--- Log opened Tue Sep 01 00:00:10 2020
--- Day changed Tue Sep 01 2020
2020-09-01T00:00:10 < zyp> I have no idea how it disappeared, but it doesn't seem weird to me that the metal around it deformed like that after it was gone
2020-09-01T00:00:38 < zyp> after all, I was drilling with it, only noticed something was wrong when it wasn't progressing properly
2020-09-01T00:01:27 < zyp> wonder if I could clean it up and weld in a new tip
2020-09-01T00:01:44 < zyp> probably wouldn't be worth the time, but idk
2020-09-01T00:03:38 < invzim> sds max?
2020-09-01T00:03:42 < zyp> yeah
2020-09-01T00:03:57 < invzim> manly!
2020-09-01T00:04:09 < zyp> hardly
2020-09-01T00:06:05 < invzim> switching apartment in the city for a house outside the city=my own home office/lab! \o/
2020-09-01T00:06:54 < invzim> no boulder removal needed tho
2020-09-01T00:07:11 < zyp> even sds max feels like a toy for this job, tempted to rent a proper pneumatic drill and compressor
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2020-09-01T00:07:36 < invzim> I'm sure you've considered blasting?
2020-09-01T00:07:59 < zyp> no, expanding mortar
2020-09-01T00:08:26 < zyp> but that's not the issue, either needs holes drilled frist
2020-09-01T00:08:38 < invzim> get a quote for the job from contractors?
2020-09-01T00:09:00 < zyp> that's no fun :p
2020-09-01T00:09:46 < zyp> pretty sure it's cheaper to rent a pneumatic drill than to hire people to come use a pneumatic drill
2020-09-01T00:10:16 < invzim> for sure, as long as you think it's fun :)
2020-09-01T00:10:47 < invzim> any tips on brand for lab workbench/desk?
2020-09-01T00:11:20 < qyx> zyp: non-explosive blasting agent?
2020-09-01T00:11:35 < zyp> breaking rocks with plug wedges is actually pretty damn fun, it's just tedious to break them down into sizes I can actually lift
2020-09-01T00:11:37 < qyx> I tried to buy such thing once
2020-09-01T00:12:12 < zyp> which again comes back to drilling
2020-09-01T00:12:27 < zyp> wedging is quick, it's the drilling that takes time
2020-09-01T00:13:00 < qyx> yeah but drill a few holes, pour the thing inside and wait
2020-09-01T00:13:10 < qyx> you can do other things until it breaks
2020-09-01T00:13:18 < zyp> sure
2020-09-01T00:13:39 < zyp> I'll probably try that when I get around to the back wall, more mountain to break there
2020-09-01T00:13:49 < qyx> lol
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2020-09-01T00:24:13 < PaulFertser> What's funny tungsten carbide (+ 10 % Cobalt) is called "pobedit" in russian which sounds like "material that wins". 
2020-09-01T00:42:07 < Steffanx> Heh
2020-09-01T00:49:28 < PaulFertser> Communists back then liked inventing new words. And even names for people. E.g. DaZdraPerMa which was a weird abbreviation of SAlute to the FIRst of MAy.
2020-09-01T00:59:40 < PaulFertser> Imagine Laurenceb was named GOSATQUE for GOd SAve The QUEen.
2020-09-01T01:00:26 < PaulFertser> I'd say it'd sound about as odd as Dazdraperma in russian.
