--- Log opened Mon Jun 01 00:00:29 2020
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2020-06-01T00:58:12 < zyp> qyx, I'm almost starting to get worried about my layout getting crowded: https://bin.jvnv.net/file/KHrg0.png
2020-06-01T00:59:08 < zyp> still need to fit a stm32, the clock synth and all the power stuff
2020-06-01T01:00:06 < zyp> the memory routing consumes a pretty significant amount of board area
2020-06-01T01:02:12 < zyp> considering trying STPMIC1C for this
2020-06-01T01:07:35 < qyx> add 2 more layers then!
2020-06-01T01:08:03 < qyx> I am considering using a hammer to persuade this octavo to boot
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2020-06-01T01:10:48 < zyp> surface area is a bigger concern than layers really
2020-06-01T01:12:38 < zyp> although I do have a bunch of available area above the fpga and I do have a bunch of available area on the sides too, it's just that the bottom layer is so dense it's not gonna be very fun dropping any vias there
2020-06-01T01:13:08 < zyp> worked for the flash though
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2020-06-01T01:14:47 < zyp> hmm
2020-06-01T01:16:54 < zyp> for power, I'm thinking I'll add a standalone buck for 12V->5V and feed that to STPMIC1
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2020-06-01T01:18:03 < zyp> BUCK1 can feed fpga core (1.1V or 1.2V depending on part), BUCK2 can feed the DDR memory and those IO bank on the FPGA, and along with LDO3 and DDR_REF, that'll generate all the rails I need for the memory
2020-06-01T01:19:18 < zyp> and then BUCK3 can feed the general 3.3V rail and BUCK4 can generate 1.2V for crosspoint switch core
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2020-06-01T01:19:50 < zyp> 2.5V VAUX can probably be generated with one of the LDOs from 3.3V
2020-06-01T01:20:51 < zyp> and then there's just a bunch of serdes supplies left
2020-06-01T01:21:41 < zyp> unfortunately only one of the LDOs can go below 1.7V, apparently
2020-06-01T01:21:52 < zyp> hmm, clock synth might need 1.8V
2020-06-01T01:22:42 < zyp> but yeah, might be able to take care of most supplies with STPMIC1 like that
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2020-06-01T01:33:20 < Laurenceb> >Recent research [18] has verified that the commonly held view that pipes burst when ice growth
2020-06-01T01:33:20 < Laurenceb> simply pushes against pipe walls is not correct. Pipe bursting actually occurs when freezing
2020-06-01T01:33:20 < Laurenceb> temperatures give rise to a solid plug of concentric ice that forms inside a pipe such that this plug
2020-06-01T01:33:20 < Laurenceb> grows into a confined zone of water
2020-06-01T01:33:24 < Laurenceb> interdasting
2020-06-01T01:36:40 < Laurenceb> *Stephen Fry mode intensifies*
2020-06-01T01:38:39 < BrainDamage> i mean, it makes perfect sense, unless you have a closed tap on both ends if ice grows inside the pipe it has the upstream direction to expand to
2020-06-01T01:38:55 < BrainDamage> so it has to seal on one end
2020-06-01T01:39:07 < BrainDamage> and then push to the sealed area
2020-06-01T01:51:47 < Thorn> I found where all the Chinese PMICs live http://www.x-powers.com/en.php/Info/product_list/cat_id/29
2020-06-01T02:01:38 < PaulFertser> Interesting indeed, so it's water pushing the pipes open, not the ice itself. Not something I would expect.
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2020-06-01T02:30:04 < specing> but doesen't the ice first form near the walls?
2020-06-01T02:41:27 < Laurenceb> specing: yeah
2020-06-01T02:41:39 < Laurenceb> so in many cases there is no trapped water so no damage
2020-06-01T02:42:27 < Laurenceb> if there is trapped water the water pressure will increase as freezing progresses, then suddenly the ice will crack and pressure transferred to the pipe
2020-06-01T02:43:20 < Laurenceb> it makes sense from an energy point of view - if the ice crystals grew with built in stresses, there would have higher potential energy
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2020-06-01T03:17:44 < Thorn> zyp do you not need Vtt for the dimm? does it have termination onboard?
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2020-06-01T05:38:07 < englishman> raspberry pi ups from amadong isn't a ups
2020-06-01T05:38:11 < englishman> shuts off after a few days
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2020-06-01T07:03:19 < bitmask> https://i.imgur.com/Vl5H9vq.png?1
2020-06-01T07:29:10 < jadew`> those are within the limits of most chinese houses, no?
2020-06-01T07:32:19 < Thorn> >ic is good Store
2020-06-01T07:32:28 < Thorn> aliexpress marketing level:
2020-06-01T07:46:51 < dongs> ds2: actually it needs to be bright, its an indicator that needs to be seen from far away. but yeah ok noi problem
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2020-06-01T10:58:02 < PaulFertser> Regarding that ice/water blowing pipes, the article from which Laurence gave us a quote: https://cyber.sci-hub.uno/MTAuMTAxNi9zMDE5Ni04OTA0KDAxKTAwMTI5LTc=/akyurt2002.pdf It talks about different kinds of ice forming under pressure and other related phenomena. I also find the language surprising given it's written in a Saudi Arabia college.
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2020-06-01T11:09:16 < Steffanx> Why PaulFertser . Have you seen Hamilton speak English here? He's from Iran and his English is waaay better than mine
2020-06-01T11:10:11 < PaulFertser> Steffanx: I thought he's special <3
2020-06-01T11:10:17 < Steffanx> Haha
2020-06-01T11:11:43 < PaulFertser> Steffanx: and if "they" are "just like us" why do not we see Saudi Arabia people here on this channel?
2020-06-01T11:12:00 < Steffanx> We have beaky 
2020-06-01T11:12:29 < Steffanx> And idk. Perhaps irc is too old school for them ;)
2020-06-01T11:12:58 < PaulFertser> Where's beaky from?
2020-06-01T11:14:30 < PaulFertser> And OK, I take it, IRC is too old school, but what about git? Where're the git commits to the popular projects from the folks there?
2020-06-01T11:14:55 < Steffanx> I was under the impression it was U. A. E 
2020-06-01T11:15:17 < Streaker> The teachers in UAE schools are all british expats I think.
2020-06-01T11:16:23 < catphish> jadew`: the middle of the 8's are going to fall out when you pick it up
2020-06-01T11:17:04 < catphish> not to mention all those circles top-left
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2020-06-01T11:33:28 < zyp> Thorn, LDO3 in STPMIC1 is a push-pull LDO specifically suited for generating VTT
2020-06-01T11:34:04 < zyp> the DIMM has the VTT resistors onboard, but they still need a supply
2020-06-01T11:35:28 < zyp> a DDR3 DIMM has four supply rails in total; VDD
2020-06-01T11:35:46 < zyp> VDD, VREF, VTT and VDD_SPD
2020-06-01T11:36:08 < zyp> the latter is just 3.3V for the EEPROM, no big deal
2020-06-01T11:36:35 < zyp> VDD is 1.5 or 1.35 and VREF and VTT are VDD/2
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2020-06-01T13:06:36 < jadew`> why are tantalum capacitors so expensive?
2020-06-01T13:19:43 < Mangy_Dog> isnt tantalum a rare mineral?
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2020-06-01T14:01:32 < jadew`> is it just me or is Farnell extremely irrelevant?
2020-06-01T14:02:16 < jadew`> I rarely find the stuff I need there and the ones that I do, I also find them at other distributors for much cheaper
2020-06-01T14:11:14 < specing> the only plus for farnel is that shipping to me is just 5 eur
2020-06-01T14:16:26 < zyp> all relevant distributors to me do free shipping above some point
2020-06-01T14:17:41 < specing> that's true, but the "some point" is often quite high
2020-06-01T14:18:42 < zyp> typically like $50
2020-06-01T14:21:34 < zyp> if I need to buy something for less than $50 total, I usually throw in some stuff I've been meaning to get to bump the total above $50
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2020-06-01T14:29:20 < jpa-> jadew`: i've had some connectors that were only available from farnell, but other than that, yeah, pretty useless
2020-06-01T14:30:18 < jpa-> it used to be that shipping to europe was significantly faster from farnell than digikey, but now that digikey ships in like 2 days there is not much difference there either
2020-06-01T14:30:31 < zyp> now?
2020-06-01T14:30:38 < zyp> when didn't digikey do that?
2020-06-01T14:30:55 < jpa-> 10+ years ago
2020-06-01T14:31:12 < jpa-> could be country-specific though, but i remember it used to take a week
2020-06-01T14:31:18 < zyp> I've had two day deliveries from digikey for as long as I've been buying from digikey
2020-06-01T14:35:04 < jadew`> oh, didn't know digikey ships so fast
2020-06-01T14:35:06 < jpa-> hmm, now that i think about it, i think it used to be that digikey didn't do DPD (duty paid by sender) to finland back then
2020-06-01T14:35:10 < jadew`> I'm using mouser
2020-06-01T14:35:14 < jpa-> so just to get it out of custom added 1-2 days
2020-06-01T14:35:46 < jadew`> farnell shipping is extra fast tho
2020-06-01T14:35:54 < jadew`> I get my stuff usually the next day
2020-06-01T14:36:01 < jadew`> so I do use them if I need something now
2020-06-01T14:36:44 < zyp> how early in the day do you need to order to get something tomorrow?
2020-06-01T14:36:47 < Steffanx> As a company Farnell shipping is always free here. Unless its a US stock delivery
2020-06-01T14:36:56 < jadew`> zyp, by 8 pm my time
2020-06-01T14:37:16 < jadew`> so that's... 6 pm gmt
2020-06-01T14:37:28 < jadew`> or 5... depending on the season
2020-06-01T14:37:58 < zyp> and it still has time to leave the warehouse for a next day delivery?
2020-06-01T14:38:06 < jadew`> zyp, yep
2020-06-01T14:38:18 < zyp> huh
2020-06-01T14:38:31 < jadew`> I was surprised by it too
2020-06-01T14:38:41 < jadew`> I guess they ship it overnight
2020-06-01T14:38:44 < zyp> I like that with american distributors, I can order in the evening and have it sent the same day because of timezones
2020-06-01T14:38:49 < jadew`> the flight here is like 2 hours
2020-06-01T14:39:07 < jadew`> yeah, I like that too and I'm relying on it as we speak
2020-06-01T14:39:12 < zyp> but that's kinda moot if the warehouse is open around the clock
2020-06-01T14:39:45 < jadew`> unfortunately my notes for what I have to buy are not "buy X, Y, and Z", but more in the line of "calculate what you need for X, Y and Z"
2020-06-01T14:40:02 < jadew`> so I'm a bit worried I won't get it by the end of the week
2020-06-01T14:40:12 < jpa-> my latest order from farnell took two days; ordered 10.2. at 13:20, they shipped 11.2. at 14:33, then it was at my door 12.2. 16:11
2020-06-01T14:41:06 < jadew`> they took longer than one day only a couple of times for me
2020-06-01T14:41:32 < jadew`> but they came through when I needed it the most
2020-06-01T14:41:44 < jadew`> (customer placed an order and I realized I'm missing something)
2020-06-01T14:43:09 < jadew`> mouser order would get here on Friday if I manage to place it soon
2020-06-01T14:43:47 < jadew`> TME, Wednesday or Thursday
2020-06-01T14:44:15 < zyp> I'd expect to have a mouser or digikey order on wednesday if I placed it today
2020-06-01T14:44:46 < jadew`> really? I never got it faster than 5 days
2020-06-01T14:45:10 < zyp> I haven't noticed a speed difference between mouser and digikey
2020-06-01T14:45:30 < zyp> and they both send with UPS from the US, so the shipping path is pretty much the same
2020-06-01T14:45:31 < jadew`> I never ordered from digikey, but I'll give them a try
2020-06-01T14:45:48 < jadew`> mouser sends here by fedex
2020-06-01T14:45:54 < jadew`> you get free shipping, right?
2020-06-01T14:45:55 < jpa-> latest digikey order on monday 24.2. got delivered wednesday 26.2.; but not sure how it is now that there are less flights
2020-06-01T14:46:13 < jadew`> jpa-, which courier?
2020-06-01T14:46:18 < jpa-> ups
2020-06-01T14:46:21 < jadew`> ah ha
2020-06-01T14:46:24 < zyp> jadew`, IIRC I can choose either UPS or fedex free shipping
2020-06-01T14:46:45 < jadew`> zyp, I'll check, for me it defaults to FedEx
2020-06-01T14:47:08 < jadew`> yup, UPS is not an option for free delivery
2020-06-01T14:47:24 < zyp> I haven't been using fedex in forever, but IIRC they're fairly comparable
2020-06-01T14:47:44 < jadew`> yeah, they're pretty good
2020-06-01T14:47:51 < zyp> and last mile delivery is handled by the same courier in either case
2020-06-01T14:48:16 < jpa-> mouser seems to take longer for me, it comes by fedex and latest one was from friday to next wednesday
2020-06-01T14:48:22 < jadew`> what courier does Farnell use when it ships to you?
2020-06-01T14:48:26 < jadew`> for me it's UPS
2020-06-01T14:48:39 < jpa-> UPS for me too
2020-06-01T14:49:04 < zyp> probably same
2020-06-01T14:49:28 < zyp> yeah, was UPS last time at least
2020-06-01T14:51:26 < jadew`> yup, just checked on farnell's website (the romanian version)
2020-06-01T14:51:32 < Steffanx> do you have any idea what tool your friend used on android for that video PaulFertser?
2020-06-01T14:51:38 < jadew`> last order for next day delivery 6 pm
2020-06-01T14:51:44 < jadew`> and the standard delivery is next day delivery
2020-06-01T14:54:10 < zyp> how close together can you place SMA connectors? I remember somebody talked about that, but I don't remember what the conclusion was
2020-06-01T14:54:26 < jadew`> depends on what you connect to them
2020-06-01T14:54:43 < jadew`> if it's user facing stuff, expect adapters
2020-06-01T14:55:14 < jadew`> so you'll have to keep them at least one adapter diameter away + some small clearance
2020-06-01T14:55:34 < jadew`> minimum would be enough to fit a wrench between two connected SMA connectors
2020-06-01T14:56:12 < jadew`> so I guess the answer is that it varies...
2020-06-01T14:56:14 < zyp> not adapters, just SMA-SMA test cables
2020-06-01T14:56:29 < jadew`> then take an 8 mm wrench and measure it
2020-06-01T14:56:55 < jpa-> kakimir must be an expert on that
2020-06-01T14:57:38 < jadew`> keep in mind that you have to be able to spin it too, not just fit in between them
2020-06-01T14:57:48 < jadew`> *fit it
2020-06-01T14:58:23 < benishor> anyone got the stlink v3set? is it worth upgrading from a v2?
2020-06-01T14:58:24 < PaulFertser> Steffanx: an illegally obtained copy of KineMaster Pro. He considered buying it but after they ignored his meaningful questions over e-mail he decided not to. 
2020-06-01T14:58:47 < PaulFertser> benishor: no! Doesn't work with anything but cortex-m targets from ST.
2020-06-01T14:58:55 < Steffanx> Such attitude PaulFertser.
2020-06-01T14:59:07 < jpa-> for bnc there is this  https://www.amphenolrf.com/227-t2000.html  but not sure if it exists for sma
2020-06-01T14:59:11 < benishor> PaulFertser: so I take it I should keep the v2?
2020-06-01T14:59:38 < PaulFertser> benishor: I'd say yes. And I'd recommend to have some FT2232H device handy for the usecases impossible with v2.
2020-06-01T15:00:02 < PaulFertser> Steffanx: don't you think it's fair enough?
2020-06-01T15:00:16 < benishor> 10x PaulFertser. it's a bit weird that the v3 only works with cortex-m though, I wonder what's the thinking behind this
2020-06-01T15:00:27 < PaulFertser> benishor: it's unclear, there's no official statement.
2020-06-01T15:00:43 < Steffanx> Not sure PaulFertser.
2020-06-01T15:00:47 < jpa-> PaulFertser: you mean v3 is vendor-locked to ST chips?
2020-06-01T15:01:11 < PaulFertser> Steffanx: I think it's super-nasty to ignore legit questions for a company that sells products.
2020-06-01T15:01:32 < PaulFertser> jpa-: yes
2020-06-01T15:01:38 < jpa-> PaulFertser: good to know!
2020-06-01T15:01:52 < PaulFertser> jpa-: nobody did a proper LA trace yet so it's unclear what exactly is happening there.
2020-06-01T15:02:05 < jadew`> jpa-, https://bit.ly/36ReM40
2020-06-01T15:02:28 < jpa-> jadew`: looks bulky, and how much does it cost anyway?
2020-06-01T15:02:34 < jadew`> heh
2020-06-01T15:02:39 < PaulFertser> jpa-: but even for an ST employee it's impossible to get reliable information about that quirk. Current best guess is that they're messing with the users on purpose.
2020-06-01T15:03:10 < Steffanx> Now you almost sound like your fellow russian (the one that moved to the US) PaulFertser. "Killing people is justified because he did something bad in the past" :P
2020-06-01T15:03:36 < zyp> jadew`, the real question is, if I've got an 82mm long pcb side, how many SMA connectors can I fit along it?
2020-06-01T15:03:51 < zyp> staggering multiple heights is an option
2020-06-01T15:04:10 < PaulFertser> Steffanx: but it wasn't the past. He considered basically paying for the support. But seeing in advance that the support is not going to be meaningful he decided against doing that.
2020-06-01T15:04:24 < jpa-> PaulFertser: IIRC the stlink firmware license agreement has always forbidden use with other vendor products
2020-06-01T15:04:30 < jpa-> but it was not enforced
2020-06-01T15:04:38 < Steffanx> PaulFertser: but you dont pay just for customer support right? or do you?
2020-06-01T15:04:56 < Steffanx> if it states that on their website, then yes i can see you warezing it :P
2020-06-01T15:05:29 < jadew`> zyp, I use at least 12-15mm from center to center should be good enough I think for test cables alone
2020-06-01T15:06:16 < zyp> hmm
2020-06-01T15:06:21 < PaulFertser> jpa-: what if I'm not using ST software? I do not see any licence printed on a nucleo board.
2020-06-01T15:06:58 < zyp> jadew`, so three pairs in a straight line fits nicely in 82mm
2020-06-01T15:07:33 < PaulFertser> Steffanx: my friend doesn't have a moral obligation to pay for proprietary software.
2020-06-01T15:07:35 < zyp> stacked SMA connectors doesn't seem to exist
2020-06-01T15:08:15 < jadew`> you can put right angle ones on both sides of the board :P
2020-06-01T15:08:20 < jpa-> PaulFertser: yeah, EULAs for embedded firmware is pretty much broken concept anyway
2020-06-01T15:08:31 < PaulFertser> Steffanx: so if he would be buying it he'd do it as a donation to good project. But if they ignore legit questions then it's not a good project for him.
2020-06-01T15:08:47 < zyp> jadew`, only if they are surface mount :p
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2020-06-01T15:10:06 < Steffanx> Then you look for a better alternative PaulFertser? ;)
2020-06-01T15:10:33 < PaulFertser> Steffanx: I'm not using properietary software unless I'm really forced to. But he's not me.
2020-06-01T15:10:39 < jpa-> zyp: mmcx is a nice connector also, if you need smaller than sma
2020-06-01T15:13:11 < PaulFertser> Steffanx: I can ask him what (wired) mic and gimbal he's using.
2020-06-01T15:13:16 < PaulFertser> If you need to know.
2020-06-01T15:23:36 < Steffanx> i was more curious about the android software
2020-06-01T15:23:52 < Steffanx> i dont want to record more.  :P
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2020-06-01T15:29:22 < jadew`> lol, I had a $10 item in my watch list on ebay
2020-06-01T15:30:06 < jadew`> the seller increased the price to $45 and gave everyone who had it in the watch list an offer for $43
2020-06-01T15:30:59 < jadew`> https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/183625032100
2020-06-01T15:33:40 < specing> lol
2020-06-01T15:44:08 < Steffanx> Ada.
2020-06-01T16:15:50 < Laurenceb> _Lady_ Ada
2020-06-01T16:17:21 < strata> aidsfruit
2020-06-01T16:17:41 < invzim> anyone in the market for a miccscope camera?
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2020-06-01T16:30:44 < englishman> are there a bunch of drug dealers looking for retro style scales to dispense designer cocaine
2020-06-01T16:30:53 < englishman> that are pushing up the prices for retro style scales
2020-06-01T16:33:20 < Laurenceb> lol
2020-06-01T16:33:36 < Laurenceb> englishman: I was reading about corrosion in solar water heating systems
2020-06-01T16:34:01 < Laurenceb> turns out that with a bronze pump and plastic/stainless pipework use of brine is ok
2020-06-01T16:34:14 < Laurenceb> so you dont need to fiddle with drainback designs
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2020-06-01T16:34:52 < Laurenceb> you just have to use stainless pipe next to the solar collector because if the water boils in the collector it can get hot there
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2020-06-01T16:36:58 < englishman> theres a farmer here that throws away dozens of barrels a year
2020-06-01T16:37:13 < englishman> so i think it's worth trying out that avenue before investing in solar at all
2020-06-01T16:37:17 < englishman> see how it works the first year
2020-06-01T16:37:57 < Laurenceb> yeah, you get most of the benefits for a fraction of the cost of solar collectors
2020-06-01T16:38:19 < Laurenceb> I'm tempted to try building something here for domestic space heating tho
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2020-06-01T17:53:47 < bitmask> https://i.imgur.com/Mb0YPqr.png
2020-06-01T18:05:08 < strata> making a grow light?
2020-06-01T18:05:58 < zyp> for growing PCBs
2020-06-01T18:11:25 < bitmask> :)
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2020-06-01T18:15:13 < jpa-> yeah, it's cheaper to just order some seeeds and then grow them to full size boards
2020-06-01T18:15:59 < strata> makes sense
2020-06-01T18:16:06 < strata> less china dependence is gud
2020-06-01T18:18:02 < bitmask> only problem is I dont have an iron/laminator.  I'm gonna try heating up my print bed glass to 70C and using that as my iron :P if that doesnt work i'll just buy one or borrow one
2020-06-01T18:21:30 < jpa-> 70C is pretty low
2020-06-01T18:21:36 < bitmask> its all it needs
2020-06-01T18:21:43 < bitmask> 60-70
2020-06-01T18:21:54 < jpa-> oh? not toner transfer but something else?
2020-06-01T18:22:06 < bitmask> dry film
2020-06-01T18:22:12 < jpa-> ah
2020-06-01T18:23:50 < bitmask> hmm, now im seeing half the people say 60-70 and the other 115-130
2020-06-01T18:24:10 -!- Streaker [~Streaker@unaffiliated/streaker] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer]
2020-06-01T18:28:32 < Steffanx> bitmask is talking celsius?
2020-06-01T18:28:59 < bitmask> yes, at least the 60-70, maybe the higher numbers are f, good idea
2020-06-01T18:29:06 < bitmask> im smart
2020-06-01T18:29:39 < bitmask> oops, I forgot to mirror the transparency prints, oh well, guess the text will be backwards
2020-06-01T18:29:54 < jpa-> lol, and all your footprints :)
2020-06-01T18:31:42 < bitmask> its just a calibration test, not actually using the boards
2020-06-01T18:31:52 < bitmask> https://i.imgur.com/Vl5H9vq.png?1
2020-06-01T18:32:38  * jpa- is enjoying bitmask's small strings
2020-06-01T18:33:04 < Steffanx> i know that jpa-
2020-06-01T18:33:19 < Steffanx> i told him what you enjoy.
2020-06-01T18:36:53 < mawk> I was supposed to receive the airco yesterday
2020-06-01T18:36:57 < mawk> now it's delayed tomorrow
2020-06-01T18:37:16 < mawk> the dark fomenting forces of the dutch government want me to die of heat
2020-06-01T18:42:33 < englishman> surely noone could have foretold summer would be coming
2020-06-01T18:42:45 < mawk> it's NL
2020-06-01T18:42:45 < englishman> and that it would be hot in an apartment in a european city
2020-06-01T18:42:49 < mawk> it was supposed to be chilly all year
2020-06-01T18:42:53 < mawk> I got scammed
2020-06-01T18:43:05 < mawk> you need to refund my airco Steffanx you lured me in
2020-06-01T18:44:46 < Steffanx> Uh what mawk?
2020-06-01T18:44:59 < mawk> you can pay by iDeal
2020-06-01T18:45:20 < Steffanx> I dont feel responsible sorry
2020-06-01T18:45:23 < mawk> :(
2020-06-01T18:45:26 < Steffanx> Na, im not even sorry
2020-06-01T18:57:01 < Laurenceb> attn englishman https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/2016-SOLAR-WATER-HEATING-PUMP-CONTROLLER-WITH-LCD-DISPLAY-SENSORS-DATALOGGER/274325960052?_trkparms=ispr%3D1&hash=item3fdf19f574:g:S7UAAOSw7NNUJSLV&enc=AQAEAAACcIQvEcHUrT7nmUC3yY5qbPyaBN1nJEDYW8MyypsJPgXKibDohBr3i8YnVD2wambM6xJbl9drxJhXbOcQPmAYHUvzg3FUedLYDA6l6v9D6tM%2BbhqWWI9Tqg2ozsWiAkYo6IJd5aFAfdjAoC5jKKU80gVi1RaB64GS2x%2BTpGSkBbCRiTzgqQRYnUGNN5%2BtBIuy4ezxS6l76YsRXn42GO2BpePFY%2FGMVAEoqlsoH3cB
2020-06-01T18:57:01 < Laurenceb> uXkWJJr2U2m3kgcFm1qxGrLemheqlAqvwmLQV6YbKICf5kE9zM4l5fFKnu5xq9ZKaOVzBjtsZsnLZqGsf5YjVUFJx0fAbCpxB9zKBlDdKQwRFIPCp87K3W82ya95U6VCqmmxFaWgXQ6wIS5EFgl7pjTjiqF2L2YDZBrB8KWeiCotwGai7zZHHUcDc46a1gr5wciw29Z59wZewAyr%2FB0%2BUXUrByHji0C%2B3YezpDbuPiUgfjZ7S0ul%2FX1oNQ0g2%2Ffo69dm2MSBWBFWPi6Rt7gOkTV%2BlZUYAckqZyhTUx1HeF626%2BbIqnzkrXOLNerOKcCIT%2FhMafytT1z4X%2BbBVqnNyQ6ehx%2FcvIeD67rjdd85KEjpq6XxhSekxdlmjYFg7o%2BthNCufWsgiRevA83AzJ1ygKYmOmXkUygNG%2BZ
2020-06-01T18:57:01 < Laurenceb> sCSLOiUuszezqe1Ulb2Mlr0fkbP0fMOucJL4tMyAuhUaLCHW8Vt2%2Fxti%2FJsB2Flq6AzIsD880EvfOSniLdFJN2CWvvjjOBxFCLjhEnPsvj0RMG6eL4%2BDbyMcDLLCcwl7bj5cKVfCRky%2F50B5qOJdjUoeckC1p3EtEM4onb6NxefblFkOT4sislA%3D%3D&checksum=274325960052268775e945ef4eeebde5f6a0eb282ada
2020-06-01T18:57:06 < Laurenceb> oh sheet sorry
2020-06-01T18:57:10 < Laurenceb> dat url
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2020-06-01T19:05:16 < Thorn> what is the proper way to do an assembly drawing? do you need to draw outlines for every component in a mechanical layer?
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2020-06-01T19:32:22 < Cracki> pcb assembly?
2020-06-01T19:32:44 < Cracki> (I take it you don't mean mechanical... exploded view + steps)
2020-06-01T19:33:11 < Thorn> yes pcb assembly drawing in draftsman
2020-06-01T19:34:03 < englishman> lol luarent
2020-06-01T19:44:10 < dongs> Thorn: how the fuck do i make a templtaed C++ static thread thunk method
2020-06-01T19:44:48 < dongs> static_cast<CNigger *>(arg)->RealThreadProc(); but how do i make it just use template instead
2020-06-01T19:44:51 < dongs> static_cast<T>?
2020-06-01T19:45:27 < PaulFertser> lolwhat dongs started using not just c++ but even templates and threads?
2020-06-01T19:46:04 < Thorn> dongs what type do you have originally and what do you want to do with it?
2020-06-01T19:47:13 < dongs> Thorn: trying to fix some crusty old C++ from 2001
2020-06-01T19:47:19 < dongs> it used a fucking asm thunk
2020-06-01T19:47:28 < Thorn> pastebin a snippet
2020-06-01T19:47:47 < dongs> yaeh im trying
2020-06-01T19:47:51 < dongs> wtf happened to my pastebin
2020-06-01T19:49:25 < dongs> https://pastebin.com/ABeK834f
2020-06-01T19:49:56 < dongs> https://pastebin.com/00UGf4Nh
2020-06-01T19:50:00 < dongs> \and it was calling it like that
2020-06-01T19:51:42 < Thorn> _ThreadProcThunk<T> is a function, you can't do ->foo(); on it
2020-06-01T19:52:42 < benishor> you want a templated type I would say
2020-06-01T19:52:43 < dongs> thats just a static thread thing
2020-06-01T19:53:06 < benishor> with a static method
2020-06-01T19:53:23 < dongs> https://pastebin.com/ajzfRvsw < this is what i did (bottom ~4 lines) but idk if thats even right
2020-06-01T19:53:54 < PaulFertser> dongs, if you're fixing it probably it's easier to use std::thread directly?
2020-06-01T19:54:05 < dongs> but im not using std::
2020-06-01T19:54:08 < dongs> and its a gui thread
2020-06-01T19:54:18 < dongs> so there's extrta shit for message loop and stuff.
2020-06-01T19:54:21 < PaulFertser> oh
2020-06-01T19:54:30 < dongs> but i would like to use it in 32/64butt builds so that asm neesd to go
2020-06-01T19:54:32 < PaulFertser> No hatred for WINAPI yet?
2020-06-01T19:54:41 < dongs> i love windows, get outta here
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2020-06-01T19:55:49 < PaulFertser> X11 shit is surprisingly similar
2020-06-01T19:56:12 < benishor> what's this in CreateThread?
2020-06-01T19:56:17 < PaulFertser> (and unbearable)
2020-06-01T19:56:38 < benishor> where's that CreateThread called in?
2020-06-01T19:57:14 < dongs> thats class constructor or whatever hte fuck idk
2020-06-01T19:57:20 < Thorn> dongs that should actually work
2020-06-01T19:58:21 < benishor> only if "this" is of type T
2020-06-01T19:58:28 < benishor> or T* let's say
2020-06-01T19:59:04 < benishor> I would also try to make that _ThreadProcThunk as a method in the class
2020-06-01T20:00:08 < benishor> just make it static 
2020-06-01T20:04:24 < dongs> damn this is some obfuscated shit
2020-06-01T20:08:16 < dongs> https://pastebin.com/iu14zYeG ok this builds but for some reason line 143 cannot acces m_hThread from base CThread?? or m_dwThreadID
2020-06-01T20:08:41 < dongs> message : see reference to class template instantiation 'CThreadImpl<T,TBase>' being compiled wtf does that even mean?
2020-06-01T20:09:20 < Thorn> _ThreadProcThunk(T) is a function call
2020-06-01T20:09:35 < Thorn> not a function pointer
2020-06-01T20:09:52 < dongs> o yeah
2020-06-01T20:10:31 < dongs> ok fixed that
2020-06-01T20:10:49 < dongs> the bullshit still remains tho with unaccessible 
2020-06-01T20:11:05 < dongs> https://pastebin.com/D8Bt93JR
2020-06-01T20:11:46 < dongs> the shit is public inside CThread, shouldnt it work?
2020-06-01T20:15:14 < Thorn> dongs they're dependent names, you need to redeclare them with typename
2020-06-01T20:15:23 < dongs> what does that mean in english
2020-06-01T20:15:43 < dongs> is this some C++ syntax change in last ~15 years?
2020-06-01T20:15:53 < dongs> because this compiled in 2003
2020-06-01T20:15:53 < dongs> or so
2020-06-01T20:17:00 < Thorn> no it's in c++03 https://en.cppreference.com/w/cpp/language/dependent_name
2020-06-01T20:17:57 < dongs> so I need to redo T::DWORD m_ThreadId or wahtever?
2020-06-01T20:17:59 < dongs> inside the Impl?
2020-06-01T20:21:11 < dongs> that workede
2020-06-01T20:22:36 < dongs> huh or not
2020-06-01T20:22:38 < dongs> wtf?
2020-06-01T20:23:29 < dongs> are those guys for fuckign real???? the "examples" about 50% down the page
2020-06-01T20:23:40 < dongs> A<T>b<*p3whatevertehfuck
2020-06-01T20:23:54 < dongs> who the fuck calls all that shit single letters if they're trtying to explain somethign
2020-06-01T20:36:30 < Thorn> dongs why is the base class a template parameter in the first place? (line 128)
2020-06-01T20:36:52 < Thorn> does CThreadImpl ever inherit from some other class? 
2020-06-01T20:38:17 < dongs> i dont think so?
2020-06-01T20:38:59 < Thorn> so just do template<class T> class CThreadImpl : public CThread
2020-06-01T20:39:09 < Thorn> and dependent names will go away
2020-06-01T20:40:49 < dongs> ugh that makes mroe aids later
2020-06-01T20:40:58 < dongs> it breaks CGuiThreadImpl or whatever
2020-06-01T20:41:32 < dongs> template <class T>
2020-06-01T20:41:33 < dongs> class CThreadImpl : public CThread
2020-06-01T20:41:36 < dongs> so you saying to do this?
2020-06-01T20:42:09 < dongs> and in ctor replace TBase(null, null with CThread(null null
2020-06-01T20:42:27 < dongs> but then around linme 178 it does
2020-06-01T20:42:32 < dongs> Thread.h(178,1): error C2977: 'CThreadImpl': too many template arguments
2020-06-01T20:42:36 < dongs> public CThreadImpl<T, TBase>,
2020-06-01T20:42:38 < dongs> wehre it does this shit
2020-06-01T20:42:54 < dongs> should that be TBase = CThread?
2020-06-01T20:43:07 < Thorn> typedef CThreadImpl<T> thisClass;
2020-06-01T20:43:20 < aandrew> Jesus dongs what’ve you got yourself in to?!
2020-06-01T20:43:34 < aandrew> I think I’d have jumped into a volcano by now
2020-06-01T20:43:36 < dongs> Thorn: what is that shit? i saw that before and removed it cuz nothing was calling thisClass
2020-06-01T20:43:49 < Thorn> even better, remove it then
2020-06-01T20:45:58 < dongs> why is this shit even tempaltes at all
2020-06-01T20:46:00 < dongs> fucking hell
2020-06-01T20:46:23 < Thorn> I don't know, could be an over-generalization by the original developer
2020-06-01T20:47:29 < dongs> https://pastebin.com/zEps7xmm this doesnt work, linme 169 PostQuitMessage cannot be accessed
2020-06-01T20:47:53 < zyp> wtf is that shit
2020-06-01T20:48:00 < dongs> retarded C++ is what
2020-06-01T20:48:20 < dongs> some garbage i need to rebuild that workedi n 2003 and doesnt compile now
2020-06-01T20:48:21 < zyp> where does it come from and why are you using it?
2020-06-01T20:48:22 < dongs> thanks to ???????
2020-06-01T20:48:27 < zyp> haha
2020-06-01T20:50:00 < dongs> why teh FUCK does it even have _ThreadProcThunk if fucking CThread alreadyt has a static Create method that does same shit
2020-06-01T20:50:35 < dongs> ah that one doesnt call Run tho, looks like a more general purpose shit
2020-06-01T20:51:42 < strata> _ThreadProstituteCrunk.CThread.Create.pimpJuice(dongs).Run()
2020-06-01T20:52:39 < zyp> dongs, by the way, I tried loading that .x_t shit in altium and got a «missing solidworks collaboration license» error or some shit
2020-06-01T20:52:56 < zyp> so I found a converter and made a step out of it
2020-06-01T20:52:56 < dongs> the xbk usb shite?
2020-06-01T20:53:03 < zyp> the usb3 shit
2020-06-01T20:53:09 < dongs> idk how i did it either i might haev asked a pal to convert
2020-06-01T20:53:16 < dongs> and only cached x_t
2020-06-01T20:53:22 < zyp> maybe newer altium supports more formats, idk
2020-06-01T20:54:19 < zyp> https://bin.jvnv.net/file/IFdlg.png
2020-06-01T20:54:31 < dongs> Lol nice
2020-06-01T20:54:50 < dongs> what is the shit in bottom right?
2020-06-01T20:54:54 < dongs> USB3 hub?
2020-06-01T20:54:59 < zyp> 12x12 crosspoint switch
2020-06-01T20:55:03 < dongs> oh
2020-06-01T20:55:06 < dongs> really.
2020-06-01T20:55:30 < dongs> the macom trash?
2020-06-01T20:55:34 < zyp> yeah
2020-06-01T20:55:39 < dongs> can you actually buy that? heh
2020-06-01T20:56:07 < zyp> sure
2020-06-01T20:56:20 < dongs> how many pins is that
2020-06-01T20:56:39 < zyp> 88
2020-06-01T20:57:23 < dongs> spendy
2020-06-01T20:57:29 < zyp> yes
2020-06-01T20:57:43 < zyp> but so is the rest of this shit
2020-06-01T20:57:47 < dongs> some dipshit in another channel im in is dicking withy 160x160 version of same shit
2020-06-01T20:57:55 < zyp> cool
2020-06-01T20:58:03 < zyp> also macom?
2020-06-01T20:58:06 < dongs> i told him to use Repeat() for the blocks, he said it crashes altium
2020-06-01T20:58:38 < dongs> https://www.macom.com/products/product-detail/M21605 this shit
2020-06-01T20:59:03 < zyp> nice
2020-06-01T20:59:08 < dongs> > $1200
2020-06-01T20:59:12 < zyp> yeah
2020-06-01T20:59:28 < dongs> and consumes like 30W
2020-06-01T20:59:32 < dongs> iirc
2020-06-01T20:59:56 < zyp> sounds reasonable
2020-06-01T21:00:08 < Thorn> https://github.com/NXP/i3c-slave-design
2020-06-01T21:00:14 < zyp> IIRC the 12x12 is a bit over a watt at full utilization
2020-06-01T21:00:49 < dongs> so thorn, how do i fix this shit :( why is C++ so gay
2020-06-01T21:00:58 < zyp> but since I'm partly using it for muxing, I don't think I'll ever see full utilization
2020-06-01T21:01:57 < zyp> a setup I have in mind is USB3 capture, with e.g. PCIe 2x towards backplane
2020-06-01T21:03:09 < zyp> that'll use 8 inputs and 10 outputs
2020-06-01T21:03:20 < dongs> neat
2020-06-01T21:03:34 < dongs> well, i have more faith in your shit working than that tool's 160x160 mux
2020-06-01T21:03:38 < zyp> haha
2020-06-01T21:03:55 < zyp> I'm tempted to make a backplane later with a 48x48 or something
2020-06-01T21:04:21 < zyp> larger would be better, but they get so fucking expensive
2020-06-01T21:04:31 < dongs> absolutely
2020-06-01T21:04:37 < dongs> but arent tehy basically just logics
2020-06-01T21:04:49 < dongs> you could prolly do same shit in a shitty fpga, no?
2020-06-01T21:05:13 < dongs> you can connect any:any, right?
2020-06-01T21:05:24 < zyp> nah, a fpga with that many transceivers is not gonna be cheap
2020-06-01T21:05:31 < zyp> right
2020-06-01T21:05:43 < dongs> does it need a "transceiver" tho, its just an analog, switch, yeah?
2020-06-01T21:05:53 < zyp> switch and buffers
2020-06-01T21:06:00 < dongs> not like it needs to deserialize->switch->serialize
2020-06-01T21:06:04 < zyp> correct
2020-06-01T21:06:32 < zyp> but a fpga can't do multi-gigabit shit on regular IO
2020-06-01T21:07:48 < dongs> ah. that sucks.
2020-06-01T21:08:49 < dongs> wtf is next to fpga, is that BGA SPI flash
2020-06-01T21:15:01 < zyp> yes
2020-06-01T21:16:23 < zyp> https://bin.jvnv.net/file/qYNx0.png <- I figured it'd be easier to route in one layer than WSON or whatever those other common footprints are
2020-06-01T21:25:38 < aandrew> that looked pretty straightforward. I think I might have taken that pair that runs north and then west straigh north out of the footprint then west but that's just me
2020-06-01T21:26:29 < aandrew> is that ViP I see on the bottom left two traces that are exiting the small BGA west side?
2020-06-01T21:26:45 < dongs>     public CGuiThread,
2020-06-01T21:26:47 < dongs> err
2020-06-01T21:26:50 < dongs> 72,25): message : could be the 'Join' in base 'CThread'
2020-06-01T21:26:50 < dongs> 72,25): message : or could be the 'Join' in base 'CThread'
2020-06-01T21:26:52 < dongs> fucking LOL
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2020-06-01T21:26:55 < dongs> ????
2020-06-01T21:27:13 < dongs> could be DONGS OR COULD BE DONGS
2020-06-01T21:27:39 < zyp> aandrew, which?
2020-06-01T21:31:07 < Thorn> dongs you inherited from the same class twice?
2020-06-01T21:31:50 < dongs> i dont know, did i?
2020-06-01T21:34:25 < dongs> i just keep adding/removing template <class T> shit at random places and it makes more shit broken
2020-06-01T21:34:55 < dongs> does any of this even need to be templated??
2020-06-01T21:38:09 < Thorn> that doesn't sound right at all
2020-06-01T21:38:11 < dongs> message : 'GetId': function declaration must be available as none of the arguments depend on a template parameter
2020-06-01T21:38:48 < Thorn> if your class is a template then all methods in it are automatically templates
2020-06-01T21:39:14 < Thorn> you only need extra template<> if you want to add more template parameters
2020-06-01T21:39:33 < dongs> https://pastebin.com/Rx3bQHeE current trash
2020-06-01T21:39:42 < dongs> i dont even know what a template parameter is
2020-06-01T21:40:08 < dongs> the final thing is called by doing CCrapThread : public CguiThreadImpl<CCrapThread> { blah }
2020-06-01T21:40:16 < dongs> thats the only part of it that im using
2020-06-01T21:40:41 < dongs> it makes a new thread, starts a message loop on it, and runs until it terminates thats all
2020-06-01T21:41:17 < dongs> i cant repeat waht combintion of class <T> shit i had to get those joins to be same-named
2020-06-01T21:41:36 < jadew`> what line is the error at?
2020-06-01T21:41:43 < dongs> now?
2020-06-01T21:41:52 < dongs> (163,33): message : 'GetId': function declaration must be available as none of the arguments depend on a template parameter
2020-06-01T21:41:55 < jadew`> in the thing you posted
2020-06-01T21:42:22 < dongs> ys that
2020-06-01T21:44:49 < jadew`> haven't seen that error  before but maybe you can try calling it like this: CThreadImpl<T>::GetId()
2020-06-01T21:50:13 < dongs> well that worked but other shit broke, i fucked aroudn with it some more and now im back to Join in base thing
2020-06-01T21:52:21 < dongs> can't I just get rid of all the Impl etc shit and just move all those methods into CGuiThreadImpl
2020-06-01T21:52:39 < dongs> get rid of CThread, CThreadImpl, CGuiThread etc
2020-06-01T21:52:47 < dongs> and merge all the methods into one fucking large class
2020-06-01T21:53:43 < jadew`> sure, but make sure the destructors are getting called in the correct order
2020-06-01T21:53:45 < jadew`> top to bottom
2020-06-01T21:54:21 < dongs> theres onlyt one in CTHread
2020-06-01T22:00:14 < dongs> there
2020-06-01T22:00:15 < dongs> deniggered
2020-06-01T22:00:35 < dongs> https://pastebin.com/TVsvN5hq
2020-06-01T22:00:42 < dongs> why was all the other garbage even necessary???
2020-06-01T22:00:55 < jadew`> structure maybe
2020-06-01T22:01:00 < dongs> no
2020-06-01T22:27:14 < dongs> https://www.anandtech.com/show/15821/microchips-new-pcie-40-pcie-switches-100-lanes-174-gbps who knew
2020-06-01T22:27:31 < dongs> you should use that instead, zyp
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2020-06-01T22:48:43 < Thorn> >So many people come to us and tell us they had no idea designing a system with an MPU would take three, four, five, or even six years
2020-06-01T22:48:45 < Thorn> wat
2020-06-01T22:48:53 < Thorn> from https://blog.st.com/qsmp-stm32mp1/
2020-06-01T22:50:29 < englishman> surely they are talking about waiting for hal bugfixes from ST
2020-06-01T22:51:26 < zyp> haha
2020-06-01T22:59:26 < qyx> chinamen are designing with allwhinners
2020-06-01T22:59:30 < qyx> it takes two evenings
2020-06-01T23:02:08 < qyx> QSMP-1570 uses an STM32MP157C with 512 MB of RAM, an additional two-lane MIPI-DSI interface, and 4 GB of eMMC
2020-06-01T23:02:14 < qyx> I expect it to cost ~100e
2020-06-01T23:02:37  * Thorn vomits
2020-06-01T23:02:38 < qyx> isn't it basically the same as the other octavo thing
2020-06-01T23:03:08 < qyx> except it is a gigantic QFN instead of gigantic BGA
2020-06-01T23:04:14 < qyx> ok only ~70e https://www.mouser.sk/ProductDetail/Ka-Ro-electronics/QSMP-1570?qs=sGAEpiMZZMu3sxpa5v1qrtTlaGwRcFAORO1Y%2FbCNnXk%3D
2020-06-01T23:17:33 < bvernoux> qyx, nice idea but clearly too expensive ...
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2020-06-01T23:21:48 < Cracki> Thorn, that company is german. some german companies employ idiots who drag their feet. "5 years" means some manager got duped by double digit IQ employees
2020-06-01T23:22:10 < Thorn> brb emigrating to Germany
2020-06-01T23:22:46 < bitmask> meh, need to work on my technique but found a good exposure time of 45 seconds: https://i.imgur.com/ZdztmD9.jpg
2020-06-01T23:22:47 < Thorn> (provided they actually want to get rid of those employees)
2020-06-01T23:23:02 < Cracki> those kinds of companies never grow, they just exist somehow, because everything in the company keeps the waste at that level that doesn't kill it
2020-06-01T23:23:26 < Cracki> no no, it's not the employees, it's the managers to blame. they are usually dumber than the employees
2020-06-01T23:23:40 < Cracki> and they think anything above room temp IQ is splendid
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2020-06-01T23:24:19 < Cracki> which is what they are, they can't tell 100 from 115 or 130
2020-06-01T23:25:21 < Cracki> 130... coincidentally that's why germans are debating general speed limits on autobahns. rn you have many stretches with 130 or less, but some some stretches that have none
2020-06-01T23:26:18 < Cracki> I'm still impressed by how simple it seems to get something going with those allwinners
2020-06-01T23:27:02 < catphish> monied westerners: lets say i'm seriously considering buying an evora, are there any other cars i should look at first? for some reason i hate the cayman
2020-06-01T23:37:18 < Steffanx> lol catphish. That's all i have to say about cars :P
2020-06-01T23:38:44 < catphish> i like cars ;'(
2020-06-01T23:40:15 < Steffanx> here in dutchland you can only go 100km/h during day time. no fun to drive a car no more.
2020-06-01T23:40:16 < Steffanx> can = may
2020-06-01T23:40:19 < Steffanx> = allowed to
2020-06-01T23:41:30 < Steffanx> because we have this NOx "issue". 
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2020-06-01T23:49:06 < specing> Steffanx: and during night time?
2020-06-01T23:51:15  * karlp has no concerns with 90 here, but super depends on the road quality :)
2020-06-01T23:53:23 < Steffanx> Then its allowed specing
2020-06-01T23:53:50 < Steffanx> 19h to 6h is 130km/h
2020-06-01T23:53:58 < Steffanx> Still slow
2020-06-01T23:55:21 < catphish> Steffanx: no unlimited speeds at all during certain hours?
2020-06-01T23:55:48 < specing> Steffanx: so in politician's mind, there is no NOx problem from 19h to 6h?
2020-06-01T23:56:21 < catphish> UK speed limit is 113, but it's widely ignored
2020-06-01T23:56:55 < catphish> unofficial limit is about 130 :)
2020-06-01T23:57:38 < catphish> Steffanx: had DE done away with unlimited speeds now? :(
2020-06-01T23:58:26 < catphish> if so i hope it doesn't apply to the nurburgring :)
2020-06-01T23:59:14 < ds2> so no speed limit for electric vehicles?
--- Day changed Tue Jun 02 2020
2020-06-02T00:01:54 < PaulFertser> New volvos are limited to 180 km/h because "high speed handling differs significantly".
2020-06-02T00:02:00 < Steffanx> catphish: dutchland. Not deutschland ;)
2020-06-02T00:02:16 < PaulFertser> Steffanx: it's not a far ride for you to DE
2020-06-02T00:02:22 < catphish> Steffanx: oh! i'm a dumbass
2020-06-02T00:02:28 < Steffanx> No, true. PaulFertser 
2020-06-02T00:02:36 < catphish> so should i get the evora?
2020-06-02T00:02:52 < Steffanx> But i dont drive for "pleasure" anyway
2020-06-02T00:02:54 < PaulFertser> And while at it you can bring some special goods to your DE friends Steffanx  :)
2020-06-02T00:03:54 < PaulFertser> Evora looks awesome
2020-06-02T00:04:16 < PaulFertser> And it's from the legendary Lotus
2020-06-02T00:05:03 < PaulFertser> Interesting that they do not use turbo. Do you know why catphish?
2020-06-02T00:06:12 < Steffanx> specing: they do, but .. its enough to lower the NOx emission so they can build houses again.
2020-06-02T00:07:38 < specing> lmao
2020-06-02T00:09:08 < Steffanx> Funny thing. We got into a "NOx crisis" due to the work of a single man. A laywer. A man with a mission
2020-06-02T00:09:48 < Cracki> germoney's trains don't go faster than 160 either. elsewhere they go 320 or even faster (france... japan... the swiss?)
2020-06-02T00:09:57 < Steffanx> Oh the guy wasnt a lawyer. I thought he was
2020-06-02T00:10:00 < Cracki> hm well at night there's less traffic, less polution, so ou can pollute more
2020-06-02T00:10:29 < Cracki> same impact on the environment no matter what time of day you drive, but FLATTEN THE CURVE during daytime perhaps
2020-06-02T00:12:02 < Cracki> driving >130 isn't just for joyrides. for business travel speed makes some difference. less of a diff the faster you go but they are NOT moving towards higher limits
2020-06-02T00:12:22 < specing> business travel should be done via teleconference
2020-06-02T00:12:29 < specing> at 0 km/h
2020-06-02T00:13:06 < Cracki> by business I mean engineering, field tech stuff, service industry, w/e
2020-06-02T00:13:15 < Cracki> not suits talking to each other and doing ppt karaoke
2020-06-02T00:13:15 < catphish> PaulFertser: evora is NA or supercharged, i don't know why they don't use turbo
2020-06-02T00:13:46 < catphish> PaulFertser: i'm looking at buying an NA purely for reasons of money and "NA probably good enough"
2020-06-02T00:14:04 < PaulFertser> Do petrol engines produce much NOx?
2020-06-02T00:15:04 < specing> too much
2020-06-02T00:15:49 < PaulFertser> catphish: I was just curious why they stick to belt-driven compressor unlike other car manufacturers that invest in "twin turbo" and stuff like that.
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2020-06-02T00:16:25 < catphish> PaulFertser: interestingly the car i just bought my wife has both
2020-06-02T00:17:11 < catphish> VW "TSI" has both supercharger and turbocharger
2020-06-02T00:17:18 < PaulFertser> I wonder what Evora can do that your 600cc can't.
2020-06-02T00:17:50 < catphish> keep the rain off me
2020-06-02T00:18:02 < catphish> remember i live in UK where rain is plentiful
2020-06-02T00:18:56 < catphish> also, being able to carry a passenger without them having to cling on for their life is a bonus
2020-06-02T00:19:03 < PaulFertser> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Twincharger heh weird
2020-06-02T00:19:41 < englishman> many have tried paul
2020-06-02T00:19:46 < englishman> i was surprised to see that on the polo
2020-06-02T00:19:46 < catphish> oh, not all TSI engines have supercharger and turocharger
2020-06-02T00:19:53 < catphish> but my polo does it seems
2020-06-02T00:19:58 < englishman> they did not produce that for long
2020-06-02T00:20:16 < PaulFertser> catphish: do you ride for long distances often?
2020-06-02T00:20:22 < catphish> englishman: is there some disadvantage? seems ideal to me
2020-06-02T00:20:37 < PaulFertser> I meant to ask about long hours heh
2020-06-02T00:20:59 < catphish> PaulFertser: no, my commute is 25 minutes, that's the limit unless i go on a road trip which i do like once every couple of years
2020-06-02T00:21:47 < PaulFertser> catphish: 25 minutes under a thunderstorm would be unpleasant, I agree, but other than that, is it really a problem?
2020-06-02T00:22:06 < englishman> catphish: complexity, cost
2020-06-02T00:22:13 < catphish> PaulFertser: well, it's not a problem because i drive my car when the weather is bad
2020-06-02T00:22:26 < PaulFertser> catphish: and if you're riding?
2020-06-02T00:22:33 < catphish> englishman: well i hope the reliability is good, reports i've read are that it is
2020-06-02T00:22:47 < catphish> PaulFertser: i don't
2020-06-02T00:22:57 < catphish> PaulFertser: i ride when the weather is good
2020-06-02T00:23:11 < catphish> PaulFertser: and that's why i want a bike *and* a fast car
2020-06-02T00:23:38 < catphish> also, passengers, it's just not comfortable to go *any* distance on a sports bike with a passenger
2020-06-02T00:24:01 < PaulFertser> When the weather is bad the grip is bad too, so fast car wouldn't be much fun I guess?
2020-06-02T00:24:52 < catphish> maybe it's a matter of experience, but i can drive a car just fine on wet roads, after all i do so almost every day
2020-06-02T00:24:53 < PaulFertser> What if the weather is good on the way there and then turns bad when you have to go home?
2020-06-02T00:25:12 < PaulFertser> Isn't it a matter of physics ;)
2020-06-02T00:25:22 < catphish> PaulFertser: well when they happens i ride slow ad get wet
2020-06-02T00:25:23 < PaulFertser> Wet grip just can't be as good as dry.
2020-06-02T00:25:46 < catphish> wet grip is inferior, but it really doesn't impact car enjoyment for me
2020-06-02T00:26:02 < catphish> whereas i'm terrified to ride a bike under those conditions
2020-06-02T00:26:02 < qyx> buy a smart fortwo
2020-06-02T00:26:04 < PaulFertser> Lucky you
2020-06-02T00:26:20 < catphish> because i can slide my car comfortably but i'd never do so on a bike
2020-06-02T00:26:35 < PaulFertser> BTW, does that Lotus come with dog teeth sequential gearbox?
2020-06-02T00:27:03 < catphish> that particular lotus comes with a "normal" gearbox
2020-06-02T00:27:16 < PaulFertser> So no clutchless switching for you
2020-06-02T00:27:37 < catphish> not that i know of
2020-06-02T00:27:53 < PaulFertser> Do you normally upshift without a clutch on your bike?
2020-06-02T00:28:03 < catphish> no, i always use the clutch
2020-06-02T00:28:04 < PaulFertser> a clutch action
2020-06-02T00:28:11 < catphish> i believe it's possible to avoid it
2020-06-02T00:28:29 < catphish> but out of habit i always use it, i can do it fast enough ayway
2020-06-02T00:28:35 < catphish> *anyway
2020-06-02T00:28:56 < catphish> i'm much better driver than bike rider
2020-06-02T00:29:00 < PaulFertser> Should be trivial on upshifts, just blip the throttle while pulling up, that way is surely faster.
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2020-06-02T00:35:21 < PaulFertser> Hah, I guess you can go 0 -- 130 without switching away from the first?
2020-06-02T00:36:04 < PaulFertser> 120?
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2020-06-02T00:38:08 < PaulFertser> eat that car drivers
2020-06-02T00:40:57 < qyx> today we opened schools after 3 months
2020-06-02T00:41:53 < Cracki> poor children, back into the indoctrination camps
2020-06-02T00:42:12 < qyx> it was adventurous
2020-06-02T00:42:19 < Cracki> akshually some kids expressed that they're learning much faster, or with a lot less time wasted, on their own at home
2020-06-02T00:42:29 < qyx> like walking a dog after 3mo
2020-06-02T00:42:38 < Cracki> which should be the majority of kids, given that a class is roughly as fast as the bottom 10-20%
2020-06-02T00:42:54 < Cracki> if you don't walk your dog for 3 months, he'll explode or shit your house everywhere
2020-06-02T00:43:17 < qyx> it was exactly like that when driving today
2020-06-02T00:43:20 < Cracki> i see your point, it's like extended vacation except not fun
2020-06-02T00:43:32 < qyx> kids everywhere
2020-06-02T00:43:35 < Cracki> lol
2020-06-02T00:43:38 < Cracki> little shits
2020-06-02T00:43:53 < englishman> PaulFertser: the tesla can go 0-230 without shifting
2020-06-02T00:44:05 < englishman> more like
2020-06-02T00:44:10 < englishman> -50-230
2020-06-02T00:44:14 < Cracki> tesla + gears = perpetuum mobile
2020-06-02T00:47:45 < PaulFertser> englishman: :) indeed. But isn't it kinda fascinating that where normal car drivers are on their last gear a sportsbike rider just starts seeing a blinker and has 5 more gears to go? And that bike (used, in good condition) costs less than any new car. And does 0--100 faster than most "supercars"?
2020-06-02T00:48:53 < specing> englishman: why can't it go -230?
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2020-06-02T00:50:03 < qyx> PaulFertser: I would say a car can go 130kmph easily on the third gear
2020-06-02T00:50:24 < qyx> with a chainsaw-like sound
2020-06-02T00:50:31 < qyx> just like bikers
2020-06-02T00:50:46 < qyx> i love when they are accelerating like that at 2am
2020-06-02T00:51:01 < englishman> specing: rear wheel steering with front wheel steering caster?
2020-06-02T00:51:03 < englishman> could try.
2020-06-02T00:51:57 < englishman> PaulFertser: not really. bike motors are made cheap. and nowhere near as much material is used or safety crap integrated. of course they are cheaper.
2020-06-02T00:52:14 < PaulFertser> qyx: sportsbike engines rev up to 15k. So sound will certainly be different. And most people do not drive like that, especially given the speed limit at 90.
2020-06-02T00:52:23 < englishman> when your bike pops after 50,000km you're not really surprised. when that happens to a $12k car it's surprising.
2020-06-02T00:56:38 < qyx> PaulFertser: yeah, I can go 120kmph at silent 2000rpm
2020-06-02T00:57:09 -!- Ecco [~user@unaffiliated/ecco] has joined ##stm32
2020-06-02T01:00:26 < Ecco> Hi :)
2020-06-02T01:02:23 < Cracki> ecchi!
2020-06-02T01:02:30 < Cracki> what are you innovating
2020-06-02T01:02:39 < Ecco> Not much :)
2020-06-02T01:03:22 < Ecco> I was wondering: if one wanted to build a very cheap computer on an STM32 (e.g. kinda like a PDA)
2020-06-02T01:03:37 < Ecco> what kind of OS would you guys recommend? Is there even anything "off the shelf" that would make sense?
2020-06-02T01:03:49 < Ecco> let's say something that would fit in a few MB of Flash
2020-06-02T01:03:59 < Ecco> and that would allow loading and executing external binaries
2020-06-02T01:04:12 < Ecco> (I know there's only so much an MPU can do, but you get the idea)
2020-06-02T01:05:09 < Cracki> I think there are a few RTOSes with enough boilerplate for file systems and whatnot
2020-06-02T01:05:21 < Cracki> you could go with cortex-a processor and linux based os
2020-06-02T01:05:51 < Cracki> there was a discussion a few hours ago about stm32mp1 (and some "SOMs" based on that) vs allwinner chips
2020-06-02T01:05:56 < Ecco> Cracki: yeah, witha Cortex-A then sure
2020-06-02T01:06:04 < Ecco> there are super cheap AllWinner
2020-06-02T01:06:08 < Ecco> Like F1C100s
2020-06-02T01:06:20 < Ecco> they even have like 64 MB of SDRAM
2020-06-02T01:06:30 < Ecco> but you still need to add some significant flash
2020-06-02T01:06:52 < Ecco> Also the datasheet isn't so good
2020-06-02T01:07:04 < Ecco> but my question was more targetted at lower-spec-ed machines
2020-06-02T01:07:50 < qyx> Ecco: nuttx
2020-06-02T01:07:54 < qyx> ask jpa- 
2020-06-02T01:08:03 < qyx> (iirc)
2020-06-02T01:08:54 < Ecco> yeah, I've read a bit about nuttx
2020-06-02T01:09:00 < Ecco> Have you guys ever used it?
2020-06-02T01:09:03 < Ecco> Is it any good?
2020-06-02T01:09:04 < qyx> also I tried f1c100s
2020-06-02T01:09:24 < qyx> I have not
2020-06-02T01:09:34 < Ecco> what was your opinion on those? I built and ran custom built uboot/kernel on an F1C100s
2020-06-02T01:09:44 < Ecco> hardest part was actually buying the part
2020-06-02T01:09:53 < qyx> I got lichee pi nano
2020-06-02T01:10:02 < Ecco> yeah, got one, total piece of shit, dead on arrival
2020-06-02T01:10:05 < qyx> uh, it was like with a missing arm
2020-06-02T01:10:08 < Ecco> also the LCD was nowhere to be found
2020-06-02T01:10:31 < qyx> I had one compatible LCD but wasn't able to get it working
2020-06-02T01:11:20 < qyx> my target was an out-of-band programmer/debugger for a DAQ platform, it should run linux with openocd and VPN over a cellular network
2020-06-02T01:11:38 < Ecco> ok :)
2020-06-02T01:12:33 < qyx> I would say, yeah, it was awkward experience
2020-06-02T01:12:40 < qyx> now it is waiting in a box for revival
2020-06-02T01:13:17 < qyx> did you manage to get plain f1c100s QFNs?
2020-06-02T01:13:22 < Ecco> nope
2020-06-02T01:13:35 < Ecco> you would need to work with a supplier in China for this
2020-06-02T01:13:44 < Ecco> but I found a way to buy a super nice proto-board for them
2020-06-02T01:13:49 < Ecco> actually, on Amazon :-D
2020-06-02T01:13:49 < qyx> which one
2020-06-02T01:14:03 < Ecco> I forgot the name, but it was a video-game console "emulator"
2020-06-02T01:14:12 < Ecco> basically, a cheap linux handheld running a bunch of emulators
2020-06-02T01:14:27 < qyx> on a f1c100s?
2020-06-02T01:14:28 < Ecco> there are tons of them on Amazon, which is kind of surprising since this is a 100% piracy
2020-06-02T01:14:31 < Ecco> yep :)
2020-06-02T01:14:50 < Ecco> I have it right here on my desk actually
2020-06-02T01:15:16 < Ecco> https://www.amazon.com/dp/B07SRXBX2S/
2020-06-02T01:15:22 < Ecco> Amazon Prime, $35
2020-06-02T01:15:26 < Ecco> *including* a screen :)
2020-06-02T01:15:36 < Ecco> (and a bunch of buttons too ^^)
2020-06-02T01:16:17 < Ecco> There's a 2.54mm serial port header on the PCB once you take it apart
2020-06-02T01:16:39 < Ecco> The only trick is that they wired it to UART1 instead of UART0 so you need to pay attention when building uboot/linux
2020-06-02T01:17:00 < Ecco> There's also an (unpopulated) footprint for an SPI memory
2020-06-02T01:17:27 < Ecco> Oh, and it also comes with an 8GB uSD card
2020-06-02T01:17:42 < Ecco> and a microphone and speaker ^^
2020-06-02T01:17:55 < Ecco> pretty cool, isn't it?
2020-06-02T01:20:47 < qyx> interesting
2020-06-02T01:21:21 < Ecco> :)
2020-06-02T01:23:42 < aandrew> Ecco: any good? what is in it? (sorry reading scrollback)
2020-06-02T01:24:29 < aandrew> f1c100, doesn't sound stm32 compatible
2020-06-02T01:27:52 < Ecco>  aandrew: definitely *not* stm32 compatible
2020-06-02T01:28:00 < Ecco> Totally different kind of hardware
2020-06-02T01:33:10 < Ecco> Also, while we're on the topic: which RTOS (as in, scheduler really) would you recommend?
2020-06-02T01:33:15 < Ecco> Is there a "gold standard"?
2020-06-02T01:33:50 < aandrew> me?
2020-06-02T01:34:01 < aandrew> I very rarely have to stray from freertos
2020-06-02T01:34:01 < Ecco> I don't know, anyone here :)
2020-06-02T01:34:23 < Ecco> Is freertos very popular? Is it used in any "big name" project?
2020-06-02T01:41:05 < aandrew> hm
2020-06-02T01:41:25 < aandrew> kicad subpixel antialiasing is kind of weak. the supersampling is the superior option I think, at least for small text
2020-06-02T01:41:29 < aandrew> large text maybe not
2020-06-02T01:46:08 < Cracki> freertos is comparatively bare. other RTOSes bring lots of support for all kinds of stuff with them. i prefer freertos so far. it's in lots of things you'll never know because the license doesn't make you say.
2020-06-02T01:46:17 < Mangy_Dog> https://youtu.be/L5bJ4WnsZyQ
2020-06-02T01:48:37 < aandrew> Ecco: my experience with freertos vs ucos vs bare metal -- I prefer to have freertos around, even if I'm only using very little of it
2020-06-02T01:48:45 < aandrew> it's decent enough
2020-06-02T01:51:54 < qyx> using freertos to be able to use vTaskDelay!
2020-06-02T01:53:17 < Mangy_Dog> ive had a mixed bag getting freertos to work properly
2020-06-02T01:53:52 < Mangy_Dog> i nearly always end up just using a cheap simple (sadly blocking) schedular library
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2020-06-02T02:36:40 < Cracki> boss always wants me to do my own "scheduler" that's basically just software timers. it's tiring. the concept of preemptive multitasking seems to scare him somehow.
2020-06-02T02:38:08 < kakimir> does he know anything?
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2020-06-02T02:47:01 < karlp> you can turn off preemption with freertos via config, do coop only.
2020-06-02T02:47:11 < karlp> thbat's "same" as "manage your own scheduler"
2020-06-02T02:47:27 < karlp> you can do things like, osgetclock() yield() instead of vtaskdelay...
2020-06-02T02:47:29 < bitmask> is there anyway to invert the colors of a black and white pdf?
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2020-06-02T02:48:13 < bitmask> or what I can export this pcb to and then invert while retaining size
2020-06-02T02:49:14 < bitmask> oh altium probably has a setting for that dont it :P
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2020-06-02T02:50:38 < karlp> qyx: why didn't yuou try v3s instead of f1c100?
2020-06-02T02:53:14 < aandrew> Cracki: when I don't use freertos I typically just have a 1msec timer and "peel off" 1ms, 10ms and 100ms flags
2020-06-02T02:53:22 < Cracki> ye
2020-06-02T02:53:44 < aandrew> the idea is that the interrupt hander sets the flags true, then the main loop looks for the flag to be true and runs whatever is supposed to run then, setting it false after
2020-06-02T02:53:55 < aandrew> that way you don't get things "piling up" if something is slow
2020-06-02T02:54:07 < karlp> aka semaphores? :)
2020-06-02T02:54:07 < Cracki> that's how I've been getting by while cubemx fucks up freertos+newlib integration (and I can't be assed to spend brain time understanding the situation and fixing it)
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2020-06-02T02:55:23 < Cracki> makes some things inconvenient to express, such as a "commandline" that may take more than a millisecond to handle something... while something else has to run every millisecond without fail, that also takes more than a dozen microseconds or so
2020-06-02T02:55:44 < Cracki> preemptive scheduler is the obvious solution
2020-06-02T02:55:56 < aandrew> yep
2020-06-02T02:56:04 < aandrew> most times if I have to run that bare metal though I'm not running a CLI
2020-06-02T02:59:34 < karlp> bleh, czech post is still updating trackign daily with "call this nmumber for info"
2020-06-02T02:59:43 < karlp> haven't replied to post, nobody speaks english at that number
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2020-06-02T03:48:38 < Thorn> Cracki cooperative scheduler + preemption via interrupts, works very well
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2020-06-02T04:03:49 < aandrew> karlp: that sucks. I have 3kg of zeolite shipping from china (two separate shipments) that I am starting to suspect will never arrive.
2020-06-02T04:22:10 < Cracki> Thorn, i.e. run stuff in main loop and "normal" interrupt handler usage, or am I missing somthing
2020-06-02T04:22:59 < Thorn> basically. if you have multiple preemptive threads accessing shared variables you need critical sections. cooperative scheduling avoids that
2020-06-02T04:23:11 < Cracki> that would mean my time "critical" stuff would be running from an interrupt handler, which may take some appreciable amount of time, which is usually a big no-no because interrupt handlers are supposed to take very little time
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2020-06-02T04:23:34 < Thorn> interrupts provide fast reaction to events, and they shouldn't touch anything except message queues or semaphores
2020-06-02T04:23:40 < Cracki> of course I could finally take a look into nested interrupts
2020-06-02T04:24:22 < Thorn> that's a "best practice" which is wrong like any other generalization
2020-06-02T04:24:37 < Thorn> I mean "interrupts must take very little time"
2020-06-02T04:24:43 < Cracki> or my depression fucks off for a day and I somehow find the energy to get this set up with freertos
2020-06-02T04:25:15 < specing> hah
2020-06-02T04:25:59 < Cracki> pills don't fix this world. talking to a therapist only results in them blaming me and me jumping out their fucking window.
2020-06-02T04:26:39 < specing> jumping out is not the solution
2020-06-02T04:26:45 < specing> throwing certain people out is
2020-06-02T04:27:13 < Cracki> it's a solution for ruining that therapist's day
2020-06-02T04:27:16 < Cracki> and that'd be worth it
2020-06-02T04:27:19 < Thorn> Iranian hackers tried to poison Israelis by fucking with their water chlorination plants https://kod.ru/iran-povyshenie-cl-v-h2o-israel/
2020-06-02T04:27:30 < Cracki> throwing therapists out the window would make my life worse
2020-06-02T04:27:49 < Cracki> of course if society decided that throwing therapists out the window was an ok thing to do...
2020-06-02T04:28:03 < Cracki> well poisoning? oh gosh
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2020-06-02T04:37:13 < aandrew> I have never in 20y of doing this professionally ever had to dick around with nested interrupts
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2020-06-02T04:37:41 < aandrew> they're one of those things that has very limited use and before you think of using them make damn sure you're not just architecting things poorly
2020-06-02T04:38:27 < Cracki> thx for the confirmation. I was really not inclined to stick my nose in that chapter.
2020-06-02T04:38:40 < jadew`> well, the moment you have an interrupt that's more important than another one, you kind have to consider them
2020-06-02T04:38:53 < jadew`> *kind of
2020-06-02T04:39:25 < Cracki> I think at that point I'd be eyeing fpgas
2020-06-02T04:40:11 < Cracki> or asking the "customer" some tough questions because half the time those ridiculous problems result from someone asking for the moon without knowing the cost
2020-06-02T04:40:22 < aandrew> jadew`: but again, thinking about the architecture often makes that kind of thing go away
2020-06-02T04:40:44 < Cracki> I wish thinking made things go away more often
2020-06-02T04:41:01 < Cracki> curse you, laws of nature
2020-06-02T04:41:34 < Cracki> oh great looting and destruction in NYC now
2020-06-02T04:41:55 < Cracki> I would think up an aneurism right now
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2020-06-02T04:42:28 < jadew`> right, a customer from the US briefly mentioned the looting in an e-mail earlier
2020-06-02T04:42:33 < jadew`> didn't know what to think of it
2020-06-02T04:43:36 < Cracki> think South Africa
2020-06-02T04:44:35 < Cracki> looting isn't protest. kicking unconscious people lying on the ground is not protest. it's domestic terrorism.
2020-06-02T04:44:53 < Cracki> pulling scared truck drivers out of their cabins is not protest.
2020-06-02T04:45:55 < strata> we were almost about to have civil war but our MSM fixed it by turning it into a race war
2020-06-02T04:45:56 < strata> all good
2020-06-02T04:46:02 < Cracki> going out among the rabid mob is a dumb thing to do because you will be murdered by them.
2020-06-02T04:46:14 < strata> i'm a little disappointed we fell for that bait and switch tho
2020-06-02T04:46:24 < aandrew> yep
2020-06-02T04:46:27 < aandrew> I mentioned in antoher chan
2020-06-02T04:46:34 < aandrew> you wanna torch a police department, I feel it
2020-06-02T04:46:55 < strata> could have people with AR15s marching down the halls of congress executing people but nope... they had to make it into a black/white thing to diffuse it
2020-06-02T04:46:55 < aandrew> you want to string up a couple cops for some mob justice? I get what you're feeling but don't think that's wise
2020-06-02T04:47:07 < Cracki> buy reliable, simple to fix guns for everyone you care about. buy enough ammo to keep all those guns shooting for a week straight
2020-06-02T04:47:08 < aandrew> want to go downtown and loot? you lost me. that's got nothing to do with protest
2020-06-02T04:47:13 < Cracki> then hole up and make sure nobody comes near you
2020-06-02T04:47:17 < aandrew> y'alls just a bunch of criminals at that point
2020-06-02T04:48:02 < Cracki> when you say such things you risk being called racist. I'm sick and tired of it.
2020-06-02T04:48:10 < Cracki> they want racists, they can fucking have them
2020-06-02T04:50:06 < Cracki> the commies have been practicing "action" around here (europe) for months and years. I've heard reports that the rioting jumped to australia or the UK
2020-06-02T04:50:31 < strata> FPGA = Fat Pigs Get Arrested
2020-06-02T04:50:33 < Cracki> if that shit starts around me too, I don't know what to do. we have no gun rights here. lots of people would be defenseless.
2020-06-02T04:51:37 < Cracki> and I don't trust police to get a handle on it. they get their marching orders. we see that in the US rn
2020-06-02T04:52:02 < Cracki> while people get kicked to death and buildings burn to the ground, they're told to stand down
2020-06-02T04:52:03 < strata> Cracki, all good. all you gotta do is dress up like a jihadist and learn enough arabic to say "may i see your weapon, comrade? allahu ackbar!" then shoot them and steal the rest of the guns.
2020-06-02T04:52:09 < aandrew> lol @ guns 
2020-06-02T04:52:41 < strata> merkel gives them AK-47s, a passport, and keys to their apartments when they arrive
2020-06-02T04:52:55 < Cracki> mysterious stacks of bricks suddenly rezzed on street corners in some US cities. I've seen videos of several instances.
2020-06-02T04:53:37 < Cracki> pallet of bricks, some "construction" fencing around it, and no signs of actual construction nearby
2020-06-02T04:59:52 < jadew`> aandrew, anarcho communists in the US believe private property is theft
2020-06-02T05:00:12 < jadew`> so in their minds, they are taking what is rightfully theirs
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2020-06-02T05:01:26 < Cracki> there is no thought behind it. they loot because free shit. they are told to loot by puppet masters.
2020-06-02T05:01:30 < jadew`> in their world view, whatever money you have, is partially theirs anyway
2020-06-02T05:01:38 < jadew`> because they contributed somehow
2020-06-02T05:01:38 < Cracki> dressing it up with communism or anticapitalism is just... dressup
2020-06-02T05:01:42 < jadew`> by being part of society
2020-06-02T05:01:50 < Cracki> they want your shit, they dgaf how to justify it
2020-06-02T05:02:59 < strata> "but i need this iphone to get on facebook so i know which businesses to throw bricks at and light on fire. down with capitalism!"
2020-06-02T05:03:03 < Cracki> the race war is here. marxist sophistry will light the fires. its purpose has been reached.
2020-06-02T05:03:22 < jadew`> I'm a peaceful person and I believe everyone should live exactly how they want to live, as long as they're not hurting others
2020-06-02T05:03:33 < jadew`> I honestly wish there was a way for them to form a small communist state
2020-06-02T05:03:34 < Cracki> just saw video of a Nike store getting looted. my heart sings. they had it coming.
2020-06-02T05:03:40 < Cracki> liberia.
2020-06-02T05:04:07 < strata> cuba is a small communist state. we could just send them there
2020-06-02T05:04:18 < Cracki> they have 30 million square kilometers of magic dirt they can do with whatever they want
2020-06-02T05:04:30 < jadew`> they don't want to leave tho
2020-06-02T05:04:39 < strata> north korea is communist too, innit?
2020-06-02T05:04:39 < Cracki> make them. it has to be said.
2020-06-02T05:05:02 < jadew`> because it would mean they would leave all their common possessions behind
2020-06-02T05:05:07 < jadew`> which includes your private property
2020-06-02T05:05:07 < Cracki> it will piss off whoever already lives there but the suffering must be minimized
2020-06-02T05:05:43 < Cracki> historically there have been contracts regulating the resettlement of people
2020-06-02T05:05:56 < Cracki> those contracts also include provisions for property that can't be moved
2020-06-02T05:06:48 < jadew`> personally, I think communism is inescapable
2020-06-02T05:07:24 < strata> Hello Cracki, My name is Doctor Sbaitso. I am here to help you. Say whatever is in your mind freely, our conversation will be kept in strict confidence. Memory contents will be wiped off after you leave, so, tell me about your problems.
2020-06-02T05:07:35 < Cracki> lol
2020-06-02T05:09:08 < Cracki> the military or whoever needs to deploy drones that give continuous high resolution video coverage of all the streets and store fronts
2020-06-02T05:09:39 < Cracki> I don't want a police state but it's unavoidable.
2020-06-02T05:10:09 < Cracki> the least bloodshed would be if they removed the puppet masters but that would basically empty out all the media companies
2020-06-02T05:11:06 < Cracki> you can't leave those talking heads in their places. they'll just keep running their programming. and they can't be deprogrammed that quickly.
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2020-06-02T06:29:06 < upgrdman> how's everyone doing?
2020-06-02T06:29:33 < upgrdman> it feels so weird, to be in cn and see the US go to shit :/
2020-06-02T06:30:14 < upgrdman> at least i've had a few good laughs from the videos of trucks plowing into rioters/protestors
2020-06-02T06:30:56 < upgrdman> let see how much trump stirs up the hate and division
2020-06-02T06:31:31 < Streaker> then you're in luck. he has just invited the US Army into DC.
2020-06-02T06:32:48 < upgrdman> orly? cool
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2020-06-02T07:18:56 < Cracki> it's a civil war
2020-06-02T07:19:51 < Cracki> except people get expensive shit for free, and some people die from getting their teeth kicked in
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2020-06-02T07:52:17 < upgrdman> Cracki, the stock market seems to like the civil war, heh
2020-06-02T07:52:40 < Cracki> gun mfg stocks are rising
2020-06-02T07:53:05 < upgrdman> cool
2020-06-02T08:08:00 < jpa-> Ecco: nuttx can do a lot of the things you want, but you'll hit a bunch of bugs and missing features on the way, and porting applications will not be very easy even though it has some trivial posix-compatibility; for a PDA, i'd add a bit of SDRAM and go with stripped down linux
2020-06-02T08:14:33 < dongs> http://www.sofng.com/usb/TYPE_C_CONNECTORS/list_63_2.html this place is nice
2020-06-02T08:14:38 < dongs> lots of clone stuff
2020-06-02T08:15:12 < dongs> http://www.sofng.com/usb/TYPE_C_CONNECTORS/2018/1120/693.html oooh NICE
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2020-06-02T08:15:15 < dongs> mid-profile 16pin
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2020-06-02T08:18:47 < Cracki> does nuttx have some mechanism for handing it a section of flash containing some structure and machine code, and it starts a task/process from that?
2020-06-02T08:19:16 < Cracki> because the tasks in freertos are baked in and if you wanted to extend that, you'd have to think a little
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2020-06-02T08:20:32 < jpa-> Cracki: yeah, it supports both elf and nxflat binaries; at least nxflats support execute-in-place, not sure about elf
2020-06-02T08:20:37 < Cracki> nice
2020-06-02T08:22:16 < Cracki> >the NXFLAT toolchain is [..] available for ARM and Cortex-M3/4 (thumb2) targets.
2020-06-02T08:22:23 < Cracki> good enough for me
2020-06-02T08:22:25 < jpa-> execute-in-place needs position independent code though, which does put some limits on e.g. callbacks between PIC and non-PIC code
2020-06-02T08:23:15 < dongs> nuttx is still around huh
2020-06-02T08:23:17 < Cracki> how does a bunch of elfs on an stm32 sound
2020-06-02T08:23:22 < dongs> what was the project it was made for, i forgot
2020-06-02T08:23:25 < dongs> some shitcopter stuff?
2020-06-02T08:23:45 < dongs> huh its apacke now?
2020-06-02T08:23:46 < dongs> apache
2020-06-02T08:23:52 < jpa-> dongs: gregory nutt banging at keyboard for two decades & copypasting the files to get more code
2020-06-02T08:31:49 < upgrdman> the guy's last name is nutt? lol
2020-06-02T08:32:11 < upgrdman> almost as amusing as that "mael horz" guy
2020-06-02T09:10:02 < Cracki> https://mobile.twitter.com/shooter72244165/status/1267639471346012160
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2020-06-02T09:21:24 < Steffanx> Its only weird in your mind upgrdman 
2020-06-02T09:33:04 < jadew`> I think youtube wants to motivate me to get a yacht
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2020-06-02T09:45:15 < Cracki> the rossmann is streaming his pitch black store rn. 1000 viewers. maybe we'll see live looting
2020-06-02T09:45:40 < jadew`> is it that bad?
2020-06-02T09:45:55 < Cracki> nyc is getting ransacked
2020-06-02T09:46:14 < Cracki> remember it's nto protests, it's people "shopping" for free
2020-06-02T09:46:25 < jadew`> yeah
2020-06-02T09:46:35 < jadew`> it's a great country that one
2020-06-02T09:46:47 < Cracki> they're probably smart enough to rob the apple store instead of a repair store where most devices sit around half disassembled
2020-06-02T09:46:59 < Cracki> slavery was a mistake
2020-06-02T09:47:02 < jadew`> lol, good point
2020-06-02T09:47:18 < Cracki> nike got robbed, something called "macy's" got robbed
2020-06-02T09:47:29 < jadew`> I don't think what's going on there is because of slavery
2020-06-02T09:47:35 < jadew`> it's because of culture
2020-06-02T09:47:37 < jadew`> which they lack
2020-06-02T09:47:53 < Cracki> they rob everything that has value, and they torch the rest. there was a burning residential building with children inside. they blocked the fire fighters from reaching the building.
2020-06-02T09:48:15 < Cracki> no no, see, if slavery hadn't happened, these problems would not exist now
2020-06-02T09:48:44 < jadew`> I can't tell if you're being sarcastic or not
2020-06-02T09:48:51 < Cracki> I'm dead serious.
2020-06-02T09:49:01 < Cracki> perhaps I'm being cryptic but eh
2020-06-02T09:49:17 < Cracki> reparations for slavery is one of their complaints
2020-06-02T09:49:27 < jadew`> I think that's BS
2020-06-02T09:49:30 < Cracki> obv
2020-06-02T09:49:56 < Cracki> also, no slavery would mean fewer of them having to live oppressed among white devils, instead living among their own kind
2020-06-02T09:50:15 < Cracki> _they_ are calling for separation
2020-06-02T09:50:38 < Cracki> (oh and antifa/commies are adding to the chaos merrily)
2020-06-02T09:51:57 < jadew`> I don't understand reparations... it's such a stupid idea
2020-06-02T09:52:37 < Cracki> reparations are never enough and never end
2020-06-02T09:52:43 < Cracki> so the best amount to pay is 0
2020-06-02T09:52:54 < jadew`> you don't see anyone else crying "hey, you invaded us 300 years ago and kicked our asses because you were the stronger country. Now that you set us free, we want more of your shit."
2020-06-02T09:53:24 < jadew`> I mean... history is history
2020-06-02T09:53:35 < Cracki> europeans shake hands not just after wars, but during them
2020-06-02T09:53:45 < Cracki> only outsiders want reparations
2020-06-02T09:54:36 < Cracki> reparations imply that you've lost a war. they're implying that americans have lost (the country they've built), and now they have to pay to the winners
2020-06-02T09:55:15 < Cracki> it's all in people's minds. winning and losing are frames of mind. you only lose when you've given up.
2020-06-02T09:56:59 < Cracki> the term "oppression olympics" exists for a reason. it's all acting. they want shit without earning it, so they crybully about things that contradict the facts
2020-06-02T09:59:28 < jadew`> it seems to be very difficult to keep everyone happy when you have multiple cultures in the same country
2020-06-02T09:59:42 < jadew`> they'll just push in different directions
2020-06-02T10:00:11 < jadew`> and what's worst, is that if something goes wrong, they'll have someone to blame
2020-06-02T10:00:41 < jadew`> so failure will result in further distancing, instead of self-reflection and growth
2020-06-02T10:04:04 < Cracki> exactly
2020-06-02T10:04:53 < Cracki> they refuse to be policed by the builders, so they have to police their own. maybe that way they'll grow
2020-06-02T10:05:39 < Cracki> I'm just worried that they'll get their own areas, but not the opposite
2020-06-02T10:06:19 < Cracki> it's like gay spaces. those used to exist. now lesbians still get their own spaces, but gays don't.
2020-06-02T10:06:21 < upgrdman> hahaha, Long Beach police defending their choice to let rioting/looting happen right in front of them without arresting people "“That has happened over and over in this country,” he continued. “It’s been a learning point of ours. We have been extremely successful in dealing with multiple protests over the years. And what we’ve learned is people want confrontations with the police many times. So what we do is, we back off
2020-06-02T10:06:22 < upgrdman> , we hope that people will protest peacefully, that there is voluntary compliance…"
2020-06-02T10:06:30 < upgrdman> man, LA county is so fucked up
2020-06-02T10:06:50 < Cracki> liberals
2020-06-02T10:07:05 < Cracki> liberals and their pets
2020-06-02T10:07:39 < jadew`> if I'd be a store owner in the US, I'd be inside, with a machine gun
2020-06-02T10:07:41 < Cracki> that place is fundamentally different from "flyover country". the US should really think about splitting up into sensible units.
2020-06-02T10:07:56 < Cracki> same, except I don't think they can own machine guns.
2020-06-02T10:08:01 < Cracki> semiauto at best.
2020-06-02T10:08:33 < Cracki> I wonder what restrictions they have on robots wielding fire arms.
2020-06-02T10:08:50 < upgrdman> a SuperSoaker filled with gasoline would be "interesting" to see
2020-06-02T10:08:51 < Cracki> aims and shoots like a mofo
2020-06-02T10:08:58 < Cracki> :D
2020-06-02T10:08:59 < upgrdman> (to deploy on the rioters)
2020-06-02T10:11:48 < Cracki> found a small PMDC servo motor on aliex. has a shrinkfit gear on it, module 0.4. how common is module 0.4?
2020-06-02T10:12:43 < Cracki> I'm wondering if I want to induction heat that and switch it for something else... shaft is 3.17 mm (mabuchi)
2020-06-02T10:13:08 < upgrdman> no need to induction heat. a soldering iron is usually enough
2020-06-02T10:13:12 < Cracki> ooh
2020-06-02T10:13:18 < upgrdman> if you don't want to reuse the gear
2020-06-02T10:14:01 < upgrdman> sometimes they are threadlock'd on, so even with heat it may require a little persuasion to get off
2020-06-02T10:15:23 < Cracki> any idea how to get a different gear/widget on? on the plain/knurled shaft motors I have, I copied a part that takes a setscrew or two. if the 3d print isn't too bad that does the job fine
2020-06-02T10:16:00 < Cracki> I don't think I'll reuse what's on there already, soldering iron definitely a good option
2020-06-02T10:18:06 < Cracki> heh. found GT2 pulleys with 3.17 mm bore
2020-06-02T10:20:10 < Cracki> no 12mm hex "hubs" with 3.17mm bore tho. that's what I did for 2.3mm (smaller motor) in plastic.
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2020-06-02T10:24:28 < upgrdman> how to install a new pinion? press it on. you can usually use a vise as a cheap arbor press
2020-06-02T10:24:53 < upgrdman> support the other end of the shaft on one jar, and press the new gear onto the shaft with the other jaw
2020-06-02T10:25:33 < upgrdman> s/jar/jaw
2020-06-02T10:32:24 < mawk> to install a new opinion you need to browse the hashtag for a few hours
2020-06-02T10:38:16 < Cracki> hm right the shaft extends beyond the butt of the motor. I wonder what kinda force it'll take to do that.
2020-06-02T10:38:49 < upgrdman> Cracki, i've done it many times, and it's trivial with a vise
2020-06-02T10:39:13 < upgrdman> i've even seen idiots just hammer a new gear on, but that'll fuck your bearings
2020-06-02T10:39:15 < Cracki> hm, no decent workbench around. eh, I should be getting some kind of vise anyway.
2020-06-02T10:39:27 < Cracki> oh no, not hammer time
2020-06-02T10:39:30 < upgrdman> just go loot one from Homo Depot
2020-06-02T10:39:34 < Cracki> >_>
2020-06-02T10:39:43 < Cracki> and a few bike locks for skull smashing
2020-06-02T10:40:00 < Cracki> commies love bike locks
2020-06-02T10:40:28 < Cracki> I'm so anti-train because all the commies I'm aware of love trains and riding them
2020-06-02T10:41:04 < Cracki> these mabuchi shafts are such odd diameters. they don't even seem to derive from murican imperial measures
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2020-06-02T10:46:34 < Steffanx> Cracki: Secretly you just have social anxiety and dont like (larger) crowds :P
2020-06-02T10:48:02 < Cracki> I'm ok with my own kind. I'm not ok with unpredictable people, which includes outgroups, most types of intoxication, and neurotic NPCs
2020-06-02T10:48:53 < Cracki> there are types of crowd I like. you see them in black and white documentaries.
2020-06-02T10:54:03 < jadew`> here we go again... germans and their eugenics
2020-06-02T10:58:38 < jadew`> joke aside, it's a bit too early for germany to complain about different cultures/foreigners
2020-06-02T10:58:50 < jadew`> might fly in a different country tho
2020-06-02T11:00:28 < upgrdman> why
2020-06-02T11:00:35 < upgrdman> complaining is fun
2020-06-02T11:00:58 < jadew`> upgrdman, yeah, but they want to shake the old labels at all costs
2020-06-02T11:01:29 < upgrdman> "old labels"?
2020-06-02T11:01:41 < jadew`> white supremacists/natzis
2020-06-02T11:02:10 < upgrdman> k
2020-06-02T11:02:41 < mawk> nahzee
2020-06-02T11:02:49 < upgrdman> im reminding of that meme with a photo of hitler, with a caption "don't be sad that it's over, be glad that it happened."
2020-06-02T11:03:04 < jadew`> lol
2020-06-02T11:05:13 < mawk> you're on a slippery slope upgrdman I'm this close from calling my mossad friends
2020-06-02T11:05:37 < upgrdman> haha wut
2020-06-02T11:06:20 < Cracki> o* v**
2020-06-02T11:09:32 < Cracki> if you wanna know about eugenics, look into who is behind planned parenthood, and how they're buddies with the gateses
2020-06-02T11:10:50 < jadew`> is Bill Gates bad?
2020-06-02T11:11:33 < jadew`> let's ask google
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2020-06-02T11:15:27 < Cracki> imagine the search terms that give this channel's logs for #1 result
2020-06-02T11:16:08 < jadew`> lol
2020-06-02T11:20:06 < mawk> I still don't get why gates is bad
2020-06-02T11:20:19 < jadew`> he's not
2020-06-02T11:20:20 < mawk> he's for abortion and contraception sure, but there are sensible arguments for that
2020-06-02T11:20:30 < mawk> and as for the nanochip thing, well lol
2020-06-02T11:20:43 < jpa-> Cracki: sadly google doesn't seem to index our logs anymore
2020-06-02T11:20:55 < mawk> dongs blacklisted us
2020-06-02T11:21:07 < mawk> too many jewnigger words
2020-06-02T11:21:11 < jadew`> lol
2020-06-02T11:21:21 < Cracki> good, more of those
2020-06-02T11:21:25 < dongs> lmaoo
2020-06-02T11:21:31 < dongs> > black listed
2020-06-02T11:21:36 < Cracki> >blacked
2020-06-02T11:22:37 < Cracki> anyway, the sinister thing about gates is the "id2020" stuff and you don't know how far he wants to take the population control stuff, or who's gonna get hit by it
2020-06-02T11:23:52 < jadew`> "ID2020 is a nongovernmental organization which advocates for digital ID for the billion undocumented people worldwide and under-served groups like refugees."
2020-06-02T11:24:16 < jadew`> is that like an ID for the poor?
2020-06-02T11:24:16 < Cracki> i.e. massive data collection apparatus that just begs to be abused
2020-06-02T11:24:22 < Cracki> yes, ostensibly
2020-06-02T11:24:28 < mawk> are they going to tatoo them ?
2020-06-02T11:24:38 < mawk> give them each a number
2020-06-02T11:24:41 < Cracki> kinda
2020-06-02T11:24:51 < Cracki> you get uv visible shit tattooed under your skin
2020-06-02T11:24:56 < Cracki> or soemthing like that was it
2020-06-02T11:25:03 < jadew`> wow
2020-06-02T11:25:05 < jadew`> like cattle
2020-06-02T11:25:10 < mawk> yeah that's the only solution I guess
2020-06-02T11:25:15 < Cracki> they give you that tattoo at the same time you get vaccinated, by a patch full of micro needles
2020-06-02T11:25:18 < mawk> for people poor enough to not be able to hold to an ID
2020-06-02T11:25:49 < Cracki> when you have to handle a billion people, they _are_ cattle
2020-06-02T11:26:07 < Cracki> even a few hundred million are cattle
2020-06-02T11:26:07 < jadew`> sounds very dystopian
2020-06-02T11:26:34 < jadew`> I think it's a good idea
2020-06-02T11:26:41 < Cracki> people are a renewable resource, like forest. cut down a few square kilometers, nobody cries over it
2020-06-02T11:27:12 < jadew`> how's the tattoo id related to that?
2020-06-02T11:27:44 < Cracki> people are evolved to care about others, but also to only be informed about the people closest to them, not people halfway around the world
2020-06-02T11:28:09 < Cracki> today, you get info on anyone anywhere
2020-06-02T11:28:50 < jadew`> I don't think the tattoo is a problem really
2020-06-02T11:28:52 < Cracki> people can emotionally handle only small numbers, but thousands, millions, billions, and certainly not probabilities
2020-06-02T11:28:57 < jadew`> it solves a very real problem
2020-06-02T11:29:02 < Cracki> probabilities are witchcraft to the average person
2020-06-02T11:29:15 < jadew`> those people don't have phones, so they can't be tracked
2020-06-02T11:29:47 < Cracki> which is why a chance of 0.02% of dying of the wuflu, and a chance of 0.1% of even catching it, are not imaginable
2020-06-02T11:30:07 < Cracki> (numbers for people under 50)
2020-06-02T11:30:38 < jadew`> well, if epidemiologists are correct, the odds of catching it are like... 50%
2020-06-02T11:30:46 < jadew`> if not higher
2020-06-02T11:30:59 < Cracki> the 70-90 and 90+ age groups around here have 10-30% chance of dying of the stuff, if they catch it
2020-06-02T11:31:18 < Cracki> the odds of catching it if someone sneezes at your face
2020-06-02T11:31:35 < Cracki> the odds of catching it while rioting like a dumb animal
2020-06-02T11:31:41 < jadew`> no, like in a year or two
2020-06-02T11:31:45 < Cracki> not the odds of catching it with sensible precautions
2020-06-02T11:31:49 < Cracki> we'll see
2020-06-02T11:32:07 < jadew`> in here almost everyone is relaxed
2020-06-02T11:32:22 < jadew`> the effects of the lockdown lead them to believe it's BS
2020-06-02T11:32:22 < Cracki> rn, in my country, the numbers indicate single thousands ppm and it's been trending down for a month
2020-06-02T11:32:58 < Cracki> killing big events, the virgin distance, and masks, do their part for sure
2020-06-02T11:32:59 < jadew`> I have a new theory
2020-06-02T11:33:04 < jadew`> regarding covid
2020-06-02T11:33:51 < Cracki> the antidote is bats eating human soup
2020-06-02T11:33:56 < jadew`> they either planned the lockdown to get us out of flu-season (including wuflu), in which case we're going to die next year, in January/February, like the Chinese
2020-06-02T11:34:09 < jadew`> which would indicate that it has been going on in China for much longer
2020-06-02T11:34:47 < jadew`> or 2) They just had to relax the lockdown and it will quickly spike up again
2020-06-02T11:34:55 < Cracki> a while ago I found a paper where they discovered a case (in france?) that was december, or even earlier
2020-06-02T11:35:08 < Cracki> eh
2020-06-02T11:35:16 < Cracki> they should just get it over with
2020-06-02T11:35:40 < Cracki> protect risk groups, let the rest of the world carry on with their lives
2020-06-02T11:35:53 < Cracki> the vaccine is for those risk groups
2020-06-02T11:36:58 < jadew`> I don't know... if the plan is to create herd immunity, I'm gonna stay indoors
2020-06-02T11:37:41 < jadew`> the lockdown has done amazing things for my wife's culinary skills
2020-06-02T11:37:48 < Steffanx> Just let your prime minister celebrate his birthday jadew
2020-06-02T11:37:56 < jadew`> I've never eaten so well, for such a long period of time before
2020-06-02T11:38:59 < jadew`> Steffanx, that happened somewhere?
2020-06-02T11:40:29 < Cracki> numbers here: 0.02% for ages 0-20, 0.1% for 20-50, 1.9% for 50-70, 20% for 70-90, 30% for 90+
2020-06-02T11:40:37 < Cracki> (fatality)
2020-06-02T11:40:54 < jadew`> after you contract it?
2020-06-02T11:41:05 < Cracki> with ~3k ppm infected in the range upto 90
2020-06-02T11:41:09 < Cracki> yes, after you contract it
2020-06-02T11:41:22 < Cracki> 8k ppm infected among the 90+ers
2020-06-02T11:41:35 < Cracki> and not even 1k ppm in 0-20yo
2020-06-02T11:42:33 < jadew`> so... with 60% of the population infected we're looking at 0.05 - 0.06% chance of dying from this in the next year or so
2020-06-02T11:42:34 < Cracki> my source. numbers are strewn about, absolute deaths in a table, absolute cases in a paragraph, incidences in a bargraph : https://www.rki.de/DE/Content/InfAZ/N/Neuartiges_Coronavirus/Situationsberichte/2020-06-01-de.pdf?__blob=publicationFile
2020-06-02T11:42:50 < Cracki> who says 60% infected
2020-06-02T11:43:00 < jadew`> Cracki, actually they said 70%
2020-06-02T11:43:06 < Cracki> I see not even 0.1% infected so far
2020-06-02T11:43:23 < Cracki> uh wait 0.5% about
2020-06-02T11:43:26 < jadew`> epidemiologists; that's the number of people that have to get infected for herd immunity
2020-06-02T11:43:31 < Cracki> eh
2020-06-02T11:44:00 < jadew`> so about 1:2000 chances of dying
2020-06-02T11:44:20 < ds2> what's that 0.5% from?
2020-06-02T11:44:34 < ds2> RNA tests or antibody test?
2020-06-02T11:44:50 < Cracki> me eyeballing that bargraph where they give 1k,3k,8k ppm incidence (dep. on age) for germany
2020-06-02T11:45:05 < Cracki> cba to find how they test, I'm sure it's the more proper method
2020-06-02T11:45:29 < jadew`> right, 0.5% infected here as well
2020-06-02T11:45:42 < ds2> RNA tells you who has it NOW. Antibody suppose to tell you who's had it
2020-06-02T11:45:44 < Cracki> anyway, people die every day
2020-06-02T11:45:53 < Cracki> people die from getting their teeth kicked in right now in murica
2020-06-02T11:46:05 < ds2> I'd assume they are referring to 70% antibody test
2020-06-02T11:46:47 < Cracki> I'm only wondering how these riots are gonna turn out in terms of disease
2020-06-02T11:47:05 < Cracki> most of these people are in the healthy age range, they'll all survive
2020-06-02T11:47:06 < jadew`> probably more than a couple of STDs
2020-06-02T11:47:24 < Cracki> but if they are as dumb as they seem, they'll go hug their grandma, and she will die
2020-06-02T11:47:41 < Cracki> probably lots of lice, commies don't shower
2020-06-02T11:48:10 < Cracki> lice and cooties. those hairy fucks
2020-06-02T11:48:41 < jadew`> I can confirm the shower thing, we didn't have enough hot water for that during communism
2020-06-02T11:48:59 < jadew`> we only had hot water for ~1 hour every couple of days
2020-06-02T11:49:15 < Steffanx> Random google result jadew:
2020-06-02T11:49:17 < Steffanx> https://www.canberratimes.com.au/story/6775583/romania-pm-breaches-own-virus-rules-fined/?cs=14232
2020-06-02T11:49:25 < Cracki> dude from venezuela on twitter reports water rations all the time. it's awful.
2020-06-02T11:49:41 < jadew`> Steffanx, hehe
2020-06-02T11:50:10 < Cracki> those western commies live in luxury. they _choose_ to be mangy pests.
2020-06-02T11:50:33 < jadew`> yeah, but they don't like it
2020-06-02T11:50:40 < jadew`> because there's not enough equality
2020-06-02T11:51:07 < Cracki> oh they love it. it's a uniform to them. dyed hair, dread locks, tattoos, generally greasy appearance, ...
2020-06-02T11:51:22 < jadew`> when everyone has rationed water (btw, cold water was rationed too - we had a river in our city), then everything will be better
2020-06-02T11:51:58 < Cracki> you know why commies are afraid of walls? they know they're gonna stand in front of one eventually
2020-06-02T11:52:30 < Cracki> that and helicopters. commies hate helicopters. helicopters are hovering over rioters and they piss themselves
2020-06-02T11:53:05 < Cracki> the only thing scarier to a commie than a heli above him is him in the helicopter... looking down
2020-06-02T11:55:05 < qyx> karlp: mhm, idk
2020-06-02T11:57:36 < qyx> it is basically the same
2020-06-02T11:57:39 < qyx> qfp instead of qfn
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2020-06-02T12:23:54 < karlp> qyx: well, it's a much more well supported core and periphs aiui
2020-06-02T12:24:59 < qyx> I got everything working iirc except openocd's sysfs gpio
2020-06-02T12:25:03 < qyx> which is super slow
2020-06-02T12:25:03 < karlp> oh, the cracki show was on again. yay
2020-06-02T12:29:27 < dongs> whats better cracki show or whats that dude who is making a heater jacket even tho its alreay summer
2020-06-02T12:29:42 < karlp> dongs: yeah, I chose some sofng usb connectors for myhub
2020-06-02T12:29:47 < dongs> nice
2020-06-02T12:30:01 < Cracki> heater jacket, that was bitmask I think
2020-06-02T12:30:10 < dongs> yes that
2020-06-02T12:31:03 < Cracki> maybe he's gonna take a winter holiday with that thing
2020-06-02T12:31:18 < karlp> sofng was super cheap, pdfs with nice drawings, 3d models, and pin compatible with expensive alternatives.  1000% win
2020-06-02T12:31:29 < Cracki> if the US burns, he might move to canada. I hear it's colder there.
2020-06-02T12:42:01 < specing> Cracki: yeah, fuck commies. Who needs vacations, limited work hours and any form of worker rights, anyway
2020-06-02T12:42:50 < Cracki> you can have that without commies
2020-06-02T12:43:13 < Cracki> commies today are anti-worker
2020-06-02T13:00:45 < specing> nope, you can't have that without commies
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2020-06-02T16:12:33 < Thorn> my stm32mp1 is in Kazakhstan
2020-06-02T16:13:10 < Thorn> hopefully they're not going to send it to the ISS
2020-06-02T16:16:15 < specing> Hahaha
2020-06-02T16:17:22 < mawk> it's getting tapped
2020-06-02T16:17:33 < mawk> putin is soldering its nanochip, then the package is back on its track
2020-06-02T16:18:20 < PaulFertser> Notice how mawk considers putin to be inhumane
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2020-06-02T16:29:38 < aandrew> got my sonoff zigbee bridge on order
2020-06-02T16:31:44 < englishman> i got one of those boneoff shits from ikea
2020-06-02T16:31:46 < englishman> and returned it
2020-06-02T16:31:49 < englishman> what useless shit
2020-06-02T16:32:06 < englishman> oh great a speaker that ONLY works with spotify
2020-06-02T16:32:25 < aandrew> no no
2020-06-02T16:32:26 < englishman> and 3 other pre-approved apps
2020-06-02T16:32:49 < aandrew> I have the sonoff 433 bridge, it's kind of shitty, and the zigbee bridge will be as well
2020-06-02T16:32:54 < aandrew> the point is the radio
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2020-06-02T16:34:18 < englishman> as an opensores zealot i find it weird you would buy such a thing
2020-06-02T16:34:33 < englishman> but idk about anything they make besides the crappy speakers
2020-06-02T16:34:43 < englishman> which are even more of a walled garden than apple stuff
2020-06-02T16:35:08 < aandrew> there's a serious effort by Tasmota now to reverse it and document it: https://github.com/arendst/Tasmota/issues/8583
2020-06-02T16:36:27 < englishman> oh, i see
2020-06-02T16:36:35 < englishman> a $20 zigbee board with esp1488
2020-06-02T16:36:36 < englishman> nice
2020-06-02T16:40:27 < aandrew> ^^ yep
2020-06-02T16:40:32 < aandrew> just to play
2020-06-02T16:40:41 < aandrew> gotta find something like that for z-wave too now
2020-06-02T16:43:15 < aandrew> for my 433 stuff I'm actually doing most of it with rtlsdr and dicking around
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2020-06-02T16:52:12 < Laurenceb> >me is reading old babbyshake emails
2020-06-02T16:52:30  * specing shakes Laurenceb
2020-06-02T16:52:31 < Laurenceb> >use shape memory alloys to shop babbyshake
2020-06-02T16:52:59 < Laurenceb> everything about that project was a meme
2020-06-02T16:54:02 < mawk> PaulFertser :(
2020-06-02T16:54:36 < PaulFertser> mawk: what's wrong man? Are you getting better btw, no more stupdin coughing?
2020-06-02T16:56:03 < Laurenceb> mawk has coronavirus?
2020-06-02T16:56:44 < mawk> I have a lidocain spray
2020-06-02T16:56:46 < mawk> so I don't cough
2020-06-02T16:56:50 < strata> mawk has CoronAVRus
2020-06-02T16:57:11 < mawk> lol
2020-06-02T16:57:19 < mawk> but besides coughing and some minor stuff it's fine
2020-06-02T16:57:27 < mawk> it's probably some cold or some angina
2020-06-02T16:58:04 < strata> they put him in the hospital on a ventilator made out of adafruit parts by the local MAKE:R space
2020-06-02T16:59:50 < PaulFertser> angina can be very dangerous I guess it's not wise to suppress its symptoms with lidocain. You might need proper antibiotic treatment.
2020-06-02T17:02:15 < mawk> if I cough I'll get lynched by people
2020-06-02T17:04:06 < PaulFertser> Where? Aren't you sitting at home anyway?
2020-06-02T17:04:34 < PaulFertser> Angina can be really dangerous afaik. Damage to the heart is possible.
2020-06-02T17:28:44 < Steffanx> Heh, Mawk
2020-06-02T17:28:47 < Steffanx> Dont you love it
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2020-06-02T17:56:44 < Laurenceb> https://blogs.lse.ac.uk/usappblog/2020/04/09/how-mens-misplaced-sense-of-masculinity-in-the-face-of-covid-19-may-be-killing-them/
2020-06-02T17:56:47 < Laurenceb> attn mawk
2020-06-02T17:56:58 < Laurenceb> patriarchy did covid-19
2020-06-02T17:59:31 < strata> "Or does is only seem like men are less likely to wash their hands because they’re more likely to be Republicans, a group that, until very recently, has been skeptical about the threat posed by the virus?"
2020-06-02T17:59:43 < strata> where do you find this nonsense, Laurenceb?
2020-06-02T17:59:46 < strata> this is lulz
2020-06-02T17:59:54 < Laurenceb> reddit
2020-06-02T18:00:07 < Laurenceb> the ebil incel subreddits
2020-06-02T18:00:23 < strata> it's not that you don't wash your hands because you're a skank... it's because you're a republican!
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2020-06-02T19:52:24 < emeb> Just updated my big H7 project to latest version of CubeMX (CMSIS, HAL libs). Seems there's a lot of new stuff in HAL this time, but doesn't seem to have broken anything in my project.
2020-06-02T19:58:51 < mawk> nice
2020-06-02T19:58:54 < mawk> I received my airco Steffanx 
2020-06-02T19:58:58 < mawk> it's a whole new world
2020-06-02T19:59:03 < mawk> a whole new world of constant noise
2020-06-02T19:59:10 < mawk> 65dB 1m from my ears
2020-06-02T19:59:50 < Steffanx> Yes, fucking awful
2020-06-02T19:59:56 < Steffanx> now you need a noise cancelling headphone
2020-06-02T19:59:58 < Steffanx> s
2020-06-02T20:00:04 < BrainDamage> put music 20dB louder
2020-06-02T20:00:08 < mawk> lol
2020-06-02T20:00:14 < englishman> more sine waves to cancel the evil sine waves
2020-06-02T20:00:18 < englishman> fight fire with fire
2020-06-02T20:01:12 < mawk> that's not a nice sine wave, hard to cancel
2020-06-02T20:01:28 < mawk> it's like pure noise and on top of that the sound of a shitty compressor
2020-06-02T20:01:36 < Steffanx> noise like that is perfect to cancel.
2020-06-02T20:01:41 < antto> shhhhhhhhhhhh bzzzzzzzzzzzzzz
2020-06-02T20:01:44 < mawk> how
2020-06-02T20:02:02 < antto> switch it off
2020-06-02T20:02:04 < antto> ;P~
2020-06-02T20:02:06 < mawk> :(
2020-06-02T20:02:13 < Steffanx> ask sony. My headphones do a perfect job at cancelling noise like that
2020-06-02T20:02:14 < antto> WORKS PERFECTLY
2020-06-02T20:02:22 < Steffanx> They suck at cancelling human voices.
2020-06-02T20:02:26 < BrainDamage> noise canceling headphones work best at canceling stationary noises
2020-06-02T20:02:28 < Steffanx> which would be more awesome
2020-06-02T20:02:37 < BrainDamage> where stationary = fits the analysis buffer
2020-06-02T20:07:21 < emeb> put the A/C in another room & pipe the cool in from there.
2020-06-02T20:07:50 < Steffanx> there has to be another room for that
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2020-06-02T20:14:34 < Cracki> deep learning to cancel voices. the DNN adapts to and predicts the speaker.
2020-06-02T20:14:41 < Cracki> *waves magic wand*
2020-06-02T20:14:56 < Cracki> should work well on most people. they say predictable stuff.
2020-06-02T20:17:43 < BrainDamage> remember it has to run on restricted resources
2020-06-02T20:18:52 < BrainDamage> otherwise, yes, RNN work well on voices: https://gitlab.com/drowe67/LPCNet_codec2
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2020-06-02T20:26:28 < mawk> I can't pipe the cool emeb only the hot
2020-06-02T20:28:42 < Cracki> ST has "CubeAI" for audio DSP. I think that'll work but who knows how power hungry it'd be
2020-06-02T20:33:20 < Steffanx> ST has all kinds of audio stuff, but in the end its all demo/binary only crap
2020-06-02T20:33:48 < Steffanx> and all kinds of weirdly mixed soft-fp and hard-fp only libs.
2020-06-02T20:39:24 < Cracki> the "value" part of their "cubeai" is the desktop side. it seems to include a tool that helps you quantize your network to integers
2020-06-02T20:39:40 < Cracki> and some code gen around it all because why not
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2020-06-02T21:15:35 < benishor> oh, stm and audio and dsp
2020-06-02T21:15:50 < benishor> here, I'll ask again for help, perhaps someone can lend a hand
2020-06-02T21:16:12 < emeb> is cube-ai audio dsp or neural networks?
2020-06-02T21:16:37 < benishor> I have a stm32f746 discovery board and I want to configure both SAI and DMA to work with 24bit samples using the onboard WM8994 codec
2020-06-02T21:16:55 < benishor> can anyone share what's there to be done, at least high level?
2020-06-02T21:17:09 < benishor> the HAL driver seems to only do 16bit
2020-06-02T21:18:56 < benishor> fuck 24bit. say 32 bit
2020-06-02T21:19:15 < benishor> since the codec can be configured for 32bit I2S
2020-06-02T21:19:20 < emeb> configure your SAI for 32-bit frames
2020-06-02T21:19:35 < emeb> needs a couple changes in the SAI setup
2020-06-02T21:19:43 < benishor> also in the DMA setup I would suppose
2020-06-02T21:19:48 < emeb> yes
2020-06-02T21:19:54 < emeb> word instead of half-word
2020-06-02T21:21:55 < benishor> so here, for instance https://github.com/pavel-demin/stm32f7-discovery-usb-headset/blob/master/Drivers/BSP/STM32746G-Discovery/stm32746g_discovery_audio.c
2020-06-02T21:21:59 < benishor> what would you change?
2020-06-02T21:24:21 < emeb> lol
2020-06-02T21:24:34 < emeb> give someone a 1300 line file and ask for #exactsteps
2020-06-02T21:25:36 < benishor> what, can't you do it on the spot?
2020-06-02T21:25:46 < benishor> no abstracting skils?
2020-06-02T21:25:48 < benishor> no skimming?
2020-06-02T21:26:13 < benishor> sorry, I thought you were familiar with the file
2020-06-02T21:26:33 < emeb> haudio_in_sai.Init.DataSize = SAI_DATASIZE_16; -> SAI_DATASIZE_24
2020-06-02T21:26:39 < emeb> (or 32 if you like)
2020-06-02T21:27:01 < benishor> check this for instance https://github.com/pavel-demin/stm32f7-discovery-usb-headset/blob/master/Drivers/BSP/STM32746G-Discovery/stm32746g_discovery_audio.c#L708
2020-06-02T21:28:56 < emeb> FrameLength & ActiveFrameLength are already fine
2020-06-02T21:29:29 < emeb> SlotSize should be SAI_SLOTSIZE_32B
2020-06-02T21:31:06 < emeb> AUDIO_IN_SAIx_DMAx_PERIPH_DATA_SIZE  & AUDIO_IN_SAIx_DMAx_MEM_DATA_SIZE should be DMA_PDATAALIGN_WORD & DMA_MDATAALIGN_WORD
2020-06-02T21:31:22 < benishor> sorry, what did I miss?
2020-06-02T21:31:27 < benishor> the bnc was reconnecting
2020-06-02T21:31:36 < benishor> [21:28] <emeb> FrameLength & ActiveFrameLength are already fine
2020-06-02T21:31:36 < emeb> I told you exactly what to do. 
2020-06-02T21:31:38 < zyp> see logs in topic
2020-06-02T21:31:48 < benishor> emeb: that was the last I got
2020-06-02T21:31:49 < benishor> zyp: thanks
2020-06-02T22:18:30 < qyx> [    0.068985] Yama: becoming mindful.
2020-06-02T22:18:33 < qyx> wut
2020-06-02T22:18:55 < zyp> have you achieved sentience?
2020-06-02T22:21:22 < qyx> idk reading boot log
2020-06-02T22:22:20 < qyx> https://paste.jvnv.net/view/sv3Je
2020-06-02T22:22:23 < qyx> doesn't look good
2020-06-02T22:25:46 < zyp> http://e2e.ti.com/support/processors/f/791/t/663978?Linux-AM3358-Kernel-boot-error this perhaps?
2020-06-02T22:27:02 < zyp> apparently that error is caused by trying to access the RTC when it's not powered properly
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2020-06-02T22:31:23 < Cracki> emeb, it's neural networks. typical data is audio/accelerometer/gyro/... because it's not as high dimensional as images/video. you can feed it anything.
2020-06-02T22:31:52  * emeb feeds it a tuna sandwich
2020-06-02T22:32:41 < Cracki> benishor, if you have a bnc, figure out how to make it buffer/replay messages upon reconnect
2020-06-02T22:33:15 < Cracki> I guess you can feed the AI gps and sonar and maybe salinity, tension on the dragnet, ...
2020-06-02T22:33:21 < englishman> windows 8.1 and older INFs for mdmcpq.inf dont have to be WHQL'd right
2020-06-02T22:33:23 < englishman> they just work?
2020-06-02T22:34:06 < benishor> Cracki:  znc did its job just fine. I was scared of possibly missing the only pertinent answer I had in weeks since dealing with my problem :)
2020-06-02T22:34:16 < Cracki> heh
2020-06-02T22:35:33 < Cracki> I'd expect it to spew a buffer with some overlap, so you can tell from a single glance that you got everything
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2020-06-02T22:49:36 < qyx> zyp: me dumb
2020-06-02T22:53:18 < zyp> qyx, how so?
2020-06-02T22:54:05 < Steffanx> Do not question his dumbness please...
2020-06-02T22:54:15 < zyp> I question all the dumbness I want
2020-06-02T22:54:24 < Steffanx> Ok Boss
2020-06-02T22:57:48 < englishman> yeah the inf just installs as cert'd by Windows
2020-06-02T23:02:11 < qyx> zyp: checked the refman for that address, yeah, it is the rtc.. now i removed the driver and there is still something triggering the error
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2020-06-02T23:09:58 < Thorn> how do I compile gcc for arm-none-eabi from source?
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2020-06-02T23:10:15 < Thorn> compiling native gcc 10.1 on mac os was very easy
2020-06-02T23:10:48 < Thorn> now I want gcc 10 for cortex-m
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2020-06-02T23:16:12 < Cracki> how's this https://vivonomicon.com/2019/02/19/building-a-bare-metal-arm-gcc-toolchain-from-source/
2020-06-02T23:16:45 < Cracki> (apart from macos specific stuff)
2020-06-02T23:34:23 < Steffanx> I recall dekar was into that, but .. i cannot find his github
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2020-06-02T23:35:37 < Steffanx> now i did, but he stopped at 9.2.0
2020-06-02T23:45:36 < Thorn> Cracki that uses arm-none-eabi source from ARM, arm-none-eabi-gcc 10 is not yet released
2020-06-02T23:45:45 < Thorn> I wanted to build it from mainline
2020-06-02T23:45:48 < Cracki> ic
2020-06-02T23:46:19 < Thorn> if it were released I could just download a binary package
2020-06-02T23:46:20 < Cracki> I take it ARM adds some stuff to it that makes building their package easier to deal with than mainline
2020-06-02T23:50:38 < Cracki> where do they keep the source for arm gcc, in this cruddy launchpad?
2020-06-02T23:51:41 < Cracki> does arm even upstream their stuff
2020-06-02T23:55:45 < zyp> they used to at least
2020-06-02T23:56:20 < Steffanx> Oh gooday mr Thorn
2020-06-02T23:56:27 < zyp> IIRC gcc-arm-embedded used to be all mainline, but I'm not sure what the current situation is
2020-06-02T23:56:51 < Thorn> Steffanx good midnight
2020-06-02T23:56:54 < Cracki> ah, gcc source has "arm*" named stuff in gcc/config/arm and a few other locations
2020-06-02T23:58:38 < Cracki> this isn't for arm, but it seems to talk about how to build the toolchain for a specific target https://embarc.org/toolchain/maintainer/manual-build.html
2020-06-02T23:59:06 < Cracki> it's all probably in some official docs too...
--- Day changed Wed Jun 03 2020
2020-06-03T00:00:42 < Cracki> I see similarities with avr gcc. "./configure ... --target=avr ..." https://www.nongnu.org/avr-libc/user-manual/install_tools.html
2020-06-03T00:01:00 < Cracki> there we go https://gcc.gnu.org/install/configure.html
2020-06-03T00:03:04 < Cracki> someone's recipe: https://gist.github.com/luc-tielen/4bba9a81bd9cdabca6e23a0c3b33ace3
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2020-06-03T00:23:02 < karlp> there's a readme in the source tarballs from arm that says how to rebuild it....
2020-06-03T00:23:25 < karlp> the instructions will be ~ßame
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2020-06-03T02:25:44 < bitmask> damnnn this came out good, second times the charm
2020-06-03T02:25:46 < bitmask> https://i.imgur.com/Zl96FF5.jpg?1
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2020-06-03T02:26:50 < Laurenceb> most epin troll
2020-06-03T02:26:52 < Laurenceb> https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/technology-52891650
2020-06-03T02:29:21 < Cracki> Laurenceb, do they know why that happens?
2020-06-03T02:29:43 < Cracki> I saw someone post code that does a histogram... with buckets 0..255, but indexes calculated as r+g+b, which gives range 0..255*3
2020-06-03T02:30:18 < Cracki> the code calls the input image "grayscale" so I have no idea why they'd add r,g,b from that
2020-06-03T02:30:34 < Cracki> or why they don't apply some weighted sum at least
2020-06-03T02:32:20 < Cracki> ah, just unsupported color space not handled...
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2020-06-03T03:31:58 < Cracki> foundry/forge https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l95fkSaaOEE
2020-06-03T03:43:42 < Steffanx> Lol im tempted to try
2020-06-03T03:43:50 < Steffanx> That picture
2020-06-03T04:02:26 < Laurenceb> blackman
2020-06-03T04:02:26 < Laurenceb> error: Invalid call to blackman.  Correct usage is:
2020-06-03T04:02:26 < Laurenceb>  -- Function File:  blackman (M)
2020-06-03T04:02:35 < Laurenceb> muh pc is wacist
2020-06-03T04:06:01 < Cracki> window functions?
2020-06-03T04:06:07 < Laurenceb> >methlab has backman and cumtrapz
2020-06-03T04:06:09 < Laurenceb> yeah
2020-06-03T04:06:16 < Cracki> wat
2020-06-03T04:06:35 < Cracki> oh btw everyone calls it hanning (<>hamming) but the dude's name was just hann
2020-06-03T04:29:49 < strata> what is this vbscript not equal syntax, Cracki.
2020-06-03T04:30:17 < Cracki> imagine hands going < > < > < >
2020-06-03T04:30:38 < strata> vbscript <> is <> not <> ok <> Cracki
2020-06-03T04:31:27 < BrainDamage> ahaha, arguing about syntax, mathematicians and their single letter variables go b(r,r,r,r,r,r,r)
2020-06-03T04:31:36 < Cracki> heh
2020-06-03T04:31:57 < Cracki> greek letters are for noobs. the real big brains use hebrew script
2020-06-03T04:32:49 < Cracki> they're already familiar with those things. that's why high end assembly code is usually all russian
2020-06-03T04:33:07 < Cracki> or why military stuff is all german
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2020-06-03T06:39:53 < Thorn> for retrocomputing geeks https://it.unt.edu/benchmarks-archives-1999-1980
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2020-06-03T07:08:01 < Cracki> 1980. "SPSS" is a thing already. today it's still based on punch cards.
2020-06-03T07:17:27 < Cracki> hahaha real humans wrote that stuff. everything is so stuffy these days https://it.unt.edu/sites/default/files/benchmarks-09-1994.pdf
2020-06-03T07:36:47 < Thorn> thread https://twitter.com/GeePawHill/status/1256342997643526151
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2020-06-03T08:01:14 < englishman> good read
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2020-06-03T08:27:03 < dongs> why couldnt that pretentious cunt just post that shit on medium.com or something
2020-06-03T08:27:10 < dongs> so i dont have to scroll through 20 pages of twatter ads
2020-06-03T08:27:18 < dongs> i aint got time to read through all that bullshit
2020-06-03T08:27:22 < dongs> fucking faggots
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2020-06-03T08:43:03 < Cracki> get an aids blocker
2020-06-03T08:43:15 < Cracki> "ublock origin" is what the cool kids use these days
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2020-06-03T11:07:20 < ColdKeyboard> Does anyone know what the hell "COM signal deselected voltage level." means for these SSD1306 based OLEDs?
2020-06-03T11:08:00 < ColdKeyboard> Config register allows you to set COM signal deselct voltage level from 0.6VCC to 0.8VCC but what is that? What does it do?
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2020-06-03T11:25:17 < jadew`> ffs...
2020-06-03T11:25:37 < jadew`> I called the Romanian customs on the phone number listed on their website
2020-06-03T11:25:49 < jadew`> some guy answers and says "I'm not working at the customs anymore"
2020-06-03T11:26:00 < jadew`> WTF?
2020-06-03T11:28:20 < jadew`> I'm trying to figure out on what basis they want to tax me again for products sent as replacements for broken products that I originally received
2020-06-03T11:28:52 < jpa-> ColdKeyboard: it means the voltage it puts on COM lines of the led rows when they are not selected
2020-06-03T11:28:54 < jadew`> apparently, if you don't send the old shit back, you have to import it all over again, like this is some kind of situation they haven't thought about
2020-06-03T11:29:07 < jpa-> ColdKeyboard: you should just set it to what the display manufacturer specs or sets in their example code
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2020-06-03T11:50:03 < benishor> ohai, what's the unit of SAI_HandleTypeDef.XferSize and SAI_HandleTypeDef.XferCount?
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2020-06-03T11:52:17 < zyp> jadew`, sounds correct
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2020-06-03T11:53:45 < zyp> jadew`, usually with broken stuff, the replacement is tax processed like usual, but you can get the tax you paid on the original product refunded, which would then offset it
2020-06-03T11:54:53 < jadew`> well, they didn't mention that
2020-06-03T11:55:34 < jadew`> and I can't really pay the taxes anyway, because I can't justify this in accounting (paying tax twice on the same invoice)
2020-06-03T11:56:03 < zyp> of course you can, you have separate tax invoices
2020-06-03T11:56:06 < jadew`> and even if the supplier gave me a new invoice, it would be even worse, because I can't introduce an invoice into accounting, for something I didn't pay for
2020-06-03T11:56:30 < zyp> sure you can
2020-06-03T11:56:41 < jadew`> I could go to jail for that
2020-06-03T11:56:59 < jadew`> so that's not an option
2020-06-03T11:57:07 < jadew`> you can't have fake invoices
2020-06-03T11:57:17 < jadew`> regardless if it's for money paid or received
2020-06-03T11:57:26 < zyp> I'm not talking about fake invoices
2020-06-03T11:57:43 < jadew`> well, if the supplier will make a new invoice - what values will he put there? 0?
2020-06-03T11:58:14 < jadew`> if yes, the customs will want the shipping price to be on the invoice anyway, which then would have had to be paid by me (and I did, but on the previous invoice)
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2020-06-03T11:59:18 < zyp> well, every time I return a dead hard drive or whatever and get a free replacement, it comes with an invoice with a total of 0, so yes, that is possible
2020-06-03T11:59:33 < jadew`> yeah, but they want to charge me for shipping then
2020-06-03T11:59:35 < jadew`> (tax)
2020-06-03T11:59:43 < jadew`> and those taxes are already paid
2020-06-03T12:01:12 < jadew`> the real invoice is the previous one, and it's already paid for and in order
2020-06-03T12:01:43 < jadew`> the problem is that the state wants money they're not entitled to (tax on shipping)
2020-06-03T12:02:02 < jadew`> in fact, they suggested tax on everything, but let's say they'll accept the 0 value
2020-06-03T12:02:52 < jadew`> anyway, I asked for justification and reasoning, exactly because I can't make this fly in accounting
2020-06-03T12:03:06 < jadew`> I'm curious if they'll find a way to still make me pay extra
2020-06-03T12:05:06 < zyp> of course you can make the accounting work
2020-06-03T12:05:18 < zyp> accounting is supposed to reflect reality, not the other way around
2020-06-03T12:05:36 < zyp> if the reality is that you have to pay tax twice then that's what you'll have to fill into accounting as well
2020-06-03T12:05:40 < jadew`> yes, and paying tax on money that didn't leave my bank account, is not reality
2020-06-03T12:05:56 < zyp> sure it is
2020-06-03T12:05:57 < jadew`> right, well, I don't think I should pay tax twice
2020-06-03T12:06:19 < jadew`> it's absurd
2020-06-03T12:06:42 < jadew`> they're not taxing products anyway, they're taxing money
2020-06-03T12:06:57 < jadew`> and the money that left was already taxed
2020-06-03T12:07:24 < zyp> if you buy and send me a gift that's more expensive than the 1000 NOK gift exempt then I have to pay tax on it despite not having paid for it
2020-06-03T12:07:47 < zyp> if you're a company and send my company a freebie then I have to pay tax on it
2020-06-03T12:07:52 < jadew`> zyp, sure, but in this case I did pay for it
2020-06-03T12:08:16 < jadew`> I paid for something, and I'm getting that something
2020-06-03T12:08:28 < jadew`> it just happened that it took two shipments for that something to get here
2020-06-03T12:08:33 < zyp> so the situation exists where my company may have to pay tax on something that my company didn't pay for
2020-06-03T12:08:46 < zyp> which means I'll have to put the tax payment into accounting
2020-06-03T12:08:47 < jadew`> yeah, I'm aware of that, but this is different
2020-06-03T12:08:56 < zyp> no, it's not different
2020-06-03T12:09:13 < jadew`> I didn't get my products the first time
2020-06-03T12:09:20 < zyp> you're mixing up tax liability with accounting
2020-06-03T12:09:21 < jadew`> and I paid tax for the products
2020-06-03T12:09:37 < jadew`> let's leave accounting aside for a little
2020-06-03T12:09:42 < zyp> yes
2020-06-03T12:09:43 < jadew`> I paid a company for a product
2020-06-03T12:09:59 < jadew`> that product could come in 100 shipments
2020-06-03T12:10:21 < jadew`> and it might require 99 samples or tries to get it right
2020-06-03T12:10:27 < jadew`> this is exactly what happened here
2020-06-03T12:10:44 < jadew`> the factory sent me something, wasn't up to spec, they sent again
2020-06-03T12:10:47 < jadew`> it's the same purchase
2020-06-03T12:10:56 < jadew`> and I already paid for the whole thing
2020-06-03T12:11:02 < jadew`> (taxes too)
2020-06-03T12:11:18 < jadew`> as shown by the invoice I got and the taxes I paid, that were calculated based on that invoice
2020-06-03T12:11:33 < jadew`> anything else is robbery
2020-06-03T12:12:21 < zyp> well, let's say I order something for $300, and it arrives in two shipments,
2020-06-03T12:12:50 < zyp> each of those shipments should then have a declared value of like $75 and $225, and I pay tax on each of those
2020-06-03T12:12:59 < zyp> which then makes up the correct total
2020-06-03T12:13:35 < jadew`> that is a different situation
2020-06-03T12:13:41 < jadew`> in this case, it didn't happen like that
2020-06-03T12:13:52 < jadew`> but it's exactly the scenario I described
2020-06-03T12:13:54 < zyp> remember that import tax is based on the declared value, and the declared value is supposed to be the actual value, which in this case is not the total you paid
2020-06-03T12:14:28 < jadew`> what do you mean?
2020-06-03T12:15:17 < zyp> we are talking about import taxes that your customs agency collects when a shipment arrives, right?
2020-06-03T12:15:32 < jadew`> yeah
2020-06-03T12:16:24 < zyp> customs agency doesn't give a fuck how many shipments you have or who paid for it or whatever, they look at the declared value of that shipment and calculate taxes based on that
2020-06-03T12:17:20 < jadew`> zyp, it's supposed to function based on how commerce happens
2020-06-03T12:17:26 < jadew`> this situation of mine is not something out of the ordinary
2020-06-03T12:18:03 < jadew`> if they don't have some reglementation for this scenario, then a lot of people are not doing their jobs
2020-06-03T12:18:11 < zyp> if you are getting samples then the samples should probably have a much lower declared value than what you actually paid, since you also paid for NRE that gets amortized over multiple samples
2020-06-03T12:18:27 < jadew`> I didn't get samples tho, I got a broken product
2020-06-03T12:18:42 < zyp> then that's different, that's like I said before
2020-06-03T12:18:44 < jadew`> so the supplier sent me replacements in the same money
2020-06-03T12:18:52 < jadew`> now I need to know how to solve this without paying extra
2020-06-03T12:18:57 < zyp> if you get a broken product then you can get the paid taxes refunded
2020-06-03T12:18:57 < jadew`> because I shouldn't pay extra
2020-06-03T12:19:19 < jadew`> zyp, if that's what is going to happen, then that's fine
2020-06-03T12:19:54 < zyp> well, I don't know .ro customs laws, but my understanding is that that's how it works here
2020-06-03T12:20:47 < jadew`> I don't really care about the amount I have to pay, and I'm sure nobody would notice or care, if I paid more into the budget
2020-06-03T12:21:00 < jadew`> but it's a matter of principle and I'm not in a rush anyway :P
2020-06-03T12:21:02 < zyp> accounting wise it should look like this; you've got four entries: 1: original purchase payment, 2: first tax payment, 3: tax refund, 4: second tax payment
2020-06-03T12:21:06 < jadew`> so I want to see how this plays out
2020-06-03T12:21:27 < zyp> 2 and 3 should even out to zero or so, unless there are any non-refundable fees
2020-06-03T12:21:40 < jadew`> right, that would work
2020-06-03T12:22:04 < jadew`> but then.. why would they make me pay for this shit again, if they'll refund it anyway
2020-06-03T12:22:12 < zyp> transporter might charge a fee for customs processing and they are generally not refunded, so you might incur extra cost
2020-06-03T12:22:40 < jadew`> they don't
2020-06-03T12:22:44 < jadew`> or at least they shouldn't
2020-06-03T12:22:48 < jadew`> we'll see
2020-06-03T12:22:49 < zyp> good
2020-06-03T12:22:57 < zyp> in my case it varies
2020-06-03T12:23:02 < jadew`> either way, I'm curious to see what their resolution is
2020-06-03T12:23:26 < jadew`> in here other than DHL and the regular post nobody charges extra fees for that
2020-06-03T12:23:33 < jadew`> and with DHL there's a way out of it
2020-06-03T12:23:58 < jadew`> regular post however, is a communist relic
2020-06-03T12:24:08 < jadew`> they charge $30 extra for companies
2020-06-03T12:24:14 < zyp> I think it depends on the incoterms
2020-06-03T12:25:14 < zyp> I believe e.g. digikey and mouser sends with incoterms DDP, which results in UPS sending me an invoice for only the VAT value itself
2020-06-03T12:25:15 < karlp> nice meta brrrrr maths meme brrrrrraindamage :)
2020-06-03T12:25:33 < zyp> but other shit I get with UPS they sometimes wants a handling fee for
2020-06-03T12:25:50 < zyp> same with other transporters
2020-06-03T12:25:50 < jadew`> zyp, interesting
2020-06-03T12:25:55 < jadew`> that hasn't happened here yet
2020-06-03T12:26:53 < zyp> norway is currently in the process of implementing a «VOEC» system where the seller collects the VAT directly, leaving the transporter out of it
2020-06-03T12:27:54 < zyp> they're introducing it along with a removal of the VAT exempt for low value shipments
2020-06-03T12:28:26 < zyp> so on one hand I now will have to pay like 25 NOK on a 100 NOK aliexpress purchase
2020-06-03T12:29:03 < zyp> but on the other hand, I won't have to pay the 150 NOK handling fee in addition to the 125 NOK VAT on a 500 NOK purchase that I had to before
2020-06-03T12:29:09 < zyp> once the system is fully implemented
2020-06-03T12:30:58 < zyp> it'd sort out your problem too, if you paid VAT directly to the seller then the customs wouldn't have a chance to fuck it up by double charging you on arrival
2020-06-03T12:32:31 < jadew`> right, that would be great
2020-06-03T12:33:32 < jadew`> I just got a reply, I have to pay extra because for the exemption the products would have to leave back and some documents would be generated
2020-06-03T12:34:27 < jadew`> I asked how to proceed further, considering the contents of this package is not what it's on the old invoice and if I ask for another invoice with 0 value + shipping, then the shipping value will represent a transfer of money that never happened
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2020-06-03T12:47:00 < zyp> why not 0 shipping?
2020-06-03T12:47:15 < zyp> the invoices I get for replacement hard drives has 0 total and 0 shipping
2020-06-03T12:47:44 < jadew`> zyp, because they're fucking thieves (the customs)
2020-06-03T12:47:59 < jadew`> if the shipping is 0, they'll come up with a random number and tax you on that
2020-06-03T12:48:10 < zyp> haha
2020-06-03T12:48:21 < zyp> DHL used to do that here, fucking bullshit
2020-06-03T12:48:33 < jadew`> it's state policy here
2020-06-03T12:48:56 < zyp> awesome
2020-06-03T12:49:28 < jadew`> in fact, if this wasn't a thing, the whole situation wouldn't be a problem at all
2020-06-03T12:49:53 < jadew`> I could have an invoice with 0 value, describe why that is, and it would be fine
2020-06-03T12:58:36 < karlp> zyp: customs here refuses to accept 0 for shipping to, we'll get charged on assumed shipping.
2020-06-03T12:58:56 < karlp> 30 product + 10 shipping is cheaper than 39 + free shipping.
2020-06-03T12:59:30 < karlp> ran into that with aisler
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2020-06-03T14:00:11 < Steffanx> Lol jadew and his love for DHL
2020-06-03T14:01:21 < lux> afaik anything will be taxed anyway starting 2021
2020-06-03T14:01:48 < lux> usually here in austria most stuff shipped with snailmail slips through customs
2020-06-03T14:53:29 < jadew`> Steffanx, this time it's fedex :P
2020-06-03T14:53:51 < jadew`> I'm getting my money's worth tho
2020-06-03T14:54:33 < jadew`> I just submitted a quiz to the person dealing with this
2020-06-03T14:54:55 < jadew`> but mainly because they're too cryptic in their replies, so I'm trying to make sense of wth they need me to do next
2020-06-03T14:55:18 < jadew`> part of the clearance documentation is also the proof of payment, that has to match what it says on the invoice
2020-06-03T14:55:35 < jadew`> and they're forcing me to have a non zero invoice, which creates a bit of a paradox
2020-06-03T14:56:06 < jadew`> because while I can ask for a non zero invoice from the supplier, I can't produce a bank statement for money I didn't pay
2020-06-03T14:56:34 < jadew`> again, this whole problem exists because the state wants money they're not entitled to
2020-06-03T14:56:41 < jadew`> which obviously creates stupid problems
2020-06-03T14:57:43 < jadew`> they're this | | close to asking me to send the supplier more money so the whole thing makes sense to them
2020-06-03T14:58:05 < jadew`> fucking retarded bureaucrats
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2020-06-03T15:19:45 < GenTooMan> that's why the word "taxing" infers fatigue tiresome wearisome and other extremely bothersome behaviour. Also taxes are necessary but from what I've seen they've become world wide abusive. Unless of course everyone wants to be a disaster like Venezuela
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2020-06-03T15:31:45 < benishor> my worst experiences are related to dhl
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2020-06-03T15:39:02 < GenTooMan> hmm I've not dealt with them that much honestly.
2020-06-03T15:46:40 < Steffanx> Ive had no real bad experiences with anyone. Perhaps because is stopped caring too much :P
2020-06-03T15:46:55 < Steffanx> is = i
2020-06-03T15:53:32 < zyp> hmm
2020-06-03T15:53:49 < zyp> where's the best place to buy ebike batteries nowadays?
2020-06-03T15:56:18 < Mangy_Dog> arent they all just 18650s?
2020-06-03T15:56:25 < Mangy_Dog> packaged up
2020-06-03T15:57:02 < zyp> yes, but I don't really want to have to deal with spot welding my own pack
2020-06-03T15:57:09 < Mangy_Dog> also by that i mean... Wouldnt it be cheaper to just buy a bunch of cells and a couple of load ballencing bits of kit and make your own batter
2020-06-03T15:57:13 < Mangy_Dog> hmm
2020-06-03T15:57:54 < jadew`> do you have a spot welder?
2020-06-03T15:58:08 < Mangy_Dog> also while not perfectly idea... isnt it possible to spot solder?
2020-06-03T15:58:15 < zyp> the thing is that my current pack is starting to wear out
2020-06-03T15:58:24 < Mangy_Dog> ideal
2020-06-03T15:58:44 < zyp> went for a short ride today, battery level started dropping quicker than it used to
2020-06-03T15:58:53 < Mangy_Dog> hmm
2020-06-03T15:58:57 < jadew`> maybe you're just heavier
2020-06-03T15:58:58 < Mangy_Dog> where in the world are you?
2020-06-03T15:59:00 < jadew`> because of the lockdown
2020-06-03T15:59:04 < zyp> so in theory what I could do is replace the cells in the pack I have
2020-06-03T15:59:43 < zyp> which is the route I might have to go unless I can find a new affordable pack
2020-06-03T15:59:51 < Mangy_Dog> nkon sell batteries with the nikle tabs already welded on
2020-06-03T16:00:00 < Mangy_Dog> you could buy them and then solder the tabs together
2020-06-03T16:00:08 < Mangy_Dog> thats safer than soldering direct on the battery
2020-06-03T16:00:15 < zyp> a replacement pack in the same form factor as I've got is $199 which is reasonable, but then they want another $215 for shipping which is not
2020-06-03T16:02:13 < jadew`> 0.6
2020-06-03T16:02:19 < jadew`> wrong window
2020-06-03T16:02:23 < jadew`> that's my password
2020-06-03T16:03:03 < zyp> hmm, I think my current pack is 10S5P with 2 Ah cells, the $199 one is 2.5 Ah cells
2020-06-03T16:03:22 < zyp> https://eu.nkon.nl/rechargeable/li-ion/18650-size/k-tech-inr18650p-2500mah.html <- 50 of these should be €70
2020-06-03T16:03:28 < Mangy_Dog> https://eu.nkon.nl/rechargeable/li-ion/18650-size/samsung-inr18650-32e-3100mah-6-4a.html
2020-06-03T16:03:30 < Mangy_Dog> ahh you found them
2020-06-03T16:03:42 < zyp> which actually makes a strong point for just replacing the cells :p
2020-06-03T16:03:50 < Mangy_Dog> nodnods
2020-06-03T16:04:08 < Mangy_Dog> you can go bigger than 2500 if you want htough
2020-06-03T16:04:33 < Thorn> T - 12 h 20 min https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y4xBFHjkUvw
2020-06-03T16:04:35 < zyp> yeah, gonna consider that later
2020-06-03T16:04:56 < Mangy_Dog> but like i say they have a tab welding service... and while it is an extra fee.... you can safely solder to tabs or tab to tab when your daisy chaining
2020-06-03T16:05:03 < zyp> hmm, apparently I have to use the non-EU page
2020-06-03T16:05:29 < Mangy_Dog> ive brought from nkon before... far as i can tell they are all legit
2020-06-03T16:05:43 < zyp> yeah, I've heard good stuff about nkon
2020-06-03T16:05:45 < Mangy_Dog> and while they do sell recycled batteries... they say so when you do
2020-06-03T16:05:49 < Mangy_Dog> when they do
2020-06-03T16:06:07 < zyp> okay, shipping is €60
2020-06-03T16:06:14 < zyp> so €130 vs $415
2020-06-03T16:06:23 < Mangy_Dog> i guess by weight and depends where to
2020-06-03T16:19:09 < Steffanx> Its a dutch company. Soo, it must be AMAZING
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2020-06-03T16:23:03 < Steffanx> Gooday thorn. Gooday bitmask 
2020-06-03T16:23:24 < Thorn> hi Steffanx 
2020-06-03T16:24:50 < bitmask> gooday mate
2020-06-03T16:25:37 < Mangy_Dog> Anyone here used a wavgat atmega328 clone chip before?
2020-06-03T16:28:45 < bitmask> hmm my boards arent fully etching, either I need to heat up the ferric chloride or I didn't fully develop the boards
2020-06-03T16:28:49 < bitmask> probably the latter
2020-06-03T16:29:06 < Mangy_Dog> or theres some grease
2020-06-03T16:29:24 < bitmask> shouldnt be
2020-06-03T16:29:55 < bitmask> soap + sandpaper then acetone, only touched with gloves
2020-06-03T16:31:15 < qyx> zyp: try to ask gwl.eu, afaik they should be able to make custom packs
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2020-06-03T16:32:41 < qyx> hm except their 18650s are out of stock
2020-06-03T16:42:23 < Laurenceb> are there bimetallic switches for frost protection?
2020-06-03T16:42:39  * Laurenceb cant find anything that triggers around 5C
2020-06-03T16:46:27 < zyp> https://bin.jvnv.net/file/2IAQg.jpg https://bin.jvnv.net/file/DcW30.jpg https://bin.jvnv.net/file/yxv01.jpg
2020-06-03T16:46:32 < zyp> took a peek inside the pack I've got
2020-06-03T16:47:01 < zyp> looks fairly easy to replace the cells if I just get a spot welder
2020-06-03T16:48:18 < karlp> talk to bitmask ;)
2020-06-03T16:48:23 < karlp> or was it upgrdman?
2020-06-03T16:48:29 < karlp> one of them bought one recently for this
2020-06-03T16:48:46 < bitmask> bought one what
2020-06-03T16:48:52 < bitmask> oh spot welder
2020-06-03T16:49:11 < bitmask> i built one but it sucks, I need different cable I think
2020-06-03T16:49:15 < zyp> haha
2020-06-03T17:00:49 < qyx> so cap-coupling CAN requires LARGE caps
2020-06-03T17:01:11 < qyx> 1u is still not enough even for 1M baud
2020-06-03T17:01:32 < qyx> with 390R lowered termination resistor, 1u is enough for 1M
2020-06-03T17:01:58 < qyx> I would need at least 47u/100u for that to work reliably
2020-06-03T17:02:07 < zyp> yeah, CAN is not really designed for cap coupling
2020-06-03T17:02:25 < qyx> and 100u cap for 60V is simply large
2020-06-03T17:13:34 < qyx> so what to do, a simple OOK over a single line/cap?
2020-06-03T17:14:41 < qyx> I could generate eg. a 125kHz carrier on stm32, but how to detect it
2020-06-03T17:16:59 < qyx> maybe a TIM IC in counter mode, sample the counter value at 1.25kHz (my baudrate) and check if the counter incremented by ~100 counts
2020-06-03T17:20:38 < karlp> what's the actual goal?
2020-06-03T17:20:49 < qyx> per-cell battery monitor
2020-06-03T17:21:36 < qyx> no need for isolation, but too wide common mode voltage range
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2020-06-03T19:53:48 < boddax> who works with jamma's?
2020-06-03T19:58:42 < jadew`> keysight knows how to spam
2020-06-03T19:58:49 < jadew`> "Is your signal generator slowing down your testing?"
2020-06-03T19:58:52 < jadew`> yes, yes it does.
2020-06-03T20:01:16 < qyx> remove the inductor
2020-06-03T20:01:41 < jadew`> heh
2020-06-03T20:01:44 < boddax> power supply inductor?
2020-06-03T20:03:45 < boddax> jadew time to replace your instruments with new 5G tools
2020-06-03T20:04:17 < jadew`> I don't have money for 5G tools :(
2020-06-03T20:04:46 < jadew`> I think that's the main reason for the switch to 5G, they want to keep the losers out
2020-06-03T20:06:30 < boddax> exactly thats why i switch to jamma repairs :=)
2020-06-03T20:07:46 < jadew`> first time I hear about JAMMA
2020-06-03T20:08:16 < jadew`> is that for full size arcade games?
2020-06-03T20:08:50 < boddax> yes '80 arcade cabinets
2020-06-03T20:09:12 < jadew`> neat, they're not very popular here
2020-06-03T20:09:40 < jadew`> I mean, you can still find them at the mall, but that's about it
2020-06-03T20:10:42 < boddax> dongs kong  , gallaga etc..
2020-06-03T20:11:11 < jadew`> I loved golden axe when I was a kid
2020-06-03T20:11:18 < jadew`> because of the female character
2020-06-03T20:11:18 < boddax> some people like to have at home
2020-06-03T20:11:45 < boddax> mostly based on Z80 cpu or 68k motorrolla
2020-06-03T20:25:07 < jadew`> thingiverse is so screwed up
2020-06-03T20:25:14 < jadew`> can't believe it's been like that for so long
2020-06-03T20:25:21 < jadew`> has it been bought or did they abandon it?
2020-06-03T20:26:41 < PaulFertser> I found a thread where they claim they had to rewrite plenty of stuff to make it manageable (get rid of old spaghetti) and that they're working and and comitted to user experience etc etc
2020-06-03T20:27:13 < jadew`> it's taking them longer than I expected
2020-06-03T20:27:33 < friendofafriend> Should check out all those neat -- whaddyacallems -- "superguns"?
2020-06-03T20:27:35 < PaulFertser> They kinda fixed the search at least :)
2020-06-03T20:27:40 < jadew`> that website is a week worth of work
2020-06-03T20:27:41 < friendofafriend> If you're into JAMMA, that is.
2020-06-03T20:27:52 < jadew`> maybe a month for regular peeps
2020-06-03T20:29:31 < jadew`> also, what kind of moron deploys the update when it's in such a bad state?
2020-06-03T20:29:47 < jadew`> are they working directly on the server?
2020-06-03T20:30:20 < qyx> speaking of thingverse
2020-06-03T20:30:30 < qyx> englishman: is ttn back up?
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2020-06-03T20:35:55 < Steffanx> Was it down qyx?
2020-06-03T20:37:24 < qyx> idk, he said
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2020-06-03T20:56:23 < friendofafriend> When is Thingiverse *not* down?
2020-06-03T20:58:17 < bitmask> is 10-12k RPM enough to drill pcb holes?
2020-06-03T20:58:58 < jadew`> that sounds like not enough abrasive dust will be launched into the air
2020-06-03T20:59:13 < jadew`> go higher!
2020-06-03T20:59:29 < bitmask> how much higher, 24?
2020-06-03T20:59:44 < bitmask> 36?
2020-06-03T20:59:48 < bitmask> gets expensive quick
2020-06-03T21:00:00 < jadew`> for precision holes
2020-06-03T21:00:27 < jadew`> at that speed you probably run into the limits of your stepper motors, not being able to move fast enough between holes
2020-06-03T21:01:05 < bitmask> im just doing a drill press
2020-06-03T21:01:10 < bitmask> (probably)
2020-06-03T21:01:49 < bitmask> but why would moving between holes be an issue at all? you just mean what the bottleneck is?
2020-06-03T21:01:52 < jadew`> you'll probably want the slowest setting
2020-06-03T21:02:03 < BrainDamage> a simple vacuum cleaner will fix the dust problem
2020-06-03T21:02:06 < bitmask> what? you just said higher
2020-06-03T21:02:07 < zyp> bitmask, does this look reasonable? https://www.aliexpress.com/item/32894475701.html
2020-06-03T21:02:14 < jadew`> bitmask, I was joking
2020-06-03T21:02:24 < zyp> $120 shipped, cheapest I can find that looks kinda okay
2020-06-03T21:02:27 < jadew`> you can drill through PCBs with a manual drill
2020-06-03T21:02:40 < jadew`> it's really soft and easy to penetrate
2020-06-03T21:02:47 < bitmask> zyp, I dont really know, i never looked into real machines
2020-06-03T21:03:10 < bitmask> its glass infused epoxy, its hell on bits
2020-06-03T21:03:26 < BrainDamage> carbide tips don't get chewed
2020-06-03T21:03:33 < BrainDamage> but they snap really easily
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2020-06-03T21:03:37 < bitmask> yes
2020-06-03T21:03:49 < jadew`> if you use a drill press they'll last longer
2020-06-03T21:04:00 < bitmask> ive heard you need high speed for pcb though, thats why I wasnt sure 12k was enough
2020-06-03T21:04:12 < jadew`> depends...
2020-06-03T21:04:25 < BrainDamage> I've never used high speed
2020-06-03T21:04:26 < jadew`> for home use, I would drill at the lowest speed possible
2020-06-03T21:05:24 < bitmask> I was thinking of getting a decent wattage incase I want to build a pcb cnc, so I'm looking at a 500w brushless
2020-06-03T21:05:46 < bitmask> its chinese so im sure 500w isnt even close to the output
2020-06-03T21:06:05 < jadew`> dude...
2020-06-03T21:06:12 < jadew`> that's way too much
2020-06-03T21:06:24 < jadew`> for PCBs that is
2020-06-03T21:06:27 < bitmask> for a pcb mill?
2020-06-03T21:06:38 < jadew`> ah, you want to mill them
2020-06-03T21:06:45 < jadew`> I don't know what mills you need there
2020-06-03T21:06:48 < bitmask> bitmask:	I was thinking of getting a decent wattage incase I want to build a pcb cnc, so I'm looking at a 500w brushless
2020-06-03T21:06:50 < jadew`> *speeds
2020-06-03T21:07:09 < jadew`> 500w still sounds like too much just for this
2020-06-03T21:07:25 < bitmask> well I dont think you can have too much torque?
2020-06-03T21:07:43 < jadew`> yeah, but the bigger it is, the sturdier the machine has to be
2020-06-03T21:07:57 < jadew`> more $$$
2020-06-03T21:08:08 < BrainDamage> brushless motors are stupidly powerful for their size
2020-06-03T21:08:25 < BrainDamage> I have a 500W motor that's barely bigger than my thumb
2020-06-03T21:08:54 < jadew`> when you place it horizontally?
2020-06-03T21:09:10 < jadew`> (the thumb)
2020-06-03T21:09:23 < BrainDamage> in both length and thickness
2020-06-03T21:09:23 < bitmask> oh shit this is a lot bigger than I thought it was
2020-06-03T21:09:36 < bitmask> 55mm diameter, 138mm length
2020-06-03T21:09:51 < jadew`> 55mm diameter is not a lot
2020-06-03T21:09:58 < bitmask> the length is though
2020-06-03T21:10:00 < jadew`> it's dick size
2020-06-03T21:10:25 < bitmask> actually I dunno if its that much of a problem
2020-06-03T21:10:43 < bitmask> since I was originally gonna use a dremel which is bigger than that
2020-06-03T21:11:26 < jadew`> oh, it's not, it's thumb size
2020-06-03T21:11:28 < jadew`> wth...
2020-06-03T21:11:35 < bitmask> what?
2020-06-03T21:11:40 < bitmask> are you thinking circumference?
2020-06-03T21:11:46 < jadew`> oh, right, I was
2020-06-03T21:11:57 < bitmask> who measures things in circumference :P
2020-06-03T21:12:08 < jadew`> I was thinking about dicks lol
2020-06-03T21:12:14 < bitmask> fag
2020-06-03T21:12:49 < jadew`> I'm tired, haven't slept well in a week or so
2020-06-03T21:12:53 < BrainDamage> https://hobbyking.com/en_us/power-systems/electric-motors/brushless-motors.html#q=&idx=hbk_live_magento_en_us_products&dFR[warehouses][0]=UK&dFR[warehouses][1]=Global&dFR[warehouses][2]=EU&dFR[warehouses_stock_data][0]=UK|1&dFR[warehouses_stock_data][1]=UK|2&dFR[warehouses_stock_data][2]=UK|3&dFR[warehouses_stock_data][3]=Global|1&dFR[warehouses_stock_data][4]=Global|2&dFR[warehouses_stock_data][5]=Global|3&dFR[warehouses_stock_data][6]=
2020-06-03T21:12:53 < BrainDamage> EU|1&dFR[warehouses_stock_data][7]=EU|2&dFR[warehouses_stock_data][8]=EU|3&hFR[categories.level0][0]=Power%20Systems%20%2F%2F%2F%20Electric%20Motors%20%2F%2F%2F%20Brushless%20Motors&nR[power_w][%3C%3D][0]=1000&nR[power_w][%3E%3D][0]=350&is_v=1
2020-06-03T21:13:08 < Ultrasauce> that is an interesting url
2020-06-03T21:13:28 < BrainDamage> it contains the search params
2020-06-03T21:13:34 < BrainDamage> even if it's stupidly redundant
2020-06-03T21:13:43 < jadew`> session ID and card details prepopulated
2020-06-03T21:14:02 < jpa-> i had to dig up a ruler to figure out how thick jadew's 55mm dick really is
2020-06-03T21:14:09 < jadew`> haha
2020-06-03T21:14:10 < Ultrasauce> chode motor
2020-06-03T21:14:16 < jadew`> jpa-, I did that too
2020-06-03T21:14:22 < jadew`> that's how I realized how wrong I was :P
2020-06-03T21:14:26 < Ultrasauce> no longer going to use the term outrunner
2020-06-03T21:16:14 < bitmask> its $137 (including DHL shipping) for a 500w brushless spindle with standard driver, cast alu mount, 600w psu, ER11 Collet chuck with 3 sizes and a RPM display
2020-06-03T21:17:17 < bitmask> seems worth it to me
2020-06-03T21:17:23 < bitmask> if I decide to go 500w
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2020-06-03T21:19:22 < bitmask> I dont know how the runout is on drone motors, that would be the cause of many broken bits
2020-06-03T21:20:00 < jpa-> it would depend totally on how you mount the chuck
2020-06-03T21:20:01 < jadew`> that and play in the vertical axis
2020-06-03T21:20:24 < jadew`> (of the press, or whatever you're using)
2020-06-03T21:20:37 < bitmask> well yea I know but im just comparing motor types right now
2020-06-03T21:26:30 < englishman> qyx: it was only down like an hour
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2020-06-03T22:01:05 < englishman> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5kVvFZF_a0Y
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2020-06-03T22:09:46 < dirty_d> are any of you guys using clang for stm32?
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2020-06-03T22:14:03 < specing> no
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2020-06-03T22:25:14 < qyx> no
2020-06-03T22:29:40 < Steffanx> No
2020-06-03T22:33:36 < dirty_d> I got it working
2020-06-03T22:35:52 < specing> dirty_d: now you can program stm32s in .... what's clang good for, anyway?
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2020-06-03T22:38:29 < Thorn> dirty_d iirc segger studio comes with clang if you really want it
2020-06-03T22:38:53 < dirty_d> specing, its c/c++
2020-06-03T22:39:38 < dirty_d> the version of clang that my distro has already supports compiling for arm
2020-06-03T22:39:49 < dirty_d> but I had to use gcc's libraries
2020-06-03T22:41:06 < strata> seeeeeeeggggggerrrrrrrrrr
2020-06-03T22:41:41 < strata> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qMtIGUXKxH4
2020-06-03T22:42:25 < specing> dirty_d: what new does clang bring to the table?
2020-06-03T22:42:38 < specing> can't even do Ada
2020-06-03T22:42:59 < dirty_d> I don't have a good reason
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2020-06-03T22:54:48 < qyx> I soldered F042 in place of G031
2020-06-03T22:54:52 < qyx> it didn't work.
2020-06-03T22:54:58 < zyp> heh
2020-06-03T22:55:05 < qyx> totally different footprint
2020-06-03T22:55:22 < zyp> not a big surprise
2020-06-03T22:55:37 < qyx> I was quite surprised I used G031
2020-06-03T22:55:51 < qyx> I automatically picked a F042 from a box.
2020-06-03T23:01:45 < strata> i thought the g031 was a soic8
2020-06-03T23:01:51 < strata> oh w8 i guess it comes in other footprints too
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2020-06-03T23:30:08 < zyp> hmm
2020-06-03T23:30:29 < zyp> https://ru.nkon.nl/samsung-inr18650-29e-2900mah-e6-3782.html <- this seems to be the best bang for the buck
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2020-06-03T23:31:33 < zyp> https://ru.nkon.nl/k-tech-inr18650p-2500mah.html <- these are cheaper, but when you factor in shipping the total is 131€ vs 144€
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2020-06-03T23:34:32 < Steffanx> why ru.?
2020-06-03T23:34:38 < zyp> non-EU
2020-06-03T23:50:05 < Steffanx> Hm
2020-06-03T23:58:18 < zyp> okay, ordered those, hope they are decent
--- Day changed Thu Jun 04 2020
2020-06-04T00:12:07 < englishman> Steffanx: Keil compiler v5 is clang
2020-06-04T00:14:59 < Steffanx> Who uses keil?
2020-06-04T00:15:13 < zyp> keilers
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2020-06-04T00:20:27 < Thorn> afaik the frontend is ripped out of an old version of clang, the backend is their old one (instead of llvm)
2020-06-04T00:21:17 < bitmask> https://i.imgur.com/31cuP5C.png?1
2020-06-04T00:21:22 < bitmask> not great but 1 or 2 of them are probably okay, not bad for my first try
2020-06-04T00:21:49 < aandrew> bitmask: nice
2020-06-04T00:22:46 < zyp> nice
2020-06-04T00:22:52 < zyp> which etchant did you use?
2020-06-04T00:23:42 < bitmask> ferric chloride, i might try switching to cupric chloride 
2020-06-04T00:24:20 < bitmask> my biggest problem was developing the dry film, its hard to tell when the unexposed parts are completely gone
2020-06-04T00:24:30 < bitmask> and took a lot of rubbing
2020-06-04T00:24:41 < bitmask> maybe i'll try heating it up
2020-06-04T00:24:57 < zyp> photoresist?
2020-06-04T00:25:01 < bitmask> yea
2020-06-04T00:25:33 < zyp> doesn't that wash right off with lye?
2020-06-04T00:25:55 < bitmask> it all washes off with lye, to remove just the undeveloped part you use sodium carbonate
2020-06-04T00:28:58 < zyp> hmm, I thought I used NaOH
2020-06-04T00:29:37 < bitmask> maybe a very very dilute solution would work.  1.5% took off the developed part at the end
2020-06-04T00:29:46 < zyp> probably around 10 years since last I etched a board myself though
2020-06-04T00:30:20 < zyp> but I'm pretty sure I used NaOH as developer and HCl+H2O2 as etchant
2020-06-04T00:30:42 < zyp> and then you pour it all together at the end and get salty water with some dissolved copper
2020-06-04T00:31:36 < bitmask> interesting, maybe I should get rid of this ferric chloride
2020-06-04T00:32:45 < zyp> I remember using ferric chloride in high school
2020-06-04T00:32:55 < zyp> HCl+H2O2 is a lot faster
2020-06-04T00:34:32 < bitmask> why is it not the standard, a lot of guides still talk about ferric chloride
2020-06-04T00:34:41 < zyp> dunno
2020-06-04T00:34:50 < zyp> how long did your stuff take to etch?
2020-06-04T00:35:17 < bitmask> 15-20 minutes
2020-06-04T00:35:21 < zyp> IIRC the stuff I did in high school took like 15 minutes or something, but that was old and probably fairly saturated shit
2020-06-04T00:35:24 < zyp> hah
2020-06-04T00:35:27 < zyp> okay
2020-06-04T00:35:39 < qyx> whoa, it should be in 5-10 mins
2020-06-04T00:35:52 < zyp> HCl+H2O2 takes maybe half a minute
2020-06-04T00:36:20 < zyp> you don't take your eyes off it while etching, you wanna pull it out right when it's done :p
2020-06-04T00:36:27 < bitmask> heh
2020-06-04T00:36:28 < qyx> zyp: those high capacity samsungs are not rated for high current
2020-06-04T00:36:47 < zyp> I've got 5P and only a 250W motor, should be plenty
2020-06-04T00:36:57 < qyx> oh ok then
2020-06-04T00:37:23 < zyp> I mean, the product page says 8.25A
2020-06-04T00:38:05 < zyp> 10S5P means 3.6V * 10 * 8.25A * 5, so 1485W
2020-06-04T00:38:29 < zyp> should be a safe enough margin :)
2020-06-04T00:38:57 < qyx> ~500Wh? so about 2 hours of full throttle?
2020-06-04T00:39:35 < zyp> sounds reasonable
2020-06-04T00:40:17 < zyp> my old pack is using 2000mAh cells, so 360 Wh
2020-06-04T00:40:24 < zyp> should be a nice improvement
2020-06-04T00:43:37 < qyx> https://i.imgur.com/5YsLMPq.png
2020-06-04T00:43:50 < qyx> I am curious if I manage to fit three AA on the board
2020-06-04T00:44:12 < qyx> they are 14mm dia, 3TE is ~15mm
2020-06-04T00:45:00 < zyp> the more work I do on fitting things onto my board, the more crazy I think you are for going with only 2U :p
2020-06-04T00:46:22 < zyp> and no, 14mm components won't fit between two 1.6mm thick boards at 15mm pitch
2020-06-04T00:46:39 < qyx> if there was more space on the boards I would fill them with many useless things
2020-06-04T00:46:54 < qyx> thats the catch
2020-06-04T00:47:05 < qyx> I need to use the 1.6mm space too
2020-06-04T00:48:18 < zyp> ah, make holes in the board?
2020-06-04T00:48:25 < qyx> yeah
2020-06-04T00:48:27 < zyp> yeah, that'll work if you get the height right
2020-06-04T00:48:55 < qyx> and use somethng like this https://i.imgur.com/NAzze5c.png
2020-06-04T00:49:58 < qyx> and in the next step efter the mechanical peculiarities are resolved
2020-06-04T00:50:32 < qyx> I need to choose a suitable buck-boost to be able to use alkaline and LiSOCl2
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2020-06-04T01:02:31 < qyx> I am not even able to find a AA battery model
2020-06-04T01:05:07 < specing> what are you looking for
2020-06-04T01:05:22 < qyx> AA battery step model
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2020-06-04T01:11:06 < Cracki> <cylinder h=50mm, r=14mm>
2020-06-04T01:11:28 < Cracki> grabcad has something
2020-06-04T01:11:53 < Cracki> ostensibly duracell, even textured. wants an account tho
2020-06-04T01:13:14 < Cracki> the butt and nipple have great detail https://grabcad.com/library/aa-duracell-battery
2020-06-04T01:14:33 < BrainDamage> bitmask: add citric acid to ferric chloride to make a edimburgh etch
2020-06-04T01:14:51 < bitmask> hmm i'll look into it
2020-06-04T01:15:38 < bitmask> heres my one winner, knife slipped, luckily it didnt matter
2020-06-04T01:15:39 < bitmask> https://i.imgur.com/wtu0z8l.png
2020-06-04T01:17:46 < Ultrasauce> i like my etches to have that tangy aftertaste
2020-06-04T01:19:10 < Ultrasauce> that soic is going to bridge a lot
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2020-06-04T01:19:28 < Ultrasauce> er tssop i guess it probably is
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2020-06-04T01:22:08 < bitmask> yea, i'm not really looking forward to populating it
2020-06-04T01:23:08 < Ultrasauce> pre plating with mg 421 or similar might help
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2020-06-04T01:25:58 < BrainDamage> back then I used a molten tin bath, coat the board with flux and quickly dip
2020-06-04T01:26:13 < BrainDamage> you can melt the tin on the stove in any metallic container
2020-06-04T01:28:12 < bitmask> I do have solder resist but ive never used it before and I havent made a spin coater yet :P
2020-06-04T01:28:28 < bitmask> not sure how well I could get it between those pads anyway
2020-06-04T01:32:10 < qyx> idk if such pcb is rigid enough https://i.imgur.com/rm1s0MY.png
2020-06-04T01:33:05 < Cracki> chewed on tooth pick for a paintbrush
2020-06-04T01:33:50 < Ultrasauce> qyx: whatsit
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2020-06-04T03:55:01 < Cracki> another starlink launch at 1:25 utc https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y4xBFHjkUvw
2020-06-04T03:55:10 < Cracki> (t-30)
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2020-06-04T04:01:33 < bitmask> is OSC_IN pin connected to the oscillator input or output in?
2020-06-04T04:01:42 < bitmask> pin*
2020-06-04T04:02:07 < bitmask> my guess is output
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2020-06-04T04:08:25 < Laurenceb> keeek the dyson car photos
2020-06-04T04:08:33 < Laurenceb> literally
2020-06-04T04:08:47 < Laurenceb> >what do you mean we cant 3d print a tempered glass windscreen
2020-06-04T04:10:11 < Laurenceb> over 6 gorillion miles per charge
2020-06-04T04:11:44 < Cracki> bitmask, bitmask my rm (0316) gives me a figure for hse/lse clock sources, which implies that an external clock goes into osc_in, while a resonator uses osc_in and _out in tandem
2020-06-04T04:11:48 < Laurenceb> the photos are made of fail
2020-06-04T04:16:31 < Cracki> it begins
2020-06-04T04:19:56 < englishman> the UK is so well known for its quality electrics and quality cars that it decided to make an electric car
2020-06-04T04:41:12 < bitmask> it aint pretty but got most of it on, just need to figure out how im gonna drill holes or just solder wires 
2020-06-04T04:41:16 < bitmask> https://i.imgur.com/fAzrjJB.jpg
2020-06-04T04:42:50 < bitmask> pic looks a lot worse
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2020-06-04T04:44:31 < Ultrasauce> lol i think you're supposed to do the drilling before assembly
2020-06-04T04:44:42 < bitmask> haha yea I know but I couldn't wait
2020-06-04T04:45:08 < Laurenceb> To be fair, dependent on context, sucking is not even frequently a poor outcome.
2020-06-04T04:45:09 < Laurenceb> If you'd like to suck less, there are steps you can take... try these for 30 days
2020-06-04T04:45:09 < Laurenceb> 1)sleep 8+ hrs
2020-06-04T04:45:09 < Laurenceb> 2)drink 2 litres of water per day
2020-06-04T04:45:09 < Laurenceb> 3)get sunlight daily
2020-06-04T04:45:09 < Laurenceb> 4)consume no sugar
2020-06-04T04:45:11 < Laurenceb> 5)read for an hour each day
2020-06-04T04:45:15 < Laurenceb> 6)workout 4x a week
2020-06-04T04:45:17 < Laurenceb> 7)Capture someone, cut their face off, and sew it onto yours
2020-06-04T04:45:19 < Laurenceb> 8)Meditate 15 minutes a day
2020-06-04T04:45:31 < Cracki> those are instructions for a potted plant
2020-06-04T04:54:05 < strata> Laurenceb: this is what i got after i did all that: https://imgur.com/a/E09fTCl
2020-06-04T05:04:41 < Ultrasauce> what is that substrate
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2020-06-04T06:31:22 < jadew`> looks like dog shit
2020-06-04T06:31:52 < jadew`> or human shit, in dog shit form
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2020-06-04T06:34:01 < Cracki> could be some foam stuff made from clay, who knows
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2020-06-04T06:34:31 < Cracki> "exclay"
2020-06-04T06:34:43 < Cracki> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Hydroton.jpg
2020-06-04T06:35:01 < Cracki> does look like shit tho
2020-06-04T06:37:15 < Cracki> provides oxygen to roots and stores water
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2020-06-04T06:39:03 < aandrew> I have a bunch of that shit
2020-06-04T06:39:45 < Cracki> seems to entirely replace soil. https://68.media.tumblr.com/05ecc0f95dc47e4867b5e52a540a5ab8/tumblr_ovralnbupb1woy8q4o1_540.jpg
2020-06-04T07:23:21 < jadew`> it doesn't look exactly the same like what that guy has in that picture
2020-06-04T07:23:48 < jadew`> if I look at those balls, I'm not confused
2020-06-04T07:27:38 < Cracki> different clay I'd say
2020-06-04T07:28:06 < Cracki> german "Hydroton" (ton = clay) is made by germans. germans make perfect spheres like borg.
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2020-06-04T07:28:31 < Cracki> muricans just make... scrambled eggs
2020-06-04T07:29:08 < jadew`> you can hide a turd in there and nobody would know
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2020-06-04T07:51:48 < Cracki> would improve plant growth
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2020-06-04T08:38:29 < jpa-> https://electronics.stackexchange.com/questions/503467/would-you-approve-this-soldering-job
2020-06-04T08:40:46 < Ultrasauce> this cant be for real
2020-06-04T08:42:40 < strata> yea that's a troll
2020-06-04T08:44:30 < strata> it looks like someone with soldering skill who intentionally made it that bad.
2020-06-04T08:44:54 < jpa-> a troll with a month of build-up, considering there is a legit seeming question from the same person involving same chip a month ago?
2020-06-04T08:44:56 < friendofafriend> What's wrong with it?
2020-06-04T08:45:50 < strata> i remember when i was 9 years old, i went straight to surface mount
2020-06-04T08:47:26 < strata> and i didn't know solder paste had to be heated. i spent a whole day "soldering" all the parts with paste and put scotch tape over them really really carefully so they wouldn't move while it was drying.
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2020-06-04T08:57:34 < Ultrasauce> process control is very important
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2020-06-04T10:45:07 < Cracki> 3-4 blobs on the ends of the legs, and half the other pads not even touched? wew
2020-06-04T10:46:40 < Cracki> his other question sounds like a troll too
2020-06-04T10:47:07 < con3> Cracki: who's this?
2020-06-04T10:47:13 < Cracki> no clue
2020-06-04T10:47:31 < Cracki> just looking at the stackexchange link
2020-06-04T10:47:43 < con3> ah i missed the link
2020-06-04T10:49:44 < Cracki> he calls the pins "touching". they're soldered together. "might" lead to "noise" is just lol
2020-06-04T10:50:07 < Cracki> if that's a legit class project, he must have failed physics class or they don't teach physics anymore
2020-06-04T10:50:11 < jadew`> such obvious trolling is not even funny
2020-06-04T10:50:45 < Cracki> also not sure what a"combinator" is in his other q. looks like a usb socket breakout board
2020-06-04T10:50:59 < jadew`> it combines shit
2020-06-04T10:51:16 < Cracki> his profile contains a motivational paragraph of nonsense
2020-06-04T10:51:46 < Cracki> oh shit it's real https://www.sparkfun.com/products/13878
2020-06-04T10:51:47 < jadew`> lol, yeah
2020-06-04T10:51:59 < jadew`> well, the board could be real
2020-06-04T10:52:00 < Cracki> spergfun
2020-06-04T10:52:10 < jadew`> but the profile is fake for sure
2020-06-04T10:52:23 < jadew`> nobody is this stupid
2020-06-04T10:52:44 < Cracki> oh people can be that stupid
2020-06-04T10:52:56 < Cracki> you forget double digit IQs exist
2020-06-04T10:53:25 < jadew`> and they take electronics courses? :P
2020-06-04T10:53:38 < Cracki> it says class project, maybe this is high school
2020-06-04T10:54:25 < jadew`> wtf... Romania has an average IQ of 94...
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2020-06-04T10:55:10 < jadew`> at least according to one site
2020-06-04T10:55:15 < jadew`> I remember that number being higher
2020-06-04T10:55:27 < jadew`> 94 is like... retarded
2020-06-04T10:56:20 < Cracki> the one answer to his strain gauge q says "You always need 4 strain gauge to measure weight of 1 object."
2020-06-04T10:56:24 < Cracki> wow. just wow.
2020-06-04T10:56:25 < jadew`> found another one, it says 90
2020-06-04T10:56:35 < Cracki> guesstimates
2020-06-04T10:56:43 < jadew`> based on what?
2020-06-04T10:56:50 < Cracki> high school diplomas or sth
2020-06-04T10:56:52 < Cracki> pisa tests
2020-06-04T10:57:15 < srk> 4 strain gauge? for measuring gravity from all sides?
2020-06-04T10:57:33 < Cracki> they calibrate those tests by taking lots of individuals, their test results and IQs, and fitting a curve
2020-06-04T10:57:40 < Cracki> yes, bullshit answer obv
2020-06-04T10:58:06 < Cracki> statement is wrong AND he didn't answer how the dude can measure two things at once (with a single hx711...)
2020-06-04T10:58:42 < Spirit532> You definitely only need one strain gauge to measure weight
2020-06-04T10:58:54 < Cracki> exactly
2020-06-04T10:58:57 < srk> maybe trying to point out the need for wheat-stone bridge?
2020-06-04T10:59:09 < Cracki> don't read too much into it
2020-06-04T10:59:14 < Cracki> just morons amongst themselves
2020-06-04T10:59:47 < Cracki> instead of wondering how to multiplex one hx711 to different bridges, he could just use two hx711
2020-06-04T11:00:12 < Cracki> these things have a weird wire protocol and no slave select, so he needs two more GPIOs but eh
2020-06-04T11:00:17 < srk> well isn't it designed to handle 4 inputs? :)
2020-06-04T11:00:29 < Spirit532> each load cell is a wheatstone bridge
2020-06-04T11:00:30 < Spirit532> lol
2020-06-04T11:00:33 < srk> http://blog.medien.ifi.lmu.de/swh/wp-content/uploads/sites/3/2018/09/HX711-6.jpg
2020-06-04T11:00:34 < srk> this
2020-06-04T11:00:39 < Cracki> oh right, hx711 has two inputs!
