehy just use retarduino lol
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2020-04-17T10:40:46 < dongs> https://devzone.nordicsemi.com/f/nordic-q-a/45771/need-a-path-through-the-twi-i2c-configuration-maze
2020-04-17T10:40:50 < dongs> gets better
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2020-04-17T10:54:59 < dongs> i still have no idea how to bring up a nrf device for simple gpio and I2C
2020-04-17T10:55:03 < dongs> this is ridiculous
2020-04-17T10:58:04 < t4nk_freenode> what's ridiculous, is the fact that I can't even download from st.com.
2020-04-17T10:59:17 < dongs> thats nothign new
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2020-04-17T11:04:36 < jpa-> dongs: yeah, NRF5 sdk is pretty weird, took me quite a bit of time to get it working also
2020-04-17T11:05:01 < jpa-> and the new vs. legacy vs. extra-legacy driver situation is ridiculous
2020-04-17T11:06:56 < dongs> uh
2020-04-17T11:07:13 < dongs> wehre is docs for all that shit?
2020-04-17T11:08:03 < jpa-> https://infocenter.nordicsemi.com/topic/struct_sdk/struct/sdk_nrf5_latest.html
2020-04-17T11:09:14 < jpa-> other fun stuff: the bluetooth softdevice works so that if you pause stuff in debugger even for a few seconds, it will assert() on resume
2020-04-17T11:09:27 < Steffanx> Awesome
2020-04-17T11:10:07 < dongs> i have sdk16
2020-04-17T11:10:11 < dongs> all their examples use old api
2020-04-17T11:10:26 < dongs> ther'es no fucking "include this and this to make blink.exe"
2020-04-17T11:10:27 < jpa-> also, the bootloader documentation is really crappy and IIRC the boot jumps through like 3 or 4 bootloaders before reaching your application, and they don't get included in the .elf by default, so flashing after full erase is interesting
2020-04-17T11:11:02 < dongs> why is there like 200 softdevices
2020-04-17T11:11:08 < dongs> which one to use
2020-04-17T11:11:46 < jpa-> i used s132nrf52701, because i had nrf52701 and 132 seemed like a fun version number
2020-04-17T11:11:48 < Thorn> yeah that's how I learned about "monitor mode debugging"
2020-04-17T11:12:02 < Thorn> why not include a separate core for the softdevice
2020-04-17T11:12:18 < zyp> that'd make it a harddevice
2020-04-17T11:13:02 < jpa-> silicon labs stuff is a little bit less silly with their softdevice, it will just recover after the pause that of course can cause disconnections
2020-04-17T11:13:41 < Thorn> a 8051 can be very small in terms of silicon area if I understand correctly
2020-04-17T11:13:43 < jpa-> i guess some RTOS might support application level debugging (pause just a single thread), but that's probably more effort to get set up than it is worth
2020-04-17T11:14:10 < jpa-> Thorn: the main criteria in BLE stuff is power usage
2020-04-17T11:14:21 < jpa-> you'll never make two cores use less power than a single core would
2020-04-17T11:14:56 < dongs> https://infocenter.nordicsemi.com/index.jsp?topic=%2Fcom.nordic.infocenter.sdk5.v12.2.0%2Fgroup__nrf__twim__hal.html best kind of documentation
2020-04-17T11:15:01 < dongs> might as well not even make this sorta shit
2020-04-17T11:15:10 < dongs> i fucking hate doxygen and how it creates non-documentation
2020-04-17T11:16:16 < jpa-> i just went for the registers, they are quite understandable
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2020-04-17T11:19:49 < t4nk_freenode> seriously... what on EarTh is going on with st.com, I just can't seem to download anything at all.. as soon as I'm logged in ... the download buttons are gone from the pages
2020-04-17T11:19:55 < Thorn> gowin has an fpga with a ble core
2020-04-17T11:20:09 < dongs> they dont like you
2020-04-17T11:20:21 < t4nk_freenode> 19feb someone asked this question via community.st.com .. not a single response
2020-04-17T11:20:40 < t4nk_freenode> did I hear someone mention time being precious?
2020-04-17T11:20:49 < jpa-> i think st's site is designed so that you spend as much time as possible there, to increase ad revenue; they just forgot to put on the ads
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2020-04-17T11:21:24 < t4nk_freenode> but... it's utterly useless!
2020-04-17T11:23:52 < dongs> exit your browser once
2020-04-17T11:24:04 < dongs> ive had the dumb site break when they set a downlaod cookie and then failed something
2020-04-17T11:24:07 < dongs> so clicking download did nothing
2020-04-17T11:24:09 < dongs> even if you logged in
2020-04-17T11:24:13 < dongs> their shit is dumb and broken
2020-04-17T11:27:45 < t4nk_freenode> guys... this is really unbelievable, What. A. Mess!! I finally got through
2020-04-17T11:27:48 < t4nk_freenode> ffs
2020-04-17T11:29:22 < Thorn> lol, try working with something adults use, like fpgas or qualcomm chips
2020-04-17T11:31:39 < dongs> jpa-: so uh, im not gonna be able to step through something with a shitdevice?
2020-04-17T11:32:46 < Thorn> dongs you will, but it's going to crash when you press contiinue
2020-04-17T11:32:54 < dongs> why
2020-04-17T11:33:40 < Thorn> interrupts not serviced while the core is stopped -> softdevice state becomes corrupt or something
2020-04-17T11:34:03 < Thorn> btw isn't there an open source ble stack for nrf?
2020-04-17T11:34:35 < dongs> \i have no idea
2020-04-17T11:34:44 < dongs> right now i cant find anything of value at all
2020-04-17T11:34:45 < Thorn> if it works well enough then you can avoid the shitdevice or sdk
2020-04-17T11:35:04 < dongs> do you think opensores have gone that far?
2020-04-17T11:35:06 < dongs> i kinda doubt it
2020-04-17T11:35:10 < dongs> this is 52840 btw so not old stuff
2020-04-17T11:40:24 < Thorn> https://github.com/apache/mynewt-nimble
2020-04-17T11:40:55 < Thorn> >completely replaces the proprietary SoftDevice on Nordic chipsets >Bluetooth Mesh >all 4 roles concurrently
2020-04-17T11:40:58 < PaulFertser> dongs: but you have jlink rtt instead of stepping
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2020-04-17T11:41:10 < dongs> PaulFertser: that is fucking garbage lmao printf debugging
2020-04-17T11:41:17 < dongs> if im gonna printf debug i might as well just use arduino???
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2020-04-17T11:43:43 < dongs> Thorn: that shit doesnt even support HID lmao
2020-04-17T11:43:53 < dongs> https://github.com/apache/mynewt-nimble/pull/37/files
2020-04-17T11:45:20 < dongs> llul 4 years ago
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2020-04-17T11:50:14 < PaulFertser> I wonder why they do not mention any RE or register level description etc, how did they manage to replace softdevice without that?
2020-04-17T11:53:49 < dongs> its probably "documented"
2020-04-17T11:53:54 < dongs> in the same way all NRF shit is documented
2020-04-17T11:55:11 < jpa-> https://infocenter.nordicsemi.com/index.jsp?topic=%2Fps_nrf52840%2Fradio.html&cp=4_0_0_5_19  yeah, the registers are described in manufacturer ref man
2020-04-17T11:55:46 < dongs> that infocenter.* thing is literally the worst way to present documentation
2020-04-17T11:55:49 < dongs> its so fucking slow
2020-04-17T11:55:52 < dongs> and dumb
2020-04-17T11:56:00 < dongs> i downloaded offline sdk16 shit
2020-04-17T11:56:09 < dongs> ahd more htan half hte links in it that i clicked
2020-04-17T11:56:12 < dongs> still go back to online version
2020-04-17T11:56:15 < dongs> completely fucking sueelss.
2020-04-17T11:56:20 < jpa-> infocenter.arm has had a banner saying they'll have something new for a few months now, i wonder how much crappier that will be
2020-04-17T11:56:21 < antto> do you NOT feel informed now? ;P~
2020-04-17T11:56:24 < Thorn> https://infocenter.nordicsemi.com/pdf/nRF52832_PS_v1.4.pdf
2020-04-17T11:56:51 < dongs> trhats jsut a datasheet
2020-04-17T11:56:53 < dongs> that does nothign about software.
2020-04-17T11:56:58 < Thorn> ^ contains radio functional & register documentation on some level
2020-04-17T11:57:10 < dongs> i am not going to fucking implement radio shit from scratch
2020-04-17T11:57:28 < Thorn> lol
2020-04-17T11:58:15 < PaulFertser> I assumed they do not distribute softdevice source code because they're not willing to share register level docs. heh
2020-04-17T11:58:51 < dongs> nah prolly just cuz they dont want to show their shitty code
2020-04-17T11:58:59 < dongs> or they bought it from someone else
2020-04-17T11:59:01 < dongs> like the ANT shit
2020-04-17T11:59:05 < dongs> which they can't even distribute themselves
2020-04-17T12:06:18 < dongs> jpa-: is there a todo: for soc initialization? if so where the fuck is this documented? like turn on clocks, rcc. whatever
2020-04-17T12:06:35 < dongs> i wish all thier fucking examples didnt just have shit like bsp_init_board() without explaining anything
2020-04-17T12:08:10 < Thorn> dongs same Product Specification
2020-04-17T12:08:34 < jpa-> dongs: this is what i have http://paste.dy.fi/Gpk/plain
2020-04-17T12:09:40 < dongs> uhh that uses the sdk isnt it
2020-04-17T12:09:45 < dongs> i got rid of all that fcking nrf log check shit
2020-04-17T12:09:57 < jpa-> bsp_init() comes from their sdk, it does some crazy shit but is required by other components i think, you'll need a custom_board.h for giving it some leds it can blink if you want
2020-04-17T12:10:16 < zyp> I can confirm nrf radio regs are openly documented
2020-04-17T12:10:38 < zyp> I wrote some code from scratch last year that sets up the radio and receives zigbee packets
2020-04-17T12:10:51 < dongs> so to blink something I dont need to do anything other than nrf_gpio_cfg_output() but oh wait, thats legacy api
2020-04-17T12:11:01 < dongs> and new one isnt documented
2020-04-17T12:11:02 < dongs> W T F
2020-04-17T12:11:08 < jpa-> dongs: yeah, i use the SDK for initialization because of softdevice, if you use softdevice all the clocks etc. are mostly locked to fixed values anyway i think
2020-04-17T12:12:18 < dongs> ok shit is in nrfx_hal, so hopefully just wrappers
2020-04-17T12:13:58 < jpa-> oh it is wrappers all the way down
2020-04-17T12:16:05 < jpa-> http://paste.dy.fi/fWe/plain  actually only two levels, not that bad
2020-04-17T12:16:15 < dongs> yeah
2020-04-17T12:16:46 < jpa-> i kinda like how the nrf chips have the whole config for a single pin in a single register
2020-04-17T12:17:03 < dongs> welp, nrf_delay is part of somethign esle
2020-04-17T12:17:22 < zyp> yeah, nrf got some things right
2020-04-17T12:17:28 < zyp> and some things weird
2020-04-17T12:17:30 < dongs> thats... a sdk libraries component, great
2020-04-17T12:18:42 < dongs> woohoo i think i might have a blink.exe soon
2020-04-17T12:19:54 < dongs> ~full chip erase takes... forever...
2020-04-17T12:19:55 < dongs> what
2020-04-17T12:20:14 < jpa-> haha, full chip erase! have fun trying to get anything running after that!
2020-04-17T12:20:16 < dongs> and still fails to flash download...
2020-04-17T12:20:24 < dongs> i dont care, i literally just wrote a thing that toggles gpuio
2020-04-17T12:20:27 < dongs> nothing else is included
2020-04-17T12:20:46 < jpa-> yes, and it's probably linked to run on top of the bazillion bootloaders
2020-04-17T12:20:51 < dongs> nope
2020-04-17T12:21:00 < jpa-> you made custom .ld?
2020-04-17T12:21:07 < dongs> i am not using gcc lol
2020-04-17T12:22:12 < dongs> - Start of flash programming
2020-04-17T12:22:12 < dongs>  - Programming range 0x00000000 - 0x00001FFF (  2 Sectors, 8 KB)
2020-04-17T12:22:12 < dongs>  - ERROR: Programming failed @ address 0x00000000 (block verification error)
2020-04-17T12:22:13 < dongs>  - End of flash programming
2020-04-17T12:22:13 < dongs> wut
2020-04-17T12:22:16 < dongs> the fuck
2020-04-17T12:22:20 < zyp> fun
2020-04-17T12:22:29 < zyp> maybe it'd work if you used gcc
2020-04-17T12:22:36 < dongs> lol.
2020-04-17T12:22:44 < dongs> i wouldnt evne be at this point if i was using gcc
2020-04-17T12:22:45 < jpa-> maybe it is write protected
2020-04-17T12:22:48 < dongs> by what
2020-04-17T12:22:54 < dongs> i did full chip erase
2020-04-17T12:23:01 < dongs> before that it just had retarduino bootloader on it
2020-04-17T12:23:06 < dongs> and softdevice orhatever
2020-04-17T12:23:07 < jpa-> yeah, but does full chip erase erase protection
2020-04-17T12:23:10 < dongs> deleted all taht
2020-04-17T12:23:34 < dongs> ok oops
2020-04-17T12:23:39 < dongs> did chip erase from jflash, that worked proeprly
2020-04-17T12:23:49 < dongs> and was instant too
2020-04-17T12:25:00 < zyp> https://paste.jvnv.net/view/PxQgj <- here's my code that sets up the radio, receives packets and sends them to the host via usb
2020-04-17T12:25:09 < dongs> > python
2020-04-17T12:25:14 < dongs> wait no
2020-04-17T12:25:17 < dongs> wtf thats some crazy cpp
2020-04-17T12:25:31 < zyp> it's based on laks like all my other mcu code
2020-04-17T12:25:40 < jpa-> zyp's c++ is so pretty it almost looks like python
2020-04-17T12:25:50 < dongs> nrf_delay_ms(500) doesn't acutally delay for 500 ms
2020-04-17T12:25:55 < dongs> but more like instant return
2020-04-17T12:25:56 < dongs> lolz.
2020-04-17T12:26:43 < dongs>  * @brief Macro for delaying the code execution for at least the specified time.
2020-04-17T12:26:43 < dongs>  *
2020-04-17T12:26:43 < dongs>  * @param us_time Number of microseconds to wait.
2020-04-17T12:26:43 < dongs>  */
2020-04-17T12:26:43 < dongs> #define NRFX_DELAY_US(us_time)
2020-04-17T12:26:45 < dongs> LOL.
2020-04-17T12:26:55 < dongs> .
2020-04-17T12:26:59 < dongs> what the actual. fuck.
2020-04-17T12:28:24 < dongs> i see older SDKs the define is #define 	NRFX_DELAY_US(us_time)   nrfx_coredep_delay_us(us_time)
2020-04-17T12:29:02 < jpa-> is that from the empty template file?
2020-04-17T12:29:19 < dongs> ?
2020-04-17T12:29:34 < dongs> its in templates yes, what the fuck else would it be?
2020-04-17T12:29:49 < jpa-> the one that says "THIS IS A TEMPLATE FILE. .... the following macros should be provided ..."
2020-04-17T12:29:50 < dongs> nrf_sniffing_glue.h
2020-04-17T12:30:06 < dongs> yes, exactly
2020-04-17T12:30:09 < jpa-> nRF5_SDK/integration/nrfx/nrfx_glue.h is more useful
2020-04-17T12:30:37 < jpa-> which is glue that ties nrfx to .... nrfx?
2020-04-17T12:31:37 < dongs> thats... going to pull a bunch of SDK shite in
2020-04-17T12:32:19 < jpa-> yeah
2020-04-17T12:32:35 < jpa-> you expected to be able to sleep without 100kB of sdk code?
2020-04-17T12:33:08 < jpa-> time for good old   for (volatile int i = 0; i < foo; i++);
2020-04-17T12:33:25 < dongs> or find that coredep_delay shit
2020-04-17T12:34:01 < antto> detective dongs
2020-04-17T12:36:12 < dongs> yes, i have blink
2020-04-17T12:36:13 < dongs> holy shit.
2020-04-17T12:36:30 < dongs> Program Size: Code=752 RO-data=552 RW-data=4 ZI-data=8196  
2020-04-17T12:36:43 < dongs> 8196 is prolly default 8k stack or something
2020-04-17T12:37:22 < jpa-> such blink
2020-04-17T12:37:29 < jpa-> much small
2020-04-17T12:38:26 < antto> smol
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2020-04-17T15:02:38 < aandrew> zyp: wow that's some pretty lean code. what's the library you're using that lets you do that
2020-04-17T15:02:45 < aandrew> laks ahh
2020-04-17T15:05:34 < zyp> yeah, and partly the fact that the hardware defaults doesn't require a lot of stuff to be set up
2020-04-17T15:06:13 < aandrew> nah man, that USB class instantiation is hiding a LOT of gore
2020-04-17T15:06:43 < aandrew> that class "carpet" is lumpy and soggy with the decaying body of USB periph init rotting under it
2020-04-17T15:06:45 < dongs> gcc gore
2020-04-17T15:06:50 < dongs> tho i did get that to build in keil
2020-04-17T15:06:53 < dongs> mnus the rblog shit
2020-04-17T15:06:58 < dongs> that was beyond un-gcc'ing
2020-04-17T15:07:14 < aandrew> but yes nrf24 is pretty sane once you wrap your head around it
2020-04-17T15:07:22 < zyp> aandrew, https://paste.jvnv.net/view/URopk
2020-04-17T15:07:46 < dongs> gotta love the magic numbers
2020-04-17T15:07:50 < dongs> poking magic adresses
2020-04-17T15:07:52 < aandrew> you know what I love best about C++? how you put fucking code in the header files
2020-04-17T15:07:52 < dongs> without any comments
2020-04-17T15:08:02 < zyp> dongs, those are in the errata sheet or some shit
2020-04-17T15:08:06 < aandrew> *(volatile uint32_t*)0x4006ec00 = 0x00009375;
2020-04-17T15:08:15 < aandrew> what, you don't immediately know what that is doing? what kind of pro are you
2020-04-17T15:08:20 < zyp> «usb doesn't work? poke this magic addrs without explanation»
2020-04-17T15:08:36 < zyp> those addrs are not documented anywhere
2020-04-17T15:08:51 < zyp> they are not part of any defined peripheral space IIRC
2020-04-17T15:09:00 < dongs> i still ahven't found a proper example of using twim
2020-04-17T15:09:28 < dongs> there's nrf_twi, nrfx_twi, nrf_twim, nrfx_twim, and also the sdk 'driver' on top of that with both _twi and _twim versions
2020-04-17T15:09:39 < dongs> documentation is amazing
2020-04-17T15:09:44 < zyp> I mean, seriously, take a look at page 19 here: https://infocenter.nordicsemi.com/pdf/nRF52840_Rev_2_Errata_v1.0.pdf
2020-04-17T15:10:06 < dongs>  /** @brief TWI event handler prototype. */
2020-04-17T15:10:11 < dongs> thats fucking it
2020-04-17T15:10:14 < dongs> what do you do there?
2020-04-17T15:10:15 < dongs> what aclls it?
2020-04-17T15:10:16 < dongs> why?
2020-04-17T15:10:21 < dongs> what are the evnts im supposed to care about?
2020-04-17T15:10:23 < dongs> nope. nothing
2020-04-17T15:10:27 < dongs> fucking doxygen
2020-04-17T15:10:30 < dongs> opensores faggotware
2020-04-17T15:11:02 < aandrew> nrf has a lot of iffy peripherals
2020-04-17T15:11:22 < dongs> i don't care if they're iffy
2020-04-17T15:11:39 < dongs> shits been around for > 5 years now
2020-04-17T15:11:53 < zyp> the «let's break every byte in the SETUP packet out into a 32-bit reg» is also silly
2020-04-17T15:12:33 < aandrew> Nordic's hal wasn't bad, but then they changed everything which caused a lot of pain a few years back, and about the same time they completely redesigned their infocentre making it total dogshit
2020-04-17T15:12:51 < dongs> they changed it again
2020-04-17T15:12:55 < aandrew> been a while since I've fought with USB on STM32 or nRF52
2020-04-17T15:13:02 < aandrew> dongs: ugh
2020-04-17T15:13:07 < dongs> im not even gonna bother with usb on this i think
2020-04-17T15:13:30 < zyp> oh well
2020-04-17T15:13:51 < zyp> I'm working on my own usb periph again
2020-04-17T15:14:00 < dongs> err_code = 0x0BAD0000 NRFX_SUCCESS
2020-04-17T15:14:11 < aandrew> $contract1 uses stdperiph and stm32plus, it's no bueno
2020-04-17T15:19:36 < dongs> * @note TX-RX and TX-TX transfers are supported only in non-blocking mode.
2020-04-17T15:19:38 < dongs> fucking hell
2020-04-17T15:19:41 < aandrew> lots of templating to instantiate timers and shit
2020-04-17T15:19:54 < aandrew> dongs: nrf i2c?
2020-04-17T15:21:09 < mawk> nrf52840
2020-04-17T15:21:11 < mawk> my favorite soc
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2020-04-17T15:21:27 < aandrew> Ilike nrf52
2020-04-17T15:21:39 < aandrew> fixes a lot of the stupids in nrf51
2020-04-17T15:22:59 < dongs> https://www.google.com/search?q=NRFX_TWIM_XFER_DESC_TX
2020-04-17T15:23:06 < dongs> you know NOBODY uses that shit if theres only 8 links on google
2020-04-17T15:23:11 < dongs> all of them pointing to nordic docs.
2020-04-17T15:23:13 < dongs> what the fuck
2020-04-17T15:23:57 < dongs> how do i even use that gay macro. i think it fills up the struct but i fail to understand where it goes
2020-04-17T15:24:18 < dongs> lol at releasing a library with zero examples
2020-04-17T15:25:26 < dongs> const nrfx_twim_xfer_desc_t write1 = NRFX_TWIM_XFER_DESC_TX(addr, &reg, 1);
2020-04-17T15:25:27 < dongs> i guess this
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2020-04-17T15:32:11 < dongs> nice
2020-04-17T15:32:20 < dongs> its locked up in some bullshit nrf state machien
2020-04-17T15:32:23 < dongs> what a surprse 
2020-04-17T15:33:00 < dongs> uint8_t               address;          ///< Slave address.
2020-04-17T15:33:15 < dongs> would it haev killed to mention if this is 7 or 8 bit?
2020-04-17T15:42:54 < dongs> wow
2020-04-17T15:42:55 < dongs> worked.
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2020-04-17T15:46:54 < Cracki> code comments are art https://i.pinimg.com/originals/04/a3/af/04a3aff31aaa37ee619313623fc56071.gif
2020-04-17T15:47:38 < aandrew> dongs: I've actually been really quite pleasantly surprised with adafruit's "bluefruit" BLE shits
2020-04-17T15:47:49 < dongs> uh yeah but that requires usign retarduino
2020-04-17T15:47:52 < dongs> and c++
2020-04-17T15:47:55 < dongs> so im not sure how thats helpful
2020-04-17T15:48:08 < aandrew> it actually lets you create custom services/characteristics and does all the right things for granting low level access to CCCD changes and so on
2020-04-17T15:48:20 < dongs> they hired some viet dude to do all teh shit properly
2020-04-17T15:48:20 < aandrew> yeah I know, I'm not saying use it for your application, just commenting
2020-04-17T15:48:32 < dongs> how would yo ueven use it outside of retarduino?
2020-04-17T15:48:36 < aandrew> you don't
2020-04-17T15:48:38 < dongs> lul
2020-04-17T15:48:39 < dongs> yea no
2020-04-17T15:48:49 < dongs> a dude here is doing a proj with that
2020-04-17T15:48:50 < dongs> it takes
2020-04-17T15:48:51 < aandrew> I've actually written lots of ble shit for nrf51/52 with the proper APIs and so on
2020-04-17T15:48:52 < dongs> 30 seconds to rebuild
2020-04-17T15:48:56 < dongs> EVERY. FUCKING. TIME.
2020-04-17T15:48:57 < aandrew> yes it does
2020-04-17T15:49:00 < aandrew> every. fucking. time
2020-04-17T15:49:01 < dongs> on his laptop it takes like 2 mins
2020-04-17T15:49:15 < aandrew> dongs: give the dude a real laptop
2020-04-17T15:49:20 < dongs> no fuck him
2020-04-17T15:53:19 < dongs> anyway the insanity that is retarduino "ide" is just mind boggling. how can it been around for like a decade+ and still has no way to cache intermediate build resutls or wahtever
2020-04-17T15:53:36 < dongs> and it still just does cat *.ino > lol.cpp and then fucks off compiling it
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2020-04-17T15:56:31 < dongs> now i gotta write a driver for LC709203F
2020-04-17T15:57:00 < dongs> orr maybe i can jsut copypaste some shit from shithub
2020-04-17T15:57:05 < dongs> looks like theres a few bits
2020-04-17T15:57:08 < dongs> less work 
2020-04-17T15:58:02 < dongs> https://android.googlesource.com/kernel/tegra/+/android-tegra-flounder-3.10-lollipop-release/drivers/power/lc709203f_battery.c
2020-04-17T15:58:05 < dongs> nice
2020-04-17T15:58:06 < dongs> i guess im done
2020-04-17T16:05:24 < catphish> i wonder if theree
2020-04-17T16:05:45 < dongs> it needs deniggering tho
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2020-04-17T16:05:50 < dongs> but less shit to type = win
2020-04-17T16:05:58 < catphish> *i wonder if there's a kicad library with only jlcpcb components, with their LSCS references already set
2020-04-17T16:06:10 < catphish> that would make designing for cheap prototyping a joy
2020-04-17T16:09:33 < catphish> are you allowed to say deniggering?
2020-04-17T16:13:03 < Thorn> catphish: there is such a thing for their online EasyEDA. no idea if it can be exported
2020-04-17T16:13:28 < aandrew> fuel gauge huh
2020-04-17T16:16:10 < Thorn> so I've been fucking with a pair of rfm69 equipped devices (remotely), only got them to reliably transmit data after I set preamble length to 150 (not sure which unit it's using but probably bytes). does it point to horrible antennas? my pair of rfm69 works almost ideally with same settings and a preamble length of 5
2020-04-17T16:17:29 < srk> or noiz
2020-04-17T16:17:42 < zyp> bits? bytes?
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2020-04-17T16:17:51 < srk> symbols :D
2020-04-17T16:18:48 < Thorn> zyp: there is one figure in datasheet that says "bytes", otherwise no idea. I still can't get my SDR to show me the packets in detall (not just as smears on the waterfall)
2020-04-17T16:20:25 < BrainDamage> that's a symptom of the pll not locking in the rx, it mostly likely is a consequence of poor SNR but you shouldn't exclude other sources eg bad xtal
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2020-04-17T16:21:29 < Thorn> poor snr can come either from the air or from bad power?
2020-04-17T16:21:56 < zyp> poor snr can come from anywhere that adds noise
2020-04-17T16:28:00 < Thorn> well at least it leaves me in the clear wrt my code being buggy
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2020-04-17T16:28:08 < Thorn> thanks
2020-04-17T16:31:34 < Laurenceb> keek wtf https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/education-52309763
2020-04-17T16:31:45 < Laurenceb> >estimate ur grades
2020-04-17T16:35:04 < mawk> 30/20
2020-04-17T16:35:15 < aandrew> mawk got an A+ in maths
2020-04-17T16:35:21 < mawk> of course
2020-04-17T16:35:31 < mawk> (1/0) * 0 = 1
2020-04-17T16:36:16 < mawk> catphish: why wouldn't he be allowed to say it ?
2020-04-17T16:36:25 < mawk> he got a special permit for a selective set of words
2020-04-17T16:36:41 < mawk> you're from license-land, you should know about special permits and exemptions
2020-04-17T16:38:09 < Cracki> bongland is a meme https://pbs.twimg.com/media/EVzqKXeXYAIpddl.png
2020-04-17T16:38:45 < catphish> mawk: i might apply for one of those
2020-04-17T16:47:47 < Cracki> dating advice: forget tinder https://pbs.twimg.com/media/EVzLwOlWoAEYz4j.jpg
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2020-04-17T16:52:36 < PaulFertser> Why forget tinder? Because non-free?
2020-04-17T16:52:37 < catphish> the police are going to have a hard time justifying that
2020-04-17T16:53:15 < Cracki> tinder is bottom of the barrel. successful ones are successful elsewhere.
2020-04-17T16:53:36  * catphish has never tindered :(
2020-04-17T16:53:49 < catphish> i was too successful elsewhere
2020-04-17T16:54:03 < catphish> and now i'm not allowed
2020-04-17T16:54:12 < PaulFertser> What about grindr?
2020-04-17T16:55:47 < aandrew> I feel that 'grindr' is probably a lot more dangerous in .ru
2020-04-17T16:56:30 < PaulFertser> I saw some statistics measuring the level of mobile app user happiness worldwide, and grindr was the topmost dissatisfying one.
2020-04-17T16:56:40 < dongs> is it cuz its gay
2020-04-17T16:56:48 < catphish> it is quite gay
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2020-04-17T17:06:29 < dongs> To wake up from Sleep mode, and to start I2C
2020-04-17T17:06:29 < dongs> communication, Host side must set SDA low prior to the I2C
2020-04-17T17:06:29 < dongs> communication. The Fuel Gauge LSI enables I2C
2020-04-17T17:06:29 < dongs> communication after the TWU time period which is
2020-04-17T17:06:32 < dongs> measured from the falling edge of SDA, as above timing
2020-04-17T17:06:34 < dongs> chart.
2020-04-17T17:06:37 < dongs> what the hell why
2020-04-17T17:06:51 < dongs> why would i need to fucking dick with SDA GPIO directly just to wake this dumb shit up
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2020-04-17T17:11:39 < zyp> haha, fuck off
2020-04-17T17:12:04 < zyp> as if I2C wasn't fragile enough already
2020-04-17T17:12:53 < Thorn> "Wir haben nur den Jungen geheilhitlert" https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EyF_XafkUCk
2020-04-17T17:13:00 < dongs> hmm
2020-04-17T17:13:02 < dongs> this is gay
2020-04-17T17:13:18 < zyp> in theory you should be able to send a start/stop without any data in between
2020-04-17T17:13:37 < zyp> that should in practice be a low pulse on SDA
2020-04-17T17:14:01 -!- splud [~noneya.bi@unaffiliated/splud] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds]
2020-04-17T17:15:33 < dongs> https://android.googlesource.com/kernel/tegra/+/android-tegra-flounder-3.10-lollipop-release/drivers/power/lc709203f_battery.c#471
2020-04-17T17:15:37 < dongs> lunix just does this
2020-04-17T17:16:34 < zyp> well, yeah, any sort of i2c activity would pulse SDA
2020-04-17T17:17:08 < zyp> as long as it works out with it waking up in the middle of a transfer then that's fine
2020-04-17T17:17:21 < zyp> or if transfer time is long enough that transfer is already over by the time it wakes up
2020-04-17T17:19:21 < dongs> time to hookup the scope i geuss
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2020-04-17T17:21:23 < zyp> https://bin.jvnv.net/file/Tq5gI.png <- I added a TX part to USB PHY and set it up to ACK data packets
2020-04-17T17:22:08 < zyp> next step is adding EOP detection to the receiver, so I can time the ACK to get sent after it finished receiving :p
2020-04-17T17:22:20 < Thorn> is it open sauce
2020-04-17T17:22:36 < zyp> what is?
2020-04-17T17:23:19 < Thorn> is it a hdl usb core or am I confused
2020-04-17T17:23:24 < zyp> yes
2020-04-17T17:23:45 < zyp> and yes, I'll probably opensource it assuming it turns into something useful
2020-04-17T17:23:54 < Thorn> also are you using an external phy?
2020-04-17T17:24:06 < Thorn> + ulpi
2020-04-17T17:24:13 < dongs> no hes bitbanging it
2020-04-17T17:24:16 < dongs> like a baus
2020-04-17T17:24:18 < zyp> no, this is just FS
2020-04-17T17:24:31 < Thorn> okic
2020-04-17T17:24:32 < zyp> I'm planning to add ULPI support later
2020-04-17T17:24:43 < Thorn> would be fun to play with
2020-04-17T17:25:44 < zyp> I figure I'll make a simple FS PHY first and write a controller that's actually able to enumerate with it
2020-04-17T17:26:06 < zyp> and then figure out how to get that to work with ULPI
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2020-04-17T17:33:39 < dongs> well i guess nrf driver uses 7bit addreses
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2020-04-17T17:37:52 < dongs> https://i.imgur.com/12EvU4q.png is this some disgusting clcok stretching going on
2020-04-17T17:37:57 < dongs> or is that just NRF driver being ass
2020-04-17T17:38:37 < zyp> hard to tell from that zoom level
2020-04-17T17:38:45 < dongs> lemme recapture less retarded
2020-04-17T17:40:32 < zyp> is this write or read?
2020-04-17T17:40:35 < dongs> write
2020-04-17T17:40:38 < dongs> its acking it
2020-04-17T17:40:39 < dongs> i guess
2020-04-17T17:40:41 < dongs> but its not doing anything
2020-04-17T17:40:44 < dongs> this is 'set power mode' 
2020-04-17T17:40:51 < dongs> reads back are always ff
2020-04-17T17:40:55 < dongs> read of ID also ff
2020-04-17T17:41:55 < dongs> i have that MPU on same bus and i can read/write stuff from it
2020-04-17T17:41:59 < dongs> so the bus is OK i guess
2020-04-17T17:43:18 < dongs> https://i.imgur.com/DFd3GJS.png get id
2020-04-17T17:44:15 < zyp> wat
2020-04-17T17:44:34 < zyp> the shit on SDA where it reads 0xff looks pretty suspect
2020-04-17T17:44:39 < zyp> can you zoom in on that?
2020-04-17T17:44:52 < zyp> oh, wait, disregard
2020-04-17T17:45:02 < zyp> SDA is noisy everywhere
2020-04-17T17:45:13 < dongs> https://i.imgur.com/7ty75RR.png
2020-04-17T17:47:50 < dongs> https://i.imgur.com/fxO1V4c.png the guage is definiely fuckign with somethign
2020-04-17T17:47:56 < dongs> this is 6 byte continous read from MPU
2020-04-17T17:48:08 < dongs> no delays
2020-04-17T17:50:10 < dongs> https://i.imgur.com/EelUGgz.png looks beter at 100khz
2020-04-17T17:50:14 < dongs> but still no change heh
2020-04-17T17:50:56 < aandrew> https://i.imgur.com/yQFDign.jpg
2020-04-17T17:52:44 < dongs> LC709203FQH−0xTWG doesn’t set itself
2020-04-17T17:52:45 < dongs> into Sleep mode automatically
2020-04-17T17:52:53 < dongs> ok, sothe one i got doesnt even set itself to sleep mode.
2020-04-17T17:52:58 < dongs> so it should fucking work on power-on at least to read ID
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2020-04-17T18:23:15 < Cracki> Thorn, those guys don't sound german at all. typical hollywood propaganda bs
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2020-04-17T18:34:26 < dongs> https://community.cypress.com/thread/42944?start=0&tstart=0 hmm same problem
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2020-04-17T18:54:02 < dongs> well
2020-04-17T18:54:05 < Thorn> how do I open a .brd file (allegro or something) in altium disaster 20
2020-04-17T18:54:17 < dongs> at 100khz, 1st SDA pulse is like 12us so way over 0.6us the other shit needs
2020-04-17T18:54:31 < dongs> Thorn: you need to have allnegro installed and use allegro2altium.bat
2020-04-17T18:54:41  * Thorn vomits
2020-04-17T18:54:43 < dongs> to make .asc
2020-04-17T18:54:49 < dongs> yeah its disgusting
2020-04-17T18:55:07 < Thorn> that stm32mp1 module+board that zyp found is designed in allergy
2020-04-17T18:55:44 < Thorn> (which is now going to be donglish for allegro btw)
2020-04-17T18:56:19 < Thorn> oh well the dongs version also works I guess
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2020-04-17T19:05:28 < dongs> https://devzone.nordicsemi.com/f/nordic-q-a/48166/i2c-clock-stretching-on-nrf52840
2020-04-17T19:05:31 < dongs> whjat
2020-04-17T19:07:17 < dongs> i just started on this aids and its already fucking not working?
2020-04-17T19:07:49 < Steffanx> Haha
2020-04-17T19:08:21 < mawk> you can't say opensores now
2020-04-17T19:08:24 < Steffanx> Time to buttbang some i2c
2020-04-17T19:08:29 < dongs> fuck off lol
2020-04-17T19:09:53 < mawk> that's what they're suggesting
2020-04-17T19:09:59 < mawk> official nordic answer
2020-04-17T19:10:01 < mawk> bitbang it
2020-04-17T19:11:23 < dongs> what the fuck people have had this nonworking for like 5+ years now
2020-04-17T19:12:55 < zyp> Thorn, that I found?
2020-04-17T19:13:09 < Thorn> yes the seeed one
2020-04-17T19:13:25 < zyp> ah, I think somebody else linked it and then I commented on it
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2020-04-17T19:24:50 < dongs> anyway from waht i can tell the stretching is actually *working* and its not clipping the next clock pulse either
2020-04-17T19:24:57 < dongs> so what the fuck is wrong wiht this thing
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2020-04-17T19:30:47 < zyp> have you tried reading the slave from something else?
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2020-04-17T19:31:05 < dongs> no, i will try that when its not 1am. i have i2c pads on there and i can try with a nucleo or something
2020-04-17T19:33:15 < dongs> but scope-wise it looks fine...
2020-04-17T19:33:22 < dongs> if there was crap the decoder wouldnt work either on scope
2020-04-17T19:34:21 < dongs> https://i.imgur.com/xwWsmXW.png if it picks up this then there's nothing wrong protocol-wise
2020-04-17T19:35:14 < Cracki> those things try their best to decode, but they don't judge the whole waveform for timing and amplitude
2020-04-17T19:35:37 < Cracki> does the waveform look right to you?
2020-04-17T19:35:42 < dongs> i can see the waveform and theres nothign wrong iwht it
2020-04-17T19:35:52 < dongs> https://i.imgur.com/EelUGgz.png < yes ive pasted it
2020-04-17T19:36:29 < Cracki> :S
2020-04-17T19:36:32 < dongs> it does the stretching for each byte i guess
2020-04-17T19:37:23 < dongs> https://i.imgur.com/fxO1V4c.png < read to another slave on same bus, no delays between byte
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2020-04-17T19:46:20 < catphish> mwahahahahaha https://i.imgur.com/LLgNAt0.jpg (1.5TB RAM + 64 CPU cores) x 20
2020-04-17T19:46:57 < Thorn> moneyed westerners
2020-04-17T19:47:16 < jpa-> why no blinky leds on the bottom ones
2020-04-17T19:47:39 < catphish> they're just being installed, i guess nobody plugged in all the power yet
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2020-04-17T20:01:30 < bitmask> wooohoo I have a laptop again
2020-04-17T20:02:03 < zyp> time to buy more magnets
2020-04-17T20:02:04 < jpa-> but do you have a magnetic stirrer?
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2020-04-17T20:03:45 < dongs> buttbanged i2c did same shit
2020-04-17T20:05:18 < bitmask> yes I do
2020-04-17T20:11:51 < bitmask> i made a booboo though
2020-04-17T20:12:46 < bitmask> there was a recall on my battery, didnt think i needed it and didnt want to part with my laptop for a week. I was gonna send it in eventually. but now that i opened the case, the battery is all puffed up, I cant close the case fully again.  Im worried it will rupture.  so now I gotta pay for a new battery
2020-04-17T20:13:54 < dongs> aww fuck
2020-04-17T20:14:44 < dongs> https://i.imgur.com/BU6ucmP.png i zoomed in at max sample rate
2020-04-17T20:15:26 < jpa-> bitmask: you can't get the recall by replacing battery yourself?
2020-04-17T20:16:09 < bitmask> its apple, i highly doubt it
2020-04-17T20:16:23 < bitmask> infact I can confidently say no chance in hell
2020-04-17T20:17:58 < jpa-> bitmask: when wife's macbook bottom cover had a recall, they fedex'ed her a new cover and new screws and a screwdriver
2020-04-17T20:18:54 < bitmask> really? that really surprised me
2020-04-17T20:18:57 < bitmask> surprises me*
2020-04-17T20:19:03 < bitmask> i guess i'll check
2020-04-17T20:19:43 < jpa-> but that was back when steve was still alive
2020-04-17T20:19:53 < bitmask> I mean $50 isnt terrible anyway
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2020-04-17T20:20:27 < bitmask> so not a huge loss
2020-04-17T20:20:29 < bitmask> if they wont
2020-04-17T20:21:18 < jpa-> $50 for genuine or clone battery?
2020-04-17T20:22:21 < bitmask> says genuine oem, just looking on ebay real quick to get an idea of pricing
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2020-04-17T20:24:05 < bitmask> and of course the one bit i needed (pentalobe p5 / 1.2) was missing from the cheap set I ordered from ebay that came today.  it was the only bit missing too.  luckily it had a 0.8 so I dremeled the tip off and it worked
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2020-04-17T20:31:26 < bitmask> what can I do with the old screen, probably nothing useful
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2020-04-17T20:45:37 < Cracki> digital picture frame maybe
2020-04-17T20:45:53 < Cracki> if you fee llike it, there are breakouts/adapter boards for eDP to DP/HDMI
2020-04-17T20:47:03 < zyp> I thought the problem was it was broken
2020-04-17T20:49:55 < Cracki> oh
2020-04-17T20:49:58 < Cracki> art project then
2020-04-17T20:50:27 < kakimir> bitmask: what was that regulator I recommended back when you made the battery operated jacket?
2020-04-17T20:50:33 < kakimir> step down
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2020-04-17T20:53:48 < kakimir> mp2315?
2020-04-17T20:54:11 < kakimir> all monolithic regulators look the same
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2020-04-17T22:02:03 < Cracki> wew store had not just the emergency sand paper but their regular TP again
2020-04-17T22:02:27 < Cracki> it's like people can't shit as fast as the rulers command them do
2020-04-17T22:10:53 < bitmask> damn im making a mess
2020-04-17T22:11:06 < Cracki> lewd
2020-04-17T22:11:35 < bitmask> drilled a hole into 6 copper nuggets, only broke 2 drill bits in the process :P
2020-04-17T22:11:50 < bitmask> and melting some 1 micron poly felt into small bags
2020-04-17T22:12:03 < Cracki> got a drill press?
2020-04-17T22:12:06 < bitmask> nope
2020-04-17T22:12:19 < Cracki> that's how I snapped a drill once, no press 
2020-04-17T22:12:31 < Cracki> you won't want to live without one once you have it
2020-04-17T22:12:35 < zyp> I refactored some of my USB code and broke it
2020-04-17T22:12:41 < bitmask> I just moved up to a bigger drill bit, wasted more copper but I got plenty
2020-04-17T22:12:45 < Cracki> git reset --hard
2020-04-17T22:13:17 < zyp> nah
2020-04-17T22:13:27 < Cracki> git blame
2020-04-17T22:14:15 < zyp> I just wonder where it broke
2020-04-17T22:15:05 < zyp> it shouldn't have, I just started untangling the RX pipeline by moving the clock recovery to its own module
2020-04-17T22:15:19 < Cracki> for those situations I move the new state of files somewhere separate, then retrace my steps from the last commit in smaller increments
2020-04-17T22:15:48 < Cracki> uh, own module... I'd check function prototypes
2020-04-17T22:15:50 < zyp> the change is pretty small, the module is like 30 lines
2020-04-17T22:16:15 < Cracki> -Wall -Wextra -pedantic -neckstomp
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2020-04-17T22:17:14 < zyp> oh, duh
2020-04-17T22:17:23 < zyp> I didn't hook up the input to the module
2020-04-17T22:17:42 < Cracki> how does that need to be done
2020-04-17T22:18:39 < zyp> https://paste.jvnv.net/view/8zSiM
2020-04-17T22:18:53 < zyp> old code commented out at the bottom
2020-04-17T22:18:59 < Ultrasauce> >committing more than once per feature
2020-04-17T22:19:03 < zyp> refactored code lacks the equivalent of line 51
2020-04-17T22:19:31 < Ultrasauce> which hls is this
2020-04-17T22:19:40 < Cracki> I see self.comb += [...], it also contains bus_state.eq(...)
2020-04-17T22:19:42 < zyp> migen
2020-04-17T22:19:56 < zyp> or FHDL as they might call it
2020-04-17T22:20:02 < Cracki> ah, Cat() id different
2020-04-17T22:20:25 < Cracki> ah ic, dp/dm not hooked up you mean
2020-04-17T22:20:29 < zyp> correct
2020-04-17T22:21:00 < zyp> self.comb += whatever adds whatever to list of combinatorial operations
2020-04-17T22:21:17 < zyp> and equivalent for self.sync
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2020-04-17T23:38:50 < Laurenceb> https://tpc.googlesyndication.com/simgad/8991956487760311761?sqp=4sqPyQQ7QjkqNxABHQAAtEIgASgBMAk4A0DwkwlYAWBfcAKAAQGIAQGdAQAAgD-oAQGwAYCt4gS4AV_FAS2ynT4&rs=AOga4qkwPsuBTN7E-Ec0Lpywm6uGuzVt0w
2020-04-17T23:38:53 < Laurenceb> it  begins
2020-04-17T23:44:20 < Cracki> funny, no amount of acid attacks managed to cause this
2020-04-17T23:45:18 < Cracki> brits are brainwashed even worse than germans, how come? there's not even an attempt at an excuse for brits
2020-04-17T23:55:33 < Laurenceb> he should have just claimed he found the chat logs or something
2020-04-17T23:55:52 < Laurenceb> oh wrong tab
2020-04-17T23:56:07 < Laurenceb> lol yeah that would protect against acid attacks yeah
2020-04-17T23:56:21 < Laurenceb> >britain bans acid in response
2020-04-17T23:56:37 < Laurenceb> cant even get brick cleaner without providing id wtf
--- Day changed Sat Apr 18 2020
2020-04-18T00:04:49 < Laurenceb> >Speaking in Geneva, the WHO's Dr Maria van Kerkhove said there was "no evidence" that having had the virus would guarantee immunity.
2020-04-18T00:04:49 < Laurenceb> >She said initial evidence did not suggest large numbers of people were developing antibodies after having the virus, meaning the chances of creating "herd immunity" were not high.
2020-04-18T00:04:54 < Laurenceb> wtf we're all dead
2020-04-18T00:05:19 < jadew> ffs...
2020-04-18T00:06:16 < jadew> if that's true, then the only solution is to prepare for a proper lockdown
2020-04-18T00:06:23 < jadew> china style
2020-04-18T00:06:38 < jadew> you lock everyone up for 2 months, problem solved
2020-04-18T00:13:31 < Cracki> WHO has lost all credibility. look up how much money they get from Gates
2020-04-18T00:13:39 < catphish> "evidence did not suggest large numbers of people were developing antibodies after having the virus" << i find this interesting, because i didn't know one could fight a disease without developing an immunity to it
2020-04-18T00:13:48 < Cracki> same
2020-04-18T00:13:59 < Cracki> she's likely talking out of her ass
2020-04-18T00:14:06 < catphish> i guess the immune system has mutiple methods of fighting stuff, known and unknown
2020-04-18T00:14:22 < Laurenceb> <Cracki> WHO has lost all credibility. look up how much money they get from Gates
2020-04-18T00:14:31 < catphish> ie killing unknown stuff works but is a different process from killing known diseases
2020-04-18T00:14:33 < Laurenceb> wtf ur obviously a 5g mast petrolbombing nut
2020-04-18T00:14:42 < Laurenceb> how dare you question st Gates
2020-04-18T00:14:54 < Cracki> *angery greta*
2020-04-18T00:15:03 < Laurenceb> he is our most glorious billionaire
2020-04-18T00:15:08 < catphish> the WHO seem pretty effective
2020-04-18T00:15:32 < catphish> just a shame some world leaders choose not to act on their advice or give them accurate data
2020-04-18T00:17:01 < Cracki> https://www.weforum.org/agenda/2020/04/who-funds-world-health-organization-un-coronavirus-pandemic-covid-trump/
2020-04-18T00:17:35 < Cracki> gates foundation contributing more than any whole fucking nation besides murica
2020-04-18T00:18:15 < catphish> "while his administration reviews" << this is a terrifying collection of words
2020-04-18T00:18:43 < catphish> we don't know if this org did a good job or not, so we'll stop funding while we look into it
2020-04-18T00:18:47 < Cracki> wat is zis https://reason.com/video/how-china-corrupted-the-world-health-organizations-response-to-covid-19/
2020-04-18T00:19:02 < Laurenceb> wtf I believe Trump now
2020-04-18T00:19:14 < Cracki> oh catphish don't get TDS. it's one of his tactics.
2020-04-18T00:19:26 < Cracki> he threatens sanctions unless they cooperate. it's all about negotiations.
2020-04-18T00:19:29 < kakimir> TDS?
2020-04-18T00:19:38 < kakimir> is greta happy now?
2020-04-18T00:19:41 < Cracki> T stands for Trump
2020-04-18T00:20:12 < kakimir> DS?
2020-04-18T00:20:30 < Laurenceb> derangement syndrome
2020-04-18T00:20:35 < kakimir> trump dollar sign?
2020-04-18T00:20:54 < kakimir> give me musics Lurencer
2020-04-18T00:20:55 < catphish> TrumpDildoSex
2020-04-18T00:21:10 < Laurenceb> eww
2020-04-18T00:21:22 < Mangy_Dog> scarty
2020-04-18T00:21:23 < kakimir> :E
2020-04-18T00:21:39 < Cracki> https://nylon.com/articles/donald-trump-dildos
2020-04-18T00:21:47 < Cracki> you were asking for it
2020-04-18T00:22:15 < Cracki> drag a mattress across campus if you are offended
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2020-04-18T00:23:01 < Laurenceb> oh god no
2020-04-18T00:23:13 < Laurenceb> thats an obscene publication and ur going to jail
2020-04-18T00:23:21 < Laurenceb> seeing as irc is now a publication in uk
2020-04-18T00:23:23 < catphish> oh god
2020-04-18T00:23:26 < Laurenceb> lmao
2020-04-18T00:23:35 < kakimir> is it though?
2020-04-18T00:23:43 < catphish> i don't think trump dildos are illegal here
2020-04-18T00:23:50 < catphish> as long as he doesn't sit on your face
2020-04-18T00:23:54 < kakimir> some day soon #freenode closes ##stm32
2020-04-18T00:24:03 < Laurenceb> kakimir: it was ruled so by uk court in 2012
2020-04-18T00:24:11 < Laurenceb> but dunno if it could be appealed
2020-04-18T00:24:18 < kakimir> wtf
2020-04-18T00:24:30 < Laurenceb> ikr
2020-04-18T00:24:42 < Laurenceb> talk to weirdos: go to jail
2020-04-18T00:24:55 < kakimir> was it especially IRC or was it grouped with other messaging platforms?
2020-04-18T00:24:59 < Cracki> talk to bobbies: get clobbered
2020-04-18T00:25:14 < catphish> kakimir: "extreme" porn is illegal here now, it's a poorly written law but is there to protect people against participating in harmful porn
2020-04-18T00:25:15 < Laurenceb> kakimir: the court case was irc related, but it could be other stuff
2020-04-18T00:25:30 < catphish> not sure about other obscenit
2020-04-18T00:25:35 < catphish> *obscenity
2020-04-18T00:25:39 < Laurenceb> https://www.theregister.co.uk/2010/11/04/obscene_publications_private_chat/
2020-04-18T00:26:00 < catphish> oh, private chat constitutes a publication now?
2020-04-18T00:26:18 < Cracki> sealed letters are a publication
2020-04-18T00:26:23 < Laurenceb> yeah
2020-04-18T00:26:34 < Cracki> they'll just steam them open and nail them to the church door
2020-04-18T00:26:48 < Cracki> 1984 is a manual to these fuckers
2020-04-18T00:26:58 < catphish> surely what is a publication has serious implications for libel cases
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2020-04-18T00:27:19 < catphish> like if i were to write here that donald trump was a homo
2020-04-18T00:27:24 < catphish> would that be libel?
2020-04-18T00:27:37 < kakimir> Mr Smith
2020-04-18T00:27:42 < Laurenceb> aiui they can redefine words for acts of law as they want
2020-04-18T00:28:18 < catphish> the definition of words always seemed a pretty big problem for law to me
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2020-04-18T00:28:37 < Laurenceb> yeah "appeal to dictionary" doesnt seem to be a legal tactic
2020-04-18T00:28:38 < Cracki> since trump being a homo is in line with state opinion, you get a medal
2020-04-18T00:28:47 < catphish> it's okay writing a law, but unless you can accurately define every word you use, how can yo know how that law will be interpreted
2020-04-18T00:29:04 < Laurenceb> appeal to authority, thats how
2020-04-18T00:29:16 < Cracki> interpretation depends on whether they want you burning at the stake or not
2020-04-18T00:29:44 < catphish> as an example, it's currently illegal to leave your house in the UK, but it's ok if you're leaving to exercise
2020-04-18T00:29:52 < Cracki> recreational thermonuclear warheads. nothing less prevents this.
2020-04-18T00:30:03 < catphish> it's lead to a huge debate about what constituses exercise
2020-04-18T00:30:11 < catphish> *constitutes
2020-04-18T00:30:21 < kakimir> come to court to find out
2020-04-18T00:30:25 < Cracki> it means you have to wear jogging clothes and always jog while outside
2020-04-18T00:30:26 < catphish> indeed
2020-04-18T00:30:27 < qyx> jogging to grandpa
2020-04-18T00:30:38 < Laurenceb> apparently if you go to the scene area in north Derbyshire you get droned
2020-04-18T00:30:39 < Cracki> if you stop, they arrest you
2020-04-18T00:30:47 < catphish> i believe they've decided that a long walk with a picnic *is* exercise :)
2020-04-18T00:30:59 < Laurenceb> the daily press conference make me rage
2020-04-18T00:31:06 < Cracki> picnics are gatherings, you get death sentence
2020-04-18T00:31:11 < Laurenceb> like why cant they just admit we are in the shit
2020-04-18T00:31:21 < Laurenceb>  "yeah we're in the shit, we're fucked"
2020-04-18T00:31:27 < catphish> Cracki: yes but only if you do it with people you don't live with :)
2020-04-18T00:31:36 < Laurenceb> or at least admit they need an input of ideas
2020-04-18T00:31:39 < kakimir> they prepared 30years to set up a surveillance state but just weeks to handle a pandemic  
2020-04-18T00:31:42 < Laurenceb> or to come up with a plan
2020-04-18T00:31:52 < Cracki> they won't let you prove that you live with anyone
2020-04-18T00:32:05 < catphish> luckily i live in a backward corner of nowhere
2020-04-18T00:32:06 < Laurenceb>  "yeah we're taking steps to up testing, today I emailed some people about something real important"
2020-04-18T00:32:10 < catphish> not much covid here yet
2020-04-18T00:32:26 < Laurenceb> so many fucking QANGOS
2020-04-18T00:32:44 < kakimir> not much here neither
2020-04-18T00:32:51 < kakimir> I have my mask now
2020-04-18T00:32:59 < kakimir> it's very nice
2020-04-18T00:33:27 < kakimir> it attaches to face with force man
2020-04-18T00:33:27 < Laurenceb> yeah I managed to get about 15 masks literally minutes before ebay b& them
2020-04-18T00:33:39 < kakimir> *full mask
2020-04-18T00:34:28 < Laurenceb> feel a bit guilty tbh
2020-04-18T00:34:34 < kakimir> don't be
2020-04-18T00:34:37 < Laurenceb> maybe I will donate spares to local hospital
2020-04-18T00:34:49 < Laurenceb> I dont really need 15 of them
2020-04-18T00:34:49 < kakimir> ffp3?
2020-04-18T00:34:56 < Laurenceb> yeah the full works
2020-04-18T00:35:22 < catphish> i have masks, haven't worn any yet, they don't look awesome
2020-04-18T00:35:58 < Cracki> I still haven't seen anyone wear ahegao masks out in public
2020-04-18T00:36:03 < Laurenceb> better than being dead
2020-04-18T00:36:16 < Laurenceb> about 10% of people round here are wearing makss in public
2020-04-18T00:36:18 < Cracki> you won't die unless your days are numbered already
2020-04-18T00:36:27 < Laurenceb> not really true
2020-04-18T00:36:33 < catphish> Cracki: it's more random than that
2020-04-18T00:36:41 < catphish> that's probably 99% true
2020-04-18T00:36:41 < Laurenceb> it still kills some younger people
2020-04-18T00:36:46 < Cracki> it's less random than anvil from the sky
2020-04-18T00:36:52 < Laurenceb> >safety level: space shuttle
2020-04-18T00:36:57 < Laurenceb> thats not very safe
2020-04-18T00:37:09 < catphish> but some people are being whacked who wouldn't have otherwise croaked
2020-04-18T00:37:34 < Cracki> eh, higher chances of getting knifed or acided
2020-04-18T00:38:07 < Thorn> a 34 year old man died of CoV in Moscow
2020-04-18T00:38:37 < catphish> Cracki: is that relevant?
2020-04-18T00:38:48 < Cracki> for a britbong probably :>
2020-04-18T00:39:06 < Laurenceb> top trawl
2020-04-18T00:39:19 < Laurenceb> most knife victims were involved in gangs already
2020-04-18T00:39:22  * catphish reaches for britbong
2020-04-18T00:39:38 < Cracki> I'd even say you're more likely to get oi-wheres-ya-loicensed to death than die from the wuflu in bongland
2020-04-18T00:39:42 < catphish> Laurenceb: not me, i was just chopping carrots
2020-04-18T00:39:57 < Cracki> carrot murderer
2020-04-18T00:40:31 < Laurenceb> Cracki: hopefully with Alsion Saunders gone, uk will be less insane
2020-04-18T00:40:43 < Laurenceb> >prove consent or ur a rapist
2020-04-18T00:41:09 < Cracki> one alligator handbagged doesn't drain a swamp
2020-04-18T00:41:32 < Laurenceb> >drain the swamp
2020-04-18T00:41:34 < Cracki> it's a start tho. she looks evil
2020-04-18T00:41:39 < Laurenceb> Q predicted this amirite?
2020-04-18T00:41:44 < Cracki> wat do brits have that's equivalent to murican swamp
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2020-04-18T00:41:51 < Laurenceb> lol I dunno
2020-04-18T00:41:59 < Cracki> "Yes Minister"
2020-04-18T00:42:00 < Laurenceb> probably QANGO central in London
2020-04-18T00:42:09 < Laurenceb> where there health bullshitters come from
2020-04-18T00:42:15 < Cracki> "quango" is a word I've only ever heard in Yes Minister
2020-04-18T00:42:24 < Laurenceb> BBC parliament is extra lulzy tbh
2020-04-18T00:42:28 < Laurenceb> the bullshit channel
2020-04-18T00:42:50 < Laurenceb> you can watch their meetings streamed
2020-04-18T00:43:42 < Laurenceb> I should have watched pre-babbyshake
2020-04-18T00:44:01 < Laurenceb>  "we are adding moar databases all the time to leverage our commitment to big data"
2020-04-18T00:46:50 < catphish> i enjoy watching parlaiment
2020-04-18T00:48:40 < bitmask> https://i.imgur.com/JDNh1WD.png
2020-04-18T00:48:42 < bitmask> phosphorized copper anodes held together with titanium wire
2020-04-18T00:48:45 < bitmask> i have no idea if this is gonna work
2020-04-18T00:48:58 < Cracki> golden marshmallows
2020-04-18T00:50:01 < Laurenceb> bitmask: what ur making?
2020-04-18T00:50:43 < bitmask> just playing with copper plating 3d prints and organics
2020-04-18T00:51:53 < kakimir> what is he doings
2020-04-18T00:52:00 < kakimir> ah
2020-04-18T00:52:12 < kakimir> electrocution
2020-04-18T00:58:00 < Laurenceb> interesting, are you using copper sulphate?
2020-04-18T01:02:18 < bitmask> yea
2020-04-18T01:02:32 < bitmask> copper sulfate + sulfuric acid
2020-04-18T01:02:38 < bitmask> and some other stuff
2020-04-18T01:04:14 < bitmask> spent all day upgrading my setup, finally ready for testing but I dont think I have the time
2020-04-18T01:14:14 < kakimir> I need some funky inrush limiter circuit
2020-04-18T01:14:29 < kakimir> that follows cap voltage to input voltage difference
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2020-04-18T01:14:45 < kakimir> then latches the fet
2020-04-18T01:14:55 < kakimir> then turns on the regulator
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2020-04-18T01:15:30 < kakimir> input voltage range something like.. 12V nominal 20V max
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2020-04-18T01:15:49 < kakimir> hey I have mcu
2020-04-18T01:16:21 < kakimir> I enable regulator at certain cap voltage
2020-04-18T01:16:49 < kakimir> mcu slings into action and monitors VIN - CAP difference
2020-04-18T01:17:19 < kakimir> then latches fet when it's time
2020-04-18T01:18:01 < zyp> ok
2020-04-18T01:18:11 < kakimir> yes
2020-04-18T01:18:30 < kakimir> promoves enabled
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2020-04-18T01:49:27 < Steffanx> Don't blow it kakimir
2020-04-18T01:50:05 < kakimir> pro skill
2020-04-18T01:50:37 < Steffanx> A pro wouldn't use a microcontroller 
2020-04-18T01:51:09 < Steffanx> Better get that arduino up and runnimg
2020-04-18T01:51:55 < kakimir> a pro would
2020-04-18T01:53:16 < kakimir> in certain cases
2020-04-18T02:00:16 < kakimir> besides UVLO of regulator acts as timer similar to timer inrush protection circuit
2020-04-18T02:00:42 < kakimir> MCU can then evaluate the situation
2020-04-18T02:01:01 < kakimir> or maybe not
2020-04-18T02:01:27 < kakimir> with delay type protection there is minimal voltage difference when fet is activated
2020-04-18T02:01:35 < kakimir> as the load is not active
2020-04-18T02:02:33 < kakimir> nah.. volt or two.. I'll take it
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2020-04-18T02:08:51 < kakimir> added cap to gate so now there is hardcoded slope to operate pmos
2020-04-18T02:09:15 < kakimir> hardwired
2020-04-18T02:10:59 < karlp> nice price on this: https://www.seeedstudio.com/Sipeed-Maix-Cube-p-4553.html?utm_source=mailchimp&utm_medium=edm&utm_campaign=bazaar_0417
2020-04-18T02:11:40 < karlp> camera, screen, riscv, all the cool shits
2020-04-18T02:11:44 -!- PaulFertser [paul@paulfertser.info] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds]
2020-04-18T02:12:10 < kakimir> it's a nice price for a thing that comes in an enclosure
2020-04-18T02:12:34 < zyp> not bad
2020-04-18T02:13:14 < zyp> wait
2020-04-18T02:13:28 < zyp> «USB C: Up to 1.5 Mbps»
2020-04-18T02:13:31 < zyp> nice bitbanging
2020-04-18T02:13:52 -!- Streaker [~Streaker@unaffiliated/streaker] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer]
2020-04-18T02:14:43 < kakimir> or serial converter
2020-04-18T02:15:01 < kakimir> such a lackluster
2020-04-18T02:15:07 < k\o\w> reminds me of this https://www.aliexpress.com/item/4000544100310.html
2020-04-18T02:15:47 < kakimir> it's hiding in there
2020-04-18T02:15:55 < karlp> no documents available
2020-04-18T02:16:44 < karlp> my gd32v order got ghosted, got ar efund
2020-04-18T02:16:48 < karlp> should try and order another one
2020-04-18T02:18:18 < karlp> some of you pros have mikrotik router shits right? what baout their wifi?
2020-04-18T02:18:29 < kakimir> Efund?
2020-04-18T02:18:40 -!- PaulFertser [paul@paulfertser.info] has joined ##stm32
2020-04-18T02:18:43 < kakimir> I want Efunds
2020-04-18T02:19:15 < kakimir> Efund sounds like some .com era terminology
2020-04-18T02:19:52 < karlp> I'm considering this https://mikrotik.com/product/RB962UiGS-5HacT2HnT plus a PoE ceiling wifi ap for the rest of the house for the new place
2020-04-18T02:24:54 < zyp> karlp, I've only got mikrotik switches, got ubnt router and wifi
2020-04-18T02:24:59 < zyp> can recommend
2020-04-18T02:26:12 < kakimir> karlp: if it had USB3 I would buy that instantly
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2020-04-18T02:27:53 < englishman> digging through some shit, found some raspberri pis
2020-04-18T02:27:56 < englishman> not like one, like 5
2020-04-18T02:28:02 < englishman> plus some china boards
2020-04-18T02:28:16 < englishman> how do i get rid of this stuff? it seems like a pain to sell it, and a waste to recycle it
2020-04-18T02:28:35 < englishman> idk if i could donate it to anyone, there is a lot of junk
2020-04-18T02:28:56 < kakimir> which version?
2020-04-18T02:28:56 < zyp> I've got a pile here too
2020-04-18T02:29:10 < zyp> two or three 3b and one 4b
2020-04-18T02:29:39 < kakimir> I just deployed my rasbi 1s
2020-04-18T02:29:49 < kakimir> so I may need to stock up
2020-04-18T02:29:52 < zyp> was using a couple of them for 802.15.4-shit last year, and then they've just stayed around since
2020-04-18T02:30:24 < englishman> i bought a v1 but i have no clue where it might be, these are 3 or 4?
2020-04-18T02:31:23 < kakimir> you don't see any value in them?
2020-04-18T02:31:33 < kakimir> aren't those still like 30-40euros new
2020-04-18T02:31:42 < kakimir> at least here
2020-04-18T02:32:20 < englishman> yeah, but they are used so i can't ask for that, and then i'd have to ship
2020-04-18T02:32:46 < englishman> and canada post is nearly as shitty as senegal post, actually senegal post is probably better and cheaper
2020-04-18T02:32:47 < kakimir> use one for irc server
2020-04-18T02:33:00 < kakimir> use another for talologger or some similar thing
2020-04-18T02:33:30 < englishman> its not just that either but, tools and other electronics i no longer use
2020-04-18T02:33:39 < englishman> like a portable 900MHz spectrum analyzer
2020-04-18T02:33:47 < kakimir> :|
2020-04-18T02:33:52 < kakimir> what else?
2020-04-18T02:33:59 < k\o\w> canada post is so shitty that most vendors ship via companies that drive the parcel to the US border and re-ship it with USPS back into Canada
2020-04-18T02:34:00 < englishman> lol like boxes and boxes of shit
2020-04-18T02:34:10 < kakimir> photo them some day
2020-04-18T02:34:12 < k\o\w> because Canada Post bends over for USPS mail and prioritizes it
2020-04-18T02:34:23 < kakimir> it's always interesting to see other ppl's shit
2020-04-18T02:34:48 < zyp> englishman, I have that too, I figure some of it might come in handy one day
2020-04-18T02:34:52 < kakimir> especially if they are trying to get rid of those
2020-04-18T02:35:59 < k\o\w> englishman, u can donate that gear to foulab
2020-04-18T02:36:13 < englishman> zyp, it's a slippery slope to hoarding
2020-04-18T02:36:19 < englishman> oh is foulab still around? cool
2020-04-18T02:36:31 < englishman> i could separate the good stuff and drop it off next time i am in mtl
2020-04-18T02:36:38 < k\o\w> I brought my hoard there and they let me use it for free on tuesday nights\
2020-04-18T02:36:40 -!- Thorn [~Thorn@unaffiliated/thorn] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
2020-04-18T02:37:13 < k\o\w> they are in ##foulab
2020-04-18T02:37:35 < zyp> https://bin.jvnv.net/file/XrUxj.png there we go
2020-04-18T02:37:55 < zyp> refactored entire RX pipeline and added support for EOP detection
2020-04-18T02:39:05 < zyp> wonder whether turnaround time meets spec (and how much leeway I have in each direction)
2020-04-18T02:47:52 < kakimir> I think I have asymptomatic corona
2020-04-18T02:55:15 < ds2> 3
2020-04-18T03:02:35 < Steffanx> No you don't kakimir  
2020-04-18T03:02:48 < Steffanx> PITA is not a symptom
2020-04-18T03:03:11 < Steffanx> And how on earth does someone living in the middle of f-ing nowhere get it?
2020-04-18T03:03:24 < Steffanx> 1.5 meter distancing is easy peasy for you
2020-04-18T03:03:32 < Steffanx> Even 1.5KM is easy
2020-04-18T03:06:31 -!- Spirit532 [~Spirit@mm-57-74-122-178.mgts.dynamic.pppoe.byfly.by] has quit [Disconnected by services]
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2020-04-18T03:08:28 < ds2> by the mail :D
2020-04-18T03:12:40 < englishman> On May 27, NASA will once again launch American astronauts on American rockets from American soil! With our SpaceX partners, Astronaut Doug Hurley and Astronaut Bob Behnken will launch to the International Space Station on the Crew Dragon spacecraft atop a Falcon 9 rocket.
2020-04-18T03:12:42 < englishman> cool
2020-04-18T03:13:26 < zyp> nice
2020-04-18T03:14:55 < englishman> yes, there is a ventilator on the iss
2020-04-18T03:23:30 < zyp> okay, actually putting the ACK on the wire even works
2020-04-18T03:34:47 < kakimir> Steffanx: 1.5km is hard
2020-04-18T03:34:59 < kakimir> neighbors live 1km away
2020-04-18T03:35:08 < Steffanx> Awh damnit
2020-04-18T03:35:23 < kakimir> but ofc I could find a spot where there is 1.5km distance
2020-04-18T03:35:43 < kakimir> kakinull>
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2020-04-18T04:18:46 < aandrew> How would you know, kakimir?
2020-04-18T04:19:12 < kakinull> can you provide contex I'm nulling
2020-04-18T04:19:39 < kakinull> no lastlog
2020-04-18T04:19:41 < aandrew> Teh corona
2020-04-18T04:20:24 < kakinull> just the feeling
2020-04-18T04:22:37 < Steffanx> Its between your ears
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2020-04-18T04:33:17 < kakinull> it has penetrated blood-brain boundary?
2020-04-18T04:33:23 < kakinull> shiieet
2020-04-18T04:35:50 < englishman> k\o\w: where do i remember you from? your nick seems familiar now. and i havent been to foulab in 10 years
2020-04-18T04:36:13 < kakinull> *blood-brain membrain
2020-04-18T04:36:30 < kakinull> *blood-brain barrier!
2020-04-18T04:37:22 < k\o\w> openlrs?
2020-04-18T04:37:39 < englishman> really
2020-04-18T04:37:51 < englishman> yes it appears so
2020-04-18T04:38:49 < kakinull> openIRS?
2020-04-18T04:39:08 < kakinull> IRS
2020-04-18T04:39:27 < kakinull> open source the goverment
2020-04-18T04:39:29 < kakinull> !
2020-04-18T04:43:42 < bitmask> grrr, why wont this piece plate all over, its just in spots
2020-04-18T04:44:54 < kakinull> spots attract spots
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2020-04-18T04:47:12 < bitmask> SPOTS
2020-04-18T04:47:17 < bitmask> AHHHHH
2020-04-18T04:48:20 < kakinull> pic
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2020-04-18T05:08:51 < bitmask> not worth it
2020-04-18T05:09:31 < bitmask> its just a little printed part with two small areas plated and the rest black
2020-04-18T05:11:49 < bitmask> not sure if i should raise the current or let it go
2020-04-18T05:16:32 < bitmask> oh it is growing
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2020-04-18T05:16:36 < bitmask> guess i'll let it go
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2020-04-18T06:06:29 < Spirit532> since the actual programming channels don't have much to do with programming anymore and people here actually helped me earlier... 
2020-04-18T06:07:11 < Spirit532> are there any CMake/C++ wizards who would be willing to handhold me through setting up a very painful project to build and compile painlessly, for a few dollars?
2020-04-18T06:07:36 < Spirit532> I don't like big projects and this is frustrating me to the point of using money
2020-04-18T06:13:01 < dongs> i could point you towards a proper IDE
2020-04-18T06:13:16 < Spirit532> this needs to be crossplatform and it's a desktop app
2020-04-18T06:13:18 < dongs> that would help you get rid of garbage called make/cmake entirely
2020-04-18T06:13:25 < dongs> oh jesus. ur fukt.
2020-04-18T06:13:25 < Spirit532> no
2020-04-18T06:13:27 < Spirit532> yeah
2020-04-18T06:13:28 < dongs> sorry to hear that
2020-04-18T06:13:30 < Spirit532> sure am
2020-04-18T06:13:33 -!- fenugrec [~fenugrec@97.107.220.18] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds]
2020-04-18T06:13:40 < Spirit532> in embedded there's nothing like this crap
2020-04-18T06:13:59 < Spirit532> which is why I need help lol
2020-04-18T06:14:06 < Spirit532> wrong end of the pool
2020-04-18T06:15:27 < englishman> wasnt java supposed to solve this problem
2020-04-18T06:18:03 < Spirit532> I wish
2020-04-18T06:18:10 < Spirit532> this is a task for C/C++
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2020-04-18T06:40:01 < dongs> why the fuck does NRF have 3 different i2c preiperhals
2020-04-18T06:40:03 < dongs> all fucking broken
2020-04-18T06:40:08 < dongs> i still dont know hte difference between TWIM and TWI
2020-04-18T06:40:09 < Spirit532> Not RF
2020-04-18T06:40:10 < dongs> fuckign retarded shit
2020-04-18T06:40:50 < dongs> how can they release hardware for > 10 years and still have broken i2c clock stretching
2020-04-18T06:40:53 < dongs> holy fucking shit
2020-04-18T06:45:47 < machinehum> lol
2020-04-18T06:46:06 < machinehum> Hey what about NI?!? This shit sucks to!
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2020-04-18T07:18:02 < englishman> ni is great. in your case, it's the opensores python
2020-04-18T07:30:23 < Jak_o_Shadows> Hmm. How small can I make a stm32f1, 2 lots of 4 pin connetors, and a couple of 3-pin servo connectors.
2020-04-18T07:30:38 < dongs> start by: not having STM32F1
2020-04-18T07:30:57 < dongs> there's a 4x4mm STM32F0 with 28 pins.
2020-04-18T07:31:24 < Jak_o_Shadows> ah, damn, I thought someone would say that
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2020-04-18T07:33:13 < Jak_o_Shadows> Hmm. None of them have CAN.
2020-04-18T07:35:36 < dongs> that wasn't your requirement 10 seconds ago
2020-04-18T07:36:37 < Jak_o_Shadows> and also, I misread st's website
2020-04-18T07:36:47 < Jak_o_Shadows> TBH, i haven't decided on the comms bbit
2020-04-18T07:39:30 < Jak_o_Shadows> There's a TSSOP 20 one
2020-04-18T07:41:38 < dongs> wtf i cahnged nothing and now TWIM doesnt work either
2020-04-18T07:41:40 < dongs> what is this ridiculous hsit
2020-04-18T07:41:44 < dongs> fucking nrf trash
2020-04-18T07:41:52 < dongs> stm32 best stm
2020-04-18T07:46:06 < Thorn> i2c is better in nxp mcus
2020-04-18T07:48:12 < Thorn> free Kill Software for junior stm322, 256KB code limitation http://www2.keil.com/stmicroelectronics-stm32/mdk
2020-04-18T08:00:22 < dongs> ya
2020-04-18T08:04:18 < Jak_o_Shadows> Hmm. I should probably choose a better connector than the normal .1" pin headers
2020-04-18T08:08:34 < Jak_o_Shadows> Migth have to make the PCB bigger
2020-04-18T08:08:42 < Jak_o_Shadows> Or cram less stuff on it
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2020-04-18T09:08:48 < Thorn> free dev board with a webinar registration https://www.silabs.com/about-us/events/virtual-bluetooth-workshop
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2020-04-18T09:43:46 < qyx> Jak_o_Shadows: stm32f042g6u6 or so
2020-04-18T09:43:55 < qyx> has CAN for sure because I am using it
2020-04-18T09:44:29 < Jak_o_Shadows> Yeah. I am looking at the f042f6
2020-04-18T09:44:54 < Jak_o_Shadows> I want to get this down to a 25x12mm PCB if I can
2020-04-18T09:45:11 < Jak_o_Shadows> Which is looking rather too optimistic at this stage
2020-04-18T09:52:21 < Jak_o_Shadows> Bugger knows how I'm going to find the space to put the programming header on
2020-04-18T10:06:24 -!- Streaker [~Streaker@unaffiliated/streaker] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer]
2020-04-18T10:08:30 < Thorn> Jak_o_Shadows: use 0.5mm pitch fpc connectors, they are compact lol
2020-04-18T10:08:42 < jpa-> Jak_o_Shadows: use TC2030
2020-04-18T10:11:03 < Jak_o_Shadows> hmmm
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2020-04-18T10:34:46 < Jak_o_Shadows> Also, the good news is, the CAN RX/TX on A11/A12, are also SCL/SDA for i2c
2020-04-18T10:35:11 < Jak_o_Shadows> SO i can just bodge that for starters
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2020-04-18T11:05:57 < Jak_o_Shadows> Or add some solder jumpers!
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2020-04-18T11:35:01 < qyx> Jak_o_Shadows: I am using F042 with both CAN and I2C
2020-04-18T11:35:19 < Jak_o_Shadows> I probably don't need both
2020-04-18T11:35:41 < Jak_o_Shadows> Compactness is the popint here - otherwise I'd stick the the f103 boards, and have less work
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2020-04-18T11:42:39 < Mangy_Dog> sooo effing angry, i had to get up early to get to the post office to pay import fees for teh replacment stm32sf103cbs, these too are fake... fucking insult to injury 25 quid order with 13 quid import charge and ANOTHER set of fakes!
2020-04-18T11:43:53 < Steffanx> Time to buy real ones
2020-04-18T11:44:09 < Mangy_Dog> thats what i tried to do :/
2020-04-18T12:00:57 < qyx> you could have had at least 10 for that price
2020-04-18T12:01:51 < Mangy_Dog> i ordered 30 chips
2020-04-18T12:02:36 < qyx> fake
2020-04-18T12:02:57 < Mangy_Dog> obviously now
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2020-04-18T14:03:48 < Steffanx> im not even sure why you are angry Mangy_Dog. It was a risk you took and it turned out to a scam (again).
2020-04-18T14:05:08 < dongs> well shit
2020-04-18T14:19:45 < Mangy_Dog> I have every right to be upset... I didnt go for the cheapest of the bunch...
2020-04-18T14:19:58 < Mangy_Dog> cheaper than buying local sure
2020-04-18T14:20:08 < dongs> so i found the problem with this fucking i2c
2020-04-18T14:20:11 < dongs> at least, some of it anyway.
2020-04-18T14:20:20 < Mangy_Dog> but getting scammed twice in a row and this time paying import duty fees for it
2020-04-18T14:20:25 < Mangy_Dog> its an extra blow
2020-04-18T14:20:41 < dongs> i got it to at least read something valid for some inqueiries
2020-04-18T14:21:30 < dongs> because, my i2c write was S addr A reg A STOP S addr|1 A data A data A crc N STOP
2020-04-18T14:21:38 < dongs> apparently it REALLY didnt like that STOP
2020-04-18T14:21:54 < dongs> and actually needed a true repeated start without stop
2020-04-18T14:22:36 < dongs> https://i.imgur.com/InLBuZ8.png
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2020-04-18T14:30:03 < Thorn> is there any requirement on the minimum interval between a stop and the next start?
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2020-04-18T14:31:05 < dongs> STOP Condition Setup Time ?
2020-04-18T14:31:35 < dongs> all timing stuf is in us range, i doubt it would matter
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2020-04-18T14:33:49 < Thorn> no, something like time for a slave to process the previous transaction
2020-04-18T14:34:08 < Thorn> or does it have to be async
2020-04-18T14:37:15 < Mangy_Dog> ls lcsc legit enough to send real stm32s?
2020-04-18T14:38:40 < Mangy_Dog> and is the gd32 clone a reasonable replacment?
2020-04-18T14:40:14 < Thorn> all the ones I bought were legit but I never bought f103 or whatever is being cloned
2020-04-18T14:43:33 < dongs> Mangy_Dog: they will only send you STM32 if thats what you order
2020-04-18T14:43:38 < dongs> if you order a GD32 they'll send you a GD32.
2020-04-18T14:44:41 < Thorn> use gd32 if you like chasing undocumented incompatibilities (I dunno, maybe they've all been documented on blogs & forums by now, I've never had to use it, thankfully)
2020-04-18T14:46:45 < dongs> ok, gauge works fully
2020-04-18T14:46:50 < dongs> the rest of hte problems were code
2020-04-18T14:46:57 < dongs> < dongs> i got it to at least read something valid for some inqueiries
2020-04-18T14:47:11 < dongs> this was a bug in crc, i was calcualting crc for a specific register read not a generic read of any register
2020-04-18T14:47:31 < Mangy_Dog> thorn i dont know imn looking up right now, i thought the GD was a drop in replacment
2020-04-18T14:47:35 < Mangy_Dog> maybe not its clocked a bit higher
2020-04-18T14:47:40 < dongs> it is, mostly
2020-04-18T14:47:44 < dongs> i2c will NOT work as-is.
2020-04-18T14:47:48 < dongs> other stuff might
2020-04-18T14:47:55 < dongs> GD stdperiphlib is actually much neater to use
2020-04-18T14:47:56 < Mangy_Dog> does i2c work on the stm32?> :p
2020-04-18T14:47:58 < dongs> if you use the latest release
2020-04-18T14:48:08 < dongs> well, thats the thing
2020-04-18T14:48:13 < dongs> GD *fixes* the STM i2c
2020-04-18T14:48:26 < dongs> so code that depends on some brokedness in stm wil not work
2020-04-18T14:48:33 < Mangy_Dog> hmmhm
2020-04-18T14:49:01 < Mangy_Dog> but code thats built for stm32 will work on i2c? i actually have a i2c bit of hardware in one of my current projects in the design... not actually tested it on stm32 yet :/
2020-04-18T14:49:23 < Mangy_Dog> i just assumed it would work so its wired up in the design
2020-04-18T14:49:52 < dongs> worst case you can always buttbang i2c
2020-04-18T14:50:04 < Mangy_Dog> and i was asking about lcsc in case they done naughties too....
2020-04-18T14:50:16 < Mangy_Dog> but at least their prices are more reasonable than the locals
2020-04-18T14:50:27 < Cracki> figure out what you need to do for i2c to work on stm32f1. the gd32 might just ignore those antics and work as intended
2020-04-18T14:50:30 < Mangy_Dog> still a bit pricy for me at the moment but better than locals
2020-04-18T14:51:14 < Mangy_Dog> given im running 2 i2c chips at a high rate, im kinda not keen on bitbanging that
2020-04-18T14:51:46 < Mangy_Dog> not to mention im not entirely sure how to bitbang i2
2020-04-18T14:51:46 < Mangy_Dog> c
2020-04-18T14:53:16 < Mangy_Dog> i guess the other issue for using a GD for me would be cores like rogerclarks, (which i use a lto tbh) wont be compatable?
2020-04-18T14:53:25 < dongs> the what?
2020-04-18T14:53:43 < dongs> is that some opensores stdlib?
2020-04-18T14:54:12 < Mangy_Dog> rogerclarks stm32duino
2020-04-18T14:54:27 < dongs> if it targets f1 then you just use itr as-is
2020-04-18T14:54:37 < dongs> jsut dont complain when Wire or wahtever doesnt wrok
2020-04-18T14:55:35 < Mangy_Dog> is there likely a alt i2c library for gd i could call on?
2020-04-18T14:56:01 < dongs> it;'ll prolly jus work
2020-04-18T14:56:09 < dongs> knowing retarduino i doubt tehy used any advanced way of i2c
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2020-04-18T15:03:59 < Cracki> Mangy_Dog, the point is that ST's i2c needs some fuckery to work as designed, while GD doesn't need the fuckery, and may even tolerate it -> code that works on stm32f1 i2c may work on gd32
2020-04-18T15:08:13 < Mangy_Dog> nods
2020-04-18T15:08:42 < Mangy_Dog> though just reading that the gd 108mhz means it cant devide properly to 48mhz so USB is kinda not working off the bat
2020-04-18T15:08:50 < Mangy_Dog> but should oc to 120 fine and can devide down then
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2020-04-18T15:15:51 < Cracki> wat
2020-04-18T15:16:18 < Cracki> gaze upon the f103 clock tree
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2020-04-18T15:18:59 < Cracki> hm i think I see what you mean
2020-04-18T15:19:35 < Cracki> play around in cubemx maybe
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2020-04-18T15:28:53 < Cracki> you can always do 96 mhz. I think 108 might be achievable if you send sysclock twice as high, then halve it for hclk. would require usb divider to reach far enough
2020-04-18T15:30:10 < boddax> use ext clk
2020-04-18T15:34:41 < Mangy_Dog> i was just going by some of the skim reading
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2020-04-18T15:51:04 < Steffanx> hah upset i can understand Mangy_Dog. Angry i cannot :P
2020-04-18T16:00:45 < Mangy_Dog> well im not angry not really
2020-04-18T16:00:51 < Steffanx> Good good :)
2020-04-18T16:01:00 < Mangy_Dog> just upset :p a little infuriated and more so to having to pay input tax on it :/
2020-04-18T16:01:11 < Steffanx> unless its angry at Mangy_Dog, then its ok :P
2020-04-18T16:01:26 < Mangy_Dog> i might be able to get the refund on the purchase... but wont get a refund at the input
2020-04-18T16:01:41 < Mangy_Dog> import
2020-04-18T16:03:38 < invzim> hm, using the default TNT from pcbcart may have been a mistake
2020-04-18T16:03:46 < jpa-> Mangy_Dog: what do you need so many chips for anyway?
2020-04-18T16:03:56 < invzim> anyone gotten anything from China with a courier lately?
2020-04-18T16:04:19 < Mangy_Dog> im always using them
2020-04-18T16:04:21 < Mangy_Dog> i was stocking up
2020-04-18T16:04:23 < jpa-> invzim: a month ago there was no problem, but dunno now that flights have stopped
2020-04-18T16:04:55 < invzim> I ship stuff from NO->everywehere with FedEx, and last couple of weeks they have had delays
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2020-04-18T16:25:15 < kakimir> should I have rs485 adapter?
2020-04-18T16:26:44 < kakimir> I have never had a use for such
2020-04-18T16:31:06 < kakimir> for many embedded jubbs rs485 skills are listed as of some essential skills
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2020-04-18T16:52:43 < karlp> zyp: yeha, heard somewhat mixed feedback on some of the ubnt stuff, it's also noticelably more expensive I think
2020-04-18T16:55:45 < zyp> my general impression is that ubnt has better software, mikrotik has cheaper hardware
2020-04-18T16:57:25 < karlp> any of you nerds have opinions on kitchen counter top materials?
2020-04-18T16:57:50 < karlp> looking at some HPL from these guys, https://www.arpaindustriale.com/en/hpl/features but don't really have any strong opinion on it
2020-04-18T16:58:05 < karlp> not at all interested in re-oiling a wooden one over and over
2020-04-18T16:58:40 < zyp> if I had the money, I'd go with stone
2020-04-18T16:58:53 < zyp> but since I've got more useful stuff to spend it on, I went with laminate
2020-04-18T16:59:32 < zyp> can always tear it out and replace it with stone when we manage to wear out the laminate
2020-04-18T17:02:30 < zyp> like, we have something like this now: https://www.ikea.com/no/no/p/ekbacken-spesialtilpasset-benkeplate-mork-gra-linmonster-linmonster-laminat-90354313/
2020-04-18T17:02:43 < zyp> and if money weren't an object, I'd probably rather get something like this: https://www.ikea.com/no/no/p/kasker-spesialtilpasset-benkeplate-matt-mork-gra-marmormonstret-kvarts-40428359/
2020-04-18T17:02:50 < zyp> only 10x more expensive :)
2020-04-18T17:04:31 < dongs>  /no/no/
2020-04-18T17:04:41 < zyp> /yes/yes/
2020-04-18T17:05:10 < karlp> hrm, I'v ehad stone before, I didn't like it honestly.
2020-04-18T17:06:45 < karlp> heh, the kasker stone isn't on ikea.is anyway
2020-04-18T17:07:37 < karlp> I'm kinda interestedin this composite stone stuff, getting a sink with it, https://www.getacore.com/en/ but I think that might be too much :)
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2020-04-18T17:08:21 < zyp> yeah, I've got this: https://www.ikea.com/no/no/p/haellviken-innbyggingskum-1-1-2-kum-m-avrenning-svart-kvartskompositt-s79158196/
2020-04-18T17:08:59 < zyp> nicer than stainless steel IMO
2020-04-18T17:10:15 < karlp> yeah, I want one of them too.
2020-04-18T17:10:21 < karlp> regardless of what the counters are
2020-04-18T17:10:37 < karlp> currently "debating" with the wife about two holes and a draining area or not
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2020-04-18T17:12:13 < zyp> I like the one and a half sink setup that we've got
2020-04-18T17:12:43 < karlp> we haev a 1.5, with no drain space now, I hate it, would rather 1 big sink, with nothing, or one big sink with a draining area.
2020-04-18T17:12:53 < karlp> faq: "How do I get scratches out of High Gloss?
2020-04-18T17:12:55 < karlp> You don't!
2020-04-18T17:13:12 < englishman> karlp: ubnt configuration is complicated and horrible plus the hardware died after a year and a day
2020-04-18T17:13:21 < englishman> that's my data point
2020-04-18T17:13:36 < karlp> yeah, I've heard mixed on the ubnt stuff :)
2020-04-18T17:13:41 < karlp> seemst obe very love/hate
2020-04-18T17:13:57 < zyp> IMO two full sinks are kinda unnecessary since most stuff just goes in the dishwasher anyway, the half sink is useful for the occasions where the main sink is in use and you need to tap water or whatever
2020-04-18T17:14:32 < zyp> the drain area is mostly being used to stack up dirty stuff that's going in the dishwasher
2020-04-18T17:14:45 < englishman> Ikea has custom granite countertops. I'll be going with those when we redo the kitchen
2020-04-18T17:15:10 < englishman> the laminate ones are all stained with turmeric
2020-04-18T17:15:14 < zyp> englishman, have you tried mikrotik in comparison?
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2020-04-18T17:15:59 < englishman> I haven't, but in the summer when I'm crawling around that area I'll pull out the ubnt and think about replacing it. dongs uses them so he's probably fine. 
2020-04-18T17:17:08 < zyp> also, what ubnt stuff do you have?
2020-04-18T17:17:40 < englishman> Asus wrt opensores routers. the ubnt stuff was supposed to be some access points to extend range to the other buildings
2020-04-18T17:18:17 < englishman> if it didn't suck, I'd get some high gains to have internet in the fields. but it died
2020-04-18T17:19:14 < Steffanx> My unifi works fine. Installed it once and never touched it since.
2020-04-18T17:19:32 < Steffanx> Except for some updates 
2020-04-18T17:19:58 < englishman> point to point is also interesting, as we could share the 1.5/1.5gbit connection with a neighbour. mikrotik seems to be the only one to sell that to the public now, ubnt hides their prices now
2020-04-18T17:22:08 < zyp> uh, wat?
2020-04-18T17:22:42 < zyp> ubnt point to point gear are normal off the shelf stuff in stores here
2020-04-18T17:23:21 < englishman> what stores do you go to that has this on the shelf
2020-04-18T17:23:27 < englishman> and chrome cast audio
2020-04-18T17:24:04 < englishman> god damn this ubnt website
2020-04-18T17:24:06 < englishman> can't find shit
2020-04-18T17:24:21 < zyp> https://www.dustinhome.no/product/5011036135/litebeam-ac-lbe-5ac-gen2 <- well, I bought these last year from there
2020-04-18T17:24:23 < englishman> slow as molasses
2020-04-18T17:25:29 < zyp> https://www.kjell.com/no/produkter/nettverk/tradlost-nettverk/aksesspunkter/ubiquiti-unifi-uap-ac-lite-roaming-aksesspunkt-ac1200-p61299 <- and I also bought this last year from there, which is a local store 20 minutes away
2020-04-18T17:26:09 < englishman> Your search for "litebeam*" did not yield any results.
2020-04-18T17:26:18 < englishman> on ubnt store
2020-04-18T17:26:25 < zyp> heh
2020-04-18T17:26:28 < englishman> shit like that
2020-04-18T17:26:33 < englishman> turns me off right away
2020-04-18T17:26:55 < englishman> yeah that ac-lite died after a year and a day
2020-04-18T17:27:08 < zyp> this, you mean: https://store.ui.com/collections/operator-airmax-and-ltu/products/litebeam-5ac-gen2 =
2020-04-18T17:27:11 < zyp> ?
2020-04-18T17:27:16 < zyp> works for me
2020-04-18T17:27:50 < englishman> ah, not in the canada store.
2020-04-18T17:27:54 < englishman> so fuck me then
2020-04-18T17:28:08 < zyp> heh
2020-04-18T17:28:13 < englishman> oh like
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2020-04-18T17:28:16 < zyp> you have some weird RF legislation or something?
2020-04-18T17:28:21 < englishman> I went to the pharmacy yesterday
2020-04-18T17:28:34 < englishman> and after the sanitizer and shit the guy says "shop as quickly as you can"
2020-04-18T17:28:35 < englishman> ????