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2020-09-01T01:23:16 < Cracki> qyx, "expando" is a brand of chemically expanding goo. pour it in the hole, let sit for a few days
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2020-09-01T01:26:08 < Cracki> "chemical cracking agent"
2020-09-01T01:26:21 < Cracki> appears to be an aussie (local?) brand
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2020-09-01T01:33:19 < Cracki> same goo different continent https://www.dexpan.com/pages/how-to-use-dexpan-break-concrete-rocks-easily
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2020-09-01T03:12:25 < Cracki> could you translate that
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2020-09-01T08:51:15 < R2COM> zyp is it doable to make scons build verilog/vhdl projects? or is there already such solution for scons
2020-09-01T09:33:10 < zyp> scons can build anything if you just set up appropriate builders
2020-09-01T09:33:26 < zyp> I've considered to do just that, but haven't gotten around to it
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2020-09-01T10:52:26 < jpa-> depending on build tools, the dependency tracking will either need some tuning or not be of much use for vhdl/verilog
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2020-09-01T11:38:50 < dongs> ok so
2020-09-01T11:39:14 < dongs> i got an unmarked STM32 with DBGMCU_IDCODE 0x10640320
2020-09-01T11:42:30 < dongs> anythign else I can check to figure out what the fuck it is
2020-09-01T11:43:12 < dongs> 0x320 is not any core ID code thaT I can finde
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2020-09-01T11:55:42 < jpa-> dongs: you could start by trying to figure out if it is GPIOv1 or GPIOv2
2020-09-01T11:56:58 < dongs> i have ozone connected and i can read/write memory i guess
2020-09-01T11:57:39 < dongs> CPUID is 0x411FC231
2020-09-01T11:58:24 < dongs> looks liek 103?
2020-09-01T11:58:36 < jpa-> isn't that cortex-m0+ or something?
2020-09-01T12:00:04 < jpa-> err no
2020-09-01T12:00:11 < jpa-> yeah, F103 could be
2020-09-01T12:01:37 < dongs> weird that IDCODE is completely customized
2020-09-01T12:02:03 < dongs> F103VL is 0x420 
2020-09-01T12:02:21 < dongs> and revisions don't have 0x64 in them revisions are usually 0x1000, 1001, etc
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2020-09-01T12:05:34 < jpa-> gigadevice has stuff like GD32F190 that doesn't match any of the STM32 parts
2020-09-01T12:05:41 < dongs> yeah but this is ST
2020-09-01T12:05:43 < dongs> for sure
2020-09-01T12:05:47 < dongs> custom marked
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2020-09-01T12:06:11 < dongs> so i guess 'custom' part also gives you some modifications over ideocde
2020-09-01T12:06:13 < dongs> IDCODE
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2020-09-01T12:18:42 < zyp> jpa-, I'd argue dependency tracking has its uses even for fpga projects
2020-09-01T12:20:13 < zyp> on one hand, you don't really do partial builds to the same degree as software projects, since all sources go into the full synthesis and p&r
2020-09-01T12:21:07 < zyp> on the other hand, it's useful to avoid having to rerun it when producing side outputs or running other rules
2020-09-01T12:21:55 < zyp> e.g. a load rule would benefit from it, since it could either trigger a bitstream build or use a prebuilt bitstream
2020-09-01T12:22:35 < zyp> or changing bram contents
2020-09-01T12:41:31 < jpa-> zyp: yeah, but depending on tools you possibly only pass a project file to the synthetizer/bitstream generator, and then scons does not see the files it depends on unless one lists them manually or makes some custom piece of code to read the list from project file
2020-09-01T12:57:18 < Steffanx> antto:  you've got mail
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2020-09-01T13:17:35 < zyp> jpa-, in that case, wouldn't the scons builder generate that file?
2020-09-01T13:22:57 < jpa-> zyp: that's one way to go about it, yeah
2020-09-01T13:23:06 < jpa-> depends on tools how feasible it is
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2020-09-01T16:14:51 < Steffanx> Hm
2020-09-01T16:37:33 < karlp> fucking hell UL testing is just getting worse and worse.
2020-09-01T16:38:00 < karlp> "ok, we agree this isn't accessible, but you might connect somethign else and that might have exposed bits, so you have to do this extra testing on all your own pieces too"
2020-09-01T16:44:34 < Steffanx> Haha
2020-09-01T16:50:28 < karlp> someone was speaking of captchas the other day: https://security.googleblog.com/2020/01/pha-family-highlights-bread-and-friends.html
2020-09-01T16:50:52 < karlp> (far enough down, they talk of some malware that was screenscraping the captcha and submitting it to onlien services to solve and submit)
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2020-09-01T17:11:02 < R2COM> so making scons build it would require to fuck around scons source or no?
2020-09-01T17:11:11 < R2COM> or just SConstruct?