2020-06-04T11:00:42 < Cracki> meh
2020-06-04T11:01:01 < Cracki> so all he'd need is to find a library that can handle reading the hx711 right
2020-06-04T11:01:13 < srk> I'm using one for pt100 on reflow oven, quick / dirty adc.. :D
2020-06-04T11:02:20 < Cracki> srk, that looks wrong
2020-06-04T11:02:43 < srk> why, I found an arduino schematic, can't be wrong
2020-06-04T11:02:52 < Cracki> the E+, E- are supposed to supply voltage to the bridges and the A+- and B+- measure the centers
2020-06-04T11:03:04 < Cracki> domain lmu.de
2020-06-04T11:03:10 < srk> ah http://blog.medien.ifi.lmu.de/swh/2018/09/10/hx711-how-to-measure-incorrectly/
2020-06-04T11:03:11 < Cracki> that's a supposed university
2020-06-04T11:03:16 < Cracki> lol
2020-06-04T11:03:18 < Cracki> hahahahahah
2020-06-04T11:03:21 < Cracki> trolls
2020-06-04T11:03:56 < srk> well that should be the fixed one.. :D
2020-06-04T11:04:20 < Cracki> one could decipher that tardweeno grade diagram and see if they actually do something electrically sensible...
2020-06-04T11:04:34 < srk> haha
2020-06-04T11:05:02 < srk> Adluc had this working correctly for weight measurements, he might have schematics somewhere
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2020-06-04T11:05:34 < Cracki> ah, now I see what they're doing
2020-06-04T11:05:43 < srk> decipher this :D http://blog.medien.ifi.lmu.de/swh/wp-content/uploads/sites/3/2018/09/HX711-11.jpg
2020-06-04T11:06:24 < Cracki> I think this is what they're doing https://wiki.restarters.net/File:DoubleBridge.png
2020-06-04T11:06:36 < Cracki> yes, that's it
2020-06-04T11:06:47 < Cracki> superb obfuscation
2020-06-04T11:06:48 < srk> ah, nice
2020-06-04T11:07:31 < srk> lol
2020-06-04T11:07:46 < srk> could be worse
2020-06-04T11:08:58 < srk> musicz https://filabraz.bandcamp.com/album/mmxx-ep
2020-06-04T11:12:27 < Cracki> that one spergfun hx711 board doesn't seem to expose all the pins
2020-06-04T11:13:13 < Cracki> only A+-, not B+-
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2020-06-04T11:35:08 < Cracki> need an air rifle. some fucking raven has been derping every a.m. for a few days now
2020-06-04T11:36:09 < Cracki> it's not a ra! sound either, more like reee
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2020-06-04T11:52:09 < Adluc> Cracki: depends on the load cell you use, e.g. Zemic L6G states that platform you should have object is limited to 40x40cm or so
2020-06-04T11:53:07 < Cracki> he made an all-X statement, he didn't say there exist X.
2020-06-04T11:53:31 < Adluc> just saying, dont know whole context
2020-06-04T11:56:06 < Cracki> lol the #blackout hashtag was pushed by 4chan to make the terrorists shut up for a day
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2020-06-04T12:26:56 < jadew`> DHL said I'll get my boards today
2020-06-04T12:27:01 < jadew`> the ones I ordered in April
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2020-06-04T12:32:43 < benishor> didn't they send you a lot of paperwork to fill in?
2020-06-04T12:33:10 < jadew`> no, that was fedex, different package
2020-06-04T12:33:28 < benishor> I got a lot of paperwork from dhl, each and every fucking time
2020-06-04T12:33:37 < jadew`> I got the procedure down
2020-06-04T12:33:46 < jadew`> I spend less than a couple of minutes on that now
2020-06-04T12:33:53 < benishor> and they don't seem to take into account the ticks you put on "consider this option as selected until further notifications"
2020-06-04T12:34:24 < jadew`> heh, fedex asks me for that form every time, DHL doesn't
2020-06-04T12:34:30 < benishor> also them charging extra is ridiculous
2020-06-04T12:35:03 < benishor> we're so different. and yet we only live about 180km away
2020-06-04T12:35:13 < jadew`> they don't charge extra if you get an EORI number
2020-06-04T12:35:27 < benishor> I didn't go for EORI, there might be dragons there
2020-06-04T12:38:03 < jadew`> I need it for exports too
2020-06-04T12:38:11 < jadew`> there are no fees or anything associated with it
2020-06-04T12:38:32 < benishor> what are you exporting?
2020-06-04T12:38:42 < jadew`> the products that I'm making
2020-06-04T12:39:06 < benishor> oh, so you're making a living out of electronics. cool
2020-06-04T12:39:13 < benishor> got a link to your products?
2020-06-04T12:39:14 < jadew`> wouldn't call it that
2020-06-04T12:39:24 < jadew`> http://cojotech.com/
2020-06-04T12:39:34 < benishor> is that a shorthand for cojones tech?
2020-06-04T12:39:39 < benishor> or cojocaru?
2020-06-04T12:39:54 < jadew`> the later, yeah
2020-06-04T12:40:03 < jadew`> but I don't mind cojones either :P
2020-06-04T12:40:15 < benishor> heheh :) perty nice
2020-06-04T12:40:32 < benishor> how much are the taxes out of anything you sell?
2020-06-04T12:41:06 < jadew`> like what I have to pay for each sale?
2020-06-04T12:41:38 < jadew`> I don't know... I'm not VAT registered, so I pay VAT for what I buy
2020-06-04T12:41:47 < benishor> suppose you sell something for 100eur. I assume you need to pay taxes 
2020-06-04T12:41:53 < jadew`> then I get taxed every 3 months based on what I sell
2020-06-04T12:42:28 < benishor> the usual 16% + cas/cass I would assume
2020-06-04T12:42:37 < jadew`> yeah, I don't know the exact value, but it's around 3%, then if you want to get the money out of the company, you have to pay another 17%
2020-06-04T12:42:57 < jadew`> depends, currently I'm not taking money out of the company, because it's not generating enough
2020-06-04T12:43:18 < jadew`> so I just pay the 3% or so (the accountant tells me how much I have to pay after each quarter)
2020-06-04T12:43:37 < jadew`> and with the remaining I buy components, design prototypes, etc
2020-06-04T12:44:11 < benishor> so that's something like a side thing to your day job?
2020-06-04T12:44:30 < jadew`> sort of, I also do IT consulting
2020-06-04T12:44:36 < jadew`> but I would rather do electronics than that
2020-06-04T12:45:03 < jadew`> I quit my day job several years ago
2020-06-04T12:45:29 < benishor> I'm also a progammer by trade but would rather do electronics
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2020-06-04T12:46:11 < jadew`> I don't know how others are making money out of electronics, but to me it seems very difficult and it's probably because I'm missing something
2020-06-04T12:46:46 < jadew`> for one, development takes a lot because of various delays
2020-06-04T12:51:01 < jadew`> again, I think I'm targeting the wrong market, because I can't even justify the R&D cost
2020-06-04T12:51:51 < zyp> well, yeah, the market has to exist
2020-06-04T12:52:25 < jadew`> yeah
2020-06-04T12:52:56 < jadew`> I have a new product inside this DHL package, that's for a slightly different market
2020-06-04T12:53:05 < jadew`> I'm very curious how it will do
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2020-06-04T12:55:13 < zyp> the stuff I'm selling has probably recouped R&D costs many times over, but I'm not selling enough that I could make a living from it
2020-06-04T12:55:58 < jadew`> I have full months invested in those prescalers, maybe close to 1 year
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2020-06-04T12:56:24 < jadew`> I wanted to make one over a weekend, then I fell into the rabbit hole
2020-06-04T12:56:32 < zyp> yeah, my stuff is low complexity
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2020-06-04T12:56:47 < zyp> could probably count R&D time in afternoons, not months :p
2020-06-04T12:57:03 < Cracki> you're building things you find fun, rather than things that pay well
2020-06-04T12:57:08 < jadew`> heh, yeah, I need to switch to simpler things
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2020-06-04T12:57:34 < zyp> Cracki, well, yeah, that's what I did too
2020-06-04T12:57:40 < jadew`> similarly, I have this tracking generator project that I've been working on on and off for several years
2020-06-04T12:57:41 < Cracki> they can be simple or complicated, but you need customers to want it enough so they pay a lot more than "the cost of business"
2020-06-04T12:57:51 < zyp> I made something for fun, found out that other people were interested too so I started selling them
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2020-06-04T12:58:06 < jadew`> I was about to release it, but I figured out a way to make it better, so now I'm in the process of developing some experiments to test my ideas
2020-06-04T12:58:15 < Cracki> ye I'd rather make something fun than "be a whore" so to speak
2020-06-04T12:58:17 < jadew`> that's gonna take both $$$ and time
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2020-06-04T12:58:53 < jadew`> the for fun part is great, but it's a lot more fun when you're also getting paid for it :)
2020-06-04T12:59:05 < Cracki> there's probably a proper saying or two but... throw it on the lake, see if they bite
2020-06-04T12:59:15 < zyp> I'm taking the same approach with the fpga stuff I'm working on now, I'm making something fun for myself to try a bunch of different stuff, maybe I'm lucky and ends up with something there's a market for
2020-06-04T12:59:18 < jpa-> nowadays i seem to have so little time available that every project without deadline gets interrupted for months and then i lose motivation
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2020-06-04T12:59:36 < Cracki> your own tastes are those of a gourmet. customers can't tell the difference.
2020-06-04T12:59:39 < zyp> worst case I just end up with a bunch of new experience
2020-06-04T13:00:08 < jadew`> zyp, yeah, there's always that
2020-06-04T13:00:09 < Cracki> artists ("drawfags" in 4chan speak) always question themselves but the fans never even notice
2020-06-04T13:00:39 < jadew`> Cracki, heh, I noticed this aspect as well
2020-06-04T13:00:53 < jadew`> I've been obsessing over things that I'm not even specifying and people are not even aware of
2020-06-04T13:01:06 < zyp> but still, I think the ecp5+sodimm core of my current project is something that'd be fairly reusable if it works
2020-06-04T13:01:49 < zyp> just copypaste that, replace the other IO with whatever is needed for whatever the goal is
2020-06-04T13:02:02 < zyp> or use as is
2020-06-04T13:03:52 < jadew`> what bothers me the most is when I see carelessly put together projects that make it big
2020-06-04T13:04:09 < zyp> that's just jealousy
2020-06-04T13:04:14 < jadew`> it is, yes
2020-06-04T13:04:16 < Cracki> "minimum viable product"
2020-06-04T13:04:38 < jpa-> me it bothers more when i see good projects that lack just a bit of skill to make it good
2020-06-04T13:04:39 < Cracki> they stopped sinking effort into it at the point where it's selling like hotcakes
2020-06-04T13:04:51 < Cracki> because more effort doesn't translate into more profit
2020-06-04T13:05:02 < jpa-> like mechaduino is a good idea, the electronics is good, but the software has crappy control loops and the code is such a mess it's annoying to even try to fix
2020-06-04T13:05:07 < Cracki> when you're targeting the masses, expect tastes to be shit
2020-06-04T13:06:55 < Steffann> Hows your temp. sensor with UI jadew` ?  :P
2020-06-04T13:07:03 < jadew`> haha Steffann
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2020-06-04T13:23:53 < jadew`> benishor, you're tired of programming?
2020-06-04T13:25:35 < benishor> jadew`: not yet. it's been 27 years and I still love the little bugger
2020-06-04T13:25:48 < benishor> but recently my interest towards electronics peaked
2020-06-04T13:26:05 < benishor> so I decided to design and build my own sdr transceiver to my liking
2020-06-04T13:26:46 < jadew`> nice, how's that going?
2020-06-04T13:26:52 < benishor> arduino was my only previous experience in uC land so stm32 was quite a journey to get started with
2020-06-04T13:27:23 < benishor> the receiving part is almost complete. I still wrestle with the nasty effects of 41m broadcast band which is terrible in europe
2020-06-04T13:27:57 < benishor> and at night it overloads my preamp regardless of whether I set the vga gain to minimum or not
2020-06-04T13:28:20 < benishor> so I have to switch in some attenuation in front, which degrades the phase noise
2020-06-04T13:29:06 < benishor> I also got started with a discovery board (as per one kind ##stm32 soul recommendation) which definitely helped the start
2020-06-04T13:29:32 < benishor> but as I got deeper into the subject, I ran into things poorly done in BSP drivers and/or HAL
2020-06-04T13:29:41 < benishor> so it's a neverending journey
2020-06-04T13:30:05 < benishor> the last endeavour was to finally be able to use the whole 24 bit dynamic range specified by the wm8994 codec which is used in the stm32746 discovery board
2020-06-04T13:30:14 < benishor> emeb kindly helped with that 
2020-06-04T13:30:32 < jadew`> what's the bandwidth of your SDR?
2020-06-04T13:30:34 < benishor> the HAL drivers only support 16bit
2020-06-04T13:31:04 < benishor> I used 48KHz. Although the codec supports 96KHz as well, it only supports 96KHz for DAC and not ADC 
2020-06-04T13:31:12 < benishor> so it was pointless to go higher than 48KHz
2020-06-04T13:32:02 < benishor> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=E5um9sQ-cYM
2020-06-04T13:33:05 < jadew`> looks nice
2020-06-04T13:33:15 < benishor> still got some things to fix/improve, such as improving iq balance 
2020-06-04T13:34:41 < jadew`> you only care about the 40m band?
2020-06-04T13:35:01 < benishor> nah, it was the one that I used for testing
2020-06-04T13:35:18 < benishor> due to propagation and being close to those nasty AM broadcast stations
2020-06-04T13:35:23 < benishor> it supports all the HF bands
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2020-06-04T13:36:37 < benishor> TX will be interesting. I'll have to change the codec setup (again) to go with two parallel output streams
2020-06-04T13:37:03 < jadew`> what's your noise floor, have you measured it?
2020-06-04T13:37:44 < benishor> sensitivity is somewhere around -143dBm in lab conditions
2020-06-04T13:37:59 < benishor> unfortunately the HF bands noise floor is quite high
2020-06-04T13:42:38 < jadew`> I remember seeing a russian SDR a couple of years ago, that had an enclosure and all that
2020-06-04T13:42:52 < jadew`> people seemed to be very excited about it
2020-06-04T13:43:39 < jadew`> I can see this turning into a product
2020-06-04T13:44:01 < jadew`> I wanted to make one too at some point, but I figured there are already too many options
2020-06-04T13:44:18 < jadew`> yours looks ready almost
2020-06-04T13:47:29 < benishor> there's still a long way to go, but I'm having fun along the way
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2020-06-04T13:47:37 < benishor> learning things and making it the way I want it for myself
2020-06-04T13:48:15 < benishor> there are plenty of sdr rigs out there, I just want to go through the whole process myself
2020-06-04T13:51:48 < qyx> benishor: isnt wm* dead?
2020-06-04T13:53:24 < qyx> oh discovery
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2020-06-04T14:37:16 < jadew`> so... the boards arrived
2020-06-04T14:37:21 < jadew`> one and a half late
2020-06-04T14:37:33 < jadew`> and they screwed the fucking silkscreen
2020-06-04T14:38:12 < jadew`> 100 fucking boards
2020-06-04T14:40:46 < jpa-> norwegian version of mobile homes: https://twitter.com/Cuervo3/status/1268456352151732225
2020-06-04T14:42:55 < jadew`> it put them back
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2020-06-04T14:47:21 < zyp> jpa-, saw that earlier, surprised how well the houses held up
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2020-06-04T15:57:39 < zyp> dongs, the more I look at these half pth, half smt usb-c connectors, the less I like them
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2020-06-04T15:58:46 < zyp> when the pth part is 0.4mm holes at 0.8mm pitch, it gets fucking impossible to route anything between them
2020-06-04T15:58:51 < zyp> on any layer
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2020-06-04T16:44:06 < dongs> yes
2020-06-04T16:44:22 < dongs> but the other alternative is dual-row aids with hidden pads
2020-06-04T16:44:37 < dongs> actually my type C adapter used the hybrid one and I was able to route full 4 lane DP there without too much trouble
2020-06-04T16:44:38 < dirty_d> finally https://github.com/caseykneale/VIMKiller
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2020-06-04T17:18:51 < zyp> dongs, yeah, the highspeed lanes are reasonable enough, it's mostly CC/SBU that's retarded
2020-06-04T17:19:07 < dongs> dp altmode used that too
2020-06-04T17:20:09 < zyp> https://bin.jvnv.net/file/WJSeN.png <- CC is A5/B5, SBU is A8/B8
2020-06-04T17:20:47 < dongs> https://i.imgur.com/sTDErIH.png
2020-06-04T17:21:20 < zyp> thing is, I wanna run a differential signal to SBU
2020-06-04T17:21:34 < karlp> woosh, such flow traces
2020-06-04T17:21:52 < dongs> zyp, dp altmode puts DP_AUX there. but its fine
2020-06-04T17:21:55 < dongs> even with that sorta shitty routing
2020-06-04T17:21:57 < dongs> its only 1mbit
2020-06-04T17:22:01 < dongs> or wahtever? i forget.
2020-06-04T17:22:18 < zyp> sure, sure
2020-06-04T17:22:37 < zyp> I'm not saying it's not gonna work, just saying it's annoying :p
2020-06-04T17:23:25 < zyp> and yes, the fully smt ones are probably more annoying to assemble
2020-06-04T17:24:32 < dongs> i did assemble some micro-HDMI ones with covered up pads and that was never a problem so its not THAT bad but
2020-06-04T17:24:43 < dongs> if it IS fucked you arent gonna be rworking it
2020-06-04T17:27:17 < zyp> https://bin.jvnv.net/file/iNmK2.png not much new to see, but I'm slowly making progress on all the small bullshit details
2020-06-04T17:27:31 < zyp> I think I've fanned out almost every ball on the fpga now
2020-06-04T17:27:33 < dongs> have you ever considered using colors for different nets
2020-06-04T17:27:37 < dongs> like gnd/vcc/diff pairs etc.
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2020-06-04T17:27:44 < dongs> how the fuck can you deal with all same-colored bullshit at once
2020-06-04T17:27:46 < zyp> yes, I've used that before
2020-06-04T17:28:38 < zyp> I might do that for the power nets once I start routing those
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2020-06-04T17:40:32 < zyp> if I'm counting right, out of 381 balls, I've got 16 that are not connected
2020-06-04T17:40:36 < zyp> https://bin.jvnv.net/file/wLzLL.png
2020-06-04T17:41:22 < zyp> of the 16, two are reserved and eight are NC in the smaller variants so I've avoided using them
2020-06-04T17:42:08 < karlp> doe this count as winning? :)
2020-06-04T17:42:26 < zyp> then I've got three spare IOs in the banks that are at the DDR3 voltage level that I have no use for, and three in the config bank that's kinda hard to do anything useful with
2020-06-04T17:43:06 < karlp> qfn lower right is your crossbar matrix thingy?
2020-06-04T17:43:21 < zyp> karlp, dunno, I've just never fanned out a BGA this big and with this much utilization yet, so I'm pretty happy about how it's turned out
2020-06-04T17:43:23 < karlp> what are the two little qfns? usb pd controllers?
2020-06-04T17:43:36 < zyp> yes and power switches
2020-06-04T17:44:06 < zyp> TPS66020, same thing that I put on the PMOD design
2020-06-04T17:44:17 < karlp> what's qfn on the top middle? stm32 for chan relevance? connected via usb on that usb2-only usb-c?
2020-06-04T17:44:27 < zyp> ft4232
2020-06-04T17:44:33 < zyp> stm32 is still missing
2020-06-04T17:44:49 < zyp> gonna fit a g0 somewhere close to the usb-c connectors for PD comms and power control
2020-06-04T17:45:50 < karlp> little bga is ram?
2020-06-04T17:45:56 < karlp> or flash?
2020-06-04T17:46:01 < karlp> flash I guess
2020-06-04T17:46:51 < karlp> what are the two big red pads for? is that part of the mounting for the dim slot? is it a lying flat one? not standing up?
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2020-06-04T17:55:47 < emeb> wow - 1st time submitting a 4L board to JLCPCB. Simple 63x109mm rectangular board w/o any fancy cutouts. $3.60 board cost (5pcs) but they tacked on a $31 "Engineering fee" with no explanation of what it's for.
2020-06-04T17:56:05 < strata> no that's normal
2020-06-04T17:56:52 < emeb> When I did 2L boards that only appeared when I had odd cutouts & board outlines that weren't rectangular.
2020-06-04T17:57:15 < effractur> the quite thingy shows also the fee
2020-06-04T17:57:21 < strata> 4L is moar layer. moar expensive.
2020-06-04T17:57:43 < effractur> 100x100 4l is still cheap just the odd size is the fee
2020-06-04T17:58:03 < emeb> so you're saying that they load the 2L/4L cost delta in to the fee and not the board price?
2020-06-04T17:58:37 < strata> afaik yes because they use a whole different line to make the 4L boards
2020-06-04T17:58:46 < effractur> no 4L us $7 dollars for 100x100mm
2020-06-04T17:58:51 < effractur> but the odd size is the fee
2020-06-04T17:59:14 < strata> effractur, is u sayin jlcpcb is now doing 4L for the same price as 2L if you stay under 100x100mm ?!
2020-06-04T17:59:18 < strata> i don't remember them doing that
2020-06-04T17:59:49 < effractur> that is just the output of the quote thingy on the site
2020-06-04T17:59:55 < effractur> 100x100 4l is 7 dollar for 5
2020-06-04T18:00:13 < effractur> and  2 dollars for 2l with the basix
2020-06-04T18:00:57 < strata> wow that's rad
2020-06-04T18:01:05 < effractur> if one side is larger then 100mm 
2020-06-04T18:01:09 < effractur> the extra fee is applied
2020-06-04T18:01:18 < zyp> I think it was a limited time discount though
2020-06-04T18:01:20 < emeb> aha
2020-06-04T18:01:26 < effractur> Basically, the basic cost for the pcb is consist of engineering fee+board fee, for the single pcb that within or equals to 102*102mm
2020-06-04T18:01:32 < effractur> according to the FAQ
2020-06-04T18:04:09 < zyp> karlp, it's sodimm so lying flat, yes
2020-06-04T18:04:34 < emeb> still < half the cost of OSHpark so whatev
2020-06-04T18:05:03 < zyp> karlp, https://bin.jvnv.net/file/1lgyF.png
2020-06-04T18:05:46 < emeb> cool
2020-06-04T18:05:52 < emeb> what's the card edge conn for?
2020-06-04T18:07:10 < zyp> serdes IO
2020-06-04T18:07:37 < zyp> I'm keeping the PCIe pinout, so it can also be put in an ordinary PCIe socket
2020-06-04T18:07:50 < karlp> are those lightpipes a standard part?
2020-06-04T18:08:39 < zyp> yes
2020-06-04T18:09:44  * karlp makes a note to remember that lightpipes can be standard, not designed as part of the housing...
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2020-06-04T18:09:51 < zyp> http://www.dialightsignalsandcomponents.com/Product/Details/Through_Hole_CBI_Vertical_Array_Right_Angle_Optical_Lightpipes/557575
2020-06-04T18:10:25 < zyp> exists with 1-4 pipes in the same housing
2020-06-04T18:10:46 < zyp> and yes, lightpipes can be standard, digikey has whole category of them
2020-06-04T18:11:01 < emeb> cute. I used some dialight std pipes on a project long ago. Worked fine.
2020-06-04T18:11:18 < zyp> https://www.digikey.com/products/en/optoelectronics/optics-light-pipes/102
2020-06-04T18:11:34 < zyp> emeb, yeah, they look great
2020-06-04T18:12:12 < emeb> https://www.modulargrid.net/e/audio-damage-adm09-odio
2020-06-04T18:14:22 < emeb> mounted some blue/yellow SMD LEDs with them (clients request) - makes for an interesting blue / purple / yellow combination.
2020-06-04T18:15:22 < zyp> :)
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2020-06-04T18:19:19 < zyp> emeb, did you see what I did for leds on this board?
2020-06-04T18:19:40 < emeb> zyp: no I didn't 
2020-06-04T18:19:44 < zyp> https://bin.jvnv.net/file/HxpO8.png
2020-06-04T18:20:31 < aandrew> zyp: interesting, so FPGA or MCU can drive the strip?
2020-06-04T18:20:39 < zyp> exactly
2020-06-04T18:21:07 < aandrew> could've saved yourself a part by just tristating or turning the non-driving pin into an input :-)
2020-06-04T18:21:27 < jpa-> the or gate voltage translates also
2020-06-04T18:21:32 < zyp> no, for two reasons
2020-06-04T18:21:37 < zyp> jpa- mentioned one
2020-06-04T18:21:51 < jpa-> and mcu is 3.3V and fpga is 1.8V
2020-06-04T18:21:58 < zyp> no, they're both 3.3V
2020-06-04T18:22:07 < jpa-> hmph
2020-06-04T18:22:17 < zyp> but not from the same regulator, fpga might be off :)
2020-06-04T18:22:28 < jpa-> so close but didn't guess :)
2020-06-04T18:23:40 < emeb> zyp: cool - just a chain of serial RGB LEDs driven by either FPGA or MCU
2020-06-04T18:23:48 < zyp> yes
2020-06-04T18:24:30 < emeb> only downside is that the basic blinky design we all do for the first "proof of life" test becomes a bit more difficult.
2020-06-04T18:24:59 < aandrew> ah, didn't think of voltage translation
2020-06-04T18:25:30 < emeb> you can often get away without that, but it's better to do it.
2020-06-04T18:25:43 < zyp> emeb, also my experience
2020-06-04T18:26:17 < zyp> and either way, I need the MCU be able to control the leds when the main regs are off
2020-06-04T18:26:27 < emeb> those 5V serial parts can be picky about duty cycle, and the weak 1 you get from 3.3V parts can skew it.
2020-06-04T18:30:31 < zyp> emeb, I guess if I wanna do a basic blinky on the fpga, I could have the mcu run a continous pattern toggling the leds quickly, a high level from the fpga would then interrupt the comms, freezing it at a given color
2020-06-04T18:31:15 < emeb> That would do it. "I know it works because bus contention"
2020-06-04T18:31:24 < zyp> e.g. a fast red/green toggling should look yellow when running, and would freeze at red or green
2020-06-04T18:31:56 < emeb> I always put a simple LED on one output just for diagnosis. Most designs have at least one spare output.
2020-06-04T18:33:21 < zyp> I'm planning to put all the spare IO I've fanned out on a stacking connector, to add a mezzanine above the usb-c connectors
2020-06-04T18:33:57 < zyp> I've got a bit over 16 IOs so the basic case would be two double PMOD sockets
2020-06-04T18:34:23 < emeb> PMODs are good. So many things you can do with them
2020-06-04T18:35:01 < zyp> but it's also possible to put an ethernet phy or whatever on it, could do RGMII
2020-06-04T18:35:24 < zyp> or one of those usb3 to parallel bridges with a 16-bit bus
2020-06-04T18:36:40 < emeb> those would be handy
2020-06-04T18:48:06 < zyp> yeah
2020-06-04T18:48:17 < zyp> but pmods are easy and flexible, so I'll start there
2020-06-04T18:49:07 < dongs> yeah i think last time i used a string of shitleds like this I also buffered it with 5V
2020-06-04T18:49:14 < dongs> even tho it worked without but i wanted to make sure
2020-06-04T18:49:28 < dongs> when you chain it , the output after the 1st led is gonna be 5V anyway
2020-06-04T18:49:37 < dongs> buut if 1st led sucks or someshit it could miss some pulses
2020-06-04T18:49:43 < zyp> yeah
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2020-06-04T18:50:06 < dongs> but i didnt need to drive it from multiple sources so it was just a single buffer thing
2020-06-04T18:50:14 < dongs> prolly same footprint as your shit with B missing
2020-06-04T18:50:20 < zyp> probably
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2020-06-04T19:12:11 < Mangy_Dog> Been painting the dialing ring. Gonna be doing some assembling very soon but this had to be done first. https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/362670523181957120/718134330966147084/IMG_20200604_170704.jpg
2020-06-04T19:12:28 < dongs> the fuck are you making, a stargate?
2020-06-04T19:13:44 < Mangy_Dog> yes
2020-06-04T19:14:53 < Laurenceb> oh wow my sides are orbital
2020-06-04T19:15:08 < Laurenceb> >wearing masks to become mandatory in britbongland
2020-06-04T19:15:20 < Mangy_Dog> ?
2020-06-04T19:15:22 < Laurenceb> >after they spent months trying to say it was bullshit
2020-06-04T19:15:30 < Laurenceb> the state of bong gov and media
2020-06-04T19:15:41 < Laurenceb> beyond parody
2020-06-04T19:15:46 < strata> what i wanna know is why UK is doing BLM protests for murica
2020-06-04T19:15:49 < dirty_d> hahaha
2020-06-04T19:15:51 < Laurenceb> ikr
2020-06-04T19:15:52 < strata> ya'll have lost your damn minds
2020-06-04T19:16:05 < strata> please stop trying to be like us. we're the most dysfunctional country on earth.
2020-06-04T19:16:09 < Mangy_Dog> and so with all the shortage of PPE, where the fuck are we lowly dregs meant to get masks from?
2020-06-04T19:16:19 < Laurenceb> ikr
2020-06-04T19:16:38 < Laurenceb> I got 15 on ebay literally minutes before they started banning the sellers
2020-06-04T19:16:50 < Laurenceb> but that was 2 months ago
2020-06-04T19:17:15 < Mangy_Dog> ooohhh
2020-06-04T19:17:19 < Mangy_Dog> its only on public transport
2020-06-04T19:17:41 < Mangy_Dog> well still shitty but luckily i live in a place where there is no public transport
2020-06-04T19:17:46 < dongs> are niggers looting in UK too>?
2020-06-04T19:17:53 < Mangy_Dog> ...
2020-06-04T19:18:18 < Mangy_Dog> wish all teh shit going on... do you really have to use that word?
2020-06-04T19:18:25 < strata> dongs, https://news.yahoo.com/uks-johnson-condemns-george-floyd-killing-calls-lawful-004605164.html
2020-06-04T19:18:58 < PaulFertser> Mangy_Dog: you know he has a right to use the word
2020-06-04T19:19:26 < PaulFertser> As he identifies as one
2020-06-04T19:20:42 < Mangy_Dog> im gay but i dont like using the word faggot
2020-06-04T19:20:57 < dongs> thats your own preference
2020-06-04T19:21:01 < strata> the dynamic there is a little different though
2020-06-04T19:21:04 < Laurenceb> kekking hard
2020-06-04T19:21:04 < dirty_d> Oh no, now the UK police are going to get a taste for violence too
2020-06-04T19:21:45 < strata> "hey look muricans are destroying their communities. let's stand with them and destroy our communities too!"
2020-06-04T19:22:04 < strata> "oh look. a small mom & pop restaurant. BURN IT! CORPORATIONS BAD."
2020-06-04T19:22:57 < strata> "let's burn down all the corporations except costco because where else are we gonna get supplies for our moltovs?"
2020-06-04T19:25:15 < dirty_d> So when is that asteroid going to finish us off?
2020-06-04T19:26:38 < Mangy_Dog> i dont condone the looting... thats just people being opitunistic, and it makes it worse theyre being opitunistic on a mans death. But i fully understand the rage and the violense thats happened in the riots when scores of people black and white and asian and hispanic are being brutalised by the police force who apparantly swore an oath to protect the very people theyre killing, blinding, 
2020-06-04T19:26:38 < Mangy_Dog> maming, attacking...
2020-06-04T19:28:01 < dirty_d> can't we just pay norway or somewhere to police the US?
2020-06-04T19:33:46 < specing> the proper response to looting is not shooting, it is universal basic income
2020-06-04T19:34:19 < Mangy_Dog> ^^^
2020-06-04T19:35:15 < Steffann> Lol
2020-06-04T19:39:03 < Mangy_Dog> steffann of course that wont solve everything........ but it would be a start dont you think?
2020-06-04T19:39:23 < leite> very comrade
2020-06-04T19:39:27 < leite> very nice*
2020-06-04T19:39:53 < Steffann> Im not sure about free money for doing nothing, Mangy_Dog 
2020-06-04T19:40:07 -!- Steffann is now known as Steffanx
2020-06-04T19:40:48 < Mangy_Dog> then provide a proper free education
2020-06-04T19:40:54 < Mangy_Dog> so people can have the skills to get good work
2020-06-04T19:41:02 < Mangy_Dog> provide the work so the people can use those skills and earn
2020-06-04T19:41:23 < Mangy_Dog> right now the system is so screwed that only people already with wealth have a chance to make it
2020-06-04T19:42:09 < Steffanx> Try dutchland. :P
2020-06-04T19:42:38 < Mangy_Dog> like right now
2020-06-04T19:42:41 < Mangy_Dog> im on state benifits
2020-06-04T19:42:45 < Mangy_Dog> have been for far too long
2020-06-04T19:42:51 < Mangy_Dog> i really want to be in work
2020-06-04T19:43:00 < Laurenceb> state enforced neetdom
2020-06-04T19:43:03 < Mangy_Dog> ive applied to hundreds and hundreds of jobs
2020-06-04T19:43:23 < Mangy_Dog> part of the problem is theres so little skilled work in this part of the UK
2020-06-04T19:43:26 < Mangy_Dog> i cant move though 
2020-06-04T19:43:44 < Steffanx> Cant or wont?
2020-06-04T19:43:49 < Mangy_Dog> cant
2020-06-04T19:43:53 < Mangy_Dog> you need money to move
2020-06-04T19:44:02 < Mangy_Dog> and at the same time I need to protect this place from falling apart
2020-06-04T19:44:13 < Mangy_Dog> its a family home thats been with us for a few gnerations
2020-06-04T19:44:41 < Laurenceb> what part of uk?
2020-06-04T19:44:50 < specing> Mangy_Dog: can't you remote?
2020-06-04T19:44:56 < Mangy_Dog> norfolk
2020-06-04T19:44:59 < Mangy_Dog> spec sure if i had clients
2020-06-04T19:45:04 < Mangy_Dog> go freelance if i could
2020-06-04T19:45:24 < Mangy_Dog> i could earn more that way too if i kept full time
2020-06-04T19:48:10 < Steffanx> You surely seem to have to skills when it comes to 3d work Mangy_Dog ..
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2020-06-04T19:53:48 < Steffanx> Anyway, its easy to say for me, but none of your "excuses" are a real "can't" Mangy_Dog ;)
2020-06-04T19:55:52 < dongs> https://i.imgur.com/KxkbTjY.jpg internet of garbage
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2020-06-04T20:05:09 < antto> https://i.imgur.com/XAl0TAw.png
2020-06-04T20:06:28 < antto> muh gear logo is missing a tooth
2020-06-04T20:06:41 < Mangy_Dog> the IOG is still pretty
2020-06-04T20:13:42 < englishman> congrats on embracing lora for the fantastic radio protocol that is is dongs
2020-06-04T20:15:17 < zyp> dongs, nice panelling
2020-06-04T20:16:32 < leite> very nice, what does this do antto ?
2020-06-04T20:17:07 < antto> leite just an MCU replacement adapter for an old device
2020-06-04T20:17:18 < leite> ok
2020-06-04T20:17:43 < antto> but i posted it cuz senpai loves kicad pics
2020-06-04T20:18:05 < leite> be noticed
2020-06-04T20:18:05 < antto> and linux
2020-06-04T20:18:12 < antto> and my DE theme
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2020-06-04T20:33:04 < Cracki> jadew`, show silkscreen?
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2020-06-04T20:48:39 < dirty_d> antto, did my change to position relative make it into whatever version you're using?
2020-06-04T20:48:42 < dirty_d> what an ordeal that was
2020-06-04T20:56:52 < leite> antto, how did u manage to make that curvy trace segment?
2020-06-04T20:59:27 < dirty_d> looks like no, not even in 5.1.6
2020-06-04T21:02:01 < antto> what change?
2020-06-04T21:02:54 < dirty_d> I made the reset buttons set the relative coordinates to the current offset from the reference point
2020-06-04T21:03:15 < dirty_d> so you can offset something in only one axis
2020-06-04T21:03:22 < antto> reset buttons?
2020-06-04T21:03:30 < antto> i don't know wut ur talking about at all
2020-06-04T21:03:41 < dirty_d> and using polar coordinates isn't limited to 0.1 degrees.
2020-06-04T21:03:43 < dirty_d> in kicad
2020-06-04T21:03:49 < dirty_d> the position relative dialog box
2020-06-04T21:04:09 < antto> i don't think i know this
2020-06-04T21:04:15 < antto> what version is that?
2020-06-04T21:04:36 < dirty_d> well, my change is in master, but it hasn't made it to the current release
2020-06-04T21:04:49 < antto> bruh i'm using 5.1.6
2020-06-04T21:04:58 < dirty_d> I figured it would have, it's been like months
2020-06-04T21:05:05 < dirty_d> antto, yea me too
2020-06-04T21:06:23 < dirty_d> you have the position relative tool, just not with the changes in master
2020-06-04T21:06:23 < antto> the curved tracks are made by hand with G
2020-06-04T21:07:00 < antto> uhm, i got tricks to position stuff relative to other stuff
2020-06-04T21:07:31 < dirty_d> yea, I was using the reset grid origin thing
2020-06-04T21:07:37 < antto> nah, not that
2020-06-04T21:07:43 < dirty_d> how did you do it?
2020-06-04T21:07:54 < antto> eggsploit the snapping
2020-06-04T21:08:00 < dirty_d> hmm
2020-06-04T21:08:26 < antto> maybe i have a .gif
2020-06-04T21:08:29 < dirty_d> but if the thing you're positioning relative to isn't exactly on a grid point
2020-06-04T21:08:38 < antto> no problem
2020-06-04T21:08:43 < dirty_d> extra hmm
2020-06-04T21:11:20 < antto> https://i.imgur.com/yZG2XSY.mp4
2020-06-04T21:12:29 < antto> so, this ^ is the tricky to slap sh*t on top of another sh*t, then with an additional move you can move it on X/Y while keeping the other coordinate the same
2020-06-04T21:12:53 < antto> instead of move, you could ctrl+M at that point to get "position relative to.."
2020-06-04T21:13:15 < antto> no fiddling with grid required
2020-06-04T21:13:21 < dirty_d> ahh, right
2020-06-04T21:18:22 < dirty_d> oh, I think I added that because if you're dragging it doesn't snap to things that don't lie on grid points
2020-06-04T21:18:27 < dirty_d> but with position relative the reference item selection snaps to anything
2020-06-04T21:18:37 < dirty_d> same with reset grid origin
2020-06-04T21:18:38 < antto> drag?
2020-06-04T21:19:21 < dirty_d> like in your video
2020-06-04T21:19:32 < antto> i'm moving, not dragging
2020-06-04T21:20:00 < antto> aka i'm pressing M
2020-06-04T21:20:30 < dirty_d> my default settings move when you click and drag
2020-06-04T21:21:06 < antto> well, i keep saying that the default kicad settings are WTF
2020-06-04T21:21:25 < dirty_d> I feel like they've been different on every system I've installed it on
2020-06-04T21:27:57 < benishor> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Kf1nyanKWps
2020-06-04T21:29:12 < dirty_d> I could go for a wuhan roll right about now
2020-06-04T21:31:13 < dirty_d> that's slightly disturbing
2020-06-04T21:31:25 < benishor> I was waiting for reactions
2020-06-04T21:31:36 < benishor> no more wuhan rolls, eh?
2020-06-04T21:33:11 < dirty_d> not today
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2020-06-04T21:35:31 < strata> if i want wuhan soup i gotta make it myself
2020-06-04T21:35:49 < strata> local chinese restaurant been closed since january
2020-06-04T21:36:12 < Steffanx> This joke became boring. Gotta come up with something new pleease.
2020-06-04T21:38:03 < strata> no worries m8. we'll be back on CCP virus in a few months after these riots
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2020-06-04T21:52:04 < Laurenceb> the wuhan shake
2020-06-04T21:53:07 < benishor> good one
2020-06-04T21:53:14 < benishor> wukan shake > harlem shake
2020-06-04T22:03:25 -!- ohsix [~ohsix@h216-228-175-210.bendor.broadband.dynamic.tds.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds]
2020-06-04T22:04:09 < strata> snooowflake studio new The Clapper(tm) Microaggression-free version with deep learning camera. Turn on/off your lights with jazz hands!
2020-06-04T22:04:10 < Steffanx> lol this must be the first compliment in ##stm32 for you ever in ##stm32 Laurenceb :D
2020-06-04T22:04:56 < Steffanx> -in ##stm32, somewhere in that sentence
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2020-06-04T22:05:31 < mawk> I bought half a liter of pg vg mix
2020-06-04T22:05:42 < mawk> with no nicotine in it
2020-06-04T22:05:55 < mawk> but that doesn't matter to European law
2020-06-04T22:06:16 < mawk> they still shipped me the 0.5L in 50 bottles of 10mL
2020-06-04T22:06:56 < mawk> I had to open all of them, remove child safety, remove thin neck, press them to get all last drops, go to the next
2020-06-04T22:07:29 < mawk> thank you mister Rook Winkel
2020-06-04T22:08:35 < Steffanx> Poor vaper 
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2020-06-04T22:10:32 < benishor> I;m glad I quit smoking
2020-06-04T22:10:38 < strata> ^
2020-06-04T22:10:45 < strata> benishor, when did you quit?
2020-06-04T22:10:56 < benishor> strata: when I made a baby
2020-06-04T22:11:06 < strata> i quit before the plandemic
2020-06-04T22:11:09 < benishor> wifey had to stop smoking so I had to transitively stop smoking as well
2020-06-04T22:11:12 < strata> when it was still in china
2020-06-04T22:11:32 < benishor> best thing I've done
2020-06-04T22:11:39 < benishor> if I could just quit drinking too ..
2020-06-04T22:11:47 < strata> yea it's great i'm only 3-4 months in and feel a lot better
2020-06-04T22:11:49 < benishor> but that's too much fun
2020-06-04T22:12:00 < strata> as far as drinking goes - haven't drank alcohol in 2-3 years
2020-06-04T22:12:02 < benishor> also playing the crutch role when dealing with anxiety
2020-06-04T22:12:08 < benishor> woah 2-3 years
2020-06-04T22:12:11 < benishor> kudos to you
2020-06-04T22:12:25 < benishor> did you use to drink a lot?
2020-06-04T22:12:31 < strata> nope
2020-06-04T22:12:42 < benishor> well then, lucky you
2020-06-04T22:12:56 < strata> i like to get shitfaced tho
2020-06-04T22:13:36 < mawk> alcohol is way worse than cigs
2020-06-04T22:13:42 < mawk> you bet on the wrong horse
2020-06-04T22:14:02 < benishor> as everything in life, it depends
2020-06-04T22:14:33 < benishor> our ancestors had a thing for fermented fruits
2020-06-04T22:14:48 < benishor> god created fruits which ferment. could god be wrong?
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2020-06-04T22:21:16 < kakimir> back from fields
2020-06-04T22:21:29 -!- strata [~strata@gateway/tor-sasl/xdr] has joined ##stm32
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2020-06-04T22:27:35 < mawk> lol benishor 
2020-06-04T22:27:40 < mawk> it doesn't depend, no
2020-06-04T22:27:51 < mawk> alcohol as a substance is more dangerous
2020-06-04T22:28:00 < mawk> using any set of non flawed metric you want
2020-06-04T22:28:34 < mawk> health effects, social dangerosity, addictivity, withdrawals, etc
2020-06-04T22:28:46 < mawk> all drug ranking studies find ethanol to be near heroin
2020-06-04T22:29:06 < mawk> then yes you can maybe have a reasonable consumption of alcohol
2020-06-04T22:29:16  * PaulFertser wants to have a beer right now
2020-06-04T22:29:30 < mawk> but would you believe your son asking you to let him smoke some heroin because he won't get addicted and it will be just once a week
2020-06-04T22:29:34 < mawk> lol
2020-06-04T22:29:45 < mawk> you're ruining my argumentation :(
2020-06-04T22:30:07 < englishman> better do heroin instead
2020-06-04T22:30:14 < mawk> yes
2020-06-04T22:30:16 < mawk> it's more fun
2020-06-04T22:31:05 < antto> music https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YV4oYkIeGJc
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2020-06-04T22:34:23 < kakimir> are you guys on heroine again?
2020-06-04T22:35:23 < mawk> no
2020-06-04T22:35:27 < mawk> too expensive
2020-06-04T22:35:44 < kakimir> yes
2020-06-04T22:35:55 < mawk> I'm doing political militantism,bit's cheaper
2020-06-04T22:36:01 < mawk> but less rewarding
2020-06-04T22:40:46 < zyp> hmm, wonder if the qfn28 g0 has enough io for this stuff
2020-06-04T22:40:54 < zyp> it might
2020-06-04T22:44:49 < Cracki> how does alcohol compare to licking funny frogs?
2020-06-04T22:45:58 < Cracki> i mean, going by human history, both must have been discovered pretty early. animals eat fermented fruit, animals lick poisonous frogs
2020-06-04T22:52:39 < kakimir> some places do not have frogs that make funny drug when licked
2020-06-04T22:52:54 < antto> is this a french thing?
2020-06-04T22:53:05 < antto> why would you f*ckin lick a frog
2020-06-04T22:54:13 < antto> <frog> ewww, gtfo u filthy sh*t
2020-06-04T22:55:32 -!- Streaker [~Streaker@unaffiliated/streaker] has quit [Quit: Streaker]
2020-06-04T22:57:57 < Cracki> same frog you use to make poisonous darts you can lick to see funny colors
2020-06-04T22:58:49 < kakimir> in jungle you don't grow grains
2020-06-04T22:59:14 < kakimir> and where you grow grains you don't have exotic dope frogs
2020-06-04T23:00:02 < Cracki> https://blog.nationalgeographic.org/2008/08/07/researcher-licks-poison-frogs-in-pursuit-of-science/
2020-06-04T23:00:05 < Cracki> it's like mushrooms
2020-06-04T23:00:17 < Cracki> know the magic ones, and the deadly ones
2020-06-04T23:01:47 < kakimir> and magic potentially deadly ones
2020-06-04T23:16:54 -!- c10ud^ [~c10ud@emesene/dictator/c10ud] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds]
2020-06-04T23:17:29 < PaulFertser> It's just a quick test. Similar to how you'd test a 9 V battery.
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2020-06-04T23:20:28 < superbia> hello welcome
2020-06-04T23:25:05 < Steffanx> Have room?
2020-06-04T23:25:26 < superbia> I got rid of bad people in my life
2020-06-04T23:25:34 < superbia> just wanted to say that I can finally be happy again
2020-06-04T23:28:44 < Steffanx> Yeah. Who did you kill?
2020-06-04T23:28:59 < superbia> nobody...
2020-06-04T23:29:06 < Steffanx> Awh
2020-06-04T23:29:12 < superbia> just talk to some people, write a letter, email, you know
2020-06-04T23:29:18 < superbia> bad word spreads
2020-06-04T23:29:26 < superbia> I just planted the seed
2020-06-04T23:30:08 < superbia> ok, so happy... going out, need to shower, dress, and meet with my winggirl
2020-06-04T23:30:18 < superbia> Steffanx: night !
2020-06-04T23:30:24 < Ultrasauce> but first, irc
2020-06-04T23:31:12 < superbia> Ultrasauce: shower, bye
2020-06-04T23:31:19 -!- superbia [~user@unaffiliated/superbia] has quit [Quit: WeeChat 2.4]
2020-06-04T23:32:06 < Steffanx> And i thought i was a weirdo.
2020-06-04T23:33:31 < Steffanx> Got something interesting to share like that as well Ultrasauce?
2020-06-04T23:34:28 < Ultrasauce> fedex just lost a bunch of my gear
2020-06-04T23:40:46 < englishman> amazing
2020-06-04T23:40:53 < englishman> that sounds like canada post's job
2020-06-04T23:45:43 < Ultrasauce> it seems to be every courier's calling to provide the worst possible service in unique and interesting ways
2020-06-04T23:53:08 < Steffanx> Damn, it seems you really have to go for that mail man job englishman 
2020-06-04T23:53:25 < Steffanx> Best job during those coronizzle times
2020-06-04T23:56:41 < englishman> https://i.imgur.com/iPv369b.jpg
2020-06-04T23:56:53 < englishman> job: sitting in a box and eating grass
2020-06-04T23:58:27 < qyx> lol
2020-06-04T23:58:51 < qyx> englishman: playing with ttn
2020-06-04T23:58:55 < qyx> s/playing/working
2020-06-04T23:59:07 < englishman> pretty nice interface isnt it
2020-06-04T23:59:25 < qyx> pretty nonfunctional
2020-06-04T23:59:42 < qyx> I have join accepted, transmit ok
2020-06-04T23:59:44 < qyx> still no data
--- Day changed Fri Jun 05 2020
2020-06-05T00:00:04 < englishman> https://worksonmymachine.pro/
2020-06-05T00:00:27 < qyx> yeah could be pebkac
2020-06-05T00:01:01 < englishman> admittedly there is a lot of stuff to set up and few ways to debug
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2020-06-05T00:01:43 < englishman> the RAK stuff came basically set up for it
2020-06-05T00:01:51 < qyx> I don't have a gw
2020-06-05T00:01:56 < englishman> ...
2020-06-05T00:02:09 < qyx> there should be a couple of gateways in range
2020-06-05T00:02:38 < englishman> oh it should be even easier then?
2020-06-05T00:02:44 < englishman> idk how to set up public gateways
2020-06-05T00:02:58 < qyx> I assumed so
2020-06-05T00:03:05 < qyx> add app, add device
2020-06-05T00:03:06 < qyx> copy keys
2020-06-05T00:03:07 < qyx> done
2020-06-05T00:03:09 < qyx> but nope
2020-06-05T00:03:15 < englishman> yeah you dont set up the gateway at all?
2020-06-05T00:03:29 < englishman> just the app in ttn and the app and public gateway keys in your device?
2020-06-05T00:03:37 < qyx> yes
2020-06-05T00:04:16 < englishman> otaa or abp
2020-06-05T00:04:27 < qyx> abp
2020-06-05T00:04:33 < qyx> I could try otaa too
2020-06-05T00:04:41 < qyx> but with this local ISP otaa didn't work
2020-06-05T00:04:51 < englishman> otaa takes a while ime
2020-06-05T00:04:56 < englishman> like 10min sometimes
2020-06-05T00:04:57 < qyx> they say it should so I assumed my device is buggy
2020-06-05T00:05:06 < qyx> uh
2020-06-05T00:05:14 < englishman> so i got started with abp then moved to otaa
2020-06-05T00:05:16 < qyx> that could be the case then
2020-06-05T00:06:02 < qyx> now I have this https://i.imgur.com/8toEn2O.png
2020-06-05T00:06:29 < englishman> and you have all that shit programmed in your device
2020-06-05T00:06:32 < qyx> and this https://paste.jvnv.net/view/l1PLk
2020-06-05T00:07:25 < qyx> deveui is copied to TTN from the device
2020-06-05T00:07:26 < englishman> where do you set the device eui
2020-06-05T00:07:55 < qyx> because it is immutable in the device modem
2020-06-05T00:08:21 < englishman> your device was working before right
2020-06-05T00:08:25 < englishman> ie. it is set to 868
2020-06-05T00:08:35 < qyx> yes
2020-06-05T00:08:49 < qyx> 20 mins ago
2020-06-05T00:08:55 < englishman> what debug info do you get out of the device
2020-06-05T00:08:56 < qyx> before the settings were changed
2020-06-05T00:09:20 < qyx> the device confirmed join (accepted)
2020-06-05T00:09:29 < qyx> and TX completed without errors
2020-06-05T00:09:33 < qyx> unconfirmed tx
2020-06-05T00:11:55 < qyx> hm Status
2020-06-05T00:11:56 < qyx> never seen
2020-06-05T00:12:37 < englishman> that just means the app has never seen it, not that the network has never seen it
2020-06-05T00:13:11 < qyx> how do I check if the network sees the registration?
2020-06-05T00:13:45 < englishman> well for me i go to the gateway tab...
2020-06-05T00:14:44 < qyx> :( You do not have any gateways
2020-06-05T00:14:58 < englishman> you will have to see in your network interface
2020-06-05T00:15:32 < qyx> maybe I could buy that mikrotik miniPCI-e gateway and insert it into my super pro device
2020-06-05T00:15:47 < englishman> tbh the public network seems so good in your area idk if i'd bother
2020-06-05T00:16:21 < qyx> btw the map is super slow :S
2020-06-05T00:25:01 < qyx> interesting the device has green dot besides it
2020-06-05T00:25:22 < qyx> a newly added one has orange one
2020-06-05T00:26:53 < qyx> with otaa it says denied, when I try transmitting it says not joined
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2020-06-05T00:53:47 < Laurenceb> <qyx> btw the map is super slow :S
2020-06-05T00:53:53 < Laurenceb> the google maps experience
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2020-06-05T01:09:48 < Laurenceb> >Dave Dees died
2020-06-05T01:09:49 < Laurenceb> F
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2020-06-05T01:23:03 < mawk> who's that
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2020-06-05T01:35:05 < qyx> back to my autism topic again, how to flash/debug stm32 from a stm32?
2020-06-05T01:35:27 < zyp> blackmagic probe?
2020-06-05T01:35:31 -!- fujin [sid32258@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-ncbavpogypxxqwky] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds]
2020-06-05T01:36:02 < qyx> and besides that?
2020-06-05T01:36:15 < qyx> isnt there a stlink/jlink OB or whatever available?
2020-06-05T01:36:15 < zyp> what's your goal?
2020-06-05T01:36:29 -!- tkerby [sid176660@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-nradanmfcrxagohc] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds]
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2020-06-05T01:36:32 < qyx> out-of-band debugger/flasher for the subrack thing
2020-06-05T01:36:47 < zyp> dunno about stlink, maybe you can find a jlink-ob blob
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2020-06-05T01:36:57 < zyp> but why not go with something opensource?
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2020-06-05T01:37:12 < qyx> if you recommend bmp, it must be good
2020-06-05T01:37:15 < qyx> I'll check it again
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2020-06-05T01:37:34 < qyx> I want avoid using linux+openocd, because it is power hungry
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2020-06-05T01:38:00 < zyp> why does power matter when you're debugging?
2020-06-05T01:38:03 < qyx> but on the other hand, that way I could have it done without writing more than 10 lines of code
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2020-06-05T01:39:09 < zyp> bmp is an all in one gdbserver, just attach gdb directly to the cdc-acm interface
2020-06-05T01:39:12 < qyx> because the usecase for the thing is inserting it as a card to a remote location, optionally battery powered
2020-06-05T01:39:20 < qyx> and keep it there for wekks
2020-06-05T01:39:21 < qyx> weeks
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2020-06-05T01:40:19 < zyp> hmm, I keep being surprised by the scale of the stuff I'm working on, all the parts I add takes more space than I expected
2020-06-05T01:40:43 < qyx> (when I was taling about it last time, I was about to use that f1c100s + sysfs gpio with openocd and wake up the thing with gprs modem ring output
2020-06-05T01:40:50 -!- Streaker [~Streaker@unaffiliated/streaker] has joined ##stm32
2020-06-05T01:40:59 < qyx> because huge fpga, many balls
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2020-06-05T01:41:32 < zyp> https://bin.jvnv.net/file/JGy5f.png <- added the DF12 connector, it's only 10mm long, but huge as fuck
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2020-06-05T01:41:52 < qyx> you are using 64bit DDR3 in place where I am using 4bit SPI flash
2020-06-05T01:42:00 < zyp> :)
2020-06-05T01:42:12 < zyp> well, yeah
2020-06-05T01:42:56 < zyp> the sodimm socket eats a lot of board area, partly because I can't put any tall stuff under it and partly because there's a ton of routing there anyway
2020-06-05T01:42:57 < qyx> my next step is going to be L4+ with hyperbus DRAM
2020-06-05T01:43:18 < zyp> bitbanging hyperbus?
2020-06-05T01:43:27 < qyx> no, L4+ has native hyperbus
2020-06-05T01:43:31 < zyp> oh
2020-06-05T01:43:34 < zyp> nice
2020-06-05T01:43:40 < zyp> I haven't been keeping up
2020-06-05T01:43:45 < qyx> a great step forward, 4b -> 8b!
2020-06-05T01:44:05 < qyx> still lazy for psram/sdram
2020-06-05T01:44:42 < qyx> actually I don't have any use of it, buffering megabytes of data in volatile memory on solar power is adventurous
2020-06-05T01:45:12 < zyp> haha, true
2020-06-05T01:48:38 < zyp> ah, hyperbus is an additional mode to octospi
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2020-06-05T01:49:16 < ds2> wow ESP32 is more of a rabbit hole then audurino :(
2020-06-05T01:50:18 < zyp> heh
2020-06-05T01:50:23 < zyp> I've stayed away from it
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2020-06-05T01:50:40 < zyp> I don't wanna learn the xtensa stuff
2020-06-05T01:50:54 < zyp> new architecture, new toolchains, etc…
2020-06-05T01:51:16 < zyp> not used anywhere else of relevance
2020-06-05T01:51:34 < zyp> although esp32 on its own is probably big enough to warrant reasonable relevance nowadays
2020-06-05T01:51:48 < zyp> but still, I'd rather get into riscv
2020-06-05T01:54:58 < ds2> zyp: I just trying their demo
2020-06-05T01:55:08 < ds2> price is extremely attractive
2020-06-05T01:55:41 < ds2> apparently the use of simple makefiles is not in the heads of the ESP32 developers
2020-06-05T01:56:02 < specing> zyp: it's not new toolchain, it's gcc
2020-06-05T01:57:49 < zyp> well, duh
2020-06-05T01:58:28 < ds2> but their layers of wrapping is making Keil look like a joke
2020-06-05T01:59:15 < qyx> and kconfig!
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2020-06-05T02:00:24 < ds2> whatever happen to simple Makefiles, bunch of .a's and be done with
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2020-06-05T02:14:57 < tcth> just use cmake
2020-06-05T02:20:29 < ds2> it doesn't look good when a dev board's example doesn't even compile
2020-06-05T02:20:48 < ds2> and it turns out the tools do not like >0x7f's in a file even if it is a comment
2020-06-05T02:25:19 < Cracki> asskey
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2020-06-05T02:34:17 < qyx> hah bmp doesn't support L4?
2020-06-05T02:34:19 < qyx> https://raw.githubusercontent.com/wiki/blacksphere/blackmagic/images/bmpm_ARM_Cortex-M_targets.png
2020-06-05T03:00:22 < qyx> ok, going with F7 + SDRAM, buildroot, uclibc userspace, openocd
2020-06-05T03:00:58 < qyx> I must come up with something to fail on
2020-06-05T03:04:51 < qyx> 6.17€ for 4L on jlcpcb? O_o
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2020-06-05T03:32:03 < Cracki> they are giving up on lots of profit just to keep the business running. global economy has been hit. that affects them too.
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2020-06-05T03:36:17 < ds2> isn't there a discovery board that supports MIPI cameras? Is there a common camera (say the junk for the RPi) that works with it?
2020-06-05T03:37:26 < Cracki> google says f469/79 supports mpi DSI... maybe csi too
2020-06-05T03:39:31 < Cracki> hm, someone says no, just dsi
2020-06-05T03:40:26 < Cracki> someone else questions the wisdom of trying to use a cortex m, or stm32F/G/H/L, for the data rates that those cameras produce
2020-06-05T03:40:45 < Cracki> I think I saw some mention of an mp1 based som that can eat CSI-2
2020-06-05T03:41:16 < Cracki> https://wiki.somlabs.com/index.php/VisionSOM-STM32MP1
2020-06-05T03:41:25 < Cracki> https://www.eenewsanalog.com/news/stm32mp1-mpu-development-platform-adds-flexibility-and-jump-starts-development
2020-06-05T03:42:06 < Cracki> I wonder if they use a converter chip and it's arriving as parallel...
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2020-06-05T04:03:17 < ds2> there is one with CSI support. saw it at the ST booth at ARM techcon
2020-06-05T04:03:28 < ds2> finding it is a whole different story
2020-06-05T04:06:53 < Cracki> are you sure it's actual CSI, not some parallel thing
2020-06-05T04:10:19 < ds2> yes
2020-06-05T04:10:35 < ds2> parallel thing is trivial.. I have bit bang that
2020-06-05T04:10:59 < ds2> it may have been withdrawn or removed... the rep at one point claimed the full docs are in the manuals (it  is not)
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2020-06-05T04:45:22 < Cracki> they're ashamed of their products
2020-06-05T04:45:52 < Cracki> every day they pray that nobody asks for that shit or else they are discovered to be frauds
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2020-06-05T05:47:39 < ds2> hmm apparently 2 of 2 esp32 boards have issues on them....
2020-06-05T05:48:27 < ds2> there is got to be a reliable and cheap camera board :(
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2020-06-05T07:34:09 < emeb_mac> I bought a bunch of those cheapo esp32 camera modules. Seem to work OK for http and rtsp access.
2020-06-05T07:34:51 < emeb_mac> They get pretty warm & need more current than a typical host USB can provide tho. Gotta use a USB wallwart to power them
2020-06-05T07:36:12 < emeb_mac> but if you can hold your nose and use Arduino IDE they're basically functional
2020-06-05T07:40:37 < ds2> where? mine are digikey items
2020-06-05T07:40:49 < ds2> 1 has a messed up cp2
2020-06-05T07:40:55 < ds2> 301
2020-06-05T07:41:06 < ds2> 1 has a messed up camera
2020-06-05T07:41:42 < ds2> going to swapmparts to see if i can get one good one
2020-06-05T07:42:22 < ds2> they seem like a useable cam for kites
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2020-06-05T07:44:50 < emeb_mac> I got some of these: https://www.ebay.com/itm/ESP32-CAM-ESP32-5V-Development-BoardWIFI-Bluetooth-OV2640-Camera-Module-Arduino/153524831159
2020-06-05T07:44:57 < emeb_mac> both kinds
2020-06-05T07:45:12 < emeb_mac> the ones w/ SD socket and the ones with USB C
2020-06-05T07:45:14 < emeb_mac> both work
2020-06-05T07:45:40 < emeb_mac> but the USB C ones don't have PSRAM so they can't double-buffer the video - slows them down a bit.
2020-06-05T08:02:19 < ds2> so your yield is 100%
2020-06-05T08:02:22 < ds2> ?
2020-06-05T08:04:39 < Cracki> does the "stuff around it" actually carry the data rate the camera can do?
2020-06-05T08:04:44 < Cracki> how awful does the compression look?
2020-06-05T08:07:53 < emeb_mac> I got 2pcs of the SD card style and 3pcs of the USB C style. Both SD card ones work, only tested one of the USB C ones but it's fine.
2020-06-05T08:08:07 < emeb_mac> so 60% good, 40% unknown
2020-06-05T08:08:52 < emeb_mac> The data rates and image quality are decent. Not stunning, but usable.
2020-06-05T08:09:44 < emeb_mac> I think the max res is 1280x??? and the ones  with PSRAM can stream that fine.
2020-06-05T08:10:25 < emeb_mac> the ones w/o PSRAM can do 640x??? but if you go higher then the bottom of the image gets truncated when the next frame starts.
2020-06-05T08:10:45 < Cracki> lol
2020-06-05T08:11:03 < Cracki> at what frame rate tho
2020-06-05T08:11:36 < Cracki> the lower resolutions should be able to do strictly more than 15 fps
2020-06-05T08:11:58 < Cracki> I'm not asking about the ov2640 but the esp32 and firmware side
2020-06-05T08:12:07 < emeb_mac> not positive what the rate is
2020-06-05T08:13:22 < Cracki> I hope they're just taking "compressed data" from the camera itself and dumping that
2020-06-05T08:13:42 < Cracki> if you go too fast, does the chopped off bottom of the frame jitter up and down, or is it at a constant level
2020-06-05T08:15:22 < Thorn> which wi-fi+ble modules can be used with both bare metal / MCU and linux?
2020-06-05T08:16:24 < Thorn> the only thing I found so far that promises support for both is WICED(tm)
2020-06-05T08:16:34 < emeb_mac> Cracki: the bottom jitters a bit
2020-06-05T08:17:08 < Cracki> you see "broken" jpeg blocks or no?
2020-06-05T08:17:13 < Cracki> (at the bottom)
2020-06-05T08:17:36 < Cracki> eh, they'll probably send it to jpeg mode and pipe that out. esp32 claims to be powerful but I don't but iy
2020-06-05T08:17:38 < Cracki> *buy it
2020-06-05T08:18:21 < emeb_mac> it's not a clean break
2020-06-05T08:18:26 < Cracki> good good
2020-06-05T08:23:26 < Cracki> tv series recommendation: "seal team". kinda wholesome. also no bullshit writing but seemingly "polished" mission reports. and they just called murican "football" by its proper name which is handegg
2020-06-05T08:23:54 < emeb_mac> looking at the ov2640 datasheet I'd believe 15fps for the high-res frames and 25/30/60 for smaller ones
2020-06-05T08:24:16 < Cracki> *cackling* https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Handegg
2020-06-05T08:25:05 < Cracki> I'm wondering if a bunch of those things in tupperware with some wired power would be good security cams
2020-06-05T08:34:29 < emeb_mac> Cracki: yeah - that's kinda where I'm headed with this
2020-06-05T08:35:33 < emeb_mac> would be nice if someone had some cheap weatherproof cases, but tupperware/etc would work too.
2020-06-05T08:35:51 < Cracki> I'm sure some chinaman has come up with something
2020-06-05T08:36:11 < Cracki> you could prolly 3d print something if you felt like it
2020-06-05T08:36:51 < Cracki> random electronics-looking plastic case is also "tupperware"
2020-06-05T08:38:26 < Cracki> I see enough results on ali but it's probably cheaper to buy that locally. 99% of the cost is shipping
2020-06-05T08:39:31 < emeb_mac> lol - saw one project where they put them in dummy camera housings.
2020-06-05T08:39:43 < emeb_mac> not so dummy after all
2020-06-05T08:40:14 < Cracki> lol
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2020-06-05T10:22:42 < zyp> qyx, it probably does
2020-06-05T10:23:07 < zyp> documentation like that tends to lag behind the actual code
2020-06-05T10:23:13 < zyp> I've used it with WB
2020-06-05T10:24:47 < zyp> judging by https://github.com/blacksphere/blackmagic/blob/master/src/target/stm32l4.c#L129 it supports both L4, G0 and G4
2020-06-05T10:26:17 < zyp> there's also a H7 file
2020-06-05T10:27:28 < zyp> qyx, the file you linked is dated 2017
2020-06-05T10:38:53 < qyx> maybe I could have multiple instances running on the F7
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2020-06-05T10:40:21 < qyx> I'll try to make 4L with TFBGA F7 + BGA SDRAM
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2020-06-05T10:45:22 < qyx> STM32F750N8H6 looks great for what I want
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2020-06-05T11:26:53 < qyx> on a F746 disco, why do they connect only 16bits on the SDRAM
2020-06-05T11:31:24 < zyp> does FMC support more?
2020-06-05T11:31:59 < zyp> hmm
2020-06-05T11:33:14 < zyp> if I have two interconnected UARTs on different power supplies, how do I keep a powered TX from injecting current into an unpowered RX? is there a more clever way than just a series resistor?
2020-06-05T11:33:42 < ds2> besides buffers specifically for that?
2020-06-05T11:35:52 < zyp> any particular you have in mind?
2020-06-05T11:35:58 < zyp> I don't need voltage translation
2020-06-05T11:36:32 < zyp> also, I need a solution for I2C as well, since I've got I2C devices on different supplies as well
2020-06-05T11:36:45 < zyp> so I need to keep the unpowered I2C devices from pulling down the bus
2020-06-05T11:37:11 < zyp> if there's one part that'll solve both, that'd be interesting
2020-06-05T11:39:33 < zyp> to make it simpler, there's only one side that can be unpowered while the other is powered
2020-06-05T11:41:18 < qyx> TCA4311A is a I2C-aware hotplug buffer specifically for that
2020-06-05T11:41:52 < qyx> I used it but actually never checked if it works as expected
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2020-06-05T11:47:28 < ds2> let me look
2020-06-05T11:48:19 < ds2> SN74LVC2G241
2020-06-05T11:48:48 < ds2> it will safely handle input w/o power. You can tie the power to the UART power on one end
2020-06-05T11:49:33 < ds2> most of the level translators will handle the situation 
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2020-06-05T12:07:19 < c10ud> do any of you have the tools to download https://wenku.baidu.com/view/1d30cd6b25c52cc58bd6be55.html?fr=search ?
2020-06-05T12:07:55 < c10ud> well they're three pages...I could just save them..
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2020-06-05T12:26:18 < Streaker> c10ud: does this link work for you?  https://wkretype.bdimg.com/retype/zoom/1d30cd6b25c52cc58bd6be55?pn=1&o=jpg_6&md5sum=52bb08e60e1ceebe8407a097f246d83b&sign=5becc17ea1&png=0-11514&jpg=0-204447
2020-06-05T12:26:38 < c10ud> yes but it's low quality as just viewing the picture
2020-06-05T12:27:08 < c10ud> anyway it's only one page that's interesting, I suppose I will just decode it from there
2020-06-05T12:32:05 < Cracki> their viewer only has the potato looking picture too
2020-06-05T12:32:22 < Cracki> maybe they scraped that from elsewhere themselves
2020-06-05T12:33:01 < Cracki> more googling? http://read.pudn.com/downloads114/sourcecode/others/477099/88e1111/88E1111-SFP-RefDsgn-Schematics-Rev-1-0new.pdf
2020-06-05T12:33:04 < Cracki> looks original
2020-06-05T12:33:20 < Cracki> ic has the same label, rest looks similar at least, cba to squint
2020-06-05T12:34:21 < c10ud> awesome cracki, thanks
2020-06-05T12:34:31 < Cracki> "88E1111-SFP-RefDsgn-Schematics-Rev-1-0new"
2020-06-05T12:34:54 < c10ud> well I tried, every result was just a link to baidu
2020-06-05T12:34:59 < c10ud> anyway, well done
2020-06-05T12:35:00 < Cracki> heh
2020-06-05T12:35:17 < Cracki> maybe google has learned that I want the pdf link
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2020-06-05T12:41:11 < Cracki> filetype:pdf site:read.pudn.com <your heart's desire>
2020-06-05T12:42:36 < Cracki> http://en.pudn.com/Download/dir.html
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2020-06-05T13:02:46 < jpa-> https://mobile.twitter.com/PaintYourDragon/status/1268680517672558592   why there is no sound in space
2020-06-05T13:05:30 < Cracki> <malfoy> pöttering!
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2020-06-05T13:18:37 < qyx> the FMC pins on the 216 ball BGA are scattered around the whole MCU
2020-06-05T13:24:31 < qyx> zyp: where do you place bypass caps? under the fpga?
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2020-06-05T13:37:18 < Steffanx> Lolol jpa- jpa- 
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2020-06-05T13:46:34 < karlp> qyx: pretty sure dongs (at least) has just run stm32flash (the serial protocol) from another sm32, no need for bmp or stlink/jlink stuff if you're just reflashing it?
2020-06-05T13:50:08 < qyx> looks reasonable https://i.imgur.com/E43B3qR.png
2020-06-05T14:09:14 < karlp> wat: https://spacechain.com/
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2020-06-05T14:41:07 < zyp> qyx, yes, right on the vias
2020-06-05T14:43:26 < zyp> qyx, https://bin.jvnv.net/file/CeAN1.png
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2020-06-05T14:44:06 < zyp> there's gonna be a few more in the upper section once I finish figuring out the serdes supplies
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2020-06-05T15:00:18 < zyp> hmm
2020-06-05T15:00:42 < zyp> ds2, I guess I could use the SN74LV1T32 since I already got that in the BOM
2020-06-05T15:08:40 < dongs> MDK Version 5.30 introduces support for Arm Cortex-M55 and CMSIS-Build, a continuous integration (CI) work flow for projects based on software components supplied in CMSIS-Pack format. It contains Arm Compiler 6.14, CMSIS 5.7.0, and MDK-Middleware 7.11.1.
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2020-06-05T15:19:19 < zyp> actually, for the FPGA I don't need to bother with that, it's already designed to avoid current injection on the standard IO banks (where I have the UARTs hooked up)
2020-06-05T15:25:08 < zyp> stm32 will always be powered, but even if it were not, you can't inject current into FT pins
2020-06-05T15:26:25 < zyp> I don't see a injected current spec in the FT4232H datasheet, but it also has 5V tolerant IO, which suggests they'll also be fine
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2020-06-05T16:17:36 < Laurenceb> >download the app, dammit
2020-06-05T16:17:41 < Laurenceb> >download the app, NOW
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2020-06-05T17:04:21 < Laurenceb> Looting is based because it gives you free shit and our ancestors did it
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2020-06-05T17:08:48 < Mangy_Dog> hay everybody, want to feel old? https://imgur.com/gallery/mBN1hLi
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2020-06-05T17:14:55 < Steffanx> How old are you mr Mangy_Dog?
2020-06-05T17:16:48 < zyp> old enough to remember walkmans, presumably
2020-06-05T17:16:50 < zyp> aren't you?
2020-06-05T17:17:50 < Laurenceb> tfw u can remember original gameboy
2020-06-05T17:17:56 < benishor> I don't think there're any youngsters here
2020-06-05T17:17:57 < zyp> also I don't really think that's an age thing, that looks more like somebody trying to fit a square peg in the round hole
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2020-06-05T17:20:12 < karlp> some walkmans were really non-obvious abotu getting the tape to fit though
2020-06-05T17:21:14 < zyp> but how many times do you need to fail fitting it with the tape facing inwards before you try with the tape facing outwards?
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2020-06-05T17:30:37 < benishor> zyp: depends on how much your brain is fried
2020-06-05T17:31:57 < jpa-> must be the generation that has never seen USB-A connectors
2020-06-05T17:35:05 < emeb> similar video w/ kids + dial phone.
2020-06-05T17:36:45 < benishor> how hard can that be?
2020-06-05T17:36:58 < benishor> it's not like there are many alternatives
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2020-06-05T17:41:01 < Mangy_Dog> 37
2020-06-05T17:41:05 < Mangy_Dog> going on 38
2020-06-05T17:41:11 < Mangy_Dog> and yes old enough to remember wlakmans
2020-06-05T17:41:14 < Mangy_Dog> walkmans
2020-06-05T17:42:13 < mawk> you're old Mangy_Dog 
2020-06-05T17:42:15 < mawk> omg
2020-06-05T17:43:01 < Mangy_Dog> put me in a coffin already
2020-06-05T17:43:01 < strata> yeah Mangy_Dog wtf you're older than me
2020-06-05T17:43:02 < Mangy_Dog> !
2020-06-05T17:43:18 < strata> i was supposed to be the oldest one here except for mawk he's 90
2020-06-05T17:43:25 < mawk> lol
2020-06-05T17:51:22 < Steffanx> Arent you dead yet, mawk?
2020-06-05T17:52:01 < Steffanx> Hows coronizzle?
2020-06-05T17:56:47  * emeb laughs a whippersnappers
2020-06-05T17:56:50 < emeb> at
2020-06-05T17:56:56 < englishman> can't wait for the generation that has never seen microusb
2020-06-05T17:57:32 < emeb> keep going like we are and there's likely to be a generation that's never seen electricity.
2020-06-05T18:03:18 < englishman> that's very negative
2020-06-05T18:03:46 < englishman> pessimism reduces your testosterone levels
2020-06-05T18:04:06 < englishman> and shortens your lifespan
2020-06-05T18:04:18 < mawk> and your balls shrink
2020-06-05T18:04:38 < emeb> correlation is not causation
2020-06-05T18:05:09 < emeb> does pessimisim cause micro-orchia or vice-versa?
2020-06-05T18:05:20 < mawk> orchids are nice
2020-06-05T18:05:21 < englishman> yes
2020-06-05T18:05:26 < mawk> I'm alive Steffanx 
2020-06-05T18:05:30 < mawk> I'm just coughing
2020-06-05T18:06:10 < BrainDamage> also, it can exists c that causes both a and b
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2020-06-05T18:11:43 < Laurenceb> try telling that to babbyshake team
2020-06-05T18:13:26 < Laurenceb> oh yeah
2020-06-05T18:13:30 < Laurenceb> https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/live/world-52931222
2020-06-05T18:13:32 < Laurenceb> party tiem
2020-06-05T18:15:24 < Laurenceb> usa still number 1
2020-06-05T18:17:57 < emeb> gotta be good at something
2020-06-05T18:18:08 < Laurenceb> ikr
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2020-06-05T19:43:39 < qyx> karlp: it should be a generic debug provbe/flasher, not just for stm32 target
2020-06-05T19:43:51 < strata> https://learn.adafruit.com/watchmen-sister-night-circuitpython-neopixel-goggles?view=all
2020-06-05T19:44:07 < qyx> and able to resolve/debug hardfaulted etc. targets
2020-06-05T19:44:12 < strata> because nothing says AIDSfruit Black Lives Matter like destroying your community's small businesses wearing neopixel goggles
2020-06-05T19:46:24 < Laurenceb> lol
2020-06-05T19:48:24 < Laurenceb> lol drama
2020-06-05T19:48:25 < Laurenceb> https://www.space.com/trump-make-space-great-again-campaign-ad-petition.html
2020-06-05T19:52:49 < karlp> qyx: oh, you want debug too? then yeah, bmp is probably a viable choice.
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2020-06-05T20:00:27 < Mangy_Dog> can anyone here think of any reflow solder profiles that would peak above 255c?  i regularly go much higher than that on my iron and hot air gun but for a reflow oven?
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2020-06-05T20:35:19 < karlp> stop saving bytes of ram you lunatic
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2020-06-05T20:48:16 < PaulFertser> lol, I didn't realise what that question implies
2020-06-05T20:48:18 < jpa-> heh, i wonder how i missed that
2020-06-05T20:48:29 < jpa-> i thought "how very specific max temperature for the oven"
2020-06-05T20:48:53 < jpa-> maybe the chinese fake stm32f103 only has 8-bit registers
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2020-06-05T21:07:56 < zyp> qyx, just came across this: https://www.crowdsupply.com/sid-price/ctxlink
2020-06-05T21:08:11 < zyp> somebody put wifi on a bmp
2020-06-05T21:09:39 < Steffanx> Lol
2020-06-05T21:10:12 < zyp> it's not a bad idea, builtin gdbserver should work just as well over tcp as over acm
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2020-06-05T21:21:21 < emeb_mac> saw that this morning. interesting idea
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2020-06-05T21:27:02 < qyx> zyp: great, one step further and it has gprs with vpn
2020-06-05T21:27:55 < kakimir> hello sensuals
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2020-06-05T21:28:52 < kakimir> how is trolling?
2020-06-05T21:31:52 < zyp> kakimir, how is ecp5ing?
2020-06-05T21:32:23 < kakimir> I just came back from a month on grass fields doing farm simulator IRL version
2020-06-05T21:32:55 < zyp> fun fun
2020-06-05T21:32:59 < kakimir> salaries are piling up in my bank account
2020-06-05T21:33:17 < kakimir> I could buy some shit now
2020-06-05T21:33:48 < zyp> hmm
2020-06-05T21:33:59 < kakimir> I maybe start planning buying tonight
2020-06-05T21:34:18 < kakimir> ecp5versa and BOM for my flashnandparallelemulator
2020-06-05T21:34:24 < Steffanx> Moneyed westerner now?
2020-06-05T21:35:56 < zyp> looking at STPMIC1 datasheet again, BUCK3 is only rated for 500mA
2020-06-05T21:37:14 < zyp> I was meaning to use that for the 3.3V rail, but if I'm also gonna use the 3.3V rail to feed LDOs I'm not sure that'd be enough
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2020-06-05T21:38:20 < kakimir> Steffanx: yes, In bad way
2020-06-05T21:38:36 < kakimir> not really moneyed but feeling like it
2020-06-05T21:39:04 < Mangy_Dog> im having a newbie problems with trying to pass serial commands from console, through arduino to a device attached to the arduino
2020-06-05T21:39:09 < kakimir> when your net worth is 1M ya moneyed
2020-06-05T21:39:14 < Mangy_Dog> my commands im sending are being sent... fractured
2020-06-05T21:39:19 < zyp> BUCK1 and 2 can't do 3.3V
2020-06-05T21:39:53 < zyp> BUCK4 can, but I need that to make 1.2V for the crosspoint switch
2020-06-05T21:39:55 < Mangy_Dog> how do i identify a /n? 
2020-06-05T21:40:36 < zyp> Mangy_Dog, newlines on serial are usually sent as CRLF
2020-06-05T21:40:56 < kakimir> your terminal has option usually
2020-06-05T21:40:58 < zyp> so if you're only looking at the LF, you might get an unintentional CR as part of your command
2020-06-05T21:41:21 < Mangy_Dog> hmm
2020-06-05T21:41:41 < Mangy_Dog> its the monitor in eclipse/sloeber
2020-06-05T21:41:51 < zyp> kakimir, better to fix the parser to handle CR than to remember changing the terminal settings every fucking time
2020-06-05T21:42:33 < Mangy_Dog> though i found the options for the cr pass through
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2020-06-05T21:44:09 < Mangy_Dog> https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/695271473308237985/718535631109619772/unknown.png
2020-06-05T21:44:18 < Mangy_Dog> its meant to be a really simple pass through
2020-06-05T21:44:38 < Mangy_Dog> but im struggling to figure out hwo to fix this fracturing
2020-06-05T21:44:59 < Mangy_Dog> or even why the available is hitting 0 when there should still be data in the buffer
2020-06-05T21:45:03 < Mangy_Dog> adding delays didnt seem to work
2020-06-05T21:51:55 < Thorn> live with Bil Herd https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_Pxw3c13Nkk
2020-06-05T21:52:44 < kakimir> zyp: true
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2020-06-05T22:37:48 < qyx> zyp: and do you do ground pours on top/bottom layers?
2020-06-05T22:38:54 < Laurenceb> I've a good mind to level up
2020-06-05T22:40:27 < Laurenceb> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x2klLy8r8Ro
2020-06-05T22:45:45 < zyp> qyx, on 4L? varies
2020-06-05T22:49:09 < zyp> if you already have a dedicated ground plane layer, ground pours aren't really useful for signal integrity, but they might help with power dissipation, and it's recommended to avoid etching huge areas
2020-06-05T22:50:20 < zyp> but IME the latter doesn't seem to be such a big deal in practice, so usually I don't bother with a full board pour
2020-06-05T22:50:35 < zyp> instead I do stuff like a ground pour island around the power regulator
2020-06-05T22:51:50 < zyp> e.g. like this: https://bin.jvnv.net/file/c62Yj.png
2020-06-05T22:53:26 < zyp> https://bin.jvnv.net/file/r1ChW.JPG <- or this
2020-06-05T22:55:03 < jpa-> does altium 3d view simulate depth-of-field and dust on the board, or is that a photo? ;)
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2020-06-05T22:55:46 < zyp> that is a photo
2020-06-05T22:56:00 < zyp> here's the altium view: https://bin.jvnv.net/file/PogIK.png
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2020-06-05T23:01:52 < qyx> I don't like it https://i.imgur.com/JQQud9w.png
2020-06-05T23:02:16 < zyp> yeah, don't do that
2020-06-05T23:02:38 < qyx> I would keep the center island though
2020-06-05T23:02:45 < jpa-> that's the recipe to get your balls poorly attached
2020-06-05T23:02:47 < zyp> I'd put a polygon cutout around the BGA if pouring the rest of the board
2020-06-05T23:03:13 < zyp> jpa-, yeah
2020-06-05T23:03:22 < qyx> ok so I should remove the island too
2020-06-05T23:03:27 < zyp> I'd avoid having anything more than one trace connecting to each ball
2020-06-05T23:03:44 < jpa-> you can have island, but have it smaller and only a single trace from each ball to it
2020-06-05T23:04:02 < zyp> better to route each ground to a dedicated via into the power plane
2020-06-05T23:05:58 < zyp> https://bin.jvnv.net/file/Kn4Vc.png
2020-06-05T23:06:05 < zyp> that's how my grounds are done
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2020-06-05T23:10:33 < qyx> should be better https://i.imgur.com/kNAEdMk.png
2020-06-05T23:11:38 < zyp> why are the directions all over the place?
2020-06-05T23:12:21 < qyx> to avoid large islands in gnd&vdd layers
2020-06-05T23:12:41 < qyx> https://i.imgur.com/PceeDu4.png
2020-06-05T23:12:57 < zyp> oh, what spec are you doing this with?
2020-06-05T23:13:27 < qyx> 0.8 pitch, 0.15/0.15 trace/clearance, 0.2/0.45 via
2020-06-05T23:13:30 < qyx> for jlcpcb
2020-06-05T23:13:32 < zyp> remember that if the planes don't fit between two vias, neither does the signal traces when you start fanning them out
2020-06-05T23:13:37 < jpa-> how do you manage to get balls between the vias on top layer, but not manage to get ground pour between them in middle layer? worse specs there?
2020-06-05T23:14:06 < qyx> interesting easoning
2020-06-05T23:14:18 < zyp> jpa-, balls fit diagonally, but traces don't fit between vias side by side
2020-06-05T23:15:10 < jpa-> zyp: yeah, i guess i was thinking more of fan-out but didn't express it as well as you did
2020-06-05T23:15:13 < zyp> qyx, why are you going with bga anyway? isn't that part available in qfp/qfn, or are they just too big area wise?
2020-06-05T23:15:28 < qyx> heh https://i.imgur.com/NYpPv6v.png
2020-06-05T23:15:47 < qyx> zyp: to try it, I must start with something
2020-06-05T23:15:54 < qyx> so bga stm32, bga sdram, bga nor flash
2020-06-05T23:16:12 < zyp> ah, so just bga for the heck of it?
2020-06-05T23:16:25 < zyp> like my old lpc43 board
2020-06-05T23:16:35 < qyx> yes
2020-06-05T23:16:49 < zyp> does that mean you won't be using a lot of IO?
2020-06-05T23:17:09 < zyp> if so, you're probably okay with those specs
2020-06-05T23:17:20 < qyx> I am not, because balls are 0.4mm dia
2020-06-05T23:17:30 < qyx> 0.4 + 3*0.15 = 0.85
2020-06-05T23:17:52 < qyx> so I need to make them a bit smaller
2020-06-05T23:18:09 < zyp> huh? jlcpcb is 5/5 though?
2020-06-05T23:18:36 < zyp> 0.4 + 3*0.127 = 0.781
2020-06-05T23:19:07 < qyx> regarding the IO count, 2x 16Mx16 sdram, spi nor, CAN, I2C, probably ethernet, some LEDs, 2x cortex debug connector
2020-06-05T23:19:14 < qyx> you are right
2020-06-05T23:19:41 < zyp> my bga pads are also 0.4mm, using 5/5 for routing and 0.2/0.4 vias
2020-06-05T23:21:53 < strata> dongs, https://twitter.com/paintyourdragon/status/1268680517672558592
2020-06-05T23:22:06 < strata> and all you spacex bootlickers ^
2020-06-05T23:22:27 < strata> except dongs. he'll get the joke
2020-06-05T23:22:43 < Thorn> zyp what's your resulting trace impedance for ddr3?
2020-06-05T23:26:04 < qyx> zyp: are you using <=0402 under the fpga?
2020-06-05T23:26:42 < Thorn> looks like 53Ω single ended
2020-06-05T23:27:23 < Thorn> qyx afaik if you want to fit caps between pairs of 0.8mm vias you have to use 0402 or smaller
2020-06-05T23:28:05 < Thorn> https://www.telegraph.co.uk/global-health/science-and-disease/bald-men-higher-risk-severe-case-covid-19-research-finds/
2020-06-05T23:29:53 < Mangy_Dog> as if being bald wasnt bad enough already :(
2020-06-05T23:30:14 < Mangy_Dog> also sorted out my serial passthrough https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/538814618106331139/718561833279160380/unknown.png
2020-06-05T23:30:25 < Mangy_Dog> ive not dont much serial comms before
2020-06-05T23:31:15 < Mangy_Dog> done
2020-06-05T23:32:42 < zyp> qyx, yes
2020-06-05T23:32:46 < zyp> Thorn, probably something like that
2020-06-05T23:33:03 < Thorn> they have only one stackup now
2020-06-05T23:33:24 < Thorn> had 2 for 6 layer boards before but the one that disappeared was worse impedance wise
2020-06-05T23:33:29 < zyp> well, yeah, but the 0.1 one is more suitable than the 0.2 one anyway
2020-06-05T23:33:37 < zyp> exactly
2020-06-05T23:34:26 < Thorn> so how the fuck do I design a board for zynq which wants 40Ω?
2020-06-05T23:34:47 < Thorn> that makes traces waaay too wide with this stackup
2020-06-05T23:34:52 < zyp> say fuck it and do 5/5 anyway
2020-06-05T23:35:38 < Thorn> I've seen someone complain in telegram about their zynq board, lunix is very unstable and they're looking for an alternate os lol
2020-06-05T23:35:45 < zyp> doesn't seem to be super important, guidelines I've seen are like «you can do this or you can do that»
2020-06-05T23:35:52 < Thorn> with quizzed they admitted they had memory errors
2020-06-05T23:36:01 < zyp> heh
2020-06-05T23:36:17 < zyp> well, yeah, I'm looking forward to see how well my shit is working
2020-06-05T23:37:17 < zyp> but I'm sure it's not the worst DDR3 design anybody have done :p
2020-06-05T23:39:27 < ds2> use a stackup with smaller distances to ground
2020-06-05T23:39:48 < zyp> ds2, jlcpcb only offers 0.1mm
2020-06-05T23:39:54 < ds2> a lot of the cheap 4L stackups don't work for impedence control lines i fyou want reasonable dimensions
2020-06-05T23:40:15 < ds2> yes, I went through that looking for stuff suitable for USB a while ago
2020-06-05T23:40:17 < zyp> also true, 0.1 is one of the better ones
2020-06-05T23:40:24 < Thorn> ds2 0.1mm is probably the smallest technically possible, other fabs offer like 0.125mm minimum
2020-06-05T23:40:27 < ds2> very few cheap venders have a decent stackup
2020-06-05T23:40:58 < ds2> wasn't there some other trick where you have a side ground too?
2020-06-05T23:41:17 < zyp> that sounds hard to get right with length matching and all
2020-06-05T23:41:29 < ds2> yes, major PITA
2020-06-05T23:41:31 < Thorn> there's way too many traces way too closely spaced for that
2020-06-05T23:41:46 < zyp> probably easier to go stripline and route on inner layers at that point
2020-06-05T23:41:47 < Thorn> in a ddr3 interface
2020-06-05T23:41:58 < zyp> yeah
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2020-06-05T23:42:01 < ds2> easier to annotate schematics with - make xx ohm impedence, match within and hand it off to the layout guy :D
2020-06-05T23:42:51 < ds2> wonder it helps if you bury it in the middle layers of a 6L board
2020-06-05T23:42:54 < BrainDamage> this is like the error "please contact the system admin"
2020-06-05T23:42:56 < ds2> top and bottom gnd
2020-06-05T23:43:00 < BrainDamage> except when you are
2020-06-05T23:43:43 < zyp> at one of my former employers, I got a project to rework some shit on an 8L board, no changes to the memory though
2020-06-05T23:44:19 < ds2> there is also the other option of non FR4
2020-06-05T23:44:20 < zyp> but I remember we just sent it off to the fab with a note to «make layer 3 xx impedance, make layer 5 yy impedance» and so on
2020-06-05T23:45:04 < zyp> so I think the signals were just routed with some width, and instead had stackup adjusted to match
2020-06-05T23:45:31 < ds2> all this is bring back bad memories of talks on telegraphers equation and moving electrons from infinite :(
2020-06-05T23:46:07 < zyp> I'm also not sure how well it worked, it was the last project I did at that place, so I left right after sending off the design, before boards came back
2020-06-05T23:46:27 < ds2> before purchasing can ask you to confirm the charges? ;)
2020-06-05T23:47:08 < zyp> idk, probably
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2020-06-06T00:35:20 < qyx> there are no series termination resistors on SDRAM on the F746 disco
2020-06-06T00:39:07 < zyp> is that normally needed?
2020-06-06T00:40:04 < qyx> probably not, I am not much into high speed
2020-06-06T00:40:38 < qyx> https://i.imgur.com/R9otbDX.png
2020-06-06T00:40:44 < qyx> the first one
2020-06-06T00:41:02 < qyx> now I need to find out how to connect another one for D16-D31
2020-06-06T00:41:28 < zyp> which memory type is this?
2020-06-06T00:41:37 < qyx> sdram, 167MHz
2020-06-06T00:41:46 < zyp> so SDR, not DDR?
2020-06-06T00:41:53 < qyx> yes, SDR
2020-06-06T00:42:23 < qyx> looks like it should simply be wired in parallel
2020-06-06T00:42:29 < zyp> ah, probably not that picky then
2020-06-06T00:43:41 < zyp> on the other hand, it doesn't have the tricks that newer kinds have
2020-06-06T00:44:38 < zyp> e.g. DDR3 has this «read/write levelling» feature where the timing of each byte lane wrt. the clock can be adjusted
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2020-06-06T00:46:10 < kakimir> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gw9kwsAgLRo :o
2020-06-06T00:46:24 < zyp> it allows the command/address lines to be routed in a «fly by topology» instead of a length matched tree, since each byte lane can be individually tuned to how long the command/addr signals are to that chip
2020-06-06T00:47:54 < qyx> ok, I cannot do fanout because of those caps
2020-06-06T00:49:29 < zyp> place the caps in the middle, not as far out as to get in the way of signals
2020-06-06T01:06:02 < ds2> 0.4mm hand solder joints were good! Radar works!
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2020-06-06T01:11:20 < Cracki> rad!
2020-06-06T01:36:16 < ds2> hmm radar is wierd 
2020-06-06T02:07:40 < Streaker> because of the missing finger?
2020-06-06T02:11:23 < qyx> not going to be easy https://i.imgur.com/KjCfQde.png
2020-06-06T02:13:07 < Streaker> not that difficult: https://www.tayloredge.com/museum/mymuseum/electronics/memory2.jpg
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2020-06-06T02:22:39 < Cracki> the "boring company" approach to pcbs, just add another dimension
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2020-06-06T02:23:42 < strata> the elon-fanboi approach to bootlicking, just add another boot
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2020-06-06T03:08:19 < qyx> I should have started with a single DRAM first
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2020-06-06T04:28:22 < Laurenceb> >Shawyer certainly doesn't keep his (claimed) work or (imagined?) partners secret. Did you watch his recent talk at UCL (or wherever it actually was because of covid)? He claimed, for example, that he made a proposal to Shell for using EM drive for supertanker propulsion, but Shell "got a fright" and withdrew funding when they realised that a working EM drive would collapse marine fuel market. 
2020-06-06T04:28:25 < Laurenceb> my sides
2020-06-06T04:28:35 < Laurenceb> my emdrive resonant cavity sides
2020-06-06T04:29:51 < Laurenceb> >I can’t blame Scheuer for what he does. Emdrive is a flag on a hill. Shows a place to collect soldiers before and during the battle. And Scheuer himself - he is Prometheus, who lit a torch of people with new ideas and hopes. And yet, Drive is a product (service) that requires implementation, installation and an advertising budget. This budget ... well, it’s somehow more than the costs of large companies that bring new products to the 
2020-06-06T04:29:52 < Laurenceb> market (sneakers, cars ..)
2020-06-06T04:35:01 < specing> lol
2020-06-06T04:52:01 < Thorn> https://gut.bmj.com/content/early/2020/06/04/gutjnl-2020-321852
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2020-06-06T05:46:02 < mawk> you don't believe in the power of the almighty EMDRIVE Laurenceb ?
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2020-06-06T05:47:49 < mawk> this is not a double blind study Thorn 
2020-06-06T05:50:52 < Thorn> >Address/control are source terminated only, by FPGA driver impedance.
2020-06-06T05:51:03 < Thorn> second time I come across this
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2020-06-06T08:13:00 < Cracki> retard raven reeeing in the backyard again
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2020-06-06T10:02:43 < zyp> hmm, been looking a bit more at PMICs, MPM54304 is starting to look more and more attractive
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2020-06-06T11:42:22 < chipant> I have multiple cases in my app that it needs to make comparisons between RTC time and some arbitrary time set by user or so. Currently I am making simple time comparison routine by converting all the time into seconds and comparing. Not sure whether this one is the best practice or not. Here is the routine to compare time : https://pastebin.com/9q6aiTQi. I would appreciate the suggestion to make it even better if possible. 
2020-06-06T11:46:51 < effractur> how does the rtc store its time?
2020-06-06T11:47:28 < effractur> and do you need to take daylight saving into account?
2020-06-06T11:47:37 < effractur> or leapseconds etc
2020-06-06T11:48:09 < zyp> depends which RTC you got, newer stm32s store BCD counters
2020-06-06T11:48:13 < zyp> or some shit like that
2020-06-06T11:49:38 < zyp> chipant, you might want to use standard library functions for converting, e.g. mktime() to convert from RTC and gmtime() to convert back
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2020-06-06T11:53:24 < chipant_> effractur, RTC data is also somewhat similar ... RTC data structure from STM HAL : https://pastebin.com/hykmZM6z 
2020-06-06T11:54:13 < chipant_> I do not need daylight or leap seconds however.
2020-06-06T11:54:59 < PaulFertser> You have libc functions for conversion. They take care of everything needed. I'd run RTC in plain UTC and would convert with library functions using the relevant timezone. Then the difference is obvious.
2020-06-06T11:55:20 < PaulFertser> That would ignore leap seconds of course.
2020-06-06T11:56:55 < chipant_> That means its better to convert the time values into libc time variables and then compare ... right ?
2020-06-06T11:57:11 < zyp> use mktime() to get seconds and then compare, yes
2020-06-06T11:57:18 < jpa-> if you want to use libc, yeah
2020-06-06T11:57:53 < jpa-> but that won't really do the comparison of time-of-day directly either, which your function does
2020-06-06T11:58:19 < zyp> jpa-, generally easier to use libc than to roll your own calendar handling if you need to support comparisons longer than 24 hours
2020-06-06T11:58:50 < jpa-> your function seems fine to me, though i'd make     int seconds1 = 60 * 60 ...;  and int seconds2 = 60 * 60 ...;  at top to avoid repeated code
2020-06-06T11:59:18 < jpa-> zyp: yeah, if that is what is needed
2020-06-06T11:59:45 < jpa-> but if it is really more of alarm clock type of thing that only compares time of day, libc is not of much help
2020-06-06T12:00:23 < zyp> true
2020-06-06T12:00:38 < zyp> I mean, you could just use mktime() without the date
2020-06-06T12:01:12 < zyp> but not much point
2020-06-06T12:01:17 < chipant_> got it .... yes it is alarm clock type of thing ... compare RTC time and do something ... time won't be longer than 24Hrs and will be on 24Hr format all the time.
2020-06-06T12:01:50 < jpa-> http://paste.dy.fi/Bgd/plain   looks like i have been using a similar function
2020-06-06T12:02:19 < zyp> my preferred way of dealing with RTCs like that is to just use the RTC for backup, and use a plain timer for runtime calculations
2020-06-06T12:02:32 < jpa-> the overflow logic in mine is better if you want to have alarm at 00:00:00
2020-06-06T12:02:38 < zyp> then just initialize the plain timer from RTC after startup
2020-06-06T12:06:58 < jpa-> actually even my function fails around 00:00:00 :P
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2020-06-06T12:13:17 < chipant_> Seems like I am going with my own routing for diff. Thank you very much zyp, jpa-, PaulFertser and effractur :) 
2020-06-06T12:20:02 < Cracki> why do they implement RTC to have "human readable" format instead of it just being a unix timestamp
2020-06-06T12:22:10 < Cracki> all that calendar stuff could be in code instead of in hw
2020-06-06T12:23:27 < Cracki> oh it does seem to support timestamps in some way. at least my f3 RM says so
2020-06-06T12:24:19 < jpa-> there are different types of RTC in STM32
2020-06-06T12:24:45 < jpa-> and one is not clearly better than the other; after all, multiplications are a lot cheaper than division
2020-06-06T12:25:03 < Cracki> oh, they call it timestamp but it's still the human formatted data
2020-06-06T12:26:42 < Cracki> hm, I see no convenience functions in my HAL to get a unix timestamp without mktime
2020-06-06T12:26:44 < PaulFertser> stm32f1 had proper counter
2020-06-06T12:26:50 < Cracki> (explicit)
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2020-06-06T12:27:11 < PaulFertser> The latter families switched to the stupid split-up scheme.
2020-06-06T12:27:35 < Cracki> it seems to support wakeup on any combination of calendar fields matching
2020-06-06T12:27:38 < PaulFertser> Probably to make it more appealing to a typical embedded software developer?
2020-06-06T12:27:47 < Cracki> not sure how that's more appealing
2020-06-06T12:28:02 < PaulFertser> Hardware guys are weird
2020-06-06T12:28:05 < Cracki> as long as I have C library time functions, I can calculate
2020-06-06T12:28:36 < Cracki> maybe they got an intern once who thought it's a good idea
2020-06-06T12:33:18 < Cracki> raven says reee
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2020-06-06T13:41:59 < Cracki> dat sound https://twitter.com/iammix24/status/1268998017279037441
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2020-06-06T15:09:42 < qyx> 7/win 7
2020-06-06T15:21:46 < Steffanx> Ty
2020-06-06T15:23:25 < qyx> englishman: finally TTN works
2020-06-06T15:24:00 < qyx> I had to mount the antenna outdoors raised a bit above ground
2020-06-06T15:24:30 < qyx> only 1 GW, I am curious if the others are functional
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2020-06-06T15:31:47 < Cracki> >1 GW
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2020-06-06T15:46:42 < englishman> thats strange qyx considering how well it worked before
2020-06-06T15:47:25 < englishman> with all the working from home chat is making a comeback
2020-06-06T15:47:37 < englishman> it is quite the thrill to see all these old people setting up xmpp on pidgin
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2020-06-06T17:04:49 < qyx> englishman: it worked with a commercial lorawan operator, not with ttn
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2020-06-06T17:48:47 < Steffanx> You shouldnt be using TTN which is co-founded by an dutch asshole. :P
2020-06-06T17:48:51 < Steffanx> *a
2020-06-06T17:50:44 < zyp> Steffanx, did you co-found TTN?
2020-06-06T17:50:52 < Steffanx> no, im another arsehole.
2020-06-06T17:51:33 < strata> the other co-founder?
2020-06-06T17:55:18 < Steffanx> The guy accepted some project/job, stopped working on it half way through and then just vanished. I happen to know since i work for the company that also worked on a part of the same project. He did make some of the awful design choices we had to deal with later on.
2020-06-06T17:57:10 < Steffanx> but yeah it was ages ago, maybe he's awesome now.
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2020-06-06T18:11:31 < zyp> what's typical current consumption of a microsd?
2020-06-06T18:12:18 < qyx> idling 70uA-250uA, active up to a couple of 100s mA
2020-06-06T18:12:35 < qyx> google for microsd idle current and you will find many graphs
2020-06-06T18:13:10 < zyp> I'm doing a power budget now
2020-06-06T18:13:16 < qyx> https://edwardmallon.files.wordpress.com/2017/05/identicalopensavecloseevents.jpg
2020-06-06T18:13:20 < qyx> this for example
2020-06-06T18:14:10 < zyp> it's not really important with an accurate number, microsd goes on the 3.3V rail where I should have lots of headroom anyway
2020-06-06T18:14:15 < zyp> but I still need a number
2020-06-06T18:14:28 < qyx> I would use 1mA idle, 100mA active
2020-06-06T18:14:51 < qyx> I usually use 300-500mA when doing power calculations
2020-06-06T18:15:26 < zyp> how much would you estimate for a DDR3 SODIMM? :)
2020-06-06T18:16:07 < zyp> I've currently got 2000mA on VDD and ±600mA on VTT
2020-06-06T18:16:58 < zyp> (which is way more than STPMIC1 can do, so I've ruled that out and put in a TPS51200 for VTT/VREF)
2020-06-06T18:19:19 < qyx> I am not an universal power consumption excel spreadsheet
2020-06-06T18:19:39 < qyx> my sdram consumes 5mA when in self-refresh
2020-06-06T18:19:56 < qyx> but this will not help you
2020-06-06T18:20:08 < zyp> yeah, budgeting needs worst case consumption
2020-06-06T18:22:25 < qyx> offtopic, I should check 6L on jlcpcb
2020-06-06T18:22:47 < zyp> growing out of 4L already?
2020-06-06T18:23:35 < qyx> not yet, switched to push&shove router
2020-06-06T18:26:34 < zyp> I'm tempted to put in a shunt on each supply rail with an INA230
2020-06-06T18:27:24 < zyp> should make it easier to get some real world consumption numbers, which may be useful for any future derivates of the current design
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2020-06-06T19:26:33 < aandrew> Lolling at rev blog guy getting cancelled on Twitter
2020-06-06T19:27:00 < aandrew> eevblog I mean, ducking autocorrect 
2020-06-06T19:27:10 < aandrew> Arrrgh 
2020-06-06T19:27:12 < englishman> was his shit deleted?
2020-06-06T19:27:16 < englishman> i saw there was some drama
2020-06-06T19:28:04 < aandrew> Ugh I have this tablet set up specifically to let through fucking and fuck why did it fucking autocorrect
2020-06-06T19:28:57 < aandrew> Not yet but it’s just a matter of time
2020-06-06T19:28:58 < karlp> why did he get deleted?
2020-06-06T19:29:13 < aandrew> Because he calls transistors trannies
2020-06-06T19:29:19 < englishman> lol
2020-06-06T19:29:39 < englishman> what about that thing in your car that shifts gears
2020-06-06T19:29:51 < aandrew> And posted “rubber feet matter” on a pic of a soldering iron sitting in glass at an extreme angle
2020-06-06T19:30:18 < aandrew> I don’t much care for him but that’s ridiculous
2020-06-06T19:34:19 < karlp> he did that just now?
2020-06-06T19:34:33 < karlp> poor timing for a poor joke
2020-06-06T19:34:55 < englishman> still maybe the funniest joke hes ever made
2020-06-06T19:35:03 < englishman> and the timing is perfect
2020-06-06T19:35:16 < karlp> well, if it's funny, then it's only because of the timing...
2020-06-06T19:35:29 < karlp> Thorn: your anti histamine study was of _ten_ patients
2020-06-06T19:35:31 < englishman> well timing is everything
2020-06-06T19:35:40 < englishman> imagine making a twin tower joke on september 10
2020-06-06T19:35:44 < englishman> not funny at all.
2020-06-06T19:35:49 < englishman> the very next day? hilarious
2020-06-06T19:46:35 < sync> aandrew: pffft
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2020-06-06T19:57:22 < Steffanx> lolol englishman.
2020-06-06T19:57:35 < Steffanx> ive got to remember that one :)
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2020-06-06T21:25:13 < zyp> so bucks tend to be less efficient the larger the drop is, but what's the rule of thumb for chaining bucks?
2020-06-06T21:25:13 < Laurenceb> With the police gone we can finally achieve the needed insectionality to finally build an inclusive and comprehensive community based around mutual respect and community care, a society where all voices, including blacx and latinx folx are heard, which will allow us to grow and rid us of the institutional racism and violence
2020-06-06T21:25:55 < zyp> if I've got 12V and need 1.2V, which would be more efficient of 12V -> 5V -> 1.2V or directly 12V -> 1.2V?
2020-06-06T21:26:23 < zyp> I also need 5V, so I need two bucks either way
2020-06-06T21:29:32 < specing> zyp: a semi-isolated stepdown?
2020-06-06T21:29:39 < specing> directly from 12 to 1.2
2020-06-06T21:29:48 < zyp> just plain bucks
2020-06-06T21:29:48 < jpa-> resistive losses in the buck converters will be higher in first case, as it goes through two inductors
2020-06-06T21:29:51 < specing> Look how the CPU supplies are done, those are the same range and voltages
2020-06-06T21:30:13 < jpa-> (and two transistors)
2020-06-06T21:30:30 < jpa-> specing: "the cpu supplies"? you mean ATX + motherboards?
2020-06-06T21:30:40 < specing> jpa-: no, the cpu supplies
2020-06-06T21:30:47 < specing> those are on the motherboard, near the CPU
2020-06-06T21:30:52 < zyp> specing, yeah, I believe they are single stage multiphase
2020-06-06T21:31:01 < specing> yes
2020-06-06T21:31:02 < zyp> 12V directly to core
2020-06-06T21:31:08 < specing> lol
2020-06-06T21:31:16 < zyp> I don't need that much power though :)
2020-06-06T21:31:30 < specing> How much do you need
2020-06-06T21:31:37 < zyp> wish I knew :)
2020-06-06T21:31:42 < specing> Lol
2020-06-06T21:32:01 < jpa-> it's not like 12V->1.2V buck is difficult to do, but it is an interesting question which is better arrangement
2020-06-06T21:33:22 < zyp> I've spent a bunch of time digging through PMICs and stuff the past couple of days and I'm leaning more and more towards a MPM54304 or two
2020-06-06T21:33:35 < zyp> just for simplicity
2020-06-06T21:35:42 < jpa-> looks like a nice chip, even if somewhat expensive
2020-06-06T21:36:38 < jpa-> funny that one can put 3A through just two LGA-33 pins
2020-06-06T21:36:53 < zyp> sure, but other PMICs easily get just as expensive, unless you get something tailored for some chinasoc, and they tend to be pretty tailored for a different voltage combination than what I need
2020-06-06T21:37:24 < jpa-> yeah, and the board area & the number of different components for pick and place builds up also
2020-06-06T21:38:08 < zyp> the biggest disadvantage at the moment is that it doesn't include any programmable LDOs
2020-06-06T21:39:14 < zyp> and there's apparently pretty much no chips on the market that contains only i2c-programmable LDOs without any switching regs or other unnecessary shit as well
2020-06-06T21:40:02 < strata> i2c gpio expander into enable pins == poor man's i2c-programmable LDOs!
2020-06-06T21:40:18 < zyp> yeah, this is first hit if you google i2c ldo: http://www.ti.com/lit/an/sbva035a/sbva035a.pdf
2020-06-06T21:40:32 < jpa-> DAC to LDO => very poor man's programmable LDO
2020-06-06T21:44:34 < jpa-> SLG46583 has 600mA I2C programmable LDO for $0.50; though maximum input voltage of 5.5V only
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2020-06-06T21:45:37 < zyp> that's not a problem
2020-06-06T21:45:57 < zyp> huh, interesting
2020-06-06T21:49:23 < zyp> also 2x300mA and 4x150mA options
2020-06-06T21:52:32 < zyp> jpa-, have you used greenpak for anything?
2020-06-06T21:53:10 < jpa-> i have used SLG46140 for some simple stuff & played around with it a bit
2020-06-06T21:54:19 < jpa-> it's nice for those cases where you need just a couple of logic gates, even though the aspect of having a yet another programmable device on board is sometimes annoying - but i guess that is less of a hassle if there is a main MCU that can program it by I2C
2020-06-06T21:54:43 < qyx> i2c is meh
2020-06-06T21:54:52 < qyx> too many things to go wrong
2020-06-06T21:55:42 < zyp> jpa-, depends how the bootstrapping process works
2020-06-06T21:56:14 < jpa-> oh, and a word of warning: the greenpak I2C takes up a whole block of 16 I2C addresses
2020-06-06T21:56:30 < zyp> fun
2020-06-06T21:57:01 < zyp> is it possible to have more than one greenpak on a board?
2020-06-06T21:57:06 < zyp> sorry
2020-06-06T21:57:09 < zyp> on the same bus, I mean
2020-06-06T21:57:44 < jpa-> i don't think so
2020-06-06T21:58:44 < zyp> okay, so at most four LDOs going that route
2020-06-06T22:00:54 < zyp> hmm
2020-06-06T22:02:05 < zyp> okay, so it's possible to just leave the NVM unprogrammed and feed it a blob over I2C at startup?
2020-06-06T22:02:30 < zyp> which means that that can be embedded in the mcu firmware that does power management anyway
2020-06-06T22:02:35 < jpa-> yeah, at least if i understand correctly - i haven't actually used it that way
2020-06-06T22:03:54 < zyp> https://www.dialog-semiconductor.com/sites/default/files/slg46580_82_83r106_10252019.pdf <- judging by 21.2, you can configure the first four bits of the address
2020-06-06T22:04:14 < jpa-> yeah, looks like you can change I2C address in register 1864:1867  - and now it seems it actually doesn't take up a block of addresses
2020-06-06T22:04:22 < jpa-> the bottom three bits are just always 000
2020-06-06T22:04:33 < zyp> ah
2020-06-06T22:04:44 < jpa-> and the register list is by bit numbers and not byte numbers, that's how it goes up to 2048 with only 8 bit address
2020-06-06T22:05:05 < zyp> oh, haha
2020-06-06T22:06:00 < jpa-> but if you can only configure i2c address by NVM memory or I2C, how do you give two devices different addresses :)
2020-06-06T22:06:02 < zyp> how does the register stuff work? can input pins be routed to the i2c address selection so I can use pins for address selection?
2020-06-06T22:06:16 < zyp> exactly
2020-06-06T22:07:26 < jpa-> it doesn't appear like that would be possible, the registers are just ram
2020-06-06T22:07:57 < jpa-> you could have some stupid trick like SCL to one chip going through resistor and then holding that low with GPIO while configuring the other chip, but seems quite silly
2020-06-06T22:08:12 < zyp> MPM54304 has a similar issue, it has a GPIO pin that can be used to select between four i2c addrs, but the function of that pin defaults to power good
2020-06-06T22:09:04 < zyp> but I theorize that it might be possible to issue an i2c write to change the pin function to the default address, and just have that reconfigure both devices at the same time :)
2020-06-06T22:09:18 < jpa-> ah, actually you can't even write the I2C address with I2C on the greenpak
2020-06-06T22:12:27 < zyp> hmm
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2020-06-06T22:16:22 < zyp> oh, heh, VDD needs to be >= LDO VIN
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2020-06-06T22:33:52 < qyx> zyp: did you di the fanout with some altidongs magic?
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2020-06-06T23:02:45 < zyp> no
2020-06-06T23:03:05 < zyp> well, idk what you call magic, I didn't use any form of autorouting
2020-06-06T23:03:25 < zyp> but of course with loop removal and stuff enabled
2020-06-06T23:03:58 < Thorn> iirc altium has auto-fanout
2020-06-06T23:04:25 < zyp> sure, but do you really want to use it?
2020-06-06T23:04:47 < Thorn> haven't tried
2020-06-06T23:06:37 < zyp> me neither, but I assume it's like other autorouters, in that getting it to do what you want takes more effort than doing it by hand
2020-06-06T23:08:44 < qyx> progress so far https://i.imgur.com/tU96wVB.png
2020-06-06T23:10:53 < zyp> nice
2020-06-06T23:11:09 < qyx> I don't like it
2020-06-06T23:11:14 < zyp> are the FMC balls really spread all around like that?
2020-06-06T23:11:26 < qyx> yes
2020-06-06T23:11:32 < qyx> I assumed they are grouped logically
2020-06-06T23:11:33 < qyx> but no
2020-06-06T23:12:00 < zyp> that's dumb as fuck, shows the chip is not really designed to hook up to wide memories
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2020-06-06T23:12:46 < qyx> I wanted to do 4 chips, 32Mx8bit for 128megs total
2020-06-06T23:12:51 < qyx> but huh, nope
2020-06-06T23:14:04 < zyp> can't you get larger chips? like 32Mx32?
2020-06-06T23:15:43 < qyx> probably
2020-06-06T23:15:51 < zyp> hmm, apparently not, at least the largest digikey got are 32Mx16 and 16Mx32
2020-06-06T23:16:16 < qyx> those are chep, around 2.50e each or so
2020-06-06T23:16:24 < qyx> *these
2020-06-06T23:16:35 < qyx> similar to what discovery uses
2020-06-06T23:16:36 < zyp> how big are those?
2020-06-06T23:16:41 < qyx> but not automotive grade
2020-06-06T23:16:59 < zyp> 16Mx32 are $14-ish
2020-06-06T23:17:23 < qyx> MT48LC16M16A2 – 4 Meg x 16 x 4 banks
2020-06-06T23:17:26 < zyp> 32Mx16 around the same
2020-06-06T23:17:35 < zyp> so 16Mx16
2020-06-06T23:18:22 < zyp> i.e. 16Mx32 would do the same in a single chip, for a bit over twice the cost
2020-06-06T23:18:47 < qyx> yeah
2020-06-06T23:18:53 < zyp> I'd consider that just to avoid having to route a tree
2020-06-06T23:18:57 < qyx> but for now the board is still a bit empty
2020-06-06T23:19:08 < qyx> I am not routing a tree
2020-06-06T23:19:13 < qyx> I am doing punk
2020-06-06T23:20:01 < qyx> because 167MHz
2020-06-06T23:20:09 < zyp> I'd also consider whether you really need 32b wide
2020-06-06T23:20:29 < qyx> yeah I will check if it brings any advantage at all
2020-06-06T23:20:40 < qyx> it will run linux from sdram
2020-06-06T23:20:49 < qyx> with those 16k caches
2020-06-06T23:20:53 < zyp> wait, what chip is this?
2020-06-06T23:20:57 < qyx> f750
2020-06-06T23:21:08 < zyp> you're gonna run linux on a cortex-m7?
2020-06-06T23:21:16 < qyx> yeah, just for the lulz
2020-06-06T23:21:30 < zyp> doesn't sound worth it :p
2020-06-06T23:21:37 < qyx> there is a buildroot support for F4/F7 running from sdram and XIP from internal flash
2020-06-06T23:21:46 < zyp> heh
2020-06-06T23:21:49 < qyx> uboot too
2020-06-06T23:22:15 < zyp> still doesn't sound very fun without a MMU
2020-06-06T23:22:30 < kiki_lamb>  /join ##velvetandlace
2020-06-06T23:22:33 < kiki_lamb> whoops
2020-06-06T23:23:06 < qyx> it will run openvp, openocd and a couple of scripts/python/lua program
2020-06-06T23:23:07 < qyx> s
2020-06-06T23:23:12 < qyx> *openvpn
2020-06-06T23:23:20 < qyx> meh, I should buy a new keyboard
2020-06-06T23:24:01 < zyp> and with the design complexity, mp1 shouldn't be that much harder really
2020-06-06T23:24:28 < zyp> I bet mp1 has a ballout actually designed to hook up memory :p
2020-06-06T23:24:35 < qyx> hrmpfh
2020-06-06T23:24:38 < qyx> too late
2020-06-06T23:24:48 < qyx> also mp1 is power hungry
2020-06-06T23:25:02 < qyx> actually I don't quite get it
2020-06-06T23:26:28 < qyx> maybe I should buy F7 disco first, rework bigger sdram and try if it works
2020-06-06T23:27:47 < jadew`> my windows did the forced restart thing
2020-06-06T23:27:54 < jadew`> edge is now a clone of chrome
2020-06-06T23:28:03 < jadew`> everything is the same
2020-06-06T23:28:07 < jadew`> including the developer tools
2020-06-06T23:29:03 < zyp> hmm, bga361 ballout for the mp1 looks nice
2020-06-06T23:29:08 < zyp> https://www.st.com/resource/en/datasheet/stm32mp157a.pdf <- page 61
2020-06-06T23:29:29 < zyp> ah, wrong one
2020-06-06T23:29:38 < zyp> bga354 is the relevant one
2020-06-06T23:30:43 < qyx> not doable on 4 layers probably
2020-06-06T23:30:44 < zyp> but still, signals aren't deeper than four balls
2020-06-06T23:30:49 < qyx> hm
2020-06-06T23:30:51 < qyx> then yes
2020-06-06T23:30:51 < zyp> they actually claim it is
2020-06-06T23:31:03 < zyp> all except the largest
2020-06-06T23:31:18 < zyp> DDR is nicely gathered on the right side
2020-06-06T23:31:36 < qyx> I'll start with this
2020-06-06T23:31:47 < qyx> and then wait until you try mp1
2020-06-06T23:32:16 < zyp> looks like only 16 bits wide though
2020-06-06T23:32:46 < zyp> lower byte lane in top right corner, upper byte lane in bottom right corner, control/address in the middle
2020-06-06T23:36:29 < Thorn> there're layout examples for mp1 including 4 layer ones
2020-06-06T23:39:55 < qyx> I managed to route all sdram signals
2020-06-06T23:51:38 -!- jsoft [~jsoft@unaffiliated/jsoft] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds]
2020-06-06T23:55:16 < qyx> but fitting 0603 caps underneath will be fun
2020-06-06T23:58:13 < Thorn> use 0402
--- Day changed Sun Jun 07 2020
2020-06-07T00:10:11 < kakimir> yes'
2020-06-07T00:10:16 < kakimir> 0402 is the best
2020-06-07T00:20:54 < jadew`> so... apparently the only way to stop windows from forcefully rebooting is to rename shutdown.exe
2020-06-07T00:27:03 < kakimir> :o
2020-06-07T00:27:30 < kakimir> I have never though about how does halt work in lunix
2020-06-07T00:28:09 < jadew`> calls int 19h
2020-06-07T00:30:47 < jadew`> I had a bunch of shit open... now I don't remember what it was
2020-06-07T00:30:55 < Thorn> attn zyp https://www.xilinx.com/support/documentation/user_guides/ug865-Zynq-7000-Pkg-Pinout.pdf page 33-34 how many layers do you think is enough for CLG400? assuming 16-bit ddr3 so 2 byte lanes
2020-06-07T00:33:24 < zyp> am I suddenly the authority on memory routing now?
2020-06-07T00:33:34 < zyp> my shit is not proven yet :p
2020-06-07T00:33:38 < zyp> but let's see
2020-06-07T00:40:19 < zyp> am I understanding it right that banks 5xx belongs to the ARM side (PS) and banks 3x belongs to the FPGA side (PL)?
2020-06-07T00:41:53 < zyp> as far as I can see the left side (bank 502) is a four byte lanes wide memory controller
2020-06-07T00:42:40 < zyp> it looks mostly four balls deep, so I'd expect you to be able to fully fan it out in top and bottom layers
2020-06-07T00:43:53 < zyp> looks like two byte lanes in each corner, CA in the middle
2020-06-07T00:45:38 < Thorn> then I'm misuderstanding the "memory grouping" diagram, is it something else, not ddr3 pins?
2020-06-07T00:46:37 < zyp> yeah, I got confused by that at first also, but I concluded that that's if you wanna do more ddr3 on the FPGA side as well
2020-06-07T00:47:14 < zyp> because that looks more like how my stuff looks, not how a hard DDR3 controller looks
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2020-06-07T00:50:11 < zyp> a DDR3 byte lane consists of a differential strobe, a byte mask and 8 bits, and the whole group needs to be able to adjust timing to support write levelling
2020-06-07T00:50:44 < zyp> so DDR3-capable IO are gathered into a group with a configurable delay block
2020-06-07T00:52:19 < zyp> from the graph it looks like each group consists of 12 pins; the differential strobe and ten other pins
2020-06-07T00:52:38 < zyp> on ECP5 each group are 16 pins
2020-06-07T00:53:05 < zyp> strobes are dedicated, and then I can pick 9 from the remaining 14
2020-06-07T00:53:09 < zyp> and use the rest for CA
2020-06-07T00:54:22 < zyp> https://bin.jvnv.net/file/u7tmn.png
2020-06-07T01:08:22 < Thorn> yeah according to this design https://reference.digilentinc.com/_media/reference/programmable-logic/pynq-z1/pynq-z1_sch.pdf PS DDR is port 502
2020-06-07T01:09:13 < jadew`> lol, godaddy switched from a back order that I made several years ago, that was a one time payment, which they didn't fulfill yet, with the promise that they'll return my money if I want to cancel, to a subscription fee of $5/yr
2020-06-07T01:09:24 < Thorn> which they count among available PS I/O in table whatever
2020-06-07T01:09:31 < Thorn> even though it's dedicated to DDR
2020-06-07T01:09:39 < jadew`> I wonder exactly when they decided that that money was theirs to keep and started to just charge me yearly
2020-06-07T01:11:38 < jadew`> since 2008...
2020-06-07T01:11:47 < jadew`> fucking thieves
2020-06-07T01:15:13 < specing> 60 bucks is 60 bucks, gowallet
2020-06-07T01:15:21 < jadew`> yeah...
2020-06-07T01:15:30 < jadew`> I moved most of my domain names from them
2020-06-07T01:15:54 < jadew`> they have very big prices
2020-06-07T01:16:48 < kakinull> I have apparently missed ddr routing school here
2020-06-07T01:17:20 < kakinull> now everyone is doing socs and processors and fpgas right?
2020-06-07T01:17:33 < kakinull> with external ddr ofc
2020-06-07T01:18:08 < Thorn> yes we're pro IRC EEs after all
2020-06-07T01:25:48 < Thorn> hmm they don't have termination on address lines either
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2020-06-07T01:45:12 < Thorn> yeah PS i/o is almost completely used up in that schematics (except 16 dq lines which you can't repurpose)
2020-06-07T01:45:43 < Thorn> if you want to connect e.g. a display you'll have to use PL i/o
2020-06-07T01:52:19 < strata> https://i.redd.it/t6ycmhfvwa351.jpg
2020-06-07T01:52:24 < strata> ^ from #arduino
2020-06-07T01:52:31 < strata> i don't understand...
2020-06-07T01:54:27 < Thorn> what exactly
2020-06-07T01:55:31 < strata> how someone can solder that bad. it has to be intentional.
2020-06-07T01:56:22 < Thorn> yeah someone needs to have their soldering license revoked
2020-06-07T01:59:56 < Steffanx> strata:  obviously has never seen tom66
2020-06-07T02:00:27 < Steffanx> Or whatever his nick was.
2020-06-07T02:00:53 < Steffanx> On some drone forum. Mr D or Mr English might know
2020-06-07T02:23:24 < kakinull> strata: when you get soldering iron and solder that cost equal one bread
2020-06-07T02:24:32 < kakinull> maybe a iron nail heated with torch was used to solder that?
2020-06-07T02:27:33 < kakinull> most likelly photo was posted by mr. D trolling account
2020-06-07T02:49:34 < Steffanx> Nah
2020-06-07T02:51:07 < Laurenceb> death is not abnormal
2020-06-07T02:51:12 < Laurenceb> it is part of life
2020-06-07T02:51:37 < Steffanx> Ty for your wisdom Laurenceb 
2020-06-07T02:57:20 < Thorn> delete new Test();
2020-06-07T03:00:00 < jadew`> when I was a kid I had to use a threading needle to solder for several months
2020-06-07T03:00:16 < jadew`> it came out better than that
2020-06-07T03:00:51 < jadew`> wait, not threading needle... a knitting one
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2020-06-07T03:21:22 < jadew`> are you guys aware of a camera or some sort of optical system that can fit through a 3 mm hole?
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2020-06-07T03:24:33 < jadew`> found some
2020-06-07T03:27:23 < jadew`> no price tag
2020-06-07T03:28:12 < Thorn> jadew` pinhole cameras are likely verboten
2020-06-07T03:28:35 < jadew`> I don't have enough field of view for that
2020-06-07T03:28:44 < jadew`> I have to fit the lens in there
2020-06-07T03:32:06 < specing> Thorn: by whom?
2020-06-07T03:32:14 < aandrew> jadew`: interesting. I'm not aware of any 3mm lenses , although some kids toy cameras do have little (2-3mm?) bubble lenses that would likely fit, if the rest of the camera is fine to sit outside
2020-06-07T03:33:04 < jadew`> aandrew, yeah, but the hole is 4-5 mm deep, and I want to inspect the inside of the box
2020-06-07T03:36:05 < aandrew> man that's a tight spec
2020-06-07T03:36:16 < aandrew> I can't think of anything offhand that'd work
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2020-06-07T03:36:39 < jadew`> me neither
2020-06-07T03:36:43 < aandrew> it'd almost be easier to put a tiny sliver of a mirror on a stick
2020-06-07T03:37:08 < jadew`> hmm
2020-06-07T03:37:11 < jadew`> that could work
2020-06-07T03:37:27 < jadew`> a tiny mirror
2020-06-07T03:37:32 < sync> there are fiberoptic shits that can work
2020-06-07T03:37:55 < jadew`> sync, yeah, the ones I found I didn't find a price for yet
2020-06-07T03:39:40 < aandrew> wtf are you trying to image anyway
2020-06-07T03:40:13 < Thorn> his neighbour
2020-06-07T03:40:18 < jadew`> I want to inspect the soldering on the lid of a box, where the solder is on the inside
2020-06-07T03:43:58 < aandrew> ah
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2020-06-07T04:04:21 < jadew`> there's no keyhole this guy can't peep through: https://youtu.be/oJ0kQvUpd3g?t=20
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2020-06-07T05:04:36 < aandrew> I get the feeling eevblog will be disappearing very soon
2020-06-07T05:05:04 < aandrew> if you know of a way to suck down a simplemachines website, now's the time to do it. there's a ot of good discussion on there that will end up lost forever because it's a fucking forum
2020-06-07T05:05:29 < strata> why will it disappear?
2020-06-07T05:05:29 < specing> aandrew: why? What's going on?
2020-06-07T05:05:33 < aandrew> jones can't keep doing the videos if youtube cancels him, and advertisers pull from the site
2020-06-07T05:05:50 < strata> nah he'll be fine
2020-06-07T05:05:50 < aandrew> strata: he's in the middle of being cancelled by BLM/left nutters
2020-06-07T05:06:15 < strata> all he has to do is say "fuck" 3 times at the beginning of each video so his videos aren't for kids, and he can keep his monetization.
2020-06-07T05:06:22 < strata> that's what sam the cooking guy does
2020-06-07T05:08:14 < strata> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ffaiKZMU0Lw
2020-06-07T05:08:32 < strata> ^ also there's no way he can get cancelled. here is a recent entire video of him showing his appreciation for BLM
2020-06-07T05:09:55 < strata> i mean cmon. the thumbnail is him deepthroating it
2020-06-07T05:10:18 < aandrew> we'll see. the far left isn't known for their forgiveness or level-headedness
2020-06-07T05:10:31 < strata> you can't be racist white patriarchy and have a video like that
2020-06-07T05:11:09 < aandrew> sure you can, now you're just trying to whitewash
2020-06-07T05:11:32 < aandrew> they can justify anything with their olympic-level mental gymnastics
2020-06-07T05:22:00 < strata> ok so he tweeted a picture of a hakko with something that pissed off the cancel mobs?
2020-06-07T05:22:17 < strata> did it say "soldering iron lives matter" or something? lol
2020-06-07T05:25:05 < Cracki> it said "rubber feet matter"
2020-06-07T05:25:15 < Cracki> he replaced the rubber feet on that hting sitting on an inclined plane
2020-06-07T05:25:40 < Cracki> I guess he's too punny for the fun police
2020-06-07T05:25:58 < Cracki> these people are terrorists
2020-06-07T05:26:14 < Cracki> kick the arabs out of gitmo, stuff the commies in there
2020-06-07T05:27:17 < Cracki> rubber bullets matter
2020-06-07T05:28:08 < strata> ya he'll be fine
2020-06-07T05:28:16 < strata> he already mirrors on lbry afaik
2020-06-07T05:28:18 < Cracki> marxist leninist struggle session: https://twitter.com/MLE_Online/status/1269082992414097408
2020-06-07T05:29:13 < aandrew> lbry is for his vids, no?
2020-06-07T05:29:29 < strata> Cracki, lol what is so offensive about the casio?
2020-06-07T05:30:06 < aandrew> strata: it's a clipped pic
2020-06-07T05:30:56 < Cracki> FX-PROBLEMATIC
2020-06-07T05:31:00 < Cracki> not sure what the joke is tho
2020-06-07T05:31:04 < Cracki> maybe casio got woke
2020-06-07T05:31:09 < Cracki> or casio got canceled for something
2020-06-07T05:31:16 < aandrew> https://twitter.com/arturo182/status/1269183083976306688/photo/1
2020-06-07T05:31:40 < aandrew> "check privilege" "triggered" "pronoun" "ableism" etc buttons shopped in
2020-06-07T05:31:41 < Cracki> good shitpost
2020-06-07T05:32:21 < Cracki> and again, discord is only good for canceling people. it leads you to shitposting while the enemy is watching
2020-06-07T05:32:28 < Cracki> never join a discord
2020-06-07T05:33:04 < strata> "Funny you mention him. Ricky has evolved into someone who makes jokes that are more about being offensive than funny. If I watch his older stuff, it's funny and occasionally offensive, but these days it's more like being offensive for the sake of being offensive"
2020-06-07T05:33:23 < Cracki> gulags for the commies
2020-06-07T05:33:36 < Cracki> precisely zero loss to society
2020-06-07T05:33:46 < strata> ^^ ill translate this from marxist twittertranny: it's funny and occasionally offensive, but hese days it's more like being offended for the sake of being offended.
2020-06-07T05:38:18 < Cracki> another one who needs to play political commissar: https://twitter.com/marcan42/status/1269182883001798656
2020-06-07T05:38:44 < strata> https://twitter.com/arturo182/status/1269186058593468417
2020-06-07T05:38:48 < strata> look at this fucking soycuck
2020-06-07T05:39:35 < strata> talking about the FX-PROBLEMATIC screenshot
2020-06-07T05:40:11 < strata> i had to read all these idiots to figure out why the casio was so offensive to them because they apparently cropped out the punchline because it would have been too offensive to share amongst themselves
2020-06-07T05:40:23 < strata> that's how deranged these people are. just wait until they're occupying seats in the fucking supreme court.
2020-06-07T05:40:50 < Cracki> incredible, their hate knows no bounds https://twitter.com/marcan42/status/1269203205608464384
2020-06-07T05:41:08 < Cracki> what was the punchline to the casio?
2020-06-07T05:41:13 < Cracki> (apart from the buttons)
2020-06-07T05:41:54 < strata> the part where dave apparently said "It's a calculator, except for snowflakes! Get it?! Ha!"
2020-06-07T05:41:55 < Cracki> oh the buttons were the punch line. lol these people love to be outraged
2020-06-07T05:42:53 < strata> the shot they used as their exhibit A didn't have the offensive part, only the top of the calculator that says FX-PROBLEMATIC
2020-06-07T05:43:06 < strata> so we don't know if dave really said that or if they just made it up?
2020-06-07T05:43:18 < strata> you never know with these people. they're on some good drugs.
2020-06-07T05:44:33 < strata> still, i think dave will be fine. he has a great community and getting banned from youtube and twitter won't be the end of him.
2020-06-07T05:45:22 < strata> it will just be a new chapter for eevblog. one without walking on eggshells in a room full of entitled trustafarians with gender studies degrees
2020-06-07T06:05:26 < Cracki> high res original https://pbs.twimg.com/media/EF1Zg2_VUAEKjb6.jpg:orig
2020-06-07T06:14:57 < Cracki> tng picard said it best https://youtu.be/AXd1_LUhCKM?t=66
2020-06-07T06:22:23 < Thorn> a thinly veiled threat https://twitter.com/cartertools/status/1269310950198218752
2020-06-07T06:22:26 < Thorn> another https://twitter.com/mrtwinkletwink/status/1269300342161846273
2020-06-07T06:25:31 < Thorn> whoever woke up the ghosts of Stalin and his comissars needs to have him go back and take them with him
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2020-06-07T06:32:35 < strata> Thorn, there's no case there with those links.
2020-06-07T06:33:07 < strata> Chris Gammell capitulated to the mob like a bitch.
2020-06-07T06:33:41 < strata> he might as well add his pronouns to his bio and start re-tweeting BLM.
2020-06-07T06:33:44 < Thorn> some industry pro apparently shat his pants and asked his interview to be removed
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2020-06-07T06:34:43 < Cracki> who
2020-06-07T06:34:53 < Cracki> look for the missing episode
2020-06-07T06:36:29 < Cracki> they're numbered and other sites have a full listing that likely isn't being censored
2020-06-07T06:37:46 < Cracki> got it, #465 seems to be missing from the site
2020-06-07T06:38:10 < Cracki> Search Results Web results  465 – An Interview with Ted Yapo - The Amp Hour Electronics
2020-06-07T06:38:13 < Thorn> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Pb_g7LIMg2g
2020-06-07T06:38:32 < Cracki> https://twitter.com/tedyapo/status/1269412717309448194
2020-06-07T06:38:53 < Cracki> 0 comments 204 views lol
2020-06-07T06:39:09 < strata> the amp hour sounds like a white supremacist podcast to me
2020-06-07T06:39:12 < Cracki> I realize they're podcasts and yt isn't *the* place to listen to podcasts...
2020-06-07T06:39:16 < Cracki> wat
2020-06-07T06:39:39 < strata> is that where dave spreads his hate crimes?
2020-06-07T06:42:01 < Cracki> I wonder if dave will drop that podcast and it'll disappear into irrelevance
2020-06-07T06:42:50 < strata> if he's already removing posts and other stuff, then yes. that is the desired outcome.
2020-06-07T06:43:29 < Cracki> no, the gammell dude is removing those
2020-06-07T06:43:35 < Cracki> never heard of him tbh
2020-06-07T06:44:07 < strata> doesn't matter. he capitulated to the virus.
2020-06-07T06:45:28 < strata> that means he has been infected and the first symptoms will start showing soon. look for dyed hair, abrupt gender change, marx quotes, etc.
2020-06-07T07:10:24 < Cracki> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y_ksdfRJdaA
2020-06-07T07:39:50 < Thorn> xc7z020 has almost 3x PL resources in int compared to 010
2020-06-07T07:39:58 < Thorn> misleading part # lol
2020-06-07T07:51:18 < emeb_mac> Never played w/ that
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2020-06-07T07:52:15 < emeb_mac> got a minized board tho - has a 7z007 which is still a lot of resources 
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2020-06-07T08:12:51 < Thorn> I like Xilinx UGs so far, better English, clearer intro/narrative parts and more details compared to ST
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2020-06-07T08:34:44 < Thorn> what is this and why so cheap https://aliexpress.com/item/32988738790.html
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2020-06-07T09:11:54 < Cracki> those pynq and other boards are little more than that price but maybe they only have a 010
2020-06-07T09:13:04 < Thorn> pynq with 020 is $200
2020-06-07T09:13:10 < Cracki> oh wow
2020-06-07T09:13:11 < Thorn> this one also has a 020
2020-06-07T09:13:16 < Cracki> I guess those are moneyed westerner prices
2020-06-07T09:13:56 < Cracki> are you saying to buy that?
2020-06-07T09:15:20 < Thorn> in fact the chip itself is between $113 and $150 on digikey https://www.digikey.com/products/en/integrated-circuits-ics/embedded-system-on-chip-soc/777?k=xc7z020
2020-06-07T09:15:55 < Cracki> moneyed westerner surcharge
2020-06-07T09:16:05 < Cracki> also those are quantity 1
2020-06-07T09:16:44 < Thorn> it doesn't have hdmi and only has a handful of i/o broken out
2020-06-07T09:17:01 < Thorn> telegram says 18 PL i/os from different banks
2020-06-07T09:17:33 < Cracki> usb 2, 100M ethernet, hm
2020-06-07T09:18:07 < Thorn> the chip does support 1G ethernet but not usb3
2020-06-07T09:22:54 < Thorn> why are all moneyed westerners' PMICs are so expensive
2020-06-07T09:23:12 < Thorn> I'm going to have to use a Chinese one
2020-06-07T09:25:03 < emeb_mac> that lychee board looks nice
2020-06-07T09:25:14 < emeb_mac> not much uncommitted I/O though
2020-06-07T09:26:36 < Thorn> there's a parallel NAND on the bottom, that's where all the PS i/o went
2020-06-07T09:26:54 < emeb_mac> these are pretty inexpensive: http://www.myirtech.com/list.asp?id=565
2020-06-07T09:26:55 < Thorn> but I don't get why so little PL i/o is broken out
2020-06-07T09:27:03 < emeb_mac> and lotsa I/O
2020-06-07T09:27:27 < emeb_mac> I've got one of those but haven't used it yet
2020-06-07T09:28:07 < emeb_mac> IIRC the price is < $70
2020-06-07T09:28:15 < emeb_mac> in small qty.
2020-06-07T09:35:20 < Thorn> interesting, thanks
2020-06-07T09:49:57 < Thorn> https://twitter.com/BethanyAllenEbr/status/1268611608672194560 >Within 45 SECONDS of me changing the password, my WeChat account was permanently closed.
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2020-06-07T09:58:26 < Cracki> lol
2020-06-07T10:00:17 < Cracki> >hand of the state
2020-06-07T10:00:47 < Cracki> but they're private enterprises, they're allowed to do whatever they like! freedom of password does not mean freedom from consequences! take that, bigot!
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2020-06-07T10:21:07 < Spirit532> MYIR makes alright products
2020-06-07T10:21:16 < Spirit532> I'm battling their iMX HMI right now
2020-06-07T10:21:32 < Spirit532> Fucking linux, fucking compiling. I wanna go back to STM32 and HAL. Bwaaaaaa.
2020-06-07T10:21:51 < Thorn> >HAL
2020-06-07T10:22:08 < Spirit532> Yes, HAL. It works.
2020-06-07T10:48:33 < zyp> jpa-, damn, that greenpak stuff is a fucking rabbit hole
2020-06-07T10:50:08 < zyp> jpa-, apparently they have a 7-output LDO one on the way too: https://www.dialog-semiconductor.com/products/power-management/cmic-imaging-and-sensing/slg51000
2020-06-07T10:51:27 < zyp> but it's in wlcsp20, so depending on pinout it might be unusable without via in pad
2020-06-07T10:51:34 < zyp> and the datasheet is not published yet
2020-06-07T10:57:18 < Spirit532> Dialog's site is broken as hell for me
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2020-06-07T11:00:35 < rapha> hi all
2020-06-07T11:00:47 < zyp> hi rapha 
2020-06-07T11:01:49 < rapha> it's my first time playing with a "blue pill" and now it dawned on me that this is an ARM processor. is it possible that there's an RTOS for this?
2020-06-07T11:02:09 < Cracki> yes, you have lots of choice
2020-06-07T11:02:48 < Cracki> if you work with stm32cubemx, it's supposed to generate code that uses FreeRTOS
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2020-06-07T11:10:32 < Cracki> other RTOSes that run on Cortex M: nuttx, chibios, ...
2020-06-07T11:15:55 < rapha> oh wow
2020-06-07T11:15:55 < zyp> zephyr seems to start getting popular
2020-06-07T11:16:32 < rapha> do any of them allow access via the USB port out of the box?
2020-06-07T11:17:34 < zyp> rapha, let me just ask though, what do you expect a rtos to do?
2020-06-07T11:17:34 < PaulFertser> What reasonably common MCU can't run a RTOS?
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2020-06-07T11:23:16 < rapha> zyp: dunno, i never did anything with an RTOS before. mostly curious. also, i'm guessing it'll allow setting the PWM output values on the fly, without having to upload a new program, which would be handy rn.
2020-06-07T11:31:05 < jpa-> zyp: my experience in trying to fit greenpak into a design has been that there is always some small thing missing that causes it not to work for my purposes
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--- Log closed Sun Jun 07 11:33:47 2020
--- Log opened Sun Jun 07 11:35:00 2020
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2020-06-07T11:36:35 -!- ServerMode/##stm32 [+qqqq Laurenceb__!*@* *!*@gateway/web/freenode/ip.128.243.2.29 *!*@gateway/web/freenode/ip.86.133.204.69 *!*@2001:41d0:401:3100::30fa] by wolfe.freenode.net
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2020-06-07T11:36:35 -!- wolfe.freenode.net changed the topic of ##stm32 to: STM32 | This channel is publicly logged ( http://xob.kapsi.fi/~jpa/stm32/ ) | IRC wisdom: https://github.com/karlp/zypsnips | Don't ask to ask | http://essentialscrap.com/tips/stm32prices/ | And cats | Channel rules: https://physics.nist.gov/cuu/Units/checklist.html
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2020-06-07T12:27:59 < antto> https://i.imgur.com/43mXMds.mp4
2020-06-07T13:24:37 < kakimir> before sleeping I watched videos about training ponies
2020-06-07T13:26:06 < antto> <concern.jpg>
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2020-06-07T13:27:15 < kakimir> yes
2020-06-07T13:27:31 < kakimir> luckily I dreamed about training tigers
2020-06-07T13:29:00 < kakimir> I was in someones house and she had tiger and armadillo
2020-06-07T13:29:30 < kakimir> I had to keep them calm
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2020-06-07T13:53:48 < Steffanx> Do people ever tell you  you're weird, kakimir?
2020-06-07T14:01:26 < PaulFertser> Do people ever tell you you're not Steffanx ?
2020-06-07T14:04:28 < Steffanx> Not yet. 
2020-06-07T14:04:32 < Steffanx> Gooday PaulFertser 
2020-06-07T14:05:32 < PaulFertser> Hello Steffanx . I can't remember if people ever told me something like "you're a normal guy all right".
2020-06-07T14:06:25 < Steffanx> Lol PaulFertser . This was probably some inside joke. I used to ask this kakimir at least once/month. But last time I did it was probably a while back ;)
2020-06-07T14:07:26 < kakimir> Steffanx is very normal
2020-06-07T14:07:41 < Steffanx> Im not so sure about that. What is normal?
2020-06-07T14:07:46 < strata> tekaki69
2020-06-07T14:10:51 < Steffanx> Hows your day mr kakimir?
2020-06-07T14:10:58 < kakimir> chillin
2020-06-07T14:11:14 < kakimir> I should probs do something
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2020-06-07T14:13:45 < Steffanx> Chillin' is also something
2020-06-07T14:13:50 < Steffanx> Its good for you
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2020-06-07T14:26:35 < zyp> jpa-, the greenpak rabbit hole goes deeper and deeper, playing around with the designer tool now, seems it knows about more fun unreleased parts
2020-06-07T14:28:23 < zyp> apparently there's a SLG47105V which packs two 12V-capable H-bridges (also usable as four halfbridges) in the same 2x3mm qfn20
2020-06-07T14:29:19 < zyp> and also apparently some parts do support configuring some pins as address selection pins for the i2c block
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2020-06-07T16:11:34 < qyx> whats that greenpak thing
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2020-06-07T16:23:09 < zyp> qyx, https://www.dialog-semiconductor.com/products/configurable-mixed-signal/greenpak
2020-06-07T16:23:48 < zyp> sort of a small fpga with a bunch of analog blocks as well
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2020-06-07T16:35:13 < Cracki> random pick, looks funny, not sure what to make of that https://www.dialog-semiconductor.com/products/slg46580
2020-06-07T16:35:31 < Cracki> not much programmable logic in there
2020-06-07T16:37:51 < emeb_mac> very limited.
2020-06-07T16:38:15 < emeb_mac> not much more than a handful of SSI chips + a few discretes.
2020-06-07T16:38:17 < Cracki> another says applications: Power Sequencing with Complex Analog Control Power Plane Component Size Reduction Project Consumer Electronics LED Driver Haptic Motor Driver System RESET with Power Switch
2020-06-07T16:38:55 < Cracki> I guess they'd be a good choice if you can't find an IC that's simple yet exactly what you want
2020-06-07T16:39:51 < Cracki> okeh... >2 Amp P-FET
2020-06-07T16:42:40 < Cracki> I guess the selling point is "obscuring design details."
2020-06-07T16:44:15 < Cracki> ah good their yt video is actually informative
2020-06-07T16:45:01 < Laurenceb> that reads like verbal spaghetti
2020-06-07T16:45:29 < Cracki> it's like scratch for circuits
2020-06-07T16:45:48 < Cracki> virtual breadboard
2020-06-07T16:45:53 < Laurenceb> 1.8v operation looks useful
2020-06-07T16:46:40 < Laurenceb> https://www.dialog-semiconductor.com/products/document-search?title=SLG46140
2020-06-07T16:46:46  * Laurenceb is unconvinced
2020-06-07T16:47:07 < Laurenceb> almost all of these could be done with entry level microcontroller
2020-06-07T16:47:08 < Cracki> raven says ree
2020-06-07T16:48:10 < Laurenceb> at least its small and 1.8v I guess
2020-06-07T16:48:11 < Cracki> are these things cheaper than an entry level uc
2020-06-07T16:48:22 < Cracki> they look too fancy to be cheap
2020-06-07T16:48:27 < Laurenceb> >one time memory
2020-06-07T16:48:29 < Laurenceb> fail
2020-06-07T16:49:40 < Laurenceb> lol its literally a fairly basic µC internally, but without the core
2020-06-07T16:49:41 < Laurenceb> wtf
2020-06-07T16:50:14 < Laurenceb> >peripherals with no core, only shitty lookup tables
2020-06-07T16:50:52 < Laurenceb> this is like the anti parallax propeller
2020-06-07T16:51:07 < Cracki> their appnotes use RIGOL scope screenshots. boy must they be cheap. https://www.dialog-semiconductor.com/sites/default/files/an-cm-271_pwm_frequency_converter-v2.pdf
2020-06-07T16:51:23 < Laurenceb> lol those things
2020-06-07T16:53:14 < Cracki> I guess another advantage of this simplicity is that it's easier to verify
2020-06-07T16:53:56 < Cracki> take that PWM-to-PWM example. you'd need two timers for that, one to input capture the duty cycle, another to regenerate the signal with different frequency
2020-06-07T16:54:06 < Laurenceb> price isnt too bad
2020-06-07T16:54:08 < Cracki> not much to it
2020-06-07T16:54:23 < Laurenceb> about $1
2020-06-07T16:55:27 < Cracki> ehhhh well, if it saves a discrete P-FET or... I think they had ones triple digit milliamp power variable voltage output?
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2020-06-07T17:09:41 < zyp> Laurenceb, I don't think it's meant to compete with microcontrollers, I think it's meant for tasks too simple to justify a microcontroller
2020-06-07T17:11:06 < zyp> or analog stuff that microcontrollers simply doesn't do
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2020-06-07T17:16:30 < karlp> it has some yosys support too iirc
2020-06-07T17:19:50 < zyp> saw something like that before, but I'm not convinced that's useful
2020-06-07T17:27:02 < karlp> no, just remember reading it.
2020-06-07T17:27:15 < karlp> was nice to see that it was all coming in together
2020-06-07T17:35:24 < zyp> I mean, with like 10-30 LUTs, I'm not convinced you'd want to program them in verilog
2020-06-07T17:36:20 < emeb_mac> sure you would. 
2020-06-07T17:36:35 < emeb_mac> verilog is fine for super low-level stuff.
2020-06-07T17:37:06 < emeb_mac> simple logical equations and netlisting.
2020-06-07T17:38:43 < emeb_mac> but at that level schematics might be just as good.
2020-06-07T17:43:59 < Laurenceb> arg wtf lunix
2020-06-07T17:44:05 < Laurenceb> >suddenly usb mouse not working
2020-06-07T17:44:08 < Laurenceb> that a new one
2020-06-07T17:44:16 < Laurenceb> its htere on lsusb and dmesg
2020-06-07T17:47:41 < Laurenceb> wait wtf
2020-06-07T17:47:48 < Laurenceb> there is a dead fly in the mouse
2020-06-07T17:48:05 < Laurenceb> >1st confirmed case of lunix not being the problem
2020-06-07T17:48:40 < Laurenceb> maybe I need to listen to Prof Peterson and clean my room
2020-06-07T17:48:47 < zyp> your mouse were literally buggy
2020-06-07T17:48:51 < Laurenceb> ikr
2020-06-07T17:49:14 < Laurenceb> looks like it had been inside for ages then fell in front of the sensor
2020-06-07T17:51:25 < Cracki> the one who came up with calling it a "bug" was named grass hopper or something, right?
2020-06-07T17:51:53 < Cracki> so only the sensor, buttons and wheel still work? did ya not try that?
2020-06-07T17:55:03 < Laurenceb> yeah thats how I "debugged" it
2020-06-07T17:55:29 < Cracki> sometimes I have to remind myself that you're a doctor
2020-06-07T17:55:41 < Cracki> with the analytical skills to go with it
2020-06-07T17:56:02 < Cracki> but then I see the shitposting and I think you're one of a kind
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2020-06-07T18:25:17 < Mangy_Dog> https://youtu.be/m2GXD0p8hF0
2020-06-07T18:31:25 < Cracki> :D
2020-06-07T18:31:51 < Cracki> gate of fortune
2020-06-07T18:32:08 < Mangy_Dog> heh
2020-06-07T18:32:23 < jadew`> you missed an opportunity to use special effects and make the portal open at the end
2020-06-07T18:32:45 < Mangy_Dog> >.>
2020-06-07T18:32:51 < Mangy_Dog> <.<
2020-06-07T18:33:08 < Cracki> *single drop from a water tap*
2020-06-07T18:33:11 < Mangy_Dog> have you been spying in my mind?
2020-06-07T18:33:28 < Mangy_Dog> when i do the final video... im going to do a little.... umm joke
2020-06-07T18:33:36 < Cracki> *poit* https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1haqk8fNL3Y
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2020-06-07T18:36:13 < qyx> hm, my 2 slot backplane is kind of limited and useless
2020-06-07T18:36:19 < antto> https://i.imgur.com/0xahVo5.png
2020-06-07T18:38:17 < Cracki> grayscale silkscreen. I wanna see how that turns out
2020-06-07T18:38:30 < Cracki> even dithering can fail
2020-06-07T18:38:51 < antto> this isn't grayscale
2020-06-07T18:38:57 < Cracki> yes, dithering
2020-06-07T18:38:58 < antto> it's monochrome
2020-06-07T18:39:05 < Mangy_Dog> ive tried dithering pictures before
2020-06-07T18:39:05 < kakimir> ddope
2020-06-07T18:39:12 < kakimir> kitten
2020-06-07T18:39:13 < Cracki> if the silkscreen is shit, the droplets would merge
2020-06-07T18:39:16 < Mangy_Dog> it usually works out ok if you have it corse enough
2020-06-07T18:39:25 < antto> thing is, it's not easy to get *proper* dither in a f*cking image program
2020-06-07T18:39:28 < Cracki> wat he said
2020-06-07T18:39:33 < Cracki> heh
2020-06-07T18:39:41 < Mangy_Dog> i think kicad has the tool built in
2020-06-07T18:39:58 < jadew`> I thought that's a rabbit
2020-06-07T18:40:06 < antto> no.. it's about image programs, algorithms, and gamma correction
2020-06-07T18:40:19 < Cracki> what do you consider proper? there's the regular pattern dithering, randomness, and then there's some kind of dynamic programming thing where it's actually maintaining constant density
2020-06-07T18:40:26 < antto> floyd-steinberg dither is eggcelent, except they apply it on f*cking sRGB
2020-06-07T18:40:41 < Cracki> ic
2020-06-07T18:41:16 < Cracki> ooh those pictures give me nostalgia
2020-06-07T18:41:17 < antto> like, there's tons of details (hair) on her neck
2020-06-07T18:41:26 < antto> it doesn't show up despite my efforts
2020-06-07T18:41:30 < Cracki> I think my first inkjet printer did that exact algorithm
2020-06-07T18:42:21 < Cracki> kitteh does look overcontrasted. face whiteout, shoulders blackout
2020-06-07T18:42:28 < antto> but this is still "better" than if you just go and apply floyd-steinberg directly (then you don't even get the stuff around the cheecks)
2020-06-07T18:42:33 < jadew`> antto, should have shaved her before taking the photo
2020-06-07T18:42:59 < antto> i hate to have to write my own program for everything, damn it
2020-06-07T18:43:34 < Cracki> just do it in python
2020-06-07T18:43:42 < Cracki> a little numpy
2020-06-07T18:43:46 < antto> i'm snek-o-phobic
2020-06-07T18:43:54 < Cracki> no step on snek
2020-06-07T18:43:58 < antto> i'd rather do it in mIRC
2020-06-07T18:44:05 < Cracki> lol
2020-06-07T18:44:12 < jadew`> feed the pussy to the python
2020-06-07T18:44:16 < Cracki> tickle scripts or what was it
2020-06-07T18:44:26 < Cracki> you horndog
2020-06-07T18:44:37 < jadew`> I had more, but I refrained myself
2020-06-07T18:46:36 < Cracki> so... do I get that right, you need to apply dithering to a linear(ized) color space, and all the open sores programs have no clue what that is
2020-06-07T18:47:10 < antto> Cracki why did you thought it's a problem with opensource programs?
2020-06-07T18:47:35 < antto> do you think crapdobe photoshop does color mathz properly?
2020-06-07T18:47:40 < antto> because it's $$$$
2020-06-07T18:47:42 < Cracki> because gamma-obliviousness is a common theme everywhere
2020-06-07T18:47:43 < antto> right?
2020-06-07T18:47:59 < Cracki> simple test: resize a pixelwise checkerboard pattern
2020-06-07T18:48:18 < antto> yes, almost all programs do it wrong
2020-06-07T18:48:25 < Cracki> if it gives you 127/128 for pixel values, while it's supposedly srgb or whatever, which has a gamma or 2.2-2.4, it failed
2020-06-07T18:48:39 < antto> yes, almost all of them fail
2020-06-07T18:48:40 < Cracki> because 1.0 + 0.0 is 0.5, which isn't 128
2020-06-07T18:48:53 < antto> i *know* this sh*t
2020-06-07T18:49:12 < Cracki> what did you have to do to make it work tho?
2020-06-07T18:49:28 < antto> rape the program to get gamma decompression
2020-06-07T18:49:30 < Cracki> find the program that does it right? or fuck with gamma
2020-06-07T18:49:32 < Cracki> heh
2020-06-07T18:49:38 < antto> but it's kinda approximate
2020-06-07T18:49:52 < Cracki> apropos raep, #RubberFeetMatter
2020-06-07T18:50:14 < Cracki> yeah well their problem if they define a linear piece near black
2020-06-07T19:13:35 < Cracki> meow https://imgur.com/ljyzwmn
2020-06-07T19:18:08 < Laurenceb> fucks sake
2020-06-07T19:18:17 < Laurenceb> this protest shit has speard to uk
2020-06-07T19:18:31 < Laurenceb> hope they all catch coronavirus tbh
2020-06-07T19:18:56 < Cracki> they're too young, they likely won't even get the sniffles
2020-06-07T19:19:04 < Cracki> but they'll kill all the old people
2020-06-07T19:19:29 < Laurenceb> >all the protestors tearing down the statue are white
2020-06-07T19:19:33 < Laurenceb> who could have predicted this
2020-06-07T19:19:46 < Cracki> self hate
2020-06-07T19:19:53 < Cracki> the propaganda is strong
2020-06-07T19:20:32 < Cracki> the indoctrination causes all kinds of behavior... hating yourself and your parents, destroying your history, cutting off your penis
2020-06-07T19:21:27 < Laurenceb> lol accurate
2020-06-07T19:21:50 < Cracki> today I saw someone on the side of the trigglypuffs vs eevblog. just a few years ago he himself was canceled. it seems they worked him over and now he's back in the matrix.
2020-06-07T19:22:25 < Cracki> traitors to their people
2020-06-07T19:23:03 < Cracki> you can't resist forever if your social circles consist of political commissars
2020-06-07T19:23:24 < Cracki> they'll struggle session you, guilt trip you, gaslight you, ...
2020-06-07T19:25:05 < Laurenceb> wtf
2020-06-07T19:25:11 < Laurenceb> >versus eevblog
2020-06-07T19:25:16 < Cracki> I'm not happy with the pattern of that dithering... the diffusion "matrix" looks weird anyway. and nobody bothers talking about how to treat the borders. just fold the error back inside?
2020-06-07T19:25:16 < Laurenceb> the heck
2020-06-07T19:28:01 < Laurenceb> >>1385785
2020-06-07T19:28:01 < Laurenceb> this wouldnt happen in south london
2020-06-07T19:28:03 < Laurenceb> keeek
2020-06-07T19:28:11 < Laurenceb> >this wouldnt happen meme intensifies
2020-06-07T19:29:24 < Laurenceb> >this wouldnt happen in Texas, muh 2nd amendment
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2020-06-07T19:39:37 < antto> https://i.imgur.com/RsAtUZP.png
2020-06-07T19:40:27 < Cracki> nice
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2020-06-07T19:41:13 < strata> the evil white cat
2020-06-07T19:41:25 < strata> i tried to say 'teh' but hexchat autocorrects it
2020-06-07T19:41:47 < antto> yeah, hexchat makes it difficult
2020-06-07T19:41:51 < strata> teh evil white cat
2020-06-07T19:41:59 < strata> HAHA HEXCHAT I TRICKED U
2020-06-07T19:42:07 < antto> you gotta type "tehevil" then go back and add the space afterwards
2020-06-07T19:42:29 < Cracki> teh/the can be disabled somewhere in hexchat. I once found where...
2020-06-07T19:42:36 < antto> yes, it can
2020-06-07T19:42:39 < Cracki> it has a basic string replacement module somewhere
2020-06-07T19:43:11 < Cracki> ah, settings / auto replace
2020-06-07T19:43:27 < Laurenceb> >This would never happen at the Bourton-on-the-Water Motor Museum 
2020-06-07T19:43:27 < Laurenceb> keeeek first accurate instance of the meme
2020-06-07T19:43:41 < strata> the the the the
2020-06-07T19:43:50 < strata> teh teh teh teh
2020-06-07T19:43:52 < strata> ok there we go
2020-06-07T19:43:52 < Cracki> commies can't swim? YAY commie test time! to the pond!
2020-06-07T19:44:41 < Cracki> the a piece of berlin wall to their legs. if they float, they're innocent
2020-06-07T19:44:43 < Cracki> *tie
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2020-06-07T20:16:33 < Laurenceb> >holy shit guyz antifa just burnt down the Bourton-on-the-Water Motor Museum 
2020-06-07T20:16:36 < Laurenceb> kek based ruseman
2020-06-07T20:18:19 < Laurenceb> wtf prices https://www.amazon.co.uk/MISOL-manifold-holes-diameter-collector/dp/B00NATX4KQ
2020-06-07T20:42:58 < Steffanx> one does not buy something like that on amazon ...
2020-06-07T20:44:17 < mawk> what
2020-06-07T20:47:20 < mawk> an equation is worth a thousand pictures, am I right ?
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2020-06-07T21:06:28 < aandrew> yeah Ive seen some absolutely stupid prices on amazon, I can't help but think they're typos
2020-06-07T21:08:32 < mawk> no
2020-06-07T21:08:34 < mawk> they're bugs
2020-06-07T21:08:42 < mawk> in the bots that set the prices
2020-06-07T21:09:09 < mawk> they look at similar products from concurrents and set the price relative to it
2020-06-07T21:09:22 < mawk> and sometimes it spirals out of hand
2020-06-07T21:09:38 < mawk> but I guess for small sellers could be a typo
2020-06-07T21:28:31 < Steffanx> hah mawk is still with us \o/
2020-06-07T21:30:40 < Laurenceb> ukp250 for an aluminium extrusion section
2020-06-07T21:34:35 -!- c10ud^^ [~c10ud@emesene/dictator/c10ud] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds]
2020-06-07T21:43:50 < Laurenceb> The only winning move is to let them pull your statues down. Trust the plan.
2020-06-07T21:43:56 < Laurenceb> t. Q
2020-06-07T21:53:25 -!- Streaker [~Streaker@unaffiliated/streaker] has quit [Quit: Streaker]
2020-06-07T21:54:31 < mawk> why would I not be with you Steffanx :( ?
2020-06-07T21:54:52 < Steffanx> idk. bad case of COVID-19?
2020-06-07T21:56:22 < kakimir> in quakenet Q has eyes everywhere
2020-06-07T22:02:28 < kakimir> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y7EQaNlsEFs summer songs
2020-06-07T22:06:12 < Steffanx> Here have some music spam to hate kakimir https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tjUpKDgM80k
2020-06-07T22:10:22 -!- oz4ga [~tim@unaffiliated/oz4ga] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds]
2020-06-07T22:12:18 < mawk> I survived several overdoses Steffanx why would a shitty chinese virus take me out
2020-06-07T22:13:49 < Steffanx> because the overdoses made you a weak boy
2020-06-07T22:19:38 < kakimir> Steffanx: meh
2020-06-07T22:20:25 < kakimir> the song doesn't build up
2020-06-07T22:20:58 < Steffanx> Its not supposed to
2020-06-07T22:21:20 < Steffanx> and its untrue :P
2020-06-07T22:21:57 < Steffanx> because it does.
2020-06-07T22:23:01 < kakimir> yes
2020-06-07T22:23:17 < kakimir> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DS8HbMFwjGY
2020-06-07T22:23:20 < kakimir> more musics
2020-06-07T22:23:37 < Steffanx> ohno, not the meme music.
2020-06-07T22:23:51 < Steffanx> At least give the credits to the original
2020-06-07T22:24:09 < kakimir> meme songs
2020-06-07T22:29:28 < Steffanx> kakimeme.
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--- Log closed Sun Jun 07 23:23:57 2020
--- Log opened Sun Jun 07 23:24:07 2020
2020-06-07T23:24:07 -!- jpa- [jpa@hilla.kapsi.fi] has joined ##stm32
2020-06-07T23:24:07 -!- Irssi: ##stm32: Total of 140 nicks [1 ops, 0 halfops, 0 voices, 139 normal]
2020-06-07T23:25:12 -!- Irssi: Join to ##stm32 was synced in 72 secs
2020-06-07T23:25:42 < Steffanx> We missed you jpa-
2020-06-07T23:26:15 < jpa-> don't worry, i'll be back
2020-06-07T23:26:39 < Steffanx> Damn it.
2020-06-07T23:43:38 < Steffanx> How to get rid of you?
2020-06-07T23:43:57 < Steffanx> Oh, poisoned stroopwaffles.
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--- Day changed Mon Jun 08 2020
2020-06-08T00:18:18 -!- bvernoux [~Ben@88.120.152.126] has quit [Quit: Leaving]
2020-06-08T00:31:19 < Mangy_Dog> trying to pass an array to a function via a pointer but im getting errors https://hastebin.com/ujakeposut.cpp
2020-06-08T00:31:46 < Mangy_Dog> ive always been a bit iffy on pointers so what am i doing wrong?
2020-06-08T00:35:26 < karlp> your signature should probably just be uint8_t *prof
2020-06-08T00:36:09 < karlp> I think you got a pointer to an array, so a double pointer.
2020-06-08T00:36:09 < kakimir> recommend eth cards?
2020-06-08T00:36:15 < kakimir> pci-e
2020-06-08T00:36:22 < kakimir> one or multiple ports
2020-06-08T00:36:30 < kakimir> good performance
2020-06-08T00:36:37 < kakimir> small price
2020-06-08T00:37:43 < Mangy_Dog> umm
2020-06-08T00:38:51 < Mangy_Dog> kalp what do you mean sorrty
2020-06-08T00:38:53 < Mangy_Dog> sorry
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2020-06-08T00:46:05 < kakimir> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8J88JmcrAVI
2020-06-08T00:46:11 < kakimir> music documentary
2020-06-08T00:47:19 < kakimir> in 80s they used boats to broadcast pirate radios
2020-06-08T00:47:25 < kakimir> with underground musics
2020-06-08T00:47:34 < kakimir> then they used tall buildings
2020-06-08T00:48:10 < kakimir> it's in part 3
2020-06-08T00:49:08 -!- Laurenceb [~laurence@35.207.208.46.dyn.plus.net] has joined ##stm32
2020-06-08T00:51:24 < Steffanx> Yeah, we had a few of those boats too, kakimir. Some radio stations still exists 
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2020-06-08T00:51:38 < zyp> I made some shit: https://bin.jvnv.net/file/1KVaK.png
2020-06-08T00:51:48 < kakimir> it was the time when bbc etc. ruled
2020-06-08T00:51:56 < Steffanx> Free energy zyp?
2020-06-08T00:52:59 < zyp> https://bin.jvnv.net/file/AW3xj.png
2020-06-08T00:53:21 < zyp> it's generating outputs for a chain of serial leds
2020-06-08T00:53:29 < kakimir> what is that tool?
2020-06-08T00:53:39 < kakimir> cubism?
2020-06-08T00:53:56 -!- Netsplit *.net <-> *.split quits: jef79m, canton7, diamondman, nashpa, Sadale, inca, tonyarkles, sferrini, CheBuzz, CygniX
2020-06-08T00:53:57 < zyp> currently based on a LUT that sets them respectively to red, yellow, blue and white
2020-06-08T00:54:21 -!- Netsplit over, joins: Sadale, CheBuzz, inca, tonyarkles, canton7, nashpa, jef79m, sferrini, diamondman, CygniX
2020-06-08T00:54:27 -!- Netsplit *.net <-> *.split quits: kakimir, kakinull
2020-06-08T00:54:33 -!- Netsplit over, joins: kakimir, kakinull
2020-06-08T00:54:47 < zyp> still got 12 LUTs spare in this device
2020-06-08T00:55:15 -!- Netsplit *.net <-> *.split quits: ThatDamnRanga, tsprlng, MrMobius, rene_dev_, esden
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2020-06-08T00:55:34 < qyx> hello nighters
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2020-06-08T00:55:46 < qyx> 12 LUTs of how many?
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2020-06-08T00:56:16 < zyp> twice that number
2020-06-08T00:56:18 < zyp> or so
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2020-06-08T00:57:01 < zyp> this isn't anything I'm planning to actually do, but it's a cool experiment
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2020-06-08T01:03:06 < zyp> I could e.g. hook this inline with the led control signal from the fpga, pass it through if the fpga is sending a sane looking pulse train (pulses shorter than 1ms each), otherwise override the outputs
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2020-06-08T01:04:20 < zyp> could even have it emulate a plain led for emeb_mac's blinky
2020-06-08T01:05:01  * emeb_mac blinks
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2020-06-08T01:06:23 < zyp> fun idea, but moot when I have a mcu on the board that can run the leds when the fpga can't
2020-06-08T01:07:37 < emeb_mac> could use the greenpak as the or gate / level shifter
2020-06-08T01:08:16 < zyp> yes, that'd be part of it
2020-06-08T01:09:47 < zyp> apparently single supply greenpak can run at 5V and have inputs configured to «low voltage digital», which results in V_IH of 1.127V or so
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2020-06-08T01:40:10 < kakinull> https://www.motor1.com/photo/1242428/pontiac-trans-sport-concept/
2020-06-08T01:41:22 < kakinull> https://imgur.com/WGyJoId
2020-06-08T01:41:43 < kakinull> if you google trans sport you see how the production version came out
2020-06-08T01:43:12 < Laurenceb> The Dragon spacecraft's touchscreen interface is rendered using Chromium and JavaScript
2020-06-08T01:43:16 < Laurenceb> oh god why elon
2020-06-08T01:43:23 < Laurenceb> the state of it
2020-06-08T01:44:21 < kakinull> of course
2020-06-08T01:45:21 < kakinull> it's basically similar screen that airliner seat has
2020-06-08T01:45:34 < kakinull> you can see how the flight is going but not much else
2020-06-08T01:47:01 < kakinull> it's information system
2020-06-08T01:50:36 < kakinull> clearly it's for flexing
2020-06-08T01:51:05 < kakinull> touch screen - 2020 nasa can't do this shit type of flexing
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2020-06-08T01:57:36 < kakinull> how is quarantine lurencer?
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2020-06-08T02:36:37 < Steffanx> More music and cats for kakimir http://imgur.com/gallery/8Xes8Sc
2020-06-08T02:39:12 < zyp> ordered a stm32g071-disco so I can start playing with PD
2020-06-08T02:40:30 < zyp> considered getting some greenpak shit to play with as well, but apparently digikey doesn't stock any of the DIP breakouts
2020-06-08T02:40:56 < zyp> so I guess I'll grab that from somewhere else later
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2020-06-08T02:53:54 < kakinull> nice steff
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2020-06-08T06:05:47 < aandrew> jesus fucking christ I hate C++
2020-06-08T06:06:03 < aandrew> if they'd have just let me use fucking uint32_t this would have been done a week ago
2020-06-08T06:06:27 < aandrew> but no, they want me to use std::chrono and I can't get things to do the right thing because I'm stuck in template and conversion hell
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2020-06-08T07:39:24 < Cracki> why are they dictating to you? can they at least show you how to use that?
2020-06-08T07:41:07 < antto> aww
2020-06-08T08:34:08 < Cracki> maaan worldometers.info should really be centering their 3/7-day averages. I just had to learn how to use a greasemonkey script to change the data inside the inline javascript on that site. it requires onbeforescriptexecute, which chrome doesn't support, so thankfully someone wrote a polyfill...
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2020-06-08T09:02:22 < jadew`> is the virus still going?
2020-06-08T09:03:29 < jadew`> people here think it's no longer a threat
2020-06-08T09:04:24 < jadew`> I haven't seen any videos from the greatly affected countries
2020-06-08T09:05:25 < jadew`> China, with only 4k deaths @ 1.4 billion people and state of the art censorship machines, had loads
2020-06-08T09:10:28 < Cracki> https://gist.github.com/crackwitz/30c2950ea8721ce8a3b53eaccdac1763
2020-06-08T09:10:50 < Cracki> non-chrome doesn't need the polyfill, firefox probably even fails with it, says the author of the polyfill
2020-06-08T09:11:08 < Cracki> the virus is fizzling out
2020-06-08T09:12:27 < Cracki> a supposed electrical engineer (he was so senior that I think he has grandkids already) didn't understand moving averages and phase shifts
2020-06-08T09:14:13 < jadew`> maybe he was not that kind of engineer
2020-06-08T09:14:38 < jadew`> I just had a debate with someone on discord
2020-06-08T09:14:42 < Cracki> oh look worldwide daily new cases is still risin
2020-06-08T09:14:51 < Cracki> do they finally count frica and india?
2020-06-08T09:14:55 < jadew`> it seems many people think having to work is slavery
2020-06-08T09:14:57 < Cracki> ON DISCORD lol
2020-06-08T09:15:01 < Cracki> discord is for canceling
2020-06-08T09:15:07 < Cracki> discord is for commies
2020-06-08T09:15:26 < Cracki> in discord, the walls have ears
2020-06-08T09:16:09 < jadew`> I don't care, I use it practice my english
2020-06-08T09:16:19 < jadew`> debating seems like a great way to do that
2020-06-08T09:17:39 < Cracki> just shout BIGOT!. you win
2020-06-08T09:17:55 < Cracki> NAZI! is also a winner
2020-06-08T09:18:08 < Cracki> these discord dwellers love those words
2020-06-08T09:18:13 < jadew`> the debates I had so far were very civilized
2020-06-08T09:18:21 < Cracki> so work is slavery eh
2020-06-08T09:18:31 < Cracki> sounds like these people want to be self employed
2020-06-08T09:18:42 < Cracki> what would they do all day if they didn't "have to" work for a living?
2020-06-08T09:18:59 < Cracki> sit around and smoke weed? debate intersectional butt fisting?
2020-06-08T09:19:37 < Cracki> maybe get a plot of land somewhere and start subsistence farming... or just agriculture since they're all vegan anyway
2020-06-08T09:19:53 < Cracki> then they only "have to" work for the food on their own table
2020-06-08T09:20:30 < Steffanx>  Ohno, you triggeres Cracki , jadew`  :P
2020-06-08T09:20:32 < Cracki> I guess if they want a digital connection to the world, they'll have to... gosh! TRADE some of their produce
2020-06-08T09:20:37 < Steffanx> Triggered.
2020-06-08T09:20:42 < jadew`> heh
2020-06-08T09:21:53 < Cracki> ahem, not enough commies have been stood against walls to make up for all the people who died at the berlin wall
2020-06-08T09:25:08 < jadew`> I'm off to bed
2020-06-08T09:25:11 < jadew`> o/
2020-06-08T09:25:13 < Cracki> good morning
2020-06-08T09:25:22 < jadew`> to you too
2020-06-08T09:25:27 < Cracki> dream of the rising sun
2020-06-08T09:28:30 < Cracki> oh cool, pakistan and mexico have the most daily new cases
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2020-06-08T10:05:40 < Steffanx> Off to bed jadew` ...
2020-06-08T10:05:46 < Steffanx> Get out of bed first 
2020-06-08T10:53:31 < rapha> hi again
2020-06-08T11:01:17 < rapha> so i have an Arduino sketch now that I'm happy with for the Blue Pill board and it's using up just shy of 5 kB (and which could probably be much less if I stopped using all those pesky Arduino functions). also i'm using 1 of the ADCs, 4 "normal" GPIOs (for ISRs) and the 3 16-bit timers for PWM. i'd like to create a custom board for this now. would you guys just get the same stm32f103c8t6 that's on the Blue
2020-06-08T11:01:19 < rapha> Pill or is there a smaller cousin of that which might be a little less waste of memory and periphery, yet still capable of running the same sketch?
2020-06-08T11:02:09 < rapha> whoops, sorry, the 5kB are dynamic memory! the program is much bigger, 25kB, but still much less than the 128kB available.
2020-06-08T11:04:26 < Cracki> ye just copy the design, then change whatever you need
2020-06-08T11:05:13 < Cracki> the f103 is ubiquitous and cheap and everyone has seen it before
2020-06-08T11:05:27 < Cracki> don't worry about "wasting" resources.
2020-06-08T11:06:21 < Cracki> if you go with something else you'll have to sink effort into adapting all your tooling to it. that means at the very least figuring out if the stm32 core for arduino supports whatever else chip
2020-06-08T11:07:17 < Cracki> people frequently just get sacks of a few chips they know well and they stick with that for lots of designs
2020-06-08T11:08:12 < ds2> there is the chips and then there are the packages
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2020-06-08T11:37:32 < rapha> okay, that sounds like good advice. in that case i'll hit LCSC and get a bunch of them.