2020-04-18T17:28:46 < englishman> you think Im here because I want to be
2020-04-18T17:28:49 < englishman> asshole
2020-04-18T17:29:18 < englishman> no, I've seen the airmax stuff here before
2020-04-18T17:29:29 < englishman> probably ubnt fail. or some exclusive distributor dead
2020-04-18T17:29:55 < englishman> deal
2020-04-18T17:30:17 < zyp> yeah, probably some bullshit like that
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2020-04-18T17:59:22 < Thorn> can you decode mp3 in real time on nrf52832? (or maybe 840)
2020-04-18T18:03:40 < boddax> <- using VS1053B from vlsi
2020-04-18T18:24:03 < Streaker> Cheap china mp3 players do it on an 8051
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2020-04-18T18:32:13 < kakimir> recommend rs485 tranceiver
2020-04-18T18:32:40 < zyp> max485
2020-04-18T18:38:10 -!- jsoft [~jsoft@unaffiliated/jsoft] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds]
2020-04-18T18:47:22 < kakimir> how about stuff with built in isolation?
2020-04-18T18:49:09 < dongs> usually expensive 
2020-04-18T18:49:36 < kakimir> ah
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2020-04-18T18:50:00 < kakimir> what is the difference between rs485 tranceiver and can tranceiver?
2020-04-18T18:50:06 < kakimir> both look very similar
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2020-04-18T18:53:12 < kakimir> ah yes
2020-04-18T18:53:17 < kakimir> that dominant thing
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2020-04-18T19:24:28 < Thorn> the spiritdsp mp3 decoder in x-cube-audio is a demo version, correct?
2020-04-18T19:47:38 < Thorn> has anyone heard of some kind of high level online training by ST held between 20 and 24 april?
2020-04-18T19:47:58 < Thorn> the only way I found to register is through https://www.compel.ru/lib/137794
2020-04-18T19:53:03 < Cracki> they have "webinars" all the time
2020-04-18T19:53:57 < Cracki> hows this https://www.st.com/content/st_com/en/about/events/upcoming-events-and-technical-seminars.html
2020-04-18T19:57:26 < Thorn> I don't see any of those events there
2020-04-18T20:01:58 < BrainDamage> https://github.com/gnu-linux-activation-technologies/howtotell
2020-04-18T20:03:18 < Cracki> > Top languages  Perl  TSQL
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2020-04-18T20:14:41 < Thorn> why not autolisp and brainfuck
2020-04-18T20:19:27 -!- Thorn [~Thorn@unaffiliated/thorn] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds]
2020-04-18T20:20:56 < Cracki> so the local fablab forgot to close their booking page.... and it seems I'm the first in weeks who ignored their big red warnings and booked an hour anyway. now they removed the slots :D
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2020-04-18T20:51:14 < catphish> anyone know if sigrok can decode a syncronous serial protocol? seems like it *should* but struggling to find the option
2020-04-18T20:51:53 < Cracki> try parallel with 1 line? :P
2020-04-18T20:52:07 < Cracki> how does synchronous serial differ from spi
2020-04-18T20:52:18 < Cracki> (spi without slave select)
2020-04-18T20:52:32 < Cracki> when in doubt try #sigrok
2020-04-18T20:52:59 < Cracki> try pulseview, makes browing PDs easier
2020-04-18T20:53:09 < catphish> actually i think SPI mode might be good enough, thanks
2020-04-18T20:53:21 < catphish> yeah i'm using pulseview
2020-04-18T21:03:33 < zyp> when you say synchronous serial, it can refer to something SPI-like, or like UART with a clock line
2020-04-18T21:04:38 < Cracki> I guess "SART" has a start bit too
2020-04-18T21:05:00 < zyp> exactly
2020-04-18T21:05:01 < Cracki> wait, USRT
2020-04-18T21:05:10 < Cracki> depending on universality
2020-04-18T21:05:10 < catphish> specifically the thing i'm trying to decode is "magstripe track 2"
2020-04-18T21:05:15 < catphish> it has a clock and a data line
2020-04-18T21:05:52 < zyp> uh
2020-04-18T21:05:54 < catphish> i believe it uses 4 data bits plus one check bit
2020-04-18T21:06:53 < zyp> «track 2» seems to refer to the on card format
2020-04-18T21:07:05 < zyp> the clock line is not recovered by the reader or something?
2020-04-18T21:07:41 < catphish> well in my case it's an RFID reeader, it simulates the clock and data that would come from a real card reader i guess
2020-04-18T21:08:04 < zyp> heh
2020-04-18T21:08:17 < catphish> https://i.imgur.com/yQdaHIA.png
2020-04-18T21:08:46 < catphish> the first annoyance is the data is inverted, the second is the weird clock pulse at the start
2020-04-18T21:08:47 < zyp> is this some 125kHz shit?
2020-04-18T21:08:50 < catphish> yes
2020-04-18T21:09:10 < zyp> you wanna support some legacy keycards?
2020-04-18T21:09:23 < catphish> yes
2020-04-18T21:09:25 < zyp> I assume this is for your door stuff?
2020-04-18T21:09:33 < catphish> my building is wired with these 125KHz readers
2020-04-18T21:09:39 < catphish> they output wiegand or this
2020-04-18T21:09:45 < boddax> why doesnt start at clock rise?
2020-04-18T21:10:01 < catphish> boddax: i believe there's an all-zeros preamble
2020-04-18T21:10:15 < Steffanx>  "my" building ;)
2020-04-18T21:10:15 < zyp> ah, right, you're keeping the reader, just replacing the logic behind
2020-04-18T21:10:30 < catphish> zyp: yeah, keeping the readers, maglocks, etc
2020-04-18T21:10:34 < catphish> just replacing the controller
2020-04-18T21:10:46 < catphish> actually it's not my building any more :)
2020-04-18T21:11:08 < catphish> https://atech.media
2020-04-18T21:14:53 < catphish> so it seems to have one broken clock cycle, then 15 clock cycles with no data, then after that every group of 5 bits has an odd number of "1s"
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2020-04-18T22:13:50 < boddax> freerunning ?
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2020-04-18T22:25:26 < catphish> ah, i got the endian of my digits the wrong way round, making more sense now
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2020-04-18T22:41:32 < catphish> got it :)
2020-04-18T22:41:57 < catphish> stupid binary coded decimal format
2020-04-18T22:42:41 < catphish> now just to work if if stm32 can decode it
2020-04-18T22:44:52 < catphish> zyp: i got my stl32 to reply to ARP requests by the way, shouldn't be too tricky now to add UDP
2020-04-18T22:45:16 < catphish> but got distracted by the card reader
2020-04-18T22:59:24 < zyp> :)
2020-04-18T22:59:36 < zyp> told you ethernet wasn't that hard
2020-04-18T23:05:33 < catphish> star trek has some marvellous commentary on society at times
2020-04-18T23:05:44 < catphish> "Ferengi workers don't want to stop the exploitation; we want to find a way to become the exploiters."
2020-04-18T23:05:59 < Cracki> commentary on contemporary "star trek" https://www.youtube.com/channel/UC70RHgm8FoCkN2163piIfVg
2020-04-18T23:06:46 < catphish> wow thats a lot of videos
2020-04-18T23:06:47 < Cracki> ferengi don't have class warfare. that's divisive bullshit designed to erase a people
2020-04-18T23:07:51 < Cracki> successful ideologies dont look for an enemy within, but without
2020-04-18T23:08:09 < Cracki> may be among you, but isn't one of you
2020-04-18T23:08:27 < Cracki> he's doing short little videos, very poignant
2020-04-18T23:10:33 < Cracki> tldw: kurtzman is a hack and butchered it all
2020-04-18T23:20:07 < specing> Honestly the federation crews should be played by some other species
2020-04-18T23:20:12 < specing> and the ferengi by humans
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2020-04-18T23:29:05 < Steffanx> Heh, its funny how bad the acting was back in the days
2020-04-18T23:30:57 < specing> yes
2020-04-18T23:31:18 < specing> it still is
2020-04-18T23:31:36 < catphish> i've never watched the original star trek series
2020-04-18T23:31:49 < catphish> the acting in newer ones is "variable" :)
2020-04-18T23:32:18 < catphish> annoyingly, it doesn't seem like the stm32 uart can handle this serial format :(
2020-04-18T23:33:02 < zyp> use SPI
2020-04-18T23:35:12 < Cracki> there is no S in UART
2020-04-18T23:40:32 < mawk> there's a USART in stm32
2020-04-18T23:41:41 < qyx> catphish: as zyp says
2020-04-18T23:42:26 < catphish> i think this protocol is just too different, most notably the 5 bit bytes
2020-04-18T23:42:36 < catphish> 4 data + 1 checksum
2020-04-18T23:43:12 < Steffanx> 5 bit byte :)
2020-04-18T23:43:54 < mawk> best kind of byte
2020-04-18T23:44:29 < Cracki> nibbles with a twist
2020-04-18T23:44:42 < catphish> i'll probably have to just do it manually with an interrupt
2020-04-18T23:46:52 < catphish> the clock starts, then at some time later the data starts, consisting of 4 bits data, 1 bit check, repeated for a fixed number of characters (they're BCD)
2020-04-18T23:48:17 < Steffanx> Can we extract some intersting information from that capture you posted btw?
2020-04-18T23:48:51 < catphish> you could
2020-04-18T23:49:40 < Steffanx> Gonna steal your servers
2020-04-18T23:49:51 < Steffanx> Your boss's servers
2020-04-18T23:50:24 < catphish> if you start from the first data bit, decode it as i stated above (4 bits data, 1 bit checksum), then interpret as as BCD (LSB first) you will get a card number
2020-04-18T23:51:07 < catphish> unfortunately for you, this particular card probably won't get you into anything because it's one i chose off the top of a pile of spares
2020-04-18T23:52:45 < Steffanx> Awh :)
2020-04-18T23:52:47 < qyx> catphish: still doable with spi
2020-04-18T23:52:58 < catphish> qyx: interesting. how?
2020-04-18T23:53:02 < qyx> with some bit manipulation afterwards
2020-04-18T23:53:15 < catphish> just pull it in 8 bits at a time?
2020-04-18T23:53:18 < qyx> or set your spi data length to 10bits
2020-04-18T23:53:39 < Steffanx> But what if its 20 bits? How to get the last 4?
2020-04-18T23:53:49 < Steffanx> Or 25
2020-04-18T23:53:57 < Steffanx> If you can go with 10
2020-04-18T23:54:17 < qyx> but true, with exti it is easier
2020-04-18T23:54:28 < catphish> i think exti will be the cleaner approach
2020-04-18T23:59:00 < qyx> so I connected sim800c to my omega2s, clicky clicky in Luci, it works
2020-04-18T23:59:14 < qyx> I was quite surprised
2020-04-18T23:59:50 < catphish> also, i can't use SPI on my prototypes anyway
--- Day changed Sun Apr 19 2020
2020-04-19T00:00:07 < catphish> not without some nasty rewiring
2020-04-19T00:01:06 < Steffanx> What is Luci 
2020-04-19T00:03:13 < karlp> web ui for openwrt
2020-04-19T00:03:53 < Steffanx> I googled in the meantime ;)
2020-04-19T00:04:40 < Steffanx> Luckily the first hit on Google gives me a page with 2 dead links :) 
2020-04-19T00:04:44 < Steffanx> https://oldwiki.archive.openwrt.org/doc/techref/luci
2020-04-19T00:05:02 < Steffanx> (I know it says old, but.. Google serves me that)
2020-04-19T00:05:05 < karlp> eyah, the time the mgration took meant tha tgoogle was like, "fuck you, we're keepign the old one now"
2020-04-19T00:05:41 < PaulFertser> Current LuCI is all JS, basically just calling an RPC API.
2020-04-19T00:06:13 < Steffanx> Is that a good or a bad thing? JS is bad right (##stm32 opinion, not my own)
2020-04-19T00:07:07 < qyx> why should it be bad
2020-04-19T00:07:20 < qyx> you can render the thing on your multi-GHz desktop
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2020-04-19T00:07:25 < qyx> instead of a resource constrained router
2020-04-19T00:14:16 < karlp> it's gnerally a very good thing.
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2020-04-19T00:56:13 < kakimir> how is innovation
2020-04-19T00:56:42 < jadew> I've done a lot of work in the past week
2020-04-19T00:57:17 < jadew> been stuck since the pandemic started
2020-04-19T01:03:50 < kakimir> me too. "work" at least
2020-04-19T01:04:48 < kakimir> projects
2020-04-19T01:06:47 < jadew> I managed to tidy up the lab (which was a 3-day job)
2020-04-19T01:06:53 -!- machinehum [~machinehu@2601:600:837f:9080:de:3b73:ecdc:6d42] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds]
2020-04-19T01:07:07 < jadew> and eventually got around to test a board I had on my bench for two months
2020-04-19T01:10:42 < zyp> hey, how would you guys go about tapping a USB2 signal? as in, I want to put a circuit in line with a bus that outputs a copy of the bus state on a separate port
2020-04-19T01:11:02 < zyp> LS/FS is easy, just plain 0-3.3V logic
2020-04-19T01:11:39 < zyp> but HS is 400mV differential at a nominal common mode voltage of 200mV, but which might vary
2020-04-19T01:12:11 < kakimir> can tranceiver eavesdrop?
2020-04-19T01:13:11 < zyp> a standard USB PHY can be configured to, but I don't want to place a transceiver on this board, I want to connect this board with a cable to a board that has the transceiver
2020-04-19T01:15:28 < karlp> way out of my transmission line theory world
2020-04-19T01:16:31 < zyp> or to put it another way, I want to feed a copy of the USB signals to a board that already has a USB2 transceiver but is not designed as a pass through thing like boards actually designed for USB analysis are
2020-04-19T01:17:50 < zyp> this is related to the USB3 tap thing I were thinking out loud about the other day, I figure if I make a USB3 tap, it should grab any USB2 signals as well
2020-04-19T01:19:23 < qyx> uhm, one of those superfast opamps?
2020-04-19T01:19:47 < Cracki> for active probe?
2020-04-19T01:19:48 < qyx> or a diff redriver?
2020-04-19T01:20:44 < zyp> I looked at opamps/buffer amps, even the shit that claims single supply rail to rail is not specced to work at like 0-400mV
2020-04-19T01:21:05 < zyp> and having to add a negative supply sounds fucking annoying
2020-04-19T01:21:50 < qyx> couldn't you cap-couple it and bias as you wish?
2020-04-19T01:22:39 < zyp> if all I wanted was HS support, probably
2020-04-19T01:23:46 < zyp> but I want FS support as well (and HS enumeration)
2020-04-19T01:30:41 < karlp> w.... kicad doens't have smbj tvs diodes.
2020-04-19T01:30:56 < zyp> then add them?
2020-04-19T01:31:01 < karlp> well, duh
2020-04-19T01:31:12 < karlp> just super surprised, given how much they do have, 
2020-04-19T01:31:42 < zyp> I guess kicad users are #yolo and doesn't care about tvs diodes :)
2020-04-19T01:32:17 < karlp> yet they have this one, which is $$: https://bin.jvnv.net/file/dvuxu.png
2020-04-19T01:32:22 < karlp> and look at that amaze symbol
2020-04-19T01:32:30 < karlp> like, "hah! look what I can _draw_!"
2020-04-19T01:32:48 < zyp> what's that? a crowbar?
2020-04-19T01:32:54 < karlp> tvs :)
2020-04-19T01:33:07 < karlp> "Flat-Clamp Surge Protection Device"
2020-04-19T01:33:09 < karlp> TI special
2020-04-19T01:34:34 < zyp> heh, I googled TVS0500DRV, got seven hits and you are one of those
2020-04-19T01:34:54 < karlp> me?
2020-04-19T01:35:17 < englishman> zyp, adding a negative supply is not annoying at all
2020-04-19T01:35:24 < zyp> karlp, https://bin.jvnv.net/file/YvUPX.png
2020-04-19T01:35:40 < karlp> wat?
2020-04-19T01:35:43 < englishman> put a shitty charge pump and done, they are pretty good these days
2020-04-19T01:35:44 < karlp> what link does that take  yhou to?
2020-04-19T01:35:51 < karlp> I sure as shit didnd't add that tvs0500drv
2020-04-19T01:35:54 < zyp> gitmemory
2020-04-19T01:36:42 < zyp> no hits on the actual page though
2020-04-19T01:37:06 < qyx> karlp: it as a bidir one
2020-04-19T01:37:13 < qyx> for unidirectional, I am using a zener symbol :X
2020-04-19T01:37:24 < qyx> and SMBJ footprint is there
2020-04-19T01:37:28 < karlp> qyx: yeah, still dumb as fuck though
2020-04-19T01:37:32 < qyx> sure
2020-04-19T01:37:33 < karlp> SMB the footprint
2020-04-19T01:37:36 < zyp> why not a bidir zener symbol for a bidir tvs?
2020-04-19T01:37:36 < qyx> yes
2020-04-19T01:37:43 < qyx> because thres none
2020-04-19T01:37:45 < karlp> but was expecting to find the SMBJ MPNs at least
2020-04-19T01:38:03 < qyx> I mean
2020-04-19T01:38:23 < karlp> they have D_TVS which is a bidir https://bin.jvnv.net/file/dX5NB.png
2020-04-19T01:38:24 < qyx> theres a bidir tvs symbol looking like a bidir zener and called a bidir tvs
2020-04-19T01:38:38 < zyp> https://bin.jvnv.net/file/43Mql.png <- this is how I draw bidir tvs
2020-04-19T01:38:45  * karlp is just goign to call it a zener and assign the SMB footprint
2020-04-19T01:39:07 < qyx> I don't draw discretes
2020-04-19T01:39:12 < qyx> they should be already drawn
2020-04-19T01:40:16  * karlp wonders how much input cap to have for this "external regulated 5V supply" he expects
2020-04-19T01:40:31 < zyp> 10u?
2020-04-19T01:41:20 < zyp> englishman, what about noise?
2020-04-19T01:43:04 < zyp> hmm, maybe I should make some board to test that
2020-04-19T01:43:05 < englishman> often it isn't an issue, if it is you can add an ldo after or another kind of filter if you want to go crazy
2020-04-19T01:43:54 < kakimir> I wonder where I could get solder paste
2020-04-19T01:44:00 < kakimir> zyp?
2020-04-19T01:44:08 < zyp> I don't have any solder paste for you
2020-04-19T01:44:11 < kakimir> as fellow almost EU citizen
2020-04-19T01:44:15 -!- catphish [~user@unaffiliated/catphish] has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds]
2020-04-19T01:44:18 < englishman> or use a charge pump much faster than the signal you are measuring, but that doesn't apply in your case
2020-04-19T01:44:40 < zyp> faster than HS USB? good luck :)
2020-04-19T01:50:57 < karlp> zyp: yar, have 10u on the regulator, was just thiniking abotu bulking it up a bit, but not entirely sure _why_ 
2020-04-19T01:51:40 < englishman> many opamps don't even give psrr for the negative rail so you kind of have to wing it
2020-04-19T01:52:01 < zyp> I think maybe I should do a simple board to test
2020-04-19T01:53:51 < kakimir> I think I will order my project boards and leave current project for more thought
2020-04-19T01:54:05 < kakimir> do nothing hastly
2020-04-19T01:54:43 < kakimir> current project is 2layer anyway and no need for flex
2020-04-19T01:54:54 < kakimir> so that could be separate JLC order
2020-04-19T02:01:24 < kakimir> hmm some lady gaga show is starting
2020-04-19T02:01:26 < kakimir> live
2020-04-19T02:01:47 < kakimir> apparently other artists too
2020-04-19T02:02:45 < kakimir> maybe tommorow I need to cut my beard a bit
2020-04-19T02:02:55 < karlp> lady gaga is visiting you?
2020-04-19T02:03:12 < kakimir> nah
2020-04-19T02:03:18 < kakimir> it's online something
2020-04-19T02:03:27 < kakimir> 1hour from now
2020-04-19T02:03:54 < kakimir> I need to shave my beard and maybe I invent a new style that fits with full mask
2020-04-19T02:04:47 < kakimir> https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/a/a0/Hitler_as_young_man.jpg
2020-04-19T02:07:46 < karlp> hrm, probably no poitn using smbj5, breakdown isn't til ~8V, and the regulator blows up at 6...
2020-04-19T02:08:14 < karlp> sd05-7 instead
2020-04-19T02:09:07 < kakimir> sub 10V TVS is not fun
2020-04-19T02:09:22 < qyx> karlp using TVS for overvoltage protection?
2020-04-19T02:09:36 < qyx> feeling adventurous today?
2020-04-19T02:11:23 < karlp> :)
2020-04-19T02:11:53 < karlp> well, it's not doing overvoltage protection, but if it's going to do tvs, it's still gotta do it.
2020-04-19T02:12:11 < karlp> it's meant to be getting regulated 5V anywya.
2020-04-19T02:12:40 < qyx> I am doing the same
2020-04-19T02:12:46 < karlp> feeling stupid and exhausted really,
2020-04-19T02:13:03 < qyx> generally pi filter 1u/FB/10u + 5V TVS
2020-04-19T02:13:29 < karlp> eh, I'm not concerned with pi filter for emi, that's gotta get solved by the power supply side.
2020-04-19T02:14:06 < karlp> 5V tvs, 100u for the bulk 5V "regulated" (externally)
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2020-04-19T02:14:41 < kakimir> pi?
2020-04-19T02:14:42 < qyx> in my toy theres a plenty of possiblities of generating unwanted noise, I don't want to have it on the backplane power supply rail
2020-04-19T02:15:18 < qyx> I did not have any time to measure things yet, so meh
2020-04-19T02:16:08 < karlp> yeah, you've got way more going on, my shit is stupid dumb. no reason it's not feinished yet
2020-04-19T02:16:47 < karlp> just feature creep putting in esd protection on the usb ports: https://bin.jvnv.net/file/oIyJX.png
2020-04-19T02:17:44 < kakimir> is it though?
2020-04-19T02:18:31 < qyx> hm that usb hub, it is coming on tuesday hopefully
2020-04-19T02:18:46 < qyx> I wish it works
2020-04-19T02:19:54 < qyx> https://bin.jvnv.net/file/67eNR.JPG
2020-04-19T02:20:15 < qyx> I am starting to hate manual soldering
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2020-04-19T02:22:54 < zyp> about time
2020-04-19T02:23:03 < zyp> why are you not reflowing?
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2020-04-19T02:26:22 < qyx> because lazy
2020-04-19T02:26:30 < zyp> does not compute
2020-04-19T02:26:42 < zyp> > is lazy
2020-04-19T02:26:46 < zyp> > does it the hard way
2020-04-19T02:27:18 < qyx> I mean lazy to do/obtain an oven not costing half a million
2020-04-19T02:28:26 < zyp> just get a chinese firetrap
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2020-04-19T02:31:49 < karlp> does stenciling paste and placing and then just waving the hot around over it count as manual?
2020-04-19T02:32:33 < zyp> somewhere in the middle
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2020-04-19T02:39:02 < Cracki> >skillet reflow
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2020-04-19T02:40:34 < Cracki> >watching solder melt https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ToX7aISFjsg
2020-04-19T02:42:52 < karlp> jesus fuck kicad
2020-04-19T02:43:01 < karlp> sometimes it's so absolutely fucking moronic
2020-04-19T02:43:18 < kakinull> layout?
2020-04-19T02:43:35 < kakinull> you don't yet know how to snake the snake?
2020-04-19T02:48:53 < karlp> no, inspect->list nets is a fucking modal
2020-04-19T02:48:59 < karlp> and worse, you can't even drag it around
2020-04-19T02:49:21 < karlp> it just complete obscures the background, even though it's live highlighting the nets you select
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2020-04-19T03:21:56 < Laurenceb> HeLlO Im FrOm ReDdIt
2020-04-19T03:23:16 < zyp> how is support for multidrop swd nowadays?
2020-04-19T03:23:24 < zyp> anybody used it?
2020-04-19T03:23:58 < zyp> can I put two stm32g0 on a board and hook them up to the same debugging connector?
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2020-04-19T03:33:29 < catphish> jlcpcb don't seem to appreciate some of kicad's footprints https://i.imgur.com/cahEo2J.png
2020-04-19T03:33:36 < catphish> lets hope they're mistaken
2020-04-19T03:34:34 < zyp> hope that rj45 is tab up
2020-04-19T03:34:45 < zyp> otherwise enjoy unplugging the cable :)
2020-04-19T03:35:35 < catphish> lol i can't say i checked
2020-04-19T03:36:26 < catphish> lol no https://media.digikey.com/Photos/Amphenol%20Photos/RJMG1BD3B8K1ANR.jpg
2020-04-19T03:36:42 < zyp> :D
2020-04-19T03:36:50 < catphish> good thing it's for permanent install!
2020-04-19T03:37:35 < catphish> i thought it would be nice to place stuff away from the edge
2020-04-19T03:38:18 < catphish> wonder why they couldn't find the pads
2020-04-19T03:38:23 < catphish> they're clearly there
2020-04-19T03:38:42 < catphish> https://i.imgur.com/tzayG5R.png
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2020-04-19T04:29:05 < kakinull> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hKXwQy8BIk0 musics
2020-04-19T04:29:37 < kakinull> catphish: really clean design I like it
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2020-04-19T04:52:27 < kakinull> zyp: connector won't lock.. I'm pro with mid board magjacks
2020-04-19T04:52:49 < kakinull> I checked them dimensions
2020-04-19T05:00:25 < kakinull> the tab extends like 3mm bellow the pcb surface level
2020-04-19T05:00:56 < kakinull> luckily there might be vertical magjack available too
2020-04-19T05:01:07 < kakinull> for the same footprint
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2020-04-19T08:16:19 < dongs> sup dongs
2020-04-19T08:16:30 < jpa-> not dongs
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2020-04-19T09:39:54 < machinehum> not dongs
2020-04-19T09:41:04 < machinehum> dongs: does your iot dildo have it's own cryptocurrency yet?
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2020-04-19T10:02:57 < Sadale> lol is dongs making an iot dildo?
2020-04-19T10:03:58 < machinehum> Last time I checked
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2020-04-19T11:53:35 < catphish> kakinull: thanks, annoying about the jack though :(
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2020-04-19T12:08:50 < catphish> sadly i don't think i can change it
2020-04-19T12:13:09 < Thorn> will this run on a 64MHz m4f? https://github.com/lieff/minimp3/blob/master/minimp3.h
2020-04-19T12:18:19 < catphish> i guess i could make an adapter board to a different magjack
2020-04-19T12:18:52 < catphish> or just cut out the board
2020-04-19T12:20:40 < dongs> Thorn: you plan to port all the SSE parts to M4 DSP?
2020-04-19T12:23:16 < catphish> ah, i can raise it off the board with 2.54mm female pin headers, yuck, but should work
2020-04-19T12:23:40 < dongs> just break the tab off
2020-04-19T12:25:10 < Steffanx> It works amazingly well on my F722 thorn. 
2020-04-19T12:25:13 < catphish> fucking retard https://i.imgur.com/9BFydFl.png
2020-04-19T12:25:22 < Steffanx> 2 streams at once
2020-04-19T12:25:39 < catphish> dongs: i could do that too, but they the cable doesn't stay in
2020-04-19T12:25:51 < catphish> i could drill 2 holes in the board and cable tie it
2020-04-19T12:25:55 < Steffanx> But with cache et all, tcm and fpu it has a load of 30-40%
2020-04-19T12:25:57 < dongs> drill 2 holes around the cable and ziptie it in
2020-04-19T12:26:12 < catphish> ^
2020-04-19T12:26:28 < dongs> how did this happen anyway
2020-04-19T12:26:34 < dongs> who designed that shit (((in kikecad ))
2020-04-19T12:26:44 < catphish> i did, i'm clearly a fucking moron
2020-04-19T12:26:48 < dongs> nice
2020-04-19T12:26:54 < dongs> is there no reverse jack in same footprint?
2020-04-19T12:26:57 < catphish> no
2020-04-19T12:26:57 < dongs> wiht tab facing up?
2020-04-19T12:27:01 < dongs> rip.
2020-04-19T12:27:10 < catphish> i just checked :(
2020-04-19T12:27:30 < Thorn> Steffanx: by 2 streams you mean stereo or 2 stereo streams?
2020-04-19T12:27:43 < dongs> < Steffanx> It works amazingly well on my F722 thorn.
2020-04-19T12:27:44 < dongs> really?
2020-04-19T12:27:48 < catphish> the pin spacing is 2.54mm though, i reckon i can raise it off the board
2020-04-19T12:27:51 < Steffanx> 2 stereo and or mono streams
2020-04-19T12:28:06 < catphish> with some header sockets and some wire for the ground pins
2020-04-19T12:28:16 < catphish> it'll look beautiful :)
2020-04-19T12:28:18 < dongs> disgusting.
2020-04-19T12:28:18 < Steffanx> It doesn't NEED the SSE stuff, dongs 
2020-04-19T12:28:22 < dongs> i see.
2020-04-19T12:28:22 < Thorn> so, same cpu load for mono and stereo?
2020-04-19T12:28:49 < Steffanx> Didn't check that. 
2020-04-19T12:28:55 < Thorn> dongs: it autodetects sse, neon etc. and uses them when available
2020-04-19T12:29:32 < Thorn> ok then who said mp3 decoding runs on a 80486?
2020-04-19T12:29:38 < dongs> uh
2020-04-19T12:29:42 < dongs> mp3 decoding definitely runs on a 486.
2020-04-19T12:29:44 < dongs> i did it 
2020-04-19T12:29:46 < Spirit532> on a fast enough 486
2020-04-19T12:29:53 < dongs> using win3.1 or someshit and the fraunhofer mp3 player
2020-04-19T12:29:56 < dongs> in like 1995 or whatever
2020-04-19T12:29:59 < dongs> or maybe earleir
2020-04-19T12:30:06 < Steffanx> You're old
2020-04-19T12:30:07 < Thorn> that's much less MIPS than a 64MHz m4
2020-04-19T12:30:13 < dongs> really
2020-04-19T12:31:24 < Thorn> Steffanx: so the code has to run from TCM, if you run it from flash it's too slow on F7?
2020-04-19T12:31:50 < Steffanx> Oh no, the code just from flash for me
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2020-04-19T13:12:02 < Steffanx> oh this is @216MHz ofcourse, Thorn
2020-04-19T13:14:12 < Steffanx> The entire audio stuff by ST is a mess. One lib compiled with hardfpu, the other with softfp and what not. Good luck with that.
2020-04-19T13:15:02 < Steffanx> *hardfp
2020-04-19T13:20:05 < dongs> what the fuck is utoa()?
2020-04-19T13:21:08 < Thorn> unsigned to string
2020-04-19T13:21:15 < Steffanx> the unsigned version of itoa...
2020-04-19T13:21:44 < Thorn> like printf("%u")
2020-04-19T13:21:59 < Thorn> Steffanx: you mean x-cube-audio?
2020-04-19T13:22:13 < Steffanx> yeah
2020-04-19T13:22:14 < Thorn> or rather sprintf
2020-04-19T13:22:26 < Steffanx> x-cube-oidio
2020-04-19T13:22:42 < Thorn> I understand the mp3 library there is a demo, only supports 320kbps cbr?
2020-04-19T13:22:51 < dongs> http://bcas.tv/paste/results/EA2FfF87.html
2020-04-19T13:22:55 < dongs> holy fuck what is this shit
2020-04-19T13:23:23 < dongs> is this what gcc retards do
2020-04-19T13:23:26 < dongs> when their compiler sucks
2020-04-19T13:24:29 < Thorn> dongs you could do that with variadic templates if you had a modern compiler
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2020-04-19T13:50:47 < dongs> wtf
2020-04-19T13:50:51 < dongs> -DNIGGER="FAGGOT"
2020-04-19T13:51:02 < dongs> printf("wat: " NIGGER "\n"); this should work right??
2020-04-19T13:51:11 < dongs> or is that some other retarded gccism
2020-04-19T13:52:06 < kakimir> no
2020-04-19T13:52:34 < dongs> why not
2020-04-19T13:52:46 < dongs> printf("NIGGER" "FAGGOT" "\n"); works
2020-04-19T13:53:01 < Mangy_Dog> ...
2020-04-19T13:53:18 < kakimir> printf("wat: %s \n", NIGGER);
2020-04-19T13:53:21 < dongs> nono
2020-04-19T13:53:28 < dongs> thats a static string
2020-04-19T13:53:31 < dongs> why the hell would you %s it
2020-04-19T13:53:37 < kakimir> hmm
2020-04-19T13:53:44 < kakimir> maybe
2020-04-19T13:53:56 < dongs> multiple string literals for sure works (the last printf I posted)
2020-04-19T13:53:57 < zyp> yes, it works
2020-04-19T13:54:04 < dongs> it just doesnt work if I -DCRAP="foo"
2020-04-19T13:54:08 < kakimir> idk. I don't use standard functions that much
2020-04-19T13:54:14 < Thorn> dongs you need to quote your quotes
2020-04-19T13:54:14 < zyp> "dumb" "shit" is equivalent to "dumbshit"
2020-04-19T13:54:22 < dongs> yes, right
2020-04-19T13:54:23 < dongs> thorn wat
2020-04-19T13:54:32 < zyp> nah
2020-04-19T13:54:37 < dongs> i dont think i need to
2020-04-19T13:54:47 < Thorn> -DCRAP=\"foo\" or something like it
2020-04-19T13:54:53 < zyp> nah, just use something like #CRAP or whatever the syntax was
2020-04-19T13:55:01 < dongs> woot
2020-04-19T13:55:03 < dongs> what
2020-04-19T13:55:08 < dongs> christ. fucking opensores
2020-04-19T13:55:15 < Thorn> lol
2020-04-19T13:55:26 < zyp> this is not opensores, this is C preprocessor bullshit
2020-04-19T13:55:37 < dongs> so thorn is correct?
2020-04-19T13:55:39 < dongs> lemem try
2020-04-19T13:55:52 < zyp> nah
2020-04-19T13:56:06 < dongs> eyah it works
2020-04-19T13:56:07 < dongs> loool
2020-04-19T13:56:11 < zyp> -DCRAP=foo and printf("crap" #CRAP) should also work
2020-04-19T13:56:22 < dongs> i amnot changing original sores
2020-04-19T13:56:34 < dongs> is # = strinigfiy or wahtever
2020-04-19T13:56:41 < zyp> yeah
2020-04-19T13:56:54 < dongs> gotcha, will remember for when i will ever actually need this (never cuz i use proper IDE)
2020-04-19T13:57:09 < zyp> I don't think I've ever used it myself :p
2020-04-19T13:58:36 < Thorn> dongs also remember that you can't compare strings in #if, only numbers
2020-04-19T13:58:45 < Thorn> #if CRAP == "foo" doesn't work
2020-04-19T13:58:53 < dongs> yeah im sure
2020-04-19T14:00:57 < Thorn> practical usb attacks, T - 4 h https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0bMxAdq1adc
2020-04-19T14:01:13 < dongs> zyp is the practical usb attacker
2020-04-19T14:01:16 < dongs> speaking of zyp
2020-04-19T14:01:25 < dongs> what can i use to calcualte nfc antenna thingy
2020-04-19T14:01:30 < dongs> like nubmer of loops or hwatever
2020-04-19T14:01:44 < dongs> i have a weird-shaped board wehre its not gonna be a circle or rectangle
2020-04-19T14:01:53 < dongs> so I guess I need to wrap it around that area
2020-04-19T14:04:19 < Steffanx> will you live translate for us Thorn?
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2020-04-19T14:06:13 < Thorn> no. you might learn something dangerous
2020-04-19T14:07:44 < kakimir> Steff: do you do Wim Hof method?
2020-04-19T14:07:55 < zyp> dongs, uh, there's some math to it, but it's annoying to figure out, so when I made my nfc reader I just made a random spiral, hooked it up to the VNA and tuned it until it resonated at the right freq
2020-04-19T14:07:57 < kakimir> superhuman breathing technique
2020-04-19T14:08:43 < kakimir> shallow breath is for plebs
2020-04-19T14:08:45 < zyp> I think I did some calculations after I made it and found out it was outside some of the recommended numbers, but it works so whatever
2020-04-19T14:09:22 < zyp> and I guess if you have a weird shaped board, this approach is even more suitable :p
2020-04-19T14:09:59 < zyp> IIRC catphish worked through some of the math for his reader last year, so he probably remembers it better than me
2020-04-19T14:22:30 < Steffanx> Lol no kakimir
2020-04-19T14:26:30 < dongs> https://os.mbed.com/cookbook/Compiler-Error-L6218E
2020-04-19T14:26:31 < dongs> nice
2020-04-19T14:27:02 < dongs> The linker may display the errors "Undefined symbol typeinfo for Example" or "Undefined symbol vtable for Example."
2020-04-19T14:27:12 < dongs> i have *no* idea which C++ mess fucked this up tho.
2020-04-19T14:28:41 < kakimir> Steffanx: you could get doped up by just breathing
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2020-04-19T14:36:11 < Steffanx> The iceman is crazy kakimir 
2020-04-19T14:36:19 < Steffanx> He's not even finnish
2020-04-19T14:39:55 < kakimir> ikr
2020-04-19T14:40:01 < kakimir> or russian or anything like that
2020-04-19T14:46:27 < dongs> hmm
2020-04-19T14:47:14 < dongs> https://os.mbed.com/cookbook/Compiler-Error-L6218E so from this, i get this cannot find vtable shit if I instantiate a clas with virtual funcs which arent all fully implemented?
2020-04-19T14:53:09 < zyp> dongs, what's the actual error?
2020-04-19T14:53:20 < dongs> that is the error
2020-04-19T14:53:28 < zyp> can't find the vtable itself, or can't find an entry for the vtable?
2020-04-19T14:53:52 < dongs> Error: L6218E: Undefined symbol vtable for CShittyClass (referred from file.o).
2020-04-19T14:54:14 < zyp> is this a linker error?
2020-04-19T14:54:17 < dongs> yes
2020-04-19T14:54:17 < zyp> or compiler?
2020-04-19T14:54:19 < dongs> linker
2020-04-19T14:54:28 < dongs> compiler says nothing related to this at all
2020-04-19T14:54:48 < zyp> where's CShittyClass defined?
2020-04-19T14:54:54 < dongs> header
2020-04-19T14:54:57 < dongs> jesus fucking chirst
2020-04-19T14:55:00 < dongs> turning on -Wall in clang
2020-04-19T14:55:05 < dongs> i got like 500 warnings
2020-04-19T14:55:11 < zyp> sounds like your code is shit
2020-04-19T14:55:41 < zyp> anyway, it sounds like you're not linking a required file, how does the CShittyClass declaration look?
2020-04-19T14:55:46 < dongs> file.cpp(247): warning: declaration requires a global constructor [-Wglobal-constructors]
2020-04-19T14:55:56 < dongs> this is the only thing I can see related to isntantiationg that class
2020-04-19T14:56:05 < zyp> can you pastebin the file?
2020-04-19T14:56:59 < dongs> warning: 'Stream' has no out-of-line virtual method definitions; its vtable will be emitted in every translation unit [-Wweak-vtables]
2020-04-19T14:57:02 < dongs> ooh maybe its this
2020-04-19T14:57:09 < dongs> fucking i dont know
2020-04-19T14:57:38 < zyp> ah, so Stream is CShittyClass?
2020-04-19T14:57:42 < dongs> nope
2020-04-19T14:57:47 < dongs> CShityClass inherits? it
2020-04-19T14:57:51 < dongs> CShittyClass : Stream
2020-04-19T14:58:22 < zyp> fair enough, shouldn't be a problem then
2020-04-19T14:58:36 < zyp> anyway, can you pastebin CShittyClass=
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2020-04-19T15:01:55 < zyp> I'm guessing the problem is that CShittyClass has some member funcs defined in a .cpp file somewhere, so the vtable also gets emitted in that translation unit
2020-04-19T15:02:01 < zyp> and then you're not linking that
2020-04-19T15:02:24 < dongs> its keil so i have all the files togther
2020-04-19T15:02:29 < dongs> not possible to nto get linked
2020-04-19T15:02:42 < zyp> maybe you're missing the file completely then, idk
2020-04-19T15:02:48 < dongs> hmm
2020-04-19T15:02:55 < zyp> can't tell without actually seeing the file
2020-04-19T15:03:09 < dongs> ya it depends on too much shit i cant paste it all together
2020-04-19T15:03:34 < zyp> the class alone is fine
2020-04-19T15:03:42 < dongs> CShitClass is just
2020-04-19T15:03:45 < dongs> public:
2020-04-19T15:03:51 < dongs> virtual void blah();
2020-04-19T15:03:57 < dongs> virtual void blah2();
2020-04-19T15:04:00 < dongs> };
2020-04-19T15:04:07 < dongs> there's not a single non-vritual thign in it
2020-04-19T15:04:08 < zyp> and where are those defined?
2020-04-19T15:04:14 < dongs> in Stream i guess
2020-04-19T15:04:25 < zyp> no, that's not how it works
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2020-04-19T15:04:45 < zyp> you should have a void CShitClass::blah() { … } somewhere
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2020-04-19T15:04:59 < zyp> and that's where the vtable you're missing would be emitted too
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2020-04-19T15:06:30 < dongs> do i cehck sores for "CShitClass::blah" exactly?
2020-04-19T15:06:33 < dongs> cuz: i see nothing
2020-04-19T15:06:55 < zyp> then there's your problem, you're missing a file
2020-04-19T15:07:22 < dongs> it builds with gcc...
2020-04-19T15:07:28 < zyp> this is just like having a C header declaring void cocks(); and no .c file defining the actual function
2020-04-19T15:09:09 < zyp> which might build as long as you don't have anything trying to call cocks()
2020-04-19T15:09:38 < dongs> hmm i wonder if gcc defers that until its used
2020-04-19T15:09:48 < dongs> but keil tries to link for some reason
2020-04-19T15:09:53 < zyp> yeah
2020-04-19T15:10:06 < dongs> man zoom sure as fuck needs a lot of permissions
2020-04-19T15:10:06 < zyp> you might be missing shit but gcc manages to build because it's not used
2020-04-19T15:10:15 < dongs> zoom app on assdroid just asked me like 20 things it wants access to
2020-04-19T15:10:27 < zyp> are you zoombombing?
2020-04-19T15:10:43 < dongs> is that a thing now
2020-04-19T15:10:50 < zyp> apparently
2020-04-19T15:11:16 < zyp> I read that zoom meeting codes are short enough to brute force, so people have dicks showing up everywhere
2020-04-19T15:11:18 < dongs> A U.S. House Oversight Committee meeting was the most recent victim of a Zoom bombing attack, after the meeting was disrupted at least three different times by uninvited attendees.
2020-04-19T15:11:22 < dongs> nice
2020-04-19T15:11:55 < zyp> apparently that happened to a bunch of online classrooms too
2020-04-19T15:11:58 < dongs> o yeah 3 groups of 3 digits
2020-04-19T15:11:59 < dongs> for meeting id
2020-04-19T15:12:38 < dongs> hmmmmmm
2020-04-19T15:12:51 < dongs> i cant find anywhere the shit is implemented tho
2020-04-19T15:13:18 < dongs> would this be in cpp or h?
2020-04-19T15:13:20 < dongs> or either one
2020-04-19T15:13:24 < zyp> .cpp
2020-04-19T15:13:47 < zyp> there might be spaces around the ::
2020-04-19T15:14:44 < dongs> CFag :: dongs() ?
2020-04-19T15:15:04 < zyp> yeah, or newlines or whatever
2020-04-19T15:18:05 < dongs> fuckit, i just removed the cpp that was causing vtable shit and it works
2020-04-19T15:18:10 < dongs> since im not using it anyway... who cares
2020-04-19T15:18:57 < dongs> ya rest of the shit still builds
2020-04-19T15:20:23 < dongs> Program Size: Code=76676 RO-data=2048 RW-data=104 ZI-data=23000  
2020-04-19T15:20:24 < dongs> nice
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2020-04-19T15:26:15 < dongs> what wwas the shit that does BKPT 0xAB again
2020-04-19T15:26:20 < dongs> isnt that some opensores printf trash
2020-04-19T15:27:49 < dongs> well it works
2020-04-19T15:27:54 < dongs> for some definitions of works
2020-04-19T15:28:09 < dongs> it doesnt work withotu debugger attached
2020-04-19T15:28:12 < dongs> prolly cuz of BPKT shit
2020-04-19T15:32:08 < dongs> To remove low-level debugging functions, do one of the following: use the 'Compiler' Software Pack, Turn on Microlib, or add a retarget.c file.
2020-04-19T15:33:05 < dongs> im gonna call it retarded.c
2020-04-19T15:36:18 < dongs> nice
2020-04-19T15:36:26 < dongs> works from reset now
2020-04-19T15:36:48 < Steffanx> Sounds like semihosting 
2020-04-19T15:36:53 < dongs> yep, got rid of it
2020-04-19T15:36:57 < dongs> __asm(".global __use_no_semihosting\n\t");
2020-04-19T15:37:01 < dongs> this fixed it for armclang
2020-04-19T15:37:12 < dongs> and had to define one more useless thing _sys_command_string
2020-04-19T15:37:20 < dongs> too bad i cant use microlib with c++
2020-04-19T15:37:31 < dongs> microlib doesnt have any of those dumb shits
2020-04-19T15:44:41 < Steffanx> what awesome open sores project is this?
2020-04-19T15:47:22 < dongs> oh wow
2020-04-19T15:47:39 < dongs> uint16_t fail(int num); uint16_t fail(int32_t num);
2020-04-19T15:47:42 < dongs> how can taht even work
2020-04-19T15:47:48 < dongs> does C++ really make those 2 different
2020-04-19T15:48:36 < zyp> hmm, I'm actually not sure
2020-04-19T15:50:04 < zyp> yes
2020-04-19T15:50:04 < Steffanx> are you porting a tarduino lib?
2020-04-19T15:50:13 < dongs> of course, what else
2020-04-19T15:50:20 < zyp> they get mangled as _Z4faili vs _Z4faill
2020-04-19T15:50:25 < zyp> int vs long, I guess
2020-04-19T15:50:26 < Steffanx> because on tarduino int is 16 bit
2020-04-19T15:50:29 < dongs> not with armclang apaprently
2020-04-19T15:50:38 < dongs> Steffanx: nobody actually uses 16bit retarduino tho
2020-04-19T15:50:50 < Steffanx> but yet int is 16 bit
2020-04-19T15:50:53 < dongs> zyp, armclang calls its alreadty redeclared
2020-04-19T15:51:00 < dongs> Steffanx: yes but not when you build any 32bit retarduino
2020-04-19T15:51:12 < zyp> yeah, it's probably compiler dependant
2020-04-19T15:51:24 < zyp> signed 32b-bit is signed 32-bit
2020-04-19T15:51:51 < zyp> it's probably also compiler setting dependant
2020-04-19T15:52:10 < catphish> zyp dongs i used a calculator, can't remember if it was an ST thing, some magic online antenna designer
2020-04-19T15:52:30 < catphish> but there's also maths, and then when it's totally wrong, you just tune by trial and error
2020-04-19T15:53:36 < zyp> I figure it's probably useful to make an estimate first, put down something close to the estimate and then check with the VNA and tune
2020-04-19T15:53:46 < catphish> right
2020-04-19T15:54:57 < dongs> god damn
2020-04-19T15:55:06 < dongs> what kinda FUCKER does shit like
2020-04-19T15:55:19 < dongs> char faggot[randomint + randomshit + 1] = { 0, };
2020-04-19T15:55:24 < dongs> this is 100% gcc garbage
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2020-04-19T15:58:20 < dongs> the "proper" way is to not have that of course, but if you have to, declare then memset()
2020-04-19T15:58:36 < boddax_> who pls can check if its  correct or additional suggestion for this level shifter and viceversa https://i.ibb.co/M5wLB7r/BIDIR-SHIFT-LEVEL.jpg
2020-04-19T15:58:58 < catphish> i only write code in gcc
2020-04-19T15:59:09 < catphish> wouldn't want someone using my work with an inferior compiler
2020-04-19T16:01:49 < specing> +1
2020-04-19T16:01:58 < specing> But that's because only gcc implements Ada2012
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2020-04-19T16:08:12 < zyp> dongs, bullshit, that's standard C
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2020-04-19T16:09:26 < jpa-> yeah, that's standard C and silly, i just do = {}; to make my code gcc-fancy
2020-04-19T16:09:40 < zyp> {} is C++, not C
2020-04-19T16:09:52 < jpa-> works in gcc, good enough for me ;)
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2020-04-19T16:11:13 < dongs> zyp waht
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2020-04-19T16:11:39 < dongs> you cant fucking { 0, } a variable-length array just for the scope
2020-04-19T16:11:52 < jpa-> why not?
2020-04-19T16:11:53 < zyp> of course you can
2020-04-19T16:12:01 < dongs> in gcc yes, not in a proper compiler
2020-04-19T16:12:22 < jpa-> https://stackoverflow.com/questions/6634888/why-cant-i-initialize-a-variable-sized-array  hmm yeah
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2020-04-19T17:14:41 < karlp> c's {0} vs c++s {} is a fucking shitshow
2020-04-19T17:15:47 < englishman> wow I learned that variable size array thing back in high school
2020-04-19T17:16:05 < englishman> gcc ruins childhoods
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2020-04-19T17:16:28 < srk> also bash arrays "${args[@]}" :D
2020-04-19T17:20:06 < mawk> vla is C99 englishman 
2020-04-19T17:20:10 < mawk> but disappeared again in C11
2020-04-19T17:20:31 < mawk> made optional
2020-04-19T17:20:46 < mawk> you don't like bash tricks srk ?
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2020-04-19T17:22:48 < dongs> < jpa-> yeah, that's standard C and silly, i just do = {}; to make my code gcc-fancy
2020-04-19T17:22:59 < dongs> jpa, { 0, } memsets entire array to 0
2020-04-19T17:23:50 < dongs> it can't do that when the inputs are variable tho.
2020-04-19T17:24:15 < dongs> mawk: w2at?
2020-04-19T17:24:40 < mawk> char stuff[x]; is C99
2020-04-19T17:24:56 < dongs> yes, my compiler supports that
2020-04-19T17:25:08 < dongs> the problem is following it with char stuff[x] = { 0, ];
2020-04-19T17:25:14 < mawk> yes
2020-04-19T17:25:38 < mawk> if you like gcc extensions I regularly use char x[42] = {[0] = 1, [1 ... 10] = 5, 0};
2020-04-19T17:26:31 < dongs> lmao can it really do that
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2020-04-19T17:27:48 < dongs> c11 is newer than c99?
2020-04-19T17:27:57 < karlp> yeah, but in some ways worse.
2020-04-19T17:28:12 < karlp> not sure any of the new bits are good
2020-04-19T17:28:42 < dongs> char *dongs[] = { [0] = "lol", [1] = "dongs" }; wtf is this?
2020-04-19T17:28:59 < dongs> it specifies the order of strings?
2020-04-19T17:29:10 < dongs> wouldnt it be linear anyway?
2020-04-19T17:29:24 < dongs> char *dongs[] = { "lol", "dongs" };
2020-04-19T17:30:09 < logicp> lol dongs
2020-04-19T17:30:20 < qyx> hm a selective initializer?
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2020-04-19T17:30:33 < qyx> similar to a .foo = "lol, .bar = "dongs"
2020-04-19T17:30:35 < dongs> the example its used in, they're sequential
2020-04-19T17:30:37 < dongs> qyx, yes
2020-04-19T17:30:39 < dongs> but why?
2020-04-19T17:31:30 < karlp> does c++ let you do named initializers in structs yet? or is that still incompatible with c?
2020-04-19T17:31:33 < jpa-> http://paste.dy.fi/4HG/plain  i use it for vector tables
2020-04-19T17:31:52 < dongs> lol..
2020-04-19T17:31:55 < dongs> fucking GNUtards
2020-04-19T17:32:03 < specing> Why don't you people use Ada? It has been there for decades and it has been superior to C/C++ for decades and still is
2020-04-19T17:32:12 < dongs> because nobody fucking uses ADA
2020-04-19T17:32:21 < specing> I just can't understand it
2020-04-19T17:32:24 < specing> I use it
2020-04-19T17:32:41 < logicp> karlp - yeah you can do something like 
2020-04-19T17:32:44 < logicp> StructType my_struct{.ordered_property1 = 0, .ordered_property2 = 2};
2020-04-19T17:32:46 < jpa-> dongs: actually a single index  [0] =  etc. is standard C99, just [0..10] is GCC extension
2020-04-19T17:33:06 < emeb> specing: is there an ADA toolchain for ARM?
2020-04-19T17:33:11 < mawk> dongs: you can skip some, you can do the order you want, etc
2020-04-19T17:33:16 < specing> emeb: yes, GNAT GCC
2020-04-19T17:33:17 < karlp> logicp: in c++?
2020-04-19T17:33:38 < logicp> yeah.. but I mostly use 17, so I'm not sure when that became part of the language
2020-04-19T17:33:42 < mawk> char a[255] = {['Z'] = 42, ['A' ... 'F'] = 12};
2020-04-19T17:33:56 < karlp> logicp: yeah, pretty sure it wasn't even in c++11 :)
2020-04-19T17:34:12 < logicp> I'm hopelessly dependent then haha
2020-04-19T17:34:12 < mawk> even in 17 you can't do that
2020-04-19T17:34:17 < mawk> well you can, but only if you order it right
2020-04-19T17:34:19 < mawk> so it's useless
2020-04-19T17:34:27 < mawk> you can't skip fields or reorder fields
2020-04-19T17:34:30 < emeb> specing: Nice - so when you want to do embedded stuff I guess you have to build your own periph libs got accessing hardware?
2020-04-19T17:34:32 < logicp> yeah has to be ordered.. you can skip properties, though.. but you get warned
2020-04-19T17:34:46 < logicp> pretty sure you can skip some.. I just fixed some warnings
2020-04-19T17:34:53 < specing> emeb: there is Ada_Drivers_Library, but I build my own
2020-04-19T17:35:03 < mawk> yeah well if you ignore warnings I guess you can do what you want, call functions with no prototype and so on
2020-04-19T17:35:10 < logicp> hehe
2020-04-19T17:35:14 < zyp> karlp, it's being added in C++20
2020-04-19T17:37:34 < logicp> Speaking of skipping things, I'm trying to switch on a motor driver with an STM32F746ZG (Nucleo 144).. I'm just A) connecting the driver to 5V / GND ..... and B) using digital out GPIO to send a HIGH to the switch
2020-04-19T17:37:49 < logicp> Is there something else I need to do in order to get that driver to switch on?
2020-04-19T17:37:54 < logicp> it works simply enough with an arduino
2020-04-19T17:38:20 < dongs> matybe it actually needs 5V?
2020-04-19T17:38:24 < dongs> and fails with 3.3V from stm?
2020-04-19T17:38:30 < logicp> is that what's going on?
2020-04-19T17:38:37 < dongs> i can only guess
2020-04-19T17:38:50 < dongs> 0.7V of 5V = 3.5V
2020-04-19T17:38:55 < logicp> I was trying to figure out if I can configure the STM to work with 5V.. it has a 5V port and a 3.3V port
2020-04-19T17:39:10 < dongs> it wont
2020-04-19T17:39:27 < logicp> so to troubleshoot, I connected it to the 5V and GND of the arduino
2020-04-19T17:39:32 < logicp> but I guess that's still not good enough
2020-04-19T17:42:23 < dongs> does it need pwm or somehting? idk
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2020-04-19T17:46:17 < specing> logicp: grap a variable PSU, set it to 3.0 V and try to switch it that way
2020-04-19T17:46:26 < specing> grab*
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2020-04-19T17:48:01 < logicp> hmm interesting ideas
2020-04-19T17:48:43 < logicp> sorry for my noobness, but is the GPIO output itself operating at 3.3V, or is it mostly that I need to be concerned with the VCC port receiving power from a 5V source?
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2020-04-19T17:49:21 < logicp> I imagined the output port isn't contingent on that type of configuration, so long as the motor driver receives the right power
2020-04-19T17:49:58 < dongs> if youre stm vcc is 5V youve got other problems
2020-04-19T17:50:45 < logicp> ahh okay I guess it doesn't even need anything other than to be connected to a GPIO output, and a ground
2020-04-19T17:50:48 < specing> yeah, fried stm
2020-04-19T17:51:14 < logicp> cuz I just used the arduino and didn't connect the 5V, and it still works
2020-04-19T17:51:29 < specing> maybe it's active low?
2020-04-19T17:51:37 < rajkosto> "5V tolerant" on stm32 gpio doesnt mean the stm32 can ever push 5v out
2020-04-19T17:51:56 < rajkosto> it just means that if it happens to be connected to a 5v device on that gpio it wont fry the stm32
2020-04-19T17:52:15 < rajkosto> powering the stm32 with 5v on any power pin will, though
2020-04-19T17:52:32 < logicp> What's the distinction between it being 5V tolerant, and having a port labelled "5V" ?
2020-04-19T17:52:42 < rajkosto> what has a port labelled 5V
2020-04-19T17:52:43 < specing> logicp: check the datasheet
2020-04-19T17:52:57 < logicp> the STM32Nucleo 144 board (F746)
2020-04-19T17:53:05 < logicp> I see 3V3 and 5V next to it
2020-04-19T17:53:09 < logicp> gonna check the datasheet again now
2020-04-19T17:53:21 < specing> the 5V goes to a LDO that produces 3v3...
2020-04-19T17:53:25 < specing> most likely
2020-04-19T17:53:32 < rajkosto> yes its so you can power it off usb or similar
2020-04-19T17:53:58 < rajkosto> the stm32 chip itself still only ever gets 3.3v
2020-04-19T17:54:03 < rajkosto> from the ldo
2020-04-19T17:54:10 < specing> Honestly I wonder why the mcu can't operate at 5V vcc, it does have internal LDO for 3v3->1.8V core
2020-04-19T17:54:13 < dongs> if you look at F746 datsheet, the ports that can INPUT 5V are marked as FT
2020-04-19T17:54:24 < specing> How much more expensive would it be to make it run at 5V?
2020-04-19T17:54:25 < dongs> none of them can output 5V
2020-04-19T17:54:39 < rajkosto> specing, input range is tricky
2020-04-19T17:54:41 < dongs> specing: there's one part from silabs that actually runs on 5V
2020-04-19T17:54:47 < dongs> some cortrex m3
2020-04-19T17:54:49 < rajkosto> also any internal LDO that took 5V and output 1.8V would overheat fast
2020-04-19T17:54:58 < specing> dongs: native 5V or LDO 5V->1.8?
2020-04-19T17:55:10 < specing> rajkosto: not at a few mA
2020-04-19T17:55:22 < dongs> https://www.linleygroup.com/uploads/Precision32_white_paper.pdf this
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2020-04-19T17:57:26 < dongs> hmm wait no
2020-04-19T17:58:47 < logicp> okay I must have been confusing input and output
2020-04-19T17:58:55 < logicp> I'm trying to use this motor driver
2020-04-19T17:58:57 < logicp> https://www.st.com/resource/en/datasheet/l293d.pdf
2020-04-19T17:59:20 < logicp> it claims `LOGICAL "0" INPUT VOLTAGE UP TO 1.5 V`
2020-04-19T17:59:52 < logicp> but it must be my lack of understanding, that probably has nothing to do with it receiving adequate voltage to run the motor
2020-04-19T18:00:29 < dongs> minimum input is 2.3V
2020-04-19T18:00:30 -!- jsoft [~jsoft@unaffiliated/jsoft] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds]
2020-04-19T18:00:33 < dongs> so itll be fine with 3.3V io
2020-04-19T18:01:42 < dongs> ah it is precision32.
2020-04-19T18:02:03 < dongs> The MCU also provides six high-drive output pins that can each sink 300mA or source
2020-04-19T18:02:06 < dongs> 150mA—enough to directly drive power MOSFETs, high-power LEDs, buzzers, and
2020-04-19T18:02:08 < dongs> similar components. 
2020-04-19T18:06:29 < logicp> interesting.. these Silicon Labs boards aren't something I had seen when shopping around
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2020-04-19T18:11:35 < dongs> this is very old
2020-04-19T18:14:34 < kakimir> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9Ewx7SystJw airplane video of the day
2020-04-19T18:17:03 < kakimir> in photos it looks like a large fighter jet or so but really it's more like size of A320 or so
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2020-04-19T18:31:13 < jadew> https://www.dailysabah.com/world/europe/40-of-italians-want-to-leave-eu-and-eurozone-study-reveals
2020-04-19T18:32:06 < dongs> is that gonna be itexit?
2020-04-19T18:32:15 < jadew> it might
2020-04-19T18:32:56 < mawk> good thing
2020-04-19T18:33:27 < jadew> not sure what the eurozone is
2020-04-19T18:33:40 < jadew> but a law disconnect from the EU is not a bad thing
2020-04-19T18:33:50 < jadew> it's great to share an economical zone
2020-04-19T18:34:46 < mawk> eurozone is €€
2020-04-19T18:34:54 < mawk> GB was in the EU but out of the eurozone
2020-04-19T18:34:58 < jadew> ah, the euro then
2020-04-19T18:35:04 < jadew> right, we're not in the eurozone either
2020-04-19T18:35:05 < mawk> yes
2020-04-19T18:35:29 < mawk> with lira ?
2020-04-19T18:36:03 < jadew> we were supposed to switch to the euro, but gave up on the idea
2020-04-19T18:36:07 < jadew> Lion
2020-04-19T18:36:20 < jadew> Romanian Lion
2020-04-19T18:36:32 < mawk> leu
2020-04-19T18:36:49 < jadew> yeah
2020-04-19T18:36:51 < mawk> wow you stole the name from the dutch
2020-04-19T18:36:53 < mawk> leeuw
2020-04-19T18:37:01 < jadew> heh
2020-04-19T18:37:51 < jadew> it's from latin
2020-04-19T18:38:14 < mawk> yeah
2020-04-19T18:38:16 < mawk> leo
2020-04-19T18:38:27 < mawk> but then dutch
2020-04-19T18:38:53 < mawk> https://bnr.ro/Euro-Exhibition---Opening-Speech-by-Mugur-Isarescu,-NBR-Governor--6613.aspx
2020-04-19T18:39:38 < boddax> hopefully we will exit soon vote for the italexit
2020-04-19T18:40:06 < mawk> our best friend draghi will never let it do
2020-04-19T18:40:21 < jadew> not being in the EU sucks tho
2020-04-19T18:40:25 < jadew> you have to deal with customs
2020-04-19T18:40:32 < jadew> everything will get more expensive
2020-04-19T18:41:32 < mawk> that depends
2020-04-19T18:41:52 < mawk> on the kind of trade deals you have with the EU block, that depends on your commercial balance
2020-04-19T18:42:02 < mawk> you have to see on a case by case basis
2020-04-19T18:42:09 < mawk> dunno about the italy case tho
2020-04-19T18:42:30 < boddax> we will not buy nothing anymore from EU countries
2020-04-19T18:42:47 < mawk> or sell stuff to EU
2020-04-19T18:42:52 < mawk> that amounts to the same
2020-04-19T18:43:12 < mawk> or buy locally
2020-04-19T18:43:25 < boddax> what to buy from EU? almost nothing
2020-04-19T18:43:33 < kakimir> Italy is buddies with China now
2020-04-19T18:44:29 < kakimir> they got tired siphoning ECB money
2020-04-19T18:45:12 < mawk> my spider caught a cricket
2020-04-19T18:45:15 < mawk> I thought she was about to die
2020-04-19T18:45:21 < mawk> didn't eat for a few months
2020-04-19T18:45:43 < boddax> poison spoider
2020-04-19T18:45:48 < mawk> jumping spider
2020-04-19T18:46:11 < kakimir> idk where my spider is
2020-04-19T18:46:23 < mawk> https://i.pinimg.com/originals/53/c9/18/53c9188e1f9de9ddcb981f4d0e5bcda4.jpg
2020-04-19T18:46:40 < mawk> like this one
2020-04-19T18:47:02 < boddax> 4 eyes?
2020-04-19T18:47:10 < boddax> 4K eyes
2020-04-19T18:47:21 < mawk> there are more eyes on her back
2020-04-19T18:47:29 < mawk> purple fins is female, green is male
2020-04-19T18:52:00 < kakimir> https://drive.google.com/file/d/11vAZ5rwxn8V2L6o18ZMDj2WEsvaY6ucQ/view?usp=sharing I threw it out of my bed 2 times
2020-04-19T18:52:27 < boddax> you have spiders too in your bed?
2020-04-19T18:52:41 < mawk> green spider
2020-04-19T18:52:47 < mawk> looks venomous
2020-04-19T18:53:15 < kakimir> I mean sure
2020-04-19T18:53:21 < kakimir> why not
2020-04-19T18:53:43 < kakimir> it just walked on my neck and laptop screen while I tried to watch a series
2020-04-19T18:53:55 < mawk> lol
2020-04-19T18:54:32 < kakimir> it didn't behave
2020-04-19T18:54:45 < mawk> you killed it ???
2020-04-19T18:55:40 < kakimir> no
2020-04-19T18:55:43 < kakimir> I threw him out
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2020-04-19T18:55:46 < kakimir> of my bed
2020-04-19T18:56:08 < kakimir> not even to outdoors just to floor
2020-04-19T18:56:30 < boddax> white color kakimir?
2020-04-19T18:57:07 < boddax> https://www.affaritaliani.it/static/upl2017/ragn/ragno-violino-loxosceles-rufescens10.jpg
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2020-04-19T19:02:02 < kakimir> green boddax
2020-04-19T19:02:23 < kakimir> is it assassin sent by putin?
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2020-04-19T19:05:31 < kakimir> that white one?
2020-04-19T19:05:38 < kakimir> it looks like it works for KGB
2020-04-19T19:07:16 < boddax> lol kakimir sent by jan ping pong
2020-04-19T19:16:10 < kakimir> that green thing is hunter spider
2020-04-19T19:16:17 < kakimir> it runs and jumps and bites
2020-04-19T19:16:26 < kakimir> doesn't do wens
2020-04-19T19:16:28 < kakimir> webs
2020-04-19T19:25:16 < Steffanx> Such money heist netflixing kakimir
2020-04-19T19:25:29 < Steffanx> Do you at least watch it in spanish (with subs perhaps?)
2020-04-19T19:25:51 < Steffanx> oh its not netflix.
2020-04-19T19:25:57 < kakimir> it is
2020-04-19T19:26:18 < kakimir> I doubt there is an option to watch it in spanish unless in spain?
2020-04-19T19:26:21 < kakimir> idk
2020-04-19T19:26:31 < Steffanx> what language they speak for you?
2020-04-19T19:27:42 < kakimir> english
2020-04-19T19:28:18 < Steffanx> ohno, lipsync one of the worst invention by humans
2020-04-19T19:29:26 < kakimir> it's not even lipsync
2020-04-19T19:29:36 < kakimir> it's just dub
2020-04-19T19:29:50 < Steffanx> Spanish it is for me :P
2020-04-19T19:29:58 < Steffanx> With subs in english
2020-04-19T19:31:51 < dongs> https://www.theregister.co.uk/2020/04/17/intelsat_satellite_fixed/
2020-04-19T19:31:51 < dongs> nice
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2020-04-19T19:42:46 < dongs> https://spaceflightnow.com/2020/02/26/two-commercial-satellites-link-up-in-space-for-first-time/ Astronauts flying on the space shuttle Endeavour installed a new upper stage on the Intelsat 603 satellite in 1992. Over the course of three spacewalks, Endeavour’s crew struggled to capture the cylinder-shaped communications satellite, which was stranded in an unusable orbit by a launch failure.
2020-04-19T19:42:52 < dongs> oh wow cool
2020-04-19T19:42:54 < dongs> i didnt know that
2020-04-19T19:48:34 < englishman> will they use it to find mh370?
2020-04-19T20:03:01 < dongs> they havent found taht yet?
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2020-04-19T20:31:47 < jpa-> first case of a robot spaceship inserting its probe into somebody's rear end
2020-04-19T20:32:05 < jpa-> ( https://mk0spaceflightnoa02a.kinstacdn.com/wp-content/uploads/2020/02/Docking_2-25-2020-1.gif )
2020-04-19T20:35:32 < kakimir> no porn on this channel jpa-
2020-04-19T20:35:35 < Steffanx> Hmm, what will you do to top that jpa-?
2020-04-19T20:36:08 < Steffanx> What putting a probe in someone's rear end is a medical procedure kakimir
2020-04-19T20:36:13 < Steffanx> What were you thinking about?
2020-04-19T20:36:16 < jpa-> Steffanx: i've been developing a similar probe-robot to be sent to netherlands
2020-04-19T20:36:27 < Steffanx> Before or after it got flooded?
2020-04-19T20:36:47 < kakimir> 5G tag Steffanx?
2020-04-19T20:38:39 < Steffanx> nah, 5G is bad. Burn the 5G antennas/towers.
2020-04-19T20:40:00 < kakimir> no you
2020-04-19T20:40:30 < Steffanx> Hows the pita kakimir?
2020-04-19T20:40:45 < kakimir> no pita
2020-04-19T20:40:56 < kakimir> has not been since I traumatized you
2020-04-19T20:43:00 < Steffanx> ok kakiback
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2020-04-19T20:44:22 -!- kakipita is now known as kaki9000
2020-04-19T20:45:35 < kaki9000> I'm sorry Steff, I'm afraid I can't do that
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2020-04-19T20:53:01 < Steffanx> flykimir then?
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2020-04-19T22:13:58 < boddax> updated https://i.ibb.co/zbv5zbL/BIDIR-SHIFT-LEVEL.jpg
2020-04-19T22:14:35 < Thorn> why ttl
2020-04-19T22:15:00 < kaki9000> LS?
2020-04-19T22:15:07 < boddax> lv
2020-04-19T22:15:10 < boddax> lvc
2020-04-19T22:16:10 < kaki9000> it has fast edges
2020-04-19T22:16:52 < boddax> need mod ..selectable by 8 3.3v or 5v
2020-04-19T22:20:31 < Thorn> see dual supply translators here http://www.ti.com/lit/ml/scyb018h/scyb018h.pdf
2020-04-19T22:20:54 < Thorn> that's what they use in j-link and stuff
2020-04-19T22:45:53 < boddax> yes 2 SN74LVC16T245 seems much better
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2020-04-19T23:04:15 < dongs> holy shit i got the stuff to work
2020-04-19T23:04:22 < dongs> so final problem was there was not enough heap
2020-04-19T23:04:47 < dongs> gcc linker does some crap where it does heap = ram - stack - statics/zi
2020-04-19T23:04:50 < kaki9000> embedded 101
2020-04-19T23:04:51 < dongs> idk hwo to do that in keil tho
2020-04-19T23:05:27 < kaki9000> you mean linker script?
2020-04-19T23:06:17 < Thorn> I've been looking at a commercial project today, it runs on an f072 with 16KB RAM. they're using std::deque and more
2020-04-19T23:06:26 < dongs> nice
2020-04-19T23:06:49 < Thorn> there is a hard to reproduce hang in there, they wanted me to find it because the original programmer is gone
2020-04-19T23:07:00 < qyx> :D
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2020-04-19T23:07:48 < Thorn> a couple of hours ago they wrote to me that he's back with a fix but somehow I'm sure I'm going to have to dig into that swamp sooner or later
2020-04-19T23:08:22 < kaki9000> quantum coder
2020-04-19T23:08:29 < kaki9000> he might be available
2020-04-19T23:08:38 < Thorn> there's simply too much room for bugs there for that hang to be the only one
2020-04-19T23:08:47 < Steffanx> He should start working for ST. And get more shit in to the HAL
2020-04-19T23:10:00 < Thorn> (it's using std:: containers without any custom allocators of course)
2020-04-19T23:19:56 < Thorn> also the usb master class is extremely informative. the guy works @ google and does kernel security research. I learned more about the lunix usb subsystem and all sorts of hacking tools than I ever wanted to know. (the intro to usb in the beginning was pretty pathetic as always but it's expected coming from a programmer)
2020-04-19T23:20:11 < Thorn> slides, links etc. are in English btw https://github.com/xairy/hardware-village/tree/master/usb
2020-04-19T23:21:11 < Thorn> LINKS.md is a goldmine
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--- Day changed Mon Apr 20 2020
2020-04-20T00:22:03 < aandrew> hm, I wonder if any of the ST h-bridge eval boards for their motor controllers does 1.5kW
2020-04-20T00:22:24 < aandrew> not BLDC, just straight PMDC
2020-04-20T00:25:58 < sync> hmm unlikely
2020-04-20T00:26:12 < sync> although you can just slap an h bridge down and be done
2020-04-20T00:26:52 < aandrew> yeah, need to be careful with snubbering and shoot through when you start talking more serious power though
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2020-04-20T00:44:59 < kaki9000> movie recommds?
2020-04-20T00:46:43 < englishman> heavy metal (1981)
2020-04-20T00:47:43 < Thorn> kaki9000 https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLfxIzUhV9dxI5joQq-zUhmBrRIRUsKADD
2020-04-20T00:48:34 < kaki9000> hmm..
2020-04-20T00:49:19 < kaki9000> let's exclude movies that look like computer games
2020-04-20T00:51:29 < kaki9000> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OxVkqgbjraU musics
2020-04-20T00:52:39 < Thorn> musics https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PL3817D41C7D841E23
2020-04-20T00:54:19 < kaki9000> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T6OZrUbLJ1M how about this
2020-04-20T00:56:28 < qyx> any idea for TDR on STM32? except G4 hires timer + sample and hold amp
2020-04-20T01:12:00 < zyp> TDR for what?
2020-04-20T01:14:32 < Thorn> attn zyp a possibly interesting usb core https://github.com/smunaut/ice40-playground/tree/master/cores/usb https://github.com/smunaut/ice40-playground/blob/master/cores/usb/doc/architecture.md
2020-04-20T01:15:28 < zyp> looking
2020-04-20T01:17:46 < qyx> zyp: long cable deformation measurement
2020-04-20T01:20:13 < jadew> https://www.theregister.co.uk/2020/04/17/iran_coronavirus_detector/
2020-04-20T01:20:37 < jadew> https://twitter.com/Shayan86/status/1250453534342033413
2020-04-20T01:22:48 < kaki9000> Iran made domestic fighter jet once
2020-04-20T01:22:58 < zyp> Thorn, the microcode stuff looks a bit interesting
2020-04-20T01:23:16 < kaki9000> in promotional video they showed how plane operators checked tyre pressure
2020-04-20T01:24:22 < kaki9000> so internet did the math by the tyre pressure and the conclusion was it was not an actual plane but just a model they rolled along the taxiway
2020-04-20T01:24:45 < jadew> heh
2020-04-20T01:25:00 < kaki9000> you know how kingdom fell in Iran? Do you know the story?
2020-04-20T01:25:27 < jadew> I don't, no
2020-04-20T01:25:30 < Thorn> CIA funded the ayatollah
2020-04-20T01:25:49 < kaki9000> the boss threw so big party for world leaders that he lost the crown
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2020-04-20T01:26:49 < kaki9000> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6aF0UqC0J48
2020-04-20T01:26:55 < kaki9000> here is the story
2020-04-20T01:28:39 < kaki9000> in addition to spending like 1billion dollars he threw some university students in jail months before the party
2020-04-20T01:29:06 < kaki9000> stuff like that
2020-04-20T01:30:56 < zyp> Thorn, at the moment, my stuff have the equivalent of the two LL blocks, but in addition to what that stuff does, I've also got the serializer/deserializer in them, along with a FIFO for clock domain crossing, so only those blocks needs to be in the 48 MHz clock domain
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2020-04-20T01:36:17 < zyp> when I add support for HS PHYs later, the PHY interface block will run at 60 MHz instead, so it makes sense to decouple the clocks from the start
2020-04-20T01:48:23 < Laurenceb> There is no contagion. The theory of transmissible viruses has been disproven so many times now, it’s ludicrous. You can’t catch one. They’re not the cause of disease. 
2020-04-20T01:48:59 < Steffanx> At least fix the quotes in your quotes
2020-04-20T01:49:09 < Laurenceb> lol
2020-04-20T01:50:15 < Laurenceb> >when ur shitpost is itself shit
2020-04-20T01:55:06 < BrainDamage> Laurenceb: https://nitter.net/ABC/status/1250986608842674177
2020-04-20T01:55:40 < Laurenceb> I read the t as g
2020-04-20T01:55:43 < Laurenceb> too much internets
2020-04-20T01:57:42 < Laurenceb> lool epin comments
2020-04-20T01:58:10 < Laurenceb> >I'm gunna punch the queen to beat covid-19
2020-04-20T02:00:03 < kaki9000> you have mask Laurenceb?
2020-04-20T02:00:23 < zyp> uh, is there anywhere to adjust the latency of FT231X?
2020-04-20T02:02:01 < Laurenceb> kaki9008: yeah I got about 20, literally minutes before ebay b& them
2020-04-20T02:02:14 < zyp> I replaced the BMP I've been using as a serial adapter with a FT231X and suddenly everything is a lot slower, which I believe is because the traffic consists of a lot of small back and forths while the ftdi sits around waiting for more data
2020-04-20T02:04:43 < kaki9000> Laurenceb: do you even sell them for 30£ a pop?
2020-04-20T02:04:55 < Laurenceb> maybe I should lol
2020-04-20T02:05:03 < kaki9000> such lurence
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2020-04-20T02:12:59 < zyp> heh, I ran a couple of timed tests for comparison
2020-04-20T02:13:38 < zyp> running a transfer with the FT231X takes about 66 seconds
2020-04-20T02:13:50 < zyp> running the same transfer through the BMP instead takes about 7 seconds
2020-04-20T02:16:26 < kaki9000> BMP?
2020-04-20T02:16:56 < zyp> blackmagic probe, in addition to JTAG/SWD it also has a USB-UART
2020-04-20T02:19:26 < kaki9000> ECP5 would make a beast of probe
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2020-04-20T02:20:16 < zyp> okay, increasing baudrate from 115.2k to 3M further reduces time to 3.6s
2020-04-20T02:21:10 < zyp> but meh, I wanted to free up the BMP for other stuff
2020-04-20T02:22:17 < zyp> almost tempted to instance a valentyusb core next to my own to use that for wishbone bridge instead of uart
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2020-04-20T03:08:41 < kakinull> sonic the hedgehog: watch the movie or not?
2020-04-20T03:12:56 < karlp> zyp: yeah, ftdi driver is gross as shit
2020-04-20T03:13:05 < karlp> constant usb traffic polling
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2020-04-20T03:13:29 < karlp> with a cp210x I could use a usb led trigger as traffic, with ftdi, it just blinks all the time
2020-04-20T03:14:00 < zyp> karlp, feels like it's the opposite way around, ftdi sits around just waiting instead of doing useful stuff
2020-04-20T03:14:46  * karlp shrugs, seemed like lots of usb back and forth to just check if it had anything to do?
2020-04-20T03:34:07 < kakinull> what you use the led for?
2020-04-20T03:34:30 < kakinull> are you saying you use the led as some sort of interrupt or so?
2020-04-20T03:34:38 < kakinull> or flow control
2020-04-20T03:49:55 < BrainDamage> https://old.reddit.com/r/FreeEBOOKS/comments/g34xi5/408_free_ebooks_from_springer/
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2020-04-20T04:34:45 < kakinull> I'm looking at the usb3 to pci-e bus adapter board gerbers
2020-04-20T04:34:57 < kakinull> I think it should probs have a ground layer
2020-04-20T04:35:08 < kakinull> it just has pairs
2020-04-20T04:35:18 < kakinull> no ground layer visible
2020-04-20T04:38:34 < kakinull> https://github.com/enjoy-digital/usb3_pipe/blob/master/doc/breakout_board_gerbers.zip if anyone bothers to check
2020-04-20T04:41:18 < kakinull> he forgot the fill?
2020-04-20T04:41:43 < antto> kakinull have you seen what time it is?
2020-04-20T04:42:04 < antto> i ain't checkin no zip
2020-04-20T04:42:44 < kakinull> good good
2020-04-20T04:43:33 < antto> the kakimachine don't sleep?
2020-04-20T05:18:49 < kakinull> kaki9000 is always watching
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2020-04-20T08:43:32 < azonenberg> o/
2020-04-20T09:00:46 < upgrdman> o/
2020-04-20T09:04:59 < azonenberg> So i'm trying to debug some SPI issues on stm32f031
2020-04-20T09:05:20 < upgrdman> k
2020-04-20T09:05:21 < azonenberg> Using raw SFR writes, not the ST libraries, since i'm trying to do this project with a fully open toolchain
2020-04-20T09:05:55 < azonenberg> i'm trying to send a single byte of data in 8-bit mode and i see 16 edges on SCK 
2020-04-20T09:06:33 < azonenberg> gdb confirms SPI1.CR2 is 0x700 which selects 8-bit mode
2020-04-20T09:06:35 < azonenberg> Soooo i'm confused
2020-04-20T09:06:42 < upgrdman> hmm
2020-04-20T09:06:51 < upgrdman> here is my old aweful f0 spi code: https://github.com/farrellf/Balancing_Robot_Firmware/blob/master/f0lib/f0lib_spi.c?ts=4
2020-04-20T09:06:54 < azonenberg> I suspect what's happening is that if i access DR via a 16 or 32 bit write
2020-04-20T09:06:59 < azonenberg> it treats that as multiple transfers
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2020-04-20T09:07:24 < upgrdman> *(volatile uint8_t*) spi_dr = byte;				// send one byte of data
2020-04-20T09:07:27 < azonenberg> So i think, despite the datasheet in 28.9.4 saying "Data is always right aligned. Unused bits are ignored when writing to the register"
2020-04-20T09:07:36 < azonenberg> that if you do a 16-bit write it actually sends two 8-bit transfers back to back
2020-04-20T09:08:24 < upgrdman> try "*(volatile uint8_t*)" before your DR. i think i had that problem too.
2020-04-20T09:09:23 < azonenberg> well it's a struct, so i have to rearrange the headers
2020-04-20T09:09:27 < azonenberg> but doing that now
2020-04-20T09:09:36 < upgrdman> k
2020-04-20T09:09:38 < azonenberg> The way i have things is, i declare volatile spi_t SPI1;
2020-04-20T09:09:48 < azonenberg> with a section attribute putting it in .spi1
2020-04-20T09:09:55 < azonenberg> then i use a linker script to pack that into the right APB address
2020-04-20T09:10:00 < azonenberg> it's a much cleaner approach than the usual, i think
2020-04-20T09:10:57 < azonenberg> Yeah that fixed it. now to uncomment the rest of my app and see how this works
2020-04-20T09:11:22 < azonenberg> i'm annoyed, if they documented that this was a 16-bit reg that could be used to write two 8-bit values in one instruction, that would be great
2020-04-20T09:11:33 < azonenberg> like, the hardware behavior is fine
2020-04-20T09:11:40 < azonenberg> as long as the datasheet describes the actual behavior :p
2020-04-20T09:12:12 < upgrdman> ya, aint life a bitch?
2020-04-20T09:13:20  * azonenberg adds comment to header
2020-04-20T09:13:24 < azonenberg> well, i guess i've joined the club with stm32
2020-04-20T09:13:53 < azonenberg> my rule is you don't know a platform well until you've found at least one factual error (i.e. not just grammar/spelling typos) in the datasheet
2020-04-20T09:14:10 < upgrdman> enjoy your stay. there's donuts on the table over there
2020-04-20T09:14:16 < azonenberg> Lol
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2020-04-20T09:44:11 < dongs> hello astonerberg
2020-04-20T09:44:24 < dongs> < azonenberg> i'm trying to send a single byte of data in 8-bit mode and i see 16 edges on SCK
2020-04-20T09:44:31 < dongs> you need to do an actual 8 bit write
2020-04-20T09:44:33 < dongs> on F0
2020-04-20T09:44:47 < dongs> < upgrdman> try "*(volatile uint8_t*)" before your DR. i think i had that problem too.
2020-04-20T09:44:50 < dongs> yeah what he said.,
2020-04-20T09:47:27 < azonenberg> dongs: yeah, my point is that the datasheet is wrong
2020-04-20T09:47:31 < azonenberg> saying extra bits are ignored
2020-04-20T09:47:34 < dongs> its not
2020-04-20T09:47:53 < azonenberg> the datasheet says DR is a 16-bit register
2020-04-20T09:48:01 < azonenberg> Nowhere does it say access size is significant
2020-04-20T09:48:09 < azonenberg> it even explicitly says extra bits are ignored
2020-04-20T09:48:26 < azonenberg> all they'd have to do was say access size matters and i'd be fine with it
2020-04-20T09:49:47 < upgrdman> it's a good thing EE'ing isn't easy ;) if it was, we'd be making minimum wage like the people at mcdonalds.
2020-04-20T09:49:56 < azonenberg> Lol
2020-04-20T09:50:26 < azonenberg> i'm fine with work that requires effort to properly engineer a design, what i'm not fine with is easily avoided effort due to poor design or docs :p
2020-04-20T09:50:43 < azonenberg> So what i'm fighting now is a DAC that isn't DAC-ing
2020-04-20T09:50:48 < dongs> > access size performed on the FIFO data registers (8-bit or 16-bit)
2020-04-20T09:50:55 < azonenberg> It's not oscillating, at least...
2020-04-20T09:50:57 < dongs> i think thats pretty clear
2020-04-20T09:51:00 < azonenberg> dongs: where is that?
2020-04-20T09:51:06 < dongs> the same RM you're reading
2020-04-20T09:51:11 < dongs> under data transmission adn reception
2020-04-20T09:51:19 < dongs> i dont have f031 rm but i think F030 is same
2020-04-20T09:51:25 < dongs> its all the newer SPI block
2020-04-20T09:51:30 < dongs> that has fifo
2020-04-20T09:51:43 < azonenberg> ok yeah i see that
2020-04-20T09:51:52 < azonenberg> I still think the "extra bits are ignored" text is incorrect
2020-04-20T09:52:27 < dongs> in spi block diagram you can see all reads/writes go throguh rx/tx fifo
2020-04-20T09:52:36 < dongs> so the width of write/read apply there
2020-04-20T09:52:49 < azonenberg> see i would naturally expect a 16-bit write is 8 dontcare bits and 8 data bits
2020-04-20T09:52:59 < azonenberg> i.e. the other 8 never go anywhere
2020-04-20T09:53:15 < azonenberg> because the header would define DR as 16 bits wide so access would natively do that
2020-04-20T09:53:30 < azonenberg> then maybe have a "multi byte write" bit somewhere you can set to get the current behavior instead
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2020-04-20T09:54:47 < dongs> the width is prolly setup for DMA as well
2020-04-20T09:54:57 < dongs> when you do DMA_DEST_SIZE of 8 bytes vs 16
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2020-04-20T09:55:18 < dongs> anyway it definitely works,
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2020-04-20T10:13:49 < upgrdman> dongs, are japs wearing face masks now?
2020-04-20T10:14:10 < upgrdman> china is still doing masks 95% of the time... gets annoying after a while
2020-04-20T10:20:05  * azonenberg went shopping in a 3M 6900 the other day
2020-04-20T10:20:33 < azonenberg> overkill? maybe. but it's what i had handy
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2020-04-20T11:51:59 < Thorn> speaking of SPI, why does F0 have the FRXTH flag but e.g. L0 doesn't?
2020-04-20T11:54:02 < Thorn> is it because F0 has a fifo?
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2020-04-20T12:37:25 < karlp> my local notes says l0 has spi-v1-with-frf but f0 has spi-v2
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2020-04-20T12:37:57 < karlp> so yeah, "because it has a fifo" :)
2020-04-20T12:39:14 < karlp> kakinull: with cp210x, you can use a linux usb activity trigger as ~equivalent to a serial traffic activity led, with ft23x, you can't
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2020-04-20T12:43:27 < karlp> BrainDamage: heh, got fundamentals of power electronics from that springer link.  800 page ebook. no index :)
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2020-04-20T13:21:58 < dongs> stoned
2020-04-20T13:30:09 < boddax> Kamir if your green spider is this then dangeros https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/1/12/Green_Lynx_Spider7014.jpg/800px-Green_Lynx_Spider7014.jpg
2020-04-20T13:31:53 < Steffanx> Are there even dangerous spiders in finland?
2020-04-20T13:33:03 < boddax> Every where still poisoning spiders
2020-04-20T13:34:09 < boddax> Kakamir not Lamir
2020-04-20T13:43:35 < mawk> she doesn't bite if you don't bother her anyway
2020-04-20T13:43:40 < mawk> unless she's a mean spider
2020-04-20T13:43:46 < mawk> we should ask trump which spiders are mean
2020-04-20T13:47:21 < boddax> If she go in your socks ..inevitable bite
2020-04-20T13:48:33 < boddax> Donald mc trump you mean?
2020-04-20T13:53:54 < mawk> donald J trump please
2020-04-20T13:56:22 < mawk> there's an index in the book karlp 
2020-04-20T13:57:58 < karlp> well duh, it's a print pdf
2020-04-20T13:58:13 < Steffanx> There are no dangerous spiders in dutchland boddax
2020-04-20T13:58:25 < Steffanx> Except for those "pets" 
2020-04-20T13:58:28 < karlp> but pdfs without indices are like..... I dunno, I started the sentence without a good analagy
2020-04-20T13:58:32 < karlp> analogy
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2020-04-20T13:58:52 < mawk> like mine Steffanx ???
2020-04-20T13:59:04 < Steffanx> perhaps
2020-04-20T14:04:06 < mawk> nooo
2020-04-20T14:04:08 < mawk> mine is harmless
2020-04-20T14:04:11 < mawk> she's a good spider
2020-04-20T14:04:21 < mawk> she never bit me even when I bother her
2020-04-20T14:04:43 < mawk> she only does MMA wrestling with crickets
2020-04-20T14:05:03 < mawk> jumping on them, turning around, biting their legs off
2020-04-20T14:08:31 < kaki9000> does he know you?
2020-04-20T14:08:38 < kaki9000> like does he know that you are friend?
2020-04-20T14:08:53 < kaki9000> or the master of spiders?
2020-04-20T14:09:40 < kaki9000> or is it just it's native behavior to not pick a fight with big mammals 
2020-04-20T14:11:39 < kaki9000> *she
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2020-04-20T14:31:47 < mawk> I don't know
2020-04-20T14:31:52 < mawk> I read it's the most intelligent spider species
2020-04-20T14:32:09 < mawk> she waves at me when she sees me, but I don't know if she's saying "hi" or rather "I will kill you if you come close'
2020-04-20T14:32:20 < mawk> she doesn't wave at crickets, just eat them
2020-04-20T14:32:45 < mawk> probably I'm not even alive to her, just like a big rock
2020-04-20T14:32:50 < mawk> too big to comprehend
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2020-04-20T14:41:53 < kakinull> it's using it's leg to sensing I think
2020-04-20T14:43:39 < Thorn> why noone pirated the x chapters yet. it's been almost 3 months since the release
2020-04-20T14:43:59 < mawk> what's that
2020-04-20T14:44:11 < mawk> a
2020-04-20T14:45:06 < BrainDamage> karlp: it lacks TOC ?
2020-04-20T14:46:11 < BrainDamage> I think you can auto-generate TOC with some programs, like calibre
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2020-04-20T15:24:26 < kakinull> can you have copper fills that are not visible in gerbers?
2020-04-20T15:24:55 < jadew> if they're not visible, why would you have them?
2020-04-20T15:25:27 < kakinull> idk
2020-04-20T15:25:49 < Thorn> to plant a bomb for the boss that's about to fire you, like #define true false etc.
2020-04-20T15:26:59 < strata> kakiloroquine
2020-04-20T15:27:15 < strata> saving lives every day
2020-04-20T15:31:22 < kakinull> luckily it's made in finland
2020-04-20T15:41:00 < kakinull> and france
2020-04-20T15:42:03 < mawk> useless med
2020-04-20T15:42:16 < kakinull> probs
2020-04-20T15:42:25 < kakinull> memepills
2020-04-20T15:43:13 < mawk> I have a site where I can buy it
2020-04-20T15:43:17 < mawk> 100% safz
2020-04-20T15:43:31 < mawk> I used to buy antidepressants for a girl there
2020-04-20T15:43:50 < mawk> they put it in restricted sales, they're good citizens
2020-04-20T15:43:53 < mawk> 30 pills per person
2020-04-20T15:44:03 < mawk> perfect way to die of heart attack 
2020-04-20T15:44:40 -!- fenugrec [~fenugrec@97.107.220.18] has joined ##stm32
2020-04-20T15:47:33 < Cracki> I am interested in a site where I can buy medicine
2020-04-20T15:48:08 < Cracki> drug dealers are better doctors because they profit when the stuff helps you. doctors don't profit. they'll just prescribe whatever.
2020-04-20T15:49:51 < strata> when you buy from doctors, you're buying from drug dealers. the doctors are just the street level soldiers that push the drugs.
2020-04-20T15:50:37 < Cracki> around here nobody buys from doctors. doctors just give you permission to buy something. any kickbacks they get, they get from pharma for selling specific stuff.
2020-04-20T15:50:49 < englishman> mawk where can i get mildronats
2020-04-20T15:51:24 < mawk> why do you want thar
2020-04-20T15:51:28 < mawk> that
2020-04-20T15:51:46 < englishman> gatekeeping now?
2020-04-20T15:51:49 < mawk> lol
2020-04-20T15:51:51 < mawk> no
2020-04-20T15:51:53 < mawk> but it's a weird med
2020-04-20T15:51:59 < mawk> don't kill yourself
2020-04-20T15:52:41 < englishman> https://i.imgur.com/OVSI5dO.jpg
2020-04-20T15:53:58 < Mangy_Dog> little fluff
2020-04-20T15:54:29 < Streaker> That's a weird looking dog
2020-04-20T15:56:34 < Thorn> stm32wl will support bpsk in sub-ghz
2020-04-20T15:56:46 < Thorn> attn qyx 
2020-04-20T15:57:20 < englishman> oh nice
2020-04-20T15:57:25 < englishman> larent is also a fan
2020-04-20T15:58:26 < englishman> funny since the older semtech stuff doesnt have it
2020-04-20T16:00:44 < Thorn> they're also releasing H7-A and B
2020-04-20T16:01:00 < Thorn> up to 512MHz + dsp accelerators
2020-04-20T16:10:23 < Thorn> and faster mp1
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2020-04-20T16:22:54 < Laurenceb> wait wut
2020-04-20T16:23:06 < Laurenceb> st have a wireless uc thats actually useful?
