--- Log opened Sat Aug 01 00:00:36 2020
--- Day changed Sat Aug 01 2020
2020-08-01T00:00:36 < jadew> Steffanx, yeah, but windows releases don't happen that often
2020-08-01T00:00:50 < jadew> anyway, things are back to normal now
2020-08-01T00:01:18 < jadew> and I got my new tweezers: http://188.25.38.80/stuff/20200731_225104.jpg
2020-08-01T00:01:37 < jadew> it feels different from the cheap ones
2020-08-01T00:01:43 < jadew> less force required
2020-08-01T00:02:09 < jadew> also, the tip doesn't seem to move off center if you apply force laterally, rather than strict vertically
2020-08-01T00:03:06 < jadew> the opening is perfect for SO8, bigger things won't fit
2020-08-01T00:03:29 < jadew> but then again, I wouldn't have picked bigger things with it anyway, because it has the wrong tip angle for that
2020-08-01T00:04:18 < jadew> unlike the cheap chinese one, the tip of the tip is flat, even if it's only .15 mm wide
2020-08-01T00:11:35 < zyp> what tweezers did you get?
2020-08-01T00:11:41 < zyp> your link doesn't work
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2020-08-01T00:14:52 < jadew`> zyp, sorry power went down again
2020-08-01T00:15:12 < jadew`> http://188.26.15.195/stuff/20200731_225104.jpg
2020-08-01T00:15:31 < zyp> nice
2020-08-01T00:15:34 < jadew`> ideal-tek 3.SA
2020-08-01T00:15:41 < zyp> I should probably get some new tweezers too
2020-08-01T00:16:10 < zyp> I have some nice ones, but they are old
2020-08-01T00:16:16 < jadew`> I'll get one or two more after this one, but I want to see what it's like when actually using it
2020-08-01T00:16:55 < zyp> they were ordered along with the parts for my uni final project, and thus paid for by the project budget
2020-08-01T00:17:17 < zyp> don't remember how much they cost, just that it was more than I'd expect
2020-08-01T00:17:46 < jadew`> heh
2020-08-01T00:18:25 < jadew`> yeah, good ones seem to be a bit more than you'd expect, but I assume they also last a lot longer
2020-08-01T00:19:06 < Steffanx> Lolol. Jadew. Self hosting 😅
2020-08-01T00:19:33 < jadew`> Steffanx, :D
2020-08-01T00:19:47 < jadew`> hey, the uptime is still 99.9% :P
2020-08-01T00:19:57 < jadew`> old one: http://188.26.15.195/stuff/WIN_20200731_21_08_56_Pro.jpg
2020-08-01T00:20:04 < jadew`> new one: http://188.26.15.195/stuff/WIN_20200731_16_13_28_Pro.jpg
2020-08-01T00:21:18 < zyp> https://bin.jvnv.net/file/yg4ot.jpg https://bin.jvnv.net/file/G3OsK.jpg
2020-08-01T00:21:30 < zyp> I've managed to bend one of the tips
2020-08-01T00:21:34 < Steffanx> Awh
2020-08-01T00:21:40 < zyp> but it still works well
2020-08-01T00:21:45 < jadew`> looks good
2020-08-01T00:21:48 < jadew`> how did you bend it?
2020-08-01T00:21:58 < zyp> I don't even remember when it happened
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2020-08-01T00:25:19 < jadew`> there's an offer for these tweezers in the US on newark
2020-08-01T00:25:22 < jadew`> only $10
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2020-08-01T02:26:42 < Steffanx> no link to that mr jadew`?
2020-08-01T02:29:37 < jadew`> Steffanx, https://www.newark.com/ideal-tek/3-sa/tweezer-precision-ss-straight/dp/35M0951
2020-08-01T02:30:00 < jadew`> farnell doesn't stock them tho
2020-08-01T02:30:08 < jadew`> they have different brands
2020-08-01T02:43:58 < Steffanx> hm
2020-08-01T02:45:45 < jadew`> Steffanx, I hear ideal-tek makes the tweezers for lindstrom too
2020-08-01T02:45:50 < jadew`> and farnell has lindstrom
2020-08-01T02:46:09 < jadew`> they look a little different tho and the price is not much different from idea-tek on TME
2020-08-01T02:46:42 < jadew`> *ideal
2020-08-01T02:50:43 < jadew`> this one looks good too: https://www.tme.eu/ro/en/details/idl-10g.sa.0/precision-tweezers/ideal-tek/10g-sa-0/
2020-08-01T02:50:49 < jadew`> 0.55 mm tip width
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2020-08-01T16:05:57 < mawk> Steffanx: https://serveur.io/supergay.png
2020-08-01T16:10:10 < Steffanx> ok mawk
2020-08-01T16:11:12 < mawk> please help my launch my outrage campaign
2020-08-01T16:11:20 < mawk> it is blatant sexual harrassement
2020-08-01T16:11:46 < mawk> actually I'm tempted to show this picture to the blond guy in the photo, to see what he does
2020-08-01T16:12:13 < Steffanx> The only issue i would have is if this photo was taken without permission
2020-08-01T16:23:49 < Steffanx> You must be very bored mawk
2020-08-01T16:30:54 < mawk> why :(
2020-08-01T16:30:58 < mawk> I'm just planning to go to that store
2020-08-01T16:31:01 < mawk> so I saw the reviews
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2020-08-01T20:11:24 < kakinull> anyone used m.2 as pci-e peripheral port?
2020-08-01T20:11:39 < kakinull> m.2 intended for nvme storage use*
2020-08-01T20:12:13 < kakinull> should there be anything to make it any diffferent from normal pci-e port?
2020-08-01T20:22:32 < kakinull> m-keyed ports on mobos
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2020-08-01T21:05:03 < zyp> kakinull, I have, there's no difference for the pcie interface itself
2020-08-01T21:05:19 < zyp> it's a plain 4x slot
2020-08-01T21:05:53 < zyp> but it only has 3.3V available
2020-08-01T21:06:13 < zyp> m.2 to pcie adapters need a 12V supply as well
2020-08-01T21:11:39 < kakinull> can I split 16x pci to multiple cards?
2020-08-01T21:11:44 < kakinull> pci-e
2020-08-01T21:14:16 < kakinull> I'm having pretty restricted build
2020-08-01T21:14:31 < kakinull> m-itx
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2020-08-01T21:29:26 < Steffanx> whats the plan kakinull
2020-08-01T21:29:34 < kakinull> you tell me
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2020-08-01T21:33:55 < Steffanx> -_-
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2020-08-01T21:42:38 < kakinull> you are asking big questions
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2020-08-01T21:50:58 < Steffanx> ok kakinull
2020-08-01T21:51:30 < kakinull> very sensitive questions
2020-08-01T21:53:45 < Steffanx> You're just a sensitive boy it seems
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2020-08-01T23:19:15 < Mangy_Dog> anyone want to have a look over my serial code? https://hastebin.com/obirenopiy.cpp
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2020-08-01T23:54:22 < catphish> at a glance it looks pretty simple / sensible
--- Day changed Sun Aug 02 2020
2020-08-02T00:10:07 < zyp> framing and handshake layer looks a bit overcomplicated
2020-08-02T00:14:44 < zyp> e.g. the endFrame serves no real purpose
2020-08-02T00:16:28 < zyp> you have a length field, and when you've read that many bytes of data and then a valid checksum, you already know you have a complete command without requiring an end marker
2020-08-02T00:17:37 < zyp> and even if you didn't have a length field, you could merge the start and end markers into a single frame delimiter, like what SLIP and HDLC does
2020-08-02T00:18:03 < zyp> but yeah
2020-08-02T00:18:23 < zyp> keeping the startFrame is useful, as that lets you sync up the receiver
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2020-08-02T00:23:20 < aandrew> what happens if you see an 0x02 in the payload? do you ahve a way to escape it?
2020-08-02T00:23:34 < aandrew> ah yes you do, I see it now
2020-08-02T00:23:45 < aandrew> this looks very close to framing code I've used between micros before
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2020-08-02T00:37:44 < Laurenceb> https://files.catbox.moe/h4d5b9.jpg
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2020-08-02T01:27:10 < Laurenceb> I've seen things you lads wouldn't believe. Wiggum posts on fire off the shoulder of the thread. I watched chinks glitter in the dark getting crushed under escalators. All those moments will be lost in time, like tears in rain
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2020-08-02T02:24:14 < Laurenceb> argggg
2020-08-02T02:24:19 < Laurenceb> >1.5k words
2020-08-02T02:24:34 < Laurenceb> >ARPA-UK application 30% complete
2020-08-02T02:24:41 < Laurenceb> the stte of this shit
2020-08-02T02:24:45 < Laurenceb> *state
2020-08-02T02:29:17 < t4nk_freenode> just keep us posted
2020-08-02T02:32:08 < Laurenceb> its hardly worth it
2020-08-02T02:32:18 < Laurenceb> I could just get a jerb writing adverts or something
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2020-08-02T03:01:45 < Laurenceb> https://gh.bmj.com/content/5/7/e002922
2020-08-02T03:04:28 < Laurenceb> the real issue with coronavirus
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2020-08-02T03:43:48 < jadew`> karlp, that show you said you also enjoyed - I just finished it and I think it was one of the best I've ever seen
2020-08-02T03:43:57 < jadew`> top 5 for sure
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2020-08-02T03:51:18 < jadew`> might be the best
2020-08-02T03:55:57 < jadew`> test
2020-08-02T03:56:02 < jadew`> timezone was wrong
2020-08-02T03:56:20 < jadew`> oh, and I have updates on the tweezers
2020-08-02T03:56:31 < jadew`> used it all day today
2020-08-02T03:57:12 < jadew`> because of the small tip opening, it's only good for very small stuff (smaller than SO8)
2020-08-02T03:57:35 < jadew`> it's extremely comfortable for resistors, caps, transistors, ETC
2020-08-02T03:59:17 < jadew`> but it's only slightly bigger than an SO8 package, so you only have to grip a little in order to secure the part (because it requires very little force to close it), which means that if you want to release the part, you won't have enough pressure on the tweezers itself, and if it's in a vertical position, it can actually fall from your hand
2020-08-02T03:59:49 < jadew`> so right now, for bigger packages I'm using the old one
2020-08-02T03:59:58 < jadew`> for small ones it's just great
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2020-08-02T05:19:59 < karlp> jadew`: dark? german time issues thing?
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2020-08-02T12:29:48 < rapha> hi all
2020-08-02T12:30:13 < rapha> in the stm32f042 datasheet, what do they mean by "three-phase" PWM for TIM1?
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2020-08-02T12:49:31 < emeryth> rapha: it has functions useful for driving three-phase motors
2020-08-02T12:53:54 < rapha> emeryth: okay, cool. but that's not in the way of generating three independent-duty-cycle pwm signals from it, correct?
2020-08-02T12:55:46 < rapha> hmm ... since this is my first time not using a pre-made dev board...
2020-08-02T12:55:52 < rapha> https://i.imgur.com/rgkY2lr.png am i doing anything wrong in here?
2020-08-02T12:57:16 < emeryth> no, the channels are completely independent and can be used as any generic timer
2020-08-02T12:57:41 < rapha> yay! :-D
2020-08-02T12:59:08 < emeryth> rapha: pull BOOT0 to ground with a resistor and add a button for the other option, 99% of the time you want it that way
2020-08-02T12:59:41 < emeryth> https://www.st.com/resource/en/application_note/dm00051986-getting-started-with-stm32f0x1x2x8-hardware-development-stmicroelectronics.pdf
2020-08-02T12:59:46 < emeryth> and check out this document
2020-08-02T13:00:35 < rapha> emeryth: even on boards that end up being programmed once and then put in an enclosure, never to be touched again, you put the button instead of something like the solder jumper i gave here?
2020-08-02T13:02:15 < rapha> oh! long document! 
2020-08-02T13:02:19  * rapha browses around
2020-08-02T13:05:44 < rapha> hmm ... looking at 5.1, i _was_ hoping to get away with a 2-layer board. does it make sense to try for top = VDD, bottom = VSS, and then cut through both with traces as required? or would you make both top and bottom VSS?
2020-08-02T13:08:24 < emeryth> well of course if you don't plan on using the built-in bootloader, you don't need a button
2020-08-02T13:09:58 < rapha> i'm unsure about that. rn my theory is that programming via USB works with the built-in bootloader, whereas programming via SWD doesn't?
2020-08-02T13:11:07 < jpa-> rapha: VDD plane is not particularly important, better just keep VSS as uncut as you can
2020-08-02T13:11:39 < rapha> okay
2020-08-02T13:11:58 < jpa-> and have decoupling capacitors close to VDD pins
2020-08-02T13:12:03 < rapha> so VSS on the bottom, try to keep traces to the top as much as possible
2020-08-02T13:12:12 < jpa-> yeah
2020-08-02T13:12:15 < rapha> k
2020-08-02T13:14:59 < rapha> hmm, the bottom of section 3 looks like indeed programming via SWD doesn't need the embedded boot loader
2020-08-02T13:15:55 < jpa-> yeah, it doesn't
2020-08-02T13:17:25 < zyp> with two layers you generally want to do a ground pour in both layers and stitch them together to form a reasonable ground plane
2020-08-02T13:18:05 < zyp> even better if you can run most of the signals in top layer to avoid cuts in the bottom ground plane
2020-08-02T13:18:24 < rapha> okay
2020-08-02T13:19:39 < zyp> e.g. like this: https://bin.jvnv.net/file/bNsJP.png https://bin.jvnv.net/file/3b50p.png
2020-08-02T13:21:50 < rapha> that looks neat
2020-08-02T13:22:32 < rapha> okay, after reading through the Getting Started PDF emeryth linked me to, my schematic looks like this now: https://i.imgur.com/Avti6LH.png
2020-08-02T13:23:36 < zyp> I'd use a standard pinout for J1
2020-08-02T13:24:17 < rapha> that means a huge header
2020-08-02T13:24:33 < zyp> not necessarily
2020-08-02T13:24:36 < rapha> and i don't even own a cable that would fit on that
2020-08-02T13:24:55 < zyp> you could use a five or six pin header like that, just with the same order of signals as the stlinks, for example
2020-08-02T13:25:06 < rapha> hmm okay
2020-08-02T13:25:57 < zyp> IIRC it goes something like VDD, SWC, GND, SWD, RESET, SWO or something, and F0 doesn't have SWO so you can leave that one out
2020-08-02T13:26:42 < zyp> it's a minor thing but even with jumper wires it's easier when you can hook them up 1:1
2020-08-02T13:26:52 < rapha> point taken
2020-08-02T13:27:07 < zyp> also, you don't need to connect VBAT
2020-08-02T13:27:45 < zyp> VBAT is only ever used when VDD is not powered, so connecting it to the same source as VDD is not useful
2020-08-02T13:27:51 < rapha> the Getting Started guide says: "If no external battery is used in the application, it is recommended to connect VBATexternally to VDD"
2020-08-02T13:29:29 < rapha> or is that specific to the F058?
2020-08-02T13:29:45 < zyp> I don't see how it makes a difference, and if it can simplify routing to skip it, then you might as well
2020-08-02T13:29:59 < zyp> then again, I'd skip C3 as well
2020-08-02T13:31:06 < zyp> in my experience stm32 is well behaved without any external shit hooked up to NRST, and I like skipping unnecessary stuff
2020-08-02T13:31:22 < rapha> hmm, seems some of these are not rules, but more personal preference
2020-08-02T13:31:57 < rapha> i think i will put the pads for C3 on the first iteration of the board and play with that
2020-08-02T13:32:10 < zyp> yeah, a lot of design rules have to do with robustness wrt. noise and stuff
2020-08-02T13:32:22 < zyp> that goes for the ground plane stuff as well
2020-08-02T13:32:26 < rapha> oh, seems the capacitive touch feature needs one cap for each channel
2020-08-02T13:34:13 < zyp> I tend to put some effort into getting a nice ground plane, take a balanced approach to decoupling and skip some other shit like external pullups/downs that are supposed to be unnecessary
2020-08-02T13:34:53 < rapha> seems i should take some time to develop opinions on that
2020-08-02T13:35:11 < zyp> so I expect I'm overdoing some parts of my designs and fucking up others :)
2020-08-02T13:35:31 < rapha> :)
2020-08-02T13:35:58 < rapha> have you ever used the capacitive touch stuff? i'm wondering if _any_ gpio may be used for placing the external C?
2020-08-02T13:36:33 < zyp> no, but I expect the answer would be no
2020-08-02T13:38:27 < zyp> I looked at how it worked once, IIRC there's a bunch of analog switches that can be turned off and on to connect stuff to the sense circuitry
2020-08-02T13:39:05 < zyp> I seem to recall that there were some group stuff, and that the cap can be on an arbitrary IO in a particular group
2020-08-02T13:40:09 < rapha> Ah, again they're saying: "For operation, one capacitive sensing GPIO in each group is connected to an external capacitor and cannot be used as effective touch sensing channel."
2020-08-02T13:40:36 < rapha> Hmm, so I think I'll want to use two groups.
2020-08-02T13:42:02 < zyp> that's what I thought
2020-08-02T13:42:29 < zyp> so each group needs one channel hooked to a capacitor
2020-08-02T13:49:10 < rapha> zyp: this is how i understand it at the moment: https://i.imgur.com/Zlu0DOF.png
2020-08-02T13:57:46 < emeryth> rapha: why aren't you connecting VDDA?
2020-08-02T13:58:20 < rapha> emeryth: not using the ADC
2020-08-02T13:59:06 < rapha> oh wait. the capacitive touch controller is probably powered through there. ouch!
2020-08-02T13:59:10 < emeryth> you're not going to be using the microcontroller without VDDA
2020-08-02T13:59:39 < zyp> VDDA must always be powered regardless of whether you use the ADC or not
2020-08-02T14:00:22 < rapha> emeryth: now i'm wondering about the commandment to power VDDA up _first_ ... how does one achieve that without a very fancy power converter IC? simply through the 4.7uF cap on VDD?
2020-08-02T14:00:38 < zyp> no, that's not required
2020-08-02T14:00:38 < Mangy_Dog> Having a strange issue with my checksum, funnily enough its working on my receiving mcu not throwing any errors. But the resualting checmsum value is wrong when compared to adding up on my calculator... https://hastebin.com/oceyafunig.cpp 
2020-08-02T14:00:56 < emeryth> rapha: just connect it to VDD and don't worry
2020-08-02T14:01:07 < zyp> the requirement is that VDD is not powered _before_ VDDA, same time is perfectly okay
2020-08-02T14:01:17 < rapha> emeryth: will the capacitive touch controller be happy being powered from an SMPS?
2020-08-02T14:01:24 < rapha> zyp: okay
2020-08-02T14:05:14 < zyp> Mangy_Dog, looking
2020-08-02T14:07:35 < zyp> Mangy_Dog, you must have made a mistake when adding by hand:
2020-08-02T14:07:35 < zyp> >>> sum(b'\x02\xa0ABCDEFGHIJKLMNO\n')
2020-08-02T14:07:36 < zyp> 1252
2020-08-02T14:07:54 < Mangy_Dog> hmmmmmm
2020-08-02T14:10:04 < rapha> oh cooool! https://www.st.com/resource/en/application_note/dm00085385-improve-conducted-noise-robustness-for-touch-sensing-applications-on-mcus-stmicroelectronics.pdf
2020-08-02T14:10:27 < rapha> wondering if i should add the little thingo from 5.12
2020-08-02T14:11:53 < rapha> otoh, it's only intended for turning off, not for improving the detection quality
2020-08-02T14:12:05 < rapha> and i only have 0/1 buttons, nothing analog
2020-08-02T14:15:56 < rapha> https://i.imgur.com/HjpCSsN.png looks like can now give a shot at routing
2020-08-02T14:16:11 < emeryth> rapha: I've used the touch controller and it's hard to screw up for simple buttons
2020-08-02T14:16:33 < emeryth> even if you go against the design guidelines
2020-08-02T14:16:34 < rapha> oh cool! even with longer-ish cables, emeryth? (as in, ~15cm max)
2020-08-02T14:16:43 < emeryth> haven't tried that
2020-08-02T14:16:49 < rapha> yours were on-PB?
2020-08-02T14:16:51 < rapha> PCB*
2020-08-02T14:16:58 < emeryth> yes
2020-08-02T14:17:08 < rapha> i see
2020-08-02T14:17:31 < rapha> my dielelectric will be glass, wondering how that will affect things
2020-08-02T14:19:09 < Mangy_Dog> thanks zyp yeah 1352.... i really dont know what was wrong with the calculator.... i looked it over and over and the sum was right but i just rewrote the sum in the calc and its coming out correct now 1252.... very confusing.... chinese phone chinese calc software thats all i can summise i think
2020-08-02T14:19:57 < Mangy_Dog> 1252
2020-08-02T14:20:00 < Mangy_Dog> i mean not 1352
2020-08-02T14:20:35 < Steffanx> dont blame the calculator :P
2020-08-02T14:21:10 < Mangy_Dog> well im happy to blame myself i make tons of mistakes...... but really i looked it over and over and i couldnt find if i missed one of the letters to add up...
2020-08-02T14:21:48 < Mangy_Dog> just really was very very confusing
2020-08-02T14:22:49 < rapha> man i love that LibrePCBs board and schema and component files are just lisp-like text files. it might not be as mature as KiCAD but it's sure more fun to use already in many ways :)
2020-08-02T14:24:08 < Steffanx> You have plans to manually edit those files?
2020-08-02T14:24:14 < rapha> sometimes i do
2020-08-02T14:24:50 < Mangy_Dog> strange boy
2020-08-02T14:25:27 < rapha> it's at version 0.1.4 ... copy-paste doesn't work everywhere, so there's cases where it's easier to edit them by hand to duplicate things. but that affords you all the capabilities of your text editor, too, which can be real nice.
2020-08-02T14:25:43 < rapha> "strange boy" i'll take as a compliment, thank you
2020-08-02T14:27:07 < Steffanx> Isnt librepcb a onemanshow?
2020-08-02T14:29:48 < Mangy_Dog> just strange youd want to go edit vector locations by hand in text with no true visual representation
2020-08-02T14:29:57 < Mangy_Dog> kinda masacistic
2020-08-02T14:29:59 < Mangy_Dog> :p
2020-08-02T14:37:05 < rapha> Steffanx: judging from the activity on IRC, i think more like a 3-man-show
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2020-08-02T15:31:50 < PaulFertser> Got my SARS-CoV-2 antibodies testing results: IgM = 0.31 (more than 2.0 would mean the infection is active); IgG = 0.36 (more than 10.0 would mean long-term immunity).
2020-08-02T15:33:56 < Steffanx> Bought your "i survived corona" T-shirt yet, PaulFertser ?
2020-08-02T15:34:56 < Steffanx> Who did your test? Random company or something more official?
2020-08-02T15:35:47 < Steffanx> *random lab
2020-08-02T15:36:27 < PaulFertser> Steffanx: state lab, free
2020-08-02T15:36:49 < PaulFertser> Steffanx: registered online the same way I would register for any other medical appointment.
2020-08-02T15:37:35 < PaulFertser> Steffanx: unfortunately, the results say I have no immunity yet, so too early for the T-shirt.
2020-08-02T15:37:48 < PaulFertser> Got results online too.
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2020-08-02T16:06:10 < rapha> PaulFertser: so you were infected but your case was mild?
2020-08-02T16:06:38 < rapha> PaulFertser: also, what country?
2020-08-02T16:23:18 < PaulFertser> rapha: russia. AFAICT, the results say I wasn't ever infected.
2020-08-02T16:24:01 < PaulFertser> rapha: I thought I might have been because a month ago I had slightly elevated temperature (~37.1) for almost a week, and felt weakness.
2020-08-02T16:37:27 < mawk> that was just from the drugs I put into your morning tea PaulFertser , it wasn't corona
2020-08-02T17:10:46 < Mangy_Dog> YAY ITS OVER!
2020-08-02T17:11:01 < Mangy_Dog> i think my receiving serial code is 99% locked down
2020-08-02T17:11:49 < Mangy_Dog> i was having one little off semi predictable checksum error comming round... then figured out it was because the sending data wasnt esc'ing when the simple test code i had running hit one of the special byte characters
2020-08-02T17:12:04 < Steffanx> Hah. ;)
2020-08-02T17:12:41 < Mangy_Dog> i was just ++ one of the character bytes in the sending code without doing anything special with it
2020-08-02T17:12:47 < Mangy_Dog> so it just cycled through all the bbytes
2020-08-02T17:12:49 < Mangy_Dog> including special bytes
2020-08-02T17:13:44 < Mangy_Dog> also good news, while i do have error checking code in there.... its not triggering
2020-08-02T17:13:51 < Mangy_Dog> there are so far NO errored bytes
2020-08-02T17:14:37 < Mangy_Dog> ive still got to right code for the animation and scrolling modes
2020-08-02T17:27:28 < Steffanx> Usually an error doesnt happen that much anyway
2020-08-02T17:38:49 < Mangy_Dog> nods
2020-08-02T17:39:01 < Mangy_Dog> just wanted to make sure if it did the system wont go haywire
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2020-08-02T17:52:59 < PaulFertser> mawk: haha :) thanks for the drugs
2020-08-02T17:53:19 < PaulFertser> These days I rarely drink tea in the morning. It's either coffee or plain water for me.
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2020-08-02T18:47:11 < Steffanx> What kind of drugs was it mawk?
2020-08-02T18:47:51 < Steffanx> Which drugs elevates your temperture and makes you feel sick/weak?
2020-08-02T18:49:49 < mawk> a lot of them
2020-08-02T18:50:02 < mawk> for that I'd give a delirogenic drug
2020-08-02T18:51:03 < mawk> like dimenhydrinate or diphenhydramine
2020-08-02T18:51:07 < mawk> the thing against motion sickness
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2020-08-02T19:17:29 < rapha> PaulFertser: interesting. i know quite a number of people who describe different things. noone got themselves checked because no cough. but i do wonder if something group-psychosomatic is going on having to do with the pandemic...
2020-08-02T19:22:43 < strata> yea it's called intersectionalism
2020-08-02T19:30:05 < rapha> that word (no idea what it means?) sounds more political than psychological
2020-08-02T19:34:22 < Steffanx> Knowing from who it comes, it must be exactly that rapha ;)
2020-08-02T19:35:35 < Steffanx> Here they even want to you to get checked when you have minor coldish symptoms.. 
2020-08-02T19:36:56 < Steffanx> Getting a long swab pushed waay to far up into your nose. The joy.
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2020-08-02T19:56:18 < PaulFertser> rapha: it's easy to get checked in moscow
2020-08-02T20:18:53 < R2COM> after "checking" yourself in moscow one needs to get check in proper clinic for any infection
2020-08-02T20:28:56 < PaulFertser> Good advice, thank you.
2020-08-02T20:37:15 < R2COM> oh boy here we go again, stuck in undefined interrupt
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2020-08-02T20:45:31 < Thorn> deorbit sequence - 4 min https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tSJIQftoxeU
2020-08-02T20:57:17 < karlp> hrm, found an old cx10 drone cleaning up but I think the battery's fucked.
2020-08-02T20:57:33 < karlp> charges, and pairs, but then can't really take off more than a few cm or so
2020-08-02T21:04:58 < PaulFertser> karlp: what was the battery voltage prior to you trying to charge it?
2020-08-02T21:05:19 < karlp> no idea, it's just6 a tiny li9ttle plug on a tin y little device, you think I went for the meter first?
2020-08-02T21:05:45 < PaulFertser> y
2020-08-02T21:05:49 < PaulFertser> I would
2020-08-02T21:06:03 < karlp> 3.8vnow, when it's "dead" after a few seconds of struggling
2020-08-02T21:06:21 < karlp> battery looks puffy inside.
2020-08-02T21:06:44 < PaulFertser> btw, can anyone please recommend how I can get cheap ~70 mAh Li-Ion(-Pol) tiny battery?
2020-08-02T21:07:59 < PaulFertser> ebay offers only something unreasonably expensive
2020-08-02T21:10:59 < karlp> https://nc.beeroclock.net/s/3sCKDPK4EKEpHJY
2020-08-02T21:11:37 < karlp> mine has a 100mAh battery, nanana ;)
2020-08-02T21:12:35 < karlp> how about this one PaulFertser: https://www.aliexpress.com/cheapforpaul/32721076776.html
2020-08-02T21:12:46 < karlp> (well, not that one, it's shipping is silly, but ...)
2020-08-02T21:13:30 < karlp> though honestly, it seems that the real problem si just "hahah shipping lithium?! ahhahaahhaha it's magic..."
2020-08-02T21:14:39 < karlp> cheaper to buy the whole drone again
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2020-08-02T21:16:44 < specing> the chinese send you batteries in cheap toys, which you then throw away
2020-08-02T21:17:50 < catphish> that's the most absurdly wasteful thing
2020-08-02T21:18:20 < catphish> there needs to be a standard for shipping batteries safely that couriers accept :(
2020-08-02T21:18:51 < karlp> there is, "installed in their matchign equipment"
2020-08-02T21:18:55 < karlp> isn't it great?
2020-08-02T21:19:11 < karlp> the packing material needs to look like a toy, that's the method that they accept
2020-08-02T21:19:53 < karlp> https://www.aliexpress.com/this-one-claims-it-can/32879953487.html
2020-08-02T21:20:24 < specing> it's absolutely retarded, whoever came up with that standard should be shot
2020-08-02T21:20:42 < specing> every device manual out there tells you to remove the battery if device is not in use
2020-08-02T21:20:56 < specing> and these idiots say you can only ship batteries inside a device
2020-08-02T21:21:48 < karlp> I think the _intent_ is that when it's in the device, it's not got any exposed terminals, and is "protected" and it was the way of allowing 10000000 phones and cameras 
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2020-08-02T21:21:59 < bitmask> starting to look like a printer: https://i.imgur.com/hc9oEBQ.png?1
2020-08-02T21:23:59 < PaulFertser> karlp: I recently got one from ebay, without any "inside the toy" BS, but I got like 5 flights of my tiny coax heli resembling 2ch toy from it.
2020-08-02T21:25:39 < R2COM> china should be banned just like tiktok, ban all their shitexpress sites too
2020-08-02T21:25:51 < PaulFertser> karlp: btw, not sure why but that aliexpress link doesn't open for me.
2020-08-02T21:26:06 < R2COM> at least that stuff is shipped in cargo planes tho
2020-08-02T21:26:15 < R2COM> without passengers
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2020-08-02T21:36:44 < PaulFertser> Apparently your funny way of changing URLs doesn't work anymore karlp .
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2020-08-02T21:58:04 < qyx> Thorn: did they launch safely?
2020-08-02T21:58:36 < Thorn> landed safely a few minutes ago
2020-08-02T22:00:49 < qyx> land I meant
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2020-08-02T22:57:55 < jadew`> karlp, yeah
2020-08-02T22:58:24 < jadew`> it was very well made and coherent
2020-08-02T22:59:19 < Thorn> what do I use for isolated rs-485, something like adm2483 or a normal driver + digital isolator?
2020-08-02T23:02:09 < zyp> iso1500?
2020-08-02T23:03:13 < zyp> https://www.ti.com/isolation/isolated-interfaces/rs-485-transceivers/products.html#sort=p1130;asc
2020-08-02T23:03:30 < zyp> maybe one of the T options if you need to power the isolated side as well
2020-08-02T23:05:37 < rapha> Steffanx: so you've had a test, too? what country do you live?
2020-08-02T23:06:12 < rapha> PaulFertser: here in Germany it's not that easy at all. i've heard stories of people who had to fight on the phone for hours with loads of back and forth...
2020-08-02T23:07:04 < rapha> yay! finally finished the PCB started this morning!
2020-08-02T23:07:06 < rapha> https://imgur.com/a/NzZ8yaA
2020-08-02T23:07:17 < Steffanx> no, i did not rapha
2020-08-02T23:07:33 < Steffanx> But seeing it on TV is enough info for me 
2020-08-02T23:07:39 < rapha> (thanks again for all the help!)
2020-08-02T23:07:50 < Steffanx> and im from dutchland
2020-08-02T23:07:56 < PaulFertser> rapha: I had antibodies test, and Steffanx was talking about qRT-PCR test for the virus itself most likely.
2020-08-02T23:08:04 < Steffanx> Yes, what he said
2020-08-02T23:08:21 < rapha> had to have a long steel pipe pushed up my nose for checking my scuba diving fitness ... fuck that was the most violent thing ever
2020-08-02T23:08:23 < PaulFertser> But I can get tested for virus as easily these days too.
2020-08-02T23:08:48 < rapha> goede avond naar de nederlands, Steffanx :)
2020-08-02T23:09:10 < zyp> I think I could get the PCR test pretty easily nowadays if I had symptoms
2020-08-02T23:09:18 < Steffanx> hehe, such dutch.
2020-08-02T23:09:21 < zyp> but I'm not sure about the antibody test
2020-08-02T23:09:50 < Steffanx> im not sure about that one here either
2020-08-02T23:10:07 < zyp> I mean, I figure there's not much benefit to society as a whole for me to get an antibody test, so why would I get one?
2020-08-02T23:10:23 < zyp> I believe private clinics can do those for pay
2020-08-02T23:12:21 < rapha> (my dutch is actually non-existant, except for a few words here and there, e.g. "osdorp" and "posse")
2020-08-02T23:13:09 < rapha> zyp: https://imgur.com/a/NzZ8yaA ... tried to go with the stuff you said
2020-08-02T23:13:43 < PaulFertser> zyp: moscow's rich :)
2020-08-02T23:13:50 < Steffanx> lol idk what "posse" would be rapha :P
2020-08-02T23:13:57 < qyx> rapha: you dare not draw a ground symbol upside down
2020-08-02T23:14:09 < qyx> not a single one
2020-08-02T23:14:27 < zyp> rapha, looks reasonable at a glance, except you want more ground vias
2020-08-02T23:15:03 < zyp> rule of thumb: put a ground via close to every grounded smt pad
2020-08-02T23:15:36 < zyp> not much point in having a nice ground plane on the bottom layer if the components in the top layer doesn't have a good connection to it :)
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2020-08-02T23:16:19 < rapha> qyx: in the schematic you mean? yeah, i'm a bad boy that way.
2020-08-02T23:16:31 < rapha> Steffanx: apparently it's like a "gang" ... seems to be hip hop language.
2020-08-02T23:16:46  * rapha goes and plasters the board in gnd vias
2020-08-02T23:17:02 < Steffanx> Are there no holes in the gnd pins of the pin headers or does librepcb simply not (not) draw the holes?
2020-08-02T23:17:31 < Steffanx> looks weird :P
2020-08-02T23:18:27 < Steffanx> nevermind that lol
2020-08-02T23:20:03 < rapha> hmm does look weird
2020-08-02T23:20:10 < rapha> let me check the aisler rendering
2020-08-02T23:20:41 < rapha> must be a (new?) bug ... aisler does have htem
2020-08-02T23:21:29 < Steffanx> nah
2020-08-02T23:22:46 < Steffanx> Dont you have alike a 100nF for each of your individual VDDx pins btw? You seem to have all your 4 caps in a row on the right.
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2020-08-02T23:23:26 < zyp> ah, missed that part
2020-08-02T23:23:33 < zyp> that's also a good point
2020-08-02T23:23:34 < Steffanx> And placed pretty close to the actually VDDx pin on the PCB.
2020-08-02T23:23:46 < zyp> the whole point of a bunch of 100nF caps is to get one close to each supply pins
2020-08-02T23:23:57 < Steffanx> *or semi-close or whatever you want to name this "closeness"
2020-08-02T23:23:58 < zyp> bunching them up is pointless
2020-08-02T23:24:22 < zyp> the 4.7u can be wherever, that's bulk capacitance, so you can move that one away
2020-08-02T23:24:31 < zyp> the 100n caps should be close
2020-08-02T23:25:30 < zyp> rule of thumb: place one 100nF cap close to each supply pin (or group of close located supply pins)
2020-08-02T23:25:44 < rapha> okay
2020-08-02T23:25:49 < zyp> that's why the number of 100nF caps changes with the number of supply pins
2020-08-02T23:26:08 < zyp> a chip with only one VDD gets away with only one
2020-08-02T23:26:16 < zyp> a chip with ten VDDs might need ten
2020-08-02T23:29:12 < rapha> i'm not good with 0402s but i do wonder if i might risk it for all those 100n now
2020-08-02T23:30:33 < zyp> all?
2020-08-02T23:30:44 < zyp> you only need three or so
2020-08-02T23:31:13 < Steffanx> all. :P
2020-08-02T23:31:51 < zyp> unless you're going for super compact, 0603 isn't that big
2020-08-02T23:32:01 < zyp> https://bin.jvnv.net/file/rtOzS.jpg <- 0603 is still small next to a qfp
2020-08-02T23:32:34 < qyx> such resolution
2020-08-02T23:32:46 < zyp> https://bin.jvnv.net/file/ut1HQ.png <- 0402 next to qfn
2020-08-02T23:32:47 < qyx> I have a conceptual question
2020-08-02T23:33:24 < qyx> lets have a board generating a precise clock of, lets say, 10MHz
2020-08-02T23:33:51 < qyx> and a board consuming such clock input
2020-08-02T23:33:58 < qyx> the clock is distributed over a backplane
2020-08-02T23:34:26 < qyx> the question is, how should the clients/receivers handle the clock line in case it is unavailable
2020-08-02T23:34:30 < rapha> oh, an 052 ... what did you choose that for over the 042 that i'm using zyp?
2020-08-02T23:34:53 < qyx> because the clock generator may become unresponsive, broken, hot-unplugged, etc
2020-08-02T23:35:22 < qyx> should I do a sort of reference-clock-driven-oscillator thing?
2020-08-02T23:35:40 < qyx> or steer a vctcxo using some pll algo?
2020-08-02T23:35:52 < zyp> qyx, my fpga board is using a si5332 that both got internal crystal and external input
2020-08-02T23:35:58 < zyp> but I haven't considered hot-switching
2020-08-02T23:36:07 < zyp> rapha, cortex-m0 vs cortex-m0+
2020-08-02T23:36:24 < zyp> the former lacks SCB_VTOR which is required to sanely make custom bootloaders
2020-08-02T23:37:35 < Steffanx> Also L052 vs F042. 
2020-08-02T23:38:09 < qyx> zyp: great ic except it is too complicated
2020-08-02T23:38:31 < qyx> I have 2 clock lines on the backplane and I usually need to clock only a stm32 + external ADC
2020-08-02T23:38:39 < qyx> I'll check the others
2020-08-02T23:38:55 < qyx> but still I dont know if it supports the feature I am asking for
2020-08-02T23:39:13 < emeb> zyp: have you tried messing around with nmigen at all?
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2020-08-02T23:49:16 < qyx> zyp: found ICs for exactly this purpose with ref clock holdover
2020-08-02T23:49:19 < zyp> emeb, not yet
2020-08-02T23:49:30 < qyx> Si5383 for example
2020-08-02T23:49:44 < qyx> even supports 1PPS input
2020-08-02T23:49:54 < emeb> it's interesting. converted some of my wireless DSP stuff to nmigen the other day.
2020-08-02T23:50:52 < zyp> emeb, I've looked at it and it looks great, but at the same time I use the litex stuff which is a pretty big project to port from migen to nmigen
2020-08-02T23:51:47 < emeb> zyp: yeah. apparently there's some work underway to provide that sort of function in nmigen, but for now litex is way ahead.
2020-08-02T23:52:06 < emeb> I'm not even sure exactly what the differences between migen and nmigen are though.
2020-08-02T23:52:26 < zyp> I could of course write nmigen and use it as a black box in litex (e.g. like the minerva cpu)
2020-08-02T23:52:33 < emeb> yep
2020-08-02T23:52:37 < zyp> but that makes stuff like litescope less convenient
2020-08-02T23:53:03 < emeb> and I guess there's even another flavor - omigen.
2020-08-02T23:53:09 < zyp> so I've concluded that for the time being I'll rather stay with migen, and port stuff at a convenient time in the future
2020-08-02T23:53:26 < zyp> haven't heard about that
2020-08-02T23:53:54 < emeb> could be that omigen is just another word for "original migen"
2020-08-02T23:54:02 < zyp> that's what google seems to suggest
2020-08-02T23:54:58 < zyp> some of the improvements I've noted are syntax stuff
2020-08-02T23:55:15 < zyp> e.g. using context managers
2020-08-02T23:56:30 < emeb> ah - the "with" stuff.
2020-08-02T23:57:02 < emeb> gotta admit that stuff is very new to me. python newb
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--- Day changed Mon Aug 03 2020
2020-08-03T00:03:05 < zyp> I've been considering writing a build framework for fpga stuff, I'm a bit annoyed by the lack of dependency checking when litex builds stuff
2020-08-03T00:03:54 < zyp> I mean, the fpga build process itself is pretty linear, everything goes into synthesis, which gives you one output to p&r
2020-08-03T00:04:52 < emeb> I know what you mean. 
2020-08-03T00:05:00 < zyp> but then you add a bunch of steps like firmware generation for stuff to go into ROM, metadata generation, bitstream loading, etc…
2020-08-03T00:05:12 < emeb> synthesis vs simulation
2020-08-03T00:05:17 < zyp> that too
2020-08-03T00:05:47 < rapha> zyp: okay, seems that one of the VDDx doesn't actually exist on my small package. apart from that, changed it around to have 1x100n next to each VDDx and also have lots of GND, at least one next to each GND-connected pad: https://aisler.net/p/PPSGGKAP
2020-08-03T00:05:51 < zyp> and all of a sudden it makes sense to track whether enough changed that you should rerun synthesis/p&r or not
2020-08-03T00:05:56 < emeb> I keep wishing there was something like make, but they've chosen to do it all with pythonisms
2020-08-03T00:07:00 < zyp> I considered attempting to plug the scons dependency engine into the litex build system, but the scons people told me it wasn't designed to be embeddable despite the original design docs claiming it was intended to :p
2020-08-03T00:07:22 < emeb> grumble.
2020-08-03T00:07:28 < rapha> oh, ouch, those SMD pad jumpers look _bad_
2020-08-03T00:07:46 < zyp> so I'm considering doing it the other way and adding stuff to scons to understand fpga tools
2020-08-03T00:07:53 < emeb> stupid thing is that the toolchain does support intermediate stuff - when you just change code with ecpram, etc.
2020-08-03T00:08:41 < zyp> yeah, as long as the toolchain supports that I'd just fill dummy data before synthesis and always fill the rom after
2020-08-03T00:09:07 < zyp> doesn't make sense to do both, and after saves time for firmware changes
2020-08-03T00:09:29 < emeb> I've used that to good effect in some of my soft processor designs.
2020-08-03T00:09:41 < emeb> very helpful since code tweaks go so much faster.
2020-08-03T00:10:06 < emeb> but those were are pure verilog
2020-08-03T00:10:11 < emeb> and my own make flow
2020-08-03T00:10:38 < zyp> maybe I can use you as a sounding board if/when I attempt that project
2020-08-03T00:10:54 < emeb> sure - feel free
2020-08-03T00:11:20 < zyp> by the way, I have something else I need to do soon
2020-08-03T00:11:57 < zyp> got some issues with workstuff that has me wanting to scope RMII
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2020-08-03T00:12:23 < zyp> I don't have a LA fast enough to do that, but I figure I have a bunch of FPGA stuff that could
2020-08-03T00:12:32 < emeb> seems like a natural
2020-08-03T00:12:53 < emeb> it's only a few pins. easy to hook up to an fpga and capture or even parse
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2020-08-03T00:14:09 < zyp> I'm interested in the timing and it'd be nice if I could just load it up in sigrok or something assuming it supports RMII
2020-08-03T00:14:35 < zyp> hmm, apparently not
2020-08-03T00:15:15 < emeb> didn't jpa- do some fancy sigrok stuff? might be able to help with that.
2020-08-03T00:15:48 < zyp> but yeah, I guess the dumb and easy way to do it would be to just make a plain free running logic analyzer thing, but then I'd need to oversample 50 MHz
2020-08-03T00:16:17 < zyp> smarter would probably be to use the shared RMII REF_CLK and just clock everything from that
2020-08-03T00:16:33 < emeb> yes - since you know what the basic structure of the bus is.
2020-08-03T00:16:39 < emeb> no need to be so generic
2020-08-03T00:17:08 < zyp> how do you think the signal integrity would be if I hooked it up with jumper wires to the colorlight board? :p
2020-08-03T00:17:42 < emeb> If you have a good ground and short leads it would probably be tolerable.
2020-08-03T00:18:00 < emeb> 50MHz clock rates aren't too demanding.
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2020-08-03T00:18:47 < zyp> I figure I'll glue a header row to the board, run some thin leads from that to the 0.5mm pitch qfp switch chip, and use jumper wires from the header row to a fpga board
2020-08-03T00:19:22 < emeb> seems like a good start.
2020-08-03T00:19:49 < zyp> hmm, wait, RMII is not DDR
2020-08-03T00:20:06 < zyp> 2-bit, 50 MHz clock, that's SDR for 100Mbit
2020-08-03T00:20:52 < zyp> I was thinking I'd have to mess around with IDDR primitives
2020-08-03T00:21:44 < zyp> but… how do I tell whether CRS_DV is CRS or RX_DV then? :)
2020-08-03T00:23:14 < emeb> heh - good question. don't see any framing that could be used to sync up the cycles
2020-08-03T00:30:10 < zyp> hmm, judging by the spec, it sounds like the only situation when they are not equal is when CRS is low and RX_DV is high, resulting in toggling
2020-08-03T00:31:24 < zyp> i.e. at the start of a packet, both goes high
2020-08-03T00:31:54 < zyp> at the end of the packet, CRS goes low, CRS_DV starts toggling
2020-08-03T00:32:16 < zyp> once the PHY has emptied its fifo, RX_DV goes low, CRS_DV goes low
2020-08-03T00:34:18 < zyp> I guess the difference matters because CRS is used to time bus events (e.g. turnaround time for half duplex), while DV signals the actual data validity
2020-08-03T00:42:58 < zyp> spec has helpful graph: https://bin.jvnv.net/file/GoDEH.png
2020-08-03T00:49:35 < zyp> even better: https://bin.jvnv.net/file/mn6wG.png
2020-08-03T01:07:10 < zyp> nice, of the 24 pins I've liberated on my colorlight board, three of them are clock input capable :)
2020-08-03T01:43:18 < mawk> how did you had so many pins used in a useless manner ?
2020-08-03T01:50:15 < strata> what do you call a fugitive who hides out in a tree in australia after using math to piss off the gov? mawkedamia nut
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2020-08-03T01:53:31 < strata> however. some may have nut allergies and must take diphenhydramine. the drug can also be effective for mawkion sickness
2020-08-03T01:57:32 < mawk> lol
2020-08-03T02:05:26 < Steffanx> Mawk, this colorlight board is some china board with fpga on it
2020-08-03T02:05:48 < Steffanx> For pretty cheap
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2020-08-03T03:35:24 < zyp> mawk, https://github.com/q3k/chubby75/blob/master/5a-75b/hardware_V7.0.md
2020-08-03T03:36:34 < zyp> it's a led matrix driver, so the eight sockets are hooked to buffers making all the IO 5V outputs
2020-08-03T03:37:14 < zyp> I removed and jumpered three of the buffers, giving me 24 plain 3.3V IO
2020-08-03T03:38:46 < zyp> the fpga is decently capable and the board is $15, so it's pretty good bang for the buck
2020-08-03T03:38:47 < t4nk_freenode> what would the speed limit of those buffers be?
2020-08-03T03:39:24 < t4nk_freenode> in general
2020-08-03T03:39:30 < zyp> haven't looked it up, but I guess pretty fast since they're feeding led matrices pretty fast
2020-08-03T03:39:41 < t4nk_freenode> mm that's true
2020-08-03T03:40:31 < zyp> although on the other hand, the pixel output across all eight connectors is 48 bits wide
2020-08-03T03:40:52 < zyp> each got dual rgb
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2020-08-03T05:13:59 < dongs> > This makes the board extremely interesting because it's supported by the Yosys and NextPnR open-source backend flows
2020-08-03T05:14:05 < dongs> no, that doesn't make it interesting at all
2020-08-03T05:14:13 < dongs> that just means you're gonna get shit hw and shit sw
2020-08-03T05:14:20 < dongs> instead of just shit hw like you usually get from china
2020-08-03T05:17:49 < t4nk_freenode> jealous?
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2020-08-03T05:48:58 < R2COM> what board is that
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2020-08-03T06:03:57 < dongs> < zyp> mawk, https://github.com/q3k/chubby75/blob/master/5a-75b/hardware_V7.0.md
2020-08-03T06:03:59 < dongs> the shit zyp posted
2020-08-03T06:08:14 < R2COM> jebus
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2020-08-03T06:45:25 < R2COM> im not understanding this code
2020-08-03T06:45:28 < R2COM> https://paste.ofcode.org/iYSiY7ubsELX4VmUmSg353
2020-08-03T06:45:40 < R2COM> someone was trying to define function which defines heap for stm32f0
2020-08-03T06:45:59 < R2COM> one thing i dont get is, why that specific weird integer high number
2020-08-03T06:46:08 < R2COM> and secondly why he is doing that asm instruction
2020-08-03T06:46:26 < R2COM> couldnt he just basically do that filling loop until it reaches say __heap_end which would be defined in linker script?
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2020-08-03T07:00:25 < t4nk_freenode> Jebus.
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2020-08-03T07:35:48 < machinehum> sup
2020-08-03T07:43:18 < R2COM> zyp in your file here:
2020-08-03T07:43:24 < R2COM> https://cgit.jvnv.net/laks/tree/interrupt/interrupt.cpp
2020-08-03T07:43:46 < R2COM> _ram_end is basically a stack top?
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2020-08-03T08:25:57 < R2COM> oh
2020-08-03T08:25:59 < R2COM> motherfucker
2020-08-03T08:26:04 < R2COM> i got this shit working
2020-08-03T08:26:25 < R2COM> so yeah, _ram_end is basically addr of top of the stack in zyps shit
2020-08-03T08:27:03 < R2COM> so i built a complete *from scratch* baremetal thing in c++ for f0
2020-08-03T08:27:21 < R2COM> its just interrupt functions are done in simple way not in template way how zyp does it
2020-08-03T08:27:43 < R2COM> ill do it the other way later, now i had to basically get it running properly to main() seems it does now
2020-08-03T08:33:58 < machinehum> template<> for?
2020-08-03T08:34:11 < R2COM> for ISR functions
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2020-08-03T08:39:47 < R2COM> zyp, 2 questions: 1) i see you are doing the init of the call constructors with _init_array_start/end, in your code, you also define those variables in linker script; however, i saw some people do something like this: https://paste.ofcode.org/32fwKZ2nk4yDzD75mvYDKqs
2020-08-03T08:39:51 < R2COM> ^
2020-08-03T08:40:28 < R2COM> the difference is, they for some reason do it kind of twice...and first one they designate as "__preinit_array_start"
2020-08-03T08:41:03 < R2COM> what is the reasoning for that? that code is kind of weird because it just basically overwrites itself, init array is on top of preinit array
2020-08-03T08:41:10 < R2COM> why would one do it?
2020-08-03T08:42:06 < R2COM> and another question is... i didn't find the heap allocation in your code? so you won't be able to use new/delete then? or? where you doing it
2020-08-03T08:51:23 < R2COM> no its not overwriting itself, those are different regions
2020-08-03T08:51:43 < R2COM> but basically question #1 was, why to have so called "preinit"  array?
2020-08-03T08:55:32 < jadew`> do they still make mother boards with PCI?
2020-08-03T08:55:39 < jadew`> is that still standard?
2020-08-03T08:57:09 < R2COM> ".init_array
2020-08-03T08:57:09 < R2COM> This section holds an array of function pointers that contributes to a single initialization array for the executable or shared object containing the section."
2020-08-03T08:57:27 < R2COM> ".preinit_array
2020-08-03T08:57:27 < R2COM> This section holds an array of function pointers that contributes to a single pre-initialization array for the executable or shared object containing the section."
2020-08-03T08:57:30 < R2COM> hmm
2020-08-03T09:00:42 < R2COM> the docs still dont explain what is the practical difference between initialization and pre-initialization
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2020-08-03T09:12:15 < zyp> probably just some priority mechanism, I haven't seen anything using preinit yet
2020-08-03T09:12:37 < zyp> init_array alone has a priority mechanism that lets you put stuff higher up in the array
2020-08-03T09:13:08 < zyp> and you're correct regarding the heap, I don't do heap allocation anywhere
2020-08-03T09:13:19 < zyp> I've been able to get by without so far
2020-08-03T09:27:58 < R2COM> is heap allocation done this way making sense to you:
2020-08-03T09:27:59 < R2COM> https://paste.ofcode.org/iYSiY7ubsELX4VmUmSg353
2020-08-03T09:28:02 < R2COM> ^ ?
2020-08-03T09:28:41 < jpa-> i've always disliked the floating heap vs. stack barrier
2020-08-03T09:28:53 < jpa-> it is a recipe for making stack overflows even nastier than they otherwise are
2020-08-03T09:28:54 < R2COM> what you mean?
2020-08-03T09:29:32 < jpa-> if you allow allocating heap right up to the current MSP value, when some code path uses more stack, you might accidentally overwrite stuff in heap
2020-08-03T09:29:47 < R2COM> hmm
2020-08-03T09:30:26 < jpa-> when i bother to modify linker scripts, i allocate stack with constant size at start of ram; that way if it overflows, i'll get an exception immediately instead of a crash some time later
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2020-08-03T09:31:30 < jpa-> and similarly, i allocate heap with constant size - that way if i've tested my code and it works, it won't randomly stop working just because one static variable reduced available heap by a few bytes
2020-08-03T09:32:23 < R2COM> what if i do something like this in my linker script:
2020-08-03T09:32:24 < R2COM> https://paste.ofcode.org/3gYhKePiBneJ5sTv4FQVcZ
2020-08-03T09:32:25 < R2COM> ^
2020-08-03T09:32:26 < R2COM> ?
2020-08-03T09:32:48 < R2COM> the heap start and end is defined, and then in code i just use its __heap_end for loop stop?
2020-08-03T09:33:04 < jpa-> yes, that is better
2020-08-03T09:33:17 < jpa-> still allows stack overflows to go undetected, though
2020-08-03T09:33:24 < R2COM> btw i dont need "reserved for stack thing there"
2020-08-03T09:33:59 < R2COM> i have stack defined already
2020-08-03T09:34:00 < R2COM> https://paste.ofcode.org/n3Auw7RVRs3697mRvNB6Lz
2020-08-03T09:34:01 < R2COM> ^
2020-08-03T09:34:02 < R2COM> like that
2020-08-03T09:34:16 < R2COM> _ram_end = stack top
2020-08-03T09:35:20 < R2COM> oh no
2020-08-03T09:35:22 < R2COM> wait
2020-08-03T09:35:32 < R2COM> that one is basically just area of ram
2020-08-03T09:35:40 < R2COM> its not stack of course
2020-08-03T09:35:49 < zyp> heap grows upwards, stack grows downwards, so the normal setup is to have heap and stack growing towards each other in the free area after .data and .bss
2020-08-03T09:35:53 < R2COM> so what i showed before with "reserved for stack" is what mnust be done then
2020-08-03T09:36:08 < R2COM> hmmm
2020-08-03T09:36:20 < zyp> if you have 5k free, it doesn't really matter whether you've got 1k of heap and 4k of stack, or 3k of heap and 2k of stack
2020-08-03T09:36:41 < zyp> they can both fit until they hit each other
2020-08-03T09:37:00 < R2COM> so this way looks fine to you as well? --> https://paste.ofcode.org/3gYhKePiBneJ5sTv4FQVcZ
2020-08-03T09:37:00 < R2COM> ?
2020-08-03T09:37:09 < R2COM> they both appear at end of linker script
2020-08-03T09:37:24 < zyp> nah, that looks dumb
2020-08-03T09:37:38 < R2COM> why? how would you do it
2020-08-03T09:37:41 < zyp> my preference is to not have a section for it at all
2020-08-03T09:37:47 < R2COM> hmm
2020-08-03T09:38:10 < R2COM> no section for stack... but if one plans to use new/delete and other c++ shit, doesnt he need to define heap somehow?
2020-08-03T09:38:40 < zyp> newlib malloc calls sbrk to get memory from somewhere
2020-08-03T09:38:57 < zyp> and sbrk just needs the address to start allocating memory from
2020-08-03T09:39:33 < zyp> so all you need is to provide a symbol pointing right after the last statically allocated section
2020-08-03T09:39:42 < jpa-> yeah, the normal way is     [STATICS] [HEAP -->] [<-- STACK]   but in my opinion that is just asking for crashes when you are lazy to test after small changes,    [<-- STACK] [STATICS] [UNUSED] [HEAP -->]   gives superior predictability, with only downside being that you actually need to decide how much stack and heap you need
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2020-08-03T09:40:10 < zyp> jpa-, why unused?
2020-08-03T09:40:21 < zyp> to keep heap at a fixed size?
2020-08-03T09:40:22 < jpa-> so that heap does not reduced when you add a static variable
2020-08-03T09:40:26 < jpa-> yeah
2020-08-03T09:41:06 < jpa-> doesn't really matter at what position the unused part is, though
2020-08-03T09:41:16 < zyp> perhaps, but still
2020-08-03T09:41:30 < jpa-> keeping heap at constant location does simplify comparing crash dumps
2020-08-03T09:42:12 < R2COM> look how this guy does it here
2020-08-03T09:42:15 < R2COM> https://github.com/cortexm/baremetal/blob/master/ld/_sram.ld
2020-08-03T09:42:21 < R2COM> so... he has all stuff defined
2020-08-03T09:42:28 < R2COM> and at end just gives heap start
2020-08-03T09:42:34 < zyp> yeah, exactly
2020-08-03T09:42:35 < jpa-> like if you are tracking a complex but reproducible memory leak, if you need to add a debug variable, you don't want all addresses to change
2020-08-03T09:42:41 < zyp>  that's how I would do it
2020-08-03T09:42:45 < R2COM> hmm
2020-08-03T09:43:10 < R2COM> but that is linker script... but what he does in code i showed you with that up to MSP thing.. that part is wrong then right
2020-08-03T09:43:20 < R2COM> so question is... how high i grow heap?
2020-08-03T09:43:40 < zyp> until it hits stack and crashes
2020-08-03T09:43:57 < zyp> I mean, that's the difference between this way and jpa-'s way
2020-08-03T09:44:11 < jpa-> yeah, the way you've linked is the traditional and widely used way
2020-08-03T09:44:14 < zyp> jpa-'s way would crash earlier but more predictably
2020-08-03T09:44:17 < jpa-> it's advantage is that you don't have to pick numbers
2020-08-03T09:44:32 < jpa-> it's downside is that the numbers will change randomly
2020-08-03T09:45:21 < R2COM> what i linked last is this:    [STATICS] [HEAP -->] [<-- STACK]      correct?
2020-08-03T09:45:29 < zyp> yes
2020-08-03T09:45:58 < zyp> that's the lazy way because you don't care how big they are, they just share all remaining ram after statics are allocated
2020-08-03T09:46:28 < zyp> and as long as you have enough ram and no leaks so they never grow into each other, you won't have any problems doing it that way either
2020-08-03T09:46:48 < R2COM> but that is way used in your linker too
2020-08-03T09:46:57 < R2COM> or wait..
2020-08-03T09:46:59 < zyp> yes
2020-08-03T09:47:06 < zyp> except I don't actually use the heap
2020-08-03T09:47:14 < R2COM> right
2020-08-03T09:47:23 < zyp> so I've essentially got [STATICS] [<-- STACK]
2020-08-03T09:47:59 < R2COM> in jpa's proposal what is UNUSED?
2020-08-03T09:48:05 < R2COM> wasted space or what
2020-08-03T09:48:08 < zyp> yes
2020-08-03T09:48:17 < R2COM> but why waste?
2020-08-03T09:48:47 < zyp> jpa- is proposing to set a fixed space for stack and heap independent of how much the statics are using
2020-08-03T09:49:02 < jpa-> it's space that you don't yet know what you want to use it for
2020-08-03T09:49:15 < R2COM> ah ok
2020-08-03T09:49:21 < zyp> and if the sum of the three add up to less than total amount of memory, you've got unused space somewhere
2020-08-03T09:49:23 < jpa-> once your UNUSED space is 0 bytes, you know you've used up all your ram, and you'll know it at compile time
2020-08-03T09:50:02 < zyp> you'll also have unused space in the areas reserved for stack and heap, that way
2020-08-03T09:50:16 < R2COM> hmm
2020-08-03T09:51:28 < jpa-> i've written code that accidentally uses more heap in some code paths, and more stack in some code paths - thus the heap vs. stack barrier wanders, and you can't even set a watchpoint there to know where stuff is crashing
2020-08-03T09:51:39 < zyp> this reminds me, IIRC v8m has a stack guard feature that can trap if the stack grows past a given point
2020-08-03T09:51:54 < zyp> which means that you can sanely handle heap-stack collisions
2020-08-03T09:52:07 < jpa-> MPU can mostly do that also, even though you'll need a few unused bytes as barrier
2020-08-03T09:52:42 < jpa-> not as foolproof though, as one could allocate but never use a large variable on stack
2020-08-03T09:52:47 < zyp> you can jump the barrier by allocating a huge array on the stack
2020-08-03T09:52:48 < zyp> yeah, that
2020-08-03T09:54:45 < R2COM> so "new" thing will be allocated past the _heap_start then? (given that i defined _heap_start in startup function) ?
2020-08-03T09:55:00 < zyp> yes
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2020-08-03T09:55:31 < R2COM> and when i start my "__heap_start" loop inside startup function, where should i put "end" of it?
2020-08-03T09:55:44 < R2COM> at some constant value depending on how big i want??
2020-08-03T09:55:45 < R2COM> or..
2020-08-03T09:55:45 < zyp> wat?
2020-08-03T09:55:55 < zyp> no
2020-08-03T09:56:05 < zyp> there's no loop
2020-08-03T09:56:06 < R2COM> well, remember i showed you how guy was defining it up to MSP value, you said its bad idea
2020-08-03T09:56:10 < zyp> heap is uninitialized
2020-08-03T09:57:24 < R2COM> i mean this one:
2020-08-03T09:57:25 < R2COM> https://paste.ofcode.org/iYSiY7ubsELX4VmUmSg353
2020-08-03T09:57:36 < R2COM> what does he mean "*fill* heap memory ?
2020-08-03T09:57:59 < R2COM> what is he filling it with and why?
2020-08-03T09:58:09 < zyp> 0x45455246
2020-08-03T09:58:15 < R2COM> ..why that number?
2020-08-03T09:58:24 < zyp> it's a dummy value to check what areas have been used
2020-08-03T09:58:36 < zyp> if you later dump memory and it's different, you know it has been used
2020-08-03T09:58:37 < R2COM> ahhh
2020-08-03T09:59:05 < zyp> it's not necessary for anything to work, but might be useful for debugging
2020-08-03T09:59:13 < R2COM> so technically after having something like this in linker script:
2020-08-03T09:59:14 < R2COM>     . = ALIGN(4);
2020-08-03T09:59:14 < R2COM>     __heap_start = .;
2020-08-03T09:59:23 < R2COM> you do not need to do anything, just go ahead and use heap ?
2020-08-03T09:59:31 < R2COM> ^
2020-08-03T09:59:38 < R2COM> above stuff must be at the *end* of all shit
2020-08-03T09:59:49 < zyp> assuming you've got a sbrk that knows to use a symbol named __heap_start, yes
2020-08-03T10:00:02 < R2COM> but im using c++
2020-08-03T10:00:11 < R2COM> ill be just using "new" 
2020-08-03T10:00:15 < zyp> that's irrelevant, c++ builds on c
2020-08-03T10:00:27 < zyp> I assume default operator new will be calling malloc
2020-08-03T10:00:31 < zyp> newlib malloc calls sbrk
2020-08-03T10:00:49 < R2COM> whose responsibility is that? compiler? to call proper stuff?
2020-08-03T10:01:12 < zyp> whatever library the respective functions come from
2020-08-03T10:01:20 < zyp> idk what the default c++ lib is called
2020-08-03T10:01:34 < zyp> libc on embedded is usually newlib
2020-08-03T10:02:29 < R2COM> right now i dont include any libraries
2020-08-03T10:02:47 < R2COM> its bare c++ program (but havent used anything requiring "new" "delete" yet)
2020-08-03T10:03:06 < R2COM> im just using latest arm-none-eabi-g++ and c++17 switch
2020-08-03T10:03:57 < R2COM> ok ill check that one later and see how it goes
2020-08-03T10:04:23 < R2COM> zyp but that line with msp thing in code i showed last not clear to me
2020-08-03T10:04:27 < R2COM> what is that one for then?
2020-08-03T10:04:39 < zyp> current stack pointer
2020-08-03T10:04:59 < zyp> it fills all the unused area towards the stack and stops when it hits the stack itself
2020-08-03T10:05:01 < R2COM> so it fills all shit from __heap_start to current SP with given dummy value, ?
2020-08-03T10:05:05 < zyp> yes
2020-08-03T10:05:05 < R2COM> ok
2020-08-03T10:05:32 < R2COM> but that is kinda smart then... it means that if some shit happens all i have to do is to check for that dummy known value?
2020-08-03T10:05:41 < zyp> yes
2020-08-03T10:05:57 < zyp> if it's completely gone, heap and stack has grown into each other
2020-08-03T10:06:11 < zyp> in other words, you ran out of memory
2020-08-03T10:06:42 < R2COM> got it!
2020-08-03T10:08:47 < zyp> not strictly true, they might have used the area at different times
2020-08-03T10:12:01 < R2COM> im debugging with bmp (v1, will get 2.1 tomorrow) now 
2020-08-03T10:12:13 < R2COM> is there a way inside gdb to "print" value of memory?
2020-08-03T10:12:23 < R2COM> say... print some location from "heap" area?
2020-08-03T10:12:25 < R2COM> or?
2020-08-03T10:12:32 < PaulFertser> p/x *0x2000xxxx
2020-08-03T10:12:39 < R2COM> thanks
2020-08-03T10:16:46 < jpa-> another useful command:    x /16xw 0x20000000   prints 16 words starting there
2020-08-03T10:18:26 < R2COM> hm
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2020-08-03T10:26:20 < R2COM> is there a way of for example making some crazy thing like give gdb some valule and range of memory to scan and it will tell me at which location he found that value?
2020-08-03T10:26:39 < R2COM> given specific byte alignment of course
2020-08-03T10:27:29 < jpa-> https://sourceware.org/gdb/onlinedocs/gdb/Searching-Memory.html
2020-08-03T10:28:22 < R2COM> nice
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2020-08-03T10:37:41 < R2COM> also if i wanna print stack pointer and use: x /4xw $sp, it tells me "cannot access memory at address 0x20002000" wonder why 
2020-08-03T10:37:53 < R2COM> im doing it while paused at infinite loop inside main()
2020-08-03T10:39:26 < jpa-> because your stack pointer is at top of ram and x /4xw will try to print four words upwards from it
2020-08-03T10:39:33 < jpa-> i.e. your stack is empty
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2020-08-03T13:08:21 < effractur> ah
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2020-08-03T14:23:44 < Steffanx> Hm
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2020-08-03T15:15:37 < rapha> morning all
2020-08-03T15:15:53 < rapha> are any of you using PlatformIO, or is everyone on CubeMX and stuff?
2020-08-03T15:16:09 < rapha> (or perhaps no framework, no IDE, just some library?)
2020-08-03T15:18:41 < mawk> everyone is using cubemx
2020-08-03T15:19:02 < PaulFertser> Some use libopencm3.
2020-08-03T15:19:28 < mawk> those don't exist
2020-08-03T15:19:32 < mawk> ey'
2020-08-03T15:19:35 < mawk> they're a legend
2020-08-03T15:22:25 < zyp> I'm using laks
2020-08-03T15:24:39  * Mangy_Dog cries
2020-08-03T15:25:06 < Mangy_Dog> only had about 4 hours sleep last night and im trying to program the sending data class code for my display and my brain is just fudge :/ i could have finished th eproject today :/
2020-08-03T15:25:11 < Mangy_Dog> but im giving up
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2020-08-03T15:31:44 < rapha> wow, laks is so minimal it doesn't even have a real website
2020-08-03T15:32:07 < rapha> Mangy_Dog: go and take a nice walk or something
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2020-08-03T15:36:58 < rapha> The more I look at CubeMX the more I'm developing a regurgitation reflex.
2020-08-03T15:38:15 < mawk> why ?
2020-08-03T15:38:48 < rapha> because it's bloated and overly complex and for all that not well documented at all
2020-08-03T15:39:26 < mawk> documentation is fine in my opinion
2020-08-03T15:39:29 < mawk> it's in the .c files
2020-08-03T15:39:36 < mawk> you can run doxygen on it to generate html docs if you want
2020-08-03T15:40:15 < rapha> So far liking stm32plus best.
2020-08-03T15:41:31 < rapha> Oh wait, zyp, you're _the_author_ of laks?
2020-08-03T15:42:24 < mawk> probably
2020-08-03T15:42:48 < rapha> The code looks nice, just can't find any docs for it at all.
2020-08-03T15:43:55 < rapha> There's so many begun-and-abandoned projects in the STM32 community...
2020-08-03T15:43:57 < dongs> there's no docs
2020-08-03T15:44:00 < dongs> and yes zyp wrote it
2020-08-03T15:44:05 < rapha> zyp is the docs? :)
2020-08-03T15:44:07 < dongs> yes.
2020-08-03T15:44:10 < dongs> ask anything.
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2020-08-03T15:46:43 < rapha> okay, I got two: what does blink look like in laks? what does initialising TSC_G1_IO1 on PA0 (with the ref cap on PA1), and then polling for a touch event, look like?
2020-08-03T15:49:24 < zyp> while(1) { led.toggle(); Time::sleep(500); }
2020-08-03T15:49:59 < rapha> zyp: `led` being declared / defined like ... ?
2020-08-03T15:50:01 < zyp> dunno about touch, never done it yet
2020-08-03T15:50:11 < dongs>  what does initialising TSC_G1_IO1 on PA0 (with the ref cap on
2020-08-03T15:50:11 < dongs>                PA1), and then polling for a touch event, look like?
2020-08-03T15:50:16 < zyp> Pin& led = GPIOA[3]; or something
2020-08-03T15:50:18 < dongs> ^ by reading refman and then twiddling with the tsc registers
2020-08-03T15:50:24 < rapha> oh, that's sweet
2020-08-03T15:50:26 < dongs> by doing TSC->DONGS |= lol;
2020-08-03T15:50:28 < zyp> no, Pin led
2020-08-03T15:50:30 < zyp> not reference
2020-08-03T15:50:41 < rapha> lol@dongs
2020-08-03T15:50:58 < zyp> and yeah, what dongs said
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2020-08-03T15:53:51 < rapha> okay, so basically, you have to figure out how to do it step-by-step and then implement a library for it on top of laks
2020-08-03T15:54:40 < rapha> perhaps copying all the register definitions from http://libopencm3.org/docs/latest/stm32f0/html/tsc_8h.html might help a little
2020-08-03T15:55:09 < zyp> no, laks is that library, it's just that it doesn't do anything I haven't needed to yet, like touch sense
2020-08-03T15:55:28 < zyp> feel free to submit a patch adding a nice touch API to laks
2020-08-03T15:55:55 < rapha> afraid my C++ skills are on Arduino level
2020-08-03T15:56:23 < rapha> perhaps if i brush up on pointer arithmetic and learn how templates work i could start giving it a shot
2020-08-03T16:01:04 < rapha> just stumbled upon https://st-onlinetraining.s3.amazonaws.com/STM32L4_Peripheral_Touch_Sensing_Controller_(TSC)/index.html ... man does that guy shout into the mic
2020-08-03T16:01:32 < rapha> and he sounds like a boxing announcer rofl 
2020-08-03T16:05:31 < rapha> unfortunately i even lack the skill to properly red the refman ... perhaps i'll get lucky and just reading the analog value on those pins will be good enough
2020-08-03T16:05:37 < rapha> read*
2020-08-03T16:05:47 < Steffanx> poor rapha
2020-08-03T16:05:54 < rapha> :P
2020-08-03T16:14:07 < rapha> should have gone with the hipster SAMD shit and would have had loads of docs and examples and libs at my skill level
2020-08-03T16:19:53 < zyp> I added some SAMD shit to laks the other day
2020-08-03T16:20:27 < zyp> SAMD blinky with laks: https://bin.jvnv.net/file/R3mai.mp4
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2020-08-03T17:34:18 < dongs> is that another fucktarduino
2020-08-03T17:34:23 < dongs> in ADAFRUIT FEATHER format
2020-08-03T17:34:48 < dongs> that at least looks like it has USB-C
2020-08-03T17:37:04 < benishor> rapha: yeah, the retarded guy. I also ran into his voice on some SAI tutorials on youtube
2020-08-03T17:37:17 < benishor> sounds just like teleshopping motherfucker
2020-08-03T17:37:51 < mawk> Steffanx: https://www.ad.nl/den-haag/nieuwe-fietsparkeergarage-trekt-nu-al-de-aandacht-van-lonely-planet~afc3f234/
2020-08-03T17:38:00 < mawk> isn't that lovely
2020-08-03T17:38:15 < mawk> we did this thing
2020-08-03T17:48:03 < Steffanx> What did you do?
2020-08-03T17:48:07 < Steffanx> And does it actually work?
2020-08-03T17:48:10 < Steffanx> properly
2020-08-03T17:53:53 < effractur> ah dah that explains https://www.dumpert.nl/item/7954347_fe655d58
2020-08-03T18:24:11 < zyp> dongs, this shit: https://www.seeedstudio.com/Seeeduino-XIAO-Arduino-Microcontroller-SAMD21-Cortex-M0+-p-4426.html
2020-08-03T18:24:15 < zyp> not feather
2020-08-03T18:24:30 < zyp> idk why it has a shield
2020-08-03T18:26:31 < scrts> must be blue pill story - fake micro under the shield
2020-08-03T18:26:32 < scrts> :))
2020-08-03T18:27:28 < effractur> quite cute board
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2020-08-03T18:47:45 < karlp> shield is just for the labelling I think.
2020-08-03T18:47:49 < karlp> thought about that before
2020-08-03T18:52:05 < jadew`> decided to sell some of the domain names I own and checked the fees... "A mere 15% commission on the final sales price."
2020-08-03T18:53:33 < jadew`> godaddy is worse - 20% fee
2020-08-03T18:58:43 -!- hackkitten [~hackkitte@2a02:6d40:30d1:ed01:908f:d57e:41cb:b4bb] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds]
2020-08-03T18:59:19 < Steffanx> Is it really worth the effort anyway?
2020-08-03T18:59:35 < jadew`> don't know
2020-08-03T18:59:49 -!- hackkitten [~hackkitte@2a02:6d40:30e9:9901:8dd7:81cb:44ef:3dd9] has joined ##stm32
2020-08-03T18:59:49 < jadew`> but I don't think I'll do anything with them anymore
2020-08-03T19:00:31 < jadew`> I have a nice pack for someone who's not afraid of a lawsuit
2020-08-03T19:00:38 < jadew`> or more lawsuits...
2020-08-03T19:11:33 < Steffanx> mikerowsoft.com alike?
2020-08-03T19:12:28 < jadew`> no, you'd only get the lawsuits if you took them in the direction I had in mind for them
2020-08-03T19:15:23 -!- comptroller [~comptroll@47-213-220-127.paolcmtc01.res.dyn.suddenlink.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds]
2020-08-03T19:15:58 < jadew`> it answers an important question about celebrities
2020-08-03T19:16:11 < jadew`> whofucked.com/<celebrity_name>
2020-08-03T19:17:03 < Steffanx> lol
2020-08-03T19:17:15 < jadew`> :D
2020-08-03T19:17:41 < jadew`> I also have whofucks.com for a current status :P
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2020-08-03T21:20:35 < R2COM> zyp your linker script has stuff like ARM.extab, exidx, eh_frame_hdr, eh_frame etc... can all this shit be deleted? do i really need it? 
2020-08-03T21:23:27  * t4nk_freenode prays to the aliens to give R2COM the power to test hist theory on their own
2020-08-03T21:23:29 < t4nk_freenode> :b
2020-08-03T21:23:50 < t4nk_freenode> I just solved some issues on my own too!
2020-08-03T21:24:34 < t4nk_freenode> which is good, because now I won't have to ask, and my world-changing invention can remain supersecret
2020-08-03T21:24:51 < R2COM> i dont think you are capable of inventing anything
2020-08-03T21:24:59 < t4nk_freenode> !
2020-08-03T21:25:08 < t4nk_freenode> can't compete with such brilliance ;)
2020-08-03T21:25:15 < t4nk_freenode> you must be right
2020-08-03T21:26:05 < R2COM> speaking of invention, in a week or so will probably pick up my bonus for company filed patent
2020-08-03T21:26:27 < t4nk_freenode> yehyeh, okidoki, I'm moving on now
2020-08-03T21:26:38 < Steffanx> Dont tell him you're actually russian t4nk_freenode, because then you'll be screwed even more
2020-08-03T21:29:29 < t4nk_freenode> hehe, nonono Steffanx ... I like being underestimated ;)
2020-08-03T21:30:58 < Steffanx> like patents mean its really an invention.
2020-08-03T21:31:38 < t4nk_freenode> who here thinks gates mcfadden is dog-ugly?
2020-08-03T21:32:02 < t4nk_freenode> boy.. have they tried molding that face into something bearable
2020-08-03T21:33:27 < Steffanx> i've no clue who that is
2020-08-03T21:34:32 < t4nk_freenode> don't know dr. Crusher?!
2020-08-03T21:36:14 < Steffanx> Star Trek -_-
2020-08-03T21:42:04 -!- kakinull [2521067a@37-33-6-122.bb.dnainternet.fi] has joined ##stm32
2020-08-03T21:42:40 < R2COM> kaki the finnish man!
2020-08-03T21:42:54 < kakinull> hello
2020-08-03T21:43:03 < kakinull> I just arrived from sauna
2020-08-03T21:43:13 < kakinull> 5/5
2020-08-03T21:43:26 < R2COM> nice, you had beer there or no
2020-08-03T21:43:36 < kakinull> no
2020-08-03T21:43:44 < kakinull> my stomach doesnt like
2020-08-03T21:44:13 < kakinull> I had fresh blueberry juice
2020-08-03T21:44:17 < kakinull> made today
2020-08-03T21:44:46 < R2COM> perfect
2020-08-03T21:54:47 < zyp> R2COM, probably
2020-08-03T21:55:10 < zyp> IIRC it's related to exception handling, so it might not be emitted anyway
2020-08-03T21:55:27 < R2COM> got it
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2020-08-03T22:16:05 < Steffanx> Ohno are you sick kakinull?
2020-08-03T22:21:59 < kakinull> blueberry juice?
2020-08-03T22:22:08 < Steffanx> no, that you cannot deal with beer
2020-08-03T22:22:09 < kakinull> it's just good
2020-08-03T22:22:32 < kakinull> well it gives me some bubbling action in stomach
2020-08-03T22:22:44 < kakinull> so not every day drink
2020-08-03T22:23:00 < benishor> shooting in the dark: anyone savvy with fusion 360?
2020-08-03T22:23:14 < kakinull> not but planning to start using it
2020-08-03T22:24:24 < benishor> oh ok, I was looking for an advice regarding creating stencils
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2020-08-03T22:56:19 < kakinull> could I learn complex numbers tonight?
2020-08-03T22:57:23 < qyx> no
2020-08-03T22:58:06 < kakinull> why not
2020-08-03T22:58:21 < kakinull> I went to university once
2020-08-03T22:58:51 < benishor> of course you can learn
2020-08-03T22:59:03 < benishor> they're just like real numbers. except more complex
2020-08-03T22:59:31 < benishor> two dimensions instead of one. one real, one imaginary
2020-08-03T22:59:36 < benishor> or so they call them
2020-08-03T23:00:39 -!- dexterlb [~dexterlb@qtrp.org] has quit [Quit: Boing]
2020-08-03T23:00:46 < benishor> but in reality a complex number is just a point in a cartesian coordinate system
2020-08-03T23:01:17 < benishor> on one axis (say X) you have the "real" component and on the other axis (say Y) you have the "imaginary component"
2020-08-03T23:01:24 < benishor> what follows is a bit of vector math
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2020-08-03T23:01:36 < benishor> what's the magnitude of a complex number?
2020-08-03T23:02:27 < benishor> well then, you can either apply pythagoras' or take the vector approach and say that it's sqrt(x^2 + y^2)
2020-08-03T23:02:41 < benishor> a complex number also has a phase. what's that phase?
2020-08-03T23:03:33 < benishor> it's just how much the vector rotated around the origin compared to a perfectly horizontal vector
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2020-08-03T23:03:47 < benishor> damn, the wine seems to do the trick
2020-08-03T23:04:08 < Laurenceb> shit I'm screwed
2020-08-03T23:04:18 < benishor> whom did you kill?
2020-08-03T23:04:45 -!- TheSeven [~quassel@rockbox/developer/TheSeven] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds]
2020-08-03T23:04:52 < kakinull> did you wine fusion360 benishor?
2020-08-03T23:05:12 < kakinull> Laurenceb: russian mafia already wants their money back?
2020-08-03T23:05:45 < benishor> kakinull: no, I virtualboxed its ass off. in parallel with running it on a macbook pro
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2020-08-03T23:06:33 < benishor> hq.scene.ro/luv.jpg
2020-08-03T23:06:41 < benishor> http://hq.scene.ro/luv.jpg
2020-08-03T23:07:35 < Laurenceb> Ifwithin three years of its creation, any Intellectual Property in the Results or Foreground IP has not been commercially exploited by the Contractor, and the Contractor is not using its best endeavours to do so, the Contractor shall on written request by the Authority promptly assign the Intellectual Property Rights in the Results or Foreground IP
2020-08-03T23:07:35 < Laurenceb> to the Authority
2020-08-03T23:07:40 < kakinull> dope benishor
2020-08-03T23:07:42 < Laurenceb> I'm screwed
2020-08-03T23:08:31 < kakinull> Laurenceb: then the same text in plain english please
2020-08-03T23:08:35 < kakinull> in context to your situation
2020-08-03T23:09:02 < benishor> what did you invent which was stolen from you?
2020-08-03T23:09:18 < kakinull> what did you try to steal?
2020-08-03T23:09:26 < benishor> even better
2020-08-03T23:09:33 < benishor> well done, kakimir
2020-08-03T23:10:04 < benishor> I feel some bits of balkan blood pouring through your veins
2020-08-03T23:10:23 < kakinull> who knows
2020-08-03T23:10:24 < Laurenceb> kakimir: this is the ARPA-UK thing
2020-08-03T23:10:33 < Laurenceb> government owns my ideas if they want them
2020-08-03T23:10:40 < Laurenceb> if I get project funding
2020-08-03T23:10:47 < benishor> so what did you invent?
2020-08-03T23:10:49 -!- veegee [~veegee@ipagstaticip-3d3f7614-22f3-5b69-be13-7ab4b2c585d9.sdsl.bell.ca] has joined ##stm32
2020-08-03T23:10:54 < benishor> back to the original question
2020-08-03T23:10:58 < benishor> what was the great idea?
2020-08-03T23:11:03 < Laurenceb> the main promotional text says I own everything for perpetuity, but its not true
2020-08-03T23:11:09  * benishor prepares to write down stuff
2020-08-03T23:11:17 < Laurenceb> benishor: solar power on tethered balloons
2020-08-03T23:11:42 < Laurenceb> I'm trying for project funding from the government
2020-08-03T23:11:46 < kakinull> so they replace you
2020-08-03T23:11:51 < Laurenceb> yeah
2020-08-03T23:12:03 < benishor> how can you prove you were the first one thinking of it?
2020-08-03T23:12:04 < Laurenceb> I need Richard Spencer to protect me from being replaced
2020-08-03T23:12:08 < kakinull> and put their friends to run the thing
2020-08-03T23:12:36 < Laurenceb> benishor: lots of people have thught of this idea
2020-08-03T23:12:49 < Laurenceb> but nobody has done much proper study work
2020-08-03T23:12:55 < benishor> then just roll with it
2020-08-03T23:13:03 < benishor> whatever happens happens
2020-08-03T23:13:14 < benishor> it's not like you were meant to die filthy rich anyways, right?
2020-08-03T23:13:16 < Laurenceb> lol
2020-08-03T23:13:21 < kakinull> :)
2020-08-03T23:13:25 < benishor> be positive :D
2020-08-03T23:13:44 < kakinull> them taking your business is tommorows problem
2020-08-03T23:13:45 < Laurenceb> yeah I was worried something like this might be hiding in the small print, so  designed my application to avoid the core ideas
2020-08-03T23:13:59 < Laurenceb> didnt realise small print would be thins nasty
2020-08-03T23:14:04 < Laurenceb> *this
2020-08-03T23:14:11 < kakinull> same thing with private money
2020-08-03T23:14:21 < benishor> I was just about to ask
2020-08-03T23:14:25 < benishor> why not private industry
2020-08-03T23:14:38 < kakinull> you get rich but you lose your business nevertheless
2020-08-03T23:15:09 < Laurenceb> benishor: uk gov has a nice looking funding scheme
2020-08-03T23:15:16 < Laurenceb> or so I thought...
2020-08-03T23:15:24 < kakinull> unless you are just absolutelly relentless
2020-08-03T23:15:38 < benishor> you know, buddhist monks say that most of the problems you bring upon yourself by thinking of past things or worrying about things to come
2020-08-03T23:15:49 < benishor> hence `carpe diem`
2020-08-03T23:16:23 < benishor> live the moment. in the present there's no accepted application therefor no problems
2020-08-03T23:16:30 < aandrew> benishor> how can you prove you were the first one thinking of it?
2020-08-03T23:16:51 < kakinull> by making a paper
2020-08-03T23:17:02 < aandrew> usually you have some proof of public disclosure, or if that's not possible, potentially a sealed, envelope with the idea in it posted to yourself with an intact postmark
2020-08-03T23:17:06 < Laurenceb> I hate this "first one to think of it" concept
2020-08-03T23:17:12 < aandrew> don't know if that actually works though
2020-08-03T23:17:21 < benishor> yeah, it's a pretty shitty business
2020-08-03T23:17:22 < Laurenceb> its a long way forom actually doing it
2020-08-03T23:17:31 < kakinull> most ideas are anyways from last century scifi books
2020-08-03T23:17:37 < benishor> the whole patent thing is in itself a shitty business
2020-08-03T23:18:13 < Laurenceb> yeah
2020-08-03T23:18:28 < benishor> fuck
2020-08-03T23:18:33 < Laurenceb> my x gf does that shit
2020-08-03T23:18:33 < benishor> one more glass of wine and I'm off to sleep
2020-08-03T23:18:40 < Laurenceb> crap jerb
2020-08-03T23:18:47 < Laurenceb> but pays really well
2020-08-03T23:18:55 < kakinull> the russian girl?
2020-08-03T23:19:02 < benishor> patent related handling stuff?
2020-08-03T23:19:07 < Laurenceb> no lmao
2020-08-03T23:19:11 < Laurenceb> yeah benishor
2020-08-03T23:19:11 < kakinull> did you say GF?
2020-08-03T23:19:19 < kakinull> :o
2020-08-03T23:19:23 < benishor> kakinull: he surely missed the middle i
2020-08-03T23:19:31 < Laurenceb> in-incel for lief
2020-08-03T23:19:47 < Laurenceb> inb4 designated incel channel
2020-08-03T23:19:55 < kakinull> o/
2020-08-03T23:21:15 < benishor> I must admit the idea is pretty cool
2020-08-03T23:21:25 < benishor> but the skies would be quickly cluttered, neh?
2020-08-03T23:21:34 < benishor> it's easy to get out of hand
2020-08-03T23:21:57 < kakinull> so the company needs to re-invent air traffic control too
2020-08-03T23:22:12 < benishor> not to mention they also block the sunlight in the process
2020-08-03T23:22:22 < benishor> so crops might suffer, people might get depressed, etc
2020-08-03T23:23:06 < kakinull> just release studies that those are non-facts
2020-08-03T23:23:41 < Laurenceb> yeah there would be an air exclusion zone
2020-08-03T23:23:59 < Laurenceb> and the blimps would only block a few percent of the light
2020-08-03T23:26:10 < kakinull> if it's high enough it doesn't even make sharp shadow
2020-08-03T23:26:23 < kakinull> maybe
2020-08-03T23:26:58 < kakinull> have you concidered other countries Laurenceb?
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2020-08-03T23:27:18 < benishor> like some asian country for instance
2020-08-03T23:28:03 < kakinull> if they have money hand-outs with more fun small print?
2020-08-03T23:28:37 < Laurenceb> kakinull: most countries limit these sort of projects to citizens from their
2020-08-03T23:28:58 < kakinull> so it's not enought to have company registered there?
2020-08-03T23:29:32 < Laurenceb> I don't think so
2020-08-03T23:29:49 < Laurenceb> arggg
2020-08-03T23:29:59 < Laurenceb> they need an 800 word answer for each question
2020-08-03T23:30:07 < kakinull> welcome to entrepreneurship
2020-08-03T23:30:59 < kakinull> I think the main rule is that "never stop" just keep looking for solutions
2020-08-03T23:33:51 < Laurenceb> >This question will be scored against these assessment criteria: ‘How innovative is this project? How much does the project develop or employ novel concepts, approaches, methodologies, tools or technologies for this area?’
2020-08-03T23:34:00 < Laurenceb> open ended questions intensifies...
2020-08-03T23:38:42 < kakinull> well blimp solar panel
2020-08-03T23:39:09 < kakinull> that's crazy innovative to remind you
2020-08-03T23:39:14 < kakinull> bar is not that high
2020-08-03T23:39:22 < Laurenceb> I still prefer the nuclear bomb cat patent
2020-08-03T23:39:28 < kakinull> :o
2020-08-03T23:39:37 < kakinull> ?
2020-08-03T23:40:01 < Laurenceb> GB1426698
2020-08-03T23:41:08 < kakinull> :D
2020-08-03T23:41:17 < qyx> are those ACSxxx hall current sensors any good?
2020-08-03T23:41:34 < qyx> I have read some appnotes saying they may be ~2% off
2020-08-03T23:41:53 < kakinull> "Photon push-pull radiation detector for use in chromatically selective cat flap control and 1000 megaton earth-orbital peace-keeping bomb"
2020-08-03T23:52:52 < qyx> +-2.4% from 25°C to 105°C worst case
2020-08-03T23:52:57 < qyx> I cal live with that
2020-08-03T23:54:39 < Laurenceb> me is thinking of making a series connected AC microinverter string for his balloon system
2020-08-03T23:54:46 < Laurenceb> not sure if this is abad idea
2020-08-03T23:54:56 < kakinull> microinverter?
2020-08-03T23:55:07 < Laurenceb> yeah, for solar cells
2020-08-03T23:55:39 < Laurenceb> I was thinking: could they be designed to connect in series to get HVAC in a single step
2020-08-03T23:55:44 < kakinull> you don't want massive DC system in your flying solar cell
2020-08-03T23:56:06 < kakinull> oh
2020-08-03T23:56:13 < kakinull> you said series :o
2020-08-03T23:56:16 < kakinull> dope
2020-08-03T23:56:29 < Laurenceb> hmm actually I see the problem
2020-08-03T23:56:42 < Laurenceb> you need enough cap storage for ~1/100s 
2020-08-03T23:56:49 < Laurenceb> unless you output 3 phase
2020-08-03T23:57:04 < Laurenceb> but then you have huge voltages across each convertor
2020-08-03T23:57:08 < Laurenceb> nasty
2020-08-03T23:57:52 < kakinull> why you want series?
2020-08-03T23:57:59 < Laurenceb> I guess it could be done with electrolytic caps
2020-08-03T23:58:06 < Laurenceb> to get HVAC directly
2020-08-03T23:58:08 < kakinull> calculate weight
2020-08-03T23:58:20 < Laurenceb> yeah, the caps will be heavy
2020-08-03T23:59:19 < kakinull> 3phase in series sounds interesting
2020-08-03T23:59:38 < kakinull> idea breaks my brain
2020-08-03T23:59:47 < Laurenceb> lol it would blow up
--- Day changed Tue Aug 04 2020
2020-08-04T00:00:10 < Laurenceb> yeah caps might not be too bad, but weight would increase something between 5 and 10%
2020-08-04T00:00:18 < Laurenceb> also reliability would be a worry
2020-08-04T00:00:28 < kakinull> do you need dead weight for balancing?
2020-08-04T00:00:35 < kakinull> then it's a solution
2020-08-04T00:00:52 < Laurenceb> no dead weight is needed at all. "DC optimisers" are the other option
2020-08-04T00:01:15 < Laurenceb> so the panel generates HVDC, then high voltage inverter sits on the ground
2020-08-04T00:02:23 < Laurenceb> prob best overall, just less efficient.. maybe
2020-08-04T00:02:39 < Laurenceb> MAX20800 is a DC optimiser
2020-08-04T00:03:51 < Laurenceb> lol bitchute is getting real high energy right now
2020-08-04T00:04:30 < Laurenceb> >we are boarding a hovercraft that will take us to see David Icke, he will tell us the meaning to everything....
2020-08-04T00:04:42 < Laurenceb> this is extremely stupid but also extremely exciting
2020-08-04T00:05:09 < Laurenceb> like a live action James Bond movie
2020-08-04T00:05:17 < strata> what does high energy mean? cheeto-fingered-gay-frog-worshipping white dudes wearing hawaiian shirts LARPing as commandos in cardboard igloos?
2020-08-04T00:05:28 < Laurenceb> yeah pretty much
2020-08-04T00:09:44 -!- fluiD [~fluiD@unaffiliated/nn7] has quit [Quit: Leaving]
2020-08-04T00:31:06 < rapha> lol @ "reisgidsuitgever" ... <3-ing dutch words
2020-08-04T00:41:31 < rapha> zyp: how do you attach the ADC to a pin and read the current value from it in laks?
2020-08-04T00:47:33 < zyp> e.g. like this: https://cgit.jvnv.net/arcin/tree/arcin/main.cpp?id=8d37e2d#n283
2020-08-04T00:48:13 < zyp> in other words, I haven't used it enough to bother making a nice API for it
2020-08-04T00:50:26 < karlp> hrm, I can't work out whether this really just has an ac mains socket on the back or not, none of the other retailers (dutch even) can show a back side picture, and it's garbage if the power supply isn't included...
2020-08-04T00:50:28 < karlp> https://www.aliexpress.com/item/32961373669.html
2020-08-04T00:51:44 < zyp> uh, the title says internal power, so I'd expect a C13 on the back
2020-08-04T00:52:59 < zyp> the pic shit also says «built-in power»
2020-08-04T00:54:02 < rapha> no built-in state surveillance? how disappointing.
2020-08-04T00:54:07 < karlp> that's what I hoped, yes.
2020-08-04T00:55:13 < rapha> zyp: thanks ... what is an ADC "regulator"? (line 292)
2020-08-04T00:55:48 < zyp> karlp, but, uh, customer photos looks nothing like it
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2020-08-04T00:56:38 < zyp> rapha, that code is for stm32f3, it probably has a different adc from your stm32f0
2020-08-04T00:57:35 < karlp> zyp: yeah, noticed that too :|
2020-08-04T00:58:08 < karlp> can buy this locally, https://www.tl.is/product/8-port-greennet-gigabit-poe-switch-4-poe-4-non-poe65w but tempted to try a china one, don't need it today
2020-08-04T01:00:10 < zyp> I picked up a DGS-1005P when I needed a cheap poe switch
2020-08-04T01:00:43 < rapha> that's okay, zyp, i only wanted to see what it roughly looks like and then stumbled over the term "adc regulator" which i never heard before. lines 300-311 are clear in so far as that i understand CFGR, SQR1, SMPR1, CR and ISR to be registers and somehow the author (you, I'm assuming) was able to understand the datasheet well enough to know the meaning of all those numbers that are being used there.
2020-08-04T01:01:08 < rapha> karlp: do try and let us know :L)
2020-08-04T01:01:16 < zyp> rapha, regs are all documented in the reference manual
2020-08-04T01:01:42 < rapha> yes, i know that. just scared of it because of all the numbers.
2020-08-04T01:01:59 < zyp> not a lot of numbers really, just bits
2020-08-04T01:03:26 < karlp> zyp: yar, I only have one PoE device right now, but I've currently got 2 cascaded 5 port switches with one poe injector, was thinking moving to a poe 8 port would be a nice cleannup of cabling
2020-08-04T01:04:29 < zyp> https://bin.jvnv.net/file/GtfZh.jpg
2020-08-04T01:05:16 < zyp> three of the ports of the edgerouter is on an internal switch, and then there's the d-link for more poe and the mikrotik for other shit
2020-08-04T01:06:31 < zyp> this works for now but I'm planning to eventually replace it with a larger mikrotik with poe that can cover everything
2020-08-04T01:07:23 < zyp> I'm using almost all available ports at the moment
2020-08-04T01:08:21 < rapha> `adc.CFGR = (1 << 13) | (1 << 12) | (1 << 5)` ... does that mean something like: "write the number 12320 to the register called CFGR"?
2020-08-04T01:08:26 < karlp> yar, I don't have wiring to support putting it all in a wiring closet
2020-08-04T01:11:07 < zyp> rapha, sure, but that's a pretty useless way of looking at it
2020-08-04T01:11:43 < zyp> it's more useful to think of it as «write bits 13, 12 and 5 to 1 (and the rest to 0) in the CFGR register»
2020-08-04T01:12:01 < zyp> the comment at the end of the line names the bits
2020-08-04T01:12:57 < zyp> CONT is continous capture and I think ALIGN chooses whether it's left or right aligned (i.e. how to put the 12 bits of data in a 16-bit field), but I don't remember what OVRMOD does
2020-08-04T01:13:27 < Laurenceb> WO2006040514A1
2020-08-04T01:13:32 < Laurenceb> I like this
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2020-08-04T01:14:27 < rapha> okay, so if i convert 12320 to binary, then it looks like this: 0011 0000 0010 0000 ... counting from the right, the 6th, 13th and 14th are high. you said 5, 12 and 13, though. so the right-most bit is called "bit 0"?
2020-08-04T01:14:38 < zyp> yes
2020-08-04T01:14:41 < rapha> okay
2020-08-04T01:15:02 < Laurenceb> """star"""ship coming soon
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2020-08-04T01:15:13 < rapha> OVRMOD sounds as if it might be some kind of oversampling thing
2020-08-04T01:15:15 < Laurenceb> inb4 it blows up
2020-08-04T01:15:47 < zyp> both (1 << 0) and 2**0 is 1, i.e. the rightmost bit, so the rightmost bit is bit 0
2020-08-04T01:17:17 < rapha> there's a knot in my brain but i'll try to ignore that for now
2020-08-04T01:17:52 < zyp> you've probably got a steep learning curve ahead if you're planning to use laks :)
2020-08-04T01:18:21 < rapha> it just seems that wherever i turn with this microcontroller thing, there's binary arithmetic and registers around the corner
2020-08-04T01:18:32 < zyp> the only reasonably polished parts of it is the gpio and usb code
2020-08-04T01:18:45 < zyp> and maybe the rcc enables
2020-08-04T01:18:46 < rapha> and i'm getting annoyed at it and wishing that i'd been better at math in school
2020-08-04T01:19:31 < zyp> well, yeah
2020-08-04T01:19:55 < zyp> microcontroller code tends to be fairly low level, binary arithmetic is a staple of low level code
2020-08-04T01:20:25 < rapha> but yeah, the two things i need are either the TSC or the ADC and PWM. might be better off with libopencm3 or cubemx.
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2020-08-04T01:21:38 < zyp> I guess that depends a bit what your goal is too
2020-08-04T01:23:03 < zyp> if it's a fun project for learning, it might be more useful to learn how to work with the hardware registers than to learn how to beat cubemx into submission
2020-08-04T01:23:14 < rapha> i'm struggling between "make this project work" and "get better at microcontrollers". but then the point of the former partly is the latter and vice versa, so, both are fine in iterations, i guess.
2020-08-04T01:24:11 < rapha> cubemx is something i'd wholeheartedly like to stay away from with a 10-foot pole, alone for the fact that it's not open source.
2020-08-04T01:24:22 < zyp> hardware registers are well documented in the hardware manual, the layers you put above it might not be that well documented
2020-08-04T01:25:07 < zyp> laks ought to be better documented, but I haven't bothered yet since I'm mostly making it for my own use
2020-08-04T01:25:46 < rapha> that code you linked me too is quite a bit of brain food
2020-08-04T01:26:06 < rapha> why don't you #define CONT 13; #define OVRMOD 12; #define ALIGN 5; adc.CFGR = (1 << CONT) | (1 << OVRMOD) | (1 << ALIGN)?
2020-08-04T01:27:13 < zyp> too much tedious work
2020-08-04T01:27:37 < rapha> okay
2020-08-04T01:27:39 < zyp> also those names are not scoped enough to avoid collisions, and when you add scope it gets tedious
2020-08-04T01:28:05 < zyp> it wouldn't be CONT, it would be ADC_CFGR_CONT
2020-08-04T01:28:50 < zyp> it'd be more useful to define it as (1 << 13) so you could avoid doing the shift at all when setting the bits
2020-08-04T01:29:04 < zyp> but then that turns ugly when you have multi bit fields
2020-08-04T01:30:00 < zyp> and it's all a waste of time because you generally have to look up in the manual what bits are in what registers and what they do, so you might as well look up what bit number it is at the same time
2020-08-04T01:30:09 < rapha> hmm okay
2020-08-04T01:30:11 < zyp> and then just provide a comment to keep it readable
2020-08-04T01:30:43 < zyp> and yes, lots of people would disagree with me on this and do it your way, that is okay
2020-08-04T01:31:36 < rapha> i'm happy to know that there are two different philosophies and it's a matter of opinion / preference
2020-08-04T01:31:41 < zyp> if I were doing everything in the same way as everybody else, it wouldn't be any point making my own lib :)
2020-08-04T01:31:54 < rapha> true :)
2020-08-04T01:31:55  * Laurenceb is reminded of the xscale work project he encountered where every line with uncommented hex
2020-08-04T01:32:14 < rapha> i think libopencm3 is doing it the way i just suggested
2020-08-04T01:32:23 < zyp> Laurenceb, I'm reminded of certain code where every line had no spaces
2020-08-04T01:32:36 < Laurenceb> better than random hex with no comments
2020-08-04T01:33:25 < rapha> what i hate is when documents like the refman just seem to assume that everyone knows what "RCC" and whatnot stand for
2020-08-04T01:33:43 < rapha> well, there's google :/
2020-08-04T01:34:02 < zyp> no, it doesn't
2020-08-04T01:34:25 < zyp> there's a whole chapter in the refman that explains what the RCC is and what it does
2020-08-04T01:34:28 < rapha> ah, okay, now found it
2020-08-04T01:34:37 < rapha> but google was faster
2020-08-04T01:35:43 < karlp> rapha: cubemx actually is open source, but... still, don't recommend it :)
2020-08-04T01:36:29 < rapha> karlp: open source, as in, free software?
2020-08-04T01:36:38 < rapha> karlp: what do you use? zyp's laks?
2020-08-04T01:37:32 < rapha> zyp: perhaps, in https://cgit.jvnv.net/arcin/tree/arcin/main.cpp?id=8d37e2d#n292, by "regulator", you mean the internal voltage regulator used for the ADC?
2020-08-04T01:42:46 < rapha> zyp: it would make sense, though, to copy adc/adc_f3.h to adc/adc_f0.h, though, and change that to match the '042, no? (the "#if defined" part)
2020-08-04T01:43:22 < rapha> oh wait, no, the whole thing
2020-08-04T01:44:10 < Laurenceb> lol nasaspaceflight is down
2020-08-04T01:44:19 < Laurenceb> has anyone benchmarked the F3 adc?
2020-08-04T01:44:32 < Laurenceb> is it really as good as claimed, whats the ENOB?
2020-08-04T01:46:10 < Laurenceb> I managed to get about 10.8ENOB at max clock with F1 and F4 adc, but havent tried benchmarking F3
2020-08-04T01:50:26 < rapha> ahaa! chapter 13.12.1, "ADC interrupt and status register (ADC_ISR)" ... that's the place from which you knew that ADRDY is bit 0. and then there's 13.12.3, "ADC control register (ADC_CR)", which has ADEN, also bit 0. hence `adc.CR |= 1 << 0` ("set 1 to 0 in CR if it is not 0 already"?).
2020-08-04T01:51:52 < rapha> but i still don' get `while (!(adc.ISR & (1 << 0)))`. 1<<0 is always 1. why not just `while (!adc.ISR)`?
2020-08-04T01:52:32 < rapha> fuck, eyes falling shut by themselves
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2020-08-04T02:35:28 < karlp> rapha: I generally use locm3, though, I'd probably have used laks if I was starting from scratch
2020-08-04T02:36:12 < karlp> rapha: that while check is checkinf ro while that particular bit is still set.
2020-08-04T02:36:22 < karlp> nnote that it's a & (bitwise) not a && (logical)
2020-08-04T02:38:25 < Laurenceb> nevar gunna drill the oil, nevar gunna prepair to toil, nevar gunna plough the ric, nevar gunna pay the price, nevar gunna eat the bugs
2020-08-04T02:39:12  * karlp spanks lolrence with the "go and fucking test adc's and do something useful boyo" stick
2020-08-04T02:40:15  * karlp thankfully set the dns name to the aws elastic ip this time around
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2020-08-04T02:42:19  * karlp ponders whether an extra beer will improve IT management performance or not...
2020-08-04T02:45:25 < Laurenceb> wew nasaspaceflight down again
2020-08-04T02:48:47 < Laurenceb> hop in 7 mins or so
2020-08-04T02:49:31 < Laurenceb> ..maybe
2020-08-04T02:49:38 < Laurenceb> inb4 boom or cancelled
2020-08-04T02:52:09 < Thorn> 150m hop https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=59K40Ahd7yk
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2020-08-04T03:41:57 < karlp> well, I've spent another night trying to get jenkins to work.
2020-08-04T03:42:08 < karlp> whenever I've spent time on a single jenkins instance.... no problem
2020-08-04T03:42:17 < karlp> trying to make prublkic one, with private build slaves...
2020-08-04T03:42:20 < karlp> fucking hell
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2020-08-04T04:08:09 < upgrdman> lol https://www.chron.com/news/houston-texas/article/Pads-and-tampons-will-not-be-prohibited-for-test-15454434.php
2020-08-04T04:08:21 < upgrdman> "Without doubt, many people taking bar exams in the coming months—women, transgender men, and nonbinary persons—will be menstruating,"
2020-08-04T04:08:33 < upgrdman> HTF does a tranny man menstrate?! haha
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2020-08-04T05:06:19 < scrts> does st-link on stm32 devkits work on stm8?
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2020-08-04T05:33:18 < R2COM> im assuming stlink is stlink so it should
2020-08-04T05:33:24 < R2COM> if stlink supports stm8
2020-08-04T05:37:46 < scrts> well, I guess official devkit from ST should include fully feature ST-Link?
2020-08-04T05:37:53 < scrts> *fully featured
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2020-08-04T05:56:43 < R2COM> https://paste.ofcode.org/VnxP46mZw3Yn7pyDRWjkNE
2020-08-04T05:56:46 < R2COM> messing now with gdb
2020-08-04T05:57:03 < R2COM> why if i place breakpoint at line 23, and do "p y" it says cannot see y in context
2020-08-04T05:57:13 < R2COM> but if i place breakpoint at main and do p y , it prints 9 
2020-08-04T05:57:34 < R2COM> (not line 23, line 6)
2020-08-04T05:57:57 < R2COM> if i place break at line 6 and try to print y it says it cant see it
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2020-08-04T08:36:28 < jpa-> scrts: most stm32 devkits have SWD-only st-link, which does not support STM8
2020-08-04T08:36:46 < jpa-> the manual should say if it has SWIM or not
2020-08-04T08:38:07 < jpa-> R2COM: yeah, pretty common with gdb that it strangely can't find variables. One way is to take the address when you see it and then use that to print later
2020-08-04T08:39:08 < jpa-> the syntax    p main::y    could also work better
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2020-08-04T14:36:08 < tctw> I am here.
2020-08-04T14:47:17 < Steffanx> Are you there?
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2020-08-04T14:47:28 < tctw> yes
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2020-08-04T14:53:57 < Steffanx> Hi there
2020-08-04T14:54:13 < tctw> how is being alive going?
2020-08-04T14:59:22 < Steffanx> Im not sure.
2020-08-04T14:59:26 < Steffanx> There?
2020-08-04T15:00:30 < mawk> BrainDamage: when is x^y greater than y^x ?
2020-08-04T15:01:58 < mawk> both are > 1, to simplify things
2020-08-04T15:03:40 < benishor> kakinull: when x < y/2 ?
2020-08-04T15:03:47 < benishor> erm, mawk
2020-08-04T15:04:09 < mawk> no benishor 
2020-08-04T15:04:21 < benishor> dunno
2020-08-04T15:04:40 < mawk> the two dance around each other, they swap at precisely two places
2020-08-04T15:04:43 < mawk> first, when y > x
2020-08-04T15:04:51 < mawk> the second one is harder to find
2020-08-04T15:06:03 < mawk> plot 20^x-x^20 to see what I mean: https://www.wolframalpha.com/input/?i=plot+x*log%2820%29-20*log%28x%29%3B+x+%3D+0+to+25
2020-08-04T15:06:28 < mawk> you see at x = 20, the two are equal, it's obvious, but there is also a value near 2 where they swap as well
2020-08-04T15:13:21 < Mangy_Dog> ok need some help with pointers again.... https://controlc.com/7f2d4e6f  the full program at the moment... but its not that long. So in the main loop the setText passes buffer which is currently 80 bytes, in the class function setText i run arraySize, which is (what i found to be) how to assertain the size of an array... But im only getting the awnser 4. Should be 80 or at least 8(as 8 is the 
2020-08-04T15:13:22 < Mangy_Dog> amount of digits being printed in the buffer) What am i doing wrong with the pointers?
2020-08-04T15:13:52 < mawk> you're using sizeof right ?
2020-08-04T15:14:00 < mawk> doesn't work like this
2020-08-04T15:14:12 < Mangy_Dog> i was using it
2020-08-04T15:14:24 < mawk> sizeof only works when you use it in the same scope as your array is declared
2020-08-04T15:14:30 < mawk> and it works on arrays, not pointers
2020-08-04T15:14:33 < Mangy_Dog> i made a littel function to do sizeof(array)/sizeof(array[0]
2020-08-04T15:14:37 < mawk> if you use it on pointers, you get the size of the pointer itself
2020-08-04T15:14:43 < mawk> yeah that doesn't work, move that to a #define
2020-08-04T15:15:01 < mawk> then it will work again, if you ensure you only use it on arrays declared in the same scope instead of pointers
2020-08-04T15:15:10 < Mangy_Dog> how do you size of the array youre pointing to?
2020-08-04T15:15:16 < mawk> #define ARRAY_SIZE(a) (sizeof(a)/sizeof(*(a)))
2020-08-04T15:15:25 < mawk> if it's a pointer ? you cannot know
2020-08-04T15:15:32 < mawk> you need to pass this information alongside the pointer
2020-08-04T15:16:04 < mawk> sizeof() on array uses compile-time information
2020-08-04T15:16:09 < mawk> it's just sugar for you
2020-08-04T15:16:17 < Mangy_Dog> hmm
2020-08-04T15:16:21 < mawk> sizeof() cannot tell you things you don't already know by looking at your code
2020-08-04T15:16:28 < mawk> unless you do macro magic stuff but whatever
2020-08-04T15:16:48 < mawk> char a[42]; sizeof(a) == 42
2020-08-04T15:16:56 < Mangy_Dog> so instead of pointing... just pass teh whole array?
2020-08-04T15:16:59 < mawk> but char a[42]; char *b = a; sizeof(b) == sizeof(char *)
2020-08-04T15:17:11 < mawk> an array is a pointer, under the hood
2020-08-04T15:17:21 < mawk> it's just that when it's declared in the same scope, then sizeof() does magic on it
2020-08-04T15:17:27 < mawk> it's the only real difference as far as I know
2020-08-04T15:17:35 < mawk> char[] is really char* with some compile-time information attached to it
2020-08-04T15:17:48 < mawk> you need to pass the size alongside the function, no alternative
2020-08-04T15:18:21 < mawk> but here buffer is a class member, you already know the size Mangy_Dog 
2020-08-04T15:18:24 < mawk> why would you need sizeod
2020-08-04T15:18:26 < mawk> sizeof
2020-08-04T15:18:35 < mawk> just store the array size in a #define for instance
2020-08-04T15:18:57 < mawk> or do like class C { int size; char array[size]; }
2020-08-04T15:19:00 < mawk> I think that will work
2020-08-04T15:19:09 < mawk> if it doesn't, use a #define
2020-08-04T15:20:28 < mawk> Mangy_Dog: void f(char a[]); and void f(char *a); are exactly equal
2020-08-04T15:20:46 < mawk> even the promising void f(int sz; char a[sz]); does not work
2020-08-04T15:21:01 < mawk> the "a" there is really just a char *, sizeof won't do what you think on it
2020-08-04T15:21:14 < Mangy_Dog> hmmhmm
2020-08-04T15:21:18 < mawk> the only situation where it works is when you do char a[42]; as a variable, and in the same scope you do sizeof(a)
2020-08-04T15:21:32 < mawk> and in that situation, you already know which is the size of a, because it's compile-time
2020-08-04T15:21:39 < mawk> sizeof on array is just sugar when you do macro magic
2020-08-04T15:22:05 < mawk> same scope or child scope, I mean, like you did here
2020-08-04T15:23:06 < mawk> but you're using C++, why are you using C type stuff
2020-08-04T15:23:13 < mawk> make yourself a nice little class with size information
2020-08-04T15:23:24 < mawk> even just a std::array would do it
2020-08-04T15:23:29 < mawk> with compiel-time size
2020-08-04T15:23:41 < Mangy_Dog> hmm?
2020-08-04T15:23:59 < mawk> std::array is like a regular C array, but it has a size class member you can use
2020-08-04T15:24:01 < mawk> instead of sizeof
2020-08-04T15:24:12 < mawk> std::array<char, 62> a;
2020-08-04T15:24:24 < mawk> then you do decltype(a)::size or something like this, to get the size
2020-08-04T15:24:28 < mawk> you can do that in a simple template
2020-08-04T15:25:16 < mawk> to have a runtime sizeing you need a vector but that's more complex than a simple array
2020-08-04T15:25:21 < mawk> and you don't need it
2020-08-04T15:26:22 < Mangy_Dog> hmm
2020-08-04T15:26:29 < mawk> so first to fix your code move arraySize to a #define, and then consider using something like std::array if you really want
2020-08-04T15:26:37 < mawk> or just do #define SIZE 62 honestly
2020-08-04T15:26:47 < Mangy_Dog> though why move array size to a define?
2020-08-04T15:26:55 < mawk> because it cannot work in a function, as I said
2020-08-04T15:27:21 < mawk> in a #define it means when you do ARRAY_SIZE(a) the compiler will litteraly replace that by sizeof(a)/sizeof(*a)
2020-08-04T15:27:40 < mawk> so then the usage of sizeof will be in the same scope as you declared your array into (if you use it right), and sizeof will return what you want
2020-08-04T15:27:52 < Mangy_Dog> k
2020-08-04T15:28:21 < Mangy_Dog> and it wont work here because its scoped inside private of a class?
2020-08-04T15:28:30 < mawk> yeah it will work here
2020-08-04T15:28:41 < mawk> if you use the macro inside a method of that class
2020-08-04T15:28:59 < mawk> the array is declared in a scope above, meaning the array has not generated to a pointer
2020-08-04T15:29:10 < mawk> the array loses its size information when you pass it around as function argument; it's not the case here
2020-08-04T15:29:33 < mawk> it also loses the size information when you assign it to a pointer like char b[] = a; then b has no size information
2020-08-04T15:29:45 < mawk> more like char *b = a; but same idea
2020-08-04T15:29:58 < mawk> the array has not degenerated to a pointer*
2020-08-04T15:32:11 < mawk> let me show you some example code
2020-08-04T15:32:17 < Mangy_Dog> fek it, removing the size of length stuff out and just sticking a new line market in the buffer and the code looks for the new line in a while loop
2020-08-04T15:32:32 < Mangy_Dog> ill add a defined size too
2020-08-04T15:32:42 < mawk> #define SIZE 62
2020-08-04T15:32:43 < mawk> just do that
2020-08-04T15:32:56 < mawk> sizeof doesn't tell you something you don't already know, I mean just look a few lines above you see it's litteraly written 62
2020-08-04T15:36:51 < dongs> mangy_dong are you using this indent style for trolling purposes or what
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2020-08-04T15:37:02 < dongs> i want to stab my fucking eyeballs out
2020-08-04T15:37:22 < Mangy_Dog> na im not sure whats going on with it tbh
2020-08-04T15:37:27 < Mangy_Dog> ive looked into it 
2020-08-04T15:37:40 < Mangy_Dog> it looks fine on eclipse but when i paste it out it spreads it out super wide
2020-08-04T15:38:00 < dongs> arraySize() is fucking broken and doenst do what you expect
2020-08-04T15:38:10 < Steffanx> i think dongs is also referrring to extra tabs for blocks etc.
2020-08-04T15:38:12 < dongs> the #define the other guy said above is the proper way
2020-08-04T15:38:15 < dongs> yeah the
2020-08-04T15:38:19 < dongs> if (cocks)
2020-08-04T15:38:21 < dongs>     {
2020-08-04T15:38:24 < dongs>         lolwat()p;
2020-08-04T15:38:29 < dongs> this is fucking next level trolling
2020-08-04T15:38:40 < Mangy_Dog> oh i prefer if(something)
2020-08-04T15:38:42 < Mangy_Dog> {
2020-08-04T15:38:48 < dongs> >?>?????
2020-08-04T15:38:49 < Mangy_Dog> as aposed to if(something){
2020-08-04T15:38:54 < Steffanx> with extra tabs
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2020-08-04T15:40:16 < dongs> void checksum()// calculates checsum and injects it
2020-08-04T15:40:17 < dongs> also
2020-08-04T15:40:25 < dongs> its void checksum(void) you dingus
2020-08-04T15:40:25 < mawk> if you enabled warnings you would have known also, Mangy_Dog 
2020-08-04T15:40:30 < mawk> prog.cc: In function 'void f(char*)':
2020-08-04T15:40:30 < dongs> ^ also that
2020-08-04T15:40:32 < mawk> prog.cc:11:43: warning: 'sizeof' on array function parameter 'c' will return size of 'char*' [-Wsizeof-array-argument]
2020-08-04T15:40:34 < mawk>    11 |               << "sizeof(c) = " << sizeof(c) << std::endl;
2020-08-04T15:40:36 < mawk>       |                                          ~^~
2020-08-04T15:40:41 < mawk> in C++ you don't need void
2020-08-04T15:40:46 < mawk> it's optional
2020-08-04T15:40:52 < dongs> who cares
2020-08-04T15:40:54 < dongs> it looks like shit
2020-08-04T15:40:56 < dongs> without it
2020-08-04T15:40:58 < mawk> lol
2020-08-04T15:41:00 < dongs> also C++ is shit
2020-08-04T15:41:26 < mawk> Mangy_Dog: https://wandbox.org/permlink/YohxpOqV21LI7mnj here it is
2020-08-04T15:41:53 < Mangy_Dog> i realise dongs does know stuff... but i really feel the need to utterly disregard every single thing he says just because hes so rude about it...
2020-08-04T15:42:12 < mawk> he who loves well punishes well
2020-08-04T15:42:12 < Steffanx> lol
2020-08-04T15:42:14 < mawk> you know the saying right
2020-08-04T15:42:21 < Laurenceb> https://twitter.com/OakGwove/status/1289390734789865472
2020-08-04T15:42:57 < mawk> lol
2020-08-04T15:43:20 < dongs> waht is this shit lawrenceb
2020-08-04T15:43:29 < dongs> this is soem fucking /b/-tier unfunny shit
2020-08-04T15:43:57 < Steffanx> Is The Guardian your favourite news paper/website Laurenceb?
2020-08-04T15:44:47 < Mangy_Dog> guardian is one of the better news sources
2020-08-04T15:46:01 < Steffanx> When you consider it to be pure satire?
2020-08-04T15:46:18 < mawk> look at the paste Mangy_Dog 
2020-08-04T15:46:20 < mawk> get enlightened
2020-08-04T15:47:17 < Steffanx> Your main has no return mawk. Screw you
2020-08-04T15:47:23 < mawk> :(
2020-08-04T15:47:30 < mawk> default is return 0
2020-08-04T15:47:33 < mawk> don't worry
2020-08-04T15:47:39 < Steffanx> Cannot rely on defaults
2020-08-04T15:47:45 < mawk> C++ has got your back
2020-08-04T15:47:50 < mawk> it's embedded stuff anyway, who needs returns
2020-08-04T15:49:06 < Steffanx> and then someone moves your awesome code outside of the embedded world
2020-08-04T15:49:12 < Mangy_Dog> guardian is satire?
2020-08-04T15:49:49 -!- dima [~dima@kappa.ac93.org] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
2020-08-04T15:50:30 < Laurenceb> everything is satire
2020-08-04T15:50:36 < mawk> return 0 is in the standard don't worry
2020-08-04T15:51:48  * Steffanx gives mawk some more PHP work.
2020-08-04T15:52:58 < mawk> :(
2020-08-04T15:53:05 < mawk> no I'm doing pythonz now
2020-08-04T15:56:44 < mawk> hurry up Mangy_Dog 
2020-08-04T15:57:40 < Mangy_Dog> ?
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2020-08-04T15:58:57 < Mangy_Dog> hurry up what?
2020-08-04T15:59:18 < mawk> looking at the paste I made
2020-08-04T15:59:23 < mawk> https://wandbox.org/permlink/YohxpOqV21LI7mnj
2020-08-04T16:00:10 < Mangy_Dog> im not using size of any more
2020-08-04T16:00:21 < Mangy_Dog> im doing what you said
2020-08-04T16:00:36 < Mangy_Dog> as well as adding a newline in the send list
2020-08-04T16:00:48 < mawk> yes but so what
2020-08-04T16:00:54 < mawk> you need to understand how sizeof works
2020-08-04T16:00:56 < Mangy_Dog> so it just counts the chars till it finds new line
2020-08-04T16:01:21 < mawk> and also you need to realize that if you had warnings enabled you would have found the problem in a millisecond lol
2020-08-04T16:01:34 < Mangy_Dog> i have warnings enabled
2020-08-04T16:01:53 < Mangy_Dog> i just tend to ignore them as i dont fancy rading a 10 page essay every time i test some code
2020-08-04T16:02:58 < jpa-> what use is it testing some code if you ignore warnings? you'll just have it non-functioning for some silly issue that you could have resolved before even testing
2020-08-04T16:03:44 < Mangy_Dog> though tbh i have zero warnings at the moment
2020-08-04T16:03:56 < Steffanx> but before that.. did it complain about the sizeof ?
2020-08-04T16:04:09 < Mangy_Dog> tbh i didnt remember seeing any warning markers
2020-08-04T16:04:17 < Mangy_Dog> in the ide or console
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2020-08-04T16:33:44 < karlp> flatmush is looking for lolrence when he pops up next, if someone sees him again.
2020-08-04T16:34:19 < Steffanx> ok ok the blaxter.
2020-08-04T16:34:47 < Steffanx> is he going for a baby shaker?
2020-08-04T16:34:59 < Steffanx> or solar blimbs?
2020-08-04T16:35:51 < karlp> nah, pumping him for older info on pulse oximetry shtz
2020-08-04T16:38:15 < flatmush> am at the early stages of an open-source (hardware & software) ppg project using stm32: https://www.codethink.co.uk/articles/2020/bloodlight-a-medical-ppg-testbed/
2020-08-04T16:41:43 < Steffanx> Whats next? Capillary refill time stuff? Then you will make the blaxter totally happy
2020-08-04T16:48:07 < R2COM> c++ is a way to go in 2020
2020-08-04T16:48:21 < R2COM> c is for old fucks who cant learn
2020-08-04T16:56:13 < R2COM> jpa- , ok, yes, p main::y works better
2020-08-04T16:56:32 < R2COM> maybe its just better practice to do now, when printing stuff tell specifically from which place you print
2020-08-04T16:58:56 < Mangy_Dog> can you use bitwise to shift entries of an array up 1 slot? say you want to shift array[4]>>8, the data in 4 will go to the next array point and everything above it would also shift to the next array point?