2020-06-08T11:40:42 < PaulFertser> rapha: are you aware many "blue pills" come with fake stm32f103 chips from several different manufacturers each with their own gotchas?
2020-06-08T11:42:54 < Cracki> oh right, you have options. GD32 is one of the better known "clones". they are legit and they are introducing their own designs too, like the GD32V which is a riscv instead of arm cortex m
2020-06-08T11:43:37 < rapha> PaulFertser: yes, I heard about that. But apparently the markings are the same, so it's unknowable. I figure that by ordering from LCSC I have a better-than-zero chance at getting the same chip that's on my "blue pill".
2020-06-08T11:43:42 < Cracki> everyone and their fruit bat is doing "fakes" of stm32
2020-06-08T11:43:58 < rapha> Wait! They have a RISC V? Cool!
2020-06-08T11:45:20 < PaulFertser> rapha: I think the "pro consensus" on this channel is that there's no good reason to use stm32f1 for any new design.
2020-06-08T11:45:23 < Cracki> dimension your order according to how much money you have to burn. ask Mangy_Dog, I think he ordered a bunch and they sold him absolute shit
2020-06-08T11:46:46 < Cracki> picking stm32f1 for a new design is the "safe" route I'd say. you can of course give other series a look.
2020-06-08T11:46:52 < zyp> meh
2020-06-08T11:47:00 < zyp> picking f1 for anything is the shit route
2020-06-08T11:47:02 < Cracki> depends on what you need. if you already have a solution using a bluepill
2020-06-08T11:48:42 < zyp> there's so many improvements since f1 that I wouldn't pick f1 for anything
2020-06-08T11:48:54 < Cracki> maybe check out what else the stm32 core for arduino supports. the F4 support may be "too much" for your purpose.
2020-06-08T11:49:12 < Cracki> what'd you pick that comes closest to an f103?
2020-06-08T11:49:27 < zyp> f303
2020-06-08T11:49:29 < PaulFertser> Maybe forget arduino if you're serious.
2020-06-08T11:49:31 < Cracki> same
2020-06-08T11:49:32 < Cracki> f303 is fun
2020-06-08T11:49:48 < Cracki> and there are cheapish board on aliex with f303cc
2020-06-08T11:50:42 < zyp> but if I were recommending something general purpose to a beginner, maybe f401 would be a better bet
2020-06-08T11:51:03 < zyp> I believe f401 is still reasonably cheap and reasonably capable
2020-06-08T11:51:21 < zyp> then go lower if price matters or higher if performance matters
2020-06-08T11:57:04 < rapha> basically _every_thing about the F1 is already "too much", "too fast" and "too good" for me. I'm using it for the built-in 16-bit, high-kHz PWM. and the F401 seems to come only in QFP/QFN packages, so thanks, but no thanks from the small-time hobbyist building one-offs.
2020-06-08T11:57:51 < Cracki> all the f103 I've seen are qfp too
2020-06-08T11:58:28 < rapha> oh, whoops, confused my packages
2020-06-08T11:58:37 < rapha> i want the ones that have legs sticking out the sides
2020-06-08T11:58:54 < rapha> as in, no pads/balls on the underside only
2020-06-08T11:58:59 < Cracki> don't worry about wasted features really. you're already paying attention to how easy it is for you to assemble. price is also a concern, but really don't worry about "too much" ram, flash, cycles
2020-06-08T11:59:10 < Cracki> qfp is leggy
2020-06-08T11:59:28 < rapha> okay, then the 401 would also be fine - albeit twice the price
2020-06-08T11:59:39 < Cracki> I think if you don't want BGA, you'll only have to avoid the 7 series stm32
2020-06-08T11:59:39 < rapha> what i would really love would be to play with a RISC V though
2020-06-08T12:00:18 < Cracki> check out the tooling, compiler and all that, before you go for any specific riscv
2020-06-08T12:00:37 < Cracki> I'm not sure what Giga Device offer in that regard
2020-06-08T12:00:45 < Cracki> may be all chinese, maybe not
2020-06-08T12:01:21 < rapha> good thing to have a best friend who married a chinese girl and has now reached 1000+ characters in his reading skills :)
2020-06-08T12:01:49 < rapha> https://docs.platformio.org/en/latest/platforms/gd32v.html <--- doesn't look like too shabby support
2020-06-08T12:02:33 < rapha> seems like there's an SDK and you can also use Arduino
2020-06-08T12:03:46 < Cracki> huh, looks like that thing supports SWD
2020-06-08T12:05:02 < rapha> what's SWD?
2020-06-08T12:05:17 < Cracki> debug interface
2020-06-08T12:08:10 < PaulFertser> Cracki: gd32v is supported in their openocd fork with jtag.
2020-06-08T12:11:57 < rapha> seems you can't get them through LCSC though.
2020-06-08T12:11:59  * rapha tries mouser
2020-06-08T12:12:31 < rapha> hmm, also only dev boards. no ICs.
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2020-06-08T13:06:33 < zyp> Cracki, riscv seems to be well supported by gcc
2020-06-08T13:07:13 < Cracki> sure, I meant the whole toolchain
2020-06-08T13:07:37 < Cracki> including how to talk to that thing, which seems to be plain old SWD
2020-06-08T13:08:05 < zyp> for gd32v? sounds strange
2020-06-08T13:08:24 < zyp> but yeah, I've got a gd32v on the way so I guess I'll find out soon enough
2020-06-08T13:08:44 < zyp> I ordered one of the sipeed longan nano boards
2020-06-08T13:09:50 < zyp> I've also played a bit with vexriscv, ported the startup code of laks to it, which didn't need a lot of modifications at all
2020-06-08T13:10:35 < Cracki> how _will_ you talk to that board
2020-06-08T13:10:54 < zyp> haven't looked into it yet, assumed it'd use some sort of jtag-based transport
2020-06-08T13:11:02 < PaulFertser> Cracki: are you sure about SWD? afaik it's their own debug protocol over jtag.
2020-06-08T13:11:11 < Cracki> I am not sure about anything
2020-06-08T13:11:18 < Cracki> everyone else is always sure
2020-06-08T13:11:48 < zyp> what PaulFertser says aligns with my understanding, but I can't confirm yet
2020-06-08T13:11:53 < Cracki> and tbh i dgaf about that stuff, not immediately relevant to my life
2020-06-08T13:11:56 < PaulFertser> And btw, proper gd32v flash driver is in the works I'm told.
2020-06-08T13:12:37 < zyp> I'm not really all that interested in gd32v itself, I just find it useful to have a «fixed» riscv target to test laks against
2020-06-08T13:13:13 < PaulFertser> And gd32v103 is still using old shitty f1 peripherals clones.
2020-06-08T13:13:23 < Cracki> all this support fuckery still isn't a trodden path it seems
2020-06-08T13:13:42 < zyp> I intend to mainly use laks/riscv for fpga softcores like vexriscv
2020-06-08T13:13:42 < Cracki> or else someone around here would have laid down facts
2020-06-08T13:13:56 < zyp> e.g. for playing with my own usb peripheral
2020-06-08T13:14:54 < zyp> my understanding is that riscv has a debug interface standard, but I'm not sure if gd32v is using that or rolled their own
2020-06-08T13:15:01 < Cracki> I still prefer an italian-french company's bad engrish documentation (ST) to a chinese company's moon runes
2020-06-08T13:15:17 < zyp> and I'm also not sure whether the vexriscv debug interface is related or also something custom
2020-06-08T13:15:40 < zyp> true
2020-06-08T13:15:55 < PaulFertser> "RISC-V, debug version 0.13" probably
2020-06-08T13:15:56 < zyp> I'm not interested at all in sticking a gd32 in a product
2020-06-08T13:16:50 < Cracki> I'm keeping in mind that segger claimed some rv32 support (I have no fucking idea what pile of letters means what in the riscv/risc5/rv32/WTF world)
2020-06-08T13:17:27 < Cracki> for all I know, saying "rv32" doesn't mean what I hope it does, and someone is gonna be a wiseass about it
2020-06-08T13:18:00 < zyp> IMO cortex-m is great at what it already does, I'm interested in riscv for what arm doesn't allow, i.e. open source softcores
2020-06-08T13:18:43 < Cracki> ye, all the people I know who are hyped about rv32 are also eyeing fpgas lustily
2020-06-08T13:19:07 < zyp> Cracki, the cpu architecture naming is rv<width><supported instruction groups>
2020-06-08T13:19:21 < Cracki> so I'm supposed to say just rv eh
2020-06-08T13:19:30 < Cracki> is anyone doing non-32 rv
2020-06-08T13:19:39 < zyp> yeah, rv64 is common
2020-06-08T13:19:39 < Cracki> except academically
2020-06-08T13:19:42 < Cracki> ic
2020-06-08T13:22:15 < PaulFertser> JTAG tap: auto0.tap tap/device found: 0x790007a3 (mfg: 0x3d1 (GigaDevice Semiconductor (Beijing)), part: 0x9000, ver: 0x7) ... Examined RISC-V core; found 1 harts ... hart 0: XLEN=32, misa=0x40901105
2020-06-08T13:22:49 < qyx> wait what, gd32v is riscv?
2020-06-08T13:23:00 < PaulFertser> Good morning qyx 
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2020-06-08T13:24:04 < PaulFertser> zyp: is USB peripheral part of some RISC-V specs?
2020-06-08T13:24:31 < zyp> qyx, that's what the v means
2020-06-08T13:25:00 < zyp> PaulFertser, no, I don't think any peripherals are
2020-06-08T13:25:37 < zyp> PaulFertser, I'm just doing a memory mapped USB peripheral that's cpu-agnostic, like every other USB peripheral
2020-06-08T13:25:55 < PaulFertser> zyp: what about the DMA engine?
2020-06-08T13:26:32 < zyp> hmm, to be fair I haven't looked at what if any standard peripherals they have defined
2020-06-08T13:26:39 < PaulFertser> I guess different DMA implementations might making porting more involved.
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2020-06-08T14:00:08 < rapha> zyp: where did you order your gd32v from?
2020-06-08T14:00:31 < zyp> aliexpress
2020-06-08T14:01:27 < rapha> ah!
2020-06-08T14:01:29 < rapha> thx
2020-06-08T14:02:48 < karlp> qyx: gd32 is coretex-m, they put out the gd32v with the same periphs and saem part numbers other than the v.
2020-06-08T14:15:29 < dongs> niggadevices
2020-06-08T14:25:35 < mawk> gd32 lives matter
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2020-06-08T14:57:02 < rapha> okay, back to me learning how to use a blue pill :(
2020-06-08T14:57:18 < rapha> yesterday, the sketch upload via USB worked, today it's "no DFU capable USB device available"
2020-06-08T14:57:24 < rapha> what am i doing wrong?
2020-06-08T14:58:07 < srk> not booting to DFU mode?
2020-06-08T14:59:02 < rapha> srk: that means since yesterday it has forgotten its bootloader?
2020-06-08T15:01:49 < srk> rapha: typically the bootlader has a trigger like grounding a pin to go into bootloader, otherwise it loads the app directly
2020-06-08T15:03:23 < rapha> srk: i believe with the blue pill that means both jumpers need to be in position "0", which they are (and were)
2020-06-08T15:04:16 < srk> no, that's for UART bootloader
2020-06-08T15:04:28 < srk> for flashing via stm32flash
2020-06-08T15:04:52 < srk> stm32f103 doesn't have built-in DFU bootloader and you need to flash one
2020-06-08T15:05:03 < rapha> yes, that's what i've done
2020-06-08T15:05:12 < srk> look at its source how to force it to DFU
2020-06-08T15:05:25 < rapha> and then i flashed new sketches 20 or 30 times yesterday and the day before via USB
2020-06-08T15:05:35 < rapha> and today it doesn't work anymore
2020-06-08T15:05:50 < rapha> is it possible to break the bootloader again by flashing via USB / Arduino IDE?
2020-06-08T15:08:42 < rapha> hmm okay, SWD worked just fine
2020-06-08T15:08:57 < rapha> who needs USB anyways
2020-06-08T15:10:02 < srk> ye
2020-06-08T15:24:01 < rapha> hmm
2020-06-08T15:25:44 < rapha> is there a way to change the F1's PWM speed with Arduino? or will i have to switch to something else for that?
2020-06-08T15:29:04 < Mangy_Dog> i think the f1 can change its PWm multiplyer
2020-06-08T15:29:14 < Mangy_Dog> but never done it 
2020-06-08T15:29:27 < Mangy_Dog> ive never done it that is...
2020-06-08T15:37:57 < Cracki> rapha, probably same way you can take control of the timers of the atmega, sidestep arduino and simply poke those peripherals
2020-06-08T15:38:58 < Cracki> poke around in the source of the stm32 core you use (there's an "official" one maintained by ST employees and there's that core that started it all, by that individual whose name I can't remember)
2020-06-08T15:39:10 < rapha> Cracki: you're saying i can keep using the Arduino IDE and access the functions from the tools mentioned on ST's website directly?
2020-06-08T15:39:19 < Cracki> probably
2020-06-08T15:39:28 < rapha> Roger Clarke...
2020-06-08T15:39:28 < Mangy_Dog> crackl roger clark?
2020-06-08T15:39:32 < Cracki> that dude
2020-06-08T15:39:35 < Mangy_Dog> :)
2020-06-08T15:39:38 < Cracki> roger roger
2020-06-08T15:39:44 < Cracki> everyone pls groan now
2020-06-08T15:39:54 < Mangy_Dog> been watching clone wars
2020-06-08T15:39:56  * rapha groans dutifully
2020-06-08T15:40:00 < Mangy_Dog> the droids are the painful comic relief
2020-06-08T15:40:08 < rapha> Okay, so perhaps best to go with the official one.
2020-06-08T15:40:55 < Cracki> I'd expect them to do the arduino millis() and delay stuff using systick, so all the timers are free for you to mess with
2020-06-08T15:41:30 < Cracki> https://github.com/stm32duino/Arduino_Core_STM32/tree/master/cores/arduino
2020-06-08T15:41:53 < Cracki> I think you can stay within the core's api. they define a bunch of stuff there.
2020-06-08T15:42:18 < strata> Jimmi F. Cracki Core for STM32. JFC! It's fast!
2020-06-08T15:42:21 < Cracki> wonder where they document that stuff
2020-06-08T15:42:28 < Cracki> who
2020-06-08T15:43:29 < rapha> Well, there is a HardwareTimer.{h,cpp}
2020-06-08T15:43:32  * rapha looks
2020-06-08T15:43:32 < Cracki> https://github.com/stm32duino/wiki/wiki/HardwareTimer-library
2020-06-08T15:43:48 < Cracki> >access to part of STM32 hardware Timer feature
2020-06-08T15:43:50 < rapha> "stm32yyxx_ll_tim.h"
2020-06-08T15:43:56 < rapha> is included
2020-06-08T15:44:01 < rapha> does that look familiar to you?
2020-06-08T15:44:02 < Cracki> don't bother with that yet, that's stm32 hal/ll
2020-06-08T15:44:06 < rapha> okay
2020-06-08T15:44:14 < Cracki> look at the stm32 wiki link there
2020-06-08T15:44:21 < Cracki> possibly it exposes what you need
2020-06-08T15:44:30 < rapha> void setPrescaleFactor(uint32_t prescaler); <-- maybe that
2020-06-08T15:44:36 < Cracki> yes it does,     void setPrescaleFactor(uint32_t prescaler); // set prescaler register (which is factor value - 1) 
2020-06-08T15:45:03 < Cracki> yes, stm32 timer prescalers aren't selected powers of two, they're any number
2020-06-08T15:45:17 < rapha> https://github.com/stm32duino/STM32Examples/blob/master/examples/Peripherals/HardwareTimer/All-in-one_setPWM/All-in-one_setPWM.ino seems helpful
2020-06-08T15:45:43 < Cracki> the *_TypeDef stuff is from stm32 hal/ll
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2020-06-08T15:49:45 < rapha> trying with the builtin LED (seems to be on PB13) but so far no luck
2020-06-08T15:50:52 < rapha> PC*
2020-06-08T15:55:04 < rapha> shame, seems that example is broken
2020-06-08T15:55:24 < dongs> PC13 is not supposed to be used for driving anything high current
2020-06-08T15:56:22 < rapha> dongs: that's definitely the pin for the builtin LED on the "blue pill" though. curiously enough its inverted.
2020-06-08T15:56:40 < rapha> and that's one really bright LED. need to stop looking into it.
2020-06-08T15:57:12 < zyp> hmm, maybe sinking is ok, not sure if the limit is only on sourcing
2020-06-08T15:57:24 < Cracki> it's a blue led eh? likely doesn't draw that much power
2020-06-08T15:57:29 < rapha> no, green
2020-06-08T15:57:34 < Cracki> yes sinking has more current capability
2020-06-08T15:58:07 < rapha> "Note: Please verify that 'pin' used for PWM has HardwareTimer capability for your board. This is specially true for F1 serie (BluePill, ...)". they even mention that board specifically.
2020-06-08T15:58:21 < rapha> does anything about https://github.com/stm32duino/STM32Examples/blob/master/examples/Peripherals/HardwareTimer/All-in-one_setPWM/All-in-one_setPWM.ino look wrong to you?
2020-06-08T15:59:00 < Cracki> are you sure it's pc13? I don't think that is attached to any timers
2020-06-08T15:59:06 < Cracki> the PC13-15 are speshul
2020-06-08T15:59:19 < Cracki> oh pB13
2020-06-08T16:00:06 < rapha> "PC13" is printed onto the actual PCB, and "pinMode(PC13, OUTPUT); digitalWrite(PC13, LOW);" turns on the LED, so I'm relatively certain, yes.
2020-06-08T16:00:10 < Cracki> pb13 is only ch1n afaics. that's for complementary mode, i.e. ch1 (non-n) is used as well
2020-06-08T16:00:25 < rapha> p*B*13 was a typo
2020-06-08T16:00:38 < Cracki> great, then you have to use interrupts to set that pin
2020-06-08T16:01:01 < rapha> so the example is essentially broken
2020-06-08T16:01:22 < Cracki> why
2020-06-08T16:01:32 < rapha> because it's not working with the builtin LED
2020-06-08T16:01:41 < Cracki> well yes, it can't use hw timer on a board that has an LED on a non-timer pin
2020-06-08T16:01:44 < rapha> ah, got it to work on PB7
2020-06-08T16:01:51 < Cracki> blame the board designer
2020-06-08T16:01:57 < dongs> > designer
2020-06-08T16:02:02 < Cracki> yes
2020-06-08T16:02:05 < dongs> you think any designing went into those bluepill shits
2020-06-08T16:02:05 < Cracki> DESIGNER
2020-06-08T16:02:15 < Cracki> yes, they chose blue
2020-06-08T16:02:20 < dongs> didnt they used to ship the shit with wrong pullup on USB pins
2020-06-08T16:02:22 < rapha> no, green!
2020-06-08T16:02:26 < dongs> and in general the whole board is garbage
2020-06-08T16:02:31 < Cracki> it's probably some watered down discoboard eh
2020-06-08T16:02:35 < rapha> also i'm thankful for it because i was able to afford it
2020-06-08T16:02:38 < dongs> not even
2020-06-08T16:02:40 < Cracki> yes, wrong pullup on usb
2020-06-08T16:02:41 < rapha> and it's FR4
2020-06-08T16:02:48 < rapha> and correct pullup
2020-06-08T16:02:51 < rapha> all for 3€
2020-06-08T16:03:09 < Cracki> I think the bluepills are derivatives of the "maple leaf mini", which was actually designed by westerners and has all the right stuff on it
2020-06-08T16:03:20 < rapha> yes, that's what they say on the internets
2020-06-08T16:04:00 < Cracki> I only ever bought maple leaves because I didn't trust those bluepills (also because politically offensive to make people take the bluepill)
2020-06-08T16:04:24 < rapha> the latter i can't argue with :P
2020-06-08T16:04:39 < rapha> sooo
2020-06-08T16:04:48 < rapha> MyTim->setPWM(channel, pin, 20000, 1); is 1% duty cycle at 20kHz, correct?
2020-06-08T16:04:58 < dongs> waht
2020-06-08T16:05:07 < Cracki> they made this api for the stm32duino core
2020-06-08T16:05:08 < rapha> (according to the commentary in that example)
2020-06-08T16:05:12 < dongs> nobody uses wahtever garbage middleware youre using in here
2020-06-08T16:05:23 -!- funnel [~funnel@unaffiliated/espiral] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds]
2020-06-08T16:05:28 < rapha> thank you for your kind words dear sir
2020-06-08T16:05:34 < dongs> no problem
2020-06-08T16:05:46 < Cracki> he's a pro, he only uses keil
2020-06-08T16:05:49 < rapha> "they" seem to be ST employees apparently
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2020-06-08T16:05:58 < rapha> what's keil?
2020-06-08T16:05:59 < Cracki> yes, ST massively throws people at this
2020-06-08T16:06:20 < Cracki> keil is a company, keil makes something called MDK, which is an "SDK" that includes an IDE they make themselves
2020-06-08T16:06:29 < rapha> dongs: would you approve of something like https://github.com/satoshinm/pill_blink/blob/master/opencm/pill_blink.c more?
2020-06-08T16:06:35 < Cracki> the ARM ecosystem is... "diverse"
2020-06-08T16:06:53 < rapha> i see
2020-06-08T16:06:59 < Cracki> nop loops
2020-06-08T16:07:01 < Cracki> heh
2020-06-08T16:07:13 < Cracki> it uses libopencm3, some people here will like that
2020-06-08T16:07:20 < rapha> those, even i who only does Ruby for a day job, understand
2020-06-08T16:07:20 < Cracki> nice and tidy, eh?
2020-06-08T16:08:09  * rapha wanders off looking for a libopencm3 example of how to set PWM frequency and duty cycle
2020-06-08T16:08:24 -!- mirage335 [~mirage335@2001:470:8ede:0:216:3eff:fe97:ac6d] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds]
2020-06-08T16:08:51 < Cracki> if you want to stay inside arduino, you'll get to use stm32 hal/ll and the stm32duino api, but libopencm3 is likely not included in that
2020-06-08T16:09:08 < rapha> hmmm okay
2020-06-08T16:09:09 < Cracki> https://github.com/libopencm3/libopencm3-examples/blob/master/examples/stm32/f4/stm32f4-discovery/timer/timer.c
2020-06-08T16:09:18 < Cracki> oh lol it's morsing
2020-06-08T16:09:37 < Cracki> still, tidy code
2020-06-08T16:09:53 < rapha> right now i'm annoyed at that setPWM() function because 0-100% is simply not fine-grained enough. i want to be able to set between 0 and 65353.
2020-06-08T16:10:16 < Cracki> it's tardweeno level api, it's supposed to be simple
2020-06-08T16:10:26 < Cracki> find an stm32 hal example for using timers
2020-06-08T16:10:27 < rapha> but come on, not THAT simple
2020-06-08T16:10:33  * rapha searches
2020-06-08T16:10:36 < Cracki> the stm32duino code already showed you how to get a handle on the timer peripheral
2020-06-08T16:10:51 < rapha> ah you mean https://github.com/stm32duino/Arduino_Core_STM32/blob/master/cores/arduino/HardwareTimer.cpp
2020-06-08T16:11:11 < Cracki> the example, not the source
2020-06-08T16:11:16 < rapha> that again is quite advanced, but let me try and read and maybe understand a little
2020-06-08T16:11:22 < zyp> so, uh, if I want single header receptacle housings, what do I get?
2020-06-08T16:11:23 < Cracki> don't read that
2020-06-08T16:11:36 < zyp> I found 65039-036LF but >$1/ea is a bit expensive
2020-06-08T16:11:57 < rapha> Cracki: you mean "channel"?
2020-06-08T16:12:01 < dongs> is that your generic dupont header thing?
2020-06-08T16:12:06 < dongs> they're liek $5 for a bag of 1000 in china
2020-06-08T16:12:13 < Cracki> TIM_TypeDef *Instance = ..., that is what you need, and then you need https://www.st.com/resource/en/user_manual/dm00154093-description-of-stm32f1-hal-and-lowlayer-drivers-stmicroelectronics.pdf
2020-06-08T16:12:21 < rapha> a PDF!
2020-06-08T16:12:53 < Cracki> some more recipes (for stm32f4 specifically) https://visualgdb.com/tutorials/arm/stm32/timers/hal/
2020-06-08T16:12:55 < zyp> dongs, yes, but I don't wanna wait for china shipping
2020-06-08T16:13:31 < Cracki> something a little easier to read: https://simonmartin.ch/resources/stm32/dl/STM32%20Tutorial%2002%20-%20PWM%20Generation%20using%20HAL%20(and%20FreeRTOS).pdf
2020-06-08T16:13:36 < Cracki> (ignore the freertos parts)
2020-06-08T16:14:26 < Cracki> and don't think too hard about the "MX" named stuff. that's generated by cubemx. all you need are these config structures and the calls using them
2020-06-08T16:14:55 < zyp> heh, apparently I can go buy a mixpack of the housings at a local store for like $3
2020-06-08T16:15:25 < zyp> but they don't sell the metal connectors, just precrimped wires, which is not what I need
2020-06-08T16:15:59 < rapha> Cracki: first problem, there's no __TIM2_CLK_ENABLE(); inside the Arduino environment.
2020-06-08T16:16:10 < rapha> (trying to make the recipe you gave work)
2020-06-08T16:16:23 < dongs> thats MX trash
2020-06-08T16:16:24 < Cracki> hm well probably needs some header included
2020-06-08T16:16:26 < dongs> adjust accordingly
2020-06-08T16:16:28 < dongs> its cubemx
2020-06-08T16:16:29 < Cracki> and that
2020-06-08T16:16:31 < dongs>  / hal
2020-06-08T16:16:54 < rapha> well, stm32f4xx_hal.h, but that's not available either
2020-06-08T16:17:00 < Cracki> f1xx
2020-06-08T16:17:07 < Cracki> you have an f1
2020-06-08T16:17:10 < rapha> aaaargl
2020-06-08T16:17:19 < rapha> stupid me stupid me
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2020-06-08T16:20:21 < Cracki> the __TIM2_CLK_ENABLE stuff is _probably_ inside "stm32f1xx_hal.h" or stm32f1xx_hal_legacy.h
2020-06-08T16:20:35 < Cracki> in my f3 hal sources it's in Inc/Legacy/stm32_hal_legacy.h
2020-06-08T16:20:37 < rapha> not the former
2020-06-08T16:20:42 < Cracki> Inc/Legacy/stm32_hal_legacy.h:#define __TIM2_CLK_ENABLE __HAL_RCC_TIM2_CLK_ENABLE
2020-06-08T16:20:54 < rapha> i'll try the PDF tutorial you linked to afterwards
2020-06-08T16:21:15 < dongs> cracki, expecting retarduino shit to be using HAL
2020-06-08T16:21:18 < Cracki> retard raven is reeeing again
2020-06-08T16:21:20 < dongs> they're prolly still on stdperiphlib
2020-06-08T16:21:25 < Cracki> it's using hal
2020-06-08T16:21:31 < Cracki> ST employees are slaving away on this
2020-06-08T16:21:48 < Cracki> they brandish the "stm" letters in their user names on github
2020-06-08T16:22:01 < Cracki> "vpistm" is one I see often
2020-06-08T16:22:10 < rapha> (stm32f1xx_hal_legacy.h: No such file or directory, for the retarduino shit)
2020-06-08T16:22:17 < dongs> Cracki: lol really.
2020-06-08T16:22:20 < dongs> why would tehy support that aids
2020-06-08T16:22:39 < Cracki> why not, it's popular
2020-06-08T16:22:44 < rapha> because they're in the business of making money, would be my guess
2020-06-08T16:23:02 < Cracki> I was only guessing with that one header name
2020-06-08T16:23:13 < dongs> ST has shown years over years that they do noT give the slightest fuck about any customer who doesnt buy 10k of thier chips monthly
2020-06-08T16:23:17 < Cracki> use grep maybe, if you have the source, or try github search on that repo
2020-06-08T16:23:19 < dongs> absolutely ZERO fucks.
2020-06-08T16:23:36 < dongs> so their care about any MAKE:R shit has to be zero or below
2020-06-08T16:23:46 < Cracki> ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
2020-06-08T16:24:16 < rapha> and look at me, hobbyist trying to build a bedside lamp from some driftwood and a bunch of stuff bought on eBay. if the retarduino shit ends up working i'll be happy, not many fucks given about the grievance its existance is causing you, dongs.
2020-06-08T16:24:41 < Cracki> eh let him rant, it's run :D
2020-06-08T16:25:58 < rapha> Cracki: interesting, your PDF tutorial implements a method and calls it exactly the same: "setPWM()". perhaps that Simon Martin guy also works for ST?
2020-06-08T16:26:11 < Cracki> doubt it
2020-06-08T16:26:16 < Cracki> maybe they stole from him
2020-06-08T16:27:12 < Cracki> domain is swiss so he may be sufficiently french-italian but he likely speaks german and that's grounds for immediate firing (squad) in those countries
2020-06-08T16:28:54 < Cracki> btw, I change the duty cycles of my timers by going "TIM2->CCR1 = ..." and that's it
2020-06-08T16:29:02 < Cracki> all that setup voodoo is just setup voodoo
2020-06-08T16:29:19 < rapha> wait
2020-06-08T16:29:25 < Cracki> I think there are HAL_... routines too but eh
2020-06-08T16:29:34 < rapha> i'm German and i've vacationed in France and I'm still alive
2020-06-08T16:29:55 < Cracki> no baguette over the skull?
2020-06-08T16:30:17 < Cracki> next time wave a german flag, they may wave the table cloth in return :>
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2020-06-08T16:30:47 < rapha> yeah, having trouble telling the signal (what to do after getting the "*Instance") apart from the noise (all that setup voodoo)
2020-06-08T16:30:51 < rapha> well
2020-06-08T16:31:12 < rapha> if you go to France and ask "good morning, one baguette please" in English you WILL most likely get it over the skull
2020-06-08T16:31:19 < Cracki> well you need HWL_TIM_PWM_Start at least
2020-06-08T16:31:37 < Cracki> HAL*
2020-06-08T16:32:03 < rapha> but even a simple "desolee, je ne parle pas beaucoup d'francais" before that will yield you into really nice and pleasant encounters
2020-06-08T16:32:39 < Cracki> you probably want that sConfigOC stuff and _ConfigChannel so it knows to actually output something, and you need the timer.Init.Period too for the timer's frequency
2020-06-08T16:33:04 < Cracki> they know how to preserve their culture. more nations should be like that.
2020-06-08T16:34:44 < Cracki> I actually like true foreigners more than those that were born here but look foreign. if you talk at them in english instead of local language, they're all offended and huffy because such racism. bitch when I'm dealing with dozens of peopel looking like you and all of them don't speak local language, I *WILL* employ the sensible heuristic of greeting you in english instead.
2020-06-08T16:35:18 < rapha> my girlfriend is from India and whenever the topic of culture comes up in a negative context, it ends up turning out that was the culture of the *family*, not the *country*. i've learned to tread carefully around that term.
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2020-06-08T16:35:48 < Cracki> I will tread on anything that isn't a snake.
2020-06-08T16:35:56 < rapha> lol
2020-06-08T16:35:59 < rapha> btw
2020-06-08T16:36:11 < rapha> i've taken to not asking strangers for the way in German in Berlin anymore
2020-06-08T16:36:20 < rapha> English has a much higher hit-miss-ratio
2020-06-08T16:36:32 < rapha> and that's "my" country's capital, soooo ....
2020-06-08T16:36:43 < Cracki> lol berlin is one of those wordly cosmopolitan shitholes where you get stabbed
2020-06-08T16:36:58 < Cracki> you guys should put a wall around that place
2020-06-08T16:37:07 < rapha> we kiiinda had one there
2020-06-08T16:37:15 < rapha> my dad still keeps a peace of it on display at home
2020-06-08T16:37:26 < Cracki> which side was he on
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2020-06-08T16:37:39 < Cracki> or rather, which side of the wall did he live on
2020-06-08T16:37:56 < rapha> but yeah, the next hipster to address me in informal voice even though we've never met will see me vanish quickly
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2020-06-08T16:38:13 < rapha> he lived in West Berlin (he's from Bavaria)
2020-06-08T16:38:49 < rapha> when i came to visit we would often go to the wall, climb one of those stair thingies they had standing around there and peek over
2020-06-08T16:38:54 < rapha> was kinda surreal, even as a kid
2020-06-08T16:39:53 < Cracki> westerners have no idea what it was like in the soviet union
2020-06-08T16:40:22 < Cracki> and now the same shit comes back and all the westerners have *no clue*
2020-06-08T16:41:12 < rapha> you from the UK?
2020-06-08T16:43:12 < rapha> (also, i dunno ... it's still it's own kind of bad in modern-day Russia. but i've never been. i do know some of the Arab countries, and of those Syria used to be "socialist" in quotation marks and Syrians you meet now say how much they wish the civil war had never started ... but then, before the war, you had friends, family members, whatever, just vanish randomly, which was also an unbearable situation)
2020-06-08T16:43:52 < rapha> the end of that song is that democracy is still the least bad system we have, all its shortcomings be fucked
2020-06-08T16:44:52 < Cracki> I couldn't bear a single day in the UK. it's a meme country. they actually took the 1984 book as a manual. cameras everywhere, the bobbies punishing rape victims instead of the perps, you need a LOLcense for everything including cutlery, ...
2020-06-08T16:45:38 < Cracki> not to mention london is one of those cosmopolitan shitholes
2020-06-08T16:45:46 < rapha> beautiful landscape tho, always loved roadtrips there
2020-06-08T16:46:14 < Cracki> if today's brit's grandparents came back and looked around, they'd think they lost the second world war
2020-06-08T16:46:26 < Cracki> *brits'
2020-06-08T16:46:42 < rapha> Cracki: what's the difference between TIM_TypeDef and TIM_HandleTypeDef and how do I cast the former to the latter?
2020-06-08T16:47:01 < Cracki> good question, no clue, try looking in the hal docs pdf
2020-06-08T16:47:19 < Cracki> maybe one is a pointer to the other, would be my first hypothesis
2020-06-08T16:47:43 < rapha> aha, it _includes_ a TIM_TypeDef as the first field
2020-06-08T16:47:47 < rapha> plus other stuff
2020-06-08T16:47:53 < rapha> (page 469)
2020-06-08T16:48:46 < rapha> okay, my C-fu isn't up to snuff for this
2020-06-08T16:49:48 < rapha> i don't know how to build the TIM_HandleTypeDef expected by the code used by the Swiss guy out of the TIM_TypeDef coming out of the example by the ST Arduino people
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2020-06-08T16:53:54 < zyp> jpa-, just ordered some cheap stuff I need from farnell, so I threw in a greenpak devboard and a sample kit of those LDO ones, then I'll see if they're any good
2020-06-08T16:54:43 < mawk> une baguette bien cuite rapha ?
2020-06-08T16:56:36 < rapha> qu'est que c'est "cuit", mawk?
2020-06-08T16:57:10 < Steffanx> Je ne parle pas français
2020-06-08T16:57:19 < Steffanx> Et to?
2020-06-08T16:57:24 < Steffanx> Toi
2020-06-08T16:57:47 < rapha> solement un petit peut
2020-06-08T17:01:07 < mawk> cooked
2020-06-08T17:02:35 < rapha> oh
2020-06-08T17:03:06 < rapha> non, merci, je préféré mes baguettes dorée
2020-06-08T17:03:45 < rapha> Cracki: this is where i'm failing: https://gist.github.com/sixtyfive/f78d8f60c1adba7d16746e22af8b554b#file-blah-ino-L41
2020-06-08T17:03:51 < srk> what's dorée? :)
2020-06-08T17:04:26 < Cracki> uhhh I wouldn't do that
2020-06-08T17:04:55 < rapha> srk: apparently, baked to a golden colour
2020-06-08T17:05:15 < rapha> Cracki: I was guessing so :P
2020-06-08T17:05:48 < srk> rapha: merci :)
2020-06-08T17:07:04 < Cracki> hm, you would want to copy what's going on in MX_TIM???_Init()
2020-06-08T17:07:17 < Cracki> so I guess what you do is correct
2020-06-08T17:07:25 < Cracki> except for the ->
2020-06-08T17:07:26 < Cracki> do .
2020-06-08T17:07:45 < rapha> aha, that compiled now!
2020-06-08T17:07:55 < Cracki> foo->bar is for when foo is a pointer to the structure. if it's the structure itself, say foo.bar
2020-06-08T17:08:02 < rapha> LED still dead though
2020-06-08T17:08:16 < rapha> also with 0, 0 instead of 255, 255 
2020-06-08T17:08:40 < rapha> or 255, 0, which probably makes much more sense
2020-06-08T17:08:56 < mawk> what do you do with the greenpak stuff zyp 
2020-06-08T17:09:13 < Cracki> you need that rcc clk enable on the right port, then you need HAL_GPIO_Init() with a structure, and then HAL_GPIO_WritePin (if it's just gpio, not timer stuff)
2020-06-08T17:12:03 < rapha> *brain trying to parse "right port"*
2020-06-08T17:12:07 < rapha> ah, "correct port"?
2020-06-08T17:12:23 < rapha> wow
2020-06-08T17:12:42 < rapha> as soon as you leave Arduino land, shit gets fucked up difficult
2020-06-08T17:31:28 < strata> arduinoitis? we're here to help.
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2020-06-08T17:36:58 < mawk> don't be ashamed of your arduinoitis, it happens to everyone, nothing to be ashamed of
2020-06-08T17:37:31 < rapha> strata: after hours of fiddling and head scratching i'm still looking for a way to set a blue pill's PB7 20kHz, any duty cycle between 0 and 65353. with or without Arduino IDE, I don't even care anymore. do note that i don't have Windows available though.
2020-06-08T17:38:54 < aandrew> arduinoitis, inflammation of the arduino gland
2020-06-08T17:39:22 < strata> wow is this the arduino core stuff?
2020-06-08T17:39:23 < Cracki> say (void)TIM3; or something and see if that compiles
2020-06-08T17:39:24 < strata> it's like
2020-06-08T17:39:39 < Cracki> let's try using their code for everything, but then set the important registers directly
2020-06-08T17:39:42 < strata> why even bother with adding setup() and loop() if it's just using HAL shit anyway?
2020-06-08T17:39:50 < Cracki> it's using hal underneath
2020-06-08T17:39:54 < Cracki> it's doing some abstracting on top
2020-06-08T17:39:55 < rapha> Cracki: the whole thing compiles now. but the LED remains dark.
2020-06-08T17:39:59 < Cracki> which is the setPWM stuff, strata 
2020-06-08T17:40:03 < strata> god that has to be confusing af
2020-06-08T17:40:06 < strata> just use HAL
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2020-06-08T17:41:03 < rapha> if i could find a MWE example somewhere that doesn't require understanding of a one thousand two hundred and eight page PDF
2020-06-08T17:41:08 < Cracki> did you use pinMode() anywhere at all
2020-06-08T17:41:21 < strata> rapha, you mean the reference manual? :)
2020-06-08T17:41:32 < rapha> Cracki: only in the beginning of my adventures. i figured best to not mix it with the other stuff.
2020-06-08T17:41:32 < Cracki> https://github.com/stm32duino/wiki/wiki/HardwareTimer-library#Examples
2020-06-08T17:41:34 < Cracki> those should be enough
2020-06-08T17:41:34 < rapha> strata: yes.
2020-06-08T17:41:51 < strata> rapha, yea you don't have to understand the entire thing. just the part you're trying to do.
2020-06-08T17:42:34 < Cracki> https://github.com/stm32duino/STM32Examples/blob/master/examples/Peripherals/HardwareTimer/PWM_FullConfiguration/PWM_FullConfiguration.ino
2020-06-08T17:42:39 < strata> for HAL, i use stm32cubemx to generate a Makefile project (you can run it on not-windows)
2020-06-08T17:42:39 < Cracki> all this, except different pin
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2020-06-08T17:43:59 < Cracki> they do give you multiple examples
2020-06-08T17:44:04 < strata> Cracki, why is this code using interrupts to do digitalWrite the pin on and off?
2020-06-08T17:44:14 < Cracki> rephrase that pls
2020-06-08T17:44:21 < karlp> "enterprise solution" ?
2020-06-08T17:44:27 < strata> like wtf
2020-06-08T17:44:29 < Cracki> it's using two different pins
2020-06-08T17:44:34 < strata> it's using attachInterrupt
2020-06-08T17:44:50 < Cracki> one is output compare, the other using interrupts
2020-06-08T17:44:55 < strata> no it's not it's using "pin2"
2020-06-08T17:44:59 < Cracki> yes it is
2020-06-08T17:45:27 < strata> so instead of just wiring up the pin to the timer, it's setting up two interrupts - to set the pin high or low
2020-06-08T17:45:34 < Cracki> dude
2020-06-08T17:45:36 < Cracki> read it all
2020-06-08T17:45:40 < Cracki> it's using two pins
2020-06-08T17:45:50 < Cracki> one set via interrupts, the other directly from the timer
2020-06-08T17:45:55 < Cracki> to demonstrate both ways
2020-06-08T17:46:02 < Cracki> I'm tired but I can see that
2020-06-08T17:46:39 < strata> oic
2020-06-08T17:46:45 < strata> this really is enterprise edition.
2020-06-08T17:47:41 < Cracki> I know this is a highly abstract level. you can dig into these "handles"/objects and see if you can get at the timer's registers after the rest is working
2020-06-08T17:47:55 < Cracki> get it working first, make it pretty later
2020-06-08T17:48:19 < emeb> s/later/never/
2020-06-08T17:48:21 < emeb> FIFY
2020-06-08T17:48:26 < Cracki> apparently you're missing/forgetting something when you use HAL apis.
2020-06-08T17:49:38 < Cracki> at the very least, you can pull specific addresses of the peripheral's registers from the reference manual, and literally use those addresses
2020-06-08T17:49:52 < Cracki> *(uint32_t*)0x12345678 = 12345678;
2020-06-08T17:50:42 < Cracki> someone is gonna flip their shit and demand you use constants from some header for that instead
2020-06-08T17:51:35 < specing> I would
2020-06-08T17:51:42 < Cracki> or to use what LL/HAL provide. eh. browse the docs you can find. try it. or not. whatever works. this isn't a beauty contest.
2020-06-08T17:52:27 < Cracki> the decision to use arduino means you are given apis and you're supposed to accept them
2020-06-08T17:52:41 < Cracki> working around them means work
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2020-06-08T18:00:54 < rapha> omg
2020-06-08T18:00:57 < rapha> i'm so stupid
2020-06-08T18:01:07 < rapha> https://github.com/stm32duino/wiki/wiki/API Ctrl+F "PWM"
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2020-06-08T18:01:27 < rapha> 20kHz seem to be working fine
2020-06-08T18:01:35 < rapha> but analogWrite() is 8 bit only
2020-06-08T18:01:39 < rapha> still investigating that
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2020-06-08T18:13:01 < karlp> sideeffect of arduino api?
2020-06-08T18:13:48 < rapha> karlp: no, they're purposely trying to replicate the Arduino API. where people expect to be able to write 0..255.
2020-06-08T18:15:58 < rapha> oh wow
2020-06-08T18:16:07 < rapha> just connected the actual power LEDs to that
2020-06-08T18:16:14 < rapha> this is so much smoother already 
2020-06-08T18:16:58 < rapha> enough for one day
2020-06-08T18:17:07 < rapha> thank you very much for all the explanations Cracki 
2020-06-08T18:17:56 < Cracki> yw
2020-06-08T18:40:05 < mawk> is it short for YAHWEH our lord ?
2020-06-08T18:45:51 < Cracki> NI! https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zIV4poUZAQo
2020-06-08T18:46:02 < Cracki> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R_hlMK7tCks
2020-06-08T18:46:55 < Cracki> https://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=yw
2020-06-08T18:47:33 < Cracki> oh lol the shitlibs and commies have found urbandictionary: https://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=teargaslighting
2020-06-08T19:10:31 < englishman> Laurenceb: why arent you all up in this Nikola
2020-06-08T19:10:41 < englishman> basically dyson USA at this point
2020-06-08T19:10:55 < Laurenceb> what?
2020-06-08T19:11:01 < englishman> except they are opening the dickstarter soon
2020-06-08T19:11:11 < Laurenceb> what even is this?
2020-06-08T19:11:17 < englishman> ikr
2020-06-08T19:40:45 < rapha> bye, see y'all!
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2020-06-08T20:14:36 < Mangy_Dog> Poop poop poop poopidy poop, i didnt give any where near enough tolerance for the 3d printed parts... its too tight :/ I cant slot it in.  https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/362670523181957120/719599788005261422/IMG_20200608_175842.jpg https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/362670523181957120/719599788559040554/IMG_20200608_175857.jpg
2020-06-08T20:21:05 < zyp> aww
2020-06-08T20:21:13 < zyp> looks cool though
2020-06-08T20:21:27 < Mangy_Dog> thanks
2020-06-08T20:21:35 < Mangy_Dog> ill make it fit
2020-06-08T20:21:40 < Mangy_Dog> even if i have to take a sledge hammer to it
2020-06-08T20:21:50 < PaulFertser> Too tight you can deal with thanks to a file or some such. Too loose would probably be more problematic.
2020-06-08T20:21:54 < Mangy_Dog> (i wont take a sledge hammer to it)
2020-06-08T20:22:06 < Mangy_Dog> paul some what
2020-06-08T20:22:12 < Mangy_Dog> cant file the pom that well though
2020-06-08T20:22:16 < PaulFertser> Looks really nice indeed
2020-06-08T20:22:17 < Mangy_Dog> its resistant to abration
2020-06-08T20:22:20 < zyp> also, what's up with the wall in the background? is this a half torn down kitchen?
2020-06-08T20:22:54 < Mangy_Dog> i might set my laser cutter up to just cut a line... and use it like a table saw to trim off the 2mm off the frame to avoid the corner bulges in the corner
2020-06-08T20:22:59 < Mangy_Dog> and then try and file the insides a bit more
2020-06-08T20:23:06 < Mangy_Dog> yeah old kitchen
2020-06-08T20:23:27 < Mangy_Dog> one day will likely turn this into a nice room again but for now tatty workshop area
2020-06-08T20:24:38 < PaulFertser> Nylon is also a bitch to file
2020-06-08T20:25:58 < Mangy_Dog> yeah
2020-06-08T20:26:03 < Mangy_Dog> Poms like nylon 
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2020-06-08T20:37:05 < englishman> mipi csi2 tx/rx now included in vitis 2020.1
2020-06-08T20:38:46 < antto> https://i.imgur.com/uESVWSA.png
2020-06-08T20:39:40 < kakimir> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=faTQQ-fLFgY somebody has made rocket under surface sea launch animation
2020-06-08T20:40:44 < srk> antto: <3
2020-06-08T20:43:13 < kakimir> how about removing bg in front of cats ears and face
2020-06-08T20:43:14 < kakimir> ?
2020-06-08T20:45:24 < antto> you mean to leave just the cat?
2020-06-08T20:46:09 < srk> antto: how do you produce the image?
2020-06-08T20:46:37 < antto> gimp around, kicad around, boom
2020-06-08T20:46:47 < srk> :)
2020-06-08T20:46:57 < antto> this specifically is engrave effect
2020-06-08T20:47:46 < srk> cool
2020-06-08T20:47:54 < srk> didn't know gimp has something like that
2020-06-08T20:48:18 < antto> uh, this is pretty basic, gimp is the gnu photoshop
2020-06-08T20:48:24 < zyp> mawk, well, I wanted i2c-programmable LDOs without adding a whole PMIC with switchers, jpa- tipped me about the SLG4658x
2020-06-08T20:49:08 < mawk> ah nice
2020-06-08T20:49:11 < zyp> and SLG46580 seems a good fit for what I need it for
2020-06-08T20:49:12 < mawk> I see it's much more than LDO right ?
2020-06-08T20:49:16 < mawk> it's also opamps
2020-06-08T20:49:59 < kakimir> recommend laptop for use as router
2020-06-08T20:50:07 < srk> antto: yeah, I use gimp from time to time but the list of filters is huge :)
2020-06-08T20:50:15 < zyp> kakimir, I don't recommend a laptop as a router
2020-06-08T20:50:45 < kakimir> yes
2020-06-08T20:50:54 < mawk> rpi4 as router
2020-06-08T20:50:59 < kakimir> no
2020-06-08T20:51:00 < mawk> with smart suitsh
2020-06-08T20:51:02 < mawk> why ????
2020-06-08T20:51:09 < kakimir> it's poo poo performance
2020-06-08T20:51:13 < mawk> noo
2020-06-08T20:51:16 < kakimir> it is
2020-06-08T20:51:17 < mawk> not the 4
2020-06-08T20:51:22 < srk> it's not :) pi4 is 1G
2020-06-08T20:51:22 < antto> it's called crapberry pie
2020-06-08T20:51:29 < mawk> the pi 4 has goodz net perf
2020-06-08T20:51:42 < kakimir> mawk: at least the wireless was poopoo
2020-06-08T20:51:51 < kakimir> I used it as AP for months once
2020-06-08T20:51:52 < srk> it's broadcom .. :)
2020-06-08T20:52:03 < antto> wifi is crap to begin with
2020-06-08T20:52:16 < kakimir> also it's using usb2.0?
2020-06-08T20:52:27 < srk> 4 has usb3
2020-06-08T20:52:34 < kakimir> but for wifi
2020-06-08T20:52:37 < kakimir> internal wifi
2020-06-08T20:52:39 < srk> not sure what's wifi is running but it's crapy anyway
2020-06-08T20:52:50 < zyp> kakimir, have you considered getting a router to use as a router?
2020-06-08T20:52:55 < kakimir> no
2020-06-08T20:52:59 < antto> hahaah
2020-06-08T20:53:02 < zyp> maybe worth a thought
2020-06-08T20:53:02 < srk> too mainstream
2020-06-08T20:53:05 < kakimir> why would I do that?
2020-06-08T20:53:13 < kakimir> laptop is the bestest
2020-06-08T20:53:13 < antto> THAT'S.. PERVERTED
2020-06-08T20:53:21 < antto> craptops are crap
2020-06-08T20:53:29 < antto> use a comput0r
2020-06-08T20:53:30 < kakimir> maybe small desktop
2020-06-08T20:53:33 < kakimir> then
2020-06-08T20:54:54 < antto> smol dextop
2020-06-08T20:56:13 < antto> does senpai approve craptops?
2020-06-08T21:40:01 < Steffanx> Hello antto how is your day today?
2020-06-08T21:41:38 < antto> very monday-ish
2020-06-08T21:41:53 < antto> kicading all day
2020-06-08T21:42:01 < Steffanx> back in the office yet?
2020-06-08T21:42:03 < antto> aka fun
2020-06-08T21:42:28 < antto> uh.. job == office
2020-06-08T21:42:33 < antto> home != office
2020-06-08T21:42:53 < Steffanx> Yes.
2020-06-08T21:48:56 < PaulFertser> kakimir: what makes laptop a better AP+router than a regular AP+router SOHO device for you?
2020-06-08T21:50:04 < PaulFertser> Just the "integrated UPS"?
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2020-06-08T22:35:50 < kakimir> no
2020-06-08T22:35:58 < kakimir> universal extendable hardware
2020-06-08T22:36:09 < kakimir> decent linux
2020-06-08T22:36:22 < kakimir> drivers for shit
2020-06-08T22:36:27 < zyp> oh, just saw that the greenpak LDOs also have a bypass mode to act as a load switch
2020-06-08T22:36:48 < zyp> that's perfect, can do 3.3/2.5/1.8V out from 3.3V supply then
2020-06-08T22:38:58 < zyp> planning to use one to feed some of the IO voltages of the clock synth, so I can configure which clock standard I'm outputting on the external interfaces
2020-06-08T22:45:28 < Steffanx> should i add  "zyp's blog" to the topic zyp? :P
2020-06-08T22:46:51 < zyp> sorry, am I that uninteresting?
2020-06-08T22:47:02 < Steffanx> naah, that's not what i said ;)
2020-06-08T22:47:43 < Steffanx> Im just taking it as: you thinking out loud.
2020-06-08T22:57:13 < englishman> i2c everything
2020-06-08T22:57:15 < englishman> i2c load switches
2020-06-08T22:57:22 < qyx> don't silence him Steffanx 
2020-06-08T22:57:28 < englishman> not enough address space? i2c i2c multiplexer
2020-06-08T22:57:40 < englishman> i2^2c
2020-06-08T22:57:42 < Steffanx> lol qyx. 
2020-06-08T22:57:43 < qyx> he is a deep well of innovation and knowledge
2020-06-08T22:57:58 < englishman> yeah there are plenty of other people to silence first
2020-06-08T22:58:35 < Steffanx> qyx, sure, but also a bit hard to follow when you dont read it all.
2020-06-08T23:00:10 < kakimir> waffle silencer
2020-06-08T23:02:14 < qyx> like me
2020-06-08T23:04:13 < zyp> Steffanx, obvious solution: read it all
2020-06-08T23:05:07 < englishman> working on open source fpga projects keeps our favourite nord away from doing stuff like this https://i.imgur.com/EML0dIl.jpg
2020-06-08T23:05:11 < Steffanx> id have to filter all the noise, too hard :P
2020-06-08T23:06:31 < qyx> whats those PET clamps?
2020-06-08T23:08:48 < qyx> zyp: I wasn't able to extract any useful information out of the greenpak web, are there parts able to do i2c configurable buck-boost converter with an output range of 3.3V/5V/12V?
2020-06-08T23:10:14 < zyp> no
2020-06-08T23:11:04 < zyp> I mean, I guess that depends what you need
2020-06-08T23:11:30 < zyp> I guess the one with halfbridges could possibly be set up to do that
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2020-06-08T23:23:10 < kakimir> okay it's time to drink beer
2020-06-08T23:23:26 < Steffanx> No, its work time tomorrow.
2020-06-08T23:23:38 < kakimir> so?
2020-06-08T23:23:58 < kakimir> workman needs his night drink
2020-06-08T23:26:23 < kakimir> did you know builders of pyramids were paid with beer
2020-06-08T23:26:36 < kakimir> work during day
2020-06-08T23:26:43 < kakimir> drink beer in evenings
2020-06-08T23:26:45 < Steffanx> Slaves get paid?
2020-06-08T23:27:01 < kakimir> not slaves
2020-06-08T23:27:45 < kakimir> you know you cannot just brute force such pile of stones
2020-06-08T23:28:36 < kakimir> it's massive
2020-06-08T23:31:23 < kakimir> in movies they have ramps and slaves pulling stones up in rhythm of whip
2020-06-08T23:32:19 < kakimir> ramps themself would have been project comparable to the pyramids
2020-06-08T23:33:09 < kakimir> not just that you need to build ramps
2020-06-08T23:34:03 < kakimir> that are in volume comparable to the pyramid being build and ramps need to be removed after build is ready
2020-06-08T23:35:00 < friendofafriend> (When you see "ramps" and think stepper motors first.)
2020-06-08T23:35:11 < kakimir> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dh4uUt3Bbjs
2020-06-08T23:35:15 < PaulFertser> kakimir: there're good powerful small x86 boards available for that usecase
2020-06-08T23:35:41 < kakimir> usb3 and one or multiple pcie?
2020-06-08T23:35:52 < PaulFertser> Yes
2020-06-08T23:36:02 < zyp> kakimir, the seeed board that I've got is probably usable
2020-06-08T23:36:11 < kakimir> does the name end with *pi?
2020-06-08T23:36:22 < zyp> https://www.seeedstudio.com/ODYSSEY-X86J4105864-p-4447.html
2020-06-08T23:36:30 < PaulFertser> I would be surprised to see an x86 board called *pi :)
2020-06-08T23:36:48 < zyp> PaulFertser, atomic pi?
2020-06-08T23:37:00 < PaulFertser> :)
2020-06-08T23:37:57 < PaulFertser> https://www.supermicro.com/en/products/system/Mini-ITX/SYS-E300-9D-4CN8TP.cfm
2020-06-08T23:38:18 < qyx> ramps sounds like ramips
2020-06-08T23:40:50 < zyp> the fpga thing that I bought that for showed up today: https://bin.jvnv.net/file/0vD5z.jpg
2020-06-08T23:41:45 < zyp> haven't done more than check that it enumerates on pcie so far: https://paste.jvnv.net/view/wlXld
2020-06-08T23:42:04 < kakimir> PaulFertser: looks expensives
2020-06-08T23:42:05 < zyp> still need to fix a jtag cable
2020-06-08T23:43:00 < PaulFertser> kakimir: well, it depends on what you really need. If you're after terminating many high-speed VPN connections etc, you just need that performance.
2020-06-08T23:43:13 < qyx> huh, huge
2020-06-08T23:43:15 < kakimir> maybe not that many
2020-06-08T23:43:22 < PaulFertser> kakimir: but there're many other x86 boards you can choose from
2020-06-08T23:44:14 < qyx> kakimir: rmb33g for 40e?
2020-06-08T23:44:23 < kakimir> maybe
2020-06-08T23:44:25 < qyx> 2 miniPCI-e, 1x m.2, usb3
2020-06-08T23:44:31 < kakimir> driver support a bit hmm
2020-06-08T23:44:38 < qyx> I am using openwrt on ie
2020-06-08T23:44:39 < qyx> it
2020-06-08T23:45:18 < qyx> and it is actually a router
2020-06-08T23:45:26 < qyx> not a random consumer thing repurposed as a router
2020-06-08T23:45:33 < kakimir> https://www.sierrawireless.com/products-and-solutions/embedded-solutions/products/mc7455/ this goes to usb3.0 connector
2020-06-08T23:46:14 < qyx> it is a miniPCI-e
2020-06-08T23:57:18 < kakimir> https://www.sierrawireless.com/products-and-solutions/embedded-solutions/products/em7455/ sorry this one
--- Day changed Tue Jun 09 2020
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2020-06-09T00:48:07 < karlp> ok, deleted my ccard and re-added it to ali, works now
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2020-06-09T00:54:34 < qyx> are you going to experience all the joys if icelandic customs again?
2020-06-09T01:00:41 < Mangy_Dog> So when using sprintf to build a string... sprintf(buffer, "huRate.txt=%i", prof[0]); Umm how do i add the character " as part of the string?
2020-06-09T01:00:56 < Mangy_Dog> i need sprintf(buffer, "huRate.txt="%i"", prof[0]);
2020-06-09T01:01:40 < qyx> escape it with a \?
2020-06-09T01:02:15 < Mangy_Dog> ?
2020-06-09T01:02:34 < Mangy_Dog> what do you mean?
2020-06-09T01:02:44 < qyx> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Escape_sequences_in_C
2020-06-09T01:04:51 -!- c10ud^^ [~c10ud@emesene/dictator/c10ud] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds]
2020-06-09T01:05:52 < Mangy_Dog> if i understand that wiki correctly I should use \"  ?
2020-06-09T01:06:02 < PaulFertser> Mangy_Dog: better use snprintf to minimise risks with the future bugs
2020-06-09T01:06:03 < qyx> yes
2020-06-09T01:06:29 < Mangy_Dog> why did you say \? then?
2020-06-09T01:06:47 < Mangy_Dog> paul whats the difference?
2020-06-09T01:07:31 < PaulFertser> Mangy_Dog: ? because it seems like your question is probably not what it looks like, it's too surprising.
2020-06-09T01:07:58 < PaulFertser> Mangy_Dog: snprintf to guarantee not writing past the buffer in case you later make that format string longer or some such.
2020-06-09T01:08:09 < Mangy_Dog> oh
2020-06-09T01:08:25 < Mangy_Dog> in this case theres no real risk of that with this project
2020-06-09T01:08:34 < Mangy_Dog> but might just change it anyway
2020-06-09T01:08:34 < Mangy_Dog> :D
2020-06-09T01:09:58 < Mangy_Dog> \" worked
2020-06-09T01:10:00 < Mangy_Dog> btw
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2020-06-09T01:19:22 < karlp> qyx: well, nothing new there, always joy with customs.
2020-06-09T01:19:32 < karlp> still waiting for tiptrans to sort out my czech customs issue at the moment :)
2020-06-09T01:22:42 < karlp> hrm, just discovered that this silly usb hub ended up at 104mm wide, so more expensive
2020-06-09T01:22:46 < karlp> fuck it.
2020-06-09T01:23:05 < qyx> try jlcpcb
2020-06-09T01:23:10 < qyx> oh
2020-06-09T01:23:25 < qyx> idk, they didn't have the 100mm constraint
2020-06-09T01:23:59 < qyx> but your hub is not 2L
2020-06-09T01:25:56 < karlp> wat, shit, jlc is only doing dhl express?!
2020-06-09T01:26:10 < qyx> no, since when?
2020-06-09T01:26:12 < karlp> yeah, but even on 4l stayign within 100x100 is cheaper
2020-06-09T01:26:18 < karlp> for me right now to iceland at least
2020-06-09T01:26:25 < qyx> lets check
2020-06-09T01:26:56 < Mangy_Dog> fuck me eclipse seriously??? So i installed a formatter plugin... Ok its an old one, but some how.... IT TOTALLY BROKE THE INDEXER!!!!!11!!11 IE errors everywhere, still would build but just no auto complete...  how is something thats just meant to format text do something that bad? anyway managed to remove the plugin and things appear to be working again
2020-06-09T01:27:10 < qyx> https://i.imgur.com/G55RtMX.png
2020-06-09T01:27:24 < karlp> even to czech for me right now it's only dhl and "yunexpress" for $20 too
2020-06-09T01:27:39 < karlp> blah I don't hve those options
2020-06-09T01:27:44 < karlp> maybe this can wait a bit longer again thenb
2020-06-09T01:27:50 < karlp> parts are still in czech limbo anyway
2020-06-09T01:28:00 < karlp> gerbers are made now at least :)
2020-06-09T01:28:18 < yaqwsx> karlp: I tried Europacket - basically they send the packet to their partner in Germany via DHL Express, charge you toll and then send it via regular mail.
2020-06-09T01:28:43 < yaqwsx> The main advantage is that you don't pay 550 CZK fee to DHL for dealing with the toll for you.
2020-06-09T01:29:45 < karlp> yaqwsx: no, I simply don't have the option: https://bin.jvnv.net/file/i9IDt.png
2020-06-09T01:31:12 < karlp> using my tiptrans czech address I get options for europacket, but with prepaid customs and it's even worse than direct to iceland, and would still need reshipping anyway :)
2020-06-09T01:39:03 < jadew`> maybe the post is stuck, so they removed the option temporarily
2020-06-09T01:40:18 < jadew`> for me express shipping makes sense for anything higher than 10 EUR
2020-06-09T01:41:01 < Mangy_Dog> Heres an odd question.... so I have a function that takes an array from a pointer... Is it possible to do a if(varPointer == thisVar) ?
2020-06-09T01:41:14 < Mangy_Dog> to determin what variable was passed?
2020-06-09T01:41:24 < jadew`> yes
2020-06-09T01:41:30 < jadew`> you can compare two pointers
2020-06-09T01:41:33 < jadew`> if that's what you're asking
2020-06-09T01:41:48 < Mangy_Dog> not the values
2020-06-09T01:41:54 < jadew`> if they point to the same memory address, then they'll be the same
2020-06-09T01:41:54 < Mangy_Dog> the veriables
2020-06-09T01:41:58 < Mangy_Dog> variables
2020-06-09T01:42:01 < jadew`> C/C++?
2020-06-09T01:42:04 < Mangy_Dog> c++
2020-06-09T01:42:05 < Mangy_Dog> yeah
2020-06-09T01:42:12 < jadew`> if (*pt1 == val)
2020-06-09T01:42:18 < jadew`> or *pt1 == *pt2
2020-06-09T01:42:33 < Mangy_Dog> soo 
2020-06-09T01:43:59 < Mangy_Dog> var1[10}={1,2,3,4,5...........    function(*pointer) {if(pointer==var1){} if(pointer==var2){} will work?
2020-06-09T01:44:28 < jadew`> you're comparing pointers
2020-06-09T01:44:35 < jadew`> you have to dereference them
2020-06-09T01:44:40 < Mangy_Dog> so if i call the function ... function(var1) passiing it 
2020-06-09T01:44:57 < jadew`> you want to compare the contents of the array?
2020-06-09T01:45:03 < Mangy_Dog> no
2020-06-09T01:45:13 < jadew`> what do you want to compare?
2020-06-09T01:45:20 < Mangy_Dog> i want to figure out what array has been passed into the function
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2020-06-09T01:45:32 < jadew> then you want to compare the pointers
2020-06-09T01:45:38 < jadew> so yeah, pointer == var1 is fine
2020-06-09T01:45:46 < Mangy_Dog> ok
2020-06-09T01:46:18 < Mangy_Dog> basically the function is just building some data on a UI.... and i want a cheap easy way to detect what profile has been selected
2020-06-09T01:46:58 < Mangy_Dog> but truth be told... i might just end up having another variable as an indexer :p
2020-06-09T01:47:05 < Mangy_Dog> anyway
2020-06-09T01:47:34 < Mangy_Dog> its not like i running out of space and scraping for every bit of memory i can
2020-06-09T01:47:52 < jadew> that's a weird analogy
2020-06-09T01:50:58 < Mangy_Dog> ok apparantly doesnt work
2020-06-09T01:51:03 < Mangy_Dog> at least not in switch case
2020-06-09T01:53:14 < Mangy_Dog> but if does work
2020-06-09T01:53:19 < Mangy_Dog> strange
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2020-06-09T01:57:31 < PaulFertser> Probably you're forgetting break; in switch cases?
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2020-06-09T01:58:37 < Mangy_Dog> nope
2020-06-09T02:00:45 < PaulFertser> switch has no magic, just compares integers
2020-06-09T02:00:49 < Laurenceb_> cant happen here meme intensifies
2020-06-09T02:00:58 < Laurenceb_> BLM/antifa were in my local park
2020-06-09T02:01:21 < Laurenceb_> luckily they got chased out after trying to vandalize the war memorial
2020-06-09T02:03:09 < Mangy_Dog> vandalizing a war memorial isnt cool but umm
2020-06-09T02:03:25 < Mangy_Dog> genrually speaking nothing wrong with BLM antifa
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2020-06-09T03:32:29 < catphish> why are people vandalizing war memorials?
2020-06-09T03:32:40 < jadew> retards
2020-06-09T03:32:45 < jadew> they are retards
2020-06-09T03:32:51 < catphish> is it some kind of weird attempt to undermine the protest?
2020-06-09T03:33:01 < catphish> or just genuine idiocy?
2020-06-09T03:33:11 < jadew> you know... that's one of the conspiracy theories going around
2020-06-09T03:33:18 < jadew> that someone is trying to undermine the protest like that
2020-06-09T03:33:53 < catphish> it seems very likely, given that it's working and genuinely dividing people on whether this protest is a good thing or not :|
2020-06-09T03:34:17 < jadew> happened in here too, when people were protesting, but instead of joining in, they singled out the offenders and pointed the cops towards them
2020-06-09T03:34:23 < catphish> but on the other hand, maybe people just want to make an impact
2020-06-09T03:34:37 < catphish> nice
2020-06-09T03:34:39 < jadew> turned out that the agitators were actually working for the government
2020-06-09T03:34:57 < catphish> what government?
2020-06-09T03:35:02 < jadew> and people found proof that they were connected with other similar instances
2020-06-09T03:35:10 < jadew> our government against which people were protesting
2020-06-09T03:35:12 < catphish> thats pretty shitty
2020-06-09T03:35:20 < catphish> jadew: what country are you in?
2020-06-09T03:35:24 < jadew> Romania
2020-06-09T03:35:42 < catphish> i know very little about romania
2020-06-09T03:35:59 < jadew> ex communist country
2020-06-09T03:36:14 < jadew> still trying to shake that off
2020-06-09T03:37:06 < jadew> I think there's a textbook or something where people in power learn this shit from
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2020-06-09T03:39:20 < catphish> lol it works though
2020-06-09T03:56:02 < aandrew> romania's revolution is still very new in history
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2020-06-09T05:47:17 < jadew> Chinese company motto: "Honesty is the basis of life and the key to doing things."
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2020-06-09T06:39:49 < jly> the dogs
2020-06-09T06:42:55 < antto> o hai therr mr jly
2020-06-09T06:43:25 < jly> heyyyy
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2020-06-09T07:43:26 < Cracki> https://i.kym-cdn.com/entries/icons/original/000/027/234/heyyy.jpg
2020-06-09T08:06:30 < antto> https://i.imgur.com/1Y5XPX4.png
2020-06-09T08:51:44 < Cracki> now the neck is actually visible
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2020-06-09T10:55:33 < Steffanx> Ohno serveur.io got raided again
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2020-06-09T12:04:09 < jadew> what's that?
2020-06-09T12:06:11 < Steffanx> Mawks server 
2020-06-09T12:06:51 < jadew> I doubt that for some reason
2020-06-09T12:13:55 < Steffanx> I dont.
2020-06-09T12:13:59 < Steffanx> Ask mawk 
2020-06-09T12:18:28 < BrainDamage> it's not specific to romania, eg the "reopen usa" protests were heavily astroturfed online
2020-06-09T12:20:10 < Cracki> I'd question that assessment.
2020-06-09T12:20:35 < Cracki> the reopeners do talk to each other but the whole system including the media is against reopening
2020-06-09T12:21:52 < Cracki> true grassroots movements are actually *not* astroturfing. astroturfing is for when systematic organization from up high is pushing for something.
2020-06-09T12:21:59 < BrainDamage> https://krebsonsecurity.com/2020/04/whos-behind-the-reopen-domain-surge/
2020-06-09T12:22:22 < BrainDamage> that's exactly what it is, a systematic organization pushing for it
2020-06-09T12:22:38 < Cracki> the accusation is only leveled to discredit and shame the people who are sick of the lockdown
2020-06-09T12:22:44 < Cracki> it's a malicious accusation
2020-06-09T12:23:09 < Cracki> if you care about conspiracies, look higher
2020-06-09T12:23:30 < Cracki> look into the organization and funding of antifa or BLM maybe
2020-06-09T12:23:34 < Cracki> those are astroturfed as fuck
2020-06-09T12:23:36 < BrainDamage> I don't know the % of the people who are genuinely interested in it, and it's kinda impossible to know
2020-06-09T12:23:51 < BrainDamage> but the ones you hear about, are astroturfed, that's the basic fact
2020-06-09T12:24:08 < Cracki> smokescreen. designed to distract from the real problems, which are the terrorists of "antifa" and "blm"
2020-06-09T12:24:56 < Cracki> an article that quotes reddit as a positive source has immediately lost all credibility
2020-06-09T12:25:21 < BrainDamage> yeah right, you're starting from conclusion and trying to find evidence for it
2020-06-09T12:25:41 < Cracki> https://www.reddit.com/r/maryland/comments/g3niq3/i_simply_cannot_believe_that_people_are/
2020-06-09T12:25:44 < Cracki> I think they do that.
2020-06-09T12:26:06 < BrainDamage> pretty sure both sides are quite evil equally, here antifa are pretty infamous because they organize protests, where fascists show up, they they beat eachother and trash the city
2020-06-09T12:26:14 < Cracki> protests for reopening are bad, riots are good
2020-06-09T12:26:16 < BrainDamage> in the end nobody but them are happy
2020-06-09T12:26:45 < Cracki> "both sides", I wish that argument wasn't excluded a while ago when the wrong side tried it
2020-06-09T12:27:08 < Cracki> I see terrorists, I call them terrorists
2020-06-09T12:28:03 < Cracki> the bad guys call themselves "anti-bad guys". that's a transparent lie.
2020-06-09T12:28:06 < BrainDamage> you're still extremely biased on one side, knee jerking to the extreme opposite because most of the media is biased doesn't give you the truth, only frustration
2020-06-09T12:28:36 < Cracki> ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
2020-06-09T12:28:38 < Cracki> suit yourself
2020-06-09T12:29:44 < Cracki> I saw that video where the latino drove towards a crowd on the street, where some attacker reached into his car and got shot for the attempt
2020-06-09T12:30:15 < Cracki> the media portray him as a white supremacist who attacked innocent people. which is worse than a lie, it's an inversion of the facts everyone can see for themselves.
2020-06-09T12:30:36 < Cracki> it's literal gaslighting.
2020-06-09T12:30:56 < Cracki> I will not be sorry for rejecting attempts at manipulation and spindoctoring
2020-06-09T12:31:22 < PaulFertser> Here people who called themselves antifa in the 90s and 00s were figting "skinheads" on the streets, yes, but I do not think they were ever damaging others' property. They were essential in protecting festivals/concerts/other events from the skinheads.
2020-06-09T12:31:54 < BrainDamage> they have trashed the streets multiple times here
2020-06-09T12:32:06 < BrainDamage> and many cars got burned
2020-06-09T12:32:13 < srk> you confuse skinheads and nazis :)
2020-06-09T12:32:51 < BrainDamage> you've just dismissed a whole article for a citation from reddit, regardless how the suspicion started, the argument should stand on its own, yet it seems you're the one biased, and claim everyone else is
2020-06-09T12:33:03 < PaulFertser> srk: well, antifa are also skinheads but "red skinheads" or whatever.
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2020-06-09T12:33:26 < Cracki> I haven't even read the damn article. I AM READING IT right now.
2020-06-09T12:33:44 < BrainDamage> then why were you dismissing it? >.>
2020-06-09T12:33:56 < Cracki> just saying, this is a war of information and I approach it knowing there are sides
2020-06-09T12:34:39 < Cracki> I'm saying that shit engaged my critical reading filter.
2020-06-09T12:34:55 < Cracki> which means any and all claims are bullshit until proven otherwise.
2020-06-09T12:35:38 < Cracki> and so far, I see them doing crazy red string maps on a wall about random people that registered a bunch of domains RECENTLY
2020-06-09T12:36:05 < Cracki> I don't even see any accusations yet
2020-06-09T12:36:40 < Cracki> they link that stuff to pro-2A orgs like that means they uncovered a terrorist plot or something
2020-06-09T12:36:55 < Cracki> obviously freedom-inclined people do freedom-inclined things
2020-06-09T12:37:33 < Cracki> >real-life brothers who have created nonprofits (in name only) 
2020-06-09T12:37:36 < mawk> what jadew 
2020-06-09T12:37:48 < Cracki> and no proof for the insinuation that any of that is NOT a "trve" nonprofit
2020-06-09T12:38:09 < mawk> what do you want to my server
2020-06-09T12:38:57 < Cracki> I feel like you've robbed me of half an hour of my life for showing me that article and making me respond
2020-06-09T12:39:44 < BrainDamage> still less time taken from skimming all your unprompted pseudopolitic rants until they've finished
2020-06-09T12:39:49 < Cracki> srsly, leftists accusing conservatives of "astroturfing" is the height of hypocrisy. everything lefties do is astroturfed and funded by big NGOs
2020-06-09T12:41:09 < BrainDamage> I am not claiming leftists aren't astroturfed, I'm claiming that one specific instance is, yet you're making a general argument against a specific one, and sites are tied to big organizations there
2020-06-09T12:41:17 < Cracki> your accusation of "astroturfing" is basically saying they aren't allowed to organize
2020-06-09T12:41:36 < Cracki> how is any organized protest supposed to look like to avoid the accusation of "astroturfing"
2020-06-09T12:41:42 < Cracki> let's be constructive
2020-06-09T12:41:50 < BrainDamage> if it was a genuine grassroots movement, you'd espect a bit more heteregeneity
2020-06-09T12:42:02 < Cracki> I wouldn't
2020-06-09T12:42:26 < benishor> iow murrica got fucked pretty bad by 2020
2020-06-09T12:42:33 < Cracki> I'd expect established NGOs to support their people
2020-06-09T12:43:51 < mawk> BrainDamage: it's not hard to imagine "reopen" movement in a facebook echo chamber setting it up all by themselves
2020-06-09T12:44:03 < Cracki> one person registering dozens of domains at once makes sense if he's involved with pro-2A NGO work
2020-06-09T12:44:05 < mawk> it's exactly how yellow vest started in france, as a facebook event
2020-06-09T12:44:53 < BrainDamage> Cracki: ok, that's a much better argument
2020-06-09T12:45:06 < BrainDamage> I don't have a good rebuttal there
2020-06-09T12:45:08 < Cracki> a bunch of people I know who have any domain at all, register domains like they buy ice cream. they hold them.
2020-06-09T12:45:44 < BrainDamage> mawk: yes, I don't exclude that, quite a few events supposedly started here on facebook echo chambers
2020-06-09T12:46:11 < Cracki> and that one guy who registered dozens of reopen* domains, he's probably thinking, "I will snatch them before the wrong person does" and I'm positive that he's gonna use them in the interest of the movement
2020-06-09T12:46:28 < BrainDamage> that was literally in the article
2020-06-09T12:46:45 < BrainDamage> however, process to intentions are impossible
2020-06-09T12:46:54 < BrainDamage> at least on a technical ground
2020-06-09T12:47:03 < Cracki> > to keep them out of the hands of people trying to organize protests.
2020-06-09T12:47:17 < Cracki> oh shit, so now that he is against the protests, he's a good guy for snatching up domains
2020-06-09T12:47:53 < Cracki> great, proof of enemy interference
2020-06-09T12:48:00 < Cracki> what's with that astroturfing now
2020-06-09T12:48:40 < BrainDamage> it's just a claim, again, impossible to know the intentions behind it on a technical ground
2020-06-09T12:48:45 < Cracki> this is the opposite of astroturfing, this is proof that the opposition is fucking with people's desire to organize
2020-06-09T12:48:50 < Cracki> https://www.motherjones.com/politics/2020/04/reopen-liberate-urls/
2020-06-09T12:48:53 < Cracki> he gave a fucking interview
2020-06-09T12:48:58 < BrainDamage> yes, I read the linked article
2020-06-09T12:48:59 < Cracki> “Liberals think I’m trying to support all these nut cases…They have it all wrong.” 
2020-06-09T12:49:02 < BrainDamage> people lies
2020-06-09T12:49:07 < Cracki> he calls them nut cases
2020-06-09T12:49:14 < Cracki> I think it's pretty fucking obvious what his motives are
2020-06-09T12:50:07 < Cracki> thanks for that article. every single time it's a false flag.
2020-06-09T12:50:59 < mawk> Steffanx: what did jadew wanted to my server ?? is he hacking me ???
2020-06-09T12:51:21 < Cracki> nobody wanted your server. you disconnected and that prompted people to joke that your server was raided again
2020-06-09T12:51:33 < mawk> lol
2020-06-09T12:51:47 < mawk> it's automatic apt upgrade
2020-06-09T12:51:53 < mawk> apparently it killed znc
2020-06-09T12:52:22 < jadew> sorry, I was eating pasta
2020-06-09T12:52:38 < Steffanx> What cracki said mawk
2020-06-09T12:52:39 < jadew> and decided that instead of watching a fashion show, I'll read whatever it's being discussed here
2020-06-09T12:52:48 < Cracki> pls show me that fashion show
2020-06-09T12:52:52 < jadew> all I understood was that there's some liberate whatever thing going on
2020-06-09T12:53:03 < Cracki> ignore that stuff, it's not good for ya
2020-06-09T12:53:04 < jadew> and someone bought all the domain names to fuck with the guys who start those things
2020-06-09T12:53:07 < Cracki> yes
2020-06-09T12:54:16 < jadew> Cracki, https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dV0EQTMD52Y
2020-06-09T12:54:38 < jadew> you can skip the first 3 minutes
2020-06-09T12:54:50 < Cracki> btw, you know the hooters restaurant chain, right? https://twitter.com/Hooters/status/1270048380140621825
2020-06-09T12:58:09 < Cracki> apropos that music at 3 minutes... https://youtu.be/07IhWD2Lr2A?t=14
2020-06-09T12:59:53 < Cracki> those fashion designers seem most successful with the least amount of cloth... less to fuck up. just throw a fish net on that flesh
2020-06-09T13:00:21 < jadew> I agree, very good clothes
2020-06-09T13:00:43 < Cracki> I'm noticing the varying hip mobility
2020-06-09T13:01:02 < jadew> they have very precise stepping speed too
2020-06-09T13:01:05 < jadew> and some of them go slower
2020-06-09T13:01:12 < jadew> while others are precisely on the beat of the music
2020-06-09T13:01:22 < Cracki> also the jiggling flesh. watch the Avatar movie, the cgi humanoids have zero jiggling flesh, not even when they jump off tree trunks and land
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2020-06-09T13:02:02 < jadew> it sparked enough weird porn as it iss
2020-06-09T13:02:08 < Cracki> humans are complex pendulums. if you're built wrong you just can't step in time with some beats
2020-06-09T13:03:48 < Cracki> I think cats would go for the bottoms with tie strings
2020-06-09T13:04:00 < jadew> hah
2020-06-09T13:05:22 < Cracki> I keep noticing resampling artefacts in the video -.-
2020-06-09T13:05:22 < jadew> they all have their parts of the songs on which they have to do their thing
2020-06-09T13:05:35 < jadew> for example at 9:56
2020-06-09T13:05:50 < jadew> we're in the middle of the show and that chick does something perfectly synchronized with the song
2020-06-09T13:06:20 < jadew> next chick is also in sync
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2020-06-09T13:09:28 < chipant> Not sure why this statement did not work .. if((HAL_GetTick() % 500) == 0) { .... }
2020-06-09T13:09:39 < Cracki> define "not work"
2020-06-09T13:09:59 < Cracki> maybe you just missed the time where gettick is a multiple of 500
2020-06-09T13:11:28 < chipant> Cracki, oh .. I should not have said not work ! That is working but not like I assumed.
2020-06-09T13:11:54 < Cracki> what are your assumptions, what did you observe, how does it violate your assumptions
2020-06-09T13:12:02 < chipant> I suppose so .. missed that particular value somewhere ... 
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2020-06-09T14:36:07 < qyx> re nb-iot, testing the sim7000e modem, in USB mode its serial com port hangs after a minute when GNSS is enabled
2020-06-09T14:38:55 < zyp> fun
2020-06-09T14:45:44 < qyx> I am not even able to scan network operators
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2020-06-09T15:35:14 < zyp> 2x3mm qfn is pretty fucking small
2020-06-09T15:35:20 < zyp> greenpak devkit arrived
2020-06-09T15:36:31 < strata> "programmable mixed signal matrix"
2020-06-09T15:36:52 < strata> hmm!
2020-06-09T15:37:32 < strata> Configurable Mixed-signal IC (abbreviated as CMIC) is a category of ICs comprising a matrix of analog and digital blocks which are configurable through programmable (OTP) non-volatile memory.[1][2] The technology, in combination with its design software and development kits, allows immediate prototyping of custom mixed-signal circuits, as well as the integration of multiple discrete components into a single IC to reduce PCB cost, size and assembly 
2020-06-09T15:37:32 < strata> issues.[3][4][5][6][7]
2020-06-09T15:37:41 < strata> is this ^^^ ?
2020-06-09T15:37:51 < karlp> did you find any other greenpak?
2020-06-09T15:37:59 < karlp> that would be remotely relevant to this channel? :)
2020-06-09T15:39:22 < strata> so it's like FPGA but not?
2020-06-09T15:39:51 < zyp> like FPGA but small and with more analog blocks
2020-06-09T15:40:42 < zyp> the one I got is basically a quad LDO with some configurable fabric and I got it because I wanted a multichannel LDO
2020-06-09T15:41:34 < karlp> (like a psoc without the cpu if you prefer?)
2020-06-09T15:41:50 < zyp> maybe
2020-06-09T15:42:01 < zyp> I haven't used psoc, so it's hard for me to compare
2020-06-09T15:43:25 < Cracki> strata, check out their little yt video on the site https://www.dialog-semiconductor.com/configurable-mixed-signal
2020-06-09T15:46:51 < strata> aur/greenpak-designer 6.21.005-1 (+2 0.00%) 
2020-06-09T15:46:51 < strata>     GreenPAK3-6 Designer
2020-06-09T15:46:56 < strata> holy shit someone put it in AUR
2020-06-09T15:47:27 < Cracki> >build-your-own-IC
2020-06-09T15:47:32 < Cracki> >package for arch and gentoo
2020-06-09T15:47:33 < strata> yea this is awesome.
2020-06-09T15:48:10 < Cracki> I guessed gentoo but it's true
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2020-06-09T15:49:04 < strata> can you build registers in these things?
2020-06-09T15:49:08 < Cracki> ... if you can believe REDDIT
2020-06-09T15:49:24 < Cracki> they have some bytes of sram as far as I've seen it listed
2020-06-09T15:49:37 < zyp> strata, register in what sense?
2020-06-09T15:50:32 < strata> zyp, say i wanted to use one to use as a crypto chip for the semtec modems
2020-06-09T15:50:43 < strata> -to use
2020-06-09T15:51:09 < zyp> I don't think it's capable enough to do any meaningful crypto
2020-06-09T15:51:19 < strata> and i load up the key into some memory. the cipher would also need some space for its boxes
2020-06-09T15:52:18 < zyp> these things have on the order of 10-30 LUTs
2020-06-09T15:52:46 < zyp> even the smallest ice40 have over an order of magnitude as many
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2020-06-09T16:13:30 < kakimir> https://www.dropbox.com/s/t9z8s1p8nxedsj9/1231258756_BC9C12D.jpg?dl=0
2020-06-09T16:13:57 < zyp> heh
2020-06-09T16:14:13 < zyp> finnish edition
2020-06-09T16:15:03 < kakimir> someone has done innovating
2020-06-09T16:15:16 < kakimir> that is pretty surekill
2020-06-09T16:19:00 < kakimir> no batteries, no crappy electronics
2020-06-09T16:22:26 < zyp> eh, it's not like mains powered bug zappers doesn't exist already
2020-06-09T16:22:27 < zyp> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bug_zapper
2020-06-09T16:24:15 < mawk> >Research has shown that when insects are electrocuted, bug zappers can spread a mist containing insect parts up to about 2 metres (6 feet 7 inches) from the device.
2020-06-09T16:24:18 < mawk> nice
2020-06-09T16:24:20 < mawk> bug spray
2020-06-09T16:24:25 < zyp> enjoy
2020-06-09T16:24:25 < mawk> right in your bowl
2020-06-09T16:24:48 < BrainDamage> here they are super popular in fairs, right next to food stands
2020-06-09T16:25:15 < mawk> that adds protein to your food
2020-06-09T16:28:04 < strata> i don't know why they need research for this
2020-06-09T16:28:16 < strata> i thought it was common sense that when shit explodes, parts fly everywhere
2020-06-09T16:28:42 < strata> it's almost like covid-19 made people more aware of common sense.
2020-06-09T16:28:42 < mawk> my microwave makes the breakers pop
2020-06-09T16:29:02 < mawk> but the weird thing is that it pops even when it's plugged into a cord extender with a switch and the switch turned off
2020-06-09T16:29:05 < BrainDamage> electric currents make things implode actually
2020-06-09T16:29:09 < BrainDamage> google z-pinch
2020-06-09T16:29:12 < mawk> so I guess it's like a unipolar switch
2020-06-09T16:29:24 < BrainDamage> so depends which one prevails
2020-06-09T16:29:24 < mawk> and the microwave does a short between something not covered by the switch
2020-06-09T16:29:41 < mawk> it was full of water vapor, so much that water was condensing everywhere
2020-06-09T16:29:48 < mawk> after the water evaporated, it was working again
2020-06-09T16:29:56 < mawk> but that's lame, microwaves are supposed to be able to heat up water
2020-06-09T16:31:29 < mawk> also just before it pops the "ground fault" indicator lights up on the breaker I think
2020-06-09T16:31:56 < BrainDamage> so it's shorting neutral to the chassis which is grounded
2020-06-09T16:32:05 < BrainDamage> and the RCD senses the current imbalance
2020-06-09T16:32:45 < BrainDamage> depending on the current load on the neutral, it gets higher or lower potential
2020-06-09T16:32:57 < mawk> ah
2020-06-09T16:33:04 < mawk> but the neutral is supposed to be tied to ground at some point right
2020-06-09T16:33:06 < mawk> outside my apartment
2020-06-09T16:33:27 < BrainDamage> depends on the earting system, not all are terra-terra (TT)
2020-06-09T16:33:31 < mawk> ah
2020-06-09T16:33:55 < BrainDamage> some are tied at the substation, some at the house, some both, and some none
2020-06-09T16:34:26 < BrainDamage> it's a compromise between losses and safety
2020-06-09T16:39:37 < mawk> I see
2020-06-09T16:40:44 < PaulFertser> Do you know that microwave ovens have three mechanical switches for the door and if they're operated in the wrong order an internal fuse blows? 
2020-06-09T16:41:17 < mawk> nice
2020-06-09T16:42:06 < kakimir> I have seen only one switch
2020-06-09T16:43:15 < BrainDamage> mine cannot have more than two, it only has two latches and no other protrusions, unless the switch is magnetic
2020-06-09T16:44:00 < kakimir> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rEoc0YoALt0
2020-06-09T16:48:46 < Cracki> tldw optical flow?
2020-06-09T16:49:38 < Cracki> indeed
2020-06-09T16:49:45 < PaulFertser> BrainDamage: two latches but three switches, one is called "control" or some such and is internal, connected mechanically to one of the switches.
2020-06-09T16:50:20 < PaulFertser> Nice, "bricked" my TS100 before even powering it for the first time.
2020-06-09T16:50:39 < BrainDamage> ... how?
2020-06-09T16:50:50 < PaulFertser> Wanted to flash better bootloader to it
2020-06-09T16:51:11 < BrainDamage> ah, I only flashed the firmware, not the bootloader
2020-06-09T16:51:18 < PaulFertser> But https://github.com/eDesignOSS/ts100-bl-flasher/releases didn't show anything and didn't do anything so I self-built bootloader and flasher, and removed everything but flashing.
2020-06-09T16:51:57 < mawk> why did you buy that in the first place
2020-06-09T16:52:10 < mawk> it's like someone found a electronic cigarette chipset lying around and repurposed it into a soldering iron
2020-06-09T16:52:17 < mawk> it's exactly the same controls, displays, etc
2020-06-09T16:52:27 < mawk> I'm sure if you open it it's a nxp chip
2020-06-09T16:52:44 < PaulFertser> I wanted something portable.
2020-06-09T16:52:46 < Cracki> I think it's stm32
2020-06-09T16:53:04 < Cracki> or maybe I'm confusing it with someone's replacement pcb that's stm32 base
2020-06-09T16:53:05 < Cracki> d
2020-06-09T16:53:11 < PaulFertser> f103
2020-06-09T16:53:15 < BrainDamage> ts100 is a stm32
2020-06-09T16:53:19 < mawk> a
2020-06-09T16:53:23 < BrainDamage> https://github.com/Ralim/ts100
2020-06-09T16:53:30 < BrainDamage> excellent alternative firmware
2020-06-09T16:53:36 < BrainDamage> which I think many here are running
2020-06-09T16:54:34 < PaulFertser> Yeah, that worked nicely (I only checked the menus, didn't give power and didn't try soldering). But then I decided I do not want to tolerate the stupid buggy bootloader.
2020-06-09T16:55:26 < mawk> if I remove the cotton I can maybe solder using my ecig
2020-06-09T16:55:46 < mawk> or vape some tin vapor to become a xan
2020-06-09T16:55:49 < mawk> xman
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2020-06-09T17:53:36 < englishman> i didnt find anything wrong with the stock firmware
2020-06-09T18:00:17 < zyp> I've considered getting a ts80
2020-06-09T18:00:36 < zyp> or was it ts80p, the new one with PD?
2020-06-09T18:00:46 < BrainDamage> ts80
2020-06-09T18:00:58 < zyp> the first ts80 was only QC
2020-06-09T18:01:19 < zyp> https://www.team-blacksheep.com/products/prod:ts80p_more_us
2020-06-09T18:04:30 < karlp> those (ts80 / ts100) appear to have ony the letters "ts" and "pen shaped" in common
2020-06-09T18:05:31 -!- dexterlb [~dexterlb@qtrp.org] has quit [Quit: Boing]
2020-06-09T18:05:59 < englishman> https://www.altium.com/solutions/academic-programs/student-licenses
2020-06-09T18:06:01 < englishman> Valid email address that's associated with your university domain. Example: .edu or .ch 
2020-06-09T18:06:06 < englishman> fucking swissers
2020-06-09T18:08:13 -!- dexterlb [~dexterlb@qtrp.org] has joined ##stm32
2020-06-09T18:11:27 < BrainDamage> my univ doesn't even have a .edu domain
2020-06-09T18:14:25 < mawk> it's only for americans
2020-06-09T18:14:30 < mawk> because they rulez the internet world
2020-06-09T18:14:37 < mawk> also .int is only for WHO and YMCA
2020-06-09T18:24:52 < karlp> so, I finally found a user for mark/space parity options.
2020-06-09T18:24:59 < karlp> it's for MDB vending machine interfaces
2020-06-09T18:26:20 < PaulFertser> More details please karlp 
2020-06-09T18:26:52 < karlp> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Multi-Drop_Bus_/_Internal_Communication_Protocol
2020-06-09T18:27:21 < karlp> it's open source on cokes orders (they just wanted to dirve pricing down) since the 90s
2020-06-09T18:27:37 < karlp> the latest spec is there, and they use the "parity bit" to be a mode flag
2020-06-09T18:27:53 < PaulFertser> Are you integrating into one?
2020-06-09T18:28:15 < karlp> no, just got a new coffee machine in the office and was briefly looking at what it woudl take to connect to it and fix it's menus
2020-06-09T18:28:27 < karlp> I believe wifi/bluetooth is the actual answer, not MDB, but anyway
2020-06-09T18:28:29 < karlp> TIL
2020-06-09T18:28:53 < karlp> 9600, 1 start, 8 data, 1 mode, 1 stop
2020-06-09T18:29:07 < PaulFertser> Fancy, so they do not use parity, it's just 9-bit words with one bit having special meaning.
2020-06-09T18:29:21 < karlp> yeah
2020-06-09T18:29:47 < karlp> which on some periphs would be a use for the mark/space parity modes I guess
2020-06-09T18:30:13 < karlp> stm32 has 9data bit support even on uart-1
2020-06-09T18:33:50 < karlp> PaulFertser: re wifi co-existance, (maybe that was on openwrt?) silabs has just annouced a talk about it: https://www.silabs.com/about-us/events/wireless-connectivity-tech-talks
2020-06-09T18:36:00 < PaulFertser> karlp: good to know. The developer said there's not much choice for WiFi modules supported in upstream Linux so they went with broadcom, and they are just arseholes.
2020-06-09T18:38:04 < kakimir> https://i.imgur.com/bUS70aM.jpg
2020-06-09T18:38:57 < qyx> karlp: lol MDB
2020-06-09T18:44:26 < BrainDamage> I bet it doesn't even support RFC 2324
2020-06-09T18:55:36 < karlp> BrainDamage: well, rfc2324 postdates mdb, so...
2020-06-09T19:05:19 < karlp> qyx: have you used it in the past?
2020-06-09T19:37:36 -!- c10ud^^ [~c10ud@emesene/dictator/c10ud] has joined ##stm32
2020-06-09T19:38:47 < qyx> karlp: it was ~10y ago, we did some coin acceptor interfacing
2020-06-09T19:39:23 < qyx> iirc at the end we used a simple parallel interface it provided (alongside with mdb and some other serial)
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2020-06-09T21:11:12 < Laurenceb> fucks sake its all kicking off now
2020-06-09T21:11:13  * Laurenceb just got back from guard duty
2020-06-09T21:11:14 < Laurenceb> keeping the graffiti squads at bay
2020-06-09T21:19:04 < Cracki> wat r u guarding
2020-06-09T21:19:11 < antto> http://www.comicom.it/wp-content/uploads/2014/10/Bulgaria-soviet-monument-painted.jpg
2020-06-09T21:19:21 < Cracki> lol
2020-06-09T21:24:11 < strata> racist monuments exist in UK/EU too?
2020-06-09T21:24:31 < strata> i can't wait until they start burning confederate flags there
2020-06-09T21:25:50 < strata> watching other countries protest and riot in outrage over american political nonsense is quite entertaining. all of my conspiracy theories about the normies being 100% cybernetically controlled by bigtech algorithms through their smartphonse have turned out to be real.
2020-06-09T21:26:51 < antto> what's racist about the monument?
2020-06-09T21:28:28 -!- emeb_mac [~ericb@ip174-73-159-221.ph.ph.cox.net] has joined ##stm32
2020-06-09T21:29:16 < strata> nothing yet. outrage still loading... i'm sure they'll come up with something.
2020-06-09T21:44:20 < antto> https://i.imgur.com/Ymbjgbi.mp4
2020-06-09T21:53:35 < mawk> I'm doing color today
2020-06-09T21:54:01 < mawk> I'm tracing out paths in color space
2020-06-09T21:54:15 -!- Laurenceb [~laurence@110.207.208.46.dyn.plus.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds]
2020-06-09T21:54:27 < antto> u wut
2020-06-09T21:54:33 < antto> pics or it didn't happen
2020-06-09T21:55:25 < Steffanx> He's back on drugs is what he meant :P
2020-06-09T21:55:47 < antto> is he sniffing colorful dust?
2020-06-09T21:56:56 -!- Laurenceb [~laurence@110.207.208.46.dyn.plus.net] has joined ##stm32
2020-06-09T22:01:24 < mawk> :(
2020-06-09T22:01:26 < mawk> no
2020-06-09T22:01:35 < mawk> I'm plotting curves in color space
2020-06-09T22:01:47 < mawk> like, take a few colors, and find a curve that passes through them smoothly
2020-06-09T22:02:31 < englishman> ty antto
2020-06-09T22:04:52 -!- catphish [~user@unaffiliated/catphish] has quit [Quit: Leaving]
2020-06-09T22:06:17 < mawk> here's a pic full of colors antto https://serveur.io/colorz.png
2020-06-09T22:07:31 -!- Laurenceb [~laurence@110.207.208.46.dyn.plus.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds]
2020-06-09T22:11:22 < PaulFertser> So apparently I have new TS100 board version and it has some trick to pull D+ low even when it's sitting in the beginning of the reset handler.
2020-06-09T22:13:46 < PaulFertser> I see three "183" resistors, clearly they can't override a fixed 2k pullup to VUSB anyhow. But probably that part of the schematics is also wrong...
2020-06-09T22:15:06 < PaulFertser> I didn't expect having to RE schematics :/
2020-06-09T22:15:59 -!- emeb [~ericb@ip174-73-159-221.ph.ph.cox.net] has joined ##stm32
2020-06-09T22:25:45 < PaulFertser> Pins 24 (D+) and 25 (SWDIO) shorted, that explains the behaviour I observe... Fuckers
2020-06-09T22:27:01 < zyp> PaulFertser, why so angry?
2020-06-09T22:29:59 < antto> https://i.imgur.com/x1bi9xG.mp4
2020-06-09T22:30:38 < PaulFertser> zyp: why would anyone do that?! And they failed to publish the updated schematics.
2020-06-09T22:31:59 < qyx> what is TS100?
2020-06-09T22:32:36 < emeb> usb soldering iron?
2020-06-09T22:35:23 < jpa-> > finnish hitman gets contracted on tor, payment in bitcoins, travels to another city to kill a person he has never met before
2020-06-09T22:35:36 < jpa-> > police track down his banana and now he is in jail
2020-06-09T22:35:54 < zyp> banana
2020-06-09T22:36:00 < emeb> dafuq?
2020-06-09T22:36:04 < zyp> explain
2020-06-09T22:36:14  * emeb encrypts his banana
2020-06-09T22:36:54 < jpa-> he used a plastic bag during the murder, the bag was found, it had a weight sticker from his home city - then it's just a matter of checking who bought a banana weighting that much on that day
2020-06-09T22:37:30 < emeb> poor tradecraft
2020-06-09T22:37:54 < PaulFertser> zyp: and I've spent plenty of time trying to "debug" the bootloader, no wonder...
2020-06-09T22:38:34 < Steffanx> ok, so when i send you my poisened stroopwaffles i have to be sure to leave no trace like that, ty jpa-
2020-06-09T22:38:39 < emeb> so they deliberately hooked the SWD to USB pins so you can't run the debugger while it's hooked up?
2020-06-09T22:39:39 < PaulFertser> emeb: in fact, debugger runs, just usb doesn't work.
2020-06-09T22:40:10 < jpa-> is SWCLK shorted to D- then? is it some hack for running SWD through USB cable?
2020-06-09T22:40:51 < emeb> cute idea - for loading initial firmware w/o extra connectors
2020-06-09T22:41:21 < emeb> but probably could have just used USB DFU for that
2020-06-09T22:41:31 < jpa-> not with cheapest of cheap stm32f103
2020-06-09T22:41:35 < zyp> need to deal with boot0 to use dfu
2020-06-09T22:41:38 < emeb> ah - old crap
2020-06-09T22:41:39 < zyp> also that
2020-06-09T22:41:50 < emeb> and DFU  needs BOOT0 pin pulled
2020-06-09T22:42:00 -!- bvernoux [~Ben@88.120.152.126] has joined ##stm32
2020-06-09T22:42:07 < jpa-> BOOT0 pull would be simple, as the device has buttons anyway
2020-06-09T22:42:42 < emeb> I'm constantly amused at how the F103 is so widespread now. 
2020-06-09T22:43:18 < emeb> lowest common denominator from 10yrs ago and all the Arduino crowd thinks it's the hotness because Blue Pill.
2020-06-09T22:43:51 < PaulFertser> jpa-: SWCLK is shorted to D- indeed! Thank you for making me check that.
2020-06-09T22:44:22 < PaulFertser> 103 has no DFU so they implemented buggy mass storage instead.
2020-06-09T22:44:36 < PaulFertser> And for the "ease of flashing" for windows users apparently.
2020-06-09T22:44:37 < emeb> naturally
2020-06-09T22:44:57 < emeb> so many crimes committed in the name of dumb windows users
2020-06-09T22:45:32 < jpa-> their buggy mass storage is less buggy than stlinkv1's mass storage used to be, though
2020-06-09T22:48:53 < PaulFertser> V1's storage wasn't problematic, you just disabled it with a quirk and it worked nicely :)
2020-06-09T22:50:54 < jpa-> yeah, because you didn't need it actually
2020-06-09T22:51:28 < jpa-> the edesign mass storage bootloader works pretty ok also if you just make a simple script that mounts, copies, syncs and umounts
2020-06-09T22:59:12 -!- bvernoux [~Ben@88.120.152.126] has quit [Quit: Leaving]
2020-06-09T23:00:55 < PaulFertser> jpa-: yeah, debugging over "USB" works indeed.
2020-06-09T23:01:04 < PaulFertser> jpa-: thank you!
2020-06-09T23:29:27 -!- Streaker [~Streaker@unaffiliated/streaker] has quit [Quit: Streaker]
2020-06-09T23:32:48 < qyx> I though AT interfaces have strict rules they follow
2020-06-09T23:33:01 < qyx> eg. they don't emit URC while a command is running
2020-06-09T23:34:02 < qyx> but doing AT+COPS=? for operator search breaks this rule
2020-06-09T23:47:46 < friendofafriend> Woah, you never AT+COPS.
2020-06-09T23:49:40 < PaulFertser> You never trust GSM devices doing anything sane.
2020-06-09T23:51:45 < qyx> friendofafriend: why
--- Day changed Wed Jun 10 2020
2020-06-10T00:00:31 < mawk> cuz cops are bastards
2020-06-10T00:01:49 < englishman> emeb f103 also has many clones
2020-06-10T00:02:33 < englishman> https://lcsc.com/search?q=f103c8
2020-06-10T00:17:51 -!- bitmask [~bitmask@c-73-215-237-27.hsd1.nj.comcast.net] has joined ##stm32
2020-06-10T00:20:14 < jadew> I thought I had a product ready, so as a final step I applied the label
2020-06-10T00:20:36 < jadew> turns out that with the label on, it's a couple of degrees warmer, and that's just too hot
2020-06-10T00:20:46 < jadew> so now I have to redesign the whole thing :/
2020-06-10T00:21:30 < jadew> it's all linear regulated, so I have to drop the input voltage
2020-06-10T00:33:54 -!- c10ud^^ [~c10ud@emesene/dictator/c10ud] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds]
2020-06-10T00:34:01 < bitmask> oh boy, my drill bits came, sucks I didnt finish the drill press yet
2020-06-10T00:46:06 -!- kakinull [b23796d3@178-55-150-211.bb.dnainternet.fi] has joined ##stm32
2020-06-10T00:47:45 < kakinull> hello night crew
2020-06-10T00:50:36 < Steffanx> Gooday sir
2020-06-10T00:51:30 -!- boB_K7IQ [~boB_K7IQ@c-73-42-129-198.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has joined ##stm32
2020-06-10T00:51:43 < kakinull> yes steff
2020-06-10T01:06:30 -!- catphish [~user@unaffiliated/catphish] has joined ##stm32
2020-06-10T01:13:01 < jadew> so... what's too hot for what a customer can touch?
2020-06-10T01:13:07 < jadew> *user
2020-06-10T01:13:35 < jadew> when I was measuring 40 degrees it was just very warm
2020-06-10T01:13:44 < jadew> but at 45, it's already hot
2020-06-10T01:14:37 -!- Jak_o_Shadows [~Jak@unaffiliated/jak-o-shadows/x-0479135] has joined ##stm32
2020-06-10T01:17:19 < aandrew> general rule of thumb is that if you can hold your hand on it, it is <50C
2020-06-10T01:17:28 < aandrew> now whether you want to codify that in a manual... probably not
2020-06-10T01:17:37 < jadew> heh
2020-06-10T01:17:49 < jadew> yeah, I want to avoid having to mention that it can be quite hot
2020-06-10T01:18:03 < jadew> I can hold it and once I touch it its temperature drops within seconds
2020-06-10T01:18:19 < jadew> but I can't sell it like this
2020-06-10T01:29:51 < englishman> what happens when your customer wants to use it in the arabian desert
2020-06-10T01:30:05 < jadew> englishman, exactly, yeah
2020-06-10T01:30:32 < jadew> I'm testing what happens with it if I drop the power by 25%
2020-06-10T01:30:54 < jadew> I think I can achieve that without respinning the board
2020-06-10T01:32:43 < jadew> it's slightly below 40 °C atm
2020-06-10T01:34:44 < jadew> temperature here is 27 - 28 °C, so 12 degrees above room temperature
2020-06-10T01:34:46 < jadew> that's not bad
2020-06-10T01:35:56 < jadew> if I gave up on the label and printed the information somehow, it would drop a lot more
2020-06-10T01:40:13 < antto> jadew wut'cha doin?
2020-06-10T01:40:31 < jadew> antto, trying to make a product less hot
2020-06-10T01:40:54 < antto> print a Dolan face on it
2020-06-10T01:42:20 < antto> for extra damage print <Rakishi_butt_[hi-res].jpg>
2020-06-10T01:42:50 < antto> wut kinda product is it?
2020-06-10T01:44:11 < jadew> http://5.12.180.177/stuff/IMG_20200610_014150.jpg
2020-06-10T01:45:10 < antto> 1) change the big name, no cojones pls
2020-06-10T01:45:24 < antto> 2) add moar surface area to ze metal
2020-06-10T01:45:42 < antto> 3) switch it off
2020-06-10T01:46:13 < antto> 4) stick it in teh freez0r
2020-06-10T01:47:34  * antto is a professional consultant, problem solver, with decades of eggsperience in a broad range of disciplines
2020-06-10T01:52:53 < jadew> it's not even my first enclosure related failure this week
2020-06-10T01:54:39 < antto> stick one of these in it https://i.pinimg.com/736x/94/70/ec/9470ec5ce3ab91e346728283af335aa9.jpg
2020-06-10T01:55:43 < antto> add a smol fan?
2020-06-10T01:55:45 < jadew> hah, that would be a good pun
2020-06-10T01:56:00 < jadew> fans are noisy
2020-06-10T01:56:12 < antto> paint it white, not black
2020-06-10T01:56:16 < jadew> and the case is very small
2020-06-10T01:56:32 < jadew> black is better for heat dissipation
2020-06-10T01:56:48 < antto> uhm
2020-06-10T01:57:10 < antto> black is not better if you're in a black car in the summer at noon
2020-06-10T01:57:27 < jadew> yeah, but it's better if you're in a hot car at night
2020-06-10T01:57:45 < antto> how come
2020-06-10T01:58:29 < antto> okay, doesn't matter, that'd only contribute like 0.000000001% of the sh*t
2020-06-10T01:58:32 < jadew> in the same way in which it is able to absorb more energy from light, it is also able to emit it
2020-06-10T01:58:44 < jadew> (it emits more light)
2020-06-10T02:01:32 < antto> fill it with thermal paste
2020-06-10T02:01:42 < aandrew> that wouldn't work. mineral oil maybe
2020-06-10T02:02:01 < jadew> well, the problem is the whole box is hot
2020-06-10T02:02:07 < aandrew> jadew could corner the market on juicy centre RF bits
2020-06-10T02:02:10 < jadew> so I guess nothing would help
2020-06-10T02:02:13 < jadew> because it doesn't have enough area
2020-06-10T02:02:32 < antto> add moar area
2020-06-10T02:02:51 < antto> tons of wrinkles on teh box
2020-06-10T02:03:01 < antto> and ribz
2020-06-10T02:05:03 -!- tonyarkles [~tonyarkle@static24-72-40-127.r.rev.accesscomm.ca] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds]
2020-06-10T02:05:03 < aandrew> ribbed for her^Wdissipation
2020-06-10T02:05:15 < antto> is the problem that it heats up? or that it might burn someone?
2020-06-10T02:05:32 < jadew> antto, that it might burn someone
2020-06-10T02:05:40 < antto> gud, i got a solution for u
2020-06-10T02:05:43 < antto> isolation
2020-06-10T02:06:02 < jadew> that costs money
2020-06-10T02:06:24 < jadew> I have to find a solution that doesn't cost too much and doesn't involve spending any extra time on it
2020-06-10T02:06:30 < jadew> I'm already spending way too much time on each unit
2020-06-10T02:06:32 < antto> contain the heat, or add a handle that is either thermally isolated, or make the box such that when you grab it, there's less contact area
2020-06-10T02:08:21 < jadew> other failure from 2 days ago: http://5.12.180.177/stuff/other_enclosure.jpg
2020-06-10T02:08:24 < antto> ghetto solution: make it water-proof, add to the instructions "This product is very sophisticated, and gives best performance when submerged into a 10L bucket of water"
2020-06-10T02:08:54 < jadew> actually, the one in that last photo was supposed to be waterproof
2020-06-10T02:09:49 < antto> does this thing have software?
2020-06-10T02:09:54 < jadew> no
2020-06-10T02:09:57 < antto> meh
2020-06-10T02:10:33 < antto> okay, in some way, force the user to take periodic breaks and put the device in suspend so it never reaches a high temperature
2020-06-10T02:10:39 < antto> or add a smol frige to it
2020-06-10T02:10:48 < antto> built-in
2020-06-10T02:12:05 < antto> replace any buttons with wind sensors and require the user to blow it ;P~
2020-06-10T02:12:16 < jadew> lol
2020-06-10T02:13:13 < antto> "are you sure you want to reset to factory defaults? (blow HARDER to confirm)"
2020-06-10T02:15:02 < antto> make a variant of the device which doesn't have this problem, make pics of it, put it on yer catalog(ue), make its price significantly moar $$$
2020-06-10T02:15:14 < jadew> haha
2020-06-10T02:15:49 < antto> then write in the docs of the main one "This device normally becomes warm, if uncomfortable - put it down and switch it off. Note: there's an improved version available"
2020-06-10T02:17:26 < antto> another solution: change the workflow of the device such that the operator would have to be doing something else, so that he'll need to have an assistant to deal with the akchual device
2020-06-10T02:17:51 < antto> the assistant will not dare to comment on the device being hot and would think "i gotta get this right or i'm fired"
2020-06-10T02:18:44 < antto> and/or distract the operator with something else
2020-06-10T02:19:02 < antto> put RGB animation on it
2020-06-10T02:19:05 < aandrew> just make the software so buggy they can't use it for any appreciable time
2020-06-10T02:19:24 < antto> i already suggested such a thang
2020-06-10T02:19:31 < aandrew> oh I missed that, sorry
2020-06-10T02:19:39 < jadew> and sell it from China, so they can't complain
2020-06-10T02:19:47 < antto> bruh i have bags of solutions, you don't have that many problems ;P~
2020-06-10T02:21:43 < jadew> what's bothering me is that I have to switch LDOs and the ones I found will require tantalum caps
2020-06-10T02:21:56 < antto> eww
2020-06-10T02:24:06 < antto> okay, enuf
2020-06-10T02:24:24 < antto> u got many possible options jadew
2020-06-10T02:25:35 < antto> bonus one: redesign it so that it can fit a "thermal cartridge" accessory
2020-06-10T02:25:45 < antto> sell it with two included
2020-06-10T02:25:56 < antto> when the thing gets too hot - swap the cartridges
2020-06-10T02:26:41 < antto> a smol fan would've been moar convenient tho
2020-06-10T02:26:47 < antto> u should fink about it
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2020-06-10T02:37:06 < mawk> I've got even more colors for you antto 
2020-06-10T02:37:09 < mawk> https://serveur.io/sRGB_CIELab.html
2020-06-10T02:37:13 < mawk> see it's working
2020-06-10T02:37:15  * mawk genius
2020-06-10T02:46:14 < karlp> jadew: gotta say, if the label makes makes your product run hotter, and that makes teh whole thing fial, I think your product idea is beyond still born
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2020-06-10T02:49:22 < jadew> karlp, it's a couple of degrees, because it has less surface area to dump the heat
2020-06-10T02:50:05 < karlp> so, it was _already_ to hot then raelly?
2020-06-10T02:50:23 < jadew> I managed to keep it in check (on paper), so I guess I'll see in a couple of days if it worked
2020-06-10T02:50:51 < jadew> well, RF stuff is always running hot
2020-06-10T02:51:32 < jadew> 12 °C above room temperature is not bad
2020-06-10T02:51:38 < jadew> it's like touching someone who has a fever
2020-06-10T02:55:24 < jadew> also, this is the worst case scenario (no cables attached)
2020-06-10T02:55:53 < jadew> once you attach the cables, more of the temperature will get drained away
2020-06-10T02:57:47 < aandrew> well shit
2020-06-10T02:57:50 < aandrew> there's your solution
2020-06-10T02:57:56 < aandrew> just specify semirigid coax
2020-06-10T02:58:06 < jadew> heh
2020-06-10T02:58:19 < jadew> that's what I'm using and it's probably one of the reasons I didn't notice this sooner :)
2020-06-10T02:58:43 < aandrew> I'm serious
2020-06-10T02:59:16 < aandrew> just specify that cabling is considered part of the heat management system for this product and your company recommends semirigid coax for best performance
2020-06-10T02:59:59 < jadew> well, ultimately I could do that, but I think I can just make it be just warm, regardless of the circumstances
2020-06-10T03:03:23 < jadew> with cables attached, the temperature dropped by 2 °C
2020-06-10T03:03:26 < jadew> almost 2
2020-06-10T03:21:46 < jadew> lmfao
2020-06-10T03:21:53 < jadew> look at this datasheet: http://www.farnell.com/datasheets/2648341.pdf
2020-06-10T03:22:13 < jadew> cheap ass adapter... Material: metal
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2020-06-10T12:39:22 < jly> gooday sport
2020-06-10T12:40:29 < jly> Now, why do ya'll wanna come into my town and start trouble? And scare all of these nice people? You ain't got nothing better to do than to come into Bill Sharp's town and show your ass!
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2020-06-10T14:06:27 < Steffanx> Im sorry jly
2020-06-10T14:07:10 < Steffanx> I wanted to show you all my new duds
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2020-06-10T15:24:39 < Thorn> any practical use for SBU pins in type C? do any common type C cables have wires for those?
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2020-06-10T15:34:19 < Cracki> >USB 3.2 Gen 2x2 (SuperSpeed USB 20Gbps)  
2020-06-10T15:34:23 < mawk> play with my sliders Steffanx https://jsfiddle.net/r42sbuwz/17/
2020-06-10T15:34:36 < Cracki> are they retarded to go from "gen 1" to "gen 2" and then NOT "gen 3"?
2020-06-10T15:35:39 < Steffanx> Doesn't work on my phone.. mawk
2020-06-10T15:35:50 < Cracki> red-green was more impressive because you see the dip in brightness where it goes straight across the RGB cube, which means it is passing closer to black along the path
2020-06-10T15:35:55 < mawk> lame
2020-06-10T15:36:29 < mawk> yeah
2020-06-10T15:39:57 < Cracki> Thorn, you got a list of orthogonal properties an "usb c" cable can have or lack? aiui you have basic power or various fancy protocols, you can have no data at all, usb 2 and/or usb 3 (in 5/10/20 Gbit/s)
2020-06-10T15:40:52 < Cracki> any more intricacies there? these fuckers do have chips in them sometimes and I wouldn't put it past them to implement "ended" cables where you have to watch which end you're sticking in where
2020-06-10T15:41:15 < Cracki> anyone got a cheatsheet for this? it's a consumer nightmare
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2020-06-10T15:43:41 < zyp> Cracki, generation refers to the signalling type
2020-06-10T15:43:52 < Cracki> yes, but why do they say "2x2" instead of 3
2020-06-10T15:44:03 < Cracki> that's not a pattern, that's insanity
2020-06-10T15:44:04 < zyp> because it's two lanes of Gen2
2020-06-10T15:44:13 < Cracki> ic
2020-06-10T15:44:29 < Cracki> what comes next, 2x2^2
2020-06-10T15:44:44 < zyp> Gen1 is 5Gb/s 8b10b, Gen2 is 10Gb/s 128b132b or some shit
2020-06-10T15:44:53 < Cracki> I'd just call that gen 4, like I'd call the one before that gen 3
2020-06-10T15:44:54 < zyp> and then you can have either one or two lanes of each
2020-06-10T15:45:12 < Cracki> so what, I can have gen1+2, or a cable that doesn't do gen1?
2020-06-10T15:45:41 < zyp> it's just like how PCIe Gen1 is 2.5Gb/s, Gen2 is 5Gb/s and Gen3 is 8Gb/s
2020-06-10T15:45:57 < zyp> and either of those comes in x1, x4, x8, x16 and whatever
2020-06-10T15:46:57 < Cracki> ic, so it's not "gen 2x2" but "gen 2 x2"
2020-06-10T15:47:15 < zyp> exactly, two lanes at Gen2 speed
2020-06-10T15:47:52 < Cracki> so... could I have gen 1 x2 (which means 10 Gbit/s)?
2020-06-10T15:48:07 < zyp> yes
2020-06-10T15:48:18 < Cracki> if that's so, why do cables with one lane even exist? aren't they wasting pins like that?
2020-06-10T15:48:33 < zyp> what do you mean?
2020-06-10T15:48:38 < Cracki> I see the point of cables that don't have the super speed stuff at all, for cheapness
2020-06-10T15:49:10 < zyp> standard wise there's only two kinds of usb-c cables (c to c); usb2 only and full featured
2020-06-10T15:49:28 < Cracki> I'm trying to figure out how much drugs they took when they decided to allow this level of variation, when they roadmapped the evolution of USB
2020-06-10T15:49:41 < Cracki> "full featured" in terms of what
2020-06-10T15:49:48 < zyp> all lanes connected
2020-06-10T15:49:53 < Cracki> there seem to be multiple full featured variants, namely gen 1, gen 2, and gen 2 x2
2020-06-10T15:50:01 < zyp> not cable wise
2020-06-10T15:50:28 < zyp> but yeah, signal integrity wise you need a better cable to run 10Gb/s than to run 5Gb/s
2020-06-10T15:50:32 < Cracki> ic, so a cable is considered defective if it doesn't have both lanes?
2020-06-10T15:51:10 < zyp> correct
2020-06-10T15:51:18 < Cracki> so if a cable has to have both lanes, and gen 2 is 10G/lane, gen 1 is 5G/lane, does that mean gen1 is actually 10G total?
2020-06-10T15:51:31 < zyp> yes
2020-06-10T15:51:44 < Cracki> or did they only start using both lanes in gen2 x2?
2020-06-10T15:52:07 < Cracki> if gen1 is 10G already, what made them do gen2 (x1) which is 10G as well
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2020-06-10T15:52:43 < Cracki> and what is the first usb3 that was 5G? it can't be gen1 because that is supposed to be 5G x2 = 10G
2020-06-10T15:52:53 < zyp> usb 3.0 introduced what's now known as Gen1x1, usb 3.1 introduced what's now known as Gen2x1 and usb 3.2 introduced this whole naming scheme along with Gen1x2 and Gen2x2 options AFAIK
2020-06-10T15:52:54 < Cracki> I'll just browse the wikipedia page
2020-06-10T15:53:09 < Cracki> I can't ask anyone to explain this stuff, it's silly
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2020-06-10T15:53:26 < zyp> usb 3.1 predates usb-c
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2020-06-10T15:53:34 < zyp> usb3 A and B connectors only have one lane pair
2020-06-10T15:54:02 < Cracki> ah, that makes sense now
2020-06-10T15:54:04 < zyp> so x2 was a possibility usb-c enabled and usb 3.2 started making use of
2020-06-10T15:55:28 < Cracki> lane pair meaning differential pair, _not_ a "pair" of one in each direction, right?
2020-06-10T15:55:44 < jpa-> no
2020-06-10T15:56:00 < jpa-> 1 lane = two wires, lane pair = 4 wires
2020-06-10T15:57:04 < Cracki> I guess I haven't followed the details of usb3. sounds like they dropped the "bus" thing
2020-06-10T15:57:46 < Cracki> at those speeds I think it might be the only option
2020-06-10T15:57:48 < PaulFertser> Can somebody more familiar with Web technologies please tell me what chrome.contentSettings.automaticDownloads really implies, specifically, I'm interested in some javascript library that tries doing those automatic multiple files downloads. 
2020-06-10T15:57:53 < PaulFertser> Asking for a friend
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2020-06-10T15:58:21 < Cracki> not sure, perhaps this https://cljdoc.org/d/binaryage/chromex/0.6.4/api/chromex.ext.content-settings#get-automatic-downloads
2020-06-10T15:58:40 < Cracki> yes, not chrome, something chrome related
2020-06-10T15:59:17 < Cracki> as a chrome user I can tell you that it's blocking a page trying to start more than one download. you'll usually have to confirm that you want the second download started from that page
2020-06-10T15:59:37 < PaulFertser> Yes, I'm interested in how that's implemnted from the web developer point of view.
2020-06-10T15:59:57 < PaulFertser> I just noticed it for the first time on thingiverse.
2020-06-10T15:59:59 < Cracki> the starting of a download? or the permission stuff?
2020-06-10T16:01:06 < PaulFertser> JS initiated download of multiple files
2020-06-10T16:01:38 -!- Netsplit *.net <-> *.split quits: dan2wik, tomeaton17
2020-06-10T16:02:09 < Cracki> if it's an actual url, navigate to it (set document.href I think). there are ways to "download" a buffer you assembled in ram too. 
2020-06-10T16:03:37 < Cracki> I hope some more web-affine people respond too. I'm not an expert.
2020-06-10T16:03:43 < PaulFertser> But how does chromium know it's multiple files in advance?
2020-06-10T16:03:53 < Cracki> it doesn't know in advance.
2020-06-10T16:03:59 < PaulFertser> (and in fact thingiverse gives me just one file)
2020-06-10T16:04:05 -!- veegee [~veegee@ipagstaticip-3d3f7614-22f3-5b69-be13-7ab4b2c585d9.sdsl.bell.ca] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds]
2020-06-10T16:04:56 < Cracki> what do you mean? it's letting downloads pass that the user caused by clicking or something, but if one click/whatever causes a script to do multiple downloads, the second and subsequent are getting a prompt (or blocked/allowed)
2020-06-10T16:05:22 < Cracki> thingiverse might give you a zip of everything, or your chrome is showing you a little message on the right end of the url bar
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2020-06-10T16:06:42 < PaulFertser> Cracki: I'm just trying to download a single file from thingiverse and I press the "download" button but nothing is downloaded, just the chromium multiple download files permission pops up.
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2020-06-10T16:06:50 < Cracki> oh?
2020-06-10T16:06:55 < Cracki> ok I didn't expect that
2020-06-10T16:07:34 < PaulFertser> And after I allowed it, just a single regula file got downloaded.
2020-06-10T16:08:00 < Cracki> maybe thingiverse caused those downloads in very quick succession... all that stuff is message (event loop) based, so perhaps chrome could see multiple events at once, before the first started a download
2020-06-10T16:08:06 < Cracki> weird
2020-06-10T16:08:13 < PaulFertser> For the reference, I pressed on the *.scad Download button on https://www.thingiverse.com/thing:193647/files
2020-06-10T16:08:28 < PaulFertser> But download manager didn't show any files downloaded after my first click.
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2020-06-10T16:10:52 < Cracki> when I click the button for the scad, it downloads unremarkably
2020-06-10T16:11:53 < Cracki> only when I click "download all" the page itself opens a modal dialog, and chrome shows a prompt asking if I want to allow multiple file download
2020-06-10T16:11:53 < Cracki> I guess there's some way to prod that prompt... because it merely downloaded a zip when I said yes
2020-06-10T16:12:16 < PaulFertser> 'wget' downloads it too, but some JS apparently hijacks the press.
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2020-06-10T16:13:10 < Cracki> I guess the click event got "eaten" by the modal dialog, and the actual download was started from something that's sufficiently disconnected from that user input to be considered "automatic"
2020-06-10T16:14:32 < PaulFertser> Modern web is so obscure :/
2020-06-10T16:15:21 < Cracki> back in 7th grade or something, we had a little discussion about the amish, and whether we kids could understand their desire to shun modern technology
2020-06-10T16:15:42 < Cracki> that stuff drives the evolution of our brains
2020-06-10T16:16:12 < Cracki> in a few generations people will actually understand the web of 2020... but by then the web of 2070 will have eaten them
2020-06-10T16:18:36 < PaulFertser> I have an impression that business demand drives web to something profitable for them, but limiting, inflexible and barely usable for "power users".
2020-06-10T16:24:17 -!- zz_ka6sox is now known as ka6sox
2020-06-10T16:37:18 < Cracki> anyone know of a cheap sensor that can sense marijuana smoke? I feel like logging when the neighbors are not high
2020-06-10T16:43:37 < aandrew> Cracki: I wonder if a simple particulate (air quality) sensor would be enough
2020-06-10T16:44:21 < srk> just build a spectrometer
2020-06-10T16:44:23 < Cracki> the smoke detector in my room isn't piercing my ears so far but I guess you can increase sensitivity to particles. I'd wanna be specific to marijuana tho
2020-06-10T16:44:30 < Cracki> just[TM]
2020-06-10T16:44:37 < srk>  /s :D
2020-06-10T16:45:13 < Cracki> the only hw I've found is some company that's not selling but renting their sensors, and 50 sensors minimum
2020-06-10T16:45:48 < Cracki> I know people that would just order a spectrometer off ebay
2020-06-10T16:46:12 < Cracki> but they have the skills and knowledge to (learn how to) fix those buggers
2020-06-10T16:47:42 < srk> I have a bit of knowledge bout them but it's difficult to build a good one
2020-06-10T16:48:18 < srk> https://ottervis.wordpress.com/
2020-06-10T16:48:29 < srk> TCD1304 linear CCD :)
2020-06-10T16:48:37 < aandrew> not a smoke detector, an air quality meter; they give you a reading of particulate matter. I know it's not mj specific but you could infer it
2020-06-10T16:49:22 < srk> lenses and optics in general are hard (to obtain)
2020-06-10T16:49:30 < Cracki> ye def infer, they don't make any other smoke down there
2020-06-10T16:51:25 < aandrew> heh I like this from the theory of operation of that ottervis: Assuming that the diffraction grating is perfect (ahem), and focus and alignment is perfect (AHEM), and that there are no chromatic, comatic and/or spherical abberations, the width of the slit becomes the resolution limiting factor (I think).
2020-06-10T16:52:06 < aandrew> I actually have a couple Hamamatsu 4096-pixel linear sensors
2020-06-10T16:52:34 < aandrew> however they're WIDE (like 20cm?), might be too wide for tis
2020-06-10T16:52:35 < aandrew> this
2020-06-10T16:53:36 < Cracki> people pull them from flatbeds eh
2020-06-10T16:54:12 < aandrew> yes that'd work too
2020-06-10T16:54:48 < Cracki> I have two contact image sensors from flatbeds. not the most awesome sensors but good enough to show something on an oscilloscope
2020-06-10T16:56:13 < aandrew> these are S13496 sensors. I was close: 28mm, each pixel is, 7um x 200um
2020-06-10T16:56:26 < aandrew> 20cm, lol that's not what I meant, the damn chip isn't almost a foot long
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2020-06-10T16:56:29 < Cracki> >28mm vs 20cm
2020-06-10T16:56:30 < Cracki> >close
2020-06-10T16:56:31 < Cracki> :D
2020-06-10T16:56:46 < Cracki> wait you canadians use imperial primarily?
2020-06-10T16:57:07 < aandrew> canadians are a fucking weird hybrid
2020-06-10T16:57:27 < Cracki> I'd say you use whatever the french use, but the french invented the metric system
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2020-06-10T16:58:05 < Cracki> someone must have invented a system based on body measurements from moose
2020-06-10T16:58:05 < aandrew> we measure temp in metric unless it's a room. we measure distance in metric unless it's house-related. we measure weight in metric unless it's your body weight or meat 
2020-06-10T16:58:12 < Cracki> heh
2020-06-10T16:58:39 < aandrew> geographic area is usually in imperial (who the fuck knows what the fuck a hectare is) 
2020-06-10T16:58:45 < aandrew> s/knows/cares/
2020-06-10T16:59:03 < karlp> hecater is 100mx100m
2020-06-10T16:59:30 < Cracki> how do imperials measure area?
2020-06-10T16:59:35 < karlp> in chains...
2020-06-10T16:59:39 < karlp> or perches,
2020-06-10T16:59:41 < Cracki> what's between square miles and square feet
2020-06-10T16:59:43 < aandrew> acres
2020-06-10T16:59:43 < karlp> or even "squares"
2020-06-10T16:59:50 < Cracki> handegg fields
2020-06-10T17:00:01 < Cracki> acre, yes that sounds familiar
2020-06-10T17:00:10 < aandrew> hm, the photosensitivity of this cmos sensor is all over the map, it'd be a bitch to linearize
2020-06-10T17:00:54 < karlp> right, an acre is 40 perches by 4 perches in size.
2020-06-10T17:00:59 < Cracki> 1 acre = 1 chain * 1 furlong. those are the most ridiculous units ever
2020-06-10T17:01:01 < aandrew> 0.1A/W at UV (200nm) to just over 0.4A/W at infraread (750nm)
2020-06-10T17:01:13 < Cracki> 66 * 660 ft. they should have used prime numbers
2020-06-10T17:01:29 < karlp> it's because it's based on how much an ox could plough in a day...
2020-06-10T17:02:40 < Cracki> 1 chain = 100 links = 66 ft, 1 link = 0.66 ft. just wtf
2020-06-10T17:03:25 < karlp> 1 chain = 1 cricket pitch too
2020-06-10T17:03:39 < Cracki> 1 link is about the spread between pinky and thumb on average people's hands... it's comical
2020-06-10T17:03:39 < BrainDamage> just use this handy chart
2020-06-10T17:03:41 < BrainDamage> https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/9/9e/English_Length_Units_Graph.svg
2020-06-10T17:03:55 < Cracki> barleycorn oh yes
2020-06-10T17:04:40 < BrainDamage> https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/1/1e/English_mass_units_graph.svg
2020-06-10T17:04:45 < Cracki> oh the mj is strong today
2020-06-10T17:05:51 < aandrew> we used CMOS vs CCD because CCD is so weird to drive. I'd actually started using dark level subtraction but they switched to a CMOS which simplified things
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2020-06-10T17:08:13 < aandrew> lol
2020-06-10T17:08:39 < aandrew> reading about achromatic lenses. From wikipedia: Hall wished to keep his work on the achromatic lenses a secret and contracted the manufacture of the crown and flint lenses to two different opticians, Edward Scarlett and James Mann. They in turn sub-contracted the work to the same person, George Bass.
2020-06-10T17:08:44 < aandrew> hahaha
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2020-06-10T17:16:19 < Cracki> lol
2020-06-10T17:24:06 < specing> lol
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2020-06-10T18:00:09 < englishman> wtf
2020-06-10T18:00:38 < englishman> this CDC device has throughput issues when connected to a ehc port
2020-06-10T18:00:49 < englishman> works fine on a xhc port
2020-06-10T18:05:34 < PaulFertser> karlp: for the reference, end result of those investigations: https://medium.com/@matteoscordino/2-4ghz-coexistence-reverse-engineering-broadcom-chips-to-enable-packet-traffic-arbitration-c7cf7c00e43c
2020-06-10T18:06:57 < mawk> you're on pc now Steffanx 
2020-06-10T18:07:02 < mawk> you should play with my sliders
2020-06-10T18:07:09 < mawk> it's mandatory
2020-06-10T18:07:22 < mawk> https://jsfiddle.net/r42sbuwz/21/
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2020-06-10T18:12:10 < englishman> this makes no sense
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2020-06-10T18:20:39 < mawk> dmesg says something ?
2020-06-10T18:28:44 < Steffanx> I am, but my irc client isn't mawk
2020-06-10T18:28:50 < Steffanx> And time to drive home kw
2020-06-10T18:28:52 < Steffanx> Now
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2020-06-10T19:42:46 < englishman> no dmesg on windows 10
2020-06-10T19:43:15 < englishman> also it seems i have the only computer in the office with actual ehci ports, even the old ass laptops are all xhci
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2020-06-10T21:07:32 < Steffanx> lies englishman
2020-06-10T21:07:37 < Steffanx> steffan@steffan-desktop:/mnt/c/Users/Steffan$ dmesg
2020-06-10T21:07:37 < Steffanx> [    0.010443]  Microsoft 4.4.0-18362.836-Microsoft 4.4.35
2020-06-10T21:08:16 < PaulFertser> WSL2?
2020-06-10T21:09:02 < LoneElf> Hi guys! I'm having problems, and am looking for advice. Somehow I'm managing to brick my STM32H745i discovery boards. This _appears_ to be caused by the flashing process (openocd+stlinkv3). After the board is bricked, I can no longer communicate with the target chip via the stlink. Not even using the stlink utility. Does anybody know how the the chip could get into such a state via programming that it cannot be communicated with 
2020-06-10T21:09:02 < LoneElf> via an stlink? Any ideas how I can unbrick the board?
2020-06-10T21:09:23 < Steffanx> 1 i think, PaulFertser
2020-06-10T21:09:51 < PaulFertser> Steffanx: aren't they deprecating it?
2020-06-10T21:10:07 < Steffanx> perhaps, but im not on the build that supports it i think
2020-06-10T21:10:42 < Steffanx> https://docs.microsoft.com/en-us/windows/wsl/wsl2-index says 19041 im "still" on 18something
2020-06-10T21:10:44 < PaulFertser> LoneElf: are you using 'reset_config srst_only connect_assert_srst"?
2020-06-10T21:13:22 < LoneElf> PaulFertser, I'm using the openocd "program" command followed by verify, followed by shutdown.
2020-06-10T21:14:23 < PaulFertser> LoneElf: but what about the reset config?
2020-06-10T21:17:37 < LoneElf> PaulFertser, I've only mentioned the commands that I've used. As I understand, the "program" command in openocd is a bit of a macro. http://openocd.org/doc/html/Flash-Programming.html
2020-06-10T21:18:42 < LoneElf> PaulFertser, I don't a ton of familiarity with openocd, or even the details of programming chips... Can you give some detail behind your question?
2020-06-10T21:18:48 < LoneElf> PaulFertser, also, thanks :)
2020-06-10T21:18:58 < PaulFertser> LoneElf: yes, it's a Tcl proc. But before program you actually source interface and target configs. And you can set reset_config while at it. And by default OpenOCD doesn't touch target's SRST.
2020-06-10T21:19:31 < PaulFertser> I suggest to try "reset_config srst_only connect_assert_srst; program /path/to/your.elf verify reset exit"
2020-06-10T21:19:46 < LoneElf> Ah. Okay. Let me look through the TCL scripts leading up to the program command. I'm actually using the ac6 version of openocd included in SystemWorkbench, if that matters.
2020-06-10T21:20:29 < LoneElf> PaulFertser, My problem at present though is that I cannot seem to talk to the target at all. Not using the stlink utility (windows GUI), nor using openocd.
2020-06-10T21:22:04 < PaulFertser> LoneElf: can you try starting OpenOCD while pressing the reset button?
2020-06-10T21:22:33 < LoneElf> PaulFertser, sure, one moment.
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2020-06-10T21:26:06 < LoneElf> PaulFertser, Brilliant! Seemed to do something!
2020-06-10T21:26:33 < LoneElf> It detected the target, but then timed out while waiting for target halted.
2020-06-10T21:26:59 < PaulFertser> LoneElf: you have one second to depress reset while it's waiting
2020-06-10T21:27:08 < PaulFertser> LoneElf: you should manage it after a few tries
2020-06-10T21:27:52 < LoneElf> PaulFertser, great! It seems that I don't actually have one second... But that probably has something to do with the TCL scripts i'm using from AC6 I would guess.
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2020-06-10T21:33:34 < PaulFertser> LoneElf: if you want reliable flashing just use connect_assert_srst
2020-06-10T21:40:04 < LoneElf> PaulFertser, Awesome. So by holding down the reset, and then releasing it, I was able to properly erase the flash. So I guess I'm now trying to figure out how programming is getting me into that state.
2020-06-10T21:40:37 < LoneElf> PaulFertser, do you imagine this problem is happening due to not using connect_assert_srst?
2020-06-10T21:41:22 < PaulFertser> LoneElf: disabling SWD in your firmware code is one problem, not being able to reflash it is another. connect_assert_srst helps with the latter.
2020-06-10T21:41:28 < LoneElf> Actually, it appears that I am using the following "reset_config srst_only srst_nogate connect_assert_srst"
2020-06-10T21:41:51 < PaulFertser> LoneElf: check the schematics then, why stlink is not attached to target's reset.
2020-06-10T21:45:53 < Mangy_Dog> btw my super dence pcbs turned up...... And yeah the silk didnt resolve too wel... its just too small https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/570593978928463882/720309580642517164/unknown.png
2020-06-10T21:46:04 < zyp> haha
2020-06-10T21:46:21 < zyp> somebody's gonna tell you «told you so» :)
2020-06-10T21:46:28 < Mangy_Dog> its ok i feard it
2020-06-10T21:46:36 < Mangy_Dog> 0.4 is too small :d
2020-06-10T21:46:43 < Mangy_Dog> will go with 0.8 at minimum now
2020-06-10T21:47:35 < Cracki> pcbs fabbed where?
2020-06-10T21:47:37 < Mangy_Dog> What is annoying though is these PCBs turned up quicker than the SSRs and thermal couplers I ordered, and i ordered those about a week before the PCBs
2020-06-10T21:47:40 < Mangy_Dog> jlc
2020-06-10T21:47:43 < Cracki> ic
2020-06-10T21:47:54 < Cracki> do they have any better options for silkscreen?
2020-06-10T21:47:58 < englishman> gross
2020-06-10T21:47:58 < Mangy_Dog> na
2020-06-10T21:48:16 < Cracki> wonderful
2020-06-10T21:48:16 < englishman> also untented vias
2020-06-10T21:48:24 < Mangy_Dog> untented?
2020-06-10T21:49:06 < Cracki> wormhole without iris
2020-06-10T21:49:58 < Cracki> tent = soldermask covers via hole
2020-06-10T21:50:03 < Mangy_Dog> ahh
2020-06-10T21:50:19 < Cracki> https://www.bhoite.com/wp-content/uploads/2018/01/tented-nontented-vias.png
2020-06-10T21:51:05 < Mangy_Dog> i see
2020-06-10T21:51:20 < Mangy_Dog> that might have been a mistake on my part
2020-06-10T21:51:24 < Cracki> I guess they did untented because it was exported like that, ye
2020-06-10T21:51:41 < Mangy_Dog> other pcbs of theres are covered
2020-06-10T21:51:41 < Cracki> eh, no big deal
2020-06-10T21:51:52 < Mangy_Dog> maybe over looked something
2020-06-10T21:51:59 < Cracki> I like untented vias because I can probe there without the tip slipping
2020-06-10T21:52:09 < Mangy_Dog> trye
2020-06-10T21:52:11 < Mangy_Dog> true
2020-06-10T21:53:02 < Mangy_Dog> https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/362670523181957120/720349767481163786/IMG_20200610_195032.jpg thats my workhole without an iris :p
2020-06-10T21:53:12 < Cracki> lewd
2020-06-10T21:53:32 < Cracki> 40% less calories, perfect gift for mother'...
2020-06-10T21:54:51 < Mangy_Dog> heh
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2020-06-10T22:20:23 < englishman> 'dmesg' is not recognized as an internal or external command,
2020-06-10T22:20:23 < englishman> operable program or batch file.
2020-06-10T22:20:24 < englishman> Steffanx: 
2020-06-10T22:24:11 < zyp> fun
2020-06-10T22:26:26 < englishman> zyp, you know quite a bit about usb
2020-06-10T22:26:32 < englishman> this problem is super weird
2020-06-10T22:27:05 < englishman> cdc/adm comport, feeding data from a device, on ehci ports i am hitting some rate limit, on xhci everything works fine
2020-06-10T22:27:10 < englishman> win10
2020-06-10T22:27:16 < englishman> i don
2020-06-10T22:27:21 < englishman> don't even know where to start looking.
2020-06-10T22:29:07 < englishman> it probably isnt a rate limit but some kind of buffer or delay, as it happens at very slow rates. like <50kbaud
2020-06-10T22:44:50 < Cracki> oh lol systemd got a 9.8 CVE https://nvd.nist.gov/vuln/detail/CVE-2020-13776
2020-06-10T22:45:49 < Cracki> do they seriously try to parse a user name as an integer
2020-06-10T22:51:53 < zyp> englishman, latency issue? what's on the device side?
2020-06-10T22:52:07 < englishman> msp430 of course.
2020-06-10T22:52:12 < zyp> awesome
2020-06-10T22:52:24 < englishman> it has to be some latency issue. but it's so weird that it happens only on ehci ports.
2020-06-10T22:52:48 < zyp> I guess it might be differences in how polls are scheduled
2020-06-10T22:52:52 < zyp> or something
2020-06-10T22:53:26 < zyp> do you have access to a usb analyzer? it'd be useful to look at the poll/nak events to see how the flow control pattern looks
2020-06-10T22:53:51 < englishman> just usblyzer
2020-06-10T22:54:16 < englishman> time to expense one of those teledyne ones i suppose
2020-06-10T22:54:17 < zyp> that's not useful, you'll want to look at the bus side, not the URB side
2020-06-10T22:54:24 < englishman> yeah
2020-06-10T22:54:52 < zyp> I'm partial to the beagle, but then I haven't tried a teledyne yet
2020-06-10T22:55:12 < zyp> I should go visit invzim_ some time :)
2020-06-10T22:55:48 < englishman> yes spread that covid northwards
2020-06-10T22:56:34 < zyp> northwards?
2020-06-10T22:56:49 < zyp> I'm south of Oslo, and covid is probably denser there
2020-06-10T22:57:23 < englishman> mercury T2C is only $1500
2020-06-10T22:57:57 < Steffanx> run bash, englishman
2020-06-10T22:59:30 < Steffanx> install that debian on windows
2020-06-10T23:00:42 < zyp> the teledyne software looks awful in the screenshots
2020-06-10T23:01:52 < zyp> beagle 480 is $1400
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2020-06-10T23:16:57 < Steffanx> It has become cheaper?
2020-06-10T23:18:27 < zyp> dunno, says $1400 now
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2020-06-10T23:49:23 < machinehum> bash on windows
2020-06-10T23:49:50 < machinehum> moved from debian to arch
2020-06-10T23:50:15 < machinehum> Was tired of packages being 2 years out of date, and dep conflicts with backports
--- Day changed Thu Jun 11 2020
2020-06-11T00:04:36 < Mangy_Dog> this feels really overly simple.... https://hastebin.com/uzasefowot.cs a basic 1hz PWM duty control for my reflow ovens heater... another function would set what the duty is and this just runs all the time and reacts to that duty setting...
2020-06-11T00:05:07 < Mangy_Dog> if anything feels too simple
2020-06-11T00:11:22 < Steffanx> I would still try to use a timer and let it do the PWM 
2020-06-11T00:13:38 < LoneElf> PaulFertser, Do you know where I can learn about the details of why I'm able to program when I hold down and then release the reset button for the stm32h7? I've got a slew of manuals here, but I'm not seeing that detail.
2020-06-11T00:18:11 < LoneElf> PaulFertser, If I had to guess, I'm assuming that there is some firmware that is loaded in some low level bootloader that allows for SWD, but that when my code begins to execute, SWD is no longer possible (seems debugging is only sometimes borked after I get done programming)
2020-06-11T00:19:28 < PaulFertser> LoneElf: debug module works under SRST so no matter what firmware is there you can talk over SWD to it.
2020-06-11T00:19:57 < PaulFertser> LoneElf: but then when you release reset firmware starts executing and it might be remapping SWD pins to alternative function. Or it might be putting the target to sleep.
2020-06-11T00:20:09 < LoneElf> Ah, I see.
2020-06-11T00:20:45 < PaulFertser> LoneElf: the question is why connect_assert_srst doesn't work for you. I think you need to check the board and its schematics to see if stlink's reset is actually connected to the target's reset.
2020-06-11T00:21:07 < PaulFertser> LoneElf: probably there's some solder jumper that you can solder.
2020-06-11T00:21:38 < LoneElf> PaulFertser, well, oddly enough, things just seemed to get borked sometimes. I'm looking at the schematic, now, one sec.
2020-06-11T00:24:05 < LoneElf> PaulFertser, yeah, it seems RESET signal for debug is indeed connected to the nRST pin on the stm32h745i (I'm using a ST Discovery board)
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2020-06-11T00:25:31 < PaulFertser> LoneElf: I'd check with a DMM just in case.
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2020-06-11T02:19:09 < Laurenceb_> you couldn't even spin the propellor on your retard hat you brainlet
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2020-06-11T03:50:45 < machinehum> How did you know I have one of those hats
2020-06-11T04:48:36 < brdb> having never used DMA before, i'm curious to know for the case of GPIO if it's somehow faster than writing straight to the IO port (or memory address, even). for an stm32f0 faster I/O i've been able to get is 4MHz with an rcc clock frequency of 64 MHz :(
2020-06-11T04:49:27 < brdb> the issue im trying to solve is writing to a single-buffered LCD without any noticeable tearing from the time it takes to write to the screen
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2020-06-11T06:05:11 < aandrew> brdb: well if you think about it you can write a dword every clock whether you're in PIO or DMA
2020-06-11T06:05:21 < aandrew> but in PIO you can only do that in a completely unrolled loop
2020-06-11T06:06:08 < aandrew> and of course you cant do anything else
2020-06-11T06:07:49 < aandrew> with DMA you can send the entire buffer as fast as you can write to the port(s), and the CPU can be preparing for the next frame while that's going on
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2020-06-11T08:40:31 < Thorn> live launch https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DbUbuH7pkU0
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2020-06-11T08:48:17 < Thorn> how do I connect usb shield to gnd via R+C? should I have a gnd cutout + shield pour or something like that under the connector?
2020-06-11T08:57:55 < dongs> ive seen a cap from shield pads to overall gnd pour
2020-06-11T09:01:40 < Thorn> was the gnd pour removed under the connector though?
2020-06-11T09:01:47 < dongs> no
2020-06-11T09:03:23 < englishman> cap and 1m resistor seems to be in some paki guide to ESD
2020-06-11T09:03:52 < Thorn> I've seen it in PYNQ schematics
2020-06-11T09:04:06 < Thorn> no layout available unfortunately
2020-06-11T09:11:20 < englishman> i expensed a PYNQ today
2020-06-11T09:11:25 < englishman> looks cool
2020-06-11T09:11:34 < englishman> guess i have to learn pydongs now
2020-06-11T09:12:51 < Thorn> moneyed westerners
2020-06-11T09:13:21 < englishman> https://i.imgur.com/Q56FuFL.jpg
2020-06-11T09:13:56 < englishman> thorn you have no idea
2020-06-11T09:16:46 < Thorn> these type C connector are annoying af, even 16 pin ones
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2020-06-11T11:38:08 < Thorn> do you like my type C layout? layers 1, 3, 4 shown https://imgur.com/a/UIdYMSR
2020-06-11T11:39:09 < Thorn> layer 2 is solid gnd
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2020-06-11T11:40:42 < jpa-> looks quite similar to what has worked for me
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2020-06-11T11:42:49 < zyp> Thorn, looks fine
2020-06-11T11:43:01 < Thorn> added more vias near gnd pins
2020-06-11T11:44:08 < Thorn> ok thanks
2020-06-11T11:44:09 < zyp> https://bin.jvnv.net/file/bYYnY.png <- here's my 2L one
2020-06-11T11:44:30 < zyp> where I don't care about cap coupling the shield
2020-06-11T11:46:44 < Thorn> so SBU pins are to be considered unusable?
2020-06-11T11:46:50 < zyp> no?
2020-06-11T11:47:24 < zyp> https://bin.jvnv.net/file/GcGvP.png <- last change I made were actually hooking up the SBU pins as well
2020-06-11T11:47:30 < Thorn> I need to check my ugreen cables if they connect them (probability 0%)
2020-06-11T11:47:51 < zyp> SBU is not mandatory in usb2 cables, but they are in full featured ones
2020-06-11T11:48:30 < zyp> audio altmode uses SBU pins for the headphone jack
2020-06-11T11:48:42 < zyp> DP altmode uses SBU pins for the AUX lane
2020-06-11T11:50:17 < zyp> and I saw somebody planning to use usb-c for pcie hook up the refclk to the SBU pins
2020-06-11T11:50:34 < zyp> so I'm planning to do that on the fpga board I'm currently working on
2020-06-11T11:53:43 < srk> Thorn: what's that CAD sw?
2020-06-11T11:53:53 < Thorn> altium disaster
2020-06-11T11:55:21 < Thorn> not cheap and still 2.0 only https://www.aliexpress.com/item/4001128263389.html
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2020-06-11T11:57:51 < tcth> hi people
2020-06-11T11:58:15 < Thorn> why so many wires https://ae01.alicdn.com/kf/H4014df942ebc4b2ea687d8d206bd1a65Y.jpg
2020-06-11T11:58:37 < tcth> more wires more better
2020-06-11T11:58:40 < jpa-> why so few wires?
2020-06-11T11:58:45 < Thorn> hi tcth 
2020-06-11T11:59:10 < jpa-> https://www.tempoautomation.com/wp-content/uploads/2018/06/usb_c_cable_bundle-673x505.jpg
2020-06-11T12:01:40 < Thorn> what is Vconn
2020-06-11T12:06:13 -!- jsoft [~jsoft@unaffiliated/jsoft] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds]
2020-06-11T12:06:15 < Cracki> >The male connector (plug) has only one high-speed differential pair, and one of the CC pins is replaced by VCONN(CC2), to power electronics in the cable, and the other is used to actually carry the Configuration Channel signals. These signals are used to determine the orientation of the cable, as well as to carry USB Power Delivery communications.  
2020-06-11T12:06:26 < Cracki> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/USB-C#Plugs
2020-06-11T12:20:05 < srk> Thorn: rendering is a disaster indeed
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2020-06-11T13:13:10 < Cracki> tsla stock over 1000, elon: https://twitter.com/elonmusk/status/1271016684489281536
2020-06-11T13:24:46 < Steffanx> Gooday Thorn 
2020-06-11T13:54:10 < zyp> quality solder job: https://bin.jvnv.net/file/0d2Js.jpg
2020-06-11T13:54:21 < zyp> (from stm32g071-disco)
2020-06-11T13:55:05 < jpa-> that's the standard way for soldering the flat cables to pcb
2020-06-11T13:55:22 < zyp> misaligned?
2020-06-11T13:55:24 < jpa-> yeah
2020-06-11T13:55:31 < jpa-> and random amount of solder
2020-06-11T13:55:43 < jadew> they're almost shorted
2020-06-11T13:55:45 < zyp> I mean, it works, o whatever
2020-06-11T13:55:51 < jpa-> it has to look cheap enough so that people don't start wondering why they didn't just use a connector
2020-06-11T13:55:51 < zyp> but still
2020-06-11T13:55:58 < zyp> wonder what yield they have
2020-06-11T13:56:36 < jadew> zyp, did it have the QC sticker?
2020-06-11T13:56:48 < jadew> if yes, then you have nothing to worry about
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2020-06-11T13:57:45 < jadew> china takes quality very seriously
2020-06-11T13:58:28 < zyp> no QC sticker
2020-06-11T13:58:36 < funky> what's the white cumstain on the bottom of the image?
2020-06-11T13:58:55 < jadew> that's where the QC sticker used to be
2020-06-11T13:59:03 < jadew> but the sticker itself didn't pass QC
2020-06-11T14:00:28 < karlp> g071disco is the usb c pd analyser board right?
2020-06-11T14:00:32 < zyp> yes
2020-06-11T14:00:38 < karlp> what's teh sw like?
2020-06-11T14:01:07 < zyp> haven't tried the host software, not really planning to bother with that either
2020-06-11T14:01:29 < karlp> what did you buy it for then?
2020-06-11T14:01:37 < zyp> the firmware is simple, can plug it into PD devices to see power capabilities
2020-06-11T14:01:49 < karlp> oh, use it that side :)
2020-06-11T14:02:02 < zyp> well, I bought it to test my own code on
2020-06-11T14:02:06 < zyp> it's a discovery board after all
2020-06-11T14:02:15 < zyp> who buys discovery boards to run the bundled code?
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2020-06-11T14:04:09 < karlp> well, that one had uses 
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2020-06-11T14:07:37 < Thorn> hi Steffanx 
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2020-06-11T15:46:21 < c10ud> did anyone ever play with bonding ethernet interfaces with stm32?
2020-06-11T15:49:43 < aandrew> englishman: wtf happened on efnet yesterday
2020-06-11T15:50:43 < zyp> c10ud, what do you have in mind?
2020-06-11T15:51:22 < c10ud> zyp, active backup for ethernet connection
2020-06-11T15:51:49 < c10ud> well I am mostly interested in knowing how it is currently being done (and I'm skimming through the net/bonding linux driver)
2020-06-11T15:52:24 < c10ud> because hardware wise I know a (costly) Marvell chip, but it's kind of complex
2020-06-11T15:52:40 < zyp> by bonding, you're talking about something like LACP, if all you need is backup, STP might be a better choice
2020-06-11T15:53:03 < c10ud> and with "being done" I mean...how the whole MAC address shebang (so I could do it with two different mcus, in example)
2020-06-11T15:53:08 < c10ud> is done
2020-06-11T15:53:37 < zyp> easiest way to do either is probably to use one of those three port switch chips that got two cu phys and one RMII interface, in place of a standalone phy
2020-06-11T15:53:50 < zyp> that way you just enable it in the switch and let it deal with it
2020-06-11T15:54:28 < c10ud> ah yes I've seen those
2020-06-11T15:55:23 < zyp> https://www.microchip.com/wwwproducts/en/KSZ8863 <- e.g. this
2020-06-11T15:55:37 < zyp> it supports RSTP, so simplest solution would be just enabling that
2020-06-11T15:56:05 < zyp> the benefit of RSTP is that you don't even need the other end to support it
2020-06-11T15:56:31 < c10ud> oh, so it will also work with dumb switches
2020-06-11T15:56:35 < zyp> yes
2020-06-11T15:56:42 < zyp> STP works by detecting and breaking loops
2020-06-11T15:57:47 < c10ud> I will check this, thx zyp
2020-06-11T16:00:21 < zyp> STP works by switches broadcasting BPDU packets from each of its ports
2020-06-11T16:01:10 < zyp> even if you got a single STP switch in a network, it can still detect one of its own BPDU packets returning on a different port than it was sent out from, and it will then only keep one of those ports enabled to avoid creating a loop
2020-06-11T16:02:09 < zyp> and then if the link on the enabled port goes down, it'll switch to the other
2020-06-11T16:03:10 < c10ud> and I guess it can handle the different networks configuration by ie. checking link status on the ports and do the failover through some register
2020-06-11T16:03:48 < zyp> if you just enable RSTP in the switch, it should handle all that transparently without you having to care at all
2020-06-11T16:04:37 < c10ud> I meant portA on network X and portB on network Y, completely separate
2020-06-11T16:04:50 < c10ud> doing the failover only if portA link goes down
2020-06-11T16:05:16 < zyp> separate networks on each port?
2020-06-11T16:05:20 < c10ud> yup
2020-06-11T16:05:59 < zyp> in that case you could configure VLANs, so that each packet sent to the MCU comes with a tag indicating which port it arrived from
2020-06-11T16:06:19 < zyp> i.e. you can use both in parallel
2020-06-11T16:06:33 < c10ud> ah you mean handling it from the mcu directly
2020-06-11T16:06:48 < zyp> yeah
2020-06-11T16:07:06 < zyp> but yes, if you just want one active link at a time you could also do manual failover
2020-06-11T16:09:24 < c10ud> but do you think the stp would be able to handle multicast joins correctly?
2020-06-11T16:09:41 < c10ud> I mean it should given that the host (mcu) is still subscribed
2020-06-11T16:10:08 < zyp> as in IGMP snooping?
2020-06-11T16:11:00 < c10ud> yea that's my worry..
2020-06-11T16:11:19 < c10ud> but I guess there's no problem with same-network
2020-06-11T16:11:23 < zyp> I'm not sure how that's supposed to work, I guess the switch will have to resend IGMP joins after a STP reorganization
2020-06-11T16:11:45 < zyp> assuming you have other switches in the network with IGMP snooping at all
2020-06-11T16:12:13 < zyp> it's moot if you're otherwise just using dumb switches that broadcasts all multicast traffic
2020-06-11T16:12:49 < englishman> aandrew: lol
2020-06-11T16:13:02 < englishman> you weren't +g I guess
2020-06-11T16:13:33 < c10ud> yup, knowing the answer is too dependent from the network config..
2020-06-11T16:13:45 < zyp> hmm
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2020-06-11T16:14:14 < zyp> I suspect switches don't normally handle that
2020-06-11T16:14:54 < zyp> it probably relies on the multicast client detecting a loss of traffic and rejoining
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2020-06-11T16:55:03 < aandrew> englishman: hm, I thought I was
2020-06-11T16:55:04 < aandrew> fuck
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2020-06-11T17:40:51 < kakinull> hello afternoon crew
2020-06-11T17:41:05 < kakinull> hello evening crew
2020-06-11T17:41:27 < Mangy_Dog> sloeber/eclipse is now giving me a strange error in editor.... but the project builds fine. Its a simple line that the aim is to copy a pointed array into a another matching array. (ie loading a set of data to a target array...  https://hastebin.com/etetezipun.cpp 
2020-06-11T17:47:41 < Steffanx> You have to copy the array elements yourself... 
2020-06-11T17:47:55 < Steffanx> Or memcpy them
2020-06-11T17:48:04 < Mangy_Dog> you sure?
2020-06-11T17:48:09 < Steffanx> Yes.
2020-06-11T17:48:15 < Mangy_Dog> Like i say, the program builds without any errors
2020-06-11T17:48:20 < Mangy_Dog> and im pretty sure its working
2020-06-11T17:48:24 < brdb> aandrew: back to the dma+gpio thing for the case of an LCD, i don't think i'll have enough memory on the stm32 as-is to have a frame buffer live in program memory unless i don't understand the way that works correctly
2020-06-11T17:48:33 < Cracki> C style arrays can't be copied by simple assignment
2020-06-11T17:48:46 < kakinull> Mangy_Dog: logical errors do not raise errors
2020-06-11T17:48:53 < Cracki> what's the def of loadedProf
2020-06-11T17:49:02 < Cracki> this shouldn't work
2020-06-11T17:49:06 < Mangy_Dog> https://hastebin.com/atajiqugod.cpp
2020-06-11T17:49:12 < Mangy_Dog> updated the paste
2020-06-11T17:49:25 < Steffanx> Your error is not an error but a warning...
2020-06-11T17:49:28 < Cracki> is that an error or a warning
2020-06-11T17:49:31 < Cracki> it shouldn't compile
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2020-06-11T17:49:59 < kakinull> error = do not build
2020-06-11T17:50:03 < kakinull> warning = build
2020-06-11T17:50:05 < Cracki> I'm pretty sure that assignment to a C array is a compiler error
2020-06-11T17:50:14 < Cracki> define "still builds"
2020-06-11T17:50:26 < Cracki> does it actually succeed, or does it merely _not delete_ the elf/whatever
2020-06-11T17:50:37 < kakinull> or update it
2020-06-11T17:51:05 < kakinull> once I did one day or two days of coding without successful builds
2020-06-11T17:51:08 < kakinull> without noticing
2020-06-11T17:51:14 < Mangy_Dog> aand im wrong it isnt building
2020-06-11T17:51:15 < Mangy_Dog> strange
2020-06-11T17:51:17 < Mangy_Dog> thought it was
2020-06-11T17:51:19 < Mangy_Dog> anyway
2020-06-11T17:51:24 < Mangy_Dog> ignore me for now will make a loop for it
2020-06-11T17:51:25 < Mangy_Dog>  :d
2020-06-11T17:51:57 < kakinull> eclipse sometimes at least says that your shit didn't build do you want to launch debugging anyway
2020-06-11T17:52:17 < Cracki> yes, a loop is the right way... unless you want to use std::vector or something like that
2020-06-11T17:52:28 < Cracki> but that's not very embedded anymore
2020-06-11T17:53:09 < kakinull> there is various levels of embedded
2020-06-11T17:53:28 < Cracki> embedded lisp ftw
2020-06-11T17:53:29 < kakinull> some would say running python in your mcu is not very embedded
2020-06-11T17:53:30 < Mangy_Dog> ok looping it
2020-06-11T17:53:31 < Mangy_Dog> :p
2020-06-11T17:53:53 < Mangy_Dog> just really strange that for a while it did build
2020-06-11T17:53:54 < Cracki> embedded python is like shoving your snake in a tiny water pipe
2020-06-11T17:53:57 < Mangy_Dog> or at least thought it did 
2020-06-11T17:54:01 < Mangy_Dog> then suddenly showd up
2020-06-11T17:54:02 < Cracki> and then banging on it with a hammer
2020-06-11T17:54:07 < aandrew> brdb: you don't need a full frame, you can DMA smaller chunks while still keeping bandwidth high
2020-06-11T17:54:42 < Cracki> Mangy_Dog, you can do a memcpy of course, memmove maybe
2020-06-11T17:55:39 < Cracki> (as mentioned right at the beginning)
2020-06-11T17:56:18 < Mangy_Dog> the loops easy enough
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2020-06-11T18:10:40 < brdb> the prospect of only updating partial portions of an LCD seems cumbersome when there's no full frame buffer to utilize (not enough memory :( ) but DMA with smaller chunks seems like an alright solution to keep things chugging along
2020-06-11T18:11:00 < brdb> at the very least it frees things up to nab sensor data that will be displayed on the screen
2020-06-11T18:11:52 < brdb> i wonder how littlevgl does this and if it reuqires the ability to write to a full frame, never though i'd hit his limitation but 16-bit color on a 320x480 screen is quite a lot of data
2020-06-11T18:12:56 < Mangy_Dog> one of lvgls requirements is enough ram to hold a full framebuffer
2020-06-11T18:14:06 < brdb> stm32f4 it is! don't think there's an f0 with that much onboard memory
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2020-06-11T18:17:53 < Mangy_Dog> i think f4 should have enough ram
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2020-06-11T18:20:21 < brdb> seems to be the case, especially for the stm32f429
2020-06-11T18:29:15 < Mangy_Dog> https://imgur.com/gallery/yJL60tl
2020-06-11T18:30:27 < strata> not gonna lie at first i thought i was looking at one of those huge signs on the side of a skyscraper
2020-06-11T18:30:31 < Cracki> baking a brighter tomorrow
2020-06-11T18:31:00 < strata> an then thought, "cool. Mangy_Dog must be a CEO of a Blade Runner company"
2020-06-11T18:31:01 < Mangy_Dog> :D
2020-06-11T18:31:02 < Cracki> >dystopian slogan
2020-06-11T18:31:40 < Cracki> how about something with... industrial ovens and work and...
2020-06-11T18:32:02 < Cracki> and beware of the fumes
2020-06-11T18:32:17 < Mangy_Dog> it kinda feels like it needs to be smarter... double edged
2020-06-11T18:32:29 < Mangy_Dog> sinister when you think about it but on the face of it sounds positive
2020-06-11T18:32:46 < Cracki> gillette mach 9000 with one more blade than last year
2020-06-11T18:32:59 < strata> how many blades is it up to now?
2020-06-11T18:33:07 < Mangy_Dog> 5 or 6 i think
2020-06-11T18:33:15 < Mangy_Dog> i stopped using a razor 15 years ago
2020-06-11T18:33:21 < Cracki> I think they graduated to a chain saw kinda deal so you don't even have to move your fucking arm anymore
2020-06-11T18:33:29 < strata> i'm still using a 1-blade safety razor with no water or shaving cream
2020-06-11T18:33:30 < Cracki> it's like a cheese grater
2020-06-11T18:33:47 < Cracki> I still use my braun electrical that I must have bought over 15 years ago
2020-06-11T18:33:48 < Mangy_Dog> eesh those safty razors are like a cheese grater
2020-06-11T18:33:59 < Mangy_Dog> well i have a beard and i use a trimmer
2020-06-11T18:34:06 < Cracki> switched the blade assembly maybe twice. batteries just won't die
2020-06-11T18:34:14 < Mangy_Dog> if i want it off i just trim right now... and have stubble not bother with a clean shave
2020-06-11T18:34:39 < Cracki> trimming is for the furries among us. if I shaved anything but my face I'd have a rash
2020-06-11T18:34:43 < strata> yea i'll never understand the whole gillette thing
2020-06-11T18:35:00 < strata> spend $$$$ on the blades and they only work a few times
2020-06-11T18:35:02 < Cracki> besides gillette is a man hating company
2020-06-11T18:35:15 < Cracki> they hate men, they want us all dead
2020-06-11T18:35:16 < strata> i buy a whole box of safety razors from .ru for like $8 and it lasts me 5 fucking years
2020-06-11T18:35:40 < Cracki> P&G, gillette's parent company, is one of those dystopian megacorps
2020-06-11T18:35:47 < Mangy_Dog> yes
2020-06-11T18:35:48 < Mangy_Dog> they are
2020-06-11T18:35:58 < Mangy_Dog> in the future they would be after the organism
2020-06-11T18:36:06 < strata> though tbf these russian blades kinda suck compared to the german ones i had before this
2020-06-11T18:36:11 < Mangy_Dog> they would want to use the blood as a tooth whitener
2020-06-11T18:36:15 < strata> they don't last as many shaves as the german ones did
2020-06-11T18:36:26 < Cracki> maybe look for ceramic blades
2020-06-11T18:37:07 < strata> when we got this house, i tore out the whole bathroom. walls/floor/cielings/everything
2020-06-11T18:37:08 < Cracki> at least for kitchen knives, ceramic beats metal because metal has to be EXTRA sharp from the beginning, because it dulls 10x faster. ceramic isn't starting as sharp but stays sharp much longer
2020-06-11T18:37:22 < strata> and they had this hole in the wall next to the sink where they threw thousands of safety razor blades into it
2020-06-11T18:37:26 < Cracki> lol
2020-06-11T18:37:27 < Cracki> wtf
2020-06-11T18:37:37 < strata> that's how they used to do it back in the early 1900's. they'd just throw their blades into the wall rofl
2020-06-11T18:37:53 < strata> but that's what gave me the idea to get a safety razor
2020-06-11T18:37:54 < Cracki> wat dirty bastards lived there
2020-06-11T18:39:06 < strata> i was like "damn these people must have been on to something. this house is 100 years old and these blades aren't too rusted nor are there that many of them"
2020-06-11T18:39:36 < strata> if it were gilette mach 9000 blades, there would be a pile behind the house bigger than 3x the size of the house in just blades
2020-06-11T18:39:57 < strata> think about how much money people spend on those products
2020-06-11T18:40:04 < strata> unilever and P&G
2020-06-11T18:40:12 < Cracki> starbucks vs diy
2020-06-11T18:40:32 < Cracki> whore house vs. black van + room in the basement
2020-06-11T18:41:40 < Cracki> ye sensible people just buy blades. it's an adult thing I guess. "blades" are scary. best to buy what the TV commercial tells you to buy
2020-06-11T18:42:08 < Cracki> they advertise stuff because not enough people buy it. disposable blades don't need ads, they sell on their own.
2020-06-11T18:43:21 < zyp> isn't it the other way around? stuff that sells well and makes more money have more money to throw at advertising?
2020-06-11T18:44:12 < Cracki> you pay for ads because you think you make more money from that "operation"
2020-06-11T18:44:30 < Cracki> sure, a disposable blade company could advertise
2020-06-11T18:45:27 < Cracki> and some do that... but that's not "our shit makes you cool and desirable", it's mostly education (gillette is bs, here's how to be an adult and use disposable blades)
2020-06-11T18:45:31 < zyp> I'd argue disposable blades is a niche, doesn't have the same mass market appeal as the other shit
2020-06-11T18:46:13 < Cracki> I'd argue store-brand bottled water is a niche, doesn't have the same mass market appeal as sugared carbonated fizzy piss
2020-06-11T18:46:36 < Cracki> (ok well you can't pull disposable blades from a water tap in your house...)
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2020-06-11T18:47:41 < Cracki> if there were no "ads", only stores showing you the goods, who would buy the fancy pricey stuff rather than the simple reliable cheap stuff?
2020-06-11T18:48:00 < Cracki> who would even think to start smoking tobacco, if it weren't for ads
2020-06-11T18:48:48 < zyp> I switched from disposable blades to an electric shaver
2020-06-11T18:49:03 < Cracki> I sat in a marketing lecture series once. ads _are_ brainwashing. they are supposed to use any and all means (including emotion) to move the preferences of consumers.
2020-06-11T18:49:22 < Cracki> yeah there are rational arguments to be made for electric
2020-06-11T18:49:47 < zyp> I'm just lazy
2020-06-11T18:49:53 < Cracki> my #1
2020-06-11T18:50:12 < friendofafriend> Dorco makes a nice razor.
2020-06-11T18:50:16 < Cracki> also I'm not keen to smell all this perfumed shit they sell
2020-06-11T18:50:45 < kakinull> Steffanx: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1-luULrf9H4
2020-06-11T18:50:51 < kakinull> musics of sorts
2020-06-11T18:50:51 < friendofafriend> You can smell Dollar Store on someone for hours.
2020-06-11T18:55:48 < kakinull> what is dollar store?
2020-06-11T18:56:15 < kakinull> gamestop? when you sell games
2020-06-11T18:56:28 < kakinull> it's 1 money unit per title
2020-06-11T18:57:47 < Steffanx> Not impressed kakimir 
2020-06-11T18:58:53 < kakinull> me neather
2020-06-11T19:00:55 < kakinull> neither?
2020-06-11T19:01:08 < kakinull> learn english kaki
2020-06-11T19:03:19 < Steffanx> Neether 
2020-06-11T19:03:29 < Cracki> nether
2020-06-11T19:03:39 < Cracki> neitherland
2020-06-11T19:04:37 < kakinull> learn languages with kaki
2020-06-11T19:04:46 < kakinull> learn everything wrong at first time
2020-06-11T19:04:58 < kakinull> never recover
2020-06-11T19:12:36 < Steffanx> Do you say dutchland yet, instead of the netherlands, kakinull ?
2020-06-11T19:13:18 < kakinull> deutschland?
2020-06-11T19:15:01 < mawk> duitsland
2020-06-11T19:15:33 < kakinull> land of waffless
2020-06-11T19:15:39 < kakinull> waffels
2020-06-11T19:19:03 < antto> samtec :~(
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2020-06-11T19:23:26 < Cracki> samtec waffles
2020-06-11T19:26:39 < kakinull> I want my waffles to taste of spirit of innovation
2020-06-11T19:27:18 < antto> soak them in bacon and vinegar then
2020-06-11T19:27:42 < kakinull> is that taste of innovation?
2020-06-11T19:27:56 < kakinull> can it be made into parfume too?
2020-06-11T19:27:57 < antto> for a waffle - yes
2020-06-11T19:29:56 < kakinull> I need spirit of innovation - bottled
2020-06-11T19:30:38 < kakinull> some want stuff in bottle that gives them "man energy"
2020-06-11T19:30:56 < kakinull> I want stuff in bottle that gives me "innovation"
2020-06-11T19:31:21 < kakinull> is that called vodka?
2020-06-11T19:31:25 < antto> innomir
2020-06-11T19:31:32 < antto> no
2020-06-11T19:31:58 < antto> and wtf is a bottle that gives you man energy?
2020-06-11T19:32:05 < antto> wut happens if a gurl drinks it?
2020-06-11T19:32:18 < kakinull> idk
2020-06-11T19:32:22 < kakinull> probs horny
2020-06-11T19:32:37 < Cracki> you get a lesbian
2020-06-11T19:32:43 < kakinull> that
2020-06-11T19:36:01 < antto> aww
2020-06-11T19:36:15 < antto> lesbian in HULK mode?
2020-06-11T19:36:27 < antto> wut if a legit lesbian drinks it then? O_O
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2020-06-11T19:37:10 < antto> <mass_rape.jpg>
2020-06-11T19:37:53 < antto> how dafuq is this sh*t "ftsh-105-01-l-dv-k" $3+
2020-06-11T19:41:50 < kakinull> yes
2020-06-11T19:42:22 < kakinull> get fuck'd
2020-06-11T19:45:23 < karlp> antto: becomes it comes in a nice box with a tiger on the side?
2020-06-11T19:45:37 < antto> a wot
2020-06-11T19:46:20 < antto> i just need these stupid 1.27mm pitch headers/IDC/wutever for swd10/stdc14 >:(
2020-06-11T19:46:49 < kakinull> cortex?
2020-06-11T19:47:02 < kakinull> cortex connector?
2020-06-11T19:47:09 < kakinull> get the shrouded one
2020-06-11T19:47:11 < antto> yeah, i'm doing a stupid adapter board
2020-06-11T19:47:29 < kakinull> get the moneyed shrouded one
2020-06-11T19:47:39 < antto> cuz imma order a board and i'd better order some moar boards to justify the shipping cost
2020-06-11T19:47:51 < kakinull> I personally haven't used the shrouded one
2020-06-11T19:47:58 < antto> so imma make this dumb adapter and a comb for teh cat
2020-06-11T19:48:02 < kakinull> check zypsnips for alternatives
2020-06-11T19:51:03 < antto> shrouded? polarized?
2020-06-11T19:54:47 < antto> okay, CNC tech.. gud, cheap.. but only at f*cking digi-kizzle
2020-06-11T19:54:51 < karlp> "Many SHIP messages are sent using a JSON-UTF8 representation as a basis"
2020-06-11T19:54:53 < antto> no mau5r
2020-06-11T19:55:02 < karlp> "For different reasons, which are beyond the scope of this document, some parts of the messages are
2020-06-11T19:55:04 < karlp> defined using XSD"
2020-06-11T19:55:06 < karlp> hahaha
2020-06-11T19:56:18 < Steffanx> No, dutchland, kakinull 
2020-06-11T19:56:57 < karlp> next four pages are how to turn xsd styles into json
2020-06-11T20:14:51 < Mangy_Dog> another little strange thing im havving with sprintf
2020-06-11T20:15:05 < Mangy_Dog> when using %x i get an FF before the hex value
2020-06-11T20:15:12 < Mangy_Dog> is that normal?
2020-06-11T20:15:49 < jpa-> is the argument of signed char type and above 0x80?
2020-06-11T20:16:11 < aandrew> Mangy_Dog: %hhx will fix that
2020-06-11T20:17:17 < aandrew> all the integer numeric types assume a signed integer (i.e. 32-bits for 32-bit sytems)
2020-06-11T20:17:33 < Mangy_Dog> im just passing singular hex values
2020-06-11T20:17:42 < Mangy_Dog> single bytes
2020-06-11T20:17:52 < Mangy_Dog> hhx didnt work btw
2020-06-11T20:18:07 < jpa-> but what is the type of the argument?
2020-06-11T20:18:20 < jpa-> hhx may not work on limited/minimal printf implementations
2020-06-11T20:18:47 < Mangy_Dog> im having issues getting data off my nextion, and im trying to figure out if its my serial reading code or nextion sending its stupid FF FF FF end commands between my serial commands
2020-06-11T20:19:14 < Mangy_Dog> im actually just trying to debug what my MCU is acturally receiving
2020-06-11T20:19:26 < Mangy_Dog> so dropping in some outputs between the if statments....