2020-04-20T16:23:16 < Laurenceb> ><Thorn> stm32wl will support bpsk in sub-ghz
2020-04-20T16:23:20 < mawk> they already had one
2020-04-20T16:23:26 < mawk> you don't trust st to be always useful ??
2020-04-20T16:23:35 < Laurenceb> with or without closed sores nasty libs tho?
2020-04-20T16:23:40 < mawk> don't ask
2020-04-20T16:23:52 < Laurenceb> mawk: the previous wireless stuff was a disaster zone and got dropped
2020-04-20T16:24:04 < mawk> stm32wb right
2020-04-20T16:24:07 < Thorn> they said "open radio" in the webinar
2020-04-20T16:24:08 < Laurenceb> yeah
2020-04-20T16:24:12 < Laurenceb> oh neat
2020-04-20T16:24:21 < mawk> I want one
2020-04-20T16:24:27 < Laurenceb> me 2
2020-04-20T16:33:10 < Thorn> wb is 2.4GHz iirc. they talked about it too. ble, zigbee, thread, custom protocols
2020-04-20T16:35:34 < Cracki> wonder what their understanding of "open radio" will be
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2020-04-20T16:40:31 < zyp> mawk, no, the old stm32w or whatever
2020-04-20T16:40:42 < zyp> stm32wb is kinda decent
2020-04-20T16:41:00 < karlp> BrainDamage: yeah, it can probably be postporcessed, just tedious
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2020-04-20T16:57:56 < Steffanx> whats the hardest part of a vegetable to eat?
2020-04-20T16:58:43 < BrainDamage> the bones?
2020-04-20T16:58:48 < Steffanx> the wheelchair.
2020-04-20T16:59:15 < BrainDamage> that's not part of a person
2020-04-20T17:02:16 < Thorn> stm32wb has a separate core for the radio just like I wanted
2020-04-20T17:02:17 < Steffanx> ok for you BrainDamage: Getting them out of the wheelchair.
2020-04-20T17:03:02 < Steffanx> i know that is still not 100% grammatically correct, but deal with it :P
2020-04-20T17:03:25 < Thorn> a wheelchair would be useless for a vegetable, they couldn't sit upright in it
2020-04-20T17:06:04 < zyp> Thorn, yeah, it's kinda neat like that
2020-04-20T17:06:11 < Steffanx> And 100% locked still?
2020-04-20T17:06:15 < Steffanx> > useless?
2020-04-20T17:06:23 < zyp> I haven't looked recently
2020-04-20T17:06:27 < zyp> but I assume it is
2020-04-20T17:06:39 < zyp> i.e. CPU2 only runs vendor provided radio stacks
2020-04-20T17:07:23 < zyp> last I messed around with it, the interface documentation towards the radio stack was not published yet, but I expect it is now
2020-04-20T17:10:01 < Steffanx> i wouldnt be surprised if it isnt published at all
2020-04-20T17:10:45 < Thorn> they did say custom protocols in the presentation, not sure if you have to use the application core for that
2020-04-20T17:13:02 < catphish> does stm32wb come with binary radio stacks for different things like BT, zigbee, others?
2020-04-20T17:14:00 < mawk> even for wb zyp ?
2020-04-20T17:14:06 < catphish> i keep meaning to play with home automation networking, but don't have a good project for it
2020-04-20T17:14:10 < mawk> or only the new wl is open
2020-04-20T17:14:17 < mawk> nrf52 does, catphish 
2020-04-20T17:14:21 < mawk> and you can roll your own
2020-04-20T17:14:23 < mawk> it's very cool
2020-04-20T17:14:30 < mawk> nrf52840
2020-04-20T17:15:08 < catphish> 2.4 GHz proprietary stacks sounds fun
2020-04-20T17:16:02 < catphish> but i'm probably more interested in out of the box protocols (zigbee and similar)
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2020-04-20T17:49:46 < Thorn> oh no a nrf project
2020-04-20T17:49:53 < Thorn> hello s132 my old friend :/
2020-04-20T17:54:35 < Thorn> musics for the mood https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ay3PmxZJthk
2020-04-20T18:01:00 < aandrew> haha yes I'm doing nrf right now as well
2020-04-20T18:01:25 < aandrew> fucking bullshit between vector table pointing to sd and having bootloader and main app all in specific regions and so on
2020-04-20T18:12:09 < dongs> works out of the box on keil
2020-04-20T18:12:14 < dongs> nothing to do
2020-04-20T18:12:19 < dongs> just build and flash
2020-04-20T18:14:52 < mawk> it's not a proprietary stack catphish 
2020-04-20T18:14:53 < englishman> >on keil
2020-04-20T18:14:56 < mawk> i'm not talking about nrf24
2020-04-20T18:14:58 < englishman> much too pro for aandrew
2020-04-20T18:15:18 < englishman> he bills so much because he spends all his time writing makefiles
2020-04-20T18:15:20 < mawk> nrf52 has pre-made stacks for anything, including their "proprietary" nrf24, but you can do whatever you want on 2.4GHz as well
2020-04-20T18:15:23 < mawk> roll your own
2020-04-20T18:15:29 < mawk> I like makefiles
2020-04-20T18:17:58 -!- boddax [~androirc@62.19.83.146] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds]
2020-04-20T18:18:05 < dongs> you like wasting itme
2020-04-20T18:19:21 < catphish> when all you have is a drill, all problems can be solved with a hole https://i.imgur.com/I8z4lvd.png
2020-04-20T18:20:02 < mawk> writing a nice little makefile takes less time than setting up cmake and all
2020-04-20T18:20:17 < mawk> that's a nice hole of yours catphish 
2020-04-20T18:20:32 < Steffanx> *click* *click* ... 1000 clicks later have keil installed and the wizard completed.
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2020-04-20T18:26:22 < specing> closed sores
2020-04-20T18:27:27 < mawk> my ecig leaksssssssssssss
2020-04-20T18:27:29 < mawk> I'm tired of it
2020-04-20T18:27:41 < mawk> I bought at ROOKWINKEL.NL a new one with next day delivery
2020-04-20T18:28:01 < mawk> it's because I put extra PG in my mix for increased throat pain
2020-04-20T18:28:10 < mawk> it decreases the viscosity
2020-04-20T18:28:31 < mawk> but because of a stupid EU law the tanks are capped to 2mL
2020-04-20T18:28:33 < mawk> that's ridiculous
2020-04-20T18:28:48 < mawk> I'm going to refill every 20 minutes
2020-04-20T18:31:17 < Steffanx> Stop smoking
2020-04-20T18:31:52 < mawk> what
2020-04-20T18:31:57 < mawk> what kind of suggestion is that
2020-04-20T18:32:07 < mawk> nicotine protects from covid, didn't you read the news
2020-04-20T18:32:38 < mawk> I'm running low on mix too, normally I buy from USA but if I do I'll receive a 5L bottle of corona
2020-04-20T18:33:52 < Steffanx> Fuck the COVID-19
2020-04-20T18:34:41 < karlp> PaulFertser: see anything wrong with https://paste.jvnv.net/view/AN32Y ? I'm not sure what i' missing with how to construct the image, but it sure doesn't work yet.
2020-04-20T18:37:44 < PaulFertser> karlp: can you show /proc/mtd after booting this please?
2020-04-20T18:37:57 < PaulFertser> Ah, it's not even seeing rootfs, right?
2020-04-20T18:38:30 < PaulFertser> karlp: you skipped important kernel output that should be right after 0x0000000a0000-0x000001000000 : "firmware"
2020-04-20T18:39:45 < PaulFertser> karlp: do you have CONFIG_MTD_SPLIT_UIMAGE_FW=y ?
2020-04-20T18:40:09 < PaulFertser> karlp: does your firmware partition in DTS have appropriate compatible property?
2020-04-20T18:44:36 < karlp> yeah, I have that, it looks like I might not have split_uimage_fw though. checking now
2020-04-20T18:46:19 < karlp> I  got someone else's attention on it finally too, had the exact same suggestion, I didn't even know I needed it :|
2020-04-20T18:47:07 < karlp> there was nothing after that line before, it just went on with like phy mdio probing stuff, so I snipped it, 
2020-04-20T18:47:15 < karlp> but yes, that's  obviosuly whwere somethign was missing!
2020-04-20T18:47:31 < zyp> everything is obvious when you know what you're looking for
2020-04-20T18:49:21 < karlp> you b et :)
2020-04-20T18:54:59 < mawk> karlp is speaking french
2020-04-20T19:01:36 < kaki9000> what is the deal with inverted gerber copper layers?
2020-04-20T19:01:41 < kaki9000> is it a thing?
2020-04-20T19:03:00 < zyp> it's common for plane layers to be inverted
2020-04-20T19:03:05 < qyx> what happened to mouser, my order is "in warehouse" status since 2020-04-17
2020-04-20T19:03:08 < qyx> which is unusual
2020-04-20T19:03:14 < zyp> covid happened
2020-04-20T19:03:29 < qyx> in texas too?
2020-04-20T19:03:31 < qyx> such illness
2020-04-20T19:04:45 < kaki9000> how do you know if it's inverted or not?
2020-04-20T19:04:55 < kaki9000> it there a standard for marking them somehow
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2020-04-20T19:10:09 < dongs> ive placved several digikey/mouser orders
2020-04-20T19:10:11 < dongs> all ship same day
2020-04-20T19:12:24 < englishman> it was the weekend
2020-04-20T19:12:25 < englishman> you know
2020-04-20T19:12:27 < englishman> saturday
2020-04-20T19:12:29 < englishman> then sunday
2020-04-20T19:14:00 < englishman> any value-add, "factory stock" items
2020-04-20T19:14:16 < englishman> or did you cock up the export stuff or pay via bank transfer or something
2020-04-20T19:15:35 < bitmask> I still gotta glue it together,  but I think this might actually work.  the threaded rod and cones are hollow to pass a titanium wire through so that I can take my piece to be plated and clamp it between the cones and pass current through it
2020-04-20T19:15:37 < bitmask> https://i.imgur.com/7i1glLO.jpg
2020-04-20T19:23:00 < BrainDamage> if it fails you can always use it as torture instrument
2020-04-20T19:23:12 < bitmask> good idea
2020-04-20T19:23:39 < mawk> a balls torture instrument
2020-04-20T19:23:53 < BrainDamage> how do you tighten the rod? by hand?
2020-04-20T19:25:53 < bitmask> yea
2020-04-20T19:26:26 < bitmask> i'll probably glue on a handle to make it easier to grab
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2020-04-20T19:35:36 < kaki9000> why are inverted copper layers used anyway?
2020-04-20T19:40:18 < karlp> 0.00
2020-04-20T19:41:41 -!- machinehum [~machinehu@2601:600:837f:9080:de:3b73:ecdc:6d42] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds]
2020-04-20T19:57:09 < zyp> kaki9000, because plane layers are usually full except where they are not
2020-04-20T19:57:13 < englishman> local artisans making designer masks $29
2020-04-20T19:58:56 < Thorn> rotten capitalism
2020-04-20T20:06:56 < Steffanx> Hail Russia!
2020-04-20T20:08:20 < Thorn> >Executing a target function, but time-out.
2020-04-20T20:08:49 < Steffanx> hows mp3 decoding Thorn?
2020-04-20T20:09:14 < Thorn> planning to test it tomorrow
2020-04-20T20:11:04 < Thorn> first ever digital protest rallies: people putting comments on maps en masse https://twitter.com/RuBlackListNET/status/1252249390032596994
2020-04-20T20:11:30 < qyx> mp3 decoding?
2020-04-20T20:11:32 < qyx> what with?
2020-04-20T20:11:37 < Steffanx> minimp3
2020-04-20T20:11:38 < Thorn> Yandex, the most progressive company in the country, is deleting them
2020-04-20T20:11:41 < Steffanx> i guess
2020-04-20T20:11:57 < Thorn> on nrf52832 no less
2020-04-20T20:12:11 < Steffanx> oh yay
2020-04-20T20:13:51 -!- machinehum [~machinehu@static-50-34-72-186.rdmd.wa.frontiernet.net] has joined ##stm32
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2020-04-20T20:18:27 < boddax> manual mp3 decoder 
2020-04-20T20:18:30 < boddax> https://assets.catawiki.nl/assets/2019/2/11/d/5/d/d5d5bcc8-7dbc-4bc4-b61f-6274df544f08.jpg
2020-04-20T20:19:16 < Thorn> where is the compression
2020-04-20T20:20:26 -!- kaki9000 [575d1b57@87-93-27-87.bb.dnainternet.fi] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
2020-04-20T20:20:55 < Thorn> "Yandex is feeling the head on both ends: on one end, the authorities who can't grasp what's going on, on the other end, angry users who understand very well what's going on"
2020-04-20T20:21:29 < Thorn> *the heat
2020-04-20T20:30:20 -!- kakinull [575d1b57@87-93-27-87.bb.dnainternet.fi] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
2020-04-20T20:30:45 < BrainDamage> Thorn: you spin the handle faster
2020-04-20T20:42:05 -!- catphish [~user@unaffiliated/catphish] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
2020-04-20T21:14:54 -!- jsoft [~jsoft@unaffiliated/jsoft] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds]
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2020-04-20T21:31:15 < Cracki> what's with yandex
2020-04-20T21:32:24 < Cracki> lol
2020-04-20T21:41:50 < englishman> crude oil -36.50USD/bbl.
2020-04-20T21:42:56 < aandrew> that's Canadian crude or what
2020-04-20T21:43:19 < englishman> WTI
2020-04-20T21:43:48 < englishman> alberta is probably even lower lol
2020-04-20T22:09:04 < Steffanx> Sadly i wont benefit from it really :P
2020-04-20T22:22:47 < boddax> cup of hot crude oil every night before to sleep very good for yout heal
2020-04-20T22:25:04 < Steffanx> No thats how you get coronizzled.
2020-04-20T22:29:18 -!- catphish [~user@unaffiliated/catphish] has joined ##stm32
2020-04-20T22:30:43 < catphish> morning
2020-04-20T22:32:56 -!- boddax [~boddax@host76-197-dynamic.37-79-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has quit [Quit: KVIrc 5.0.0 Aria http://www.kvirc.net/]
2020-04-20T22:46:55 < Steffanx> Gooday sir.
2020-04-20T22:54:17 -!- Hamilton1 [~Hamilton@unaffiliated/hamilton] has joined ##stm32
2020-04-20T23:07:13 < Hamilton1> I guess now #corona32 has turned to #oil32? Steffanx 
2020-04-20T23:12:30 -!- k\o\w [~k\o\w@CPEe06290e885cf-CM589630ad9c27.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com] has joined ##stm32
2020-04-20T23:20:26 -!- Streaker [~Streaker@unaffiliated/streaker] has joined ##stm32
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2020-04-20T23:33:21 < kaki9000> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4qgyGAJkvWY
2020-04-20T23:33:47 < kaki9000> this is what dollies do while you sit comfortably in a train
2020-04-20T23:40:20 < kaki9000> trucks actually
2020-04-20T23:40:40 < kaki9000> but in trucks such wheel asseblies are called - dollies
2020-04-20T23:42:44 < Cracki> just saw a "web developer" job offer. 10k CHF/month (~10k USD). wtf! what do embedded developers earn in switzerland?
2020-04-20T23:45:07 < Cracki> kaki9000, where is that
2020-04-20T23:45:40 < kaki9000> idk but I think in other videos I heard some nordic language being spoken
2020-04-20T23:46:09 < ds2> sigh... MS screw over everything again
2020-04-20T23:46:39 < Cracki> bulgaria, says the account
2020-04-20T23:46:55 < Cracki> tired: embrace extend
2020-04-20T23:47:01 < Cracki> wired: screw then bolt
--- Day changed Tue Apr 21 2020
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2020-04-21T01:13:05 < jly> gooday cunts
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2020-04-21T01:58:06 < englishman> BrainDamage: gris was very good. thanks
2020-04-21T02:01:27 < kaki9000> pcb orders in
2020-04-21T02:01:39 < kaki9000> a moment of chills now
2020-04-21T02:02:15 < englishman> now you find a bunch of bullshit errors
2020-04-21T02:02:22 < jly> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Unaf4ihp6oU
2020-04-21T02:02:24 < jly> y/N
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2020-04-21T02:08:54 < dongs> mare, definitely mare
2020-04-21T02:11:06 < kaki9000> jly: y
2020-04-21T02:15:24 < kaki9000> englishman: I don't
2020-04-21T02:15:29 < kaki9000> because I won't look
2020-04-21T02:17:12 < kaki9000> now I need a movie
2020-04-21T02:17:36 < englishman> I gave you one yesterday
2020-04-21T02:25:15 < kaki9000> did I miss it?
2020-04-21T02:25:20 < kaki9000> i don't remember
2020-04-21T02:25:29 < kaki9000> did I turn it down?
2020-04-21T02:30:47 < specing> Cracki: everything is expensive in switzerland
2020-04-21T02:31:09 < Cracki> how much for a kebab
2020-04-21T02:31:30 < dongs> While working on a large design it's obvious how incredibly constrained Altium is by being a 32 bit application. I'm using a computer that's several years old with 16GB of RAM. I've never seen Altium come close to maxing the CPU on this machine despite taking hours to run DRCs on large boards. Please stop adding features and put all effort in to migrating to a flexible 64bit development environment.
2020-04-21T02:31:32 < Cracki> how much for some fries with ketchup to go
2020-04-21T02:31:35 < Cracki> trying to benchmark
2020-04-21T02:31:39 < dongs> lol @ rage on altium bugtracker
2020-04-21T02:31:53 < zyp> heh
2020-04-21T02:31:59 < dongs> the above bug opened on: apr 2016
2020-04-21T02:32:01 < zyp> dongs, did you see the error I got the other day?
2020-04-21T02:32:05 < Cracki> how are they still 32 bit
2020-04-21T02:32:06 < dongs> nope, retweet
2020-04-21T02:32:18 < zyp> https://bin.jvnv.net/file/bOOQ9.png
2020-04-21T02:32:30 < dongs> nice
2020-04-21T02:32:36 < dongs> lots of detail
2020-04-21T02:32:40 < jly> ty zyp
2020-04-21T02:32:54 < zyp> unlike other altium crashes, however, altium actually kept running fine, I just didn't get any DRC results
2020-04-21T02:33:32 < Cracki> so it can catch exceptions
2020-04-21T02:33:34 < dongs> o yeah, they nailed the 'kept running' thign a while back
2020-04-21T02:33:44 < dongs> i rarely get crashes these days but when I do they're always recoverable
2020-04-21T02:33:51 < dongs> tho I usually just save everything and quit right away
2020-04-21T02:34:00 < dongs> long gone days when you get 1000 popups of 'crash report' dialog
2020-04-21T02:34:04 < zyp> fine as in not reoccuring every time you move the mouse pointer
2020-04-21T02:34:10 < dongs> and have to super quickly click close before a new one opens
2020-04-21T02:34:24 < dongs> < zyp> fine as in not reoccuring every time you move the mouse pointer
2020-04-21T02:34:25 < dongs> haha this
2020-04-21T02:34:29 < dongs> ive had that happen
2020-04-21T02:34:34 < zyp> I figured out you just have to use keyboard navigation to save and click
2020-04-21T02:34:35 < dongs> actually worked to alt-f-s from keyboard
2020-04-21T02:34:37 < dongs> without moving mouse
2020-04-21T02:34:38 < dongs> yes
2020-04-21T02:34:46 < zyp> s/click/quit/
2020-04-21T02:35:14 < zyp> I figure the thousand popups are caused by a thousand mouse moved events
2020-04-21T02:35:24 < kaki9000> englishman?
2020-04-21T02:35:27 < englishman> sup
2020-04-21T02:35:40 < zyp> and I'm still on AD15 since that's what I got a license for
2020-04-21T02:35:41 < kaki9000> did I respond to recommd?
2020-04-21T02:35:50 < englishman> you unwisely turned it down
2020-04-21T02:36:09 < kaki9000> let me turn it down again
2020-04-21T02:36:13 < kaki9000> what was it
2020-04-21T02:36:29 < zyp> dongs, speaking of altium, apart from shipping, how's it looking for that layout I sent you?
2020-04-21T02:36:29 < englishman> i had to work in altidumb today over a slow ass vpn on a slow ass computer with slow ass nvs450 today
2020-04-21T02:36:40 < englishman> havy metal (1981)
2020-04-21T02:36:49 < kaki9000> yese
2020-04-21T02:36:53 < kaki9000> I have seen it twice
2020-04-21T02:37:08 < kaki9000> and recommended it at least once here
2020-04-21T02:39:27 < englishman> the bridge over river kwai
2020-04-21T02:41:50 < kaki9000> looks familiar
2020-04-21T02:43:56 -!- Laurenceb [~laurence@223.141.208.46.dyn.plus.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds]
2020-04-21T02:46:35 -!- Mangy_Dog [Mangy_Dog@unaffiliated/mangy-dog/x-3069595] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds]
2020-04-21T02:46:59 < jly> ty 
2020-04-21T02:48:56 < kaki9000> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1JP7A_A0tY4 hard drives - ruined
2020-04-21T02:49:16 < dongs> zyp, data-wise looks fien
2020-04-21T02:49:34 < kaki9000> "shingled magnetic recording"
2020-04-21T02:49:52 < kaki9000> they made them drives too smart
2020-04-21T02:50:00 < kaki9000> to pack more data in
2020-04-21T02:50:21 < zyp> dongs, good
2020-04-21T02:50:37 < dongs> fuck these dumb youtube links with useless content
2020-04-21T02:50:48 < dongs> that 30 mintue video could have been a 100 word article
2020-04-21T02:50:53  * sync starts humming "get perpendicular"
2020-04-21T02:50:54 < kaki9000> ye
2020-04-21T02:50:54 < dongs> that I could just fuckign read
2020-04-21T02:51:07 < kaki9000> I can't read
2020-04-21T02:51:44 < kaki9000> anyway some tricks are made inside HDDs now that can lead into major performance issues
2020-04-21T02:52:06 < ds2> we need more plastics, STAT!
2020-04-21T02:52:28 < kaki9000> null>
2020-04-21T02:52:40 < ds2> oil futures are going negative
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2020-04-21T02:59:08 < sync> ds2: good
2020-04-21T03:06:07 < englishman> oil is a boomer commodity
2020-04-21T03:06:28 < englishman> this generation is all about avocadoes and malt liquor energy drinks
2020-04-21T03:17:10 < aandrew> heh
2020-04-21T03:17:29 < aandrew> $230 later I have 2x 14Ah and 2x 20Ah batteries for my two UPSes
2020-04-21T03:17:43 < ds2> what UPSes?
2020-04-21T03:17:46 < ds2> APCs?
2020-04-21T03:17:50 < aandrew> the 14Ah were pretty easy. old batteries are dry and bulging, pretty normal
2020-04-21T03:18:02 < aandrew> 20Ah came out fine, but the fuse between the two batteries looks *toasted*
2020-04-21T03:18:31 < aandrew> negative terminal of one of the batteries looks like it actually saw a flame, and where the tab enters the battery body itself is cracked and black shit leaked out at some point
2020-04-21T03:18:44 < dongs> oops i fucked up a RS485 schematic, swapped rx/tx
2020-04-21T03:18:46 < aandrew> I can't get the screw off of the negative terminal at all, it's like welded in there
2020-04-21T03:18:50 < dongs> luckily it was L0 with uart that can swap rxtx
2020-04-21T03:19:02 < aandrew> so spent the last hr on digikey and mouser looking for the replacement fuse. ordered from mouser, let's see if they fuck me
2020-04-21T03:19:19 < aandrew> ds2: yep, BP1000 and BP1400
2020-04-21T03:19:30 < dongs> $230? what teh fuck did you order genuine APC or something
2020-04-21T03:19:40 < aandrew> dongs: no, that's the going rate it seems here
2020-04-21T03:19:59 < aandrew> one battery supplier was $330, called two others and they were both $250 but this one gave me 10% off
2020-04-21T03:20:00 < dongs> disgusting. i ordered 4 for like $60
2020-04-21T03:20:10 < dongs> of the 12V 9Ah shit
2020-04-21T03:20:13 < dongs> standard ups badd
2020-04-21T03:20:15 < dongs> batt
2020-04-21T03:20:19 < aandrew> these are quite a bit bigger
2020-04-21T03:20:29 < dongs> oh i see 14ah
2020-04-21T03:20:30 < aandrew> two 14Ah and two 20Ah
2020-04-21T03:20:57 < aandrew> looks like one of old 20Ah is perfectly fine, no bulged or anything, but that one saw some heat
2020-04-21T03:21:12 < aandrew> of course the fucking things are glued together so it'll be a pain to rescue the good battery
2020-04-21T03:21:21 < dongs> 14Ah is 35bucks here
2020-04-21T03:21:23 < dongs> seems
2020-04-21T03:21:29 < dongs> for the typical LONG chink knockoff
2020-04-21T03:21:38 < aandrew> we'll see how long these last, I am sure that I replaced one of these supplies about 3 or so years ago
2020-04-21T03:21:43 < dongs> https://thumbnail.image.rakuten.co.jp/@0_mall/auc-ymt-energy/cabinet/01382423/imgrc0082117899.jpg?_ex=200x200&s=0&r=1
2020-04-21T03:22:13 < ds2> who's selling cheap UPS batteries?
2020-04-21T03:22:16 < aandrew> yep those are the 12/14ah variety
2020-04-21T03:22:24 < ds2> I really need to change out mine
2020-04-21T03:22:41 < aandrew> the 20s are tall and a little narrower
2020-04-21T03:22:51 < aandrew> so not "long", har har
2020-04-21T03:23:00 < dongs> 9Ah stuff is  around 18bucks looks like
2020-04-21T03:23:09 < dongs> didnt look around too much
2020-04-21T03:23:09 < ds2> shipping gets unpleasant w/LA batteries
2020-04-21T03:23:11 < dongs> maybe a set is cheaepr
2020-04-21T03:23:53 < dongs> 18$ and free jp shipping, nice
2020-04-21T03:23:58 < dongs> sets are more expensive
2020-04-21T03:24:06 < dongs> i do need to update some of my UPSs
2020-04-21T03:24:13 < ds2> blah
2020-04-21T03:24:52 < aandrew> yeah they're likely cheap as fuck in japland because you're so close to the mfg
2020-04-21T03:24:56 < aandrew> the old ones I have are vietnam
2020-04-21T03:25:39 < dongs> all my ups stuff is that LONG shit, they're always the cheapest
2020-04-21T03:28:37 < dongs> o well ordered
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2020-04-21T03:37:09 < specing> dongs: can't you stick in li-ion and be done with it forever?
2020-04-21T03:52:02 < englishman> whats that program where you draw a known dimensions and it tells you unknowns
2020-04-21T03:52:20 < englishman> something german
2020-04-21T03:55:47 < jly> ?
2020-04-21T03:55:49 < jly> https://usercontent.irccloud-cdn.com/file/XtD0lwvE/lolmate.png
2020-04-21T04:02:42 < aandrew> I want to work on nrf shits tonight but it looks like I should focus on stm32 shits instead
2020-04-21T04:02:49 < aandrew> the latter shits are not enjoyable becuase it's C++ bullshit
2020-04-21T04:13:28 -!- catphish [~user@unaffiliated/catphish] has quit [Quit: Leaving]
2020-04-21T04:24:58 < azonenberg> o/ aandrew you hang out here too?
2020-04-21T04:31:30 -!- jsoft [~jsoft@unaffiliated/jsoft] has joined ##stm32
2020-04-21T04:41:15 < aandrew> azonenberg: I idle here 24/7
2020-04-21T04:41:28 < aandrew> this is one of my "home" channels
2020-04-21T04:46:27 < azonenberg> Ah ok
2020-04-21T04:46:39 < azonenberg> aandrew: i'm finally getting back to mcu firmware work for the first time in ages
2020-04-21T04:47:17 < aandrew> azonenberg: this is slumming it for you :-)
2020-04-21T04:48:12 < azonenberg> Lol
2020-04-21T04:48:30 < azonenberg> Well my oscilloscope front end project has a stm32f031 on the characterization platform
2020-04-21T04:48:44 < azonenberg> It's... getting a bit tight, i think i can fit everything i need but it's certainly not massive overkill
2020-04-21T04:49:51 < azonenberg> i'm using every pin on the micro and my (nowhere near complete) firmware is using 40% of the flash and 20% of the ram for globals, plus however much i use in stack
2020-04-21T04:51:24 < azonenberg> The actual scope will probably have a f777 which will be comfortably spacious by comparison :p
2020-04-21T04:53:59 < aandrew> yep
2020-04-21T04:54:12 < aandrew> I usually do dev with the biggest part I can get then scale back
2020-04-21T04:55:32 < azonenberg> well this was a characterization platform that just ran a single lane's AFE
2020-04-21T04:55:42 < azonenberg> and it was a one-off
2020-04-21T04:55:52 < azonenberg> i had some f031s on hand from a project that never happened and figured i'd just use one of them
2020-04-21T04:56:17 < azonenberg> all it's doing is running a scpi interface and controlling some gpios and dacs and stuff
2020-04-21T04:57:19 < azonenberg> the actual scope's processor will have to control eight lanes of this stuff, handle firmware updates and various things along those lines
2020-04-21T04:57:30 < azonenberg> run the front panel status LCD and UI to do IP configuration and stuff
2020-04-21T04:57:59 < azonenberg> and push data-plane commands like changing sample rate, memory depth, and trigger config to the FPGA
2020-04-21T05:04:42 < aandrew> yep makes sense
2020-04-21T05:15:49 < azonenberg> aandrew: interestingly i do not plan on doing tcp/ip on the f777
2020-04-21T05:16:00 < azonenberg> despite the ultimate interface to the outside world being a tcp socket
2020-04-21T05:16:08 < aandrew> yeah I know, you have a crazy HDL TCP/IP engine
2020-04-21T05:16:26 < azonenberg> well the main thing is, i need the fpga to be doing tcp anyway in order to saturate gig or 10g with waveform data
2020-04-21T05:16:34 < azonenberg> and at that point my options are either to have two stacks or to do all socket processing on the fpga
2020-04-21T05:17:01 < azonenberg> So at that point running ethernet on the micro is kinda pointless
2020-04-21T05:17:48 < aandrew> on my most recent project the FPGA would just create UDP frames (the STM32 would set up the header bits, it would fill the payload and checksums)
2020-04-21T05:17:55 < aandrew> it was just gige though
2020-04-21T05:19:08 < azonenberg> yeah this project was originally planned to just be gig
2020-04-21T05:19:43 < azonenberg> but then i realized that the artix i needed, in order to have enough pins for the ADCs and RAM etc, would have a bunch of unused GTPs
2020-04-21T05:19:51 < azonenberg> and so it seemed silly not to hook them up
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2020-04-21T05:36:50 < upgrdman> makefile pros: im trying to read text from the console and use it as part of a command. for example, if the use types "foo" I want to execute "javap -s foo" ... this is what i tried, and it doesn't work: "@read -p "Enter the fully-qualified class name: (example: java.util.List)" CLASSNAME; javap -s $(CLASSNAME)" any ideas?
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2020-04-21T05:44:58 < aandrew> I'm not a Makefile pro, sorry
2020-04-21T05:50:43 < upgrdman> k
2020-04-21T05:51:13 < fenugrec> upgrdman, that's evil
2020-04-21T05:51:22 < upgrdman> ?
2020-04-21T05:51:32 < fenugrec> but try "read -rp "asdfasdf"...' I have that in a bash script, seems to work. Not a makefile though
2020-04-21T05:52:01 < fenugrec> I forget what the -r does
2020-04-21T05:52:42 < upgrdman> hmm. i have no "read" ... shit maybe thats why :) guess it wasnt part of hte msys2 shit i installed
2020-04-21T05:53:01 < fenugrec> it's provided by bash IIRC
2020-04-21T05:53:26 < upgrdman> msys/libreadline 8.0.004-1 (libraries) [installed]
2020-04-21T05:53:26 < upgrdman>     GNU readline library\
2020-04-21T05:53:32 < upgrdman> hmm
2020-04-21T05:53:43 < fenugrec> read != readline
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2020-04-21T07:06:42 < upgrdman> hmm. seems like make is now allowing "read -p" (or -rp) to read user input. fuck
2020-04-21T07:07:10 < upgrdman> s/now/not
2020-04-21T07:07:30 < upgrdman> "bash; read -p "Enter the fully-qualified class name (example: java.util.List)" CLASSNAME; javap -s $$CLASSNAME" still fails
2020-04-21T07:32:18 < upgrdman> ok. this work if i call make from cmd.exe, but fails if i call make from eclipse. damn, i guess eclipse is blocking access to stdin :( "@bash -c 'read -p "Enter the fully-qualified class name (example: java.util.List)" CLASSNAME && javap -s $$CLASSNAME';"
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2020-04-21T08:08:25 < Thorn> upgrdman do you know you can call make with a variable definition on the command line? make VAR=value target
2020-04-21T08:08:38 < upgrdman> no
2020-04-21T08:08:49 < Thorn> would be far more convenient for the user than having to enter the same thing over again
2020-04-21T08:09:13 < upgrdman> but its just a utility target. its only called if the user needs some info
2020-04-21T08:09:20 < Thorn> and it would be stored in the shell history
2020-04-21T08:09:27 < upgrdman> that's ok
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2020-04-21T08:10:39 < bitmask> https://i.imgur.com/ilTCmBY.png
2020-04-21T08:12:23 < Thorn> just don't print GLaDOS ok?
2020-04-21T08:13:03 < bitmask> ok
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2020-04-21T09:29:56 < Thorn> ok I'm beginning to understand what aandrew meant by MBR. last time I used nrf I was on sdk 14 which didn't have that
2020-04-21T09:47:26 < upgrdman> master butt record?
2020-04-21T09:48:01 < srk> bitmask: uu that's cool
2020-04-21T09:48:28 < srk> why not GLaDOS? :D
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2020-04-21T10:26:07 < Thorn> srk: because deadly neurotoxin
2020-04-21T10:26:19 < Thorn> 3 CoV patients cured in Moscow by transfusions of plasma with antibodies
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2020-04-21T12:04:46 < mawk> probably some oligarcs Thorn 
2020-04-21T12:04:51 < mawk> who can afford this
2020-04-21T12:08:43 < Thorn> mawk: btw iirc they pay about $75 to people with CoV antibodies for 500 ml of blood
2020-04-21T12:09:05 < mawk> lol
2020-04-21T12:09:13 < mawk> just like in the us
2020-04-21T12:09:16 < mawk> with all the blood slaves
2020-04-21T12:09:29 < Thorn> is MCO from st-link running and connected to the target mcu by default on discovery boards?
2020-04-21T12:09:53 < mawk> on nucleo yes, maybe it's the same for disco
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2020-04-21T12:15:07 < mawk> look on the board for a HSE crystal
2020-04-21T12:15:18 < mawk> there's none on nucleo because they use MCO from stlink
2020-04-21T12:15:20 < mawk> it's unpopulated
2020-04-21T12:15:43 < mawk> at least for the ones I have
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2020-04-21T12:36:55 < karlp> azonenberg: is your scpi layer available anywhere, or are you using any existing blobs for that?
2020-04-21T12:38:37 < Thorn> mawk: it's unpopulated, and the circuit is there in the schematics, I just hoped someone can confirm that all the solder bridges are set up properly from the factory :)
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2020-04-21T13:37:02 < karlp> anyone kno
2020-04-21T13:37:43 < Ultrasauce> no
2020-04-21T13:38:50 < Ultrasauce> oh haven't musicspammed in a bit https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5H7FYU35Z9c
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2020-04-21T14:38:13 < Steffanx> You wanted us to forget about your music spam uh?
2020-04-21T14:43:46 < Ultrasauce> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4wPOD4m0uD0 never
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2020-04-21T14:48:28 < mawk> I received me ecigarette from rookwinkel.nl Steffanx 
2020-04-21T14:48:31 < mawk> next day delivery
2020-04-21T14:48:33 < mawk> dutchland is modern
2020-04-21T14:48:45 < mawk> but there's still this hugely stupid european law that caps tanks to 2mL
2020-04-21T14:49:08 < mawk> so the manufacturer just increased the size of the coil that goes inside to reduce the effective size of the tank, then sells smaller coils as spare parts
2020-04-21T14:49:10 < mawk> very clever
2020-04-21T14:49:44 < mawk> same for the 10mL restriction on nicotine mixe, people just buy like 10 little bottles at once, it's just more expensive and a waste of plastic, but they still do it
2020-04-21T14:50:04 < mawk> just more annoying for e-smokers, as if the law was enacted following instructions from tobacco lobbies...
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2020-04-21T15:22:11 < antto> so that's why they're 10ml
2020-04-21T15:22:36 < antto> huh, not sure where's the logic when there's varying levels of nicotine in them
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2020-04-21T15:38:05 < mawk> antto: the logic is max 10mL, max 18mg/mL nicotine
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2020-04-21T15:39:16 < mawk> so obviously they sell 10mL 18mg/mL bottles as "boosters"
2020-04-21T15:39:17 < antto> that's as if putting a limit on alcohol bottlez to be 700ml max would change anything
2020-04-21T15:39:23 < mawk> to put in non-nicotine bases that don't have a cap on size
2020-04-21T15:39:34 < mawk> yeah
2020-04-21T15:40:02 < antto> or meal size at mucDolan's
2020-04-21T15:40:28 < antto> fat guy buys 2 cheezburg0rz cuz they like biscuitz
2020-04-21T15:44:10 < mawk> macdolan
2020-04-21T15:48:37 < Thorn> all you need to know about the nordick sdk https://devzone.nordicsemi.com/f/nordic-q-a/46177/migration-from-sdk-14-2-0-to-15-3-0-nrf_drv_uart-h-127-13-error-unknown-type-name-nrf_uarte_baudrate_t
2020-04-21T15:49:02 < Thorn> (I've had an even more bizarre error)
2020-04-21T15:51:47 < antto> http://3.bp.blogspot.com/-pYzlmjbzmv8/UXdO-LYr2HI/AAAAAAAABQo/oRu7g5EAhaY/s1600/Photo+Apr+19,+10+56+26+AM.jpg
2020-04-21T15:52:37 < antto> paint him white and call him the next michelin boi
2020-04-21T16:45:02 < Thorn> mp3 on nrf52832 is a success
2020-04-21T16:45:31 < Thorn> a file with a higher sample rate & bitrate than I need decodes 2x faster than real time
2020-04-21T16:45:45 < kaki9000> why?
2020-04-21T16:45:57 < kaki9000> is it sound record?
2020-04-21T16:46:01 < kaki9000> or something else?
2020-04-21T16:47:37 < Thorn> i wasn't playing it over i2s, just decoding as fast as it can
2020-04-21T16:49:08 < kaki9000> ah
2020-04-21T16:49:25 < kaki9000> what are you up to?
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2020-04-21T16:50:26 < Thorn> the end goal is to receive files over ble, put them onto a sd card and then play them from there
2020-04-21T17:12:16 < rmaw> anyone ever imported assembled pcbs into the UK ?
2020-04-21T17:12:27 < rmaw> enought that you had to declare them to customs
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2020-04-21T18:38:28 < Laurenceb> rmaw: uk customs is a disaster zone
2020-04-21T18:39:07 < Laurenceb> they dont have time to categorise stuff correctly so just lump it into a high tax category
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2020-04-21T18:39:23 < Laurenceb> good news is you can reclaim excess tax later
2020-04-21T18:40:38 < benishor> by peeing on it
2020-04-21T18:40:56 < Laurenceb> lulwut
2020-04-21T18:41:21 < benishor> it just fit
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2020-04-21T19:24:55 < Cracki> benis, peeing on it, my client gives your nick the color yellow, what does it all mean
2020-04-21T19:31:10 < boddax> wrong placement of b , p
2020-04-21T19:32:00 < Cracki> penisµor
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2020-04-21T19:42:27 < rmaw> Laurenceb, I mean most of it looks lik 3.3%
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2020-04-21T19:42:51 < rmaw> really hard to say tho, is it "parts therof" of something or one of the integrated circuit catagories
2020-04-21T19:43:08 < rmaw> whole thing seems to be riddled with very general and very very specfic codes
2020-04-21T19:43:13 < Laurenceb> they dont care
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2020-04-21T19:43:38 < Laurenceb> large companies employ lawyers to argue its category x
2020-04-21T19:44:00 < Laurenceb> for small guys if you send them a letter arguing that its category x then they usually agree and refund you
2020-04-21T19:44:26 < Laurenceb> for large company they would disagree because there is more money involved
2020-04-21T19:44:59 < Laurenceb> so pick something with low tax and send them a letter saying it was that
2020-04-21T19:45:03 < mawk> lol
2020-04-21T19:45:09 < mawk> fraudster Laurenceb 
2020-04-21T19:45:26 < Laurenceb> the staff wage required to argue with you isnt worth it for them
2020-04-21T19:45:42 < mawk> they don't have to argue
2020-04-21T19:45:48 < mawk> they just send you a bill, and you pay
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2020-04-21T19:46:21 < rmaw> well DHL do the clearance, so I just have to hand it over to them
2020-04-21T19:46:39 < Laurenceb> sure
2020-04-21T19:46:45 < Laurenceb> but you can reclaim the tax
2020-04-21T19:46:48 < rmaw> https://www.trade-tariff.service.gov.uk/
2020-04-21T19:46:52 < rmaw> that working for you?
2020-04-21T19:46:58 < Laurenceb> yeah
2020-04-21T19:47:00 < mawk> no
2020-04-21T19:47:03 < mawk> because the uk stopped all trade
2020-04-21T19:47:07 < Laurenceb> lol
2020-04-21T19:47:20 < mawk> 404 Not Found: Requested route ('www.trade-tariff.service.gov.uk') does not exist.
2020-04-21T19:47:57 < rmaw> yea
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2020-04-21T19:48:42 < rmaw> how can you reclaim the tax ?
2020-04-21T19:48:56 < rmaw> surely import duty has to be paid 
2020-04-21T19:49:06 < rmaw> or you talking about the vat ?
2020-04-21T19:49:15 < mawk> reclaim the difference
2020-04-21T19:49:23 < rmaw> ahh
2020-04-21T19:49:26 < mawk> between what you paid for the alleged category and what you would've paid for the real category
2020-04-21T19:49:50 < mawk> that's how it goes with fiscal disputes
2020-04-21T19:49:54 < mawk> you pay first, then you file a complaint
2020-04-21T19:51:59 < Laurenceb> yeah
2020-04-21T19:52:08 < Laurenceb> I've had success doing that before
2020-04-21T19:52:25 < Laurenceb> they almost always agree unless you are obviously bullshitting them
2020-04-21T20:20:55 < azonenberg> karlp: i wrote my own. Right now it's kinda spaghettified into one class with the application layer code that executes the commands
2020-04-21T20:21:09 < azonenberg> but splitting that apart is planned for the next couple of days
2020-04-21T20:21:55 < karlp> azonenberg: just curiuous, I've used https://github.com/j123b567/scpi-parser  before and it works well, but always nice to see other options...
2020-04-21T20:22:42 < azonenberg> karlp: part of the problem is i can't use scanf or printf or atof or a bunch of other libc functions
2020-04-21T20:23:16 < karlp> s/can't/decided not to/ I presume?
2020-04-21T20:23:40 < azonenberg> newlib's scanf and printf both use the heap and per coding policy i'm not using dynamic allocation (i abort if sbrk is called)
2020-04-21T20:23:53 < jpa-> how about bstring library?
2020-04-21T20:24:04 < azonenberg> And newlib's atof is massive and uses more flash than i have left on the f030. I could in theory use it once i move to the f777 on the final board, and probably will
2020-04-21T20:24:28 < jpa-> full-function atof() is always bloaty
2020-04-21T20:24:37 < azonenberg> being softfloat doesnt help
2020-04-21T20:24:54 < azonenberg> f031*
2020-04-21T20:25:02 < azonenberg> i just grabbed this micro because i had some on the shelf
2020-04-21T20:25:09 < azonenberg> didnt occur to me i'd need floating point 
2020-04-21T20:25:33 < azonenberg> re atof, right now i do a rather simplistic parser that doesnt handle anything but %d.%d format
2020-04-21T20:25:42 < jpa-> qfplib has faster operations + it has qfp_str2float() that is not huge
2020-04-21T20:25:47 < azonenberg> i.e. no scientific notation, no denormals, no nans, etc
2020-04-21T20:26:27 < azonenberg> jpa-: GPL, so no go
2020-04-21T20:26:48 < azonenberg> My project is permissively licensed which puts me in an annoying corner
2020-04-21T20:27:06 < jpa-> yeah, for commercial you could just buy a license
2020-04-21T20:27:07 < azonenberg> i can't afford to buy a commercial license of anything, but i also can't use copyleft (LGPL/GPL) libraries
2020-04-21T20:27:27 < azonenberg> Hence being forced to reimplement a bunch of stuff, like not using libopencm3
2020-04-21T20:28:35 < azonenberg> in fact even if i could afford a commercial license, it wouldn't work unless it was transferrable to my users
2020-04-21T20:28:57 < azonenberg> Basically my approach is that i will always keep the core codebase open but i explicitly want to permit a third party to make their own closed source fork
2020-04-21T20:29:06 -!- catphish [~user@unaffiliated/catphish] has joined ##stm32
2020-04-21T20:31:34 < azonenberg> anyway re floats my plan is to keep my hacky atof alternative on the f031, this is just a bringup board to test other parts of the system
2020-04-21T20:31:47 < azonenberg> then the f777 has hardfloat and most of the problem goes away
2020-04-21T20:31:58 < azonenberg> (and vastly more flash, so i dont have to worry about ultra tight code)
2020-04-21T20:37:04 < catphish> morning
2020-04-21T20:37:16 < mawk> hi catphish 
2020-04-21T20:37:19 < mawk> it's not the morning at all
2020-04-21T20:37:24 < mawk> did you drink all night
2020-04-21T20:37:42 < Thorn> I'm out of usb cables
2020-04-21T20:37:54 < Thorn> I've got 8 boards and 3 debuggers connected
2020-04-21T20:37:58 < mawk> lol
2020-04-21T20:38:01 < Thorn> I need µUSB cables
2020-04-21T20:38:10 < mawk> these are easy to buy
2020-04-21T20:38:14 < mawk> go to your local paki shop
2020-04-21T20:39:16 < Thorn> I've used up all my ugreen cables and I've nothing left to charge my smartphone
2020-04-21T20:39:24 < Thorn> it only charges well with ugreen cables
2020-04-21T20:40:25 < catphish> mawk: i always drink all night
2020-04-21T20:41:52 < Steffanx> Are you a drunk?
2020-04-21T20:42:01 < Steffanx> Alcoholic.
2020-04-21T20:42:49 < catphish> probably not really :)
2020-04-21T20:44:08 < mawk> if you drink more than twice a week, you are
2020-04-21T20:44:18 < catphish> then i definitely am
2020-04-21T20:44:32 < Steffanx> Ohno
2020-04-21T20:44:33 < catphish> ~300ml of alcohol a week
2020-04-21T20:45:04 < Steffanx> Alcohol or .. 300ml with x% in it?
2020-04-21T20:45:09 < catphish> alcohol
2020-04-21T20:45:13 < Steffanx> Hm
2020-04-21T20:45:16 < karlp> definition of alcoholic depends on the moral position of the person judging.
2020-04-21T20:45:21 < karlp> can find whatever defn yhou want
2020-04-21T20:45:42 < catphish> i drink enough that i feel the need to keep track of it
2020-04-21T20:45:44 < mawk> you count alcohol in grams
2020-04-21T20:45:51 < Steffanx> What do you drink me catphish 
2020-04-21T20:45:53 < catphish> but hopefully not enough to harm me
2020-04-21T20:46:10 < Steffanx> Mr*
2020-04-21T20:46:17 < mawk> it's not a moral accusation karlp, it's a medical observation
2020-04-21T20:46:23 < mawk> free of moral value
2020-04-21T20:46:42 < catphish> probably a subjective observation though
2020-04-21T20:46:42 < mawk> myself I took a combined amount of drugs that would kill a small town for instance
2020-04-21T20:47:19 < Steffanx> Methhead mawk
2020-04-21T20:47:22 < mawk> ll
2020-04-21T20:47:24 < mawk> :(
2020-04-21T20:47:28 < Steffanx> Hah
2020-04-21T20:47:53 < srk> mawk: polymorphic toxicomania as a hobby ;)
2020-04-21T20:48:14 < Steffanx> Mawk: Did you know one of the famous addicts of Dutchland died?
2020-04-21T20:48:15 < catphish> Steffanx: mostly white wine, i used to drink beer but i got fat, stopped drinking for 6 months, lost all the weight, then started drinking wine instead
2020-04-21T20:48:20 < mawk> yeah kinda srk 
2020-04-21T20:48:22 < mawk> who Steffanx ?
2020-04-21T20:48:25 < mawk> markie ?
2020-04-21T20:48:28 < Steffanx> Ufopiloot.
2020-04-21T20:48:32 < mawk> the guy addicted to power
2020-04-21T20:48:34 < mawk> ah
2020-04-21T20:49:03 < Steffanx> https://youtu.be/1X-Asda_YZ0
2020-04-21T20:49:14 < mawk> yeah
2020-04-21T20:49:19 -!- Laurenceb [~laurence@223.141.208.46.dyn.plus.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds]
2020-04-21T20:49:23 < mawk> a utrechtse ufo pilot
2020-04-21T20:49:54 < catphish> i had an interview for life insurance today, hopefully drinking almost every day isn't a problem for them :)
2020-04-21T20:51:54 < mawk> my boss didn't trust my geodesics Steffanx 
2020-04-21T20:52:14 < Steffanx> Here have some music spams from the same guy https://youtu.be/AT-_gP9qbzQ
2020-04-21T20:52:50 < catphish> whats with the special URL
2020-04-21T20:53:02 < mawk> it's youtube short url
2020-04-21T20:53:07 < mawk> click "share" on a youtube video
2020-04-21T20:53:09 < mawk> you have it
2020-04-21T20:53:15 < mawk> also it's the belgian tld, we support benelux here
2020-04-21T20:54:32 < Steffanx> Yeah 
2020-04-21T20:55:05 < Steffanx> So let him redo it mawk. Your geodesics
2020-04-21T20:55:11 < Steffanx> In php
2020-04-21T20:55:12 < mawk> lol
2020-04-21T20:55:16 < mawk> I did it in sql
2020-04-21T20:55:19 < mawk> but yeah he didn't trust it
2020-04-21T20:55:32 < mawk> so he tried my computed latitude; longitude pairs on street view
2020-04-21T20:55:39 < mawk> every single time it lands right on top of the object we're tracking
2020-04-21T20:55:41 < mawk> then he apologized
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2020-04-21T20:57:25 < Steffanx> Hah
2020-04-21T20:58:54 < mawk> he didn't trust it because my query reported that his data was off by 5km in some cases
2020-04-21T20:58:58 < mawk> i.e. he entered it wrong some day
2020-04-21T20:59:05 < mawk> so his brain couldn't compute this possibility
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2020-04-21T21:18:08 < Cracki> how old is he, what degrees does he have above high school?
2020-04-21T21:18:20 < Thorn> attn englishman https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Uz2hV38PQSA
2020-04-21T21:19:55 < karlp> mawk: it's a moral accusation, because the threshold for declaring alcoholic is whatever you want it to be :)
2020-04-21T21:20:18 < mawk> that's what scientific consensus is for
2020-04-21T21:20:26 < mawk> otherwise cancer would be a moral accusation
2020-04-21T21:20:48 < mawk> also having a subjective component to diagnosis only makes it subjective in some way, not moral
2020-04-21T21:21:27 < mawk> he's like 35 Cracki , he did industrial automation stuff
2020-04-21T21:21:32 < mawk> but he doesn't like being wrong
2020-04-21T21:21:39 < Cracki> I don't either :D
2020-04-21T21:21:44 < mawk> haha
2020-04-21T21:21:57 < Cracki> we germans call it Altersstarrsinnigkeit
2020-04-21T21:22:08 < Cracki> age-rigid-mind-ness
2020-04-21T21:22:16 < mawk> yes
2020-04-21T21:22:40 < Cracki> maybe he's been "good" at something for too long and now he can't let go of the feeling
2020-04-21T21:23:14 < Cracki> my boss has been good at some of this stuff about 15 years ago. maybe the details that made him good faded.
2020-04-21T21:24:07 < Cracki> the (contemporary) war stories I hear are about someone just buying a PLC to do the job of an arduino
2020-04-21T21:24:16 < mawk> haha
2020-04-21T21:24:29 < Cracki> they _are_ big kid sized lego
2020-04-21T21:28:28 < kaki9000> that is how PLC is used
2020-04-21T21:29:01 < kaki9000> "ah I need a blinking light bulb here"
2020-04-21T21:29:48 < kaki9000> takes one PLC from shelf and throws it at it
2020-04-21T21:34:07 < Cracki> literally yes. and then someone has to program the thing
2020-04-21T21:34:45 < kaki9000> it's 1keur per job minimum
2020-04-21T21:35:11 < kaki9000> for programming
2020-04-21T21:36:46 < englishman> sold a treadmill for $350 today
2020-04-21T21:36:53 < englishman> asked $150 for it last october
2020-04-21T21:36:57 < englishman> i love coronavirus
2020-04-21T21:37:07 < englishman> ty Thorn 
2020-04-21T21:37:08 < srk> lol!
2020-04-21T21:38:52 < Steffanx> Now you'll become FAT
2020-04-21T21:43:03 < Steffanx> But we'll love you no matter what englishman
2020-04-21T21:43:10 < zyp> my workstuff interfaces with PLCs
2020-04-21T21:43:12 < englishman> i doubt both of those things
2020-04-21T21:43:28 < zyp> I get the impression their development experience is about as shitty as arduino too
2020-04-21T21:45:42 < englishman> i tried that velocio software to see if i wanted to use a plc for something
2020-04-21T21:45:49 < englishman> it certainly is a different way of programming
2020-04-21T21:46:00 < englishman> want a timer? do it your fucking self
2020-04-21T21:46:41 < Steffanx> try ladder programming/logic
2020-04-21T21:47:06 < englishman> velocio has both, but i didnt try ladder, should i give it shot?
2020-04-21T21:47:32 < Steffanx> idk. I purged it all from my mind.
2020-04-21T21:47:33 < englishman> there are 5-6 ladder logic programming positions in town for every ee position
2020-04-21T21:48:09 < Steffanx> I did some plc crap at school decades ago (not really decades but .. a long time ago). I hated it so much that i dont even remember what i had to use
2020-04-21T21:48:18 < englishman> nice
2020-04-21T21:48:24 < Steffanx> Trying to fine an screenshot of it
2020-04-21T21:48:27 < Steffanx> it wasnt ladder
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2020-04-21T21:50:03 < Steffanx> Oh, functional block diagram stuff it was. I mainly hated the tool itself. Configuring motor drivers. Forget a check box and shit didnt work. And you had no clue why.
2020-04-21T21:51:05 < englishman> just like lunix commandline
2020-04-21T21:51:18 < Steffanx> worse.
2020-04-21T21:51:40 -!- Streaker [~Streaker@unaffiliated/streaker] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds]
2020-04-21T21:51:46 -!- Streake_ is now known as Streaker
2020-04-21T21:52:08 < Steffanx> but yeah. I think the main issue was: Bug huge corporate stuff -> Siemens. They want you to follow their 15 year course.
2020-04-21T21:53:54 < englishman> well do you really want a train full of oil or a nuclear power plant powered by an arduino
2020-04-21T21:55:13 < Cracki> structured text is at least higher than ladders or block diagrams
2020-04-21T21:55:47 < Steffanx> No, i want to run use an overpowered cpu that does nothing but control some valves.
2020-04-21T21:55:54 < Steffanx> -run
2020-04-21T21:55:54 < Cracki> they're all standardized, so frozen in time in terms of features, but companies add their own bullshit on top like crapped up android phones
2020-04-21T21:57:27 -!- ka6sox is now known as zz_ka6sox
2020-04-21T22:03:42 < Steffanx> Sadly the PLC isnt often the issue, but the HMI is. Running on some machine connected to the webs. With no password protection and nothing.
2020-04-21T22:10:08 -!- c10ud^ [~c10ud@emesene/dictator/c10ud] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds]
2020-04-21T22:22:48 -!- zz_ka6sox is now known as ka6sox
2020-04-21T22:26:03 < Steffanx> Or the SCADA crap
2020-04-21T22:31:34 < boddax> who ever bought from aliexpres raw sony sensor + hw imx290 or similar camera with usb or hdmi out ?
2020-04-21T22:33:43 < boddax> https://it.aliexpress.com/item/4000196310623.html?spm=a2g0y.12010615.8148356.3.30023e46gXDkjB i just found ethernet or analog output
2020-04-21T22:43:03 < englishman> arent there millions of camera module mfgs
2020-04-21T22:43:41 < englishman> oh starvis
2020-04-21T22:44:58 < englishman> its gonna be moer than $20
2020-04-21T22:45:06 < englishman> for a digital interface
2020-04-21T22:45:59 < boddax> output AHD-H never heard before maybe there  iC to convert hdmi
2020-04-21T22:46:17 < englishman> looks liek there are some cheap usb2 ones
2020-04-21T22:46:42 < englishman> whats the application
2020-04-21T22:48:04 < boddax> try to replace my cheaper microscope camera
2020-04-21T22:53:46 < Thorn> crap, I'm going to need to test my firmware with bluetooth 5 but none of my smartphones support it
2020-04-21T22:56:10 < zyp> aww
2020-04-21T22:56:29 < zyp> excuse to get a new one? :p
2020-04-21T22:56:52 < Thorn> moneyed westerner's thinking
2020-04-21T22:58:28 < Thorn> let's hope I can program the stuff blindly well enough for the app developer to test it
2020-04-21T22:58:41 < zyp> when came bluetooth 5 anyway?
2020-04-21T22:58:56 < zyp> and what's different from 4?
2020-04-21T22:59:07 < Thorn> 2 Mbit phy
2020-04-21T22:59:20 < zyp> ah
2020-04-21T22:59:21 < Thorn> important because the app will send files over ble
2020-04-21T23:00:16 < Thorn> mp3 files, they will be reencoded for mono and lower bitrate & sampling freq but still
2020-04-21T23:03:50 < kaki9000> https://www.anandtech.com/show/14169/intel-launches-wifi-6-ax200-wireless-network-adapter these can be bought for less than a mobile phone price
2020-04-21T23:04:22 < kaki9000> I think I bought mine for like 30or40?
2020-04-21T23:05:36 < Steffanx> Aliexpress must have $20 phone with bt5.0
2020-04-21T23:05:52 < karlp> cue thorns' "moneyd westerners" again
2020-04-21T23:05:58 < Steffanx> Nevermind. In Russia they don't use $
2020-04-21T23:06:03 < karlp> yet somehow he's developing for bt 5 users, so .... moneyed russians?
2020-04-21T23:06:23 < kaki9000> https://www.ebay.com/sch/i.html?_from=R40&_trksid=m570.l1313&_nkw=ax200&_sacat=0
2020-04-21T23:06:38 < kaki9000> I bought mine from that germany seller
2020-04-21T23:06:41 < Steffanx> Moyened Russians are the worst. With wild animals as pets etc :
2020-04-21T23:07:07 < karlp> nice prices kaks
2020-04-21T23:09:51 < kaki9000> and it didn't work with my laptop though
2020-04-21T23:10:04 < kaki9000> I think the previous card had only usb or so
2020-04-21T23:10:11 < Thorn> Steffanx the cheetah died last week
2020-04-21T23:10:11 < kaki9000> no pci-e lines or something
2020-04-21T23:10:49 < Thorn> Steffanx https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VCPAoop_QUI
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2020-04-21T23:14:12 < kaki9000> is there frames for standard LCD displays for enclosure installation?
2020-04-21T23:14:16 < kaki9000> 2x16 lcd ie.
2020-04-21T23:14:21 -!- kaki9000 [575d1b57@87-93-27-87.bb.dnainternet.fi] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
2020-04-21T23:15:43 < Steffanx> How/why did it die Thorn?
2020-04-21T23:15:58 < Thorn> advanced lung cancer
2020-04-21T23:16:21 < Steffanx> onho, coronizzled.
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2020-04-21T23:25:14 < kakimir> ah yews
2020-04-21T23:25:21 < kakimir> it's called a bezel
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2020-04-21T23:30:27 < Steffanx> yw
2020-04-21T23:35:05 -!- Streaker [~Streaker@unaffiliated/streaker] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer]
2020-04-21T23:42:30 < catphish> i'm grumpy that i have to decode this synchronous serial line in software, hopefully EXTI and just reading a bit at a time will work okay, hopefully i can just drop the bits into a buffer using the interrupt, and pretend from then on it was done in hardware :)
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2020-04-21T23:43:39 < Thorn> catphish why not use usart
2020-04-21T23:44:01 -!- piezoid [~piezoid@85-168-247-211.rev.numericable.fr] has quit [Quit: leaving...]
2020-04-21T23:44:15 < catphish> it can't handle words with 4 data bits, one parity bit, and no start/stop bits
2020-04-21T23:44:54 < catphish> "too weird for asic"
2020-04-21T23:45:09 < Thorn> ok then spi, iirc in some stm32 it should work with 5 bit frames
2020-04-21T23:45:44 < catphish> not mine as far as i can tell, and spi would need a way to mark the start of the data, which is kinds missing here, it just starts with the first data bit
2020-04-21T23:46:15 < catphish> on the plus side, doing it in software lends itself to adding wiegand support later
2020-04-21T23:46:29 < catphish> which is even weirder (though maybe marginally simpler)
2020-04-21T23:46:41 -!- ohsix [~ohsix@bc175210.bendcable.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds]
2020-04-21T23:47:28 < Thorn> if all else fails you can receive 8-bit spi frames and untangle them in software
2020-04-21T23:47:48 < catphish> i did consider that
2020-04-21T23:49:05 < catphish> here's the data stream https://i.imgur.com/yQdaHIA.png - it always starts with 1,1,0,1,0 and ends with 1,1,1,1,1 (followed by a 5 bit checksum)
2020-04-21T23:49:28 < catphish> i'm fairly convinced that using a fast EXTI will be less messy that trying to use SPI
2020-04-21T23:52:30 < Thorn> it's better to have an interrupt every 8 bits than every bit
2020-04-21T23:53:06 < zyp> not if you only get seven bits and gets stuck waiting for the next message
2020-04-21T23:56:23 < catphish> hopefully i can handle the interrupt rate
2020-04-21T23:58:59 < catphish> my plan was that each clock would save a bit to an array and reset a timer, when the timer expires, process the data
2020-04-21T23:59:19 < Thorn> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yxHDrDkUwIo
--- Day changed Wed Apr 22 2020
2020-04-22T00:00:01 < catphish> what's it do?
2020-04-22T00:00:34 < Thorn> cost a ton 
2020-04-22T00:01:43 < zyp> hmm
2020-04-22T00:01:56 < zyp> I need to buy some new hard drives soon
2020-04-22T00:02:38 < Thorn> https://www.intel.com/content/dam/www/programmable/us/en/pdfs/literature/hb/max2/max2_mii51016.pdf
2020-04-22T00:02:41 < catphish> i need to buy a DS1054Z
2020-04-22T00:03:13 < zyp> I've been a bit sloppy with maintenance lately, raid currently got one drive missing, one drive dead and now apparently one drive dying
2020-04-22T00:03:29 < catphish> that's quite concerning
2020-04-22T00:03:44 < catphish> on the pus side, yay for raid
2020-04-22T00:03:48 < catphish> *plus
2020-04-22T00:03:52 < catphish> you didn't have to reinstall
2020-04-22T00:03:56 < catphish> thrice
2020-04-22T00:04:01 < zyp> the missing drive is because the replacement drive I got for the previous drive that died was so slow it bogged the entire thing down, so I ripped it out to get it running reasonably again
2020-04-22T00:04:44 < zyp> the dead drive I've known about for a while, just been too lazy to deal with, sent a complaint to the store now
2020-04-22T00:05:04 < zyp> and the dying drive is out of warranty - oldest surviving drive in the array
2020-04-22T00:06:10 < zyp> it's one out of the 14 drives I bought in 2013 that haven't died yet :p
2020-04-22T00:08:46 < Cracki> catphish, if you're worried about interrupt rates, timer input capture, dma the value to some buffer, handle buffer after several elements
2020-04-22T00:09:40 < catphish> just timer dma at some multiple of the expected bit rate?
2020-04-22T00:09:43 < Cracki> or take the clock pulse to nudge a dma read from the port
2020-04-22T00:10:04 < catphish> can you externally trigger a dma?
2020-04-22T00:10:12 < zyp> so anyway, what affordable 3TB drives have good performance nowadays?
2020-04-22T00:10:35 < Cracki> dunno, if not directly, you can clock a timer from external, and the timer can trigger dma
2020-04-22T00:10:46 < Thorn> I looked at 4TB drives, they all cost more than an average Chinese smartphone :/
2020-04-22T00:10:47 < Cracki> likely you can do this directly
2020-04-22T00:11:04 < zyp> the array originally consisted of ST3000DM001 drives, but now also got three ST3000DM002 and one ST3000DM008
2020-04-22T00:11:18 < zyp> they are all fast and nice until they die
2020-04-22T00:11:25 < Cracki> if you want performance, consider if shingled shit bothers you
2020-04-22T00:11:37 < Cracki> not a problem for reads but for writes, I hear
2020-04-22T00:11:52 < zyp> last year I got a ST3000DM007 to replace one drive, and it was totally awful
2020-04-22T00:11:57 < catphish> zyp: https://www.scan.co.uk/products/4tb-wd-ultrastar-dc-hc310-0b35950-35-enterprise-hdd-sata-iii-6gb-s-7200rpm-256mb-cache-512n-ncq-oem
2020-04-22T00:12:00 < catphish> i like those
2020-04-22T00:12:07 < Cracki> fast meaning access time? 7k2 takes a bit more power and is louder
2020-04-22T00:12:35 < zyp> I'm not sure what fast means, but the ST3000DM007 didn't play along with the other drives in the array at all
2020-04-22T00:12:38 < Thorn> isn't 7200 rpm also more likely to die of mechanical failure?
2020-04-22T00:13:11 < zyp> I don't care how likely they are to die, I got five year warranty-ish anyway
2020-04-22T00:13:16 < catphish> HGST don't seem to do a 3TB data centre drive
2020-04-22T00:13:34 < Cracki> the toshibas (#1 and 3) seems to be liked https://geizhals.de/?cat=hde7s&sort=r&xf=1541_3000%7E958_3000
2020-04-22T00:14:00 < Cracki> #1 and 4 even
2020-04-22T00:14:19 < catphish> the only seagates i've bought were 1TB 7200RPM SAS, they were rock solid
2020-04-22T00:14:56 < Cracki> that wd blue seems to be favored too. lots of reviews and high rating.
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2020-04-22T00:15:03 < Cracki> 5k4 tho
2020-04-22T00:15:12 < zyp> I don't want 5k4
2020-04-22T00:15:14 < catphish> i would totally avoid WD non-enterprise :(
2020-04-22T00:15:23 < catphish> those have failed endlessly for me
2020-04-22T00:15:40 < Cracki> he's got a raid, shit is expected to fail :D
2020-04-22T00:15:53 < catphish> yeah, but its annoying
2020-04-22T00:16:04 < Thorn> Chernobyl, April 2020 https://vk.com/wall215188111_587
2020-04-22T00:16:16 < catphish> theres a difference between being prepared and actually expecting it
2020-04-22T00:16:18 < zyp> I've had 17 drives die so far in this 16-drive array, I'm used to drives dying :p
2020-04-22T00:16:49 < Cracki> well that leaves this table with 5 options before price jumps from 25-30 to 40+ EUR/TB
2020-04-22T00:17:05 < zyp> 18 if I count the dying one, I'd take it out of the array now if it weren't missing two drives already
2020-04-22T00:17:30 < Cracki> three toshibas, a seagate, and some noname
2020-04-22T00:18:01 < Cracki> maybe look into 4 TB drives too
2020-04-22T00:18:49 < zyp> I'm not very interested in sticking a 4TB drive in a 16x3TB array
2020-04-22T00:19:08 < Ultrasauce> lol you got bitten by the st3000s too huh
2020-04-22T00:19:21 < zyp> yeah
2020-04-22T00:19:26 < Cracki> what's the long term plan, eventually say enough and do a new array, or grow it gradually
2020-04-22T00:20:09 < zyp> long term plan? the array is sitting at 46% utilization after 7 years, I don't expect it to fill up any time soon
2020-04-22T00:20:33 < Cracki> good point
2020-04-22T00:21:06 < zyp> the long long term plan is a loose idea that I can probably rebuild a new array with 12TB drives or something else significantly larger than 3TB
2020-04-22T00:21:25 < Steffanx> Stopped downloading porn?
2020-04-22T00:22:07 < Cracki> before that happens I hope they got something better than HDDs on the market that doesn't cost quite as much as SSD
2020-04-22T00:22:07 < zyp> actually yeah, mostly just pornhub and friends these days
2020-04-22T00:22:08 < catphish> i have hundreds of drives, and no data to store :)
2020-04-22T00:22:51 < Thorn> my array is full, I keep finding ways to "optimize" things to cram new stuff in
2020-04-22T00:22:52 < zyp> catphish, then I have a solution to both our problems, just send me some 3TB drives you don't need :)
2020-04-22T00:23:05 < catphish> i have no 3TB
2020-04-22T00:23:08 < Steffanx> You can host images for blaxter, catphish 
2020-04-22T00:23:16 < zyp> Thorn, I did that with the old 6x1.5TB array I had before
2020-04-22T00:23:43 < catphish> lots of 2TB about to be decommissioned, lots of 1TB already decommissioned, and a couple of hundred 500GB waiting to be shredded :)
2020-04-22T00:24:03 < zyp> and then I ran out of patience for that and set up the new 16-drive array, recycling the 1.5TB drives so it started out as a 16x1.5TB array with half 3TB drives
2020-04-22T00:24:16 < zyp> which I eventually upgraded with 3TB drives
2020-04-22T00:24:23 < catphish> idk what i'd store though
2020-04-22T00:24:35 < catphish> never really hoarded media
2020-04-22T00:24:55 < zyp> I just don't like deleting stuff
2020-04-22T00:25:15 < Cracki> a couple hundred?
2020-04-22T00:25:23 < Cracki> sounds commercial
2020-04-22T00:25:38 < catphish> Cracki: approx 200 iirc
2020-04-22T00:25:46 < catphish> yes, commercial
2020-04-22T00:25:50 < catphish> hence shredding
2020-04-22T00:26:03 < catphish> not that they'd be much use for anything else
2020-04-22T00:26:10 < Cracki> buy the shredder or lease/rent it?
2020-04-22T00:26:16 < catphish> the larger ones i will keep in case they're usful
2020-04-22T00:26:22 < Cracki> or do you trust some service to cart them off and shred them elsewhere
2020-04-22T00:26:27 < catphish> just pay someone to come and destroy them
2020-04-22T00:27:06 < Cracki> those poor magnets
2020-04-22T00:27:19 < Cracki> oh well, we'll master alchemy soon
2020-04-22T00:27:22 < catphish> i imagine they have some recyclable bits
2020-04-22T00:28:42 < catphish> my favourite drives are 1.2TB 10k 2.5"
2020-04-22T00:28:47 < Steffanx> Are they yours or does your boss owns them now catphish  ? :P
2020-04-22T00:29:12 < catphish> Steffanx: they're not worth enough for anyone to care
2020-04-22T00:29:35 < catphish> but they're not mine unless i steal them
2020-04-22T00:29:54 < Cracki> I think I had 10k drives once. WD Raptor, before SSDs could be trusted. I love their sound
2020-04-22T00:30:18 < Thorn> they take a long time to spin up
2020-04-22T00:30:59 < Cracki> I wish I could hear activity on SSDs still
2020-04-22T00:32:47 < catphish> i do love the sound of 10k drives spinning up!
2020-04-22T00:33:14 < catphish> if nobody else needs them i'll probably gather the 10k drives up into a NAS
2020-04-22T00:40:38 < zyp> hmm, wondering if I should get a HDWD130UZSVA
2020-04-22T00:40:52 < zyp> seems to be cheapest decent 3TB drive available
2020-04-22T00:41:00 < catphish> that looks like decent value!
2020-04-22T00:41:28 < catphish> not that i'd trust it
2020-04-22T00:41:48 < zyp> I don't need to trust it
2020-04-22T00:42:18 < zyp> but hey, it's not like it can be worse than ST3000DM001, right?
2020-04-22T00:42:34 < zyp> so as long as it's not slower either, I'm good
2020-04-22T00:44:26 < zyp> glancing at reviews it seems to be fast and cheap, just noisy
2020-04-22T00:44:44 < zyp> and I don't care about noise, server's sitting under the stairs, nobody can hear it anyway
2020-04-22T00:45:51 < Cracki> harry potter
2020-04-22T00:46:01 < Thorn> https://market.yandex.ru/product--zhestkii-disk-toshiba-hdwd130uzsva/44899729 multiple reports of click death
2020-04-22T00:46:26 < zyp> well, duh, it's a mechanical drive
2020-04-22T00:46:58 < Thorn> but cheap, can't deny that
2020-04-22T00:47:15 < zyp> I'm not worried about a drive dying now and then, they're sitting in a raidz3
2020-04-22T00:47:53 < kakimir> click of death
2020-04-22T00:48:04 < Cracki> under the stairs nobody can hear you click
2020-04-22T00:48:08 < zyp> if it were available locally I'd pick one up tomorrow
2020-04-22T00:48:38 < kakimir> usually at least when you buy seagate you are begging for it
2020-04-22T00:48:48 < kakimir> toshiba - wildcard - who knows
2020-04-22T00:48:58 < zyp> there's this chain that has it for cheap, but local store doesn't seem to stock many internal drives
2020-04-22T00:49:49 < zyp> and if I have to order and pay shipping I'll rather talk the store I just sent a complaint to into giving me one as a replacement for the one I complained about
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2020-04-22T00:59:59 < Steffanx> Here I fill my disk space with series automatically downloaded by sickchill. 
2020-04-22T01:00:40 < Steffanx> But I just noticed it stopped doing that. Apparently they pushed broken stuff right when I decided to update
2020-04-22T01:00:53 < Steffanx> So far the "Less rage, more chill" slogan
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2020-04-22T01:09:39 < Steffanx> The joy of open sores and it being python is win-win ofcourse :P
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2020-04-22T01:25:37 < zyp> heh, I posted up the ST3000DM007 on a marketplace for 600 NOK, already got two people wanting to come pick it up tomorrow
2020-04-22T01:25:49 < zyp> I figure I'm never gonna use it anyway
2020-04-22T01:26:23 < zyp> also, I originally bought it last year on the same marketplace, thought I paid 650, looked back through the logs now and it was 550
2020-04-22T01:26:38 < zyp> so apparently I'm earning 50 NOK on it :p
2020-04-22T01:26:52 < Cracki> how is norway faring with oil futures costing negative money
2020-04-22T01:27:08 < Cracki> (us oil that is)
2020-04-22T01:28:05 < zyp> NOK value dropped pretty steeply some weeks ago, made my japan trip a bit more expensive than I budgeted
2020-04-22T01:28:26 < kakimir> full mask should have a poking stick
2020-04-22T01:28:27 < Cracki> for negative oil price you could buy tanks and store it
2020-04-22T01:28:33 < Cracki> if you have space to put it
2020-04-22T01:28:54 < kakimir> I put a mask on and immediatelly need to scratch my nose
2020-04-22T01:29:00 < Cracki> that's their problem, their storage is full, they need the shit gone because they can't shut off production
2020-04-22T01:29:01 < zyp> OTOH the arcin boards that I sell are priced in USD, so I'm currently earning more than usual on them :p
2020-04-22T01:29:03 < jadew> they ran out of storage for oil?
2020-04-22T01:29:09 < Cracki> heh
2020-04-22T01:29:13 < Cracki> https://edition.cnn.com/2020/04/21/investing/oil-prices/index.html
2020-04-22T01:29:17 < Cracki> says so there. demand is down.
2020-04-22T01:29:25 < jadew> damn...
2020-04-22T01:29:25 < zyp> and apparently everybody are bored sitting at home because I've had more sales than usual lately
2020-04-22T01:29:29 < Cracki> this is like the hospital situation.
2020-04-22T01:29:41 < Cracki> slight dip in demand, suddenly huge pileup
2020-04-22T01:30:07 < Cracki> some systems are rather sensitive to changes in flow
2020-04-22T01:30:10 < zyp> so overall I think I'm coming out around net zero despite the exchange rate changes
2020-04-22T01:30:22 < Cracki> what do you have to sell? I'm bored
2020-04-22T01:31:24 < zyp> https://bin.jvnv.net/file/QTIae.JPG <- these
2020-04-22T01:31:42 < zyp> they go into arcade style game controllers
2020-04-22T01:32:01 < Cracki> much header
2020-04-22T01:32:08 < Cracki> i see fagconnect :D
2020-04-22T01:32:14 < zyp> e.g. like these: https://www.gamo2.com/en/index.php?dispatch=categories.view&category_id=254
2020-04-22T01:32:14 < Cracki> nice, cortex m beside
2020-04-22T01:32:55 < Cracki> so... buttons to spi
2020-04-22T01:33:00 < Cracki> and leds
2020-04-22T01:33:04 < zyp> no, USB
2020-04-22T01:33:09 < Cracki> ah
2020-04-22T01:33:12 < zyp> the SPI shit can do playstation IO emulation
2020-04-22T01:36:00 < zyp> https://bin.jvnv.net/file/Cw2NQ.JPG
2020-04-22T01:36:40 < Steffanx> In the end its all HID right?
2020-04-22T01:36:58 < zyp> not playstation
2020-04-22T01:37:03 < zyp> https://bin.jvnv.net/file/Cw2NQ.JPG
2020-04-22T01:37:32 < Steffanx> On the USB side :)
2020-04-22T01:37:40 < zyp> yeah, that's all HID
2020-04-22T01:37:45 < kakimir> a lot of same shit that I have on my desks
2020-04-22T01:38:13 < zyp> a bit different modes though, default firmware is a gamepad, but there's also keyboard emulation to work with some games
2020-04-22T01:38:36 < Steffanx> Even a vhs player kakimir?
2020-04-22T01:38:37 < kakimir> same scope, turnigy remote transmitter, some shitty china yagi antenna, even some BLDC motors for hobbyking
2020-04-22T01:38:37 < zyp> and I talked to somebody recently who wanted to try modifying the descriptors to do xinput instead
2020-04-22T01:38:55 < kakimir> that antenna is a waste of time zyp
2020-04-22T01:38:55 < zyp> kakimir, the DS1042C? not DS1052E?
2020-04-22T01:39:07 < kakimir> no I have DS1052E
2020-04-22T01:39:12 < zyp> yeah, I don't
2020-04-22T01:39:19 < kakimir> what is that anyway?
2020-04-22T01:39:28 < zyp> what's what?
2020-04-22T01:39:31 < Steffanx> Hah, the antenna works, but its not great. Worked for me at least
2020-04-22T01:39:41 < Steffanx> Such WiFi, such range
2020-04-22T01:40:00 < kakimir> 1042
2020-04-22T01:40:08 < zyp> the generation before 1052
2020-04-22T01:40:24 < zyp> bought the scope like 9 years ago
2020-04-22T01:40:38 < kakimir> yeah
2020-04-22T01:40:44 < zyp> no
2020-04-22T01:40:49 < zyp> 12 years ago, 2008
2020-04-22T01:40:54 < kakimir> yeah
2020-04-22T01:41:06 < kakimir> I think mine is 2009-2010 or so
2020-04-22T01:41:15 < zyp> photo itself is probably 6-7 years old
2020-04-22T01:43:58 < kakimir> did you build a dance controller?
2020-04-22T01:44:23 < zyp> no, but I bought one in like 2007
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2020-04-22T01:44:30 < kakimir> me too
2020-04-22T01:44:44 < zyp> https://bin.jvnv.net/file/wwqFK.jpg <- desk's a little bit tidier now :)
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2020-04-22T01:45:31 < zyp> scope's sitting where it is because I picked it up at the office the other day, and haven't found a permanent place for it yet
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2020-04-22T01:46:16 < Thorn> out of 51 patients put on ventilators, 3 taken off, 25 still on https://www.facebook.com/permalink.php?story_fbid=2714854585413847&id=100006679967481
2020-04-22T01:46:48 < zyp> and the remaining 23?
2020-04-22T01:47:08 < zyp> okay, guess that's the joke
2020-04-22T01:48:32 < kakimir> zyp: and the shiet is generally more pro it seems
2020-04-22T01:49:47 < zyp> dunno, don't really think I've got much new pro tools since then
2020-04-22T01:50:04 < kakimir> it's not the tools
2020-04-22T01:50:14 < kakimir> and that pile of paper
2020-04-22T01:50:17 < Steffanx> You also have the noisy tenma.
2020-04-22T01:50:26 < kakimir> I had similar in my jubb
2020-04-22T01:50:26 < zyp> yeah, I like it
2020-04-22T01:50:30 < Steffanx> Why does that thing have to be so noisy
2020-04-22T01:50:39 < kakimir> in my kakilab I have moved paper piles to sofa
2020-04-22T01:50:53 < Steffanx> The fan is like always on. And seems to be load controlled, not temperature controlled 
2020-04-22T01:50:57 < kakimir> paper doesn't belong to desk but to sofa!
2020-04-22T01:51:01 < zyp> the pile of papers are STM32G0 pinout and AF tables
2020-04-22T01:51:17 < zyp> for the pmod board I did last week
2020-04-22T01:51:31 < Thorn> STM32PaperCube
2020-04-22T01:51:32 < zyp> now I'm using the back side for other notes
2020-04-22T01:51:53 < zyp> was drawing some possible switch/mux setups last night
2020-04-22T01:52:06 < Steffanx> Even have a special seat for the kid? :D
2020-04-22T01:52:18 < zyp> yeah, need to have a dedicated scope operator
2020-04-22T01:52:19 < kakimir> and a toy
2020-04-22T01:56:10 < zyp> Thorn, cube is overrated, this is how I do pinmapping: https://bin.jvnv.net/file/3ezrP.jpg
2020-04-22T01:57:39 < kakimir> https://drive.google.com/file/d/1N5j7RkjrOajF17vsO3cYVPMAneMP1r7D/view?usp=sharing one innovation done
2020-04-22T01:57:48 < kakimir> embed cheap potentiometer
2020-04-22T01:58:08 < zyp> pink are pins that exist in the relevant package, yellow are interesting functions, the *CC* notes are the UCPD pins, they are analog functions and thus not in the AF table
2020-04-22T01:59:14 < zyp> and the small colored marks on the package pinout are 5V tolerant pins (all except 2), ADC pins and I2C FM+ pins
2020-04-22T02:01:37 < zyp> part of what I did there was figuring out what combination of four pins would give me the possibility of mapping them as either uart, i2c and spi, and cube isn't overly helpful with that
2020-04-22T02:02:15 < Cracki> that looks familiar
2020-04-22T02:02:19 < kakimir> that sounds like exactly what I would use cube for
2020-04-22T02:02:21 < kakimir> if I ever used it
2020-04-22T02:02:23 < Cracki> I'd love for cube to be better in that regard
2020-04-22T02:02:42 < Cracki> maybe I'm blind but I didn't see any way to list the possible pin mappings for a given peripheral
2020-04-22T02:03:05 < Cracki> I could only poke around on the package and try to assign a pin I found to have its function, which implied all the other pins
2020-04-22T02:03:07 < zyp> IIRC you press a peripheral and the possible pins get highlighted
2020-04-22T02:03:14 < Cracki> uh trying!
2020-04-22T02:03:16 < zyp> or something like that
2020-04-22T02:03:20 < zyp> been years since I tried cube
2020-04-22T02:03:39 < Cracki> 4 and 5 are different for sure, I never handled v4
2020-04-22T02:03:57 < Cracki> it has some views I have dismissed so far
2020-04-22T02:04:28 < Cracki> hm no, I don't see any way to click a peripheral and have it highlight pins
2020-04-22T02:04:39 < Cracki> it colors me conflicts but that's all
2020-04-22T02:04:50 < zyp> I'm not gonna use any generated output from cube anyway, so for a qfn28 I find it more efficient to just go directly from paper notes to schematic
2020-04-22T02:04:58 < Cracki> ye
2020-04-22T02:05:43 < zyp> but for the larger packages there might be some value going through cube to validate that the functions exist where you think they do
2020-04-22T02:06:19 < zyp> I'd probably still use paper as well
2020-04-22T02:07:12 < kakimir> it's the secret for good night sleep
2020-04-22T02:07:25 < kakimir> double checking
2020-04-22T02:07:31 < kakimir> cross referencing
2020-04-22T02:07:40 < kakimir> that gives the best sleep
2020-04-22T02:07:41 < Cracki> I do too, or at least working memory... most pins are already beside each other so that helps. trouble is then, if the package is already decided, how to squeeze the most possibilities out of it
2020-04-22T02:07:59 < zyp> exactly
2020-04-22T02:08:08 < Cracki> i.e. assigning random GPIO duty to the dumbest pins, keeping special functions together to reuse
2020-04-22T02:08:32 < zyp> for low density stuff I don't bother with neither paper nor cube
2020-04-22T02:09:31 < zyp> https://bin.jvnv.net/file/crJLt.JPG <- like this
2020-04-22T02:10:18 < zyp> usb, swd are on fixed pins, nfc chip is on the closest spi periph (IIRC) and the rest are plain gpio, just picked whatever was closest
2020-04-22T02:11:27 < zyp> or https://bin.jvnv.net/file/hjk3A.png
2020-04-22T02:11:35 < zyp> that's usb, swd, one uart and one gpio
2020-04-22T02:11:46 < ds2> p
2020-04-22T02:12:34 < zyp> and it's still qfp48 because qfp32 is just as big, just with lower pitch
2020-04-22T02:12:38 < Cracki> shit I could have moved some pins to reveal an SPI oh well :D
2020-04-22T02:13:03 < Cracki> roomy designs
2020-04-22T02:13:13 < zyp> yeah
2020-04-22T02:13:51 < zyp> https://bin.jvnv.net/file/CgTwR.png <- the pmod on the other hand is kinda crowded and using _all_ pins
2020-04-22T02:14:35 < zyp> https://bin.jvnv.net/file/3b50p.png (before adding the SBU lines to the two spare header pins)
2020-04-22T02:15:57 < kakimir> https://drive.google.com/file/d/15LsoT0TTcTvw7TjrrSjIukqmFNoEped-/view?usp=sharing zyp
2020-04-22T02:16:07 < kakimir> yikes!
2020-04-22T02:16:24 < Cracki> lol
2020-04-22T02:16:29 < Steffanx> Kakiview
2020-04-22T02:16:32 < zyp> hmm, not sure if that is final layout
2020-04-22T02:16:37 < Cracki> how did it allow that
2020-04-22T02:16:56 < Cracki> or are those pins on the big one supposed to be one net?
2020-04-22T02:17:13 < zyp> yeah, that's power
2020-04-22T02:17:24 < zyp> note how it goes to all the caps
2020-04-22T02:17:34 < Cracki> ic
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2020-04-22T02:19:04 < zyp> hmm, don't have any photos of the finished board
2020-04-22T02:19:54 < zyp> oh, yeah, looks like that's the final design
2020-04-22T02:21:32 < zyp> https://bin.jvnv.net/file/fYTal.jpg
2020-04-22T02:22:01 < zyp> can't say it looks like it matters though
2020-04-22T02:22:13 < Cracki> lol https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aGIQXysiet8
2020-04-22T02:22:45 < kakimir> it's nice
2020-04-22T02:22:46 < zyp> oh, there's one difference, I switched usb sockets
2020-04-22T02:22:51 < kakimir> I noticed
2020-04-22T02:23:23 < kakimir> I disliked really much how non-final version broke the gnd outline there
2020-04-22T02:24:34 < Steffanx> This must be a board by Mr. D. No one else does sharp silk like that
2020-04-22T02:24:42 < kakimir> that is some thick hasl though?
2020-04-22T02:24:52 < zyp> it's not hasl, it's reflowed paste
2020-04-22T02:24:59 < kakimir> it's like no paste needed
2020-04-22T02:25:08 < kakimir> just drop them there and bake
2020-04-22T02:25:33 < zyp> this is on a panel along with another design and the other design is assembled, so this board also got stencilled
2020-04-22T02:25:40 < kakimir> ah
2020-04-22T02:25:52 < kakimir> null>
2020-04-22T02:26:38 < zyp> the other design is the nfc readers, I wanted a new batch of nfc readers and it was cheaper to just reuse first batch panel layout and stencil rather than repanelizing
2020-04-22T02:27:04 < zyp> so this is just a blank I throw away after depanelizing
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2020-04-22T03:03:22 < catphish> not sure if i'm reading but there seems to be a huge error in this stm32 ethernet documentation :(
2020-04-22T03:03:42 < catphish> The transmit checksum offload supports two types of checksum calculation and insertion. This checksum can be controlled for each frame by setting the CIC bits (Bits 28:27 in TDES1, described in TDES1: Transmit descriptor Word1).
2020-04-22T03:04:58 < zyp> it's a synopsys ethernet core, so I'd expect the ethernet chapter in the RM to be copypasted from synopsys
2020-04-22T03:05:09 < zyp> at least that's how it is for the dwc_otg core :)
2020-04-22T03:05:40 < catphish> https://imgur.com/a/rFsfjwt
2020-04-22T03:06:09 < zyp> let me open the RM and take a look
2020-04-22T03:06:40 < catphish> i'd enjoy that :)
2020-04-22T03:06:51 < catphish> i think the flag *should* be in TDES0
2020-04-22T03:07:06 < catphish> oh, it is
2020-04-22T03:07:31 < catphish> TDES0 Bits 23:22 CIC: Checksum insertion control
2020-04-22T03:07:42 < zyp> yeah
2020-04-22T03:07:52 < catphish> not where it says, but there anyway :)
2020-04-22T03:08:04 < catphish> thanks for listening :)
2020-04-22T03:08:10 < zyp> dwc_otg docs also had some bits that were in the wrong places
2020-04-22T03:08:23 < catphish> for some reason i didn't see that the first time i looked
2020-04-22T03:08:36 < zyp> I think some of it can be customized when instancing the core, and some probably varies between core revisions
2020-04-22T03:08:46 < zyp> and then people miss stuff when copypasting docs
2020-04-22T03:10:29 < catphish> makes sense
2020-04-22T03:11:04 < catphish> unfortunately what does seem to be correct is that one has to enable "enhanced" descriptors to use this feature
2020-04-22T03:11:20 < zyp> is that a problem?
2020-04-22T03:12:27 < catphish> no, it's just more code to write :)
2020-04-22T03:12:42 < catphish> probably only a small change to a struct though
2020-04-22T03:12:50 < zyp> you could alternatively just write your own checksumming code :p
2020-04-22T03:13:40 < zyp> speaking of, I need to do the crc blocks for my usb core soon
2020-04-22T03:14:32 < catphish> wrong again
2020-04-22T03:14:40 < catphish> i just had to enable store and forward more
2020-04-22T03:14:42 < catphish> *mode
2020-04-22T03:14:54 < catphish> Bit 21 TSF: Transmit store and forward
2020-04-22T03:15:08 < catphish> turned that on too an all my checksums are magically filled
2020-04-22T03:15:11 < zyp> store and forward sounds like a switch feature to me, not MAC
2020-04-22T03:15:13 < zyp> what does it do?
2020-04-22T03:15:30 < catphish> it stores the whole frame in the MAC before sending it
2020-04-22T03:15:35 < catphish> (you can pass in fragments)
2020-04-22T03:15:47 < catphish> its kinda moot to me since i always pass it a full frame
2020-04-22T03:16:02 < catphish> but it can start transmitting before you've provided all the data
2020-04-22T03:16:32 < zyp> right, I thought the whole reason DMA is mandatory is because it didn't have enough hardware buffering
2020-04-22T03:17:14 < catphish> i'm not sure about that
2020-04-22T03:17:42 < catphish> maybe it does all this in main memory
2020-04-22T03:17:50 < catphish> (with DMA)
2020-04-22T03:17:57 < zyp> not unless you have allocated it any
2020-04-22T03:18:21 < catphish> checksum doesn't need much extra memory
2020-04-22T03:18:35 < catphish> i meant it might do it in place
2020-04-22T03:18:44 < zyp> hmm, does the checksum also cover data after the checksum field itself?
2020-04-22T03:18:48 < catphish> ie 2 passes of the data with dma, idk
2020-04-22T03:18:52 < catphish> yes it does
2020-04-22T03:19:04 < zyp> ah, then of course it couldn't just pipeline it
2020-04-22T03:19:34 < catphish> also, you can't use checksumming in all cases anyway
2020-04-22T03:19:40 < catphish> maybe it doesn't support fragments
2020-04-22T03:19:49 < catphish> only my approach of sending whole frame at once
2020-04-22T03:19:56 < catphish> i didnt check because it doesnt matter to me
2020-04-22T03:20:44 < catphish> PING 10.99.1.2 (10.99.1.2) 56(84) bytes of data.
2020-04-22T03:20:44 < catphish> 64 bytes from 10.99.1.2: icmp_seq=1 ttl=255 time=0.300 ms
2020-04-22T03:20:46 < catphish> yay
2020-04-22T03:21:16 < zyp> do you do ARP for responses?