2020-08-04T16:59:33 < Mangy_Dog> and i assume what ever is in the top of the array then goes out of bounds and is lost?
2020-08-04T16:59:46 < Mangy_Dog> or will it keep shifting and cause memory errors down the line ?
2020-08-04T17:00:15 < karlp> nothing moves in the array
2020-08-04T17:00:45 < Mangy_Dog> so you must explicitly set the entry per slot?
2020-08-04T17:07:01 < karlp> array[4]>>8 will just return you the value of the 5th element, shifted right by 8bits.
2020-08-04T17:07:52 < Mangy_Dog> k
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2020-08-04T17:58:09 < mawk> no Mangy_Dog 
2020-08-04T17:58:33 < mawk> if you have a large type, and you interpret bytes as array elements, you could do that I guess
2020-08-04T17:58:49 < mawk> like uint64_t a = 0x4242424242424242; uint8_t *b = &a;
2020-08-04T17:58:56 < mawk> then if you do a >>= 8; you'll have shifted elements in b
2020-08-04T17:59:00 < mawk> in which direction, that depends on endianness
2020-08-04T17:59:10 < mawk> but that's useless
2020-08-04T18:02:24 < mawk> could be useful for code golf, or for super fast computing
2020-08-04T18:03:27 < Mangy_Dog> nm sorted it
2020-08-04T18:03:42 < Mangy_Dog> i was just trying to figure out a decent way to slip in esc bytes
2020-08-04T18:03:53 < Mangy_Dog> when special bytes might have cropped up
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2020-08-04T18:05:58 < Mangy_Dog> at the very least i now have the time being displayed on my display
2020-08-04T18:06:48 < Mangy_Dog> also really good music to code to https://youtu.be/G-ZLjDXsdpQ?list=RDsQgOYNQ0Oz0 i love this artist.
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2020-08-04T18:47:33 < Steffanx> So what was the answer to your riddle Mr mawk?
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2020-08-04T19:12:42 < jadew`> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Mj2V0PxlFvU
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2020-08-04T19:13:55 < jadew`> T-16m, but it's stuck there
2020-08-04T19:14:20 < jadew`> oh, it isn't
2020-08-04T19:14:45 < jadew`> who wants to put money on this?
2020-08-04T19:15:56 < Mangy_Dog> Right im now getting a super strange nonsensicle problem with my checksum... So if i run the checksum on its own i get a value of 1&191 (dec) which is wrong, but if i do a serial print out of the same bitwise that makes that checksum, not only is my serial print out correct the checksem thats being injected is also correct... but as soon as i remove the serial print out, its wrong again!
2020-08-04T19:17:05 < Mangy_Dog> https://pastebin.com/jSR1nCz2
2020-08-04T19:17:22 < jadew`> I put $50 on blow up/crash if it actually has liftoff, who's in? I'll take 1:2 of that.
2020-08-04T19:17:22 < Mangy_Dog> its making NOOOOOOO sense whatsoever
2020-08-04T19:25:26 < Thorn> 10 minute siren https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wJUdY14kfhc
2020-08-04T19:26:49 < Mangy_Dog> :o
2020-08-04T19:26:52 < Mangy_Dog> whats happened?
2020-08-04T19:26:59 < jadew`> they're leaving to mars
2020-08-04T19:26:59 < Steffanx> not yet.
2020-08-04T19:27:09 < jadew`> musk is in there
2020-08-04T19:27:26 < Mangy_Dog> oh thought something went wrong and it was going to explode?
2020-08-04T19:27:30 < jadew`> they plan to come back when covid is over
2020-08-04T19:27:53 < Steffanx> why didnt you sign up jadew`?
2020-08-04T19:28:02 < jadew`> Steffanx, for the mars mission?
2020-08-04T19:28:17 < Steffanx> Yes, to come back when covid is done
2020-08-04T19:28:32 < jadew`> I'm afraid of heights
2020-08-04T19:28:56 < Steffanx> It's all relative right?
2020-08-04T19:29:14 < Mangy_Dog> oh that was a drone
2020-08-04T19:29:18 < Mangy_Dog> thought it was a dragonfly
2020-08-04T19:29:36 < jadew`> Steffanx, yeah, at some point it becomes far
2020-08-04T19:31:06 < jadew`> T-2m to blowup
2020-08-04T19:32:21 < Mangy_Dog> awww scrubbed
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2020-08-04T19:34:47 < jadew`> maybe next time
2020-08-04T19:44:01 < kakinull> I know where my money went
2020-08-04T19:44:12 < kakinull> to taxes
2020-08-04T19:46:00 < Steffanx> and useless domains :P
2020-08-04T19:47:17 < t4nk_freenode> drugs
2020-08-04T19:47:20 < kakinull> paying for useless domains is so 2008
2020-08-04T19:47:39 < kakinull> idk. about you.. was it 1998?
2020-08-04T19:51:45 < jadew`> kakinull, I sold one for 4k
2020-08-04T19:51:54 < kakinull> nice
2020-08-04T19:52:06 < jadew`> had something on it tho, but it was just a couple of lines of code
2020-08-04T19:52:21 < kakinull> was it some romanian name?
2020-08-04T19:52:24 < jadew`> no
2020-08-04T19:52:33 < jadew`> http://ipecho.net
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2020-08-04T19:53:13 < jadew`> IIRC it was getting ~5 billion hits per month, all bots lol
2020-08-04T19:53:26 < jadew`> when I moved it to a shared hosting, it crashed their server
2020-08-04T19:54:44 < jadew`> maybe I'm mistaken tho, 5 billion hits sounds like too much, but 5 million doesn't sound like enough
2020-08-04T19:55:52 < kakinull> back then 5million may have been alot
2020-08-04T19:56:30 < kakinull> there is under 3million seconds in one month
2020-08-04T19:56:43 < kakinull> it's 2 requests per second
2020-08-04T19:57:01 < kakinull> *visits
2020-08-04T19:58:00 < jadew`> ah, 54 to 57 million hits per day
2020-08-04T19:58:07 < jadew`> and 1.6 - 1.7 billion per month
2020-08-04T19:58:22 < jadew`> (I checked my data)
2020-08-04T19:59:14 < jadew`> I couldn't think of any way of monetizing that
2020-08-04T20:01:00 < jadew`> I don't have anything else on the domains that I'm hoarding now tho
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2020-08-04T20:01:09 < jadew`> just plans
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2020-08-04T22:27:15 < Laurenceb> ARPA-UK @ 90%
2020-08-04T22:27:24 < Laurenceb> can I pull it off by tomorrow lunchtime...
2020-08-04T22:27:36  * Laurenceb has to do a Gantt chart
2020-08-04T22:27:47 < Laurenceb> business bullshit intensifies
2020-08-04T22:29:03 < Steffanx> Laurenceb, you were needed!
2020-08-04T22:29:19 < Laurenceb> how so?
2020-08-04T22:29:36  * Laurenceb turned off irc for distraction free shitwriting
2020-08-04T22:29:47 < Steffanx> Someone needs information from you or something. -> flatmush
2020-08-04T22:29:59 < Laurenceb> sounds mysterious
2020-08-04T22:30:13 < Laurenceb> inb4 MI6
2020-08-04T22:30:36 < Steffanx> nah not so much
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2020-08-04T23:13:16 < Steffanx> but now mr flatmush is asleep i guess
2020-08-04T23:18:49 < kakinull> blockchain when?
2020-08-04T23:21:34 < karlp> Laurenceb: flatmush was doign this:  https://www.codethink.co.uk/articles/2020/bloodlight-a-medical-ppg-testbed/ and I thought  you might have some commentary?
2020-08-04T23:22:07 < karlp> Steffanx:.uk domain, presume they're still awake06?8M
2020-08-04T23:25:44 < karlp> wonderful. ns1.internet.is has an old dns entry, ns2.internet.is has the right one.
2020-08-04T23:29:17 < Laurenceb> HydrationBlood sugar levels
2020-08-04T23:29:22 < Laurenceb> erm...
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2020-08-04T23:29:28 < Laurenceb> thats not going to work
2020-08-04T23:30:29 < Laurenceb> hardware looks kind of cool, but not very well thought out
2020-08-04T23:31:00 < Laurenceb> >The four photodiodes have different curves for their sensitivities to different wavelengths of light
2020-08-04T23:31:05 < Laurenceb> *facepalm*
2020-08-04T23:31:19 < Laurenceb> just use a silicon photodiode and call it a day
2020-08-04T23:32:38 < strata> <Laurenceb> i facepalmed a silicon photodiode all day
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2020-08-04T23:39:22 < Steffanx> Very constructive Laurenceb:P
2020-08-04T23:43:08 < Laurenceb> >stm32f3: Add support for OPAMP
2020-08-04T23:43:10 < Laurenceb> heh
2020-08-04T23:43:23 < Laurenceb> those opamps are pretty shitty, I tried testng them
2020-08-04T23:45:31 < Laurenceb> >These offsets are due to muscle movements
2020-08-04T23:45:54 < Laurenceb> not necessarily, there are blood pressure osicllations which happen over a similar timescale
2020-08-04T23:47:47 < mawk> which riddle Steffanx ? the x^y-y^x thing ?
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2020-08-04T23:49:28 < Steffanx> Yeah
2020-08-04T23:49:32 < Steffanx> Mr mawk
2020-08-04T23:49:53 < mawk> so, x^y and y^x become equal when x = y
2020-08-04T23:50:20 < mawk> and also when y = c^c^c^c^c^c^c^..., with c = x^(1/x)
2020-08-04T23:50:24 < mawk> infinite power tower
2020-08-04T23:52:08 < Steffanx> Yeah makes sense. Lol -_-
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2020-08-04T23:55:52 < ColdKeyboard> Do you guys know what is the PN for this male/plug connector for SATA power -> https://i.imgur.com/9NiyvZp.png
2020-08-04T23:56:16 < ColdKeyboard> I'm trying to find a version that goes on the PCB or is a wire assembly but can't find anything on DigiKey
2020-08-04T23:56:30 < Laurenceb> did you just assume its gender?
2020-08-04T23:57:34 < kakinull>  Should I get 19" computer case?
2020-08-04T23:58:05 < ColdKeyboard> Lol Laurenceb
2020-08-04T23:59:20 < Steffanx> No kakinull 
--- Day changed Wed Aug 05 2020
2020-08-05T00:00:04 < kakinull> my rack cabinet could hold probably 3 node 804s stacked
2020-08-05T00:00:11 < kakinull> it's that big
2020-08-05T00:00:23 < kakinull> I build a platform for it and throw it in there
2020-08-05T00:00:29 < kakinull> just one node 804
2020-08-05T00:01:03 < kakinull> unless there is some platforms I can buy that easily hold 10kg or so
2020-08-05T00:01:26 < kakinull> not that basic sheet metal thing without any structure to it
2020-08-05T00:02:02 < kakinull> I'm moderatelly pumped steff
2020-08-05T00:03:10 < kakinull> my desktop computer doesnt work anymore I get parts for my ryzen build before weekend
2020-08-05T00:04:00 < kakinull> why did they remove memtest86+ from grub?
2020-08-05T00:04:44 < kakinull> I remember in the early days in 2008 etc. there was option to boot memtest86+ in grub
2020-08-05T00:05:55 < Steffanx> Just download it and run it
2020-08-05T00:06:08 < Steffanx> Easy peasy
2020-08-05T00:07:09 < kakinull> I'm not so certain about that
2020-08-05T00:07:17 < Steffanx> I am
2020-08-05T00:08:27 < kakinull> you forgot the part where you provide it in format you can boot computer from
2020-08-05T00:09:55 < kakinull> lets write da image
2020-08-05T00:10:08 < kakinull> 62KB
2020-08-05T00:12:56 < qyx> https://paste.jvnv.net/view/et137
2020-08-05T00:13:04 < qyx> am I missing anything,
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2020-08-05T00:30:36 < zyp> qyx, is it not working?
2020-08-05T00:31:32 < zyp> at a glance it looks correct
2020-08-05T00:31:59 < zyp> IIRC there's a bit to choose what counts as an update event, so maybe that is fucking up, but I don't think so
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2020-08-05T00:42:20 < qyx> it isnot
2020-08-05T00:45:13 < qyx> with tim2 it works
2020-08-05T00:47:01 < qyx> interesting
2020-08-05T00:47:30 < qyx> tim4 no worky too
2020-08-05T00:53:05 < zyp> does your chip have tim3/4?
2020-08-05T00:53:40 < qyx> I hope so, I have not seen one which doesn't
2020-08-05T00:53:41 < zyp> usually tim2, 3 and 4 are equivalent in features
2020-08-05T00:53:51 < zyp> which chip is this on?
2020-08-05T00:53:54 < qyx> L432
2020-08-05T00:54:02 < qyx> didn't check actually
2020-08-05T00:54:15 < qyx> it is for a toy, so not that important
2020-08-05T00:54:26 < qyx> the only reason I am curious is lower power consumption
2020-08-05T00:55:20 < zyp> so what is not working?
2020-08-05T00:55:36 < zyp> did you peek the counter register that it's actually counting?
2020-08-05T00:57:37 < Laurenceb> lol https://news.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=16902449&cid=60366203
2020-08-05T00:58:06 < zyp> qyx, according to RM0394 there's no TIM4
2020-08-05T00:58:19 < zyp> TIM2/3 exists and should be equal though
2020-08-05T00:58:21 < Laurenceb> >I like this stuff. I really get it. People are surprised that I understand it... Every one of these doctors said, 'How do you know so much about this?' Maybe I have a natural ability. Maybe I should have done that instead of running for president.
2020-08-05T00:59:43 < Steffanx> I picked some random datasheet of some random L432 as well and it does not talk about timer 3 at all
2020-08-05T01:00:06 < Steffanx> just 1/2 and then goes to 6/7 and some others
2020-08-05T01:00:47 < zyp> RM0394 says «TIM3 is available only on STM32L451xx, STM32L452xx and STM32L462xx.»
2020-08-05T01:01:11 < zyp> so TIM3 also doesn't exist on that particular part
2020-08-05T01:01:22 < zyp> but it does on some others covered by the same RM
2020-08-05T01:01:47 < zyp> that explains it :)
2020-08-05T01:02:13 < qyx> I didn't even consider checking if tim3 is available, uh
2020-08-05T01:02:18 < Steffanx> lolol
2020-08-05T01:02:55 < Laurenceb> https://files.catbox.moe/4orbzn.jpg
2020-08-05T01:02:55 < qyx> silly
2020-08-05T01:04:57 < Steffanx> Why didnt ST decide to make it just crash very hard when you try to talk to peripherals that do not exist?
2020-08-05T01:05:30 < zyp> not sure if APB supports faults
2020-08-05T01:05:40 < zyp> AHB does though
2020-08-05T01:06:45 < zyp> IIRC on LM4F the GPIO blocks can be accessed via both some AHB address space and some APB address space, and the former will fault if you make an invalid access while the latter won't
2020-08-05T01:07:03 < Laurenceb> I thought you got a hardfault for an address that doesnt exist?
2020-08-05T01:07:08 < Laurenceb> ok
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2020-08-05T01:08:16 < zyp> Laurenceb, I think it depends on what address space it falls in
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2020-08-05T01:09:46 < zyp> i.e. the AHB will return a fault if you try accessing an area that's not mapped on it
2020-08-05T01:10:48 < zyp> but if you try an invalid address in APBx space the AHB will happily forward it to the AHB-APB bridge
2020-08-05T01:11:25 < zyp> and probably same thing if you have an AHB peripheral
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2020-08-05T01:12:35 < zyp> AHB is happy as long as the address falls in the peripheral block and peripheral probably just ignores addrs it doesn't implement
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2020-08-05T01:14:06 < Steffanx> but the same about clock-vs-no clocked. i recall some lpc i used didnt like that at all.
2020-08-05T01:14:12 < Steffanx> or made it fault.
2020-08-05T01:14:16 < invzim> allreet, back from a new server - figured I'd splurge on a KVM vhost instead of a container based thingie
2020-08-05T01:14:36 < Steffanx> *clocked
2020-08-05T01:15:40 < zyp> Steffanx, same same
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2020-08-05T01:19:12 < mawk> Steffanx: if x^y = y^x, then y = (x^(1/x))^y right
2020-08-05T01:19:31 < mawk> then replace y by (x^(1/x))^y on the right, and so on
2020-08-05T01:19:46 < mawk> you get the infinite power tower (x^(1/x))^(x^(1/x))^(x^(1/x))^(x^(1/x))^...
2020-08-05T01:20:03 < mawk> that gives a way to calculate the value of y
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2020-08-05T01:52:12 < Laurenceb> https://files.catbox.moe/sqgusv.jpg
2020-08-05T01:53:37 < Steffanx> yes mr Laurenceb?
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2020-08-05T01:55:59 < qyx> whatever I do, my DAc output waveform contains large steps
2020-08-05T01:56:13 < qyx> trying to open the RM first :P
2020-08-05T01:56:33 < Steffanx> i'd ask ##stm32 qyx
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2020-08-05T01:58:30 < qyx> hm, it looks exactly like it should
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2020-08-05T02:01:43 < qyx> it sounds weird, maybe I should have added a RC lowpass after the DAC
2020-08-05T02:03:14 < qyx> (I am trying to play a sound using DAC & class-D amp when the thing is touched)
2020-08-05T02:14:23 < Steffanx> Sure its not your input thats weird?
2020-08-05T02:15:38 < Steffanx> Whatever "looks like it should" means
2020-08-05T02:16:10 < qyx> idk I downloaded a random ringtone from the interweb
2020-08-05T02:16:21 < qyx> I'll find something suitable tomorrow
2020-08-05T02:16:34 < t4nk_freenode> what dac are you using, qyx?
2020-08-05T02:16:36 < qyx> I should use opus or something similar too
2020-08-05T02:16:50 < qyx> to fit longer sounds inside
2020-08-05T02:16:55 < qyx> the internal one
2020-08-05T02:16:57 < Steffanx> Generate a simple sine?
2020-08-05T02:17:00 < t4nk_freenode> ah
2020-08-05T02:19:35 < t4nk_freenode> I bought a couple of AK4385-somethings.. got them on my desk right here.. was gonna solder one onto a breakout board
2020-08-05T02:19:38 < t4nk_freenode> see what it does ;0
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2020-08-05T02:56:25 < MangyDog> oh another attempt https://youtu.be/VwC6LG_z8zE+
2020-08-05T02:56:27 < MangyDog> oh another attempt https://youtu.be/VwC6LG_z8zE
2020-08-05T03:01:31 < Laurenceb> https://forum.nasaspaceflight.com/assets/51332.0/1960819.jpg
2020-08-05T03:02:35 < MangyDog> looks like a compressed can going pop
2020-08-05T03:05:13 < MangyDog> https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/392833351238811650/740352098369142905/IMG_20200805_003358.jpg Very nearly finished...  Likely tomorrow... will do a video on it very shortly... Likely the weekend.
2020-08-05T03:16:01 < aandrew> hm, looks like I may have just got an ARM assembly contract
2020-08-05T03:16:12 < aandrew> Allwinner H6, porting some game from Pentium days over
2020-08-05T03:18:03 < MangyDog> fun
2020-08-05T03:20:32 < aandrew> no, not sure it will be, I may be hacking on some android bullshit
2020-08-05T03:20:54 < aandrew> the actual challenge would be fun, but having to dick around with android and its BS... waiting on more info
2020-08-05T03:21:00 < Thorn> I thought you got a contract from ARM
2020-08-05T03:21:07 < Steffanx> *Arm
2020-08-05T03:21:12 < specing> you'll definetely be asked to work with android
2020-08-05T03:22:53 < R2COM> your job sucks
2020-08-05T03:23:22 < MangyDog> i still struggle with pointers, so i certainly am not qualifide to do it :p
2020-08-05T03:25:18 < aandrew> no, not FROM them
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2020-08-05T03:48:53 < aandrew> hah, it does not appear to be android
2020-08-05T03:49:05 < aandrew> it's a literal arcade game 
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2020-08-05T04:20:33 < Laurenceb> 100%
2020-08-05T04:20:38 < Laurenceb> holy fucking shit
2020-08-05T04:20:51 < Laurenceb> ARPA-UK status: submitted
2020-08-05T04:21:06 < Laurenceb> FIFTEEN THOUSAND WORDS
2020-08-05T04:24:40 < Laurenceb> lol thats <£1/word
2020-08-05T04:29:41 < englishman> did you just take the spacex mission statement and copypaste
2020-08-05T04:30:32 < Laurenceb> lolwut
2020-08-05T04:30:54 < Laurenceb> this is for stratosolar
2020-08-05T04:32:54 < englishman> maybe ran it through Mongolian google translate back and forth a few times so ukers can understand it
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2020-08-05T04:36:38 < Laurenceb> http://www.stratosolar.com/uploads/5/6/7/1/5671050/stratosolar-pv-a-complete-energy-solution.pdf
2020-08-05T04:36:46 < Laurenceb> pro presentation intensifies
2020-08-05T04:37:03 < Laurenceb> its like toned down timecube
2020-08-05T04:38:44 < Laurenceb> sheeet 721 applicants
2020-08-05T04:38:55 < Laurenceb> they are gunna be pruning them down a fair bit
2020-08-05T04:39:51 < Laurenceb> there is only enough money for about 450
2020-08-05T04:40:21 < Laurenceb> I wonder if the STORM HYDRINO ENERGY REACTOR gets funded
2020-08-05T04:41:25 < Laurenceb> Edmund Kelly was the guy behind Transmeta Crusoe
2020-08-05T04:42:29 < Laurenceb> or one of them anyway
2020-08-05T04:43:08 < Laurenceb> STORM HYDRINO ENERGY REACTOR !!!
2020-08-05T04:43:16 < Laurenceb> E=MC^2 bitches!!
2020-08-05T04:43:41 < Laurenceb> what ur gunna do when I convert muh mass into energy? huh?
2020-08-05T04:44:03 < Laurenceb> I'll be so fucking rich
2020-08-05T04:44:51 < Laurenceb> 1) E=MC^2 2) ??? 3) Profit!
2020-08-05T04:47:59 < Laurenceb> >Project Five Consulting is a boutique management consulting and research firm dedicated to improving organisations
2020-08-05T04:48:17 < Laurenceb> tfw this gets funded rather than my project
2020-08-05T04:50:59 < Laurenceb> hol up, some applicants are hidden, but the urls are in sequence
2020-08-05T04:51:08 < Laurenceb> damn, >770 applicants
2020-08-05T04:51:49 < Laurenceb> I'm screwed :(
2020-08-05T04:52:05 < Laurenceb> boutique manager and sotrm energy reacotr get the cash, guarenteed
2020-08-05T04:52:24 < Steffanx> If your story is a coherent as the shit you post here sometimes, then there isn't much hope for you Laurenceb 
2020-08-05T04:53:28 < Laurenceb> I might be able to make money putting the storm energy reactor page on a t-shirt for irony purposes
2020-08-05T04:53:52 < Laurenceb> along with Shaun Bishopstuff
2020-08-05T04:54:24 < Laurenceb> cybrmatrix 2000 and team pisces emissaryadventures
2020-08-05T04:54:50 < Laurenceb> Chris Chan should have applied for this
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2020-08-05T04:55:16 < Laurenceb> actually he is probably part of the storm reactor team, ould explain their webpage
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2020-08-05T04:58:57 < Laurenceb> reee google anti crackpost filtering
2020-08-05T05:00:39 < Laurenceb> its censored their site lmao
2020-08-05T05:00:47 < Laurenceb> wtf I love censorship now
2020-08-05T05:02:04 < Laurenceb> only findable with duckduck https://teamscotia.com/
2020-08-05T05:02:27 < Laurenceb> >teamscotia >teampisces
2020-08-05T05:02:30 < Laurenceb> hmm
2020-08-05T05:02:46 < Laurenceb> Shaun Bishop confirmed
2020-08-05T05:18:19 < Laurenceb> dont let his paunch and stained y-front confuse you, Shaun Bishop is at the forefront of innovation
2020-08-05T05:31:04 < Laurenceb> >a not-for-profit social business with a mission to tackle unemployment in the energy sector through creation of low carbon start-ups
2020-08-05T05:31:11 < Laurenceb> yo dawg
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2020-08-05T05:32:19 < Laurenceb> >a not-for-profit social business with a mission to tackle unemployment in the energy sector through creation of a not-for-profit social business with a mission to tackle unemployment in the energy sector through creationlow carbon start-ups
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2020-08-05T05:51:10 < jadew`> any chance anyone here did any experiments with chip capacitor bending resistance and has recommendations on a particular capacitor brand?
2020-08-05T05:51:15 < jadew`> brand/model
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2020-08-05T11:34:20 < benishor> what's the most commonly used swd connector for stm32?
2020-08-05T11:34:24 < benishor> on boards
2020-08-05T11:35:14  * flatmush will wait for Laurenceb to come back, but...
2020-08-05T11:35:14 < flatmush> [21:31:00] <Laurenceb> >The four photodiodes have different curves for their sensitivities to different wavelengths of light
2020-08-05T11:35:14 < flatmush> [21:31:05] <Laurenceb> *facepalm*
2020-08-05T11:35:14 < flatmush> [21:31:19] <Laurenceb> just use a silicon photodiode and call it a day
2020-08-05T11:35:14 < flatmush> We need at least two photodiodes because silicon diode sensitivity drops at 1100nm and we plan to test infra-red frequencies up to 1650nm for through finger measurements, plus all the unfiltered silicon photodiodes I could find were in larger packages and cost significantly more.
2020-08-05T11:35:16 < flatmush> If I could find two cheap photodiodes which covered the range, then it would probably make sense to use only 2, although I also thought it'd be possible to isolate stuff like ambient light.
2020-08-05T11:35:19 < flatmush> As for the STM32F3 opamps, I've not noticed any issues with them yet, they're only (optionally) applying gain to the output of trans-impedance amplifiers, but I guess further testing will show if there are any issues.
2020-08-05T12:00:05 < jpa-> benishor: most common is probably 0.1" pin header with random layout, but the most reasonable would be TC2030
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2020-08-05T12:18:57  * karlp snorts
2020-08-05T12:19:31 < karlp> jadew`: you can buy caps specially made for that, for flexing boards.
2020-08-05T12:19:49 < zyp> I prefer TC2030 myself, but the official standard is something like FTSH105
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2020-08-05T12:20:04 < zyp> i.e. 2x5 1.27mm pitch header
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2020-08-05T12:26:21 < Laurenceb> hell yeah
2020-08-05T12:26:29 < Laurenceb> letter of recommendation received
2020-08-05T12:26:47 < Laurenceb> muh application is surely destined for success now
2020-08-05T12:31:31 < benishor> congrats and good luck Laurenceb
2020-08-05T12:31:38 < benishor> don't forget about poor little old us
2020-08-05T12:31:43 < benishor> when you'll be filthy rich
2020-08-05T12:32:00 < benishor> jpa-, zyp: thanks! sounds like TC2030 is a winner
2020-08-05T12:32:00 < Laurenceb> lol some chance
2020-08-05T12:32:04 < Laurenceb> thanks anyway
2020-08-05T12:32:30 < Laurenceb> deadline in 28 mins
2020-08-05T12:33:05 < Laurenceb> 5. Give a short background to the main technical challenges you are looking to address 
2020-08-05T12:33:13 < Laurenceb> damn I hate these open ended questions
2020-08-05T12:33:53 < zyp> because you struggle to make a coherent argument?
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2020-08-05T12:59:54 < benishor> any source for a cheap 20 pin to 2x5 adapter?
2020-08-05T13:00:20 < benishor> I find it absurd to pay $37 for two connectors and a small pcb
2020-08-05T13:04:11 -!- ABLomas [abl@78-58-248-227.static.zebra.lt] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds]
2020-08-05T13:08:09 < karlp> stop using tools with 20pin connectors?
2020-08-05T13:14:09 < Steffanx> Olimex has something benishor 
2020-08-05T13:17:19 < Laurenceb> https://tech.slashdot.org/story/20/08/04/2131204/teslas-touchscreen-wiper-controls-ruled-illegal-in-germany
2020-08-05T13:17:30 < Laurenceb> >adds Slashdot reader Rei_is_a_dumbass
2020-08-05T13:18:38 < qyx> draw your own for $1
2020-08-05T13:20:08 < karlp> benishor: we even have this in zypsnips: https://github.com/karlp/zypsnips/blob/master/cortex-debug-headers-cables.md
2020-08-05T13:20:22 < karlp> https://www.digikey.com/products/en?keywords=1188-1016-ND is not $37
2020-08-05T13:21:34 < karlp> this one is probably a better version of course: https://oshpark.com/shared_projects/QoUhDy2L
2020-08-05T13:21:58 < benishor> 10x guys
2020-08-05T13:38:17 < Steffanx> But is your time worth more than  $5 qyx? https://nl.mouser.com/ProductDetail/Olimex-Ltd/ARM-JTAG-20-10?qs=DUTFWDROaMbVQp3WoAdijQ%3D%3D
2020-08-05T13:39:04 < Steffanx> Euro*
2020-08-05T13:39:11 < catphish> touchscreen wiper controls do seem like a terrible idea
2020-08-05T13:39:21 < Steffanx> And worth less. Lol. Im going back to sleep
2020-08-05T14:14:51 < benishor> Steffanx: yeah, I was looking right at that one
2020-08-05T14:15:00 < benishor> think im gonna get that
2020-08-05T14:15:18 < benishor> I don't have time to waste waiting for a board to come from a china fab house
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2020-08-05T14:34:39 < Steffanx> Farnell, tme etc sell it too
2020-08-05T14:40:52 < benishor> karlp: awesome zypsnips, thanks
2020-08-05T14:43:06 < karlp> it's in the topic for a reason... :)
2020-08-05T14:51:17 < invzim> the reason is so we can point to it after-the-fact and feel 1337 :)
2020-08-05T14:52:04 < invzim> may be of interest, I tried to dirtypcb's cable service and it was great!
2020-08-05T14:53:27 < invzim> just plain jst-xh stuff with some wires not crimped, and they came twisted and tinned
2020-08-05T14:53:32 < invzim> will def use again 
2020-08-05T14:55:16 < Steffanx> Yay
2020-08-05T15:01:32 < Steffanx> No fancy detail pics and 5 pages long review blog invzim ?
2020-08-05T15:02:54 < invzim> not yet :)
2020-08-05T15:03:55 < invzim> Seems they don't get a ton of attention, I use them for acrylics and now cables and super happy with the service
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2020-08-05T15:08:34 < invzim> anyone upgraded their microscope cams lately?  
2020-08-05T15:08:59 < invzim> Looking at this one as it seems to have a real-time-clock, and the GE port could be useful, https://www.aliexpress.com/item/4000243884703.html
2020-08-05T15:19:32 < karlp> why doyou need a rtc on a camera?
2020-08-05T15:19:36 < karlp> that's a lot of camera!
2020-08-05T15:20:19 < karlp> why are those usb-a ports?
2020-08-05T15:20:38 < invzim> for timestamping pictures, the one I have now has no rtc and timestamps everything in 2014
2020-08-05T15:21:16 < invzim> for mouse/wifi 
2020-08-05T15:21:40 < invzim> the gui is super-useful, and works with logitech unifi receivers, so zero hassle
2020-08-05T15:22:11 < karlp> the "mouse" one, sure, but hte usb-3 one is meant for transfer surely?
2020-08-05T15:22:59 < invzim> dual role, think you can hook up harddrives
2020-08-05T15:23:19 < karlp> so capture is only via hdmi/eth then?
2020-08-05T15:24:12 < invzim> or USB or SD
2020-08-05T15:24:17 < invzim> right now, I only use sd card
2020-08-05T15:24:23 < invzim> earlier version of this
2020-08-05T15:24:39 < Ultrasauce> the built in streaming would be nice
2020-08-05T15:25:01 < invzim> would be super-awesome if it can do everything via GE
2020-08-05T15:25:44 < Ultrasauce> wonder what soc is in there
2020-08-05T15:25:55 < karlp> invzim: but capture via usb with a usb-a port is... weird.
2020-08-05T15:26:00 < karlp> you need an a-a cable
2020-08-05T15:26:34 < invzim> don't be gender-phobic 
2020-08-05T15:26:50 < Steffanx> -_-
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2020-08-05T16:12:42 < PaulFertser> Hey EE pros. Here's a photo of a 12 V DC -> 230 V AC converter (to be used in an automobile). Do you think this might be a reasonably good device? https://jabber.ru/upload/b3c53491860479c3e8bd948485a3ce7cf2ff2dab/nKk5wFssXIcYAYXAhr9tpAt0WRewXU65RHyCe2Fb/pGzMtIHERNur7Y7AHp-pLQ.jpg
2020-08-05T16:12:49 < PaulFertser> https://jabber.ru/upload/b3c53491860479c3e8bd948485a3ce7cf2ff2dab/y7EGcx7ebkbALGcJsEVi4LWfGAScLtYsyOk75LiW/s4RQsj3kQiOeS3KvqHLxRg.jpg
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2020-08-05T16:38:03 < jpa-> PaulFertser: the lack of filtering after the transistors on AC output seems like it might spit out quite bad quality of AC
2020-08-05T16:38:33 < jpa-> which is ok for most devices, but induction motors might not like it
2020-08-05T16:39:21 < PaulFertser> jpa-: yes, this device is supposed to output quality sinus for all kinds of loads.
2020-08-05T16:39:28 < jpa-> also the isolation distances between the USB port and the high-voltage lines are pretty small
2020-08-05T16:40:10 < PaulFertser> USB is just for charging other devices afaict.
2020-08-05T16:40:52 < PaulFertser> I'm not sure I see where USB gets close to high voltage.
2020-08-05T16:42:12 < karlp> "pure sinus" claims mean," it's not a square wave!" aiui
2020-08-05T16:42:18 < karlp> generally, it all "just works" though.
2020-08-05T16:42:32 < karlp> just don't try and run close to the sticker load for too long
2020-08-05T16:43:35 < PaulFertser> Does this thing look like it wouldn't emit any noise via the 12 V input under all possible conditions?
2020-08-05T16:43:46 < jpa-> PaulFertser: the ground of the usb port that is directly touchable by user is very close to the high voltage output lines on the bottom side
2020-08-05T16:44:03 < PaulFertser> jpa-: oh
2020-08-05T16:45:05 < jpa-> i don't see any common mode filters on the input, so i'd say it is quite likely it emits at least some noise on the input wires
2020-08-05T16:45:13 < PaulFertser> It's like half a mm.
2020-08-05T16:45:28 < PaulFertser> jpa-: that's what I suspected...
2020-08-05T16:45:56 < jpa-> making such an inverter so that it doesn't emit any noise would be pretty difficult anyway
2020-08-05T16:47:09 < karlp> car doesn't care, noise everyehere
2020-08-05T16:47:32 < jpa-> i wonder whether those jumper wires on VCC are shunt resistors or if they are fuses
2020-08-05T16:49:32 < PaulFertser> Looks like fuses, shunt resistors would have measurement lines routed there.
2020-08-05T16:49:39 -!- jsoft [~jsoft@unaffiliated/jsoft] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds]
2020-08-05T16:50:36 < jpa-> true
2020-08-05T16:52:47 < jpa-> i wonder what the 4 transistors (two on each side) in the middle do; the two next to each transformer are choppers, then the transformers up the voltage and it gets rectified to the big caps in the middle, and then the 4 transistors at top form a H-bridge to output the "pure sinus" PWM square wave
2020-08-05T16:55:19 < jpa-> maybe those 4 are reverse polarity protection
2020-08-05T16:59:36 < PaulFertser> Thank you very much for your inputs gents.
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2020-08-05T17:22:51 < Laurenceb> I see flatmush encountered the software curse
2020-08-05T17:23:03 < Laurenceb> nice hardware but it needs some software to be ueful
2020-08-05T17:23:45 < Laurenceb> >Epic Innovation LtdWe will build and launch epic new products, propositions and ventures with visionary corporates
2020-08-05T17:23:59 < flatmush> Laurenceb: we're working on it!
2020-08-05T17:24:05 < Laurenceb> wtf I want to see grant money awarded now
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2020-08-05T17:41:29 < Steffanx> You sound like a little kid now Laurenceb "i want caaaaandyyyyy meeeh"
2020-08-05T17:52:49 < R2COM> zyp your code in laks for linker has glue_7/7t but that is for armv7, but that code you did is M3 its not armv7 if im correct
2020-08-05T17:53:07 < R2COM> so those lines also not needed in linker script i assume
2020-08-05T17:56:11 < karlp> you are incorrect.
2020-08-05T17:56:23 < karlp> m3 is very much armv7
2020-08-05T18:24:02 < Mangy_Dog> yay my digit counter thing is kinda finished... the controller code is usablly finished though missing a couple of small features i had planned but CBA to write right now... And the host code is mostly working though with one bug i cant figure out that sometimes throws in a frame start byte just before the frame end byte on occation...
2020-08-05T18:24:54 < Mangy_Dog> but good enough to make the video and release the files on
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2020-08-05T18:27:20 < Ultrasauce> jpa-: i think those jumpers are for thermal relief
2020-08-05T18:27:32 < Ultrasauce> for assembly
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2020-08-05T18:47:59 < R2COM> who cares about that shit equipment posted?
2020-08-05T18:48:28 < karlp> well, at least 4 people, given who replied :)
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2020-08-05T18:50:18 < PaulFertser> Ultrasauce: they have F1-F4 on silk under them.
2020-08-05T18:50:29 < Ultrasauce> huh ok
2020-08-05T18:51:09 < Ultrasauce> thought two in parallel was a no-no but i guess the positive temperature coefficient is there
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2020-08-05T19:01:50  * karlp considers buying a test finger
2020-08-05T19:02:09 < Ultrasauce> hot dog?
2020-08-05T19:06:02 < karlp> iec61010 pokeeee
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2020-08-05T19:44:50 < jpa-> karlp: can't you just get your own finger calibrated?
2020-08-05T19:45:21 < karlp> want a real one to poke in the faces of the UL people.
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2020-08-05T19:46:49 < qyx> selling in the US?
2020-08-05T19:55:10 < aandrew> wtf, is an SD card with an R1 respons of 0x0900 telling me "Locked" and "CC Error" ?
2020-08-05T19:55:18 < strata> s/in the/the
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2020-08-05T19:59:40 < karlp> qyx: yeah, already had some testing per the same standard anyway, iec61010, the finger is not related to any of the "UL deviations" thankfully, those are mostly " you need to use this sort of wording for things, because"
2020-08-05T20:00:17 < karlp> it's more, they claim something's "accessible in normal use" I claim it's not.
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2020-08-05T20:43:03 < zyp> heh
2020-08-05T20:55:50 < upgrdman> anyone use a 4k120/144 monitor? is it worth the price?
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2020-08-05T21:02:17 < t4nk_freenode> the price might be just a small factor..
2020-08-05T21:02:29 < t4nk_freenode> seeing the videocard will cost the most 
2020-08-05T21:02:44 < t4nk_freenode> (I guess)
2020-08-05T21:03:20 < Ultrasauce> 1.2 Gpx/s jeez
2020-08-05T21:07:21 < upgrdman> t4nk_freenode, if youre gaming, sure. but 120/144hz is nice even for normal use. even scrolling and mouse movement looks better.
2020-08-05T21:11:35 < t4nk_freenode> yeh, I bought a 32" 1440p/75Hz at some point, with an rx580... and I must say that gaming wasn't at all bad
2020-08-05T21:13:12 < t4nk_freenode> never observed mouse movement @144Hz.. at 75Hz it's still horrible in any case
2020-08-05T21:13:40 < upgrdman> i was poking some gaming laptops in a store. at 144hz, the mouse looks very smooth
2020-08-05T21:14:13 < upgrdman> not a huge deal, but it seems like... ya, why are ~all monitors still at 60Hz in 2020
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2020-08-05T21:16:52 < upgrdman> err, ...~all 4k monitors...
2020-08-05T21:17:10 < upgrdman> plenty of 144hz low res monitors :/
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2020-08-05T23:08:19 < PaulFertser> jpa-: (lack of filtering output for inductive loads) I'm reading that "universal motors" (commonly used in hand power tools) work fine on DC, so probably they should be reasonably happy with rectangular wave power source?
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--- Day changed Thu Aug 06 2020
2020-08-06T00:06:19 < Steffanx> Is it yours mr PaulFertser ?
2020-08-06T00:06:24 < Steffanx> Whats the plan with it?
2020-08-06T00:08:25 -!- c10ud^ [~c10ud@emesene/dictator/c10ud] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds]
2020-08-06T00:10:27 < qyx> PaulFertser: I fed some hand power tools with 220V DC, works reasonably
2020-08-06T00:10:41 < qyx> although switches must have been crying
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2020-08-06T00:15:31 < PaulFertser> Steffanx: no, friend's. He plans to use angle grinder, drill etc occassionally while away from the mains.
2020-08-06T00:15:47 < catphish> i'm finally getting an oscilloscope!!
2020-08-06T00:15:52 < catphish> *oscilloscope dance*
2020-08-06T00:15:55 < PaulFertser> qyx: where were you getting it from?
2020-08-06T00:16:03 < PaulFertser> catphish: what model?
2020-08-06T00:16:16 < catphish> PaulFertser: one guess?
2020-08-06T00:17:03 < qyx> PaulFertser: fullbridge dc-dc with 1:4 transformer and rectifier fed with 55Vdc
2020-08-06T00:17:04 < PaulFertser> catphish: that popular rigol ds1024 or whatever it's called
2020-08-06T00:17:25 < catphish> DS1054Z
2020-08-06T00:17:47 < catphish> but yes
2020-08-06T00:19:01 < catphish> kinda low end, but more than enough for my hobby requirements
2020-08-06T00:21:26 < PaulFertser> afaik it's quite nice
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2020-08-06T00:52:46 < karlp> qyx: what were you doinng that for?
2020-08-06T00:53:55 < qyx> I had no 230V inverter on the garden so I opened some boxes with old parts and arduino'd something up
2020-08-06T00:54:51 < qyx> 4L PCBs from jlcpcb arrived yesterday
2020-08-06T00:55:02  * karlp chers
2020-08-06T00:55:18 < karlp> I laid out all the parts for the hub this afternon, but didn't setup the stencil
2020-08-06T00:55:52 < karlp> found that while they do cascade together, all th eparts are ok, there's a _height_ difference betweenn the female downstream and male upstream, so they're never going to sit nicely together in a stack :|
2020-08-06T01:01:39 < qyx> https://i.imgur.com/UhMmSOg.jpg
2020-08-06T01:02:09 < qyx> and a BGA one https://i.imgur.com/lCJczKp.jpg
2020-08-06T01:02:53 < qyx> uh one via is placed over a ball
2020-08-06T01:04:39 < qyx> I am curious how will the BGA work with hotair on HASL
2020-08-06T01:07:56 < R2COM> is there some sort of utility program which can load .elf for my stm32 and show its memory arrangement done by linker, like heap, etc
2020-08-06T01:08:14 < R2COM> basically show layout memory map of finalized executable
2020-08-06T01:17:58 < Ultrasauce> readelf -S
2020-08-06T01:19:25 < R2COM> is readelf supplied together with gcc-gnuarm or separate stuff
2020-08-06T01:20:07 < Ultrasauce> that totally depends on your toolchain distribution but for me it's part of the binutils package
2020-08-06T01:20:09 < R2COM> oh its there
2020-08-06T01:20:16 < R2COM> i see it
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2020-08-06T01:49:25 < karlp> there's a few "extrta" bits in zypsnips for it too: https://github.com/karlp/zypsnips/blob/master/gxti-elf-size-decoding 
2020-08-06T01:51:32 -!- veegee_ is now known as veegee
2020-08-06T02:01:06 < karlp> in tonights fun times....  everythign works when I downgrade from jdk11 to jdk8...
2020-08-06T02:01:11 < Steffanx> gxti.. the good old days. is that guy even still alive?
2020-08-06T02:02:49 < karlp> no idea, I have no entry for them in my doxing folder....  :)
2020-08-06T02:03:54 < Steffanx> Hmm, i cannot rely on you for updates on my files then.
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2020-08-06T02:04:33 < Steffanx> freenode doesnt know him either, he must be gone. Like ReadError_
2020-08-06T02:09:35 < karlp> well, has commits from July, so.... probably still alive? https://github.com/mtharp/
2020-08-06T02:10:09 < karlp> seem to be writing lots of go these days
2020-08-06T02:16:05 < karlp> fucking, fix one problem, up pops another
2020-08-06T02:16:17 < karlp> go to writ a blog post with my jenkins slave setup, find that the blog has expired certs?!
2020-08-06T02:22:14 < karlp> hah, nginx wasn't restarted after the certs rolled
2020-08-06T02:22:17  * karlp grumbles
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2020-08-06T05:52:00 < jadew`> karlp, don't you use certbot?
2020-08-06T05:58:27 < jadew`> pfew... I just confirmed to myself that a product that I have already sold, is working correctly and the weird behaviour I'm noticing is not my fault
2020-08-06T05:59:13 < jadew`> I can sleep again
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2020-08-06T07:06:31 < scrotal_b> who has a good RSS to follow - IOT etc
2020-08-06T07:07:16 < scrotal_b> moderately frustrating to see the trend go towards javascript for literally everything
2020-08-06T07:08:41 < jadew`> what a stupid rule... ERROR (Missing newline before EOF, this crontab file will be ignored)
2020-08-06T07:09:16 < jadew`> like EOF is not end of line enough
2020-08-06T07:29:18 < englishman> hi scrotal_b
2020-08-06T07:29:40 < scrotal_b> hi englishman 
2020-08-06T07:29:59 < scrotal_b> im tired of these script kiddies that run this NODE.JS garbage
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2020-08-06T07:30:10 < scrotal_b> ALL I NEED IS A RASPBERRY PI AND I'M GOOD
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2020-08-06T08:42:50 < jpa-> PaulFertser: well, any big coil is a filter, so depending on the PWM frequency many motors could be ok with it - except if they have e.g. triac power control or starter capacitor based startup system
2020-08-06T08:45:31 < jpa-> if it doesn't work, one could always stick a filter between it and the devices - something like a inductor + capacitor + inductor filter, sized to lowpass around 50Hz
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2020-08-06T12:22:47 < karlp> jadew`: yeah, had to add a deploy_hook thingy to make it restart nginx after renewals went through though
2020-08-06T12:22:51 < karlp> _should_ be good now.
2020-08-06T12:23:09 < karlp> scrotal_b: who has a good rss reader?
2020-08-06T12:23:41 < karlp> is anything still published on rss anyway? it was all dying, with just a "new article, click here to see read it" junk on all the stuff  had.
2020-08-06T12:30:10 < zyp> karlp, feedly?
2020-08-06T12:30:44 < zyp> idk about good feeds, I mostly use it for webcomics
2020-08-06T12:31:15 < zyp> plus a couple of other things, like your blog
2020-08-06T12:36:18 < qyx> wheres karlp's blog
2020-08-06T12:38:37 < karlp> zyp: eh, might try it again.  all the comics I followed stopped having the comic in the feed, so I dropped most of it
2020-08-06T12:43:10 < zyp> most of the ones I follow still do, and even for the ones that don't, it's convenient to get the notification
2020-08-06T12:43:38 < karlp> tru enough, I just never picked upa  reader that I liked again after google killed theirs
2020-08-06T12:43:52 < karlp> tried a few back then, a few later, don't think I ever tried feedly though
2020-08-06T12:45:35 < zyp> I don't recall if feedly already existed or whether it launched in response to google killing reader
2020-08-06T12:46:06 < zyp> but they had some direct migration shit and a similar UI, so it seemed like the obvious alternative to me at the time
2020-08-06T12:57:47 < qyx> No worries! Feedly offers a free plan on the web and on mobile that allows you to follow up to 100 sources and organize them into 3 feeds
2020-08-06T12:57:53 < qyx> whats a feed?
2020-08-06T12:58:37 < qyx> uhm
2020-08-06T13:03:03 < karlp> ah, that's it, feedly was pay or didn't have enough on the free one for me
2020-08-06T13:03:20 < karlp> also, yay.  for all of gcc's attempts at getting fall through detection right, it missed this: "/* Fall through to autoenable tcp mode */"
2020-08-06T13:03:30 < karlp> it's got fall, and through, in a comment in the last line.
2020-08-06T13:03:35 < karlp> still gets warnings :(
2020-08-06T13:09:54 < qyx> ok I gave feedly 5 minutes, their UI didn't convince me I want to use it
2020-08-06T13:12:29 < karlp>     /* Falls through to autoenable tcp mode */
2020-08-06T13:12:41 < karlp> /* Falls through */ is ok, but having the reason for the fall through is not ok.
2020-08-06T13:12:48  * karlp screams at the void
2020-08-06T13:25:04 < Steffanx> Lol. Poor karlp
2020-08-06T13:26:24 < karlp> sok, CFLAGS+=-Wimplicit-fallthrough=2 (default is level3, which has the stupid harsh match patterns)
2020-08-06T13:26:58 < karlp> now it's just trying to work out why a program calls return from main, and ... doesn't exit
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2020-08-06T14:03:32 < zyp> I've never paid anything for feedly
2020-08-06T14:03:46 < zyp> but then again I only have like 30 feeds or something
2020-08-06T14:04:29 < zyp> I mean, they call it sources
2020-08-06T14:05:00 < zyp> qyx, apparently what they call a feed is like a folder
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2020-08-06T14:20:47 < qyx> is it able to eg. source all new publications from researchgate mentioning foo?
2020-08-06T14:20:54 < qyx> or it only has few sites it can parse
2020-08-06T14:21:09 < qyx> I was not able to persuade it to show me any relevant sources
2020-08-06T14:21:12 < qyx> except news.google.com
2020-08-06T14:29:19 < strata> echo '127.0.0.1 news.google.com' | sudo tee -a /etc/hosts
2020-08-06T14:29:42 < Steffanx> I love you too strata
2020-08-06T14:30:24 < Steffanx> How's your friend cracki btw, strata? Is he alright? Do you know?
2020-08-06T14:33:23 < strata> yes Cracki is doing just fine, though i fear he is falling deeper into a pattern of extremist behavior without a place to be where people will challenge it.
2020-08-06T14:34:21 < Steffanx> You know he has been unbanned for quite some time now uh. ;)
2020-08-06T14:34:39 < Steffanx> But maybe no one told him, maybe
2020-08-06T14:34:43 < Steffanx> Idk
2020-08-06T14:35:11 < strata> I recall telling him but he did not want to return. Cancel culture can have that effect.
2020-08-06T14:36:01 < Steffanx> Ah. His loss then
2020-08-06T14:36:25 < strata> the interwebs have thus created a Crackibubble of festering anger perhaps.
2020-08-06T14:36:37 < Steffanx> And lol at putting everything on "cancel culture"
2020-08-06T14:36:54 < Steffanx> Thats too easy as well
2020-08-06T14:38:14 < strata> cancel culture is just an expression of rising totalitarianism - which occurs at all levels of society more or less simultaneously throughout the cycles of civilizations.
2020-08-06T14:38:51 < strata> i've been trying to convince cracki of this - help him see that it's never a "top down" thing. it happens everywhere.
2020-08-06T15:08:01 < qyx> is there any pro who has a working and fail-proof libopencm3 i2c code?
2020-08-06T15:08:15 < qyx> that stm32 i2c is retarded in all ways
2020-08-06T15:09:38 < jpa-> libopencm3 i2c examples?
2020-08-06T15:10:03 < jpa-> though the official definition for "fail-proof" in i2c sense is "surely fails"
2020-08-06T15:10:46 < qyx> hm, libopencm3 i2c impl doesn't even have a timeout
2020-08-06T15:11:09 < karlp> best I can give you is this: https://github.com/karlp/libopencm3-tests/tree/master/tests/i2c-master
2020-08-06T15:11:21 < karlp> but there's probably still problems
2020-08-06T15:11:56 < karlp> there's a couple of pulls and issues for things that might need addrtessing, or not
2020-08-06T15:13:40 < qyx> yeah, I have a similar code and it fails sometimes on emi
2020-08-06T15:14:44 < qyx> the best I can do is to reset the peripheral, reconfigure GPIO, make some SCL pulses, configure the GPIO back to AF, setup the I2C again
2020-08-06T15:15:24 < qyx> also I needed to add timeouts to those while () ; cycles because it occasioanlly hangs there
2020-08-06T15:16:38 < karlp> eyah, that's a pretty obvious "this probably isn't ok"
2020-08-06T15:16:50 < karlp> but the right way of making a tiemout api in the library is... very unclear
2020-08-06T15:17:44 < qyx> I am leaning towards bitbanging it
2020-08-06T15:18:52 < qyx> I can tolerate reading bullshit but going into a hardfault or an endless loop is a no go
2020-08-06T15:19:41 < karlp> I've seen some stuff that fired it's own timer oneshots for doing this sort of app watchdog,
2020-08-06T15:19:58 < karlp> but still, needs that method to escape...
2020-08-06T15:20:07 < karlp> gross, head in sand.
2020-08-06T15:20:15 < qyx> reset is a way to escape
2020-08-06T15:20:17 < qyx> :>
2020-08-06T15:20:45 < karlp> tell me how to easily makea  nice stenciling setup instead.  I've got this jumbo bigger than a4 stencil from jlc, and need to paste a board easily....
2020-08-06T15:20:56 < qyx> I used IWDG in the past, it is a catch-all if anything unpredictably fails
2020-08-06T15:21:40 < karlp> what's wrong with that now? if it's happening on EMI events?
2020-08-06T15:23:05 < qyx> this is a PSU
2020-08-06T15:23:24 < qyx> I don't want to go through init again (disconnecting all loads)
2020-08-06T15:23:49 < qyx> and the damned I2C thing is a SMPS chraging controller
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2020-08-06T16:22:58 < karlp> finally found some blank pcbs I can use.
2020-08-06T16:23:04 < karlp> damn office cleaning
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2020-08-06T16:37:33 < mawk> someone canceled cracki Steffanx 
2020-08-06T16:37:36 < mawk> from this channel
2020-08-06T16:37:45 < mawk> it's exactly that
2020-08-06T16:38:03 < mawk> now when he becomes a lone wolf and bomb the ST offices it's your fault
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2020-08-06T16:41:00 < Steffanx> i dont feel responsible.
2020-08-06T16:43:25 < Steffanx> Im never responsible for his actions mawk, sorry.
2020-08-06T16:44:29 < Steffanx> Maybe you can tell him about some relaxinh drugs
2020-08-06T16:45:13 < mawk> he doesn't want it
2020-08-06T16:46:23 < Steffanx> Too bad
2020-08-06T17:03:19 < fluiD> canceled? 
2020-08-06T17:08:08 < Steffanx> He got banned for a bit. "Cancelled" they call that nowadayd
2020-08-06T17:08:11 < Steffanx> s
2020-08-06T17:09:46 < fluiD> Bummer. I found him to be quite helpful when I came in here.
2020-08-06T17:12:00 < mawk> I can tell you how to talk to him
2020-08-06T17:12:07 < mawk> but you have to pass an entry test to get on the secret channel
2020-08-06T17:12:36 < mawk> we will hook you to our STM32-powered Politicanalyzer™ and depending on the result you will be allowed to stay
2020-08-06T17:15:46 < fluiD> I scrolled back to see when he was banned. Oh well.
2020-08-06T17:18:35 < mawk> don't let feelings get in your way fluiD 
2020-08-06T17:18:44 < fluiD> ha :D
2020-08-06T17:18:45 < mawk> you can have intellectual appreciation for a person without adhering to his ideas
2020-08-06T17:18:59 < mawk> otherwise you'd kill yourself right now knowing that half the nitrogen atoms in your body are due to a nazi
2020-08-06T17:19:54 < fluiD> I did nazi that coming
2020-08-06T17:20:19 < Steffanx> Just join him in #opencv 
2020-08-06T17:20:21 < mawk> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Haber_process
2020-08-06T17:25:58 < fluiD> I'll pass.
2020-08-06T17:34:33 < mawk> you're not a coward fluiD right
2020-08-06T17:34:35 < mawk> join that channel
2020-08-06T17:35:44 < Steffanx> So how are you dealing with the amazing dutch temperatures mr mawk?
2020-08-06T17:36:13 < strata> with lots of toilet paper and regular showering, no doubt.
2020-08-06T17:36:33 < mawk> lol
2020-08-06T17:36:36 < mawk> no Steffanx 
2020-08-06T17:36:38 < mawk> I'm melting
2020-08-06T17:36:41 < mawk> I got scammed
2020-08-06T17:36:47 < mawk> I came to NL to flee french temperatures
2020-08-06T17:37:01 < mawk> also flee the judge but temperature was reason #1
2020-08-06T17:37:22 < Steffanx> No airconditioning in the office?
2020-08-06T17:37:28 < mawk> I work from home
2020-08-06T17:37:33 < mawk> only 4 persons max in the office
2020-08-06T17:37:43 < mawk> and my home AC is too loud
2020-08-06T17:39:23 < karlp> fucking usb2517 has two "pin 1 marks" as well, stm32 stylee.
2020-08-06T17:39:56 < jadew`> mawk, don't you know you shouldn't keep AC running when in the same office with other people during COVID?
2020-08-06T17:40:08 < jadew`> keep doors/windows open, AC closed
2020-08-06T17:40:39 < mawk> it's windows and doors open, AC open
2020-08-06T17:40:40 < mawk> good compromise
2020-08-06T17:41:31 < jadew`> none of you is an environmentalist, eh? :D
2020-08-06T17:42:13 < karlp> https://nc.beeroclock.net/s/zdco3R5dAKPjEY4
2020-08-06T17:42:13 < strata> "pin 1 marks" like the pad is also pin 1?
2020-08-06T17:42:51 < strata> that always confuses me because i thought it is never a good idea to have vias or traces between the outer pads and the thermal pad in the middle of a qfn or qfp
2020-08-06T17:42:52 < jadew`> karlp, it's the one in the corner
2020-08-06T17:43:25 < karlp> https://bin.jvnv.net/file/qTFwt.png
2020-08-06T17:43:28 < karlp> jadew`: thanks :)
2020-08-06T17:43:38 < karlp> datasheet just says, "somewher ein a quarter, will a mark, of some sort..."
2020-08-06T17:43:50 < strata> oh those
2020-08-06T17:43:55 < strata> the small one is the pin 1 p sure
2020-08-06T17:44:07 < strata> and the larger one is a runner push pin thingy from the mold
2020-08-06T17:44:08 < jadew`> karlp, take a look on the bottom, it might have a different shape
2020-08-06T17:44:23 < jadew`> yeah, if I were to guess, I'd guess the same
2020-08-06T17:45:21 < karlp> hah, I'd looked at the bottom, but not at all of them
2020-08-06T17:45:29 < karlp> yeah, it's the tiny one, which wsa the one I was going to have to go with
2020-08-06T17:45:42 < karlp> bottom actually _does_ hav ea tiny wrinkle in the epad, on the same corne ron all of them
2020-08-06T17:47:51 < karlp> fuck, can't get a pictore of it though
2020-08-06T17:56:57 < fluiD> When I encountered confusion with that, the STM datasheet indicated where the mark should be in reference to the text, so I could tell the two apart
2020-08-06T17:58:03 < fluiD> https://snipboard.io/I6UC3E.jpg
2020-08-06T17:58:11 < jadew`> also, it only takes 3 tries to figure it out yourself
2020-08-06T18:19:59 < karlp> fuck that, I've already got bridges on it. not having a lot of luck honestly with qfn and these stencils
2020-08-06T18:20:16 < karlp> not enough paste first time I guess. you're meant just do one big pass right?
2020-08-06T18:20:27 < jadew`> I have similar problems with QFN
2020-08-06T18:20:30 < karlp> fluiD: yeah, well, this datasheet doens't mention th etext
2020-08-06T18:20:34 < jadew`> I always have to rework it afterwards
2020-08-06T18:21:00 < jadew`> also, the stencils I have are making it a PITA for regular SMD components too
2020-08-06T18:21:13 < jadew`> because they have a little stub in the middle for some reason
2020-08-06T18:21:16 < jadew`> and they get clogged
2020-08-06T18:21:26 < jadew`> so other components don't get enough solder paste
2020-08-06T18:22:05 < jadew`> QFN ones always need touch up to break the bridges
2020-08-06T18:22:30 < jadew`> I think the key is good even pressure and single pass (possibly different solder paste too - smoother)
2020-08-06T18:23:03 < jadew`> I do two passes anyway, because in one I apply and the other one I wipe
2020-08-06T18:25:29 < karlp> yeah, I think I need wayyyy more paste first.
2020-08-06T18:25:42 < karlp> think I might have gotten too much on this thermal pad too
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2020-08-06T19:18:26 < karlp> was tehr a summary of this video at all: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iKDAmY9Rdag
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2020-08-06T19:38:02 < Steffanx> was there supposed to be?
2020-08-06T19:38:06 < Steffanx> *one
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2020-08-06T19:54:58 < karlp> just wanted to read a photo or list, not have to follow 15minutes to find out the summary again
2020-08-06T19:55:25 < Ultrasauce> go for the fake amtech nc-559
2020-08-06T19:55:43 < Ultrasauce> i use that stuff too and it's goo
2020-08-06T19:55:45 < Ultrasauce> d
2020-08-06T19:58:50 < karlp> so... hub doesn't work. it asked for a 12k 1% resistor exactly for bias...  and... I only had 12.1, which is... maybe in spec.
2020-08-06T19:58:57 < karlp> how likely is that to be it...
2020-08-06T19:58:59  * karlp ponders
2020-08-06T20:01:07 < Ultrasauce> throw a 1M in parallel
2020-08-06T20:02:40 < PaulFertser> If you have something slightly smaller than 12k you can try scratching a groove in it with a needle to make it exactly 12k :)
2020-08-06T20:02:45 < karlp> no, I suspect it's actually just the thermal pad has too much paste and some pads ont eh qfn aren't touching.
2020-08-06T20:04:33 < jadew`> karlp, there was
2020-08-06T20:04:36 < jadew`> not sure if I still have it
2020-08-06T20:04:47 < jadew`> did you eventually watch the whole thing?
2020-08-06T20:05:07 < jadew`> I ended up getting the amtech stuff
2020-08-06T20:05:17 < jadew`> 10cc, lasts a lot
2020-08-06T20:06:55 < jadew`> that and a fine tip on the soldering station takes care of all QFN soldering issues for me
2020-08-06T20:07:14 < jadew`> 1.2 mm for the tip to be more precise :)
2020-08-06T20:07:33 < jadew`> oh, and hot air, obviously
2020-08-06T20:08:04 < jadew`> what I usually do, is I apply the paste and then reflow the part again
2020-08-06T20:08:14 < jadew`> and if there are still bridges, I take them out with the iron
2020-08-06T20:08:30 < jadew`> that paste is great for that
2020-08-06T20:09:33 < karlp> https://www.banggood.com/2pcs-AMTECH-NC-559-ASM-PCB-BGA-Reballing-Solder-Flux-Paste-10CC-p-960102.html?cur_warehouse=CN&rmmds=search can't ship to iceland, but https://www.banggood.com/AMTECH-NC-559-ASM-10cc-No-Clean-Environmentally-Friendly-Solder-Paste-p-972795.html?rmmds=search&ID=6284393&cur_warehouse=CN can :)
2020-08-06T20:09:48 < jadew`> I bought it from TME I think
2020-08-06T20:09:58 < jadew`> I think that one is fake
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2020-08-06T20:10:56 < Ultrasauce> most certainly fake but works nicely
2020-08-06T20:11:48 < karlp> heh, look for lead free paste, picture says "63/37 tin/lead" 
2020-08-06T20:11:51 < jadew`> I should give it a try too
2020-08-06T20:12:14 < Ultrasauce> hm i can barely get anything from banggood anymore, their shipping agent for canada must have shit itself
2020-08-06T20:12:32 < jadew`> https://www.tme.eu/ro/details/anc559tf/fluxuri/amtech/nc-559-as/
2020-08-06T20:13:09 < jadew`> most shit from China seems to take ages to get here these days
2020-08-06T20:13:15 < jadew`> even via DHL
2020-08-06T20:13:40 < karlp> I just filed a dispute on a dhl shipment, tracking number wass't valid :| 
2020-08-06T20:13:45 < jadew`> probably those 4k covid deaths were all postal workers
2020-08-06T20:13:46 < karlp> thought it woudl be the _first_ to arrive
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2020-08-06T20:26:31 < karlp> https://bin.jvnv.net/file/aWaEL.png
2020-08-06T20:39:06 < catphish> lead-free lead, nice
2020-08-06T20:42:10 < Steffanx> Lolol
2020-08-06T20:44:36  * karlp wonders what to try next.  have I heated this part too much and try another? ...
2020-08-06T20:44:42 < karlp> lets' leave it for tomorrow I guess.
2020-08-06T20:45:56 < karlp> I've definitely got one error anyway, but hoped I'd verify other stuff first.
2020-08-06T21:20:43 < invzim> any of you done training with doulos and have any clue on discount/pricing levels?
2020-08-06T21:30:38 < Steffanx> i've never heard of doulos, so.. no
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2020-08-06T22:16:19 < Mangy_Dog> gah wtf is with that last paragraph soemthing went odd there
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2020-08-06T22:47:41 < LoneElf> Hey folks. Random question. STM32CubeH7 example code has a project called FreeRTOS_AMP_Dual_RTOS. I don't see that HAL_IncTick() ever gets called on the M4. Anybody know why this would be? Looks like the SysTick_Handler is implemented in port.c, and only handles incrementing FreeRTOS delay stuff.
2020-08-06T22:56:12 < zyp> but it gets called on the M7?
2020-08-06T23:01:27 < LoneElf> zyp, it does yes.
2020-08-06T23:01:57 < LoneElf> zyp, does only one core need to be calling HAL_IncTick()?
2020-08-06T23:02:27 < zyp> I'm not familiar with that example so I can't say
2020-08-06T23:03:17 < zyp> but I can imagine that might be the case if either the tick variable is shared or used only by code running on one core
2020-08-06T23:03:38 < zyp> how does it handle code for both cores? does it build two independent elfs?
2020-08-06T23:03:45 < zyp> if so, it's unlikely to be shared
2020-08-06T23:04:26 < LoneElf> Yup, two indepdendent elfs, it looks like uwTick gets incremented, and is a global defined in stm32h7xx_hal.c, so each core has a separate uwTick it seems.
2020-08-06T23:05:21 < zyp> in that case, it might not be used on the M4 core, or it might be omitted by accident
2020-08-06T23:06:29 < LoneElf> zyp, it does kinda seem like it may have been omitted by accident. Kind of a big glaring problem with STM32CubeH7 demo code if that's the case.
2020-08-06T23:07:05 < zyp> well, it's demo code, what do you expect? :)
2020-08-06T23:07:24 < LoneElf> :)
2020-08-06T23:21:55 < fluiDD> Can someone point me to a document that explains why I should pick one set of M,N,P,Q parameters for clocks over another?
2020-08-06T23:23:06 < zyp> fluiDD, you mean the PLL gains?
2020-08-06T23:23:28 < fluiDD> I guess...
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2020-08-06T23:23:40 < zyp> the RM will have specs on supported/recommended frequency for each stage
2020-08-06T23:24:18 < fluiD> Yeah, the the clock configurator will warn me if I violate those, but why would I pick /2 * 50 vs. /4 * 25 ?
2020-08-06T23:24:30 < zyp> on f4 my rule of thumb is 1 MHz after input divider, 2x sysclock after VCO
2020-08-06T23:24:59 < zyp> I think RM recommends 1-2 MHz after input divider
2020-08-06T23:25:09 < fluiD> Hmm.. ok. 
2020-08-06T23:25:21 < zyp> might be some differences in jitter, but overall it doesn't matter much
2020-08-06T23:25:40 < zyp> and 1 MHz allows you to use even number frequency crystals like 25 MHz
2020-08-06T23:25:54 < fluiD> There's a 48 mhz clock that's hard to satisfy 
2020-08-06T23:26:17 < zyp> no, it's easy, just make sysclk a multiple of 24
2020-08-06T23:26:33 < fluiD> :)
2020-08-06T23:26:40 < zyp> as long as sysclk is a multiple of 24 and vco is 2x sysclk, then vco is a multiple of 48
2020-08-06T23:27:17 < zyp> the 168 MHz max of f407 is 7*24
2020-08-06T23:27:19 < fluiD> so I have an 8mhz external, I /8 then * 192 then /4 to get my 48
2020-08-06T23:27:39 < zyp> which chip are you working on and what's max sysclk?
2020-08-06T23:27:49 < fluiD> F411, 100 mhz
2020-08-06T23:28:00 < zyp> ah
2020-08-06T23:28:06 < fluiD> the multiplier has to be 100 mhz or higher
2020-08-06T23:28:10 < zyp> 96 is probably good then, yes
2020-08-06T23:28:15 < fluiD> errr.. 100
2020-08-06T23:28:24 < zyp> 192 for vco, 96 for sysclk, 48 for usb
2020-08-06T23:28:57 < fluiD> is the "48 mhz clocks" for usb?
2020-08-06T23:29:44 < zyp> usb and a couple of other things, but IIRC USB is the only thing that needs it to be exactly 48
2020-08-06T23:29:57 < fluiD> <nod> ok thanks for the help!
2020-08-06T23:31:10 < zyp> I think it's also used for SDIO, IIRC there's a SDIO errata that limits performance to half and the workaround is doubling the speed of the 48MHz clock to compensate
2020-08-06T23:31:23 < zyp> (which is only possible if you're not using usb)
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2020-08-07T00:15:41 < karlp> for most rational braines, 1Mhz after the divider is easiest
2020-08-07T00:16:08 < karlp> I saw some claims somewhere that higher was better for jitter, but it might have been audiofoolery, 
2020-08-07T00:16:56 < karlp> hrm, at some stage in 2016 I believed it, from some other source: https://phys.org/news/2019-10-rediscover-fast-acting-german-insecticide-lost.html
2020-08-07T00:16:59 < karlp> no, not hat one
2020-08-07T00:17:04 < karlp> https://github.com/libopencm3/libopencm3/pull/696#discussion_r77497019
2020-08-07T00:17:07 < karlp> that one
2020-08-07T00:17:32 < karlp> this says it as well, but no source: https://docs.zephyrproject.org/1.13.0/reference/kconfig/CONFIG_CLOCK_STM32_PLL_M_DIVISOR.html
2020-08-07T00:17:58 < karlp> I seem to recall it being a footnote on some ST literature, but *shrugs* 1Mhz is fine :)
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2020-08-07T00:25:37 < qyx> fuking zephyr, they stole many ideas of mine
2020-08-07T00:25:50 < qyx> ie. kconfig, devicetree
2020-08-07T00:26:04 < qyx> I mean for an iot framework
2020-08-07T00:27:09  * karlp was not at all impressed with zephyr.
2020-08-07T00:27:13 < karlp> lots of goodish bits, lots of horror
2020-08-07T00:27:21 < karlp> kconfig is in both nuttx and chibi isn't it?
2020-08-07T00:27:48 < karlp> I think devicetree is... interesting. but, potentially a rather pointy object for them
2020-08-07T00:27:48 < qyx> idk, chibi was a disaster configuration-wise at the time I used it
2020-08-07T00:28:10 < karlp> because it's _not_ device tree, it's... like device tree, and used in similar but different ways.
2020-08-07T00:28:12 < qyx> also zephyr uses python's kconfiglib
2020-08-07T00:29:12 < qyx> saner than requiring a compiler to compile configurator for selecting a compiler for compiling the actual stuff
2020-08-07T00:35:02 < Steffanx> Chibios. Haven't looked at that for a looong time
2020-08-07T00:57:31 < qyx> karlp: I can confirm that adding 4 timeouts to i2c_transfer7 & counting fails & reconfiguring the whole I2C periph on repeated fail helps to make the bus happy
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2020-08-07T01:32:16 < R2COM> i noticed that if i do some function which fills heap up to stack pointer, and then for example when i re-program and re-flash with another function which does not fill heap until stack pointer, i still see PREVIOUS value of marked number
2020-08-07T01:32:20 < R2COM> until i power cycle device
2020-08-07T01:32:34 < R2COM> so... "flash" procedure in blackmagic probe does not reset all memory as well
2020-08-07T01:32:35 < R2COM> or what
2020-08-07T01:36:11 < R2COM> i mean load command
2020-08-07T01:54:25 < R2COM> so basically question about BMP: how to make it reset fully the target mcu before flashing
2020-08-07T01:54:43 < karlp> sram has never had guaranteed contents,
2020-08-07T01:54:47 < karlp> not even on x86 desktop
2020-08-07T01:54:48 < R2COM> cuz that doesnt happen until i manually power cycle mcu
2020-08-07T01:55:29 < karlp> you can _make_ your own startup routines zero out ram, but... that's beyond what's required/normal
2020-08-07T01:55:41 < karlp> not necessarily a bad idea.... just not normally done
2020-08-07T02:31:43 < R2COM> oh reight
2020-08-07T02:31:45 < R2COM> well
2020-08-07T02:31:53 < R2COM> the sram is not cleared on reset
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2020-08-07T03:30:29 < karlp> thats... whta I said, yes :)
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2020-08-07T06:30:54 < scrotal_b> karlp: i used to use Opera as my rss reader
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2020-08-07T07:56:10 < Thorn> T - 15 min https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KU6KogxG5BE
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2020-08-07T13:00:20 < qyx> interesting, the stm32 is sad when I set charging current to >= 1A and connect the source
2020-08-07T13:00:45 < Steffanx> Sad?
2020-08-07T13:01:19 < qyx> yes, it resets and then hardfaults in xPortStartScheduler
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2020-08-07T13:06:29 < qyx> with a different power supply (19V/3A instead of 12V/1A) I can charge at 1024mA, but nothing more
2020-08-07T13:06:41 < qyx> I am suspecting a serious emi issue
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2020-08-07T13:51:52 < dongs> manny_dong
2020-08-07T13:52:02 < karlp> any j1939 nerds can tell me what the difference between "Engine Fuel Rate (SPN 183) " and "Total Average Fuel Rate (SPN 1834)" is?  is the latter really jus the total lifetime average rate?
2020-08-07T13:52:09 < karlp> that doesn't seem very useful.
2020-08-07T13:52:18 < karlp> but how do I find out the period that the first one covers?
2020-08-07T13:54:16 < qyx> I asked an automotive friend
2020-08-07T13:54:23 < qyx> are you doing isobus?
2020-08-07T13:54:37 < dongs> karlp: did you already tried asking tekneeq
2020-08-07T13:55:16 < karlp> tekneeq?
2020-08-07T13:55:21 < dongs> teknique
2020-08-07T13:55:28 < dongs> i thought you were in some carshit with him
2020-08-07T13:55:56 < karlp> qyx: no, integrating some modbus fuel meter, apparently normally it's mounted inside tracators, but in this case in some factory
2020-08-07T13:56:04 < karlp> is that some icelanders internet username?
2020-08-07T13:56:14 < karlp> I guess baldur might know,
2020-08-07T13:56:17 < dongs> Ya thats him
2020-08-07T13:57:25 < qyx> have you seen https://invensense.tdk.com/social-distancing/
2020-08-07T13:57:34 < qyx> idk if I pasted it here already
2020-08-07T13:58:32 < dongs> nice
2020-08-07T13:58:40 < dongs> all the niggers are cashing in on this shit
2020-08-07T13:58:44 < dongs> i need to get in on the scam
2020-08-07T13:59:53 < karlp> yeah, found another definition, "Average fuel rate, equal to total fuel used divided by total engine hours, over the life of the engine"
2020-08-07T14:00:02 < Steffanx> Will you advice people to stop showering?  Become like RMS?
2020-08-07T14:00:03 < karlp> that doesnt really seem entirely useufl, I'll ask them if they really want that
2020-08-07T14:00:30 < sync> karlp: probably every second or whatever
2020-08-07T14:00:39 < sync> the other one is probably really lifetime or since reset
2020-08-07T14:05:20 < karlp> think I'll have more fun decoding the undocumented registers that have the model number, serial and firmware versions and shit. 
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2020-08-07T18:57:29 < qyx> ok, the problem is HSE
2020-08-07T18:57:50 < qyx> it is too close to the power input caps
2020-08-07T18:58:22 < karlp> that sounds fun
2020-08-07T18:58:27 < karlp> so what, runs on HSI just fine?
2020-08-07T18:58:37 < qyx> yeah, even at 2 amps
2020-08-07T18:58:59 < Steffanx> What is too close qyx?
2020-08-07T18:59:13 < qyx> HSE XTAL to the SMPS buck charger
2020-08-07T18:59:17 < karlp> that's rad.
2020-08-07T18:59:30 < karlp> oh well, remove HSE for great glory and cost/size reduction then
2020-08-07T18:59:43 < karlp> His Superior Interior
2020-08-07T18:59:57 < qyx> I would if I didn't need it for CAN
2020-08-07T19:00:39 < qyx> wasn't there some drive strength thing
2020-08-07T19:00:48 < qyx> or was it for LSE only
2020-08-07T19:01:32 < Steffanx> Lol I meant. How close is it? How close is too close in this case
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2020-08-07T19:07:49 < qyx> https://bin.jvnv.net/file/MFWPn.png
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2020-08-07T20:25:14 < strata> eww you installed microk8s via snap
2020-08-07T20:25:21 < strata> oh w8 it's only available as a snap
2020-08-07T20:25:23 < strata> disgusting
2020-08-07T20:27:51 < karlp> well, I don't even need k8s
2020-08-07T20:28:07 < karlp> and now I've figured out why iptables port redir from 80 to 8080 for jenkins doesn't work after reboot
2020-08-07T20:28:16 < karlp> something is saving with -i eth0, and eth0 doesn't exist.
2020-08-07T20:36:38 < englishman> qyx, if you used altidumb you could have made a pro drawing in draftsman instead of that opensores-mspaint-lunix-clone red circle
2020-08-07T20:37:34 < englishman> no xtal ground ring? it is sharing a ground plane with the smps?
2020-08-07T20:40:22 < karlp> oh, awesome, now the ip address of our buildings internet is in spamhaus and outlook won't let me send mail
2020-08-07T20:40:25 < karlp> ffs.
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2020-08-07T21:02:51 < upgrdman> :) https://www.reddit.com/r/Whatcouldgowrong/comments/i5c5zv/why_should_you_do_it/
2020-08-07T21:06:15 < Steffanx> lol how you managed to do that karlp
2020-08-07T21:06:57 < Steffanx> over active sales manager?
2020-08-07T21:08:58 < R2COM> zyp in your laks c++ mcu code, the stuff like for example gpio, it uses classes but not templates, and regset type functions are not static, so i suspect your implementation will be a bit slower and require more space
2020-08-07T21:29:08 < zyp> https://cgit.jvnv.net/laks/tree/gpio/gpio.h <- you mean this stuff?
2020-08-07T21:32:29 < zyp> depends how good your compiler is at optimizing, in theory every call should be able to be inlined and folded to a single write or RMW
2020-08-07T21:32:46 < jpa-> https://godbolt.org/z/qYWGGq   seems like it is one ldr instruction longer for the constant case and a few instructions longer for the reference
2020-08-07T21:33:08 < R2COM> yes
2020-08-07T21:34:50 < zyp> jpa-, GPIOA[3] is the intended fancy syntax
2020-08-07T21:35:52 < zyp> they compile to the same
2020-08-07T21:36:31 < zyp> even GPIOA[3].off(); results in the same
2020-08-07T21:38:29 < zyp> hmm
2020-08-07T21:38:53 < jpa-> sprinkling constexpr everywhere results in   error: 'reinterpret_cast<GPIO_reg_t*>(1073872896)' is not a constant expression
2020-08-07T21:39:01 < jpa-> in the GPIO_t constructor
2020-08-07T21:39:51 < zyp> I'm trying something else
2020-08-07T21:41:54 < R2COM> also im wondering about potential optimization for peripheral classes, for example i2c class, and say spi class, both will have some function like "write byte", now one would then create a template function "writebyte" and then appropriate writebite implementation whether its i2c or spi will be selected
2020-08-07T21:42:09 < R2COM> i think that should be determined at compile time
2020-08-07T21:42:15 < R2COM> must save space i guess and time too
2020-08-07T21:42:20 < R2COM> something like that
2020-08-07T21:42:28 < catphish> my office got some new warning signs today https://i.imgur.com/A0Gk40r.jpg
2020-08-07T21:42:31 < zyp> jpa-, I tried storing GPIO_reg_t& instead of GPIO_t& in Pin, but that doesn't seem to make any difference either
2020-08-07T21:42:57 < zyp> still get the extra ldr
2020-08-07T21:43:22 < Steffanx> Did you die of COVID-19 yet catphish?
2020-08-07T21:43:30 < catphish> Steffanx: not yet
2020-08-07T21:44:54 < Steffanx> if you want to template EVERYTING shouldnt you be using stm32plus then, R2COM? I recall it uses templates A LOT.
2020-08-07T21:45:17 < Steffanx> or that what leeloo was working on. She even took it a step futher, but no one knows where that is.
2020-08-07T21:46:18 < zyp> also, since we're talking optimizations, what are you optimizing for?
2020-08-07T21:47:02 < zyp> when you're talking about «save space», are you thinking flash (reducing code size) or ram? (reducing memory footprint)
2020-08-07T21:47:31 < zyp> also size vs speed is a tradeoff
2020-08-07T21:47:58 < R2COM> code size
2020-08-07T21:48:04 < zyp> some optimizations increases code size to avoid branches and thereby improving speed
2020-08-07T21:48:14 < R2COM> and speed too since static stuff compile time should win speed
2020-08-07T21:48:32 < zyp> eh, depends how you look at it
2020-08-07T21:48:48 < antto> 'o-o'
2020-08-07T21:49:00 < Steffanx> You use C# antto?
2020-08-07T21:49:25 < antto> the black key to the right of the C key?
2020-08-07T21:49:36 < antto> yeah, it's.. legit
2020-08-07T21:50:18 < zyp> the shortest way to set a gpio is to call a function that does it
2020-08-07T21:50:46 < zyp> something like gpio_set(3) is mov r0, 3; bl gpio_set
2020-08-07T21:50:51 < zyp> two instructions
2020-08-07T21:51:03 < antto> template metashizzle it! \o/
2020-08-07T21:51:05 < R2COM> like, all the classes you have for different periphs. wouldnt making them templated add scalability and reduce code size? or you say if compiler really good it should all figure things out
2020-08-07T21:51:39 < jpa-> when you are in trouble with C++, add more templates
2020-08-07T21:51:56 < antto> make the templatez templated \o/
2020-08-07T21:52:08 < R2COM> well no, in a reasonable way of course
2020-08-07T21:52:10 < zyp> templates doesn't generally reduce code size, it reduces amount of source code
2020-08-07T21:52:27 < antto> i confirm
2020-08-07T21:52:34 < veverak> in some cases they reduce code size
2020-08-07T21:52:48 < zyp> veverak, compared to what?
2020-08-07T21:53:07 < veverak> zyp: template polymorphism vs inheritance based polymorphism
2020-08-07T21:53:14 < zyp> agreed
2020-08-07T21:53:23 < veverak> the second needs the code to handle vtabels, the first one doesn't and compiler has more space to optimize
2020-08-07T21:54:16 < R2COM> storage stuff for member variables adds shit etc
2020-08-07T21:54:23 < zyp> vtables doesn't generally have to be handled though, it just adds an extra redirection on calls to polymorphic functions
2020-08-07T21:54:36 < veverak> and can block optimizations
2020-08-07T21:54:59 < R2COM> isnt template polymorphism = static polymorphism?
2020-08-07T21:55:04 < veverak> yes
2020-08-07T21:55:45 < antto> how come you're talking bout C++ ?! is senpai on vacation?
2020-08-07T21:56:09 < zyp> veverak, but you generally only win on size if there's only one template instance
2020-08-07T21:56:40 < zyp> inheritance based polymorphism is better at sharing between instances
2020-08-07T21:57:05 < veverak> that depends on specific code we are talking about
2020-08-07T21:57:17 < zyp> yes
2020-08-07T21:57:23 < antto> you win if you know how the different sh*t in C++ wurkz, and if you use the "right one" for the job.. since you can write "the same thing" in many different ways
2020-08-07T21:57:32 < zyp> also true
2020-08-07T21:57:45 < antto> which is why C sux
2020-08-07T21:57:55 < antto> there's not many ways to write a given sh*t in the first place
2020-08-07T21:58:04 < antto> no freedom
2020-08-07T21:58:07 < antto> COMUNISM
2020-08-07T21:58:09 < zyp> haha
2020-08-07T21:58:22 < veverak> wel, this alos is one of the points in: good C++ >> good C >> bad C >> bad C++
2020-08-07T21:58:27 < Steffanx> Did you convert to STM32 yet btw, antto? 
2020-08-07T21:58:45 < antto> i'd have to "convert" to arm cortex first
2020-08-07T21:58:49 < veverak> you can write stuff in C++ in so many ways ... so many ways to fuck it up more than in C :)
2020-08-07T21:58:49 < antto> no
2020-08-07T21:58:53 < jpa-> i've seen so many gpio implementations in C that antto must be wrong
2020-08-07T21:58:55 < Steffanx> Didnt you use something SAMD something?
2020-08-07T21:59:04 < antto> veverak learn how to not f*ck it up
2020-08-07T21:59:12 < veverak> antto: I know how to not to do it
2020-08-07T21:59:19 < jpa-> heck, i've even written so many different gpio things myself in C
2020-08-07T21:59:20 < veverak> I just accept that it's harder to know it actually
2020-08-07T21:59:22 < antto> jpa- really?
2020-08-07T21:59:22 < veverak> :)
2020-08-07T21:59:34 < antto> don't they suck?
2020-08-07T22:00:05 < Steffanx> Show us your amazing gpio stuff you wrote in the C++ antto?
2020-08-07T22:00:20 < antto> i just prefer having objects with dots to access them.. like, say i have a pin for a LED, i wanna write LED.on(); LED.toggle();
2020-08-07T22:00:27 < antto> not toggle_gpio(LED);
2020-08-07T22:00:30 < jpa-> https://www.google.com/search?q=stm32+gpio+h  start browsing :)
2020-08-07T22:00:31 < antto> f*ck that
2020-08-07T22:00:49 < veverak> friend of mine realized one cool thing in C++ you can do
2020-08-07T22:00:52 < veverak> RAII on GPIO
2020-08-07T22:00:55 < antto> Steffanx i don't have anything public besides maybe something visible in a screenshot
2020-08-07T22:01:00 < veverak> "this function needs the pin X toggled for the run"
2020-08-07T22:01:05 < Steffanx> ok, doesnt matter antto
2020-08-07T22:01:06 < veverak> -> RAII takes care of it perfectly
2020-08-07T22:01:09 < veverak> much better than 'C'
2020-08-07T22:01:14 < Steffanx> We love code in screenshots.
2020-08-07T22:01:15 < zyp> antto, that's exactly what my gpio stuff allows :)
2020-08-07T22:01:53 < antto> veverak i do RAII on GPIO and on the f*cking global interrupt flags
2020-08-07T22:02:09 < jadew`> is this C vs C++?
2020-08-07T22:02:11 < antto> RAII for SPI select
2020-08-07T22:02:20 < veverak> pin.set() vs set_pin() is not actuall differenc
2020-08-07T22:02:26 < veverak> RAII on pins is
2020-08-07T22:02:28 < antto> jadew` yes, GET YER F*CKIN POPCR0NZ
2020-08-07T22:02:31 < jadew`> because, technically speaking C == C++
2020-08-07T22:02:45 < antto> jadew` wrong
2020-08-07T22:02:58 < veverak> antto: yeah, it also makes sense on SPI select
2020-08-07T22:03:12 < zyp> eh
2020-08-07T22:03:18 < jadew`> antto didn't get the joke :)
2020-08-07T22:03:20 < zyp> that sounds…
2020-08-07T22:04:17 < zyp> for stuff like spi select, python's with statement seems more reasonable than plain C++ RAII
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2020-08-07T22:04:48 < jadew`> I 
2020-08-07T22:04:50 < antto> zyp it's not spectacular there
2020-08-07T22:04:53 < veverak> zyp: why?
2020-08-07T22:05:02 < jadew`> I made a funny joke, is nobody going to acknowledge it?
2020-08-07T22:05:04 < veverak> actually I like RAII more as it does not force intendation
2020-08-07T22:05:19 < veverak> otherwise it does exactly same thing
2020-08-07T22:05:31 < antto> i used RAII for stupid HTML tagz too
2020-08-07T22:05:48 < zyp> veverak, because it makes it explicit
2020-08-07T22:06:22 < zyp> and you don't need to have the select held for a full function scope
2020-08-07T22:06:24 < veverak> zyp: construction of object seems explicit enough
2020-08-07T22:06:55 < antto> https://i.imgur.com/UBNt2gi.png
2020-08-07T22:06:56 < zyp> construction for taking, sure, but the release is implicit
2020-08-07T22:07:01 < veverak> zyp: you can have RAII in "sub-scope" too
2020-08-07T22:07:05 < jadew`> zyp, you can use blocks
2020-08-07T22:07:22 < zyp> hmm, point
2020-08-07T22:07:23 < antto> bruh, it's called scope blockz
2020-08-07T22:07:32 < veverak> ah, scope blocks! :)
2020-08-07T22:07:34 < antto> look at muh "scoped_tag" there
2020-08-07T22:07:51 < jpa-> i always write RAII stuff within {} anyway to clarify where it starts and ends
2020-08-07T22:07:54 < jadew`> but I'll give you that, RAII is only better because it takes care of random exit points
2020-08-07T22:08:02 < jpa-> (unless it is for whole function from start to end)
2020-08-07T22:08:06 < jadew`> I would rather have statements for readability
2020-08-07T22:08:35 < antto> jpa- i use { } blocks very often even for dumb variables, to hint to the compiler that i don't need the sh*t anymoar, or to re-use the same local variables ..
2020-08-07T22:08:36 < jadew`> jpa-, same here
2020-08-07T22:08:54 < zyp> I don't really use RAII a lot for stuff where I care about the release timing, as long as it happens
2020-08-07T22:09:36 < zyp> and I don't use heap on embedded either, so I don't use RAII much at all on embedded
2020-08-07T22:10:45 < antto> https://gitlab.com/antto/pimpmykicadbom/-/blob/master/pimpmykicadbom.cpp#L1963
2020-08-07T22:12:27 < antto> behold, muh fuggly code
2020-08-07T22:13:02  * antto is ready to provide free eye-bleach
2020-08-07T22:13:31 < Steffanx> Sorrry, im still busy reading this +3600 lines of code.
2020-08-07T22:17:55 < qyx> englishman: yeah it is a half-assed pcb made in 2 days
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2020-08-07T23:22:17 < t4nk_freenode> that's ehhhhh quite a file you got there, antto :)
2020-08-07T23:22:37 < t4nk_freenode> do you also supply new eyeballs?
2020-08-07T23:22:40 -!- bvernoux1 [~Ben@88.120.152.126] has quit [Quit: Leaving]
2020-08-07T23:22:58 < antto> do marbles count?
2020-08-07T23:23:14 < t4nk_freenode> might even be better than the current ones!
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2020-08-07T23:31:17 < invzim> phew, finally - corporate firewall blocking of ssh and everything else circumvented :)
2020-08-07T23:31:36 < invzim> firwall PLUS proxy I might add
2020-08-07T23:31:54 < invzim> shellinabox + apache reverse proxy :)
2020-08-07T23:32:13 < qyx> anyone used the clock security subsystem?
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--- Day changed Sat Aug 08 2020
2020-08-08T00:15:42 < karlp> Steffanx: it's a big floor with ofice space for ~15 companies or so, all shared internet so.... *shrugs*
2020-08-08T00:19:07 < Steffanx> Ah. Awesome
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2020-08-08T00:32:10 < qyx> I'll simply redo the board on 4L
2020-08-08T00:32:32 < qyx> theres a couple of other bugs
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2020-08-08T01:25:39 < karlp> so. aliexpress full refund, product still available form same seller.  try again? :)
2020-08-08T01:27:40 < antto> while (true) { ... }
2020-08-08T01:28:55 < strata> they're probably all getting letters from CCP saying the party will cover any losses from intentionally screwing foreign customers
2020-08-08T01:29:29 < strata> physical confrontations should begin any day now
2020-08-08T01:37:34 < karlp> nah, I've plenty of other stuff.
2020-08-08T01:37:44 < karlp> now I just got my old favourite, "we can't process your order"
2020-08-08T01:38:41 < antto> "all our staff members are busy watching anime with tentacles"
2020-08-08T01:39:28 < antto> wut'cha buying, karlp?
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2020-08-08T03:48:35 < karlp> nothing interesting
2020-08-08T03:49:45 < t4nk_freenode> that's a blatant lie!
2020-08-08T03:49:54 < t4nk_freenode> an to was interested!
2020-08-08T03:52:01 < karlp> ok, some flux, some proto pcbs for mounting some pogos on, some r75-s3 pogo holders
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2020-08-08T04:07:16 < t4nk_freenode> ok, lol, now hold your horses
2020-08-08T04:07:26 < t4nk_freenode> you got Me interested as well now :b
2020-08-08T04:08:45 < t4nk_freenode> so I just actually read back
2020-08-08T04:11:01 < t4nk_freenode> as it happens,  Order time: 10:53 Feb. 27 2020 
2020-08-08T04:11:10 < t4nk_freenode> this was the first time I tried to get some flux
2020-08-08T04:11:37 < t4nk_freenode> this one arrived, 3 syringes of piss&vaseline
2020-08-08T04:12:07 < t4nk_freenode>  Order time: 07:23 Apr. 15 2020 
2020-08-08T04:12:36 < t4nk_freenode> here I ordered some rosin... package still hasn't arrived, and got a refund
2020-08-08T04:13:04 < t4nk_freenode>  Order time: 17:40 Apr. 23 2020  here I ordered some GENUINE AMTECH SYringe
2020-08-08T04:14:07 < t4nk_freenode> catpiss came again! .. and after some back and forth.. it was established that some perfectly fine flux was turned into catpiss because of having been stored too hot and long
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2020-08-08T04:17:53 < t4nk_freenode> they sent me  a replacement early june,...  04 Aug 2020 19:12 Arrive at sorting center ... so I'm still waiting for my flux :)
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2020-08-08T07:10:54 < jadew`> amazingly well put together scam: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f7ysULshPlI
2020-08-08T07:11:56 < jadew`> 24k viewers
2020-08-08T07:12:07 < jadew`> 34
2020-08-08T07:45:49 < jadew`> unfortunately is not very successful, no transactions in that wallet
2020-08-08T07:46:33 < jadew`> if it was successful it would have meant that they're running a ponzi scheme, which would have meant that it would have been exploitable
2020-08-08T08:04:42 -!- Cracki [~cracki@unaffiliated/cracki] has joined ##stm32
2020-08-08T08:04:47 < Cracki> wew it works
2020-08-08T08:04:52 < Cracki> start the clock!
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2020-08-08T10:28:57 < Steffanx> Its gone jadew?
2020-08-08T11:22:39 < jadew`> Steffanx, don't know, probably google picked up on it
2020-08-08T11:23:07 < Steffanx> What was it anyway?
2020-08-08T11:23:27 < jadew`> it was musk having an interview "live"
2020-08-08T11:23:58 < jadew`> and there was information on the screen saying that he's giving away 50 000 btc
2020-08-08T11:24:15 < jadew`> the logo was that of ABC News
2020-08-08T11:24:21 < jadew`> channel name News Live
2020-08-08T11:24:26 < jadew`> or Live News
2020-08-08T11:24:29 < jadew`> not sure
2020-08-08T11:24:52 < jadew`> and you had to send various amounts of BTC and you would receive 5 times back :)
2020-08-08T11:25:09 < jadew`> and it had 34k live viewers when I clicked on it
2020-08-08T11:25:26 < jadew`> and more than 700 likes
2020-08-08T11:26:02 < jadew`> I'm looking for tool holder ideas to 3d print - any suggestions?
2020-08-08T11:27:25 < jadew`> I want something for: tweezers, scissors, flux syringe, a marker, and maybe a screwdriver or two
2020-08-08T11:30:49 < jadew`> something like this I guess, but with things pointing down, instead of up: https://www.thingiverse.com/thing:4086182
2020-08-08T11:30:57 < jadew`> and preferably at an angle
2020-08-08T11:31:12 < jadew`> also, that red filament looks great
2020-08-08T11:37:13 < benishor> what type of breadboard/veroboard are people using for smd prototyping?
2020-08-08T11:37:46 < jadew`> for quick tests I just use the regular type
2020-08-08T11:38:15 < benishor> kinda hard to solder sot-23 on those
2020-08-08T11:38:22 < jadew`> other times I convert to through hole and use breadboards
2020-08-08T11:38:25 < benishor> are you using dead bug style?
2020-08-08T11:38:37 < jadew`> and for things that can't work like that, I make prototypes
2020-08-08T11:38:50 < jadew`> no, I just solder them to the pads
2020-08-08T11:39:15 < jadew`> SOT-23 fits fine on those
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2020-08-08T11:43:19 < jadew`> you can make your own also
2020-08-08T11:43:36 < benishor> yeah, but I'm pondering on what format would be more useful
2020-08-08T11:44:26 < jadew`> probably none, until you've made 20 or more and you start seeing patterns
2020-08-08T11:58:22 < zyp> what are you planning to prototype?
2020-08-08T12:03:17 < antto> karlp ur brewing flux?
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2020-08-08T13:33:34 < qyx> I made a great 48V night light LED driver
2020-08-08T13:33:43 < qyx> it contains a single 1K resistor
2020-08-08T13:35:05 < qyx> it drops ~52V to 33Vfb
2020-08-08T14:43:00 < PaulFertser> Lovely, 3 FETs blew when the invertor was turned on while connected to a _turned off_ electronically-controlled kettle: https://jabber.ru/upload/b3c53491860479c3e8bd948485a3ce7cf2ff2dab/VEn9qJNNBlqQDhRuoUWFeeSBEhToAd5EPCKATTQj/8PXuPhDYQx2Dzw2FZeDcgQ.jpg https://jabber.ru/upload/b3c53491860479c3e8bd948485a3ce7cf2ff2dab/v1BETvDGFTXlVPMUONFV8nGfUS7M9JC3RkhGAYqQ/rLpKr-PURJyywF4IEEbCtg.jpg
2020-08-08T14:46:44 < Steffanx> Whops
2020-08-08T14:47:09 < Steffanx> Nice blow :)
2020-08-08T14:50:19 < PaulFertser> I wonder if it would do the same if the output was shorted when the power switch was turned on.
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2020-08-08T15:05:33 < jpa-> looks like F1-F4 may have been a bit overrated :)
2020-08-08T15:24:25 < qyx> lol
2020-08-08T15:25:17 < qyx> also, wtf, using inverter in a car to power a kettle?
2020-08-08T15:26:06 < jpa-> if the kettle is controlled with a triac, it's probably exactly the kind of load that goes happitydappy when given 100kHz PWM
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2020-08-08T15:31:44 < qyx> oh it is a modified-sine
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2020-08-08T15:54:38 < karlp> hrm,upgraded to fedora 32, no longer have a hibernate button.
2020-08-08T16:00:15 < sync> :D
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2020-08-08T16:06:45 < karlp> sudo systemctl hibernate works though.
2020-08-08T16:06:49 < karlp> so at least I _can_ hibernate.
2020-08-08T16:07:33 < karlp> power button is set to hibernate, but pressing it does nothing at all, so I guess it's cli to shutdown.  yay
2020-08-08T16:08:16 < strata> i disable hibernation
2020-08-08T16:09:05 < strata> suspend is enough. also more secure.
2020-08-08T16:09:31 < karlp> nvm, power button works
2020-08-08T16:09:40 < karlp> secure?
2020-08-08T16:09:44 < karlp> the fuck are you talking about?
2020-08-08T16:09:54 < karlp> suspend is pointless if I cna't turn off the power
2020-08-08T16:10:12 < qyx> why would you
2020-08-08T16:10:24 < qyx> I am using suspend only too
2020-08-08T16:10:44 < strata> https://bugs.archlinux.org/task/63648
2020-08-08T16:10:45 < karlp> yeah, I switch off my desk at night, hibernate is important for coming back to where I was.
2020-08-08T16:10:56 < strata> see the 3 comments for the concern
2020-08-08T16:10:57 < qyx> oh I suspend it
2020-08-08T16:11:54 < karlp> if someone has physical access to my device to switch to a new kernel via boot params, it's a different world anyway
2020-08-08T16:12:53 < strata> right. it's 2020. my bingo card still has slots for "secret police bust down your door because you offended a tranny"
2020-08-08T16:13:09 < strata> that would constitute physical access
2020-08-08T16:16:12 < Steffanx> Thats because you have this special background... 
2020-08-08T16:16:25 < Steffanx> *history 
2020-08-08T16:18:33 < strata> if they thought i was still of concern, they would have definitely paid me a visit this past week because POTUS was visiting less than 1 mile from my house.
2020-08-08T16:19:24 < strata> maybe they hax0red all my rock64s
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2020-08-08T16:37:59 < Mangy_Dog> damnit strata
2020-08-08T16:38:04 < Mangy_Dog> you missed your chance
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2020-08-08T17:03:13 < sync> karlp: the trick is to never shut down the machine
2020-08-08T17:05:03 < strata> Mangy_Dog: i got to see drumpf! his helicopter at least
2020-08-08T17:07:55 < Mangy_Dog> i for one would not be sad if he rolled over and died of a heart attack...
2020-08-08T17:08:08 < Mangy_Dog> or if his head just randomly exploded mid press conferance
2020-08-08T17:08:30 < Mangy_Dog> the man is one of the purest forms of evil in this world
2020-08-08T17:08:41 < Mangy_Dog> and its trurly scary whats happening in america....
2020-08-08T17:09:01 < strata> those osprey helicopters are rad
2020-08-08T17:09:12 < strata> way bigger than i thought they would be. so loud they shook the house
2020-08-08T17:09:22 < Mangy_Dog> with the rumors and threats that hes still goign to cling to pwoer even if loosing the election... the guy is a true hitler wannabe
2020-08-08T17:10:09 < strata> actually, most presidents "cling to power" after their presidential term.
2020-08-08T17:10:25 < Mangy_Dog> no i mean stay in full power
2020-08-08T17:10:36 < Mangy_Dog> hes already twisting the country into something truly horrific
2020-08-08T17:11:10 < Mangy_Dog> its not a leap of the imagination hes going to go full despot dictator
2020-08-08T17:11:38 < strata> the Amerizuela Dictatorship won't begin with trump, i can assure you of that.
2020-08-08T17:11:41 < Mangy_Dog> or at least try to
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2020-08-08T17:55:06 < Steffanx> Is the USA that much worse than before the trump period?
2020-08-08T17:55:36 < Steffanx> I mean: gooday emeb. How's your day
2020-08-08T18:02:33 < emeb> Steffanx: Just peachy. Woke up a bit ago, now doing the usual morning doom-scroll.
2020-08-08T18:03:08 < emeb> current chuckle: https://twitter.com/slobear/status/1291604600881963013
2020-08-08T18:03:40 < Steffanx> :)
2020-08-08T18:03:55 < PaulFertser> qyx: it was to test inverter quality
2020-08-08T18:04:01 < R2COM> "defund the police"
2020-08-08T18:04:24 < PaulFertser> jpa-: :D
2020-08-08T18:04:27 < R2COM> looks like comments section is full of lefty scumbags
2020-08-08T18:06:30 < emeb> Steffanx: answer to your "US worse?" question - in practical terms and for most average folks things inside the USA are about the same as before.
2020-08-08T18:07:14 < emeb> but the level of mental stress about what's going on seems much higher - too much "churn" at high levels and worry about where it all leads.
2020-08-08T18:08:32 < R2COM> noone with healthy mind is in stress now
2020-08-08T18:08:57 < emeb> :) And you get to define "healthy" :)
2020-08-08T18:11:00 < R2COM> the ones who keep doing their job now and who are not stressed out about racial equality lefty hysteria can be considered healthy - self defined
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2020-08-08T20:26:07 < qyx> https://github.com/vowstar/k210-linux-nommu
2020-08-08T20:26:08 < qyx> whoa
2020-08-08T20:27:11 < englishman> Zyp: I had kumla it was great
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2020-08-08T20:29:04 < zyp> the potato-ball-thing with meat inside?
2020-08-08T20:30:36 < englishman> yes
2020-08-08T20:30:53 < zyp> ah
2020-08-08T20:31:08 < zyp> that's a regional thing, not really a big thing where I'm from
2020-08-08T20:31:40 < zyp> complete with regional names and all; komle/kompe/raspeball
2020-08-08T20:32:12 < englishman> ah not sure exactly where these guys were from
2020-08-08T20:32:30 < englishman> it was full of all those good earthy spices
2020-08-08T20:39:14 < R2COM> 0xE000EF00-0xE000EF03 Nested Vectored Interrupt Controller Table 4-2 on page 4-3
2020-08-08T20:39:16 < R2COM> ^
2020-08-08T20:39:24 < R2COM> line in CM0 CMSIS manual
2020-08-08T20:39:35 < R2COM> 0xE000E100-0xE000E4EF Nested Vectored Interrupt Controller Table 4-2 on page 4-3
2020-08-08T20:39:36 < R2COM> ^
2020-08-08T20:39:46 < R2COM> another line, which actually describes real NVIC layout
2020-08-08T20:39:54 < R2COM> but wtf is the first line of only 3 byte range
2020-08-08T20:40:05 < R2COM> the manual points to same page4-3, table 4-2
2020-08-08T20:40:15 < R2COM> but that page just covers range of 0xE000E100-0xE000E4EF
2020-08-08T20:40:33 < R2COM> i dont understand this shit
2020-08-08T20:40:50 < R2COM> something is fucked up with docs there or what
2020-08-08T20:44:11 < zyp> as far as I can see, e000ef00 is STIR, which doesn't exist in m0 (and thus is reserved)
2020-08-08T20:44:28 < zyp> and being a 32-bit register, it occupies ef00..ef03
2020-08-08T20:44:35 < zyp> not sure what you're looking at
2020-08-08T20:44:59 < R2COM> im looking at: Cortex-M0 Devices Generic User Guide
2020-08-08T20:45:23 < R2COM> ARM DUI 0497A
2020-08-08T20:45:45 < zyp> anyway
2020-08-08T20:45:56 < zyp> the thing about NVIC space is that SCB space is in the middle of it
2020-08-08T20:46:41 < zyp> so you have NVIC ISER, ICER, ISPR, ICPR, IABR and IPR, then a bunch of empty space with SCB in the middle, then STIR
2020-08-08T20:46:59 < R2COM> https://documentation-service.arm.com/static/5ea6ce5e9931941038def8c1?token=
2020-08-08T20:47:15 < R2COM> thats where i was looking at
2020-08-08T20:47:17 < zyp> which page?
2020-08-08T20:47:17 < R2COM> you said it doesnt exist in m0, but that page is for M0?
2020-08-08T20:47:21 < R2COM> let me see
2020-08-08T20:47:30 < R2COM> on top left first if you click download pdf
2020-08-08T20:47:45 < R2COM> and page of pdf is: 105
2020-08-08T20:47:58 < R2COM> chapter 4, or 4.1
2020-08-08T20:48:04 < R2COM> there is Table 4-1
2020-08-08T20:48:39 < zyp> yeah, exactly
2020-08-08T20:49:13 < R2COM> ahh so that empty space of STIR is reserved cuz m0 doesnt have it right
2020-08-08T20:49:17 < R2COM> which is what you say
2020-08-08T20:49:26 < zyp> NVIC is listed twice because NVIC region is cut in two parts with SCB in between
2020-08-08T20:49:29 < R2COM> its just i was puzzled they didnt say it, they just show it as some part of NVIC
2020-08-08T20:49:37 < R2COM> ah
2020-08-08T20:49:40 < zyp> and the last part is only reserved space for the STIR that doesn't exist in m0
2020-08-08T20:50:06 < R2COM> and systick is also seems inbetween of scb too
2020-08-08T20:50:25 < zyp> oh, right, there's two parts to SCB as well
2020-08-08T20:50:53 < R2COM> btw cant find mentioning of first part either
2020-08-08T20:50:59 < zyp> probably also reserved
2020-08-08T20:51:05 < zyp> I'm not sure what it is, I haven't seen it before
2020-08-08T20:51:09 < R2COM> 0xe000 e008 to 0xe000 e00f
2020-08-08T20:51:17 < zyp> could be it only exists on m7 or something
2020-08-08T20:51:40 < R2COM> retarded way of presenting manual without any comments and hints on their end
2020-08-08T20:51:40 < zyp> the nice part of this is that the same layout works across the entire cortex-m range, unsupported stuff is just reserved
2020-08-08T20:51:53 < R2COM> i guess ill just go with what is described in table on corresponding ranges
2020-08-08T20:51:58 < R2COM> and just ignore this undocumented ranges
2020-08-08T20:52:07 < R2COM> yea
2020-08-08T20:52:34 < zyp> if you're trying to make a complete implementation, m0 is probably not a good starting point, it lacks a lot of stuff that the larger ones got
2020-08-08T20:52:35 < R2COM> its nice, just would be better if they mentioend some * hint saying its res. etc
2020-08-08T20:52:47 < R2COM> hm
2020-08-08T20:53:18 < R2COM> so you saying that, if one starts with larger device then it will be less rework to downgrade rather than adding later
2020-08-08T20:53:32 < zyp> https://static.docs.arm.com/ddi0419/d/DDI0419D_armv6m_arm.pdf <- you might want section D3.6.1 on page 322
2020-08-08T20:54:56 < R2COM> hm m0 is armv6 right
2020-08-08T20:55:19 < zyp> yes
2020-08-08T20:55:40 < zyp> m0+ probably is too
2020-08-08T20:55:50 < zyp> and there's differences between m0 and m0+ as well
2020-08-08T20:56:43 < R2COM> f051 and f03 devices im currently planned for are all m0
2020-08-08T20:57:05 < zyp> yeah, f0 is m0
2020-08-08T20:57:10 < zyp> l0 and g0 are m0+
2020-08-08T20:58:29 < zyp> but I mean, whether it's easier to step down or step up depends on how you're looking at it
2020-08-08T20:58:55 < zyp> pretty much every feature you get with the larger ones are optional
2020-08-08T20:59:41 < zyp> i.e. code written for m0 should work unmodified on m0+/m3 and so on (disregarding peripheral differences)
2020-08-08T20:59:54 < zyp> but code written for m3 might rely on features m0 lacks
2020-08-08T21:01:35 < R2COM> right, ill go with looking at m0 only stuff for now, all i wanted is have those unknown addresses to be cleared
2020-08-08T21:01:38 < R2COM> which is done now
2020-08-08T21:01:41 < R2COM> thanks
2020-08-08T21:02:49 < R2COM> but wait what5 is I0 and g0?
2020-08-08T21:02:54 < R2COM> is it even ST mcus or what
2020-08-08T21:03:00 < R2COM> i dont see MCUs with such parts
2020-08-08T21:03:50 < R2COM> ah
2020-08-08T21:04:09 < R2COM> stm32l0 and stm32g0
2020-08-08T21:05:22 < R2COM> nice
2020-08-08T21:06:52 < zyp> yes
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2020-08-09T00:35:03 < Thorn> my boards reboot when I turn on the mosfet that supplies power to the µSD card wtf
2020-08-09T00:37:21 < Steffanx> Didnt you add some nice caps to the usd power rail?
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2020-08-09T00:39:05 < qyx> I would say layout issue!
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2020-08-09T00:41:18 < Thorn> Steffanx those caps are located after the mosfet and may actually contribute to the problem, I'm going to try to remove the bulk one
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2020-08-09T00:42:41 < Thorn> qyx what kind of issue?
2020-08-09T00:43:03 < qyx> I had a similar problem recently
2020-08-09T00:43:14 < Steffanx> Ah. Yeah. Thorn
2020-08-09T00:43:25 < qyx> my board rebooted when I set the charging current to >=1A and connected the power supply
2020-08-09T00:43:31 < qyx> XTAL was too close to a power mosfet
2020-08-09T00:43:51 < Thorn> oh no the xtal is on the other side
2020-08-09T00:44:03 < qyx> under the mosfet?
2020-08-09T00:44:54 < Thorn> lolno, it's on the top but in the far corner of the pcb away from both the buck and the µSD
2020-08-09T00:46:00 < Thorn> I wouldn't put anything under the xtal unless there's solid internal gnd plane
2020-08-09T00:51:04 < R2COM> put voltage probe @ vdd pin closer to mcu to see if theres a drop of supply voltage during that fet turnon
2020-08-09T00:51:35 < R2COM> (scope voltage probe)
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2020-08-09T03:06:19 < Laurenceb> my fellow memebers of the patriarchy
2020-08-09T03:06:37 < Laurenceb> California as in Califate
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2020-08-09T03:21:30 < Laurenceb> https://youtu.be/eXkeE7AEoKw
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2020-08-09T03:39:32 < Cracki> TIL: red light doesn't attract insects... which must be why "red light districts", needing to be lit at night to attract a different type of customer, chose that color
2020-08-09T03:40:14 < Laurenceb> rofl
2020-08-09T03:40:55 < Laurenceb> fucking neighbours woke me up at 8am playing dubstep and grime
2020-08-09T03:41:19 < Laurenceb> ukgrime is so funny, I cant take it seriously
2020-08-09T03:41:28 < Laurenceb> especially when they have a slight posh accent
2020-08-09T03:41:39 < Laurenceb> >Eton school rappers
2020-08-09T03:41:55 < karlp> this is so weird, the effort required to hav eboth socs seems wildly out of line with just "residential" vs commercial
2020-08-09T03:42:31 < karlp> Cracki: correlation doesnt imply causality?
2020-08-09T03:43:07 < Laurenceb> tell that to babbyshake
2020-08-09T03:47:24 < karlp> I'm kinda on the boat that thinks that was your jerb ;)
2020-08-09T03:47:58 < karlp> qyx: nice nommu hackzerizing :)
2020-08-09T03:48:10 < karlp> nommu stuff these days is kinda precious though.
2020-08-09T03:49:20 < karlp> "this is a tutorial, so we didn't use a git submodule for this other project, but it's still running nommu linux on esoteric neuralnetworking hardware, but you know, tutorial!"
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2020-08-09T08:19:50 < jadew`> any ideas on some low cost (but good) 500 MHz scope probes?
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2020-08-09T09:04:38 < Cracki> that implies active, eh?
2020-08-09T09:05:14 < Cracki> inb4 you turn it into a new product: https://www.instructables.com/id/DIY-1GHz-Active-Probe-for-Under-20/
2020-08-09T09:06:15 < Cracki> not sure if that thing butchers the signal
2020-08-09T09:07:17 < Cracki> thesis attached :D
2020-08-09T09:11:41 < Cracki> a german wrote that. "Now, the small signal itches the double-gated fet"
2020-08-09T09:11:48 < Cracki> i'd have said "tickles"
2020-08-09T09:13:03 < Cracki> moar diy active probes upto ghz https://hackaday.com/2016/03/31/diy-active-sub-ghz-differential-scope-probe/
2020-08-09T09:32:22 < jadew`> Cracki, no, you can get passive 500 MHz probes
2020-08-09T09:32:38 < jadew`> I know about those active ones tho
2020-08-09T09:32:43 < jadew`> maybe I should make one too
2020-08-09T09:32:46 < Cracki> ic
2020-08-09T09:34:36 < jadew`> I've never bought a fridge before, but judging by the reviews, they're all garbage
2020-08-09T09:35:10 < jadew`> you'd think that after decades of being in that business, they'd learn to make a good fridge
2020-08-09T09:36:30 < Cracki> who
2020-08-09T09:36:36 < Cracki> what kinda demands do you have?
2020-08-09T09:36:37 < jadew`> everyone it seems
2020-08-09T09:36:44 < Cracki> I expect a fridge to give me 4-8c and -18 c
2020-08-09T09:36:53 < Cracki> and to turn the light on when I open the door
2020-08-09T09:37:00 < jadew`> Cracki, it's for my grandma, I'm just reading the reviews
2020-08-09T09:37:14 < Cracki> and maybe to have some non-retarded way to thaw it and guide the water somewhere
2020-08-09T09:37:17 < Cracki> ic :D
2020-08-09T09:37:25 < jadew`> and I haven't found one yet without serious complaints
2020-08-09T09:37:33 < Cracki> ah, that situation
2020-08-09T09:37:41 < Cracki> half of all amazon users are double digit IQs
2020-08-09T09:37:58 < jadew`> apparently all samsung ones can make a loud noise
2020-08-09T09:38:04 < Cracki> maybe slightly less because it takes a minimum to operate an app
2020-08-09T09:38:12 < jadew`> a loud cracking noise
2020-08-09T09:38:46 < Cracki> loud noise... most vacuums make loud noises too... but they don't have to. people just don't but them unless they sound obnoxious. there are quiet but powerful ones that don't cost a fortune and don't weigh a ton either
2020-08-09T09:38:53 < Cracki> hotels know where to buy quiet ones
2020-08-09T09:39:11 < Cracki> loud cracking noise... maybe the plumbing isn't mounted flexibly
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2020-08-09T09:58:41 < zyp> jadew`, ikea fridges come with these: https://imgur.com/S9HcgKm
2020-08-09T09:59:37 < jadew`> hah
2020-08-09T10:00:11 < jadew`> yeah, what the reviews are describing is louder than the sound a biscuit makes
2020-08-09T10:00:31 < jadew`> they're saying it can wake you up from a different room
2020-08-09T10:00:58 < jadew`> but I like how for everything they show what the cause is, except for the crack
2020-08-09T10:02:36 < Cracki> fridge goes brrr
2020-08-09T10:02:40 < Cracki> meme
2020-08-09T10:03:35 < jadew`> another common complaint is that they're using bad quality plastic
2020-08-09T10:03:58 < jadew`> for some, that they get very hot on the sides
2020-08-09T10:04:11 < jadew`> in fact, it's specified that it shouldn't be next to anything...
2020-08-09T10:04:25 < qyx> Installation is complete, so it is time to boot into your new system.
2020-08-09T10:04:30 < qyx> hah, debian on sama5d27
2020-08-09T10:04:42 < Cracki> fridge backsides should get hot but the sides too? odd
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2020-08-09T10:05:17 < jadew`> yeah...
2020-08-09T10:05:54 < qyx> my sides are hot too
2020-08-09T10:06:12 < qyx> on the fridge I mean
2020-08-09T10:06:22 < jadew`> how hot?
2020-08-09T10:06:27 < zyp> not on mine
2020-08-09T10:06:43 < jadew`> doesn't that mean that you can't have it between pieces of furniture?
2020-08-09T10:07:06 < qyx> yes, they required 5 or 10cm on both sides, idk exactly
2020-08-09T10:07:24 < zyp> probably have the condenser placed on the sides then
2020-08-09T10:07:35 < qyx> looks like that
2020-08-09T10:07:39 < qyx> this is some philco thing
2020-08-09T10:07:51 < qyx> but we had an AEG and it was hot on the left side too
2020-08-09T10:07:53 < zyp> mine is integrated, with the condenser on the back
2020-08-09T10:08:10 < jadew`> does it make cracking noises?
2020-08-09T10:08:47 < zyp> mine? doesn't make a lot of noise at all
2020-08-09T10:09:47 < zyp> mine is this sort of thing: https://bin.jvnv.net/file/AYNj3.jpg
2020-08-09T10:09:51 < zyp> integrated like this: https://bin.jvnv.net/file/PoGWT.jpg
2020-08-09T10:10:16 < jadew`> ah neat
2020-08-09T10:10:20 < zyp> can barely hear a whirring if you put your ear close
2020-08-09T10:10:33 < jadew`> I guess the enclosure helps too
2020-08-09T10:10:37 < zyp> yeah
2020-08-09T10:10:43 < jadew`> although, I assume it's opened in the back, no?
2020-08-09T10:10:50 < jadew`> it's just a mask
2020-08-09T10:10:57 < jadew`> right?
2020-08-09T10:11:15 < zyp> there's vents in the top and bottom
2020-08-09T10:11:31 < jadew`> ah, so no, neat
2020-08-09T10:12:07 < jadew`> do you have to defrost it or it's automatic?
2020-08-09T10:12:19 < jadew`> I think most of the problems stem from that
2020-08-09T10:12:50 < jadew`> classic technology didn't have all these issues
2020-08-09T10:13:03 < zyp> I think it's supposed to be automatic, I haven't done shit about it for a year and a half and I haven't noticed any significant ice buildup yet
2020-08-09T10:18:18 < Cracki> fancy, frost free freezers, fan removes humid air
2020-08-09T10:18:29 < Cracki> we truly live in the future
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2020-08-09T11:16:51 < qyx> fucking systemd trash
2020-08-09T11:17:07 < qyx> it needs at least ~16MB of tmpfs space to be able to reload a daemon
2020-08-09T11:17:14 < qyx> such waste of memory
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2020-08-09T12:42:51 < antto> aww
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2020-08-09T16:31:41 < GenTooMan> antto I think almost everyone swears about systemd in one way or another.
2020-08-09T16:33:26 < antto> maybe you need to be reminded of something worse then
2020-08-09T16:33:34 < antto> svchost.exe
2020-08-09T16:39:22 < GenTooMan> me? no not really I'm pragmatic most people are "not connected" to the fact is "what would you replace it with?" sure they complain but there are much worse alternatives.
2020-08-09T16:41:45 < GenTooMan> notice I didn't say there was a "better" solution, yet to see one at all.
2020-08-09T18:03:50 < strata> meterpreter
2020-08-09T18:36:49 < Cracki> ^
2020-08-09T18:39:07 < Cracki> there *are* alternatives. they needn't be better in every regard. they're better in some regards. there is valid criticism. that stands regardless.
2020-08-09T18:39:46 < Cracki> if someone built a big bridge that wobbles, you don't go "show me a better one". you say "this is shit, it needs to be fixed or redone"
2020-08-09T18:40:37 < Cracki> the attempts to defend a bad actor continue to amaze me
2020-08-09T18:41:32 < Cracki> people have _standards_. they exist regardless of practical choices. you do NOT have to accept shit engineering.
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2020-08-09T19:33:52 < strata> correct. if you don't like shit engineering, there are still forests to walk into and disappear. but the window for having the free will to do such an act is closing fast.
2020-08-09T19:34:42 < aandrew> I don't see what was wrong with sysv to be honest
2020-08-09T19:35:03 < aandrew> systemd is kind of the anti-oss way of doing things, it's surpising how fast it gained so much traction
2020-08-09T19:38:41 < mawk> systemd isn't that bad from a technical point of view
2020-08-09T19:38:47 < mawk> it's even pretty good
2020-08-09T19:41:14 < mawk> but the management and dev process sucks quite a bit
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2020-08-09T19:49:44 < Cracki> "systemd" is taking over subsystems and functions like cancer. it's not even pretending to be a proper re-engineering of everything. the person/people behind systemd don't even have the skillset to get right what they're doing so far
2020-08-09T19:49:49 < Cracki> I looked at the code.
2020-08-09T19:49:56 < Cracki> it's on par with what I wrote in high school
2020-08-09T19:50:51 < Cracki> he took ideas from other OSes (yes, windows services in particular) but he doesn't have the brains to execute
2020-08-09T19:51:45 < strata> well. you're a proud homosexual and so is lennart. your mission, if you choose to accept it, is to befriend him and become his lover and encourage him to do better.
2020-08-09T19:51:59 < Cracki> beside the "management and dev process" there's how they pushed and cajoled distributions into adopting it
2020-08-09T19:52:18 < Cracki> "merit" didn't factor into it anywhere
2020-08-09T19:52:26 < Cracki> lol dude
2020-08-09T19:53:01 < Cracki> people like that can only be encouraged with cattle prods
2020-08-09T19:53:26 < Cracki> and I'm not sure he's the type who'd enjoy that
2020-08-09T19:54:01 < strata> but if he is... you could go down in history as the savior of all humanity.
2020-08-09T19:54:33 < Cracki> the nuclear reactors haven't been built to supply the energy needed for that mission
2020-08-09T19:55:06 < jpa-> systemd seems pretty ok to me, certainly more sane than sysvinit
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2020-08-09T19:55:27 < strata> ITER will be semi-operational by 2025. that's only 5 years away. we just have to make it through a pandemic, a global great depression, famine, natural disasters, and a new world order globalist takeover first. no problem, Cracki! be optimistic.