2020-06-11T20:19:41 < Cracki> another starlink launch saturday 09:21 utc
2020-06-11T20:19:50 < Mangy_Dog> give me a min ill try and show something
2020-06-11T20:20:28 < jpa-> if your argument type is char, try casting to uint8_t first to make the promotion treat it as unsigned
2020-06-11T20:20:51 < Mangy_Dog> hmm
2020-06-11T20:21:37 < karlp> is this decoding things that come from your "passthrough()" routine?
2020-06-11T20:21:56 < Mangy_Dog> basically yes
2020-06-11T20:22:01 < Mangy_Dog> ive set up a simple string of bytes
2020-06-11T20:22:21 < Mangy_Dog> a header 1 or 2 commands bytes and three end bytes ee ee ee
2020-06-11T20:22:41 < Mangy_Dog> also the data buffer is already uint8_t
2020-06-11T20:22:47 < Mangy_Dog> the print buffer is char
2020-06-11T20:22:51 < Mangy_Dog> for debug
2020-06-11T20:23:19 < Mangy_Dog> wait a sodding minute
2020-06-11T20:23:31 < Mangy_Dog> the buffer i was putting the command into was char :/
2020-06-11T20:23:56 < karlp> last I looked, that passthrough routine looked rather unreliable
2020-06-11T20:24:33 < Mangy_Dog> its not passthrough
2020-06-11T20:24:38 < Mangy_Dog> different function now
2020-06-11T20:24:43 < Mangy_Dog> and passthrough worked fine
2020-06-11T20:24:47 < Mangy_Dog> but that was MCU to nextion
2020-06-11T20:24:50 < Mangy_Dog> this is nextion to mcu
2020-06-11T20:25:58 < Mangy_Dog> ohh err
2020-06-11T20:26:00 < Mangy_Dog> hastebin is down
2020-06-11T20:26:24 < jpa-> your code was too much for them
2020-06-11T20:26:45 < Mangy_Dog> my code was so bad it infected the server and crashed it
2020-06-11T20:27:23 < BrainDamage> use https://paste.rs/web
2020-06-11T20:27:26 < Mangy_Dog> https://pastebin.com/G4xKPcZL
2020-06-11T20:27:27 < BrainDamage> use https://paste.rs/web
2020-06-11T20:27:32 < BrainDamage> ops, sorry
2020-06-11T20:27:43 < Mangy_Dog> is the working passthrough
2020-06-11T20:28:08 < Mangy_Dog> anyway the nextion is working now......... i turned the input butter to uint8 D:
2020-06-11T20:33:51 < Cracki> I can't believe it's not Butter
2020-06-11T20:34:14 < Cracki> that is some extra indentation style
2020-06-11T20:34:25 < Mangy_Dog> my new slogan for the future distopian evil megacorp? :D
2020-06-11T20:35:04 < Cracki> uh, if the elements of serialbuffer aren't pointers but plain numbers, you shouldn't use NULL
2020-06-11T20:35:15 < Cracki> just say 0 or '\0' if you wanna make clear that it's a char
2020-06-11T20:35:22 < Mangy_Dog> hmm
2020-06-11T20:35:41 < Cracki> also, don't bother zeroing stuff if you have indices/pointers to head and tail of the buffer (assuming it's a ring buffer)
2020-06-11T20:35:57 < Mangy_Dog> not a ring buffer
2020-06-11T20:36:02 < Cracki> ic
2020-06-11T20:36:20 < Cracki> just a normal string? then serialBuffer[0] = 0 is enough
2020-06-11T20:36:35 < Mangy_Dog> hmm
2020-06-11T20:36:54 < Cracki> also consider resetting serialbuffcount. you seem to be using that but I don't see it ever reset
2020-06-11T20:37:05 < Cracki> oh there it is
2020-06-11T20:37:15 < Mangy_Dog> yeah in the else
2020-06-11T20:37:32 < Cracki> odd, setting it to 0 before you've used the contents
2020-06-11T20:37:49 < Mangy_Dog> the function is passed multiple times
2020-06-11T20:37:56 < Mangy_Dog> before a complete data set is made
2020-06-11T20:38:06 < Mangy_Dog> so its building in multiple loops
2020-06-11T20:38:12 < Mangy_Dog> and when its done it does something
2020-06-11T20:38:17 < Mangy_Dog> IE none blocking style
2020-06-11T20:38:21 < Mangy_Dog> non
2020-06-11T20:38:52 < Mangy_Dog> and also because when i first tried it in a blocking style it wasnt capturing the whle command
2020-06-11T20:39:17 < Cracki> arduino should be providing some line buffering srsly
2020-06-11T20:39:27 < Mangy_Dog> it does
2020-06-11T20:39:32 < Mangy_Dog> but it just doesnt seem to complete
2020-06-11T20:39:36 < Mangy_Dog> so i had sync issues
2020-06-11T20:39:43 < Cracki> in the sense that it's buffering on its own and telling you when it's got a whole line
2020-06-11T20:40:01 < Cracki> it has timeouts, not sure if always
2020-06-11T20:40:43 < Mangy_Dog> just doing the usual 	if (debugSerial.available()){passThrough();}
2020-06-11T20:41:29 < Mangy_Dog> so it knows theres something in the buffer but wouldnt know if its a compelte command
2020-06-11T20:41:48 < Mangy_Dog> so my code takes whats in the buffer builds it up till it sees the end \n and then runs the command
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2020-06-11T22:02:31 < LoneEl> PaulFertser, strange. I can see that Debug is disabled by default in CubeMX, but when I set it to SWD and regen the code, the diff does not show that the code has changed in any significant way.
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2020-06-11T23:14:10 < PaulFertser> LoneEl: strange indeed but I am not a CubeMX user, I read the datasheet and reference manual and then use libopencm3.
2020-06-11T23:15:54 < aandrew> LoneEl: I think all that the cubemx toggle for that does is to lock down pins so you can't use them for other purposes
2020-06-11T23:15:59 < aandrew> i.e it's a gui thing only
2020-06-11T23:23:02 < LoneEl> Ah, interesting... I guess that makes sense. I suppose I didn't actually "pin" all of the pins. I should do that.
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--- Day changed Fri Jun 12 2020
2020-06-12T00:01:05 < PaulFertser> LoneEl: it inserts "__HAL_AFIO_REMAP_SWJ_DISABLE" it seems
2020-06-12T00:09:03 < jadew> turns out renaming shutdown.exe doesn't prevent windows update from restarting your PC anymore
2020-06-12T00:09:11 < jadew> so there's no way to prevent that shit
2020-06-12T00:09:45 < Steffanx> Keep postponing it
2020-06-12T00:09:51 < Steffanx> The entire update
2020-06-12T00:10:00 < Steffanx> Or just deal with the reboot..
2020-06-12T00:10:01 < jadew> you can't
2020-06-12T00:10:05 < specing> jadew: just install GNU/Linux
2020-06-12T00:10:29 < jadew> if you postpone it, it will still forcefully reboot after a couple of days
2020-06-12T00:11:02 < jadew> nothing works anymore
2020-06-12T00:11:13 < jadew> I guess disabling automatic updates would work
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2020-06-12T00:27:55 < rapha> hi all
2020-06-12T00:28:15 < rapha> finally getting somewhere with my F103 project, after switching from Arduino to PlatformIO
2020-06-12T00:28:27 < rapha> much more fun, too :)
2020-06-12T00:28:41 < Mangy_Dog> rapha ive had tons of issues getting platformIO working probebly...
2020-06-12T00:28:43 < Mangy_Dog> properly
2020-06-12T00:28:50 < Mangy_Dog> im using sloeber 
2020-06-12T00:28:59 < rapha> Mangy_Dog: was smooth sailing for me following their website
2020-06-12T00:29:02 < rapha> what's sloeber?
2020-06-12T00:29:13 < Mangy_Dog> an eclipse based arduino enviroment 
2020-06-12T00:29:16 < rapha> oh
2020-06-12T00:29:25 < Mangy_Dog> can add stm32 stuff with rogerclarks core
2020-06-12T00:29:26 < rapha> i'm trying not to touch eclipse :)
2020-06-12T00:29:29 < Mangy_Dog> same way as you add it to arduino
2020-06-12T00:29:33 < rapha> i see
2020-06-12T00:29:34 < Mangy_Dog> yeah i dont blame you
2020-06-12T00:29:40 < Mangy_Dog> eclipse is a problem too :p
2020-06-12T00:29:46 < rapha> PlatformIO have kind of their own core which is a mix of ST's and Roger's
2020-06-12T00:29:56 < Mangy_Dog> i just didnt have luck with platformIO so i gave up and webt back to eclipse
2020-06-12T00:30:02 < rapha> :(
2020-06-12T00:30:15 < rapha> Mebbe try again with Visual Studio Code and the PlatformIO plugin
2020-06-12T00:30:22 < Mangy_Dog> better than arduino IDE at least :D
2020-06-12T00:30:30 < rapha> Well, most anything is.
2020-06-12T00:30:41 < rapha> Gf tried to configure it for a dark mode once. Not even that was fun.
2020-06-12T00:30:47 < Mangy_Dog> hehe
2020-06-12T00:31:03 < rapha> anyhow, so i was wondering
2020-06-12T00:31:10 < Mangy_Dog> i had to actually reinstall sloeber today actually because of a single formatter plugin i installed and it broke things
2020-06-12T00:31:14 < Mangy_Dog> even removing the plugin kept things broken
2020-06-12T00:31:18 < Mangy_Dog> YAY eclipse
2020-06-12T00:31:20 < rapha> what do people use to put some wifi into their stm32 projects _other_ than an esp8266?
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2020-06-12T00:32:11 < Mangy_Dog> no idea
2020-06-12T00:33:41 < rapha> hmm
2020-06-12T00:33:58 < Mangy_Dog> never used wifi not even an esp
2020-06-12T00:33:59 < rapha> i'll hang around and see what Cracki says
2020-06-12T00:34:05 < Mangy_Dog> though ill be using an esp with wifi very soon :D
2020-06-12T00:34:05 < rapha> good on you :)
2020-06-12T00:37:08 < rapha> (_not_ having done that yet, i meant)
2020-06-12T00:38:31 < Mangy_Dog> :D
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2020-06-12T00:46:15 < zyp> rapha, I guess the most obvious answer would be that esp8266 would be too slow for a particular application
2020-06-12T00:46:59 < zyp> it's also only 2.4G on the wifi side
2020-06-12T00:48:25 < strata> rapha, oh ya platformio is cool
2020-06-12T00:48:27 < zyp> and I guess you can't talk to it faster than spi
2020-06-12T00:48:32 < strata> i didn't know it had bluepill
2020-06-12T00:48:52 < rapha> zyp: 2.4GHz is fine. for IoT stuff I find it preferable because of the better range, anyways.
2020-06-12T00:49:27 < karlp> I don't really think of adding wifi to an stm32 project :)
2020-06-12T00:49:29 < zyp> rapha, fine for what? you're asking why people would choose something else, I'm giving you possible reasons
2020-06-12T00:49:32 < rapha> strata: it even has different variants of the Blue Pill. and it makes it very easy to then switch the project to an F303.
2020-06-12T00:50:35 < rapha> zyp: okay, so my current need would be to remote-control the kitchen table lamp I'm building via MQTT.
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2020-06-12T00:51:43 < zyp> why do you even need a stm32 for that?
2020-06-12T00:51:45 < strata> you could use not-wifi for that, but then you'd need a bridge to communicate with all the things
2020-06-12T00:52:04 < zyp> and yes, wifi in lamps sounds like a hassle
2020-06-12T00:52:06 < rapha> zyp: certainly not for the remote part. that's only an additional thing now.
2020-06-12T00:52:29 < strata> nrf24l01 or w/e
2020-06-12T00:52:35 < rapha> strata: yes, that's just not worth it.
2020-06-12T00:52:40 < strata> can get whole bags of the things for like $5
2020-06-12T00:52:43 < rapha> "w/e"?
2020-06-12T00:52:47 < zyp> rapha, depends how many you've got
2020-06-12T00:52:51 < strata> w/e == whatever
2020-06-12T00:52:58 < rapha> ah
2020-06-12T00:53:08 < rapha> nRF24 is Nordic Semiconductor
2020-06-12T00:53:43 < rapha> so with aaaaaaall the IoT and Industry 5.0 and whatnot stuff going on in recent years, ST have nothing of their own to connect an STM32 to WiFi?
2020-06-12T00:53:46 < rapha> o_O
2020-06-12T00:53:48 < zyp> rapha, I don't mind dealing with wifi pairing my vacuum cleaner, but fuck doing that with like 20 light bulbs
2020-06-12T00:53:57 < zyp> sure they do
2020-06-12T00:54:19 < zyp> I've got some stm32 evalboard with some wifi module somewhere
2020-06-12T00:54:35 < zyp> I don't remember which module it was, didn't get the evalboard for that part of it
2020-06-12T00:54:48 < strata> i think ST uses zigbee or some crap
2020-06-12T00:54:51 < strata> for their eval boards
2020-06-12T00:54:57 < zyp> no, this was wifi
2020-06-12T00:55:06 < zyp> looking up
2020-06-12T00:55:19 < rapha> so far i'm only finding SPWF01SA and SPWF01SC which seem like overkill
2020-06-12T00:55:44 < zyp> might be one of those
2020-06-12T00:55:50 < strata> if you want a bunch of wifi lamps, esp8266 are probably the way to go
2020-06-12T00:55:55 < strata> and skip stm32
2020-06-12T00:56:04 < zyp> yes
2020-06-12T00:56:13 < zyp> esp8266 or esp32
2020-06-12T00:56:19 < rapha> ouch
2020-06-12T00:56:24 < zyp> seems pointless to add another mcu to the mix
2020-06-12T00:56:56 < rapha> stm32 is _much_ nicer to work with for _all_ the other aspects of many projects where the wifi is just one small thing on the side
2020-06-12T00:57:11 < zyp> but if you want a bunch of wireless lamps, fuck wifi, grab a stm32wb or something and use ZLL
2020-06-12T00:58:07 < rapha> that doesn't fit the use case at all
2020-06-12T00:58:09 < zyp> if you have a wifi lamp, what other aspects than the wifi does it really have?
2020-06-12T00:58:40 < rapha> nothing that an ESP couldn't do
2020-06-12T00:58:49 < rapha> the point is, and you can laugh about me now
2020-06-12T00:58:51 < rapha> i don't trust them
2020-06-12T00:59:03 < rapha> so i don't even want the ESP as an add-on module to the STM
2020-06-12T00:59:37 < strata> i mean technically there is a CVE for esp8266... they're vulnerable, if that's what you mean?
2020-06-12T00:59:40 < zyp> so you just added another reason to not use esp at all
2020-06-12T01:00:09 < rapha> yeah
2020-06-12T01:00:21 < rapha> i mean i literally came here asking if there's an option aside from an esp
2020-06-12T01:00:21 < zyp> but really, how much do you really need to trust a light bulb?
2020-06-12T01:00:27 < strata> but if security... your lamps getting hacked by someone in the vicinity of your network... i mean really? anyone with that level of sophistication is just gonna bust your door down and put a gun to your head anyway.
2020-06-12T01:00:48 < rapha> that's thinking too directly
2020-06-12T01:00:57 < rapha> let's say i start using esps for this kind of thing
2020-06-12T01:01:02 < rapha> okay, right now it's just a stupid lamp
2020-06-12T01:01:05 < rapha> but i get used to it
2020-06-12T01:01:16 < rapha> and at some point it's a project where it matters, who knows
2020-06-12T01:01:33 < strata> it's a moot point
2020-06-12T01:01:52 < zyp> IIRC TI has some stuff similar to stm32wb, except with a 802.11 radio instead of 802.15.4
2020-06-12T01:01:53 < rapha> aaah
2020-06-12T01:02:00 < rapha> finally found the ST thingo for this
2020-06-12T01:02:15 < strata> also nordic has lotsa arm thingies that do RF
2020-06-12T01:02:32 < zyp> https://www.ti.com/product/CC3200 <- these, probably
2020-06-12T01:02:32 < strata> didn't they recently come out with that one... nrf91 that has LTE even?
2020-06-12T01:02:57 < rapha> wait, ST != Silicon Labs
2020-06-12T01:03:06 < aandrew> nordic and ti have been doing this for a long time
2020-06-12T01:03:26 < rapha> okay, so the answer is, there's nothing really from ST, ppl use Nordic and TI stuff
2020-06-12T01:03:27 < aandrew> cypress got into it, stm got into it, there are others too like quintic who have been doing it for a while too
2020-06-12T01:03:32 < zyp> strata, recently? IIRC I consulted on a design using one last year
2020-06-12T01:03:49 < zyp> or maybe it was the year before
2020-06-12T01:03:53 < strata> zyp, i thought the nrf91 is relatively new yeah?
2020-06-12T01:03:58 < strata> like within the last few years
2020-06-12T01:04:21 < aandrew> strata: nordic has been doing it a VERY long time -- every single logitech wireless mouse has been using the nrf24 radio with 8051 core, and nrf51822 (ARM core) has been around at least 5y if not longer
2020-06-12T01:04:24 < zyp> oh, that's a wide definition of new
2020-06-12T01:04:33 < aandrew> nRF91 is cat-m1 I think?
2020-06-12T01:04:38 < aandrew> haven't been paying attention to it
2020-06-12T01:04:53 < zyp> aandrew, -m and -nb1 IIRC
2020-06-12T01:04:56 < strata> ^
2020-06-12T01:05:17 < strata> if i were going to be irrationally paranoid about security of the MCU, the nrf91 would be my bougyman.
2020-06-12T01:05:18 < rapha> wait
2020-06-12T01:05:23 < rapha> the Unifying Receiver thing
2020-06-12T01:05:30 < rapha> that's NRF51?
2020-06-12T01:05:33 < zyp> no
2020-06-12T01:05:34 < aandrew> rapha: no nrf24lu1
2020-06-12T01:05:35 < strata> just the thought of having my code running on silicon that's shared with cellular baseband makes me shiver.
2020-06-12T01:05:35 < zyp> older shit
2020-06-12T01:05:47 < aandrew> strata: lol 
2020-06-12T01:05:53 < rapha> has anyone reverse engineered it?
2020-06-12T01:05:53 < zyp> strata, heh
2020-06-12T01:06:21 < aandrew> for extra shiver, nrf51 has been broken for at least a few years, and nrf52 has just recently been broken
2020-06-12T01:06:21 < zyp> strata, I worked on phone chipsets some years ago :)
2020-06-12T01:06:33 < rapha> oh, bring on the horror stories pls
2020-06-12T01:07:32 < zyp> to be fair, I mainly worked on the driver side, i.e. on the android (or whatever) side of it
2020-06-12T01:07:41 < aandrew> zyp: that's no fun
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2020-06-12T01:08:42 < zyp> I worked in «customer support», which meant that I probably spent most of my time investigating issues reported by phone mfgs
2020-06-12T01:09:01 < zyp> which I found to be quite fun
2020-06-12T01:11:15 < zyp> the most memorable one is one I tracked down to what's probably an undocumented hardware bug in OMAP4
2020-06-12T01:13:01 < zyp> original issue: modem fails to recover after a crash
2020-06-12T01:13:57 < zyp> investigation shows it failing during the bootloader handshake
2020-06-12T01:14:49 < zyp> according to logs, host is sending a handshake to the modem and never getting a reply
2020-06-12T01:15:29 < zyp> according to logic analyzer on the uart lines, the handshake never reaches the wire so the modem sits around waiting for it
2020-06-12T01:18:27 < zyp> poking the OMAP uart registers directly also doesn't manage to send anything, so the tx side is stuck in a defective state
2020-06-12T01:18:34 < zyp> rx side works
2020-06-12T01:19:38 < zyp> it also worked fine during initial modem boot, it just fails when it tries booting again after a crash
2020-06-12T01:23:01 < zyp> the boot process is a multi stage affair; IIRC on this particular platform it does the handshake at 115200 baud, negotiates a switch to 3Mbaud or something, sends the first stage and then switches to the main interface (MIPI HSI) for the rest of the process
2020-06-12T01:24:00 < aandrew> oh fuck I hated omap
2020-06-12T01:24:37 < aandrew> I remember working with Telit modem modules, they had a similar negotiation
2020-06-12T01:24:45 < zyp> the host code that does the uart handling stores the old settings before setting a new baudrate, and reverts to the old settings when closing the uart
2020-06-12T01:24:50 < aandrew> and if you wanted to use them for anything even remotely useful you'd have to implement that muxing protocol they have
2020-06-12T01:25:44 < zyp> which means that after switching to MIPI HSI and closing the uart, it reverts to the default 9600 baud it had at system startup
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2020-06-12T01:27:19 < zyp> now, when the modem crashes, it squirts something equivalent to a BSOD on the uart at 115200 baud, which nothing in this particular setup is listening to
2020-06-12T01:32:08 < zyp> turns out that somehow when the uart is configured to 9600 baud and somebody barfs 115200 baud at it, the tx path locks up
2020-06-12T01:33:02 < zyp> leaving the uart configured to 115200 baud instead of reverting to 9600 baud after the initial boot solved the problem :p
2020-06-12T01:48:07 < aandrew> in a discussion about eliminating the terms "master" and "slave" someone wrote in 
2020-06-12T01:48:10 < aandrew> hahahahahaha
2020-06-12T01:48:12 < aandrew> I suppose "pimp" and "bitch" are out of the question.
2020-06-12T02:15:51 < aandrew> stm32f1 rdp mostly defeated, I wonder if the same can be applied to the bigger ones
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2020-06-12T02:47:51 < strata> aandrew, https://github.com/openzfs/zfs/pull/10435
2020-06-12T02:52:43 < aandrew> lol
2020-06-12T02:53:21 < strata> it starts with this
2020-06-12T02:53:26 < strata> then they want more
2020-06-12T02:54:27 < strata> i estimate in 2030 github will be tumblr but for code
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2020-06-12T03:42:36 < aandrew> tumblr for code
2020-06-12T03:42:37 < aandrew> jesus
2020-06-12T03:49:01 < strata> btw wizards of the coast banned cards yesterday
2020-06-12T03:49:21 < strata> https://www.magicmadhouse.co.uk/images/crusade-p1134-166619_medium.jpg
2020-06-12T03:49:46 < strata> ^ White (as in white magic) creatures get +1/+1 -- was banned because racism.
2020-06-12T03:50:08 < aandrew> lol
2020-06-12T03:51:28 < strata> i donno why our culture assigns a higher price tag to more "whole foods" type products like brown rice, brown eggs, wheat bread...
2020-06-12T03:51:54 < strata> while their seemingly less healthy white rice, white eggs, white bread are cheaper and in abundance.
2020-06-12T03:52:03 < strata> that's racist af.
2020-06-12T03:52:40 < aandrew> strata: mostly because stripping the fibre out and highly processing the rest is hard on the digestive system
2020-06-12T03:52:53 < aandrew> nothing wrong with white rice, etc if you're not being stupid
2020-06-12T03:53:05 < strata> basmati rice is the shiznit
2020-06-12T03:53:33 < strata> i'm living off the stuff right now
2020-06-12T03:54:13 < aandrew> yeah I'm a fan of basmati rice too
2020-06-12T03:54:39 < aandrew> wife makes cabbage rolls which have lots of rice in them too, those are amazing
2020-06-12T03:54:49 < strata> are there other chips like the ATSAMR34?
2020-06-12T03:55:16 < strata> oh ya i haven't tried to make cabbage rolls before
2020-06-12T03:55:22 < strata> afaik that's a european thing
2020-06-12T03:55:35 < jadew> it's a delicious thing
2020-06-12T03:55:47 < jadew> now I'm in the mood for some
2020-06-12T03:56:43 < jadew> slim chances my wife will prepare those in the next week
2020-06-12T03:57:12 < aandrew> heh
2020-06-12T03:57:41 < jadew> it's usually me who has to take care of them while they're cooking
2020-06-12T03:57:41 < aandrew> sarmale and mici and chifele are things I could live off of
2020-06-12T03:58:15 < jadew> yeah, they're great
2020-06-12T03:58:38 < jadew> can you actually get mici in Canada?
2020-06-12T03:58:59 < aandrew> I mix the sarmale but my wife does the recipe and the actual "manufacture" and montioring
2020-06-12T03:59:05 < jadew> or is your wife preparing them?
2020-06-12T03:59:21 < aandrew> well you can get them at the any .ro store, but I only eat the ones from my kids' godmother's father
2020-06-12T03:59:39 < jadew> heh
2020-06-12T03:59:40 < aandrew> my wife doesn't make mici and his are the only ones I'll eat. I have to get him to tell me his fucking recipe before he dies
2020-06-12T03:59:49 < aandrew> becuase I may just follow him if I'll never have his mici again
2020-06-12T04:00:12 < jadew> that's the thing with mici, they're not all made equal
2020-06-12T04:00:23 < jadew> you keep hearing about "I found a place with good mici"
2020-06-12T04:00:25 < aandrew> no they're not, and everyone says theirs is the best. I can respect that
2020-06-12T04:00:46 < jadew> it's 200 km from here, at whatever location
2020-06-12T04:01:17 < aandrew> I made the mistake of not learning the recipes of the elders with my mother's mom. she made this one particular cake for birthdays, it was a white cake with an icing that had tangerines in it
2020-06-12T04:01:22 < jadew> we found a superstore that prepares the mixture themselves and it's always good
2020-06-12T04:01:25 < aandrew> and it's gone forever, same with her homemade buns
2020-06-12T04:02:19 < aandrew> her other amazing recipes I seem to have some instinct for: I make a beef roast that (I think) is almost identical to hers, and my hamburgers are better than hers. :-)
2020-06-12T04:02:41 < englishman> the newfoundland scallops i had yesterday had pearls
2020-06-12T04:02:44 < englishman> 1st world problems
2020-06-12T04:02:49 < aandrew> englishman: lol
2020-06-12T04:04:16 < jadew> I naver ate clams
2020-06-12T04:04:22 < jadew> *never
2020-06-12T04:05:11 < jadew> had the opportunity mane times, but it's too different from what I'm used to
2020-06-12T04:05:26 < jadew> I like pig and chicken and beef
2020-06-12T04:05:43 < jadew> and some fish
2020-06-12T04:06:40 < aandrew> I don't like clams, but I'll go through a plate of raw oysters
2020-06-12T04:07:05 < aandrew> and salmon or fatty tuna sashimi... oh fuck man amaze
2020-06-12T04:07:16 < jadew> can't eat salmon either
2020-06-12T04:07:29 < aandrew> I can't stand *canned* salmon, but a baked salmon is nice
2020-06-12T04:07:45 < jadew> had some a couple of times, but don't know...
2020-06-12T04:07:51 < jadew> maybe it's the way it was cooked
2020-06-12T04:08:03 < jadew> looked freaking raw...
2020-06-12T04:08:04 < aandrew> I hated brussels sprouts my entire life until my wife made them
2020-06-12T04:08:08 < aandrew> now they're one of my favourite foods
2020-06-12T04:08:25 < aandrew> well salmon sashimi is raw, but yeah you can't just buy a chunk of salmon and eat it raw like that
2020-06-12T04:08:40 < aandrew> growing up brussels sprouts were always boiled. disgusting
2020-06-12T04:08:49 < jadew> it wasn't a chunk, I thought I thought I'm ordering some cooked fish
2020-06-12T04:08:52 < aandrew> wife taught me to shred them and fry them up with some oil and salt. holy fuck so good
2020-06-12T04:08:57 < jadew> instead I got a slice of that raw thing
2020-06-12T04:09:06 < aandrew> sounds like salmon tartare almost
2020-06-12T04:09:10 < aandrew> not sure I'd be into that either
2020-06-12T04:09:24 < jadew> I was so confused... the place we ate at had a stove next to each table
2020-06-12T04:09:31 < jadew> I was wondering if I have to cook it myself
2020-06-12T04:10:32 < jadew> that was in france - didn't eat well at all while there
2020-06-12T04:10:34 < aandrew> interesting
2020-06-12T04:10:50 < jadew> except at Disneyland, which had american food
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2020-06-12T04:11:35 < aandrew> heh
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2020-06-12T04:16:03 < braindamage> I cut them in half I fry the bottoms, then add broth and cinnamon, then cover with lid to let the steam finish cooking the top
2020-06-12T04:16:13 < braindamage> they come out fantastic
2020-06-12T04:16:25 < aandrew> ... cinnamon with brussels sprouts?
2020-06-12T04:16:33 < strata> that sounds disgusting
2020-06-12T04:16:55 < braindamage> don't diss it until you've tried it
2020-06-12T04:17:11 < strata> i made bacon wrapped brussel sprouts a while ago
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2020-06-12T04:26:29 < aandrew> I usually fry up a bunch of brussels sprouts and throw a fried egg or two on top with bacon on the side
2020-06-12T04:26:32 < aandrew> that's a good breakfast
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2020-06-12T04:46:41 < jadew> I'm watching space force
2020-06-12T04:46:45 < jadew> first episode was good
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2020-06-12T10:00:43 < Cracki> I'm afraid of asking for the results of "how to wifi". the "common" solutions look unappealing ("just use" stm32wb1, esp8266 with AT commands wtf).
2020-06-12T10:01:52 < Cracki> at least I foudn this https://www.espressif.com/sites/default/files/documentation/4b-esp8266_at_command_examples_en.pdf
2020-06-12T10:19:56 < mawk> When receiving a packet that contains only “+++”, the UART-WiFi passthrough
2020-06-12T10:19:58 < mawk> transmission process will be stopped. Then please wait at least 1 second before sending
2020-06-12T10:20:00 < mawk> next AT command.
2020-06-12T10:20:02 < mawk> wtf
2020-06-12T10:20:12 < mawk> such realtime
2020-06-12T10:20:13 < Cracki> yes
2020-06-12T10:20:56 < Cracki> they ARE sending length prefixed data, so they SHOULD be able to ignore the contents of that
2020-06-12T10:26:30 < Cracki> HTTP is text with inband binary payload, so even if it's a bad idea it's still a successful concept. they just suck at implementing it
2020-06-12T10:32:04 < Cracki> *even if some people consider it
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2020-06-12T11:07:46 < jpa-> Cracki: you can also use silicon labs modules, WF200 and similar
2020-06-12T11:08:04 < jpa-> they have binary protocol which isn't 100% badly done
2020-06-12T11:08:07 < Cracki> thx checking
2020-06-12T11:09:11 < Thorn> Cracki look at WiCED, they have both lunix drivers and docs for use without drivers, + multiple module manufacturers
2020-06-12T11:09:18 < Cracki> best aliex can do for "wf200" https://www.aliexpress.com/item/4001012081144.html
2020-06-12T11:09:35 < jpa-> eh, silicon labs is not chinese stuff, search digikey
2020-06-12T11:09:43 < Thorn> not available on aliexpress unfortunate;y
2020-06-12T11:09:45 < PaulFertser> mawk: aren't you familiar with dial-up modems?
2020-06-12T11:10:01 < Cracki> :D much moneyed westerner stuff. all getting bookmarked.
2020-06-12T11:10:11 < mawk> yes PaulFertser, but here it's 2020 and it's the 1 second delay that's strange
2020-06-12T11:10:13 < PaulFertser> mawk: at least those didn't switch to command mode when receiving +++ and some data directly after that.
2020-06-12T11:10:39 < PaulFertser> mawk: probably what they mean is that +++ will be passed through if you do not wait 1 second before sending following bytes.
2020-06-12T11:10:47 < PaulFertser> So same as regular old modems.
2020-06-12T11:10:56 < mawk> yes
2020-06-12T11:11:00 < Thorn> Cracki https://www.cypress.com/products/wi-fi-bluetooth-combos https://www.cypress.com/products/wiced-software
2020-06-12T11:11:05 < jpa-> nice thing about silicon labs stuff is that they can stay connected to the wifi with only ~200µA power usage
2020-06-12T11:11:06 < mawk> that's a weird thing to do
2020-06-12T11:11:15 < mawk> 1 second is an eternity
2020-06-12T11:11:19 < Cracki> >.../products/wi-fi-toothbrush-combos
2020-06-12T11:11:20 < PaulFertser> Thorn: cypress are bitches :(
2020-06-12T11:11:34 < Thorn> what's wrong with them?
2020-06-12T11:11:40 < jpa-> mawk: normally you'd just wire up DTR line or similar to signal the switch separately
2020-06-12T11:11:46 < Cracki> connected and 200 ua is indeed nice
2020-06-12T11:12:13 < PaulFertser> Thorn: just read this thread, IMHO it's offending as hell https://community.cypress.com/thread/50009?start=0
2020-06-12T11:12:14 < mawk> ah I see jpa- 
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2020-06-12T11:22:06 < Thorn> WF200 isn't bad but you would usually want a wi-fi+BLE combo imo
2020-06-12T11:24:54 < Cracki> I have a few CCsomething modules that do bluetooth. haven't even touched them since they were delivered.
2020-06-12T11:25:34 < Steffanx> Why do you feel offended by that PaulFertser ? Because it does not work properly? 
2020-06-12T11:26:16 < Steffanx> It seems they did want to help out this guy
2020-06-12T11:26:19 < Thorn> hi Steffanx 
2020-06-12T11:26:29 < Steffanx> Hello good morning sir Thorn
2020-06-12T11:26:56 < Thorn> probably because of undocumented parameters that you need to go to your module mfr for
2020-06-12T11:27:12 < Thorn> even though the module mfr literally makes pcbs and solders them, that's it
2020-06-12T11:27:40 < Thorn> they have nothing to do with silicpn or software
2020-06-12T11:29:39 < Steffanx> Or maybe they do.. idk about the deals/agreements between all those module makers and cypress
2020-06-12T11:36:49 < PaulFertser> Steffanx: it seems they deprived that guy of essential information without any reason. Clearly they know what their parameters mean but instead they tell him to fuck off and die (or go to some module distributor who's not going to share as well because it's a ready made module with everything integrated).
2020-06-12T11:38:59 < Thorn> jpa- is the WF200 protocol documented though? all I can find is an open source driver
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2020-06-12T11:40:58 < Thorn> unless this is it https://docs.silabs.com/wifi/wf200/rtos/latest/wf200-hif
2020-06-12T11:49:52 < rapha> sure, political correctness will solve racism my ass
2020-06-12T11:50:10 < jpa-> Thorn: IIRC it is somewhere, but i haven't actually studied the raw protocol myself - the premade driver is a quite simple wrapper though, basically stuff like this that just puts stuff into a struct and sends it off   https://github.com/SiliconLabs/wfx-fullMAC-tools/blob/master/Tools/RF_test_agent/Drivers/wfx_fmac_driver/sl_wfx.c#L409
2020-06-12T11:50:20 < rapha> zyp: had to look up OMAP ... seems like that was quite the bug to figure out tho
2020-06-12T11:51:12 < jpa-> firmware is better when it has as many layers as possible that only consist of copying stuff into / out of structs
2020-06-12T11:52:08 < zyp> rapha, OMAP 4 was one of the common cellphone chips like ten years ago or so
2020-06-12T11:52:57 < jadew> any ideas on what's the name of those regular 5.5/2.1 mm DC connectors?
2020-06-12T11:55:32 < rapha> looking at those Cypress chips
2020-06-12T11:55:47 < rapha> okay, BT + WiFi, but they're also thrice the price from the WF200
2020-06-12T11:55:59 < rapha> but good question about whether stuff already exists for interfacing to the WF
2020-06-12T11:56:36 < Thorn> btw  3d models for many common connectors https://gct-embedded.partcommunity.com/3d-cad-models/
2020-06-12T11:59:47 < Cracki> jadew, "barrel" jacks
2020-06-12T11:59:58 < rapha> hmm there's https://github.com/SiliconLabs/wfx-fullMAC-tools
2020-06-12T12:00:14 < Cracki> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Coaxial_power_connector
2020-06-12T12:00:29 < rapha> "The FMAC driver is built in a way that allows it to easily be ported on new platforms. It fits bare metal architectures as well as RTOS based implementations."
2020-06-12T12:01:05 < jadew> Cracki, you're right, thanks
2020-06-12T12:01:51 < rapha> seems manageable to get that working ... https://github.com/SiliconLabs/wfx-fullMAC-driver/blob/c5fc407e5a5f69637403b046cd55977cd4fb17d5/wfx_fmac_driver/sl_wfx.h#L164
2020-06-12T12:03:06 < rapha> and they also have an LWIP example
2020-06-12T12:03:21 < rapha> oh even an MQTT example
2020-06-12T12:03:34 < rapha> thanks to whoever gave the WF200 as a suggestion earlier :)
2020-06-12T12:05:47 < zyp> https://www.devicespecifications.com/en/model/d6cc2d50 <- I think it was this thing I were debugging that issue for :)
2020-06-12T12:06:34 < zyp> not 100% sure, but the dates seems to line up
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2020-06-12T12:12:59 < zyp> although I never had the device itself, I reproduced the issue on one of these things: https://www.slashgear.com/texas-instruments-blaze-is-omap4-dev-device-lands-mid-2010-1574065/
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2020-06-12T12:32:28  * karlp edits the mici page on wikipedia
2020-06-12T12:38:13 < jadew> lol karlp 
2020-06-12T12:40:42 < Thorn> so this wf200 IC has a 4-pin coexistence interface for another 2.4GHz radio (presumably BLE), are there any BLE ICs that are actually compatible with this interface?
2020-06-12T12:40:44 < srk> oO kindle has imx6-7
2020-06-12T12:42:10 < Thorn> RHO/PTA_FREQ, PRIORITY/PTA_STATUS, REQUEST/PTA_RF_ACT, GRANT/PTA_TX_CONF
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2020-06-12T13:08:48 < rapha> Thorn: no idea, i'm only interested in the WiFi part for now. did you take a look at the driver examples I linked to?
2020-06-12T13:09:36 < Thorn> yeah looks easier than their own si4463 lol
2020-06-12T13:11:49 < rapha> https://www.silabs.com/documents/public/data-sheets/bgm210l-datasheet.pdf seems to be brand new, but no PTA or PRIORITY mentioned in the datasheet :(
2020-06-12T13:12:20 < rapha> oh wait, wrong datasheet i think
2020-06-12T13:18:38 < rapha> Thorn: https://www.silabs.com/documents/public/data-sheets/efr32bg22c112-datasheet.pdf is the datasheet for the QFN32 BLE IC ... but no mention of PTA or priority or shit there either
2020-06-12T13:20:09 < rapha> bullshit bingo answer on the subject: https://www.silabs.com/community/wireless/bluetooth/forum.topic.html/ble_mesh_wifi-Az0K
2020-06-12T13:20:53 < jly> grey cats
2020-06-12T13:21:42 < rapha> brown dogs
2020-06-12T13:21:44 < Thorn> that seems to be about protocols, not coexistence
2020-06-12T13:22:00 < rapha> yeah, but it's about the only thing that google came up weith
2020-06-12T13:22:01 < rapha> with*
2020-06-12T13:22:03 < Mangy_Dog> having a strange logic problem with an if statement... have i made a silly mistake and got syntax wrong or something? https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/695271473308237985/720945932295733329/unknown.png
2020-06-12T13:22:23 < Mangy_Dog> the return of 20 or 30 should make it go to the else if 20 or 30
2020-06-12T13:22:25 < Mangy_Dog> but umm
2020-06-12T13:22:31 < Mangy_Dog> its being passed through
2020-06-12T13:22:40 < Mangy_Dog> even though I havd !=20
2020-06-12T13:24:27 < Thorn> >if (reply != 20 || reply != 30) ... else if (reply == 20) ... else if (reply == 30) ...
2020-06-12T13:24:38 < Mangy_Dog> yeah
2020-06-12T13:24:44 < Thorn> reduced that to minimal code that tells the story
2020-06-12T13:24:45 < Mangy_Dog> that bit
2020-06-12T13:25:10 < Thorn> so, what branch will be taken if reply == 20?
2020-06-12T13:25:21 < Mangy_Dog> the second
2020-06-12T13:25:27 < Thorn> no?
2020-06-12T13:25:46 < Mangy_Dog> the head is do not pass.... the second is pass
2020-06-12T13:25:57 < Thorn> why?
2020-06-12T13:26:10 < Mangy_Dog> oh ffs
2020-06-12T13:26:13 < Mangy_Dog> i see it 
2020-06-12T13:26:14 < Mangy_Dog> &&
2020-06-12T13:26:17 < Mangy_Dog> not or
2020-06-12T13:26:19 < Thorn> 20 != 20 is false, 20 != 30 is true, false || true i true
2020-06-12T13:26:29 < Thorn> = true
2020-06-12T13:26:48 < Mangy_Dog> i knew it was going to be something stupid
2020-06-12T13:27:06 < Mangy_Dog> blame it on morning and 1 coffee
2020-06-12T13:28:06 < Mangy_Dog> right
2020-06-12T13:28:20 < Mangy_Dog> and funnily enough i got gto get ready to head out for an opticians appointment as well :d
2020-06-12T13:28:23 < Mangy_Dog> :D
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2020-06-12T14:12:21 < Cracki> don't be too clever with logic
2020-06-12T14:12:31 < Cracki> if (x == 20) ... else if (x == 30) ... else ...
2020-06-12T14:19:40 < zyp> hmm
2020-06-12T14:20:34 < zyp> I think I wanna write a cli shell now
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2020-06-12T14:22:03 < zyp> considering trying out C++ coroutines
2020-06-12T14:29:52 < zyp> gcc-arm-embedded is still only gcc9 though
2020-06-12T14:31:13 < specing> you can use Ada tasks, supported since gcc 1?
2020-06-12T14:31:14 < srk> :))))
2020-06-12T14:32:18 < zyp> hmm, looks like they bump the gcc version in the -q4-major release every november-december or so
2020-06-12T14:32:48 < zyp> so I guess still half a year until the standard toolchain supports it
2020-06-12T14:40:53 < rapha> oh cool https://de.aliexpress.com/item/4000906442860.html
2020-06-12T14:42:37 < karlp> how long before people complain that they can't run their blue pill code on those.
2020-06-12T14:45:38 < rapha> i don't care, it's another stm32 to play with without having to invest much
2020-06-12T14:45:59 < rapha> but yeah, they could have been more creative with the choice of color word
2020-06-12T14:45:59 < zyp> can't you get a nucleo for that price?
2020-06-12T14:47:13 < rapha> oh, didn't know about nucleo yet
2020-06-12T14:59:48 < rapha> sooo, platformio is really nice for stm32 and it seems to use the Arduino_Core_STM32 that's kind of supported-with-engineering-time by ST. and although they aready have a basic ADC/DAC library in there already, there's nothing yet for the built-in touch sensing controller. so i've been looking at the ST docs for that, but it's mostly about hardware considerations. is there a simple software example somewhere
2020-06-12T14:59:50 < rapha> for how to do that?
2020-06-12T15:04:18 < Cracki> f303cc for half the price unless you need what the f373 brings
2020-06-12T15:04:54 < zyp> IIRC the advantage of the f373 was the SDADC
2020-06-12T15:04:55 < Cracki> huh, same 32k ram, same 256k flash
2020-06-12T15:05:13 < zyp> so unless you need SDADC, you might as well go with f303
2020-06-12T15:05:16 < Cracki> ah yes
2020-06-12T15:05:43 < Cracki> https://www.aliexpress.com/item/33016045350.html
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2020-06-12T15:07:56 < Cracki> last time I ordered 5 or 6 at once and sold the rest in our "snack bar"
2020-06-12T15:08:20 < rapha> built-in SDADC is a nice thing
2020-06-12T15:08:21 < Cracki> advantage of disco/nucleo is that they come with stlink already
2020-06-12T15:08:33 < rapha> already have one for the bluepill anyways
2020-06-12T15:11:06 < rapha> nevermind about the touch thing; found https://github.com/stm32duino/Arduino_Core_STM32/issues/247 which has a link to an example
2020-06-12T15:12:37 < Cracki> >A generic LTDC and TS will need to be study. 
2020-06-12T15:15:42 < rapha> yes, but then the person who opened the issue closed it again before anything was studied or implemented
2020-06-12T15:16:23 < Cracki> reopen maybe
2020-06-12T15:16:29 < Cracki> unless it's already implemented
2020-06-12T15:17:00 < rapha> i asked about it
2020-06-12T15:17:37 < rapha> also not sure ... i think perhaps they only mean touchSCREEN ... i.e. not the capacitive touch controller peripheral that i'm after
2020-06-12T15:31:21 < Cracki> correct
2020-06-12T15:31:36 < Cracki> the resistive touch stuff on those LCDs requires two ADCs and that's it
2020-06-12T15:32:10 < Cracki> the capacitive stuff... benefits from the touch controller that handles all the analog fuckery
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2020-06-12T15:32:47 < Cracki> capacitive stuff is for discrete capacitive touch buttons. you can do that on a PCB. it's not for capacitive touch screens for all I know
2020-06-12T15:33:21 < aandrew> that's one of the peripherals I've never touched, all the capacitive touch stuff
2020-06-12T15:34:01 < karlp> dongs and emeb have iirc
2020-06-12T15:34:01 < Cracki> https://youtu.be/otCpCn0l4Wo?t=14
2020-06-12T15:37:40 < rapha> Cracki: that's what I want to do, but with a cable leading to a metal screw, not on the PCB. with that example though I think I'll be fine. just have to wait for the f303s to arrive. f103 doesn't have the touch controller.
2020-06-12T15:38:01 < qyx> wat screw cap sensing?
2020-06-12T15:38:27 < qyx> also you can do cap sensing with whatever you want
2020-06-12T15:38:40 < Cracki> if you're impatient, I think you can cook something up that implements the principle even with an f103
2020-06-12T15:38:43 < qyx> the controller is not anything amazing
2020-06-12T15:38:56 < qyx> it just automates the thing
2020-06-12T15:39:18 < qyx> you can manually switch the analog switch matrix to charge/discharge the cap with the electrode
2020-06-12T15:39:33 < qyx> in a timer interrupt
2020-06-12T15:39:54 < qyx> you could even make simple capsensing with a 1meg resistor only, use it as a pullup to 3V33
2020-06-12T15:40:22 < qyx> and configure one pwm channel in open-drain mode to discharge the electrode periodically
2020-06-12T15:40:39 < rapha> Cracki: nono, i have time. and any software-based solution will be a lot of work to reach the reliability of the built-in controller.
2020-06-12T15:40:49 < qyx> and another channel as input capture to measure how long it takes to recharge thorugh the 1meg again
2020-06-12T15:41:03 < rapha> qyx: "just automates" <--- a lot of work i don't have to do
2020-06-12T15:41:13 < englishman> ^^^
2020-06-12T15:41:17 < qyx> wat
2020-06-12T15:41:17 < rapha> hmm
2020-06-12T15:41:23 < qyx> configuring tsc takes about the same time
2020-06-12T15:41:25 < Cracki> sounds very economically aware
2020-06-12T15:41:33 < Cracki> :D
2020-06-12T15:41:36 < rapha> i wonder if any of the F030s have that touch controller peripheral
2020-06-12T15:41:42 < englishman> configuring tsc is like 3 lines
2020-06-12T15:42:01 < qyx> I don't believe canadians
2020-06-12T15:42:12 < englishman> same
2020-06-12T15:42:36 < qyx> heh
2020-06-12T15:42:49 < qyx> but the screw thing interests me more
2020-06-12T15:42:59 < qyx> rapha: what exactly are you trying to achieve?
2020-06-12T15:43:13 < qyx> tampering detection?
2020-06-12T15:43:51 < rapha> qyx: no, i need 4 buttons, each consisting of a steel screw with the head filed flat.
2020-06-12T15:44:15 < qyx> how long is the cable?
2020-06-12T15:45:09 < Cracki> this is the plan: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JX2gQZj3-NI
2020-06-12T15:45:44 < Cracki> at 2:25
2020-06-12T15:45:46 < qyx> can the video be compressed into a single line of text?
2020-06-12T15:46:15 < Cracki> thumbtack in thumb
2020-06-12T15:46:24 < rapha> qyx: not quite sure yet, but less than 15cm, which I'm hoping can still be made to work.
2020-06-12T15:46:55 < qyx> I would go with a CDC with capdac & active shield output
2020-06-12T15:46:59 < qyx> AD7147 for example
2020-06-12T15:47:55 < rapha> what's "CDC"?
2020-06-12T15:48:23 < qyx> capacitance-digital converter
2020-06-12T15:48:51 < rapha> okay, isn't a CDC with active shield output what the STM32 touch controller peripheral does, itself?
2020-06-12T15:48:58 < qyx> no
2020-06-12T15:49:04 < qyx> afaik
2020-06-12T15:49:30 < strata> they're the same thing?
2020-06-12T15:49:44 < qyx> isn't the STM32 one switched capacitor?
2020-06-12T15:50:53 < rapha> qyx: could you take a look at https://www.st.com/resource/en/application_note/dm00445657-getting-started-with-touch-sensing-control-on-stm32-microcontrollers-stmicroelectronics.pdf ? they have a lot of info on the active shield PCB design in there.
2020-06-12T15:51:35 < strata> https://www.st.com/content/ccc/resource/technical/document/reference_manual/c2/f8/8a/f2/18/e6/43/96/DM00031936.pdf/files/DM00031936.pdf/jcr:content/translations/en.DM00031936.pdf <-- see 16.2 TSC main features
2020-06-12T15:52:07 < qyx> I may be wrong, I never noticed any active shielding
2020-06-12T15:52:18 < qyx> also, I am in the basement trying to debun some CAN issue
2020-06-12T15:52:49 < qyx> F4 + MCP2551 no worky
2020-06-12T15:55:50 < strata> rapha, btw the link i just gave is for stm32f0{5,4,7,9}x
2020-06-12T15:56:23 < strata> but reference manual for your chip will have everything you need to know about driving the TSC
2020-06-12T15:58:50  * rapha looks
2020-06-12T15:59:06 < rapha> qyx: are you an automotive engineer?
2020-06-12T15:59:59 < rapha> strata: my trouble is mostly with figuring out the code. only did Arduino so far, now switched to VSCode + PlatformIO, but everything still very new. Especially the HAL-stuff is too low-level for me atm.
2020-06-12T16:00:42 < strata> tbf HAL has the TSC stuff last i played with it
2020-06-12T16:01:01 < rapha> strata: am I reading that PDF correctly that *all* of the F0xx have the TSC?
2020-06-12T16:01:12 < strata> no
2020-06-12T16:01:26 < strata> not all parts have it. which distro did you say you're on?
2020-06-12T16:01:51 < rapha> oh cool, they do have an example for TSC configuration & interrupt calling
2020-06-12T16:02:09 < strata> https://www.st.com/en/development-tools/stm32cubemx.html
2020-06-12T16:02:15 < rapha> strata: distro? you mean OS? ArchLinux. Or did you mean where I buy my parts from? Mouser and LCSC...
2020-06-12T16:02:23 < strata> ^ this works for me on arch (i run arch too)
2020-06-12T16:02:24 < strata> it's in AUR
2020-06-12T16:02:33 < strata> just search for stm32cubemx in AUR
2020-06-12T16:02:55 < rapha> Oh, the ST-owned thing. I thought that was Windows only. Thanks, will try!
2020-06-12T16:02:59 < strata> nah bro it works on linux too :)
2020-06-12T16:03:12 < rapha> (But ultimately it'd be nice if it could be made to work on PlatformIO, since I'm liking that more and more)
2020-06-12T16:03:13 < Cracki> all java
2020-06-12T16:03:40 < strata> anyway - cubemx has a UI you can use to find search parts faster/easier than ST's website. i.e. you can click "TSC" peripheral and filter by which part #s have it.
2020-06-12T16:04:11 < rapha> oh okay, so good to have it installed on the side anyhow
2020-06-12T16:05:01 < strata> yea. i use cubemx to do all my setup and pinout stuff
2020-06-12T16:05:14 < strata> and to search for parts
2020-06-12T16:05:28 < rapha> https://github.com/DISTORTEC/distortos/blob/master/source/chip/STM32/STM32F0/STM32F0.csv <--- holy cow!
2020-06-12T16:05:39 < rapha> but according to that, none of the TSSOP parts seem to have the TSC
2020-06-12T16:06:16 < strata> why it has to be tssop?
2020-06-12T16:06:50 < rapha> doesn't, i just like them :
2020-06-12T16:06:52 < rapha> :)
2020-06-12T16:09:47 < strata> cubemx says the f042f{4,6} have TSC
2020-06-12T16:09:51 < strata> in a tssop20
2020-06-12T16:10:55 < rapha> damn, i really need to install cubemx once i come home tonight
2020-06-12T16:11:00 < rapha> thanks for looking it up strata :)
2020-06-12T16:13:59 < dongs> I backported TSC from HAL into stdperiph, its not that complicated actually
2020-06-12T16:14:16 < dongs> i've used tsc on F042 QFN32 and im pretty sure tssop20 has it as well
2020-06-12T16:16:44 < aandrew> I use dong's stupid simple cycle counter for small busy loops sometimes
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2020-06-12T16:18:00 < rapha> dongs: what's stdperiph? is that a library to use with bare-metal coding, no cubemx, no nothing?
2020-06-12T16:18:18 < dongs> its the shit ST abandoned in fav or of gaycubemx
2020-06-12T16:18:29 < dongs> thats waht i used since before STM32 was "cool" so I just keep using that
2020-06-12T16:18:37 < aandrew> stdperiph is the old (now abandoned) st-approved library for their peripherals
2020-06-12T16:18:56 < aandrew> cubeMX and HAL is what they recommend now
2020-06-12T16:18:58 < rapha> dongs: got a link to your fork?
2020-06-12T16:19:11 < dongs> what's there to fork? you can still download it from st
2020-06-12T16:19:20 < dongs> if you mean tsc driver, its like 5 mins to convert it from hal to stdperiph 
2020-06-12T16:19:23 < dongs> its tiny anyway
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2020-06-12T16:19:47 < rapha> you said you backported into it
2020-06-12T16:19:51 < dongs> yeah
2020-06-12T16:20:19 < dongs> looking where the fuck i have that
2020-06-12T16:20:44 < aandrew> karlp is behind libopencm3 which (correct if I'm wrong) is a more abstracted library for a much wider array of cortex-m parts, not just stmicro
2020-06-12T16:21:45 < dongs> https://easyupload.io/zcjz51
2020-06-12T16:21:51 < zyp> not sure behind is the right word, but karlp is the current maintainer
2020-06-12T16:22:03 < dongs> f3 and f0 tsc is same
2020-06-12T16:22:09 < karlp> not much if any integrated work for the tsc yet that I remember
2020-06-12T16:22:32 < dongs> yeah everytime i think of using libopenaidscm3 for anything it doesnt support any of the peripherals or the devices i wanna use :p
2020-06-12T16:22:34 < jadew> lol, I ordered some leads from farnell (not sure if I mentioned this earlier) and they sent me a set with 2 (the set should have had 4)
2020-06-12T16:22:48 < jadew> I contacted them and their answer was that I should buy another one
2020-06-12T16:22:54 < jadew> and they'll waive the shipping fee
2020-06-12T16:22:59 < dongs> gee thanks
2020-06-12T16:23:02 < karlp> dongs: the whole lgpgl wasn't enough to turn you off on it's own? :)
2020-06-12T16:23:14 < dongs> karlp: i dont care, i routinely steal GPL'd code for commercial projects
2020-06-12T16:23:15 < dongs> :)
2020-06-12T16:23:20 < karlp> what periphs were you looking for anyway?
2020-06-12T16:23:27 < dongs> i forgot, this was like 5+ years ago
2020-06-12T16:23:33 < dongs> i think i wanted f3 support
2020-06-12T16:23:36 < dongs> and it was like
2020-06-12T16:23:40 < dongs> rcc, uart
2020-06-12T16:23:44 < dongs> and maybe somethign else
2020-06-12T16:23:54 < karlp> yeah, f3 was a fucking abortion of some university work that's taken me a few years to untangle the copy pasta
2020-06-12T16:24:20 < karlp> for quite a while jsut about every one was copyint the peripheral code to new targets.
2020-06-12T16:24:33 < karlp> it's much simpler now to compose up the various peripheral versions and variants.
2020-06-12T16:24:54 < karlp> speaking of, my host for the gadget0 testing shit is sitll stuck in post
2020-06-12T16:24:56 < karlp> should check on that
2020-06-12T16:24:59 < rapha> hmm US$8.79 for 5 TM32F042K6T6 ... https://de.aliexpress.com/item/32917583176.html
2020-06-12T16:25:11 < jadew> ah, nvm, they gave me some credit I think
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2020-06-12T16:25:27 < jpa-> i wonder if anyone has composed a nice table of the peripheral versions & major differences in different STM32 families
2020-06-12T16:25:44 < jpa-> so far i usually check libopencm3 or chibios source for a quick reference :P
2020-06-12T16:26:22 < zyp> jpa-, I've considered doing something like that for laks
2020-06-12T16:26:27 < karlp> jpa-: yeah, I was going to say, the list of .o's from locm3 is ~closeish
2020-06-12T16:26:29 < aandrew> yeah I just use Cube+FreeRTOS and look over at libopencm3 every now and again
2020-06-12T16:27:18 < aandrew> in particular I think opencm3's USB is eleventy seven times better/cleaner/understandable than HAL's
2020-06-12T16:28:05 < zyp> jpa-, instead of manually adding ifdefs and shit in each peripheral file, I could have a yaml or something that lists everything
2020-06-12T16:28:21 < aandrew> and HAL's ethernet library is horrible too; no way clean way to support custom PHY implementations, and some of the bugs between HAL and LwIP are *years* old
2020-06-12T16:28:54 < jpa-> chibios USB is really simple, libopencm3 USB is understandable; though libopencm3 USB is much more flexible with respect to where you do things, chibios basically forces you to dedicate one RTOS thread to USB
2020-06-12T16:29:37 < zyp> pff, everybody knows laks/usb is best :)
2020-06-12T16:29:42 < karlp> I wouldn't expect locm3s ethernet to be fancy, it's had very few users that I know of, and I'm not one of them, so it's had very little regression either
2020-06-12T16:29:45 < aandrew> I have never touched chibios
2020-06-12T16:29:58 < karlp> chibios shitted me to tears the firs ttime I tried it, 
2020-06-12T16:30:12 < karlp> but obviously I was "holding it wrong"
2020-06-12T16:30:27 < aandrew> karlp: well to be fair the amount of work opencm3 (or hal or anything) would do with ethernet is tiny; all the big work is in LwIP
2020-06-12T16:30:44 < karlp> yeah, it should just be init of the packet buffers right?
2020-06-12T16:31:10 < aandrew> yes: init hardware, provide a way to get frames in and out of the MAC. that's it
2020-06-12T16:31:27 < aandrew> oh and timestamping on hardware that supports it. that was what my last major contract was mostly about
2020-06-12T16:31:29 < karlp> what other stacks are there, lwip, uip (same code) picotcp (gpl, gak) any other libraries?
2020-06-12T16:31:42 < aandrew> NutOS I think it's called? that's another one
2020-06-12T16:31:53 < karlp> yeah, they're "posix"
2020-06-12T16:32:00 < zyp> freertos+tcp or whatever it's called?
2020-06-12T16:32:05 < karlp> but lwip/upip and picotcp are for putting into your own app
2020-06-12T16:32:13 < karlp> oh yar, freertos plus shit is free now 
2020-06-12T16:32:26 < aandrew> karlp: well NutOS has a TCP/IP library, it's been years
2020-06-12T16:33:07 < zyp> hmm
2020-06-12T16:33:09 < aandrew> serious question for pros: what technical/performance reasons would anyone choose any other RTOS over FreeRTOS on STM (or other embedded)? I've not noticed anything I can point to and say "fail"
2020-06-12T16:33:15 < karlp> it's not something you'd be able to use outside nuttos though would it?
2020-06-12T16:33:17 < Thorn> why i/o counts are misleading: (1) zynq family overview counts ddr3 interface among available i/o pins, stm32mp1 does not (2) mp1 has builtin usb phys so no need for ULPI
2020-06-12T16:33:30 < karlp> aandrew: familiarity is the only thing I can think of
2020-06-12T16:33:47 < aandrew> karlp: that's what Im thinking too -- it's come to the point where it's down to personal preference / historical reasons
2020-06-12T16:33:48 < karlp> I looked at mucous2/3 when they made them free a while ago and it's just "same, but different"
2020-06-12T16:33:51 < zyp> what's the cheapest source for small 2L PCBs when you include shipping cost?
2020-06-12T16:34:13 < zyp> jlcpcb got $2 pcbs, but then to get them I also have to pay $20 for DHL shipping
2020-06-12T16:34:19 < karlp> the years of the single cycle differences in context switching times seems to be well past us for the _performance_ reasons to matter 
2020-06-12T16:34:21 < aandrew> zyp: for me? my local (as in in my city) mfg; anything >2L they farm out ot Germany but they do 2L in their building
2020-06-12T16:34:23 < Thorn> aandrew I'm working on a homebrew solution using c++20 coroutines, it's going to be better than freertos because no preemptive multitasking, no need for multiple stacks and typesafe / modern looking
2020-06-12T16:34:34 < karlp> zyp: year, that dhl only to scandinavia right now is pretty shit
2020-06-12T16:34:36 < zyp> aandrew, well, for me
2020-06-12T16:34:58 < karlp> cmsis-rtos has nice(er) api names,
2020-06-12T16:35:07 < aandrew> Thorn: it's funny, I have had two recent contracts now where they're using C++ in Cortex-M stuff. I am *not* a fan
2020-06-12T16:35:08 < zyp> and no, to my knowledge there's no local pcb fabs in any sense here
2020-06-12T16:35:24 < karlp> but you're just layign indirection over the uynderylying os, be it freertos or rtx or whatever
2020-06-12T16:35:35 < zyp> I could probably contact some people I know at the uni to get a pcb milled
2020-06-12T16:36:05 < karlp> Thorn: you cna just turn off preemptive multitasking if you don't like it, saying something's better because it doesn't allow it is a bit disingenous
2020-06-12T16:36:10 < Thorn> aandrew c++ code can be horrendous, probably worst of any language except assembly written by someone with 0 clue. it all depends on the author
2020-06-12T16:36:41 < aandrew> karlp: yes, I hate xFuncThis and vTaskThat shit
2020-06-12T16:37:20 < aandrew> I think I want to buy a little Bantam mill, they look very nice
2020-06-12T16:37:24 < zyp> Thorn, how's that stuff going?
2020-06-12T16:37:33 < zyp> Thorn, also, do you have gcc10 for cortex-m yet?
2020-06-12T16:38:04 < Thorn> zyp I need to find time to compile gcc 10 for arm-none-eabi
2020-06-12T16:38:15 < Thorn> I've go a lot of code that needs testing
2020-06-12T16:38:31 < aandrew> Thorn: I'm just not even sure that C++ is a great fit -- I get it has some very nice features, but maybe I'm just getting old and set in my ways. I don't see a blindingly clear advantage for using std::chrono or creating classes and templates so I can have the option to do things that I'll likely never need to do
2020-06-12T16:38:51 < Thorn> std::chrono is terrible
2020-06-12T16:39:06 < Steffanx> Haha. Its awesome.
2020-06-12T16:39:09 < zyp> aandrew, then don't, everything C++ offers over C is optional
2020-06-12T16:39:15 < aandrew> I just had to connect the nRF52+nrf SDK's app_timer to std::chrono because it's C++
2020-06-12T16:39:31 < Steffanx> Had to?
2020-06-12T16:39:47 < aandrew> and write a power state managment class because they wanted to hook it up to googletest for unit testing
2020-06-12T16:39:52 < Steffanx> Or was the code already using chrono?
2020-06-12T16:39:55 < aandrew> it's the only C++ in the entire nordic app
2020-06-12T16:39:58 < aandrew> Steffanx: for a contract
2020-06-12T16:40:08 < Thorn> aandrew I opte for plain C for my nrf52 project because it's mostly SDK calls anyway. not much room to properly take advantage of c++
2020-06-12T16:40:09 < aandrew> one week of work turned into a month because of this C++ bullshit
2020-06-12T16:40:16 < aandrew> Thorn: agreed
2020-06-12T16:40:46 < aandrew> the other contract was using stm32plus and that is fucking nightmare template hell, so much fucking bullshit you can't even tell what the hardware is set up to do anymore, you kind of throw shit at the wall and hope it's right
2020-06-12T16:42:31 < zyp> > use shit libs
2020-06-12T16:42:34 < zyp> > blame the language
2020-06-12T16:44:40 < Thorn> buying stm32mp157aab3 qty 4, y/n
2020-06-12T16:44:43 < aandrew> zyp: no, stm32plus is only one contract
2020-06-12T16:44:56 < zyp> more than one lib can be shit
2020-06-12T16:45:17 < aandrew> the other one (the must use C++ in nrf) is trying to use as many standard features as possible
2020-06-12T16:45:33 < zyp> that's just silly requirements
2020-06-12T16:46:34 < Thorn> STL iterators, algorithms, utilities etc are OK in an embedded project but definitely not containers
2020-06-12T16:47:15 < aandrew> zyp: maybe. I'm curious to see what Thorn's coming up with. there was someone on here who was doing a lot of C++ with embedded a few years ago
2020-06-12T16:47:19 < Thorn> you can write custom allocators and stuff and use standard containers carefully
2020-06-12T16:47:52 < Thorn> and use ETL containers as your first choice when possible
2020-06-12T16:48:16 < Thorn> aandrew that was probably zyp lol
2020-06-12T16:48:26 < aandrew> no, it was leeloominai
2020-06-12T16:49:19 < zyp> yeah, I remember that stuff
2020-06-12T16:50:55 < zyp> for me, I use the C++ features that makes my life easier, not harder
2020-06-12T16:50:59 < zyp> there's plenty of both
2020-06-12T16:52:38 < zyp> templates as a typesafe alternative to preprocessor macros is good
2020-06-12T16:52:49 < zyp> template metaprogramming gets bad really quickly
2020-06-12T16:53:29 < karlp> aprinter duder too.
2020-06-12T16:53:58 < Thorn> this is my most used utility https://github.com/pthorn/cortexm-lib/blob/master/include/cortexm-lib/arrayref.h
2020-06-12T16:54:00  * karlp refers to ~/src/zypsnips/c++hacktastical.list
2020-06-12T16:54:30 < karlp> hrm, I've still only got pthon/cortexm-usb-driver
2020-06-12T16:54:38 < karlp> is cortexm-lib the "new home" of the extracted lib bits?Ð
2020-06-12T16:54:39 < Thorn> it replaces C-style uint8_t* buf, size_t length
2020-06-12T16:55:07 < Thorn> karlp it's separate from the usb project
2020-06-12T16:55:12 < aandrew> hahaha nordic released an official statement about the nrf52 APPROTECT circumvention
2020-06-12T16:55:38 < srk> link link
2020-06-12T16:56:03 < aandrew> https://infocenter.nordicsemi.com/pdf/in_133_v1.0.pdf?utm_campaign=Product%20Update%20Notifications&utm_medium=email&_hsmi=89420140&_hsenc=p2ANqtz-9R0-S9im9csjPpFMmrQX8_LKZs0WhgcnD5CDGCGxqapJIVlwkHQYO5GVGoV9fUIkAmb0w2HBsmvf42p5dm7Jwl_fCdlw&utm_content=89420140&utm_source=hs_email
2020-06-12T16:56:07 < aandrew> sorry for the shitty link
2020-06-12T16:56:13 < aandrew> should have stipped off that utm bullshit
2020-06-12T16:56:15 < srk> np
2020-06-12T16:56:24 < strata> all good. it's your advertisement tags
2020-06-12T16:56:49 < aandrew> "holy shit this guy is all over the world"
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2020-06-12T16:58:06 < strata> "The nRF52-series of SoCs, like many standard microcontroller circuits, are not hardened against fault injection techniques"
2020-06-12T16:58:13 < strata> well yea they got a point there
2020-06-12T16:58:26 < srk> fun, it should be pretty clear by now that readout protection without additional measures is not sufficient 
2020-06-12T16:59:02 < srk> you could add another mcu watching power lines for glitching attempts, right?
2020-06-12T16:59:19 < strata> what about one of those greenpak thingies?
2020-06-12T16:59:43 < strata> seems like they might be good for detecting glitches and then signaling to the mcu to SHUT IT DOWN
2020-06-12T16:59:55 < strata> da greenpak know
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2020-06-12T17:02:02 < zyp> strata, if you have access to the hardware for power glitching, you could just pick away any external power monitors
2020-06-12T17:03:24 < rapha> strata: okay, browsing through STM32 feature lists is addictive but i'll go with the STM32F042K6T6TR. cheap and available and has everything i'll ever need for this project, and then some.
2020-06-12T17:03:51 < strata> you're probably gonna wanna split that out to a breadboard
2020-06-12T17:03:58 < strata> using one of those tssop->dip board thingies
2020-06-12T17:04:51 < rapha> actually, ended up ordering the QFP version afterall since that's what mouser had :P
2020-06-12T17:04:58 < rapha> but yes, need some adapters for that.
2020-06-12T17:05:07 < strata> now you're just flexing
2020-06-12T17:05:31 < rapha> how?
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2020-06-12T17:05:53 < strata> QFP is almost a Baller Grid Assault weapon
2020-06-12T17:06:23 < zyp> are you thinking of QFN?
2020-06-12T17:06:24 < rapha> it still has legs, c'mon!
2020-06-12T17:06:33 < rapha> yes, qfn is a biatch
2020-06-12T17:06:53 < strata> rapha, aight one thing you might want to consider is i don't think the f042 has USB
2020-06-12T17:07:00 < rapha> yes!
2020-06-12T17:07:02 < rapha> it does!
2020-06-12T17:07:05 < rapha> crystal-less!
2020-06-12T17:07:15 < aandrew> I haven't thought it completely through yet , but I'd have thought a fast BOR would mostly prevent these kinds of glitching attacks
2020-06-12T17:07:22 < strata> hrm really?
2020-06-12T17:07:25  * strata looks in cubemx
2020-06-12T17:07:25 < zyp> can confirm, f042 is smallest part with usb
2020-06-12T17:07:30 < aandrew> they'd have to be implemeted on the internal power rails though
2020-06-12T17:07:31 < dongs> yeah it has
2020-06-12T17:07:36 < rapha> zyp: thanks for confirming :)
2020-06-12T17:07:37 < dongs> im using it on 042 qfn version
2020-06-12T17:07:46 < strata> oh well then. that sounds like the perfect part for this, rapha
2020-06-12T17:07:47 < dongs> same 32 pins but proper non make:r package
2020-06-12T17:07:58 < rapha> dongs: but you're baking that, not hand-soldering, are you?
2020-06-12T17:08:02 < strata> because afaik platformio only does stm32 with usb
2020-06-12T17:08:04 < dongs> well yeah obviously
2020-06-12T17:08:12 < rapha> okay, because THAT would have been *flexing*
2020-06-12T17:08:30 < strata> rapha, flexing is when i baked qfns on the stove
2020-06-12T17:08:39 < strata> with tinfoil like a crackhead
2020-06-12T17:08:42 < rapha> dongs: btw built myself a reflow oven from an old halogen flood light. works fine, even for those Cree LEDs with pads on the bottom only :)
2020-06-12T17:08:57 < dongs> i bought myself a nice nitrogen-filled reflow that just works
2020-06-12T17:09:14 < dongs> instead of ghettoing up a fucking toaster
2020-06-12T17:09:26 < rapha> well, it now also just works
2020-06-12T17:09:34 < aandrew> I got one of those STM32G4 nucleo boards, that part has those high resolution timers on it
2020-06-12T17:09:48 < dongs> i can do BGA and 0201 parts in it, how about you
2020-06-12T17:09:55 < rapha> but good on you for having the money available dongs 
2020-06-12T17:10:11 < rapha> the oven could do both BGA and 0201 but i couldn't
2020-06-12T17:10:16 < rapha> you probably also have a P&P
2020-06-12T17:10:17 < zyp> rapha, well, when you're doing it for a living…
2020-06-12T17:10:21 < aandrew> I just use my $50 ayouyue hot air for BGAs/etc
2020-06-12T17:10:35 < rapha> zyp: yes, hence why this is apples and oranges
2020-06-12T17:10:36 < aandrew> also have a toaster oven reflow but don't use it much
2020-06-12T17:10:45 < dongs> gayoyue
2020-06-12T17:10:57 < dongs> i had one of those T110 or wahtever chink ovens
2020-06-12T17:11:01 < zyp> I need to go pick up my reflow oven soon so I can burn down the house
2020-06-12T17:11:01 < aandrew> I like dongs stencil machine, that's some nice engineering
2020-06-12T17:11:02 < dongs> tried to do batches of shit repeatedly in it
2020-06-12T17:11:07 < dongs> after like 3rd batch it caught fire
2020-06-12T17:11:14 < aandrew> dongs: lol srs
2020-06-12T17:11:33 < rapha> see another advantage of the DIY oven: you're in full control over whether or not you want it to catch fire
2020-06-12T17:11:52 < Cracki> >ovens
2020-06-12T17:11:53 < strata> ya
2020-06-12T17:11:54 < Cracki> >batches
2020-06-12T17:11:57 < Cracki> inb4 math
2020-06-12T17:12:05 < strata> bunch of math cookers in here, Cracki. especially mawk
2020-06-12T17:12:13 < Cracki> I'm partial to batches of cookies
2020-06-12T17:12:40 < rapha> strata: in your experience, can such a chip handle being put within 3cm of a high-frequency buck converter (one of the TI parts that can do 4A and run at ~1.5MHz)?
2020-06-12T17:12:42 < Cracki> the numbers! they...
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2020-06-12T17:12:48 < zyp> dongs, speaking of shit, you still using that fancy stencil holder thing?
2020-06-12T17:12:54 < dongs> ya, its great
2020-06-12T17:13:07 < dongs> the one with air stretch thing/updown base?
2020-06-12T17:13:13 < zyp> yeah
2020-06-12T17:13:15 < dongs> yep
2020-06-12T17:13:38 < dongs> good shit, i trashed my shitty european or wahtever the fuck thing i had before
2020-06-12T17:13:40 < dongs> no regrets
2020-06-12T17:14:04 < strata> rapha, it will probably be ok... but you're going to be doing touch sensing so i don't know. i'm not an RF engineer.
2020-06-12T17:14:06 < aandrew> I covered the inside of my oven with that reflect-a-gold tape, used muffler ... putty? to seal all edges, added insulation around the chamber and a layer of fiberglass "blanket" under the main cover
2020-06-12T17:14:16 < aandrew> should hold heat fairly well and be relatively fireproof
2020-06-12T17:14:42 < rapha> strata: i hope that'll be fine because that probably doesn't give much of a fuck about 1.5MHz.
2020-06-12T17:14:52 < dongs> i have touchsense next to a 1.5mhz 3.3V buckboost and it works fine so idk
2020-06-12T17:15:01 < strata> yea but there's these things called harmonics and parasitic oscillations
2020-06-12T17:15:23 < strata> and the TSC is oscillating at HF too
2020-06-12T17:15:23 < rapha> yes, and my riglol-owning ass does worry about that
2020-06-12T17:15:27 < zyp> dongs, I figure stencilling is what I sucked the most at last I assembled shit myself, so I'd like to improve that
2020-06-12T17:16:04 < zyp> so I'd also like to have a decent stencil holder :p
2020-06-12T17:16:14 < rapha> strata: different ground planes, few crosing wires, if so, then at 90°, perhaps i'll be fine
2020-06-12T17:16:18 < rapha> crossing*
2020-06-12T17:16:20 < strata> read that as riglol-owning class
2020-06-12T17:16:39 < rapha> :)
2020-06-12T17:16:41 < strata> bourgeoiscilliscope
2020-06-12T17:16:50 < rapha> yeah, happy to have a DSO at all
2020-06-12T17:17:03 < rapha> and a gf who's really good at math
2020-06-12T17:17:07 < rapha> because i can't do math for shit
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2020-06-12T17:18:02 < rapha> wow. ebay: 3€ for a stupid LQFP-32 adapter _from_china_. aliexpress: give us treefitty and we'll throw 30 of 'em your way, kthxbye
2020-06-12T17:18:53 < Cracki> breakout boards?
2020-06-12T17:19:35 < rapha> Cracki: yes
2020-06-12T17:19:39 < Cracki> I'm gonna need a breakout for max44009, which are 0.65mm 6-pin no-leg bugs
2020-06-12T17:19:50 < Cracki> (I have a handful samples I need to start using)
2020-06-12T17:20:00 < rapha> whatp ackage?
2020-06-12T17:20:06 < Cracki> they made their own afaics
2020-06-12T17:20:15 < Cracki> not compatible with any breakouts I have
2020-06-12T17:20:19 < Cracki> and I have 0.65mm breakouts
2020-06-12T17:20:33 < Cracki> thank god there's a simple design on easyeda I can steal/modify
2020-06-12T17:20:58 < Cracki> (more than 0.4" distance between rows, you only need 0.4" for a breadboard if at all
2020-06-12T17:21:49 < Cracki> I think I last soldered noleg packages back in 2016 and that was a mess, and I had access to hot air back then
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2020-06-12T17:55:23 < karlp> you can do it!
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2020-06-12T18:56:45 < Thorn> what is the point of 354 balls if most of them are power & gnd? https://i.imgur.com/dKSBFKp.png
2020-06-12T18:57:36 < Thorn> is the goal to minimize inductance or is the package too big for the chip inside lol?
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2020-06-12T19:41:17 < rapha> Thorn: The Tyranny of Standards
2020-06-12T19:42:15 < jpa-> it's just so that you can have some easy balls to route, to take a break from the hard ones
2020-06-12T19:46:08 < Cracki> wat. I'm doing a simple 0.3x0.6" board. 10pc cost 5 bucks, 15pc cost 4.67!
2020-06-12T19:46:28 < karlp> the real wat there is you're speaking in inches... :)
2020-06-12T19:46:34 < Cracki> nvm, unit price *facepalm*
2020-06-12T19:46:45 < jpa-> that's some expensive boards
2020-06-12T19:46:45 < Cracki> 25 pc 4.20 bucks
2020-06-12T19:47:00 < Cracki> *headscratch*
2020-06-12T19:47:13 < Cracki> 100pc 8.60, not unit price. just wat
2020-06-12T19:53:13 < brdb> $4.20? funding secured?
2020-06-12T19:53:14 < Cracki> 2 layers. topside: GND, signals, components (one with EP, likely not thermal), pullup resistors drop a via to bottom which is vcc pour. is that tolerable to you professionals?
2020-06-12T19:53:30 < Cracki> I'll have to upend my sofa for copper to pay for that
2020-06-12T19:53:48 < Cracki> I'm sure I'll have to sell my butt to pay for shipping
2020-06-12T20:03:30 < Cracki> gnd goes directly to the single chip, nowhere else, I figure no need for a pour. gave the EP a little "yard"
2020-06-12T20:05:10 < Cracki> roast my board https://imgur.com/a/K0DfF4Y
2020-06-12T20:08:23 < jpa-> meh, just knife that
2020-06-12T20:08:30 < karlp> why does it say VCC twice on some pads?
2020-06-12T20:09:14 < Cracki> knife as in score it into a blank copper perfboard?
2020-06-12T20:09:17 < jpa-> karlp: it's a vcc pad with vcc via on it
2020-06-12T20:09:30 < jpa-> Cracki: score it into blank pcb, not perfboard
2020-06-12T20:09:53 < Cracki> ye, I don't actually have blank board around, just various kinds of perfboard
2020-06-12T20:10:34 < karlp> ah, via in pad at jumbo scales?
2020-06-12T20:11:42 < jpa-> Cracki: the heavy connection on the gnd pin may be a bit annoying to solder, depending on your tools
2020-06-12T20:11:54 < Cracki> passives 0603 because that's all I have right here :D if those vias cause problems, I'll learn from it. for 2layer boards they won't give me smaller than 0.3mm via
2020-06-12T20:12:33 < karlp> there's plenty of space for 0.4mm or even bigger there, but sure, if you want to learn from it.
2020-06-12T20:12:43 < Cracki> I think I gave gnd 12 mil, but vcc is 20 mil to the big pour
2020-06-12T20:13:23 < Cracki> I hope it'll challenge me. my iron isn't pr0 level but decent
2020-06-12T20:14:39 < Cracki> people here said smaller vias aren't wicking solder out of pads so I was hoping to use 0.2mm but eh
2020-06-12T20:15:29 < jpa-> if you are soldering manually, it doesn't matter anyway
2020-06-12T20:15:45 < Cracki> that's the plan
2020-06-12T20:18:57 < Cracki> oh! people do the exposed/thermal pad like so: big vias in EP to back, solder legs/pads first, then solder through board
2020-06-12T20:19:09 < Cracki> is that an advisable thing to do?
2020-06-12T20:19:36 < Laurenceb> keek oh wow uk
2020-06-12T20:19:45 < Laurenceb> >fines for not wearing a face mask
2020-06-12T20:19:50 < Laurenceb> my orbital sides
2020-06-12T20:19:58 < Laurenceb> >mask is not proven
2020-06-12T20:20:08 < Laurenceb> >masks is face news, a conspiracy theory
2020-06-12T20:20:15 < Laurenceb> >face news lol
2020-06-12T20:20:16 < jpa-> Cracki: it's a way, but reflow or just hot air is better, and even just heating the top side pour with iron works
2020-06-12T20:20:18 < strata> >i can't breathe
2020-06-12T20:20:36 < Laurenceb> >masks just means emergency workers cant get them
2020-06-12T20:20:38 < Cracki> no hot air unfortunately. never needed it until now.
2020-06-12T20:20:45 < Laurenceb> >ebay uk bans mask sales
2020-06-12T20:20:54 < Laurenceb> >uk gov says to wear masks
2020-06-12T20:21:00 < strata> Cracki, sorry i took your hot air tool. i needed a ventillator.
2020-06-12T20:21:00 < Laurenceb> >nobody can buy masks
2020-06-12T20:21:07 < Cracki> hm, I guess I'll figure it out. 4 bucks to fab is cheap enough for mistakes
2020-06-12T20:21:16 < Laurenceb> >uk gov fines people for not wearing masks
2020-06-12T20:21:16 < Laurenceb> my sides are now orbital
2020-06-12T20:21:27 < Laurenceb> no wonder we have worst death toll in europe
2020-06-12T20:21:55 < jpa-> https://www.ebay.com/itm/220V-450-450W-LCD-Soldering-Station-Hot-Air-Gun-ICs-Desolder-BGA-Nozzle-M117/303335791247?hash=item46a038da8f:g:MfoAAOSw1jpcF1SV   i bought this, it's actually quite nice even though the displayed numbers are pretty random
2020-06-12T20:21:58 < strata> Laurenceb, you want us to kneel on another airflow training mannequin so UK can do moar protest?
2020-06-12T20:22:02 < Laurenceb> >b& from buying masks and fined for not buying a mask
2020-06-12T20:22:07 < Laurenceb> lol
2020-06-12T20:22:08 < specing> Laurenceb: we've been there 2 months ago
2020-06-12T20:22:19 < Cracki> wow that's some bargain price there
2020-06-12T20:23:01 < Laurenceb> I managed to get about 20 3M masks minutes before ebay b& them in uk
2020-06-12T20:23:02 < Cracki> just wear loli panties from the vending machine
2020-06-12T20:23:10 < Laurenceb> but I;m keeping them all lol
2020-06-12T20:23:50 < Laurenceb> >face coverings on public transport is now compulsory
2020-06-12T20:23:51 < Laurenceb> lmao
2020-06-12T20:24:36 < Cracki> I'd recommend just opening all windows and keeping air flowing instead
2020-06-12T20:26:35 < specing> Laurenceb: coverings, not masks
2020-06-12T20:26:40 < specing> just put a sock over your face
2020-06-12T20:27:02 < Laurenceb> ywlts cumsock masks
2020-06-12T20:27:38 < strata> maybe that's your ticket to becoming the next george soros. amass your fortune by starting Coomer Socks, Inc.
2020-06-12T20:28:46 < Cracki> ye I'll go with just heating the copper beside the EP. that whole thing is so tiny
2020-06-12T20:28:56 < strata> soros will need a strapping young lad such as yourself to be the face of the foundation when they put his brain in a jar and hook it up to electrodes that control the world bank.
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2020-06-12T20:33:42 < zyp> question
2020-06-12T20:35:32 < zyp> I'm making a cli shell that users can register commands to, what would be the preferred way of doing that?
2020-06-12T20:35:58 < strata> in the lunix or on stm32?
2020-06-12T20:36:16 < strata> i made a cli thingy over uart a month or so ago
2020-06-12T20:37:03 < zyp> the command handler itself will be a function (in the future probably a coroutine), and it'll probably have a handle that'll contain the function pointer and a help text and any other necessary metadata
2020-06-12T20:38:07 < zyp> so my question is, what's the best way to give the command dispatcher a list of available commands?
2020-06-12T20:38:21 < jpa-> https://jpa.kapsi.fi/svn/paatti/cmd/cmd_fs.h   lots of x-macros of course!
2020-06-12T20:38:34 < zyp> I've also made one of these before for work
2020-06-12T20:38:36 < Cracki> you need some structure that's doing the string->handler mapping. simplest I can think of is an array of structs and linear scan and string compare
2020-06-12T20:39:21 < Cracki> and "user code" registers itself through a cli-given api that adds such an entry to its own data
2020-06-12T20:39:25 < zyp> Cracki, sure, the handle is that struct
2020-06-12T20:39:43 < Cracki> maybe I don't quite grasp the scope
2020-06-12T20:40:13 < zyp> in the previous one I wrote, I do it that way, each module calls shell_register_command() or something like that with each own commands
2020-06-12T20:41:06 < zyp> the downside of doing it this way is that the list is built dynamically, which both increases startup time (probably negligible) and requires the list to stay in ram
2020-06-12T20:41:25 < jpa-> you could store just list of lists
2020-06-12T20:41:36 < jpa-> so the ram impact is pretty small also
2020-06-12T20:42:16 < zyp> jpa-, I actually think that's what I do in work code
2020-06-12T20:42:43 < zyp> each module makes a list that's an array, and then I have another struct pointing to that that's a linked list node
2020-06-12T20:42:45 < jpa-> with linker script magic one could also do it very neatly, by just collecting the structs to a specific section
2020-06-12T20:42:52 < zyp> yes
2020-06-12T20:43:01 < zyp> that's what I was about to mention as another obvious solution
2020-06-12T20:43:50 < zyp> my question as such is not so much «how?» but «which sounds better?»
2020-06-12T20:43:58 < jpa-> http://paste.dy.fi/uf4/plain   in mcufont i had this funny trick, so that when you just #include all headers you get linked list constructed automatically
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2020-06-12T20:45:52 < zyp> jpa-, haha, nice, I hate it :)
2020-06-12T20:46:28 < Cracki> *taking notes*
2020-06-12T20:46:30 < jpa-> :|
2020-06-12T20:46:42 < Cracki> that's the kind of dirty that makes life easy
2020-06-12T20:49:14 < jpa-> oh, and then there is nuttx-way, which uses some makefile tricks to build a header with all the command definitions
2020-06-12T20:50:06 < zyp> I generally want to avoid external code generation
2020-06-12T20:54:26 < strata> https://twitter.com/Timcast/status/1271154855877513216
2020-06-12T20:56:37 < zyp> I could do it the C++-ugly way
2020-06-12T20:58:05 < jpa-> https://codereview.stackexchange.com/questions/102495/compile-time-list-in-c   you could have template crap like this and then a List per module and .merge() them in compile time.. but that's not much different than just #defines
2020-06-12T21:08:48 < zyp> jpa-, how about this? https://paste.jvnv.net/view/1ayop
2020-06-12T21:09:55 < Cracki> I wonder how they'll put an order number on those tiny boards... :D
2020-06-12T21:11:14 < jpa-> zyp: seems like it will end up in ram anyway, plus you'll probably get wrappers and whatnot for all the lambdas
2020-06-12T21:11:55 < zyp> of course this goes in ram, it's still dynamically building a linked list
2020-06-12T21:12:07 < zyp> lambdas without captures are just anonymous functions
2020-06-12T21:13:48 < zyp> https://paste.jvnv.net/view/6RF8y <- here's how cortex-m disassembly looks
2020-06-12T21:14:19 < jpa-> hmm yeah, not bad
2020-06-12T21:14:39 < jpa-> i'd probably make the class CMDLIST instead so that you get the ram overhead only per module
2020-06-12T21:14:43 < zyp> heh, love that printf without arguments gets optimized to puts
2020-06-12T21:14:46 < jpa-> but the static pointer for registering is nice
2020-06-12T21:15:38 < jpa-> i wonder why the optimizer felt such high register pressure in the middle that it decided to push lr
2020-06-12T21:16:19 < zyp> uh? because bl overwrites it
2020-06-12T21:16:50 < jpa-> i mean in the _GLOBAL__sub_I__ZN3CMD5firstE
2020-06-12T21:17:02 < zyp> ah
2020-06-12T21:17:40 < zyp> ldrlr, [pc, #60]
2020-06-12T21:18:18 < zyp> wait, this is not thumb
2020-06-12T21:18:50 < jpa-> https://godbolt.org/z/8ioA8A   this is what godbolt gave
2020-06-12T21:19:18 < jpa-> more what i expect, only using r0-r3
2020-06-12T21:19:29 < zyp> https://paste.jvnv.net/view/OoxJM <- here it is with -mcpu=cortex-m0plus
2020-06-12T21:19:39 < jpa-> though with -O2 it again decides that it's faster with more registers
2020-06-12T21:20:01 < zyp> my first one was with only -O2, no other flags
2020-06-12T21:20:09 < Cracki> lel boards 4.20 shipping 8.61 it's ridic
2020-06-12T21:20:30 < zyp> not sure what it defaults to, but I guess it might be some old arm with weird register usage restrictions that makes using lr beneficial
2020-06-12T21:23:46 < jpa-> it seems that -O2 just makes it try too hard
2020-06-12T21:23:50 < jpa-> even with thumb
2020-06-12T21:26:57 < zyp> the internal linked list stuff makes help self contained: https://paste.jvnv.net/view/iWzZS
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2020-06-12T22:22:00 < Steffanx> mawk you were into wireguard right?
2020-06-12T22:22:07 < mawk> yes
2020-06-12T22:22:10 < mawk> why ?
2020-06-12T22:22:21 < Steffanx> Is there no official server support for the windows?
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2020-06-12T22:37:27 < Steffanx> ok that's a no, mawk :P
2020-06-12T22:37:37 < mawk> what
2020-06-12T22:37:43 < mawk> what do you mean ?
2020-06-12T22:37:56 < mawk> come on #wireguard
2020-06-12T22:38:04 < mawk> we geef support
2020-06-12T22:39:11 < Steffanx> https://www.henrychang.ca/how-to-setup-wireguard-vpn-server-on-windows/ that seems like a lot of hassle, mawk
2020-06-12T22:39:26 < Steffanx> but ill just go for a client on the windows side, much less hassle
2020-06-12T22:39:40 < mawk> what
2020-06-12T22:39:45 < mawk> ah
2020-06-12T22:39:50 < mawk> server on windows
2020-06-12T22:39:59 < mawk> yeah you need to do NAT shit
2020-06-12T22:40:04 < mawk> just use a Linux vm
2020-06-12T22:40:07 < mawk> way easier
2020-06-12T22:40:22 < mawk> but wg is symmetric
2020-06-12T22:40:28 < mawk> there's no client or server
2020-06-12T22:40:32 < Steffanx> and: *Wij geven support
2020-06-12T22:40:34 < mawk> just, one side can be a router
2020-06-12T22:40:36 < Steffanx> or wij leveren support
2020-06-12T22:40:56 < mawk> if you want it to be more than just a point to point tunnel
2020-06-12T22:41:09 < Steffanx> or we.
2020-06-12T22:42:09 < mawk> we geven geen support voor zooie OS
2020-06-12T22:42:14 < mawk> like this??
2020-06-12T22:42:30 < Steffanx> zooie?
2020-06-12T22:42:32 < Steffanx> lol
2020-06-12T22:42:50 < mawk> shitty
2020-06-12T22:42:52 < mawk> no?
2020-06-12T22:43:11 < Steffanx> zooie doesnt sound dutch
2020-06-12T22:43:15 < mawk> :(
2020-06-12T22:43:25 < mawk> how to adjectify zooi
2020-06-12T22:43:45 < qyx> anyone used 1ot.mobi or 1nce.com SIM cards?
2020-06-12T22:44:00 < Steffanx> Zooi > "a mess" im not sure how to use it like that
2020-06-12T22:45:07 < mawk> how to say shitty
2020-06-12T22:46:19 < Steffanx> crappy? :P
2020-06-12T22:46:51 < Steffanx> idk, im not even sure if we have a proper translation
2020-06-12T22:47:06 < Steffanx> Dont you hear dutchies say "shit" all the time?
2020-06-12T22:58:14 < qyx> Ken-Tristan Peterson sounds nordic
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2020-06-12T22:59:35 < Steffanx> iot hacker qyx?
2020-06-12T22:59:39 < Steffanx> then its estonian.
2020-06-12T23:01:42 < qyx> despite being free of corporate BS and transparent, they don't have a pricing calculator
2020-06-12T23:02:44 < qyx> they only claim 0.05€/1MB on the map
2020-06-12T23:02:55 < qyx> 1nce is cheaper then, 500MB for 10e
2020-06-12T23:03:37 < Steffanx> what kind of calculator do you expect?
2020-06-12T23:04:34 < qyx> [ ] europe, [ ] USA .. , [ ] roaming enabled, monthly card fee is.., select MB per device, select MB per pool, price = ..
2020-06-12T23:04:56 < qyx> instead of that there is just "no BS, accurate offer for you, contanc sales"
2020-06-12T23:06:04 < qyx> is it that hard to say "One SIM costs 5€, one MB costs <see map>"?
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2020-06-12T23:12:19 < mawk> so Steffanx 
2020-06-12T23:12:21 < mawk> using a lunix vm
2020-06-12T23:12:23 < jpa-> but the price depends on how your private sauna night with the sales representative goes
2020-06-12T23:12:56 < Steffanx> yeah, that's fucked up mawk
2020-06-12T23:13:04 < Steffanx> can i join, jpa-?
2020-06-12T23:13:25 < mawk> well you can do it using windows Steffanx 
2020-06-12T23:13:32 < mawk> but you need to be a router and do NAT
2020-06-12T23:13:32 < Steffanx> that's fucked up as well
2020-06-12T23:13:41 < mawk> and I think you need to have windows enterprise or something
2020-06-12T23:13:43 < mawk> or pro
2020-06-12T23:13:45 < mawk> why ???¿
2020-06-12T23:13:50 < mawk> it can't be fucked up both ways
2020-06-12T23:15:24 < mawk> but come on #wireguard I'm sure people have done it and can help you
2020-06-12T23:16:55 < mawk> /invite steffanx #wireguard
2020-06-12T23:17:01 < Steffanx> nah
2020-06-12T23:17:04 < Steffanx> im fine.
2020-06-12T23:17:08 < mawk> :(
2020-06-12T23:17:14 < mawk> you're not fine
2020-06-12T23:17:21 < mawk> you have issues that needs addressing
2020-06-12T23:17:29 < mawk> otherwise you cannot live your life normally
2020-06-12T23:17:56 < Steffanx> i have no issues.
2020-06-12T23:26:16 < mawk> :(
2020-06-12T23:26:21 < mawk> you want to install wg on windows
2020-06-12T23:26:25 < mawk> what's your topology Steffanx ?
2020-06-12T23:26:28 < mawk> and why do you want to do it
2020-06-12T23:26:45 < mawk> you just want a tunnel between two computers ? or you want a site-to-site vpn ? or a "regular" vpn to access internet through another computer ?
2020-06-12T23:31:17 < strata> Steffanx, be careful. mawk is a wireguard shill.
2020-06-12T23:32:05 < strata> he's gonna try to get you to use it and then profit off of you when wireguard goes closed source commercialized cloud VPN service solution, and you're locked in.
2020-06-12T23:32:34 < rapha> what's a "shill"?
2020-06-12T23:34:17 < Cracki> you're watching a shell game in a pedestrian zone. another observer dares, and wins big. he acts like it's child's play and urges you to play too.
2020-06-12T23:34:19 < Cracki> that's a shill.
2020-06-12T23:35:31 < qyx> Cracki: https://i.imgur.com/wHHNskB.png
2020-06-12T23:35:51 < qyx> I want b2b but without the reverse charge thing
2020-06-12T23:35:59 < Steffanx> im not sure what i need yet, will know tomorrow mawk :P
2020-06-12T23:36:00 < Cracki> >1nceI oT 4pm Rate Flattening
2020-06-12T23:36:46 < Cracki> b2b soso
2020-06-12T23:36:57 < qyx> do germans have businesses without VAT reverse charging?
2020-06-12T23:37:13 < qyx> ie. I want to have VAT added on the invoice even if I am a business
2020-06-12T23:37:30 < Cracki> I have no idea how vat works with germany + non-germany
2020-06-12T23:37:47 < qyx> mhm
2020-06-12T23:39:15 < Cracki> in the few contracts I did, my invoice specified VAT. they pay x+19% and get 19% back from the tax man, and I collect x+19% and send 19% to the tax man
2020-06-12T23:39:54 < Cracki> if you have little enough revenue, you can skip that, but then you can't get VAT back for anything you buy for your "business" either.
2020-06-12T23:40:49 < Cracki> if you want to get vat back for supplies/equipment/etc you are registered without this "small fry" clause, and then you have to give them more numbers and the invoices give VAT
2020-06-12T23:41:31 < qyx> yes I am the latter case, I don't do all that VAT things
2020-06-12T23:42:13 < Cracki> I'd give the tax man a call
2020-06-12T23:42:23 < Cracki> it's their job to help you
2020-06-12T23:42:30 < qyx> we have the possibility to state that our business expenses are fixed 60% of the income and then the taxes are much easier
2020-06-12T23:42:48 < qyx> so the tax is paid for the rest 40% only
2020-06-12T23:42:56 < Cracki> tax man = tax office, not accountant
2020-06-12T23:43:00 < qyx> yeah
2020-06-12T23:44:32 < Cracki> hm wait, you want them to include VAT... so you say that you "don't have" an ID, and they will include VAT?
2020-06-12T23:45:09 < qyx> basically yes
2020-06-12T23:45:26 < qyx> despite having one
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2020-06-12T23:56:08 < qyx> ok A 1NCE representative will get in touch with you as soon as possible - that is a promise! 
2020-06-12T23:56:24 < qyx> ow move on to some real work
2020-06-12T23:58:05 < englishman> dongs: lol, despite my advice, work just bought one of those gay ass reflow ovens from a cali distributor for like $1200, zero safety ratings, they were even reluctant to tell the guy what kind of AC plug it required. work bought it anyway
--- Day changed Sat Jun 13 2020
2020-06-13T00:03:27 < zyp> haha
2020-06-13T00:04:45 < Cracki> china oven with new stickers or what
2020-06-13T00:16:18 < Mangy_Dog> https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/362670523181957120/721099186262507754/unknown.png https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/362670523181957120/721099367385399336/unknown.png a dirty quick and cheerful photoscan just so i can get that profile of the mini oven so i can make a little shroud for a lcd panel im putting in... for a reflow oven
2020-06-13T00:16:21 < Mangy_Dog> as youre talking reflow :d
2020-06-13T00:26:30 < Steffanx> Did you use the right markers this time Mangy_Dog ?
2020-06-13T00:26:43 < Steffanx> :P
2020-06-13T00:30:46 < karlp> what's the next "cheap" size up from this? https://www.aliexpress.com/item/32911036490.html
2020-06-13T00:30:53 < karlp> it seems to get expensive really quickly?
2020-06-13T00:33:36 < Mangy_Dog> JUST USED A RULER
2020-06-13T00:33:40 < Mangy_Dog> oops caps
2020-06-13T00:33:54 < Mangy_Dog> kalp 2.8
2020-06-13T00:34:10 < Mangy_Dog> which just happens to be the size im using on my controller for the reflow :p
2020-06-13T00:34:42 < karlp> 2.8 are still 320x240?
2020-06-13T00:36:19 < englishman> theres a 3.5" 480x320 linked in there for $8 is that too high/
2020-06-13T00:37:22 < karlp> that's fine
2020-06-13T00:37:31 < englishman> only 25% more dollars per pixel
2020-06-13T00:37:43 < karlp> I was not figuring out what was before 800x6xx something or whatever that were starting to jump up to silly
2020-06-13T00:38:04 < karlp> linked where? on the page I linked myself?
2020-06-13T00:38:09 < englishman> yeah
2020-06-13T00:38:15 < englishman> https://www.aliexpress.com/item/4000223346554.html
2020-06-13T00:38:27 < karlp> oh yar
2020-06-13T00:38:44 < karlp> touch module without touch...
2020-06-13T00:38:48 < englishman> and a 4" linked from there
2020-06-13T00:39:11 < englishman> https://ae01.alicdn.com/kf/Hf98a8db927e64da680418aa9dab28513l.jpg
2020-06-13T00:39:16 < karlp> https://www.aliexpress.com/item/4000757761980.html looks better
2020-06-13T00:39:18 < englishman> they even show off the 3:1 contrast ratio
2020-06-13T00:39:51 < karlp> heh
2020-06-13T00:40:17 < karlp> is it sane to use this for a manufactuing test and programming rig?
2020-06-13T00:40:34 < karlp> does it really have to go all the way to "one green light, one red light" ?
2020-06-13T00:41:03 < karlp> this has gotta be better than expecting to push buttons on a webpage right?
2020-06-13T00:41:26 < englishman> now that i am working with real production, i'm afraid that even GREEN LIGHT GOOD, RED LIGHT BAD is too complicated for a testjig
2020-06-13T00:41:30 < karlp> hehe
2020-06-13T00:41:39 < englishman> that part has to be automated.
2020-06-13T00:41:58 < karlp> how do you capture things like pcb marking serials for stoiring test logs when you only have a red/green light?
2020-06-13T00:42:15 < karlp> like, I keep hearing this sort of story, but I'm not seeing concrete enough examples :|
2020-06-13T00:42:20 < englishman> "you have to use testjig #55 like it says in teh instructions" "yeah but testjig#54 fits"
2020-06-13T00:42:57 < karlp> closest I heard was, "first stage only handles good cases, everything else goes to another terminal  that might have a screen and the "advanced" operator"
2020-06-13T00:43:24 < englishman> idk about your use case but i have it where scanning a barcode starts the test
2020-06-13T00:43:33 < karlp> right, that's what I've got,
2020-06-13T00:43:43 < karlp> I don't have the scanner, but I have a text entry field for me at the moment
2020-06-13T00:44:03 < karlp> I don't have it switching the power on for it yet, but it would in reality, right now it's "turn on the power now!"
2020-06-13T00:44:18 < karlp> then runs shit, and ends with the dut blinking all its leds, and asks for "are they all blinking?" y/n
2020-06-13T00:44:37 < karlp> (yeah, I'd need to get shielded sensors for each led to really test them I guess.
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2020-06-13T00:44:57 < englishman> webcam and python
2020-06-13T00:44:59 < karlp> kinda struggling to get down to less than that.
2020-06-13T00:45:09 < englishman> and LABVIEW
2020-06-13T00:45:09 < karlp> yeah, I did think of that.
2020-06-13T00:45:47 < karlp> not sure I can justify that right now though, just having it actually program and do all teh other tests without manual steps would be big win already
2020-06-13T00:46:23 < karlp> but yeah, was wondering how to "best" get the ui moved from a web page to "something that monkeys can't fuck up by openning reddit/wechat on it insted"
2020-06-13T00:48:34 < qyx> labview, flir camera for $500
2020-06-13T00:48:39 < qyx> or that led thing
2020-06-13T00:48:45 < qyx> feasa LED analyzer
2020-06-13T00:49:46 < englishman> whats your budget and your latest reading on the give-a-shit-o-meter
2020-06-13T00:49:49 < qyx> feasa is probably more expensive than flir cam + LV license
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2020-06-13T00:51:51 < englishman> my weekend project arrived just in time https://i.imgur.com/W6gU2yD.jpg
2020-06-13T00:54:05 < qyx> are you preparing for covid19 #2 with robbing?
2020-06-13T00:55:36 < englishman> sounds illegal
2020-06-13T00:56:04 < qyx> then is your freezer empty?
2020-06-13T00:56:30 < qyx> reindeer running around
2020-06-13T00:57:39 < qyx> OT, CAN works now, I was setting the filter on FIFO0 and expecting interrupts from FIFO1
2020-06-13T00:59:05 < Steffanx> That doesnt work?
2020-06-13T01:01:26 < englishman> also illegal
2020-06-13T01:03:01 < qyx> zyp: https://www.ekf.de/m2/m01/m01.html
2020-06-13T01:03:21 < qyx> Lattice ECP5
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2020-06-13T01:29:44 < braindamage> englishman (irc chat.freenode.net): since you liked gris, you might like transistor too
2020-06-13T01:38:06 < englishman> thanks!
2020-06-13T01:38:37  * englishman furiously googles "transistor" "transistor switch"
2020-06-13T01:48:50 < mawk> what do you want to transist englishman ?
2020-06-13T01:48:58 < mawk> are you transisting enough ?
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2020-06-13T02:31:08 < Laurenceb_> https://twitter.com/ShawnaLeneeShow/status/1271235457041530880
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2020-06-13T03:19:59 < LoneElf> Man, what's up with ST's servers. Seems that whenever I want to download stuff their servers stop responding.
2020-06-13T03:31:44 < englishman> yeah their junk is hosted on a raspberry pi (1st gen) that has been in some intern's drawer since day 1.
2020-06-13T03:42:00 < jadew> has anyone come across a review of mains DC adapters?
2020-06-13T03:42:06 < jadew> the plug in type
2020-06-13T04:01:49 < Steffanx> Review?
2020-06-13T04:02:11 < jadew> yeah, like showing how they perform
2020-06-13T04:02:27 < jadew> ripple under load, spectrum output, etc
2020-06-13T04:06:21 < jadew> I guess I'll have to do it myself
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2020-06-13T05:27:51 < jadew> ffs...
2020-06-13T05:28:09 < jadew> I'm writing something in libreoffice and can't start typing something after a table
2020-06-13T05:28:36 < jadew> if I click anywhere, it puts me into the table, if I hit right when in the last cell, it takes me on the next page (there's a page break there)
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2020-06-13T06:59:07 < Laurenceb> It is true that the whole master/slave concept has already been relabeled. It is only suitable that we all use the correct terminology.
2020-06-13T06:59:07 < Laurenceb> Therefore I propose all instances of master/slave are changed to something more suitable. Here are some ideas:
2020-06-13T06:59:18 < Laurenceb> Police/Black_Guy
2020-06-13T06:59:45 < Laurenceb> Government/Ur_Money
2020-06-13T07:05:08 < englishman> Laurenceb: Chief Seattle was a slave owner
2020-06-13T07:05:11 < englishman> they will have to rename the city
2020-06-13T07:05:17 < Laurenceb> lol
2020-06-13T07:10:56 < Laurenceb> 1488 is an iconic part of RS232 history
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2020-06-13T07:23:53 < Thorn> rocketlab webcast starting https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QGObT0BlbEE
2020-06-13T07:28:18 < Thorn> official stream https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VRfm6RGVHf8
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2020-06-13T08:12:11 < Thorn> T - 30 sec
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2020-06-13T09:37:59 < jadew> I had an idea
2020-06-13T09:39:05 < jadew> we happen to be a bunch of pretty smart guys in here - what would you say about starting something together? something we can't do by ourselves
2020-06-13T09:39:25 < jadew> something big, that would otherwise be out of reach for any of us
2020-06-13T09:42:09 < jadew> if a bunch of us agree to join forces, we could brainstorm a little and then vote on a project to work on
2020-06-13T09:42:28 < jpa-> i'm in, but only with my left hand
2020-06-13T09:42:55 < jadew> well, yeah, it wouldn't be full-time obviously
2020-06-13T09:43:13 < jadew> but I think we're in the position of making anything happen really
2020-06-13T09:44:08 < jpa-> i sometimes feel i can do anything, until i actually try to do something
2020-06-13T09:44:38 < jadew> heh, yeah, me too, but it usually comes down to the fact that there's too much work and not enough time
2020-06-13T09:45:35 < jadew> if Rigol wasn't a thing, I'd suggest we make an oscilloscope
2020-06-13T09:45:49 < jadew> but I'm sure there are other things we could tackle
2020-06-13T09:46:13 < jpa-> i've considered that in the past, but the amount of work to get past "meh" is probably too big even for a small team
2020-06-13T09:47:27 < jadew> well, we can take that into account, but as a team you're much more likely to be able to finish a MVP
2020-06-13T09:47:46 < jadew> once its out the door and making money, we can hire help or keep improving it ourselves
2020-06-13T09:49:49 < jpa-> yeah, but to make money it has to be at a price that makes sense compared to features
2020-06-13T09:50:14 < jpa-> if features are dso quad level and price is small scale manufacturing level, it won't be making money
2020-06-13T09:51:29 < englishman> is the idea just to do work or is there an actual idea
2020-06-13T09:52:22 < jpa-> 1. do work 2. ??? 3. be rich
2020-06-13T09:52:27 < jadew> hehe
2020-06-13T09:52:29 < jadew> yeah
2020-06-13T09:52:32 < jadew> that's the idea
2020-06-13T09:53:07 < jadew> I guess the main thing is that we're a bunch of guys who can do a lot of cool stuff
2020-06-13T09:53:23 < jadew> there's a lot of potential here
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2020-06-13T09:54:41 < jadew> and the way in which it is different from just a bunch of friends with a dream, is that we can actually get shit done and know how to do it
2020-06-13T09:55:22 < jadew> so if we do decide that an idea is worth working on, it has very high chances of success
2020-06-13T09:58:27 < dongs> whats the current recommended make:r budget scope
2020-06-13T09:58:30 < dongs> thats haxable wiht riglol or whatever
2020-06-13T09:58:39 < jadew> dongs, not sure, might be siglent now
2020-06-13T09:58:55 < dongs> pal needs shit on a budget and looking at fucking dsonano i need to steer him away from that shit
2020-06-13T09:58:58 < jadew> although, I think the siglent is a bit pricier
2020-06-13T09:59:28 < jadew> the DS1000Z series from rigol is definitely worth the money
2020-06-13T09:59:48 < dongs> they're haxable? or wat
2020-06-13T09:59:51 < englishman> pretty sure the $300 riglol is still top of the line
2020-06-13T09:59:54 < jadew> to 100 MHz, yeah
2020-06-13T09:59:57 < dongs> englishman: link
2020-06-13T10:00:04 < englishman> sounds like work
2020-06-13T10:00:18 < dongs> https://www.rigolna.com/products/digital-oscilloscopes/1000/
2020-06-13T10:00:23 < dongs> tghis shit?
2020-06-13T10:00:24 < englishman> https://www.tequipment.net/Rigol/DS1054Z/Digital-Oscilloscopes/
2020-06-13T10:00:28 < jadew> dongs, no
2020-06-13T10:00:38 < jadew> the one englishman linked
2020-06-13T10:00:48 < dongs> ok
2020-06-13T10:00:51 < dongs> that one haxable to 100mhz?
2020-06-13T10:00:55 < jadew> yeah
2020-06-13T10:02:43 < englishman> lol isnt dso nano even older
2020-06-13T10:02:52 < dongs> nano is just pure shit
2020-06-13T10:03:45 < englishman> this seems to be a duplication of effort anyway, maybe you should get him into metalworking or watchmaking
2020-06-13T10:04:22 < englishman> you know, complementary skills
2020-06-13T10:05:16 < dongs> where's riglol link
2020-06-13T10:05:20 < dongs> or whatever
2020-06-13T10:05:22 < dongs> is that the .ca site?
2020-06-13T10:05:33 < englishman> yes
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2020-06-13T10:06:16 < englishman> ^emeb ragequit after learning both new consoles are amd
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2020-06-13T10:27:06 < zyp> qyx, yeah, I've seen that
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2020-06-13T10:29:17 < antto> https://i.imgur.com/sdYADhC.png
2020-06-13T10:30:53 < PaulFertser> antto: don't you want to integrate an optional "resistor hack"?
2020-06-13T10:31:04 < antto> a wat
2020-06-13T10:31:22 < PaulFertser> antto: so that you could use Olimex/flyswatter/whatever ft2232h debug adapter for SWD.
2020-06-13T10:31:40 < antto> i don't.. know
2020-06-13T10:32:29 < antto> i'm making this mainly so that i can plug this zl33prg dap thing into it and get the stupid STDC14 connector out of it
2020-06-13T10:32:44 < antto> then additionally i've put normal SWD too
2020-06-13T10:33:31 < PaulFertser> antto: http://openocd.zylin.com/gitweb?p=openocd.git;a=blob;f=tcl/interface/ftdi/swd-resistor-hack.cfg;h=04f3a73975782174f0e218c3ab528809348b0885;hb=HEAD
2020-06-13T10:34:18 < zyp> PaulFertser, presumably any resistor hacks should exist upstream of this
2020-06-13T10:34:57 < PaulFertser> zyp: please clarify more
2020-06-13T10:35:26 < antto> PaulFertser tbh, i don't understand that sh*t at all, i websearched for "arm jtag20 to swd10" and copied the schematic from some random picture
2020-06-13T10:35:30 < zyp> this is an adapter from arm-20 to stdc-14 and arm-10 or whatever
2020-06-13T10:36:37 < antto> doing it only as sorta "void filling" cuz i need to order one pcb design from allpcb, so i'm gonna make a few more quick designs like this adapter, to justify the shipping price
2020-06-13T10:36:43 < PaulFertser> zyp: but while at it why not add another feature to it?
2020-06-13T10:37:05 < zyp> probably because it'd be irrelevant for anything antto want to do? :p
2020-06-13T10:37:43 < antto> i need STDC14 only because i made the great decision to put STDC14 on my same54 board
2020-06-13T10:38:21 < zyp> antto, looks reasonably good, but I'd probably try to reduce the impact of the ground cuts on the bottom
2020-06-13T10:38:59 < zyp> not that it really matters
2020-06-13T10:39:34 < antto> impact of the wat?!
2020-06-13T10:40:07 < zyp> just saying I'd space out the five signal traces on the bottom so the ground pour would fit in between
2020-06-13T10:40:13 < PaulFertser> Unrelated question: why do I often see consumer devices with GND pads without thermal barriers?
2020-06-13T10:40:18 < antto> oh
2020-06-13T10:42:14 < zyp> PaulFertser, smt pads? probably because it doesn't matter much when they are reflowed
2020-06-13T10:42:23 < PaulFertser> zyp: th too
2020-06-13T10:42:31 < zyp> that's just shitty design
2020-06-13T10:43:11 < zyp> then again, if they work, they are managing to solder it properly, so it still doesn't matter
2020-06-13T10:44:28 < PaulFertser> Some random IP cam https://paulfertser.info/th-gnd.jpg
2020-06-13T10:44:41 < PaulFertser> With unpopulated UART header 
2020-06-13T10:45:08 < zyp> you might want to fix your tls cert
2020-06-13T10:45:18 < PaulFertser> zyp: oh it's CAcert...
2020-06-13T10:45:22 < PaulFertser> Not sure how to fix that
2020-06-13T10:45:52 < zyp> switch to lets encrypt?
2020-06-13T10:46:00 < PaulFertser> The design must be professional enough, else they wouldn't be able to have that BGA and other professional components working.
2020-06-13T10:46:16 < PaulFertser> I have reasons to not like LE.
2020-06-13T10:46:30 < PaulFertser> Though I admit they're making the web much better.
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2020-06-13T10:47:54 < zyp> curious what those reasons are
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2020-06-13T10:52:50 < PaulFertser> Two main things I do not like about LE: 1. Their threat model is kinda very limited, and they're not trying to be any better/saner than commercial CAs; they're not even trying to offer anything that would be expanding on the ideas of Web of trust and other means of independent validation; 2. They're not even trying to provide certificates for anything else but websites, e.g. you can't get a
2020-06-13T10:52:56 < PaulFertser> client TLS cert from them.
2020-06-13T10:53:28 < zyp> PaulFertser, heh, I see a grand total of two through-hole footprints in that photo; one is not assembled and the other is not connected to ground
2020-06-13T10:53:50 < zyp> so maybe they simply didn't bother thinking much about pth design rules?
2020-06-13T10:54:44 < PaulFertser> zyp: might be that, but isn't thermal barriers default on professional layouting software?
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2020-06-13T10:55:41 < PaulFertser> Also, I see similar headers in SOHO wifi ap+routers, and those usually have plenty of TH for wired Ethernet, power, USB.
2020-06-13T10:55:54 < zyp> it's probably not default to have separate rules for smt and pth, and I guess they wanted to not have thermals on smt
2020-06-13T10:56:05 < PaulFertser> And they also do length matching for DRAM etc, so it's not some make:r job.
2020-06-13T10:56:21 < zyp> well, idk
2020-06-13T10:57:15 < PaulFertser> I just find it odd, but not being familiar with layouting and pro EE I might be missing something obvious.
2020-06-13T10:57:31 < zyp> thermals are only beneficial from a manufacturability perspective, and so if they are managing to manufacture it without, they've got their manufacturability down either way
2020-06-13T10:58:15 < zyp> hmm
2020-06-13T10:58:49 < zyp> maybe it even matters more for repairability, wave soldering probably preheats the boards enough that it doesn't matter much for manufacturability
2020-06-13T10:59:13 < zyp> and I bet that stuff is not designed for repairability
2020-06-13T11:00:49 < PaulFertser> Unpopulated UART headers are designed to be populated later manually.
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2020-06-13T11:00:55 < zyp> on LE; so your argument is that they're not really usable for anything but web sites, and therefore you don't wanna use them for the one thing they're good at?
2020-06-13T11:01:27 < zyp> are they?
2020-06-13T11:02:11 < PaulFertser> zyp: haha, yes. And I do not even need any other features. But for me "the way" is more important than the end result, and I liked CAcert's ideas...
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2020-06-13T11:02:40 < zyp> I'd assume most unpopulated uart header footprints are leftovers from prototypes that they don't bother remove in production
2020-06-13T11:03:47 < PaulFertser> That would mean they wave solder prototypes and not hand-solder. OK, plausible, I really do not know how they usually prototype in China.
2020-06-13T11:03:58 < PaulFertser> But that would explain it.
2020-06-13T11:05:20 < PaulFertser> Instead of hand-soldering with my brand-new TS100 I'm trying to understand why firmware doesn't work properly with -O3 while -Os is not problematic.
2020-06-13T11:06:01 < zyp> somebody relies on undefined behavior somewhere
2020-06-13T11:06:12 < zyp> with an assumption that olds for -Os but not for -O3
2020-06-13T11:06:15 < zyp> holds
2020-06-13T11:06:55 < PaulFertser> It might also be a GCC bug ;)
2020-06-13T11:08:13 < PaulFertser> I have to admit it's kinda neat the new PCB version has SWD available on USB pins without any mods or tricks.
2020-06-13T11:08:17 < zyp> true, I've actually encountered that once
2020-06-13T11:09:44 < zyp> I remember bisecting optimization steps on some old version of avr32-gcc to find out what was breaking some code
2020-06-13T11:10:18 < PaulFertser> Most often when not people complaining about compiler bugs are wrong, but it doesn't mean the real bugs never happen, heh. I've probably seen just one or two.
2020-06-13T11:10:27 < zyp> yes, exactly
2020-06-13T11:11:00 < srk> PaulFertser: Ralim/ts100?
2020-06-13T11:11:07 < PaulFertser> srk: sure
2020-06-13T11:11:12 < srk> many bugz
2020-06-13T11:11:21 < PaulFertser> srk: any worthy replacement?
2020-06-13T11:11:24 < srk> want to roll one ;)
2020-06-13T11:11:31 < srk> don't know of any
2020-06-13T11:11:33 < PaulFertser> srk: do you not recommend to waste time on Ralim?
2020-06-13T11:12:01 < srk> works for me
2020-06-13T11:12:08 < srk> except for weird oled orientation
2020-06-13T11:12:09 < PaulFertser> I think since I'm wasting my life anyway why not waste on stm32-related free software.
2020-06-13T11:12:17 < PaulFertser> srk: are you left-handed?
2020-06-13T11:12:31 < srk> no, right but it flips it in weird ways :)
2020-06-13T11:12:52 < srk> also seen it froze few times but that's probably my bad lipo cable
2020-06-13T11:13:03 < PaulFertser> srk: do you know what PCB rev is yours? Can you try attaching SWD to USB pins without disassembly?
2020-06-13T11:13:30 < PaulFertser> srk: do you use the vendor's shit-loader?
2020-06-13T11:13:30 < srk> hmm, don't remember exactly but I can dissasemble and look
2020-06-13T11:13:35 < srk> yes
2020-06-13T11:13:50 < PaulFertser> srk: no need to disassemble if you can just try SWD externally
2020-06-13T11:14:00 < srk> just needs a custom cable?
2020-06-13T11:14:28 < srk> hardware is pretty neat, had to dissasemble it to take a look when I saw few pics on the net
2020-06-13T11:14:29 < PaulFertser> srk: I am using USB-A socket desoldered from something, so no custom cable even. 
2020-06-13T11:14:38 < srk> I see
2020-06-13T11:15:03 < PaulFertser> Jumper wires hold onto TH pins good enough.
2020-06-13T11:15:09 < srk> here's schematics and some pics but fw is just hello world :) https://github.com/wose/ts100
2020-06-13T11:16:10 < PaulFertser> srk: https://github.com/Ralim/ts100/pull/650/commits/d2b05570fcbc6642245be6063cbe8cb4463cb187
2020-06-13T11:16:29 < srk> ah, I see
2020-06-13T11:16:56 < srk> nice
2020-06-13T11:17:26 < PaulFertser> Should probably help folks willing to experiment. Also, easy way to install proper bootloader instead of the shit.
2020-06-13T11:17:39 < PaulFertser> srk: btw, I tested 128k flash on mine, works as expected.
2020-06-13T11:19:12 < srk> ++
2020-06-13T11:19:24 < srk> hope my revision has that
2020-06-13T11:20:03 < srk> will take a look, good way to identify v2.51A?
2020-06-13T11:20:24 < srk> I should have noted the version somewhere when I was playing with it..
2020-06-13T11:20:43 < PaulFertser> srk: probably by the shit-bootloader version but I destroyed mine so can't tell. Probably 3.54...
2020-06-13T11:20:59 < srk> ok
2020-06-13T11:21:38 < srk> 'The commit message make sense' xD
2020-06-13T11:23:00 < srk> PaulFertser: how much power does your use?
2020-06-13T11:23:08 < antto> https://i.imgur.com/SFHvvlc.png
2020-06-13T11:23:10 < srk> I think the reading on mine is way off
2020-06-13T11:23:19 < PaulFertser> srk: can't tell, I have no lab PSU
2020-06-13T11:23:22 < srk> antto: neat
2020-06-13T11:23:29 < srk> PaulFertser: same, on display I mean
2020-06-13T11:24:00 < PaulFertser> srk: I've seen about 30-40 W but that's on 19.3 V laptop PSU.
2020-06-13T11:24:57 < PaulFertser> I should try 24 V , I have one lying around, just didn't test yet.
2020-06-13T11:26:06 < srk> heh, the reading on mine says 1.1W :D
2020-06-13T11:26:26 < srk> with 4S 100C lipo.. sure
2020-06-13T11:26:55 < PaulFertser> srk: while in active heating up stage?
2020-06-13T11:27:00 < srk> yes :)
2020-06-13T11:27:16 < PaulFertser> srk: with accurate voltage reading?
2020-06-13T11:27:24 < srk> yup, that's correct
2020-06-13T11:27:30 < srk> adjusted with meter
2020-06-13T11:27:35 < srk> weird
2020-06-13T11:29:26 < srk> V 14.5
2020-06-13T11:33:08 < PaulFertser> srk: availableW10() shows W calculations depend only on current voltage and PWM, tip resistance is constant. 
2020-06-13T11:34:15 < srk> yup, I was researching that before which is why it's so weird. probably some bad cast or something :D
2020-06-13T11:34:55 < PaulFertser> SWD should help ;)
2020-06-13T11:35:25 < PaulFertser> srk: oh, but Ralim disables SWD by default, do you want an (obvious) patch for that?
2020-06-13T11:35:38 < PaulFertser> srk: SWD is working in the bootloader though
2020-06-13T11:41:29 < srk> PaulFertser: sure, will take a look
2020-06-13T11:42:05 < srk> also idle timeout is not working, it just stays on 20s and only increments by 1 if I press the turbo button :D
2020-06-13T11:42:30 < PaulFertser> srk: https://paste.debian.net/1151865/
2020-06-13T11:42:31 < srk> bit too many bugs for relatively simple pid controller 
2020-06-13T11:42:41 < srk> thanks
2020-06-13T11:42:48 < PaulFertser> srk: huh, I tried using the latest released version and it all worked fine
2020-06-13T11:43:15 < srk> maybe just hit the wrong version, it is few months old
2020-06-13T11:43:27 < PaulFertser> Didn't try soldering much I have to admit. And I had to disassemble and solder to SWD to repair bootloader before the first time I enabled the heater
2020-06-13T11:44:02 < srk> hehe, I like soldering with it, pretty good for SMD. maybe the best iron I've used so far
2020-06-13T11:44:03 < PaulFertser> (and after "debugging" the bootloader for a bit I finally saw SWD shorted to USB) 
2020-06-13T11:44:22 < srk> *SMT
2020-06-13T11:44:29 < PaulFertser> srk: what tip?
2020-06-13T11:44:52 < srk> TS-B2 NS04, default one it came with
2020-06-13T11:45:39 < PaulFertser> Mine came with TS-I and I additionally bought TS-BC2 following advice from the channel regulars.
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2020-06-13T11:47:05 < srk> mm, looks good, will buy that one too
2020-06-13T11:47:49 < PaulFertser> srk: dapboot patch https://paste.debian.net/1151866/ (allow full flash for bootloader)
2020-06-13T11:48:18 < srk> that forcing 128k?
2020-06-13T11:48:22 < PaulFertser> y
2020-06-13T11:48:47 < srk> cool
2020-06-13T11:49:01 < antto> PaulFertser what do i gain with the resistors you mentioned?
2020-06-13T11:49:38 < PaulFertser> antto: ability to use ft2232h-based JTAG debug probes for SWD. Probably irrelevant for your purposes since you have none of those.
2020-06-13T11:50:02 < antto> ahumz
2020-06-13T11:50:16 < srk> PaulFertser: oO https://github.com/Jan--Henrik/Otter-Iron/
2020-06-13T11:50:38 < srk> nad
2020-06-13T11:50:39 < srk> mad
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2020-06-13T11:51:44 < srk> ##stm32f072
2020-06-13T11:52:34 < PaulFertser> rad mod
2020-06-13T11:52:50 < srk> ok, that's a better target for fw .. :D
2020-06-13T11:53:05 < srk> not that I care about specific stm32xyz now
2020-06-13T11:54:28 < rajkosto> "Designed by an Otter chirps :3" why
2020-06-13T11:54:29 < srk> STUSB4500QTR
2020-06-13T11:54:35 < Cracki> furries
2020-06-13T11:55:19 < srk> no accelerometer but that's easy to add 
2020-06-13T12:01:38 < srk> 100% chance of rain at 4pm, nice
2020-06-13T12:03:27 < PaulFertser> If you're not on two wheels shouldn't be problematic.
2020-06-13T12:04:16 < srk> another forecast shows only 25% .. right :D
2020-06-13T12:04:26 < srk> not going anywhere, just getting a bit hot here
2020-06-13T12:05:32 < srk> cool how he packed everything on single pcb. tho the stack on ts100 is neat 
2020-06-13T12:05:54 < srk> hah lol, that's separate for cost reasons I guess
2020-06-13T12:06:09 < srk> so they can switch mcus/accelerometers 
2020-06-13T12:08:50 < PaulFertser> srk: btw, what temperature do you set? 250 seems to be enough for Pb solder.
2020-06-13T12:09:54 < srk> 360 :)
2020-06-13T12:10:24 < srk> was using both leaded and leadfree 
2020-06-13T12:11:04 < PaulFertser> I would say something is wrong there.
2020-06-13T12:11:44 < srk> definitely, will debug
2020-06-13T12:12:25 < PaulFertser> btw, freertos awareness works here
2020-06-13T12:12:56 < Thorn> live https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8riKQXChPGg
2020-06-13T12:15:33 < srk> docker-compose run --rm builder /bin/bash /build/ci/buildAll.sh
2020-06-13T12:15:36 < srk>  /o\
2020-06-13T12:17:10 < srk> good, running make in workspace/TS100 almost works :D
2020-06-13T12:17:25 < srk> ./Core/Inc/FreeRTOSHooks.h:13:10: fatal error: unit.h: No such file or directory
2020-06-13T12:18:24 < Cracki> t-3 min spacex starlink: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8riKQXChPGg
2020-06-13T12:18:28 < PaulFertser> srk: call translation generator
2020-06-13T12:18:40 < srk> ahaa
2020-06-13T12:18:51 < PaulFertser> srk:  python3 ../../Translation\ Editor/make_translation.py ../../Translation\ Editor/
2020-06-13T12:19:01 < srk> ty!
2020-06-13T12:19:18 < srk> cool, got elf
2020-06-13T12:19:39 < PaulFertser> The script is polluted by \r btw
2020-06-13T12:20:08 < srk> I can't even run something that starts with !/bin/bash :)
2020-06-13T12:20:49 < srk> go internetz!
2020-06-13T12:23:31 < Cracki> ... they call it Main engine cutoff (MECO) because First engine cutoff would be FECO and that's just shit
2020-06-13T12:23:46 < srk> xDD
2020-06-13T12:25:00 < srk> some realengineer youtube vid was explaining that these rockets are just pressure vessels which could collapse if not pressurized, mind boggling
2020-06-13T12:27:56 < Cracki> light tin cans :D
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2020-06-13T13:06:15 < PaulFertser> Would be funny if the bug is in HAL I2C code
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2020-06-13T13:13:46 < srk> lol, only 1 of 3 usb cables working, wtf :D
2020-06-13T13:20:25 < srk> and getting TS100.ERR ..
2020-06-13T13:21:48 < PaulFertser> srk: that's why I changed the bootloader...
2020-06-13T13:22:18 < PaulFertser> srk: mount -o iocharset=utf8 /dev/sda /mnt/ && cp TS100_EN.hex /mnt/ && umount /mnt && sleep 5 && mount -o ioch
2020-06-13T13:22:22 < PaulFertser> arset=utf8 /dev/sda /mnt/ && ls /mnt && cp TS100_EN.hex /mnt/ && umount /mnt && sleep 5 && mount -o iocharset=utf8 /dev/sda /m
2020-06-13T13:22:25 < PaulFertser> nt/ && ls /mnt && umount /mnt
2020-06-13T13:22:27 < PaulFertser> Worked for me
2020-06-13T13:23:44 < srk> ficd!
2020-06-13T13:23:46 < srk> xd
2020-06-13T13:24:00 < srk> 20.8W
2020-06-13T13:24:06 < srk> timeout working
2020-06-13T13:24:07 < srk> nice
2020-06-13T13:24:39 < PaulFertser> srk: what bootloader version was shown on OLED?
2020-06-13T13:25:44 < srk> 3.45
2020-06-13T13:26:22 < PaulFertser> srk: probably same as mine then.
2020-06-13T13:31:07 < srk> looking good now, just needs readjusting voltage sensing, thanks PaulFertser 
2020-06-13T13:31:59 < PaulFertser> srk: you are yet to try SWD over USB :)
2020-06-13T13:32:27 < srk> sounds fun, will try for sure :D
2020-06-13T13:32:33 < PaulFertser> -O2 even with -flto is not problematic, but -O3 even without -flto produced occassional display glitches.
2020-06-13T13:34:17 < srk> not a bad idea this SWD over USB trick
2020-06-13T13:34:30 < srk> one less connector to worry about
2020-06-13T13:34:53 < srk> possible with type C as well?
2020-06-13T13:36:25 < PaulFertser> srk: ts80 has swd on QC pins
2020-06-13T13:37:05 < srk> lol
2020-06-13T13:37:26 < srk> PaulFertser: like even TS100 can do QC?
2020-06-13T13:38:03 < PaulFertser> srk: no, TS100 has regular micro-USB connector
2020-06-13T13:38:52 < srk> ah, wasn't sure reading the info about that
2020-06-13T13:39:01 < Cracki> how do they do swd over usb, a second chip doing stlink duty or sth, or all in one chip?
2020-06-13T13:39:33 < Cracki> or do you mean dfu rom bl
2020-06-13T13:39:52 < srk> no no, swd, Paul says its shorted to USB pins
2020-06-13T13:39:55 < PaulFertser> :D
2020-06-13T13:40:01 < Cracki> oh
2020-06-13T13:40:10 < Cracki> so breakout to get at the pins?
2020-06-13T13:40:10 < PaulFertser> Over USB connector, not signalling
2020-06-13T13:40:17 < Cracki> funky
2020-06-13T13:40:20 < Mangy_Dog> grumbles, my thermal coupler and ssr from china sitll has not turned up :/ its been about 4 weeks now ffs
2020-06-13T13:40:29 < PaulFertser> Cracki: I just use a TH USB-A socket I salvaged from somewhere
2020-06-13T13:40:31 < Cracki> 4 weeks is standard?
2020-06-13T13:40:53 < Cracki> got a few usb a sockets and jacks for such fuckery too
2020-06-13T13:40:55 < Mangy_Dog> actually 2 is
2020-06-13T13:41:06 < Cracki> moneyed brits
2020-06-13T13:41:10 < Mangy_Dog> i normally get my stuff with 2 to 3 weeks
2020-06-13T13:41:16 < Mangy_Dog> moneied brits? :p
2020-06-13T13:41:33 < Mangy_Dog> im poor which is why i order my cheap jump from china, rather than pay a premium for buying that same cheap junk locally
2020-06-13T13:41:36 < Cracki> shitting to germoney takes 2 weeks *sometimes*, but the cheapest shipping is 4-6 weeks and right now double that
2020-06-13T13:42:11 < Mangy_Dog> it really winds me up
2020-06-13T13:42:23 < Cracki> I was a little surprised that jlc's shipping is 8 bucks which is double the boards' value. let's see how fast that is arriving here. they promised single digit day count
2020-06-13T13:42:52 < Mangy_Dog> the thermal coupler i brought cost £1.50? £2.50? the exsact same one if i was to buy off ebay or amazon and still have to wait till mid next week to get... would cost 10 quid or more
2020-06-13T13:43:08 < Mangy_Dog> thats just it
2020-06-13T13:43:19 < Mangy_Dog> i ordered these pats before i ordered my tricorder pcb
2020-06-13T13:43:25 < Mangy_Dog> the pcb turned up a few days ago
2020-06-13T13:43:32 < Mangy_Dog>  and i ened my oven working so i can make the pcb :/
2020-06-13T13:43:34 < zyp> Cracki, I'd be happy if it were $8, seems they start at $20 to me
2020-06-13T13:43:53 < Cracki> I picked the cheapest method. they had something for 20 too
2020-06-13T13:44:07 < zyp> dhl for $20 is the cheapest method available to me
2020-06-13T13:44:52 < Cracki> I'm curious to see if the "customs handled" actually works...
2020-06-13T13:45:06 < Cracki> and whether the mailman will just drop this in my box or ring me out for a signature
2020-06-13T13:45:17 < zyp> customs handled?
2020-06-13T13:45:27 < zyp> as in incoterms ddp?
2020-06-13T13:45:37 < Cracki> those words mean nothing to me
2020-06-13T13:45:41 < zyp> google it
2020-06-13T13:45:49 < Cracki> they promise that all the import fuckery would be takenc are of
2020-06-13T13:45:56 < Cracki> I'm a consumer, not a company
2020-06-13T13:46:07 < zyp> doesn't matter
2020-06-13T13:46:34 < Cracki> https://www.incotermsexplained.com/the-incoterms-rules/the-eleven-rules-in-brief/delivered-duty-paid/
2020-06-13T13:46:41 < Cracki> never before heard of "incoterms"
2020-06-13T13:48:41 < zyp> it's the formal way of specifying shit like that
2020-06-13T13:48:56 < Cracki> ic. I guess that's it then, ddp.
2020-06-13T13:49:22 < zyp> sounds good
2020-06-13T13:49:59 < Cracki> I heard them working that problem some months ago. probably in response to user surveys. enough people are fed up with UPS/DHL/... robbing them
2020-06-13T13:50:30 < PaulFertser> Hah, there's no -O3 bug apparently, it's just that the settings were overwriting some parts of code/font thanks to hardcoded flash page address assuming 64k chips.
2020-06-13T13:50:33 < Cracki> those companies should be shot. the lack of transparency is worse than hitler
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2020-06-13T13:51:49 < qyx> n/win 6
2020-06-13T13:53:35 < zyp> wrapping my head around userland pcie access
2020-06-13T13:54:19 < zyp> after some time spent figuring out what's what, I can now mmap() fpga memory space and access it directly :)
2020-06-13T13:56:14 < zyp> apparently there's mechanisms to wait for interrupts as well, they get mapped into a file descriptor that you can select() or do a blocking read() on
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2020-06-13T14:18:06 < antto> https://i.imgur.com/DO5UnyX.png
2020-06-13T14:18:09 < antto> moar ghetto
2020-06-13T14:19:07 < zyp> for there to be a point of the ground in between the signals, it need to be connected at both sides
2020-06-13T14:19:22 < zyp> i.e. you should stagger the left side vias or something
2020-06-13T14:22:44 < antto> well, i don't understand wut'cha saying, but this is just copper fill
2020-06-13T14:27:13 < zyp> doesn't matter anyway, it's not like you're trying to do controlled impedance transmission lines
2020-06-13T14:28:07 < strata> antto, lelz TAB UP!
2020-06-13T14:28:09 < zyp> fun, the whole system hangs if I try doing an unaligned access to the pcie device
2020-06-13T14:30:20 < antto> strata cuz IDC connectors at mau5r aren't very cheap
2020-06-13T14:30:29 < strata> yea i know. i made one of those things too
2020-06-13T14:34:07 < strata> not exactly the same thing but https://i.imgur.com/ODCs29S.png
2020-06-13T14:41:44 < Cracki> got an .edu email to verify that you're a student?
2020-06-13T14:42:20 < Cracki> what do they need from people buying the edu variant
2020-06-13T14:42:45 < strata> nothing
2020-06-13T14:42:47 < strata> you just buy it
2020-06-13T14:42:51 < Cracki> lol ok
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2020-06-13T15:01:45 < Steffanx> i just buy a clone on the ali so the tools dont want me to accept the "for evaluation purposes only" all the time
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2020-06-13T15:36:01 < jadew> is it just me or does this seem rendered? https://cojotech.com/media/images/etp-100%20-%20oblique%20-%20front.jpg
2020-06-13T15:36:55 < zyp> kinda
2020-06-13T15:36:59 < jadew> crap...
2020-06-13T15:37:36 < Cracki> nah, not rendered
2020-06-13T15:37:43 < Cracki> I see the face plates are stamped
2020-06-13T15:38:04 < zyp> that could just be a texture :)
2020-06-13T15:38:27 < jadew> yeah, it's too neat
2020-06-13T15:38:32 < zyp> the even lighting and lack of shadows makes it look kinda too perfect
2020-06-13T15:38:34 < Cracki> this is a texture of a photo, laid on top of two triangles
2020-06-13T15:39:09 < jadew> it's because of the label
2020-06-13T15:39:16 < jadew> it's matte
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2020-06-13T15:39:27 < Cracki> left edge of label, not straight enough
2020-06-13T15:40:16 < jadew> Cracki, yeah, but it's too difficult to figure out
2020-06-13T15:40:43 < jadew> the front one isn't much better: https://cojotech.com/media/images/etp-100.jpg
2020-06-13T15:40:46 < Cracki> if someone claimed that this was rendered, I'd say show me the wireframe
2020-06-13T15:40:57 < Cracki> you want it to look less perfect?
2020-06-13T15:41:06 < Cracki> throw some smudge textures on it
2020-06-13T15:41:12 < jadew> lol
2020-06-13T15:41:35 < Cracki> some people add a coffee stain picture to their dissertation's covers
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2020-06-13T15:43:45 < jadew> I guess I'll have to make another photo with it connected to a counter or something
2020-06-13T15:44:28 < Cracki> .oO( action shot on a beach with some dude grinning and thumbs-upping )
2020-06-13T15:44:43 < jadew> haha
2020-06-13T15:45:47 < Cracki> I see the value in a hookup illustration for the very careful customers
2020-06-13T15:47:40 < jadew> I'll make a video
2020-06-13T15:57:08 < Steffanx> Can your autism deal with the label not being aligned perfectly jadew?
2020-06-13T15:57:23 < Steffanx> Or isnt it square?
2020-06-13T15:57:43 < jadew> Steffanx, it isn't square, and it's like... the 7th or 8th label
2020-06-13T15:57:55 < Steffanx> :P
2020-06-13T15:58:00 < jadew> :)
2020-06-13T15:58:42 < Steffanx> Such short serial number
2020-06-13T15:59:03 < jadew> that's the one for internal revisions
2020-06-13T15:59:19 < jadew> regular ones have 2 letters and a number
2020-06-13T16:02:58 < jadew> well, I guess this one's done, now I can go back to worrying about other stuff
2020-06-13T16:04:41 < qyx> jadew: video = minutes lost
2020-06-13T16:05:23 < jadew> qyx, some people enjoy watching those
2020-06-13T16:05:45 < jadew> mainly because they want to observe a specific thing you maybe forgot to mention
2020-06-13T16:05:52 < jadew> or it's not particularly clear in the documentation
2020-06-13T16:12:53 < jadew> has anyone gotten small enclosures professionally machined before?
2020-06-13T16:13:57 < jadew> I think I'm getting ripped off
2020-06-13T16:15:18 < jadew> that screwup I showed a couple of days ago, costed me ~100 EUR in the enclosure alone
2020-06-13T16:16:16 < jadew> I ordered more this time, and it's still kinda expensive ~70 EUR/enclosure
2020-06-13T16:18:23 < jadew> thing is, I saw chinese products in enclosures of similar complexity (less and material tho), that costed less than $15
2020-06-13T16:18:39 < jadew> *and different material
2020-06-13T16:22:26 < Cracki> extruded aluminium is cheap
2020-06-13T16:22:33 < Cracki> they cut it to length, screw face plates on, done
2020-06-13T16:22:47 < Cracki> not sure what custom things you have there
2020-06-13T16:22:51 < jadew> yeah, but it's not good enough for what I'm doing
2020-06-13T16:23:12 < jadew> I'm talking about this one: http://5.12.180.177/stuff/other_enclosure.jpg
2020-06-13T16:23:53 < jadew> I redesigned it
2020-06-13T16:24:12 < Cracki> set up time cost you. individual pieces not so much
2020-06-13T16:24:30 < jadew> that's what I thought
2020-06-13T16:25:12 < jadew> but on a run of 20 pieces, I'm not even getting 50% off
2020-06-13T16:25:38 < Cracki> pcb fabs have automated all the setup for their panelization and whatnot. pcb Assembly is getting there but pnps take setup time too
2020-06-13T16:26:15 < Cracki> what's that, four holes in the corners, the big pocket in the middle, holes in at least three sides
2020-06-13T16:26:52 < jadew> the new one has 24 more holes :P
2020-06-13T16:27:39 < Cracki> lots of steps. the biggest problem is maybe if they have no "first world" machines with 4/5 axes, and someone has to touch that piece every time a different side is up
2020-06-13T16:27:43 < jadew> but still, I expect a machine is doing the drilling
2020-06-13T16:28:14 < jadew> Cracki, yeah, I'm pretty sure they're well equipped
2020-06-13T16:28:15 < Cracki> so you pay for one meatbag to stand guard all the time, instead of meatbag just swapping stock for finished part a few times
2020-06-13T16:28:59 < Cracki> you having that done in china or locally? I'd expect china to be cheaper than that
2020-06-13T16:29:01 < jadew> https://www.prelucrare-cnc.ro/
2020-06-13T16:29:11 < jadew> locally, that's the shop
2020-06-13T16:29:30 < Cracki> maybe they think you're making big bucks from this
2020-06-13T16:29:42 < Cracki> or you have money to burn for prototypes
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2020-06-13T16:30:45 < jadew> don't know what's their reasoning... but they're wrong if that's what they're thinking :)
2020-06-13T16:31:22 < jadew> when I was looking for someone to produce a shield for me, I asked around in china, and their prices were similar, if not higher
2020-06-13T16:31:47 < Cracki> cnc these days is for complex shapes. they probably charge you the same no matter if it's a fractal shape or a dumb cube
2020-06-13T16:33:19 < Cracki> one could sic an apprentice on your enclosures, with a hand operated mill with at most a digital readout
2020-06-13T16:33:56 < Cracki> their website looks like they're not cruddy enough to be cheap
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2020-06-13T16:35:42 < jadew> this is why I want either a mill or a CNC
2020-06-13T16:36:13 < jadew> every chunk of metal I imagine makes me ~100 EUR poorer
2020-06-13T16:36:33 < Cracki> there must be normal metal workshops near you, not these fancy buggers
2020-06-13T16:36:54 < Cracki> got a prison nearby? our prisons have workshops, you can commission stuff for cheap
2020-06-13T16:37:03 < Cracki> they use that for vocational training while they're in there
2020-06-13T16:37:27 < jadew> slave labor? :)
2020-06-13T16:37:42 < Cracki> nah, they are paid in buttsecks and cigarettes
2020-06-13T16:38:04 < jadew> never heard of our prisoners doing that
2020-06-13T16:39:02 < jadew> I had a friend who was in prison for 10 years
2020-06-13T16:39:20 < jadew> he read and worked out
2020-06-13T16:39:53 < Cracki> I was about to say, reading books isn't a marketable skill. having muscles may be... but that can also lead to trouble
2020-06-13T16:40:27 < jadew> yeah, he was a bouncer at a bar near my building
2020-06-13T16:40:41 < jadew> was my neighbour too, that's how we met
2020-06-13T16:43:57 < Cracki> saw those? http://www.allio-romania.com/services/machining-sheet-metal-work/
2020-06-13T16:44:30 < jadew> I haven't
2020-06-13T16:44:54 < jadew> I'll give them a call
2020-06-13T16:45:04 < Cracki> the pics on their site show stuff towards the heavy side. looks like they can weld, so that's a good sign
2020-06-13T16:45:15 < jadew> there were a couple of other shops I contacted, but they were all busy and didn't want my stuff
2020-06-13T16:45:23 < Cracki> meh that's discouraging
2020-06-13T16:46:13 < Cracki> lol the pictures on the prelucrare site have german thread tables for backgrounds
2020-06-13T16:47:21 < jadew> what's that?
2020-06-13T16:47:26 < Cracki> I guess the *cheap* shops you won't find online because they're too cheap to have their own site
2020-06-13T16:47:40 < Cracki> tables of measurements for metric threads, in german language
2020-06-13T16:48:06 < jadew> yeah, I did find one, but their tools were crap
2020-06-13T16:48:12 < Cracki> hrhr
2020-06-13T16:48:15 < jadew> they wouldn't have been able to meet my tolerances
2020-06-13T16:48:52 < Cracki> what kinda tolerances? you soldered that block of brass(?) shut with a soldering iron
2020-06-13T16:49:13 < Cracki> oh hm water tight, right
2020-06-13T16:50:02 < jadew> well, this one didn't have tight tolerances, but I made another one that was supposed to be thermally closed
2020-06-13T16:50:16 < Cracki> high tech requirements :D
2020-06-13T16:50:40 < jadew> sort of
2020-06-13T16:50:48 < jadew> for this one I used solder paste on the inside
2020-06-13T16:51:00 < jadew> and put it in the oven
2020-06-13T16:51:37 < jadew> unfortunately that didn't work well, had some unintended side effects, and it also raised issues regarding the inspection of the soldering job
2020-06-13T16:51:41 < Cracki> heh
2020-06-13T16:51:52 < Cracki> inb4 xray inspection
2020-06-13T16:52:17 < jadew> well, with that I wouldn't be able to tell if it reflowed or not
2020-06-13T16:53:47 < jadew> the only solution would have been a fiberscope, through the 2.7mm hole of an M3 screw
2020-06-13T16:54:09 < Cracki> this says you can https://image.slidesharecdn.com/x-rayinspectioninpcbassemblypcba-191030062208/95/x-ray-inspection-in-pcb-assembly-pcba-6-638.jpg?cb=1572416594
2020-06-13T16:54:15 < jadew> but all the fiberscopes that fit there and are flexible are also very expensive
2020-06-13T16:54:40 < Mangy_Dog> im having a really fucking super weird bug in my reflow oven controller... Something that makes no sense whatsoever.  And im kinda struggling how to descibe whats going on, as the function thats causing the bug. Isnt even being triggered at this stage or has anything to do with the program yet, its a unconnected part.
2020-06-13T16:54:41 < Cracki> I'm wondering if all this trouble is worth it
2020-06-13T16:54:57 < jadew> Cracki, that's exactly what I'm also wondering
2020-06-13T16:54:58 < Cracki> trace everything
2020-06-13T16:55:07 < Mangy_Dog> and its only calling the function thats triggering the bug to happen
2020-06-13T16:55:47 < Mangy_Dog> but if i place the functions code into the other function that calls it (really simple code just 4 lines long) it makes the program go apeshit
2020-06-13T16:55:58 < Mangy_Dog> almost like it might be some strange memory error
2020-06-13T16:56:29 < Mangy_Dog> but like i say... the function, and the function calling that function isnt even being triggered at this stage of the program
2020-06-13T16:57:40 < Cracki> crystal ball
2020-06-13T16:57:55 < Cracki> something has corrupted state of ram
2020-06-13T16:57:57 < Mangy_Dog> might make more sense of it than i cam
2020-06-13T16:57:59 < Mangy_Dog> yeah
2020-06-13T16:58:04 < Mangy_Dog> i suspect that has to be something like that
2020-06-13T16:58:07 < Mangy_Dog> but again
2020-06-13T16:58:09 < Mangy_Dog> NO idea how
2020-06-13T16:58:17 < Cracki> pants down
2020-06-13T16:58:19 < jadew> bad coding
2020-06-13T16:58:23 < Mangy_Dog> maybe jade
2020-06-13T16:58:40 < Cracki> you being puzzled isn't gonna lead to a solution
2020-06-13T16:58:53 < Mangy_Dog> give me a min
2020-06-13T16:58:57 < jadew> start removing code
2020-06-13T16:59:10 < Cracki> transform it into curiosity and experimentation
2020-06-13T16:59:41 < Cracki> >start removing code
2020-06-13T16:59:43 < Cracki> *serbia stronk starts playing*
2020-06-13T17:03:19 < Mangy_Dog> hastebin is still down :(
2020-06-13T17:03:25 < Mangy_Dog> https://pastebin.com/G4kSX9ix
2020-06-13T17:03:39 < Mangy_Dog> hopefully i can try and explain better now
2020-06-13T17:03:44 < Mangy_Dog> its a snippet of code
2020-06-13T17:03:55 < Cracki> demented https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rNCwavDyadU
2020-06-13T17:04:20 < Mangy_Dog> so recoverPresets() is a simple bit of code to recover stored settings off the eeprom to load custom profiles
2020-06-13T17:04:41 < Mangy_Dog> savePresets stores the current settings into a selected profile
2020-06-13T17:04:47 < Cracki> dude
2020-06-13T17:04:51 < Cracki> i = 0..9
2020-06-13T17:04:55 < Cracki> prof2[i+10]
2020-06-13T17:04:56 < Mangy_Dog> thats triggered by buttons and stored
2020-06-13T17:04:58 < Cracki> out of bounds
2020-06-13T17:05:10 < Mangy_Dog> ?
2020-06-13T17:05:16 < Cracki> line 18, 19
2020-06-13T17:05:24 < Cracki> is is 0..9, i+10 is 10..19
2020-06-13T17:05:33 < Cracki> that's oob for prof2, which is [0..9]
2020-06-13T17:05:38 < Cracki> *i is
2020-06-13T17:05:52 < Cracki> did you intend to write to a single array with index calculation
2020-06-13T17:06:15 < Mangy_Dog> hmm?
2020-06-13T17:06:18 < Cracki> or did you mean to read from different positions in eeprom instead of (i) thrice
2020-06-13T17:06:23 < Mangy_Dog> oh
2020-06-13T17:06:34 < Mangy_Dog> good point
2020-06-13T17:06:39 < Mangy_Dog> good catch
2020-06-13T17:06:43 < Mangy_Dog> but not what my problem was
2020-06-13T17:06:54 < Cracki> that's corrupting memory
2020-06-13T17:07:04 < Mangy_Dog> need to swap the + over
2020-06-13T17:07:09 < Mangy_Dog> maybe
2020-06-13T17:07:10 < Mangy_Dog> BUT
2020-06-13T17:07:19 < Mangy_Dog> its still not being called
2020-06-13T17:07:26 < Mangy_Dog> to trigger that memory
2020-06-13T17:07:30 < Mangy_Dog> anyway ill quickly fix that
2020-06-13T17:07:35 < Mangy_Dog> see if it made a difference
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2020-06-13T17:08:23 < Mangy_Dog> ha
2020-06-13T17:08:25 < Mangy_Dog> well that fixed it
2020-06-13T17:08:44 < Mangy_Dog> a little confused though
2020-06-13T17:08:51 < Mangy_Dog> i thought out of counds arrays wrapped around?
2020-06-13T17:08:56 < Cracki> nope
2020-06-13T17:08:57 < Mangy_Dog> not that i was meaning to do that
2020-06-13T17:09:12 < Cracki> in _python_ _negative_ indices wrap around
2020-06-13T17:09:21 < Cracki> in C it's not doing any bounds checking at all
2020-06-13T17:09:52 < Mangy_Dog> hmm
2020-06-13T17:10:03 < Mangy_Dog> so liturally editing memory outside an array bounds
2020-06-13T17:10:10 < Mangy_Dog> isnt that kinda.... umm
2020-06-13T17:10:20 < Mangy_Dog> really dodgy for security?
2020-06-13T17:10:35 < Cracki> it's C
2020-06-13T17:10:41 < Cracki> it will let you do anything
2020-06-13T17:11:06 < Mangy_Dog> though even though this likely caused the issue, i find it really strange that even though this wasnt being triggered at this stage to actually damage used memory
2020-06-13T17:11:14 < Cracki> and yes it's dodgy, which is why people should stop using C for application development (because C is tricky) or security sensitive things like kernels
2020-06-13T17:11:29 < Mangy_Dog> hmm
2020-06-13T17:11:49 < Cracki> if it ran, it trashed some variables
2020-06-13T17:12:23 < Mangy_Dog> nods
2020-06-13T17:13:09 < Cracki> drunk programming contests love to use C
2020-06-13T17:13:58 < Cracki> electronics jenga, run something, then tell people to desolder/saw out various components
2020-06-13T17:14:53 < Mangy_Dog> :D
2020-06-13T17:15:25 < Mangy_Dog> well the eeprom stuff is working as it should now at least
2020-06-13T17:15:55 < Mangy_Dog> thanks for spotting that mistake
2020-06-13T17:16:19 < Mangy_Dog> the +10 +20 shoudl have been in the eepom adressing
2020-06-13T17:16:23 < Cracki> tired programming :P
2020-06-13T17:16:40 < Mangy_Dog> actually i think i did write that function last minute before bed 2 night ago
2020-06-13T17:16:55 < Mangy_Dog> its only just this morning ive been finishing up the storage code
2020-06-13T17:16:58 < Mangy_Dog> and button handling for it
2020-06-13T17:17:38 < Mangy_Dog> i just wish i could get more stable serial data between nextion and the mcu
2020-06-13T17:17:46 < Mangy_Dog> i occationaly get a bad packet
2020-06-13T17:18:02 < Mangy_Dog> meaning i need to press a button more than once for it to respond
2020-06-13T17:18:15 < Mangy_Dog> but theres no way to do 2 way error handling
2020-06-13T17:18:52 < Mangy_Dog> the nextions currently on software serial... ill be using a faster baud when i move it onto hardware serial... im kinda just hoping its a bit more stable too
2020-06-13T17:19:14 < Mangy_Dog> im currently using the hardware serial for debugging through usb
2020-06-13T17:19:21 < Mangy_Dog> soooo bit stuffed with that at the mo
2020-06-13T17:21:12 < Mangy_Dog> i guess i cant put it off any more... i guess i need to do my heatup code
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2020-06-13T17:51:16 < dongs> waht about DS1202Z ?
2020-06-13T17:51:18 < dongs> that seems newer
2020-06-13T17:51:23 < dongs> better ui/ux/firmware/hardware?
2020-06-13T17:51:54 < jadew> that's a 2 channel scope
2020-06-13T17:53:08 < dongs> yes but he doesnt need 4 channels either
2020-06-13T17:53:16 < dongs> and isnt riglol 4 channel 1/4's teh bandwidth if you use all 4
2020-06-13T17:53:49 < jadew> it's 1/4 the sample rate
2020-06-13T17:53:59 < dongs> well or that
2020-06-13T17:54:28 < jadew> 4 channels are more useful for digital stuff
2020-06-13T17:54:32 < dongs> aight
2020-06-13T17:55:19 -!- emeb [~ericb@ip174-73-159-221.ph.ph.cox.net] has joined ##stm32
2020-06-13T17:57:05 < dongs> oh, he already ordered 1054 anyway.
2020-06-13T17:57:12 < dongs> so whatever.
2020-06-13T17:57:18 < dongs> same chink shit
2020-06-13T17:57:19 < jadew> the Z one?
2020-06-13T17:57:22 < dongs> yeah the new one
2020-06-13T17:57:26 < jadew> cool
2020-06-13T17:57:26 < dongs> whatever you niggers linked
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2020-06-13T19:39:06 < Cracki> thought police puts winston churchill behind iron curtain https://ichef.bbci.co.uk/news/660/cpsprodpb/9AB8/production/_112880693_mediaitem112880187.jpg
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2020-06-13T19:51:24 < Mangy_Dog> Ok i might not need to make this a class but i felt i needed the practice and im right... Im having a undeclared variable in one of my class functions  even though that variable is public in that class...
2020-06-13T19:52:28 < Mangy_Dog> https://pastebin.com/MvPGjPg0
2020-06-13T19:53:02 < Mangy_Dog> im getting an error when i try to use pin
2020-06-13T19:53:21 < Mangy_Dog> in digitalwrite...
2020-06-13T19:53:42 -!- jsoft [~jsoft@unaffiliated/jsoft] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds]
2020-06-13T19:54:06 < Steffanx> where does the variable magically come from?
2020-06-13T19:54:37 < Mangy_Dog> heater(uint8_t pin);
2020-06-13T19:54:38 < Mangy_Dog> ?
2020-06-13T19:55:00 < Steffanx> but you use it in your function runheaterPWM?
2020-06-13T19:55:03 < Mangy_Dog> its meant to be an argument when creating the object... i thought that passed through?
2020-06-13T19:55:07 < Steffanx> which has no parameters?
2020-06-13T19:55:43 < Mangy_Dog> but its part of the class?
2020-06-13T19:55:47 < Steffanx> you have to store it inside your class.
2020-06-13T19:55:54 < Mangy_Dog> it is?
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2020-06-13T19:56:52 < Steffanx> no.. you pass it to some constructor to not do anything with it :)
2020-06-13T19:57:14 < Mangy_Dog> what should line 9 look like?
2020-06-13T19:57:20 < Steffanx> uint8_t pin; ...  heater(uint8_t _pin) : pin(_pin) { }  or something like that
2020-06-13T19:58:15 < Steffanx> You need a class member variable, it wont magically appear.
2020-06-13T19:58:34 < Mangy_Dog> 	heater(uint8_t pin); i thought that line created the variable too
2020-06-13T19:58:36 < Steffanx> and give it a value, somewhere
2020-06-13T19:59:11 < Steffanx> idk, maybe it does in the arduino world :P
2020-06-13T19:59:19 < Steffanx> that's a magical world.
2020-06-13T19:59:20 < Mangy_Dog> well it wasnt working
2020-06-13T19:59:22 < Cracki> it's all C++, nothing special to arduino
2020-06-13T19:59:38 < Cracki> "heater(uint8_t pin);" is just declaring that there's a constructor with an uint8 argument, not what the constructor actually does
2020-06-13T19:59:42 < Mangy_Dog> i was just guessing by looking at other libraryies like software serial and how it declared its class
2020-06-13T19:59:49 < Cracki> it's like any other function/method.
2020-06-13T20:00:23 < Cracki> the ": foo(bar), foo(bar)" stuff is shorthand for writing "foo = bar; foo = bar;" inside the constructor body
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2020-06-13T20:00:43 < Cracki> (kinda... there's more to it, but it's the same for plain integer variables)
2020-06-13T20:02:31 < Cracki> you don't even need to avoid name clashes. you can have both a member named "foo" and the parameter named "foo", and : foo(foo) will do the right thing heater(uint8_t pin);
2020-06-13T20:02:35 < Cracki> https://stackoverflow.com/questions/2476381/c-constructor-initialization-list-strangeness
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2020-06-13T20:03:59 < Cracki> x(y) initializes the member x using y. for integers that's just the value. for actual objects, those act like arguments to a constructor call
2020-06-13T20:05:06 < Mangy_Dog> hmmm
2020-06-13T20:11:35 < Steffanx> Hmmm
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2020-06-13T20:13:07 < Cracki> ЧЩЩЩ
2020-06-13T20:14:01 < Mangy_Dog> ?P
2020-06-13T20:27:08 < Steffanx> Ty
2020-06-13T20:29:24 < specing> Thorn: did we miss a musk launch?
2020-06-13T20:29:30 < specing> June 13Falcon 9 ? Starlink 8/SkySats 16-18
2020-06-13T20:30:12 < Cracki> you did
2020-06-13T20:31:54 < specing> damn it
2020-06-13T20:32:57 < Cracki> it was all smooth sailing
2020-06-13T20:34:19 < Steffanx> You didnt miss a thing specing. Energy wasting machines..
2020-06-13T20:34:26 < Steffanx> Its not even electric.
2020-06-13T20:35:20 < specing> Steffanx: it's not internal combustion though :)
2020-06-13T20:35:36 < Steffanx> :P
2020-06-13T20:37:01 < specing> The progress outweighs the damage they do to the environment
2020-06-13T20:37:21 < specing> which, for a hundred rockets per year, is pretty much negligeable in the grand scheme of things
2020-06-13T20:38:00 < Cracki> the grand scheme of things is becoming a multiplanetary species
2020-06-13T20:38:06 < Cracki> in the near term
2020-06-13T20:38:09 < strata> i sure hope not
2020-06-13T20:38:17 < specing> the grand scheme of things is becoming less dumb
2020-06-13T20:38:21 < Cracki> don't worry he won't give our kind a ride
2020-06-13T20:38:28 < specing> and making sure we don't extinct ourselves
2020-06-13T20:38:39 < strata> we as a species are not worthy of inhabiting other planets. i'm sure if we ever meet intelligent life beyond our solar system, they'll agree.
2020-06-13T20:38:39 < Cracki> he's doing #2 because #1 is futile to attempt
2020-06-13T20:39:13 < specing> Cracki: no matter what we do, we cannot make earth less hospitable than other planets in our solar system
2020-06-13T20:39:18 < Cracki> I'm curious how the shitlibs are gonna lobotomize true AI
2020-06-13T20:39:25 < specing> we simply don't have the technology for that
2020-06-13T20:39:45 < Cracki> I think if we're ever gonna go extinct, it's because AI is seeing us as a threat to its integrity
2020-06-13T20:40:02 < strata> no. we will go extinct because it will be too politically incorrect to survive.
2020-06-13T20:40:29 < Cracki> it's like every single student at my uni is a programmed automaton
2020-06-13T20:40:45 < Cracki> that place feels like a vampire castle
2020-06-13T20:41:23 < Cracki> they smell that you're not one of them
2020-06-13T20:47:51 < srk> Cracki: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/LessWrong#Roko's_basilisk :D
2020-06-13T20:48:02 < Cracki> ikr
2020-06-13T20:48:23 < Cracki> absolutely neurotic
2020-06-13T20:48:50 < Cracki> these people philosophizing is all fine and dandy but DO NOT give them any hand in the creation of actual machine sentience
2020-06-13T20:49:16 < Cracki> lock them in ivory towers where they belong
2020-06-13T20:49:17 < srk> :)
2020-06-13T20:49:57 < Cracki> this is the kind of damaged mind that would fap over type systems and category theory
2020-06-13T20:51:31 < srk> and type level programming
2020-06-13T20:55:22 < Cracki> *squint* you seem sticky
2020-06-13T20:57:51 < Cracki> https://stackoverflow.com/questions/24481113/what-are-some-examples-of-type-level-programming
2020-06-13T20:59:07 < Cracki> that is precisely "puzzle solving". someone comes up with a set of rules, and then some particular type of mind latches on to that and looks for a way out of the imaginary maze.
2020-06-13T20:59:40 < Cracki> instead of discarding the rules and making new ones that aren't a maze
2020-06-13T21:01:15 < srk> abstractions are just tools to allow you to reason about things without dealing with the details, sometimes restrictive for a reason like ivory, which doesn't allow you to shoot yourself in the foot that easily as for example C does
2020-06-13T21:01:18 < Cracki> there should be no fundamental difference between executing code at compile time or at runtime, except at compile time the execution results in more code and at runtime, it results in values (which is a pointless restriction)
2020-06-13T21:02:09 < srk> type level programming is often about restricting what types can you construct, ruling out those that don't make sense
2020-06-13T21:04:12  * srk playing with https://hackage.haskell.org/package/polysemy
2020-06-13T21:09:22 < srk> recently I was wondering if this is some elaborate joke or real https://github.com/fairy-tale-agi-solutions
2020-06-13T21:10:21 < Mangy_Dog> ok another problem with my class i cant work out :D im using a threadSchudule library, and i have a timer call to make one of the functions inside the class run. The control is also within the class... But getting an error " invalid use of non-static member function 'void heater::runheaterPWM()'"
2020-06-13T21:10:58 < Mangy_Dog> https://pastebin.com/cjVSsFnt
2020-06-13T21:11:49 < srk> static void? :)
2020-06-13T21:12:07 < Mangy_Dog> just void
2020-06-13T21:12:10 < Mangy_Dog> what should it be?
2020-06-13T21:12:39 < srk> I mean if you change 'void runHeater' to 'static void runHeater' but it's been a while since I've done any C++
2020-06-13T21:13:22 < Mangy_Dog> that broke it in other ways
2020-06-13T21:13:28 < Cracki> wait a minute
2020-06-13T21:13:30 < srk> yeah, it's something different "If it is placed in a class, it means that the function is not part of a class instance but instead is common to all instances of the class."
2020-06-13T21:13:33 < Cracki> you need an instance of that heater class
2020-06-13T21:13:37 < Cracki> I don't see that
2020-06-13T21:13:52 < Cracki> THEN you can think about handing a method as a handler to something
2020-06-13T21:13:54 < Mangy_Dog> its elsewhere in the program
2020-06-13T21:13:59 < Cracki>                     heatPWM.onRun(runheaterPWM); 
2020-06-13T21:14:02 < Cracki> that's not enough
2020-06-13T21:14:09 < Cracki> runheaterPWM is a method, not a function
2020-06-13T21:14:37 < Cracki> a method is a function that belongs to a class, and a method can be called on an object (or the class itself, if the method is "static")
2020-06-13T21:15:35 < Cracki> is that void run() thing a method of the heater class?
2020-06-13T21:16:18 < Cracki> what's the signature onRun expects?
2020-06-13T21:16:21 < Mangy_Dog> method is a new term to me sorry :/ but it is a function within the class
2020-06-13T21:16:28 < Cracki> you might not be able to simply pass it a method
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2020-06-13T21:17:07 < Mangy_Dog> hmm
2020-06-13T21:17:10 < Cracki> your paste is confusing
2020-06-13T21:17:17 < Mangy_Dog> sorry:/
2020-06-13T21:17:30 < Cracki> line 47 is instantiating a thread, but linr 48 is a funtion/method definition
2020-06-13T21:17:32 < Mangy_Dog> im still trying to build it and figure out how best to run the heating control
2020-06-13T21:17:39 < Cracki> that is copypasted from multiple places
2020-06-13T21:18:18 < Cracki> give L44 a look for indentation
2020-06-13T21:18:51 < Mangy_Dog> i placed that there but didnt format it 
2020-06-13T21:19:33 < Cracki> ok what is this Thread thing, where are the docs for that
2020-06-13T21:19:47 < Mangy_Dog> https://pastebin.com/Nf8kSFBf
2020-06-13T21:19:53 < Mangy_Dog> full class
2020-06-13T21:19:58 < Mangy_Dog> sorry the last paste was a snippet
2020-06-13T21:20:44 < Mangy_Dog> truth be told... its just called ThreadController i have no idea who made it or even where i got it from, its a library i had for years that ive used a fait bit
2020-06-13T21:20:48 < Mangy_Dog> its not a true rtos
2020-06-13T21:21:07 < Cracki> it's important that we know what this run thing expects for an argument
2020-06-13T21:21:10 < Cracki> i.e. typewise
2020-06-13T21:21:13 < Mangy_Dog> just something really stripped down and great for simple timed thread control
2020-06-13T21:21:16 < Cracki> can't just pass it whatever
2020-06-13T21:21:31 < Cracki> https://github.com/ivanseidel/ArduinoThread
2020-06-13T21:21:39 < Mangy_Dog> maybe that 
2020-06-13T21:21:39 < Mangy_Dog> :D
2020-06-13T21:21:40 < Cracki> that must be it
2020-06-13T21:22:13 < Mangy_Dog> yeah looks like it
2020-06-13T21:22:19 < Mangy_Dog> brb checking on pizza thats in oven
2020-06-13T21:22:53 < Cracki> reflowing the cheese
2020-06-13T21:23:04 < Mangy_Dog> indeed
2020-06-13T21:23:13 < Mangy_Dog> its ok needs a good few more minutes
2020-06-13T21:23:23 < Cracki> https://github.com/ivanseidel/ArduinoThread/blob/fd9ebfe272da807c93642b603db2e5000fa2c3f0/Thread.cpp#L42
2020-06-13T21:23:27 < Cracki> you need a void(void)
2020-06-13T21:23:31 < Cracki> no method will fit the bill
2020-06-13T21:24:18 < strata> the main function is where a program starts execution. and typically has access to the command line arguments of the program.
2020-06-13T21:24:20 < Cracki> I'm not nearly knowledgeable enough with C++ to advise here. afaics it needs a plain function.
2020-06-13T21:24:36 < Mangy_Dog> a function thats outside the class?
2020-06-13T21:24:39 < Cracki> yes
2020-06-13T21:24:48 < Cracki> it needs a plain function pointer
2020-06-13T21:24:54 < Cracki> methods are more complex beasts
2020-06-13T21:25:11 < Cracki> I think C++ can give you something to do this
2020-06-13T21:25:14 < Mangy_Dog> hm
2020-06-13T21:25:16 < strata> this drum & bass track will make you a CS grad https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jEbj7wVjxEY
2020-06-13T21:25:21 < Cracki> anonymous functions, function literals, or whatever they're called
2020-06-13T21:25:57 < Mangy_Dog> well ill just pull the thread maker thing out of the class then
2020-06-13T21:26:03 < Mangy_Dog> and just figure out some controls externally
2020-06-13T21:26:04 < Cracki> try this: heatPWM.onRun( []() { runheaterPWM(); } );
2020-06-13T21:26:14 < Cracki> I'm not sure if that's gonna work
2020-06-13T21:26:38 < Mangy_Dog> naa didnt
2020-06-13T21:27:41 < Mangy_Dog> well so much for putting all teh heating controlls into a nice tidy class
2020-06-13T21:27:41 < Mangy_Dog> :D
2020-06-13T21:27:56 < Cracki> blame that dumb library :>
2020-06-13T21:27:57 < Mangy_Dog> ill tackle it again after eaten supper
2020-06-13T21:28:04 < Mangy_Dog> na not going to do that
2020-06-13T21:28:06 < Cracki> it's made for plain fucntion pointers, not for std::function
2020-06-13T21:28:12 < Mangy_Dog> the libraryhas been great so far
2020-06-13T21:28:23 < Cracki> examples for mortals: http://www.cplusplus.com/reference/functional/function/function/
2020-06-13T21:28:27 < Mangy_Dog> im not sure i could have written anything better
2020-06-13T21:29:29 < srk> blame OOP
2020-06-13T21:29:35 < Cracki> https://stackoverflow.com/questions/10938774/get-function-pointer-from-stdfunction-when-using-stdbind
2020-06-13T21:29:45 < Cracki> first answer: "impossible"
2020-06-13T21:30:27 < Mangy_Dog> heh
2020-06-13T21:30:38 < Cracki> I think you can do this... if you do the onRun call outside
2020-06-13T21:31:02 < Cracki> that means the thread stuff goes out of the class, and "the user" of the heater object has to handle hooking it up to that timer
2020-06-13T21:31:43 < Cracki> you'd need a function that calls the method on the heater object, and then thread.onRun(thatfunction)
2020-06-13T21:32:55 < srk> win 88
2020-06-13T21:33:01 < srk> oop
2020-06-13T21:37:45 < Cracki> lotsa windows
2020-06-13T21:38:04 < srk> overflowing again, 8 fcking lines..
2020-06-13T21:38:57 < srk> need to close a bunch and hide some I don't need that often via znc
2020-06-13T21:39:26 < Cracki> screenshot must look like ie4 with a dozen toolbars
2020-06-13T21:39:51 < srk> :D pretty much, except on the bottom 
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--- Day changed Sun Jun 14 2020
2020-06-14T00:12:16 -!- bvernoux [~Ben@88.120.152.126] has quit [Quit: Leaving]
2020-06-14T00:13:14 < catphish> finally picked up my wife's polo gti, that thing is way more fun than i even imagined
2020-06-14T00:14:24 < Steffanx> Someone is going to use this car more often then the actual owner...
2020-06-14T00:15:38 < PaulFertser> I wonder how is it possible to have fun on public roads if you're a responsible driver.
2020-06-14T00:16:16 < PaulFertser> When you're concerned about safety all the time, how can it be any fun?
2020-06-14T00:21:39 < PaulFertser> What kind of place did you find that allows you to test cornering abilities without risking too much in case it finally loses the traction and slips sideways?
2020-06-14T00:32:00 < Steffanx> Lol that too. 
2020-06-14T00:32:08 < Steffanx> Party pooper PaulFertser  :P
2020-06-14T00:34:22 < PaulFertser> I'm just envy.
2020-06-14T00:35:27 < PaulFertser> I haven't ridden my stupid motor bike since November.
2020-06-14T00:35:48 < PaulFertser> But even if I had, it's no fun.
2020-06-14T00:39:05 < PaulFertser> I had a short drive in nissan juke but it was more odd that fun.
2020-06-14T00:41:23 < Steffanx> In russia everyone drives like a mad man, so.. its fine if you do that as well PaulFertser 
2020-06-14T00:42:11 < PaulFertser> Steffanx: I'm not your typical russian
2020-06-14T00:42:46 < Steffanx> True. Ive never seen you use the words "cyka blyat" yet.
2020-06-14T00:54:59 < Ultrasauce> this orthography is offensive
2020-06-14T01:11:41 < Steffanx> What what Ultrasauce ?
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2020-06-14T01:12:35 < Steffanx> Finally kakimate  
2020-06-14T01:12:40 < kakimate> it's mating time
2020-06-14T01:12:44 < Steffanx> Found some music spams i had to share
2020-06-14T01:12:51 < kakimate> night posse
2020-06-14T01:13:27 < Steffanx> https://youtu.be/743xWHXE7Tg
2020-06-14T01:13:28 < Steffanx> Lol
2020-06-14T01:15:08 < kakimate> I cannot
2020-06-14T01:16:44 < kakimate> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N3kkNfH4yco mid 2000s
2020-06-14T01:18:23 < Steffanx> How can you not like Amazing stroopwafels, kakimate 
2020-06-14T01:20:43 < kakimate> I'm lame like that
2020-06-14T01:26:29 < Steffanx> It is know
2020-06-14T01:26:51 < Steffanx> I didnt post it to be liked by you anyway :P
2020-06-14T01:36:57 < kakimate> it's a conversation piece right
2020-06-14T01:37:15 < kakimate> or something to react to
2020-06-14T01:47:22 < Steffanx> Hah i guess
2020-06-14T02:02:53 < karlp> PaulFertser:where else can I buy bike parts from other than chain reaction "nicely" ?
2020-06-14T02:05:57 < kakimate> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Catharsis
2020-06-14T02:06:07 < kakimate> I'm trying to find
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2020-06-14T02:11:20 < karlp> heh, wiggle has no stock on gear cables either
2020-06-14T02:11:24 < karlp> that's funny.
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2020-06-14T02:24:17 < Laurenceb_> >Nero had earlier married another freedman, Pythagoras, who had played the role of Nero's husband; now Sporus played the role of Nero's wife
2020-06-14T02:24:26 < Laurenceb_> fun Greco-Roman facts
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2020-06-14T02:27:07 < kakimate> tell me about ancient sex lurencer
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2020-06-14T02:39:57 < Steffanx> Lolwhat
2020-06-14T02:40:53 < kakimate> yes
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2020-06-14T03:17:31 < upgrdman> color pros: anyone know what color space this color wheel is from? https://pt.slideshare.net/krafty_reports/ba-color-wheel   it's very nice (perceptually evenly spaced) and it doesn't look like it based on RGB, HSV or LAB.