2020-04-22T03:21:20 < catphish> yes
2020-04-22T03:21:30 < catphish> just arp and ping so far
2020-04-22T03:21:32 < zyp> I just reply to source mac :)
2020-04-22T03:21:42 < catphish> i do too
2020-04-22T03:21:52 < zyp> then you don't do ARP for responses :p
2020-04-22T03:21:59 < catphish> i don't do arp requests :)
2020-04-22T03:22:06 < catphish> but i have to to arp responses
2020-04-22T03:22:13 < catphish> else nothing will send me data
2020-04-22T03:22:20 < zyp> I said ARP for responses, not ARP responses
2020-04-22T03:22:26 < catphish> oh
2020-04-22T03:22:34 < catphish> i understand now
2020-04-22T03:22:36 < catphish> no :)
2020-04-22T03:22:50 < catphish> seemed thoroughly pointless :)
2020-04-22T03:23:12 < zyp> until you need to do anything but reply to a request
2020-04-22T03:23:24 < catphish> with that said, there's a desire to run this with a "cloud" controller
2020-04-22T03:23:26 < zyp> I've also got monitoring packets, currently sending those to a hardcoded mac :p
2020-04-22T03:23:37 < catphish> which means 1) security 2) active sending
2020-04-22T03:24:24 < catphish> not that an arp request is hugely difficult
2020-04-22T03:24:33 < catphish> but one one thing at a time
2020-04-22T03:26:49 < catphish> very primitive right now https://paste.ubuntu.com/p/MfPQrxB34j/
2020-04-22T03:27:09 < catphish> but hopefully i can make things more modular once it works
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2020-04-22T03:29:44 < zyp> looks pretty similar to my code :)
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2020-04-22T03:36:51 < machinehum> join ##stm21
2020-04-22T03:37:12 < machinehum> Oh shit, now you guys know my secret channel
2020-04-22T03:37:23 < catphish> i'll keep the secret
2020-04-22T03:37:56 < aandrew> lol
2020-04-22T03:38:47 < machinehum> Where me and all the other hardware ardueno devs hangouts and talk about how 8bit micros will be around forever
2020-04-22T03:39:00 < machinehum> + AVR freaks
2020-04-22T03:39:15 < karlp> I nee dpermission for kaki's drive?
2020-04-22T03:39:34 < kakinull> file removed
2020-04-22T03:40:10 < aandrew> well I just did order a dozen ATTINY25s...
2020-04-22T03:41:09 < kakinull> karlp: I nowdays remove all crap after use in drive
2020-04-22T03:41:22 < catphish> ah, gotta learn how to save stuff to stm32 flash now
2020-04-22T03:41:32 < catphish> hopefully this isn't crazy difficult
2020-04-22T03:41:47 < kakinull> maybe they should do thing that pastebin does
2020-04-22T03:41:58 < zyp> catphish, https://cgit.jvnv.net/arcin/tree/arcin/configloader.h?h=conf
2020-04-22T03:42:15 < catphish> can you write to memory mapped flash?
2020-04-22T03:42:15 -!- zz_ka6sox is now known as ka6sox
2020-04-22T03:42:58 < kakinull> delay after which the file.. *puff* Google: if you are listening please consider this feature
2020-04-22T03:43:08 < catphish> zyp: reading now, thanks
2020-04-22T03:43:42 < zyp> this is for F3, your flash might be different by a smaller or greater amount :)
2020-04-22T03:43:53 < zyp> but the general idea tends to remain the same
2020-04-22T03:45:59 < zyp> this is doing 16-bit writes, f4 will probably do 32-bit writes
2020-04-22T03:46:50 < zyp> and there's some caches and pipelines that should be flushed after writing before reading
2020-04-22T03:47:23 < zyp> I don't bother with that because I only read config after reset, so the config tool asks for a full reset after writing
2020-04-22T03:47:47 < zyp> but you might want to take a different approach :)
2020-04-22T03:49:51 < catphish> i will only be using flash to restore ram after a reset (a backup basically)
2020-04-22T03:50:04 < catphish> so should only need to read after rese
2020-04-22T03:50:07 < catphish> *reset
2020-04-22T03:50:09 < zyp> for what purpose?
2020-04-22T03:50:20 < zyp> have you considered using the backupram instead?
2020-04-22T03:51:09 < zyp> f4 has a ram block that can be powered by vbat, so you can just throw on a coin cell or a supercap and you'll have nonvolatile ram
2020-04-22T03:52:01 < zyp> the question is how often you'd update the backup
2020-04-22T03:52:19 < catphish> i had not considered that
2020-04-22T03:52:20 < zyp> and what the consequence of losing the state would be
2020-04-22T03:52:52 < catphish> essentially it's just a backup of config, which is stored in ram too
2020-04-22T03:53:12 < zyp> so effectively what my configloader is doing?
2020-04-22T03:53:14 < catphish> so any time new config is pushed, its also written to flash to load at reboot
2020-04-22T03:53:21 < Mangy_Dog> Think the models done now https://youtu.be/ObcUnLt66GU
2020-04-22T03:53:27 < catphish> i think so
2020-04-22T03:53:28 < zyp> aha
2020-04-22T03:53:42 < catphish> but no need to reset after a config change, because it's live in ram first
2020-04-22T03:53:48 < zyp> you should see the config system I use for workstuff
2020-04-22T03:54:17 < zyp> for workstuff I store records in flash
2020-04-22T03:55:05 < zyp> flash is generally written one way per bit and the other way per page, typically write is 1 -> 0 and erase is 0 -> 1
2020-04-22T03:55:33 < zyp> which means that while you can only erase a whole page, you can append to unwritten sections of one multiple times
2020-04-22T03:55:43 < zyp> so every time I change a parameter, I append a record
2020-04-22T03:55:59 < zyp> a record contains parameter number and value
2020-04-22T03:56:13 < catphish> basically there are 2 kinds of data in this application 1) config, a list of who is allowed to open a door, a 1KB block of card numbers, that can be pushed by a server, written to ram and flash, pretty simple i hope 2) logs, any time someone opens a door, this will likely only be stored in ram until pushed to the server
2020-04-22T03:56:51 < catphish> but storing my second kind of data in a ring in flash (much as you describe) might be a bonus
2020-04-22T03:56:59 < catphish> but probably not necessary
2020-04-22T03:57:13 < zyp> when loading the config, I just traverse the list backwards and pick the first entry for the parameter number I'm looking up
2020-04-22T03:57:20 < catphish> since the server will likely always be available, and a power failure is almost impossible
2020-04-22T03:57:21 < zyp> i.e. the most recently written one
2020-04-22T03:57:50 < zyp> in your case I'd do it differently
2020-04-22T03:58:17 < catphish> i'm just looking at the erase write process anyway, it's a pretty simple case for my config
2020-04-22T03:58:20 < zyp> I wouldn't bother storing card numbers in ram at all, just keep them in flash
2020-04-22T03:58:39 < catphish> oh yeah, thats a good idea
2020-04-22T03:59:08 < zyp> both all ones and all zeroes are invalid card numbers, all ones is unwritten flash, so when you search through the list and find all ones, you're at the end of the list
2020-04-22T03:59:26 < zyp> if you need to remove a card number from the list, you can overwrite it to all zeroes
2020-04-22T03:59:49 < zyp> then you'd just skip entries with all zeroes when searching
2020-04-22T04:00:02 < catphish> honestly that feels overengineered
2020-04-22T04:00:12 < zyp> that way you can add and remove card numbers without rewriting the whole list
2020-04-22T04:00:14 < catphish> but a great way to avoid erasures
2020-04-22T04:00:17 < catphish> yeah
2020-04-22T04:00:25 < zyp> well, yeah
2020-04-22T04:00:39 < catphish> the reality though is that i'd feel more comfortable just sending a blob with the full list
2020-04-22T04:00:45 < zyp> flash is good for thousands of writes, so in practice it doesn't matter :p
2020-04-22T04:01:38 < catphish> full overwrite = no chance of a bug leaving an entry present that shouldn't be :)
2020-04-22T04:02:31 < zyp> how are you safeguarding against power loss during list update?
2020-04-22T04:02:48 < zyp> i.e. what happens if you lose power between erase and write?
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2020-04-22T04:03:43 < zyp> (I'd use two copies, erase one, write, erase the other, write)
2020-04-22T04:03:49 < catphish> well, i would imagine at boot it can check with a checksum for valid data
2020-04-22T04:03:56 < catphish> if its missing it can ask the server for new data
2020-04-22T04:04:05 < zyp> what if the server also lost power?
2020-04-22T04:04:11 < catphish> but 2 copies works
2020-04-22T04:04:18 < zyp> yeah
2020-04-22T04:04:43 < zyp> my workstuff thing uses two pages, they each start with a serial number so the code can pick the freshest
2020-04-22T04:04:56 < catphish> mine will have a serial number
2020-04-22T04:05:16 < catphish> this will also serve as a security against a reply attack pushing an old config
2020-04-22T04:05:35 < zyp> when one page fills up, it'll erase the other page and copy over the current records from the current page (to get rid of obsolete records)
2020-04-22T04:05:36 < catphish> configs will be incrementally identified and signed
2020-04-22T04:05:49 < zyp> makes sense
2020-04-22T04:06:05 < zyp> anyway, bedtime for me
2020-04-22T04:06:07 < zyp> have fun
2020-04-22T04:06:13 < catphish> yeah me to really :)
2020-04-22T04:06:20 < catphish> but i'll read this flash doc first
2020-04-22T04:06:50 < catphish> thanks"
2020-04-22T04:06:52 < catphish> !
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2020-04-22T04:21:10 < Cracki> oh he's gone. X-CUBE-EEPROM is what ST made of the principle. I don't like their code. poorly commented.
2020-04-22T04:22:01 < Cracki> not using enums when they could, #defining things that aren't used but the value is calculated wherever...
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2020-04-22T05:06:03 < englishman> zyp: chromecast + HDMI extractor working great. plus you can cast jewtube to it which you can't with dongcast audio
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2020-04-22T05:10:33 < bitmask> https://imgur.com/a/DMfA2xx
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2020-04-22T05:52:37 < emeb_mac> companion
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2020-04-22T06:46:14 < aandrew> wow, uc/os is now 100% open source
2020-04-22T06:46:16 < aandrew> https://github.com/SiliconLabs/uC-OS3
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2020-04-22T07:58:17 < jadew> how's JLC's quality these days? still shit?
2020-04-22T08:14:13 < emeb_mac> haha uc-os. mucous.
2020-04-22T08:41:09 -!- upgrdman_ is now known as upgrdman
2020-04-22T08:42:03 < upgrdman> weird bug i have. part of my FRAM gets corrupt *only after i reprogram flash* (but every time i reprogram flash). it doesn't get corrupt on power loss, or reset or normal use.
2020-04-22T08:42:25 < upgrdman> and i write to the fram once per second in a timer ISR.
2020-04-22T08:43:17 < upgrdman> to be lazy, i toggle CS high right before each write. if i drive it high right *after* each write, then my problem goes away.
2020-04-22T08:43:48 < upgrdman> i thought it would be because FRAM gets corrupt if reset while CS is low, but i can press the reset button randomly and never corrupt my FRAM
2020-04-22T08:44:41 < upgrdman> so it seems like programming while FRAM CS is low is causing my problem. but no idea why resetting the MCU while CS is low does NOT cause problems if that was the cause
2020-04-22T08:45:23 < upgrdman> hmm. time to prove the SPI pins of my FRAM while programming. maybe they glitch?
2020-04-22T08:45:26 < upgrdman> probe*
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2020-04-22T09:43:31 < antto> if the chip isn't selected they should behave, no?
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2020-04-22T10:01:38 < qyx> https://i.imgur.com/Ujmafzu.png
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2020-04-22T10:16:06 < antto> huh
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2020-04-22T10:41:43 < Thorn> T - 10h https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wSge0I7pwFI
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2020-04-22T10:56:05 < zyp> englishman, nice
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2020-04-22T12:00:46 < Thorn> so the master i2s clock generator in nrf has only a divider, therefore the frequency it can output is 32MHz / n (n = 2...125). how on earth am I supposed to obtain a clock that is a multiple of 44.1kHz from that?
2020-04-22T12:01:13 < zyp> run it as a slave?
2020-04-22T12:02:47 < zyp> fwiw even though stm32 got a dedicated PLL for I2S, good luck getting an accurate 44.1kHz from that
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2020-04-22T12:06:23 < Steffanx> Stm32 has a dedicated clock input as well
2020-04-22T12:09:37 < Steffanx> I use the PLL to get 48KHz. In theory its 0.01% of, but thats not really an issue because the mux and amplifiers are all slaved to the stm32 master
2020-04-22T12:10:58 < Mangy_Dog> whats the bare minimum of componant needed to connect a stm32f103 to swd/jtag? does it need external clock? is the power filtering really required? Does boot pins need setting? It doesnt need long term stability just quick boot up hardware ID reading maybe minimal flashing and done
2020-04-22T12:11:09 < Steffanx> Even the bluetooth module is an i2s slave.
2020-04-22T12:11:18 < zyp> Mangy_Dog, just stable enough power
2020-04-22T12:11:30 < zyp> a 3.3V supply and a couple of decoupling caps should do fine
2020-04-22T12:11:35 < Mangy_Dog> in other words can i get away with wiring the stllink direct to the chip with no componants
2020-04-22T12:11:40 < Steffanx> do you strictly need decoupling? ;)
2020-04-22T12:12:06 < zyp> Steffanx, depends on your power supply impedance, I'd guess
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2020-04-22T12:12:12 < Mangy_Dog> this is just so i can make a janky test rig with the clamp i got to see how fake my new chips are :/
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2020-04-22T12:17:40 < Mangy_Dog> so to confirm no clock needed?
2020-04-22T12:17:45 < Mangy_Dog> it will default to the internal?
2020-04-22T12:21:00 < Thorn> maybe since the data is reencoded anyway I should simply require an integer sample rate such as 12 or 16 kHz
2020-04-22T12:32:56 < Thorn> nope it doesn't give me an integer sample rate at all :/
2020-04-22T12:33:11 < Thorn> 4 MHz / 256 = 15.625 kHz for example
2020-04-22T12:33:16 < Steffanx> You do sample rate conversion in the nrf?
2020-04-22T12:35:47 < Thorn> no god forbid
2020-04-22T12:36:05 < Thorn> in a mobile app
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2020-04-22T12:40:30 < Thorn> yeah I should probably put a weird frequency xtal (12.288 MHz or whatever) on the codec and run the mcu i2s in slave mode, hopefully it will work fine that way
2020-04-22T12:44:15 < Thorn> can you have arbitrary Fs in mp3 btw?
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2020-04-22T12:44:25 < Thorn> or only a few standard ones
2020-04-22T12:46:04 < Thorn> or use a codec with a proper fractional PLL (or do they hate this stuff because hIgH jItTeR?)
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2020-04-22T13:36:52 < mawk> yes Mangy_Dog 
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2020-04-22T13:58:25 < onio> Hi all, I am developing on STM32H743zi development board. When I configure the "Manage Run-Time Environment" https://imgur.com/a/JYw6gY3 I get the Red status how do I make it go all green. The project works but I would rather not want to see the read box when I launch.
2020-04-22T14:00:53 < mawk> there's a "install missing component" button right ?
2020-04-22T14:01:00 < mawk> or is it just text
2020-04-22T14:01:11 < mawk> what about you click the resolve button ?
2020-04-22T14:02:21 < onio> mawk: Pressing the resolve button does not help. I have tried that.
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2020-04-22T14:11:46 < Thorn> stm32 i2s question: if it's running in slave mode and doesn't generate master clock does it require master clock to be supplied?
2020-04-22T14:12:03 < Thorn> because nrf i2s doesn't seem to
2020-04-22T14:12:53 < qyx> how is it possible
2020-04-22T14:13:14 < qyx> it receives and transmits data without SCL clock?
2020-04-22T14:16:21 < Thorn> there's 3 clocks in an i2s system: master, bit and l/r. nrf in slave mode inputs bit and l/r clocks but not master
2020-04-22T14:16:42 < Thorn> what I'm asking if this is reasonable in general and if stm32 is the same
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2020-04-22T14:37:50 < Mangy_Dog> jusst tested 2 chips in the clamp without a external clock
2020-04-22T14:37:57 < Mangy_Dog> both seem to be shorting internally
2020-04-22T14:38:03 < Mangy_Dog> ive douple checked my wireing
2020-04-22T14:38:14 < Mangy_Dog> all power and grounds are going where theyre suposed to
2020-04-22T14:38:48 < Mangy_Dog> when i power the chip i get around .9-1.2 amp pull on 3v
2020-04-22T14:40:36 < mawk> lol
2020-04-22T14:40:44 < mawk> it's not even clone chips, it's fake chips
2020-04-22T14:40:47 < mawk> just a resistor inside
2020-04-22T14:41:06 < mawk> or going through a protection diode
2020-04-22T14:41:40 < Mangy_Dog> or not
2020-04-22T14:41:43 < Mangy_Dog> something still isnt right
2020-04-22T14:41:51 < Mangy_Dog> i just tested one of the c6 clone chips thats shorting too
2020-04-22T14:44:34 < Mangy_Dog> ive only got power going to power pins and ground 
2020-04-22T14:44:35 < Mangy_Dog> nothing else
2020-04-22T14:44:44 < Mangy_Dog> no clock no boot pulls
2020-04-22T14:45:20 < Mangy_Dog> floating reset pin cause this?
2020-04-22T14:46:43 < emeryth> reset has internal pull up
2020-04-22T14:49:19 < mawk> did you connect the ground pad Mangy_Dog ?
2020-04-22T14:49:23 < mawk> and all the grounds in general
2020-04-22T14:49:27 < mawk> dunno if it's necessary
2020-04-22T14:58:01 < Mangy_Dog> no ground pad
2020-04-22T14:58:06 < Mangy_Dog> but yeah all the other grounds are conneccted
2020-04-22T14:58:33 < Mangy_Dog> also the short only happens when the chip is clamped
2020-04-22T14:58:48 < Mangy_Dog> ie its not the breadboard internally shorting or the clamps pcb
2020-04-22T14:59:00 < Thorn> zyp have you tried c++ coroutines in a mcu project yet? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ts-1mWBmTNE&feature=youtu.be&t=1333
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2020-04-22T15:07:24 < qyx> oh i2s, not i2c
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2020-04-22T15:28:39 < antto> я не разбираю
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2020-04-22T15:40:49 < Mangy_Dog> i really cant figure out why these chips are pulling 1 amp
2020-04-22T15:40:55 < Mangy_Dog> one chip pulled 2 amp
2020-04-22T15:41:05 < Mangy_Dog> on3v
2020-04-22T15:41:13 < Mangy_Dog> this even includes a controll chip
2020-04-22T15:41:19 < Mangy_Dog> IE a known C6 but working
2020-04-22T15:43:01 < Mangy_Dog> not having an external clock wouldnt cause that would it?
2020-04-22T15:50:36 < englishman> what's heating up?
2020-04-22T15:51:01 < englishman> and how are you powering / measuring
2020-04-22T15:51:34 < englishman> hmm, hydrogen for vehicles doesn't come from electricity, it's refined from natural gas
2020-04-22T15:51:50 < englishman> why does toyota insist this is a good idea
2020-04-22T15:53:11 < sync> because you can stick to using piston engines
2020-04-22T15:53:21 < sync> and natural gas is not going away any time soon
2020-04-22T15:53:34 < englishman> yeah, they want to start fracking here now
2020-04-22T15:53:37 < englishman> rip, my drinking water
2020-04-22T16:13:17 < Mangy_Dog> i think the short might be direct between pins between the clamp pins
2020-04-22T16:21:22 < Mangy_Dog> pins 48 and 47 are shorting in the clamp whem a chip is inside it
2020-04-22T16:21:25 < Mangy_Dog> but not when theres no chip
2020-04-22T16:21:29 < Mangy_Dog> really confusing me now
2020-04-22T16:23:34 < Cracki> something bent?
2020-04-22T16:23:45 < Cracki> broken, bends differently when clamping?
2020-04-22T16:24:25 < Mangy_Dog> maybe but i cant see anything out of place in the clamp
2020-04-22T16:24:27 < Mangy_Dog> or on the ic
2020-04-22T16:25:17 < Cracki> does the chip short the pins
2020-04-22T16:25:19 < Cracki> or does the clamp
2020-04-22T16:25:53 < Cracki> what if they're supposed to be shorted
2020-04-22T16:27:28 < Mangy_Dog> pins 48 and 47 are gnd and 3v3 so shoudlnt short :p
2020-04-22T16:31:56 < Mangy_Dog> randomly fixed it D:
2020-04-22T16:38:35 < Cracki> will randomly haunt your dreams
2020-04-22T16:39:30 < Cracki>   0:02 / 3:23 All the Seat Belts in Star Trek https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9ysvyXDebsM
2020-04-22T16:40:55 < Mangy_Dog> WTF
2020-04-22T16:41:11 < Mangy_Dog> just tested one of these "103cb"
2020-04-22T16:41:26 < Mangy_Dog> stlink util says its a f37 with 265kb
2020-04-22T16:43:15 < Cracki> uhhh
2020-04-22T16:43:47 < Mangy_Dog> i gathered they were rebadged fakes already with acetone wiping
2020-04-22T16:44:12 < Cracki> F37x that's some good stuff
2020-04-22T16:44:24 < Mangy_Dog> i suspect the ID has been hacked
2020-04-22T16:44:51 < Mangy_Dog> why would they rebadfged a higher end chip to a lower end
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2020-04-22T16:45:07 < Cracki> they buy a bag of chips and don't really care?
2020-04-22T16:45:25 < Cracki> can the chip id even be changed
2020-04-22T16:46:05 < Cracki> model that is
2020-04-22T16:46:29 < Mangy_Dog> i suspect it can be
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2020-04-22T16:58:23 < Cracki> if it is an f373, you got a bargain
2020-04-22T16:59:31 < Mangy_Dog> well sure if 9 out of 10 of them wernt dead
2020-04-22T16:59:32 < Mangy_Dog> :)
2020-04-22T16:59:36 < Cracki> hah
2020-04-22T16:59:37 < Mangy_Dog> as they seem to be
2020-04-22T17:08:36 < Cracki> usually we have a law against covering your face, antifa crimes and so on, but come monday half the country HAS to wear a mask
2020-04-22T17:09:06 < Cracki> maybe they're field testing their facial recog for robustness against masks
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2020-04-22T17:13:34 < Mangy_Dog> yep nearly all chips are shorting
2020-04-22T17:13:50 < Mangy_Dog> so either there not even footprint compatable or not even stm32s :p
2020-04-22T17:15:02 < Mangy_Dog> im not even applying power i just have a continuity tester checking between 3v and gnd and pressing chip down
2020-04-22T17:15:25 < Mangy_Dog> and periodically testing a good working known chip
2020-04-22T17:15:35 < Cracki> check if continuity agrees with an f373?
2020-04-22T17:15:52 < Mangy_Dog> yeah that one worked
2020-04-22T17:16:01 < Cracki> hm wait, yes you actually talked to that one
2020-04-22T17:16:13 < Cracki> got a map of which pins are continuous?
2020-04-22T17:16:27 < Cracki> from that one might find the chip
2020-04-22T17:17:33 < Cracki> (matrix of diode measurements helped me figure out that chinese quadrature encoder pinout was them just guessing wrong)
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2020-04-22T17:17:50 < Mangy_Dog> so far it seems only 48 and 47
2020-04-22T17:18:11 < Cracki> I take it those are adjacent to some corner, both on same side?
2020-04-22T17:18:22 < Cracki> and it's a qfn48 or qfp48?
2020-04-22T17:18:56 < Mangy_Dog> whats the one with the legs?
2020-04-22T17:18:58 < Mangy_Dog> forgot
2020-04-22T17:19:00 < Mangy_Dog> :d
2020-04-22T17:19:06 < Mangy_Dog> but yeah square package
2020-04-22T17:19:06 < Cracki> p
2020-04-22T17:19:45 < Mangy_Dog> found a second working f37
2020-04-22T17:20:03 < Mangy_Dog> 2 chips out of 10 working but not 103s :p
2020-04-22T17:20:05 < Cracki> yay
2020-04-22T17:20:20 < Mangy_Dog> well i paid 25 quid :p
2020-04-22T17:20:25 < Mangy_Dog> so 2 working chips isnt great :p
2020-04-22T17:20:41 < Cracki> so 47 and 48 go beep, but how much current can you inject in those? maybe it's trying to run from your multimeter
2020-04-22T17:21:09 < Cracki> are they really something like 1 ohm or less, or something interesting
2020-04-22T17:21:16 < Mangy_Dog> when i powered from the psu the psu said anywhere between .9 to 2 ampos
2020-04-22T17:21:21 < Mangy_Dog> so deffo a short
2020-04-22T17:21:34 < Cracki> !
2020-04-22T17:21:46 < Mangy_Dog> and the continuity just goes to beep not got resistor mode on
2020-04-22T17:21:51 < Mangy_Dog> but yeah 0.1ohsm kinda thing
2020-04-22T17:21:53 < Cracki> and I don't see any stm32 with shorted pins in that corner
2020-04-22T17:21:56 < Cracki> maybe not even stm32
2020-04-22T17:22:01 < Cracki> or clone 32
2020-04-22T17:22:23 < Mangy_Dog> yeah most likely shorted by burn out or just random qfp48s
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2020-04-22T17:28:20 < Mangy_Dog> some 20 ohm resistance on short
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2020-04-22T17:44:00 < Mangy_Dog> 3rd chip found working
2020-04-22T17:45:09 < Mangy_Dog> one brown out shorting internally
2020-04-22T17:45:19 < Mangy_Dog> managed to read it but died
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2020-04-22T17:47:00 < Streaker> check your power supply
2020-04-22T17:47:26 < Mangy_Dog> supplies goo
2020-04-22T17:47:40 < Mangy_Dog> its just some have a 700 ohm short on some pins
2020-04-22T17:48:45 < Mangy_Dog> hmm no 10k
2020-04-22T17:49:03 < Mangy_Dog> onpe
2020-04-22T17:49:07 < Mangy_Dog> hat was the st link
2020-04-22T17:49:58 < Cracki> 700 ohm you say, between gnd and power? maybe it is trying to run
2020-04-22T17:50:16 < Mangy_Dog> yeah some try but then fail some just out right short
2020-04-22T17:50:21 < Mangy_Dog> though got one running
2020-04-22T17:50:28 < Mangy_Dog> but its pulling 147ma
2020-04-22T17:50:36 < Cracki> hmhm
2020-04-22T17:51:01 < Cracki> so they relabeled a bunch of hotplates
2020-04-22T17:51:03 < Mangy_Dog> f103 is meant to be aroudn 20ma isnt it?
2020-04-22T17:51:12 < Cracki> double digit anyway
2020-04-22T17:51:26 < Mangy_Dog> im assuming the f37 is comparativly the same?
2020-04-22T17:51:49 < Cracki> my f302 doesn't pull 147 mA. more like 20
2020-04-22T17:52:18 < Cracki> they're all 72 mhz
2020-04-22T17:52:34 < Mangy_Dog> nods
2020-04-22T17:52:49 < Mangy_Dog> theres 5290 byte addresses (hex)
2020-04-22T17:54:37 < Mangy_Dog> which is low 
2020-04-22T17:54:39 < Mangy_Dog> hmmm
2020-04-22T17:58:39 < antto> https://i.imgur.com/ZtNW8MQ.jpg
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2020-04-22T18:06:00 < Mangy_Dog> tested all 30 chips
2020-04-22T18:06:43 < Mangy_Dog> 3 are working f37* 2 will run but draw LOTA CURRENT the rest are just out right shorting
2020-04-22T18:07:11 < Mangy_Dog> bare in mind for those that just joined us... these are meant to be f103cb
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2020-04-22T18:18:51 < Streaker> Mangy_Dog: pics please? 
2020-04-22T18:24:59 < zyp> Thorn, no, not yet, but I'm meaning to some time
2020-04-22T18:29:58 < zyp> Thorn, suspect it might need a heap though
2020-04-22T18:30:08 < zyp> but it might be worth it
2020-04-22T18:30:31 < Thorn> I've been told by gurus that it doesn't if you do it right
2020-04-22T18:31:08 < Thorn> not tested yet though
2020-04-22T18:35:27 < zyp> I haven't looked into the details, but I expect a coroutine have to allocate a «stack» frame for locals somewhere (assuming the function is not trivial without local state), and since coroutines can finish in a different order than they are initially called, that can't be on a stack
2020-04-22T18:35:56 < zyp> so placing them on a heap seems to be the natural alternative
2020-04-22T18:36:14 < mawk> indeed
2020-04-22T18:36:22 < zyp> but I guess there might be other solutions that are more clever than I am
2020-04-22T18:36:30 < mawk> but you can do coroutines on the stack with enough dedication
2020-04-22T18:36:40 < Thorn> you should be able to put them in .data afaik
2020-04-22T18:36:52 < zyp> ah, if they are not reentrant
2020-04-22T18:36:54 < mawk> I've seen a proof of concept for that in C with alloca()
2020-04-22T18:36:56 < zyp> that makes sense
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2020-04-22T18:37:39 < zyp> disallowing reentrant coroutines sounds kinda restrictive though
2020-04-22T18:39:07 < Thorn> cppreference changed the language, now it says heap allocated :( https://en.cppreference.com/w/cpp/language/coroutines
2020-04-22T18:40:01 < Thorn> but >If the Promise type defines a placement form of operator new
2020-04-22T18:40:09 < Thorn> that sounds promising
2020-04-22T18:40:11 < mawk> C++20 is near
2020-04-22T18:40:13 < zyp> ah
2020-04-22T18:40:42 < zyp> I still think it'd be worth using a stack for though
2020-04-22T18:41:16 < mawk> "removing the need for typename in certain circumstances[18]" lol finally
2020-04-22T18:43:01 < Cracki> coroutine stack on the stack of some thread? that'd mean the coroutine's lifetime is included in some function's "lifetime"
2020-04-22T18:43:33 < mawk> yes
2020-04-22T18:43:45 < mawk> but that's expected right
2020-04-22T18:43:50 < Cracki> I hope not
2020-04-22T18:44:06 < Cracki> you return from a function, that'd have to kill all the coroutines
2020-04-22T18:44:08 < mawk> I guess you can move around an instanciated coroutine
2020-04-22T18:44:15 < mawk> but it's not common, at least when I use them
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2020-04-22T18:44:17 < mawk> yeah
2020-04-22T18:44:35 < Cracki> hm c++ has the choice of stack allocation and heap allocation. would make sense to have both for coroutines too
2020-04-22T18:44:48 < Cracki> new coroutine for heap alloc, RAII for stack
2020-04-22T18:44:53 < zyp> you can't put the coroutine frame on the stack, but you can put functions the coroutine callsthere
2020-04-22T18:45:26 < Cracki> put functions on the stack? what does that mean
2020-04-22T18:45:42 < zyp> if a coroutine calls a non-coroutine
2020-04-22T18:45:49 < zyp> the latter's frame can be stack allocated
2020-04-22T18:45:55 < zyp> because it can't yield
2020-04-22T18:46:04 < Cracki> hm right, something runs the coroutine, the coroutine decides when it yields
2020-04-22T18:46:11 < zyp> yes
2020-04-22T18:46:22 < zyp> but non-coroutines can't
2020-04-22T18:47:06 < Cracki> that means you only need the coroutine's locals in some place, and all the stack usage from calls the coroutine itself makes can go to the caller's stack
2020-04-22T18:47:19 < zyp> that's what I tried to say, yes
2020-04-22T18:47:28 < Cracki> just rephrasing to make sure I understand
2020-04-22T18:48:14 < srk> hah looking at one generated coroutines state .. http://ix.io/2j5O
2020-04-22T18:48:33 < zyp> also, re «some thread's stack», IME with coroutines, multithreading is not very interesting anymore, unless you need to interface with legacy blocking code
2020-04-22T18:48:47 < zyp> and if you do, all coroutine execution would happen in an eventloop thread
2020-04-22T18:48:51 < srk> exactly
2020-04-22T18:49:16 < Cracki> event loops, that's always the hidden magic to make coroutines look magical
2020-04-22T18:49:16 < zyp> I mean, coroutines is kinda a lightweight form of cooperative multithreading anyway
2020-04-22T18:49:26 < srk> or FreeRTOS threads :)
2020-04-22T18:49:41 < mawk> so it's allocated on .data srk 
2020-04-22T18:49:43 < mawk> for your haskell magic code
2020-04-22T18:50:12 < srk> think so
2020-04-22T18:51:07 < srk> it looks way less magical when you write em http://48.io/~rmarko/book/#coroutines :D
2020-04-22T18:51:14 < srk> but still magical
2020-04-22T18:51:16 < aandrew> wow wtf
2020-04-22T18:51:33 < aandrew> stm32g474 nucleo board is using a BGA F723 for st-link
2020-04-22T18:51:39 < srk> :D
2020-04-22T18:52:10 < zyp> hmm, I'd show you some of my coroutines code, but it's on the work computer
2020-04-22T18:52:12 < karlp> aandrew: yeah, tht's "stlinkv3"
2020-04-22T18:52:23 < karlp> welcome to the newworld.
2020-04-22T18:52:23 < Cracki> stinkv3 uses f7 ye
2020-04-22T18:52:32 < karlp> no more debugging non-stm32s anymore either...
2020-04-22T18:52:43 < Cracki> what are you thinking, buy one for the f7 and chuck the g4?
2020-04-22T18:52:47 < srk> zyp: please do if you remember :) 
2020-04-22T18:53:22 < zyp> I've got coroutines combined with a qt gui for e.g. the firmware updater tool that talks to the bootloader
2020-04-22T18:54:00 < aandrew> I wonder if jlink will work on it, it did for the older stlinks
2020-04-22T18:54:01 < zyp> clicking the «flash» button fires off a coroutine that awaits all the comms steps, so the entire flash writing process is nice and readable
2020-04-22T18:54:03 < aandrew> I hate stlink
2020-04-22T18:54:35 < zyp> maybe I've pastebinned the code before, I'll grep logs
2020-04-22T18:54:40 < englishman> aandrew: thats the new stdink v3
2020-04-22T18:54:48 < englishman> jlink is "coming" for it since last june
2020-04-22T18:55:24 < englishman> https://forum.segger.com/index.php/Thread/6397-SOLVED-STLink-conversion-utility-for-STLink-v3/
2020-04-22T18:55:41 < srk> lol
2020-04-22T18:56:07 < srk> works fine with blackmagic_stlinkv2 
2020-04-22T18:56:15 < karlp> aandrew: cute re mucous, they were promoing free licenses for open source a year or two ago, I went down and tried using it for some comparisons with freertos and stuff,
2020-04-22T18:56:15 < srk> and oocd probably
2020-04-22T18:56:33 < karlp> just found it really archaic and difficult, and such a smaller community that there were no advantages I could find.
2020-04-22T18:56:41 < karlp> fun to see the vendors all buying software though.
2020-04-22T18:56:51 < aandrew> bleh.
2020-04-22T18:57:35 < aandrew> yeah I have only used ucos on some ADI DSP and like 15y ago on some HC16 variant I think
2020-04-22T18:58:18 < mawk> my work wants to use "riotos"
2020-04-22T18:58:25 < mawk> while I wanted freertos
2020-04-22T18:58:32 < zyp> ah, found it: https://paste.jvnv.net/view/JrgDM
2020-04-22T18:59:01 < Thorn> T - 101 min https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wSge0I7pwFI
2020-04-22T18:59:15 < Cracki> how's riotos?
2020-04-22T18:59:22 < mawk> I'm not sure
2020-04-22T18:59:27 < mawk> my boss thinks it's the best option
2020-04-22T18:59:39 < aandrew> never heard of riotos before
2020-04-22T18:59:41 < Cracki> PHB reads marketing brochure
2020-04-22T18:59:45 < aandrew> could be worse though, could be chibios
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2020-04-22T18:59:53 < aandrew> or fucking stm32plus+freertos C++ crap
2020-04-22T19:00:20 < Cracki> >friendly
2020-04-22T19:00:22 < Cracki> >internet of shit
2020-04-22T19:00:22 < Cracki> https://www.riot-os.org/
2020-04-22T19:00:32 < Cracki> smells arduino grade
2020-04-22T19:00:38 < Laurenceb> and now its *cough* time for the *coughs* coronavirus briefing
2020-04-22T19:00:59 < Laurenceb> >riot-os
2020-04-22T19:01:04 < Laurenceb> >not pussy-riot-os
2020-04-22T19:01:21 < aandrew> lol
2020-04-22T19:01:59 < Cracki> Freie Universität Berlin, I'd be suspicious https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/RIOT_(operating_system)
2020-04-22T19:03:32 < PaulFertser> Laurenceb: do you know about "Voyna" group (some pussy riot members participated in it before) performances? I guess you'd like those.
2020-04-22T19:03:53 < Laurenceb> tbh its all a CIA job
2020-04-22T19:04:11 < Cracki> this talks about riotos vs freertos, talks about "all the drivers" https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=19016945
2020-04-22T19:06:45 < Cracki> mawk, how much code for the RTOS does the boss have to write? if it's little to none, how come he gets to make this decision
2020-04-22T19:06:53 < Steffanx> I bet your boss likes Internet of shit,  mawk
2020-04-22T19:07:04 < PaulFertser> Laurenceb: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Voina
2020-04-22T19:07:13 < mawk> none Cracki 
2020-04-22T19:07:22 < mawk> but he wants people to spend the least time on it since it's his money
2020-04-22T19:07:30 < Cracki> if "the OS" comes with a network stack and whatever drivers, that would be an advantage
2020-04-22T19:07:38 < mawk> yeah
2020-04-22T19:07:40 < mawk> well riotos has that
2020-04-22T19:07:46 < mawk> I guess that's why he chose it
2020-04-22T19:07:55 < Cracki> makes sense :D amazon's hold on freertos may mean that they have a network stack for it
2020-04-22T19:08:26 < zyp> you mean «freertos plus tcp»?
2020-04-22T19:08:41 < Cracki> never looked into it
2020-04-22T19:08:51 < Cracki> guess I do
2020-04-22T19:08:58 < zyp> https://www.freertos.org/FreeRTOS-Plus/FreeRTOS_Plus_TCP/index.html
2020-04-22T19:09:19 < zyp> never tried it
2020-04-22T19:09:57 < Cracki> question on the async python code above: what event loop do you give this to?
2020-04-22T19:10:26 < Cracki> does qt have some kind of support for python's coroutines/async/await?
2020-04-22T19:10:28 < zyp> quamash, to integrate with qt
2020-04-22T19:10:31 < Cracki> ic
2020-04-22T19:11:36 < Cracki> I'd have done that as a thread, and have those apis just block. dunno how I'd make that abortable though, except with a bunch of timeout arguments and except Timeout: something
2020-04-22T19:12:04 < Cracki> that bunch of awaits looks neater
2020-04-22T19:12:53 < mawk> I use the asyncio event loopb
2020-04-22T19:13:03 < mawk> but when you have another library with its own, you need to find a way to integrate it
2020-04-22T19:13:06 < mawk> it's per library
2020-04-22T19:16:30 < Cracki> right
2020-04-22T19:20:24 < zyp> hopefully libs will stop rolling their own then there's a standard lib one they can use
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2020-04-22T19:26:06 < Mangy_Dog> https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/695271473308237985/702555721350250647/IMG_20200422_172516.jpg  Streaker
2020-04-22T19:27:32 -!- veegee [~veegee@ipagstaticip-3d3f7614-22f3-5b69-be13-7ab4b2c585d9.sdsl.bell.ca] has joined ##stm32
2020-04-22T19:30:23 < Streaker> Mangy_Dog: I meant pics of the chips so I can see how closely they resemble the originals. :D
2020-04-22T19:31:11 -!- machinehum [~machinehu@2601:600:837f:9080:de:3b73:ecdc:6d42] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds]
2020-04-22T19:32:17 < Steffanx> Such ESD protection Mangy_Dog 
2020-04-22T19:33:11 < Mangy_Dog> :p
2020-04-22T19:33:38 < fenugrec> are those the overpriced unreliable knockoffs ? heh
2020-04-22T19:34:00 -!- rajkosto [~Rajko@cable-178-149-122-96.dynamic.sbb.rs] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer]
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2020-04-22T19:34:09 < Mangy_Dog> https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/695271473308237985/702557748981923900/IMG_20200422_173256.jpg
2020-04-22T19:34:13 < Mangy_Dog> thats the nest i can do
2020-04-22T19:34:30 < Mangy_Dog> best
2020-04-22T19:34:39 < Streaker> thank you :)
2020-04-22T19:35:03 < zyp> clearly fake, it's missing the confusing mold mark in the upper right corner that makes everybody mount their chip the wrong way around
2020-04-22T19:35:17 < Mangy_Dog> heheh
2020-04-22T19:35:30 < Steffanx> Ohno, now Streaker will tell his Indian co-workers to do a better job next time
2020-04-22T19:36:50 < Streaker> what mold mark zyp? That chip looks exactly the same as 2 genuine STM32F103s that I have on my desk!
2020-04-22T19:37:08 < zyp> yeah, I'm mostly joking
2020-04-22T19:37:14 < Mangy_Dog> the C is also smooth
2020-04-22T19:38:06 < Streaker> I've had trouble with my stlink when the wires were as long as in Mangy_Dog's pic.
2020-04-22T19:38:21 < Streaker> you think that could have led to reading out the wrong id?
2020-04-22T19:38:34 < Mangy_Dog> no
2020-04-22T19:38:45 < Mangy_Dog> and that wouldnt account for the 27 chips that were internally shorting
2020-04-22T19:38:46 < Mangy_Dog> :)
2020-04-22T19:39:16 < zyp> Mangy_Dog, here's from a board I got on my desk: https://bin.jvnv.net/file/LCjfF.jpg
2020-04-22T19:39:43 < Mangy_Dog> wish i had a good mag
2020-04-22T19:40:09 < Mangy_Dog> ohhhh that is a confusing mold mark
2020-04-22T19:40:16 < Steffanx> ARMy :)
2020-04-22T19:40:48 < Mangy_Dog> i was going to say
2020-04-22T19:40:55 < Mangy_Dog> to me that doesnt look like a genuine stm32
2020-04-22T19:41:00 < Mangy_Dog> clone?
2020-04-22T19:41:39 < Steffanx> Its real
2020-04-22T19:41:53 < Mangy_Dog> odd looking real one
2020-04-22T19:42:08 < Mangy_Dog> the days when the fakes look more real then the real thing
2020-04-22T19:42:10 < Mangy_Dog> :p
2020-04-22T19:42:12 < Steffanx> Why. At least it has the proper C :)
2020-04-22T19:42:19 < Mangy_Dog> true
2020-04-22T19:42:19 < Mangy_Dog> lol
2020-04-22T19:42:44 < Cracki> i've got two F302/3 here, one from china/russia, one my boss sourced, presumably legit. neither has the second mark
2020-04-22T19:43:02 < Cracki> why are they not putting that mold hole where the corner mark belongs?
2020-04-22T19:44:04 < Cracki> the real ones have finer print, and it's noticeably laser etched into the surface?
2020-04-22T19:45:17 < zyp> https://bin.jvnv.net/file/rtOzS.jpg <- here's from another board on my desk
2020-04-22T19:45:21 < zyp> no mold mark
2020-04-22T19:45:23 < zyp> so it varies
2020-04-22T19:45:31 < zyp> I believe both are genuine
2020-04-22T19:45:38 < zyp> at least both are fully functional
2020-04-22T19:46:09 < Cracki> if it quacks like a duck, it's from china
2020-04-22T19:46:29 < zyp> also, I'm kinda amazed how good the camera in this phone is, snapped both those pics with my phone
2020-04-22T19:46:47 < Mangy_Dog> :o
2020-04-22T19:46:53 < Mangy_Dog> tbh its one of the reasons i want a new phone
2020-04-22T19:46:57 < Mangy_Dog> so many have macro now
2020-04-22T19:47:09 < Cracki> you seem to know something about good illumination. no flash means no glare
2020-04-22T19:47:31 < Steffanx> What phone?
2020-04-22T19:47:44 < Mangy_Dog> mines and old redmi note4 mediatek
2020-04-22T19:47:58 < Mangy_Dog> but yes zyp what phone
2020-04-22T19:47:59 < zyp> mine's oneplus 7t
2020-04-22T19:48:02 < Mangy_Dog> ooh
2020-04-22T19:48:45 < zyp> also I didn't do jack shit about illumination, just tried to avoid too much shadows :p
2020-04-22T19:49:35 < zyp> if I wanted to put effort into it I'd grab the DSLR and the macro lens from the shelf, but the phone has narrowed the gap so much it's almost pointless
2020-04-22T19:51:59 < Streaker> https://i.imgur.com/GsSGsJ3.jpg
2020-04-22T19:52:20 -!- Hamilton [~Hamilton@unaffiliated/hamilton] has quit [Quit: Leaving]
2020-04-22T19:52:44 < Streaker> genuine F103. looks the same.
2020-04-22T19:54:35 < Mangy_Dog> my poor old canon 7d
2020-04-22T19:55:08 < Mangy_Dog> while my old redmi is still not there in photo quality as the 7d
2020-04-22T19:55:26 < Mangy_Dog> i fear once i get the new phone i wont use the 7d for anything other than propper photos with lens stuff 
2020-04-22T19:55:48 < Mangy_Dog> currently the only thing my 7d does much better than my redmi is blue chroma when shooting video
2020-04-22T19:56:01 < Mangy_Dog> but only slightly
2020-04-22T19:56:43 < Mangy_Dog> im sure the newer phones are still 4:2:2 or 4:1:1 but when you have 80mp or something... it kinda makes up for the loss
2020-04-22T19:57:17 < Mangy_Dog> streaker thats a legit C8
2020-04-22T19:57:30 < Streaker> how is it different than your one?
2020-04-22T19:57:37 < Mangy_Dog> tge C for a start
2020-04-22T19:57:43 < Mangy_Dog> the legit C is more <
2020-04-22T19:57:48 < Mangy_Dog> pointy
2020-04-22T19:58:05 < Mangy_Dog> the 8 as well
2020-04-22T19:58:13 < Mangy_Dog> yours is more pair shaped
2020-04-22T19:58:29 < Mangy_Dog> wait ignore that last bit
2020-04-22T19:58:33 < Mangy_Dog> mines meant to be CB
2020-04-22T19:58:34 < Mangy_Dog> :D
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2020-04-22T19:59:05 < Streaker> ok. I can see the difference in the C now.
2020-04-22T20:00:00 < Mangy_Dog> the other way to tell is when the markings rubb off with acetone
2020-04-22T20:00:54 < Mangy_Dog> grumbles
2020-04-22T20:00:55 < Mangy_Dog> its 6pm
2020-04-22T20:01:03 < Mangy_Dog> ive wasted the whole day over these fake chips
2020-04-22T20:01:24 < Mangy_Dog> i wanted to get my stargate base prepped for printing
2020-04-22T20:02:28 < Mangy_Dog> ooohhh
2020-04-22T20:02:32 < Mangy_Dog> 899 subscribers now
2020-04-22T20:02:39 < Mangy_Dog> 100 away from my special video
2020-04-22T20:02:44 -!- con3 [~con3@165.255.104.51] has joined ##stm32
2020-04-22T20:02:46 < Cracki> got your own printer or have it printed somewhere?
2020-04-22T20:03:17 < Cracki> my cheap source of printing small shit closed up shop when everyone lost their fucking head over this flu season
2020-04-22T20:03:36 < Cracki> 5 bucks shipping for anything is a little too much when the part isn't worth half a buck
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2020-04-22T20:04:27 < Mangy_Dog> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ObcUnLt66GU
2020-04-22T20:04:38 < Cracki> make it spin!
2020-04-22T20:04:47 < Mangy_Dog> i have 3 fdms and 1 resin
2020-04-22T20:05:03 < Mangy_Dog> 1 fdm is in storage kinda half broken in need of a full rebuild...
2020-04-22T20:05:14 < Cracki> resin, I think that's what I'd buy right now. more precise than fdm, appears to be less fiddly
2020-04-22T20:05:30 < Mangy_Dog> my railcore which is still faulty sitting by my desk waiting for me to realign one of the z rails and my side winder backup in the workarea... which ill print this on
2020-04-22T20:05:41 < Mangy_Dog> naa resin is fiddly
2020-04-22T20:05:44 < Mangy_Dog> and messy
2020-04-22T20:05:47 < Mangy_Dog> and potentially dangerous
2020-04-22T20:05:52 < Cracki> there are cheap ones for ~300 bucks with ~70 um resolution (1920x1080, 120 mm width)
2020-04-22T20:05:58 < Mangy_Dog> its worth it though if your prepared
2020-04-22T20:06:10 < Mangy_Dog> my photon is full 2k
2020-04-22T20:06:14 < Mangy_Dog> 5 inch
2020-04-22T20:06:16 < Cracki> alcohol or water to wash the resin off, then expose both in sun light to inactivate it
2020-04-22T20:06:28 < kakimir> sup sup
2020-04-22T20:06:39 < Mangy_Dog> IPA but people are moving to good degreasers like simple green (cant get that over here in the UK though :/ )
2020-04-22T20:06:43 < Mangy_Dog> and water to rince 
2020-04-22T20:06:43 < kakimir> Mangy_Dog: you are youtube famous
2020-04-22T20:06:53 < Mangy_Dog> but you shouldnt put that resin down the sink
2020-04-22T20:07:00 < Mangy_Dog> and sun or uv cure chamber
2020-04-22T20:07:01 < Cracki> how would you describe the mess of resin printing?
2020-04-22T20:07:07 < Mangy_Dog> kakimir am i?
2020-04-22T20:07:14 < Mangy_Dog> :o ive not even hit 1k subs yet
2020-04-22T20:07:17 < Cracki> yes, expose the resin wash water to inactivate it
2020-04-22T20:07:28 < Mangy_Dog> resin gets everywher
2020-04-22T20:07:28 < kakimir> that's quite a lot Mangy_Dog
2020-04-22T20:07:44 < Mangy_Dog> and even with good gloves ipa with resin can leak in and get on the skin
2020-04-22T20:07:51 < mawk> what's simple green
2020-04-22T20:07:57 < Mangy_Dog> an american detergent
2020-04-22T20:08:08 < mawk> that doesn't look circuit-compatible is it ?
2020-04-22T20:08:11 < Mangy_Dog> its recommended a lot as a good alternative to IPA when washing resin prints
2020-04-22T20:08:24 < Mangy_Dog> its not for electronics
2020-04-22T20:08:25 < Mangy_Dog> :p
2020-04-22T20:08:44 < mawk> a
2020-04-22T20:08:47 < mawk> I love IPA
2020-04-22T20:09:03 < Mangy_Dog> not the beer
2020-04-22T20:09:08 < mawk> I use it for my disodoring lamp, for cleaning up ink, for cleaning up corona off my hands
2020-04-22T20:09:11 < mawk> yeah I hate beer
2020-04-22T20:09:14 < mawk> all alcohol really
2020-04-22T20:15:36 < aandrew> englishman: that segger forum link is about supporting the STM32G-series, not being able to reflash stlinkv3 as segger j-link
2020-04-22T20:16:09 < englishman> ...
2020-04-22T20:16:25 < englishman> are we reading the same thread
2020-04-22T20:16:45 < englishman> today I received a new board from ST (STM32G474 Nucleo-64). It contains a new debugging front-end called STLink v3.
2020-04-22T20:16:45 < englishman> I could not convert the STLink to J-Link using the existing tool, which I reckon is only for STLink v2 ;( .
2020-04-22T20:19:05 < mawk> ;(
2020-04-22T20:20:03 < Mangy_Dog> what is a v3?
2020-04-22T20:20:43 < Steffanx> a newer stlink with som huge arse F7 on it
2020-04-22T20:20:51 < Mangy_Dog> :o
2020-04-22T20:20:58 < Steffanx> which seems to be crippled by ST on purpose
2020-04-22T20:21:03 < zyp> what's an arse F7?
2020-04-22T20:21:23 < Mangy_Dog> an arse is something we all have... mine also is huge
2020-04-22T20:21:30 < Steffanx> Want me to show you some piccs zyp?
2020-04-22T20:21:31 < Steffanx> -c
2020-04-22T20:21:34 < Mangy_Dog> lol]
2020-04-22T20:22:02 < Steffanx> ill find  you the most NSFW pics you can ever imagine.
2020-04-22T20:22:08 < Steffanx> or ill just ask blaxter
2020-04-22T20:22:51 < zyp> first hit on google image search for arse F7: https://i.pinimg.com/originals/f7/d9/e1/f7d9e1fe1fa313a93bf03964e044ce74.jpg
2020-04-22T20:23:05 < Mangy_Dog> oh dear
2020-04-22T20:23:06 < kakimir> is that photoshop
2020-04-22T20:23:24 < kakimir> is that photoshop 101
2020-04-22T20:23:27 < aandrew> englishman: hm, the rest of that thread is all about Gx support
2020-04-22T20:23:31 < Steffanx> you forgot to add "huge" zyp
2020-04-22T20:23:45 < Mangy_Dog> anyway
2020-04-22T20:23:49 < Mangy_Dog> why would a v3 need a f7?
2020-04-22T20:23:57 < Mangy_Dog> seems seriously over kill for the task
2020-04-22T20:24:01 < aandrew> it is
2020-04-22T20:24:06 < aandrew> I think they just want to show off
2020-04-22T20:24:19 < Mangy_Dog> or try to stop people using v2 clones
2020-04-22T20:25:25 < Steffanx> probably not
2020-04-22T20:25:35 < Steffanx> even a real stlink is ~20 euro
2020-04-22T20:25:49 < mawk> that's like a year salary for chinese
2020-04-22T20:25:55 < mawk> so they make it themselves
2020-04-22T20:26:06 < Mangy_Dog> actually what can a real stlink do that the clone can not?
2020-04-22T20:26:17 < Mangy_Dog> or is it just the clones are SWD only?
2020-04-22T20:26:17 < Steffanx> program fake chips
2020-04-22T20:26:53 < Cracki> the stlink v2 clones often don't have oduble the flash so they're stuck at v2. v2.1 can do usb mass storage and virtual com port
2020-04-22T20:26:58 < Cracki> *double
2020-04-22T20:27:09 < Mangy_Dog> oh
2020-04-22T20:27:16 < Cracki> and the v3 uses the f7 for overall faster transfers and whatnot
2020-04-22T20:27:26 < Cracki> and there haven't been clones of the v3 yet
2020-04-22T20:27:38 < Cracki> doesn't matter even, they sell them cheap enough
2020-04-22T20:27:48 < Cracki> i'd still buy something else
2020-04-22T20:28:04 < Cracki> they decided a 10-pin cortex debug header isn't good enough, they use a 14 pin one
2020-04-22T20:28:09 < Mangy_Dog> well that little test rig earlier, im planning to actually make a propper rig
2020-04-22T20:28:25 < Mangy_Dog> based around black magic with built in target chip read out and programming off bins stored on sd
2020-04-22T20:29:00 < mawk> just hire an indian slave to do it and spare the dev time
2020-04-22T20:29:12 < Cracki> spacex new launch 1930 utc
2020-04-22T20:29:13 < Mangy_Dog> im poorer than a indian dever
2020-04-22T20:33:42 < kakimir> what does that mean=
2020-04-22T20:33:54 < kakimir> what is dever
2020-04-22T20:35:21 < Mangy_Dog> Developer
2020-04-22T20:35:58 < kakimir> its dev
2020-04-22T20:36:37 < Mangy_Dog> maybe
2020-04-22T20:36:45 < Mangy_Dog> doesnt change the fact im jobless and poor :p
2020-04-22T20:36:58 < Thorn> lol you can't even read wm8731 registers over spi or i2c
2020-04-22T20:37:31 < Mangy_Dog> not sure what that is
2020-04-22T20:38:00 < Thorn> it nacks its own address in read mode
2020-04-22T20:38:38 < Mangy_Dog> a audio codec?
2020-04-22T20:38:48 < Thorn> yes
2020-04-22T20:39:00 < Mangy_Dog> does it read pwm decode and amp for headphones?
2020-04-22T20:39:27 < Thorn> and if you use spi it lacks miso lol
2020-04-22T20:39:33 < Mangy_Dog> o.O
2020-04-22T20:39:50 < Mangy_Dog> how are you meant to set registers if there are any
2020-04-22T20:40:33 < Thorn> by writing over spi or i2c
2020-04-22T20:41:09 < Mangy_Dog> but withou being able to read current state or know the address (in i2c)
2020-04-22T20:42:19 < Thorn> at least over i2c you can tell the chip is alive because it acks the transaction
2020-04-22T20:42:58 < Mangy_Dog> ah
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2020-04-22T20:54:15 < Mangy_Dog> ok looking at a BMP schematic... its using TMS TCK TDO TDI ... is that jlink?
2020-04-22T20:54:30 < Mangy_Dog> im used to swd sdo
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2020-04-22T20:58:26 < Streaker> that's jtag
2020-04-22T20:59:11 < srk> it does both
2020-04-22T20:59:16 < Mangy_Dog> are target pin the same as the outward pins on the bmp?
2020-04-22T20:59:54 < Mangy_Dog> i mean as in from the micro controller
2020-04-22T21:00:07 < Mangy_Dog> tbh i should just google and find out im being lazy :p
2020-04-22T21:00:31 < srk> possibly, you can also check STLink schematics in any dev board reference
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2020-04-22T21:35:35 < onio> Hi all, do anyone here use ARM Event recorder? I seem to be having 2 problems. 
2020-04-22T21:35:35 < onio> (1) Keeps crashing. I am running in a VM. Is this an issue?
2020-04-22T21:35:36 < onio> (2) What is wrong with the is scvd file? https://paste.ubuntu.com/p/47Zt73cch4/
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2020-04-22T22:19:21 < englishman> t-11
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2020-04-22T22:42:10 < Cracki> a swig of IPA killed the booster last time
2020-04-22T22:44:08 < PaulFertser> India Pale Ale is a nice beer style
2020-04-22T22:53:57 < catphish> yay my jlcpcb manufacturing is complete
2020-04-22T22:54:14 < Steffanx> will you get a new dhl love story now?
2020-04-22T22:54:44 < catphish> i had jlcpcb pay the taxes
2020-04-22T22:54:52 < Steffanx> oh they do that now?
2020-04-22T22:55:01 < catphish> yep, they say its faster too
2020-04-22T22:55:12 < catphish> though i'm pretty sure they overcharge
2020-04-22T22:55:19 < catphish> dhl had better not try screw me!
2020-04-22T22:55:28 < Steffanx> so does DHL, so... :P
2020-04-22T22:55:47 < kakimir> doubletax!
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2020-04-22T23:02:37 < Cracki> what makes you suspect overcharging?
2020-04-22T23:03:46 < strata> the battery is really hot
2020-04-22T23:04:01 < Steffanx> Dont blow it
2020-04-22T23:05:21 < kakimir> this it the part where stratas house burns down
2020-04-22T23:06:09 < strata> i installed the kaki9000 fire suppresor system
2020-04-22T23:06:12 < strata> all good
2020-04-22T23:09:52 < Steffanx> Only soon you will have pitamir too.
2020-04-22T23:11:03 < kakimir> do we start adjusting valve clearances of motorcycle tommorow
2020-04-22T23:11:04 < kakimir> ?
2020-04-22T23:11:39 < Steffanx> Nah, not tomorrow
2020-04-22T23:12:04 < kakimir> measure -> cams off -> measure shims -> calculate new values -> order shims -> install new shims -> install cams -> measure
2020-04-22T23:12:15 < kakimir> true
2020-04-22T23:12:42 < Steffanx> Tomorrow is sauna day
2020-04-22T23:13:04 < kakimir> is it? :o
2020-04-22T23:13:12 < Steffanx> ya
2020-04-22T23:13:22 < kakimir> dor you?
2020-04-22T23:13:24 < kakimir> for
2020-04-22T23:13:32 < Steffanx> for finlanders
2020-04-22T23:14:14 < kakimir> I though it was Sat.
2020-04-22T23:14:40 < kakimir> I don't follow such rules
2020-04-22T23:14:50 < kakimir> I sauna when I feel like it
2020-04-22T23:16:58 < Steffanx> Dont you feel like it?
2020-04-22T23:18:23 < englishman> didnt you get the tappet shim kit kako?
2020-04-22T23:19:45 < karlp> were mangy dogs ICs rrealyl not even consistently oriented on teh tape? :)
2020-04-22T23:28:18 < kakimir> Steffanx: not now
2020-04-22T23:28:21 < kakimir> not really
2020-04-22T23:34:38 < Steffanx> Hm
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2020-04-23T01:34:17 < kakimir> in i2c devices
2020-04-23T01:34:25 < kakimir> interrupt line
2020-04-23T01:34:36 < kakimir> does it usually stay until interrupt is cleared
2020-04-23T01:34:45 < kakimir> or is it just a pulse
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2020-04-23T01:52:27 < catphish> Cracki: when i was comparing the pricing options, the tax prepaid option seemed more than 20% more
2020-04-23T01:52:46 < catphish> Cracki: but maybe i missed the shipping itself from my calculation, im not sure now
2020-04-23T01:52:51 < Cracki> 20% over what it would cost for you to pay it yourself?
2020-04-23T01:53:00 < Cracki> or is the tax 20%
2020-04-23T01:53:06 < catphish> the tax is 20%
2020-04-23T01:53:12 < catphish> so that's what i'd expect them to add
2020-04-23T01:53:28 < Cracki> ah, expected
2020-04-23T01:53:35 < catphish> but perhaps they still pay a tax handling fee (like i'd have to anyway)
2020-04-23T01:53:38 < Cracki> would be funny if they were willing to eat that tax
2020-04-23T01:54:31 < catphish> dhl only paid my tax for me once :)
2020-04-23T02:06:24 < kakimir> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gwKVFDwPo3M some solid musics for you
2020-04-23T02:06:33 < kakimir> that track is solid
2020-04-23T02:10:00 < Cracki> I heard that in lots of places but always faster. didn't expect it to be so... paced
2020-04-23T02:27:36 < catphish> that is a fine work of music
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2020-04-23T02:41:33 < englishman> kakimir: sometimes you can set it to pulse or latching
2020-04-23T02:48:02 < kakimir> I ran out of pins so I try to figure some combining stuff
2020-04-23T02:48:22 < kakimir> one pin short is not a dealbreaker
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2020-04-23T03:49:18 < dongs> my UPS batts with free shipping deliver today
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2020-04-23T03:59:03 < aandrew> heh
2020-04-23T03:59:15 < aandrew> my mouser and digikey orders arrived at the same time today
2020-04-23T03:59:21 < dongs> yeah sure
2020-04-23T03:59:27 < dongs> i need $17 more from digikey to get freeship
2020-04-23T03:59:38 < aandrew> so I got my fuses, installed the 2x20Ah batteries in the 1400VA unit so no more whiny UPSes
2020-04-23T04:00:14 < aandrew> I have another 4U 1400VA UPS in the garage sans batteries
2020-04-23T04:00:26 < aandrew> but that thing I think wants 8 batteries
2020-04-23T04:00:39 < aandrew> which is why it's in the garage in the first place
2020-04-23T04:04:42 < dongs> i have some 2U APC that takes 9AH sla stuff
2020-04-23T04:04:49 < dongs> couple of those
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2020-04-23T05:10:58 < Thorn> >port an mp3 decoder to php https://freelance.habr.com/tasks/297970
2020-04-23T05:13:14 < Cracki> bindings, done
2020-04-23T05:13:16 < kakinull> what
2020-04-23T05:13:18 < Cracki> php extension
2020-04-23T05:13:44 < Cracki> someone wants something done with php, but thinks he knows how to do it
2020-04-23T05:14:22 < Cracki> 10k rubles is... one hour
2020-04-23T05:19:24 < Cracki> if you were crazy enough, php seems to have an ffi of sorts https://www.php.net/manual/en/class.ffi.php
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2020-04-23T05:35:43 < Thorn> that was my question
2020-04-23T05:35:46 < Thorn> it's theoretically understandable why someone would write an mp3 decoder in javascript (can't have one in browser any other way if you can't use webassembly or that) but php runs on a server, why not link a library
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2020-04-23T05:53:09 < Thorn> >when I set to NRF_I2S_CHANNELS_LEFT, the sample value in the transmit buffer will be repeated on both the Left and Right channels
2020-04-23T05:53:28 < Thorn> I'm afraid to ask what will happen if I set CHANNELS_RIGHT
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2020-04-23T06:45:00 < dongs> Thorn: for $130? lmaooo
2020-04-23T06:45:46 < Thorn> they always put a low price to make candidates bid
2020-04-23T06:46:28 < Thorn> in hope that someone clueless/desperate will bid low and actually do the job
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2020-04-23T07:54:24 < dongs> also php mp3 decoder? the fuck
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2020-04-23T10:49:14 < mawk> I need 6 digits after the decimal dot in latitude/longitude for a 40cm precision
2020-04-23T10:49:21 < mawk> according to my 5 sheets of computations
2020-04-23T10:52:42 < jpa-> one degree is 111 km, so 40 cm is 0.000 0036 so yeah, 6 decimals
2020-04-23T10:54:30 < Steffanx> That's not 4 sheets.. jpa-  
2020-04-23T10:54:38 < mawk> yeah you're doing it too fast
2020-04-23T10:54:41 < mawk> you need to slow down
2020-04-23T10:54:47 < Steffanx> 5.
2020-04-23T10:54:50 < mawk> you need to do it the exact way
2020-04-23T10:55:45 < mawk> have x = cos(y)cos(x), y = sin(y)cos(x), z = sin(x), then compute dx, dy and dz, and finally sqrt(dx²+dy²+dz²) as if you're a dirty physicist using differentials as regular numbers
2020-04-23T10:55:47 < jpa-> there is no exact way, because the length of one degree varies by latitude; but in longitude it is simple and constant
2020-04-23T10:56:06 < mawk> yeah
2020-04-23T10:56:16 < mawk> it is a firt order expansion around a given latitude
2020-04-23T10:56:21 < mawk> I took the latitude of den haag
2020-04-23T10:57:06 < jpa-> why bother, when you still need the same amount of decimals for longitude and it would just look plain silly if you had different formats for lat & lon
2020-04-23T10:57:08 < qyx> so much work for a "6 decimals" result
2020-04-23T10:57:16 < mawk> lol
2020-04-23T10:57:25 < mawk> it's not work if it's fun to do
2020-04-23T10:58:39 < mawk> 0.01" error on both latitude and longitude gives 34.3cm error around Den Haag
2020-04-23T11:01:07 < qyx> if you are math-fluent, you can compute resolution in degrees of a 16bit 2.5g full scale accelerometer for me
2020-04-23T11:02:25 < qyx> is it asin(1/(2^16 / 2.5))
2020-04-23T11:02:53 < jpa-> maybe, or 2^15 if the 16 bits is signed
2020-04-23T11:03:10 < qyx> true, it is +-2.5g
2020-04-23T11:03:40 < jpa-> i get 0.004 deg
2020-04-23T11:04:00 < jpa-> though of course the drift & noise & initial misalignment will dominate that, but it's the resolution anyway
2020-04-23T11:04:30 < mawk> I guess yes
2020-04-23T11:04:33 < qyx> so it matches datasheets of some commercial inclinometers stating 0.005°C resolution
2020-04-23T11:04:54 < qyx> 0.005°, without C
2020-04-23T11:05:27 < qyx> there are only a few achieving higher res
2020-04-23T11:05:38 < mawk> but 2.5g is the maximum range right, but if you're doing inclinaison measurement you're only measuing inside [-g; g] not [-2.5g; 2.5g] no ?
2020-04-23T11:06:13 < qyx> yes, hence the /2.5 part
2020-04-23T11:06:46 < mawk> yes
2020-04-23T11:08:13 < qyx> jpa-: initial misalignment is not critical for some applications, eg. measuring difference over time
2020-04-23T11:08:26 < qyx> the drift is though
2020-04-23T11:09:30 < jpa-> qyx: though if your axis is not in the direction you think it is, you are actually measuring inclination in some other direction - but over small angles that's not much of a problem either
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2020-04-23T11:29:20 < qyx> I was considering fusing with magneto data
2020-04-23T11:33:24 < jpa-> magnet sensor data is ridicuously noisy, stuff like moving your pen on the table will change the readings by 1 degree or more
2020-04-23T11:34:27 < jpa-> one way to improve precision is to mount the accelerometer on a rotating platform - then if your rotation mechanism is accurate, you can null out most of the errors in the sensor
2020-04-23T11:34:54 < jpa-> (the most trivial rotation mechanism being to just have a flat base and rotate it yourself :)
2020-04-23T11:36:27 < Steffanx> And that over some temperature range?
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2020-04-23T11:42:55 < jpa-> Steffanx: i mean during the measurement
2020-04-23T11:43:00 < Steffanx> Oh
2020-04-23T11:44:21 < ds2> couldn't you fuse multiple accels?
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2020-04-23T11:46:45 < ds2> 4 should give you about 18bits values
2020-04-23T11:47:53 < jpa-> even plain averaging would give you more bits
2020-04-23T11:48:13 < jpa-> and usually 4x data only gives 1 extra usable bit, due to the noise being amplified also
2020-04-23T11:49:54 < mawk> how do you compute that ?
2020-04-23T11:49:58 < ds2> 4x per extra bit? 
2020-04-23T11:50:20 < mawk> the noise is amplified is the noise is the same for each accel, no ?
2020-04-23T11:50:27 < mawk> why would it be
2020-04-23T11:50:36 < ds2> noise is random
2020-04-23T11:50:40 < mawk> yeah
2020-04-23T11:50:40 < Steffanx> I'm gonna mount 6 sensors as a cube. Such fancy
2020-04-23T11:50:45 < ds2> random stuff follow statistical rules
2020-04-23T11:50:55 < jpa-> mawk: it isn't, but if it is normally distributed the resulting noise will be sqrt(noise1^2 + noise2^2)
2020-04-23T11:51:11 < ds2> shouldn't multiple accel help with offseting drift?
2020-04-23T11:52:05 < jpa-> ds2: there is no guarantee they won't drift the same way
2020-04-23T11:52:24 < ds2> drift cannot be assume to be random between units?
2020-04-23T11:53:24 < jpa-> well, if they are constructed the same way, it probably won't be random - but even if it was, you'd need a statistically significant sample (100 chips or so) before that becomes a good average
2020-04-23T11:53:37 < ds2> jpa-: can drift be assumed to be roughly the same between units? If so, mounting units such that Z = -Z, X = -X, Y = -Y between them should help
2020-04-23T11:54:10 < jpa-> for small amount of units, you'd probably be best off taking the median of units mounted in different directions
2020-04-23T11:54:30 < jpa-> because that would eliminate the chips that drift off huge amount completely from the result
2020-04-23T11:54:46 < jpa-> otherwise you'll probably have a few that drift +-5 and one or two that drif +-20
2020-04-23T11:55:06 < ds2> good point
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2020-04-23T13:24:52 < Thorn> fuck me, it's actually playing an mp3 over i2s
2020-04-23T13:26:51 < Thorn> if someone asked me a week ago if you could actually do that with nrf52 I'd have said no
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2020-04-23T13:49:57 < Steffanx> Have any idea how much of your cpu time is spend in decoding the mp3?
2020-04-23T13:52:03 < catphish> :)
2020-04-23T13:53:24 < Thorn> I've got a led that's on while the decode is running. it's pretty dim :)
2020-04-23T13:53:50 < Thorn> (I'm too lazy to bring my scope atm)
2020-04-23T13:55:10 < Thorn> hopefully it will be able to stream data from.an sd card with remaining bus & cpu capacity
2020-04-23T13:58:34 < Thorn> (and run the softdevice of course)
2020-04-23T14:16:52 < mawk> you have to do mp3 Thorn ?
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2020-04-23T14:27:19 < Steffanx>  with dma and stuff it shouldnt be that hard Thorn.
2020-04-23T14:32:05 < mawk> at my work we have the shittest radar sensor, and my job is to get good data out of it
2020-04-23T14:32:09 < mawk> I don't think that's possible
2020-04-23T14:32:31 < mawk> so I mainly do indecent amounts of smoothing
2020-04-23T14:32:44 < mawk> but it's still wrong
2020-04-23T14:32:56 < mawk> and they don't want to upgrade the hw, they think software can fix it
2020-04-23T14:33:03 < srk> you need ML
2020-04-23T14:33:05 < srk> :D
2020-04-23T14:33:07 < mawk> lol
2020-04-23T14:33:16 < srk> it's hot nowadays
2020-04-23T14:33:18 < mawk> the ML would have to be magical
2020-04-23T14:33:22 < mawk> CSI style
2020-04-23T14:33:24 < srk> it is magical of course
2020-04-23T14:33:29 < srk> it solves all problems
2020-04-23T14:33:34 < srk> even the ones you don't have
2020-04-23T14:33:36 < mawk> lol
2020-04-23T14:33:40 < srk> cause it's ML!!!!
2020-04-23T14:33:41 < mawk> they have ML in the roadmap for 2 years now
2020-04-23T14:33:44 < mawk> but never start on it
2020-04-23T14:33:49 < mawk> for computer vision
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2020-04-23T14:34:12 < mawk> instead they hired an indian slave to manually place 3D boxes on image sets
2020-04-23T14:34:18 < mawk> I guess it's cheaper
2020-04-23T14:34:21 < srk> lol
2020-04-23T14:34:58 < Steffanx> hah i was going to suggest you to use mechanical turk earlier today
2020-04-23T14:35:13 < Steffanx> Already forgot why.
2020-04-23T14:35:29 < mawk> well I lied, the slave is indonesian
2020-04-23T14:35:31 < Steffanx> Was probably related you your magic queries and stuff
2020-04-23T14:35:37 < Steffanx> *too your
2020-04-23T14:35:43 < mawk> but it's an employee, they tried mechanical turk but it wasn't reliable enough
2020-04-23T14:35:46 < mawk> they would do a sloppy job
2020-04-23T14:36:00 < mawk> but I wouldn't do his job even if I were homeless I think
2020-04-23T14:36:15 < mawk> placing boxes in unreadable 3D point cloud all day, like staring at the Matrix screen
2020-04-23T14:36:33 < Steffanx> But you're not homeless, so you cannot know
2020-04-23T14:36:38 < mawk> they had an intern do it before, she did it at an insane pace, but she quit after a few weeks, they never found anyone else that did it that fast
2020-04-23T14:36:53 < mawk> I was jobless and evicted from my flat, close enough
2020-04-23T14:36:55 < srk> lol there was this ML startup with AGI and shit promises who just used mechanical turk beyond the scenes :D
2020-04-23T14:37:01 < mawk> lol
2020-04-23T14:37:05 < mawk> yeah there's plenty of that
2020-04-23T14:37:26 < srk> l33t
2020-04-23T14:38:04 < Steffanx> But you have a nice neighbour to entertain you mawk
2020-04-23T14:38:09 < Steffanx> that makes you less desperate.
2020-04-23T14:38:14 < mawk> lol
2020-04-23T14:38:30 < mawk> nice neighbor indeed
2020-04-23T14:38:41 < Steffanx> and his dad
2020-04-23T14:39:17 < Steffanx> i hate myself. I do remember shitty things like this, while i often forget stuff i WANT to remember.
2020-04-23T14:41:02 < Steffanx> And damn, im glad i dont have kids in those times. Im already annoyed by the kids of the neighbours enough. There is this kinder play ground in front of my house. and DAMN they are noisy and annoying.
2020-04-23T14:41:16 < srk> Steffanx: SAME :)
2020-04-23T14:41:26 < Steffanx> "MOOOMMMYY, MOMMMYYY X did this and thaat.. meeeh"
2020-04-23T14:42:18 < srk> Steffanx: we have a kindergarden right behind our houses garden, missing my 10am alarm
2020-04-23T14:43:16 < Steffanx> Hah. Sometimes it's a 7am alarm here. When they drag a shovel over the street with the metal part. Such lovely noise.
2020-04-23T14:43:16 < srk> and retarded neighbour who does airbnb so we've had some spanish family here recently with kids scream mommy all the fucking time
2020-04-23T14:43:30 < srk> for like two months
2020-04-23T14:43:33 < Steffanx> :)
2020-04-23T14:44:24 < srk> this is probably the most quiet neighborhood in the city yet the retard puts advertisement that his airbnb shit is 'Pool party friendly'
2020-04-23T14:44:56 < srk> fucking IBM manager normie
2020-04-23T14:46:46 < mawk> isn't it illegal in your town ?
2020-04-23T14:46:49 < mawk> it is in a lot of towns
2020-04-23T14:46:56 < mawk> or at least if they don't declare it, which nobody does
2020-04-23T14:46:57 < srk> now it is
2020-04-23T14:46:59 < mawk> so you can rat on him
2020-04-23T14:47:09 < Steffanx> ohno and there you have the "i dont get what i want yelling/crying". That's the best type of crying. NOT.
2020-04-23T14:47:44 < srk> mawk: well he doesn't airbnb ATM but brought some friends instead (with screaming KIDS of course)
2020-04-23T14:47:44 < Steffanx> my noise cancelling headphone cant cancel that.
2020-04-23T14:48:11 < srk> this, I have it when I hear noise from the outside thru headphones and music 
2020-04-23T14:48:28 < strata> ah yes the perks of shelter-in-place?
2020-04-23T14:48:42 < srk> I'll throw a mad teknoparty when I'm about to leave, pointing the soundsystem at his house
2020-04-23T14:48:51 < mawk> do it now
2020-04-23T14:49:00 < strata> yea wtf are they gonna do?
2020-04-23T14:49:06 < srk> call the cops :D
2020-04-23T14:49:19 < strata> are in USA?
2020-04-23T14:49:31 < srk> no, might be fine during the day tho :D
2020-04-23T14:49:48 < strata> then you're fine. if they call the cops, nothing will happen.
2020-04-23T14:50:16 < strata> but they won't call the cops
2020-04-23T14:51:51 < Steffanx> They will bring their own baseball bat?
2020-04-23T14:52:01 < srk> btw some of the restrictions imposed by government were cancelled today buy the court :D (czech rep)
2020-04-23T14:52:08 < mawk> lol
2020-04-23T14:52:10 < strata> my neighbors have 24/7 pool party all summer every summer. i cut grass and weed-eat right along their fence where their kids are playing less than 6ft away. blast dnb and death metal out my windows.
2020-04-23T14:52:18 < strata> it doesn't phase them at all
2020-04-23T14:52:25 < srk> :D
2020-04-23T14:52:26 < mawk> did they call in medical experts to the court srk ?
2020-04-23T14:52:30 < mawk> or was it a constitutional law decision
2020-04-23T14:52:37 < srk> strata: I can supply some music ;)
2020-04-23T14:52:50 < srk> strata: hardcore, breakcore .. ;)
2020-04-23T14:53:00 < mawk> don't you have like a state of emergency/full powers to the president in the constitution ?
2020-04-23T14:53:04 < strata> if they wanna be loud, i'll be loud too. but i'm weird. that kind of stuff doesn't annoy me.
2020-04-23T14:53:11 < srk> mawk: didn't read much about it yet
2020-04-23T14:53:22 < srk> strata: same and I like loud music :)
2020-04-23T14:53:26 < strata> i like loud music too
2020-04-23T14:53:28 < srk> strata: louder the better
2020-04-23T14:53:31 < srk> :D
2020-04-23T14:53:31 < Steffanx> meeh
2020-04-23T14:54:03 < strata> like today i need to go cut grass
2020-04-23T14:54:22 < strata> i was going to do it earlier around 5am while people were still sleeping
2020-04-23T14:54:24 < strata> but it was raining
2020-04-23T14:54:44 < Steffanx> Oh you're into haksel ofcourse > https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hakken
2020-04-23T14:54:46 < Thorn> meeting of the IIoT WG of the IoT Association T - 1h https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K_sJUo5FB5I
2020-04-23T14:55:36 < Thorn> mawk: I basically do have to use mp3, raw pcm would take ages to upload via BLE
2020-04-23T14:56:16 < PaulFertser> Why not ogg vorbis?
2020-04-23T14:56:53 < Thorn> is there a suitable decoder?
2020-04-23T14:57:14 < mawk> but BLE has a special codec for low power cpus right Thorn ?
2020-04-23T14:57:17 < mawk> forgot the name
2020-04-23T14:57:22 < mawk> it's mandatory in the spec
2020-04-23T14:58:19 < Thorn> opus?
2020-04-23T14:58:45 < mawk> lc3 ??
2020-04-23T14:58:47 < mawk> lc3? *
2020-04-23T14:59:55 < PaulFertser> They say https://gitlab.xiph.org/xiph/tremor is suitable for embedded
2020-04-23T15:00:07 < mawk> yeah lc3 is the mandatory optimized codec
2020-04-23T15:00:10 < mawk> but it's IP
2020-04-23T15:00:13 < karlp> does it matter now that mp3 patents are expired?
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2020-04-23T15:00:51 < PaulFertser> rockbox decodes ogg too
2020-04-23T15:01:03 < Steffanx> but EVERYONE knows mp3.
2020-04-23T15:01:06 < PaulFertser> karlp: I thought vorbis is all-around better than mp3 regardless the patents issue
2020-04-23T15:01:07 < Steffanx> my dad has no clue what ogg is
2020-04-23T15:01:35 < mawk> tell them it's mp3 anyway
2020-04-23T15:01:42 < mawk> ignorance is bliss
2020-04-23T15:01:46 < PaulFertser> https://community.st.com/s/question/0D50X00009Xki7bSAB/ogg-vorbis-decoding-with-stm32f103re-works :)
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2020-04-23T15:02:05 < mawk> do you like logic PaulFertser ?
2020-04-23T15:02:26 < PaulFertser> mawk: not enough to understand anything about it :(
2020-04-23T15:02:37 < mawk> :(
2020-04-23T15:02:46 < PaulFertser> https://github.com/nothings/stb/blob/master/stb_vorbis.c actively maintained it seems, single file
2020-04-23T15:02:51 < srk> any good players for rockbox around nowadays? something like sandisk sansa
2020-04-23T15:03:06 < Steffanx> but can you download .oggs using some random youtube to mp3 converter mawk?
2020-04-23T15:03:18 < mawk> if it's a god-sanctioned one yes
2020-04-23T15:03:33 < mawk> and you wouldn't want to dissatisfy god
2020-04-23T15:05:00 < PaulFertser> Steffanx: youtube only offers opus and mp4a for audio.
2020-04-23T15:05:25 < Steffanx> Google "google youtube to mp3" .
2020-04-23T15:05:44 < Steffanx> -google
2020-04-23T15:06:16 < PaulFertser> Steffanx: no, you just run "youtube-dl -F drvxGGtuTu4" (or any other video)
2020-04-23T15:06:32 < Steffanx> You and me perhaps. But not my sister or dad.
2020-04-23T15:07:50 < PaulFertser> I mean to see what formats are downloadable from youtube. -F means list formats.
2020-04-23T15:09:18 < Steffanx> oh, but its irrelevant what yt offers. What's only relevant is what my sister and/or dad wants in the end.
2020-04-23T15:10:07 < PaulFertser> If you search for a converter to mp3 of course you get mp3. If you search for a converter to vorbis you get vorbis...
2020-04-23T15:10:14 < PaulFertser> (ogg is a container)
2020-04-23T15:15:29 < Thorn> >Specifications will be published during the first half of 2020. Afaik specs will be public but some kind of qualification may be required.  <-- on LC3
2020-04-23T15:15:45 < Steffanx> PaulFertser: but vorbis or ogg is not what yhey would even look for. :P
2020-04-23T15:16:28 < Thorn> anyway I'm not doing BLE Audio, this is a custom profile
2020-04-23T15:23:11 < Thorn> where is my microsd card?
2020-04-23T15:28:37 < Steffanx> i have one on my pocket. but.. thats no use for you.
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2020-04-23T15:40:31 < Thorn> I found my microsd card
2020-04-23T15:46:39 < Thorn> https://devzone.nordicsemi.com/f/nordic-q-a/56892/bluetooth-le-audio---question
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2020-04-23T16:02:13 < Steffanx> Arent you a moneyed russianer with a shitloads of usd cards Thorn?
2020-04-23T16:02:43 < Thorn> I only have 2 as a matter of fact
2020-04-23T16:04:20 < zyp> I feel like I've got a bunch of usd cards, but I've always got a hard time locating them when I need them
2020-04-23T16:05:02 < zyp> found some reasonably priced ones in jp, so I bought five
2020-04-23T16:06:12 < Steffanx> I don't have a shitload, but I printed this to organise them a bit: http://imgur.com/a/39bOjPn
2020-04-23T16:22:52 < Thorn> https://doc.qt.io/QtForMCUs/qtul-using-with-freertos.html
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2020-04-23T16:29:54 < karlp> yeah, I bought a bunch rfecently, and got a little case for them 
2020-04-23T16:30:22 < karlp> Thorn: still talking about freertos 10.0.1?
2020-04-23T16:31:07 < karlp> that's commercial only nayway isn't it?
2020-04-23T16:33:17 < Thorn> probably
2020-04-23T16:33:25 < Thorn> haven't really looked at it
2020-04-23T16:37:02 < Thorn> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K_sJUo5FB5I iot cat
2020-04-23T16:37:18 < Thorn> gone
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2020-04-23T16:44:02 < kakinull> guy is planning destruction of western countries?
2020-04-23T16:45:18 < kakinull> laying out the attack plan?
2020-04-23T16:45:31 < karlp> what were we meant ot be looking at on that qtul page thorn?
2020-04-23T16:55:39 < Thorn> kakinull: yes, and showing off his cat
2020-04-23T16:56:34 < kakimir> it's all good
2020-04-23T16:57:06 < Thorn> karlp: dunno, I've just never heard of qt for mcu before
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2020-04-23T17:11:02 < mawk> 15:31 <karlp> that's commercial only nayway isn't it?
2020-04-23T17:11:09 < mawk> the freertos guy said it would always be free or something
2020-04-23T17:11:16 < mawk> when he got tricked by amazon
2020-04-23T17:11:27 < mawk> so he sold his soul
2020-04-23T17:12:20 < strata> oh come on mawk. people don't sell their souls to amazon. they give their souls. lord bezos is a loving god.
2020-04-23T17:12:26 < mawk> lol
2020-04-23T17:19:59 < Thorn> Nordick makes good chips but their sdk_config.h must be printed out and read aloud at the funeral of whoever came up with the idea
2020-04-23T17:23:14 < catphish> wtf has happened to DHL? just noticed my delivery date isn't monday, it's monday 4th :|
2020-04-23T17:23:33 < catphish> 11 days :(
2020-04-23T17:24:16 < Mangy_Dog> ok have a serious question... as you maybe know i mostly rely on rogerclarks core for stm32f103... its one of the reasons ive not branched out to other chips... this core basically brings an arduino like experience (i guess that means arduino naming conventions for gpio and the setup/loop seperation where most just use main) and also obviouse has loads of libraries pre built or easy to port 
2020-04-23T17:24:16 < Mangy_Dog> over...... Sooooooooooo when you lot write your programs... how do you setup your dev enviroments? are you just using another off the shelf core?
2020-04-23T17:25:14 < Mangy_Dog> do they have all the periphial libraries built in?
2020-04-23T17:25:20 < catphish> i use ST's supplied header files, they name everything nicely, no other libraries
2020-04-23T17:25:28 < strata> my dev environment is vim and Makefile that is either generated by stm32cubemx or cloned from the libopencm3 template repo
2020-04-23T17:25:52 < mawk> what do you mean by core ?
2020-04-23T17:26:03 < strata> core would be like HAL
2020-04-23T17:26:13 < mawk> I use the ST HAL yes
2020-04-23T17:26:18 < Mangy_Dog> strata cubeMX builds a base program for you? and then you just take that to eclipse or something.... and write the rest of your program?
2020-04-23T17:26:20 < mawk> the thing cubemx generates
2020-04-23T17:26:27 < mawk> yes Mangy_Dog if you replace eclipse by emacs
2020-04-23T17:26:30 < strata> rogerclark's "core" is like the middleware between the chip and an arduino experience or w/e i think?
2020-04-23T17:26:53 < strata> since people in the avr world use arduino core
2020-04-23T17:27:06 < Mangy_Dog> im just trying to figure out what i need to do to write my stuff withour rogers core... whats th epropper way, so to speak
2020-04-23T17:27:13 < strata> or other cores - but it's all more or less that setup() and loop() paragidm everyone's used to
2020-04-23T17:27:37 < strata> there is no proper way.
2020-04-23T17:27:51 < Mangy_Dog> well and that rogers core only suports a few chips
2020-04-23T17:28:07 < Mangy_Dog> and admitidly now that hes no longer developing it.... its going go go out of date
2020-04-23T17:29:14 < strata> stm32cubemx can generate a "Makefile project"
2020-04-23T17:29:53 < strata> it sets up the needed libs and puts some files in there to do all the part configuration you set up in the GUI
2020-04-23T17:30:04 < Mangy_Dog> hmm
2020-04-23T17:30:07 < strata> clocks, io, timers, etc.
2020-04-23T17:30:07 < Mangy_Dog> ok
2020-04-23T17:30:10 < strata> peripherals
2020-04-23T17:30:15 < Mangy_Dog> that actually sounds easy enough
2020-04-23T17:30:33 < strata> then there will be comment blocks in the code it generates where you can place your "user code"
2020-04-23T17:30:41 < mawk> you can use hal stuff Mangy_Dog 
2020-04-23T17:30:43 < mawk> like strata says
2020-04-23T17:30:47 < mawk> then you build using arm gcc
2020-04-23T17:30:49 < mawk> like a real pro
2020-04-23T17:30:55 < Mangy_Dog> tbh i dont know HAL
2020-04-23T17:30:57 < Mangy_Dog> sooooooo
2020-04-23T17:31:01 < Mangy_Dog> thats a learning curve
2020-04-23T17:31:05 < mawk> it's not very hard
2020-04-23T17:31:08 < strata> it's not really a learning curve
2020-04-23T17:31:09 < mawk> I learnt it just by looking at header fil
2020-04-23T17:31:18 < strata> i picked it up in less than a day. if you already know arduino, it's easy.
2020-04-23T17:31:25 < Mangy_Dog> oh
2020-04-23T17:31:34 < Mangy_Dog> is it just an alternative naming scructure?
2020-04-23T17:31:41 < strata> pretty much.
2020-04-23T17:31:56 < strata> you'll need to read the source code and headers in the generated project a lot
2020-04-23T17:32:05 < Mangy_Dog> hmm
2020-04-23T17:32:09 < strata> it's all documented in the source
2020-04-23T17:32:48 < strata> there's like at least 2:1 documentation-in-comments to code ratio in the generated HAL files
2020-04-23T17:32:59 < Mangy_Dog> and.... how do i set up the build enviroments for windows? most of the videos ive seen on it seem to pretty much entirely rely on linux terminal to install
2020-04-23T17:33:18 < strata> all you need is an arm toolchain
2020-04-23T17:34:39 < strata> i wouldn't bother with eclipse unless you really like being a masochist
2020-04-23T17:34:45 < Mangy_Dog> yeah
2020-04-23T17:34:50 < Mangy_Dog> its not really fun
2020-04-23T17:34:55 < Mangy_Dog> ive used it for a few years
2020-04-23T17:35:04 < Mangy_Dog> but i feel like i spend more time fixing it than i do coding in it
2020-04-23T17:35:37 < Mangy_Dog> what would you recommend?
2020-04-23T17:35:50 < strata> https://developer.arm.com/tools-and-software/open-source-software/developer-tools/gnu-toolchain/gnu-rm/downloads
2020-04-23T17:35:54 < Mangy_Dog> ideally with a decent code completion tool
2020-04-23T17:36:03 < strata> use that for your toolchain
2020-04-23T17:36:14 < strata> and then use whatever code editor you want
2020-04-23T17:36:19 < strata> notepad++ even
2020-04-23T17:36:27 < strata> it doesn't matter as long as it suits you
2020-04-23T17:37:07 < Mangy_Dog> what do you use?
2020-04-23T17:37:11 < mawk> emacs
2020-04-23T17:37:13 < mawk> of course
2020-04-23T17:37:18 < Mangy_Dog> never heard of emacs :p
2020-04-23T17:37:22 < mawk> :(
2020-04-23T17:42:54 < strata> if you don't like HAL, try libopencm3
2020-04-23T17:45:02 < strata> i cheat with stm32cubemx to get all the initialization stuff figured out and then write it in libopencm3
2020-04-23T17:47:28 < Cracki> killer feature for libopencm3: do their own cubemx but better
2020-04-23T17:48:32 < strata> Cracki: start coding it. call it Crackrock32
2020-04-23T17:48:41 < strata> i'll be your first customer
2020-04-23T17:48:54 < Steffanx> Welcome btw strata. Are you new to the ##stm32-gang?
2020-04-23T17:49:08 < strata> no. i'm your favorite tinfoil hat retard doomba
2020-04-23T17:49:26 < Steffanx> SURPRISE!
2020-04-23T17:49:57 < Steffanx> Does TOR make you feel great again?
2020-04-23T17:50:10 < strata> no
2020-04-23T17:50:21 < mawk> too slow to feel great
2020-04-23T17:50:38 < strata> the insane lag isn't bad for irc
2020-04-23T17:50:56 < strata> getting occasionally disconnected is much less frequent than i anticipated
2020-04-23T17:52:41 < Steffanx> Who's coming for you that you need this new tinfoil hat and protection?
2020-04-23T17:53:11 < strata> the reptilian shapeshifter people of my delusions, who else?
2020-04-23T17:53:36 < Steffanx> ah, its that bad.