2020-08-09T19:55:57 < Cracki> lol iter, don't get me (or it) started
2020-08-09T19:56:01 < zyp> jpa-, agreed, it's nice to have something that's not build from rubber bands and paperclips
2020-08-09T19:56:13 < zyp> built*
2020-08-09T19:56:22 < jpa-> and being able to have per-user services is great
2020-08-09T19:56:24 < mawk> systemd has this container engine that's light and pretty cool
2020-08-09T19:56:32 < Cracki> hah you guys should see the insides of systemd. it's the compiled version of rubber bands and paperclips
2020-08-09T19:56:38 < Cracki> with a coat of paint
2020-08-09T19:56:46 < jpa-> Cracki: link to a specific example of a single rubber band
2020-08-09T19:57:07 < mawk> yeah I submitted a patch for them once, I had to see the code
2020-08-09T19:57:14 < mawk> I didn't remember it as particularly elegant
2020-08-09T19:57:40 < jpa-> elegant C code is pretty rare
2020-08-09T19:57:59 < jpa-> elegant chainsaw cuts are rare also
2020-08-09T19:58:08 < jpa-> but it gets the stuff done
2020-08-09T19:58:12 < mawk> my C code is elegant :(
2020-08-09T19:58:18 < jpa-> mawk: link?
2020-08-09T19:58:22 < mawk> lol
2020-08-09T19:58:28 < jpa-> seriously.
2020-08-09T19:58:44 < mawk> I'll find it later, I'm on a phone
2020-08-09T19:59:26 < zyp> jpa-, how's inventing? what have you been working on lately?
2020-08-09T19:59:51 < Cracki> browse this, I'll find you specific articles http://fromthecodefront.blogspot.com/
2020-08-09T20:00:05 < jpa-> zyp: reinventing bldc controlling for a ridicuously low pay
2020-08-09T20:00:39 < jpa-> i was like "hey, i've done a bldc controller once, this job will be easy, 5000 USD should be ok" .. a couple of months later: "well, at least i learned a lot"
2020-08-09T20:00:40 < Cracki> http://fromthecodefront.blogspot.com/2017/10/the-curse-of-silent-assumption.html
2020-08-09T20:00:48 < Laurenceb> Search engines were nice (in the days of AltaVista) when you can find pirated games and movies, step-by-step instructions on how to synthesis methamphetamine, and other useful information. Now it’s just designed to sell you stuff and auction off your online habits. 
2020-08-09T20:01:32 < jpa-> Cracki: i can't see how that is relevant, seems to be just listing general pitfalls
2020-08-09T20:01:45 < Cracki> some specific functions named http://fromthecodefront.blogspot.com/2017/07/systemd-pitfalls.html
2020-08-09T20:02:25 < jpa-> zyp: i *hope* to score some money from google patch rewards, then i could maybe focus the rest of the year getting my logic analyzer thingy ready
2020-08-09T20:02:47 < zyp> what logic analyzer thingy?
2020-08-09T20:02:58 < Cracki> yesterday I saw someone threaten to release all his patches (and accompanying PoCs) because google hasn't been paying him bounties for over half a year
2020-08-09T20:03:31 < Laurenceb> realse all his people of colour?
2020-08-09T20:03:31 < Cracki> I fully expect the last link to remain undebated
2020-08-09T20:03:36 < Cracki> yes those too
2020-08-09T20:03:40 < Laurenceb> lmao
2020-08-09T20:04:09 < jpa-> zyp: some stm32h7 to high-speed usb thingy, using QSPI for 200MSps captures
2020-08-09T20:04:26 < zyp> ah
2020-08-09T20:04:52 < jpa-> Cracki: that last link just appears like a bug and issues list - what application does not have bugs and issues?
2020-08-09T20:05:01 < Cracki> tyvm
2020-08-09T20:05:18 < Laurenceb> >I see we had another fine match between the Harlem Globetrotters (Pedocrats – Evil Party) and the Washington Generals (Gay Old Pedos – Stupid Party)
2020-08-09T20:08:50 < jpa-> Cracki: that's not rubber bands at all, this is what rubber bands is like: https://github.com/nanopb/nanopb/blob/master/pb.h#L490
2020-08-09T20:09:10 < Cracki> you're giving yourself too little credit
2020-08-09T20:09:47 < Cracki> that is dealing with the limits of C in creative and abstracting ways
2020-08-09T20:10:42 < jpa-> oh, i'll have to remember that, i can say it the next time someone vomits over line 592
2020-08-09T20:10:42 < zyp> haha, fuck
2020-08-09T20:11:22 < Laurenceb> If it were not for the CDC drug and vaccine pimps hyping the fake virus, fake test, and fake numbers the goy would not be under the psychological effects of a phony virus and would not be wearing face diapers and sucking their on waste products back in their lungs
2020-08-09T20:12:06 < zyp> Laurenceb, fuck off with that
2020-08-09T20:12:08 < Cracki> I prefer to call it a "fig leaf"
2020-08-09T20:12:36 < Laurenceb> mask interferes with the natural breathing system
2020-08-09T20:12:41 < jpa-> i thought brexit was supposed to get Laurenceb off our internets - isn't that why everyone voted for it?
2020-08-09T20:12:42 < Laurenceb> Q told me, trust the plan
2020-08-09T20:12:44 < mawk> lol
2020-08-09T20:12:48 < mawk> trust the plan
2020-08-09T20:14:07 < jpa-> zyp: so, what are you innovating these days? still that big industrial looking metal cage that i've forgotten what it contains?
2020-08-09T20:14:19 < Laurenceb> slaves
2020-08-09T20:15:07 < zyp> jpa-, haven't been inventing much lately, but I picked up one of those RK3399 SOM devkits
2020-08-09T20:17:59 < zyp> I keep having this silly idea of putting four of these on a card with an ethernet switch, and then 16 of those cards in a subrack chassis, to make a 64-node ghetto blade server
2020-08-09T20:18:34 < zyp> I don't know what the fuck it'd be useful for though
2020-08-09T20:18:49 < Cracki> oh, a third article, with direct links to systemd source, that may be dismissed as "bugs and issues" or be recognized as a pattern of incompetence http://fromthecodefront.blogspot.com/2017/10/systemd-no.html
2020-08-09T20:19:54 < jpa-> Cracki: i actually thought you looked at the code yourself and found some problem with it, instead of just reading other people'
2020-08-09T20:19:56 < jpa-> s rants
2020-08-09T20:20:20 < Cracki> ¯\_(ツ)_/¯ can't please some people
2020-08-09T20:20:26 < mawk> people can be ranting but still right
2020-08-09T20:20:46 < Cracki> and yes I looked at that code. I have had this site bookmarked since he wrote the articles because I chatted with him at the time
2020-08-09T20:20:51 < jpa-> sure, i'm not claiming they aren't right, i'm claiming Cracki wasn't actually looking at the source that hard :)
2020-08-09T20:21:07 < Cracki> that's not an argument for anything
2020-08-09T20:21:24 < Cracki> so the only reason you're saying that is to distract from the matter itself
2020-08-09T20:21:42 < Cracki> there's this pyramid of debate tactics
2020-08-09T20:22:01 < jpa-> oh, sorry, i didn't mean to discuss systemd usefulness that much at all as it's an useless debate that's been talked through so many times - i'm just trying to piss you off
2020-08-09T20:22:33 < Cracki> I realize that. you had an agreeable few months a short while ago. that seems to have ended sadly
2020-08-09T20:22:48 < jpa-> you mean the months i was too busy to chat? :P
2020-08-09T20:22:55 < Laurenceb> >get the cucks to put diapers on their face so they breathe in their own waste products all day as they isolate themselves. That way they don’t forget about the fake virus
2020-08-09T20:23:01 < Laurenceb> Strata spotted
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2020-08-09T20:24:19 < Cracki> you weren't remotely "too busy to chat" in the time between april and july
2020-08-09T20:26:12 < jpa-> i've written 888 lines in that time period, you've written 7528
2020-08-09T20:26:34 < zyp> quality > quantity
2020-08-09T20:26:38 < jpa-> that's probably why i've appeared agreeable 90% of the time :)
2020-08-09T20:29:31 < Cracki> "quality > quantity" is a rich thing to say during a systemd flamewar
2020-08-09T20:30:00 < jpa-> Cracki: but honestly, there is a lot of terrible C code out there, but from a cursory look systemd is surprisingly clean
2020-08-09T20:30:47 < jpa-> what i *could* agree about is interpersonal issues about lennart, but that's a completely different story
2020-08-09T20:31:43 < zyp> I have no doubt he's an asshole :p
2020-08-09T20:32:10 < jpa-> but on the other hand, so is linus torvalds, and it has worked out ok
2020-08-09T20:34:13 < jpa-> regarding having time to do stuff, i bet that second wave of corona hits immediately when our son goes back to daycare in september
2020-08-09T20:44:06 < emeb> wave(n+1)
2020-08-09T20:44:12 < emeb> for the foreseeable future
2020-08-09T20:46:26 < jpa-> well, considering all the mistakes finland made in controlling the first wave and how quickly it stopped nevertheless, the second one probably won't be that big of a deal
2020-08-09T20:48:20 < strata> the agenda is to be complete by 2050 but there is a major milestone set for 2030
2020-08-09T20:48:28 < strata> so the covid waves will occur until at least then
2020-08-09T20:49:20 < strata> the increase in authoritarianism between now and 2030 is unimaginable too.
2020-08-09T20:58:10 < englishman> I'm travelling atm
2020-08-09T20:58:19 < englishman> and getting funny looks when I tell people where I'm from
2020-08-09T20:58:43 < englishman> but the planes and hotels were all full
2020-08-09T20:58:50 < englishman> so what does it matter where I'm from really
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2020-08-09T21:18:50 < Steffanx> hotels full, hows that even possible in this time englishman?
2020-08-09T21:19:46 < jpa-> everyone travelling in their own country to destinations that they think are not usually popular?
2020-08-09T21:20:35 < Steffanx> only thing here full is probably the beaches
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2020-08-09T21:20:43 < Steffanx> and other swimming spots
2020-08-09T21:41:00 -!- rapha [~rapha@unaffiliated/rapha] has joined ##stm32
2020-08-09T21:41:03 < rapha> hi all
2020-08-09T21:49:37 < Steffanx> Hello Sir.
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2020-08-09T22:01:03 < rapha> hey Steffanx :)
2020-08-09T22:01:14 < rapha> sooo i've decided to play around with CubeMX first, for a while
2020-08-09T22:04:43 < rapha> just to get a hang of things as they are "officially"...
2020-08-09T22:06:14 < rapha> (but currently baking a chocolate cake to take my mind off of the vastness of ARM lands as well as the fucking heat)
2020-08-09T22:14:44 < Steffanx> From what part of the world is rapha?
2020-08-09T22:16:24 < rapha> Born in West Germany, but living in the East by choice
2020-08-09T22:16:27 < rapha> and Steffanx?
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2020-08-09T22:17:46 < Steffanx> dutchland
2020-08-09T22:19:13 < benishor> dutchlandia meets deutschlandia
2020-08-09T22:20:13 < Steffanx>  \o/
2020-08-09T22:20:52 < rapha> \o/
2020-08-09T22:20:56 < rapha> Welke vrienden! :-P
2020-08-09T22:20:58 < rapha> (Or so...)
2020-08-09T22:21:07 < rapha> Ik spraak gaan Nederlands.
2020-08-09T22:21:25 < benishor> thank goodness for google translate
2020-08-09T22:21:35 < Steffanx> "Ik spreek geen nederlands" ;)
2020-08-09T22:21:38 < rapha> Or not...
2020-08-09T22:21:43 < rapha> Ah, damn vowels!
2020-08-09T22:21:52 < rapha> Maar het is een lekkere spraak.
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2020-08-09T22:24:07 < kakinull> pump permitted
2020-08-09T22:24:39 < kakinull> computer advices required
2020-08-09T22:24:46 < kakinull> I cloned my SSD to NVMe
2020-08-09T22:24:51 < Steffanx> no amd
2020-08-09T22:25:10 < kakinull> it doesnt appear in uefi
2020-08-09T22:25:24 < rapha> pump?
2020-08-09T22:26:45 < rapha> Steffanx: Amsterdam heeft super botanie.
2020-08-09T22:27:21 < rapha> Wait, what's the temp like for you guys?
2020-08-09T22:27:33 < Steffanx> 29.9
2020-08-09T22:27:41 < kakinull> apprently grub update is required so that bootloader is registered to uefi
2020-08-09T22:27:50 < Steffanx> ok it dropped to 29 °C
2020-08-09T22:27:57 < rapha> Wow, that's more than 7 lower than here :(
2020-08-09T22:28:09 < Steffanx> Still too high
2020-08-09T22:28:13 < rapha> Ok, here in the afternoon. Not here now.
2020-08-09T22:28:15 < rapha> True.
2020-08-09T22:28:45 < kakinull> tommorow 18C
2020-08-09T22:28:48 < kakinull> same as in my room
2020-08-09T22:29:17 < Steffanx> its also 29 in my room. and probably will be all night long. I'll have my on private sauna \o/
2020-08-09T22:29:36 < Mangy_Dog> naked time in the sauna
2020-08-09T22:29:38 < Mangy_Dog> woo
2020-08-09T22:29:52 < Steffanx> not naked in the sauna, is that a thing?
2020-08-09T22:30:12 < Mangy_Dog> the uk is rather prude most places require bathing suite
2020-08-09T22:33:27 < kakinull> there is unisex saunas with no bathsuit requirement in funland
2020-08-09T22:34:11 < rapha> hmm
2020-08-09T22:34:26 < rapha> germany mostly has that kind of sauna
2020-08-09T22:34:33 < rapha> and guess who we learned from about that kakinull 
2020-08-09T22:35:40 < kakinull> idk
2020-08-09T22:36:25 < kakinull> germans take it to next level though
2020-08-09T22:36:36 < rapha> well, from the Finnish
2020-08-09T22:36:48 < kakinull> are you sure?
2020-08-09T22:36:58 < kakinull> how about nudism?
2020-08-09T22:37:03 < rapha> hmm
2020-08-09T22:37:09 < rapha> nudism != sauna
2020-08-09T22:37:21 < rapha> sure, nudism is probably a (eastern) german thing
2020-08-09T22:37:30 < rapha> very weird for a western german when you first get here
2020-08-09T22:37:47 < rapha> but now i'm kind of glad i can just skip the stupid towel when changing at the lake
2020-08-09T22:38:00 < rapha> unnecessarily complicates things
2020-08-09T22:39:19 < rapha> oh cool, HAL actually seems to have a #define for PA15
2020-08-09T22:40:07 < qyx> shouldnt it?
2020-08-09T22:40:20 < rapha> i dunno. this is my first blink.
2020-08-09T22:41:57 < rapha> okay, question: the example has "#define LED_GPIO_CLK_ENABLE() __HAL_RCC_GPIOA_CLK_ENABLE()" ... i didn't know #defines could have parentheses ... is that, like, a const function?
2020-08-09T22:42:27 < effractur> defines are just macros
2020-08-09T22:42:30 < effractur> they can have arguments
2020-08-09T22:42:35 < rapha> okay
2020-08-09T22:42:38 < effractur> and are expanded before compilation
2020-08-09T22:42:43 < effractur> so it will be inlined
2020-08-09T22:42:55 < rapha> so the _meaning_ of "macro" is "will be expanded before compilation"?
2020-08-09T22:43:07 < effractur> yes it just does a "stupid" search replace
2020-08-09T22:43:11 < rapha> okay
2020-08-09T22:43:12 < effractur> before it is fed to the compiler
2020-08-09T22:43:23 < effractur> so in this case it will be a function all to __HAL_RCC_GPIOA_CLK_ENABLE()
2020-08-09T22:43:53 < effractur> also see https://gcc.gnu.org/onlinedocs/cpp/Macros.html#Macros
2020-08-09T22:44:27 < rapha> oh. wait. now i tried to _use_ the "#define LED_PIN PA15" thing, and it gives "PA15 undeclared" :-(
2020-08-09T22:44:52 < effractur> well that will just replace LED_PIN to PA15
2020-08-09T22:44:57 < effractur> so if PA15 is a unkown variable etc
2020-08-09T22:44:59 < effractur> it will not work
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2020-08-09T22:45:21 < effractur> or if the file where PA15 is deifned is not included etc
2020-08-09T22:45:35 < rapha> so far i only #include "stm32f0xx_hal.h"
2020-08-09T22:45:53 < rapha> (trying to make https://docs.platformio.org/en/latest/tutorials/ststm32/stm32cube_debugging_unit_testing.html#tutorial-stm32cube-debugging-unit-testing work with an F042)
2020-08-09T22:47:37 < effractur> well PA15 is not defined in the HAL so that would not work indeed
2020-08-09T22:47:50 < rapha> hmm okay PA15 wouldn't make sense for a name, since it can be assigned to different physical pins
2020-08-09T22:48:26 < effractur> the hal only defines the PINS / ports
2020-08-09T22:48:54 < rapha> and how does it know that i have an LQFP32 package and my pin for PA15 is 25?
2020-08-09T22:48:56 < effractur> so pin 15 on port A would be GPIO_PIN_15 with LED_GPIO_PORT set to GPIOA
2020-08-09T22:49:24 < effractur> the ports are all the same on the silicon just the wires in the package are different
2020-08-09T22:50:10 < rapha> okay, so "pin" doesn't mean "physical pin", it means "the number from table 13 of the datasheet, column "pin name""
2020-08-09T22:50:26 < effractur> yes
2020-08-09T22:50:33 < rapha> okay. fair enough.
2020-08-09T22:53:11 < rapha> effractur: the next problem is that (unlike with the F401?) there is no GPIO_SPEED_HIGH defined - looking at https://www.st.com/resource/en/user_manual/dm00122015-description-of-stm32f0-hal-and-lowlayer-drivers-stmicroelectronics.pdf ... is the one that I want "GPIO_SPEED_FREQ_HIGH"?
2020-08-09T22:53:27 < rapha> (or LL_GPIO_SPEED_HIGH?)
2020-08-09T22:53:57 < rapha> oh wait, the Changes table has it!
2020-08-09T22:54:09 < rapha> wow, you really need to jump back and forth between a lot of PDFs for this
2020-08-09T22:54:42 < effractur> yea or just search the header files
2020-08-09T22:54:47 < effractur> often easier
2020-08-09T22:54:58 < rapha> I see
2020-08-09T22:56:48 < rapha> Okay, got a compiling (and ostensibly working) blink program now.
2020-08-09T22:56:58 < effractur> :D
2020-08-09T22:57:35 < rapha> effractur: https://gist.github.com/sixtyfive/0f23316b44d1b22351583fd8cdf97c1b ... is this how you would write it, too? Or is it possible to write it more succinctly?
2020-08-09T22:58:36 < effractur> looks okayisch, for a somewhat larger project i would probaly write some wrappers /macros for the initaliasation for the Initstructs but other then that seems fine
2020-08-09T22:59:27 < rapha> well, eventually the project is going to have to be somewhat larger :P
2020-08-09T22:59:46 < effractur> but that is mostly personal preference
2020-08-09T23:02:19 < rapha> hmm it seems macros must not contain newlines
2020-08-09T23:02:24 < rapha> how do you write such a big macro then?
2020-08-09T23:02:57 < effractur> they can
2020-08-09T23:03:04 < effractur> but you need to escape them
2020-08-09T23:03:09 < rapha> ah
2020-08-09T23:03:18 < effractur> https://www.geeksforgeeks.org/multiline-macros-in-c/
2020-08-09T23:03:21 < effractur> for example
2020-08-09T23:03:38 < effractur> that is a macro with arguments 
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2020-08-09T23:06:08 < kakinull> macros are the bestest
2020-08-09T23:06:23 < rapha> effractur: okay, https://gist.github.com/sixtyfive/0f23316b44d1b22351583fd8cdf97c1b does look nicer now. but what's with the SysTick_Handler thing? it's not being reference anywhere, so that seems kind of magic. especially since removing it, the code still compiles.
2020-08-09T23:08:31 < effractur> rapha: that is needed to ingrement a global counter that some specific funtions use for time tracking
2020-08-09T23:08:58 < effractur> and the delay funtion uses it afaik so it can suspect the core
2020-08-09T23:09:04 < effractur> until an interupt is fired afaik
2020-08-09T23:09:05 < rapha> aha!
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2020-08-09T23:10:01 < rapha> indeed: https://stackoverflow.com/questions/46062122/delay-in-hal-library-hal-delay
2020-08-09T23:10:20 < effractur> rapha: if you want it to make it more clean have the led_init macro the port and th epin as arugment
2020-08-09T23:10:26 < effractur> so it is somewhat more protable
2020-08-09T23:10:57 < rapha> hmm perhaps for learning purposes
2020-08-09T23:11:16 < rapha> built my own board and want to write something that'll only make sense with that
2020-08-09T23:14:04 < rapha> effractur: okay, now it looks like this: https://gist.github.com/sixtyfive/0f23316b44d1b22351583fd8cdf97c1b
2020-08-09T23:20:44 < rapha> effractur: but what if the port was B? then LED_GPIO_CLK_ENABLE() needs to be adjusted. is there a way that i can call __HAL_RCC_GPIO$port_CLK_ENABLE() dynamically from within the LED_Init() macro?
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2020-08-09T23:43:21 < rapha> wow all the examples i google, people use the CubeMX code generator ... that is ... abhorrent O_O
2020-08-09T23:48:25 < Cracki> no dynamic
2020-08-09T23:48:56 < Cracki> it generates the code for you. if you move things around on pins, code will change in a bunch of places
2020-08-09T23:49:18 < rapha> Cracki: those two things were not related.
2020-08-09T23:49:20 < Cracki> you can use HAL itself without code gen, but then you're still gonna have to write that init code and adjust what's supposed to happen, the same way
2020-08-09T23:49:31 < Cracki> ok then
2020-08-09T23:50:04 < rapha> the first one was me trying to understand macros better, the second about me trying to discover this new world
2020-08-09T23:50:19 < Cracki> I am only referring to the last handful of lines
2020-08-09T23:50:39 < rapha> yes, the very last one was completely unrelated
2020-08-09T23:50:48 < Cracki> I give up. afk
2020-08-09T23:50:51 < rapha> okay :)
2020-08-09T23:50:59 < rapha> have fun, whatever else you're doing :)
--- Day changed Mon Aug 10 2020
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2020-08-10T00:05:16 < rapha> ouch.
2020-08-10T00:05:33 < rapha> effractur: i was so stupid. https://gist.github.com/sixtyfive/0f23316b44d1b22351583fd8cdf97c1b 
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2020-08-10T00:06:42 < rapha> next stop, figuring out how to enable PWM on a given pin and how to change the duty cycle. basically i'm learning how to re-implement Arduino :P
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2020-08-10T01:53:27  * GenTooMan feels suddenly a need to bathe after hearing the word Arduino ...
2020-08-10T02:06:06 < Cracki> gentooino
2020-08-10T02:06:23 < Cracki> builds the whole system on every upload
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2020-08-10T02:31:45 < GenTooMan> when you enter RSYNC through the virtual console
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2020-08-10T02:42:31 < qyx> rapha: wtf is that gigantic multiline macro
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2020-08-10T02:43:34 < qyx> multiline macros were among the first things banned by our coding style guide
2020-08-10T02:48:59 < englishman> Trudeau said this
2020-08-10T02:49:17 < englishman> after someone who smuggled illegal guns into the country killed people with arson
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2020-08-10T02:52:26 < karlp> any pros know what I need to install on an ubuntu 20 system to get stdlib.h and string.h to work? https://j4.beeroclock.net/job/karl-locm3-tests/14/console
2020-08-10T02:52:49 < karlp> I tried apt install gcc-arm-none-eabi libnewlib-nano-arm-none-eabi binutils-arm-none-eabi, do I really need to use the arm packages still?
2020-08-10T02:55:48 < karlp> apparently needed to install libnewlib-arm-none-eabi as well...
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2020-08-10T04:25:39 < R2COM> zyp in your code in laks, you use template functions for interrupt vectors; usually template functions gainful in situations where they called only when they are used, in that case "templating" it saves code size, but in your case, you have every function call defined or "used" in that vector...so, making those interrupt handlers a templates doesnt win anything code/size wize, correct me if 
2020-08-10T04:25:39 < R2COM> im wrong
2020-08-10T04:26:59 < R2COM> in other words, template function instantiated only if its called or its address taken (which it is by vectors table), so those could just as well be regular functions, and templating doesnt improve anything
2020-08-10T04:28:26 < R2COM> Arduino is an N-word of electronics, you never supposed to say it fully, extremely offensive
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2020-08-10T08:11:20 < englishman> Under the terms of the Foreign Investment Protection Act (FIPA), a bi-lateral treaty ratified with China by the Trudeau government in 2019, Chinese security forces can be stationed on Canadian soil to protect vital Chinese investments, without the knowledge or consent of local authorities.
2020-08-10T08:11:24 < englishman> scary
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2020-08-10T09:08:11 < zyp> R2COM, you're correct apart from the part where you don't think it improves anything
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2020-08-10T09:24:02 < R2COM> what does it improve
2020-08-10T09:35:22 < jpa-> R2COM: i don't think the templated functions actually get generated there, because they have that weak alias
2020-08-10T09:36:53 < jpa-> but i haven't studied in detail
2020-08-10T09:38:58 < jpa-> R2COM: to me it seems like if you define    void interrupt<Interrupt::XYZ>() {}   somewhere else, you get interrupts passed there directly without overhead; if you use Interrupt::set_handler(), it goes through the unused_interrupt() bouncer to the function pointer in ram mf_vectors[]
2020-08-10T09:46:28 < R2COM> and that means one extra delay stage then
2020-08-10T09:52:32 < jpa-> yeah, the extra delay is unavoidable if you want to use member functions as interrupt handlers
2020-08-10T09:54:14 < jpa-> at least zyp is doing it with the least overhead using that reinterpret_cast in interrupt.h; in my nuttx code i end up having one bouncer add the void* parameter, and another casting that to the class type for calling member function
2020-08-10T09:54:37 < R2COM> what is the benefit which templated isr implementation brings over there?
2020-08-10T09:54:56 < jpa-> compared to what?
2020-08-10T09:55:09 < R2COM> compared to if i just did it with bare functions
2020-08-10T09:55:31 < jpa-> the biggest benefit is that the code can easily convert interrupt number <-> interrupt function
2020-08-10T09:56:09 < R2COM> you could do that in unused_interrupt function by reading ipsr whatever
2020-08-10T09:56:22 < jpa-> but then you need that member function bouncer overhead *always*
2020-08-10T09:56:37 < jpa-> the templates allow avoiding it whenever you can make the handler static, which is almost always
2020-08-10T09:56:46 < R2COM> no i mean you would do it for unassigned interrupt routine right?
2020-08-10T09:56:56 < jpa-> ?
2020-08-10T09:56:57 < R2COM> for assinged and if its called properly you already know which interrupt is called
2020-08-10T09:57:18 < jpa-> you need interrupt number <-> function conversion in lot of cases
2020-08-10T09:57:25 < jpa-> like, say, enabling an interrupt
2020-08-10T09:57:54 < R2COM> but enabling interrupt is different story, its about writing some bits in memory area tied to NVIC addr etc
2020-08-10T09:58:18 < jpa-> with bare function you have code like    NVIC_EnableIRQ(TIM1_IRQn); void TIM1_IRQHandler() { ... }     and then you can't easily have    Timer<TIM1> mytimer; 
2020-08-10T09:58:33 < R2COM> im now talking about ISR, if interrupt occured, and you need to do stuff, if interrupt occured for which you didnt write function it goes to default_function, which then will pull ipsr to know at least interrupt number etc
2020-08-10T09:59:06 < jpa-> ok, you are getting confused by the member function stuff which is the rare path, as far as i can tell
2020-08-10T09:59:09 < jpa-> look more into interrupt.h
2020-08-10T09:59:58 < jpa-> void interrupt<Interrupt::TIM2>()   is exactly equivalent to     void interrupthandler_TIM2()    except the name of the function is automatically constructed by c++ - it is still just a function
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2020-08-10T10:09:47 < zyp> jpa-, the mf_vector shit is unrelated and unused
2020-08-10T10:12:33 < jpa-> yeah, though it looks useful and well made also
2020-08-10T10:12:37 < zyp> the whole template stuff is just about making symbol names
2020-08-10T10:13:16 < zyp> to write foo<a>, foo<b>, foo<c> and so on, instead of foo_a, foo_b and foo_c
2020-08-10T10:13:24 < jpa-> i've needed member function interrupts when making a system where different kinds of sensors can be attached to identical ports, so that it has to decide which adc / timer / etc. is used at runtime, and make an instance of a class for each sensor
2020-08-10T10:13:59 < zyp> the difference between foo_a and foo<a> is that in the latter case, a is an identifier on its own, from e.g. enum {a, b, c}
2020-08-10T10:14:30 < zyp> and this allows for compile time checking that the identifier actually exists in the enum
2020-08-10T10:15:32 < zyp> e.g. foo<x> would turn into a compiler error if x doesn't exist, foo_x is a valid function name
2020-08-10T10:16:23 < zyp> and since registering interrupts rely on overriding weak functions, you don't get any error if you define foo_x despite there not being a weak foo_x to override
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2020-08-10T10:55:44 < rapha> qyx: so you would make it a regular function in a separate file?
2020-08-10T11:02:12 < qyx> I would make it a regular function, either a static one in the same file or a separate file with associated header
2020-08-10T11:02:31 < qyx> init is not a thing which is and should be called from multiple places
2020-08-10T11:03:02 < qyx> it even doesn't make any runtime slowdown except on startup, so optimization is not a concern too
2020-08-10T11:04:12 < rapha> okay, got it
2020-08-10T11:04:39 < qyx> also the approach is hiding some important details
2020-08-10T11:05:39 < qyx> which I don't like, but meh
2020-08-10T11:06:07 < qyx> eg. in main.c, there is no include declaring what HAL_Delay is
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2020-08-10T12:47:34 < rapha> it was taken originally from a ST tutorial and changed according to suggestions here on the chan. i'm trying to learn, so opinionated answers are very helpful :) ... do i understand correctly that you'd repeat "#include "stm32f0xx_hal.h"" in main.c?
2020-08-10T12:53:38 < qyx> I would because it makes sense for me
2020-08-10T12:53:49 < qyx> I am not using "aggregate headers" like all.h
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2020-08-10T12:54:09 < qyx> the same applies for eg. not using typedefs for structs when you are directly accessing their members
2020-08-10T12:54:44 < qyx> you *want' to see struct foo *bar eg. in the function proto
2020-08-10T12:55:15 < qyx> to know you have to do bar->something
2020-08-10T12:55:29 < qyx> instead of having Bar *foo or even Bar foo
2020-08-10T12:55:43 < qyx> and the using your crystall ball to do foo->something
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2020-08-10T14:22:50 < jpa-> huh, i never knew how common it is that realloc() is implemented as malloc + memcpy
2020-08-10T14:34:49 < Steffanx> Really?
2020-08-10T14:36:56 < zyp> hmm
2020-08-10T14:37:06 < jpa-> that i really didn't believe, or that really that it is implemented that way?
2020-08-10T14:37:14 < jpa-> at least newlib-nano does it that way
2020-08-10T14:37:57 < jpa-> another fun thing about newlib-nano is that its fragmentation behavior differs a lot depending on whether the memory is coming from freelist or from sbrk()
2020-08-10T14:38:05 < zyp> if I have a stm8 that I want to dump/patch/reflash, I'll need something that can talk swim, can the onboard st-link on the stm32-disco boards do that?
2020-08-10T14:38:21 < jpa-> zyp: no
2020-08-10T14:39:09 < zyp> assuming I don't have a standalone st-link and don't want to buy one, what's the easiest way to hack up something that can talk swim?
2020-08-10T14:40:46 < jpa-> https://stm32duinoforum.com/forum/download/file_id_2307.png   you might be able to solder the wires & extra parts needed to add the swim interface to st-link on discovery
2020-08-10T14:41:58 < zyp> that's the worst schematic I've seen in a while
2020-08-10T14:44:31 < jpa-> apparently openocd supports swim also, so you might be able to use some usb-serial as a slow bitbanger
2020-08-10T14:45:15 < zyp> I've got a ft232h
2020-08-10T14:45:24 < zyp> does it need any resistor tricks?
2020-08-10T14:46:39 < zyp> maybe PaulFertser would know
2020-08-10T14:46:47 < jpa-> hmm no, looks like openocd only supports swim through stlink
2020-08-10T14:47:29 < zyp> suspected that might be the case
2020-08-10T14:47:36 < karlp> so.. ts_test from ts_lib works nicely. can draw with the stylus.
2020-08-10T14:48:05 < karlp> pygame events using SDL_MOUSEDRV = TSLIB are .... absolutely unusable trashy garbage
2020-08-10T14:48:10 < jpa-> if you have a bluepill, it's probably easy enough to solder up the three resistors needed and flash stlink firmware on it
2020-08-10T14:49:19 < zyp> yeah, except I don't :)
2020-08-10T14:51:11 < jpa-> http://kuku.eu.org/?projects/stm8spi/stm8spi   maybe this would work?
2020-08-10T14:51:51 < jpa-> if you have some linux board with /dev/spidev available
2020-08-10T14:57:08 < zyp> bunch of rpis everywhere
2020-08-10T14:58:13 < zyp> but apparently we found somebody with a stlink we can borrow
2020-08-10T15:02:45 < Steffanx> Really that its done like that jpa- 
2020-08-10T15:03:58 < zyp> so, next question, assuming I can dump the firmware, is the stm8 instruction set supported by any reverse engineering tools? :p
2020-08-10T15:15:34 < jpa-> zyp: there is stm8 binutils AFAIK
2020-08-10T15:15:39 < jpa-> so objdump should work atleast
2020-08-10T15:16:24 < zyp> I found naken_asm for asm/disasm
2020-08-10T15:18:44 < jpa-> will you use it naked?
2020-08-10T15:19:06 < zyp> naturally
2020-08-10T15:19:27 < jpa-> brb, i've got a pull request to make.. hmm, what's the best webcam api on linux nowadays?
2020-08-10T15:25:12 < PaulFertser> zyp: ft232h works nicely (full speed) as swd adapter.
2020-08-10T15:25:32 < jpa-> but swim?
2020-08-10T15:25:34 < zyp> we're talking about stm8 and swim, not swd
2020-08-10T15:25:34 < PaulFertser> zyp: and with openocd from master (not old 0.10.0 version) you can just short-circuit TDO and TDI.
2020-08-10T15:25:51 < PaulFertser> zyp: oh, sorry, no support for doing swim with anything but stlink.
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2020-08-10T16:24:54 < zyp> we managed to dump it just fine with one of those chinaclone stlink dongles
2020-08-10T16:29:10 < Steffanx> Such hacking.
2020-08-10T16:29:44 < Steffanx> Didnt you have a stm8 discovery zyp?
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2020-08-10T16:38:51 < zyp> or maybe we didn't, dump is all 0x71
2020-08-10T16:39:35 < zyp> not sure if we fucked up or if that's what happens when ROP is enabled
2020-08-10T16:55:49 < Steffanx> .
2020-08-10T16:55:58 < Steffanx> Let the voltage glitching begin?
2020-08-10T17:00:37 < zyp> dunno if it's that interesting
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2020-08-10T17:02:43 < rapha> zyp: trying to change the LED_Init macro into a static function, but ofc static void LED_Init(int *port, int *pin) won't work because neither GPIOA nor GPIO_PIN_15 are ints - but where do I find the information _what_ they are?
2020-08-10T17:03:05 < zyp> rapha, idk what you're talking about
2020-08-10T17:03:18 < rapha> oops
2020-08-10T17:03:26 < rapha> so many three letter nicks, my apologies zyp 
2020-08-10T17:03:39 < rapha> qyx: trying to change the LED_Init macro into a static function, but ofc static void LED_Init(int *port, int *pin) won't work because neither GPIOA nor GPIO_PIN_15 are ints - but where do I find the information _what_ they are?
2020-08-10T17:05:49 < zyp> hmm
2020-08-10T17:06:00 < Steffanx> People have done it for stm8s,  but.. idk if its interesting;)
2020-08-10T17:06:13 < zyp> we tried to read out the option bytes to check ROP, it also came out as all 0x71
2020-08-10T17:06:13 < karlp> rapha: you're missing something more fundamental
2020-08-10T17:06:22 < zyp> so apparently the problem is elsewhere
2020-08-10T17:06:37 < Steffanx> Time to buy a 20 euro stlink from Farnell?
2020-08-10T17:06:50 < Steffanx> To rule out China issues?
2020-08-10T17:06:56 < zyp> hmm, not convinced
2020-08-10T17:10:33 < Cracki> rapha, the PIN stuff is an int, but it's not a const or variable but a define. your use of a pointer for that part is ill advised
2020-08-10T17:11:08 < Cracki> the port define can be found... if you use an editor/ide that lets you "dive into" an identifier to its definition
2020-08-10T17:11:45 < Steffanx> Zyp: https://community.st.com/s/question/0D50X00009XkhWx/swim-deviceid-read-rop-checkmethod surprisingly also 0x71?
2020-08-10T17:12:30 < zyp> yeah, probably something else fucked up
2020-08-10T17:12:34 < PaulFertser> Was about to post that link
2020-08-10T17:14:20 < Steffanx> Sure? This person concludes be cannot even read the option bytes when ROP is enabled
2020-08-10T17:14:20 < zyp> ah, that's interesting
2020-08-10T17:14:25 < ColdKeyboard> If you use I2C/SMBus on a STM micro that already has I2C hardware. Is there any licensing or certification that needs to happen if your device is a I2C slave and you are using self assigned I2C addres. But this would be a enclosed system (ie. It's not a sensor or a piece of hardware that you would then connect with other I2C devices)
2020-08-10T17:14:36 < Steffanx> Be=he
2020-08-10T17:15:35 < Cracki> ColdKeyboard, IOW it's a Black Box? then who cares as long as it meets EMI and whatever else affects the environment
2020-08-10T17:16:00 < Cracki> most people wouldn't think to worry about this
2020-08-10T17:16:15 < Cracki> the space of i2c addresses is too small to fight over
2020-08-10T17:16:51 < Cracki> I'd consult the i2c spec for any hint of "allocation authority"
2020-08-10T17:17:18 < Cracki> and it seems something like that exists... but as long as it's a black box, I wouldn't worry
2020-08-10T17:18:10 < ColdKeyboard> Ok. I know NXP requires licensing fee if you want to get I2C slave address that is assigned/registered to your device, but I'm curious if it's a black box, does anyone care or does that same rule apply.
2020-08-10T17:18:50 < ColdKeyboard> My guess is also that nobody cares as long as it's blax box and passes other certifications but curious if anyone had experience with this
2020-08-10T17:19:37 < Cracki> looks like the "allocation" is for special functions, and most of the space is not allocated? I haven't found specific info on this yet
2020-08-10T17:20:01 < Cracki> random site that certainly doesn't sound authoritative https://i2c.info/i2c-bus-specification
2020-08-10T17:23:34 < Cracki> best I found so far http://dlnware.com/theory/I2C-Address-Allocation-Table
2020-08-10T17:24:16 < Cracki> since this looks full I guess nobody gives a fuck
2020-08-10T17:27:44 < rapha> Cracki: i tried with "int" first, then got the compiler error that I can't mix pointer and non-pointer. When LED_Init() was a macro, it was easy - just the names, no types. But now ofc it wants the types and it wants the correct ones.
2020-08-10T17:28:27 < ColdKeyboard> Yeah I had same thought... You can have 128 address, some of them are reserved so I don't think enforcing unique address for each device becomes impossible with 8-bit addressing
2020-08-10T17:28:32 < Cracki> example: the max44009 has address 1001 10y, with y configurable, and that's right on top of nothing "allocated to" maxim
2020-08-10T17:28:59 < Cracki> rapha, no trying. "go to definition"
2020-08-10T17:29:00 < rapha> Cracki: if i keep pin an int and make port an *int, it says: "led_builtin.h:11:12: warning: comparison of distinct pointer types lacks a cast".
2020-08-10T17:29:11 < Cracki> well sure
2020-08-10T17:29:15 < rapha> Cracki: but where _is_ the damn definition of it?
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2020-08-10T17:29:27 < Cracki> you have a project built with cubemx
2020-08-10T17:29:39 < Cracki> what do you use to edit this code, truestudio/cubeide?
2020-08-10T17:30:18 < rapha> VSCode's PlatformIO plugin.
2020-08-10T17:30:30 < rapha> ack "#define GPIOA" /home/jrs/.platformio/packages/framework-stm32cube/f0/Drivers/STM32F0xx_HAL_Driver/Inc comes back empty.
2020-08-10T17:30:36 < Cracki> wat
2020-08-10T17:30:50 < Cracki> does it build at all
2020-08-10T17:30:58 < Cracki> just making sure the includes exist
2020-08-10T17:31:21 < rapha> It built fine before I began trying to convert the macro into a function.
2020-08-10T17:31:38 < rapha> stm32f0xx_hal.h exists and is being found, if that's the include you mean?
2020-08-10T17:31:45 < Cracki> type GPIO_PIN_15 anywhere in your source. try ctrl-clicking on this identifier. if that doesn't work, right-click on it, look for any menu item that says "... definition"
2020-08-10T17:32:00 < effractur> rapha: source?
2020-08-10T17:32:03 < Cracki> same with the GPIO port identifier
2020-08-10T17:32:06 < effractur> the macro was in the .h file right?
2020-08-10T17:32:09 < rapha> oh! cool, I didn't know about the Ctrl-Click thing!!!
2020-08-10T17:32:11 < effractur> and the fucntion in de .c?
2020-08-10T17:32:20 < rapha> effractur: no, static function; also .h.
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2020-08-10T17:32:36 < Cracki> ok, so someone should have observed you computering and pointed out that you can ctrl-click on things
2020-08-10T17:32:39 < rapha> aha, GPIO_TypeDef*
2020-08-10T17:32:53 < rapha> Well, yeah, that's difficult via IRC, Cracki.
2020-08-10T17:32:54 < Cracki> ctrl-click on GPIO_TypeDef
2020-08-10T17:33:02 < Cracki> twitch plays rapha
2020-08-10T17:33:06 < rapha> lol
2020-08-10T17:33:10 < rapha> but not _this_ rapha ;)
2020-08-10T17:34:51 < rapha> effractur: qyx: what do you both thing now? https://gist.github.com/sixtyfive/0f23316b44d1b22351583fd8cdf97c1b
2020-08-10T17:36:06 < Cracki> line 14 will never run because that case is handled by L11 already
2020-08-10T17:36:20 < Cracki> but otherwise, sure have fun
2020-08-10T17:36:46 < Cracki> maybe make sure it's safe to run __HAL_RCC_GPIOA_CLK_ENABLE multiple times
2020-08-10T17:37:10 < Cracki> i.e. dive into it, see what it does
2020-08-10T17:38:23 < Cracki> it's a "multiline" macro setting one bit that has no funky semantics to it. that looks safe.
2020-08-10T17:39:13 < rapha> whoops
2020-08-10T17:39:16 < rapha> that's a typo
2020-08-10T17:39:22 < rapha> line 13 should say GPIOB
2020-08-10T17:43:27 < rapha> Cracki: as for https://gist.github.com/sixtyfive/0f23316b44d1b22351583fd8cdf97c1b#file-pwm-h-L2-L6 … what the Arduino ppl are doing there is quite convoluted because they try to be everything to every IC. But the combo of F042 datasheet && refman && HAL user manual are also quite the bunch. Is there an easier way, perhaps a succint example (googled fruitlessly thus far) showing how to do something like
2020-08-10T17:43:29 < rapha> setting some pin to 50% dutycycle at xy frequency or something somewhere?
2020-08-10T17:44:17 < Cracki> uh, first, set up everything in cubemx
2020-08-10T17:44:32 < Cracki> menu > reading datasheets
2020-08-10T17:44:39 < Cracki> then...
2020-08-10T17:45:38 < Cracki> TIM2->CCR1 = value to set duty cycle
2020-08-10T17:45:43 < rapha> Ouch. So will have to install CubeMX afterall. I take it the have a code generator for that?
2020-08-10T17:45:46 < Cracki> TIM2->ARR is the timer period
2020-08-10T17:46:00 < Cracki> CCR = 0 is flat low, CCR = ARR+1 is flat high
2020-08-10T17:46:56 < Cracki> CCR=1 or CCR=ARR is one cycle one level, rest of the cycles another level
2020-08-10T17:47:03 < Cracki> wait what
2020-08-10T17:47:10 < Cracki> well you can _not_ use cubemx
2020-08-10T17:47:28 < Cracki> then you'd have to use halF0 (you have an F0?) docs
2020-08-10T17:48:25 < Cracki> I have an stm32f3, so adapt what I'm saying
2020-08-10T17:49:09 < Cracki> cubemx generated a MX_TIM2_Init() for me. it contains calls to HAL_TIM_PWM_Init, HAL_TIMEx_MasterConfigSynchronization (not sure if needed), a bunch of HAL_TIM_PWM_ConfigChannel, and a HAL_TIM_MspPostInit
2020-08-10T17:49:44 < rapha> ah, okay, so ppl _do_ use CodeMX so that they have code generators and that's how they learn
2020-08-10T17:49:56 < Cracki> HAL_TIM_MspPostInit(TIM_HandleTypeDef* timHandle) does __HAL_RCC_GPIOA_CLK_ENABLE followed by HAL_GPIO_Init (with a structure that has Mode = ...AF_PP)
2020-08-10T17:50:07 < rapha> I also have an f1, f3 and f4 lying around aside from the f0 ... plus some stm8s
2020-08-10T17:50:18 < Cracki> well yes I use cubemx. I can't be arsed to come up with all that code on my own. it's just convenient.
2020-08-10T17:50:35 < karlp> (it's not a matter of opinion, multiline macros for hw init are _always_ wrong)
2020-08-10T17:50:39 < Cracki> if hal docs were better I'd be less inclined to use cubemx as a crutch
2020-08-10T17:50:55 < karlp> line 19 is wrong, fwiw.
2020-08-10T17:51:11 < karlp> (of led_builtin.h)
2020-08-10T17:51:44 < karlp> also, your static function in the header will be duplicated into every c file you ever put it in, so that's kinda wasteful.
2020-08-10T17:51:55 < rapha> karlp: i added a three-line comment, so i think you mean   GPIO_InitStruct.Pin   = pin; ?
2020-08-10T17:52:25 < rapha> karlp: not intending to include it in many files, though.
2020-08-10T17:52:27 < karlp> in the current version of the gist. read line 19 of led_builtin.h
2020-08-10T17:52:32 < karlp> rapha:not _today_
2020-08-10T17:52:50 < rapha> argl, another typo
2020-08-10T17:52:52 < rapha> thanks
2020-08-10T17:53:32 < rapha> (trying to learn by reading and compiling things while sitting on a Tram station bench rn ... having the h/w next to me is still too confusing atm)
2020-08-10T17:53:54 < rapha> well
2020-08-10T17:54:00 < rapha> sad about the CubeMX thing
2020-08-10T17:54:11 < rapha> but if that's how it is ... i guess i will actually try to get it to work somehow
2020-08-10T17:54:20 < rapha> perhaps on the gaming PC … only windows machine in the house
2020-08-10T17:54:35 < Cracki> you can learn from examples that come with the hal source
2020-08-10T17:54:53 < Cracki> or read the docs very throughly and hope they connect all the dots
2020-08-10T17:55:07 < Cracki> you don't need windows of course
2020-08-10T17:55:11 < rapha> oh okay
2020-08-10T17:55:36 < rapha> hah, i do need to register though
2020-08-10T17:55:40 < rapha> okay, this is for the evening
2020-08-10T17:55:48 < Cracki> yes for the download they want to know who you are, but that's all
2020-08-10T17:55:51 < rapha> sun shifted and is burning me up rn … no more shade on the bench
2020-08-10T17:56:13 < Cracki> does the GDR have hydrants? take a wrench to one
2020-08-10T17:56:17 < rapha> lol
2020-08-10T17:56:24 < rapha> haven't seen a hydrant in a long time
2020-08-10T17:56:25 < Cracki> or do you sit in the western part of berlin
2020-08-10T17:56:28 < rapha> certainly got no wrench with me
2020-08-10T17:56:40 < rapha> nono, actually sitting in the east of the east, that is, east of Leipzig
2020-08-10T17:56:52 < Cracki> find the water tower for trains, stand under it, and make train noises
2020-08-10T17:57:00 < rapha> Straßenbahnhof Paunsdorf if you want to check … kind of like it here, because there's a bit of grreen
2020-08-10T17:57:03 < rapha> rofl
2020-08-10T17:57:13 < rapha> that'd be awesome if they still had those
2020-08-10T17:57:16 < rapha> laters now!
2020-08-10T17:57:19 < rapha>  o/
2020-08-10T17:57:21 < Cracki> I hear the south of leipzig is a riot
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2020-08-10T19:47:20 < Cracki> now playing: Rod Stewart - I Am Melting
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2020-08-10T20:05:29 < rapha> lol
2020-08-10T20:05:38 < rapha> yes, it basically /is/ a riot
2020-08-10T20:06:18 < rapha> at the same time, unless you're wearing a police uniform, it's also an incredibly chill and green neighbourhood
2020-08-10T20:06:23 < rapha> similar with the east
2020-08-10T20:06:36 < rapha> sometimes i really wonder what shit the media are smoking
2020-08-10T20:06:48 < rapha> probably just confirmation bias weed tho...
2020-08-10T20:07:16 < qyx> rapha: thats the catch, it is good to see all headers the module (.c) requires
2020-08-10T20:07:40 < qyx> in this case it should be in the .h file you are including in main.h
2020-08-10T20:07:49 < qyx> of course you have to use the right type
2020-08-10T20:08:54 < qyx> also, in header files there should be nothing defined, only declarations
2020-08-10T20:09:27 < Cracki> I'd say #define counts as define :P
2020-08-10T20:10:15 < Cracki> tho "define" means function bodies, variable definitions (i.e. actual storage allocation) vs. a bunch of externs
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2020-08-10T21:53:39 < rapha> hmm
2020-08-10T21:53:52 < rapha> (will look at the test sketch again later)
2020-08-10T21:53:58 < rapha> just soldered the board
2020-08-10T21:54:23 < rapha> the LED i put on PA15 lit up dimly when i powered it up 
2020-08-10T21:54:39 < rapha> "could be" or "well, yeah, your F042 is bust now"?
2020-08-10T21:55:07 < rapha> (why dimly? why not either on or off?)
2020-08-10T21:57:37 < rapha> pulling 20mA ... power LED, dimly lit PA15 LED and whatever on the IC
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2020-08-10T21:57:52 < kakinull> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bj-AE5cEaVo Steffanx
2020-08-10T22:04:06 < qyx> rapha: can you show your sch?
2020-08-10T22:27:34 < rapha> qyx: sure! https://cloud.weitnahbei.de/index.php/s/N4J9FZWSeoxDprw
2020-08-10T22:30:01 < qyx> whats the colour of the led?
2020-08-10T22:30:11 < qyx> and whats your VDD?
2020-08-10T22:30:31 < rapha> VDD is 3v3 and the LD is green with a 430R on it
2020-08-10T22:30:51 < rapha> (not the 680 that's given in the schematic)
2020-08-10T22:30:59 < qyx> and it is only glowing?
2020-08-10T22:31:04 < rapha> yes, dimly
2020-08-10T22:31:16 < rapha> dimmer than when i put the multimeter's diode tester to it, in fact
2020-08-10T22:31:33 < rapha> i think i might have shot that pin when i put 3v3 on it after soldering LED and resistor
2020-08-10T22:31:34 < qyx> can you check the current throught the LED?
2020-08-10T22:31:46 < rapha> hmm not without desoldering stuff ... wait
2020-08-10T22:32:10 < qyx> you can measure voltage drop on the resistor
2020-08-10T22:32:16 < rapha> oh
2020-08-10T22:32:18 < rapha> right
2020-08-10T22:32:18 < qyx> nd calculate the current
2020-08-10T22:32:52 < rapha> can't ever have too many multimeres
2020-08-10T22:32:56  * rapha gets #3
2020-08-10T22:32:56 < qyx> (to know if it is the gpio causing issues unable to source enough current or the LED itself)
2020-08-10T22:33:44 < rapha> weird
2020-08-10T22:33:57 < rapha> gnd to 1 side of the R is 0mV, to the other side 7.8mV
2020-08-10T22:34:29 < rapha> and the pin is at 2V13
2020-08-10T22:34:37 < rapha> *scratches head*
2020-08-10T22:34:41 < qyx> thats not good
2020-08-10T22:35:04 < qyx> or your pin is configured as input, pullup enabled
2020-08-10T22:35:09 < qyx> which is around 50K iirc
2020-08-10T22:35:16 < rapha> hmm
2020-08-10T22:35:19 < rapha> fresh IC
2020-08-10T22:35:23 < rapha> is that possible?
2020-08-10T22:35:30 < qyx> it depends on the code
2020-08-10T22:35:35 < qyx> not IC freshness
2020-08-10T22:35:40 < rapha> no code
2020-08-10T22:35:44 < rapha> is what i mean by fresh
2020-08-10T22:35:49 < rapha> fresh from the factory
2020-08-10T22:36:50 < kakinull> wtf
2020-08-10T22:37:00 < kakinull> I ddrescue my sata ssd to nvme ssd
2020-08-10T22:37:01 < qyx> which exact variant of the F042 do you have?
2020-08-10T22:37:14 < kakinull> but it doesn't stick
2020-08-10T22:37:25 < kakinull> it says unallocated space
2020-08-10T22:37:29 < rapha> fwiw, measured some other pins, all at 0V
2020-08-10T22:37:35 < rapha> qyx: F042K6T6 
2020-08-10T22:37:49 < rapha> in 32pin TQFP
2020-08-10T22:38:18 < rapha> grah and now gf calling in stern voice for me to come home
2020-08-10T22:39:14 < qyx> why is your boot0 floating?
2020-08-10T22:39:37 < qyx> it may be the case your stm is in the bootloader mode
2020-08-10T22:39:56 < rapha> qyx: huh? PB8 is GND'd via 10k
2020-08-10T22:40:11 < rapha> (the TQFP doesn't have a dedicated BOOTP pin)
2020-08-10T22:40:16 < rapha> boot0*
2020-08-10T22:40:25 < qyx> wnad thats PF11-BOOT0
2020-08-10T22:40:35 < rapha> sorry; the TQFP-32
2020-08-10T22:40:35 < qyx> you confused me
2020-08-10T22:40:38 < rapha> the -48 does have
2020-08-10T22:40:55 < rapha> yup
2020-08-10T22:41:43 < qyx> which different parts
2020-08-10T22:41:59 < qyx> TQFP32 has boot0 on PF11
2020-08-10T22:42:12 < qyx> ie. pin 31
2020-08-10T22:42:24 < qyx> wait what
2020-08-10T22:42:28 < qyx> fuk
2020-08-10T22:52:05 < qyx> you are right
2020-08-10T22:52:47 < rapha> :)
2020-08-10T22:52:58 < rapha> at least once per day i strive to be :P
2020-08-10T22:55:01 < rapha> okay, finally got the programming stuff downloaded ... "Error: No STM32 target found!" :(
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2020-08-10T22:56:55 < rapha> funny enough, when i connect the reset pin, too, that message comes only once, and before it there is "An error occurred while uploading the sketch". without rst connected, it comes twice.
2020-08-10T22:57:48 < rapha> even if PB15 was fried from connecting it to 3V3 to test the LED was soldered correctly, is it likely that fried the rest of the IC, too?
2020-08-10T22:57:49 < Cracki> 430 ohm eh
2020-08-10T22:57:53 < rapha> Cracki: yes
2020-08-10T22:57:59 < Cracki> (3.3 - ~2.0) / 430 ohm = how many microamps?
2020-08-10T22:58:07 < Cracki> assuming ~2 v diode voltage
2020-08-10T22:58:08 < rapha> tried with100 ohm first and got my retina half burnt out
2020-08-10T22:58:27 < Cracki> 100 ohm would be 13 mA
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2020-08-10T22:58:48 < rapha> i think the LED can handle 20 or so
2020-08-10T22:59:37 < Cracki> it's a good idea to use the pin to pull down, i.e. led connected to supply on one leg
2020-08-10T23:00:18 < Cracki> gpios can have equal drive strength but some have better drive strength to ground
2020-08-10T23:00:38 < rapha> okay, will change that in the schematic for next rev
2020-08-10T23:01:01 < Cracki> as for pullups, those are only relevant when the pin isn't driven
2020-08-10T23:01:03 < rapha> already back on the tram station, w/o soldering iron
2020-08-10T23:01:40 < rapha> to answer your question, it'd be ~2mA
2020-08-10T23:01:50 < Cracki> as for cubemx, you can use that standalone, keep using vscode
2020-08-10T23:02:00 < rapha> but my concern is that the stlink doesn't want to see the mcu
2020-08-10T23:03:08 < rapha> (stm32CubeProg.sh 0 /tmp/arduino_build_962958/sketch_aug10a.ino.bin)
2020-08-10T23:03:44 < rapha> oh wait, the demo board might not be on 8MHz
2020-08-10T23:03:53 < rapha> i have no external xtal so i should be on 8
2020-08-10T23:03:56 < Cracki> run that thing as a gui, play with the buttons and jiggle the jumper wires until it works https://www.st.com/en/development-tools/stm32cubeprog.html
2020-08-10T23:04:19 < Cracki> what's the demo board, what wires are connected
2020-08-10T23:04:37 < rapha> Cracki: my own design: https://cloud.weitnahbei.de/index.php/s/N4J9FZWSeoxDprw
2020-08-10T23:04:58 < rapha> and SWD ... not sure if boot0 should be anything other than permanently LOW?
2020-08-10T23:05:30 < Cracki> it's ok to be permanently something. what it should be says the RM
2020-08-10T23:06:22 < Cracki> my god the st website is getting ever more awful
2020-08-10T23:06:48 < Cracki> boot0 low
2020-08-10T23:06:55 < Cracki> for booting flash
2020-08-10T23:07:48 < Cracki> if you feel like using its rom bootloaders (it likely has one that does uart, maybe one that does usb, no clue), or "booting from" sram, it'd be high
2020-08-10T23:07:50 < rapha> yes, table 3, boot modes, top row
2020-08-10T23:08:37 < Cracki> RM talks about BOOT_SEL bit (and BOOT0 bit), which can be programmed if the boot0 pin needs to be ignored
2020-08-10T23:08:56 < rapha> but the IC has never been programmed; fresh out the factory
2020-08-10T23:09:03 < Cracki> that shouldn't affect SWD connections
2020-08-10T23:09:08 < rapha> nrst to gnd via 100n
2020-08-10T23:09:12 < Cracki> uh
2020-08-10T23:09:19 < Cracki> that's keeping it in reset
2020-08-10T23:09:41 < Cracki> wait, 100 nF? ok
2020-08-10T23:10:32 < rapha> (taken from the hardware development getting-started guide)
2020-08-10T23:10:44 < rapha> yes, C, not R
2020-08-10T23:11:19 < Cracki> I tend to interpret unitless numbers, in electronics, as ohms and I think I'm not the only one
2020-08-10T23:11:33 < Cracki> 100n looked like 100k
2020-08-10T23:11:36 < rapha> oh
2020-08-10T23:11:48 < rapha> nano-ohm is a thing when talking about reset pins?
2020-08-10T23:12:05 < Cracki> 10 megasiemens
2020-08-10T23:12:16 < Cracki> not a common quantity
2020-08-10T23:12:16 < rapha> :)
2020-08-10T23:12:58 < rapha> was working with ESR mat and wristband all the time, so not that, either
2020-08-10T23:14:29 < Cracki> why is PB8 also labeled boot0?
2020-08-10T23:14:49 < Cracki> if I had to guess i'd say PF11 is the boot0 of interest
2020-08-10T23:15:29 < rapha> Cracki: the TQFP32 doesn't have a PF11 and PB8 doubles as boot0
2020-08-10T23:15:36 < Cracki> ah wonderful
2020-08-10T23:16:48 < rapha> well, i wanted small, i got small :P
2020-08-10T23:17:11 < rapha> ur, sorry, it's called *L*QFP
2020-08-10T23:17:36 < rapha> fig. 6 of the datasheet
2020-08-10T23:18:07 < rapha> waaaaitasec
2020-08-10T23:18:20 < rapha> pin *1* is marked by a dot on the package, correct, Cracki?
2020-08-10T23:19:07 < rapha> and then from that dot, the counting goes counter clockwise, as can be seen in that figure
2020-08-10T23:20:05 < rapha> hmm ... no ... all correct
2020-08-10T23:21:23 < rapha> one thing that could be ... i think R4 might be soldered in such a way as to permanently connect PB8/BOOT0 directly to GND accidentally. but then that wouldn't matter either.
2020-08-10T23:22:01 < rapha> funny thing ... might have to solder another one, perhaps go with the oven instead of the iron
2020-08-10T23:26:51 < Cracki> oder some stm32f303cc board from aliexpress maybe
2020-08-10T23:27:03 < Cracki> they don't even take too long
2020-08-10T23:27:13 < Cracki> or some disco/nucleo from europe
2020-08-10T23:27:35 < Cracki> I guess you'd already have some premade board(s)
2020-08-10T23:36:31 < rapha> i have those ... f103 blue pill, then another one with f303 soldered on, and also a bigger f407 board
2020-08-10T23:36:33 < rapha> all working
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2020-08-10T23:57:32 < rapha> wait ... 303cc ... let me check that one out
2020-08-10T23:58:44 < rapha> hmm, funky, no single 303cc showing up. it's offering me 401, h750 (?) and such
--- Day changed Tue Aug 11 2020
2020-08-11T00:00:29  * rapha is feeling a little sad about his first diy board not working :'(
2020-08-11T00:03:01 < qyx> rapha: so 7mV across the resistor?
2020-08-11T00:03:27 < rapha> such a cute board, too https://i.imgur.com/yYHyrdb.jpg
2020-08-11T00:03:33 < rapha> qyx: yes, a tad shy of 8
2020-08-11T00:03:59 < qyx> thats 16 microamps
2020-08-11T00:04:13 < rapha> that's very little ... it's impressive the led is so visibly lit 
2020-08-11T00:04:30 < rapha> what was the formula you used for that btw, qyx?
2020-08-11T00:04:44 < qyx> I=U/R
2020-08-11T00:04:55 < rapha> oh, okay
2020-08-11T00:05:16 < rapha> so my own attempt was correct, i just didn't know how to convert the zeros into a word
2020-08-11T00:10:46 < rapha> openocd's complaint is "unable to reset target"
2020-08-11T00:13:52 < mawk> you're using stlink ?
2020-08-11T00:14:30 < rapha> v2 from china, yes, mawk 
2020-08-11T00:17:08 < mawk> is there a NRST pin on that thing ?
2020-08-11T00:17:11 < mawk> that you could connect
2020-08-11T00:17:32 < mawk> otherwise tie BOOT0 up to boot in the ST bootloader and then SWD will be available, maybe it's that your current firmware didn't enable SWD
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2020-08-11T00:18:37 < rapha> well, there's a "RST" pin
2020-08-11T00:18:50 < rapha> not sure what the N stands for and if that's a different thing then
2020-08-11T00:19:02 < qyx> N is active low
2020-08-11T00:19:08 < qyx> it is the right thing
2020-08-11T00:19:10 < rapha> ah
2020-08-11T00:19:22 < rapha> mawk: also, no firmware on it yet
2020-08-11T00:19:46 < rapha> waaaaaaait the very first time around you _have_ to use the internal bootloader before you can get SWD?
2020-08-11T00:19:53 < qyx> no
2020-08-11T00:19:58 < rapha> :(
2020-08-11T00:20:51 < rapha> mawk: fwiw, rst pin connected or not makes no differencre
2020-08-11T00:21:05 < mawk> then you need to type some openocd magic to tell it to issue RST rapha 
2020-08-11T00:21:10 < mawk> I forgot the command but maybe PaulFertser knows
2020-08-11T00:22:11 < PaulFertser> rapha: reset_config srst_only
2020-08-11T00:22:39  * rapha tries
2020-08-11T00:22:41 < PaulFertser> rapha: makes OpenOCD use SRST line whenever appropriate. And if you add to that connect_assert_srst, it'll be pulling it low before connecting.
2020-08-11T00:25:35 < PaulFertser> rapha: with blank stm32 swd is available, no need to use reset line.
2020-08-11T00:25:57 < rapha> first have to find out how to use openocd from the command line at all
2020-08-11T00:26:24 < PaulFertser> There's README and the user manual...
2020-08-11T00:27:06 < rapha> PaulFertser: the board we're talking about is my first DIY board, https://i.imgur.com/7zsfG7P.png / https://i.imgur.com/yYHyrdb.jpg ... seems something's not right with it.
2020-08-11T00:27:31 < rapha> (yes, already reading the readme)
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2020-08-11T00:28:13 < PaulFertser> rapha: usually to be able to connect to stm32 it's enough to connect power (including AVCC) and SWD lines.
2020-08-11T00:29:12 < PaulFertser> rapha: LED2 has wrong polarity on schematics ;)
2020-08-11T00:30:13 < rapha> oh dang! thank you! :P
2020-08-11T00:30:51 < rapha> hmm ... it wouldn't hurt the chip if SWCLK and SWDIO were swapped, right?
2020-08-11T00:30:51 < PaulFertser> rapha: have you tried using the same swd adapter with the same wires to connect to another board?
2020-08-11T00:31:01 < rapha> yes, the adapter is known-good with a blue pill
2020-08-11T00:31:03 < PaulFertser> rapha: wouldn't permanently hurt, yes
2020-08-11T00:32:00 < rapha> PaulFertser: the thing we were wondering about, is, why does LED1 glow at <20microAmps
2020-08-11T00:33:42 < rapha> i have a feeling like the chip is fried, it's just, there is no reason why it would be 
2020-08-11T00:33:49  * rapha .oO( scratches head )
2020-08-11T00:35:25 < rapha> PaulFertser: https://gist.github.com/sixtyfive/8d73ac35ec809e2794613ee9448b48aa should work, if it would, right?
2020-08-11T00:38:20 < fluiD> I'm having some sort of clock confusion here. According to the STM32F411 datasheet, TIM2 is on the APB1 bus. According to the clock configuration in stm32cubeide, my APB1 is 48 mhz. Tim2's source is the "internal clock", prescaler set to 48000, so a counter period of 1000 should give me a trigger every second. But I'm getting 2 per second.
2020-08-11T00:38:21 < PaulFertser> rapha: open failed means it can't connect to stlink, probably no permissions or something.
2020-08-11T00:38:59 < rapha> weird ... same thing with sudo
2020-08-11T00:39:12 < fluiD> I'm I misunderstanding the TIM2 source?
2020-08-11T00:39:23 < PaulFertser> rapha: probably yours is not v2-1 ?
2020-08-11T00:39:56 < rapha> PaulFertser: https://gist.github.com/sixtyfive/0edd03e550561c3b0c7b61a5fa667883
2020-08-11T00:40:56 < PaulFertser> rapha: it's stlink-v2.cfg
2020-08-11T00:41:27 < PaulFertser> (current unreleased version autodetects all stlinks with a single config but you're using the latest old release)
2020-08-11T00:41:37 < zyp> fluiD, some timers on some parts are sourced at twice the bus clock for some configurations
2020-08-11T00:41:56 < fluiD> zyp, how would I go about verifying that?
2020-08-11T00:42:16 < zyp> should be listed in the RM, what's the relevant RM number for that part?
2020-08-11T00:42:30 < rapha> PaulFertser: oh! this looks somewhat hope-inducing! https://gist.github.com/sixtyfive/1091e08484b63a9595c846c6ae4c7e07
2020-08-11T00:42:35 < fluiD> zyp, what's an RM?
2020-08-11T00:42:52 < zyp> reference manual, RM0383 in your case
2020-08-11T00:42:58 < PaulFertser> rapha: looks fully normal
2020-08-11T00:43:04 < fluiD> ah, yes, I have RM0383 open
2020-08-11T00:43:05  * rapha install gdb
2020-08-11T00:43:37 < PaulFertser> rapha: btw, you do not need to be in any specific directory to start openocd like that
2020-08-11T00:43:58 < zyp> fluiD, do you have rev3? if so, look at page 93
2020-08-11T00:44:28 < rapha> PaulFertser: https://gist.github.com/sixtyfive/1091e08484b63a9595c846c6ae4c7e07 ... is that just because there's no program on it?
2020-08-11T00:44:50 < fluiD> zyp, ARGH! It's the timer APB1. Ok, that makes sense now. Thank you very much.
2020-08-11T00:44:51 < zyp> fluiD, there's an output named «APBx timer clocks», block feeding that says 1x if APBx prescaler = 1, else 2x»
2020-08-11T00:45:47 < zyp> i.e. timer will run at twice the bus speed if bus is not running at full SYSCLK rate
2020-08-11T00:46:50 < zyp> this is not true for all parts, so you'll always want to confirm what clock is feeding your timer when you're attempting to use it on a new family
2020-08-11T00:46:58 < fluiD> Hmm.. so I set prescaler to 48000, period to 1000, and clock division to DIV2 and it's still going twice per second
2020-08-11T00:47:15 < zyp> what DIV2?
2020-08-11T00:47:23 < fluiD>   htim2.Init.ClockDivision = TIM_CLOCKDIVISION_DIV2;
2020-08-11T00:47:36 < rapha> PaulFertser: okay, with a udev rule file for openocd, it's now also working as non-root. program upload via VSCode still failing though.
2020-08-11T00:47:45 < zyp> fluiD, hang on, let me look up what that does
2020-08-11T00:48:31 < zyp> ah, probably CR1.CKD
2020-08-11T00:48:44 < zyp> page 352
2020-08-11T00:49:08 < zyp> I think that just affects the digital filters
2020-08-11T00:49:09 < PaulFertser> rapha: are you running gdb and not multiarch-gdb?
2020-08-11T00:49:10 < fluiD> ah, it's just used by filters
2020-08-11T00:49:53 < fluiD> zyp, ok, thank you again
2020-08-11T00:49:54 < zyp> I don't think the timers have more dividers than PSC and ARR
2020-08-11T00:50:39 < zyp> but TIM2 is 32-bit, so you can set PSC to 96000
2020-08-11T00:50:41 < rapha> PaulFertser: didn't even know the latter existed. this is probably not the right distro for that kind of thing.
2020-08-11T00:50:47 < zyp> or is that only ARR
2020-08-11T00:50:49 < fluiD> Now if I can just stop STM32CubdeIDE from generating broken code whenever it generates
2020-08-11T00:50:52 < PaulFertser> rapha: what distro is it ?
2020-08-11T00:50:58 < fluiD> zyp, 16 bit
2020-08-11T00:51:14 < zyp> ah, right, PSC is only 16-bit even when the timer is 32-bit
2020-08-11T00:51:16 < fluiD> the prescaler is only 16 bit. I doubled the period instead
2020-08-11T00:51:21 < zyp> yeah
2020-08-11T00:51:24 < rapha> PaulFertser: Solus ... very office-and-nontechnical-user-oriented. Trying to keep the desktop with Arch on it shut off because of the heat.
2020-08-11T00:51:53 < PaulFertser> rapha: you probably have arm-none-eabi-gdb from your toolchain, try that instead.
2020-08-11T00:52:06 < PaulFertser> On Debian packagename is gdb-multiarch.
2020-08-11T00:52:35 < zyp> fluiD, as an aside; if you need to run a timer slower than PSC would allow, it's possible to chain multiple timers, to let one timer act as a prescaler for another
2020-08-11T00:52:47 < fluiD> <nod>
2020-08-11T00:54:35 < zyp> I've yet to do anything that requires that though, generally you can just run the timer at N times the resolution instead
2020-08-11T00:56:30 < fluiD> zyp, ok, thanks again!
2020-08-11T00:57:46 < rapha> PaulFertser: okay, what i don't understand: with -c "transport select hla_swd" it connects to the stlink and the target. but then when i add "program {/path/to/elf}", it just says "Error: An adapter speed is not selected in the init script. Insert a call to adapter_khz or jtag_rclk to proceed."?
2020-08-11T00:58:28 < rapha> ah! each -c belongs to the -f it follows!
2020-08-11T00:58:35 < PaulFertser> rapha: you can also flash without gdb at all, using "program" openocd command.
2020-08-11T00:58:49 < karlp> no, the -c are just commands, -f are just lists of commands
2020-08-11T00:58:50 < PaulFertser> rapha: no, -c is separate from -f
2020-08-11T00:58:51 < karlp> there's no pairing
2020-08-11T00:58:56 < rapha> HAH!!!!!
2020-08-11T00:59:00 < rapha> it uploaded!!!!!
2020-08-11T00:59:05  * rapha jumps around happily
2020-08-11T00:59:15 < rapha> and the blink sketch is working!!!! :-D
2020-08-11T00:59:24 < Steffanx> Sketch?
2020-08-11T00:59:30  * rapha takes everyone in the channel by the hand and dances in a circle with them
2020-08-11T00:59:39 < rapha> Steffanx: sorry, Arduino reflexes still strong.
2020-08-11T00:59:46 < Steffanx> Yeah i noticed
2020-08-11T00:59:50 < PaulFertser> Heavy metal fans do not dance
2020-08-11T00:59:56 < rapha> okay then
2020-08-11T01:00:07 < Steffanx> And social distancing mate!!
2020-08-11T01:00:22  * rapha makes everyone in the channel headbang in sync, with proper social distance between them
2020-08-11T01:00:52 < PaulFertser> \m/
2020-08-11T01:01:54 -!- upgrdman [~upgrdman@blender/artist/upgrdman] has quit [Quit: Leaving]
2020-08-11T01:04:18 < rapha> PaulFertser: Steffanx: zyp: Cracki: qyx: karlp: effractur: https://i.imgur.com/TYdXItt.mp4
2020-08-11T01:04:56 < rapha> the green LED's current brightness level should serve as motivation for figuring out PWM now
2020-08-11T01:04:57 < Cracki> congrats
2020-08-11T01:05:01 < rapha> thanks :D
2020-08-11T01:06:14 < karlp> PaulFertser: sure they do!
2020-08-11T01:06:23 < karlp> or do you just call it, "rocking out" instead of dancing?
2020-08-11T01:06:26 < rapha> and still have to figure out why platformio invokes a non-working openocd commandline.
2020-08-11T01:06:32 < Cracki> as for f303cc, not sure where you looked but I have this https://www.aliexpress.com/item/33016045350.html
2020-08-11T01:06:39 < karlp> doesn't pio normally have their own oocd internally?
2020-08-11T01:06:41 < karlp> they used to
2020-08-11T01:07:27 < rapha> Cracki: looks interesting. what is an "embedded trace macrocell"?
2020-08-11T01:07:57 < rapha> karlp: at least the verbose logging looks like it's using the one at /usr/bin
2020-08-11T01:08:17 < karlp> rapha: ETM is part of arm core debug,
2020-08-11T01:09:58 < rapha> oic
2020-08-11T01:10:29 < rapha> wow, ADCs, comparators and opamps galore on that thing
2020-08-11T01:10:44 < rapha> and I2S
2020-08-11T01:10:52 < rapha> Cracki: what do you use that one for?
2020-08-11T01:12:00 < karlp> blinkenleds ;)
2020-08-11T01:12:48 < Cracki> as a more capable replacement for f103 bluepills (maple minis actually). I like the DACs it comes with. also the FPU
2020-08-11T01:13:27 < Cracki> concrete reason for getting it was boss used a 303cb (half the flash) for a project that runs some dumb little control loop
2020-08-11T01:14:04 < karlp> nice,  error ] Docker container build exited with code:  [ 0 ]
2020-08-11T01:14:09 < Cracki> it was an atmega before but stm32 timers can get quadrature input and decode it on their own, which is nice
2020-08-11T01:14:11 < karlp> zero's not meant to be an error duders
2020-08-11T01:16:33 < rapha> i've always wanted to build two little thingies with 3.5mm audio jacks and WiFi on them that can be used to turn any wired pair of headphones into wireless ones via some raw UDP packet sending. sounds like that 303cc might be suitable for such a project if one could find a wifi chip that fits the bill.
2020-08-11T01:32:11 < Cracki> some opus decoding should be running on an stm32 just fine
2020-08-11T01:32:34 < qyx> it is
2020-08-11T01:32:36 < Cracki> the builtin DACs are 12 bits tho
2020-08-11T01:33:08 < Cracki> so separate dac, you mentioned that it has i2s
2020-08-11T01:33:25 < Cracki> or just take an esp32, I hear the can do i2s too
2020-08-11T01:34:51 < Ultrasauce> just sending raw audio frames over wifi wont work well at all
2020-08-11T01:39:26 -!- bvernoux [~Ben@88.120.152.126] has quit [Quit: Leaving]
2020-08-11T01:41:27 < qyx> you can send raw opus frames over wifi
2020-08-11T01:41:31 < qyx> with some buffering
2020-08-11T01:41:34 < qyx> opus can handle that
2020-08-11T01:42:51 < Cracki> there's probably stuff written on opus and packet loss too
2020-08-11T01:43:07 < rapha> Cracki: yes, but i don't like the esps. as for audio DAC and ADC, already have that lying around. the missing piece is the wifi chip.
2020-08-11T01:48:29 < rapha> wait
2020-08-11T01:48:37 < rapha> Cracki, do you work in quantum physics?
2020-08-11T01:48:56 < Cracki> >_> what gave you that impression
2020-08-11T01:49:05 < rapha> quadrature...
2020-08-11T01:49:11 < Cracki> heh no
2020-08-11T01:49:14 < rapha> apparently it's something else, too, then
2020-08-11T01:49:53 < Cracki> quadrature encoders are a type of rotary/linear encoder that uses two tracks, 90 degrees offset, to determine incremental position and direction
2020-08-11T01:50:18 < Cracki> vs. absolute encoders, which encode the position as a gray code of several bits. quadrature and gray code are related
2020-08-11T01:50:31 < Cracki> dude's name was gray
2020-08-11T01:51:25 < rapha> so it has something to do with motors or such?
2020-08-11T01:51:42 < Cracki> dumb dc motors with code wheels and optical pickups are cheap as fuck off aliexpress
2020-08-11T01:52:01 < rapha> ic
2020-08-11T01:52:08 < Cracki> yes, you use them to control the motor's position, speed, w/e
2020-08-11T01:52:16 < Cracki> "servo"
2020-08-11T01:52:21 < rapha> btw, have CubeMX running now ... playing with the Clock Configuration tab
2020-08-11T01:52:34 < Cracki> the shit little "RC servos" use a potentiometer instead
2020-08-11T01:52:45 < Cracki> clock tree is fun eh
2020-08-11T01:52:53 < rapha> oh, but they're surprisingly accurate 
2020-08-11T01:52:57 < rapha> (the RC servos)
2020-08-11T01:53:43 < Cracki> sure but if you need continuous rotation, they don't do
2020-08-11T01:53:48 < rapha> it's ... interesting. but also not sure if i get their UI concept yet. some things can be edited, but then reset themselves when you leave the field.
2020-08-11T01:54:22 < Cracki> such as?
2020-08-11T01:54:55 < rapha> HCLK (MHz) says 8, and underneath, 48 MHz max. so i add a 4 in front, but it's not having any of that and resets it to 8.
2020-08-11T01:55:14 < Cracki> uh, screenshot
2020-08-11T01:55:20 < rapha> sec
2020-08-11T01:55:40 < rapha> https://i.imgur.com/XeDiuOD.png
2020-08-11T01:55:58 < rapha> toward the top right rule-of-thirds intersection
2020-08-11T01:56:17 < Cracki> do you see any "solving" active? that thing has a clock tree 'solver' you don't want interfering
2020-08-11T01:56:35 < Cracki> the blue boxes take values
2020-08-11T01:56:40 < rapha> there's a greyed-out button "Resolve Clock Issues"
2020-08-11T01:56:41 < Cracki> the rest should be all dropdowns or options
2020-08-11T01:56:47 < rapha> and the blue boxes are non-editable
2020-08-11T01:56:56 < Cracki> *headscratch*
2020-08-11T01:57:02 < Cracki> ah right the blue stuff is all fixed
2020-08-11T01:57:08 < Cracki> HSE would be editable if you chose it
2020-08-11T01:57:18 < rapha> i put the PLL Source Mux to HSI48 and PLLMul to x16 but nothing changes
2020-08-11T01:57:30 < Cracki> the black text in white boxes should also be non-editable. the gray text in boxes is _inactive_ values
2020-08-11T01:57:35 < rapha> ah!
2020-08-11T01:57:39 < rapha> this worked!
2020-08-11T01:57:45 < rapha> setting the System Clock Mux to HSI48
2020-08-11T01:57:55 < rapha> now HCLK became 48MHz
2020-08-11T02:00:00 < rapha> toolchain Makefile and application structure Basic seem like sensible choices
2020-08-11T02:00:06 < Cracki> yep
2020-08-11T02:00:35 < Cracki> it's gonna generate madlibs style source. if that's not to your liking, just steal the parts you need from it
2020-08-11T02:02:32 < Cracki> it's also crapping everything full of stm copyright, which is sensible on the templates they bring, and maybe the code they generate, and you should add yourself to the copyright, but I'm not sure if they ought to be kept in the copyright, or if the license should be kept or changed
2020-08-11T02:02:43 < rapha> hmm
2020-08-11T02:02:48 < rapha> just fooling around here
2020-08-11T02:02:58 < rapha> that code is not going to see outside my room
2020-08-11T02:03:44 < rapha> okay, so it seems HAL consists of a bunch of modules and you decide which ones to enable and which ones not
2020-08-11T02:04:15 < rapha> for now i think i only need stm32f0xx_hal_tim.h
2020-08-11T02:07:05 < rapha> it seems the meat is one function, SystemClock_Config, and that'll make it go, like, FAST
2020-08-11T02:07:09  * rapha tries
2020-08-11T02:08:29 < Cracki> I'm glad they redid sonic's face before they released the movie
2020-08-11T02:08:52 < rapha> that was a really weird movie either way
2020-08-11T02:09:04 < rapha> hmm, seems it's running at 48MHz now.
2020-08-11T02:09:21 < rapha> got no scope around, so i'll just have to believe it.
2020-08-11T02:09:31 < Cracki> you can test that
2020-08-11T02:09:35 < rapha> how?
2020-08-11T02:09:48 < Cracki> configure a timer so it's giving you 1/s interrupts
2020-08-11T02:10:10 < Cracki> prescalers/dividers are a lot more flexible than atmegas'
2020-08-11T02:10:28 < rapha> i never did anything outside of Arduino's premade functions
2020-08-11T02:10:30 < Cracki> you could set prescaler 48000, ARR/period 1000 (999)
2020-08-11T02:11:26 < Cracki> HAL_Delay uses the systick, which should be configured (by HAL code itself) to run at millisecond periods
2020-08-11T02:12:24 < rapha> rn it's doing HAL_GPIO_WritePin(LED_PORT, LED_PIN, HIGH), then HAL_Delay for 35, then HAL_GPIO_WritePin(LED_PORT, LED_PIN, LOW), then HAL_Delay for 2200 ... and it feels like that matches with reality's time scale
2020-08-11T02:12:40 < Cracki> 2.235 seconds uh
2020-08-11T02:12:54 < Cracki> your multimeter, can it count pulses (hz)?
2020-08-11T02:13:01 < rapha> well, just to make it look like one of those airplane position lights
2020-08-11T02:13:13 < rapha> yes it can, but all that is back at my little workshop
2020-08-11T02:13:25 < rapha> will take a look tomorrow
2020-08-11T02:13:39 < rapha> for now, more CubeMX discovery clicking 
2020-08-11T02:16:25 < rapha> and you said there are examples somewhere
2020-08-11T02:16:27 < Cracki> that's my timer for pwm output (8 mhz HSE, 72 mhz sysclk) https://imgur.com/rSZxwwk
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2020-08-11T02:16:52 < Cracki> cubemx downloaded cubeF0 for you, and unpacked it somewhere. the settings should tell you where
2020-08-11T02:16:59 < Cracki> that directory contains a bunch of samples
2020-08-11T02:17:33 < rapha> ah, found it!
2020-08-11T02:18:22 < rapha> re your screenshot: so what needs to be done is: you choose a timer, you set it up, and then you can use it to ... apply? ... a duty cycle to a pin?
2020-08-11T02:18:35 < Cracki> yes
2020-08-11T02:18:39 < rapha> okay
2020-08-11T02:19:14 < Cracki> my timer2 is clocked at 72 mhz, so the 2399 means 72 mhz / 2400 is the timer's period (prescaler 1)
2020-08-11T02:19:42 < Cracki> i.e. 30 khz and a range of 0..2400 for channel values
2020-08-11T02:20:08 < Cracki> cubemx will set the pins to "alternate function" (timer) "push pull" (vs. open drain)
2020-08-11T02:20:13 < rapha> ahaaaa ... "range of values" ... that's something i understand :P
2020-08-11T02:20:41 < Cracki> stm32 timer channels are like atmega output compare registers
2020-08-11T02:21:15 < rapha> again, registers ... whole new world, be it atmega or stm devices
2020-08-11T02:22:10 < Cracki> ARR stands for auto reload register, which is a weird term for "timer period"
2020-08-11T02:22:18 < rapha> wow
2020-08-11T02:22:20 < rapha> indeed
2020-08-11T02:22:26 < rapha> might as well be called ARR15
2020-08-11T02:22:49 < Cracki> I have mine up-counting, so it counts from 0..2399, then 0.. 2399 (so a full count from 0..0 is 2400 cycles)
2020-08-11T02:23:34 < Cracki> in downcounting, the "auto-reload" makes sense, it's copying that to the counter value. in up-counting, it's stopping and clearing at that value
2020-08-11T02:25:28 < rapha> hmm so if you want to be able to set a pin to some pwm duty cycle, you have to understand the internals of how that works inside the hardware?
2020-08-11T02:26:15 < Cracki> uh, if you want the timer peripheral to do it, "yes"
2020-08-11T02:26:31 < rapha> wait
2020-08-11T02:26:34 < Cracki> selected pins can be driven by specific timer peripherals
2020-08-11T02:26:36 < rapha> is there another option?
2020-08-11T02:27:00 < Cracki> the other option is "bit banging", i.e. you configure a pin as GPIO output, and from an interrupt or whatever (dma?) you set the pin
2020-08-11T02:27:12 < Cracki> and the interrupt could be coming from the timer, or it's the systick interrupt, or who knows
2020-08-11T02:27:14 < rapha> o_O
2020-08-11T02:28:51 < Cracki> but srsly if there aren't enough timer channels on a chip, you'd just get a chip with more timers
2020-08-11T02:29:02 < rapha> strata: looking forward to it :)
2020-08-11T02:29:03 < Cracki> (timers usually have 4 channels, some have 6)
2020-08-11T02:29:22 < rapha> Cracki: i just need 3 channels, 1 timer. i think even the f042 is overkill.
2020-08-11T02:29:30 < Cracki> best kill
2020-08-11T02:29:44  * rapha just wants to build some kind of analogWrite() for now
2020-08-11T02:30:23 < Cracki> that's libopencm3 there, an alternative to ST's HAL
2020-08-11T02:31:07 < rapha> wow that code is so much cleaner than what CubeMX spits at you
2020-08-11T02:31:26 < Cracki> less madlibs commenting
2020-08-11T02:31:45 < rapha> yes, i've been removing comments left and right, just to get a grip on things
2020-08-11T02:31:51 < Cracki> functionally the same. HAL wants you to fill a structure, then pass it to an init function. this just takes the values as parameters.
2020-08-11T02:32:38 < rapha> his function names alone are making me calm down
2020-08-11T02:33:05 < Cracki> HAL usb is... an experience
2020-08-11T02:34:18 < Cracki> strata, do you do a scanf anywhere?
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2020-08-11T02:35:30 < rapha> oh
2020-08-11T02:35:32 < rapha> lest i forget
2020-08-11T02:35:45 < rapha> strata: https://quickshare.weitnahbei.de/C=64.tar have some more
2020-08-11T02:35:54 < Cracki> that looks like what I had to do
2020-08-11T02:36:23 -!- Mangy_Dog [Mangy_Dog@unaffiliated/mangy-dog/x-3069595] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds]
2020-08-11T02:37:16 < Cracki> maybe *(data+i) == data[i] or maybe i[data]
2020-08-11T02:38:30 < Cracki> maybe don't return right away, one rx might contain multiple commands/lines
2020-08-11T02:38:34 < rapha> strata: then perhaps you already have all the ones that are in there. it is a couple hundred MB of ROMs though. i've only gotten around to playing 4 or 5 of them so far.
2020-08-11T02:38:35 < Cracki> I guess it's good :P
2020-08-11T02:40:18 < rapha> okay, let me try to replicate what i have in HAL now, but with libopencm3
2020-08-11T02:40:34 < rapha> RCC_CLOCK_3V3_168MHZ is obviously specific to that mcu
2020-08-11T02:41:11 < rapha> strata: f042k6
2020-08-11T02:41:44 < rapha> am i looking for rcc_clock_setup_in_hse_8mhz_out_48mhz ?
2020-08-11T02:42:25 < Cracki> HSE, do you have an external clock?
2020-08-11T02:42:36 < rapha> oh wait ... RCC_OscInitStruct.HSI48State = RCC_HSI48_ON is what CubeMX generated. so rcc_clock_setup_in_hsi48_out_48mhz
2020-08-11T02:43:00 < qyx> no
2020-08-11T02:43:02 < rapha> aaaah, HS*I*nternal, HS*E*xternal ... and HS == "High Speed"! light bulb!
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2020-08-11T02:43:47 < qyx> you shouldn't expect things in libopencm3 to be named in a way CubeMX names them
2020-08-11T02:44:14 < rapha> i just want 48mhz, whatever that's called, but 48mhz is cool
2020-08-11T02:44:27 < qyx> check libopencm3 docs or the sources themselves which clock configurations are defined
2020-08-11T02:44:32  * rapha is probably very tired but the sensor for that broke an hour ago
2020-08-11T02:46:33 < Cracki> cubemx doesn't name it hsi48, the stm32 part names it that :P
2020-08-11T02:46:34 < rapha> strata: why does F0 not have a macro analogous to the F4's RCC_CLOCK_3V3_168MHZ that you're using? i.e., RCC_CLOCK_3V3_48MHZ or something like that?
2020-08-11T02:47:14 < Cracki> he seems to have no HSE
2020-08-11T02:47:25 < rapha> yes, that's all lower case and has _setup_ and _in_ and _out_ in it and shit
2020-08-11T02:47:28 < Cracki> or rcc_clock_setup_in_hsi48_out_48mhz (void) for hsi48
2020-08-11T02:47:39 < Cracki> so it's kinda regular
2020-08-11T02:47:43 < rapha> it's a completely different kind of name from what F4 has
2020-08-11T02:47:53 < Cracki> F4 is different enough
2020-08-11T02:48:04 < rapha> but why is one uppercase and one lowercase?
2020-08-11T02:48:12 < rapha> what does that have to do with the part?
2020-08-11T02:48:15 < Cracki> one is a function, the other is a #define
2020-08-11T02:48:36 < rapha> again, why? sure, the part is different, but it's still a microcontroller.
2020-08-11T02:48:45 < qyx> what
2020-08-11T02:48:45 < Cracki> probably different clock trees
2020-08-11T02:48:52 < rapha> hmm
2020-08-11T02:48:55 < rapha> okay
2020-08-11T02:49:12 < rapha> the uppercase vs lowercase still doesn't make sense why that would depend on the clock tree diagram
2020-08-11T02:49:13 < Cracki> if you want a function like rcc_clock_make_it_go_this_fast(48e6), that's an issue to take up with libopencm3 developers
2020-08-11T02:49:24 < Cracki> different issues
2020-08-11T02:49:31 < rapha> no, i don't care
2020-08-11T02:49:42 < Cracki> case is a convention. #defines are usually upper case
2020-08-11T02:49:51 < rapha> but the F4 has RCC_CLOCK_3V3_168MHZ and the F0 has rcc_clock_setup_in_hse_8mhz_out_48mhz()
2020-08-11T02:49:58 < Cracki> the f4 has that as a define
2020-08-11T02:50:03 < karlp> yeah, f0 and f1 have shitty fixed clock setup functions
2020-08-11T02:50:04 < Cracki> it's an argument to a function, isn't it
2020-08-11T02:50:09 < rapha> ah
2020-08-11T02:50:19 < rapha> hmm
2020-08-11T02:50:20 < karlp> "one day" they'll move to the consistent clock structure functions like every other part in locm3
2020-08-11T02:50:36 < Cracki> look at this line carefully:  rcc_clock_setup_pll(&rcc_hse_8mhz_3v3[RCC_CLOCK_3V3_168MHZ]); 
2020-08-11T02:50:39 < rapha> okay
2020-08-11T02:50:49 < Cracki> it's a function, and the argument to the function is something out of an array
2020-08-11T02:50:50 < karlp> f0/f1 have a few fixed options, the others let you use some precooked structs, or pass your own
2020-08-11T02:51:05 < rapha> okay, starting to make sense now
2020-08-11T02:51:09 < Cracki> array is rcc_hse_8mhz_3v3. index is RCC_CLOCK_3V3_168MHZ
2020-08-11T02:52:10 < Cracki> (that's strata's code for his F4 or something)
2020-08-11T02:53:09 < rapha> yes
2020-08-11T02:55:47 < Cracki> 5 bucks fx2lp based logic analyzer does the job too, for digital signals anyway
2020-08-11T02:56:28 < Cracki> I wouldn't kick a scope out of my bed tho
2020-08-11T02:57:48 < rapha> what is "SCB"?
2020-08-11T02:58:22 < karlp> system control block
2020-08-11T02:58:27 < rapha> ah
2020-08-11T02:58:28 < karlp> part of the cortex-m cpu
2020-08-11T02:58:34 < karlp> ie, not part of the stm32 parts...
2020-08-11T02:58:46 < rapha> so that's not needed for either setting the clock or doing gpio or pwm shit
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2020-08-11T03:00:36 < karlp> sorry, not sure of the context of SCB?
2020-08-11T03:00:47 < karlp> there's things in SCB you might care about , but ...?
2020-08-11T03:01:05 < karlp> are you just commenting on the include in strata's code? eyah, that's not relevant for you
2020-08-11T03:01:13 < rapha> yes :]
2020-08-11T03:05:09 < rapha> okay, the first hurdle is taken ... https://gist.github.com/sixtyfive/db48cd143a4514d50a3ea3d756186ed0 compiles and uploads and does nothing.
2020-08-11T03:09:38 < rapha> well ... vscode and platformio ... so Ctrl+Alt+U ... but yes, flashes fine
2020-08-11T03:10:03 < rapha> (which is already more than what worked with that combo and stm32hal :P)
2020-08-11T03:11:41 < rapha> i think rcc_clock_setup_in_hsi48_out_48mhz() is correct.
2020-08-11T03:13:25 < rapha> yes, working on setup_gpio() now
2020-08-11T03:13:35 < rapha> hmm
2020-08-11T03:13:48 < rapha> don't you do that in setup_pwm()?
2020-08-11T03:14:28 < rapha> oh, okay
2020-08-11T03:14:36 < rapha> ah rcc_periph_
2020-08-11T03:14:44 < rapha> hmm, he who can read...
2020-08-11T03:15:29 < rapha> my LED is on A ... so ... rcc_periph_clock_enable(RCC_GPIOA) and that's that? (for a blink-on-off-kind-of-thing, at least)
2020-08-11T03:18:22 < rapha> 15
2020-08-11T03:20:07 < rapha> check, check, check, fail ... i had GPIO_15 ... HAL ... *grumble*
2020-08-11T03:20:16 < rapha> AFn is "none"?
2020-08-11T03:21:01 < rapha> oh lol
2020-08-11T03:21:15 < rapha> ah, http://libopencm3.org/docs/latest/stm32f0/html/group__gpio__af__num.html
2020-08-11T03:21:30 < rapha> ur
2020-08-11T03:21:38 < rapha> but how do i know which one?
2020-08-11T03:21:39 < Cracki> it might be AF15, or not
2020-08-11T03:21:56 < Cracki> iirc pins can have multiple alternate functions, and those AFs might be meant
2020-08-11T03:22:11 < Cracki> this is probably in the RM, if not there then the datasheet
2020-08-11T03:22:26 < rapha> when i read alternate function i was thinking of stuff like SPI, CAN, I2S, whatever
2020-08-11T03:22:29 < Cracki> there's gonna be a table with pin names left, and AF columns rightward
2020-08-11T03:22:33 < Cracki> exactly
2020-08-11T03:22:34 < rapha> ah
2020-08-11T03:22:37  * rapha looks, then
2020-08-11T03:22:40 < Cracki> just wildly guessing here
2020-08-11T03:22:55 < Cracki> docs for gpio_set_af should say
2020-08-11T03:23:08 < rapha> no, only lists 0 through 15
2020-08-11T03:23:10 < rapha> http://libopencm3.org/docs/latest/stm32f0/html/group__gpio__af__num.html#ga6d376657d66d0a5939629b1722b27279
2020-08-11T03:23:34 < rapha> and RM defers to datasheet
2020-08-11T03:23:53 < Cracki> what RM do you have again?
2020-08-11T03:24:22 < rapha> for the F0x1, F0x2 and F0x8
2020-08-11T03:24:35 < rapha> i think it's simply the pin definitions table from the datasheet
2020-08-11T03:24:56 < rapha> ah, wait, table 14 is better
2020-08-11T03:25:41 < rapha> TIM2_CH1_ETR is the only one that seems to make sense
2020-08-11T03:25:52 < rapha> what is "ETR"?
2020-08-11T03:25:56 < Cracki> external trigger
2020-08-11T03:26:00 < rapha> oh
2020-08-11T03:26:04 < rapha> no. not good.
2020-08-11T03:26:14 < rapha> did i put the LED on a non-PWM-able pin?
2020-08-11T03:26:21 < Cracki> no that's ok
2020-08-11T03:26:35 < Cracki> this looks like pa15 is ch1/etr, neighboring pins are just ch2-4
2020-08-11T03:26:53 < Cracki> pa15 af2 is tim2_ch1_etr
2020-08-11T03:26:59 < Cracki> so it's AF2 there
2020-08-11T03:27:01 < rapha> only has SPI1_NSS, I2S1_WS, USART2_RX, TIM2_CH1_ETR, EVENTOUT, USB_NOE
2020-08-11T03:27:02 < Cracki> table 14 yes
2020-08-11T03:28:34 < rapha> okay, so, AF2 == TIM2_CH1_ETR ... but that sounds like it would clash with both pin toggling as well as PWMing ... what am i not understanding? or should it be something empty, like AF4, AF6, AF7?
2020-08-11T03:29:26 < karlp> no, it's just timer 2, channel1, also etr.
2020-08-11T03:30:23 < rapha> soo, for just toggling (no PWM yet), i'll skip gpio_set_af()
2020-08-11T03:31:50 < Cracki> if you DON'T want that pin pwming, just use it as a gpio, and don't configure an alternate function
2020-08-11T03:32:30 < Cracki> what does that set it to? pushpull or opendrain?
2020-08-11T03:33:44 < rapha> hah!
2020-08-11T03:33:50 < rapha> brightly lit LED! :-D
2020-08-11T03:34:14 < rapha> _NONE sets neither pushpull nor opendrain
2020-08-11T03:35:26 < rapha> got https://gist.github.com/sixtyfive/db48cd143a4514d50a3ea3d756186ed0 now
2020-08-11T03:38:15 < rapha> so now moving on to http://libopencm3.org/docs/latest/stm32f0/html/group__timer__file.html
2020-08-11T03:39:07 < rapha> TIM_CR1_CKD_CK_INT seems fine
2020-08-11T03:39:46 < rapha> and for just PWM'ing an LED, it probably doesn't matter whether _EDGE or _CENTER_*, right?
2020-08-11T03:40:26 < rapha> aha! the direction thing! that's what you spoke about earlier Cracki 
2020-08-11T03:40:42 < Cracki> pushpull can drive the pin low and high, open drain can only drive it low
2020-08-11T03:40:48 < Cracki> those are modes of output
2020-08-11T03:41:16 < Cracki> I guess you need another call for that specifically
2020-08-11T03:41:20 < Cracki> if you need it
2020-08-11T03:41:50 < Cracki> gpio_set_output_options, sounds optional
2020-08-11T03:41:57 < rapha> it seems the LED is connected in such a way that opendrain is fine?
2020-08-11T03:42:02 < Cracki> there you have otype GPIO_OTYPE_PP and _OD
2020-08-11T03:42:11 < Cracki> in your case you need pushpull
2020-08-11T03:42:20 < Cracki> because you'd need to pull the led high
2020-08-11T03:42:24 < rapha> hmm
2020-08-11T03:42:29 < Cracki> other pad of led is connected to ground in your case
2020-08-11T03:42:30 < rapha> but it's on right now
2020-08-11T03:42:43 < rapha> yes, AF2
2020-08-11T03:42:43 < Cracki> AF2 according tot able
2020-08-11T03:43:02 < Cracki> if the led is on, you probably get pushpull output type by default
2020-08-11T03:43:08 < rapha> nono
2020-08-11T03:43:14 < rapha> it's on because i set the pin high
2020-08-11T03:43:18 < Cracki> that too
2020-08-11T03:43:32 < Cracki> but if you set the pin high on an open drain output, it will just _not pull down_ the pin
2020-08-11T03:43:42 < rapha> ah
2020-08-11T03:43:44 < Cracki> so it must be in pushpull mode
2020-08-11T03:43:53 < rapha> so that's the default then
2020-08-11T03:43:56 < Cracki> don't let me confuse you with this
2020-08-11T03:44:07 < Cracki> yes, looks like it. the defines say _PP is value 0
2020-08-11T03:44:21 < rapha> better to be explicit about it tho i guess
2020-08-11T03:45:21 < rapha> woah ... WHAT?! output speed 100MHz?
2020-08-11T03:45:27 < rapha> how the heck would that little f042 do that?
2020-08-11T03:46:06 < rapha> _HIGH sounds okay :P
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2020-08-11T03:48:09 < rapha> woah!
2020-08-11T03:48:35 < rapha> okay, so you kept CENTER_1
2020-08-11T03:48:46 < rapha> :)
2020-08-11T03:49:17 < rapha> i'm sitting here pondering the difference between TIM_OCM_PWM1 and _PWM
2020-08-11T03:49:19 < rapha> 2
2020-08-11T03:49:42  * rapha likes "math some shit" ... sounds exactly like school
2020-08-11T03:50:25 < rapha> okay, so that has something to do with how timers are implemented in silicon
2020-08-11T03:52:07 < rapha> hmm i'm beginning to understand why people sometimes get angry at Arduino ... that's probably keeping all kinds of periphery switched on _all_ the time, and using up more energy than necessary because of that
2020-08-11T03:53:26 < rapha> already mathing away
2020-08-11T03:53:41 < rapha> whatever "dreisatz" is in English, doing it :P
2020-08-11T03:54:00 < rapha> we'll see
2020-08-11T03:54:37 < rapha> it's in the datasheet, not the RM
2020-08-11T03:54:37 < Cracki> it's in the datashit
2020-08-11T03:54:49 < rapha> RM somewhere sez so, but that's smallprint, literally
2020-08-11T03:57:07 < rapha> LED is upset now. doesn't want to light up at all.
2020-08-11T03:58:32 < rapha> oh!
2020-08-11T03:58:39 < rapha> forgot to clock the timer!
2020-08-11T03:59:00 < Cracki> remember that. if something doesn't work, ask yourself if it's clocked
2020-08-11T03:59:06 < rapha> okay
2020-08-11T03:59:08 < Cracki> that's one of the more frequent mistakes
2020-08-11T03:59:23 < rapha> it's like Arduino is treating the MCU like a gen purpose computer
2020-08-11T03:59:33 < Cracki> it's a good sign that you thought of that so quickly
2020-08-11T03:59:35 < rapha> but with this, you have to remember, the MCU has feelings too, and shit
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2020-08-11T04:00:08 < Cracki> hell atmegas have just one clock, and some let you disable peripherals but some don't have that
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2020-08-11T04:00:51 < rapha> LED still dark tho
2020-08-11T04:01:08 < rapha> mebbe my math is wrong
2020-08-11T04:01:13 < rapha> let me try 512 directly
2020-08-11T04:02:14 < rapha> what i still don't get is ... so the timer is set to compare 1024 to 512 now
2020-08-11T04:02:37 < rapha> aaaaaaah
2020-08-11T04:02:37 < Cracki> the timer counts (up likely, maybe down), and when it hits the channel value, it switches the pin
2020-08-11T04:02:45 < rapha> so perhaps AF2 is wrong after all
2020-08-11T04:02:47 < Cracki> and when it hits the ARR value (period), it resets
2020-08-11T04:02:54 < rapha> if the GPIO is not aware of what the timer is doing
2020-08-11T04:03:04 < Cracki> you can try a different AF value there but I'm betting AF2 is correct
2020-08-11T04:03:18 < Cracki> maybe some call is missing
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2020-08-11T04:05:02 < rapha> yeah, changing the AF doesn't help
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2020-08-11T04:05:48 < rapha> looking like this rn: https://gist.github.com/sixtyfive/db48cd143a4514d50a3ea3d756186ed0
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2020-08-11T04:07:21 < Cracki> gpio_mode_setup needs something saying AF too
2020-08-11T04:07:27 < rapha> funky
2020-08-11T04:07:35 < rapha> i was hovering my eyes over that line when you wrote that
2020-08-11T04:07:38 < Cracki> L18
2020-08-11T04:08:17 < Cracki> as for the output speeds, that's the drive strength or slew rate of the I/Os
2020-08-11T04:08:18 < rapha> HAH!! Green light!
2020-08-11T04:08:34 < rapha> yessssssssssssssss
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2020-08-11T04:08:42 < Cracki> I think even the slowest option still gives you hard enough edges for a MHz
2020-08-11T04:08:46 < rapha> i can see a breathing LED on the horizon almost
2020-08-11T04:08:55 < rapha> sooo
2020-08-11T04:09:13 < rapha> PWM_MAX ... i can choose that freely? i can have, like, 16000 steps if i like?
2020-08-11T04:09:15  * rapha tries
2020-08-11T04:09:23 < Cracki> possibly
2020-08-11T04:09:32 < Cracki> ARR would be 16000, and prescaler whatever you like
2020-08-11T04:09:43 < Cracki> timer_set_period
2020-08-11T04:09:53 < Cracki> PWM_MAX is probably 65535 or something
2020-08-11T04:10:07 < Cracki> why OC
2020-08-11T04:10:11 < Cracki> it's channel 1
2020-08-11T04:10:18 < Cracki> I read that as "ch1/etr"
2020-08-11T04:10:33 < Cracki> nah, what the channel does, input capture/output compare, doesn't seem to matter for the AF
2020-08-11T04:10:36 < Cracki> yes
2020-08-11T04:10:41 < Cracki> but maybe they map that to the same pin
2020-08-11T04:10:43 < Cracki> it's an F0
2020-08-11T04:10:55 < Cracki> the ch1/etr had three pins it could be AFed to
2020-08-11T04:11:31 < rapha> wooooooooooow
2020-08-11T04:11:38 < rapha> that's a REALLY dimly lit LED
2020-08-11T04:11:43 < rapha> sweeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeet
2020-08-11T04:12:09 < rapha> none of those reeeeaaaally visible steps you get with 8 bit 8MHz PWM
2020-08-11T04:13:17 < Cracki> 1/256 isn't much dynamic range. that's 24 dB (not squared, we have power here already)
2020-08-11T04:13:40 < Cracki> human eyes can see 100k lux (daylight) and way less than 1 lux
2020-08-11T04:14:23 < rapha> i can already see the LED beginning to dimly glow at a compare value of 2 (to 65535)
2020-08-11T04:15:03 < rapha> borderline-retina-burning
2020-08-11T04:15:08 < rapha> and that's with 430 ohm
2020-08-11T04:15:18 < rapha> the LED would still be happy at 100 ohm
2020-08-11T04:15:23 < rapha> yes :-D
2020-08-11T04:15:32 < rapha> AF2 was correct
2020-08-11T04:15:53 < rapha> but i had GPIO_OUTPUT instead of GPIO_AF 
2020-08-11T04:16:12 < rapha> wow!!!
2020-08-11T04:16:17 < rapha> this is soooooooo cool!!
2020-08-11T04:16:38 < Cracki> now you can try brighness curves
2020-08-11T04:16:41 < Cracki> try a square
2020-08-11T04:16:48 < Cracki> use floats, they're not that expensive
2020-08-11T04:16:54 < Cracki> or try something exponential
2020-08-11T04:17:02 < rapha> wait
2020-08-11T04:17:05 < rapha> in the arduino channel
2020-08-11T04:17:07 < Cracki> you can use HAL_GetTick for milliseconds
2020-08-11T04:17:09 < rapha> whenever i used a float
2020-08-11T04:17:13 < rapha> ppl would shout me down
2020-08-11T04:17:14 < Cracki> yes they're idiots
2020-08-11T04:17:19 < rapha> in here i'm being encouraged to use them :-D
2020-08-11T04:17:27 < Cracki> (1) atmegas are clocked slower
2020-08-11T04:17:42 < rapha> strata: what's the equivalent?
2020-08-11T04:17:45 < Cracki> (2) atmegas are 8 bit, not 32 bit
2020-08-11T04:18:00 < Cracki> (3), some stm32, not yours, use a cortex M4, which usually comes with an FPU, so floating point is even faster
2020-08-11T04:18:10 < rapha> o_O
2020-08-11T04:18:15 < rapha> well, okay
2020-08-11T04:18:21 < Cracki> srsly I used floats on atmega too because why the hell not. they cost a bit but I can live with it
2020-08-11T04:18:29 < Cracki> it's just a good idea to be aware of the cost
2020-08-11T04:18:32 < rapha> depends on what you want to do
2020-08-11T04:18:34 < Cracki> and not use them frivolously
2020-08-11T04:18:48 < rapha> fuck it's 3am and i have a dentist appointment in the morning
2020-08-11T04:18:49 < Cracki> it's like goto. idiots will burn you at the stake for using goto.
2020-08-11T04:19:05 < rapha> the first thing i ever learned was BASIC, on a C64 btw
2020-08-11T04:19:10 < rapha> and there was no choice but GOTO
2020-08-11T04:19:14 < Cracki> the dentist is gonna send you to sleep anyway
2020-08-11T04:19:20 < rapha> lol no just an xray
2020-08-11T04:19:29 < Cracki> oh right, no HAL in libopencm3 :D
2020-08-11T04:19:40 < rapha> hmm
2020-08-11T04:19:47 < rapha> but i want to have something non-blocking
2020-08-11T04:19:55 < rapha> the millis() thing _is_ useful for that
2020-08-11T04:20:04 < rapha> not because of the accuracy, but because it just keeps going on
2020-08-11T04:20:31 < Cracki> nonblocking meaning you set up a second timer, set up the interrupt handler for it, and do things quickly in the interrupt handler
2020-08-11T04:20:43 < Cracki> or just arduino it, do a big main loop, and ... eh
2020-08-11T04:20:54 < rapha> strata: yes, that's the idea. desk lamp for my mom. i'm frickin' scared of the hardware touch controller though. that won't be as "easy" as the PWM part.
2020-08-11T04:21:22 < rapha> nope, doesn't
2020-08-11T04:21:26 < Cracki> locm3 probably has some way to generate a microsecond/millisecond delay with nops instead of watching systick
2020-08-11T04:21:38 < Cracki> it's a convenient thing to have
2020-08-11T04:21:51 < rapha> TSC seems the step child of the STM32 world
2020-08-11T04:22:02 < rapha> not like the happy pink adafruit SAMD ponies
2020-08-11T04:23:08 < rapha> strata: i think i'll try with just the ADC values for now. can put a bunch of thumbtacks on the pin headers. but it won't do for the finished lamp because of ESD.
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2020-08-11T04:24:16 < rapha> but unlike with my HAL attempts, now with libopencm3 i actually have the feeling like i learned and understood something
2020-08-11T04:24:48 < rapha> (still thank you for the HAL help, though, Cracki, that included many good lessons on the MCU itself!)
2020-08-11T04:24:57 < Cracki> yw
2020-08-11T04:25:06 < rapha> do people ever combine HAL and libopencm3?
2020-08-11T04:25:12 < Cracki> I will smite you with my worn out shoe
2020-08-11T04:26:08  * rapha will go into hiding now, as someone with an indian girlfriend, who has seen shoes flying across the room
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2020-08-11T04:26:48 < ds2> shoes? too much redbull? :D
2020-08-11T04:26:58 < rapha> strata: i think http://libopencm3.org/docs/latest/stm32f0/html/tsc_8h_source.html is basically all there is atm
2020-08-11T04:27:19 < Cracki> memri tv memes
2020-08-11T04:27:25 < rapha> ds2: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=64zBYXB4Gs4
2020-08-11T04:27:27 < Cracki> you plebes don't know fun
2020-08-11T04:27:57 < rapha> _all_ desi (i.e. indian + pakistani + bangladeshi) children are afraid of the flying chappal
2020-08-11T04:28:16 < rapha> that video is hilarious tho
2020-08-11T04:28:33 < Cracki> til theres a word for me not being able to tell apart indians and pakistanis
2020-08-11T04:28:46 < rapha> :P
2020-08-11T04:29:00 < rapha> ever see some sign like "Desi Supermarket"? now you know why 
2020-08-11T04:29:04 < Cracki> lol
2020-08-11T04:29:14 < Cracki> video
2020-08-11T04:29:20 < Cracki> and no I haven't
2020-08-11T04:29:27 < rapha> the more important distinction is: "are you from the north or the south"?
2020-08-11T04:30:15 < rapha> in the UK i saw them sometimes but didn't know back then (12 y/o, first time abroad to learn a fucking scary language) what it was about
2020-08-11T04:30:23 < Cracki> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u-xYG6DTedo
2020-08-11T04:30:40 < rapha> lol at that too
2020-08-11T04:32:04 < Cracki> I find that a lot more civilized than westerners snarking at each other because that's all they're allowed to do... if there's a chance your opponent suddenly challenges you to a duel, you'd keep your tongue in check
2020-08-11T04:32:29 < rapha> well, the west had duelling times, too
2020-08-11T04:33:41 < rapha> strata: ouch. some mbed person who failed at TSC: https://os.mbed.com/users/manitou/code/L476_touch//rev/6cc44b2a3d49/
2020-08-11T04:36:22 < rapha> *yawn*
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2020-08-11T04:49:47 < rapha> https://gist.github.com/sixtyfive/db48cd143a4514d50a3ea3d756186ed0 breathing LED as a good night message. without curve; curve tomorrow.
2020-08-11T04:49:59 < rapha> gnight all and thanks for the great time! o/
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2020-08-11T05:19:38 < scrts> next task: implement a delay using another timer :)
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2020-08-11T10:57:48 < effractur> rapha: nice
2020-08-11T11:02:28 < rapha> morning all
2020-08-11T11:02:39 < rapha> okay, challenge accepted :P
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2020-08-11T11:36:28 < jpa-> which one of you was it that decided it is good idea to have resistor marking codes "10D" and "100"
2020-08-11T11:55:25 < qyx> I hate those alphanumeric ones
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2020-08-11T12:08:12 < Steffanx> Sorry jpa- 
2020-08-11T12:36:35 < dreamcat4> ho there
2020-08-11T12:36:44 < dreamcat4> just trying to understand better the purpose and practical situations for ITM /  SWO debugging
2020-08-11T12:38:00 < dreamcat4> if i understand correctly, it's a return channel which is independant of SWD / stlink ?
2020-08-11T12:43:36 < dreamcat4> to ask my question a different way: if i am connected with debugger over SWD. then hit "Start" or whatever. assuming i don't have any breakpoints. Will there be a performance hit?
2020-08-11T12:51:09 < karlp> maybe
2020-08-11T12:51:31 < karlp> writing to an itm port is still a memory write, and if you check whether it's full, there's a check
2020-08-11T12:51:44 < karlp> if you start calling printf to write debug messages, that's even more.
2020-08-11T12:52:08 < karlp> using things like interrupt tracing, or pc sampling however are basically free.
2020-08-11T12:55:44 < dreamcat4> or ETM trace with a logic analyzer http://essentialscrap.com/tips/arm_trace/
2020-08-11T12:57:49 < karlp> ETM can be configured to lose events or to slow down the core if your trace can't keep up
2020-08-11T12:57:55 < karlp> but ETM is the big thermonuke
2020-08-11T12:58:33 < karlp> you can do an _awful_ lot with 32 ITM channels, with optional timestamps, pc sampling, interrupt tracing, (with optional timestamps) plus the DWT
2020-08-11T13:00:37 < dreamcat4> err, why wouldn't i just step thru over GDB other than for performance cost ?
2020-08-11T13:00:55 < dreamcat4> it would seem easier to setup (over SWD stlink / openocd)
2020-08-11T13:01:16 < dreamcat4> i can set my breakpoints in VSCode
2020-08-11T13:01:55 < dreamcat4> (other than loosing the 4 SWD pins for the application) this is the main objective of my question,
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2020-08-11T13:42:44 < srk> that breaks realtime, also for load/timing analysis of the app
2020-08-11T13:47:44 < karlp> I'm not sure I follow
2020-08-11T13:48:05 < karlp> I would certainly never bother breaking out all 4 pins for etm, I don't even have any devices with those pins exposed,
2020-08-11T13:48:10 < karlp> but the swo pin is super awesome.
2020-08-11T13:48:34 < karlp> it's entirely complementary to stepping in gdb
2020-08-11T13:53:40 < Steffanx> So will you get your Russian vaccine PaulFertser ?
2020-08-11T14:02:39 < PaulFertser> Steffanx: idk yet. It sounds odd, I'd be surprised if russia would be really the first to develop and properly test (!) a decent vaccine.
2020-08-11T14:11:49 < karlp> you are the test subjects ;)
2020-08-11T14:15:21 < rapha> In Soviet Russia, scientist did not test vaccine, vaccine tested scientist. Nasdarovje!
2020-08-11T14:16:12 < PaulFertser> The vaccine developers claim they have already tested it on themselves. However, this practice doesn't seem to be unique to russia.
2020-08-11T14:19:58 < catphish> zyp: are you involved with megasquirt?
2020-08-11T14:28:02 < rapha> lol?
2020-08-11T14:28:18 < rapha> is that, like, a giant stm32-based DIY dildo?
2020-08-11T14:28:39 < karlp> an ECU I believe
2020-08-11T14:28:57 < karlp> well, EFI at least...
2020-08-11T14:28:59 < rapha> oh
2020-08-11T14:29:04 < rapha> funky name
2020-08-11T14:29:27 < karlp> megasquirt.info 
2020-08-11T14:31:45 < Steffanx> Aha ok. So you dont have more insider info PaulFertser 
2020-08-11T14:35:59 < zyp> catphish, why do you ask?
2020-08-11T14:36:22 < catphish> * Topic for ##megasquirt set by zyp!zyp@zyp.im (Tue Mar 27 14:03:13 2012)
2020-08-11T14:36:41 < zyp> wow, nice
2020-08-11T14:36:44 < catphish> wow that was along time ago
2020-08-11T14:37:12 < zyp> I ran megasquirt in my old car, so I used to hang around there, yes
2020-08-11T14:37:32 < zyp> not really involved, just a user
2020-08-11T14:37:34 < catphish> zyp: cool, i'm just getting started learning about engines, and trying to build my own EFI
2020-08-11T14:37:47 < catphish> dunno how i'll get on but should be fun
2020-08-11T14:38:14 < zyp> one of my friends is currently debating whether he should get another megasquirt or a speeduino, which is apparently the rage nowadays
2020-08-11T14:38:54 < zyp> either seems like shit hardware though
2020-08-11T14:39:16 < zyp> megasquirt is based on automotive chips, but they are obsolete as fuck
2020-08-11T14:39:22 < zyp> speeduino is well, arduino
2020-08-11T14:40:08 < zyp> kinda surprised nobody made anything decent modern, there's a ton of stuff to choose from
2020-08-11T14:40:16 < catphish> megasquirt goes look impressive in terms of software
2020-08-11T14:40:45 < catphish> i was going to just build my own from scratch, but i feel i'll miss out on the fancy realtime tuning software
2020-08-11T14:42:52 < zyp> I think you can reuse it
2020-08-11T14:43:28 < catphish> if i can use their desktop tuning software with my own backend that would be cool
2020-08-11T14:43:45 < catphish> i'm figuring out my hardware setup before i go anywhere near code though, since i'm working on a carburetted engine, i'll need to design a ton of hardware
2020-08-11T14:44:08 < catphish> and since i'm working on a non-running engine, i have to start with the basics like cleaning it, i'm 100% new to this :)
2020-08-11T14:45:17 < catphish> 1975 single cylinder 3HP engines, i figure it'll be almost impossible to break one of these, so a good candidate for tinkering, plus they only cost me 10GBP each
2020-08-11T14:45:40 < zyp> haha
2020-08-11T14:47:29 < zyp> so what's your goal? just play around?
2020-08-11T14:47:41 < zyp> wouldn't it be easier to just get a wreck of a car to play with? :p
2020-08-11T14:48:26 < catphish> yep, just to learn, goal 1 is to get one of them running, goal 2 is to convert it to EFI, purely a learning exercise before i do anything with a car engine, which i don't really have room to work on
2020-08-11T14:49:05 < catphish> i wanted to work on both hardware and software, so seemed a sane place to start
2020-08-11T14:49:31 < zyp> the nice thing about cars is that they are pretty self contained, you can just park it outside :p
2020-08-11T14:50:11 < catphish> https://youtu.be/9hMnlyKZLwE?list=PLUBbg7VLSf-NBbeovWtd6I_pbJVpOaDhE&t=284
2020-08-11T14:50:21 < catphish> this guy got one of these engines converted to EFI + turbo :D
2020-08-11T14:50:48 < zyp> haha, nice
2020-08-11T14:51:25 < catphish> so yeah, that would be a lovely end goal, but mostly i'm just learning and trying to work on something that's not just software :)
2020-08-11T14:52:55 < catphish> the main thing i haven't figured out yet is how to build an injector and throttle housing, i think that will require some metalwork, which i've never done before
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2020-08-11T14:58:06 < hsce__> Hi all. I'm reading about PTP registers in stm32F7 reference manual and I'm puzzled on something. It says that this registers "ETH_PTP_*" are used to addend the system time, but isn't system time just the # of milliseconds after boot?
2020-08-11T14:58:57 < karlp> ~well, are you planning on using PTP? and do you have an environment that supports that?
2020-08-11T14:59:02 < karlp> if not, just ignore them all.
2020-08-11T14:59:23 < hsce__> Yes I'm doing a bit of research in order to implement ptp
2020-08-11T15:01:32 < hsce__> I have a gps receiver which I use to update an RTC clock and was planning on using this time to timestamp packets. But then I read that stm supports hardware timestamping with this registers, but I don't understand them that well
2020-08-11T15:02:20 < hsce__> perhaps, having the gps+rtc I don't need this registers?
2020-08-11T15:11:55 < karlp> iirc, you can be a ptp master too, using ptp to distribute your gps time.
2020-08-11T15:12:21 < karlp> at one end of ptp you're normally going to find a gps or similar.
2020-08-11T15:12:29 < karlp> whose end that is is entirely upto you
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2020-08-11T15:24:52 < hsce__> karlp, I'm planning on using my device (w/ gps + rtc) as master and then test against a linux slave or something of the sort.
2020-08-11T15:25:36 < hsce__> but, for now, the confusing part is if I should be using those registers. I'll try to use my rtc time for now
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2020-08-11T15:45:32 < GenTooMan> LAT <-- Live Action Troll (sans big spiky club)
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2020-08-11T15:52:44 < jpa-> hsce__: the system time for PTP is the internal nanosecond accuracy clock of the ETH core
2020-08-11T15:53:47 < jpa-> section 42.5.9 Precision time protocol  contains a reasonably good explanation
2020-08-11T15:55:08 < jpa-> the ETH registers provide ways to adjust the time of the clock internal to the ETH core; the actual timestamp values are returned through the FIFO with the frame data
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2020-08-11T16:29:50 < hsce__> jpa-: by "actual timestamp" you mean, e.g., the gps time?
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2020-08-11T16:42:46 < GenTooMan> good question... I was wondering about where the "magic clock came" and how it was accurate or even precise.