2020-06-14T03:32:49 < braindamage> it's HSB
2020-06-14T03:32:51 < braindamage> hue saturation brightness
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2020-06-14T03:37:59 < upgrdman> no, hsb still has an r/g/b pattern to it
2020-06-14T03:38:22 < upgrdman> this wheel looks like a painters pallete. red/yellow/blue as the primaries.
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2020-06-14T07:49:16 < Thorn> would you rely on builtin pullups/pulldowns for a reed switch input circuit?
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2020-06-14T10:20:17 < jpa-> Thorn: depends on if the reed switch has a minimum wetting current rating
2020-06-14T10:21:28 < jpa-> in general, should be fine
2020-06-14T10:22:01 < PaulFertser> karlp: there's evanscycles uk shop, I was happy buying from them until they blocked all russian IPs from accessing their website.
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2020-06-14T11:31:40 < qyx> meh F750 datasheet doesn't list all QUADSPI signals in the AF table
2020-06-14T11:32:40 < qyx> also dual-mode QUADSPI bank2 conflicts with SDRAM
2020-06-14T11:37:59 < Cracki> upgrdman_, try looking at it as cyan magenta yellow
2020-06-14T11:38:19 < Cracki> print production peeps think in CMYK
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2020-06-14T11:39:16 < Cracki> it's not quite CMY either. the diff between adjacent sectors varies. they must have hand picked those colors for artistic reasons
2020-06-14T11:41:54 < Cracki> maybe poke it with a color picker and try to make sense of it
2020-06-14T11:45:37 < Cracki> that "magazine" doesn't have a website anymore, and their twitter has stopped activity in 2013
2020-06-14T11:53:46 < antto> upgrdman_ you can make a perceptual color wheel.. what's the question?
2020-06-14T11:54:50 < antto> btw, the blue on that wheel still looks slightly darker in the outter ring
2020-06-14T11:55:32 < upgrdman_> ya i looked at it with a color picker and found no obvious pattern
2020-06-14T11:55:46 < upgrdman_> so i'm trying to figure out a LAB color wheel now
2020-06-14T11:56:15 < upgrdman_> i just want a programmatic way to generate a color wheel with N colors, perceptually evenly spaced
2020-06-14T11:56:19 < antto> https://i.imgur.com/ynsHL8E.png
2020-06-14T11:56:26 < antto> here's one of my first attempts
2020-06-14T11:56:30 < upgrdman_> LAB seems like the best option so far
2020-06-14T11:56:59 < antto> gray is in the center
2020-06-14T11:57:18 < antto> this is technically supposed to be a chroma circle thing
2020-06-14T11:57:57 < antto> another one: https://i.imgur.com/F3drJVt.png ... a bad one: https://i.imgur.com/fffr7l0.png
2020-06-14T11:59:23 < antto> but when i made an actual perceptual color picker, i didn't go for a circle: https://i.imgur.com/XHg7P0X.png
2020-06-14T12:00:35 < antto> this is iirc xyY color space, and the triangle there shows the colors which fit in sRGB supposedly
2020-06-14T12:01:24 < upgrdman_> hmm
2020-06-14T12:03:55 < antto> afaik xyY is pretty old, it's one of the first ones that tried to be perceptual and to make it possible to have sorta measurable color/chroma difference on a 2D plane
2020-06-14T12:04:22 < antto> but i used it cuz it's simple and the coordinates go from 0 to 1.0
2020-06-14T12:06:31 < antto> upgrdman_ wut'cha trying to make?
2020-06-14T12:09:16 < upgrdman_> antto, color picker for my TelemetryViewer. i've been using some shit one built into java, and it's shit. so i'm autisming up something nice.
2020-06-14T12:09:51 < antto> oh
2020-06-14T12:10:18 < antto> if it doesn't have to be uber accurate, then you can do something approximately like me then
2020-06-14T12:10:51 < jpa-> upgrdman_: if you want that nice color wheel, just screenshot it :)
2020-06-14T12:10:53 < antto> xyY is good enough
2020-06-14T12:11:13 < antto> that's cheating jpa-, also that wheel is kinda useless
2020-06-14T12:11:21 < jpa-> no point generating with any fancy algorithm when you can just pick points from a bitmap
2020-06-14T12:13:02 < upgrdman_> jpa-, but i'm try to simply it, and i want to to be a nice interactive GUI where the colors enlarge onMouseOver, etc.
2020-06-14T12:13:20 < upgrdman_> simplify*
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2020-06-14T12:13:30 < Cracki> nudist yak camp
2020-06-14T12:13:56 < antto> nice color blending requires fugly mathz https://i.imgur.com/0txF171.png
2020-06-14T12:17:22 < antto> found this too, i don't remember wut i was trying to see here, must be related to sRGB-ness: https://i.imgur.com/vBQEy1R.png
2020-06-14T12:18:43 < antto> hm, maybe i've been trying to see how my pseudo "saturation" parameter would look like at various levels
2020-06-14T12:19:54 < upgrdman> current design is this. it's kinda ugly, but strangely intriguing too https://imgur.com/a/Ehey5DS
2020-06-14T12:20:12 < antto> o_O
2020-06-14T12:20:29 < zyp> if the standard HSV is not good enough for you, can't you just apply some curve transformation to the hue that'll space out some parts like you want?
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2020-06-14T12:20:58 < antto> zyp the main problem with HSB and similar sh*t is that the luma varies with the hue
2020-06-14T12:21:13 < upgrdman> ^ that
2020-06-14T12:21:15 < zyp> oh, heh
2020-06-14T12:21:25 < upgrdman> antto, ya, ugly, i know :) working on it
2020-06-14T12:21:42 < antto> green sh*t looks brighter than red sh*t, red sh*t looks brighter than blue sh*t
2020-06-14T12:21:51 < upgrdman> but i want it quantized to specific colors, not just an image and you click on a pixel
2020-06-14T12:22:26 < antto> sure, that's fine
2020-06-14T12:23:46 < antto> for my circles, i think i've used my triangle over xyY, and then i map the maximum saturation to a point on the triangle, minimum saturation on the gray coordinates inside the triangle, and the chroma is then the 2D angle
2020-06-14T12:24:00 < antto> so it's kinda wrong according to xyY but who cares
2020-06-14T12:24:15 < antto> i mean the perceptual color gets bent
2020-06-14T12:24:56 < antto> if you make a similar maping you can just quantize the pseudo parameters however you like
2020-06-14T12:26:50 < antto> i think there might exist attempts at making something similar to HSB/HSV/HSL but less sh*t, moar perceptual, but i haven't looked into it
2020-06-14T12:27:01 < antto> might've been CIELUV
2020-06-14T12:27:04 < antto> or some such
2020-06-14T12:27:45 < antto> oh, and i also skipped the smol linear segment in the gamma curve, f*ck that
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2020-06-14T12:42:48 < upgrdman> a little more tweaking  https://imgur.com/a/juRkHTq
2020-06-14T12:43:19 < upgrdman> kinda annoying how many LAB colors are outside of sRGB :(
2020-06-14T12:43:24 < upgrdman> lots of clipping
2020-06-14T12:45:33 < upgrdman> with LAB, the "pure" colors are supposed to be at L=50, right?
2020-06-14T12:52:34 < antto> no idea, i didn't like LAB and didn't play with it
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2020-06-14T13:04:27 < qyx> https://i.imgur.com/49Ra029.png
2020-06-14T13:04:33 < qyx> huh, * means under development
2020-06-14T13:15:11 < dongs> they're growing the pins?
2020-06-14T13:26:36 < qyx> I just realized that RI for NB-IoT may not be that common
2020-06-14T13:42:45 < PaulFertser> I know some time ago it was popular to attach small additional displays (like those hd44780-based) to computers to show CPU load and other status. Is it just wanking off or does it make any sense? I wonder if it would be cool if TS100 soldering iron was always lying on some visible place and display some status received via USB? Or would it be pure autism not appealing to anybody?
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2020-06-14T13:53:03 < rapha> hi all
2020-06-14T13:55:20 < rapha> on those parts (f303 here) that have built-in comparators, how do you use one of those to disconnect something if the current-pull goes too high? or would you not use it at all and instead use one of the also built-in op-amps with a shunt to directly measure the current and disconnect the thing in firmware?
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2020-06-14T14:37:50 < zyp> rapha, what is that «something»?
2020-06-14T14:38:21 < zyp> if you're e.g. running that something with pwm, then I'd check if those comparators had a routing to the timer's break input
2020-06-14T14:48:14 -!- jsoft [~jsoft@unaffiliated/jsoft] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds]
2020-06-14T15:20:56 < Thorn> good book y/n https://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/book/10.1002/9781119011866
2020-06-14T15:32:39 < Cracki> long title doesn't bode well
2020-06-14T15:32:49 < Cracki> means the punchy ones were taken already
2020-06-14T15:33:24 < Cracki> first published 2017, expect wonky sections and errata
2020-06-14T15:34:05 < Cracki> wait, free access? nice
2020-06-14T15:34:33 < Cracki> love who he gives thanks to
2020-06-14T15:34:52 < dongs> wa tyou mean free
2020-06-14T15:35:06 < Cracki> oh, just the index
2020-06-14T15:35:22 < Cracki> hm lemme try if my uni has access
2020-06-14T15:35:51 < Cracki> bingo
2020-06-14T15:36:12 < Cracki> samizdat
2020-06-14T15:37:09 < Steffanx> Nothing in lib genesis?
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2020-06-14T15:40:34 < Cracki> wew a chapter on sat orbits
2020-06-14T15:41:57 < Cracki> two dozen pdfs, who needs it
2020-06-14T15:44:35 < Cracki> libgen has an entry but I can't quite parse their site... http://gen.lib.rus.ec/book/index.php?md5=5C2648C87DEB9CBFA19E95059EE254AE
2020-06-14T15:45:44 < Cracki> one of the downloads is 40 MB and looks like what I got
2020-06-14T15:46:35 < dongs> click the thing under ISSN i guess, it goes to some 93.* ip site
2020-06-14T15:46:45 < dongs> takes an hour to download tho haha
2020-06-14T15:47:31 < Cracki> ah, the "GET" link on top
2020-06-14T15:47:38 < dongs> yes
2020-06-14T15:48:17 < Cracki> pick from here, goes quicker https://libgen.pw/links?id=1640304&adblock=true
2020-06-14T15:48:48 < dongs> not in a hurry, it went down to 10m ins remaining
2020-06-14T15:48:53 < dongs> im coding other shit so i can wait even an hour
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2020-06-14T15:59:08 < Steffanx> Gooday Thorn 
2020-06-14T15:59:25 < Thorn> hi Steffanx 
2020-06-14T16:00:24 < rapha> zyp: the "something" would be to set some GPIO HIGH and thereby disable the two TLC5947s causing the current draw.
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2020-06-14T16:01:28 < Cracki> what current draw
2020-06-14T16:01:30 < rapha> (those are the ones doing the PWM, not the MCU, so I think using their blanking feature is easier. but my question is really about how to hook up the comparator physically)
2020-06-14T16:01:46 < rapha> Cracki: current draw of 48 LEDs from USB power.
2020-06-14T16:01:56 < Cracki> and what is a comparator supposed to do here
2020-06-14T16:02:37 < rapha> Cracki: i was thinking comparing the USB voltage (after it has gone through a divider) to Vref?
2020-06-14T16:02:42 < Cracki> wat
2020-06-14T16:02:45 < rapha> but really what I'm asking is: how to best do this?
2020-06-14T16:02:56 < Cracki> if you suck too much on usb, the host will cut you off
2020-06-14T16:03:01 < Cracki> best do what
2020-06-14T16:03:09 < rapha> best prevent the host from cutting me off
2020-06-14T16:03:10 < Cracki> use a fuse
2020-06-14T16:03:14 < rapha> ur
2020-06-14T16:03:16 < Cracki> :>
2020-06-14T16:03:18 < rapha> no
2020-06-14T16:03:20 < Cracki> use less current
2020-06-14T16:03:20 < rapha> dynamically
2020-06-14T16:03:26 < Cracki> sense current.
2020-06-14T16:03:29 < rapha> with the MCU
2020-06-14T16:03:31 < Cracki> how do you plan to sense current.
2020-06-14T16:03:46 < rapha> by comparing Vref and USB voltages
2020-06-14T16:03:48 < Cracki> you aren't gonna be seeing anything useful on the 5v from usb. you must sense current.
2020-06-14T16:03:53 < rapha> but from your reaction, that's not the way to do it
2020-06-14T16:03:58 < rapha> okay
2020-06-14T16:04:00 < rapha> so
2020-06-14T16:04:11 < rapha> a shunt then, and one of the F303's op-amps?
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2020-06-14T16:04:50 < Cracki> so you take a shunt resistor 0.1 or 0.05 ohm or whatever, and you use the voltage across that resistor. you can use a comparator to compare the shunt's voltage to some set voltage, where both voltages represent current values
2020-06-14T16:05:07 < Cracki> or you could ADC the shunt's voltage
2020-06-14T16:05:14 < rapha> hmm
2020-06-14T16:05:18 < Cracki> if you only need a threshold, comparator is good enough
2020-06-14T16:05:19 < srk> Cracki: lol, microsoft going all-in on rust
2020-06-14T16:05:31 < strata> oh god
2020-06-14T16:05:36 < strata> are they gonna buy it from mozilla?
2020-06-14T16:05:36 < Cracki> rapha, what is an opamp supposed to do?
2020-06-14T16:06:07 < srk> strata: lol
2020-06-14T16:06:15 < srk> https://blogs.windows.com/windowsdeveloper/2020/04/30/rust-winrt-public-preview/
2020-06-14T16:06:17 < Cracki> if you want useful feedback, just adc the shunt's voltage and react to what you see, i.e. reduce pwm duty cycles or sth
2020-06-14T16:06:44 < rapha> Cracki: often, you see a shunt together with an op-amp. as in, https://i.stack.imgur.com/hXNZt.png ... but i guess the ADCs are good enough to not need that
2020-06-14T16:06:54 < Cracki> a comparator (+ reference voltage as a setpoint for current) will only tell you if it's exceeding that threshold, and you can act on that by switching off completely or sth
2020-06-14T16:07:05 < Cracki> I'm asking what the point is
2020-06-14T16:07:07 < rapha> my original idea was to try and see when the USB voltage sagsd
2020-06-14T16:07:14 < Cracki> don't watch the voltage
2020-06-14T16:07:28 < rapha> the point is to prevent pulling more than USB can deliver
2020-06-14T16:07:30 < Cracki> that sags depending on resistance of the cable and connectors
2020-06-14T16:07:41 < Cracki> again, sense current
2020-06-14T16:08:07 < rapha> and how do i know when i'm exceeding what that particular USB connection can reasonably deliver?
2020-06-14T16:08:16 < Cracki> you *may* want to monitor supply voltage because if you suck half an amp through a shit cable, you may see voltage drop ACROSS THE CABLE of some significance
2020-06-14T16:08:29 < Cracki> but that doesn't mean the host will cut you off, just that you get shit voltage
2020-06-14T16:08:39 < Cracki> simple
2020-06-14T16:08:45 < Cracki> 100 mA is standard
2020-06-14T16:08:50 < Cracki> 500 mA if you ask the host nicely
2020-06-14T16:08:54 < Cracki> more if you ask in french
2020-06-14T16:08:56 < rapha> oh wait
2020-06-14T16:08:59 < rapha> USB-C!!!
2020-06-14T16:09:29 < Cracki> do you use any kind of USB chip that asks for a specific voltage?
2020-06-14T16:09:53 < strata> srk: absolutely disgusting. they buy github, they buy npm, they buy rust next... it's not about EEE. it's about capturing all of the developer mindshare and churning out a generation of software engineers that internalize the thought-patterns of the identitarian/authoritarian/anti-meritocracy crowd, and thus ultimately reduce STEM labor costs to nothing for megacorps across all industries.
2020-06-14T16:09:53 < Cracki> those things, I think, also handle a current/power budget
2020-06-14T16:10:19 < rapha> no, i want to use the built-in USB, but with a USB-C connector.
2020-06-14T16:10:34 < Cracki> rapha, as for that shunt + opamp... that's for amplifying the tiny shunt voltage to make it easier to read, nothing more
2020-06-14T16:10:52 < Cracki> ok so what's the max current your leds CAN draw?
2020-06-14T16:11:15 < Cracki> not what they're allowed, what they are capable of
2020-06-14T16:11:52 < rapha> the leds can draw, at max, 1.2A
2020-06-14T16:12:18 < Cracki> ok then you write your firmware such that duty cycle is keeping them below 500 mA
2020-06-14T16:12:30 < Cracki> and then you hope the host is lenient about the "100 mA"
2020-06-14T16:12:32 < srk> strata: well, I agree and it's pretty bad considering their history with embrace-enhance-extinguish
2020-06-14T16:12:50 < rapha> hmm i thought USB-C could deliver much more than .5A?
2020-06-14T16:13:02 < Cracki> beyond that, you need to hear from people who've read the usb standards
2020-06-14T16:13:05 < strata> i'm now focusing all of my future self-development/self-teaching on automation of food production for ME.
2020-06-14T16:13:11 < srk> strata: ad github, they are now replacing ecosystem build around it with actions, like travis :)
2020-06-14T16:13:23 < srk> *built
2020-06-14T16:13:25 < Cracki> rapha, you're thinking of USB PD?
2020-06-14T16:13:45 < Cracki> that is an actual protocol
2020-06-14T16:13:50 < strata> imo that is the future of hardware and software dev
2020-06-14T16:13:56 < rapha> oooh
2020-06-14T16:14:13 < rapha> Cracki: and not accessible to the F303 because it's too old?
2020-06-14T16:14:22 < Cracki> a port will not just give you 3-5 amperes. that could very well be a device burning your house down
2020-06-14T16:14:25 < strata> you either gig slave for some company for minimum wage or you work for yourself and "profit" immensely by coding your independence from the corporate nanny state.
2020-06-14T16:14:38 < Cracki> the f303 does usb 2.0 full speed (12 mbit/s)
2020-06-14T16:14:43 < Cracki> that is NOT usb C
2020-06-14T16:14:55 < Cracki> usb c is the connector anyway
2020-06-14T16:14:56 < rapha> okay
2020-06-14T16:14:57 < srk> strata: this, we're joking for years that we end up with herd of sheep
2020-06-14T16:15:04 < rapha> i need to read about that USB PD thing
2020-06-14T16:15:13 < Cracki> don't if you don't have to
2020-06-14T16:15:41 < Cracki> there are stm32 that can handle USB PD for you
2020-06-14T16:15:49 < rapha> any pin-compatible with the f303?
2020-06-14T16:15:59 < Cracki> that should be the least of your worries
2020-06-14T16:16:03 < strata> srk: it's no longer a joke. i'm already trying to set up a way to raise backyard chickens while being a good neighbor.
2020-06-14T16:16:13 < srk> :))
2020-06-14T16:16:31 < strata> and with this grow zone getting crazier each year, i am looking into greenhouse stuff.
2020-06-14T16:16:36 < srk> I'm only trying to learn how to grow plants :)
2020-06-14T16:16:43 < srk> yeah, or hydroponics
2020-06-14T16:16:46 < strata> all of this stuff will need to be automated to achieve maximum efficiency.
2020-06-14T16:17:04 < Cracki> that TS100 replacement board uses USB PD and usb C to suck power. people talked about that yesterday I think
2020-06-14T16:17:24 < strata> the greenhouse heating stuff being discussed here weeks ago was interesting
2020-06-14T16:17:32 < srk> missed that
2020-06-14T16:18:02 < Cracki> laurence et all nerding out about saran wrap and keeping their greenhouse above freezing through british winters
2020-06-14T16:18:02 < srk> I've learned a lot trying to automate hydroponics so they won't die due to no RTC or bugs.. :D
2020-06-14T16:18:05 < Cracki> *et al
2020-06-14T16:18:14 < srk> haha
2020-06-14T16:18:34 < Cracki> barrels of water for thermal mass help a lot
2020-06-14T16:19:01 < Cracki> I guess if you're in the right place, don't worry about freezing temps
2020-06-14T16:19:11 < srk> I like the concept of windmils that heat water instead of turning a generator
2020-06-14T16:19:31 < srk> makes way more sense for heating purposes as the losses are quite minimal
2020-06-14T16:19:44 < Cracki> how would rotation heat water, if not through a generator creating electricity?
2020-06-14T16:19:45 < srk> and the capacity is huge..
2020-06-14T16:19:55 < Cracki> windmill driving a heat pump?
2020-06-14T16:19:57 < srk> https://www.lowtechmagazine.com/2019/02/heat-your-house-with-a-water-brake-windmill.html
2020-06-14T16:20:00 < srk> no :)
2020-06-14T16:20:12 < Cracki> braking... hm
2020-06-14T16:20:18 < srk> clever, right? :D
2020-06-14T16:20:21 < rapha> according to https://www.st.com/content/st_com/en/stm32-usb-c.html, "any stm8 or stm32" can ask for "5V-15W"
2020-06-14T16:21:17 < srk> heh, just noticed "Doubts on progress and technology"
2020-06-14T16:21:19 < Cracki> where's it say 15W
2020-06-14T16:21:31 < rapha> in that blue box
2020-06-14T16:21:34 < rapha> left of the pink box
2020-06-14T16:21:49 < Cracki> ic
2020-06-14T16:22:13 < Cracki> so they're doing the stuff through gpios, meaning you as their X-CUBE-whatever
2020-06-14T16:22:31 < Cracki> you need an usb c connector for that, and not just the usb 2.0 wires either
2020-06-14T16:22:41 < Cracki> you need access to the cc1/2 lines
2020-06-14T16:23:03 < Cracki> and that schematic involves a "TCCP01-M12"
2020-06-14T16:23:05 < englishman> I'm sure the 18 year old French intern that made that graphic knew what he was talking about
2020-06-14T16:23:14 < rapha> i'm designing the board, Cracki, so i can just hook those up
2020-06-14T16:23:15 < Cracki> I'm not sure what that chip is
2020-06-14T16:23:21 < rapha> aha
2020-06-14T16:23:24 < rapha> let's find out
2020-06-14T16:24:05 < Cracki> typo in the graphic, it's https://www.st.com/en/protection-devices/tcpp01-m12.html
2020-06-14T16:24:12 < Cracki> protection thing
2020-06-14T16:24:28 < rapha> so, better with, technically without, too
2020-06-14T16:24:41 < Cracki> not so fast
2020-06-14T16:24:46 < Cracki> the standard likely mandates protection
2020-06-14T16:24:59 < rapha> just a devboard for myself
2020-06-14T16:25:00 < Cracki> so if you go without a rubber, someone will cry raep
2020-06-14T16:25:05 < rapha> lol
2020-06-14T16:25:20 < rapha> and i want to use it with a wall wart
2020-06-14T16:25:22 < strata> i have very crude automation on my hydroponics right now
2020-06-14T16:25:23 < strata> no sensors
2020-06-14T16:25:24 < rapha> so if it smokes then let it smoke
2020-06-14T16:25:31 < Cracki> buy a fire extinguisher and a smoke alarm
2020-06-14T16:25:47 < Cracki> usb 3 wall wart?
2020-06-14T16:25:50 < Cracki> uh usb c
2020-06-14T16:25:57 < strata> no arduinos or MCUs. just a $15 off the shelf timer hooked up to the grow lights and an air pump
2020-06-14T16:25:59 < Cracki> does it promise 3 amps?
2020-06-14T16:26:01 < srk> strata: ph would be nice but expensive
2020-06-14T16:26:20 < strata> yea i have a digital ph and TDS reader
2020-06-14T16:26:28 < strata> to check manually
2020-06-14T16:26:32 < Cracki> ph sensor arduino, google says 3.26 million results
2020-06-14T16:26:41 < srk> life time?
2020-06-14T16:26:45 < Cracki> >arduion
2020-06-14T16:26:47 < Cracki> >lifetime
2020-06-14T16:26:48 < strata> donno. trash
2020-06-14T16:27:01 < srk> lifetime of one ardueon
2020-06-14T16:27:06 < strata> the "industrial" grade ones don't last very long either. like 10 years tops? that probably means 1 year because chyyyna
2020-06-14T16:27:14 < rapha> Cracki: sorry, yes, usb3 vs usb-c has me perpetually confused. usb-c was meant.
2020-06-14T16:27:16 < srk> 10 years is nice
2020-06-14T16:27:26 < rapha> Cracki: yes, it promises 3, and i just need 1.2
2020-06-14T16:27:27 < srk> spectroscopy to the rescue?
2020-06-14T16:27:31 < Cracki> wonder how long that will work https://www.dfrobot.com/product-1025.html
2020-06-14T16:27:45 < strata> srk: when i get into aquaponics, i'm going to add more sensors.
2020-06-14T16:28:03 < srk> cool, please document that somewhere :)
2020-06-14T16:28:03 < strata> hydroponics is first, so i can learn how to do it all manually and what works
2020-06-14T16:28:28 < dogukan> I have a question about C++ setup in initialization code. Actually this question is not related to any specific microcontroller so I am sorry if this is not the right place. I see that .preinit_array and .init_array sections are used to call constructors of static objects. As far as I see, these sections just hold some function pointers. What if we pass some arguments to the constructor of a static object? Where does it get the arguments from?
2020-06-14T16:28:31 < Cracki> manual ftw. when the chinese decide to stop delivering cheap electronics to the western world, we'll all die
2020-06-14T16:28:37 < srk> friend was playing with aquaponics but the equipment needed is on another level 
2020-06-14T16:28:43 < srk> pump especially
2020-06-14T16:28:47 < strata> srk: aquaponics is ez
2020-06-14T16:28:49 < rapha> i have one of those for the aquarium and the BOARD works foreer, but DONT leave the probe in water for more than an hour at a time
2020-06-14T16:29:07 < Cracki> dogukan, I'd *guess* that these arguments sit where constants sit
2020-06-14T16:29:40 < strata> srk: rather - the physical construction of aquaponics is dead simple. building up the microbiology in your grow medium and maintaining the system is where it gets complex.
2020-06-14T16:29:48 < srk> I see
2020-06-14T16:29:57 < srk> good read on aquaponics?
2020-06-14T16:30:14 < strata> yea lemme see if i can find it. there is this united nations paper that goes into great detail
2020-06-14T16:30:43 < strata> http://www.fao.org/3/a-i4021e.pdf
2020-06-14T16:30:48 < srk> ty!
2020-06-14T16:30:59 < strata> this is like an aquaponics bible
2020-06-14T16:32:29 < srk> cool
2020-06-14T16:32:44 < strata> if you already do hydroponics, transitioning into aquaponics is the next logical step imo
2020-06-14T16:32:51 < strata> especially if you have automation chops
2020-06-14T16:33:10 < srk> yup, sounds fun
2020-06-14T16:33:37 < dogukan> Cracki: I think it does something like that, however does it mean that it creates two versions of the constructor? One version that takes the arguments from somewhere like .rodata for static object constructor and another version that takes the arguments from r0, r1, r2 etc. for normal use? 
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2020-06-14T16:38:35 < catphish> i'm having a poor day, thought i'd hook up VCDS to my new car to see if it was unhappy about anything, tons of errors mostly about low voltages, tried to clear the errors, and the battery died :( turns out it's running an OEM battery from 2010
2020-06-14T16:39:11 < Steffanx> lol
2020-06-14T16:39:14 < catphish> i plugged in my battery charger with the hope of finishing the job, after a few minutes it burned out the battery charger
2020-06-14T16:39:55 < catphish> so now i have a new battery charger and a new battery on the way, and a totally useless car
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2020-06-14T16:40:41 < catphish> also, interestingly, there is a checksum error in the eeprom of the dash, no idea how i'm going to fix that, or just ignore it
2020-06-14T16:40:58 < Cracki> dogukan, I don't follow. one piece of code per constructor exists. the init stuff should be calling constructors for whatever needs constructing.
2020-06-14T16:43:15 < zyp> dogukan, Cracki, well, it could actually be either
2020-06-14T16:43:37 < dogukan> Cracki: Yes, you are right, but what if the constructor that called by the init stuff needs arguments? Since we just traverse the .init_array and call the function pointers in this array, how do we pass the arguments?
2020-06-14T16:43:50 < zyp> there's the constructor, and then there's the global initializer that'll call the constructor for the global
2020-06-14T16:44:06 < zyp> dogukan, the initializers in the .init_array takes no arguments
2020-06-14T16:45:01 < zyp> if you do something like Foo global_foo(3, 5); you'll get an initializer function like void init_asdf() { Foo(3, 5); }
2020-06-14T16:47:07 < dogukan> Ah I see now, thanks zyp and Cracki!
2020-06-14T16:54:16 < Thorn> what is .preinit_array
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2020-06-14T17:04:07 < boddax> who remember the name of that utility ..maybe 10 years ago or more to backup hd creating dvd sets?
2020-06-14T17:04:26 < aandrew> there are a few things that can do that
2020-06-14T17:04:42 < aandrew> duplicity is what I use for incremental backups and it can create dvd-sized files
2020-06-14T17:04:47 < jpa-> like, almost every dvd writing software ever
2020-06-14T17:22:11 < rapha> Cracki: "This use case describes how to exchange a USB2.0 standard A receptacle for a USB Type-C™ receptacle.As the platform is designed for USB2.0, the maximum current capacity is 500 mA. If a higher supply current isavailable in the application, the Rp resistors can be adjusted to give 1.5 A or 3 A capability."
2020-06-14T17:22:13 < rapha> (https://www.st.com/resource/en/application_note/dm00536349-usb-type-c-power-delivery-using-stm32xx-series-mcus-and-stm32xxx-series-mpus-stmicroelectronics.pdf)
2020-06-14T17:22:37 < Cracki> ic
2020-06-14T17:22:58 < Cracki> so just a bunch of resistors eh? luck
2020-06-14T17:24:25 < rapha> hmmm
2020-06-14T17:24:33 < rapha> no, i fail. that one's for a host.
2020-06-14T17:24:54 < Cracki> bad luck
2020-06-14T17:29:46 < Cracki> maybe you can actually draw 3 amps from usb c without anything special... but I cba to actually read this stuff
2020-06-14T17:48:04 < strata> so i gotta figure out how i'm going to distro power for this cyberdeck
2020-06-14T17:48:36 < strata> everything is 5V. i need 1.4A for display, 4A for rpi, and another probably 3A for the external nvme
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2020-06-14T18:00:14 < Cracki> big copper pipe
2020-06-14T18:01:04 < Cracki> whatever atx psu wiring is should be good for about 8 amps
2020-06-14T18:02:09 < rapha> Cracki: what do the specs mean when they refer to a "captive" USB-C cable?
2020-06-14T18:03:06 < rapha> oh, wait, is it one that can one one of its ends not be unplugged?
2020-06-14T18:06:31 < Cracki> really not my area of expertise
2020-06-14T18:09:20 < rapha> i'm positive on that now
2020-06-14T18:09:26 < rapha> so you're expertise just increased
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2020-06-14T18:14:46 < rapha> Cracki: in case you need to do this stuff, too, at some point, https://www.mouser.de/datasheet/2/389/tcpp01-m12-1658769.pdf is good reading!
2020-06-14T18:15:18 < Cracki> saved
2020-06-14T18:17:19 < Cracki> didn't know ST could write tech docs in decent english
2020-06-14T18:19:05 < Cracki> (typos and sloppy editing be excused)
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2020-06-14T18:35:15 < rapha> ^^
2020-06-14T18:35:26 < rapha> didn't know that that was in question
2020-06-14T18:35:36 < rapha> but then i've mostly read TI and Analog tech docs so far
2020-06-14T18:35:45 < rapha> and some of the TI stuff is really funny
2020-06-14T18:36:04 < rapha> mostly when the authors' names are Indian (pls don't let my Indian gf read this)
2020-06-14T18:36:28 < rapha> i remember this one TI AN about GND plane design that i read before reading another one by Analog
2020-06-14T18:37:12 < rapha> first i was like, this is much better-written and much more verbose while also explaining things more clearly
2020-06-14T18:37:20 < rapha> but more and more i kept having feelings of deja-vu 
2020-06-14T18:37:42 < rapha> then started comparing and at some point it was clear the TI document was a bad copy of the Analog document
2020-06-14T18:39:47 < zyp> rapha, what are you making?
2020-06-14T18:41:48 < zyp> Cracki, standard usb-c signals current capacity through one of three different pullups on the source end, they signal either 3A, 1.5A or legacy (i.e. usb2 500mA, usb3 900mA or whatever any older charging standards might allow)
2020-06-14T18:42:50 < zyp> it forms a voltage divider with the pulldown on the sink end, so you could measure the voltage to tell what the source capacity is
2020-06-14T18:43:49 < zyp> so a usb-c device can get 5V 3A without anything special
2020-06-14T18:46:55 < effractur> on usbc-usbc cables yes
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2020-06-14T18:47:45 < zyp> well, obviously, adapter cables should all be signalling legacy according to the standard, since the other end is using a legacy connector
2020-06-14T19:02:35 < Cracki> I saw stuff written about the source end doing resistors too. no mention of whether to jump through hoops to get the 3A (or whatever's promised) for USB C current sinks. thx for clarifying.
2020-06-14T19:03:42 < zyp> no hoops, source signals one out of three capabilities, sink is just supposed to determine which and keep below that
2020-06-14T19:04:13 < zyp> and in practice I bet most stuff doesn't give a fuck
2020-06-14T19:04:18 < Cracki> jlc has funny business hours. they said they're utc+8 but I see them working right now (half hour ago) which should be near midnight. their site promised 8am - 10pm
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2020-06-14T19:36:06 < rapha> zyp: a custom F303 devboard with 3x4 matrix of RGB LEDs on it
2020-06-14T19:37:34 < rapha> zyp: wait, so if i intend to use a USB-C wall wart (i.e., no endangering of any laptops, etc. happening) then it's fine to just supply the 2x22k resistors on the CC pins and forego that tcpp01-m12 thing completely?
2020-06-14T19:37:53 < dongs> wat
2020-06-14T19:38:17 < dongs> are you gonna be usb-c device or host?
2020-06-14T19:38:26 < dongs> device is 5.1k pulldowns on CC1/2, no?
2020-06-14T19:38:52 < Thorn> dongs that's "legacy"
2020-06-14T19:42:10 < rapha> dongs: 22k is "i want 15W, gimme 15W" as i understood it
2020-06-14T19:42:18 < rapha> (i'm gonna be device)
2020-06-14T19:45:32 < Cracki> 22k might be the SOURCE saying it can do something
2020-06-14T19:45:48 < Cracki> https://electronics.stackexchange.com/questions/333071/usb-type-c-configuration-necessary-for-battery-charging-only
2020-06-14T19:46:00 < Cracki> 22k up means 1.5A source
2020-06-14T19:46:13 < Cracki> the device doesn't say anything, it just senses and sucks
2020-06-14T19:46:16 < Cracki> 5.1k always
2020-06-14T19:46:23 < Cracki> (down)
2020-06-14T19:47:00 < Cracki> if that random redditor/SOer is to be believed
2020-06-14T19:50:22 < rapha> aaah
2020-06-14T19:50:26 < rapha> that way around. okay
2020-06-14T19:51:20 < rapha> that -> "A DFP must implement a Rp pull-up resistor to 5.0V or 3.3V. When a DFP to UFP connection is made, a resistor divider is formed, and the voltage at the CC pin can be measured to interpret the type of connection." ... DFP being the host and UFP being the device?
2020-06-14T19:59:20 < dongs> downstream facing port upstream facing port iirc
2020-06-14T19:59:26 < dongs> where's zyp with his usb-c knowledge
2020-06-14T20:06:39 < zyp> putting the kid to bed
2020-06-14T20:07:37 < zyp> Cracki is correct
2020-06-14T20:07:49 < Cracki> I just rephrased what you said :D
2020-06-14T20:08:01 < Cracki> (successfully *g*)
2020-06-14T20:08:02 < zyp> sink always have 5.1k pulldown, source has a choice of three pullups
2020-06-14T20:08:19 < zyp> sinks don't request, sources offer
2020-06-14T20:09:20 < zyp> and yes, DFP is host, UFP is device
2020-06-14T20:11:35 < zyp> the reason they don't simply say host and device anymore is because power is not always supplied by the host
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2020-06-14T20:39:03 < rapha> aah okay i was confused by the terminology here, thank you for clearing it up zyp 
2020-06-14T20:39:12 < rapha> soooo
2020-06-14T20:39:36 < rapha> my phone could charge my laptop, while also downloading music from the latter, theoretically?
2020-06-14T20:40:41 < zyp> yes
2020-06-14T20:41:11 < zyp> if you want a more practical use case, look at every usb-c docking hub
2020-06-14T20:41:44 < zyp> it'll provide power to the laptop, while the laptop acts as a host
2020-06-14T20:42:13 < zyp> although they can also work with power from the laptop, if no charger is connected
2020-06-14T20:42:21 < rapha> so far i only own a wallwart-style charger and one cable, and those are for a friend of my girlfriend's :P
2020-06-14T20:43:04 < rapha> as in, when she's here, so she can charge her phone, which so far is the only USB-C device in our circle of friends
2020-06-14T20:45:39 < zyp> everybody else got iphones?
2020-06-14T20:49:32 < qyx> I don't have a single usb-c cable too
2020-06-14T20:49:42 < qyx> and I don't know anyone in the family who has
2020-06-14T20:51:09 < zyp> how come?
2020-06-14T20:52:12 < jpa-> i only have A-C cables
2020-06-14T20:52:23 < zyp> that's more understandable
2020-06-14T20:52:56 < jpa-> i now have my first device with C host port but the cables are so expensive that i haven't invested yet, even though it would be sooo cool
2020-06-14T20:53:13 < rapha> no, everybody got androids that are too old to have USB-C, or straight-up old Nokias/Sony Ericssons/Siemens that don't even have USB of any kind. I have one of the Nokia Bananas and a Moto G 1st gen, gf the same. ONE friend has an iPhone (7).
2020-06-14T20:54:11 < rapha> mostly students and artisans ... the one iPhone is a doctor who's been out of medschool for only a few months now
2020-06-14T20:54:31 < rapha> i guess it's a mix of not enough money -> no priority, and general adversity towards technology
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2020-06-14T20:54:42 < zyp> people still using featurephones sounds so strange to me
2020-06-14T20:55:30 < qyx> I have the same phone the last 13 years
2020-06-14T20:55:33 < qyx> SE k550i
2020-06-14T20:56:06 < zyp> oh, I think I also had that
2020-06-14T20:56:32 < Cracki> my nexus 4 is running just fine, and even better since I upgraded from 4.4.4 to 5.1.1
2020-06-14T20:56:57 < zyp> ah, no, I had k610i
2020-06-14T20:57:06 < Cracki> if it ever dies, I think I'll look for that company that bought the nokia brand. lots of ex-nokia people got together to continue the technical excellence
2020-06-14T20:57:35 < zyp> and then I've had four more phones since that
2020-06-14T20:57:36 < Cracki> I do wish it had a better camera. these days you can have amazing optical stabilization
2020-06-14T20:57:39 < karlp> PaulFertser: thanks, I found evans, but they didn't have stock of wht I wanted, ended up ordering from wiggle, was even cheaper, and all in stock.
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2020-06-14T20:59:08 < zyp> compared to what seems to be the norm here, I don't feel I'm switching phones particularly often either
2020-06-14T21:02:56 < rapha> feature phones are nice, they give much less opportunity to people to constantly get on your nerves
2020-06-14T21:04:28 < jpa-> i was fine for years with non-feature-phone, then i got one that had maps, and it's been a sliding slope down from there
2020-06-14T21:04:42 < braindamage> my first usbc device was the switch that I bought few months ago
2020-06-14T21:05:10 < jpa-> i'm now at a point where i spent over 100 EUR on my current phone which i bought in 2017
2020-06-14T21:05:16 < PaulFertser> karlp: cool. What did you bought?
2020-06-14T21:06:50 < zyp> jpa-, woah, moneyed westerner
2020-06-14T21:06:59 < karlp> new pannier rack, my old one had snapped one leg a while ago, fine for my day bag, but no good for a baby seat
2020-06-14T21:07:17 < karlp> then I finally bought a chain cleaner thing
2020-06-14T21:07:39 < jpa-> zyp: i know.. but i need it to watch cat videos in the toilet
2020-06-14T21:07:42 < zyp> I recently bought one of the front mounted baby seats
2020-06-14T21:07:42 < karlp> and a replacement gear cable
2020-06-14T21:08:08 < jpa-> baby bike seats have felt scary to me, we use a trailer
2020-06-14T21:08:13 < karlp> zyp: yeah, my girl will outgrow that one too fast, she's already 20 months or so
2020-06-14T21:08:35 < karlp> love the trailer idea, but they're soooo pricy here, and #1 just rode her own bike+
2020-06-14T21:08:40 < zyp> I bought a secondhand trailer first, decided I didn't like it, and ordered the seat
2020-06-14T21:08:47 < karlp> but she's now on a peddal bike and going to fast for me in the pram
2020-06-14T21:08:58 < karlp> so now #2 can "keep up" with #1 
2020-06-14T21:09:05 < rapha> zyp: you don't live in what is called (in ignorance of the planet's geometry) "the west" in common parlance?
2020-06-14T21:09:23 < zyp> rapha, yes I do, it's a running joke in this channel
2020-06-14T21:09:40 < rapha> jpa-: my 2nd job is at https://www.libelle-lastenrad.de/ if you ever feel like something fancy :)
2020-06-14T21:10:01 < rapha> oh, good thing to be making jokes about. makes ppl more aware :)
2020-06-14T21:10:28 < zyp> rapha, I mean, I totally live in the west, I'm in norway
2020-06-14T21:10:30 < jpa-> i'm east of zyp, i'm safe from the insults
2020-06-14T21:11:10 < jpa-> karlp: do you bike with seat in icy conditions or only in summer?
2020-06-14T21:11:25 < karlp> don't know yet :) never did with #1,
2020-06-14T21:11:32 < Steffanx> jpa- too bad you have to look from Thorn's perspective. :P
2020-06-14T21:11:48 < karlp> and it's primarily for the next few months before #2 starts at her own preschool which is closer
2020-06-14T21:11:50 < zyp> karlp, so far main problem with the front seat is that it makes getting off the bike scary :p
2020-06-14T21:11:58 < karlp> and she'll be on her own bike soon enough 
2020-06-14T21:12:06 < karlp> but at least this summer?
2020-06-14T21:12:25 < karlp> bit of an experiment,
2020-06-14T21:12:36 < rapha> zyp: good childhood memories! :-D
2020-06-14T21:12:36 < karlp> we never biked for shopping or anything, we just walked
2020-06-14T21:12:53 < rapha> (my ass still hurts from sliding down snowy hills, building ramps and shit)
2020-06-14T21:13:10 < zyp> I haven't dared using the bike shoes with the seat on yet, not sure I will :p
2020-06-14T21:13:10 < jpa-> now that we are trying to shop less often, i often end up using the trailer for shopping even when child stays at home
2020-06-14T21:13:29 < karlp> yeah, trailer has lots of uses :) the nice ones can even be used as prams
2020-06-14T21:13:41  * karlp shrugs, we shop less, but it' sjust a drive
2020-06-14T21:14:12 < zyp> my experience is that the trailers are a lot larger than they look in photos
2020-06-14T21:14:20  * srk wants to build a cargo bike
2020-06-14T21:14:41 < jpa-> yeah, the first cheap (~100 EUR) trailer we got was way too large; the current one (~300 EUR) is nice and compact
2020-06-14T21:15:07 < jpa-> both have had the front wheel for pushing around, *so* much better for getting over piles of snow than normal prams
2020-06-14T21:15:20 < jpa-> (but of course not horizontal enough for a tiny baby)
2020-06-14T21:15:35 < zyp> the one I got also have that, but I'm not convinced
2020-06-14T21:16:13 < zyp> not much piles of snow here anyway
2020-06-14T21:17:55 < zyp> also, according to my wife we got a huge offroad kind of pram
2020-06-14T21:18:20 < zyp> … I picked it because it was small and easy to bring in the car
2020-06-14T21:19:13 < PaulFertser> karlp: btw, I made an experiment: didn't cleaned the chain anyhow and just lubed it with regular motor or transmission oil when it was emitting whistling sound. It was good for 4-5k km. Gear cables I sometimes just oil with the same lube.
2020-06-14T21:19:17 < jpa-> are you using a wearable baby carrier?
2020-06-14T21:19:42 < zyp> jpa-, that's not what I'm talking about, but we've got that too
2020-06-14T21:19:56 < jpa-> yeah i just asked out of interest
2020-06-14T21:20:08 < jpa-> as that's the nicest baby transportation method i've found :P
2020-06-14T21:21:24 < zyp> what sort are you thinking of? we got a close caboo when the kid was newborn, but she's pretty much outgrown that now
2020-06-14T21:21:49 < jpa-> we have manduca, which has worked from birth to 4 years old now
2020-06-14T21:22:13 < jpa-> getting a bit heavy though
2020-06-14T21:23:18 < zyp> we picked up a littlelife ultralight convertible before we went to japan, that thing is perfect for air travel
2020-06-14T21:23:41 < zyp> carrier that doubles as carryon luggage :)
2020-06-14T21:24:10 < jpa-> that's nice :)
2020-06-14T21:25:45 < zyp> one time I was walking down the street in japan, some guy shouted at me «hey, your backpack is open»
2020-06-14T21:25:58 < Steffanx> lol, all the ##stm32 grew up.. all the kid talk :P
2020-06-14T21:26:16 < Steffanx> wonder when tcth will join the gang.
2020-06-14T21:26:19 < zyp> Steffanx, feeling left out?
2020-06-14T21:26:42 < Steffanx> hah, no..
2020-06-14T21:26:44 < jpa-> Steffanx's gf might surprise him with a baby any day now
2020-06-14T21:26:45 < Steffanx> no kids for me anyway
2020-06-14T21:27:00 < Steffanx> ill just say it isnt mine jpa-
2020-06-14T21:27:19 < emeb> that'll go over well
2020-06-14T21:27:19 < jpa-> the recording from the webcam in your kitchen roof says otherwise
2020-06-14T21:27:27 < Cracki> call it jesus
2020-06-14T21:27:46 < Steffanx> aah, is that one yours jpa- :D
2020-06-14T21:27:51 < Steffanx> lol Cracki
2020-06-14T21:28:13 < Cracki> the original girl-on-donkey show
2020-06-14T21:29:23 < zyp> jpa-, https://bin.jvnv.net/file/06Zmj.png
2020-06-14T21:29:57 < jpa-> :)
2020-06-14T21:30:50 < PaulFertser> Attention FreeRTOS users, if you're on version prior to V10.0.0 the Cortex-M ports lack memory barriers and so will almost certainly break with -O3 -flto (and of course can break under other circumstances or with newer GCC versions). 
2020-06-14T21:35:11 < Cracki> awesome
2020-06-14T21:35:41 < emeb> lol
2020-06-14T21:36:35 < zyp> PaulFertser, is your soldering iron running freertos?
2020-06-14T21:38:45 < PaulFertser> zyp: yes
2020-06-14T21:38:55 < zyp> nice
2020-06-14T21:39:08 < PaulFertser> Longer discussion https://www.freertos.org/FreeRTOS_Support_Forum_Archive/February_2017/freertos_Memory_barriers_in_FreeRTOS_8049c367j.html
2020-06-14T21:39:56 < Laurenceb> i2c is racist
2020-06-14T21:40:03 < Laurenceb> >slave address
2020-06-14T21:41:24 < Cracki> BLACKlisted
2020-06-14T21:56:39 < Steffanx> https://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-53041884 ... tcth if you no longer want your jewish gold, you can always give it to me.
2020-06-14T22:03:27 < Cracki> >unclear how authorities will verify
2020-06-14T22:03:59 < Cracki> do they stamp numbers in those things or is that too good an idea
2020-06-14T22:04:22 < Cracki> paper money has numbers, guns have numbers (sometimes)
2020-06-14T22:05:57 < Cracki> 3 kg of gold are the volume of 2 bars of chocolate (2x 100g). handy.
2020-06-14T22:11:38 < qyx> PaulFertser: if I wanted to run openocd on a STM32 HOST, is there a less retarted way of adding support besides opening /dev/mem directly and bitbanging GPIO?
2020-06-14T22:14:06 < PaulFertser> qyx: on STM32 host running Linux?
2020-06-14T22:14:13 < zyp> qyx, sysfs gpio?
2020-06-14T22:14:45 < qyx> related, I progressed a bit https://i.imgur.com/EapykJp.png
2020-06-14T22:14:47 < qyx> PaulFertser: yes
2020-06-14T22:14:52 < qyx> zyp: thats super slow
2020-06-14T22:14:59 < zyp> well, duh
2020-06-14T22:15:03 < PaulFertser> qyx: there's a patch pending libgpiod support, worth a try too.
2020-06-14T22:16:38 < zyp> qyx, cute board
2020-06-14T22:16:44 < zyp> that was hyperbus flash, right?
2020-06-14T22:17:00 < qyx> no, qspi
2020-06-14T22:17:03 < zyp> ah
2020-06-14T22:17:05 < qyx> no hyperbus on F7 :(
2020-06-14T22:17:18 < qyx> I was tempted to use L4+ with hyperbus DRAM and flash
2020-06-14T22:17:36 < qyx> but idk hows Linux support for L4+
2020-06-14T22:22:46 < zyp> those dual parts looks cool
2020-06-14T22:23:32 < zyp> but glancing at the flash datasheet, it doesn't seem to support the narrower spi modes, despite hyperbus signals being a superset
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2020-06-14T22:25:55 < zyp> (it'd be convenient to e.g. have a fpga load a bitstream from the start of it in spi mode, and then switch to hyperbus mode)
2020-06-14T22:28:09 < qyx> actually I don't quite see the point of the whole hyperbus
2020-06-14T22:28:15 < qyx> is it meant to be used in automotive apps?
2020-06-14T22:28:24 < qyx> most of the parts is aec-q
2020-06-14T22:28:46 < zyp> apparently, the marketing stuff talks about dashboards and shit
2020-06-14T22:29:55 < zyp> as far as I can tell, the point of hyperbus is to be a compromise between spi and parallel buses
2020-06-14T22:31:01 < zyp> it's a byte-wide DDR bus with inband addressing instead of dedicated address lines
2020-06-14T22:31:41 < zyp> i.e. faster than spi, fewer pins than parallel
2020-06-14T22:33:03 < zyp> also self refreshing, like PSRAM
2020-06-14T22:33:25 < zyp> so I guess it's more a replacement for PSRAM than anything else
2020-06-14T22:34:13 < qyx> I like the idea but I fear a bit of what to expect
2020-06-14T22:34:40 < qyx> if there was a eval board I would probably get one
2020-06-14T22:34:56 < qyx> I didn't check if there is
2020-06-14T22:35:06 < zyp> I'm also not sure what exactly it'd be useful for
2020-06-14T22:35:37 < qyx> maybe a framebuffer for those huge dashboard displays
2020-06-14T22:35:51 < qyx> with flash storing pictures and stuff
2020-06-14T22:35:52 < qyx> sounds
2020-06-14T22:35:54 < zyp> I feel like 8 MB ram is a lot for bare metal, quickly too little for anything linux
2020-06-14T22:36:09 < zyp> but yeah, framebuffers or other kinds of DMA buffers
2020-06-14T22:37:01 < qyx> I am curious if I will be able to run linux on the board I am drawing
2020-06-14T22:49:47 < dogukan> I have an stm32f303k8 nucleo board. As soon as I load the program using gdb and execute the first instruction, it jumps to 0xfffffffe. What may be the reason?
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2020-06-14T22:50:08 < zyp> it doesn't jump, it goes into lockup
2020-06-14T22:50:38 < zyp> lockup is the ultimate fault escalation, when the hardfault handler itself faults
2020-06-14T22:52:02 < zyp> you might have a messed up vector table, or you might have built your code in arm mode so nothing can be executed on cortex-m
2020-06-14T22:52:14 < zyp> or you might have simply mislocated the vector table
2020-06-14T22:55:29 < zyp> I suggst doing «x/4wx 0x8000000» in gdb, what does that say?
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2020-06-14T22:56:22 < dogukan> 0x8000000:      0x20003000      0x08000189      0x08000191      0x08000191
2020-06-14T22:56:40 < zyp> okay, that looks sane
2020-06-14T22:56:55 < zyp> both reset and hardfault handlers are thumb mode, and it's in the right spot too
2020-06-14T22:57:20 < dogukan> Yes, that is why I am so confused
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2020-06-14T22:58:31 < dogukan> I objdumped the elf file and the addresses look good
2020-06-14T22:58:40 < dogukan> 08000188 <Reset_Handler>:
2020-06-14T22:58:45 < dogukan> 08000190 <Default_Handler>:
2020-06-14T22:59:16 < zyp> did you try powercycling it?
2020-06-14T22:59:46 < dogukan> Yes, I tried powercycling, erasing the flash and reflasing
2020-06-14T23:00:34 < zyp> how does the disassembly of the handlers themselves look?
2020-06-14T23:01:40 < dogukan> https://pastebin.com/0F4tgEV8
2020-06-14T23:06:22 < dogukan> when I type "load" in gdb, pc points to 0x8000188 (mov r0, #0). However, when I type "n", it locks-up
2020-06-14T23:07:01 < PaulFertser> dogukan: then type "si" instead
2020-06-14T23:07:27 < PaulFertser> dogukan: btw, how much RAM does your target have/
2020-06-14T23:09:09 < dogukan> PaulFertser: si produced the same result. The nucleo board has 12Kb ram
2020-06-14T23:10:00 < PaulFertser> dogukan: are you using OpenOCD?
2020-06-14T23:10:18 < dogukan> I am using stlink 1.6.1
2020-06-14T23:10:26 < PaulFertser> dogukan: texane stlink utility?
2020-06-14T23:11:02 < dogukan> yes, that is the one
2020-06-14T23:11:35 < PaulFertser> dogukan: sorry, I have no idea about it, I always use OpenOCD, there I'd be able to provide you more support.
2020-06-14T23:11:57 < dogukan> I can give openocd a try
2020-06-14T23:12:23 < PaulFertser> Please do, I'm here to clarify if anything's unclear.
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2020-06-14T23:19:21 < dogukan> PaulFertser: Okay I have hit the first problem :) I ran openocd -f board/st_nucleo_f3.cfg and this is the output I get https://pastebin.com/anMkC4SN
2020-06-14T23:20:10 < PaulFertser> dogukan: try with sudo for testing.
2020-06-14T23:20:47 < dogukan> I get the same error
2020-06-14T23:21:18 < PaulFertser> dogukan: is that really the board you have and are you using its onboard stlink/
2020-06-14T23:22:26 < dogukan> Yes, I use the onbard stlink. And I have this exact nucleo f3 board https://www.st.com/en/evaluation-tools/nucleo-f303k8.html
2020-06-14T23:22:28 < rapha> zyp: to get back to my poor-man's-USB-C-as-a-power-source thing, did I understand correctly that I can basically take https://i.imgur.com/Ft3YibX.png, remove the TCPP01-M12 & externals, perhaps keep D1 (the TVS), R3, R4, R5, R6, replace "power management" and "battery" with an LM1117, perhaps also keep the MOSFET (and connect its gate to one of the MCU's GPIO's) and be fine?
2020-06-14T23:23:04 < PaulFertser> dogukan: is that stlink-v2-1 or stlink-v2?
2020-06-14T23:24:00 < dogukan> PaulFertser: the webpage says ST-LINK/V2-1, is there any other way to check it?
2020-06-14T23:24:10 < PaulFertser> dogukan: lsusb will give you vid/pid
2020-06-14T23:24:37 < zyp> rapha, I guess
2020-06-14T23:25:14 < dogukan> PaulFertser: Bus 001 Device 011: ID 0483:3752 STMicroelectronics ST-LINK/V2.1
2020-06-14T23:26:56 < PaulFertser> dogukan: "New version of ST-Link/V2.1 without mass storage device"
2020-06-14T23:27:32 < zyp> rapha, essentially you can design as if you were using a microusb socket and the only changes you need to switch to usb-c are adding the 5.1k pulldowns on CC1 and CC2
2020-06-14T23:27:33 < PaulFertser> dogukan: can you please build current master branch?
2020-06-14T23:27:55 < dogukan> sure, one sec
2020-06-14T23:29:18 < PaulFertser> A developer from ST added support but it was past-0.10.0
2020-06-14T23:30:31 < Steffanx> Main branch PaulFertser . Haha
2020-06-14T23:31:06 < PaulFertser> Steffanx: how are they going to rename git itself?
2020-06-14T23:31:31 < zyp> not like there's any slaves in git in the first place
2020-06-14T23:34:06 < Cracki> "master bedroom" vs slave bedrooms obviously
2020-06-14T23:34:25 < Cracki> a master of arts, what are they gonna call that
2020-06-14T23:34:51 < Cracki> master bait
2020-06-14T23:40:17 < Steffanx> Yeah better give up youe master degree
2020-06-14T23:44:17 < dogukan> PaulFertser: Info : Listening on port 3333 for gdb connections, I think the master branch works so far, I will connect using gdb and try to run the same code again
2020-06-14T23:45:23 < dogukan> hmm interesting, it does not lockup with openocd
2020-06-14T23:46:34 < dogukan> I will use openocd then, thanks a lot PaulFertser!
2020-06-14T23:47:08 < PaulFertser> dogukan: :)
2020-06-14T23:50:16 < rapha> zyp: super, thank you!
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--- Day changed Mon Jun 15 2020
2020-06-15T00:16:06 < qyx> what connector should I use on a JTAG/SWD programmer
2020-06-15T00:22:33 -!- emeb [~ericb@ip174-73-159-221.ph.ph.cox.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving.]
2020-06-15T00:26:30 -!- emeb_mac [~ericb@ip174-73-159-221.ph.ph.cox.net] has joined ##stm32
2020-06-15T00:28:10 < qyx> STDC14 looks good
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2020-06-15T00:39:27 < Steffanx> Whats wrong with the often ussd 10 pins connector qyx?
2020-06-15T00:39:42 < Steffanx> Or is it secretly doing uart as well?
2020-06-15T00:44:43 < qyx> yes it adds uart
2020-06-15T00:45:24 < Steffanx> Ah thats not just a jtag/swd programmer then ;)
2020-06-15T00:46:47 < Cracki> st being sneaky and abusing the "STD" string of letters when it's merely "ST DC 14"
2020-06-15T00:48:29 < Steffanx> #STDLM?
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2020-06-15T00:48:53 < qyx> the qquestion is if 5V IO level is really needed
2020-06-15T00:48:58 < qyx> who the hell uses 5V ARMs
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2020-06-15T00:57:46 < karlp> PaulFertser: hrm, I've normally just put a bit of oil on the chain from time to time, but it's always super janky, so thought I'd give it a guy at cleaning and lubing, see how it goes
2020-06-15T00:58:19 < karlp> last time I didn't replace it when it stretched out a lot and ended up having to replace the rear cassette as well :) no idea how many ks I do though, 
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2020-06-15T01:00:04 < karlp> hrm, littlelife ultralight doubleing as carryon sounds neat, 
2020-06-15T01:00:30 < karlp> I've got a little life adventurer s2 that's been _excellent_ for hiking
2020-06-15T01:00:40 < karlp> has enough space in the bottom for it.
2020-06-15T01:05:00 < karlp> now, more on topic, what was I doing again?
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2020-06-15T01:52:29 < zyp> qyx, IMO STDC14 is some retarded bullshit
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2020-06-15T02:13:34 < Steffanx> Explain yourself zyp
2020-06-15T02:13:59 < Steffanx> Or are you waiting for a "whyyyyy?" ;)
2020-06-15T02:15:38 < jly> 'time well spent'
2020-06-15T02:15:39 < jly> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dog_walking
2020-06-15T02:15:40 < Steffanx> Gooday jly jly 
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2020-06-15T02:15:48 < jly> gooday fokes
2020-06-15T02:16:13 < kakimir> rubbe
2020-06-15T02:16:21 < Steffanx> Are you a Professional dog walker now, jly?
2020-06-15T02:16:25 < jly> hi akamr
2020-06-15T02:16:30 < jly> Steffanx: n
2020-06-15T02:16:40 < Steffanx> You should be
2020-06-15T02:16:45 < jly> I am a covid-19 researcher
2020-06-15T02:16:55 < kakimir> first hand experiences?
2020-06-15T02:17:16 < jly> I've concluded covid-19 was made in america when a nigger had sex with a dog
2020-06-15T02:17:27 < jly> china approves of this legitimate research
2020-06-15T02:18:07 < kakimir> it's perfect
2020-06-15T02:18:33 < kakimir> it checks all the boxes
2020-06-15T02:19:36 < kakimir> [X] murica [X] stereotypes [X] fuck dog
2020-06-15T02:20:03 < kakimir> thinktank should hire you jly
2020-06-15T02:20:44 < jly> good good
2020-06-15T02:20:57 < jly> I had some important news
2020-06-15T02:21:39 < Steffanx> Ty sir
2020-06-15T02:21:58 < kakimir> I have wireless charger in my car
2020-06-15T02:22:01 < kakimir> xiaomi
2020-06-15T02:22:07 < kakimir> very future
2020-06-15T02:22:16 < kakimir> it automatically takes my phone and holds it
2020-06-15T02:22:27 < kakimir> until I want it it releases it
2020-06-15T02:22:58 < kakimir> comes with 20V 1.65A charger
2020-06-15T02:23:06 < kakimir> :o
2020-06-15T02:23:30 < kakimir> very recommend
2020-06-15T02:26:26 < kakimir> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YUbHhxxWW-k
2020-06-15T02:26:40 < kakimir> here is sample video of operation
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2020-06-15T02:37:59 < Steffanx> Lolno, not that dutch xiaomi reviewer kakimir 
2020-06-15T02:38:45 < kakimate> lol yes
2020-06-15T02:50:36 < kakimate> he fanboy?
2020-06-15T02:51:10 < kakimate> Steffanx: did your mandatory summer holiday start yet?
2020-06-15T02:51:42 < kakimate> I see you stay up late nowdays
2020-06-15T02:51:56 < Steffanx> Noo
2020-06-15T02:52:03 < kakimate> channel is getting out of hand and it needs someone to watch over?
2020-06-15T02:52:05 < Steffanx> I just.. sleep less
2020-06-15T02:52:16 < kakimate> pro move
2020-06-15T02:52:17 < Steffanx> Im actually dealing surprisingly well with that 
2020-06-15T02:52:22 < kakimate> you know
2020-06-15T02:52:31 < kakimate> it's like millionare thing
2020-06-15T02:52:46 -!- mode/##stm32 [+o kakimir] by ChanServ
2020-06-15T02:52:50 < Steffanx> That is one problem solved
2020-06-15T02:52:51 < kakimate> very nice
2020-06-15T02:54:41 < kakimate> it's problematic though
2020-06-15T02:54:46 < Steffanx> I can go sleep now 
2020-06-15T02:54:56 < Steffanx> No, no problems
2020-06-15T02:55:01 < kakimate> because I don't really feel like kicking lurencer
2020-06-15T02:56:05 < kakimate> basically do my job as moderator
2020-06-15T02:58:08 < Steffanx> You will get over it
2020-06-15T02:58:52 < Steffanx> Good night Mr kakimir 
2020-06-15T02:59:01 < kakimate> gn
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2020-06-15T04:07:40 < upgrdman> :) https://bugs.chromium.org/p/chromium/issues/detail?id=981132
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2020-06-15T06:04:29 < upgrdman> what's the name for a "piece" of color on a palette?
2020-06-15T06:04:55 < upgrdman> like if there are 10 colors on the palette, "there are 10 $foo's." ?
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2020-06-15T07:20:00 < upgrdman_> antto, lol, figured out why my LAB color wheel looked funny. my dumbass thought LAB was a cylindrical color space, but it's cartesian. lol. LCH to the rescue.
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2020-06-15T07:53:51 < antto> yes, the proper ones are not nice in shape at all
2020-06-15T07:54:42 < antto> LCH is the one i meant yesterday, but i haven't tried it
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2020-06-15T10:41:56 < benishor> u sure it's LCH and not LHC?
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2020-06-15T12:05:18 < qyx> is spartan3 any good today?
2020-06-15T12:05:25 < qyx> still no free tools I assume
2020-06-15T12:06:27 < PaulFertser> But you can use free tools to reconfigure it.
2020-06-15T12:08:22 < qyx> with xc3sprog?
2020-06-15T12:09:04 < PaulFertser> qyx: you can play SVF back with many different tools.
2020-06-15T12:09:22 < PaulFertser> And SVF can be generated by any FPGA IDE.
2020-06-15T12:11:07 < jadew> qyx, isn't ISE free?
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2020-06-15T12:30:17 < PaulFertser> Does anyone know how to force attribute "used" for certain static global symbols so that LTO wouldn't make them .lto_priv.xxx ?
2020-06-15T12:38:34 < PaulFertser> LTO makes RTOS awareness not working sometimes because it depends on gdb being able to access the variable.
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2020-06-15T12:42:07 < srk> annotating with __attribute__ is no go?
2020-06-15T12:43:20 < PaulFertser> srk: would be cool to do that without modifying upstream freertos files.
2020-06-15T12:43:33 < srk> right, thought so
2020-06-15T12:44:55 < srk> preproc? :) what's the reason for LTO?
2020-06-15T12:45:29 < PaulFertser> srk: spent hulluva time yesterday and the day before. Found the place where adding a memory barrier helped, then search the internet only to find that it was already fixed in freertos but for whatever reason Ralim pulled only common files from the new release, not port-specific files. Will be sending him patches today. 
2020-06-15T12:45:45 < PaulFertser> srk: flash space savings
2020-06-15T12:45:45 < srk>  /o\
2020-06-15T12:45:53 < srk> how much does it save roughly?
2020-06-15T12:46:29 < PaulFertser> srk: depends on the code in question of course. Ralim firmware has it enabled it already.
2020-06-15T12:46:58 < PaulFertser> srk: btw, what would be your opinion about using ts100 as an external status display with "lcdproc"?
2020-06-15T12:47:33 < srk> like, why not but why not make a standalone one :)
2020-06-15T12:48:43 < srk> you can even FB_TFT_SSD1305 :)
2020-06-15T12:48:46 < srk> or 6
2020-06-15T12:50:09 < PaulFertser> I mean imagine it's kinda lying on a shelf as a "geek decoration" showing number of unread messages from dongs or the missed tweets from lolrance and then you need to solder it, you take it, use as designed, then put it back to see more awesome tweets where just seeing the URL is enough to decide to not follow the link?
2020-06-15T12:53:53 < srk> I see, sound fun :)
2020-06-15T12:54:39 < srk> like even feedback over USB would be cool if you could plug both USB and jack at the same time
2020-06-15T13:05:00 < PaulFertser> People complain about regular laptop cables being too stiff for comfortable soldering, adding usb to the mix doesn't sound right.
2020-06-15T13:05:17 < PaulFertser> And in any case Ralim is C + C++ + HAL, so not much fun really.
2020-06-15T13:06:16 < mawk> PaulFertser: if P = X³ - 2X² - 3X - 4, and roots are a, b, c, what is (a⁵-b⁵)/(a-b) + (b⁵-c⁵)/(b-c) + (a⁵-c⁵)/(a-c) ?
2020-06-15T13:07:25 < srk> PaulFertser: what a combo.. :| 
2020-06-15T13:08:41 < srk> PaulFertser: the type-c otter-iron version could possibly do it 
2020-06-15T13:08:52  * mawk uses that combo
2020-06-15T13:08:54 < srk> mawk: what are you doing? 
2020-06-15T13:08:56 < srk> mawk: poor you
2020-06-15T13:09:01 < mawk> :(
2020-06-15T13:09:04 < mawk> it's just a fun exercise
2020-06-15T13:09:11 < mawk> for a varying definition of fun
2020-06-15T13:09:17 < srk> exactly :D
2020-06-15T13:09:23 < PaulFertser> mawk: not fun for me, I'm too dumb for math :(
2020-06-15T13:09:30 < mawk> :(
2020-06-15T13:09:35 < mawk> you're supposed to find 183
2020-06-15T13:09:37 < mawk> very easy don't worry
2020-06-15T13:09:42 < mawk> almost
2020-06-15T13:11:20 < srk> I'm still not sure how to tackle polynomials for position interpolation, makes my head spin
2020-06-15T13:11:39 < mawk> interpolation is cool stuff
2020-06-15T13:11:46 < mawk> I wrote my final year paper on that in maths school
2020-06-15T13:11:58 < srk> cool, link? :D
2020-06-15T13:12:03 < mawk> lol it's in french
2020-06-15T13:12:09 < srk> pfff .. :D
2020-06-15T13:12:51 < mawk> interpolation means the curve passes exactly through the points you gives
2020-06-15T13:12:52 < srk> like I've studied french for 8 years during primary/secondary schools but its bad, need to work on that
2020-06-15T13:13:10 < PaulFertser> Is it true regular schools in France used to teach math basics such as algebraic fields, rings etc?
2020-06-15T13:13:14 < mawk> it's very good if the curve you're interpolating is a polynomial (because then it gives the exact polynomial), but otherwise it can go wrong
2020-06-15T13:13:18 < mawk> yes PaulFertser used to
2020-06-15T13:13:27 < mawk> at age 15 you learned about vector space and stuff
2020-06-15T13:13:31 < mawk> but now the level is below 0
2020-06-15T13:13:38 < mawk> I see it with the kids I tutor on the internet
2020-06-15T13:14:21 < mawk> I "studied" german, but I couldn't even read the newspaper
2020-06-15T13:14:58 < mawk> when interpolating, the single one trick to avoid the "going wrong" part is to interpolate at a precise set of points on your curve srk 
2020-06-15T13:15:10 < mawk> which are the points you get when you take equally spaced points on a circle, then flatten the circle
2020-06-15T13:15:23 < mawk> then the error is minimal
2020-06-15T13:15:52 < mawk> or you can just fit a polynomial to your curve, then you don't have this runaway going wrong thing, but then you're not allowed to call it interpolation
2020-06-15T13:16:04 < srk> mawk: I need it for CANOpen position interpolated mode - host needs to compute params for some higher order polynomial, like qubic bezier, send that to interpolator which then interprets that with time parameter
2020-06-15T13:16:42 < PaulFertser> mawk: was it really useful for ordinary people and real life? Or should they have better studied how to calculate "interest" for a loan or how to pay the taxes?
2020-06-15T13:17:23 < mawk> mathematical thinking is always useful in life PaulFertser I guess; at least I can totally see it helping me
2020-06-15T13:17:29 < mawk> (it didn't help me pick the right political side though)
2020-06-15T13:17:39 < srk> like I'll use a library for fitting the curves but still, too many moving parts :D
2020-06-15T13:18:01 < mawk> try to do it by hand and everything will light up in your head
2020-06-15T13:18:04 < mawk> 100% guarantee
2020-06-15T13:18:06 < srk> need to tackly it slowle, step by step
2020-06-15T13:18:12 < srk> hah, will try
2020-06-15T13:18:27 < mawk> or using matlab or whatever and plot nice curves to convice yourself that it works
2020-06-15T13:19:16 < PaulFertser> mawk: but regular schools are for regular people, do they really grasp the concept? E.g. all schools in ussr/russia teach physics but it seems most people have no idea what "torque" is, and most auto drivers think that a blocked axle differential "divides the torque 50:50".
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2020-06-15T13:39:10 < Cracki> srk, sounds like the polynomial is supposed to encode the desired motion. the simple case is "to in that direction with constant velocity", but you can add acceleration too
2020-06-15T13:39:42 < Cracki> *go in that dir...
2020-06-15T13:40:07 < srk> Cracki: yes, CANOpen IP only describes linear inerpolation but that's easy and not enough 
2020-06-15T13:40:53 < Cracki> are you supposed to implement the interpolation given points, i.e. you're the thing that moves... or are you supposed to send commanded trajectory as a polynomial for something else to execute?
2020-06-15T13:40:54 < srk> but you can structure your buffer and data as you wish using e.g. pos, velocity, accel and whatever polynomial 
2020-06-15T13:41:05 < srk> both :)
2020-06-15T13:41:08 < Cracki> fun
2020-06-15T13:41:22 < srk> yup, + kinematics :D
2020-06-15T13:41:30 < srk> but that's kind of separate
2020-06-15T13:42:27 < srk> doing both at the same time has some advantages as I don't need to fight with some black box servo controller like people who tried to add support for these to linuxCNC
2020-06-15T13:42:35 < Cracki> heh
2020-06-15T13:43:18 < Cracki> ok so cubic, means for the time between t1 and t2 and positions x1..x2, you fit a curve through t0..t3 and x0..x3
2020-06-15T13:43:48 < Cracki> and then the controller runs a fast loop and calculates position for every time step between that
2020-06-15T13:44:33 < Cracki> because figuring out the equations to calculate the time for a given position *step* (stepper motors)... for cubic is a little too much
2020-06-15T13:44:43 < srk> correct
2020-06-15T13:45:01 < PaulFertser> btw, attribute used doesn't seem to help for static data.
2020-06-15T13:45:01 < srk> interpolation time can be variable as well but most drives use fixed one
2020-06-15T13:45:10 < Cracki> x->t for quadratic (constant acceleration) is doable. that's just a sqrt
2020-06-15T13:47:19 < Cracki> heh random appnote http://academy.maxongroup.co.jp/wp-content/uploads/manual/epos/EPOS2_Application_Note_Interpolation_Position_Mode_E.pdf
2020-06-15T13:48:40 < srk> yeah, I think I saw that one
2020-06-15T13:49:09 < srk> interesting that it has T param as well so no need for fixed one
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2020-06-15T13:57:24 < Cracki> this stuff needs time synchro to not break apart
2020-06-15T13:58:09 < srk> yup, also defined in CiA, there's two types of messages to sync clock depending on the precision you need
2020-06-15T13:58:34 < Cracki> probably even something like a PLL
2020-06-15T13:58:46 < srk> and IP starts moving all axes simultaneously right after SYNC message
2020-06-15T13:59:16 < srk> iirc, soon I'll need to grok and implement all of that
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2020-06-15T14:17:49 < benishor> "FPU is not initialized, but the project is compiling for an FPU. Please initialize the FPU before use."
2020-06-15T14:17:53 < benishor> anyone can lend a hand?
2020-06-15T14:18:06 < PaulFertser> benishor: cortex-m4?
2020-06-15T14:18:16 < benishor> PaulFertser: M7
2020-06-15T14:18:29 < PaulFertser> benishor: how do you initialis the FPU?
2020-06-15T14:18:57 < benishor> I don't, I simply thought it's enough to select the proper MCU settings in cubeide
2020-06-15T14:18:59 < benishor> https://imgur.com/a/dNnIybv
2020-06-15T14:19:33 < benishor> do I need to perform some actual progamatic initialization in order to be able to use the FPU?
2020-06-15T14:19:48 < PaulFertser> Compile and linking options enable generating code for FPU.
2020-06-15T14:19:54 < mawk>  cubeide will probably generate the code you need for that
2020-06-15T14:20:04 < mawk> but yeah just use that setting
2020-06-15T14:20:05 < benishor> here's my build output https://pastebin.com/qSXj5w1A
2020-06-15T14:20:06 < mawk> and rebuild the makefile 
2020-06-15T14:20:10 < mawk> and all that
2020-06-15T14:20:15 < benishor> I don't understand the error 
2020-06-15T14:20:36 < mawk> show line 4 of main.cpp
2020-06-15T14:21:01 < mawk> benishor: 
2020-06-15T14:21:47 < benishor> mawk: https://pastebin.com/ecsSBHET
2020-06-15T14:22:03 < mawk> yeah just ignore the warning
2020-06-15T14:22:07 < mawk> delete line 4 5 6
2020-06-15T14:22:19 < benishor> so I'm right to assume it's an ass error?
2020-06-15T14:22:20 < mawk> it's just that some defines are not there
2020-06-15T14:22:26 < mawk> yeah it's just a warning anyway
2020-06-15T14:22:30 < mawk> your code still compiles
2020-06-15T14:22:33 < benishor> yeah, but I'm quite pedantic
2020-06-15T14:22:37 < benishor> and I hate warnings too
2020-06-15T14:22:54 < mawk> well
2020-06-15T14:23:00 < mawk> research how to initialize FPU
2020-06-15T14:23:04 < mawk> and delete that warning
2020-06-15T14:23:10 < mawk> the warning is there whether FPU is initialized or not anyway
2020-06-15T14:23:16 < mawk> so you need to delete the warning in any case
2020-06-15T14:25:38 < mawk> get it benishor 
2020-06-15T14:25:41 < mawk> it's a static warning
2020-06-15T14:26:08 < mawk> https://www.st.com/resource/en/application_note/dm00047230-floating-point-unit-demonstration-on-stm32-microcontrollers-stmicroelectronics.pdf
2020-06-15T14:26:36 < mawk> you need to set bits in a register
2020-06-15T14:27:05 < mawk> if you're using a RTOS you need to hook it to save the FPU frame on context switch probably
2020-06-15T14:27:06 < benishor> thanks mawk, I'll read through that doc
2020-06-15T14:27:13 < mawk> see 3.4 programmer model
2020-06-15T14:27:43 < benishor> however, those defines I think are generated at compile time
2020-06-15T14:27:54 < mawk> that's not possible
2020-06-15T14:28:01 < mawk> the code to initialize FPU is at runtime
2020-06-15T14:28:11 < mawk> the warnings are there just to nag you to remind you to implement it
2020-06-15T14:28:16 < mawk> it cannot detect wether you implemented or not
2020-06-15T14:28:30 < benishor> I meant predefined defines, with respect to the selected compiler options
2020-06-15T14:28:49 < mawk> you already selected hardware fp mode in settings so it's good
2020-06-15T14:28:57 < mawk> changing settings doesn't add or remove that warning
2020-06-15T14:29:01 < benishor> but if it's the way you say it then we're good
2020-06-15T14:29:02 < mawk> whatever code you stole already had it probably
2020-06-15T14:29:29 < benishor> for instance, __SOFT_FP from that warning is only defined  when selecting the soft fp implementation
2020-06-15T14:29:45 < mawk> the warning doesn't show with SOFT_FP
2020-06-15T14:29:52 < benishor> mawk: I stole nothing, that's me rolling my own lib. the warning came when creating an empty cubeide project
2020-06-15T14:29:58 < mawk> ah I see
2020-06-15T14:30:06 < mawk> it's #if !defined(__SOFT_FP)
2020-06-15T14:30:09 < benishor> yup
2020-06-15T14:30:15 < benishor> [14:28] <benishor> I meant predefined defines, with respect to the selected compiler options
2020-06-15T14:30:26 < mawk> yes
2020-06-15T14:30:34 < mawk> with respect to the default compiler options, then
2020-06-15T14:30:48 < benishor> that's an option, yes
2020-06-15T14:31:42 < benishor> is there a way to determine the fp implementation at runtime?
2020-06-15T14:31:54 < mawk> well you set it yes
2020-06-15T14:31:55 < mawk> in the register
2020-06-15T14:31:59 < mawk> half/full precision
2020-06-15T14:32:07 < mawk> and set the rounding mode and the NaN modes
2020-06-15T14:32:26 < mawk> which core is it ?
2020-06-15T14:32:29 < mawk> some have double precision
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2020-06-15T14:32:40 < mawk> F76 and F77 have
2020-06-15T14:33:33 < benishor> I'm running a stm32f746ng
2020-06-15T14:34:50 < benishor> I was just looking at the app note you pasted, programmers model. I would expect that initialization would be statically performed by the gcc compiler when selecting the hard fp impl. am I correct into thinking this?
2020-06-15T14:36:14 < mawk> that's only possible with code generation
2020-06-15T14:36:24 < mawk> but yes the compiler probably does it auto
2020-06-15T14:36:26 < benishor> or static initialization, no?
2020-06-15T14:36:35 < mawk> not the compiler, but the code generator I mean
2020-06-15T14:36:41 < mawk> at least for the no-RTOS case
2020-06-15T14:36:47 < mawk> in which you probably cannot use fp in exception handler
2020-06-15T14:37:27 < benishor> I'm still running in a no-rtos setup
2020-06-15T14:37:32 < benishor> so that'll have to wait
2020-06-15T14:37:48 < mawk> well look through the generated code
2020-06-15T14:37:51 < mawk> look for fpu related stuff
2020-06-15T14:37:58 < benishor> good point
2020-06-15T14:38:08 < benishor> 10x for info guys
2020-06-15T14:38:24 < mawk> CPACR is the register
2020-06-15T14:38:32 < mawk> but it's probably not named like that in the generated code
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2020-06-15T14:52:11 < karlp> heh, make -j12, but still -O0 :)
2020-06-15T14:52:58 < karlp> benishor:you're not compiling all your code with the same flagss, -mfpu=fpv5-sp-d16 -mfloat-abi=hard missing from half your build
2020-06-15T14:53:12 < karlp> nvm, I see it now.
2020-06-15T14:53:15 < karlp> oddly ordered
2020-06-15T14:53:44 < karlp> you are mixing cstd though, is that intentional?
2020-06-15T14:53:48 < karlp> (not related to your problem of course)
2020-06-15T14:54:48 < karlp> but the init you were looking for is this probably: https://github.com/libopencm3/libopencm3/blob/master/lib/stm32/f7/vector_chipset.c#L25
2020-06-15T14:55:01 < benishor> karlp: yeah, I started with a C project and then converted things to C++
2020-06-15T14:55:03 < karlp> CPACR like mawk said now, yay, one page up in scrollback
2020-06-15T14:55:24 < benishor> 10x karlp
2020-06-15T14:55:40 < benishor> I'm just curious how is pre_main() being ran
2020-06-15T14:55:48 < karlp> in libopencm3 the reset handler calls it
2020-06-15T14:55:56 < karlp> in cube, no idea, 
2020-06-15T14:56:13 < karlp> https://github.com/libopencm3/libopencm3/blob/master/lib/cm3/vector.c#L82
2020-06-15T14:57:15 < benishor> startup_stm32f746nghx.s has the reset handler it seems
2020-06-15T14:57:29 < benishor> I could probably hook it there, before main is called
2020-06-15T14:58:22 < karlp> now you have to maintain changes to that file :)
2020-06-15T14:58:22 < benishor> https://github.com/green-fox-academy/Csano97/blob/master/week-9/day-2/potention_meter/Startup/startup_stm32f746nghx.s#L113
2020-06-15T14:58:28 < benishor> yeah, shitty :)
2020-06-15T14:58:42 < karlp> you either play the game their way, or you don't, trying to mix things is always going to suck
2020-06-15T14:59:07 < karlp> in that code, it's probably actually in "SystemInit"
2020-06-15T14:59:25 < benishor> yeah, I was just looking for a reference to it
2020-06-15T14:59:29 < mawk> you can change cube's generated code
2020-06-15T14:59:31 < mawk> if you do it right
2020-06-15T14:59:34 < mawk> between the USER CODE tags
2020-06-15T14:59:35 < benishor> it's weak
2020-06-15T14:59:41 < mawk> it works
2020-06-15T14:59:43 < benishor> I can prolly simply define SystemInit() and be done with it
2020-06-15T14:59:46 < mawk> what
2020-06-15T14:59:50 < mawk> ah
2020-06-15T14:59:59 < karlp> or you can just do it in the top of main.
2020-06-15T15:00:02 < mawk> well it's weakly defined somewhere
2020-06-15T15:00:03 < benishor> I;m not using cube at all
2020-06-15T15:00:05 < mawk> yeah
2020-06-15T15:00:14 < mawk> cube's generated code does a lot of init for you
2020-06-15T15:00:16 < karlp> so why ddid you keep cube warnings?
2020-06-15T15:00:16 < mawk> you want that init
2020-06-15T15:00:17 < zyp> what is the problem here? enabling FPU before anything is using it?
2020-06-15T15:00:20 < benishor> I just use cubeIDE to generate an empty project for my platform
2020-06-15T15:00:24 < mawk> enabling it at all, zyp 
2020-06-15T15:00:25 < rajkosto> https://imgur.com/gallery/1THovca
2020-06-15T15:00:26 < benishor> and yeah, that dragged in the init
2020-06-15T15:00:42 < mawk> benishor: you at least want the clock stuff to be done by cube, gpio, and everything, right ?
2020-06-15T15:00:56 < benishor> mawk: nope, doing it all by myself
2020-06-15T15:01:08 < benishor> I just use the cube startup
2020-06-15T15:01:25 < mawk> well the cube startup is doing the clocks for instance
2020-06-15T15:01:28 < mawk> you don't do that yourself right
2020-06-15T15:01:40 < mawk> and you don't want to
2020-06-15T15:01:46 < benishor> mawk: not yet, but afaik it starts in HSE anyways and you can reconfigure at any point
2020-06-15T15:01:59 < karlp> no, but doing it in main instead of "systeminit" just makes the constructors get called while still running on defualt clock
2020-06-15T15:02:00 < karlp> no big deal
2020-06-15T15:02:03 < benishor> s/HSE/LSE
2020-06-15T15:02:04 < mawk> I doubt it starts in HSE but yes you can configure it
2020-06-15T15:02:07 < karlp> defaults to HSI :=)
2020-06-15T15:02:09 < benishor> HSI
2020-06-15T15:02:13 < benishor> crap
2020-06-15T15:02:46 < benishor> ok, so I'll have to write my own startup then
2020-06-15T15:02:51 < zyp> no
2020-06-15T15:02:52 < benishor> I just wanted to do bare metal coding
2020-06-15T15:03:17 < zyp> benishor, if you need to do some early initialization, how about using __attribute__((constructor)) ?
2020-06-15T15:03:46 < benishor> zyp: is that an annotation for a static constructor?
2020-06-15T15:03:47 < zyp> that'll let you put arbitrary functions into the .init_array, which the startup code will call for you
2020-06-15T15:04:12 < zyp> it's the same mechanism that calls constructors for C++ global object
2020-06-15T15:04:13 < zyp> s
2020-06-15T15:04:18 < mawk> in C++ you can use a constructor of a global object as well
2020-06-15T15:04:21 < mawk> (he's doing C++)
2020-06-15T15:04:24 < zyp> https://gcc.gnu.org/onlinedocs/gcc/Common-Function-Attributes.html#Common-Function-Attributes
2020-06-15T15:04:35 < mawk> but in C++ you can use [[gnu::constructor]] syntax which is very cool
2020-06-15T15:04:39 < zyp> well, yeah, but it seems pointless to declare a class if all you want is the constructor
2020-06-15T15:04:50 < mawk> something something portability
2020-06-15T15:05:06 < benishor> I didn't mean a constructor per se in the c++ sense but a static initializator
2020-06-15T15:05:40 < benishor> zyp: nice find, thanks, I didn't know about that
2020-06-15T15:05:40 < zyp> that's what __attribute__((constructor)) does
2020-06-15T15:05:46 < benishor> \o/
2020-06-15T15:06:01 < zyp> I've used it before
2020-06-15T15:06:07 < mawk> [[constructor]] in C++ for the same syntax
2020-06-15T15:06:10 < mawk> it's way prettier
2020-06-15T15:06:13 < mawk> and also a bit standardized
2020-06-15T15:06:14 < zyp> you might want to use the priority as well to put it at the top of the list
2020-06-15T15:06:50 < benishor> it's not like I'm doing anything with the fpu before main()
2020-06-15T15:07:00 < mawk> it's about semantic as well
2020-06-15T15:07:04 < mawk> and æsthetic
2020-06-15T15:07:06 < mawk> just use a onstructor
2020-06-15T15:07:11 < mawk> code is art
2020-06-15T15:07:18 < benishor> hahah
2020-06-15T15:07:21 < benishor> nice
2020-06-15T15:07:48 < benishor> thanks guys, this was a nice run
2020-06-15T15:07:50 < zyp> benishor, not until you suddenly have a global constructor that sets up some floats or something
2020-06-15T15:08:16 < mawk> you can use the max priority which is 65535 I think
2020-06-15T15:08:25 < mawk> [[constructor(65535)]] in front of your function
2020-06-15T15:08:33 < zyp> I think you'll want 0
2020-06-15T15:08:43 < zyp> I believe lower = earlier
2020-06-15T15:09:10 < mawk> ah yes you're right
2020-06-15T15:09:32 < zyp> IIRC the actual mechanism consists of putting it in a section named .init_array.<priority> and having the linker script sort it
2020-06-15T15:09:36 < mawk> yes
2020-06-15T15:09:43 < mawk> and with no number runs after all of them
2020-06-15T15:09:48 < mawk> and it's the reverse for destructor
2020-06-15T15:09:51 < mawk> 0 runs last
2020-06-15T15:10:16 < mawk> https://gcc.gnu.org/onlinedocs/gcc/Common-Function-Attributes.html#index-constructor-function-attribute
2020-06-15T15:10:55 < mawk> and the C++ syntax: https://en.cppreference.com/w/cpp/language/attributes
2020-06-15T15:10:59 < mawk> benishor ^
2020-06-15T15:12:15 < mawk> namespace { [[gnu::constructor(0)]] void setup_fp() { /*...*/ }}
2020-06-15T15:13:54 < benishor> teh lovely
2020-06-15T15:36:14 < benishor> lol @ the end of cube startup file:
2020-06-15T15:36:21 < benishor> "/************************ (C) COPYRIGHT STMicroelectonics *****END OF FILE****/"
2020-06-15T15:36:45 < benishor> great, it's copyrighted to stmicroeleCTOnics
2020-06-15T15:37:01 < benishor> someone was too hungry and ate an 'r'
2020-06-15T15:40:04 < Thorn> I need an ultra low power boost that disconnects load from Vin when enable is 0
2020-06-15T15:40:54 < Thorn> TPS61220 goes into bypass mode (through the body diode no less) when enable is off
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2020-06-15T16:03:06 < PaulFertser> srk: https://github.com/Ralim/ts100/pull/655
2020-06-15T16:04:28 < srk> PaulFertser: <3
2020-06-15T16:05:11 < srk> will test
2020-06-15T16:05:26 < PaulFertser> have you tried SWD "via USB" on your hw yet?
2020-06-15T16:05:39 < srk> not yet, fighting with gcode interpreter :)
2020-06-15T16:05:57 < PaulFertser> Using 128k flash is cool because one can build without LTO for easier debugging and working RTOS awareness.
2020-06-15T16:06:16 < srk> indeed, and it can probably fit some features as well
2020-06-15T16:06:21 < srk> fun features
2020-06-15T16:06:24 < PaulFertser> Also, it's mandatory for re-introducing USB support to main firmware if a decent usecase is found.
2020-06-15T16:07:04 < srk> feedback would be nice, would allow logging and more tuning
2020-06-15T16:07:19 < benishor> speaking of which, any good articles/tutorials on understanding usb support?
2020-06-15T16:07:23 < srk> mm, shouldn't be that hard
2020-06-15T16:07:52 < srk> benishor: https://vivonomicon.com/category/stm32_baremetal_examples/
2020-06-15T16:07:56 < benishor> usb is such a black box to me right now and I'd like to clear up some ideas
2020-06-15T16:07:59 < benishor> srk: 10x
2020-06-15T16:08:32 < PaulFertser> Haha, I thought just about everything about HAL is unreasonably hard. And anything more complex than trivial (e.g. Ethernet or USB) is not only hard but also buggy.
2020-06-15T16:08:36 < srk> there is/was detailed USB writeup somewhere
2020-06-15T16:09:00 < PaulFertser> http://www.usbmadesimple.co.uk/
2020-06-15T16:09:12 < benishor> srk: I don't seem to find any usb writeup
2020-06-15T16:09:15 < srk> nice
2020-06-15T16:09:24 < benishor> thanks PaulFertser
2020-06-15T16:09:27 < srk> benishor: trying to find it, maybe it's another blog, sec
2020-06-15T16:09:55 < benishor> PaulFertser: that looks like what I want, a top down approach
2020-06-15T16:09:56 < PaulFertser> benishor: https://www.beyondlogic.org/usbnutshell/usb1.shtml <- better
2020-06-15T16:10:08 < srk> benishor: oh indeed http://kevincuzner.com/2018/01/29/bare-metal-stm32-writing-a-usb-driver/
2020-06-15T16:10:13 -!- jsoft [~jsoft@unaffiliated/jsoft] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds]
2020-06-15T16:10:20  * benishor starts bookmarking things for reading
2020-06-15T16:10:25 < benishor> thanks guys
2020-06-15T16:11:15 < srk> when I wanted to start writing safe usb stack the page wasn't loading and I wasn't able to find it anywhere else except for github repo code :D
2020-06-15T16:26:59 < karlp> benishor: what does this "10x" mean when you type it?
2020-06-15T16:29:03 < jadew> it means thanks
2020-06-15T16:29:34 < jadew> tenx
2020-06-15T16:31:54 -!- Jak_o_Shadows [~Jak@unaffiliated/jak-o-shadows/x-0479135] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds]
2020-06-15T16:34:47 < benishor> karlp: yeah, thanks
2020-06-15T16:34:57 < benishor> old net slang
2020-06-15T16:35:40 < jadew> last century leet talk
2020-06-15T16:36:03 < karlp> not one I remember, but ok, 10x then :)
2020-06-15T16:36:37 < benishor> 1337 k1d skr1pt0r!!11
2020-06-15T16:36:40 < jadew> then then then then then then then then then then?
2020-06-15T16:42:09 < Cracki> why have people stopped just saying https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FWkJ86JqlPA
2020-06-15T16:43:15 < Cracki> much thx https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CvipzurlCK0
2020-06-15T16:44:23 < benishor> creepiest sound ever
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2020-06-15T17:19:46 < mawk> (a+b+c)^4 = -3(a^4 + b^4 + c^4) + 4(a^3 + b^3 + c^3)(a + b + c) + 6((ab)^2 + (ac)^2 + (bc)^2) + 12abc(a + b + c)
2020-06-15T17:19:51 < mawk> isn't that super cute
2020-06-15T17:20:11 < mawk> it factorizes so nicely
2020-06-15T17:26:43 < karlp> did you change your drugs or something?
2020-06-15T17:35:37 < mawk> you don't think it's cute ?
2020-06-15T17:36:22 < bitmask> nice, saved $50 from the ali sale
2020-06-15T17:36:27 < bitmask> actually more
2020-06-15T17:36:31 < bitmask> closer to 70
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2020-06-15T17:52:00 < Steffanx> Lol youre evil, karlp
2020-06-15T17:52:48 < Steffanx> He's on math you know..
2020-06-15T17:55:06 < strata> mawk: mathhead. lemme guess you probably live in a trailor covered in fractal graffiti
2020-06-15T17:56:12 < strata> <mawk> jessie. It's time to calculate.
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2020-06-15T18:27:21 < Thorn> >Müller and Mueller method
2020-06-15T18:50:35 < rmaw> anyone shipped a simple product in Europe and done CE certification on it
2020-06-15T18:50:52 < rmaw> basically something containing a buck regulator
2020-06-15T18:51:17 < rmaw> wondering if its worth getting EMC compliance testing done on it
2020-06-15T18:51:26 < rmaw> or just self certifying and hoping its ok
2020-06-15T18:51:30 < LoneElf> PaulFertser, so it seems that after switching to the Dual FreeRTOS project included in the STM32CubeH7 example package, all of my boot and programming problems seem to have disappeared... Which is nice. Would have been cool to understand what was gong on... But at least everything is working.
2020-06-15T18:52:43 < LoneElf> Does anybody know if CubeMX generated code generally plays well with code from STM32Cube example packages?
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2020-06-15T19:03:16 < Steffanx> You cannot trust stm32cubeXX ever. It doesn't even play well with itself. When it generates code that does not compile
2020-06-15T19:09:16 < zyp> Steffanx, what does this mean? https://www.gls-info.nl/tracking/ttlink?NDOC=56420039584590&NVRL=56420039&DATUM=20200608&LANG=EN&SHIPMENT=1&TYPE=TT&CHK=355A7A56EE6BFEEE4E784B2DCB9258F8
2020-06-15T19:09:23 < zyp> «The parcel has been delivered at a post office.» very useful
2020-06-15T19:11:13 < zyp> oh
2020-06-15T19:11:48 < zyp> https://sporing.posten.no/sporing/00757007295307269700?lang=en <- it's actually at my local post office, had to fucking dig to find that tracking number
2020-06-15T19:12:09 < Steffanx> Hah.
2020-06-15T19:13:50 < Steffanx> Lol at how your url says lang=en while its all in norwegianish
2020-06-15T19:14:46 < bitmask> why are ali prices cheaper on the app
2020-06-15T19:17:25 < Cracki> rmaw, doesn't CE mean whoever slapped it on the product is liable for any damage resulting from malfunction?
2020-06-15T19:19:13 < Cracki> guess not. seems to include some regulations one should be aware of...
2020-06-15T19:20:57 < karlp> self declaring means you're liable for some amount of claims, but only if demonstrated to not comply, 
2020-06-15T19:21:28 < karlp> (good luck thinking that the test company would take that liability on themselves either htough, hahah)
2020-06-15T19:23:57 < englishman> lol rajkosto
2020-06-15T19:39:18 < strata> bitmask: no adblock in the app
2020-06-15T19:39:37 < strata> bitmask: the app has more permissions to gather data
2020-06-15T19:39:42 < strata> you get a discount for that
2020-06-15T19:39:42 < bitmask> wow
2020-06-15T19:39:56 < bitmask> well I just add stuff to my cart on my pc and checkout with the app
2020-06-15T19:42:26 < bitmask> I wish it wasnt gonna take 2+ months for me to get these packages, I wanna build my new printer
2020-06-15T19:48:07 < srk> which one?
2020-06-15T19:49:14 < bitmask> AM8 BLV
2020-06-15T19:49:48 < bitmask> just a generic alu extrusion frame (prusa clone) with mgn12 rails
2020-06-15T19:49:57 < srk> boring :D
2020-06-15T19:50:11 < bitmask> I dont have room for the printer I want to build, so this is a good stepping stone
2020-06-15T19:50:24 < srk> build railcore2 or something else non-bed-flinger like
2020-06-15T19:50:25 < bitmask> and will be much better than my current acrylic frame
2020-06-15T19:50:34 < bitmask> railcore2 is the one I was talking about
2020-06-15T19:50:44 < bitmask> I dont have room for it though
2020-06-15T19:51:04 < srk> for sure (rigidity), people here build rebel II
2020-06-15T19:51:34 < bitmask> my acrylic frame + upgrades isnt even that bad, the am8 blv will be plenty fine
2020-06-15T19:51:44 < srk> I'm trying to fix my kossel mini 
2020-06-15T19:51:50 < bitmask> is that a delta?
2020-06-15T19:51:59 < srk> so I can break it again with my own electronics, yeah
2020-06-15T19:52:05 < bitmask> yuck
2020-06-15T19:52:16 < benishor> soooo .. if I want to access the fpu registers on my own, where do I find a reference to their addresses?
2020-06-15T19:52:52 < bitmask> I cant wait to try trinamic stepper drivers
2020-06-15T19:53:04 < benishor> stm32f74xx reference manual has no mention of CPACR say
2020-06-15T19:53:08 < srk> bitmask: cortex-m reference or svd files
2020-06-15T19:53:10 < bitmask> the duet2 wifi clone will be a nice upgrade by itself
2020-06-15T19:53:11 < srk> benishor: ^
2020-06-15T19:53:15 < srk> fuck :D
2020-06-15T19:53:50 < srk> bitmask: I don't find them that appealing, can it do feedback at least? :)
2020-06-15T19:54:29 < srk> or are they in the stupid stepstick form factor
2020-06-15T19:54:43 < bitmask> theres sensorless endstops so I guess?
2020-06-15T19:55:50 < bitmask> i dont know if the duet2 can read it though
2020-06-15T19:56:54 < srk> at least via interrupt pin I guess
2020-06-15T19:57:20 < bitmask> just being more quiet makes it appealing to me
2020-06-15T19:58:25 < bitmask> I can't even adjust the motor current on the board I have now so I couldn't switch to the 400 step/rev motors I have
2020-06-15T19:58:34 < srk> StealthChop^TM "magic"
2020-06-15T19:58:56 < srk> w00t, what kind of board is that
2020-06-15T19:59:30 < bitmask> the stock anet board
2020-06-15T19:59:39 < bitmask> a4998 or whatever driers
2020-06-15T19:59:40 < srk> not even trimmers?
2020-06-15T19:59:46 < bitmask> only for Z which doesnt even matter
2020-06-15T19:59:51 < srk> lol
2020-06-15T20:00:23 < bitmask> so its a very nice upgrade even if its still a bed flinger
2020-06-15T20:00:32 < PaulFertser> Isn't that trimpots controlling all the currents?
2020-06-15T20:00:42 < bitmask> just z
2020-06-15T20:01:05 < srk> well you can get a decent printer out of most chinese ones by replacing hotend, extruder and control board
2020-06-15T20:01:06 < bitmask> because its driving two motors off the same driver I believe
2020-06-15T20:01:29 < PaulFertser> Heh, indeed
2020-06-15T20:01:29 < bitmask> the only thing from my current printer is my titan aero
2020-06-15T20:01:45 < bitmask> everything else is getting replaced
2020-06-15T20:01:50 < srk> https://www.trinamic.com/support/eval-kits/details/silentstepstick/ trimpots everywhere /o\ hope you can adjust via SPI as well :D
2020-06-15T20:01:53 < PaulFertser> bitmask: but those others are 0805 dividers, surely you can change them at will?
2020-06-15T20:02:12 < bitmask> yea you can desolder resistors and set it 
2020-06-15T20:02:24 < PaulFertser> Or solder another on top
2020-06-15T20:02:39 < srk> or add digipot :D
2020-06-15T20:02:58 < bitmask> I just didnt find it worth it, the motors I have wouldnt fit so Id have to reprint structural parts and whatnot, I just figured id wait until I build a new printer, which is now
2020-06-15T20:03:00 < srk> best thing about smoothieboard and rambo
2020-06-15T20:03:34 < srk> no need for ceramic screwdriver :D
2020-06-15T20:03:42 < bitmask> i like the duet2 wifi better than smoothieboard, I dont remember why but thats why i went with it
2020-06-15T20:04:12 < srk> I don't know anything about it, kinda stopped following these developments
2020-06-15T20:04:20 < srk> what fw does it run?
2020-06-15T20:04:24 < bitmask> reprapfw
2020-06-15T20:05:25 < srk> like klipper is interesting but kind-of a hack
2020-06-15T20:05:32 < bitmask> I use klipper now
2020-06-15T20:08:53 < srk> mad, this is still growing https://github.com/KevinOConnor/klipper/pull/2030
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2020-06-15T20:11:48 < Mangy_Dog> aghhhhhhhh i managed to crack the touch panel glass on the display when tightning it down... but heres a little peak at the controls... https://youtu.be/WkxVvzwWHKw no actual control circuitry yet still waiting for SSR and thermocoupler... and still need to actually properly write the heating function. but its getting there. Some of the button misses are actually strange serial errors, ive 
2020-06-15T20:11:48 < Mangy_Dog> not been able to fix it. Nor can i write error correcting code to resend failed packets :/ limitation of the nextion hardware on the display
2020-06-15T20:12:36 < srk> neat!
2020-06-15T20:13:09 < srk> the one we've built requires canopen master in form of stm32f4 disco connected to computer.. :D
2020-06-15T20:13:19 < Mangy_Dog> heh
2020-06-15T20:13:24 < srk> dogfooding ;)
2020-06-15T20:13:30 < bitmask> The TMC2660 provides stallGuard2 high-resolution load measurement for determining the mechanical load on the motor by measuring the back EMF. In addition to detecting when a motor stalls, this feature can be used for homing to a mechanical stop without a limit switch or proximity detector. The coolStep power-saving mechanism uses stallGuard2 to reduce the motor current to the minimum motor current required to meet the actual load
2020-06-15T20:13:30 < bitmask>  placed on the motor.
2020-06-15T20:17:17 < srk> http://48.io/~rmarko/random/2020-06-15-181908_1920x1080_scrot.png
2020-06-15T20:17:30 < srk> yet another gcode viewer in the workz
2020-06-15T20:28:11 < benishor> ok, so I finally managed to get the FPU working as needed
2020-06-15T20:28:17 < benishor> notes for further reference: 
2020-06-15T20:28:24 < benishor> 1) SystemInit needs C linkage
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2020-06-15T20:28:46 < benishor> the programming manual https://www.st.com/resource/en/programming_manual/dm00237416-stm32f7-series-and-stm32h7-series-cortexm7-processor-programming-manual-stmicroelectronics.pdf
2020-06-15T20:28:53 < benishor> contains the fpu registers
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2020-06-15T21:01:27 < kakimir> hello evening pump
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2020-06-15T21:25:34 < Steffanx> gooday mr sir kakimir
2020-06-15T21:28:06 < qyx> 4L ismuch easier than 2L
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2020-06-15T21:37:05 < qyx> https://iot.telekom.com/en/connectivity/business-smart-connect/lpwa-tariff-details
2020-06-15T21:37:11 < qyx> they may .. themselves
2020-06-15T21:37:21 < qyx> 6MB for 8€
2020-06-15T21:38:54 < qyx> so 100kB/mo for 0.14€/mo
2020-06-15T21:39:30 < qyx> not even possible to do OTA
2020-06-15T21:40:48 < specing> it;'s a ripoff XD
2020-06-15T21:41:30 < specing> qyx: don't worry, starlink will save you
2020-06-15T21:43:58 -!- logicp [~logicp@otwaon1073w-grc-07-184-144-69-171.dsl.bell.ca] has joined ##stm32
2020-06-15T21:44:49 < Cracki> starlink is infrastructure for cyborgs
2020-06-15T21:45:17 < Cracki> everything he does has a future purpose
2020-06-15T21:50:58 < zyp> qyx, and then 6L is harder again
2020-06-15T21:51:40 < qyx> why
2020-06-15T21:51:56 < zyp> because of the complexity you need to justify 6L :p
2020-06-15T21:52:06 < qyx> oh
2020-06-15T21:54:09 < zyp> I'm mostly joking, but with the stuff I'm working on I keep worrying about managing to fit the power routing in the two inner layers
2020-06-15T21:55:23 < zyp> mostly because I have a bunch of rails and a bunch of stuff for each rail all over the place
2020-06-15T21:56:33 < zyp> lots of stuff using V3.3 all over the board, VCORE goes to center of fpga, VMEM goes to points both on the left and right side, as do VAUX
2020-06-15T21:56:55 < zyp> so it's kinda like an onion
2020-06-15T22:03:30 < qyx> onion routing
2020-06-15T22:06:50 < qyx> https://i.imgur.com/Gws1SFf.png
2020-06-15T22:08:24 < zyp> https://bin.jvnv.net/file/o1Ud6.png <- here's some of it
2020-06-15T22:08:42 < zyp> not including the serdes supplies or the ddr3 vref
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2020-06-15T22:11:27 < qyx> meh
2020-06-15T23:02:57 -!- bvernoux [~Ben@88.120.152.126] has quit [Quit: Leaving]
2020-06-15T23:12:21 < qyx> https://i.imgur.com/cH6YftS.png
2020-06-15T23:12:26 < qyx> pulled up with a diode?
2020-06-15T23:14:40 < Cracki> not pullup, protection
2020-06-15T23:14:45 < Cracki> you mean the rightmost diode eh
2020-06-15T23:14:52 < qyx> no, I mean pullup
2020-06-15T23:14:56 < qyx> it is written in the text
2020-06-15T23:15:02 < Cracki> huh, that diode is pointing a funny way
2020-06-15T23:15:13 < Cracki> I see what you mean
2020-06-15T23:15:30 < qyx> basically the n-mos would short VDD to ground using the diode
2020-06-15T23:15:36 < Cracki> I wouldn't call that a "pullup" but supply
2020-06-15T23:16:09 < Cracki> they say "esd protection diode"
2020-06-15T23:16:21 < qyx> how is the module even supposed to detect if the thing was eternally pulled low
2020-06-15T23:16:34 < qyx> *externally
2020-06-15T23:16:39 < Cracki> or do they mean that >S< diode thing to the left of the pwrkey node
2020-06-15T23:16:57 < qyx> The PWRKEY pin has been pulled up with a diode to 1.8V internally, so it does not need to be
2020-06-15T23:16:58 < Cracki> the 1k series would limit current
2020-06-15T23:17:00 < qyx> pulled up externally.
2020-06-15T23:17:07 < qyx> yes, hence I am curious
2020-06-15T23:17:21 < Cracki> I say this is their way of protecting vdd from ESD
2020-06-15T23:17:42 < Cracki> unless you can tell me what that >S< shaped double diode thing to the left of the pwrkey node is
2020-06-15T23:17:56 < qyx> that one doesn't interest me
2020-06-15T23:18:04 < qyx> the internal one does
2020-06-15T23:18:30 < Cracki> ah, that double thing is the TVS diode
2020-06-15T23:18:43 < Cracki> look I need to parse this, I'm not fluent in circus diagrams
2020-06-15T23:18:58 < qyx> thats indeed a curcus
2020-06-15T23:19:03 < qyx> *circus
2020-06-15T23:19:39 < Cracki> only reason I can think of to put a diode there, instead of a plain wire, is to prevent current flow back into vdd
2020-06-15T23:20:06 < Cracki> AND to drop voltage down from vdd's 1.8v to something like... 0.8v?
2020-06-15T23:20:22 < Cracki> they do say 0.8v there
2020-06-15T23:20:27 < Cracki> so maybe it's supposed to drop 1.0v
2020-06-15T23:24:44 < Cracki> I can't make sense of that 1k series. if you pull down on the outside, you get... 0.8 mA current flowing, and the wire going to "power on/off logic" should be at 0.8v
2020-06-15T23:25:05 < Cracki> if you don't, they claim it's idling at 0.8v so it's again 0.8v on the power logic
2020-06-15T23:25:31 < Cracki> their diagram sucks
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--- Day changed Tue Jun 16 2020
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2020-06-16T00:50:06 < karlp> qyx: as far as I can trell, any "m2m" plan  is wildly ridiculous, but "allows wide deployment"
2020-06-16T00:50:22 < karlp> I can only see it being viable to have sims for every market with plain old ipad data plans.
2020-06-16T00:50:50 < karlp> absolutely insane what some of these people think they can charge for mobile data jhust because it's a machine instead of youtube
2020-06-16T00:52:03 -!- kakitron [b23796d3@178-55-150-211.bb.dnainternet.fi] has joined ##stm32
2020-06-16T00:52:37 < karlp> ordered from wiggle saturday night, sms from dhl expected delivery tomorrow afternoon.
2020-06-16T00:52:47 < karlp> this is the best, cheapest shipping I thik I've ever had to iceland
2020-06-16T00:53:23 < kakitron> Steffanx: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SOsGNzYTUwg
2020-06-16T00:53:27 < kakitron> musics
2020-06-16T00:53:44 < kakitron> 1990
2020-06-16T00:55:13 < Steffanx>  Hah, the least shitties you've posted for a while. Good job kakitron  :P
2020-06-16T00:55:19 < Steffanx> Skittish.
2020-06-16T00:55:22 < Steffanx> Lol
2020-06-16T00:55:27 < Steffanx> Typo a typo correction
2020-06-16T00:55:32 < Steffanx> Shittiest 
2020-06-16T00:57:13 < qyx> karlp: yeah but I can't get a non-m2m plan for a low power modem
2020-06-16T00:57:42 < qyx> if I can afford feeding a LTE cat4 modem, I would pay 2€ per 1GB
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2020-06-16T01:00:40 < karlp> yeah,m lte-cat1 or cat4 is only stuff I'm looking at.
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2020-06-16T01:05:32 < karlp> heh, https://wiki.seeedstudio.com/Software-FreeRTOS/ freertos for arduino
2020-06-16T01:08:18 < kakitron> arduino on freertos on arduino
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2020-06-16T01:15:56 < Cracki> those 328p only have 2k ram and no stack for interrupts. it's rather tight but perfectly doable.
2020-06-16T01:17:40 < Cracki> was about to wonder how they got printf threadsafe without wasting ram on reent structures but Serial.println is dumb, may not even have static variables
2020-06-16T01:17:53 < PaulFertser> I was using FreeRTOS on atmega128p and it was quite nice. 4k is not 2k but close.
2020-06-16T01:18:09 < Cracki> 128A here, same
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2020-06-16T01:18:28 < Mangy_Dog> one of the reasons i use that schedular
2020-06-16T01:18:30 < Mangy_Dog> library
2020-06-16T01:18:41 < Mangy_Dog> arduinothread was it?
2020-06-16T01:18:57 < Cracki> my stuff on the atmega couldn't have been done without an RTOS. they always want everything with no regard for complexity
2020-06-16T01:19:28 < Mangy_Dog> i have no issue with using them for the most part
2020-06-16T01:19:31 < Mangy_Dog> as long as they work :p
2020-06-16T01:19:40 < Mangy_Dog> i prefer threaded programming
2020-06-16T01:19:43 < Cracki> they=customer
2020-06-16T01:19:50 < Mangy_Dog> its easier than straight forward procedural
2020-06-16T01:19:57 < Cracki> wat do you mean
2020-06-16T01:20:19 < Cracki> I needed tasks/threads *because* straight forward procedural was easier than splitting things into "tiny" time slices manually
2020-06-16T01:20:23 < Mangy_Dog> well with a procedural you have to take lots more into account... esp for none blocking code
2020-06-16T01:20:35 < Cracki> you can write code that sleeps, blocks,... and it's readable
2020-06-16T01:20:42 < Cracki> dunno what you mean by procedural
2020-06-16T01:20:51 < Cracki> apparently not the usual meaning
2020-06-16T01:20:53 < Mangy_Dog> well yeah with propper thread control you can run your threads... 
2020-06-16T01:21:04 < Mangy_Dog> no need to worry if the code will block
2020-06-16T01:21:13 < Mangy_Dog> (though that doesnt work with arduinothread library)
2020-06-16T01:21:55 < Mangy_Dog> for me i mean... basic line by line exicution
2020-06-16T01:22:07 < Mangy_Dog> everything in the loop or main section
2020-06-16T01:22:10 < zyp> multithreading is a good solution to some issues, but also gives you the potential for a whole lot of new ones
2020-06-16T01:22:12 < Mangy_Dog> or connected to it at least
2020-06-16T01:22:39 < Mangy_Dog> at least with threadding or scheduled threads, it can free you up
2020-06-16T01:22:52 < Cracki> iirc the issues I had were about printf not being reentrant, which sometimes crapped lots of shit on serial
2020-06-16T01:22:53 < Mangy_Dog> and yes does intruduce desync things that you need to keep track of
2020-06-16T01:23:02 < Cracki> and I couldn't be bothered to figure out how to get it reentrant
2020-06-16T01:23:14 < Cracki> but that was about it
2020-06-16T01:23:31 < zyp> reentrancy, race conditions, scheduling
2020-06-16T01:23:32 < Cracki> the rest was battling with "business logic" growing like a jungle
2020-06-16T01:23:56 < Cracki> I hired a cop to deal with the "race conditions"
2020-06-16T01:24:07 < Mangy_Dog> scrum? agile?
2020-06-16T01:24:17 < Cracki> .357
2020-06-16T01:24:27 < Mangy_Dog> i think i finally have a basic understanding of what agile is
2020-06-16T01:24:33 < Mangy_Dog> scrum... not a sodding clue 
2020-06-16T01:24:34 < Cracki> yes it means micromanaging
2020-06-16T01:24:46 < Cracki> scrum is "run and stop thinking"
2020-06-16T01:24:56 < Cracki> agile is "you can't sit down and take a breath"
2020-06-16T01:25:04 < Mangy_Dog> and i really hate it when employment agentcies take scrum and agile as a make or break thing when applying to jobs
2020-06-16T01:25:11 < Cracki> agile is also "requirements change every hour, deal with it"
2020-06-16T01:25:21 < Cracki> if they want it, it's a shit job
2020-06-16T01:25:26 < Cracki> it's that simple
2020-06-16T01:25:37 < Mangy_Dog> well it seems every single embedded job ou tthere asks for it
2020-06-16T01:25:48 < Mangy_Dog> and i really do mean EVERY SINGLE ONE
2020-06-16T01:25:54 < Mangy_Dog> at least in this region
2020-06-16T01:25:56 < Cracki> no self respecting engineer would tolerate being scrummed or agiled
2020-06-16T01:26:01 < Mangy_Dog> norfolk and cambridge
2020-06-16T01:26:04 < zyp> heh
2020-06-16T01:26:07 < Cracki> they pull that with programmers because they think programmers need discipline
2020-06-16T01:26:19 < Cracki> they can ask, tell them no
2020-06-16T01:26:30 < oz4ga> I'veagile is a new bullshit word for flexible and open to change, but misused to meen micro-pico-nano-management
2020-06-16T01:26:35 < Cracki> if they asked for a blowjob, would you agree
2020-06-16T01:26:41 < zyp> I don't think scrum is necessarily bad
2020-06-16T01:26:50 < Cracki> scrum is a sports metaphor
2020-06-16T01:26:57 < Cracki> mind work isn't handegg
2020-06-16T01:27:00 < Mangy_Dog> the bj? depends
2020-06-16T01:27:06 < Mangy_Dog> im not cheap!
2020-06-16T01:27:13 < Mangy_Dog> :>
2020-06-16T01:27:35 < Cracki> imagine a Harvey Weinstein telling you to swallow it
2020-06-16T01:27:51 < Mangy_Dog> they would have to pay me a lot... and i mean A LOT
2020-06-16T01:27:52 < zyp> one of my former employers were doing scrum, I recall it worked reasonably well except for that time I got a project leader that didn't understand it
2020-06-16T01:27:52 < Cracki> the potted plant weeps silently
2020-06-16T01:28:26 < Cracki> it only works precisely IF you have a set of people that make anything work
2020-06-16T01:28:31 < Cracki> it works despite itself
2020-06-16T01:28:53 < Cracki> it's like wearing a suit
2020-06-16T01:29:17 < Cracki> doesn't make you competent, just lets them slap a bigger price tag on your ass
2020-06-16T01:29:32 < Cracki> in fact, it lets you dress up incompetence
2020-06-16T01:30:00 < Cracki> scrum is their attempt to take "blub programmers" and mold them into something usable and uniform
2020-06-16T01:30:05 < Mangy_Dog> btw did i already spam this here? https://youtu.be/WkxVvzwWHKw
2020-06-16T01:30:08 < Cracki> they're IQ deniers
2020-06-16T01:30:33 < Cracki> I hear birds
2020-06-16T01:30:39 < Mangy_Dog> yeah doors open
2020-06-16T01:30:42 < Mangy_Dog> from the garden
2020-06-16T01:30:46 < Cracki> I've been recording the backyard for a few days now, for the bird song
2020-06-16T01:30:54 < Mangy_Dog> :)
2020-06-16T01:31:14 < Cracki> canning it for winter, when no sound rouses me and the sun doesn't ever rise
2020-06-16T01:31:26 < Mangy_Dog> oh you Up north?
2020-06-16T01:31:31 < Cracki> 51 degrees, so no
2020-06-16T01:32:26 < Cracki> but it's fucking me up anyway. cloudy most of the time, rainy, humid, cold, the whole nation is insane from decades of incessant brainwashing
2020-06-16T01:32:30 < zyp> Cracki, IME scrum is useful for keeping a team of developers in sync, pointless if you're a one man team
2020-06-16T01:32:44 < Cracki> so they gave team comms a name
2020-06-16T01:32:52 < Mangy_Dog> i really wish i could make some error correcting code between the nextion and mcu
2020-06-16T01:33:10 < Mangy_Dog> roughly 1 out of 10 button presses get a serial packet error
2020-06-16T01:33:16 < Mangy_Dog> and tbh i think its the nextion fucking up
2020-06-16T01:33:23 < Cracki> what pisses me off about "team work" is the lack of it. they expect you to bear your burden alone all too often
2020-06-16T01:33:27 < Mangy_Dog> really shoddy company and really shoddy tools
2020-06-16T01:33:35 < zyp> Cracki, they who?
2020-06-16T01:33:36 < Mangy_Dog> but i had a couple and didnt want to spend months developing a UI in code
2020-06-16T01:33:43 < Cracki> something I'd like to see more of is pair programming. just give me a useless apprentice, he won't be useless for long
2020-06-16T01:33:50 < Cracki> *gesticulates* THEY
2020-06-16T01:34:03 < zyp> heh
2020-06-16T01:34:23 < zyp> my current position is fun though, I'm the only software guy in the company
2020-06-16T01:34:29 < Cracki> pretty much all the places at uni and "off-campus" I've worked at as student assistant
2020-06-16T01:34:32 < zyp> or more like, I'm the only programmer
2020-06-16T01:34:41 < Mangy_Dog> oh and occationally not only do i get a errored packet (just some random stray byte in my stream i make) but occationaly i get a wrong button pressed...
2020-06-16T01:35:06 < Mangy_Dog> and its not my mcu code
2020-06-16T01:35:08 < zyp> then we've got a matlab/simulink guy
2020-06-16T01:35:08 < Mangy_Dog> its just nextion
2020-06-16T01:35:13 < Mangy_Dog> sending the wrong command randomly
2020-06-16T01:35:24 < Cracki> my current position is boss + me, and we _actually_ don't work the same parts of the project. he does the electrnoics and then it's in my court
2020-06-16T01:35:29 < zyp> he gives me generated code blobs, I make them run on actual hardware
2020-06-16T01:36:09 < zyp> and then we've got two guys that doesn't do any sort of code at all
2020-06-16T01:36:20 < zyp> (mech design and other stuff)
2020-06-16T01:36:28 < Cracki> I'm not a fan of slicing responsibilities like that
2020-06-16T01:37:06 < zyp> it's a small company requiring various skills
2020-06-16T01:37:19 < zyp> so it's more like we've got four one man departments
2020-06-16T01:38:14 < Cracki> the one project I keep using as a teaching aid, the customer had a system of three boxes talking to each other. their own (consultant) programmer knew box A intimately, I knew box B intimately, and for this thing to work, we had to be there physically in the same room and work simultaneously. I could only get my box to run, but was useless if it involved his box
2020-06-16T01:39:18 < Cracki> I wasn't being paid to figure out his box and wasn't inclined to take a peek either. and he wasn't supposed to understand my box because my boss banked on them needing to buy development time and unit sales
2020-06-16T01:39:34 < zyp> well, I'm a potato, I've done some dicking around in simulink to fix shit
2020-06-16T01:39:42 < zyp> but I don't enjoy that so I prefer to avoid it
2020-06-16T01:39:42 < Cracki> I was _this_ close to slapping some kind of forth or whatever on my box, so he could do his business logic as needed
2020-06-16T01:41:29 < Cracki> and then I meet hardware guys who seem to think they can just hook up any pin to any function, and I then get to sort out the shit by using bitbanged serial and whatnot, instead of the actual peripherals, because they didn't bother thinking before wiring the pins up
2020-06-16T01:41:40 < zyp> haha
2020-06-16T01:41:52 < zyp> somebody did too much fpga
2020-06-16T01:41:56 < zyp> or something :p
2020-06-16T01:41:58 < Cracki> he did zero fpga
2020-06-16T01:42:07 < zyp> fpga is great
2020-06-16T01:42:10 < Cracki> or, well, _maybe_ he did at uni back when he was at uni
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2020-06-16T01:42:32 < Cracki> when I asked what he was thinking, it was for no reason other than "it's easier to route"
2020-06-16T01:42:39 < specing> lol
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2020-06-16T01:42:50 < zyp> that's also one of the benefits of doing fpga :p
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2020-06-16T01:43:06 < zyp> you're pretty free on pinswapping
2020-06-16T01:43:16 < Cracki> which is why, if I ever find the desire to actually get into neural netowrks, I'm gonna see if a neural network can route PCBs for me
2020-06-16T01:43:19 < specing> Why don't the IO pins feature multiplexers to everything?
2020-06-16T01:43:29 < zyp> expensive
2020-06-16T01:43:30 < Cracki> big matrix ye that would be fun
2020-06-16T01:43:35 < Cracki> and hard
2020-06-16T01:43:49 < Cracki> muxing the analog stuff like that.. nah. digital, maybe.
2020-06-16T01:43:56 < specing> zyp: how is it expensive if the IO pin attachment and the driver fets already occupy lots of die space?
2020-06-16T01:44:03 < zyp> some MCUs do have pretty flexible muxing
2020-06-16T01:44:10 < zyp> eg. nrf5x
2020-06-16T01:44:11 < specing> stm32 are quite flexible already
2020-06-16T01:44:49 < zyp> and IIRC silabs also got some stuff where you can move stuff around to arbitrary pins
2020-06-16T01:45:27 < Cracki> the one shortish gig at some mech eng department, the supervisor only new matlab and python, and he had no clue about programming really, so against my better judgment and advise, he told me to make a program talk to a library by making two programs (business logic + wrapper around library) and making them talk to each other via UDP... on the same host
2020-06-16T01:45:38 < zyp> specing, stm32 does not allow you to put any function on an arbitrary pin, each pin has a fixed list of available functions
2020-06-16T01:45:41 < Cracki> because he didn't like something as complicated as calling a library
2020-06-16T01:45:44 < specing> the floor space of such a muxer would probably be negligeable compared to driver fets and IO pad on a modern process
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2020-06-16T01:45:57 < Cracki> because calling libraries from python is MAGIC or something
2020-06-16T01:45:57 < specing> zyp: yes, but it's still quite flexible
2020-06-16T01:46:03 < specing> zyp: as compared to avr/pic
2020-06-16T01:46:03 < zyp> sure
2020-06-16T01:46:16 < zyp> I mean, I like it, I don't complain
2020-06-16T01:47:40 < zyp> I also wish there were more mcu+fpga hybrids
2020-06-16T01:48:27 < zyp> although it's almost becoming just as easy to just do fpga with a soft-cpu nowadays
2020-06-16T01:49:14 < zyp> I just figure a hard cpu would be both more power- and cost effective
2020-06-16T01:49:14 < Mangy_Dog> i thought most fpgas had a MCU side loaded in them now?
2020-06-16T01:49:25 < zyp> had?
2020-06-16T01:49:40 < Mangy_Dog> have
2020-06-16T01:49:52 < zyp> you mean a hard-cpu or soft-cpu?
2020-06-16T01:49:59 < Mangy_Dog> hard
2020-06-16T01:50:02 < Mangy_Dog> full mcu
2020-06-16T01:50:10 < Cracki> zynq is not "normal", it's new
2020-06-16T01:50:41 < Mangy_Dog> or is it just a lot of fpga dev boards have an mcu built in too?
2020-06-16T01:50:50 < specing> Cracki: zynq is old
2020-06-16T01:50:54 < specing> and that's no mcu, lol
2020-06-16T01:50:55 < Cracki> a lot of fpga devboards are fairly new
2020-06-16T01:50:57 < zyp> hard-cpu options are pretty much xilinx zynq with cortex-a, some equivalent part from intel/altera and then actel smartfusion with cortex-m (are they still actel?) that doesn't seem to get talked about at all
2020-06-16T01:51:09 < Cracki> zynq has a cortex a, right?
2020-06-16T01:51:12 < zyp> yes
2020-06-16T01:51:15 < Cracki> we'll call that an MCU
2020-06-16T01:51:15 < specing> yes, a9
2020-06-16T01:51:17 < zyp> more than one, even
2020-06-16T01:51:44 < specing> there are also kintex parts with a72 or some such
2020-06-16T01:52:00 < zyp> you're not thinking of zynq ultrascale?
2020-06-16T01:52:04 < Cracki> still plenty of fpgas out there that have nothing like an mcu in them
2020-06-16T01:52:13 < zyp> yeah, most don't
2020-06-16T01:52:14 < Cracki> those lattice things seem popular
2020-06-16T01:52:15 < specing> zyp: isn't ultrascale kintex?
2020-06-16T01:52:31 < zyp> the ultrascale term seems to be orthogonal but idk
2020-06-16T01:52:37 < zyp> I haven't looked that much into it
2020-06-16T01:54:17 < zyp> oh, and then there's this thing: https://www.quicklogic.com/products/eos-s3/
2020-06-16T01:54:29 < zyp> but the fpga is apparently small and a bit weird
2020-06-16T01:55:12 < zyp> I've got one on the way, I hope it's possible to fit my usb core on it
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2020-06-16T02:33:43 < bitmask> couldnt see what I was doing so I just squirted some into a cardboard tube (as a splash guard)  so i missed the center, but this little hard drive motor worked great
2020-06-16T02:33:50 < bitmask> solder mask
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2020-06-16T07:51:06 < Thorn> >Microchip's proven ULPI interface
2020-06-16T07:51:14 < Thorn> mmirochip owns ulpi?
2020-06-16T07:53:08 < emeb_mac> MCHP bought SMSC a while back and they had lots of USB and Ethernet PHY chips.
2020-06-16T07:53:49 < emeb_mac> last I checked a lot of the datasheets still had SMSC logos on them
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2020-06-16T07:57:35 < antto> dafuq's ulpi even
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2020-06-16T09:00:50 < jadew> https://i.imgur.com/s2kBP6J.jpg
2020-06-16T09:18:28 < Thorn> do sine waves form a vector space?
2020-06-16T09:20:38 < srk> probably, you can add, subtract and scale them
2020-06-16T09:21:10 < Thorn> how do you prove that it's 2-dimensional
2020-06-16T09:24:43 < srk> hm, not strictly required for vector space 
2020-06-16T09:25:40 < srk> like that should be obvious from the definition of sin
2020-06-16T09:27:03 < srk> this computer graphics lectures are pure gold https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PL_w_qWAQZtAZhtzPI5pkAtcUVgmzdAP8g
2020-06-16T09:27:11 < srk> *these
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2020-06-16T09:47:09 < jpa-> Thorn: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Orthogonal_functions   sin/cos are one well-known pair of orthogonal functions
2020-06-16T09:47:50 < Thorn> oh cool thanks
2020-06-16T09:53:08 < benishor> srk: thanks, very nice lectures indeed
2020-06-16T09:57:11 < srk> wrote them an email if they could reupload these due to video quality
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2020-06-16T12:26:23 < benishor> did they ever answer?
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2020-06-16T12:46:08 < srk> we will see :)
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2020-06-16T14:36:45 < karlp> is there anything to watch out for with a usb bar code scanner?
2020-06-16T14:39:41 < mawk> the way it gives the data to the computer
2020-06-16T14:39:46 < mawk> some do it with an emulated keyboard
2020-06-16T14:39:50 < mawk> maybe you don't want that
2020-06-16T14:41:46 < srk> easy to deal with that, I think I've used libinput and python for that
2020-06-16T14:43:09 < karlp> mawk: what else is there, programmatic only?
2020-06-16T14:43:48 < zyp> HID has a barcode usage page
2020-06-16T14:44:20 < zyp> so I figure a decent one would declare itself as a HID barcode reader
2020-06-16T14:44:34 < zyp> but whether any that do that actually exists, I don't know
2020-06-16T14:45:09 < mawk> I've picked the keyboard variety, but I figured the other variety certainly exists somewhere
2020-06-16T14:46:14 < karlp> theswe ones on ali don't even mention that sort of thing :)
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2020-06-16T15:19:45 < qyx> karlp: I recently tested a datalogic 2d kiosk scanner for about 150e or so
2020-06-16T15:20:10 < qyx> I would say it is ok
2020-06-16T15:20:25 < qyx> I had the serial version though
2020-06-16T15:55:48 < karlp> I was looking at a https://www.aliexpress.com/item/4000782016188.html or a https://www.aliexpress.com/item/4000013356047.html (NT-L8)
2020-06-16T15:56:51 < Thorn> can I break out 6 rings of bga balls in 6 layers? using 4 layers (incl. the power layer) for signals
2020-06-16T15:58:12 < Cracki> 4 rings in 2 layers is possible so I'd guess +2 rings in +2/+4 layers should be too
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2020-06-16T16:03:15 < Cracki> hmmm could require blind/buried vias
2020-06-16T16:06:37 < Cracki> hm no, no funky vias. ring 5+ need a layer each so you should be good with 4 layers for 6 rings
2020-06-16T16:13:13 < Thorn> unfortunately there're power/gnd balls scattered around the whole package
2020-06-16T16:13:27 < Thorn> adding some extra vias in the 2 outer rings
2020-06-16T16:16:50 < Cracki> bleh
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2020-06-16T16:24:00 < Cracki> run those outer power balls out before dropping a via?
2020-06-16T16:24:08 < Cracki> not great but eh
2020-06-16T16:24:59 < zyp> outer rings have more balls than inner rings though
2020-06-16T16:25:06 < zyp> so you always have some extra leeway
2020-06-16T16:25:09 < Cracki> if it's just one or two of those per side in the outer layers, move/flip pattern to use the space that's created by diagonals
2020-06-16T16:25:14 < Cracki> yeah diagonals give room
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2020-06-16T16:46:54 < qyx> mhm I forgot to add a level translator between a 1V8 module and a 3V3 STM32
2020-06-16T16:47:09 < qyx> abs max rating of the LTE module is 2V1
2020-06-16T16:47:19 < qyx> it works
2020-06-16T16:49:37 < qyx> maybe I could reconfigure TXD as open drain with pullup to avoid stressing the pin
2020-06-16T17:08:56 < Cracki> if not, maybe a series R with some pcb surgery?
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2020-06-16T17:29:41 < dongs> any riglol pros
2020-06-16T17:29:47 < dongs> where do you see if you have 100mhz option or not
2020-06-16T17:43:04 < jadew> utility menu
2020-06-16T17:45:00 < jadew> system info
2020-06-16T17:45:08 < jadew> check the model
2020-06-16T17:47:16 < benishor> or you can always try it out with a 100MHz source
2020-06-16T17:51:59 < braindamage> https://boards.greenhouse.io/spacex/jobs/4764403002?gh_jid=4764403002
2020-06-16T17:54:42 < karlp> "Must be willing to work significant overtime"
2020-06-16T17:55:51 < Mangy_Dog> sooooo break; breakls out of a while loop... but can i run break; break; to escape 2 layers of while loop?
2020-06-16T17:56:05 < benishor> no
2020-06-16T17:56:13 < Mangy_Dog> or does the first break skip all after it?
2020-06-16T17:56:14 < benishor> once you get into the first break, it exists the scope
2020-06-16T17:56:20 < Mangy_Dog> ok
2020-06-16T17:56:27 < karlp> you can break with labels though iirc.
2020-06-16T17:56:29 < benishor> you can however use goto
2020-06-16T17:56:38 < karlp> but you normalyl want to consider this time to refactor
2020-06-16T17:56:50 < Mangy_Dog> k
2020-06-16T17:56:52 < benishor> there are certain things that are hard to refactor
2020-06-16T17:57:03 < Mangy_Dog> oh nm
2020-06-16T17:57:07 < benishor> like for instance breaking from a two or three layer nested loop
2020-06-16T17:57:21 < Mangy_Dog> i can just use the same thing im targeting towards to end the child loop
2020-06-16T17:57:31 < Mangy_Dog> its ok :D
2020-06-16T17:57:37 < benishor> you can use flag vars but it makes it messy
2020-06-16T17:57:48 < benishor> a goto is usually the best solution in cases like these
2020-06-16T17:58:01 < karlp> benishor: sure, but i fyou have two or three nested levels, I'd say you should be refactoring them into functions, you can then use return nicely too
2020-06-16T17:58:19 < benishor> karlp: sure, but that will take extra cycles
2020-06-16T17:58:21 < karlp> I would say if you feel the need to use a goto to break out of a double deep loop, you _are_ doing it wrong
2020-06-16T17:58:23 < benishor> so it depends on what the usage is
2020-06-16T17:58:29 < karlp> get fucked extra cycles
2020-06-16T17:58:51 < benishor> goto is usually frowned upon by people who misread/misinterpreted dijkstra's article
2020-06-16T17:58:57 < karlp> that's not at all what I'm talking about
2020-06-16T17:59:10 < benishor> Mangy_Dog: what's your usecase?
2020-06-16T17:59:18 < karlp> I'm saying if you h ave loops with multiple exit paths to multiple continue points, you _are_ doing it wrong, goto or not.
2020-06-16T17:59:19 < Mangy_Dog> hard to wasplain
2020-06-16T17:59:29 < Mangy_Dog> its the preheat to a start temp for my reflow oven heat up cycle
2020-06-16T17:59:44 < benishor> karlp: imagine searching through a multi-dimensional array
2020-06-16T17:59:46 < Mangy_Dog> i just want it to get to 40c before it starts the propper heat up cycle
2020-06-16T17:59:50 < Mangy_Dog> thats timed
2020-06-16T18:00:04 < benishor> karlp: there's no "nice" solution for that
2020-06-16T18:00:11 < Mangy_Dog> so i put the preheat while within the main heat cycle while
2020-06-16T18:00:22 < Mangy_Dog> i might still swap thigns round
2020-06-16T18:00:26 < Mangy_Dog> as truth be told...
2020-06-16T18:00:32 < karlp> seriously, "return"
2020-06-16T18:00:40 < Mangy_Dog> im still figuring out how best to control my bake control
2020-06-16T18:01:21 < Mangy_Dog> i might just take the parent while out of the equation and run each reflow step in its own while
2020-06-16T18:01:23 < benishor> karlp: a return already involves building either a response structure, or handing one over as input parameter
2020-06-16T18:01:42 < benishor> you need to know whether shit was found and if so what indices/value
2020-06-16T18:02:06 < benishor> as I said, it depends on the usecase 
2020-06-16T18:02:16 < benishor> where performance is at premium, goto is a valid choice
2020-06-16T18:02:36 < karlp> glad I don't work with you :)
2020-06-16T18:02:43 < benishor> likewise :)
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2020-06-16T18:03:00 < Mangy_Dog> goto is horrid but sometimes theres no other option
2020-06-16T18:03:01 < benishor> don't tell anyone my day job involves high level enterprise software 
2020-06-16T18:03:18 < benishor> drown in endless layers of abstractions
2020-06-16T18:05:11 < karlp> so, benishor, what profiling tools do you find most efective for your performance work?
2020-06-16T18:05:55 < benishor> in the case of microcontrollers? benchmarking?
2020-06-16T18:06:17 < benishor> I'm not very stm32 savvy but I usually go with toggling a pin on and off in order to get timing info
2020-06-16T18:06:37 < karlp> and when you've got a multdimensional array you're searchign and you're checking your performance?
2020-06-16T18:07:05 < benishor> and in order to have a better picture and dilute the setup overheads as opposed to microbencharking itself you can run multiple iterations when timing
2020-06-16T18:07:44 < benishor> search for random values
2020-06-16T18:08:12 < benishor> any particular place you want to get at?
2020-06-16T18:08:57 < srk> Mangy_Dog: PI or proportional control, PI kinda sucks due to slow response, response of ours is like 30 seconds 
2020-06-16T18:09:17 < srk> multiple PT100s would be nice as well
2020-06-16T18:09:34 < karlp> just curious what sort of techniques you're using for validation
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2020-06-16T18:09:48 < benishor> karlp: either way you put it, there's only one valid technique: measurement 
2020-06-16T18:09:58 < karlp> agreed :) 
2020-06-16T18:10:41 < benishor> the real tricks come into making sure the measurement you are making are covering much of the cases and not just some corner cases
2020-06-16T18:11:36 < benishor> I would expect the stm32 world would have much better tools for performance measurement than my barbaric approach of pin toggling
2020-06-16T18:11:47 < benishor> but I don't know what those are
2020-06-16T18:11:56 < srk> you can use tracing facilities
2020-06-16T18:12:16 < benishor> who's performing the tracing itself and what impact does it have on the run performance?
2020-06-16T18:12:23 < srk> https://github.com/orbcode/orbuculum/
2020-06-16T18:12:25 < benishor> is that a sampling kind of tracing?
2020-06-16T18:12:25 < Mangy_Dog> srk tbh ive not really got the full grips on the whole PID thing
2020-06-16T18:12:25 < srk> depends
2020-06-16T18:12:33 < benishor> or a full?
2020-06-16T18:12:45 < srk> Mangy_Dog: yeah and its kind-of useless here :D
2020-06-16T18:12:54 < Mangy_Dog> its mostly bangbang but with a 1hz PWm duty control based on the tempurature disparity of 20+ or-
2020-06-16T18:13:06 < Mangy_Dog> c
2020-06-16T18:13:07 < srk> doesn't matter, measure the response time
2020-06-16T18:13:21 < srk> turn on the heater and plot the output 
2020-06-16T18:13:27 < Mangy_Dog> i will be...
2020-06-16T18:13:28 < srk> how long it takes till you can notice
2020-06-16T18:13:35 < Mangy_Dog> when i get the ssr and thermocoupler delivered :p
2020-06-16T18:13:47 < Mangy_Dog> there will be some manual tuning
2020-06-16T18:13:51 < karlp> benishor: orbuculum is just some support tooling, coresight can do both pc sampling, exception tracing, full pc tracing, or software intstrumentation.
2020-06-16T18:14:03 < srk> benishor: it can do per-instruction tracing but sometimes it need to slow down the core due to bandwidth
2020-06-16T18:14:04 < Mangy_Dog> but right nwo im just writing it as best/or as badly as i can without testing
2020-06-16T18:14:34 < srk> I've stuck with PID but have to change parameters during the reflow proc
2020-06-16T18:15:06 < Mangy_Dog> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WkxVvzwWHKw
2020-06-16T18:15:09 < Mangy_Dog> btw if you not seen it
2020-06-16T18:15:15 < benishor> karlp, srk: thanks but I don't think I need to get into orbuculum just yet :) I'm just a hobbyist
2020-06-16T18:15:25 < Mangy_Dog> mounted teh display... but managed to crack the touch sensor glass doing it D:
2020-06-16T18:15:31 < srk> benishor: you can also read about ITM ETM in reference manuals
2020-06-16T18:15:51 < mawk> some construction worker cut a cable in delft Steffanx 
2020-06-16T18:15:53 < mawk> so no internet at work
2020-06-16T18:15:57 < karlp> ETM's  pretty niche usecase IMO, but plain ITM/SWO is fucking amaze
2020-06-16T18:15:57 < mawk> it's a sign of god
2020-06-16T18:16:02 < mawk> I should go home and sleep
2020-06-16T18:16:16 < karlp> and pc sampling profiling is really nice for basic stuff
2020-06-16T18:16:32 < srk> Mangy_Dog: yeah, that looks cool, I haven't got to actual interface - just a python script for control :D
2020-06-16T18:16:39 < Mangy_Dog> hehe
2020-06-16T18:16:44 < Mangy_Dog> its all in arduin and the display is Nextion
2020-06-16T18:16:51 < Mangy_Dog> arduino
2020-06-16T18:16:53 < benishor> srk, karl, has anyone written a tutorial on these?
2020-06-16T18:17:07 < srk> benishor: yeah, the orbuculum dev :)
2020-06-16T18:17:12 < Mangy_Dog> so ill be doing the real time plottong on the lcd too
2020-06-16T18:17:18 < srk> cool
2020-06-16T18:17:23 < benishor> ah, you were still talking about orbuculum :))
2020-06-16T18:17:25 < Mangy_Dog> plotting
2020-06-16T18:17:38 < benishor> srk: btw, I ended up confirming all fpu initialization solutions discussed yesterday
2020-06-16T18:17:49 < srk> benishor: well its related, orbuculum is just a tooling to set it up and consume / parse the messages
2020-06-16T18:18:02 < Mangy_Dog> i also need to write stuff in my heat up cycle that allows for the heat up rate not being able to match the desired rate
2020-06-16T18:18:11 < Mangy_Dog> this is only a 1000 w oven
2020-06-16T18:18:13 < benishor> the only thing when using cube's SystemInit() was that I had to use C linkage
2020-06-16T18:18:25 < srk> Mangy_Dog: btw why not some "native" stm32 display? like the one on f7 disco
2020-06-16T18:18:33 < Mangy_Dog> cheapness
2020-06-16T18:18:39 < srk> I see
2020-06-16T18:18:40 < Mangy_Dog> i had a few of these nections lying around doing nothing
2020-06-16T18:18:41 < mawk> yeah benishor because if you don't say extern "C" then the real function name is mangled
2020-06-16T18:18:50 < Mangy_Dog> im really not a fan of nextion tbh
2020-06-16T18:18:52 < mawk> type information, cv qualification and so on will be encoded in the name
2020-06-16T18:18:53 < srk> benishor: I'm just using freertos to set that for me :)
2020-06-16T18:18:56 < Mangy_Dog> hate the company and the lcd wuality is terrible
2020-06-16T18:19:22 < srk> how much does it cost?
2020-06-16T18:19:23 < Mangy_Dog> but using the ide makes, making a UI quicker and i didnt want to spend a hidiously long time developing this
2020-06-16T18:19:25 < benishor> using http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Special:Search?go=Go&search=gnu::constructor and __attribute__((constructor)) worked flawlessly
2020-06-16T18:19:29 < srk> aaah, cheating! :D
2020-06-16T18:19:45 < Mangy_Dog> if i wanted to go really high end
2020-06-16T18:19:48 < benishor> mawk:  ofc, I just forgot I switched to c++
2020-06-16T18:19:57 < Mangy_Dog> id use my stm32f103 and eve display chip setup
2020-06-16T18:20:01 < benishor> and the startup code .s file needed C linking
2020-06-16T18:20:22 < Mangy_Dog> but id be writing the UI in code all the way
2020-06-16T18:20:33 < Mangy_Dog> and be spending double the time i already have programming for it
2020-06-16T18:20:42 < benishor> Mangy_Dog: what display are you using? it's very nice
2020-06-16T18:20:43 < Mangy_Dog> would solve a few issue i have though using the nextion
2020-06-16T18:20:50 < benishor> ah, you said nextion
2020-06-16T18:21:00 < Mangy_Dog> like the fucking awful serial send code that sends errored packets 1 in 10 times
2020-06-16T18:21:20 < benishor> at least it's pretty
2020-06-16T18:21:22 < Mangy_Dog> heh
2020-06-16T18:21:29 < Mangy_Dog> well a decent lcd panel would be prettyer
2020-06-16T18:21:31 < benishor> so yey \o/
2020-06-16T18:21:34 < Mangy_Dog> that blueback ground... should be black
2020-06-16T18:21:46 < Mangy_Dog> the viewing angles on this panel are some of the worst ive ever seen
2020-06-16T18:21:59 < Mangy_Dog> mid 90s viewing angles
2020-06-16T18:22:17 < Mangy_Dog> in fact the panel is upside down as that produced the better use angle
2020-06-16T18:22:24 < Mangy_Dog> than its normal way up
2020-06-16T18:27:16 < benishor> it;s not like you'll read on it too much
2020-06-16T18:27:19 < benishor> just make it work and fire away
2020-06-16T18:27:25 < Mangy_Dog> yeah
2020-06-16T18:27:39 < Mangy_Dog> i also didnt want to waste one of my more decent lcd panels that i would use in a prop or something
2020-06-16T18:27:42 < benishor> premature optimisation is the root of all evil
2020-06-16T18:27:58 < Mangy_Dog> oh my code can certainly be more optimised
2020-06-16T18:28:01 < benishor> did you actually battle test it?
2020-06-16T18:28:06 < Mangy_Dog> and some things im doing are a bit round about way of doing things
2020-06-16T18:28:10 < Mangy_Dog> could do with some rework
2020-06-16T18:28:16 < Mangy_Dog> but i just want to get it working for now
2020-06-16T18:28:19 < Mangy_Dog> rework thing slater
2020-06-16T18:28:23 < Mangy_Dog> later
2020-06-16T18:28:39 < Mangy_Dog> only been able to test UI and functions
2020-06-16T18:28:43 < Mangy_Dog> the actual heating side of thigns not yet
2020-06-16T18:28:52 < Mangy_Dog> as im still waiting for the SSR and thermocoupler to come in
2020-06-16T18:28:59 < Mangy_Dog> ordered from china
2020-06-16T18:29:04 < Mangy_Dog> 3 weeks ago :/
2020-06-16T18:29:07 < Mangy_Dog> thought it turn up by now
2020-06-16T18:29:08 < Mangy_Dog> :/
2020-06-16T18:29:46 < Mangy_Dog> oh wait no
2020-06-16T18:29:51 < Mangy_Dog> nearly 4 weeks ago now
2020-06-16T18:30:09 < srk> use a relay meanwhile :)
2020-06-16T18:30:18 < Mangy_Dog> dont have one :p
2020-06-16T18:30:18 < srk> I've bought PT100 from a local shop
2020-06-16T18:30:46 < Mangy_Dog> ophh
2020-06-16T18:30:52 < Mangy_Dog>  i have some pt100s
2020-06-16T18:31:08 < Mangy_Dog> but i didnt want to have to buy a ssr locally
2020-06-16T18:31:13 < Mangy_Dog> because theyre stupid over priced
2020-06-16T18:31:16 < Mangy_Dog> here
2020-06-16T18:31:23 < srk> .. found some arduino circuit, hooked to hx711 because I've had a driver for it, then fought with the control for few days
2020-06-16T18:31:24 < Mangy_Dog> and i really am rather poor
2020-06-16T18:31:47 < benishor> if you don't have a relay, use a visual feedback (led) to tell you when to couple two wires together :)
2020-06-16T18:31:53 < srk> !! :D
2020-06-16T18:32:13 < Mangy_Dog> well just having a led to indicate that i put a gpio high is a bit....
2020-06-16T18:32:15 < Mangy_Dog> pointless :p
2020-06-16T18:32:17 < Mangy_Dog> in this case
2020-06-16T18:32:31 < Mangy_Dog> and given my code the heating cycle is so tied to the actual heat being read
2020-06-16T18:32:31 < benishor> I meant you would play the role of the relay
2020-06-16T18:32:33 < benishor> :D
2020-06-16T18:32:42 < benishor> oh yes
2020-06-16T18:32:48 < Mangy_Dog> i wouldnt be able to fake that easily... not without writing tons of code telemetry code
2020-06-16T18:32:48 < srk> ssr control is fun as well :)
2020-06-16T18:32:51 < benishor> no feedback, no nothing
2020-06-16T18:34:38 < benishor> any ramen eaters here? what ramen do you like best?
2020-06-16T18:34:51 < Mangy_Dog> fried port belly
2020-06-16T18:34:53 < Mangy_Dog> pork
2020-06-16T18:35:02 < Mangy_Dog> with a slightly sour dressing on it
2020-06-16T18:35:12 < Mangy_Dog> chicken and pork broth
2020-06-16T18:35:19 < Mangy_Dog> though i like steak too
2020-06-16T18:35:33 < Mangy_Dog> im not a fan of udon though
2020-06-16T18:35:54 < strata> pardon me, do you have any grey poupon?
2020-06-16T18:36:05 < Mangy_Dog> ?
2020-06-16T18:38:13 < strata> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QoHSe-0hixs
2020-06-16T18:41:10 < Mangy_Dog> lol
2020-06-16T18:41:53 < Mangy_Dog> i cant help but think this is an extension of yes minister
2020-06-16T18:42:20 < benishor> shit, I'm so hungry
2020-06-16T18:42:50 < Mangy_Dog> i made a egg mayo sarny a couple hours ago......... and i could do with something else to eat now :/
2020-06-16T18:49:34 < Steffanx> Oh youre back in the office mawk?
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2020-06-16T18:50:55 < Steffanx> I read ohsix in your url, so won't open, strata 
2020-06-16T18:58:09 -!- c10ud^ [~c10ud@emesene/dictator/c10ud] has joined ##stm32
2020-06-16T18:59:18 < mawk> on a voluntary basis Steffanx 
2020-06-16T18:59:25 < mawk> I went there to meet my new colleague
2020-06-16T18:59:29 < mawk> but I'll be back at home tomorrow
2020-06-16T19:05:45 < Steffanx> Im in the office everyday again.
2020-06-16T19:13:10 < mawk> lame
2020-06-16T19:13:14 < mawk> RIVM doesn't approve
2020-06-16T19:13:30 < Steffanx> Except for tomorrow, but thats because my car need servicing
2020-06-16T19:14:01 < mawk> service it everyday
2020-06-16T19:14:20 < Steffanx> Im alone in the office or with 1 colleague thats miles away in the same office
2020-06-16T19:15:05 < Steffanx> And COVID-19 is only for westerners/southerners. Not for northerners 
2020-06-16T19:15:51 < Steffanx> Stats say you have it worse. 3-4% of the tests performed is a positive. Its 0-0.9% here :P
2020-06-16T19:19:10 < mawk> netherlands is 0.1 km² anyway
2020-06-16T19:19:15 < mawk> there's no north or south
2020-06-16T19:29:31 < Thorn> only west
2020-06-16T19:29:47 < englishman> karlp: buy it from amazon so you can return it if it sucks
2020-06-16T19:47:00 < Steffanx> Its all relative mawk..
2020-06-16T19:47:51 < Steffanx> Have you seen a sars-cov-2 virus in the wild yet?
2020-06-16T19:48:02 < mawk> no-one has seen it
2020-06-16T19:48:07 < mawk> it probably is not real
2020-06-16T19:48:16 < jadew> friend of a friend got it
2020-06-16T19:48:36 < jadew> needed oxygen but he bounced back
2020-06-16T19:48:42 < jadew> ~30 yo
2020-06-16T19:48:56 < jadew> caught it from his brother, who works in a hospital
2020-06-16T19:50:00 < mawk> ah so he's good now
2020-06-16T19:50:06 < jadew> yeah
2020-06-16T19:50:43 < jadew> a nurse at the hospital died tho
2020-06-16T19:51:57 < jadew> new information circulating online seems to indicate that you might not fully recover, ever
2020-06-16T19:52:11 < jadew> depending on how bad it hits you
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2020-06-16T19:52:49 < jadew> it's a fucking nightmare
2020-06-16T19:53:59 < jadew> people here are also questioning its existence
2020-06-16T19:54:03 < jadew> which is worrying
2020-06-16T19:54:30 < jadew> they don't understand exponential growth
2020-06-16T19:54:44 < jadew> one day it's nowhere to be found, two weeks later it's everywhere
2020-06-16T19:56:02 < Cracki> you might not fully recover, ever, from living
2020-06-16T19:56:16 < Cracki> I question the official numbers
2020-06-16T19:56:31 < jadew> me too
2020-06-16T19:56:41 < Cracki> it doesn't add up
2020-06-16T19:56:51 < jadew> but I don't know if they're higher or lower
2020-06-16T19:57:07 < Cracki> don't be sad that it's over, be happy that it happened
2020-06-16T19:58:43 < jadew> ffs... I'm trying to figure out why my backups are so big
2020-06-16T19:58:53 < jadew> found some porn mixed with the code :/
2020-06-16T19:59:25 < Steffanx> Time to have a good talk with your son, jadew? :P
2020-06-16T19:59:25 < veverak> lol
2020-06-16T19:59:46 < Cracki> porn mixed with code, how did that happen
2020-06-16T19:59:51 < jadew> heh, he's too young for that, this one's on me
2020-06-16T19:59:58 < Cracki> yeah, tell him to stop mixing code with your porn
2020-06-16T20:00:00 < jadew> it's a couple of swf files
2020-06-16T20:00:12 < jadew> and I was serving them from the webroot
2020-06-16T20:00:16 < Steffanx> Swf?!
2020-06-16T20:00:21 < Thorn> that's far worse than porn
2020-06-16T20:00:25 < jadew> lol
2020-06-16T20:01:06 < Cracki> lots of internet has been rendered inaccessible because nobody bothered turning the swfs into videos or javascript+html5
2020-06-16T20:01:28 < Cracki> museums will eventually be the only places that run flash
2020-06-16T20:02:03 < Steffanx> Mawk, how comes the army isn't on the streets yet in dijon, mawk?
2020-06-16T20:02:13 < Steffanx> Lol. 2 mawks. One is enough
2020-06-16T20:06:59 -!- catphish [~user@unaffiliated/catphish] has quit [Quit: Leaving]
2020-06-16T20:14:57 < benishor> ^ best compliment ever
2020-06-16T20:20:20 < Steffanx> Not sure about that.
2020-06-16T20:34:39 -!- bvernoux [~Ben@88.120.152.126] has joined ##stm32
2020-06-16T20:57:30 < PaulFertser> Good job netgear https://blog.grimm-co.com/2020/06/soho-device-exploitation.html
2020-06-16T21:04:33 < mawk> why Steffanx ?
2020-06-16T21:04:40 < mawk> chechens killing algerians
2020-06-16T21:04:42 < mawk> it's perfect
2020-06-16T21:04:46 < mawk> let them do
2020-06-16T21:04:55 < Steffanx> Its a fucking warzone
2020-06-16T21:05:14 < mawk> well there's maybe an AK or two
2020-06-16T21:05:17 < mawk> but nothing new in France
2020-06-16T21:05:20 < Steffanx> Thats not something thats supposed to happen in a seemingly civilised country
2020-06-16T21:05:33 < mawk> in Marseille you have death by AK almost every day
2020-06-16T21:06:10 < Steffanx> It seem more than just the occasional ak
2020-06-16T21:06:15 < Steffanx> Seems*
2020-06-16T21:06:42 < mawk> the police didn't want to intervene
2020-06-16T21:06:55 < mawk> because otherwise the chechens and the arabs would've got together against the police most likely
2020-06-16T21:07:02 < mawk> and it would make an even bigger mess
2020-06-16T21:07:07 < mawk> so they let them kill each other peacefully
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2020-06-16T21:10:24 < Steffanx> Peacefully 🤣
2020-06-16T21:15:39 < benishor> divide et impera
2020-06-16T21:15:42 < benishor> ftw
2020-06-16T21:23:54 < Mangy_Dog> apart from reading real temp sensor data and triggering a real ssr....... my reflow cycle code is.... maybe done
2020-06-16T21:24:14 < Mangy_Dog> once i have the hardware i can quickly code in the hardware stuff and then test
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2020-06-16T21:41:52 < Cracki> get a meth lab and play with the algorithm maybe
2020-06-16T21:42:48 < Mangy_Dog> lol
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2020-06-16T21:43:58 < Mangy_Dog> i think i might have to give in and order the 2 parts im waiting for locally and spend the 4 times the amount ive already spend 
2020-06-16T22:33:36 < mawk> also police is a hot topic in france right now Steffanx 
2020-06-16T22:34:05 < mawk> some indigenist outcry specialists took the george floyd oppourtnity to organize "protests"
2020-06-16T22:34:26 < mawk> right in the middle of a pandemic, with state emergency law putin would love, and the government still lets them protest
2020-06-16T22:34:49 < mawk> that tells how much the government is subordonated to the indigenists
2020-06-16T22:35:03 < mawk> but anyway now the police doesn't want to intervene when the perpretator isn't rgb(255, 255, 255)
2020-06-16T22:35:34 < mawk> as a means of retaliation against the police ministry which didn't support at all the policemen, even saying that they will get fired from the force and tried on a "suspicion" of racism
2020-06-16T22:35:38 < mawk> moscow-trial style
2020-06-16T22:38:07 < strata> but if you say social media addiction has caused the world to go literally batshit insane, you're called a conspiracy theorist.
2020-06-16T22:41:36 < mawk> yeah
2020-06-16T22:41:49 < mawk> in france they're using a kid that died of cardiac arrest in custody
2020-06-16T22:42:00 < mawk> his sister is organizing the protests
2020-06-16T22:42:17 < mawk> they were like 20k of them very crowded on the Republic place in paris
2020-06-16T22:42:51 < strata> yesterday, a routing fuckup at t-mobile escalated into people sharing "my shit is down" all over twitter until there was so much hysteria they called it a cyberattack and then "reputable" news agencies reported it as such and had to later retract it.
2020-06-16T22:42:58 < mawk> then my facist friends from Identity Generation deployed a massive poster from the roof of a building on that place that says "DON'T FORGET THE VICTIMS OF ANTI-WHITE RACISM"
2020-06-16T22:43:02 < mawk> the crowd was mega pissed
2020-06-16T22:43:25 < mawk> lol
2020-06-16T22:43:28 < mawk> snowball effect
2020-06-16T22:44:28 < strata> that sign would be a hate crime here
2020-06-16T22:44:42 < Cracki> I wish there was an easy way to commission pissant sized metal work locally for peanuts. I just need right angle brackets with one 10 mm and two 3.2 mm bores, at the right positions. best I can do is get angle brackets from the hw store and drill the holes myself freehand which would turn out with awful precision (got no drill press or drill with stand)
2020-06-16T22:44:43 < mawk> they got arrested afterwards
2020-06-16T22:44:49 < mawk> but apparently when you don't resist arrest you don't die
2020-06-16T22:45:02 < strata> but still... they were arrested for that.
2020-06-16T22:45:16 < strata> i understand that some if not all european countries have no free speech
2020-06-16T22:45:39 < strata> USA is catching up to you tho
2020-06-16T22:45:47 < Cracki> news are liars, what else is new
2020-06-16T22:45:54 < Cracki> people are retarded sheep
2020-06-16T22:45:56 < strata> we're now shifting into a government of morals / ideology / fundamentalism
2020-06-16T22:46:01 < Cracki> feefees
2020-06-16T22:46:07 < strata> instead of a government based on law and order
2020-06-16T22:46:16 < Cracki> law and order hurts the feefees
2020-06-16T22:46:39 < Cracki> and we have so much huwhite guilt that we actually believe they were harmed by colonialism
2020-06-16T22:46:49 < Cracki> ingrates
2020-06-16T22:47:17 < strata> the thing you have to know about US tho is that slavery is a real thing
2020-06-16T22:47:23 < mawk> https://steemitimages.com/p/3zpz8WQe4SNGWd7TzozjPgq3rggennavDx3XPY35pEAVnpsgwDQTN1AguZup3gY5T8jPFzLZFETqzRkSgYf15xrv9JdanpCaiwyotqHYnGUcB9nJhUDfQRpoUKqf64Ln9JQ5hrd9sm9AMTRvV6iz?format=match&mode=fit&width=640
2020-06-16T22:47:30 < strata> there are people alive today that are still affected by the slavery from only 200 years ago
2020-06-16T22:47:38 < mawk> "justice for victims of anti-white racism, white lives matter" is written
2020-06-16T22:47:48 < strata> 200 years is not a long time.
2020-06-16T22:47:52 < Cracki> everywhere the various factions of the right countersignal each other. always punching right.
2020-06-16T22:48:12 < Cracki> a leftie politican is honored to be called "hard left" or "extreme left"
2020-06-16T22:48:21 < strata> there is no extreme left in USA
2020-06-16T22:48:22 < Cracki> righties are deathly afraid of the same
2020-06-16T22:48:36 < Cracki> maoism is centrism today?
2020-06-16T22:49:04 < Cracki> btw, we're in ##stm32. just wanted to call attention to that fact
2020-06-16T22:49:10 < strata> oh shit
2020-06-16T22:49:29 < strata> yea go back to the KKK channel
2020-06-16T22:51:47 < Cracki> ramzpaul recently taught me that the original KKK was a local militia founded *because* there was no law and no order
2020-06-16T22:52:00 < Cracki> 1860s
2020-06-16T22:52:15 < Cracki> that was the true KKK. the stuff in the 1900s was larpers
2020-06-16T22:53:47 < Cracki> "ludicrous initiations, the baffling of public curiosity, and the amusement for members were the only objects of the Klan"
2020-06-16T22:56:10 < Cracki> oh, it was a democrat thing! "it declined because it failed to achieve its central objective—the overthrow of Republican state governments in the South"
2020-06-16T22:56:34 < Cracki> dems r the real rayciss
2020-06-16T22:57:17 < Cracki> so it was the 1860 version of antifa: "similar insurgent paramilitary groups arose that were explicitly directed at suppressing Republican voting and turning Republicans out of office"
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2020-06-16T23:52:04 < PaulFertser> mawk: can you get IgM/IgG antibodies to SARS-CoV-2 testing?
--- Day changed Wed Jun 17 2020
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2020-06-17T00:07:10 < mawk> what do you mean ?
2020-06-17T00:07:15 < mawk> if I can buy them ?
2020-06-17T00:10:10 < Steffanx> Can you, can you?
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2020-06-17T00:28:58 < PaulFertser> mawk: if you can get your blood tested for the presence of those antibodies without much hassle.
2020-06-17T00:30:41 < zyp> I'd be interested in getting an antibody test
2020-06-17T00:32:12 < PaulFertser> In moscow everybody can get tested for free, it's just two-three weeks queue.
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2020-06-17T00:32:39 < PaulFertser> Everybody who's not having any of the "common cold" symptoms.
2020-06-17T00:34:42 < PaulFertser> I do atm :( Had sore throat on thursday then it kinda stopped being sore but I get up to 37.0--37.2 body temp by every evening, plus some overall weakness.
2020-06-17T00:36:39 < Cracki> watch your finger nails. if they look a different shade of pink than usual, take a deep breath
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2020-06-17T00:37:53 < PaulFertser> Cracki: what measurements is that correlated with?
2020-06-17T00:37:54 -!- c10ud^ [~c10ud@emesene/dictator/c10ud] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
2020-06-17T00:38:05 < Cracki> low o2 sat
2020-06-17T00:38:33 < PaulFertser> Interesting. Shouldn't I feel something else too in that case?
2020-06-17T00:39:05 < Cracki> maybe. didn't people report that they had poor sats *without* shortness of breath
2020-06-17T00:39:36 < zyp> looks like there's a bunch of companies that wants to make money from antibody tests here
2020-06-17T00:40:08 -!- bvernoux [~Ben@88.120.152.126] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds]
2020-06-17T00:41:38 < Cracki> make money... our public health network does 400k tests a week, and that's the pcr test. antibody tests should be lots cheaper
2020-06-17T00:41:47 < Cracki> our = germoney
2020-06-17T00:42:07 < zyp> I'm talking about private companies
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2020-06-17T00:43:39 < qyx> private PCR here costs 35-70e iirc
2020-06-17T00:44:08 < qyx> I have seen antibody tests for 15e (5 tests)
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2020-06-17T00:58:31 < karlp> ok, fuck waiting for jlc to sort out cheap shipping again
2020-06-17T00:58:43 < karlp> pushed the button the hub pcbs so that it moves forward, one day
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2020-06-17T01:03:12 < Mangy_Dog> cheap shipping?
2020-06-17T01:03:17 < Mangy_Dog> jlc never did cheap shipping
2020-06-17T01:03:22 < Mangy_Dog> always was 7 quid minimum for me
2020-06-17T01:03:31 -!- renn0xtk9 [~max@2a02:810d:1540:61b8:b4f9:3765:16c5:123d] has quit [Quit: Konversation terminated!]
2020-06-17T01:03:34 < Steffanx> Like 7 isnt cheap
2020-06-17T01:03:48 < Mangy_Dog> well in fairness thats true if you compared it to UK postal costs
2020-06-17T01:04:05 < Mangy_Dog> but considering how much china subsidises there postal system
2020-06-17T01:04:05 < Steffanx> Try shipping a local package to the other side od the city for 7.
2020-06-17T01:04:09 < Mangy_Dog> thats a fortune :p
2020-06-17T01:04:14 < Steffanx> That indeed
2020-06-17T01:04:28 < Steffanx> I'm a slow typer :P
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2020-06-17T01:04:36 < Mangy_Dog> heh
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2020-06-17T01:04:51 < Mangy_Dog> tbh 7 quid is roughly what it costs for parcels within the UK
2020-06-17T01:05:05 < Mangy_Dog> might be able to ship to america a small parcel for around 10 quid
2020-06-17T01:05:46 < Mangy_Dog> and i also just broke the breizer of my display for the reflow oven
2020-06-17T01:06:03 < Mangy_Dog> trying to remove an led that got superglue residue fog on it :/
2020-06-17T01:06:07 < Mangy_Dog> so having to print a new one
2020-06-17T01:06:50 < karlp> Mangy_Dog: 7 pounds is cheap shipping
2020-06-17T01:07:08 < Mangy_Dog> well i mean jlc havnt stopped doing that?
2020-06-17T01:07:15 < karlp> pre-covid jlcpc shipping was <10 currency units
2020-06-17T01:07:27 < karlp> right now it's ~30 as the only option, but it's dhl
2020-06-17T01:07:39 < karlp> and fuck it, this project has waited long enough for no reason, I'm paying
2020-06-17T01:07:42 < Mangy_Dog> hmm the tricorder part i ordered a few weeks ago was only about 7 quid?
2020-06-17T01:07:55 < karlp> lucky you
2020-06-17T01:07:57 < Mangy_Dog> that was post corvid
2020-06-17T01:08:23 < karlp> in other news, bike parts from wiggle, ordered saturday night, delivered this afternoon for 2.29€ shipping.
2020-06-17T01:08:28 < Mangy_Dog> but i did use the 10x10 board and only 5 boards
2020-06-17T01:08:38 < Mangy_Dog> :D
2020-06-17T01:08:40 < Mangy_Dog> nice
2020-06-17T01:08:43 < PaulFertser> Has anyone tried DMSO to dissolve CA?
2020-06-17T01:08:58 < Mangy_Dog> i thought only acetone worked :/
2020-06-17T01:09:14 < Mangy_Dog> i was trying to remove it with acetone but it wouldnt budge
2020-06-17T01:10:06 < PaulFertser> DMSO is sold in pharmacies
2020-06-17T01:10:14 < Mangy_Dog> never heard of it
2020-06-17T01:12:09 < emeb> CA = ?
2020-06-17T01:12:09 < karlp> what's dmso?
2020-06-17T01:12:10 < PaulFertser> "it could penetrate the skin and other membranes without damaging them and could carry other compounds into a biological system"
2020-06-17T01:12:10 < karlp> di methyl sulfated oxicontin?
2020-06-17T01:12:10 < karlp> digi-mega-stm32-oscilloscope?
2020-06-17T01:12:10 < karlp> dongs may shriek occasionally?
2020-06-17T01:12:10 < qyx_> karlp: the hub project?
2020-06-17T01:12:10 -!- qyx_ is now known as qyx
2020-06-17T01:12:10 < qyx> ot, how to fuel-gauge a LiSOCl2 primary cell?
2020-06-17T01:12:10 < qyx> it has super flat fischarge curve
2020-06-17T01:12:10 < Mangy_Dog> tbh out of everything my biggest fear is the electronics chamber getting too hot
2020-06-17T01:12:10 < Mangy_Dog> even though i added insulation, im sure its going to get warm in there
2020-06-17T01:12:12 < karlp> dogs, mangy, stargates, online.
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2020-06-17T01:12:15 < karlp> qyx: yeah, finally.
2020-06-17T01:12:39 < PaulFertser> emeb: cyanoacrilate
2020-06-17T01:12:45 < karlp> parts are on the move from .cz, gotta vierify this shit is sane before I autism any further and start building a 30W AC supply into it :)
2020-06-17T01:12:48 < Mangy_Dog> CA superglue
2020-06-17T01:12:56 < PaulFertser> acrylate sorry
2020-06-17T01:12:57 < emeb> gotcha
2020-06-17T01:13:16 < karlp> PaulFertser: but what's dmso?
2020-06-17T01:13:31 < emeb> dimethylsufoxide
2020-06-17T01:13:33 < karlp> Mangy_Dog: "acetone" acetone or "nail polish remover that you hoped was acetone" ?
2020-06-17T01:13:40 < qyx> so.. https://i.imgur.com/YKph07L.png
2020-06-17T01:13:46 < Mangy_Dog> propper acetone
2020-06-17T01:13:51 < Mangy_Dog> acechemicals
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2020-06-17T01:14:11 < emeb> I knew a guy in school who used DMSO on his joints. Just rubbed it on externally. 
2020-06-17T01:14:26 < emeb> weird stuff - is soaks into your body like a sponge.
2020-06-17T01:14:36 < Mangy_Dog> never heard of it
2020-06-17T01:14:39 < karlp> I ran into some problems with acetone that was mostly ... acetate
2020-06-17T01:14:43 < emeb> put a bit in your hand and it just disappears.
2020-06-17T01:14:44 < karlp> ethyl acetate, that's it
2020-06-17T01:15:00 < emeb> and smells like oysters
2020-06-17T01:15:02 < karlp> oh, it really was dimethyl sulf ox...
2020-06-17T01:15:07 < karlp> I just got close by chance
2020-06-17T01:15:20 < Mangy_Dog> DMSO doesnt sound safe
2020-06-17T01:15:20 < karlp> qyx: nice block diagram :)
2020-06-17T01:15:22 < karlp> iot'
2020-06-17T01:15:25 < karlp> s missing a pile of coins :)
2020-06-17T01:15:37 < karlp> fun seeing thhose RN part numbers still
2020-06-17T01:15:43 < karlp> that's a wifi module then right?
2020-06-17T01:15:51 < qyx> no, lorawan modem
2020-06-17T01:15:52 < Mangy_Dog> also sorry for lack of updates on the stargate
2020-06-17T01:15:54 < PaulFertser> Mangy_Dog: the wikipedia article says it's safer than most solvents, including acetone.
2020-06-17T01:16:02 < karlp> wat? they kept the RN part numbers for lora shits too?
2020-06-17T01:16:06 < emeb> Mangy_Dog: DMSO isn't inherently bad for you, but it can carry other bad stuff into the body.
2020-06-17T01:16:14 < PaulFertser> Yeah
2020-06-17T01:16:16 < qyx> karlp: apparently, are they special?
2020-06-17T01:16:21 < emeb> so you don't want to touch the industrial grade stuff.
2020-06-17T01:16:28 < karlp> qyx: https://www.businesswire.com/news/home/20120419005392/en/Microchip-Technology-Acquires-Roving-Networks
2020-06-17T01:16:31 < emeb> but pharma-grade is ok.
2020-06-17T01:16:45 < qyx> karlp: oh, didn't know that
2020-06-17T01:17:02 < karlp> roving was all wifi/bt thoug
2020-06-17T01:17:10 < karlp> lora didn't exist when they were acquired
2020-06-17T01:17:21 < karlp> I didn't know mchp was keeping the rn* prefixes for radio parts
2020-06-17T01:18:03 < qyx> maybe I doulf use L0/L4 with semtech's radio and ST's stack
2020-06-17T01:18:04 < qyx> *could
2020-06-17T01:18:07 < qyx> but why bother
2020-06-17T01:18:10 < karlp> fuck lora man
2020-06-17T01:18:18 < qyx> this works
2020-06-17T01:18:25 < karlp> no bandwidth, requires base stations, what's the fucking poitn?
2020-06-17T01:18:36 < qyx> we have a great network, testing atm
2020-06-17T01:18:42 < qyx> ~30 GWs in reach
2020-06-17T01:18:46 < karlp> (what's the cehapest DMM with a pc connection around?)
2020-06-17T01:18:53 < karlp> how much you pay for access to it?
2020-06-17T01:19:03 < karlp> or is this some telco thinking, "we'll figure it out later!"
2020-06-17T01:19:04 < qyx> under 1e
2020-06-17T01:19:10 < karlp> per ?
2020-06-17T01:19:13 < qyx> per mo per device
2020-06-17T01:19:19 < qyx> in singles
2020-06-17T01:19:26 < karlp> well that adds up quick for still not getting any bw
2020-06-17T01:19:58 < qyx> yeah but when be requirements are not high it is ok
2020-06-17T01:20:02 < qyx> also batt powered
2020-06-17T01:20:06 < qyx> what should I use instead?
2020-06-17T01:20:12 < qyx> ntbiot with 250K/mo?
2020-06-17T01:20:32 < qyx> nothing useful around
2020-06-17T01:20:37 < karlp> nah, I'm just not in the battery world :)
2020-06-17T01:20:45 < qyx> hrmphf
2020-06-17T01:20:47 < karlp> people are like "use lora! use nb-iot!"
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2020-06-17T01:21:05 < karlp> and I'm like, "wtf for?! I'm plugged into mains and you'rðe asking for rich uis?!"
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2020-06-17T01:21:18 < karlp> it's buzzword bingo for some people :)
2020-06-17T01:21:23 < qyx> quite different use case
2020-06-17T01:21:26 < karlp> absolutely .)
2020-06-17T01:21:32 < karlp> I just get the buzzword bingo end of it :)
2020-06-17T01:21:35 < qyx> I would not use such things if I wasn't "forced"
2020-06-17T01:21:57 < qyx> ie. having the device battery powered narrows the options
2020-06-17T01:22:28 < qyx> I could arduino up my of own radio, but in this case LoRaWAN is easier
2020-06-17T01:23:57 < qyx> so time to replace the question mark in the block diagram
2020-06-17T01:24:09 < qyx> what is cool today, L5?
2020-06-17T01:24:41 < karlp> g4?
2020-06-17T01:25:19 < PaulFertser> karlp: from looking at pics there https://sigrok.org/wiki/Supported_hardware#Multimeters MASTECH seems to be the most ghetto
2020-06-17T01:25:45 < PaulFertser> Or probably metex
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2020-06-17T01:32:24 < karlp> ghetto's fine, plan is for basic sanity inside production testing shit
2020-06-17T01:33:02 < karlp> we have a fairly ordinary tenma one at work, that I have pc connected before, but it's expensive for what you get
2020-06-17T01:33:24 < PaulFertser> I like my Uni-T
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2020-06-17T01:40:17 < PaulFertser> karlp: I think non-RMS UNI-T DMMs are reasonably cheap and nice.