2020-04-23T17:53:43 < Steffanx> Drugs are baad, mkay?
2020-04-23T17:54:47 < strata> i'm running a tor bridge node - and figured it can't hurt to put irc through tor too
2020-04-23T17:54:57 < strata> bridge relay, rather
2020-04-23T17:55:20 < strata> holy shit i think i just got my PEPPER JOE SEEDZ
2020-04-23T18:06:12 < strata> https://i.postimg.cc/J48mVMV6/IMG-20200423-105851.jpg
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2020-04-23T18:14:40 < Cracki> those things probably have some defense/warfare value
2020-04-23T18:14:41 < karlp> mawk: I was talking abotu qt, not freertos :)
2020-04-23T18:16:45 < Streaker> only 5 seeds? What if they don't germinate?
2020-04-23T18:22:28 < Cracki> chances are he'll get something out of it
2020-04-23T18:22:49 < Cracki> it's a raid array, except it replicates itself
2020-04-23T18:23:22 < qyx> karlp: the hub is HOT
2020-04-23T18:23:35 < strata> Cracki:  ya exactly
2020-04-23T18:23:45 < strata> all i need is for one of them to germinate
2020-04-23T18:23:56 < qyx> karlp: but otherwise works, detected in lunix
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2020-04-23T18:25:10 < Cracki> how do peppers fuck? do they self pollinate or do they need companionship
2020-04-23T18:25:41 < Cracki> ah, self pollinating, how convenient
2020-04-23T18:26:12 < kakimir> fuck implies physical activity
2020-04-23T18:27:49 < zyp> nah, you don't have to do anything physical to fuck off
2020-04-23T18:28:16 < kakimir> no
2020-04-23T18:28:26 < kakimir> to fuck off you need to move your presense
2020-04-23T18:28:38 < Cracki> you can stand still and have everyone else move
2020-04-23T18:28:45 < kakimir> *presence
2020-04-23T18:28:55 < Cracki> that's how politics works, some stand their ground and suddenly they're on the fringe
2020-04-23T18:41:23 < Laurenceb> fucking media reee
2020-04-23T18:41:46 < Laurenceb> >suddenly its obvious that coronavirus will continue for years
2020-04-23T18:41:55 < Laurenceb> >yeah its always been like htis
2020-04-23T18:43:34 < englishman> NY state has 2x percap deaths than any other country
2020-04-23T18:44:28 < Cracki> cities _are_ a disease
2020-04-23T18:44:50 < aandrew> lol self pollination preppers
2020-04-23T18:45:28 < Laurenceb> the worst thing is uk media were saying stuff about it maybe lasting years a few days ago
2020-04-23T18:45:35 < Laurenceb> obvious briefing in the background
2020-04-23T18:46:05 < englishman> canada post no longer refunding postage for late shipments
2020-04-23T18:46:10 < englishman> "performance standards are suspended"
2020-04-23T18:46:11 < englishman> bastards
2020-04-23T18:47:57 < kakimir> well shit
2020-04-23T18:48:13 < catphish> DHL are quoting me 11 days for a international priority package :(
2020-04-23T18:48:30 < kakimir> beggars are not choosers
2020-04-23T18:48:56 < kakimir> how are shipping prices?
2020-04-23T18:51:22 < karlp> qyx: usb2514 on yorus right? yeah, I have a usb hub from microchip on another hting and its definitely hot
2020-04-23T18:51:36 < karlp> like was pointed out, some of the china ones use wayyy less power,
2020-04-23T18:51:44 < karlp> but docs+obtainium...
2020-04-23T18:52:09 < englishman> genesys replied to my emails in <24hr
2020-04-23T18:52:29 < karlp> also, 7 ports...
2020-04-23T18:52:32 < englishman> they were far easier to integrate and about 1/5 cost of this domestic trash
2020-04-23T18:52:57 < karlp> most of the china ones are 4 port, and fucking with configs for chained devices was not on my list of things I wanted to save on
2020-04-23T18:53:38 < zyp> karlp, I'm a bit tempted to add a hub module to the usb fpga stuff I'm doing, not that it's ever gonna be cheaper to put down a fpga rather than a hub chip, but still
2020-04-23T18:54:57 < zyp> the downside is of course that HS requires external PHY and nobody is gonna roll a board with a ton of HS PHYs
2020-04-23T18:55:18 < zyp> but I imagine a HS upstream port and a bunch of FS downstream ports is feasible
2020-04-23T18:59:31 < karlp> totally for board farming shit, though putting an fpga is speical there too :)
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2020-04-23T19:32:50 < zyp> yeah, it's mostly just a fun exercise
2020-04-23T19:33:28 < zyp> I figure I'll have a go at it once I've got those pmods I designed and something suitable to plug them into
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2020-04-23T20:16:44 < jpa-> zyp: why not ton HS PHYs, they aren't that expensive
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2020-04-23T21:51:32 < qyx> dookausb2517, active upstream + one downstream
2020-04-23T21:51:34 < qyx> meh
2020-04-23T21:51:36 < qyx> karlp: ^
2020-04-23T22:11:11 < Thorn> I need to start a company and call it Dooka Semiconductor, Inc.
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2020-04-23T22:37:16 < Thorn> can you use ordinary mosfets to switch HDMI?
2020-04-23T22:45:03 < Ultrasauce> picturing a bunch of TO-220s next to an hdmi port
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2020-04-23T22:51:35 < aandrew> lol
2020-04-23T22:58:15 < Thorn> what about sot-23 or similar
2020-04-23T22:59:42 < Thorn> there're rf switches in such packages
2020-04-23T22:59:55 < Thorn> so it should be doable?
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2020-04-23T23:13:02 < Ultrasauce> remember the gate capacitance goes both ways
2020-04-23T23:23:13 < Ultrasauce> i guess which hdmi spec you're targeting will make the difference in whether a ghetto discrete implementation is in the cards
2020-04-23T23:25:47 < Ultrasauce> like 1.2 is probably doable even with 74hc4053 or whatever
2020-04-23T23:27:53 < Ultrasauce> but this sounds like a dumb idea and possibly not cheaper than a china asic
2020-04-23T23:32:13 < Ultrasauce> PI3HDMI412AD
2020-04-23T23:32:23 < qyx> hey usb pros, I have a cp2102n connected to a usb hub this way https://i.imgur.com/Ub4DO4D.png
2020-04-23T23:32:29 < qyx> it doesn't enumerate
2020-04-23T23:32:32 < qyx> it enumerated once
2020-04-23T23:33:18 < qyx> cp2102n and usb2517 hub are powered by the same 3V3 power supply
2020-04-23T23:34:04 < qyx> together with a linux module, which is the upstream for the hub
2020-04-23T23:34:31 < qyx> the question is if it is legit to start the hub and cp2102n before the linux boots
2020-04-23T23:35:59 < englishman> give the reset line a boop and find out?
2020-04-23T23:36:24 < Steffanx> "In all cases, a 1 kΩ pull-up on the RSTb pin is recommended" qyx doesnt like recommendations?
2020-04-23T23:36:32 < fenugrec> IIRC there is such a thing as a clone CP210x, unreliable AF
2020-04-23T23:37:02 < qyx> Steffanx: fuk
2020-04-23T23:37:23 < qyx> it is not in the datasheet schematic
2020-04-23T23:37:24 < Steffanx> A recommendations is not a "must" though :P
2020-04-23T23:37:51 < qyx> I did never have any problems with cp2102n though
2020-04-23T23:37:56 < qyx> except this one
2020-04-23T23:38:28 < Steffanx> also: "The RSTb pin will be driven lowduring power-on and power failure reset events" , so perhaps it is an issue to not have a pullup
2020-04-23T23:39:35 < Ultrasauce> Thorn: er i got it backwards
2020-04-23T23:39:43 < Ultrasauce> PI3HDMI336 is 3:1 and like 2 bucks in singles
2020-04-23T23:40:45 < Ultrasauce> and does all the fancy stuff you need for it to not completely suck
2020-04-23T23:40:51 < qyx> englishman: did not help
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2020-04-23T23:40:55 < Ultrasauce> thanks mass market
2020-04-23T23:43:05 < qyx> lets check soldering
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2020-04-23T23:51:19 < qyx> https://i.imgur.com/VP5MO0j.png
2020-04-23T23:51:50 < qyx> that aisler's solder mask is worse than seeed/jlcpcb
2020-04-23T23:53:41 < englishman> yikes
2020-04-23T23:53:56 < Thorn> what is TI9AJ?
2020-04-23T23:54:25 < qyx> THVD1450
2020-04-23T23:55:16 < Thorn> oh nice thanks
2020-04-23T23:55:45 < Mangy_Dog> oh shit thats nasty
--- Day changed Fri Apr 24 2020
2020-04-24T00:02:02 < qyx> uhm the second cp2102 stopped working
2020-04-24T00:02:13 < qyx> it is becoming serious
2020-04-24T00:06:10 < Steffanx> When I googled for schematics for the cp2102n I came across a post on the silabs about chips that stopped working
2020-04-24T00:06:26 < Steffanx> Silabs forum*
2020-04-24T00:08:35 < Steffanx> Does it get hot as well?
2020-04-24T00:08:54 < qyx> no
2020-04-24T00:09:10 < qyx> there are two, one is connected to the hub, the other one is connected to usb micro-b connector
2020-04-24T00:09:18 < qyx> it is used as a serial console bridge
2020-04-24T00:11:07 < qyx> the console one is working again, probably a bad cable /o\
2020-04-24T00:11:44 < Steffanx> Power only cable?
2020-04-24T00:13:16 < qyx> no, I replugged it a few times and works again
2020-04-24T00:13:21 < qyx> quite repeatably
2020-04-24T00:13:36 < qyx> I am more interested in the other one
2020-04-24T00:17:01 < qyx> interesting is also the fact that the hub is detected as a 6 port only
2020-04-24T00:23:59 < zyp> how's that aisler mask bad? I'm not sure I see it
2020-04-24T00:24:51 < qyx> it is uneven
2020-04-24T00:25:10 < zyp> also, IIRC USB2517 can be strapped to disable ports, maybe it thinks the cp2102n is a strap to disable the port
2020-04-24T00:26:09 < Cracki> thin near heights, see vias and edges of copper areas
2020-04-24T00:26:14 < zyp> ah, depends what you have CFG_SEL set to
2020-04-24T00:26:27 < Cracki> my boss uses them too, hasn't complained much about this
2020-04-24T00:26:51 < qyx> zyp: yeah it should not matter, I have cfg_sel at [000]
2020-04-24T00:27:20 < zyp> 000 says «Strap options are enabled»
2020-04-24T00:27:41 < qyx> wait what
2020-04-24T00:27:43 < qyx> am I dumb
2020-04-24T00:28:20 < Steffanx> Heh
2020-04-24T00:28:25 < zyp> to disable a port, apparently you pull up dp and dm with 10k
2020-04-24T00:29:10 < qyx> 110 is the right one
2020-04-24T00:29:14 < qyx> fukit
2020-04-24T00:29:34 < zyp> not sure why the cp2102 would do that
2020-04-24T00:31:45 < qyx> so I should pull up cfg_Sel1 and cfg_sel2 instead
2020-04-24T00:31:55 < qyx> of pulling them down
2020-04-24T00:33:13 < zyp> jpa-, just seems like a lot of pointless complexity
2020-04-24T00:35:33 < qyx> Bus 001 Device 003: ID 10c4:ea60 Cygnal Integrated Products, Inc. CP2102/CP2109 UART Bridge Controller [CP210x family]
2020-04-24T00:35:37 < qyx> zyp: I owe you a beer
2020-04-24T00:35:48 < zyp> cool
2020-04-24T00:36:40 < zyp> jpa-, each phy would need 8 or 12 signals (depending on whether you run the data lines in ddr mode or not, which not all of them supports), compared to 2 if you're doing a FS PHY directly in the FPGA
2020-04-24T00:40:06 < Thorn> seems like it's all still free https://resourcecenter.sscs.ieee.org/carousel
2020-04-24T00:40:24 < aandrew> I ordered entirely too many bearings from aliexpress
2020-04-24T00:40:37 < zyp> jpa-, to do e.g. a 7-port hub you'd need eight phys plus the FPGA, config storage and several voltage regulators, routing at least 64 FPGA-PHY signals, and that's a lot of complexity compared to just putting down a USB2517 that can run from a single supply
2020-04-24T00:42:31 < Steffanx> What is too many aandrew 
2020-04-24T00:45:00 < zyp> jpa-, if you instead use the same FPGA to build a HS upstream, FS downstream hub, the same 64 signal lines can give you an upstream port and 28 downstream ports, and now we're suddenly approaching lower hardware complexity than a solution based on five USB2517 chips or whatever
2020-04-24T00:45:01 < aandrew> Steffanx: 50 3x8x3, 10 3x10x3, 50 3x10x4, 50 2x5x2.3, 10 17x35x10
2020-04-24T00:45:14 < aandrew> actually that's not exactly accurate
2020-04-24T00:45:37 < qyx> zyp: the cp.. is the only usb device connected to a downstram port which is powered up at the same time as the hub
2020-04-24T00:45:56 < zyp> qyx, how is the hub reset?
2020-04-24T00:45:57 < qyx> so probably some startup glitch or default state of the dp/dm pins
2020-04-24T00:46:11 < zyp> I'm guessing maybe it'd help to keep the hub in reset longer
2020-04-24T00:46:21 < qyx> 100k/100n
2020-04-24T00:46:25 < qyx> hm
2020-04-24T00:46:26 < zyp> moot anyway if you disable the straps
2020-04-24T00:46:45 < qyx> yeah but I can test the options tomorrow
2020-04-24T00:47:01 < qyx> I'll try to replace 100n with 1u too
2020-04-24T00:51:19 < zyp> I wonder why everybody are so uptight with the datasheets for their crosspoint switches
2020-04-24T00:52:17 < aandrew> the 3x10x3 are u-groove. also got a bunch of tiny bushings (50ea of 3x6x3.5, 3x7x16 and 1x3x1
2020-04-24T00:52:29 < zyp> apart from Analog, they actually have open datasheets for everything: https://www.analog.com/en/products/switches-multiplexers/digital-crosspoint-switches.html
2020-04-24T00:52:31 < aandrew> sick and tired of not having shit on hand when I want to mess with something
2020-04-24T00:54:16 < Cracki> what are you innovating with bearings
2020-04-24T00:54:33 < aandrew> nothing yet. just messing around
2020-04-24T00:54:53 < Cracki> heh. what past projects made you think of stocking bearings?
2020-04-24T00:54:56 < aandrew> also got the guts of a spot welder and some tips
2020-04-24T00:56:20 < Steffanx> :)
2020-04-24T00:56:21 < Cracki> rn I'm sampling aliexpress for dc motors with optical encoders. there's a 96 cpr one that can go crazy fast but it has unbearable cogging
2020-04-24T00:56:27 < aandrew> https://twitter.com/nixie_guy/status/1251910947523960833 is the start of it. being able to cobble something together is nice though
2020-04-24T00:56:53 < Cracki> they have another with 334 cpr and the motor is a mabuchi so I have high hopes for that turning smoother at glacial speeds
2020-04-24T00:57:13 < Cracki> ooh robot arm drive
2020-04-24T00:57:44 < Cracki> a bunch of bearings, some shafts, some timing pulleys and a belt
2020-04-24T01:00:02 < Cracki> the kuka, abb, ... robot arms use differentials and a bunch of belts too
2020-04-24T01:02:02 < Steffanx> I'm confused. Aandrew is the nixie guy?
2020-04-24T01:02:23 < Cracki> wait... he's using some kind of worm gear in there, but with some insane cable routing
2020-04-24T01:03:05 < Cracki> or not. eh. those pics show so little
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2020-04-24T01:06:52 < Cracki> aandrew, is that you?
2020-04-24T01:11:08 < aandrew> no that is not me
2020-04-24T01:11:12 < aandrew> some dude I follow
2020-04-24T01:11:21 < aandrew> well pretty sure it's a dude
2020-04-24T01:11:49 < Cracki> >_> so you wanna replicate his experiment I take it
2020-04-24T01:12:21 < Cracki> some staring at the schematic enlightened me. it's an interesting differential. I even understand the cable routing now
2020-04-24T01:15:19 < Cracki> hah they discuss absolute linear/rotary encoder schemes https://twitter.com/tomfleet/status/1252914979201744896
2020-04-24T01:19:15 < aandrew> I *kind* of understand what he's doing, but it seems he's got a continuous loop, not fixed ends like a chinese windlass
2020-04-24T01:19:25 < Cracki> yes
2020-04-24T01:19:46 < Cracki> it's some X minus Y kinda deal
2020-04-24T01:19:55 < aandrew> so in that case it's teh funny "vertical" bearings that are getting pulled back and forth by the cable winding around the large or small pulley
2020-04-24T01:20:02 < Cracki> when he turns, X += 1.01 Y -= 1.00
2020-04-24T01:20:12 < Cracki> ye
2020-04-24T01:21:05 < Cracki> like those meccano wheels or those plotters where both motors spin if you want to make a straight move
2020-04-24T01:21:58 < aandrew> right
2020-04-24T01:22:18 < Cracki> saw a picture where he tied the steel cable with a square knot
2020-04-24T01:22:27 < aandrew> I don't specifically want to play with that design, but it reminded me that i have a terrible shortage of mechanical bits
2020-04-24T01:23:00 < Cracki> the most severe shortage of mechanical bits I have is the lack of a 3d printer
2020-04-24T01:24:01 < aandrew> got that, have larger bearings (608), got a fair bit of smooth and M8 threaded rod, a bunch of miscellaneous plastic gears, 2mm and 3mm dia pins, that kind of stuff
2020-04-24T01:25:28 < aandrew> also have a bunch of pneumatic bits (mostly 6mm) tube and ptc connections/tees/etc
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2020-04-24T02:22:21 < Cracki> the lack of education on mech engineering stops me from doing much. stuff like keys and keyways on shafts, or how to mount various bearings...
2020-04-24T02:22:49 < aandrew> yeah, I lack that as well
2020-04-24T02:38:45 < Cracki> AvE, this old tony, ... yt provides osmosis
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2020-04-24T02:43:32 < aandrew> yeah, I also found professor... shit on emoment
2020-04-24T02:43:52 < aandrew> professor leonard
2020-04-24T02:44:03 < aandrew> who has a really good set of videos on pre-calc, calc and beyond
2020-04-24T02:44:18 < aandrew> which isn't anything at all about mech, but is something else on my list
2020-04-24T02:44:44 < Cracki> I'd trust that dude to organize my workouts
2020-04-24T02:46:09 < catphish> Cracki: get learning :)
2020-04-24T02:46:26 < Cracki> all this "university level" stuff is only hard because universities don't care if you practice ANY of it, so you build up a tower of wobbly sticks, unless you look for practice problems
2020-04-24T02:46:41 < aandrew> yeah he's pretty fit
2020-04-24T02:46:52 < Cracki> I've been learning for way too long now. I'm going crazy not using much of it.
2020-04-24T02:47:28 < Cracki> if I had a 3d printer or a lathe or anything I'd probably spend all day and half the night with that
2020-04-24T02:47:54 < aandrew> yeah 
2020-04-24T02:48:06 < aandrew> I've got a bridgeport that I have to get a motor for, but still need to find a nice lathe
2020-04-24T02:48:13 < aandrew> mill is full manual, no DRO even
2020-04-24T02:48:21 < Cracki> there are probably ingenious ways to turn a sphere into a cube with nothing but a lathe
2020-04-24T02:48:21 < aandrew> good for learning and for losing fingers
2020-04-24T02:48:42 < aandrew> well generally speaking the mill makes things flat, and the lathe makes things round
2020-04-24T02:48:45 < Cracki> I've got more fingers than a cat has lives
2020-04-24T02:49:04 < Cracki> that's the joke
2020-04-24T02:49:10 < aandrew> lol
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2020-04-24T02:49:43 < Cracki> some years ago at a customer's I saw a surface plate. he used it as a flat surface to put junk on.
2020-04-24T02:49:47 < Cracki> didn't know what it was
2020-04-24T02:50:00 < Cracki> the principle of how they're made is interesting
2020-04-24T02:50:40 < aandrew> oh yeah I saw some yt vid on an old fart who was talking about absolute flatness and perfection and so on
2020-04-24T02:50:51 < aandrew> it just astounds me that you can lap something and make it flat flat
2020-04-24T02:50:57 < aandrew> it seems so... random
2020-04-24T02:50:58 < Cracki> thanks to ToT I know what a DRO is. DRO must be like programming with a debugger, and no DRO is like drafting programs on paper
2020-04-24T02:51:36 < Cracki> ye true flat is created with three surfaces ground against each other in turn. just two could make it curved.
2020-04-24T02:51:56 < Cracki> or true right angles
2020-04-24T02:51:57 < aandrew> TOT = this old tony? another good one
2020-04-24T02:52:10 < Cracki> turn a cylinder, turn a face, stand that on a flat surface
2020-04-24T02:52:12 < Cracki> ye
2020-04-24T02:52:41 < aandrew> but yeah this old fart was going on about flatness and how if you were stranded on a desert island how you could get your machine shop back in short order by first getting something flat, and this is how you get flat
2020-04-24T02:52:57 < aandrew> talking about doing it with flatish rocks
2020-04-24T02:53:18 < jadew> all those machining videos make me want to buy an industrial location so I can fill it with metal work junk
2020-04-24T02:53:27 < jadew> like... that's the plan
2020-04-24T02:53:34 < Cracki> *handrubbing*
2020-04-24T02:53:56 < Cracki> if you can't have a machine shop, you can have friends with machine shops
2020-04-24T02:54:33 < jadew> I'd rather have a machine shop tho
2020-04-24T02:54:34 < aandrew> yes that's kind of my plan as well
2020-04-24T02:54:36 < kakinull45> jadew: metal junk can wear you down
2020-04-24T02:54:40 < aandrew> except I don't want friends, they consume time
2020-04-24T02:54:44 < kakinull45> have good junk at least
2020-04-24T02:54:52 < aandrew> I want land and a shop and a budget that allows me to have stock
2020-04-24T02:55:00 < jadew> kakinull45, well, yeah
2020-04-24T02:55:01 < kakinull45> it's like playing around in shit but it's metal
2020-04-24T02:55:10 < jadew> lol
2020-04-24T02:55:19 < aandrew> although being able to do this stuff with wood is a fuckton cheaper too and 99% of the time just as good
2020-04-24T02:55:26 < kakinull45> only premium junks
2020-04-24T02:55:36 < jadew> except wood isn't good at blocking EMI
2020-04-24T02:55:45 < kakinull45> are you high on 5G?
2020-04-24T02:55:51 < aandrew> true, but you can paint/tape it with copper
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2020-04-24T02:56:13 < Cracki> which reminds me, gotta set the wifi SSID to something 5G
2020-04-24T02:56:29 < Cracki> people around here are going absolutely nuts
2020-04-24T02:56:37 < jadew> 5G Full Power
2020-04-24T02:56:51 < aandrew> 5G GAY MODE ENABLED
2020-04-24T02:56:54 < jadew> or 5G (99% Power)
2020-04-24T02:57:00 < Cracki> numbers going down yet these people just chucked all plans for the whole summer
2020-04-24T02:57:00 < aandrew> 5G CORONA-ENH
2020-04-24T02:57:23 < jadew> Cracki, they're not 0
2020-04-24T02:57:27 < Cracki> I wish 5G were real, then someone could hack it and use it as a ray gun to lobotomize all those sheep
2020-04-24T02:57:47 < jadew> 5G is real, the threat is not :P
2020-04-24T02:57:50 < Cracki> we'll never reach 0
2020-04-24T02:57:57 < Cracki> if you demand 0, just end this planet now
2020-04-24T02:58:05 < karlp> qyx: oh, didn't know you needed 7 ports on your stuff :) neat
2020-04-24T02:58:25 < jadew> Cracki, we got to 0 with a lot of other shit, it's doable
2020-04-24T02:58:45 < Cracki> doable, but at what cost
2020-04-24T02:58:52 < Cracki> I say it's unreasonable to demand that
2020-04-24T02:59:04 < aandrew> .ro is at zero?
2020-04-24T02:59:09 < jadew> don't know man... lots of young people are dying in here from it
2020-04-24T02:59:14 < jadew> it's not, but declining
2020-04-24T02:59:21 < Cracki> north korea is fluctuating between 0 and 1 and then 0 again
2020-04-24T02:59:22 < jadew> young with no comorbidities
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2020-04-24T03:00:06 < Cracki> our corpses' median age is 82
2020-04-24T03:00:13 < jadew> well, NK could be mostly empty
2020-04-24T03:00:21 < Cracki> so that could mean 50% babies and 50% 164 year olds die
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2020-04-24T03:00:37 < Cracki> but 80% are over 70, which shapes that distribution
2020-04-24T03:00:41 < aandrew> I need to get an optical bench, or make one
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2020-04-24T03:00:42 < Cracki> 86% even
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2020-04-24T03:00:46 < Cracki> yay optical bench
2020-04-24T03:00:54 < Cracki> those fuckers are so sensitive, you have to stop your heart
2020-04-24T03:01:02 < Cracki> big fat slab of granite
2020-04-24T03:01:08 < aandrew> yep
2020-04-24T03:01:25 < jadew> Cracki, the bulk of the dead are older here as well, but there are still young guys 30, 36 (in the past couple of days) that do die, with no other health issues
2020-04-24T03:01:36 < Cracki> none they report
2020-04-24T03:01:44 < jadew> we report everything in here
2020-04-24T03:01:48 < Cracki> would you know if you had a ticking time bomb in your spine
2020-04-24T03:01:50 < jadew> for each death
2020-04-24T03:01:56 < jadew> you get to know everything about them
2020-04-24T03:02:10 < Cracki> there exist autopsies for every corpse?
2020-04-24T03:02:14 < aandrew> at my last contract they had like 8 CMMs. half were for production testing/calibration of the optical units, the rest were for screwing around
2020-04-24T03:02:31 < jadew> well, I don't know about that...
2020-04-24T03:02:36 < Cracki> cmm, was that some measurement bank thingy
2020-04-24T03:02:49 < Cracki> I demand every corpse be flayed
2020-04-24T03:02:56 < jadew> anyway, I'm gonna go waste some time with a movie and a beer
2020-04-24T03:03:01 < jadew> I love quarantine
2020-04-24T03:03:02 < aandrew> at the contract before that one, they had to dig out the concrete from part of the building and re-pour without any rebar, and build up the room without any metal (for magnetic calibration/testing)
2020-04-24T03:03:04 < Cracki> :D same except no beer
2020-04-24T03:03:12 < aandrew> yeah I enjoy this quarantine
2020-04-24T03:03:18 < aandrew> all things told, prefer it this way
2020-04-24T03:03:27 < Cracki> wouldn't it be cheaper to make a rebar-less shed in the woods instead
2020-04-24T03:03:28 < aandrew> I could go for a nice 2L of Ursus righ tnow
2020-04-24T03:03:35 < jadew> there are no more schedules, it doesn't matter when you go to sleep - you don't have to be anywhere tomorrow
2020-04-24T03:03:37 < aandrew> I have good beer here but kind of craving that now that jadew mentioned it
2020-04-24T03:03:55 < aandrew> Cracki: well they wanted to test in the building (it was a BIG building)
2020-04-24T03:04:10 < jadew> aandrew, heh
2020-04-24T03:04:19 < Cracki> you'll go crazy on this lack of schedule sooner or later. I know, I've been living like this for a while
2020-04-24T03:04:22 < jadew> I'm having heineken tho :P
2020-04-24T03:04:41 < jadew> Cracki, I've been living like this my whole life
2020-04-24T03:04:43 < Cracki> once your circadian rhythm is upside down you'll forget what sun looks like
2020-04-24T03:04:50 < jadew> the only difference is that there's no social pressure to do stuff anymore
2020-04-24T03:04:51 < aandrew> jadew: ew, I just lost some respect for you
2020-04-24T03:04:58 < aandrew> heineken ... ugh
2020-04-24T03:05:00 < Cracki> the lack of pressure _is_ nice
2020-04-24T03:05:02 < jadew> so I don't have to be tired now
2020-04-24T03:05:06 < aandrew> that's like ... coors or budweiser
2020-04-24T03:05:34 < Cracki> I wish there wasn't pressure to not look like a yeti... that keeps me from soaking rays
2020-04-24T03:05:51 < jadew> I even decided to finally grow a beard
2020-04-24T03:05:58 < jadew> I want to see what I look like
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2020-04-24T03:06:23 < jadew> so far it's just itchy
2020-04-24T03:06:29 < aandrew> I still shave
2020-04-24T03:06:30 < Cracki> make sure you still fit in a gas mask
2020-04-24T03:06:36 < jadew> lol
2020-04-24T03:06:38 < aandrew> but I have started combing my hair just straight back, Godfather style
2020-04-24T03:06:42 < jadew> that's a good point Cracki 
2020-04-24T03:06:50 < Cracki> you can have beard outside the mask, I wonder what styles are available for that
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2020-04-24T03:07:03 < aandrew> it instantly made me look 15y older, and unfortunately since I can't get a haircut and there's a fair amount of hair in the back it tends to poof out and make me look like a startled owl
2020-04-24T03:07:24 < jadew> heh, I always cut my own hair, so I'm covered
2020-04-24T03:07:28 < aandrew> but it's better than the shitty pseudo-doc-brown look that I look like if I try to style it normally
2020-04-24T03:07:30 < Cracki> get a lawn mower and buzz cut yourself?
2020-04-24T03:07:42 < Cracki> or get the wife to cut your hair, I think you had a wife
2020-04-24T03:08:01 < aandrew> yeah I told her I will start combing my hair this way if she doesn't make the attempt
2020-04-24T03:08:08 < aandrew> I think she's called my bluff, so here I am
2020-04-24T03:08:16 < Cracki> does she know how?
2020-04-24T03:08:31 < Cracki> if she fucks up, you get to stay indoors for 2 weeks until it grows out
2020-04-24T03:08:39 < aandrew> I don't have a fancy hairdo, I could probably do it if I could move my arms correctly while looking in a mirror
2020-04-24T03:08:46 < Cracki> literally take soem hair between fingers, cut off, repeat
2020-04-24T03:08:49 < aandrew> I told her I will absolutely not be upset if she fucks it up
2020-04-24T03:09:23 < karlp> Thorn: that carousel link is busted?
2020-04-24T03:10:25 < aandrew> ali orders shipping, getting tons of notifications
2020-04-24T03:10:34 < aandrew> wife'll be pissed again
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2020-04-24T03:11:18 < aandrew> I did get some neat high-temp magnets
2020-04-24T03:11:22 < karlp> qyx: we had to change the rc circtui on a usb2640 hub+sd crd combo to make it reliably come out of reset. had to up the R to make it come out slower,
2020-04-24T03:11:27 < aandrew> 2x3mm cylinders, 350C rated
2020-04-24T03:11:42 < aandrew> I think regular old neodymium punks out at 100
2020-04-24T03:18:40  * karlp cut his own hair, more fun than letting the wife do it.
2020-04-24T03:18:51 < karlp> just wish I'd bought some thinning scissors as well years ago
2020-04-24T03:21:01 < Cracki> 350C, what are you up to
2020-04-24T03:21:19 < Cracki> solder them onto things
2020-04-24T03:22:01 < karlp> aandrew: what's so special about that twitter link? I don't get why that person is so excited?
2020-04-24T03:22:28 < karlp> it's "turn here, over there turns" ?
2020-04-24T03:23:47 < karlp> (obviously I'm not mech enough)
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2020-04-24T03:28:53 < aandrew> Cracki: up to nothing, was the same price as normal, so why not
2020-04-24T03:29:03 < Cracki> feranec shows how current and voltage behave on different copper track widths and polygons https://youtu.be/56FvQX63Ea0?t=1285
2020-04-24T03:29:07 < Cracki> heh
2020-04-24T03:33:12 < aandrew> feranec is good, I just ahve a hard time understanding him
2020-04-24T03:33:47 < Cracki> same
2020-04-24T03:34:18 < Cracki> it should be possible to use a neural network to resynthesize speech to make it more intelligible
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2020-04-24T03:45:13 < Cracki> near 39 minutes, he shows what happens to a bunch of vias carrying current
2020-04-24T03:45:44 < Cracki> parallel to current looks more even than in line with current
2020-04-24T04:01:59 < Ultrasauce> i like how his #1 viewed video is how to roast a whole pig
2020-04-24T04:03:19 < englishman> today is the 15th anniversary of the first youtube upload
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2020-04-24T04:38:07 < Cracki> data structures puzzle! https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Binary_heap who wants to figure out why insertion is O(1) on average? they don't mention it but it's just a few steps to show. concrete example, say numbers 1..100 inserted randomly, and we have 63 numbers in there already (a full tree)
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2020-04-24T05:40:32 < dongs> god damn fucking lattice warez
2020-04-24T05:40:40 < dongs> free license for a year and now i need to remember hwo to fucking apply for a new one
2020-04-24T05:40:45 < dongs> its almost like its easier to pirate their shit
2020-04-24T05:40:54 < dongs> than to fucking worry about renewing free stuff
2020-04-24T05:45:37 < aandrew> yep I hate it
2020-04-24T05:45:49 < aandrew> a permanent license just to use the software would be nice
2020-04-24T05:48:16 < dongs> hmm where teh fuck is simulator stuff in this thing
2020-04-24T05:48:36 < aandrew> um
2020-04-24T05:48:46 < aandrew> I can't remember now
2020-04-24T05:48:49 < aandrew> it was a pain in the ass though
2020-04-24T05:49:27 < dongs> oh gawd its separate exe shit
2020-04-24T05:49:31 < dongs> with adlec activehdl or osmethign
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2020-04-24T06:01:27 < dongs> # KERNEL: Error: KERNEL_0166 "/top/clk_in" does not have write access. Use switch +access +w_nets for this region.
2020-04-24T06:01:31 < dongs> omfg so much retarded shit
2020-04-24T06:01:33 < dongs> makes no sense
2020-04-24T06:01:36 < dongs> fucking 
2020-04-24T06:05:51 < dongs> http://www.latticesemi.com/en/Support/AnswerDatabase/3/7/7/3777
2020-04-24T06:05:52 < dongs> heh
2020-04-24T06:06:38 < aandrew> lol
2020-04-24T06:07:36 < dongs> welp its not doing anything not sure why
2020-04-24T06:07:56 < dongs> also this fucking femtosecond timescale
2020-04-24T06:07:59 < dongs> im sure its totally needed
2020-04-24T06:09:01 < aandrew> makes you feel more pro
2020-04-24T06:09:08 < dongs> it just looks dumb
2020-04-24T06:09:16 < dongs> current sim point: 133 727 930 168 ps
2020-04-24T06:09:18 < dongs> like, wat
2020-04-24T06:11:11 < dongs> http://bcas.tv/paste/results/wVX0zl31.html should this not work? trying to generate dummy ts from a clock
2020-04-24T06:12:08 < dongs> lul every time ir estart simulation it cleares out all the fucking inputs in the waveform view
2020-04-24T06:12:11 < dongs> YEAH THANKS
2020-04-24T06:12:24 < aandrew> hm verilog isn't my thing
2020-04-24T06:14:39 < aandrew> what specifically is broken
2020-04-24T06:14:46 < dongs> nothing, DOUT is XX
2020-04-24T06:14:47 < dongs> in sim
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2020-04-24T06:15:32 < dongs> huh, clkout is too, so maybe the sim is trash? lulz.
2020-04-24T06:15:35 < aandrew> what is count
2020-04-24T06:15:53 < aandrew> you are initializing it as 3b'000 but then comparing it to an integer
2020-04-24T06:16:09 < aandrew> what if you did if count == 3b'111
2020-04-24T06:18:16 < dongs> think that matters? damn
2020-04-24T06:18:18 < dongs> lets see
2020-04-24T06:19:24 < aandrew> not sure. vhdl would bitch at you
2020-04-24T06:19:28 < aandrew> verilog just guesses
2020-04-24T06:19:33 < dongs> that doesnt eeven compile
2020-04-24T06:20:29 < aandrew> 3'b111 not 3b'111 I can't write verilog
2020-04-24T06:20:38 < dongs> oh never mind im dmb
2020-04-24T06:20:38 < dongs> yeah
2020-04-24T06:21:03 < dongs> oh gawd again all waveforms deletec
2020-04-24T06:21:39 < dongs> newp same shit
2020-04-24T06:21:52 < aandrew> what does count do in the waveform viewer
2020-04-24T06:22:00 < dongs> oh godo question
2020-04-24T06:22:16 < dongs> it doesnt appear i can view that
2020-04-24T06:22:22 < dongs> it only alows me to waveform inputs or outputs
2020-04-24T06:22:29 < aandrew> note that you don't have dout doing anything on init which is why it's XX
2020-04-24T06:22:40 < aandrew> wtf kind of idiotic waveform viewer is that
2020-04-24T06:23:13 < dongs> ok maybe i can sim just the produce module
2020-04-24T06:23:14 < dongs> lets see
2020-04-24T06:23:27 < aandrew> are you sure you need count <= count + 1'b1? why not +1?
2020-04-24T06:23:34 < aandrew> is it fucking up the adder?
2020-04-24T06:24:25 < dongs> ok running again for 0.1s takes like 10 minutes to run thanks to this femtosecond timebase
2020-04-24T06:24:34 < dongs> ok count is alawys x
2020-04-24T06:24:43 < aandrew> x?
2020-04-24T06:24:46 < aandrew> that's not right
2020-04-24T06:24:50 < aandrew> your initial isn't running
2020-04-24T06:25:01 < aandrew> not sure why you do that, I always always always have a reset 
2020-04-24T06:25:07 < dongs> https://i.imgur.com/qg69mW2.png
2020-04-24T06:25:53 < dongs> ts_counter and sequen are zero tho
2020-04-24T06:26:26 < dongs> reg [2:0] count; < is the size wrong here?
2020-04-24T06:26:39 < dongs> 0,1,2 = 3 bits, looks ok to me tho
2020-04-24T06:26:48 < aandrew> yeah
2020-04-24T06:26:57 < aandrew> just make it an integer or whatever that is in verilog mabe
2020-04-24T06:29:34 < dongs> ok theres ddeefiniely something fucked with count.
2020-04-24T06:29:43 < dongs> i changed sequen = 31337 in initial
2020-04-24T06:29:46 < dongs> and its reflected in waveform
2020-04-24T06:29:49 < dongs> what the shit
2020-04-24T06:29:55 < aandrew> yeah that x is bad
2020-04-24T06:29:58 < aandrew> are all bits x?
2020-04-24T06:30:08 < dongs> yep
2020-04-24T06:30:15 < aandrew> that's fucked
2020-04-24T06:30:41 < aandrew> what if you set it to just 0 not 3'b000?
2020-04-24T06:30:45 < dongs> did
2020-04-24T06:30:48 < dongs> thats waht im running now
2020-04-24T06:30:49 < dongs> no difference.
2020-04-24T06:30:57 < aandrew> wtf
2020-04-24T06:31:24 < aandrew> if you set sequen or ts_counter to something other than zero do you see it?
2020-04-24T06:31:28 < dongs> yes
2020-04-24T06:31:49 < aandrew> is count a reserved word or something in verilog?
2020-04-24T06:31:56 < dongs> https://i.imgur.com/Ekutlum.png
2020-04-24T06:32:01 < aandrew> call it dong or someshit
2020-04-24T06:32:09 < dongs> i used to have "sequence" and it warned me about it beign a reserved word
2020-04-24T06:32:12 < dongs> so i renaemd to sequen
2020-04-24T06:32:18 < dongs> so i figure if count was that, it'd prolly warn me too
2020-04-24T06:32:45 < aandrew> hm
2020-04-24T06:33:56 < dongs> assigning dout in initial doesnt work either
2020-04-24T06:33:57 < dongs> still xx
2020-04-24T06:35:56 < dongs> dout <= 0; worked, 8'b0000000 didnt
2020-04-24T06:36:02 < dongs> changed count <= 0, STILL doesnt work
2020-04-24T06:36:14 < aandrew> and count <= count + 1?
2020-04-24T06:36:58 < dongs> nope
2020-04-24T06:37:29 < aandrew> hm so it's something in the initial is putting count at a bad value and you can't increment it
2020-04-24T06:39:18 < dongs> renamed count to cunt
2020-04-24T06:39:20 < dongs> still same
2020-04-24T06:39:22 < dongs> so its not reserved
2020-04-24T06:39:41 < aandrew> yeah, but clearly it's not getting initted right; CLK_OUT is 'x' and the increment just isn't working
2020-04-24T06:43:32 < dongs> i could skip the /8 clock thing (but i want to test 100Mhz input) and get rid of count but that doesnt solve the problem
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2020-04-24T06:47:07 < aandrew> no that isn't the problem, it's just pointing to the problem
2020-04-24T06:47:19 < aandrew> count[2] is 'x' even though you're setting it to zero in initial
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2020-04-24T06:57:51 < aandrew> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BVxOb8-d7Ic
2020-04-24T07:08:36 < dongs> fuckin aids
2020-04-24T07:08:38 < dongs> no idea
2020-04-24T07:08:57 < aandrew> azonenberg may be better help than me
2020-04-24T07:09:54 < dongs> i doubt astonerberg has written a single line of HDL in his entire career
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2020-04-24T07:25:38 < dongs> ...
2020-04-24T07:26:21 < dongs> i changed count assignment to = (blocking) instead of <= and now something is moving
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2020-04-24T07:39:44 < dongs> KERNEL: Warning: You are using the Active-HDL Lattice Edition. The performance of simulation is running at a reduced rate.
2020-04-24T07:39:47 < dongs> oh thats why the shit is slow
2020-04-24T07:40:03 < dongs> if (freewarez) sleep(100);
2020-04-24T08:01:34 < dongs> 13536
2020-04-24T08:01:36 < dongs> oh right
2020-04-24T08:01:40 < dongs> ERROR - 
2020-04-24T08:01:41 < dongs> function CHECK_SECURITY_PROTECT_KEY
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2020-04-24T08:01:50 < dongs> i forgot why i was getting this in diamondcuck programmer
2020-04-24T08:05:47 < dongs> fck yeah they f ixed it in new programmer
2020-04-24T08:06:01 < dongs> now to see if this trash actually works
2020-04-24T08:27:54 < dongs> man, it took me 10 mins to generate a clock from STM32
2020-04-24T08:27:58 < dongs> is it time to switch to cube
2020-04-24T08:44:24 < dongs> wow
2020-04-24T08:45:34 < strata> CHECK_DONG_PROTECT_KEY
2020-04-24T08:52:50 < dongs> right.. so how od i generate 100mhz clock from STM
2020-04-24T08:52:52 < dongs> i guess i dont huh
2020-04-24T08:53:04 < dongs> maybe someshit with MCO
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2020-04-24T08:58:09 < strata> ooo it's backing up stm32cube filez now
2020-04-24T08:59:56 < dongs> how the fuck can i generate 100mhz clock with something?
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2020-04-24T09:04:31 < dongs> 16Mhz seems to be the best i can do using 84MHz F401, TIM2 running at period 3 adn prescaler 0
2020-04-24T09:04:40 < dongs> hm i shoould see if theres a timer on a faster bus
2020-04-24T09:05:14 < jpa-> use PLL and MCO pin?
2020-04-24T09:05:22 < dongs> i did, that doesnt work
2020-04-24T09:05:27 < dongs> when MCO source is PLL its just high
2020-04-24T09:05:38 < jpa-> then you are just doing something wrong
2020-04-24T09:05:41 < dongs> i can set it to HSI, but then its like 8mhz or wahtever
2020-04-24T09:07:01 < dongs> ok yeah TIM2 is on APB which is slower. 
2020-04-24T09:07:03 < dongs> time to switch to TIM1
2020-04-24T09:07:28 < jpa-> it's not like you'll get above 42MHz with timers if your HCLK is just 84MHz
2020-04-24T09:07:40 < dongs> yes but thats better than 16mhz im getting now
2020-04-24T09:10:07 < dongs> not working
2020-04-24T09:10:47 < jpa-> just debug the MCO setup, it has always worked fine for me and is the best way to get high frequencies out
2020-04-24T09:10:58 < dongs> oh, setting ospeed helps
2020-04-24T09:11:07 < jpa-> lol, you had ospeed at minimum? :D
2020-04-24T09:11:38 < dongs> i had it at default
2020-04-24T09:15:26 < dongs> NICE
2020-04-24T09:15:28 < dongs> 84mhz 
2020-04-24T09:15:37 < dongs> teh drive must hafev been it
2020-04-24T09:16:01 < dongs> now since i jsut use a timer i need to overclock this
2020-04-24T09:17:01 < jpa-> use the MCO
2020-04-24T09:17:08 < dongs> yes, mco is running now
2020-04-24T09:17:11 < dongs> thats teh 84mhz part
2020-04-24T09:17:14 < jpa-> ah
2020-04-24T09:18:23 < dongs> aww ya
2020-04-24T09:18:25 < dongs> 106MHz
2020-04-24T09:18:28 < dongs> PLL_N 420
2020-04-24T09:18:31 < dongs> blaze it
2020-04-24T09:19:23 < dongs> 116mhz still no smoke
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2020-04-24T09:21:36 < upgrdman_> how many mhz is it rated for?
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2020-04-24T09:21:42 < dongs> 84
2020-04-24T09:21:49 < upgrdman> cool
2020-04-24T09:22:05 < dongs> its 401RE, im sure its same core as F405 or wahtever that runs at 168
2020-04-24T09:22:20 < dongs> so its likely if you dont actualyl need any peripherals that are timing sensitive it'll prolly run at 168
2020-04-24T09:22:42 < upgrdman> ya. most stm32 are easily overcocked. i think i overcock my f051 by like 50% with all periphs happy
2020-04-24T09:25:16 < dongs> https://www.botblox.io/product/small-ethernet-switch/ i just got tweeted this incredibly autistic thing
2020-04-24T09:25:27 < dongs> > 10/100 in 2020
2020-04-24T09:25:30 < dongs> > 99 dollaroos
2020-04-24T09:25:37 < dongs> what the actual fuck
2020-04-24T09:26:40 < upgrdman> inorite
2020-04-24T09:26:48 < upgrdman> i think i saw that on dickaday recently
2020-04-24T09:26:56 < dongs> thats prolly wehre it got tweeted from
2020-04-24T09:27:10 < dongs> jesus christ. and a set of non-standard cables to mkae that shit useful is another 30 bux
2020-04-24T09:27:36 < dongs> lol at using fucking LM317 compatible breakout dc/dc module
2020-04-24T09:27:49 < dongs> because too fucking autistic to put your own high-Vin DC/DC on teh board
2020-04-24T09:28:17 < upgrdman> minor thing: seems weird that the anus ring on their pcb mounting holes is so small. if the screw head digs in, it'll short between those ring and the ground pours. shouldn't matter, but looks ghetto
2020-04-24T09:28:50 < dongs> they have bigger problems there, top left and bottom right there's actual traces real close to there
2020-04-24T09:29:11 < upgrdman> oh ya
2020-04-24T09:29:12 < upgrdman> heh
2020-04-24T09:29:45 < upgrdman> and a reset button on their 10/100 switch. that instills even more confidence.
2020-04-24T09:30:25 < dongs> so waht does that actually do? https://www.digikey.jp/product-detail/en/pulse-electronics-network/H1164NLT/553-1756-1-ND/3687435 is a transformer, wehre's teh actual SWITCH ic?
2020-04-24T09:30:34 < dongs> or is this some kinda ghetto unswitched hub
2020-04-24T09:31:18 < upgrdman> unswitched switch
2020-04-24T09:31:21 < upgrdman> so pro
2020-04-24T09:31:27 < Cracki> >for demanding applications
2020-04-24T09:31:42 < upgrdman> the more you read/look, but funnier it gets. lolz
2020-04-24T09:32:41 < Cracki> those are like grove connectors with one more pin
2020-04-24T09:32:42 < dongs> https://www.mouser.com/datasheet/2/336/Pulse%20h1164-1199343.pdf no seriosuly what?
2020-04-24T09:32:45 < dongs> where's the electronics
2020-04-24T09:32:52 < jpa-> dongs: on the back  https://github.com/botblox/SwitchBlox/blob/master/Hardware/Reference%20Images/Bottom.png
2020-04-24T09:32:54 < dongs> both of those big things on there are transformers
2020-04-24T09:33:29 < dongs> of CORES its made with kikecad
2020-04-24T09:33:47 < jpa-> it's pro all the way down
2020-04-24T09:33:55 < Cracki> ah, backside has the brain
2020-04-24T09:34:28 < dongs> Lol they're fucking wasting a managed swithc IC on that shit
2020-04-24T09:34:30 < Cracki> "KSZ8895MQXCA"
2020-04-24T09:34:53 < dongs> the shit they're doing coulda been accomplished with a piece of shit unmanaged switch
2020-04-24T09:35:01 < Cracki> managed so you can run code on it, and wiggle gpios
2020-04-24T09:35:10 < dongs> nah, managed like vlans and shit
2020-04-24T09:35:23 < dongs> it has rate limiting and other useful features
2020-04-24T09:35:31 < dongs> compeltely wasted cuz no way to control that on their shit design
2020-04-24T09:35:33 < Cracki> ok that's a bit overkill but eh
2020-04-24T09:35:35 < upgrdman> is 10GbE common on mobos yet?
2020-04-24T09:35:51 < upgrdman> seems so odd that GigE is still a think when HDDs are SSDs are so much faster now
2020-04-24T09:35:57 < Cracki> I looked some months ago, it's available but not widespread
2020-04-24T09:35:59 < upgrdman> thing*
2020-04-24T09:36:06 < dongs> mellanox 10g sfp cards are cheap as fuck
2020-04-24T09:36:25 < Cracki> you'll get happier looking for sfp+ slots and a direct attach cable
2020-04-24T09:36:25 < upgrdman> can 10g use cat6?
2020-04-24T09:36:25 < dongs> mikrotik 10g sfp switches are cheap too
2020-04-24T09:36:32 < dongs> yes but dont
2020-04-24T09:36:39 < Cracki> cat6a iirc
2020-04-24T09:37:35 < Cracki> cat6 seems to be ok for 55m
2020-04-24T09:40:05 < Cracki> 269 usd, bring your own sfp+ https://mikrotik.com/product/crs309_1g_8s_in
2020-04-24T09:40:49 < Cracki> 150 bucks if 4 sfp+ slots is enough
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2020-04-24T10:18:18 < upgrdman> anyone know of a way to benchmark usb throughput on windows? like "i want a plot of Mbps for this usb device"
2020-04-24T10:19:01 < upgrdman> i found two, and they both suck ass. "device monitoring studio" and "usbtrace"
2020-04-24T10:19:22 < upgrdman> but commercial and look like old shit ported from windows 3.1 to 95 to 98 to 2000
2020-04-24T10:20:16 < upgrdman> it'd be nice if i could find this in something newer or free  http://www.sysnucleus.com/images/usbtrace_perfmon.jpg
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2020-04-24T10:31:55 < jpa-> upgrdman: maybe Microsoft Message Analyzer can do it
2020-04-24T10:32:39 < jpa-> or wireshark, if you get through the hurdle to get it to capture usb on windows
2020-04-24T10:33:58 < upgrdman> but how do i get wireshark to plot Mbps or equiv?
2020-04-24T10:34:35 < upgrdman> hmm. looks like msft "performance montior" can do give me a plot of usb metrics... but when i add usb to the list of monitored metrics... nothing changes. fuck
2020-04-24T10:34:59 < jpa-> wireshark has the "plot throughput" in some menu
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2020-04-24T11:00:07 < Thorn> fukken lol https://devzone.nordicsemi.com/f/nordic-q-a/16771/spi-and-twi-error
2020-04-24T11:02:21 < qyx> karlp: yeah I will try increasing the capacitance
2020-04-24T11:02:25 < qyx> on the reset circuit
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2020-04-24T11:11:03 < upgrdman> "twi" == i2c?
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2020-04-24T11:14:59 < qyx> yes
2020-04-24T11:15:08 < qyx> https://www.rferl.org/a/czech-embassy-in-moscow-attacked-after-prague-removes-soviet-commander-s-statue/30535440.html
2020-04-24T11:15:14 < qyx> heh
2020-04-24T11:15:39 < qyx> also Prague Mayor under police protection amid dispute with Moscow over demolition of Marshal Konev monument
2020-04-24T11:27:43 < invzim> man, rs components take their packaging seriously
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2020-04-24T12:38:41 < karlp> qyx: we ended up with support from microchip on it, it would normally work in linux, but only ~50% of the time in uboot
2020-04-24T12:45:28 < zyp> Cracki, IME fibers and transceivers are so cheap you might as well not bother with direct attach
2020-04-24T12:50:15 < zyp> hmm, difference is larger than I thought
2020-04-24T12:50:54 < zyp> a pair of transceivers will cost like 30€, you can get three passive DAC cables for that price
2020-04-24T12:58:57 < karlp> I wonder what project that botblox thing was made for
2020-04-24T13:02:55 < Thorn> so in posix there are character devices and block devices. are there OSes with message devices? (either fixed length or variable length)
2020-04-24T13:05:01 < zyp> like datagram sockets, you mean?
2020-04-24T13:06:17 < Thorn> something like that
2020-04-24T13:06:29 < Thorn> perhaps with message broker functions built into the os
2020-04-24T13:23:19 < emeryth> lunix is working on kdbus
2020-04-24T13:25:05 < karlp> msgget?
2020-04-24T13:25:47 < karlp> or msgrcv msgsnd shit.
2020-04-24T13:25:51 < karlp> oldschool as hell
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2020-04-24T13:44:21 < qyx> posis message queueM
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2020-04-24T13:49:15 < qyx> posix even
2020-04-24T14:08:02 < Thorn> https://blog.wokwi.com/introducing-easyeda-2-kicad/
2020-04-24T14:20:39 < dongs> fuck off easyead and all those dumb webbased footprint peddlers
2020-04-24T14:20:40 < dongs> fuck em
2020-04-24T14:25:26 < antto> we interrupt this program for.. https://i.imgur.com/7o51O09.mp4
2020-04-24T14:25:34 < Thorn> I may have just fixed a bug in the Nordick sdk
2020-04-24T14:56:32 < Mangy_Dog> :D kittens
2020-04-24T14:57:35 < Thorn> ST ble/sub-ghz webinar starting
2020-04-24T14:58:16 < Thorn> the only way to join that I know is https://www.compel.ru/lib/137794 (press the last button)
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2020-04-24T16:14:04 < jpa-> can someone try downloading this, I'm getting reports that it always aborts but for me it works fine:   https://jpa.kapsi.fi/jenkins/job/focus-stack/job/focus-stack%20MacOSX/lastSuccessfulBuild/artifact/distrib/focus-stack_MacOSX.zip
2020-04-24T16:15:23 < qyx> worksforme
2020-04-24T16:15:48 < jpa-> thanks
2020-04-24T16:31:12 < PaulFertser> jpa-: no issues both via IPv6 and IPv4. Do those reports include wget output so one can see what error specifically that was?
2020-04-24T16:32:12 < jpa-> PaulFertser: nope, they just reported that "browser keeps aborting the download".. without even indicating which browser
2020-04-24T16:32:31 < jpa-> i bet their own connection is just crap
2020-04-24T16:34:54 < PaulFertser> Then they need to enable network pane in browser dev tools and show what it gives. For browser to literally abort the download it needs to receive some error from the server I guess, otherwise it should be auto-resuming, just like wget does, no?
2020-04-24T16:49:46 < strEAker> I have had problems for years downloading Keil MDK from a browser. Never works. Always slows down gradually, then stops and hangs forever. I always have to switch to wget. Wget works every time.
2020-04-24T16:49:49 < mawk> timeout is enough too PaulFertser 
2020-04-24T16:50:24 < strEAker> There is a difference. I would like to know what.
2020-04-24T16:50:35 < Thorn> browsers auto-resuming? never seen that
2020-04-24T16:50:49 < strEAker> but it never stops in the first place (with wget)
2020-04-24T16:50:53 < Thorn> jpa- worked for me, chrome on mac os
2020-04-24T16:51:28 < strEAker> I have consistently observed that when you download the same file from a browser and with wget. You get a faster download (higher bandwidth) with wget.
2020-04-24T16:52:06 < zyp> huh, actually managed to get through the NDA process for one of those crosspoint switches I've been looking at
2020-04-24T16:52:13 < Thorn> and even in safari
2020-04-24T16:52:35 < zyp> not microsemi though, they just stopped replying to my emails after they asked me how many I'd buy and I didn't reply 100k
2020-04-24T16:53:03 < Thorn> why are those things under an NDA?
2020-04-24T16:53:27 < Thorn> do they violate someone's patents?
2020-04-24T16:53:29 < zyp> that's what I don't understand either
2020-04-24T16:55:00 < Thorn> I understand most wi-fi chips are under NDAs because of some australian company that's been waging a patent war for years?
2020-04-24T16:55:01 < dongs> whats the easiest way to pad a buffer in veriblog with a constant xor?
2020-04-24T16:55:21 < dongs> i haev ~180 bytes to fill, i want to xor it with a constant that changes every 188 bytes (i have acounter for it)
2020-04-24T16:55:27 < aandrew> dongs: did you get your HDL working
2020-04-24T16:55:30 < dongs> yes
2020-04-24T16:55:31 < PaulFertser> mawk: huh, web browsers are weird
2020-04-24T16:55:43 < dongs> aandrew: the problem was count <= 0 in 'initial'
2020-04-24T16:55:47 < dongs> count = 0 = works
2020-04-24T16:55:56 < aandrew> ... wut
2020-04-24T16:56:02 < dongs> yes
2020-04-24T16:56:34 < aandrew> you are using some_reg <= 0 and they work, but wasn't working for count?
2020-04-24T16:56:48 < dongs> idk i cahnged all to = in initial and everythign works
2020-04-24T16:56:51 < aandrew> hm
2020-04-24T16:57:03 < dongs> ive got overclocked F401 sending 116mhz to it and it /8s and outputs all my shit correctly
2020-04-24T16:57:05 < aandrew> I don't know enough about verilog. glad you got it though
2020-04-24T16:57:10 < aandrew> looks like you're still working on tv shits
2020-04-24T16:57:19 < aandrew> must be a nice side biz you got going on
2020-04-24T16:57:43 < aandrew> I still have those DVB-S2 tuners you sent me like 15y ago, lol
2020-04-24T16:57:53 < dongs> nice, they're ancient as fuck now
2020-04-24T16:57:58 < aandrew> yep but bet they still work great
2020-04-24T16:58:05 < aandrew> my interest in dvb-s2 evaporated when nagra3 came out
2020-04-24T16:58:26 < aandrew> and these days I wouldn't get sat/cable tv even if it were free because this is an ad-free house
2020-04-24T16:58:42 < dongs> lets see if verilo swsitch/case takes a range
2020-04-24T16:58:44 < aandrew> still would be fun to hook it up and point at a bird and get that TS out
2020-04-24T16:58:44 < mawk> also they historically didn't resume the download PaulFertser 
2020-04-24T16:58:47 < mawk> I don't think they do it now either
2020-04-24T16:58:51 < mawk> you need like a download manager
2020-04-24T16:59:35 < BrainDamage> they can resume download, but it's been quite unreliable for me
2020-04-24T17:02:19 < Thorn> maybe they can if you have a download manager extension installed
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2020-04-24T18:03:40 < Thorn> ok so this fatfs thing is blocking and the only way to avoid busy waits is to run it in a thread/task/coroutine and put yield calls into the diskio layer?
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2020-04-24T18:12:16 < Cracki> what are you innovating
2020-04-24T18:24:07 < mawk> well Thorn can't you put hooks in its interrupts ?
2020-04-24T18:24:16 < mawk> what are you waiting on in the FAT code ? SD card ?
2020-04-24T18:24:39 < mawk> but even besides that there should be a way to place hooks
2020-04-24T18:25:46 < Thorn> yes, sd card, and there's a very complex sd layer under fatfs and above spi. one sd transfer contains multiple spi tranfers if I understood the code correctly
2020-04-24T18:26:15 < Thorn> the frs sd driver actually uses protothreads
2020-04-24T18:29:11 < jpa-> frs?
2020-04-24T18:29:35 < Thorn> *nrf
2020-04-24T18:29:40 < Thorn> lol sorry
2020-04-24T18:30:28 < Thorn> and between the sd driver and diskio there is something called "nrf block device"
2020-04-24T18:42:12 < Thorn> which is an absolute pile of bullshit
2020-04-24T18:43:50 < dongs> Thorn: yeah
2020-04-24T18:43:55 < dongs> its completely thread-useless
2020-04-24T18:44:06 < dongs> apparently there's some async port somewehre but its old/buggy/whoknows
2020-04-24T18:44:18 < Thorn> well I need cpu time to decode mp3
2020-04-24T18:44:43 < Thorn> and save battery
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2020-04-24T18:48:51 < Thorn> attn zyp https://ieeexplore.ieee.org/document/8995550
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2020-04-24T18:50:10 < emeb> Doesn't that look like a mess in the making.
2020-04-24T18:52:45 < Thorn> what would be the proper way then?
2020-04-24T19:01:06 < emeb> Beats me. Just seems as though they're trying to build a process management / "cooperative multitasking" scheme into the language.
2020-04-24T19:01:18 < karlp> it's c++, gotta add it all!
2020-04-24T19:01:45 < emeb> more shit to go wrong
2020-04-24T19:02:56 < emeb> Saw some noise the other day about adding a new variable type - integers with arbitrary bitwidth.
2020-04-24T19:03:25 < emeb> Seems it was designed to make it easier to use C/C++ for doing high-level hardware synthesis.
2020-04-24T19:03:51 < emeb> To which I say - why not just use one of the available hardware languages?
2020-04-24T19:04:26 < Thorn> oh you mean the coroutines thing
2020-04-24T19:04:44 < emeb> yes
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2020-04-24T19:06:47 < Cracki> smells like they're porting popular features from higher languages
2020-04-24T19:06:53 < aandrew> dongs: pretty sure it was failing with => because that is non blocking so the initial block assignment was getting overwritten
2020-04-24T19:06:59 < Cracki> python has bigints and coroutines/generators
2020-04-24T19:07:04 < aandrew> = is blocking
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2020-04-24T19:09:43 < dongs> aandrew: yea biut youd think the shit would warn about this some how
2020-04-24T19:11:09 < aandrew> No I think it’s just how verilog is. You are expected to know
2020-04-24T19:13:31 < boddax> a good vertical pinion-rack stl for 3d printer ?
2020-04-24T19:15:34 < Cracki> stl? you don't have specific dimensions to match?
2020-04-24T19:22:29 < boddax> for vertical sliding usb microscioe , stable thing
2020-04-24T19:22:39 < boddax> *microscope
2020-04-24T19:23:18 < boddax> small movement and very stable position
2020-04-24T19:24:08 < boddax> good thing if have also dc motor connection
2020-04-24T19:24:54 < boddax> i think best is double elical rail
2020-04-24T19:26:20 < emeb> oh noes - dongs is doing the verilogs.
2020-04-24T19:26:27 < emeb> look out FPGA world
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2020-04-24T19:38:09 < boddax> i like designspark mechanical free 3d cad editor very simple and powerful
2020-04-24T20:06:24 < Thorn> emeb: btw maybe you could give any pointers on books / tutorials etc. with enough algorithms (bit clock recovery, demodulation, AGC/AFC, etc.) to make an FSK SDR? not from scratch, no need for basic signal theory. with a focus on fpga if there's a choice
2020-04-24T20:07:11 < Laurenceb> sounds tricky
2020-04-24T20:07:23 < Laurenceb> there are a few different ways to do it
2020-04-24T20:07:33 < emeb> Thorn: Can't say I know which books / websites would be best for that.
2020-04-24T20:07:38 < Laurenceb> as in PLL or DFT with two bins
2020-04-24T20:08:00 < emeb> I know how I'd do it, but that's mostly based on experience.
2020-04-24T20:08:53 < emeb> It also is highly dependent on the symbol rates, noise environment, etc.
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2020-04-24T20:10:10 < emeb> I did an FSK modem for satellite comms a few years ago that was for low rate (300-4800bps) low SNR, but if it were fast or high SNR I'd do it differently.
2020-04-24T20:23:57 < emeb> Thorn: This document might be helpful - depending on what you're doing: http://www.datasheetcatalog.com/datasheets_pdf/M/S/K/_/MSK_(MINIMUM_SHIFT_KEYING).shtml
2020-04-24T20:33:02 < Thorn> thanks, looks pretty interesting
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2020-04-24T20:59:49 < fenugrec> quality Amazon reviews . "... this station holds its own against the high end competition machines. I just recently got into SMD soldering ..."
2020-04-24T21:01:47 < zyp> competition?
2020-04-24T21:02:10 < zyp> oh, competitors
2020-04-24T21:02:17 < fenugrec> competitor's
2020-04-24T21:02:33 < zyp> I read it as machines used for soldering competitions
2020-04-24T21:02:37 < fenugrec> hehe not "competitive hot air reworking" 
2020-04-24T21:02:45 < zyp> aww
2020-04-24T21:02:50 < fenugrec> although isn't there an IPC competition
2020-04-24T21:02:52 < zyp> that'd be something
2020-04-24T21:03:22 < fenugrec> http://www.ipc.org/ContentPage.aspx?pageid=IPC-Hand-Soldering-Competitions
2020-04-24T21:03:38 < zyp> nice
2020-04-24T21:03:46 < fenugrec> I'd watch that before a baseball match any day
2020-04-24T21:04:47 < Thorn> http://blog.catchpoint.com/2017/07/06/dissecting-mqtt-using-wireshark/
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2020-04-24T21:22:30 < logicp> Does anyone have any resources on writing code to make use of the X-Nucleo expansion boards WITHOUT HAL or the GUI apps which stm32 provides?
2020-04-24T21:23:22 < logicp> or is one supposed to study the HAL code? I was hoping to use this with an F7 board, but the examples are all using HAL code for F0 and F4
2020-04-24T21:23:56 < zyp> what board in particular are you thinking about?
2020-04-24T21:24:28 < Thorn> logicp: mcu reference manual + some arm cmsis documentation should be enough in principle. you can also use LL when it makes sense to do so (and cube can generate LL-based initialization for most peripherals)
2020-04-24T21:24:30 < zyp> I assume they have published schematics, so you could just write code from scratch for that using whatever library you like
2020-04-24T21:25:12 < Cracki> logicp, any specific expansion board? I'd expect them to be documented enough that you can write your own code that uses your STM32's peripherals to talk to the expansion board
2020-04-24T21:25:20 < Cracki> ye what he said
2020-04-24T21:25:24 < logicp> I guess I'm mostly confused about what pins are used to control the X-Nucleo
2020-04-24T21:25:47 < zyp> the schematic would tell you that
2020-04-24T21:25:52 < Cracki> ST has their own standard header, sounds like nucleo but differen
2020-04-24T21:26:01 < logicp> ahhh the schematic for the X-Nucleo expansion board?
2020-04-24T21:26:14 < zyp> yes
2020-04-24T21:26:18 < logicp> I have an STM32Nucleo 144 with F746ZG and X-Nucleo IHM12A1
2020-04-24T21:26:24 < logicp> ahhh that makes sense
2020-04-24T21:27:18 < zyp> https://www.st.com/resource/en/user_manual/dm00329495-getting-started-with-the-xnucleoihm12a1-low-voltage-dual-brush-dc-motor-driver-expansion-based-on-stspin240-for-stm32-nucleo-stmicroelectronics.pdf <- there's both a table on page 7 and schematics on page 12
2020-04-24T21:27:32 < Cracki> oh look, the data brief already has a schematic on the second page. less brief than the usual brief.
2020-04-24T21:28:34 < zyp> and then you probably have to reference the nucleo schematics also to see which mcu pins are connected to which header pins :)
2020-04-24T21:29:03 < PaulFertser> There was some hand soldering competition where dongs was supposed to win if allowed to participate.
2020-04-24T21:29:38 < logicp> okay this looks doable now
2020-04-24T21:29:40 < logicp> thanks a lot!
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2020-04-24T21:54:08 < Steffanx> yw
2020-04-24T22:00:32 < logicp> Didn't work yet, but I think it's almost setup. The X-Nucleo table says Signal "ENABLE" is controlled from pin 3 on connector CN9.
2020-04-24T22:00:54 < logicp> Pin 3 of connector CN9 appears to correspond to PC0 on the STM32F746ZG
2020-04-24T22:01:13 < logicp> so my understanding is that, if everything's connected right, simply setting that pin HIGH should turn on the motor
2020-04-24T22:01:21 < logicp> Does that sound right?
2020-04-24T22:06:34 < srk> mawk mawk 
2020-04-24T22:07:05 < srk> lol that's like a broken cat
2020-04-24T22:07:50 < bitmask> grr, I got muh check but paypal is overloaded and wont cash it
2020-04-24T22:12:57 < Steffanx> lol everyone is spending monies..
2020-04-24T22:13:03 < Steffanx> like moneyed westeners
2020-04-24T22:13:21 < aandrew> lol
2020-04-24T22:13:26 < aandrew> hand soldering contest
2020-04-24T22:13:40 < Steffanx> Yeah i also recall dongs was going to enter it
2020-04-24T22:13:45 < logicp> spend the moneys, we can make more
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2020-04-24T22:21:27 < aandrew> zyp: tbh there is not much to that schematic for the stspin240
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2020-04-24T22:27:58 < aandrew> hm stspin240 doesn't look all that special
2020-04-24T22:28:01 < aandrew> just dual h bridge
2020-04-24T22:28:45 < aandrew> just tiny and integrated
2020-04-24T22:31:59 < englishman> is that the one where the devboard comes with a lil brushless motor
2020-04-24T22:32:14 < aandrew> no this is a brushed motor driver
2020-04-24T22:32:28 < aandrew> I keep forgetting I got a kit of tiny steppers off ali a while ago
2020-04-24T22:32:37 < aandrew> impulse buy, probably all ripped off of reclaimed floppy drives and shit
2020-04-24T22:32:41 < aandrew> oh that reminds me
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2020-04-24T22:43:17 < englishman> https://www.usenix.org/system/files/sec20fall_ender_prepub.pdf
2020-04-24T22:43:20 < englishman> lool
2020-04-24T22:43:27 < englishman> 7-series encryption defeated
2020-04-24T22:45:20 < englishman> it does the decryption for you and stores it in a handy, jtag-readable register
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2020-04-24T23:08:23 < Steffanx> awh
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2020-04-24T23:17:00 < PaulFertser> Why nobody was doing anything like that in the university I graduated from? :(
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2020-04-24T23:18:58 < Cracki> soldering competition?
2020-04-24T23:19:33 < Cracki> too applied maybe, not enough chalk
2020-04-24T23:19:52 < PaulFertser> Cracki: no, research into security like that Xilinx 7 paper.
2020-04-24T23:20:02 < Cracki> that's the general impression I got every time I suggested anything handson at my uni
2020-04-24T23:20:06 < Cracki> ah that :D
2020-04-24T23:20:19 -!- con3 [~con3@165.255.104.51] has quit [Quit: Leaving]
2020-04-24T23:21:04 < Cracki> >[...] institute for cyber security and privacy
2020-04-24T23:21:21 < Cracki> specialized place I'd say
2020-04-24T23:21:53 < Cracki> ruhr uni bochum is also known for itsec emphasis, attracts the itsec-minded crowd
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2020-04-24T23:23:44 < karlp> Thorn: surprised that wireshark has decoders for mqtt or what? it's got decoders for like ~everything.  there's even bits of decoders for stlink usb protocols....
2020-04-24T23:26:42 < karlp> (I even wrote it partially back in 2011: http://false.ekta.is/2011/06/mqtt-dissector-decoder-for-wireshark) :)
2020-04-24T23:26:54 < karlp> now pardon me while I yell at letsencrypt a bit
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--- Day changed Sat Apr 25 2020
2020-04-25T00:49:24 < catphish> i didn't even know bitstreams were encrypted or secret
2020-04-25T00:50:22 < zyp> it's just like any other IP protection
2020-04-25T00:51:11 < zyp> on a MCU with internal flash, you generally have some method to restrict access to the flash
2020-04-25T00:51:52 < zyp> most FPGAs don't and fetches the configuration from external flash, making it trivial to dump or sniff
2020-04-25T00:52:33 < zyp> and once you have a dump, just replicate the board, fill the flash and sell clones
2020-04-25T00:53:09 < Cracki> the bitstream on external flash can be encrypted of course
2020-04-25T00:53:40 < Cracki> so that part protect from changes to the bitstream, but not to replicating it
2020-04-25T00:53:48 < catphish> is it signed for each individual fpga?
2020-04-25T00:53:53 < zyp> exactly, encryption provides an anti-cloning measure, because now only fpgas that know the encryption key can load it
2020-04-25T00:53:55 < Cracki> seems like it
2020-04-25T00:54:14 < catphish> otherwise you could just clone the encrypted stream
2020-04-25T00:54:17 < Cracki> maybe the fpga has a little bunch of fuses so you can burn your own key in at factory, who knows
2020-04-25T00:54:24 < PaulFertser> Yes, it's all mentioned in the paper.
2020-04-25T00:54:33 < PaulFertser> And BTW, stm32 is also involved.
2020-04-25T00:54:34 < zyp> I believe the key is written to fuses, yes
2020-04-25T00:54:41 < catphish> Cracki: seems from reading the paper that this is the case
2020-04-25T00:54:46 < PaulFertser> And jlink. And OpenOCD. But not the pro jlink software.
2020-04-25T00:54:56 < Cracki> just skimmed it, thinking what makes sense
2020-04-25T00:55:21 < Cracki> I saw CBC mode mentioned. xilinx might want to improve
2020-04-25T00:55:48 < zyp> I haven't read the paper itself, but I've seen enough talk about it to have a pretty good idea of what it says
2020-04-25T00:56:24 < catphish> tldr: you can decrypt the bitstream
2020-04-25T00:56:44 < catphish> this wouldn't be a problem if the designs were open source
2020-04-25T00:56:54 < Cracki> is the 7 series bitstream format documented or reversed yet?
2020-04-25T00:57:19 < zyp> Cracki, https://github.com/SymbiFlow/prjx
2020-04-25T00:57:24 < zyp> https://github.com/SymbiFlow/prjxray
2020-04-25T00:57:25 < Cracki> they're making money with their secret sauce... but they keep more than the sauce a secret
2020-04-25T00:57:34 < Cracki> they could publish all the crypto stuff to make it auditable
2020-04-25T00:57:46 < Cracki> nice
2020-04-25T00:58:11 < PaulFertser> Interesting idea is that the protection used HMAC but in a little bit wrong way.
2020-04-25T00:58:25 < zyp> there's some support by the opensource toolchains, but doesn't seem very user friendly yet
2020-04-25T00:59:13 < catphish> i love hmac, the board i'm building will be using AES-CBC and HMAC-SHA1 for its network security
2020-04-25T01:00:05 < Cracki> r u sure you want cbc
2020-04-25T01:00:29 < catphish> is there a better option?
2020-04-25T01:01:22 < Cracki> not sure; maybe I'm mistaking it for some other block mode that's got big weaknesses. from the little I understand CBC has flaws.
2020-04-25T01:01:31 < Cracki> I've heard of "XTS", not sure if that suits you
2020-04-25T01:01:39 < zyp> ECB is the bad one
2020-04-25T01:01:50 < Cracki> some of those modes assume certain access patterns
2020-04-25T01:01:56 < zyp> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Block_cipher_mode_of_operation#Electronic_codebook_(ECB)
2020-04-25T01:01:56 < catphish> i should reread https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Block_cipher_mode_of_operation#Common_modes
2020-04-25T01:02:14 < catphish> CBC seems pretty good
2020-04-25T01:02:50 < Cracki> wish they'd clarify "This means that a plaintext block can be recovered from two adjacent blocks of ciphertext."
2020-04-25T01:02:57 < Cracki> sounds... weird
2020-04-25T01:03:11 < zyp> GCM seems common for various protocols
2020-04-25T01:04:27 < catphish> i don't really understand the problem with ECB
2020-04-25T01:04:36 < zyp> look at the photo
2020-04-25T01:04:54 < zyp> s/photo/picture/
2020-04-25T01:05:01 < Cracki> the fat penguin photo
2020-04-25T01:05:54 < catphish> so if you have a quantity of data, and you know one block of cleartext, you can see other blocks that have the same cleartext
2020-04-25T01:06:12 < catphish> ie all white bits of the photo look the same
2020-04-25T01:07:23 < zyp> you don't even have to know the plaintext, just doing a statistical analysis of the ciphertext can tell you a lot
2020-04-25T01:07:33 < catphish> yeah, this makes sense for large data blocks
2020-04-25T01:08:05 < zyp> if you only have one block of data, there's no difference between the modes, since the difference starts from the second block
2020-04-25T01:08:16 < catphish> not quite true
2020-04-25T01:08:25 < catphish> there's actually one "option" not listed here
2020-04-25T01:08:56 < catphish> a single block... with CBC the same cleartext always yields the same ciphertext
2020-04-25T01:09:19 < Cracki> note the IV
2020-04-25T01:09:20 < catphish> but presumably for sending lots of single blocks, one should still use a random "IV"
2020-04-25T01:09:49 < catphish> sorry, i meant "wit ECB"
2020-04-25T01:09:59 < zyp> doesn't have to be random, just not reused
2020-04-25T01:10:09 < zyp> a counter is fine
2020-04-25T01:10:34 < catphish> so even for single blocks (unless you only ever send one), ECB has a huge benefit
2020-04-25T01:10:45 < zyp> you mean CBC
2020-04-25T01:10:52 < catphish> oh my god, yes
2020-04-25T01:11:03 < catphish> i've gone fully retarded :(
2020-04-25T01:11:09 < zyp> and you can do ECB with an IV as well if you want :)
2020-04-25T01:11:23 < Cracki> can you do anything if you know it's a counter?
2020-04-25T01:11:31 < catphish> ECB with IV == CBC, right
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2020-04-25T01:11:46 < zyp> catphish, depends what the second block does
2020-04-25T01:11:56 < catphish> that's true
2020-04-25T01:12:10 < zyp> same IV: ECB, previous ciphertext as IV: CBC
2020-04-25T01:12:14 < catphish> CBC with random IV per block doubles your encrypte data size though
2020-04-25T01:12:33 < zyp> uh, that was not the point :)
2020-04-25T01:12:38 < catphish> *ECB
2020-04-25T01:12:44 < catphish> one day i'll say the right word
2020-04-25T01:13:02 < zyp> that's getting close to CTR mode
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2020-04-25T01:13:10 < Cracki> is the iv same size as a block? that'd be one time pad then
2020-04-25T01:13:10 < catphish> since every block you have to send the encrypted data *and* an IV
2020-04-25T01:13:26 < Cracki> almost otp
2020-04-25T01:13:34 < catphish> Cracki: not a one time pad, the IV is public and sent with the data
2020-04-25T01:13:42 < Cracki> right
2020-04-25T01:13:50 < zyp> doesn't have to be sent with the data if it can be deterministically generated
2020-04-25T01:13:53 < zyp> like a counter
2020-04-25T01:14:05 < zyp> and now you've invented a weird variant of CTR mode
2020-04-25T01:14:18 < zyp> anyway
2020-04-25T01:14:26 < catphish> yeah, i do disk encryption using a hash of the block number as the IV
2020-04-25T01:14:56 < zyp> the advantage of using a counter as IV is that it doubles as replay protection
2020-04-25T01:14:59 < catphish> ie 4k blocks, CBC, IV is some mangled version of the block offset
2020-04-25T01:15:33 < catphish> for my current work though i'm jus going to use CBC with a random IV and send it with the packet
2020-04-25T01:16:22 < catphish> separate to that i sign using HMAC, and put a version number in the data to serve as replay protection
2020-04-25T01:17:47 < catphish> zyp: i've realised a few problems i have to address, 1) having the STM32 initiate the connection to the server is hard, DNS and ARP introduce a ton of state that has to be managed :'(
2020-04-25T01:18:20 < catphish> 2) the server wants to send one-off commands like "unlock now" which need to be replay protected
2020-04-25T01:19:49 < qyx> you can do dns stateless, can't you?
2020-04-25T01:20:08 < catphish> qyx: not as a client
2020-04-25T01:20:12 < qyx> why
2020-04-25T01:20:35 < qyx> don't do reverse lookups, just forward to the upstream server
2020-04-25T01:20:43 < qyx> and make a request on every connection
2020-04-25T01:21:09 < qyx> *recursive of course
2020-04-25T01:21:40 < catphish> making a request on every connection still means you need to remember you've sent the request, and have your packet waiting when the reply comes
2020-04-25T01:21:48 < catphish> plus dns has to wait for ARP
2020-04-25T01:22:00 < catphish> so you have a queue of things waiting to happen
2020-04-25T01:22:05 < Cracki> ok so your state is the IP for a given hostname, and the MAC for a given IP
2020-04-25T01:22:22 < Cracki> and that should be one each, if you have one server
2020-04-25T01:22:32 < catphish> well, it's more about waiting for the answers to the requests for those things
2020-04-25T01:22:46 < Cracki> do them once at boot? :>
2020-04-25T01:22:58 < qyx> or a simple "multi state" machine
2020-04-25T01:23:03 < catphish> i suppose i could just constantly try to have them, and only send pakets if both are ready
2020-04-25T01:23:09 < qyx> bool dns_mac_known;
2020-04-25T01:23:21 < qyx> bool server_ip_known;
2020-04-25T01:23:24 < catphish> one thread always tries to get ARP, one thread always tries to get DNS
2020-04-25T01:23:26 < qyx> bool server_mac_known;
2020-04-25T01:23:31 < catphish> and if both are known, send normal data
2020-04-25T01:23:42 < Cracki> ye better not queue up unlock packets and suddenly release them a minute later when the human has abandoned the door
2020-04-25T01:23:42 < qyx> and every 5sec check all variables and act accordingly
2020-04-25T01:24:08 < catphish> qyx: you're right, that's exactly what i need to do
2020-04-25T01:24:33 < catphish> if mac not known, get mac, and forget doing anything else, then same for dns
2020-04-25T01:24:42 < qyx> or you can still grab andintegrate lwip
2020-04-25T01:24:43 < catphish> and then once both are cached, send data
2020-04-25T01:24:46 < catphish> oh, also dhcp
2020-04-25T01:24:51 < catphish> it's 3 steps
2020-04-25T01:24:51 < qyx> that too
2020-04-25T01:25:07 < catphish> but handing them all separately with no queueing seems much saner
2020-04-25T01:25:34 < catphish> if no dhcp lease, just forget trying to arp the router
2020-04-25T01:25:44 < catphish> if no arp, forget trying to get dns
2020-04-25T01:26:09 < catphish> if all known, then finally send data to the server
2020-04-25T01:27:24 < catphish> sending to the server is mostly just a "hello here i am" anyway, anything important goes the other way, from the control server, and will be handled statelessly
2020-04-25T01:27:49 < catphish> thanks mr qyx 
2020-04-25T01:28:21 < qyx> you are welcome mr captish
2020-04-25T01:31:05 < catphish> like this https://paste.ubuntu.com/p/nh9dYnFbk7/
2020-04-25T01:31:29 < catphish> there will also be some timers to invalidate those things at sane intervals
2020-04-25T01:31:38 < catphish> but yeah, i like it
2020-04-25T01:32:39 < catphish> this will never be the world's best IP stack, but if it's simple and reliable i'll be happy
2020-04-25T01:34:41 < catphish> this is how all books should be ordered https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-suffolk-52412655
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2020-04-25T01:42:20 < Cracki> lol
2020-04-25T01:43:28 < Cracki> the apocalypse has its upsides. lots of chance to do maintenance you can't do with normal business in the way
2020-04-25T01:44:23 < catphish> i've spent the whole lockdown so far migrating services and data to a new data centre remotely
2020-04-25T01:46:33 < Steffanx> Why don't you have a system where such migration takes 2 clicks and a beer?
2020-04-25T01:47:32 < zyp> got the new hard drive today, it's currently 29% through resilvering
2020-04-25T01:47:44 < zyp> apparently it's running colder than all the seagates: https://paste.jvnv.net/view/HVNw8
2020-04-25T01:48:32 < Steffanx> I dont recall I've ever seen my disks anywhere close to 55C
2020-04-25T01:48:54 < zyp> I should probably vacuum the air inlets
2020-04-25T01:49:12 < zyp> I did on the carrier for slot 4 when I changed the disk
2020-04-25T01:49:19 < zyp> so maybe that's part of why :p
2020-04-25T01:49:22 < Steffanx> Hah
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2020-04-25T01:49:27 < kakimir> yes
2020-04-25T01:50:16 < catphish> Steffanx: we do, we just finished developing it, we're migrating to it :p
2020-04-25T01:50:19 < Steffanx> You have them heavily cooled with way too loud see
2020-04-25T01:50:28 < Steffanx> Server fans*
2020-04-25T01:50:52 < Steffanx> ?
2020-04-25T01:51:23 < zyp> no, I swapped the fans for some noctua ones when I had the server sitting in my office
2020-04-25T01:52:23 < zyp> and also the disks are currently resilvering so they've all been fully active for hours now
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2020-04-25T01:54:56 < kakimir> how is innovation?
2020-04-25T01:56:25 < Steffanx> Dead.
2020-04-25T01:56:42 < Steffanx> Corronizzled.
2020-04-25T01:56:46 < Steffanx> There?
2020-04-25T01:57:30 < zyp> I'm wondering what to do about the CRC stuff in the USB core
2020-04-25T01:57:57 < kakimir> calculate
2020-04-25T01:58:00 < Cracki> HDD temp shouldn't move much because of r/w access itself. temp is largely the spindle motor and head movements.
2020-04-25T01:58:21 < zyp> data packets got a CRC-16, i.e. two bytes following the payload, neat and easy
2020-04-25T01:58:30 < zyp> but token packets got a CRC-5
2020-04-25T01:58:42 < catphish> eww
2020-04-25T01:58:45 < zyp> 13 bits of payload and 5-bits of checksum
2020-04-25T01:59:43 < zyp> I'm wondering if I should still do a 8-bit wide checker (which is easy enough for the checker, more annoying for the adder) or just do the whole 13 bits at once
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2020-04-25T02:02:12 < zyp> hmm, the latter is probably gonna be faster, I don't have to keep state and can fold the entire initial value
2020-04-25T02:07:22 < zyp> https://paste.jvnv.net/view/Ye779 <- perhaps something like this
2020-04-25T02:09:59 < Steffanx> :)
2020-04-25T02:21:01 < Cracki> does the order of those operands matter? they look shuffled interestingly
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2020-04-25T02:23:13 < sync> oh is it Steffanx? ):
2020-04-25T02:23:30 < sync> here innovation is stronker than before
2020-04-25T02:24:11 < Steffanx> Yeah. Because I'm still working from home or in the office
2020-04-25T02:25:12 < Steffanx> My work days are like 12+ hours now (not actively working). I should stop doing that. Kinda a waste of my days. Coronizzled 
2020-04-25T02:25:16 < kakimir> https://www.ttiinc.com/content/ttiinc/en/manufacturers/k-o/kemet/products/fp_KEMET_TipnRing.html#TCTab_default what does tip&ring refer to?
2020-04-25T02:26:11 < kakimir> 250VDC Telco rating
2020-04-25T02:27:15 < kakimir> telecom ringer circuits
2020-04-25T02:27:23 < sync> Steffanx: kinda, yeah
2020-04-25T02:27:30 < kakimir> block 48V
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2020-04-25T02:27:58 < sync> I just drink coffee in the sun until the sun is low enough that the backyard is full of shadow and then start the workday
2020-04-25T02:28:19 < ds2> sync, where is here?
2020-04-25T02:28:36 < sync> germany
2020-04-25T02:32:19 < qyx> lol
2020-04-25T02:33:53 < kakimir> start work at 4pm?
2020-04-25T02:34:02 < kakimir> that's the way we do it
2020-04-25T02:34:53 < sync> still sun on the yard at 4pm
2020-04-25T02:35:43 < kakimir> probs
2020-04-25T02:36:00 < kakimir> depends on silhouette of surroundings 
2020-04-25T02:36:59 < sync> yes
2020-04-25T02:37:26 < Steffanx> Thats a loooot of coffee then
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2020-04-25T02:42:15 < kakimir> any tan?
2020-04-25T02:42:44 < kakimir> naked ofc? it's the law
2020-04-25T02:43:02 < Steffanx> Its not a sauna..
2020-04-25T02:45:57 < kakimir> don't you know germans?
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2020-04-25T03:04:07 < Cracki> Freikörperkultur
2020-04-25T03:04:10 < Cracki> much dangling
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2020-04-25T03:10:46 < englishman> catphish>	this wouldn't be a problem if the designs were open source
2020-04-25T03:10:54 < englishman> did you just apply that all opensores is flawless?
2020-04-25T03:11:00 < englishman> imply
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2020-04-25T04:36:25 < Thorn> Progress MS-14 launch https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Il9yAubhGU4
2020-04-25T04:37:53 < Thorn> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=21X5lGlDOfg
2020-04-25T04:55:20 < jadew> when are the astronauts going to take that space x shuttle?
2020-04-25T04:55:27 < jadew> *rocket
2020-04-25T04:55:48 < Thorn> in a month
2020-04-25T04:56:00 < jadew> I want to see that one
2020-04-25T04:56:07 < Thorn> unless they become sick with corona
2020-04-25T04:56:29 < jadew> they can stay isolated in space
2020-04-25T05:04:50 < Thorn> docking ini 2.5 hours https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AwyUK9493eE
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2020-04-25T05:31:42 < jadew> I want to share something
2020-04-25T05:31:47 < jadew> https://asset.conrad.com/media10/isa/160267/c1/-/en/468323_BB_00_LO/image.jpg
2020-04-25T05:32:02 < jadew> ^ life changing technology
2020-04-25T05:33:02 < jadew> I use two around the bench, got them to keep some shielding cans in place while testing something but they can also keep cables in place, so your shit doesn't fall off from the edge of the desk
2020-04-25T05:33:18 < jadew> you just clamp that on the edge of the desk and have the wires going through the opening
2020-04-25T05:33:32 < jadew> -80% frustration
2020-04-25T05:40:08 < jadew> anyone got access to a calibrated 3 GHz noise figure analyzer and is willing to measure a device for me? I'll pay.
2020-04-25T05:44:39 < aandrew> heh
2020-04-25T05:44:48 < aandrew> yeah clamps are life changing
2020-04-25T05:45:27 < jadew> yeah, they really alleviated a stress I didn't even know I was feeling when running experiments
2020-04-25T05:45:59 < jadew> because you always end up with hanging wires and probes
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2020-04-25T05:57:46 < Thorn> what is the maximum acceptable voltage on a pin of a powered down stm32? I want to feed the LSE from a signal generator and I don't want to damage the chip of I turn the generator on before the board
2020-04-25T06:08:34 < Cracki> also current; it may be very little because clamping diodes go into supply and you might be able to actually wake it up a little
2020-04-25T06:09:06 < Cracki> I don't think that'd damage it but datashiet would know
2020-04-25T06:14:17 < Cracki> my f303 gives maximum ratings of vdd(=0) + 4.0 for FT/FTf pins and always 4.0 volts for TTa and other pins
2020-04-25T06:15:16 < Cracki> so I guess normal 3.3v to a pin while it's off is considered safe, but it also gives me maximum injection currents (next table) that I'd have to watch. it says ~5 mA here
2020-04-25T06:16:54 < Cracki> pins should be high impedance while it's off so that should be solved
2020-04-25T06:25:10 < Cracki> clock input pins may be speshul for you. my osc_in/out are labeled 5v tolerant
2020-04-25T06:37:39 < Thorn> there was a sad story on habr.com about 50% of a production run (shipped to customers!) failing because they were supplying Vbus onto a gpio pin for USB detection before the mcu was powered. there is an app note from ST about it, too (referenced in that article, they found it in the end but it was too late lol) but I can't find it
2020-04-25T06:37:46 < Thorn> 4V sounds about right though
2020-04-25T06:38:07 < Thorn> generator's source impedance is 50Ω as usual
2020-04-25T06:43:57 < Cracki> oh boy vbus sensing
2020-04-25T06:44:20 < Cracki> my f303 doesn't do it itself and it has no pullup resistor on D+ or whatever itwas
2020-04-25T06:44:37 < Thorn> https://habr.com/ru/company/thirdpin/blog/466533/. 
2020-04-25T06:44:38 < Thorn> https://www.st.com/content/ccc/resource/technical/document/application_note/group0/13/c0/f6/6c/29/3b/47/b3/DM00315319/files/DM00315319.pdf/jcr:content/translations/en.DM00315319.pdf
2020-04-25T06:44:46 < Cracki> so I have to spend one gpio for sensing and another to engage the pullup conditionally (if self-powered, which this is)
2020-04-25T06:44:51 < Thorn> I remembered the weird name of that project
2020-04-25T06:45:13 < Thorn> >The VBUS pad of STM32 devices is five-volt tolerant, However, it needs to comply with the VDD maximum rating. If STM32 is supplied from an independent supply, it is not allowed to connect VBUS as long as STM32 is not supplied. 
2020-04-25T06:45:27 < Cracki> the... usb centipede
2020-04-25T06:45:54 < Thorn> not reading that phrase until too late has cost them quite a bit lol
2020-04-25T06:46:36 < Cracki> ye I told boss to do a voltage divider so with usb being allowed to be 5.25v it ought to be inside 3.3v
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2020-04-25T07:11:52 < fenugrec> Thorn, or, you could ahve your siggen drive a mosfet inverter (open drain to VDD), so the pin never sees more than VDD
2020-04-25T07:13:06 < Thorn> pin headers are nasty enough, adding more stuff to break mechanically and lose contact is the last thing I want lol
2020-04-25T07:15:44 < Spirit532> I've stumbled onto a small problem
2020-04-25T07:16:01 < Spirit532> https://i.spirit.re/f4gE6.png
2020-04-25T07:16:09 < Spirit532> I have a CAN transceiver sitting on boot0
2020-04-25T07:16:20 < Spirit532> ... and conveniently, it outputs HIGH, 5V, when it's idle.