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2020-08-11T16:51:43 < aandrew> hsce__: I just completed a contract where I implemented PTP on STM32F7
2020-08-11T16:52:20 < aandrew> hsce__: there is system time, and there is PTP time (and there is also wall clock time if you like) -- these do not have to be the same thing, and in fact often aren't
2020-08-11T16:52:52 < aandrew> in the work I did, system time was uncorrected, started from 0 at power on and was used, well, for the system (all timing)
2020-08-11T16:53:27 < aandrew> PTP time came from the PTP master in the network and was used for the one subsystem which required sub-microsecond timing amongst peers
2020-08-11T16:54:17 < aandrew> in my case, it was configuring a timer output to turn on at a specific time and off at another using the compare registers, and the timer's value came from PTP
2020-08-11T16:56:07 < aandrew> one of the boards in the system also had an FGPA connected to the STM32 and had its own PTP implementation which it used to grab the PTP time from the ethernet frames and write the PTP timestamp of when its ADC aquisitions took place into its outgoing gigabit frames
2020-08-11T16:57:49 < aandrew> the network was a little weird - there was an industrial PC with 16 PoE interfaces (not a single interface with a switch, but literally 16 intel gig-e adapters). Each interface went point-to-point to one of the STM32 systems
2020-08-11T16:58:03 < aandrew> the PC was the PTP master
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2020-08-11T16:58:27 < aandrew> the PC eth drivers had to be PTP aware of course and we used Domain Time software 
2020-08-11T16:59:19 < aandrew> this was NOT GPS-locked (could have been, but wasn't necessary) and we did have more drift than we could have had with a better clock source, but it worked acceptablyt
2020-08-11T17:03:33 < hsce__> aandrew: thanks for the input! In my case my gps-connected device is the master and internally I won't be using the time much other than for the ptp daemon to sync. The saves will be some cpus running linux with their own ptp implementation
2020-08-11T17:03:49 < hsce__> slaves*
2020-08-11T17:05:01 < hsce__> and how did you do the timestamping of packets? Software or used the hardware timestamping? (those ETH_PTP_* registers)
2020-08-11T17:06:26 < hsce__> what I understand from your input is that I want my ptp and wall clocks to be the same (gps time)
2020-08-11T17:07:38 < aandrew> I'm using hardware timestamping
2020-08-11T17:07:55 < aandrew> the usual implementation is that your PTP time is the same as wall time (from GPS usually)
2020-08-11T17:08:54 < aandrew> hardware timestamping support needs LwIP patched so the frame structure has two additional fields (the PTP timestamp) and then your low level input/output routines fill them in or pull the data out
2020-08-11T17:09:24 < aandrew> addend you need to compute based on your PCLK and what your PTP implementation is using for a tick (which is usually 20ns)
2020-08-11T17:09:50 < aandrew> that was probably the biggest question mark I had in all of this, I could not find out wtf value to use, but things started working once that was right
2020-08-11T17:13:31 < aandrew> hsce__: https://gist.github.com/akohlsmith/4cba0cd710d61c5d7dd993d34d7e63cf
2020-08-11T17:13:36 < aandrew> (apparently pastebin.com is gone now)
2020-08-11T17:13:57 < aandrew> hm, no I reloaded it and it works
2020-08-11T17:14:13 < hsce__> aandrew: that makes sense. Ah yes I've been reading that lwip might need that patch on the pbuf struct. Mainly what was confusing me was that after getting GPS time I'll have to set the time both in the RTC I use for timestamping debug messages and now the ETH_PTP_* registers to be used by the hardware timestamping
2020-08-11T17:15:02 < hsce__> thank you, actually I think I have that table here somewhere as well
2020-08-11T17:15:53 < aandrew> if you're doing timestamping it's not might, it's a for sure.
2020-08-11T17:16:05 < aandrew> and depending on what you're trying to do, you can try to sync system time to PTP but I wouldn't recommend it
2020-08-11T17:16:17 < aandrew> you'll have to make sure all your code is perfectly happy with time moving backward
2020-08-11T17:16:37 < aandrew> just keep the sync'd time somewhere and refer to it when needed, the entire system doesn't have to run off corrected tiem
2020-08-11T17:17:32 < aandrew> don't use the RTC time for logging, replace calls to fetch that time with calls which return the PTP time, and perhaps if PTP is not available, have some slow interrupt copy RTC time to PTP time
2020-08-11T17:18:04 < aandrew> if you want RTC sync'd, you can either implement NTP-like PLLs or simply step change the RTC time if the difference is > 1s or something
2020-08-11T17:19:43 < hsce__> aandrew: I was wondering that a while ago by I don't need system time to be corrected. (at least, I'm not sure what might break if time moves backward so I'll just leave it be :)
2020-08-11T17:20:13 < hsce__> "RTC time for logging, replace calls to fetch that time with calls which return the PTP time" : hm never though of that, it makes a lot of sense
2020-08-11T17:21:38 < aandrew> it really depends on what your requirements are. for me it was easy, the only thing that had to be synchronized were the outputs of one particular timer 
2020-08-11T17:22:07 < aandrew> I fell down that timekeeping rabbit hole and learned a lot, and lurk on the time-nuts mailing list now too, heh
2020-08-11T17:28:13 < hsce__> I'm going through that hole right now heh but I'm far too inexperienced with embedded stuff so it's too much learning at the same time
2020-08-11T17:28:41 < hsce__> again, thanks for helping!
2020-08-11T17:30:15 < aandrew> that's what we're here for when we're not too busy trolling
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2020-08-11T17:42:06  * karlp can't do a password reset on a github machine user because he never verified the email.
2020-08-11T17:42:15 < karlp> easiest to just make anew one I think now...
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2020-08-11T18:14:10 < Cracki> aandrew, I'm curious, would "NTP-like PLL" be done by tweaking systick (SYST_RVR)?
2020-08-11T18:30:55 < jpa-> hsce__: actual timestamp is whatever the ETH core timer is running at; you can yourself synchronize it to gps if you want to
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2020-08-11T19:09:06 < aandrew> Cracki: typically not, you just track the difference between where you are and where you want to be and implement a PI that adjusts your increment
2020-08-11T19:09:48 < aandrew> I guess you could make it platform specific but I suspect that would add unnecessary complexity and potentially bugs as you try to adjust the register beyond its limits?
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2020-08-11T19:45:42 < bitmask> my hidden LCD mount is working https://imgur.com/a/wCLUGZw
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2020-08-11T19:54:13 < Cracki> ic. well that register is 24 bits, and taking 168 mhz and ~1ms ticks, I'd have ~6ppm increments
2020-08-11T19:55:12 < Cracki> would keep millisecond ticks, nice and dumb, but also allow to keep those close in phase
2020-08-11T19:55:48 < Cracki> i'd consider it crude "trimming" to adjust systick period/reload value
2020-08-11T20:18:32 < qyx> so nkon.nl you say
2020-08-11T20:18:45 < upgrdman> smart guy https://www.reddit.com/r/Whatcouldgowrong/comments/i7ssir/wcgw_if_i_throw_something_on_live_power_line/
2020-08-11T20:21:09 < qyx> did he throw the other one a cable or what
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2020-08-11T20:28:16 < aandrew> hidden except for the giant stepper motor at the bottom :-)
2020-08-11T20:31:30 < Steffanx> Did you get your gf to be into 3d printing and stuff yet me bitmask ?
2020-08-11T20:31:43 < bitmask> haha of course not
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2020-08-11T20:32:17 < bitmask> stepper motor has nothing to do with the lcd mount
2020-08-11T20:32:42 < bitmask> i just meant hidden because it slides out and up when you wanna use it and then slides away when not
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2020-08-11T21:02:12 < zyp> qyx, what about nkon?
2020-08-11T21:05:03 < Steffanx> its a dutchy, dont trust the dutch
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2020-08-11T21:24:44 < qyx> are they legit?
2020-08-11T21:24:50 < qyx> I see some batteries are refurbished
2020-08-11T21:24:54 < qyx> no problems with shipping?
2020-08-11T21:25:05 < qyx> I need to get some 18650s
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2020-08-11T21:44:55 < Steffanx> yes, nkon is legit.
2020-08-11T21:45:11 < Steffanx> very well know in the battery world for sure.
2020-08-11T21:46:57 < Steffanx> i dont think nl->cz is really an issue qyx?
2020-08-11T21:47:20 < Steffanx> the other way around works well at least.
2020-08-11T21:47:46 < qyx> cz doesn't help me
2020-08-11T21:47:49 < qyx> but I hope sk is the same
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2020-08-11T22:07:44 < Steffanx> oh, sk
2020-08-11T22:07:49 < Steffanx> i always forget you're from sk and not cz
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2020-08-11T22:35:45 < t4nk_freenode> THEY ALL LOOK THE SAME TO ME!
2020-08-11T22:35:46 < t4nk_freenode> ;)
2020-08-11T22:40:10 < zyp> qyx, I had no problems, worked pretty well for me
2020-08-11T22:41:36 < zyp> https://bin.jvnv.net/file/huD2z.jpg <- here's my pack made from nkon batteries
2020-08-11T22:44:29 < zyp> haven't tested the range of it yet (or attempted to measure the capacity of the pack), but I've done several ~30km trips without any problems
2020-08-11T22:44:49 < qyx> oh I like those battery holders
2020-08-11T22:45:04 < qyx> how did you spot welded them
2020-08-11T22:45:27 < zyp> https://bin.jvnv.net/file/1MSdu.jpg <- I bought the cheapest usable-looking spot welder I could find
2020-08-11T22:46:59 < zyp> I had to buy new battery holders, was originally planning to reuse the old ones, but they were pretty broken: https://bin.jvnv.net/file/iXprg.jpg
2020-08-11T22:48:03 < zyp> but I also managed to buy nickel strip with the wrong pitch first, so I had to reorder that and just got new holders in the same order
2020-08-11T22:48:47 < qyx> whats that suspicious thing on the red wire
2020-08-11T22:48:53 < qyx> a switch?
2020-08-11T22:48:55 < zyp> I also guess main reason the holders broke were because the pack was assembled as 10S4P
2020-08-11T22:48:59 < zyp> fuse
2020-08-11T22:49:00 < qyx> a multi-amp china made switch?
2020-08-11T22:49:03 < qyx> oh, ok then
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2020-08-11T22:49:48 < zyp> https://bin.jvnv.net/file/DcW30.jpg <- my original pack was 10S5P with 2000mAh cells
2020-08-11T22:50:39 < zyp> and instead of pulling that apart, I got the old pack from a friend who originally bought the same as me, that he replaced with a whole new battery last year
2020-08-11T22:50:50 < zyp> and that was 10S4P with 2500mAh cells instead
2020-08-11T22:51:32 < zyp> new pack is 10S5P with 2750mAh cells, so it should have a fair bit more range than the old ones
2020-08-11T22:53:25 < zyp> pretty happy I went this route
2020-08-11T22:55:07 < Steffanx> What did you pay for it in the end?
2020-08-11T22:55:32 < Steffanx> What kind of (motor) controller do you have? 
2020-08-11T22:55:33 < zyp> probably about the same as for a new premade pack
2020-08-11T22:55:39 < zyp> BBS01 250W
2020-08-11T22:56:26 < zyp> cells from nkon are a lot cheaper than premade packs, and now I've got the spot welder for next time
2020-08-11T22:56:27 < rapha> those thingos for connecting the 18650s to one another, can they be bought new?
2020-08-11T22:56:40 < zyp> the nickel strip? of course
2020-08-11T22:57:20 < zyp> they come in different pitches, so you wanna get the correct one for the holders you're gonna use
2020-08-11T22:57:46 < Steffanx> Oh fancy "mid drive"
2020-08-11T22:58:37 < rapha> oh wow you can just buy them by the meter
2020-08-11T22:58:54 < rapha> i always reused old ones but often they rip and so on and it's not fun
2020-08-11T22:58:57 < zyp> here's the exact ones I got: https://www.aliexpress.com/item/4000059946661.html
2020-08-11T22:59:01 < zyp> they fit these holders: https://www.aliexpress.com/item/33056998808.html
2020-08-11T22:59:04 < zyp> wat
2020-08-11T22:59:06 < zyp> reused?
2020-08-11T22:59:17 < zyp> how do you even get them off in once piece?
2020-08-11T22:59:25 < rapha> with patience and small pliers
2020-08-11T22:59:27 < qyx> https://eu.nkon.nl/accessories/packaccessoires/spacer/3-18650-battery-spacer.html
2020-08-11T22:59:32 < qyx> hm, no drawing
2020-08-11T22:59:33 < zyp> haha, fuck off
2020-08-11T22:59:34 < rapha> but then you need to hammer them into shape again
2020-08-11T22:59:47 < rapha> oh cool thanks for the links!
2020-08-11T23:00:11 < qyx> what pitch are yours?
2020-08-11T23:00:15 < qyx> ~20mm?
2020-08-11T23:00:34 < qyx>  Battery center spacing: 19mm 
2020-08-11T23:00:49 < rapha> different i guess ... i never _built_ a pack, i only _fix_ people's worn out packs
2020-08-11T23:00:49 < zyp> I disassembled the 10S4P pack because I planned to reuse the plastic holders, and even just cutting the strips between the cells was a fucking shit job
2020-08-11T23:00:58 < zyp> so I'm not doing that again
2020-08-11T23:01:06 < rapha> but yeah it's a shit job mostly
2020-08-11T23:01:11 < zyp> rapha, what's the difference?
2020-08-11T23:01:24 < zyp> I put all new cells in a worn out pack
2020-08-11T23:01:29 < rapha> yes sure
2020-08-11T23:01:32 < zyp> kept the box and BMS and stuff
2020-08-11T23:01:41 < rapha> but if i'm reusing the strips then i have no clue what pitch they are because i don't measure
2020-08-11T23:01:47 < zyp> true
2020-08-11T23:01:57 < zyp> as I said, I managed to get the wrong pitch first time around
2020-08-11T23:02:01 < rapha> just happy that you guys talked about this
2020-08-11T23:02:07 < rapha> because i'm about to build my first own pack
2020-08-11T23:02:08 < qyx> I need a 2x3 one but with a specific shape
2020-08-11T23:02:14 < qyx> probably better to cnc mill it
2020-08-11T23:02:21 < rapha> want 6 cells in 2 rows
2020-08-11T23:02:31 < rapha> yeah, 2x3
2020-08-11T23:02:39 < zyp> but if you get the strips and holders I linked, they'll fit
2020-08-11T23:02:48 < zyp> qyx, mill what?
2020-08-11T23:03:37 < qyx> the holder
2020-08-11T23:03:46 < rapha> looking for similar ones on eBay ... ali has been slow
2020-08-11T23:04:16 < zyp> my holders are also an irregular shape to fit the box, I just used cutters to snip off the areas that got in the way
2020-08-11T23:04:45 < zyp> https://bin.jvnv.net/file/huD2z.jpg <- i.e. the top right five empty spots, and a couple in the bottom left
2020-08-11T23:04:54 < rapha> zyp how did you do the welding? big-ass cap?
2020-08-11T23:05:01 < qyx> I have a 55mm wide PCB, I need to place 2x3 18650 above it
2020-08-11T23:05:04 < zyp> rapha, https://bin.jvnv.net/file/1MSdu.jpg
2020-08-11T23:05:13 < rapha> oh
2020-08-11T23:05:14 < rapha> damn
2020-08-11T23:05:16 < qyx> in a way the PCB can still be inserted into guide rails
2020-08-11T23:05:19 < rapha> sweet
2020-08-11T23:05:30 < zyp> cheapest shit I found on aliexpress that looked like it could do the job
2020-08-11T23:05:37 < zyp> it could
2020-08-11T23:05:38 < rapha> how cheap was cheap?
2020-08-11T23:05:58 < zyp> let's see
2020-08-11T23:06:21 < zyp> $120 shipped
2020-08-11T23:06:29 < zyp> https://www.aliexpress.com/item/32894475701.html
2020-08-11T23:06:31 < rapha> ouch
2020-08-11T23:06:37 < rapha> i'll keep soldering then for now
2020-08-11T23:07:29 < zyp> cells were ~€140 shipped
2020-08-11T23:07:38 < zyp> and then some for the holders and nickel strip
2020-08-11T23:09:25 < qyx> 50 cells for 140€?
2020-08-11T23:09:38 < zyp> yes
2020-08-11T23:09:42 < qyx> oh yeah
2020-08-11T23:09:57 < zyp> let's see, a new pack would have been like $400
2020-08-11T23:10:02 < zyp> half for the pack, half for shipping
2020-08-11T23:10:52 < rapha> cells also off of ali?
2020-08-11T23:11:19 < zyp> qyx, bought these: https://ru.nkon.nl/samsung-inr18650-29e-2900mah-e6-3784.html
2020-08-11T23:12:05 < qyx> I am looking for some low current ones, preferably >=3300mAh
2020-08-11T23:12:20 < qyx> also, rechargeable to -10°C, but those are unobtainium
2020-08-11T23:12:30 < zyp> heh
2020-08-11T23:12:58 < zyp> I picked these because they seemed like the best bang for the buck
2020-08-11T23:13:42 < zyp> relatively low current, but plenty for a 250W ebike in a 10S5P pack
2020-08-11T23:14:36 < zyp> IIRC they didn't have any significantly cheaper cells with lower capacity, and also no higher capacity cells that weren't significantly more expensive
2020-08-11T23:16:21 < Steffanx> Heh why does the url say 2900 mAh?
2020-08-11T23:16:48 < zyp> qyx, you're looking for something like this then? https://ru.nkon.nl/rechargeable/li-ion/18650-size/lg-inr18650m36-3600mah-10a-floaten.html
2020-08-11T23:16:57 < zyp> no idea what floating means though
2020-08-11T23:17:21 < zyp> ah
2020-08-11T23:17:25 < zyp> probably «This Are B-Grade Cells, There Is More Variatin Between Indiviual Cells Concerning Capacity.»
2020-08-11T23:18:47 < qyx> probably doesn't matter for 2S3P with balancer
2020-08-11T23:19:09 < qyx> or I could even do 6P
2020-08-11T23:19:51 < qyx> zyp: how much was shipping?
2020-08-11T23:20:32 < zyp> ~€60
2020-08-11T23:20:42 < zyp> so almost half of the cost
2020-08-11T23:21:04 < qyx> O_o
2020-08-11T23:21:07 < qyx> wuff
2020-08-11T23:21:30 < qyx> thats only across the sea
2020-08-11T23:21:32 < zyp> seems to be normal for shipping lithium batteries
2020-08-11T23:21:45 < qyx> I'll check
2020-08-11T23:21:51 < zyp> I think it was transported by land
2020-08-11T23:22:18 < zyp> they probably drove it from .nl, up through .de, .dk, .se and then .no
2020-08-11T23:23:31 < Steffanx> Heh, it seems shipping is free for me. 😬
2020-08-11T23:23:37 < Steffanx> Surprise.
2020-08-11T23:23:43 < zyp> probably cheaper inside EU as well
2020-08-11T23:24:19 < Steffanx> Also qyx should browse eu.nkon.nl not that ru website
2020-08-11T23:24:25 < zyp> yeah
2020-08-11T23:24:28 < qyx> oh
2020-08-11T23:24:31 < zyp> ru. is for non-EU customers
2020-08-11T23:24:36 < qyx> I clicked eu
2020-08-11T23:25:33 < Steffanx> It says 12 .50 for 50 of those batteries zyp got
2020-08-11T23:25:42 < Steffanx> 12.50 euro bucks
2020-08-11T23:26:20 < zyp> in shipping?
2020-08-11T23:26:27 < Steffanx> Yes.
2020-08-11T23:26:32 < Steffanx> Lol
2020-08-11T23:26:33 < zyp> sounds reasonable
2020-08-11T23:27:06 < qyx> did you register?
2020-08-11T23:27:29 < qyx> I see
2020-08-11T23:27:38 < qyx> GLS 7.61€ for 6 batteries
2020-08-11T23:28:55 < qyx> 10.35€ for 50 zyp-batteries
2020-08-11T23:29:03 < qyx> good
2020-08-11T23:29:22 < Steffanx> Oh even cheaper than what i got? Weird
2020-08-11T23:29:27 < zyp> haha
2020-08-11T23:29:40 < Steffanx> Oh wrong slovakia
2020-08-11T23:29:47 < Steffanx> Lol
2020-08-11T23:29:51 < qyx> what
2020-08-11T23:30:03 < Steffanx> Slovenia != slovakia 
2020-08-11T23:30:07 < qyx> haha
2020-08-11T23:30:27 < zyp> slov slov
2020-08-11T23:33:58 < t4nk_freenode> slovenia is the country of mighty men!
2020-08-11T23:34:02 < t4nk_freenode> like ... specing ;)
2020-08-11T23:34:18 < specing> yes
2020-08-11T23:34:39 < t4nk_freenode> (true birthplace of the Vikings, but nobody knows)
2020-08-11T23:34:47 < qyx> tme says 3450mAh for the M36 version https://www.tme.eu/sk/details/accu-inr18650-m36/akumulatory/lg-electronics/inr18650-m36/
2020-08-11T23:35:09 < qyx> 5.10e without VAT
2020-08-11T23:36:35 < qyx> so it is 38€ at tme vs 25€ at nkon incl shipping and VAT
2020-08-11T23:36:48 < qyx> quite a difference
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2020-08-11T23:42:26 < specing> bad deal unless you are a weight weenie
2020-08-11T23:42:28 < specing> also very high capacity probably means lower reaction surface meaning worse aging
2020-08-11T23:43:26 < zyp> I don't think qyx is building a bike battery, and I believe it's more about volume than weight
2020-08-11T23:44:17 < zyp> doesn't help that you can support 10kg of batteries if there's only enough room for six cells
2020-08-11T23:49:14 < qyx> jlcpcb payments are not working :S
2020-08-11T23:54:17 < zyp> aww
2020-08-11T23:54:45 < zyp> I should finish up my fpga board soon
2020-08-11T23:55:00 < qyx> I received my BGA board
2020-08-11T23:55:10 < qyx> I should order mouser
2020-08-11T23:55:21 < zyp> now that kid started kindergarden, I'm starting to get free time again
2020-08-11T23:56:30 < zyp> today I went out to do some more work in the garden, shit's been on hold since last summer
2020-08-11T23:56:47 < zyp> except nature doesn't pause, so everything was fucking overgrown
2020-08-11T23:56:54 < zyp> last year: https://bin.jvnv.net/file/Rfuw4.jpg
2020-08-11T23:56:55 < qyx> what? she is 1y old, isn't she?
2020-08-11T23:57:01 < zyp> today: https://bin.jvnv.net/file/v4ZQG.jpg
2020-08-11T23:57:05 < zyp> yeah?
2020-08-11T23:57:15 < qyx> that early?
2020-08-11T23:57:25 < zyp> sure
2020-08-11T23:57:59 < zyp> still not 1y for another week and a half
2020-08-11T23:59:03 < zyp> it's pretty normal here that kids start kindergarden when they turn one
2020-08-11T23:59:33 < Steffanx> So what will you put there instead or will you just remove it to let it be overgrown again next year?
--- Day changed Wed Aug 12 2020
2020-08-12T00:00:13 < zyp> maternity/paternity leave adds up to about a year, then kid goes to kindergarden so both parents can go back to work
2020-08-12T00:02:00 < zyp> except I haven't used any paternity leave yet, I've partly worked from home, partly been covid-furloughed
2020-08-12T00:02:15 < zyp> so I'm planning to take all of that later, while kid is in kindergarden :p
2020-08-12T00:02:50 < zyp> Steffanx, I'm gonna extend the concrete wall all the way around
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2020-08-12T00:03:28 < qyx> even the balls are still there
2020-08-12T00:03:32 < zyp> I only finished part of it last year in a hurry before they came to put down the asphalt next to it
2020-08-12T00:03:59 < Steffanx> Norwegian richness...
2020-08-12T00:04:27 < Steffanx> Cant all live in a van on the lawn, strata
2020-08-12T00:04:31 < zyp> https://bin.jvnv.net/file/fXu4V.jpg <- borrowed a grass trimmer and got rid of the overgrowth
2020-08-12T00:04:49 < Steffanx> Whos lawn?
2020-08-12T00:04:50 < zyp> strata, not really that huge
2020-08-12T00:05:55 < zyp> for norway, my house was fairly cheap
2020-08-12T00:06:16 < zyp> I paid about the same for this house as one of my friends did for a small one bedroom apartment in Oslo :p
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2020-08-12T00:08:53 < zyp> qyx, one of them went missing
2020-08-12T00:09:17 < zyp> but yeah
2020-08-12T00:11:06 < zyp> I hope I can get some decent progress made this fall
2020-08-12T00:12:38 < zyp> still have a stack of those garden stones sitting next to my entrance door, will be good when I can start putting them down
2020-08-12T00:27:02 < jadew`> zyp, do you have rodents?
2020-08-12T00:27:26 < jadew`> it's one of the biggest concerns we have regarding moving into a house
2020-08-12T00:27:40 < zyp> have in what sense?
2020-08-12T00:27:50 < jadew`> like... do you have to deal with them in any way?
2020-08-12T00:28:22 < zyp> not so far, and I don't expect it either
2020-08-12T00:28:23 < jadew`> rats, mice, other wild animals
2020-08-12T00:28:40 < jadew`> that's good, is that not a think in Norway?
2020-08-12T00:28:45 < jadew`> *thing
2020-08-12T00:28:49 < zyp> yes it is
2020-08-12T00:29:14 < zyp> old place I lived (with basement rock) had rats running around
2020-08-12T00:29:40 < zyp> but that was an old shitty house with plenty of holes they could get in
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2020-08-12T00:30:47 < jadew`> I see, so the way in which the house is built matters
2020-08-12T00:30:50 < zyp> this house doesn't have a basement, it's built on a raised concrete pad, which means the only place rodents can get in is between the concrete and the wood paneling, and that's covered with some sort of metal mesh
2020-08-12T00:30:54 < zyp> yeah
2020-08-12T00:31:09 < zyp> not having a basement eliminates a whole pile of potential problems
2020-08-12T00:31:26 < zyp> no risk of water from the ground leaking into the house either
2020-08-12T00:32:05 < zyp> same old place suddenly had a waterfall in through the wall one spring when the snow were melting
2020-08-12T00:32:19 < zyp> flooded my kitchen
2020-08-12T00:32:37 < jadew`> yeah, I've seen a flooded basement before
2020-08-12T00:33:00 < jadew`> there's no way to properly isolate it tho?
2020-08-12T00:33:10 < jadew`> a basement is very useful
2020-08-12T00:33:35 < zyp> https://bin.jvnv.net/file/gGIAM.jpg
2020-08-12T00:34:15 < zyp> it's not about isolation, it's about proper drainage around the house
2020-08-12T00:35:42 < zyp> generally if you have enough water on the outside of the wall, it will get inside, so the solution is to put down drainage pipes to lead it away and keep the ground dry
2020-08-12T00:36:34 < zyp> although I guess if you really wanted you could build a house boat like they have in the .nl, I think they are pretty good at keeping out water :p
2020-08-12T00:37:04 < jadew`> never heard of that
2020-08-12T00:37:08 < jadew`> they build them like boats?
2020-08-12T00:37:26 < jadew`> oh, they're actual boats
2020-08-12T00:37:55 < zyp> https://www.dirkmarine.com/folio/concrete-hull-by-dirkmarine/ <- shit like this
2020-08-12T00:38:48 < jadew`> interesting
2020-08-12T00:38:58 < zyp> hmm
2020-08-12T00:39:16 < zyp> I wonder if they are completely watertight or pump out water regularly
2020-08-12T00:39:44 < zyp> also, are basements really that useful?
2020-08-12T00:39:53 < zyp> I mean
2020-08-12T00:40:04 < jadew`> well, they're good for storing food
2020-08-12T00:40:11 < qyx> yes, I am sitting in the basement now
2020-08-12T00:40:12 < jadew`> you get a fairly constant temperature
2020-08-12T00:40:32 < zyp> more area is useful, obviously
2020-08-12T00:41:12 < jadew`> there's no better place in a house to store pickles and stuff like that
2020-08-12T00:41:20 < zyp> fridge? :p
2020-08-12T00:41:43 < jadew`> sure, but only if you have one or two jars :P
2020-08-12T00:41:50 < ds2> just do both... build a concrete box and bury it in a course gravel bed
2020-08-12T00:42:15 < jadew`> right, I guess you could get one of those bunkers
2020-08-12T00:42:24 < jadew`> and store things there
2020-08-12T00:42:53 < zyp> apart from flooding risk and shit, I'd say the main problem with basements is that it's a pain to get heavy stuff there if you have to carry it down stairs
2020-08-12T00:44:45 < zyp> on the other hand, if you're living on a hill, a basement garage opening to ground level on one side of the house could work out well
2020-08-12T00:45:39 < ds2> wouldn't one of those storm shelter door things plus a winch/crane work well for loading?
2020-08-12T00:46:53 < zyp> saw a 
2020-08-12T00:47:04 < zyp> saw an apartment complex with something like that the other day
2020-08-12T00:47:12 < qyx> the only heavy things I needed to put in a basements were two 1500L water tanks
2020-08-12T00:47:17 < zyp> I think they have a power transformer in the basement
2020-08-12T00:47:57 < zyp> qyx, need is relative, question is what you're gonna use basement for
2020-08-12T00:48:59 < ds2> a machine shop would be nice to have
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2020-08-12T00:50:24 < zyp> if I win the lottery or something, I'd like to build a house on a hill, with an underground workshop/garage/whatever in the hill, bunker style
2020-08-12T00:50:33 < zyp> with a port on the side of the hill
2020-08-12T00:50:48 < qyx> :D
2020-08-12T00:51:12 < ds2> isn't that like a mini Eagle Nest?
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2020-08-12T00:58:44 < t4nk_freenode> you should get your paws on M. Schumacher's mountain then
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2020-08-12T01:43:18 < jadew`> did you guys heard about the covid vaccine?
2020-08-12T01:43:30 < jadew`> Russia approved one today
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2020-08-12T03:15:36 < ds2> wonder if ST will go RiscV if NV buys ARM
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2020-08-12T03:37:26 < Cracki> why would they buy ARM
2020-08-12T03:37:39 < Cracki> 32 billion wew
2020-08-12T03:37:41 < Cracki> inflation
2020-08-12T03:38:13 < Cracki> maybe nvidia wants to enter the CPU market and kick intel's and amd's ass
2020-08-12T03:38:41 < Cracki> them buying mellanox was weird but I see why they did it
2020-08-12T03:42:03 < Cracki> nvidia "market value of $257 billion"
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2020-08-12T04:13:05 < R2COM> zyp so i see that in your interrupt.cpp, you basically used "Specialization" for templates, to derive type of the called interrupt
2020-08-12T04:13:17 < R2COM> Specialization, as in c++ term
2020-08-12T04:13:37 < R2COM> i mean template with specialization
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2020-08-12T09:19:47 < zyp> R2COM, yes
2020-08-12T09:20:29 < zyp> like I said the other day, the main point of doing it that way is that I then get compile time checking that the interrupt name I try to define is part of the IRQ enum
2020-08-12T09:21:21 < jpa-> (the real reason is that you should be friends with your compiler, and the more templates you feed to g++, the happier it is)
2020-08-12T09:23:03 < jpa-> (downside is that if one of the templates has gone bad, g++ will vomit everything all over your console)
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2020-08-12T09:41:03 < emeb_mac> eeeewwww
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2020-08-12T10:11:35 < zyp> haha
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2020-08-12T11:41:50 < rapha> jadew`: imho (and PaulFertser might disagree) this is Putin trying to show the world how much more awesome Russia is than the US of A. Is the vaccine ready, who knows, we'll see...
2020-08-12T11:42:28 < rapha> Cracki: there was the interesting suggestion by someone that the UK government should get off its fucking ass and make a counter-offer for ARM.
2020-08-12T11:44:14 < rapha> I for one would welcome my new Nvidia-only desktop PC overlord as well as my new RISC V based ST MCUs if those things do indeed happen. Capitalism has fucked us all anyways, might as well enjoy the ride to hell.
2020-08-12T11:47:28 < specing> IBM POWER9, rapha 
2020-08-12T11:48:07 < rapha> specing: as a core for ST MCUs? Why the heck would ST want that?
2020-08-12T11:49:06 < PaulFertser> rapha: I would guess if any country leader would be told by the scientists he/she trusts that a good vaccine is ready, he/she would do about the same as putin did.
2020-08-12T11:51:12 < jpa-> and some leaders would do it even if the scientists said "vaccine is ready but we haven't studied it enough, it might have harmful side effects we have no idea about"
2020-08-12T11:51:35 < PaulFertser> rapha: and regardless of the "bigger picture" (so-called geo-politics etc) the vaccine with the shortest time-to-market is really advantageous in many ways.
2020-08-12T11:53:44 < PaulFertser> jpa-: true, you can't trust putin's word of course. So far I get an impression those in power consider it to be tested good enough, for whatever reason.
2020-08-12T11:54:36 < jpa-> i also think that with russia's level of healthcare, the outcome for that country may be better with a vaccine, even if it has some side effects
2020-08-12T11:56:55 < PaulFertser> I'm not sure how bad the level of healthcare is here really. Have nothing to compare against, but I guess it's far better than, say, most of the India. Also, living in Moscow certainly doesn't give a reasonable picture concerning the whole country. I wonder if Thorn can share his experience.
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2020-08-12T12:25:01 < rapha> PaulFertser: sure, i didn't want to say _any_ country leader would not do the same. I'm just saying that Putin, who loves to get his picture taken while riding on horseback half-naked, might also do it a little prematurely because he enjoys a good gamble.
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2020-08-12T12:26:53 < rapha> My girlfriend is from India btw and her uncle's family (who live in a declared-"red" zone) have been living scared shitless for months now, sometimes not even leaving the house for groceries. So yeah, these days I think I'd rather live in Russia than in India.
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2020-08-12T12:28:13 < jpa-> at least they don't have diarrhea
2020-08-12T12:29:09 < PaulFertser> rapha: I have an impression in this specific case there might be an element of gambling, yes, but he's not going to lose much in the worst case, and going to win a lot in the good case.
2020-08-12T12:31:40 < rapha> agreed
2020-08-12T12:32:08 < rapha> also i'm sure he loves the media attention to be drawn away from the whole thawing reindeer carcass debacle
2020-08-12T12:33:43 < specing> isn't russia one of the few countries to gain from climate change?
2020-08-12T12:38:02 < karlp> pretty mixed for most countried,
2020-08-12T12:38:26 < karlp> even arctic places are like, "yay, warm, more growing time" but "boo, ecosystem is all different now"
2020-08-12T12:41:19 < rapha> specing: except for thawing carcasses in the not so perma permafrost i guess
2020-08-12T12:41:39 < specing> why are thawing carcasses such a problem?
2020-08-12T12:43:38 < rapha> old pathogens
2020-08-12T12:46:43 < karlp> antrhax, anthrax everywhere
2020-08-12T12:46:47 < karlp> and botulism
2020-08-12T12:47:25 < karlp> I know of a project here a few years ago to try and find old farmers to check for any nearly gone oral history of where they had buried cases on their land
2020-08-12T12:48:08 < karlp> after we had a few cases crop up after some "renovations" on an old farm
2020-08-12T12:48:58 < rapha> spanish flu is another possibility
2020-08-12T12:49:08 < rapha> and who-knows-what from the mammoth-hunting days
2020-08-12T12:55:02 < PaulFertser> flu should be easy though, vaccines are well-developed.
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2020-08-12T12:58:56 < rapha> it's a massive effort to keep them updated
2020-08-12T12:59:12 < karlp> the changing ecosystem is a serious wildcard though, like, "oh yay, we can catch tuna now"
2020-08-12T12:59:30 < rapha> we still have tuna left to catch?
2020-08-12T12:59:31 < karlp> but "uymm, where are all the birds? oh yeah, the specific fish they were eating is all gone now"
2020-08-12T12:59:53 < PaulFertser> BTW, I'm getting vaccinated with a locally developed and produced flu vaccine every year. For free. Easily.
2020-08-12T13:00:25 < rapha> there's a lot of work behind that, is all i'm saying
2020-08-12T13:00:46 < PaulFertser> Once I had vaccinated in a medical van near a metro station. Another I rode to the nearest big park and they had a big special tent there for medical check-ups and vaccinations.
2020-08-12T13:01:00 < PaulFertser> rapha: indeed, no arguing that
2020-08-12T13:03:19 < Steffanx> I never get vaccinated. Just had the standard vaccines as a kid and that's it
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2020-08-12T13:03:28 < Steffanx> But i recall we talked about this before ;)
2020-08-12T13:03:40 < rapha> will get myself flu vacc'd for the first time this year
2020-08-12T13:04:02 < rapha> rly don't need regular flu, too, if i should catch covid at some point
2020-08-12T13:06:57 < Steffanx> I did get a letter once, because apparently they decided I fit in the "target group" for a free vaccine. Im not even sure why. 
2020-08-12T13:07:33 < Steffanx> Maybe because I had some asthma as a kid..  20+ years ago.
2020-08-12T13:29:23 < jadew`> Steffanx, but you're going to get the russian anti-covid vaccine, right?
2020-08-12T13:30:23 < jadew`> you should advise everyone you know to get vaccinated
2020-08-12T13:30:29 < jadew`> because if they do, you don't have to :D
2020-08-12T13:44:45 < Steffanx> Hm
2020-08-12T14:09:05 < Cracki> I'd post german numbers but numbers are nazi
2020-08-12T14:13:18 < Cracki> I guess that TRAIN has left the station. 1 in 400 got the stuff so far. and if you're under 40, your chance of dying is 1 in 1000-6000 so far. 50s: 1/125. 80+: 1/3. every time i mention it, people welcome death but are deathly afraid of "lasting health effects", which they can't quantify. let's say "lasting damage" shall be 10x death number. still...
2020-08-12T14:42:50 < zyp> 11:29:09 < PaulFertser> rapha: I have an impression in this specific case there might be an element of gambling, yes, but he's not going to lose much in the worst case, and going to win a lot in the good case.
2020-08-12T14:43:05 < zyp> let's hope it works out better than Pandemrix then
2020-08-12T14:47:04 < PaulFertser> "They found no correlation between vaccination and narcolepsy."
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2020-08-12T15:02:51 < Cracki> they could mean "we found evidence that there is no correlation" or they could mean "I didn't find my car keys"
2020-08-12T15:04:22 < Cracki> WP> and found a 6.6-fold increased risk among children and youths, resulting in 3.6 additional cases of narcolepsy per 100,000 vaccinated subjects.[6]
2020-08-12T15:04:53 < Cracki> i.e. baseline is 0.64/100k cases
2020-08-12T15:06:12 < Cracki> at that rate they'd have to get information on a million cases or something
2020-08-12T15:08:00 < Cracki> (yes, just the (discovered) narcoleptic cases, vs. all vaccinations)
2020-08-12T15:08:43 < Cracki> over/underreporting on either side of the table would probably affect that result
2020-08-12T15:43:42 < PaulFertser> BrainDamage1: (brussels sprouts) tried it your way today, it's really nice indeed, thanks a lot for sharing!
2020-08-12T15:50:28 < rapha> Cracki: try vividly explaining the lasting health effects of having been on ECMO
2020-08-12T15:51:01 < rapha> new way of making brussels sprouts? do tell!
2020-08-12T15:54:10 < PaulFertser> rapha: basically, cut in half, fry the bottoms with cinnamon and salt, then add a bit of broth (I used plain water for obvious reasons) and cover the pan to let it fully cook on low heat.
2020-08-12T15:54:18 < rapha> who here is the author of Ivory/Tower?
2020-08-12T15:54:32 < rapha> cinnamon?! that sounds interesting indeed!
2020-08-12T15:54:33 < PaulFertser> rapha: srk uses it
2020-08-12T15:56:10 < rapha> srk: the Ivory/Tower book talks about an inofficial F042 port, but that that MCU can only handle a very limited stack size. Would you say it's feasible to use for a firmware that needs to handle 3 PWM and 4 TSC channels?
2020-08-12T15:56:45 < rapha> PaulFertser: :thx * 2
2020-08-12T15:56:54 < rapha> PaulFertser: what is an obvious reason of not using broth?
2020-08-12T15:57:04 < Steffanx> Oh, are you going for haksell?
2020-08-12T15:57:25 < rapha> Steffanx: not sure. I traditionally hate Haskell because I suck at math. But Ivory/Tower doesn't look so bad.
2020-08-12T15:57:58 < rapha> Still reading up on lcms3 and also trying to make heads and tails out of the TSC refman.
2020-08-12T15:58:09 < PaulFertser> rapha: meat broth is out of consideration because I'm a lacto-ovo-vegeterian. And vegetable broth is unlikely to be adding any value in this case.
2020-08-12T15:59:34 < rapha> the first i get
2020-08-12T15:59:45 < rapha> (same here btw)
2020-08-12T15:59:50 < rapha> the second i'll have to ponder
2020-08-12T16:02:21 < PaulFertser> And I didn't have vegetable broth handy anyway. And boiling some other vegetables just for the purpose of adding a little bit of the resulting liquid felt like an overkill.
2020-08-12T16:02:35 < PaulFertser> (I'm a lazy cook)
2020-08-12T16:02:44 < PaulFertser> Lazy everything actually
2020-08-12T16:03:44 < srk> rapha: that's supported now by https://github.com/HaskellEmbedded/ivory-tower-stm32-generated#compatibility-matrix and it adjusts task stack size - if it fits depends on number of tasks needed
2020-08-12T16:04:13 < srk> rapha: I still don't have PWM / ADC abstracted as it is quite diffrent accross devices but soon 
2020-08-12T16:06:37 < srk> currently it's kind-of heuristic according to https://github.com/sorki/ivory-tower-stm32/blob/data-stm32/tower-freertos-stm32/src/Ivory/OS/FreeRTOS/Tower/STM32.hs#L279 since computing max stack size from actual code is difficult
2020-08-12T16:07:04 < PaulFertser> rapha: and braising in this case doesn't require much liquid anyway
2020-08-12T16:09:48 < srk> fly time!
2020-08-12T16:17:42 < rapha> lazy everything usually == good programmer
2020-08-12T16:19:14 < rapha> srk: okay, i was unable to parse "kind-of heuristic", but the rest sounds nice. how difficult (if you're new to both Haskell and bare-metal programming) would it be to implement something like that PWM/ADC abstraction?
2020-08-12T16:21:06 < srk> you can ignore abstraction for now and just try configuring registers for 042, there's already code somewhere for both PWM and ADC but F4 only
2020-08-12T16:21:10  * srk runs, bbl
2020-08-12T16:21:55 < rapha> that sounds kind of achievable
2020-08-12T16:21:58 < rapha> thx for the info
2020-08-12T16:22:00 < rapha> and godspeed
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2020-08-12T17:51:06 < Cracki> rapha, watch that episode of House MD where they have a cat that can predict death. people needing ventilation or ecmo aren't determined by random coin toss from general population. they have a lot higher chance of having preexisting conditions, so they are more fragile in general. don't make me throw math books at you
2020-08-12T17:54:04 < Cracki> also watch that episode of "M*A*S*H" where they have patients with the shits and they give them hypertonic saline and they all die, until someone figures out that that "therapy" wasn't the best idea
2020-08-12T17:55:38 < Cracki> epidemics and pandemics can't be understood from "isolated incidents" and heartbreaking fates. they need to be understood as statistics. it's cruel not to because more people die if you can't keep your head cool.
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2020-08-12T18:03:35 < Cracki> wow that's to bicycle-decoration-phobic
2020-08-12T18:03:38 < Cracki> *so
2020-08-12T18:04:25 < Cracki> lol TIL: they do it to cars too
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2020-08-12T19:10:42 < srk> rapha: I can generate peripheral definitions for 042 for both PWM / TSC so you don't have to do that manually
2020-08-12T19:13:49 < srk> rapha: maybe it will end up like that since abstracting timers and adc is problematic as they can be configured in tons different of ways, abstraction would only cover few common setups which would make it not that useful
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2020-08-12T19:21:53 < PaulFertser> srk: what kind of flying was that?
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2020-08-12T19:26:30 < srk> PaulFertser: boring and not-so-boring ;) revived old x666 pixhawk based autonomous quad so tested that. and some fpv madness with 5" one :)
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2020-08-12T19:36:17 < PaulFertser> srk: oh cool :) I'm still struggling with controlling a CP heli
2020-08-12T19:37:48 < srk> line of sight is hard
2020-08-12T19:40:41 < srk> for some motivation https://youtu.be/coBR0fpC57M?t=160
2020-08-12T19:44:46 < srk> bunch of stm32s in action :D
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2020-08-12T20:13:02 < PaulFertser> srk: when piloting in LoS are you flying in attitude (acro) control mode?
2020-08-12T20:14:00 < srk> I'm noob LoS pilot so stabilized only
2020-08-12T20:14:17 < srk> need to practice :)
2020-08-12T20:14:56 < srk> when I've started there was no fpv so I was able to acro LoS a bit 
2020-08-12T20:16:25 < srk> like I can still fly acro fpv quad LoS when needed but not at the level of 3d pilots or that guy 
2020-08-12T20:17:21 < srk> typical 5" is quite small and hard too see, mostly black.. leds help a bit
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2020-08-12T20:23:11 < srk> PaulFertser: this has some CP helis iirc https://sourceforge.net/projects/crrcsim/
2020-08-12T20:26:38 < PaulFertser> srk: last time I tried it, there was just one heli, and it even didn't have negative pitch. And it wasn't flying anywhere close to a real one :( 
2020-08-12T20:28:20 < srk> hmm, yeah, it was a different sim but I can't remember the name
2020-08-12T20:29:38 < Cracki> srk, peculiar acrobatics in that video. how much is the pilot's skill and how much is "locked down" degrees of freedom that make it keep the same orientation during all turns?
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2020-08-12T20:30:32 < Cracki> no no, it's acting like a flying rc car... I guess it could be just his personal preference as to how he's driving it
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2020-08-12T20:30:49 < srk> Cracki: full manual/acro
2020-08-12T20:32:05 < Cracki> I guess I saw too many newbies flying their drones to be familiar with what it _can_ look like to fly these things
2020-08-12T20:32:15 < srk> there's a heading lock mode but it won't allow you to do all that
2020-08-12T20:32:28 < Cracki> I think a heading lock is the opposite of what I see here
2020-08-12T20:32:52 < srk> yeah, no lock there, just skill :)
2020-08-12T20:32:58 < Cracki> if that means heading locked to compass
2020-08-12T20:33:23 < Cracki> this looks like it faces where it's going, or some variant of that. like it's drifting when it's making a turn
2020-08-12T20:34:51 < PaulFertser> Cracki: have you seen heli 3d acro? I think that's the most impressive.
2020-08-12T20:35:38 < Cracki> helicopters weren't on my mind actually
2020-08-12T20:35:43 < Cracki> but they do fun things too
2020-08-12T20:36:00 < srk> Cracki: looks like what I meant is called head free (or care free :)) or https://ardupilot.org/copter/docs/simpleandsuper-simple-modes.html
2020-08-12T20:37:09 < srk> "Head Free - When enabled yaw has no effect on pitch/roll inputs"
2020-08-12T20:37:19 < Cracki> looks like a dragonfly on drugs https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AXSfFLGeVZA
2020-08-12T20:40:15 < Cracki> quadrotor but with the tiltable blades of a helicopter, I imagine that would be quite acrobatic
2020-08-12T20:40:32 < srk> just looking for the vid
2020-08-12T20:40:34 < srk> of it
2020-08-12T20:40:54 < Cracki> lawn mower finish
2020-08-12T20:41:25 < srk> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TnGhEInTXYc
2020-08-12T20:41:39 < PaulFertser> srk: impressive video but nothing can beat helis.
2020-08-12T20:43:18 < srk> :D
2020-08-12T20:43:21 < srk> yup
2020-08-12T20:44:18 < srk> PaulFertser: now I wonder how does it even yaw.. 
2020-08-12T20:44:58 < PaulFertser> srk: with headless mode your yaw input is processed as usual. But all the other inputs are processed in the direction it was originally heading when taking off.
2020-08-12T20:45:15 < srk> I mean the CP 3d quad
2020-08-12T20:45:31 < srk> cause typical quad just spins two motors faster to turn
2020-08-12T20:45:47 < PaulFertser> srk: and here it can just give more pitch the blades.
2020-08-12T20:46:18 < srk> hmm :)
2020-08-12T20:46:25 < srk> doesn't compute
2020-08-12T20:47:08 < srk> btw there are also 3d quads that just reverse motor direction in flight
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2020-08-12T20:47:34 < PaulFertser> srk: when you spin two motors faster you get more thrust. And when you give more pitch to a motor that's spinning with stable RPM you get more thrust. So not much of a difference.
2020-08-12T20:50:07 < Cracki> wew. it can "glide" and land with no motor power, just blade control
2020-08-12T20:50:54 < srk> PaulFertser: but you don't really want to gain thrust when yawing, so the other two go down, and you get rotation due to two CW or CCW going faster 
2020-08-12T20:51:12 < Cracki> now I'm wondering why I haven't seen pitchable blades on quadrotors before. it seems superior in every way
2020-08-12T20:51:26 < srk> weird, my mental model of quad yaw is probably wrong :)
2020-08-12T20:51:27 < Cracki> and this video is from 2013 even
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2020-08-12T20:51:38 < srk> it's fragile
2020-08-12T20:51:41 < srk> only downside
2020-08-12T20:51:52 < bitmask> woo, 10TB drive ordered
2020-08-12T20:52:04 < srk> you can slam fpv quads quite a lot and you only break props
2020-08-12T20:52:10 < Steffanx> Moneyed westerner bitmask 
2020-08-12T20:52:24 < srk> you crash CP heli/quad once and it's done
2020-08-12T20:52:28 < bitmask> cant wait to fill it up and then it fails
2020-08-12T20:53:02 < aandrew> jadew`: what is the thing you say to someone who’s mom died? Here you say “I’m sorry for your loss”
2020-08-12T20:54:15 < PaulFertser> srk: and so the other two motors would get less pitch and so less thrust.
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2020-08-12T20:55:09 < PaulFertser> srk: most of my CP heli flights do not end in a sane landing, most of the time it's falling in grass one way or the other :)
2020-08-12T20:55:30 < PaulFertser> srk: but it's a tiny v977, not a real big nice one, so yes, you're actually right about i.t
2020-08-12T20:56:20 < Cracki> srk, how done? I mean, I guess the thingies that translate pitch to the wings could break, but what else that would be worse than on a fixed wing quad?
2020-08-12T20:57:16 < PaulFertser> Cracki: btw, 4 servos here on this quad, 4 motors. 4 servos on a heli and just two motors.
2020-08-12T20:57:45 < Cracki> 4 motors, so one per rotor in addition to the servo for pitch?
2020-08-12T20:57:56 < Cracki> I guess that saves you from having to run belts
2020-08-12T20:58:20 < PaulFertser> Ah, this one actually has one or two motor but with belts, yes.
2020-08-12T20:58:29 < Cracki> at those speeds I'd imagine them trying to... flee from centrifugal force
2020-08-12T20:58:33 < PaulFertser> A heli has just one belt.
2020-08-12T20:59:21 < srk> PaulFertser: need to think about the (rpm or pitch) vs thrust thing - like they are related so it actually makes sense but my mental model was based on countering the rotation, like tail rotor does on heli so it doesn't spin due to main rotor
2020-08-12T20:59:32 < srk> or like why you use 2 CW and 2 CCW props on quad
2020-08-12T21:00:03 < srk> Cracki: servos can break easily as well, there are expensive ones with metal gears but still
2020-08-12T21:00:13 < Cracki> heh
2020-08-12T21:00:18 < Cracki> oh well carry some extra :P
2020-08-12T21:00:25 < srk> tricopters suck due to this
2020-08-12T21:00:34 < Cracki> I'd imagine the rods and joints breaking before the servo
2020-08-12T21:00:38 < srk> one hit to servo mounted motor and it's done
2020-08-12T21:00:59 < srk> hopefully, I don't fly helis so can't tell
2020-08-12T21:01:01 < Cracki> what is "servo mounted motor"
2020-08-12T21:01:12 < PaulFertser> The tail of tri-copter
2020-08-12T21:01:26 < Cracki> uh, the motor would actually be mounted so it can move around??
2020-08-12T21:01:36 < Cracki> tales
2020-08-12T21:01:37 < srk> yeah, that's how it yaws
2020-08-12T21:01:42 < Cracki> *yawing*
2020-08-12T21:01:46 < srk> :))
2020-08-12T21:11:03 < upgrdman> https://i.imgur.com/D9Er6J1.gifv
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2020-08-12T21:17:35 < Cracki> itchy horns. he should have worn a rubber... earlier
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2020-08-12T23:53:13 < qyx> GALILEAN work mode
2020-08-12T23:53:25 < qyx> doesn't china know how is the thing called?
2020-08-12T23:58:55 < Steffanx> Maybe its a dongified-a-like word
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2020-08-13T00:44:18 < rapha> Cracki: my argument wasn't about statistics though, it was about psychology. I wanted to suggest you to try scaring people into taking the situation seriously by giving details of what it means to be on ventilation or ECMO.
2020-08-13T00:44:29 < rapha> And for the record, I've seen every single House episode.
2020-08-13T00:45:31 < rapha> Unfortunately objective reason and logic are only well-developed in a statistically less-significant-than desirable portion of the population in most countries.
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2020-08-13T00:47:51 < rapha> srk: That would be really awesome! The program my board is currently running is https://gist.github.com/sixtyfive/db48cd143a4514d50a3ea3d756186ed0. Still reading up on ADC.
2020-08-13T00:49:46 < qyx> whoa TTN has fair usage policy for 30sec of air time per 24h
2020-08-13T00:49:55 < qyx> I am starting to seriously thing the whole concept is broken
2020-08-13T00:49:59 < qyx> *think
2020-08-13T00:59:32 < rapha> srk: that looks a lot like the part of southern germany i grew up in, except for the number plates
2020-08-13T01:06:20 < rapha> Cracki: those larger helis like the one you linked me scare the shit out of me. as much as i love the small indoor CP's, those bigger ones are basically flying chainsaws and one wrong twitch of the stick and you can easily take someone's head of, could also be your own.
2020-08-13T01:06:43 < rapha> just last year there was a kid and his dad in the US in some park where that actually happened.
2020-08-13T01:18:33 < rapha> PaulFertser: mCPX here btw :)
2020-08-13T01:19:06 < PaulFertser> rapha: and what are you using to learn piloting?
2020-08-13T01:19:48 < PaulFertser> rapha: and what Tx?
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2020-08-13T01:21:26 < PaulFertser> rapha: I have a feeling silly RTF Tx of my v977 makes it much harder to pilot because it doesn't allow setting any "exponents".
2020-08-13T01:23:02 < PaulFertser> When searching the Internet I managed to find just two lethal rc heli cases.
2020-08-13T01:25:52 < karlp> qyx: re TTN heh. it's almost like lolrence's "lora is shit" and anything involving public lora was always goign to be a trainwreck
2020-08-13T01:26:27 < karlp> PaulFertser: were they both "heli lannded on someone" ?
2020-08-13T01:26:50 < karlp> or was one "heli bumped someone to destraction and they crashed car/fell into oncoming traffic sort of thing?
2020-08-13T01:27:46 < PaulFertser> karlp: main rotor blades cutting neck arteries iirc.
2020-08-13T01:27:47 < rapha> PaulFertser: i started off on a Blade 120S BNF until i was able to hover that and set it back down. but the transmitter sucked and the fact that it wasn't CP sucked. then i got an old DX7 basically as a gift on top of a used mCPX. much better control but took me several crashes and lots of superglue to get back to being able to hover and land. got a second mCPX after that which remained crash-free and which i
2020-08-13T01:27:48 < rapha> used to learn how to do circles CW and CCW. that's kind of like the skill level that i'm stuck at atm.
2020-08-13T01:28:00 < karlp> PaulFertser: on an rc heli, nice.
2020-08-13T01:28:47 < PaulFertser> rapha: banked circles or flat?
2020-08-13T01:28:57 < rapha> PaulFertser: what you said about your RTF TX reminds me a lot about my own troubles. but less because of too few settings and more because of the mechanical quality of the sticks.
2020-08-13T01:29:23 < rapha> flat circles only PaulFertser ... whenever i try banked circles my brain goes "shit shit wtf" and then the heli crashes into something.
2020-08-13T01:29:53 < rapha> karlp: the thing i mentioned earlier was a clean decapitation. not just neck arteries.
2020-08-13T01:30:00 < PaulFertser> rapha: I removed some play from the sticks by adding some plastic here and there. I can't see how it can be really bad, it's just a stick attached to a potentiometer...
2020-08-13T01:31:45 < rapha> true, but the DX7 (not sure about others) has _metal_ sticks, not plastic ones. they have more mass, they're longer, you stop putting your thumbs *on* them and instead hold them between thumb and index finger - can't rly describe it, you just feel more "in control".
2020-08-13T01:32:30 < rapha> i have the old version of that TX - perhaps they got better, perhaps they got worse in build quality. no clue.
2020-08-13T01:32:58 < rapha> the sad thing though is that there's not a lot of RX boards that work with it
2020-08-13T01:33:35 < rapha> i don't think i'd go with Spektrum again
2020-08-13T01:34:19 < rapha> really wanting to build a balsa wood plane and stick a Spektrum RX into that and see if the heli learning will translate to that in any way
2020-08-13T01:34:53 < rapha> guess i could just use the broken mCPX's RX board somehow
2020-08-13T01:35:31 < rapha> but would have to figure out a way to get different firmware onto it
2020-08-13T01:36:10 < rapha> srk: any idea if ArduPilot would _some_how work with an older Spektrum TX?
2020-08-13T01:38:16 < rapha> okay, nevermind https://ardupilot.org/copter/docs/common-spektrum-rc.html ... seems it
2020-08-13T01:38:18 < rapha> does
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2020-08-13T07:07:29 < englishman> rapha: FPV is much easier
2020-08-13T07:18:31 < scrts> did anyone try to transmit component YPbPr video over 3x 5.8GHz VTX'es used for FPV?
2020-08-13T07:18:42 < scrts> I wonder if that would work
2020-08-13T07:19:06 < scrts> especially for higher resolutions, e.g. 1080p30 (Analog HD video)
2020-08-13T07:40:58 < englishman> could work if crosstalk is not too bad, is bandwidth around the same?
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2020-08-13T11:58:10 < rapha> sick https://www.nature.com/articles/s41586-020-2010-9
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2020-08-13T12:20:55 < rapha> srk: "For F4 Discovery it is recommended to re-flash ST-Link programmer with BlackMagic probe and add UART passthru according to F4 Discovery hacking section" – I'll assume that goes for a pretty minimal DIY-F0 board, as well, and that it'd be relatively futile to attempt with a stock STLinkV2?
2020-08-13T12:22:03 < srk> rapha: o/ stock could work if you're using it with openOCD I think
2020-08-13T12:22:37 < rapha> oh okay then i'll try ... only have 1 stlink rn and would like to keep it stock. a second one is one the way from china tho :)
2020-08-13T12:23:05 < rapha> surprisingly all the deps were available on Solus
2020-08-13T12:23:07 < srk> blackmagic just makes it a bit more convenient since you don't need to run any app, you just point gdb target extended remote to e.g. /dev/ttyACM0 
2020-08-13T12:23:18 < rapha> so no need to power up the room-warming gaming pc :)
2020-08-13T12:23:25 < srk> rapha: what's Solus? :) 
2020-08-13T12:24:03 < rapha> it's a very non-technical-users oriented linux distro that i use for my laptop and install for everyone who wants linux but has no interest in fiddling with it.
2020-08-13T12:24:09 < rapha> getsol.us
2020-08-13T12:24:12 < srk> rapha: I'm afraid the book instructions are a bit outdated, but if you have Nix it's quite easy to get it running with https://github.com/HaskellEmbedded/ivory-tower-nix/
2020-08-13T12:24:30 < srk> I see, nice
2020-08-13T12:25:14 < srk> like you can install Nix pretty much anywhere so it should be work on that as well (not tested since I'm on NixOS)
2020-08-13T12:26:19 < srk> I'm in the middle of updating the complete stack to ghc 8.10, will update the book instructions afterwards and switch data-stm32 branches of the git projects to master so it's not that confusing
2020-08-13T12:26:49 < karlp> rapha: there's absolutely no need to use black magic firmware for most of those instructions
2020-08-13T12:27:29 < rapha> hmm
2020-08-13T12:27:29 < karlp> you just replace "gdb target ext-remote /dev/ttyusbblah", with "openocd -f interface/stlink.cfg -f target/stm32f0.cfg & gdb target ext-remote :3333"
2020-08-13T12:27:42 < karlp> that's just tech wankery leaking over into docs
2020-08-13T12:27:45 < srk> cool, will add that to instructions I guess
2020-08-13T12:27:55 < srk> <3 :D
2020-08-13T12:27:57 < rapha> trying out `make blink-test` and it's downloading GHC, even though /usr/bin/ghc is present.
2020-08-13T12:28:14 < karlp> black magic means you don't have to worry about running openocd somewhere, but that's about it.
2020-08-13T12:28:35 < rapha> oh sweet, thanks karlp :)
2020-08-13T12:28:39 < srk> rapha: try the Nix way, stack build is not really supported anymore
2020-08-13T12:28:43 < karlp> and especially for beginneres, it's just confusing thigns for no reason, and encouraging people to break things that don't need to be broken
2020-08-13T12:28:59 < PaulFertser> Or even "tar ext | openocd -f ... -c "gdb_port pipe"
2020-08-13T12:29:03 < PaulFertser> Or something like that.
2020-08-13T12:29:38 < karlp> yeah, I've no personal experience with that, and I like just leaving oocd running anyway, so it can do trace things, and so on.
2020-08-13T12:29:47 < rapha> srk: i would love if it worked with my system haskell installation without requiring nix or any other package manager. all the deps are already installed.
2020-08-13T12:30:00 < srk> rapha: which ghc?
2020-08-13T12:30:16 < rapha> srk: The Glorious Glasgow Haskell Compilation System, version 8.2.2
2020-08-13T12:30:36 < rapha> oh, might be too new. perhaps that's why it decided to download its own?
2020-08-13T12:31:04 < srk> let me check
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2020-08-13T12:31:46 < srk> rapha: the thing is that it tries to use Stack to provide the environment separate from the system one
2020-08-13T12:32:51 < rapha> also, it looks like there's an expectation of https://github.com/galoisinc/ivory-tower-base/ being present, which it is not.
2020-08-13T12:33:01 < rapha> what's the rationale behind requiring a separate environment?
2020-08-13T12:33:06 < srk> like it cannot really be built from hackage which is the issue ^
2020-08-13T12:33:36 < srk> because it's no longer maintained by original author (Galois) so you would need to clone bunch of repos and use cabal v2 and its cabal.project to provide the deps
2020-08-13T12:33:51 < rapha> sorry, "cannot be built from hackage" didn't parse. is hackage a package repository or something?
2020-08-13T12:34:17 < srk> I can generate a script for that I think but still, with Nix it's way easier
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2020-08-13T12:34:43 < srk> rapha: yep, hackage is repo for haskell packages - https://hackage.haskell.org/packages/search?terms=ivory
2020-08-13T12:34:58 < rapha> ah okay
2020-08-13T12:35:00 < rapha> hmm
2020-08-13T12:35:15 < srk> when you look at some of these file https://github.com/HaskellEmbedded/ivory-tower-nix/tree/master/nix
2020-08-13T12:35:42 < srk> they are pinned to exact revisions, kind-of a release of the complete stack which works together
2020-08-13T12:35:50 < rapha> nix is something that will definitely never be available on Solus. so the big gaming PC it would be. definitely not something for this time of day, it'll have to wait then until Fr to Sa night
2020-08-13T12:36:09 < rapha> ouch
2020-08-13T12:36:13 < rapha> that's how fragile it is?
2020-08-13T12:36:16 < srk> yeah, I avoided compiling as well
2020-08-13T12:36:33 < srk> not really, it's due to advances to support all the stm32s, recent GHCs 
2020-08-13T12:36:54 < rapha> i see
2020-08-13T12:37:21 < srk> Galois doesn't really care about most of the stack, only Ivory repo is updated (sometimes). they had a grant for the project which ended 
2020-08-13T12:37:22 < rapha> okay, fair enough, if nix is what you use for development then i'll try to fall in line with that, once it's cool enough for using the ArchLinux box.
2020-08-13T12:37:37 < rapha> sad thing, that
2020-08-13T12:37:40 < srk> yup, should work well
2020-08-13T12:37:54 < rapha> so many good projects get started with grants and then never fully make it off the ground when funding ends
2020-08-13T12:38:17 < rapha> gf is also having to look for a new job because of that
2020-08-13T12:38:30 < srk> hah, this actually made it off the ground
2020-08-13T12:38:31 < srk> literaly
2020-08-13T12:38:46 < rapha> wait
2020-08-13T12:38:54 < rapha> your quadcopter runs haskell?
2020-08-13T12:38:57 < srk> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bIjKFqnsnT0
2020-08-13T12:39:05 < srk> not now, but it can :)
2020-08-13T12:39:16 < rapha> i mean
2020-08-13T12:39:23 < rapha> you have haskell-firmware for it?
2020-08-13T12:39:48 < rapha> oh! https://smaccmpilot.org/! cool!
2020-08-13T12:39:49 < srk> yep, that's the smaccmpilot
2020-08-13T12:40:08 < srk> basically a port of arducopter to ivory/tower to prove the concept
2020-08-13T12:40:28 < srk> which is why it worked only with f405 / f427 originally (PixHawk :))
2020-08-13T12:41:07 < rapha> what's the difference between standalone flight and demo flight? the former is by gps and the latter includes obstacle avoidance and such?
2020-08-13T12:41:17 < srk> not sure
2020-08-13T12:41:26 < rapha> "Demo flight on the other hand requires additional hardware on top of what is needed for stand-alone flight, such as a Pixy cam and a TK1"
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2020-08-13T12:41:52 < srk> ah yeah, there was SeL4 computer for video streaming or something like that
2020-08-13T12:42:12 < rapha> that little copter is carrying a lot of hardware man
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2020-08-13T12:42:59 < srk> the repo was archived recently https://github.com/GaloisInc/smaccmpilot-stm32f4 but there's bunch of good drivers there I want to migrate to ivory-tower-drivers - https://github.com/GaloisInc/smaccmpilot-stm32f4/tree/master/src/ivory-px4-hw/SMACCMPilot/Hardware
2020-08-13T12:43:22 < rapha> oh
2020-08-13T12:43:30 < rapha> including one for ADC apparently :)
2020-08-13T12:43:31 < srk> maybe even revive the whole copter firmware at some point
2020-08-13T12:44:02 < srk> that just uses one from Ivory.BSP.STM32.Peripheral.ADC, sec
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2020-08-13T12:45:49 < srk> it's mostly peripheral + registers definition https://github.com/sorki/ivory-tower-stm32/tree/master/ivory-bsp-stm32/src/Ivory/BSP/STM32/Peripheral/ADC
2020-08-13T12:45:55 < rapha> oh, about the docs (http://48.io/~rmarko/book/#distribution-specific-instructions) - perhaps you could mention somewhere that right now, it won't work without Nix?
2020-08-13T12:46:02 < srk> and few helper functions https://github.com/sorki/ivory-tower-stm32/blob/master/ivory-bsp-stm32/src/Ivory/BSP/STM32/Peripheral/ADC/Peripheral.hs#L62
2020-08-13T12:46:14 < srk> rapha: yep, on it
2020-08-13T12:46:21 < rapha> cool
2020-08-13T12:46:44 < rapha> bookmarking everything for now, until i have a working setup
2020-08-13T12:46:56 < srk> like I have this lol DSL for describing the project https://paste.rs/8ON.hs
2020-08-13T12:47:29 < srk> need to write a tool that could clone all that into some dir for exploring, indexing, grepping
2020-08-13T12:48:18  * rapha is a little lost rn ... looks like cool stuff, but also lots of stuff
2020-08-13T12:48:37 < karlp> you went further into it than most of us bothered ;)
2020-08-13T12:48:39 < srk> all the 'databranch' is due to support for all the STMs, I can switch all that to master since I'm slowly becoming the new upstream for the project anyway
2020-08-13T12:49:00 < karlp> you've got to be pretty keenly aboard the "haskell _is_ the right choice!" to want to continue with that sort of niche stuff ;)
2020-08-13T12:49:24 < rapha> as a matter of fact, i've stayed away from haskell with a ten-mile-radius so far
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2020-08-13T12:50:27 < rapha> but since i'm still trying out this whole stm32 landscape anyways
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2020-08-13T12:51:12 < srk> karlp: Ivory is more C like than Haskell, I would argue that it's actually easier to write without being a C pro
2020-08-13T12:51:21 < rapha> interestingly, Blink.hs is only 1 line shorter than my current breathe.c - where everyone who loves haskell always boasts about its compactness
2020-08-13T12:52:28 < srk> rapha: it gets reduced to one liners further :) but if you would do that you loose its educational value 
2020-08-13T12:53:28 < rapha> true
2020-08-13T12:54:27 < rapha> otoh, https://gist.github.com/sixtyfive/db48cd143a4514d50a3ea3d756186ed0 could also be written with fewer lines. alone the curly braces not on their own line would buy 13 lines :P
2020-08-13T12:54:37 < rapha> but then this is not code golf so i'll shut my mouth now :P
2020-08-13T12:54:48  * rapha should also do some actual work
2020-08-13T12:55:07 < srk> same o/ 
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2020-08-13T13:38:53 < karlp> well, this is new, ethernet no longer giving me link anymore.
2020-08-13T13:39:17 < karlp> I was watchdog resetting this board a lot yesterday, and pulling hte power, but, ... no more ethernet? that's news.
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2020-08-13T13:45:21 < Steffanx> Karl - human watchdog - p?
2020-08-13T13:46:41 < karlp> nah, running things to make it crash, and writing to regs to request resets
2020-08-13T13:46:58 < karlp> but fuck me, no clue why link's gone.
2020-08-13T13:47:34 < Steffanx> Your switch no longer likes the resets
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2020-08-13T13:55:53 < karlp> switch doesn't mind, moved the same cable elsewhere, no problem
2020-08-13T13:55:57 < karlp> gota private switch now.
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2020-08-13T14:23:43 < veverak> hmmm, anybody got stlink v3 with linux?
2020-08-13T14:24:20 < veverak> I wonder if it can be used to pass i2c/can/spi peripherals directly to linux as native peripherals
2020-08-13T14:24:30 < veverak> (so, I can access i2c from the stlink-v3 as /dev/i2c-X)
2020-08-13T14:25:00 < veverak> the API from manufacturer looks like it is ment for you to write your own way of using them?
2020-08-13T14:32:32 < karlp> I'm not aware of that being possible _yet_ but it should be in theory yes.
2020-08-13T14:32:50 < karlp> but only the ones on the stlink, not your own from the target or anything.
2020-08-13T14:33:53 < veverak> yeah, that should be fine
2020-08-13T14:34:05 < veverak> and I know it is possibel in theory, it's just that I do not really have time to ivnent this 
2020-08-13T14:34:18 < veverak> what I actually need, is to develop some code working with spi/i2c devices directly on linux laptop
2020-08-13T14:38:34 < karlp> you may get further with cypress/ftdi dongles sold for this purpose?
2020-08-13T14:39:16 < veverak> there are such?
2020-08-13T14:39:37 < srk> ask lubko, it's pretty hard with stupid x86 laptops. or use vga for i2c :D
2020-08-13T14:40:38 < karlp> https://www.ftdichip.com/Products/ICs/FT201X.html for instance
2020-08-13T14:40:57 < karlp> and https://www.ftdichip.com/Products/ICs/FT220X.html
2020-08-13T14:42:33 < karlp> https://github.com/kerrydwong/MCP2210-Library too, for linux yuserspace stuff
2020-08-13T14:42:57 < veverak> srk: I needed this yestrday +- so not a time to hackt it a lot
2020-08-13T14:43:00 < veverak> karlp: I see
2020-08-13T14:43:17 < veverak> well, I saw github project for using attiny board as i2c device that owrks with linux kernel drivers
2020-08-13T14:43:36 < veverak> if MCP2210 could cover SPI than I have everything that I need
2020-08-13T14:43:44 < veverak> (two devices is not a problem really)
2020-08-13T14:45:07 < karlp> kitprog3 does usb-2uart, i2c, spi and swd: https://www.cypress.com/documentation/development-kitsboards/kitprog-user-guide
2020-08-13T14:46:30 < veverak> holymoly MCp2210 devel kit is 3/4 of the price of stlink
2020-08-13T14:46:31 < veverak> fu them
2020-08-13T14:49:02 < srk> what's needed is something like slcan for i2c / spi so you can just run encapsulation over uart
2020-08-13T14:49:22 < karlp> you mean, a standardized method :)
2020-08-13T14:49:25 < srk> like buspirate
2020-08-13T14:49:26 < srk> pretty much
2020-08-13T14:49:32 < karlp> sif
2020-08-13T14:49:50 < srk> sif?
2020-08-13T14:51:24 < karlp> as if.
2020-08-13T14:51:38 < srk> firmata is close but no kernel drivers 
2020-08-13T14:53:02 < veverak> I mean, I've got tons of UART usb adapter, I've got i2c adapter to usb, only thing missing is SPI
2020-08-13T14:53:06 < veverak> or do not use SPI devices... :D
2020-08-13T14:53:45 < srk> y but why when MCU does all and more :)
2020-08-13T14:56:45 < karlp> r2commy was doing this a while back too, wanted to jsut do host sw, fuck having to deal with mcu fw.
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2020-08-13T16:35:21 < zyp> being able to do stuff on host for prototyping is pretty convenient
2020-08-13T16:35:54 < karlp> totally agree :)
2020-08-13T16:36:03 < karlp> just don'ðt know any good out of the box standard shit
2020-08-13T16:37:26 < zyp> ft232h/2232h/4232h seems decent enough if you want something host only
2020-08-13T16:38:14 < zyp> I usually take a more hybrid approach where I do part of the mcu firmware and throw on a usb wrapper for whatever comms I need
2020-08-13T16:38:55 < jpa-> a micropython board is handy for such tests also, simple to code even though it does run on the mcu
2020-08-13T16:39:50 < zyp> I guess another option is using a SBC with GPIO as host :)
2020-08-13T16:40:19 < karlp> right, so for veverak, "just use a linux board" would probably give them spi and i2c and uart ports, 
2020-08-13T16:40:32 < karlp> but... what are the options for doing that on a desktop, that just pluggable?
2020-08-13T16:41:47 < jpa-> ft232h is somewhat decent, but i find the software support lacking
2020-08-13T16:42:46 < jpa-> https://github.com/GlasgowEmbedded/glasgow#what-is-glasgow   might become something good also
2020-08-13T16:43:18 < karlp> that still needs hardware with an fpga on it though right? sot hat's a massive fucking hammer
2020-08-13T16:43:43 < karlp> it's nice that they're redoing buspirate, but better, but it's so funny to see them in their own little community with no-body else around
2020-08-13T16:46:45 < jpa-> i think it shows promise, but considering one can't even buy it yet, it's not surprising it's not very popular yet
2020-08-13T16:50:18 < zyp> I like the idea, but the hardware design seems weird
2020-08-13T16:54:41 < jpa-> what seems weird about it?
2020-08-13T16:55:24 < zyp> connectors and pinout
2020-08-13T16:57:17 < zyp> e.g. what's the point of shrouded 2.54mm when you've got an unshrouded 1.27mm next to it?
2020-08-13T16:57:48 < jpa-> https://www.crowdsupply.com/1bitsquared/glasgow   has a bit better images
2020-08-13T16:58:53 < zyp> and the pinout of the LVDS connector isn't gonna keep pair signals together in a ribbon cable
2020-08-13T16:59:18 < jpa-> hmm yeah, that part is weird
2020-08-13T17:01:39 < karlp> I'd say the normal 2.54 is all most of it's users will ever use
2020-08-13T17:01:50 < karlp> the 1.27mm was "we should of course break out everything"
2020-08-13T17:02:10 < zyp> yes
2020-08-13T17:02:30 < zyp> should have just put it on a ribbon connector instead, would be less fragile
2020-08-13T17:03:24 < karlp> the pairs should be across from each other for normal ribbons right?
2020-08-13T17:04:24 < karlp> love the trans flag on the user leds ;)
2020-08-13T17:05:12 < zyp> yes
2020-08-13T17:05:43 < jadew`> that glasglow shit sounds a lot like my own project from 6 years ago
2020-08-13T17:06:04 < karlp> jadew`: aiui, everything in the world existed on your desk 10 years ago, better, but you weren't sure of the business model...
2020-08-13T17:06:08 < jadew`> I considered an FPGA too, but I didn't want it to be cloned
2020-08-13T17:06:18 < karlp> one day it would be ince to see some of these :)
2020-08-13T17:06:21 < jadew`> karlp, I had an indiegogo campaign too
2020-08-13T17:06:31 < jadew`> karlp, https://www.indiegogo.com/projects/proto-talk#/
2020-08-13T17:06:34 < zyp> haha
2020-08-13T17:06:42 < jpa-> i think the whole point and success of glasgow depends on it being open source, so worrying about cloning would be counter-productive
2020-08-13T17:06:56 < zyp> indiegogo, for projects that are even too shitty for kickstarter? :)
2020-08-13T17:06:58 < jadew`> jpa-, it has an SDK interface
2020-08-13T17:07:13 < jadew`> zyp, kickstarter wasn't available for romania
2020-08-13T17:07:28 < karlp> well awesome, there's one of them!
2020-08-13T17:08:29 < Steffanx> Too bad you removed your videos mr jadew` 
2020-08-13T17:08:47 < jadew`> Steffanx, I should remove the presentation page too
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2020-08-13T17:09:12 < jadew`> let me make the videos work again
2020-08-13T17:10:45 < jadew`> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QChCHUEz498
2020-08-13T17:11:18 < jpa-> your spoken english isn't actually half bad
2020-08-13T17:11:35 < jadew`> thanks
2020-08-13T17:11:57 < jadew`> I've been working on improving it
2020-08-13T17:12:58 < jadew`> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L1_u1r8xAWw
2020-08-13T17:13:54 < jpa-> so, you have these projects, they seem almost finished, then the business model doesn't work out and you just put them away instead of releasing?
2020-08-13T17:14:17 < jadew`> yeah, pretty much
2020-08-13T17:14:31 < jadew`> I'm actually sitting on a ton of stuff like this
2020-08-13T17:14:52 < jadew`> including software products
2020-08-13T17:14:55 < jadew`> not sure what's wrong with me
2020-08-13T17:16:30 < Steffanx> Hows your picologger project jadew` ? ;)
2020-08-13T17:16:35 < jadew`> :P
2020-08-13T17:16:46 < jadew`> didn't need it
2020-08-13T17:16:58 < jadew`> when I needed to log temperature, I just used my DMM
2020-08-13T17:17:41 < jadew`> the only reason to go opensource with a hardware project is if you don't intend to support it properly
2020-08-13T17:17:46 < jadew`> if you do, you'll get burned
2020-08-13T17:18:34 < jpa-> why?
2020-08-13T17:18:53 < jadew`> because if it's even remotely successful, it will get manufactured by someone else, cheaper
2020-08-13T17:19:01 < jadew`> and you won't be able to make any money out of it
2020-08-13T17:19:44 < jadew`> non-opensource, means that you have to support it (write software, offer help, etc)
2020-08-13T17:19:48 < jpa-> that just gives another reason: if your goal in life is to make something useful, instead of just making money
2020-08-13T17:20:42 < jadew`> well, I don't think you can make too many useful things for free
2020-08-13T17:21:17 < jpa-> almost all of the software i use daily is free
2020-08-13T17:21:17 < jadew`> right
2020-08-13T17:22:01 < jadew`> jpa-, it wasn't free tho, someone worked
2020-08-13T17:22:09 < jadew`> it was given away for free
2020-08-13T17:22:18 < Cracki> in a star trek universe, all software and all hardware could be as free as free beer
2020-08-13T17:22:43 < Cracki> unfortunately giving shit away doesn't pay the bills
2020-08-13T17:22:49 -!- obarb is now known as brabo
2020-08-13T17:22:58 < jadew`> anyway, as a single developer, or single company that isn't super rich, you can't give a good product away for free
2020-08-13T17:23:09 < Cracki> only time you get shit for free is when the ones giving it away make money elsewhere, such as via support contracts
2020-08-13T17:23:15 < jadew`> so if you make it opensource, you make it in the idea that you'll get the profits and someone else is going to do the work
2020-08-13T17:23:22 < jpa-> but apparently you can hide it in a drawer and lose all the time invested in developing it?
2020-08-13T17:23:31 < Cracki> glasgow's "hardware" was already a board from china they found
2020-08-13T17:23:43 < jadew`> jpa-, that's not a good solution either, I know
2020-08-13T17:23:44 < jpa-> Cracki: ? source
2020-08-13T17:24:07 < jadew`> I'm still pondering on how I can deal with my fear of getting ripped off
2020-08-13T17:24:13 < karlp> it's cracki, just declare things as truthg, anyone who doesn't know is brainwashed
2020-08-13T17:25:02 < Cracki> so what's that fpga board people found on aliexpress that just happens to be targeted by glasgow
2020-08-13T17:25:27 < Cracki> did the chinese clone that, or did the glasgow people find that, build on it, then maybe make custom boards
2020-08-13T17:25:48 < jpa-> you mean, people used dev board to develop stuff? the horror!
2020-08-13T17:25:55 < karlp> you're mixing up the led controller board, with something targetable by migen
2020-08-13T17:27:29 < jpa-> but really, the hardware of glasgow is mostly trivial - just fx2 + fpga + level shifters; software is more interesting, and community is the key to success or failure
2020-08-13T17:27:44 < Cracki> don't deal with the fear, jadew, deal with the possibility of getting ripped off
2020-08-13T17:28:03 < karlp> the auto detection of vio plus pulls and vio config is pretty neat though
2020-08-13T17:28:09 < jpa-> saleae logic 16 clones that ebay is full of is basically the same hardware but with different fpga
2020-08-13T17:28:14 < karlp> msot "just drop an fx2 plus a buffer" is way less.
2020-08-13T17:28:38 < jpa-> karlp: true, it is a nice touch
2020-08-13T17:28:41 < Cracki> every company doing hw faces that problem. I guess they deal with it by being ahead of the copycats, having more knowhow, giving better support, ... all those "intangibles"
2020-08-13T17:29:07 < jadew`> well, one way to deal with it is have something with complexity in firmware
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2020-08-13T17:29:15 < Cracki> that too
2020-08-13T17:29:17 < jpa-> one way is just to consider the clones free advertising, and structure your business so that you don't have to sell thousands to succeed
2020-08-13T17:29:17 < jadew`> which is what these type of tools are
2020-08-13T17:29:23 < jadew`> but I wasn't able to market it
2020-08-13T17:29:49 < Cracki> complex + closed source means you have to do all the work, no slave labor from bored people on the internet
2020-08-13T17:29:51 < jpa-> things like glasgow have so much complexity in firmware that without open sourcing it, it would be way too costly to develop
2020-08-13T17:29:54 < jadew`> jpa-, easier said than done :)
2020-08-13T17:30:16 < jadew`> jpa-, my thing was extremely complex also
2020-08-13T17:30:24 < jadew`> it's difficult to hit those rates
2020-08-13T17:30:59 < jadew`> also, the baudrate errors that I achieved
2020-08-13T17:31:09 < jpa-> kinda like how edesign makes ok hardware like TS100, but their firmware is always just crap - and then magically a great firmware appears on github
2020-08-13T17:38:28 < jadew`> yeah, but they're not relying on that, do they?
2020-08-13T17:42:35 < jpa-> well, they wouldn't succeed without it
2020-08-13T17:44:41 < PaulFertser> Is everybody using Ralim's firmware? The project doesn't seem to be too active really.
2020-08-13T17:44:44 < jpa-> the magic about third party open source firmwares is that a lot of approaches get tried quickly, people tolerate problems and quickly converge on the most promising directions
2020-08-13T17:45:03 < Steffanx> Not everyone. I dont own such iron, Paul;)
2020-08-13T17:45:10 < Steffanx> Tabfail.
2020-08-13T17:45:17 < jpa-> with a closed source firmware, people just expect something that works and even for the small minority that would be willing to help, there are no ways to do so
2020-08-13T17:45:47 < PaulFertser> Steffanx: I meant people who have and use that iron of course.
2020-08-13T17:46:09 < Steffanx> Haha. Be more specific remember? 
2020-08-13T17:46:17 < PaulFertser> I probably should.
2020-08-13T17:46:24 < jpa-> PaulFertser: yeah, that's probably the firmware i'm using
2020-08-13T17:47:51 < PaulFertser> I never booted the vendor firmware even, but I understand that's not the most common approach.
2020-08-13T17:56:11 < jadew`> jpa-, you can provide a SDK, like I was doing
2020-08-13T17:56:30 < jadew`> but people are more likely to buy something that's opensource
2020-08-13T17:56:31 < jpa-> jadew`: yeah, and it is not nearly the same thing
2020-08-13T17:56:46 < jpa-> because with an SDK, you can't fix the bugs and shortcomings of the actual software
2020-08-13T17:56:49 < jadew`> it isn't, because then the customer wouldn't have to do the heavy lifting
2020-08-13T17:56:50 < jpa-> you can only add new features
2020-08-13T17:57:10 < jpa-> also, a good SDK is incredibly complex to make
2020-08-13T17:57:25 < jadew`> right, but again, if you're planning to actually contribute software to your own product, you can't be opensource
2020-08-13T17:57:52 < jadew`> it's like being the major contributor to a project that isn't yours
2020-08-13T17:57:57 < jadew`> it's pointless
2020-08-13T17:58:00 < jpa-> can be, but won't be making a huge amount of money from it
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2020-08-13T17:59:47 < jpa-> making money by making own products is difficult, and i agree that making them open source doesn't make it easier
2020-08-13T17:59:57 < jpa-> but there are other reasons to do stuff than just to make money
2020-08-13T18:00:25 < jpa-> to make money, the easiest way would be just to go work for some company or sell consulting
2020-08-13T18:00:45 < jpa-> no need to invest time and money with very uncertain payback
2020-08-13T18:04:11 < jadew`> jpa-, that's true, but where's the fun in that?
2020-08-13T18:04:20 < jpa-> exactly
2020-08-13T18:04:37 < jpa-> that's why it's important to realize you *can* do things that do not maximize profit
2020-08-13T18:05:30 < jadew`> well, what I was saying was not in the idea of maximizing profit, but to actually have a profit
2020-08-13T18:06:02 < jadew`> the moment you start competing with your own product at a lower price, you can't sustain work for that product anymore
2020-08-13T18:06:50 < jpa-> nah, there are always people who buy the real thing
2020-08-13T18:06:53 < jadew`> there might be a middle ground on some projects, but for most, there isn't
2020-08-13T18:07:22 < jpa-> arduino is selling originals
2020-08-13T18:07:26 < PaulFertser> And BMP
2020-08-13T18:07:36 < jadew`> you either go closed source, and forfit the benefit of the opensource buzzword, or you just do the easy part and shift the burden of development on the end user, and claim opensource
2020-08-13T18:07:57 < jpa-> PaulFertser: for some weird reason, one can't even buy premade blackmagic probe clones
2020-08-13T18:08:12 < jadew`> jpa-, arduino is huge
2020-08-13T18:08:22 < jadew`> they can have deals with distributors
2020-08-13T18:08:28 < jadew`> china clones can't
2020-08-13T18:08:48 < englishman> excuses
2020-08-13T18:09:00 < jpa-> they weren't always huge
2020-08-13T18:09:01 < englishman> plenty of people in here have sold opensores shit for huge profits
2020-08-13T18:09:05 < jpa-> but it was always cloned
2020-08-13T18:09:36 < jadew`> englishman, I'm not claiming it cannot be done, on the contrary
2020-08-13T18:10:03 < jadew`> my point is that if you want to make opensource, you can't take responsibility for the software/support
2020-08-13T18:10:12 < jadew`> which IMO results in a shit product
2020-08-13T18:10:32 < jpa-> offering support only to people who bought from you is easy
2020-08-13T18:10:43 < englishman> works for fedora
2020-08-13T18:10:53 < jadew`> phone support, but there are more types of support
2020-08-13T18:10:55 < jpa-> taking responsibility for software is always hard, because you always need to decide whether a feature is worth doing
2020-08-13T18:10:57 < jadew`> like manuals, app notes, etc
2020-08-13T18:10:59 < englishman> and all the other web69.0 companies offering paid support
2020-08-13T18:11:02 < jadew`> all of it requires time and money
2020-08-13T18:12:17 < jpa-> jadew`: and the same problem will plaque a closed-source startup - it is hard to make great stuff when small
2020-08-13T18:12:33 < jpa-> and once you get big like arduino, the problem is not much of a problem anymore
2020-08-13T18:13:24 < jadew`> it's true that it's hard, but it's not impossible
2020-08-13T18:13:37 < jpa-> but few closed source projects by startup companies get big, because there is this big gap where you can't do stuff properly because of lack of money/manpower, and other people can't help you because it's closed
2020-08-13T18:13:57 < jadew`> when I was employed, I had the highest efficiency in my team
2020-08-13T18:14:21 < jadew`> doing it on my own would mean that I just have to work a little more extra and would end up with the same result, or better
2020-08-13T18:15:00 < jadew`> most things are not made by huge teams anyway
2020-08-13T18:15:26 < jadew`> they're made by just a couple of people, and if it's your own thing, I think you are much more motivated than when working for someone else
2020-08-13T18:15:49 < jadew`> so it's very possible for a startup to make great things
2020-08-13T18:17:13 < jpa-> i used to think like that also :)
2020-08-13T18:17:38 < jpa-> then i tried to actually make some products for a couple of years, and for some reason it's incredibly difficult to do it alone
2020-08-13T18:18:53 < jadew`> don't get me wrong, I know it's difficult, but I think it can be done
2020-08-13T18:18:53 < jpa-> i *guess* there is after all some point to management, sales people, co-developers etc. useless dudes that companies employ
2020-08-13T18:19:52 < jpa-> yeah, i know it is possible, and i also know it is possible both the open source and the closed source way, and that the closed source way has higher potential profits, and the open source way has higher potential to make something useful
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2020-08-13T18:23:11 < jpa-> like arduino: in its beginnings, it wasn't that special as a microcontroller dev kit, there were plenty better documented ones like STK200 stuff - but then it somehow revolutionized how people get introduced to microcontrollers and created a whole new market segment of beginner electronics tinkering
2020-08-13T18:23:56 < jadew`> it's very difficult to replicate that
2020-08-13T18:24:17 < jadew`> the most important thing about startups that make it big, is usually timing
2020-08-13T18:24:36 < jadew`> and arduino happened to be there at the right time, at the right price
2020-08-13T18:24:48 < jadew`> I don't think they did anything particularly well, other than that
2020-08-13T18:24:59 < jadew`> in fact, I would argue that the product was shit to begin with
2020-08-13T18:25:10 < jpa-> i'd agree with the shit part
2020-08-13T18:25:18 < jpa-> and the right price is only thanks to clones
2020-08-13T18:25:26 < jpa-> the originals were and still are expensive
2020-08-13T18:25:31 < jadew`> heh, that's true
2020-08-13T18:27:14 < jpa-> so far my own business models are like: 1. have idea 2. make product 3. wait for clones 4. community appears 5. ??? 6. no profit
2020-08-13T18:27:23 < jpa-> i think i may have understood something wrong about business
2020-08-13T18:27:33 < jadew`> haha
2020-08-13T18:28:35 < jadew`> the things I had most success with were things I gave away for free
2020-08-13T18:28:45 < jadew`> so I think there's something there
2020-08-13T18:29:00 < jpa-> the business models i've seen companies i've worked for do are:  1. have idea 2. sell it 3. collect money 4. tell jpa to get it done already
2020-08-13T18:29:12 < jadew`> lol
2020-08-13T18:29:22 < jadew`> sounds like a much better plan
2020-08-13T18:30:41 < jpa-> yeah, i just never understood how they manage to sell stuff that doesn't even exist
2020-08-13T18:32:03 < jadew`> I think the better question is how they find the buyers willing to buy things that don't exist
2020-08-13T18:32:45 < jpa-> isn't that the same thing?
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2020-08-13T18:33:06 < jadew`> well, I'm sure you could sell a product that doesn't exist too, as long as it's something you're confident you can produce
2020-08-13T18:33:24 < jadew`> but you'll need a receptive ear to hear how you'll deliver that product, even if you can't show it to them
2020-08-13T18:33:36 < jpa-> ah, sure, if by "sell" one means "offer for sale"
2020-08-13T18:33:50 < jpa-> by "manage to sell" i mean "actually make the sale and receive money"
2020-08-13T18:33:57 < jadew`> oh
2020-08-13T18:34:15 < jadew`> that's even more impressive
2020-08-13T18:35:20 < jpa-> yeah
2020-08-13T18:35:54 < jpa-> the sales people in one company regularly managed to sell non-existing stuff for tens of thousands of euros
2020-08-13T18:36:26 < jpa-> ..and confidently did so with 10 week delivery times without even asking the engineers if they can deliver
2020-08-13T18:37:08 < jpa-> i left the company when i decided that there is no way this can work out, they'll just ruin their reputation by delivering half-finished crap
2020-08-13T18:37:33 < jpa-> but no, the company kept growing, eventually was sold and the founders are millionaires now
2020-08-13T18:38:20 < englishman> well it's much easier to finance things when you know there is a market for them
2020-08-13T18:38:49 < englishman> the real value of dickstarter
2020-08-13T18:39:15 < jpa-> yeah, but dickstarter projects so often fail to deliver for some reason
2020-08-13T18:39:26 < englishman> well
2020-08-13T18:39:29 < englishman> just like irl
2020-08-13T18:39:34 < englishman> there are dumb people on the internet
2020-08-13T18:49:03 < Steffanx> Lies
2020-08-13T18:51:08 < t4nk_freenode> I've never met anyone on the net who wasn't at least a distinguised professor of Anything
2020-08-13T18:51:42 < t4nk_freenode> and I should know, because I am a hero myself
2020-08-13T18:53:10 < jadew`> it's because you need a degree to get online
2020-08-13T18:56:29 < jpa-> well, LaurenceB is of course "distinguished", but i'm not sure if that is much of a merit
2020-08-13T18:56:40 < Steffanx> "Veterstrikdiploma"  t4nk_freenode?
2020-08-13T18:57:03 < t4nk_freenode> gotta be honest here..
2020-08-13T18:57:22 < t4nk_freenode> I can't seem to remember ever receiving that diploma, Steffanx 
2020-08-13T18:58:52 < Steffanx> I still have it
2020-08-13T18:59:35 < t4nk_freenode> I just consistently wear pink crocks
2020-08-13T18:59:50 < t4nk_freenode> gift from heaven
2020-08-13T19:00:13 < t4nk_freenode> darnit... I lied again.. don't have any cocks
2020-08-13T19:00:17 < t4nk_freenode> cRocks!
2020-08-13T19:00:47 < jadew`> freudian slip
2020-08-13T19:00:55 < t4nk_freenode> yeah, that was a scary one ;)
2020-08-13T19:02:31 < Steffanx> Here on ##stm32 we know there are only guys on irc, t4nk_freenode . Lucky you
2020-08-13T19:03:09 < t4nk_freenode> and probably: the ones that do slip in here are more man than 5 of us combined
2020-08-13T19:05:07 < Steffanx> Cant be more man than R2COMMIE..
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2020-08-13T20:47:15 < Mangy_Dog> So its finally up... The 1000 sub special video, showcasing the custom digits sub counter. https://youtu.be/AqO4O9PZuTc links to files and source is in video description.
2020-08-13T20:54:17 < Steffanx> Is your corona bad Mangy_Dog? :P
2020-08-13T20:54:30 < Steffanx> hoarse voice and heavy breathing at the start of your vid ;)
2020-08-13T20:55:28  * Mangy_Dog puffs
2020-08-13T20:55:35 < Mangy_Dog> just trying to speak fast :p
2020-08-13T20:56:33 < Mangy_Dog> my voice is rather boring and dull... so if i sound fast and excited i might not make people want to shoot themselves in the head after watching my video.... Think of the lives im saving
2020-08-13T20:56:48 < Mangy_Dog> hehe naa but ill be resuming that shortly
2020-08-13T20:56:52 < Mangy_Dog> taking a day off
2020-08-13T20:57:24 < Steffanx> imho you have a good voice over voice Mangy_Dog
2020-08-13T20:58:12 < Mangy_Dog> oh i also dont edit out my inhales as most do
2020-08-13T20:58:50 < Mangy_Dog> i also use my inhails as beats to work with between lines when editing
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2020-08-13T21:09:57 < zyp> looks nice
2020-08-13T21:16:13 < Mangy_Dog> thanks :D
2020-08-13T21:21:38 < benishor> Mangy_Dog: congrats
2020-08-13T21:22:03 < benishor> I know how hard it is to do any youtube content
2020-08-13T21:22:10 < benishor> tried several times, always gave up
2020-08-13T21:22:23 < benishor> starting from production to hating the sound of your voice and so on and so forth
2020-08-13T21:22:35 < benishor> congratulations for being persistent!
2020-08-13T21:22:55 < Mangy_Dog> :)
2020-08-13T21:23:32 < benishor> not to mention your english sounds native :)
2020-08-13T21:23:48 < benishor> (probably because it is)
2020-08-13T21:24:09 < Mangy_Dog> yeah im english :D
2020-08-13T21:24:16 < mawk> take some speed Mangy_Dog 
2020-08-13T21:24:23 < mawk> 100% guaranteed by me
2020-08-13T21:24:27 < PaulFertser> Mangy_Dog: you keep amazing with your skills and passion, thanks for sharing!
2020-08-13T21:25:03 < benishor> \m/
2020-08-13T21:25:17 < benishor> it's rare that people "complete" something
2020-08-13T21:25:23 < mawk> once you have 10k subscribers you can ask for free monies out of youtube, in france
2020-08-13T21:25:31 < mawk> as part of a copyright law settlement or something
2020-08-13T21:25:42 < mawk> you gain I think 0.5€ per 1k views
2020-08-13T21:25:47 < benishor> most of times I get ultra bored after I overcome the set challenges 
2020-08-13T21:26:00 < benishor> and I don't find it rewarding to document the whole trip and the lessons learned anymore
2020-08-13T21:26:02 < benishor> which is a pity
2020-08-13T21:26:02 < mawk> independant of the ad money and all
2020-08-13T21:26:13 < benishor> mawk: oh really?
2020-08-13T21:26:46 < benishor> that's a nice target
2020-08-13T21:27:12 < benishor> I was noticing how many makers on youtube have been sponsorized by various firms
2020-08-13T21:27:33 < benishor> so that they introduce some spoken ad in their videos
2020-08-13T21:27:46 < benishor> *sponsored*
2020-08-13T21:28:01 < benishor> pardon my dracula's english
2020-08-13T21:32:06 < Mangy_Dog> :D
2020-08-13T21:32:24 < mawk> but the thing I said will soon pass in european law
2020-08-13T21:32:31 < mawk> so-called "article 13" stuff
2020-08-13T21:32:47 < benishor> subscribed
2020-08-13T21:33:06 < mawk> but royalties are allocated on a fixed sum, percentage of the earnings of the company; so the more people that claim it, the less each person gets
2020-08-13T21:33:12 < Mangy_Dog> Paul thanks too sorry i missed your comment
2020-08-13T21:33:55 < Mangy_Dog> ahh mawk
2020-08-13T21:34:02 < Mangy_Dog> ill keep that in mind if i ever reach 10k :p
2020-08-13T21:34:37 < mawk> it's more like a copyright law stuff strata, but probably some people interpret like you say
2020-08-13T21:34:38 < mawk> not sure
2020-08-13T21:36:16  * mawk will probably not be in it
2020-08-13T21:36:21 < Mangy_Dog> :o
2020-08-13T21:36:23 < mawk> I'll be in jail
2020-08-13T21:37:51 < Cracki> how often is the shearing?
2020-08-13T21:38:10 < Cracki> wat do you call it when sheep are shorn?
2020-08-13T21:40:47 < Steffanx> why would you keep that in mind Mangy_Dog? EU law doesnt apply to you no more i heard (soon)
2020-08-13T21:41:04 < mawk> probably britain will have the same law
2020-08-13T21:41:09 < mawk> it's just a normal law
2020-08-13T21:41:17 < Cracki> porte des étoiles
2020-08-13T21:41:25 < mawk> extension of current copyright law for book writers, movies directors, artists and musicians, etc
2020-08-13T21:41:30 < mawk> stargate
2020-08-13T21:41:41 < benishor> man, we live some fucked up times
2020-08-13T21:41:43 < Cracki> might he flee his country and immigrate to france perhaps
2020-08-13T21:42:07 < Steffanx> my times are fine to me benishor
2020-08-13T21:42:13 < benishor> instead of putting all shit together for the wellbeing and progress of humanity, here we are fucking each other's arses
2020-08-13T21:42:30 < Cracki> I don't think the ass fucking is very mutual
2020-08-13T21:42:38 < benishor> also add a pandemic to that
2020-08-13T21:43:20 < benishor> Steffanx: mine too, since I use gps corrected timers :)
2020-08-13T21:43:20 < antto> benishor where's that?
2020-08-13T21:43:24 < Steffanx> Are you suffering badly from it benishor?
2020-08-13T21:43:30 < Steffanx> the pandemic?
2020-08-13T21:43:47 < benishor> depends on what you think as badly
2020-08-13T21:43:50 < Steffanx> Im not, not at all. but perhaps its just me.  or the region i live in.
2020-08-13T21:44:00 < benishor> suffering from anxiety is quite a heavy burden during a pandemic
2020-08-13T21:44:06 < mawk> because you're a privilgied white groningian male Steffanx 
2020-08-13T21:44:34 < benishor> all little things that used to go unnoticed before now pose a serious possible threat
2020-08-13T21:44:45 < Steffanx> skin colour has nothing to do it, but .. yeah north dutchland is doing relatively fine.
2020-08-13T21:44:47 < benishor> temperature went up a bit? you might be fucked
2020-08-13T21:44:58 < benishor> your kid started to sneeze? you might be fucked
2020-08-13T21:45:12 < Steffanx> my temperature went up, because its fucking bloody hot here.
2020-08-13T21:45:17 < benishor> head hurts and your throat is sore? you might be fucked
2020-08-13T21:45:27 < mawk> yes so Steffanx about my refund ?
2020-08-13T21:45:31 < mawk> it's too hot here
2020-08-13T21:45:43 < benishor> it's too hot everywhere it seems
2020-08-13T21:45:49 < Steffanx> Did you know its the hottest week in dutchland ever measured?
2020-08-13T21:45:51 < benishor> and yet, there's no such thing as climate change
2020-08-13T21:45:51 < mawk> I got tricked by dutch people into believing it's cold weather
2020-08-13T21:46:01 < benishor> we've had like 37C here (romania)
2020-08-13T21:46:16 < benishor> not really usual I'd say
2020-08-13T21:46:45 < Steffanx> The hot temperatures did fix my display though. I had weird discolourations in all of the corners of my screen, but they disappeared. Must have been moisture or something.
2020-08-13T21:46:56 < benishor> \o/
2020-08-13T21:48:50 < Steffanx> http://imgur.com/a/6XOd94A that kind of shit. It actually became worse over time
2020-08-13T21:49:13 < Steffanx> it spread to not just the corners, but all edges.
2020-08-13T21:49:45 < bitmask> these pomona grabbers are so cute
2020-08-13T21:50:56 < bitmask> I'm gonna test my scope for the first time, see my psu ripple for the heated jacket, as much as I can at least
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2020-08-13T21:54:08 < bitmask> what do I do? someone teach me
2020-08-13T21:54:10 < bitmask> :)
2020-08-13T21:56:52 < Cracki> benishor, how do you see your chances of surviving the shit, if you catch it?
2020-08-13T22:20:20 < Mangy_Dog> steff looks like heat damage?
2020-08-13T22:29:09 < catphish> totally on-topic question: how do i drill a 20mm hole in an 8mm aluminium sheet?
2020-08-13T22:31:04 < catphish> would be much better if i just had a water cutter :)
2020-08-13T22:34:26 < catphish> actually it'll be cheaper overall just to order it cut by someone else
2020-08-13T22:35:51 < Cracki> I'd suggest a metal hole saw but that's probably wrong and bad for lots of reasons
2020-08-13T22:40:13 < catphish> well that was the obvious choice to me, but they look awful, especially without spending a ton of money
2020-08-13T22:41:30 < catphish> just remembered how much i love openscad, i'll script up my design and see if i can get it made externally
2020-08-13T22:47:41 < Cracki> will they be able to handle STL? do they want step or something like that?
2020-08-13T22:48:02 < Cracki> or is it gonna be a drawing instead
2020-08-13T22:48:19 < catphish> the first place i've found wants dxf or step
2020-08-13T22:48:41 < catphish> openscad can do dxf so should be good
2020-08-13T22:49:32 < Cracki> does that preserve arcs?
2020-08-13T22:49:46 < Cracki> looks like it does
2020-08-13T22:51:59 < Cracki> nvm, I don't even remember if openscad produces arcs from primitives, given that it has $fn
2020-08-13T22:53:45 < catphish> i always just set $fn really high and don't worry about it
2020-08-13T23:08:56 < Steffanx> Mangy_Dog, probably not. It gone now, since it has been ~30C for like two weeks.
2020-08-13T23:09:03 < Steffanx> and i just noticed today its completely gone
2020-08-13T23:09:28 < Steffanx> im pretty sure it will reeappear though.
2020-08-13T23:20:29 < Steffanx> I was going to return it, but now there is no sense in doing that since the problem is no longer visible -_-
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2020-08-13T23:49:52 < catphish> this is approximagely what i'm plotting - https://imgur.com/a/oDcrp12 - should allow me to bolt an my new injector housing to my engine's inlet manifold - 3 sets of holes, the big hole is the actual intake pipe, the small holes with recessed tops are to allow it to be bolted to the engine and bury the bolts, then the final set of holes will be tapped to accept the new throttle/injector housing
2020-08-13T23:49:57 < catphish> what could possibly go wrong :)
2020-08-13T23:51:18 < catphish> if i drill the recessions for the bolt heads myself, i can get it made as a single piece instead of two, which would be far superior
--- Day changed Fri Aug 14 2020
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2020-08-14T00:17:44 < Steffanx> Time to make yourself a cnc catphish ? ;)
2020-08-14T00:17:57 < catphish> lol i suspect not
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2020-08-14T00:19:00 < zyp> just 3d print it
2020-08-14T00:19:14 < Steffanx> In aluminium. Yes
2020-08-14T00:19:28 < zyp> sure, why not?
2020-08-14T00:19:41 < Steffanx> Yes, i agree. More awesome 
2020-08-14T00:20:48 < zyp> they've got one of those markforged printers at MIL, pretty cool stuff
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2020-08-14T00:22:07 < zyp> oh, two actually
2020-08-14T00:22:16 < zyp> https://www.mil-as.no/media/1209/mil-tp-advanced-manufacturing-ver03.pdf
2020-08-14T00:23:55 < Steffanx> 3?
2020-08-14T00:24:23 < englishman> guess I should donate my CNC to a hacker space, noone wants to buy it
2020-08-14T00:24:44 < Steffanx> You had one of those cnc6040s right?
2020-08-14T00:24:49 < zyp> englishman, what happened to your p&p?
2020-08-14T00:24:55 < Steffanx> Arent you no maker no more?
2020-08-14T00:24:58 < englishman> still have it
2020-08-14T00:25:12 < englishman> yes 6040 with the dope spindle
2020-08-14T00:25:13 < zyp> still don't use it? :p
2020-08-14T00:25:19 < englishman> still don't use it
2020-08-14T00:25:49 < englishman> I'll give you a good deal
2020-08-14T00:26:42 < Steffanx> $1 + shipping?
2020-08-14T00:27:13 < Steffanx> CAD
2020-08-14T00:27:29 < englishman> sure but it determine ship cost
2020-08-14T00:27:31 < englishman> I
2020-08-14T00:28:02 < Steffanx> :)
2020-08-14T00:28:27  * t4nk_freenode silently cries over not having a cnc :|
2020-08-14T00:28:29 < zyp> I've started wanting a p&p again, some of the fpga-related shit I wanna do got an expensive enough BOM that outsourcing prototypes makes less sense
2020-08-14T00:29:29 < zyp> and still enough parts that I don't wanna hand place them
2020-08-14T00:30:49 < englishman> if you have a decent size room for a fab it's a very convenient tool to have
2020-08-14T00:31:12  * karlp wonders if his current board is bustd from poor hand assembly or design flaws...
2020-08-14T00:31:18  * karlp buys a p&p to find out ;)
2020-08-14T00:31:41 < englishman> see, with professional assembly, you fight only your design, not with yourself
2020-08-14T00:31:59 < englishman> getting shit done, time = money blah blah
2020-08-14T00:32:37 < karlp> yaryar
2020-08-14T00:32:46 < zyp> I've toyed around with the idea of building one, but that's obviously gonna be a project in itself
2020-08-14T00:33:45 < englishman> yeah fuck that.
2020-08-14T00:34:01 < englishman> 3/4 of it is software too, and openpnp is not a professional option
2020-08-14T00:34:09 < zyp> I mean, it seems fun, but there doesn't seem to be any particularly good starting points, and I'm never gonna finish anything if I start from scratch
2020-08-14T00:36:43 < zyp> software doesn't really seem all that complicated
2020-08-14T00:37:29 < zyp> pick up part at location X, move it over to the camera, check alignment/orientation, place it at location Y
2020-08-14T00:38:54 < zyp> what does professional software do that openpnp doesn't?
2020-08-14T00:39:05 < englishman> work in a logical way
2020-08-14T00:39:15 < englishman> with emphasis on "work"
2020-08-14T00:39:23 < zyp> haha
2020-08-14T00:39:49 < englishman> his shit spends so much time fussing over details that noone should ever see / imaginary provl ms / set and forget stuff that he forgot to do any dicknplacing
2020-08-14T00:40:07 < zyp> whose?
2020-08-14T00:40:12 < englishman> openpnp
2020-08-14T00:40:25 < englishman> it's just one guy, who had never used a dicknplace
2020-08-14T00:40:32 < zyp> ah
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2020-08-14T00:41:24 < t4nk_freenode> nothing beats diy, ever ;)
2020-08-14T00:41:51 < zyp> so anyway, how much would you realistically want for your p&p, apart from shipping?
2020-08-14T00:41:52 < Steffanx> Your hand.. vs the real deal?
2020-08-14T00:42:01 < englishman> anyway, the china "pro" soft isn't perfect but it works, you load a file, assign parts, dick with the panelling and off it goes
2020-08-14T00:42:07 < englishman> once you do all the setup shit
2020-08-14T00:42:22 < englishman> for the oven, PnP, and feeders, I'd want $8k usd
2020-08-14T00:42:25 < englishman> plus transport
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2020-08-14T00:42:37 < englishman> which is pretty good I think, it was like $22-25k
2020-08-14T00:42:46 < englishman> feeders alone were $6-8k
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2020-08-14T00:49:59 < englishman> https://i.imgur.com/Uq8mcHY.jpg
2020-08-14T00:50:31 < zyp> that's only 10x as much as I've got sitting on my paypal at the moment :p
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2020-08-14T01:05:51 < Cracki> lmk if you're not satisfied with the software side of the "vision" these pnps do
2020-08-14T01:16:49 < jadew`> karlp, I think the biggest issue with hand assembly is the paste
2020-08-14T01:17:00 < jadew`> zyp, what variants have you considered so far?
2020-08-14T01:17:14 < jadew`> I want a PnP too, but it needs to be smallish
2020-08-14T01:18:17 < jadew`> I was considering buying a machine shop, that had a lots of place for an assembly line too, but the access to the place is too difficult
2020-08-14T01:19:05 < jadew`> the place I'm currently renting is on the 3rd floor of an industrial building, and I'd like to avoid taking anything huge up the stairs
2020-08-14T01:19:53 < jadew`> the ones you seem to be able to buy from china for ~5k are bigger than a table
2020-08-14T01:22:10 < Cracki> industrial building, ask where the freight elevator is
2020-08-14T01:22:56 < jadew`> access to my shop is done from a regular staircase
2020-08-14T01:23:16 < Cracki> that thing about fits on a table but the table should be a workbench or else it'll wobble like fuck https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LjGCP9bvGNc
2020-08-14T01:23:39 < Cracki> they must have some elevator to the floor
2020-08-14T01:23:56 < Cracki> putting it on the shipping crate it came in works too
2020-08-14T01:24:24 < jadew`> hmm, that one looks pretty good
2020-08-14T01:24:35 < jadew`> I saw some bad reviews recently for that brand tho
2020-08-14T01:25:23 < Cracki> that one is somewhere between maker grade and chip spitters
2020-08-14T01:25:44 < Cracki> if they haven't improved the software since ~2016, I can say it's... got rough edges
2020-08-14T01:26:39 < jadew`> that's a 5k model
2020-08-14T01:26:56 < jadew`> looks fairly compact
2020-08-14T01:27:05 < Cracki> it's running the vision on its own little computer inside of it. I'd have preferred this on a separate computer you can plug keyboard and mouse into
2020-08-14T01:27:22 < Cracki> the cameras back then were of average resolution
2020-08-14T01:28:48 < Cracki> it has no feeder cartidges. you have to fiddle this shit in there and make sure nothing rips or gets stuck
2020-08-14T01:29:41 < Cracki> the cover tape is pulled back by those light blue wheels you see on the sides... their "pull" is individually adjusted with a grub screw touching a shaft they're sitting on. that can variably be too weak or too strong.
2020-08-14T01:30:34 < jadew`> sounds problematic
2020-08-14T01:30:43 < Cracki> the blocks where the tapes go in and the pickup happens, they have unchamfered edges so they may shave the tape or just jam
2020-08-14T01:31:51 < Cracki> after everyone had some time with the new toy, they finally let me run it without interference. I'd compare it to running a 3d printer that isn't high-end set-and-forget, but needs a watchful eye and some "learning curve"
2020-08-14T01:32:52 < Cracki> their vision failed in moderately suboptimal situations (room's ceiling not dark enough, chip's pads/legs not reflective enough, ...)
2020-08-14T01:33:53 < Cracki> and it couldn't handle chips thrown in the "loose trays". you could calibrate those things as "1x1 trays" where you'd have to manually put the next part up against the corner
2020-08-14T01:34:53 < Cracki> their vision checked the bottom to make sure the chip is at the right angle and position, but the topdown camera was not used for even presence detection (if a component in the feel was "missing", it's notice from lack of pressure drop)
2020-08-14T01:35:50 < Cracki> their vision also just took a seemingly fixed brightness threshold and bounding box, so 3-legged components were dicy (you can put a minimum enclosing box around that in two ways if they're both the same area)
2020-08-14T01:37:20 < Cracki> big money machines seem to be teachable to recognize different chips visually, and this obviously didn't do that either. the money was mostly for the electro-mechanical side and shipping. it seemed as if their software was rather green.
2020-08-14T01:38:09 < Cracki> I wouldn't wanna deal with this type of machine again. individually removable feeders make life a lot easier.
2020-08-14T01:39:09 < Cracki> also for picking speed. you'd wanna consider where the PCB/panel sits, where the components go on there, and where the feeders sit, so the sum of distances (or rather movement time) is comparably small
2020-08-14T01:40:16 < Cracki> example: we had a 1x4 panel. supervisor timed the first board of the panel, got 4 minutes, figured 16 minutes for it all. nope, took 20 minutes. longer distances.
2020-08-14T01:41:09 < jadew`> makes sense
2020-08-14T01:41:11 < Cracki> as for "compact", it's heavy as fuck. you'd never get it on a table alone.
2020-08-14T01:42:01 < Cracki> the pcb clamps are such that clamping the panel in 4x1 (so it's all closer to the left side feeders) would be a bad idea
2020-08-14T01:42:55 < Cracki> and you gotta pass under it with a hedge trimmer occasionally. the tape waste grows...
2020-08-14T01:46:28 < Cracki> their UI was bare. we had to adjust rotations of some components. it just gave us a spreadsheet table to enter degrees into. it wasn't clear if this was added to the given value, or replaced it, or which way it rotates, ... I think the manual was as bare as the UI
2020-08-14T01:47:20 < Cracki> it could calibrate board position from fiducials or any pad. iirc it had some vision that could zero in on a pad. if the transformation matrix "tipped over" though, the UI couldn't recover. you had to delete/edit the text file that contained the coefficients.
2020-08-14T01:47:58 < jadew`> sounds like the usual china garbage
2020-08-14T01:48:24 < Cracki> green as bananas
2020-08-14T01:48:35 < jadew`> I heard it's bad, but I was hoping that it was an isolated incident
2020-08-14T01:48:50 < jadew`> guess that crosses it off the list
2020-08-14T01:49:20 < Cracki> it took two point pairs, so that's a similarity transform, but I think internally it was an affine transform and that could collapse and cause numerics to fail (I think it used single precision floats...)
2020-08-14T01:49:29 < Cracki> tho, again, that was 2016
2020-08-14T01:49:39 < Cracki> I would assume they'd improve it in the meantime
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2020-08-14T01:50:23 < Cracki> the xy motion was steppers (and endstops), i.e. noisy and heavy. the real pro pnps use servos.
2020-08-14T01:51:30 < Cracki> there seem to be a few companies making professional pnps, and their feeder designs/interfaces are used by others
2020-08-14T01:52:03 < Cracki> I'd definitely look for something with swappable feeders. so much easier
2020-08-14T01:52:48 < Cracki> also easier to debug, reach, ... this thing took two tweezers sometimes, and you had to navigate between however many reels you had mounted, and their cover tapes
2020-08-14T01:54:26 < karlp> jadew`: yeah, I definitely had paste issues.  too much, not enough, getting the right paste for the stencil
2020-08-14T01:54:45 < Cracki> oh and you might not quite notice it from the video but the tapes are advanced using the pnp head. it's dropping a pin and moving the tape.
2020-08-14T01:55:13 < Cracki> that costs time. some other designs (seemingly derivative of this) use additional/separate mechanisms to advance tape
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2020-08-14T02:22:20 -!- mode/##stm32 [+o englishman] by ChanServ
2020-08-14T02:22:21 -!- mode/##stm32 [+b *!2ed0cf2d@45.207.208.46.dyn.plus.net] by englishman
2020-08-14T02:22:21 -!- Laurenceb was kicked from ##stm32 by englishman [Laurenceb]
2020-08-14T02:22:34 -!- mode/##stm32 [-o englishman] by englishman
2020-08-14T02:23:49 < Mangy_Dog> o.O
2020-08-14T02:24:04 < Mangy_Dog> is he.... unwell?
2020-08-14T02:37:31 < aandrew> Mangy_Dog: this is what we can expect from more and more Brits as their empire decompses
2020-08-14T02:41:28 < Cracki> he's having fun obv
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2020-08-14T02:56:37 < karlp> thanks englishman 
2020-08-14T02:56:55 < karlp> aandrew: so... when should we expect the yankees to do the same?
2020-08-14T02:57:53 < aandrew> karlp: ... more than a decade ago?
2020-08-14T03:02:20 < karlp> well, they're not all behaving like lolrence yet, 
2020-08-14T03:02:35 < karlp> I had actually thorugh the uk was further down the spiral than the us until the last year or so.
2020-08-14T03:02:39 < karlp> now I'm not so sure...
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2020-08-14T08:17:39 < TLai> Hi, I'm new to the CAN bus system; is it okay to just connect RX/TX to the CAN transceiver and talk simple UART over it?
2020-08-14T08:18:27 < TLai> the stm32f4 has direct can support, but I'd like to use the stm32l0 as a client (which does not offer the can support)
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2020-08-14T08:29:23 < TLai> what is so special about the can interface that the stm32l072 does not support it?
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2020-08-14T09:24:24 < srk> TLai: no, you connect CAN to CAN, it's completely different from UART
2020-08-14T09:25:05 < TLai> ok maybe a bit more specific, the mcp2551 is just a level translator isn't it? So basically I can just talk uart over it?
2020-08-14T09:25:25 < jpa-> no, CAN is not UART even after the level translation
2020-08-14T09:25:40 < jpa-> and MCP2551 is more than just level translator
2020-08-14T09:26:24 < jpa-> but not enough to connect to UART
2020-08-14T09:27:07 < jpa-> (i guess you could call it a fancy level translator, with slope control & differential conversion etc.)
2020-08-14T09:27:48 < jpa-> at low speeds you could probably bitbang CAN protocol
2020-08-14T09:28:02 < TLai> can you give me some idea what the problem is with using uart via the mcp2551?
2020-08-14T09:28:45 < jpa-> CAN doesn't have start/stop frame format, which UART has
2020-08-14T09:29:03 < jpa-> (start/stop bit async framing)
2020-08-14T09:29:20 < TLai> does the mcp2551 check for that?
2020-08-14T09:29:36 < jpa-> no, but the UART does, and also transmits it
2020-08-14T09:29:54 < jpa-> you might have better luck trying to connect it to SPI peripheral, but even then you will need to do a lot of things in software
2020-08-14T09:30:43 < jpa-> what bitrate of CAN are you aiming for?
2020-08-14T09:31:25 < TLai> 115k
2020-08-14T09:31:54 < TLai> that's what the controller is currently connected to via USB.. actually I could go slower
2020-08-14T09:32:10 < TLai> I want to talk to a slave controller via a master controller (which is connected via USB)
2020-08-14T09:32:27 < TLai> the slave controller is around 2m far away from the master controller
2020-08-14T09:32:39 < jpa-> why can? why not just rs485?
2020-08-14T09:32:55 < jpa-> if you have only two devices on the bus, there is little use for the arbitration features of can
2020-08-14T09:33:53 < jpa-> you can also use e.g. MCP2515 that has CAN peripheral you can talk to via SPI
2020-08-14T09:35:39 < TLai> you're right maybe I should use rs485
2020-08-14T09:39:55 < TLai> thanks for that information! I will also have a look at the mcp2515 (just for learning), but I will stick with rs485 for now since the distance is not that far.
2020-08-14T09:40:46 < jpa-> RS485 can go far, much further than CAN typically - the big selling point of CAN is supporting multiple devices on same bus
2020-08-14T09:44:07 < TLai> but back to the MCP2551, start stop bit should not be a problem since it just translate the uart signal to the can levels no? I'm missing a detail here I think
2020-08-14T09:44:26 < TLai> (I won't use the mcp2551 .. since rs485 is better and easier it seems)
2020-08-14T09:45:24 < jpa-> well, UART always transmits start bit at beginning of every byte and stop bit at end of it - MCP2551 will not remove it, and the CAN receiver at the other end will not expect it and will receive garbage
2020-08-14T09:45:40 < jpa-> and in the other direction, the UART has no way to sync up to CAN signal and will receive only garbage
2020-08-14T09:45:43 < TLai> ok that's it thanks!
2020-08-14T09:45:46 < TLai> I understand now
2020-08-14T09:46:20 < jpa-> if by "talk uart over it" you mean to have UART connected to MCP2551 at both ends, then that's basically just reinventing RS485 :)
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2020-08-14T09:50:12 < TLai> I will still get an MCP2551 module and play around with it to "harden" some experience with it. Ok I'll go back and try rs485 now :-)
2020-08-14T10:07:58 < PaulFertser> jpa-: for the reference, I've seen a 5 km CAN link working (with 10k baud).
2020-08-14T10:10:04 < jpa-> :)
2020-08-14T10:10:32 < PaulFertser> jpa-: and I also saw some power meter which used a CAN PHY to talk UART :) (exposed to the end users!)
2020-08-14T10:12:02 < jpa-> heh
2020-08-14T10:14:27 < zyp> jadew`, variants?
2020-08-14T10:16:15 < zyp> jpa-, does RS485 really have much longer range than CAN? electrically they are pretty similar
2020-08-14T10:17:00 < jpa-> zyp: i thought CAN only pulls strongly one direction
2020-08-14T10:17:08 < zyp> yes, that's the only difference
2020-08-14T10:17:10 < jpa-> so bitrate is pretty slow with high capacitance
2020-08-14T10:17:44 < zyp> hmm, true
2020-08-14T10:18:32 < PaulFertser> And with longer distances you have to account for the propogation delay so the timings get tighter.