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2020-06-17T01:40:56 < karlp> uni-t and tenma are same aren't they?
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2020-06-17T01:42:24 < qyx> how are you going to power it?
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2020-06-17T01:42:35 < qyx> because my uni-t is not powered using USB
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2020-06-17T01:46:22 < karlp> doh
2020-06-17T01:46:33 < karlp> well, I wasn't going to use a uni-t anyway
2020-06-17T01:47:02 < karlp> hadn't realllllly thought about that.
2020-06-17T01:47:08 < qyx> the usb "dongle" has IR diodes
2020-06-17T01:47:15 < karlp> yeah, they all would have.
2020-06-17T01:47:17 < qyx> and the DMM is powered by its battery
2020-06-17T01:47:38 < karlp> so, if the DUT is powered from a usb-c pd æthingy
2020-06-17T01:47:56 < karlp> I can get a bluetooth/usb in line thing, but.. man, that starts getting super ghetto
2020-06-17T01:48:33 < qyx> how much do you want to pay for the dmm?
2020-06-17T01:48:57 < qyx> there is a somewhat proper NI DMM/DAQ for playing
2020-06-17T01:49:21 < karlp> DMM is a "this would really roudn out the testing" but not even part of it so far.
2020-06-17T01:49:33 < karlp> I think i?ll just leave a spare usb port and say, "later, yolo
2020-06-17T01:50:04 < karlp> still trying to work out whether learning angular to extend openhtf is feasible or batshit crazy
2020-06-17T01:50:41 < qyx> https://www.ni.com/cs-cz/shop/select/mydaq-student-data-acquisition-device
2020-06-17T01:50:56 < qyx> € 375,00
2020-06-17T01:50:57 < qyx> haha ok
2020-06-17T01:51:30 < karlp> fuck off :)
2020-06-17T01:51:36 < karlp> that looks a lot like the analog discovery
2020-06-17T01:51:40 < karlp> which would probvably work
2020-06-17T01:51:53 < qyx> I have an isolated DMM in my to-do list
2020-06-17T01:52:00 < qyx> for the subrack thing I am doing
2020-06-17T01:52:10 < karlp> NI currently does not offer online purchasing for your selected country. Please contact us and a customer service representative will be happy to assist you.
2020-06-17T01:52:36 < karlp> I was looking at "just use a rpi, it's "standard"" today, went to rpi.org or whatever
2020-06-17T01:52:45 < karlp> choose "buy now"
2020-06-17T01:53:06 < karlp> coutnry not listed, choose worldwide, => no distributors available for your selected area
2020-06-17T01:53:09 < karlp> no further options
2020-06-17T01:53:15 < karlp> .... fuck you then.
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2020-06-17T01:54:13 < qyx> I like your country except those peculiarities you often mention
2020-06-17T01:54:24 < karlp> oh, tedious
2020-06-17T01:54:26 < qyx> random link https://www.google.com/maps/@63.7658282,-18.1266518,3a,61.2y,10.28h,87.48t/data=!3m8!1e1!3m6!1sAF1QipP8nNqtMlFF2pU3fLrftpTs1s3fyghcr-taq6FI!2e10!3e11!6shttps:%2F%2Flh5.googleusercontent.com%2Fp%2FAF1QipP8nNqtMlFF2pU3fLrftpTs1s3fyghcr-taq6FI%3Dw203-h100-k-no-pi-20-ya63.999992-ro-0-fo100!7i8704!8i4352
2020-06-17T01:54:30 < karlp> but yeah, fuckign love living here :)
2020-06-17T01:54:44 < karlp> at least it's all predictable
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2020-06-17T01:55:06 < karlp> have you been here?
2020-06-17T01:55:16 < karlp> did we already know each other?!
2020-06-17T01:55:32 < karlp> I would feel a little dissapointed if we hadn't tried to meet up
2020-06-17T01:55:53 < qyx> no, sometimes I just randomly click on google maps/streetview
2020-06-17T01:55:55 < karlp> I mean, I'd even be happy to meet cracki if they came here :)
2020-06-17T01:56:11 < PaulFertser> webcam looking at $10 DMM with OpenCV reading the digits.
2020-06-17T01:56:17 < qyx> to see nice places
2020-06-17T01:56:55 < karlp> PaulFertser: already have the camera on the list, for "yes, I totally have more time to experiment with machine vision" but that doesn't actually solve the "how do you power the dmm long term" issue :)
2020-06-17T01:57:17 < karlp> I was actyually out hiking with my slovakian friend on sunday
2020-06-17T01:58:45 < ds2> there are quite a few cheap DMMs around with an optical cable link
2020-06-17T01:59:09 < karlp> this is only $40 https://www.banggood.com/WH5000-Digital-Multimeter-5999-Counts-with-USB-Interface-Auto-Range-with-Backlight-Magnet-hang-AC-DC-Ammeter-Voltmeter-Ohm-p-1537097.html?rmmds=search&cur_warehouse=CN
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2020-06-17T02:03:27 < qyx> karlp: where exactly?
2020-06-17T02:03:50 < qyx> hm is it actually possible to connect a 32K TCXO to STM32
2020-06-17T02:17:39 < qyx> oh it is in the RM
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2020-06-17T03:29:14 < englishman> I got a new office
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2020-06-17T04:12:21 < upgrdman> englishman, pix?
2020-06-17T04:13:15 < englishman> eh it's nothing special but it's large, in the corner and has a view of a little river
2020-06-17T04:15:44 < upgrdman> cool
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2020-06-17T04:27:47 < jly> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WL1foQKD3OI
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2020-06-17T08:05:18 < jadew> finally... windows reports which program is using the file you can't delete/rename
2020-06-17T08:07:24 < jadew> http://5.12.180.177/stuff/cannot_rename.jpg
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2020-06-17T08:28:33 < dongs> waht
2020-06-17T08:28:39 < dongs> it has been doing that for literally years
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2020-06-17T08:50:00 < Thorn> wi-fi+BLE, linux + bare metal support, module https://www.microchip.com/wwwproducts/en/ATWILC3000
2020-06-17T08:51:44 < upgrdman_> "The ATWILC3000 supports single stream 1x1 802.11n mode providing tested throughput of up to 46 Mbps UDP & 28 Mbps TCP/IP"
2020-06-17T08:51:56 < upgrdman_> why do they "udp" but then "tcp/ip" ... why not just "tcp"
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2020-06-17T09:15:40 < jadew> dongs, I just noticed it
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2020-06-17T10:12:26 < Streaker> Windows does that with with network connections as well. If you have a firewall on Windows it will tell you the name of the program that is trying to make a network connection. You can't do that on Linux. (trace a network connection back to the running program)
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2020-06-17T10:13:41 < PaulFertser> Apparently one can order qRT-PCR testing for SARS-CoV-2 in russian cities for 24 EURs, that includes delivery of the special container to you, waiting for you to make a swipe, delivery it back and actually doing the test.
2020-06-17T10:14:17 < Streaker> that's really cheap. the reagents cost a bucket of money.
2020-06-17T10:14:47 < PaulFertser> The primers or the generic PCR reagents?
2020-06-17T10:15:05 < Streaker> I don't know the difference.
2020-06-17T10:16:16 < PaulFertser> Streaker: duh, the test is a standard procedure. It allows to tell the concentration of "something" in the test material. The primers are DNA sequences specific for "something".
2020-06-17T10:17:18 < Streaker> The primers then.
2020-06-17T10:18:09 < PaulFertser> But the bio labs can produce any arbitrary DNA sequences (reasonably short) 
2020-06-17T10:18:44 < PaulFertser> So once the test is developed it should be about the same production cost for the primers as for any other test.
2020-06-17T10:19:02 < PaulFertser> Or does something make SARS-CoV-2 special in this regard?
2020-06-17T10:19:26 < Streaker> maybe its a supply problem. 
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2020-06-17T11:13:13 < Steffanx> /src/gdb/gdb/inline-frame.c:167: internal-error: void inline_frame_this_id(frame_info*, void**, frame_id*): Assertion `frame_id_p (*this_id)' failed. .. awesome <3
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2020-06-17T11:42:26 < PaulFertser> Hm, if I get tested and the result will be positive I'll likely have to go to "observation facility" because I won't agree to use "social monitoring" app.
2020-06-17T11:43:45 < Mangy_Dog> paul got a cough?
2020-06-17T11:43:51 < Mangy_Dog> and where are you?
2020-06-17T11:44:00 < PaulFertser> So on one hand it would be good to know my status indeed. But on the other the ridiculous requirements of moscow authorities make me worried.
2020-06-17T11:44:10 < Mangy_Dog> ohhh russia
2020-06-17T11:45:19 < PaulFertser> Mangy_Dog: not real cough but on thursday I had a sore throat and since then I'm not feeling really fit and I have about 37.1 body temp by every evening.
2020-06-17T11:46:39 < dongs> the fuck is char32_t
2020-06-17T11:46:47 < dongs> fucking C++ wankers
2020-06-17T11:47:16 < dongs> char32_t - type for UTF-32 character representation, required to be large enough to represent any UTF-32 code unit (32 bits). It has the same size, signedness, and alignment as std::uint_least32_t, but is a distinct type.
2020-06-17T11:51:34 < PaulFertser> Mangy_Dog: and in moscow everyone without symptoms can get Ig tested for free. And before you joined I mentioned qRT-PCR test with courier delivering the container home and back to the lab and the testing itself amounts to just 24 EURs.
2020-06-17T11:53:20 < Mangy_Dog> hmmm :(
2020-06-17T11:56:12 < PaulFertser> It doesn't sound too bad does it Mangy_Dog ?
2020-06-17T11:59:15 < Mangy_Dog> I currently dont think you have the virus
2020-06-17T11:59:17 < Mangy_Dog> might just be a cold
2020-06-17T11:59:26 < Mangy_Dog> but being forced to go to a monitoring place
2020-06-17T11:59:30 < Mangy_Dog> for not using a tracking app
2020-06-17T11:59:34 < Mangy_Dog> thats ... dodgy
2020-06-17T11:59:50 < Mangy_Dog> but.... its russia :/
2020-06-17T11:59:58 < Mangy_Dog> putins russia
2020-06-17T12:01:02 < Mangy_Dog> i hope that didnt come across as rude sorry
2020-06-17T12:02:41 < PaulFertser> I've read about 70 % go through it without any symptoms at all. So having mild symptoms doesn't anyhow convince me it's not "it".
2020-06-17T12:03:18 < PaulFertser> Russia is such a mess :/
2020-06-17T12:03:20 < Mangy_Dog> nods
2020-06-17T12:03:55 < Mangy_Dog> given how things are over there, im surpsied anyone bothers to call it a democracy any more
2020-06-17T12:06:04 < Mangy_Dog> though i can talk the uk is utterly fucked
2020-06-17T12:11:57 < PaulFertser> What country is not btw?
2020-06-17T12:13:42 < Mangy_Dog> true
2020-06-17T12:15:09 < PaulFertser> btw, talking about the UK? Some people say you folks got annoyed by "Polish plumbers" and that since brexit you're supposed to not have them anymore and get happier? What part of that is anywhere near true?
2020-06-17T12:16:35 < Mangy_Dog> tbh im not really sure what it was about 
2020-06-17T12:16:46 < Mangy_Dog> certainly a level of far right and nationalism
2020-06-17T12:16:51 < Mangy_Dog> racism played a role
2020-06-17T12:17:10 < PaulFertser> But is it true you had plumbers from eastern europe?
2020-06-17T12:17:33 < Mangy_Dog> we had all sorts of tradespeople from eastern europe
2020-06-17T12:18:49 < PaulFertser> Did you still have them?
2020-06-17T12:18:58 < PaulFertser> Were their services usually of good quality?
2020-06-17T12:18:58 < Mangy_Dog> i guess so
2020-06-17T12:19:07 < PaulFertser> Do you still have them now?
2020-06-17T12:19:12 < Mangy_Dog> tbh yeah no better or worse than brits
2020-06-17T12:19:36 < Mangy_Dog> its just stupid racism politics being played
2020-06-17T12:19:40 < Mangy_Dog> anyway brb
2020-06-17T12:25:08 < Steffanx> dont die PaulFertser
2020-06-17T12:26:13 < PaulFertser> Steffanx: I do not plan doing it yet
2020-06-17T12:34:46 < Mangy_Dog> and yes please dont
2020-06-17T12:34:56 < Mangy_Dog> it would put a real dampener on my day
2020-06-17T12:35:05 < Mangy_Dog> :p
2020-06-17T12:36:15 < PaulFertser> Heh
2020-06-17T12:37:11 < Mangy_Dog> but in all seriousness, if you test positive and you get worse, get all the suport you need
2020-06-17T12:37:20 < PaulFertser> We're all just miniscule dust particles in the Universe. Who cares.
2020-06-17T12:37:28 < Mangy_Dog> it probebly wont amount to anything and youll be fine, but just in case
2020-06-17T12:38:44 < rajkosto> https://twitter.com/echochlo/status/1273099323325153285
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2020-06-17T12:43:09 < Steffanx> Yay, i just heard about a case of possible corona close to me. The first possible case
2020-06-17T12:43:42 < Steffanx> and welcome tcth
2020-06-17T12:43:53 < tcth> hi
2020-06-17T12:43:55 < tcth> gotta go, sorry
2020-06-17T12:43:56 < tcth> take care o/
2020-06-17T12:43:58 < Steffanx> bye
2020-06-17T12:44:00 < tcth> and stay safe.
2020-06-17T12:44:00 < Steffanx> lol
2020-06-17T12:44:03 < Steffanx> nah
2020-06-17T12:47:23 < Cracki> thx jadew, didn't notice the process info either. the "new" dialog hardly changed from the one that didn't have this info so I never noticed
2020-06-17T12:50:01 < Mangy_Dog> is it just bad practice and can i just safely ignore " crosses initialization of" errors? I have a goto that skips the inits and jumps to the end of the function. Even though those vars arent used if skipped. or should i still put all the vars above the goto anyway for clean code?
2020-06-17T12:50:40 < Mangy_Dog> alternitivly i can just wrap the code in a big if statement that would do the same as the goto
2020-06-17T12:54:00 < Mangy_Dog> fekk it ill wrap the code in the big if
2020-06-17T12:54:09 -!- renn0xtk9 [~max@2a02:810d:1540:61b8:6c95:1a66:6dac:f2c7] has quit [Quit: Konversation terminated!]
2020-06-17T12:55:14 < Mangy_Dog> took all of 3 seconds :p
2020-06-17T12:55:30 < Cracki> show code
2020-06-17T12:55:49 < Mangy_Dog> no need it really was a stupid goto
2020-06-17T12:55:53 < Mangy_Dog> not sure why i didnt just if it before
2020-06-17T12:56:23 < Cracki> jumps to end of function... sounds like you want a return, unless there is something else before the end
2020-06-17T12:57:18 < Mangy_Dog> hmmmmmm
2020-06-17T12:57:33 < Mangy_Dog> never having used return before....... i didnt think of that
2020-06-17T12:57:41 < Cracki> wat
2020-06-17T12:58:36 < Cracki> you'll be excited to learn that a function can return a value, and you do that by saying "return whatever;"
2020-06-17T12:59:11 < Mangy_Dog> i mean
2020-06-17T12:59:13 < Mangy_Dog> sorry
2020-06-17T12:59:16 < Mangy_Dog> yes i used return
2020-06-17T12:59:17 < Cracki> or it doesn't return anything, then just "return;" if you're in the middle of it, or just "fall off the end" as you probably do already
2020-06-17T12:59:20 < Mangy_Dog> for returning a value
2020-06-17T12:59:29 < Mangy_Dog> but using return to kill a function
2020-06-17T12:59:32 < Cracki> heh
2020-06-17T12:59:46 < Mangy_Dog> not dont that before
2020-06-17T13:02:35 < Mangy_Dog> https://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/product/B076HX6Y3D/  so i just received this in the post, but its not this. the lable on mine is white and theres no screws to take it apart like in the picture :/ which is why i got this one so i could take it apart and take the power board out and use it inside the reflow oven to power the arduino :/
2020-06-17T13:03:08 < Cracki> take a knife to the seam
2020-06-17T13:03:16 < Mangy_Dog> going to try to
2020-06-17T13:03:40 < Cracki> "wall wart teardown" or sth to see innards
2020-06-17T13:04:00 < Mangy_Dog> this case isnt going to come apart easily
2020-06-17T13:04:01 < Mangy_Dog> :/
2020-06-17T13:04:19 < Mangy_Dog> i think iy might be snapped shut but really REALLY strong snaps
2020-06-17T13:04:25 < Mangy_Dog> or a hidden screw as well
2020-06-17T13:04:35 < Cracki> likely glued
2020-06-17T13:04:51 < Cracki> check out some yt vids
2020-06-17T13:05:02 < Mangy_Dog> not sure i can slightly pull at the sceme but using lots of my strength
2020-06-17T13:06:03 < Cracki> prying tools
2020-06-17T13:06:12 < Cracki> or saw it oopen
2020-06-17T13:06:18 < Mangy_Dog> my spudger cant get into the groove
2020-06-17T13:06:20 < Mangy_Dog> its too tight
2020-06-17T13:06:23 < Cracki> you don't need the case anyway
2020-06-17T13:06:36 < Mangy_Dog> true
2020-06-17T13:06:42 < Mangy_Dog> but not keen on smashing it
2020-06-17T13:06:53 < Mangy_Dog> if it turns out the insides are completely unsafe id like amazon to replace it
2020-06-17T13:06:55 < Mangy_Dog> refund
2020-06-17T13:07:08 < Cracki> hahahahah if you open it up, that's not gonna happen anyway
2020-06-17T13:08:12 < Mangy_Dog> well i get the feeling if i pull up UK safety standards law and claim the product is not legally fit or safe to be sold in the UK
2020-06-17T13:09:14 < Mangy_Dog> all walk in shops products must meet saftey standards to be sold
2020-06-17T13:09:15 < Cracki> would require you to prove that it isn't
2020-06-17T13:09:32 < Mangy_Dog> yeah a photo showing lack of clear mains to low voltage seperation
2020-06-17T13:09:57 < Cracki> depends on what the law precisely requires that to be
2020-06-17T13:10:17 < Cracki> if you say "looks sketchy", amazon will say "looks pried open"
2020-06-17T13:10:28 < Mangy_Dog> ideally the law states there must be a clear spark gap in the pcb design (a etched out space) but id settle for a good distance between traces
2020-06-17T13:10:59 < Mangy_Dog> all walk in shops must have certificates for electrocal products
2020-06-17T13:11:34 < Mangy_Dog> typically this is a most basic formality and assumed from the supplier... as its already been tested to be in the Uk supply chain
2020-06-17T13:11:43 < Mangy_Dog> amazon market place is different of course and skips a lot of that
2020-06-17T13:12:02 < Mangy_Dog> but amazon are still bound to the same laws that all electrical products must meet british safty standards to be sold
2020-06-17T13:12:31 < Mangy_Dog> ahhaa progress
2020-06-17T13:12:35 < Mangy_Dog> one smapped release
2020-06-17T13:13:09 < Mangy_Dog> aaand its open
2020-06-17T13:14:18 < Mangy_Dog> ok no etching
2020-06-17T13:14:29 < Mangy_Dog> but there is a 5mm trace gap between low and high voltage
2020-06-17T13:15:05 < Mangy_Dog> but very little trace gap between live and neutral on the main sside
2020-06-17T13:15:06 < Mangy_Dog> thats not great
2020-06-17T13:15:55 < Mangy_Dog> youd think there be some proper terminals for the mains wires and the barreljack wire
2020-06-17T13:16:14 < Mangy_Dog> but it loosk like theyre just solderd to some available pins on the pcb like an after thought
2020-06-17T13:22:07 < Mangy_Dog> https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/538814618106331139/722757067261214750/IMG_20200617_111743.jpg https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/538814618106331139/722757138526502952/IMG_20200617_111724.jpg  
2020-06-17T13:25:31 < Cracki> eh looks okish
2020-06-17T13:25:47 < Mangy_Dog> yeah ish
2020-06-17T13:25:55 < Mangy_Dog> could have been a lot worse
2020-06-17T13:25:57 < Cracki> those points can be anywhere because wires
2020-06-17T13:26:14 < Mangy_Dog> nodnods but it shows a lack of planning on the designers part
2020-06-17T13:27:21 < Cracki> the front side of the board has V- and V+ labeled
2020-06-17T13:27:30 < Cracki> they should have stuck the wires in those holes instead
2020-06-17T13:27:39 < Mangy_Dog> yeah they didnt 
2020-06-17T13:27:46 < Mangy_Dog> instead the wires go to a completely different spot
2020-06-17T13:28:34 < Mangy_Dog> hmm the two sides are connected
2020-06-17T13:28:47 < Mangy_Dog> ie voltage out pins are on the same traces
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2020-06-17T13:29:38 < Mangy_Dog> hmm ok
2020-06-17T13:29:41 < Mangy_Dog> i see why they did that
2020-06-17T13:29:50 < Mangy_Dog> wired directly to the output capacitor
2020-06-17T13:29:59 < Mangy_Dog> maybe its cleaner than going through the traces
2020-06-17T13:30:38 < Mangy_Dog> i admit i dont know anywhere near enough to judge the circuit design itself
2020-06-17T13:30:46 < Mangy_Dog> i really want to learn power supplies a bit more
2020-06-17T13:32:20 < Cracki> top side markings indicate that a cap is missing or a variant
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2020-06-17T13:32:30 < Mangy_Dog> yeah
2020-06-17T13:32:32 < Mangy_Dog> i noticed that too
2020-06-17T13:32:37 < Mangy_Dog> maybe just cheaped out
2020-06-17T13:32:54 < Mangy_Dog> hm,mmm therees an l2 missing as well
2020-06-17T13:33:04 < Mangy_Dog> why would they use an inductor on the output?
2020-06-17T13:34:19 < Cracki> before or after the cap
2020-06-17T13:34:32 < Cracki> electronics love to pull wildly varying amounts of current
2020-06-17T13:34:57 < Mangy_Dog> not sure
2020-06-17T13:35:06 < Mangy_Dog> almost paralell
2020-06-17T13:35:32 < Mangy_Dog> there also looks to be a copper bridge between the two sides of the l2
2020-06-17T13:35:36 < Mangy_Dog> like to cut
2020-06-17T13:35:45 < Mangy_Dog> soo i guess its a optional thing for another rev
2020-06-17T13:35:47 < Mangy_Dog> or model
2020-06-17T13:35:52 < Mangy_Dog> that this board can do
2020-06-17T13:36:44 < Cracki> pr0s would note all the solder joints and components, rip of them off, then digitize the copper, and draw a schematic :>
2020-06-17T13:36:45 < Mangy_Dog> anyway i think it would do the job
2020-06-17T13:36:48 < Mangy_Dog> wont be sending back to amazon :p
2020-06-17T13:37:04 < Mangy_Dog> big clive would
2020-06-17T13:37:08 < Mangy_Dog> i cant be arsed
2020-06-17T13:37:24 < Mangy_Dog> got enough other things to do
2020-06-17T13:37:43 < Mangy_Dog> it would be simple enough to draw up a schematic but might take an hour or so
2020-06-17T13:37:53 < Cracki> can you live with not knowing
2020-06-17T13:37:58 < Mangy_Dog> yes
2020-06-17T13:38:04 < Cracki> but the uncertainty!
2020-06-17T13:38:11 < Mangy_Dog> :p
2020-06-17T13:38:19 < Mangy_Dog> tbh there still is the whole.... Does it produce 5v
2020-06-17T13:38:26 < Mangy_Dog> i didnt even test
2020-06-17T13:39:07 < Mangy_Dog> one thing i still need to sort out is how im going to mount the componants inside the oven
2020-06-17T13:40:46 < Mangy_Dog> gonna go afk for a bit
2020-06-17T13:40:54 < Mangy_Dog> need to clean up the new display brezel
2020-06-17T13:41:23 < PaulFertser> Mangy_Dog: how do you plan to evaluate CY1 quality?
2020-06-17T13:42:26 < PaulFertser> If you care about isolation and safety how do you tell if it's ok without testing it with 1.5 kV or some such?
2020-06-17T13:48:14 < Mangy_Dog> cy1?
2020-06-17T13:48:17 < Mangy_Dog> and 1kv? :o
2020-06-17T13:48:21 < Mangy_Dog> its only british mains
2020-06-17T13:50:27 < PaulFertser> Mangy_Dog: CY1 that connects primary to secondary, yes. And british doesn't make anything immune from lightning strikes etc. So a 1 kV transient is possible.
2020-06-17T13:52:31 < Mangy_Dog> its very unlikely
2020-06-17T13:52:46 < Mangy_Dog> the distro box and inlet breakers would trip
2020-06-17T13:53:15 < Mangy_Dog> in fact out rdc is soooooo sensitive if a lightning strike happens within a mile it trips
2020-06-17T13:53:51 < PaulFertser> Mangy_Dog: it happens faster than the breakers tripping.
2020-06-17T13:54:13 < PaulFertser> Mangy_Dog: I'm fairly sure CY1 part must be rated for more than 1 kV, and with this china shit you can't count on that.
2020-06-17T13:54:27 < PaulFertser> Mangy_Dog: please stay here to get advice from a real EE.
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2020-06-17T13:56:30 < Mangy_Dog> :D
2020-06-17T13:56:31 < PaulFertser> Mangy_Dog: I think it must be good up to 2.5 kV transients.
2020-06-17T13:57:47 < Mangy_Dog> well tbh if we did have a direct lightning strike that could trigger that here... i think id be more worried about other stuff than the arduino module in my reflow oven :p
2020-06-17T14:01:46 < zyp> hrm, the nickel strip I got for my battery has the wrong pitch
2020-06-17T14:01:59 < zyp> so there won't be any battery assembly today
2020-06-17T14:04:36 < PaulFertser> zyp: do you have experience with mains, what do you think about the necessary CY1 rating in Mangy_Dog's device? IEC 60950 says for 150--300 V RMS it's 2500 V overvoltage category for consumer equipment.
2020-06-17T14:05:24 < PaulFertser> "safety rated Y2 capacitor" must be used
2020-06-17T14:06:06 < PaulFertser> http://www.kemet.com/Lists/FileStore/900%20Series%20Product%20Training%20Module.pdf
2020-06-17T14:07:01 < zyp> I've designed a mains connected board, but I'm not an expert on the requirements involved
2020-06-17T14:07:51 < zyp> I used an AC/DC module for the power supply, so I hope that takes care of the worst, and then I've tried to keep reasonable clearance
2020-06-17T14:08:11 < Streaker> Mangy_Dog: did you notice there is no feedback from the secondary to the primary (for voltage regulation)
2020-06-17T14:08:39 < Mangy_Dog> ive not looked removely that closely at the circuit
2020-06-17T14:08:40 < Mangy_Dog> tbh
2020-06-17T14:09:25 < Streaker> I've used a few cheap crap wall warts over the years, but this one wins some awards.
2020-06-17T14:09:29 < PaulFertser> Streaker: probably it has a separate secondary winding for the feedback.
2020-06-17T14:10:04 < PaulFertser> But of course that's unreasonable if you're supposed to get fully stabilised output.
2020-06-17T14:10:29 < Streaker> Mangy_Dog: what's the part number on the DIP chip?
2020-06-17T14:11:34 < Mangy_Dog> dk1203
2020-06-17T14:11:48 < Mangy_Dog> im also semi afk and going to go for an hour in a sec
2020-06-17T14:11:50 < Mangy_Dog> getting lunch
2020-06-17T14:11:56 < Streaker> oh ok. There's an opto on the other side. hidden by the transformer.
2020-06-17T14:12:25 < PaulFertser> Streaker: the feedback optocouple is on the other side of the transformer
2020-06-17T14:12:29 < PaulFertser> Yes, hidden there
2020-06-17T14:12:57 < Streaker> still not great. zener diode regulation.
2020-06-17T14:13:02 < zyp> just looked at the photos, can somebody give me a tl;dr?
2020-06-17T14:13:09 < zyp> at a glance it looks reasonable
2020-06-17T14:13:20 < PaulFertser> All things considered, it's not obvious if this device is safe according to IEC 60950.
2020-06-17T14:13:29 < Streaker> No filtering on the input. probably illegal to use in the UK for that reason.
2020-06-17T14:13:50 < PaulFertser> zyp: my idea is that CY1 can't be trusted because it's some random china junk. 
2020-06-17T14:14:24 < PaulFertser> And not a safety rated Y2 capacitor.
2020-06-17T14:15:13 < zyp> how can you tell?
2020-06-17T14:16:11 < PaulFertser> Can't trust random chinese adapter from amazon.
2020-06-17T14:16:14 < zyp> from what I can see, I'd say I don't see anything obviously bad, so it's probably good enough
2020-06-17T14:16:23 < Streaker> You should never buy anything from Amazon. That's the conclusion I'm coming to lately. The only thing they excel at is making cheap trash look like passable quality.
2020-06-17T14:16:46 < zyp> I don't think Amazon made this :)
2020-06-17T14:16:47 < Streaker> Imagine paying 25 pounds for this garbage.
2020-06-17T14:16:50 < dongs> {}, {}, {}, {}, {}, {}, {},
2020-06-17T14:16:53 < dongs> wtf is this in cunt++11
2020-06-17T14:16:55 < PaulFertser> Streaker: "amazon best choice" videos from lockpickinglawyer is a perfect example :)
2020-06-17T14:16:58 < dongs> is that same as { 0, } in C?
2020-06-17T14:17:02 < Cracki> *you made dis I made dis meme*
2020-06-17T14:17:10 < zyp> dongs, probably?
2020-06-17T14:17:11 < dongs> or is this some pourous array shit
2020-06-17T14:17:14 < dongs> idk man
2020-06-17T14:17:23 < zyp> you pasted too little to tell
2020-06-17T14:17:28 < dongs> thats literally all there is
2020-06-17T14:17:35 < Cracki> seven outer elements, inner init default
2020-06-17T14:17:46 < Cracki> array of structs?
2020-06-17T14:17:52 < Mangy_Dog> https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/538814618106331139/722771918675247164/IMG_20200617_121643.jpg
2020-06-17T14:17:58 < Streaker> but {} doesn't mean anything other than creating a new scope in C++ no?
2020-06-17T14:17:58 < Cracki> seven default-inited structs is my bet
2020-06-17T14:17:59 < Mangy_Dog> https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/538814618106331139/722771960408309780/IMG_20200617_121654.jpg
2020-06-17T14:18:03 < Mangy_Dog> some better top down photos
2020-06-17T14:18:24 < Cracki> can you read that chip?
2020-06-17T14:18:30 < Cracki> the markings
2020-06-17T14:18:57 < Cracki> both chips even
2020-06-17T14:19:20 < Mangy_Dog> dk1203
2020-06-17T14:19:25 < Mangy_Dog> is the big controller chip
2020-06-17T14:19:32 < Mangy_Dog> the other i think is a opto
2020-06-17T14:20:03 < Cracki> ic
2020-06-17T14:20:15 < Cracki> http://grupoautcomp.com.br/wp-content/uploads/2016/11/Specification-IC-DK1203.pdf
2020-06-17T14:20:16 < Streaker> made by dongs apparently... 
2020-06-17T14:20:18 < Streaker> SHENZHEN DONGKE SEMICONDUCTOR CO., LTD
2020-06-17T14:20:31 < Cracki> has a feedback pin at least
2020-06-17T14:20:36 < dongs> isnt that your typical chink pwm controller
2020-06-17T14:20:51 < dongs> o one of those high voltage shits
2020-06-17T14:21:04 < Cracki> >With integrated 700V high voltage power transistor
2020-06-17T14:21:14 < dongs> > in dip8 package
2020-06-17T14:21:21 < dongs> is that even enough spacing between pins for 700v
2020-06-17T14:21:21 < Cracki> 65 khz, 4-6v
2020-06-17T14:21:28 < Cracki> lol
2020-06-17T14:21:46 < Cracki> maybe if you epoxy it all
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2020-06-17T14:26:02 < Streaker> How much would it cost to manufacture this?
2020-06-17T14:28:43 < dongs> manufacture what
2020-06-17T14:28:54 < dongs> you can buy chink 12V1A power brick for liek $0.50
2020-06-17T14:28:58 < dongs> so prolly less than that
2020-06-17T14:29:09 < dongs> that chip is prolyl $0.01, the transformer is prolly the most expensive part
2020-06-17T14:31:01 < englishman> PaulFertser: isnt 60950 over at the end of the year anyway
2020-06-17T14:31:28 < englishman> 62368 is coming
2020-06-17T14:34:57 < Streaker> can you really buy an adaptor for 50 cents?
2020-06-17T14:35:08 < Mangy_Dog> oh well
2020-06-17T14:35:10 < Mangy_Dog> gonna return it
2020-06-17T14:35:15 < Mangy_Dog> pick up one from theshops
2020-06-17T14:35:32 < Mangy_Dog> caqn get one for 5 quid from homebase
2020-06-17T14:35:37 < Mangy_Dog> at least that would have had to pass safty checks
2020-06-17T14:35:40 < Streaker> Mangy_Dog: and they will re-sell it to someone else. and now it is not waterproof, so someone will get electrocuted.
2020-06-17T14:35:52 < Mangy_Dog> and amazon would get sued
2020-06-17T14:36:02 < Mangy_Dog> also it was never water proof
2020-06-17T14:36:04 < Cracki> aliex dispute process has a field for the seller to respond... instead they messaged me outside of the dispute process. scam?
2020-06-17T14:36:10 < Mangy_Dog> was just a basic snap shut plastic
2020-06-17T14:36:18 < Streaker> no glue?
2020-06-17T14:36:19 < Mangy_Dog> this is amazon
2020-06-17T14:36:21 < Mangy_Dog> no glue
2020-06-17T14:37:28 < PaulFertser> englishman: probably, I've no clue really, hence I suggested to wait for a real EE to comment on that, thank you.
2020-06-17T14:42:11 < dongs> Cracki: prolly yea
2020-06-17T14:42:52 < Cracki> good good
2020-06-17T14:43:10 < dongs> ok so this gay C++ shit does uint8_t*& out
2020-06-17T14:43:30 < dongs> that means they fucking modify it inside the function and expect it to stay that way after call isnt it
2020-06-17T14:43:30 < Cracki> *&, reference to pointer to uint8, wew
2020-06-17T14:44:18 < Cracki> ye they must be changing that pointer for some reason
2020-06-17T14:44:23 < dongs> should be ~equiv to a uint8_t ** right ?
2020-06-17T14:44:35 < Cracki> pretty much
2020-06-17T14:45:04 < Cracki> except *out = newptr (**) vs out = newptr (*&)
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2020-06-17T14:48:07 < PaulFertser> https://habrastorage.org/webt/4x/jc/ka/4xjcka6ldfy-efagqsxwbtyq43c.jpeg ghetto mains 
2020-06-17T14:49:50 < tcth> is that construction foam? q__q
2020-06-17T14:52:47 < PaulFertser> Looks like it!
2020-06-17T14:52:54 < dongs> god damn what fucking faggot invented & in C++
2020-06-17T14:53:24 < zyp> references?
2020-06-17T14:53:28 < dongs> yeah
2020-06-17T14:53:44 < dongs> see my rant above
2020-06-17T14:53:52 < zyp> um
2020-06-17T14:54:16 < zyp> references are good, but yeah, who the fuck makes a reference to a pointer
2020-06-17T14:54:44 < dongs> im failing to wrap my head around it and the worst thing is, if I just cahnge to ** most of the shit compiles while being hopelessly buggy
2020-06-17T14:55:06 < dongs> i.e. uint8_t **out; and out++ and shit still works
2020-06-17T14:55:09 < zyp> well, *& is not exactly equal to **
2020-06-17T14:55:29 -!- tcth [~tcth@77.109.191.152] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds]
2020-06-17T14:55:34 < zyp> I guess close enough that swapping might actually compile, but then it won't do the right thing
2020-06-17T14:55:51 < dongs> sure it will
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2020-06-17T14:56:05 < zyp> no, it won't
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2020-06-17T14:56:09 < dongs> wy nto
2020-06-17T14:56:29 < dongs> uint8_t*& out, size_t& out_size, inside the function it does
2020-06-17T14:56:35 < dongs> *out++ = code;
2020-06-17T14:56:38 < dongs> --out_size
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2020-06-17T14:57:17 < dongs> i'd prolly need to write something gay like
2020-06-17T14:57:28 < dongs> (*out)++ = code?
2020-06-17T14:57:35 < dongs> if i switched to uint8_t **outr
2020-06-17T14:57:57 < dongs> but problem is i'd need to comb each fucking shit line by line and make sure to convert it
2020-06-17T14:58:03 < dongs> or else it will build and have weird bugs
2020-06-17T14:58:06 < zyp> I'm not sure I get why it's even a refereence
2020-06-17T14:58:15 < dongs> they're modifying the pointer
2020-06-17T14:58:21 < zyp> but why?
2020-06-17T14:58:21 < dongs> they put the data in it
2020-06-17T14:58:26 < dongs> and increment it/wahtever
2020-06-17T14:58:40 < dongs> cuz its a buffer of stuff being worked on? idk
2020-06-17T14:58:55 < zyp> can you pastebin the full function so I can get some more context for what's going on?
2020-06-17T14:59:55 < dongs> its on shithub, sec
2020-06-17T15:00:08 < dongs> https://github.com/tsduck/tsduck/blob/0e97b42ed61c6bd0e43568df48f70cc937a0ada6/src/libtsduck/dtv/charset/tsARIBCharset.cpp#L747
2020-06-17T15:00:23 < zyp> ok, hang on
2020-06-17T15:00:30 < dongs> like i said, they modify the 'out' buffer and increment it
2020-06-17T15:00:35 < PaulFertser> dongs: why is that you do not want to compile the whole project as C++ ?
2020-06-17T15:00:46 < dongs> PaulFertser: fucking lol because C+_+ is aids
2020-06-17T15:01:00 < PaulFertser> Is that the only reason?
2020-06-17T15:01:02 < dongs> yes
2020-06-17T15:01:12 < dongs> there is no reason why that shit is iN C++
2020-06-17T15:01:14 < dongs> at all
2020-06-17T15:01:26 < PaulFertser> But if it already is, why bother with converting to C...
2020-06-17T15:01:34 < dongs> because i dont need it in C++
2020-06-17T15:03:05 < PaulFertser> Then you just have to convert references to proper pointers and do not forget to dereference them since they're no longer references, there's no way round that.
2020-06-17T15:03:10 < PaulFertser> duh
2020-06-17T15:03:14 < dongs> thats what im doing
2020-06-17T15:03:20 < PaulFertser> wankery
2020-06-17T15:03:24 < dongs> engative
2020-06-17T15:03:26 < dongs> negative
2020-06-17T15:03:31 < dongs> i prefer the term "de-niggering"
2020-06-17T15:03:37 < zyp> I'm just curious why it's references in the first place, looks like some crazy shit
2020-06-17T15:03:46 < dongs> zyp, typical french coding
2020-06-17T15:04:15 < dongs> believe it or not, this is the *cleanest* implementation of b24 encoder
2020-06-17T15:04:21 < dongs> there's shit far, far worse
2020-06-17T15:05:57 < PaulFertser> And the french do not even need all those ideographic awesome cultural heritage written languages!
2020-06-17T15:06:09 < zyp> but yeah, looks like the buffer pointer is a reference because the buffer is being passed around and appended to from various functions
2020-06-17T15:06:36 < dongs> yes
2020-06-17T15:06:54 < zyp> that's just an awfully ugly way of doing it
2020-06-17T15:08:28 < PaulFertser> What "embedded C++" API would you implement there?
2020-06-17T15:08:36 < Cracki> uhm, that function (L747) doesn't ever change out or out_size. why are they references at all
2020-06-17T15:08:47 < dongs> yes it does
2020-06-17T15:08:58 < dongs> at the end
2020-06-17T15:08:58 < Cracki> hm ok outsize is changed
2020-06-17T15:09:02 < dongs> out too
2020-06-17T15:09:16 < Cracki> is *out++ precisely what they intend to happen?
2020-06-17T15:09:21 < dongs> yes
2020-06-17T15:09:25 < Cracki> oh well
2020-06-17T15:09:34 < Cracki> *(*out)++
2020-06-17T15:09:38 < Cracki> if you change it to **
2020-06-17T15:10:02 < Thorn> my mp1 board should be delivered tomorrow
2020-06-17T15:10:06 < dongs> right
2020-06-17T15:10:21 < dongs> fuckin aids, jsut gotta go through line by line and make sure i didnt miss something
2020-06-17T15:10:22 < Cracki> but why change the sig, I'd keep it
2020-06-17T15:10:52 < Cracki> uint8_t *out = ...; size_t out_size = ...; encodeSpace(out, out_size, ...)
2020-06-17T15:11:15 < dongs> cuz it has a bool when it fails to encode
2020-06-17T15:11:23 < Cracki> ok
2020-06-17T15:12:05 < Cracki> so... uint8_t *out = ...; size_t out_size = ...; bool result = encodeSpace(out, out_size, ...); if (result)...
2020-06-17T15:12:23 < Cracki> I'm probably missing something
2020-06-17T15:12:26 < dongs> wat
2020-06-17T15:12:51 < dongs> if out_size is passed by value how is it gonna be modified outside of function
2020-06-17T15:12:57 < Cracki> reference works like that
2020-06-17T15:13:05 < dongs> yes but im not using C++
2020-06-17T15:13:16 < Cracki> void meh(int &x) { x += 20 } int foo = 10; meh(foo); foo == 20
2020-06-17T15:13:21 < dongs> yes, i know
2020-06-17T15:13:32 < Cracki> ah alright
2020-06-17T15:14:10 < mawk> >going from C++ to C
2020-06-17T15:14:12 < Cracki> encodeSpace(uint8_t **out, size_t *out_size, ...) {...}  ...   uint8_t *out = ...; size_t out_size = ...; bool result = encodeSpace(&out, &out_size, ...); if (result)...
2020-06-17T15:14:21 < mawk> you're going on the wrong direction of Progress and Harmony
2020-06-17T15:14:23 < mawk> you should keep the C++
2020-06-17T15:14:27 < dongs> yep thats wat im doing cracki
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2020-06-17T15:22:42 < dongs> ok i think i got it
2020-06-17T15:22:46 < dongs> lets see if it crashes
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2020-06-17T15:24:42 < karlp> why didn't mangy just buy an enclosed frame supply, instead of a wall wart if they wanted it to be like that?
2020-06-17T15:26:13 < englishman> my maneki neko stopped working
2020-06-17T15:26:23 < englishman> battery is charged and doesn't droop under load
2020-06-17T15:26:33 < englishman> any pro EEs want to chime in
2020-06-17T15:27:12 < Steffanx> You're out  of luck
2020-06-17T15:30:23 < dongs> when it does memcpy(out to a &* thing, i have to dereference right?
2020-06-17T15:30:27 < dongs> memcpy(*out
2020-06-17T15:33:59 < dongs> hm yeah its doing right thing
2020-06-17T15:34:02 < dongs> but fucking somewehre else
2020-06-17T15:34:02 < dongs> damn
2020-06-17T15:36:31 < Cracki> I last touched a maneki neko in 2016 or so. I scoped the coil and saw some a weak wide pulse on it in regular intervals. I think it sensed the mechanics and only tried to power things if they were already moving
2020-06-17T15:37:46 < Cracki> https://hackaday.com/2018/06/01/an-electromagnet-brings-harmony-to-this-waving-cat/
2020-06-17T15:39:51 < dongs> oh duh i forgot to init somethign
2020-06-17T15:46:12 < Cracki> maneki neko https://pr0gramm.com/new/winkekatze/2988898
2020-06-17T15:50:55 < PaulFertser> Thank you Cracki , an intertaining read that article linked from HaD was
2020-06-17T15:52:28 < PaulFertser> Knife-edge bearings, huh
2020-06-17T15:52:31 < mawk> it's time to learn french PaulFertser 
2020-06-17T15:52:55 < mawk> repeat after me: je prête allégeance au capitalisme éternel et je jure de le protéger de ma vie
2020-06-17T15:53:01 < PaulFertser> mawk: to read Bourbaki in original?
2020-06-17T15:53:08 < mawk> ah yes or that
2020-06-17T15:53:20 < mawk> bourbaki has the same first name as me
2020-06-17T15:56:10 < PaulFertser> mawk: it kinda sounds a bit like I'm supposed to swear to protect capitalism.
2020-06-17T15:56:30 < PaulFertser> Probably it's a good thing I can't read French after all.
2020-06-17T15:56:45 < mawk> lol
2020-06-17T15:57:08 < mawk> see you can already read it
2020-06-17T15:57:25 < Cracki> Voulez-vous émeuter avec moi
2020-06-17T15:57:30 < mawk> lol
2020-06-17T15:57:51 < mawk> willen Sie demonstrieren mit mich
2020-06-17T15:57:51 < Cracki> no I'm not smart, I just use garble trannylate
2020-06-17T16:00:01 < Cracki> "sodium batteries" are a thing now, I'm reading
2020-06-17T16:00:21 < Cracki> *natrium
2020-06-17T16:02:37 < PaulFertser> "I eventually have torn an internal wire and had to rewire the tonearm, then waiting some days, that the new cables run in" <- are they seriously thinking tonearm wires are changing anyhow over the usage?
2020-06-17T16:03:14 < Streaker> break-in is a big deal in audiophile circles
2020-06-17T16:03:30 < dongs> yes
2020-06-17T16:03:39 < dongs> when you buy that oxygen-free data-only USB cable
2020-06-17T16:03:49 < dongs> ytou gotta spend like 2 weeks burning it in
2020-06-17T16:03:53 < dongs> by playing some particular muzak
2020-06-17T16:04:04 < Cracki> PaulFertser, the contacts might
2020-06-17T16:04:09 < Cracki> needs moar corrosion
2020-06-17T16:04:17 < Cracki> moar voltage moar burn-in
2020-06-17T16:04:41 < Cracki> it it doesn't glow red like a LED, you aren't burning it in right
2020-06-17T16:05:00 < zyp> I worked for a company making hifi shit a few years ago, the product manual was full of ridiculous bullshit
2020-06-17T16:05:28 < dongs> C++ aids deniggered, works fine
2020-06-17T16:05:31 < Streaker> https://www.musicdirect.com/best-budget-tweaks-under-99/cable-elevators-cable-supports
2020-06-17T16:05:42 < dongs> that 99 is $99, not $0.99
2020-06-17T16:06:09 < dongs> https://www.musicdirect.com/equipment/shunyata-dfss-dark-field-suspension-system
2020-06-17T16:06:20 < dongs> DaRk FiElD SuSpEnSiOn SyStEM
2020-06-17T16:06:28 < Cracki> esotericdirect.com
2020-06-17T16:06:29 < Cracki> https://www.musicdirect.com/equipment/shunyata-dfss-dark-field-suspension-system
2020-06-17T16:06:33 < Cracki> heh
2020-06-17T16:06:59 < Cracki> "interference from boundaries"
2020-06-17T16:07:02 < Cracki> ?!?!?
2020-06-17T16:07:52 < Cracki> ah, 4pm honey time for your electrical field flattening
2020-06-17T16:09:43 < PaulFertser> Now if we combine mawk's French culture and catphish's love for the fast cars, it's time to enjoy https://www.invidio.us/watch?v=WJYOMFayruw
2020-06-17T16:09:56 < Cracki> snail race
2020-06-17T16:10:03 < dongs> is this some retarded youtube clone
2020-06-17T16:10:07 < dongs> its still waiting to open the page
2020-06-17T16:10:17 < dongs> The media could not be loaded, either because the server or network failed or because the format is not supported.
2020-06-17T16:10:21 < dongs> lul
2020-06-17T16:10:30 < Cracki> you can literally rewrite the url to youtube.com/watch...
2020-06-17T16:10:50 < mawk> wow it's a cloudflare thing
2020-06-17T16:10:55 < mawk> The media could not be loaded, either because the server or network failed or because the format is not supported.
2020-06-17T16:11:08 < Cracki> maaan those graphics, it's like 1995 racing simulator
2020-06-17T16:11:19 < mawk> I purchased the cloudflare stream stuff and it gives the exact same error message when there's a failure
2020-06-17T16:11:38 < mawk> I contacted support saying there was a problem in iOS, they told me "find yourself and iphone and come back with a full dump"
2020-06-17T16:12:47 < mawk> it says "the movie you're about to see has been realized without any video editing or fast-forward"
2020-06-17T16:16:55 < zyp> https://www.devaaudio.com/product-page/electrocompaniet-emc-1-mkiv-reference-cd-player <- I worked on this shit
2020-06-17T16:17:46 < zyp> it's a standard cd player module in a fancy package
2020-06-17T16:17:53 < Steffanx> hah
2020-06-17T16:17:57 < Steffanx> CD player :P
2020-06-17T16:18:00 < dongs> ~ reference ~
2020-06-17T16:18:15 < dongs> zyp, i don't see BNC connector for 10MHz rubidum clock reference input
2020-06-17T16:18:22 < dongs> not audiophile enough
2020-06-17T16:18:58 < PaulFertser> Lelouch is a famous director
2020-06-17T16:19:15 < zyp> apparently the module they used in the previous generation went EOL, so they found some new module and tasked me with updating the pcb layout to fit the new FFC pinout and also update the firmware in the avr that controls the thing
2020-06-17T16:19:22 < PaulFertser> Those over-revs during downshifts sounds soo thrilling.
2020-06-17T16:19:45 < zyp> and judging by the fact that there now exists a MKV, I guess it has happened once more after I left that place
2020-06-17T16:20:00 < PaulFertser> dongs: it's not a clone, it's UI to youtube using webscraping with stable API.
2020-06-17T16:20:26 < mawk> yes famous enough that I know his name
2020-06-17T16:20:29 < dongs> well i dont care, it doesnt even work
2020-06-17T16:20:40 < dongs> and it took like 30 seconds to load that apge
2020-06-17T16:20:46 < dongs> is this some ~privacy~ thing
2020-06-17T16:20:50 < dongs> for not getting tracked on jewtube?
2020-06-17T16:22:15 < PaulFertser> dongs: no, it's just that I prefer web surfing with JS turned off.
2020-06-17T16:22:41 < zyp> I read «web suffering», sounds accurate
2020-06-17T16:23:00 < dongs> yeah this is RMS-levels of socially unacceptable
2020-06-17T16:23:02 < PaulFertser> It's suffering either way, that's just how the modern web is.
2020-06-17T16:23:24 < PaulFertser> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WJYOMFayruw is the obvious way to view the same film.
2020-06-17T16:23:31 < dongs> sure
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2020-06-17T16:47:58 < Mangy_Dog> https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/538814618106331139/722809499114536960/IMG_20200617_144331.jpg
2020-06-17T16:48:02 < Mangy_Dog> https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/538814618106331139/722809546606903346/IMG_20200617_144301.jpg
2020-06-17T16:48:19 < Mangy_Dog> picked up this usb adapter for 5 quid from homebase in the uk so it would have been tested and checked
2020-06-17T16:48:39 < Mangy_Dog> much wider lv hv seperation of traces
2020-06-17T16:49:03 < Mangy_Dog> also had some kind of silicone over the wire contacts
2020-06-17T16:51:36 < PaulFertser> IMHO this one should be much better
2020-06-17T16:53:55 < PaulFertser> I wonder if U2 is magical enough to convince different branded device to consume full current from it.
2020-06-17T16:54:51 < Mangy_Dog> its a 2amp so i assume its going to have the negotiation thingy
2020-06-17T16:55:13 < Mangy_Dog> but i wonder if i can just use it as a 2amp supply
2020-06-17T16:55:19 < Mangy_Dog> (not that i need anywhere near 2a
2020-06-17T16:56:21 < PaulFertser> I'd bet you can
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2020-06-17T17:10:28 < PaulFertser> Heat shrink tubes wrapping input protection parts so if they literally blow up the leftovers won't damage/short anything else, nice!
2020-06-17T17:11:51 < PaulFertser> I'd say this device looks like something worth 5 GBP. But, again, not an expert EE opinion.
2020-06-17T17:14:15 < Laurenceb>  quant-informatic blockchain!!!
2020-06-17T17:15:11 < PaulFertser> Laurenceb: what do you think about "Polish plumbers"? Were they numerous in the UK? Are they still numerous? Were you happy with their services?
2020-06-17T17:15:49 < PaulFertser> Or are you your own plumber?
2020-06-17T17:15:54 < Cracki> musics https://pr0gramm.com/top/Wiedermisch/3896046
2020-06-17T17:16:53 < Laurenceb> I've never seen a single one
2020-06-17T17:16:53 < Laurenceb> I had a Polish head teacher at my school
2020-06-17T17:16:53 < Laurenceb> yeah
2020-06-17T17:16:53 < Laurenceb> and met a Polish company manager
2020-06-17T17:16:53 < Laurenceb> and a Polish BMW executive
2020-06-17T17:16:56 < Laurenceb> Polish aristocracy tbh
2020-06-17T17:17:18 < Laurenceb> tbf I've met some Polish farm workers and food processing plant staff too
2020-06-17T17:18:34 < Laurenceb> but yeah I've never seen a Polish building worker of any sort in Norf uk
2020-06-17T17:18:55 < PaulFertser> It's just that some people claim brexit mostly happened with the brits being unhappy with eastern europe workers for whatever reason.
2020-06-17T17:19:07 < Laurenceb> where I live its about 25% polish but thats mostly from ww2
2020-06-17T17:21:15 < Laurenceb> PaulFertser: yeah there are organised "gangmasters" using eastern euro labour in food processing plants and stuff
2020-06-17T17:21:15 < Laurenceb> all the recruitment is outsourced and suddenly there are no jobs advertised
2020-06-17T17:21:16 < Laurenceb> but nobody "hates the poles"
2020-06-17T17:25:55 < dima> I have not seen any Polish plumbers, but quite a few Lithuanian ones.. I guess it depends on the region
2020-06-17T17:26:18 < PaulFertser> Laurenceb: did it change after brexit?
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2020-06-17T17:27:48 < Laurenceb> PaulFertser: yeah, less of the gangmaster activity going on now
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2020-06-17T18:25:01 < Mangy_Dog> the thing is though with all the brexiteers wanting "our country back" and removing any poles and easterns and what not... also totally forget that a lot of these people are doing jobs that no one here wanted to do in the first place
2020-06-17T18:25:13 < Mangy_Dog> that has to be repspected
2020-06-17T18:25:31 < qyx> all workers are returning now with covid19
2020-06-17T18:25:44 < qyx> half of the cases here are UK imported
2020-06-17T18:25:50 < Mangy_Dog> also the white neo nazis also need reminding this is britian... weve been a multi cultural country since the romans invaided and attacked the celts
2020-06-17T18:26:25 < Mangy_Dog> in fact youll be really REALLY hard pushed to find a true brit with fully british heritage in them
2020-06-17T18:26:41 < Mangy_Dog> ie there really isnt any
2020-06-17T18:26:54 < Mangy_Dog> heck even im quater polish
2020-06-17T18:39:44 < Laurenceb> >no one here wanted to do in the first place
2020-06-17T18:40:09 < Laurenceb> the champaign socialist argument
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2020-06-17T18:48:52 < Cracki> lol
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2020-06-17T18:51:52 < Cracki> so the people of england are different from the people of wales, which means they're as different to each other as they are to... any other race on earth. yes, absolutely.
2020-06-17T18:52:26 < Cracki> it's not like there's a degree to the differences
2020-06-17T18:52:29 < Mangy_Dog> the other pro brexiteers who bang on about keeping britain british and what not....... very quickly forget the fucking queens german
2020-06-17T18:52:35 < Mangy_Dog> prince phillip is greek
2020-06-17T18:52:41 < Cracki> "is greek"
2020-06-17T18:52:45 < Cracki> 1% or sth?
2020-06-17T18:52:53 < Mangy_Dog> no fully greek
2020-06-17T18:53:03 < Cracki> that's incredibly racist. you're implying that whatever he is, is a blank piece of paper.
2020-06-17T18:53:10 < Mangy_Dog> lol
2020-06-17T18:53:13 < Cracki> and any amount of "other" blood makes him other
2020-06-17T18:53:22 < Mangy_Dog> i mean he was a greek national before being part of the british monarchy
2020-06-17T18:53:42 < Cracki> oh now the passport suddenly determines his race
2020-06-17T18:53:46 < Mangy_Dog> lol
2020-06-17T18:53:55 < Mangy_Dog> nothing to do with race
2020-06-17T18:54:08 < Mangy_Dog> im just going on about the stupidity of the argument that most brexiteers have
2020-06-17T18:54:20 < Cracki> he was born in greece, hence his blood is greek
2020-06-17T18:54:51 < Cracki> misunderstanding them is hardly an argument
2020-06-17T18:55:27 < Cracki> you do understand that europeans are more similar to each other than they are to, say, the japanese
2020-06-17T18:55:42 < Mangy_Dog> yes of course
2020-06-17T18:55:54 < Cracki> sounded different up there
2020-06-17T18:55:57 < Mangy_Dog> i think youre getting the wrong end of the stick about what im saying
2020-06-17T18:56:22 < Cracki> I hear that you find them offensive
2020-06-17T18:56:28 < Mangy_Dog> ?
2020-06-17T18:56:56 < Cracki> you portray them mockingly
2020-06-17T18:57:09 < Mangy_Dog> i portray brexiteers mockingly
2020-06-17T18:57:31 < Mangy_Dog> im poking the holes in the bullshit idea of british nationalism
2020-06-17T18:57:32 < Cracki> that means you mock merely a caricature of what they truly stand for
2020-06-17T18:58:19 < Cracki> you could address the grievances they have that lead them to seeking solutions, regardless of your opinions on their solutions
2020-06-17T18:58:22 < Mangy_Dog> ill behonest... right now im struggling to tell if youre just playing with me or genuingly offended
2020-06-17T18:59:01 < Cracki> eh, that changes from line to line
2020-06-17T19:00:24 < Cracki> consider that _everyone_ looks for a scapegoat for the problems they themselves have. your scapegoat is the brexiteers. their scapegoat is traitorous politicians
2020-06-17T19:01:09 < Mangy_Dog> well a big problem we all face in the Uk is coming out of the Eu
2020-06-17T19:01:17 < PaulFertser> And it doesn't mean if Cracki is offended or not for reasoning about the questions raised.
2020-06-17T19:01:26 < Mangy_Dog> pretty certain you can blame the whole brexiteer lot for that
2020-06-17T19:01:41 < Cracki> how about blaming the EU for making it so difficult
2020-06-17T19:02:00 < Mangy_Dog> i dont think they are
2020-06-17T19:02:04 < Cracki> ok
2020-06-17T19:02:19 < Mangy_Dog> was the eu organisation perfect
2020-06-17T19:02:19 < Mangy_Dog> No
2020-06-17T19:02:25 < Mangy_Dog> no institution is
2020-06-17T19:02:41 < Mangy_Dog> but working as a coporative together made us all stronger
2020-06-17T19:02:44 < Mangy_Dog> that is without a doubt
2020-06-17T19:02:53 < Mangy_Dog> made is richer
2020-06-17T19:03:12 < Mangy_Dog> culturally and financially
2020-06-17T19:04:18 < Mangy_Dog> my biggest fear leaving the EU is the UK watering down civil liberties and human rights
2020-06-17T19:04:34 < Mangy_Dog> something they have tried to do several times in the past and was blocked by the ECHR
2020-06-17T19:05:09 < Mangy_Dog> there has always been a scary far right element in british politics
2020-06-17T19:05:10 < PaulFertser> Mangy_Dog: do you imply that brexiters weren't trying to solve any real problems? What made them think that exiting the EU is the way forward, just nationalism and false promises?
2020-06-17T19:05:27 < Mangy_Dog> but the EU for the most part was able to keep it at bar
2020-06-17T19:05:28 < Mangy_Dog> bay
2020-06-17T19:05:54 < Mangy_Dog> brexit has been totally and wholeheartidly about nationalism and false promise
2020-06-17T19:06:03 < Mangy_Dog> 100%
2020-06-17T19:08:46 < Cracki> so your course of action is to end the talking and start the glaring
2020-06-17T19:09:12 < Mangy_Dog> nothing i can personally do about it any more
2020-06-17T19:09:30 < Mangy_Dog> i tried voting for the oposision
2020-06-17T19:09:32 < Cracki> they will see you as a direct threat to them if you portray them as you did
2020-06-17T19:09:37 < Mangy_Dog> for all the good that did
2020-06-17T19:09:58 < Cracki> you're one godwin away from calling them hitler
2020-06-17T19:10:07 < Cracki> you think that solves anything?
2020-06-17T19:11:00 < PaulFertser> What can solve the problem of half of your fellow citizens being dumb racists?
2020-06-17T19:11:31 < Cracki> you said the EU kept british problems in check. how about the brits solve their problems without an outside force.
2020-06-17T19:11:57 < Cracki> the only solution to that "problem" I can suggest is to STOP thinking of them as literally hitler
2020-06-17T19:11:58 < Mangy_Dog> about a year ago i got into a debate with some one who actually believed the whole 300 million extra a week for the NHS pledge from brexit
2020-06-17T19:12:09 < Cracki> because _that_ attitude is what fucks your politics up
2020-06-17T19:12:11 < Mangy_Dog> even after it was proven several tiems to be utterly misleading and impossible
2020-06-17T19:13:15 < Cracki> politics is a shell game. some naive guy says "let's shuffle the shells" and doesn't realize that _he_ doesn't have a hand in it.
2020-06-17T19:13:37 < Cracki> all you can blame him for is being naive in thinking things are that easy to change.
2020-06-17T19:14:05 < Mangy_Dog> in the end i just accepted i wont put a dent in his idiology
2020-06-17T19:14:22 < Cracki> he probably thought the same about you. you have something in common.
2020-06-17T19:14:28 < Mangy_Dog> lol
2020-06-17T19:14:29 < Cracki> shake hands maybe
2020-06-17T19:14:32 < Cracki> I'm serious
2020-06-17T19:14:45 < Cracki> you blame them for trying to change something
2020-06-17T19:15:03 < Mangy_Dog> some people just like to watch the world burn
2020-06-17T19:15:10 < Mangy_Dog> (not that i think thats what he thought)
2020-06-17T19:15:23 < Cracki> and some try to *do* something about it instead. not doing anything is literally watching.
2020-06-17T19:15:40 < PaulFertser> Can you say that EU kinda occupied the UK and thus made it more civilised for a while, similar to some african countries colonisation stories?
2020-06-17T19:15:49 < Mangy_Dog> but changing what for what? for some unrealistic idea of a utopia where the british empire rules the world again?
2020-06-17T19:16:02 < PaulFertser> And that you'd be willing to continue the occupation because they're nicer than your own people?
2020-06-17T19:16:07 < Cracki> you seem to be pro-EU, so you are for an EU empire
2020-06-17T19:16:08 < Mangy_Dog> i wouldnt say we were occupide by the eu
2020-06-17T19:16:19 < Mangy_Dog> we were part of the eu
2020-06-17T19:16:21 < Mangy_Dog> we gained from it
2020-06-17T19:16:23 < Mangy_Dog> they gained from us
2020-06-17T19:16:34 < PaulFertser> Same can be said about some former colonies.
2020-06-17T19:16:41 < Mangy_Dog> the eu isnt an empire though
2020-06-17T19:16:58 < Mangy_Dog> its closer to be fedrualised but even that isnt quite correct
2020-06-17T19:17:01 < Cracki> try independence. it's liberating.
2020-06-17T19:17:19 < Mangy_Dog> but we already were independant for teh most part
2020-06-17T19:17:22 < Cracki> the eu is france and germany ruling over the others
2020-06-17T19:17:26 < Mangy_Dog> no it isnt
2020-06-17T19:17:29 < Mangy_Dog> it really isnt
2020-06-17T19:17:34 < Mangy_Dog> int he 2000s the UK was the head of the eu
2020-06-17T19:17:35 < Cracki> ask greece
2020-06-17T19:17:40 < Mangy_Dog> it changes from termn to termn
2020-06-17T19:17:45 < Mangy_Dog> term
2020-06-17T19:18:18 < Mangy_Dog> greece utterly fucked there own ecomony
2020-06-17T19:18:23 < Mangy_Dog> they needed a bailout
2020-06-17T19:18:36 < PaulFertser> But realistically speaking, the strongest economies seem to be setting the rules, no matter whose term it is at a certain moment.
2020-06-17T19:18:43 < Mangy_Dog> if that came with some stipulations on how the money was spent ie assuring it was used wisely
2020-06-17T19:18:46 < Mangy_Dog> whats wrong with that>?
2020-06-17T19:19:29 < PaulFertser> It's not always in your best interest to work for the guy who's got the most money.
2020-06-17T19:19:57 < Mangy_Dog> also greece asked for the money it wasnt like the situation was forced on them from some third party
2020-06-17T19:20:47 < PaulFertser> Probably they'd start proper reorganisation much earlier if they weren't part of the EU.
2020-06-17T19:21:17 < Mangy_Dog> being in the eu didnt bankrupt them
2020-06-17T19:22:03 < PaulFertser> Postponing the inevitable is not a good thing, and being in the EU might have postponed it.
2020-06-17T19:23:10 < Mangy_Dog> heres the other thing... the idea the uk can stay strong outside the eu is insanity... we have no bragging rights. we dont export we have a very internal ecomony, the onyl thing we export now is IP... the EU didnt do that... sucsessive tory governments did that by privatising everything and selling it off various enterties around the world... and slowly all those exports shut down one by one...
2020-06-17T19:23:31 < Mangy_Dog> our stronge point was we were a hub to the Eu
2020-06-17T19:23:35 < Mangy_Dog> mostly in banking
2020-06-17T19:23:45 < PaulFertser> This discussion seems to boil down to the old "freedom is slavery" idea. The problem is that it's not outright absurd, largely depending on how you define the words.
2020-06-17T19:23:50 < Mangy_Dog> now with brexit the majority of banks are moving there head offices away to places like the netherlands
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2020-06-17T19:24:21 < Mangy_Dog> the uk can no longer function as the hub it was
2020-06-17T19:24:43 < Mangy_Dog> maybe it would recover and become stronger in other areas... but for now its going to hurt... and hurt bad
2020-06-17T19:25:28 < PaulFertser> Just as planned. And it's not necessarily a bad thing.
2020-06-17T19:28:42 < PaulFertser> The question is whether smart people in your country are going to try to make it happen instead of continuing the battle they've already lost.
2020-06-17T19:29:21 < Mangy_Dog> who knows
2020-06-17T19:31:11 < PaulFertser> I think that's part of what Cracki has in mind. Yes, you lost it in this specific case. But if you're continuing to blame "them" you're not moving forward anyhow, and just missing on the new opportunities. 
2020-06-17T19:31:57 < Mangy_Dog> thats just it right now.... there arent any oppotunities in this situations... esp while its still up in the air on whats actually going to happen
2020-06-17T19:31:59 < Mangy_Dog> and when
2020-06-17T19:32:20 < Cracki> an abusive girlfriend/boyfriend would make it hurt for you to leave.
2020-06-17T19:32:23 < Cracki> food for thought
2020-06-17T19:32:50 < Mangy_Dog> i dont think the eu are just making things hurt for the sake of hurting
2020-06-17T19:33:14 < Mangy_Dog> im talking about the actual hit to uk importing and goods
2020-06-17T19:33:36 < Mangy_Dog> we import a whole heck of a lot more from the eu than we export
2020-06-17T19:33:47 < Mangy_Dog> we depend on a huge amount of food and veg from the eu
2020-06-17T19:34:10 < Mangy_Dog> the tarrifs that are going to be applied to those goods are going to hurt us, the general public... A LOT
2020-06-17T19:34:14 < Mangy_Dog> prices are going to shoot up
2020-06-17T19:34:19 < Mangy_Dog> thats not the EU doing
2020-06-17T19:34:21 < Mangy_Dog> thats the Uk doing
2020-06-17T19:34:25 < Mangy_Dog> its customs and excise
2020-06-17T19:35:23 < PaulFertser> I've watched some of house of commons hearings. It looked like a bad standup show rather than a sane discussion. No wonder your anti-brexit politicians weren't able to convince anybody who weren't already supporting them...
2020-06-17T19:35:25 < englishman> the price of fruit has doubled here because there are no Guatemalans to pick them and no white people want to do that shit
2020-06-17T19:36:25 < englishman> local fruit anyway
2020-06-17T19:36:35 < englishman> imported fruit is still cheaper but tastes like cardboard
2020-06-17T19:37:16 < Mangy_Dog> well the simple truth is that nearly all out tomatoes are imported from spain
2020-06-17T19:37:27 < Mangy_Dog> the majority of med veg.... is from spain as well
2020-06-17T19:37:45 < Mangy_Dog> we import cabages too but we also supply ourselves
2020-06-17T19:37:50 < Mangy_Dog> onions are imported
2020-06-17T19:37:57 < Mangy_Dog> but we do have a small internal supply as well
2020-06-17T19:38:30 < Mangy_Dog> i think most people would be shocked at how little would be in the shelves if you took away what was actually produced int he uk
2020-06-17T19:39:14 < Mangy_Dog> heck even 50% of our pork is dainish
2020-06-17T19:39:16 < Mangy_Dog> :p
2020-06-17T19:39:46 < PaulFertser> Mangy_Dog: you know what would be cool? If one of your universities released a game with an accurate enough economics model so that all people who are trying to reason about things like taxes, import/export balance, GDP etc could experiment with the parameters themselves. That would do so much more for a fruitful (pun intended) discussion than your Corbin's rhetorics.
2020-06-17T19:42:35 < Cracki> so your gripes are that _now_ the politicians have to hammer out trade agreements that previously came "free" with being "in" the eu
2020-06-17T19:44:01 < Cracki> "in the EU" meant more than trade agreements. the "more" is what the brexiteers have an issue with. they overwhelmingly want the trade, same as you.
2020-06-17T19:44:48 < qyx> englishman: how much are eg. tomatoes in .ca?
2020-06-17T19:45:23 < qyx> here, the imported ones are about 1-2e/kg, local tomatoes are usually 3e/kg and more
2020-06-17T19:46:27 < englishman> $6.6/kg for normal greenhouse red tomatoes non-organic
2020-06-17T19:47:10 < englishman> up to like $23/kg for cherry tomatoes
2020-06-17T19:49:08 < Mangy_Dog> though in cali you got hte climate for it
2020-06-17T19:49:10 < Mangy_Dog> the uk doesnt
2020-06-17T19:49:40 < englishman> Cali is fucking retarded tho
2020-06-17T19:49:40 < Mangy_Dog> and id imagen such a game would be way over the heads of a lot of brexiteers
2020-06-17T19:49:47 < qyx> .ca is canada
2020-06-17T19:49:49 < englishman> they grow almonds in the desert for export
2020-06-17T19:50:06 < Mangy_Dog> oh canada
2020-06-17T19:50:07 < Mangy_Dog> sorry
2020-06-17T19:50:07 < englishman> sucking every drop of water out of the earth
2020-06-17T19:50:31 < qyx> englishman: not much different, 3e vs 4e
2020-06-17T19:51:18 < englishman> yeah it's not too bad price and the quality is excellent
2020-06-17T19:52:12 < PaulFertser> Mangy_Dog: it wouldn't require that many people to shift the public opinion. If they can play "The Plague" or Civilization or whatever the modern SimCity incarnation is, they can play an economics game too.
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2020-06-17T19:56:25 < PaulFertser> Mangy_Dog: also, afaict many people prefer to think they understand something about economy (and soccer training). So it'd be possible to challenge some of the brexiters to win that game and it would make at least some of them think.
2020-06-17T19:58:21 < jadew> what's the topic? brexit?
2020-06-17T19:58:59 < PaulFertser> Yes
2020-06-17T19:59:43 < jadew> I'm gonna be sad when they finally go
2020-06-17T19:59:52 < jadew> I'll have to pay taxes for shit I buy from the UK
2020-06-17T20:00:02 < jadew> hopefully everyone will move to the EU
2020-06-17T20:02:36 < Steffanx> poor jadew
2020-06-17T20:03:54 < PaulFertser> Mangy_Dog: Adam Smith was British, Keynes was British, Turing was British. Surely your economists should have been able to do something more than handwaving when advocating against brexit?
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2020-06-17T20:08:59 < Cracki> depopulate the island, make the dutch annex it
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2020-06-17T20:16:07 < Cracki> "way over the heads of a lot of brexiteers"
2020-06-17T20:16:28 < Cracki> let's talk about IQ. half the population has a double digit IQ. let's assume brexiteers are as smart as remoaners.
2020-06-17T20:16:44 < Cracki> so yes, an economics game can be too much for half the population
2020-06-17T20:17:32 < Cracki> yet that statement's sole purpose is to signal that you think you're smarter than your enemy
2020-06-17T20:18:09 < PaulFertser> But given the opinions were divided almost equally it didn't really take much to change the end result.
2020-06-17T20:18:43 < Cracki> that just makes the losers sore losers because "so close"
2020-06-17T20:19:14 < Cracki> the distribution of votes says nothing about the value of each proposition or the value of the people voting for it
2020-06-17T20:20:13 < Cracki> I too am in favor of educating voters. a game would do that very well.
2020-06-17T20:20:42 < Cracki> if it's made honestly and gives you options the "enemy" doesn't want you to have.
2020-06-17T20:21:10 < PaulFertser> I mean even if just 10 % of all the voters would play the game and change their opinion (or the opinions of people they would be discussing it with), it would be enough to change the outcome.
2020-06-17T20:21:33 < Cracki> it's too easy to make a game that is moralizing, makes you choose between "shooting the dog or shooting yourself", ...
2020-06-17T20:23:05 < Cracki> such a game isn't supposed to tell you what to think, it's supposed to give you something that is as close to reality as feasible, so you can come to your own conclusions or understand someone else's solution
2020-06-17T20:23:28 < PaulFertser> Indeed, but I'm not sure it's easy to make it that (wrong) way with a game that would use proper economics models where you can tweak all the parameters and the equations too.
2020-06-17T20:23:58 < Cracki> yeah that would be a good and honest game indeed
2020-06-17T20:24:36 < Cracki> kinda like minecraft, kerbal space program, ... vs "walking simulators"
2020-06-17T20:24:58 < Cracki> bridge builder is a fun game too
2020-06-17T20:26:47 < Cracki> politics should be reserved for people who like to build rather than "play" with. we don't need maniacs moving chess pieces, we need craftsmen building chess pieces
2020-06-17T20:30:45 < dima> I don't think it's possible to build an economic model without involving politics. 
2020-06-17T20:30:57 < qyx> offtopic, which method do you recommend for long-term precise temperature sensing? (after calibration)
2020-06-17T20:31:15 < dima> whatever assumptions you build into your model, would reflect your political views
2020-06-17T20:31:26 < qyx> should I go with PCB-mounted PT100 + RTD to digital converter?
2020-06-17T20:32:10 < PaulFertser> dima: make it free software, let both parties make and advertise their forks.
2020-06-17T20:32:49 < dima> PaulFertser: yeah, that would be fun to watch
2020-06-17T20:38:06 < Cracki> long term stable temperature measurement eh? https://www.eevblog.com/forum/metrology/long-term-stability-of-temperature-sensors/
2020-06-17T20:40:46 < Cracki> graphic may help splitting hairs https://blog.wika.com/knowhow/long-term-stability-vs-long-term-drift/
2020-06-17T20:47:03 < jpa-> qyx: how precise?
2020-06-17T20:48:41 < jpa-> SHT35 from Cracki's link is not bad, and difficult to screw up
2020-06-17T20:49:04 < qyx> jpa-: I'll see what the customer expects, let's say 0.1°C in -15 to +40 range
2020-06-17T20:50:05 < qyx> Cracki: as in, I'll bring ~50 boxes to calibrate them and then they will be mounted for the next .. uhm, 5 years
2020-06-17T20:50:08 < PaulFertser> Cracki: I like that level of "autism". Looks like someone need to "run in" their temperature sensors.
2020-06-17T20:50:41 < Cracki> audiophiles snicker
2020-06-17T20:51:00 < jpa-> SI7051 costs 1.80 EUR and has +-0.1°C initial and 0.01°C/year drift
2020-06-17T20:51:02 < PaulFertser> But in this case deviation does go lower with time.
2020-06-17T20:51:19 < PaulFertser> deviation'
2020-06-17T20:52:02 < qyx> jpa-: oh, I'll check
2020-06-17T20:53:54 < PaulFertser> Dumb medical thermometer should be pretty stable over the years.
2020-06-17T20:59:55 < jpa-> medical thermometers need accuracy over very narrow range only, though
2020-06-17T21:00:57 < jpa-> looks like SI7051 also has the +-0.1°C only between 35.8°C and 41°C, and goes to +-0.25°C over the -40 to +125 range
2020-06-17T21:01:43 < PaulFertser> Indeed, but if you make them longer I'd expect the same long term stability. And, BTW, we should learn from the heroes that were before us https://www.ibm.com/blogs/industries/little-known-story-first-iot-device/ , optical sensing is not something to be ashamed of.
2020-06-17T21:02:10 < jpa-> longer?
2020-06-17T21:02:54 < PaulFertser> Medical thermometer is quite short. I guess you can make a bigger device for a greater range.
2020-06-17T21:04:02 < jpa-> ah you mean the liquid-filled type and not digital :)
2020-06-17T21:06:54 < PaulFertser> And mine just showed 36.6, nice.
2020-06-17T21:14:33 < Cracki> >Eventually, Garrod said, graduate students decided operating a soda machine on their own “wasn’t worth the time or effort.”
2020-06-17T21:14:48 < Cracki> very disappointed
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2020-06-17T21:42:02 < Steffanx> lol 1 week after i decided to throw away some box with old cables i need one of those old cables -_-
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2020-06-17T21:42:38 < Steffanx> Hi tcth bye tcth
2020-06-17T21:50:12 < qyx> This pad is connected to GND internally. This pad is the main thermal input to the on-
2020-06-17T21:50:15 < qyx> chip temperature sensor. The paddle should be soldered to a floating pad.
2020-06-17T21:50:48 < qyx> why..
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2020-06-17T23:02:06 < Cracki> paddle
2020-06-17T23:02:54 < Cracki> I guess you can ground the "paddle" too but it's superfluous?
2020-06-17T23:03:11 < qyx> it is mainly a thermal pad
2020-06-17T23:03:17 < qyx> the case is at GND potential
2020-06-17T23:03:22 < qyx> and I want to measure its temperature
2020-06-17T23:03:50 < qyx> so it is better to place the IC near the mounting holes and attach its pad to the ground plane(s)
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2020-06-17T23:40:41 < karlp> heh, czech post finally replied
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2020-06-17T23:42:28 < kakimir> pump time
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2020-06-17T23:50:51 < strata> kakipump
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2020-06-17T23:58:12 < Steffanx> Special music for kakimir https://youtu.be/0HtyF0jux2Q
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--- Day changed Thu Jun 18 2020
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2020-06-18T00:08:20 < kakimir> we should draw a venn diagram
2020-06-18T00:08:27 < kakimir> steffs musics
2020-06-18T00:08:30 < kakimir> kakis musics
2020-06-18T00:09:03 < kakimir> those circles overlap at "Danzel - Pump it up"
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2020-06-18T00:19:24 < englishm1> it has been over 2 years since he quit irc Steffanx 
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2020-06-18T00:22:53 < Steffanx> I know, but his client does join and rename, do im still hopeful emeb :P
2020-06-18T00:23:00 < Steffanx> So*
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2020-06-18T00:38:01 < kakimir> Steffanx: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oAlRtCyr0sQ
2020-06-18T00:54:20 < qyx> huh browsing device section on ttn
2020-06-18T00:54:35 < qyx> there is almost everything
2020-06-18T00:54:53 < qyx> but NO LINKS to actual shops
2020-06-18T00:57:55 < Cracki> whois says irccloud.com web gateway. I doubt that's a "client" doing things "automatically"
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2020-06-18T02:03:00 < Cracki> unicode test: 𓂸𓂹𓂺
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2020-06-18T02:32:20 < Steffanx> Ty Cracki  :P
2020-06-18T02:32:45 < Cracki> there are tits and vulva too but I don't care about those
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2020-06-18T11:02:13 < jadew> thingiverse website still broken
2020-06-18T11:02:16 < jadew> now you can't login
2020-06-18T11:02:59 < jadew> I guess business isn't going great for makerbot, otherwise they wouldn't hire retards
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2020-06-18T11:31:56 < jly> THE SHEKEL PIPE IS EMPTY SIR
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2020-06-18T11:33:27 < rapha> hi
2020-06-18T11:33:33 < jly> HI THERE MATE
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2020-06-18T11:33:58 < rapha> is there a way that the STLink can be used for serial comms, too? (in addition to programming)
2020-06-18T11:36:19 < jpa-> rapha: stlinkv2.1 and newer include a usb-serial adapter on the same device
2020-06-18T11:36:48 < jpa-> it's also possible to use SWO pin for debug prints from the microcontroller, but not for input to microcontroller
2020-06-18T11:37:15 < rapha> ah, okay, so i'll have to find a usbttl somewhere in a box
2020-06-18T11:37:17 < rapha> thanks jpa- 
2020-06-18T11:37:50 < srk> rapha: STLink on disco boards can be flashed with BMP and some of them even bridge uarts to it, some need wires
2020-06-18T11:38:14 < srk> common on recent boards, needs hacking for old ones like f4 disco
2020-06-18T11:38:50 < srk> not sure about dongles
2020-06-18T11:39:35 < rapha> srk: only a bluepill here
2020-06-18T11:39:53 < srk> yeah, you can use that easily for both
2020-06-18T11:40:02 < srk> I think..
2020-06-18T11:40:27 < srk> dongles I mean standalone stlinks or china clones with the 10pin debug connector
2020-06-18T11:40:45 < rapha> srk: wait, do i understand correctly that you suggest to flash something else _onto_ the 10-bin-china-clone?
2020-06-18T11:40:51 < srk> yes
2020-06-18T11:40:56 < srk> it's the first thing I do to em
2020-06-18T11:41:40 < srk> flashed like 10 or so of them in a row recently
2020-06-18T11:42:14 < rapha> interesting
2020-06-18T11:42:15 < srk> ideally support BMP devs and buy original BMP as well https://1bitsquared.de/products/black-magic-probe
2020-06-18T11:43:00 < rapha> WOAH
2020-06-18T11:43:02 < rapha> 60 euros!
2020-06-18T11:43:10 < rapha> that's my budget for this whole project...
2020-06-18T11:43:16 < srk> well, embedded dev is not cheap ;)
2020-06-18T11:43:17 < rapha> (sorry, poor student here)
2020-06-18T11:43:35 < srk> sure, understandable, you won't be forever and you're gonna love BMP :)
2020-06-18T11:44:03 < rapha> i'll buy that shit once i have a real job
2020-06-18T11:44:08 < PaulFertser> For poor student I'd recommend jlink clones. Looks like the cheapest way to get both SWD and JTAG.
2020-06-18T11:44:34 < PaulFertser> stlinks are high-level adapters so can't anything outside of cortex-m land.
2020-06-18T11:44:40 < srk> PaulFertser: like BMP is able to jtag too, not sure with stlink clones but with bluepill it should
2020-06-18T11:44:47 < rapha> for now i think i'll give srk's suggestion a try
2020-06-18T11:45:10 < PaulFertser> srk: BMP is a high-level adapter too. You can't connect it to MIPS or Cortex-A or to configure an FPGA can you?
2020-06-18T11:45:39 < srk> PaulFertser: probably not, was using jlink for that before until it died :(
2020-06-18T11:46:21 < zyp> PaulFertser, it's a selfcontained full gdbserver
2020-06-18T11:46:32 < srk> this
2020-06-18T11:46:41 < zyp> probably not too hard to add e.g. a SVF player to it
2020-06-18T11:47:07 < PaulFertser> It looks like CMSIS-DAP/DAPLink has JTAG pass-through mode.
2020-06-18T11:47:34 < PaulFertser> zyp: I know. But it's niche. A dumb JTAG adapter is applicable to more usecases.
2020-06-18T11:47:48 < rapha> srk: is what you do basically https://github.com/blacksphere/blackmagic/wiki/Upgrading-Firmware ?
2020-06-18T11:48:48 < srk> pretty much, first flash bootloader via SWD, than bmp itself over dfu
2020-06-18T11:48:51 < srk> *then
2020-06-18T11:48:58 < PaulFertser> daplink looks like capable of being used with OpenOCD for arbitrary purposes.
2020-06-18T11:49:16 < zyp> srk, or just load both images over swd once you're at it
2020-06-18T11:49:17 < srk> what's (or where is) daplink?
2020-06-18T11:49:24 < rapha> srk: wait, that sounds like you're flashing something onto a bluepill, not onto an stlink adapter.
2020-06-18T11:49:52 < PaulFertser> srk: it's arm standard for debug adapter protocol, used to be called CMSIS-DAP. There exist few implementations/forks.
2020-06-18T11:49:57 < srk> rapha: no difference, you can open the stlink dongle and SWD pins are marked
2020-06-18T11:50:06 < srk> rapha: pads.. needs soldering
2020-06-18T11:50:09 < zyp> rapha, you can do that too, it's all stm32 based
2020-06-18T11:50:22 < rapha> oh
2020-06-18T11:50:33 < zyp> I flashed BMP onto the onboard stlink of stm32g071-disco the other day
2020-06-18T11:50:34 < srk> zyp: yup, had some issues with bootloader and flash sizes before so I better test that
2020-06-18T11:50:47 < rapha> okay, in that case i'd rather leave my stlink untouched and use one of the other bluepills as a diy-bmp.
2020-06-18T11:50:48 < srk> I don't have a disco with stock stlink.. :D
2020-06-18T11:51:01 < srk> only g474 nucleo 
2020-06-18T11:51:29 < zyp> I've got a ton of disco boards, some I haven't even used
2020-06-18T11:51:47 < zyp> but I tend to put BMP onto the ones I do use
2020-06-18T11:52:14 < srk> PaulFertser: I see, ty
2020-06-18T11:52:41 < PaulFertser> I have BMP on my very first stm32 board, the f100 "value disco" one.
2020-06-18T11:53:03 < PaulFertser> And I contributed arm semi-hosting support to it.
2020-06-18T11:53:33 < srk> nice!
2020-06-18T11:54:03 < srk> still a bit of too much black magic to me these debuggers .. :D
2020-06-18T11:54:33 < PaulFertser> I prefer OpenOCD on host though. It's easier to fix flash memory drivers or whatever this way.
2020-06-18T11:55:00 < PaulFertser> Also, rtos awareness support is handy at times.
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2020-06-18T12:43:41 < jpa-> did you know that windows 10 comes with tar.exe that creates zips?
2020-06-18T12:45:08 < PaulFertser> for real?
2020-06-18T12:46:23 < PaulFertser> That sounds even weirder than syswow64 storing 32-bit libraries
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2020-06-18T12:54:33 < jpa-> to be honest it does create .tar.gz's also, but apparently it decides file type automatically based on extension
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2020-06-18T12:55:07 < hste1cl> hi all. Is it possible switch off the LEDs of an RJ45 programatically?
2020-06-18T12:55:28 < catphish> yes
2020-06-18T12:55:46 < catphish> hste1cl: for starters, it totally depends what they're connected to
2020-06-18T12:56:12 < catphish> but assuming they're connected to the PHY, there should be something in the PHY's API to control them
2020-06-18T12:58:16 < hste1cl> yes I've been looking into the reference manual but can't find anything. I'm using an stm32f417 with a LAN8742A transceiver
2020-06-18T12:58:43 < hste1cl> I was under the assumption that this was implemented on the stm side, but perhaps it's on the transceiver side
2020-06-18T13:02:19 < PaulFertser> hste1cl: the datasheet says you can change WUCSR register to control the led pin functions.
2020-06-18T13:03:18 < hste1cl> I found it as well now. I was focused on the stm side that I forgot to check the transceiver manual. Thanks guys and sorry
2020-06-18T13:24:08 < srk> PaulFertser: what do you mean by fixing flash memory drivers? 
2020-06-18T13:25:19 < PaulFertser> srk: when support for the target chip flashing is buggy
2020-06-18T13:25:33 < srk> I see
2020-06-18T13:27:24 < srk> I wasn't able to debug a problem using split ram feature recently, when it only worked with debugger attached but not with cold boot
2020-06-18T13:27:43 < srk> gonna try openOCDing about it a bit and holding it in reset or something
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2020-06-18T14:20:45 < rapha> trying to debug this with the PlatformIO built-in in-system debugger (which is a new thing to me; see comment in lines 12 and 47). builtinToggle() never gets called in line 80. what am I doing wrong?
2020-06-18T14:23:12 < zyp> this what?
2020-06-18T14:23:53 < rapha> my first attempt at programming an stm32, zyp 
2020-06-18T14:24:01 < Thorn> rapha not posting your code to a pastebin
2020-06-18T14:24:03 < rapha> platformio with the default arduino core
2020-06-18T14:24:06 < rapha> oh
2020-06-18T14:24:08 < rapha> lol
2020-06-18T14:24:10 < rapha> https://gist.github.com/sixtyfive/4c20a8dab72990e545405977688bbdc4
2020-06-18T14:24:22 < rapha> sorry, wrote the question, forgot the ctrl-shift-v
2020-06-18T14:26:46 < Thorn> rapha do you expect that function to be called while the cpu is stopped by the debugger or what
2020-06-18T14:28:15 < rapha> Thorn: interestingly, yes, with the breakpoints disabled, when i press F5 and then touch that button, the debugger then puts me into updateIntentBM and btn_last_act = ACT_HELD
2020-06-18T14:29:39 < rapha> perhaps i should try to get that hackintosh BMP working, first, and then debug this with Serial.println, instead of playing around with that fancy hipstershit in-system debugger
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2020-06-18T14:35:04 < rapha> argl okay nm i'm too overwhelmed with all this new stuff and there's multiple logic errors in there
2020-06-18T14:35:05 < rapha> grah
2020-06-18T14:36:04 < Thorn> >with the breakpoints disabled and >the debugger then puts me into doesn't add up
2020-06-18T14:36:16 < Thorn> also my mp1 board is finally here
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2020-06-18T14:50:48 < Thorn> I've got a shell
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2020-06-18T15:02:22 < Thorn> why is it so hot, do I need a heatsink
2020-06-18T15:05:29 < englishm1> how hot
2020-06-18T15:05:38 -!- englishm1 is now known as englishman
2020-06-18T15:05:54 < strata> hot wyte. so hot your brain about to fry
2020-06-18T15:08:42 < Cracki> cortex a
2020-06-18T15:08:50 < Cracki> I'd expect it to be warm
2020-06-18T15:09:00 < Cracki> send to sleep?
2020-06-18T15:09:53 < Thorn> no idea, no sensors command. but very hot to the touch, probably at least 50°C
2020-06-18T15:10:32 < Cracki> dual a7 650 mhz...
2020-06-18T15:10:52 < Cracki> 800 even
2020-06-18T15:11:34 < Cracki> https://www.st.com/resource/en/application_note/dm00595472-stm32mp1-series-system-power-consumption-stmicroelectronics.pdf
2020-06-18T15:12:42 < Thorn> load average is 0.00, isn't it supposed to be in sleep all the time
2020-06-18T15:13:06 < Thorn> lunix should take care of it I hope
2020-06-18T15:13:09 < Cracki> heh
2020-06-18T15:14:20 < Cracki> this says 1-2 watts. that should make it warm. https://www.st.com/resource/en/application_note/dm00395696-thermal-management-guidelines-for-stm32-applications-stmicroelectronics.pdf
2020-06-18T15:14:46 < Cracki> they measure 50C too
2020-06-18T15:27:18 < Thorn> cat /sys/class/hwmon/hwmon0/temp1_input says 59000
2020-06-18T15:30:00 < Cracki> how high would it go with a simple python -c "while True: pass"
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2020-06-18T15:57:55 < qyx> wait what
2020-06-18T15:58:09 < qyx> mp1 draws 1-2W?
2020-06-18T15:58:30 < PaulFertser> while true; do true; done &
2020-06-18T15:58:34 < PaulFertser> twice to load both cores
2020-06-18T15:59:34 < qyx> :(){ :|:& };: no good?
2020-06-18T15:59:43 < qyx> once to load all cores
2020-06-18T16:00:09 < englishman> >lunix power management
2020-06-18T16:01:44 < PaulFertser> Haha qyx , but how to kill when you're done?
2020-06-18T16:03:31 < dongs> haha lunix power management nice joke
2020-06-18T16:03:38 < qyx> I hope it has a reset button
2020-06-18T16:04:06 < dongs> < rapha> perhaps i should try to get that hackintosh BMP working, first, and then debug this with Serial.println, instead of
2020-06-18T16:04:09 < dongs>                playing around with that fancy hipstershit in-system debugger
2020-06-18T16:04:12 < dongs> wat
2020-06-18T16:04:17 < dongs> system.println is the hipstershit
2020-06-18T16:04:20 < dongs> youre confusing things
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2020-06-18T16:41:01 < Thorn> lol Roskomnadzor just officially unblocked Telegram
2020-06-18T16:42:49 < jadew> ok... covid is taking hold in here too
2020-06-18T16:43:03 < jadew> my city's hospitals are officially full
2020-06-18T16:44:03 < effractur> and here ==?
2020-06-18T16:44:04 < Steffanx> Were already far over our (first) peak. Its actually going quite well
2020-06-18T16:44:11 < jadew> effractur, Romania
2020-06-18T16:44:11 < Steffanx> effractur knows
2020-06-18T16:44:14 < jadew> my city is Bucharest
2020-06-18T16:44:34 < Steffanx> Mr lurker effractur  :P
2020-06-18T16:44:48 < jadew> Steffanx, we were under quarantine since the very beginning and have been out of it for a little over a month
2020-06-18T16:45:11 < jadew> it's getting scary again
2020-06-18T16:45:38 < Steffanx> I wouldnt be surprised if shits hits the fan again here too
2020-06-18T16:45:50 < Steffanx> All we can do better now is.. the amounts of tests
2020-06-18T16:45:57 < jadew> yeah, same here
2020-06-18T16:46:40 < jadew> people weren't taking it seriously, because nothing really happened here (because of the timely measures)
2020-06-18T16:46:51 < Thorn> new research says only a few people gain long term immunity to covid (a few % at best)
2020-06-18T16:47:06 < jadew> Thorn, that's disappointing 
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2020-06-18T17:47:01 < Cracki> wat research
2020-06-18T17:48:05 < Cracki> I'd question that assertion because it sounds deceptive
2020-06-18T17:49:04 < Cracki> immune systems _always_ have to deal with new strains anew. that's not specific to this virus.
2020-06-18T17:49:23 < Cracki> and I doubt they're actually claiming that people can get sick from the same strain multiple times
2020-06-18T17:49:42 < Cracki> if they do, I wanna see the facts and I wanna see someone replicate that
2020-06-18T17:51:02 < Cracki> obviously https://www.sciencemag.org/news/2020/05/t-cells-found-covid-19-patients-bode-well-long-term-immunity
2020-06-18T17:53:09 < Cracki> We really don’t understand whether it is a change in the virus over time or antibodies that don’t protect from infection,” he says. https://www.technologyreview.com/2020/04/27/1000569/how-long-are-people-immune-to-covid-19/
2020-06-18T17:53:13 < Cracki> so they don't have shit
2020-06-18T17:53:20 < Cracki> it's all lies
2020-06-18T17:57:26 < strata> you think maybe it's because an entire generation of smartphone and social media addicts were only getting by on the clout their boomer parents who are now dying off... and then we start facing real adversity and can't handle it because all of the "scientists" were just faking it for a paycheck. and instead of admitting it and saying "hey, we need meritocracy back so we can survive as a species."
2020-06-18T17:57:27 < strata> they would rather let the entire planet starve and die of disease.
2020-06-18T17:58:06 < Cracki> and there needs to be distinction between infection and actual illness. the body fighting an infection successfully still means you're infected.
2020-06-18T18:00:43 < Cracki> journos are midwits with the attention span of a brick. they can't grasp what a scientist tells them. so even if they weren't actively trying to lie, they're unfit to be a medium for science.
2020-06-18T18:02:56 < Cracki> "midwit" may be too flattering because it seems to be defined as iq 105-120. I'd guess them in the 90-110 range, *mid*wits.
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2020-06-18T18:08:55 < jadew> isn't 120 like the average joe you meet in school?
2020-06-18T18:09:15 < jadew> school as in college
2020-06-18T18:10:22 < Thorn> $ ls /boot/dtbs/4.19.9-stm32-r1/
2020-06-18T18:10:42 < Thorn> stm32429i-eval.dtb stm32746g-eval.dtb stm32f429-disco.dtb stm32f469-disco.dtb stm32f746-disco.dtb stm32f769-disco.dtb etc.
2020-06-18T18:11:07 < Thorn> stlunix supports stm32f/h?
2020-06-18T18:14:08 < Cracki> 100 is the median
2020-06-18T18:14:26 < Cracki> mean even
2020-06-18T18:14:47 < Cracki> mean, yes. don't know about median, but since it's a gaussian/nomal distribution those should coincide anyway
2020-06-18T18:15:49 < Cracki> if you go to a better school, average IQ should be higher, but IQ doesn't determine everything, the lack of it only limits you. high iq personalities can still fail for lots of reasons, and less gifted ones can excel through work ethic
2020-06-18T18:16:40 < Cracki> random statistics I've found claim that the average at a university depends on the major, and is still only around 110-120, so one standard deviation up from general population
2020-06-18T18:17:34 < specing> I'd be interested in seeing those stats, Cracki 
2020-06-18T18:17:36 < Cracki> the more vocational and soft it is, the closer to norm. the more mathy and hard it is, the higher it goes.
2020-06-18T18:18:19 < Cracki> how's this https://thetab.com/us/2017/04/10/which-major-has-highest-iq-64811
2020-06-18T18:18:33 < Cracki> I'm looking for something more ivory tower
2020-06-18T18:20:02 < Cracki> if you don't like my characterization of 110-120, their table is padding it by 10 points for 100-130 range
2020-06-18T18:21:28 < Cracki> yes, (parts of) the SAT are a good proxy for IQ https://www.psychologytoday.com/files/attachments/56143/1339-us-colleges-ranked-average-student-brainpower.pdf
2020-06-18T18:23:13 < Cracki> are you asking because you think IQ predicts nothing, hence you'd see as many 85 IQ people as 115 IQ, at a university?
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2020-06-18T18:24:37 < Cracki> those graphs are funny http://www.randalolson.com/2014/06/25/average-iq-of-students-by-college-major-and-gender-ratio/
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2020-06-18T18:27:09 < jadew> religion is up there with CS
2020-06-18T18:27:15 < Cracki> uhhh
2020-06-18T18:27:29 < Cracki> I don't see religion in that first plot
2020-06-18T18:27:38 < jadew> I'm looking at that tablet
2020-06-18T18:27:40 < jadew> *table
2020-06-18T18:27:44 < Cracki> ah
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2020-06-18T18:28:26 < Cracki> they lump computer science and IT/javaschool together
2020-06-18T18:28:29 < jadew> hah, the graph is basically IQ vs Females
2020-06-18T18:28:54 < Cracki> careful tho, the graph doesn't say females are smoothbrains. it says brainy subjects don't attract females.
2020-06-18T18:29:19 < Cracki> the logical conclusion is to shove women into STEM at gunpoint, and chop the wieners off the dudes
2020-06-18T18:29:46 < Cracki> I hope that isn't perceived as sarcasm >_>
2020-06-18T18:33:12 < Cracki> even a politically correct brainwashed german has to admit that IQ is 50-70% genetically determined https://www.en.uni-muenchen.de/news/newsarchiv/2019/buehner_iq.html
2020-06-18T18:36:23 < Cracki> the "yardstick" answer forgets to mention the important bit. IQ tests are supposed to measure cognitive capability, basically pattern matching and synthesis, and the "score" is mean 100 stddev 15 versus (a representative sample of) an adult population (country, continent, world)
2020-06-18T18:38:09 < Cracki> "all nerds" is also a lie. yes, 1-4 standard deviations don't kill you, but more makes you so different that you have no peers, which is bad for development
2020-06-18T18:38:19 < Cracki> *1-3
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2020-06-18T18:51:27 < basdb> well as long as you don't call your main branch 'master' everything is good
2020-06-18T18:54:09 < basdb> at the end of the day pathing and interest can really be developed in early childhood, right? legos would be great if they weren't so damn expensive now
2020-06-18T18:54:53 < Cracki> the massa branch
2020-06-18T18:55:05 < Cracki> you can buy "just like lego" on aliex
2020-06-18T18:55:27 < Cracki> the chinese are decent at precise injection molding
2020-06-18T18:55:35 < basdb> tbf i really don't know where the master/slave terminology in tech originated, but im doubtful it's directly attributed to human slavery
2020-06-18T18:56:03 < basdb> Cracki: does it come with that wonderful chinese off-gassing smell of any and all plastics/rubber that originated from there?
2020-06-18T18:56:10 < Cracki> there was a time when whitey didn't have knee jerk reactions to facts of life
2020-06-18T18:56:32 < Cracki> master/slave precisely describes the relationship between components, where one gives the commands and the other obeys them
2020-06-18T18:56:47 < Cracki> *maybe* all those techies were just very kinky and had a secret BDSM dungeon
2020-06-18T18:57:05 < Cracki> probably. I'm not sure how "food safe" chinese plastics are
2020-06-18T18:57:20 < basdb> or more likely indifferent to social norms/stigma (see: touch of the 'tism)
2020-06-18T18:57:44 < Cracki> all the extra soft plastic/bubble wrap they use to wrap aliex shipments to me certainly contain an overdose of plastic softener
2020-06-18T18:57:58 < rapha> dongs: println() for debugging has been working since kernighan and ritchie, how is _that_ the hipstershit?
2020-06-18T18:58:05 < basdb> wash your hands not cause of the rona, but cause the damn smell wont come off
2020-06-18T18:58:26 < Cracki> "wash yo hands" https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ignaz_Semmelweis#Analysis_of_childbed_fever_mortality
2020-06-18T18:58:38 < Cracki> dude was beaten to death because "germs" weren't discovered yet
2020-06-18T18:59:15 < Cracki> med students back then scoffed at being told to wash their filthy paws
2020-06-18T18:59:18 < Cracki> the nerve!
2020-06-18T19:00:31 < Cracki> if you're too smart, it's bad for your health
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2020-06-18T19:01:37 < basdb> wonder what we're laughing at today that'll be adopted later on and seen as savagery in the same way
2020-06-18T19:02:00 < Cracki> they didn't laugh about him, they murdered him
2020-06-18T19:02:06 < basdb> it couldn't possibly be lighting up some sage and burning essential oil candles could it
2020-06-18T19:02:13 < Cracki> and today people get murdered for saying there are two sexes
2020-06-18T19:02:19 < basdb> im sure laughing was involved during the process
2020-06-18T19:02:46 < Cracki> I'm sure they'll laugh about dentistry in the future
2020-06-18T19:02:59 < Cracki> or about single motherhood
2020-06-18T19:03:05 < basdb> dentistry?
2020-06-18T19:03:12 < basdb> brush your teeth, damnit
2020-06-18T19:03:16 < Cracki> or about not shooting teachers for bringing political indoctrination into the class room
2020-06-18T19:04:05 < Cracki> they'll laugh about the ridiculous idea of multiethnic societies. that hasn't worked ever. all the "great" multiethnic societies/empires ended because of it
2020-06-18T19:04:36 < Cracki> people intuitively understand that they need a fence to their neighbors
2020-06-18T19:05:01 < basdb> where are you going with that
2020-06-18T19:05:03 < Cracki> but that's where their lived reality ends and the propaganda starts
2020-06-18T19:05:05 < Cracki> :D
2020-06-18T19:05:08 < basdb> are you an 'auslander raus' kinda guy?
2020-06-18T19:05:29 < Cracki> I wish every people to prosper and to live free of strife
2020-06-18T19:06:02 < basdb> not sure how aunt angie feels about this
2020-06-18T19:06:28 < Cracki> gonna rat me out to the commissars? they'll have me shot at the berlin wall for my wrongthink
2020-06-18T19:06:59 < basdb> the thought polizei will come after you and your stm32 collection
2020-06-18T19:07:48 < basdb> no amount of Lidl or Aldi pfand will get you out of this pickle
2020-06-18T19:07:56 < Cracki> the term "stm32" is probably on a bunch of BLACKLISTS already, same as random hand signs 4chan memed into having any significance at all. totally neurotic.
2020-06-18T19:08:34 < basdb> smoothbrains frighten easily, or think your flashing LED disco board will hack their social security
2020-06-18T19:09:17 < Cracki> remember the kid that smashed an alarm clock, shoved it in a suit case, and brought it to school
2020-06-18T19:09:26 < Cracki> teachers gave him so many headpats
2020-06-18T19:09:42 < Cracki> that's the real racism, low expectations
2020-06-18T19:09:44 < basdb> it was peak trolling that made international news
2020-06-18T19:10:08 < Cracki> it was literally a smashed alarm clock. he did nothing to it except maybe solder a few wires back together
2020-06-18T19:10:29 < Cracki> no circuit design, no mcu programming
2020-06-18T19:11:02 < basdb> probably just wanted attention, to impress people, and he sure got that
2020-06-18T19:11:32 < Cracki> the blacks in america are calling for separation right now. I wish them to get their wish fulfilled. they shouldn't have to live under whitey's boot.
2020-06-18T19:11:49 < basdb> gonna need to pump your brakes on that one
2020-06-18T19:12:13 < Cracki> their complaint is that whitey keeps them down. I want them to have the chance to show their greatness.
2020-06-18T19:12:25 < Mangy_Dog> reflow oven now has a power switch. I managed to find one of these toggles on amazon with prime delivery for 2 quid.... no complaints at all. I thought these switches would go for A LOT more... I had to use a tapered emery bit to make the hole from the old dial larger to fit this switch but in the end got a really nice clean job. and looks perfect
2020-06-18T19:12:25 < Mangy_Dog> https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/538814618106331139/723207695645278258/IMG_20200618_170827.jpg
2020-06-18T19:12:25 < Mangy_Dog> https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/538814618106331139/723207754407215154/IMG_20200618_170833.jpg
2020-06-18T19:12:28 < basdb> inb4 schockley eugenics
2020-06-18T19:12:30 < Cracki> yay oven time
2020-06-18T19:13:23 < basdb> not the first time a german said that ;) ^
2020-06-18T19:13:42 < basdb> remember Cracki, the most powerful N word is Nowledge #staywoke
2020-06-18T19:13:57 < Cracki> btw, lots of elites are eugenicists. look into who's got connections to planned parenthood. bill gates and the rockefellers among them
2020-06-18T19:14:07 < basdb> herewego.jpeg
2020-06-18T19:14:21 < Cracki> bazinga nazigger
2020-06-18T19:15:03 < basdb> or the german: hiergehtslos.yotpeg
2020-06-18T19:15:38 < Cracki> how do you have a comcast IP *and* any clue about german
2020-06-18T19:16:53 < basdb> takes one to know one, mein Kamerad
2020-06-18T19:17:15 < basdb> what are you looking at my IP for, are you trying to hack my runescape account? dont make me report u
2020-06-18T19:17:32 < Steffanx> Even writes Kamerad with a capital k, you must be a german
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2020-06-18T19:18:42 < Cracki> my irc client checks the host name of everyone who says anything. I originally did this to confirm my racism. I'm disappointed to say, it had the opposite effect. the same fraction of indians ask dumb questions as westerners ask dumb questions.
2020-06-18T19:19:23 < basdb> thats fantastic, its like weaponized autism mixed with bias/racism
2020-06-18T19:19:37 < basdb> some might say the perfect blend
2020-06-18T19:19:47 < Cracki> now I mostly use it to stay THE FUCK away from germans because they're all little stasi NPCs
2020-06-18T19:20:14 < basdb> its surpising how few people know of the stasi, brudi
2020-06-18T19:20:17 < Cracki> srsly what yall did to the germans' collective psyche is literal genocide
2020-06-18T19:20:42 < basdb> yeah but we got doner kebab out of it so it's a pretty fair trade
2020-06-18T19:20:53 < Cracki> people can't follow recipes apparently
2020-06-18T19:21:14 < basdb> hallobitteschoen? mit knobi?
2020-06-18T19:21:16 < Cracki> I keep looking for a real greek food place that uses pork for their "kebab"/gyros
2020-06-18T19:21:56 < strata> european schools must be different
2020-06-18T19:22:03 < strata> i don't think IQ has anything to do with schools in the US
2020-06-18T19:22:09 < strata> it's about who your parents are
2020-06-18T19:22:22 < strata> you think zuckerberg has a superior IQ?
2020-06-18T19:22:24 < strata> fuck no
2020-06-18T19:22:30 < zyp> Cracki, as opposed to what? cat?
2020-06-18T19:22:34 < Cracki> I'm glad that germany still has the option to send your kid to a "gymnasium" which is a middle_high school for the smart upper 30%
2020-06-18T19:23:16 < Cracki> zyp, as opposed to chicken. I fucking hate chicken kebab. taste is useless, and it disintegrates before I even come near it with my teeth
2020-06-18T19:23:31 < Cracki> they have beef too but beef all the time is a bit onesided
2020-06-18T19:23:37 < zyp> oh, heh
2020-06-18T19:23:46 < Cracki> I'd like to try lamb. nobody has lamb.
2020-06-18T19:24:11 < basdb> before you know it we'll have Beyond Meat kebabs
2020-06-18T19:24:15 < Cracki> oh also I hate chicken kebab because beef is always the first to be out for the day, so if you want grubs at night, they only have the worthless cheap chicken
2020-06-18T19:24:27 < Cracki> I will not eat sawdust
2020-06-18T19:25:02 < Cracki> if they manage to make actual meat in a beaker, structure and taste and all, we can talk.
2020-06-18T19:25:18 < Cracki> replicator rations > neelix
2020-06-18T19:26:44 < basdb> i cant say that i've ever had a chicken doner kebab in all my time spent in berlin
2020-06-18T19:28:15 < Cracki> berlin... https://imgur.com/gallery/TDdLHIO
2020-06-18T19:28:49 < basdb> that's some good equity
2020-06-18T19:29:01 < zyp> I wonder what my local kebab shop uses
2020-06-18T19:29:19 < zyp> just checked the menu, just says «kebab meat»
2020-06-18T19:29:21 < Cracki> halal slaughtered shoe maybe
2020-06-18T19:29:37 < basdb> just like hot dogs made with real "meat"
2020-06-18T19:29:49 < Cracki> they go hunting for kebabs in the woods. the kebab animal is naturally boneless.
2020-06-18T19:31:34 < Steffanx> Lol just posted and 2 comments already?
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2020-06-18T19:33:34 < Cracki> >tHaT Was 5 1/2 YEARs AgO.
2020-06-18T19:33:45 < Cracki> someone wants to know how much worse it got since the magical year of 2015
2020-06-18T19:38:14 < kakimir> what was then?
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2020-06-18T19:39:11 < Cracki> 2015 was when the big invasion started
2020-06-18T19:46:14 < Cracki> so... how's new hampshire this time of year
2020-06-18T19:46:21 < basdb> aunt angie tore down the walls and let refugees in
2020-06-18T19:46:24 < basdb> hot and humdi, don't dox me bro
2020-06-18T19:46:32 < basdb> humid*
2020-06-18T19:46:52 < Cracki> stand your ground or duty to retreat
2020-06-18T19:47:29 < Cracki> I think one of those little commie rags of magic dirt up there was like "retreat from your own home, there is no castle"
2020-06-18T19:48:20 < Cracki> oh, that's actually castle doctrine and syg
2020-06-18T19:50:30 < Cracki> on the south east end of the state?
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2020-06-18T22:02:30 < englishman> since when is tusb1310a nrnd
2020-06-18T22:02:38 < englishman> doesn't look like ti has a replacement
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2020-06-18T22:07:24 < Steffanx> Google says for years, englishman.
2020-06-18T22:10:13 < englishman> jeez
2020-06-18T22:12:01 < Steffanx> they even confirm there is no alternative https://e2e.ti.com/support/interface/f/138/t/737867
2020-06-18T22:12:14 < Steffanx> *replacement
2020-06-18T22:14:54 < englishman> I'll have to use ft600 at this rate
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2020-06-18T23:08:41 < zyp> englishman, what are you using this with?
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2020-06-18T23:36:33 < mawk> Steffanx: https://twitter.com/Rienschalkwijk/status/1273004858594004994
2020-06-18T23:36:35 < mawk> lol
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2020-06-18T23:57:00 < Steffanx> Lol mawk. She did speak damn fast though
2020-06-18T23:59:15 < mawk> I will take dutch lessons Steffanx 
2020-06-18T23:59:17 < mawk> 8 hours a week
2020-06-18T23:59:20 < mawk> at roc mondriaan
2020-06-18T23:59:32 < mawk> which is a kind of school for refugees apparently
2020-06-18T23:59:40 < mawk> but I'm not a refugee I swear
--- Day changed Fri Jun 19 2020
2020-06-19T00:00:16 < mawk> I don't know why you love mondriaan here
2020-06-19T00:00:19 < mawk> it's not like the only dutch painter
2020-06-19T00:00:39 < Steffanx> Its not the only name we used..
2020-06-19T00:00:57 < mawk> In 1911, Mondrian moved to Paris and changed his name, dropping an 'a' from Mondriaan, to emphasize his departure from the Netherlands, and his integration within the Parisian avant-garde.
2020-06-19T00:00:59 < mawk> see, he hated NL
2020-06-19T00:01:04 < mawk> don't use his name he's a traitor
2020-06-19T00:01:54 < mawk> the dutch wikipedia still writes mondriaan though, lol
2020-06-19T00:01:57 < mawk> they're spiteful
2020-06-19T00:10:55 < mawk> "MUNICIPALITIES WANT MORE 5G CLARITY TO ANSWER CONCERNED RESIDENTS' QUESTIONS" are the dutch stupid as well :( ?
2020-06-19T00:11:46 < zyp> spoiler: there's stupid people everywhere
2020-06-19T00:15:10 < mawk> my world is shattering
2020-06-19T00:21:23 < Cracki> >not a refugee >fleeing war torn paris
2020-06-19T00:25:20 < ds2> what aspect of 5G are they ragging on now?
2020-06-19T00:25:33 < mawk> health effects
2020-06-19T00:25:35 < mawk> most likely
2020-06-19T00:25:42 < Cracki> it rattles your reeth
2020-06-19T00:25:43 < mawk> I hope they never figure out light is in the terahertz
2020-06-19T00:25:44 < Cracki> *teeth
2020-06-19T00:25:45 < ds2> not the asian backdoor one?
2020-06-19T00:26:03 < mawk> no that's what the most intelligent stupid people say against 5G
2020-06-19T00:26:13 < Cracki> tell them it's the "nude scanner" frequency
2020-06-19T00:26:14 < mawk> but the most stupid stupid people talk about quantum radiation blocking chakras
2020-06-19T00:26:18 < mawk> lol
2020-06-19T00:26:23 < Cracki> i.e. they're recording porn of everyone all the time
2020-06-19T00:26:25 < ds2> so just the 60GHz absorption line one? ;)
2020-06-19T00:26:55 < ds2> just sit inside a giant bubble of pure oxygen
2020-06-19T00:26:57 < mawk> can I take the train Steffanx ? without a work reason
2020-06-19T00:27:02 < Cracki> 800 nm is 374 thz so we're still 3-4 orders away from that
2020-06-19T00:27:20 < ds2> nothing intersting absorbs at 800nm :(
2020-06-19T00:28:40 < Cracki> infrared starts at 300 ghz. we're still 1 order away from rays that give you the warmth society can't give you
2020-06-19T00:29:37 < Cracki> "warm hug rays". wouldn't that be some fun BRANDING
2020-06-19T00:30:04 < Cracki> it's like sun but without the cancer
2020-06-19T00:30:28 < Cracki> if only they'd supply the power from a nice nuclear plant...
2020-06-19T00:33:17 < Steffanx> Idk, I believe you can mawk
2020-06-19T00:33:25 < Steffanx> Just use your mask
2020-06-19T00:33:31 < mawk> my chinese mask
2020-06-19T00:33:37 < mawk> which is too small for white faces
2020-06-19T00:33:47 < mawk> and smells like it's smeared in dirt or something
2020-06-19T00:33:49 < mawk> or wors
2020-06-19T00:33:51 < mawk> e
2020-06-19T00:44:09 < englishman> zyp: will have to make this camera soon. not sure how Xilinx are supposed to interface with usb3 in 2020.
2020-06-19T00:44:55 < englishman> buying an IP core and using the onboard periphs seems to make the most sense but the voltage levels aren't right. gotta get in touch with Xilinx.
2020-06-19T00:45:27 < englishman> PYNQ is pretty cool. not sure I will use it tho
2020-06-19T00:46:35 < englishman> being able to swap out fpga configurations (which they call "overlays") is very interesting
2020-06-19T00:46:42 < englishman> in python
2020-06-19T00:47:14 < englishman> so some FPGA guy writes the hard parts then some normal python programmer can do the signal processing on the arm cores
2020-06-19T00:47:35 < englishman> in C modules if necessary
2020-06-19T00:47:36 < qyx> LTE pros, SINR of -4dB is bad, isn't it?
2020-06-19T00:47:56 < Cracki> some IP core listed on xilinx says "Compatible with Xilinx GTX, GTY, GTH serdes. No need for an external PHY chip "
2020-06-19T00:52:34 < Cracki> TUSB1310A: EoL Plan and Alternative parts https://e2e.ti.com/support/interface/f/138/t/737867?jktype=e2e
2020-06-19T00:53:13 < Cracki> looks like they want people to use the full blown usb 3 chips, not simple transceivers
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2020-06-19T01:28:04 < karlp> anyone else getting circuithub.com spam?
2020-06-19T01:28:08 < karlp> or used them?
2020-06-19T01:29:00 < karlp> "instant quote" (must creat account to even start looking at it... no thanks. bye)
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2020-06-19T01:31:14 < karlp> these pseudo targetted spams are weird.
2020-06-19T01:32:29 < mawk> I get targeted spam too
2020-06-19T01:32:39 < mawk> apparently spammers know me a CEO or something
2020-06-19T01:32:51 < mawk> I get a lot of "please authorize this payment for our supplier thanks"
2020-06-19T01:32:57 < mawk> like CEO scam type
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2020-06-19T01:38:06 < karlp> like, today I got some uni student, asking me to fill out a surveyt for some github project.
2020-06-19T01:38:19 < karlp> but I never contributed to that project, as they claim was the basis for being picked
2020-06-19T01:38:53 < karlp> and this circuit hub people are being quite direct and targetted as well.
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2020-06-19T02:35:01 < ds2> thought that stuff would be less of an issue in europe? sounds like someone has been selling and aggregating info
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2020-06-19T03:25:18 < fenugrec> englishman: yo
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2020-06-19T03:54:32 < englishman> fenugrec: sup
2020-06-19T03:54:39 < englishman> you need bail money?
2020-06-19T03:55:06 < fenugrec> yea just 10k
2020-06-19T03:56:16 < fenugrec> thanks for convincing me I needed a sterezoom - just got a used SMZ1, should do the trick for a while
2020-06-19T03:59:07 < englishman> looks pro
2020-06-19T03:59:14 < englishman> working area good enough?
2020-06-19T04:07:07 < fenugrec> should be OK - one QFP64 is about 40% of the diameter, at 7x mag. specs say "30mm field", sounds about right
2020-06-19T04:08:19 < fenugrec> heh, I was close - QFP64 = 11.8mm wide. 40% of 30mm = 12mm
2020-06-19T04:14:09 < englishman> cool
2020-06-19T04:14:10 < englishman> congrats
2020-06-19T04:16:14 < englishman> https://www.cbc.ca/news/politics/contact-tracing-app-1.5617121
2020-06-19T04:16:41 < englishman> this guy just doesnt stop
2020-06-19T04:20:34 < Cracki> president summer camp counselor
2020-06-19T04:24:14 < fenugrec> it has all the ingredients for a happy ending : federal funding, involvment from shopify, apple and google. What could possibly go wrong
2020-06-19T04:26:35 < englishman> Because it's completely anonymous, because it's low maintenance, because it is completely respectful of your privacy, — including no location services or geotagging of any sort —
2020-06-19T04:26:37 < englishman> wut
2020-06-19T04:27:26 < englishman> id like to see the price tag for this come up in the looming election
2020-06-19T04:28:20 < englishman> all shoveled to foreign companies
2020-06-19T04:31:38 < fenugrec> I bet it ties even vs the firearms registry
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2020-06-19T08:41:33 < chipant> is there any routine for relocation of Vector table for Cortex M0 ? 
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2020-06-19T08:50:19 < jpa-> chipant: no; you can make small trampolines though
2020-06-19T08:51:14 < jpa-> and on some devices you can map 0x0000 to SRAM instead
2020-06-19T08:51:31 < chipant> I see 
2020-06-19T08:52:11 < jpa-> cortex-m0+ has the same vector table relocation as m3 and others
2020-06-19T08:52:45 < jpa-> e.g. STM32G0 series has that
2020-06-19T09:54:14 < zyp> chipant, if you need to relocate the vector table, it might be worthwhile to use a m0+ part
2020-06-19T09:55:00 < zyp> I have products using stm32l052 rather than stm32f042 just because I want that feature so I can do a custom bootloader
2020-06-19T09:55:40 < chipant> zyp, I see, got it. 
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2020-06-19T12:05:35 < mawk> Steffanx: what's "Sodemieter op"
2020-06-19T12:08:03 < mawk> is it a nice thing to say ?
2020-06-19T12:08:10 < mawk> it looks very poetic
2020-06-19T12:08:42 < effractur> it means go away
2020-06-19T12:08:50 < effractur> with a negative tone
2020-06-19T12:10:22 < mawk> like "go fuck yourself" ?
2020-06-19T12:12:19 < effractur> well sortof 
2020-06-19T12:14:12 < effractur> there are a lot of variants, like tief op, pleur op, rot op etc
2020-06-19T12:15:01 < effractur> https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/opsodemieteren
2020-06-19T12:16:32 < Cracki> >sodomize off
2020-06-19T12:17:16 < Cracki> *bayeux tapestry meme*
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2020-06-19T12:41:04 < rapha> zyp: what's the "l" stand for as opposed to the "f"?
2020-06-19T12:44:47 < jpa-> L is for lulz
2020-06-19T12:44:55 < jpa-> sometimes it also means low power
2020-06-19T12:50:04 < Steffanx> Better not say it to your gay friend, mawk. He'll be offended
2020-06-19T12:52:16 < rapha> a person who happens to be gay will be offended by "l" standing for "low power"? where is the connection there...?
2020-06-19T12:56:37 < Steffanx> Your connecting my reply to mawk to the wrong sentence rapha 
2020-06-19T12:58:29 < Steffanx> *You're
2020-06-19T13:05:02 < rapha> oh
2020-06-19T13:05:27 < rapha> i still don't get it but perhaps that's for the better
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2020-06-19T13:22:04 < Mangy_Dog> i came to realise yesterday. arduino ASP uploading is far far far slower than serial uploading (firmware)
2020-06-19T13:22:18 < Mangy_Dog> id have thought it be the other way round
2020-06-19T13:23:22 < jpa-> rapha: last night Steffanx said to mawk "sodemieter op", which he thought sounded poetic but he didn't know what Steffanx was inviting him to do
2020-06-19T13:24:17 < jpa-> Mangy_Dog: what isp adapter are you using?
2020-06-19T13:26:11 < Mangy_Dog> just some random cheapy
2020-06-19T13:26:28 < Mangy_Dog> USBASP 2.0
2020-06-19T13:26:30 < Thorn> first mp1 lot on aliexpress that I've found. very expensive https://aliexpress.com/item/4000945060424.html
2020-06-19T13:26:31 < Mangy_Dog> it says on it
2020-06-19T13:26:35 < Mangy_Dog> its a common cheapy
2020-06-19T13:27:46 < PaulFertser> Mangy_Dog: are you using avrdude? With what options?
2020-06-19T13:28:02 < Mangy_Dog> think so
2020-06-19T13:28:11 < Mangy_Dog> its what ever sloeber had already setup in its pipepine
2020-06-19T13:28:38 < PaulFertser> Well avrdude can be pretty slow if you ask it to.
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2020-06-19T13:34:10 < Mangy_Dog> avrdude: warning: cannot set sck period. please check for usbasp firmware update. 
2020-06-19T13:34:15 < Mangy_Dog> ahh maybe its just running slow because of that
2020-06-19T13:35:15 < PaulFertser> Mangy_Dog: yes, if you have another atmega ISP device or arduino or something it's highly recommended to update avrasp version. For whatever reason the cheapest china clones come with outdated firmware.
2020-06-19T13:38:07 < Steffanx> love you too, jpa-
2020-06-19T13:43:51 < Mangy_Dog> wait what
2020-06-19T13:44:10 < Mangy_Dog> usbasp latest is from 2011, and the chinese copies arent even using that version?
2020-06-19T13:46:35 < PaulFertser> Mangy_Dog: might be so, please compare the version numbers
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2020-06-19T14:07:22 < Mangy_Dog> :/
2020-06-19T14:07:35 < Mangy_Dog> trying to connect to isp through avrdude
2020-06-19T14:07:42 < Mangy_Dog> betting invailid device sig
2020-06-19T14:07:46 < Mangy_Dog> 0x00000000
2020-06-19T14:07:52 < Mangy_Dog> getting
2020-06-19T14:13:30 < Mangy_Dog> found it
2020-06-19T14:13:37 < Mangy_Dog> forgot to link j2 jumper
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2020-06-19T14:27:06 < Mangy_Dog> slight palaver but asp updated
2020-06-19T14:27:28 < Mangy_Dog> it wouldnt find the file when it was in c:\
2020-06-19T14:27:43 < Mangy_Dog> but would find it if i put it into the avrdude folder and removed the c: bit
2020-06-19T14:27:49 < Mangy_Dog> strange but its sorted now
2020-06-19T14:28:03 < Mangy_Dog> maybe windows security blocking accessing files directly on c
2020-06-19T14:28:17 < Mangy_Dog> i didnt run cmd as admin sooooo
2020-06-19T14:28:20 < Mangy_Dog> maybe that
2020-06-19T14:32:34 < PaulFertser> Mangy_Dog: more likely it didn't like the windows style path specification or something like that.
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2020-06-19T14:33:34 < Mangy_Dog> maybe
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2020-06-19T14:41:23 < englishman> haha they are still using that old version that doesn't set clock speed
2020-06-19T14:43:42 < Steffanx> Im surprised to see you say that englishman  :P
2020-06-19T14:44:32 < Steffanx> Because AVR
2020-06-19T14:46:10 < englishman> how so
2020-06-19T14:46:34 < englishman> I have a usbasp and usbisp (two of them) and pickit and all that trash for trash chips
2020-06-19T14:46:57 < englishman> how do you think I know they are trash
2020-06-19T15:00:06 < Steffanx> I was hoping you purged it all from your mind
2020-06-19T15:01:23 < PaulFertser> Are you still doing AVR at work Steffanx ?
2020-06-19T15:02:16 < Steffanx> No, mr PaulFertser. Are you?
2020-06-19T15:04:10 < PaulFertser> Steffanx: didn't have to do anything with that stuff for years, luckily.
2020-06-19T15:04:39 < PaulFertser> Steffanx: but I'm getting a cheap "lab PSU" impersonation device soon, I wouldn't be surprised if it has atmega inside :/
2020-06-19T15:05:20 < Steffanx> Last time for me was xmega. 0.75 years ago...
2020-06-19T15:05:28 < PaulFertser> It's already waiting for me at the post office but I'm not going there in fear of getting someone ill, I still have slightly elevated body temperature.
2020-06-19T15:11:33 < Steffanx> No test for you yet?
2020-06-19T15:12:00 < PaulFertser> I decided to not go for the test as I do not want to go to the "observatory" in case it's positive.
2020-06-19T15:15:24 < Steffanx> You will have to go there? Im glad its still self-quarantining herr
2020-06-19T15:15:27 < Steffanx> Here
2020-06-19T15:17:48 < PaulFertser> Well, either that, or I'll have to use some android app called "social monitoring" that will be asking me to make a "selfie" every now and then and will fine me when it thinks I'm too slow with that or if its GNSS module gives coordinates too far away from my home (which can happen at random obviously).
2020-06-19T15:39:30 < zyp> heh
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2020-06-19T15:59:34 < Cracki> can you submit lewd selfies?
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2020-06-19T16:16:25 < brdb> don't forget to take the zoom meeting with you to the bathroom
2020-06-19T16:16:30 < brdb> power play ^
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2020-06-19T16:21:59 < kakimir> midsommar
2020-06-19T16:29:13 < strata> dude that movie was f*cked
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2020-06-19T16:36:16 < PaulFertser> Cracki: I'm not sure, haven't tried to find the exact terms of use. But I guess that might be illegal in general, so not appropriate in the specific case too.
2020-06-19T16:41:11 < mawk> just wear a mask PaulFertser 
2020-06-19T16:41:14 < mawk> then a mask on top of your mask
2020-06-19T16:41:21 < mawk> then waterboard yourself so the virus cannot get out
2020-06-19T16:45:36 < mawk> you should build a wall around chechnya PaulFertser 
2020-06-19T16:46:17 < mawk> save Dijon
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2020-06-19T16:56:49 < kakimir> ah movie strata?
2020-06-19T16:56:55 < kakimir> you recommend?
2020-06-19T16:57:17 < PaulFertser> mawk: tbh, I have no idea why russia didn't want to build a wall there and let them live however they want.
2020-06-19T17:01:07 < PaulFertser> OK my fellow cat fans, scientists proved you gotta hide your passion to avoid staying incel https://www.mdpi.com/2076-2615/10/6/1007
2020-06-19T17:05:46 < mawk> :(
2020-06-19T17:05:51 < mawk> but I like my cat
2020-06-19T17:06:47 < kakimir> PaulFertser: you think the signaling is unintentional? 
2020-06-19T17:08:37 < PaulFertser> kakimir: do you mean there's a flaw in the research methodology there?
2020-06-19T17:08:45 < kakimir> no
2020-06-19T17:09:43 < PaulFertser> And talking about cats, something englishman's cat might enjoy during the winters https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YiE8V7sqjvw
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2020-06-19T17:24:21 < Steffanx> Kakimir: i watched "you should have left" yesterday 
2020-06-19T17:24:54 < Steffanx> When I downloaded it, it had a 8.4 on imdb. This it was a 5.6. Lol
2020-06-19T17:25:55 < kakimir> you mean today+
2020-06-19T17:25:58 < kakimir> ?
2020-06-19T17:26:11 < Steffanx> This morning. Yes 
2020-06-19T17:26:30 < Steffanx> I skipped that word somehow
2020-06-19T17:26:39 < kakimir> did you check it again because?
2020-06-19T17:26:55 < kakimir> it was so good?
2020-06-19T17:27:04 < Steffanx> No, not so good.
2020-06-19T17:27:33 < Steffanx> It was released like.. yesterday
2020-06-19T17:29:10 < Steffanx> I checked it again, because i did not believe it was worth a 8.4, mt kakimir 
2020-06-19T17:29:19 < rapha> jpa-: wait, so in Dutch "sodemieter" really does mean "to engage in sodomy"?
2020-06-19T17:30:29 < Steffanx> It does kinda originate from that rapha 
2020-06-19T17:30:55 < Steffanx> But nowadays no one will really think of that when i say "sodemieter op"
2020-06-19T17:31:03 < rapha> Steffanx: "kinda"? what's the etymology then? "invented by Osdorp Posse"?
2020-06-19T17:31:17 < rapha> oh, so it's like "fuck you"?
2020-06-19T17:32:49 < Steffanx> It seems it originates from "someone who engages in sodomy" .
2020-06-19T17:32:56 < jpa-> Steffanx: maybe you just can't tell the difference when you are thinking of *that* all the time anyway!
2020-06-19T17:33:39 < PaulFertser> So similar to "bugger off"
2020-06-19T17:33:52 < Steffanx> "Fuck off" would be closer i think rapha
2020-06-19T17:34:33 < srk> win 94
2020-06-19T17:34:36 < srk> ffs
2020-06-19T17:34:46 < rapha> cool, een nieuwe nederlandse woord voor mijn bitje nederlands, dank je wel :)
2020-06-19T17:35:07 < Steffanx> Since when you can see into my brain mr jpa- ?
2020-06-19T17:35:13 < PaulFertser> Steffanx: isn't my translation closer?
2020-06-19T17:36:19 < jpa-> Steffanx: remember that weird scar in your neck after that one night?
2020-06-19T17:36:36 < Steffanx> Not sure, PaulFertser. Does english have some version of it that involves sodomy?
2020-06-19T17:36:42 < srk> PaulFertser: mad vid :D
2020-06-19T17:37:10 < PaulFertser> Steffanx: to bugger meant sodomy originally
2020-06-19T17:37:14 < PaulFertser> But not much anymore
2020-06-19T17:37:26 < PaulFertser> Buggery
2020-06-19T17:37:35 < Steffanx> It does. Ok..
2020-06-19T17:38:03 < PaulFertser> So surprisingly similar parallel language development it was.
2020-06-19T17:38:19 < PaulFertser> srk: there's a behind the scenes for that too
2020-06-19T17:38:42 < Steffanx> Hmm, so what is my usb connector for jpa-  (http://imgur.com/a/N8tc87A, like that)
2020-06-19T17:38:50 < Steffanx> ?
2020-06-19T17:39:38 < jpa-> Steffanx: usb is so old school, the chip uses 5g
2020-06-19T17:39:38 < srk> PaulFertser: hehe, just started autoplaying
2020-06-19T17:46:10 < rapha> by grandmother (who didn't speak English) always remarked that it sounded similar to the Swabian dialect she spoke
2020-06-19T17:46:32 < rapha> i mean, 2k years ago we were all kind of influenced by the romans and then there was a lot of back and forth
2020-06-19T17:46:37 < rapha> so all of that makes sense
2020-06-19T18:24:37 < braindamage> PaulFertser (chat.freenode.net): feed it fake data, prepare a series of selfies beforehand and then you can just use android emulator, you can create a  virtual cam which can get data from lunix as well as coordinates
2020-06-19T18:25:55 < braindamage> best if done indoors with no outside illumination, so that time of the day doesn't matter
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2020-06-19T18:53:00 < englishman> ty PaulFertser
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2020-06-19T19:45:32 < mawk> I said to a coworker his dutch was wrong Steffanx 
2020-06-19T19:45:35 < mawk> and he believed me
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2020-06-19T20:42:52 < englishman> looks like octavo has abandoned stm32mp1
2020-06-19T20:45:37 < Steffanx> Thats fast
2020-06-19T20:46:15 < kakimir> what octavo is?
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2020-06-19T21:16:05 < karlp> 2they only just announed their mp1 module?!
2020-06-19T21:16:14 < karlp> must hve run into some hideous errata?
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2020-06-19T21:20:55 < zyp> haha, wat
2020-06-19T21:26:41 < zyp> https://octavosystems.com/octavo_products/osd32mp15x/ idk, nothing here suggests any sort of EOL
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2020-06-19T21:33:51 < qyx>  wait what
2020-06-19T21:34:07 < qyx> englishman: how do you know?
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2020-06-19T22:08:55 < Cracki> >Men holding cats were viewed as less masculine; more neurotic, agreeable, and open; and less dateable.
2020-06-19T22:10:16 < jpa-> is radiocarbon dating disturbed by all the cat hair?
2020-06-19T22:10:32 < Cracki> cat eyes contain radium
2020-06-19T22:11:01 < jpa-> makes sense
2020-06-19T22:14:27 < Cracki> human male noses contain magnetite. that's why men have a superior sense of orientation
2020-06-19T22:15:07 < Cracki> and now something true: half of all dogs have a bone where humans don't
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2020-06-19T22:42:59 < Cracki> anyone got an aliex link to "known decent" flux?
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2020-06-19T23:07:47 < englishman> they were all obsoleted on digiJEW but now I guess they were just updating part numbers
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--- Day changed Sat Jun 20 2020
2020-06-20T00:00:44 < zyp> came across «Here is what Petteri has done:» in some random shit I'm reading, my mind immediately went «oh, that must be jpa-»
2020-06-20T00:00:56 < Mangy_Dog> https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/712707094561816676/723642947781918841/IMG_20200619_215751.jpg
2020-06-20T00:00:56 < Mangy_Dog> finally just got round to adding the bowden tube that the nylon string will travel through to pull the chevron mechanism
2020-06-20T00:00:56 < zyp> also, it was
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2020-06-20T00:22:15 < zyp> hmm, what's a good code pattern for drivers registering interrupt handlers?
2020-06-20T00:29:19 < zyp> https://cgit.jvnv.net/laks/tree/i2c/i2c.h <- e.g. in my old i2c driver class, I have irq_ev() and irq_er() methods, and then when instancing the driver I also add interrupt handler functions that just act as wrappers to call those methods
2020-06-20T00:36:00 < zyp> ideally I'd want a simpler way to make a static registration
2020-06-20T00:52:21 < zyp> hmm
2020-06-20T00:52:41 < zyp> tried to make a static function in a templated class, but that doesn't seem to emit a symbol at all
2020-06-20T00:56:51 < karlp> pretty hard to avoid the indirection without forcing linker requirements on the app user is there?
2020-06-20T00:59:08 < zyp> if I put the vector table in ram, I could give it the pointer of the static member function at runtime
2020-06-20T01:00:17 < zyp> it's not really about avoiding the indirection, it's unavoidable
2020-06-20T01:00:43 < karlp> so what are you trying to avoid?
2020-06-20T01:01:26 < zyp> the user having to manually make the wrapper
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2020-06-20T01:17:42 < zyp> hrm, if I reference the static member function in the templated class, it's actually emitted, but not otherwise
2020-06-20T01:18:16 < zyp> I guess the rules are it gets emitted in every unit referencing it and then just merged at linking
2020-06-20T01:18:50 < zyp> which won't work with the weak symbol magic used to make vector tables
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2020-06-20T02:08:03 < Mangy_Dog>  https://hastebin.com/adidinukug.md i sometimes question my programming skills... because when i see simple code like this and still not understand whats actually going on! most specifically the spiread function
2020-06-20T02:11:42 < PaulFertser> Mangy_Dog: so is usbasp faster now with new firmware?
2020-06-20T02:12:23 < Mangy_Dog> is slightly faster
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2020-06-20T02:12:35 < Mangy_Dog> but im not sure if its as fast or not as the usb serial
2020-06-20T02:12:41 < PaulFertser> The comment on line 73 looks really odd, I wonder what they really meant.
2020-06-20T02:13:19 < Mangy_Dog> tbh the specific spi read function is confusing to me
2020-06-20T02:13:35 < Mangy_Dog> and yes that comment makes no sense to me
2020-06-20T02:13:41 < Mangy_Dog> but whats |=
2020-06-20T02:13:43 < PaulFertser> What's odd about the function?
2020-06-20T02:14:02 < PaulFertser> a |= b is a shortcut way to write a = a | b
2020-06-20T02:14:37 < Mangy_Dog> ok whats a= a | b or more specifically... whats |
2020-06-20T02:15:03 < PaulFertser> binary OR
2020-06-20T02:15:11 < Mangy_Dog> i thought || was or :/
2020-06-20T02:15:17 < PaulFertser> || is logical OR
2020-06-20T02:15:23 < Mangy_Dog> ah
2020-06-20T02:15:33 < PaulFertser> | works on each bit individually
2020-06-20T02:15:37 < Mangy_Dog> right
2020-06-20T02:16:45 < Mangy_Dog> i still struggle with bitwise too tbh
2020-06-20T02:17:03 < PaulFertser> With bitwise what?
2020-06-20T02:17:08 < Mangy_Dog> <<
2020-06-20T02:17:09 < Mangy_Dog> but
2020-06-20T02:17:13 < Mangy_Dog> i think i can see it now
2020-06-20T02:18:02 < Mangy_Dog> if digtalRead i assum =HIGH bit = 1
2020-06-20T02:18:13 < Mangy_Dog> and 0 is skipped if low
2020-06-20T02:18:26 < Mangy_Dog> as the init is 00000000
2020-06-20T02:18:31 < PaulFertser> Right
2020-06-20T02:19:11 < Mangy_Dog> shifting the brackets down make it easyer to see the loop and if ends
2020-06-20T02:19:12 < Mangy_Dog> :D
2020-06-20T02:19:13 < Mangy_Dog> that helped
2020-06-20T02:19:24 < Mangy_Dog> i hate it when opening brackets are on the same line
2020-06-20T02:20:40 < Mangy_Dog> and the reason the loop is 7-0 is because the stream must be in bigendian?
2020-06-20T02:21:25 < PaulFertser> Most likely so, the bit order is specified in the datasheet.
2020-06-20T02:21:45 < Mangy_Dog> ive only briefly glanced at the datasheet
2020-06-20T02:21:58 < Mangy_Dog> its also 12:20 and i should be heading to bed but i wanted to take a look
2020-06-20T02:22:11 < PaulFertser> When you do not need full precision you can read just the leading bits.
2020-06-20T02:22:39 < PaulFertser> So you can trade time for precision
2020-06-20T02:23:33 < Mangy_Dog> in this case its talking in 10ns
2020-06-20T02:23:42 < Mangy_Dog> *7
2020-06-20T02:23:43 < Mangy_Dog> *
2020-06-20T02:23:45 < Mangy_Dog> 8
2020-06-20T02:23:48 < Mangy_Dog> gah
2020-06-20T02:23:56 < Mangy_Dog> anyway dont need to be faster than that :p
2020-06-20T02:24:29 < PaulFertser> Also, that's just how https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Successive-approximation_ADC works, you naturally get the most significant bit first.
2020-06-20T02:26:35 < Mangy_Dog> i just wish tbh that the thermal coupler and ssr would sodding turn up
2020-06-20T02:26:45 < Mangy_Dog> been nearly 4 weeks since i ordered them
2020-06-20T02:26:46 < Mangy_Dog> :/
2020-06-20T02:26:49 < PaulFertser> The delays are in microseconds but the insane library surely adds measureble overhead on each read and write too.
2020-06-20T02:27:03 < Mangy_Dog> yeah
2020-06-20T02:30:51 < Mangy_Dog> A
2020-06-20T02:30:51 < Mangy_Dog> complete serial interface read requires 16 clock cycles.
2020-06-20T02:30:51 < Mangy_Dog> Read the 16 output bits on the falling edge of the clock.
2020-06-20T02:30:51 < Mangy_Dog> The first bit, D15, is a dummy sign bit and is always
2020-06-20T02:30:51 < Mangy_Dog> zero. Bits D14–D3 contain the converted temperature
2020-06-20T02:30:51 < Mangy_Dog> in the order of MSB to LSB. Bit D2 is normally low and
2020-06-20T02:30:52 < Mangy_Dog> goes high when the thermocouple input is open.
2020-06-20T02:30:54 < Mangy_Dog> oh ffs
2020-06-20T02:31:01 < Mangy_Dog> sorry 
2020-06-20T02:31:07 < Mangy_Dog> thought that was one line
2020-06-20T02:31:12 < Mangy_Dog> anyway that from the datasheet
2020-06-20T02:31:23 < Mangy_Dog> thats confusing as the function only reads 8 bits
2020-06-20T02:31:51 < Mangy_Dog> oh wait no
2020-06-20T02:31:55 < Mangy_Dog> it calls teh read twice
2020-06-20T02:32:03 < Mangy_Dog> after shifting the first read 8 bits over
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2020-06-20T02:39:09 < Cracki> maxim!!! their 44009 (light sensor) has the two bytes the other way around. professionals
2020-06-20T02:44:12 < Mangy_Dog> joy
2020-06-20T02:44:15 < Mangy_Dog> anyway must sleep
2020-06-20T02:44:17 < Mangy_Dog> nn all
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2020-06-20T02:56:38 < Cracki> arduino's wire (i2c) api is absolute dog shit. doesn't map to what i2c actually does, at all.
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2020-06-20T03:36:39 < rajkosto> you can remove wire (i2c) from that sentence
2020-06-20T03:36:41 < rajkosto> still 100% true
2020-06-20T03:37:14 < rajkosto> they also make their APIs super dumb like make it a class with member methods but then make all the members static
2020-06-20T03:37:35 < rajkosto> so if you have more than one of one peripheral good luck using different addresses for it
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2020-06-20T03:38:28 < rajkosto> they just have you #define the addresses usually
2020-06-20T03:45:07 < Cracki> ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
2020-06-20T03:45:26 < Cracki> at least they have re(peated) start now.
2020-06-20T03:46:15 < Cracki> the proper sequence seems to be begintransmission(device_addr); write(register); endtrans(false); requestfrom(device, nbytes); read... endtrans()
2020-06-20T03:46:31 < Cracki> tho there is duplication of the "stop" flag
2020-06-20T03:50:04 < Cracki> btw, reflow works with a tea light and a metal lid from a jar... needed to use leaded solder tho, that barely melted on top of the pcb
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2020-06-20T10:15:58 < jpa-> zyp: oh, you are nuttx user now! ;)
2020-06-20T10:48:26 < zyp> jpa-, nah, I googled something else and ended up in nuttx docs
2020-06-20T10:50:02 < jpa-> yep
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2020-06-20T11:07:16 < azonenberg> Welp, when i started design on this project i did not think i was going to end up using all four i2c controllers on my F777
2020-06-20T11:08:03 < azonenberg> and at least two of those buses are going to be pretty crowded
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2020-06-20T12:06:07 < jpa-> if you are not short on bandwidth, you can use alternate function mapping to multiplex the buses
2020-06-20T12:06:38 < jpa-> i.e. to address bus 1, map I2C1 on pins A and B, then to address bus, map it on pins X and Y
2020-06-20T12:06:46 < zyp> or one of those external switches
2020-06-20T12:07:52 < zyp> e.g. TCA9548A
2020-06-20T12:13:08 < azonenberg> jpa-: none of it is super fast so i think i'm good as is. i needed a few unique domains due to a combination of address collisions and power domains
2020-06-20T12:13:13 < azonenberg> some had to be on 3V3_SB and some on 3V3
2020-06-20T12:13:37 < azonenberg> then i have a fifth i2c bus dedicated to one of the FPGAs to read an eeprom with some config on it, but that's not bridged to the STM so you can't use it for anything else
2020-06-20T12:15:14 < azonenberg> Right now I2C has twelve devices on it , INA233s monitoring power to external peripherals
2020-06-20T12:15:16 < azonenberg> I2C1*
2020-06-20T12:15:28 < zyp> meanwhile I'm planning to put everything on one i2c bus on the fpga board I'm working on
2020-06-20T12:16:34 < jadew> webcam comparison video: https://youtu.be/ffb0S8l6by0?t=215
2020-06-20T12:16:35 < azonenberg> I2C2 is in 3V3_SB and has the SPD EEPROM for the RAM, as well as all of the INA233s on the various system power rails that i havent put in the schematic yet
2020-06-20T12:16:56 < azonenberg> Then I2C3 is the QSFP+ ID EEPROM and has to be in its own domain because it's on the QSFP power rail
2020-06-20T12:17:06 < azonenberg> and I2C4 is for the front panel LCD touch controller and i wanted dedicated for bandwidth reasons
2020-06-20T12:17:29 < azonenberg> so i dont have lots of latency waiting for sensor polling to finish before a touch event is handled
2020-06-20T12:18:11 < zyp> spd eeprom, crosspoint switch, clock synth, maybe three PMICs, a bunch of INA233s to monitor various power rails
2020-06-20T12:20:00 < azonenberg> you're using the ina233 too? i actually just discovered it
2020-06-20T12:20:08 < azonenberg> the 226 had been my montor of choice until recently
2020-06-20T12:20:32 < zyp> I don't remember which one exactly I were looking at, I haven't added it to the schematics yet
2020-06-20T12:20:57 < azonenberg> the 233 has iirc overcurrent/overpower limit warnings on the alert
2020-06-20T12:21:01 < azonenberg> 226 i think just has voltage limits
2020-06-20T12:21:13 < zyp> I saw the stm32g071-disco using some, was planning to use those
2020-06-20T12:22:13 < zyp> ah, those are INA230
2020-06-20T12:22:38 < azonenberg> zyp: out of curiosity what's the board do?
2020-06-20T12:24:26 < zyp> https://bin.jvnv.net/file/tAJNw.png
2020-06-20T12:25:09 < azonenberg> pcie to some kind of top mounted connectors with some ddr?
2020-06-20T12:25:31 < azonenberg> and a bga nor flash it looks
2020-06-20T12:25:33 < zyp> it's kinda an ecp5-based playground
2020-06-20T12:25:44 < azonenberg> ah i was gonna say, i dont know what it is but i can tell you it's not xilinx
2020-06-20T12:26:25 < zyp> I don't have one specific purpose in mind, but a bunch of things that might be possible
2020-06-20T12:26:28 < azonenberg> Makes sense
2020-06-20T12:26:38 < azonenberg> the board i'm working on is very much specialized for a particular task. and a lot larger
2020-06-20T12:27:21 < azonenberg> 96 channel 1.25 Gsps (with four ultra fast 10 Gsps channels) logic analyzer
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2020-06-20T12:27:35 < azonenberg> with a ddr3 sodimm for buffering data and 40GbE for offloading data to the outside world
2020-06-20T12:27:53 < zyp> I'm designing this to fit into a subrack with a custom backplane using pcie connectors, but it'll work well standalone also
2020-06-20T12:28:00 < azonenberg> 3U eurocard?
2020-06-20T12:28:06 < azonenberg> i thought i recognized the corner connectors
2020-06-20T12:28:08 < zyp> yes, but reduced depth
2020-06-20T12:28:27 < azonenberg> i actually had a similar idea for a project a while back that i spent a while working on but never finished
2020-06-20T12:28:43 < azonenberg> i wasnt going to use pcie as the actual signaling protocol but was going to reuse the connector for ease of implementation
2020-06-20T12:28:59 < azonenberg> Anyway so my design has a Kintex-7 FPGA for the fast stuff, a little Spartan-7 for I/O expansion, then a STM32F777 for sequencing all of the power rails, running the management interface, and driving the front panel LCD
2020-06-20T12:29:12 < zyp> I'm keeping the pcie pinout so it can be plugged into standard pcie slots too
2020-06-20T12:30:11 < azonenberg> I still have 68 unused pins at the moment, so the F777 might be overkill, but i'm also not done with the design
2020-06-20T12:30:16 < zyp> :)
2020-06-20T12:30:39 < azonenberg> the 676-ball kintex7 and the 196-ball spartan7 are both going to be at 80%+ io utilization though
2020-06-20T12:30:54 < azonenberg> i probably could have combined them into one 900 ball chip but that would have meant more layers on the board
2020-06-20T12:30:56 < azonenberg> this looked to be cheaper
2020-06-20T12:31:05 < zyp> I'll use a stm32g0 for power management
2020-06-20T12:31:28 < zyp> it'll do usb-pd comms on both the main usb-c connectors as well, board can be pd-powered
2020-06-20T12:32:11 < Mangy_Dog> post been still nothing.... i think im going to have to give in and buy the ssr and thermocoupler locally :/ knowing my luck the parts will turn up monday and the local parts a week from tuesday!
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2020-06-20T15:17:43 < strata> :: Searching AUR for updates...
2020-06-20T15:17:45 < strata>  -> Flagged Out Of Date AUR Packages:  stm32cubemx
2020-06-20T15:17:47 < strata> REEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE
2020-06-20T15:18:11 < zyp> aww
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2020-06-20T15:32:20 < Cracki> meaning you get to download a jiggabyte of datasheets, or that the maintainer jumped off a bridge?
2020-06-20T15:33:37 < specing> azonenberg: that's a beefy mcu just to do management
2020-06-20T15:33:49 < specing> but we all know that you are mr. Overkill
2020-06-20T15:35:14 < azonenberg> specing: well i needed a ton of pins, lots of i2c, and an lcd interface
2020-06-20T15:35:19 < azonenberg> enough ram for a framebuffer
2020-06-20T15:35:31 < azonenberg> plus i was lazy and already had a kicad symbol for the f777 from another project
2020-06-20T15:35:52 < azonenberg> and honestly, trying to penny pinch $3 with a smaller mcu on a $2K+ project is just not worth it
2020-06-20T15:37:04 < specing> I'm actually surprised you penny pinched a f777 in there when you could have plopped in cortex-a9 with Linux
2020-06-20T15:38:17 < azonenberg> are you kidding?
2020-06-20T15:38:25 < azonenberg> that's more work by far (plus not hard realtime)
2020-06-20T15:38:43 < azonenberg> it means i have to lay out a second ddr ram bus, a bigger package, compile a whole ton of dependencies
2020-06-20T15:38:58 < azonenberg> i have never done linux on a project unless the client forced me to, and plan to keep it that way
2020-06-20T15:39:15 < azonenberg> i'd much rather run on bare metal
2020-06-20T15:39:27 < specing> :)
2020-06-20T15:39:37 < azonenberg> with my code loaded via jtag, no messing around with an OS, no external parts other than some bypass caps
2020-06-20T15:39:49 < azonenberg> when i use a mcu i want simplicity, it's basically a "state machine accelerator" to me
2020-06-20T15:39:57 < azonenberg> something that lets me do complex control flow in less work than writing systemverilog
2020-06-20T15:40:17 < azonenberg> the less i have to think about it, the better
2020-06-20T15:40:54 < azonenberg> if i could get a cortex-m4 on a big fpga with lots of GPIOs and such, so no need to mess around with axi or custom memory mapped io, i might do that
2020-06-20T15:41:04 < azonenberg> but zynq is a giant pain in the butt and extremely painful to use bare metal, i've tried
2020-06-20T15:41:10 < PaulFertser> How do implement hard realtime btw?
2020-06-20T15:41:18 < specing> I'm surprised fpgas do not come with a m0
2020-06-20T15:41:32 < azonenberg> xilinx has a m0 IP core you can put in the design, but it's not hard wired so it burns fpga resources
2020-06-20T15:41:38 < azonenberg> also i couldnt use a softcore here anyway
2020-06-20T15:41:43 < specing> given that f03 is 60 cents in qty1, I'm sure it wouldn't even make a dent in pricing
2020-06-20T15:41:48 < azonenberg> because one of the functions of this micro is sequencing all of the power rails :p
2020-06-20T15:41:55 < azonenberg> but in the general sense i would love that
2020-06-20T15:42:05 < azonenberg> transistor wise, an m0 is about the size of a block ram
2020-06-20T15:42:13 < azonenberg> you could have literally hundreds of them in a good sized fpga without a major impact on area
2020-06-20T15:42:38 < specing> see
2020-06-20T15:43:22 < azonenberg> but like i said for this design an external micro made sense
2020-06-20T15:43:43 < azonenberg> i'm using over 100 gpios on the f777
2020-06-20T15:45:01 < azonenberg> heck, i put a second fpga on here because the 676 ball kintex7 was full
2020-06-20T15:45:09 < azonenberg> and i used ~80 pins on the spartan
2020-06-20T15:45:19 < PaulFertser> Interesting, so Xilinx allows to use cortex-m1 softcore for free.
2020-06-20T15:46:07 < azonenberg> well arm does, its their core
2020-06-20T15:46:09 < azonenberg> xilinx just runs it :p
2020-06-20T15:46:27 < zyp> at this point, risc-v softcores are also a reasonable option
2020-06-20T15:46:52 < PaulFertser> azonenberg: so what RTOS are you using and is there any checklist or procedure you follow to guarantee hard RT?
2020-06-20T15:48:11 < azonenberg> PaulFertser: well the only part that really needs hard RT is the power sequencing during startup and shutdown. and i havent figured out the full software stack yet as i'm not even done with the pcb schematic
2020-06-20T15:48:13 < Cracki> I think it's less about "hard!" rt than it is about having to move huge amounts of data, and never losing any, even without much buffering
2020-06-20T15:48:37 < azonenberg> but my plan was to have a single application "thread" then a bunch of ISRs
2020-06-20T15:48:39 < PaulFertser> azonenberg: that part sounds like not needing a RTOS even, I see.
2020-06-20T15:49:01 < azonenberg> there's not a ton of stuff going on, the most complex part will be the front panel LCD
2020-06-20T15:49:13 < azonenberg> and then processing some commands coming in on a uart
2020-06-20T15:49:33 < azonenberg> most of the intelligence of the project is on the bigger of the two fpgas
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2020-06-20T16:57:39 < jadew> https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-8432321/Government-orders-review-vitamin-D-role-Covid-19.html
2020-06-20T16:57:54 < jadew> "Nearly 99 per cent of Covid-19 patients who are vitamin D deficient die, according to a terrifying study that adds to mounting evidence that the 'sunshine' nutrient could be a coronavirus life-saver."
2020-06-20T16:57:58 < jadew> time for sunbathing
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2020-06-20T17:31:40 < Cracki> well who are vitamin d deficient people?
2020-06-20T17:32:04 < Cracki> 99% of people with "old people skin spots" die
2020-06-20T17:32:53 < jadew> some people here might be vit. D deficient
2020-06-20T17:33:05 < jadew> I rarely leave the house for example
2020-06-20T17:34:46 < Cracki> >Researchers warned the study was not definitive, however, because the patients with high vitamin D levels were healthier and younger.
2020-06-20T17:34:53 < Cracki> all press is yellow press
2020-06-20T17:35:02 < Cracki> journos lie people die
2020-06-20T17:35:36 < jadew> so vitamin D also makes you younger
2020-06-20T17:35:41 < Cracki> indeed
2020-06-20T17:35:46 < jadew> another reason to take it
2020-06-20T17:36:00 < Cracki> or just be younger, that magically produces vitamin D
2020-06-20T17:36:20 < Cracki> be healthy, it prevents death
2020-06-20T17:36:30 < Cracki> be alive, it brings health
2020-06-20T17:37:16 < Cracki> stuff herbs in your plague doc mask. it doesn't save you but you don't have to smell the rotting undead
2020-06-20T17:38:43 < jadew> speaking of masks... have you wore one for a couple of hours?
2020-06-20T17:39:10 < Cracki> could you rephrase the question
2020-06-20T17:39:48 < jadew> a respirator
2020-06-20T17:40:01 < Cracki> yes, sweaty face causes gas mask
2020-06-20T17:40:13 < jadew> when you finally take it off, everything smells like flowers
2020-06-20T17:40:39 < Cracki> no, last I wore anything rubbery on my face was when I wasn't even a teenager, and it was underwater goggles
2020-06-20T17:40:56 < Cracki> like flowers??
2020-06-20T17:41:07 < jadew> yep
2020-06-20T17:41:19 < Cracki> I notice that with the paper masks various stenches are more intense inside the mask
2020-06-20T17:41:27 < Cracki> must be the better humidification of the nostrils
2020-06-20T17:42:03 < Cracki> people's perfumes (shower instead, you filthy fucks!), people's body odor (...), ...
2020-06-20T17:43:47 < Cracki> train stations get pressure washed. they should do that to passengers too
2020-06-20T17:45:21 < strata> who are vit-D deficient people?
2020-06-20T17:45:38 < Cracki> blacks and vampires
2020-06-20T17:45:39 < strata> "stay inside, people. quarantine."
2020-06-20T17:45:42 < Cracki> ^
2020-06-20T17:45:44 < Cracki> xactly
2020-06-20T17:46:31 < Cracki> stay inside, old people, we need you fuck out of the welfare system before all our cities are in flaming ruins!
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2020-06-20T18:22:47 < aandrew> you really don't get that much D from the sun, you have to have significant skin exposure for considerable time to get it that way
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2020-06-20T18:26:58 < Cracki> "health professionals say" 10-20 minutes of sun are enough. not sure who to believe.
2020-06-20T18:27:34 < Cracki> not sure if they mean 10-30 minutes on the naked arse or if you can wear a hazmat suit
2020-06-20T18:28:31 < Cracki> harvard.edu says "15 minutes, arms and legs" https://www.health.harvard.edu/staying-healthy/time-for-more-vitamin-d
2020-06-20T18:29:28 < Cracki> and they all disagree on how many IU/day to pop, if you take supplements
2020-06-20T18:30:05 < Cracki> I've seen mention of 1k-10k. it's very difficult to overdose.
2020-06-20T18:32:02 < Cracki> https://www.healthline.com/nutrition/how-much-vitamin-d-to-take#How-Much-Vitamin-D-Should-You-Take?
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2020-06-20T18:40:40 < aandrew> lolduino
2020-06-20T18:40:50 < aandrew> incluing arduinostl makes compile time blow up like 6x
2020-06-20T18:41:02 < aandrew> as in take 6x longer
2020-06-20T18:41:53 < Laurenceb> https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-7557947/Shy-awkward-student-19-faces-JAIL-sex-assault-conviction.html
2020-06-20T18:41:55 < Laurenceb> damn
2020-06-20T18:42:40 < Laurenceb> imagine having an autism level that high
2020-06-20T18:51:58 < PaulFertser> Laurenceb: are you talking about the guy or the girl?
2020-06-20T18:52:06 < Laurenceb> ikr
2020-06-20T18:52:14 < Laurenceb> autist versus autist
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2020-06-20T19:07:48 < Cracki> arduinostl, for templatery? oh boy
2020-06-20T19:08:25 < Cracki> >She told court his contact had hindered her application to Oxford University  
2020-06-20T19:08:42 < Cracki> blushing virgin asking for attention, literally RAPE
2020-06-20T19:10:11 < mawk> this dailymail page weighs 1GiB and uses 150% of processor
2020-06-20T19:10:19 < mawk> I'm pretty sure they're mining monero
2020-06-20T19:10:24 < mawk> or some bs
2020-06-20T19:10:59 < PaulFertser> Worked nicely without JS
2020-06-20T19:11:17 < Cracki> >I broke down crying - it was quite traumatic.
2020-06-20T19:11:30 < Cracki> I am cackling
2020-06-20T19:11:51 < Cracki> girl tears cause executions
2020-06-20T19:12:27 < mawk> that's why you shouldn't get anywhere near girls
2020-06-20T19:12:50 < mawk> or make them sign a consent contract for getting less than 10m to her
2020-06-20T19:13:02 < Cracki> that's why I'm suspicious of dudes who want to chop off their balls or dye their hair a venomous color
2020-06-20T19:13:07 < PaulFertser> And if you're straight and just can't help it, too bad for you.
2020-06-20T19:14:16 < mawk> you just need the right initiation PaulFertser 
2020-06-20T19:14:41 < Cracki> kill a man, all dem ladies wanna jump you
2020-06-20T19:14:50 < PaulFertser> mawk: initiation to what?
2020-06-20T19:15:50 < mawk> initiation to a life without girls
2020-06-20T19:16:04 < Cracki> the magistrate is a horny old goat: "We can think of no motivation for you to touch the victim other than sexual. "
2020-06-20T19:16:05 < mawk> I'm trying to profile the dailymail page to find their monero miner
2020-06-20T19:16:37 < Cracki> >Had she not taken evasive action the assault was likely to have been even more serious.
2020-06-20T19:16:46 < Cracki> he might have given her a HUG oh the humanity
2020-06-20T19:17:37 < Cracki> I mean sure, I would curbstomp a filthy hobo before letting him touch me but that's not a filthy hobo
2020-06-20T19:19:49 < Cracki> dude got 200h community work
2020-06-20T19:20:06 < Cracki> so he's now a slave to pussy
2020-06-20T19:20:42 < Cracki> >now studying criminology at Durham University
2020-06-20T19:21:52 < PaulFertser> Weird you mention the kind of attack that's famous for being used by literal nazis.
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2020-06-20T19:23:17 < Cracki> that girl is gonna ride so much dick when she goes to college for some useless art or "social work" degree
2020-06-20T19:26:23 < Cracki> the curbstomp wasn't invented before the demise of "literal nazis"
2020-06-20T19:42:57 < jpa-> has anyone ever had a computer with enough USB ports?
2020-06-20T19:43:54 < specing> jpa-: yes, but the ports were too close and the thicc usb flash keys blocked eachother D:
2020-06-20T19:43:54 < Ultrasauce> found cracki https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H4CCYEzlYwA
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2020-06-20T20:09:57 < zyp> jpa-, enough for what? to not need external hubs?
2020-06-20T20:15:58 < jpa-> or even to just need a reasonable number of external hubs
2020-06-20T20:16:15 < jpa-> like i'm fine with the hub behind my screen, as it brings the ports on top of the desk
2020-06-20T20:16:24 < jpa-> but having a hub dangling on back of the computer seems just silly
2020-06-20T20:17:18 < jadew> my PC has maybe 12 USB ports
2020-06-20T20:17:28 < jadew> still not enough
2020-06-20T20:17:56 < jadew> 6 or 7 on the back, 7 on the front
2020-06-20T20:18:03 < jadew> so 13-14
2020-06-20T20:18:21 < jpa-> mine has only 6 on the back, one of which is type-C
2020-06-20T20:18:23 < jadew> it's pretty decent tho
2020-06-20T20:18:30 < jadew> oh, neat
2020-06-20T20:18:31 < jadew> new PC
2020-06-20T20:18:38 < jpa-> yeah
2020-06-20T20:19:17 < jadew> nothing on the front?
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2020-06-20T20:19:28 < jpa-> 3 ports on front, but i'm not using them often
2020-06-20T20:20:03 < jpa-> i guess i could take one of them and mount the stm32f7xx discovery internally to the pc, i use it for running unittests automatically
2020-06-20T20:20:12 < jadew> eh, having a hub on the desk is convenient anyway
2020-06-20T20:20:22 < jadew> heh
2020-06-20T20:20:28 < jpa-> yeah, i'm fine with the desk hub
2020-06-20T20:20:50 < jpa-> but for stuff like that i just want it out of the view, so i now have another hub at the back
2020-06-20T20:21:29 < jadew> speaking of hubs... I need one on the other side of my lab
2020-06-20T20:22:14 < jadew> found the time to get the webcam working with the photo port on my oscilloscope, but now I have to deal with the wire
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2020-06-20T20:45:56 < Steffanx> I heard usb was obsolete jpa-.... 5G it is right?
2020-06-20T20:46:45 < jpa-> have to have somewhere to plug my dongle
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2020-06-20T21:20:12 < Cracki> pycon doesn't like men joking about their pythons
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2020-06-20T21:20:23 < kakinull> pump now
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2020-06-20T21:26:38 < mawk> maybe they should change the language name Cracki 
2020-06-20T21:26:41 < mawk> into something less phallic
2020-06-20T21:26:52 < mawk> because it's very offensive to women
2020-06-20T21:27:08 < mawk> they should call it "vulvon", that'd be a great language name
2020-06-20T21:28:23 < kakinull> are you talking about vulva?
2020-06-20T21:29:51 < Cracki> heheh
2020-06-20T21:30:07 < Cracki> inout parameters
2020-06-20T21:30:52 < mawk> yes kakinull why ?
2020-06-20T21:31:13 < kakinull> yes
2020-06-20T21:31:15 < kakinull> why?
2020-06-20T21:31:38 < mawk> because snakes are offensive
2020-06-20T21:31:43 < mawk> so I'm cooking up a snake alternative
2020-06-20T21:33:17 < kakinull> are you on something? :o
2020-06-20T21:33:20 < Cracki> womb-like animals: marsupials, WOMBats, ...
2020-06-20T21:33:57 < Cracki> kangaroos are also very offensive because very thick and meaty tail
2020-06-20T21:34:10 < Cracki> also boxing, toxic masculinity
2020-06-20T21:35:08 < mawk> why do you say that kakinull ?
2020-06-20T21:35:29 < kakinull> you talk about offencive snakes and vulvas?
2020-06-20T21:37:56 < kakinull> cooking up snake alternative? snake is some kind of drug?
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2020-06-20T22:05:09  * con3 reads up on usart
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2020-06-20T22:09:40 < Steffanx> Waffles.
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2020-06-20T22:27:09 < con3> is the bottom picture correct for usart with hardware flow control? other sources are telling me that rts needs to connect to cts... https://imgur.com/a/RUR2OQx
2020-06-20T22:30:36 < con3> oh.. its "legacy flow control"
2020-06-20T22:32:01 < qyx> I suppose the pairs are swapped depending on the role (DCE/DTE) of the other device
2020-06-20T22:32:08 < con3> https://www.silabs.com/documents/public/application-notes/an0059.0-uart-flow-control.pdf
2020-06-20T22:34:47 < con3> qyx: looks right, trying to figure out why the dce isnt responding with the cts 
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2020-06-20T23:02:33 < Cracki> this implies there is rtR/cts and rtS/cts https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/RTS/CTS
2020-06-20T23:03:13 < Cracki> con3, using stm32? RM should say?
2020-06-20T23:07:36 < Cracki> my f303cc shows a figure with cts <- rts, rts -> cts
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--- Day changed Sun Jun 21 2020
2020-06-21T00:02:28 < qyx> I must get used to route signals on the back on 4L first
2020-06-21T00:02:59 < zyp> heh
2020-06-21T00:03:11 < qyx> usually I tried to route all/most of them on the component side to keep the ground plane nice
2020-06-21T00:05:42 < zyp> I try to route everything with no more than two vias
2020-06-21T00:05:55 < zyp> everything point to point at least
2020-06-21T00:06:35 < zyp> on 2L, avoiding cuts in the ground plane is more important, on 4L I try to avoid unnecessary layer changes
2020-06-21T00:07:02 < qyx> so far the back side https://i.imgur.com/RbhdoXy.png
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2020-06-21T00:08:16 < zyp> looks fairly reasonable
2020-06-21T00:08:53 < zyp> you could do a ground pour under the SMPS section to help heat dissipation if you don't have that already
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2020-06-21T03:51:10 < strata> https://www.st.com/content/ccc/resource/technical/document/datasheet/group2/4c/ab/f9/e4/a2/6f/4f/af/CD00044249/files/CD00044249.pdf/jcr:content/translations/en.CD00044249.pdf
2020-06-21T03:51:31 < strata> is there a load driver 12A+ that's super cheap?
2020-06-21T03:51:42 < strata> quad load driver
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2020-06-21T04:03:50 < Cracki> discrete fets?
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2020-06-21T04:19:15 < strata> discrete fets for 4A each
2020-06-21T04:40:58 < mawk> https://www.geogebra.org/calculator/bdeatgby
2020-06-21T04:41:00 < mawk> disco maths
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2020-06-21T09:10:24 < azonenberg> Can I do PWM on any TIMx_CHx output?
2020-06-21T09:12:43 < jpa-> i don't remember seeing any timer output not capable of PWM
2020-06-21T09:13:21 < jpa-> CHx and CHxN are tied together with inverse polarities, though, so you can't use them for separate duty cycles; and the whole of a timer is tied to a single period
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2020-06-21T11:32:28 < dongs> atonerberg - yeah but they'll all be on same timebase
2020-06-21T11:32:42 < dongs> oh i guess jpa handled it
2020-06-21T12:17:29 < jpa-> stm32 technical support at your service
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2020-06-21T12:52:49 < Steffanx> Secrelty there is a c missing in jpa-  
2020-06-21T12:53:13 < Steffanx> A c for clive1
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2020-06-21T14:07:47 < PaulFertser> OK, I know there's plenty of chromium-based web browsers users here. Due to having to deal with cyrillic every now and then I often switch the keyboard layout and so none of the shortcuts work. What am I supposed to do to solve this issue?
2020-06-21T14:09:05 < effractur> define shortcuts?
2020-06-21T14:09:37 < effractur> there are keyboard layouts that will switch back to querty if for example ctrl is pressed
2020-06-21T14:11:47 < PaulFertser> effractur: I mean I'm normally pressing C-w to close the tab or C-l to go to the URL entry box. But in cyrillic layout I press C-б and C-з respectively, and chromium just ignores that.
2020-06-21T14:12:54 < effractur> yea so you can use a layout that switches back to qerty when you press ctrl
2020-06-21T14:13:10 < PaulFertser> Temporarily?
2020-06-21T14:13:33 < effractur> while ctrl is pressed it is querty
2020-06-21T14:13:54 < effractur> not sure if it is possible on all operating systems tho
2020-06-21T14:14:12 < PaulFertser> I'm normally using something close to "setxkbmap -layout dvorak,ru" , there's no reason I'd be using qwerty for anything. But that detail aside, is there an easy Xkb way to do what you're talking about?
2020-06-21T14:16:07 < effractur> PaulFertser: ofthen it is the dvorak-querty mapping 
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2020-06-21T14:25:59 < effractur> PaulFertser: you have the grp:rctrl_switch configuration option for example that will switch to a layout if the right controll is pressed
2020-06-21T14:30:40 < PaulFertser> effractur: I'm not familiar with it. Will it switch just temporarily? And can I combine it with lctrl_switch?
2020-06-21T14:32:44 < effractur> while rctrl is pressed it will use the other layout and send the ctrl key + the key that is pressed
2020-06-21T14:33:06 < effractur> see man xkeyboard-config
2020-06-21T14:33:20 < effractur> under Switching to another layout
2020-06-21T14:36:37 < PaulFertser> effractur: thanks for the hint, trying. It's odd that in urxvt the combinations seems to be working just fine in any layout.
2020-06-21T14:43:12 < jpa-> i wish browsers just had configurable shortcuts
2020-06-21T14:44:08 < effractur> PaulFertser: could be that urxvt already does some remapping by default
2020-06-21T14:52:30 < PaulFertser> effractur: unlikely. That rctrl_switch does temporarily switch but it doesn't send control modifier.
2020-06-21T14:54:31 < zyp> PaulFertser, sounds strange that it's an issue at all, I'd expect hotkeys to work across layouts
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2020-06-21T14:55:13 < PaulFertser> zyp: I would too...
2020-06-21T14:55:27 < zyp> hmm, it does here
2020-06-21T14:55:45 < zyp> I tried adding cyrillic, and ctrl-t/ctrl-w still works as expected in chrome
2020-06-21T14:56:09 < effractur> zyp: what OS?
2020-06-21T14:56:24 < zyp> macos
2020-06-21T14:56:41 < effractur> yea macOS does afaik default querty if you hold down cntrl
2020-06-21T14:56:48 < effractur> you can check that with the virutal keyboard
2020-06-21T14:58:09 < zyp> yeah, you're right
2020-06-21T14:58:20 < zyp> also, s/ctrl/cmd/, but same same
2020-06-21T15:00:08 < PaulFertser> zyp: macOS doesn't use Xkb I guess.
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2020-06-21T15:00:20 < PaulFertser> So no wonder the behaviour is different.
2020-06-21T15:01:15 < zyp> idk, sane behavior is sane behavior either way
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2020-06-21T15:03:57 < PaulFertser> Not sure if xkb behaviour is insane, I'd expect GUI apps to take into account keys rather than symbols when implementing shortcuts.
2020-06-21T15:04:41 < effractur> it probaly depends what kind of input source the appliation is using
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2020-06-21T15:32:44 < PaulFertser> Just wtf. Even without any tricks chromium has working shortcuts in dvorak but when switch to "ru" all shortcuts work as if it's a fucking qwerty keyboard.
2020-06-21T15:33:09 < Steffanx> Qwerty is best
2020-06-21T15:33:53 < PaulFertser> Steffanx: depends on the definition I guess. If you're typing English it's hardly anywhere near optimal by any sane measure.
2020-06-21T15:34:11 < Steffanx> Its fine for me.
2020-06-21T15:37:59 < PaulFertser> Well, if you like to be suboptimal for no reason, why not.
2020-06-21T15:40:18 < PaulFertser> FUCK CHROMIUM
2020-06-21T15:41:30 < PaulFertser> effractur: with symbols[Group1] = [ Mode_switch ], actions[Group1] = [ SetMods(modifiers=Control) ] it produces Mode_switch and the control modifier is set all right. But stupid chromium still expects qwerty shortcuts.
2020-06-21T15:41:47 < Steffanx> Its not that typing takes most of my time PaulFertser...
2020-06-21T15:42:00 < Steffanx> Thinking about what to write takes more time
2020-06-21T15:42:22 < Steffanx> So the typing inefficiency is probably irrelevant 
2020-06-21T15:43:36 < Steffanx> PaulFertser: is your maybe-COVID-19 making your more grumpy than usual? :P
2020-06-21T15:43:41 < PaulFertser> Steffanx: agreed. But what would be the reason to use qwerty at all ever? It's obsolete since Sholes typewriters were discontinued in early 1900s.
2020-06-21T15:44:04 < Steffanx> The reason.. all my machines have it.
2020-06-21T15:44:27 < PaulFertser> I bet all your machines have dvorak and colemak too.
2020-06-21T15:44:47 < Steffanx> And i prefer to have the characters on the key correspond with the actual character it produces
2020-06-21T15:44:51 < Cracki> just suffer through qwerty until you get a neuralink
2020-06-21T15:45:12 < Steffanx> I could move them around, but meh
2020-06-21T15:45:32 < PaulFertser> I was offered to try applying for a job at neuralink by one of their devs.
2020-06-21T15:45:44 < PaulFertser> Steffanx: are you not touchtyping really?
2020-06-21T15:47:24 < Steffanx> I am, but... yet it would totally confuse me. Not all of the keyboards have exactly the same layout.
2020-06-21T15:47:57 < PaulFertser> I'm surprisingly comfortable typing on almost any keyboard.