2020-04-25T07:16:35 < Spirit532> is there a way to bypass boot0?
2020-04-25T07:17:11 < Spirit532> or do I have to do weird fuckery with transistors and such
2020-04-25T07:17:12 < Thorn> afaik if boot0 is shared there should be option bytes to configure boot and bypass the pin?
2020-04-25T07:17:53 < Spirit532> not sure where I'd find them in cubemx
2020-04-25T07:18:14 < Thorn> try the cube programmer
2020-04-25T07:18:16 < Thorn> Progress docking soon https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AwyUK9493eE https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=21X5lGlDOfg
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2020-04-25T07:21:19 < Spirit532> oh, there it is, in option bytes in the cube programmer
2020-04-25T07:21:29 < Spirit532> thanks, that was less painful than I thought
2020-04-25T07:22:17 < Spirit532> now onto the next issue, USB VCP CDC is just /not working/
2020-04-25T07:22:50 < Spirit532> I've increased the heap and stack size to 1000, tried dropping USB_HS_MAX_PACKET_SIZE to 256(even though this device can only do FS)
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2020-04-25T07:23:46 < Spirit532> https://i.spirit.re/dPWMp.png
2020-04-25T07:23:53 < Spirit532> and I'm pretty damn certain this is not wrong either
2020-04-25T07:25:14 < Spirit532> only thing I don't have is external pullups on DP/DM, but surely that's not it?
2020-04-25T07:26:02 < Thorn> most stm32 have builtin pullups
2020-04-25T07:26:19 < Spirit532> it's a g431, so it should too
2020-04-25T07:26:25 < Thorn> did you disable Vbus sensing?
2020-04-25T07:26:35 < Spirit532> there isn't any on this chip afaik
2020-04-25T07:26:52 < Spirit532> STM32G431CBU6, in a QFN48
2020-04-25T07:27:06 < Spirit532> CubeMX says nothing about vbus
2020-04-25T07:28:04 < Thorn> is it completely dead? does it enumerate? is usb interrupt firing? or what the situation is
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2020-04-25T07:28:16 < Spirit532> windows says descriptor request failed
2020-04-25T07:28:48 < Spirit532> I haven't touched the code yet besides blinky, standard cubemx generated output
2020-04-25T07:29:08 < Cracki> is this usb-powered or self powered?
2020-04-25T07:29:12 < Thorn> well I dunno about HAL USB, I'm using my own usb stack, and it works lol
2020-04-25T07:29:16 < Spirit532> self-powered
2020-04-25T07:29:20 < Cracki> k
2020-04-25T07:29:32 < Cracki> define "doesn't work", does it enumerate?
2020-04-25T07:29:58 < Spirit532> windows sees the device but fails to get descriptors
2020-04-25T07:30:10 < Spirit532> I've never debugged stm32 usb so this is new for me
2020-04-25T07:30:47 < Thorn> is the interrupt handler set up and interrupt enabled?
2020-04-25T07:31:04 < Spirit532> do I need it?
2020-04-25T07:31:37 < Cracki> cubemx generated code should be enough. it does MX_USB_DEVICE_Init(); automatically... I'll check what else I do that makes it work
2020-04-25T07:31:39 < Thorn> well either you poll or use an interrupt
2020-04-25T07:31:59 < Thorn> *the interrupt
2020-04-25T07:32:05 < Spirit532> https://i.spirit.re/iR903.png
2020-04-25T07:32:38 < Spirit532> yeah, so I guess it's not enabled
2020-04-25T07:33:01 < Spirit532> but cubemx should make it work by default
2020-04-25T07:33:03 < Cracki> that's to remap it. you likely don't need to remap
2020-04-25T07:33:21 < Cracki> remap is for when it conflicts with some other peripheral of the stm32
2020-04-25T07:33:54 < Cracki> for some reason I have usb interrupt remap enabled but that may be because I've enabled can too
2020-04-25T07:34:07 < Spirit532> I do have can enabled
2020-04-25T07:34:08 < Spirit532> FDCAN
2020-04-25T07:34:40 < Spirit532> both CAN interrupts are disabled
2020-04-25T07:36:33 < Cracki> in MX_USB_DEVICE_Init I pull down the one usb line to generate a "SE0" briefly, that resets the bus. I... do that when I sense vbus
2020-04-25T07:36:54 < Cracki> but yours just has trouble with descriptors. I'm beat
2020-04-25T07:37:09 < Spirit532> anywhere I can dig to figure out what the issue is?
2020-04-25T07:37:25 < Cracki> wireshark the usb maybe?
2020-04-25T07:38:07 < Spirit532> apparently it's VID0 and PID2
2020-04-25T07:38:07 < Cracki> maybe enable some instrumentation/tracing with your debugger to see what code the chip runs
2020-04-25T07:40:25 < Spirit532> apparently wireshark can't see it for some reason
2020-04-25T07:44:17 < Spirit532> ah, there it is
2020-04-25T07:44:22 < Spirit532> seeing a "malformed packet"
2020-04-25T07:44:45 < Spirit532> https://i.spirit.re/tUrm4.png
2020-04-25T07:46:51 < Thorn> try another cable lol
2020-04-25T07:47:20 < Spirit532> did, and ports
2020-04-25T07:51:02 < Thorn> is it a custom board? signal integrity problem?
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2020-04-25T07:52:36 < Spirit532> custom board
2020-04-25T07:52:37 < Spirit532> https://i.spirit.re/r5ZLT.png
2020-04-25T07:52:49 < Spirit532> I don't think this is a signal integrity issue, given it's sitting over and under a ground plane
2020-04-25T07:53:30 < Spirit532> I even corrected for skew
2020-04-25T07:54:00 < Thorn> it doesn't matter @ 12 MHz
2020-04-25T07:54:22 < Spirit532> I know
2020-04-25T07:55:25 < Spirit532> I'm running crystal-less, by the way
2020-04-25T07:55:33 < Spirit532> but the G4 series explicitly states that it's supported and ok
2020-04-25T07:55:43 < Thorn> but did you enable CRS?
2020-04-25T07:55:48 < Spirit532> https://i.spirit.re/KkSJM.png
2020-04-25T07:56:53 < Thorn> the CRS box is grey
2020-04-25T07:57:01 < Thorn> it's probably disabled
2020-04-25T07:57:11 < Spirit532> it is also called CSS
2020-04-25T07:57:17 < Spirit532> and yes, because there's no external clock
2020-04-25T07:57:18 < Thorn> no that's different
2020-04-25T07:57:35 < Spirit532> oh, I see CRS
2020-04-25T07:57:43 < Spirit532> why would it be disabled?
2020-04-25T07:58:24 < Thorn> you need to enable it specifically
2020-04-25T07:59:07 < Spirit532> let's see if that works
2020-04-25T08:00:29 < Spirit532> nope
2020-04-25T08:00:57 < Spirit532> https://i.spirit.re/R2UWY.png
2020-04-25T08:01:05 < Spirit532> here's all the parameters I can set
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2020-04-25T08:10:45 < Cracki> is that in the RCC peripheral?
2020-04-25T08:10:54 < Spirit532> CRS
2020-04-25T08:11:03 < Cracki> yes
2020-04-25T08:11:07 < Cracki> look in the rcc peripheral
2020-04-25T08:11:07 < Spirit532> well, yes, in RCC in cube
2020-04-25T08:11:08 < Spirit532> yes
2020-04-25T08:11:14 < Cracki> hmhm
2020-04-25T08:11:27 < Spirit532> I set CRS SYNC to USB_FS, and it gave me these parameters
2020-04-25T08:11:49 < Cracki> sounds good
2020-04-25T08:12:46 < Thorn> contact confirmed, capture confirmed
2020-04-25T08:12:52 < Cracki> there must be more. it shouldn't be gray. everything else that's gray is disabled.
2020-04-25T08:13:10 < Spirit532> it is now not gray
2020-04-25T08:13:22 < Spirit532> it now shows 48MHz, and I can't change it because it connects directly to HSI48 RC
2020-04-25T08:13:46 < Cracki> this maybe? https://community.st.com/s/question/0D50X0000BL7c7YSQR/why-i-could-not-configure-hse-by-clock-configuration-of-cubemx-530
2020-04-25T08:14:23 < Cracki> oh it's not gray anymore? yey
2020-04-25T08:15:34 < Spirit532> changed nothing though
2020-04-25T08:15:42 < Cracki> nvm my eyes can't tell TLAs apart anymore
2020-04-25T08:28:46 < Spirit532> so, any other clues?
2020-04-25T08:28:57 < Spirit532> only thing I can think of is this ESD protection device messing with things
2020-04-25T08:29:02 < Spirit532> but... probably not?
2020-04-25T08:39:00 < Cracki> I would look for known working code you can (build and) program to your target, examples in the HAL package maybe
2020-04-25T08:40:30 < Spirit532> you assume the HAL examples are known working
2020-04-25T08:40:53 < Spirit532> I'm fairly certain they're generated by a neural network in ST's basement
2020-04-25T08:43:53 < Cracki> I wish
2020-04-25T08:44:22 < Cracki> they're generated by 386 monkeys with 386 chisels on 386 stone tablets
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2020-04-25T09:54:24 < boddax> abaci quadram conputant
2020-04-25T10:13:39 < strata> there are only 19 monkies
2020-04-25T10:14:01 < strata> j/k. it was 12 monkeys.
2020-04-25T10:14:06 < strata> and 19 bats
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2020-04-25T15:34:45 < catphish> can i cascade timers to get a 1-second counter without using interrupts?
2020-04-25T15:35:35 < catphish> ie 180MHZ->Timer as divider->Timer as 1-second uptime counter
2020-04-25T15:41:08 < specing> yes, TRGO
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2020-04-25T15:45:07 < catphish> specing: got it, thanks!
2020-04-25T15:45:23 < catphish> they have a nice example in the RM even "Using one timer as prescaler for another timer"
2020-04-25T15:53:55 < specing> yes
2020-04-25T15:54:39 < specing> I have it set up so that  timer trigger ADC conversion sequence, ADC conversion complete triggers DMA, DMA complete triggers interrupt.
2020-04-25T15:54:57 < specing> and my code gets the values deposited into a nice array
2020-04-25T16:08:45 < Cracki> catphish, what's wrong with the timer's own prescaler? or do you want to count at 180 mhz and need more than the 16 bit range?
2020-04-25T16:09:49 < Cracki> or do you need a severe prescaler so it counts at 1 hz?
2020-04-25T16:11:28 < catphish> ^ the last thing
2020-04-25T16:12:19 < catphish> i want essentially a real time clock
2020-04-25T16:12:34 < specing> and there is no RTC?
2020-04-25T16:13:22 < catphish> actually there *is* an RTC, this might work
2020-04-25T16:14:36 < catphish> the main things i wan to do are 1) run tasks every 5 seconds  2) set expiry of caches to a specific number of seconds in the future
2020-04-25T16:14:40 < Cracki> just looked up systick, reference says for one register: "MIGHT contain the number of ticks to generate a 10ms interval ..."
2020-04-25T16:15:06 < Cracki> and you want one interrupt per second and not more, eh
2020-04-25T16:15:42 < Cracki> rtc is probably very elegant for this. if not, I wouldn't feel dirty doing software timers in whatever interval is convenient
2020-04-25T16:16:51 < catphish> i figured chaining 2 timers, i could have one count in 100us intervals, then the second count at 1s intervals, then i can always read the time since boot at whatever accuracy is needed
2020-04-25T16:17:41 < catphish> i'll see what the rtc offers though
2020-04-25T16:18:40 < Cracki> if you need the finer division anyway I'd just do that
2020-04-25T16:19:05 < catphish> rtc seems like it's designed to store an actual "time"
2020-04-25T16:19:12 < catphish> which isn't quite what i want
2020-04-25T16:20:46 < catphish> even though i will periodically get the time from an NTP server and store it along with the current uptime to allow me to calculate the actual real time, i want the uptime counter to always count upwards
2020-04-25T16:21:59 < catphish> so yeah, i'll use a 16 bit timer to divide my 180MHz clock by 18,000 to get a 100us counter, which will reset at 10,000 and increment a 32 bit counter of seconds
2020-04-25T16:23:44 < catphish> then i can set alarms in software and have my main processing loop check when they're due
2020-04-25T16:23:52 < specing> catphish: RTC already has time drift compensation and stuff 
2020-04-25T16:24:09 < catphish> specing: yeah i just noticed that, that's cool
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2020-04-25T16:37:16 < the_spacebyte> Hi guys, a doubt regarding rtc synchronization with a gps. I'm a novice on this and am not sure how should I approach this. Should I set the time on the RTC at every pulse (when I read nmea/ubx messages) or should I only set it once and then use only the pps signal to feed the clock? I'm using chibios.
2020-04-25T16:38:02 < karlp> catphish: if you just want an upcounter, it's still totally valid to use rtc to tick along your own counter.
2020-04-25T16:39:42 < the_spacebyte> I'll be using the rtc only to timestamp some data when sending it upstream
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2020-04-25T17:06:27 < Cracki> 1pps or whatever to clock it sure, but i'd compare and set if needed only
2020-04-25T17:06:57 < Cracki> I'd probably check how setting the rtc affects rtc
2020-04-25T17:08:38 < Cracki> if subsecond accuracy is important to you, you need to work with the 1pps signal because the nmea messages can't be timed precisely
2020-04-25T17:13:12 < Cracki> very carefully selected material http://w8bh.net/avr/clock2.pdf
2020-04-25T17:15:25 < Cracki> I'd work with the docs of your gps time module, which remains unnamed
2020-04-25T17:17:06 < Cracki> the very carefully selected material is tarduino grade. he's fucking around with the pps in unspeakable ways
2020-04-25T17:23:06 < jpa-> the_spacebyte: i'd set the RTC if it is unset or the difference is large (more than a few seconds), otherwise just adjust the trim based on the difference
2020-04-25T17:23:17 < jpa-> that way you'd keep accurate time even if you temporarily lose GPS fix
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2020-04-25T17:29:22 < the_spacebyte> Cracki: yeah I noticed some ms delay between the pps edge and messages coming in.
2020-04-25T17:30:00 < the_spacebyte> jpa: I'll experiment with that. Setting the offset and perhaps acounting for the delay I mentioned above
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2020-04-25T17:43:28 < Cracki> you don't really "account" for the delay
2020-04-25T17:43:50 < Cracki> you use the gps module's output as clock, its 1pps for phase, and the message to know which second you're in
2020-04-25T17:44:27 < Cracki> the message can jitter, decoding it can jitter. don't measure the message except if you want to make sure it's within epxected delay of the 1pps
2020-04-25T17:44:58 < Thorn> oh beautiful. I'm reading mp3 data into a ring buffer but the mp3 decoder expects a contiguous buffer
2020-04-25T17:45:22 < Cracki> does the decoder tolerate 1 byte or 1 word of buffer?
2020-04-25T17:45:27 < Thorn> so my decode stops when the 1st buffer worth of data is exhausted
2020-04-25T17:46:02 < Thorn> Cracki : no, it needs to look ahead to search for frames and skip other crap ("tags")
2020-04-25T17:47:01 < Cracki> hmhm
2020-04-25T17:47:16 < Cracki> ah, you mean the read buffer?
2020-04-25T17:47:48 < Thorn> yes sure
2020-04-25T17:48:01 < Cracki> so... you'll need two buffers, read into one until full, present, read into the other...
2020-04-25T17:48:02 < Thorn> do I have to implement a stupid coder's buffer (i.e. move the rest of the data to the beginning with some data is consumed)?
2020-04-25T17:48:08 < Thorn> s/with/when/
2020-04-25T17:48:14 < Cracki> or does this decoder offer any alternative?
2020-04-25T17:48:49 < Cracki> can you have one buffer, read into it until full, present to decoder, continue from start?
2020-04-25T17:48:54 < Thorn> Cracki: won't work, it will choke the same way when it eats all useful data in the 1st buffer
2020-04-25T17:49:05 < Cracki> how is this thing paced
2020-04-25T17:49:18 < Cracki> it shouldn't choke, it should just signal hunger
2020-04-25T17:49:40 < Thorn> well it kind of does, it returns 0 samples decoded
2020-04-25T17:49:44 < BrainDamage> yes, the timing of the PPS is the only one that's guaranteed to be accurate
2020-04-25T17:49:54 < BrainDamage> the NMEA string is just loosely timed
2020-04-25T17:52:04 < Cracki> Thorn, how does the decoder _want_ its data? sounds weird.
2020-04-25T17:52:40 < Thorn> pointer to next unconsumed data and the length of available data
2020-04-25T17:52:52 < Cracki> I mean, it's supposed to be given data incrementally, even if it's from a file. it can't be given everything or arbitrarily much at once
2020-04-25T17:53:13 < Cracki> you do that, right?
2020-04-25T17:53:31 < Thorn> it will decode 1 frame and return the # of bytes consumed and the # of samples decoded
2020-04-25T17:53:43 < Cracki> point to tail of buffer + length or end of buffer, let it eat that, repeat
2020-04-25T17:53:46 < Thorn> (if it has enough useful data that is)
2020-04-25T17:53:47 < Cracki> oh
2020-04-25T17:53:58 < Cracki> so it may refuse to consume bytes? oookeh
2020-04-25T17:54:52 < Thorn> if samples == 0 and bytes consumed > 0 it means it skipped useless data and didn't find a complete frame to decode
2020-04-25T17:55:02 < Cracki> how are you supposed to feed this thing if it doesn't consume all bytes it's given at once? copy the leftovers plus more data into another buffer?
2020-04-25T17:55:04 < Cracki> what is this library
2020-04-25T17:55:57 < Thorn> if the complete mp3 file is ini memory just call it again with data_ptr + bytes_consumed_so_far, data_size - bytes_consumed_so_far
2020-04-25T17:56:05 < Thorn> https://github.com/lieff/minimp3
2020-04-25T17:57:00 < Thorn> mp3dec_decode_frame()
2020-04-25T17:57:50 < Thorn> >you must remove the data corresponding to the frame_bytes field from the input buffer before the next decoder invocation
2020-04-25T17:58:57 < Thorn> which sounds like a ring buffer except it can't use one
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2020-04-25T18:01:46 < Cracki> bug report :D
2020-04-25T18:02:07 < Thorn> writing one already lol
2020-04-25T18:02:13 < Cracki> browsing, they have examples right?
2020-04-25T18:02:24 < Thorn> but it does look like I'm going to have to move data
2020-04-25T18:02:57 < Thorn> there's an "_ex.h" with a high level layer but their streaming implementation still keeps all input data in memory
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2020-04-25T18:03:18 < Cracki> mp3dec_decode_frame, decodes "frame by frame", so I guess you want to give it whole frames. can you read such that it gets a whole frame at a time?
2020-04-25T18:03:38 < Thorn> I's have to parse mp3 data
2020-04-25T18:03:47 < Cracki> i.e. parse the structure so you are aware of frames
2020-04-25T18:04:20 < Thorn> and redo part of the work that the decoder does (skipping bad data, etc.)
2020-04-25T18:04:22 < Cracki> I'm vaguely aware that mp3 CAN be a containerless thing, i.e. just the bitstream
2020-04-25T18:04:28 < Cracki> hmhm
2020-04-25T18:05:56 < Cracki> "readed"? who wrote that: size_t readed = mp3dec_ex_read...
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2020-04-25T18:06:39 < Thorn> avoids conflict with read(2) or something maybe
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2020-04-25T18:07:52 < Cracki> I reach for nread, nbread, numread, bytesread, ...
2020-04-25T18:09:08 < jpa-> but none of them are on wiktionary, while "readed" is! :)
2020-04-25T18:11:18 < Cracki> they have a "player" but I can't find the decode_frame call, only ex_read: https://github.com/lieff/minimp3/blob/master/player/decode.c#L56
2020-04-25T18:12:22 < Cracki> broadcasted, catched, ...
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2020-04-25T18:41:43 < bitmask> Steffanx you here?
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2020-04-25T18:54:54 < Steffanx> No?
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2020-04-25T18:57:45 < Steffanx> 👋 bitmask 
2020-04-25T18:57:56 < bitmask> hi
2020-04-25T18:58:07 < bitmask> i finally deposited my stimulus, 30 minutes later and its all gone
2020-04-25T18:59:16 < Steffanx> Lol. Did you spend it all in China?
2020-04-25T18:59:26 < bitmask> nah, paying off debts and bills
2020-04-25T19:00:18 < Steffanx> Would be funny. Get free Yankee money and spend it all in china
2020-04-25T19:00:46 < bitmask> at least I'm back to current now.  I've owed my aunt for a long time now, feels good to be done with that
2020-04-25T19:00:54 < bitmask> haha yea, fuck you trump
2020-04-25T19:01:53 < bitmask> I kinda want to print this mask but theres too much wrong with it to pay $1 for it https://cults3d.com/en/3d-model/various/cubre-boca-scorpion-mk-11-con-filtros-intercambiables
2020-04-25T19:02:22 < Steffanx> Thingiverse also had quite a few of them
2020-04-25T19:02:40 < Steffanx> Not this exact model ofcourse
2020-04-25T19:02:51 < friendofafriend> That thing is weird looking.
2020-04-25T19:03:05 < bitmask> yea I printed one a couple days ago but I decided I dont like how it looks so im looking for another
2020-04-25T19:03:15 < bitmask> friendofafriend its scorpion from mk
2020-04-25T19:03:54 < Steffanx> So low poly?
2020-04-25T19:03:55 < bitmask> between these two: https://cults3d.com/en/3d-model/art/covid-19-mask-new-version-0-5 and more probably since its free: https://www.thingiverse.com/thing:4273168
2020-04-25T19:04:10 < bitmask> well thats probably why its only $1
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2020-04-25T19:04:27 < Steffanx> I don't even know what "scorpion from mk" means :P
2020-04-25T19:04:34 < Steffanx> Must be some game I don't play
2020-04-25T19:04:41 < bitmask> plus the filter holes are shitty, so few holes to breathe through and the strap fittings are crap because they arent raised and off your face
2020-04-25T19:04:47 < friendofafriend> I've been printing these off.  https://www.thingiverse.com/thing:4260708/
2020-04-25T19:04:47 < bitmask> mortal kombat
2020-04-25T19:05:18 < Steffanx> Here in dutchland we don't really do maks
2020-04-25T19:05:24 < Cracki> >utah teapot montana edit
2020-04-25T19:05:27 < catphish> simple and effective high precision uptime counter  :) https://paste.ubuntu.com/p/qjdJNXdN2w/
2020-04-25T19:05:58 < friendofafriend> They turned out quite good, you'll be pleased.  There's a little bit of support on the mask.
2020-04-25T19:06:08 < bitmask> they look like pig snouts
2020-04-25T19:06:32 < friendofafriend> They've been revised to be snoutier, the first revs had a smaller breathing hole.
2020-04-25T19:07:16 < friendofafriend> But you could reenact your favorite scenes from Deliverance, too.
2020-04-25T19:07:26 < bitmask> im gonna try this one first: https://www.thingiverse.com/thing:4273168
2020-04-25T19:07:27 < catphish> DHL have my PCBs in London, they're aiming to deliver them next monday :( i really hope they don't actually wait that long
2020-04-25T19:08:14 < catphish> regular UK post would get them here a week sooner than that!
2020-04-25T19:08:35 < friendofafriend> bitmask: What does your service charge?
2020-04-25T19:08:45 < bitmask> service?
2020-04-25T19:09:25 < friendofafriend> I thought you were printing through a service, I guess not.
2020-04-25T19:09:33 < bitmask> oh, no, i have a printer
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2020-04-25T19:09:43 < friendofafriend> Oh, you were talking about paying for a *model*, sorry.
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2020-04-25T19:09:53 < bitmask> oh right
2020-04-25T19:10:35 < friendofafriend> Honestly, all these printed masks suck.  Even the ones I'm rolling out.
2020-04-25T19:11:41 < friendofafriend> I've only seen a design or two that implements an exhalation valve.
2020-04-25T19:12:16 < bitmask> the first one I printed has one, the profile sucks though, looks like a toucan
2020-04-25T19:12:30 < bitmask> https://www.prusaprinters.org/prints/29096-covid-19-emergency-mask-with-the-use-of-cotton-pad/
2020-04-25T19:12:46 < friendofafriend> Without a valve, you've got wet hospital ass on your face.  If you mess up the valve you're, breathing around the filter.
2020-04-25T19:13:32 < friendofafriend> Comma fail.  Those are the cotton pads kids use for their acne, right?
2020-04-25T19:14:00 < jpa-> friendofafriend: exhalation valve is for selfish people, only thing that the masks manage anyway is to protect others from your sneezes, and the exhalation valve bypasses even that
2020-04-25T19:14:00 < bitmask> yea but thats not what im using
2020-04-25T19:15:09 < friendofafriend> jpa-: That's true of masks that have only makeshift filters.  It would not be true of breathing through P100 or something proper.
2020-04-25T19:15:46 < jpa-> friendofafriend: yeah, if you also manage a good seal against the face and exchange/bake the filter often enough
2020-04-25T19:15:54 < bitmask> I have a 1 micron polypro felt filter that I made electroplating anode bags with, should work decently well
2020-04-25T19:16:06 < bitmask> since n95 filters are made from the same type of thing
2020-04-25T19:16:16 < friendofafriend> You could likewise make the argument that it's abuse of supply to not use an exhalation valve, because less humidity extends the life of the filter by a lot.  Probably multiples.
2020-04-25T19:18:06 < jadew> jpa-, if you're altruistic, you can wear a surgical mask over the valve mask
2020-04-25T19:19:04 < jpa-> yeah
2020-04-25T19:19:30 < jpa-> fortunately finland's official policy is that masks are useless outside hospitals
2020-04-25T19:19:45 < jadew> they're mandatory here
2020-04-25T19:19:50 < jadew> because they are now available
2020-04-25T19:20:10 < Cracki> around here, you're forced to wear a scarf
2020-04-25T19:20:17 < Cracki> if you don't wear a scarf, you will be shot
2020-04-25T19:20:26 < jadew> right, you have to at least cover your mouth and nose if you're out
2020-04-25T19:20:49 < friendofafriend> You can't trust some country's official policy, they just crashed the world's economy over a cold.
2020-04-25T19:21:08 < jadew> and if you're wearing a valve mask, you're asked to sneeze up, so spreads evenly and equitably to everyone :P
2020-04-25T19:21:12 < Cracki> ye because people who cough like a donkey don't cover their mouth while they do it
2020-04-25T19:21:22 < Cracki> but aerosol will still pass through a scarf
2020-04-25T19:21:36 < Cracki> they call them "everyday/community" masks. single pieces of cloth
2020-04-25T19:21:38 < Thorn> a cold that causes strokes https://edition.cnn.com/2020/04/22/health/strokes-coronavirus-young-adults/index.html
2020-04-25T19:21:44 < Cracki> this is like fig leaves
2020-04-25T19:21:50 < friendofafriend> Right, and you're contaminating the outside of that simple cloth mask.
2020-04-25T19:22:17 < Cracki> or like saying bless you when someone sneezes, or asking your astrological sign
2020-04-25T19:22:19 < friendofafriend> Thorn: I saw them in concert.
2020-04-25T19:22:23 < jadew> I would rather have people stay in
2020-04-25T19:22:59 < friendofafriend> Right, but thankfully it's not you who decides.
2020-04-25T19:23:10 < jadew> too bad...
2020-04-25T19:23:29 < Cracki> btw, we had 70% men dying but that's now down to 55%. the women are catching up... because many of the susceptible men have died but the women haven't
2020-04-25T19:24:00 < jadew> I haven't checked the covid statistics in about a week
2020-04-25T19:24:17 < friendofafriend> Here in the US, they're in line with the seasonal flu.
2020-04-25T19:24:32 < jadew> friendofafriend, what's inline with the seasonal flu?
2020-04-25T19:24:39 < friendofafriend> The COVID death rates.
2020-04-25T19:24:43 < Thorn> Cracki so women simply take longer to die or what?
2020-04-25T19:24:55 < jadew> friendofafriend, lol, you still believe the just a flu thing?
2020-04-25T19:24:59 < Cracki> I guess so
2020-04-25T19:25:07 < friendofafriend> jadew: Shut down the economy harder for it.
2020-04-25T19:25:22 < jadew> friendofafriend, doesn't bother me, I work from home :D
2020-04-25T19:25:29 < Thorn> I remember they had a similarly lower %age of ICU admissions also
2020-04-25T19:25:38 < Thorn> so it would be strange
2020-04-25T19:25:57 < friendofafriend> jadew: I've been out quite a bit.  Apocalype not.
2020-04-25T19:26:32 < Cracki> "just a flu" is disingenious, flu kills a lot of people, so yes it's "just like the the flu"
2020-04-25T19:26:46 < friendofafriend> The flu kills about the same number of already sick people every year.
2020-04-25T19:26:50 < Cracki> still, it's like a flu, and nobody loses their wits over the flu
2020-04-25T19:27:41 < friendofafriend> Right, death rate in infected is something like .1%.  They're testing the sewers and finding the rate of infection is 20x.
2020-04-25T19:28:15 < friendofafriend> Twenty times the cases with the same number of deaths is a far less terrifying metric.
2020-04-25T19:28:15 < Thorn> friendofafriend I've never seen this because of a flu https://www.rbth.com/lifestyle/332012-moscow-ambulances-forming-traffic-jams
2020-04-25T19:28:16 < Cracki> hm well I wouldn't go that far. germany is testing like crazy so they are likely not underreporting, and from the 150k cases 5k have died
2020-04-25T19:28:20 < jadew> friendofafriend, so how do you explain the death rate on things like the Diamond Princess, where they had 100% test coverage?
2020-04-25T19:28:24 < jadew> you're being lied to
2020-04-25T19:28:28 < Cracki> but those 5k come from 70+ year olds
2020-04-25T19:28:40 < friendofafriend> jadew: Have you ever been on a cruise liner?
2020-04-25T19:29:00 < Cracki> diamond princess was a lot of old ppl
2020-04-25T19:29:13 < friendofafriend> They're absolutely filthy.
2020-04-25T19:29:15 < jadew> old or not, they had days left
2020-04-25T19:29:33 < friendofafriend> The people who cruise are not well.
2020-04-25T19:29:47 < jadew> bs
2020-04-25T19:29:49 < Cracki> if mostly young people died of this, it would be more tragic
2020-04-25T19:30:01 < friendofafriend> jadew: You haven't been on a cruise liner.
2020-04-25T19:30:28 < friendofafriend> They have problems with Legionnaires.  They're infection goldmine hot spots in spades.
2020-04-25T19:30:38 < Cracki> what's keeping them from keeping a cruise ship halfway clean?
2020-04-25T19:30:51 < friendofafriend> Storage, mainly.  They have to store waste.
2020-04-25T19:30:56 < Cracki> are they overworked? not enough bleach and hydrochloric acid for cleaning?
2020-04-25T19:31:06 < Cracki> eh, all of civilization stores waste
2020-04-25T19:31:08 < friendofafriend> It's a big floating city without utilities.
2020-04-25T19:31:37 < jadew> they're not dumping the shit in the water?
2020-04-25T19:31:53 < friendofafriend> You've got a water tank that can go contaminated.  They're storing dirty linens in the refridgerator, stuff like that.
2020-04-25T19:32:32 < Cracki> why, they can wash them
2020-04-25T19:32:36 < friendofafriend> In the fridge**, as it were.
2020-04-25T19:32:42 < friendofafriend> They do that stuff back in port, Cracki.
2020-04-25T19:32:43 < Cracki> or do they wash them every time they are docked somewhere
2020-04-25T19:32:44 < jadew> Cracki, so they don't have to store even more water
2020-04-25T19:32:44 < Cracki> hm
2020-04-25T19:32:57 < Cracki> sounds fun
2020-04-25T19:33:11 < Cracki> good, so everyone on that ship caught it, and how many died?
2020-04-25T19:33:15 < jadew> sounds like a petri dish
2020-04-25T19:33:29 < Cracki> chance of catching it is independent of chance of dying of it if you have it
2020-04-25T19:33:30 < jadew> Cracki, 700 cought it, more than 1% died
2020-04-25T19:33:41 < Cracki> the one percenters
2020-04-25T19:33:44 < friendofafriend> Right, but that goes right to the heart of the demographic numbers.
2020-04-25T19:34:08 < friendofafriend> The main draw for the cruises is all-you-can-eat buffets, cheap drinks.  It's for slobs.
2020-04-25T19:34:19 < jadew> hmm, I see the death rates are keeping steady
2020-04-25T19:34:34 < Cracki> ye death rates for under 60s are tiny, so the ~3% number in germany can only be explained by it killing all the old people
2020-04-25T19:34:47 < friendofafriend> You don't go there to do soy yoga and meditate on your prostate function.  You go there to get loaded and pass free food.
2020-04-25T19:35:15 < Cracki> teach me to meditate on my prostate function
2020-04-25T19:35:19 < Cracki> soudns fun
2020-04-25T19:35:35 < friendofafriend> In like a grapefruit, out like a grape.
2020-04-25T19:38:16 < friendofafriend> Floating retirement home with less medical care, is all I'm saying.  Really, look into it.
2020-04-25T19:38:54 < Thorn> 1..4Gbit WSON-8 https://www.gigadevice.com/products/memory/flash/spi-nand/
2020-04-25T19:39:17 < dongs> 132mhz seems to be the best i can do on 401re
2020-04-25T19:39:24 < dongs> i started decreasing PLL_M
2020-04-25T19:39:30 < dongs> but 14->13 it doesnt boot
2020-04-25T19:39:36 < dongs> im too lazy to see what the max pll values are
2020-04-25T19:39:50 < dongs> maybe its going over pll_vco limit or whatever
2020-04-25T19:39:51 < Thorn> I hope it's not for a product
2020-04-25T19:39:55 < dongs> nah
2020-04-25T19:39:59 < dongs> i am jsut generating mhz clock
2020-04-25T19:40:03 < dongs> literally just boot and setup mco
2020-04-25T19:41:08 < dongs> 136
2020-04-25T19:42:32 < dongs> hmm
2020-04-25T19:42:37 < dongs> cant seem to go below PLL_M of 10
2020-04-25T19:42:42 < dongs> leaving PLL_N at 336
2020-04-25T19:42:45 < dongs> and P at 4
2020-04-25T19:42:55 < dongs> P=3 = fail, M=9 = fail
2020-04-25T19:46:36 < Thorn> wat is this https://www.gigadevice.com/products/microcontrollers/gd32/arm-cortex-m23/
2020-04-25T19:46:51 < dongs> m23 core
2020-04-25T19:47:00 < Thorn> not a cloned stm32 family, is it?
2020-04-25T19:47:12 < Thorn> something original?
2020-04-25T19:47:18 < dongs> original ya
2020-04-25T19:48:06 < Cracki> I think ST is getting into the double digit cortexes too but GD deviates from the ST numbering. they have F103 but also F170, F190, F303 but also F350
2020-04-25T19:48:56 < Cracki> https://www.gigadevice.com/wp-content/uploads/2020/04/GigaDevice-Product-Selection-Guide.pdf
2020-04-25T19:52:03 < dongs> how do I lfsr
2020-04-25T19:53:20 < dongs> https://electronics.stackexchange.com/questions/30521/random-bit-sequence-using-verilog i found this but how do I actually make use of it
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2020-04-25T20:08:00 < Cracki> the always at posedge block run it. you'd read from the register.
2020-04-25T20:08:13 < Cracki> you could clock it on demand too
2020-04-25T20:08:34 < Cracki> you could use a wider register (and appropriate polynomial) for a longer period. their 5 bits have a period of 31
2020-04-25T20:11:14 < dongs> what is "appropriate polynomial"
2020-04-25T20:11:27 < Cracki> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Linear-feedback_shift_register#Some_polynomials_for_maximal_LFSRs
2020-04-25T20:11:50 < Thorn> just don't gate the clock, wrap it in if (enable) if you want to start/stop it
2020-04-25T20:11:54 < Cracki> this math stuff translatest directly into reg[???] ^ reg[???] ^... sequences
2020-04-25T20:12:14 < dongs> what value do i start it with?
2020-04-25T20:12:24 < Cracki> anything but 0, 0 makes it stuck
2020-04-25T20:12:26 < dongs> cuz 0^0 is always 0
2020-04-25T20:13:02 < dongs> how do i use it tho. i want to assign some 8 bit reg based on this  shit
2020-04-25T20:13:09 < Cracki> you can seed it with some fixed value, or if you have some hardware randomness source, use that somehow
2020-04-25T20:13:31 < dongs> wait i get it.
2020-04-25T20:13:46 < Cracki> assuming the shift reg is wide enough, just take the lowest 8 bits
2020-04-25T20:16:13 < dongs> so for 7 bits it does d <= { d[5:0], d[6] ^ d[5] }; thats 6,5 from teh xilinx table. so for 8bit i do d <= { d[6:0], d[7] ^ d[6] }; ?
2020-04-25T20:16:26 < Cracki> when wikipedia says polynomial "x^5 + x^3 + 1", that means bits 5 3 and 0 (x^0=1) are set, i.e. 101001
2020-04-25T20:17:14 < Cracki> the shift part is right, but the  d[6] ^ d[5] may not always be 6,5 or 7,6 or adjacent numbers
2020-04-25T20:17:23 < Cracki> it's the polynomial
2020-04-25T20:17:28 < dongs> well xilinx appnote says it is
2020-04-25T20:17:30 < dongs> 7 7,6
2020-04-25T20:17:34 < dongs> https://www.xilinx.com/support/documentation/application_notes/xapp052.pdf
2020-04-25T20:17:49 < Cracki> then that it is
2020-04-25T20:18:17 < dongs> lemme try simming this shit
2020-04-25T20:18:51 < dongs> https://i.imgur.com/aHkxBgd.png
2020-04-25T20:18:53 < dongs> looks allright
2020-04-25T20:18:56 < dongs> random enough for me
2020-04-25T20:22:37 < Cracki> eh, the +1 isn't a tap, so disregard my nonsense there
2020-04-25T20:23:45 < dongs> lfsr <= { lfsr[6:0], lfsr[7] ^ lfsr[6] } so what would this be in C
2020-04-25T20:24:22 < dongs> reg = reg << 2 | reg[7] ^ reg[6] ? (the [] is obviously shift/mask
2020-04-25T20:24:25 < Cracki> uh, #define BITNUM(x, p) ((x >> p) & 1)
2020-04-25T20:24:34 < Cracki> if uint8_t lfsr;
2020-04-25T20:24:59 < Cracki> lfsr = (lfsr << 1) | (BITNUM(lfsr, 7) ^ BITNUM(lfsr, 6))
2020-04-25T20:25:13 < dongs> oh, right lol not << 2 s hift
2020-04-25T20:25:21 < Cracki> I don't bother masking off the bits on the high side because they aren't read anyway
2020-04-25T20:25:45 < Cracki> and since I don't know the order of | and ^ I'd just parenthesize them
2020-04-25T20:28:51 < Cracki> hmm the &1 can be pulled outside. wikipedia has an expression:
2020-04-25T20:29:29 < Cracki> bit = ((lfsr >> 7) ^ (lfsr >> 6)) & 1; lfsr = (lfsr << 1) | bit;
2020-04-25T20:32:50 < dongs> that looks nicer
2020-04-25T20:35:31 < dongs> wtf
2020-04-25T20:36:26 < dongs> http://bcas.tv/paste/results/wSfHyz84.html this output is diferent from what im getting from fpga
2020-04-25T20:37:02 < Cracki> different how?
2020-04-25T20:37:24 < emeb> dongs: here's a 16-bit noise gen I did a while back: https://github.com/emeb/up5k_vga/blob/master/src/snd.v#L106
2020-04-25T20:37:45 < dongs> Cracki: as in compeltely different sequence lol
2020-04-25T20:37:50 < Cracki> heh
2020-04-25T20:38:58 < emeb> 20-bit lfsr gens 16 new bits PRN every time it's update
2020-04-25T20:39:42 < dongs> https://i.imgur.com/gXiqbji.png
2020-04-25T20:39:49 < dongs> thats after 4 bytes
2020-04-25T20:39:55 < dongs> i dont even get that pattern anywhere in C
2020-04-25T20:39:56 < dongs> hmm
2020-04-25T20:40:16 < dongs> oh fuck
2020-04-25T20:40:18 < dongs> i know why
2020-04-25T20:40:21 < Cracki> that pattern doesn't look like it's shifting through properly
2020-04-25T20:41:43 < dongs> oh damn no theres more issues
2020-04-25T20:41:48 < dongs> its shifting at 8x speed
2020-04-25T20:41:56 < Cracki> 0x47, 0x8f, 0x11f, 0x23e, 0x47c (disregard top bits) is what I get
2020-04-25T20:42:09 < dongs> yeah i fucked up, its not in the divided clock area
2020-04-25T20:43:59 < dongs> https://i.imgur.com/TxqXrqC.png
2020-04-25T20:44:07 < dongs> thats better
2020-04-25T20:44:25 < Cracki> indeed, those were every eighth correct register
2020-04-25T20:45:14 < dongs> time to rebuild and try
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2020-04-25T21:07:59 < dongs> and it works
2020-04-25T21:08:33 < dongs> damn .zip is brutal to this data
2020-04-25T21:08:42 < dongs> compresse down 161meg capture to 4megs
2020-04-25T21:09:00 < dongs> emeb is there something better than this that generates really dispersed bits
2020-04-25T21:09:22 < dongs> im trying to track down if this shit i have is signal integrity issues or something else
2020-04-25T21:09:44 < dongs> it works on sequential pattern and this 8bit lfsr
2020-04-25T21:09:50 < dongs> but fails on real data
2020-04-25T21:10:20 < dongs> and real data = ~noise
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2020-04-25T21:20:19 < Thorn> if (samples == 0) NRF_BREAKPOINT;  // equivalent to debugger; in javascript lol
2020-04-25T21:21:15 < emeb> dongs: what are you trying to do - big picture. I haven't been following...
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2020-04-25T21:24:32 < emeb> if you're trying to generate more zeros than ones you should be able to do some logical ops on the lfsr.
2020-04-25T21:25:10 < emeb> output logical AND of the bottom N bits to reduce probability of a 1
2020-04-25T21:25:42 < emeb> 2 bits -> 25%, 3 bits -> 12.5%, etc.
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2020-04-25T21:32:15 < zyp> heh, playing around with jlcpcb's price calculator, somehow ENIG costs more for 2L than 4L
2020-04-25T21:32:28 < zyp> $16 for 2L, $14.5 for 4L
2020-04-25T21:32:59 < zyp> also a 50x50mm board is $13 before surface finish
2020-04-25T21:33:41 < zyp> 4L I mean
2020-04-25T21:33:45 < zyp> that's pretty cheap 4L
2020-04-25T21:34:55 < emeb> they're cheap  that's for sure
2020-04-25T21:35:14 < emeb> quality of pcb, copper, mask has been good though.
2020-04-25T21:35:21 < emeb> sometimes the silk isn't great tho
2020-04-25T21:36:23 < qyx> stm32l051c8t6
2020-04-25T21:36:33 < qyx> sampling 3 analog inputs, 0, 1 and 3
2020-04-25T21:36:42 < qyx> 0 is ok, 1 and 3 are stuck at 0
2020-04-25T21:37:21 < qyx> gpio config is the same
2020-04-25T21:37:32 < zyp> I don't really care about the silk, I just wanna do a prototype of the usb tap stuff
2020-04-25T21:38:14 < emeb> if your board isn't rectangular outline w/ no cutouts then they tack on an "Engineering Charge" that bumps the cost a bit more.
2020-04-25T21:38:34 < zyp> ah, well, it will be
2020-04-25T21:38:53 < emeb> I had some boards used for front panels w/ cutout for LCD/OLED and the charge was ~$4-5
2020-04-25T21:39:13 < dongs> emeb: nothing in particular. got some stuff that fails, i wanna generate some really "random" data packets to see if its caused by signal integrity or something else
2020-04-25T21:39:31 < dongs> lfsr seems not random enough, it deosnt fail with it so far :p
2020-04-25T21:40:03 < emeb> or perhaps "too random" - sometimes stuff fails because there aren't enough transitions.
2020-04-25T21:40:22 < dongs> well, i did a ++ counter fill before
2020-04-25T21:40:27 < dongs> that didtn fail either
2020-04-25T21:40:58 < zyp> hmm
2020-04-25T21:41:13 < zyp> are there any stm32s with more than two UCPD periphs?
2020-04-25T21:42:20 < Cracki> wider register, gives longer period of output. maybe 255 wasn't enough
2020-04-25T21:42:36 < dongs> cracki, im limited to 188byte packets before i haev to restart
2020-04-25T21:42:50 < emeb> sounds like transport stream
2020-04-25T21:43:00 < Cracki> hmm can you record a real-input session that fails?
2020-04-25T21:43:21  * emeb has flashbacks to his days of doing DVB modems...
2020-04-25T21:43:26 < Cracki> ATM also has 188 byte packets
2020-04-25T21:43:31 < Cracki> antique network
2020-04-25T21:47:33 < emeb> very
2020-04-25T21:47:35 < Ultrasauce> dongs are you rolling your own asi shit
2020-04-25T21:47:52 < dongs> nah i did that like 10 years ago
2020-04-25T21:47:54 < dongs> jsut fucking around
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2020-04-25T22:12:16 < Thorn> Kim is dead
2020-04-25T22:12:25 < dongs> link
2020-04-25T22:13:19 < Thorn> https://nypost.com/2020/04/25/north-korean-dictator-kim-jong-un-rumored-to-be-dead/
2020-04-25T22:13:27 < mawk> it says rumored
2020-04-25T22:13:31 < mawk> but there have been rumors for a few days
2020-04-25T22:13:53 < Cracki> dancing basketball americans will carry his coffin
2020-04-25T22:13:57 < mawk> lol
2020-04-25T22:15:27 < Cracki> how old is the pooh anyway
2020-04-25T22:15:39 < Cracki> 36!
2020-04-25T22:16:10 < Thorn> russian telegram channels say NK TV is broadcasting something like a tribute montage with funeral music
2020-04-25T22:16:29 < Cracki> >because the surgeon’s hands were shaking so badly.
2020-04-25T22:16:39 < Cracki> that tends to happen when you hold them at gun point
2020-04-25T22:36:52 < jadew> if that guy dies, we have the new china
2020-04-25T22:37:55 < jadew> dirt cheap labor, eager to join the rest of the world into (what seems to them like) the sci-fi future
2020-04-25T22:38:14 < Cracki> who knows, maybe they'll liberate us
2020-04-25T22:39:40 < Steffanx> lol no, there is the sister who wants to take over for sure.
2020-04-25T22:39:58 < jadew> SK?
2020-04-25T22:40:02 < Thorn> the regime knows better than to lose the grip
2020-04-25T22:40:03 < Cracki> nk
2020-04-25T22:40:20 < Cracki> https://www.thedailybeast.com/kim-yo-jong-kim-jong-uns-kid-sister-cuts-loose
2020-04-25T22:40:39 < Cracki> has a face like https://i.imgflip.com/3i9s2g.png
2020-04-25T22:42:15 < jadew> what happened to the surgeon?
2020-04-25T22:42:43 < Cracki> we will never know
2020-04-25T22:43:10 < jadew> maybe he figured "why not?"
2020-04-25T22:43:19 < jadew> saw his chance and faked a shaking
2020-04-25T22:44:40 < jadew> do they have universal basic income in NK?
2020-04-25T22:46:40 < Thorn> $2 / month
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2020-04-25T22:48:53 < Cracki> pah money
2020-04-25T22:49:08 < Cracki> they get goods
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2020-04-25T23:27:02 < strata> for $2/mo, the NK citizens are required to cut grass with scissors or the leader will have them killed.
2020-04-25T23:27:14 < strata> what strings will be attached to your UBI?
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2020-04-25T23:43:14 < Cracki> "So happy we weren't racist in February of 2020" https://pbs.twimg.com/media/EWUpA30XYAYVL_f.jpg:orig
2020-04-25T23:43:42 < Cracki> ubi fine print: pledge allegiance to a foreign nation
2020-04-25T23:47:01 < mawk> the ratio of lines to footnotes is 6:40 in my Gödel book
2020-04-25T23:47:20 < Cracki> footnotes must have footnotes or they aren't worth reading
2020-04-25T23:47:23 < mawk> to explain each terms
2020-04-25T23:47:56 < Cracki> 30% wide column in the middle, a 50% column beside it in finer print to explain things
2020-04-25T23:48:37 < Cracki> GOD i fucking hate normies and how they distribute changes to texts. "in line x, strike this, in line y, insert that before that"
2020-04-25T23:49:11 < Cracki> torture normies until they use git for text and produce side by side diffs with colored intra-line differences
2020-04-25T23:52:00 < mawk> lol
2020-04-25T23:52:01 < mawk> yeah
2020-04-25T23:52:30 < Cracki> fuck man I will handhold whatever normie and find all the most userfriendly programs but this must happen
2020-04-25T23:55:12 < Cracki> bongs! explain this shit! https://pbs.twimg.com/media/EWd93eeX0AIgL0H.jpg:orig
2020-04-25T23:55:41 < Cracki> did you switch with saudi arabia or something
2020-04-25T23:56:12 < Cracki> I expect public lashing whipping and stoning within the next 5 years
2020-04-25T23:56:45 < mawk> "Humza Yousaf" lol
2020-04-25T23:56:51 < mawk> scotland minister
2020-04-25T23:57:21 < mawk> in france we had a "rama yade" minister of justice, but she was a right-wing pro french or something
2020-04-25T23:57:24 < mawk> from the guard of Sarközy
2020-04-25T23:59:23 < Cracki> Leitkultur is when you make the invaders kick each other out
--- Day changed Sun Apr 26 2020
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2020-04-26T00:16:03 < Steffanx> I'm gonna kick mawk out. Such French invader
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2020-04-26T00:43:41 < mawk> Steffanx :'(
2020-04-26T00:43:47 < Steffanx> Hah
2020-04-26T00:43:57 < Cracki> I determine ingroup/outgroup by the color of the foreskin
2020-04-26T00:44:10 < mawk> lol
2020-04-26T00:44:16 < mawk> by the presence of a foreskin
2020-04-26T00:44:33 < Cracki> well that to some extent too
2020-04-26T00:44:49 < Cracki> lots of white presenting individuals aren't really white when you look at their pp
2020-04-26T00:45:01 < Cracki> they're "white passing" to borrow a woke term
2020-04-26T00:45:41 < Steffanx> -_-
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2020-04-26T00:51:48 < catphish> question: why the fuck is u8"string" a signed type?
2020-04-26T00:52:10 < zyp> who says it is?
2020-04-26T00:53:09 < catphish> my compiler
2020-04-26T00:53:22 < zyp> can you elaborate?
2020-04-26T00:53:31 < catphish> https://paste.ubuntu.com/p/4BGpmdNy6M/
2020-04-26T00:54:27 < zyp> ah, because it's a string literal and string literals are const char[]
2020-04-26T00:54:54 < mawk> it's not the string itself that is signed or not
2020-04-26T00:54:56 < catphish> i thought the point of those prefixes like u8 was to change the type of a literal
2020-04-26T00:55:21 < mawk> yes me too
2020-04-26T00:55:25 < karlp> where did you get those prefixes from?
2020-04-26T00:55:27 < qyx> (uint8_t []){0xff, 0xff, 0xff, 0xff} is bad?
2020-04-26T00:55:28 < mawk> but maybe u8 is invalid
2020-04-26T00:55:37 < zyp> karlp, C++11
2020-04-26T00:55:52 < qyx> oh living in the future
2020-04-26T00:56:23 < zyp> C++20 will change it to char8_t, but that's still a signed type
2020-04-26T00:56:27 < mawk> but you're not doing C++ catphish ?
2020-04-26T00:56:30 < mawk> you're doing C
2020-04-26T00:56:34 < catphish> qyx: your version works fine
2020-04-26T00:56:44 < catphish> plain c
2020-04-26T00:56:58 < catphish> it just seemed odd that gcc accepted it, but seemingly ignored it
2020-04-26T00:57:06 < mawk> yeah
2020-04-26T00:57:12 < karlp> just allwed you to cast it again surely?Ð
2020-04-26T00:57:18 < mawk> well anyway as zyp says it's not even unsigned, for that prefix
2020-04-26T00:57:23 < zyp> and I guess the reason it's like that is because strings have always been signed char, and it's inconvenient to change it now
2020-04-26T00:57:34 < mawk> what do you mean zyp ?
2020-04-26T00:57:36 < mawk> string are plain char
2020-04-26T00:57:40 < mawk> it's three different types
2020-04-26T00:57:44 < zyp> ah
2020-04-26T00:57:47 < mawk> char, unsigned char, signed char
2020-04-26T00:57:53 < zyp> C11 also got the same unicode prefixes that C++11 introduced
2020-04-26T00:58:00 < zyp> so it's valid C as well as C++
2020-04-26T00:58:14 < mawk> then it's a compiler flag to say if char is signed or unsigned, the default depends on the platform
2020-04-26T00:58:20 < zyp> yes
2020-04-26T00:58:24 < qyx> is u8 actually an unsigned prefix?
2020-04-26T00:58:27 < mawk> no
2020-04-26T00:58:27 < zyp> no
2020-04-26T00:58:29 < qyx> isn't it unicode?
2020-04-26T00:58:34 < mawk> yes
2020-04-26T00:58:34 < catphish> oh okay
2020-04-26T00:58:36 < zyp> u8 indicates utf-8
2020-04-26T00:58:45 < zyp> there's also utf-16 and utf-32 prefixes
2020-04-26T00:58:50 < catphish> well that explains that
2020-04-26T00:58:57 < mawk> u8 is const char [], and const char8_t[] in later C++ editions
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2020-04-26T00:59:06 < catphish> thanks
2020-04-26T00:59:09 < catphish> just confused me
2020-04-26T00:59:18 < zyp> well, yeah
2020-04-26T00:59:34 < zyp> strings being signed has always been dumb, but that's how it is
2020-04-26T00:59:39 < catphish> i saw u8 and made assumption
2020-04-26T00:59:46 < mawk> on some platforms it's unsigned, I don't remember which
2020-04-26T01:00:03 < karlp> zyp: is it not "strings are chars, chars are maybe signed, maybe not" ?
2020-04-26T01:00:06 < zyp> mawk, haven't encountered any, but you can give gcc -funsigned-char
2020-04-26T01:00:06 < mawk> when I made an "os" I made it unsigned
2020-04-26T01:00:10 < mawk> yeah
2020-04-26T01:00:12 < mawk> using that flag
2020-04-26T01:00:12 < qyx> so I have this https://i.imgur.com/3Y709jD.png, I cannot measure anything using ADC
2020-04-26T01:00:17 < mawk> I think android is unsigned
2020-04-26T01:00:23 < mawk> iirc
2020-04-26T01:00:31 < zyp> hmm, I don't remember that
2020-04-26T01:01:00 < mawk> yes karlp indeed
2020-04-26T01:01:04 < zyp> looks like that's true for the NDK, yes
2020-04-26T01:01:08 < mawk> and it's a different type from both signed char and unsigned char
2020-04-26T01:01:27 < zyp> hmm
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2020-04-26T01:02:22 < zyp> what usb-c connector to choose for usb3? dongs mentioned R-S13KG-03 before, but I'm not sure I like the half pth half smt stuff
2020-04-26T01:02:51 < mawk> you think full pth is better then ?
2020-04-26T01:02:58 < mawk> if you want it to be sturdy
2020-04-26T01:03:30 < zyp> no, I was thinking full smt
2020-04-26T01:03:37 < mawk> hmm
2020-04-26T01:03:44 < mawk> with big fat attach pads then
2020-04-26T01:04:06 < zyp> ah, no, I'm not talking about mechanical tabs, they should be pth
2020-04-26T01:04:12 < zyp> I'm talking about the signal pins
2020-04-26T01:04:12 < mawk> ah ok
2020-04-26T01:07:27 < Cracki> doesn't u8 stand for utf8? https://en.cppreference.com/w/cpp/language/string_literal
2020-04-26T01:07:41 < zyp> yes, as everybody said already
2020-04-26T01:07:48 < Cracki> ah you figured it out :D
2020-04-26T01:07:58 < karlp> Cracki: where did you get this idea that atm was 188 bytes?
2020-04-26T01:08:12 < Steffanx> Not everybody...
2020-04-26T01:09:08 < Steffanx> What's wrong with the half ptf half smd mr zyp?
2020-04-26T01:09:21 < Steffanx> Or is it just "I don't like"
2020-04-26T01:11:26 < zyp> seems inconvenient to route
2020-04-26T01:15:08 < zyp> hmm, maybe not
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2020-04-26T01:33:49 < Spirit532> new faces, same question
2020-04-26T01:34:27 < Spirit532> CubeMX generates USB code for the G431 that results in "device descriptor request failed"
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2020-04-26T01:34:59 < Spirit532> nothing on D+/D- except a clamping ESD protector(above 5V), heap and stack both 1000
2020-04-26T01:35:39 < Spirit532> CRS is enabled in the RCC section, default parameters
2020-04-26T01:35:47 < Spirit532> VBus sensing doesn't exist on the chip
2020-04-26T01:35:58 < Spirit532> any ideas?
2020-04-26T01:36:15 < qyx> re: solenoid core position detection https://i.imgur.com/ND8RWm6.png, the red line is when the core is manually pushed inside
2020-04-26T01:36:18 < qyx> zyp: ^
2020-04-26T01:36:38 < qyx> x is time, y is currentconsumption
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2020-04-26T08:25:45 < dongs> https://electronics.stackexchange.com/questions/413309/switch-from-jtag-to-swd-with-bitbang-sequence-on-stm32f103vb what the fuck is this guyt actually trying to do
2020-04-26T08:25:59 < dongs> is he not aware of the code to switch from jtag to swj or wahtever mode
2020-04-26T08:26:03 < dongs> by writing to rcc regs
2020-04-26T08:27:32 < dongs> wait no, he mentions teh GPIO_PinRemapConfig shit
2020-04-26T08:27:34 < dongs> then im completely lost
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2020-04-26T10:10:42 < PaulFertser> I think his idea is to use SWO as kinda additional write-only UART
2020-04-26T10:11:50 < dongs> and?
2020-04-26T10:11:58 < PaulFertser> Without debugger
2020-04-26T10:12:08 < PaulFertser> And default state is JTAG so SWO pin is not outputting any data.
2020-04-26T10:12:10 < dongs> and why would you need a debugger for that?
2020-04-26T10:12:16 < PaulFertser> To switch to SWD.
2020-04-26T10:12:17 < dongs> uh yeah, and you can change that from code
2020-04-26T10:12:20 < dongs> which he obviosuly has control over
2020-04-26T10:13:14 < PaulFertser> You can change pinmuxing from the code. But here he deals with ARM SWJ status or whatever that additional special block is called that understand both JTAG and SWD and used to control DAP.
2020-04-26T10:13:46 < dongs> i dont see how its relevant
2020-04-26T10:13:54 < dongs> you disable jtag from code using that remap config thing
2020-04-26T10:14:02 < dongs> then you do wahtever teh fuck you want with dap to output shit to swo
2020-04-26T10:14:19 < PaulFertser> Apparently that's not enough.
2020-04-26T10:14:23 < dongs> for sure it is
2020-04-26T10:14:27 < dongs> i have used swo on F103 countless times
2020-04-26T10:14:30 < dongs> in thsi eaxct method
2020-04-26T10:14:40 < PaulFertser> Without debugger? So you just power your ch
2020-04-26T10:14:49 < PaulFertser> your MCU and it starts emitting data on SWO?
2020-04-26T10:15:23 < PaulFertser> How were you capturing the SWO data?
2020-04-26T10:16:11 < dongs> idk i mean, i ahjve ITM_WriteChar or wahtever shti, no i never looked if its alive without debugger connected
2020-04-26T10:16:18 < dongs> cuz whe nI dont have debugger connected i dont care about SWO output
2020-04-26T10:17:30 < PaulFertser> dongs: but that SO question is about without debugger usecase.
2020-04-26T10:17:43 < PaulFertser> http://infocenter.arm.com/help/topic/com.arm.doc.ddi0314h/Chdiaihc.html <- doesn't say anything about switching from the inside.
2020-04-26T10:20:51 < dongs> isnt that waht pinremap does already?
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2020-04-26T14:55:46 < zyp> dongs, what's the footprint for that R-S13KG-03 thing?
2020-04-26T14:56:27 < zyp> apparently there's a bunch of similar looking half smt/half pth footprints that differs a bit in where the mechanical tabs go
2020-04-26T14:56:39 < zyp> and I don't wanna get it wrong
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2020-04-26T17:31:35 < mawk> I named a variable fdsfd Steffanx 
2020-04-26T17:31:40 < mawk> where is my bounty
2020-04-26T17:50:36 < strata> i created a class named TheAllPowerfulMawk
2020-04-26T18:01:10 < Steffanx> What if its a proper for the fsd file mawk?
2020-04-26T18:01:23 < Steffanx> proper fd*
2020-04-26T18:02:54 < mawk> yes Steffanx 
2020-04-26T18:03:00 < mawk> it's a fd for the directories of fds
2020-04-26T18:03:02 < mawk> so, fdsfd
2020-04-26T18:03:09 < mawk> int fdsfd = open("/proc/self/fd", O_DIRECTORY);
2020-04-26T18:04:15 < Steffanx> :)
2020-04-26T18:05:33 < Steffanx> lol, my phone autocorrected the shit of out if. "What if its a proper fd for the sfd file?"
2020-04-26T18:08:57 < onio_> Is it possible to use Arm event recorder in STM32CubeIde?
2020-04-26T18:20:49 < catphish> this is infuriating, DHCP servers address their replies to the IP address they're offering to a client
2020-04-26T18:21:14 < catphish> so, the client has to accept IP packets for all IPs until an address is assigned
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2020-04-26T18:23:49 < catphish> easy fix i guess, it's just odd
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2020-04-26T18:28:19 < mawk> indeed
2020-04-26T18:28:45 < Steffanx> dont you like odd?
2020-04-26T18:28:54 < catphish> i'm actually not sure how to fix it
2020-04-26T18:29:03 < mawk> just listen on all addresses
2020-04-26T18:29:05 < mawk> you don't fix it
2020-04-26T18:29:21 < catphish> my IP stack discards any packets not addressed to it before passing them to the UDP layer
2020-04-26T18:29:26 < mawk> for ipv4 you can use a raw socket
2020-04-26T18:29:28 < mawk> ah
2020-04-26T18:29:32 < mawk> it's not linux
2020-04-26T18:29:35 < mawk> well fix that
2020-04-26T18:29:45 < mawk> add some socket flag for listening on all addresses
2020-04-26T18:29:46 < catphish> no, though i'd be interested to know how linux tackles it
2020-04-26T18:29:59 < mawk> using a raw socket or a packet socket most likely
2020-04-26T18:30:03 < mawk> I'm downloading dhclient's code to see
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2020-04-26T18:31:42 < mawk> yes looks like i
2020-04-26T18:31:44 < mawk> t
2020-04-26T18:32:25 < catphish> i think for me the simplest solution will be to just accept all packets at the IP layer, and add a flag indicating whether it was addressed to me or not, higher layers can decide what to do with that information
2020-04-26T18:33:09 < catphish> mawk: a raw socket? does that mean dhclient has its very own ip/udp stack?
2020-04-26T18:33:13 < mawk> linux's dhclient uses raw socket
2020-04-26T18:33:20 < mawk> yes*
2020-04-26T18:33:30 < mawk> there is a copy of the BSD stack in it
2020-04-26T18:33:37 < catphish> well okay then
2020-04-26T18:33:59 < catphish> thanks
2020-04-26T18:34:21 < catphish> i think i prefer my proposed way for now though rather then writing 2 IP stacks :)
2020-04-26T18:36:15 < mawk> lol
2020-04-26T18:36:26 < mawk> a udp stack isn't that complicated
2020-04-26T18:36:29 < mawk> good thing it's not TCP
2020-04-26T18:36:37 < mawk> but anyway they just copy-pasted the BSD stack
2020-04-26T18:36:43 < mawk> and they use BPF filters for easier processing
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2020-04-26T18:36:53 < mawk> to offload some stuff I guess
2020-04-26T18:36:55 < mawk> like matching on DHCP packets
2020-04-26T18:51:08 < karlp> catphish: if you're writing your own dhcp client, make sure you read the rfc instead of just assuming it will always be like the one you're testing against.
2020-04-26T18:57:39 < mawk> Cracki: in french we have words with a umlaut on the finale E
2020-04-26T18:57:46 < mawk> no-one gets it right
2020-04-26T18:57:52 < mawk> ambiguë, aiguë
2020-04-26T18:58:13 < mawk> (they removed it in the orthographical simplification of 1990, so immigrants can integrate better and french is easier to learn)
2020-04-26T18:58:19 < Cracki> how does it sound, does it differ from é?
2020-04-26T18:58:24 < Cracki> lol
2020-04-26T18:58:27 < Cracki> löl*
2020-04-26T18:58:28 < mawk> it doesn't sound at all
2020-04-26T18:58:37 < mawk> you don't pronounce it, be it a final ë or a final e
2020-04-26T18:58:40 < Cracki> ic
2020-04-26T18:59:02 < Cracki> so it's like ambigu~, aigu~
2020-04-26T18:59:04 < mawk> yeah
2020-04-26T18:59:21 < mawk> I suspect this comes from the wave of greekization of the french language during the renaissance and all that, when scholars rediscovered the antique greece
2020-04-26T18:59:26 < mawk> they started to replace f -> ph and so on
2020-04-26T18:59:39 < mawk> they did that for no reason at all, reportedly
2020-04-26T18:59:41 < mawk> just to sound intelligent
2020-04-26T18:59:45 < mawk> or so linguists say
2020-04-26T19:00:34 < Cracki> german language gets butchered too. we have Aufwand (effort/expenditure), the verb is aufwenden ("turn up", to expend), but since people demand it be derived from Aufwand ("up the wall"), now you can write "aufwänden" which is WRONG
2020-04-26T19:00:56 < Cracki> the purpose of language is ingroup comms + outgroup discernment
2020-04-26T19:01:24 < Cracki> simplifying language makes it more inclusive, which is why we have "hochdeutsch" on top of local dialects that are sometimes unintelligible
2020-04-26T19:01:29 < mawk> yeah
2020-04-26T19:01:38 < mawk> we have german dialects in north-west of france
2020-04-26T19:01:43 < mawk> but they got exterminated after WWII
2020-04-26T19:01:47 < Cracki> lol
2020-04-26T19:01:47 < mawk> because people thought it was german
2020-04-26T19:02:06 < mawk> they call it prat
2020-04-26T19:02:08 < BrainDamage> we have few abuses in italian too, "a me mi", which gets translated to "to me, to me"
2020-04-26T19:02:10 < Cracki> uproot (eradicate) those poor frenchies that spoke the wrong way
2020-04-26T19:02:12 < mawk> which I believe means "talk"
2020-04-26T19:02:20 < mawk> or pratt maybe
2020-04-26T19:02:38 < BrainDamage> we have french and german dialects too
2020-04-26T19:02:43 < Cracki> sounds like "prattle"
2020-04-26T19:02:45 < mawk> like catalans
2020-04-26T19:02:54 < mawk> in dutch praten is to talk, so I guess it has german roots too
2020-04-26T19:03:01 < BrainDamage> they are unintelligigible from italian, but so are most dialects here
2020-04-26T19:03:03 < Cracki> braten, roast
2020-04-26T19:03:32 < mawk> the bask dialect is weird
2020-04-26T19:03:37 < mawk> with x everywhere
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2020-04-26T19:03:57 < Cracki> wxmyn
2020-04-26T19:03:59 < mawk> but heh we still have bask independantist terrorists, their language lives
2020-04-26T19:04:13 < mawk> like the ones from corsica with all their mafia and anti-mainland france sentiment
2020-04-26T19:04:13 < Cracki> basks, preserve your heritage
2020-04-26T19:04:32 < mawk> they even have their local parliament, no other region has that
2020-04-26T19:04:42 < mawk> except the old colonial territories like polynesia
2020-04-26T19:06:35 < mawk> they were the ones that ran the "french connection" drug scheme
2020-04-26T19:06:59 < mawk> reportedly with some help by the french secret service that used the drug money as founding for the indochina war
2020-04-26T19:07:02 < mawk> was would become later vietnam
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2020-04-26T19:08:04 < mawk> or slightly before the war, when they were trying to make the rebellion lose
2020-04-26T19:09:34 < Thorn> https://arxiv.org/pdf/1906.00367.pdf
2020-04-26T19:09:46 < Cracki> catphish, were you talking about the dhcpoffer message? it has the client's mac address so you know it's meant for you
2020-04-26T19:09:53 < mawk> yes Cracki 
2020-04-26T19:09:57 < mawk> but he means his ip stack didn't plan for this
2020-04-26T19:10:01 < Cracki> ah
2020-04-26T19:10:04 < mawk> the mac is right, but the dst ip is unknown
2020-04-26T19:10:05 < mawk> so it's dropped
2020-04-26T19:10:13 < mawk> like on linux, so on linux you need your own little ip stack
2020-04-26T19:10:24 < Cracki> dhcp should sit beside IP
2020-04-26T19:10:27 < mawk> but linux helps you a lot, you don't have to write your ethernet stack (as contrary as for ipv6 where you have to)
2020-04-26T19:10:31 < Cracki> it sits on top of ethernet
2020-04-26T19:10:37 < Cracki> ic
2020-04-26T19:10:41 < mawk> yeah, but you have to use a raw/packet socket
2020-04-26T19:10:47 < mawk> because when you request a lease you don't have the ip yet
2020-04-26T19:10:53 < mawk> so you have to snoop on the network
2020-04-26T19:11:11 < Cracki> why snoop, you get the response addressed to your mac
2020-04-26T19:11:18 < mawk> hmm no nevermind, it's not that
2020-04-26T19:11:27 < mawk> for ipv4 you don't have to write your own ipv4 stack, linux helps you
2020-04-26T19:11:31 < Cracki> ye
2020-04-26T19:11:34 < mawk> but for ipv6 you have to write your own ipv6 stack
2020-04-26T19:11:44 < mawk> but yeah you have to do your own UDP parsing anyway
2020-04-26T19:11:55 < Cracki> eh, IPv4 for some local thingy seems good enough
2020-04-26T19:12:25 < mawk> snoop because to receive an udp response you need to listen on a specific address
2020-04-26T19:12:29 < mawk> and you don't have any
2020-04-26T19:12:37 < mawk> so you need to look at *all* the ipv4 packets coming through, and select the dhcp ones
2020-04-26T19:12:55 < mawk> linux's dhclient uses BPF filtering to help offload that
2020-04-26T19:13:16 < Cracki> the dhcp response I consider dhcp, not IP or UDP. it coincidentally contains IP+UDP headers
2020-04-26T19:13:33 < mawk> yeah
2020-04-26T19:16:25 < Cracki> if wikipedia is to be believed, the request, offer, and even the PREquest contain broadcast or 0.0.0.0 IPs
2020-04-26T19:16:39 < Cracki> (even the ack)
2020-04-26T19:16:51 < mawk> not the offer
2020-04-26T19:16:55 < mawk> or maybe you need a special mode, dunno
2020-04-26T19:16:59 < mawk> but I tried using tcpdump
2020-04-26T19:17:22 < Cracki> the offered ip is inside the dhcp payload, the ip packet is to broadcast
2020-04-26T19:17:24 < mawk> the request is broadcast, the offer is directed to your ip
2020-04-26T19:17:31 < mawk> 17:28:02.965813 IP 0.0.0.0.bootpc > 255.255.255.255.bootps: BOOTP/DHCP, Request from 04:ed:33:e5:ab:eb (oui Unknown), length 300
2020-04-26T19:17:33 < mawk> 17:28:02.997246 IP _gateway.bootps > laptop.bootpc: BOOTP/DHCP, Reply, length 548
2020-04-26T19:17:40 < Cracki> then you and wikipedia disagree
2020-04-26T19:17:43 < mawk> maybe this is a special situation for me since the last lease is not released or something
2020-04-26T19:17:50 < mawk> or a special flag 
2020-04-26T19:18:19 < Cracki> is that a lease renewal or some other case it could optimize?
2020-04-26T19:18:24 < mawk> maybe
2020-04-26T19:18:28 < mawk> but I released the old one before
2020-04-26T19:18:35 < mawk> maybe the dhcp server is too smart, or too dumb
2020-04-26T19:18:44 < mawk> it's probably a custom rolled implem, not a linux standard
2020-04-26T19:18:47 < mawk> by my ISP
2020-04-26T19:25:41 < Cracki> I tried to spot read the rfc. it may say what IPs go in the IP header but I didn't discern that. wikipedia's example packets may be too exampley
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2020-04-26T19:26:36 < catphish> Cracki / mawk:someone just pointed out to me you can ask the server to reply to the broadcast address :)
2020-04-26T19:26:55 < catphish> there's a broadcast reply flag you can set for exactly this reason
2020-04-26T19:27:03 < mawk> ah good
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2020-04-26T19:51:26 < dongs> http://www.pa3fwm.nl/projects/sdr/IMG_4528aa.JPG autism to the max lol
2020-04-26T19:52:14 < zyp> hah
2020-04-26T19:52:36 < dongs> "the pitch was 0.5mm and hard to solder, so i mounted it upside down thsi time
2020-04-26T19:52:49 < zyp> dongs, did you see my usbc question?
2020-04-26T19:52:52 < dongs> QFN package, which has no legs, only soldering pads on the bottom. Soldering this package proved rather difficult last year, so I decided to mount it upside-down this year, and solder thin wires to the pads. Unfortunately, this wasn't easy either, although it does work. It looks like this
2020-04-26T19:52:57 < dongs> zyp, which one?
2020-04-26T19:53:01 < dongs> < zyp> dongs, what's the footprint for that R-S13KG-03 thing?
2020-04-26T19:53:07 < dongs> the full-signal USBC?
2020-04-26T19:53:14 < zyp> yes
2020-04-26T19:53:41 < dongs> iirc its a clone of something, checking
2020-04-26T19:54:46 < dongs> i have a datasheet, will that suffice?
2020-04-26T19:54:59 < zyp> sure
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2020-04-26T19:55:08 < zyp> maybe 3d model too if you have?
2020-04-26T19:55:14 < dongs> yes i have
2020-04-26T19:55:30 < dongs> https://easyupload.io/nv0n2w
2020-04-26T19:55:33 < dongs> and lemme find 3d
2020-04-26T19:56:14 < dongs> https://easyupload.io/kd4gib
2020-04-26T19:56:30 < zyp> nice, thanks
2020-04-26T19:56:42 < zyp> what's .x_t?
2020-04-26T19:56:48 < dongs> idk but altidumb loads it
2020-04-26T19:56:54 < dongs> i think the vendor sent me .igs
2020-04-26T19:57:00 < dongs> and x_t was the only thing that converted without fail
2020-04-26T19:57:09 < zyp> heh
2020-04-26T19:58:03 < dongs> https://easyupload.io/blalb5
2020-04-26T19:58:07 < dongs> here's another ds
2020-04-26T19:58:36 < dongs> thats the random china grabbag thing
2020-04-26T19:58:44 < dongs> if you can track down actual real model#s for that shit feel free
2020-04-26T19:59:21 < zyp> digikey is full of similar looking stuff, but there seems to be some variation in how far the mounting tabs are spaced
2020-04-26T19:59:33 < dongs> yeah i checked and this one was the most common one
2020-04-26T19:59:58 < mawk> lol dongs what is this picture
2020-04-26T20:00:03 < dongs> the last datasheet is very common in china if you ask for typeC/F connector or whatever
2020-04-26T20:00:09 < dongs> mawk: what picvture
2020-04-26T20:00:18 < mawk> the chip mounted upside down
2020-04-26T20:00:20 < mawk> it's a joke ?
2020-04-26T20:00:25 < mawk> or it's a real project from someone
2020-04-26T20:00:26 < dongs> no, its legit shit
2020-04-26T20:00:27 < dongs> yes
2020-04-26T20:00:30 < mawk> lol
2020-04-26T20:00:33 < dongs> http://www.pa3fwm.nl/projects/sdr/#nov2008
2020-04-26T20:01:24 < dongs> http://www.pa3fwm.nl/projects/avreth/ christ
2020-04-26T20:01:31 < dongs> > Receiving ethernet frames on an 8-bit AVR microcontroller
2020-04-26T20:02:03 < mawk> he's a dutch guy
2020-04-26T20:02:07 < mawk> his last name means peasant
2020-04-26T20:02:13 < mawk> boer
2020-04-26T20:02:21 < dongs> brokebitch? well that explains
2020-04-26T20:03:11 < Steffanx> or just farmer mawk.
2020-04-26T20:03:20 < mawk> peasant sounds cooler
2020-04-26T20:03:26 < mawk> only a peasant solders upside down
2020-04-26T20:03:54 < Cracki> dead bug is legitimate if you need to place bodge wires?
2020-04-26T20:04:03 < mawk> probably, but not like this
2020-04-26T20:04:06 < Cracki> ye
2020-04-26T20:04:09 < mawk> there are huge solder blobs
2020-04-26T20:04:17 < Cracki> better practice soldering qfn, or getting a hot air gun
2020-04-26T20:04:30 < mawk> maybe hot air stuff was very expensive in 2008
2020-04-26T20:04:33 < Cracki> maybe he needs visual magnification. and flux.
2020-04-26T20:05:16 < Steffanx> He probably originates from the same god forgotten place as you mawk :P
2020-04-26T20:05:18 < Steffanx> aka friesland
2020-04-26T20:05:29 < mawk> :(
2020-04-26T20:07:17 < Steffanx> :P
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2020-04-26T20:59:56 < Cracki> you're from friesland?
2020-04-26T21:00:31 < Cracki> ancestors maybe from what I recall
2020-04-26T21:00:48 < mawk> my father
2020-04-26T21:01:13 < mawk> he was born in drachten
2020-04-26T21:02:12 < Cracki> finally "ost-friesland" being in the western part of germany makes sense :>
2020-04-26T21:03:50 < mawk> lol
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2020-04-26T21:06:47 < Cracki> ah evropa ;)
2020-04-26T21:10:22 < Steffanx> Frysland boppe.
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2020-04-26T21:19:28 < mawk> fryslân*
2020-04-26T21:21:31 < Steffanx> yes yes
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2020-04-26T21:46:27 < Thorn> $2 qty 10 https://lcsc.com/product-detail/Others_STMicroelectronics_STM32L431CBT6_STMicroelectronics-STM32L431CBT6_C277951.html
2020-04-26T21:47:18 < Thorn> cheaper than l0
2020-04-26T21:50:16 < Mangy_Dog> :o
2020-04-26T21:50:18 < Mangy_Dog> thats cheap
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2020-04-26T21:50:56 < Mangy_Dog> ohhhh
2020-04-26T21:50:57 < Mangy_Dog> L4
2020-04-26T21:51:00 < Mangy_Dog> i read that as F4
2020-04-26T21:51:15 < Mangy_Dog> and then realised it was 80mhz and thought... isnt that meant to be something like 170?
2020-04-26T21:51:32 < mawk> 80, 170, same order of magnitude
2020-04-26T21:51:34 < mawk> same thing
2020-04-26T21:51:40 < mawk> just buy it
2020-04-26T21:51:41 < Cracki> probably newer peripherals
2020-04-26T21:52:37 < Thorn> it's ultra low power, 80 MHz is a lot for a ULP process
2020-04-26T21:52:43 < mawk> omg but Steffanx tomorrow is king's day
2020-04-26T21:52:47 < mawk> I can stay in bed whole day
2020-04-26T21:53:08 < Steffanx> YES
2020-04-26T21:53:18 < Mangy_Dog> so l4 is more efficiant than f1 at around teh same speed?
2020-04-26T21:54:28 < mawk> woningsdag
2020-04-26T21:54:31 < Steffanx> lol yeah
2020-04-26T21:54:39 < Cracki> if you care about power consumption, yes L series
2020-04-26T21:55:01 < Mangy_Dog> how different is it?
2020-04-26T21:56:02 < mawk> it's better
2020-04-26T21:56:07 < Cracki> well the propaganda claims that it has 16 bit adc, it has dacs, ... which is already a step up from F1 https://www.st.com/en/microcontrollers-microprocessors/stm32l4-series.html
2020-04-26T21:56:08 < mawk> more modern peripharls as Cracki says
2020-04-26T21:56:12 < Steffanx> You'd ahve to check the datasheet for that Mangy_Dog ;)
2020-04-26T21:56:30 < Steffanx> And its an M4 vs m3.
2020-04-26T21:56:36 < Cracki> some months ago I looked into the timeline of their series. f1 is old but iirc not the oldest. L series is rather new
2020-04-26T21:56:44 < Mangy_Dog> i must admit i dont know the difference between the Ms
2020-04-26T21:56:45 < mawk> G is newestest
2020-04-26T21:56:46 < Cracki> that too, much float bang
2020-04-26T21:57:00 < mawk> they also put out L0+
2020-04-26T21:57:02 < Cracki> m4 is almost like m3 but with fpu
2020-04-26T21:57:05 < Mangy_Dog> and yueah i assume the newer one has dedicated float/
2020-04-26T21:57:09 < Mangy_Dog> nods
2020-04-26T21:57:10 < Cracki> F1 has CM3
2020-04-26T21:57:19 < Cracki> F3, F4, L4 hve CM4
2020-04-26T21:57:26 < Mangy_Dog> Cm4?
2020-04-26T21:57:30 < Cracki> cortex m 4
2020-04-26T21:57:34 < Mangy_Dog> oh
2020-04-26T21:57:44 < Cracki> the CM4 can technically not have an FPU but nobody is that savage
2020-04-26T21:58:04 < mawk> like they can all be big endian
2020-04-26T21:58:11 < Cracki> nobody is that noble
2020-04-26T21:58:15 < mawk> haha
2020-04-26T21:58:23 < Mangy_Dog> tbh while im sure people are out there that woudl like higher ADC i thought 12 bit was enough
2020-04-26T21:58:38 < Mangy_Dog> 4098 bits was enough points in every application ive worked with so far
2020-04-26T21:58:38 < mawk> 4k vs 64k
2020-04-26T21:58:42 < Mangy_Dog> that used ad
2020-04-26T21:58:54 < mawk> where are you two extra points coming from ?
2020-04-26T21:59:07 < Mangy_Dog> 4096 :p
2020-04-26T21:59:09 < Cracki> human memory bitflips
2020-04-26T21:59:12 < mawk> lol
2020-04-26T21:59:14 < Cracki> like 265 for 256
2020-04-26T21:59:42 < Mangy_Dog> i just jam my stubby fingers on my keyboard and words kinda sorta come out
2020-04-26T21:59:59 < Cracki> eh, the intent matters
2020-04-26T22:00:03 < mawk> some prophets do that
2020-04-26T22:00:08 < mawk> to receive message from ETs
2020-04-26T22:00:17 < Mangy_Dog> heh
2020-04-26T22:00:39 < Cracki> terry a. davis used TRNGs as oracles too
2020-04-26T22:00:44 < mawk> lol
2020-04-26T22:00:54 < mawk> religious 8ball
2020-04-26T22:00:56 < Cracki> (or wikipedia is making shit up)
2020-04-26T22:01:02 < mawk> he probably did
2020-04-26T22:01:06 < mawk> it's all documented in lives
2020-04-26T22:01:20 < Mangy_Dog> anyway id imagen 16bit adc is really for those few applications like lab hardware
2020-04-26T22:01:35 < Mangy_Dog> and by that point there must be a lot more room for error
2020-04-26T22:01:43 < Mangy_Dog> i just cant see how it would be THAT accurate
2020-04-26T22:01:50 < Cracki> that or you need audio processing or something else with a wide dynamic range
2020-04-26T22:02:05 < Cracki> (12 bits is 60 dB, 16 bits is 90 dB)
2020-04-26T22:02:17 < Mangy_Dog> id imagen this chip cant really deal with audio that well>?
2020-04-26T22:02:18 < Cracki> bits amplitude to dB power
2020-04-26T22:02:32 < Steffanx> Specia video for mawk: https://www.dumpert.nl/item/7899755_d5e53843
2020-04-26T22:02:34 < Cracki> why, it's fast, they all have dma anyway, they probably have i2s
2020-04-26T22:02:54 < Mangy_Dog> i mean
2020-04-26T22:03:04 < mawk> lol Steffanx 
2020-04-26T22:03:13 < Cracki> someone here talked about decoding mp3 on an stm32 and it runs fast enough
2020-04-26T22:03:20 < Mangy_Dog> in fairness i have a bluetooth speaker project coming after my stargate... and ill be doing a frequincy chart for the lcd
2020-04-26T22:03:34 < Mangy_Dog> i didnt realise that was possible at all
2020-04-26T22:03:52 < Cracki> fourier transform is definitely possible
2020-04-26T22:03:59 < Cracki> for those little bar charts eh
2020-04-26T22:04:05 < Mangy_Dog> yeah that
2020-04-26T22:04:22 < Cracki> there's an app(note) for that :> https://www.st.com/resource/en/application_note/dm00273990-digital-signal-processing-for-stm32-microcontrollers-using-cmsis-stmicroelectronics.pdf
2020-04-26T22:04:30 < Mangy_Dog> im still deciding if i really want to learn the maths
2020-04-26T22:04:34 < Mangy_Dog> and make my own function 
2020-04-26T22:04:39 < Mangy_Dog> or use a library for it :p
2020-04-26T22:04:43 < Cracki> they mention FDT/fourier as the second paragraph of algorithms
2020-04-26T22:04:53 < Cracki> you don't learn the maths, you just call the function
2020-04-26T22:05:17 < Mangy_Dog> ill be using a f1 :p
2020-04-26T22:05:20 < Cracki> fourier itself is simple to grasp but fast fourier does some tricks to go from simple O(n^2) to O(nlogn)
2020-04-26T22:05:53 < mawk> it's quite easy tricks
2020-04-26T22:05:57 < mawk> cutting up
2020-04-26T22:05:57 < Cracki> I think there are fixed precision or integer variants too
2020-04-26T22:05:59 < mawk> dichotomy
2020-04-26T22:06:05 < Mangy_Dog> but the f1 wont be processing audio just displaying a chart... ill be having a dedicated audio bt receiver hardware 
2020-04-26T22:06:25 < mawk> get rid of the dedicated hw
2020-04-26T22:06:34 < Mangy_Dog> :o
2020-04-26T22:06:35 < Cracki> if you're after a bar chart only (a dozen bands, not a complete fourier transform) , that's an optimizable special case
2020-04-26T22:06:57 < Mangy_Dog> ive not decided how many bars yet
2020-04-26T22:07:00 < Mangy_Dog> migth even be 100
2020-04-26T22:07:00 < Cracki> what happens between the BT receiver and the stm32? i2s audio? analog?
2020-04-26T22:07:25 < Mangy_Dog> sht stm just runs control commands 
2020-04-26T22:07:29 < Mangy_Dog> and handles the display hardware
2020-04-26T22:07:43 < Mangy_Dog> ive far from finalised hardware 
2020-04-26T22:07:50 < Cracki> dsp for F0 even! http://users.ece.utexas.edu/~valvano/EE345M/UM0585.pdf
2020-04-26T22:07:50 < Mangy_Dog> its just concepting in my grey matter at the moment
2020-04-26T22:08:02 < Cracki> those are cortex m0? m1? less than M3
2020-04-26T22:08:40 < Mangy_Dog> hmmmmm fully built in FF
2020-04-26T22:08:50 < Mangy_Dog> wheres it pulling hte library from?
2020-04-26T22:09:22 < Cracki> that's just the ST appnote on a random site, I'm sure they have it in their downloads section
2020-04-26T22:10:13 < Mangy_Dog> cubeMX base project build?
2020-04-26T22:10:24 < Cracki> likely
2020-04-26T22:10:29 < Mangy_Dog> maybe this is the time i make my step away from rogerclarks core and do things properly
2020-04-26T22:10:46 < Cracki> they give you the code, you can just hook dhtat into whatever build system you choose
2020-04-26T22:11:04 < Mangy_Dog> hmm
2020-04-26T22:11:11 < Cracki> the "eeprom emulation" from ST is also just a bunch of header and code files, and an example
2020-04-26T22:11:23 < Mangy_Dog> oh wait cant move away from roger clarks core the graphics chip library is tied to the arduino like enviroment
2020-04-26T22:11:31 < Cracki> then stick to it
2020-04-26T22:11:41 < Mangy_Dog> and im really not keen on porting that to a hal like system that i REALLY dont know how to use yet
2020-04-26T22:11:49 < Cracki> is this inside arduino? you can just wrap whatever ST code in an arduino library
2020-04-26T22:12:13 < Cracki> a dsp function likely needs no hal
2020-04-26T22:12:14 < Mangy_Dog> kinda inside arduino
2020-04-26T22:12:18 < Thorn> L4 is weird in that not every one has CRS for crystal-less USB
2020-04-26T22:12:26 < Thorn> for example that l476 doesn't lol
2020-04-26T22:12:39 < Thorn> (but you can use LSE of all things)
2020-04-26T22:12:52 < Thorn> >RT9026 is a 3A sink/source tracking termination regulator
2020-04-26T22:12:57 < Thorn> the more you know.jpg
2020-04-26T22:15:01 < Steffanx> Not every F0 has crystal-less USB either
2020-04-26T22:16:07 < Mangy_Dog> do most stm32 chips run on 8mhz crystals?
2020-04-26T22:17:15 < Cracki> most, if not all, will run on 8 mhz, but you can use whatever fits the multiplicators and divisors of the clock tree
2020-04-26T22:18:06 < Cracki> my boss would have picked a 24 mhz. you can use weird frequencies too but that might not suit whatever derives from it (e.g. usb)
2020-04-26T22:18:20 < Mangy_Dog> ooohh
2020-04-26T22:18:20 < Cracki> (24 mhz would have been fine for usb)
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2020-04-26T22:18:44 < Cracki> start cubemx, start a dummy project, play around with the settings in the clock tree
2020-04-26T22:18:52 < Mangy_Dog> nods
2020-04-26T22:19:59 < Cracki> you might have seen a second crystal on some stm32 boards. that might be 32768 Hz and you can actually run on that, or just drive the RTC with it
2020-04-26T22:20:19 < Mangy_Dog> hmmm
2020-04-26T22:20:37 < Cracki> (drive rtc, sleep/shut off until something happens)
2020-04-26T22:20:50 < Mangy_Dog> i thought most of these f1 and f3 chips just had 1 clock channel?
2020-04-26T22:21:32 < Cracki> the f3 boards I have (robotdyn) definitely have a second thing on the back and I think I remember it being 32-something crystal
2020-04-26T22:21:37 < Cracki> dunno about f1
2020-04-26T22:21:43 < Thorn> wtf is "clock channel"
2020-04-26T22:21:53 < Mangy_Dog> xtal
2020-04-26T22:21:59 < Cracki> you have HSE and LSE, high/low speed external
2020-04-26T22:22:06 < Thorn> all stm32 except smallest packages have hse & lse afaik
2020-04-26T22:22:07 < Mangy_Dog> hmm
2020-04-26T22:22:21 < Mangy_Dog> even on 48 pin chips?
2020-04-26T22:22:21 < Cracki> some have more, with specialized uses
2020-04-26T22:22:22 < Thorn> plus multiple internal oscillators: hsi, lsi, hsi48 etc.
2020-04-26T22:22:35 < Cracki> yep, my f3 is 48 pin
2020-04-26T22:22:47 < Mangy_Dog> i was just thinking for a moment about the rtc, can it be used for actually being..... A clock...
2020-04-26T22:23:06 < Cracki> that's exaclty what it does
2020-04-26T22:23:22 < Cracki> the 32768 hz crystal is exactly so you can divide it trivially down to seconds
2020-04-26T22:23:38 < Cracki> it can be fed from the "battery" pin which may be a coin cell
2020-04-26T22:23:53 < Cracki> it'll run while everything else is off, if you want it to
2020-04-26T22:24:15 < Cracki> and you can set up wake times
2020-04-26T22:24:37 < Mangy_Dog> ahhh
2020-04-26T22:24:43 < Cracki> that'll make it start up again, either from sleep (maintains ram) or from dead off
2020-04-26T22:25:17 < Mangy_Dog> ill be doing a new speedometer project down the line
2020-04-26T22:25:19 < Mangy_Dog> and i want a clock
2020-04-26T22:25:21 < Mangy_Dog> :D
2020-04-26T22:26:31 < Mangy_Dog> so having a clock that can be powered when the bikes turned off and keep time would be good
2020-04-26T22:27:21 < Mangy_Dog> wow suns just gone down.... and its chilling up quickly
2020-04-26T22:27:30 < Mangy_Dog> been 20c today
2020-04-26T22:30:06 < Cracki> oh, ST simply uses the CMSIS DSP stuff. kinda obvious, it all only depends on the cortex and nothing else
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2020-04-26T22:30:35 < Cracki> https://arm-software.github.io/CMSIS_5/DSP/html/index.html
2020-04-26T22:31:18 < Cracki> wouldn't surprise me if someone got that exposed in arduino for stm32
2020-04-26T22:31:25 < Mangy_Dog> hmm
2020-04-26T22:54:38 < Thorn> how do I ddr3
2020-04-26T22:54:42 < Thorn> I want to ddr3
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2020-04-26T22:56:25 < englishman> https://academy.fedevel.com/courses/schematic-pcb-design-course-online
2020-04-26T22:57:22 < englishman> you copy paste from the datasheet.