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2020-08-14T12:17:20 < karlp> rs485 is bitrate vs distance too.
2020-08-14T12:17:36 < karlp> and many of the common things done to improve robustness impact distance, like the biasing resistors
2020-08-14T12:18:17 < karlp> jpa-: I think you should rephrase your "selling point of can" is multiple _masters_ easily, rs485 is also multipoint, rs422 is the point to point...
2020-08-14T12:24:48 < jpa-> karlp: ah, yeah, i wondered how to phrase that well
2020-08-14T12:25:01 < jpa-> slavemaster terminology for the win! ;)
2020-08-14T12:27:48 < PaulFertser> With hardware prioritisation!
2020-08-14T12:28:30 < karlp> that too,
2020-08-14T12:28:38 < karlp> but only tiny packets
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2020-08-14T12:46:17 < zyp> FDCAN has larger packets
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2020-08-14T13:14:37 < karlp> sure, but that's fdcan :)
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2020-08-14T13:58:12 < jadew`> zyp, what variants?
2020-08-14T13:58:42 < jadew`> ah, I was asking about the pick and place machines
2020-08-14T13:58:56 < jadew`> Cracki made a very good case against the charmhigh ones
2020-08-14T14:31:11 < mrec> I'm just building a second one myself ;-)
2020-08-14T14:31:54 < jadew`> a second one?
2020-08-14T14:32:09 < jadew`> was the first one so good, you decided to make a new one?
2020-08-14T14:32:24 < mrec> the first one was a shitty commercial one from poland, I rewrote the software for it.
2020-08-14T14:32:40 < mrec> but then I figured out how easy the mechanical part is
2020-08-14T14:32:57 < jadew`> yeah, the mechanical part does seem easy
2020-08-14T14:33:04 < jadew`> but you need feeders
2020-08-14T14:33:15 < mrec> I already have a design for electrical feeders
2020-08-14T14:33:40 < mrec> I bought one from china and had a close look at it .. but they wouldn't sell the frame only so I will make them myself
2020-08-14T14:33:58 < mrec> I want to have smarter feeders
2020-08-14T14:34:19 < mrec> store the component ID in the feeder and wherever I plug the feeder in the machine should figure it out
2020-08-14T14:34:39 < jadew`> that would be cool, yeah
2020-08-14T14:35:03 < mrec> I have written my own pick and place software for the other machine, it's pretty good already
2020-08-14T14:35:20 < mrec> Maybe I'll go commercial next year after it survives another half year of pick and placing our own products
2020-08-14T14:36:30 < jadew`> have a price point in mind?
2020-08-14T14:36:41 < mrec> maybe not selling but renting it.
2020-08-14T14:36:57 < mrec> keeping and maintaining small machines ourself at the beginning
2020-08-14T14:37:29 < mrec> the shit machine from poland which we have bought caused nothing but trouble at the beginning that's not a good business
2020-08-14T14:37:44 < mrec> but it got us into it
2020-08-14T14:38:20 < mrec> renting keeps the risk of a failure low for companies.
2020-08-14T14:38:33 < mrec> if it's not suitable pack it and dump it back to the manufacturer.
2020-08-14T14:39:10 < mrec> I'm from Austria, but our second location is in Taiwan and I moved to Taiwan :-)
2020-08-14T14:44:43 < mrec> the application is nice, it supports capturing the entire PCB so someone could could check the entire panel before pick and placing & after pick and placing
2020-08-14T14:45:05 < mrec> designators are directly drawn onto the PCB
2020-08-14T14:46:56 < mrec> the components are stored in a mysql database and accessible via web
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2020-08-14T21:57:20 < PaulFertser> btw, regarding the "russian vaccine". Putin lied again, in fact the vaccine was registered as something allowed for clinical trials, nothing more.
2020-08-14T21:58:30 < zyp> surprise surprise
2020-08-14T21:59:20 < PublicWiFi> i wish programming/flashing this nucleo board was as easy as AVR lol
2020-08-14T21:59:31 < PublicWiFi> trying to use gcc because I prefer C over C++
2020-08-14T22:00:17 < PaulFertser> PublicWiFi: what other compiler would force you to use C++ ?
2020-08-14T22:00:30 < PublicWiFi> thats the online IDE they ship with..
2020-08-14T22:00:32 < PublicWiFi> mbed?
2020-08-14T22:00:45 < effractur> you can just flash it with st-link
2020-08-14T22:00:47 < PublicWiFi> whatever IDE it ships with was a C++ toolchain
2020-08-14T22:01:07 < effractur> https://github.com/stlink-org/stlink
2020-08-14T22:01:12 < PaulFertser> And you can't debug many AVRs. While you can easily debug something on a nucleo.
2020-08-14T22:01:20 < PublicWiFi> does it have to be a .bin or anything fact? I'm using arm-none-eabi
2020-08-14T22:01:32 < PublicWiFi> or anything*
2020-08-14T22:01:35 < PublicWiFi> gcc-arm-none-eabi
2020-08-14T22:01:43 < PaulFertser> effractur: any particular reason to prefer it over OpenOCD?
2020-08-14T22:01:50 < effractur> PaulFertser: well you can also use that
2020-08-14T22:01:54 < effractur> just what you prefere
2020-08-14T22:01:54 < PaulFertser> PublicWiFi: OpenOCD accepts ELF files directly
2020-08-14T22:02:20 < PublicWiFi> yeah I have OpenOCD too but its missing the cfg file for my board, i need to find one
2020-08-14T22:02:39 < PaulFertser> PublicWiFi: nucleo board is nothing special, just source stlink.cfg and then whatever target you have there
2020-08-14T22:03:14 < PublicWiFi> okay cool maybe I'm just over thinking it
2020-08-14T22:04:11 < Cracki> PaulFertser, of course you can debug all the AVRs. atmel's debuggers just cost more than an st-link so everyone just buys a programmer.
2020-08-14T22:04:54 < Cracki> PublicWiFi, have you stated what "your board" is yet?
2020-08-14T22:04:57 < PaulFertser> Cracki: I'm not sure about all, iirc attiny doesn't have an OCD unit.
2020-08-14T22:05:50 < PaulFertser> And I used "avr dragon" once, it was quite slow (and probably 10x the price of stlink)
2020-08-14T22:06:23 < Cracki> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ATtiny_microcontroller_comparison_chart
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2020-08-14T22:06:37 < PaulFertser> (especially if you think of a nucleo stlink as a free one :) )
2020-08-14T22:06:42 < Cracki> I'm not gonna check _every_ row but I see debugging protocols for every line I look at
2020-08-14T22:07:10 < Cracki> so at best you can claim that stm32/cortex m is cheaper to get debugging for
2020-08-14T22:08:01 < PaulFertser> Cracki: dW is a debug protocol, ISP and HVPP are not.
2020-08-14T22:08:11 < Cracki> yes it seems there are tinys that don't support programmign, but those are the tiniest of them, nobody would buy that except for volume production
2020-08-14T22:08:15 < Cracki> so?
2020-08-14T22:08:25 < Cracki> I didn't claim otherwise?
2020-08-14T22:09:16 < PaulFertser> Yep, I agree, apparently most tinys support debug one way or the other.
2020-08-14T22:09:21 < PublicWiFi> Cracki: oh its a nucleo-f411re
2020-08-14T22:09:45 < Cracki> nevermind. this leads nowhere. the original statement was "And you can't debug many AVRs" and debating the meaning of "many" is pointless
2020-08-14T22:09:49 < PublicWiFi> it has a built in st-link 
2020-08-14T22:09:50 < Cracki> thx PublicWiFi 
2020-08-14T22:10:04 < effractur> PaulFertser: yea all the nucleo stuff has a buildin stlink
2020-08-14T22:10:23 < PaulFertser> Cracki: you're right, I was wrong
2020-08-14T22:11:01 < Cracki> there's actually no benefit to being right
2020-08-14T22:20:12 < t4nk_freenode> I like buildins!
2020-08-14T22:20:20 < t4nk_freenode> big buildins, small buildins
2020-08-14T22:24:30 < PaulFertser> "The LGT8XM is designed with performance bear in mind. We optimize its executing flow cycle by cycle and finally get a very powerful AVR implementation which never happened." (from the official datasheet of an atmega88 clone)
2020-08-14T22:25:04 < PaulFertser> https://www.google.com/search?tbm=isch&q=performance%20bear&tbs=imgo:1
2020-08-14T22:28:35 < Steffanx> haha @ putin mr PaulFertser
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2020-08-14T22:34:27 < PublicWiFi> okay im sorry but ST documenation is balls compared to TI or AVR lol
2020-08-14T22:34:41 < PublicWiFi> ive been trying to find help learning the st-flash commands to flash this ELF 
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2020-08-14T22:34:58 < PublicWiFi> literally all of the guides i found say use "make flash" but i dont have a make file lol
2020-08-14T22:35:35 < Steffanx> Ask PaulFertser for the right openocd command. He knows it by heart
2020-08-14T22:35:38 < PublicWiFi> and in order to make a make file i need to know the damn switches for st-flash lol
2020-08-14T22:36:03 < PaulFertser> -c "program your.elf verify reset exit"
2020-08-14T22:36:18 < Steffanx> Are you sure PublicWiFi? Didnt you just download Code composter studio for your TI work and Atmel Studio for your AVR work?
2020-08-14T22:37:20 < PaulFertser> "There are many popular ASP&ISP toolkit for AVR, the avrdude is the famous one."
2020-08-14T22:37:21 < Steffanx> but yeah, i think finding the right information on the web when you just started with STM32 can be hard.
2020-08-14T22:37:38 < Steffanx> There are multiple ways, and some stuff is soooo outdated.
2020-08-14T22:39:14 < Steffanx> And if you want  "easy" you can always download the ST tools. The Java joy is what you get though.
2020-08-14T22:41:29 < t4nk_freenode> lol
2020-08-14T22:42:52 < PublicWiFi> nah i use avr-dude on avr stuff
2020-08-14T22:42:59 < PublicWiFi> i dont use their IDE or anything
2020-08-14T22:43:14 < PaulFertser> avrdude, the famous one
2020-08-14T22:43:16 < PublicWiFi> i think i might have it figured out
2020-08-14T22:44:04 < PublicWiFi> hmm i just gotta figure out which memory location is hte correct place to start writing
2020-08-14T22:44:15 < PublicWiFi> im not sure if this has a bootloader already flashed in here, im sure it does
2020-08-14T22:44:38 < PublicWiFi> looks like 0x8000000 might be the spot
2020-08-14T22:45:29 < PaulFertser> PublicWiFi: the stm32 bootloader is in ROM, not flashable. Regarding the address, ELF files have all the data about addressing embedded, so no need to specify it.
2020-08-14T22:45:50 < PublicWiFi> well i compiled this agnostically
2020-08-14T22:45:55 < PublicWiFi> arm agnostic
2020-08-14T22:46:20 < PublicWiFi> it seemed to flash okay at 0x8000000 but unfortunately im not at home to check the board itsself LOL
2020-08-14T22:46:25 < PaulFertser> You can't, you need proper reset vector address.
2020-08-14T22:46:36 < PaulFertser> I mean absolute, so it can't be position-independent.
2020-08-14T22:46:51 < PublicWiFi> well it flashes the data, garabge or not I'm 1 step closer than I was earlier :D
2020-08-14T22:47:08 < Steffanx> start stepping trhough it. see if your registers change
2020-08-14T22:47:13 < Steffanx> no need to "be" there
2020-08-14T22:47:31 < PublicWiFi> oh i did dump the old flash memory
2020-08-14T22:47:35 < PublicWiFi> lemme see where that starts
2020-08-14T22:47:52 < Steffanx> why didnt you get a hex file or a elf?
2020-08-14T22:47:58 < Steffanx> *an
2020-08-14T22:47:59 < PublicWiFi> uhhhh
2020-08-14T22:48:27 < PublicWiFi> i compiled it using arm-non-eabi-gcc -O2 -Wall main.c -o main
2020-08-14T22:48:44 < Steffanx> but usually 0x8000000 should work.
2020-08-14T22:50:55 < Steffanx> Are you really coding in McDonalds PublicWiFi?
2020-08-14T22:51:01 < PublicWiFi> xD
2020-08-14T22:51:14 < PublicWiFi> i wish, some of their fries would be amazing right now
2020-08-14T22:51:35 < Steffanx> noooo, their fries are the most AWFUL ever.
2020-08-14T22:51:43 < Steffanx> Same with almost anything from the donalds
2020-08-14T22:51:53 < PublicWiFi> tbh i dont eat them anymore ever since i went vegetarian
2020-08-14T22:51:56 < PublicWiFi> :(
2020-08-14T22:52:32 < Steffanx> They have fancy salads right? 
2020-08-14T22:52:33 < PublicWiFi> I'm a super newbie when it comes to programming in general but I really want to get into embedded stuff
2020-08-14T22:52:37 < PublicWiFi> i think so!
2020-08-14T22:52:58 < PublicWiFi> I'm thinking of hitting the books hard enough to make persue this as a career shift one day
2020-08-14T22:53:21 < Steffanx> From what to embedded would that be?
2020-08-14T22:53:22 < PaulFertser> I have never eaten anything from them. Probably one fried chip once.
2020-08-14T22:53:42 < PublicWiFi> im a sysadmin now
2020-08-14T22:53:59 < Steffanx> Heh thats a change indeed
2020-08-14T22:54:03 < PublicWiFi> so not a MASSIVE shift but still a significant one
2020-08-14T22:54:10 < PublicWiFi> still in the "tech" umbrella ;P
2020-08-14T22:54:22 < Steffanx> "Does something with computers" right?
2020-08-14T22:54:41 < PublicWiFi> im sure you still have family members ask you to fix their laptops ;P
2020-08-14T22:54:52 < veverak> so
2020-08-14T22:54:55 < Steffanx> so
2020-08-14T22:54:59 < karlp> ok, finally bought myself last years birthday present to myself, getting a brymen bm859s
2020-08-14T22:55:09 < veverak> this is first time I am looking at stm32 USB code (using the ST api/HAL/everything)
2020-08-14T22:55:23 < veverak> what I need is to make 6 virtual com ports to the computer
2020-08-14T22:55:46 < Steffanx> Do you even have enough endpoints for that?
2020-08-14T22:55:51 < veverak> I should have
2020-08-14T22:55:58 < PublicWiFi> thats a helluva DMM
2020-08-14T22:55:59 < veverak> wait
2020-08-14T22:56:16 < veverak> well, I will figure that out
2020-08-14T22:56:20 < veverak> key Q:
2020-08-14T22:56:35 < PublicWiFi> Steffanx: I'm assuming you're dev by trade? 
2020-08-14T22:56:49 < Steffanx> I act like ono :P
2020-08-14T22:56:54 < Steffanx> one*
2020-08-14T22:57:09 < veverak> USBD_Init initializes the UBSD stack, 'USBD_RegisterClass' tells the host that there may be virt consoles, 'USBD_CDC_RegisterInterface' I call 6x times for each virtual com port I want ?
2020-08-14T22:57:21  * veverak is not sure he got the API right
2020-08-14T22:57:51 < Steffanx> i never used the ST stack, so cant tell you
2020-08-14T22:57:56 < PaulFertser> karlp: congrats! What was your previous DMM?
2020-08-14T22:58:52 < PublicWiFi> xD
2020-08-14T22:59:18 < PaulFertser> PublicWiFi: are you really after low-level stuff, building basically from scratch, starting with interrupt table, registers etc? Or is using a good  C library an option for you?
2020-08-14T22:59:43 < PublicWiFi> Honestly it sounds fun.. I've always been pretty drawn to the very low level stuff
2020-08-14T23:00:05 < PublicWiFi> I recently built a z80 breadboard computer and its super fun to tinker with
2020-08-14T23:00:14 < karlp> something similar to this one: https://www.inventelectronics.com/product/digital-multimeter-dt-830b/
2020-08-14T23:00:37 < karlp> the cheapest dick smith model when startedcx university in 97
2020-08-14T23:00:38 < PublicWiFi> idk, I just feel like I would enjoy it. Its all really interesting stuff
2020-08-14T23:01:19 < PublicWiFi> PaulFertser: I've also been hitting C pretty hard. Been working through K&R rev 2 and taking my time with the exercises and such
2020-08-14T23:02:09 < PaulFertser> PublicWiFi: https://vivonomicon.com/2018/04/02/bare-metal-stm32-programming-part-1-hello-arm/
2020-08-14T23:02:31 < PublicWiFi> oh awesome
2020-08-14T23:02:34 < PublicWiFi> thanks for this
2020-08-14T23:02:54 < veverak> so, back here again
2020-08-14T23:02:56 < PaulFertser> PublicWiFi: and if you decide to actually get something working faster than digging through all that, I recommend libopencm3. It has all the necessary makefiles etc.
2020-08-14T23:02:59 < veverak> g4 have 8 endpoints
2020-08-14T23:03:04 < veverak> (usb)
2020-08-14T23:03:14 < veverak> how many is eaten up by VCom port? 2 ?
2020-08-14T23:03:17 < specing> another person lost to C
2020-08-14T23:03:34 < PublicWiFi> specing: not a fan of C? :P
2020-08-14T23:03:35 < Steffanx> heey specing good morning!
2020-08-14T23:03:46 < Steffanx> Glad to see you woke up
2020-08-14T23:04:01 < specing> PublicWiFi: nope
2020-08-14T23:04:06 < PublicWiFi> PaulFertser: thanks! Ill probably do it the "hard way" at least a few times to get the ideas then use this libray to prototyping better lol
2020-08-14T23:04:14 < PublicWiFi> specing: just curious, how come?
2020-08-14T23:04:30 < Steffanx> He met Ada.
2020-08-14T23:04:44 < PaulFertser> karlp: did you never need better accuracy than that? I mean I'm super-surprised if you really didn't have a better DMM (not necessarily True RMS) until now.
2020-08-14T23:04:47 < Steffanx> no, Ada.
2020-08-14T23:04:55 < PublicWiFi> Ada language? lol
2020-08-14T23:05:19 < karlp> PaulFertser: honestly, no, only got this one as it's birthday present money
2020-08-14T23:05:37 < karlp> normally it's continuity or "does myh regulator work"
2020-08-14T23:05:50 < karlp> but I've also _made_ it so that that's all I need, because that's all I could do I guess?
2020-08-14T23:06:09 < specing> PublicWiFi: I use Ada
2020-08-14T23:06:20 < PaulFertser> karlp: and what about current mearusements? 200 mA max seems very limiting.
2020-08-14T23:06:26 < PublicWiFi> i think you're the first person I've ever met that uses that
2020-08-14T23:06:38 < specing> you are likely correct
2020-08-14T23:06:43 < Steffanx> and the only one :D
2020-08-14T23:06:43 < PublicWiFi> how did you arrive at ada and not something more "mainstream" like c++?
2020-08-14T23:06:53 < karlp> PaulFertser: yeah, just didn't really do lower measurements.
2020-08-14T23:06:56 < PublicWiFi> if you want OOP i mean
2020-08-14T23:07:00 < specing> Ada is the only embedded language that does not suck
2020-08-14T23:07:05 < specing> C sucks, C++ sucks
2020-08-14T23:07:06 < PublicWiFi> xD
2020-08-14T23:07:06 < karlp> I've got better at work, this is for my own one.
2020-08-14T23:07:34 < karlp> but yes, looking forward to having useful low current measurements :)
2020-08-14T23:07:47 < PaulFertser> PublicWiFi: C++ is damn complicated and is hard to use in a safe way. Ada is well known not because of OOP but because of more compile-time safety it offers.
2020-08-14T23:07:57 < PublicWiFi> ah
2020-08-14T23:08:06 < PublicWiFi> yeah C++ is a bloated whale for what I've seen
2020-08-14T23:08:47 < PaulFertser> And C is rather low-level so many useful abstractions can't be built in a sane way. And is also very unsafe.
2020-08-14T23:08:55 < PublicWiFi> specing: do you do embedded work professionally?
2020-08-14T23:09:04 < specing> PublicWiFi: sadly not
2020-08-14T23:09:07 < PublicWiFi> ah
2020-08-14T23:10:54 < PaulFertser> PublicWiFi: in fact, proper C++ code for embedded is zero-cost, you can't write any better in C (and sometimes you can generate more efficient code with either C++ or some external tool that would generate C code for you).
2020-08-14T23:14:58 < PublicWiFi> i always thought there would be at least a little extra overhead in C++
2020-08-14T23:15:51 < veverak> no reason for it
2020-08-14T23:16:54 < PaulFertser> PublicWiFi: well, some features are zero-cost (everything in compile time), some not, one has to choose accordingly.
2020-08-14T23:19:40 < PublicWiFi> I see
2020-08-14T23:20:09 < PaulFertser> karlp: I was thinking about higher current actually. When you want to measure 1 or 2 amps. But I see you had an separate "unfused" jack for that. My similar dirtcheap-DMM doesn't have detachable probes, hence the confusion.
2020-08-14T23:20:42 < PaulFertser> s/jack/socket/
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2020-08-14T23:39:14 < specing> I'd like to see a DMM with a case designed such that you can wrap the cables along its sides
2020-08-14T23:40:35 < PaulFertser> That's what I have :)
2020-08-14T23:40:56 < specing> and it's dirt cheap?
2020-08-14T23:40:57 < PaulFertser> DT-831B+
2020-08-14T23:40:58 < specing> which model?
2020-08-14T23:43:51 < PaulFertser> Yes, dirt cheap. Good thing about it is that the probes are secured and do not damage anything else inside a backpack. Bad thing about it is that the probes suck and the wire can break at any moment...
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2020-08-14T23:50:03 < PaulFertser> specing: https://www.aliexpress.com/item/32714383344.html I think I can recommend it as something you carry along for emergency 
2020-08-14T23:50:14 < PaulFertser> car repairs in the field or some such
2020-08-14T23:50:22 < specing> do the probes "click in"?
2020-08-14T23:50:31 < specing> ah, secured
2020-08-14T23:50:33 < PaulFertser> No, soldered to the PCB inside
2020-08-14T23:50:44 < PaulFertser> Probes yes, kinda click in.
2020-08-14T23:51:00 < PaulFertser> They sit tight in there
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2020-08-14T23:53:03  * specing thought about using it for electric bicycle field repairs, but then remembered that an electric bicycle is a plug in hybrid and that he can always pedal if the electric side fails
2020-08-14T23:53:31 < PaulFertser> It wouldn't harm to have such a device handy.
2020-08-14T23:54:10 < PaulFertser> You wouldn't be happy pedalling it for 20 km I guess.
2020-08-14T23:54:16 < Cracki> i have a similar one in my bag too. most frequent use is testing battery voltages.
2020-08-14T23:55:53 < PaulFertser> And there's a trimpot inside so you can calibrate for the voltage range you care about most.
--- Day changed Sat Aug 15 2020
2020-08-15T00:04:35 < Steffanx> Going to buy PaulFertser. lol
2020-08-15T00:04:44 < Steffanx> +, somewherein that sentence
2020-08-15T00:06:26 < Steffanx> although something smaller might be nicer
2020-08-15T00:10:50 < Steffanx> or is it smaller than i think it is.. hm
2020-08-15T00:10:54 < Steffanx> need banana for scale
2020-08-15T00:11:51 < Cracki> eggplant for scale
2020-08-15T00:14:16 < Steffanx> 🍆 
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2020-08-15T00:21:11 < zyp> specing, how do you expect your electric bicycle to fail during use, and how do you expect to fix it right there and then?
2020-08-15T00:22:42 < zyp> IME the only way they commonly stop working during use is if you keep going until you run out of battery
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2020-08-15T00:23:26 < zyp> and you don't really need a multimeter to diagnose that :)
2020-08-15T00:24:28 < Cracki> it's a tricorder. tricorders give you superpowers.
2020-08-15T00:25:07 < zyp> also, it's not very fun to pedal an ebike without the electric assist, particularly not when the reason you don't have electric assist is because you already biked 50km and used up the battery
2020-08-15T00:25:12 < zyp> been there, done that
2020-08-15T00:25:46 < Steffanx> Why you do that?
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2020-08-15T00:26:35 < specing> PaulFertser: I'm used to 50+ km unpowered bicycle trips
2020-08-15T00:26:45 < specing> PaulFertser: the electric bicycle is just for commute
2020-08-15T00:27:39 < zyp> Steffanx, how are you gonna know the range if you never go far enough to run out?
2020-08-15T00:28:07 < Steffanx> Go in circles around the house?
2020-08-15T00:28:10 < zyp> specing, ebikes are harder to pedal unassisted than a plain bicycle
2020-08-15T00:28:20 < Cracki> estimate consumption on shorter trip, extrapolate?
2020-08-15T00:28:21 < specing> zyp: a good electric bicycle should feel like a normal one when power is off
2020-08-15T00:28:32 < specing> zyp: no they aren't
2020-08-15T00:28:37 < zyp> Steffanx, I were returning a rental car
2020-08-15T00:28:41 < Steffanx> if i were going to test that, i would make sure to not go to far.
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2020-08-15T00:28:53 < Steffanx> ah, multi-purpose trip. more efficient :)
2020-08-15T00:29:13 < zyp> stopped by at home, put the bike in the car, drove to the rental shop, delivered the car and biked home
2020-08-15T00:30:23 < specing> my e-bike is a converted normal one, the motor is in the rear hub and there is a one-way clutch so it's almost 0 additional effort to pedal it when off
2020-08-15T00:30:55 < Cracki> how to run out of fuel, dick around instead of land at a military base, and crash to your death https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fLlWf-Fk_YM
2020-08-15T00:30:55 < zyp> specing, apart from weight and shit
2020-08-15T00:31:03 < specing> so on commute if the electric side breaks I can just pedal it normally and if my side breaks (I fall and scratch my knees or something), I can just ride the button
2020-08-15T00:31:12 < specing> zyp: it's only +5kg
2020-08-15T00:31:25 < zyp> IIRC 7 for mine
2020-08-15T00:33:36 < zyp> but yeah, I've got a BBS01 and I don't think it freewheels the same way
2020-08-15T00:34:56 < specing> it probably does have a one way clutch
2020-08-15T00:36:07 < specing> if you are used to road bikes then maybe you find the wide pedals weird or something
2020-08-15T00:36:09 < zyp> it's a mid motor, it doesn't need to, it just relies on the freewheeling shit the bicycle already does to keep the wheel from pulling the chain
2020-08-15T00:36:10 < karlp> PaulFertser: loks like my old dmm is a dt-830d, not the b. I have the square wave out and continuity like this one: https://www.indiamart.com/proddetail/digital-multimeter-4701525273.html
2020-08-15T00:36:34 < specing> zyp: it needs to freewheel when you pedal and the motor is off
2020-08-15T00:36:39 < PaulFertser> specing: I thought electric would be much less suitable for pedalling than the bike you're used to.
2020-08-15T00:36:40 < specing> else you get a generator ;p
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2020-08-15T00:37:16 < specing> PaulFertser: that's what salesmen with their 30kg heaps of "ebike" steel want you to believe
2020-08-15T00:37:20 < zyp> specing, well, duh, that's why pedaling gets heavier
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2020-08-15T00:38:09 < specing> zyp: it must have a clutch
2020-08-15T00:38:17 < zyp> why?
2020-08-15T00:38:35 < specing> have you ever pedalled a bicycle generator?
2020-08-15T00:38:48 < specing> they are found at tech museums and such
2020-08-15T00:38:54 < specing> now that's hard to pedal
2020-08-15T00:39:39 < PaulFertser> btw, electric monowheels are actually generating when pulled
2020-08-15T00:39:41 < zyp> depends how much load the generator sees
2020-08-15T00:40:18 < PaulFertser> specing: so how much does your ebike weigh?
2020-08-15T00:40:34 < zyp> PaulFertser, I think mine is around 12kg total
2020-08-15T00:40:41 < zyp> but I might misremember
2020-08-15T00:41:04 < PaulFertser> zyp: that would be lighter than an average MTB...
2020-08-15T00:41:05 < specing> PaulFertser: I honestly have no idea
2020-08-15T00:41:45 < specing> PaulFertser: but it's an alu frame 27.5"er... so probably ~13kg? My mtnbike is 13kg
2020-08-15T00:42:02 < PaulFertser> zyp: and the range is about 50 km with 25 km/h average speed?
2020-08-15T00:42:02 < specing> (that's without e-stuff)
2020-08-15T00:42:25 < karlp> specing:, you're smoking bad crack, wrt, "specing | zyp: a good electric bicycle should feel like a normal one when power is off"
2020-08-15T00:42:37 < zyp> PaulFertser, I don't remember average speed, and I'm pedaling in addition
2020-08-15T00:43:26 < specing> karlp: I have an e-bicycle and it does feel like a normal one when power is off
2020-08-15T00:43:49 < karlp> where "normal" for you is you rebike with the power off
2020-08-15T00:43:54 < karlp> now take off all the extra weight. it's massive
2020-08-15T00:44:02 < specing> it feels exactly as it did before it had an electric motor installed
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2020-08-15T00:44:12 < zyp> hmm
2020-08-15T00:44:19 < PaulFertser> Probably specing lives on a plain?
2020-08-15T00:44:20 < zyp> I wanna go weigh my bike now, brb
2020-08-15T00:44:31 < specing> actually, only the bumps feel bumpier (due to the +2kg weight in rear wheel)
2020-08-15T00:44:56 < specing> PaulFertser: nope, even my commute is 100m elevation over 15km
2020-08-15T00:45:07 < karlp> I think that counts as a plain.
2020-08-15T00:49:50 < zyp> okay, I misremembered, apparently my bike is 22.5kg or so, wife's bike is 24.8
2020-08-15T00:51:38 < zyp> maybe it was 12kg before the conversion then
2020-08-15T00:54:28 < Steffanx> zyp's wife to zyp: "WTF are you doing". "I'm weighing my bike" [weird face response]
2020-08-15T00:54:32 < Steffanx> i can see it happen.
2020-08-15T00:54:48 < Cracki> honey, do you think my bike looks fat with this battery
2020-08-15T00:54:55 < Steffanx> :)
2020-08-15T00:55:39 < PaulFertser> What if you plan a 100 km trip? Does it mean you'll need to have a rest for an hour or two to charge it in the middle?
2020-08-15T00:55:52 < zyp> https://shared.cdn.smp.schibsted.com/v2/images/d4e3f527-4f4c-459a-91b1-1391bc09d384?fit=crop&h=900&w=1600&s=ed35dc0696ce07f2ee6ee2dd2c638571fb966146 <- wife got one of these on the right
2020-08-15T00:55:56 < specing> zyp: your bike should go on a diet :P
2020-08-15T00:56:39 < zyp> it was affordable and the design is pretty tought through
2020-08-15T00:56:56 < specing> PaulFertser: you plan those trips with a normal bike :P
2020-08-15T00:57:30 < zyp> or a car :p
2020-08-15T00:58:13 < PaulFertser> specing: so you need to have one road bike for cool road training, one MTB for trips like that and one ebike for commuting?
2020-08-15T00:58:53 < specing> yes but I don't do "road training"
2020-08-15T00:58:58 < zyp> but really, if you wanna go longer just turn down the assist level so you have to do more work by foot
2020-08-15T00:59:05 < specing> PaulFertser: I have only two bikes
2020-08-15T01:01:20 < zyp> personally I find it more fun to go faster than to go longer, so I usually keep the assist level on max and still pedal as hard as I feel like
2020-08-15T01:01:31 < PaulFertser> zyp: (bike on the right) I thought hub gearboxes fully replaced derailers for utility bikes. And that odd frame shape, isn't it worse than the traditional triangular frame in all regards?
2020-08-15T01:02:02 < zyp> never seen a step through frame before?
2020-08-15T01:02:29 < Steffanx> Here we call that a bike for female..
2020-08-15T01:02:31 < zyp> or «woman's bike» as they are commonly called
2020-08-15T01:02:31 < PaulFertser> zyp: never talked to someone who \thinks it's a good idea
2020-08-15T01:03:03 < PaulFertser> So could never understand the rationale
2020-08-15T01:03:08 < Steffanx> i wonder how woman with a skirt get on a bike in russia... 
2020-08-15T01:03:16 < Steffanx> *women
2020-08-15T01:03:33 < Steffanx> i mean, people.
2020-08-15T01:03:48 < zyp> PaulFertser, well, you don't have to lift the foot over the bar
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2020-08-15T01:04:17 < PaulFertser> Steffanx: I've seen "babushkas" riding bikes with normal triangular frame in skirts. Didn't seem to be problematic.
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2020-08-15T01:04:52 < PaulFertser> zyp: I can understand the appeal for people who have health problems that restrict the movements. But other than that I'm still puzzled.
2020-08-15T01:06:59 < Steffanx> According to wikipedia skirts are the reason why a "woman's bike" exists.
2020-08-15T01:09:13 < zyp> speaking of bikes, kid loves going for a ride: https://bin.jvnv.net/file/PbXbL.jpg
2020-08-15T01:10:07 < Steffanx> :)
2020-08-15T01:10:27 < PaulFertser> Steffanx: I can imagine if the requirement is that the skirt always covers the knees then it can make sense. But there's no such a requirement usually in the EU.
2020-08-15T01:12:22 < Cracki> I think women want to keep their legs together without needing the EU to require it
2020-08-15T01:12:35 < PaulFertser> zyp: nice :) I guess it's not scary to be a passenger until you start riding yourself.
2020-08-15T01:12:40 < Cracki> it's also why "ladies" ride horseback the way they do
2020-08-15T01:13:01 < PaulFertser> Cracki: in the 19th century, probably
2020-08-15T01:13:21 < Cracki> there's a south park episode where mr(?) garrison invents a "fun" bicycle
2020-08-15T01:13:29 < Cracki> that's very 21st century
2020-08-15T01:14:02 < PaulFertser> Do you mean you would prefer ladies to continue riding in suboptimal ways?
2020-08-15T01:14:10 < Cracki> I didn't say that.
2020-08-15T01:14:35 < Cracki> I'm saying people have their reasons that don't include "it's the law"
2020-08-15T01:14:53 < Steffanx> Suboptimal how PaulFertser? Because of the possible flex etc.?
2020-08-15T01:16:17 < PaulFertser> Steffanx: yes, flexing and the frame seems to be heavier that way too. Also, cabling (for the rear brake).
2020-08-15T01:17:02 < Cracki> also it's mighty convenient to "step through". I think my first bicycle (with side wheels) was like that, and graduating to a "men's bicycle", raising the leg like a dog, felt inconvenient
2020-08-15T01:17:05 < PaulFertser> And less (or no) space for the frame bag should you want one.
2020-08-15T01:17:40 < Cracki> bags around the rear wheel
2020-08-15T01:18:02 < Cracki> also basket ahead of handle bar
2020-08-15T01:18:20 < Steffanx> you dont HAVE to buy a woman's bike PaulFertser. Dont forget many people in dutchland use a bike for short trips
2020-08-15T01:18:28 < Steffanx> to the super market and back.
2020-08-15T01:18:34 < Steffanx> 1km away.
2020-08-15T01:18:50 < PaulFertser> When considering bicycles with baskets in front it usually doesn't matter what the frame looks like etc. You can go 15 km/h on any bicycle with about the same efficiency.
2020-08-15T01:19:30 < PaulFertser> Steffanx: in long skirts? but you need the knees to be freely moving to pedal anyway.
2020-08-15T01:19:53 < Steffanx> i think the long skirt issue was mainly a thing in the past.
2020-08-15T01:20:00 < PaulFertser> So what is it now?
2020-08-15T01:20:16 < Cracki> trying to imagine a dude in a skirt on a men's bike... the skirt drapes over the bar... ehhhh
2020-08-15T01:20:18 < specing> "tight short skirt" issue
2020-08-15T01:20:20 < specing> haha
2020-08-15T01:20:27 < Steffanx> haha, yes that too specing.
2020-08-15T01:20:39 < Steffanx> living the leg over the rear of the bike <3
2020-08-15T01:20:41 < Cracki> yes the EU should require short shorts
2020-08-15T01:20:43 < Steffanx> *lifting
2020-08-15T01:20:46 < PaulFertser> I do not have a suitable skirt to test it on an MTB. But I do not think the frame would be an issue.
2020-08-15T01:21:24 < Cracki> it would look like an enormous erection
2020-08-15T01:21:29 < Cracki> apart from that, eh
2020-08-15T01:21:39 < Steffanx> Ask Mrs. Fertser, PaulFertser ;)
2020-08-15T01:21:52 < Cracki> guess it'd be a hassle to handle the skirt while throwing your leg over the saddle
2020-08-15T01:22:06 < PaulFertser> Steffanx: you just step a little to the side of the bike, lean it to you, and lift the leg over the frame, it's often easier than doing it over the rear (and saddle).
2020-08-15T01:22:16 < PaulFertser> Cracki: indeed, but that's not needed.
2020-08-15T01:22:21 < Cracki> women don't exactly wear kilts that have infinite mobility
2020-08-15T01:23:06 < Cracki> take a random "board of directors' mattress" type of stereotype, with an appropriately long but very tight and tubeish skirt. can't swing a leg
2020-08-15T01:23:18 < PaulFertser> Can't ride a bike too
2020-08-15T01:23:21 < Cracki> (lisa cuddy if you know house md)
2020-08-15T01:23:27 < Cracki> can only be ridden
2020-08-15T01:23:57 < Steffanx> You should try a skirt, im pretty sure you can move your legs pretty well in it, PaulFertser
2020-08-15T01:23:58 < PaulFertser> Steffanx: I do not remember anything suitable from her clothing, no.
2020-08-15T01:24:33 < Steffanx> unless you bike like a "guy" with O-legs.
2020-08-15T01:24:35 < Cracki> big towel should do
2020-08-15T01:24:48 < PaulFertser> Steffanx: a tubish "official" one? Well, my idea so far is that if it's free enough to pedal than it's not a problem to lift the leg over the frame (not over the saddle) too.
2020-08-15T01:25:05 < specing> wrap yourself in bed sheeting
2020-08-15T01:25:18 < Cracki> time for tiki torch party
2020-08-15T01:25:34 < Steffanx> i dont want to see your underwear when you get on your bike, PaulFertser :P
2020-08-15T01:27:12 < PaulFertser> Steffanx: well, as a matter of fact I often ride in regular sports bike shorts, so you can call it underwear I guess.
2020-08-15T01:29:31 < PaulFertser> I might make a test with a big towel, it should be a good enough approximation.
2020-08-15T01:32:22 < PaulFertser> Steffanx: why would I care btw? And is underwear a bad thing somehow?
2020-08-15T01:48:01 < Steffanx> Lol PaulFertser . This is going nowhere...
2020-08-15T01:48:45 < PaulFertser> Steffanx: will you do a test with a skirt to prove me wrong?
2020-08-15T01:48:55 < Steffanx> Lolno
2020-08-15T01:49:08 < PaulFertser> You must be hating science!
2020-08-15T01:50:57 < Steffanx> Like I have a skirt ;)
2020-08-15T01:53:14 < PaulFertser> How about Mrs.X?
2020-08-15T01:54:55  * t4nk_freenode suspects Steffanx to be a - it puts the lotion on its skin, or else it gets the hose again - type of chap
2020-08-15T01:56:13 < Steffanx> There is none PaulFertser.
2020-08-15T02:01:23 < t4nk_freenode> too cute I guess :b
2020-08-15T02:01:48 < Steffanx> Ofcourse.
2020-08-15T02:02:08 < PaulFertser> https://www.nydailynews.com/news/national/ny-police-buy-autistic-boy-new-bike-20200812-mlaoilz2fvdcjbbt22vzqwewg4-story.html
2020-08-15T02:03:35 < [b]enis> "plz don't defund us"
2020-08-15T02:04:16 < Steffanx> Unfortunately, our website is currently unavailable in most European countries. 
2020-08-15T02:04:22 < Steffanx> Too bad PaulFertser 
2020-08-15T02:04:40 < Steffanx> Russia can see it, but not EU approved 
2020-08-15T02:04:53 < PaulFertser> Russia is not Europe :(
2020-08-15T02:05:25 < Steffanx> You wish it was uh?
2020-08-15T02:06:05 < PaulFertser> Steffanx: basically the boy left his brand-new push bike under a "free furniture" sign and it was taken away. Then cops decided to buy him a new one out of their pockets. Then the bike shop owner paid for everything himself. Just another odd meaningless story...
2020-08-15T02:06:30 < Steffanx> Lol ok
2020-08-15T02:06:50 < PaulFertser> Steffanx: of course I wished but I'm in minority here.
2020-08-15T02:07:33 < Steffanx> No plans to move? Ever?
2020-08-15T02:08:24 < PaulFertser> It's not like you guys make it exactly easy
2020-08-15T02:08:40 < PaulFertser> But I might, who knows.
2020-08-15T02:09:01 < Steffanx> I dont feel responsible, sorry ;)
2020-08-15T02:09:10 < PaulFertser> Being constantly in a state somewhat resembling depression doesn't help too
2020-08-15T02:09:55 < PaulFertser> Steffanx: do you think it's fair that even as a tourist if I want to visit your country I must give all my 10 fingerprints to your authorities as if I'm some criminal suspect?
2020-08-15T02:11:35 < PaulFertser> Steffanx: and I also must plan all my tourist trip in advance and book hotels etc. And then buy plane tickets. And additional health insurance. And a statement from my bank and from my job. And then apply for visa with all those documents and maybe it's approved?
2020-08-15T02:12:15 < Steffanx> Lolno, but.. 
2020-08-15T02:12:57 < Steffanx> I meant I dont feel personally responsible for any of this. Since you said "You guys..." ;)
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2020-08-15T02:13:20 < PaulFertser> I didn't vote for putin so I do not feel personally responsible.
2020-08-15T02:13:27 < Steffanx> :)
2020-08-15T02:13:38 < Steffanx> Didn't everyone vote for put in?
2020-08-15T02:13:53 < Steffanx> Like everyone voted for this Belarusian guy
2020-08-15T02:14:32 < [b]enis> It's a Crimean Front - It's a Put in
2020-08-15T02:14:33 < PaulFertser> Nope, here in russia the announced results are closer to the reality. And most probably the Belarussian results are all fake. Huge difference.
2020-08-15T02:15:52 < PaulFertser> The majority of the russians support putin. The majority of Belarus citizens is most probably against lukashenko.
2020-08-15T02:20:03 < Cracki> how frequent is it, anywhere, that the media support one candidate/party/policy and the people support a different one?
2020-08-15T02:22:05 < PaulFertser> Different medias are supposed to support different candidates.
2020-08-15T02:22:39 < PaulFertser> Not the case for russian federal TV channels of course.
2020-08-15T02:24:12 < Cracki> I'm sure there are more countries with (state) media supporting politics against the population's wishes
2020-08-15T02:24:36 < Cracki> media can influence opinion too
2020-08-15T02:25:31 < Cracki> the different media companies aren't all that different. they're often owned by the handful of same mega corps anyway.
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2020-08-15T04:07:49 < upgrdman> lol https://twitter.com/BlackGirlsCode
2020-08-15T04:07:54 < upgrdman> dongs ^
2020-08-15T04:08:43 < upgrdman> i guess they need cheerleaders / a safe space.
2020-08-15T04:10:03 < Steffanx> Your almost as bad as mr blaxter sometimes mr upgrdman 
2020-08-15T04:10:19 < upgrdman> :)
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2020-08-15T04:42:38 < Cracki> good link thx I'll pass it on to the rest of the gang
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2020-08-15T05:09:16 < jadew`> that girl in the banner has more white in her than she has black tho
2020-08-15T05:10:05 < jadew`> how do you identify yourself in that situation?
2020-08-15T05:13:29 < jadew`> I need a movie
2020-08-15T05:20:47 < Cracki> I watched blootshot (2020) again yesterday
2020-08-15T05:20:54 < Cracki> smarter than the average movie
2020-08-15T05:21:11 < jadew`> I think I saw it
2020-08-15T05:21:57 < jadew`> yeah, saw it, wasn't bad
2020-08-15T05:24:13 < jadew`> man... yandex is so much better than goolge for images
2020-08-15T05:27:58 < Cracki> indeed it is. google for "twink" gives me pro porn that is sold as twink but isn't really. yandex gives me the real deal.
2020-08-15T05:28:22 < Cracki> I wouldn't have expected this understanding of faggotry from a russian company
2020-08-15T05:30:46 < jadew`> they have great image matching algorithm
2020-08-15T05:31:50 < jadew`> google is telling where else that image is being used
2020-08-15T05:32:00 < jadew`> yandex is giving me the name of the model and her instagram account
2020-08-15T05:32:03 < Cracki> how do you cope with yandex being all russian? I don't see a way to set it to english
2020-08-15T05:32:12 < jadew`> it's english for me
2020-08-15T05:32:16 < Cracki> heheh yes yandex is smart like that
2020-08-15T05:32:22 < Cracki> huh ok I'll have to investigate
2020-08-15T05:32:33 < Cracki> ah, yandex.com not .ru
2020-08-15T05:32:40 < jadew`> yeah
2020-08-15T05:33:00 < Cracki> google is a little too autistic for its own good
2020-08-15T05:33:22 < Cracki> or they stopped giving a fuck all around
2020-08-15T05:34:58 < jadew`> the algorithm has decided that they would make more money if you clicked on those things instead
2020-08-15T05:37:01 < Cracki> they shove all their talent into wastes of time like the google assistant, which is only ever used to ask the tin lady trollish questions, and all the brain power is kept away from improving the basic experience
2020-08-15T05:38:01 < Cracki> think about it, google isn't creating value, it's taking money from people who want to buy your attention, which google steals from you. it's parasitic.
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2020-08-15T13:48:41 < Hamilton> Has anyone any experience with Thingsboard?
2020-08-15T13:49:18 < mawk> what devilish thing is that now?
2020-08-15T13:50:39 < Hamilton> mawk, A ready-made IoT solution for dashboard/webserver/infra
2020-08-15T13:52:54 < [b]enis> i think 2019-2020 is years of "Get Started" / "Learn More"
2020-08-15T13:54:30 < [b]enis> 2020 HackerNews Koolaid Tech Site Checklist: Giant Black Lives Matter White Guilt Apology Hero Below Navbar [x], Get Started Button [x], Accept Cookies Modal Dialog [x]
2020-08-15T13:55:49 < mawk> lol
2020-08-15T13:56:44 < [b]enis> Material Design [x]
2020-08-15T13:57:24 < [b]enis> it's like when bootstrap first released and the entire internet looked like bootstrap
2020-08-15T14:11:29 < Hamilton> [b]enis, tbf, most of HN showcases are cool projects
2020-08-15T14:12:04 < Hamilton> It's a community with a very high SNR...better than reddit or /g/
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2020-08-15T14:14:50 < [b]enis> Hamilton: http://n-gate.com
2020-08-15T14:16:53 < Hamilton> [b]enis, What am I looking at? Also that about page game my CPU cancer...it wants it clock cycles back
2020-08-15T14:17:03 < Hamilton> %s/game/gave
2020-08-15T14:19:30 < [b]enis> that's part of the joke
2020-08-15T14:19:40 < [b]enis> was the font really blurry too and hurt your eyes?
2020-08-15T14:20:15 < Hamilton> http://i.imgur.com/7bXMMVn.png  lollzz...this was legit though :D
2020-08-15T14:20:49 < Hamilton> [b]enis, Do you actually also comment your view or you just dump them in your blog?
2020-08-15T14:20:50 < [b]enis> "Grimly and with little relish, the Rust Evangelism Strike Force marches into the fray to declare that their savior will live through the fall of the empire that spawned it, because every other programming language ever conceived is a crime in the eyes of the Lord. It was worth it all, we are told, for the code that was writ in the tongue of the Heavens is secure, and will dwell in eternity, yea
2020-08-15T14:20:51 < [b]enis> though the hand that hath typed it is shitcanned."
2020-08-15T14:21:14 < [b]enis> Hamilton: oh no. i am not the genius who created n-gate.com
2020-08-15T14:21:30 < [b]enis> whoever that is. they're one of the greats.
2020-08-15T14:22:43 < Hamilton> <p>Hacker News is an echo chamber focusing on computer posturing and self-aggrandizement. It is run by Paul Graham's investment fund and sociopath incubator, Y Combinator. In general, content that can be submitted is defined as "anything that gratifies one's ineffectual curiosity".</p>
2020-08-15T14:22:43 < Hamilton> <p>Free and Open Source Software Developers' European Meeting (FOSDEM) is a non-commercial, volunteer-organized European mistake centered on free and open-source attention whoring. It is aimed at TEDx wannabes and anyone interested in the free and open-source noisemaking movement. It aims to enable social media engagement specialists to meet and to promote the awareness and use of themselves.</p>
2020-08-15T14:22:51 < Hamilton> Why Paul Graham is sociopath?
2020-08-15T14:23:51 < [b]enis> it's a parody
2020-08-15T14:24:28 < [b]enis> it's like babylonbee but instead of intentionally fake news, it annotates fake hackernews
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2020-08-15T16:28:16 < Mangy_Dog> Can anyolne see any obviouse reason why my board might hang on boot? https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/695271473308237985/744185617801543780/unknown.png 
2020-08-15T16:28:32 < Mangy_Dog> ive not missed out a special pin or something?
2020-08-15T16:28:44 < Mangy_Dog> or wired my boot low when it shoudl be high or reset oin
2020-08-15T16:28:47 < Mangy_Dog> pin
2020-08-15T16:30:28 < Steffanx> Did you try attaching a debugging to see where it hangs?
2020-08-15T16:30:45 < Steffanx> Debugger*
2020-08-15T16:31:15 < Steffanx> Could it be faulting for example?
2020-08-15T16:32:43 < Mangy_Dog> onnly got one of those stlink clones
2020-08-15T16:34:30 < karlp> if it's a clone, it still works.
2020-08-15T16:34:41 < karlp> if it's just some ewaste, then sure, pretend you don't own a debugger
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2020-08-15T16:36:25 < Mangy_Dog> well i can program with it :p
2020-08-15T16:36:42 < Mangy_Dog> only got swclk and swdio and ground connected though
2020-08-15T16:36:47 < Mangy_Dog> on and 3v3
2020-08-15T16:36:54 < Mangy_Dog> not swim
2020-08-15T16:37:31 < karlp> swim is for stm8s
2020-08-15T16:37:38 < karlp> swclk and swdio is for debugging.
2020-08-15T16:37:43 < karlp> you're flæashing via the debug interface
2020-08-15T16:37:57 < karlp> now it's time to use the debugger, like youv'e told _countless_ times over the last few months, to debug.
2020-08-15T16:38:46 < Mangy_Dog> right now even this wont run #include "Arduino.h" void setup(){ Serial1.begin(9600); Serial1.println("started");}
2020-08-15T16:38:46 < Mangy_Dog> void loop(){}
2020-08-15T16:39:04 < Mangy_Dog> i know i know but i couldnt get it to work before
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2020-08-15T16:40:10 < Mangy_Dog> and what i mean is i cant even get that serial out to print
2020-08-15T16:40:25 < Mangy_Dog> tried both serial and serial1
2020-08-15T16:40:48 < Mangy_Dog> ive ruled out power issues
2020-08-15T16:42:01 < Mangy_Dog> ane i would love a propper debug and debug print out through stlink
2020-08-15T16:42:24 < Mangy_Dog> but it never worked and when i came back to ask for help getting it working i got no reponse from anyone so i gave up on it after a week of trying
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2020-08-15T16:45:32 < karlp> that's not at all true
2020-08-15T16:45:46 < karlp> you generally jsut ignored all the advice you were given.
2020-08-15T16:46:13 < Mangy_Dog> no i didnt ignore the advise at all
2020-08-15T16:46:36 < Mangy_Dog> but if your saying... installing linux, was the advice i ignored then fine... no i cant setu a linux system right now
2020-08-15T16:46:55 < karlp> openocd -f interface/stlink.cfg -f target/stm32f1x.cfg in one window, arm-none-eabi-gdb your-elf in another
2020-08-15T16:47:02 < karlp> gdb> tar ext :3333
2020-08-15T16:47:06 < karlp> gdb> load
2020-08-15T16:47:10 < karlp> gdb> run
2020-08-15T16:47:20 < karlp> gdb> ctrl-c to see where it's hung
2020-08-15T16:47:26 < karlp> gdb> bt to get a backtrace
2020-08-15T16:47:33 < karlp> we've done this before.
2020-08-15T16:47:49 < karlp> but "here's a schematic, why does my code hang?" is never really going to get you very far.
2020-08-15T16:48:08 < Mangy_Dog> Karlp.... Its not my code. the mcu just hangs
2020-08-15T16:48:12 < karlp> ahh
2020-08-15T16:48:22 < karlp> ok, so  you _know_ the answer then, so y ou don't need help.
2020-08-15T16:48:30 < Mangy_Dog> the whole point was i posted a empty sketch with just a serial out print. and it didnt print
2020-08-15T16:48:51 < Mangy_Dog> i was asking if anything obviouse did i make a mistake i over looked in the wireup
2020-08-15T16:49:05 < Mangy_Dog> I dont know why you need to make this some bone to pick
2020-08-15T16:49:07 < karlp> you compared to your own working stuff first before asking others do so right?
2020-08-15T16:49:13 < Mangy_Dog> yes
2020-08-15T16:49:23 < Mangy_Dog> This board is directly against the dev kit i made earlier
2020-08-15T16:49:30 < Mangy_Dog> be it a few pins rearranged
2020-08-15T16:51:31 < Steffanx> Soldering issues ruled out?
2020-08-15T16:51:41 < Mangy_Dog> yeah
2020-08-15T16:51:46 < Mangy_Dog> looked over the board no bridges
2020-08-15T16:52:08 < karlp> you can debug in cubeide too, if you'd prefer that path
2020-08-15T16:52:34 < karlp> you can save yourself a lot of trouble by just doing it one time
2020-08-15T16:53:40 < Steffanx> There's more than bridges. Like.. no connection at all etc. ;)
2020-08-15T16:53:52 < Mangy_Dog> well loks like the pins are on
2020-08-15T16:53:55 < Mangy_Dog> contacted
2020-08-15T16:53:58 < Steffanx> Or you just fried something. 
2020-08-15T16:54:17 < Mangy_Dog> possibly but if the chip was fied, would it program?
2020-08-15T16:54:31 < karlp> use your debugger, find out.
2020-08-15T16:54:39 < Mangy_Dog> well it connects
2020-08-15T16:54:40 < karlp> maybe you have shorts you can't see.
2020-08-15T16:54:40 < Steffanx> I had the joy at work with a uart rx getting sorted to ground "out of the blue"
2020-08-15T16:54:57 < karlp> find out if your code is running, and it's hw, or it's hung, and it's sw
2020-08-15T16:55:03 < Mangy_Dog> ive checked serial shorts
2020-08-15T16:55:08 < karlp> use the tools you have that can narrow your scope.
2020-08-15T16:55:41 < Mangy_Dog> yes ive been probing and checking with the circuit tester for most of the day
2020-08-15T16:57:46 < Mangy_Dog> dling cube ide
2020-08-15T16:57:47 < karlp> and the debugger for your sw?
2020-08-15T16:58:11 < Mangy_Dog> thats fine too
2020-08-15T16:58:31 < karlp> this is what normally seems to happen, you decide it's one thing, ignore any advice to look at anything that's not what you have decided, then wonder what's wrong.
2020-08-15T16:59:12 < Mangy_Dog> what are you on about?
2020-08-15T16:59:20 < Mangy_Dog> ive already said i spent the whole day checking for shorts
2020-08-15T16:59:27 < Mangy_Dog> making sure connections are made
2020-08-15T16:59:53 < Mangy_Dog> it really sounds like you just want a moan at me 
2020-08-15T17:00:00 < Mangy_Dog> regardless of what im doing
2020-08-15T17:00:13 < Mangy_Dog> im even downloading cube ide
2020-08-15T17:00:15 < Mangy_Dog> just like yous aid
2020-08-15T17:00:18 < Mangy_Dog> and you still moan at me
2020-08-15T17:00:54 < karlp> you'
2020-08-15T17:01:10 < karlp> ve been suggested to use a debugger _repeatedly_ in the past
2020-08-15T17:01:16 < karlp> it's just tedious doing it over and over again
2020-08-15T17:01:30 < Mangy_Dog> WHAT DO YOU THINK IM SETTING UP NOW?
2020-08-15T17:01:45 < Mangy_Dog> and i ghave tried to use openOCD before
2020-08-15T17:01:47 < Mangy_Dog> i couldnt get it to work
2020-08-15T17:01:59 < Mangy_Dog> I just tried the command line you posted earlier
2020-08-15T17:02:02 < Mangy_Dog> it didnt work either
2020-08-15T17:02:21 < Mangy_Dog> so now im trying the ide
2020-08-15T17:02:23 < karlp> I can help with "didn't work" if you give me a bit more specifics.
2020-08-15T17:02:28 < karlp> "didn't work" isn't very actionable
2020-08-15T17:02:31 < Mangy_Dog> its a 700 meg file takes a few minutes to download and install
2020-08-15T17:02:35 < karlp> it' slike, "here's a schematic, why does my code hang"
2020-08-15T17:02:46 < Mangy_Dog> Which is NOT what i even asked
2020-08-15T17:02:51 < [b]enis> openocd & gdb ftw
2020-08-15T17:03:03 < [b]enis> i'm the most primitive debugger there is
2020-08-15T17:03:05 < Mangy_Dog> I asked if there was any obviouse reason why the mcu would hang, from the wireup
2020-08-15T17:03:13 < [b]enis> i know like 3 gdb commands and that's literally all i use to debug
2020-08-15T17:03:18 < [b]enis> how to set breakpoints
2020-08-15T17:03:23 < [b]enis> and step through things
2020-08-15T17:05:18 < Mangy_Dog> Info : Previous state query failed, trying to reconnect
2020-08-15T17:05:18 < Mangy_Dog> Error: jtag status contains invalid mode value - communication failure
2020-08-15T17:05:18 < Mangy_Dog> Polling target stm32f1x.cpu failed, trying to reexamine
2020-08-15T17:05:18 < Mangy_Dog> Examination failed, GDB will be halted. Polling again in 6300ms   
2020-08-15T17:05:27 < Mangy_Dog> is what openocd says bte
2020-08-15T17:05:29 < Mangy_Dog> btw
2020-08-15T17:05:49 < Mangy_Dog> and as for the arm none command, that gave me a "is not recognised"
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2020-08-15T17:25:58 < Mangy_Dog> ok been setting up the project in the MX portion of the ide... its built a base set of main code
2020-08-15T17:26:06 < Mangy_Dog> and created a main.h
2020-08-15T17:26:20 < Mangy_Dog> ill be honest this isnt work im used to
2020-08-15T17:26:42 < Mangy_Dog> where do i put my code 
2020-08-15T17:28:29 < [b]enis> installing a whole fucking IDE (a terrible one to boot) just for debugging seems like a huge waste of time
2020-08-15T17:28:31 < Mangy_Dog> hmm ok found the int main
2020-08-15T17:28:44 < Mangy_Dog> well this is what karlkp told me to do
2020-08-15T17:29:04 < srk> it wurks with stlink .. :D maybe
2020-08-15T17:29:07 < [b]enis> i thought karlp said "use a debugger" not "install stm32cube IDE" :D
2020-08-15T17:30:27 < Mangy_Dog> he said it would be easier to use the ide
2020-08-15T17:30:36 < Mangy_Dog> and as i couldnt get the debugger working
2020-08-15T17:30:39 < Mangy_Dog> here i ma
2020-08-15T17:30:41 < Mangy_Dog> am
2020-08-15T17:31:08 < Mangy_Dog> out of interest what would you code in?
2020-08-15T17:32:06 < [b]enis> i code stm32 stuff with a dungeon called vim+openocd+gdb
2020-08-15T17:33:02 < Mangy_Dog> vim?
2020-08-15T17:33:12 < [b]enis> yes. the text editor
2020-08-15T17:34:15 < [b]enis> the connections go like: gdb --tcp--> openocd --usb--> st-link --wirez n shit--> stm32
2020-08-15T17:34:20 < Steffanx> All commandline stuff Mangy_Dog. im not convinced that will work for you...
2020-08-15T17:34:34 < Mangy_Dog> nor am i
2020-08-15T17:34:50 < [b]enis> i think if you just used your existing IDE that you're used to, but you opened up two command prompts: one with openocd and another with gdb
2020-08-15T17:34:52 < [b]enis> you'd be fine
2020-08-15T17:35:15 < [b]enis> gdb is not hard.
2020-08-15T17:35:25 < [b]enis> afaik all the IDEs like eclipse do is automate this
2020-08-15T17:35:32 < [b]enis> and abstract away the commands from you
2020-08-15T17:35:36 < Mangy_Dog> where can i get gdb?
2020-08-15T17:35:50 < Mangy_Dog> im assuming it wasnt in the openOCD windows binary i downloaded
2020-08-15T17:35:53 < Mangy_Dog> as i didnt work before
2020-08-15T17:36:11 < karlp> you're still using the arduino ide aren't you?
2020-08-15T17:36:17 < Mangy_Dog> no
2020-08-15T17:36:20 < Mangy_Dog> eclispe
2020-08-15T17:36:24 < Mangy_Dog> but with sloebar
2020-08-15T17:36:28 < [b]enis> if you are using the gnu arm toolchain, gdb is included
2020-08-15T17:36:32 < karlp> ok, so does your eclipse not just have a "debug" button then?
2020-08-15T17:36:33 < Mangy_Dog> so has some arduino enviroment stuff
2020-08-15T17:36:40 < karlp> put a breakpoitn on main and press the debug button?
2020-08-15T17:36:47 < [b]enis> https://developer.arm.com/tools-and-software/open-source-software/developer-tools/gnu-toolchain/gnu-rm
2020-08-15T17:36:51 < karlp> cubeide is just another packaging of eclipse
2020-08-15T17:36:59 < Mangy_Dog> i realised that
2020-08-15T17:36:59 < karlp> how are you flashing your target?
2020-08-15T17:37:06 < karlp> with a button in eclipse?
2020-08-15T17:37:10 < Mangy_Dog> stlink
2020-08-15T17:37:15 < Mangy_Dog> yeah
2020-08-15T17:37:21 < Mangy_Dog> just runs the build and uplaod part of sloebar
2020-08-15T17:37:55 < Steffanx> Its arduino.. arduino users arent used to debugging with breakpoints etc.
2020-08-15T17:38:15 < Mangy_Dog> I used to code with VB in the old days i can handle break points
2020-08-15T17:38:17 < Mangy_Dog> i get the concept
2020-08-15T17:38:24 < Mangy_Dog> i just dont think its implimented in this
2020-08-15T17:38:27 < karlp> right, so sloebar expclitlyl says no debugging
2020-08-15T17:38:32 < karlp> you need the "rest" of eclipse
2020-08-15T17:39:01 < karlp> cubeide allegedly sets that up for you
2020-08-15T17:39:01 < [b]enis> There is no debug functionality with Arduino out of the box.
2020-08-15T17:39:04 < [b]enis> The Sloeber supports debugging with:
2020-08-15T17:39:07 < [b]enis> and then it lists a bunch of BS
2020-08-15T17:39:14 < [b]enis> none of which applies here
2020-08-15T17:39:53 < Mangy_Dog> and the only reason i use a arduino based enviroment is because i use a fair number of arduino based libnraries
2020-08-15T17:39:55 < Mangy_Dog> libraries
2020-08-15T17:40:36 < karlp> eclipse C/CDT based things should have the "debug" button
2020-08-15T17:40:44 < karlp> I've no idea about it in your cut version
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2020-08-15T17:40:58 < karlp> it jsut hides running "something" in the background, and running gdb anyway
2020-08-15T17:41:52 < [b]enis> Mangy_Dog: yes i recall you saying this months ago
2020-08-15T17:42:54 < Mangy_Dog> and aat the moment for this project, specifically the gameduino library, wich is too huge to simply port over to what ever in a few days
2020-08-15T17:43:07 < Mangy_Dog> id be better off writing it from scratch and spend a year doing that
2020-08-15T17:43:16 < Mangy_Dog> before i can even start the project
2020-08-15T17:43:17 < [b]enis> stuck in arduino world
2020-08-15T17:43:27 < Mangy_Dog> which doesnt sound fun to me tbh
2020-08-15T17:43:44 < [b]enis> that's why i suggested you should try using your existing IDE that has no debug
2020-08-15T17:43:50 < [b]enis> but then running openocd and gdb on the side
2020-08-15T17:44:17 < [b]enis> that way you can at least get some primitive debugging action going on. see where things break.
2020-08-15T17:44:42 < Mangy_Dog> thats just it
2020-08-15T17:44:47 < Mangy_Dog> its NOT my code thats breaking
2020-08-15T17:45:02 < Mangy_Dog> its hanging on a practically empty program
2020-08-15T17:45:05 < Mangy_Dog> sketch
2020-08-15T17:45:15 < srk> clocks?
2020-08-15T17:45:28 < [b]enis> by empty is that a whole arduino core though?
2020-08-15T17:45:30 < srk> hanging how? :)
2020-08-15T17:45:38 < Mangy_Dog> yeah with core
2020-08-15T17:45:42 < Mangy_Dog> srk
2020-08-15T17:45:45 < Mangy_Dog> not running
2020-08-15T17:45:45 < [b]enis> ok so that's a whole program lol
2020-08-15T17:45:51 < [b]enis> that's not just an empty "sketch"
2020-08-15T17:46:13 < Mangy_Dog> i just have a serial1.println("stuff"); to test it and i get nothing
2020-08-15T17:46:20 < srk> Mangy_Dog: there's mcu initilization phase going on before it even gets to your setup() 
2020-08-15T17:46:34 < Mangy_Dog> which is why i posted the schematic to see if anyone could see anything obviousely wrong
2020-08-15T17:46:41 < Mangy_Dog> srk i realise that
2020-08-15T17:46:42 < srk> which needs to setup clocks most importantly
2020-08-15T17:47:34 < [b]enis> schematic showed boot0 is low, reset is high.
2020-08-15T17:47:38 < Mangy_Dog> 8mhz is attached and no shorts to pins
2020-08-15T17:47:52 < [b]enis> oh there you go. what's goin on with that?
2020-08-15T17:48:00 < srk> can you check it with scope?
2020-08-15T17:48:08 < srk> where does it hang?
2020-08-15T17:48:20 < Mangy_Dog> i dont know where it hangs
2020-08-15T17:48:29 < Mangy_Dog> it simply doesnt get tot he print in the setup portion of the sketch
2020-08-15T17:48:40 < [b]enis> serial1.begin() ?
2020-08-15T17:48:55 < srk> can you get a backtrace somehow?
2020-08-15T17:49:05 < karlp> srk: we've been trying to get to actually having a debugger setup
2020-08-15T17:49:30 < srk> oh it's still w/o debugger?
2020-08-15T17:49:33 < karlp> Mangy_Dog: jsut for the record, keep using the arduino libs, that's fine, just use the debugger you have to debug it
2020-08-15T17:49:40 < karlp> srk: correct :)
2020-08-15T17:49:53 < srk> arduino sadness
2020-08-15T17:50:00 < karlp> just libraries, who cares what they are,
2020-08-15T17:50:08 < karlp> only thing wrong wtih arduino is the ide
2020-08-15T17:50:08 < srk> atmega ways in 21st century
2020-08-15T17:50:14 < srk> +1
2020-08-15T17:50:15 < Mangy_Dog> [b]enis reset goes into reset when pulled to ground. the 3v holds it high... boot0 is pulled low for normal use... high for bootloader
2020-08-15T17:50:20 < srk> you can even debug atmegas with JTAG :)
2020-08-15T17:50:30 < srk> also the libraries suck
2020-08-15T17:50:32 < srk> ;)
2020-08-15T17:50:32 < [b]enis> Mangy_Dog: yes i know. that makes debugging harder :)
2020-08-15T17:50:41 < Mangy_Dog> sighs
2020-08-15T17:51:22 < [b]enis> Mangy_Dog: your schem just has reset pulled up. but you should still be able to bodge the st-link to nrst
2020-08-15T17:51:26 < srk> if you try to combine few arduino libs, try to use nonblocking libs.. most of the time it explodes :)
2020-08-15T17:51:43 < [b]enis> Mangy_Dog: that might be all you need to get openocd to cooperate too
2020-08-15T17:52:04 < karlp> [b]enis: you don't need reset to debug.
2020-08-15T17:52:05 < Mangy_Dog> like i say, the program i was testing with to drive my display... workes on the dev board i made. All i had to do was switch a few pins around for the spi chip select on this new project. and its not working, ive stripped things down to see why it wont run and thats when i discovered i cant even get it to print out on serial...
2020-08-15T17:52:47 < [b]enis> karlp: i did on my stm32g0 but only because the swd pins were being changed by my code.
2020-08-15T17:52:50 < karlp> and you've claimed that the hardware is fine, so all we've done is suggest using a debugger to work out a) is your code running at all and b) if it's running, wher eit's hanging
2020-08-15T17:52:57 < karlp> [b]enis: that's your own problem then :)
2020-08-15T17:53:01 < [b]enis> lol yeh
2020-08-15T17:53:06 < Mangy_Dog> i dont even have a led debug to test... didnt think id need it
2020-08-15T17:53:39 < karlp> you don't, you have a debugger :)
2020-08-15T17:54:11 < Mangy_Dog> no im not claiming the hardware is fine... im claiming that the hardware "should " be fine as its based on my older devkit that i have made. Be it with a few changes of pin arrangments. which is why i posted the schematic to see if i made a mistake and put something on a special pint hat could be fooking it up
2020-08-15T17:54:32 < Mangy_Dog> i cant even find a windows binary for gdb bte
2020-08-15T17:54:34 < Mangy_Dog> btw
2020-08-15T17:54:51 < [b]enis> it's part of the gnu-rm toolchain if you have that installed
2020-08-15T17:55:02 < [b]enis> they bundle it with the gcc/binutils
2020-08-15T17:55:35 < Mangy_Dog> which maybe somewhere possibly be inside the sloebar build tools...
2020-08-15T17:55:38 < Mangy_Dog> whi knows
2020-08-15T17:55:40 < Mangy_Dog> who
2020-08-15T17:56:59 < Steffanx> https://developer.arm.com/tools-and-software/open-source-software/developer-tools/gnu-toolchain/gnu-rm [b]enis already linked it ;)
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2020-08-15T17:57:59 < Mangy_Dog> thats the entire arm toolchain
2020-08-15T17:58:09 < [b]enis> yeah :)
2020-08-15T17:58:29 < [b]enis> how else will sloeber build the source?
2020-08-15T17:58:35 < Mangy_Dog> the chances are, i install this, this will break the build tools inside sloebar
2020-08-15T17:58:43 < [b]enis> doubt it
2020-08-15T17:58:47 < Mangy_Dog> i dont
2020-08-15T17:58:49 < [b]enis> if it does, just uninstall it
2020-08-15T17:58:51 < Mangy_Dog> its happened before
2020-08-15T17:59:15 < Mangy_Dog> and the only way to fix it was to uninstall and then reinstall sloebar from scratch
2020-08-15T17:59:36 < Mangy_Dog> as well as the devstyle and reintergrate all the hardware and libraries again
2020-08-15T17:59:43 < [b]enis> afaik when you use stm32cubemx you need a toolchain installed - and this is one of the supported ones.
2020-08-15T17:59:43 < Mangy_Dog> tends to take about 3 or 4 hours to set it up 
2020-08-15T18:00:07 < [b]enis> go into your software settings in windowz and see if gnu rm toolchain already installed
2020-08-15T18:00:31 < [b]enis> heh my vbox is busted
2020-08-15T18:01:15 < Mangy_Dog> turns out it was already installed
2020-08-15T18:01:17 < Steffanx> ok, good luck then Mangy_Dog
2020-08-15T18:01:18 < [b]enis> :P
2020-08-15T18:01:26 < [b]enis> probably was needed for sloeber
2020-08-15T18:01:36 < [b]enis> that means gdb must be around there somewhere.
2020-08-15T18:01:39 < Mangy_Dog> maybe but ive had conflicts before with this kind of thing
2020-08-15T18:02:09 < Mangy_Dog> so once i get installed and running stablly id ont like touching it AT ALL
2020-08-15T18:16:23 < [b]enis> you installed the full sloeber product?
2020-08-15T18:16:42 < [b]enis> windows 4.3.3 64-bits stable
2020-08-15T18:17:25 < Mangy_Dog> 4.3.3.20200504...
2020-08-15T18:19:01 < [b]enis> i just d/l and i'm extracting to C:\Sloeber
2020-08-15T18:19:13 < [b]enis> the docs said put it as close to the root as possible
2020-08-15T18:19:18 < [b]enis> and no spaces
2020-08-15T18:36:51 < Cracki> my god
2020-08-15T18:37:37 < Cracki> (1) serial.println is a COMPLEX operation on stm32. it does usb properly instead of shouting on a uart pin
2020-08-15T18:37:58 < Cracki> (2) if you have no LEDs on the board, STILL wiggle a pin and see if you can pick that up with a multimeter or something
2020-08-15T18:40:24 < Cracki> (3) I think the "STM32cubeprogrammer" thingy gives you a basic view of registers (program counter) so you could check if it's "doing anything" or just not executing at all. the older "st-link utility" at least does it. both are GUIs.
2020-08-15T18:40:49 < Cracki> they're trying to get you to run openocd for the same reason, check basic lifesigns
2020-08-15T18:47:32 < PaulFertser> With openocd it's really easy though. You see what's happening right away. And you need it for easy debug later.
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2020-08-15T18:51:24 < Cracki> only trouble is it's not as "explorable" as a GUI, and you (used to?) need to know some arguments like the correct cfg file
2020-08-15T18:51:42 < Cracki> it also helps to post the error message when it "doesn't work"
2020-08-15T18:54:17 < Cracki> try googling openocd stm32. I find a bunch of recipes like >>$ openocd -f "board/st_nucleo_f4.cfg"<< but they don't bother even hinting at where to look for these files to pick the right one for your own board
2020-08-15T18:54:28 < Cracki> guessing file names may work, or not
2020-08-15T18:54:46 < Cracki> RTFM is fine advice because it's always right
2020-08-15T18:55:34 < Cracki> and basically says "your time is worth nothing, deal with the learning curve, let's not make this a more pleasant experience than it needs to be"
2020-08-15T18:57:01 < Cracki> "You should find the following directories under $(INSTALLDIR)/scripts"
2020-08-15T18:57:17 < Cracki> ok then, `which openocd` and digging for it
2020-08-15T18:58:33 < PaulFertser> Cracki: well, isn't user manual section "Running" explaining that with enough details?
2020-08-15T18:59:35 < Cracki> things like $pkgdatadir are technically correct but does it say how to resolve that variable?
2020-08-15T19:00:27 < Cracki> it's no bother looking through some downloaded zip file (in the windows case) but I can't begin to speculate where that shit ends up on various linux distributions
2020-08-15T19:01:21 < Cracki> for msys2 it ends up being msys64\mingw64\share\openocd\scripts\board
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2020-08-15T19:02:23 < PaulFertser> Cracki: hm, checking, I'd expect $pkgdatadir to be properly expanded during build time.
2020-08-15T19:02:50 < Cracki> well obviously not in this form of the docs: http://openocd.org/doc/html/Running.html#Running
2020-08-15T19:02:58 < Cracki> (because who reads local docs)
2020-08-15T19:03:52 < Cracki> and I'm not familiar enough with manpages to know which "number" to ask for, other than "man openocd"
2020-08-15T19:04:37 < PaulFertser> OpenOCD documentation is in info, so you're supposed to run "info openocd" (or use other info browser to read it).
2020-08-15T19:05:08 < Cracki> and that scripts directory contains boards, chips, cpus, interfaces, ... I guess all of that must be explained somewhere
2020-08-15T19:05:57 < Cracki> my info openocd -> running maintains the $pkgdatadir unexpanded
2020-08-15T19:07:54 < Cracki> so I guess googling for the specific case of "openocd stm32f1" and using someone's travel report is the way to go? http://www.rudi-horn.de/Home/7-debugging-the-stmf-with-an-st-linkv-and-openocd
2020-08-15T19:08:38 < Cracki> I'm sure all of what he wrote is very very wrong because it always is, but it worked for him and he went to the effort of writing it down for others
2020-08-15T19:09:20 < Cracki> (I don't know the guy; that assertion tends to be made of anything anyone writes that wasn't handed down by god himself)
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2020-08-15T19:29:36 < karlp> Cracki: that rudi-horn page is fine, it shows you how to do debugging manually via openocd, it's probably normalllly more useful to use gdb instead
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2020-08-15T19:37:47 < Mangy_Dog> sorry been doing a few things afk and about to eat... but just tested blink on the led pin
2020-08-15T19:37:48 < Mangy_Dog> thats running
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2020-08-15T19:41:01 < Cracki> so... wiggling the pin works, but usb serial doesn't?
2020-08-15T19:43:30 < Mangy_Dog> not using usb pins
2020-08-15T19:43:34 < Mangy_Dog> well not for that anyway
2020-08-15T19:43:36 < Mangy_Dog> just io
2020-08-15T19:43:45 < Mangy_Dog> using hardware serial pins
2020-08-15T19:43:47 < Cracki> ah
2020-08-15T19:44:01 < Mangy_Dog> but ive set up a scetch to run hardware 1 2 3
2020-08-15T19:44:05 < Mangy_Dog> no pints for any
2020-08-15T19:44:07 < Mangy_Dog> prints
2020-08-15T19:44:22 < Cracki> how do you determine that
2020-08-15T19:44:35 < Mangy_Dog> no print outs in the serial window
2020-08-15T19:44:38 < Cracki> do you not receive anything, or do the uart pins not move at all
2020-08-15T19:44:40 < Cracki> ic
2020-08-15T19:44:45 < Mangy_Dog> i have a serial hardware wired to the pins
2020-08-15T19:44:51 < PaulFertser> Cracki: well, I'd say one is supposed to read README anyway, so he/she knows that there's a file named stm32f1x.cfg. Then depending on distro one does something equivalent to "dpkg -L openocd | grep stm32f1x.cfg" and the scripts directory is shown.
2020-08-15T19:44:54 < Cracki> I'd put a logic analyzer or scope on those pins now
2020-08-15T19:45:05 < Mangy_Dog> only have a ociliscope
2020-08-15T19:45:07 < Mangy_Dog> not logig
2020-08-15T19:45:09 < Mangy_Dog> logic
2020-08-15T19:45:57 < Cracki> I'm betting baud rates don't match because it runs at an unexpected frequency
2020-08-15T19:46:11 < Mangy_Dog> both set to 9600
2020-08-15T19:46:12 < Cracki> (no money)
2020-08-15T19:46:36 < Cracki> obviously baud rates "match" but what if it runs at an unexpected frequency
2020-08-15T19:46:44 < Cracki> anyway, do the uart pins move
2020-08-15T19:47:00 < Mangy_Dog> the crystel is 8mhz
2020-08-15T19:47:15 < Mangy_Dog> crystal 
2020-08-15T19:48:26 < Cracki> does the "led" pin "blink" at the expected rate, and so on
2020-08-15T19:50:57 < Mangy_Dog> running blink on the serial pins work
2020-08-15T19:51:03 < Mangy_Dog> they go up and down
2020-08-15T19:51:17 < Cracki> great
2020-08-15T19:51:35 < Mangy_Dog> so not a core crash at least... or appears to be
2020-08-15T19:52:03 < qyx> scope the tx
2020-08-15T19:52:09 < qyx> as Cracki says
2020-08-15T19:52:39 < Cracki> just send hello world in a sleepless loop
2020-08-15T19:53:16 < Cracki> hm, maybe print, free pin high, print, free pin low, see if it even runs, or if the print blocks for some reason
2020-08-15T19:53:42 < Cracki> that would distinguish the peripheral runnning but not moving the pins, vs peripheral not running
2020-08-15T19:56:25 < Mangy_Dog> oh you got to be fucking kidding m3e
2020-08-15T19:56:33 < Mangy_Dog> building and uploading from arduino ide is working
2020-08-15T19:56:40 < Mangy_Dog> from sloeber not working
2020-08-15T19:56:48 < Mangy_Dog> will look into this more after food
2020-08-15T20:02:57 < Cracki> lol
2020-08-15T20:09:03 -!- Miyu is now known as hackkitten
2020-08-15T20:09:22 < [b]enis> installed sloeber in my win10 VM
2020-08-15T20:09:25 < [b]enis> this shit is aids
2020-08-15T20:09:49 < Mangy_Dog> better than arduino ide
2020-08-15T20:09:57 < Mangy_Dog> and i have code complettion and branching
2020-08-15T20:21:32 < Steffanx> Isnt this new tarduino ide supposed to be amazing?
2020-08-15T20:24:06 < Cracki> platformio might be a more sensible choice than sloeber
2020-08-15T20:24:36 < Cracki> new official arduino ide "The application frontend is based on the Eclipse Theia Open Source IDE"
2020-08-15T20:25:08 < Mangy_Dog> oh its another eclipse spin
2020-08-15T20:25:14 < [b]enis> that's what sloeber is yeh
2020-08-15T20:25:25 < Mangy_Dog> yeah sloeber is that
2020-08-15T20:25:28 < Cracki> looks like an entry into the vscode-tier editors
2020-08-15T20:25:36 < [b]enis> but the new arduino ide is going to be an eclipse thing? that's.... really bad.
2020-08-15T20:25:55 < [b]enis> vscode is donkey aids too
2020-08-15T20:26:03 < Cracki> I think sloeber != new arduino ide
2020-08-15T20:26:15 < Cracki> different beasts
2020-08-15T20:26:24 < [b]enis> "just turn off the telemetry" <-- says every NPC that uses vsSpywareCode
2020-08-15T20:26:41 < Cracki> sloeber is actual eclipse. "new arduino" looks like old arduino with more features
2020-08-15T20:26:41 < [b]enis> "just deselect all the privacy invasive options when you install"
2020-08-15T20:26:57 < [b]enis> "just edit the following registry keys, wait until the next update and figure out what the new registry keys are."
2020-08-15T20:27:16 < Cracki> just use systemd
2020-08-15T20:27:29 < Cracki> which used to have hardcoded google dns
2020-08-15T20:27:34 < [b]enis> it still does
2020-08-15T20:27:43 < Cracki> (I hope they fixed... guess not
2020-08-15T20:27:44 < [b]enis> people complained so they made it default to cloudflare, then google.
2020-08-15T20:27:47 < Cracki> lol
2020-08-15T20:27:54 < Cracki> cloudfare, like that's much better
2020-08-15T20:28:05 < [b]enis> for now it is
2020-08-15T20:28:06 < Cracki> how about asking the fucking network what dns servers to use
2020-08-15T20:28:15 < [b]enis> cloudflare is somewhere between "don't be evil" and "we're just like google now."
2020-08-15T20:28:32 < [b]enis> about 1-2 years and cloudflare will be full authoritarian censorship regime
2020-08-15T20:28:37 < Cracki> I dare anyone to call this a "bug" or "issue". it's a big fucking red flag.
2020-08-15T20:28:54 < [b]enis> it is
2020-08-15T20:29:02 < Cracki> it's a feature, to them.
2020-08-15T20:29:24 < [b]enis> the whole reason they're pushing cloudflare & google DNS and DNS-over-HTTPS is because of competition with the carriers and ISPs
2020-08-15T20:29:32 < [b]enis> they want the metadata
2020-08-15T20:30:55 < [b]enis> eventually the whole interwebs will congeal into 3 walled gardens consisting of microsoft, amazon, google.
2020-08-15T20:31:11 < Cracki> we've always been at war with {microsoft,amazon,google}
2020-08-15T20:31:26 < [b]enis> for the NPC, it's already so
2020-08-15T20:33:58 < srk> Cracki: it's actually a fallback when no dns servers are provided by the network
2020-08-15T20:34:09 < Cracki> fair enough
2020-08-15T20:34:32 < Cracki> was it hardcoded in the source or was it just a default in some config file... I think it was the former
2020-08-15T20:35:02 < srk> default, it's up to downstream (distro) to change that
2020-08-15T20:35:23 < Cracki> so it _is_ set at compile time, i.e. in source https://github.com/systemd/systemd/issues/494
2020-08-15T20:35:33 < srk> 'There's a build time option to change these defaults and we invite downstreams to make use of that to adjust these servers to what's most suitable to their userbase. Moreover, users can depart from that too.'
2020-08-15T20:35:58 < Cracki> how can users depart from that, apart from rebuilding?
2020-08-15T20:36:06 < srk> so much fuzz about fallback that's almost never used in practice since most networks provide DNSes
2020-08-15T20:36:13 < Cracki> ok ok I'll stop
2020-08-15T20:36:15 < srk> .. rebuild :)
2020-08-15T20:36:31 < Cracki> so basically it's like "a law that's never used so don't worry"
2020-08-15T20:36:43 < srk> what's the problem with rebuilding if you don't like how the build is done
2020-08-15T20:36:55 < Cracki> it's more work than editing a config file
2020-08-15T20:37:36 < Cracki> also makes you hop off official distribution packages
2020-08-15T20:37:44 < Mangy_Dog> well joy 
2020-08-15T20:37:55 < Mangy_Dog> sloebar is no longer making working builds for stm32
2020-08-15T20:37:56 < Mangy_Dog> :/
2020-08-15T20:37:58 < Cracki> there are lots of ways to defend it but there are no good reasons for keeping it
2020-08-15T20:38:01 < Cracki> lol
2020-08-15T20:38:06 < Cracki> ok then, in the bin it goes?
2020-08-15T20:38:17 < Mangy_Dog> well it was working before today
2020-08-15T20:38:22 < Mangy_Dog> like i say
2020-08-15T20:38:28 < Mangy_Dog> eclipse based stuff is painfully fragile
2020-08-15T20:38:29 < Cracki> what changed, other than the date on the calendar
2020-08-15T20:38:43 < Mangy_Dog> well installing the gcc earlier
2020-08-15T20:38:44 < srk> like, what you expect when you combine eclipse and arduino :D
2020-08-15T20:38:46 < Cracki> the sloeber site rubs me the wrong way with its broken english
2020-08-15T20:41:16 < srk> my build of nodemcu stars rebooting after first restart after I write some .lua files to flash lol
2020-08-15T20:41:32 < srk> official older built by cloud works xD
2020-08-15T20:43:16 < Cracki> I think they have no feature or dev branch, everything happens in master, and you're always running a "nightly"
2020-08-15T20:43:36 < srk> no, they have release but I'm always running dev
2020-08-15T20:44:05 < Cracki> when I still dicked around with nodemcu lua, the stability was hit and miss
2020-08-15T20:44:23 < srk> this
2020-08-15T20:44:57 < srk> for years, had an older build that worked for me (all that I needed worked..), recently I've tried building it with new SDK and esp-open-rtos like toolchain on NixOS and it seems to work but..
2020-08-15T20:45:11 < srk> until first reboot :D
2020-08-15T20:45:20 < Cracki> maybe they don't have enough/any people who have fun running CI and testing 
2020-08-15T20:45:27 < srk> that fw is total mess
2020-08-15T20:45:53 < srk> they could migrate to esp-open-rtos completely which would make it better I guess
2020-08-15T20:46:24 < Cracki> I'm not much of a CI/testing guy but I'd welcome someone who takes care of that and is respectful and friendly enough to not assrape me with that shit
2020-08-15T20:46:43 < srk> I could CI that easily if I manage to find a working build using this toolchain
2020-08-15T20:47:29 < Cracki> every single issue they fix should get regression tests written for it
2020-08-15T20:47:50 < Cracki> not sure what that's called. I call it CI because idgaf
2020-08-15T20:48:04 < Cracki> (the regular running of regression tests and evaluation of results)
2020-08-15T20:48:04 < srk> I'm doing lots of that recently. aiming to auto test few different ST boards after commits land to repo
2020-08-15T20:48:40 < srk> like CI should update the deps as well ideally so you know instantly when stuff breaks
2020-08-15T20:48:57 < srk> so you can bisec (even the deps)
2020-08-15T20:49:00 < srk> *bisect
2020-08-15T20:49:33 < srk> you don't even need to write unit tests or regression tests for these things for starters
2020-08-15T20:49:37 < Cracki> ye
2020-08-15T20:49:43 < Cracki> you don't?
2020-08-15T20:49:55 < srk> just end-to-end test, does loading lua works? does it work after reboot?
2020-08-15T20:50:04 < Cracki> ah, basic functionality
2020-08-15T20:50:07 < srk> no, I have type system and recently loopback tests
2020-08-15T20:50:19 < srk> like loop SPI physically and try comms
2020-08-15T20:51:02 < srk> enough to test the periph driver
2020-08-15T20:51:14 < srk> with CAN you can flip a bit in register to have it loopback internally
2020-08-15T20:52:06 < Cracki> lol https://github.com/systemd/systemd/issues/4175#issuecomment-252571482
2020-08-15T20:52:46 < srk> 'well, there's a race' more lol :)
2020-08-15T20:53:27 < Cracki> there's obviously a race but does this mean there's no way to actively configure it to never ever use the "worst case fallback" google DNS
2020-08-15T20:53:39 < Cracki> eh fuck it
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2020-08-15T20:55:09 < srk> what are you running? devuan?
2020-08-15T20:55:27 < Cracki> I plead the fifth
2020-08-15T20:55:29 < srk> just ban google ips on the router :D
2020-08-15T20:55:34 < Cracki> yeah
2020-08-15T20:55:44 < Cracki> wait, watif router is systemd
2020-08-15T20:55:52 < Cracki> systemd-everythingd
2020-08-15T20:55:52 < srk> neat
2020-08-15T20:56:20 < srk> there's still iptables which is not userspace so :)
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2020-08-15T20:58:51 < srk> .. wasted few hours to get this TCP->UART esp8266 bridge running so I don't have to fiddle with notebooks
2020-08-15T20:59:15 < srk> btw I have blackmagic running on one as well, pretty cool
2020-08-15T20:59:35 < srk> tar ext 8.8.8.8:8888
2020-08-15T20:59:36 < srk> profit
2020-08-15T21:00:18 < Cracki> uh how is that to be understood? tar understands ip:port notation?
2020-08-15T21:00:31 < Cracki> nvm, that's a command to bmp
2020-08-15T21:00:39 < srk> gdb 
2020-08-15T21:00:46 < Cracki> hmhm
2020-08-15T21:00:47 < srk> short target extended-remote
2020-08-15T21:01:22 < srk> just need to add UART passthru for completeness
2020-08-15T21:01:48 < srk> cheapo wireless debugging 
2020-08-15T21:02:02 < Cracki> verily
2020-08-15T21:02:06 < srk> ffs, that's so awesome
2020-08-15T21:02:13 < srk> I don't need to fuck with USB isolators anymore
2020-08-15T21:02:29 < Cracki> very smart
2020-08-15T21:19:04 < zyp> neat
2020-08-15T21:21:36 < Cracki> so... you speak serial to the BMP (from the esp doing the tcp/uart bridging), not usb? or is that "blackmagic" as firmware on an esp?
2020-08-15T21:22:09 < zyp> standard blackmagic talks gdb remote protocol over usb-serial
2020-08-15T21:22:26 < zyp> and it'd work equally well over tcp over wifi
2020-08-15T21:22:51 < Cracki> sure but does the bmp dongle have host-facing uart pins, or just usb?
2020-08-15T21:23:05 < Cracki> I see there are projects that run the blackmagic firmware on esp8266/32
2020-08-15T21:23:13 < zyp> the firmware is open, so I guess it can run directly on the esp
2020-08-15T21:23:17 < srk> blackmagic on esp
2020-08-15T21:23:23 < Cracki> fancy
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2020-08-15T21:23:25 < srk> lemme find the link
2020-08-15T21:23:44 < emeb> nice
2020-08-15T21:23:46 < Cracki> for a "microcontroller" that has no peripherals, it's surprisingly capable
2020-08-15T21:23:59 < Cracki> (well, "no" peripherals compared to what we're used to)
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2020-08-15T21:24:24 < Cracki> cba to remember what it actually has. I only remember it's shit
2020-08-15T21:24:28 < srk> https://github.com/markrages/blackmagic/tree/esp8266
2020-08-15T21:25:38 < Cracki> also found https://github.com/walmis/blackmagic-espidf
2020-08-15T21:25:43 < srk> that's shite
2020-08-15T21:25:44 < emeb> zyp: I was playing around w/ JTAG on orangecrab ecp5 - needed to make an adapter from JLink to mini-10pin. Got out one of my old BMP2 boards and populated just the connectors. Plugs right into the JLink and converts to the mini-10. 
2020-08-15T21:25:44 < [b]enis> Mangy_Dog: vscode + platformio ftw
2020-08-15T21:25:53 < emeb> saving old PCBs FTW
2020-08-15T21:25:53 < srk> using orig espressif sdk
2020-08-15T21:26:06 < Mangy_Dog> vscode AND platform io? :o
2020-08-15T21:26:08 < srk> and borken :) it's surprisingly easy using lwip https://github.com/blacksphere/blackmagic/commit/8bab292089725c3af2bf9fbb748dac4a1a75488e ..
2020-08-15T21:26:15 < [b]enis> https://platformio.org/platformio-ide
2020-08-15T21:26:20 < srk> eww
2020-08-15T21:26:21 < zyp> emeb, haha, nice
2020-08-15T21:59:08 < Mangy_Dog> ok platform io might look pretty but im struggling wtih ti
2020-08-15T21:59:25 < Mangy_Dog> i cant seem to diffirentiate between locally installed hardware and libraries or ones in the cloud
2020-08-15T21:59:32 < Mangy_Dog> theres no optiosn
2020-08-15T21:59:34 < Mangy_Dog> options
2020-08-15T22:00:00 < Mangy_Dog> nor can i configure the paths to those libraries
2020-08-15T22:00:02 < Mangy_Dog> and hardare
2020-08-15T22:00:10 < Mangy_Dog> hardware
2020-08-15T22:04:10 < Mangy_Dog> like right now trying to start a project
2020-08-15T22:04:22 < Cracki> >Please open PlatformIO IDE > PIO Home > Libraries > Install (Advanced library installation) and paste full path to a custom library and press “Install”.
2020-08-15T22:04:25 < Mangy_Dog> theres no way to tell if im selecting a cloud source or local stuff and its taking ages to start
2020-08-15T22:05:17 < Cracki> https://community.platformio.org/t/how-do-i-add-libraries-after-importing-an-arduino-sketch/10274/2
2020-08-15T22:08:10 < [b]enis> just be one with the platformio
2020-08-15T22:08:19 < [b]enis> accept it for what it is. go with the flow.
2020-08-15T22:08:27 < Mangy_Dog> im not liking it so far tbh
2020-08-15T22:08:30 < [b]enis> things really are as simple as they first appear
2020-08-15T22:08:42 < Mangy_Dog> yeah but too simple and you cant fix problems 
2020-08-15T22:08:49 < [b]enis> ignore that
2020-08-15T22:08:55 < Mangy_Dog> i cant
2020-08-15T22:08:59 < [b]enis> do not let your preconceptions cause you to develop opinions
2020-08-15T22:09:04 < [b]enis> accept platformio's opinions
2020-08-15T22:09:05 < Mangy_Dog> as i need to use rogerclarks stm32 core
2020-08-15T22:09:12 < Mangy_Dog> and not what ever core platformio is randomly picking for me
2020-08-15T22:11:24 < Mangy_Dog> i cant even link libraries from an improted project
2020-08-15T22:11:28 < Mangy_Dog> its not seeing my libraries
2020-08-15T22:13:05 < Mangy_Dog> https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/695271473308237985/744272448199065630/unknown.png
2020-08-15T22:16:03 < qyx> platformio again?
2020-08-15T22:16:12 < qyx> do you know Jen?
2020-08-15T22:16:17 < Mangy_Dog> only trying it out
2020-08-15T22:16:25 < qyx> Jan- I mean
2020-08-15T22:16:26 < Mangy_Dog> because people are telling me to
2020-08-15T22:16:30 < Mangy_Dog> yeah i know jan
2020-08-15T22:16:57 < qyx> she was into platformio much
2020-08-15T22:17:06 < qyx> then she left
2020-08-15T22:17:10 < Mangy_Dog> i never liked iot
2020-08-15T22:17:26 < Mangy_Dog> even before it moved to vscode i didnt like it
2020-08-15T22:17:48 < zyp> what do you like?
2020-08-15T22:17:48 < Mangy_Dog> at least in its (sublime?) days it was configurable
2020-08-15T22:19:57 < Mangy_Dog> well it seems randomly i got uploads working again from sloebar
2020-08-15T22:20:07 < Mangy_Dog> sloeber
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2020-08-15T22:24:43 < Cracki> slobber
2020-08-15T22:25:42 < Mangy_Dog> pretty much
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2020-08-15T23:17:42 < Mangy_Dog> hmmmmmmm
2020-08-15T23:19:55 < Mangy_Dog> just probed my crystal
2020-08-15T23:19:57 < Mangy_Dog> Nothing
2020-08-15T23:20:01 < Mangy_Dog> not getting anything
2020-08-15T23:22:38 < Mangy_Dog> -that makes no sense
2020-08-15T23:22:53 < Mangy_Dog> if the crystal was dead i wouldbnt be getting the serial out or the led pin blinking
2020-08-15T23:23:02 < Mangy_Dog> or would the chip revert to internal?
2020-08-15T23:23:17 < Mangy_Dog> and things like SPI just dont run without a crystal?
2020-08-15T23:27:08 < zyp> stm32 can be configured to revert to internal oscillator, yes
2020-08-15T23:27:24 < zyp> spi should work just fine with it
2020-08-15T23:29:15 < Mangy_Dog> just seem to be having trouble getting the ft810 to talk to the stm... Uses spi. But probing the pins nothing is happening.
2020-08-15T23:30:48 < Mangy_Dog> swapped crystal new one isnt doing anything either
2020-08-15T23:31:07 < Mangy_Dog> while the devboard one is giving me a signal as it is on my other board i put together for this
2020-08-15T23:34:04 < zyp>  are you sure you're even trying to use the crystal though? :)
2020-08-15T23:34:19 < zyp> stm32 always boots on internal
2020-08-15T23:34:32 < Mangy_Dog> i honestly dont know any more tbh
2020-08-15T23:34:42 < Mangy_Dog> nothing about today makes sense
2020-08-15T23:34:58 < PaulFertser> With a debugger you can just stop execution and check the OSC control register contents.
2020-08-15T23:35:26 < PaulFertser> That's the most sure way to see what's actually going on.
2020-08-15T23:36:11 < Mangy_Dog> im now back to WTF land
2020-08-15T23:36:21 < Mangy_Dog> upload via stlink from arduino ide
2020-08-15T23:36:33 < Mangy_Dog> osc runs and i get serial out
2020-08-15T23:36:44 < Mangy_Dog> upload via stlink from sloeber
2020-08-15T23:36:49 < Mangy_Dog> no osc and no output
2020-08-15T23:37:01 < Mangy_Dog> both use the same dfuman tool
2020-08-15T23:37:05 < Mangy_Dog> both running off same core
2020-08-15T23:38:20 < PaulFertser> Why do you not want to use step-by-step debugging etc Mangy_Dog ?
2020-08-15T23:38:32 < Mangy_Dog> oh no , i do
2020-08-15T23:38:36 < Mangy_Dog> i really would love to
2020-08-15T23:38:38 < zyp> PaulFertser, no fun doing it the easy way
2020-08-15T23:38:44 < Mangy_Dog> no seriously
2020-08-15T23:38:46 < Mangy_Dog> I want that
2020-08-15T23:39:01 < Mangy_Dog> but doesnt appear like theres anyway of getting it to work with the arduino based cores
2020-08-15T23:39:10 < Mangy_Dog> certainly not in sloeber and platformIO is a bust
2020-08-15T23:39:59 < PaulFertser> What's "core" in this context?
2020-08-15T23:40:33 < zyp> «pile of shit», perhaps?
2020-08-15T23:40:57 < PaulFertser> You're still using a regular compiler and linker, right? Doesn't matter what library is used, you can always enable generating debugging symbols and load the resulting ELF in GDB...
2020-08-15T23:41:44 < Mangy_Dog> I dont know what compiler is being used tobh
2020-08-15T23:41:49 < Mangy_Dog> im not making a build file
2020-08-15T23:41:57 < Mangy_Dog> As farnkly i have no idea how to do that
2020-08-15T23:42:08 < Mangy_Dog> This is where arduino has been bad for me
2020-08-15T23:42:09 < PaulFertser> From what I know about arduino it's nothing special.
2020-08-15T23:42:19 < Mangy_Dog> theres a level of... Done for you... That ive missed out on learning
2020-08-15T23:43:07 < Mangy_Dog> and core is, the entire work enviroment... So in this case its arduino like... and the libraries i use, specifically for this project gameduino. uses specific reference calls that arduino uses like spi.write
2020-08-15T23:43:19 < Mangy_Dog> thats not in other "cores"
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2020-08-15T23:45:53 < Mangy_Dog> ok spi signals making it to the target chip without any obviouse noise or issues
2020-08-15T23:45:54 < PaulFertser> I know arduino for AVR is just a set of C and C++ libraries. The only odd thing about some projects based on it is some buggy weird preprocessing that's performed on .ino files (there's none in basic arduino set) for automatic header generation.
2020-08-15T23:47:29 < PaulFertser> So I can't see what might be preventing one from using debugging.
2020-08-15T23:47:52 < Mangy_Dog> WTF!
2020-08-15T23:47:54 < Mangy_Dog> ok
2020-08-15T23:47:58 < Mangy_Dog> display chip is running
2020-08-15T23:48:24 < Mangy_Dog> something is wrong with the lcd it seems
2020-08-15T23:48:38 < Mangy_Dog> i mean hardware wise
2020-08-15T23:48:49 < Mangy_Dog> fuck knows whats going wrong with sloeber
2020-08-15T23:49:01 < Mangy_Dog> but the build is working right (ish) in arduino ide at least
2020-08-15T23:49:09 < Mangy_Dog> so im not totally screwed right now
2020-08-15T23:51:01 < Mangy_Dog> looks like ribbon isnt perfectly soldered
2020-08-15T23:51:16 < Mangy_Dog> right ill fix that tomorrow
2020-08-15T23:51:24 < Mangy_Dog> its late im gonna relax now
--- Day changed Sun Aug 16 2020
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2020-08-16T00:18:07 < t4nk_freenode> it's 10.15pm for you! I INSIST YOU GET BACK TO WORK FOR AT LEAST ANOTHER 4 hours!
2020-08-16T00:37:02 < Mangy_Dog> So like a lot of people i grabbed troy total war for free on epic store while it was on offer. And you know what really gets me. What an utterly pointless war, So one mans wife left him for anothe rman. Sad as that might be but damn, so many people died over one mans ego
2020-08-16T00:40:32 < Mangy_Dog> well im playing the game but the troy trojen war....
2020-08-16T00:41:59 < Steffanx> So that game was free first and is $50 now? No thank you
2020-08-16T00:42:13 < Cracki> the reason we're where we are as a species in 2020 is because we stopped waging wars over women
2020-08-16T00:42:21 < Mangy_Dog> it was a big deal from epic free for one day
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2020-08-16T02:46:42 < karlp> am I right in reading the backlog,that mangy still doesn'thave debugging?
2020-08-16T02:51:38 < Steffanx> Idk
2020-08-16T02:53:39 < Steffanx> I guess so
2020-08-16T03:21:07 < Ultrasauce> real pros use printf
2020-08-16T03:27:03 < Steffanx> I just guess till it does more what I had i mind..
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2020-08-16T05:04:03 < Cracki> musics https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KVvhIRFV7PQ
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2020-08-16T15:54:48 < PaulFertser> Steffanx: 129x76x25 mm size of my ghetto DMM, so not exactly small, yes.
2020-08-16T15:59:10 < Steffanx> Yeah, i still want some real "pocket" one
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2020-08-16T16:09:00 < PaulFertser> Steffanx: your pockets are fake, take a look at the real ones https://www.pokupkalux.ru/upload/Image4text/interesno/13/13_01.jpg
2020-08-16T16:09:23 < Steffanx> ;)
2020-08-16T16:24:31 < PaulFertser> Steffanx: https://www.aliexpress.com/item/4000628358235.html I had something like that. The only problem was connection between the probes and the device, but I'm sure it's easy to fix for you.
2020-08-16T16:26:00 < PaulFertser> Dirt cheap with free shipping https://www.aliexpress.com/item/32850837437.html
2020-08-16T16:28:16 < PaulFertser> Bonus: measuring voltages without battery
2020-08-16T16:29:59 < Cracki> >includes complimentary tongue
2020-08-16T16:30:28 < Cracki> love those things
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2020-08-16T16:31:32 < PaulFertser> "used in ... miners"
2020-08-16T16:31:46 < Cracki> 1000 volt range. might be fun testing that
2020-08-16T16:32:17 < PaulFertser> Who'd dare getting close to 1000 V with that?
2020-08-16T16:32:29 < PaulFertser> (I was about to ask even before seeing your message)
2020-08-16T16:32:44 < Cracki> I'd bring it to the old physics teacher for a class demo
2020-08-16T16:39:09 < PaulFertser> Fits your pocket Steffanx ?
2020-08-16T16:39:48 < PaulFertser> Or are your jeggings not stretchy enough? ;)
2020-08-16T16:44:50 < Steffanx> Lol. I think so, but... i forgot to state my other requirements 
2020-08-16T16:47:50 < PaulFertser> I wonder what's your usecase really
2020-08-16T17:02:55 < aandrew> PaulFertser: that meter looks exactly like one of the old Radio Shack ones I had as a kid
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2020-08-16T17:26:54 < Cracki> with the mirror track so you can see if you're looking at the needle straight
2020-08-16T17:27:11 < Cracki> the chinese haven't figured that out yet
2020-08-16T17:34:50 < bitmask> I wanna replace my 2TB drive with a 10TB, whats the best program to copy the 2 to the 10 (windows machine)
2020-08-16T17:36:19 < Cracki> linux boot cd :>
2020-08-16T17:36:41 < bitmask> what would you use in linux, dd?
2020-08-16T17:36:44 < bitmask> or an app
2020-08-16T17:37:09 < Cracki> I used to recommend acronis or "O&O" but people seem to have lost interest in that level of control
2020-08-16T17:37:19 < Cracki> uh, maybe parted/gparted can do it
2020-08-16T17:37:28 < bitmask> ahh
2020-08-16T17:37:31 < Cracki> I'd expect it to be able to copy/move partitions or whole disks
2020-08-16T17:37:41 < Cracki> either fs-aware or blockwise
2020-08-16T17:37:56 < bitmask> i should check whats on the drive, I think I installed some games to it but other than that its just storage
2020-08-16T17:38:08 < bitmask> I might just copy it over
2020-08-16T17:38:27 < Cracki> boot it from disc or thumb drive, do your business, and then I think you have to bash the uefi into submission
2020-08-16T17:39:23 < Cracki> windows may or may not be huffy about sitting on a different hdd even though there's no reason for it
2020-08-16T17:39:38 < bitmask> windows isnt on it
2020-08-16T17:39:51 < bitmask> its a secondary drive
2020-08-16T17:40:20 < Cracki> also afaics windows has no tools to let you poke in the uefi's nvram boot table, and it does its own fuckery with a kind of registry in the uefi partition of the disk
2020-08-16T17:40:28 < Cracki> ah good
2020-08-16T17:40:48 < bitmask> im just gonna copy it folder by folder in windows itself, I'm in no rush
2020-08-16T17:42:53 < bitmask> I wish I had a slot for another hdd though, I gotta take the 2 out of the pc, and put it in my external enclosure currently occupied by my 6tb, transfer it over and then swap em back
2020-08-16T17:43:40 < Cracki> usb to sata dongle plus supply (without enclosure) is kinda handy
2020-08-16T17:44:44 < bitmask> yea I guess but I already have the enclosure, no point in waiting
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2020-08-16T18:29:00 < con3> hmm.. anyone got some recommended resources for USB? 
2020-08-16T18:33:01 < qyx> esata + external supply \o/
2020-08-16T18:34:05  * con3 takes notes
2020-08-16T18:34:50 < bitmask> not sure how to partition this drive, 3.3TB and 6TB
2020-08-16T18:35:04 < bitmask> maybe 5TB and 4.3
2020-08-16T18:35:35 < bitmask> hmm 3.3 and 6 or 3.8 and 5.5
2020-08-16T18:35:51 < bitmask> first, its settled
2020-08-16T18:36:24 < Cracki> I'd use metric prefixes. gives round numbers.
2020-08-16T18:37:27 < Cracki> 4768371 MiB is ~ 5 TB
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2020-08-16T19:08:15 < Steffanx> Just 1. bitmask 
2020-08-16T19:08:21 < Steffanx> Entire disk size 
2020-08-16T19:08:49 < bitmask> hmmm
2020-08-16T19:09:15 < bitmask> maybe you're right
2020-08-16T19:14:05 < R2COM> zyp it seems to be good idea to stop using typedef in c++, since "using" is same thing, but also can be used with templates
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2020-08-16T19:40:36 < zyp> R2COM, that's a fairly new feature, so I haven't used it yet
2020-08-16T19:45:01 < Cracki> not sure if it's precisely a "typedef". I don't see that you can use it to give a type another name.
2020-08-16T19:45:34 < Cracki> looks more like an import statement, pulling something out from a namespace which spares you the full qualification
2020-08-16T19:45:51 < Cracki> ah that? https://en.cppreference.com/w/cpp/language/type_alias
2020-08-16T19:46:28 < Cracki> lol that does look a lot more sensible. the syntax for typedef was funky.
2020-08-16T19:49:53 < zyp> oh, actually c++11
2020-08-16T19:49:56 < zyp> thought it was newer
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2020-08-16T22:01:12 < Mangy_Dog> i might have somne debugging options in visual studio
2020-08-16T22:01:40 < qyx> in what
2020-08-16T22:06:04 < Mangy_Dog> visual studio... with an arduino extension
2020-08-16T22:06:07 < Cracki> Laurenceb, so shelf life = spicy... by that definition, rotting food is very fresh
2020-08-16T22:06:10 < Mangy_Dog> not vscode
2020-08-16T22:06:34 < Mangy_Dog> figured out how to get break points working
2020-08-16T22:06:47 < Mangy_Dog> not figured out how to show register states
2020-08-16T22:08:19 < Mangy_Dog> but the extension is a trial....
2020-08-16T22:08:33 < Mangy_Dog> no idea how long it alsts or how much it costs
2020-08-16T22:09:04 < Mangy_Dog> and while it does compile, the ide is reporting errirs on things like uint8_t
2020-08-16T22:09:11 < Mangy_Dog> so something isnt linking
2020-08-16T22:14:49 < Mangy_Dog> hmmm
2020-08-16T22:15:03 < Mangy_Dog> $49 for a perpetual lisence
2020-08-16T22:15:10 < Mangy_Dog> 3 yeuars of software update
2020-08-16T22:15:15 < Mangy_Dog> hmmmmm
2020-08-16T22:15:26 < Mangy_Dog> thats not terrible... if i get this to work
2020-08-16T22:16:52 < zyp> heh
2020-08-16T22:18:51 < Mangy_Dog> boo
2020-08-16T22:19:02 < Mangy_Dog> visual studio doesnt automatically ifdef header files
2020-08-16T22:20:14 < Mangy_Dog> my brain is getting tired
2020-08-16T22:20:21 < Mangy_Dog> ill have another good look at this tomorrow
2020-08-16T22:20:25 < Mangy_Dog> but its a potential candidate
2020-08-16T22:23:25 < Mangy_Dog> extensions visual micro
2020-08-16T22:23:28 < Mangy_Dog> if anyone knows of it
2020-08-16T22:23:33 < Mangy_Dog> or wants to tell me to run away from it
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2020-08-16T22:32:42 < zyp> I don't know it, I'm just curious what makes it worth paying for
2020-08-16T22:32:50 < Cracki> screw #ifdef include guards, use #pragma once
2020-08-16T22:34:37 < Mangy_Dog> well everyone is telling me to use something with debugging
2020-08-16T22:34:45 < Mangy_Dog> ive tried the usual route and struggled tog et them working
2020-08-16T22:34:50 < Mangy_Dog> visiual studio seems stable
2020-08-16T22:34:54 < Mangy_Dog> as does this extension
2020-08-16T22:34:58 < zyp> what usual route?
2020-08-16T22:35:01 < Mangy_Dog> though i think i need to fix some stuff
2020-08-16T22:35:12 < Mangy_Dog> openobd and gbd or soemthing
2020-08-16T22:36:33 < zyp> Cracki, I should probably do that at some point
2020-08-16T22:36:37 < zyp> old habits die hard
2020-08-16T22:37:18 < Mangy_Dog> open ocd i mean
2020-08-16T22:37:51 < Mangy_Dog> but ive been wanting to get away from eclipse anyway
2020-08-16T22:37:58 < Mangy_Dog> its too fragile
2020-08-16T22:38:51 < PaulFertser> I've heard good reviews about VS with GDB debugging plugin
2020-08-16T22:40:20 < zyp> Mangy_Dog, most IDEs you can pick will probably be using gdb and openocd in the background anyway (unless you use one from a competing compiler vendor or something)
2020-08-16T22:41:25 < zyp> so in either case it'd probably be good to familiarize yourself with the tools so you know what to do when they break
2020-08-16T22:43:00 < zyp> what does vs offer over vscode for arm development?
2020-08-16T22:43:24 < zyp> I'd expect vscode to have usable plugins for debugging, although I haven't tried them myself
2020-08-16T22:50:04 < PaulFertser> VisualGDB
2020-08-16T22:51:23 < Mangy_Dog> zyp i dont know yet
2020-08-16T22:55:28 < PaulFertser> Hundred bucks for the cheapest version
2020-08-16T22:56:18 < zyp> judging by https://www.justinmklam.com/posts/2017/10/vscode-debugger-setup/ vscode should work fine
2020-08-16T22:56:54 < zyp> I like the remote pipe trick the top comment mentions too
2020-08-16T22:58:13 < emeb> zyp: have you ever instanced your own Verilog code within a Litex design?
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2020-08-16T22:59:59 < zyp> no, I haven't seen a need to write verilog when I can write migen :)
2020-08-16T23:00:20 < zyp> but I have instanced fpga primitives, which should be fairly similar
2020-08-16T23:00:58 < emeb> Yeah, I've got the instancing figured out. Thing I don't know is how to point Litex / Yosys at the verilog source for what's inside the instances.
2020-08-16T23:00:59 < zyp> I figure the main difference is when you're instancing something from verilog you also need to tell it to include the .v in the build
2020-08-16T23:01:09 < zyp> right
2020-08-16T23:01:14 < zyp> I'll have a look
2020-08-16T23:01:28 < emeb> just putting the .v file in with the .py files doesn't work
2020-08-16T23:03:05 < zyp> try platform.add_source('foo.v')
2020-08-16T23:04:09 < zyp> https://github.com/enjoy-digital/litex/blob/master/litex/build/generic_platform.py#L352 <- these four methods looks like what you use to add external sources to the build
2020-08-16T23:05:14 < emeb> that seems to work.
2020-08-16T23:05:20 < zyp> :)
2020-08-16T23:05:35 < emeb> thx
2020-08-16T23:06:54 < emeb> ah - add_source_dir is even better.
2020-08-16T23:10:06 < emeb> oh nice - it's even smart enough to find the .memh files
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2020-08-16T23:45:08 < Mangy_Dog> the ther issue is with platformio/vscode for some reason dfuman cant find the file to upload... ive started having the same issue in eclipse too
2020-08-16T23:45:13 < Mangy_Dog> but runs in arduio ide
2020-08-16T23:45:27 < Mangy_Dog> this is all since yesterday when being told to get various different files to try
2020-08-16T23:45:30 < Mangy_Dog> breaks things :/
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--- Day changed Mon Aug 17 2020
2020-08-17T00:01:49 < Cracki> there are ways to unbreak that, the first being to uninstall/undo
2020-08-17T00:02:49 < Mangy_Dog> tried
2020-08-17T00:02:54 < Mangy_Dog> it left it broken
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2020-08-17T00:04:14 < jly> get a load of this
2020-08-17T00:04:27 < zyp> no
2020-08-17T00:04:29 < Mangy_Dog> if youre next line is some spammy url
2020-08-17T00:04:37 < Mangy_Dog> imgoing to call you a spam bot
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2020-08-17T00:05:18 < Cracki> the eternal jly
2020-08-17T00:06:12 < jly> hey how about a little bit of it
2020-08-17T00:06:57 < R2COM>  I bought VisualGDB and used it for a while
2020-08-17T00:07:00 < R2COM> and i stopped
2020-08-17T00:07:05 < R2COM> i moved back to console gdb debugging
2020-08-17T00:07:20 < R2COM> VisualGDB breaks every now and then and you have to wait for updates to fix stuff
2020-08-17T00:07:37 < R2COM> nice idea...nice try.... but no... MSVC is super PRO IDE but for Win development only
2020-08-17T00:07:48 < R2COM> VisualGDB is not a reliable tool
2020-08-17T00:08:49 < jly> R2PRO
2020-08-17T00:08:51 < Mangy_Dog> i was on about visual micro
2020-08-17T00:08:55 < R2COM> yo
2020-08-17T00:08:57 < Mangy_Dog> for visual studio
2020-08-17T00:08:58 < R2COM> whats up nigger
2020-08-17T00:10:11 < jly> just tryin to steal houses from white men
2020-08-17T00:11:14 < Steffanx> Whoooaa jly :ooooooo
2020-08-17T00:12:22 < jly> checkin'
2020-08-17T00:12:28 < jly> sup dutchman of waffle
2020-08-17T00:12:52 < jly> is it safe to pump in here
2020-08-17T00:13:02 < jly> maybe i can PuLL a few 
2020-08-17T00:14:59 < Steffanx> Yeah its safe. You'll ban yourself for a few months after anyway ;)
2020-08-17T00:15:09 < Steffanx> SAFU
2020-08-17T00:15:09 < jly> yeah
2020-08-17T00:15:23 < jly> sounds all fucked up
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2020-08-17T00:51:58 < R2COM> im using 1 4k monitor almost 95% of time i feel that i need to tucking get rid of this 1080 2nd monitor nearby
2020-08-17T00:52:29 < R2COM> you use it less and less, and all it does is displaying desktop wallpaper
2020-08-17T00:52:50 < Steffanx> You need a 2nd 4k monitor 
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2020-08-17T01:13:26 < Cracki> use for datashieeets
2020-08-17T01:29:20 < R2COM> i got my ipadpro for all manuals/sketches/ds/etc
2020-08-17T01:29:42 < R2COM> actually i use rm/ds on main monitor cuz its so much better
2020-08-17T01:29:50 < R2COM> i view 2x pages of pdf on this 4k monitor
2020-08-17T01:30:29 < R2COM> the only time 2nd monitor *might* be useful is if its smaller 24" oriented vertically
2020-08-17T01:30:39 < R2COM> so that you dont turn head by more than 15deg
2020-08-17T01:31:56 < R2COM> hmm i wonder if there are something like "auxiliary monitors" like even smaller ones with 4k
2020-08-17T01:32:25 -!- leorat [~leorat@unaffiliated/leorat] has quit [Quit: Leaving]
2020-08-17T01:32:59 < R2COM> https://www.amazon.com/UPERFECT-Computer-Portable-Monitors-Raspberry/dp/B07R7QH787/ref=sr_1_1_sspa?dchild=1&keywords=mini+monitor&qid=1597617140&refinements=p_n_feature_thirteen_browse-bin%3A17751773011&rnid=17751770011&s=pc&sr=1-1-spons&psc=1&spLa=ZW5jcnlwdGVkUXVhbGlmaWVyPUEzUU1SN0VXTU5HVklMJmVuY3J5cHRlZElkPUEwNDEwOTIxMkNaOFJOVFRXSEU0NSZlbmNyeXB0ZWRBZElkPUEwMTkzNzc5MklKN0pVTUtGTFhKSSZ3aWRnZ
2020-08-17T01:32:59 < R2COM> XROYW1lPXNwX2F0ZiZhY3Rpb249Y2xpY2tSZWRpcmVjdCZkb05vdExvZ0NsaWNrPXRydWU=
2020-08-17T01:33:01 < R2COM> lol
2020-08-17T01:33:18 < R2COM> too pricey for such little shit
2020-08-17T01:37:43 < Cracki> there are kits to give an ipad retina panel (2048x1536) a displayport
2020-08-17T01:38:13 < Cracki> not sure if that's economical now. 1440p panels cost comparable
2020-08-17T01:38:37 < Cracki> https://hackaday.com/2019/07/18/put-those-ipad-displays-to-work-with-this-edp-adapter/
2020-08-17T01:41:13 < Cracki> http://dp2retina.rozsnyo.com/
2020-08-17T01:41:14 < R2COM> nah screw all that
2020-08-17T01:41:25 < R2COM> i think just having 1 4k monitor of 27" is all one needs
2020-08-17T01:41:56 < R2COM> i just want someone to make reasonably priced 4k @ 120hz already for my gaming needs as well
2020-08-17T01:42:07 < Cracki> true true
2020-08-17T01:42:21 < R2COM> its time ...not sure why they fuck they still cant make it
2020-08-17T01:42:49 < Cracki> I might even go up in diagonal. 4k/27" is 163 dpi
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2020-08-17T01:43:30 < R2COM> so?>
2020-08-17T01:43:44 < Cracki> I like more pixels but also more area
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2020-08-17T01:43:50 < Cracki> don't need the pixels to be too small
2020-08-17T01:44:08 < Cracki> nice big screen for watching movies from a bit of distance
2020-08-17T01:44:37 < R2COM> https://www.amazon.com/Acer-XB273K-Gpbmiipprzx-Compatible-DisplayHDR/dp/B07X5MWMDG
2020-08-17T01:44:38 < R2COM> ^
2020-08-17T01:44:40 < R2COM> what about that one?
2020-08-17T01:44:52 < R2COM> i mean, that one is 4k @144hz capable
2020-08-17T01:44:56 < R2COM> i think with two dp ports..
2020-08-17T01:45:11 < Cracki> my eyes regularly complain when I look at natural scenes (with depth) where my eyes try to adjust to the perceived distance, which isn't the screen in focus or parallax
2020-08-17T01:45:25 < Cracki> looks very gamey
2020-08-17T01:45:32 < Cracki> has gaysync
2020-08-17T01:45:41 < R2COM> so what
2020-08-17T01:45:48 < Cracki> I think that's useful?
2020-08-17T01:46:06 < Cracki> lol "overclocking"
2020-08-17T01:46:45 < R2COM> 120hz enough
2020-08-17T01:46:48 < R2COM> https://www.acer.com/ac/en/US/content/conceptd-model/UM.HC1AA.P02
2020-08-17T01:46:50 < Cracki> these displays could just have a gaming mode where backlight switches from constant on to a short bright flash for every frame. that would reduce motion blur a lot, even at 60 hz.
2020-08-17T01:46:50 < R2COM> another
2020-08-17T01:46:52 < R2COM> $2.2k
2020-08-17T01:46:56 < Cracki> CRTs are popular because of that.
2020-08-17T01:47:08 < Cracki> wew that's a lot of money
2020-08-17T01:47:29 < Cracki> looks artsy, they're selling to moneyed artsies
2020-08-17T01:47:56 < R2COM> first one is actually might be ok
2020-08-17T01:47:59 < R2COM> $850
2020-08-17T01:48:00 < Cracki> the shroud suggests it's for people who are gonna calibrate its curves for ambient light and color
2020-08-17T01:48:12 < R2COM> thats what i was about to ask
2020-08-17T01:48:30 < R2COM> so then you remove shrouds?
2020-08-17T01:48:34 < R2COM> cuz it looks like shit
2020-08-17T01:48:57 < Cracki> standard monitors, even the artsy ones, assume a specific level of ambient light, which isn't darkness and isn't brightly lit factory floor either
2020-08-17T01:49:08 < Cracki> you can remove the shrouds if you don't like them
2020-08-17T01:49:21 < Cracki> it's for photo and video production
2020-08-17T01:49:36 < R2COM> its kinda stupid why photo production needs 144hz?
2020-08-17T01:49:37 < R2COM> lol
2020-08-17T01:49:43 < Cracki> video might
2020-08-17T01:49:44 < R2COM> my monitor which is 4k just enough for that
2020-08-17T01:49:44 < Cracki> not sure
2020-08-17T01:49:50 < R2COM> even video...