2020-06-21T15:48:12 < PaulFertser> Getting used to specific layouts pretty fast.
2020-06-21T15:49:03 < Steffanx> Anyway this won't solve your issues ;)
2020-06-21T15:51:44 < PaulFertser> I'd just use firefox but somehow Debian manages to miscompile it.
2020-06-21T15:52:02 < PaulFertser> Including NEON instructions not supported by Tegra2
2020-06-21T16:04:15 < Steffanx> Heh
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2020-06-21T19:23:59 < Cracki> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9rvTmmGT-qQ
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2020-06-21T20:11:01 < Thorn> TIL: if you need an ultra low power LSE your xtal should have C_L = 6-7 pF max, not 12.5
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2020-06-21T21:22:42 < Mangy_Dog> small update https://www.therpf.com/forums/threads/my-working-stargate-miniature.328766/page-3#post-5082367
2020-06-21T21:26:51 < jpa-> where will you travel first?
2020-06-21T21:28:55 -!- fenugrec [~fenugrec@97.107.220.18] has joined ##stm32
2020-06-21T21:31:29 < Mangy_Dog> far far far away from this planet
2020-06-21T21:31:31 < Mangy_Dog> and never come back
2020-06-21T21:33:01 < jpa-> send us a postcard if you meet any replicators heading this way
2020-06-21T21:33:15 < Mangy_Dog> :D
2020-06-21T21:33:21 < Mangy_Dog> re ly cate tors
2020-06-21T21:34:15 < jpa-> so why are you resin casting the prints? for strength?
2020-06-21T21:34:35 < Mangy_Dog> speed of making
2020-06-21T21:34:37 < Mangy_Dog> and was a cost thing
2020-06-21T21:34:43 < jpa-> ah yeah, you print one and copy it
2020-06-21T21:34:53 < Mangy_Dog> though i think in the end the costs of silicone and resin might have offset those savings :/
2020-06-21T21:35:08 < Mangy_Dog> but it was far quicker duplicating them
2020-06-21T21:35:18 < Mangy_Dog> the resin parts could be removed after 2 hours
2020-06-21T21:35:25 < Mangy_Dog> the print takes nearly 2 days
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2020-06-21T21:48:34 < Steffanx> What if star gate was all fake news, and your ring is the only one, Mangy_Dog?
2020-06-21T21:49:42 < Mangy_Dog> :o
2020-06-21T21:50:56 < Steffanx> lol
2020-06-21T21:52:18 < Mangy_Dog> would be pretty meta if i made my gate based on a show that itself never existed and was all just a dream in my head
2020-06-21T21:52:40 < Steffanx> :D
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2020-06-21T22:34:58 < Steffanx> Tell me about a movie to watch kakinull / kakimir
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2020-06-21T23:53:21 < kakimir> pump now
2020-06-21T23:53:30 < kakimir> Apocalypse Now! Steffanx
2020-06-21T23:53:53 < kakimir> actually shame on you if you haven't watched the classic yet
2020-06-21T23:55:03 < kakimir> bbl as kakinull<
2020-06-21T23:55:05 < kakimir> >
2020-06-21T23:57:11 < Cracki> MASH the movie (1970), weird and not nearly as good as the series but it contains the origin story of "hit lips" houlihan
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2020-06-22T01:16:59 < qyx> Thorn: hows your hot MP1?
2020-06-22T01:17:27 < qyx> could you measure power consumption in idle?
2020-06-22T01:55:05 < Mangy_Dog> thorn playin with an mp1?
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2020-06-22T04:15:34 < dongs> SY7208 looks nice
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2020-06-22T11:34:07 < srk> sick https://github.com/joeycastillo/The-Open-Book
2020-06-22T11:38:41 < mawk> it's python ?
2020-06-22T11:38:50 < srk> idk, idc :)
2020-06-22T11:39:00 < mawk> why not
2020-06-22T11:39:45 < srk> because if I build something like that there won't be any python, nor C, nor C++ :D
2020-06-22T11:39:59 < srk> looks like my kindle is running lua.. :D
2020-06-22T11:41:07 < PaulFertser> I think the problem with this project is not Python. The problem is old shitty display and choice of an MCU for ebook so it's never going to render PDF and possibly not even fb2 or mobi in a sane way.
2020-06-22T11:41:40 < srk> I kind-of like that it doesn't need Linux 
2020-06-22T11:41:54 < srk> maybe stm32f7 would be better
2020-06-22T11:41:56 < PaulFertser> The silk on the back is neat from an artistic pov.
2020-06-22T11:42:02 < srk> this
2020-06-22T11:42:08 < srk> + optionally linux
2020-06-22T11:47:26 < PaulFertser> I know what dongs will tell about the project. "Stupid arduino gay cowboy make:r shit"
2020-06-22T11:47:44 < mawk> cowboys don't deserve that
2020-06-22T11:48:49 < PaulFertser> idk, but the camerashot features https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Brokeback_Mountain_(short_story) apparently
2020-06-22T11:52:29 < mawk> a
2020-06-22T11:53:43 < srk> PaulFertser: :D I kind-of agree with that software-wise, hw looks neat tho
2020-06-22T11:55:37 < srk> arduino is still marketed as a go-to make someting quick solution for non-programmers.. but fails terribly when you outgrow its main loop
2020-06-22T11:59:19 < PaulFertser> hardship license, eh, so in the USA you can sometimes see legal 14 y.o. driving on public roads on their own, interesting.
2020-06-22T12:00:32 < strata> PaulFertser: i had a roommate who was able to get a driver license early like that
2020-06-22T12:01:35 < PaulFertser> In russia it was legal to ride 50cc from age 14 without any license.
2020-06-22T12:01:58 < PaulFertser> strata: was it literally "hardship" for your roomate?
2020-06-22T12:02:18 < strata> yea he had no family left
2020-06-22T12:05:01 < PaulFertser> Scary. I wonder if he drove responsible back then.
2020-06-22T12:05:13 < strata> hell no
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2020-06-22T15:23:33 < qyx> mounted an old acer display on the workplace https://bin.jvnv.net/file/r3wXI.jpg
2020-06-22T15:25:31 < benishor> very nice. both the display/idea and the workplace
2020-06-22T15:26:17 < Steffanx> Whoa such clean desk, qyx. Or is the crap hidden?
2020-06-22T15:27:37 < qyx> here you go https://bin.jvnv.net/file/ZFsGJ.jpg
2020-06-22T15:31:23 < benishor> gorram, I love it
2020-06-22T15:31:29 < benishor> work? home?
2020-06-22T15:32:02 < benishor> perhaps you could use some extra light on the shelves?
2020-06-22T15:33:22 < qyx> yeah I'll probably mount some LED strips in ALU profiles
2020-06-22T15:34:20 < benishor> is that at your home or at the office?
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2020-06-22T15:44:51 < Cracki> wooden stairs, probably not a workplace
2020-06-22T15:44:56 < Cracki> *office
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2020-06-22T15:57:04 < Ultrasauce> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FuM8zK6J-iE today's musicspam
2020-06-22T15:57:04 < jadew``> I want to see a horror movie
2020-06-22T15:57:07 < jadew``> recommendations?
2020-06-22T16:00:45 < jadew``> there needs to be a website where I can enter keywords and it spits out movies
2020-06-22T16:01:11 < Cracki> you mean altavista
2020-06-22T16:01:18 < jadew``> is that still around?
2020-06-22T16:01:36 < Cracki> domain owned by yahoo I think
2020-06-22T16:02:00 < jadew``> it redirects to yahoo
2020-06-22T16:02:01 < Cracki> and yahoo is malware
2020-06-22T16:02:05 < jadew``> it is
2020-06-22T16:02:16 < Cracki> engadget is yahoo, lots of shit is yahoo
2020-06-22T16:02:20 < Cracki> I wonder who owns yahoo
2020-06-22T16:02:31 < Cracki> I'm betting some shady download valley people
2020-06-22T16:03:03 < jadew``> don't know, but they lost lots of money
2020-06-22T16:03:31 < jadew``> they've made bad moves after bad moves
2020-06-22T16:03:50 < jadew``> they pretty much invented blogging
2020-06-22T16:03:50 < Cracki> "verizon media", merged AOL and yahoo into "oath inc"
2020-06-22T16:03:57 < Cracki> all shell companies
2020-06-22T16:03:57 < jadew``> and managed to fuck it up
2020-06-22T16:04:10 < Cracki> yahoo bought tumblr and ruined it
2020-06-22T16:04:29 < jadew``> they had the best chat app and fucked it up
2020-06-22T16:05:17 < jadew``> a bunch of idiots who were just lucky to be at the right place at the right time
2020-06-22T16:05:26 < Cracki> it's the circle of life. "Hard times create strong men. Strong men create good times. Good times create weak men. And, weak men create hard times."
2020-06-22T16:05:27 < jadew``> and got lucky hiring talented programmers early on
2020-06-22T16:05:29 < Cracki> works for companies too
2020-06-22T16:05:46 < Cracki> one type builds success, the other buys it up and ruins it
2020-06-22T16:06:07 < Cracki> evil is real
2020-06-22T16:06:28 < Cracki> I think the founders of yahoo were out of the picture a while ago
2020-06-22T16:08:05 -!- jadew`` is now known as jadew
2020-06-22T16:08:26 < Cracki> "why does verizon..." and google completes "suck"
2020-06-22T16:08:45 < jadew> heh
2020-06-22T16:10:13 < Cracki> those mugs https://www.verizon.com/about/investors/board-directors
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2020-06-22T17:40:29 < jadew> man... latex sucks
2020-06-22T17:41:07 < jadew> it's making my notes unreadable
2020-06-22T17:41:33 < jadew> I don't understand why people don't go for a math parser that just outputs shit nicely
2020-06-22T17:41:48 < jadew> for example, 1/(a + b) could be properly shown as a fraction
2020-06-22T17:42:02 < jadew> and then you can read the source code easily and it makes sense
2020-06-22T17:42:12 < jadew> instead you have to go \frac 1 {a + b}
2020-06-22T17:43:04 < jadew> well, thanks for making my source code unreadable
2020-06-22T17:43:16 < jadew> like / wasn't good enough
2020-06-22T17:43:20 < jadew> or ()
2020-06-22T17:43:36 < effractur> you can still use / 
2020-06-22T17:43:43 < effractur> it will just not apear on top of each other
2020-06-22T17:43:45 < jadew> yeah, but doesn't get displayed nicely
2020-06-22T17:43:47 < jadew> yeah...
2020-06-22T17:46:30 < jadew> food time
2020-06-22T17:46:33 < jadew> ttyl
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2020-06-22T18:28:49 < Cracki> jadew, latex is assembly language
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2020-06-22T18:40:39 < effractur> Cracki: na that is tex
2020-06-22T18:40:45 < effractur> Cracki: latex is a layer ontop of latex
2020-06-22T18:41:13 < effractur> and even tex is quite high level you can also write directly capcodes
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2020-06-22T19:25:36 < Cracki> tex : latex = assembly : macro assembly
2020-06-22T19:25:51 < Cracki> you can't write math equations in a natural style, can you
2020-06-22T19:27:21 < effractur> natural style?
2020-06-22T19:27:28 < Cracki> wat he said
2020-06-22T19:27:34 < effractur> well most of it you can
2020-06-22T19:27:55 < Laurenceb> I wish it was easier to write turing complete macros 
2020-06-22T19:28:00 < Cracki> same
2020-06-22T19:28:03 < Cracki> it's awful
2020-06-22T19:28:33 < Laurenceb> back when I was looking at arm sdr gps I wanted to have a macro that created the asm
2020-06-22T19:28:45 < Laurenceb> but it had to be an external script, boo
2020-06-22T19:29:03  * Laurenceb was too lazy to make any progress with the idea anyway
2020-06-22T19:29:05 < Cracki> reasons people use latex: (1) you "compile" it, fucking script kiddies love to compile things on their green-on-black CRTs (2) the output is "erotic", makes them basement dwellers soil their panties
2020-06-22T19:29:12 < qyx> Laurenceb: I was about to ask
2020-06-22T19:29:16 < qyx> now we have H7
2020-06-22T19:29:25 < Laurenceb> yeah its prob trivially easy now
2020-06-22T19:29:34 < Laurenceb> it looked just feasible on F4
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2020-06-22T19:29:54 < Laurenceb> using a script generated asm routine hardcoded for each prn
2020-06-22T19:30:10 < qyx> but gps only, right?
2020-06-22T19:30:17 < Laurenceb> yeah
2020-06-22T19:30:18 < Cracki> effractur, the point is, it doesn't understand "a/b" to be \frac{a}{b} for math environments
2020-06-22T19:30:25 < Laurenceb> and something like 8 channels
2020-06-22T19:30:37 < Laurenceb> 1 sample / nibble turned out to be fastest iirc
2020-06-22T19:30:49 < Laurenceb> somewhat counter-intuitive perhaps
2020-06-22T19:31:12 < Laurenceb> but then you can do a lot of simd with 32 bit ops
2020-06-22T19:31:33 < Laurenceb> 4 complex samples per op
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2020-06-22T20:19:46 < PaulFertser> Cracki: what's the best alternative to LaTeX in your opinion?
2020-06-22T20:19:57 < Cracki> bitching about it.
2020-06-22T20:20:22 < Cracki> no clue really. markdown. markdown with inline latex. straight up msword.
2020-06-22T20:20:31 < Cracki> hen scratchings on paper.
2020-06-22T20:21:01 < effractur> mathml is an option
2020-06-22T20:21:04 < effractur> but even more verbose
2020-06-22T20:21:11 < Cracki> so not an option
2020-06-22T20:21:26 < Cracki> you realize this debate is about usability, right?
2020-06-22T20:21:48 < effractur> yes, eqn is an option
2020-06-22T20:21:52 < effractur> if you want usability
2020-06-22T20:22:21 < karlp> jade wanted both legible in the source and legible in the output
2020-06-22T20:22:44 < jadew> Cracki, that's what I'm using, markdown with inline latex
2020-06-22T20:22:57 < effractur> well or markdown with eqn if you don't like the latex syntax
2020-06-22T20:22:58 < jadew> but most of the time I'm reading the source and don't bother rendering it
2020-06-22T20:23:24 < jadew> I'll look into eqn
2020-06-22T20:24:06 < Cracki> google isn't giving useful results for "markdown eqn"
2020-06-22T20:24:18 < jadew> yeah, I can't find anything yet
2020-06-22T20:24:24 < effractur> `man eqn`
2020-06-22T20:24:25 < Cracki> it talks about roff. I wasn't gonna write manpages.
2020-06-22T20:25:07 < Cracki> >One obvious downside of eqn (or groff in general) is that most commands have to appear on a line by themselves, which is very disruptive when writing https://tex.stackexchange.com/questions/527864/latex-vs-groff-for-mathematics-formatting
2020-06-22T20:25:09 < Cracki> USABILITY
2020-06-22T20:25:25 < effractur> eqn is quite readable
2020-06-22T20:25:36 < Cracki> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eqn_(software)
2020-06-22T20:25:37 < Cracki> hm ok
2020-06-22T20:25:56 < effractur> there is probaly just not a lot of tooling for inline eqn in markdown but it sould be easy to intergrate
2020-06-22T20:26:37 < jadew> a sup 2 for a²
2020-06-22T20:26:41 < jadew> that's worse
2020-06-22T20:26:43 < Cracki> "over"
2020-06-22T20:26:56 < Cracki> math should be spoken in german, not english.
2020-06-22T20:27:59 < jadew> I could easily make something custom, but then I'd have another custom thing to maintain
2020-06-22T20:28:10 < Cracki> the world needs more ubiquitous parsing
2020-06-22T20:28:24 < jadew> all you have to do is parse regular math and reserve a few keywords
2020-06-22T20:28:27 < jadew> pi
2020-06-22T20:28:29 < jadew> sqrt
2020-06-22T20:28:35 < jadew> log
2020-06-22T20:28:42 < jadew> in fact
2020-06-22T20:28:45 < jadew> you don't
2020-06-22T20:28:46 < Steffanx> First make that picologger jadew 
2020-06-22T20:28:47 < jadew> just sqrt
2020-06-22T20:29:05 < jadew> Steffanx, haha, I don't need the picologger, and I've done crazier stuff than this :P
2020-06-22T20:29:19 < Steffanx> Ask your wife for the sqrt.
2020-06-22T20:29:28 < jadew> I made a PHP parser once as part of a documentation generator I wrote
2020-06-22T20:29:53 < mawk> dont don't php jadew 
2020-06-22T20:29:55 < mawk> save your brain cells
2020-06-22T20:30:05 < mawk> do you really want a language in which '0' is implcitely casted to false ???
2020-06-22T20:30:07 < Steffanx> He already lost em
2020-06-22T20:30:09 < jadew> mawk, I did quite a lot of PHP, but yeah, I hate it
2020-06-22T20:30:23 < jadew> in fact, I wrote a full language 10-12 years ago because of that
2020-06-22T20:33:08 < jadew> I guess that if you could easily extend a markdown viewer, this wouldn't be such a bad idea
2020-06-22T20:33:42 < Cracki> markdown wysiwyg
2020-06-22T20:34:02 < jadew> well, no, I just want to write normal math and get nicely formatted math out
2020-06-22T20:34:22 < jadew> I really don't get it why people felt the need to invent another language to express the same shit
2020-06-22T20:34:24 < Cracki> "normal" being the common syntax used in programming languages, eh
2020-06-22T20:34:31 < jadew> yeah
2020-06-22T20:34:35 < Cracki> latex was invented before chalk
2020-06-22T20:34:54 < Cracki> even before people wrote prose to express math, they wrote backslashes and curlies
2020-06-22T20:35:20 < Cracki> lots of "huge mistakes" in computing are "historic"
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2020-06-22T20:37:14 < jadew> you know, this wouldn't take more than a day
2020-06-22T20:37:25 < jadew> there are already plugins for my editor that do markdown + latex
2020-06-22T20:37:37 < jadew> you can take one of those and parse math into latex and let that plugin deal with the rest
2020-06-22T20:41:18 < mawk> latex is fine
2020-06-22T20:41:33 < mawk> low ergonomy for simple things is traded off for high ergonomy for complex things
2020-06-22T20:41:40 < mawk> and maths is often complex
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2020-06-22T20:42:30 < jadew> there's nothing you can express better in latex than with a programming style syntax
2020-06-22T20:42:52 < jadew> for one, it has the useless backslash
2020-06-22T20:43:30 < mawk> why would you use programming style
2020-06-22T20:43:33 < mawk> it's about styling
2020-06-22T20:43:37 < jadew> then there's the need for {} to group things together, when () is sufficient
2020-06-22T20:43:44 < mawk> () is widely used in maths
2020-06-22T20:43:49 < jadew> exactly
2020-06-22T20:43:57 < mawk> so it's not a good idea to use ()
2020-06-22T20:44:01 < mawk> {} is fine
2020-06-22T20:44:05 < jadew> but if you do \frac 1 (a + b), it derps
2020-06-22T20:44:07 < jadew> it needs {}
2020-06-22T20:44:12 < mawk> of course
2020-06-22T20:44:18 < jadew> why would it not be a good idea?
2020-06-22T20:44:21 < jadew> it's a group
2020-06-22T20:44:30 < mawk> () is for when you want to print ()
2020-06-22T20:44:44 < mawk> letting latex decide by itself how to style defeats the purpose of having a language to style your equations
2020-06-22T20:45:10 < mawk> (a+b) this is not a command so () will be printed, but \sqrt(a+b) is a command so () won't be printed ?
2020-06-22T20:45:16 < mawk> that's a bit ambiguous
2020-06-22T20:45:34 < jadew> true, but styling everything in the default way in which math is styled also defeats the purpose of having a styling language
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2020-06-22T20:45:48 < mawk> that's why latex doesn't make decisions
2020-06-22T20:45:50 < jadew> so why not just parse math and style it?
2020-06-22T20:45:53 < mawk> it only prints what you say
2020-06-22T20:46:15 < jadew> I don't want to mix 1/x with 1 over x
2020-06-22T20:46:31 < mawk> so you want even less automatic styling
2020-06-22T20:46:34 < jadew> if I go to the trouble of saying "this is a math formula, style it", it means I want a freaking math formula
2020-06-22T20:46:45 < mawk> if you want 1/x write 1/x, if you want \frac{1}{x} write it like that
2020-06-22T20:46:49 < mawk> both are used
2020-06-22T20:46:58 < mawk> if it's in an exponent, I will use the inline version for instance
2020-06-22T20:47:00 < mawk> e^{1/x}
2020-06-22T20:47:06 < mawk> but at the line level, I'll use \frac or \dfrac
2020-06-22T20:47:26 < Cracki> an inline \frac would be appreciated
2020-06-22T20:47:32 < Cracki> does an \over exist?
2020-06-22T20:47:34 < mawk> what do you mean ?
2020-06-22T20:47:47 < mawk> if you use \frac{}{} in a inline context, it will be a small fraction
2020-06-22T20:47:48 < Cracki> inline operator
2020-06-22T20:47:48 < jadew> Cracki, in latex you just write it
2020-06-22T20:47:52 < mawk> and you can use \dfrac to make it big
2020-06-22T20:47:56 < jadew> a/b and it does nothing to it
2020-06-22T20:48:01 < Cracki> jadew, you misunderstand
2020-06-22T20:48:06 < Cracki> a/b renders as "a/b"
2020-06-22T20:48:11 < jadew> yeah
2020-06-22T20:48:17 < Cracki> \frac{a}{b} is two lines with a line between them
2020-06-22T20:48:24 < mawk> yes
2020-06-22T20:48:25 < jadew> exactly
2020-06-22T20:48:27 < Cracki> and *I* hate the prefix fuckery
2020-06-22T20:48:36 < mawk> it's a function with two arguments
2020-06-22T20:48:37 < jadew> and I would like a/b to be the one with the two lines
2020-06-22T20:48:38 < mawk> very programmatic !
2020-06-22T20:48:47 < Cracki> and some redditor on shitoverflow says \over is a "primitive" command
2020-06-22T20:48:52 < mawk> then how would you write a/b jadew 
2020-06-22T20:48:59 < jadew> mawk, I wouldn't
2020-06-22T20:49:03 < mawk> why
2020-06-22T20:49:15 < mawk> you're making style choices in place of the end user
2020-06-22T20:49:16 < jadew> if I want a fucking math formula I'm not going to write like I only have one line to write on
2020-06-22T20:49:22 < mawk> \frac takes too much vertical space sometimes
2020-06-22T20:49:36 < mawk> e^{ê^{\frac{1}{x}}} the frac is either too big or too small
2020-06-22T20:49:39 < mawk> but 1/x is fine
2020-06-22T20:49:47 < jadew> so let the thing decide
2020-06-22T20:49:59 < mawk> I
2020-06-22T20:50:02 < Cracki> *g*
2020-06-22T20:50:05 < jadew> I don't want to be stuck into styling hell just for that
2020-06-22T20:50:08 < mawk> I'm not sure that's the right spirit for designing such a system
2020-06-22T20:50:10 < Cracki> latex is about "automagic beautiful typesetting"
2020-06-22T20:50:18 < mawk> when writing documents yes
2020-06-22T20:50:19 < jadew> to have a say on weather I want a/x or a over x when it's an exponent
2020-06-22T20:50:23 < mawk> but with maths it's different
2020-06-22T20:50:25 < Cracki> yet people want their formulas to look a specific way
2020-06-22T20:50:44 < mawk> well having a pixel difference can make your formula mean something else
2020-06-22T20:50:47 < mawk> with a slight exaggeration
2020-06-22T20:50:53 < mawk> you want what you devised to be printed on the screen
2020-06-22T20:51:09 < Cracki> separate style from meaning
2020-06-22T20:51:16 < mawk> it's not always possible
2020-06-22T20:51:19 < Cracki> you should write the meaning, and the style should never lie
2020-06-22T20:51:26 < jadew> exactly
2020-06-22T20:51:34 < mawk> you need to style yourself
2020-06-22T20:51:42 < jadew> no you don't
2020-06-22T20:51:45 < Cracki> the whole point of latex is that the green-on-black CRT crowd fucking hates microsoft word
2020-06-22T20:52:01 < Cracki> and they want to genocide all the microsoft users
2020-06-22T20:52:07 < mawk> to write a tensor you need to place the exponent and subscript in exactly the right place
2020-06-22T20:52:13 < mawk> otherwise it means a totally different thing
2020-06-22T20:52:18 < mawk> you need to place it perfectly
2020-06-22T20:52:22 < jadew> if I give a formula to 20 people and tell them to write it in the default math way, they will all write the same shit on a piece of paper
2020-06-22T20:52:32 < Cracki> let the software handle "perfect"
2020-06-22T20:52:38 < mawk> there is not really universal maths writing
2020-06-22T20:52:54 < Cracki> come up with syntax that makes it do the right thing
2020-06-22T20:53:02 < Cracki> syntax/keyword
2020-06-22T20:53:03 < mawk> and I can make up my own syntax
2020-06-22T20:53:11 < Cracki> and you should
2020-06-22T20:53:28 < Cracki> rather than always controlling precise placement, control it once, in an abstraction
2020-06-22T20:53:45 < mawk> nothing stops you from doing that in latex
2020-06-22T20:54:02 < mawk> that's what I did in my latex paste
2020-06-22T20:54:06 < mawk> https://maths.serveur.io/
2020-06-22T20:54:14 < mawk> I did a bunch of macros for very specific styling
2020-06-22T20:54:16 < Cracki> on this spectrum, the path leading to "precise position" leads through using inkscape
2020-06-22T20:54:19 < mawk> which are specific to what I was doing
2020-06-22T20:56:20 < jadew> to me \frac is no different than having a function called div() in a math language
2020-06-22T20:57:01 < jadew> if anything you should have ifrac for "a/b"
2020-06-22T20:57:05 < jadew> not the other way around
2020-06-22T21:02:43 < jadew> well, I gave up on it entirely
2020-06-22T21:02:54 < jadew> it's clutter
2020-06-22T21:02:59 < mawk> having divisions in exponent is very common
2020-06-22T21:03:08 < mawk> https://maths.serveur.io/o2-Bz0RV
2020-06-22T21:03:13 < mawk> this is why styling matters
2020-06-22T21:03:19 < jadew> again, let the formatter decide what's best
2020-06-22T21:03:35 < mawk> the formatter would have to be an omniscient god
2020-06-22T21:03:38 < mawk> that knows what the writer wants
2020-06-22T21:03:45 < mawk> or, alternatively, let the writer specify what it wants
2020-06-22T21:03:57 < mawk> Cracki: ^ see the paste
2020-06-22T21:04:02 < jadew> dude, if you write math that cannot be understood, it's bad math
2020-06-22T21:04:04 < mawk> if you remove the spaces, it's nonsense
2020-06-22T21:04:21 < mawk> understood by what
2020-06-22T21:04:23 < mawk> by a computer ?
2020-06-22T21:04:28 < jadew> by anyone
2020-06-22T21:04:30 < jadew> including a computer
2020-06-22T21:04:32 < mawk> lol
2020-06-22T21:04:38 < mawk> computers are not the level of human
2020-06-22T21:05:02 < jadew> let me ask you this, how would you write that in matlab?
2020-06-22T21:05:21 < mawk> something quite ugly probably
2020-06-22T21:05:37 < jadew> I doubt it's uglier or less meaningful than latex
2020-06-22T21:05:54 < mawk> when it's something common sure
2020-06-22T21:06:06 < mawk> it could be like tensor(contra(i), cov(j), contra(k))
2020-06-22T21:06:09 < mawk> or whatever
2020-06-22T21:06:14 < mawk> but that's because tensors are well-known objects
2020-06-22T21:06:21 < mawk> for something I made up, it won't exist
2020-06-22T21:07:35 < mawk> also styling is precisely what can make maths unreadable
2020-06-22T21:07:42 < Cracki> are those just three indices in that paste
2020-06-22T21:07:42 < mawk> what if I want to color parts of my equation for things to stand out
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2020-06-22T21:07:45 < mawk> something a computer will never be able to do
2020-06-22T21:07:53 < mawk> in a specific order Cracki 
2020-06-22T21:07:56 < Cracki> if so, what's the purpose of writing them like so, instead of a 3-tuple subscripted
2020-06-22T21:08:01 < mawk> i must stand out as the first, j as the second, k as the last
2020-06-22T21:08:06 < mawk> i must be up, j down, k up
2020-06-22T21:08:10 < mawk> that's the convention
2020-06-22T21:08:36 < mawk> it's not just T^{ik}_j
2020-06-22T21:08:39 < mawk> the spacing matters
2020-06-22T21:08:40 < Cracki> wtf is this https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Raising_and_lowering_indices
2020-06-22T21:08:49 < mawk> lol
2020-06-22T21:08:51 < Cracki> of course I'm not asking about spacing
2020-06-22T21:08:53 < mawk> welcome to general relativity
2020-06-22T21:08:55 < Cracki> I'm asking if the positions matter
2020-06-22T21:09:01 < mawk> well the relative position yes
2020-06-22T21:09:04 < mawk> it's i, j, k
2020-06-22T21:09:09 < Cracki> please tell me what mroe meaning this conveys than (i, j, k)
2020-06-22T21:09:21 < Cracki> are math people averse to writing commas?
2020-06-22T21:09:29 < mawk> how do you know i is up, j is down, k is up in your tuple
2020-06-22T21:09:36 < jadew> from the order
2020-06-22T21:09:37 < Cracki> what is the meaning of up and down then
2020-06-22T21:09:44 < Cracki> you say it has meaning, but what is the meaning
2020-06-22T21:09:48 < mawk> it's like the rown and the column of a matrix
2020-06-22T21:09:48 < zyp> sup?
2020-06-22T21:09:48 < jadew> you just said there is a convention
2020-06-22T21:09:51 < mawk> but generalized to more dimensions
2020-06-22T21:09:58 < zyp> what math bullshit are you guys going on about tonight?
2020-06-22T21:10:01 < Cracki> you seem to miss my question
2020-06-22T21:10:09 < mawk> the convention is not "up", "down", "up" jadew , it can be anything
2020-06-22T21:10:12 < Cracki> how is (i,j,k) not enough to describe the indices
2020-06-22T21:10:20 < mawk> because it's not always up, down, up
2020-06-22T21:10:22 < Cracki> i row, j column, k whatever third dimension
2020-06-22T21:10:22 < mawk> it's anything
2020-06-22T21:10:32 < Cracki> *so what is up and down*
2020-06-22T21:10:48 < jadew> zyp, we are discussing weather latex has a purpose
2020-06-22T21:10:59 < zyp> heh
2020-06-22T21:11:06 < Cracki> if the convention can be anything, it's not a convention anymore
2020-06-22T21:11:21 < Cracki> it's an ad hoc notation that needs to be defined
2020-06-22T21:11:21 < jadew> or it's just additional garbage to deal with, when one could just parse math expressions like in programming and just format them automatically
2020-06-22T21:11:28 < Cracki> ^
2020-06-22T21:11:33 < Cracki> but then you get \frac{a}{b}
2020-06-22T21:11:53 < Cracki> >_>
2020-06-22T21:11:58 < mawk> here's another one https://maths.serveur.io/dAcBmXcj
2020-06-22T21:12:03 < mawk> it is defined
2020-06-22T21:12:15 < mawk> it's just that both the order and the up/down position of each index matters
2020-06-22T21:12:21 < mawk> something that (i, j, k) doesn't convey
2020-06-22T21:12:29 < mawk> (up(i), down(j), up(k)) would work
2020-06-22T21:12:52 < zyp> jadew, what would you use if not latex? (and for what?)
2020-06-22T21:12:53 < Cracki> are you saying the explanation of the meaning of the *positions* of those indices, (rather than their *order*) is too much to explain briefly?
2020-06-22T21:13:17 < jadew> zyp, regular programming syntax like in C or matlab/octave
2020-06-22T21:13:28 < jadew> much more readable in the source code
2020-06-22T21:13:33 < mawk> it's just abstract index into a n-dimensional array Cracki 
2020-06-22T21:13:40 < Cracki> no
2020-06-22T21:13:42 < jadew> and it can obviously be converted to proper math notation
2020-06-22T21:13:46 < Cracki> you keep saying it's more than order
2020-06-22T21:13:51 < mawk> and up vs down says something about some linear algebra stuff
2020-06-22T21:13:58 < mawk> like for a matrix M_ij
2020-06-22T21:14:01 < zyp> jadew, sure, why not
2020-06-22T21:14:02 < Cracki> what is it precisely more than a tuple
2020-06-22T21:14:14 < Cracki> and what does it say about "some linear algebra stuff"?
2020-06-22T21:14:16 < jadew> zyp, that's exactly my position
2020-06-22T21:14:19 < Cracki> I keep trying to ask for that
2020-06-22T21:14:32 < Cracki> my questions must be impenetrable
2020-06-22T21:14:34 < mawk> lol
2020-06-22T21:14:38 < zyp> jadew, but what tool would you use to make a pdf document from such a source?
2020-06-22T21:14:38 < mawk> I'd have to remember it to answer that
2020-06-22T21:14:44 < Cracki> ah, that's an answer
2020-06-22T21:14:52 < mawk> it's just something to do with how you can view sensors as forms on some space
2020-06-22T21:14:54 < jadew> zyp, well, in this case I just wanted to embed math in markdown
2020-06-22T21:15:03 < mawk> up means it takes a vector, down means it takes a 1-form
2020-06-22T21:15:10 < mawk> view tensors*
2020-06-22T21:15:15 < jadew> and my only options seem to be embedded latex, which completely screws up the readability of the source
2020-06-22T21:15:46 < Cracki> https://mathworld.wolfram.com/IndexGymnastics.html
2020-06-22T21:15:55 < Cracki> at least they know how ridiculous this is
2020-06-22T21:17:11 < mawk> Cracki: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Einstein_notation
2020-06-22T21:17:13 < zyp> hmm
2020-06-22T21:17:20 < mawk> it's useful in general relativity
2020-06-22T21:17:50 < Cracki> ic
2020-06-22T21:18:03 < zyp> jadew, according to a quick google, it seems «the» math markdown plugin is based on mathjax, which apparently can take latex, mathml or asciimath as input
2020-06-22T21:18:12 < zyp> asciimath at a glance looks like what you want
2020-06-22T21:18:17 < zyp> ref. http://asciimath.org/
2020-06-22T21:18:37 < Cracki> >The upper index position in xi is because, typically, an index occurs once in an upper (superscript) and once in a lower (subscript) position in a term
2020-06-22T21:18:41 < Cracki> meth.
2020-06-22T21:18:45 < jadew> zyp, what math markdown plugin? I'm using the intergated viewer in vs code, but I can switch
2020-06-22T21:19:00 < jadew> wow, that looks great
2020-06-22T21:19:03 < jadew> I want that!
2020-06-22T21:19:09 < jadew> mawk, ^ see that
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2020-06-22T21:19:21 < mawk> yes
2020-06-22T21:19:24 < mawk> I tried it some time ago
2020-06-22T21:19:32 < mawk> but I forgot it
2020-06-22T21:20:50 < mawk> Cracki: tensor (and by extension this notation) is a generalization of matrices
2020-06-22T21:20:56 < mawk> and in matrices, columns are vectors
2020-06-22T21:21:01 < mawk> and rows can be thought as linear forms
2020-06-22T21:21:03 < jadew> hmm, looks like this plugin I'm using also has support for mathjax
2020-06-22T21:21:04 < Cracki> and that is understood
2020-06-22T21:21:05 < Cracki> but https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Covariance_and_contravariance_of_vectors
2020-06-22T21:21:11 < mawk> yes that's what it's about
2020-06-22T21:21:14 < mawk> covariance and contravariance
2020-06-22T21:21:16 < jadew> but I have to find out how to enable ASCIIMath
2020-06-22T21:21:20 < mawk> it's about how these indices transform under base change
2020-06-22T21:21:21 < Cracki> and that is not understood
2020-06-22T21:21:50 < Cracki> I am negatively motivated to deal with this stuff honestly
2020-06-22T21:22:03 < mawk> lol
2020-06-22T21:22:09 < mawk> well unless you're about to do general relativity you're safe
2020-06-22T21:22:13 < mawk> or geodesy maybe
2020-06-22T21:22:32 < Cracki> that word looks harmless. it's probably a monster.
2020-06-22T21:23:17 < Cracki> ah, now I see what contravariant means
2020-06-22T21:25:09 < mawk> yeah they have a nice explanation there
2020-06-22T21:25:35 < mawk> you must remember from your LA class that to get a vector from base A to base B, you should multiply it with the inverse of the passing matrix from A to B
2020-06-22T21:26:01 < mawk> which is the vectors of base B expressed in the base A
2020-06-22T21:26:27 < Cracki> as in programming so it must be in math, most stuff is written by people who can't explain. in contast to code or explanations of code, math looks pretty on top
2020-06-22T21:26:32 < mawk> but to transform a linear form, you multiply by the passing matrix from A to B
2020-06-22T21:26:36 < mawk> you can prove either fact easily
2020-06-22T21:26:48 < mawk> yeah
2020-06-22T21:27:05 < mawk> but I guess so many maths pedants are on the wikipedia changelist waiting to kill someone saying something wrong
2020-06-22T21:27:09 < Cracki> they flagellated us with lots of base change shit but never with anything useful
2020-06-22T21:27:21 < mawk> if you try to sneak in a "3*0 = 2*0 => 3 = 2" on some page they'll hunt you
2020-06-22T21:27:50 < Cracki> I don't think we ever applied a matrix to a basis
2020-06-22T21:28:21 < Cracki> it's just me blocking the trauma I'm sure
2020-06-22T21:28:34 < mawk> I mean do passing matrix * vector
2020-06-22T21:28:39 < Cracki> it was awful. they should all be jailed for their cruelty.
2020-06-22T21:28:43 < mawk> P_{AB} * vector from B = the same vector in base A
2020-06-22T21:28:53 < mawk> and P_{BA} = P_{AB}^{-1}
2020-06-22T21:29:02 < mawk> it helps when the basis are orthonormal, for the computation
2020-06-22T21:29:16 < mawk> then the matrix is orthonormal and P^{-1} = P^T
2020-06-22T21:31:57 < Cracki> I'm having more fun playing with wuflu numbers. if you're under 20 in this nation, your chance of dying from the coof are 1 in 5 million.
2020-06-22T21:32:17 < Cracki> (0.06% incidence, 0.02% death)
2020-06-22T21:32:25 < jadew> how about if you are 35?
2020-06-22T21:32:41 < Cracki> ages 20-50: 1 in 300k
2020-06-22T21:32:48 < jadew> that's pretty good
2020-06-22T21:33:05 < Cracki> 0.27% incidence, 0.12% fatal
2020-06-22T21:33:36 < Cracki> eh
2020-06-22T21:33:44 < Cracki> any recommendations for solder paste and flux from aliex?
2020-06-22T21:34:15 < Cracki> I'll pick whatever looks like https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iKDAmY9Rdag&feature=youtu.be&t=587
2020-06-22T21:34:24 < Cracki> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iKDAmY9Rdag (minus the timestamp)
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2020-06-22T21:45:53 < Cracki> if you're 90+, you have a 1:500 chance of dying of the bat soup
2020-06-22T21:46:02 < Cracki> 70+ 1 in 2k
2020-06-22T21:46:26 < Cracki> that means most old people don't know anyone who died
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2020-06-22T23:00:29 < jadew> managed to get asciimath to work :D
2020-06-22T23:00:33 < jadew> zyp, thanks
2020-06-22T23:00:39 < zyp> nice
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2020-06-23T00:50:29 < karlp> if we're still doing heat exchanger greenhouses, (bit late I know) latest ads in iceland: https://www.isror.is/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=136
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2020-06-23T01:30:24 < kakimate> Steffanx: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H9C0jYan8i8 musics
2020-06-23T01:30:46 < kakimate> 90's musics made in 2020
2020-06-23T01:34:01 < Cracki> press >
2020-06-23T01:35:44 < kakimate> press buttons?
2020-06-23T01:36:35 < Cracki> try it, shift+. on murican kb
2020-06-23T01:39:36 < Cracki> hmmm https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Lzixi-FjxgM
2020-06-23T01:40:04 < Cracki> https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCeuz6JUrstRVGL7RoFONp0w
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2020-06-23T01:50:37 < mawk> Cracki: if J = [[0, 1], [-1, 0]], compute J^J
2020-06-23T01:50:42 < mawk> much easy
2020-06-23T01:50:44 < mawk> very cool
2020-06-23T01:50:55 < Cracki> what's the definition of anything ^ matrix
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2020-06-23T01:51:29 < mawk> like for real numbers
2020-06-23T01:51:40 < Cracki> orly
2020-06-23T01:51:43 < mawk> a^b = exp(b·ln(a))
2020-06-23T01:51:57 < Cracki> ok now I need exp and ln for matrices. elementwise or not?
2020-06-23T01:52:08 < mawk> not elementwise
2020-06-23T01:52:14 < mawk> it's elemntwise if the matrix is diagonal
2020-06-23T01:52:24 < mawk> ^ hint hint
2020-06-23T01:52:27 < Cracki> this one isn't
2020-06-23T01:52:39 < mawk> but otherwise well exp(A) = 1 + A + A^2/2 + A^3/3! + A^4/4! + ...
2020-06-23T01:52:45 < Cracki> eh
2020-06-23T01:52:59 < mawk> and ln(I+A) = A - A^2/2 + A^3/3 - A^4/4 + ...
2020-06-23T01:53:30 < mawk> so if you diagonalize then it's elementwise yes
2020-06-23T01:53:35 < Cracki> oh would you look at the time! :>
2020-06-23T01:53:43 < mawk> :(
2020-06-23T01:53:47 < Cracki> am I allowed to transform this matrix even
2020-06-23T01:53:51 < mawk> yeah
2020-06-23T01:53:56 < Cracki> why tho
2020-06-23T01:53:59 < mawk> well exp(PAP^(-1)) = P exp(A) P^(-1)
2020-06-23T01:54:03 < Cracki> ic
2020-06-23T01:54:11 < Cracki> (i don't but... yanno)
2020-06-23T01:54:22 < mawk> because (PAP^(-1))^n = PAP^(-1)PAP^(-1)P...PAP^(-1)
2020-06-23T01:54:29 < mawk> you have a bunch  of P·P^(-1)
2020-06-23T01:54:33 < mawk> which vanish
2020-06-23T01:54:42 < mawk> so in total it's P A^n P^(-1)
2020-06-23T01:54:56 < Cracki> wait, for diagonal P and P^-1
2020-06-23T01:55:01 < Cracki> or...?
2020-06-23T01:55:04 < mawk> no, why ?
2020-06-23T01:55:08 < Cracki> hold on
2020-06-23T01:55:12 < mawk> (AB)^3 = ABABAB
2020-06-23T01:55:17 < Cracki> that PAP^-1 stuff, slow down
2020-06-23T01:55:48 < Cracki> that needs to be explained: exp(PAP^(-1)) = P exp(A) P^(-1)
2020-06-23T01:55:52 < Cracki> for what P does this hold
2020-06-23T01:56:06 < mawk> any P that is invertible
2020-06-23T01:56:16 < mawk> because (PAP^(-1))^n = P A^n P^(-1)
2020-06-23T01:56:24 < mawk> it works because P^(-1) is the inverse of P
2020-06-23T01:57:11 < Cracki> why not exp(PAP^(-1)) = exp(P) exp(A) exp(P^(-1))
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2020-06-23T01:58:19 < mawk> let me show you
2020-06-23T01:59:10 < zyp> this reminds me of the explanation behind r e^aiπ = r(cos(a) + i sin(a)) or however that went
2020-06-23T01:59:29 < Cracki> just rearranging factors in a product of matrices... uh I'm not sure
2020-06-23T02:00:09 < Cracki> ah! ... P^-1 P ... collapse
2020-06-23T02:00:14 < Cracki> okeh
2020-06-23T02:00:26 < Cracki> still, you have exp(...) there, not ...^n
2020-06-23T02:01:56 < Cracki> you may argue that this applies to J^J, because that's a case of ...^n
2020-06-23T02:02:18 < mawk> Cracki: https://maths.serveur.io/029c-ktS
2020-06-23T02:02:23 < Cracki> except J is a matrix, so...
2020-06-23T02:02:47 < Cracki> ah! first line
2020-06-23T02:03:07 < mawk> the goal is to compute ln(J), then exp(J·ln(J))
2020-06-23T02:03:09 < mawk> yeah
2020-06-23T02:03:26 < Cracki> that's what I mean when I say loop unrollings confuse me
2020-06-23T02:03:54 < Cracki> they're helpful sure but at 1 am I'm slow to biject between unrolled and closed form
2020-06-23T02:04:16 < mawk> yeah I have to write things down too
2020-06-23T02:05:14 < Cracki> ok now that exp(PAP⁻¹) = P exp(A) P⁻¹...
2020-06-23T02:05:35 < Cracki> J^J = exp(J ln(J))
2020-06-23T02:05:38 < mawk> yeah
2020-06-23T02:05:42 < mawk> it's a bit the same for ln(J)
2020-06-23T02:05:46 < Cracki> baby mouse steps
2020-06-23T02:06:06 < mawk> we have ln(J) = (J-I) - (J-I)^2/2 + (J-I)^3/3 - ... + ...
2020-06-23T02:06:19 < mawk> so we call K = J-I, and we can diagonalize K too
2020-06-23T02:06:44 < Cracki> wat was the purpose of that PAP⁻¹ stuff again, it's a decomp but what properties
2020-06-23T02:07:10 < Cracki> I see it was used to collapse a product, which simplifies things
2020-06-23T02:07:16 < mawk> PAP^(-1) is a diagonal matrix
2020-06-23T02:07:26 < mawk> when the matrix A is nice enough
2020-06-23T02:07:43 < mawk> meaning all its roots are different
2020-06-23T02:07:49 < mawk> eigenvalues* not roots
2020-06-23T02:07:54 < Cracki> is the goal of this to make exp(A) be a simple case? you said exp(diagonal matrix) is elementwise exp
2020-06-23T02:08:00 < mawk> yes
2020-06-23T02:08:14 < Cracki> so PAP⁻¹ isn't diagonal, A is diagonal
2020-06-23T02:08:21 < Cracki> and PAP⁻¹ is J
2020-06-23T02:08:48 < mawk> ah
2020-06-23T02:08:49 < Cracki> ok so that specific J matrix one would transform into a PAP⁻¹ with A diagonal...
2020-06-23T02:08:52 < mawk> well it works both ways
2020-06-23T02:09:02 < mawk> then you do P⁻¹JP to have the diagonal
2020-06-23T02:09:33 < mawk> but yeah sorry I mixed things up
2020-06-23T02:09:36 < Cracki> ... yes, I think I see that
2020-06-23T02:09:44 < Cracki> *scroll*
2020-06-23T02:09:53 < mawk> lol
2020-06-23T02:10:04 < mawk> so ln(J) = -pi/2 J
2020-06-23T02:10:07 < mawk> when you do the computation
2020-06-23T02:10:08 < Cracki> [[0 1] [-1 0]]
2020-06-23T02:10:21 < mawk> which is a little tedious
2020-06-23T02:10:27 < Cracki> *scrap of paper*
2020-06-23T02:10:56 < mawk> then J·ln(J) = pi/2 I_2
2020-06-23T02:11:07 < mawk> so the exponential is immediate since that's (conveniently) diagonal
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2020-06-23T02:11:44 < mawk> I mixed up signs somewhere but whatever
2020-06-23T02:11:47 < mawk> the result looks the same
2020-06-23T02:11:52 < mawk> did you notice that J² = -I
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2020-06-23T02:12:12 < mawk> so actually J is the embedding of the complex i into 2×2 matrices
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2020-06-23T02:12:17 < mawk> and we computed i^i using matrices
2020-06-23T02:12:25 < mawk> that's mega cool
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2020-06-23T02:12:37 < Cracki> diagonal you say, is P=[1 -1],[0 1], A = [1 1],[-1 0] good enough? row 1 -= row 2
2020-06-23T02:12:50 < Cracki> hm no, that's triangle, not diagonal
2020-06-23T02:12:52 < Cracki> one more then
2020-06-23T02:13:09 < mawk> I didn't try with triangular
2020-06-23T02:13:27 < mawk> the diagonal version involves complex numbers
2020-06-23T02:13:33 < Cracki> I did _not_ notice that J^2 = -I. I don't see 2x2 matrix multiplication in my mind :D
2020-06-23T02:13:40 < mawk> oddly enough the final result has no complex numbers
2020-06-23T02:13:45 < mawk> lol
2020-06-23T02:13:49 < mawk> well I know because I read it
2020-06-23T02:13:58 < Cracki> I need a neuralink
2020-06-23T02:14:21 < mawk> thought-powered google search
2020-06-23T02:14:33 < Cracki> 5 millisecond starlink to wolfram alpha
2020-06-23T02:14:43 < Cracki> brb diagonalizing things
2020-06-23T02:15:59 < Cracki> ok, P=[0 -1][1 0] A=I
2020-06-23T02:16:07 < Cracki> unless I fucked up
2020-06-23T02:20:13 < Cracki> no it's right, fucked up the check
2020-06-23T02:22:22 < Cracki> meh, I don't remember how to do that decomp
2020-06-23T02:22:30 < Cracki> all I did was invert it :S
2020-06-23T02:23:00 < mawk> you need to find the characteristic polynomial
2020-06-23T02:23:07 < Cracki> sounds familiar
2020-06-23T02:23:16 < mawk> because the coefficients on the diagonal of the diagonalized matrix are special
2020-06-23T02:23:21 < mawk> they're the roots of that polynomial
2020-06-23T02:23:44 < mawk> probably WA can diagonalize
2020-06-23T02:23:46 < mawk> numpy too
2020-06-23T02:23:49 < mawk> let me try
2020-06-23T02:23:54 < Cracki> do people say det(lambda - J) or det(J - lambda), what's more customary. I know the result doesn't care
2020-06-23T02:24:07 < Cracki> they're all 0
2020-06-23T02:24:28 < Cracki> wait, that was det(A - I*lambda)
2020-06-23T02:25:06 < Cracki> so lambda² + 1 = 0
2020-06-23T02:25:38 < Cracki> WA says that's right
2020-06-23T02:25:50 < Cracki> ok great, wat now, complex eigenvalues or what
2020-06-23T02:25:51 < mawk> I use det(I·lambda-A) but yeah same thing
2020-06-23T02:25:58 < mawk> hmm
2020-06-23T02:26:06 < mawk> you don't have to diagonalize J
2020-06-23T02:26:13 < mawk> it's J-I
2020-06-23T02:26:21 < mawk> because yeah the log has some trickery
2020-06-23T02:26:27 < mawk> for reals, the taylor series is ln(1+x)
2020-06-23T02:26:29 < Cracki> ah, that hint way up there
2020-06-23T02:26:32 < qyx> how dare you omit spaces around operators
2020-06-23T02:26:37 < mawk> :(
2020-06-23T02:26:44 < Cracki>  ln(I+A) = A - A^2/2 + A^3/3 - A^4/4 + ...
2020-06-23T02:26:44 < mawk> ln(1+x) = x - x²/2 + ...
2020-06-23T02:26:46 < mawk> yeah
2020-06-23T02:26:54 < mawk> so ln(J) = ln(I + (J-I))
2020-06-23T02:27:05 < mawk> so the series is on K = J-I
2020-06-23T02:27:13 < Cracki> much lettering
2020-06-23T02:27:17 < mawk> K - K²/2 + K³/3 - K⁴/4 + ...
2020-06-23T02:27:53 < Cracki> does that help tho, it's an infinite series
2020-06-23T02:28:19 < Cracki> and I don't think the +-+- stuff simplifies it
2020-06-23T02:28:35 < mawk> yeah you don't use it now
2020-06-23T02:28:39 < mawk> you use it once it's diagonal
2020-06-23T02:28:47 < Cracki> ok
2020-06-23T02:28:56 < mawk> for a diagonal matrix D = (r1, r2), D^n is just (r1^n, r2^n)
2020-06-23T02:29:02 < Cracki> btw, WA refused to calculate J^J
2020-06-23T02:29:14 < mawk> yeah I guess there's something about a principal value or whatever
2020-06-23T02:29:19 < mawk> or WA is just too dumb
2020-06-23T02:29:25 < Cracki> trying desktop version
2020-06-23T02:29:36 < mawk> stephen wolfram should be ashamed
2020-06-23T02:29:49 < Cracki> (mathematica 8 is too dumb to call home, needs all its smarts offline)
2020-06-23T02:31:10 < mawk> so for a diagonal matrix D = (r1, r2), ln(I + D) = (ln(1+r1), ln(1+r2))
2020-06-23T02:31:23 < Cracki> it gives infinities and i*pi for ln(J)
2020-06-23T02:31:38 < mawk> infinities ?
2020-06-23T02:31:51 < Cracki> nvm, it's probably doing elementwise...
2020-06-23T02:31:58 < mawk> I hope
2020-06-23T02:32:01 < mawk> well
2020-06-23T02:32:10 < mawk> normally it should know how to do it
2020-06-23T02:32:11 < Cracki> yes elementwise... eh how to make it do things...
2020-06-23T02:32:23 < mawk> you can diagonalize, then let it do elementwise on the diagonal matrix
2020-06-23T02:32:31 < Cracki> I'm giving it a matrix shaped thing but maybe it's not tagged as matrix type
2020-06-23T02:32:42 < Cracki> ah special functions for matrixexp
2020-06-23T02:33:25 < Cracki> meh it's not smart enough. alt f4 it goes
2020-06-23T02:34:06 < Cracki> so you're saying ln(I + D) = (ln(1+r1), ln(1+r2))
2020-06-23T02:34:11 < Cracki> ok I'll buy that
2020-06-23T02:34:21 < Cracki> now where to use it
2020-06-23T02:35:21 < mawk> we had ln(J) = ln(I + (J-I))
2020-06-23T02:35:48 < Cracki> and then you said K = J-I
2020-06-23T02:35:53 < mawk> so if we diagonalize J-I such that J-I = PDP^(-1), then ln(I + (J-I)) = P ln(I + D) P^(-1)
2020-06-23T02:36:00 < mawk> yeah K is just a label so it's easier
2020-06-23T02:36:30 < mawk> so with K: ln(J) = ln(1+K) = ln(1 + PDP^(-1)) = P ln(1+D) P^(-1)
2020-06-23T02:36:31 < Cracki> I think I see
2020-06-23T02:36:39 < mawk> strangely numpy has no method to diagonalize
2020-06-23T02:36:42 < mawk> only to give eigenvalues
2020-06-23T02:37:44 < Cracki> https://numpy.org/doc/stable/reference/generated/numpy.linalg.eig.html
2020-06-23T02:37:48 < Cracki> :S
2020-06-23T02:37:57 < Cracki> not even a recipe
2020-06-23T02:38:03 < mawk> ah yes
2020-06-23T02:38:17 < mawk> well I guess if the matrix is diagonalizable that works
2020-06-23T02:38:20 < Cracki> eigh? https://stackoverflow.com/questions/50487118/eigendecomposition-makes-me-wonder-in-numpy
2020-06-23T02:38:33 < mawk> but if it's not, with repeated eigenvalues, then it's triangular and I don't know how to do it
2020-06-23T02:38:45 < mawk> I could cook up an algorithm but numpy ought to provide that
2020-06-23T02:40:09 < mawk> but anyway it's diagonalizable here
2020-06-23T02:40:40 < Cracki> J-I = [-1 1][-1 -1]... eigenvalues of that, I should be able to do that
2020-06-23T02:41:22 < Cracki> again (lambda+1)^2 + 1 = 0
2020-06-23T02:41:32 < mawk> you compute the det(XI_n-A) polynomial
2020-06-23T02:41:35 < mawk> yeah
2020-06-23T02:41:45 < Cracki> so complex again
2020-06-23T02:41:46 < mawk> or yours, same thing
2020-06-23T02:41:49 < mawk> yeah
2020-06-23T02:42:09 < Cracki> _does_ this have a solution?
2020-06-23T02:42:25 < mawk> all polynomials have a solution, in complex numbers
2020-06-23T02:42:36 < mawk> the only hurdle that could arise is if the solutions are not all different
2020-06-23T02:42:37 < Cracki> I mean J^J for this J
2020-06-23T02:42:38 < mawk> but not the case here
2020-06-23T02:42:43 < mawk> yes
2020-06-23T02:43:13 < Cracki> wa says solutions are -1-1, -1+i
2020-06-23T02:43:24 < mawk> -1-i and -1+i ye
2020-06-23T02:43:26 < mawk> s
2020-06-23T02:43:41 < Cracki> now I don't remember how to get eigenvectors given that I have eigenvalues
2020-06-23T02:44:16 < mawk> you have eigenvalues r and r*
2020-06-23T02:44:36 < mawk> (r* is conjugate of r, that's how it goes since the polynomial coefficients are real)
2020-06-23T02:44:37 < Cracki> lambda v = alpha v for alpha real
2020-06-23T02:44:41 < Cracki> that's all I know
2020-06-23T02:44:47 < mawk> well
2020-06-23T02:44:48 < Cracki> hm wait no
2020-06-23T02:45:02 < Cracki> Av = lambda v
2020-06-23T02:45:03 < mawk> you do K - rI
2020-06-23T02:45:06 < mawk> yes
2020-06-23T02:45:16 < mawk> AV = rV if V is an eigenvectoro for the eigenvalue r
2020-06-23T02:45:32 < mawk> so (A-rI)V = 0
2020-06-23T02:45:51 < Cracki> I need to digest that
2020-06-23T02:46:06 < mawk> eigenvector is a vector that is just scaled by your matrix
2020-06-23T02:46:17 < mawk> when we view the matrix as a transformation
2020-06-23T02:46:22 < Cracki> Av = rv... (A-rI)v = 0, yes
2020-06-23T02:47:07 < Cracki> I did this in class, I just forgot a lot of the properties and methods. I do remember the basic property of eigenvalues and eigenvectors
2020-06-23T02:47:16 < mawk> yeah it comes back quickly
2020-06-23T02:47:41 < Cracki> ok so, take A-rI, solve
2020-06-23T02:47:58 < mawk> so you chose r = -1-i and r = -1+i, so K-rI is something like [[i, 1], [-1, i]]
2020-06-23T02:48:22 < mawk> you see the two lines are the same, the second is i * the first line
2020-06-23T02:48:30 < Cracki> right, we have K = J-I
2020-06-23T02:48:34 < mawk> yes
2020-06-23T02:48:52 < mawk> so it's expected that two lines are proportional, since this A-rI matrix has a non-zero kernel
2020-06-23T02:48:57 < mawk> (german word !)
2020-06-23T02:50:21 < Cracki> I think we called it Kern
2020-06-23T02:50:31 < Cracki> and I less than faintly recall what a Kern is
2020-06-23T02:50:35 < Cracki> we had Null too
2020-06-23T02:50:37 < Cracki> and Defekt
2020-06-23T02:50:39 < Cracki> and whatnot
2020-06-23T02:51:06 < Cracki> all fancy words for *simple* ideas, which is why I don't remember the words
2020-06-23T02:51:32 < Cracki> I see what you mean with [i,1] * i = [-1, i]
2020-06-23T02:51:42 < mawk> yes
2020-06-23T02:51:55 < Cracki> that's relevant to gaussing this matrix to find the vector
2020-06-23T02:53:14 < mawk> it means just use the first line
2020-06-23T02:53:15 < Cracki> so... v = (-1, 1)
2020-06-23T02:53:18 < Cracki> checking
2020-06-23T02:53:18 < mawk> ix + y = 0
2020-06-23T02:53:31 < Cracki> so... v = (-i, 1)
2020-06-23T02:53:35 < Cracki> that looks better
2020-06-23T02:53:38 < mawk> so y = -ix, so for instance (1, -i)
2020-06-23T02:53:41 < mawk> yeah
2020-06-23T02:53:41 < Cracki> or i, -1, same thing
2020-06-23T02:53:43 < mawk> or (-i, 1)
2020-06-23T02:53:53 < Cracki> 1, -i works too ye
2020-06-23T02:54:06 < Cracki> an i, a 1, and a minus
2020-06-23T02:54:35 < Cracki> that's the one eigenvalue
2020-06-23T02:56:08 < Cracki> second value: [[-i, +1],[-1, -i]] v = 0
2020-06-23T02:58:24 < Cracki> hm, trivial solution would be trivial :>
2020-06-23T02:59:24 < Cracki> (i, 1)
2020-06-23T02:59:25 < mawk> once you have once vector
2020-06-23T02:59:30 < mawk> you can take the complex conjugate
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2020-06-23T02:59:55 < mawk> since (A-rI)V = (A - r*I)V* = 0
2020-06-23T03:00:05 < Cracki> hm my solution may be wrong, rethinking
2020-06-23T03:00:06 < mawk> so second vector is just conjugate of first
2020-06-23T03:00:10 < Cracki> hm ok
2020-06-23T03:00:14 < mawk> well (i, 1) works yes
2020-06-23T03:00:16 < karlp> hrm, anyone got either one of those rd6006 diy power szupplies? it's pretty similar price to like a korad kd3005p, but more bits to buy, 
2020-06-23T03:00:18 < mawk> it's the conjugate of (-i, 1)
2020-06-23T03:00:25 < Cracki> may work but my thinking was wrong
2020-06-23T03:00:52 < karlp> seems like a cheap option for powering and measuring roughly a DUT for line testing.
2020-06-23T03:01:53 < Cracki> ah I see, I gaze upon the columns of the matrix, and I multiply the second by i and then they "cancel". all good
2020-06-23T03:03:46 < mawk> nice
2020-06-23T03:03:51 < mawk> omg
2020-06-23T03:03:52 < qyx> karlp: I am still trying to get that cp210x gpio working on openwrt
2020-06-23T03:03:56 < mawk> P**(-1) isn't the inverse of a matrix in numpy
2020-06-23T03:03:59 < mawk> that's outrageous
2020-06-23T03:04:03 < Cracki> np.linalg.inv
2020-06-23T03:04:05 < mawk> yeah
2020-06-23T03:04:10 < Cracki> or try np.matrix(...)^^-1
2020-06-23T03:04:11 < Cracki> **-1
2020-06-23T03:04:18 < mawk> ah
2020-06-23T03:04:21 < Cracki> it treats np.matrix typed arrays differently
2020-06-23T03:04:37 < mawk> I see
2020-06-23T03:04:43 < mawk> hmm so
2020-06-23T03:04:44 < Cracki> such as * is matrix mul not elementwise mul (@ is always matrix mul in pythons that know @ infix op)
2020-06-23T03:04:54 < mawk> yeah
2020-06-23T03:05:22 < Cracki> K = J-I  = [[1,1], [-i,+i]]
2020-06-23T03:05:26 < Cracki> hm wait
2020-06-23T03:05:32 < mawk> you can notice that V·V* = 0
2020-06-23T03:05:36 < mawk> you mean P
2020-06-23T03:05:45 < mawk> P = (V | V*)
2020-06-23T03:06:05 < mawk> so since V·V* = 0 it means the matrix P = (V V*) is orthogonal
2020-06-23T03:06:13 < mawk> and if you make it orthonormal, you're in for a mega trick
2020-06-23T03:06:14 < Cracki> K = J-I  = PAP^-1, and P = [[1,1], [-i,+i]], A = diag(-1-i, -1+i)
2020-06-23T03:06:28 < mawk> you notice that V·(V*)* = 0 I mean
2020-06-23T03:06:29 < Cracki> oh boy another trick
2020-06-23T03:06:36 < mawk> yeah
2020-06-23T03:06:38 < mawk> it's a cool trick
2020-06-23T03:06:41 < Cracki> I gotta get used to you capitalizing vectors
2020-06-23T03:06:47 < mawk> :(
2020-06-23T03:06:52 < Cracki> I'm wondering where does he get that matrix V from
2020-06-23T03:06:55 < mawk> when I capitalize vector it's when I view them as n×1 matrix
2020-06-23T03:07:10 < Cracki> when are vectors not nx1 matrices
2020-06-23T03:07:26 < Cracki> forget I asked, there's likely a mathy reason that blows my mind
2020-06-23T03:07:28 < mawk> some people use endormphisms instead of matrices
2020-06-23T03:07:33 < Cracki> I knew it
2020-06-23T03:07:34 < mawk> and vectors as points of K^n
2020-06-23T03:07:41 < mawk> but they're insane
2020-06-23T03:07:43 < mawk> everything is a matrix
2020-06-23T03:07:52 < Cracki> methlab says the same
2020-06-23T03:07:58 < mawk> so, remark that <V, V*> = 0
2020-06-23T03:08:02 < mawk> they're orthogonal
2020-06-23T03:08:22 < mawk> so if you divide by ||V|| = V·V* your matrix, then the matrix is orthonormal
2020-06-23T03:08:26 < mawk> and that's super cool
2020-06-23T03:08:36 < Cracki> ok lemme read again why that is. they're just eigenvectors so far. not necessarily orthogonal
2020-06-23T03:08:52 < mawk> so ||V|| = sqrt(1*1 + (-i)*i) = sqrt(2)
2020-06-23T03:09:50 < mawk> there's maybe a condition to have orthogonal eigenvectors, but I don't remember it
2020-06-23T03:09:51 < Cracki> ok, lemme say v1 and v2 for the eigenvectors of eigenvalues 1 and 2. indeed they're conjugates as you said.
2020-06-23T03:10:36 < Cracki> now v1^t v2 = 0 I think I see that, in this specific instance
2020-06-23T03:10:54 < mawk> it's <V1, V2>
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2020-06-23T03:10:59 < Cracki> which is (1,-i) * ((1), (+i))
2020-06-23T03:11:08 < mawk> so since it's complex that is really V1^T · V2*
2020-06-23T03:11:08 < Cracki> I remember the <> stuff
2020-06-23T03:11:23 < mawk> it's a special inner product when it's complex stuff
2020-06-23T03:11:52 < mawk> if you use P = [[1/sqrt(2), 1/sqrt(2)], [-i/sqrt(2), i/sqrt(2)]] then P^(-1) = P*^T (conjugate of transpose, the symbol is sometimes a little christian cross which is really a dagger)
2020-06-23T03:12:14 < Cracki> where does P come from
2020-06-23T03:12:23 < mawk> it's the matrix with V and V* as columns
2020-06-23T03:12:29 < Cracki> what's the pupose of taking ||v||
2020-06-23T03:12:39 < mawk> it's to make the matrix orthonormal
2020-06-23T03:12:42 < Cracki> i.e. what's the use of their magnitudes
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2020-06-23T03:12:45 < Cracki> ah normal
2020-06-23T03:12:50 < mawk> so that the length of all the columns is 1
2020-06-23T03:12:58 < mawk> so since the matrix was orthogonal, and now it's orthonormal
2020-06-23T03:13:04 < Cracki> ok, you determined that they're orthogonal, and now you normalize them too, to what end?
2020-06-23T03:13:12 < mawk> when we do P · P*^T we get exactly [[1, 0], (0, 1]]
2020-06-23T03:13:23 < mawk> so we get P^(-1) for free
2020-06-23T03:13:29 < mawk> by just transposing + conjugate
2020-06-23T03:13:32 < Cracki> did you just make the diagonal matrix disappear
2020-06-23T03:13:39 < Cracki> or something
2020-06-23T03:13:49 < karlp> qyx: oh :|
2020-06-23T03:13:51 < mawk> ah no that's just a way to say that P*^T is P^(-1)
2020-06-23T03:14:01 < karlp> qyx: sorry,late here, no real extra guidance I can give you
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2020-06-23T03:14:05 < mawk> if you have AB = [[1, 0], [0, 1]] then B = A⁻¹
2020-06-23T03:14:09 < Cracki> I have too little ram to keep track of all these things
2020-06-23T03:14:22 < karlp> qyx: does it work for you on normal linux? are you just having problems withthe usb control transfer magic numbers?
2020-06-23T03:14:30 < karlp> or is it anowrt specific problem?
2020-06-23T03:17:58 < qyx> karlp: no, I am just FYI
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2020-06-23T03:20:31 < jly> do I need linear algebra to build a bear trap?
2020-06-23T03:26:02 < Cracki> you need surgery to build a bear trap
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2020-06-23T06:04:49 < aandrew> been ignoring this chan for a while, not sure if you've seen it: https://www.eletimes.com/stm32cube-microcontroller-development-software-from-stmicroelectronics-now-on-github
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2020-06-23T08:39:59 < benishor> aandrew: great, maybe someone will finally make it 4k compliant
2020-06-23T08:40:53 < benishor> ah, I can't see cubemx in there
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2020-06-23T09:22:54 < dongs> the fuck is an "offer"
2020-06-23T09:22:57 < dongs> fucking french fucks
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2020-06-23T09:34:43 < zyp> they misspelled «suffer»
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2020-06-23T09:48:49 < kakimate> Steffanx: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H9C0jYan8i8
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2020-06-23T12:23:15 < karlp> aandrew: we've missed some enlightend chats.
2020-06-23T12:34:52 < jadew> ASCIIMath example: http://82.76.81.44/stuff/asciimath.jpg
2020-06-23T12:35:07 < jadew> (the formula means nothing)
2020-06-23T12:35:18 < jadew> mawk, how would that look like in shitex?
2020-06-23T12:41:07 < benishor> the advantage of asciimath is that it can also be used on web with mathjax
2020-06-23T12:41:23 < jadew> yeah, but mathjax does tex too
2020-06-23T12:41:38 < benishor> well then, pick your poison I'd say
2020-06-23T12:41:44 < jadew> I think the real advantage is that you can actually read it easily
2020-06-23T12:41:48 < benishor> asciimath is clearly less bloated than tex math
2020-06-23T12:41:53 < jadew> exactly
2020-06-23T12:41:55 < PaulFertser> a = \sqrt{\frac{b}{2} + 10} + \frac{A_1}{B^2} + \omega T \cdot e^\frac{1}{2}
2020-06-23T12:42:33 < jadew> good one :P
2020-06-23T12:42:47 < benishor> because in genreal that's the purpose of all these lightweight markup languages like markdown, asciidoc, retex
2020-06-23T12:42:55 < PaulFertser> I entered it on https://arachnoid.com/latex/ , looks about the same
2020-06-23T12:43:41 < benishor> I don't know why I would expect a proper pdf render to look better than these online thinggies :)
2020-06-23T12:45:01 < PaulFertser> MathJax render looks wrong, for whatever reason b/2 uses smaller font. 
2020-06-23T12:45:20 < jadew> in my picture?
2020-06-23T12:45:31 < jadew> or in your thingie?
2020-06-23T12:46:02 < PaulFertser> jadew: in my thingie
2020-06-23T12:46:15 < PaulFertser> https://arachnoid.com/latex/?equ=a%20%3D%20%5Csqrt%7B%5Cfrac%7Bb%7D%7B2%7D%20%2B%2010%7D%20%2B%20%5Cfrac%7BA_1%7D%7BB%5E2%7D%20%2B%20%5Comega%20T%20%5Ccdot%20e%5E%5Cfrac%7B1%7D%7B2%7D
2020-06-23T12:46:16 < jadew> could be a setting or something
2020-06-23T12:46:32 < jadew> yeah, looks smaller
2020-06-23T12:46:46 < PaulFertser> But switching to CodeCogs makes it look apparently the same as your render
2020-06-23T12:46:53 < jadew> A/B also look smaller
2020-06-23T12:47:17 < jadew> my render there is using MathJax
2020-06-23T12:48:19 < jadew> maybe it scales itself
2020-06-23T12:48:27 < jadew> let me try to increase the container on that page
2020-06-23T12:49:08 < jadew> nope
2020-06-23T12:49:09 < PaulFertser> I agree that for this example ASCIIMath notation looks simpler. Not sure how well it scales to more complicated cases.
2020-06-23T12:49:50 < jadew> well, I can't imagine latex making it any clearer
2020-06-23T12:50:57 < jadew> at the very least it seems to be more compact, which allows you to see more of the equation at the same time
2020-06-23T12:51:18 < PaulFertser> It looks like this asciimath makes plenty of assumptions about how you want the end result to look. So it automatically translates / to \frac, * to \cdot etc. It makes sense for relatively simple expressions like that, I agree.
2020-06-23T12:51:46 < jadew> http://asciimath.org/
2020-06-23T12:51:54 < jadew> you can use the input there to try to break it
2020-06-23T12:52:42 < jadew> so far, I didn't mind the output at all
2020-06-23T12:52:52 < jadew> so I'm ok with the assumptions it's making
2020-06-23T12:53:09 < jadew> and if I want to, I can fall back on tex, because this plugin supports both
2020-06-23T12:53:30 < PaulFertser> So it suits your usecases then, nice.
2020-06-23T12:55:19 < karlp> what's with the superscript * jade?
2020-06-23T12:55:30 < karlp> and you have omega on your keymap?
2020-06-23T12:55:57 < jadew> karlp, no, I have a plugin that converts latex characters to UTF8
2020-06-23T12:56:02 < jadew> I have it here as well ω
2020-06-23T12:56:10 < jadew> π
2020-06-23T12:56:13 < jadew> τ
2020-06-23T12:56:19 < jadew> very nice
2020-06-23T12:56:48 < jadew> what do you mean about the superscript?
2020-06-23T12:57:25 < PaulFertser> * looks not centered in your text
2020-06-23T12:57:37 < PaulFertser> I guess it's just an odd font
2020-06-23T12:57:40 < jadew> oh, you're right
2020-06-23T12:57:44 < jadew> yeah, it's weird
2020-06-23T12:58:38 < jadew> the font is Consolas
2020-06-23T13:01:56 < karlp> hrm, I thought I had omega somewhere, but instead I've got useless stuff like ł and ŧ and ł (yeah, I have that twice somehow)
2020-06-23T13:02:10 < jadew> heh
2020-06-23T13:02:18 < karlp> at least I have  µ
2020-06-23T13:02:23 < jadew> ah, nice
2020-06-23T13:02:47 < jadew> I wouldn't mind another modifier key just for that
2020-06-23T13:03:12 < karlp> I think I remember customizing the icelandic layout once to put "useful to me" things on teh alt-gr modes, instead of those łŧđŋħ shitz
2020-06-23T13:03:25 < jadew> but I got used to typing the names out, it's not an inconvenience at all
2020-06-23T13:04:58 < jadew> the only problem with the plugin I use here is that it thinks you should also be able to modify what you wrote
2020-06-23T13:05:30 < jadew> so you go \ Omega, it replaces it with Ω and then when you hit backspace it becomes \ Omeg
2020-06-23T13:05:51 < jadew> but if you use the arrows to move through the text, it completely screws up your buffer
2020-06-23T13:06:42 < jadew> in VSCode you just get the replacement and if you're not happy with it, you can delete it and start over
2020-06-23T13:08:13 < karlp> 9yeah, that sounds easy to fuck up in an editor
2020-06-23T13:08:27 < karlp> backspace shoudl just delete the whole ligature is probably sanest
2020-06-23T13:08:41 < jadew> yeah
2020-06-23T13:15:25 < benishor> granted it performs live conversion
2020-06-23T13:15:32 < benishor> as you type
2020-06-23T13:16:30 < benishor> " the only problem with the plugin I use here is that it thinks you should also be able to modify what you wrote"
2020-06-23T13:16:37 < benishor> what software is that plugin for, jadew?
2020-06-23T13:16:45 < jadew> weechat
2020-06-23T13:17:16 < benishor> well, perhaps it can be modified for the expected behaviour
2020-06-23T13:17:28 < jadew> for sure, but meh...
2020-06-23T13:17:34 < benishor> what's it written in?
2020-06-23T13:17:42 < jadew> I don't know... python maybe?
2020-06-23T13:17:43 < benishor> weechat seems to support 8 scripting languages 
2020-06-23T13:17:47 < jadew> let me check
2020-06-23T13:17:59 < benishor> what's its name?
2020-06-23T13:18:20 < benishor> https://weechat.org/scripts/source/latex_unicode.py.html/
2020-06-23T13:18:23 < benishor> this one perhaps?
2020-06-23T13:19:36 < jadew> it's python
2020-06-23T13:19:39 < jadew> yeah
2020-06-23T13:19:41 < jadew> that's the one
2020-06-23T13:21:55 < jadew> it's not a big deal, I just keep in mind that if I want to change something I can't navigate through the text and I just delete stuff
2020-06-23T13:22:01 < jadew> also, I rarely use it here
2020-06-23T13:22:52 < jadew> I could be fancy tho, and always say μcontroller
2020-06-23T13:23:47 < Cracki> there's no reason it should fuck up the buffer while the cursor moves
2020-06-23T13:24:39 < jadew> it's a text mode client, there are probably two buffers here
2020-06-23T13:25:53 < benishor> most likely
2020-06-23T13:26:07 < benishor> you have set input setting to on, yes?
2020-06-23T13:26:23 < benishor> input and send both on on?
2020-06-23T13:26:37 < jadew> not sure what you mean benishor
2020-06-23T13:26:42 < jadew> does it have settings?
2020-06-23T13:27:02 < jadew> yeah, they're both to on
2020-06-23T13:27:05 < jadew> all 3 settings are on
2020-06-23T13:27:13 < benishor> try to disable buffer setting?
2020-06-23T13:27:21 < jadew> ok, let's ee
2020-06-23T13:27:23 < jadew> see
2020-06-23T13:27:36 < benishor> just a gut feeling
2020-06-23T13:27:52 < jadew> abcd π ddabcd
2020-06-23T13:27:58 < jadew> no, it still screws up
2020-06-23T13:28:27 < jadew> if I type abcd π abc and then hit arrow back, I have to hit it twice before it starts moving
2020-06-23T13:28:41 < jadew> third time it moves
2020-06-23T13:29:22 < jadew> hmm, let me see if it's the same behaviour with something longer, maybe it's an artifact of strlen() or something
2020-06-23T13:29:27 < jadew> where π is longer than 1 character
2020-06-23T13:29:49 < jadew> no, it's about the name of the character
2020-06-23T13:30:23 < benishor> ok, that's an input problem I guess
2020-06-23T13:30:29 < benishor> it doesn't have to do with weechat 
2020-06-23T13:30:34 < benishor> but with the input library it uses
2020-06-23T13:31:09 < jadew> in opensource slang, "not a problem, won't fix" :P
2020-06-23T13:31:35 < benishor> I'm wrong though. it's a weechat issue for sure
2020-06-23T13:31:46 < benishor> since it handles the backspace on itself and presents you the old buffer you had laying there
2020-06-23T13:32:01 < benishor> unicode input handling does not deal with latex symbols
2020-06-23T13:32:06 < benishor> I mean latex encoding
2020-06-23T13:32:51 < jadew> obviously, I mean that the resulting character could be longer than 1 byte, which could have resulted in the wrong string size being reported, but that doesn't seem to be the case
2020-06-23T13:35:02 < Cracki> that script... I see no handling of backspace
2020-06-23T13:36:45 < Cracki> didn't notice any handling of cursor position either
2020-06-23T13:44:20 < benishor> that must be done by the main program itself
2020-06-23T13:44:37 < Cracki> no, that is the whole script.
2020-06-23T13:44:46 < benishor> but since it is also replacing in the text input, I would expect it to be able to set/replace the input buffer as well
2020-06-23T13:44:54 < Cracki> it seems that there are multiple versions of what you're typing, and the options of the script determine which version gets mangled
2020-06-23T13:44:55 < benishor> that script is ran as a plugin
2020-06-23T13:45:04 < benishor> inside a host process
2020-06-23T13:45:08 < Cracki> it's being dumb, basically
2020-06-23T13:45:16 < Cracki> that it's a script is not in question
2020-06-23T13:45:49 < benishor> the very differentiation between what is shown and what is being sent is fucked up
2020-06-23T13:46:11 < Cracki> what I mean is: if there were an actual feature letting you edit a symbol after it was turned into a symbol, the script would have to handle backspace and cursor position
2020-06-23T13:46:26 < benishor> you have "replace LaTeX in input display" and "replace LaTeX in input sending", which implies !WYSIWYG
2020-06-23T13:46:44 < Cracki> yes, weechat has weird distinctions there
2020-06-23T13:46:46 < benishor> I would have expected weechat to simply allow you to replace the edit buffer
2020-06-23T13:46:58 < benishor> if you perform a transformation
2020-06-23T13:48:32 < Cracki> "Content of command line, without cursor tag."
2020-06-23T13:49:03 < Cracki> implying there's one with cursor tag
2020-06-23T13:49:39 < Cracki> weechat docs, one single gigantic html page
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2020-06-23T14:22:53 < dongs> aandrew: why arent you in the higher quality STM32 pro chats
2020-06-23T14:35:37 < zyp> the what?
2020-06-23T14:52:31 < Cracki> telegram
2020-06-23T14:52:43 < Cracki> it is said to have more cat pics
2020-06-23T14:54:54 < karlp> it is full of cats
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2020-06-23T15:41:24 < jadew> what's telegram?
2020-06-23T15:41:31 < jadew> I think I heard about it before
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2020-06-23T15:43:48 < Cracki> it's like IRC except full of furries posting cute "stickers"
2020-06-23T15:44:09 < Cracki> also putin gets a copy
2020-06-23T15:48:35 < mawk> PaulFertser: you need to use \dfrac
2020-06-23T15:48:42 < mawk> to have a big fraction where it's nested
2020-06-23T15:50:56 < PaulFertser> mawk: hm, I'm reading it's not about nesting but rather about text vs math display modes.
2020-06-23T15:51:30 < mawk> \dfrac is when you use mathjax
2020-06-23T15:51:36 < mawk> but it's probably true with regular latex too
2020-06-23T15:51:51 < mawk> $\frac{a}{b}$ makes a big fraction
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2020-06-23T15:52:00 < mawk> and $e^{\frac{a}{b}}$ makes a small fraction
2020-06-23T15:52:09 < mawk> one is nested, not the other
2020-06-23T15:52:45 < mawk> but you have for other symbols that $\sum$ is small because it's the inline mode, and $$\sum$$ will be big
2020-06-23T15:52:54 < mawk> in that case you can do $\displaystyle \sum$ to revert to the big style
2020-06-23T15:52:57 < PaulFertser> mawk: idk, I've seen \frac always doing the sane thing by default in LaTeX.
2020-06-23T15:53:10 < mawk> well you can argue that a nested fraction be small is sane
2020-06-23T15:53:23 < mawk> let me try
2020-06-23T15:53:26 < PaulFertser> And the defaults style (both inline and $$ were looking reasonably nice to me).
2020-06-23T15:53:51 < mawk> e^{\dfrac{a}{b}} is not particuarly nice
2020-06-23T15:53:58 < mawk> so indeed having a big frac in it is a good choice
2020-06-23T15:54:04 < mawk> even though I'd just write e^{a/b}
2020-06-23T15:55:20 < mawk> in latex \frac is always small in $$
2020-06-23T15:55:22 < mawk> apparently
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2020-06-23T15:55:27 < mawk> not in mathjax
2020-06-23T15:55:40 < mawk> so yeah sprinkle \dfrac where you need
2020-06-23T15:56:20 < mawk> and to force the small one, \tfrac
2020-06-23T15:57:01 < PaulFertser> Well what works well for web browsers is probably suboptimal for print, and vice versa.
2020-06-23T15:57:28 < PaulFertser> I'd say always use \frac and let the renderer decide on what's best for the specific case.
2020-06-23T15:58:51 < mawk> when writing inline I very often use the big mode
2020-06-23T15:59:00 < mawk> Because that's just how I write maths on paper
2020-06-23T15:59:10 < mawk> I don't write smaller when I write symbols in the middle of an english sentence
2020-06-23T15:59:22 < mawk> so it doesn't make sense that it's the case in my documents
2020-06-23T16:01:34 < mawk> it's not that latex is making good styling decision for your maths here
2020-06-23T16:01:42 < mawk> it's that latex is making decisions for the text rather
2020-06-23T16:01:47 < mawk> it wants the maths to look like the text
2020-06-23T16:02:19 < mawk> so inline maths is reduced to be closer to the height of text unless you use \displaystyle
2020-06-23T16:09:53 < aandrew> dongs: I don't know about the higher quality stm32 pro chats
2020-06-23T16:10:13 < aandrew> but if it requires me to run a separate app like dickscord I won't really be in it anyway
2020-06-23T16:10:42 < aandrew> looks like there is a telegram irc bridge
2020-06-23T16:11:16 < zyp> that's the problem with all these modern chats, there's just too fucking many of them
2020-06-23T16:11:30 < strata> and they all want your data. they're like addicts.
2020-06-23T16:12:17 < zyp> that's not the issue
2020-06-23T16:12:44 < zyp> the issue is that everything ends up all over the place
2020-06-23T16:14:19 < aandrew> hm, looks like matterbridge might do it
2020-06-23T16:14:31 < aandrew> as long as I don't have to use some fucking client to get to all the combined chats
2020-06-23T16:15:53 < Cracki> freenode is owned by PIA. PIA is owned by Kape. and we all know who owns Kape
2020-06-23T16:16:19 < zyp> who the fuck cares who owns freenode, it's public chats anyway
2020-06-23T16:16:29 < Cracki> PIA/Kape is in the business of "privacy VPNs", i.e. piping your data straight to intelligence agencies
2020-06-23T16:16:33 < aandrew> no idea what the fuck Kape is
2020-06-23T16:17:39 < Cracki> https://restoreprivacy.com/private-internet-access-kape-crossrider/#:~:text=Crossrider%20(Kape)%20created%20%E2%80%9Chigh,the%20company%20was%20called%20Crossrider.&text=Crossrider%20offers%20a%20highly%20configurable,end%2Dusers%20is%20software%20bundlers.
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2020-06-23T16:24:08 < aandrew> hah
2020-06-23T16:24:12 < aandrew> stm32hal is not hte channel
2020-06-23T16:24:14 < Cracki> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Teddy_Sagi
2020-06-23T16:24:18 < aandrew> that's like for halal stm32
2020-06-23T16:24:26 < Cracki> haram
2020-06-23T16:25:31 < aandrew> wtf telegram is full of arabs and russians
2020-06-23T16:50:18 < strata> allahu AVRbar!
2020-06-23T16:53:50 < jadew> there are a couple of electronics servers on discord
2020-06-23T16:53:53 < jadew> they're garbage
2020-06-23T16:54:13 < Cracki> discord is for canceling people and organizing terrorism
2020-06-23T16:54:24 < Cracki> also for grooming kids into rejecting their biology
2020-06-23T16:54:34 < jadew> heh
2020-06-23T16:58:54 < Cracki> cat + water https://youtu.be/ST0Y6xFbC8g?t=239
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2020-06-23T17:18:27 < karlp> discord is just a service you can run yourself anywhere and have whatever policies you like...
2020-06-23T17:20:57 < karlp> nvm, I was mixing it up with something else
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2020-06-23T17:36:21 < zyp> karlp, mattermost, perhaps?
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2020-06-23T18:22:42 < aandrew> so what is this fabled telegram channel
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2020-06-23T18:35:23 < azonenberg> aandrew: https://www.antikernel.net/temp/maxwell-03.png / https://www.antikernel.net/temp/maxwell-04.png been busy lately
2020-06-23T18:35:42 < azonenberg> finished making all of the footprints, now need to finish the schematic signoff review before i can do actual layout
2020-06-23T18:35:54 < azonenberg> There's a stm32f777 hiding off in one corner, looks tiny compared to the big xilinx stuff lol
2020-06-23T18:37:12 < azonenberg> i thought it was overkill and now here i am using ~70% of the pins lol
2020-06-23T18:37:52 < azonenberg> so far i think i'm using three timers, all of the i2cs, ethernet, several lanes of spi, RGB24 LCD, a couple of uarts...
2020-06-23T18:39:02 < azonenberg> but it doesnt even really feel like scope creep
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2020-06-23T18:39:18 < azonenberg> most of these were features i wanted from the start
2020-06-23T18:40:51 < azonenberg> Bets on how many bodgewires i'm gonna need to make this thing work in the end? :p
2020-06-23T18:41:26 < karlp> what connector is j16..j20?
2020-06-23T18:41:52 < azonenberg> karlp: SFF-8087, mini SAS. although i'm not using it for SAS
2020-06-23T18:42:13 < azonenberg> this is a 96 channel logic analyzer, each of the twelve input connectors has eight lanes of LVDS on it going to active probe heads
2020-06-23T18:42:25 < karlp> right.
2020-06-23T18:44:50 < aandrew> azonenberg: you gotta clean your screen. looks like those fine cobwebs some spiders make that just seems to cover everything :-)
2020-06-23T18:45:10 < karlp> what sort of power supply? module is that lower left?
2020-06-23T18:45:11 < azonenberg> aandrew: lol
2020-06-23T18:45:14 < aandrew> azonenberg: with your checklist? I put my bet on under 20
2020-06-23T18:45:23 < aandrew> maybe even under 10
2020-06-23T18:45:26 < azonenberg> karlp: 1/8 brick DOSA dc-dc module
2020-06-23T18:45:37 < azonenberg> 48V 2A or 24V 4A -> 12V 8A
2020-06-23T18:45:42 < karlp> and the little square ones?
2020-06-23T18:45:50 < azonenberg> well the module is rated for 9, but my math says i shouldn't need much more than 7.5 worst case
2020-06-23T18:45:58 < karlp> do they provide that coloured 3d footprint themselves?
2020-06-23T18:46:10 < azonenberg> the tiny square ones are OKL-T/3-W12P-C
2020-06-23T18:46:13 < azonenberg> from Murata
2020-06-23T18:46:51 < karlp> 15W each,  nice .)
2020-06-23T18:46:53 < azonenberg> then a few other intermediate ones
2020-06-23T18:47:02 < azonenberg> well my 1.0V rail for the FPGA could be pulling up to 8 amps
2020-06-23T18:47:14 < azonenberg> although i split it into two rails for noise isolation reasons
2020-06-23T18:47:23 < karlp> they are nice and smol, only 12mm square, cute
2020-06-23T18:48:40 < azonenberg> Yeah. then some other assorted modules for other rails
2020-06-23T18:49:01 < karlp> but yeah, are they 3d models from delta/dosa directly? being so coloured like htat?
2020-06-23T18:49:35 < azonenberg> i used modules for all of the dc-dc stuff i could simply because the thing was so massive already i didnt want to add more complexity :p
2020-06-23T18:49:45 < azonenberg> and the modules for the big converters are not the actual parts i'm using
2020-06-23T18:50:10 < azonenberg> as delta and tdk lambda didn't have readily findable step models
2020-06-23T18:50:28 < azonenberg> so i used models from murata and some other vendor that fit the same dosa footprint
2020-06-23T18:50:56 < azonenberg> they were mostly to sanity check my kicad footprint for the module so as long as it was the same standard footprint it was good enough
2020-06-23T18:51:05 < braindamage> englishm1 (chat.freenode.net): you might want to try ovivo too, platformer, great ambience and music
2020-06-23T18:57:09 < qyx> much layers, wow
2020-06-23T18:59:01 < braindamage> englishman (irc chat.freenode.net): 
2020-06-23T19:01:11 < azonenberg> Yeah it's gonna be 8 layers for sure
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2020-06-23T19:30:59 < Steffanx> heh braindamage, why you add the network name to people you mention lately?
2020-06-23T19:31:02 < Steffanx> fancy client?
2020-06-23T19:31:48 < braindamage> my apologies, I've setup a personal matrix<->irc bridge and probably misconfigured the mentions
2020-06-23T19:32:11 < Steffanx> oh, no apologies needed, im just curious.
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2020-06-23T19:40:37 < PaulFertser> How's life braindamage, getting back to normal hopefully?
2020-06-23T19:41:49 < braindamage> so and so, a lot of people stopped giving a crap about distancing, yet the rules are in place
2020-06-23T19:41:58 < braindamage> so as result they are being enforced arbitrarily
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2020-06-23T19:43:03 < PaulFertser> Oh, that kinda sucks.
2020-06-23T19:43:28 < PaulFertser> Were the pubs allowed to work at least with outside tables?
2020-06-23T19:43:49 < braindamage> even inside, but you're supposed to hold a 1m distance between people
2020-06-23T19:44:23 < PaulFertser> That's kinda reasonable I guess
2020-06-23T19:44:24 < braindamage> I had a cop pester me because I took off my mask outside when I was ~10m away from the nearest person
2020-06-23T19:44:41 < braindamage> and next to me there was a bar with people literally shoulder to shoulder
2020-06-23T19:44:58 < braindamage> ofc without masks because it's impossible to eat/drink with a mask on
2020-06-23T19:45:46 < braindamage> and it seems to be the common pattern too, people wear masks while walking around, as if it's a air pestilence from the 1000s
2020-06-23T19:46:10 < braindamage> but take the mask off because it fogs glasses / is uncomfortable / etc, when they meet others
2020-06-23T19:46:28 < braindamage> so basically wear it in the opposite conditions of what they should
2020-06-23T19:47:17 < PaulFertser> That's nuts
2020-06-23T19:49:32 < braindamage> supermarkets, pharmacies, etc are super strict on regulations on the other hand
2020-06-23T19:49:44 < braindamage> because they've been open even during the worst times
2020-06-23T19:50:09 < braindamage> the business that were open during the peak were super strict about the rules and their enforcements
2020-06-23T19:51:04 < braindamage> that being said, the amount of people going around still has been considerably reduced compared to
2020-06-23T19:51:22 < braindamage> so the rules are partially effective in that term
2020-06-23T19:51:34 < braindamage> mostly by reducing gathering places effective capacity, etc
2020-06-23T19:52:48 < braindamage> also, laurenceb-grade link: https://economictimes.indiatimes.com/news/defence/fire-power-of-drdos-arjun-tank-takes-quantum-jump-with-new-ammunition-mod/articleshow/50514955.cms?from=mdr
2020-06-23T19:55:33 < jadew> lol
2020-06-23T19:56:08 < jadew> someone played a prank on the journalist?
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2020-06-23T20:14:00 < Cracki> looks like india space program
2020-06-23T20:14:36 < Cracki> uh lol they backronym for PCB
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2020-06-23T20:17:22 < bitmask> ok time for my first harbor freight trip, wish me luck
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2020-06-23T21:27:49 < brdb> bitmask: remember everything is on sale all the time, so don't get caught up in buying half the store's worth of chinesium tools
2020-06-23T21:30:43 < Steffanx> too bad he's gone already.
2020-06-23T21:35:57 < PaulFertser> As if he's not mature enough to be aware of chinesium tools quality and price.
2020-06-23T21:43:17 < Cracki> AvE has a cute nickname for harbor freight, can't remember tho
2020-06-23T21:44:10 < Cracki> has little to do with maturity. it makes sense to buy throwaways if you haven't the experience and judgement to know what a good tool is and what is just expensive
2020-06-23T21:46:15 < zyp> except when you end up paying more in the long run
2020-06-23T21:46:18 < Cracki> sure I could buy a JBC soldering iron... if I were using it commercially or had the money to spend on a hobby.
2020-06-23T21:46:28 < Cracki> yes, long run.
2020-06-23T21:46:39 < zyp> although there's some merit to the «buy cheap the first time, buy expensive if it breaks»
2020-06-23T21:47:04 < Cracki> consider how much use you'll get out of it, and what that use is worth to you, and how much misery you'd buy if you went for a cheap one
2020-06-23T21:48:28 < PaulFertser> Consider how much you'll suffer when you strip a screw head trying a shitty screwdriver on it. 
2020-06-23T21:48:54 < zyp> then you have cordless power tools, where you buy into a system
2020-06-23T21:49:02 < Cracki> just get a stick welder and stick the electrode to the screw. then you can unscrew it with pliers
2020-06-23T21:49:27 < Cracki> I love three-phase to gardena
2020-06-23T21:50:41 < Cracki> I'm kinda pissed about my cheap old soldering station. it has its own system for tips. nobody makes them anymore. can't find a well tip (flat 45 degree face) for it.
2020-06-23T21:50:56 < Cracki> they should have picked an existing system and stuck to it
2020-06-23T21:53:05 < Steffanx> is there even such system?
2020-06-23T21:53:09 < Cracki> I could buy some expensive wine or some hyped amtech flux but I don't have the taste buds to appreciate it
2020-06-23T21:53:25 < Cracki> weller has its system, jbc has its system
2020-06-23T21:53:38 < Steffanx> Go JBC and pay a lot of $$$ for every tip you want/need.
2020-06-23T21:53:41 < zyp> they both have several systems
2020-06-23T21:53:47 < Cracki> a system of systems
2020-06-23T21:54:16 < Steffanx> i do like my jbc though
2020-06-23T21:54:25 < zyp> but yeah, that's the best part about my old weller, I can still pick up tips from any of the big distributors
2020-06-23T21:54:28 < Cracki> if I needed an iron for world championship competitive soldering, I'd maybe look up some reviews and comparisons
2020-06-23T21:54:56 < Steffanx> lol the world champion ship of soldering is a joke. i wonder if dongs ever tried to sign up yet.
2020-06-23T21:55:16 < Cracki> wait that's a thing? I just made that up
2020-06-23T21:55:33 < Cracki> oh lol http://www.ipc.org/ContentPage.aspx?pageid=IPC-Crowns-New-Hand-Soldering-World-Champion-2019
2020-06-23T21:57:15 < zyp> doesn't seem like the most productive use of time
2020-06-23T21:57:16 < Cracki> til: jbc is spanish (hq there). always thought they were *J*apanese like *J*ST
2020-06-23T21:57:24 < zyp> heh
2020-06-23T21:59:13 < Cracki> I saw some "electronics hotplates" on aliex. cube shaped things, flat metal on top. for reflow soldering. good alternative to an oven. you can get your eye closer to the action (safety squint!) and you can even use it to keep the board toasty below liquidus for very easy rework
2020-06-23T21:59:45 < Cracki> I always thought the hotplate method was ghetto-ghetto but it's just frowned upon by moneyed westerners
2020-06-23T22:00:01 < zyp> meh, it's still ghetto
2020-06-23T22:00:39 < Cracki> hood ripped off a car heated over a tire fire is ghetto
2020-06-23T22:02:05 < zyp> also useless as soon as you want to do double sided assembly
2020-06-23T22:02:13 < Cracki> :D
2020-06-23T22:02:30 < Steffanx> then dont do double sided..
2020-06-23T22:02:41 < Steffanx> how often you REAALLY needed that mr zyp?
2020-06-23T22:02:52 < Cracki> prop the pcb up on standoffs. the heat will convect off the hotplate
2020-06-23T22:03:00 < zyp> Steffanx, I think so far once on the boards I've designed myself
2020-06-23T22:03:06 < zyp> s/designed/assembled/
2020-06-23T22:03:07 < Steffanx> Sure you're new board wouldnt allow it, but .. i wouldnt even dare to ghetto that anyway 
2020-06-23T22:03:10 < Steffanx> *your
2020-06-23T22:03:57 < Cracki> I was about to make a dumb little 2L board with both sides SMD because the one side is just passives I'd do with an iron... but the tire fire method definitely benefits from one-sided situations
2020-06-23T22:04:56 < zyp> https://bin.jvnv.net/file/r1ChW.JPG <- this board got decoupling on the bottom, I think that's the only one I've assembled myself so far
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2020-06-23T22:05:46 < zyp> https://bin.jvnv.net/file/rL7QV.png <- this thing have stacking connectors on the bottom
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2020-06-23T22:21:59 < Cracki> AvE vs harbor freight https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jqWypTAG4Hw
2020-06-23T22:22:32 -!- c10ud^ [~c10ud@emesene/dictator/c10ud] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds]
2020-06-23T22:23:56 < Cracki> "hazard fraught"
2020-06-23T22:25:58 -!- fenugrec [~fenugrec@97.107.220.18] has joined ##stm32
2020-06-23T22:26:42 < bitmask> my first trip was successful, i only bought 1 thing
2020-06-23T22:26:55 < Steffanx> we're proud of you
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2020-06-23T22:28:21 < bitmask> thank you, thank you ::bows::
2020-06-23T22:30:53 < bitmask> burb
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2020-06-23T22:42:23 < PaulFertser> bitmask: what thing did you buy?
2020-06-23T22:42:53 < bitmask> https://www.harborfreight.com/4-inch-jaw-capacity-drill-press-vise-30999.html
2020-06-23T22:46:14 < Mangy_Dog> https://www.therpf.com/forums/threads/my-working-stargate-miniature.328766/page-3#post-5083211
2020-06-23T22:46:20 -!- Thorn [~Thorn@unaffiliated/thorn] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer]
2020-06-23T22:47:42 < PaulFertser> "You don't have permission to access "http://www.harborfreight.com/4-inch-jaw-capacity-drill-press-vise-30999.html" on this server." what the actual fuck
2020-06-23T22:47:53 < bitmask> someone else said that too
2020-06-23T22:47:55 < bitmask> no idea why
2020-06-23T22:48:12 < Cracki> my swedish IP can do it
2020-06-23T22:48:26 < PaulFertser> Apparently they're discriminating russians!
2020-06-23T22:48:34 < bitmask> https://www.amazon.com/Irwin-Tools-Drill-Press-226340/dp/B0001LQY4O
2020-06-23T22:48:36 < bitmask> its basically that
2020-06-23T22:48:37 < Cracki> da
2020-06-23T22:49:02 < Cracki> not quite a machine vise
2020-06-23T22:49:48 < bitmask> just wanted it for my crappy dremel drill press I printed
2020-06-23T22:50:02 < bitmask> and some other stuff
2020-06-23T22:54:51 < Steffanx> Cracki when you think your aliexpress packages are missing, they are: https://www.facebook.com/klusbedrijf.vanderkraan/posts/559591864929339 
2020-06-23T22:55:23 < Steffanx> they claim its a stolen trailer with china packages. German and dutch destination.
2020-06-23T22:55:32 < Cracki> o.o
2020-06-23T22:56:30 < bitmask> wow
2020-06-23T22:56:54 < Cracki> one truck MOQ
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2020-06-23T23:37:44 < antto> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3y35VYldULw
2020-06-23T23:38:01 -!- renn0xtk9 [~max@2a02:810d:1540:61b8:f5ef:9004:b448:35e6] has quit [Quit: Konversation terminated!]
2020-06-23T23:38:37 < Cracki> >dances with white girls
2020-06-23T23:38:41 < Cracki> >dances with wolves
2020-06-23T23:38:50 < Cracki> white girls dance with wolves, that's right
2020-06-23T23:39:18 < antto> shadap, this is noice music
2020-06-23T23:39:25 < Cracki> noise ye
2020-06-23T23:39:35 < Cracki> can't goosestep to that
2020-06-23T23:39:50 < antto> just nod ur head
2020-06-23T23:41:09 < Cracki> "can I borrow..." yeah they're borrowing all day and all night in the CHAZ
2020-06-23T23:43:05 < antto> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FKXSh14svlQ&t=30
2020-06-23T23:43:24 < antto> i heard u liek innovations
2020-06-23T23:43:52 < Cracki> if that doesn't end in whips and chains I'll be disappointed
2020-06-23T23:44:53 < Cracki> a heart surgeon would see dollar signs in his eyes over this video
--- Day changed Wed Jun 24 2020
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2020-06-24T00:19:11 < kakipump> pump now
2020-06-24T00:19:40 < kakipump> Steffanx: how did you like the musics?
2020-06-24T00:20:05 < Steffanx> I was at work, didn't open it.
2020-06-24T00:20:31 < kakipump> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H9C0jYan8i8
2020-06-24T00:22:04 < Steffanx> not impressed kakipump
2020-06-24T00:22:09 < Steffanx> you can update the venn diagram
2020-06-24T00:22:26 < kakipump> why?
2020-06-24T00:23:22 < kakipump> the overlap area is still with sole title "Pump it up!" or is it?
2020-06-24T00:23:32 < Steffanx> for now, yes
2020-06-24T00:25:44 < kakipump> how do you like vangelis?
2020-06-24T00:26:15 < kakipump> or jean michel jarre?
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2020-06-24T00:28:02 < Steffanx> only some songs.
2020-06-24T00:35:48 < kakipump> aha
2020-06-24T00:36:02 < kakipump> I like only some songs too
2020-06-24T00:40:15 < Steffanx> i used to have https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P_I2ch8_TXc as my wake up alarm.
2020-06-24T00:40:20 < Steffanx> i should do that again
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2020-06-24T02:02:34 < englishman> braindamage: thanks, bought
2020-06-24T02:02:46 < englishman> transistor isn't a bad game but i can't play it more than a few minutes
2020-06-24T02:03:00 < englishman> the tutorial was not useful, i think i have to read about how to play
2020-06-24T02:03:39 < braindamage> ovivo is much more simple, will remind you a lot of the other
2020-06-24T02:07:24 < Mangy_Dog> https://www.therpf.com/forums/attachments/img_20200612_105211616-jpg.1309079/  this is a pcb by another prop maker... hes been doing props since i was a young boy... im not going to say who he is out of respect for them... but HOT damn thats one ugly board design and pcb solder job
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2020-06-24T02:16:34 < qyx> theres a short on the leftmost led
2020-06-24T02:35:12 < Cracki> much hand soldering
2020-06-24T02:35:41 < Cracki> please tell him about solder paste, good flux, and the Tire Fire Method[tm]
2020-06-24T02:36:01 < Cracki> my hand soldered smd stuff looks similar :>
2020-06-24T02:37:51 < Mangy_Dog> qyx yeah
2020-06-24T02:38:17 < Mangy_Dog> i hand solder smd as well sometimes... but i get nice clean blobs
2020-06-24T02:38:22 < Mangy_Dog> usually
2020-06-24T02:38:27 < Mangy_Dog> this is a bit all over the place
2020-06-24T02:38:50 < Mangy_Dog> this guys been doing prop stuff for over 20 years. maybe 30
2020-06-24T02:39:01 < Mangy_Dog> so im kinda shocked
2020-06-24T02:39:19 < Mangy_Dog> also traces unneedidly thin
2020-06-24T02:39:26 < Mangy_Dog> and going all over the place
2020-06-24T02:39:30 < qyx> what is a prop
2020-06-24T02:39:58 < Mangy_Dog> i saw a pcb overview image a little earlier and its just badlly organised traces and unneeded via jumping
2020-06-24T02:40:00 < Cracki> handy object used in theater, movies, tv shows
2020-06-24T02:40:06 < Mangy_Dog> ^^^
2020-06-24T02:40:11 < Ultrasauce> two or more airfoils in a circular arrangement, used in stage or film productions
2020-06-24T02:40:17 < Mangy_Dog> this case this is a voyager relitivity tricorder
2020-06-24T02:40:18 < Cracki> foam "rocks" are props, daggers are props, tricorders are
2020-06-24T02:40:23 < Cracki> oooh
2020-06-24T02:40:26 < Mangy_Dog> ie the thin future tricorder from the episode
2020-06-24T02:41:14 < Cracki> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=507bs6BvlCk
2020-06-24T02:41:31 < Mangy_Dog> yeh that
2020-06-24T02:41:47 < Cracki> different chirping https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_n46CCgOWx4
2020-06-24T02:42:20 < Cracki> all those noises are digital bird song. I'm sure the sound dept thought of these noises as digital birds to give the space men something to listen to
2020-06-24T02:42:27 < Mangy_Dog> ok 1 thing about that videop
2020-06-24T02:42:29 < Mangy_Dog> FUCKING WOW
2020-06-24T02:42:38 < Mangy_Dog> they managed to get an led into the emrg and ID lights
2020-06-24T02:43:05 < Cracki> where?
2020-06-24T02:43:09 < Cracki> looks like all smd to me
2020-06-24T02:43:10 < Mangy_Dog> i have one of those oregon scientific clocks in my draw
2020-06-24T02:43:12 < Mangy_Dog> yeah
2020-06-24T02:43:14 < Mangy_Dog> in the lid
2020-06-24T02:43:18 < Mangy_Dog> thats just a thin peice of plastic
2020-06-24T02:43:22 < Mangy_Dog> no enclosure
2020-06-24T02:43:31 < Mangy_Dog> they slipped an led in there
2020-06-24T02:43:32 < Cracki> oh the LID
2020-06-24T02:43:36 < Mangy_Dog> im impressed
2020-06-24T02:43:44 < Cracki> the lid is fucking thin
2020-06-24T02:43:51 < Mangy_Dog> i kinda wondered ifit was possible in the past
2020-06-24T02:43:53 < Mangy_Dog> it really is
2020-06-24T02:43:59 < Mangy_Dog> 1.5mm thick? maybe
2020-06-24T02:44:01 < Cracki> maybe fiber optics through the hinge
2020-06-24T02:44:17 < Mangy_Dog> na
2020-06-24T02:44:18 < Cracki> <1mm pcb embedded, or plain led with some wires glued in
2020-06-24T02:44:22 < Mangy_Dog> thats an led
2020-06-24T02:44:30 < Mangy_Dog> cant be a plate
2020-06-24T02:44:31 < Cracki> are you sure those leds are leds
2020-06-24T02:44:34 < Mangy_Dog> the thing wont close
2020-06-24T02:44:43 < Cracki> looks static
2020-06-24T02:44:46 < Mangy_Dog> the lid comes pretty flush to the face
2020-06-24T02:44:48 < Cracki> those "leds" in the flap
2020-06-24T02:44:55 < Mangy_Dog> static yes but leds
2020-06-24T02:44:58 < Mangy_Dog> maybe 0402s
2020-06-24T02:45:17 < Cracki> size doesn't matter :>
2020-06-24T02:45:32 < Mangy_Dog> maybe they dremeled a small hole into the lid... placed led filled with epoxy glue and sanded flat
2020-06-24T02:45:47 < Mangy_Dog> thats a reasonable idea actually
2020-06-24T02:45:55 < Cracki> assuming he has wienerwurst for fingers, the lid could be thick enough so it's comfortable to install
2020-06-24T02:46:35 < Cracki> I'd do a mould of the back, with some ribs inside, and the inside is a glued on sticker, with the wires running between ribs
2020-06-24T02:46:52 < Cracki> like cardboard except plastic
2020-06-24T02:47:19 < Cracki> or solid, with trenches for the wires and a pit for the led
2020-06-24T02:47:39 < Mangy_Dog> just messured the lid thickness on mine
2020-06-24T02:47:43 < Mangy_Dog> its 1.5mm thick exsact
2020-06-24T02:47:44 < Cracki> still glued on artwork, of course
2020-06-24T02:47:45 < Mangy_Dog> good guess
2020-06-24T02:49:07 < Cracki> oh, now I get what you meant with alarm clock
2020-06-24T02:49:20 < Cracki> it's literally a gutted alarm clock
2020-06-24T02:49:21 < Mangy_Dog> https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/695271473308237985/725135367350780006/IMG_20200624_004821.jpg
2020-06-24T02:49:26 < Mangy_Dog> yes :D
2020-06-24T02:49:37 < Mangy_Dog> thats mine
2020-06-24T02:49:46 < Mangy_Dog> i have another i made into a tricorder maybe 20 years ago
2020-06-24T02:49:50 < Mangy_Dog> 15+
2020-06-24T02:49:58 < Mangy_Dog> but its kinda tattered
2020-06-24T02:50:01 < Mangy_Dog> i need to rebuild it
2020-06-24T02:50:54 < Mangy_Dog> also before i go to bed
2020-06-24T02:50:55 < Mangy_Dog> https://youtu.be/AjFFNNwBD9Q
2020-06-24T02:51:23 < Mangy_Dog> still waiting for the ssr and thermo, ended up ordering locally... shoudl have turned up today... and now delayed till friday... typical
2020-06-24T02:51:30 < Cracki> lot more hightech than my tirefire
2020-06-24T02:52:19 < Mangy_Dog> :)
2020-06-24T02:52:51 < Mangy_Dog> I like going the extra mile... but damn it feel like masachism sometimes
2020-06-24T02:53:01 < Mangy_Dog> just end up making more worrk for myself
2020-06-24T02:53:04 < Cracki> you're from another time? yes. NO! https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A_uxVjizLEM
2020-06-24T02:53:12 < Mangy_Dog> like my tricorder v2 just sooo over the top for a prop
2020-06-24T02:53:18 < Cracki> whatever keeps the brain moving
2020-06-24T02:53:44 < Cracki> next thing you know the actors want to make phone calls with it
2020-06-24T02:55:26 < Mangy_Dog> :D
2020-06-24T02:59:48 < Mangy_Dog> right bed time for this old dog
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2020-06-24T03:17:01 < Cracki> literal flagellation https://twitter.com/stillgray/status/1275204372738142208
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2020-06-24T03:38:25 < emeb> If anyone here is interested in doing some contract work with STM32 in a product upgrade I've got a line on some work.
2020-06-24T03:39:15 < emeb> I'm too busy to take it on, but they're looking for 20-40hrs/wk and have budget for decent pay rates.
2020-06-24T03:39:41 < emeb> Warning - it's a cleanup job on an existing code base.
2020-06-24T03:45:33 < Cracki> I _might_ (emphasis on might) be curious. literally just firmware? "cleanup" meaning it works but needs refactoring, or it's not performing as desired?
2020-06-24T03:52:16 < emeb> It's a working codebase that was written by someone who didn't know what they were doing. It uses available resources wastefully.
2020-06-24T03:52:46 < englishman> if you use less than all of the available resources, then you are just wasting resources.
2020-06-24T03:54:30 < emeb> well, it's bogging the CPU down and the UI is laggy.
2020-06-24T03:55:06 < emeb> they had another coder come in to clean it up but he quit 1/2-way through and they're looking for someone to finish the job.
2020-06-24T04:00:39 < Cracki> >_> so you're saying it's cursed
2020-06-24T04:01:53 < Cracki> if nobody else bites before their asses catch fire, poke me. I'm ok signing an NDA if they need it but i'd rather take a peek without making any promises
2020-06-24T04:02:06 < Cracki> there's no way for me to say whether I can deal with what they have
2020-06-24T04:03:12 < Cracki> s/promises/promises tied to money/
2020-06-24T04:04:32 < Cracki> last nutjob I did work for money, he got what I promised, he got to inspect the goods, positively wanted to pay me, and later had buyer's remorse. now he's online stalking me and dropping salty remarks whenever he's around.
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2020-06-24T04:20:07 < emeb_mac> yikes
2020-06-24T04:21:10 < Cracki> about fourteen away from the right character there
2020-06-24T04:21:36 < Cracki> he's got a loaded family. maybe they disowned him.
2020-06-24T04:22:49 < Cracki> his boss was close to firing him, which is why he begged me to give him attention. absolutely neurotic.
2020-06-24T04:23:41 < emeb_mac> Cracki: you know anything at all about music tech (MIDI, etc)?
2020-06-24T04:24:10 < Cracki> my retinas once endured the light coming from the wikipedia page for midi
2020-06-24T04:24:27 < emeb_mac> lol. 
2020-06-24T04:24:27 < Cracki> something about ~128 channels, it's all very uart, and... stuff
2020-06-24T04:24:40 < Cracki> I know people do lighting with midi... I think it was midi
2020-06-24T04:24:44 < emeb_mac> well, newer stuff can use USB too
2020-06-24T04:24:56 < Cracki> and there's this firmata stuff, I think that uses a kind of midi too
2020-06-24T04:25:36 < emeb_mac> OK - this guy's looking for folk who are familiar with that kind of stuff.
2020-06-24T04:26:06 < emeb_mac> It's a MIDI keyboard with some built-in music theory for generating chords on the fly.
2020-06-24T04:26:35 < Cracki> public humiliation in school has soured singing for me permanently. audio tech-wise I'd love to have a gadget that shows me a frequency plot and scope view scaled in dBV or something for event tech, checking output levels and whether they clip
2020-06-24T04:26:40 < emeb_mac> so it'd be really helpful if the person working on it had some background in music.
2020-06-24T04:26:57 < Cracki> heh I'll have no idea about actual music theory, I can promise you that
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2020-06-24T04:27:35 < Cracki> best I can say is that octaves are doublings in frequency, and notes are... I think it was 12 divisions of an octave
2020-06-24T04:27:37 < aandrew> Emend what kind of rate are they expecting to pay?
2020-06-24T04:27:50 < aandrew> emeb: ^^
2020-06-24T04:28:18 < emeb_mac> aandrew: not sure. I know that he didn't balk when I quoted him my rate a while back.
2020-06-24T04:29:00 < emeb_mac> but I also know that he negotiated down from that point for another guy that I hooked him up with.
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2020-06-24T04:40:29 < Laurenceb_> https://games.slashdot.org/story/20/06/23/1812206/dozens-of-women-in-gaming-speak-out-about-sexism-and-harassment
2020-06-24T04:40:34 < Laurenceb_> serious business
2020-06-24T04:41:13 < Cracki> what sjw "game journo" has raped children now
2020-06-24T04:41:46 < Laurenceb_> inb4 the return of Brianna Wu
2020-06-24T04:41:51 < Cracki> >on twitch
2020-06-24T04:41:57 < Cracki> twitch is camwhoring
2020-06-24T04:42:15 < Cracki> if they don't like their johns, they can just kick them out
2020-06-24T04:44:05 < Cracki> LOL he says "I'm sorry." already https://twitter.com/SayNoToRage/status/1274418943910961153
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2020-06-24T04:54:09 < strata> woe is me there is so much sexism and harassment when i show my clevage for views
2020-06-24T04:54:56 < strata> i just want people to respect me as a gamer^W^W^Wfor my tits
2020-06-24T04:56:59 < aandrew> lol
2020-06-24T04:57:50 < jly> fucken
2020-06-24T04:57:52 < jly> NUPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPP
2020-06-24T04:58:00 < jly> oh wait i thought this was offtopic rofl
2020-06-24T04:58:06 < dongs> who is this faggot
2020-06-24T04:58:34 < jly> IRC is CANCELLED
2020-06-24T05:26:28 < Cracki> kek https://metro.co.uk/2020/06/23/burnley-fan-who-arranged-white-lives-matter-banner-refuses-apologise-12890013/
2020-06-24T05:29:02 < ds2> emeb: know what toolchain?
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2020-06-24T05:59:22 < dongs> https://nypost.com/2020/06/23/oregon-county-issues-face-mask-order-exempting-non-white-people/ rip ohsix
2020-06-24T06:02:49 < Cracki> everyone is racist, whitey feels bad about it
2020-06-24T06:03:07 -!- strata [~strata@gateway/tor-sasl/xdr] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
2020-06-24T06:03:15 < Cracki> the blood of conquerors still runs in those veins
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2020-06-24T06:04:00 < Cracki> “No person shall intimidate or harass people who do not comply,” except if they're white, then you're allowed to intimidate and harass them
2020-06-24T06:05:12 < Cracki> they should extend this to antifa except mandatory. make the terrorists show their faces
2020-06-24T06:05:45 < Cracki> LOL "garden-variety black" get off my lawn
2020-06-24T06:07:36 < jly> FUCKEN
2020-06-24T06:07:37 < jly> NUP
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2020-06-24T06:16:47 < dongs> https://www.nbcnews.com/pop-culture/celebrity/winona-ryder-says-mel-gibson-once-asked-if-she-was-n1231903 had to google what an "oven dodger" was
2020-06-24T06:18:42 < jly> hmmm yeah nfi
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2020-06-24T06:37:41 < Cracki> did you srsly have to google that
2020-06-24T06:38:24 < Cracki> I won't dare. google will send intelligence agencies after anyone who does
2020-06-24T06:40:52 < Cracki> >Ryder also told The Times that her heritage has affected her ability to secure acting roles as well.
2020-06-24T06:41:08 < Cracki> >getting kicked to the curb by your own kind
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2020-06-24T06:53:27 < chipant> does Neuclo-64 comes with a display ? I am confused that ST product selector shows (https://imgur.com/2yxBSrS) availability of display in the board, whether the data brief page (https://www.st.com/content/st_com/en/products/evaluation-tools/product-evaluation-tools/mcu-mpu-eval-tools/stm32-mcu-mpu-eval-tools/stm32-nucleo-boards/nucleo-f303re.html)  doesn't says anything about display.
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2020-06-24T10:18:44 < jpa-> meh, i never realized    void foo(char *data, uint8_t len) { while (len--) { do_something(*data++); } }  is undefined behavior
2020-06-24T10:21:47 < zyp> undefined how?
2020-06-24T10:28:14 < jadew> I don't see it either
2020-06-24T10:28:18 < jadew> jpa-?
2020-06-24T10:28:46 < mawk> len is unsigned, and it gets to -1 ?
2020-06-24T10:28:57 < jadew> mawk, it becomes 255
2020-06-24T10:28:57 < mawk> or something
2020-06-24T10:29:02 < jadew> but before that, the while fails
2020-06-24T10:29:25 < mawk> yeah
2020-06-24T10:29:34 < jadew> so that's not a problem
2020-06-24T10:29:49 < mawk> undefined behavior that works isn't an apparent problem
2020-06-24T10:30:01 < jadew> there's nothing undefined about it
2020-06-24T10:30:12 < jadew> first the while fails, then len overflows and becomes 255
2020-06-24T10:31:07 < Amun_Ra> and it's technically not an overflow
2020-06-24T10:31:16 < jadew> underflow? :)
2020-06-24T10:31:20 < zyp> the only potential for issue I see is if do_something() is a macro that ends up incrementing data twice or something, but that's not undefined behavior of the shown code
2020-06-24T10:31:42 < Amun_Ra> jadew: wrap around ;)
2020-06-24T10:31:51 < jadew> good to know, thanks
2020-06-24T10:32:05 < jadew> zyp, right, but then while could be a macro too :P
2020-06-24T10:32:15 < Amun_Ra> jadew: standard defines overflow only for signed types :>
2020-06-24T10:32:36 < mawk> that's why every macro should be written like #define A(x) ({ __auto_type _x = (x); /*...*/ })
2020-06-24T10:32:55 < mawk> if you use x several times
2020-06-24T10:33:13 < zyp> Amun_Ra, but it doesn't rely on len overflowing
2020-06-24T10:33:33 < jadew> we were just discussing terminology
2020-06-24T10:34:12 < zyp> the loop terminates at len == 0, and while it's decremented after, the value after is never read, so even if it's undefined, it doesn't matter
2020-06-24T10:34:46 < Thorn> attn zyp https://www.archlinux.org/packages/community/x86_64/arm-none-eabi-gcc/
2020-06-24T10:35:00 < zyp> nice
2020-06-24T10:35:10 < jadew> Amun_Ra, did you mean that wrap arounds are not defined either?
2020-06-24T10:35:10 < zyp> but I don't run arch
2020-06-24T10:35:29 < jadew> or that the standard names "overflow" only what happens to signed types?
2020-06-24T10:35:36 < Thorn> this is the Official Word about gcc 10 https://community.arm.com/developer/tools-software/tools/b/tools-software-ides-blog/posts/making-the-most-of-the-arm-architecture-in-gcc-10
2020-06-24T10:36:20 < jpa-> jadew: yeah
2020-06-24T10:36:32 < jpa-> though actually now that i think of it, with unsigned it is ok
2020-06-24T10:36:35 < zyp> «For those who are wondering how to get GCC10 based toolchain, Arm will release two GCC10 based cross-toolchains before the end of the year 2020»
2020-06-24T10:36:52 < zyp> so yeah, it'll come in november/december like discussed before
2020-06-24T10:36:55 < Thorn> yeah, when 10.2 is released
2020-06-24T10:37:08 < mawk> why not compile yourself
2020-06-24T10:37:09 < jpa-> because even though uint8_t gets promoted to int, the overflow only happens on cast back to uint8_t which should be ok
2020-06-24T10:37:21 < jpa-> i wonder why clang undefined behavior sanitizer has started complaining about that
2020-06-24T10:37:35 < mawk> -fsuper-verbose
2020-06-24T10:37:40 < jadew> jpa-, but like zyp underlined, the while stops at 0
2020-06-24T10:37:45 < Thorn> mawk if it can use libs from gcc 9 distro then why not indeed
2020-06-24T10:37:45 < jadew> the overflow happens afterwards
2020-06-24T10:37:57 < jadew> so it's irrelevant
2020-06-24T10:38:04 < jpa-> jadew: yeah, but that doesn't really matter with undefined behavior - if undefined behavior happens, everything is invalid according to standard
2020-06-24T10:38:05 < mawk> you'll maybe need to compile twice Thorn but that's not an issue
2020-06-24T10:38:23 < jpa-> but the unsigned overflow shouldn't be undefined so not sure what it is complaining about
2020-06-24T10:38:36 < jadew> jpa-, but it's not undefined behaviour that is happening, it's an undefined state
2020-06-24T10:38:40 < mawk> once to get a shady gcc 10 compiled with gcc 9, and another time to get a good gcc 10 compiled using a shady gcc 10
2020-06-24T10:38:43 < jadew> it's no different than saying int i;
2020-06-24T10:38:46 < jpa-> jadew: yeah, it is only implementation defined
2020-06-24T10:38:48 < jadew> i is in an undefined state
2020-06-24T10:38:57 < jpa-> i was misled by clang and didn't think carefully enough
2020-06-24T10:38:58 < jadew> until you use it, you don't have undefined behaviour
2020-06-24T10:39:51 < jadew> also, it's silly that it's undefined
2020-06-24T10:39:54 < jadew> are we sure that's the case?
2020-06-24T10:40:11 < jpa-> jadew: but    int i = INT_MIN; i -= 1;    i think *is* undefined behavior and compiler is free to replace it with abort();
2020-06-24T10:40:19 < jadew> everyone knows that below 0 we get 255, right? :P
2020-06-24T10:40:36 < Thorn> >the GCC project moved to using git for version control in 2020
2020-06-24T10:40:39 < jpa-> i think for unsigned it is fully defined to wrap to 255
2020-06-24T10:40:50 < jadew> I see
2020-06-24T10:41:53 < zyp> the thing is that two's complement is not defined, right?
2020-06-24T10:42:57 < jpa-> zyp: IIRC if int32_t and similar defines exist, they are defined to always be two's complement
2020-06-24T10:43:03 < jpa-> but overflowing them is not defined
2020-06-24T10:43:52 < mawk> for unsigned it's always defined
2020-06-24T10:50:10 < Amun_Ra> jadew: wraps are defined for unsigned and it's defined behavior
2020-06-24T10:56:05 < jadew> man... I don't know how to process the fact that people are buying shit like this: https://www.ebay.com/itm/Bias-T-Bias-Tee-1MHz-2Ghz-Active-Antenna-Bias-SDR-GPS-FOR-Ham-Radio-Amplifie/183762123850
2020-06-24T11:01:18 < Thorn> what is this, RF to USB adapter?
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2020-06-24T11:08:50 < kvlxoxo> Thorn, it's something that can pass both dc and ac power
2020-06-24T11:09:45 < kvlxoxo> Anyway, what I was saying before getting disconnected is that I think people have gotten used to trash
2020-06-24T11:10:46 < kvlxoxo> Because proper bias tees are getting overlooked
2020-06-24T11:11:42 < kvlxoxo> I have to call my ISP
2020-06-24T11:14:43 < Thorn> is this a good enough SDR frontend? 13 bit i/q https://www.microchip.com/wwwproducts/en/AT86RF215
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2020-06-24T11:34:47 < kvlxoxo> Don't know
2020-06-24T11:36:24 < kvlxoxo> Can you take the I/Q data out?
2020-06-24T11:37:21 < Thorn> kvlxoxo yes, over LVDS (64 Mbit DDR, 16 bit samples @ 4 MHz)
2020-06-24T11:37:47 < Thorn> so looks like it will require a zynq
2020-06-24T11:38:59 < kvlxoxo> What's the tuning range?
2020-06-24T11:39:56 < kvlxoxo> You want to make a SDR or is this for a particular application?
2020-06-24T11:40:19 < Thorn> 2 independent frontends in the chip, one is 2.4, another is sub-1 GHz, covers 389.5-510MHz and 779-1020MHz
2020-06-24T11:42:09 < Thorn> I want a SDR that works with single chip fsk/psk transceivers like si4463, sx1231, sx1276, ....
2020-06-24T11:43:36 < kvlxoxo> And you want to decode that in hw?
2020-06-24T11:44:33 < kvlxoxo> Rtl sdr covers that range btw 
2020-06-24T11:44:43 < Thorn> not necessarily
2020-06-24T11:45:29 < kvlxoxo> Then why not use a cheap SDR?
2020-06-24T11:46:07 < kvlxoxo> 4 hours internet outage...
2020-06-24T11:47:30 < qyx> Thorn: iirc silabs had some sub-1GHz SDR AFE, semtech too
2020-06-24T11:47:40 < qyx> AFE with ADC actually
2020-06-24T11:47:42 < qyx> for that purpose
2020-06-24T11:47:50 < qyx> did you check?
2020-06-24T11:48:07 < qyx> it is possible we did talk about it already
2020-06-24T11:51:04 < Thorn> semtech has sx125x https://www.semtech.com/products/wireless-rf/lora-gateways
2020-06-24T11:56:23 < kvlxoxo> https://i.imgur.com/2oH8rol.jpg
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2020-06-24T12:14:47 < jadew> yey, internet
2020-06-24T12:15:35 < jadew> funny, I realized it was back on because I got a new e-mail with the subject "Good News!" and that's what showed up in the notification
2020-06-24T12:22:43 < Cracki> Thorn, that arm.com page for gcc 10.1, the SVE assembly... do I read it right in that it's doing an 8 byte stride (lsl 3), so given double floats, this isn't vector at all?
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2020-06-24T12:54:47 < Cracki> they call it "scalable" yet the shift is fixed to the assembly. I'd have thought they'd actually have some vector processing that has impldef vector widths but guess not
2020-06-24T12:57:15 < Thorn> Cracki dunno I haven't looked at that stuff at all
2020-06-24T12:57:55 < Thorn> how do you convert say 12-bit, 2 MHz samples to 1 bit, 36 MHz? because that's what the DAC in sx125x expects
2020-06-24T12:58:04 < Cracki> long ago I heard that RV possibly has variable width vector instructions. eh. guess ARM aren't that daring.
2020-06-24T12:58:19 < Cracki> uh, you mean Pulse Density Modulation?
2020-06-24T12:58:28 < Cracki> you'll find that in DSP books
2020-06-24T13:03:59 < Thorn> I don't know if 1 bit == PDM in this case
2020-06-24T13:04:43 < Cracki> I'd say it's likely
2020-06-24T13:05:00 < Cracki> unless datasheet (or appnotes) has anything illuminating to say
2020-06-24T13:06:47 < Cracki> or is that 1-bit thing one of I/Q? then it does... 4-QAM or something?
2020-06-24T13:09:17 < Cracki> in the sx1257 I see a 36 mhz xo, nothing on "1-bit 36 MHz" so far
2020-06-24T13:09:43 < Cracki> ah, 3.5.1 DACs, >The TX DAC is the first block of the SX1257 transmitter. It accepts the 1-bit I and Q noise shaped 32 Msample/second or 36 MSample/second bit-stream from the baseband processor and converts into two analog differential signals
2020-06-24T13:10:42 < Cracki> they talk about FIR, PDM getting more probable
2020-06-24T13:17:23 < Cracki> the rx part of the block diagram says sigma delta adc
2020-06-24T13:17:33 < Cracki> pretty sure that means "PDM" in some shape
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2020-06-24T13:22:38 < qyx> for RX you could probably use the DFSDM peripheral
2020-06-24T13:22:51 < qyx> or how is it called on L4 series
2020-06-24T13:25:19 < Cracki> my suggestion for a dumb conversion (untested): uint32_t pcm2pdm(uint16_t sample12) { uint32_t result = 0; uint16_t error = 0; for (uint8_t k = 0; k < 32; k += 1) { error += sample12; bool quant = (error >= 2048); error -= quant << 12; result |= quant; result <<= 1; } return result; }
2020-06-24T13:25:40 < Cracki> basically integrate and subtract 1-bit quantization
2020-06-24T13:27:06 < Cracki> bool quant = (error >> 11); more elegant. is always 0 or 1 too
2020-06-24T13:27:47 < Cracki> hm wait, better do that signed :S
2020-06-24T13:31:25 < Cracki> anyway, this *should* carry the error/sum over to following samples
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2020-06-24T14:48:06 < Thorn> what is the max frequency for RG-174? some sources say 1 GHz while others say 3 GHz
2020-06-24T15:03:47 < fenugrec> Thorn, it's not a sharp cutoff... how much loss can you tolerate. You need to look up a loss chart
2020-06-24T15:04:05 < jadew> also, depends where you buy it from
2020-06-24T15:04:12 < jadew> some cable is shit
2020-06-24T15:04:22 < Thorn> those are also all different for the same part#
2020-06-24T15:04:30 < Thorn> jadew aliexpress lol
2020-06-24T15:05:32 < jadew> then it's a gamble, but 2-3 GHz is not much for most cables
2020-06-24T15:06:07 < jadew> *some cables are
2020-06-24T15:06:34 < jadew> if you want something reliable, buy one with a datasheet
2020-06-24T15:06:53 < jadew> then you can calculate your losses based on the specified worst case
2020-06-24T15:07:34 < Thorn> https://aliexpress.com/item/32860537742.html. this one seems to have a datasheet
2020-06-24T15:08:55 < Thorn> it's pretty crumpled though lol
2020-06-24T15:14:14 < jadew> looks decent
2020-06-24T15:14:23 < jadew> (from the datasheet)
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2020-06-24T15:20:57 < jadew> from the picture tho, it almost looks like that shield is not braided
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2020-06-24T15:51:55 < Cracki> could be a very slow braid maybe
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2020-06-24T18:29:01 < mawk> red alert Steffanx 
2020-06-24T18:29:12 < mawk> my boss found out I'm sleeping all day
2020-06-24T18:29:19 < mawk> he looked at my number of commits for the last 2 weeks
2020-06-24T18:29:21 < mawk> which is 1 or 2
2020-06-24T18:29:35 < mawk> compared to usually 100
2020-06-24T18:30:45 < mawk> or 200
2020-06-24T18:33:04 < aandrew> lol mawk 
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2020-06-24T18:40:18 < Steffanx> Lolol mawk
2020-06-24T18:40:36 < Steffanx> So what now mr mawk 
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2020-06-24T18:49:50 < PaulFertser> Sometimes a one-liner can take a week or two of fair work.
2020-06-24T18:50:44 < mawk> nothing Steffanx 
2020-06-24T18:50:51 < mawk> I said "it won't happen again"
2020-06-24T18:50:56 < mawk> but now I have to work
2020-06-24T18:51:07 < jadew> I once got a call from my boss (while sleeping at work), about some issue
2020-06-24T18:51:23 < jadew> I answer, trying to pretend I'm fresh, but I was sure there was something off with my voice
2020-06-24T18:51:29 < mawk> lol
2020-06-24T18:51:55 < jadew> then he sends me a link over the messaging app and my super loud notification sound starts ringing like an alarm clock
2020-06-24T18:52:02 < jadew> (while on the phone)
2020-06-24T18:52:33 < jadew> I had to pause from talking until the notification finished playing
2020-06-24T18:52:39 < jadew> that's how loud it was lol
2020-06-24T18:53:45 < jadew> there's another one that happened to a colleague of mine - also in a remote situation
2020-06-24T18:54:23 < jadew> he was playing an online game and midway through the work hours he copies and sends to our boss a chunk of text from the game
2020-06-24T18:55:06 < mawk> lol
2020-06-24T18:55:08 < jadew> it was the stats I think "You have 20 blue runes. 30 red" etc
2020-06-24T18:56:21 < jadew> oh, I have a better one
2020-06-24T18:57:08 < jadew> my boss is at my place, we're discussing something, then I start working on something and I forget he's there, so I start up Stargate SG-1
2020-06-24T18:57:24 < mawk> nice
2020-06-24T18:58:07 < PaulFertser> I used to sleep at my work place quite often, right in the office chair, especially after lunch. My boss was in the same room and was sometimes doing the same. I think sometimes people were walking into our room to see both of us sleeping, and leave :)
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2020-06-24T18:59:56 < jadew> being human is fun
2020-06-24T19:00:43 < jadew> despite all the sleeping and slacking, I still had the highest yield
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2020-06-24T19:23:14 < Steffanx> Perhaps being non-human is waaaay more fun, jadew
2020-06-24T19:29:00 < mawk> cut the racism Steffanx 
2020-06-24T19:29:05 < mawk> or I call the ADL
2020-06-24T19:29:17 < Steffanx> idk what racism is
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2020-06-24T19:36:41 < PaulFertser> Steffanx: have you watched "Appleseed"?
2020-06-24T19:41:39 < Steffanx> looks like the real jappy anime.. ?
2020-06-24T19:43:18 < PaulFertser> Steffanx: yes, but it's a feature film, not your typical series.
2020-06-24T19:45:51 < Steffanx> but no, not seen it
2020-06-24T19:47:41 < PaulFertser> It's related to your "being non-human" remark.
2020-06-24T19:50:38 < Steffanx> lol ok
2020-06-24T20:00:37 < Thorn> another trust inspiring aliexpress store name: Good Luck Technology
2020-06-24T20:03:21 < Laurenceb> incel phenotype
2020-06-24T20:09:35 < jadew> Thorn, what are they selling? power electronics?
2020-06-24T20:10:08 < Thorn> the best name in power electronics oscar goes to Mean Well
2020-06-24T20:10:18 < jadew> hehe
2020-06-24T20:10:20 < Thorn> that one sells coax cables
2020-06-24T20:11:30 < jadew> I actually bought some really good 402 cable from aliexpress, but I think it was a fluke
2020-06-24T20:11:51 < jadew> works well to 20 GHz, very little loss, good phase stability
2020-06-24T20:12:00 < Thorn> semi-rigid is expensive
2020-06-24T20:12:35 < Thorn> I want to get this one instead of that rg174 https://aliexpress.com/item/32861966212.html
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2020-06-24T20:14:08 < jadew> non solid center conductor?
2020-06-24T20:14:26 < jadew> where do you find these cables? :D
2020-06-24T20:14:55 < braindamage> i have a bunch of 30cm patch semirigid cables, I call them 1dB cables
2020-06-24T20:15:14 < braindamage> because they lose 1dB end to end at 16GHz
2020-06-24T20:15:21 < braindamage> inc the connectors
2020-06-24T20:15:31 < jadew> braindamage, sounds consistent with what I've measured
2020-06-24T20:15:44 < jadew> mine are about 0.5 - 0.6 dB at 10 GHz IIRC
2020-06-24T20:15:57 < jadew> (also 30 cm)
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2020-06-24T20:16:45 < jadew> the connectors are more important than the cables tho
2020-06-24T20:17:11 < braindamage> do you use a torque wrench?
2020-06-24T20:17:15 < jadew> yeah
2020-06-24T20:17:22 < Thorn> jadew rg174 also has stranded center wire
2020-06-24T20:17:26 < braindamage> I just use my hands and look at the reflection measurements
2020-06-24T20:17:33 < jadew> not always tho, just when I care about accuracy a lot
2020-06-24T20:18:29 < jadew> braindamage, just recently I threw a load in the trash because it was behaving properly when tighten by hand, but was behaving like an open when tightened with the torque wrench
2020-06-24T20:18:44 < braindamage> o_O
2020-06-24T20:19:03 < jadew> I assume something inside was not making contact anymore
2020-06-24T20:20:10 < jadew> but I discovered that in the same way you're describing - at first I thought there's something wrong with the connector saver
2020-06-24T20:21:21 < jadew> Thorn, all the cables I made had a solid center conductor
2020-06-24T20:21:58 < Thorn> is it very important at 2.4GHz and sub-1 GHz?
2020-06-24T20:22:04 < braindamage> if you get a stranded center it means crimp only
2020-06-24T20:22:14 < braindamage> no
2020-06-24T20:22:49 < jadew> yeah, I don't think it has a big effect on frequency response, but it's going to be slightly more difficult to solder I guess
2020-06-24T20:23:54 < Thorn> crimp connectors for these cables have center pin with a special hole so that you can solder it https://www.l-com.com/Images/Downloadables/2D/ASM-1102_2D.pdf
2020-06-24T20:24:58 < jadew> are these for your own use?
2020-06-24T20:25:02 < braindamage> yeah, I've tried, it's a pain
2020-06-24T20:25:14 < Thorn> yes jadew 
2020-06-24T20:25:23 < jadew> then don't skimp too much on price
2020-06-24T20:25:37 < jadew> shitty cables are a PITA
2020-06-24T20:26:08 < jadew> you can end up wasting hours because of a bad result
2020-06-24T20:27:51 < braindamage> not hours, but I def had plenty of frustration soldering shitty coax
2020-06-24T20:28:06 < jadew> no, I mean when using them
2020-06-24T20:28:35 < jadew> if you want reliable stuff, you need good cables and good connectors
2020-06-24T20:28:45 < jadew> connectors are going to be a shock
2020-06-24T20:29:03 < jadew> the cheap ones from china peal off
2020-06-24T20:29:12 < jadew> and they destroy themselves and other connectors in the process
2020-06-24T20:34:05 < PaulFertser> Does anyone has experience with IKEA Ryet 600 lm E27 lamps? I disassembled two of the failed ones and it seems that's due to LED overheating, and there's no thermal paste between the LED PCB and bulk of metal.
2020-06-24T20:35:02 < jadew> they're the same price as Philips ones in here, so I'm buying Philips
2020-06-24T20:35:11 < jadew> haven't had one of those fail yet
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2020-06-24T20:39:02 < PaulFertser> I think I had one philips fail, but I'm not sure what exactly happened to it, haven't inspected it properly.
2020-06-24T20:42:59 < Cracki> 8 amps on 70 um copper gives me ~7 mm wide traces. saw high current boards use solder on traces for added thickness. good idea?
2020-06-24T20:44:32 < jpa-> if you really need to, but with suitable layout you can just slap a big polygon
2020-06-24T20:45:18 < Cracki> planning to use one of those "atx12v" connectors for 12v power. I guess I can do big fat polygons up until it all fans out
2020-06-24T20:46:19 < Cracki> thx for assessment
2020-06-24T20:47:59 < PaulFertser> I've seen mass-produced PCBs like that too, looked like high-current traces were simply unmasked. So it's basically free, so why not?
2020-06-24T20:49:18 < Thorn> Cracki iirc Dave said that solder adds little conductance compared to copper
2020-06-24T20:49:19 < Cracki> I guess so long as it's not high voltage and tinned wire ends in screw terminals, it should be good
2020-06-24T20:49:25 < Cracki> hm ok
2020-06-24T20:49:58 < Cracki> nature.com says "The electrical conductivity of soft and hard solders is considerably less than that of copper, varying with composition between approximately 9 percent and 13 percent for soft solders and 20 percent and 40 percent for silver solders."
2020-06-24T20:50:29 < Cracki> so 70 um copper ~ 0.7mm solder
2020-06-24T20:50:52 < Cracki> that is indeed awful but hey it's free :D
2020-06-24T20:51:19 < Cracki> published 1942, I'll have to check those facts https://www.nature.com/articles/150371b0#:~:text=The%20electrical%20conductivity%20of%20soft,40%20percent%20for%20silver%20solders.
2020-06-24T20:51:23 < PaulFertser> What would be the solder thickness with the standard process?
2020-06-24T20:51:33 < Cracki> "standard process"?
2020-06-24T20:52:27 < PaulFertser> Well, I guess there's some most common/cheap PCBA way and it'll give certain solder thickness.
2020-06-24T20:52:35 < jpa-> PaulFertser: one can control it by size of holes in the solder stencil
2020-06-24T20:52:46 < jpa-> unless you mean by wave soldering, in which case answer is "thick" ;)
2020-06-24T20:52:50 < Cracki> I'm considering 8 amps through traces. the solder joints i don't really care about, they're negligible
2020-06-24T20:53:28 < Cracki> as for assembly, nah I don't think a stencil would leave enough solder. those are what, 0.1mm thick?
2020-06-24T20:53:44 < Cracki> now wave soldering yes
2020-06-24T20:53:52 < PaulFertser> jpa-: I guess what I've seen looked much like a wave soldering result.
2020-06-24T20:54:16 < jadew> Cracki, you should check more PCB houses, some can do really thick copper traces
2020-06-24T20:54:36 < Cracki> I'm a cheapskate, I stick with jlc and they do 2oz max on outer layers
2020-06-24T20:55:09 < Cracki> maybe I'll bare the traces, put some tinned copper wire on it, and solder that to it
2020-06-24T20:55:23 < Cracki> I have some single strand 1mm or something
2020-06-24T20:55:25 < jpa-> the 7mm looks like what it would be for 10°C temperature rise, can't you just let it heat more?
2020-06-24T20:55:44 < Cracki> yes 10C rise. 20C rise gave me 4-5 mm
2020-06-24T20:55:53 < Cracki> so, a little better
2020-06-24T20:56:15 < jadew> pcbcart would do 4 oz copper 10x10cm @ ~$5/board
2020-06-24T20:56:23 < Cracki> huh
2020-06-24T20:56:28 < Cracki> *bookmark*
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2020-06-24T20:57:20 < Cracki> wew 35..525 um
2020-06-24T20:58:06 < Cracki> 5 bucks a board at what quantity. it's quoting me 86 yankeebucks for nothing special
2020-06-24T20:58:23 < Cracki> unit price goes down for more than a single board
2020-06-24T20:59:22 < jadew> 10 boards, according to pcbshopper
2020-06-24T20:59:28 < Cracki> ic
2020-06-24T20:59:29 < jadew> pcbway is also on the list
2020-06-24T20:59:45 < Cracki> ah yes 10 boards 6/board with 32 tooling cost
2020-06-24T21:00:17 < jadew> they're saying $220 total, shipping included, I guess the quote is wrong
2020-06-24T21:00:58 < jadew> see http://pcbjoint.com/SimpleQuote.aspx
2020-06-24T21:00:59 < Cracki> 2oz gives significantly cheaper prices
2020-06-24T21:01:41 < Cracki> eh it's for dicking around anyway. best that can happen, learning-wise, is my home catches fire.
2020-06-24T21:02:59 < jadew> the last one actually quotes reasonable prices
2020-06-24T21:03:09 < jadew> $183 was the quote I got directly from their website
2020-06-24T21:04:23 < Cracki> pcbjoint for 50x100mm 5pc 4oz still gives 129 euros and I don't know if DHL will rob me
2020-06-24T21:04:40 < jadew> put 10 pcs
2020-06-24T21:04:59 < jadew> for me it was 183 for 10
2020-06-24T21:05:00 < Cracki> I need at most 1 so 10 pc will only make the total price go up :D
2020-06-24T21:05:09 < jadew> ah, hehe
2020-06-24T21:05:52 < Cracki> hm well 2 maybe, if I want to pass the gift of smoking ruins to a friend
2020-06-24T21:07:43 < Cracki> I think I'll make script for my irc client that gives me the fancy unicode math symbols... I can actually hook key presses too
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2020-06-24T21:16:54 < antto> https://i.imgur.com/bnbbvxU.png
2020-06-24T21:17:41 < srk> λ
2020-06-24T21:17:42 < aandrew> antto: wtf
2020-06-24T21:17:54 < antto> >:)
2020-06-24T21:17:56 < jpa-> Cracki: why not just put the math symbols in your keyboard layout behind altgr and similar combinations
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2020-06-24T21:19:01 < antto> i'll give a virtual cookie to the first one to guess wut this does
2020-06-24T21:19:13 < Thorn> just use a mac: Ω√∫µß∂∆˚ etc. are available with alt
2020-06-24T21:19:38 < Thorn> antto lets PHP programmers brag about making a PCB
2020-06-24T21:19:47 < antto> nope
2020-06-24T21:20:00 < jadew> keeps something straight
2020-06-24T21:20:08 < jadew> or attached
2020-06-24T21:20:18 < antto> nope
2020-06-24T21:20:26 < jadew> it's a wire
2020-06-24T21:20:34 < antto> a wat
2020-06-24T21:20:39 < jadew> the whole thing is a wire
2020-06-24T21:20:49  * antto puts sugar powder on tha cookie
2020-06-24T21:20:52 < antto> nope
2020-06-24T21:21:27 < jadew> all pads are connected between each other - does it perform an electrical function at all?
2020-06-24T21:21:34 < jadew> or it's purely mechanical?
2020-06-24T21:21:42 < jadew> foot rub device?
2020-06-24T21:21:44 < antto> more like it's mechanical
2020-06-24T21:21:54 < antto> jadew you're getting somewhere
2020-06-24T21:22:12 < antto> <cookie_intensifies.jpg>
2020-06-24T21:22:26 < jadew> well, it can either keep something together
2020-06-24T21:22:35 < jadew> or it's just a trap, for people to step into
2020-06-24T21:22:43 < jadew> you tin the pins with leaded solder and you're set
2020-06-24T21:22:48 < Cracki> jpa-, I could do that but I'll never see them on the keyboard AND it would mean learning two sets of ways (latex, altgr) to generate those things
2020-06-24T21:23:10 < antto> it's not for keeping anything together, nor a trap
2020-06-24T21:23:40 < Cracki> antto, it's a zen garden brush for CEOs
2020-06-24T21:24:05 < antto> very close.. but still nope
2020-06-24T21:24:18 < Cracki> intra-uterine device
2020-06-24T21:24:30 < antto> wat o_O
2020-06-24T21:24:32 < antto> no
2020-06-24T21:24:55 < Cracki> https://www.msdmanuals.cn/-/media/manual/home/images/gyn_iuds.gif?la=en&thn=0
2020-06-24T21:25:10 < antto> dafuq
2020-06-24T21:25:18 < antto> okay, Cracki wins, it's a "brush"
2020-06-24T21:25:21 < Cracki> lol
2020-06-24T21:25:25 < antto> for ze evil white cat
2020-06-24T21:25:36 < jpa-> why two ends?
2020-06-24T21:25:38 < Cracki> why would you need two beds of nails on a brush
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2020-06-24T21:25:58 < antto> jpa- depending on how she's positioned
2020-06-24T21:26:15 < antto> i cannot have control over that
2020-06-24T21:26:33 < antto> i sneak in when she's in uber lazy mode and carefully brush her
2020-06-24T21:26:41 < Cracki> >_>
2020-06-24T21:26:53 < Cracki> humans haven't come up with a good substitute for a cat tongue
2020-06-24T21:26:56 < antto> and she still gets insta-mad sometimes
2020-06-24T21:26:58 < Cracki> it's wet but also brushy
2020-06-24T21:27:11 < antto> nah, doesn't need to be wet
2020-06-24T21:27:18 < Cracki> a washing cloth isn't brushy enough
2020-06-24T21:27:28 < antto> i'm not gonna "clean" her, just get rid of the hair that's gonna fall anyway
2020-06-24T21:27:48 < Cracki> wat length pins u gonna use? normal or shorter?
2020-06-24T21:28:13 < antto> i already have sumfin i put together here that has the same properties (4 rows of 2.54mm headers) and it wurkz gud
2020-06-24T21:28:18 < Cracki> ic
2020-06-24T21:28:20 < antto> it's just not convenient to hold
2020-06-24T21:28:29 < Cracki> I have some perfboard I could turn into something brushlike
2020-06-24T21:28:34 < antto> thus this looks moar like a brush shape, plus has two angles
2020-06-24T21:29:10 < Cracki> you can take 2 boards on top for added thickness
2020-06-24T21:30:14 < antto> i probably won't need that, but imma probably use an extra unpopulated board to put over the headers so that their length is lower, then brush brush brush, then separate the boards to release teh hair
2020-06-24T21:30:46 < antto> i'll see wut wurkz
2020-06-24T21:31:00 < antto> i woz also thinking of going for a finer pitch but.. meh
2020-06-24T21:31:25 < Cracki> good idea
2020-06-24T21:31:51 < antto> https://i.imgur.com/2E9Hv6t.jpg
2020-06-24T21:32:50 < Cracki> very pure
2020-06-24T21:41:47 < mawk> my spider is dying
2020-06-24T21:42:10 < catphish> :(
2020-06-24T21:42:11 < Steffanx> Awh
2020-06-24T21:42:26 < Steffanx> Coronizzled?
2020-06-24T21:42:31 < Steffanx> Or the awful Dutch temps
2020-06-24T21:45:19 < mawk> the temperature probably
2020-06-24T21:45:26 < mawk> but I don't know
2020-06-24T21:45:35 < mawk> she's supposed to like high temp
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2020-06-24T21:50:06 < antto> "she" x_x
2020-06-24T21:50:27 < antto> <nope.gif>
2020-06-24T21:53:55 < mawk> it's a female
2020-06-24T21:53:57 < mawk> very cute
2020-06-24T21:57:18 < mawk> I'll bury her when she expiates
2020-06-24T21:57:23 < mawk> along her sister
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2020-06-24T22:01:00 < catphish> what is she?
2020-06-24T22:01:41 < Cracki> Σₜ₌₀¹⁰
2020-06-24T22:02:13 < mawk> a phiddipus regius spider
2020-06-24T22:02:18 < mawk> aka the cutest spider
2020-06-24T22:02:35 < mawk> the spider in "luca the spider" yt videos
2020-06-24T22:08:57 < mawk> I made a hexchat plugin to write latex Cracki 
2020-06-24T22:09:01 < mawk> that outputs unicode
2020-06-24T22:09:06 < mawk> but I lost it
2020-06-24T22:13:58 -!- Streaker [~Streaker@unaffiliated/streaker] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer]
2020-06-24T22:18:15 < Cracki> heh
2020-06-24T22:18:55 < Cracki> I'll be content with normal greek letters for now. I looked at subscript and superscript... they don't even have all the letters!
2020-06-24T22:19:15 < Cracki> and superscript 1,2,3 are in a different sequence from the rest, and _not_ duplicated there
2020-06-24T22:20:51 < PaulFertser> New interesting multi-master multi-media network protocol https://github.com/gioblu/PJON/ . Seems to be kinda interesting.
2020-06-24T22:24:13 < Cracki> ambitious
2020-06-24T22:24:39 < Cracki> looks like osi layer 9 *woosh*
2020-06-24T22:26:15 < Cracki> buy now! the LIMITED EDITION handbook https://www.pjon.org/
2020-06-24T22:26:51 < Cracki> seven specifications, all at various versions
2020-06-24T22:27:02 < effractur> that stuff is developed complete outside the normal proccess for protocols so i don't see any adoption soon
2020-06-24T22:27:12 < effractur> PJON(R)
2020-06-24T22:27:33 < PaulFertser> Was protobuf following the normal process?
2020-06-24T22:27:51 < effractur> protobuf is just serializin
2020-06-24T22:27:54 < effractur> no protocol
2020-06-24T22:27:56 < Cracki> no but _many_ people that supposedly know what they're doing were doing it for a _big_ commercial customer
2020-06-24T22:27:58 < PaulFertser> Sure
2020-06-24T22:28:08 < Cracki> i.e. google for itself
2020-06-24T22:28:23 < effractur> and indeed google forced it on all android devs sortof
2020-06-24T22:28:37 < PaulFertser> But there's standartisation process for formats too. And there was already the standard serialisation specification format.
2020-06-24T22:29:04 < effractur> but i mean if you design a new layer2/layer3 and you want adoption inside chips
2020-06-24T22:29:16 < effractur> you need or build the chips your self or follow an open standard
2020-06-24T22:29:44 < PaulFertser> They say it's all working nicely in software so need for special peripherals :)
2020-06-24T22:29:47 < PaulFertser> so no need
2020-06-24T22:30:00 < Cracki> it's arduino grade, if course it's all bitbanged
2020-06-24T22:30:18 < Cracki> I don't trust it. too much effort into looking presentable.
2020-06-24T22:30:18 < effractur> ah you ofcourse they don't care a about power usage
2020-06-24T22:30:24 < PaulFertser> I'm not so sure it's arduino grade, probably they mentioned it early just for the hype?
2020-06-24T22:30:43 < Cracki> try to parse this https://www.pjon.org/PJON-protocol-specification-v3.2.php
2020-06-24T22:30:57 < Cracki> it's someone's first "architecture"
2020-06-24T22:31:07 < Cracki> does everything. is perfect.
2020-06-24T22:31:12 < effractur> if he wrote it like an rfc it would have been a lot more readable
2020-06-24T22:31:25 < effractur> this is horrible
2020-06-24T22:31:40 < PaulFertser> Invented! :))
2020-06-24T22:32:00 < Cracki> I can deal with the mix of ascii art and text. I can't deal with the lack of concrete specifics that show that this actually does anything
2020-06-24T22:32:13 < Cracki> he's just hypothesizing busses there
2020-06-24T22:33:16 < Cracki> header bitmap. he spent eight bits on options and he uses them all.
2020-06-24T22:33:32 < Cracki> an option is crc or not. another option is "have a port" or not.
2020-06-24T22:33:48 < Cracki> lots of moving parts
2020-06-24T22:34:24 < effractur> and i mean for wireless links you already have babel
2020-06-24T22:34:46 < effractur> and i cant find where he solves the collision problem
2020-06-24T22:35:03 < Cracki> that limited edition handbook contains a Compact Disc Read-Only Memory
2020-06-24T22:35:16 < Cracki> it's a ploy to make money
2020-06-24T22:35:57 < Cracki> >channel analysis, transmission and optional response. In the channel analysis phase the medium's state is assessed before starting transmission to avoid collision.
2020-06-24T22:36:02 < Cracki> so it's a carrier sense
2020-06-24T22:36:26 < Cracki> indeed, he doesn't say what happens if two nodes sense free and start jabbering over each other
2020-06-24T22:36:56 < effractur> but nothing about the backing of etc
2020-06-24T22:37:17 < Cracki> apparent scam
2020-06-24T22:37:23 < Cracki> does this have a dickstarter
2020-06-24T22:38:06 < PaulFertser> Selling those books is rather odd :/
2020-06-24T22:39:38 < effractur> well they got 50k of invesment
2020-06-24T22:40:49 < Cracki> he needs 50k to avoid his legs getting broken, the rest is for cocaine and hookers
2020-06-24T22:42:01 < effractur> ah they do exponential backing off 
2020-06-24T22:42:05 < effractur> somewhere in there codebase
2020-06-24T22:42:12 < effractur> and they wait for an ack
2020-06-24T22:42:43 < PaulFertser> "a boy's game appeared on many relevant websites and blogs where many trolls, raging, were wondering who was this italian guy without a PhD from MIT"
2020-06-24T22:44:20 < effractur> tbh he does have a protcol thingy that runs on almost everything
2020-06-24T22:44:22 < effractur> so that is somewhat nice
2020-06-24T22:45:54 < Cracki> a rerun of systemd. shit pushed on sheeple.
2020-06-24T22:46:12 < Cracki> people love php, ruby, go, ...
2020-06-24T22:47:09 < PaulFertser> btw, surprisingly systemd didn't give me any trouble yet
2020-06-24T22:48:44 < strata> php, ruby, go
2020-06-24T22:48:45 < strata> in that order!
2020-06-24T22:49:32 < effractur> go is just there because google could not hire enough good c++ programmers
2020-06-24T22:50:33 < benishor> go is actually pretty good for its job
2020-06-24T22:50:46 < strata> yea it has created a whole industry of "cloud people"
2020-06-24T22:50:51 < benishor> go is a google solution built for solving google problems
2020-06-24T22:51:05 < benishor> php.. is that even a thing anymore?
2020-06-24T22:51:10 < benishor> ruby is for the hipster fucks
2020-06-24T22:51:13 < benishor> smarty pants 
2020-06-24T22:51:19 < benishor> which is not even getting traction anymore
2020-06-24T22:51:30 < benishor> rust is the new black
2020-06-24T22:51:33 < strata> what's the best language for webshits then?
2020-06-24T22:51:42 < benishor> best language for webshits? why js of course
2020-06-24T22:51:46 < strata> for backends, specifically.
2020-06-24T22:51:48 < effractur> python with some js stuff
2020-06-24T22:51:49 < strata> js too?
2020-06-24T22:51:50 < benishor> node
2020-06-24T22:52:06 < benishor> depends on what you want to do but node has kinda taken over
2020-06-24T22:52:25 < strata> i'm not in the world of webshit even tho i am fullstacking for a paycheck now
2020-06-24T22:52:31 < strata> i use what i want
2020-06-24T22:52:37 < effractur> but yea we are stuck with swift because of ibm/apple, go for google an rust mozzila en microsoft
2020-06-24T22:52:41 < strata> which ended up being django + vuejs
2020-06-24T22:52:46 < benishor> enterprise still clangs to java but with all the microservice craze things start to be broken into smaller units which invite the use of other languages
2020-06-24T22:53:09 < effractur> i mean the JVM is still a good option
2020-06-24T22:53:12 < benishor> clings, not clangs
2020-06-24T22:53:15 < strata> i think microsoft will buy rust soon
2020-06-24T22:53:20 < benishor> the jvm is pretty good
2020-06-24T22:53:28 < effractur> if you pair it with for example Jruby or Kothlin/scala
2020-06-24T22:53:36 < strata> lol @kotlin
2020-06-24T22:53:40 < PaulFertser> You know Flask (one of the most popular Python backend frameworks) was created as an April Fool's joke?
2020-06-24T22:53:46 < effractur> PaulFertser: yes
2020-06-24T22:53:50 < strata> PaulFertser: no i did not know that
2020-06-24T22:53:53 < benishor> kotlin was the new less verbose java but I'm not sure it got very far
2020-06-24T22:53:59 < benishor> it's been pushed on android though
2020-06-24T22:54:12 < effractur> it is the default on android for new stuff
2020-06-24T22:54:21 < effractur> but scala is somewhat more sensible
2020-06-24T22:54:46 < strata> flask was what took my python from sysadmin and radio programming bullshit to building web applications. but i use django now because i'm lazy.
2020-06-24T22:55:12 < effractur> django is nice if you just want some basic CRUD stuff
2020-06-24T22:55:31 < benishor> I would pick java anytime
2020-06-24T22:55:37 < rajkosto> i hate all generatory, automagical frameworks
2020-06-24T22:55:47 < effractur> i still like Ruby on rails a lot
2020-06-24T22:55:55 < effractur> so easy to make a simple proof of concept
2020-06-24T22:56:14 < strata> rajkosto: i think they're great within reason - like django is automagical but you can really tweak it
2020-06-24T22:56:51 < benishor> people usually forget one thing
2020-06-24T22:56:58 < benishor> it's not about the programming language
2020-06-24T22:57:02 < benishor> that is but a detail
2020-06-24T22:57:22 < benishor> what's important is the domain knowledge
2020-06-24T22:57:25 < effractur> i mean the ecosystem is the best option
2020-06-24T22:57:29 < rajkosto> unless its PHP and it just makes you miserable every step of the way ?
2020-06-24T22:57:35 < strata> ^
2020-06-24T22:57:36 < benishor> every problem has a better tool for it
2020-06-24T22:58:07 < effractur> php also has its place they have some really nice libaries
2020-06-24T22:58:29 < effractur> there xml/html parsing is great and the image manipulation is also quite nice
2020-06-24T22:58:59 < strata> because php was there when SOAP was king
2020-06-24T22:59:12 < strata> and sites had to scrape other sites because nobody had an API
2020-06-24T22:59:33 < strata> hell
2020-06-24T22:59:49 < strata> ebay still does freaking screenshots of the USPS tracking page
2020-06-24T23:01:33 < strata> which is rofl. USPS probably said "pay us $1000 a millisecond for enterprise level api" so ebay was like "nah bruh. we'll just screen scrape your asses."
2020-06-24T23:02:42 < Steffanx> Wasnt ASP.NET not into SOAP much?
2020-06-24T23:03:36 < effractur> na ASP.NET was to modern for that
2020-06-24T23:04:03 < Steffanx> no way
2020-06-24T23:04:11 < Steffanx> asp.net was THE shit
2020-06-24T23:05:13 < effractur> na that was ASP
2020-06-24T23:05:45 < benishor> java was the shit into soap
2020-06-24T23:06:11 < benishor> also enabling xsd/dtd validation
2020-06-24T23:06:37 < benishor> soap had very many extensions and cool things such as security, encryption, routing
2020-06-24T23:06:41 < benishor> attachments
2020-06-24T23:07:11 < benishor> not to mention it wasn't dependent on http like rest is
2020-06-24T23:15:05 < Steffanx> Who dared to mention SOAP anyway?
2020-06-24T23:17:23 < benishor> an ex-convict most likely
2020-06-24T23:17:39 < benishor> surely brought back warm memories
2020-06-24T23:17:55 < rajkosto> .net isnt into SOAP ? so this video was wrong ? https://youtu.be/RnqAXuLZlaE?t=102
2020-06-24T23:20:32 < benishor> xml still has some advantages over json
2020-06-24T23:20:43 < benishor> namely grammar validation
2020-06-24T23:21:04 < benishor> so it depends on what you're trying to achieve when selecting one over the other
2020-06-24T23:22:15 < rajkosto> xml is better than json but has the ambiguity of wheter you make a member a subnode or an attribute
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2020-06-24T23:31:23 < karlp> benishor: did you ever seea soap endpoint not on http?
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2020-06-24T23:41:29 < zyp> more features doesn't necessarily imply better
2020-06-24T23:45:23 < zyp> IME xml is more annoying to parse than json, since the latter just loads directly into common data structures
2020-06-24T23:45:44 < zyp> and I'm not a fan of the verbosity when editing either
2020-06-24T23:45:47 < qyx> y u no yaml
2020-06-24T23:45:51 < qyx> or yayaml or whatever
2020-06-24T23:45:55 < zyp> yeah, was about to say
2020-06-24T23:46:14 < zyp> yaml kinda rubbed me the wrong way first time I saw it, but it's been growing on me
2020-06-24T23:46:40 < zyp> to the point where I actually think it's the best option for hand edited stuff now
2020-06-24T23:46:50 < qyx> yaml was whoa go away, right now
2020-06-24T23:48:09 < zyp> at the moment, I'd pick yaml for files to be edited and json for api protocols
2020-06-24T23:48:25 < zyp> yaml is also defined as a json superset, so a yaml parser can handle either
2020-06-24T23:50:13 < zyp> I'm considering adding a bunch of yaml to laks' build system, for platform definitions
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2020-06-24T23:51:50 < zyp> https://cgit.jvnv.net/laks/tree/build_rules#n42 <- to replace this sort of stuff
2020-06-24T23:53:05 < zyp> https://cgit.jvnv.net/laks/tree/usb/usb.h <- and also this sort of stuff
2020-06-24T23:56:21 -!- smvoss_ is now known as smvoss
2020-06-24T23:57:17 < zyp> that way when I'm adding support for a new variant, instead of adding a new partial linker script and a bunch of ifdef blocks, I'll just add a new entry in a yaml file listing memory regions and peripheral instances
--- Day changed Thu Jun 25 2020
2020-06-25T00:04:14 < karlp> PaulFertser: heh, did you see pjon on the sikrok list too? I ws just reading it, was going to ask if anyone had ever heard of it before
2020-06-25T00:05:16 < PaulFertser> karlp: yep, I thought if he spent so much time studying and writing a decoder it's worth taking a look.
2020-06-25T00:08:01  * karlp too
2020-06-25T00:08:05 < karlp> just finished reading all the specs.
2020-06-25T00:08:19 < karlp> and now I think I'm going to close it all.
2020-06-25T00:09:13  * karlp ponders applying for ~29bits worth of bus ids and ruining his little free world playground :)
2020-06-25T00:10:34 < jadew> USB VID?
2020-06-25T00:11:03 < karlp> somwhat,
2020-06-25T00:11:21 < karlp> the thing is designed for a new world order, where your own local buses can be connected via a 32bit bus id,
2020-06-25T00:11:30 < karlp> that anyone can apply for, one by onne.
2020-06-25T00:11:41 < karlp> you then get 8bits of local addressing within that...
2020-06-25T00:17:33 < jadew> so what's the conclusion, is it something worth looking into?
2020-06-25T00:18:00 < jadew> I couldn't get any highlights from the home page
2020-06-25T00:18:14 < jadew> just BS
2020-06-25T00:19:09 < jadew> the presentation video is BS as well
2020-06-25T00:19:17 < jadew> are they trying to sell that book?
2020-06-25T00:21:42 < jadew> looks a lot like TCP/IP
2020-06-25T00:25:14 < jadew> I'm off to bed, night
2020-06-25T00:25:20 < Cracki> not sure what it's got on https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/6LoWPAN
2020-06-25T00:25:58 < Cracki> except being a remix of ideas with some design decisions that could be questioned
2020-06-25T00:27:11 < Cracki> hah he's very "prolific" https://github.com/gioblu/OSPREY
2020-06-25T00:28:47 < qyx> OSPREYMaster and OSPREYSlave classes implement the master-slave dynamic addressing features on top of the PJON class
2020-06-25T00:28:50 < qyx> WRONG
2020-06-25T00:29:04 < Cracki> his linkedin says "graphic design & art direction" degree. https://www.linkedin.com/in/giovanni-blu-mitolo-1a659260/
2020-06-25T00:29:09 < Cracki> CANCELED
2020-06-25T00:29:19 < qyx> master branch, WRONG
2020-06-25T00:29:21 < Cracki> italian bdsm
2020-06-25T00:30:25 < strata> oh shit i didn't even think about that, qyx
2020-06-25T00:30:44 < strata> we're gonna have to rename "master" branch
2020-06-25T00:30:49 < Cracki> old repos on his github seem to indicate that he started all this to make his own protocol on top of plain radio transmitters
2020-06-25T00:31:13 < Cracki> rename them into owner and property branches, or dominant and submissive
2020-06-25T00:31:14 < qyx> I have one such protocol specs too
2020-06-25T00:31:25 < qyx> started in 2014
2020-06-25T00:31:27 < Cracki> or massa and ... I'm not racist enough to know any words for blacks
2020-06-25T00:31:44 < strata> how about "kangs" branch
2020-06-25T00:31:49 < Cracki> we wuz
2020-06-25T00:31:49 < strata> or "BLM"
2020-06-25T00:31:53 < Cracki> bllll
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2020-06-25T00:33:07 < strata> mawk: Cracki tssop talking about math in the offtopic so we can get back to shitposting over there and keeping this chan clear of offensive trigger warnings
2020-06-25T00:33:21 < Cracki> tssop
2020-06-25T00:33:32 < strata> omfg
2020-06-25T00:33:53 < Cracki> tssahp
2020-06-25T00:36:33 < mawk> tssop or dip ?
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2020-06-25T00:53:06 < kakimir> Ultrasauce: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0Ab15n37g_Y
2020-06-25T00:53:21 < kakimir> Skinshape - Umoja (Full Album)
2020-06-25T00:54:19 < Steffanx> Is that like finnish African music?
2020-06-25T00:54:35 < kakimir> UK
2020-06-25T00:55:29 < kakimir> my phone had those things that pop up in the notifications
2020-06-25T00:55:47 < kakimir> google said to me there is new album from Skinshape
2020-06-25T00:56:34 < strata> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xM3-LcF-uwU
2020-06-25T00:56:44 < kakimir> stuff I didn't know I needed to know just pop up in my phone
2020-06-25T00:58:09 < kakimir> I think I listened the whole album 3-4 times during work day
2020-06-25T00:59:59 < Steffanx> How many cigars did you smoke kakimir?
2020-06-25T01:00:06 < kakimir> 0
2020-06-25T01:00:38 < Steffanx> Snussing?
2020-06-25T01:00:45 < kakimir> and that musics goes with other things to smoke anyways
2020-06-25T01:00:51 < kakimir> snussing yes
2020-06-25T01:07:29 < Ultrasauce> i did not know i needed funky reggae at this moment but it turns out i did
2020-06-25T01:10:49 < kakimir> it's the sound of hot summer days
2020-06-25T01:11:04 < kakimir> is it reggae or what?
2020-06-25T01:12:30 < kakimir> *I bet it's hot there too
2020-06-25T01:13:26 < Mangy_Dog> https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/538814618106331139/725473033850191943/IMG_20200624_230912.jpg   Hardware all wired up,  need to silicon seal and glue a few bits...  But wiring up done
2020-06-25T01:14:05 < Ultrasauce> its very important to keep your controller comfy
2020-06-25T01:14:57 < Mangy_Dog> hoping the insulation will help keep it comfortable in there
2020-06-25T01:16:36 < kakimir> I made alarm clock out of beer
2020-06-25T01:16:47 < kakimir> I drank the beer
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2020-06-25T01:17:21 < kakimir> so around 7AM I have full bladder
2020-06-25T01:17:49 < kakimir> it sends signals to my brain and makes me uncomfortable
2020-06-25T01:17:57 < kakimir> so that I cannot sleep any longer
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2020-06-25T01:22:14 < strata> haha kakimir that's what i do for an alarm clock
2020-06-25T01:22:21 < strata> i drink a liter of water and go to sleep
2020-06-25T01:22:26 < zyp> huh, msp432e looks a bit cute
2020-06-25T01:22:32 < strata> ~6 hours later i am running to the pisser
2020-06-25T01:22:33 < zyp> mcu with integrated ethernet phy
2020-06-25T01:23:05 < kakimir> aha.. I have fellow practical innovator
2020-06-25T01:23:23 < kakimir> water ofc is the healthier option
2020-06-25T01:23:42 < kakimir> also likelly more controllable
2020-06-25T01:24:12 < Ultrasauce> ah but alcohol has a diuretic effect so it's more effective for this application
2020-06-25T01:24:38 < strata> alcohol is for a 4 hour setting, water for 6
2020-06-25T01:25:43 < kakimir> you have done research :o
2020-06-25T01:25:47 < kakimir> I concur
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2020-06-25T02:55:23 < Cracki> lol iOS apps can (and do) steal your clipboard data... even from your other devices
2020-06-25T02:55:26 < Cracki> https://twitter.com/karpathy/status/1275921477364092928
2020-06-25T03:03:39 < karlp> any of you guys got experience with label printers? is there anythign to look for? just want to print stickers for device serials 
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2020-06-25T03:15:16 < englishman> brother ptouch
2020-06-25T03:15:25 < englishman> and chinese knockoff cartridges
2020-06-25T03:16:04 < englishman> though for small batches I have used cheap Avery stickers and software called NiceLabel
2020-06-25T03:17:02 < englishman> and a laser printer, or an inkjet if you remove the label sheets quickly so they have time to dry and don't smear when stacked
2020-06-25T03:19:21 < englishman> you can print pretty fine qr codes on sticker sheets and laser
2020-06-25T03:19:30 < englishman> and NiceLabel makes it easy
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2020-06-25T03:54:12 < aandrew> I have an ancient USB p-touch. I love that fucking thing and use it monthly. And yes, Ali TZ-Tape. They even have heat shrink TZ-Tape
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2020-06-25T09:59:12 < mawk> karlp: you might want to choose good labels
2020-06-25T09:59:25 < mawk> like vinyl or whatever
2020-06-25T09:59:41 < mawk> because the chinese variety may become unreadable after a year or whatever of sun or air
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2020-06-25T11:16:38 < benishor> so, what's the conclusion? which model is better?
2020-06-25T11:16:41 < benishor> I'm also interested in the topic
2020-06-25T11:18:15 < jadew>  karlp, stay away from thermal printers
2020-06-25T11:18:40 < jadew> they're only good for shipping labels and short term stuff
2020-06-25T11:19:01 < jadew> if you want a label, you'll need toner
2020-06-25T11:19:10 < jadew> or ink
2020-06-25T11:19:35 < jadew> thermal labels on devices (which might warm up during their operation) are going to fade
2020-06-25T11:19:53 < jadew> also, they don't fair well against moisture
2020-06-25T11:19:56 < mawk> even sunlight makes them fade
2020-06-25T11:20:19 < jadew> you try to wipe the device with a moist cloth a month from now, and you realize the text is gone
2020-06-25T11:20:23 < jadew> yeah
2020-06-25T11:21:03 < jadew> ideally you want the labels professionally done, but if it's for serial numbers that's more difficult
2020-06-25T11:21:26 < jadew> https://cojotech.com/etp-100-10-ghz-external-prescaler
2020-06-25T11:21:33 < jadew> I'm making those labels myself because of that
2020-06-25T11:22:34 < jadew> but they're kinda difficult to make (regular printing + lamination + double sticky tape + cutting to exact size)
2020-06-25T11:22:56 < jadew> and they're very thick, which insulates the box (I've discussed this before)
2020-06-25T11:24:46 < jadew> also, I don't think this is a solution for small labels that just take the serial number
2020-06-25T11:25:07 < jadew> on other stuff I just write the SN by hand - what's wrong with that?
2020-06-25T11:27:40 < jadew> if you plan to put it on the PCB, for small batch production, just use a bit of white silkscreen
2020-06-25T11:52:56 < benishor> jadew: what sort of double sided tape are you using?
2020-06-25T11:53:00 < benishor> must be really thin
2020-06-25T11:53:15 < jadew> it is, yeah, but it's no-name
2020-06-25T11:53:30 < jadew> bought it from a shop nearby
2020-06-25T11:54:46 < jadew> I'm still looking for solution to get the SN out of there, so I can get the labels professionally done
2020-06-25T11:55:21 < jadew> making them myself is a huge PITA and they're not as good
2020-06-25T11:55:36 < jadew> *a solution
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2020-06-25T12:25:02 < karlp> jadew: thanks for the feedback.
2020-06-25T12:25:11 < jadew> np
2020-06-25T12:27:19 < karlp> englishman: aandrew thanks too.  we have a ptouch we're using now, I had a bit of a fiddle priting to it hosted on openwrt, but hopefully it should print properly on regular linux.
2020-06-25T12:27:59 < karlp> I was pretty sure I didn't know enough to just order one last night :)
2020-06-25T12:28:15 < karlp> will poke the ptouch we have more later.