2020-09-01T17:11:38 < mawk> look at readme
2020-09-01T17:12:11 < R2COM> i dont recall it mentioning fpga related stuff
2020-09-01T17:13:00 < mawk> ah you mean build using scons
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2020-09-01T17:29:29 < bitmask> printer connection board :P https://i.imgur.com/5feN7Tq.png
2020-09-01T17:29:31 < bitmask> so complex
2020-09-01T17:32:59 < karlp> yay. tripped the breaker, burnt out a usb ttl adapater and both usb ports ont he side oft he monitor.
2020-09-01T17:33:35 < karlp> bitmask: are those still readable when the cables ar eplugged in?
2020-09-01T17:34:01 < bitmask> dunno, doesn't matter though
2020-09-01T17:34:33 < bitmask> i can just look on my computer, its not like i will be unplugging often at all
2020-09-01T17:52:37 < sync> wat karlp?
2020-09-01T17:57:01 < karlp> which part?
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2020-09-01T18:05:18 < karlp> ul is annex f for 61010 shitz.
2020-09-01T18:06:15 < karlp> what happened on my desk was ground lead connected to a usb-ttl dongle touched an 230V terminal unexpectedly.
2020-09-01T18:07:37 < zyp> fun
2020-09-01T18:07:56 < karlp> not really.
2020-09-01T18:08:16 < karlp> had to go and find someone upstairs to even get me into the cabinet to reset the breaker as for some reasont he door's locked now.
2020-09-01T18:08:35 < karlp> all happening at the same time as smoke alarms were being tested audibly.
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2020-09-01T19:03:01 < Steffanx> Arent you working safely with 230V on your desk mr karlp?
2020-09-01T19:05:17 < jpa-> no GFCI?
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2020-09-01T19:07:35 < englishman> I got the job offer
2020-09-01T19:09:33 < englishman> it's a 8.5% raise
2020-09-01T19:09:43 < englishman> but I got a 9.3% raise last year
2020-09-01T19:10:00 < englishman> the previous raise won't be repeated, but still, I was expecting a bit more
2020-09-01T19:10:08 < englishman> I guess I'm supposed to counter offer
2020-09-01T19:10:14 < jpa-> so how much in absolute units?
2020-09-01T19:10:26 < Steffanx> 100 billion
2020-09-01T19:10:27 < jpa-> we need to know whether it is worth it to steal your bitcoins
2020-09-01T19:11:20 < englishman> no
2020-09-01T19:11:38 < englishman> remember the Canadian dollar is worthless
2020-09-01T19:11:42 < Steffanx> Cant steal what he doesnt have?
2020-09-01T19:12:29 < Steffanx> 1 CAD = 0.64 Euro buck... so the euro is just a little less worthless?
2020-09-01T19:12:57 < englishman> the work will admittedly be more interesting
2020-09-01T19:13:20 < englishman> do I ask for a ton more money or just a little bit more?
2020-09-01T19:14:08 < jpa-> i think you should be happy with your 100 billion
2020-09-01T19:14:54 < englishman> the worst they can say is no
2020-09-01T19:14:59 < englishman> then I stick with my current job
2020-09-01T19:15:02 < englishman> which is OK
2020-09-01T19:16:06 < Steffanx> Wasnt it medical stuff?
2020-09-01T19:16:18 < Steffanx> Doesnt that usually mean a shitload of boring paper work?
2020-09-01T19:18:10 < Cracki> companies doing that sometimes decide to create a red tape department that handles it
2020-09-01T19:18:41 < Cracki> so the engineers do their engineering, and the red tapers swoop in, do reviews, and give specific guidance
2020-09-01T19:19:26 < Cracki> kinda like a testing department, except they don't smash things with hammers but with paragraphs
2020-09-01T19:23:02 < englishman> there's already a shit load of boring paperwork here due to iso
2020-09-01T19:23:06 < englishman> so not much change
2020-09-01T19:23:15 < englishman> anyway there is a Dept. for that
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2020-09-01T19:32:43 < Steffanx> Aah yes. The iso factory. Love it
2020-09-01T19:33:29 < englishman> hmm it's 40 hours per week as well instead of 36
2020-09-01T19:35:55 < karlp> well, there's a gfci in the breaker panel, yeah.
2020-09-01T19:37:12 < englishman> karlp is the only true hundred billionaire here
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2020-09-01T19:55:24 < antto> Steffanx, que?