2020-08-17T01:50:04 < R2COM> 144hz is for very fast dynamic shit like fps games and fast aiming etc
2020-08-17T01:50:23 < R2COM> i cant imagine anything other than gaming needing 120hz i might be wrong tho
2020-08-17T01:50:24 < R2COM> well
2020-08-17T01:50:28 < R2COM> movies...some maybe yes
2020-08-17T01:50:38 < R2COM> video ok, definitely not for phot artists
2020-08-17T01:51:13 < Cracki> not even movies. the "HFR" movies are produced in 48 hz or something like that
2020-08-17T01:51:27 < Cracki> other video is 50/60 hz and that's already fast
2020-08-17T01:51:59 < R2COM> right
2020-08-17T01:52:11 < R2COM> so if some artist pays $2.2 for this shit then he is 100% gay
2020-08-17T01:52:41 < Cracki> gawd I wish people stopped having such potatos for smartphone cameras. the ahmaud arbery videos are absolute shit (also camera handling)
2020-08-17T01:52:55 < Cracki> everyone should record in optically stabilized 4k60
2020-08-17T01:53:10 < R2COM> i play my VR @ 120hz tho
2020-08-17T01:53:15 < R2COM> space sim
2020-08-17T01:53:24 < R2COM> you want high refresh rate there
2020-08-17T01:53:39 < Cracki> yes, motion blur sucks
2020-08-17T01:54:02 < Cracki> but that's only a problem with TFTs. if these things acted like CRTs, they'd flicker but you would have no motion blur
2020-08-17T01:54:14 < R2COM> yeah if i aim railgun i want to aim to solid looking stuff not blurred stuff
2020-08-17T01:54:46 < Cracki> https://www.tftcentral.co.uk/articles/motion_blur.htm
2020-08-17T01:54:58 < R2COM> at work most people have 2 1080p monitors on desks
2020-08-17T01:54:59 < R2COM> lol
2020-08-17T01:55:04 < R2COM> those people are real degenerates
2020-08-17T01:55:29 < Cracki> i could bear 2x 1080p. some years ago an employer tried to make me use some kind of 19" 1280x1024 thingie
2020-08-17T01:57:18 < R2COM> no, i request stuff i want
2020-08-17T01:57:29 < R2COM> and if they say something i say fuck off i need it for work
2020-08-17T01:57:47 < Cracki> I too told them nope fhd at minimum
2020-08-17T01:57:57 < R2COM> hmm i dont recall that lightboost
2020-08-17T01:58:00 < R2COM> on that post
2020-08-17T01:59:49 < R2COM> if you are a hardcore gamer @ fps and uber competitive then you pretty much live with that 2k @ 144hz
2020-08-17T02:00:07 < R2COM> but for most games i want actually 4k, and speed doesnt matter much
2020-08-17T02:00:15 < R2COM> space sim in my VR already does 4k @ 120hz
2020-08-17T02:00:22 < Cracki> they describe a 'scanning backlight'. i think that's retarded. just make the whole backlight flash once per frame. pixel response times almost don't matter as long as they settle within half a frame time, or something like that
2020-08-17T02:00:44 < R2COM> blur is basically leftover from "previous sca" rite
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2020-08-17T02:00:55 < R2COM> scan*
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2020-08-17T02:01:31 < Cracki> normally blur is when objects move while the eye is still. here, blur is when the eye moves (tracks some object), but the pixels of the screen stay "lit" for a whole frame
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2020-08-17T02:02:19 < Cracki> eh, now I know that I might wanna look for "nvidia lightboost"
2020-08-17T02:02:26 < R2COM> yes
2020-08-17T02:03:34 < Cracki> I'm flipping tables already with 24p/30p videos. the objects in them are clear, but if they move, they're a smear
2020-08-17T02:03:57 < Cracki> if the screen flashed at 24/30 hz, they wouldn't be
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2020-08-17T02:05:04 < Cracki> btw, these guys still have an old version that's absolutely free https://www.svp-team.com/
2020-08-17T02:05:24 < Cracki> upsample anything to 60 fps or more using optical flow
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2020-08-17T03:10:15 < aandrew> https://imgur.com/a/VRsQkxF two graphs now
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2020-08-17T03:32:13 < R2COM> wow thats the hell of an invention
2020-08-17T03:32:39 < aandrew> just needed a quick way to visualize some ADC data
2020-08-17T03:32:44 < aandrew> that's where the innovtaion is
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2020-08-17T03:32:50 < aandrew> not the i2c display
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2020-08-17T04:55:15 < Cracki> got an aliex link to that display handy perchance?
2020-08-17T04:55:50 < Cracki> looks like this very much https://www.aliexpress.com/item/32819880935.html
2020-08-17T04:59:46 < Cracki> they label it as "4 pin iic spi", it can't be both. the 7 pin versions (different oled displays) are definitely spi
2020-08-17T05:28:22 < aandrew> Cracki: the display?
2020-08-17T05:28:32 < Cracki> ye
2020-08-17T05:28:48 < aandrew> yeah that's it, I got mine of amazon for about 10x the price but didn't have to wait 60-90 days
2020-08-17T05:28:56 < Cracki> hehehe
2020-08-17T05:29:18 < Cracki> whatcha using to put pixels on it? diy?
2020-08-17T05:29:29 < Cracki> (in terms of software)
2020-08-17T05:30:14 < aandrew> I like that one better: https://www.aliexpress.com/item/4000465625534.html
2020-08-17T05:30:58 < aandrew> Cracki: yeah, it's just a little framebuffer I push without any optimization
2020-08-17T05:30:59 < Cracki> bit more breathing room yes. for graphical stuff I'd go taller but the "row" type seems nice too
2020-08-17T05:31:17 < Cracki> any DMA involved?
2020-08-17T05:32:23 < Cracki> I'm looking for hal i2c docs/examples in the meanwhile
2020-08-17T05:33:06 < Cracki> ah all good
2020-08-17T05:33:51 < aandrew> Cracki: https://pastebin.com/V3nDX70z
2020-08-17T05:34:08 < Cracki> thx *save*
2020-08-17T05:34:17 < aandrew> nah I'm not DMAing anything, just regular old blocking I2C I/O
2020-08-17T05:34:50 < Cracki> I guess _it functions would work too
2020-08-17T05:34:53 < aandrew> basically all pixel ops take place in STM32 RAM in the framebuffer, and then you call oled_loop() on the regular and if anything made changes to the framebuffer the entire thing gets updated
2020-08-17T05:34:57 < aandrew> yep
2020-08-17T05:34:59 < Cracki> no need to wait for completion really
2020-08-17T05:35:01 < aandrew> it's stupid simple
2020-08-17T05:35:06 < Cracki> great
2020-08-17T05:36:06 < Cracki> ssd1308 already huh
2020-08-17T05:36:55 < aandrew> you can forget the fastmodeplus too, the display is quite slow
2020-08-17T05:37:30 < Cracki> lol ok. it scrolled fast enough
2020-08-17T05:40:36 < ColdKeyboard> Anyone experiencing this issue with ST-Link
2020-08-17T05:40:42 < ColdKeyboard> -HardRst is available only on ST-LINK/V2 with firmware V2J12S3 and later.
2020-08-17T05:40:46 < Cracki> oh it seems to support scrolling in hardware
2020-08-17T05:40:55 < ColdKeyboard> But then next line is ST-LINK Firmware version: V2J34S7
2020-08-17T05:41:08 < Cracki> funny
2020-08-17T05:41:22 < Cracki> maybe your hostside stuff is too old to know about J34
2020-08-17T05:41:28 < ColdKeyboard> Like I'm not math whiz but 34 should be > 12 :)
2020-08-17T05:41:30 < Cracki> and is getting confused
2020-08-17T05:41:59 < ColdKeyboard> Could be... although it's the latest ST-Link package from STM's website, the 4.5.x 
2020-08-17T05:42:24 < Cracki> https://community.st.com/s/question/0D50X0000AAKPXU/hardrst-command-not-working-with-latest-stm-utility
2020-08-17T05:42:48 < Cracki> u r fucked
2020-08-17T05:42:59 < ColdKeyboard> Oh nice
2020-08-17T05:43:02 < Cracki> maybe add your voice to this bug report they blithely ignore
2020-08-17T05:43:18 < ColdKeyboard> I should do that
2020-08-17T05:43:40 < ColdKeyboard> Also I'll switch to J-Link... just have to find in which box did I "store" it :)
2020-08-17T05:44:23 < Cracki> yeah aandrew, ssd1308 ds says i2c clock 2.5 us/400khz at best
2020-08-17T05:44:37 < Cracki> oh well that's plenty for a 1-bit display of a few pixels
2020-08-17T05:45:03 < aandrew> yep that's why I like these. they're cheap and simple, perfect for quick and dirty debuggery
2020-08-17T05:49:09 < ColdKeyboard> Also wanted to ask for a while; What do you guys use for debugging FW? Any GUI GDB application for Windows that you can recommend or do you guys go old-school and do it through cmd line :)
2020-08-17T05:49:27 < Cracki> at the moment, jlink + ozone
2020-08-17T05:49:45 < ColdKeyboard> I tried Ozone, it's really nice GUI
2020-08-17T05:49:59 < Cracki> cba to commandline it, i'm not leet enough
2020-08-17T05:51:51 < Cracki> I might look into getting vscode set up to use the jlink gdb server and/or openocd... don't know yet if it requires me to start either server manually _every_ time I hit debug, or only once and it stays running, or not at all because it's smart enough to do it implicitly, I'll have to find out
2020-08-17T05:52:27 < Cracki> (using jlink mostly, but stlink may be more convenient sometimes)
2020-08-17T06:00:32 < ColdKeyboard> *sigh* This is kind of painfull but I have to switch to JLink so I can use Ozone...
2020-08-17T06:01:10 < ColdKeyboard> Serial output stops working as soon as I get first EXTI interrupt but LED that blinks inside a SysTick keeps blinking :\
2020-08-17T06:05:38 < aandrew> ColdKeyboard: I use gdb a lot but Ozone is amazing 
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2020-08-17T06:16:54 < ColdKeyboard> 100% agree
2020-08-17T06:17:04 < ColdKeyboard> I'm surprised there aren't more GUI's for GDB...
2020-08-17T06:23:54 < ColdKeyboard> I'm a bit confused. When EXTI happens, after handling it what flags/registers do I have to clear so it won't fire up again?
2020-08-17T06:24:25 < ColdKeyboard> For some reason CPU seems to loop within EXTI9_5_IRQHandler... 9-5, working hard for the money, eh *badum-ts* :)
2020-08-17T06:27:04 < Cracki> how did you configure that exti
2020-08-17T06:27:12 < Cracki> anything funky like level triggering?
2020-08-17T06:27:52 < ColdKeyboard> It's configured as GPIO_MODE_IT_FALLING with GPIO_PULLUP
2020-08-17T06:28:46 < Cracki> I use exti too and I neither remember nor see in the code that I would need to reset anything but maybe hal and cubemx codegen do that for me in a place I don't see
2020-08-17T06:29:12 < Cracki> how exactly does it loop? can you singlestep out of it and end up somewhere else?
2020-08-17T06:29:23 < Cracki> try singlestepping in the assembly view
2020-08-17T06:29:38 < Cracki> maybe stack corruption
2020-08-17T06:29:52 < Cracki> would be a lucky corruption tho
2020-08-17T06:30:10 < ColdKeyboard> I can sinle step and it will execute 2 next instructions and then it goes back to EXTI interrupt
2020-08-17T06:30:26 < Cracki> oook
2020-08-17T06:30:32 < Cracki> what's toggling the pin
2020-08-17T06:30:42 < ColdKeyboard> It works fine until first int happens. Something is fishy here. Let me scope the line
2020-08-17T06:30:49 < ColdKeyboard> Nothing, I do it manually with jumper wire
2020-08-17T06:30:50 < Cracki> it might be toggling while you singlestep, hence entering it again before much happens
2020-08-17T06:30:55 < Cracki> ok
2020-08-17T06:31:19 < Cracki> well you could try clearing the interrupt flag explicitly?
2020-08-17T06:31:28 < Cracki> I don't know why you would need to but eh
2020-08-17T06:31:38 < ColdKeyboard> I did, doesn't do anything... :\
2020-08-17T06:32:03 < Cracki> oh look I guess you _might_ wanna clear the bit https://stm32f4-discovery.net/2014/08/stm32f4-external-interrupts-tutorial/
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2020-08-17T06:33:04 < Cracki> ah right, hal seems to handle that. i have my EXTI9_5_IRQHandler calling HAL_GPIO_EXTI_IRQHandler, which does stuff and then calls HAL_GPIO_EXTI_Callback
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2020-08-17T06:33:22 < Cracki> you did?
2020-08-17T06:33:26 < Cracki> how do you clear it
2020-08-17T06:33:52 < ColdKeyboard> Just confirmed, nothing is holding the line low after I release it. It goes back to VCC
2020-08-17T06:34:11 < ColdKeyboard> I did '__HAL_GPIO_EXTI_CLEAR_IT(EXTI9_5_IRQn);' and '__HAL_GPIO_EXTI_CLEAR_FLAG(EXTI9_5_IRQn);' and HAL_NVIC_ClearPendingIRQ(EXTI9_5_IRQn);'
2020-08-17T06:34:41 < Cracki> try EXTI_ClearITPendingBit(...)
2020-08-17T06:35:25 < Cracki> it's late/early my concentration is as shallow as a puddle
2020-08-17T06:35:48 < Cracki> ah that seems to be an SPL call, ignore
2020-08-17T06:36:23 < ColdKeyboard> That HAL function doesn't exist? :\
2020-08-17T06:36:46 < Cracki> right, apparently it's an old stdperiph call and that page I found there is from 2014...
2020-08-17T06:36:54 < Cracki> sorry for confusing you
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2020-08-17T06:39:59 < ColdKeyboard> No, you're actually helping a lot. Thx for spending your time trying to help :)
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2020-08-17T06:44:36 < ColdKeyboard> Lol. I added value increment inside ISR... after few seconds I can se it going to 10 million... :)
2020-08-17T06:44:38 < ColdKeyboard> I broke something :)
2020-08-17T06:45:04 < Cracki> time to start from scratch and replicate only exti and led toggling
2020-08-17T06:45:56 < Cracki> or maybe peel open the register map view and see where the exti flag is
2020-08-17T06:46:07 < Cracki> and check that it's actually getting cleared
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2020-08-17T06:49:02 < ColdKeyboard> Ok, I found what was the issue, although I'm not sure why it's working now...
2020-08-17T06:49:19 < ColdKeyboard> Inside 'void EXTI9_5_IRQHandler(void)' I've added -> HAL_GPIO_EXTI_IRQHandler(TACHO1_GPIO_PIN);
2020-08-17T06:49:36 < ColdKeyboard> And then created my own `void HAL_GPIO_EXTI_Callback(uint16_t GPIO_Pin)` function and now it works fine :\
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2020-08-17T07:50:59 < ColdKeyboard> Maye newbie question but how do you update PWM period "on-the-fly"?
2020-08-17T07:51:34 < ColdKeyboard> I tried calling HAL_TIM_PWM_ConfigChannel again and also doing TIM4->CCR1 = pwmVal; but neither of those seems to work
2020-08-17T08:12:51 < ColdKeyboard> Since this channel is logged. In case anyone has a same issue or I come back and ask the same question month later... Calling __HAL_TIM_SET_COMPARE did the trick for me. :)
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2020-08-17T12:53:15 < Mangy_Dog> aandrew questions....  temp sensor using a transistor... IE the transistor is the temp probe?  and your table glass is broken?
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2020-08-17T15:18:01 < zyp> hmm, I'm reconsidering what I've said before about not needing a microscope
2020-08-17T15:18:22 < zyp> https://bin.jvnv.net/file/97ZDl.jpg <- hitting the right pins on this shit is a pain
2020-08-17T15:18:27 < zyp> I was going for the seventh
2020-08-17T15:24:42 < invzim> microscope ftw
2020-08-17T15:25:05 < invzim> is that .4mm pitch?
2020-08-17T15:25:34 < zyp> .5
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2020-08-17T15:33:53 < zyp> I think this should be fine: https://bin.jvnv.net/file/TMc00.jpg
2020-08-17T15:35:23 < Mangy_Dog> i really want a microscope
2020-08-17T15:35:57 < Mangy_Dog> and yes even on the f103 counting in from the edge of the pins to prob by eyesight alone is a scary task
2020-08-17T15:36:16 < Mangy_Dog> or with qfn pins :D
2020-08-17T15:36:35 < Mangy_Dog> genuingly makes my eyes do a wiggle as i try to count
2020-08-17T15:39:07 < invzim> when age >= shoesize, stuff happens
2020-08-17T15:39:31 < zyp> I'm not there yet
2020-08-17T15:39:49 < zyp> my main problem at the moment is that I don't have enough light
2020-08-17T15:40:01 < zyp> don't got a worklight, only the ceiling light
2020-08-17T15:40:11 < emeryth> Mangy_Dog: start with a big magnifying glass lamp, it's way more comfortable
2020-08-17T15:40:17 < Mangy_Dog> oh i have that issue too
2020-08-17T15:40:28 < Mangy_Dog> been considering one of those arc lights as a project
2020-08-17T15:40:40 < Mangy_Dog> emeryth been trying to find some of those too
2020-08-17T15:40:46 < Mangy_Dog> but i cant find any large ones for a reasonable price
2020-08-17T15:40:57 < Mangy_Dog> not even on ali
2020-08-17T15:42:06 < invzim> I just became a member of the Makita fanboy club, and as the drill I got had 2 big batteries, I ordered a DEADML801 for not that much
2020-08-17T15:49:13 < zyp> https://bin.jvnv.net/file/oQZwd.jpg
2020-08-17T15:49:22 < zyp> there we go, all ready to scope
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2020-08-17T15:51:53 < Mangy_Dog> :o
2020-08-17T15:51:56 < Mangy_Dog> looks like fun
2020-08-17T15:52:09 < Mangy_Dog> strange board though
2020-08-17T15:52:13 < Mangy_Dog> cant see any surface traces
2020-08-17T15:52:20 < Mangy_Dog> top layer gound flodded?
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2020-08-17T16:02:51  * rapha is also a member of the makita fanboi club, unfortunately without any makita tool of his own
2020-08-17T16:03:14 < rapha> zyp: what kind of IC is that?
2020-08-17T16:09:28 < zyp> ethernet switch
2020-08-17T16:09:55 < zyp> two 100base-tx ports and one RMII port, hooked to the MCU you see on the right side in the pic
2020-08-17T16:10:15 < zyp> it misbehaves a bit, so I wanna scope the RMII signals to figure out what's going on
2020-08-17T16:38:50 < aandrew> Mangy_Dog: yes, using B-E drop with a constant current. Kitchen table is supposed to look like that. :-)
2020-08-17T16:39:11 < aandrew> Zyp: what’re you probing 
2020-08-17T16:39:23 < aandrew> Ahh RMII
2020-08-17T16:39:57 < Mangy_Dog> ahhh mart
2020-08-17T16:40:00 < Mangy_Dog> smart
2020-08-17T16:40:10 < Mangy_Dog> had no idea it could do that
2020-08-17T16:42:29 < Mangy_Dog> im scared, i placed an order of tlc5947 on ali, 7 days ago... say 6 as it was late.....  they just turned up
2020-08-17T16:42:32 < Mangy_Dog> i dont even get post sent from the uk that fast
2020-08-17T16:51:53 < aandrew> wtf how did you manage that? did you pay for fancy shipping?
2020-08-17T16:52:01 < aandrew> almost all my ali stuff is 60-90 days
2020-08-17T16:52:13 < aandrew> although since covid it'd been like 120-150
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2020-08-17T16:53:26 < Mangy_Dog> nope normal shipping
2020-08-17T16:53:36 < aandrew> wtf man that's incredible
2020-08-17T16:53:43 < Mangy_Dog> indeed
2020-08-17T16:53:46 < Mangy_Dog> i was really shocked
2020-08-17T16:54:28 < Mangy_Dog> it must have been one of those planits have aligned moments... where the seller got it into the post office just in time as it was being shipped to the sorting office and airport just happened to meet a plane just before heading off
2020-08-17T16:54:34 < Mangy_Dog> planets
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2020-08-17T17:20:52 < Sadale> you lucky
2020-08-17T17:21:23 < Sadale> I think it's probably using air shipping instead of surface shipping. No way that surface shipping'd be that fast.
2020-08-17T17:21:59 < Mangy_Dog> i think to the eu china post is normally air shipping
2020-08-17T17:22:06 < Mangy_Dog> what usually happens is it comes here via belgium
2020-08-17T17:22:12 < Mangy_Dog> but i guess this time i landed in the uk direct
2020-08-17T17:23:54 < jadew`> there was a brief period when all china stuff came here within one or two weeks
2020-08-17T17:23:57 < jadew`> it was great
2020-08-17T17:27:49  * Sadale is happy being in China (in Hong Kong SAR) \o/
2020-08-17T17:28:07 < Sadale> Here in Hong Kong it isn't as fast as shipping to mainland China. But it's still rather fast.
2020-08-17T17:28:19 < Sadale> way faster than outside China.
2020-08-17T17:30:53 < aandrew> hey jadew` how do you say "I'm sorry for your loss" in .ro? or what is the phrase you say to someone who's mom died
2020-08-17T17:31:57 < jadew`> you'd say "condoleanțe", but I'd stick to saying the english version
2020-08-17T17:32:20 < aandrew> jadew`: ok
2020-08-17T17:32:49 < jadew`> assuming the person understands english
2020-08-17T17:34:44 < jadew`> is anyone aware of a cheap and capable calibration lab in the EU?
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2020-08-17T17:46:03 < zyp> hmm, acetone won't eat solder mask, will it?
2020-08-17T17:46:31 < zyp> I've got another board with a delaminated pad
2020-08-17T17:46:53 < zyp> there's a via next to the pad that I can connect to, but it's tented
2020-08-17T17:47:34 < jadew`> a hot solder iron will do it
2020-08-17T17:47:48 < jadew`> *soldering
2020-08-17T17:48:05 < zyp> melt the mask? really?
2020-08-17T17:48:27 < jadew`> it can help you scratch it away, yeah
2020-08-17T17:48:34 < jadew`> you need to do this multiple times?
2020-08-17T17:49:13 < jadew`> oh, it's easier with a cutter btw
2020-08-17T17:49:34 < zyp> https://bin.jvnv.net/file/Uq7pv.jpg
2020-08-17T17:49:49 < zyp> there's a via between the pad and the 22R
2020-08-17T17:51:03 < jadew`> got a microscope?
2020-08-17T17:51:20 < Cracki> last time I looked into it, findings indicate that acetone _may_ solve some soldermask types
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2020-08-17T17:51:23 < jadew`> I reshape PCBs regularly with a cutter
2020-08-17T17:51:28 < jadew`> that includes taking the solder mask off
2020-08-17T17:51:56 < Cracki> ye people just use a knife to scrape, or a dremel with whatever's not too coarse
2020-08-17T17:52:05 < aandrew> zyp: nothing fucking eats soldermask
2020-08-17T17:52:34 < aandrew> zyp: anytime I've had to remove it it's had to be abrasion - either fiberglass pen or scratching with a screwdriver or knife blade
2020-08-17T17:53:15 < aandrew> with a nice pointy x-acto knife it's pretty safe to scratch away, I've fixed many tiny vias and 4mil traces that way
2020-08-17T17:53:39 < aandrew> and yes magnification helps, especially if you're a 44 year old fart like me
2020-08-17T17:57:38 < zyp> hmm, dremel might be worth a try
2020-08-17T17:58:38 < jadew`> for a via??
2020-08-17T17:58:53 < zyp> for taking off the mask
2020-08-17T17:59:04 < jadew`> just take a cutter and press on it a little
2020-08-17T17:59:14 < jadew`> it's very brittle
2020-08-17T17:59:48 < Cracki> dremel with the smoothest or softest tool. I doubt there's anything softer than copper though
2020-08-17T18:00:07 < jadew`> aandrew, 44 is the new 20
2020-08-17T18:00:22 < Cracki> comparing shoe sizes
2020-08-17T18:01:19 < jadew`> zyp, get some practice on a different pcb
2020-08-17T18:02:43 < zyp> nevermind, I've been overthinking this
2020-08-17T18:02:45 < zyp> https://bin.jvnv.net/file/urYgy.jpg
2020-08-17T18:02:58 < zyp> wasn't so hard to find
2020-08-17T18:04:57 < zyp> okay, got solder to stick to it too, so that should work out just fine
2020-08-17T18:06:26 < Cracki> acetone does nothing to the green solder mask from jlcpcb I have here
2020-08-17T18:06:52 < jadew`> heat makes it very easy to peal off tho
2020-08-17T18:07:19 < zyp> ended up just scraping with the tip of a cutter
2020-08-17T18:07:30 < jadew`> yep, that works great
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2020-08-17T19:30:53 < Cracki> who q'd have
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2020-08-17T19:47:27 < Steffanx> PaulFertser: no real use case. Just something cheap I can even forget, or just have somewhere in a jacket I randomly take with me. Just for some very basic measurements
2020-08-17T19:48:20 < Steffanx> A continuity test is a must-have
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2020-08-17T19:54:00 < PaulFertser> Steffanx: well, I remember using analog voltmeters without a continuity beeper back in the days. It was OK really. It's not like you really need that beep. So that tiny analog MM seems to be appropriate for the purposes you describe.
2020-08-17T19:55:24 < Steffanx> nah a beep is nice(r) :P
2020-08-17T19:56:04 < PaulFertser> nice but you're choosing here between having no MM at all and having one without a beep.
2020-08-17T19:57:48 < Steffanx> then ill find a tiny one with beep :P
2020-08-17T19:58:21 < Steffanx> i had one, but i lost it.
2020-08-17T19:58:56 < Steffanx> was like the sice of the average credit card, and less than one cm thick.
2020-08-17T19:59:20 < PaulFertser> Please share when you find onee
2020-08-17T19:59:51 < Steffanx> *size
2020-08-17T20:00:51 < Steffanx> i dont think it was cheap though
2020-08-17T20:04:07 < Steffanx> ok i lied PaulFertser, it was a tiny bit larger than my credit card. Also 10.5mm not < 1cm :P
2020-08-17T20:04:19 < Steffanx> but it somethinga a lie when its just your memory that is bad?
2020-08-17T20:04:41 < Steffanx> *but is
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2020-08-17T20:04:44 < Steffanx> it must have been this one https://www.bkprecision.com/products/discontinued/2700-pocket-dmm-w-bargraph.html
2020-08-17T20:05:07 < Steffanx> or some clonish thing of that
2020-08-17T20:05:36 < Steffanx> since i dont recall it said bk precision on the case, but .. perhaps that's also my bad memory :P
2020-08-17T20:11:22 < PaulFertser> Steffanx: interesting device
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2020-08-17T22:17:09 < Cracki> apropos beep, sometimes it's annoying, such as when I have to fiddle with stuff while someone is holding a talk or lecture
2020-08-17T22:17:40 < Cracki> light indicator instead might be a tolerable replacement
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2020-08-17T22:47:14 < qyx> re lorawan, englishman may know
2020-08-17T22:47:25 < qyx> in what cases do I need to certify my device for LoRaWAN
2020-08-17T22:49:11 < qyx> if I understand that correctly, it is required only if I want to mark the device as LoRaWAN compatible
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2020-08-18T11:27:48 < Hamilton> https://medium.com/@kurtisknodel/all-my-homies-hate-c-9690192a0aa3
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2020-08-18T11:38:02 < zyp> it's a bit inconsistent
2020-08-18T11:38:43 < qyx> does he even know how to use his windows?
2020-08-18T11:38:49 < zyp> «Recently, I’ve been trying to start graphics programming in Rust. After a lot of experimentation, pain, and frustration, I decided I would roll my own OpenGL wrapper for it.»
2020-08-18T11:38:54 < zyp> «This is why, when it comes right down to it, I just really, really, don’t like C. It’s a hassle to do anything. Compare this process to Rust: Want to use OpenGL? Well, here’s a directory of libraries you can use. Pick one, type in a single command, and bada bing, bada boom, you got OpenGL support.»
2020-08-18T11:39:02 < qyx> his problem arise from not understanding whats going on
2020-08-18T11:39:24 < srk> like looking for package manager for C
2020-08-18T11:39:26 < srk> on windows
2020-08-18T11:39:39 < srk> which typically is your linux distro of choice .. :D
2020-08-18T11:39:52 < zyp> I mean, that's the whole argument, «C doesn't have a package manager»
2020-08-18T11:39:56 < zyp> and yeah
2020-08-18T11:40:34 < qyx> millenial snowflake
2020-08-18T11:41:43 < zyp> I just find it amusing that in the same article he both argues that «rust is nice because it has a package manager with a bunch of ready to use stuff» and «I didn't like any of the existing packages so I decided to make my own»
2020-08-18T11:42:06 < qyx> heh
2020-08-18T11:42:09 < Hamilton> next round: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=24166861 
2020-08-18T11:42:16 < zyp> I mean, I can see the package manager argument
2020-08-18T11:42:19 < zyp> pypi is great
2020-08-18T11:42:43 < srk> yeah, for C you have git submodule
2020-08-18T11:42:43 < srk> :D
2020-08-18T11:42:46 < Hamilton> "but it is time to ditch C/C++ for MicroPython"
2020-08-18T11:43:36 < zyp> I've yet to try micropython
2020-08-18T11:43:46 < zyp> maybe it's about time soon
2020-08-18T11:44:25 < srk> I have close to no interest in it, I like lua on nodemcu tho
2020-08-18T11:44:32 < Jak_o_Shadows> Is the micropython sufficiently static?
2020-08-18T11:44:52 < Jak_o_Shadows> At work I know another team chose lua
2020-08-18T11:45:00 < qyx> I am not sure if I would use micropython for anything requiring to be static
2020-08-18T11:45:24 < Hamilton> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5LbgyDmRu9s
2020-08-18T11:45:27 < qyx> I have Zephyr on my to-know list
2020-08-18T11:45:46 < qyx> and then integrate micropython there if it is not done yet
2020-08-18T11:45:51 < qyx> which would not surprise me actually
2020-08-18T11:46:25 < jpa-> pawn is ok also if one has simple needs, but being a less popular language has its downsides
2020-08-18T11:46:30 < Hamilton> Imagine Rust Evangelist's face when JS/Python dominates in embedded scene
2020-08-18T11:46:53 < srk> *when* = never :)
2020-08-18T11:47:11 < Jak_o_Shadows> I've been lurking in #zephyr for months
2020-08-18T11:47:22 < Jak_o_Shadows> Not that I think they have any interest in IRC, it's not a setup channel or anything
2020-08-18T11:49:29 < jpa-> hmm, it appears that medium.com post boils down to "linker args for C didn't work out for me, i hate it; rust works automatically"  -  they might be up to a nasty surprise the first time rust linker throws an error :)
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2020-08-18T12:13:40 < Hamilton> jpa-, inb4 man, "system programming is overrated" and "how current_yeary_hype_js_framework & webdev is the future"
2020-08-18T12:19:34 < jpa-> Hamilton: well that's just different scopes, i can see that C wouldn't be the first choice of language for high-level PC software development these days
2020-08-18T12:20:25 < jpa-> i see a lot of promise in rust; it does refuse all of my programs, which is probably the correct choice
2020-08-18T12:47:27 < specing> jpa-: haha C is still the first choice
2020-08-18T12:47:44 < specing> jpa-: Ada has existed for decades and people prefer C
2020-08-18T12:47:50 < specing> same will happen with rust
2020-08-18T12:47:55 < specing> rust is just hype right now
2020-08-18T12:51:41 < jpa-> specing: uh, did you read "... for high-level PC software development"
2020-08-18T12:52:18 < specing> yes
2020-08-18T12:54:18 < jpa-> ok; to me it seems C++ is the most popular for that these days, with Python, C#, javascript etc. being popular also
2020-08-18T12:54:55 < jpa-> i haven't really seen much pure-C PC software in years; even sigrok uses C++ for the gui, even though the library backend is C
2020-08-18T12:54:59 < specing> python is surely more popular than C++
2020-08-18T12:55:08 < specing> but I consider C and C++ one and the same
2020-08-18T12:55:12 < jpa-> ....
2020-08-18T12:56:08 < specing> they have the same problems
2020-08-18T12:56:21 < specing> as C++ almost completely integrates C with its problems
2020-08-18T12:57:53 < jpa-> only in the sense as "C++ permits problematic constructs"; but it also provides less problematic alternatives
2020-08-18T12:58:12 < specing> I'm sure Ada would be as popular as Rust if Google paid AdaCore 450million per year and so AdaCore could pay "influencers" to promote Ada
2020-08-18T12:58:27 < t4nk_freenode> lol.. rust is the hype which ada will never become ;)
2020-08-18T12:58:45 < jpa-> neither rust or ada seem *that* popular in practical development yet
2020-08-18T12:59:02 < jpa-> especially for not-so-critical stuff where a crash is a crash and not a big deal
2020-08-18T12:59:41 < t4nk_freenode> coincidentally, the guy that did the kewl vgalib for stm32... also ported to rust, and loves it
2020-08-18T12:59:47 < t4nk_freenode> I need sleep, gnight.
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2020-08-18T13:05:43 < specing> t4nk_freenode: yes, like I said
2020-08-18T13:06:02 < specing> get someone to fund 450 M$ for paying influencers and Ada will become popular
2020-08-18T13:09:13 < Hamilton> specing, Who has paid what 450 mills for shilling?
2020-08-18T13:12:03 < qyx> anyone offers 450M$?
2020-08-18T13:12:10 < specing> Hamilton: Google funds mozilla
2020-08-18T13:12:38 < Hamilton> specing, yeah but for not be considered as a monopoly and mainly for browser
2020-08-18T13:13:09 < Hamilton> recently they axed Servo team so it doesn't seem mozi//a is caring for Rust
2020-08-18T13:17:19 < specing> Hamilton: yes, but google can't say what mozzila does with that money
2020-08-18T13:17:50 < specing> mozilla knows that google is paying it for monopoly reasons, so it's working on everything but that reason
2020-08-18T13:17:51 < Hamilton> specing, I mean Google's main reason for handing out that sum is for FF to stay around
2020-08-18T13:19:27 < Hamilton> Also I don't think even 5% of that 450 mill go in any meaningful way to the Rust team 
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2020-08-18T13:34:38 < day> specing: why would they pay for monopoly reasons? there are multiple other browsers around that arent going to go anywhere e.g. edge
2020-08-18T13:37:20 < specing> day: edge uses chrome's engine
2020-08-18T13:38:06 < day> specing: i know. but it is still on the browser market, competition
2020-08-18T13:39:11 < Hamilton> I think currently only FF is the only non-trivial browser with out chromium
2020-08-18T13:40:32 < jpa-> mobile safari is not trivial in marketshare
2020-08-18T14:01:39 < englishman> did opera finally switch to chromium
2020-08-18T14:01:50 < Hamilton> jpa-, It has Apple to worry about it
2020-08-18T14:03:11 < jpa-> Hamilton: so?
2020-08-18T14:03:25 < jpa-> does that make it "trivial" somehow?
2020-08-18T14:03:40 < Hamilton> jpa-, no
2020-08-18T14:04:06 < Hamilton> I mean google's lawyers probably thought that Apple could pour money into mobile safari but FF is out in the cold
2020-08-18T14:04:52 < day> luckily chrome mobile sucks, so hopefully FF has enough momentum to stay afloat :|
2020-08-18T14:06:08 < day> i wonder how much work it would be to get a mobile chromium with addon support
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2020-08-18T14:59:59 < benishor> jadew`: what did you end up buying?
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2020-08-18T16:51:29 < bitmask> hmm, this CAT8 cable is thicker than id hoped
2020-08-18T16:51:33 < bitmask> gonna use it for wiring my printer
2020-08-18T16:53:29 < mawk> en.st-stm32cubeide_1.4.0_7511_20200720_0928_amd64.deb_bundle_sh.zip
2020-08-18T16:53:31 < mawk> wtf
2020-08-18T16:53:42 < mawk> it's .tar.ar.sh.zip, litteraly
2020-08-18T16:54:02 < mawk> compressed/packaged between 4 and 5 times
2020-08-18T16:54:58 < jpa-> you know, it's the cube.. everyone who needed to touch it just added extra layer of wrapping because of eww
2020-08-18T16:55:08 < mawk> lol
2020-08-18T16:55:54 < jpa-> there is a reason why st requires login & accepting EULA that stipulates that they are not liable for any mental damage
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2020-08-18T17:10:22 < Steffanx> Cube⁴
2020-08-18T17:10:52 < Steffanx> Time to rematch all the cube movies, and then start with Cube⁴ mawk
2020-08-18T17:10:59 < Steffanx> Rewatch*
2020-08-18T17:21:05 < karlp> man, been a long time since I've watched
2020-08-18T17:21:08 < karlp> them
2020-08-18T17:25:08 < Steffanx> I watched all of them 2 weeks ago. 
2020-08-18T17:25:26 < karlp> life's good then. all nciely recharged the brain wiring?
2020-08-18T17:26:08 < Steffanx> No, it was waaaaay too warm during those weeks. I had a melt down.
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2020-08-18T17:28:59 < specing> Thorn: there's a launch?
2020-08-18T17:31:59 -!- Thorn [~Thorn@unaffiliated/thorn] has quit [Quit: Textual IRC Client: www.textualapp.com]
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2020-08-18T17:37:41 < Thorn> specing yes there is
2020-08-18T17:38:16 < Thorn> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jTMJK7wb0rM
2020-08-18T17:41:17 < mawk> the doctor wanted 5 vials of blood from me Steffanx so I went to the ziekenhuis
2020-08-18T17:41:27 < mawk> apparently I look like a heroinoman
2020-08-18T17:41:33 < mawk> the nurse asked for my favorite vein to draw blood from
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2020-08-18T17:46:34 < mawk> I had to change my KDE theme just for this eclipse shit to not be black-on-black text which is not very handy to code
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2020-08-18T18:00:51 < specing> loool favorite vein
2020-08-18T18:04:12 < Steffanx> Such dutch mawk. :)
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2020-08-18T18:19:53 < mawk> absolument Steffanx 
2020-08-18T18:20:01 < mawk> mon néerlandais est irréprochable
2020-08-18T18:21:04 < mawk> they started giving me embedded stuff to do Steffanx 
2020-08-18T18:21:08 < mawk> finally
2020-08-18T18:21:12 < mawk> PHP is over
2020-08-18T18:21:28 < mawk> all it took is the embedded guy to go on vacation
2020-08-18T18:21:58 < qyx> :D
2020-08-18T18:22:30 < mawk> I should've poisoned him long ago
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2020-08-18T18:38:59 < Steffanx> Easy for you mawk.
2020-08-18T18:39:12 < mawk> why
2020-08-18T18:39:18 < mawk> I'm a very nice person
2020-08-18T18:39:31 < mawk> I can't poison easily
2020-08-18T18:39:43 < mawk> but I do carry poison with me though
2020-08-18T18:39:44 < Steffanx> At least pop was a mental challenge for you 
2020-08-18T18:39:49 < Steffanx> Php 
2020-08-18T18:40:01 < mawk> ah you mean the coding
2020-08-18T18:40:09 < mawk> it's an emotional challenge
2020-08-18T18:40:42 < mawk> "why am I doing this? why are we there? why is there good and PHP on earth? why doesn't god prevent this?"
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2020-08-18T18:40:55 < mawk> PHP is the cause of numerous existential crises
2020-08-18T18:51:04 < qyx> how to get float printf in newlib?
2020-08-18T18:51:12 < qyx> which *.specs is the correct one?
2020-08-18T18:52:19 < Steffanx> Php is fine mawk 😛
2020-08-18T18:52:21 < Steffanx> Its you
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2020-08-18T18:54:13 < qyx> LDFLAGS += --specs=nano.specs -u _printf_float
2020-08-18T18:54:15 < qyx> works
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2020-08-18T18:55:05 < qyx> whoa it added 7568 bytes
2020-08-18T18:55:05 < Steffanx> I was about to say: see the newlib nano readme 
2020-08-18T18:55:32 < qyx> such bold float
2020-08-18T18:56:15 < Cracki> wait until you see the ram requirements :D
2020-08-18T18:58:23 < qyx> under 1K
2020-08-18T18:58:26 < qyx> reasonable
2020-08-18T18:59:15 < Cracki> use an rtos, use reent structures
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2020-08-18T19:31:17 < Cracki> I wonder, has anyone made a "reCAPTCHA" but for subtitling of videos? 45 minutes distributed over 1000 people is ~3 seconds each. make it 10 for some redundancy. that shouldn't be too much to ask.
2020-08-18T19:32:07 < Cracki> yt channels with 100k subscribers can usually get that many views
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2020-08-18T20:01:19 < qyx> what is recaptcha actually doing?
2020-08-18T20:01:47 < qyx> do the use the colleted data somehow?
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2020-08-18T20:28:29 < jpa-> qyx: originally it was used for e.g. book OCR; but nowadays it is just captcha
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2020-08-18T20:35:54 < zyp> isn't it ML training?
2020-08-18T20:38:27 < antto> https://i.imgur.com/BPHhvhm.jpg https://i.imgur.com/R2u38hb.jpg
2020-08-18T20:39:13 < jpa-> it has lots of images, but what does it do?
2020-08-18T20:39:26 < jpa-> program some ancient cpu that comes in dip package?
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2020-08-18T20:40:40 < zyp> it says AVR-ISP6 in the corner
2020-08-18T20:41:25 < antto> f*ck that, look at the cat
2020-08-18T20:41:53 < zyp> meh
2020-08-18T20:42:11 < antto> no, ur "meh" >:(
2020-08-18T20:42:33 < zyp> ground pour looks a bit sketchy
2020-08-18T20:43:08 < zyp> but I guess nothing is fast enough it really matters
2020-08-18T20:43:34 < qyx> meh
2020-08-18T20:43:45 < antto> it's an adapter for replacing an atmega162 with a thicc-er atmega2561 in a particular device
2020-08-18T20:44:32 < qyx> I want to sleep
2020-08-18T20:45:17 < jpa-> so, has anyone on this channel got flu-like symptoms from inhaling flux fumes?
2020-08-18T20:45:44 < qyx> no
2020-08-18T20:45:50 < qyx> what to put inside void vApplicationIdleHook(void)?
2020-08-18T20:45:54 < qyx> any working codez?
2020-08-18T20:46:27 < qyx> https://www.devcoons.com/stm32l4-sleep-mode-using-freertos/
2020-08-18T20:46:28 < qyx> uh oh!
2020-08-18T20:47:06 < zyp> jpa-, did you get some covid flux?
2020-08-18T20:47:39 < jpa-> zyp: not sure, i thought it was either covid or flux, but perhaps its covid flux!
2020-08-18T20:49:16 < zyp> flu-x
2020-08-18T20:51:13 < qyx> I did have the other flu
2020-08-18T20:51:26 < qyx> runny nose
2020-08-18T20:51:38 < zyp> kid had that the other day
2020-08-18T20:51:40 < Steffanx> ohno
2020-08-18T20:51:45 < qyx> kid too
2020-08-18T20:51:49 < Steffanx> i better leave ##stm32 before i catch ##covid32
2020-08-18T20:52:26 < qyx> what does HAL's MODIFY_REG does
2020-08-18T20:52:29 < qyx> do
2020-08-18T20:52:50 < zyp> I guess it MODIFIES REGs
2020-08-18T20:53:02 < Steffanx> MODIFY_REG(REG, CLEARMASK, SETMASK)   WRITE_REG((REG), (((READ_REG(REG)) & (~(CLEARMASK))) | (SETMASK)))
2020-08-18T20:53:15 < jpa-> oh, i must have caught this from qyx, because my only symptom is runny nose
2020-08-18T20:53:40 < qyx> oh indeed it modifies
2020-08-18T20:53:52 < qyx> I don't even have a single copy of HAL
2020-08-18T20:53:54 < GenTooMan> hopefully your feet aren't smelling because then you might have the upside down flu
2020-08-18T20:54:03 < Steffanx> i googled it, qyx :P
2020-08-18T20:54:47 < qyx> so this should work https://paste.jvnv.net/view/hWEOX
2020-08-18T20:54:57 < qyx> waking up on the systick interrupt
2020-08-18T20:55:14 < qyx> obv it doesn't compile
2020-08-18T20:55:39 < zyp> uh
2020-08-18T20:56:12 < zyp> doesn't the enter/exit critical stuff mask/unmask interrupts?
2020-08-18T20:56:20 < zyp> wfi while masked sounds like a bad idea
2020-08-18T20:56:49 < qyx> idk I found it on the interwebs :P
2020-08-18T20:56:55 < qyx> I was curious too
2020-08-18T20:57:52 < zyp> also, are you sure you'll be sleeping long enough that SLEEPDEEP is appropriate?
2020-08-18T20:58:04 < mawk> how do you like sw4stm32
2020-08-18T20:58:22 < zyp> I don't have much experience with low power states, I'm just imagining everything you can fuck up
2020-08-18T20:59:19 < Steffanx> Even just WFI in the idle hook (without basepri stuff) will safe a lot.
2020-08-18T20:59:24 < Steffanx> save
2020-08-18T20:59:25 < Steffanx> idk
2020-08-18T20:59:37 < qyx> it saves about 1/2
2020-08-18T20:59:42 < qyx> I want MORE
2020-08-18T20:59:59 < qyx> tbh I just want to go down from about 2mA to ~200uA
2020-08-18T21:00:04 < Steffanx> heh
2020-08-18T21:00:20 < Steffanx> so go tickless, go into deep sleep and have something wake you up?
2020-08-18T21:00:25 < qyx> slowing down the clock to 4MHz and doing WFI consumes about 0.5mA
2020-08-18T21:00:46 < qyx> so i want to try stop0 mode in the idle hook if it saves anything
2020-08-18T21:01:19 < Steffanx> you have the default 1ms tick?
2020-08-18T21:01:42 < zyp> qyx, how often do you need to wake up?
2020-08-18T21:01:52 < zyp> as in, how often do you actually have useful work to do?
2020-08-18T21:02:00 < jpa-> also make sure all your inputs have either high or low voltage levels, floating inputs easily add ~50µA
2020-08-18T21:02:21 < zyp> jpa-, what about analog mode?
2020-08-18T21:02:25 < jpa-> in some packages you also need to set pullups on pins that do not exist on the package but exist on the chip
2020-08-18T21:02:34 < Steffanx> Yeah, i recall they say "use analog mode!!!111" 
2020-08-18T21:02:50 < jpa-> zyp: hmm, not sure if i've tested that; but yeah, i think it is recommended on some devices
2020-08-18T21:02:56 < zyp> analog mode turns off the digital input buffers, so floating inputs shouldn't matter
2020-08-18T21:03:00 < qyx> ok, apparently it works but semihosting died
2020-08-18T21:03:23 < Steffanx> something about debugging in sleep mode?
2020-08-18T21:04:26 < zyp> qyx, for low power stuff that can sleep for seconds or more, I think it might make more sense to make a power scheduler task than to just go to sleep while idle
2020-08-18T21:05:12 < jpa-> and then you can go to standby with rtc and store just what you need in backup registers
2020-08-18T21:05:43 < mawk> how do you like it Steffanx 
2020-08-18T21:06:01 < qyx> debug works, now my lora modem is not responsive
2020-08-18T21:06:09 < qyx> meh
2020-08-18T21:06:40 < jpa-> hmm yeah, analog mode should work equally fine, but for some reason pins still default to digital input
2020-08-18T21:07:13 < Steffanx> wanna make me cry mawk?
2020-08-18T21:09:24 < jpa-> i know you cried "mawk, oh mawk" last night
2020-08-18T21:09:59 < Steffanx> did i make you cry as well when you heard that, jpa-?
2020-08-18T21:10:04 < Steffanx> you're no longer the one?
2020-08-18T21:10:29 < jpa-> i know many relationships are strained by the travel ban, but we'll get over it
2020-08-18T21:18:59 < mawk> yes Steffanx how do I do that ?
2020-08-18T21:19:11 < mawk> travel ban doubled my relationship count jpa- 
2020-08-18T21:19:14 < mawk> all hail the travel ban
2020-08-18T21:22:34 < qyx> is the clock configuration reset after waking up from stop0 mode?
2020-08-18T21:22:44 < qyx> because they say it wakes up either with HSI16 or MSI
2020-08-18T21:23:00 < qyx> depending on the STOPWUCK bit
2020-08-18T21:24:15 < jpa-> yeah, you need to re-enable PLL
2020-08-18T21:24:50 < qyx> oh so reconfigure the MSI too if I am not using default?
2020-08-18T21:25:25 < jpa-> not sure, which device?
2020-08-18T21:28:41 < qyx> scoped it, it outputs the same bitrate on usart
2020-08-18T21:28:44 < qyx> L4
2020-08-18T21:31:42 < qyx> oh I know whats the problem, it sleeps before the last character on the usart is fully transmitted
2020-08-18T21:32:45 < qyx> I didn't realise that
2020-08-18T21:33:12 < zyp> nice
2020-08-18T21:33:57 < qyx> so what, fukit, I am lazy to handle that
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2020-08-18T21:39:55 < qyx> 0.18mA running at 1MHz with WFI, I am satisfied
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2020-08-18T21:42:29 < jpa-> IIRC you need to drop swd clock rate to debug once you go below 4MHz
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2020-08-18T22:39:59 < qyx> ADR status (‘0’ – ADR is disabled, ‘1’ – ADR is disabled)
2020-08-18T22:40:00 < qyx> uhm
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2020-08-18T23:25:34 < karlp> there's some low power tickless examples in tehf reertos demos themselves iirc.
2020-08-18T23:25:38 < karlp> no need to troll the net for them
2020-08-18T23:26:28 < karlp> I used the original meaning of troll, perhaps that was confusing.
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2020-08-18T23:28:06  * qyx arduino mode
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--- Day changed Wed Aug 19 2020
2020-08-19T00:02:04 < bitmask> got these cute little motors: https://i.imgur.com/KO60cxh.png
2020-08-19T00:02:06 < bitmask> I think the small one is plenty for a spin coater
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2020-08-19T00:03:28 < jpa-> the torque ripple from cogging might pose a problem though
2020-08-19T00:03:39 < jpa-> not sure if it matters that much in a spin coater or not
2020-08-19T00:04:16 < bitmask> what do you mean by torque ripple
2020-08-19T00:04:46 < jpa-> i mean, if you turn the motor by hand, you probably feel that the magnets attract it more to certain positions
2020-08-19T00:05:03 < jpa-> same happens when spinning, it will constantly accelerate and decelerate by a small amount
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2020-08-19T00:05:41 < bitmask> oh I see whatcha mean
2020-08-19T00:07:06 < jpa-> i could see that it could potentially cause waves in the liquid surface, but maybe the spinning action will even them out
2020-08-19T00:08:06 < Cracki> how are you planning to commutate them
2020-08-19T00:09:02 < jpa-> googling doesn't seem to give much results for torque ripple in spin coaters, so perhaps it is not a problem in reality
2020-08-19T00:09:08 < karlp> emeb: this might be up your alley: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kpYb39tvteM&feature=youtu.be
2020-08-19T00:09:19 < Cracki> i don't see hall sensors, so either driving blindly or adding sensors
2020-08-19T00:10:20 < jpa-> well, driving by backemf is not driving blindly
2020-08-19T00:11:12 < bitmask> I'm using ESCs to drive them, I was either going to add a hall sensor or just use a laser tach to figure out what to drive em at for my needs
2020-08-19T00:11:37 < bitmask> i dont need crazy precise layers
2020-08-19T00:11:59 < Cracki> any particular ESC? these things accumulate features...
2020-08-19T00:12:06 < jpa-> you can also mod esc firmware to give precise speed, it does know the speed anyway
2020-08-19T00:12:50 < bitmask> I think I have a spare afro esc and I bought a few generic hobbyking escs
2020-08-19T00:13:07 < bitmask> not sure if the hobbykings can be programmed but probably
2020-08-19T00:14:21 < jpa-> https://github.com/sim-/tgy   this runs on many escs
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2020-08-19T00:18:31 < bitmask> ben from applied science actually wrote his own for his spin coater, his uses braking which I dont think im gonna do
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2020-08-19T00:24:19 < Steffanx> Whats going to be coated mr bitmask ?
2020-08-19T00:24:30 < bitmask> pcbs
2020-08-19T00:24:40 < bitmask> gonna try liquid photoresist and soldermask
2020-08-19T00:25:07 < bitmask> as well as laser transparencies, I've been having issues with my process
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2020-08-19T00:29:18 < emeb> karlp: haha - yes. seen it. :)
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2020-08-19T11:43:06 < benishor> https://imgur.com/a/VPF0e30
2020-08-19T11:43:12 < benishor> wtf does "economy model" mean?
2020-08-19T11:43:43 < benishor> not sure where the difference lies
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2020-08-19T12:07:38 < invzim> samem same, but different
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2020-08-19T13:53:08 < jpa-> benishor: based on manufacturer website, looks like half the price, a few grams heavier and has worse surface finish on the handles
2020-08-19T13:53:50 < jpa-> https://www.weller-tools.com/professional/EUR/en/Weller+Erem/Tweezers/Precision+tweezers/Fine+tips+%E2%80%93+bent/7SASL  https://www.weller-tools.com/professional/EUR/en/Weller+Erem/Tweezers/Precision+tweezers/Fine+tips+%E2%80%93+bent/7SA    and the 7SASL tips are damaged already :P
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2020-08-19T13:54:28 < benishor> fanks
2020-08-19T13:54:33 < benishor> fuck this, imma go for the expensive one
2020-08-19T13:54:35 < benishor> yolo
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2020-08-19T16:50:44 < englishman> passed first headhunter interview, second tomorrow
2020-08-19T16:51:22 < englishman> p cool position at a medical company
2020-08-19T16:51:36 < qyx> covid19 vaccine tester?
2020-08-19T16:52:23 < englishman> bigger team, bigger building, more techy shit, closer to home, much higher salary
2020-08-19T16:53:08 < jpa-> how high?
2020-08-19T16:53:27 < jpa-> will you be the richest ##stm32er, or will tectu keep that place?
2020-08-19T16:53:48 < englishman> p sure dongu has him beat still
2020-08-19T16:55:11 < day> damn he makes 7figures too? :o
2020-08-19T16:55:21 < englishman> since like 1999
2020-08-19T16:55:57 < englishman> jpa- tectu is much smarter than me so I wouldn't want to compare, I'm quite happy for him and hope he can continue to be successful
2020-08-19T16:56:59 < englishman> at the same time the cost of living here is like 1/10 lol
2020-08-19T16:57:33 < Steffanx> Yeah, tct knows how to make people work for him. Smartarse.
2020-08-19T16:58:07 < day> who is tectu?
2020-08-19T16:58:22 < day> never seen him in this channel i think :|
2020-08-19T16:58:23 < Steffanx> Mr ugfx
2020-08-19T16:58:48 < Steffanx> Tcth or tctw hes called sometimes 
2020-08-19T16:58:59 < englishman> he doesn't come around too much anymore, too successful
2020-08-19T16:59:47 < day> yeah irc is the gathering of unsuccessful fuckups (with a few exceptions) :P
2020-08-19T17:01:00 < day> we are obviously all exceptions....
2020-08-19T17:01:06 < Steffanx> Nah, he found himself a girlfriend and a pet. So he has no time anymore englishman ;)
2020-08-19T17:01:51 < englishman> hey
2020-08-19T17:02:07 < englishman> I also have a girlfriend and pets
2020-08-19T17:02:13 < englishman> and here I am
2020-08-19T17:02:19 < englishman> 10am on a workday
2020-08-19T17:02:20 < Steffanx> So first you make your company buy a fancy toy and then you quit?
2020-08-19T17:02:31 < englishman> lol jk I'm not working im going to go play golf
2020-08-19T17:02:49 < day> nice. you should be the leader of a country
2020-08-19T17:02:56 < englishman> well no Steffanx I have already transferred that project to someone for implementing into production
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2020-08-19T17:03:11 < Steffanx> :)
2020-08-19T17:05:23 < englishman> I just wanted to play with it
2020-08-19T17:06:53 -!- fenugrec [~fenugrec@104.160.220.71] has joined ##stm32
2020-08-19T17:10:11 < Steffanx> Ah 
2020-08-19T17:16:17 < qyx> do you call your chicken pets?
2020-08-19T17:16:26 < qyx> oh cats, sorry
2020-08-19T17:16:38 < englishman> heh can't do that
2020-08-19T17:16:56 < englishman> you can't give them names unless it's things like: sandwich, bbq
2020-08-19T17:17:46 < t4nk_freenode> hey, std, come over here for a minute, will ya?
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2020-08-19T17:47:14 < day> of all our pets only the first dog really ended up getting a name 
2020-08-19T17:47:39 < day> we had a cat for 20 years that never got one
2020-08-19T17:49:12 < karlp> I think I'm only the richest because our currency units are the smallest?
2020-08-19T17:49:24 < karlp> I mean, yes, I make millions per year.... but...
2020-08-19T17:49:30 < day> :D
2020-08-19T17:49:46 < karlp> I dind't actually know anyone thought I was remotely richest here anyway.
2020-08-19T17:50:36 < day> you are the one that lives on some island right?
2020-08-19T17:54:55 < karlp> the best island!
2020-08-19T17:55:12 < karlp> we even spell it just like that
2020-08-19T18:06:15 < day> i dont remember which one it was... easter islands? :D
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2020-08-19T19:22:35 < dongs> fucking lunix i2c GARBAGE
2020-08-19T19:22:42 < dongs> fuck the docs on that shit too
2020-08-19T19:22:59 < dongs> https://www.kernel.org/doc/Documentation/i2c/dev-interface like waht the actual fuck is this?i
2020-08-19T19:23:05 < dongs> it doesnt acutalyl fucking explain ANYTHING
2020-08-19T19:23:14 < dongs> its like "here's some shit, now fuck off"
2020-08-19T19:23:16 -!- qyx [~qyx@gw2.krtko.org] has joined ##stm32
2020-08-19T19:23:20 < dongs> typical lunix faggotry
2020-08-19T19:23:36 < qyx> which one
2020-08-19T19:23:42 < dongs> you just missed it
2020-08-19T19:23:44 < dongs> check logs
2020-08-19T19:23:46 < dongs> i blogged up a storm
2020-08-19T19:24:42 < PaulFertser> What specifically is omitted? It's not like concept of using IOCTLs is unique to Linux.
2020-08-19T19:31:46 -!- markus-k [~markus@server01.comtime-it.eu] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer]
2020-08-19T19:35:33 < dongs> anyway so I do I2C_RDWR with ONE message, which is WRITE ONLY. transmitting subaddr + data. when I am fucking checking I2C traffic, it does a READ followed by WRITE of my shit.
2020-08-19T19:35:36 < dongs> FUCKING. WHY.
2020-08-19T19:35:50 < dongs> fucking retarded lunix
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2020-08-19T19:37:14 < karlp> RDWR sonds like ReaD WRite to me.
2020-08-19T19:37:26 < dongs> no shit, thats the only fucking thing aavailable tho
2020-08-19T19:37:27 < karlp> but no clue, fuck using C to speak to ioctls by hand
2020-08-19T19:37:30 < dongs> there's no fucking WR
2020-08-19T19:37:43 < dongs> yeah this was working fine but the idiots decided to move I2C to fucking soc
2020-08-19T19:37:47 < dongs> instead of connected to mcu
2020-08-19T19:37:50 < dongs> because ~reasons~
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2020-08-19T19:44:36 < karlp> well, I'm lookinga t similar, so I can just _drop_ teh mcu :)
2020-08-19T19:45:27 < dongs> just run all your shit on allwhiner openDICKS core
2020-08-19T19:46:07 < karlp> fuck that, that soundsd even worse
2020-08-19T19:50:07 < karlp> hrm, curl a url gives me the correct line endings,
2020-08-19T19:50:14 < karlp> opening in a browser wraps it all.
2020-08-19T19:51:24 < dongs> chrome has become so dumb its not even funny
2020-08-19T19:51:41 < dongs> like, they removed encoding menu because who would ever want to select a non-autodetected encoding right?
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2020-08-19T19:52:00 < dongs> shit's just a fucking window to google's data stealing universe
2020-08-19T19:52:25 < dongs> now windows chrome comes with fucking antimalware and scans your entire system looking for "potentially unwanted" shit
2020-08-19T19:52:33 < dongs> who the fuck decides what's "unwanted"
2020-08-19T19:52:34 < dongs> google?
2020-08-19T19:52:37 < dongs> fuckwitrs.
2020-08-19T19:55:28 < karlp> colleague's chrome is detecting passwords that are known to be compromised
2020-08-19T19:55:42 < karlp> enters "root" on something and he gets a popup, "this password is bad and should be changted!"
2020-08-19T19:55:53 < karlp> "we know because we sent it to us and checked for you!"
2020-08-19T19:56:56 < dongs> lulz
2020-08-19T19:56:58 < dongs> right??
2020-08-19T19:57:32 < dongs> Find harmful software
2020-08-19T19:57:32 < dongs> Chrome can find harmful software on your computer and remove it
2020-08-19T19:58:00 < dongs> "Report details to Google about harmful software, system settings, and processes that were found on your c omputer during this cleanup"
2020-08-19T20:06:29 < karlp> bleh, set content type to text/plain, curl now shows that
2020-08-19T20:06:37 < karlp> browser now offers me application/octet-stream to download
2020-08-19T20:06:39 < karlp> silly shit
2020-08-19T20:06:47 < karlp> (more google software actually)
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2020-08-19T20:47:48 < Cracki> why would you open it as WR only? it's RDWR so you can read and write, but what you're doing is decided by the read/write calls that come after opening... I looked at that file for 10 seconds so I might be missing something
2020-08-19T20:48:59 < Cracki> as for google chrome rifling through people's shit, they copied that from "play protect" which is android's own official virus scanner
2020-08-19T21:08:15 < Steffanx> lol, yeah who the fuck uses that?
2020-08-19T21:08:21 < Steffanx> i wouldnt even know where to find that option
2020-08-19T21:08:29 < Steffanx> @ encoding stuff
2020-08-19T21:08:47 < Steffanx> and scroll up lol :P
2020-08-19T21:26:21 < Cracki> oh funky i2c traffic
2020-08-19T21:45:54 < qyx> oh i2c
2020-08-19T21:46:38 < qyx> https://www.gigastore.sk/sub/gigastore.sk/shop/product/resized/r11e-lora8-mini-pcie-lora-863-870-mhz-u.fl-20-dbm-155376.thumb_380x350.jpg.webp?t=1597777676
2020-08-19T21:46:41 < qyx> such 3D
2020-08-19T21:47:04 < qyx> mikrotiks LoRa, 60e incl VAT
2020-08-19T21:47:11 < qyx> hopefully it works
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2020-08-19T22:47:53 < qyx> such energy https://bin.jvnv.net/file/PtzXR.JPG
2020-08-19T22:49:06 < Steffanx> heh yeah.
2020-08-19T22:49:12 < jpa-> no energy without R8
2020-08-19T22:49:28 < qyx> thats for balancing only
2020-08-19T22:49:53 < qyx> I need to solder the second one somehow
2020-08-19T22:50:29 < Steffanx> How long do you expect it to be run on that qyx?
2020-08-19T22:50:47 < qyx> ~2 days
2020-08-19T22:50:59 < qyx> incl. leakage
2020-08-19T22:51:23 < qyx> they will be charged with 4 BPW34s
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2020-08-19T22:54:46 < Steffanx> heh really?
2020-08-19T23:01:51 < qyx> you are asking like I should know
2020-08-19T23:03:03 < qyx> https://bin.jvnv.net/file/wVuRI.JPG
2020-08-19T23:08:32 < qyx> if I connect two 8F caps in series, do I get 4F only at twice the voltage?
2020-08-19T23:15:59 < Cracki> no you get 4F, regardless of voltage. given fixed farads, you get varying coulombs for a varying voltage.
2020-08-19T23:17:06 < Cracki> but yes you can expect that you can give each its voltage rating, which adds
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2020-08-19T23:27:12 < zyp> by «twice the voltage» I assume he meant «twice the voltage rating»
2020-08-19T23:28:37 < zyp> hmm
2020-08-19T23:28:42 < Cracki> to meaning like "but at twice the voltage"?
2020-08-19T23:29:08 < zyp> caps in series: half the capacitance, double the voltage rating
2020-08-19T23:29:13 < Cracki> eh. moses, explain your tablets. we aren't interpreting.
2020-08-19T23:29:24 < zyp> so anyway
2020-08-19T23:30:07 < zyp> I know half the capacitance is correct, but I'm wondering why and my head is not working enough at the moment to figure it out
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2020-08-19T23:30:23 < Cracki> https://physics.stackexchange.com/questions/487180/intuitively-why-does-putting-capacitors-in-series-decrease-the-equivalent-capac/487270
2020-08-19T23:30:46 < Cracki> I remembered that from physics class but I have a kink in my intuition I'm working through
2020-08-19T23:30:55 < zyp> ah
2020-08-19T23:31:08 < zyp> «I assume you know that the larger the capacitor plates are, the greater the capacitance, all other things being equal. Also I assume you know the greater the separation of the plates (the thicker the dielectric between the plates) the less the capacitance all other things being equal.»
2020-08-19T23:31:13 < zyp> that tells me everything
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2020-08-19T23:31:28 < zyp> caps in series acts as one cap with twice the dielectric thickness
2020-08-19T23:31:59 < Cracki> if I had two 1F caps, and I charged each at 1V, I'd have 1C in each, so I'd have 2C in total, and if I series'd them, I'd have 2C at 2V, so I'd think the combination is 1F again
2020-08-19T23:32:56 < specing> you'd have 1V 2C in parallel and 2V 1C in series
2020-08-19T23:33:07 < Cracki> why 1C in series?
2020-08-19T23:33:19 < Cracki> I didn't change the charge in either, did I?
2020-08-19T23:33:19 < PaulFertser> qyx: in any case you shouldn't assume twice the voltage rating because in fact their capacitance will differ and so one would be getting more voltage than the other.
2020-08-19T23:33:35 < qyx> PaulFertser: no, theres a balancing circuit
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2020-08-19T23:33:38 < specing> Cracki: 1C is 1As, yes?
2020-08-19T23:33:48 < Cracki> I suppose. where does this lead
2020-08-19T23:34:03 < specing> so two 1V capacitors can provide 1 ampere for 1 second at 2V
2020-08-19T23:34:16 < specing> or they can provide 1 ampere for 2 seconds at 1V (in parallel)
2020-08-19T23:34:21 < Cracki> uh
2020-08-19T23:34:25 < qyx> zyp: I am curious because adding battery cells in series gives you the same Ah rating with double the voltage
2020-08-19T23:34:49 < Cracki> I'll think about what a coulomb is
2020-08-19T23:35:06 < qyx> but Ah is probably not the right unit to calculate with
2020-08-19T23:35:07 < specing> a coulumb is like Ah, just *3600
2020-08-19T23:35:23 < specing> qyx: why not, it's just a unit that is too big for capacitors
2020-08-19T23:35:29 < Cracki> doesn't help with my faulty intuition
2020-08-19T23:35:29 < specing> 1 mAh = 3.6C
2020-08-19T23:35:31 < qyx> so whats the result then
2020-08-19T23:35:33 < zyp> yeah, what specing says makes sense
2020-08-19T23:35:59 < qyx> I would say connecting two 8F 2V8 caps in series I get a single 8F cap at 5V6
2020-08-19T23:36:15 < qyx> but thats not correct it seems
2020-08-19T23:36:28 < zyp> qyx, that's because F = C/V
2020-08-19T23:36:48 < Cracki> ah, battery analogy. so "same Ah rating" -> same coulomb rating, double the voltage, which means... half the capacitance (F = C/V)
2020-08-19T23:37:08 < zyp> by connecting two 22.4C 2V8 caps in series you get a single 22.4C cap at 5V6
2020-08-19T23:37:23 < qyx> oh makes sense
2020-08-19T23:37:32 < qyx> but only half the F, because the voltage doubled
2020-08-19T23:38:10 < qyx> meh, high school physics
2020-08-19T23:42:59 < zyp> had wife's car to the biennial inspection the other day, one of the remarks were that one of the fog lights were a bit high
2020-08-19T23:43:30 < zyp> https://bin.jvnv.net/file/sKjgi.jpg <- I don't see it, looks pretty even to me, and also pretty fucking impossible to tell
2020-08-19T23:45:33 < zyp> pretty much just looks like they throw light everywhere
2020-08-19T23:45:57 < zyp> https://bin.jvnv.net/file/YBRJU.jpg <- unlike the main lights that are well defined (and correctly adjusted)
2020-08-19T23:50:43 < Cracki> how do they measure that. it looks very diffuse
2020-08-19T23:50:53 < zyp> exactly
2020-08-19T23:51:29 < Cracki> maybe they use an aperture or lens ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
2020-08-19T23:51:55 < zyp> I mean, they obviously have a testing instrument to measure that
2020-08-19T23:52:21 < Cracki> yes but how would it work, or how to google for that
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2020-08-19T23:53:04 < zyp> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Headlight_tester
2020-08-19T23:53:15 < Cracki> all the diagrams I see assume a sharp cone
2020-08-19T23:53:32 < qyx> car headlight tester
2020-08-19T23:54:34 < qyx> offtopic, do you write 868 MHz or 868MHz?
2020-08-19T23:54:44 < zyp> yes
2020-08-19T23:54:56 < Cracki> former is standard
2020-08-19T23:55:01 < Cracki> see channel rules
2020-08-19T23:55:20 < zyp> space or not varies, like every other unit
2020-08-19T23:55:36 < Cracki> nospace on aliex so it becomes one word, better to search for
2020-08-19T23:56:18 < Steffanx> Damn didn't you read the channel rules qyx?
2020-08-19T23:57:00 < qyx> what
2020-08-19T23:57:52 < Steffanx> https://physics.nist.gov/cuu/Units/checklist.html
2020-08-19T23:58:02 < qyx> noice
2020-08-19T23:59:03 < Cracki> they're guidelines, which means if you violate them, you will be hanged
2020-08-19T23:59:11 < Cracki> same as all the codes of conduct
--- Day changed Thu Aug 20 2020
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2020-08-20T00:30:24 < Cracki> pcb design program with simcity sounds
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2020-08-20T00:37:45 < Steffanx> Why just sounds? I want to see cars move around. And the occasional earth quake that messes up something randomly 
2020-08-20T00:42:02 < zyp> https://bin.jvnv.net/file/vyr9L.jpg <- moved the car closer to the wall, starting to make more sense now
2020-08-20T00:42:43 < zyp> ground is not level there though, and I need a suitable screwdriver for adjusting it, so I'll revisit it tomorrow
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2020-08-20T02:40:28 < karlp> stupid emulated s390 doens't use all my cpus :|
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2020-08-20T08:13:39 < jadew`> interesting difference between the 34410A and 34465A (the new keysight meters): "Base specifications for the 34465A for the DC voltage and resistance functions are specified for Tcal l ± 2 °C, whereas the specifications on the 34410A and 34411A are specified for Tcal ± 5 °C."
2020-08-20T08:14:04 < jadew`> does that mean that the old models are 2.5 times more stable with temperature?
2020-08-20T08:14:38 < jadew`> if that's true, that's a huge plus for the old models
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2020-08-20T08:28:23 < jpa-> jadew`: are the specs otherwise the same?
2020-08-20T08:28:47 < jadew`> pretty much, very small differences
2020-08-20T08:29:43 < jadew`> I think the 65A has more ranges for current tho
2020-08-20T08:30:03 < jadew`> and the 34410A is faster in standard configuration
2020-08-20T08:30:21 < jpa-> the cheaper 34461 etc. look to be +- 5°C
2020-08-20T08:31:00 < jpa-> and the temperature coefficient of 34465A is smaller than 34461
2020-08-20T08:31:17 < jadew`> are the specs the same?
2020-08-20T08:32:39 < jpa-> mostly
2020-08-20T08:33:40 < jpa-> the 34470A is again +-5°C, which is a bit strange
2020-08-20T08:33:46 < jpa-> it being more accurate also
2020-08-20T08:39:42 < jadew`> 65 seems to be worse than 61 in this regard
2020-08-20T08:40:02 < jadew`> their specifications in regards to temperature are the same
2020-08-20T08:40:19 < jadew`> but the temperature range is different
2020-08-20T08:44:18 < jadew`> was considering upgrading, but I'm not so sure it's an upgrade anymore
2020-08-20T08:44:31 < jadew`> also... the boot up time
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2020-08-20T09:24:17 < jadew`> ffs.. all I wanted was to install the driver for a PCI-GPIB card and NI's shit is downloading the whole internet
2020-08-20T09:25:04 < jadew`> it's installing silverlight
2020-08-20T10:04:50 < Steffanx> NI. DONT DO IT
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2020-08-20T10:11:45 < Steffanx> NI stuff even messes with "basic"  windows functions. Like how a always running background service will request a increased timer resolution. Whyyy?
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2020-08-20T11:32:27 < dongs> more like Nigger Instruments amirite?
2020-08-20T11:32:35 < dongs> yeah the fucking CANCER that is VISA drivers and shit, god damn
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2020-08-20T11:32:53 < dongs> get ready to install several copies of java runtime, obsolete tools, just trash everywehre
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2020-08-20T11:56:29 < zyp> haha
2020-08-20T12:02:16 < mawk> Steffanx: http://binarypuzzle.com/index.php
2020-08-20T12:02:18 < mawk> do this
2020-08-20T12:02:20 < mawk> quickly
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2020-08-20T12:07:08 < zyp> binary sudoku?
2020-08-20T12:07:31 < zyp> looks fun
2020-08-20T12:10:19 < Steffanx> Some do have to work mawk.
2020-08-20T12:10:38 < mawk> nonsense Steffanx 
2020-08-20T12:11:39 < benishor> lucky me, I'm using linux-gpib
2020-08-20T12:15:06 < benishor> damn, I ended up buying 100 eur worth of tweezers 
2020-08-20T12:15:23 < Steffanx> Moneyed westerner 
2020-08-20T12:15:28 < benishor> I figured they'll last for a couple of years
2020-08-20T12:15:49 < benishor> no westerner here, i'm from the same land of dracula jadew` is from
2020-08-20T12:15:49 < Steffanx> Do they even use eurobucks in .ro?
2020-08-20T12:15:58 < benishor> not yet, we do trade them ofc
2020-08-20T12:16:22 < Steffanx> Not yet. As in not ever
2020-08-20T12:16:22 < benishor> but it's not the official currency
2020-08-20T12:16:27 < Steffanx> Lol
2020-08-20T12:16:32 < day> just do it like the kosovo
2020-08-20T12:16:37 < Steffanx> I wont agree to that
2020-08-20T12:16:38 < benishor> we're supposed to get there somewhere around 2024 I think
2020-08-20T12:16:53 < benishor> Steffanx: you won't agree to what exactly?
2020-08-20T12:17:07 < Steffanx> .ro going eurobucks
2020-08-20T12:17:11 < benishor> why not?
2020-08-20T12:17:37 < Steffanx> East-europe should even be allowed in .eu
2020-08-20T12:17:48 < Steffanx> Lol just kidding. Just ignore me :P
2020-08-20T12:17:50 < benishor> forgot a *not* there? :D
2020-08-20T12:17:53 < day> should?
2020-08-20T12:17:55 < day> :p
2020-08-20T12:17:55 < jadew`> it doesn't make sense for us to switch to the euro, when the RON is so strong
2020-08-20T12:18:01 < jadew`> 1 RON = 9 EUR
2020-08-20T12:18:13 < benishor> that's the power of the lion to you
2020-08-20T12:18:22 < jadew`> it would be like joining a third world country
2020-08-20T12:18:34 < benishor> funny how we got the currency named after an animal who never roamed these areas
2020-08-20T12:18:42 < jadew`> indeed
2020-08-20T12:18:59 < jadew`> dongs, I was able to opt out of VISA
2020-08-20T12:19:10 < dongs> lucky
2020-08-20T12:19:12 < jadew`> but I ended up with the labview runtime
2020-08-20T12:19:20 < benishor> and I turned down google
2020-08-20T12:19:22 < dongs> thats 500 megs right there
2020-08-20T12:19:27 < dongs> if not more
2020-08-20T12:19:30 < benishor> so that's saying a lot about how cool we romanians are
2020-08-20T12:19:40 < day> jadew`: wiki says 1 ron = 0.21 eur :?
2020-08-20T12:19:50 < Steffanx> Lol yes. Shouldnt. benishor 
2020-08-20T12:20:10 < jadew`> day, probably correct, I was just trolling
2020-08-20T12:20:14 < day> ah ok
2020-08-20T12:20:22 < Steffanx> Damn it. I always write would or should when i was trying to write wouldn't or shouldn't 
2020-08-20T12:20:33 < benishor> that should make it easy for your wife
2020-08-20T12:20:51 < Steffanx> Maybe
2020-08-20T12:22:16 < benishor> so, back to bragging. I got erem 7sa, erem e3csa and and ideal-tek SM117.SA.1.ITU
2020-08-20T12:23:01 < benishor> I decided to go berserk when my cheap chinese "antimagnetic, high precision, stainless steel" got the tips fucked
2020-08-20T12:23:21 < jadew`> interesting choices, did you get them yet?
2020-08-20T12:23:31 < benishor> not yet, couple more days
2020-08-20T12:23:54 < benishor> I had some hard time ordering them as well, until I ran into distrelec
2020-08-20T12:23:59 < benishor> thank google for that
2020-08-20T12:24:40 < benishor> I based my choices partly on the tweezers review I linked a while ago from youtube
2020-08-20T12:24:45 < jadew`> I wasn't aware of them
2020-08-20T12:24:46 < benishor> and on your research
2020-08-20T12:24:49 < jadew`> what problems did you have ordering?
2020-08-20T12:25:09 < benishor> not ordering per se but finding a place to order from other than amazon
2020-08-20T12:25:20 < jadew`> farnell didn't have them?
2020-08-20T12:25:20 < benishor> and I wanted something based in eu
2020-08-20T12:25:33 < benishor> not the whole selection
2020-08-20T12:25:41 < benishor> mouser didn't either
2020-08-20T12:25:45 < benishor> tme had one
2020-08-20T12:27:18 < jadew`> where is distrelec shipping from?
2020-08-20T12:27:50 < jadew`> they seem to have a lot of stuff in stock - hard to believe they're romanian
2020-08-20T12:28:02 < benishor> let me check
2020-08-20T12:28:09 < benishor> they are not romanian
2020-08-20T12:28:18 < benishor> but they do have a romanian version of their site
2020-08-20T12:28:26 < jadew`> ah
2020-08-20T12:28:43 < benishor> shipped from "'S-Hertogenbosch, Netherlands"
2020-08-20T12:28:55 < benishor> so yey for eu
2020-08-20T12:29:29 < jadew`> they're from Austria I think
2020-08-20T12:29:41 < benishor> yeah, that's what the mails say
2020-08-20T12:29:53 < benishor> but the shipment came from the netherlands
2020-08-20T12:30:13 < jadew`> well, it's good to know about it, thanks
2020-08-20T12:30:21 < jadew`> they seem to have a pretty good selection of RF connectors
2020-08-20T12:33:47 < benishor> yeah, they have a good selection of everything
2020-08-20T12:33:56 < benishor> I didn't know about it either, but mighty google helped
2020-08-20T12:34:09 < benishor> I want to get for instance a try square, a specific type
2020-08-20T12:34:21 < benishor> bahco 9045-B
2020-08-20T12:34:32 < benishor> and I just hate not being able to find it on the regular channels
2020-08-20T12:34:48 < benishor> although it's supposed to be swedish, thus european
2020-08-20T12:35:49 < jadew`> why that specific one?
2020-08-20T12:39:22 < benishor> just fell in love with it
2020-08-20T12:39:34 < benishor> seen it in some random youtube maker video
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2020-08-20T13:06:36 < Mangy_Dog> OMFG https://www.aliexpress.com/item/4001275940469.html I finally bit the bullet and got one... no fuckign way this is 5x magnification, more than 1.5x In fact just messured it, it is 1.5x
2020-08-20T13:07:50 < benishor> german product
2020-08-20T13:07:51 < benishor> !!!1
2020-08-20T13:08:02 < benishor> and you also can has 10 shades so why is you complaining?
2020-08-20T13:08:22 < benishor> if you want more magnification why don't you buy a proper microscope? either that or get some glasses
2020-08-20T13:08:30 < benishor> :D
2020-08-20T13:09:09 < Mangy_Dog> complianing as its not the x5 magnification i was lead to believe? 
2020-08-20T13:19:10 < zyp> mawk, you're welcome: https://bin.jvnv.net/file/SXuhy.png
2020-08-20T13:20:27 < zyp> that «very hard» sounds a bit overstated, I've never done one of these before and it was easier than a typical sudoku 
2020-08-20T13:26:53 < karlp> eh, I got stuck and gave up, but that was before I read the tips page
2020-08-20T13:36:28 < zyp> I didn't read any tips, just the rules summary on the side
2020-08-20T13:37:24 < karlp> congratulations?
2020-08-20T13:37:35 < zyp> thanks :)
2020-08-20T13:39:39 < zyp> I just started out with the «No more than two similar numbers below or next to each other are allowed.», which means that any 11 and 00 patterns turn into 0110 and 1001 respectively, also 1 1 and 0 0 turn into 101 and 010
2020-08-20T13:40:33 < dongs> - [5X Magnification] The color temperature of the LED light can be adjusted in 3 levels, and the brightness can be adjusted in 11 levels, which can meet different working environments. Aluminum alloy shell has good heat dissipation and durability.
2020-08-20T13:40:44 < dongs> i love how 5x magnification title has nothing to do with the rest of hte text
2020-08-20T13:40:45 < karlp> yeah, I got stuck there until I read the bits about all rows must be unique, and each row must have balanced zeros and ones
2020-08-20T13:40:49 < zyp> once I ran out of those I started counting the number of ones in each col/row and looked at what possible patterns I had to make that six
2020-08-20T13:41:08 < karlp> but i'd alrady gotten stuck and given up 
2020-08-20T13:41:16 < karlp> I wasn't going to experiment with options
2020-08-20T13:41:39 < zyp> oh, I missed the part where rows/cols had to be unique
2020-08-20T13:41:46 < zyp> that didn't seem to matter
2020-08-20T13:42:13 < zyp> at least this board had one unambiguous solution without that part
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2020-08-20T13:45:27 < onio> Hi does anyone here use STM32CubeProgrammer for programming the STM32H7B3 micro-controller
2020-08-20T13:46:01 < zyp> onio, I don't, but what's your actual question?
2020-08-20T13:46:40 < mawk> https://youtu.be/m31r6sFgmMg
2020-08-20T13:46:46 < mawk> listen to this Steffanx 
2020-08-20T13:47:09 < zyp> mawk, why are you being so mean to Steffanx today?
2020-08-20T13:47:25 < mawk> well played for the game zyp 
2020-08-20T13:47:29 < onio> I am trying to use the secure boot feature of this chip but when I send the loader code to it works until I power cycle the board
2020-08-20T13:47:37 < mawk> some "very hard" are actually hard, or rather long
2020-08-20T13:47:47 < karlp> well, I get to here: https://bin.jvnv.net/file/QCJUb.png and there's no more moves that aren't guess, and keep trying
2020-08-20T13:47:50 < mawk> especially the big ones, you need to reason with like 2 moves in advance
2020-08-20T13:47:59 < mawk> lol zyp it's genuine music I listen to
2020-08-20T13:48:18 < zyp> karlp, yes there are, give me a moment to find it :)
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2020-08-20T13:50:06 < mawk> you can do something on the first line
2020-08-20T13:50:07 < zyp> karlp, top row, you've got 1___1 and two ones to fit, 11101 and 10111 are invalid, so you're left with 11011
2020-08-20T13:51:03 < karlp> ah, that's a method I hadn't considered
2020-08-20T13:55:38 < karlp> eh, didn't get me further enough. time to do something more useful
2020-08-20T13:55:45 < zyp> :)
2020-08-20T13:56:17 < Steffanx> Mawk is just a french frog, cant change that zyp
2020-08-20T13:56:31 < mawk> :(
2020-08-20T13:56:40 < zyp> I don't got anything useful to do at the moment so I guess I'll do a 14x14 as well :p
2020-08-20T13:56:53 < mawk> good choice
2020-08-20T13:56:59 < Steffanx> What about the garden zyp?
2020-08-20T13:57:04 < zyp> or more like I don't feel like doing anything of the useful things I could do
2020-08-20T13:57:27 < Steffanx> I have been like that all day long.
2020-08-20T13:58:01 < Steffanx> Ive got a shitload of work to do, but... there is a tiny problem in everyone of them that i dont feel like solving today
2020-08-20T13:58:21 < Steffanx> Shitty hardware, no hardware at all. Meh
2020-08-20T13:58:27 < karlp> wanna work out this one for me? https://github.com/warmcat/libwebsockets/issues/2008
2020-08-20T13:58:56 < Steffanx> Websockets. Hm
2020-08-20T14:01:49 < zyp> karlp, sounds like it'd be fun to debug, but annoying to reproduce
2020-08-20T14:04:31 < zyp> hmm, I wonder where the carambola board I had went
2020-08-20T14:05:11 < zyp> I don't recall whether I bought it or $oldjob did
2020-08-20T14:06:23 < zyp> looks like I did, so I probably have it in a box somewhere
2020-08-20T14:07:49 < mawk> did you listen to my clowncore song Steffanx ?
2020-08-20T14:11:48 < mawk> you better have
2020-08-20T14:12:02 < mawk> the prophets are with me, if you don't do as I say you go to hell for eternal punishment
2020-08-20T14:14:13 < karlp> it was horrible
2020-08-20T14:17:02 < Steffanx> I didnt open it
2020-08-20T14:17:59 < mawk> I'm very disappointed in you
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2020-08-20T14:37:41 < Steffanx> Good
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2020-08-20T18:55:53 < R2COM> dongs why is microsoft outlook shits itself every 10 minutes
2020-08-20T18:56:03 < R2COM> anything microsoft is a garbage
2020-08-20T18:57:08 < R2COM> what is the best email client
2020-08-20T18:59:35 < R2COM> after several app kill sessions and restart i managed to send something
2020-08-20T18:59:36 < R2COM> wow
2020-08-20T18:59:39 < R2COM> this is insane
2020-08-20T19:00:04 < R2COM> not sure if its the server thing but im pretty sure app is bad too since it freezes etc
2020-08-20T19:00:15 < R2COM> win10/M$ is a bloatware
2020-08-20T19:01:02 < zyp> gmail
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2020-08-20T19:09:55 < Steffanx> Outlook works fine. Pebkac.
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2020-08-20T19:12:50 < fenugrec> the opposite of bloat would be Pine. Pretty sure it'd run on a 286
2020-08-20T19:13:36 < Steffanx> Yay. 
2020-08-20T19:13:41 < karlp> doesn't really do the same thing as otulook though
2020-08-20T19:13:50 < karlp> haveðt used pine since my email address was a number
2020-08-20T19:14:06 < Steffanx> Youre old ;)
2020-08-20T19:15:05 < karlp> anyone who suggests pine is old :)
2020-08-20T19:15:15 < fenugrec> fuuuuu
2020-08-20T19:16:05 < Steffanx> It is known 
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2020-08-20T19:32:24 < emeb> if I never used pine does that mean I'm not old?
2020-08-20T19:35:15 < karlp> good dodge ;)
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2020-08-20T19:41:12 < Steffanx> You were already oldskool before the hipsters started using Pine, emeb
2020-08-20T19:47:35  * emeb kicks it oldskool
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2020-08-20T20:19:23 < PaulFertser> Remember xbiff?
2020-08-20T20:20:30 < Steffanx> nein
2020-08-20T20:22:13 < GenTooMan> is Pine still being maintained even?
2020-08-20T20:22:23 < Steffanx> no
2020-08-20T20:22:43 < Steffanx> Alpine is what's hot these days
2020-08-20T20:23:24 < PaulFertser> And for actually reading and writing e-mails the program called "mailx" can be used. It has advanced interactive features.
2020-08-20T20:24:02 < PaulFertser> Part of POSIX too.
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2020-08-20T20:40:15 < karlp> GenTooMan: apparently pine was the wrong sort of free....
2020-08-20T20:40:28 < karlp> thogh alpine has  horrible name collision with a slightly more prominent project these days...
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2020-08-20T20:52:06 < GenTooMan> Washington university in saint louis (of Wu Archive fame) was the originator of Pine. Likely the license reflected the Uni or developer at the Uni.
2020-08-20T20:52:43 < GenTooMan> in any case I'm curious if alpine is even usable (more or less). It seems to also include the Pico editor.
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2020-08-20T21:35:43 < Steffanx> whops
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2020-08-20T21:53:01 < antto> teh google browz0r acts as an antivirus now? huh
2020-08-20T21:53:52 < antto> everytime i think that google can't do anything worse and then.. boom
2020-08-20T21:54:26 < Steffanx> pooooor antto, whats up with the chrome?
2020-08-20T21:54:58 < antto> i don't know, i scrolled up and saw senpai vomitting "love" for it ;P~
2020-08-20T21:58:27 < antto> mv GenTooMan DebianMan
2020-08-20T21:58:29  * antto runs
2020-08-20T21:58:39 < Cracki> when will chrome grow an init system
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2020-08-20T22:09:13 < qyx> when systemd dies
2020-08-20T22:11:29 < GenTooMan> I'll highlight you are work antto to scare your cat if you keep that up ;)
2020-08-20T22:12:21 < Cracki> GNU Hurd, Latest release: 0.9 / 18 December 2016
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2020-08-20T22:25:25 < upgrdman> nice tattoo https://www.reddit.com/r/WTF/comments/idaf0p/drunk_tat_removal/
2020-08-20T22:26:08 < Cracki> lol
2020-08-20T22:26:19 < Cracki> the moaning
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2020-08-20T22:27:38 < Cracki> probably a repeat customer
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2020-08-20T23:33:26 < Steffanx> "Multiple studio lights, moaning, DSLR is used for filming whole process... Are you sure this isn’t some fetish?" busted upgrdman
2020-08-20T23:40:46 < upgrdman> lol
2020-08-20T23:40:58 < upgrdman> ya one of the commenters said she'd a pornstar
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--- Day changed Fri Aug 21 2020
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2020-08-21T00:04:11 < antto> https://i.imgur.com/iJasjDQ.mp4
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2020-08-21T00:11:34 < Cracki> :D
2020-08-21T00:12:12 < antto> https://i.imgur.com/2H3K2aM.mp4
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2020-08-21T00:21:19 < Steffanx> Sleep well antto 
2020-08-21T00:21:28 < antto> not yet
2020-08-21T00:21:44 < Steffanx> Hmm. This is not your pre-sleep ritual?
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2020-08-21T00:24:44 < antto> a wat
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2020-08-21T00:34:06 < Cracki> wait, were you hungarian or am I confused
2020-08-21T00:34:59 < antto> me?
2020-08-21T00:35:03 < Cracki> they served us some kind of sausage/salami that tasted like paprika but not just that. I've been trying to find that type of sausage. it might have been hungarian kolbasz. it's certainly not spanish chorizo, that's just disgusting.
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2020-08-21T00:35:38 < antto> .bg haz all kinds of that
2020-08-21T00:35:47 < Cracki> oh right
2020-08-21T00:36:01 < antto> but i don't think i've talked about it
2020-08-21T00:36:02 < Cracki> I'll have to check out bulgarian cuisine too then
2020-08-21T00:38:42 < Cracki> hmmm it must have been hungarian. goulash is a hungarian thing. I never perceived it as such because it was everywhere when I grew up
2020-08-21T00:41:19 < antto> do you know the brand? was it written in latin or cyrillic? ;P~
2020-08-21T00:44:16 < Cracki> it was on a plate. I will be asking them the next time they serve it, which can be a few months.
2020-08-21T00:44:44 < antto> was it milled?
2020-08-21T00:45:35 < Cracki> it was shortish pieces cut from the whole length, and the sausage was round and about as thick as a thumb
2020-08-21T00:45:54 < Cracki> I'll try to acquire those, starting with #5, which sounds and looks most similar https://www.tasteatlas.com/most-popular-sausages-and-salamis-in-hungary
2020-08-21T00:47:19 < Cracki> oh wait, #1, the last one
2020-08-21T00:47:33 < Cracki> fuckers turned the page upside down
2020-08-21T00:47:53 < antto> we got similar stuff
2020-08-21T01:00:28 < Cracki> hahahaha talky-brain people are rarted. https://www.abc.net.au/news/2020-02-07/inner-monologue-mental-health-not-everyone-talks-to-themself/11931410
2020-08-21T01:00:43 < Cracki> "Second, if inner speech is important for a wide range of psychological functions, how is it that people are able to survive without it?"
2020-08-21T01:01:31 < Cracki> mooing and ruminating are improtant for a wide range of cow functions. how is it that cows are able to survive without it?
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2020-08-21T01:02:56 < Cracki> consider that some aren't cattle
2020-08-21T01:04:26 < Cracki> their brains must be so shallow that nothing goes on in there that is more abstract than sensory input
2020-08-21T01:10:10 < Cracki> https://www.psychologytoday.com/us/blog/pristine-inner-experience/201110/not-everyone-conducts-inner-speech
2020-08-21T01:10:14 < Cracki> closer to the actual study
2020-08-21T01:10:34 < Cracki> that linguist claims "When we say "dog," a little picture of that word flashes through our minds, Sesame Street-style. Imagine saying "dog" and only thinking of a canine, but not thinking of the written word"
2020-08-21T01:10:37 < Cracki> he's insane.
2020-08-21T01:10:50 < Cracki> yeah I can go along with that statement
2020-08-21T01:11:42 < Cracki> grade school teaches vocalization while reading. that sticks, even when you aren't actually reading out loud. it's "subvocalization".
2020-08-21T01:11:48 < Cracki> that's a handicap.
2020-08-21T01:13:09 < Cracki> also is a speed bump to reading
2020-08-21T01:15:14 < Cracki> linguist thinks in words, news at 11
2020-08-21T01:15:37 < Cracki> if he actually sees the words, maybe he should have become a writer or librarian
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2020-08-21T01:16:26 < Cracki> go on twadder, look for "I hear voices". certain demographics think that's absolutely normal, even when they hear multiple voices telling them to do unspeakable things (such as loot, riot, murder, torture animals)
2020-08-21T01:16:57 < Cracki> NPCs are the ones that have a literal text script running in their heads
2020-08-21T01:17:13 < Cracki> the game engine renders their "thoughts" as thought bubbles with words in them
2020-08-21T01:20:25 < Cracki> monty python sketch. cow on wall of castle, taunting me, "now go away or I shall MOO at you a second time"
2020-08-21T01:24:22 < Cracki> I'm referencing the rough cut of "building gods" (the final cut doesn't contain that segment) where some dude paints a picture where a cow walks up to a human, and it tries to have a conversation, and the human only hears "MOO!", and the cow might think it's making sensible noises, but the human sees no value in them at all
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2020-08-21T01:28:44 < Cracki> https://youtu.be/jZhpSB0C7jU?t=2650
2020-08-21T01:36:52 < Cracki> their finished documentary, contains other soundbites too https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fbIwZjuLh00
2020-08-21T01:45:01 < Cracki> thanks linguists, you prevent AI from happening while we still have safe amounts of compute power
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2020-08-21T07:25:25 < ColdKeyboard> Anyone knows or can recommend a way to provision i2c device on a bus when they initially don't have an address? Basically you hook up 10 devices at the same time and they all need to get provisioned...
2020-08-21T07:27:52 < effractur> define provision
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2020-08-21T08:34:38 < aandrew> ColdKeyboard: if they're all the same address initially, you can't without an I2C switch
2020-08-21T08:35:17 < aandrew> ColdKeyboard: if they're all on different addresses and you just dont' know what they are, you do an I2C scan
2020-08-21T08:35:42 < aandrew> (just issue a 7-bit address+read, see if something ACKs)
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2020-08-21T12:34:38 < zyp> ColdKeyboard, I've been wondering the same
2020-08-21T12:35:17 < zyp> I believe smbus might have a mechanism, and i3c have another
2020-08-21T12:36:00 < zyp> and there's also the i2c switches that aandrew mentions
2020-08-21T12:44:16 < zyp> I figure any non-switched schemes would rely on each device having a globally unique ID, a way to scan for IDs and a command to tell ID X to take address Y
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2020-08-21T12:46:27 < zyp> for scanning I figure there's two ways; if the slaves support CAN-style arbitration, you could issue a broadcast read, all unconfigured slaves starts replying, as soon as one slave sees a 0 on the wire when it's sending 1 it backs off
2020-08-21T12:48:47 < zyp> if they can't do that, the master could do a binary search for IDs
2020-08-21T12:49:29 < karlp> relies on devices having a assured unique within bus id though
2020-08-21T12:50:38 < karlp> I've never had enough collisions to warrant provisioning systems on rs485, we jsut hash the serial id and use that as our bus id. (as we -have_ a serial, we could do probing assignments like zyp suggests)
2020-08-21T12:50:38 < zyp> yes, either if you pre-assign that at production, or use one of those mac addr eeproms
2020-08-21T12:50:48 < karlp> if you don't have anything on each device, forget about it though.
2020-08-21T12:51:02 < zyp> or hash the mcu id, yeah
2020-08-21T12:51:23 < karlp> and if you're going to use i2c switches, you don't need to bother anyway
2020-08-21T12:51:56 < zyp> if the statistics of the setup makes hash collisions unlikely, that's a workable way too
2020-08-21T12:53:44 < zyp> the advantage of i2c switches is that you get topology too
2020-08-21T12:54:40 < zyp> as in, you don't only get to assign addrs, you also get to know what physical port each addr is located at
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2020-08-21T13:05:19 < karlp> why assign addresses if you have switches? they can just all be 1 or 69 or 42 or whatever you feel like
2020-08-21T13:24:16 < zyp> because if you assign addrs, you can enable all the switch ports afterwards to remove the switch overhead
2020-08-21T13:25:00 < zyp> assuming the switch used allows enabling more than one port
2020-08-21T13:25:15 < karlp> I guess, i2c is slow anyway right? ;)
2020-08-21T13:25:50 < zyp> sure, but if you're only sending a couple of bytes per transaction, another couple of bytes to switch port is quite a big overhead
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2020-08-21T15:57:42 < englishman> 3rd interview with new company next week
2020-08-21T16:03:08 < Steffanx> 🥳
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2020-08-21T16:44:23 < mawk> SW4STM32
2020-08-21T16:44:30 < mawk> SW4ST1K4 32
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2020-08-21T16:58:08 < invzim> englishman: so they're just being difficult
2020-08-21T17:10:48 < Steffanx> 3 isnt that uncommon....
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2020-08-21T17:52:42 < Cracki> more interviews means higher position means fewer applicants
2020-08-21T17:53:58 < Cracki> on the one hand, they probably want to be picky for high positions, otoh they can't be picky because there aren't many suitable applicants anyway
2020-08-21T17:54:19 < Cracki> so they're in a difficult place... and merely dancing around
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2020-08-21T17:55:46 < kaki> https://vid.pr0gramm.com/2020/08/20/a6814223095bb72c.mp4
2020-08-21T17:56:04 < kaki> sfw
2020-08-21T18:04:11 < ColdKeyboard> Thanks aandrew and zyp for the detailed answers
2020-08-21T18:04:40 < ColdKeyboard> I think that every device will have an unique ID (I'm planning on using mcu's to talk with one master on the buss).
2020-08-21T18:05:42 < ColdKeyboard> So having a unique ID shouldn't be an isse. And that's a good idea, if I send a global read, technically only one (fastest) device should be able to answer. I tell it what address to take and then repeat.
2020-08-21T18:06:19 < Cracki> are you sure they'll have different enough response times?
2020-08-21T18:06:23 < ColdKeyboard> This would be happening only once, when the unit is powered for the very first time or when new slave device is added to the bus... so even if it takes few seconds to setup or couple of retries... it should be fine
2020-08-21T18:07:02 < ColdKeyboard> Cracki That's what concernes me a bit... they might not. I might have to programatically add a pseudo-random delay
2020-08-21T18:08:33 < ColdKeyboard> In that case, if I get corrupted UID, the HUB would basically say; UID, take address of 0xYZ and then do a scan to see if there is a device on the YZ, if not, repeat
2020-08-21T18:08:54 < ColdKeyboard> It's not super robust, so that's why I was wondering if there is a proven method that already works
2020-08-21T18:14:16 < Cracki> i see that "problem" and its solutions discussed above
2020-08-21T18:14:38 < Cracki> scan and/or binary search
2020-08-21T18:16:29 < Cracki> i2c multi master can handle collision detection
2020-08-21T18:17:13 < Cracki> you might have to test all the bits of two devices' unique ids in several steps (use their bits in temporary i2c addresses)
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2020-08-21T18:17:44 < Cracki> not sure if collision detection also works inside of messages, which would make this simpler
2020-08-21T18:23:04 < ColdKeyboard> One thing I'm not 100% sure is; If I send a command on a "broadcast" address, so every device sees it. When the first device starts sending, everyone else should see bus is busy and wait... right?
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2020-08-21T18:24:08 < Cracki> devices see all messages, question is if they should feel spoken to, and if they should ack the message
2020-08-21T18:26:29 < Cracki> the bus isn't "busy" as such. devices that are writing a "high" but read a "low" would know that someone else wrote the low
2020-08-21T18:27:12 < Cracki> devices would listen to the bus and notice activity and if they're smart they wait until it's been idle for a while
2020-08-21T18:27:30 < Cracki> or they start talking anyway which would cause a collision
2020-08-21T18:28:09 < Cracki> that's the multi master situation. single master multiple slaves, slaves only collide if they have the same address
2020-08-21T18:28:37 < Cracki> and if the master talks to slaves that have the same address
2020-08-21T18:33:26 < aandrew> zyp: I2C doesn't have anything like CAN-style arbitration. There is none; no two devices may have the same address, and there's a non-standard extension which allows for a "braodcast" address where any slave supporting that just won't respond to the broadcast
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2020-08-21T19:23:32 < englishman> invzim: it's a relatively high up position, certainly the highest for me. first one is the sanity test and also to make sure I get to ask questions and make sure it's right for me. second is getting to know you, third is technical and with people who will be bosses/colleagues
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2020-08-21T19:29:27 < englishman> I had homemade tzatziki for lunch didn't realize how much garlic I had put in. really appreciating that 2m distance rn
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2020-08-21T19:40:41 < aandrew> englishman: hahaha
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2020-08-21T21:27:49 < invzim> englishman: best of luck, if you want the job
2020-08-21T21:28:34 < invzim> I've been to several interviews to learn more about the company/position and afterwards decided it's not for me
2020-08-21T21:28:35 < englishman> thanks. I'll learn on Tuesday if it's actually interesting. though it seems so. and it'll advance my career quite a bit.
2020-08-21T21:29:04 < machinehum> What's the company
2020-08-21T21:29:20 < englishman> yes I've had that happen before... no I don't want to program traffic signs all day long for $45k thanks
2020-08-21T21:29:48 < machinehum> That sounds sick
2020-08-21T21:29:55 < englishman> machinehum, a local company making medical equipment
2020-08-21T21:30:32 < invzim> regulatory & sign-off, risk-assessment nightmare etc or just very focus on making good stuff?
2020-08-21T21:31:36 < invzim> I'm in the 'medical' field myself, although networking, and they actually really care about 100% uptime and not just statistical SLA wankery
2020-08-21T21:34:33 < englishman> they have a regulatory and sign off department and this is not that department
2020-08-21T21:34:45 < englishman> one of my first questions lol
2020-08-21T21:35:20 < englishman> even here with Lazor shitz, they have a standards Dept that just deals with that and gives us (r&d) guidance
2020-08-21T21:38:08 < machinehum> Sounds cool
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2020-08-21T22:32:21 < zyp> aandrew, plain i2c doesn't, but smbus does
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2020-08-21T22:32:36 < ColdKeyboard> With SWD, can you share SWDIO and CLK lines between multiple units and have dedicated RST for each one to program "multiple" devices at once? :)
2020-08-21T22:33:05 < ColdKeyboard> I'm just thinking when I start debugging that i2c project... Any change that I make I'll have to reflash like 5-10 units to verify if it works as it should
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2020-08-21T22:33:25 < zyp> aandrew, I read up on how smbus does address assignment now, it's exactly like I suggested; every device has a 128-bit UDID, master asks for UDID from any unconfigured devices, devices reply with CAN-style arbitration
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2020-08-21T23:01:48 < Cracki> ColdKeyboard, what you want is JTAG. SWD works without a reset signal. it may be a bus or not.
2020-08-21T23:02:19 < Cracki> thx for info on smbus
2020-08-21T23:03:28 < PaulFertser> ColdKeyboard: stm32s are able to talk both jtag and swd _under_ reset. And that's a good thing.
2020-08-21T23:03:44 < PaulFertser> ColdKeyboard: multi-drop SWD is not widely supported yet
2020-08-21T23:04:20 < PaulFertser> ColdKeyboard: putting your units in a jtag chain should work. Assuming you use a proper JTAG adapter, not stlink.
2020-08-21T23:04:26 < zyp> PaulFertser, by parts or tools?
2020-08-21T23:07:22 < PaulFertser> zyp: afaik, both. Do current STM32 generations support it?
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2020-08-21T23:07:38 < zyp> I don't know, I meant to ask you :)
2020-08-21T23:08:55 < PaulFertser> Unfortunately, I'm not aware.
2020-08-21T23:09:16 < PaulFertser> At least ST folks are not actively pushing support to OpenOCD so I'd guess it's still not widely adopted.
2020-08-21T23:09:51 < ColdKeyboard> Got it. Thanks.
2020-08-21T23:10:39 < ColdKeyboard> I also took a peak at one of the PIC's that I have and how it does the I2C slave transmit collision and basically this is what I'm looking for `A slave receives a read request and begins shifting
2020-08-21T23:10:39 < ColdKeyboard> data out on the SDA line. If a bus collision is detected
2020-08-21T23:10:39 < ColdKeyboard> and the SBCDE bit of the SSP1CON3 register is set,
2020-08-21T23:10:39 < ColdKeyboard> the BCL1IF bit of the PIR3 register is set. Once a bus
2020-08-21T23:10:40 < ColdKeyboard> collision is detected, the slave goes idle and waits to be
2020-08-21T23:10:41 < ColdKeyboard> addressed again. User software can use the BCL1IF bit
2020-08-21T23:10:42 < ColdKeyboard> to handle a slave bus collision.`
2020-08-21T23:11:04 < ColdKeyboard> I assume STM has something similar that I can use :)
2020-08-21T23:11:14 < zyp> yeah, at least in smbus mode
2020-08-21T23:13:30 < qyx> whois implementing dynamic addresses on i2c/smbus?
2020-08-21T23:13:35 < qyx> me wanna
2020-08-21T23:14:04 < qyx> oh ColdKeyboard 
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2020-08-21T23:37:53 < ColdKeyboard> qyx Yeah, I have to implement dynamic address provisioning. Basically on first power up all devices don't have address asigned but once they get address assigned they would use the previously assigned one.
2020-08-21T23:41:58 < machinehum> Just got off the phone with an accountant, if any Canadian's thinking about working in the States make sure to call an accountant before lol
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2020-08-21T23:42:13 < machinehum> There were several things I missed
2020-08-21T23:54:00 < karlp> ColdKeyboard: rs485 can do collision detection if you just wire DE/_RE separately, instead of to the same pin like normal.
2020-08-21T23:54:08 < ds2> what are the gotchas?
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2020-08-21T23:58:02 < qyx> karlp: isn't rs485 state undefined when driven both + and -?
--- Day changed Sat Aug 22 2020
2020-08-22T00:04:24 < karlp> yeah, but if you don't read back what you sent, you got a collision
2020-08-22T00:11:12 < qyx> have you seen https://www.tdk.com/corp/en/about_tdk/our_history/index.htm
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2020-08-22T00:13:55 < aandrew> machinehum: indeed. The best solution is to incorporate. 
2020-08-22T00:35:56 < zyp> karlp, reliably?
2020-08-22T00:36:33  * karlp shrugs. I've only read of it being done by .mil people, I've never needed it.
2020-08-22T00:36:50 < karlp> I imagine it would be reliable over the course of a message, perhaps not a bit, 
2020-08-22T00:36:52 < zyp> karlp, if you have two drivers trying to drive opposing states with a bit of cable inbetween, don't you risk each receiver seeing what their local driver sends?
2020-08-22T00:37:19 < karlp> apparently not?
2020-08-22T00:37:40 < karlp> it's also in some notes I read from vendors on why the pins are even separate at all
2020-08-22T00:37:41 < zyp> I mean, the whole difference between rs485 and can transceivers is that the latter gives a defined behavior during collisions
2020-08-22T00:37:44 < qyx> let the bit of cable be something around 1000m
2020-08-22T00:38:22 < karlp> do your i2c on 1000m first :)
2020-08-22T00:38:23 < qyx> both transceivers see tx ok, because the collision disappears somewhere in between
2020-08-22T00:38:55 < zyp> qyx, exactly
2020-08-22T00:40:57 < karlp> J1708 apparently puts tx on the DE pin, (not DO, they tie that high) but uses rs485, for collisions without priority
2020-08-22T00:41:01 < karlp> but I'm no autoguy
2020-08-22T00:41:17 < qyx> O_o
2020-08-22T00:41:26 < qyx> so they basically convert RS285 to CAN
2020-08-22T00:41:32 < karlp> kinda, yeah :)
2020-08-22T00:42:04 < karlp> might be what I misrememebered reading anyway, I just know I saw something "proper" using rs485 drivers with the pins separate, and it wasn't just a "works for me"
2020-08-22T00:44:30 < qyx> and for the record, my i2c fails on 5cm
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2020-08-22T02:02:37 < GenTooMan> qyx you mean RS485 to CAN? Do you know your capacitance loading of your I2C bus?
2020-08-22T02:04:48 < GenTooMan> the length of your bus affects that but if you have anything weird on the bus that will cause a lot of problems anything greater than 400pf is a problem from memory.
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2020-08-22T14:35:34 < Thorn> how do I design an interface between modules for a modular PLC (no backplane, modules connect to each other like ardweeno shields)?
2020-08-22T14:36:18 < Thorn> one idea is to use 9-bit uart (probably even synchronous for high speeds) + a daisy chained interface similar to ws2812b for address assignment (every module removes a byte from each received packet and passes the rest of the data on to the next module)
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2020-08-22T14:46:22 < Steffanx> such cross posting Thorn :P
2020-08-22T14:47:01 < Thorn> no reply in telegram, such low quality chats there
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2020-08-22T14:48:49 < Steffanx> yeah
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2020-08-22T16:52:38 < qyx> zyp: jvnv down .(
2020-08-22T16:53:05 < Steffanx> ooohnnoooo
2020-08-22T16:53:10 < Steffanx> is the internet dying?
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2020-08-22T16:57:16 < emeryth> Thorn: just use CAN
2020-08-22T17:08:00 < Thorn> emeryth why CAN? there's no cables, modules plug into each other using connectors (bus in on the left, bus out on the right). also cheap MCUs don't have CAN while UARTs are available everywhere
2020-08-22T17:09:16 < Thorn> and CAN doesn't solve the address assignment problem in any way
2020-08-22T17:16:05 < GenTooMan> look at  DHCP for hints? One can use LVDS but bus termination and setup will be necessary. It's possible to do automatically but not simple (IE it won't be easy).
2020-08-22T17:20:19 < Cracki> maybe look at how existing PLC 'systems' do this.
2020-08-22T17:22:05 < GenTooMan> old school used RS485 and was limited to 32 units on the bus. Bus length is dependent on speed. 
2020-08-22T17:24:05 < Cracki> I'd go for a bus/shared medium instead of "forwarding".
2020-08-22T17:24:55 < Cracki> if it's gonna be tardweeno grade, i.e. not CAN or anything proven and commonly used, just use i2c
2020-08-22T17:25:54 < Cracki> maybe reserve some lines for SPI and hand out master time on it to devices if they need it
2020-08-22T17:26:08 < Cracki> or sync uart
2020-08-22T17:28:24 < Cracki> for address assignment only, a relay line. if you need an address, pull it low. if your right hand neighbor pulls low, you have to as well. if RHN is high but you are low, _you_ are getting the assignment
2020-08-22T17:28:40 < GenTooMan> I2C won't work for more than a few feet at best.
2020-08-22T17:28:56 < GenTooMan> or say limited to sub meter.
2020-08-22T17:28:59 < Cracki> I'd like to see a stack of "PLC" modules that's longer than a few feet
2020-08-22T17:29:46 < Cracki> *a stack of "PLC" modules that contain such weak sauce that they don't just use CAN
2020-08-22T17:29:46 < GenTooMan> however SPI is quite possible if you pump it through LVDS drivers.
2020-08-22T17:43:50 < Ultrasauce> 30 seconds of research tells me modbus is the defacto standard, with the rs485 phy
2020-08-22T17:46:10 < Thorn> Ultrasauce for a fieldbus probably, but for a stack of modules sitting on a DIN rail like this one? https://youtu.be/UDOU_YmGLnE?t=20
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2020-08-22T17:51:33 < Thorn> https://support.industry.siemens.com/tf//ww/en/posts/backplane-communication/63813?page=0&pageSize=10
2020-08-22T17:57:43 < Cracki> I just had that page open. Amir Alwaled wants to do FPGA. okeh
2020-08-22T17:59:19 < Cracki> so their "backplane" is secret sauce... maybe other mfgs document their stuff
2020-08-22T18:00:21 < Cracki> good hints to other busses at least
2020-08-22T18:00:51 < GenTooMan> bus wise reliability is everything speed is secondary.
2020-08-22T18:01:08 < GenTooMan> that's why they use CAN bus a lot.
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2020-08-22T18:48:31 < aandrew> I see Mangy_Dog got a hackaday article
2020-08-22T19:04:09 < Steffanx> Again?
2020-08-22T19:05:30 < Steffanx> I see 
2020-08-22T19:07:05 < englishman> Steffy I blew up a msp430 yesterday
2020-08-22T19:08:11 < englishman> I wasn't even trying. must have been a subconscious action
2020-08-22T19:10:05 < GenTooMan> heh one of TI's demon boards had a flow in it's power supply, they set the LDO voltage for 3.6 volts but neglected to think of what happens if VBUS gets shorted. The result is when VBUS was unshorted on the dev board that it blew up half the parts because the LDO would spike to 4.3volts afterward.
2020-08-22T19:10:44 < GenTooMan> change demon to demo (funny) flow to flaw (heh)
2020-08-22T19:11:26 < GenTooMan> so that's another way to kill an MSP430 :D
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2020-08-22T19:14:44 < GenTooMan> the reason I know it is because it was really easy to short vbus.
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2020-08-22T19:19:48 < Mangy_Dog> Any VST peeps about, Im looking for the Kirnu Arpeggiator vst plugin, x64 1.2.1 (its freeware) but the site has died. Anyone happen to have it and could package it up for me? (there is now a pro version called Cream. But that also seems abandond, Im just after the old free version) 
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2020-08-22T20:06:08 < R2COM> hello chatterz
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2020-08-23T01:05:52 < coolyo> hey, i trying blinker using stm-link v3, if I just upload a program that simply turns on GPIO, and uplaod through st-link utility, then it should just turn on the LEDS correct, I don't need to disconnect or anything fancy?
2020-08-23T01:07:54 < englishman> depends on your uploader, usually there's an option specifying to take it out of reset after programming
2020-08-23T01:08:57 < coolyo> stm32 st-link utility
2020-08-23T01:09:21 < coolyo> "reset mode: hardware reset" is that what you're talking about?
2020-08-23T01:09:37 < englishman> yes there's a menu option somewhere along the lines of "run after programming" iirc
2020-08-23T01:09:45 < englishman> no that one is a little different
2020-08-23T01:09:59 < coolyo> 'connect under reset'
2020-08-23T01:10:08 < Cracki> you should need none of these options.
2020-08-23T01:10:12 < coolyo> well, i tried just unplugging and pluggin in my pcb, that would have same effect right?
2020-08-23T01:10:16 < englishman> yes
2020-08-23T01:10:21 < Cracki> can you explain more precisely what you mean by "stm32 st-link utility"
2020-08-23T01:10:28 < Cracki> what os, where did you get this software, etc
2020-08-23T01:10:49 < coolyo> thats the software from stm32
2020-08-23T01:10:57 < Cracki> ST branded gui stuff?
2020-08-23T01:11:01 < coolyo> yeah
2020-08-23T01:11:44 < Cracki> that should upload and then let the target run
2020-08-23T01:11:55 < Cracki> is it _not_ blinking for you?
2020-08-23T01:12:21 < coolyo> yeah, i uploaded and verified program, so was just wondering if i needed a special 'reset'
2020-08-23T01:12:42 < coolyo> well, the stm32 utility program verified program
2020-08-23T01:12:42 < Cracki> is that program some kind of ide, or is it the "stm32cubeprogrammer"?
2020-08-23T01:13:13 < Cracki> the cubeprogrammer is some blue styled thing. the "st-link utility" I know is a plain gray gui that might have a hex dump display in the middle
2020-08-23T01:13:18 < coolyo> https://www.st.com/en/development-tools/stsw-link004.html
2020-08-23T01:13:25 < coolyo> someone said this was easiest tool to upload
2020-08-23T01:13:29 < coolyo> and it is very easy
2020-08-23T01:13:44 < Cracki> eh it does the job but if you want to develop that's the wrong thing to use
2020-08-23T01:13:45 < coolyo> so i generated bin in cube, then upload using this tool
2020-08-23T01:13:56 < Cracki> cubeIDE lets you debug
2020-08-23T01:14:37 < Cracki> they're too dumb to give cubeIDE/truestudio a "just flash it" button, which is why the internet is full of recipes of how to add a "tool" to the eclipse it really is
2020-08-23T01:15:12 < coolyo> well i didn't see any quick upload button in cubeide, i will research using that next
2020-08-23T01:15:16 < Cracki> if you write your code "in cube" (cubeIDE), hit debug. it'll program the target (surely) and break at main (probably)
2020-08-23T01:15:35 < Cracki> it's certainly no arduino
2020-08-23T01:15:42 < Cracki> or professional software, this cubeIDE
2020-08-23T01:16:09 < Cracki> ask around what people use, you'll get a dozen different answers and n*(n-1) flame wars out of it
2020-08-23T01:16:30 < coolyo> ok, i think i got stuck on making my target, will google that
2020-08-23T01:17:07 < Cracki> you can use the stink utility to watch the target's registers, specifically program counter
2020-08-23T01:17:14 < Cracki> it's somewhere in the target or st-link menu
2020-08-23T01:17:18 < Cracki> CPU registers or something
2020-08-23T01:17:30 < Cracki> if those move, you can assume that the target actually runs
2020-08-23T01:17:57 < coolyo> i do see the memory map in st-link-utility and it does have a 'progam and verify'
2020-08-23T01:18:06 < coolyo> so, i think the program is correctly installed
2020-08-23T01:18:13 < Cracki> if they don't change (you have to refresh regardless), it may be halted or stuck in some tight loop
2020-08-23T01:18:31 < qyx> who was doing that orienteering thingie, bitmask or catphish?
2020-08-23T01:18:38 < qyx> how did the "sync my time" saga end?
2020-08-23T01:18:53 < bitmask> no idea what youre talking about
2020-08-23T01:19:02 < qyx> it was catphish then
2020-08-23T01:19:06 < qyx> captish or whatever
2020-08-23T01:19:32 < Cracki> the first
2020-08-23T01:19:58 < Cracki> how to murder neighbors that burn junk at night
2020-08-23T01:20:01 < coolyo> so in stm32cube, i have to do "build target" -> "create" ... ? but I don't see many options, is this supposed to be automatic
2020-08-23T01:20:06 < Cracki> oops this isn't google...
2020-08-23T01:20:51 < Cracki> uh, I don't have cubeIDE handy to follow along
2020-08-23T01:21:35 < Cracki> hit F5 or sth, that starts debugging
2020-08-23T01:21:46 < Cracki> also causes it to build before
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2020-08-23T01:26:20 < Cracki> run -> run or run -> debug should be the menu item. "project -> build all" should work. you shouldn't have to set anything up in there in terms of "create" or whatever
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2020-08-23T01:37:03 < coolyo> ok i got debugger to run in cube ide, thanks
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2020-08-23T01:43:11 < Cracki> if you get fed up with it, squawk. some people use whatever text editor, build and debugg it on the command line (make, gdb), which cubemx can generate. some don't use cubemx. some don't even use ST's HAL but libopencm3. some use other IDEs. some use arduino.
2020-08-23T01:45:23 < Cracki> commercial IDEs exist. st-link is also not the pinnacle of utility. there's a "black magic probe", there are things called "CMSIS-DAP" (or implementations thereof). segger is a company selling debug probes (and giving you good software for free with their stuff). china has cheap clones of their stuff.
2020-08-23T01:50:24 < coolyo> can someone confirm what my hardware settings should be to make a GPIO an led, there are 4 settings: GPIO output level, GPIO mode, GPIO pull-up/pull-down, maximum output speed
2020-08-23T01:51:24 < qyx> and enable clock in RCC for the corresponding GPIO port
2020-08-23T01:51:30 < qyx> beforehand
2020-08-23T01:52:12 < qyx> pull up/down and ospeed doesn't matter for a LED
2020-08-23T01:52:23 < qyx> set mode to output, push-pull
2020-08-23T01:52:31 < qyx> and toggle low/high periodically
2020-08-23T01:56:05 < Cracki> coolyo, speed low (irrelevant), not sure wat mode, level is what you're changing at runtime so irrelevant, mode should be output push-pull or open drain. then your led needs to be wired right, i.e. one leg to vcc, the other to the pin, and a resistor in series on one side of the led.
2020-08-23T01:56:34 < Cracki> pull up/down also irrelevant, leave it off
2020-08-23T01:58:41 < Cracki> "alternate function" is when a peripheral (timer, uart, ...) controls the pin. otherwise it's a gpio
2020-08-23T01:59:21 < Cracki> or rather "programmed"
2020-08-23T02:00:05 < Cracki> wat he said
2020-08-23T02:00:58 < Cracki> HAL_Delay(milliseconds), HAL_GPIO_WritePin(...)
2020-08-23T02:01:27 < coolyo> ok, i tried following to the T, I am using startup_stm32l432 so my only difference is my clock is SYSCLK is 64 from their diagram, and I use  HAL_GPIO_TogglePin (GPIOB, GPIO_PIN_5); https://www.st.com/content/ccc/resource/training/technical/product_training/group0/70/bc/bb/b1/3a/23/42/f7/STM32-Education_step2/files/STM32-Education_step2.pdf/jcr:content/translations/en.STM32-Education_step2.pdf
2020-08-23T02:03:03 < Cracki> cubemx lets you configure the clock tree, if you need that.
2020-08-23T02:03:15 < Cracki> oh nice, cubemx v4, the previous version
2020-08-23T02:04:00 < qyx> I would suppose cubemx makes life easier
2020-08-23T02:04:16 < qyx> with libopencm3-examples, you just search for a blinky example
2020-08-23T02:04:21 < coolyo> ok, i changed the x 8 to x10 so my clock is matched from their diagram.
2020-08-23T02:04:22 < qyx> and do make flash
2020-08-23T02:04:46 < qyx> you don't have to configure anything, you can even leave the clock at defaults
2020-08-23T02:04:53 < qyx> I mean hardware wise
2020-08-23T02:04:57 < qyx> idk what cubemx wants
2020-08-23T02:05:00 < coolyo> is there a way to figure out which registry to lookup in the memory to see whether my GPIO is 'on'
2020-08-23T02:05:02 < Cracki> you don't have to mess with the clock tree actually. HAL should be configuring systick to tick at millisecond intervals, and HAL_Delay uses that
2020-08-23T02:05:06 < qyx> but the mcu surely runs with the default config
2020-08-23T02:05:31 < coolyo> if you look at the clock diagram #2 i changed to PLLCLK
2020-08-23T02:05:34 < Cracki> uh, see if cubeide has a register view
2020-08-23T02:05:35 < coolyo> it was on something else
2020-08-23T02:06:13 < Cracki> perhaps post a screenshot of your cubeide. maybe you started debugging but it's still paused at main()...
2020-08-23T02:06:24 < Cracki> or you are wiggling the wrong pin
2020-08-23T02:06:28 < Cracki> or your led is wired up wrong
2020-08-23T02:06:37 < Cracki> or a bunch of different issues
2020-08-23T02:06:47 < coolyo> yeah i did hit play, yeah i know could be many things :(
2020-08-23T02:06:51 < Cracki> what even is your board, custom? st disco board, nucleo?