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2020-04-26T23:00:05 < Thorn> englishman he wanted people to translate his courses into various languages, you get them for free of course if you agree to help with subtitles. I submitted my application, he never replied
2020-04-26T23:00:24 < Thorn> maybe I made a mistake in my email address lol
2020-04-26T23:00:31 < englishman> i had to watch those @ work
2020-04-26T23:00:35 < englishman> they are pretty cringey
2020-04-26T23:00:45 < englishman> yeah you probably got in the spam filter due to .ru
2020-04-26T23:00:57 < Thorn> gmail is .com
2020-04-26T23:01:23 < Thorn> and now I'm busy with work
2020-04-26T23:02:00 < englishman> he does spend a lot of time on ddr3 tho
2020-04-26T23:02:35 < Thorn> >ST highly recommends to reuse the layout of the ST reference designs.
2020-04-26T23:02:40 < Thorn> *applause*
2020-04-26T23:15:32 < Thorn> "or main goal now is to *block* the immune response" https://www.facebook.com/boris.teplykh/posts/3155518711178498
2020-04-26T23:16:45 < jpa-> meh, my SD card access was working fine until I closed the enclosure, then it totally stopped working - I can't understand why https://jpa.kapsi.fi/stuff/pix/IMG_20200426_231521.jpg
2020-04-26T23:17:29 < Ultrasauce> just run resize2fs
2020-04-26T23:18:35 < jpa-> good idea
2020-04-26T23:19:15 < invzim> glue it together, then send it to Kingston and demand a replacement
2020-04-26T23:22:10 < qyx> https://hackaday.com/2018/08/04/hacked-vacuum-chamber-wont-suck-a-hole-in-your-budget/
2020-04-26T23:22:13 < qyx> :D
2020-04-26T23:23:33 < zyp> nice
2020-04-26T23:25:29 < jpa-> qyx: i use an old frying pan that has a glass lid, i just added some rubber to the edges of the lid
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2020-04-26T23:27:16 < Steffanx> Did it implode?
2020-04-26T23:27:19 < catphish> does nobody ever sell their DS1054z, never seen one for sale that wasn't brand new
2020-04-26T23:27:39 < Thorn> btw apparently bodybuilders taking steroids are at a very high risk of thrombosis if infected with corona
2020-04-26T23:27:45 < englishman> get one new then, arent they like $300
2020-04-26T23:27:53 < catphish> englishman: no
2020-04-26T23:27:56 < zyp> catphish, do you wanna buy my DS1042C?
2020-04-26T23:28:07 < Steffanx> or my DS1052E? :P
2020-04-26T23:28:28 < jpa-> Steffanx: nope, it is nicely round to stands up to vacuum quite well
2020-04-26T23:28:39 < zyp> I mean it's effectively a DS1102C now :p
2020-04-26T23:28:41 < englishman> oh $350
2020-04-26T23:28:44 < englishman> big deal
2020-04-26T23:28:51 < Steffanx> the plexiglass in that video didnt seem to like it a lot..
2020-04-26T23:29:22 < catphish> englishman: 367.92 GBP
2020-04-26T23:29:33 < catphish> not crazy money, sure
2020-04-26T23:29:37 < englishman> thanks brexit
2020-04-26T23:29:40 < Steffanx> Didnt you just sell your company? You must be a rich britbong now :P
2020-04-26T23:29:57 < englishman> https://www.tequipment.net/Rigol/DS1054Z/Digital-Oscilloscopes/
2020-04-26T23:30:00 < englishman> 283gbp
2020-04-26T23:30:14 < Thorn> moneyed westerners
2020-04-26T23:30:18 < Steffanx> where?
2020-04-26T23:30:29 < englishman> yeah Steffanx but he sold it for GBP.
2020-04-26T23:30:34 < catphish> englishman: wow that IS cheap
2020-04-26T23:30:59 < Steffanx> Oof: "1 Pound sterling equals 1,24 United States Dollar"
2020-04-26T23:31:03 < englishman> shipping is probably 100£
2020-04-26T23:31:32 < catphish> englishman: yeah £410 with shipping
2020-04-26T23:31:43 < englishman> i hope the video store is disinfecting their vhs tapes after people return them
2020-04-26T23:31:51 < englishman> haha
2020-04-26T23:33:33 < catphish> i'm sure i'd be happy with a DS1042C or a DS1052E if they're 1) cheap and 2) hackable to 100MHz
2020-04-26T23:33:50 < Steffanx> Already done :P
2020-04-26T23:33:51 < catphish> i dont *need* 4 channels
2020-04-26T23:34:22 < zyp> I emailed one of my old coworkers the other day asking if he still had the Tek MSO4054 and if I could borrow it later
2020-04-26T23:34:28 < catphish> the DS1052E is only £270 GBP new now, wow
2020-04-26T23:34:36 < zyp> he told me I should just come pick it up when I need it :p
2020-04-26T23:40:17 < catphish> MSO4054 looks sexy
2020-04-26T23:41:41 < catphish> zyp: are the digital channels useful?
2020-04-26T23:41:56 < catphish> i've never used  a scope with digital channels
2020-04-26T23:42:49 < jpa-> i've found digital channels quite useful
2020-04-26T23:42:52 < catphish> oh the DS1042C doesn't have them, never mind
2020-04-26T23:43:30 < jpa-> e.g. in many kinds of PWM controllers and motor drivers, you can put the control signals on digital channels and save the analog ones for the real stuff
2020-04-26T23:43:32 < catphish> they always seemed overpriced for something i can do with my fx2 and pulseview
2020-04-26T23:44:01 < catphish> but having digital and analog side by side would be useful for things like motor control as you say
2020-04-26T23:44:04 < jpa-> well yeah, not worth paying a lot extra for - but on higher end models the premium is not much
2020-04-26T23:44:15 < jpa-> 4 channels analog already is plenty for most stuff
2020-04-26T23:44:41 < englishman> the way the new teks do it is pretty cool
2020-04-26T23:44:49 < englishman> you just get a different probe that has 8 logic inputs
2020-04-26T23:45:10 < englishman> so you can have 3 analolgue + 8 digital
2020-04-26T23:45:35 < catphish> interesting
2020-04-26T23:51:04 < catphish> i'll take either of those 2 channel scopes if the prices are £giveaway, else i'll just stop being cheap and order a new 1054Z
2020-04-26T23:53:46 < zyp> the DS1042C is probably worth more to me than what you're willing to pay :p
2020-04-26T23:54:15 < catphish> i thought that might be the case, hence none of these things ever seem to appear on ebay
2020-04-26T23:54:45 < catphish> zyp: i started fleshing out my network code https://github.com/catphish/accesscontrol/blob/master/ethernet.c
2020-04-26T23:55:17 < catphish> spend ages making it properly layered, now i can add protocols a bit more easily
2020-04-26T23:55:30 < zyp> but I mean, what would you realistically be willing to pay?
2020-04-26T23:57:15 < Cracki> bisect on the numbers range, rate your pain
2020-04-26T23:57:32 < zyp> :)
2020-04-26T23:57:57 < Cracki> 0 bucks 0 pain, 300 bucks one week of starvation
2020-04-26T23:58:17 < catphish> that's a good question, given that i'm kinda sold on the 1054Z, probably less then it's worth, maybe 150 of my finest english pounds
--- Day changed Mon Apr 27 2020
2020-04-27T00:00:25 < zyp> that's actually at a point where I would consider it
2020-04-27T00:00:31 < catphish> should have let Steffanx offer me the 1052 for less before i said that :)
2020-04-27T00:00:59 < zyp> but that leaves me without a scope, and I don't have plans to buy a new anytime soon
2020-04-27T00:01:13 < catphish> well then selling seems silly!
2020-04-27T00:01:33 < catphish> given that a new 1052 is £270 including shipping, i usually aim to pay about half for second hand
2020-04-27T00:01:38 < karlp> guess y9ou just need the mso4054 "a lot" now then zyp ;)
2020-04-27T00:01:56 < catphish> the DS1042C doesn't seem drastically different
2020-04-27T00:02:05 < zyp> karlp, yeah, I just don't know how much I can borrow it :p
2020-04-27T00:02:41 < zyp> catphish, I'm not sure what the difference is either, apart from bandwidth, and that is moot since either would naturally be modified to 100MHz
2020-04-27T00:03:28 < zyp> karlp, maybe it'd be like the beagle480 which is still sitting on my desk eight years later
2020-04-27T00:03:32 < catphish> oh, the 1052E is newer and has 1GSa/s
2020-04-27T00:03:41 < catphish> DS1042C  is only 400
2020-04-27T00:04:00 < catphish> i think that's the main difference, new ADC, 2.5x faster
2020-04-27T00:04:01 < zyp> even when it's effectively an DS1102C?
2020-04-27T00:04:11 < catphish> i think so
2020-04-27T00:04:18 < catphish> http://www.miko.hk/Rigol/DS1042C.htm
2020-04-27T00:04:24 < catphish> 400 MSa/s regardless of model
2020-04-27T00:04:31 < catphish> obviously they all use the same ADC anyway
2020-04-27T00:04:32 < zyp> oh, right
2020-04-27T00:05:27 < catphish> using 2 chanels, 200 MSa/s seems kinda minimal for 100MHz
2020-04-27T00:06:14 < catphish> i guess not much different from 4 channels running on a 1GS/a device though
2020-04-27T00:06:27 < zyp> still good enough that I actually found the problem when I scoped 100Mb/s ethernet with it :)
2020-04-27T00:06:50 < catphish> that's cool
2020-04-27T00:07:12 < catphish> one thing i actually want to be able to do is scope 100Mbit ethernet (at least the 50MHz RMII)
2020-04-27T00:07:35 < catphish> although debugging PHY might be useful too
2020-04-27T00:07:52 < zyp> https://bin.jvnv.net/file/uqm0t.jpg
2020-04-27T00:08:06 < zyp> https://bin.jvnv.net/file/fRAqT.jpg
2020-04-27T00:08:12 < Steffanx> Heh
2020-04-27T00:08:16 < catphish> impressive
2020-04-27T00:08:19 < zyp> not very good eye diagrams, but still eye diagrams :)
2020-04-27T00:10:38 < zyp> problem I was debugging was that assemblyhouse had fucked up and put 75k instead of the 75ohm terminations
2020-04-27T00:11:08 < zyp> which resulted in sometimes being able to establish a link, but mostly not
2020-04-27T00:11:48 < Steffanx> The joy
2020-04-27T00:11:54 < zyp> yeah
2020-04-27T00:12:00 < karlp> is one of those (uqm0t) "acceptable" and the other "not acceptable" ?
2020-04-27T00:12:15 < karlp> or shoujld they jsut actually be properly open eyes?
2020-04-27T00:12:20 < zyp> no, I think those are tx and rx end
2020-04-27T00:12:32 < zyp> both with a link established
2020-04-27T00:13:04 < zyp> https://bin.jvnv.net/file/Nlj5S.jpg <- and without a link established
2020-04-27T00:13:27 < zyp> I figure it's all over the place since it's trying various gain settings or something
2020-04-27T00:14:02 < zyp> IIRC these are all from before I found the problem
2020-04-27T00:15:06 < catphish> hopefully jlcpcb don't screw up my boards
2020-04-27T00:15:12 < zyp> I think I got on track of the problem when I found the signal amplitude to be a lot higher on this device than on the other device (with correct termination)
2020-04-27T00:15:22 < zyp> on the phy rx pins
2020-04-27T00:15:24 < catphish> my design skills will be enough of a problem without adding assembly issues into the mix
2020-04-27T00:15:35 < Steffanx> Hah
2020-04-27T00:15:42 < catphish> zyp: ah, thats a clear sign at least
2020-04-27T00:15:51 < Steffanx> Did DHL release your stuff yet?
2020-04-27T00:16:04 < Steffanx> Oh they don't work on Saturday and Sunday ofcourse
2020-04-27T00:16:12 < zyp> yeah, that lead me down the track of double checking the schematics, schematics looked identical
2020-04-27T00:16:35 < zyp> and eventually I double checked what the markins on the resistors meant and found they were 75k
2020-04-27T00:16:36 < catphish> now, the question is should i buy a DS1054Z or a samsung galaxy watch
2020-04-27T00:16:39 < catphish> both look fun
2020-04-27T00:16:44 < zyp> neither
2020-04-27T00:17:03 < catphish> well okay then
2020-04-27T00:17:04 < zyp> https://www.rigolna.com/products/digital-oscilloscopes/MSO5000/ <- buy this one instead
2020-04-27T00:17:21 < catphish> i do love the black case
2020-04-27T00:17:26 < zyp> IIRC that one can also be upgraded to 350 MHz
2020-04-27T00:17:29 < karlp> are the 1000z series as loud as the 1000d/e series?
2020-04-27T00:17:39 < catphish> the MSO5074?
2020-04-27T00:17:55 < zyp> https://hackaday.com/2018/12/19/rigol-mso5000-hacked-features-unlocked/
2020-04-27T00:18:09 < catphish> zyp: that's actually seriously tempting
2020-04-27T00:18:19 < catphish> what is MSO anyway?
2020-04-27T00:18:26 < zyp> yeah, I'd probably look at that if I were putting money into a new scope today
2020-04-27T00:18:33 < zyp> mixed signal oscilloscope
2020-04-27T00:18:35 < Steffanx> 2018.. I'd like into it if its STILL possible
2020-04-27T00:18:40 < zyp> i.e. it has both digital and analog inputs
2020-04-27T00:18:43 < Steffanx> Sometimes they do fix stuff
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2020-04-27T00:19:13 < catphish> zyp: specifically the MSO5074?
2020-04-27T00:19:19 < catphish> then try to hack to 350MHa?
2020-04-27T00:19:37 < Ultrasauce> jeez how many square kilometres is that
2020-04-27T00:19:44 < catphish> haha
2020-04-27T00:19:51 < catphish> Ultrasauce: lots :p
2020-04-27T00:19:58 < zyp> catphish, exactly
2020-04-27T00:20:12 < catphish> zyp: that has the x2 signal generator too?!
2020-04-27T00:20:23 < zyp> apparently
2020-04-27T00:20:33 < catphish> £976.50 !
2020-04-27T00:20:53 < catphish> but, if it can be upgraded to 4 channel 350MHz and signal generator, might be worth it
2020-04-27T00:21:12 < catphish> and that black case!
2020-04-27T00:23:27 < Steffanx> The white rigol doesn't like you when you say it like that 
2020-04-27T00:25:35 < Ultrasauce> what sort of work are you going to be doing with it anyway catphish
2020-04-27T00:25:44 < zyp> Steffanx, looks like they still are
2020-04-27T00:28:37 < zyp> ah, only difference between the MSO5072 and the MSO5074 after unlocking is the number of included probes :p
2020-04-27T00:28:52 < Ultrasauce> according to the above it sounds more like you want a cheap LA to me
2020-04-27T00:30:15 < Steffanx> I'm not sure if I'm a big fan of scopes with a touch screen
2020-04-27T00:30:48 < zyp> I assume using it is optional, still have the function buttons next to the screen
2020-04-27T00:32:04 < Cracki> the touch stuff is for finger painting test patterns, i.e. cross this rectangle, don't touch that rectangle
2020-04-27T00:32:59 < Cracki> that's something I would find tiresome to set up with a knob and flipping through cursors
2020-04-27T00:33:19 < zyp> agreed
2020-04-27T00:34:21 < catphish> Ultrasauce: i have a fx2 LA, it does much of what i need, but i also want a scope, my requirements are minimal
2020-04-27T00:34:52 < catphish> but something with a proper screen, that i can poke both digital and analog circuits with and get real time output
2020-04-27T00:35:18 < Steffanx> I must say I did like the web interface of the R&S at work. Worked surprisingly well
2020-04-27T00:35:24 < catphish> i just have a variety of hobby projects, most digital, but some have analog elements
2020-04-27T00:37:25 < englishman> on my mso I had to open it up and attach a jlink to crack some key. it wasn't trivial like the dao
2020-04-27T00:37:26 < englishman> dso
2020-04-27T00:37:38 < englishman> it was easy, just not as such
2020-04-27T00:38:34 < zyp> on my DS1042C I entered some magic keycombo that brought up a secret menu that let me select scope model
2020-04-27T00:38:41 < Steffanx> Lol
2020-04-27T00:39:01 < zyp> http://codenaschen.de/tichyblog/index.php?action=blog&entry=17_Hacking%20Rigol%20DS1022C%20DS1042C%20DS1062C%20DS1102C
2020-04-27T00:45:26 < catphish> the DS1000Z is just a keygen i believe
2020-04-27T00:47:17 < catphish> i only need a scope for my current project if i fucked something up anyway, if i designed it right, it'll just work :)
2020-04-27T00:47:32 < catphish> i'm more worried about the power supply than anything
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2020-04-27T00:53:18 < qyx> anyone ever did cp210x gpio settings change?
2020-04-27T00:58:52 < catphish> time to finish DHCPC implementation
2020-04-27T01:07:48 < qyx> fuk karlp did everything I may dream of
2020-04-27T01:09:21 < qyx> karlp: any quick info on how to enable rs485 from openwrt on cp2102n?
2020-04-27T01:09:38 < qyx> found your github manufacturing package
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2020-04-27T03:34:50 < karlp> qyx: flip one of the bits?
2020-04-27T03:35:15 < karlp> we ended up using ft230x as the manufacturing guys could get it cheaper
2020-04-27T03:35:33 < karlp> and that works for rs485 driver enable out of the box, so I never actually used that shit in real anger :)
2020-04-27T03:36:05 < karlp> that's jsut packaging some gross as hell silabs code I dug up
2020-04-27T03:36:34 < karlp> and things like libusb and shit just to reprogram that eeprom built into the final build was never very appealing either
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2020-04-27T06:23:13 < dongs> Testing
2020-04-27T06:23:13 < dongs> ========+++Dhanush+++==========//
2020-04-27T06:23:13 < dongs> ====+++Coded By Arjun+++===// =====+++An Indian Hacker+++=====// Set Username & Password
2020-04-27T06:23:16 < dongs> $user = "Dhanush";
2020-04-27T06:23:18 < dongs> $pass = "Dhanush";
2020-04-27T06:23:21 < dongs> $malsite = "http://fightagent.ru"; // Malware Site
2020-04-27T06:23:24 < dongs> $ind = "WW91IGp1c3QgZ290IGhhY2tlZCAhISEhIQ=="; // Base64 encoded "You Just Got Hacked !!"
2020-04-27T06:23:51 < Cracki> vat is zis
2020-04-27T06:24:16 < Cracki> virus scanner says HPH/Webshell.PC
2020-04-27T06:25:08 < dongs> apaprently if ur running mirc and paste this in a channel or receive this as a msg it flags it as malware
2020-04-27T06:25:36 < Cracki> windows defender does it for hexchat too because it ends up in the logs, which are scanned even tho they're .log/.txt
2020-04-27T06:25:37 < dongs> nio> windows defender found it
2020-04-27T06:25:37 < dongs> pAw> same, just got a defender notification
2020-04-27T06:25:44 < dongs> ooh
2020-04-27T06:25:46 < dongs> logs right
2020-04-27T06:25:51 < Cracki> so this is how you find the windows users
2020-04-27T06:25:53 < Streaker> and your chat logs get fucked
2020-04-27T06:27:03 < Streaker> I wonder if this will get  http://xob.kapsi.fi/~jpa/stm32/ flagged as a malware site by Google
2020-04-27T06:27:05 < Cracki> funny that it reacts to this puny bunch of strings and assignments
2020-04-27T06:27:22 < Cracki> it doesn't do anything, even if you executed it
2020-04-27T06:27:53 < dongs> the shit looks like a fragment of PHP? or wahtever bullshti script
2020-04-27T06:28:19 < dongs> dhanush must be super famous
2020-04-27T06:28:43 < Cracki> it's php yes
2020-04-27T06:29:02 < Cracki> could be perl too, maybe even ruby
2020-04-27T06:29:07 < Cracki> they all have $variable
2020-04-27T06:30:17 < Cracki> it's kinda silly to put the decoded string in the comment. the purpose of encoding it is obfuscation
2020-04-27T06:30:41 < Cracki> not like that stops shit like windows defender from actually executing it to figure out what it does
2020-04-27T06:31:07 < Cracki> iirc windows defender or the previous incarnation just executed any javascript it saw on the wire, and the sandbox wasn't all that boxed
2020-04-27T06:32:21 < Cracki> https://arstechnica.com/information-technology/2017/05/windows-defender-nscript-remote-vulnerability/ https://arstechnica.com/information-technology/2017/06/latest-high-severity-flaw-in-windows-defender-highlights-the-dark-side-of-av/
2020-04-27T06:32:56 < Cracki> lol it fits in a fucking tweet  https://twitter.com/natashenka/status/861748397409058816
2020-04-27T06:33:01 < dongs> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8kkBseVTUow lmao usa
2020-04-27T06:34:53 < Cracki> heil
2020-04-27T06:34:58 < Cracki> omg these people
2020-04-27T06:36:05 < Cracki> dude has an afro, except not african but...
2020-04-27T06:38:16 < aandrew> lol dongs, using poor dhanush's code
2020-04-27T06:42:38 < dongs> ====+++Coded By Arjun+++===// =====+++An Indian Hacker+++=====// Set Username & Password
2020-04-27T06:42:41 < dongs> apparently thats all it takes
2020-04-27T06:42:54 < dongs> to trigger
2020-04-27T06:43:10 < dongs> ====+++Coded By Arjun+++===//
2020-04-27T06:43:10 < dongs> =====+++An Indian Hacker+++=====//
2020-04-27T06:43:11 < dongs> Set Username & Password
2020-04-27T06:43:12 < dongs> on 3 lines
2020-04-27T06:44:57 < Streaker> try just the one line? 
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2020-04-27T06:51:19 < dongs> nah has to be on 3
2020-04-27T06:53:30 < strata> <?php eval(base64_decode("dGhpcyBpcyBzcnMgbWFsd2FyZQ==")); ?>
2020-04-27T08:09:45 < aandrew> fuck I dislike javascript
2020-04-27T08:10:35 < aandrew> if (someobj.member_that_doesnt_exist == foo) { } does not throw an error
2020-04-27T08:11:43 < aandrew> just silently evaluates false
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2020-04-27T10:58:23 < Thorn> lol the image is from fedevel https://www.altium.com/documentation/altium-designer/defining-high-speed-signal-paths-with-xsignals-ad
2020-04-27T11:01:27 < Steffanx> Are you singing the Dutch national anthem now mawk?
2020-04-27T11:01:40 < Steffanx> A good Dutchy should do that
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2020-04-27T12:24:45 < catphish> yay https://i.imgur.com/I2UYkbs.png
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2020-04-27T12:29:17 < Steffanx> Ohno
2020-04-27T12:29:45 < catphish> shenzen wares :)
2020-04-27T12:30:05 < catphish> and an answer to whether my power supply will work, or just explode :)
2020-04-27T12:31:32 < PaulFertser> I've bought power supply for my SBC + HDD , it looked like a typical laptop brick but with 12 V + 5 V Molex connector. It worked nicely for a year or two. Then one day just stopped...
2020-04-27T12:32:42 < PaulFertser> I haven't disassembled it yet, it's at another location, so can't say what exactly failed.
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2020-04-27T13:07:04 < Steffanx> Heh, so it  can be anything? From a broken filesystem to failed psu to whatever can go wrong with software/electroncics? 
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2020-04-27T14:19:08 < PaulFertser> Steffanx: no, I know it's the PSU because I asked my father and he attached proper ATX (and shorted green wire to gnd to make it always-on) and the machine was back online.
2020-04-27T14:19:24 < Steffanx> aha :)
2020-04-27T14:19:49 < Steffanx> You have a dad that knows his shit.. or at least is not afraid to try with instructions :P
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2020-04-27T14:22:33 < PaulFertser> Steffanx: I've already "tweeted" his story here BTW, he started with 8051 back in the days, e.g. was measuring jitter of cinema film (probably with FFT processing).
2020-04-27T14:24:07 < Steffanx> oh, i remember. Then he went sysadmin.
2020-04-27T14:24:11 < PaulFertser> Yep
2020-04-27T14:25:36 < PaulFertser> Steffanx: do you notice dots in the upper right corner of all old films once about 10 minutes?
2020-04-27T14:26:25 < Steffanx> I dont watch many old movies, so .. not really.
2020-04-27T14:26:47 < Steffanx> also what is old?
2020-04-27T14:26:56 < Steffanx> pre 2000? pre 1980?
2020-04-27T14:29:17 < PaulFertser> Old projectors accepted rolls with about 300 meters of film only, so each ~10 minutes you have to switch to the next one. So you prepare the other projector in advance and when you see the first dot you press the button to start the motor (so that the speed is steady for quality sound) and then 7 seconds later you see the next dot and press the button and one projector drops "the curtain"
2020-04-27T14:29:23 < PaulFertser> (between the Xenon lamp and the film) and the one you're standing next to opens it, so the transition is smooth.
2020-04-27T14:30:54 < PaulFertser> Some projectors could do with 600 m, some with 3x that. But I doubt 2+ hours could fit in one roll in any case.
2020-04-27T14:35:45 < PaulFertser> The projectors usually have https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Geneva_drive (or a pawl on smaller/simpler devices) and they all have instability and so for QA it made sense to use an MCU to measure how accurate they were.
2020-04-27T14:36:12 < PaulFertser> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Movie_projector#Changeover better explains "the dots".
2020-04-27T14:36:23 < Steffanx> Reminds me of this video i saw a few days ago. Never imagined it would take > 5 minutes to set up an imax movie (on a 30 years old projector): https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_uFyp1WS1Fw
2020-04-27T14:38:15 < Steffanx> Im also kinda surprised he does it his bare hands, but .. ok
2020-04-27T14:39:45 < PaulFertser> For many summer "vacations" (to spend a month or two at the coast of Azov sea) he was switching roles becoming a regular projector operator (and my mother becoming cashier and hand-drawing posters) for a months or two.
2020-04-27T14:40:21 < PaulFertser> So I was literally sleeping many nights in the room next to the projectors. 
2020-04-27T14:41:27 < PaulFertser> They are damn noisy but you get used to it soon enough.
2020-04-27T14:42:32 < Steffanx> No i dont. Even the humming sounds of the disks in my NAS in my room can keep me up sometimes :P
2020-04-27T14:43:08 < PaulFertser> More annoying are the viewers starting to shout and whistle when the old film tears. Stupid people, as if they think it can help with properly gluing it back (a special cutting-holding device was used to apply transparent PSA tape to connect the film parts).
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2020-04-27T14:47:28 < jpa-> "One advantage of this system (at least for the theatre management) was that if a programme was running a few minutes late for any reason, the projectionist would simply omit one (or more) reels of film to recover the time."   :D
2020-04-27T14:54:04 < PaulFertser> Steffanx: the imax video is entertaining, thanks!
2020-04-27T14:56:45 < PaulFertser> I can't tell if we were ever doing that on purpose but I'm sure there was at least one time the parts got mixed up :)
2020-04-27T15:10:46 < azonenberg> PaulFertser: i've seen a lot of those dots
2020-04-27T15:11:09 < azonenberg> my uncle used to work in a movie theater as a projectionist
2020-04-27T15:11:15 < azonenberg> ever since he told me about them i could never unsee them lol
2020-04-27T15:21:16 < mawk> Steffanx :(
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2020-04-27T15:33:51 < PaulFertser> azonenberg: exactly :)
2020-04-27T15:36:42 < PaulFertser> There's also similar thing about temprorary geodetic marks. Most times a survey is performed a special geodetic nail is hammered into the surface, and sometimes a small ring is drawn with a marker around it. Before you know about those you can hardly notice their presence.
2020-04-27T15:37:27 < azonenberg> oh i see those all the time
2020-04-27T15:38:40 < mawk> you can play the same game with rats in paris, you know a public garden is nearby
2020-04-27T15:40:53 < PaulFertser> btw, is it normal to see rats near garbage bins in EU?
2020-04-27T15:41:31 < mawk> that depends on how much
2020-04-27T15:41:37 < mawk> I used to never see rats
2020-04-27T15:41:41 < mawk> it's a recent invasion, at least in paris
2020-04-27T15:41:52 < mawk> tourists are starting to notice
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2020-04-27T15:47:09 < PaulFertser> I saw plenty on the public garbage place recently and asked the company what they can do about it. They said they can put rat poison not near the bins but in the nearby houses underground floor. I said please now, I fear for the cats that live there, they said ok whatever. 
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2020-04-27T15:48:38 < fenugrec> some rat poison is actually mostly corn starch IIRC. dehydrates them to death but does not make them poisonous to predators
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2020-04-27T15:49:28 < Mangy_Dog> umm no
2020-04-27T15:49:50 < Mangy_Dog> rat poison is very high doses of blood thinners
2020-04-27T15:50:00 < Mangy_Dog> warfirine
2020-04-27T15:50:02 < Mangy_Dog> spelling
2020-04-27T15:50:16 < Mangy_Dog> which is why if you eat it it would kill you too
2020-04-27T15:50:35 < fenugrec> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rodenticide#Low_toxicity_rodenticides
2020-04-27T15:51:02 < Mangy_Dog> all rat poisons ive come across here in the uk have been warfirine based
2020-04-27T15:51:14 < fenugrec> that low-toxicity crap is the most common in some stores here
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2020-04-27T15:58:19 < mawk> rat poison is strychnine
2020-04-27T15:58:23 < mawk> at least all the one I've seen here
2020-04-27T15:58:45 < mawk> it's nice stuff
2020-04-27T15:58:48 < aandrew> I have a hard time believing that a bunch of cornstarch will do shit to a creature that routinely chews through concrete, but I suppose they’re just chewing that, not consuming it
2020-04-27T15:58:49 < mawk> Hitler used to inject it
2020-04-27T15:59:02 < aandrew> Warfarin here is most common
2020-04-27T15:59:11 < mawk> but I think it's banned now
2020-04-27T15:59:14 < mawk> people are still using it tho
2020-04-27T16:00:11 < karlp> classically ratpoison is strychnnine, but much more varied these days
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2020-04-27T16:07:48 < mawk> I have a friend that bought nux vomica nuts to extract strychnine from it
2020-04-27T16:07:52 < mawk> but he didn't dare take it
2020-04-27T16:08:09 < mawk> probably that's why he's still alive lol
2020-04-27T16:10:12 < aandrew> nux vomica sounds unpleasant
2020-04-27T16:10:31 < mawk> lol
2020-04-27T16:15:06 < karlp> strychnine's "safer" than fentonyl as far as the thresholds between recreational and death isn't is?
2020-04-27T16:15:35 < karlp> like, a _lot_ aiui, but haven't looked at that sort of stuff in years
2020-04-27T16:18:14 < MrMobius> wait are you gonna poison the rats with fentonyl?
2020-04-27T16:18:56 < karlp> no, was just talking about the "safety" of experiementing with strychnine vs other (ab)used drugs
2020-04-27T16:19:32 < karlp> I like this though, "The toxicity of strychnine in humans is not ethically studied,"
2020-04-27T16:20:50 < mawk> at least fentanyl is synthetic
2020-04-27T16:20:54 < mawk> so when you get it you know how much you have
2020-04-27T16:20:59 < mawk> but with nux vomica it's a plant
2020-04-27T16:21:13 < mawk> but I guess the "therapeutic" or rather recreational index is quite slim
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2020-04-27T16:51:47 < MrMobius> rats are easy to poison because they cant vomit
2020-04-27T16:56:27 < Thorn> The toxicity of masculinity in feminists is not ethically studied.
2020-04-27T17:00:59 < kakimir> just give rats amphetamines and watch rat society to fall apart
2020-04-27T17:02:15 < kakimir> how to terminate rs485
2020-04-27T17:02:27 < kakimir> I see a variety of implementations
2020-04-27T17:02:35 < kakimir> variety of resistor values
2020-04-27T17:03:00 < PaulFertser> Depends on your transmission line characteristics
2020-04-27T17:03:23 < kakimir> what is the deal with biasing?
2020-04-27T17:03:52 < PaulFertser> Since it's a multi-master protocol when all masters are idle nobody's driving it.
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2020-04-27T17:04:32 < kakimir> masters have biasing?
2020-04-27T17:04:43 < PaulFertser> Masters when transmitting push-pull it.
2020-04-27T17:05:26 < PaulFertser> When not transmitting probably some masters have biasing but it's likely with external components, not the PHY IC itself.
2020-04-27T17:05:47 < PaulFertser> kakimir: have you checked the datasheet for the PHY you have in mind?
2020-04-27T17:06:15 < kakimir> checked yes
2020-04-27T17:06:18 < kakimir> read - no
2020-04-27T17:06:51 < PaulFertser> You can look at example schematics without reading ;)
2020-04-27T17:07:29 < Thorn> kakimir https://www.analog.com/media/en/technical-documentation/application-notes/AN-960.pdf
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2020-04-27T17:09:29 < kakimir> does rs485 bus have a ground?
2020-04-27T17:09:39 < karlp> it has a "common reference" :)
2020-04-27T17:09:42 < kakimir> I thought it was just a twisted pair
2020-04-27T17:09:57 < kakimir> yes common
2020-04-27T17:09:58 < karlp> some people skip that and just assume that ground is ground, and it normally works for them
2020-04-27T17:10:18 < kakimir> so I need 3pin connector?
2020-04-27T17:10:23 < karlp> up to  you :)
2020-04-27T17:10:36 < karlp> plenty of stuff out there with just two :)
2020-04-27T17:10:49 < karlp> but you _should_ have three.
2020-04-27T17:10:55 < kakimir> if I understood how actual devices were deployed in the field
2020-04-27T17:11:22 < Streaker>  The allowable common-mode voltage is in the range −7V to +12V, i.e. ±7V on top of the 0-5V signal range. 
2020-04-27T17:11:25 < kakimir> how those are configured and what features might be useful
2020-04-27T17:11:27 < Streaker> from wiggypedia
2020-04-27T17:11:41 < karlp> whcih is why it ~normally "just works"
2020-04-27T17:12:13 < karlp> termination is normally ~optional too, unless you're really going for "fast"
2020-04-27T17:12:24 < karlp> line biasing is much more useful.
2020-04-27T17:12:45 < kakimir> what is "fast"?
2020-04-27T17:13:14 < PaulFertser> kakimir: are you sure fast is relevant there? Ringing can occur on any edge, no matter what the baud rate is I think.
2020-04-27T17:13:30 < kakimir> that is what I thought
2020-04-27T17:13:33 < karlp> well, depends whether you buy slew limited transceivers or not too...
2020-04-27T17:13:42 < kakimir> nope
2020-04-27T17:13:50 < karlp> buy the limited ones, magically get a) less EMI and b) no need for termination
2020-04-27T17:13:52 < kakimir> should I?
2020-04-27T17:14:04 < karlp> how fast do you want to go? :)
2020-04-27T17:14:13 < kakimir> what if another device doesn't have limited tranceiver?
2020-04-27T17:14:18 < kakimir> in the bus
2020-04-27T17:14:31 < Thorn> <kakimir> fast enough for pornhub
2020-04-27T17:14:35 < catphish> hey dudes
2020-04-27T17:15:00 < karlp> you're probably still fine, because even if it rings and rings, it's settled enough to get your data through unless you're going fast.
2020-04-27T17:15:13 < PaulFertser> kakimir: why do you not want to terminate?
2020-04-27T17:15:22 < catphish> my wares are come! looks pretty quality! https://i.imgur.com/LRLPVV4.jpg
2020-04-27T17:15:29 < karlp> kakimir: are you using rs485 for megabits over 20cm like scsi-1? or 19200 over 100m like fieldbuses?
2020-04-27T17:15:38 < Thorn> settling time depends on bus length
2020-04-27T17:15:56 < karlp> it's all very soft and squishy :)
2020-04-27T17:16:03 < kakimir> I think like.. 10meters
2020-04-27T17:16:19 < karlp> catphish: what are c4,5,6,7?
2020-04-27T17:16:19 < kakimir> and like 115200?
2020-04-27T17:16:53 < PaulFertser> kakimir: do you have a scope?
2020-04-27T17:17:00 < kakimir> ye
2020-04-27T17:17:00 < Thorn> catphish no ground plane?
2020-04-27T17:17:47 < kakimir> PaulFertser: before I get to scoping I need to make some design choices though 
2020-04-27T17:17:51 < PaulFertser> kakimir: connect your cable to your devices, start transmission, check for ringing, you'll see if you need termination.
2020-04-27T17:18:06 < PaulFertser> kakimir: is there any necessity to not include optional termination components?
2020-04-27T17:18:11 < catphish> Thorn: not on the top layer, no
2020-04-27T17:18:14 < karlp> alternatively: connect your cables, start your software, if it iworks, don't even bother getting the scope out....
2020-04-27T17:18:36 < PaulFertser> Oh no, what if it barely works and you'll get surprises later.
2020-04-27T17:18:37 < kakimir> PaulFertser: no
2020-04-27T17:18:42 < kakimir> just that I know what to add
2020-04-27T17:18:55 < karlp> PaulFertser: nah....
2020-04-27T17:18:56 < kakimir> that is the issue
2020-04-27T17:19:01 < PaulFertser> kakimir: even if it's just a screw terminal you can screw a through-hole resistor along with the wires if termination is needed ;)
2020-04-27T17:19:02 < catphish> karlp: C4,5,6,7 are the output from the power supply, just a big bank of large identical caps
2020-04-27T17:19:18 < kakimir> PaulFertser: I don't have THT resistors
2020-04-27T17:19:32 < kakimir> I have plenty of SMDs though
2020-04-27T17:20:14 < PaulFertser> kakimir: so add a footprint in parallel to the line, why not?
2020-04-27T17:20:20 < kakimir> yes
2020-04-27T17:20:46 < kakimir> there are industrial devices with rs485
2020-04-27T17:20:48 < karlp> kakimir: are you building the master or which end? ar eyou planning on using multi master?
2020-04-27T17:20:56 < kakimir> idk
2020-04-27T17:21:05 < karlp> well, work it out :)
2020-04-27T17:21:13 < karlp> you don'y want to have termination on every device...
2020-04-27T17:21:49 < karlp> commercial stuff ranges from "here's a resistor in the box for to use if you like" to "we have switches that enable/disable termination and biasing"
2020-04-27T17:21:50 < Thorn> or even biasing, it eats standard loads
2020-04-27T17:21:53 < PaulFertser> kakimir: industrial devices are likely to have optional termination already.
2020-04-27T17:22:08 < PaulFertser> Yes, what karlp says
2020-04-27T17:22:20 < kakimir> so there is industrial devices with rs485.. I assume there is some sort of way of doing things that makes installation a routine
2020-04-27T17:22:27 < kakimir> standards or stuff
2020-04-27T17:22:30 < karlp> yeah, wire it up and see if it works... :)
2020-04-27T17:22:33 < PaulFertser> kakimir: jumpers or switches.
2020-04-27T17:22:51 < karlp> and if it doesn't, swap A and B before you even bother looking at termination :)
2020-04-27T17:23:03 < kakimir> just for the termination?
2020-04-27T17:23:38 < karlp> we ship with biasing and termination on the master, nothing on slaves, and have premade cables with a special "tail" piece that incldues termination
2020-04-27T17:23:54 < kakimir> so a system of sorts
2020-04-27T17:24:02 < karlp> well duh,
2020-04-27T17:24:08 < karlp> you don't use rs485 by itself...
2020-04-27T17:24:15 < kakimir> ye
2020-04-27T17:25:06 < kakimir> does things like modbus and stuff have anything to say about physical layer?
2020-04-27T17:25:15 < zyp> no
2020-04-27T17:25:40 < zyp> people don't even agree on what A and B is
2020-04-27T17:25:51 < karlp> or how to number things :)
2020-04-27T17:25:57 < zyp> that too
2020-04-27T17:27:04 < PaulFertser> http://www.modbus.org/docs/Modbus_over_serial_line_V1.pdf page 20 physical layer
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2020-04-27T17:28:04 < zyp> PaulFertser, very detailed
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2020-04-27T17:28:40 < PaulFertser> And it even talks about line termination, yes.
2020-04-27T17:30:03 < PaulFertser> And mandatory pinout for RJ-45 and DE-9.
2020-04-27T17:30:37 < karlp> hahaha
2020-04-27T17:30:40 < karlp> riiiiight
2020-04-27T17:31:12 < karlp> I mean, yes, if you'r ebuilding new stuff, you should try and follow that :)
2020-04-27T17:31:26 < zyp> that RJ45 pinout is of course different from the one I picked :)
2020-04-27T17:32:49 < PaulFertser> It was released in 2002...
2020-04-27T17:33:08 < karlp> PaulFertser: as an attempt at steering the infinite cosmos of existing implementations :)
2020-04-27T17:33:37 < karlp> people ar emore likely to pick the pinout of devices used in their field that they want to be compatible with though
2020-04-27T17:33:55 < PaulFertser> It's a decision to be made on a case-by-case basis.
2020-04-27T17:34:02 < karlp> or just the good ol, "this is our proprietary shit, yolo"
2020-04-27T17:34:05 < PaulFertser> But that should still be a decision rather than inertia.
2020-04-27T17:35:16  * karlp loves gcc's fall through detection.... nont
2020-04-27T17:35:26 < karlp> already have "           /* Fall through to autoenable tcp mode *"
2020-04-27T17:35:33 < karlp> didn't get matched, get build warnings now.
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2020-04-27T18:06:35 < mawk> you know what's funny Steffanx 
2020-04-27T18:06:46 < mawk> I didn't know it was koningsdag
2020-04-27T18:06:55 < mawk> so my pharmacy is closed
2020-04-27T18:07:03 < mawk> now I have to walk to the hospital
2020-04-27T18:07:07 < mawk> hope it's open
2020-04-27T18:07:44 < strata> make sure you wear a mask and show your pass to the armed hajis with the isis armbands
2020-04-27T18:07:57 < mawk> lol
2020-04-27T18:08:09 < mawk> no one is wearing a mask here
2020-04-27T18:10:09 < Thorn> https://www.mentor.com/training/ondemand free 30 day subscription if someone hasn't seen it yet
2020-04-27T18:10:57 < Thorn> mawk king's day? when is your revolution? where is van Lenin?
2020-04-27T18:11:05 < mawk> lol
2020-04-27T18:11:19 < mawk> one king at a time
2020-04-27T18:11:31 < mawk> we already made louis' head roll
2020-04-27T18:11:44 < strata> MAniacal Wizard King 
2020-04-27T18:12:22 < mawk> lol
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2020-04-27T18:19:02 < Thorn> the only topics worth looking at seem to be https://www.mentor.com/training/courses/functional-verification-training-library and https://www.mentor.com/training/courses/high-speed-pcb-library
2020-04-27T18:24:21 < englishman> site isnt loading lol
2020-04-27T18:24:24 < englishman> thanks tho
2020-04-27T18:26:06 < Steffanx> What did you pay for it all. Excl components. catphish  
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2020-04-27T18:54:09 < catphish> it was expensive, around 160 GBP for x5 including the board, parts, assembly, shipping and tax
2020-04-27T18:56:01 < catphish> well the DC-DC works, yay
2020-04-27T18:57:42 < Steffanx> Oh thats more than  I expected. 20-30gpb for the part?
2020-04-27T18:57:56 < Steffanx> Parts
2020-04-27T18:58:34 < catphish> i don't have the numbers to hand, everything was pricey, the 4 layer board needlessly so
2020-04-27T19:00:27 < catphish> the tab locks :) https://i.imgur.com/81kBaQs.jpg just need a tool to remove it
2020-04-27T19:02:43 < BrainDamage> that's probably better than most ethernet solutions, at least the tab has little chance to snap off there
2020-04-27T19:03:29 < BrainDamage> I have a cable where the sleeve guard boot on the tab slided off forward and then snapped the tab by itself ...
2020-04-27T19:09:12 < catphish> now just to hope the ethernet actually works
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2020-04-27T19:15:03 < zyp> 160 GBP for complete assembled protos of a 4L design doesn't sound unreasonable to me
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2020-04-27T19:15:46 < Steffanx> i didnt say it was unreasonable, just more than i expected
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2020-04-27T19:16:55 < englishman> assembled? bargain
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2020-04-27T19:17:34 < zyp> I mean, look at it the other way, for qty5, that's 32GBP per device, how many stm32+ethernet board do you find for sale that's cheaper than that?
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2020-04-27T19:18:44 < zyp> hmm, there's some f7 nucleos with ethernet around that price
2020-04-27T19:18:47 < englishman> r1 upside down?
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2020-04-27T19:35:58 < catphish> englishman: r1 is indeed upside down, hopefully it's not a polarized film resistor
2020-04-27T19:36:29 < con3> catphish: you get polarized resistors?
2020-04-27T19:36:33  * con3 googles
2020-04-27T19:36:34 < catphish> con3: no
2020-04-27T19:36:47 < con3> catphish: fuck
2020-04-27T19:36:49 < con3> im an idiot
2020-04-27T19:36:52 < catphish> lol
2020-04-27T19:37:01 < catphish> also, now that i look again, i don't think it is upside down
2020-04-27T19:37:25 < con3> i always come on here right after i wake up and then say the stupidest shit
2020-04-27T19:37:29 < catphish> lol
2020-04-27T19:37:59 < con3> keep forgetting how sarcastic you guys can be and how gullible i can be
2020-04-27T19:38:01 < catphish> englishman, Steffanx: https://i.imgur.com/t31pi34.png
2020-04-27T19:38:27 < con3> catphish: how many layers is that pcb?
2020-04-27T19:38:27 < strata> con3: did you see microchip bought ST?
2020-04-27T19:38:27 < englishman> pcb long edge larger than 10cm?
2020-04-27T19:38:41 < con3> strata: ha! not falling for that one again!
2020-04-27T19:39:01 < catphish> con3: 4 layers
2020-04-27T19:39:16 < con3> catphish: why is it soo pricey...? 
2020-04-27T19:39:34 < catphish> 62 x 116mm
2020-04-27T19:39:46 < con3> ah
2020-04-27T19:39:55 < con3> wait
2020-04-27T19:40:04 < englishman> that usually bumps it up a lot no?
2020-04-27T19:40:17 < con3> thats still pricey
2020-04-27T19:40:25 < catphish> 1) i didn't cost optimize it 2) i didn't know 100x100 was a magic size, i'll remember that 3) i paid for a higher track precision and smaller drills (not sure if i needed to)
2020-04-27T19:40:41 < catphish> but yes, the board was a bit more than expected
2020-04-27T19:40:49 < con3> couldve sworn my 4 layer, larger pcb was cheaper, but it was simpler times (2019)
2020-04-27T19:41:02 < con3> 'the good ol days'
2020-04-27T19:41:13 < englishman> what options
2020-04-27T19:41:38 < englishman> im still only seeing $42 with leadfree
2020-04-27T19:41:51 < catphish> assembly was pretty cheap, but there were some setup costs for less common components that were disproportionate for making only 5 boards
2020-04-27T19:42:26 < catphish> https://i.imgur.com/6zrMyxV.png
2020-04-27T19:42:48 < englishman> o
2020-04-27T19:42:51 < englishman> hole size
2020-04-27T19:42:52 < englishman> rip
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2020-04-27T19:43:07 < englishman> you certainly didnt need it
2020-04-27T19:43:09 < catphish> englishman: yeah, i don't know if i even needed that
2020-04-27T19:43:20 < englishman> lesson learned
2020-04-27T19:43:25 < catphish> i think i confused radius and diameter or something
2020-04-27T19:43:29 < englishman> DFM pays
2020-04-27T19:43:40 < Streaker> are 0.2mm holes mechanically drilled or do they use frickin lasers?
2020-04-27T19:43:43 < catphish> and even if i didn't, i'd have designed with bigger holed if i'd known how expensive it was
2020-04-27T19:43:51 < catphish> *holes
2020-04-27T19:43:53 < englishman> 0.2mm is drilled, its finished hole size
2020-04-27T19:44:08 < catphish> anyway the results are nice :)
2020-04-27T19:44:11 < englishman> my pcb guy says the drill bits last about 1000 holes
2020-04-27T19:44:24 < Streaker> that's 999 more than I expected
2020-04-27T19:44:51 < catphish> st-link seems to be able to power and connect to my board :) now just to see if ethernet works :)
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2020-04-27T20:23:42 < fenugrec> heh, I had monster 450 x 170mm boards made for less than that
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2020-04-27T20:43:55 < boddax_> i got +o also ?
2020-04-27T20:44:12 -!- mode/##stm32 [+o boddax_] by ChanServ
2020-04-27T20:44:53 <@boddax_> all right
2020-04-27T20:55:53 < Steffanx> Don't you love chanserv?
2020-04-27T20:56:48 <@boddax_> very lovely chanserver 
2020-04-27T20:57:24 < Steffanx> I think you can actually see the one that instructed chanserv to do that
2020-04-27T20:57:51 < zyp> yeah, that makes it less fun
2020-04-27T20:57:58 < Steffanx> :P
2020-04-27T21:00:21 < catphish> fun fact: my ethernet connectivity works!!
2020-04-27T21:01:03 < catphish> i'm almost in disbelief that everything i designed works as it's supposed to
2020-04-27T21:01:09 < zyp> told you it wasn't so hard ;)
2020-04-27T21:01:11 <@boddax_> analyzed by wireshark?
2020-04-27T21:01:31 < catphish> well i already coded an IP stack on the nucleo
2020-04-27T21:01:46 < catphish> transferred it to my new board and it works the same, i see DHCP requests and responses
2020-04-27T21:02:21 <@boddax_> wich speed ?
2020-04-27T21:02:37 < zyp> 100 Mb/s
2020-04-27T21:02:52 < catphish> yeah, the easy speed :)
2020-04-27T21:03:08 < catphish> that's all stm32 can do, right?
2020-04-27T21:03:13 <@boddax_> can count packet errors?
2020-04-27T21:03:29 < catphish> now that i haven't done yet
2020-04-27T21:03:38 < catphish> i'm just going on "works functionally"
2020-04-27T21:05:31 <@boddax_> that good ..only tcp stack?
2020-04-27T21:05:54 < catphish> ping will tell me if there's any loss, i'll run some now
2020-04-27T21:07:10 < zyp> catphish, it can do 10 Mb/s also :)
2020-04-27T21:07:16 < catphish> my IP stack is a bit "bespoke", ie it does the specific things this application requires, namely, UDP, ARP but only to the gateway, and responses, DNS, but only for a single host
2020-04-27T21:08:05 < zyp> still more comprehensive than the one I wrote for my workstuff
2020-04-27T21:08:08 < catphish> basically it comes online, gets an IP, maintains a cache of the gateway's MAC and the IP for my server, sends greetings to the server, then responds to UDP requests
2020-04-27T21:08:47 < emeb> OK - here's a funny little thing: If you use CubeMX to configure an STM32F722 and try to use SAI1_A it will tell you that the only thing you can do is SPDIF.
2020-04-27T21:08:55 < catphish> the huge majority of that only exists so that a remote server can find it :)
2020-04-27T21:09:01 < emeb> But looking at the DS and RM I don't see that limitation anywhere.
2020-04-27T21:09:04 < catphish> after that, it's a dumb stateless UDP responder
2020-04-27T21:09:30 < emeb> So I tried it out - seems to work for I2S just fine, as long as it's synced up to SAI2_B
2020-04-27T21:09:42 < catphish> i baked in ICMP ping because it felt right
2020-04-27T21:09:44 < zyp> catphish, mine autoselects an IP based on board serial number stored in OTP
2020-04-27T21:09:45 < emeb> Could it be that there's a bug in CubeMX?
2020-04-27T21:10:06 < catphish> also, what i described is the goal, it's only about 50% done :)
2020-04-27T21:10:22 < catphish> dhcp works now though :)
2020-04-27T21:10:43 < catphish> arping the gateway next should be easy
2020-04-27T21:12:12 <@boddax_> is that the project to open locks with card?
2020-04-27T21:12:23 < PaulFertser> zyp: why did you have to write your own stack and not use uIP or lwIP?
2020-04-27T21:12:39 < Steffanx> Heh, emeb I used the f722 for some oidio with 3x I2S, but I didn't use SAI1_A
2020-04-27T21:12:54 < Steffanx> 4x I2S.
2020-04-27T21:13:22 < catphish> boddax_: yes
2020-04-27T21:13:24 < zyp> PaulFertser, because it's faster to write a thin IP/UDP wrapper than to integrate a whole library
2020-04-27T21:13:41 < Steffanx> Not impossible the cube is wrong ofcourse
2020-04-27T21:14:01 < catphish> PaulFertser: i did look at lwIP, but i hated the way cubemx integrated it
2020-04-27T21:14:23 < catphish> i looked at uIP, but decided if i wrote my own i could debug it easier
2020-04-27T21:14:41 < Steffanx> Don't use the cube ...
2020-04-27T21:14:42 < PaulFertser> zyp: hm, for me writing even a minimal stack would be considerable challenge.
2020-04-27T21:14:56 < catphish> it's taken a few days, is probably inferior and pointless, but it's been a worthwhile experience
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2020-04-27T21:15:25 < zyp> PaulFertser, I'm only using UDP for utility stuff (bootloader, config, monitoring) next to an industrial ethernet stack for all the realtime comms
2020-04-27T21:15:46 < zyp> before I added IP, I had a plain ethernet bootloader protocol using a custom ethertype
2020-04-27T21:15:56 < zyp> adding a set of IP and UDP headers is not much work
2020-04-27T21:15:59 < PaulFertser> catphish: idk, I used lwIP and before that uIP without any integration from cubemx. Basically, MAC level send/receive is needed for particular peripheral and other than that it was functioning nicely. (uIP is more limited, not supporting delayed ACKs for TCP).
2020-04-27T21:16:14 < emeb> Steffanx: Cool - thanks. I've got a 3yr old product with 2chl I2S via SAI2_B working
2020-04-27T21:16:32 < emeb> But was always frustrated that I couldn't get full-duplex I2S via SAI.
2020-04-27T21:16:39 < PaulFertser> zyp: I see, in this case sounds reasonable. It's just that I had to provide HTTP right from the start.
2020-04-27T21:16:45 < emeb> But now I'm trying it on the bench and it seems to work.
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2020-04-27T21:16:57 < zyp> PaulFertser, TCP is a lot more complex than UDP
2020-04-27T21:17:12 < catphish> now i have a functional ethernet stack, i might look at using lwIP again
2020-04-27T21:17:18 < catphish> but i don't need TCP
2020-04-27T21:17:20 < PaulFertser> zyp: I know :)
2020-04-27T21:17:48 < catphish> but now that i do need DHCP and DNS, i'm not 100% sure my own code will be the best choice
2020-04-27T21:17:54 < Steffanx> Memory management is the annoying part of lwip imho.
2020-04-27T21:17:59 < catphish> however, since i've written a lot of it, i might as well try
2020-04-27T21:18:24 < catphish> the nice thing about writing my own is that i can just statically allocate the miniscule amount of memory that i absolutely need
2020-04-27T21:18:25 < PaulFertser> Steffanx: iirc you just give its allocator an area to work with.
2020-04-27T21:18:38 < catphish> but if lwIP has its own allocator, ideal
2020-04-27T21:18:42 < Steffanx> Yes, but out of memory situations are sometimes annoying
2020-04-27T21:18:47 < catphish> 760 packets transmitted, 760 received, 0% packet loss, time 760191ms
2020-04-27T21:18:50 < catphish> woo
2020-04-27T21:19:07 < PaulFertser> lwIP has two allocators, one for packet data another aux. And you can give area for the first and malloc for the second. Or something like that.
2020-04-27T21:19:41 < catphish> in any case, this mini stack of mine seems to be working so far
2020-04-27T21:19:57 < Steffanx> But one shouldn't be using lpc for ethernet crap anyway. Where the MAC dma can only use a certain RAM region
2020-04-27T21:20:03 < catphish> the main thing is watching out for overflows, there are size fields everywhere
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2020-04-27T21:20:32 < catphish> but still hurrah for my hardware working so far!
2020-04-27T21:21:08 < catphish> only the card reader input and magnetic lock MOSFET output to test now
2020-04-27T21:21:32 < zyp> Steffanx, lpc?
2020-04-27T21:22:04 < catphish> boddax_: FYI: https://i.imgur.com/PZeHCSp.jpg https://i.imgur.com/SBSkGtd.jpg
2020-04-27T21:22:20 < catphish> came out pretty neat :)
2020-04-27T21:22:49 < catphish> Q1 looks so pitiful, most of these systems have huge relays
2020-04-27T21:23:07 <@boddax_> very nice ..this board is made with pick n place machine?
2020-04-27T21:23:14 < catphish> yes, by jlcpcb
2020-04-27T21:23:26 < englishman> maybe you're about to find out why
2020-04-27T21:23:34 < catphish> their skills far exceed mine :)
2020-04-27T21:23:39 < catphish> englishman: indeed!
2020-04-27T21:23:50 < catphish> i'll see if it ends up melted :)
2020-04-27T21:24:19 < Steffanx> Yes lpc1788 zyp
2020-04-27T21:24:24 < PaulFertser> In that board I was making with lwIP webserver I had 404 page with title "Fuck the war" (in russian), the board was for some military (defense afaik) equipment, no idea if anybody saw that.
2020-04-27T21:25:06 < zyp> Steffanx, fun fact: they use the same ethernet core as stm32 :)
2020-04-27T21:25:27 < Steffanx> Hah OK. Makes me wonder why they did
2020-04-27T21:25:36 < Steffanx> the dma crap
2020-04-27T21:26:06 < zyp> I don't know what dma crap you refer to, sounds like they cheaped out on the bus arbiter
2020-04-27T21:26:52 < Steffanx> Nah they have multiple ram regions. Where the MAC dma can only access one of them. Which is ~32Kbyte of ram
2020-04-27T21:27:01 < zyp> exactly
2020-04-27T21:27:28 < zyp> the bus arbiter is the shit that sits between multiple masters and multiple slaves, a full crossbar would let all masters access all slaves
2020-04-27T21:28:25 < Steffanx> NXP is a big fan of multiple RAM regions. The joy.
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2020-04-27T21:29:39 < zyp> stm32 doesn't let all masters access all slaves either
2020-04-27T21:30:19 < Steffanx> Oh, but I never had issues with that so far.
2020-04-27T21:31:51 < catphish> one irritating thing about this design is that it runs on a battery, if the battery gets below 7v (way too low a cutoff for a 12v battery), it will power down, but the moment it does, the voltage will rise, it will power up again, engage the magnet, and enter an unpleasant infinite loop of battery killing
2020-04-27T21:33:15 <@boddax_> you mean flow trough ram regions ?
2020-04-27T21:33:50 < catphish> if there's a v2, i'll remember to install a mains voltage detector, and only boot after a UVLO when mains voltage is present
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2020-04-27T21:39:54 < Streaker> catphish: you can't use the STM32's brownout reset to handle this?
2020-04-27T21:40:28 < Streaker> since it has hysteresis and can detect the rising battery voltage condition
2020-04-27T21:43:52 < catphish> i don't think so, there's no brownout, the DC-DC has a UVLO
2020-04-27T21:43:57 < mawk> I bought IPA in a shady chinese shop
2020-04-27T21:44:01 < mawk> but it smells fake
2020-04-27T21:44:04 < mawk> how can I test it
2020-04-27T21:44:08 < mawk> density ?
2020-04-27T21:44:35 < mawk> put 1mL on a scale, should be 0.785mg
2020-04-27T21:44:51 < Cracki> gram but yes
2020-04-27T21:45:01 < catphish> put 100ml on a scale, more accurate :)
2020-04-27T21:45:09 < Cracki> you could test its boiling point and freezing point
2020-04-27T21:45:27 < Cracki> if you can make a vacuum, you got another axis
2020-04-27T21:45:45 < catphish> be sure to taste it, alcohol tastes ncie
2020-04-27T21:46:00 < Cracki> 82.6 celsius boiling point
2020-04-27T21:46:29 < Cracki> melts at -89... so you might not be able to distinguish it from antifreeze
2020-04-27T21:46:54 < Cracki> it will probably contain something awful tasting tho
2020-04-27T21:49:27 < Cracki> molar mass 60 if you care to turn it into vapor and measure the volume :>
2020-04-27T21:50:10 < zyp> catphish, jlcpcb quality looks better than I'd expect from the rumors I've heard about shitty silk
2020-04-27T21:50:11 < Cracki> or gas w/e
2020-04-27T21:50:17 < zyp> looks reasonably decent in your pics
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2020-04-27T21:53:57 < catphish> zyp: looks flawless to me
2020-04-27T21:54:36 < Steffanx> No, compare it to some of zyps PCBs 
2020-04-27T21:54:41 < catphish> they have different processes for 4 layer boards and $2 boards though
2020-04-27T21:54:45 < Steffanx> The  you can see its not flawless ;)
2020-04-27T21:54:52 < Steffanx> Then*
2020-04-27T21:55:02 < mawk> it's not ethanol Cracki they sell it pure
2020-04-27T21:55:14 < zyp> Steffanx, would need a closer up photo to compare :p
2020-04-27T21:55:14 < Steffanx> Mr d had those PCBs made i think
2020-04-27T21:55:16 < mawk> but anyway reala pure alcool is tasteless and all
2020-04-27T21:55:35 < mawk> but since it's an azeotrope with water around 99% it's hard to get real pure
2020-04-27T21:55:55 < Cracki> boil it boil it
2020-04-27T21:56:10 < Cracki> gas density is ~2.7 vs 1.225 for air, i'll stay down
2020-04-27T21:56:15 < catphish> and now i'm going to drink to my success
2020-04-27T21:56:27 < zyp> enjoy
2020-04-27T21:56:27 < Cracki> some nice cold IPA
2020-04-27T21:56:36 < catphish> (stupid ethernet port placement excepted)
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2020-04-27T21:57:13 < mawk> I measured 0.55 density, it's supposed to be 0.786
2020-04-27T21:57:17 < mawk> guess my scale is shitty
2020-04-27T21:57:35 < mawk> or the chinese robbed me 
2020-04-27T21:57:37 < mawk> at least it s not cut with water
2020-04-27T21:58:40 < zyp> Steffanx, hmm, you're right, looking at my pcb photos there's still a difference
2020-04-27T21:58:40 < Cracki> how much did you measure?
2020-04-27T21:58:53 < zyp> e.g. https://bin.jvnv.net/file/3QJ4w.JPG or https://bin.jvnv.net/file/E08pl.JPG
2020-04-27T21:59:02 < Cracki> I'd measure the whole bottle full, then maybe fill it into something else to measure empty bottle too
2020-04-27T21:59:28 < zyp> but still, the jlcpcb silk isn't terrible, I'd say it looks pretty normal
2020-04-27T22:00:08 < zyp> compared to e.g. this: https://bin.jvnv.net/file/TgK0Q.JPG
2020-04-27T22:00:28 < Cracki> last one is jlc? what are the prev 2 ones?
2020-04-27T22:00:54 < zyp> no, catphish's photos are jlcpcb
2020-04-27T22:00:58 < Cracki> ah
2020-04-27T22:01:06 < Cracki> very decent
2020-04-27T22:01:12 < zyp> purple one of mine is something I did at oshpark like 8 years ago
2020-04-27T22:01:24 < zyp> and the green ones are dongspcb
2020-04-27T22:02:00 < Steffanx> See that is flawless silkscreen :)
2020-04-27T22:03:03 < Cracki> not splotchy at all. from the others you can see they're raised up a little, like paintball vs inkjet
2020-04-27T22:05:24 < mawk> 20mL Cracki 
2020-04-27T22:05:28 < mawk> I have a mg scale
2020-04-27T22:05:28 < Steffanx> oshpark isnt THAT bad anymore.
2020-04-27T22:05:36 < mawk> to measure what you might know
2020-04-27T22:05:47 < Cracki> check with tap water instead of ipa?
2020-04-27T22:06:32 < Cracki> hm then it's either broken very badly or it's right and the chinese chinked you
2020-04-27T22:07:24 < Cracki> I'd go with the latter :D
2020-04-27T22:07:44 < Cracki> can you be confident in the volume measurement?
2020-04-27T22:13:42 < mawk> yeah I will confirm it later
2020-04-27T22:13:48 < mawk> I have to go buy some stuff
2020-04-27T22:14:34 < con3> zyp got any pictures of the whole pcb -> https://bin.jvnv.net/file/E08pl.JPG
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2020-04-27T22:28:24 < Steffanx> must be this con3: https://bin.jvnv.net/f/Mv7rw.JPG
2020-04-27T22:30:17 < Steffanx> I was for 99% sure it was his lp43 board. So I did a google image search for "zyp lpc43 jvnv" and there it was :D
2020-04-27T22:31:03 < zyp> yep
2020-04-27T22:31:36 < Steffanx> your last design in eagle?
2020-04-27T22:31:52 < zyp> second last IIRC
2020-04-27T22:33:30 < zyp> https://bin.jvnv.net/file/4rAPs.JPG <- I think this was the last
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2020-04-27T22:52:01 < con3> nice!
2020-04-27T22:52:37 < catphish> why are half of them incomplete?
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2020-04-27T23:20:46 < Steffanx> We'll never know
2020-04-27T23:21:45 < catphish> i dont think i will ever understand how APR on loans is calculated: https://i.imgur.com/IxuDGTN.png
2020-04-27T23:22:23 < karlp> that's probably "interest free" but "we're charign x% loan issuance fee, plus y$ statement charges"
2020-04-27T23:22:34 < karlp> and they're required to state the effective APR with fees included?
2020-04-27T23:22:35 < catphish> do they just choose a number at random and call it "APR" and put it in the advert for no reason
2020-04-27T23:22:42 < Cracki> "annual payment rate"?
2020-04-27T23:22:44 < karlp> that's how it is here at least.
2020-04-27T23:23:04 < Cracki> ah, annual percentage rate
2020-04-27T23:23:23 < catphish> karlp: well, i believe technically you're right, it should be the total % of interest + fees
2020-04-27T23:23:31 < catphish> but... in this case it's just nonsense
2020-04-27T23:23:42 < Cracki> wow wikipedia's article has not a single mathematical expression in the whole introduction
2020-04-27T23:24:42 < catphish> i *suspect* that APR is based on the case where you decide not to pay it back in 3 months at all and revert to their default loan rate for a whole year
2020-04-27T23:24:47 < catphish> but that's dumb
2020-04-27T23:25:17 < Cracki> furlongs on the hogshead
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2020-04-27T23:29:04 < catphish> TIL of the FFF alternative to the metric system: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/FFF_system
2020-04-27T23:30:23 < mawk> lol
2020-04-27T23:30:27 < mawk> it looks like a joke system
2020-04-27T23:30:32 < mawk> "furlong" what unit name is that
2020-04-27T23:30:34 < Cracki> > BTU per foot-fathom per degree Fahrenheit per fortnight
2020-04-27T23:30:46 < mawk> ah it's a joke
2020-04-27T23:30:49 < mawk> I was afraid
2020-04-27T23:30:59 < mawk> whtever frankenstein monster the imperial system may have engendered
2020-04-27T23:31:02 < Cracki> you can take it seriously. I'm sure some rocket scientists do
2020-04-27T23:31:20 < catphish> it's a joke, but the units are real
2020-04-27T23:31:32 < Cracki> knuth came up with some fun things too
2020-04-27T23:32:20 < karlp> catphish: I'd still suspect there's some legislation involved :)
2020-04-27T23:32:57 < englishman> catphish: sometimes "pay no interest" means literally that, you pay just the principal, interest still accumulates.
2020-04-27T23:34:08 < zyp> catphish, edge boards only have the inside switches
2020-04-27T23:34:51 < zyp> i.e. one for the corner boards and two for the side boards
2020-04-27T23:35:51 < catphish> zyp: oh, that makes sense
2020-04-27T23:37:56 < zyp> it's an 8x8 scan matrix of switches, but they're mounted 1-2-2-2-1 on a 5x5 matrix of boards
2020-04-27T23:38:07 < zyp> so the outer row/col of the edge boards are unused
2020-04-27T23:39:03 < zyp> https://bin.jvnv.net/file/GY3s4.png <- concept drawing
2020-04-27T23:44:02 < catphish> what does it do?
2020-04-27T23:44:09 < zyp> https://bin.jvnv.net/file/XLDNc.JPG
2020-04-27T23:44:24 < zyp> https://bin.jvnv.net/file/jm7Kb.JPG
2020-04-27T23:44:48 < zyp> and that's about how far I got with it before china made a better product
2020-04-27T23:45:30 < catphish> if anything i'm more confused
2020-04-27T23:45:51 < catphish> i'd understand if the boards were mounted at 45 degrees
2020-04-27T23:46:01 < zyp> https://www.gamo2.com/en/index.php?dispatch=products.view&product_id=310
2020-04-27T23:46:18 < zyp> I actually got offered a discounted prototype of that, so I bought it
2020-04-27T23:46:56 < catphish> wouldn't you need to mount the boards at 45 degrees to put large buttons over 4 of them?
2020-04-27T23:46:57 < Steffanx> Its in the attic now?
2020-04-27T23:47:16 < zyp> don't have an attic, it's in a box in the storeroom
2020-04-27T23:47:22 < Steffanx> ;)
2020-04-27T23:47:42 < zyp> catphish, it's a clone of this: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jubeat
2020-04-27T23:48:08 < catphish> looks fun
2020-04-27T23:48:11 < zyp> it is
2020-04-27T23:48:18 < catphish> but still, are the boards supposed to be rotated 45 degrees
2020-04-27T23:48:23 < catphish> thats the only way it makes sense :(
2020-04-27T23:48:58 < catphish> (clockwise in all cases)
2020-04-27T23:49:01 < zyp> https://bin.jvnv.net/file/GY3s4.png <- not 45 degrees, just like the purple outline here
2020-04-27T23:49:44 < zyp> the boards are designed to remain invisible, the buttons would have a bottom plate angled from the top
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2020-04-27T23:50:01 < catphish> interesting, but why not just rotate the PCBs 45 degrees clockwise?
2020-04-27T23:50:13 < zyp> because they wouldn't be invisible that way
2020-04-27T23:50:45 < zyp> there's a display under the buttons, buttons are transparent
2020-04-27T23:51:25 < catphish> ooh, that makes sense then
2020-04-27T23:51:38 < zyp> see e.g. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LSGOAkyFW7I for gameplay
2020-04-27T23:52:09 < catphish> looks pretty cool
2020-04-27T23:53:14 < catphish> i wouldn't have the first clue how to manufacture something like the transparent buttons
2020-04-27T23:53:42 < zyp> never got that far but I figured they could be milled from thick acrylic or something
2020-04-27T23:55:23 < zyp> anyway, the one I bought turned out to be a lot better than mine ever would, so that project died :)
2020-04-27T23:55:37 < zyp> and I also got the lcd monitor a size too small
2020-04-27T23:55:48 < zyp> so now I got a bunch of parts for that in a box somewhere
2020-04-27T23:57:02 < zyp> anybody need a monitor in a wooden frame? https://bin.jvnv.net/file/7JytN.JPG https://bin.jvnv.net/file/Kh5rM.JPG
2020-04-27T23:57:10 < zyp> 22"
2020-04-27T23:58:20 < strata> heh that's cool
2020-04-27T23:58:29 < zyp> https://bin.jvnv.net/file/p0Yu4.JPG
2020-04-27T23:59:49 < zyp> I figure maybe one day I get bored I'll dig out the parts, get some glass and try making one of those smart mirrors that people were dicking around with
--- Day changed Tue Apr 28 2020
2020-04-28T00:00:58 < catphish> oh, it's one large display?
2020-04-28T00:01:08 < catphish> for some reason i assumed they were individual
2020-04-28T00:01:12 < catphish> but that's mad
2020-04-28T00:01:30 < zyp> yeah, just a bunch of magic in fromt of a regular lcd
2020-04-28T00:02:46 < catphish> should have used an apple 5k display, then your product would be superior ;)
2020-04-28T00:03:57 < strata> no it would be warranty void
2020-04-28T00:04:33 < strata> and as soon as a new updated OSX comes out, it would detect it's not in its original chassis and brick itself
2020-04-28T00:05:10 < catphish> lol
2020-04-28T00:12:23 < catphish> "made from the material of world-class rubber, whose standard is higher than arcade, with much longer life, much stronger elasticity and the feeling of it is much better than arcade"
2020-04-28T00:12:39 < catphish> seems like it would take a lot of effort to get a good feel to the buttons
2020-04-28T00:13:20 < zyp> I think I've got three generations of the rubber switches or something
2020-04-28T00:17:13 < karlp> catphish: what are those push connectors you chose?
2020-04-28T00:18:37 < catphish> https://www.mouser.co.uk/ProductDetail/651-1792915
2020-04-28T00:18:52 < catphish> https://www.mouser.co.uk/ProductDetail/651-1792863
2020-04-28T00:21:16 < Steffanx> The moneyed westerner connector
2020-04-28T00:21:59 < catphish> i thought they were cheap :'(
2020-04-28T00:22:45 < zyp> looks cheap to me
2020-04-28T00:22:55 < qyx> they are cheap
2020-04-28T00:22:56 < catphish> the ones i wanted were wago, but those were expensive, and harder to source
2020-04-28T00:23:23 < Cracki> not sure what you're particular about to choose them. you can get dirt cheap terminal blocks from china of course, and less cheap but good ones too
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2020-04-28T00:23:34 < Cracki> yes wago really is moneyed westerner
2020-04-28T00:23:57 < karlp> Cracki: find those push button ones in cheap china clone then please :)
2020-04-28T00:23:57 < catphish> well, i designed the board with 5mm holes and plenty of space, figured i could just use any terminal blocks
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2020-04-28T00:24:14 < karlp> 5mm screw terminals, sure, cheap as shit
2020-04-28T00:24:15 < catphish> those were chosen largely because they were in stock
2020-04-28T00:24:20 < Cracki> right. the ones I usually use have screw terminals tho
2020-04-28T00:24:25 < catphish> and i wanted to try push terminals
2020-04-28T00:24:44 < Cracki> there are plug in types too, where you screw onto a plug and the socket takes that then
2020-04-28T00:24:48 < catphish> i always struggle knowing how much to torque cheap screw terminals 
2020-04-28T00:24:59 < Cracki> :P give them a try then
2020-04-28T00:25:20 < qyx> I hate screw terminals
2020-04-28T00:25:23 < qyx> they are like goto
2020-04-28T00:25:33 < qyx> they shuld have been ded long before they existed
2020-04-28T00:25:47 < Cracki> I give them just enough torque that I can't yank the wires out with just two fingers
2020-04-28T00:26:24 < Cracki> what's your terminal of choice, qyx?
2020-04-28T00:27:17  * catphish wonders if Steffanx is the most monied westerner of all
2020-04-28T00:31:53 < kakimir> ofc
2020-04-28T00:32:00 < kakimir> he is engineer pro
2020-04-28T00:32:59 < Thorn> what data width is normal for ddr3 ICs? 16 or 32 bits?
2020-04-28T00:33:09 < Steffanx> not even close i bet, catphish
2020-04-28T00:34:44 < zyp> Thorn, seems to vary
2020-04-28T00:34:52 < Steffanx> Unless I won the lottery catphish 
2020-04-28T00:35:04 < Steffanx> 🐈 🐟 
2020-04-28T00:35:21  * catphish wonders how much lottery money would be needed to be the richest folk here
2020-04-28T00:35:31 < zyp> Thorn, I think 16 is common, seen a bunch of boards using two 16-bit modules to get a 32-bit wide memory
2020-04-28T00:35:32 < catphish> some have some pretty expensive toys :)
2020-04-28T00:35:48 < zyp> Thorn, I also think dimms are often using 8x8 for 64
2020-04-28T00:36:04 < Thorn> 8x 8-bit chips?
2020-04-28T00:36:09 < zyp> yes
2020-04-28T00:36:10 < Thorn> interesting
2020-04-28T00:36:19 < zyp> but 4x16 probably also exists
2020-04-28T00:36:22 < qyx> what are you innovatig Thorn 
2020-04-28T00:36:42 < qyx> stm32mp1?
2020-04-28T00:36:48 < zyp> and either of those probably exist as dual rank as well, i.e. 8x8x2 and 4x16x2
2020-04-28T00:36:54 < Thorn> my understanding of mp1 docs is it supports 16 bits per memory chip for a total of 2 chips
2020-04-28T00:37:16 < zyp> why would it care about the number of chips?
2020-04-28T00:37:42 < Thorn> something having to do with flyby topology
2020-04-28T00:37:56 < zyp> if it can do four bytelanes, it shouldn't matter whether you hook it up to 1x32, 2x16 or 4x8
2020-04-28T00:38:19 < zyp> I think flyby topology has more to do with number of ranks
2020-04-28T00:39:03 < Thorn> qyx mp1 and/or zynq if I can find enough time & money
2020-04-28T00:39:10 < karlp> I thought it was to do with timing forgiveness
2020-04-28T00:39:23 < karlp> who's a moneyed russ now hey?
2020-04-28T00:40:41 < kakimir> moneyed rus
2020-04-28T00:40:51 < zyp> ah, no, you're right, fly by is clock/address/command/control
2020-04-28T00:42:03 < zyp> and write levelling is timing adjustment of the data lines so that the data arrives at the same time as the clock, ok, that makes sense
2020-04-28T00:42:07 < catphish> since my ethernet and power supply worked, i guess i won't need that scope this week after all :)
2020-04-28T00:43:02 < catphish> what's everyone else building right now?
2020-04-28T00:44:20 < zyp> I started on that usb-c crosspoint board the other day, but I haven't gotten further than this yet: https://bin.jvnv.net/file/ecbTn.png
2020-04-28T00:44:25 < qyx> nothing
2020-04-28T00:44:38 < qyx> documenting a work project
2020-04-28T00:45:03 < qyx> and finally a subrack parts arrived today
2020-04-28T00:45:12 < englishman> have to rewire the lights https://i.imgur.com/D1N2Ar5.jpg
2020-04-28T00:45:22 < qyx> zyp: :D
2020-04-28T00:45:40  * karlp was telling myself to push the button on ordering this hub autism instead of just stalling it
2020-04-28T00:45:49 < karlp> other than that, piles of software bullshit.
2020-04-28T00:46:28 < karlp> grant applications tomorrow I guess.
2020-04-28T00:46:41 < qyx> englishman: pepper?
2020-04-28T00:46:51 < englishman> lots of peppers
2020-04-28T00:46:58 < karlp> get some gubmint money to hire some students for the summer whose normal summer jobs all evaporated
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2020-04-28T00:48:01 < zyp> strictly speaking I only need three USB-C-connectors (upstream, downstream, monitor), i.e. six lanes, so I'm considering hooking the remaining two lanes to SMA connectors instead
2020-04-28T00:48:17 < zyp> (since the crosspoint switch is 8x8)
2020-04-28T00:48:37 < Steffanx> Better rename to zypimjr 
2020-04-28T00:48:43 < Steffanx> Zypimir damnit
2020-04-28T00:48:53 < zyp> heh
2020-04-28T00:49:27 < zyp> or maybe I should do one set of SMAs and one SATA connector for maximum flexibility
2020-04-28T00:49:39 < zyp> that's actually an even better idea
2020-04-28T00:50:02 < Steffanx> catphish: All boring here. Just rewiring the control box of my cnc after replacing all the control hw.
2020-04-28T00:50:34 < Steffanx> SATA?
2020-04-28T00:51:21 < zyp> yeah, ref. earlier blogging about cheap connector/cables for generic multi-gigabit signals
2020-04-28T00:51:51 < Steffanx> Will you add a USB connector for something that does not do USB too? :D
2020-04-28T00:52:04 < zyp> SATA cables are cheap off the shelf components that are 6 Gb/s capable
2020-04-28T00:52:25 < zyp> well, duh, usb-c is designed from scratch to be able to do other things than usb :)
2020-04-28T00:52:53 < Steffanx> Was more thinking about microusb or usb b or whatever not usb c 
2020-04-28T00:53:16 < zyp> meh, what's the point
2020-04-28T00:53:43 < qyx> englishman: I did some tomatoes with my own seeds, 50% of them sprout up, seeds were 3y old
2020-04-28T00:53:51 < zyp> I'll probably never design anything more with microusb
2020-04-28T00:53:55 < qyx> 2.5y actaually
2020-04-28T00:54:03 < englishman> sounds pretty good
2020-04-28T00:54:11 < catphish> Steffanx: CNC control sounds pretty cool, what controller?
2020-04-28T00:54:18 < englishman> how was the soil temp
2020-04-28T00:54:44 < qyx> 24 for the first 3 days, then the same as outdoors :P
2020-04-28T00:55:34 < englishman> still too cold to put plants outside here, plus wind was 75km/h today
2020-04-28T00:55:41 < englishman> we have spinach outside but bring them in at night
2020-04-28T00:56:27 < zyp> I might do usb-a if I'm designing something with dedicated host ports, but anything else would probably be usb-c
2020-04-28T00:56:35 < qyx> englishman: https://i.imgur.com/mHbQqXc.png
2020-04-28T00:57:46 < qyx> my grow lights disappeared on their way from china
2020-04-28T00:59:28 < Thorn> wtf why so expensive https://lcsc.com/product-detail/SDRAM_Micron-Tech-MT41K512M16VRN-107-IT-P_C477950.html
2020-04-28T00:59:34 < zyp> micro-b is still ok-ish, but the usb2-only simplified usb-c connectors are not really more inconvenient to put on a board and the only complexity difference are the addition of the two CC pulldowns
2020-04-28T01:00:03 < zyp> and both usb-c ports in other products and usb-c cables are now getting pretty ubiquitous
2020-04-28T01:00:22 < Thorn> oh wait that's a whole GB
2020-04-28T01:00:29 < Thorn> half a GB is reasonable https://lcsc.com/product-detail/SDRAM_Micron-Tech-MT41K256M16TW-107-P_C253882.html
2020-04-28T01:00:56 < karlp> big price difference
2020-04-28T01:02:48 < catphish> does USB C happily support legacy USB speed profiles (simple 2 wire full speed)?
2020-04-28T01:02:48 < Thorn> 1GB seems to be rare and unusual (but micron actually has one 2GB part# in their catalog)
2020-04-28T01:03:07 < catphish> i assume it does, since it's just a socket
2020-04-28T01:03:13 < Thorn> catphish you can use it even without any data at all lol
2020-04-28T01:03:32 < zyp> catphish, usb-c is the one connector to rule them all
2020-04-28T01:03:41 < catphish> i should definitely look at USB C for future designs
2020-04-28T01:04:20 < Thorn> you'll have to buy a bunch of new cables
2020-04-28T01:04:35 < catphish> i'm trying to *only* own USB C cables
2020-04-28T01:04:52 < catphish> ST still haven't upgraded st-link to USB C :(
2020-04-28T01:04:59 < zyp> bad idea, it's fucking annoying when you want to use something with an older connector :)
2020-04-28T01:05:22 < catphish> i finally own an st-link nice device
2020-04-28T01:05:31 < Thorn> ok so 16-bit ddr3l is 96 balls, 0.8mm pitch
2020-04-28T01:05:41 < zyp> I have the same problem with mini connectors
2020-04-28T01:05:47 < karlp> catphish: yes it has :)
2020-04-28T01:05:50 < karlp> you just need newer ones
2020-04-28T01:06:15 < karlp> no, I lie sorry
2020-04-28T01:06:19 < catphish> karlp: really? i bought a new one last week, it has mini USB B :(
2020-04-28T01:06:26 < karlp> they put usb-C on the taret end of this nucleo, not the stlink end
2020-04-28T01:06:34 < karlp> stlink ends ar eall micro-usb though now at least
2020-04-28T01:06:58 < zyp> are they?
2020-04-28T01:07:02 < catphish> they should 100% start doing USB C on nucleo boards
2020-04-28T01:07:04 < zyp> I think mine are all mini
2020-04-28T01:07:17 < catphish> my nucleo is micro, st-link v1 is mini
2020-04-28T01:07:22 < catphish> *v2
2020-04-28T01:07:26 < karlp> g4 and l5 nucleos are micro on the stlink side
2020-04-28T01:07:41 < zyp> hmm, wb is my newest nucleo, don't remember what that had
2020-04-28T01:07:53 < karlp> l5 has usb-c for the device itself too
2020-04-28T01:08:31 < catphish> can they add USB HS and ethernet PHY soon?
2020-04-28T01:09:08 < zyp> ah, found wb nucleo, both stlink and target are micro
2020-04-28T01:09:29 < catphish> yeah, pretty sure it's all micro, apart from the st-link v2, which is mini
2020-04-28T01:10:02 < zyp> all my discovery boards have mini for the stlink
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2020-04-28T01:10:29 < zyp> IIRC some have mini for the target too, some have micro-ab for the target
2020-04-28T01:10:31 < catphish> ah okay, never owned a discovery, only nucleo
2020-04-28T01:10:52 < zyp> I remember at the time mini-ab was obsolete but not mini-b
2020-04-28T01:11:17 < qyx> I have mini-b only
2020-04-28T01:11:19 < zyp> so micro-ab was the supported one for otg, which is why f4 discovery has that
2020-04-28T01:11:22 < qyx> 2 discoveries, 2 nucleos
2020-04-28T01:11:28 < catphish> when will we just have C for everything?
2020-04-28T01:11:32 < qyx> now
2020-04-28T01:11:33 < zyp> but f3 discovery (which is newer) only has mini-b
2020-04-28T01:11:52 < zyp> when everything we use now is outdated
2020-04-28T01:11:59 < zyp> I mean
2020-04-28T01:12:06 < catphish> can't complain about nucleo though
2020-04-28T01:12:18 < catphish> it's basically a free dev board
2020-04-28T01:12:33 < zyp> I'm aiming to mainly buy stuff with usb-c from now on, 
2020-04-28T01:12:54 < catphish> yeah, i replaced my tablet with a usb C one, primarily for the connector!
2020-04-28T01:13:09 < zyp> but I'm not gonna throw away what I've already got
2020-04-28T01:13:50 < catphish> in fairness the tablet was 7 years old :)
2020-04-28T01:14:37 < zyp> hehe
2020-04-28T01:14:58 < kakimir> internets and electronics/computers hobbies = moneyed rus?
2020-04-28T01:15:40 < catphish> one day my electronics habit will be profitable, right? right?!
2020-04-28T01:15:45 < zyp> apart from my worklaptop, my newest windows laptop is 10 years old
2020-04-28T01:16:13 < catphish> buy thinkpad, buy once :)
2020-04-28T01:16:31 < zyp> I'd like something to e.g. run VCDS in the car, so I've been thinking about picking up one of those new chuwi hi10 things with usb-c and PD charging
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2020-04-28T01:17:26 < zyp> don't need a keyboard for vcds so a windows tablet would be convenient, and the chuwi hi10 seems to be about as cheap as I can get anything kinda decent
2020-04-28T01:18:21 < zyp> and I also don't need a device to do anything I can already do on my macbook so I'm not interested in putting money into a thinkpad or whatever
2020-04-28T01:18:35 < catphish> i was looking at those chuwi tablets, but in the end got a Mi Pad 4
2020-04-28T01:18:53 < catphish> it's much better quality than i expected for the money
2020-04-28T01:18:58 < zyp> this device would probably end up mainly being a youtube player for the kid or something anyway since most days I won't be using vcds in the car :p
2020-04-28T01:20:56 < catphish> i do recommend the mi pad 4 though, for general purpose tableting
2020-04-28T01:21:23 < zyp> I don't really need an android tablet
2020-04-28T01:21:47 < zyp> I mean, apart from the one I got on the wall :)
2020-04-28T01:22:45 < catphish> i have one under my bed for playing games, probably a bad habit
2020-04-28T01:23:26 < zyp> I've got a kindle by the bed
2020-04-28T01:24:08 < englishman> ha qyx 
2020-04-28T01:24:09 < englishman> one sec
2020-04-28T01:24:19 < catphish> my wife has a kindle by the bed, much better i'm sure!
2020-04-28T01:24:40 < englishman> qyx: https://i.imgur.com/u22ophh.png
2020-04-28T01:25:07 < catphish> that's cold wherever it is
2020-04-28T01:25:10 < zyp> currently reading neal stephenson again, reamde is probably the first of his books I've read where he doesn't fuck up the ending
2020-04-28T01:25:21 < englishman> it has been the longest period since a high of 20C in 150 years or something
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2020-04-28T01:25:45 < zyp> and then I went straight onto fall; or dodge in hell which is kinda a sequel, so I guess here's where the fucked up ending comes :)
2020-04-28T01:25:59 < catphish> that's some seriously varied weather
2020-04-28T01:26:19 < catphish> -10 to +15 in the same day :|
2020-04-28T01:26:46 < catphish> do you live in a desert?
2020-04-28T01:26:58 < englishman> ha
2020-04-28T01:27:00 < zyp> there's no -10
2020-04-28T01:27:06 < zyp> dewpoint != temp
2020-04-28T01:27:09 < englishman> yeah thats dewpoint
2020-04-28T01:27:18 < catphish> oh okay
2020-04-28T01:27:26 < zyp> but wtf is humidex?
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2020-04-28T01:28:04 < catphish> -4 to +14 is more normal
2020-04-28T01:28:06 < zyp> oh, some canadian thing
2020-04-28T01:28:13 < zyp> temp corrected for humidity
2020-04-28T01:28:16 < catphish> uk / canada winter :)
2020-04-28T01:28:16 < englishman> yeah
2020-04-28T01:28:24 < englishman> due to hot and humid summers
2020-04-28T01:36:03 < karlp> https://bin.jvnv.net/file/97Us4/usb-test-harness-gerbz.zip and https://github.com/karlp/hubbish/blob/master/usb-test-harness.pdf if anyone wants to yell at me, otherwise I think this is about done done.
2020-04-28T01:36:59 < karlp> time to go kill greeks I reckon
2020-04-28T01:40:09 < catphish> 24v -> 5v turns out not to be that hard
2020-04-28T01:40:36 < karlp> yeah, I just decided to leave it out
2020-04-28T01:40:41 < karlp> what did you do in the end for that on yours?
2020-04-28T01:40:51 < karlp> also, I need 30W there...
2020-04-28T01:40:54 < catphish> karlp: https://nutty.tk/accesscontrol.pdf
2020-04-28T01:41:37 < catphish> i found a DC-DC buck chip with a simple example design for a (iirc) 3A 3v3 output
2020-04-28T01:41:45 < catphish> and copied the design
2020-04-28T01:41:55 < catphish> i'm sure it could be altered pretty easily for 5v
2020-04-28T01:41:56 < karlp> yeah, 3A is ~half what a 7 port hub needs for the downstream ports
2020-04-28T01:42:02 < catphish> ah
2020-04-28T01:42:13 < karlp> I've got 1A switches on each port
2020-04-28T01:42:25 < karlp> 500mA is too shitty, but 2A is way overkill
2020-04-28T01:42:36 < karlp> anywya, that can be another round
2020-04-28T01:42:41 < catphish> that design looked pretty intimidating at first, but once i started copying it, it wasn't too bad
2020-04-28T01:42:42 < karlp> the space is on the board for it
2020-04-28T01:42:44 < catphish> and it works nicely
2020-04-28T01:43:25 < catphish> layout of this bottom-right: https://i.imgur.com/PZeHCSp.jpg
2020-04-28T01:48:52 < catphish> what does APL3511C actually do?
2020-04-28T01:49:10 < catphish> it is just a current limiter?
2020-04-28T01:52:02 < lux> those thin traces going from the caps to the stm look weird
2020-04-28T01:52:18 < karlp> apl3511c is a switch
2020-04-28T01:52:21 < catphish> karlp: looks like you covered all the bases, power management, ESD, the main work is done by USB2517?
2020-04-28T01:53:04 < karlp> lux: except for the usb lines, the rest of the traces are actualyl 10mil, so not really thin
2020-04-28T01:53:10 < karlp> which ones do you mean?
2020-04-28T01:53:46 < lux> the ones going to C25, C26
2020-04-28T01:54:58 < lux> just goes a bit against the thumb rule to keep esr as low as possible, but i guess it doesn't really matter at those lengths
2020-04-28T01:55:28 < karlp> do you mean this c25? https://bin.jvnv.net/file/C8LyY.png or what?
2020-04-28T01:55:58 < lux> i was refering to that: catphish>	
2020-04-28T01:56:01 < lux> layout of this bottom-right: https://i.imgur.com/PZeHCSp.jpg
2020-04-28T01:56:05 < karlp> ahhh.
2020-04-28T01:56:08 < lux> sry :)
2020-04-28T01:56:13 < karlp> c25 and c26 on mine didn't make a lot of sense :)
2020-04-28T01:56:51 < catphish> oh :)
2020-04-28T01:58:02 < kakimir> catphish: show us how to plug it in
2020-04-28T01:58:15 < catphish> lux: you're probably right, i think the traces i took to IC pins were a bit thin
2020-04-28T01:58:24 < catphish> but also quite short, so hopefully not an issue
2020-04-28T02:06:02 < catphish> lux: looks like i just chose 3 tracks widths, the middle size was too big for IC pins, probably should have made the smallest size a little bigger to match the stm32 pin width
2020-04-28T02:07:06 < catphish> this is the full layout if you care :) https://i.imgur.com/x71dUj8.png
2020-04-28T02:07:14 < lux> i usually just route the wider trace to the pad and switch right before it
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2020-04-28T02:07:38 < kakimir> catphish: next time if you have cap cluster like in bottom right
2020-04-28T02:07:40 < catphish> that's what i did in most cases
2020-04-28T02:07:44 < kakimir> use multiple vias
2020-04-28T02:08:15 < catphish> noted
2020-04-28T02:10:10 < kakimir> resistance might look okay but it's the impedance that matters with caps
2020-04-28T02:10:27 < kakimir> or something like that
2020-04-28T02:11:12 < kakimir> caps have only AC element of the current
2020-04-28T02:13:02 < kakimir> and usually pretty high frequency as switching etc. is pretty fast edges
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2020-04-28T02:31:17 < kakimir> https://drive.google.com/file/d/1KWE8r5wALNhpEtd32tzkEhKDCIjXAB9f/view?usp=sharing any obvious mistakes?