2020-09-01T19:55:56 < antto> i do, BLDC bullshizzle
2020-09-01T19:56:45 < Steffanx> I just wanted to let you know.
2020-09-01T19:57:44 < antto> >:/
2020-09-01T19:58:04 < antto> send me an email next time
2020-09-01T19:58:33 < antto> IRC is for import0nt sh*t
2020-09-01T19:59:02 < antto> oh look, breggzitman is here
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2020-09-01T21:34:00 < qyx> whos trolling https://www.thedrive.com/the-war-zone/36096/airline-pilots-landing-at-lax-report-a-guy-in-jetpack-flying-alongside-them-on
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2020-09-01T21:59:13 < Cracki> this "ufos are real" BS is such BS
2020-09-01T21:59:22 < Cracki> "not from this world" oh so it's a meteorite
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2020-09-02T11:05:46 < qyx> soldering bga256 with hotair on a chinese 4L board
2020-09-02T11:06:04 < qyx> Info : stm32f7x.cpu: hardware has 8 breakpoints, 4 watchpoints
2020-09-02T11:06:09 < qyx> looks like swd works
2020-09-02T11:06:16 < qyx> until openocd: /Host/home/ilg/Work/openocd-0.10.0-12/openocd.git/src/flash/nor/stm32f2x.c:901: setup_sector: Assertion `i < bank->num_sectors' failed.
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2020-09-02T11:51:14 < karlp> which part?
2020-09-02T11:52:33 < karlp> and what version is that? looks old
2020-09-02T11:53:15 < karlp> looks like you'r emissing 9f1529da4fcc7d1e508ab9ea4dc915800d68e730
2020-09-02T11:53:32 < karlp> (you have a tiny f7?
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2020-09-02T11:56:15 < qyx> yeah this is a 64K F750
2020-09-02T11:56:40 < qyx> now I am trying to compile uboot first
2020-09-02T11:56:57 < qyx> under 64K...
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2020-09-02T11:57:45 < qyx> actually I downloaded buildroot but uh oh, starting with a discrete u-boot first
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2020-09-02T12:09:30 < qyx> 349K, what about no
2020-09-02T12:12:00 < jpa-> googling suggests that 128kB is the recommended minimum flash for uboot
2020-09-02T12:12:17 < jpa-> are you going to run linux on that?
2020-09-02T12:15:33 < qyx> I'll try to put spl in the on-chip flash and the rest on SPI flash
2020-09-02T12:27:00 < qyx> new openocd flashes and verifies ok.
2020-09-02T12:27:16 < qyx> time to solder wires to usart test pads
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2020-09-02T12:44:12 < dongs> lul NXP DAPLink shit comes up as a 64meg USB flash drive
2020-09-02T12:44:21 < dongs> i bet you could drag and drop hex files into that shit
2020-09-02T12:44:41 < karlp> well, yeah, nxp wsa where mbed shit came from isn't it?
2020-09-02T12:44:49 < dongs> <meta charset="utf-8">
2020-09-02T12:44:49 < dongs> <title>mbed Website Shortcut</title>
2020-09-02T12:44:49 < dongs> </head>
2020-09-02T12:44:50 < dongs> oh
2020-09-02T12:44:53 < dongs> you called it yeah
2020-09-02T12:45:08 < dongs> aids
2020-09-02T12:45:30 < karlp> I think it was better than arduino,but never landed the right way up?
2020-09-02T12:48:14 < jpa-> i actually had to try it out at a time for some work project; the web "IDE" was way worse than even arduino managed, and the downloaded stuff suffered from not being the "normal" way to do things in the ecosystem
2020-09-02T12:49:10 < karlp> oh well then.
2020-09-02T12:49:25 < karlp> arduino was nothing like the "normal" way either, but it all worked ok apart form that horrific editor
2020-09-02T12:49:30 < jpa-> the code itself didn't seem particularly bad
2020-09-02T12:49:41 < karlp> yeah, code always seemed well thought out
2020-09-02T12:50:30 < jpa-> i mean, normal way in the mbed ecosystem; to me it seemed even if one downloaded stuff, then to submit changes to other projects or manage dependencies & stuff you sometimes had to resort to the web interface and redownload and mess unnecessarily much - but it may be that i just didn't know how to use it
2020-09-02T12:51:32 < jpa-> i guess it could have worked out for beginners the same way arduino did, *except* that they managed to make up even worse editor than arduino
2020-09-02T12:55:44 < karlp> yeah, I ignored them unitl they gave up on their cloud idea only idea,
2020-09-02T12:55:54 < karlp> and I think I was far from the only one.