2020-08-23T02:06:55 < coolyo> custom
2020-08-23T02:06:58 < Cracki> great
2020-08-23T02:07:14 < Cracki> at least it programs ok, which means the debug interface works
2020-08-23T02:07:17 < coolyo> ok, i do have the general registers, but where do i lookup to find the 'right' one
2020-08-23T02:07:55 < Cracki> how about setting a breakpoint on your togglepin call and waiting for it to break
2020-08-23T02:07:56 < coolyo> like i see the GPIOB but i dont know where to lookup the correct numbers
2020-08-23T02:08:18 < Cracki> look for PORTB, top level among the registers
2020-08-23T02:08:44 < coolyo> i think that's GPIOB equivalent
2020-08-23T02:08:53 < Cracki> hm yes
2020-08-23T02:08:56 < coolyo> i am looking, it has moder, otyper, ospeedr, pupdr
2020-08-23T02:08:59 < Cracki> you might wanna look at the BSRR
2020-08-23T02:09:12 < coolyo> ok, look for change there?
2020-08-23T02:09:19 < coolyo> i'll try
2020-08-23T02:09:35 < Cracki> perhaps you should do the breakpoint first. nobody knows if your target actually executes.
2020-08-23T02:10:02 < Cracki> I'd omit the "perhaps" but then people jump down my throat because I'm not expressing myself sufficiently hesitantly
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2020-08-23T02:12:05 < coolyo> debugger seems to always put a break point at HAL_Init(); if that satisfies the condition you're speaking of
2020-08-23T02:13:12 < Cracki> close enough to "entry of main"
2020-08-23T02:13:22 < coolyo> all my BSRR values are empty, every other GPIOB registry has values
2020-08-23T02:13:53 < Cracki> MX_GPIO_Init
2020-08-23T02:13:57 < Cracki> step past that
2020-08-23T02:14:17 < Cracki> if it's not there, you haven't regenerated the code from any changes inside cubemx
2020-08-23T02:14:43 < R2COM> zyps code acquires ipsr at all times in laks
2020-08-23T02:15:11 < R2COM> zyp i think your laks interrupt implementation has some extra function calls which could have been avoided
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2020-08-23T02:21:42 < coolyo> Cracki: so when I run the loop with just the gpio toggle and hal delay, i see IDR and ODR changing, but BSRR is all empty, but I"m using the default autogenerated code so I'm inclinded to think it initialized correctly
2020-08-23T02:22:33 < Cracki> odr is the one you need to watch for
2020-08-23T02:23:03 < Cracki> I shouldn't have advised to look at bsrr, that's only ever written to to change specific bits
2020-08-23T02:23:24 < Cracki> idr should reflect odr
2020-08-23T02:23:39 < Cracki> or stay still because this is not an input pin
2020-08-23T02:24:06 < Cracki> I guess it could reflect the actual state of the pin when it's set to output, ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
2020-08-23T02:25:04 < coolyo> ok well i appreciate help, i'm just bashing different things and waiting for my led to turn on lol
2020-08-23T02:29:55 < Cracki> led soldered on backwards
2020-08-23T02:30:17 < Cracki> how about you take a multimeter and probe the pin
2020-08-23T02:31:02 < Cracki> and maybe make it toggle at an observable speed (for a multimeter that may or may not have a bargraph)
2020-08-23T02:31:36 < Cracki> brb murdering the neighbors that still burn random shit and now add noise to the mix
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2020-08-23T03:24:00 < Cracki> TIL: in NYC, you pay zero property tax on empty properties. which is why there are so many unrented properties there. elites must have come up with that to park their money. https://www.cityandstateny.com/articles/opinion/commentary/reduce-manhattan-storefront-vacancies-fix-commercial-rent-tax.html
2020-08-23T03:25:29 < Cracki> it's not a property tax but a tenancy tax. which is why they now talk of fixing it with a vacancy tax. instead of just taxing the property.
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2020-08-23T05:29:19 < R2COM> taxation=theft
2020-08-23T05:31:31 < dongs> thats what the commies thought, how far did that get them?
2020-08-23T05:31:54 < dongs> R2 are you voting for trump this fall?
2020-08-23T05:33:25 -!- veegee [~veegee@ipagstaticip-3d3f7614-22f3-5b69-be13-7ab4b2c585d9.sdsl.bell.ca] has quit [Quit: veegee]
2020-08-23T05:36:21 < Cracki> making a cross on a piece of paper does very little. if you want to affect politics, become a ballot stuffer or exploit mail-in voting. anyone can register to vote at the DMV. all they want is your solemn promise ("check thix box") that you're a citizen.
2020-08-23T05:38:32 < R2COM> im afraid you get things wrong...uber taxes is actually a commie thing; capitalists wanna make more money and pay less tax to government
2020-08-23T05:39:00 < R2COM> uber high taxes*
2020-08-23T05:39:17 < R2COM> commies = high taxes, but all fucktards have meal on table
2020-08-23T05:39:58 < R2COM> im paying ~48% taxes on any bonuses at work
2020-08-23T05:40:14 < R2COM> lieterally half of my money goes to pay for homeless niggers
2020-08-23T05:40:17 < Cracki> I'm for a middle ground. the larger a corporation, the more controls on it, to protect the nation.
2020-08-23T05:40:42 < R2COM> all im saying is i dont wanna pay 50% tax
2020-08-23T05:40:54 < Cracki> neither do I, but we aren't megacorps :D
2020-08-23T05:41:12 < R2COM> im paying around 28 or 32% taxes on regular income
2020-08-23T05:41:17 < R2COM> and 48% or so on bonuses
2020-08-23T05:41:37 < Cracki> 50% taxed, we're halfway towards full communism
2020-08-23T05:42:06 < R2COM> well yeah, last bonus i got for $10k i got actually like $4995 or so lol
2020-08-23T05:42:15 < Cracki> awful
2020-08-23T05:42:40 < mawk> in france former president Hollande wanted a 75% tax
2020-08-23T05:42:41 < R2COM> its literally doesnt make sense to owe company and workers in USA unless you are megacorp with own exceptions
2020-08-23T05:42:49 < mawk> but the supreme court ruled it was too communist even for france
2020-08-23T05:42:52 < mawk> they said "confiscatory"
2020-08-23T05:42:56 < Cracki> marginal tax rate or total?
2020-08-23T05:43:12 < mawk> marginal
2020-08-23T05:43:15 < mawk> above one million
2020-08-23T05:43:26 < R2COM> if someone makes million/year its HIS FUCKING MONEY
2020-08-23T05:43:31 < R2COM> nobody should fuck with it
2020-08-23T05:43:35 < Cracki> germany has similar insanity. the marginal tax rate (i.e. what you're robbed of on the last buck you earn, iow integrate the curve) is somewhere around 40-50% too
2020-08-23T05:43:51 < Cracki> but effectively that figures to ~30% for average earners
2020-08-23T05:44:02 < R2COM> 30% is a lot too
2020-08-23T05:44:05 < mawk> well here I mean all your money above 1 million€ would have had 75% tax rate
2020-08-23T05:44:11 < R2COM> honestly i do not feel that i get any benefit from it?
2020-08-23T05:44:15 < mawk> like you earn 1.5million, then 500k€ has 75% tax
2020-08-23T05:44:16 < R2COM> what do i get from those taxes??
2020-08-23T05:44:18 < R2COM> like what?
2020-08-23T05:44:20 < R2COM> roads??
2020-08-23T05:44:23 < R2COM> protection?
2020-08-23T05:44:24 < R2COM> lmao
2020-08-23T05:44:29 < mawk> if you become a homeless nigger then you have food R2COM 
2020-08-23T05:44:30 < Cracki> I'm trying to tell people that inheritance tax is cancer
2020-08-23T05:44:54 < Cracki> people around me offline seem to think inheritance should go 100% to the state
2020-08-23T05:45:09 < Cracki> like what's the fucking point of having children then? of course none of them have children or plan to have
2020-08-23T05:45:11 < R2COM> mawk my ancestors and all generations before me survived without any free stuff, pretty sure ill too
2020-08-23T05:45:33 < R2COM> inheritance?
2020-08-23T05:45:35 < R2COM> like?
2020-08-23T05:45:43 < R2COM> your rich grandpa died and you give his money to gov?
2020-08-23T05:45:49 < Cracki> like your parents die and will you their wealth
2020-08-23T05:46:07 < Cracki> such as a piece of land, a house, money, whatever
2020-08-23T05:46:13 < mawk> inheritance tax is super high in france
2020-08-23T05:46:13 < R2COM> thats insane
2020-08-23T05:46:30 < Cracki> the point of inheritance is that you can carry your life's work over to your offspring, who can work with that, and it accumulates
2020-08-23T05:47:01 < Cracki> yeah these people are evil demons. they want to destroy everything that holds society together
2020-08-23T05:47:04 < R2COM> my family long ago before soviet union power was established in area were really rich, soviet gov. took all their mansions etc, and settled them to 0
2020-08-23T05:47:10 < Cracki> healthy families are literally nazi.
2020-08-23T05:47:40 < R2COM> and same shit they wanna do now in usa
2020-08-23T05:47:45 < R2COM> with this democratic shits
2020-08-23T05:47:48 < Cracki> and if you try to move your wealth to your offspring in the form of pre-death gifts, they eye that greedily too
2020-08-23T05:48:13 < mawk> 45% for over $1 million inheritance in france
2020-08-23T05:48:24 < mawk> or $2million rather
2020-08-23T05:48:28 < R2COM> what means 1m$ inheritance?
2020-08-23T05:48:44 < Cracki> a largish house
2020-08-23T05:49:01 < R2COM> i dont think there should be any inheritance tax
2020-08-23T05:49:03 < mawk> like your mother had $1million in the bank, and she dies
2020-08-23T05:49:08 < mawk> so the money goes to you
2020-08-23T05:49:12 < mawk> well then you only get half that
2020-08-23T05:49:15 < mawk> the rest goes to state
2020-08-23T05:49:22 < R2COM> nobody should transfer it that direct way lol
2020-08-23T05:49:31 < mawk> how then ?
2020-08-23T05:49:34 < mawk> it's not just about money
2020-08-23T05:49:36 < mawk> it's about any asset
2020-08-23T05:49:43 < Cracki> aye, state has no claim to the people's inheritances and they should be clobbered for trying
2020-08-23T05:50:16 < mawk> when the state knows you inherit something, they compute the value of the assets, subtract the debts and some deductions (for instance if the dead person gave to charity during her life and so on), then gives you a nice bill
2020-08-23T05:50:27 < mawk> if you inherit a nice family house, most often you have to sell it to pay the succession taxes
2020-08-23T05:50:36 < mawk> if you're not already rich
2020-08-23T05:51:11 < R2COM> mawk then you can move out
2020-08-23T05:51:21 < R2COM> and wire off assets
2020-08-23T05:51:23 < R2COM> to some islands
2020-08-23T05:51:26 < mawk> lol
2020-08-23T05:51:28 < R2COM> and hire personal defence
2020-08-23T05:51:39 < Cracki> get some vaults, move gold
2020-08-23T05:51:44 < R2COM> rite
2020-08-23T05:51:47 < mawk> that's highly illegal
2020-08-23T05:51:52 < mawk> you will just lose any trial
2020-08-23T05:51:53 < R2COM> moving is illegal?
2020-08-23T05:52:00 < mawk> and they will seize your bank accounts in the country
2020-08-23T05:52:04 < mawk> make your life hell
2020-08-23T05:52:11 < mawk> not paying succession tax is illegal yes
2020-08-23T05:52:23 < Cracki> banksters assist the politicians
2020-08-23T05:52:33 < Cracki> have wealth that banksters can't touch
2020-08-23T05:53:10 < R2COM> when parents are alive they can cash out all money by buying gold and expencive stuff and hide it 
2020-08-23T05:53:17 < Cracki> eh, european countries really hate their people
2020-08-23T05:53:21 < mawk> then I hope the fiscal administration never knows, R2COM 
2020-08-23T05:53:29 < mawk> even 10 years after they can still come after you
2020-08-23T05:53:36 < Cracki> they'll smell your assets
2020-08-23T05:53:49 < mawk> they can audit your bank account logs and find out discrepencies, then they can search your house for domcuments and so on
2020-08-23T05:53:54 < mawk> they have huge powers
2020-08-23T05:54:05 < R2COM> noone can search your house without reason
2020-08-23T05:54:14 < mawk> in USA sure, but this is communist europe
2020-08-23T05:54:18 < Cracki> gotta be a megacorp, then you can use all the loopholes and you can afford lawyers
2020-08-23T05:54:20 < R2COM> and if you live in some country like that then fuck that place
2020-08-23T05:54:27 < mawk> and breaking fiscal law is a good reason for searching your house
2020-08-23T05:54:33 < mawk> french police doesn't need warrant to enter homes
2020-08-23T05:54:34 < mawk> that's a US thing
2020-08-23T05:54:47 < R2COM> lol thats fucked up
2020-08-23T05:55:11 < Cracki> do muricans even have ID other than driver's license (which isn't real ID) or passport (which you only need to cross the border, right?)
2020-08-23T05:55:22 < R2COM> there is some ID yes
2020-08-23T05:55:29 < Cracki> europeans have ID. id says where you live (or where they are supposed to reach you)
2020-08-23T05:55:44 < Cracki> if you move and you don't report it within two weeks, they'll fine you a few bucks a week
2020-08-23T05:56:16 < R2COM> we are entering an area of Cyberpunk
2020-08-23T05:56:19 < R2COM> =megacorps
2020-08-23T05:56:24 < R2COM> era*
2020-08-23T05:56:31 < Cracki> murica should require proof of citizenship to vote
2020-08-23T05:57:22 < mawk> I thought they did
2020-08-23T05:57:26 < Cracki> they don't
2020-08-23T05:57:30 < mawk> since democrats wanted to make foreigners vote
2020-08-23T05:57:32 < mawk> or something
2020-08-23T05:57:39 < Cracki> they want to make it legal
2020-08-23T05:57:45 < Cracki> right now it's not quite legal
2020-08-23T05:57:52 < Cracki> or rather, "don't ask don't tell"
2020-08-23T05:57:55 < mawk> lol
2020-08-23T05:58:20 < Cracki> register to vote at the DMV (!), they don't give a fuck if you're a citizen or not, they'll give you the driver's license
2020-08-23T05:58:29 < Cracki> and while you're there, you can reg to vote.
2020-08-23T05:58:43 < R2COM> if you lie you are a citizen its federal crime
2020-08-23T05:58:52 < Cracki> the form has a checkbox where you swear on your teddy bear that you aren't lying
2020-08-23T05:59:07 < Cracki> they never check that
2020-08-23T05:59:14 < Cracki> (check that you're telling the truth)
2020-08-23T05:59:20 < Cracki> if you're registered, you get to vote
2020-08-23T05:59:24 < R2COM> the voting system is highly rigged here by democrats
2020-08-23T05:59:25 < Cracki> they don't make you show any ID at the booth.
2020-08-23T05:59:29 < R2COM> those imbeciles tried it in 2016
2020-08-23T05:59:32 < R2COM> and yet failed lol
2020-08-23T05:59:49 < Cracki> they freak out if you show them any official id. they allow you to make up your own ID, even employee ID is better than official ID
2020-08-23T05:59:53 < R2COM> this time they wanna fuck up voting by mail
2020-08-23T06:00:05 < Cracki> yes everyone just send a thousand votes per mail
2020-08-23T06:00:09 < R2COM> yeah
2020-08-23T06:00:59 < R2COM> long ago in my mind americans = all smart, later on i discovered that nearly half of people here are degenerates and imbeciles voting for joe biden or obama
2020-08-23T06:01:20 < Cracki> btw, my "information" is second hand. I heard it from someone who spent some time in murica (years?) and who has friends that confirm things for him
2020-08-23T06:01:37 < Cracki> half of all people have double digit IQ
2020-08-23T06:01:43 < Cracki> and that's europe
2020-08-23T06:02:22 < Cracki> probably goes for rural murica too but forget cities
2020-08-23T06:02:57 < R2COM> nah lots of stupid people here
2020-08-23T06:03:33 < R2COM> but honestly europe also turns into shit
2020-08-23T06:03:37 < Cracki> it does
2020-08-23T06:04:00 < Cracki> it's a visible burden.
2020-08-23T06:04:05 < R2COM> i was few times in europe just for lolz
2020-08-23T06:04:15 < Cracki> the politicians are to blame.
2020-08-23T06:04:32 < R2COM> nah...people to blame
2020-08-23T06:04:38 < R2COM> if people are smart >90
2020-08-23T06:04:45 < R2COM> % they wont let stupid politicians to power
2020-08-23T06:04:46 < Cracki> honestly also most of the population, for being feeble-minded enough to eat up the propaganda
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2020-08-23T06:05:05 < R2COM> there are different levels of propaganda
2020-08-23T06:05:18 < R2COM> theres uber stupid propaganda which is like... for people with 1 brain cell
2020-08-23T06:05:19 < Cracki> the media, state/public and private
2020-08-23T06:05:24 < R2COM> but there smore advanced propaganda
2020-08-23T06:05:39 < R2COM> like on university levels by liberal schmuck professors etc
2020-08-23T06:05:47 < R2COM> or by some supposedly "concervative" media
2020-08-23T06:05:51 < R2COM> i call those 90/10
2020-08-23T06:06:09 < R2COM> 90 = proper stuff, but they pass 10% of leftist shit disguised inbetween of 90% proper stuff
2020-08-23T06:06:27 < R2COM> to steer away thinking from those who arent easily succeptible to really dumb propaganda
2020-08-23T06:06:27 < Cracki> they're always going for the children. teens and young adults are the most "juicy" because they aren't toddlers anymore and they can do a lot of things, but they're too mushy in the head to resist manipulation
2020-08-23T06:06:39 < R2COM> exactly
2020-08-23T06:06:51 < R2COM> here in USA school education is full shit
2020-08-23T06:06:59 < Cracki> ye i noticed that too, mostly above board, but slipping bullshit in here and there
2020-08-23T06:07:47 < R2COM> i am from commie country, i can smell this shit 5 miles away
2020-08-23T06:07:51 < Cracki> oh yesterday I saw, one school made their parents sign that they won't watch their kids' online classes, so the teachers can brainwash them without witnesses
2020-08-23T06:07:54 < R2COM> but most people here dont have such immunity lol
2020-08-23T06:08:07 < Cracki> ye europeans are ridiculous
2020-08-23T06:08:22 < Cracki> eastern germans have some immunity but not all that much
2020-08-23T06:08:29 < R2COM> if one raising kid in USA he must monitor him continuously
2020-08-23T06:08:34 < Cracki> western germans, lol nope
2020-08-23T06:09:14 < Cracki> best course of action, "vaccinate" against all the major thought viruses from even before elementary school
2020-08-23T06:09:53 < R2COM> when i was born i had those mandatory mega strong vaccines done... lol
2020-08-23T06:10:02 < Cracki> kids are so susceptible to emotional blackmail because their parents don't give them love anymore
2020-08-23T06:10:13 < Cracki> they're afraid if society won't love them they'll be all alone
2020-08-23T06:10:33 < Cracki> so they do the most retarded things to signal virtue and collect brownie points
2020-08-23T06:11:14 < Cracki> and society WILL cancel you for wrongthink. it's an abusive relationship.
2020-08-23T06:11:45 < R2COM> not so easy, there are many in society who think likewise and against all
2020-08-23T06:12:09 < R2COM> in fact, democrats/globalists having hard time now
2020-08-23T06:12:11 < R2COM> they are in agony
2020-08-23T06:12:24 < R2COM> which is reason they dont know what else to do rather than burn stores and loot shit
2020-08-23T06:12:27 < Cracki> tell me more, I have a sadist streak
2020-08-23T06:12:31 < R2COM> or destroy monuments
2020-08-23T06:12:41 < Cracki> oh those are just the figures on teh chess board
2020-08-23T06:12:49 < R2COM> well....
2020-08-23T06:12:50 < R2COM> no
2020-08-23T06:13:05 < R2COM> those who move those figures, instead of doing smart moves to win their war are doing dumb moves
2020-08-23T06:13:35 < Cracki> I guess I'm dumb because I think what they're doing is comparably smart
2020-08-23T06:13:37 < R2COM> its like...spitting in face of your enemy instead of masterfully defeating him
2020-08-23T06:13:43 < Cracki> slow boiling the frog
2020-08-23T06:14:09 < R2COM> no its not smart
2020-08-23T06:14:12 < Cracki> they're moving on multiple fronts. this is demoralization
2020-08-23T06:14:29 < Cracki> stressed animals in captivity stop reproducing
2020-08-23T06:15:15 < R2COM> people who mind their business and successful are not stressed
2020-08-23T06:15:23 < R2COM> and the more lefties are stressed the better
2020-08-23T06:15:27 < R2COM> they are hurting themselves
2020-08-23T06:15:28 < Cracki> in a animal (zoo or wild) a biologist would speak of "parasitic load", it's a chronic drain on the body, the body doesn't recover on its own
2020-08-23T06:15:46 < Cracki> well I like them to hurt themselves
2020-08-23T06:16:16 < R2COM> in fact now, there are more people who either one way or another were aligned with democrats are not going to vote democrat again
2020-08-23T06:16:32 < Cracki> but there are more "natural democrats" now too
2020-08-23T06:16:52 < Cracki> but I see your point, they're taking their masks off, showing their true faces
2020-08-23T06:17:01 < Cracki> and that's moving the votes
2020-08-23T06:17:13 < R2COM> one would do it only during agony realizing that long term battle is lost
2020-08-23T06:17:42 < Cracki> I don't think the republicans have any desire to fix the situation. they want to keep it up, they want to stay in power like all politicians.
2020-08-23T06:17:56 < R2COM> its humans who live on earth
2020-08-23T06:18:01 < R2COM> natural instincts will prevail
2020-08-23T06:18:19 < R2COM> honestly i dont think democratic system is good
2020-08-23T06:18:50 < R2COM> id go for some ....technocratic dictatorship assisted by mega advanced AI maybe or something like that
2020-08-23T06:19:01 < Cracki> my optimism only reaches as far as settling moon and mars and creating strong AI that can absorb our best morals and values and thinking, and take over
2020-08-23T06:19:04 < R2COM> most of people are stupid and you cant let them decide your fate
2020-08-23T06:19:21 < R2COM> theres nothing on mars or moon
2020-08-23T06:19:21 < Cracki> agreed, every vote is not equal.
2020-08-23T06:19:23 < R2COM> cant live there
2020-08-23T06:19:33 < Cracki> oh there will be
2020-08-23T06:19:43 < R2COM> not realistic
2020-08-23T06:20:03 < R2COM> id just go for mega station, parked on some planets orbit... and living there
2020-08-23T06:20:12 < Cracki> at least bases on the moon and mars would allow us to sterilize this planet with nice fat neutron bombs, and then start over
2020-08-23T06:20:16 < R2COM> need lots of materials to build it somehow
2020-08-23T06:20:29 < Cracki> hm well I'd weep for the ecosystem. maybe a nice bioengineered virus.
2020-08-23T06:20:38 < Cracki> something that doesn't affect bats preferably :>
2020-08-23T06:21:23 < R2COM> lol i saw some fun movie about hitler base on moon
2020-08-23T06:21:31 < Cracki> *groan*
2020-08-23T06:21:46 < Cracki> mad scientist uses iphone to run Reichsflugscheibe
2020-08-23T06:22:19 < R2COM> damn its evening now
2020-08-23T06:22:23 < R2COM> im going to bed early these days
2020-08-23T06:22:27 < R2COM> and getting up at 6am
2020-08-23T06:23:04 < Cracki> star trek TNG had an episode about an engineered society (smallish colony). they picked the brightest minds and sent them off for a century or so. they couldn't hope to compete with the scientific progress of the federation
2020-08-23T06:23:24 < Cracki> I was forced to bed early sometimes because fucking wasps were invading my home
2020-08-23T06:23:39 < Cracki> can't stay up in darkness
2020-08-23T06:24:03 < R2COM> Cracki maybe we should send you and some blonde german girl very far in space on some planet, and there you will reproduce in super race like Adam and Eve
2020-08-23T06:24:14 < Cracki> all these eco hippies love to bang the drum that these buggers are protected and there are fines upto 50k EUR if you kill one etc
2020-08-23T06:25:27 < Cracki> they omit the "upto", they omit that only a few rare and polite species are actively protected, and the pest species are only protected as all animals are, and if you have a "good reason" for killing them, no fine
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2020-08-23T06:26:15 < Cracki> heh maybe but before you can do that you need to give me brain washing powers
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2020-08-23T06:28:01 < Cracki> I may be above median in terms of world-average genetics but probably below european average
2020-08-23T06:29:06 < R2COM> my genetics is strong, i can creampie a black woman and make her deliver a 100% white baby
2020-08-23T06:29:42 < Cracki> uhhhh I'll believe you, no need to prove it
2020-08-23T06:30:39 < Cracki> time to yawn. good night and don't let the channel ops bite
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2020-08-23T06:55:07 < aandrew> R2COM: lol
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2020-08-23T17:30:59 < Steffanx> *crickets*
2020-08-23T17:47:01 < R2COM> i wonder if its better just doing it this way to tie member function for specific actions and interrupt handler:
2020-08-23T17:47:03 < R2COM> https://paste.ofcode.org/Ujvps7dzhDA72XFVcjw8hb
2020-08-23T17:47:21 < R2COM> in aboive example the TIM1_CC_IRQHandler is one of many interrupt functions from .vectors
2020-08-23T17:47:46 < R2COM> and lets say CInterrupt class has some member function tim1int() which takes whatever appropriate action
2020-08-23T17:48:10 < aandrew> what are you trying to do?
2020-08-23T17:52:03 < aandrew> I'm percolating the idea of using a simple R2R DAC-driven current mirror to provide a programmable constant current to a thermistor, and then the voltage developed across the termistor feeding the + end of an LVDS RX with the - end connected to either another R2R DAC or a 1.2V vref (maybe DAC to help keep the LVDS RX exactly where I want it for repeatable threshold
2020-08-23T17:52:25 < aandrew> for one thermistor it doesn't make much sense, but if I x16 this it starts looking very interesting
2020-08-23T17:57:27 < R2COM> i thought its pretty clear what im doing from 1st sentence i wrote now
2020-08-23T17:57:39 < R2COM> tie interrupt handler to class member function
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2020-08-23T18:06:23 < aandrew> "i wonder if its better just doing it this way to tie member function for specific actions and interrupt handler"
2020-08-23T18:06:36 < aandrew> not really no. zero context about the interrupt or what exactly you're doing 
2020-08-23T18:06:53 < aandrew> it'll be a static class member so what's the difference from any other function in C
2020-08-23T18:08:10 < R2COM> its ok just ignore
2020-08-23T18:09:09 < Steffanx> Also what is better? More clean code? Faster... ? When it comes to clean(er) i think zyp's "subscriber"  way was nice.
2020-08-23T18:15:35 < aandrew> I guess I have to scroll back for that
2020-08-23T18:16:05 < Steffanx> not really aandrew
2020-08-23T18:16:40 < Steffanx> That earlier discussion is totally unrelated
2020-08-23T18:33:49 < zyp> Steffanx, I don't think I like my way :)
2020-08-23T18:33:54 < zyp> I don't use it myself
2020-08-23T18:34:28 < zyp> in actual projects I make wrappers manually
2020-08-23T18:35:15 < zyp> e.g. like this: https://cgit.jvnv.net/arcin/tree/arcin/main.cpp?id=8d37e2d#n145
2020-08-23T18:46:22 < aandrew> you guys and your fancy embedded C++
2020-08-23T18:49:58 < R2COM> zyp any comments on snippet i showed?
2020-08-23T18:52:15 < Steffanx> I did like it zyp :P
2020-08-23T18:55:23 < Steffanx> But i cannot find the code I used it. -_-
2020-08-23T18:55:29 < Steffanx> It in*
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2020-08-23T19:00:49 < R2COM> im actually not liking it, i don
2020-08-23T19:00:57 < R2COM> dont think i want extra runtime cost
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2020-08-23T19:05:07 < R2COM> or i can just store in vector table class member functions
2020-08-23T19:05:14 < R2COM> will try
2020-08-23T19:05:41 < mawk> you have to like C++, aandrew 
2020-08-23T19:05:45 < mawk> it's in the natural order of things
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2020-08-23T19:07:54 < aandrew> no thanks
2020-08-23T19:08:58 < R2COM> c++ is used in F35 JSF, so if used properly, can be successful in all of your afro projects as well
2020-08-23T19:09:09 < Cracki> lol
2020-08-23T19:09:30 < R2COM> well i mean yeah, there is even recommendation on how to properly use it
2020-08-23T19:09:32 < R2COM> https://www.stroustrup.com/JSF-AV-rules.pdf
2020-08-23T19:10:44 < R2COM> hopefully you wont overflow stack in the middle of dodging S300's missile
2020-08-23T19:11:24 < Cracki> >• limit hardware and external software interfaces to a small number of functions, 
2020-08-23T19:11:34 < Cracki> bright idea: peek(), poke(). done :D
2020-08-23T19:11:58 < Cracki> the best guidelines don't survive contact with the workforce
2020-08-23T19:12:30 < GenTooMan> in theory things should work but reality tends to prove theory is just that theory.
2020-08-23T19:12:53 < Cracki> AV Rule 1, that's quite sensible
2020-08-23T19:15:55 < Cracki> boo no trigraphs
2020-08-23T19:20:05 < specing> R2COM: you mean the same airplane plagued by failures and requiring reboots mid-air?
2020-08-23T19:21:09 < R2COM> if your iq and overall world situational awareness were higher, you'd know that all dev hurdles are already passed and this plane is operational and used multiple times already with great success
2020-08-23T19:22:07 < specing> ah, you mean that you don't have an argument and have to resort to ad hominems? Further validates my point
2020-08-23T19:22:29 < Cracki> > By 2014, the program was "US$163 billion over budget [and] seven years behind schedule".[8]
2020-08-23T19:22:34 < Steffanx> I love you Mr Are2Commie always goes into insult mode directly 
2020-08-23T19:23:19 < R2COM> no, i mean that you are lazy to even google, cuz if you did you'd see its operational and its already used against syrian targets by israel successfully bypassing syrian s300V SAM
2020-08-23T19:23:36 < Cracki> they had issues on the hardware/mechanical side too. >Flight tests revealed several serious deficiencies that required costly redesigns, caused delays, and resulted in several fleet-wide groundings. In 2011, the F-35C failed to catch the arresting wire in all eight landing tests; a redesigned tail hook was delivered two years later
2020-08-23T19:23:54 < R2COM> why you bringing what issues were in 2011?
2020-08-23T19:24:09 < Steffanx> Now i look at my code I see i mainly used your method as well zyp. Heh
2020-08-23T19:24:59 < R2COM> by 2018 all was ready and they already been used in real combat
2020-08-23T19:25:45 < R2COM> heck i even talked with some F35 pilots during some show on airbase ~20 mins away from my house, and they told me AF is actively preparing and recruiting pilots
2020-08-23T19:25:59 < specing> Imagine how much medicine we could develop for $163 billion...
2020-08-23T19:26:15 < R2COM> F35 *is* a medicine
2020-08-23T19:26:19 < Cracki> "we're recruiting", they said that about seats on the guillotine during the french revolution too :D
2020-08-23T19:26:39 < specing> R2COM: it doesen't help people in any way
2020-08-23T19:26:45 < Cracki> >Software was repeatedly delayed due to its unprecedented scope and complexity.
2020-08-23T19:26:48 < Cracki> so project management fail
2020-08-23T19:27:17 < R2COM> well its difficult project, and it didnt complete as fast as planned but it did complete and final product is operational
2020-08-23T19:27:21 < Cracki> specing, it helps the israeli airforce?
2020-08-23T19:27:31 < R2COM> it helps the US airforce
2020-08-23T19:27:40 < specing> it helps kill people
2020-08-23T19:27:42 < Cracki> you didn't say that, you said israel used it
2020-08-23T19:27:46 < specing> it doesen't help people
2020-08-23T19:27:58 < Cracki> are you saying they shouldn't have it?
2020-08-23T19:27:59 < mawk> it helps people that want to kill people
2020-08-23T19:28:17 < R2COM> if someone enters your house specing, with intent to kill you, are you going to retaliate against him or help him?
2020-08-23T19:28:26 < Cracki> it's conceivable that there are people that need to be killed
2020-08-23T19:28:34 < specing> Cracki: I'm saying that we should focus on improving everyone instead of killing eachother
2020-08-23T19:28:49 < R2COM> specing your populistic pacifist statements are not changing world
2020-08-23T19:28:55 < mawk> lol
2020-08-23T19:28:56 < R2COM> just adding more greta thumberg like noise
2020-08-23T19:28:57 < mawk> poor specing 
2020-08-23T19:29:08 < specing> R2COM: If someone does that I'm going to shoot an S400 at them, not flatten their house 10000km away
2020-08-23T19:29:10 < R2COM> or thunberg...whatver her name
2020-08-23T19:29:28 < mawk> it's a quantum fluctuation of bad luck that brought R2COM and Cracki together against specing being the single pacifist in the room
2020-08-23T19:29:41 < Cracki> oh I'm a conditional pacifist
2020-08-23T19:29:58 < Cracki> I'm also pro-life and pro-choice depending on the situation
2020-08-23T19:30:28 < mawk> I have to be pro choice, otherwise I'd be a father already and that would suck
2020-08-23T19:30:41 < Cracki> I'm quite flexible in that regard. they teach you doublethink but YOU decide what to doublethink about
2020-08-23T19:31:00 < R2COM> specing, simple example, in ukraine some people got bombed by nearby country, cuz that nearby country is more advanced weapon-wise; should it have such grade weapons as F35/or insert anything/ it wouldnt have happen
2020-08-23T19:31:03 < R2COM> makes sense now?
2020-08-23T19:31:26 < mawk> so you want weapons to sit around in garages to not use them
2020-08-23T19:31:29 < mawk> but just disuassion
2020-08-23T19:31:38 < mawk> then build nuclear weapons, not useless aircrafts
2020-08-23T19:31:46 < Cracki> just give everyone nukes. use them every new years eve to practice.
2020-08-23T19:31:52 < mawk> lol
2020-08-23T19:32:24 < R2COM> im skeptical about nukes
2020-08-23T19:32:49 < Cracki> you'd be surprised what countries have nukes (and what countries don't)
2020-08-23T19:33:06 < mawk> france proudly helped israël built his own nuke against the will of USA
2020-08-23T19:33:15 < mawk> USA wanted to give us both USA-controlled nukes that required their approval to use
2020-08-23T19:33:23 < specing> R2COM: tell me, were they bombed using S300 or by airplanes?
2020-08-23T19:33:23 < Cracki> there are countries that could bomb their enemies and nobody would retaliate, not even the big powers
2020-08-23T19:33:36 < specing> R2COM: airplanes are offensive weapons, used by offensive sides
2020-08-23T19:33:40 < specing> they aren't defensive
2020-08-23T19:34:03 < R2COM> specing, they were bombed using "smerch" weapon system. F35 could fly in and take it out *before* it driven to position to release missiles
2020-08-23T19:34:36 < R2COM> if intelligence reports and shows real time of systems like smerch, or "uragan" advancing and getting ready to launch, you send F35 flying low and fast to eliminate it
2020-08-23T19:35:20 < specing> R2COM: no, you have nuclear detterence
2020-08-23T19:35:26 < specing> it's the only way to peace
2020-08-23T19:35:32 < R2COM> ukraine has no nukes
2020-08-23T19:35:40 < R2COM> not many countries have it
2020-08-23T19:35:42 < specing> every country should have nukes
2020-08-23T19:35:43 < Cracki> having nukes doesn't prevent "smaller" aggressions. everything is smaller compared to a nuke.
2020-08-23T19:35:47 < specing> then there'd be no wars any more
2020-08-23T19:35:56 < Cracki> lol
2020-08-23T19:36:12 < Cracki> nukes prevent nukes. nukes don't prevent other war crimes.
2020-08-23T19:36:23 < Cracki> or even war.
2020-08-23T19:36:25 < R2COM> ^
2020-08-23T19:36:27 < R2COM> exactly
2020-08-23T19:36:37 < Cracki> just like nerve gas. you have nerve gas so you can use if if the enemy deploys it first.
2020-08-23T19:37:28 < Cracki> but if they don't, you just have, say, 12000 tons of tabun sitting around
2020-08-23T19:38:44 < specing> Cracki: or you use it first and then pretend that the enemy used it first
2020-08-23T19:39:06 < specing> then let the propaganda networks battle it out
2020-08-23T19:39:10 < Cracki> but then you HAVE TO win the war so you can write the history books
2020-08-23T19:39:28 < Steffanx> lol now i heard "BUT HE STARTED"  in a kids voice.
2020-08-23T19:39:54 < Cracki> politics is just that.
2020-08-23T19:40:11 < Cracki> starting shit and shifting blame because you can.
2020-08-23T19:40:15 < Steffanx> Sadly, yes.
2020-08-23T19:40:23 < Cracki> guillotines need to make a comeback
2020-08-23T19:40:30 < R2COM> nukes are "big bombs", you do not use "big bombs" to eliminate home invader and take off half of your house and harm innocents around, you use other special tools, so F35 is just one of such tools
2020-08-23T19:40:37 < R2COM> no need to discuss further
2020-08-23T19:40:44 < Cracki> the media are even worse than politicians
2020-08-23T19:41:12 < Cracki> project plowshare: micronukes for dentistry
2020-08-23T19:41:47 < Cracki> it will revolutionize fishing! imagine if your uncle ed didn't have to dick around with sticks of dynamite anymore!
2020-08-23T19:42:17 < R2COM> i dont think its legal in many places to fish with dynamite
2020-08-23T19:42:32 < Steffanx> Electroshocking is hot though.
2020-08-23T19:42:45 < Cracki> nuclear diplomacy. use a typewriter with a micronuke-drenched ribbon to type contracts.
2020-08-23T19:43:10 < Cracki> one false key and you're toast. how's that for biting your tongue.
2020-08-23T19:43:41 < Cracki> death chambers with electrified floors, I heard stories about that
2020-08-23T19:43:53 < Cracki> must have come out of hollywood I'm sure
2020-08-23T19:44:00 < mawk> some extended family member electrocuted when fishing when his line touched the 250kV line
2020-08-23T19:44:07 < mawk> now he's a vegetable
2020-08-23T19:44:25 < con3> fuck man the world is scary
2020-08-23T19:44:32 < mawk> I think the family is just waiting for euthanasy laws
2020-08-23T19:44:48 < con3> one day you go fishing the next your dead
2020-08-23T19:44:59 < Cracki> this is why I'm not a vegetarian. I'm against cannibalism.
2020-08-23T19:45:14 < mawk> lol
2020-08-23T19:45:17 < Cracki> (implying I'm a vegetable *facepalm*)
2020-08-23T19:45:27 < mawk> you're against cannibalism for others
2020-08-23T19:45:38 < Cracki> cannibalism for the but not for me
2020-08-23T19:45:41 < Cracki> *thee
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2020-08-23T19:46:12 < Cracki> marie antoinette is to have said "let them eat relatives"
2020-08-23T19:47:04 < Steffanx> oh, i read "and the next day you're dad" . THAT would be scary indead, con3
2020-08-23T19:47:39 < Cracki> the world needs more dads
2020-08-23T19:48:22 < Mangy_Dog> https://www.therpf.com/forums/threads/my-working-stargate-miniature.328766/page-3#post-5104512
2020-08-23T19:50:07 < Cracki> art attack
2020-08-23T19:51:05 < R2COM> anyway, its totally fine to use c++ properly in  embedded
2020-08-23T19:51:30 < R2COM> getting back to work
2020-08-23T19:51:31 < Cracki> sure it's fine, if it weren't we'd all have to use ada and almost nobody wants that
2020-08-23T19:51:40 < R2COM> no
2020-08-23T19:51:54 < R2COM> we don't want underdeveloped language
2020-08-23T19:52:28 < R2COM> ada is failed attempt
2020-08-23T19:52:59 < R2COM> just develop guidelines on "proper c++" and good to go
2020-08-23T19:53:15 < R2COM> maybe in future add some smarter checks in compiler, dunno
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2020-08-23T20:32:05 < Steffanx> Hmmm, since when does jlcpcb have the option to remove the order number from the pcb? (or to not have it there in the first place)
2020-08-23T20:32:24 < zyp> dunno, it's been there for as long as I've looked at their price calc
2020-08-23T20:33:12 < Steffanx> ive never seen it before lol
2020-08-23T20:38:25 < Cracki> they've had that for a while but I think it's only an option if they can put it on a panel instead
2020-08-23T20:59:20 < R2COM> ill keep isr's simple and c++ stuff will be used around other places
2020-08-23T21:01:13 < jpa-> the help page for "remove order number" has updated december 2019, so maybe there has been some changes then
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2020-08-23T22:14:27 < invzim> damn you paypal for not telling me I was eligible for "merchant rates" months ago
2020-08-23T22:15:00 < Mangy_Dog> paypal keep telling me im elegable for credit
2020-08-23T22:15:15 < Mangy_Dog> in fact they dont stop telling me
2020-08-23T22:15:16 < Mangy_Dog> over and over
2020-08-23T22:15:22 < Mangy_Dog> and i might be a little duink
2020-08-23T22:15:29 < Mangy_Dog> drunk
2020-08-23T22:15:50 < Mangy_Dog> just had a rather decent sized glass of rum on an empty stomac
2020-08-23T22:15:52 < invzim> maybe you should accept :)
2020-08-23T22:16:09 < zyp> yeah, best time to buy shit on credit
2020-08-23T22:16:17 < Mangy_Dog> pft i dont have enough money to allow my self into debt
2020-08-23T22:16:29 < zyp> you don't need money when you've got credit
2020-08-23T22:16:57 < Mangy_Dog> but ill need the money later
2020-08-23T22:17:22 < zyp> if you worry about that now, you're not drunk enough
2020-08-23T22:17:30 < Mangy_Dog> lol
2020-08-23T22:17:42 < Mangy_Dog> btw its my birthday its the only time i allow myself to drink when im alone
2020-08-23T22:17:49 < zyp> congrats :)
2020-08-23T22:18:00 < invzim> happy birthday!
2020-08-23T22:18:50 < Mangy_Dog> thanks
2020-08-23T22:19:07 < Mangy_Dog> iuts strange im physically drunk......
2020-08-23T22:19:21 < Mangy_Dog> but my mentalcapacity i preytty normal
2020-08-23T22:19:26 < Mangy_Dog> apart from the inability to type
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2020-08-23T22:20:19 < zyp> well…
2020-08-23T22:20:32 < Mangy_Dog> i dont drink that oftern
2020-08-23T22:20:35 < Mangy_Dog> no social life
2020-08-23T22:25:13 < zyp> do you really trust your judgement of your mental capacity when you've been drinking? :)
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2020-08-23T22:39:52 < Steffanx> haha lol
2020-08-23T22:40:26 < Steffanx> You cannot ask him right now zyp..
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2020-08-23T23:01:38 < Steffanx> and happy birth mr Mangy_Dog :D
2020-08-23T23:04:17 < Mangy_Dog> thankies
2020-08-23T23:06:36 < Cracki> omfg "firmata", the thing to put on arduinos to make pins generically controllable hostside, doesn't even support setting pwm frequency
2020-08-23T23:10:58 < Steffanx> Lol
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2020-08-24T00:47:22 < qyx> doesn't look much generic
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2020-08-24T01:21:26 < Mangy_Dog> eaten watched knives out.... and now feeling a lot more sober.... and a bit sick D:
2020-08-24T01:23:15 < Steffanx> Should have watched The Hangover instead?
2020-08-24T01:33:58 < Mangy_Dog> shouldnt have drank a glass of neat rum
2020-08-24T01:33:58 < Mangy_Dog> :/
2020-08-24T01:34:05 < Mangy_Dog> esp a rum i opened first 1 year ago
2020-08-24T01:34:15 < Mangy_Dog> on an empty stomac
2020-08-24T01:35:30 < Steffanx> You will survive it Mangy_Dog 
2020-08-24T01:36:38 < Mangy_Dog> certainly
2020-08-24T01:36:43 < Mangy_Dog> just dont want to feel sick right now
2020-08-24T01:36:44 < Mangy_Dog>  :/
2020-08-24T01:36:50 < Mangy_Dog> i have birthday caje
2020-08-24T01:36:52 < Mangy_Dog> cake
2020-08-24T01:37:04 < Mangy_Dog> but i think im going to have to put it off till tomorrow
2020-08-24T01:37:05 < Mangy_Dog> to have it
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2020-08-24T03:13:54 < ds2> US news sites like abc is just so beyond useless
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2020-08-24T04:34:35 < R2COM> either im using it wrong or class template argument deduction (c++ 17 feature) doesnt work for me
2020-08-24T04:35:00 < R2COM> for example i have this file (its just start file for something im about to build further, but now it doesnt matter much, just couple things for example)
2020-08-24T04:35:02 < R2COM> https://paste.ofcode.org/7yHkJkJvwmse3B7imQ4aic
2020-08-24T04:35:12 < R2COM> theres some class enum IRQ
2020-08-24T04:35:20 < R2COM> and theres also templated class with one example function
2020-08-24T04:35:35 < R2COM> that function receives something of templated type and returns casted value
2020-08-24T04:35:36 < R2COM> so
2020-08-24T04:35:42 < R2COM> for example in my main file if i do this:
2020-08-24T04:35:50 < R2COM> a = CNvic<cm0::nvic::IRQ>::EnableIrq(cm0::nvic::IRQ::RTC); // OK!
2020-08-24T04:35:53 < R2COM> it works OK!
2020-08-24T04:36:14 < R2COM> a equals 2 (why 2? cuz i passed IRQ::RTC which is sequential to 2)
2020-08-24T04:36:16 < R2COM> now
2020-08-24T04:36:19 < R2COM> given that it works
2020-08-24T04:36:26 < R2COM> i wanna use CTAD feature 
2020-08-24T04:36:28 < R2COM> and do this:
2020-08-24T04:36:35 < R2COM> a = CNvic::EnableIrq(cm0::nvic::IRQ::RTC);
2020-08-24T04:36:37 < R2COM> ^
2020-08-24T04:36:41 < R2COM> but that does *not* work
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2020-08-24T04:36:52 < R2COM> "error: 'template<class IRQ_t> class CNvic' used without template arguments"
2020-08-24T04:37:29 < R2COM> for CTAD the arguments of specific type must be provided, and it figures out type on its own (so that i dont havbe to do it as before with longer code)
2020-08-24T04:37:54 < R2COM> as you can see arguments for member function were provided, yet it throws error and says its used wiuthout template arguments
2020-08-24T04:39:26 < R2COM> (and yes i did mention gnu++17 in my scons build instructions)
2020-08-24T04:40:20 < R2COM> fuck what am i missing
2020-08-24T04:48:01 < R2COM> but
2020-08-24T04:48:03 < R2COM> if i do this:
2020-08-24T04:48:09 < R2COM> CNvic<cm0::nvic::IRQ> nv;
2020-08-24T04:48:15 < R2COM> a = nv.EnableIrq(cm0::nvic::IRQ::RTC); // OK!
2020-08-24T04:48:17 < R2COM> ^
2020-08-24T04:48:19 < R2COM> that one works
2020-08-24T04:48:47 < R2COM> then CTAD works... seems that it was mad at me cuz i tried it while trying to explicitly call class member function... but why..
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2020-08-24T04:59:58 < R2COM> but also, if i just do: CNvic nv;
2020-08-24T05:00:11 < R2COM> and then:           a = nv.EnableIrq(cm0::nvic::IRQ::RTC); 
2020-08-24T05:00:13 < R2COM> ^
2020-08-24T05:00:50 < R2COM> that doesnt work., since it says: "template argument deduction/substitution failed:"
2020-08-24T05:02:35 < R2COM> its bug maybe cuz of new feature?
2020-08-24T05:02:37 < R2COM> https://gcc.gnu.org/bugzilla/show_bug.cgi?id=87709
2020-08-24T05:02:39 < R2COM> ^ ??
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2020-08-24T05:19:59 < R2COM> ah
2020-08-24T05:20:01 < R2COM> no
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2020-08-24T08:22:43 < R2COM> i could also declare it this way:
2020-08-24T08:22:44 < R2COM> https://paste.ofcode.org/GiDgFPFh6syZcB5BnWJ7j6
2020-08-24T08:22:51 < R2COM> and then do this:
2020-08-24T08:22:53 < R2COM> a = CNvic<cm0::nvic::IRQ>::EnableIrq(cm0::nvic::IRQ::RTC); // OK!
2020-08-24T08:23:15 < R2COM> (im just working on foundation for some framework for own version of CMSIS)
2020-08-24T08:23:30 < R2COM> and just running various things...trying to see what would be more elegant
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2020-08-24T10:34:48 < dongs> > elegant
2020-08-24T10:34:49 < dongs> > C++
2020-08-24T10:34:50 < dongs> pick one
2020-08-24T10:35:19 < dongs> who besides panasonic and alps makes tactile buttons
2020-08-24T10:35:22 < dongs> tryin to see who chinks cloned
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2020-08-24T11:58:27 < karlp> wurth?
2020-08-24T11:58:43 < karlp> though possibly just euro oem'd
2020-08-24T12:00:17 < karlp> schurter
2020-08-24T12:03:03 < benishor> jadew`: the tweezers arrived at the specified time
2020-08-24T12:03:14 < benishor> so distrelec rocks
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2020-08-24T13:06:58 < Mangy_Dog> well good news, no hangover
2020-08-24T13:09:00 < Steffanx> Just COVID-19?
2020-08-24T13:11:44 < Mangy_Dog> lol
2020-08-24T13:11:46 < Mangy_Dog> na the rum
2020-08-24T13:11:54 < Mangy_Dog> oh wait
2020-08-24T13:11:55 < Mangy_Dog> i get you
2020-08-24T13:11:56 < Mangy_Dog> yeah
2020-08-24T13:11:59 < Mangy_Dog>  *cough cough*
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2020-08-24T14:24:04 < zyp> Mangy_Dog, no new credits either? :)
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2020-08-24T14:51:42 < benishor> fifteen men on a dead man's chest
2020-08-24T14:51:57 < benishor> yo-ho-ho and a bottle of rum
2020-08-24T14:57:55 < Steffanx> Is that you Jack?
2020-08-24T15:01:19 < Mangy_Dog> new credits?
2020-08-24T15:02:12 < Mangy_Dog> zyp
2020-08-24T15:13:50 < zyp> yeah, we talked about making irresponsible purchases last night
2020-08-24T15:14:04 < zyp> but you didn't appear drunk enough to make any
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2020-08-24T15:22:22 < Steffanx> How often you did that mr zyp?
2020-08-24T15:23:10 < zyp> irresponsible purchases?
2020-08-24T15:23:15 < zyp> nothing really comes to mind
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2020-08-24T15:31:49 < Steffanx> While drunk.
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2020-08-24T15:38:49 < zyp> hmm, I don't think I've really been drunk in four years or so
2020-08-24T15:40:15 < zyp> I don't drink very often and when I do I usually only have a couple of beers or so
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2020-08-24T15:42:55 < jadew`> benishor, neat, what are your initial thoughts on the tweezers?
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2020-08-24T15:43:11 < jadew`> I just remembered I dreamed about tweezers last night, lol
2020-08-24T15:43:30 < jadew`> each tweezers I was picking up, was not the one I was looking for
2020-08-24T15:44:14 < jadew`> they all had that tiny foot on the tip
2020-08-24T15:44:23 < jadew`> *dreamt
2020-08-24T15:46:02 < Mangy_Dog> did we have that conversation last night :o
2020-08-24T15:46:04 < Mangy_Dog> i dont remember that
2020-08-24T15:46:10 < Mangy_Dog> i did however order a valve index D:
2020-08-24T15:46:31 < jadew`> weren't you eyballing the G2?
2020-08-24T15:46:36 < jadew`> *eyeballing
2020-08-24T15:46:42 < Mangy_Dog> yeah
2020-08-24T15:46:50 < Mangy_Dog> but even thouth the g2 was a better headset
2020-08-24T15:46:54 < Mangy_Dog> display and lense wise
2020-08-24T15:47:00 < Mangy_Dog> i really didnt want inside out tracking
2020-08-24T15:47:03 < Mangy_Dog> and i wanted knuckles
2020-08-24T15:47:55 < jadew`> right, they come with those nice controllers
2020-08-24T15:48:23 < jadew`> is the IPD adjustable?
2020-08-24T15:48:43 < jadew`> I need something that does 55-57 mm IPD
2020-08-24T15:48:52 < Mangy_Dog> the index?
2020-08-24T15:48:55 < Mangy_Dog> im pretty certain it is
2020-08-24T15:48:56 < jadew`> yeah
2020-08-24T15:50:34 < Mangy_Dog> im just hoping the lower quality display doesnt get to me
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2020-08-24T17:36:50 < karlp> good news, mos1.6.12 works fine with lws 4.1-rc2, 
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2020-08-24T17:43:07 < karlp> hrm, wrong window
2020-08-24T17:43:17 < karlp> more for this window, wurth pcb _charges_ for silkscreen
2020-08-24T17:43:26 < karlp> but enig is cheaper than hasl-leadfree!
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2020-08-24T17:57:42 < zyp> heh
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2020-08-24T18:19:47 < mawk> eh Steffanx 
2020-08-24T18:19:58 < mawk> the coding style looks like this "stuff( foo, bar )"
2020-08-24T18:20:25 < mawk> I sent a message to the boss to say I'm going to kill myself if I have to write code like this
2020-08-24T18:20:28 < mawk> so he said "change it"
2020-08-24T18:20:43 < mawk> moral of the story, always try to bypass the direct superior and go flatter the ego of the highest one
2020-08-24T18:22:49 -!- Netsplit *.net <-> *.split quits: flatmush, diamondman, PaulFertser
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2020-08-24T18:28:17 < Steffanx> What should it  be mawk ?
2020-08-24T18:28:31 < mawk> stuff(foo, bar)
2020-08-24T18:28:32 < mawk> of cours
2020-08-24T18:28:35 < mawk> e
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2020-08-24T18:32:43 < Cracki> lol
2020-08-24T18:33:01 < Cracki> what retard came up with the original "style"
2020-08-24T18:33:06 < R2COM> dont let boss to micromanage you unless you sure 100% he knows stuff much better than you
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2020-08-24T18:34:05 < mawk> maybe in 1980 with blurry CRT screens it would've made sense Cracki 
2020-08-24T18:34:08 < mawk> but I'm not even sure
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2020-08-24T18:34:21 < mawk> I'm not even sure we had screens in 1980
2020-08-24T18:34:38 < Cracki> i mean... in python I sometimes put spaces inside of [] or {} when they're comprehensions and they're a bit much... but rarely
2020-08-24T18:35:01 < Cracki> 1980 crts had color already
2020-08-24T18:35:34 < Cracki> computers maybe not but tvs, and I think there must have been computers that could hook up to TVs and do color
2020-08-24T18:35:57 < Cracki> cute https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/IBM_PCjr
2020-08-24T18:36:24 < Cracki> oh, that one institute at this uni is very fucked. their head honcho demands 80 chars per line max
2020-08-24T18:36:36 < Cracki> because the last time he wrote code was 20 years ago or something
2020-08-24T18:37:04 < Cracki> all his minions mock him for it but they still slave away at his tower of babel
2020-08-24T18:37:23 < Cracki> https://www.commodorecomputerclub.com/1980s-childhood-c64-sears-color-monitor-found-30-years-later/
2020-08-24T18:38:07 < R2COM> another way im thinking of doing the CMSIS driver:
2020-08-24T18:38:08 < R2COM> https://paste.ofcode.org/F6EhVGyhu2qhs3D2KTvUcZ
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2020-08-24T18:38:22 < R2COM> and then this works:   a = cm0::nvic::EnableIrq(cm0::nvic::IRQ::RTC);
2020-08-24T18:38:52 < R2COM> i guess for cmsis stuff i dont have to organize all in class, just namespace with templated functions for settings ISRs etc
2020-08-24T18:41:22 < R2COM> latter solution template gave 8 byte less code than previous 
2020-08-24T18:43:05 < zyp> what's the benefit of having a cm0 namespace?
2020-08-24T18:47:11 < R2COM> later on i plan to pack all stuff cortex related to cm0 namespace for clarity
2020-08-24T18:47:25 < R2COM> i.e. all processor stuff dealing with nvic/scb etc is cm0::blah()
2020-08-24T18:47:56 < mawk> if you have functions with same name but similar function when a different processor than a namespace is good
2020-08-24T18:47:59 < mawk> you don't need class yeah
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2020-08-24T18:56:41 < zyp> most of the core-related stuff is fairly common across the cm0/cm3/cm4/cm7, doesn't make much sense making a namespace for every cm family with a copy of the same function
2020-08-24T18:57:00 < zyp> and it's also a maintenance hassle
2020-08-24T18:57:24 < R2COM> but at some point if ill do some cm4 ill have to change file anyway
2020-08-24T18:57:41 < zyp> why?
2020-08-24T18:57:52 < R2COM> to modify struct typedef for regs etc
2020-08-24T18:58:00 < R2COM> for other stuff which is not cm0 but cm4 lets say
2020-08-24T18:58:47 < zyp> as far as I've seen it's all subset/superset, so you can just do the superset and just use whatever is available
2020-08-24T18:59:16 < zyp> just like stm32 timers
2020-08-24T18:59:33 < zyp> I don't have different structs for TIM1 and TIM2 despite TIM1 having more registers
2020-08-24T18:59:52 < zyp> I use the same struct for all timers
2020-08-24T19:31:26 < Steffanx> This reminds me of someone here using timers that weren't physically available, but it all compiled perfectly. ;)
2020-08-24T19:32:28 < karlp> that was worse, they were avialable on _some packages_ of the part
2020-08-24T19:32:37 < karlp> or only one density of the part or something
2020-08-24T19:32:39 < karlp> qyx iirc
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2020-08-24T19:43:33 < R2COM> yeah i guess ill do it that way too
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2020-08-24T20:40:26 < qyx_> yes me
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2020-08-24T21:25:11 < Steffanx> yes you indeed, but i didnt want to call you out :P
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2020-08-24T22:14:27 < zyp> density, I believe, not package
2020-08-24T22:14:44 < zyp> package doesn't make sense since they are still the same die
2020-08-24T22:15:10 < zyp> but different densities are mostly different dies, although exceptions exist there as well :)
2020-08-24T22:19:06 < jpa-> i wonder if that packages vs. die varies; on STM32H743 when i tried to use gpio pin that does not exist on package, even simple stuff like GPIO ODR to GPIO IDR didn't work
2020-08-24T22:19:40 < jpa-> i guess it could be lasered out to save power or something
2020-08-24T22:19:56 < zyp> I mean, it obviously could if it makes financial sense or something
2020-08-24T22:20:28 < jpa-> true
2020-08-24T22:20:44 < jpa-> with so many pins on the biggest ones, maybe they have two different die types
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2020-08-24T22:58:18 < Steffanx> hm
2020-08-24T22:59:11 < antto> hm^2
2020-08-24T22:59:46 < Steffanx> Sup mr antto
2020-08-24T23:00:18 < antto> installing debian
2020-08-24T23:00:50 < antto> oh, you mean "what's up"
2020-08-24T23:00:51 < Steffanx> Hmm, need a duck?
2020-08-24T23:00:58 < antto> ceiling spoodrmans
2020-08-24T23:01:26 -!- boB_K7IQ [~boB_K7IQ@152.44.147.180] has joined ##stm32
2020-08-24T23:01:30 < antto> nah, installing debian is a smooth process
2020-08-24T23:01:46 < antto> no need for rubber ducks and pocket-sized bibles
2020-08-24T23:03:47 < Steffanx> hm
2020-08-24T23:05:28 < Cracki> rubber bibles and pocket ducks
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2020-08-24T23:09:16 < ds2> a 20lb sledge is still required 
2020-08-24T23:11:07 < mawk> what's the bible for ?
2020-08-24T23:11:44  * ds2 glances at the bsd ...
2020-08-24T23:15:07 < Steffanx> Did you ever read it mawk?
2020-08-24T23:15:24 < mawk> yes of course Steffanx 
2020-08-24T23:15:29 < mawk> I know it reasonably well
2020-08-24T23:15:41 < mawk> you need to know your enemy
2020-08-24T23:16:31 < antto> mawk, those two things i say are all you need for tackling unknown engineering problems
2020-08-24T23:16:51 < antto> muh collegues at $job are pretty much all engineers
2020-08-24T23:17:08 < mawk> I'm supposedly an engineer too
2020-08-24T23:17:16 < mawk> but I could've done without the useless studies
2020-08-24T23:17:16 < antto> they often have to decide what toolz to take before going "in the field" to a client
2020-08-24T23:17:35 < mawk> so I'm not a real engineer since my engineerness is just a piece of paper
2020-08-24T23:19:04 < antto> the oldest one of them usually solves problems like this:
2020-08-24T23:19:26 < antto> a board has some component that looks burnt? change it with a new one
2020-08-24T23:20:11 < antto> a board generally doesn't wurk? reflash it. still not wurking? if (not_too_lazy) { desolder mcu, solder another one, retry }
2020-08-24T23:20:48 < antto> (all of that when the issue is a matter of incorrect configuration, the firmware has a pile of settings)
2020-08-24T23:21:12 < antto> every f*cking time
2020-08-24T23:21:51 < antto> multimeter is only used after his "fixed" board fails for the 3rd time in a row
2020-08-24T23:22:13 < mawk> lol
2020-08-24T23:23:01 < antto> he often "fixes" stuff that runs on mains (230VAC) like computer PSUs or those cheap chinese switching supplies
2020-08-24T23:23:10 < mawk> lol
2020-08-24T23:23:14 < mawk> I wouldn't trust using it
2020-08-24T23:23:15 < Cracki> so he's treating firmware as a black box
2020-08-24T23:23:20 < antto> i run 5-6 meters away from him
2020-08-24T23:23:49 < mawk> I have a nice shiny bible at home Steffanx 
2020-08-24T23:23:53 < Cracki> o.o old farts must use multimeters. if they don't, put them in wooden boxes.
2020-08-24T23:23:55 < mawk> given by jeovah witnesses that wanted to convert me
2020-08-24T23:24:16 < antto> Cracki, he's my age, or slightly younger
2020-08-24T23:24:18 < Cracki> throw torah scrolls at them
2020-08-24T23:24:19 < antto> i think younger
2020-08-24T23:24:21 < mawk> but they made their own translation and tweaked thing to their advantage as I heard, so I cannot trust it
2020-08-24T23:24:24 < mawk> lol
2020-08-24T23:25:05 < Steffanx> Lol you talked to those guys?
2020-08-24T23:25:14 < mawk> yes
2020-08-24T23:25:24 < mawk> they were going about "evolution isn't true" or something
2020-08-24T23:25:29 < mawk> trying the science angle, smart
2020-08-24T23:25:33 < mawk> it didn't really work
2020-08-24T23:25:50 < mawk> but I took the bible, it's shiny
2020-08-24T23:25:53 < mawk> it's a nice paperweight
2020-08-24T23:25:55 < antto> Debian installation copmpleted ;P~
2020-08-24T23:26:04 < antto> minus the typos
2020-08-24T23:27:19 < Cracki> copulated
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2020-08-24T23:33:36 < zyp> hmm, bit disappointing that sigrok doesn't have any sort of ethernet decoders yet
2020-08-24T23:34:34 < Cracki> I think the people who decode ethernet build their own acquisition circuitry and analysis software
2020-08-24T23:34:44 < Cracki> azonenberg comes to mind
2020-08-24T23:35:27 < zyp> well, yeah, I've just hacked up some shit for RMII acquisition
2020-08-24T23:35:55 < zyp> a RMII decoder in sigrok would have been nice
2020-08-24T23:36:15 < zyp> not that I care all that much about the contents yet though
2020-08-24T23:36:59 < zyp> for the time being I'm more interested in the timing, I'm trying to figure out if the collisions my switch chip is claiming is real
2020-08-24T23:39:12 -!- bvernoux [~Ben@88.120.152.126] has quit [Quit: Leaving]
2020-08-24T23:44:59 < Cracki> sigrok wiki PD page is a kind of wishlist
2020-08-24T23:45:53 < Cracki> I see MII, GMII, ... listed
2020-08-24T23:46:22 < Cracki> (at 0% obviously)
2020-08-24T23:46:51 < zyp> yeah, I saw that
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2020-08-24T23:47:15 < Cracki> maybe throw them a dump or something :P
2020-08-24T23:51:01 < zyp> hmm, running rmii on jumper wires might not be working out very well
2020-08-24T23:54:22 < Steffanx> Hmm
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--- Day changed Tue Aug 25 2020
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2020-08-25T00:10:08 < zyp> okay, i took a look with good old riglol instead, tx_en goes high once per cycle for about 5.76 µs
2020-08-25T00:12:08 < zyp> a minimum frame is 64 octets plus a 8 octet preamble, 72*8 is 576 bit-times, so that looks good
2020-08-25T00:12:40 < zyp> what the fuck is colliding
2020-08-25T00:14:51 < karlp> autoneg fail?
2020-08-25T00:15:24 < zyp> no, autoneg is disabled, everything should be running at 100HDX
2020-08-25T00:16:26 < zyp> hmm, profishark timestamps request and response around 9.7 µs apart
2020-08-25T00:17:05 < zyp> IPG is 12 octets, so 0.96 µs
2020-08-25T00:18:03 < karlp> "should" :)
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2020-08-25T00:19:27 < zyp> well, I don't see how that can be the case
2020-08-25T00:21:44 < karlp> I know, just the most common cause of "shit's fucked" problems
2020-08-25T00:22:05 < karlp> no spanning tree? no accidental multicast/broadcast bit in your addresses?
2020-08-25T00:22:23 < karlp> no eth cable plugged into two wall ports hanging around for fun?
2020-08-25T00:22:45 < zyp> so far I've concluded that rmii_tx_en goes high exactly once per cycle, and remains high exactly as long as required to send a minimum sized frame, profishark between master and slave sees the frame go out on the wire, profishark sees the response come back 9.7 µs later which leaves plenty of gap, response gets lost in the switch chip and no activity is seen on crs_dv/rxd
2020-08-25T00:23:28 < zyp> nothing is connected to the other switch chip port and there's no other devices involved
2020-08-25T00:24:23 < zyp> but ok
2020-08-25T00:24:47 < zyp> so on one hand I've ruled out rmii misconfiguration issues on the mcu side
2020-08-25T00:25:43 < zyp> mcu appears to do exactly what it's supposed to, no flow control frames or anything else fucking up
2020-08-25T00:27:20 -!- Streaker [~Streaker@unaffiliated/streaker] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds]
2020-08-25T00:27:49 < Cracki> hw to blame? solder joints, issues in copper layer, ...?
2020-08-25T00:28:33 < Cracki> "gets lost in the switch chip", must it be in the chip
2020-08-25T00:30:10 < zyp> no, it doesn't just happen on one device
2020-08-25T00:32:30 < zyp> I have two different kinds of boards based on the same circuit so it's unlikely to be layout issues as well
2020-08-25T00:32:52 < zyp> I don't see anything in the schematic either
2020-08-25T00:33:43 < zyp> the switch chips appears to work perfectly in normal switch mode, I just see issues in the low latency repeater mode
2020-08-25T00:34:20 < zyp> and since the latter is the whole reason we picked this switch chip, I'd naturally like to get it to work :p
2020-08-25T00:36:41 < qyx> whoa Si115x I2C configuration is plain garbage
2020-08-25T00:36:51 < qyx> whats the concept behind it I don't know
2020-08-25T00:37:35 < qyx> it is a sort of indirect command calls using configuration registers to manipulate a configuration table
2020-08-25T00:37:51 < zyp> looks funky
2020-08-25T00:38:26 < zyp> kinda like somebody put an i2c wrapper in front of a protocol made for uart
2020-08-25T00:42:51 < zyp> hmm
2020-08-25T00:43:43 < zyp> it's getting tempting to replace this switch chip shit with a small fpga and two dumb rmii phys
2020-08-25T00:44:52 < zyp> I wonder if it's feasible to make an adapter board that'll solder right to the qfp128 footprint, could save a respin
2020-08-25T00:55:54 < zyp> probably feasible but not worthwhile, we'll have to make more boards soon anyway
2020-08-25T01:36:39 < karlp> zyp: oh, you're using a special mode? you may be missing some special registers that missed getting into the datasheet and are only in some vendor bsp?
2020-08-25T01:38:48 -!- leorat [~leorat@unaffiliated/leorat] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
2020-08-25T01:38:51 < zyp> could be, idk
2020-08-25T01:39:00 < zyp> I'm opening a support case with microchip
2020-08-25T01:43:12 < karlp> I've actualyl had good help from them.
2020-08-25T01:43:32 < karlp> didn't get all I wanted, (docs for teh extra manu test stuff) but got my problem solved at least.
2020-08-25T01:44:42 < basdb_> anyone have good sources for suppliers of LCDs with driver boards offering bulk prices better than what's on DigiKey, preferably US based
2020-08-25T01:45:01 < basdb_> huh did someone take my nick? :(
2020-08-25T01:45:22 < qyx> buydisplay.com maybe?
2020-08-25T01:45:50 < basdb_> web server down it seems
2020-08-25T01:46:06 < qyx> hah
2020-08-25T01:47:22 < qyx> ok that si115x finally measures something
2020-08-25T01:59:06 < englishman> which one is that
2020-08-25T01:59:18 < englishman> light sensor?
2020-08-25T01:59:26 < qyx> yes with LED drivers
2020-08-25T01:59:29 < qyx> ~~gesture sensor
2020-08-25T01:59:46 < qyx> you did something with Si1133, didn't you?
2020-08-25T02:01:47 < Cracki> wew thx for mentioning that si115x. I got some max44009 and they do have daylight range but only 8 bit mantissa and 4 exponent
2020-08-25T02:02:14 < Cracki> and they don't use the interrupt pin to signal conversion done, only value outside of programmed window
2020-08-25T02:03:13 < Cracki> that's not really for proximity, just lux measurement
2020-08-25T02:03:27 < qyx> I am using it for tamper detection only
2020-08-25T02:03:33 < qyx> I may as well use a PD
2020-08-25T02:03:40 < qyx> or a phototransistor..
2020-08-25T02:03:47 < qyx> maybe I will
2020-08-25T02:04:48 < englishman> yes but nothing serious. it worked. might use it when I actually get around to making greenhouse hardware. the devboard stuff worked great
2020-08-25T02:05:05 < qyx> lora greenhouse light sensor?
2020-08-25T02:05:14 < englishman> yes
2020-08-25T02:05:27 < englishman> some days it's better to keep plants indoors
2020-08-25T02:05:36 < englishman> this will allow us to measure that difference
2020-08-25T02:05:45 < qyx> this thing is capable of exactly that
2020-08-25T02:05:49 < englishman> right
2020-08-25T02:05:57 < englishman> up to sunlight level lux
2020-08-25T02:06:18 < englishman> also had temp and humidity sensors which are critical of course
2020-08-25T02:10:22 < qyx> you mentioned L072, are you using this one? https://github.com/TheThingsNetwork/LoRaMac-node
2020-08-25T02:10:49 < qyx> I plan to get rid of the RN2483 module
2020-08-25T02:12:17 < qyx> https://github.com/TheThingsNetwork/LoRaMac-node/blob/develop/src/radio/sx1276/sx1276.c#L357
2020-08-25T02:12:29 < qyx> braindamage such style
2020-08-25T02:12:47 < qyx> mawk will like it
2020-08-25T02:13:42 < zyp> hmm, doing an ethernet repeater in a FPGA should be easy as fuck, just an arbiter
2020-08-25T02:14:46 < zyp> would probably make the planned redundancy features easier to implement as well (and better)
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2020-08-25T02:15:50 < zyp> I've probably wasted more time debugging the repeater mode in this thing than I would have spent writing a fpga implementation
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2020-08-25T02:53:51 < sync> englishman: why not just use growlights all the time? :D
2020-08-25T02:57:01 < dongs> < qyx> https://github.com/TheThingsNetwork/LoRaMac-node/blob/develop/src/radio/sx1276/sx1276.c#L357
2020-08-25T02:57:04 < dongs> fucking aids
2020-08-25T02:57:21 < dongs> lol @ spaces around useless args but not where they matter (i.e. between keyword and (
2020-08-25T02:57:37 < dongs> when you write shit( do you write like this )?
2020-08-25T02:57:43 < dongs> or (do you write like this)?
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2020-08-25T03:15:41 < karlp> fucking cancer libtool required
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2020-08-25T03:38:01 < englishman> qyx: no im now using the Murata module with built in l0
2020-08-25T03:38:11 < englishman> sync: the sun is much brighter
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2020-08-25T04:11:34 < R2COM> also the code is obsolete looking c
2020-08-25T04:11:41 < R2COM> only c++ in 2020
2020-08-25T04:12:18 < R2COM> come on dongs start using it
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2020-08-25T04:46:44 < Polsaker> alright, if you say so
2020-08-25T04:46:49  * Polsaker switches whole codebase to cpp
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2020-08-25T05:15:03 < aandrew> zyp: yes, FPGA RMII/RGMII is pretty easy
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2020-08-25T08:47:07 < R2COM> man working with gdb console is amazing compared to what i experienced with this MCU IDEs
2020-08-25T08:47:57 < R2COM> the only MCU IDE which was OK was Atmels IDE, cuz not only it was spin from MSVC but also properly maintained
2020-08-25T08:48:12 < R2COM> ST didn't do anything like that
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2020-08-25T09:54:14 < Steffanx> Dont tell me you liked atmel start as well
2020-08-25T09:54:23 < Steffanx> Oh commie is gone
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2020-08-25T11:52:30 < karlp> heh, after years of them ranting about pros only use pro ides, now he's ranting about amaze gdb console :)
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2020-08-25T12:32:40 < karlp> "Just a friendly reminder to please update your MyMaxim profile."
2020-08-25T12:32:47 < mawk> beautiful qyx 
2020-08-25T12:32:48 < karlp> go fuck yourself morons
2020-08-25T13:05:53 < Steffanx> Lol that code is exactly what you ranted about mawk 
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2020-08-25T13:51:52 < qyx> englishman: with your own fw or theirs stack?
2020-08-25T13:55:51 < srk> anyone tried with stm32wl?
2020-08-25T13:56:08 < Steffanx> Aneng an101 dmm looked OK for my random use PaulFertser . I aliexpressed two
2020-08-25T13:56:33  * srk having fun with homebrew lorawan / sx12xx stack
2020-08-25T13:57:06 < bitmask> mornin'
2020-08-25T13:57:21 < Steffanx> Gooday Sir
2020-08-25T13:57:34 < bitmask> how do you do fine sir?
2020-08-25T13:58:07 < bitmask> im regretting my mgn12 rail decision
2020-08-25T13:59:54 < bitmask> had 4 rails, ordered 1 more, 2 of the 4 were kinda shitty so I ordered 2 more from the same place as the 1, the 1 started rusting, didnt wanna deal with it, still haventn received the 2 but I ordered 4 more
2020-08-25T14:00:12 < bitmask> from somewhere new in stainless
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2020-08-25T14:00:37 < bitmask> and aligning them is a bitch
2020-08-25T14:00:42 < bitmask> ::end rant::
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2020-08-25T14:06:53 < Steffanx> My rails started to rust too bitmask, but.. after removing it, it stopped rusting. 
2020-08-25T14:07:06 < bitmask> did you apply more oil/grease?
2020-08-25T14:07:10 < Steffanx> Not mgn12
2020-08-25T14:07:40 < Steffanx> I did lube it up yes ;)
2020-08-25T14:07:51 < bitmask> i know you enjoyed that
2020-08-25T14:08:09 < bitmask> what type of lube
2020-08-25T14:09:27 < Steffanx> Some ptfe lubricant that i once bought for my 3d printer.
2020-08-25T14:10:12 < bitmask> oil based?
2020-08-25T14:10:59 < Steffanx> The was very much on the surface and easy to remove. So im not sure about those rails
2020-08-25T14:11:53 < bitmask> https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B000BXOGHY/
2020-08-25T14:11:55 < bitmask> thats what I got
2020-08-25T14:12:34 < Steffanx> I think i used grease on one and oil on the other
2020-08-25T14:12:45 < bitmask> the new stainless rails should be better quality anyway so im looking forward to putting them on
2020-08-25T14:12:54 < Steffanx> Just because i was out
2020-08-25T14:13:37 < bitmask> gotta figure out how I'm gonna wire it up and then get it printing. The extruder I want has been out of stock and probably wont be in stock anytime soon unfortunately
2020-08-25T14:14:26 < srk> which one?
2020-08-25T14:14:33 < bitmask> e3d hemera
2020-08-25T14:14:46 < englishman> qyx: st lorawan stack
2020-08-25T14:15:02 < bitmask> i have an e3d titan aero right now and it has a lot of problems that the new one should fix
2020-08-25T14:15:13 < srk> yeah, that one is neat. there are some chinese clones btw
2020-08-25T14:15:29 < bitmask> oh yea? trianglelab doesn't have one yet and thats usually my goto for clones
2020-08-25T14:15:50 < srk> bmg full metal something
2020-08-25T14:16:00 < bitmask> ahh
2020-08-25T14:17:02 < bitmask> you sure thats meant to be the hemera and not just a bondtech clone?
2020-08-25T14:17:29 < Steffanx> Full metal jacket \o/
2020-08-25T14:17:34 < srk> not sure. what's special about hemera?
2020-08-25T14:18:35 < bitmask> has the dual drive gears like the bmg does but it also has a real short filament path
2020-08-25T14:18:57 < bitmask> im sure the bmg is good too but i dunno
2020-08-25T14:19:09 < bitmask> the bmg is what I was going to get before i found out about the hemera
2020-08-25T14:19:32 < srk> yeah, I want to get rid of my bowden bondtech, either with flex shaft or just using similar extruder that's not too heavy to put on the effector
2020-08-25T14:19:40 < srk> (delta)
2020-08-25T14:20:10 < bitmask> ive never tried bowden
2020-08-25T14:20:17 < srk> pita
2020-08-25T14:20:25 < bitmask> im okay printing slow so i prefer the benefits of direct drive
2020-08-25T14:20:59 < bitmask> flex shaft seems interesting though
2020-08-25T14:21:05 < bitmask> but I think i'll keep it simple
2020-08-25T14:21:10 < srk> yeah, needs encoder tho :)
2020-08-25T14:21:22 < bitmask> my new frame is a big enough upgrade
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2020-08-25T14:24:28 < karlp> bleh, new programabble power supply arrived, too new to work in latest release of sigrok, need nightlies, so need nightlies of all downstream tools too
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2020-08-25T14:45:01 < bitmask> i am so indecisive 
2020-08-25T14:45:24 < bitmask> I cant pick out a picnic cooler bag
2020-08-25T14:46:22 < bitmask> https://www.amazon.com/dp/B079JH35KQ/ doesnt look great and doesnt collapse but I like that it has the top separate compartment, https://www.amazon.com/OPUX-Thermal-Insulated-Leakproof-Collapsible doesnt have the top part but collapses
2020-08-25T14:46:49 < bitmask> and a bunch of others fairly similar
2020-08-25T14:48:43 < bitmask> I think the top compartment is important so I'll just go with that
2020-08-25T14:49:50 < Steffanx> Move to a colder state bitmask
2020-08-25T14:49:59 < bitmask> im in a cold state
2020-08-25T14:50:03 < bitmask> fairly
2020-08-25T14:50:11 < Steffanx> That last one doesn't exist
2020-08-25T14:50:15 < bitmask> but who wants to picnic when its cold
2020-08-25T14:58:29 < bitmask> oops
2020-08-25T14:58:53 < bitmask> https://www.amazon.com/OPUX-Thermal-Insulated-Leakproof-Collapsible/dp/B074767LYJ/
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2020-08-25T15:35:49 < karlp> lovely: bootup from power on: https://bin.jvnv.net/file/4WGdd.png
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2020-08-25T15:41:38 < zyp> nice
2020-08-25T15:42:40 < zyp> wish my tenma rebrand also had the data port
2020-08-25T15:42:41 < karlp> yeah, next is plugging that back into openhtf, so I can turn ont he power on demand to hit the bootloader to flash shit, and then also watch it's consumption to check it's in bounds
2020-08-25T15:42:57 < karlp> yeah, data port is only a _little_ bit more money, but so much more value
2020-08-25T15:43:28 < karlp> it's kinda slow to respond, but not painfully slow
2020-08-25T15:43:42 < karlp> screw terminals would hav ebeen nice too.
2020-08-25T15:44:14 < zyp> I'm considering getting another bench supply or something
2020-08-25T15:44:36 < zyp> I needed another the other day so I dug out some super cheap shit I bought once
2020-08-25T15:44:40 < zyp> it's awful
2020-08-25T15:45:09 < zyp> doesn't even have an output enable, just main power button
2020-08-25T15:45:29 < zyp> so I can't read what voltage it's set to before the output is turned on
2020-08-25T15:46:50 < zyp> considering getting a RD6012
2020-08-25T15:52:19 < karlp> yeah, me too actually
2020-08-25T15:52:47 < karlp> though I think I was looking at the "not quite as much power" version
2020-08-25T15:53:14 < zyp> I was looking at RD6006 before the RD6012 came out
2020-08-25T15:53:25 < zyp> but why not, could always come in handy
2020-08-25T15:53:55 < karlp> I think I read that the 6006 has better current resolution or something
2020-08-25T15:54:03 < karlp> and it needs a much smaller power supply unit
2020-08-25T15:54:27 < zyp> the led matrix shit I dicked around with earlier eats amps like crazy
2020-08-25T15:54:42 < zyp> so it could always be useful to have
2020-08-25T15:55:26 < karlp> yeah, I've never really done much of any real power
2020-08-25T15:56:11 < zyp> https://bin.jvnv.net/file/or7vC.mp4 <- this is 1.4A and IIRC it's running at a relatively low duty in addition to the pattern being only 50% on
2020-08-25T15:57:25 < zyp> and I also figure if it was accuracy I wanted, I'd rather get a linear supply
2020-08-25T15:58:28 < zyp> rigol dp832a looks tempting
2020-08-25T15:59:18 < karlp> unsuprisingly we use less power at 12V than 24V :)
2020-08-25T15:59:43 < karlp> yeahm, 832 looks good for an actual lab bench
2020-08-25T15:59:58 < karlp> this korad thing ws chosen to be cheap enough to be built into the hardware production bit
2020-08-25T16:00:50 < bitmask> I'm down to 3 bags, someone help me pick!
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2020-08-25T16:01:13 < bitmask> https://www.amazon.com/MOJECTO-Bag-12x10x6-5-Inch-Two-Insulated-Compartments-Insulation/dp/B019L0E0BY/    https://www.amazon.com/Lifewit-Collapsible-Insulated-Leakproof-Portable/dp/B07KC1R73B/    https://www.amazon.com/dp/B0861DR91J/
2020-08-25T16:04:04 < day> zyp: a non noisy room heater lab psu would be nice :P
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2020-08-25T16:38:37 < karlp> bitmask: what are you using them for?
2020-08-25T16:40:23 < karlp> all look pretty similar to me
2020-08-25T16:47:22 < bitmask> as picnic baskets
2020-08-25T17:05:52 < bitmask> i ordered two to decide :P
2020-08-25T17:06:06 < bitmask> i usually hate doing that but whatever
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2020-08-25T17:37:08 < Steffanx> Arent you from one of those states where its +20C the entire year bitmask ?
2020-08-25T17:37:45 < bitmask> there are no states that fit that spec
2020-08-25T17:38:50 < bitmask> The state's temperature ranges from a July average of 23°C (74°F) to -1°C (30°F) in January
2020-08-25T17:39:32 < bitmask> Summer average temperatures in New Jersey usually range between 82°F (27.8°C) to 87°F (30.6°C). Central New Jersey tends to have 15 to 20 days of temperatures above 90°F (32.2°C)
2020-08-25T17:39:35 < bitmask> that seems more accurate
2020-08-25T17:53:47 < Steffanx> Hmm
2020-08-25T17:54:56 < Cracki> miami dips to 17C in january nights https://weatherspark.com/y/18622/Average-Weather-in-Miami-Florida-United-States-Year-Round
2020-08-25T17:55:25 < Cracki> any good ideas for a sunnier place?
2020-08-25T17:55:37 < Cracki> (apart from outside of the us)
2020-08-25T17:56:13 < Cracki> southern texas gets coler, southern cali too
2020-08-25T17:59:33 < Steffanx> 17C is still T-shirt weather
2020-08-25T18:02:33 < Cracki> it's above 30C for ~4 months. I think I'd melt.
2020-08-25T18:05:34 < Cracki> "no you dumbass humans don't melt, they burn!" I never claimed to be
2020-08-25T18:16:09 < R2COM> soo it seems in c++ no need to do typedef struct right
2020-08-25T18:16:16 < R2COM> because it can be templated
2020-08-25T18:16:28 < R2COM> like traditionally for example in CMSIS for say NVIC regs
2020-08-25T18:16:46 < Cracki> right
2020-08-25T18:16:48 < Cracki> wat
2020-08-25T18:16:55 < R2COM> there is typedef strict { /* all regs*/ } NVIC_Type;
2020-08-25T18:17:02 < Cracki> structs are kinda like classes
2020-08-25T18:17:21 < R2COM> now i could do:
2020-08-25T18:17:28 < Cracki> you need no typedef in either c++ or c
2020-08-25T18:17:29 < R2COM> template<typename T>
2020-08-25T18:17:44 < Cracki> in c++ you can even skip the "struct" in "struct foo somthing;"
2020-08-25T18:17:50 < R2COM> struct NVIC { /* regs */ T *addr;}
2020-08-25T18:18:13 < R2COM> this is not point im making
2020-08-25T18:18:33 < R2COM> im saying that the typical definition of register map
2020-08-25T18:18:39 < R2COM> can be done in a way i shown if im correct
2020-08-25T18:19:36 < R2COM> previously it was traditionally like this:
2020-08-25T18:19:39 < R2COM> typedef strict { /* all regs*/ } NVIC_Type;
2020-08-25T18:19:45 < R2COM> and then one needs to define addr like that:
2020-08-25T18:19:51 < Cracki> struct tho
2020-08-25T18:19:54 < R2COM> #define NVIC                ((NVIC_Type      *)     NVIC_BASE     ) 
2020-08-25T18:20:03 < R2COM> but now, all that stuff can be done like this:
2020-08-25T18:20:13 < R2COM> template<typename T>
2020-08-25T18:20:24 < R2COM> struct NVIC { /* regs */ T *addr;}
2020-08-25T18:20:44 < Cracki> const auto& NVIC = *(NVIC_Type*)NVIC_BASE; // maybe
2020-08-25T18:21:15 < Cracki> but wat do I know, compiler would probably make demons fly out of someone's nose
2020-08-25T18:21:45 < Cracki> why would you do that, that's not doing anything, that's just a type, not an instance
2020-08-25T18:22:06 < Cracki> also addr is just a member/field, does nothing
2020-08-25T18:22:21 < Cracki> and why would T need to be templated
2020-08-25T18:22:45 < R2COM> it can be specialized with known addr type
2020-08-25T18:23:18 < R2COM> i dont know i think i read somewhere in Stroustrups book few days ago where he advised stop using typedefs
2020-08-25T18:23:22 < R2COM> i hope i read it right
2020-08-25T18:23:35 < R2COM> its like... one supposed to use "using" instead
2020-08-25T18:23:50 < R2COM> typedef is like "C" thing
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2020-08-25T19:03:16 < R2COM> so, the struct holds its objects in memory sequentially, its kinda guaranteed
2020-08-25T19:03:22 < R2COM> but is it same thing for class too?
2020-08-25T19:03:26 < R2COM> hmm
2020-08-25T19:04:45 < R2COM> yea
2020-08-25T19:07:36 < Cracki> classes *may* have something called "v-tables" and I guess structs can too, since structs are basically classes with everything default public
2020-08-25T19:08:06 < karlp> so a struct woudl of course _not_ have a vtable...
2020-08-25T19:08:29 < karlp> you could look at a class as a struct, but not a struct as a class.
2020-08-25T19:10:49 < Cracki> lol they even support inheritance that's funny, they're just like classes except default public https://stackoverflow.com/questions/979211/struct-inheritance-in-c
2020-08-25T19:11:35 < englishman> 3rd interview went ok
2020-08-25T19:13:19 < Cracki> kek https://stackoverflow.com/questions/3845564/so-now-struct-can-have-virtual-function-and-support-inheritance-what-differenc
2020-08-25T19:14:08 < Cracki> well I guess if I could be bothered to read the fucking C++ standard, and remembered a choice of funny bits, I'd have known this years ago
2020-08-25T19:25:11 < Steffanx> Just OK, englishman  ?
2020-08-25T19:25:29 < englishman> yeah
2020-08-25T19:25:30 < englishman> idk tho
2020-08-25T19:25:39 < englishman> got that imposter syndrome
2020-08-25T19:26:09 < Steffanx> Hehe. Awesome.
2020-08-25T19:26:25 < englishman> it would be nice if I got it. the projects seem super interesting, putting together many different disciplines in a surprising setting. and with big budgets
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2020-08-25T20:15:25 < englishman> they are asking for my references
2020-08-25T20:15:28 < englishman> :o
2020-08-25T20:17:24 < Steffanx> Tell them about your previous boss.
2020-08-25T20:17:38 < Steffanx> and ##stm32 ofcourse
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2020-08-25T20:20:12 < englishman> I will give them a number of a Dutch man and a Japanese man
2020-08-25T20:20:28 < englishman> they will explain how great I am with kitties
2020-08-25T20:20:47 < Steffanx> Awesome. deal
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2020-08-25T20:24:20 < Steffanx> oh shit this reminds me i promised some aussie to shop stroopwaffles
2020-08-25T20:24:26 < Steffanx> *ship
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2020-08-25T20:45:24 < brdb> anyone using the stlink tool for flashing, etc? somehow i'm getting different results with same versions of libusb and stlink for 'st-info --probe'
2020-08-25T20:45:47 < brdb> tried on a live boot cd for linux to verify it's not a hardware fault on the PC, read the right chip ID etc.
2020-08-25T20:46:31 < brdb> same linux kernel, same package versions, so somehow either a package is messing up libusb's behavior or something else is gravely wrong
2020-08-25T20:49:34 < karlp> stop using texane?
2020-08-25T20:50:00 < karlp> what do you mean by "different results with same versions" ?
2020-08-25T20:50:11 < karlp> are you runing st-info repeatedly and getting different results?
2020-08-25T20:50:27 < karlp> you're missing some information
2020-08-25T20:50:29 < brdb> st-info on different PCs with the same version of tools and deps yields different versions
2020-08-25T20:50:43 < karlp> so what do you get?
2020-08-25T20:51:46 < brdb> this is the invalid result: https://pastebin.com/B1sKaH43
2020-08-25T20:52:07 < brdb> i can try with openocd but i've not had success with it karlp
2020-08-25T20:52:07 < karlp> what st-info tool si this?
2020-08-25T20:52:30 < karlp> and same stlink hardware itself?
2020-08-25T20:52:41 < karlp> older stlinks had garbage serial numbers, if that's the only thing you'ðre talking about
2020-08-25T20:52:55 < karlp> what's a good one look like?
2020-08-25T20:53:12 < brdb> yes provided by stlinks
2020-08-25T20:53:21 < karlp> texane stlink?
2020-08-25T20:53:51 < brdb> yes, but rebranded as stlink-org now it seems
2020-08-25T20:54:21 < brdb> good result (same disco board, same USB cable): https://pastebin.com/7rimjYL0
2020-08-25T21:05:55 < karlp> but but different computer?
2020-08-25T21:06:35 < karlp> no idea, looks like trash software
2020-08-25T21:10:43 < brdb> probably
2020-08-25T21:10:58 < brdb> i can't get openocd to really work with libopencm3-examples so this was my main go-to
2020-08-25T21:12:05 < brdb> not clear to me why this is failing with openocd: https://pastebin.com/MGUJJXg3
2020-08-25T21:16:33 < brdb> ah stlink-v2-1 needed to be changed to stlink-v2 on the makefile includes for openocd ^
2020-08-25T21:17:34 < karlp> it only needs changing if you had a "different" stlink
2020-08-25T21:17:41 < PaulFertser> Steffanx: (aneng an101) aha, I see, that's matching your requirements indeed.
2020-08-25T21:17:43 < karlp> thankfully openocd these days you just use "stlink"
2020-08-25T21:18:15 < karlp> are you sure you actually have permissions on the device on the "failing" place?
2020-08-25T21:18:39 < karlp> also, you can't really use oocd 0.10, it's become worthlessly outdated, and upstream.... *GLARES* doesn't really seem to think there's a problem with that.
2020-08-25T21:18:51 < brdb> yes karlp, udev rules are ok
2020-08-25T21:19:05 < brdb> what would you suggest karlp? i'm open to other options
2020-08-25T21:19:17 < karlp> are you sure you don't have another process around doing things?
2020-08-25T21:19:19 < PaulFertser> karlp: there's a problem, nobody's arguing that. And Antonio has already started the preparations for the next release, he's rather active.
2020-08-25T21:19:32 < brdb> i just need a simple way to program my boards, openocd or stlink
2020-08-25T21:19:36 < karlp> given how worthless 0.10 is, I'm not sure what _preparations_ are required.
2020-08-25T21:19:44 < PaulFertser> brdb: please paste your current last log
2020-08-25T21:19:54 < brdb> log of what
2020-08-25T21:19:56 < PaulFertser> brdb: 0.10.0 should work for your purposes
2020-08-25T21:19:59 < brdb> it does
2020-08-25T21:20:01 < PaulFertser> brdb: openocd invocation that's not working
2020-08-25T21:20:15 < brdb> it was pebcak in my case for openocd, no worries PaulFertser 
2020-08-25T21:20:19 < karlp> if you want a miniblink, try this: https://github.com/libopencm3/libopencm3-miniblink/ it's maintained better
2020-08-25T21:20:27 < PaulFertser> brdb: cool
2020-08-25T21:21:26 < brdb> openocd works and stlink doesnt (on this laptop) -- i'm not sure what could interfere with libusb for such a simple program to cause it to be so wildly different
2020-08-25T21:21:56 < brdb> might compare the processes and packages installed on the known-good to this one and see if i can't figure it out as it doesn't make sense
2020-08-25T21:22:17 < brdb> the glibc (libusb dep) version is slightly newer on this one upon further digging but i really have my doubts about that being the issue
2020-08-25T21:22:31 < karlp> you said you had some clone stlink?
2020-08-25T21:22:55 < karlp> modem manager was famous for interferring with with serial ports, which ar eon stlink v2.1s
2020-08-25T21:22:56 < brdb> same version of stlink on both, yes, and reinstalled to verify
2020-08-25T21:23:06 < brdb> hmm
2020-08-25T21:24:37 < PaulFertser> brdb: what are exactly the manifistations of stlink not working "on this laptop"?
2020-08-25T21:25:37 < brdb> it fails to correctly identify and use the stlinkv2 device on the discovery board
2020-08-25T21:25:45 < brdb> openocd has no issues
2020-08-25T21:26:25 < brdb> this along with a pam update breaking my linux login in the morning has me hooked now
2020-08-25T21:27:35 < PaulFertser> brdb: do you see that stlinkv2 in lsusb?
2020-08-25T21:27:44 < PaulFertser> With the expected vid/pid
2020-08-25T21:27:52 < brdb> yes I do, and yes
2020-08-25T21:28:57 < PaulFertser> So I'd try running openocd under strace to see what device node it tries to access. And would check its real permissions with ls -l.
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2020-08-25T21:33:24 < brdb> matches the device in lsusb, again to clarify openocd works in my case
2020-08-25T21:33:38 < brdb> just for whatever reason stlink throws a fit with no clear indication as to why
2020-08-25T21:38:38 < brdb> the latest build from source of stlink does work though, wowee
2020-08-25T21:40:56 < PaulFertser> brdb: oh, when saying "stlink" you were talking about texane/stlink utility (which I consider useless when openocd works) and I thought you're talking about stlink hardware.
2020-08-25T21:41:05 < PaulFertser> brdb: why do you need that utility btw?
2020-08-25T21:42:07 < brdb> it's just a simple utility with few deps that's kept relatively up to date for flashing stm32 devices
2020-08-25T21:42:18 < brdb> i'll use openocd until whatever the fix was is released
2020-08-25T21:42:36 < brdb> maybe openocd is more proper, who knows
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2020-08-25T22:25:57 < Steffanx> ty
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2020-08-25T22:40:13 < Cracki> strata, lmk if it has bugs or sucks for other reasons
2020-08-25T22:43:02 < Cracki>  Table 3. Main fixed issues in V6.0.1 
2020-08-25T22:43:05 < Cracki> 90615 Unexpected project data deletion when some utilities are used.
2020-08-25T22:43:06 < Cracki> OOPS
2020-08-25T22:43:30 < Cracki> 90934 Some boards do not boot after enabling FreeRTOS™.
2020-08-25T22:43:50 < Cracki> at least they caught it. I wonder what they'll find that might need a 6.0.2
2020-08-25T23:04:39 < antto> looooooirens, wut'cha doooooooin?
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2020-08-25T23:46:18 < Steffanx> is Laurenceb is alive?
2020-08-25T23:51:10 < Cracki> he was ~20 hours ago
--- Day changed Wed Aug 26 2020
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2020-08-26T00:24:19 < karlp> heh, sw company, banner warning abotu shipping delays for covid 19
2020-08-26T00:24:24 < karlp> it's an emailed license key!
2020-08-26T00:30:37 < upgrdman> hey man, the minions running pop3/smtp need time to wipe and sterilize stuff
2020-08-26T00:30:55 < upgrdman> the UPS store near me has reduced hours too. wtf, why
2020-08-26T00:31:08 < upgrdman> of all placed, couriers should have EXTENDED hours
2020-08-26T00:31:11 < upgrdman> places*
2020-08-26T00:32:06 < Cracki> maybe less business because everyone's offing themselves over their ruined livelihoods
2020-08-26T00:32:11 < zyp> pretty simple really, when some of the employees have to be home in quarantine, they have less people to cover the shifts and compensate by reducing hours
2020-08-26T00:32:25 < Cracki> can't be that many
2020-08-26T00:32:50 < qyx> during coronadays, here nearly all taxi drivers converted to delivering parcels
2020-08-26T00:32:54 < Cracki> how many percent of the population have had it over all this time, not all at hte same time? single percents?
2020-08-26T00:33:32 < upgrdman> zyp, but if its a business that is growing during the pandemic, wouldnt it make sense to hire more ppl
2020-08-26T00:33:48 < upgrdman> there plenty of poor fucks looking for work :)
2020-08-26T00:34:30 < Cracki> ER visits dropped, not because any lockdown but because people who just needed a bandaid for a papercut stayed the fuck away
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2020-08-26T00:35:07 < zyp> also less accidents when people sit at home more
2020-08-26T00:35:10 < Cracki> why would UPS business stay the same? who is using their store?
2020-08-26T00:35:33 < upgrdman> Cracki, when i showed up, there was a line of ppl waiting to ship crap back to amazon, etc
2020-08-26T00:35:43 < Cracki> consumers. business has their shit picked up.
2020-08-26T00:35:47 < Cracki> lol ok
2020-08-26T00:35:53 < Cracki> so they _are_ being retards
2020-08-26T00:36:37 < Cracki> around here there's a thing roughly translated as "short work", in which the employer has people come in for half the day, and they get paid partially from unemployment benefits
2020-08-26T00:36:56 < Cracki> maybe they do that. it's cheaper for the employer
2020-08-26T00:37:04 < Cracki> dunno if murica or wherever has such a scheme
2020-08-26T00:37:32 < zyp> why half the day?
2020-08-26T00:37:41 < Cracki> "because economy tanked"
2020-08-26T00:37:46 < Cracki> because they tanked it
2020-08-26T00:38:05 < Cracki> "it's only money" yeah well life requires money
2020-08-26T00:38:36 < zyp> we have a similar scheme here where people can «try out» at an employer and get paid by unemployment benefits
2020-08-26T00:38:47 < Cracki> eh whatever. the reality of the situation will hit people eventually.
2020-08-26T00:39:03 < Cracki> how the hell does the employer not pay for that?
2020-08-26T00:39:12 < Cracki> is that for low skilled jobs?
2020-08-26T00:39:29 < zyp> not necessarily, but it's subject to approval
2020-08-26T00:40:01 < Cracki> our trades cry a lot about not finding any apprentices (who are worth a damn)
2020-08-26T00:40:35 < Cracki> blame on both sides. trades treat apprentices like shit quite often.
2020-08-26T00:40:46 < zyp> IIRC one of my friends did that some years ago, company ended up hiring him and he's still with them
2020-08-26T00:40:49 < zyp> software dev
2020-08-26T00:41:37 < Cracki> I _would_ like it to be easier to hop through companies, try them out
2020-08-26T00:42:20 < zyp> I don't think it's all that easy, I believe he also had a back surgery around that time which made it easier to get approved
2020-08-26T00:42:29 < zyp> but still
2020-08-26T00:43:34 < Cracki> some local trade association for companies needing computer science... they offer job placement to students/graduates... the twist: you get one company, and you have to be like fuck or pass, so you can't compare offers (because only one offer at a time)
2020-08-26T00:43:45 < Cracki> yay back surgery
2020-08-26T00:44:13 < zyp> if you're either going to get unemployment money sitting at home waiting for a job to fall in your lap or get unemployment money while trying out at a company, it costs the state the same so why not
2020-08-26T00:44:39 < zyp> the latter is cheaper if it ends up getting you a job faster
2020-08-26T00:44:52 < Cracki> good point
2020-08-26T00:45:51 < zyp> I feel like the norwegian unemployment system is fairly decent
2020-08-26T00:46:20 < zyp> people love complaining about it, but I still haven't heard about anything better in other countries
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2020-08-26T00:54:30 < specing> lol
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2020-08-26T01:11:12 < Steffanx> Fat shaker?
2020-08-26T01:16:54 < Cracki> put a camera in it, bongs love surveillance
2020-08-26T01:17:30 < Cracki> maybe a smoke detector, could prevent another grenfell tower fire
2020-08-26T01:18:01 < Cracki> do you mean "kosher" switches?
2020-08-26T01:18:37 < Cracki> "free energy" appliances. enter social media credentials to receive credit
2020-08-26T01:18:51 -!- upgrdman [~upgrdman@blender/artist/upgrdman] has quit [Quit: Leaving]
2020-08-26T01:19:02 < Cracki> smart bulb, shows you youtube ads
2020-08-26T01:19:18 < Cracki> smart radiator, plays radio ads
2020-08-26T01:19:30 < Cracki> water tax, is that a thing?
2020-08-26T01:20:22 < Cracki> do they do any retarded shit like metering by time of day?
2020-08-26T01:20:32 < Cracki> ok, the grid is failing
2020-08-26T01:20:38 < Cracki> this is only done on failing grids
2020-08-26T01:20:48 < Cracki> same with internet. if you get "night time free traffic", the grid is dead
2020-08-26T01:21:01 < Cracki> how about they just build a few nuclear power plants
2020-08-26T01:21:21 < Cracki> ideal for base load. fuck the hippie shit, that's for weirdos who wanna live in the woods.
2020-08-26T01:21:42 < Cracki> (I might wanna live in the woods but could I pls have a nuclear reactor too)
2020-08-26T01:22:02 < Cracki> they could put that money into lower electricity taxes
2020-08-26T01:22:28 < Cracki> take a close look at who gets these retarded projects. they basically get gibs.
2020-08-26T01:22:40 < Cracki> 175k per prototype, wew
2020-08-26T01:22:46 < Cracki> that's two engineer years
2020-08-26T01:22:58 < Cracki> and a huge amount of redundancy
2020-08-26T01:23:12 < Cracki> bongs use "redundancy" as an euphemism for "you're fired", innit
2020-08-26T01:23:38  * Cracki looks up proper use of "innit"
2020-08-26T01:24:00 < Cracki> eeeeeeeehhh
2020-08-26T01:24:25 < Cracki> all the people responsible need to lose their heads
2020-08-26T01:24:31 < Cracki> this shit doesn't stop until heads roll
2020-08-26T01:25:42 < Cracki> any encryption in it? any worth a damn?
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2020-08-26T01:25:49 < Cracki> or can you now record everyone's usage?
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2020-08-26T01:25:53 < Cracki> lol
2020-08-26T01:26:22 < Cracki> how can they fail so hard? just engage a proper company
2020-08-26T01:27:42 < Cracki> inb4 every single one gets gsmr and they have to waste another half billion on cellular towers
2020-08-26T01:28:21 < Cracki> ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
2020-08-26T01:28:40 < Cracki> like bitch it's a meter, it counts, if you miss an update or a hundred it's irrelevant
2020-08-26T01:30:55 < Cracki> so... (node) ~mesh~ (node) ~cellular~ (cell tower) ~internet~ (server)
2020-08-26T01:31:10 < Cracki> instead of (node) ~mesh~ (gateway) ~internet~ (server)
2020-08-26T01:31:20 < Cracki> maybe someone needed to write a thesis on mesh networking
2020-08-26T01:32:12 < Cracki> would they even need meshing if they could place gateways densely enough or make the radio side long range enough
2020-08-26T01:32:19 < Cracki> meshing is a headache
2020-08-26T01:34:44 < englishman> Laurenceb: lmao are they made by lucas electronics
2020-08-26T01:35:14 < englishman> also lol @ electric vehicle joule tax
2020-08-26T01:35:15 < englishman> tax on tax
2020-08-26T01:35:17 < englishman> on tax
2020-08-26T01:39:27 < karlp> englishman: that's to replace petrol tax I presume,
2020-08-26T01:39:45 < karlp> seeing as petrol tax was indirect user tax on roads, and that dissappears with ecars
2020-08-26T01:47:26 < englishman> that'll have to happen once electric cars permeate the market
2020-08-26T01:47:41 < englishman> but in the UK they are probably 0.00001% of cars
2020-08-26T01:48:31 < englishman> also there are plenty of ways to tax cars in a user-pay scheme that are not so trivial to get around
2020-08-26T01:50:37 < englishman> remember every uker has been trained since birth in house wiring
2020-08-26T01:58:06 < Ultrasauce> is that why they put fuses in the plugs
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2020-08-26T03:27:04 < brdb> this LTDC stuff on the stm32f429 is frying my head, i dont know why ST sneaky snake hides the alternate function mappings from me to reference for GPIOs connecting to the LCDTFT panel
2020-08-26T03:34:47 < brdb> ST's application note only makes a vague remark at their Cube tool doing all the heavy lifting and only show minimal insight into the mappings
2020-08-26T03:37:12 < brdb> oh they cleverly renamed the alternate function to LCD_xx in the AF mappings
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2020-08-26T03:37:33 < brdb> instead of LTDC as it's referenced elsewhere
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2020-08-26T04:49:06 < aandrew> LTDC? 
2020-08-26T04:49:14 < aandrew> linear time blahblah? 
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2020-08-26T05:49:42 < ColdKeyboard> When you use I2C to communicate with the slave device, is it better to use write to indicate what register/address/command you want, and then doing read to read the value/status back? Or if it's read-only, can you just initiate read and first byte after the address is register address?
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2020-08-26T06:41:23 < R2COM> lol @ vim's mainpage
2020-08-26T06:42:06 < R2COM> "Vim: The power tool for everyone!"
2020-08-26T06:44:15 < R2COM> no eye protection tho
2020-08-26T06:52:13 < ColdKeyboard> R2COM I saw somewhere that one of the most popular questions on StackOverflow was how to quick vim 
2020-08-26T06:52:22 < ColdKeyboard> *quit
2020-08-26T06:55:39 < antto> yeah this vim sh*t
2020-08-26T06:55:41 < antto> >:(
2020-08-26T06:56:33 < antto> once some debian install or update process (or was it git?) launched a text editor, and i couldn't f*cking quit it
2020-08-26T06:56:38 < antto> i got so mad
2020-08-26T07:16:02 < ColdKeyboard> It was most likely git
2020-08-26T07:16:27 < ColdKeyboard> vim is great but it's kind of sadistic, especially for the 21st century
2020-08-26T07:27:52 < R2COM> its not
2020-08-26T07:28:34 < R2COM> i liked another editor: slickedit 
2020-08-26T07:28:46 < R2COM> but vim rules
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2020-08-26T07:36:26 < R2COM> so even in slickedit i chose vim emulation
2020-08-26T07:36:39 < R2COM> and i installed vim addon on MSVC too
2020-08-26T07:36:47 < R2COM> everything vim
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2020-08-26T08:57:12 < dongs> Spend $10.22 more and get FREE shipping.
2020-08-26T08:57:15 < dongs> saend help
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2020-08-26T09:04:37 < ds2> D/K?
2020-08-26T09:04:43 < dongs> ya, solved
2020-08-26T09:04:53 < dongs> i actually wanted an i.mx evalboard but it was TOO CHEAP
2020-08-26T09:05:04 < dongs> so I picked up a couple of the related i.mx CPUs ot pad up shipping.
2020-08-26T09:05:17 < ds2> heh
2020-08-26T09:05:19 < ds2> which IMX?
2020-08-26T09:05:33 < dongs> 1010
2020-08-26T09:05:38 < dongs> it seems crazy hceap
2020-08-26T09:05:50 < ds2> oh this is the IMX.RT stuff?
2020-08-26T09:05:53 < dongs> Y
2020-08-26T09:05:59 < dongs> its like $1 in volume
2020-08-26T09:06:02 < dongs> for 500mhz M7
2020-08-26T09:06:07 < dongs> crazy shit
2020-08-26T09:06:23 < ds2> what are they really good for?
2020-08-26T09:06:26 < dongs> not sure!
2020-08-26T09:06:29 < ds2> heh
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2020-08-26T09:06:34 < dongs> thats whty I got an evalboard
2020-08-26T09:06:36 < ds2> for something fast and hard, I want a MMU
2020-08-26T09:06:45 < ds2> hard RT
2020-08-26T09:07:14 < ds2> no faith in fellow SW coders
2020-08-26T09:08:39 < dongs> wow there's a 1ghz option
2020-08-26T09:08:41 < dongs> wtf
2020-08-26T09:08:44 < dongs> can M7 even go taht high
2020-08-26T09:08:46 < dongs> thats nutty
2020-08-26T09:08:58 < ds2> is it another Xscale?
2020-08-26T09:09:02 < dongs> no, same series
2020-08-26T09:09:10 < dongs> i'm looking at ordering guide in datasheet
2020-08-26T09:09:16 < dongs> there's 400mhz-1000mhz speed grades
2020-08-26T09:10:04 < dongs> 40nm apparently hmm
2020-08-26T09:10:36 < dongs> 10% into datasheet, USB was mentioned like 5 times no mention if its HS or FS
2020-08-26T09:10:47 < dongs> One high-speed OTG 2.0 module with integrated HS
2020-08-26T09:10:48 < dongs> USB PHY
2020-08-26T09:10:49 < ds2> hehe but it is USB
2020-08-26T09:10:50 < dongs> finally
2020-08-26T09:11:15 < ds2> did they say what is the realizable speed?
2020-08-26T09:11:25 < ds2> I got a IMXRT board lying around; just couldn't think of a good use
2020-08-26T09:12:01 < dongs> https://i.imgur.com/EmVboFl.png
2020-08-26T09:13:10 < dongs> i ordered the evk thing to fuck aroudn with
2020-08-26T09:13:49 < ds2> that sounds familiar, wonder if that's what they gave away... went to a talk at the F2F thing
2020-08-26T09:14:18 < dongs> seems there exists one for each series
2020-08-26T09:14:20 < dongs> 1010 1050 1060 etc
2020-08-26T09:16:42 < dongs> lul it comes with some bullshit "FreeLink" debugger
2020-08-26T09:16:55 < dongs> https://www.nxp.com/design/microcontrollers-developer-resources/ides-for-kinetis-mcus/opensda-serial-and-debug-adapter:OPENSDA
2020-08-26T09:16:58 < dongs> this aids
2020-08-26T09:17:38 < ds2> Oh that
2020-08-26T09:17:52 < ds2> isn't it basically the CMSIS debugger implemented on the Kinetis?
2020-08-26T09:21:39 < ds2> tired of the JLink abomination
2020-08-26T09:23:47 < dongs> some LPC this time but yeah no thanks, jlink > *
2020-08-26T09:24:33 < ds2> having finally got a full jlink, I just don't see why it is worth the trouble
2020-08-26T09:25:39 < ds2> the command line on that thing is a major pita
2020-08-26T09:25:46 < dongs> command... line?
2020-08-26T09:25:49 < dongs> haev you used ozone
2020-08-26T09:25:53 < ds2> yes. JLink.EXE
2020-08-26T09:25:57 < dongs> yeah shit nobody uses
2020-08-26T09:26:02 < ds2> nope
2020-08-26T09:26:06 < dongs> normal people use ozone or IDE integration
2020-08-26T09:26:12 < dongs> yeah ozone is an amazing debugger, try it otu
2020-08-26T09:26:13 < ds2> I just want to download a .hex file
2020-08-26T09:26:19 < ds2> does it require graphics?
2020-08-26T09:26:21 < dongs> then use jflashlite
2020-08-26T09:26:23 < dongs> yes?
2020-08-26T09:26:34 < ds2> I am often remote
2020-08-26T09:26:43 < dongs> well bro sorry to hear that
2020-08-26T09:26:48 < dongs> get jlink pro, i think it supports ethernet
2020-08-26T09:26:58 < dongs> idk if it works "remotely"
2020-08-26T09:27:00 < dongs> i guess it should
2020-08-26T09:27:24 < ds2> 2 things really pisses me off about JLink - their licensing BS and their commandline
2020-08-26T09:27:49 < ds2> the only real saving thing about it is the availability of standard adapters
2020-08-26T09:31:49 < dongs> oh gawd fucking MCUXpresso
2020-08-26T09:31:56 < dongs> is there no fucking download link for something like SPL
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2020-08-26T09:34:52 < dongs> hmm wait
2020-08-26T09:34:55 < dongs> it has no internal flash?
2020-08-26T09:35:30 < dongs> yeah that explains the price
2020-08-26T09:35:38 < dongs> you gotta boot it off QSPI
2020-08-26T09:35:41 < dongs> or nand/whatever
2020-08-26T09:37:46 < dongs> holy shit they have stdperiph equivalent for Keil
2020-08-26T09:37:48 < dongs> in auto downloads
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2020-08-26T09:54:24 < dongs> 1170 is the one with 1ghz m7
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2020-08-26T10:16:58 < ds2> I'd love to hear about an interesting project with that
2020-08-26T10:17:14 < ds2> they seem to push it a lot
2020-08-26T10:17:22 < dongs> maybe something super sekure
2020-08-26T10:17:35 < dongs> it touts some "secure boot" shit
2020-08-26T10:17:55 < dongs> with external encrypted flash and a key stored somewhere non-obvious it might actually deliver
2020-08-26T10:18:23 < ds2> so do many of the bigger arms
2020-08-26T10:18:34 < dongs> but they all run lunix, no?
2020-08-26T10:18:45 < ds2> they can run linux
2020-08-26T10:18:51 < ds2> no one requires you to do so
2020-08-26T10:18:54 < dongs> thats a no-go from beginning
2020-08-26T10:19:49 < dongs> huh does M7 core not have SWO?
2020-08-26T10:20:47 < dongs> ah it does
2020-08-26T10:20:56 < dongs> oddly debugging section in hardware design guide mentions nothing of that
2020-08-26T10:21:01 < dongs> i guess openAIDSsda doesn't suport uit
2020-08-26T10:21:39 < dongs> • ETM (Embedded Trace Macrocell) supporting instruction trace
2020-08-26T10:21:39 < dongs> • ITM (Instrumentation Trace Macrocell)
2020-08-26T10:21:39 < dongs> • TPIU (Trace Port Interface)
2020-08-26T10:23:04 < ds2> does JLink support SWO?
2020-08-26T10:23:12 < ds2> not that familiar with it 
2020-08-26T10:23:17 < dongs> of course
2020-08-26T10:23:23 < dongs> up to 100mhz on proper ones
2020-08-26T10:24:04 < ds2> does it just give you the last N instructions?
2020-08-26T10:24:34 < dongs> thats ETM, using 4? or whatever bit trace stuff
2020-08-26T10:24:40 < dongs> idk if that can go over swo
2020-08-26T10:25:01 < ds2> thought SWO was ETM for the Cortex-M's?
2020-08-26T10:25:06 < dongs> no
2020-08-26T10:25:13 < dongs> there's both
2020-08-26T10:25:32 < dongs> i dont think i ever seen anyone using ETM on M4s but bigger stm evalboards ahve the connector
2020-08-26T10:26:33 < ds2> is this the same ETM as what is found on the Cortex-A or the MMU enabled ARM9xx cores?
2020-08-26T10:27:30 < dongs> might be same or similar yeah. its the thing that does instruction/data trace
2020-08-26T10:27:57 < ds2> the ETM debuggers I have seen cost like $20K USD
2020-08-26T10:28:10 < ds2> with the mictor(sp?) connector
2020-08-26T10:28:52 < jadew`> "don't miss Yahoo Mobile’s $39.99/mo. unlimited phone plan" - no thanks, I get that for $4/mo
2020-08-26T10:29:15 < jadew`> I started getting more spam from yahoo lately
2020-08-26T10:29:22 < jadew`> I think they're getting desperate
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2020-08-26T10:38:01 < benishor> what a surprise, yahoo still exists
2020-08-26T10:42:39 < dongs> looks like usb-hs core is a synposis part
2020-08-26T10:42:50 < dongs> http://code.aiwac.net:10080/robot/dragonboard/blob/5df7ceafae9b0a0a93579e4e20c3cd19f6341aeb/linux-3.4/arch/arm/mach-tegra/usb_phy.c#L38 this matches with the datasheet
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2020-08-26T11:08:47 < zyp> how does that look like synopsys?
2020-08-26T11:08:55 < dongs> cuz i googled that register
2020-08-26T11:08:59 < dongs> and its all in synapsys related hsit
2020-08-26T11:09:07 < dongs> and tehres a bunch of other names that match
2020-08-26T11:09:16 < dongs> idk which one exactly tho
2020-08-26T11:09:49 < zyp> hmm, didn't know they had other popular usb ip than dwc_otg
2020-08-26T11:09:56 < zyp> and that does not look like dwc_otg
2020-08-26T11:10:30 < dongs> this is phy in particular, maybe thats from snyposys and core is something else?
2020-08-26T11:10:40 < dongs> i found soem references to 45nm ulpi phy
2020-08-26T11:12:10 < zyp> got a link to the datasheet?
2020-08-26T11:12:34 < dongs> i bet RM needs login
2020-08-26T11:12:35 < dongs> lemem check
2020-08-26T11:12:42 < dongs> https://www.nxp.com/webapp/Download?colCode=IMXRT1010RM
2020-08-26T11:12:49 < dongs> if it does ill toss it somewehre online
2020-08-26T11:13:14 < zyp> that's just asking me to sign in
2020-08-26T11:13:19 < zyp> so yeah
2020-08-26T11:13:26 < dongs> https://drive.google.com/file/d/1LF9LklvrlxGrtUrLLs-KZr5o6E6imNne/view?usp=sharing
2020-08-26T11:13:37 < zyp> also, what register name?
2020-08-26T11:13:41 < zyp> PORTSC1?
2020-08-26T11:13:52 < dongs> yes
2020-08-26T11:13:56 < dongs> and uh.. hold on
2020-08-26T11:14:14 < dongs> USB_USBCMD also
2020-08-26T11:14:19 < zyp> looks like it might be a standard EHCI register
2020-08-26T11:14:46 < zyp> https://www.intel.com/content/dam/www/public/us/en/documents/technical-specifications/ehci-specification-for-usb.pdf <- see page 27
2020-08-26T11:14:48 < dongs> usbcmd is where i saw shit related to 45nm integraed phy
2020-08-26T11:15:43 < dongs> USB_USBCMD 00080000h (00080B00h, if Asynchronous Schedule Park
2020-08-26T11:15:44 < dongs> Capability is one)
2020-08-26T11:15:46 < dongs> haha, exactl asme text
2020-08-26T11:15:49 < dongs> in the 1010 RM
2020-08-26T11:17:52 < zyp> yeah, so it's just EHCI then
2020-08-26T11:18:15 < dongs> Selective suspend is a feature supported by every USB_PORTSC1 register. It is used to
2020-08-26T11:18:18 < dongs> place specific ports into a suspend mode. This feature is used as a functional component
2020-08-26T11:18:21 < dongs> for implementing the appropriate power management policy implemented in a particular
2020-08-26T11:18:24 < dongs> operating system. When system software intends to suspend the entire bus, it should
2020-08-26T11:18:27 < dongs> selectively suspend all enabled ports, then shut off the host controller by setting the Run/
2020-08-26T11:18:30 < dongs> Stop bit in the USB_USBCMD register to zero. The EHCI sub-block can then be placed
2020-08-26T11:18:33 < dongs> into a lower device state through the PCI power management interface (see Appendix A,
2020-08-26T11:18:36 < dongs> Enhanced Host Controller Interface Specification for Universal Serial Bus, Revision
2020-08-26T11:18:39 < dongs> 0.95, November 2000, Intel Corporation. http://www.intel.com).
2020-08-26T11:18:42 < dongs> wait what the fuck
2020-08-26T11:18:44 < dongs> why does it say PCI
2020-08-26T11:18:47 < dongs> on this fucking mcu
2020-08-26T11:18:49 < dongs> did they just copypaste the shit
2020-08-26T11:18:56 < zyp> probably
2020-08-26T11:19:24 < zyp> the usb otg chapters in the stm32 reference manuals are also just copypasted from the dwc_otg databook
2020-08-26T11:21:16 < PaulFertser> ds2: tracing is possible via SWO and it can be used (under certain conditions) even without any expensive equipment (12 MHz UART or LA is enough): http://essentialscrap.com/tips/arm_trace/
2020-08-26T11:23:43 < PaulFertser> ds2: and there's https://github.com/orbcode/orbuculum , they provide parallel trace FPGA configuration for ice40-HX8K (which is rather cheap too).
2020-08-26T11:27:53 < dongs> > The software runs on both Linux and OSX.
2020-08-26T11:28:00 < dongs> they don't carea bout their audience do they
2020-08-26T11:31:21 < PaulFertser> Or probably your idea of their target audience differs from theirs.
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2020-08-26T11:46:04 < ds2> PaulFertser: Thanks
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2020-08-26T11:55:40 < karlp> what imx eval is TOO CHEAP dongs?
2020-08-26T11:55:49 < karlp> oh, right, the 1010 rt thing
2020-08-26T11:55:53  * karlp shoudl finish reading first
2020-08-26T11:56:59 < dongs> yes that one
2020-08-26T11:57:02 < dongs> it was like 39 or someshit
2020-08-26T12:00:20 < karlp> teensy dude is pushing on imxrt now too.
2020-08-26T12:00:31 < karlp> got sick of trying to push kinetis that no-one realyl wanted.
2020-08-26T12:01:53 < dongs> lol teensy that fucking shithead
2020-08-26T12:01:58 < dongs> what was he doign with kinetis?
2020-08-26T12:02:32 < dongs> oh wow the whole teensy 2/3 shit is kinetis
2020-08-26T12:02:36 < dongs> wtf 4.0 too
2020-08-26T12:02:45 < dongs> i guess shitzy 4.1 is imxrt
2020-08-26T12:03:17 < karlp> yup
2020-08-26T12:03:39 < dongs> https://www.pjrc.com/store/teensy40.html imagine buying this and loading a retarduino blink.ino on that
2020-08-26T12:03:58 < dongs> and wasting a 300-ball BGA with ~20 connectors
2020-08-26T12:04:26 < dongs> When running at 600 MHz, Teensy 4.0 consumes approximately 100 mA current. nice
2020-08-26T12:04:30 < karlp> I kinda like it though, teensy was always, "pay the same price as branded arduino, get _wayyyyyyyyy_ more performance"
2020-08-26T12:04:39 < karlp> bitbang all the things!
2020-08-26T12:04:43 < karlp> busywait for everything!
2020-08-26T12:04:53 < dongs> yeah but then you have to use shit made by paul "fat fuck" stoffebeerger
2020-08-26T12:05:18 < karlp> eh, I vastly preferred it to arduino when I was getting back into things, have a couple of teensy 2.0s I think
2020-08-26T12:05:34 < karlp> but yeah, when he went down kinetis land it was ... what? you're not even sort of comaptile now.