2020-04-28T02:31:23 < kakimir> lurenceboi
2020-04-28T02:33:59 < zyp> not enough SMAs
2020-04-28T02:34:25 < zyp> uh
2020-04-28T02:37:02 < englishman> https://www.bellingcat.com/news/2020/04/24/dying-to-keep-warm-oil-trade-and-makeshift-refining-in-north-west-syria/
2020-04-28T02:37:08 < englishman> DIY oil refining to support terrorism
2020-04-28T02:37:10 < englishman> super cool
2020-04-28T02:37:36 < zyp> kakimir, here's a single part that does everything your circuit does, apart from the leds: https://www.analog.com/media/en/technical-documentation/data-sheets/2881fj.pdf
2020-04-28T02:37:40 < Laurenceb> >bellingcat
2020-04-28T02:37:44 < Laurenceb> aka mi6 news
2020-04-28T02:38:07 < kakimir> zyp: another day I asked you and you said max485
2020-04-28T02:38:28 < kakimir> and I asked why and dongs said it's cheaper to use separate parts
2020-04-28T02:38:40 < zyp> IIRC you didn't mention isolated
2020-04-28T02:38:50 < kakimir> hmm
2020-04-28T02:38:57 < kakimir> yeah I'm like that
2020-04-28T02:39:12 < zyp> but yeah, that LTM2881 looks expensive as fuck
2020-04-28T02:39:13 < kakimir> so scrap that design and throw that in now?
2020-04-28T02:39:29 < zyp> but I've seen cheaper isolated transceivers that doesn't do power
2020-04-28T02:39:45 < kakimir> very interesting price
2020-04-28T02:39:45 < zyp> although the integrated termination is also neat
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2020-04-28T02:40:04 < kakimir> that is the most expensive tranceiver I have seen
2020-04-28T02:40:12 < zyp> if you need isolated and LTM2881 fits your budget, I don't think you can find anything better :p
2020-04-28T02:40:31 < kakimir> optos are like 1eur a pop
2020-04-28T02:40:42 < kakimir> DC DC is 1.5eur or so
2020-04-28T02:40:46 < zyp> 1eur? sounds expensive
2020-04-28T02:41:01 < zyp> hang on, let me find the transceiver I looked at using for a design once
2020-04-28T02:41:28 < kakimir> and the MAX485 is 2eur a pop
2020-04-28T02:41:53 < kakimir> so if we really stretch it we might get close to 10eur
2020-04-28T02:43:03 < zyp> huh
2020-04-28T02:43:07 < zyp> http://www.ti.com/lit/ds/symlink/isow7841.pdf <- this is cool too
2020-04-28T02:43:48 < zyp> still needs transceiver though
2020-04-28T02:44:45 < kakimir> for some reason I have stacked up ADUMs
2020-04-28T02:45:09 < kakimir> adum1401 is there and some adum1400
2020-04-28T02:45:22 < zyp> I wonder if this would be suitable for my power meter
2020-04-28T02:46:05 < zyp> four pins would be enough to run spi, but I'd lose the sideband signals
2020-04-28T02:46:08 < kakimir> hmm adum1401 is more expensives than that what you showed me
2020-04-28T02:46:14 < kakimir> and doesn't have DC/DC
2020-04-28T02:46:34 < zyp> found it here: http://www.ti.com/lit/ug/tiduct4a/tiduct4a.pdf
2020-04-28T02:46:51 < zyp> but neither of those are what I've looked at before
2020-04-28T02:47:48 < zyp> anyway, fuck all that
2020-04-28T02:48:03 < zyp> https://datasheets.maximintegrated.com/en/ds/MAXM22510-MAXM22511.pdf <- this thing is <$10 in single qty
2020-04-28T02:48:06 < zyp> power and isolation
2020-04-28T02:48:25 < kakimir> doesn't usually tranceiver need 5V?
2020-04-28T02:48:39 < zyp> depends on the transceiver
2020-04-28T02:48:44 < zyp> some are 3.3, some are 5
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2020-04-28T02:48:49 < zyp> some works with both
2020-04-28T02:49:22 < zyp> and for the ones that integrates DC-DC, who cares, they convert power for the bus side anyway
2020-04-28T02:49:44 < kakimir> 3v3 sounds like expensives
2020-04-28T02:49:56 < zyp> anyway, look at the last maxim part
2020-04-28T02:50:07 < kakimir> MAXM22510 is it
2020-04-28T02:50:12 < kakimir> this makes sense
2020-04-28T02:50:31 < kakimir> or does it
2020-04-28T02:51:06 < kakimir> apart from connectors, potentiometers or human interface elements generally that is the price of rest of electronics
2020-04-28T02:51:25 < kakimir> maybe
2020-04-28T02:51:56 < kakimir> but tranceivering and isolating is $$
2020-04-28T02:52:29 < kakimir> I think I need to calculate current approach price first
2020-04-28T02:53:06 < zyp> https://www.digikey.com/product-detail/en/maxim-integrated/MAXM22511GLH-T/175-MAXM22511GLH-TCT-ND/11626019 $8 @1
2020-04-28T02:53:55 < zyp> if your current approach is €6.5 as you suggested earlier, the difference is pretty low
2020-04-28T02:54:30 < kakimir> that traco piece is actually over 3eur
2020-04-28T02:54:48 < kakimir> so we are looking at +7eur for just the isolation
2020-04-28T02:55:21 < kakimir> 11 is cheaper than 10 zyp?
2020-04-28T02:55:27 < kakimir> *11
2020-04-28T02:55:29 < zyp> weirdly enough
2020-04-28T02:55:38 < zyp> difference seems to be 11 is faster than 10
2020-04-28T02:55:50 < zyp> maybe it sells more, idk
2020-04-28T02:56:45 < kakimir> better harder faster stronger
2020-04-28T02:57:27 < zyp> ADM2582E/ADM2587E is another option with integrated power
2020-04-28T02:57:34 < zyp> bit more expensive than the maxim though
2020-04-28T02:57:49 < kakimir> I don't like how the part id starts with "A"
2020-04-28T02:58:05 < zyp> heh :)
2020-04-28T02:58:12 < kakimir> usually it's expensives when it starts with "A"
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2020-04-28T02:58:48 < kakimir> but when it starts with "MAX" it's like sensible pricing
2020-04-28T02:59:19 < zyp> by the way, what is this for? what are you gonna talk to?
2020-04-28T02:59:32 < kakimir> to welding machine
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2020-04-28T03:00:01 < zyp> you're building both ends?
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2020-04-28T03:00:13 < zyp> are you putting isolators on both ends?
2020-04-28T03:00:14 < kakimir> nope
2020-04-28T03:00:44 < kakimir> I just throw rs485 there to see if I could use computer interface to control the welding machine
2020-04-28T03:01:02 < zyp> have you considered running a power wire along with the bus instead of doing isolated DCDC?
2020-04-28T03:01:36 < kakimir> is that like a thing?
2020-04-28T03:02:08 < kakimir> good idea but my computer interface requires external dc too
2020-04-28T03:02:35 < kakimir> at least there should be an option to source from the board
2020-04-28T03:03:08 < kakimir> is on board regulation required?
2020-04-28T03:03:32 < zyp> https://datasheets.maximintegrated.com/en/ds/MAX14949.pdf <- here's another fun part, it got the transformer driver but you add the transformer externally
2020-04-28T03:04:13 < zyp> probably not worth it compared to the other with internal transformer, but still
2020-04-28T03:05:00 < kakimir> isn't tranformer like 2eurs anyway+
2020-04-28T03:05:10 < zyp> probably, haven't checked
2020-04-28T03:05:18 < kakimir> idk I have not used anything so small ever
2020-04-28T03:05:35 < zyp> maybe you could DIY the transformer with pcb traces :)
2020-04-28T03:05:48 < kakimir> TF from ali for 10cents
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2020-04-28T03:07:40 < zyp> https://scholar.harvard.edu/files/sct/files/characterization_of_coreless_printed_circuit_board_pcb_transformers.pdf <- maybe some useful stuff in here
2020-04-28T03:07:52 < kakimir> what voltage would you run alongside rs485?
2020-04-28T03:07:57 < zyp> IIRC the DC-DC thing I used on my power measurement board used a PCB transformer
2020-04-28T03:08:00 < kakimir> 12volts right?
2020-04-28T03:08:12 < zyp> dunno, whatever is convenient
2020-04-28T03:08:26 < kakimir> 5 is convenient
2020-04-28T03:08:32 < kakimir> or 12
2020-04-28T03:08:38 < zyp> saw a transceiver claim it could work with a wide range to account for voltage drop in remote power scenarios
2020-04-28T03:09:01 < zyp> otherwise you could just put a LDO and feed whatever the LDO would be happy with after losses
2020-04-28T03:09:36 < zyp> anyway, have fun, I'm going to bed
2020-04-28T03:09:41 < kakimir> yes
2020-04-28T03:09:47 < kakimir> sleep good
2020-04-28T03:10:54 < kakimir> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fiD39jo5Yo4
2020-04-28T03:10:58 < kakimir> musics
2020-04-28T03:11:03 < zyp> I wonder how much pcb area you'd have to use to make a transformer for that MAX14949
2020-04-28T03:11:15 < zyp> it wouldn't be too different from NFC stuff, and that works
2020-04-28T03:11:17 < kakimir> so you cannot sleep yet
2020-04-28T03:11:31 < kakimir> quick sim very quick
2020-04-28T03:11:32 < zyp> the curse of curiosity :)
2020-04-28T03:12:00 < kakimir> you got excited and next thing you know is morning sun shining in your eyes
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2020-04-28T03:32:11 < kakimir> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ofm2QhMkhmk the best sport
2020-04-28T03:34:41  * karlp is using an isow7841 in one design.
2020-04-28T03:34:54 < karlp> not for rs485 actually though :)
2020-04-28T03:35:28 < kakimir> for what thens?
2020-04-28T03:35:33 < karlp> spi :)
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2020-04-28T03:35:45 < karlp> we use power with the rs485 cable :)
2020-04-28T03:35:57 < karlp> magically solved the common vs ground, magically solves the power problem :)
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2020-04-28T06:50:32 < kakinull> say no to cubes
2020-04-28T06:51:03 < kakinull> just say no if stranger tries to give you cubes
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2020-04-28T07:01:22 < strata> just say no if stranger tries to give you stm32cubemx
2020-04-28T07:02:16 < kakinull> yes
2020-04-28T07:02:32 < kakinull> it leads to using stm32
2020-04-28T08:10:16 < kakinull> https://www.mecum.com/lots/FL0117-269738/1939-bugatti-replica/ 1939
2020-04-28T08:10:40 < aandrew> lol
2020-04-28T08:10:55 < kakinull> modern cars look like shit
2020-04-28T08:17:40 < kakinull> https://www.lowrider.com/rides/cars/1956-buick-special-stumbled-upon/ look at this
2020-04-28T08:21:08 < strata> STM32-CoV-19
2020-04-28T08:25:56 < kakinull> google "midnight ghost car"
2020-04-28T08:26:00 < kakinull> see photos
2020-04-28T08:26:04 < kakinull> that is 1939
2020-04-28T08:26:16 < kakinull> concept car ofc
2020-04-28T08:27:31 < kakinull> https://firsttoknow.com/midnight-ghost-car/
2020-04-28T08:29:55 < kakinull> if you google "futuristic car" you find cars that look like your gaming computer
2020-04-28T08:30:35 < kakinull> rgb leds, a lot of glass, displays everywhere
2020-04-28T08:31:42 < kakinull> but no substance
2020-04-28T08:34:38 < kakinull> https://www.motor1.com/news/26840/bmw-328-hommage-concept-revealed/ I found something interesting.. maan.. look at those wheels
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2020-04-28T09:43:50 < qyx> catphish: thats what lux means by thick and short traces https://i.imgur.com/4pReTsx.png
2020-04-28T09:57:04 < kakinull> fills rather
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2020-04-28T11:18:48 < Thorn> X-CUBE-COVID-19
2020-04-28T11:23:05 < catphish> the fills there are nice
2020-04-28T11:24:21 < catphish> i like how compact that is
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2020-04-28T11:42:21 < Thorn> holy crap ddr3 consumes up to 200 mA during operation
2020-04-28T11:44:36 < Thorn> btw is ddr3 going to be around for a long time at least for embedded SoC applications?
2020-04-28T11:55:52 < PaulFertser> So my toaster has https://www.diodes.com/assets/Datasheets/PT8A2511.pdf in it
2020-04-28T11:59:42 < PaulFertser> The board has an interesting feature: it's all single-sided TH only components. And there's a regular "tact" microbutton with a LED mounted directly on top of it with a special plastic part in-between and around the LED to press the button.
2020-04-28T12:09:53 < PaulFertser> Should I bother adding defrost or reheat buttons?
2020-04-28T12:21:29 < mawk> the datasheet doesn't tell what this defrost mode does
2020-04-28T12:22:08 < PaulFertser> Neither does it say anything about reheat :( Looks like those functions are quite common and do not require explanations.
2020-04-28T12:24:04 < Streaker> how does the supply to the relay work? I can't see anything there to regulate the voltage down to 12V
2020-04-28T12:24:16 < Streaker> are they running the relay on some random voltage
2020-04-28T12:24:41 < PaulFertser> Apparently they both control OSC frequency
2020-04-28T12:24:54 < PaulFertser> See page 4, RX and CX affect it.
2020-04-28T12:25:37 < PaulFertser> Streaker: R15
2020-04-28T12:26:35 < Streaker> is it a big wirewound resistor?
2020-04-28T12:28:00 < Streaker> it would have to be. the entire toaster current through it x 12
2020-04-28T12:29:14 < PaulFertser> It's interesting that apparently reheat function makes it fully ignore NTC and potentiometer setting.
2020-04-28T12:29:53 < PaulFertser> And defrost just slows the OSC down.
2020-04-28T12:33:51 < PaulFertser> I can't see R15 in the device, it's hidden somehow, likely to be just part of the heater.
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2020-04-28T12:42:28 < Streake_> that's dangerous. if the heater element burns out in the section that is "R15" you get a fried chip and possibly fire on the PCB.
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2020-04-28T12:47:46 < PaulFertser> Yep
2020-04-28T12:48:59 < jpa-> so it appears that defrost and reheat just adjust the time it toasts.. i would have expected at least PWM to adjust the heat also or something
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2020-04-28T12:50:23 < PaulFertser> Alas
2020-04-28T12:51:40 < Streaker> poor Horatio!
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2020-04-28T13:52:51 < Thorn> ddr3 and other altium training https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCretWCYM5SDLWVD3Lgb-BBg/videos
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2020-04-28T14:03:25 < con3> Thorn: thanks for sharing!
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2020-04-28T16:02:55 < Thorn> has anyone worked with Ion Sensitive Electrode sensors, are they really that expensive ($500-$1k)? I need O2 and N2/ammonia
2020-04-28T16:03:34 < Thorn> *ion selective https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ion-selective_electrode
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2020-04-28T16:12:21 < jpa-> https://www.tme.eu/en/details/ze03-o2/gas-sensors/winsen/  there are these, but I'm not sure what measurement method they use
2020-04-28T16:13:09 < jpa-> oh, or are you measuring in a liquid?
2020-04-28T16:15:02 < Thorn> yes in a liquid
2020-04-28T16:17:07 < Thorn> although dissolved oxygen sensors may be something other than ISE
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2020-04-28T18:41:03 < englishman> do you think that stroopwaffels are an essential service?
2020-04-28T18:42:58 < jpa-> not only essential, think of the cruelty it would be to keep people alive only to live in a world without stroopwaffels
2020-04-28T18:45:35 < mawk> of course
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2020-04-28T19:48:20 < strata> they'll live. netflix will keep them occupied.
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2020-04-28T19:58:18 < boddax> just tried to surf deepweb didnt seen any thing different than the normal web :(
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2020-04-28T19:59:17 < BrainDamage> ...what exactly were you expecting?
2020-04-28T20:02:04 < boddax> lol dunno never tried ..expecting attack net ..monitoring activities seen nothing weird
2020-04-28T20:02:23 < boddax> or theyr tools very stealty
2020-04-28T20:02:56 < boddax> trued with usb key with tails os
2020-04-28T20:03:13 < boddax> *tried
2020-04-28T20:03:54 < boddax> but it say much better to hide behind an vpn
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2020-04-28T20:21:10 < englishman> hey BrainDamage my police surplus 92S arrived it's really nice i feel like a carabinieri
2020-04-28T20:22:25 < BrainDamage> englishman: it's supposed to be built like a tank, as in, you could even drag it through the mud, rinse and it should still shoot
2020-04-28T20:23:12 < englishman> pretty much. it's also very ergonomic and the controls are better than i thought
2020-04-28T20:23:36 < englishman> even the heel magazine eject
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2020-04-28T20:47:56 < aandrew> Thorn: I haven’t used them. I do have a CO2 sensor (one of those cheap ones like what’s on adafruit etc) that I want to use to see if I can tell when the mosquito magnet has run out of power
2020-04-28T20:48:11 < aandrew> I also have a silicon CO2 sensor to test as well, it’s WAY smaller and lower power
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2020-04-28T21:52:52 < qyx> jpa-: I ordered some of those winsens
2020-04-28T21:53:23 < qyx> there are apparently two methods, one needs a heated wire to operate
2020-04-28T22:02:25 < aandrew> man this stm32plus C++ instantiation of hardware makes my eyes bleed
2020-04-28T22:02:29 < aandrew> tf is wrong with people
2020-04-28T22:04:17 < qyx> oh
2020-04-28T22:04:39 < qyx> Thorn: dissolved oxygen, blue led + red phototransistor no worky?
2020-04-28T22:05:03 < aandrew> qyx: I thought blood oximetry used red+ir
2020-04-28T22:05:54 < qyx> it may be a different principle
2020-04-28T22:06:59 < qyx> https://www.ysi.com/parameters/dissolved-oxygen
2020-04-28T22:09:03 < qyx> :DD portable https://www.ysi.com/portabledcp
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2020-04-28T22:22:08 < Thorn> blood oximetry measures hemoglobin, not dissolved oxygen afaik
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2020-04-28T22:37:30 < Cracki> oxygen binds to hemoglobin
2020-04-28T22:37:47 < Cracki> what you measure is how hemoglobin+o2 looks ifferent from hemoglobin
2020-04-28T22:40:10 < Cracki> re: eyes bleeding, the X-CUBE-EEPROM code is also an eye sore, not to mention there's a case where they do two operations in the wrong order and that can lead to data loss if you interrupt the process at the right time
2020-04-28T22:40:30 < Cracki> (for whatever version of their code is in cubef3)
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2020-04-28T22:43:47 < strata> anything with the word CUBE in it is hereby banned by order of the High Court of Microchip, Inc., acquisitioner of ST circa Q3 2020.
2020-04-28T22:58:31 < mawk> respect my personal cube strata please
2020-04-28T22:59:50  * strata slaps mawk around a bit with a large Microchip ATMEL AVR.
2020-04-28T23:03:14 < mawk> lol
2020-04-28T23:03:22 < Steffanx> What is atmel?
2020-04-28T23:03:49 < strata> Steffanx: All The Many Electronic Lies
2020-04-28T23:05:17 < qyx> I'm going to make this https://i.pinimg.com/originals/5e/2e/73/5e2e73471382161e0eaf9868e8c69802.jpg
2020-04-28T23:05:30 < Steffanx> ikea lack?
2020-04-28T23:05:34 < qyx> sure
2020-04-28T23:05:39 < qyx> 19" compatible
2020-04-28T23:07:29 < BrainDamage> how much does it cost?
2020-04-28T23:08:19 < englishman> TWO ikea lack endtables?
2020-04-28T23:08:23 < englishman> moneyed westerner
2020-04-28T23:08:29 < Steffanx> Yeah.
2020-04-28T23:08:37 < BrainDamage> oh wow, it's really called lack
2020-04-28T23:08:41 < Mangy_Dog> i use ikea lack far far far too much
2020-04-28T23:08:43 < BrainDamage> I thought it was a pun on rack
2020-04-28T23:08:47 < englishman> those casters probably cost more than the table. by 2-3x
2020-04-28T23:08:50 < Steffanx> That's like 2 times 6 euro bucks for the tables and 5 for the wheels.
2020-04-28T23:09:02 < Steffanx> and then this metal plate thing, not sure if ikea sells those.
2020-04-28T23:09:03 < Mangy_Dog> ha nice lack rack
2020-04-28T23:10:38 < Mangy_Dog> i just wish they filled the leds fully with chipboard
2020-04-28T23:10:42 < Mangy_Dog> maybe the table too
2020-04-28T23:10:49 < Steffanx> no leds..
2020-04-28T23:10:49 < Mangy_Dog> legs
2020-04-28T23:11:38 < qyx> zyp: I assembled the subrack thing and I am upset
2020-04-28T23:11:57 < zyp> aww, what detail did you miss?
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2020-04-28T23:14:57 < qyx> multiple things, the connectors are not fully fitted
2020-04-28T23:15:14 < qyx> so either I musread the pcb-to-pcb mating distance
2020-04-28T23:15:30 < qyx> or what
2020-04-28T23:16:03 < qyx> if I fit the conenctor fully, there is a 4.3mm distance between the PCB edge and the front panel
2020-04-28T23:16:10 < qyx> it should be 2.54
2020-04-28T23:16:22 < qyx> which is impractical too, it is too much
2020-04-28T23:17:34 < qyx> if I replace the rear backplane alu profiles with another type, the gap will be 3mm less
2020-04-28T23:18:19 < qyx> there are two types, one to be used with a 3mm plastic insulating strip, the other is 3mm deeper (no insulator should be used)
2020-04-28T23:18:28 < zyp> I'd redo the board layout to make the board 4.3mm longer or something
2020-04-28T23:18:45 < zyp> yeah, I saw
2020-04-28T23:18:50 < zyp> I wouldn't start fucking with that
2020-04-28T23:19:14 < zyp> could work as a hack, not a good solution
2020-04-28T23:19:47 < qyx> but the numbers are ok, so theres probably some other reason
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2020-04-28T23:20:11 < qyx> you can just modify the side panels
2020-04-28T23:20:23 < qyx> but they should have holes 15mm apart, which would be broken that way
2020-04-28T23:21:10 < qyx> another one, card guide rails are simply unobtainable
2020-04-28T23:21:24 < zyp> are you sure the numbers are sane? does the board sit as deep in the pcie socket as you expect?
2020-04-28T23:21:53 < qyx> variable length ones are not variable enough, you must modify them to fit 70mm
2020-04-28T23:22:05 < zyp> yeah, I concluded that would be the outcome of going with short boards
2020-04-28T23:22:06 < qyx> and 70mm accessory card guides are 4HP wide
2020-04-28T23:23:24 < zyp> I figure if I end up designing something for subracks, I'll either design for full length or make passive extension board to go between backplane and a shorter length board
2020-04-28T23:23:41 < qyx> sounds sane
2020-04-28T23:23:51 < qyx> my goal was making the whole subrack smaller though
2020-04-28T23:23:58 < qyx> not the cards themselves
2020-04-28T23:24:52 < zyp> by buying a normal depth one and cutting it to fit?
2020-04-28T23:25:36 < qyx> no, buying components & making custom side panels
2020-04-28T23:25:46 < zyp> my issue is not the cabinet size so much as the pcb cost would be
2020-04-28T23:31:17 < qyx> https://i.imgur.com/eEObZuI.png
2020-04-28T23:31:24 < qyx> looks like the connector sizing is okish
2020-04-28T23:31:38 < qyx> the dimensions and distance to the backplane I mean
2020-04-28T23:32:44 < qyx> 4.0mm from the connector edge to the BP, molex says 4.4mm
2020-04-28T23:33:58 < qyx> no, 3.4mm
2020-04-28T23:34:00 < qyx> but still
2020-04-28T23:40:07 < catphish> i really should learn how to use makefiles, i was just looking to see if i could use lwip, but literally no idea where to begin :(
2020-04-28T23:40:19 < zyp> fuck makefiles :)
2020-04-28T23:40:50 < zyp> I personally prefer scons
2020-04-28T23:40:57 < catphish> lwip looks good, but i don't really know how to begin integrating it
2020-04-28T23:41:20 < catphish> i've never properly understood c build environments
2020-04-28T23:41:22 < karlp> scons is a wreck of python2/3 these days :)
2020-04-28T23:41:31 < catphish> i just run gcc and manually point it my half a dozen c files
2020-04-28T23:42:06 < zyp> karlp, IME it works with either as long as you don't have any python2 print statements or other shit in the SConscripts
2020-04-28T23:43:11 < zyp> catphish, each .c file is compiled into a .o, then all the .o files are linked to form the resulting .elf
2020-04-28T23:44:03 < zyp> and the point of make and friends is that when you change a single .c, you only need to rebuild the resulting .o and the .elf
2020-04-28T23:44:50 < Thorn> and when you change an .h...
2020-04-28T23:45:04 < zyp> yeah, that's the hard part
2020-04-28T23:45:16 < zyp> when you change a .h, all .c files that includes it needs to be rebuilt
2020-04-28T23:45:18 < Thorn> then we'll know if you're a make pro or a make:amateur
2020-04-28T23:45:42 < zyp> which means that something needs to keep track of what .c files includes what .h files (ether directly or indirectly)
2020-04-28T23:46:37 < zyp> make stuff generally get the compiler to spit out dependency information while it's building anyway, scons has its own source scanner stuff
2020-04-28T23:49:01 < catphish> this is my build script, not 100% manual, but still kinda messy https://github.com/catphish/accesscontrol/blob/master/make.sh
2020-04-28T23:49:08 < karlp> zyp: yeah, mostly fine, jsut had some problems with extyernal packages expecting one or other
2020-04-28T23:49:25 < catphish> but what i'm unsure about is how to integrate a large library into that
2020-04-28T23:54:44 < catphish> lwip comes with a Filelists.mk, i guess i do something with that
2020-04-28T23:55:09 < karlp> one would hope lwip would have an integration guide?
2020-04-28T23:56:09 < catphish> not a good one
2020-04-28T23:56:15 < catphish> there's bits here http://lwip.wikia.com/wiki/LwIP_Wiki
2020-04-28T23:57:18 < catphish> but i think it largely assumes some knowledge about building that i lack
2020-04-28T23:57:34 < zyp> karlp, fortunately python2 seems to be dying, so I figure soon the problem will be gone, soon anything will either be on python3 or too obsolete to care about
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2020-04-29T00:16:10 < catphish> i dragged my c and h files into stm32cubeide and it works, so maybe that can help me with my build mess
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2020-04-29T00:16:57 < zyp> uh, that sounds like an excellent way to make more mess :)
2020-04-29T00:17:05 < zyp> hang on
2020-04-29T00:18:34 < zyp> https://cgit.jvnv.net/suzumebachi/tree/SConstruct?id=2fc77d2 <- here's a pretty simple SConstruct
2020-04-29T00:19:10 < zyp> you can throw out line 32, change the names of the .ld and .elf files to whatever you call them and modify line 27 to find your .c files instead
2020-04-29T00:19:31 < zyp> and also throw out anything from Environment() that you don't need
2020-04-29T00:20:30 < zyp> you can probably replace the *FLAGS with whatever you use when you call gcc directly
2020-04-29T00:25:11 < qyx> zyp: identified the bug, pcb edge to front panel is 1.5mm instead of 2.54mm and my handcrafted testing side panel has 62mm between the holes instead of 60mm
2020-04-29T00:25:17 < catphish> thanks, i'll have a look
2020-04-29T00:25:17 < qyx> so there are those 3mm
2020-04-29T00:25:42 < zyp> ah
2020-04-29T00:26:27 < Thorn> does ada have stackless coroutines?
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2020-04-29T02:35:29 < emeb_mac> so many buildsystems
2020-04-29T02:35:37 < emeb_mac> make is fine by me
2020-04-29T02:37:09 < emeb_mac> catphish: here's an example of my makefile for STM32 builds -> https://github.com/emeb/spi_fiend/blob/master/firmware/Makefile
2020-04-29T02:37:18 < emeb_mac> evolved over years.
2020-04-29T02:37:45 < Ultrasauce> makerfile
2020-04-29T02:52:10 < zyp> emeb_mac, doesn't seem to track header dependencies as far as I can see
2020-04-29T02:52:35 < emeb_mac> zyp: correct. I've added that more recently
2020-04-29T02:52:52 < emeb_mac> those projects aren't in github
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2020-04-29T02:56:04 < Thorn> ok imagine you have the coroutine mechanics in place. for example you can call coroutine.resume() to resume one where it stopped. how do you wire it into your firmware?
2020-04-29T02:56:48 < zyp> what coroutines are we talking about here?
2020-04-29T02:56:51 < Thorn> the way you know you can resume a coroutine is an interrupt but you don't want to do it in an interrupt, presumably coroutines should run in the main thread
2020-04-29T02:57:31 < catphish> if i tell gdb to load code into my stm32 via openocd, what's going on? does it flash it? or is it relocating it into ram?
2020-04-29T02:57:35 < Cracki> set a flag then
2020-04-29T02:57:50 < Thorn> so you need to post a message from the handler, handle it in your event loop and resume the coroutine when a particular event is received?
2020-04-29T02:57:53 < emeb_mac> when I do it then it's flashing
2020-04-29T02:57:59 < Cracki> sounds plausible
2020-04-29T02:58:31 < zyp> Thorn, from my perspective you're now talking about framework internals that coroutine users shouldn't need to think about
2020-04-29T02:58:54 < Thorn> zyp ones doing async io, something like co_await spii_transfer(...); 
2020-04-29T02:58:58 < catphish> i think it is flashing, seems to run the same code after a reset
2020-04-29T02:59:24 < Cracki> if the coroutine "blocks", i.e. yields to the scheduler, it expects the scheduler to run it when something is ready and it can continue. if you're working with python-like semantics, i.e. "bar = yield foo" hands foo to scheduler, scheduler hands bar back in
2020-04-29T02:59:54 < emeb_mac> of course you can load into SRAM, but that requires different openocd operations, and you'd probably need some special stuff to execute it too.
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2020-04-29T03:00:14 < zyp> on a full OS, the event loop would call select()/poll()/whatever when it's waiting for stuff to do
2020-04-29T03:00:20 < Thorn> so you need that scheduler layer and it needs to be as agnostic as possible so that you can plug coroutines in (say add a driver)
2020-04-29T03:00:43 < zyp> so on a MCU it'd do whatever you'd prefer doing when idle, I guess
2020-04-29T03:01:00 < Thorn> it's a minimal not-quite-an-os with cooperative multitasking using coroutines for firmware
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2020-04-29T03:01:36 < zyp> I mean, think of it as a thread scheduler, coroutines are pretty much the same
2020-04-29T03:01:42 < Cracki> await something() would mean something() returns a "future/promise" the scheduler can poll/wait on (you need an interface), and when it's ready, it has a result, and the coroutine gets that
2020-04-29T03:02:11 < Cracki> something() returns a future, "await x" hands that out of the coroutine (yield) to the scheduler
2020-04-29T03:02:28 < zyp> say you're doing traditional multitasking, and you've got a thread that wants to block until some event
2020-04-29T03:02:42 < zyp> that's essentially the same as a coroutine awaiting that same event
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2020-04-29T03:03:04 < Thorn> Cracki yeah it's shown on this slide (pause) https://youtu.be/Ts-1mWBmTNE?t=2417
2020-04-29T03:03:23 < Cracki> blyat
2020-04-29T03:03:37 < Cracki> russians are the hardcore programmers
2020-04-29T03:03:54 < Thorn> and are difficult to work with
2020-04-29T03:04:13 < zyp> the difference between threads and coroutines is just that threads have a stack each (at least if you're doing preemptive multitasking), coroutines only have a single frame of state since they can't be preempted in the middle of having called something
2020-04-29T03:04:56 < Thorn> and you don't need to protect everything with a mutex thanks to that
2020-04-29T03:05:35 < zyp> the stuff I've used generally builds on futures or promises or whatever you want to call it
2020-04-29T03:05:42 < zyp> so I'd build a scheduler around that
2020-04-29T03:06:00 < Thorn> c++20 coroutines also use std::future and promise
2020-04-29T03:06:37 < zyp> anything that can be awaited should be a future, an ISR could fill a future
2020-04-29T03:06:46 < Thorn> but you have to implement suspend and resume yourself
2020-04-29T03:07:05 < zyp> suspend and resume of what?
2020-04-29T03:07:47 < Thorn> the Awaitable has these methods, await_suspend(coroutine),await_ready(), await_resume(coroutine)
2020-04-29T03:08:10 < zyp> hmm
2020-04-29T03:08:24 < Thorn> you need to implement them (probably by inheriting from suspend_always but that still doesn't give you everything)
2020-04-29T03:08:29 < zyp> I haven't looked at the C++ interfaces in detail so I don't know exactly how everything is supposed to fit together
2020-04-29T03:08:44 < Thorn> that's what I'm trying to fit into my head
2020-04-29T03:08:56 < zyp> but in theory it should work like this
2020-04-29T03:09:02 < zyp> hang on, gonna type up a pastebin
2020-04-29T03:09:27 < Thorn> he shows in that video how to do it with weendows overlapped io
2020-04-29T03:09:48 < Thorn> so no interrupts or context switches
2020-04-29T03:11:29 < Thorn> when you call co_await do_something() that do_something() will return your Awaitable
2020-04-29T03:12:05 < Thorn> which in turn will store your coroutine handle so that it can resume it
2020-04-29T03:12:41 < Thorn> (not sure yet how that can be made reentrant)
2020-04-29T03:14:22 < zyp> I don't know the C++ syntax, but I guess you can do something like this: https://paste.jvnv.net/view/tMcTa
2020-04-29T03:14:38 < zyp> Future probably being something like std::future<char> or whatever
2020-04-29T03:14:53 < zyp> and the pointer stuff is probably dumb, but you get the idea
2020-04-29T03:15:12 < zyp> and for uart rx a queue would generally be better than fucking around with futures directly
2020-04-29T03:16:29 < ds2> anyone looking into plastic injection molding?
2020-04-29T03:16:45 < ds2> blah
2020-04-29T03:20:47 < Thorn> zyp yes so you have statically allocated Awaitables for each type of an async operation, those Awaitables know how to suspend a coroutine passed to it (behind the scenes by co_await), and you can use the same Awaitable to resume the coroutine but there's another layer because you don't want to do it in an interrupt, so you use a message queue and an event loop in your main thread
2020-04-29T03:21:09 < Thorn> that's my understanding as of this moment
2020-04-29T03:21:47 < zyp> yes, and it should be analogous to having an ISR resume a thread to handle an event rather than process it directly
2020-04-29T03:21:58 < Thorn> the event loop shouldn't have to know about particular Awaitable types though
2020-04-29T03:22:28 < Thorn> because new Awaitables can come from an external library for example
2020-04-29T03:22:47 < zyp> I figure one way to take a lot of magic out of everything would be having a poll() method on the Awaitable
2020-04-29T03:23:03 < zyp> event loop could just poll it to see if it's ready, which polls the register
2020-04-29T03:23:21 < zyp> removes a bunch of the interrupt complexity
2020-04-29T03:23:49 < zyp> and depending on how many events you wait for at the same time it might even reduce latency
2020-04-29T03:23:50 < Thorn> yeah c++20 style busy waiting lol
2020-04-29T03:24:02 < zyp> entering and exiting interrupts takes cycles too :)
2020-04-29T03:24:09 < zyp> exactly
2020-04-29T03:24:25 < zyp> not good for power saving, but otherwise quite feasible
2020-04-29T03:24:26 < Thorn> if you don't need to sleep to conserve power it may well be an alternative
2020-04-29T03:25:36 < Thorn> I need to figure out how coroutine handles are mapped to coroutine state (are they just pointers?)
2020-04-29T03:25:49 < zyp> some years ago, I were brainstorming around making a framework for threads waiting for events through interrupts
2020-04-29T03:25:56 < zyp> but I never made anything useful
2020-04-29T03:26:13 < zyp> same thing should apply here though
2020-04-29T03:26:49 < zyp> also I'm looking forward to see what you end up with, I'd really like to use coroutines for my usb stack eventually
2020-04-29T03:27:06 < Thorn> yeah I'll make sure to share it
2020-04-29T03:27:40 < zyp> speaking of, I've started preparing for adding risc-v support to laks
2020-04-29T03:28:15 < zyp> so I can run laks/usb with my own usb core
2020-04-29T03:29:17 < Thorn> is risc-v gcc being kept up to date?
2020-04-29T03:29:31 < Thorn> so that you can use c++20 there
2020-04-29T03:29:42 < zyp> haven't looked in detail, but I believe so, risc-v seems pretty hot nowadays
2020-04-29T03:30:17 < zyp> the toolchain I've got installed is gcc 9.2
2020-04-29T03:31:40 < Thorn> I'm still on 8.3 for arm lol
2020-04-29T03:31:48 < zyp> I'm still on 7.2 for arm :p
2020-04-29T03:32:57 < Thorn> https://www.phoronix.com/scan.php?page=news_item&px=Cpp20-Coroutines-GCC-10
2020-04-29T03:33:42 < zyp> my usb core is currently at the point where it can ACK setup packets: https://bin.jvnv.net/file/XrUxj.png
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2020-04-29T03:33:48 < Thorn> looks like at least gcc 10 is needed
2020-04-29T03:33:56  * karlp naiively thought c++ was so awesome it didn't need coroutines...
2020-04-29T03:34:10 < zyp> but I haven't hooked it up to memory yet, so the contents of the packet is just dropped
2020-04-29T03:35:43 < zyp> I figure as soon as I do stuff the packet into memory, I'm going to want to have something interpret it, and so I've been working on adding a vexriscv core and getting the tools around that going today
2020-04-29T03:35:56 < specing> Maybe in 2030 C++ will have all the features Ada had in '95 XD
2020-04-29T03:37:32 < zyp> I figure that to start with I'm gonna keep a plain packet buffer with an area for each endpoint, similar to what st_usbfs does, that's the easiest starting point
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2020-04-29T03:38:26 < Thorn> specing <Thorn> does ada have stackless coroutines?
2020-04-29T03:39:10 < specing> I don't know the implementation details behind Ada tasking
2020-04-29T03:44:20 < specing> There is the Ravenscar tasking runtime for stm32, but I have not used it yet
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2020-04-29T04:02:07 < Thorn> The switch enables the MOVDIRI MOVDIR64B AVX512VP2INTERSECT ISA extensions
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2020-04-29T10:56:37 < upgrdman> a while ago i optimized some of my code by moving some math from the cpu to the gpu (into the vertex shader). benchmarking revealed that i saved ~5ms of cpu usage, but added ~5ms of gpu usage (per frame). i am using integrated graphics (intel mobile i7) ... anyone know if intel gpus share ALUs or whatever with the cpu?
2020-04-29T10:59:38 < Ultrasauce> more likely that the ogl implementation just does vertex processing on the cpu and it gets counted as gpu time because the metrics are bad
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2020-04-29T12:05:32 < jadew`> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MtdupS0gRt0
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2020-04-29T12:25:56 < zyp> sharing ALU with the cpu doesn't sound sensible
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2020-04-29T12:30:36 < antto> <share_the_load.gif>
2020-04-29T12:32:22 < Steffanx> Whoa antto is alive \o/
2020-04-29T12:32:33 < Steffanx> How's antto doing in those difficult times
2020-04-29T12:33:06 < antto> as always
2020-04-29T12:33:50 < Steffanx> Excellent. It's always good when nothing changes.
2020-04-29T12:34:06 -!- Mangy_Dog [~Mangy_Dog@unaffiliated/mangy-dog/x-3069595] has joined ##stm32
2020-04-29T12:44:06 < antto> muh cat doesn't let me kicad
2020-04-29T12:44:23 < srk> <3
2020-04-29T12:45:01 < antto> https://i.imgur.com/Xf7KrMq.jpg
2020-04-29T12:45:32 < antto> she sniffin da nylonz
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2020-04-29T12:52:30  * Streaker clicked on link expecting to see underwear
2020-04-29T12:57:08 < antto> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bwO0zPMUp_U
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2020-04-29T13:12:57 < karlp> specing:maybe in 2030 ada will have users? :)
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2020-04-29T13:16:44 < Steffanx> autch.
2020-04-29T13:17:38 < Steffanx> outch.. not sure what the proper english way to say that is.
2020-04-29T13:17:46 < Steffanx> Gooday mr Thorn. long time no see
2020-04-29T13:17:52 < Steffanx> *tcth
2020-04-29T13:17:52 < Steffanx> lol
2020-04-29T13:18:23 < antto> "ouch"
2020-04-29T13:18:26 < Thorn> oh nice. first time in 10 years you say hi and it's a mistake
2020-04-29T13:18:38 < Steffanx> lol Thorn
2020-04-29T13:19:03 < Steffanx> could it be you never join the channel and are always here?
2020-04-29T13:19:17 < zyp> aww
2020-04-29T13:19:37 < tcth> morning
2020-04-29T13:19:40 < antto> no, i get "hi" from you all the time
2020-04-29T13:20:00 < antto> you are clearly biased
2020-04-29T13:20:03 < Steffanx> afternoon tcth
2020-04-29T13:20:59 < Steffanx> Got coronizzled yet, tcth?
2020-04-29T13:21:20 < tcth> nah
2020-04-29T13:21:22 < tcth> I don´t do that
2020-04-29T13:23:09 < specing> karlp: it already has users
2020-04-29T13:23:26 < specing> Its used pretty much everywhere where safety and reliability is a design requirement
2020-04-29T13:26:58 < tcth> are we talking about ada?
2020-04-29T13:27:31 < Steffanx> What else?
2020-04-29T13:27:39 < tcth> ugfx licensing
2020-04-29T13:27:45 < Steffanx> Not nespresso at least.
2020-04-29T13:28:45 < Steffanx> nah only jpa- does that.
2020-04-29T13:28:56 < Steffanx> He likes it more than he wants to admit
2020-04-29T13:31:38 < antto> https://i.imgur.com/2E9Hv6t.jpg
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2020-04-29T13:37:27 < Steffanx> :)
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2020-04-29T14:29:12 < zyp> did anybody play around with gd32v yet?
2020-04-29T14:50:40 < Thorn> does coax length need to be n * 1/2 wave or something like that in practice? or nodes/antinodes are only a feature of standing waves and if the load is matched you can have theoretically maximum energy transfer regardless of transmission line length?
2020-04-29T14:57:00 < zyp> the latter, I believe
2020-04-29T14:57:51 < Thorn> this guy says feed line (i.e. coax) has to be n * 1/2 corrected for wave speed in coax http://niklaslofgren.net/gliding/flarmantenna/flarmantenna.html
2020-04-29T14:57:58 < Thorn> is that a feature of that particular antenna?
2020-04-29T14:58:24 < zyp> I figure a transmission line is a tube, you stuff in electrons in one end, they come out the other end and as long as you don't have any reflections you won't have any resonance phenomena either
2020-04-29T15:00:02 < zyp> the length affects the delay in the line, but as long as the transmitting and receiving ends are independent, they don't care about the delay
2020-04-29T15:00:36 < zyp> now, once you add reflectons, the delay affects whether the phase between the original signal and the reflected signal
2020-04-29T15:00:44 < zyp> -whether
2020-04-29T15:03:15 < zyp> I figure if you have some reflections, tuning the cable to be a multiple of a half wavelength makes them arrive in phase with the original signal
2020-04-29T15:03:27 < zyp> which could be beneficial
2020-04-29T15:03:54 < zyp> also I'm not an expert on RF or transmission lines so I might be full of shit
2020-04-29T15:21:33 < strata> ==> Updated version: openocd-git 0.10.0.r1204.gc60252ac2-1
2020-04-29T15:21:35 < strata> ==> Starting build()...
2020-04-29T15:21:37 < strata> patching file contrib/loaders/flash/stm32/stm32l4x.S
2020-04-29T15:21:49 < strata> orly... stm32g0/g4 finally made it into openocd ?!
2020-04-29T15:22:04 < PaulFertser> strata: ST contributes to OpenOCD directly these days.
2020-04-29T15:22:05 < strata> Reversed (or previously applied) patch detected!  Skipping patch.
2020-04-29T15:22:24 < strata> the g0/g4 patch won't apply... because it appears it's in openocd-git
2020-04-29T15:23:28 < strata> let's see...
2020-04-29T15:24:49 < mawk> the patch is already applied
2020-04-29T15:26:09 < strata> [~] % find /usr/share/openocd/scripts | grep -i stm32g 
2020-04-29T15:26:12 < strata> /usr/share/openocd/scripts/target/stm32g0x.cfg
2020-04-29T15:26:14 < strata> /usr/share/openocd/scripts/target/stm32g4x.cfg
2020-04-29T15:26:16 < strata> HOLY SHIIIIZZZNIZZLEEEE IT IS
2020-04-29T15:26:39 < strata> this makes me very happy
2020-04-29T15:26:53 < strata> no more shitfuckery with patches
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2020-04-29T15:49:05 < englishman> Thorn: that page is bs
2020-04-29T15:49:34 < englishman> well actually
2020-04-29T15:49:36 < englishman> what he says is true
2020-04-29T15:49:48 < englishman> but the 1/2 wave dipole is a pretty good match for 50r cable
2020-04-29T15:49:50 < englishman> so it doesnt matter
2020-04-29T15:50:35 < Thorn> englishman does it have to do with the lack of a balun?
2020-04-29T15:50:39 < englishman> yes
2020-04-29T15:51:03 < englishman> on my dipoles i put a lil 1:1.5 balun
2020-04-29T15:51:11 < englishman> or make a folded dipole
2020-04-29T15:51:18 < Thorn> made of coax?
2020-04-29T15:51:36 < englishman> both, but doing it in coax is tricky
2020-04-29T15:51:46 < englishman> and the difference in swr is negligible
2020-04-29T15:52:07 < englishman> if you are putting a dipole, just put a dipole
2020-04-29T15:52:54 < Thorn> I guess if I'm making a 868 MHz dipole out of pcb I might as well make a folded one
2020-04-29T15:53:05 < englishman> well, what is the application
2020-04-29T15:53:21 < Thorn> 868 MHz FSK stuff
2020-04-29T15:54:00 < Thorn> a piece of wire soldered into the pcb exhibits bad performance
2020-04-29T15:54:15 < englishman> what does the ground plane look like
2020-04-29T15:54:43 < Thorn> the pcb has a few cm of gnd plane (not sure, 5x5 or 5x10 cm)
2020-04-29T15:54:55 < Thorn> that's it
2020-04-29T15:58:18 < englishman> https://i.imgur.com/SexW66f.jpg
2020-04-29T15:58:21 < englishman> finally found a damn pic
2020-04-29T15:58:31 < englishman> https://i.imgur.com/kyDY95c.jpg
2020-04-29T15:58:33 < englishman> also made these
2020-04-29T15:58:49 < englishman> https://i.imgur.com/K3gKFw3.jpg
2020-04-29T15:59:55 < Thorn> I see what looks like a sot-23-5, is it the balun?
2020-04-29T16:00:26 < englishman> yes
2020-04-29T16:04:35 < Thorn> ok thanks, that's useful
2020-04-29T16:05:16 < englishman> the square one isn't a folded dipole it's a moxon, a little different, hard to make with wire but e z to make a pcb
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2020-04-29T16:09:55 < Thorn> the balun is 1:1.5 because impedance of a dipole is closer to 75Ω than 50Ω?
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2020-04-29T16:31:47 < englishman> exactly
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2020-04-29T17:41:32 < Thorn> torpedo commercial https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LlXbG3cXJSc
2020-04-29T17:46:23 < Steffanx> Saab -_-
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2020-04-29T18:04:37 < Thorn> live: war stories of stm32 development https://www.twitch.tv/yahardware
2020-04-29T18:06:10 < kakimir> ##rus32
2020-04-29T18:06:47 < kakimir> let's not pretend.. this channel is all russian
2020-04-29T18:07:20 < zyp> kakimir sounds pretty russian to me
2020-04-29T18:07:25 < emeb> hmmm... a few weeks ago it was all pandemic
2020-04-29T18:13:05 < kakimir> ##covid32
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2020-04-29T18:49:40 < Cracki> Thorn, needs moar makeup
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2020-04-29T18:54:06 < Thorn> the only war story so far is PB4 has a pullup in sleep mode (because JTRST) that can't be turned off
2020-04-29T19:02:19 < Steffanx> lol that guy is really in the basement.. so dark
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2020-04-29T20:32:14 < englishman> altium intlibs
2020-04-29T20:32:30 < englishman> so you make a libpkg project, collect the symbols and footprints, and compile them into an intlib
2020-04-29T20:32:47 < englishman> then you add the intlib to the installed libraries, or to the project directly
2020-04-29T20:33:22 < englishman> i understand that this makes a snapshot, an immutable, portable version of your libraries, but why not just copy the symbols/footprints then?
2020-04-29T20:33:41 < englishman> is the only advantage that it's immutable
2020-04-29T20:34:20 < englishman> i fail to see the big difference between a pair of files and one file
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2020-04-29T20:47:37 < machinehum2> autism
2020-04-29T20:47:49 -!- machinehum2 is now known as machinehum
2020-04-29T20:59:07 < Steffanx> Where ?
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2020-04-29T21:01:45 < zyp> englishman, can't you have more than one each of the schlib/pcblib going into the intlib?
2020-04-29T21:02:20 < zyp> so it might be the difference between ten and one files instead
2020-04-29T21:02:26 < zyp> more reasonable now?
2020-04-29T21:02:51 < Thorn> like .a vs .o?
2020-04-29T21:04:20 < englishman> yes i can certainly see that
2020-04-29T21:04:45 < englishman> so it's a directory
2020-04-29T21:04:50 < englishman> without calling it that
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2020-04-29T21:32:30 < zyp> englishman, also the building process does some consistency checks between symbols and footprints
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2020-04-29T21:38:38 < englishman> those kind of checks don't get done until pcb compile time if you don't use an intlib?
2020-04-29T21:38:41 < englishman> or they aren't done at all
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2020-04-29T22:04:03 < zyp> dunno
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2020-04-29T23:26:51 < kakinull> ikea lack is 19" rack?
2020-04-29T23:27:06 < kakinull> qyx
2020-04-29T23:34:12 < zyp> did qyx build a lack-rack?
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2020-04-29T23:35:47 < qyx> kakinull: yes
2020-04-29T23:36:06 < qyx> zyp: no, but I know it
2020-04-29T23:36:32 < kakinull> do you think it's coincidence?
2020-04-29T23:37:20 < Steffanx> Will qyx build a lack rack?
2020-04-29T23:39:36 < zyp> I used to have a lack-rack
2020-04-29T23:40:11 < zyp> https://bin.jvnv.net/file/nmouc.JPG
2020-04-29T23:41:57 < Steffanx> The good old rock in the basement 
2020-04-29T23:43:58 < zyp> yep
2020-04-29T23:44:59 < kakinull> that is lack?
2020-04-29T23:45:08 < kakinull> I thought it was steel frame
2020-04-29T23:45:18 < kakinull> but actually it's rainforrest
2020-04-29T23:46:40 < zyp> heh, only steel in that is the screws that holds the legs
2020-04-29T23:46:44 < kakinull> lack - prices starting from 8.99eur
2020-04-29T23:46:47 < zyp> the rest is mostly paper
2020-04-29T23:47:02 < kakinull> ah yes
2020-04-29T23:47:05 < zyp> yeah, the lack inflation has been crazy recently
2020-04-29T23:47:10 < zyp> they used to cost a third
2020-04-29T23:47:16 < kakinull> paper that mimmics wood
2020-04-29T23:47:25 < kakinull> honeycomb inside and stuff?
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2020-04-29T23:47:59 < zyp> yeah
2020-04-29T23:47:59 < kakinull> I see green 55cm x 55cm for 8.99eur
2020-04-29T23:48:13 < kakinull> white is 14.99eur
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2020-04-29T23:49:10 < zyp> the plain square one?
2020-04-29T23:49:23 < zyp> both black and white are 79 NOK now
2020-04-29T23:49:24 < kakinull> ye
2020-04-29T23:49:35 < zyp> the more fancy ones are 99 NOK
2020-04-29T23:50:08 < zyp> oh, and a glossy white for 129
2020-04-29T23:52:53 < Steffanx> Here the black one is 6 I recall
2020-04-29T23:53:06 < Steffanx> Eurobucks
--- Day changed Thu Apr 30 2020
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2020-04-30T00:52:23 < karlp> our ikea isn't even open
2020-04-30T00:52:27 < karlp> re-opens monday though
2020-04-30T00:54:50 < zyp> mine closed the restaurant but the rest is open
2020-04-30T00:55:53 < zyp> they're pretty hardcore on hygiene, they've literally got people wiping down the self checkout screens between every single customer
2020-04-30T00:57:04 < karlp> ours was doing pickups I think,
2020-04-30T00:57:07 < karlp> but not sure.
2020-04-30T00:57:28 < karlp> had a guy at the hardware store today trying to stand on my arse in the checkout line
2020-04-30T00:57:40 < karlp> everyone else nicely moving chunk by chuynk down the 2m markings
2020-04-30T00:57:53 < karlp> this guys was like "I'll go faster if I stand as close to him as I can!"
2020-04-30T00:57:56 < zyp> they do that too, if you order pickup they'll bring it out to the parking lot for you so you don't have to go inside
2020-04-30T00:58:05 < zyp> haha
2020-04-30T00:58:47 < karlp> I've been out of the house more int he last week than the last 2 months I think
2020-04-30T00:58:55 < karlp> thankfulyl it's quieted down a lot there
2020-04-30T00:59:01 < karlp> we'ðre having to do a lot of stuff for the new house
2020-04-30T00:59:14 < zyp> that's how getting a new house is :)
2020-04-30T00:59:19 < karlp> indeed :)
2020-04-30T00:59:24 < karlp> it's starting to look really nice though
2020-04-30T00:59:44 < zyp> I've lived here for a year and still got a bunch of stuff left to do
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2020-04-30T01:00:28 < karlp> we're really hoping to get most of it done before we move in
2020-04-30T01:00:35 < karlp> well, of the stuff we're planning
2020-04-30T01:00:45 < karlp> speaking of, I'm meant to be ordering some new wifi shits tonight I think
2020-04-30T01:00:54 < karlp> no mikrodik retailer here,
2020-04-30T01:01:00 < karlp> not sure I want to buy ubnt.
2020-04-30T01:01:30 < karlp> had my electrician around tonight to talk about how best to get some PoE ceiling shit in the right places and new ethernet and power for my desk corner though, all coming together
2020-04-30T01:02:32 < zyp> I haven't tried the mikrotik wifi things, but I assume the UI is just as terrible as on the switch I've got
2020-04-30T01:02:51 < qyx> wat
2020-04-30T01:02:59 < qyx> mikrotik has the bestest ui on the planet
2020-04-30T01:03:12 < zyp> it's fucking awful
2020-04-30T01:03:16 < qyx> which one
2020-04-30T01:03:28 < qyx> there is ssh, it is awesome
2020-04-30T01:03:35 < qyx> conceptual, nice, sane
2020-04-30T01:03:47 < qyx> winbox, it is grey, but awesome too
2020-04-30T01:03:54 < qyx> and there is webfig, which is terrible
2020-04-30T01:03:59 < qyx> but meh, ~usable
2020-04-30T01:04:15 < zyp> webfig is the webui? then that one
2020-04-30T01:04:19 < karlp> mikrodik "passive PoE" is "some magic proprietary non 802.3 stuff" right?
2020-04-30T01:04:20 < zyp> but I didn't like the CLI either
2020-04-30T01:04:36 < zyp> passive PoE is dumb 24V or whatever
2020-04-30T01:05:01 < qyx> passive poe on mikrotik is passive poe
2020-04-30T01:05:04 < qyx> nothing proprietary
2020-04-30T01:05:11 < qyx> idk how it works on gigabit though
2020-04-30T01:05:24 < qyx> it accepts 8-30V or so
2020-04-30T01:05:33 < qyx> some models up to 60V
2020-04-30T01:05:40 < zyp> on gigabit it works with CTs of course
2020-04-30T01:05:46 < zyp> (center taps)
2020-04-30T01:05:46 < karlp> sounds like trash unspecced wildly incompatible minefield
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2020-04-30T01:06:33 < zyp> in practice the only real hazard is feeding passive PoE into something that's not designed for PoE and burning out the 75ohm terminations
2020-04-30T01:06:35 < qyx> mirktoiks are 15y old and more
2020-04-30T01:07:03 < qyx> there was nothing usable and buyable for non moneyed easteners at that time
2020-04-30T01:07:22 < zyp> (and possibly feeding overvoltage into something)
2020-04-30T01:07:55 < zyp> but as long as you don't feed passive PoE to anything that doesn't expect it, you're good
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2020-04-30T01:09:07 < zyp> karlp, but what do you have against ubnt?
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2020-04-30T01:11:45 < zyp> the old UAP I've got have been working solid for like 8-9 years now, never an issue
2020-04-30T01:11:57 < qyx> also, read the previous conversation
2020-04-30T01:11:59 < zyp> and I've got no complaints about the UAP-AC-LITE that I picked up last year either
2020-04-30T01:12:01 < qyx> karlp: what do you expect?
2020-04-30T01:12:27 < qyx> ubnt, mikrotik and many otheres are using basically the same hardware
2020-04-30T01:12:33 < qyx> the difference is in the sw
2020-04-30T01:12:42 < qyx> it is like comparing cisco and some damned dlink home router
2020-04-30T01:13:00 < qyx> the CLI interface hasnt changed since their beginnings
2020-04-30T01:13:10 < karlp> just heard much mor emixed feedback on ubnt
2020-04-30T01:13:11 < qyx> same syntax, there are certifications for it, webinars, etc
2020-04-30T01:13:28 < qyx> you can export your text config as commands
2020-04-30T01:13:34 < qyx> then copy-paste to another router
2020-04-30T01:14:03 < karlp> did you guys here have some mikrodick CRSxxxx stuff too?
2020-04-30T01:14:04 < qyx> also feature-wise it is way further than any other
2020-04-30T01:14:15 < zyp> karlp, yes
2020-04-30T01:14:17 < qyx> not CRS, mainly cheaper stuff, wifi
2020-04-30T01:14:41 < karlp> qyx: who areyou saying feature wise it's way further feature wise? ubnt/mikrodick or what?
2020-04-30T01:14:59 < karlp> I was looking at a hAP AC for the loungeroom and a "cap ac" for the rest of the house.
2020-04-30T01:15:12 < qyx> mikrotik
2020-04-30T01:15:52 < qyx> I did  have some ubnts back in the days, their fw was bad
2020-04-30T01:15:57 < qyx> but it was long time ago
2020-04-30T01:16:02 < qyx> 2005 or so
2020-04-30T01:16:08 < qyx> when they were starting
2020-04-30T01:16:27 < zyp> karlp, what features do you want? ubnt has the controller thing that provisions config
2020-04-30T01:16:40 < Thorn> suddenly 24V, 1.2A, output 0.81...15V, cheap buck https://lcsc.com/product-detail/DC-DC-Converters_Monolithic-Power-Systems-MP2359DJ-LF-Z_C14259.html
2020-04-30T01:16:42 < qyx> mikrotik already had rb112 and rb133, the only routers capable of having miniPCI extension cards
2020-04-30T01:17:00 < karlp> zyp:  config to me is a oneoff, I don't really see it as a big deal
2020-04-30T01:17:26 < karlp> I'm not actually doing any silly split networks and shit either
2020-04-30T01:17:32 < Thorn> 350mΩ switch :(
2020-04-30T01:17:39 < zyp> me neither, but still nice to have it in one place
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2020-04-30T01:26:29 < karlp> heh, ubnt will sell me shit for like 600$
2020-04-30T01:26:59 < englishman> fuck ubiquiti
2020-04-30T01:29:07 < karlp> but englishman: https://store.amplifi.com/products/amplifi-alien-router-mesh
2020-04-30T01:29:25 < zyp> fuck the amplifi shit
2020-04-30T01:29:31 < zyp> that's consumer toys
2020-04-30T01:29:54 < zyp> I mean, it's probably decent for being consumer toys, but still, fuck that
2020-04-30T01:30:07 < Steffanx> Such language 
2020-04-30T01:30:13 < karlp> yeah, it looks dumb
2020-04-30T01:30:20 < karlp> I don't think I want to buy ubnt stuff
2020-04-30T01:31:23 < englishman> lol wtf is that
2020-04-30T01:31:30 < englishman> its 4x the price of google wifi
2020-04-30T01:31:42 < karlp> I just need a shop now...
2020-04-30T01:31:58 < zyp> it's also like 10x the price of unifi
2020-04-30T01:32:57 < Steffanx> Isn't eurodk where everyone and his mother gets mikrodik stuff? But yeah thats not iceland
2020-04-30T01:33:02 < zyp> yes
2020-04-30T01:33:22 < zyp> except now stuff is available from norwegian distributors for less than eurodk
2020-04-30T01:33:32 < Steffanx> Aha
2020-04-30T01:34:19 < zyp> still haven't bought the new switch though
2020-04-30T01:34:38 < zyp> maybe they'll release a better one before I do :p
2020-04-30T01:35:07 < qyx> easteners are getting mikrotiks from i4wifi
2020-04-30T01:35:19 < qyx> also multiple other distributors
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2020-04-30T01:44:58 < karlp> ok eurodk looks good, just don't have stock of the hap ac until "tomorrow"
2020-04-30T01:45:29 < karlp> sorry, friday
2020-04-30T01:45:34 < karlp> ok. those problems sovled for now
2020-04-30T02:05:58 < zyp> ha, fun, compiling without linking the startup code doesn't fail
2020-04-30T02:06:12 < zyp> I'm trying to link only main.o, which succeeds
2020-04-30T02:06:28 < zyp> results in an empty executable since nothing references main() :)
2020-04-30T02:07:16 < zyp> without gc-sections it still doesn't complain
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2020-04-30T03:00:45 < zyp> hmm, didn't take too much work to get enough of laks in place to get to main() on riscv
2020-04-30T03:02:44 < mawk> is that an indian word
2020-04-30T03:03:12 < zyp> startup code mostly works as is, just had to add an assembly trampoline in front of it to set up the stack pointer since riscv doesn't do that in hardware like cortex-m
2020-04-30T03:04:07 < zyp> also had to fix some alignment issues in the linker script but otherwise that works as is
2020-04-30T03:04:38 < zyp> should give that a proper cleanup some day, strip out unnecessary cruft
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2020-04-30T04:02:14 < fenugrec> what kind of microscope / magnifying optical aid does ##stm32 use ? I swear those 0603 are smaller than they used to be not 15 years ago
2020-04-30T04:02:34 < fenugrec> I'm thinking a binocular thing with about 80-100mm working distance, sound about right ?
2020-04-30T04:04:22 < zyp> never tried one I've liked, dreading the day I'll feel like I need one
2020-04-30T04:04:49 < strata> i got lucky
2020-04-30T04:05:05 < strata> i can see 0402 just fine without magnification but don't ask me what a road sign 10 ft away says.
2020-04-30T04:06:40 < fenugrec> heh. I can solder them just fine but I find I need to bend down pretty close, I could lower my chair I guess but I need to bust out a magnifying glass anyway to verify any QFP / TSSOP
2020-04-30T04:07:16 < zyp> heh, I do lower my chair when I solder
2020-04-30T04:09:09 < englishman> cheap binocular thing from microscopenet and a 0.5x to increase working distance, also brings it up to a comfortable height to use while seated
2020-04-30T04:09:28 < zyp> the thing I don't like about magnifiers/microscopes is how they fuck with depth perception
2020-04-30T04:10:01 < englishman> tbh I don't know how I worked on stuff before it. it's so comfortable, bright and easy to use
2020-04-30T04:10:21 < fenugrec> englishman, so around 10x total mag ? (eyepiece 10, typical lens x2, adapter 0.5)
2020-04-30T04:10:37 < englishman> let me check
2020-04-30T04:11:03 < fenugrec> I used one a while ago enough to get used to it, I kinda miss the comfortable seating and bionic vision. No idea what kind of setup it was
2020-04-30T04:11:50 < englishman> 1 x 0.5X Auxiliary Objective Lens for Stereo Microscope D48mm (AJ6D5AUX1) = US$48.99
2020-04-30T04:11:51 < englishman> 1 x OMAX 6.7X-45X Simal-focal Stereo Microscope on Articulated Stand with 144 LED Light and 9.0MP Camera (W43DF1-L144L-C90U) = US$959.99
2020-04-30T04:11:57 < englishman> the camera was junk
2020-04-30T04:12:23 < fenugrec> Saw tons of OMAX on ebay, assumed they were cheap garbage but 900 ain't cheap
2020-04-30T04:12:56 < englishman> so total 3.2x - 23x
2020-04-30T04:13:09 < englishman> most of the time hovering around 3-10x id guess
2020-04-30T04:14:00 < fenugrec> interesting. Do the fumes make a mess on the lens or do you have ventilation ?
2020-04-30T04:14:17 < englishman> the camera and even the trinocular version isn't necessary. the light is necessary and the boom stand is very handy though can shake a little if there is something vibrating or your floor typically shakes when a truck goes by
2020-04-30T04:14:25 < englishman> never had a problem with fumes
2020-04-30T04:14:32 < englishman> never cleaned it
2020-04-30T04:17:42 < aandrew> fenugrec: I have an 8yo now (wow time flies) amscope trinocular inspection scope 0.4...3.something? with the x10wf eyepieces
2020-04-30T04:18:26 < aandrew> strata: yeah I'm fantastically nearsighted too, although in the last year I find I can no longer counteract my eyeglasses when looking up close, I am constantly taking the fucking things off and on
2020-04-30T04:21:31 < aandrew> I recently added a barlow lens to it so it gives me more space to work
2020-04-30T04:21:58 < fenugrec> aandrew, what sort of working distance before/after ?
2020-04-30T04:22:05 < fenugrec> depends on zoom I guess
2020-04-30T04:22:11 < aandrew> yeah camera/trinoc is not useful, but if you insist don't use a shitty usb webcam, way too much lag
2020-04-30T04:22:35 < aandrew> I don't remember to be honest. "enough" in both cases, but with the barlow lens I get antoher 2-3 inches I'd say
2020-04-30T04:22:52 < aandrew> I used it for 7 years without the barlow lens
2020-04-30T04:23:18 < aandrew> no real issues, but yes high zoom and dense boards was getting a little cramped when I had scope probes and soldering stuff in there
2020-04-30T04:32:53 < aandrew> https://i.imgur.com/n3kyMFJ.png
2020-04-30T04:56:06 < Cracki> attn jadew ^
2020-04-30T05:00:33 < jadew`> heh
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2020-04-30T05:42:23 < Ultrasauce> fenugrec: SM-4TPZ
2020-04-30T05:42:36 < Ultrasauce> oh he left
2020-04-30T05:51:31 < dongs> o shii, huawei gonna use st fabs to make more anti-american chips
2020-04-30T05:51:32 < dongs> feer
2020-04-30T05:59:05 < dongs> https://www.indiegogo.com/projects/fuelpay-generate-free-fuel#/ zyp is up to no good
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2020-04-30T06:37:17 < boddax> Hi3516C V300 interesting chip . https://www.silicondevice.com/file.upload/images/Gid1072Pdf_Hi3516CV300%20(1).pdf
2020-04-30T06:37:27 < boddax> there similar stm32 ?
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2020-04-30T07:30:50 < englishman> wtf does it do, record all your conversations?
2020-04-30T07:31:01 < englishman> how can that be worth $100 of gas for a 30 minute drive
2020-04-30T07:31:34 < englishman> a buttcoin miner powered off 12V 1A????
2020-04-30T07:31:57 < englishman> surely that wont pay more than 3c per thousand years
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2020-04-30T08:52:08 < upgrdman> just starting playing with geometry shaders. kinda fun. i guess now would be a good time to look into compute shaders finally
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2020-04-30T10:42:29 < Thorn> suddenly cheap cortex-A5 https://www.microchip.com/design-centers/32-bit-mpus/microprocessors/sama5/sama5d2-series
2020-04-30T10:46:28 < Spirit532> 5k pricing
2020-04-30T10:46:55 < Spirit532> and the most useful parts are $7 and $28 in 5k
2020-04-30T10:47:12 < Spirit532> with a MOQ
2020-04-30T10:53:12 < qyx> what
2020-04-30T10:53:26 < qyx> https://www.mouser.sk/ProductDetail/Microchip-Technology-Atmel/ATSAMA5D27C-D1G-CU?qs=sGAEpiMZZMve4%2FbfQkoj%252BD1y8JgKlTT7dhuCDJAi45s%3D
2020-04-30T10:53:33 < qyx> 12e in singles incl. DRAM
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2020-04-30T10:56:16 < upgrdman_> lol "As of this writing, the latest version of BLA is 2.3.0.1041. BLA can be obtained by sending email to batterylifeanalyzer@intel.com." good job intel.
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2020-04-30T10:56:31 < upgrdman_> need to email to download a free intel app
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2020-04-30T13:30:07 < Steffanx> Lol. TI PurePath tooling. You download an installer for a downloader for a downloader for the tool/sw you want to play with. -_-
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2020-04-30T13:37:47 < Thorn> has anyone used an integrated i2s dac + class d amp (<=1W)?
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2020-04-30T13:58:02 < Steffanx> No, I'm playing with the TAS5805M. The ic itself is cool, but the datasheet.. damn its terrible
2020-04-30T13:58:21 < Steffanx> All kinds of info and calculation methods are missing
2020-04-30T13:58:35 < Steffanx> No proper register info for some parts
2020-04-30T13:59:17 < mawk> are you turning audiophile Steffanx ????
2020-04-30T14:00:10 < mawk> "Featuring TI’s proprietary Hybrid Modulation scheme, the TAS5805M consumes very-low quiescent current (16.5 mA at 13.5 V PVDD)" is that low though
2020-04-30T14:00:59 < Steffanx> No, I'm not. But this oidio project at work uses it
2020-04-30T14:02:03 < Thorn> I need Vdd = 3.5...4.5V
2020-04-30T14:02:35 < Thorn> diodes PAM8xxx don't even specify current in shutdown mode, how's that for a bad datasheet
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2020-04-30T14:22:56 < Thorn> >google i2s class d amp
2020-04-30T14:23:08 < Thorn> >first hit: aidsfruit breakout with MAX98357A
2020-04-30T14:23:12 < Thorn> >do research
2020-04-30T14:23:17 < Thorn> >MAX98357A is actually best
2020-04-30T14:23:58 < mawk> of course
2020-04-30T14:24:01 < mawk> they only choose best
2020-04-30T14:24:08 < mawk> what do you think
2020-04-30T14:28:42 < Steffanx> Hah
2020-04-30T14:28:49 < Steffanx> Gooday Thorn  
2020-04-30T14:29:04 < Thorn> hi Mr Steffanx 
2020-04-30T14:30:44 < Thorn> ... except the master clock issue
2020-04-30T14:30:56 < Thorn> would be a shame if nrf can't work with it
2020-04-30T14:39:57 < Thorn> looks like I can actually obtain LRCK = 32 kHz (supported by the MAX) from 32 MHz (nRF system clock)
2020-04-30T14:40:39 < mawk> you can always obtain that kind of thing right
2020-04-30T14:40:58 < mawk> with a few components
2020-04-30T14:43:53 < Steffanx> But components = ₽₽₽
2020-04-30T14:51:59 < Thorn> it can't be a master so the nrf has to be the master. and if nrf is the master then it generates all its clocks internally
2020-04-30T14:52:32 < Thorn> so you can't use an external clock in this system
2020-04-30T14:54:31 < Thorn> thankfully the closest nrf can get to 32 kHz fits pretty well into one of the MAX's supported LRCK ranges (Range 3, 30.4...50.4 kHz)
2020-04-30T14:58:08 < aandrew> I used a different amp
2020-04-30T14:58:10 < aandrew> some TI thing
2020-04-30T14:58:15 < aandrew> one moment let me see if I can look it up
2020-04-30T14:58:26 < Thorn> TAS5xxx?
2020-04-30T14:59:42 < aandrew> sounds right
2020-04-30T14:59:56 < Thorn> most of them seem to be WLCSP
2020-04-30T15:00:06 < Thorn> I don't want an HDI board
2020-04-30T15:01:11 < aandrew> TAS2521
2020-04-30T15:02:01 < aandrew> 4mm QFN
2020-04-30T15:02:10 < aandrew> my needs were mono; not sure if that works for you
2020-04-30T15:02:52 < Thorn> yeah that's what I need too
2020-04-30T15:03:00 < aandrew> I tend to avoid maxim just because they have given me trouble in the past with availability
2020-04-30T15:03:41 < aandrew> and they are rather niche; lots of cool chips but they're the only vendor and nobody has anything even close
2020-04-30T15:03:54 < aandrew> not the case with the amp of course, or the rs232/485 drivers
2020-04-30T15:05:01 < aandrew> there is a TAS2505 as well, but I have not evaluated
2020-04-30T15:05:14 < Thorn> that MAX amp is very unique, it's a no-MCLK, no-I2C architecture. "just plug in you digital audio and it will magically know what to do wit it"
2020-04-30T15:05:39 < Thorn> this TAS2521 looks much more conventional
2020-04-30T15:06:14 < aandrew> yeah it wasn't hard to get set up; I didn't spend any time tweaking/tuning
2020-04-30T15:06:19 < Thorn> let me check what kind of mclk it needs
2020-04-30T15:06:25 < aandrew> used some example init from the app note
2020-04-30T15:16:54 < Thorn> oh it even has a pll
2020-04-30T15:35:45 < Thorn> thanks aandrew
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2020-04-30T16:16:34 < Steffanx> But does it have a DSP inside like the TAS5805M? :)
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2020-04-30T16:19:15  * con3 hates transformers
2020-04-30T16:20:49 < con3> https://www.reddit.com/r/electronics/comments/gacne0/some_pcbs_are_just_pure_porn/
2020-04-30T16:21:43 < dongs> 1,337 points 
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2020-04-30T16:29:12 < PaulFertser> Hey dongs :) do you probably have any idea when Japan post is going to resume airmail operations?
2020-04-30T16:30:00 < zyp> Japan is currently on the list of countries I can ship to
2020-04-30T16:30:43 < PaulFertser> But my question is about the reverse way.
2020-04-30T16:31:17 < zyp> yeah, I just figure that when there's enough flights to get mail one way, it should be possible to get mail the other way too, planes don't fly empty back
2020-04-30T16:31:32 < PaulFertser> Yeah, makes perfect sense.
2020-04-30T16:31:40 < PaulFertser> So the current situation is kind of weird.
2020-04-30T16:32:35 < PaulFertser> Those who use electric vehicles (including dongs with his monowheel), how do you protect from the risk of explosion/fire when charging?
2020-04-30T16:33:12 < mawk> charge it in a fireproof apparatus
2020-04-30T16:33:20 < mawk> made of bricks
2020-04-30T16:34:57 < zyp> PaulFertser, like my car? I assume it's built to stringent enough safety standards that the risk is negligible
2020-04-30T16:35:13 < PaulFertser> zyp: no, I mean e-bikes, scooters etc
2020-04-30T16:36:41 < zyp> the ebikes I usually charge with the batteries sitting on the bike frame, I figure that keeps them far enough from other flammable materials it can spread to, should they catch fire
2020-04-30T16:36:59 < zyp> otherwise lying on the concrete floor
2020-04-30T16:37:00 < PaulFertser> mawk: kinda hard to implement in a multi-apartment building. Also, there're cases where a real explosion happened (probably due to hydrogen accumulation) so probably bricks won't be enough.
2020-04-30T16:37:57 < zyp> I also accept the fact that nothing is entirely risk free and have fire insurance for the house
2020-04-30T16:37:57 < PaulFertser> Some photos here https://electrotransport.ru/ussr/index.php?topic=60986.0
2020-04-30T16:44:16 < englishman> The wait operation timed out.
2020-04-30T16:44:18 < englishman> thanks rdp
2020-04-30T17:01:04 < Cracki> C pros: is uint32_t foo[42] = {0} (local variable) enough to initialize _all_ elements to 0 or just the first?
2020-04-30T17:03:19 < Cracki> (yes this is the first time I cared about it enough to also look into cppreference)
2020-04-30T17:03:46 < zyp> AFAIK yes
2020-04-30T17:04:37 < zyp> I believe that you can only have arrays completely initialized or not at all
2020-04-30T17:04:41 < Cracki> I guess that's because >All array elements that are not initialized explicitly are initialized implicitly the same way as objects that have static storage duration.
2020-04-30T17:05:05 < Cracki> that's what I get from it too. thx.
2020-04-30T17:07:27 < qyx> Cracki: yes
2020-04-30T17:14:27 < Thorn> do smartphones shut down ram in sleep mode?
2020-04-30T17:24:20 < specing> no
2020-04-30T17:24:35 < specing> that'd wear down the flash a bit too much
2020-04-30T17:25:11 < englishman> one advantage of IntLib is that it is 2x larger than the PcbLib and SchLib files combined
2020-04-30T17:46:57 < mawk> it initializes all Cracki 
2020-04-30T17:47:13 < mawk> even {}
2020-04-30T17:47:28 < mawk> I guess
2020-04-30T17:48:06 < mawk> hmm only in C++
2020-04-30T17:48:09 < mawk> in C it's {0}
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2020-04-30T17:59:24 < kakimir> https://drive.google.com/file/d/16MLR9VdTSus7f5enUoilZYySBMrGaGL9/view?usp=sharing my poopoo arrived
2020-04-30T18:00:06 < mawk> lol
2020-04-30T18:00:08 < mawk> kakigate
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2020-04-30T18:05:08 < zyp> kakimir, nice
2020-04-30T18:05:13 < zyp> does it work? :p
2020-04-30T18:06:30 < kakimir> idk
2020-04-30T18:06:49 < kakimir> I need to establish a dormant company for buying solder paste for personal use
2020-04-30T18:07:12 < kakimir> also I need to buy versa
2020-04-30T18:07:20 < zyp> where did you fab that and how much was it?
2020-04-30T18:07:27 < kakimir> pcbway
2020-04-30T18:07:40 < kakimir> 4layer 5/5mil 0.3 holes
2020-04-30T18:07:56 < kakimir> something like +40usd for 10pcs
2020-04-30T18:08:25 < zyp> what about the flex?
2020-04-30T18:08:25 < kakimir> and the flex was something like 111usd
2020-04-30T18:08:30 < kakimir> 20pcs
2020-04-30T18:08:40 < kakimir> ofc the quantity didn't really matter
2020-04-30T18:09:02 < kakimir> it's basically 111usd or so
2020-04-30T18:09:34 < kakimir> it has 0.15mm vias
2020-04-30T18:09:38 < mawk> it's a sixth of the devil
2020-04-30T18:09:56 < kakimir> good
2020-04-30T18:10:40 < mawk> you have crosses tilted 30° in your living room ?
2020-04-30T18:10:54 < kakimir> no
2020-04-30T18:11:15 < kakimir> only cross I have is in my jägermeister mirror
2020-04-30T18:11:26 < mawk> lol
2020-04-30T18:11:32 < mawk> with the moose head or something
2020-04-30T18:11:36 < kakimir> yes
2020-04-30T18:11:45 < kakimir> I cannot turn down free stuff
2020-04-30T18:12:51 < kakimir> also I have steel cross behind the moose skull
2020-04-30T18:13:22 < kakimir> it has hooks in it to hold the back plate of moose skull
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2020-04-30T19:37:48 < Steffanx> $110 isn't that your monthly budget as a doler?
2020-04-30T19:37:54 < Steffanx> @ kakimir 
2020-04-30T19:38:28 < mawk> he said $111
2020-04-30T19:38:33 < mawk> you're not following Steffanx 
2020-04-30T19:39:14 < Steffanx> No, $1 was of the next month's budget
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2020-04-30T19:41:52 < Steffanx> Hello mawk. Hows your covid-19?
2020-04-30T19:42:23 < mawk> my pet covid is fine
2020-04-30T19:42:37 < Steffanx> Is it still causing fever?
2020-04-30T19:42:50 < mawk> no
2020-04-30T19:43:00 < Steffanx> Good
2020-04-30T19:43:13 < mawk> I'm a fresh young man free of any illness
2020-04-30T19:44:07 < Steffanx> Afayk
2020-04-30T19:44:24 < Steffanx> Mental illness :P
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2020-04-30T20:34:29 < boddax> mawk are you looney ?  :==
2020-04-30T20:35:01 < mawk> :( no
2020-04-30T20:35:05 < mawk> I'm perfectly fine
2020-04-30T20:35:38 < srk> just don't say you're a normie
2020-04-30T20:36:34 < mawk> I just don't have a prioris against socially forbidden stuff
2020-04-30T20:36:43 < mawk> which led me to some things
2020-04-30T20:36:52 < mawk> see I speek latin
2020-04-30T20:37:03 < mawk> where's my phd
2020-04-30T20:37:25 < Steffanx> In your pocket?
2020-04-30T20:37:44 < srk> mawk et al. - socially forbidden stuff
2020-04-30T20:37:57 < Steffanx> Don't get a PhD. You'll become a looney like blaxter
2020-04-30T20:38:16 < specing> blaxter has a PhD?
2020-04-30T20:38:20 < Steffanx> Yeah
2020-04-30T20:38:25 < srk> whos blaxter
2020-04-30T20:38:29 < specing> wtf
2020-04-30T20:38:34 < Steffanx> Laurence 
2020-04-30T20:38:40 < srk> right
2020-04-30T20:38:45 < srk> :D
2020-04-30T20:38:48 < specing> he speaks like someone from highschool
2020-04-30T20:40:13 < BrainDamage> https://invidio.us/watch?v=_nLA5kXui2M musicspam, starts weird but gets quite good
2020-04-30T20:40:21 < englishman> blaxter is the highest educated person in the chat
2020-04-30T20:40:35 < Steffanx> Is he?
2020-04-30T20:40:48 < mawk> probably
2020-04-30T20:40:58 < kakimir> yes
2020-04-30T20:41:05 < kakimir> he is like rocket engineer level
2020-04-30T20:41:15 < Steffanx> Oh its not Dr. BrainDamage ?
2020-04-30T20:41:18 < englishman> rocket scientist
2020-04-30T20:41:22 < englishman> engineering is far below him
2020-04-30T20:41:23 < mawk> it's a tie
2020-04-30T20:41:25 < Steffanx> Rockoon.
2020-04-30T20:41:37 < BrainDamage> I don't have a phd
2020-04-30T20:41:49 < mawk> yeah but you deserve one
2020-04-30T20:41:51 < englishman> if BrainDamage has a phd, he has not announced it as often as blaxter, so he doesn't count
2020-04-30T20:42:11 < Steffanx> Haha 
2020-04-30T20:42:37 < con3> I dont wanna brag but i have a GED
2020-04-30T20:43:00 < Steffanx> General education diploma?
2020-04-30T20:43:03 < englishman> any other link BrainDamage? it isn't loading
2020-04-30T20:43:07 < zyp> rocket science is not really that hard, I did that in high school
2020-04-30T20:43:17 < BrainDamage> englishman: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_nLA5kXui2M
2020-04-30T20:43:27 < Steffanx> But what about rockoons zyp?
2020-04-30T20:43:29 < englishman> oh, it's like your nitter
2020-04-30T20:43:49 < BrainDamage> yes, I have alternatives for youtube, twitter and instagram
2020-04-30T20:43:53 < con3> Steffanx: yep, i dont count my undergrad. Doesnt feel like i learnt anything there
2020-04-30T20:44:03 < zyp> Steffanx, no, we just did stuff that works
2020-04-30T20:44:12 < Steffanx> That's no fun
2020-04-30T20:44:15 < BrainDamage> that burn
2020-04-30T20:44:51 < Steffanx> Didn't you the simulations in math lab?
2020-04-30T20:45:10 < mawk> dutchies love to omit the verb
2020-04-30T20:45:20 < mawk> and to say "when" instead of "if"
2020-04-30T20:45:24 < mawk> isn't it Steffanx 
2020-04-30T20:45:51 < Steffanx> *do
2020-04-30T20:46:07 < Steffanx> No, I just forgot to write it mr mawk
2020-04-30T20:46:16 < mawk> noooo
2020-04-30T20:46:21 < mawk> you're dutch
2020-04-30T20:46:37 < mawk> so you omit verbs; my theory is flawless
2020-04-30T20:46:49 < Steffanx> And when/if, I guess you're right
2020-04-30T20:46:52 < mawk> mag ik de zout
2020-04-30T20:47:01 < mawk> verb is gone
2020-04-30T20:47:19 < Steffanx> I'm not sure why. Since we have "wanneer/als" as well.
2020-04-30T20:47:47 < Steffanx> Lol. Yeah we do that.
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2020-04-30T20:48:11 < Steffanx> But no one will look weird at you when you add the verb
2020-04-30T20:49:07 < BrainDamage> italians often omit the subject ... and almost everything but the verb
2020-04-30T20:49:11 < mawk> lol
2020-04-30T20:49:18 < mawk> "fuck ?"
2020-04-30T20:49:30 < BrainDamage> "piove" is a perfectly meaningful sentence in italian
2020-04-30T20:49:44 < BrainDamage> which gets translated to "it raints"
2020-04-30T20:49:49 < BrainDamage> rains
2020-04-30T20:51:41 < Steffanx> "Aah, rain" wouldn't work in English?
2020-04-30T20:51:48 < Steffanx> It certainly works in dutch
2020-04-30T20:54:58 < Steffanx> So do you speak fluently dutch yet mawk?
2020-04-30T20:54:58 < mawk> in french even a toddler wouldn't say it
2020-04-30T20:55:02 < mawk> almost
2020-04-30T20:55:07 < mawk> I can read the newspaper
2020-04-30T20:55:15 < mawk> delft op zondag or something
2020-04-30T20:55:36 < boddax> look like chinese
2020-04-30T20:55:47 < mawk> :(
2020-04-30T20:56:04 < boddax> speak chinese mawk
2020-04-30T20:56:14 < mawk> ik heb een coronatje
2020-04-30T20:56:44 < boddax> if you got covid collateral is speak chinese
2020-04-30T20:57:00 < mawk> lol
2020-04-30T20:57:05 < boddax> coronatje virusje
2020-04-30T20:58:45 < boddax> wuth romans colonization you learn to write over there
2020-04-30T20:59:39 < mawk> we had runic symbols
2020-04-30T20:59:43 < mawk> much cooler
2020-04-30T21:00:37 < boddax> gravestone 
2020-04-30T21:05:49 < Cracki> french https://twitter.com/CozyBond/status/1255623198365962246
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2020-04-30T21:18:47 < Steffanx> I would write "coronaatje" mawk :P
2020-04-30T21:19:37 < Steffanx> otherwise it would be "nat" like your gf :P
2020-04-30T21:21:27 < zyp> poffertjes
2020-04-30T21:23:59 < Steffanx> lol
2020-04-30T21:43:06 < kakimir> https://drive.google.com/file/d/16O-rXwnoK-68QoJiCH6A3cqScisF2NJy/view?usp=sharing how hot I can heat PI?
2020-04-30T21:44:12 < con3> " otherwise it would be "nat" like your gf :P " this sounds so dirty in afrikaans
2020-04-30T21:44:39 < con3> but assuming it means exactly the same in dutch
2020-04-30T21:45:00 < boddax> PI?
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2020-04-30T21:46:32 < kakimir> kapton
2020-04-30T21:46:37 < kakimir> polyamide
2020-04-30T21:46:44 < Steffanx> hah, true true con3
2020-04-30T21:47:01 < kakimir> I use soldering iron through the PI and wish it will melt the solder
2020-04-30T21:47:10 < con3> wonder if i could understand dutch if someone spoke to me
2020-04-30T21:47:43 < Steffanx> Weet ik niet :P
2020-04-30T21:49:19 < boddax> with your pro tools never melt kakimir
2020-04-30T21:49:30 < kakimir> ?
2020-04-30T21:49:54 < kakimir> you say I can throw as much heat at it I want?
2020-04-30T21:50:09 < kakimir> I wonder what the glue for stiffener does
2020-04-30T21:51:07 < boddax> aluminum on top?
2020-04-30T21:51:16 < boddax> foil
2020-04-30T21:54:06 < kakimir> 2sided copper
2020-04-30T21:54:15 < kakimir> and "soldermask"
2020-04-30T21:54:20 < kakimir> of sorts
2020-04-30T21:54:28 < kakimir> and stiffeners at end
2020-04-30T21:54:32 < kakimir> that is also PI
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2020-04-30T21:58:47 < kakimir> it will be rather interesting to solder that in place
2020-04-30T21:58:58 < kakimir> tolerance for placement is like 0.15mm
2020-04-30T21:59:01 < kakimir> or less
2020-04-30T21:59:08 < kakimir> also it flexes
2020-04-30T21:59:32 < kakimir> what a hell
2020-04-30T22:00:23 < kakimir> I should have made flexrigid 
2020-04-30T22:00:31 < kakimir> with tsop48 dummy
2020-04-30T22:01:26 < PaulFertser> Russian prime minister is SARS-CoV-2 positive
2020-04-30T22:01:57 < englishman> https://nationalpost.com/news/world/plague-doctor-u-k-police-search-for-person-in-full-17th-century-outfit-as-locals-express-alarm
2020-04-30T22:06:01 < kakimir> lurence memeing
2020-04-30T22:08:01 < Steffanx> where are jadew`s daily graphs btw?
2020-04-30T22:09:26 < Thorn> suddenly: rezonit.ru seems almost twice as cheap as jlcpcb for 6 layer prototypes if you're willing to wait 20 days, and still quite a bit cheaper for "expedited"
2020-04-30T22:09:49 < Thorn> (if you order 2 or 3 boards, not 5 that is)
2020-04-30T22:10:32 < PaulFertser> Do they even make them locally? Or order in China? :)
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2020-04-30T22:13:39 < Thorn> no idea. lead time is either 8 or 20 working days
2020-04-30T22:13:48 < Cracki> I'd like a plague doctor outfit too
2020-04-30T22:15:10 < zyp> Thorn, looks too russian though
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2020-04-30T23:15:08 < Thorn> how do you boot a SoC / flash lunix if the device has no sd card, just eMMC or some kind of flash chip?
2020-04-30T23:15:33 < PaulFertser> Some SoCs have USB bootloader.
2020-04-30T23:15:42 < PaulFertser> Some JTAG access
2020-04-30T23:15:55 < PaulFertser> Or UART.
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2020-04-30T23:19:06 < zyp> yes
2020-04-30T23:19:43 < zyp> e.g. rpi-cm with emmc have a bootloader that'll let it enumerate as a device you can talk to
2020-04-30T23:19:59 < zyp> usb-device, that is
2020-04-30T23:20:46 < zyp> not sure how it works in particular, maybe it just exports the entire emmc as a mass storage device so you don't need particular tools on the host
2020-04-30T23:21:33 < emeb> do you have to hold a particular signal in a certain state to access this?
2020-04-30T23:21:56 < emeb> or does it default to this if the booloader doesn't find an OS?
2020-04-30T23:22:07 < bitmask> hmm, $550 for railcore II or $315 for AM8 BLV
2020-04-30T23:22:47 < zyp> emeb, there's a signal to trigger it, not sure if it also falls into it if it doesn't find an OS
2020-04-30T23:23:15 < zyp> haven't tried it myself, just looked over the docs
2020-04-30T23:23:21 < emeb> cool. I had a potential client who was looking into doing some stuff with rpi-cm
2020-04-30T23:23:27 < emeb> never went anywhere tho
2020-04-30T23:24:09 < emeb> seemed like a reasonable platform for some high-power embedded stuff, if  you can stomach the linux.
2020-04-30T23:25:20 < zyp> I started on a layout for my «usb via pcie sockets» project
2020-04-30T23:25:28 < zyp> https://bin.jvnv.net/file/aPbP3.png
2020-04-30T23:26:00 < emeb> that'll be fun
2020-04-30T23:26:01 < zyp> but as you can see I were planning to go with sdcard and the variant without emmc
2020-04-30T23:26:49 < emeb> that's going to be ECP5?
2020-04-30T23:27:36 < zyp> no, this is from before I started getting into fpga stuff, and is on the backburner now because the fpga stuff is more interesting :p
2020-04-30T23:30:26 < zyp> speaking of ecp5, I'm approaching the point now where I'll want to have a firmware stack on top of my usb core
2020-04-30T23:31:21 < zyp> so I've gotten vexriscv going and gotten laks to build for it and boot on it
2020-04-30T23:31:43 < Steffanx> Emeb I lied to you BTW. I use the SAI1_A as I2S slave.
2020-04-30T23:31:53 < Steffanx> Its on the f722vc
2020-04-30T23:37:03 < kakimir> usb what zyp?
2020-04-30T23:37:48 < zyp> usb core
2020-04-30T23:37:52 < kakimir> https://www.ebay.com/sch/i.html?_from=R40&_trksid=m570.l1313&_nkw=%09+%09+PCI+Express+PCI-E+1X+Riser+Card+90+Degree+Right+Angle+Riser+Adapter+Card&_sacat=0
2020-04-30T23:38:05 < kakimir> I just bought that and solder usb3 and usb2 pairs to that
2020-04-30T23:38:11 < kakimir> then drop versa in it
2020-04-30T23:38:44 < zyp> why not just do pcie?
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2020-04-30T23:52:03 < kakimir> it involves pci-e instead of usb cable
2020-04-30T23:53:24 < zyp> yeah, but the difference is that the versa is designed to do pcie, doing usb3 is pretty much an experimental hack
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--- Log closed Fri May 01 00:00:52 2020