2020-06-25T12:35:08 < jadew> stupid blizzard...
2020-06-25T12:35:34 < jadew> my son wanted to get a character in starcraft II so I decided to send him a gift (ballance)
2020-06-25T12:35:41 < jadew> *balance
2020-06-25T12:36:12 < jadew> he didn't get the gift because apparently it can take up to 3 days for them to clear the gift
2020-06-25T12:36:30 < jadew> I asked for a refund and bought the character directly from his account
2020-06-25T12:36:41 < jadew> they blamed it on covid...
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2020-06-25T13:44:43 < englishman> working fine here on windows 10
2020-06-25T13:44:48 < englishman> lunix problems.
2020-06-25T13:45:52 < karlp> you have a windows 10 computer on your production test and labelling rig?
2020-06-25T13:45:59 < englishman> of course
2020-06-25T13:46:24 < englishman> you think that anyone outside of r&d who is actively devloping lunix software on lunix has to use lunix?
2020-06-25T13:46:43 < englishman> what a nightmare that would be
2020-06-25T13:46:55 < karlp> now I need a whole comptuer on the test rig
2020-06-25T13:46:57 < karlp> wtf for?
2020-06-25T13:47:11 < karlp> this was just going to be a box with a bar scode scanner and a label printer
2020-06-25T13:48:03 < englishman> well idk what your needs are
2020-06-25T13:48:21 < englishman> there's ptouches with screens that work standalone as well
2020-06-25T13:48:57 < englishman> in production they have a template thing so they can load the correct label, enter the serial number range etc. then it sets date and prints
2020-06-25T13:49:15 < karlp> i have a little linux board that runs the testing things and writes serials into the devices, wanted it to just print out the labels too.
2020-06-25T13:49:55 < jadew> is the p-touch thermal?
2020-06-25T13:49:57 < englishman> for us they print a batch of the serial number range being produced
2020-06-25T13:50:41 < englishman> I have no idea what technology it is. it works
2020-06-25T13:51:01 < jadew> they're not mentioning on the website
2020-06-25T13:51:51 < englishman> if you print singles on the ptouch there's a huge waste of tape
2020-06-25T13:52:02 < jadew> because of the margins?
2020-06-25T13:52:04 < englishman> as there's a minimum width
2020-06-25T13:52:36 < karlp> was hoping to avoid the risk of "here's 20 labels, make sure you put them on the right 20 devices"
2020-06-25T13:52:46 < PaulFertser> "N76E003 – a 1T-8051 based series MCU, offers 18 KB Flash ROM, configurable Data Flash and 1 KB SRAM. It supports wide operating voltage of 2.4V to 5.5V" is what comes in a "lab psu" imitation.
2020-06-25T13:53:21 < karlp> hrm, these are all the little tedious shits that take up way too much time to get right
2020-06-25T13:53:32 < englishman> you could get a laser marker karl
2020-06-25T13:54:02 < englishman> yes! we now have a department for that aids. production engineering
2020-06-25T13:54:17 < englishman> with 4 people
2020-06-25T13:54:37 < karlp> joy
2020-06-25T13:54:41 < karlp> I'm me myself and I
2020-06-25T13:54:58 < englishman> it's dumb but it's important
2020-06-25T13:55:00 < karlp> no wonder no new development gets done on time
2020-06-25T13:55:24 < karlp> yeah, I got involved to change the old manual process to a semi automated one, went from ~15minutes/device to like ~4
2020-06-25T13:55:33 < karlp> but still lots of manual checking and room for errors
2020-06-25T13:55:54 < srk> testing?
2020-06-25T13:55:59 < englishman> diminishing returns sometimes
2020-06-25T13:56:25 < karlp> englishman: yeah, but if we want to hand this to someone else, the way the current guy does it isn't really scalable I don't think
2020-06-25T13:57:23 < karlp> srk: yeah, line testing and flashing and labelling assembled boards
2020-06-25T13:58:05 < srk> neat, refactoring my autotesting framework currently :)
2020-06-25T13:58:23 < karlp> in more fun news, my pcbs arrive tomorrow, but theparts I ordereed two months ago are still somewhere in transit after czech post mixups and warehousing
2020-06-25T13:58:33 < karlp> srk: let me guess, you have one you completely home rolled?
2020-06-25T13:58:39 < karlp> like everyone else in the fucking world it seems
2020-06-25T13:58:48 < srk> karlp: yes with fun stuff like gdb integration ;)
2020-06-25T13:59:23 < srk> its Haskell eDSL, not much stuff like that around already
2020-06-25T13:59:31 < srk> *it's
2020-06-25T14:02:20 < srk> previous version sample https://paste.rs/0fU.hs
2020-06-25T14:04:13 < karlp> uses a DSL, still unreadable.  winning :)
2020-06-25T14:04:28 < srk> yes, that's why I'm refactoring it ;)
2020-06-25T14:05:02 < srk> too much fluff required in that one, it's way better now
2020-06-25T14:05:14 < karlp> though, I was looking at robot framework, some python thing, and it'sall "hey look, weh ave a natural language dsl"
2020-06-25T14:05:28 < srk> :)
2020-06-25T14:05:33 < srk> been there, done that
2020-06-25T14:05:35 < karlp> except you have to implement all the keywords yourself anyway
2020-06-25T14:05:42 < karlp> so now instead of just having python test code,
2020-06-25T14:05:48 < karlp> you have pseudo dsl code, _and_ the python code
2020-06-25T14:05:51 < karlp> => no thanks.
2020-06-25T14:05:54 < srk> https://github.com/sorki/pllm/blob/master/pseudo.py#L226 such dsl :)
2020-06-25T14:06:54 < srk> python sucks for dsls
2020-06-25T14:07:18 < srk> true even without "for dsls" part
2020-06-25T14:07:35 < srk> except for like one-time scripts
2020-06-25T14:10:40 < srk> my thing is quite similar to pigweed recently released by gugl but not embedded dev specific and not in python :D
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2020-06-25T14:56:35 < PaulFertser> "let eports = (,) <$> gdbPort <*> uartPort" heh
2020-06-25T14:58:09 < srk> applicative :) both return Either and you get Either back
2020-06-25T14:58:14 < PaulFertser> Did you make some "auto-lifting" for the next version srk?
2020-06-25T14:58:19 < srk> heh
2020-06-25T14:58:25 < srk> something bit wilder
2020-06-25T14:58:44 < srk> PaulFertser: switched to effect system .. https://hackage.haskell.org/package/polysemy
2020-06-25T15:00:30 < srk> no more MTL struggle, different kind of struggle now but lots of fun. it started to make sense recently and I now have all the hard parts like timeout in place and only doing few final refactoring passes over the lib
2020-06-25T15:01:58 < PaulFertser> "Necessary Language Extensions" what a list!
2020-06-25T15:02:51 < srk> yes, that's type level programming & Haskell
2020-06-25T15:03:02 < srk> < Cheery> yes, but you'll be like "how many extensions you want?" and the ghc is like "yes".
2020-06-25T15:03:36 < karlp> wow, nothingabout that page is useful
2020-06-25T15:09:17 < jpa-> applies to whole haskell.org ;)
2020-06-25T15:15:22 < Cracki> I see literally code. this must be how normies look at regular programming languages.
2020-06-25T15:18:13 < srk> yeah, it allows to write you the "bussiness" or core logic without actually implementing interpreters for it right away
2020-06-25T15:18:23 < srk> https://haskell-explained.gitlab.io/blog/posts/2019/07/28/polysemy-is-cool-part-1/
2020-06-25T15:19:34 < Cracki> is any of that written for people who know no haskell and don't want to?
2020-06-25T15:19:37 < Cracki> you know, propaganda?
2020-06-25T15:20:20 < srk> not really :) I'm doing the propaganda part :D
2020-06-25T15:20:48 < Cracki> well well, "<-" almost looks like assignment. did they throw that in there for us plebes or does it actually have a purpose that the "usual" way can't satisfy
2020-06-25T15:21:03 < srk> it's called sugar :)
2020-06-25T15:21:11 < Cracki> the former then
2020-06-25T15:22:01 < srk> basically do \n a <- fun \n b <- another a \n return b is desugared to fun >>= another >> return
2020-06-25T15:22:12 < srk> so do notation is just a sugar :)
2020-06-25T15:22:24 < srk> *another >>= return
2020-06-25T15:22:30 < Cracki> where did a and b disappear to
2020-06-25T15:22:31 < srk> >> would discard the return
2020-06-25T15:22:41 < srk> passed by >>=
2020-06-25T15:22:44 < Cracki> k
2020-06-25T15:23:35 < srk> https://hackage.haskell.org/package/base-4.14.0.0/docs/Prelude.html#v:-62--62--61-
2020-06-25T15:24:05 < Cracki> that page is taking more than 10 seconds for my browser to finish displaying
2020-06-25T15:24:12 < srk> then scroll a bit to the top.. :D
2020-06-25T15:24:19 < Cracki> now it's done
2020-06-25T15:24:19 < srk> yeah, its huge
2020-06-25T15:24:24 < Cracki> can it not be huge
2020-06-25T15:24:35 < Cracki> do those people never use this, only generate it?
2020-06-25T15:24:42 < Cracki> must be some sexy generating code behind it
2020-06-25T15:24:42 < srk> yes, it mostly reexports stuff from base
2020-06-25T15:25:09 < srk> e.g. from https://hackage.haskell.org/package/base-4.14.0.0/docs/Control-Monad.html#v:-62--62--61-
2020-06-25T15:25:22 < srk> Prelude is imported by default to have some batteries-included experience
2020-06-25T15:25:39 < PaulFertser> Cracki: Haskell has no variables in the C++ sense, and = is used in normal Haskell code to "assign" complex expressions to an easy name, just as in math. But "do notation" is special sugar that allows writing in a kinda imperative style, there <- behaves similar to C++ assignment, yes.
2020-06-25T15:26:06 < Cracki> I remember let and where
2020-06-25T15:26:27 < PaulFertser> Yes, in normal code they work just as in "math".
2020-06-25T15:27:02 < Cracki> you haskell people seem to think that "non-variables" is a difficult concept. it's not. it's just "constant parameters"
2020-06-25T15:27:42 < PaulFertser> In "do notation" "a <- b" basically means that "b" is somehow calculated and then the result is passed as a first argument to a function that follows, and the argument name is "a".
2020-06-25T15:28:41 < Cracki> so... why not simply use "let"
2020-06-25T15:29:32 < PaulFertser> Do notation works to chain monads, and with <- you "unpack" a value from inside a monad. With "let" you just make an alternative shorter name for something.
2020-06-25T15:29:46 < Cracki> ok
2020-06-25T15:30:26 < Cracki> that actually kinda makes sense.
2020-06-25T15:30:57 < srk> yup, and you cannot use let result = someIOAction instead. you can combine tho and do do \n let myFn = bla . someIOAction \n a <- something
2020-06-25T15:31:11 < Cracki> it's like getting "taught" electronics in school, where the teacher has zero practical experience, and goes by the book... vs talking with engineers who have a whole different lingo that actually reflects a working *intuition*.
2020-06-25T15:31:55 < srk> yeah, "A monad is just a monoid in the category of endofunctors" 
2020-06-25T15:32:05 < Cracki> shoot everyone who utters that sentence
2020-06-25T15:32:17 < srk> more like meme nowadays :D
2020-06-25T15:32:50 < PaulFertser> Probably it works nicely for those who approach Haskell knowing category theory from some special advanced math classes.
2020-06-25T15:32:58 < srk> not very helpful unless you know all the gore, yes ^
2020-06-25T15:33:56 < Cracki> the best explanation of monads is probably that sentence, *AFTER* monoids, categories, endofunctors, and everything else, is explained before
2020-06-25T15:34:28 < Cracki> because every time someone writes a "tutorial", it's a stapled together pile of recipes and "ooh look how clever this is *wank*"
2020-06-25T15:36:46 < PaulFertser> I have an impression that a "monad" is a surprisingly "diverse" abstraction, it covers many different usecases in a rather surprising way, something that most programmers experienced with imperative languages are unfamiliar with.
2020-06-25T15:37:25 < Cracki> that's equivalent to saying "monads are like breathing"
2020-06-25T15:37:37 < Cracki> that doesn't mean normal programmers can't handle it
2020-06-25T15:37:43 < PaulFertser> No, I do not mean it.
2020-06-25T15:38:14 < Cracki> it just means all the explanations are shit for presenting various kinds of air and breathing techniques, without explaining what breathing is
2020-06-25T15:38:18 < PaulFertser> I'm trying to say that there's nothing similar in the imperative land, so you can't get intution to use it from your previous experience.
2020-06-25T15:38:54 < Cracki> that's not required tho
2020-06-25T15:39:10 < Cracki> obviously it makes sense in a haskell context
2020-06-25T15:39:18 < PaulFertser> And one can explain what a monad is from math standpoint, even without much of the complexity, in a "naive handwaving" way, and that explanation will be applicable to real life Haskell programming BUT you won't be able to apply it as you lack the intuition.
2020-06-25T15:39:31 < srk> pretty much, take for example Maybe monad which allows you to get rid of lots of pattern matching boilerplate and sequence functions returning Maybe(s) until one returns Nothing which result in termination of the computation with Nothing. if all pass you get (Just result)
2020-06-25T15:39:39 < Cracki> so an explanation either blindly assumes that context (hence the "meme") or has to build the context
2020-06-25T15:39:57 < PaulFertser> So you know what it is, you can "prove" something about the program you see. But you can't write that program yourself.
2020-06-25T15:40:23 < PaulFertser> It's like a theorem proof. You can read and understand it, but it doesn't mean you could have proven it yourself.
2020-06-25T15:40:37 < srk> you need to build the intuition, not only for monads but for other concepts as well foreign to classic languages
2020-06-25T15:40:49 < Cracki> and that's the trap all the haskellers fall into. they seemingly forgot how they got there.
2020-06-25T15:41:04 < srk> by haskelling ;)
2020-06-25T15:41:25 < PaulFertser> Yes, and the reason all the monad tutorials seem so "sketchy" is that to build the intuition you have to actually use different monads for a while, and they seem to be doing so different things that it just feels like a mess.
2020-06-25T15:41:27 < srk> you progress slowly and learn stuff as you need it, which is probably the best approach
2020-06-25T15:41:29 < Cracki> the DSM V has a section on haskell
2020-06-25T15:41:34 < srk> not only with haskell ;)
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2020-06-25T15:44:33 < PaulFertser> And then one day you'll finally ask, ok, I got a hang of monads, I used a couple of them and the intution seems to be there now. What do I do to combine _different_ monads, I need them all at the same time? And then you start reading on "monad transformers", writing things like lift $ lift $ lift in one string and liftIO $ in another and you're just thinking WTH, it doesn't feel elegant and
2020-06-25T15:44:39 < PaulFertser> natural at all anymore, damn Haskell, damn my life, damn the stupid computers!
2020-06-25T15:45:00 < karlp> well, I keep looking at haskell and listening to haskell people, and I keep having absolutely zero interest in it.
2020-06-25T15:45:23 < karlp> but it _must_ be worthwhile right?!?!!!!??
2020-06-25T15:45:40 < srk> yes becuase it changes your perspective on programming :)
2020-06-25T15:45:56 < jpa-> changing perspective on programming is the best reason for haskell that i've head
2020-06-25T15:46:05 < jpa-> but i've heard that programming in MUMPS does the same
2020-06-25T15:46:07 < karlp> the propaganda department has been _massively_ failing at getting that acorss properly
2020-06-25T15:46:31 < karlp> also, whether a changed perspective is actually _beneficial_ or just _different_
2020-06-25T15:46:34 < srk> which is why it's often recommended to programmers using different languages even when they won't use it as their primary lang
2020-06-25T15:46:51 < zyp> as far as I'm concerned, the benefit of haskell is the inspiration it had on python
2020-06-25T15:46:58 < jpa-> it might be useful for language developers, yeah
2020-06-25T15:47:21 < karlp> wel, I "fixed" my lua gc bug after ~2.5 days. so time for lunch
2020-06-25T15:47:24 < jpa-> and for research into compiler technology, static analysis, proof systems et.c
2020-06-25T15:47:28 < PaulFertser> Congrats karlp !
2020-06-25T15:47:41 < srk> jpa-: not only, data driven programming instead oop e.g.
2020-06-25T15:47:54 < karlp> not really, solution was "use more globals, don't try and use functions to separate concerns"
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2020-06-25T16:29:30 < Cracki> any of you guys ever saw pin strips that aren't 2.54 or 2.50 but 2.52 for almost-compat with both pitches? are the chinese getting *cheap*?
2020-06-25T16:30:10 < qyx> no.
2020-06-25T16:30:37 < Cracki> I have one here that fits 2.53 best. very weird.
2020-06-25T16:31:25 < zyp> why would you need such a thing?
2020-06-25T16:31:45 < Cracki> I don't need it, I question whether this thing is intentionally not 2.54 or not
2020-06-25T16:32:15 < zyp> I mean, I'm using 2.54mm headers on a test jig on 2.50mm connectors, for four pins that shit just works
2020-06-25T16:32:33 < zyp> but for anything larger, that sounds silly
2020-06-25T16:39:50 < Ultrasauce> vernier headers
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2020-06-25T17:59:41 < jadew> was looking through my bookmarks, I think I posted this before: https://imgur.com/gallery/nz0nZ
2020-06-25T18:03:08 < jpa-> jadew: you'll have to repost that in a few hours when i'm alone to watch
2020-06-25T18:03:22 < jadew> heh
2020-06-25T18:03:25 < Cracki> oooooh
2020-06-25T18:03:29 < Cracki> >only boys school
2020-06-25T18:03:40 < Cracki> oh wait those dancers aren't boys
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2020-06-25T18:14:36 < bitmask> why does it say this tap isn't meant for cutting new threads? is it because its not HSS?
2020-06-25T18:14:38 < bitmask> https://www.ebay.com/itm/M5-X-0-80-Metric-5MM-Carbon-Steel-Plug-Tap-4FL-USA-Made-0-8-RH-Irwin-1722-ZR/311070886411
2020-06-25T18:15:20 < Cracki> > in low tensile metals 
2020-06-25T18:15:34 < Cracki> sounds like the tap's material isn't all that hard
2020-06-25T18:16:07 < bitmask> guess i'll go with a hss one
2020-06-25T18:16:26 < Cracki> https://www.newmantools.com/articles/carbon_vs_hss_tap.htm
2020-06-25T18:16:57 < bitmask> hh
2020-06-25T18:16:58 < bitmask> a
2020-06-25T18:17:12 < jpa-> it can also be different teeth geometry for repair taps vs. new thread taps
2020-06-25T18:17:43 < jpa-> repair taps don't cut as much, they try to bend back damaged threads a bit also
2020-06-25T18:18:43 < PaulFertser> Sometimes new thread cutting taps are used in stages, first you cut a preliminary thread with stage 1, then proceed to stage 2 with another tap.
2020-06-25T18:19:19 < bitmask> what are the names of the 3 taps, starter is the first, plug is the 2nd or 3rd? and whats the other?
2020-06-25T18:20:07 < bitmask> I want the middle one, not sure if thats plug or not
2020-06-25T18:20:08 < jpa-> first is 1 line, second is 2 lines and third is no lines
2020-06-25T18:20:17 < bitmask> heh thanks :P
2020-06-25T18:20:52 < bitmask> taper, plug, bottoming
2020-06-25T18:21:13 < bitmask> I just want a plug
2020-06-25T18:25:16 < bitmask> jesus, even this HSS one is saying not for new threads, what is this shit
2020-06-25T18:32:22 < Cracki> wat
2020-06-25T18:32:45 < Cracki> explanation: ebay
2020-06-25T18:33:06 < bitmask> yea i know, I ordered a brand name one, should be ok
2020-06-25T18:33:08 < Cracki> they are selling you crap, they don't want to be held responsible if the thing breaks or dulls
2020-06-25T18:33:28 < bitmask> its only for aluminum anyway
2020-06-25T18:33:41 < Cracki> "war ship: asking price 10 million. don't put it in sea water, will rust"
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2020-06-25T21:54:58 < bitmask> https://i.imgur.com/oBYmhvU.png?1
2020-06-25T21:59:31 < antto> is this a torturing device?
2020-06-25T22:03:09 < Cracki> pedal-driven brain bashing machine
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2020-06-25T22:16:15 < bitmask> put your dick in a vise
2020-06-25T22:18:11 < boddax> wont risk to crack my vise too much expensive
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2020-06-25T22:29:20 < PaulFertser> bitmask: are DIYing a drill press?
2020-06-25T22:30:12 < bitmask> yea
2020-06-25T22:30:55 < PaulFertser> The vise there is the sturdiest part :(
2020-06-25T22:32:24 < bitmask> its fine for my purposes
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2020-06-25T22:33:34 < PaulFertser> Not metal work?
2020-06-25T22:33:40 < bitmask> no
2020-06-25T22:33:43 < bitmask> of course not hah
2020-06-25T22:33:49 < PaulFertser> I wonder if adding two diagonal rods would help with adding rigidity.
2020-06-25T22:33:57 < bitmask> well unless you consider a thin layer of 1oz copper metalwork
2020-06-25T22:34:11 < bitmask> its mainly for pcb
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2020-06-25T22:35:39 < PaulFertser> Looks nice though, is it your own design?
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2020-06-25T22:36:01 < bitmask> nope, got it on thingiverse, made a couple adjustments but not much
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2020-06-25T22:59:10 < jadew> looks sturdier than the one I have (also for PCB work)
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2020-06-25T23:33:17 < jadew> bitmask, do you have any bookmarks for a box design with lid that works really well and it's easy to make?
2020-06-25T23:33:54 < bitmask> to 3d print?
2020-06-25T23:33:58 < jadew> yeah
2020-06-25T23:34:11 < jadew> I need something for my vacuum pump needles
2020-06-25T23:34:22 < bitmask> nah
2020-06-25T23:34:30 < bitmask> if you find something let me know though
2020-06-25T23:36:18 < jadew> https://www.thingiverse.com/thing:59332
2020-06-25T23:36:31 < jadew> I'll make this one or this one I think https://www.thingiverse.com/thing:384919
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2020-06-25T23:39:14 < Cracki> box, what kinda box
2020-06-25T23:39:21 < Cracki> box with lid, box with one side open, ...
2020-06-25T23:39:37 < Cracki> ooh fancy, with hinged lid
2020-06-25T23:40:11 < Cracki> I'd buy a random plastic box from the store :>
2020-06-25T23:40:36 < jadew> well, I want something small
2020-06-25T23:40:43 < jadew> I only have two needles
2020-06-25T23:43:18 < Cracki> I've seen "tupperwares" that are maybe 5x10 cm or less
2020-06-25T23:43:30 < jadew> that's too big
2020-06-25T23:43:43 < jadew> my needles are 5 cm long
2020-06-25T23:43:46 < Cracki> how about a box for rings
2020-06-25T23:44:05 < jadew> well, I can print exactly what I need
2020-06-25T23:44:15 < jadew> why bother? :)
2020-06-25T23:45:07 < Cracki> fair point
2020-06-25T23:45:49 < jadew> that customizer in openscad is pretty neat
2020-06-25T23:45:53 < jadew> I didn't know it can do that
2020-06-25T23:52:03 < jadew> 20 minutes
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--- Day changed Fri Jun 26 2020
2020-06-26T00:03:08 < jadew> my son is playing fallout shelter and sometime ago he dreamt that I banished some of his people
2020-06-26T00:03:30 < Cracki> his people?
2020-06-26T00:03:33 < jadew> and ever since, he's blaming me for the fact that things are going bad in his shelter
2020-06-26T00:03:47 < Cracki> how old is he
2020-06-26T00:03:51 < jadew> 6
2020-06-26T00:03:54 < Cracki> ah ok
2020-06-26T00:04:20 < jadew> just now he was happy he two of the people there had a daughter
2020-06-26T00:04:29 < jadew> I'll have to check tomorrow to see how exactly that happens
2020-06-26T00:06:20 < PaulFertser> I think that being offended by something one dreamed up can actually make some sense. If it felt possible and logical inside a dream, it likely means that certain aspects from it is something the person percieves as truth when being awake too.
2020-06-26T00:06:46 < jadew> well, he remembers I actually did that
2020-06-26T00:06:58 < jadew> but I don't remember doing it, because I don't remember playing the game
2020-06-26T00:07:05 < Cracki> if this was "populous" (game), two genderless villagers enter a tent and a little while later a third is magically in there too
2020-06-26T00:07:14 < jadew> so it's possible I did it and forgot, or he had one of those childhood dreams where he can't tell the difference
2020-06-26T00:07:28 < PaulFertser> I mean probably he has reasons to believe you _could have_ done that judging by his understanding of your personality traits.
2020-06-26T00:07:32 < Cracki> he's 6 he can't tell the diff
2020-06-26T00:07:55 < Cracki> does he even know how you're supposed to have done that?
2020-06-26T00:08:07 < jadew> PaulFertser, no, he didn't think I did it maliciously
2020-06-26T00:08:16 < jadew> but because I didn't understood how to play the game
2020-06-26T00:08:38 < PaulFertser> So probably he might be thinking you're not always paying attention to the games you play with him :)
2020-06-26T00:08:57 < jadew> which is very plausible... tbh as time goes by, I'm starting to question weather that happened or not as well
2020-06-26T00:09:11 < zyp> a few weeks ago, I was dreaming that the kid was crawling around on the bed and about to fall off the edge, so I lunged to grab her
2020-06-26T00:09:15 < Cracki> >questioning the narrative
2020-06-26T00:09:24 < PaulFertser> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/False_memory
2020-06-26T00:09:26 < zyp> and woke up to my wife screaming because I hit her face
2020-06-26T00:09:33 < Cracki> lol
2020-06-26T00:09:42 < jadew> zyp, hah, I had those dreams too
2020-06-26T00:09:44 < jadew> freaking awful
2020-06-26T00:10:23 < PaulFertser> Have you watched Antichrist the movie? 
2020-06-26T00:10:33 < PaulFertser> Steffanx: ^^
2020-06-26T00:10:45 < PaulFertser> Not sure you'll enjoy it heh, I certainly didn't.
2020-06-26T00:10:54 < jadew> is that the one where the parents have sex and the kid falls?
2020-06-26T00:11:12 < PaulFertser> Yep, it starts with that
2020-06-26T00:11:24 < jadew> that's the only thing I remember from that movie
2020-06-26T00:11:54 < Steffanx> Dont recall seeing it PaulFertser 
2020-06-26T00:11:56 < PaulFertser> Oh, you love women so much that even Lars von Trier didn't manage to convince you they're the greatest evil ;)
2020-06-26T00:12:19 < jadew> I'll have to give it another try
2020-06-26T00:12:34 < Steffanx> Horror. 6.6. Will try
2020-06-26T00:12:53 < PaulFertser> Not sure it's actually that good.
2020-06-26T00:13:02 < jadew> there's penis in it IIRC
2020-06-26T00:13:15 < jadew> that's like... 2 points
2020-06-26T00:13:17 < PaulFertser> But probably I just didn't like the message too much.
2020-06-26T00:13:45 < qyx> zyp: lol
2020-06-26T00:16:24 < Steffanx> Oh are you suggesting im supposed to be into that jadew?
2020-06-26T00:17:01 < jadew> no, just explaining the rating
2020-06-26T00:20:54 < Steffanx> Okok :P
2020-06-26T00:21:07 < zyp> hrm, sometimes this simulink codegen shit pisses me off more than usual
2020-06-26T00:22:27 < zyp> the way it's handling scalars vs vectors is particularly fucking annoying
2020-06-26T00:24:16 < zyp> I guess a scalar is simply a one element vector, which means that the C codegen can't distinguish, so I either get a single variable or an array with >= 2 elements, no 1-element arrays
2020-06-26T00:25:45 < zyp> this is pretty fucking annoying, because coworker now wants me to build a firmware for a 1-unit setup he's going to test next week, so I have to adapt it from the 6-unit firmware I built before
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2020-06-26T00:28:13 < zyp> so I have to go and adapt code like «blah_blah[node_id] = asdf;» and change it to «blah_blah = asdf;», despite it being equivalent since node_id in this case would always be 0
2020-06-26T00:28:39 < zyp> tempted to rewrite it as (&blah_blah)[node_id]
2020-06-26T00:28:46 < zyp> but that is also ugly
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2020-06-26T00:30:16 < Cracki> even worse than a vector, in methlab they're 1x1 matrices
2020-06-26T00:30:27 < zyp> tempted to flip this shit upside down and instead provide an API that the simulink shit can call
2020-06-26T00:30:28 < Cracki> they *could* special case that
2020-06-26T00:30:37 < Cracki> maybe a good idea
2020-06-26T00:30:47 < zyp> yeah, at least that API would be more stable
2020-06-26T00:37:58 < zyp> unless that just turns into a situation where I need to keep adapting function stubs to whatever shit simulink is expecting
2020-06-26T00:40:18 < zyp> okay, shit actually built without too major changes, only problem is that I now have a bunch of for loops that's still indexing into arrays that are now only one sixth of the size
2020-06-26T00:47:28 < emeb> why on earth would you use simulink codegen?
2020-06-26T00:48:03 < karlp> "work"
2020-06-26T00:48:47 < emeb> whew - would be a shame to think someone here would voluntarily do that. :)
2020-06-26T00:49:17 < karlp> more curious is why he's doing it at this time of day :)
2020-06-26T00:50:44 < Steffanx> Because he spends the other part of the day on altium routing?
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2020-06-26T01:07:33 < qyx> yeah play first
2020-06-26T01:07:41 < qyx> work at night
2020-06-26T01:12:36 < zyp> karlp, you have kids, you should know
2020-06-26T01:12:54 < zyp> best time to get some peace for work is after they go to bed
2020-06-26T01:16:00 < zyp> emeb, coworker works in simulink, gives me a black block blob that I put on my embedded platform with some glue code around
2020-06-26T01:16:24 < zyp> and it's maintaining this glue code that's currently annoying me :p
2020-06-26T01:21:01 < karlp> zyp: I do, but I also work during the day.
2020-06-26T01:21:09 < karlp> night time is ~mostly for my own stuff
2020-06-26T01:21:18 < karlp> though I'm kinda doing work stuff right now I guess ;)
2020-06-26T01:23:01 < zyp> wife works during the day now and kid doesn't start kindergarden until august
2020-06-26T01:23:57 < Steffanx> I still like the funny kid desk chair. If i ever get imaginary kids i will buy on of those too :)
2020-06-26T01:25:21 < zyp> try getting real kids instead, more fun
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2020-06-26T01:31:09 < kakimir> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d80oXSCcHTk innovations
2020-06-26T01:31:23 < PaulFertser> `
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2020-06-26T01:38:40 < PaulFertser> Wow kakimir , what an insane idea
2020-06-26T01:40:16 < zyp> nice
2020-06-26T01:44:13 < PaulFertser> It's really an innovation, looks like it can probably become part of factory 4ch helis? 
2020-06-26T01:45:15 < Cracki> 4chan attack quadrotor?
2020-06-26T01:46:00 < PaulFertser> heh
2020-06-26T01:46:21 < PaulFertser> Cracki: no, those fixed-pitch classical heli style toys.
2020-06-26T01:46:22 < karlp> that's pretty neat
2020-06-26T01:46:50 < Cracki> I'm at 1:00 rn. so they fucked with the blades so they give radial force
2020-06-26T01:47:01 < PaulFertser> They have two servos and kind of a swash plate.
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2020-06-26T01:47:27 < Cracki> oh shit they're controlling torque on a per rotation basis
2020-06-26T01:47:31 < PaulFertser> They do collective pitch by jittering the motor in a smart way.
2020-06-26T01:47:59 < Cracki> neat trick
2020-06-26T01:49:06 < Cracki> *chirp*
2020-06-26T01:53:10 < zyp> still needs the tail for yaw
2020-06-26T01:54:30 < zyp> wonder if you could drop the tail, let it yaw freely and just compensate that out
2020-06-26T01:54:31 < Cracki> the original thing didn't because both rotors spun against each other. I doubt that can be done with just one rotor
2020-06-26T01:54:37 < Cracki> oh that you can do
2020-06-26T01:54:51 < Cracki> I've seen some "poster" videos of research on adapting to defects
2020-06-26T01:55:09 < Cracki> it'll spin like crazy but still be able to move in a controlled way
2020-06-26T02:00:33 < Cracki> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NjmiGKbtlNM
2020-06-26T02:01:53 < Cracki> I wonder how these things deal with the constant braking and acceleration electricity-wise
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2020-06-26T02:15:55 < zyp> braking is regenerative, so I figure all you need is enough capacitance to buffer the waves
2020-06-26T02:19:21 < Cracki> I was imagining something like that
2020-06-26T02:20:01 < Cracki> must be huge caps considering the typical amperage/wattage of those motors
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2020-06-26T02:32:06 < Cracki> that or they actually feed back into the batteries
2020-06-26T02:33:13 < zyp> eh, didn't he say 3000rpm or something? if the period is sub-microsecond, you don't really need that much capacitance, do you?
2020-06-26T02:34:01 < Cracki> microsecond period for the pwm, but the rotor is spinning at 3k rpm which is 50/second
2020-06-26T02:34:04 < Cracki> so that's 20 milliseconds
2020-06-26T02:34:10 < PaulFertser> Yes, the heli rotor is about few thousands RPM.
2020-06-26T02:34:42 < Cracki> 1 farad = 1 ampere second / volt, plug in current/voltage/time
2020-06-26T02:34:45 < zyp> duh, I'm stupid
2020-06-26T02:34:59 < zyp> rpm is per minute, not second :)
2020-06-26T02:35:11 < Cracki> I figured the caps for my dumb little led strip which takes single digit amps and 12v and it was *sizable*
2020-06-26T02:35:14 < Cracki> rippem
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2020-06-26T02:38:16 < zyp> so if you're varying speed twice per rotation, that's 5ms for each half wave?
2020-06-26T02:38:36 < zyp> what's the volts here? cap ripple?
2020-06-26T02:39:38 < zyp> I guess you could charge the cap above what the battery pack normally delivers
2020-06-26T02:40:17 < zyp> let's say 20A * 5ms / 10V = 10mF
2020-06-26T02:40:19 < Cracki> random wired.com article states 150 watts for hovering, 15.2 volts battery
2020-06-26T02:40:43 < Cracki> so 10 amps. I guess that's a smaller drone.
2020-06-26T02:40:48 < Cracki> 1.38 kg
2020-06-26T02:40:53 < Cracki> phantom 4 https://www.wired.com/story/the-physics-of-why-bigger-drones-can-fly-longer/
2020-06-26T02:41:25 < Cracki> 1000 µF * 15.2V / 10 A = 1.52 ms
2020-06-26T02:41:38 < Cracki> (time constant obv)
2020-06-26T02:43:20 < Cracki> supercaps, 250 millifarad not that big! https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BVJVyzdCxH4
2020-06-26T02:43:31 < Cracki> *220
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2020-06-26T02:46:02 < Cracki> hm you'd need a bank of those because they accept about the same voltages as lithium ion batteries
2020-06-26T02:47:09 < kakimate> hello night
2020-06-26T02:51:18 < Cracki> 1F 5V supercap, ~70 grams
2020-06-26T02:51:59 < Cracki> impossible to google for millifarad because all the dumbasses write µF as mF
2020-06-26T02:52:42 < ds2> thought google refuses to search for short strings anyways?
2020-06-26T02:53:08 < Cracki> you can search for SS and it knows
2020-06-26T02:53:51 < ds2> the other problem is it'll probally return hits for "FU CAPS" (clothing with logo)
2020-06-26T02:54:08 < ds2> i hate google so very very much. their search engine is just so useless
2020-06-26T02:54:29 < Cracki> there's a 50:50 chance that an AI would just kill half the population
2020-06-26T02:55:01 < ds2> I'd say 51:49 in favor 
2020-06-26T02:55:02 < Cracki> apropos roko's basilisk: let me state that an AI would invade existing search engines for the indexes
2020-06-26T02:55:02 < ds2> ;)
2020-06-26T02:55:33 < ds2> who knows the wuhan biologicals may be the result of an AI
2020-06-26T02:56:08 < Cracki> if an AI engineered it genetically, it would have released new versions by now
2020-06-26T02:56:56 < ds2> but it is... mutations, etc
2020-06-26T02:57:10 < Cracki> you only need a crate of bananas to make mutations happen
2020-06-26T02:57:25 < Cracki> they're yellow for a reason you know
2020-06-26T02:58:13 < Cracki> they're selling some weird type of face mask in my local grocery store
2020-06-26T02:58:38 < ds2> made from "smart plastic"? :D
2020-06-26T02:59:05 < Cracki> looks like a neck brace. it's a flat piece of cardboard. it can't cover anyone's mouth and nose. dunno what they're thinking
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2020-06-26T03:02:18 < upgrdman> 3d printer pros: what software do you like? cura works ok. trying simplify3d now, and it looks to have better toolpaths.
2020-06-26T03:03:50 < zyp> only used slic3r
2020-06-26T03:04:19 < upgrdman> like it?
2020-06-26T03:04:59 < zyp> enough that I haven't bothered trying any alternatives
2020-06-26T03:05:04 < upgrdman> k
2020-06-26T03:08:22 < Ultrasauce> simplify3d made me angrier than slic3r usually
2020-06-26T03:09:23 < upgrdman> Ultrasauce, why?
2020-06-26T03:10:17 < Ultrasauce> more annoying to iterate on process parameters and maintain multiple profiles for different printers
2020-06-26T03:10:49 < upgrdman> k
2020-06-26T03:11:14 < Ultrasauce> also made it way harder to do wonky stuff like multiple gcode files per print
2020-06-26T03:12:13 < Ultrasauce> i guess overall it's just a bit further down the flexible <---> turnkey continuum
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2020-06-26T03:53:53 < bitmask> why did I choose 1" oak and no power tools, my elbow hurts
2020-06-26T04:01:00 < Cracki> :D I was cursing at 6 mm birch plywood when I had to go at it with a rasp
2020-06-26T04:01:38 < Cracki> needed a 25 mm hole or sth, found 18 or 22mm drills, rest was murder
2020-06-26T04:02:22 < Cracki> at least get a cordless drill. they're damn handy and can actually drill
2020-06-26T04:05:22 < Cracki> I wish had a drill I could clamp in a drill press like you have. cordless things have quick change chucks(?), no way to mount it
2020-06-26T04:06:01 < bitmask> i have a drill and a dremel but thats the extend of the power
2020-06-26T04:06:39 < bitmask> I could have used the dremel but it woulda been a messy cut
2020-06-26T04:07:28 < bitmask> hacksaw didnt come out perfect, hard to keep perpendicular but the angle isnt too bad
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2020-06-26T04:15:53 < ds2> oak for what?
2020-06-26T04:25:01 < bitmask> I just liked the look of oak, its to mount my diy drill press
2020-06-26T04:25:33 < bitmask> https://i.imgur.com/oBYmhvU.png?1
2020-06-26T04:25:48 < bitmask> plus another few cuts to make the table for it that goes in the vise
2020-06-26T04:29:00 < Cracki> I have a hacksaw but also this for more precise cuts https://cdn.shopify.com/s/files/1/0004/1979/0879/files/13_large.jpg?v=1549418909
2020-06-26T04:29:49 < Cracki> (not the same, the type)
2020-06-26T04:54:35 < jly> bitters
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2020-06-26T07:05:52 < Cracki> heh. spent hours working on the "latex" plugin, never checked if hexchat even supports changing cursor pos or input box contents.... and it does neither
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2020-06-26T10:22:01 < mawk> you're sure Cracki ?
2020-06-26T10:22:11 < mawk> iirc there were some hacks you could do
2020-06-26T10:22:21 < mawk> or maybe just change the contents when pressing enter or whatever
2020-06-26T10:22:26 < mawk> interecept them
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2020-06-26T11:26:37 < jadew> lol Cracki 
2020-06-26T11:28:37 < jadew> you could hook into the input box and do whatever you want tho
2020-06-26T11:28:56 < jadew> but that would require something other than a script plugin
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2020-06-26T11:48:18 < jadew> anyone here got the panavise?
2020-06-26T11:48:41 < jadew> is there a more desirable vise to have than that one?
2020-06-26T11:49:04 < jadew> also, which one to get?
2020-06-26T12:17:48 < jadew> hmm
2020-06-26T12:18:06 < jadew> this proxxon one seems much nicer and costs less https://www.tme.eu/ro/en/details/pr28608/vices-and-clamps/proxxon/28608/
2020-06-26T12:18:20 < jadew> bigger jaws, bigger oppening
2020-06-26T12:18:33 < jadew> edge clamping or screw down
2020-06-26T12:37:41 < benishor> I got the proxxon one
2020-06-26T12:37:51 < benishor> suits my needs just fine
2020-06-26T12:37:58 < jadew> neat
2020-06-26T12:38:08 < jadew> I'll get that one too, once it's back in stock
2020-06-26T12:38:10 < benishor> I got it from hornbach, it's available there
2020-06-26T12:38:34 < jadew> I avoid leaving the house during the plague
2020-06-26T12:38:40 < benishor> https://www.hornbach.ro/shop/Menghina-de-masa-Proxxon-Micromot-FMZ-75mm/7499020/produs.html
2020-06-26T12:38:53 < benishor> you can also order it online
2020-06-26T12:38:56 < jadew> oh, cheap
2020-06-26T12:38:59 < jadew> yeah
2020-06-26T12:39:05 < benishor> yeah, cheap and fits the purpose
2020-06-26T12:39:18 < benishor> what do you plan to use it for mainly?
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2020-06-26T12:39:21 < benishor> as a pcb vise?
2020-06-26T12:39:35 < jadew> yeah
2020-06-26T12:39:46 < jadew> also, I want to make PTFE jaws for it
2020-06-26T12:39:53 < benishor> for that I have a stickvise
2020-06-26T12:39:57 < benishor> it's awesome for smd work
2020-06-26T12:39:59 < jadew> so I can solder connectors more easily
2020-06-26T12:40:09 < benishor> https://stickvise.com/
2020-06-26T12:40:14 < jadew> I know it, yeah
2020-06-26T12:40:49 < jadew> should probably get one of those too
2020-06-26T12:40:55 < benishor> I bought the PTFE jaws too
2020-06-26T12:41:17 < benishor> yeah, I love having them both
2020-06-26T12:41:17 < jadew> I use something like this: https://ardushop.ro/1073-thickbox_default/pcb-holder.jpg
2020-06-26T12:41:32 < benishor> how does it work for you?
2020-06-26T12:41:42 < jadew> so and so
2020-06-26T12:41:56 < benishor> I can totally vouch for the stickvise
2020-06-26T12:41:57 < jadew> had to make an better knob
2020-06-26T12:42:10 < jadew> other than that, pretty ok but tiny boards are difficult to keep steady
2020-06-26T12:42:14 < benishor> I'm a very satisfied customer, just make sure you get the PTFE jaws
2020-06-26T12:42:16 < jadew> because it's a 3 point system
2020-06-26T12:42:36 < benishor> I managed to melt a bit from the original nylon jaws with the hot air gun
2020-06-26T12:42:50 < jadew> yeah, I did that on all my vises
2020-06-26T12:54:35 < jadew> was looking through the photos on the server to see if I can find one of the PCB vise I'm using
2020-06-26T12:54:41 < jadew> found this instead: http://86.127.195.135/stuff/20150925_142733.jpg
2020-06-26T12:55:21 < jadew> ~1.5 to 2 days old onion
2020-06-26T12:55:44 < jadew> had several of those inhabitants
2020-06-26T12:57:30 < jadew> I heard that at mcdonalds they're supposed to throw the onion away if it's not used for more than 7 minutes
2020-06-26T12:58:24 < jadew> probably not because of this tho
2020-06-26T13:00:01 < jadew> benishor, where did you get the stickvise from?
2020-06-26T13:04:27 < benishor> jadew: us of a
2020-06-26T13:04:36 < benishor> I had a friend in a business trip there
2020-06-26T13:04:44 < jadew> got it
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2020-06-26T14:23:13 < Cracki> mawk, jadew found the "text commands" settext and setcursor. yuck
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2020-06-26T14:44:42 < mawk> also you have access to the gtk pointer, so you can cook up what you want with it
2020-06-26T14:48:30 < jadew> lol, youtube made a series from the karate kid movies (the old ones)
2020-06-26T14:48:39 < jadew> with the same actors, from the perspective of the bad guy
2020-06-26T14:51:16 < jadew> first episode: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_rB36UGoP4Y
2020-06-26T14:54:57 < Cracki> I'm using the python api. I have no desire to poke into gtk at this time.
2020-06-26T14:55:43 < Cracki> wtf https://github.com/hexchat/hexchat-addons/blob/master/python/ctypes/tabxhider.py
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2020-06-26T14:56:11 < Cracki> that is unreadable
2020-06-26T14:56:29 < Cracki> can I tell shithub to use a different code highlighting scheme?
2020-06-26T14:56:35 < karlp> busy few days at work I take it? :)
2020-06-26T14:58:55 < Cracki> oh right I can just mess with the stylesheet
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2020-06-26T15:01:28 < jadew> Cracki, how far are you with the plugin?
2020-06-26T15:02:18 < Cracki> why? it's in the relaxed dicking around stage
2020-06-26T15:03:07 < jadew> just wondering
2020-06-26T15:04:21 < Cracki> I'm getting cursor position _before_ key events (arrow keys) and I think I don't like how that behaves, so I might either have to calculate cursor position given the key event (left right with and without ctrl, home end, sadly no mouse click), or I'll have to steal from other plugins that reach through exposed gtk pointers
2020-06-26T15:05:16 < jadew> the proper way would be to get the selection (which also includes a collapsed selection - bare cursor)
2020-06-26T15:05:37 < jadew> alter the text, set it back, compute the new selection and finally set it back
2020-06-26T15:06:46 < Cracki> I really don't care about selection, just the cursor
2020-06-26T15:07:01 < Cracki> tho if I ever select anything and it's doing its thing, that'll mess it up
2020-06-26T15:07:18 < Cracki> but yes
2020-06-26T15:08:21 < Cracki> and no, hexchat doesn't expose "selection". I'm very NOT fond of gtk fuckery, or anything out of the g* family of projects
2020-06-26T15:09:32 < Cracki> https://stylishthemes.github.io/GitHub-Dark/
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2020-06-26T17:05:51 < Steffanx> DAAARK?
2020-06-26T17:07:00 < srk> I'm using dark reader and gh looks decent with it
2020-06-26T17:14:17 < mawk> >using github
2020-06-26T17:14:39 < srk> >not happy bout it
2020-06-26T17:20:08 < strata> <mawk> im using github
2020-06-26T17:20:13 < strata> bat lives matter
2020-06-26T17:20:20 < strata> as long as they're bill's bats
2020-06-26T17:21:40 < karlp> happy days with lua again: https://paste.jvnv.net/view/HxIMi
2020-06-26T17:23:43 < zyp> wat
2020-06-26T17:23:51 < karlp> cmdline is 0 separated,
2020-06-26T17:23:58 < zyp> ah
2020-06-26T17:24:02 < zyp> right
2020-06-26T17:24:03 < karlp> but evenusing open(f, "rb") it still fails
2020-06-26T17:30:55 < Steffanx> mawk, go work. now!
2020-06-26T17:34:59 < karlp> ahh, evenbetter.
2020-06-26T17:38:11 < karlp> https://paste.jvnv.net/view/jFIxh (only a bug in the printinthe REPL)
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2020-06-26T18:10:03 < srk> PaulFertser: https://github.com/sorki/polytype
2020-06-26T18:17:22 < mawk> no Steffanx 
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2020-06-26T18:22:15 < PaulFertser> srk: the examples look really convincing!
2020-06-26T18:22:37 < srk> PaulFertser: \o/ check the demo https://asciinema.org/a/343380 :D
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2020-06-26T18:29:10 < Cracki> htop demo, ok what's to see
2020-06-26T18:29:21 < PaulFertser> Generated by https://github.com/sorki/polytype/blob/master/src/Polytype/Examples/HtopAsciinema.hs
2020-06-26T18:29:28 < PaulFertser> So it's a demo of interaction with htop.
2020-06-26T18:29:32 < Cracki> uh
2020-06-26T18:29:45 < PaulFertser> Super-duper "expect".
2020-06-26T18:30:20 < Cracki> ah
2020-06-26T18:31:28  * karlp returns to javascript land
2020-06-26T18:34:55 < srk> karlp: /o\
2020-06-26T18:35:45 < srk> PaulFertser: the trick hidden behind runTeletypeAsciinema is that is also strips ansi sequences so you only get plain output in program part
2020-06-26T18:36:38 < karlp> not my strength either srk  :)
2020-06-26T18:37:14 < srk> I only generate js nowadays .. :D
2020-06-26T18:42:18 < srk> karlp: what are you building?
2020-06-26T18:43:42 < Steffanx> Yes, mawk.
2020-06-26T18:46:35 < karlp> at themoment, the diags page forthe remote access solutionwe're offeringo n our products
2020-06-26T18:48:51 < karlp> also, wonderingwhy this brandnew keybaord has such a fuckinguseless spacebar
2020-06-26T19:01:39 < Steffanx> lol
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2020-06-26T19:15:50 < Laurenceb> grug was born many moons before but had no unga bunga with grugina
2020-06-26T19:16:17 < Laurenceb> grugcels says its because grug brow bone is just one thumb thick not two
2020-06-26T19:16:37 < Laurenceb> grug thinks bullshit but grupcel says COPE
2020-06-26T19:17:02  * jadew is currently writing js also
2020-06-26T19:17:36 < jadew> making a mobile app for a client
2020-06-26T19:19:01 < jadew> more precisely, completely overhauling the code, because the way it works was completely changed after it was done
2020-06-26T19:19:22 < jadew> or more precisely the requirements
2020-06-26T19:19:35 < jadew> I don't mind it tho, cash is flowing
2020-06-26T19:20:22 < jadew> I guess that's the difference between being hired and working by the hour
2020-06-26T19:20:31 < jadew> last minute changes are suddenly fine
2020-06-26T19:24:02 < Laurenceb> https://preview.redd.it/tkbmel6cw3751.png?width=960&crop=smart&auto=webp&s=5fb50c63b45971983cf4aa37a5b954ad428bf0f3
2020-06-26T19:26:22 < jadew> that's not real, right?
2020-06-26T19:26:40 < jadew> now what exactly is twich?
2020-06-26T19:26:43 < jadew> it sounds interesting
2020-06-26T19:27:46 < jadew> looks like gamer shit
2020-06-26T19:29:11 < jadew> looks like Melina is live https://www.twitch.tv/melina
2020-06-26T19:29:58 < jadew> it says in the bio that she likes going on adventures, I guess this is one of those
2020-06-26T19:33:07 < jadew> I need an emergency button under my keyboard, like bank tellers have under the desk
2020-06-26T19:34:55 < srk> for /disconnect?
2020-06-26T19:35:08 < jadew> for alt tab, in case my wife walks in on me
2020-06-26T19:35:20 < srk> :D
2020-06-26T19:35:23 < jadew> :P
2020-06-26T19:36:35 < jadew> anyway, I'm back to work, twitch seems great
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2020-06-26T19:56:56 < Cracki> inb4 second plaintiff
2020-06-26T19:57:11 < jadew> heh
2020-06-26T19:57:13 < Cracki> get the wife to help
2020-06-26T19:57:28 < Cracki> moar children are good for us
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2020-06-26T20:02:04 < aandrew> jadew: yep being contract and $/hr changes your whole outlook on things
2020-06-26T20:04:00 < PaulFertser> jadew: she doesn't seem to be a good swimmer, what's to watch there? Also, keeps pulling bottoms up, that's just weird. Is she supposed to be discussing anything interesting at all?
2020-06-26T20:04:07 < jadew> Cracki, already showed her - seemed like a good depiction of what an instagram model is all about
2020-06-26T20:04:25 < PaulFertser> Like stm32 exception handling or probably.
2020-06-26T20:04:28 < jadew> Cracki, yeah, it does
2020-06-26T20:04:29 < Cracki> heh
2020-06-26T20:04:46 < jadew> sorry, I meant aandrew, yeah, it does
2020-06-26T20:05:17 < Cracki> how do you mean "last minute changes are suddenly fine"
2020-06-26T20:05:19 < karlp> contract is fine with deliverables
2020-06-26T20:05:22 < jadew> PaulFertser, I guess the point is to feel like you're out, swimming with a pretty girl
2020-06-26T20:05:33 < karlp> but I worked in a place with a lot of contracted developers
2020-06-26T20:05:36 < karlp> and it's a fucking train wreck
2020-06-26T20:05:44 < karlp> absolutely no incentive to do good work up front
2020-06-26T20:05:48 < PaulFertser> That I might enjoy. If she'd train me to swim properly.
2020-06-26T20:05:55 < Cracki> change coming from customer, fine because customer pays enough for the pain... or change coming from you, fine because customer's ass is on fire
2020-06-26T20:05:55 < aandrew> who the fuck is melina? some pre-camwhore boosting her self-esteem?
2020-06-26T20:06:05 < karlp> every incentive to do shitty short term just enough hack toqualify, and then get to bill later for how shitty it was to re-do
2020-06-26T20:06:07 < jadew> Cracki, well, if the client decides they want something different... that's fine
2020-06-26T20:06:10 < Cracki> those streams are "girlfriend simulations"
2020-06-26T20:06:13 < jadew> I'll charge them for the changes
2020-06-26T20:06:19 < Cracki> chaaarge
2020-06-26T20:06:44 < aandrew> karlp: I do good work out the gate, and in fact prefer it that way, but when they've blown through a ton of cash and got shit results it's far more lucrative to be brought in at that point
2020-06-26T20:06:45 < Cracki> what is wrong with her eyes. looks like an anime filter.
2020-06-26T20:07:31 < jadew> yeah, I do my best from the get go too
2020-06-26T20:07:51 < jadew> in fact, I even advised against building it before talking a designer, but they didn't listen
2020-06-26T20:08:15 < jadew> now they got a designer in, who came up with a completely different idea and now I'm implementing that
2020-06-26T20:08:36 < jadew> *talking to a
2020-06-26T20:08:44 < Cracki> lol
2020-06-26T20:09:24 < PaulFertser> I'd say watching Greta Thunberg was more thought-provoking.
2020-06-26T20:09:38 < Cracki> uhhh
2020-06-26T20:09:39 < jadew> you're still watching Melina?
2020-06-26T20:10:50 < aandrew> jadew: yep - that's how it goes... you make your recommendations and explain the rationale, then let them decide. if they want to hang themselves, you shrug and say "no problem, boss!"
2020-06-26T20:13:03 < karlp> aandrew:yeah, this was just a general software job,with "permanent" outsidecontractors, years in, working 100% oftheir contract time attheir own assigned desk at our company
2020-06-26T20:13:47 < jadew> that just means they were bad hires
2020-06-26T20:13:52 < karlp> they weren't hires
2020-06-26T20:13:53 < jadew> we had some of those too
2020-06-26T20:13:59 < jadew> well, contractors then :)
2020-06-26T20:14:00 < karlp> they were doing perfectly good work for _their_ employer
2020-06-26T20:14:09 < jadew> oh
2020-06-26T20:14:18 < karlp> justtheir goals weren'talignedwith _our_ goals
2020-06-26T20:14:19 < jadew> maybe they weren't being paid enough then?
2020-06-26T20:14:27 < karlp> it'
2020-06-26T20:14:36 < karlp> it was a failing of our management toallow it,
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2020-06-26T20:42:35 < mawk> karlp: 100% of the bad legacy code that cost us thousands in technicaly debt management was written by that contractor half a decade ago
2020-06-26T20:42:44 < mawk> in technical debt management*
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2020-06-26T20:43:57 < mawk> every single time I see shitty code
2020-06-26T20:44:00 < mawk> I run git blame
2020-06-26T20:44:02 < mawk> and it's him
2020-06-26T20:45:18 < aandrew> lol
2020-06-26T20:50:19 < jadew> heh
2020-06-26T20:50:46 < jadew> well, I did work with bad programmers that were hired full time, so that's also possible
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2020-06-26T21:32:16 < Cracki> what are some of the things those programmers did that you "disagree" with
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2020-06-26T21:55:45 < boddax> programmers those doing assemby things the rest is lego builders
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2020-06-26T22:28:41 < Cracki> but isn't assembly the purest kind of lego?
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2020-06-26T22:39:37 < Ultrasauce> tactical retreat
2020-06-26T22:40:15 < Ultrasauce> imagine carrying derision for abstraction in software development
2020-06-26T22:46:02 < Cracki> oh great another starlink launch for today, but canceled... nobody knew
2020-06-26T23:09:34 < jadew> Cracki, me?
2020-06-26T23:09:54 < Cracki> sure
2020-06-26T23:10:31 < jadew> spaghetti code usually
2020-06-26T23:10:36 < jadew> copy paste stuff
2020-06-26T23:10:36 < qyx> mawk: at least your shitty code is on git
2020-06-26T23:10:41 < jadew> vulnerable code
2020-06-26T23:11:03 < qyx> imagine zip archives mailed to you with big README.TXT as documentation
2020-06-26T23:11:25 < Cracki> i mean... I saw doctor B's code a few times and that is a crime against humanity
2020-06-26T23:11:42 < Cracki> wow a readme, that's luxury
2020-06-26T23:11:44 < qyx> yeah he doesn't even spaces
2020-06-26T23:12:45 < jadew> I've learned to be tolerant of coding style
2020-06-26T23:13:28 < Cracki> did a year of code monkeying at one chair of the department, they handed me code from some thesis worker. overall it worked but I guess he had a deadline... lots of duplication, and it lacked a few obvious data types to make life easier
2020-06-26T23:14:02 < Cracki> I'd run bman's code through astyle or sth
2020-06-26T23:14:23 < Cracki> and then rename all the things and then refactor
2020-06-26T23:14:28 < jadew> some programmers don't know to do code
2020-06-26T23:14:36 < jadew> others do, but they suck at it anyway
2020-06-26T23:14:48 < Cracki> but... can that actually be encountered in professional commercial environments?
2020-06-26T23:14:57 < jadew> and that sums up most of programmers you'll ever meet
2020-06-26T23:15:09 < Cracki> *cries*
2020-06-26T23:16:03 < jadew> it's one of my biggest and worst realizations about life
2020-06-26T23:16:09 < jadew> most people suck at what they're doing
2020-06-26T23:16:32 < jadew> they're just sufficiently good at it
2020-06-26T23:16:45 < PaulFertser> I agree.
2020-06-26T23:17:10 < PaulFertser> And sometimes sufficiently means "enough for the business to not go bankrupt because all the others suck too".
2020-06-26T23:17:20 < jadew> yup
2020-06-26T23:17:21 < Cracki> apropos suck, for that "latex" replacement script I'm toying with, I get to revisit concepts I last dealt with in the compiler construction class
2020-06-26T23:18:16 < Cracki> say you have \foo and \foofoo, and you're typing \foof..., at that point it could replace the \foo but it shouldn't because it's also a prefix of \foofoo that *could* still be typed... or not
2020-06-26T23:18:22 < jadew> are you adding support for escaping?
2020-06-26T23:18:27 < Cracki> kinda
2020-06-26T23:18:36 < jadew> oh, you mean for tokanization
2020-06-26T23:18:45 < Cracki> basically string replacement back and forth, and it's expanding things as you run them over with the cursor
2020-06-26T23:18:59 < jadew> you can probably do it with regex
2020-06-26T23:19:02 < Cracki> and contracting them when you move away
2020-06-26T23:19:06 < Cracki> dude, not that simple
2020-06-26T23:19:34 < jadew> what are the issues?
2020-06-26T23:19:49 < Cracki> when I've thought about this some more and implemented the functionality I want, I'll post a demo video
2020-06-26T23:20:24 < Cracki> the top issue rn is that it's too hot here for my brain to accept enough blood flow to work on the issue
2020-06-26T23:21:03 < Cracki> also what I described above. if this was a tokenizer, we'd talk about First Longest Match
2020-06-26T23:22:18 < Cracki> or the equivalent problem for regexes: match (foo|foofoo) against "foofoo", some regex engines take the alternative that matches earliest whlie some match the longest
2020-06-26T23:22:48 < jadew> let me see if I can craft a regex that works
2020-06-26T23:23:05 < jadew> the first match should be taken into account
2020-06-26T23:23:06 < Cracki> one that works has the alternatives in descending length
2020-06-26T23:23:13 < jadew> and it backtracks if the next stuff isn't matching
2020-06-26T23:23:33 < jadew> you can make it an atomic group, so it doesn't backtrack IIRC
2020-06-26T23:23:37 < Cracki> anyway, this is automata and compiler stuff, I did it before, it's just a bunch to implement properly
2020-06-26T23:24:15 < Cracki> I'm not using regexes anyway. not flexible enough
2020-06-26T23:24:23 < jadew> let me see if I can come up with a good regex
2020-06-26T23:24:25 < jadew> sure it is
2020-06-26T23:24:31 < jadew> give me a sec
2020-06-26T23:25:27 < Cracki> the mechanism I want is that once your cursor touches a µ, it expands into \mu, and once your cursor lets go of the \mu, it turns back into a µ. and this for any such pair of strings
2020-06-26T23:25:28 < jadew> \\\\|\\(foofoo|foo)
2020-06-26T23:25:39 < jadew> so this will match only properly escaped stuff
2020-06-26T23:25:44 < jadew> \\\foo will match
2020-06-26T23:25:47 < jadew> \\foo won't
2020-06-26T23:25:51 < jadew> \\\\wont
2020-06-26T23:25:54 < jadew> \\\\foo wont
2020-06-26T23:25:58 < jadew> \\\\\foo will
2020-06-26T23:25:58 < Cracki> and I'm working on it. it's just taking some thought to get it right, without dicking around and adding kludges
2020-06-26T23:26:04 < Cracki> uh
2020-06-26T23:26:09 < Cracki> nobody cares about the backslash
2020-06-26T23:26:21 < jadew> ok, then what's the problem?
2020-06-26T23:26:27 < Cracki> prefixes.
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2020-06-26T23:26:33 < jadew> please explain
2020-06-26T23:26:59 < PaulFertser> jadew: he wants the thing to recognise special tokens as early as possible
2020-06-26T23:27:09 < jadew> but it does
2020-06-26T23:27:17 < PaulFertser> So that there's no need to type the rest of it when it's unambigous.
2020-06-26T23:27:18 < Cracki> say you have "foo" and "foofoo" (both translate to something, we don't care), and you're typing "foof...", at that point it could replace the "foo" but it shouldn't because it's also a prefix of "foofoo" that *could* still be typed... or not
2020-06-26T23:27:43 < Cracki> not *quite* as early as possible, but as early as they're the only possibility
2020-06-26T23:27:51 < jadew> ah!
2020-06-26T23:27:56 < jadew> that's an interesting issue
2020-06-26T23:28:13 < jadew> ok, there's something you should check first
2020-06-26T23:28:20 < jadew> is there such a case in the real world?
2020-06-26T23:28:29 < jadew> you're doing this for latex, right?
2020-06-26T23:28:45 < jadew> do you actually have a name of a character that is the beginning of another one?
2020-06-26T23:28:45 < Cracki> in compiler construction class, we call those "productive" states because you already matched something, but if the input goes on, it could match some more
2020-06-26T23:28:50 < Cracki> think for and foreach both being keywords
2020-06-26T23:28:51 < jadew> if not, then you don't have to worry about it
2020-06-26T23:29:05 < PaulFertser> jadew: \cdot vs. \cos
2020-06-26T23:29:09 < Cracki> not for latx
2020-06-26T23:29:11 < Cracki> latex
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2020-06-26T23:29:15 < PaulFertser> Can't be replaced just after \c
2020-06-26T23:29:20 < Cracki> for any pairs of strings I care to give it
2020-06-26T23:29:28 < jadew> ok
2020-06-26T23:29:34 < jadew> well then...
2020-06-26T23:29:40 < jadew> if you want it to be both insanta
2020-06-26T23:29:40 < Cracki> PaulFertser, that's actually not trouble. neither is a prefix of the other
2020-06-26T23:29:43 < jadew> *instant
2020-06-26T23:29:46 < Cracki> and no, I don't want autocompletion
2020-06-26T23:30:08 < jadew> here's the thing, if you want it both instant and to support foo and foofoo
2020-06-26T23:30:14 < jadew> then you need to keep two buffers
2020-06-26T23:30:20 < jadew> one where you have the whole thing
2020-06-26T23:30:29 < jadew> and mirror the cursor position
2020-06-26T23:30:36 < jadew> the other one with the result
2020-06-26T23:30:47 < Cracki> nah, i don't need mirroring
2020-06-26T23:31:19 < jadew> there's another way I guess, but that invites some bugs
2020-06-26T23:31:31 < jadew> you could convert back and forth
2020-06-26T23:31:43 < Cracki> I just need to distinguish between left side of cursor being a prefix of a "keyword", or a complete "keyword"
2020-06-26T23:31:44 < jadew> so on each keypress, you convert back, re-match, and then back again
2020-06-26T23:32:05 < jadew> oh, I know!
2020-06-26T23:32:09 < jadew> you can do it with regex :P
2020-06-26T23:32:26 < Cracki> eh, you'll see
2020-06-26T23:32:32 < jadew> \\(foofoo|foo\b)
2020-06-26T23:32:38 < Cracki> but no!
2020-06-26T23:32:46 < Cracki> what if I write foofoobar and foobar 
2020-06-26T23:33:03 < Cracki> what if I write \muc and I want µc
2020-06-26T23:33:03 < jadew> foofoo matches
2020-06-26T23:33:14 < jadew> and... right, that other one doesn't
2020-06-26T23:33:20 < Cracki> but the foo in foobar doesn't thanks to the \b
2020-06-26T23:33:26 < jadew> yeah
2020-06-26T23:33:36 < jadew> you can still do it with regex :P
2020-06-26T23:34:38 < Cracki> kleene's witnesses, they want to talk to you about regular expressions
2020-06-26T23:34:39 < jadew> \\(foofoo|foo(\b|(!foo))) - something like that, I'll have to play with it a little
2020-06-26T23:35:04 < Cracki> brb watercooling my melon under the shower
2020-06-26T23:35:43 < Steffanx> enjoy
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2020-06-26T23:37:13 < jadew> ok, it can be done with regex, but it's too stupid
2020-06-26T23:37:46 < jadew> \\\\|\\(foofoo|(?!foo$|foof$|foofo$)foo)
2020-06-26T23:37:57 < jadew> or like this, without the escaping: \\(foofoo|(?!foo$|foof$|foofo$)foo)
2020-06-26T23:39:06 < jadew> you'll have to make a tokenizer and make it not spit out tokens that are at the end of the input, which could be prefixes
2020-06-26T23:39:23 < jadew> doesn't seem like too big of a problem
2020-06-26T23:41:08 < jadew> you can test it here btw, https://regex101.com/r/2P0bE3/1
2020-06-26T23:41:20 < jadew> if you add another o at the end of the test string it will match
2020-06-26T23:41:25 < jadew> anyway, stupid solution
2020-06-26T23:57:04 < Cracki> I think you said to do the whole string, I think that's what I'm gonna do. conceptually simple and costs hardly more
2020-06-26T23:57:51 < Cracki> complete tokenization instead of just near the cursor. fewer things to think about at once.
--- Day changed Sat Jun 27 2020
2020-06-27T00:00:50 < Cracki> yes, end of input is a special case. in the FLM analysis automaton it's one of 9 cases. all I'd have to do there is flag the symbol as prefix if it is, instead of emitting the previous match and reading on
2020-06-27T00:01:20 < Cracki> slide 3.22 if you're curious https://moves.rwth-aachen.de/wp-content/uploads/SS14/cc14/slides/l3h.pdf
2020-06-27T00:07:40 < Cracki> it's a dense slide, nearly incomprehensible on its own
2020-06-27T00:10:37 < Cracki> looks like I actually learned something there. I can't find similar material anywhere. it's all "oh there are DFAs and NFAs and you can do things, ok here's hand written code for a specific set of keywords"
2020-06-27T00:24:25 < Cracki> lol compiler construction slides/script at tu munich lacks vital parts. these people will have no clue how it actually works or how to implement it
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2020-06-27T00:33:26 < Cracki> this demonstrates the "backtracking", where part of the "consumed" input is restored and consumed again https://web.stanford.edu/class/archive/cs/cs143/cs143.1128/lectures/01/Slides01.pdf
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2020-06-27T01:20:33 < jadew> Cracki, you could have written a tokenizer by now
2020-06-27T01:20:54 < jadew> like... between my reply an hour ago and now
2020-06-27T01:21:32 < jadew> all you have to do is tokenize based on a bunch of keywords you have to match
2020-06-27T01:21:35 < jadew> longest first
2020-06-27T01:22:00 < jadew> last one gets the flag
2020-06-27T01:22:16 < jadew> (if it ends at the end of the input)
2020-06-27T01:23:07 < jadew> you replace them all, and for the one with the flag you only replace it if !isPrefix()
2020-06-27T01:23:07 < Cracki> allow me to slack off
2020-06-27T01:25:16 < jadew> going to get something to eat
2020-06-27T01:25:19 < jadew> I need a movie
2020-06-27T01:27:38 < jadew> I want something politically incorrect, funny, fresh, interesting
2020-06-27T01:27:48 < jadew> guess I'll have to look in the 90s
2020-06-27T01:31:57 < Cracki> 30s and 40s in germany were killer
2020-06-27T01:37:02 < jadew> heh
2020-06-27T01:37:25 < jadew> I'll watch married with children
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2020-06-27T03:43:54 < Steffanx> Fresh  > 90s... jadew ?!?
2020-06-27T03:45:55 < Cracki> til: unicode has three different mu symbols (00b5 µ, 03bc μ, 1d707 𝜇), and it has nonsense like ㎛ ㎕ ㎍ ㎌ ㎂
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2020-06-27T06:39:16 < s34n> what does the adcclk control? Why would I want to change it from the default?
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2020-06-27T13:13:15 < qyx> wtf is happening, do I really want to live in 2020? https://juneoven.com/the-oven
2020-06-27T13:20:18 < Mangy_Dog> i thought my lcd controller was over the top for my reflow oven :p
2020-06-27T13:22:32 < srk> NVIDIA Tegra K1 lol
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2020-06-27T14:52:21 < jadew> it counts your food
2020-06-27T14:53:28 < jadew> you can now know how many beans you have in your soup
2020-06-27T14:53:28 < jadew> is it internet connected?
2020-06-27T14:53:31 < jadew> yes it is, so I guess NSA knows that too
2020-06-27T14:53:55 < jadew> soon, the government will be able to tax you on the amount of methane you produce
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2020-06-27T16:55:27 < Cracki> that temp chart looks like you could reflow solder your food
2020-06-27T16:56:10 < Cracki> "a chef's mind", and underneath presets like you're a dumb burger flipper
2020-06-27T16:56:50 < Cracki> remove snake oil salesmen (and women, and everything in-between especially)
2020-06-27T17:02:05 < qyx> it detects your pcb with the camera and cooks it appropriatel
2020-06-27T17:02:06 < qyx> y
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2020-06-27T18:16:42 < Mangy_Dog> so far so good... not set fire to my desk while testing the heating code on the reflow oven... its heating up... trouble is its not stopping D:
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2020-06-27T18:20:18 < Cracki> :D
2020-06-27T18:26:12 < Streaker> Mangy_Dog: so what was the cause of the short to ground?
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2020-06-27T19:04:05 < Mangy_Dog> not entirely sure
2020-06-27T19:04:32 < Mangy_Dog> but i think maybe the metel shim on the lcd panel might have been contacting with the exposed metal of the case from wher ei cut it out
2020-06-27T19:04:41 < Mangy_Dog> added some kapton to fix that
2020-06-27T19:04:57 < Mangy_Dog> i also was having issues with the temp not updating during heat cycle
2020-06-27T19:05:09 < Mangy_Dog> that turned out to calling the temp read function too regularly
2020-06-27T19:05:21 < Mangy_Dog> limited to 220ms per call
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2020-06-27T19:05:55 < Mangy_Dog> but right now the whole heat cycle is fooked
2020-06-27T19:05:59 < Mangy_Dog> not working at all how i expect3ed
2020-06-27T19:06:09 < Cracki> display all the variables
2020-06-27T19:06:25 < Mangy_Dog> so going through a slow laborious debug and tryign to catch whats going wrong
2020-06-27T19:06:36 < Mangy_Dog> cracki doing that through a debug out
2020-06-27T19:07:07 < Cracki> you can run it without actually heating. fake the temp sensor, put a light bulb on the heater output
2020-06-27T19:07:38 < Mangy_Dog> na at this stage its all reactive to the actual heat
2020-06-27T19:07:55 < Mangy_Dog> things like testing my pwm code as well
2020-06-27T19:08:03 < Mangy_Dog> not sure thats ramping correctly
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2020-06-27T19:10:21 < Mangy_Dog> ive also got an issue with the graph drawing
2020-06-27T19:10:25 < Mangy_Dog> i need to fix some offset
2020-06-27T19:10:32 < Mangy_Dog> but my brain is kinda flaking on it
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2020-06-27T19:35:35 < Steffanx> time for a walk Mangy_Dog
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2020-06-27T19:48:43 < boddax_> ride 1 hour with motor bike reset the brain
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2020-06-27T20:00:23 < PaulFertser> Never works for me :(
2020-06-27T20:00:56 < PaulFertser> Even when the ride is not stressful.
2020-06-27T20:01:46 < Steffanx> bicycle bike tour then
2020-06-27T20:18:15 < Cracki> an hour of labradors to res(e)t the brain https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CLRrP7KmFfs
2020-06-27T20:19:33 < Mangy_Dog> the main cycle code is sort of slightly working now
2020-06-27T20:19:46 < Mangy_Dog> but the graph drawing is utterly fooked
2020-06-27T20:20:03 < qyx> no june then?
2020-06-27T20:20:20 < Mangy_Dog> june?
2020-06-27T20:21:13 < PaulFertser> The fancy oven discussed in the morning.
2020-06-27T20:21:32 < Mangy_Dog> ohh that monstrosity
2020-06-27T20:22:16 < Mangy_Dog> oh also it appears my ramp up speeds cant quite make 3c a second
2020-06-27T20:22:56 < Mangy_Dog> but that might just be turning
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2020-06-27T21:03:35 < boddax_> smoking 2 stroke bike smell synt oil ..the best thinhg
2020-06-27T21:07:39 < Cracki> vaping?
2020-06-27T21:07:56 < Cracki> sounds like you hate your lungs
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2020-06-27T21:11:44 < boddax_> recall challenges times gone
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2020-06-27T21:43:25 < englishman> fun fact: "qyx" is pronounced "cucks"
2020-06-27T21:44:37 < mawk> poor qyx
2020-06-27T21:55:41 < Steffanx> Go to work mawk :P
2020-06-27T21:57:13 < mawk> it's rest day
2020-06-27T22:04:22 < Steffanx> like all the others, for you? P
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2020-06-27T22:06:05 < mawk> :(
2020-06-27T22:06:09 < mawk> that depends
2020-06-27T22:06:19 < mawk> when I have to do maths in python then my productivity is 200%
2020-06-27T22:06:32 < mawk> but when it's php, I take 2 weeks to do something I could do in 1 day
2020-06-27T22:06:42 < mawk> I guess that's a clear enough signal for the boss to take me off php shit
2020-06-27T22:06:53 < mawk> omg Steffanx 
2020-06-27T22:06:57 < Steffanx> or just to get you a better mindset
2020-06-27T22:07:04 < mawk> there is McCrocket in macdonalds
2020-06-27T22:07:23 < Steffanx> Yes
2020-06-27T22:07:39 < Steffanx> But mcdonalds sucks donkey balls
2020-06-27T22:07:55 < mawk> poor donkey
2020-06-27T22:09:47 < Steffanx> did you also have the stroopwafel mcflurry yet?
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2020-06-27T22:10:01 < qyx> englishman: no way
2020-06-27T22:10:39 < qyx> re: nb-iot/lte-m story
2020-06-27T22:10:49 < qyx> nb-iot no worky here despite the operator declaring the opposite
2020-06-27T22:10:53 < qyx> have to check again
2020-06-27T22:11:11 < qyx> also, last week I received 1nce.com test card
2020-06-27T22:11:21 < qyx> works on first try
2020-06-27T22:11:23 < qyx> on 2G.
2020-06-27T22:11:38 < qyx> I cannot get the dumb card to connect to a LTE-M operator
2020-06-27T22:17:31 < mawk> no Steffanx 
2020-06-27T22:17:33 < mawk> is that a real thing
2020-06-27T22:17:41 < Steffanx> Yessir
2020-06-27T22:18:08 < Steffanx> or it used to be
2020-06-27T22:24:47 < Cracki> mawk, have you investigated python inline in php? :D
2020-06-27T22:26:37 < Cracki> php has multiline strings. an extension module to php is no witchcraft. python's c api is well documented. *g*
2020-06-27T22:27:08 < Cracki> only downside would be no syntax highlighting, and no decent repl
2020-06-27T22:28:06 < Cracki> mapping between data types could be a big of a headache
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2020-06-27T22:33:25 < Steffanx> Awesome solution for a " production"-ish application
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2020-06-27T23:23:02 < Cracki> still better than half the stuff out there
2020-06-27T23:23:25 < Cracki> our railway company has urls with "query.exe" in it
2020-06-27T23:24:31 < Mangy_Dog> https://youtu.be/7EIzBtUAtVw still a few bugs to fix, but i do now have a functioning reflow oven :D
2020-06-27T23:27:13 < Cracki> 198C in the beginning of the 190C leg
2020-06-27T23:27:20 < Cracki> eh, tuning :)
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2020-06-27T23:28:52 < Cracki> uh it's reading 227C on the 220C leg but the curve is UNDER target?
2020-06-27T23:30:36 < Mangy_Dog> yeah thats one of the bugs
2020-06-27T23:31:03 < Cracki> function that does (time,temp) -> (x,y)
2020-06-27T23:31:06 < Mangy_Dog> for some reason theres a shortfall in the graph rendering too
2020-06-27T23:31:25 < Mangy_Dog> on the reflow stage
2020-06-27T23:31:32 < Mangy_Dog> i need to have a look at teh maths again
2020-06-27T23:31:43 < Cracki> still better than a tire fire :D
2020-06-27T23:31:45 < zyp> you did the UI yourself?
2020-06-27T23:31:46 < Mangy_Dog> and need to see if theres more to do for turning to limit overshoot
2020-06-27T23:31:47 < Mangy_Dog> and yeah :D
2020-06-27T23:31:51 < Cracki> use eye balls
2020-06-27T23:31:52 < Mangy_Dog> and yes ui too
2020-06-27T23:31:53 < zyp> that's a pretty good looking UI
2020-06-27T23:32:06 < Cracki> inb4 LCARS skin
2020-06-27T23:32:07 < Mangy_Dog> thanks :)
2020-06-27T23:32:10 < Mangy_Dog> lol
2020-06-27T23:32:18 < Mangy_Dog> wanted to do a 80s yellow crt style
2020-06-27T23:32:46 < zyp> are you using any libs or whatever for it?
2020-06-27T23:32:57 < Cracki> I was wondering if those good old trek beeps could be remodeled... all I found is samples, no description of how they were synthesized
2020-06-27T23:33:13 < Mangy_Dog> the lcd panel is a nextion display
2020-06-27T23:33:20 < Mangy_Dog> personally i hate nextion
2020-06-27T23:33:33 < Mangy_Dog> but in this case i didnt want to spend months developing a UI from code
2020-06-27T23:33:49 < Mangy_Dog> so i made the ui in the nextion editor the layouts the assets.... and controlled them from code
2020-06-27T23:33:53 < zyp> ah
2020-06-27T23:34:28 < Mangy_Dog> i also had a nextion display gathering dust
2020-06-27T23:34:32 < Mangy_Dog> so used it up
2020-06-27T23:34:41 < Mangy_Dog> the lcd quality is appauling though
2020-06-27T23:34:47 < Mangy_Dog> really bad viewing angles
2020-06-27T23:34:48 < Cracki> their site looks spiffy
2020-06-27T23:34:59 < Mangy_Dog> looks best viewing from 6 oclock
2020-06-27T23:35:03 < Mangy_Dog> so i turned the lcd upside down
2020-06-27T23:35:26 < Cracki> I'd use one of those 90s LCDs with white on blue :D
2020-06-27T23:35:26 < Mangy_Dog> if at all possible avoid buying any nextion displays
2020-06-27T23:35:31 < Mangy_Dog> :D
2020-06-27T23:36:12 < Mangy_Dog> also i need to write some hard control for the ramp up code... at the moment its just bangbanging to full power
2020-06-27T23:36:21 < Mangy_Dog> as the ovens speed is roughly 2c per second
2020-06-27T23:36:30 < Mangy_Dog> once it gets going
2020-06-27T23:36:39 < Mangy_Dog> which is why i have a prestart warm up to 40c just to get the elements going
2020-06-27T23:36:47 < zyp> I'm not really interested in hardware/software shit that comes as a package deal
2020-06-27T23:37:10 < zyp> I'd rather want a software solution that I can point at whatever display is convenient to use with my hardware
2020-06-27T23:37:37 < zyp> then again, I'm not really that into making UIs anyway
2020-06-27T23:38:15 < Cracki> apropos GUIs, they trained a neural net to output a pacman screen... and take controller input, so you play pacman in the neural net
2020-06-27T23:38:22 < Mangy_Dog> well the eve chip is a better solusion
2020-06-27T23:38:24 < Mangy_Dog> but its more involved
2020-06-27T23:38:26 < Mangy_Dog> more coding
2020-06-27T23:38:28 < Mangy_Dog> more time
2020-06-27T23:38:35 < Mangy_Dog> but ultimately much higher fidelity
2020-06-27T23:38:40 < Cracki> it works reasonably well but it may fuck up the game rules sometimes, such as pills reappearing and whatnot
2020-06-27T23:38:46 < zyp> haha
2020-06-27T23:38:53 < Mangy_Dog> for instance on nextion, you cant spawn objects at run time
2020-06-27T23:38:56 < Mangy_Dog> or move them
2020-06-27T23:39:06 < Cracki> that's unfortunate
2020-06-27T23:39:13 < Mangy_Dog> you can only change some options of objects you palce through the ide
2020-06-27T23:39:59 < Mangy_Dog> brb
2020-06-27T23:41:03 < Cracki> https://blogs.nvidia.com/blog/2020/05/22/gamegan-research-pacman-anniversary/
2020-06-27T23:44:36 < Cracki> took a pic of those wierd "masks" they sell here: https://imgur.com/a/JYBtEKf
2020-06-27T23:44:44 < Cracki> totally flat, like cardboard
2020-06-27T23:44:52 < Cracki> the slots are for your ears
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--- Day changed Sun Jun 28 2020
2020-06-28T00:13:31 < Steffanx> I need a banana for scale.. the slots for ears look.. small
2020-06-28T00:13:46 < Cracki> those things are about 1.5 bananas long
2020-06-28T00:13:56 < Cracki> slots are maybe 4-5 cm
2020-06-28T00:14:02 < Cracki> not suitable for most ears
2020-06-28T00:14:54 < Cracki> the insanity of it is that it is and will stay flat so it's nothing more than a spit shield and nose flattener
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2020-06-28T01:33:24 < qyx> how many times should I fail with nb-iot and lte-m to understand it is too risky for anything useful
2020-06-28T01:35:55 < qyx> because 1. not widespread enough to be mature 2. you have to contact and communicate with sales 3. if you are not big enough company, they are not going to solve your issues
2020-06-28T01:36:21 < qyx> also 4. wtf pricing
2020-06-28T01:36:25 < ds2> nb-iot?
2020-06-28T01:36:51 < qyx> LTE cat. NB1/NB2
2020-06-28T01:36:57 < ds2> Oh
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2020-06-28T01:41:52 < zyp> qyx, how is it priced there?
2020-06-28T01:44:03 < qyx> deutsche telekom asks 8e for 6MB
2020-06-28T01:44:22 < qyx> for whatever they call LPWA
2020-06-28T01:44:35 < qyx> and 17e for 1GB for M2M
2020-06-28T01:44:36 < zyp> looks like telenor does 8 NOK for 1 MB
2020-06-28T01:44:38 < zyp> for nb-iot
2020-06-28T01:44:57 < qyx> thats comparable
2020-06-28T01:45:23 < qyx> but hey, thats including all tcp/ip overhead
2020-06-28T01:46:07 < zyp> they have a lte-m plan for 10 NOK/mo as well, but I'm not sure how much data that includes, if any
2020-06-28T01:46:10 < zyp> and what overages cost
2020-06-28T01:47:19 < qyx> I was not able to connec to anything here[4~
2020-06-28T01:47:27 < qyx> apparently telekom is not willing to cooperate
2020-06-28T01:47:43 < Steffanx> Why is it all so overly expensive (compared to normal data rates)?
2020-06-28T01:48:47 < qyx> idk, it is software-only thing if they have LTE already running
2020-06-28T01:49:05 < qyx> probably to squeeze some more money from companies
2020-06-28T01:49:18 < zyp> probably because iot devices don't send a lot of data, so the per-device cost on their side is higher
2020-06-28T01:50:54 < qyx> considering all this LoRaWAN looks like a viable alternative
2020-06-28T01:51:27 < Cracki> it's SMS all over again. they think they can charge you a lot for single packets
2020-06-28T01:52:03 < zyp> well, unless/until you have any better alternatives, they can
2020-06-28T01:52:42 < zyp> sms was expensive until messaging apps took off, then it became free because nobody would even use them otherwise
2020-06-28T01:52:43 < qyx> LoRaWAN infrastructure is available here for less than 1e/mo with flat rate
2020-06-28T01:53:50 < qyx> we don't have free sms
2020-06-28T01:54:01 < zyp> we do
2020-06-28T01:54:15 < Cracki> you have to buy it as "sms flatrate"
2020-06-28T01:54:16 < qyx> usually they cost the same as 1min of call
2020-06-28T01:54:24 < zyp> well, sure
2020-06-28T01:54:27 < zyp> but calls are also free
2020-06-28T01:54:43 < zyp> I only pay a monthly cost that depends on the data cap
2020-06-28T01:54:51 < Cracki> I have text flat, call flat, 3 GB, for ~10 bucks/month. if you want to spend less, ou get to pay for every minute and every sms
2020-06-28T01:55:20 < zyp> same except twice as expensive
2020-06-28T01:55:38 < qyx> I have sms for 0.04, 1min for 0.04, 1MB for 0.01
2020-06-28T01:55:45 < qyx> prepaid :>
2020-06-28T01:55:58 < zyp> 199 NOK/mo for 3GB data (with rollover), free sms, free calls
2020-06-28T01:56:30 < qyx> but otherwise you can get all-flat for 14e
2020-06-28T01:56:38 < qyx> (incl. data)
2020-06-28T01:57:10 < zyp> no cap?
2020-06-28T01:57:26 < qyx> oh wait, 14e for flat data alone, 22e for flat everything
2020-06-28T01:57:31 < qyx> 300G cap iirc
2020-06-28T01:58:19 < zyp> oh, huh
2020-06-28T01:58:34 < zyp> they actually offer plans that only includes data now
2020-06-28T01:58:37 < Cracki> 300G wow
2020-06-28T01:58:51 < Cracki> ye they did that ever since tablets came out and probably even before that
2020-06-28T01:59:07 < Cracki> also market segmentation: phones not allowed to be tethered
2020-06-28T01:59:11 < qyx> I have such LTE at home, data only, 100G/mo for 10e
2020-06-28T01:59:22 < zyp> Cracki, nah, no such bullshit here
2020-06-28T01:59:52 < zyp> I think people usually put a tablet on a twin card connected to the main plan
2020-06-28T01:59:59 < zyp> at least that's what I'd do if I had one
2020-06-28T02:00:19 < specing> yeah, vdsl/adsl (and soon ftth) will be history with mobile plans as cheap as this
2020-06-28T02:00:20 < zyp> and no stupid tethering limitations
2020-06-28T02:00:30 < zyp> hmm
2020-06-28T02:00:55 < zyp> but anyway, my 3GB plan is not something they currently offer
2020-06-28T02:01:07 < zyp> they offer 5GB + calls/sms for 279
2020-06-28T02:01:09 < qyx> you should visit your operator
2020-06-28T02:01:28 < zyp> or 5GB only (0.99 per min for calls, 0.69 per sms) for 180
2020-06-28T02:01:52 < Cracki> zyp, they stopped that here too. but they tried. in murica they really tried and there they still fuck you over every way they can think of
2020-06-28T02:02:08 < zyp> looks like a 99/mo price difference overall
2020-06-28T02:02:32 < Cracki> specing, I'll take fiber kthxbai
2020-06-28T02:02:39 < zyp> I probably don't call/sms for 99 per month, so that'd probably actually end up cheaper
2020-06-28T02:02:43 < specing> Cracki: there's no need for it
2020-06-28T02:02:56 < Cracki> 100 GB/month is a little claustrophobic
2020-06-28T02:03:04 < specing> Cracki: I've lived on less
2020-06-28T02:03:11 < Cracki> but 4k cat videos!
2020-06-28T02:03:23 < qyx> so the original topic, it is obviously better and cheaper to operate your own LoRa-LTE gateway when deploying many sensors at one place
2020-06-28T02:03:46 < Cracki> also good for signal strength :D
2020-06-28T02:03:49 < specing> Cracki: 4g is 3 times cheaper
2020-06-28T02:04:03 < qyx> also debug-wise
2020-06-28T02:04:04 < Cracki> cheaper per volume?
2020-06-28T02:04:14 < Cracki> or are you comparing apples and oranges
2020-06-28T02:04:20 < specing> Cracki: cheaper per month
2020-06-28T02:04:32 < Cracki> so you're comparing cheapest offers each
2020-06-28T02:04:45 < specing> you have to measure your monthly consumption on ftth/adsl/whatever and decide
2020-06-28T02:04:47 < Cracki> well wire needs setup, wireless no setup
2020-06-28T02:04:54 < specing> I did this and decided that 4G is for me
2020-06-28T02:04:55 < Cracki> I do, and I did
2020-06-28T02:05:00 < Cracki> good good
2020-06-28T02:05:23 < specing> I have FTTH here, but it's not connected
2020-06-28T02:05:54 < specing> the plan that would give me 4G-level bandwidth is 3 times the price of my current package (10 eur)
2020-06-28T02:07:37 < specing> literaly the only 3 uses for ftth are 1) watching 4k cat videos all day 2) seeding torrents 3) operating a server
2020-06-28T02:08:56 < Cracki> check check nope
2020-06-28T02:09:07 < Cracki> well not seeding but being a good citizen
2020-06-28T02:09:11 < specing> for 2&3 renting a server/vps in a datacenter is cheaper and better (unless you need a lot of storage)
2020-06-28T02:09:40 < specing> for 1... well you don't need that
2020-06-28T02:09:51 < Cracki> 4k cat video torrents
2020-06-28T02:10:02 < specing> Cracki: I was operating a server when I still had a regular connection
2020-06-28T02:10:15 < specing> the only benefit for a home server is much cheaper storage
2020-06-28T02:10:30 < specing> even object storage is like 5-10 times the price of home storage
2020-06-28T02:10:40 < specing> per TB
2020-06-28T02:10:57 < Cracki> "even", object storage is refined stuff
2020-06-28T02:11:14 < Cracki> cheapest would be your own server with a stack of disks in it
2020-06-28T02:11:45 < specing> maybe, but then you need to service it yourself (I suppose)
2020-06-28T02:11:55 < specing> ok if you live next door to the dc
2020-06-28T02:12:00 < Cracki> indeed
2020-06-28T02:12:37 < specing> also space in rack is not free
2020-06-28T02:12:37 < Cracki> ok if you can pay the night shift to "swap the blinking caddies" or sth
2020-06-28T02:12:43 < specing> but space under desk is :)
2020-06-28T02:12:54 < Cracki> some colos are someone's dripping basement
2020-06-28T02:13:26 < Cracki> raised floor not for ventilation but for the accidental water cooling
2020-06-28T02:13:32 < Cracki> just like in venice
2020-06-28T02:13:53 < Cracki> the LART is a paddle
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2020-06-28T02:57:36 < Steffanx> Heh https://cturt.github.io/freedvdboot.html
2020-06-28T02:57:55 < Steffanx> Hacking the PlayStation 2 through its DVD player
2020-06-28T03:06:44 < Cracki> ps2 had a basic interpreter? cute
2020-06-28T03:08:00 < Cracki> lol, for money reasons only https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yabasic#PlayStation_2
2020-06-28T03:10:09 < specing> lol, if EU did even a 1% import tax for proprietary software, suddenly everything would be running FOSS!
2020-06-28T03:10:17 < specing> money talks
2020-06-28T03:11:42 < Cracki> you just assumed that people see a cost in foss software
2020-06-28T03:11:47 < Cracki> which they do.
2020-06-28T03:11:53 < Cracki> and 1% tax won't move the needle.
2020-06-28T03:12:57 < Cracki> you can map everything into "cost", including usability, maintenance, initial setup, user training, ...
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2020-06-28T03:13:52 < specing> Cracki: I assumed that corps will do anything to save money
2020-06-28T03:14:26 < Cracki> yet they still pick commercial software, so that must be the better choice!
2020-06-28T03:14:34 < specing> even if that means that they ship a FOSS OS with a FOSS program on desktop that installs windows in place
2020-06-28T03:14:41 < Cracki> heh
2020-06-28T03:14:44 < specing> people pick what they are used to
2020-06-28T03:14:58 < Cracki> because "used to" has value
2020-06-28T03:15:01 < specing> and microsoft has extensive user grooming programs starting all the way in kindergarden
2020-06-28T03:15:36 < Cracki> kindergarten also has transgender demons grooming kids
2020-06-28T03:15:51 < Cracki> and the teachers are all commies
2020-06-28T03:16:00 < specing> ,,,
2020-06-28T03:16:05 < specing> you are nuts
2020-06-28T03:16:05 < Cracki> I guess microsoft is the most wholesome "influence" in the whole institution
2020-06-28T03:16:26 < Cracki> I'm nuts for saying it out loud :D
2020-06-28T03:17:18 < Cracki> take people from technologically untouched regions of the planet
2020-06-28T03:17:28 < Cracki> put them in front of floss vs windows
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2020-06-28T03:18:08 < kakimate> innovate now
2020-06-28T03:18:17 < Cracki> srsly, nobody uses windows on servers, same as nobody uses linux on desktops... except for trolling
2020-06-28T03:18:55 < kakimate> and for not getting things done
2020-06-28T03:18:57 < Cracki> I'd try openbsd on a desktop maybe. I can respect those guys.
2020-06-28T03:19:02 < kakimate> with opensores tools
2020-06-28T03:19:18 < Cracki> linux can't play 4k cat videos
2020-06-28T03:19:19 < kakimate> or sometimes getting some things done that are next to impossible in windows
2020-06-28T03:19:49 < kakimate> who cares
2020-06-28T03:19:54 < Cracki> just install msys2 on windows, or use that "linux subsystem" microsoft keeps reinventing and then murdering every decade
2020-06-28T03:20:58 < kakimate> not this time
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2020-06-28T03:22:59 < specing> Cracki: some Linux desktop distros look like windows
2020-06-28T03:23:15 < Cracki> if you think it's about looks, you're missing... the picture
2020-06-28T03:23:17 < specing> heck, KDE/gnome are a much more advanced GUI than what windows has to offer
2020-06-28T03:23:24 < Cracki> lol
2020-06-28T03:23:32 < Cracki> in what ways are they much more advanced
2020-06-28T03:24:03 < Cracki> oh heh, freebsd donations crashed since 2018 https://www.phoronix.com/forums/forum/phoronix/general-discussion/1039024-seems-donations-to-the-freebsd-foundation-is-drying-up
2020-06-28T03:30:32 < Cracki> false alarm it seems, they got a big fat pile of cash in 2019
2020-06-28T03:49:08 < Laurenceb> holy fucking keke
2020-06-28T03:49:44 < Laurenceb> >4chan incel wrote letter to miss hilter to ask how she was getting on in prison
2020-06-28T03:50:02 < Laurenceb> >she passed the letter round the prison
2020-06-28T03:50:24 < Laurenceb> >now millions of imprisoned femcels and writing him lewd love letters
2020-06-28T03:50:29 < Laurenceb> my orbital sides
2020-06-28T03:50:49 < Laurenceb> *are
2020-06-28T03:51:21 < specing> wtf really
2020-06-28T03:51:28 < Laurenceb> yeah lmao
2020-06-28T03:51:40 < Laurenceb> MissHitler from irc
2020-06-28T03:52:00 < Laurenceb> in prsion for terrorism lmao
2020-06-28T03:52:50 < Laurenceb> lmao he thinks he might have to move house to avoid released female serial killers now
2020-06-28T03:53:03 < specing> loool
2020-06-28T03:53:06 < Laurenceb> my sides are in orbit
2020-06-28T03:53:29 < Laurenceb> bad ideas 101: writing to batshit female terrorists in prison
2020-06-28T03:54:09 < Laurenceb> she ran hyperboreanart.com iirc, check internet archive
2020-06-28T03:55:07 < Laurenceb> >thought he might get puccy
2020-06-28T03:55:23 < Laurenceb> >gets batshit criminals writing love letters
2020-06-28T03:57:08 < Laurenceb> >>1409883
2020-06-28T03:57:08 < Laurenceb> probably all plotting to get as much dosh as possible out of someone they assume is a king simp.
2020-06-28T03:57:12 < Laurenceb> lol accurate
2020-06-28T04:02:04 < mawk> I downloaded images from a stock image site that sells icons and stuff
2020-06-28T04:02:13 < mawk> and there is a stupid watermark text if you download the free edition
2020-06-28T04:02:22 < mawk> but the icon is a svg
2020-06-28T04:02:28 < mawk> so I opened it and removed the <text> tag
2020-06-28T04:02:29 < mawk> lol
2020-06-28T04:02:31 < mawk> no more watermark
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2020-06-28T04:06:02 < Cracki> professionals
2020-06-28T04:06:12 < Cracki> maybe their techie secretly hates them
2020-06-28T04:11:05 < Cracki> what kind of mkultra meme are these people https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-england-leeds-52965672
2020-06-28T04:11:45 < Cracki> I realize a political movement has to appeal to double digits too but srsly those need a strong hand to lead them
2020-06-28T04:12:59 < Cracki> that "Connor Scothern" probably took part in the miss hitler contest
2020-06-28T04:13:12 < Laurenceb> lol
2020-06-28T04:13:24 < Laurenceb> 4chan incel wrote to top left
2020-06-28T04:14:22 < Cracki> srsly you brits sitting on your island all alone is doing a number on y'all's gene pool
2020-06-28T04:14:53 < Cracki> make urgent trade deals for evropean spunk
2020-06-28T04:17:29 < Laurenceb> lol she tried to get 4channer trolls b& from youtube for showing how fat she is irl
2020-06-28T04:18:33 < Laurenceb> >>1409925
2020-06-28T04:18:33 < Laurenceb> >camera pans down and gets the gut in the frame
2020-06-28T04:18:36 < Laurenceb> lolling
2020-06-28T04:18:54 < Cracki> something for the lovers of woman flesh and for the furries: https://www.deviantart.com/magnus-strindboem/art/Aeons-Foreshadow-Winterwolf-811880521
2020-06-28T04:19:02 < Cracki> show gut
2020-06-28T04:19:40 < Laurenceb> no anons posting it fuuu
2020-06-28T04:20:09 < Cracki> maybe it's this https://www.deviantart.com/myrthrae/art/Caspian-762985774
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2020-06-28T10:55:34 < ds2> ~
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2020-06-28T15:09:32 < Mangy_Dog> hmmm poop... the tray that came with the oven, i was going to use to deflect the direct heat from the underside element to protect the pcbs a little...
2020-06-28T15:09:47 < Mangy_Dog> using the tray halfs the heat up time because of its massive thermal mass
2020-06-28T15:09:48 < Mangy_Dog> :/
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2020-06-28T16:03:25 < Mangy_Dog> ok ordered a halogen 1200w heating element to supliment the ones already in the oven......... now i need to knwo if i need to take extra consideration to the pwming of it
2020-06-28T16:03:53 < Mangy_Dog> or will it just pop being turned on and off again even at 1-3hz cycles
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2020-06-28T16:06:57 < PaulFertser> Isn't faster PWM giving lesser temperature, and hence current, variation, thus limiting in-rush cycles?
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2020-06-28T16:11:49 < PaulFertser> But apparently just always running it below ~50 % power will shorten the lifespan by inhibiting the halogen cycle https://forum.allaboutcircuits.com/threads/pulse-width-modulating-a-halogen-bulb.102946/post-777466 
2020-06-28T16:14:29 < PaulFertser> But probably if you run it low enough tungsten won't be going off the filament at all. 
2020-06-28T16:15:10 < PaulFertser> Mangy_Dog: why do you think normal fast PWMing is not good for it?
2020-06-28T16:16:40 < Mangy_Dog> because i dont have an ssr that syncs with mains
2020-06-28T16:23:53 < PaulFertser> A TRIAC is inherently synced though.
2020-06-28T16:25:21 < PaulFertser> And do you really need phase sync on a closed-loop system?
2020-06-28T16:34:19 < Mangy_Dog> hmmm
2020-06-28T16:34:45 < Mangy_Dog> i thought just pwming a ac had phase issues that would cause trouble?
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2020-06-28T16:40:33 < PaulFertser> I think it depends, switching a TRIAC on at zero cross is more energy-efficient but it's not always strictly necessary I guess.
2020-06-28T16:51:35 < PaulFertser> Isn't your SSR zero-crossing?
2020-06-28T17:01:00 < dongs> i've made a ghettossr using triac and zero-crossing driver abslutely improves temperatures
2020-06-28T17:01:25 < dongs> even for slow-ass pwm like 5hz type stuff
2020-06-28T17:01:39 < dongs> (it was toggling a 1000W heater element
2020-06-28T17:04:54 < PaulFertser> Mangy_Dog: what SSR did you get?
2020-06-28T17:13:01 < Mangy_Dog> https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/KUDOM-16A-4-32VDC-CONTROL-ZERO-X-MINI-SOLID-STATE-RELAY/172909850184
2020-06-28T17:13:04 < Mangy_Dog> one of these
2020-06-28T17:13:37 < dongs> china special
2020-06-28T17:13:42 < Mangy_Dog> actually no
2020-06-28T17:13:43 < Mangy_Dog> its not
2020-06-28T17:14:22 < PaulFertser> Mangy_Dog: so why do you say it's not synced to mains?
2020-06-28T17:14:34 < Mangy_Dog> oh wait
2020-06-28T17:14:37 < Mangy_Dog> it does have zero crossing
2020-06-28T17:14:44 < Mangy_Dog> https://uk.rs-online.com/web/p/solid-state-relays/1025545/
2020-06-28T17:15:05 < Mangy_Dog> well it is made in china :p but its not a china special
2020-06-28T17:15:22 < Mangy_Dog> its just happens to be one thats tried and tested and sold in most componant shops
2020-06-28T17:15:50 < Mangy_Dog> ok so i should be able to fast pwm this thing then
2020-06-28T17:16:19 < Mangy_Dog> though should note
2020-06-28T17:16:21 < PaulFertser> Mangy_Dog: so if it has zero crossing I think it makes sense to make your PWM step equal 20 ms, and the PWM freq as big as your needed resolution allows.
2020-06-28T17:16:31 < Mangy_Dog> just did a pcb with some leaded and lwo temp unleaded paste
2020-06-28T17:16:36 < Mangy_Dog> just to test
2020-06-28T17:16:53 < Mangy_Dog> funnily the soak stage the unleaded started to melt even the leaded started to melt a little
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2020-06-28T17:20:43 < jadew> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Pt_XU4W4DBA
2020-06-28T17:26:41 < Mangy_Dog> dont you mean 20ms cycles pual?
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2020-06-28T17:30:26 < PaulFertser> Mangy_Dog: I meant 10 ms, not 20. But you can't control it finer than that. Your SSR will turn on and turn off strictly on zero voltage points, so you just can't have less than that.
2020-06-28T17:31:17 < PaulFertser> So changing your duty cycle by 1 can be mapped to 10 ms minimum.
2020-06-28T17:34:00 < Mangy_Dog> so 100 steps in a 1hz pwm
2020-06-28T17:34:09 < Mangy_Dog> is the fastest i can go?
2020-06-28T17:36:07 < PaulFertser> That's how I see it. Or it can be 50 steps in a 2 Hz PWM.
2020-06-28T17:39:08 < Mangy_Dog> k
2020-06-28T17:39:41 < Mangy_Dog> sp still rather slow :/ this is what im worryed about i thought the faster pwm was going to cause less heat up cool down issues when pwming halogen heating and other heating elements
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2020-06-28T18:12:06 < PaulFertser> Mangy_Dog: how low energy-wise do you estimate you'll need to go with it?
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2020-06-28T18:28:49 < Mangy_Dog> ?
2020-06-28T18:30:11 < bitmask> anyone know anything about these couplers? https://i.imgur.com/eN0Bnhs.png
2020-06-28T18:36:35 < Mangy_Dog> look a bit like linked oldhams
2020-06-28T18:37:00 < Mangy_Dog> where did you buy them i could do with some
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2020-06-28T18:40:50 < bitmask> https://www.aliexpress.com/item/32862693235.html
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2020-06-28T18:42:07 < bitmask> a lot of people use the plum couplers with the soft red cross in the middle, I read somewhere that these guys are more rigid than those which is good for a 3d printer
2020-06-28T18:42:25 < bitmask> but that was only one site, havent seem em talked about anywhere else
2020-06-28T18:42:33 < bitmask> figured id try em anyway
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2020-06-28T18:47:41 < Cracki> the red cross things can actually compensate shift. the schematic of *that* thing looks like it's entirely rigid and relying on spring forces
2020-06-28T18:48:14 < Mangy_Dog> yeah i have some plumb ones too but i could really do with those types as those allow xy play (bent screw) without putting pressure on that play causing z artifactas
2020-06-28T18:50:19 < bitmask> I see
2020-06-28T18:50:25 < Mangy_Dog> though i might be wrong
2020-06-28T18:50:26 < bitmask> ok, Im happy with my choice
2020-06-28T18:50:26 < Cracki> those plum things are elastic too. there's another cross construction where both bars are offset from each other (like putting two fingers over each other). that can actually compensate radial offset without deforming
2020-06-28T18:51:16 < Cracki> those might have some backlash tho depending on tolerances or whether that cross part is elastic
2020-06-28T19:02:58 < Mangy_Dog> i know im cheating
2020-06-28T19:03:10 < Mangy_Dog> but im struggling to get my head around PID so im hacking in code from a tutorial
2020-06-28T19:03:13 < Mangy_Dog> :/
2020-06-28T19:03:39 < Cracki> use methlab? python?
2020-06-28T19:03:42 < Mangy_Dog> gonna give it a try before i give up on pid and just do some bangbang
2020-06-28T19:03:47 < Mangy_Dog> arduino....
2020-06-28T19:03:51 < Cracki> you need something where you can play with things and plot them all at once
2020-06-28T19:04:09 < Cracki> bangbang isn't the opposite of PID
2020-06-28T19:04:13 < Cracki> PID is a control scheme.
2020-06-28T19:04:23 < Mangy_Dog> well i mean something basic and less predictive
2020-06-28T19:05:25 < Cracki> prototype this off hardware, on the desktop
2020-06-28T19:05:52 < Cracki> use whatever, but it needs to be able to plot data or at least dump it to a file so gnuplot can plot it
2020-06-28T19:06:00 < Mangy_Dog> o.O
2020-06-28T19:06:02 < Cracki> hell, you can even play with this in excel
2020-06-28T19:06:15 < Cracki> I'm assuming that you don't have matlab and you don't know python
2020-06-28T19:07:57 < Cracki> make a model of the oven. duty cycle in, temperature out. a very simple model would be float oven(float dutycycle) { static temperature = 0; temperature += dt * dutycycle * smallnumber; return temperature; }
2020-06-28T19:08:05 < Mangy_Dog> dont know python and no 
2020-06-28T19:08:05 < Cracki> on top of that you can prototype your control
2020-06-28T19:08:21 < Cracki> a real oven is a little more complex than that (loses heat to outside)
2020-06-28T19:08:23 < srk> :))
2020-06-28T19:08:26 < Cracki> ok then use C
2020-06-28T19:08:56 < Cracki> use C, print csv formatted data or something. a time series. have gnuplot or something plot it.
2020-06-28T19:11:20 < Cracki>  float oven_with_environment(float dutycycle) { static temperature = ambient; temperature += dutycycle * smallnumber1 * dt; temperature -= (temperature - ambient) * smallnumber2 * dt; return temperature; }
2020-06-28T19:12:37 < Cracki> dt is time step in seconds. you can vary it. or just set to 1 since it's all moving so slowly anyway.
2020-06-28T19:15:08 < Mangy_Dog> well the hacked in code didnt, not work...
2020-06-28T19:15:12 < Mangy_Dog> but amssive over shoot
2020-06-28T19:17:07 < Cracki> overshoot because the heating element is still hotter than the contained air, so when you switch it off, it still heats the rest
2020-06-28T19:17:13 < Mangy_Dog> yeah
2020-06-28T19:17:34 < Cracki> so... just switching on while below target, off while over it, will not help
2020-06-28T19:18:11 < Cracki> you'll want to model heating element vs oven air, if you want to play with this "offline"
2020-06-28T19:18:52 < Cracki> float heating_element(float dutycycle, float oven_air_temp) { static temperature = ambient; temperature += dutycycle * smallnumber1 * dt; temperature -= (temperature - oven_air_temp) * smallnumber2 * dt; return temperature; }
2020-06-28T19:19:56 < Cracki> float oven(float heating_element_temp) { static temperature = ambient; temperature += heating_element_temp * smallnumber1 * dt; temperature -= (temperature - ambient_temp) * smallnumber2 * dt; return temperature; }
2020-06-28T19:20:30 < Mangy_Dog> https://hastebin.com/oxuwuhimax.cpp
2020-06-28T19:20:32 < Mangy_Dog> hacked in stuff
2020-06-28T19:20:34 < Cracki> element is heated by electricity, cooled towards oven air. oven is heated by element, cooled by ambient air.
2020-06-28T19:26:04 < Mangy_Dog> i think im just going to go back to my basic thing
2020-06-28T19:29:17 < Cracki> do you have python?
2020-06-28T19:29:40 < Cracki> try "pip3 install matplotlib" (linux) or "pip install matplotlib"
2020-06-28T19:32:24 < Mangy_Dog> nope not got it and not keen on learning it right now :p
2020-06-28T19:47:15 < Cracki> got a reflow profile I can go by?
2020-06-28T19:54:01 < strata> you check on reflowly.io ?
2020-06-28T19:54:10 < strata> it's the reflow profile marketplace run by LCSC
2020-06-28T19:54:25 < Cracki> google doesn't know the domain and I can't resolve it either
2020-06-28T19:54:35 < Cracki> so you must be joking
2020-06-28T19:54:45 < strata> oh shit. i was in 2021
2020-06-28T19:54:49 < strata> sorry.
2020-06-28T19:56:14 < Mangy_Dog> no i dont have python
2020-06-28T19:58:05 < Cracki> ok I'll stop writing things then :D
2020-06-28T19:59:19 < Mangy_Dog> sorry
2020-06-28T19:59:28 < Mangy_Dog> wasnt trying to comeacross as unaprechiative
2020-06-28T19:59:53 < Mangy_Dog> part of the issue is im dylexic and this level of maths has really pushed my limits...
2020-06-28T20:00:10 < Mangy_Dog> not to mention i still dont fully understand PID in total
2020-06-28T20:00:16 < Mangy_Dog> dyslexic
2020-06-28T20:01:50 < Mangy_Dog> im also goign to need to sort out cooling for my ssr esp as im adding another 1000w element
2020-06-28T20:02:05 < Mangy_Dog> its getting rather hot to the touch
2020-06-28T20:02:08 < Mangy_Dog> even now
2020-06-28T20:02:43 < Cracki> don't worry about the math
2020-06-28T20:04:37 < Cracki> I only had high school physics. I don't remember if we ever talked about heat transfer, so the best I can do is a caricature of what's going on
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2020-06-28T21:59:25 < kakimir> https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/madpuppeteer/sauna-2000-sauna-simulator-with-retro-aesthetic
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2020-06-28T22:07:35 < Cracki> people pay 36 bucks for a game instead of the real thing?
2020-06-28T22:07:56 < Cracki> do they all have venereal diseases
2020-06-28T22:09:33 < Cracki> i love nearest neighbor sampled textures and dithering
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2020-06-28T23:10:14 < Cracki> third worlders pop in and out of support channels on irc, shit their question, close the tab (of the web irc) within 10 seconds, and probably forget they even bothered anyone after another 10 seconds
2020-06-28T23:11:37 < Cracki> I've given up on the inline replacement thing for now but maybe I'll write a plugin that buffers what someone says and only emits it if they've stuck around for more than half an hour
2020-06-28T23:18:07 < specing> nah, that's first worlders
2020-06-28T23:18:17 < specing> third worlders ask how to be part of GSoC
2020-06-28T23:19:41 < Cracki> that too
2020-06-28T23:19:53 < Cracki> or "how to contribute", with the how_to_contribute wiki link right in the fucking topic
2020-06-28T23:20:30 < Cracki> (grep the channel list for that string to find out what place I'm talking about)
2020-06-28T23:20:46 < specing> Cracki: yeah
2020-06-28T23:22:02 < Cracki> oh btw I lied about my racism script. it actually doesn't disprove any "prejudices", it confirms them
2020-06-28T23:22:33 < specing> #opencv?
2020-06-28T23:24:41 < Cracki> it's all so tiresome
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--- Day changed Mon Jun 29 2020
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2020-06-29T00:10:29 < Cracki> I have neighbors that say "probability going towards infinity"
2020-06-29T00:14:30 < kakimir> you have weird neighbours
2020-06-29T00:14:38 < kakimir> *neighbors
2020-06-29T00:15:16 < antto> isn't "neighbour" the correct spelling?
2020-06-29T00:15:29 < rajkosto> not in american english:tM:
2020-06-29T00:16:21 < antto> meh
2020-06-29T00:25:22 < PaulFertser> Cracki: have you asked them if they know that "a probability space is a measure space such that the measure of the whole space is equal to one"?
2020-06-29T00:26:19 < Cracki> *g8
2020-06-29T00:26:21 < Cracki> *
2020-06-29T00:26:27 < rajkosto> bah i gotta bleach my walls again
2020-06-29T00:26:30 < rajkosto> so hot and humid all the mold is back
2020-06-29T00:26:47 < Mangy_Dog> D:
2020-06-29T00:27:16 < Cracki> how do you manage that? the heat in the last few weeks made the humidity sensor show 10-20 %points less than usual
2020-06-29T00:27:34 < Cracki> monsoon season?
2020-06-29T00:29:03 < braindamage> here's horribly humid in the hot season, lake + mountains on 3 sides
2020-06-29T00:29:38 < Cracki> isn't all of italy considered "coastal" climate?
2020-06-29T00:29:48 < Cracki> it's not wide enough to not be coastal
2020-06-29T00:30:06 < Cracki> any bit of wind at all?
2020-06-29T00:31:12 < braindamage> despite the stereotype, italy's territory is mostly mountains
2020-06-29T00:31:25 < braindamage> not to mention, I live in the alps
2020-06-29T00:31:54 < Cracki> do you consider those real italians or just swiss that managed to learn your language?
2020-06-29T00:32:46 < braindamage> "those"?
2020-06-29T00:33:23 < Cracki> according to random internet pictures italy has 70-90% r.h. at all times
2020-06-29T00:33:37 < Cracki> oh, _you_ live in the alps. pardon.
2020-06-29T00:34:17 < braindamage> I live at the border with switzerland in fact
2020-06-29T00:34:37 < braindamage> it takes me less distance to cross the international border than to cross the city's limits
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2020-06-29T00:52:53 < Steffanx> And yet you manage to be late. Very late in swisserland :P
2020-06-29T00:54:27 < englishman> i have an italian pal who i just learned has been stranded in roma since march
2020-06-29T00:54:31 < englishman> heading home on the 7th
2020-06-29T00:54:33 < englishman> nuts
2020-06-29T00:58:33 < specing> stranded?
2020-06-29T00:58:54 < specing> roma = romania or rome?
2020-06-29T01:04:14 < braindamage> rome, I bet they got caught in the quarantine rules
2020-06-29T01:04:53 < braindamage> Steffanx: I am very much not swiss
2020-06-29T01:05:11 < specing> That sounds unlikely
2020-06-29T01:05:23 < specing> I guess its possible if they don't have a car
2020-06-29T01:05:51 < specing> englishman: how far from rome is his home?
2020-06-29T01:06:11 < Steffanx> Hah braindamage . And italian traind arent as awesomr as the swiss traind
2020-06-29T01:06:13 < specing> he should pedal further  :)
2020-06-29T01:06:19 < Steffanx> Trains. Lol
2020-06-29T01:06:27 < Steffanx> How to make the same typo twice
2020-06-29T01:06:39 < specing> Steffanx: I don't think the trains were operating during lockdowns
2020-06-29T01:06:44 < Steffanx> Lol. I need some sleep.
2020-06-29T01:06:59 < englishman> specing: over9000 km (literally)
2020-06-29T01:07:00 < specing> they weren't operating here and we didn't have anything like the italian situation
2020-06-29T01:07:14 < Steffanx> I was referring to my and his visit to mr tct a long time ago, mr specing 
2020-06-29T01:07:14 < specing> englishman: that's not possible, italy is not that large
2020-06-29T01:07:20 < englishman> correct
2020-06-29T01:07:36 < braindamage> specing: during the lockdown you were literally forbidden to get out of your city
2020-06-29T01:07:50 < specing> braindamage: I know, same here
2020-06-29T01:07:52 < englishman> i should inform you, you have made an assumption
2020-06-29T01:07:54 < specing> I still went out :D
2020-06-29T01:07:55 < englishman> v unprofessional
2020-06-29T01:08:15 < braindamage> 9000km means approx half world distance
2020-06-29T01:08:23 < braindamage> so I assume their home is in canada or us
2020-06-29T01:08:43 < specing> braindamage: 1/4 of circumferance, so yeah
2020-06-29T01:08:57 < specing> I just assumed that italians live in italy, silly me
2020-06-29T01:09:04 < englishman> 9000km as the aluminium bird flies
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2020-06-29T01:21:48 < Cracki> https://www.mapdevelopers.com/draw-circle-tool.php?circles=%5B%5B9000000%2C41.8933203%2C12.4829321%2C%22%23AAAAAA%22%2C%22%23000000%22%2C0.4%5D%5D
2020-06-29T01:22:03 < Cracki> map view breaks a little, "zoom to address" first
2020-06-29T01:48:03 < Laurenceb> https://i.redd.it/8zm2qt95uo231.jpg
2020-06-29T01:48:05 < Laurenceb> kekking
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2020-06-29T01:50:18 < laurence_> https://i.redd.it/8zm2qt95uo231.jpg
2020-06-29T01:50:19 < laurence_> >I shove my control rod in ur fuel channel
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2020-06-29T06:19:50 < jadew> https://www.reuters.com/article/us-health-coronavirus-spain-science/coronavirus-traces-found-in-march-2019-sewage-sample-spanish-study-shows-idUSKBN23X2HQ
2020-06-29T06:20:15 < jly> so does that mean the fucking jews did this?
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2020-06-29T09:52:53 < dongs> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Master_Quality_Authenticated
2020-06-29T09:52:55 < dongs> the fuck is this shit
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2020-06-29T10:17:50 < mawk> lol
2020-06-29T10:17:53 < mawk> licensed codec
2020-06-29T10:17:58 < mawk> in 2014
2020-06-29T10:18:31 < emeryth> I heard this codec is delivered to audiophile hardware manufactureres as an XMOS binary
2020-06-29T10:18:51 < dongs> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ztpWsuUItrA&t=1294
2020-06-29T10:19:27 < mawk> >"Hi-Res MUSIC" quality label
2020-06-29T10:19:29 < mawk> >lossy codec
2020-06-29T10:20:08 < dongs> above link needs audio
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2020-06-29T14:39:29 < englishman> lol
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2020-06-29T15:13:44 < benishor> can anyone can direct me to some material on having a stm32 acting as a soundcard for recording?
2020-06-29T15:29:43 < mawk> no
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2020-06-29T15:47:09 < Cracki> for recording?
2020-06-29T15:47:24 < Cracki> so you want it to ADC and then be a USB sound card device
2020-06-29T15:47:47 < Cracki> https://www.st.com/en/embedded-software/x-cube-usb-audio.html
2020-06-29T15:48:04 < Cracki> and a bunch of other links on google
2020-06-29T15:48:37 < benishor> thanks Cracki. I ended up drowning into an endless list of materials on "stm32 usb device library"
2020-06-29T15:48:43 < benishor> apparently they wrote a lib for that 
2020-06-29T15:49:04 < Cracki> I saw someone do this for at least one stm32 arduino core too
2020-06-29T15:49:10 < Cracki> looking for source
2020-06-29T15:55:51 < Cracki> soreau posted this in late may: https://github.com/rogerclarkmelbourne/Arduino_STM32/pull/775
2020-06-29T15:56:03 < Cracki> "usb composite library"
2020-06-29T15:56:21 < Cracki> https://github.com/rogerclarkmelbourne/Arduino_STM32/pull/775/files#diff-f163c6d0f5661a9b8778760b2e7896bcR36
2020-06-29T15:58:37 < Cracki> "I wrote audio support so it's possible to use stm32f1 as a microphone" "as composite device in conjunction with serial" "but there was nothing using double buffered isochronous transfers so I ended up having to find these gems https://github.com/rogerclarkmelbourne/Arduino_STM32/pull/691/commits"
2020-06-29T16:00:44 < benishor> I see cubemx has support for using the usb device 
2020-06-29T16:00:47 < benishor> lib
2020-06-29T16:00:52 < Cracki> "support" heh
2020-06-29T16:01:00 < mawk> cubemx will give you the boilerplate
2020-06-29T16:01:10 < Cracki> the rest is using HAL
2020-06-29T16:01:12 < benishor> the boilerplate is what I'm after
2020-06-29T16:01:17 < benishor> settings things up
2020-06-29T16:01:21 < Cracki> it won't be much boilerplate tho
2020-06-29T16:01:45 < Cracki> you still need a pot/pan
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2020-06-29T17:24:23 < Mangy_Dog> https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/538814618106331139/727166466973237419/IMG_20200629_150453.jpg https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/538814618106331139/727166467476553828/IMG_20200629_151526.jpg  a 1200-1400w halogen heating element instaled to boost heat up time.... and soooooo now i have 2200-2400w reflow oven....... im a little concerned my ssr which is rated for 16A and this being 
2020-06-29T17:24:23 < Mangy_Dog> a 10 amp load is going to suffer.... I dont have a heat sink yet for it :/ im scared to turn this on
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2020-06-29T17:43:26 < Cracki> what's the worst that could happen, it *heats up*
2020-06-29T17:43:51 < Cracki> wat does the datasheet say about the ssr's waste heat production?
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2020-06-29T18:09:09 < Mangy_Dog> https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/538814618106331139/727177730998665306/IMG_20200629_160207.jpg  https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/538814618106331139/727177738343022683/IMG_20200629_160229.jpg strange It pulled 2380W which is about right... But the meter maxed out at 16A... which doesnt add up.2400w/240v=10A ...  Anyway my heat up times are much much much higher... But with 1 hz my 
2020-06-29T18:09:09 < Mangy_Dog> halogen is pulsing once per second.. im worried that much turning on and off again might be damaging :/
2020-06-29T18:09:23 < Mangy_Dog> actually the ssr turned out to be fine during this test
2020-06-29T18:13:34 < Cracki> it says "max", maybe it actually drew this much very briefly
2020-06-29T18:13:57 < Cracki> nvm, watts is max too
2020-06-29T18:14:39 < Mangy_Dog> yeah
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2020-06-29T18:15:16 < Cracki> does that thing know about reactive power and all that? https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/AC_power#Reactive_power
2020-06-29T18:15:46 < Cracki> inductive and capacitive loads confuse the electrons
2020-06-29T18:15:53 < Cracki> you don't have that here tho...
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2020-06-29T18:20:31 < Mangy_Dog> https://youtu.be/JdMP-HJQlpU
2020-06-29T18:24:13 < Streaker> halogen lamps are neither reactive nor capacitive
2020-06-29T18:24:42 < Mangy_Dog> im a bit worried that pulsing will kill it
2020-06-29T18:25:05 < Streaker> of course it will. incandescent lamps have a finite number of times they can be cycled.
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2020-06-29T18:26:32 < Streaker> and halogen lamps draw about 10x the rated power for a moment when you turn them on from cold filament
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2020-06-29T18:29:18 < mawk> I went to delfsehaven in rotterdam Steffanx 
2020-06-29T18:29:21 < mawk> it's pretty nice
2020-06-29T18:29:31 < mawk> except the fact it's a 100% turkish neighborhood now
2020-06-29T18:29:39 < mawk> it's the only part of town not bombed by the nazis or something
2020-06-29T18:29:44 < mawk> where rotterdam still has old buildings
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2020-06-29T18:44:11 < Steffanx> No work mawk? :P
2020-06-29T18:44:29 < Steffanx> Ive  never been there...
2020-06-29T18:46:07 < mawk> you should
2020-06-29T18:46:10 < mawk> it's nice
2020-06-29T18:46:23 < mawk> lol I was there yesterday not today
2020-06-29T18:46:26 < mawk> today I'm working
2020-06-29T18:46:28 < mawk> 100% guaranteed
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2020-06-29T19:01:45 < Steffanx> Dont you love PHP mawk?
2020-06-29T19:14:59 < strata> s/nt//
2020-06-29T19:16:01 < Steffanx> Wrong, strata.
2020-06-29T19:18:49 < strata> ? cat was on kb
2020-06-29T19:18:58 < strata> oh shit it is a substitution!
2020-06-29T19:19:08 < strata> to make mawk love PHP too. my god. that is most excellent
2020-06-29T19:21:50 < mawk> you've got a php loving cat
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2020-06-29T19:26:10 < mawk> do you believe in god Steffanx ?
2020-06-29T19:26:33 < Steffanx> Yes, and karma, astrology and what notm
2020-06-29T19:27:51 < Steffanx> Why are you asking mawk?
2020-06-29T19:28:02 < mawk> to know if I should deport you to a reeducation camp or not
2020-06-29T19:28:37 < Steffanx> You should be proud of our christian background
2020-06-29T19:29:25 < mawk> only in the sense that's it's very slightly better than an islamic background
2020-06-29T19:29:29 < mawk> so, not at all
2020-06-29T19:31:14 < Cracki> you know the concept of a "power vacuum". same goes for religion. most people devolve into monsters without conscience or morals, unless they believe there's a higher power and inescapable punishment.
2020-06-29T19:32:33 < Cracki> if you take religion away, new ones spring up.
2020-06-29T19:32:52 < Steffanx> We'll never know what kind of barbarians we would have been without it, mawk.
2020-06-29T19:33:22 < mawk> the invention of morals by judeo-christian culture is a gross misapropriation
2020-06-29T19:33:33 < mawk> morals is emergent
2020-06-29T19:33:35 < Cracki> it's more like the perversion of morals.
2020-06-29T19:33:51 < Cracki> they make morals contingent on faith
2020-06-29T19:33:57 < mawk> yeah
2020-06-29T19:34:03 < mawk> and take credit for the presence of moral in non-believers
2020-06-29T19:34:14 < mawk> have the cake and eat it too
2020-06-29T19:34:16 < Cracki> which is why all the smoothbrains say "heathens have no morals"
2020-06-29T19:34:26 < mawk> or as we say in france, get the butter, the butter's money, and the butter lady's ass
2020-06-29T19:34:46 < Steffanx> Yet, we'll never know, mawk
2020-06-29T19:35:04 < Laurenceb> holy shit lmao
2020-06-29T19:35:05 < mawk> never know what exactly
2020-06-29T19:35:11 < mawk> whether moral is god-given ?
2020-06-29T19:35:19 < Laurenceb> half the babbyshake team has permaquit
2020-06-29T19:35:20 < Laurenceb> who could have predicted this
2020-06-29T19:35:26 < Steffanx> What we wouldve been without this history as we have now
2020-06-29T19:35:32 < Cracki> you sound surprised Laurenceb 
2020-06-29T19:35:43 < Cracki> research projects always die after funding is out
2020-06-29T19:35:46 < Laurenceb> I didnt expect it to go this badly
2020-06-29T19:35:48 < mawk> probably not the same Steffanx 
2020-06-29T19:35:49 < Laurenceb> yeah
2020-06-29T19:35:50 < mawk> but now it's 2020
2020-06-29T19:35:53 < Cracki> "badly" meaning?
2020-06-29T19:35:55 < mawk> high time to kick the fairytales out
2020-06-29T19:36:07 < Cracki> how much worse can it be than everyone being let go? even the researchers have term contracts
2020-06-29T19:36:09 < Laurenceb> Cracki: no follow on work of any sort so they are out of jerbs
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2020-06-29T19:36:17 < Cracki> that is obvious
2020-06-29T19:36:32 < Laurenceb> ikr but I thought they would be able to bullshit somebody
2020-06-29T19:36:45 < Steffanx> So time to send them your CV, Laurenceb ?
2020-06-29T19:36:54 < Laurenceb> apparently the funding agency went rage mode on them
2020-06-29T19:36:58 < Cracki> guess the bullshitter quit first
2020-06-29T19:37:03 < Cracki> hahahah
2020-06-29T19:37:09 < Steffanx> Change your name though.
2020-06-29T19:37:14 < Cracki> why would they rage, haven't enough babbies been shakked
2020-06-29T19:37:47 < Laurenceb> the manager accused them of bullshitting him
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2020-06-29T19:38:01 < Steffanx> Bye. Ragequit.
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2020-06-29T19:38:52 < Laurenceb> stupid wifi
2020-06-29T19:39:17 < specing> > urenceb | half the babbyshake team has permaquit
2020-06-29T19:39:23 < specing> I'm surprised its a team
2020-06-29T19:40:15 < Laurenceb>  ""team""
2020-06-29T19:40:35 < Laurenceb> everyone hates each other and every meeting is passive aggressive
2020-06-29T19:40:36 < Laurenceb>  *was*
2020-06-29T19:41:06 < Laurenceb> >muh database >muh gui >muh microphone calibration
2020-06-29T19:41:09 < Cracki> >‡ These authors contributed equally to this work.
2020-06-29T19:41:10 < Cracki> hahahaha
2020-06-29T19:41:15 < Laurenceb> ikr
2020-06-29T19:41:19 < Cracki> except the last one eh
2020-06-29T19:42:26 < Steffanx> So hows dooling Laurenceb ?
2020-06-29T19:43:02 < Cracki> department of labor and employment DOLE https://www.dole.gov.ph/
2020-06-29T19:43:08 < Cracki> (philippines)
2020-06-29T19:43:15 < Cracki> they are taking the piss
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2020-06-29T19:52:53 < Mangy_Dog> funnily its called the dole here too
2020-06-29T19:52:55 < Mangy_Dog> well in slang
2020-06-29T19:53:01 < Mangy_Dog> job seekers allowance now
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2020-06-29T19:58:41 < Cracki> muh gibs
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2020-06-29T20:38:29 < laurence__> making money on muh shares atm
2020-06-29T20:38:39 < laurence__> tfw too much savings for neetbucks
2020-06-29T20:39:10 < laurence__> fund managers manage voodoo - +ive rate of return during coronavirus
2020-06-29T20:41:57 < boddax> philippines ppl look like always happy
2020-06-29T20:44:00 < boddax> unlike NL premier that look like the undertaker
2020-06-29T20:47:09 < Steffanx> Hes angry at you lazy italian
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2020-06-29T21:17:08 < boddax> ehehe  he font know even how to fry an egg
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2020-06-29T21:34:59 < Steffanx> there are many things he doesnt know boddax
2020-06-29T21:42:07 < Steffanx> when will you visit appingedam to see the old houses and bridges, mawk?
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2020-06-29T21:56:16 < upgrdman> anyone here a monitor arm pro? i have a chinese (North Bayoue) monitor arm, and it works fine, but i actaully move my monitor regularly, and it has a lot of sticktion (it's properly adjusted, but the bearings are just plastic bushings, so... ya, shit.)
2020-06-29T21:56:35 < upgrdman> sounds like the ergotron lx might be good? or is it just rebranded china shit?
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2020-06-29T22:54:22 < sync> upgrdman: it's good
2020-06-29T22:56:21 < upgrdman> sync, cool. you have or used one?
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2020-06-29T23:22:46 < Steffanx> Dont you use your TV as display upgrdman?
2020-06-29T23:23:03 < mawk> the name is too ugly Steffanx 
2020-06-29T23:23:06 < mawk> appingedam
2020-06-29T23:23:10 < mawk> zapping dam ?
2020-06-29T23:23:31 < upgrdman> Steffanx, nope. the tv is my second "monitor" but a 27" monitor is my main monitro
2020-06-29T23:24:01 < upgrdman> and im tempted to by another monitor, giving me 2x 27" 4K an 1x 55" 4K
2020-06-29T23:24:09 < upgrdman> s/an/and
2020-06-29T23:24:29 < Steffanx> yeah, better go for it :P
2020-06-29T23:24:36 < Steffanx> moneyed westener style
2020-06-29T23:24:44 < upgrdman> yup
2020-06-29T23:24:55 < mawk> I want my monneyed westerner's money
2020-06-29T23:25:02 < Cracki> #metoo
2020-06-29T23:25:15 < Steffanx> Didnt you get your munny a few days back mawk?
2020-06-29T23:25:23 < mawk> yes
2020-06-29T23:25:27 < upgrdman> and whenever i do youtube videos, i'll have to also put my two Surface Pro's in frame, for a total of 5 LCDs. gotta flex, amirite?
2020-06-29T23:25:28 < mawk> but insurance and rent already stole it all
2020-06-29T23:25:31 < mawk> almost
2020-06-29T23:25:37 < mawk> only 900€ left
2020-06-29T23:25:45 < Steffanx> You can always go do like "fietsopa"  mawk
2020-06-29T23:25:54 < mawk> what did he do ?
2020-06-29T23:26:11 < Steffanx> duckduckgo it
2020-06-29T23:26:19 < mawk> why would I use duckduckgo
2020-06-29T23:26:23 < mawk> do I looke like a hippy
2020-06-29T23:26:26 < Steffanx> YES
2020-06-29T23:26:33 < Steffanx> but you're free to use google
2020-06-29T23:26:48 < mawk> https://www.facebook.com/fietsopa/
2020-06-29T23:27:55 < mawk> https://scontent-amt2-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t31.0-8/10475959_658734954203861_4119397234260549456_o.jpg?_nc_cat=105&_nc_sid=2d5d41&_nc_oc=AQn1HhVP7apcuCIW40xX1z6GkkokaJLDEl9OazJc_cMaOFqx1NjUOn1h9ul_gMagweyGF-FG4370lk7GPw1J5Fvt&_nc_ht=scontent-amt2-1.xx&oh=db3c1d54793a1e2de5752a71628e2179&oe=5F200905&dl=0
2020-06-29T23:28:23 < mawk> ik hou van dat kontje
2020-06-29T23:28:30 < mawk> suk a kok
2020-06-29T23:28:45 < Steffanx> He's famous for https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=m5KVhCE-w2o
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2020-06-29T23:29:04 < Steffanx> lol. nsfw for some people.
2020-06-29T23:29:23 < mawk> lol
2020-06-29T23:29:27 < mawk> poor girl
2020-06-29T23:29:31 < Steffanx> yeah
2020-06-29T23:31:50 < Steffanx> You should visit dumpert.nl more like a read dutch internet guy, mawk
2020-06-29T23:32:10 < mawk> my manager always gives dumpert.nl links
2020-06-29T23:32:15 < Steffanx> haha
2020-06-29T23:32:19 < mawk> some pretty nsfw
2020-06-29T23:32:30 < Steffanx> lol
2020-06-29T23:32:36 < Steffanx> sue him
2020-06-29T23:33:07 < mawk> :(
2020-06-29T23:33:10 < mawk> poor guy
2020-06-29T23:33:19 < Steffanx> no, poor soul of mawk
2020-06-29T23:46:36 < upgrdman> wtf, isn't usb-c max 100W? https://www.dell.com/en-us/work/shop/dell-130-watt-type-c-3-prong-ac-adapter-with-32-ft-power-cord/apd/450-ahom/pc-accessories
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2020-06-29T23:49:22 < Cracki> 130w combined, multiple ports?
2020-06-29T23:49:59 < Cracki> 6.5A is just 30% over 5A
2020-06-29T23:50:28 < Cracki> or did they increase the voltage instead
2020-06-29T23:50:41 < upgrdman> dunno. they don't give much info on that page :/
2020-06-29T23:51:21 < upgrdman> anyway, i dont even need that. was just looking to see what i might waste a 100$ dell gift card on. i might buy a dell monitor, and it comes with a 100$ dell gift card.
2020-06-29T23:53:10 < Cracki> oh, comments on the product say it's not usbc but barrel plug
2020-06-29T23:53:16 < Cracki> wonder how they got "usb c" in there
2020-06-29T23:53:17 < upgrdman> lol
2020-06-29T23:53:33 < Cracki> or they sent that one dude the wrong thingy
2020-06-29T23:53:42 < Cracki> that must be it
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2020-06-30T00:40:24 < Mangy_Dog> great testing and almost finishing my reflow oven... and the PWM is making the lights flicker slightly in other areas of the house as its drawing quite a lot of power. and brother and dad in there skunked up paranoier think im damaging something
2020-06-30T00:47:45 < aandrew> if y'all were going to make some kind of audio "party chat line" mesh network what approach would you take
2020-06-30T00:48:25 < aandrew> let's say just 8kHz mono per participant for now, but with the idea of being able to maybe hit 2ch 44.1kHz as an ideal
2020-06-30T00:48:46 < aandrew> say 250m range between nodes
2020-06-30T00:48:51 < aandrew> free space (outdoor) application
2020-06-30T00:49:34 < aandrew> I mean an nrf24 could easily do that, both bandwidth (2Mbps) and range perhaps with a PA, but how would you encode and distribute the audio data in a mesh
2020-06-30T00:49:40 < Cracki> Mangy_Dog, you're gaslighting them
2020-06-30T00:50:04 < Cracki> N:N audio broadcast, tough
2020-06-30T00:50:07 < aandrew> so if an arrangement like ABC-D-EF-G-HIJ  where EF can't see ABCD or HIJ, but all parties hear everyone
2020-06-30T00:50:19 < Cracki> you want a server/concentrator
2020-06-30T00:50:29 < aandrew> er where EF can't see ABC or HIJ, EF can see D and G in that example
2020-06-30T00:50:32 < Cracki> otherwise you won't have 2N traffic but N(N-1) traffic
2020-06-30T00:50:40 < aandrew> yeah that is exactly what I was thinking
2020-06-30T00:50:48 < Cracki> as for "networks", consider how IRC does it.
2020-06-30T00:50:51 < Cracki> routing
2020-06-30T00:51:12 < aandrew> I'd LIKE to be able to have everyone on their own timeslot but be able to carry "metadata" to be able to carry mixed traffic between nodes
2020-06-30T00:51:20 < Cracki> a server sends messages to its own users, and all connected servers
2020-06-30T00:51:44 < Cracki> just asking... this is digital right?
2020-06-30T00:52:24 < aandrew> and any node can either give the person in that node the "single person" audio or mix in the group audio that it's receiveing from antoher node
2020-06-30T00:52:27 < aandrew> yeah of course, 100% digital
2020-06-30T00:52:41 < Cracki> timeslots, why? that's the radio side of things
2020-06-30T00:52:51 < aandrew> it does become easier because the actual use case will not be all nodes talking at once
2020-06-30T00:53:04 < aandrew> yeah I'm mixing terms, I'm thinking of doing it TDMA
2020-06-30T00:54:00 < Cracki> access to airwaves is one thing that should be solved by whatever, but independent of audio data being carried
2020-06-30T00:54:48 < Cracki> do TETRA?
2020-06-30T00:56:02 < Cracki> there should be plenty of mesh network solutions out there
2020-06-30T00:56:30 < Cracki> (mesh networking usually implies routing and possibly multicast/broadcast)
2020-06-30T00:56:30 < aandrew> yeah this is pretty much a solved problem, just tryin to see which is the best approach
2020-06-30T00:57:20 < aandrew> right, in my case mesh is about making sure a message gets to all nodes, even if one node can't see all others
2020-06-30T00:57:40 < Cracki> I had a lecture on "mobile internet technologies" that had some mesh networking and other stuff (aloha, ...) but that's a while ago and all I remember is the building blocks, not practical *named* implementations a real engineer would buy
2020-06-30T00:58:45 < Cracki> visibility is a big problem. it needn't even be symmetric. and in practice you have to deal with those things.
2020-06-30T00:59:02 < Cracki> (i.e. A can hear B, but B can't hear A)
2020-06-30T00:59:05 < aandrew> right
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2020-06-30T00:59:15 < aandrew> there's that too, although that is unlikely in this scenario
2020-06-30T00:59:22 < Cracki> but A hearing B means B can jam other nodes talking at the same time/frequency/code
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2020-06-30T00:59:42 < aandrew> yes, another reason why I am thinking of a TDMA approach
2020-06-30T01:00:04 < Cracki> meaning you have control of all nodes, and you can give each node its dedicated time slot?
2020-06-30T01:00:06 < aandrew> and yes, network access is another layer but it might make things easier to think in those terms
2020-06-30T01:00:07 < Cracki> that'd be easy
2020-06-30T01:00:09 < aandrew> yes
2020-06-30T01:00:10 < aandrew> I already do that
2020-06-30T01:00:20 < aandrew> er already have that, I developed a nice TDMA network on nRF51/52/24
2020-06-30T01:00:28 < Cracki> ok, time synchronization. idea? just genlock to gps?
2020-06-30T01:00:38 < aandrew> no, to each other
2020-06-30T01:00:41 < aandrew> already have code that does that
2020-06-30T01:00:52 < aandrew> now the clock TREE that'd be needed here is trickier
2020-06-30T01:01:00 < Cracki> precisely
2020-06-30T01:01:03 < aandrew> GPS is accurate long term, not short term which is what TDMA needs
2020-06-30T01:01:20 < Cracki> I'd adjust a node's time to be the mean phase of all the other audible nodes
2020-06-30T01:01:32 < Cracki> nail one to gps and the whole network will mostly stay put
2020-06-30T01:02:19 < Cracki> some buffer time to allow some jitter and signal propagation delay
2020-06-30T01:03:35 < Cracki> 300 m / µs should be negligible, you said ~250 m
2020-06-30T01:04:07 < Cracki> if you have enough bandwidth, you could do dumb repeating broadcasts
2020-06-30T01:04:07 < aandrew> right
2020-06-30T01:04:17 < aandrew> yeah that would be a good first approach
2020-06-30T01:04:26 < Cracki> every node resends every frame of the previous n-1 nodes
2020-06-30T01:05:04 < Cracki> (that it heard from other nodes)
2020-06-30T01:06:01 < Cracki> is this for human audio? what latency would be tolerable? <30ms is imperceptible, 100-200 ms is starting to be annoying
2020-06-30T01:06:53 < Cracki> worst case latency is node Z hearing node A's packet only after one full cycle
2020-06-30T01:07:09 < Cracki> i.e. you have a pearl string of nodes
2020-06-30T01:08:34 < Cracki> you said you don't need/expect N:N. one could use the air time more economically than resending everything
2020-06-30T01:08:47 < Cracki> it would make things nice and dumb tho
2020-06-30T01:16:24 < Cracki> I guess you could give an audio packet a TTL (and a source + sequence number) and every resend decreases the TTL, so eventually it's "fading away", and receivers know if they've seen it already
2020-06-30T01:16:56 < Cracki> that would mean capacity for just a few packets per resend instead of reserving space for a packet from every node
2020-06-30T01:17:24 < Cracki> TTL being expected diameter of graph
2020-06-30T01:22:39 < Cracki> let's say 10 nodes, 1 ms slot per node or 10ms "cycle", worst case ~90 ms to propagate if nodes are in a line
2020-06-30T01:23:07 < Cracki> and that 1ms must be enough to hold ~10 packets of 10ms audio each
2020-06-30T01:23:32 < Cracki> or less if you don't expect the worst case
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2020-06-30T01:26:06 < Cracki> guaranteed channels are expensive like that. you could come up with collision avoidance instead
2020-06-30T01:26:44 < kakimir> rf?
2020-06-30T01:26:52 < kakimir> there is no guarantees
2020-06-30T01:27:10 < Cracki> let's assume nobody interferes
2020-06-30T01:27:35 < Cracki> mesh ish meshy
2020-06-30T01:27:49 < kakimir> if you can afford to assume
2020-06-30T01:28:13 < Cracki> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Contention_(telecommunications)
2020-06-30T01:32:43 < Cracki> lack of infrastructure makes things look like anarchy
2020-06-30T01:33:05 < Cracki> the CHAZ already learns that rapes will happen if you don't hang perps
2020-06-30T01:33:32 -!- oofus_ [~quassel@88.97.72.251] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds]
2020-06-30T01:34:49 < Cracki> their little child soldiers are getting perforated in the turf wars
2020-06-30T01:36:47 < Cracki> "news" stations can't send their busty blondes to the scene. instead they send the maid.
2020-06-30T01:41:43 < kakimir> what are you talking about?
2020-06-30T01:41:46 < kakimir> germany?
2020-06-30T01:42:05 < kakimir> germany 2020
2020-06-30T01:42:31 < aandrew> Cracki: yes, human audio, I suspect latency has to be under 50-75ms or you start talking over each other
2020-06-30T01:43:04 < aandrew> and this would all be streaming, I would not have any retransmit (other than mesh propagation)
2020-06-30T01:44:22 < aandrew> just wait until they start stringing up people 1800s style
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2020-06-30T02:05:26 < Cracki> retransmit is for propagation
2020-06-30T02:05:45 < Cracki> don't bother trying to figure out a spanning tree
2020-06-30T02:06:20 < Cracki> just let it spread while decreasing ttl
2020-06-30T02:06:32 < Cracki> the only ones who will be strung up are whites
2020-06-30T02:06:54 < Cracki> in south africa whites are butchered or burned to death every week
2020-06-30T02:07:51 < Cracki> starving zimbabwe is pleading for whitey to return and make the fields bear fruit again very shortly after they chased them all out or murdered them
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2020-06-30T02:27:26 < strata> https://www.oshwa.org/a-resolution-to-redefine-spi-signal-names
2020-06-30T02:28:20 < aandrew> yeah
2020-06-30T02:29:13 < aandrew> COPI/CIPO, lol
2020-06-30T02:30:09 < strata> dumbest shit ever
2020-06-30T02:30:16 < aandrew> love how these idiots think changing names will make anything better in any way
2020-06-30T02:30:29 < strata> it won't. it's actually making things worse
2020-06-30T02:31:04 < strata> "lets rename all the instances of the word 'slave' so we can ignore the fact that we're all slaves to the banking cartels"
2020-06-30T02:32:09 < Cracki> the plan is to destroy all sense and meaning in the world. erase all history.
2020-06-30T02:32:23 < Cracki> commies always do it. commies are a plague.
2020-06-30T02:33:32 < Cracki> oh no, bunnie of bunniestudios "endorsed" that evilness
2020-06-30T02:34:16 < Cracki> great, it's infected openzfs too
2020-06-30T02:35:01 < Cracki> they'll have to rename "drivers" too because it really means "slave driver" and that's a nono
2020-06-30T02:36:18 < Laurenceb_> https://media.thedonald.win/thedonald/post/e54lPbjv.jpeg
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2020-06-30T02:59:39 < ds2> java programmers are really really distrubing
2020-06-30T03:00:03 < ds2> running gradle on the same source code results in different behavior depending on when it was run :(
2020-06-30T03:00:28 < Cracki> wat
2020-06-30T03:01:17 < Cracki> I came close to using maven once. not sure about gradle. whatever it was, was very java and very alien.
2020-06-30T03:01:40 < ds2> all their build tools are just downright distrubing
2020-06-30T03:01:52 < ds2> but then I can saw the same of most FPGA tools :(
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2020-06-30T03:32:27 < aandrew> nah, FPGA tools are archaic, but they're consistent
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2020-06-30T03:37:53 < Cracki> people can only get up to so much trouble with a TCL interpreter, eh
2020-06-30T03:48:33 < aandrew> heh
2020-06-30T03:48:49 < aandrew> I've seen some downright amazing and disgusting things done in tcl
2020-06-30T03:59:32 < ds2> not when you ahve to keep updating the licenses
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2020-06-30T04:20:07 < upgrdman> whats the name for the tool that carpenters use to mark or measure an angle on a piece of wood. looks like a ruler with a protractor permanently attached to it.
2020-06-30T04:22:08 < upgrdman> oh, "combination square" https://www.harborfreight.com/12-in-combination-square-set-63688.html
2020-06-30T04:25:02 < Cracki> that's a sextant
2020-06-30T04:26:45 < Streaker> its called a carpenter's square
2020-06-30T04:27:13 < Streaker> nevermind. I misread the question.
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2020-06-30T04:29:43 < Laurenceb_> Molyneuxed
2020-06-30T04:30:05 < Laurenceb_> when u spend 14 yrs of ur lief making bullshit clickbait trash to earn youtube advertising bucks
2020-06-30T04:30:26 < Laurenceb_> but then youtube thinks you are a liability and throws you overboard
2020-06-30T04:30:51 < Laurenceb_> I once met a grrrl whowas obsessed with Molyneux
2020-06-30T04:30:56 < Laurenceb_> bad news
2020-06-30T04:36:46 < Laurenceb_> wtf Chapotraphouse got b&
2020-06-30T04:36:58 < Laurenceb_> now no reason to visit reddit ironically
2020-06-30T04:37:03 < Laurenceb_> fail
2020-06-30T04:41:35 < Cracki> REDdit is purging. the reds are always purging.
2020-06-30T04:41:38 < Cracki> it's in their blood.
2020-06-30T04:41:54 < Cracki> you are impure, you must be eradicated
2020-06-30T04:42:40 < Laurenceb_> >when she starts ranting about lipstick and social signalling
2020-06-30T04:42:56 < Laurenceb_> >then pms molyneux to settle the argument
2020-06-30T04:43:26 < Cracki> bloody pms
2020-06-30T04:44:07 < Cracki> lipstick = can't raep the willing
2020-06-30T04:44:14 < Cracki> or what do you mean
2020-06-30T04:44:28 < Laurenceb_> something like that
2020-06-30T04:44:50 < Laurenceb_> >molyneux moving to lbry.tv
2020-06-30T04:44:55 < Cracki> I hope Generation Alpha will be as alpha as the name promises
2020-06-30T04:44:56 < Laurenceb_> wtf even is that 
2020-06-30T04:45:19 < Cracki> random sites is where old boomers go to fade into irrelevance
2020-06-30T04:45:42 < Laurenceb_> >>1412335
2020-06-30T04:45:42 < Laurenceb_> lad if you don't give stefan molyneux $10 then Heraclitus will die
2020-06-30T04:45:49 < Laurenceb_> kek based channer
2020-06-30T04:45:55 < Cracki> herawat
2020-06-30T04:46:00 < Laurenceb_> exactly
2020-06-30T04:46:02 < Cracki> cleetus
2020-06-30T04:46:06 < Laurenceb_> lol
2020-06-30T04:46:15 < Cracki> kommissar cleetus. find the copypasta.
2020-06-30T04:46:30 < Cracki> *commissar cletus
2020-06-30T04:46:52 < Cracki> https://external-preview.redd.it/rPbcpIb4obXEPWE97BxrA1MaQrFVH_wj_gxi0VP_ERo.jpg?auto=webp&s=54658c2492768478b6f26a9af85cef90640bcc76
2020-06-30T04:47:48 < Laurenceb_> >webp
2020-06-30T04:47:55 < Laurenceb_> wtf I hate that trash
2020-06-30T04:48:00 < Cracki> same
2020-06-30T04:48:07 < Cracki> commie format
2020-06-30T04:49:03 < Cracki> music is getting slower. can't march to that.
2020-06-30T04:49:34 < Laurenceb_> >have to use online converter so I can import into gimp
2020-06-30T04:49:36 < Laurenceb_> ffs
2020-06-30T04:49:45 < Cracki> gimp can't do webp?!? lol
2020-06-30T04:50:02 < Cracki> this says it can https://www.gimp.org/news/2018/11/08/gimp-2-10-8-released/
2020-06-30T04:50:06 < Cracki> are you running debilian stale?
2020-06-30T04:50:34 < Laurenceb_> yeah
2020-06-30T04:50:39 < Laurenceb_> dino edition
2020-06-30T04:50:46 < Laurenceb_> need to upgrade one day...
2020-06-30T04:50:56 < Cracki> I thought they were against fossil fuel
2020-06-30T04:52:10 < Cracki> debian on a rollercoaster: *cries like a bitch* continental plates: *tectonicing*
2020-06-30T04:52:41 < Laurenceb_> lol saddit is full of b& SJWs
2020-06-30T04:52:50 < Laurenceb_> inb4 they take over
2020-06-30T04:53:02 < Cracki> they eat their own?
2020-06-30T04:53:43 < Laurenceb_> yup
2020-06-30T04:53:51 < Laurenceb_> radfems lol
2020-06-30T04:54:15 < Cracki> serves them right for starving millions to death in 1932
2020-06-30T04:55:31 < Laurenceb_> TheTiredLesbian 71 insightful - 6 fun - 7 hours ago 
2020-06-30T04:55:31 < Laurenceb_> I am honestly furious that this happened. Reddit left violent porn, MRA bullshit, and subs telling women to "choke on girldick" 
2020-06-30T04:55:34 < Laurenceb_> keeekkk
2020-06-30T04:55:44 < Cracki> lol
2020-06-30T04:56:02 < Cracki> femboy death squads will choke you out
2020-06-30T04:57:42 < Laurenceb_> >I'm pissed beyond belief. Reddit is a colossal fuck-up of a site and if they want to pander to delusional, misogynist men, fine. I'm out. 
2020-06-30T05:00:10 < Cracki> lol
2020-06-30T05:00:39 < Cracki> meanwhile most of the book burning hit "right wing" subreddits
2020-06-30T05:00:56 < Cracki> they're just butthurt for getting caught in the crossfire
2020-06-30T05:01:32 < Cracki> when they killed tumblr, all the rainbow nutcases flooded into twadder. it's been awful.
2020-06-30T05:02:06 < Cracki> if they destroy reddit where will these monsters go? haxxor news?
2020-06-30T05:07:49 < Laurenceb_> saddit apparently
2020-06-30T05:09:49 < Cracki> twitch banned trump's account
2020-06-30T05:09:56 < Cracki> who knew he had a twitch
2020-06-30T05:11:07 < Laurenceb_> the cringe is real
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2020-06-30T07:22:59 < jadew`> has anyone ghettoed a coax to waveguide transition?
2020-06-30T07:23:21 < jadew`> and a waveguide and a horn antenna...
2020-06-30T07:24:52 < jadew`> nvm, found a cheap transition
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2020-06-30T08:09:06 < soreau> Cracki: For the record, these are the relevant sketches I wrote to exercise my stm32f1 audio support here https://github.com/rogerclarkmelbourne/Arduino_STM32/tree/master/STM32F1/libraries/USBComposite/examples micadc, microphone, micserial, speaker, tonegenerator, tonegeneratorserial
2020-06-30T08:09:29 < Cracki> thx, noted
2020-06-30T08:10:16 < soreau> All of them appear as a usb microphone expcept speaker, because there's an ADC but no DAC
2020-06-30T08:10:45 < soreau> hence the comment
2020-06-30T08:12:49 < soreau> unfortunately, it's not very clear because apparently all patches to https://github.com/arpruss/USBComposite_stm32f1 get lumped together as one mass commit 'upstream' (github.com/rogerclarkmelbourne/Arduino_STM32)
2020-06-30T08:14:23 < soreau> Cracki: So for the simplest case, you can use tonegenerator or tonegeneratorserial to make the device appear as a USB microphone to the host without connecting anything on the breakout
2020-06-30T08:15:35 < soreau> and it works on linux, windows and android
2020-06-30T08:15:38 < soreau> fuck apple :P
2020-06-30T08:26:59 < Cracki> hehehe
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2020-06-30T08:39:32 < Cracki> moar launch 19:55 utc unless I'm wrong https://twitter.com/SpaceX/status/1277809612478050304
2020-06-30T08:44:33 < Cracki> ok so that esp1488 "power saving" stuff is mostly bull because my wifi seems "busy" which wakes it up all the time, which is weird because there's nothing really going on with it
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2020-06-30T10:21:33 < soreau> it's spying on you
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2020-06-30T12:34:09 < karlp> hrm, stencil from jlcpcbis enormous
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2020-06-30T13:03:16 < mawk> are you french soreau 
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2020-06-30T13:59:06 < Mangy_Dog> https://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/product/B07BGW66BJ
2020-06-30T13:59:18 < Mangy_Dog> Ok last night ordered one and getting it on thuirsday... ill be using this to control the heat output... BUT! I need to come up with a way to use my atmega328 to replace this control unit... Its got pins 5 g zero and scr... I plan to turn this thing on and monitor the signal on the sillyscope... but Does anyone already know how this works?  I have a suspision, that zero is a timing signal from 
2020-06-30T13:59:18 < Mangy_Dog> when AC passes zero, and scr will be some kind of duty cycle sinced to that zero?
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2020-06-30T14:18:06 < karlp> why didn't you just buy a plain ssr then?
2020-06-30T14:19:57 < karlp> https://www.amazon.co.uk/fengzong-SSR-25DA-Module-24-380V-Plastic/dp/B08BCDPGN9/ would hav ebeen half the price and no "how does work, how do I connect it"bullshit
2020-06-30T14:21:27 < Mangy_Dog> i do have a plane ssr
2020-06-30T14:21:49 < Mangy_Dog> hense why im getting light flicker as i cant control its voltage
2020-06-30T14:22:34 < karlp> you wat?
2020-06-30T14:23:48 < Mangy_Dog> im doing slow pwm
2020-06-30T14:23:58 < Mangy_Dog> as the ssr has a 10ms switching limit
2020-06-30T14:25:27 < srk> ssrCtrlPer <- period (Milliseconds 10) 
2020-06-30T14:25:27 < srk> :)
2020-06-30T14:26:16 < Mangy_Dog> well actually in this case the pwm call is every 1ms, but thats for setting duty cyclle steps
2020-06-30T14:26:22 < Mangy_Dog> on 100 steps
2020-06-30T14:26:30 < Mangy_Dog> bitbanged pwm 
2020-06-30T14:26:34 < Mangy_Dog> fun
2020-06-30T14:26:41 < srk> each period it checks, if positive turns on ssr, starts counting down and disables on 0
2020-06-30T14:27:01 < Mangy_Dog> basically what im doing
2020-06-30T14:27:07 < englishman> modulating a 100Hz signal with a 60Hz signal and you wonder why the output isnt constant
2020-06-30T14:27:17 < karlp> how are you thinking moving the pwm to something external isgoingto magically fix this?
2020-06-30T14:27:18 < Mangy_Dog> 50hz
2020-06-30T14:27:25 < Mangy_Dog> but its not synced
2020-06-30T14:27:28 < karlp> and where do you getthis10ms switching limit for your ssr?
2020-06-30T14:27:37 < Mangy_Dog> off the ssr datasheet
2020-06-30T14:27:58 < Mangy_Dog> englishman and its not that its not consistant
2020-06-30T14:28:12 < PaulFertser> karlp: if it turns on only on zero crossing, it's that. If it allows turning on at arbitrary moment, then it'll be heating up due to turn-on losses.
2020-06-30T14:28:15 < Mangy_Dog> its that the pwm is basically too slow
2020-06-30T14:28:24 < Mangy_Dog> and the inrush is causing lights to flicker in the house
2020-06-30T14:28:27 < Mangy_Dog> its an old house
2020-06-30T14:28:29 < Mangy_Dog> old wireing
2020-06-30T14:28:34 < Mangy_Dog> and only a 60amp feed in
2020-06-30T14:28:40 < karlp> the inrush into what?
2020-06-30T14:28:47 < PaulFertser> karlp: into halogen heater
2020-06-30T14:29:21 < srk> I want to build zero crossing enabled one next, ssr is weird for this
2020-06-30T14:29:31 < srk> with triacs..
2020-06-30T14:29:40 < PaulFertser> Mangy_Dog: probably the simplest way would be get get a beefy enough wire straight to the house electricity input for this purpose?
2020-06-30T14:30:15 < PaulFertser> Mangy_Dog: I mean if it's only the flickering due to the old wiring that's bothering you.
2020-06-30T14:31:33 < Mangy_Dog> tbh the halogen flicker is bothering me too even though its still nto quite going dark worried the pulsing will damage it... sooo now that i ordered the dimmer control... might as well use it and keep things smooth
2020-06-30T14:33:48 < PaulFertser> How is it going to work, that dimmer control?
2020-06-30T14:33:56 < karlp> "magic"
2020-06-30T14:34:05 < englishman> my reflow oven switches elements with like a 2 second period
2020-06-30T14:34:25 < englishman> maybe 5
2020-06-30T14:36:15 < srk> yeah, even slow relay control will do
2020-06-30T14:36:48 < srk> with SSR you have an illusion of some more control granularity :D
2020-06-30T14:37:36 < srk> which is pretty useless since it takes like 30 seconds since any change is registered
2020-06-30T14:45:29 < karlp> my brewkettle defaults to 5 seconds, can select 1 .. 20 iirc
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2020-06-30T14:53:19 < PaulFertser> karlp: the question is whether something like that is suitable for halogen.
2020-06-30T14:54:34 < Mangy_Dog> umm even before the halogen my heat up rates were 2c per second
2020-06-30T14:54:41 < Mangy_Dog> the halogen jumps to around 6 or 7c per second
2020-06-30T14:55:41 < karlp> isn't the controllow mangyboughtjsut an ssrwith some push buttons?
2020-06-30T14:55:49 < Mangy_Dog> the 10hz pwm wasnt working out... so the dimmer is the better option right now
2020-06-30T14:56:06 < Mangy_Dog> harlk its a dimmer control
2020-06-30T14:56:11 < Mangy_Dog> karlp
2020-06-30T14:56:57 < Mangy_Dog> from what i can tell before testing it, it has zero crossing detection and poutput, which is why im guessing the scr is a duty cycle thats latched to that clock
2020-06-30T14:57:26 < Mangy_Dog> and for what ever reason has a much faster response than the ssr i had already
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2020-06-30T14:57:52 < Mangy_Dog> and the ssr isnt just some dodgy chinese one like the one you linked
2020-06-30T14:57:58 < Mangy_Dog> though is made in china :p
2020-06-30T15:07:13 < englishman> maybe a halogen lamp isn't a great idea for a precise reflow oven?
2020-06-30T15:11:42 < Cracki> hey jadew` , someone sent me to a random dailymail article and I looked at what else the rag is printing and I saw this in the side column https://www.dailymail.co.uk/tvshowbiz/article-8474013/Zara-McDermott-shows-bloated-stomach-topless-snap-stuffing-face-spag-bol.html
2020-06-30T15:14:57 < PaulFertser> Mangy_Dog: what's a dimmer exactly, how does it work?
2020-06-30T15:15:46 < Cracki> Mangy_Dog, can you post that datasheet
2020-06-30T15:16:31 < Cracki> 10ms = one half wave of 50 Hz mains. maybe it also doesn't wanna shut *off* outside of zero crossings, which would be inexplicable to me
2020-06-30T15:18:18 < PaulFertser> A TRIAC just can't shut off not on zero.
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2020-06-30T16:08:33 < Mangy_Dog> https://uk.rs-online.com/web/p/solid-state-relays/1025545/
2020-06-30T16:08:40 < Mangy_Dog> https://docs.rs-online.com/5fb2/0900766b814c6563.pdf
2020-06-30T16:08:57 < Mangy_Dog> paul and how the dimmer works... im not totally sure yet
2020-06-30T16:09:09 < Mangy_Dog> it might be duty cycling ac mians
2020-06-30T16:09:11 < Mangy_Dog> mains
2020-06-30T16:09:40 < Mangy_Dog> Cracki thats the ssr ive been using
2020-06-30T16:10:28 < Cracki> those are output specs
2020-06-30T16:10:47 < Cracki> the 10 ms mean in the worst case it'll switch on 10 ms after you've told it to, because it waits for zero crossing
2020-06-30T16:10:55 < Cracki> uh nvm, turn off
2020-06-30T16:11:11 < Cracki> so... it seems you can switch it on anytime, but it'll only turn off at zero crossing
2020-06-30T16:11:39 < Cracki> I think that's effectively equivalent to on at zero, off anywhere
2020-06-30T16:12:27 < Cracki> so... sense zero crossings, turn on at the right time in the phase, tell it to turn off before zero crossing, it'll turn off at zero crossing, you got your dimming
2020-06-30T16:13:42 < Cracki> ... if you have the R type (ordering info)
2020-06-30T16:14:34 < Cracki> https://electronics.stackexchange.com/questions/429917/would-it-be-possible-to-use-a-solid-state-relay-as-a-dimmer-switch
2020-06-30T16:15:45 < Cracki> https://hackaday.com/2017/09/26/an-introduction-to-solid-state-relays/
2020-06-30T16:17:11 < aandrew> yep; triac based solid state relays always turn off at the zero crossing, and when exactly "zero crossing" is can move with inductive or capacitive loads
2020-06-30T16:17:24 < aandrew> IGBT or FET based SSRs can turn off arbitrarily
2020-06-30T16:17:49 < aandrew> but "zero-crossing" labelled SSRs only turn on at a zero crossing to minimize switching noise
2020-06-30T16:17:55 < dongs> Cracki: this link is much better https://hackaday.com/2020/06/29/updating-the-language-of-spi-pin-labels-to-remove-casual-references-to-slavery/
2020-06-30T16:18:04 < aandrew> they're useless for phase control, but most people aren't stupid enough to try to do phase control with an SSR so you're good :-)
2020-06-30T16:19:04 < Cracki> I can live with sdi/sdo labels but I'm still gonna put whips and chains artwork in the copper pour
2020-06-30T16:20:17 < Cracki> i'd have thought they're bothered by the Schutz Staffel part of slave select, instead of the slave select...
2020-06-30T16:23:15 < Cracki> ok zfs goes out the window. found "blog" posts by openbsd peeps criticizing its scope creep and overall engineering
2020-06-30T16:23:39 < aandrew> I'm still here using mdadm and lvm
2020-06-30T16:23:39 < srk> :)
2020-06-30T16:23:56 < dongs> > 100tb on ntfs here with zero isseus
2020-06-30T16:24:00 < dongs> enjoy your lunix fagotry, dweebs
2020-06-30T16:24:18 < Cracki> NT just sounds cool
2020-06-30T16:24:19 < aandrew> although I may move to an LSI hardware RAID because I have this 4U 24 bay SAS chassis I want to use
2020-06-30T16:24:37 < aandrew> NT4 was amaze. win2k was amaze. everything went downhill from there
2020-06-30T16:24:53 < Cracki> does the LSI hw raid come with a battery backup for the cache?
2020-06-30T16:25:10 < aandrew> it does, yes, but I don't care for that, my entire server is on a pair of UPSes
2020-06-30T16:25:12 < srk> RedHat has a project similar to ZFS but composed of lvm, luks, mdadm, (xfs|btrfs) and glued with json and one zfs like management utility
2020-06-30T16:25:18 < Cracki> good good
2020-06-30T16:25:24 < aandrew> srk: wow that sounds like Linux
2020-06-30T16:25:25 < srk> Stratis..
2020-06-30T16:25:30 < Cracki> glued with json, y u no xml
2020-06-30T16:25:36 < aandrew> it's not web 2.0 enough
2020-06-30T16:25:37 < srk> not hip anymore
2020-06-30T16:25:44 < Cracki> should have used d(ouche)bus for glue
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2020-06-30T16:25:49 < srk> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stratis_(configuration_daemon)
2020-06-30T16:25:56 < srk> I'm on BTRFS now
2020-06-30T16:26:06 < Mangy_Dog> gonna read that in a bit cracki ive got to do some shopping
2020-06-30T16:26:07 < Cracki> layers upon layers of gnu droppings
2020-06-30T16:26:12 < aandrew> I'm xfs on LVM on mdadm
2020-06-30T16:26:13 < Cracki> happy looting
2020-06-30T16:26:22 < srk> of course d-bus is used
2020-06-30T16:26:30 < Cracki> yikes
2020-06-30T16:26:48 < Cracki> btrfs, frozen butter is more solid
2020-06-30T16:27:02 < aandrew> I hear dongs was using reiserfs
2020-06-30T16:27:02 < Cracki> *melted
2020-06-30T16:27:04 < srk> sure :)
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2020-06-30T16:27:45 < Cracki> sacrificial wife(?) pleases the gods of the magnetic domains
2020-06-30T16:28:23 < Cracki> our "admins" forced btrfs on us, then blamed us for the "decision" (because we nodded blankly when they asked)
2020-06-30T16:28:50 < Cracki> it's been horror for the past 5+ years. shit slows to a crawl if you approach full space utilization
2020-06-30T16:29:20 < dongs> imagine using lunix on desktop
2020-06-30T16:29:22 < Cracki> idgaf if I'm blaming a tool for a meatbag's incompetence or the other way around. they go hand in hand.
2020-06-30T16:35:24 < Cracki> hahahaa we're all slaves >This is not about the computers or chips or PCBs.  This is about the people who have to work IN THE FIELD.
2020-06-30T16:36:04 < Cracki> wat euphemism are they gonna come up with for "race condition"
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2020-06-30T17:23:45 < kakinull> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ss9NTWLXllQ Moustache Machine - Miami 1986 Part II
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2020-06-30T17:39:14 < bitmask> hi
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2020-06-30T18:18:19 < englishman> fresh windows 10 install and new gtx1660 on work desktop
2020-06-30T18:18:23 < englishman> back to innovating
2020-06-30T18:18:31 < englishman> *windows 10 pro
2020-06-30T18:18:48 < englishman> also that new qvo 1tb ssd
2020-06-30T18:19:22 < englishman> sure am glad I'm not wasting a week recompiling kernel, there is shit to do
2020-06-30T18:20:23 < soreau> mawk: yes
2020-06-30T18:22:46 < jadew`> I switched to edge
2020-06-30T18:23:21 < jadew`> it's the same with chrome, except the address bar still has the full address
2020-06-30T18:27:13 < jadew`> blocks google tracking lol
2020-06-30T18:27:20 < jadew`> out of the box
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2020-06-30T18:51:44 < braindamage> microsoft wants to compete with google & co about user tracking, it's no surprise
2020-06-30T18:52:21 < jadew`> yeah, there are some really nice features that you have to disable to get out of that
2020-06-30T18:54:00 < jadew`> for example the smart screen, which would warn you if you're about to navigate to a malicious website
2020-06-30T18:54:21 < jadew`> unfortunately, that probably means that they'll send all the links to microsoft for review
2020-06-30T18:54:54 < jadew`> if they didn't I guess it wouldn't be in the "Privacy" section
2020-06-30T18:56:53 < jadew`> https://twitter.com/scriptjunkie1/status/1152280517972299777
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2020-06-30T19:03:54 < jadew`> also, apparently the smart screen for files is worse
2020-06-30T19:04:11 < jadew`> it sends the file name with the full path and URL of where it was downloaded from
2020-06-30T19:04:30 < jadew`> I thought they're using the local antivirus, but nope
2020-06-30T19:04:46 < jadew`> so microsoft knows all the porn I've watched so far
2020-06-30T19:05:50 < jadew`> https://www.bleepingcomputer.com/news/microsoft/windows-10-smartscreen-sends-urls-and-app-names-to-microsoft/
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2020-06-30T20:08:16 < mawk> which part of filthy frog-eater country are you from soreau ?
2020-06-30T20:18:13 < soreau> ...
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2020-06-30T22:40:05 < fenugrec> so I was forced out of my cave and am now using stm32cubeideomgwtf on a team project. Already broken because the .ioc cube file was "created with cubemx 5.6.1. your current version is 5.6.0" . With no obvious way of updating to 5.6.1, only 5.7.0 which will no doubt cause breakage everywhere else
2020-06-30T22:41:38 < Cracki> edit it, fuck the version string
2020-06-30T22:41:48 < Cracki> it's all one big key value store anyway
2020-06-30T22:42:55 < Cracki> soreau, he is too
2020-06-30T22:44:53 < Cracki> t-25min, spacex is gonna land another first stage on droneship https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6zr0nfG3Xy4
2020-06-30T22:45:43 < Cracki> they originally had it 15 mins earlier (window is 15min). guess the weather sucks.
2020-06-30T23:02:14 < PaulFertser> fenugrec: if the team forced you why do not they sort it out?
2020-06-30T23:02:48 < Cracki> my guess is because they can't
2020-06-30T23:03:37 < fenugrec> PaulFertser, they aren't able to (yet), and I actually want this to work. So in the meantime I bitch and complain about the situation
2020-06-30T23:04:16 < PaulFertser> :(
2020-06-30T23:05:46 < PaulFertser> fenugrec: do you really need to change any pin mappings or somesuch?
2020-06-30T23:06:37 < Steffanx> The best thing about the cube ioc code generation is when it keeps importing a library that is broken
2020-06-30T23:06:45 < PaulFertser> Surely you do not need all that filth just for compiling?
2020-06-30T23:07:17 < fenugrec> Also I'm very much an eclipse newb. Why can't I open a project on disk ? oh it has to be in a "workspace". Ok, use the default workspace... crap, it had a garbage project I thought I had deleted. FInally get the project open. Now I have to sift through a mess of local copies of stm_HAL_driver, somehow there's duplicates in the project tree
2020-06-30T23:07:21 < Steffanx> Or when the gdb it ships with is broken.
2020-06-30T23:08:06 < fenugrec> "need", maybe not, but I will say it was nice to mess around in the cube thing to try pin assignments, easy clock tree, pin naming... I see the interest
2020-06-30T23:21:13 < Cracki> fenugrec, think of workspaces as "solutions", i.e. containers for projects. it's silly. java people have weird models of the world.
2020-06-30T23:25:04 < fenugrec> Cracki, thanks. hopefully I won't have to deal with that aspect too much
2020-06-30T23:28:41 < PaulFertser> Does ecplise allow to move a project to another filesystem path these days?
2020-06-30T23:31:05 < Cracki> I *think* it still needs to be inside the workspace's directory
2020-06-30T23:31:12 < Cracki> so renames at most
2020-06-30T23:32:22 < fenugrec> I think I currently have them in separate dirs, i.e.  $workspace/../$project
2020-06-30T23:33:36 < PaulFertser> heh, so much weirdness in the insanity land
2020-06-30T23:34:08 < PaulFertser> And not in a "yellow submarine"-weird way, unfortunately.
2020-06-30T23:34:30 < Mangy_Dog> Ok gonna need a little advise... So assuming this dimmer controllers wiring is as i assume, Zero will be the AC cycle trigger at zero point... Weather thats rising zero or lowering zero or both im not sure yet will check with scope when it turns up... And assuming SCR is a output duty control that needs to be synced to that zero clock...  is this the basic correct method ot syncing to and 
2020-06-30T23:34:30 < Mangy_Dog> runnign duty cycles for the AC, take the zero clock, wire that to an input interupt, and the interupt resets a timer, messuring the time between zeros as well. And the timer based on some mathfu, then interupts at set point to HIGH ir LOW my output based on required duty?
2020-06-30T23:34:40 < Mangy_Dog> advice
2020-06-30T23:36:53 < Mangy_Dog> ie basically input interupt takes the clock signal, and sets the timers own interupt to run pin high or low
2020-06-30T23:37:47 < Mangy_Dog> that about right?
2020-06-30T23:38:21 < fenugrec> typical SCR will stop conducting at zero current (every zero-crossing), so you decide when to turn it on, upto 180deg away
2020-06-30T23:38:48 < aandrew> you can't use a zero-cross device for phase control; the on-time is defined as the zero cross (in either direction). You can do wave counting (i.e. only turn on one cycle out of 10 for 10% duty cycle, but that's only really useful for resistive heating type of applications
2020-06-30T23:39:19 < aandrew> you don't need cubemx to use the code
2020-06-30T23:39:25 < aandrew> or any IDE
2020-06-30T23:40:40 < Mangy_Dog> this wil be on an arduino :p
2020-06-30T23:40:45 < Mangy_Dog> so no cubemx
2020-06-30T23:42:40 < Mangy_Dog> https://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/product/B07BGW66BJ aandrew fenugrec, ive got one of these on the way... and i need to get my mcu to take over what the panel controller is doing
2020-06-30T23:46:43 < fenugrec> then probably like you said; wait for a pulse on Zero (twice per period), then decide when to fire SCR, and make sure you're not triggering the SCR before the next zero cross ?
2020-06-30T23:48:43 < fenugrec> strictly speaking it's probably a triac rather than a single SCR
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--- Log closed Wed Jul 01 00:00:05 2020