2020-08-26T12:06:06 < karlp> ok, so running our gateway down to 4.5V will occasioanlly brown out. good to kow.
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2020-08-26T17:45:00 < jadew`> probably old news, but people have started shooting each other in the US
2020-08-26T17:46:53 < jadew`> wow, liveleak is censored to shit
2020-08-26T17:51:25 < karlp> people in the us have always been shooting each other?
2020-08-26T17:51:52 < jadew`> well, now they're shooting each other at these protests that seem to always be going on
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2020-08-26T18:02:59 < jadew`> apparently regular people formed militias to protect private property
2020-08-26T18:03:13 < jadew`> several protesters got shot, two died
2020-08-26T18:04:32 < benishor> freedoooom
2020-08-26T18:05:58 < Cracki> epidemics of civil war
2020-08-26T18:06:33 < Cracki> we need to issue anticommunist literature to everyone before it spreads
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2020-08-26T23:16:38 < catphish> morning
2020-08-26T23:18:52 < Steffanx> GOOOOODAY SIR
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--- Day changed Thu Aug 27 2020
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2020-08-27T00:35:38 < karlp> heh, ali just offered me "estimated delivery date 3 november"
2020-08-27T00:35:41 < karlp> how about fuck no
2020-08-27T00:39:03 < Steffanx> Here they seem surprisingly fast again. 2-3 weeks
2020-08-27T00:40:09 < Steffanx> Shit goes in bulk to belgium and the last few times it stayed there for weeks. Now its only there a few days, like the old times
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2020-08-27T00:45:58 < Steffanx> Wheres the usual delay when stuff goes to iceland mr karlp?
2020-08-27T00:46:05 < Steffanx> In iceland itself?
2020-08-27T00:47:53 < karlp> random
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2020-08-27T01:41:49 < Cracki> scots don't check their own language wikipedia? no scot runs that place?
2020-08-27T01:42:16 < Cracki> for SEVEN years nobody noticed or cared?
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2020-08-27T01:45:32 < Cracki> >no pronouns so everyone says "they"
2020-08-27T01:50:20 < Cracki> choose Über, then Schnell, schnell! http://german-ipsum.herokuapp.com/
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2020-08-27T01:57:02 < Cracki> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5m6Czgl1acU
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2020-08-27T02:09:50 < Cracki> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5XHCM7t1fkc
2020-08-27T02:14:41 < Laurenceb_> > some 17 year old teen boomer incel midwestoid just got 3 kills in minecraft 
2020-08-27T02:18:13 < Cracki> "in minecraft"
2020-08-27T02:18:22 < Cracki> gief livestream
2020-08-27T02:18:31 < Laurenceb_> prob on bbc news
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2020-08-27T02:19:09 < Cracki> I know there's shit going down in kenosha but that's not it, is it
2020-08-27T02:19:28 < Laurenceb_> yeah
2020-08-27T02:19:37 < Laurenceb_> ppl getting fortnighted 
2020-08-27T02:19:52 < Cracki> https://pbs.twimg.com/media/EgYfUqkWkAAms2R?format=jpg&name=orig
2020-08-27T02:19:57 < Cracki> *flossing*
2020-08-27T02:20:49 < Cracki> has anyone ever told them to stop resisting arrest? I mean other than the officers who tell them to stop resisting arrest?
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2020-08-27T02:21:38 < Laurenceb_> sheettttt
2020-08-27T02:21:40 < Laurenceb_> https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-derbyshire-51581515
2020-08-27T02:21:45 < Cracki> >uk
2020-08-27T02:21:46 < Laurenceb_> this is way too close to home
2020-08-27T02:22:16 < Laurenceb_> fortnighting is only supposed to happen in minecraft
2020-08-27T02:22:30 < Cracki> is he touched in the head to be attacking random people with that thing?
2020-08-27T02:22:48 < Laurenceb_> >the foss
2020-08-27T02:22:55 < Cracki> the wat
2020-08-27T02:23:03 < Laurenceb_> psycho spotted
2020-08-27T02:23:03 < Cracki> fossa is something anatomical
2020-08-27T02:23:19 < Laurenceb_> lmao
2020-08-27T02:23:19 < Cracki> foss as in hippie bits?
2020-08-27T02:23:29 < Cracki> ah, the floss
2020-08-27T02:23:32 < Cracki> yeah everyone knows that
2020-08-27T02:24:18 < jadew`> is the guy with the bat from portland or the UK?
2020-08-27T02:24:26 < Laurenceb_> UK
2020-08-27T02:24:46 < jadew`> jeez... this shit is everywhere?
2020-08-27T02:25:03 < Laurenceb_> lol pretty much
2020-08-27T02:25:07 < Cracki> they're going crazy. it's a reaction to everyone else going crazy.
2020-08-27T02:25:22 < Laurenceb_> >only 8 years for that
2020-08-27T02:25:25 < Cracki> look up estimates for psychopathy. I've heard numbers around 1 in 100
2020-08-27T02:25:42 < Laurenceb_> unironically death sentence tbh
2020-08-27T02:26:14 < Cracki> take that population of psychos, assume most can learn to live with their damage because the law has severe enough consequences, and the rest is becoming criminals
2020-08-27T02:26:34 < Cracki> but that's random nutjobs with some wires loose
2020-08-27T02:26:39 < Laurenceb_> its funny because my dad used to live in that village
2020-08-27T02:26:44 < Cracki> that doesn't explain the race wars in murica
2020-08-27T02:26:59 < Laurenceb_> until someone attacked his car with a sledge hammer for the lulz
2020-08-27T02:26:59 < Cracki> those actually show how gullible the average "citizen" is
2020-08-27T02:27:21 < Cracki> do you brits get chemicals in the water maybe?
2020-08-27T02:27:23 < Laurenceb_> that place is notorious for psychos for some reason
2020-08-27T02:27:44 < Laurenceb_> yeah something is not right, there are a ton of wack jobs from one village
2020-08-27T02:27:49 < Laurenceb_> like my dad... oh wait
2020-08-27T02:28:05 < Cracki> epidemics of various types of collective insanity DO happen.
2020-08-27T02:28:22 < Laurenceb_> there is an old lead mine nearby, probably explains it
2020-08-27T02:28:31 < Laurenceb_> lead poisoning from the water
2020-08-27T02:28:32 < Cracki> a friend of mine grew up in an environment (school) where they all were either trying to break their own bones or cut themselves.
2020-08-27T02:28:44 < Cracki> it spreads. there must be some attraction to these insane acts.
2020-08-27T02:29:17 < Cracki> literally, they were smashing their limbs against hard objects with the aim of breaking their bones. I don't understand it.
2020-08-27T02:30:06 < Cracki> https://twitter.com/ritapanahi/status/ remove this space 1298756006873190400
2020-08-27T02:30:36 < Cracki> that's the most recent shit I can find them going crazy over. they attack him, he defends himself, they lose their minds once more
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2020-08-27T02:36:19 < Laurenceb_> >Can’t wait for Joe Biden rallies to be hit by Qanon suicide scooter bombers. 
2020-08-27T02:36:22 < Laurenceb_> kek 
2020-08-27T02:36:26 < Laurenceb_> ywlts this
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2020-08-27T02:45:07 < Cracki> they doxed the kid as being hispanic. wonder how they'll spin that as huwhyte s'premacist
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2020-08-27T02:49:19 < Cracki> lol the kid is said to be a pro-blm libertarian who tried to protect local businesses
2020-08-27T02:52:48 < Laurenceb_> oh wow
2020-08-27T02:52:51 < Laurenceb_> https://www.liverpoolecho.co.uk/whats-on/shopping/street-style-bold-street-special-3395606
2020-08-27T02:52:58 < Cracki> >liverpool
2020-08-27T02:53:01 < Laurenceb_> a weeboo
2020-08-27T02:53:08 < Laurenceb_> who could have predicted this
2020-08-27T02:53:21 < Laurenceb_> the 8kun global mod
2020-08-27T02:53:35 < Cracki> I must be incredibly racist but everything I hear off that island I expect to be the weirdest possible insanity
2020-08-27T02:53:37 < Laurenceb_> she has serious weirdface
2020-08-27T02:54:00 < Cracki> thigh highs, not a femboy, how dare she
2020-08-27T02:54:14 < Laurenceb_> she used to post nudes to /b/
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2020-08-27T02:54:47 < Laurenceb_> attention whore spotted
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2020-08-27T05:14:16 < ColdKeyboard> Damn you ARM... I'm so used to it that I tried to print out a debug string over uart on 8 bit PIC and I'm looking why code is not compiling when it was compling fine just seconds ago... then I see a message saying not enough program space. lmao
2020-08-27T05:15:09 < ColdKeyboard> Like 3.5KB sounded like a huge program space years ago... :)
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2020-08-27T09:58:25 < rapha> hi
2020-08-27T09:58:43 < rapha> i'm trying to convert an stlinkv2 to bmp, failing
2020-08-27T09:58:59 < rapha> "56/96 pages written2020-08-27T08:58:12 ERROR flash_loader.c: flash loader run error" probably means it's not one of the chips with enough memory beyond the unreported
2020-08-27T09:59:55 < rapha> is there another firmware that i can put on it or is it a paper weight now?
2020-08-27T10:00:16 < srk> hey
2020-08-27T10:00:21 < srk> flashing with dfu?
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2020-08-27T10:02:41 < srk> there was a way to force writes if it's really 128Kb
2020-08-27T10:03:04 < srk> dfu-util -a 0 -s 0x08002000:leave:force -D blackmagic.bin
2020-08-27T10:03:30 < rapha> oh, "st-flash --flash=0x20000 --reset write src/blackmagic.bin 0x8002000" wouldn't do that?
2020-08-27T10:03:54 < rapha> (no idea what dfu is ... i have a second stlink connected to it by soldering wires onto the solderpoints on the board)
2020-08-27T10:03:59  * rapha tries
2020-08-27T10:04:01 < srk> yeah, found that as well
2020-08-27T10:04:18 < srk> st-flash --flash=128k write blackmagic.bin 0x8002000
2020-08-27T10:04:55 < srk> I usually upload only bootloader via SWD to it and then proceed with dfu-util to test that bootloader works but either way should work
2020-08-27T10:05:22 < rapha> ah, 128k must be the same as 0x20000
2020-08-27T10:05:30 < rapha> hmm
2020-08-27T10:05:55 < rapha> st-flash --flash=0x20000 write src/blackmagic_dfu.bin 0x8000000 worked fine
2020-08-27T10:06:04 < rapha> if that's the bootloader...?
2020-08-27T10:06:33 < srk> yup, you can see that blackmagic.bin is loaded to 0x8002000 where bootloader loads it
2020-08-27T10:06:35 < rapha> woah cool it's on USB now :)
2020-08-27T10:07:15 < rapha> but:
2020-08-27T10:07:17 < rapha> dfu-util: Cannot open DFU device 1d50:6017
2020-08-27T10:07:19 < rapha> dfu-util: No DFU capable USB device available
2020-08-27T10:07:36 < srk> sudo? 
2020-08-27T10:07:48 < rapha> ah, stuff happening
2020-08-27T10:08:15 < rapha> o_O
2020-08-27T10:08:16 < rapha> 100%
2020-08-27T10:08:18 < rapha> dafuq
2020-08-27T10:08:26 < srk> magic :D
2020-08-27T10:08:35 < rapha> buuut
2020-08-27T10:08:37 < rapha> now
2020-08-27T10:08:39 < rapha> unable to enumerate
2020-08-27T10:08:52 < rapha> so i guess that only _pretend_ worked?
2020-08-27T10:08:59 < rapha> because it's not 128k afterall?
2020-08-27T10:09:24 < srk> hmmm
2020-08-27T10:10:35 < PaulFertser> rapha: is that an original stlink or clone?
2020-08-27T10:10:39 < rapha> i think that broke it
2020-08-27T10:10:49 < rapha> can't flash bootloader anymore 
2020-08-27T10:10:54 < rapha> can't unlock anymore
2020-08-27T10:11:02 < rapha> PaulFertser: clone ofc ... poor student here :P
2020-08-27T10:11:16 < PaulFertser> rapha: I mean some clones are known to not have 128k flash.
2020-08-27T10:11:53 < PaulFertser> rapha: in any case you should be able to connect to it via SWD with SRST pulled low or BOOT0 set to UART bootloader mode.
2020-08-27T10:14:00 < rapha> PaulFertser: yes, that worked. dfu bootloader written again.
2020-08-27T10:14:04 < rapha> still, it
2020-08-27T10:14:10 < rapha> 's not going to be a BMP i guess
2020-08-27T10:14:20 < srk> I might have a version that fits 64kb 
2020-08-27T10:14:23 < PaulFertser> rapha: iirc BMP used to fit into 64k
2020-08-27T10:14:31 < rapha> yes, that's what the README says
2020-08-27T10:14:32 < srk> yup
2020-08-27T10:14:47 < PaulFertser> So probably you're compiling it wrong
2020-08-27T10:14:52 < PaulFertser> Or you can flash stlink back
2020-08-27T10:14:57 < srk> src.2019-02-26 $ arm-none-eabi-size blackmagic
2020-08-27T10:14:57 < srk>    text	   data	    bss	    dec	    hex	filename
2020-08-27T10:14:59 < srk>   60096	    564	   2608	  63268	   f724	blackmagic
2020-08-27T10:15:00 < rapha> if i could turn it back into an stlink, then i could swap the stlink's out and try the other one
2020-08-27T10:15:14 < rapha> hmm not much to do wrong with the compilation tbh
2020-08-27T10:15:27 < rapha> it's just "make PROBE_HOST=stlink", and that's that
2020-08-27T10:15:38 < PaulFertser> rapha: flash original stlink bootloader https://github.com/Krakenw/Stlink-Bootloaders
2020-08-27T10:16:17 < rapha> you run that on the ELF file, right, srk? mine is 97100     272    3000  100372   18814
2020-08-27T10:16:42 < srk> try if this one fits http://48.io/~rmarko/blackmagic.bin
2020-08-27T10:17:55 < PaulFertser> rapha: and you can do that without attaching SWD and changing the bootloader even https://lujji.github.io/blog/installing-blackmagic-via-stlink-bootloader/
2020-08-27T10:18:02  * rapha tries
2020-08-27T10:18:22 < rapha> oh interesting
2020-08-27T10:18:30 < rapha> Download [======================== ]  96%        58368 bytesdfu-util: Error during download get_status
2020-08-27T10:18:37 < rapha> even though this one was _smaller_
2020-08-27T10:19:18 < rapha> okay, time to re-flash stlink bootloader and swap them out and try Paul's link i guess
2020-08-27T10:19:57 < rapha> what
2020-08-27T10:20:14 < rapha> 's the deal with "protected" vs "unprotected" in the original bootloaders? protected from what?
2020-08-27T10:23:10 < rapha> "st-flash --flash=0x20000 write ../Stlink-Bootloaders/Unprotected-2-0-Bootloader.bin 0x8000000" => " 11/16 pages written2020-08-27T09:22:29 ERROR flash_loader.c: flash loader run error" o_O ... the bmp_dfu one fits, but this one is too big?
2020-08-27T10:23:49 < rapha> oh, okay, MUCH bigger that stlink bootloader file
2020-08-27T10:25:23 < srk> hmm, the one I've sent you is still too large with the bootloader.. 0x10000 - (60096 + 0x2000) = -2752.. looks like it would fit without bl, not sure
2020-08-27T10:25:53 < rapha> and here i thought the bootloader was required 
2020-08-27T10:26:16 < srk> found another one lol.. src/blackmagic.bin.64k
2020-08-27T10:26:34 < rapha> so the way to try that (since i still have the wires soldered) would be to flash the firmware to 0x0?
2020-08-27T10:26:49 < srk> yes, try that
2020-08-27T10:27:03 < rapha> via DFU or via SWD?
2020-08-27T10:27:10 < srk> SWD
2020-08-27T10:27:53 < srk> I'm not sure if it's built with the bootloader offset tho, it might not work if that's the case
2020-08-27T10:28:02 < rapha> so, st-flash --flash=128k write src/blackmagic-20190226.bin 0x0 ?
2020-08-27T10:28:36 < rapha> hmm no, "unknown memory region"
2020-08-27T10:29:08 < srk> ah, sorry - 0x8000000
2020-08-27T10:29:30 < rapha> hmm no
2020-08-27T10:29:34 < rapha> only 11 pages written
2020-08-27T10:29:46 < rapha> aha!
2020-08-27T10:29:56 < rapha> if i tell it, dude, you only have 64k, then it writes all pages
2020-08-27T10:30:17 < rapha> buuut device not enumerating
2020-08-27T10:32:36 < rapha> but learned enough to be able to flash the stlink firmware again :)
2020-08-27T10:32:48 < rapha> so now the paul method with the other one
2020-08-27T10:33:09 < srk> yeah, start address mismatch, maybe try one more time, loading both bootloader and fw without flash override
2020-08-27T10:33:19 < rapha> hmm okay
2020-08-27T10:34:47 < srk> heh, here's "Stripping down the firmware" section https://primalcortex.wordpress.com/2017/06/13/building-a-black-magic-debug-probe/ :D
2020-08-27T10:35:00 < rapha> so (1) flash bootloader to 0x8000000, then (2) flash blackmagic-20190226.bin to 0x8002000, both without flash size override
2020-08-27T10:35:05  * srk tries if it's still that easy
2020-08-27T10:35:11 < srk> correct
2020-08-27T10:35:37 < rapha> hmm weird
2020-08-27T10:35:42 < rapha> that also gives addr too high
2020-08-27T10:36:01 < rapha> so that binary you uploaded was intended for 128k afterall
2020-08-27T10:36:41 < srk> fails right at start or while uploading?
2020-08-27T10:37:36 < rapha> oh wait, i tried that via SWD where i should have tried via DFU
2020-08-27T10:37:40 < rapha> (right at the start)
2020-08-27T10:38:05 < srk> it should work via SWD as well
2020-08-27T10:38:22 < rapha> hmm that's where it complained right away
2020-08-27T10:38:45 < rapha> in "sudo dfu-util -a 0 -s 0x08002000:leave:force -D src/blackmagic-20190226.bin", i take it one might want to remove the "force" now?
2020-08-27T10:39:23 < rapha> oh, damn ... 9:40 ... need to go over to the doctor to get my operation wound inspected
2020-08-27T10:39:25 < rapha> tbc!
2020-08-27T11:05:13 < srk> ok, the trick with commenting out bunch of PROBE macros from src/target/cortexm.c still works and reduces text size from 85872 to 58628. nice
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2020-08-27T12:05:59 < karlp> why spend all this time to turn a functional debug probe into a functional debug probe?
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2020-08-27T12:32:24 < rapha> karlp: to try out stuff?
2020-08-27T12:33:12 < karlp> what are you trying out?
2020-08-27T12:34:13 < karlp> how to solder to your china board?
2020-08-27T12:35:13 < srk> to save time fiddling with openocd or st-flash later :)
2020-08-27T12:36:11 < karlp> so you can fiddle with _another_ tool :)
2020-08-27T12:38:36 < srk> which one? it makes it require one *less* tool, as gdb server is implemented on the mcu so you can just do target extended-remote in gdb and be done
2020-08-27T12:38:53 < karlp> well, you still have bmp to manage
2020-08-27T12:39:07 < karlp> reflash to get new mcu support, new commands to use
2020-08-27T12:39:35 < srk> sure, but that's rarely needed and easy to update using dfu
2020-08-27T12:39:44 < srk> same holds for stlink fw
2020-08-27T12:40:29 < srk> which is arguably more painful since it requires some java thingie from vendor
2020-08-27T12:40:45 < rapha> hmm
2020-08-27T12:40:48 < rapha> bad day today karlp?
2020-08-27T12:41:43 < rapha> oh, i even get to ditch a java thingie?
2020-08-27T12:41:53  * rapha restarts his efforts with renewed vigor
2020-08-27T12:42:24 < karlp> srk: no, you don't need to update stlink firmware for new mcu support
2020-08-27T12:44:53 < srk> cool, I've had to update stlink v3 on nucleo G4 board recently so it works with oocd/blackmagic-hosted
2020-08-27T12:45:22 < srk> rapha: btw blackmagic-esp8266 seems also viable if you have one spare esp
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2020-08-27T12:46:18 < srk> karlp: does the v2 support UART passthru?
2020-08-27T12:46:59 < rapha> srk: i like the form factor of these though. with the ESP I'll have to design and print a casing again first and blah blah yadda yadda
2020-08-27T12:47:06 < rapha> hmm
2020-08-27T12:47:25 < rapha> the URL Paul gave isn't for the faint of heart either though
2020-08-27T12:47:31 < rapha> might be quicker to solder wires again
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2020-08-27T12:50:32 < rapha> PaulFertser: " First of all, we alter the linker script and set ROM length to 128k. " - by that he means the Makefile? 
2020-08-27T12:50:43 < rapha> (which doesn't seem to do any linking separately, weird)
2020-08-27T12:56:22 < rapha> PaulFertser: nm, seems it has evolved to include that: https://gist.github.com/sixtyfive/1262b083ce1b4fe46e72be8b8a5384ca
2020-08-27T12:57:52 < rapha> and SCB_VTOR is now an extern uint32_t vector_table. not sure if the instructions from that blogpost _can_ be followed anymore.
2020-08-27T12:59:56 < rapha> Hmm, it's from 2017.
2020-08-27T13:00:40 < rapha> Okay, I will grow old and die if I attempt this. Soldering iron is much less work.
2020-08-27T13:04:20 < karlp> how's the actual project itself coming along ;)
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2020-08-27T13:10:09 < rapha> er
2020-08-27T13:10:14 < rapha> i have a project?
2020-08-27T13:10:48 < rapha> rn i thought my projects were: (1) put bmp on an stlink and play with it, (2) get my first own 3d printer to work and play with it
2020-08-27T13:11:18 < rapha> if you mean the lamp, i don't want to work on that until i (mostly) have usage of my right arm back
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2020-08-27T13:22:39 < rapha> interesting
2020-08-27T13:23:05 < rapha> my other stlink is a "CKS32F103C8T6"
2020-08-27T13:23:23 < rapha> so not only do they copy ST, they're also not shy about putting their own brand logo on the cip
2020-08-27T13:23:26 < rapha> chip*
2020-08-27T13:28:06  * rapha will order another one out of curiosity and hope he'll get it in green, which would look nice together with the red and the pink one
2020-08-27T13:28:43 < rapha> curisously enough, aliexpress is devoid of st-link v2-1
2020-08-27T13:31:12 < rapha> PaulFertser: https://sudonull.com/post/32259-Making-ST-Link-V21-from-Chinese-ST-Link-V2 - this has positively funny English, too :)
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2020-08-27T13:31:33 < rapha> ("I did it this way: we also solder food.")
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2020-08-27T13:35:19 < mawk> I'd solder me some food right now yes
2020-08-27T13:36:04 < mawk> how did you lose your right arm rapha ?
2020-08-27T13:36:10 < mawk> I lost mine too, what a coincidence
2020-08-27T13:36:13 < mawk> did you overdose as well ?
2020-08-27T13:37:47 < rapha> mawk: decided to go trailblazing with my racing bike. there was a 1m wide, 1m deep ditch in the middle of the track which was invisible until the very last moment. went sailing at 30kph, impacted the ground should-first. clavicula fractured, was lucky that it wasn't an open one. now i have titanium inside of me.
2020-08-27T13:38:22 < rapha> overdose? you mean on the pain meds after the operation? no, although having to take opioids was a little scary tbh.
2020-08-27T13:39:36 < rapha> Wait, you _LOST_ your arm _for good_ mawk?!
2020-08-27T13:40:05 < mawk> no it came back after 1 year
2020-08-27T13:40:29 < mawk> no I did a plain old overdose and slept for 10 hours on my arm without moving
2020-08-27T13:40:34 < mawk> and the nerves didn't like it
2020-08-27T13:41:17 < mawk> the bracchial plexus under the shoulder specifically
2020-08-27T13:41:20 < mawk> all crushed
2020-08-27T13:41:24 < rapha> fuuuuuuuck
2020-08-27T13:41:31 < rapha> i didn't know that was possible
2020-08-27T13:41:38 < mawk> me neither lol
2020-08-27T13:41:44 < mawk> it happens with alcoholics as well apparently
2020-08-27T13:41:48 < mawk> it's called the lover's syndrome
2020-08-27T13:41:53 < rapha> ouch
2020-08-27T13:42:02 < mawk> like when you sleep with your arm under your lover, and when you wake up it's all numb for a few hours
2020-08-27T13:42:06 < rapha> already lost two ppl to alcoholism
2020-08-27T13:42:07 < mawk> it's like this but during 1 year
2020-08-27T13:42:09 < rapha> take care of yourself man
2020-08-27T13:42:18 < mawk> I don't drink don't worry
2020-08-27T13:42:23 < mawk> alcohol is worst drug ever
2020-08-27T13:42:25 < rapha> (and one friend to crystal)
2020-08-27T13:42:34 < rapha> sure is, esp since it's so underrated
2020-08-27T13:43:00 < mawk> good thing is I learnt to write with my left hand
2020-08-27T13:43:09 < mawk> I still can today, just a bit slower than with the right hand
2020-08-27T13:43:37 < rapha> so basically you got ambidextrosity (is that a word?) out of it :)
2020-08-27T13:43:44  * rapha is a lefty already
2020-08-27T13:43:46 < mawk> lol
2020-08-27T13:43:50 < mawk> ah good
2020-08-27T13:44:03 < mawk> you got lucky
2020-08-27T13:44:09 < rapha> yeah
2020-08-27T13:44:14 < rapha> can still fiddle with things
2020-08-27T13:44:32 < rapha> which gf is also happy about :P
2020-08-27T13:44:37 < mawk> lol
2020-08-27T13:44:48 < mawk> I met my gf when I had no arm anymore
2020-08-27T13:44:53 < mawk> she secretely thought it was cute probably
2020-08-27T13:45:22 < mawk> the hardest part was rolling cigarettes
2020-08-27T13:45:24 < mawk> I think
2020-08-27T13:45:26 < rapha> did you just have it dangling off the side? or did you keep it in one of those harnesses?
2020-08-27T13:45:41 < rapha> yeah, women love shit like that for some reason
2020-08-27T13:45:48 < mawk> I just had a single band to keep it close to me
2020-08-27T13:45:56 < rapha> although mine was (mentally) thrown off track by this more than myself
2020-08-27T13:47:16 < mawk> it made me realize how heavy an arm is
2020-08-27T13:47:41 < rapha> hmm okay if having an stm32f103cB on this little thing makes it that much of a cooler debugger, i'll cease the experimentation for today, order one of those guys from ali, and make karlp even happier by putting even more (soldering) effort into this little subproject :P
2020-08-27T13:48:02 < rapha> mawk: try lifting a fallen-asleep _leg_ :P
2020-08-27T13:48:16 < mawk> lol
2020-08-27T14:00:10 < rapha> okay, off to physiotherapy
2020-08-27T14:00:15 < rapha> see y'all laterds
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2020-08-27T16:23:03 < jadew`> what's the cheapest way to get Ethernet and USB connectivity?
2020-08-27T16:23:50 < jpa-> to what?
2020-08-27T16:24:16 < jpa-> you mean cheapest stm32 with ethernet & usb?
2020-08-27T16:24:23 < jadew`> yeah
2020-08-27T16:24:36 < jadew`> or stm32 + something else, if it's cheaper/better
2020-08-27T16:25:15 < jpa-> digikey search suggests STM32F750 @ 5.42 USD
2020-08-27T16:25:43 < jpa-> it at least has enough cpu and ram for most stuff
2020-08-27T16:28:09 < jadew`> looks good
2020-08-27T16:28:11 < jadew`> thanks
2020-08-27T16:28:21 < jpa-> https://www.digikey.com/product-detail/en/nuvoton-technology-corporation-of-america/M483SE8AE/816-M483SE8AE-ND/12337413   cheaper, but i've never even heard about nuvoton
2020-08-27T16:28:28 < jadew`> I might actually have a dev board for it, I have to check
2020-08-27T16:28:51 < jadew`> eh, just a couple of bucks
2020-08-27T16:29:25 < jpa-> https://www.digikey.com/product-detail/en/microchip-technology/ATSAME53J18A-AU/ATSAME53J18A-AU-ND/7390365   4.09 USD
2020-08-27T16:32:04 < jadew`> already have a dev board for the F7
2020-08-27T16:32:06 < jadew`> I'll use that one
2020-08-27T16:32:23 < jadew`> I was hoping I wouldn't have everything needed to start work right away lol
2020-08-27T16:32:35 < jadew`> guess I have no excuse now
2020-08-27T16:32:49 < PaulFertser> Nuvoton seems to be popular MCU designer in China, using Cortex-M cores.
2020-08-27T16:33:55 < Steffanx> F107RB is cheaper @ lcsc
2020-08-27T16:34:27 < Steffanx> Like $3.52
2020-08-27T16:34:36 < Steffanx> For just 1
2020-08-27T16:35:19 < jadew`> what's that with VAT and custom taxes?
2020-08-27T16:35:27 < jadew`> *customs
2020-08-27T16:36:23 < jadew`> I like the atmel part too, but I don't have a dev kit
2020-08-27T16:36:26 < jadew`> so this will have to do
2020-08-27T16:39:53 < Steffanx> Those Digikey prices arent with taxes either, are they
2020-08-27T16:39:55 < Steffanx> ?
2020-08-27T16:40:07 < jadew`> you're right, they're not
2020-08-27T16:41:25 < jadew`> the F7 will end up costing about $6.4 after taxes
2020-08-27T16:44:38 < jadew`> I need to find an enclosure again...
2020-08-27T16:44:50 < jadew`> that's the worst part of any project
2020-08-27T16:51:11 < Steffanx> Lcsc has a shitload of random unknown chinese cortex-mwhatever mcus 
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2020-08-27T17:04:05 < rapha> wait, so there's a SAME and that's like the bigger brother of the SAMD?
2020-08-27T17:04:07 < rapha> cool...
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2020-08-27T17:47:00 < Steffanx> There are more SAMs, rapha ;)
2020-08-27T17:47:29 < Steffanx> C, 4E, S
2020-08-27T18:06:41 < rapha> oh go figure!
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2020-08-27T18:55:33 < R2COM> Reset,NMI and HardFault are permanently enabled afaik
2020-08-27T18:56:00 < R2COM> but should user have ability in his CMSIS implementation to manually enable/ disable the SVCall, PendSV, SysTick ?
2020-08-27T18:56:19 < R2COM> (i know user has ability to enable/disable any IRQ) but what about above mentioned exceptions
2020-08-27T18:58:38 < R2COM> SETENA in NVIC docs of arm is 31 bit register
2020-08-27T18:58:43 < R2COM> each bit for interrupt
2020-08-27T18:59:06 < R2COM> and in their default software function description they say "Enables an interrupt or exception"
2020-08-27T18:59:09 < R2COM> stupid shit
2020-08-27T18:59:20 < R2COM> cannot make a document without contradicting statements
2020-08-27T18:59:35 < R2COM> so obviously SETENA is only for setting IRQs
2020-08-27T18:59:38 < R2COM> not exceptions
2020-08-27T19:07:04 < jpa-> but "A interrupt, or IRQ, is an exception signaled by a peripheral, or generated by a software request."
2020-08-27T19:12:15 < R2COM> interrupts fall under exception yes, but EnableIRQ function in CMSIS official one is for interrupt only
2020-08-27T19:12:32 < R2COM> but in description it says it can set interrupts OR exception which is wrong
2020-08-27T19:12:44 < R2COM> anyway i understand it now its just shitty document
2020-08-27T19:13:10 < jpa-> yeah
2020-08-27T19:13:46 < R2COM> in that document they also say that IPSR returns the exception number
2020-08-27T19:13:50 < R2COM> which is always positive number
2020-08-27T19:14:06 < R2COM> so it makes sense just to work with those rather using negative numbers for exceptions
2020-08-27T19:14:19 < R2COM> exception: positive numbers , unordered
2020-08-27T19:14:22 < jpa-> i never understood why they even make the distinction
2020-08-27T19:14:25 < R2COM> interrupts: ordered, but start from 16
2020-08-27T19:14:41 < R2COM> so in my version of cmsis ill use positive numbers only
2020-08-27T19:14:56 < R2COM> since its natural...cuz asm instruction of getting IPSR returns always positive number
2020-08-27T19:43:47 < jadew`> mouser has 1, 2, 5 and 10:00 AM as a filter option for the forward current on diodes
2020-08-27T19:44:49 < Steffanx> 10:00 AM 
2020-08-27T19:45:14 < jadew`> it sounds like the most reasonable one, yeah
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2020-08-27T20:57:37 < karlp> sam5e family looks good onn paper, heard it has some funcky errata or something though
2020-08-27T20:57:41 < karlp> didn't english do something with it?
2020-08-27T20:57:51 < karlp> nice cost down from older sam parts, thanks microchip
2020-08-27T21:09:54 < jpa-> i wonder if microchip will be able to keep up their part longevity with the amount of new products they're introducing
2020-08-27T21:10:24 < jpa-> though i guess their "as long as someone is buying" does not count niche products that are manyfactured a few units per year
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2020-08-27T22:10:06 < bitmask> if you were gonna extend stepper motor leads, would you just solder + heat shrink?
2020-08-27T22:27:16 < Cracki> you aren't gonna go solderless and give everything ferrules, eh?
2020-08-27T22:27:53 < Cracki> or are you asking about EMI
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2020-08-27T22:36:30 < bitmask> just what would you do to extend the wires
2020-08-27T22:36:39 < bitmask> for whatever reason
2020-08-27T22:37:25 < Ultrasauce> punch-down terminals might be nice
2020-08-27T22:42:01 < bitmask> have a link?
2020-08-27T22:42:53 < bitmask> everything I see is for tons of connections
2020-08-27T22:43:50 < Ultrasauce> nope its just what the thing i am currently tinkering with uses lol
2020-08-27T22:44:45 < Ultrasauce> do you need more than a couple of reassembly cycles? maybe crimp connectors would be better
2020-08-27T22:47:10 < bitmask> nope, I was gonna go either simple crimp or solder, solder just seemed easier and with thinner connecting points I can hide it in the extrusion easily
2020-08-27T22:49:22 < Cracki> with no concerns at all (no HCF, no nothing) I'd just solder and heatshrink it
2020-08-27T22:50:08 < Cracki> I'd maybe consider redoing the wiring so it's continuous, maybe not
2020-08-27T22:51:00 < bitmask> I dont think its worth opening the stepper motor
2020-08-27T22:51:08 < bitmask> these dont have connectors on the base
2020-08-27T22:52:36 < Cracki> i have both types. the ones with wires coming from the inside, I just screwed them into screw terminal connectors, or crimped them into a connector
2020-08-27T22:52:57 < bitmask> what kinda crimp connector
2020-08-27T22:53:00 < Cracki> I'd solder them if it were a fixed installation
2020-08-27T22:53:03 < Cracki> uh, random ones
2020-08-27T22:53:14 < Cracki> you gotta watch the current rating ofc
2020-08-27T22:53:21 < bitmask> yea
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2020-08-27T22:53:50 < Cracki> I have small ones and I don't drive them with much, so it's something 0.1" "compatible" but with slightly wider faces and smooth
2020-08-27T22:53:59 < Cracki> ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
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2020-08-27T22:55:23 < bitmask> oops
2020-08-27T22:57:54 < Cracki> I have small ones and I don't drive them with much, so it's something 0.1" "compatible" but with slightly wider faces and smooth
2020-08-27T22:58:40 < Cracki> the steppers I have with pins on the base for a connector, they look kinda flimsy but if they sell them like that it's probably also good for the other end
2020-08-27T22:59:13 < Ultrasauce> solder is definitely fine if nothing is going to be yanking on the wires yeah
2020-08-27T22:59:45 < bitmask> k i'll just do that
2020-08-27T23:00:02 < upgrdman> ee pros: i have a circuit powered by a super cap. i don't know if that circuit is a constant-resistance load, or constant-power, or some fucky shit. what the equation that will give me the voltage across a capacitor if it has a constant-resistance load?
2020-08-27T23:00:24 < Ultrasauce> the heat shrink butt connectors are really nice too
2020-08-27T23:00:28 < Cracki> exponential dropoff
2020-08-27T23:00:40 < bitmask> wire finally came today so I could finish wiring the printer but I decided my crimper blows and now I gotta wait until saturday for the engineer PA-09 to come
2020-08-27T23:01:11 < bitmask> I still have printing to do anyway
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2020-08-27T23:48:32 < karlp> Cracki: what's HCF wrt the solder/heatshrink concerns?
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2020-08-28T07:57:38 < jpa-> karlp: probably "high cycle fatigue", i.e. getting bent and unbent often
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2020-08-28T11:40:48 < karlp> thanks
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2020-08-28T12:02:49 < Hamilton> Has anyone here worked with micropython?
2020-08-28T12:21:30 < jadew`> asking for a friend, right?
2020-08-28T12:46:41 < Hamilton> jadew`, lol, no?
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2020-08-28T13:30:51 < Steffanx> jpa- strikes me as the micropython guy. 
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2020-08-28T13:31:12 < Steffanx> He has a parrot and microparrot too
2020-08-28T13:36:59 < PaulFertser> Pine folks are going to release a TS-100-compatible "clone" for 25 USD, but it'll feature a RISC-V MCU. "Pinecil" is the name.
2020-08-28T13:39:29 < PaulFertser> Features both barrel (compatible with laptop chargers) and USB-C (get your QC power banks ready!) at the same time.
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2020-08-28T15:26:11 < Hamilton> Have you guys seen this https://lvgl.io/ ?
2020-08-28T15:30:45 < Cracki> I saw it mentioned before
2020-08-28T15:37:29 < Hamilton> It's really cool. I wonder what would be the QT's edge over it (in the embedded scene)? 
2020-08-28T15:38:40 < Hamilton> I also wonder, why do so many people undertake developing these open-source MIT license libraries? I mean what's in it for them? It feels like corps would profit out of their free efforts...
2020-08-28T15:40:07 < jpa-> sometimes one can use them as advertisements for selling consulting
2020-08-28T15:40:23 < jpa-> Hamilton: i've used micropython a few times
2020-08-28T15:41:35 < Hamilton> jpa-, https://blog.adafruit.com/2019/09/02/hackaday-micropython-is-the-future-for-embedded-electronics-wow-hackaday-szczys-micropython-circuitpython-cccamp2019/
2020-08-28T15:41:37 < Hamilton> https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=24166861
2020-08-28T15:41:46 < Hamilton> Is it the future of embedded ? :)
2020-08-28T15:42:23 < Cracki> run javascript on cubesats in space
2020-08-28T15:42:55 < Hamilton> I've played with it on a ESP8266. Quickly tested a LCD, an IMU...it was fast to prototype but one is heavily dependent of ready-made libraries...also I've quickly run out of memory
2020-08-28T15:43:08 < Cracki> the future is whatever tradeoff people's utility functions make them choose
2020-08-28T15:44:04 < jpa-> Hamilton: there is no single language that could fulfill the needs of all possible embedded projects
2020-08-28T15:44:51 < Cracki> I played with esp8266 and its lua firmware. i ran the limits of ram too. you aren't supposed to use certain language features I can't remember
2020-08-28T15:44:53 < jpa-> but i'd expect micropython usage to slowly grow in the coming years, perhaps even faster than rust usage will - but things don't change fast, C and C++ is the past, present and future for a long time
2020-08-28T15:46:53 < Cracki> this nodemcu lua and micropython stuff kinda feels like AVR's "always put your strings in flash!" because the tooling/architecture isn't smart enough to do it for you
2020-08-28T15:47:43 < karlp> that was mostly because of avr's harvard arch though wasn't it?
2020-08-28T15:47:47 < Cracki> micrpython has mechanisms for compiling python code to whatever bytecode on the device itself
2020-08-28T15:48:49 < Hamilton> What would be the limitations of something like lvgl? What would be the single reason one might *not* want to use it?
2020-08-28T15:53:07 < jpa-> AFAIK lvgl doesn't do windowing or multi-process GUI stuff
2020-08-28T15:53:18 < jpa-> not that most embedded devices would need that anyway
2020-08-28T15:55:18 < jpa-> and on the other hand, if you have a tiny monochrome OLED screen, lvgl may be overkill and u8glib may be better choice
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2020-08-28T18:47:29 < Mangy_Dog> https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/362670523181957120/748931362547040336/IMG_20200828_164506.jpg  https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/362670523181957120/748931363490627604/IMG_20200828_164453.jpg  after a few days casting, nearly done!
2020-08-28T18:49:40 < Cracki> this could be chocolate
2020-08-28T18:50:36 < Mangy_Dog> resiny graphite chocolate stargate? :o
2020-08-28T18:53:06 < Cracki> some nerd's gf might pay for a chocolate star gate
2020-08-28T18:53:14 < Cracki> or bf which is more likely
2020-08-28T18:54:03 < karlp> heh, got into an undocumented boot mode of the usb2640: https://paste.jvnv.net/view/4xBR9
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2020-08-28T22:52:31 < aandrew> I don't know what those are Mangy_Dog but the detail level looks good
2020-08-28T22:52:36 < aandrew> never casted before
2020-08-28T22:57:26 < zyp> Mangy_Dog, redoing it?
2020-08-28T23:19:27 < Steffanx> i recall the first parts we saw where just 3d prints, for the casting mold
2020-08-28T23:19:43 < Steffanx> and then the mold failed
2020-08-28T23:20:54 < Steffanx> always when i read "mold"  i have to think about Aliexpress. Aliexpress translates "mold"  to "schimmel"  (which you could translate to  ~ fungus)
2020-08-28T23:24:54 < zyp> well, yeah, mold means that too
2020-08-28T23:25:26 < zyp> wouldn't want to buy it from aliexpress though
2020-08-28T23:26:39 < Steffanx> Yes, but its a funny translation
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2020-08-28T23:39:25 < zyp> by the way, what do you mean aliexpress translates?
2020-08-28T23:41:09 < Steffanx> aliexpress does that for me sometimes
2020-08-28T23:41:13 < Steffanx> autotranslate to dutch
2020-08-28T23:41:40 < zyp> also, sorry about the polar bear
2020-08-28T23:43:46 < Steffanx> Im sorry about the polar bear as well
2020-08-28T23:43:53 < Steffanx> Poor animal had to die
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2020-08-28T23:59:19 < Cracki> I read the previous link on his project
2020-08-28T23:59:29 < Cracki> the silicone seems to have degraded, became brittle in spots
--- Day changed Sat Aug 29 2020
2020-08-29T00:00:10 < Cracki> in his quest to find the final solution to air bubbles, he's trying things that may or may not have made the silicone brittle
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2020-08-29T00:05:48 < Cracki> t - 54 minutes https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DVvmgjBL74w&feature=youtu.be
2020-08-29T00:11:56 < kaki0> Steffanx: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WGd8xfgjMGY musics
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2020-08-29T00:59:15 < Steffanx> Want to kill me kaki0?
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2020-08-29T01:02:09 < Cracki> neetlink is late with their stream https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DVvmgjBL74w
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2020-08-29T01:16:09 < Cracki> wb Laurenceb, you claimed that maya fangirls over kyle?
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2020-08-29T01:23:40 < Cracki> they weren't blm tho. one of the blm guys even noted that the *antifas* gave them commands, such as to stop filming (antifas : cameras = vampires : holy water)
2020-08-29T01:25:19 < Cracki> look into them. criminal records have been revealed on them.
2020-08-29T01:26:19 < Cracki> one touched a child and got 10+ years for it. another seems to be a serial domestic abuser. and the third, I can't remember, but I think he carried a handgun, illegally.
2020-08-29T01:27:16 < Cracki> the kid did cross state borders (muh borders are imaginary?), but the weapon he used did not, a local friend gave it to him for the purposes of protecting people's property.
2020-08-29T01:28:34 < Cracki> I've been grabbing videos whenever I see them. someone erroneously thought there was a molly involved but it was "just" a rock in a plastic bag, one of the bad guys seemingly used to smash glass. the kid went to look, which got him chased off and the rock thrown after him
2020-08-29T01:29:19 < Cracki> there's even good video of the dude who got his arm turned into spaghetti. he feigned surrender, and the kid stood down (while sitting with his ass on the asphalt), but then the dude went back in and tried to shoot the kid.
2020-08-29T01:29:36 < Cracki> anyway, fucken neuralink is half an hour overdue
2020-08-29T01:29:52 < Cracki> 103k waiting in the yt stream already
2020-08-29T01:32:41 < Cracki> lol people are leaving
2020-08-29T01:33:13 < Cracki> y tho
2020-08-29T01:35:55 < Cracki> link
2020-08-29T01:36:12 < Cracki> wait, nvm
2020-08-29T01:36:44 < Cracki> I just ate, the prospect...
2020-08-29T01:37:07 < Cracki> goddamned neuralink start your stream
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2020-08-29T01:39:03 < Cracki> last time they admitted to having tested it on rats already, and that was a year ago
2020-08-29T01:39:45 < Cracki> so I expect monkeys this time. can't remember if they had been working on approval for human trials yet
2020-08-29T01:40:13 < Cracki> last time it was only electrodes into the brain. maybe this time they'll hook into spinal cords too
2020-08-29T01:40:19 < Cracki> oh the stream twitched, something's happening
2020-08-29T01:40:45 < Cracki> go! https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DVvmgjBL74w
2020-08-29T01:41:10 < Cracki> aha! pigs!
2020-08-29T01:41:48 < Steffanx> Just stop this personal vendettea Laurenceb. Is not funny, boring as hell and .. you go to the blog voluntary (although im not sure about that...), so just fuck off with that shit.
2020-08-29T01:42:24 < Cracki> ok so focus on medical, fixing conditions
2020-08-29T01:43:28 < Cracki> wat, anxiety, they wanna fix that? nice
2020-08-29T01:43:35 < Steffanx> Or is the obsession real? You've been over this for like .. 10 years?
2020-08-29T01:43:53 < Steffanx> ok make it 9
2020-08-29T01:44:25 < Cracki> maybe he's a connoisseur
2020-08-29T01:49:47 < Cracki> he's not saying they _do_ it in 1h but they can achieve it
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2020-08-29T02:04:15 < Cracki> lol everyone muzzled except the head honcho
2020-08-29T02:04:30 < Cracki> maybe he got the vaccine (without the microchips in it :>)
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2020-08-29T02:28:16 < Cracki> wtf that dude shouldn't look at the pigs like that, or compare them to the present humans
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2020-08-29T02:54:54 < Cracki> they didn't say whether they'd work on biological electrodes (made of neurons or sth) and the one dude only hinted at sensing chemicals (in addition to electrical potentials), which sounds sensible given "chemical imbalance" is a term getting thrown around
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2020-08-29T14:50:48 < specing> elon is more than the next steve jobs
2020-08-29T15:35:43 < Steffanx> PaulFertser: A little larger than I would like, but.. still fine http://imgur.com/a/BKnsmDu
2020-08-29T15:36:09 < Steffanx> and it beeps :)
2020-08-29T15:40:08 < Steffanx> (for the people not clicking, yes it's a didlo)
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2020-08-29T16:26:55 < PaulFertser> Steffanx: congrats
2020-08-29T16:27:37 < PaulFertser> Steffanx: I expected something more obvious for scale
2020-08-29T16:27:40 < con3> Steffanx: You guys have some weird looking dildos
2020-08-29T16:28:22 < Steffanx> It can get more obvious than 1x1cm squares PaulFertser?
2020-08-29T16:30:56 < Cracki> 5mm squares
2020-08-29T16:31:31 < Cracki> king's thumb for scale
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2020-08-29T17:05:45 < Steffanx> not sure if congrats, but ... ok PaulFertser. it seems to work fine. leads might have been a bit more ... pointy.
2020-08-29T17:05:59 < PaulFertser> Steffanx: well, I had no idea those are 1x1 cm, and it's been quite long since I used any paper like that.
2020-08-29T17:06:29 < PaulFertser> Steffanx: yeah, I just filed the ends on mine.
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2020-08-29T17:17:14 < mawk> give me 4 numbers such that the differences between any two of them isn't divisible by 3
2020-08-29T17:18:15 < mawk> you can use a computer to try to find them
2020-08-29T17:20:15 < specing> such numbers do not exist
2020-08-29T17:20:34 < mawk> you ruined all the fun specing 
2020-08-29T17:20:39 < mawk> you're going to hell
2020-08-29T17:20:46 < specing> well actually, they do not exist in whole numbers
2020-08-29T17:20:54 < specing> 0.1 0.2 0.3 0.4 fits
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2020-08-29T17:22:13 < mawk> prove it for n+1 numbers with a difference divisible by n
2020-08-29T17:22:39 < specing> sorry, no time for that
2020-08-29T17:24:15 < mawk> it's weekend right
2020-08-29T17:24:20 < mawk> or maybe you've got an odd religion
2020-08-29T17:24:24 < mawk> which god do you pray to ?
2020-08-29T17:35:18 < specing> the god of homeworks
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2020-08-29T17:55:00 < Steffanx> back to work mawk
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2020-08-29T18:07:56 < Steffanx> also i was out of bananas PaulFertser
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2020-08-29T18:30:35 < PaulFertser> Steffanx: I expected you to show it along your pocket or smartphone or something like that.
2020-08-29T18:42:59 < Cracki> iphone 10, 10 inch diagonal
2020-08-29T18:46:06 < PaulFertser> To hell with the imperial units.
2020-08-29T18:46:39 < PaulFertser> btw, Cracki, I didn't watch the stream just read your "rants". What was exactly odd about comparing pigs and humans in that context?
2020-08-29T18:47:41 < Cracki> the dude reading questions from twadder was a little comedian
2020-08-29T18:48:38 < Cracki> iphone 254, 0.254 metres diagonal
2020-08-29T18:49:02 < Cracki> *mètres
2020-08-29T18:49:22 < PaulFertser> "little comedian" as in "little people"? ;)
2020-08-29T18:50:01 < Cracki> as in amateur comedian and trying too hard to be funny when nobody else cared/tried/was
2020-08-29T18:50:34 < Cracki> maybe a touch of the tism because it seems they couldn't quite "read the room"
2020-08-29T18:50:36 < PaulFertser> That might be annoying :/
2020-08-29T18:50:52 < PaulFertser> I guess professional comedians are annoying too.
2020-08-29T18:50:57 < Cracki> or just insecure and wanting to be liked
2020-08-29T18:54:16 < Cracki> conversely, individuals lacking humor and making up for it with snark must have huuuge egos
2020-08-29T18:57:26 < Steffanx> Nah, i took the photos with my phone PaulFertser  ;)
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2020-08-29T20:26:08 < Steffanx> freenas.local
2020-08-29T20:26:12 < Steffanx> whops wrong window
2020-08-29T20:32:29 < mawk> calm down Steffanx 
2020-08-29T20:42:53 < Steffanx> im always very calm mawk
2020-08-29T20:44:42 < Steffanx> Time for a movie. A russian one :)
2020-08-29T20:48:16 < karlp> time for food I guess.
2020-08-29T20:49:07 < Steffanx> Already done.
2020-08-29T20:49:59 < Steffanx> Oh iceland is 2 hours behind.
2020-08-29T20:51:07 < karlp> so, xml mangling, likely via xsl bullshit, or device tree bullshit tonight.
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2020-08-29T20:56:39 < Steffanx> Xsl is that still a thing?
2020-08-29T21:06:49 < mawk> good Cracki everyone is supposed to say mètre as god intended
2020-08-29T21:09:49 < Steffanx> Are you calm mawk?
2020-08-29T21:10:00 < mawk> why wouldn't I be ?
2020-08-29T21:10:10 < mawk> I'm a fulfilled man
2020-08-29T21:10:46 < mawk> I'm expanding my physics knowledge so that I can build the next atomic bomb and cleanse the world
2020-08-29T21:10:50 < mawk> but in a calm manner
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2020-08-29T21:43:20 < brdb> on the stm32f429 (or similar) with the LTDC enabled and configured, i'd expect the LCD_CLK (PG7) to constantly be clocking away, no? i don't see anything on this pin even ensuring I setup the AF prior
2020-08-29T21:44:53 < Cracki> màìtrè
2020-08-29T21:46:09 < Cracki> brdb, what do the docs say? does the ltdc need any clock enabled you haven't given it yet?
2020-08-29T21:46:16 < Cracki> any flag to "enable" operation?
2020-08-29T21:49:16 < brdb>  thats what im trying to figure out. i've enabled the LTDC enable on the RCC (APB2ENR), interrupt, and the LTDC_GCR_CR
2020-08-29T21:51:35 < brdb> ahhh it uses a different clock that's right
2020-08-29T21:51:39 < brdb> so i have to configure it d'oh
2020-08-29T21:51:57 < brdb> PLLSAI
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2020-08-29T22:49:45 < Cracki> magic 8ball of embedded programming says "check the clock"
2020-08-29T23:12:11 < brdb> oh i'll check my clock alright
2020-08-29T23:27:29 < Cracki> it's funny how it's the same couple of things in many cases
2020-08-29T23:28:16 < Cracki> and it hits everyone
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--- Day changed Sun Aug 30 2020
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2020-08-30T00:42:23 < zyp> 16:17:14 < mawk> give me 4 numbers such that the differences between any two of them isn't divisible by 3
2020-08-30T00:42:31 < zyp> 1, -1, i, -i
2020-08-30T00:44:13 < zyp> but yeah, the proof for real integers is easy
2020-08-30T00:44:19 < mawk> no cheaty :(
2020-08-30T00:44:39 < mawk> what is the proof ?
2020-08-30T00:46:01 < zyp> for the difference of any two integers to be divisible by n, they must have the same modulo n, there are only n different modulo n values, so it's a pigeonhole problem
2020-08-30T00:46:51 < zyp> or birthday problem or whatever :)
2020-08-30T00:49:27 < zyp> i.e. a set can't be larger than n values for each to have a unique modulo n, and once you have two with the same modulo n, the difference between them is a multiple of n
2020-08-30T00:49:54 < zyp> good enough?
2020-08-30T00:50:07 < Steffanx> No thats not mathy enough
2020-08-30T00:50:13 < zyp> aww
2020-08-30T00:50:38 < Steffanx> I mean this "proof"  is understandable and that's not how it works in the math world
2020-08-30T00:50:54 < zyp> I'm not a mathematician
2020-08-30T00:52:37 < zyp> garden update: https://bin.jvnv.net/file/doRtL.jpg
2020-08-30T00:53:01 < zyp> I don't have a basement rock here (and no basement either), but I have a garden rock :p
2020-08-30T00:53:22 < Steffanx> Ship the rocks to dutchland, people want those rocks.
2020-08-30T00:54:11 < zyp> managed to get quite some work done this week, this is how it looked last week: https://bin.jvnv.net/file/fXu4V.jpg
2020-08-30T00:54:42 < Steffanx> All those "flat"  rocks came out of the ground?
2020-08-30T00:55:04 < zyp> yeah
2020-08-30T00:55:18 < zyp> those and more
2020-08-30T00:56:00 < Steffanx> Damn
2020-08-30T00:56:32 < mawk> yes zyp perfect
2020-08-30T00:56:43 < mawk> it's the right proof
2020-08-30T00:56:53 < mawk> so Steffanx is 100% wrong
2020-08-30T00:56:55 < mawk> it's mathy enough
2020-08-30T00:57:25 < mawk> there are only n residues modulo n, and we have n+1 number, so per the pigeonhole principle at least two of them have the same residue, so their difference is divisible by n
2020-08-30T00:57:27 < Steffanx> No its not
2020-08-30T00:57:31 < zyp> those flat things were all part of a big rock, but it broke into layers pretty easily
2020-08-30T00:58:30 < zyp> but then the next one I ran into is pretty fucking solid
2020-08-30T00:59:12 < zyp> I drilled and used wedges to break off a couple of pieces, but it's so big it's gonna take me forever to do the whole that way
2020-08-30T00:59:41 < zyp> so I'm thinking about renting a rock drill
2020-08-30T01:01:54 < Steffanx> like i said this proof is too easy to understand, so.. its not mathy enough mawk
2020-08-30T01:02:05 < mawk> :(
2020-08-30T01:02:22 < mawk> if you got it it's very good Steffanx 
2020-08-30T01:02:28 < mawk> you're born for maths
2020-08-30T01:02:32 < Steffanx> Have no dynamite somewhere zyp?
2020-08-30T01:03:07 < zyp> even if I did I'd still have to rent a rock drill to make the holes to put dynamite in
2020-08-30T01:03:17 < Steffanx> ture
2020-08-30T01:03:18 < Steffanx> true
2020-08-30T01:03:43 < zyp> but no, was thinking about using that expanding concrete shit
2020-08-30T01:04:12 < zyp> should be just as effective, just slower
2020-08-30T01:05:27 < Cracki> math is like code except mathematicians are sloppier because they don't have to get it by a compiler
2020-08-30T01:05:38 < mawk> lol
2020-08-30T01:05:41 < Cracki> it's true
2020-08-30T01:05:49 < mawk> they have to get it by other humans, so it has to be readable
2020-08-30T01:05:54 < mawk> and they have to be able to re-read it as well
2020-08-30T01:06:00 < Cracki> other humans tolerate sloppy notation
2020-08-30T01:06:43 < Cracki> and if the "other humans" are students, the teacher sometimes doesn't even deign to condescend
2020-08-30T01:06:55 < zyp> problem is, rock drills are expensive to rent so if I'm renting one for a day, I want to get everything done so I won't have to rent it again
2020-08-30T01:07:15 < Cracki> oh you want to break rocks?
2020-08-30T01:07:29 < Cracki> there must be companies that do blasting for you
2020-08-30T01:07:31 < zyp> see https://bin.jvnv.net/file/doRtL.jpg
2020-08-30T01:07:40 < zyp> sure, but that's even more expensive
2020-08-30T01:07:45 < Cracki> and if you wanna make a trench, there are saws or mills for that
2020-08-30T01:08:05 < Cracki> nice boulders and sheets of rock
2020-08-30T01:08:21 < Cracki> if they're small enough, get an excavator and rip them out?
2020-08-30T01:08:51 < Cracki> that big one breaking the grass back there is a bit much
2020-08-30T01:08:57 < zyp> nah, most of the remaining shit is probably solid mountain
2020-08-30T01:09:19 < Cracki> yay
2020-08-30T01:09:36 < Cracki> https://www.youtube.com/c/AndrewCamarata/search?query=ditch+witch
2020-08-30T01:09:50 < Cracki> ditch witch has better implements than this spinning wheel thing
2020-08-30T01:11:20 < Cracki> this dude does blasting (and drilling) https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCsT0voIDsD0dQgBfJ_Br-gg
2020-08-30T01:11:42 < Cracki> either you duck or you pile some dirt on top before the boom
2020-08-30T01:12:12 < zyp> https://scontent.fsvg2-1.fna.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/118590630_3224100594342068_7974076698052197133_o.jpg?_nc_cat=105&_nc_sid=9267fe&_nc_ohc=mlff-bwDTDoAX8w_ckN&_nc_ht=scontent.fsvg2-1.fna&oh=a848951739f7625ed024a9a5871d8168&oe=5F6EDC87
2020-08-30T01:12:28 < zyp> these guys are nearby, so I'm thinking about renting that for a day
2020-08-30T01:12:36 < Cracki> ye it's dusty and you'd wanna wear a mask for this, or use a shop vac to suck it all up
2020-08-30T01:14:14 < zyp> they want like 120€ a day, so it's not too bad
2020-08-30T01:14:44 < zyp> but I also need to borrow a car with a trailer hitch to go pick it up :p
2020-08-30T01:15:17 < karlp> do you need a pneumatic one? can't you get a corded one?
2020-08-30T01:15:59 < zyp> I don't think they make electric ones in that size :)
2020-08-30T01:16:19 < karlp> how big do you really need?
2020-08-30T01:16:40 < karlp> you were drilling yourself, with what size bit? what are you hoping to rent?
2020-08-30T01:17:17 < Cracki> quick google suggests that electric rock drills exist, in a lot of sizes
2020-08-30T01:17:46 < Cracki> I guess "everyone" uses something fueled by gasoline because it's cheap, except when you live somewhere with cheap electricity the balance tips
2020-08-30T01:17:51 < zyp> karlp, I've got a 20mm sds max drill bit
2020-08-30T01:18:23 < Cracki> https://www.911metallurgist.com/electric-rock-drill/
2020-08-30T01:19:12 < karlp> heh, cookies popup on local shop here only has one option, "allow all"
2020-08-30T01:19:41 < zyp> Cracki, I figure the compressors are diesel powered because they are mobile and you don't really find electrical outlets of that size everywhere
2020-08-30T01:19:49 < Cracki> or diesel ye
2020-08-30T01:19:54 < Cracki> oh yes outlets
2020-08-30T01:20:07 < Cracki> this world hasn't invented portable fusion reactors yet
2020-08-30T01:20:53 < zyp> I mean, my impression is that the power involved is on the same order of magnitude as the main supply to a normal house :p
2020-08-30T01:21:20 < karlp> hrm, 10A should be enough for a lot of jackhammer
2020-08-30T01:21:39 < karlp> that's what they're renting here by the day foir a 30kg unit, 
2020-08-30T01:21:42 < Cracki> what are they rated at? kw? horse power?
2020-08-30T01:22:15 < Cracki> this little video of the hilti electrical drill looks like it has high current three phase
2020-08-30T01:22:18 < zyp> hmm, let's find some numbers
2020-08-30T01:23:04 < Cracki> this says 7.5 kW https://qifangmachinery.en.made-in-china.com/product/aBYmjdsorepW/China-Strong-Horsepower-Mining-Rock-Drill-Rig-for-Blasting-Holes-in-Physical-Exploration.html
2020-08-30T01:23:15 < Cracki> so 10 hp
2020-08-30T01:23:31 < Cracki> I guess handheld is a fraction of that
2020-08-30T01:23:56 < Cracki> but 10/16A 240V might be limiting
2020-08-30T01:24:13 < zyp> the specs for the compressor I'm looking at renting says power output is 33 kW, but I'm not sure where/how that's measured
2020-08-30T01:24:23 < karlp> or not, quite a different mode of operation vs drilling and wedging
2020-08-30T01:24:50 < karlp> 20mm drill and wedg eis always going to be slow as shit
2020-08-30T01:25:03 < zyp> well, yeah
2020-08-30T01:25:08 < karlp> just climb on top with the jackhammer and ride it out
2020-08-30T01:25:11 < zyp> that's why I'm looking at renting something faster
2020-08-30T01:25:27 < Cracki> only thing faster would be a saw or mill
2020-08-30T01:26:04 < karlp> I think a saw would probabyl be slower at the actual task of "make this not a rock anymore"
2020-08-30T01:26:20 < Cracki> (ditch witch, those type of devices don't care if it's bedrock or gravel mixed with dirt, or frozen, or mud)
2020-08-30T01:26:47 < zyp> pneumatic drills are way faster than messing around with electric ones
2020-08-30T01:26:52 < Cracki> but who knows if anyone has that for rent
2020-08-30T01:27:21 < Cracki> aye, compressors and attachments _are_ standard equipment
2020-08-30T01:27:59 < karlp> oh, for sure, just that my gut says that a "standard" electric jackhammer is going to be way faster than your curent method still, and doesn't require you to find a trailer to get a compressor
2020-08-30T01:28:14 < karlp> 1200 NOK / day for one here?
2020-08-30T01:28:29 < zyp> yeah, 1250
2020-08-30T01:28:43 < zyp> I tried a cobra last year
2020-08-30T01:29:17 < zyp> was great when it ran, problem was it mostly didn't
2020-08-30T01:30:52 < zyp> spent a couple of hours trying to get it to run reliably, drilled pretty fucking fast once it started, but it didn't want to keep running so I got pissed off and returned it
2020-08-30T01:30:56 < Cracki> drilling and expanding stuff to break it might be quicker than jackhammering it all
2020-08-30T01:31:34 < Cracki> there's got to be someone local with experience to ask
2020-08-30T01:31:37 < zyp> so I went and rented a sds max drill an picked up a suitable drill bit
2020-08-30T01:31:45 < Cracki> you can't be the only one with this problem in his backyard
2020-08-30T01:31:52 < zyp> 00:30:56 < Cracki> drilling and expanding stuff to break it might be quicker than jackhammering it all
2020-08-30T01:31:58 < zyp> that's exactly what I'm planning to do
2020-08-30T01:31:58 < Cracki> :)
2020-08-30T01:32:03 < zyp> not gonna jackhammer anything
2020-08-30T01:32:21 < Cracki> the wife might try
2020-08-30T01:32:36 < zyp> ha
2020-08-30T01:33:30 < Cracki> I haven't seen the "demolition dave" ever jackhammer anything, except this slab of surplus concrete. he only gets the jobs that need drilling and blasting (or the expando goo)
2020-08-30T01:33:38 < zyp> additional advantage of pneumatic over electric: they get rid of the dust
2020-08-30T01:33:47 < Cracki> oh be careful with the dust
2020-08-30T01:34:13 < Cracki> nobody wants to breathe that. garden hose or collar around the drill and a strong shop vac
2020-08-30T01:34:46 < zyp> electric drills pile up the dust around the hole, pneumatic ones blow it out of the hole
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2020-08-30T01:57:06 < Cracki> don't hate the on the undocumented
2020-08-30T02:03:16 < Steffanx> And youll have to go back to ascii porn?
2020-08-30T02:03:53 < Steffanx> Maybe not back.. maybe your already into that
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2020-08-30T02:17:12 < Cracki> realplayer buffering
2020-08-30T02:18:11 < Cracki> iolink, saw it once in some light barrier/distance sensor. in the end they just configured a threshold ("teach" buttons everywhere) and got it saying high/low
2020-08-30T02:18:27 < Cracki> aiui it's 24V uart
2020-08-30T02:19:12 < Cracki> 8,E,1, not sure wat baudrate
2020-08-30T02:19:22 < Cracki> https://pdfserv.maximintegrated.com/en/sg/IO-Link-Handbook.pdf
2020-08-30T02:20:48 < Cracki> why the fuck do they call different speeds "COM1/COM2/COM3", those terms are already used for labeling com ports
2020-08-30T02:27:10 < Cracki> wat, start bit is "0" which is high level, i.e. not detectable??? i hope I'm reading this wrong
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2020-08-30T02:35:26 < Cracki> looks like the spec: https://io-link.com/share/Downloads/Spec-Interface/IOL-Interface-Spec_10002_V112_Jul13.pdf
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2020-08-30T02:42:33 < brdb> i'm scratching my head as to how the PLLSAI clock for the LCD gets computed for the output frequency clk. i figured with an HSE of 8mhz, with pllm=8 that leaves a freq of 1mhz
2020-08-30T02:42:57 < brdb> but somehow it's not correct and 16 times that for this to be correct unless the LTDC CLK signal is /2 /4 in addition to the post scalers as well
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2020-08-30T02:45:38 < brdb> the LCD_CLK has an output frequency of 3MHz in my instance
2020-08-30T02:47:59 < brdb> actually maybe the PLLSAI is just straight to the input clock for the PLL instead of a predivison by PLLM?
2020-08-30T02:48:15 < Cracki> start cubemx and gaze upon the tree of life
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2020-08-30T02:48:26 < brdb> i dont like guis, but if i have to i will
2020-08-30T02:48:30 < Cracki> :>
2020-08-30T02:48:54 < Cracki> I haven't gone looking for a clock tree in the reference manuals or elsewhere but it may be there. if it isn't, it should be
2020-08-30T02:49:21 < brdb> the diagram is there just not very clear..
2020-08-30T02:49:28 < Cracki> a fixed /2 or something may exist. it exists for other peripherals
2020-08-30T02:50:02 < brdb> yeah most likely
2020-08-30T02:50:15 < brdb> i'll download it and figure it out from the much more comprehensive timing chart
2020-08-30T02:50:19 < brdb> clock tree, whatever
2020-08-30T02:50:23 < Cracki> wat part do you have
2020-08-30T02:50:40 < brdb> stm32f429 if you mean the series
2020-08-30T02:50:52 < Cracki> let's see if I can tickle cubemx
2020-08-30T02:51:28 < Cracki> are they all the same in that series w.r.t. display controller?
2020-08-30T02:51:54 < brdb> i believe so, according to the reference manual i'm looking at that lists the 429
2020-08-30T02:51:55 < Cracki> I just picked a zgtx
2020-08-30T02:52:01 < brdb> the clock tree will reveal all
2020-08-30T02:52:09 < brdb> now it's a choice between general tso's or pad thai
2020-08-30T02:52:29 < Cracki> rgb 565?
2020-08-30T02:52:48 < brdb> i dont know if the chinese place has that
2020-08-30T02:52:51 < brdb> but i'll ask for you Cracki
2020-08-30T02:53:00 < Cracki> hse 8 mhz you say
2020-08-30T02:53:06 < brdb> that's right
2020-08-30T02:53:34 < brdb> rgb888 i think is the language i told it to speak
2020-08-30T02:54:04 < Cracki> ok funny it won't let me select hse for some reason, let's figure that out
2020-08-30T02:54:23 < Cracki> the part I'm looking at rn only gives me 565 and 666 for the ltdc
2020-08-30T02:56:06 < brdb> huh
2020-08-30T02:56:18 < Cracki> ignore the values, I can't change half of them https://imgur.com/oN6axVs
2020-08-30T02:57:13 < Cracki> ah, can't change to HSE in clock tree, need to touch RCC
2020-08-30T02:57:59 < Cracki> ok hse 8 mhz, /8, runs 1 mhz to the "pllsai", and now I can fuck around
2020-08-30T02:58:24 < Cracki> what values do you want? i might even be able to generate this, if you like
2020-08-30T02:58:50 < Cracki> says here the pllsai *N must cause it to be 100..432 mhz
2020-08-30T03:00:24 < Cracki> ah, Synchronous Audio Interface, irrelevant to the display but shares parent nodes in the tree with ltdc
2020-08-30T03:01:20 < Cracki> ok so the pllsai thingy does 100..432 mhz, then R=/2..7, now it's a "PLL LCD CLK", that can do /2..16 again, and then it's the lcd-tft clock
2020-08-30T03:02:17 < Cracki> yeah maybe install it. having it generate the code is the professional thing to do, no matter if you're using it straight, copying and pruning it, or translating it to libopencm3
2020-08-30T03:02:40 < Cracki> mister /b/ strikes again
2020-08-30T03:03:19 < brdb> im getting an LCD_CLK of 3Mhz with PLLM of 8, PLLSAIN=60, PLLSAIR=5, and the PLLSAIP for divide by 4
2020-08-30T03:03:30 < brdb> so working backwards from the known 3MHz i was trying to figure out how it got there
2020-08-30T03:04:01 < Cracki> wait
2020-08-30T03:04:09 < Cracki> pllm of 8 means 8/8 = 1 mhz out
2020-08-30T03:04:19 < Cracki> but pllsain=60 means 60 mhz, which is too low for the part I have on screen
2020-08-30T03:04:38 < Cracki> ah so you can measure 3 mhz on the output?
2020-08-30T03:04:53 < brdb> yes exactly the last part
2020-08-30T03:05:18 < Cracki> ok, then the pll lcd clk needs a /4 to make 3 mhz output
2020-08-30T03:05:37 < Cracki> https://imgur.com/WppyCSg
2020-08-30T03:06:07 < brdb> ah thanks for that
2020-08-30T03:06:09 < brdb> time to get chinese
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2020-08-30T10:25:58 < leibniz[m]> <Laurenceb "https://imgur.com/zcfQlag"> What is meant by that? Hollow-earth theory?
2020-08-30T10:28:30 < zyp> more like hollow head
2020-08-30T11:24:39 < dongs> thats pretty retarded even for laurence/n/
2020-08-30T11:24:43 < dongs> thats pretty retarded even for laurence/b/
2020-08-30T11:24:57 < jpa-> oh no, do we have both l/b/ and l/n/ now?
2020-08-30T11:25:20 < dongs> nah a typo and irc is stuck in the 1986 so i cant just edit my shit
2020-08-30T11:26:04 < jpa-> i was already hoping /n/ is a new chip revision and they've finally fixed some of the errata
2020-08-30T11:27:08 < jpa-> such as  2.14.2 IRC peripheral may enter irrelevant rambling off-topic mode, workaround: not available
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2020-08-30T12:28:05 < antto> dongs, irc is liek reel lyfe
2020-08-30T12:36:46 < Steffanx> Is it?
2020-08-30T12:41:15 < Steffanx> In real life i would never talk to a bulgarian, antto 
2020-08-30T12:44:19 < rapha> PaulFertser: is it possible that after upgrading the firmware to the officially latest with that stlink utility, the openocd unlock command stops working?
2020-08-30T12:44:34 < rapha> (still fiddling with the chinese stlinkv2 clones)
2020-08-30T12:45:09 < PaulFertser> rapha: unlikely. What exactly are you trying unlock for, and have you tried "mass_erase" already?
2020-08-30T12:45:20 < PaulFertser> rapha: and please pastebin errors you're getting along with the commands.
2020-08-30T12:46:42 < rapha> PaulFertser: no to the mass_erase and https://gist.github.com/sixtyfive/58f9ca381eff14eca8edb60b03a9670b for the paste
2020-08-30T12:48:54 < rapha> hmm mass_erase doesn't seem to be a known command
2020-08-30T12:48:57  * rapha scratches head
2020-08-30T12:51:11 < rapha> ah!
2020-08-30T12:51:26 < rapha> PaulFertser: now also tried https://gist.github.com/sixtyfive/96dea8d72e4c445dd274632d268f39fe
2020-08-30T12:53:00 < rapha> PaulFertser: perhaps i should mention that i had to change line 34 of /usr/share/openocd/scripts/target/stm32f1x.cfg to have 0x2ba01477 because this is a CTS chip
2020-08-30T12:53:23 < PaulFertser> rapha: I guess you need to try halting it first.
2020-08-30T12:54:22 < rapha> PaulFertser: still "Error: jtag status contains invalid mode value - communication failure"
2020-08-30T12:54:25 < PaulFertser> rapha: so "init; halt" should be more approriate.
2020-08-30T12:54:41 < rapha> ooooooooh they can be chained with semikolons! i was so hoping for that!
2020-08-30T12:54:48 < PaulFertser> rapha: in this case I'd attach the reset line and would use "reset_config srst_only connect_assert_srst"
2020-08-30T12:54:56 < rapha> okay
2020-08-30T12:55:09  * rapha hunts for another cable
2020-08-30T12:58:51 < rapha> PaulFertser: keeps polling and re-examining over and over now
2020-08-30T12:59:02 < PaulFertser> rapha: -d3 log please
2020-08-30T12:59:06 < PaulFertser> rapha: with "reset halt"
2020-08-30T12:59:23 < rapha> (tried RST to RST, tried target's RST to GND, tried target's RST to 3V3)
2020-08-30T12:59:25 < rapha> okay
2020-08-30T13:00:29 < PaulFertser> rapha: you can use tweezers or whatever to pull RST down but you need to let it go at the moment openocd is trying to halt 
2020-08-30T13:01:07 < rapha> oho
2020-08-30T13:02:00 < rapha> PaulFertser: but with RST to RST, then openocd could do its own thing, right?
2020-08-30T13:03:32 < rapha> PaulFertser: anyhow, this was the latest attempt (with RST to RST): https://gist.github.com/sixtyfive/3ba7eb42c5bd44bfca302453e4d3a878
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2020-08-30T13:06:16 < antto> Steffanx, wut if you've already talked to one or moar?
2020-08-30T13:06:45 < antto> <spooky_background_music.mid>
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2020-08-30T13:23:57 < Steffanx> Never  antto 
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2020-08-30T13:37:56 < PaulFertser> rapha: no, the last command is not something I suggest. I suggest -c "init; reset_config srst_only connect_assert_srst; reset halt"
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2020-08-30T15:04:01 < rapha> PaulFertser: sorry, i was confused at the lack of semicolons. this is what that results in: https://gist.github.com/sixtyfive/e62f7d7540d246e09102b11e603dc473 ... it gets weirder.
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2020-08-30T15:06:26 < PaulFertser> rapha: what if you do the mass_erase command instead of reset halt?
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2020-08-30T15:07:05 < PaulFertser> rapha: I'm also suspecting bad swd connectivity but not certain.
2020-08-30T15:09:57 < con3> Hmm.. Im struggling to get this DAC going. Not seeing any proper response: https://www.ti.com/lit/ds/symlink/dac80508.pdf?ts=1598785504350&ref_url=https%253A%252F%252Fwww.ti.com%252Fproduct%252FDAC80508
2020-08-30T15:10:05  * con3 needs some rubber duck debugging help
2020-08-30T15:12:10 < con3> it uses SPI and according to this, I understand that the CPOL has to be set to low and the CPHA has to be set to 1st edge. Shifted out on rising on the stm32 side and sampled on the falling on the dac side
2020-08-30T15:12:10 < con3> https://imgur.com/a/wvH4G2W
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2020-08-30T15:17:26 < con3> my spi config: https://pastebin.com/r92mLN1a
2020-08-30T15:17:39 < con3> If this is correct, then I can access the registers by structuring a write command like this: https://imgur.com/a/nsV01Dm
2020-08-30T15:18:48 < con3> something like uint32_t payload = 0x0 <<20 | AddressBits << 16 | Data 
2020-08-30T15:18:58 < con3> this is right.. right :? 
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2020-08-30T15:26:33 < rapha> PaulFertser: https://gist.github.com/sixtyfive/fa547a74efe74eb97b6790200e5e6d7d (still with RST on RST)
2020-08-30T15:26:38 < rapha> hmm
2020-08-30T15:26:40 < rapha> bad swd
2020-08-30T15:26:42 < rapha> let me check
2020-08-30T15:28:18 < rapha> all the wires look good, including RST-RST
2020-08-30T15:29:52 < PaulFertser> rapha: it's odd SRST is not asserted according to the log. Probably that version had an error in that area with stlink. Can you please try current master?
2020-08-30T15:30:09 < rapha> sure!
2020-08-30T15:31:11 < rapha> wow been a while i cloned from sf.net
2020-08-30T15:31:58  * con3 kicks DAC
2020-08-30T15:32:18 < rapha> and nothing is happening :-/
2020-08-30T15:32:43 < rapha> ah, the mirror works
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2020-08-30T15:40:34 < rapha> ouch
2020-08-30T15:40:44 < rapha> no compatible libusb version to be able to compile stlink in
2020-08-30T15:41:21 < rapha> "libusb-compat         - libusb-1.0 Compatibility Layer for libusb-0.1" is installed though. weird.
2020-08-30T15:42:22 < rapha> PaulFertser: and libusb itself is libusb-1.0.23 ... what beef does it have with that?
2020-08-30T15:46:34 < mawk> what distro ?
2020-08-30T15:46:38 < mawk> debian rapha ?
2020-08-30T15:49:23 < rapha> mawk: Solus Linux
2020-08-30T15:51:10 < rapha> and /usr/lib64/pkgconfig/libusb-1.0.pc *does* exist
2020-08-30T15:57:13 < jpa-> rapha: have you installed the -dev packages?
2020-08-30T15:58:11 < jpa-> libusb-devel
2020-08-30T15:59:19 < PaulFertser> rapha: yes, it just uses the .pc files
2020-08-30T15:59:35 < PaulFertser> rapha: libusb-compat is not really needed for stlink
2020-08-30T15:59:37 < rapha> weird
2020-08-30T15:59:41 < rapha> jpa-: ofc
2020-08-30T16:00:01 < rapha> perhaps it's getting confused by the lib64
2020-08-30T16:00:08 < PaulFertser> rapha: config.log would tell
2020-08-30T16:00:12 < rapha> nope, there's a symlink
2020-08-30T16:00:36 < rapha> PaulFertser: already checked; it only says 
2020-08-30T16:00:38 < rapha> Package libusb-1.0 was not found in the pkg-config search path.
2020-08-30T16:00:40 < rapha> Perhaps you should add the directory containing `libusb-1.0.pc'
2020-08-30T16:01:31 < rapha> oooooooooh it's using /home/jrs/.linuxbrew/bin/pkg-config
2020-08-30T16:01:33 < rapha> fuck me plenty
2020-08-30T16:02:39 < rapha> forehead, meet table
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2020-08-30T16:06:11 < jpa-> might just install openocd from linuxbrew then :)
2020-08-30T16:06:42 < rapha> lol :)
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2020-08-30T16:10:24 < rapha> PaulFertser: https://gist.github.com/sixtyfive/daf4bbfa52f337b824bc5edddab9aeeb
2020-08-30T16:13:26 < PaulFertser> rapha: this clone is not behaving like the original. Can you try changing BOOT0 pin state?
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2020-08-30T16:29:04 < rapha> interesting
2020-08-30T16:29:19 < rapha> but you think it has nothing to do with me flashing latest original st firmware?
2020-08-30T16:29:42 < rapha> wow
2020-08-30T16:29:44 < rapha> okay
2020-08-30T16:29:56 < rapha> will first have to figure that out. 
2020-08-30T16:31:21 < Cracki> con3, can you LA/scope the SPI signal from the master? slow it down if you need to, just to observe if it's the right data
2020-08-30T16:31:25 < PaulFertser> rapha: original f1 parts always connect properly with reset externally asserted.
2020-08-30T16:37:38 < Cracki> con3, as I see it, you need cpha 0, cpol 1 https://www.st.com/content/ccc/resource/training/technical/product_training/group0/3e/ee/cd/b7/84/4b/45/ee/STM32F7_Peripheral_SPI/files/STM32F7_Peripheral_SPI.pdf/_jcr_content/translations/en.STM32F7_Peripheral_SPI.pdf
2020-08-30T16:38:16 < Cracki> not sure how that translates into these funky constants ("SPI_POLARITY_LOW", "SPI_PHASE_1EDGE") without scaring up a RM
2020-08-30T16:39:45 < rapha> PaulFertser: but then how was stlink able to flash it?
2020-08-30T16:39:55 < rapha> oh wait
2020-08-30T16:39:58 < rapha> that was via DFU
2020-08-30T16:40:05 < Cracki> cpol looks like it needs to be "high"
2020-08-30T16:40:50 < Cracki> high, 1edge (first edge is falling, sample on that)
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2020-08-30T16:41:32 < Cracki> con3, so flip the polarity to high, then I think it should work
2020-08-30T16:42:15 < Cracki> in any case, dare to try all modes and see which ones don't work. some with wrong sampling edge may work accidentally due to too good a signal and/or slight delays
2020-08-30T16:43:32 < Cracki> oh I'm not sure if the polynomial is "7"
2020-08-30T16:44:20 < Cracki> nvm it's disabled
2020-08-30T16:56:34 < con3> Cracki: Thank you! going to have a look now
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2020-08-30T18:39:07 < Cracki> crap I hear geese. winter is coming!
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2020-08-30T18:44:47 < Steffanx> Will it end as bad as GoT?
2020-08-30T18:47:44 < jadew`> sounds like it's going to end with grilled geese, so no
2020-08-30T18:47:44 < Cracki> I hope the climate hysteria people are right. I don't like cold and dark winters.
2020-08-30T18:48:10 < R2COM> i wonder if its a good idea to use type_traits in cpp in embedded
2020-08-30T18:48:13 < Cracki> doomsday prophecies have been wrong for the last half century
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2020-08-30T18:54:40 < mawk> R2COM: no
2020-08-30T18:54:45 < mawk> it adds runtime cost and size
2020-08-30T18:55:37 < mawk> even in PC projects it's sometimes disabled
2020-08-30T18:55:39 < mawk> e.g. llvm/clang
2020-08-30T19:00:38 < mawk> actually nevermind I mistook it for <typeinfo>
2020-08-30T19:00:41 < mawk> <type_traits> is fine
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2020-08-30T19:03:21 < R2COM> k
2020-08-30T19:05:30 < specing> I wonder if its a good idea to use cpp in embedded
2020-08-30T19:05:33 < specing> oh wait, I don't
2020-08-30T19:12:24 < Steffanx> You know it is.
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2020-08-30T20:58:00 < antto> specing, u know it's grate, ain't no question bout it
2020-08-30T21:06:55 < Steffanx> Does C++ make you talk like that?
2020-08-30T21:09:37 < antto> like wat?
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2020-08-30T21:16:20 < Steffanx> "  u know it's grate, ain't no question bout it" 
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2020-08-30T21:26:48 < antto> ur question makes no sense ;P~
2020-08-30T21:27:27 < Steffanx> You use C++ a lot. Does it make you talk like that?
2020-08-30T21:27:47 < antto> C++ haz zero to do with how i talk
2020-08-30T21:29:12 < Steffanx> Ok im glad to hear that
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2020-08-30T21:35:05 < mawk> maybe get checked for brain damage antto 
2020-08-30T21:35:12 < mawk> is your face half-paralyzed since recently ?
2020-08-30T21:35:23 < mawk> are you always seeking your words when you talk ?
2020-08-30T21:35:30 < mawk> C++ does that to people
2020-08-30T21:36:40 < antto> pls
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2020-08-30T21:39:23 < Steffanx> haha lol, poor antto
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2020-08-31T00:26:45 < zyp> nice, workstation psu blew up
2020-08-31T00:27:55 < zyp> main cap is puffed up, inlet fuse is blown
2020-08-31T00:28:24 < zyp> also tripped both the circuit breaker for the room and in the ups
2020-08-31T00:30:20 < zyp> hope it didn't kill anything else on the way out
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2020-08-31T00:32:13 < R2COM> how did it happen?
2020-08-31T00:32:21 < R2COM> during normal operation or during some event
2020-08-31T00:33:31 < zyp> out of nowhere
2020-08-31T00:43:21 < invzim> that sucks
2020-08-31T00:43:35 < invzim> well known brand?
2020-08-31T00:45:08 < zyp> OCZ
2020-08-31T00:45:59 < zyp> OCZ700MXSP according to the label
2020-08-31T00:47:57 < R2COM> worth trying warranty
2020-08-31T00:48:07 < R2COM> if its <3yrs since purchase
2020-08-31T00:48:33 < Steffanx> In norway waranty works differently.. 
2020-08-31T00:48:42 < Steffanx> Isnt it even more than 3?
2020-08-31T00:48:49 < R2COM> i typically use evga PSUs for workstation, never problems for such long time
2020-08-31T00:48:56 < zyp> Steffanx, yeah, 5
2020-08-31T00:49:11 < zyp> but that's moot either way, I bought it in 2012
2020-08-31T00:49:16 < Steffanx> Heh
2020-08-31T00:49:40 < Steffanx> Its annoying anyway.. you want a new one right now 
2020-08-31T00:50:10 < R2COM> too bad most syntax editors dont highlight function when used with specialization set
2020-08-31T00:50:11 < R2COM> inline uint8_t SetPriority3<cm::EXC::SVCall>(cm::EXC a)
2020-08-31T00:50:28 < R2COM> if it would be regular function SetPriority3 would be highlighted
2020-08-31T00:50:34 < R2COM> but adding stuff inside <> removes highlighting
2020-08-31T00:50:53 < R2COM> i guess maybe some syntax engine not quite familiar with template/c++ newer features
2020-08-31T00:51:54 < zyp> Steffanx, I'm considering putting in the one I bought to run my quadrotor way back
2020-08-31T00:52:43 < zyp> https://bin.jvnv.net/file/a8bMt.JPG
2020-08-31T00:53:32 < zyp> found it in the original box with all the cables and everything
2020-08-31T00:54:18 < zyp> it's just gonna be a bit tighter fit since it's a little bit deeper than the one that died
2020-08-31T00:55:58 < zyp> but I'm too tired to fuck around with that tonight
2020-08-31T01:14:27 < Steffanx> Sleep well then :)
2020-08-31T01:21:11 < R2COM> zyp did you ever use c++ latest feature of function template argument deduction
2020-08-31T01:22:26 < R2COM> im still curious why some function template defined like this:
2020-08-31T01:22:26 < R2COM> https://paste.ofcode.org/yWajHEbASUp2N4ZNqQCVXa
2020-08-31T01:22:42 < R2COM> works perfectly when i do this in main file:
2020-08-31T01:22:43 < R2COM> 	c = cm::EnableIrq2<cm::EXC::SVCall>(cm::EXC::SVCall);
2020-08-31T01:22:59 < R2COM> but does not work if i prefer short version of calling it, like that:
2020-08-31T01:23:04 < R2COM> c = cm::EnableIrq2(cm::EXC::SVCall);
2020-08-31T01:23:22 < R2COM> technically, latest feature of c++ had to deduce it from the function argument parameter
2020-08-31T01:23:29 < R2COM> so that i dont have to include it manually inside <>
2020-08-31T01:23:36 < R2COM> but it doesnt do that trick for some reason
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2020-08-31T01:29:24 < Cracki> empty <>?
2020-08-31T01:29:33 < Cracki> "doesn't do" meaning what error?
2020-08-31T01:31:40 < R2COM> says cant deduce template
2020-08-31T01:31:46 < R2COM> look at code i posted
2020-08-31T01:31:55 < R2COM> and see what im showing with which function it does and does not work
2020-08-31T01:31:59 < Cracki> nah just casually shooting the shit
2020-08-31T01:37:49 < mawk> empty <> is fin
2020-08-31T01:37:51 < mawk> e
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2020-08-31T01:40:55 < R2COM> empty <> is specialization feature
2020-08-31T01:41:05 < R2COM> mawk you see my problem?
2020-08-31T01:41:13 < R2COM> i think im missing something
2020-08-31T01:42:33 < R2COM> the purpose is, be able to do it this way anywhere:     c = cm::EnableIrq2(cm::EXC::SVCall);
2020-08-31T01:42:40 < R2COM> goal
2020-08-31T01:56:38 < R2COM> i can also do it this way:
2020-08-31T01:56:40 < R2COM> https://paste.ofcode.org/MmYHN75dYY8NaDzsDhtFgk
2020-08-31T01:56:49 < R2COM> and then call that narrow specialized function this way too:
2020-08-31T01:57:00 < R2COM> c = cm::EnableIrq2<cm::EXC::SVCall>();
2020-08-31T01:57:01 < R2COM> ^
2020-08-31T01:57:04 < R2COM> it also works
2020-08-31T01:57:16 < R2COM> but man...why the hell another way i showed initially doesnt work
2020-08-31T01:57:20 < R2COM> im really curious
2020-08-31T01:57:40 < R2COM> i can technically move on with latter method which works for me
2020-08-31T01:57:50 < R2COM> but i really wanna know whats wrong in original method i posted
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2020-08-31T02:04:31 < Thorn> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P-gLOsDjE3E live
2020-08-31T02:04:52 < Cracki> wut
2020-08-31T02:05:00 < Cracki> they said they'd move it, or was that the other launch?
2020-08-31T02:08:21 < R2COM> Thorn are you a c++ expert
2020-08-31T02:08:59 < R2COM> seems like noone here except zyp fucks with templates/specialization
2020-08-31T02:09:12 < Cracki> "we might get nice illumination of the chemtrails"
2020-08-31T02:09:20 < mawk> template argument deduction for function is a feature only of very latest C++ I think R2COM 
2020-08-31T02:09:21 < mawk> no ?
2020-08-31T02:09:24 < mawk> you need to wait
2020-08-31T02:10:07 < R2COM> no
2020-08-31T02:10:11 < R2COM> its feature for c++17
2020-08-31T02:10:13 < R2COM> why wait?
2020-08-31T02:10:15 < Thorn> no need for inline in a template declaration
2020-08-31T02:10:22 < R2COM> ok noted
2020-08-31T02:10:29 < Thorn> it's automatically inline
2020-08-31T02:10:40 < R2COM> Thorn but any idea of why function cannot deduct type from argument list?
2020-08-31T02:10:50 < R2COM> why i am forced to do it manually inside<> in front of (...)
2020-08-31T02:10:51 < R2COM> ?
2020-08-31T02:11:06 < Thorn> I don't see any arguments in your latest paste
2020-08-31T02:11:14 < R2COM> not latest
2020-08-31T02:11:15 < R2COM> let me show
2020-08-31T02:11:33 < R2COM> https://paste.ofcode.org/yWajHEbASUp2N4ZNqQCVXa
2020-08-31T02:11:52 < R2COM> ^
2020-08-31T02:11:57 < R2COM> above works with this:     	c = cm::EnableIrq2<cm::EXC::SVCall>(cm::EXC::SVCall);
2020-08-31T02:12:04 < Cracki> uh
2020-08-31T02:12:09 < R2COM> but above does not work with this:    c = cm::EnableIrq2(cm::EXC::SVCall);
2020-08-31T02:12:10 < Thorn> and in this one you aren't using your template parameter in your arguments
2020-08-31T02:12:28 < Cracki> why do you have a specific type in <> in the definition of the function?
2020-08-31T02:12:33 < Cracki> isn't that supposed to be a variable
2020-08-31T02:12:44 < Cracki> i.e. standin for a type of sth
2020-08-31T02:13:23 < mawk> you put types in <>
2020-08-31T02:13:36 < mawk> well you can have integers if you want, but that's separate thing
2020-08-31T02:13:57 < Cracki> when you isntantiate
2020-08-31T02:14:03 < Cracki> not where the template is defined
2020-08-31T02:14:06 < R2COM> 1 moment!
2020-08-31T02:14:10 < Cracki> or am I missing a new feature?
2020-08-31T02:14:26 < R2COM> see another revision here:
2020-08-31T02:14:27 < R2COM> https://paste.ofcode.org/VBfgKPmS3QFVy7Z7QNAJVq
2020-08-31T02:14:28 < R2COM> ^
2020-08-31T02:14:29 < R2COM> see that?
2020-08-31T02:14:38 < Cracki> I see it but I can't believe it
2020-08-31T02:14:51 < R2COM> yes its new feature Cracki
2020-08-31T02:14:58 < R2COM> you see my latest paste?
2020-08-31T02:14:59 < Cracki> okeh
2020-08-31T02:15:03 < Cracki> I see it but I can't believe it
2020-08-31T02:15:07 < R2COM> so with latest paste, this must work:       	c = cm::EnableIrq3(cm::EXC::SVCall);
2020-08-31T02:15:07 < Cracki> it makes no sense
2020-08-31T02:15:13 < R2COM> but it does NOT
2020-08-31T02:15:35 < Cracki> I don't see why
2020-08-31T02:15:36 < R2COM> but...this works:    c = cm::EnableIrq3<cm::EXC::SVCall>(cm::EXC::SVCall);
2020-08-31T02:15:37 < Cracki> why it should
2020-08-31T02:15:46 < Cracki> line 5
2020-08-31T02:15:49 < Cracki> makes no sense to me
2020-08-31T02:15:54 < R2COM> lemme see
2020-08-31T02:16:03 < Cracki> which feature is this, where is this described
2020-08-31T02:16:16 < R2COM> line 5 means:   this function is working only in case if argument is EXC type, and its value is SVCall
2020-08-31T02:16:19 < R2COM> thats what line 5 means
2020-08-31T02:16:38 < R2COM> https://en.cppreference.com/w/cpp/language/class_template_argument_deduction
2020-08-31T02:16:46 < Cracki> shit like this makes me slowly step away from c++ because it's become too much for the average programmer, and that's no good
2020-08-31T02:17:52 < Cracki> this is nerd sniping.
2020-08-31T02:18:10 < Cracki> it's for people who love games with weird rules.
2020-08-31T02:18:15 < R2COM> so for example.... my templated function takes enum class type of arguments; but what i wanna do is... "hey, for this and that enum class argument you use this function, if user tries to pass another enum class argument throw compile error"
2020-08-31T02:18:29 < R2COM> Cracki no its a pro shit come on 
2020-08-31T02:18:40 < Cracki> that's what they want you to believe
2020-08-31T02:18:46 < Cracki> it's a scheme
2020-08-31T02:18:52 < R2COM> yes scheme
2020-08-31T02:19:00 < R2COM> so i just described problem, how would you solve it?
2020-08-31T02:19:07 < Cracki> it's invented to give job security to those who made it up
2020-08-31T02:19:11 < R2COM> i wanted to use c++ features to solve it
2020-08-31T02:19:25 < Thorn> R2COM template argument type deduction can only work if the compiler is able to obtain information about the type of your template argument from your instantiation
2020-08-31T02:19:52 < R2COM> Thorn ok? but here it is-------------> c = cm::EnableIrq3(cm::EXC::SVCall);
2020-08-31T02:19:53 < R2COM> ^
2020-08-31T02:20:05 < R2COM> in above, i clearly say that argument is EXC type enum with value SVCall
2020-08-31T02:20:11 < R2COM> why it doesnt do the trick?
2020-08-31T02:20:24 < R2COM> why i have to manually tell it this way---------> c = cm::EnableIrq3<cm::EXC::SVCall>(cm::EXC::SVCall);    ???
2020-08-31T02:21:13 < Cracki> you pass a type to a function
2020-08-31T02:21:19 < Cracki> since when is that supported
2020-08-31T02:21:33 < R2COM> Thorn any idea?
2020-08-31T02:21:43 < R2COM> Cracki no.... i pass not only type but specific value of that type
2020-08-31T02:21:45 < Cracki> or is SVCall not a type but something you can actually pass
2020-08-31T02:21:50 < Cracki> so it's a value?
2020-08-31T02:21:53 < R2COM> 1 sec
2020-08-31T02:22:23 < R2COM> https://paste.ofcode.org/34DUaSsxBPPLdHra44tde2T
2020-08-31T02:22:37 < R2COM> thats what EXC is
2020-08-31T02:22:39 < Cracki> okeh so it's a value
2020-08-31T02:22:44 < Cracki> this is helpful to know
2020-08-31T02:23:06 < R2COM> so what i wanna do is this "Hey, if user tries to pass SVCall  then do this, if he tries to give another value from that enum then throw me error"
2020-08-31T02:23:38 < Cracki> assertion?
2020-08-31T02:23:53 < R2COM> what assertion?
2020-08-31T02:23:58 < Cracki> is there anywhere (other than cppreference which is impenetrable legalese) that shows this feature working?
2020-08-31T02:24:32 < R2COM> if i could find easily examples i gues id not be talking about here for few days
2020-08-31T02:24:43 < R2COM> but it should work
2020-08-31T02:24:44 < Thorn> R2COM there is no connection between your function parameter and template argument
2020-08-31T02:24:55 < Thorn> how can the compiler deduce anything
2020-08-31T02:25:00 < R2COM> Thorn but what about this? ---> c = cm::EnableIrq3(cm::EXC::SVCall);
2020-08-31T02:25:06 < R2COM> but inside (....)
2020-08-31T02:25:06 < R2COM> ?
2020-08-31T02:25:31 < R2COM> inside i have this:   cm::EXC::SVCall
2020-08-31T02:25:46 < R2COM> so from there he can duduce "aha...its SVCall which is EXC type....ok!"
2020-08-31T02:25:47 < R2COM> thats it
2020-08-31T02:25:59 < R2COM> but no, it wants me to do this:     ----> c = cm::EnableIrq3<cm::EXC::SVCall>(cm::EXC::SVCall);  
2020-08-31T02:26:13 < R2COM> where i put cm::EXC::SVCall  again inside <>
2020-08-31T02:26:14 < R2COM> see?
2020-08-31T02:26:15 < Thorn> so how is it supposed to infer that your *template parameter* is equal to ::SVCall?
2020-08-31T02:26:17 < R2COM> then its happy
2020-08-31T02:26:28 < Thorn> in the instantiation
2020-08-31T02:26:42 < Cracki> you want it to, but it doesn't, because it doesn't know those two things should be related
2020-08-31T02:26:46 < R2COM> he looks in my instntiation, then he looks in definition here:  https://paste.ofcode.org/VBfgKPmS3QFVy7Z7QNAJVq
2020-08-31T02:26:49 < Cracki> you haven't made them related to each other
2020-08-31T02:26:50 < R2COM> and this way he concludes
2020-08-31T02:26:55 < Cracki> wishing it doesn't make it so
2020-08-31T02:27:05 < Cracki> no it doesn't because you haven't told it those are related
2020-08-31T02:27:15 < Cracki> what you told it isn't enough
2020-08-31T02:27:16 < R2COM> but what about CTAD
2020-08-31T02:27:21 < Cracki> what about it
2020-08-31T02:27:41 < R2COM> it means it should be able to do it
2020-08-31T02:27:47 < Cracki> it could deduce, but you aren't telling it that those are supposed to be related!
2020-08-31T02:28:14 < Cracki> you're shouting at a car to drive, and it can drive, but shouting at it doesn't work
2020-08-31T02:28:29 < Cracki> what you're doing isn't enough apparently
2020-08-31T02:28:32 < R2COM> ok, tell me why this works:   c = cm::EnableIrq3<cm::EXC::SVCall>(cm::EXC::SVCall);  
2020-08-31T02:28:32 < R2COM> ?
2020-08-31T02:28:38 < Cracki> no idea
2020-08-31T02:28:48 < Cracki> you're actually giving it something in <>
2020-08-31T02:28:54 < R2COM> because i have this: <cm::EXC::SVCall>
2020-08-31T02:28:55 < R2COM> yes
2020-08-31T02:29:02 < R2COM> that one works
2020-08-31T02:29:10 < Cracki> this working isn't proof of anything really, other than it works
2020-08-31T02:29:24 < R2COM> no, this is how it works
2020-08-31T02:31:05 < Cracki> I don't believe "argument deduction" is the mechanism you want, if you want to restrict argument VALUES
2020-08-31T02:31:25 < R2COM> as overall task yes i wanna do it
2020-08-31T02:31:34 < R2COM> and trying to find modern way of doing it
2020-08-31T02:31:35 < Cracki> you could just say assert(a == EXC::SVCall)
2020-08-31T02:31:37 < R2COM> with these templates
2020-08-31T02:31:40 < Cracki> that'll throw an exception
2020-08-31T02:31:46 < Cracki> "modern"
2020-08-31T02:31:48 < R2COM> well
2020-08-31T02:32:05 < Cracki> modern being an euphemism for "let's use type systems for things they aren't made for"
2020-08-31T02:32:19 < Cracki> old ways aren't bad just because they're old
2020-08-31T02:32:27 < Cracki> new ways aren't good because they're new or different
2020-08-31T02:32:59 < Cracki> besides, why even have a parameter if you restrict it to be effectively a constant
2020-08-31T02:33:37 < Cracki> you post tiny snippets. maybe post more. it looks like you have a subclass of something, and you're overriding a method
2020-08-31T02:34:01 < Cracki> hm I see, you want compile time errors, not runtime errors
2020-08-31T02:34:05 < Cracki> ok so static assert
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2020-08-31T02:35:35 < R2COM> https://paste.ofcode.org/iXxQFGuFAXYBAeu7VPNtSL
2020-08-31T02:36:13 < Cracki> makes no sense to me
2020-08-31T02:36:15 < Cracki> 77, 78
2020-08-31T02:36:20 < Cracki> xc is used nowhere else
2020-08-31T02:36:44 < Cracki> you have two "EnableIrq3" with different signatures
2020-08-31T02:37:31 < Cracki> no matter what your goal is, or what you wish to accomplish, or what features you try to use for whatever purpose, this makes no sense to me, and there's a possibility that it's not because I'm dumb
2020-08-31T02:37:32 < R2COM> its a way of using templated functions with specialization
2020-08-31T02:37:34 < R2COM> general template
2020-08-31T02:37:37 < R2COM> and its specialization
2020-08-31T02:38:11 < R2COM> 77,78....then 80,81
2020-08-31T02:38:22 < R2COM> 81 is detailed description
2020-08-31T02:38:27 < R2COM> 78 is general
2020-08-31T02:38:39 < R2COM> general just says "its function which takes i.e. this argument" thats it
2020-08-31T02:38:43 < R2COM> no definition for it
2020-08-31T02:39:05 < R2COM> and 81 says "ok it will take this argument type but also it will be value if argument is specific value"
2020-08-31T02:39:26 < Cracki> what do the people say in #c++ or ##c++ or whichever it is
2020-08-31T02:39:37 < R2COM> i dont know i never went on those channels
2020-08-31T02:39:54 < Cracki> might be worth a try. they are supposed to be specialists for this stuff
2020-08-31T02:45:23 < R2COM> Cracki also.... c++ rules isnt it... i mean look even into complex game product, UnrealEngine etc, all c++
2020-08-31T02:45:39 < R2COM> pretty sure all this new stuff you are allergic to  is used all over there
2020-08-31T02:45:41 < R2COM> for reason
2020-08-31T02:48:34 < R2COM> ok c++ pros just say it is what it is written CTAD works with classes (just why C is there...)
2020-08-31T02:48:44 < R2COM> not gonna automatically trasnfer to template functions
2020-08-31T02:54:22 < Cracki> I'm not actually opposed to this stuff, only to wrong explanations of it
2020-08-31T02:54:39 < Cracki> I'm also opposed to preachers
2020-08-31T02:54:41 < R2COM> ok so c++ pros told me i can do it this way as i did recently
2020-08-31T02:55:32 < R2COM> https://paste.ofcode.org/33vtGVXvKyZZ9nTnfhUZxM6
2020-08-31T02:55:55 < R2COM> basically, instead of providing function argument during its instantiation, provide template arguments and be done with it
2020-08-31T02:56:03 < R2COM> this way i can achieve what i want and it works properly
2020-08-31T02:56:06 < R2COM> and not bulky
2020-08-31T02:56:33 < Cracki> again xc is used nowhere
2020-08-31T02:56:38 < Cracki> can you omit line 1
2020-08-31T02:56:46 < Cracki> or does it have to be there
2020-08-31T02:56:54 < Cracki> or can line 1 just be template<>
2020-08-31T02:56:56 < R2COM> joh
2020-08-31T02:56:57 < R2COM> hm
2020-08-31T02:57:04 < R2COM> let see
2020-08-31T02:57:15 < Cracki> and why is line 1+2 even there, isn't 4+5 enough?
2020-08-31T02:57:22 < Cracki> I don't see it doing anything
2020-08-31T02:57:37 < Cracki> this is what I mean
2020-08-31T02:58:20 < R2COM> https://paste.ofcode.org/mHURVsACXSwNATXwtFnapA
2020-08-31T02:58:21 < R2COM> ^
2020-08-31T02:58:25 < R2COM> here how it must be
2020-08-31T02:58:27 < R2COM> no xc
2020-08-31T02:58:33 < Cracki> we both don't know this stuff, but you simultaneously have a problem to solve, and want to explain how it works
2020-08-31T02:58:40 < R2COM> but there must be indication of type for which template function is operating on
2020-08-31T02:58:50 < R2COM> look
2020-08-31T02:58:54 < R2COM> latest paste
2020-08-31T02:59:26 < Cracki> I did, but I care very little
2020-08-31T03:00:21 < R2COM> i mean
2020-08-31T03:00:23 < R2COM> its solved now
2020-08-31T03:00:24 < R2COM> it works
2020-08-31T03:00:31 < Cracki> there's always this balance between being diplomatic and indirect, and being blunt but understandable
2020-08-31T03:00:31 < R2COM> and proper way of using it is found
2020-08-31T03:04:04 < R2COM> oh
2020-08-31T03:04:10 < R2COM> need to drop inline, as Thorn said
2020-08-31T03:04:17 < R2COM> cuz its there by default i guess
2020-08-31T03:04:47 < R2COM> hm waity
2020-08-31T03:06:01 < R2COM> i think Thorn was wrong
2020-08-31T03:06:10 < R2COM> he would be right if its inside class
2020-08-31T03:07:06 < R2COM> https://stackoverflow.com/questions/17667098/inline-template-function
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2020-08-31T03:11:33 < R2COM> here is a final fully proper snippet:
2020-08-31T03:11:38 < R2COM> https://paste.ofcode.org/kXtqmeRR6GwgFedcYG38f6
2020-08-31T03:14:03 < Cracki> ok so this exists, oh well https://en.cppreference.com/w/cpp/language/template_specialization
2020-08-31T03:14:23 < Cracki> I'm not a C++ programmer, never claimed to be, never want to be
2020-08-31T03:14:51 < R2COM> its time to, its 2020
2020-08-31T03:14:56 < R2COM> so start now
2020-08-31T03:14:59 < Cracki> wrong attitude
2020-08-31T03:15:23 < R2COM> but i mean its used in all massive software design, again gaming lets say
2020-08-31T03:15:28 < Cracki> just because you love it doesn't mean everyone has to be using it
2020-08-31T03:15:32 < R2COM> unrealengine is c++
2020-08-31T03:15:35 < Cracki> I am not a game programme
2020-08-31T03:15:38 < Cracki> r
2020-08-31T03:15:46 < Cracki> do you want everyone to be game programmers? or c++ programmers?
2020-08-31T03:16:04 < R2COM> engine programmers i assume are hardcore c++ progarmmers
2020-08-31T03:16:04 < Cracki> or is there maybe room for people who do something else, where c++ isn't vital?
2020-08-31T03:16:15 < R2COM> F35 using c++
2020-08-31T03:16:33 < R2COM> xD
2020-08-31T03:16:39 < Cracki> yeah good example
2020-08-31T03:16:59 < Cracki> I'm not sure you want to use the F35 as an example of successful software development
2020-08-31T03:17:11 < R2COM> it is, its software is perfect
2020-08-31T03:17:19 < Cracki> I understand
2020-08-31T03:17:40 < Cracki> I'm gonna go click on some of laurence's links now
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2020-08-31T04:26:28 < jadew`> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aD8s3IxmTW4
2020-08-31T04:47:52 < Cracki> yeet
2020-08-31T04:48:29 < Cracki> taiwan, the good guys
2020-08-31T04:50:43 < Cracki> yeah ragdoll prop
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2020-08-31T07:33:48 < antto> accept teh cpp in ur life, Cracki
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2020-08-31T10:23:27 < Steffanx> Antto: So help this guy next time. Dont let him suffer so much
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2020-08-31T14:41:12 < Mangy_Dog>  https://www.therpf.com/forums/threads/my-working-stargate-miniature.328766/page-4#post-5107713   I just want to cry right now
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2020-08-31T14:42:15 < Steffanx> Aah damn. The shrinkage:(
2020-08-31T14:44:40 < Mangy_Dog> this projects just been one desaster after another
2020-08-31T14:44:42 < Mangy_Dog> i just want it to end
2020-08-31T14:44:48 < Mangy_Dog> and get on with other things
2020-08-31T14:51:51 < karlp> send your files to shapeways pnoko and just get someone to make them that way?
2020-08-31T14:52:01 < Mangy_Dog> money
2020-08-31T14:52:05 < Mangy_Dog> lots of money
2020-08-31T14:52:11 < Mangy_Dog> also this is too detailed for sls
2020-08-31T14:52:30 < karlp> they have _many_ options aiui.
2020-08-31T14:53:03 < karlp> well, was just suggesting it as a "pay one more time for some pros to do it instead of keep paying to try ohter methods"
2020-08-31T14:55:27 < Mangy_Dog> it need to be resin printing, but to get all the parts resin printed by some one like shapeways, will cost in the region of 1000-2000 dollars
2020-08-31T14:55:35 < Mangy_Dog> really not worth it :D
2020-08-31T14:56:39 < karlp> so.. if you tone down some details, woudl that help you? 
2020-08-31T14:57:49 < Mangy_Dog> not really
2020-08-31T14:59:06 < Mangy_Dog> even if i sls the parts and loose some detail... it would still cost 1000-2000
2020-08-31T14:59:16 < Mangy_Dog> resin will just be a bit on the higher end of it
2020-08-31T14:59:41 < Mangy_Dog> it would actually be cheaper to preorder teh elegoo saturn or the anycubic printer
2020-08-31T14:59:55 < Mangy_Dog> and print all the parts myself and then not have to deal with casting shrinage
2020-08-31T14:59:58 < Mangy_Dog> shinkage
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2020-08-31T15:21:47 < karlp> how did you make your moulds?
2020-08-31T15:21:56 < Mangy_Dog> silicone
2020-08-31T15:22:06 < Mangy_Dog> made some masters on my resin printer
2020-08-31T15:22:36 < karlp> but that can't just make finals?
2020-08-31T15:22:37 < Mangy_Dog> but i have to print tall as they dont fit in xy
2020-08-31T15:22:45 < Mangy_Dog> it takes 30-40 hours per part
2020-08-31T15:22:52 < Mangy_Dog> i need 20 parts
2020-08-31T15:22:54 < Mangy_Dog> :)
2020-08-31T15:23:06 < karlp> well, you've already decided to spend time not money :)
2020-08-31T15:23:12 < karlp> and it's ~unattended right?
2020-08-31T15:23:15 < Mangy_Dog> ive spent too much already
2020-08-31T15:23:30 < Mangy_Dog> of both
2020-08-31T15:23:41 < Mangy_Dog> sorry no
2020-08-31T15:23:43 < Mangy_Dog> 30 parts
2020-08-31T15:24:07 < Mangy_Dog> but maybe able to reduce that to 27
2020-08-31T15:24:25 < karlp> if they're long curved bars, can you fit two at a time in the printer?
2020-08-31T15:24:46 < Mangy_Dog> if i had the elegoo saturn or simular printer, I could print the parts down at the build plate, and could fit 2 or 3 at a time....
2020-08-31T15:24:53 < Mangy_Dog> i would be able to print all the parts in a few days
2020-08-31T15:24:55 < Mangy_Dog> that way
2020-08-31T15:25:09 < Mangy_Dog> if i printed all the parts tall one at a time. your talking a few months of back to back printing
2020-08-31T15:25:16 < Mangy_Dog> na
2020-08-31T15:25:22 < Mangy_Dog> cant print more than one at a time
2020-08-31T15:25:27 < Mangy_Dog> tried that orientation before
2020-08-31T15:25:45 < Mangy_Dog> oh and that also doesnt include the greebly winged parts either
2020-08-31T15:26:02 < Mangy_Dog> that cant fit with it tall, as theres not enough z height on the printer
2020-08-31T15:26:03 < karlp> reprint your master to allow for more shrinkage?
2020-08-31T15:26:18 < karlp> choose different resin with less shrinkage?
2020-08-31T15:26:22 < Mangy_Dog> painful
2020-08-31T15:26:30 < Mangy_Dog> and means spending another 100 quid on resin and silicone
2020-08-31T15:26:43 < karlp> just trying to come up with ideas :)
2020-08-31T15:26:55 < Mangy_Dog> its ok
2020-08-31T15:27:12 < Mangy_Dog> ive just been at this since march :p kinda tried a lot of things already
2020-08-31T15:27:19 < Mangy_Dog> hense why im so fed up wiht this project now
2020-08-31T15:27:38 < karlp> did you actually try pricing shapeways/pnoko, or just declare "SLS isn't viable" ?
2020-08-31T15:27:42 < Steffanx> Didnt they specify the shrinkage?
2020-08-31T15:30:00 < Mangy_Dog> steffanx no they didnt
2020-08-31T15:30:17 < Mangy_Dog> i even reread the page shortly before posting to double check
2020-08-31T15:36:35 < karlp> so what resin did you buy?
2020-08-31T15:38:20 < Mangy_Dog> https://www.easycomposites.co.uk/#!/resin-gel-silicone-adhesive/casting-resin/toughened-polyurethane-casting-resin.html
2020-08-31T15:42:23 < karlp> claims 0.09% shrinkage, not 5% hav eyou tried speaking to the vendor, those are radically different....
2020-08-31T15:43:34 < jpa-> have you measured that the shrinkage was in resin and not silicone stage? though 5% is huge anyway
2020-08-31T15:43:57 < jpa-> maybe it is not shrinkage but some other kind of distortion, like bending
2020-08-31T15:44:10 < Mangy_Dog> given the masters came out the silicone... the shrinkage in the silicone should have set around the masters size
2020-08-31T15:44:11 < Mangy_Dog> sooooooo
2020-08-31T15:44:16 < Mangy_Dog> cant be that
2020-08-31T15:44:40 < jpa-> well, silicone is flexible, it can shrink or bend a bit more after masters are removed
2020-08-31T15:44:49 < jpa-> though 5% is a lot
2020-08-31T15:47:01 < Mangy_Dog> the master is 18cm tip to tip the dupliate is 17.8
2020-08-31T15:47:21 < Mangy_Dog> just messured with a ruler :p
2020-08-31T15:47:46 < jpa-> yeah, but it can distort in other ways than linear shrinkage
2020-08-31T15:48:09 < jpa-> but isn't that just 1.2%?
2020-08-31T15:48:26 < karlp> fake news
2020-08-31T15:48:41 < Mangy_Dog> hay i was going by eye before :p
2020-08-31T15:49:09 < jpa-> if you want to check more accurately, trace the outline of each on paper
2020-08-31T15:49:18 < jpa-> then you can see if it is shrinkage or bending
2020-08-31T15:49:20 < Mangy_Dog> thats not so easy
2020-08-31T15:49:32 < Mangy_Dog> theyre curved 
2020-08-31T15:49:46 < jpa-> ah, on both surfaces? i thought you'd have one side flat
2020-08-31T15:49:53 < Mangy_Dog> na
2020-08-31T15:49:56 < Mangy_Dog> and yes
2020-08-31T15:50:12 < Mangy_Dog> curved in 2 axis
2020-08-31T15:50:40 < jpa-> taking a photo from a large distance (like a few meters) with zoom works also
2020-08-31T15:50:45 < jpa-> then you can compare in gimp :)
2020-08-31T15:50:50 < Mangy_Dog> heh
2020-08-31T15:51:03 < Mangy_Dog> i can see it with my own eyes anyway
2020-08-31T15:51:14 < Mangy_Dog> its more obviouse when i put it on the frame
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2020-08-31T15:51:30 < jpa-> well sure, but eyeballing is not enough to get anything fixed :)
2020-08-31T15:52:38 < Mangy_Dog> well no
2020-08-31T15:52:39 < Mangy_Dog> but
2020-08-31T15:52:49 < Mangy_Dog> im going to have to just hack it together
2020-08-31T15:53:05 < Mangy_Dog> https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/695271473308237985/749974922616373308/IMG_20200831_135201.jpg
2020-08-31T15:53:11 < Mangy_Dog> the parts should be meeting flush
2020-08-31T15:53:25 < Mangy_Dog> and flat to the frame
2020-08-31T15:53:51 < Mangy_Dog> and i had to do some internal trimming with the dremel to make it fit to the frame
2020-08-31T15:53:52 < jpa-> so there is going to be a connecting part between them? just adjust them?
2020-08-31T15:53:54 < Mangy_Dog> it was tooooooo tight
2020-08-31T15:54:06 < Mangy_Dog> yeah the chevrom frame part goes over that
2020-08-31T15:54:13 < Mangy_Dog> will hide some of teh issues
2020-08-31T15:54:24 < Mangy_Dog> but the bits where the frame meets the part, theres a gap
2020-08-31T15:54:29 < Mangy_Dog> when it should be flush
2020-08-31T15:54:31 < Mangy_Dog> soooo
2020-08-31T15:54:33 < Mangy_Dog> its not goign to be perfect
2020-08-31T15:54:43 < Mangy_Dog> the biggest fear is the moving chevron
2020-08-31T15:55:03 < Mangy_Dog> with this shinkage theres just NO way the arms are going to fit the slots now
2020-08-31T15:55:11 < Mangy_Dog> gonna have to get nasty with a dremel to widen them
2020-08-31T15:56:00 < Mangy_Dog> and it looks like some parts have slightly distorted out a bit as well im hoping the resin is still soft enough that the pressure of the chevron frame part will hold it it in place
2020-08-31T15:56:04 < Mangy_Dog> along with glue
2020-08-31T15:56:23 < Mangy_Dog> i realise none of this means anything to you as you dont knwo the parts im talking about
2020-08-31T15:56:23 < Mangy_Dog> but
2020-08-31T15:56:29 < Mangy_Dog> it helps speaking it out loud :p
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2020-08-31T16:35:22 < Mangy_Dog> :/ computer reset itself again
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2020-08-31T16:43:02 < Steffanx> Apple ware?
2020-08-31T16:43:15 < Mangy_Dog> na pc
2020-08-31T16:43:29 < Mangy_Dog> im wondering if my digit counter thing is causing it
2020-08-31T16:43:38 < Mangy_Dog> as its only started happening when its been plugged in all the time
2020-08-31T16:43:53 < Mangy_Dog> soooooo unplugged the uplink usb connector on the monitor its connected through
2020-08-31T16:44:10 < Mangy_Dog> if my computer shuts down again over the next 72 hours i know its not the display
2020-08-31T16:45:30 < Mangy_Dog> i was wondering if the constant serial being sent to the pc might be causing some strange error
2020-08-31T16:45:44 < Mangy_Dog> as the usb is connected to the esp
2020-08-31T16:45:51 < Mangy_Dog> to upload to it
2020-08-31T16:46:02 < Mangy_Dog> but it mirrors the serial connection to the arduino in my display
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2020-08-31T19:15:06 < Steffanx> Hm
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2020-08-31T20:00:38 < antto> aww, ST is vomiting spam at me too often
2020-08-31T20:00:53 < antto> eye-oh-tea and AI sh*t
2020-08-31T20:04:13 < Steffanx> http://t.info.st.com/r/?id=haohguy=&p1=annttoo unsubscribe 
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2020-08-31T23:40:28 < zyp> Steffanx, need some rocks? https://bin.jvnv.net/file/CUPFt.jpg https://bin.jvnv.net/file/q9jkR.jpg
2020-08-31T23:41:56 < Cracki> put a fence around it, add more hammers, sell it as the gulag experience
2020-08-31T23:42:59 < zyp> broke the fucking drill bit https://bin.jvnv.net/file/umAz4.jpg
2020-08-31T23:43:54 < Cracki> what did it look like before?
2020-08-31T23:44:06 < Cracki> that canyon looks funny
2020-08-31T23:44:26 < Cracki> was there a kind of inset piece of metal that got ripped out?
2020-08-31T23:44:38 < zyp> yeah
2020-08-31T23:44:51 < zyp> idk if it got ripped out or what happened
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2020-08-31T23:45:01 < Steffanx> Heh  zyp  in dutchland we would pay big bucks for rocks like that for in the garden
2020-08-31T23:45:34 < zyp> rent a truck and come load up for free :)
2020-08-31T23:46:12 < Steffanx> Next week? 
2020-08-31T23:46:20 < zyp> any time
2020-08-31T23:46:37 < Steffanx> Lol. Nah thanks
2020-08-31T23:46:46 < Cracki> I doubt there was ever an "in"set in that tip. looks like a thin piece on top, and the innards of this thing look like junk stuffed in for filling
2020-08-31T23:47:30 < zyp> wat
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2020-08-31T23:49:03 < Cracki> I can't make sense of this tear.
2020-08-31T23:49:19 < Cracki> it's deep, jagged
2020-08-31T23:49:30 < Cracki> but not wide enough for a flat inset that was welded in or something
2020-08-31T23:50:01 < Cracki> I'd say it's a body of cheap/weak/soft material, some coating, and then a thin bit welded on, which got ripped off
2020-08-31T23:50:06 < zyp> well, yeah, I guess that's what happens when you try drilling with it without the inset
2020-08-31T23:50:30 < Cracki> no no, I mean stone drills have this particular tip shape
2020-08-31T23:50:52 < zyp> hang on, I'll go get the new one I just picked up and get you a photo
2020-08-31T23:51:24 < Cracki> like so, body of the bit is different material from the "inset"https://www.diager.com/content/uploads/2016/08/208-FORET-PIERRE-DURE-GRANIT-343x325.jpg
2020-08-31T23:51:48 < Cracki> that's a flat piece welded in or something (brazed?? idgaf)
2020-08-31T23:52:26 < Cracki> tip on that one looks similar https://images-na.ssl-images-amazon.com/images/I/61tiXoug7zL._AC_SX355_.jpg
2020-08-31T23:52:55 < qyx> zyp: looks like our garden
2020-08-31T23:52:58 < Cracki> at best I'd say that piece _melted_. I can't imagine what physical stresses would cause your bit to look like that
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2020-08-31T23:55:09 < zyp> https://bin.jvnv.net/file/0ArTL.jpg
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2020-08-31T23:57:57 < zyp> according to specs, the inset is yk20
2020-08-31T23:57:58 < Cracki> ye, that must have melted (wtf it's not supposed to) because I don't see it getting ripped out and leaving such a narrow canyon
2020-08-31T23:58:40 < zyp> idk
2020-08-31T23:58:43 < Cracki> same
2020-08-31T23:59:43 < Cracki> tungsten carbide, hardness grade
2020-08-31T23:59:57 < Cracki> maybe something else but close
2020-08-31T23:59:57 < zyp> yes, hardness yk20
--- Log closed Tue Sep 01 00:00:10 2020