2020-09-02T13:02:05 < Steffanx> I love SD cards. First it all works fine, then you want to reinitialize after card reinsertion and it fails to set it into 4bit mode.
2020-09-02T13:03:39 < qyx> thats the only thing needed to start a linux kernel? https://github.com/mcoquelin-stm32/afboot-stm32/blob/master/start_kernel.c
2020-09-02T13:04:34 < qyx> with none-eabi?
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2020-09-02T13:09:04 < karlp> afaerber is an interesting character
2020-09-02T13:12:27 < Steffanx> Im not sure if interesting is a positive thing here
2020-09-02T13:13:19 < qyx> everything is half-assed in that domain
2020-09-02T13:13:29 < qyx> do I want console on usart6 instead of usart1? fukoff
2020-09-02T13:13:43 < qyx> no console at all in SPL
2020-09-02T13:13:53 < qyx> do you want one? write your own puts
2020-09-02T13:14:20 < qyx> I was thinking both F7 and u-boot are so common there should be no problem
2020-09-02T13:14:36 < qyx> make menuconfig, read a bit, find uboot console, change from usart1 to usart6
2020-09-02T13:14:39 < qyx> No.
2020-09-02T13:15:11 < qyx> find that damned devicetree among millions of others
2020-09-02T13:15:16 < qyx> copy paste some fragments
2020-09-02T13:15:25 < qyx> then find out u-boot uses a different one
2020-09-02T13:16:47 < qyx> ok, so, try something other like afboot
2020-09-02T13:17:00  * qyx opens its github project
2020-09-02T13:17:06 < qyx> it is a fucking single file foo.c
2020-09-02T13:17:12 < Steffanx> Haha the open sores joys
2020-09-02T13:18:12 < qyx> so copy paste some code, dram init, and such
2020-09-02T13:18:31 < qyx> I was thinking I could load an image from a spi flash to DRAM with ~5 lines of code
2020-09-02T13:18:44 < qyx> but I have to program the SPI flash first
2020-09-02T13:18:59 < qyx> opening man openocd, Nope.
2020-09-02T13:19:09 < qyx> no support for external spi flashes
2020-09-02T13:35:17 < karlp> umm, sort of.
2020-09-02T13:35:19 < karlp> one tick
2020-09-02T13:36:52 < karlp> http://openocd.zylin.com/#/c/4321/
2020-09-02T13:41:05 < qyx> oh!
2020-09-02T13:41:47 < dongs> the fuck is that afboot
2020-09-02T13:41:50 < dongs> does that boot LUNIX??
2020-09-02T13:41:54 < karlp> dongs: yar
2020-09-02T13:41:59 < dongs> gods why
2020-09-02T13:42:10 < karlp> because st wanted it at one point
2020-09-02T13:42:27 < qyx> now it doesn't?
2020-09-02T13:42:28 < karlp> https://www.emcraft.com/stm32f429discovery
2020-09-02T13:42:41 < karlp> well, I presume they still want it.
2020-09-02T13:43:50 < karlp> qyx: there's also cfgi and jtagspi: http://openocd.org/doc/html/Flash-Commands.html#index-cfi
2020-09-02T13:45:17 < karlp> you can see further down that lpcspifi is already merged, the stm32 qspi one is intended to be similar aiui,
2020-09-02T13:46:25 < karlp> oh, there's also this one: bitbang it all! http://openocd.zylin.com/#/c/4760/
2020-09-02T13:47:42 < karlp> which looks really handy actually.
2020-09-02T14:05:12 < c10ud_> there was a nice blogpost from a linux developer that clarified what's needed for a correct boot on arm
2020-09-02T14:06:04 < karlp> you mean this one? https://people.kernel.org/linusw/how-the-arm32-linux-kernel-decompresses
2020-09-02T14:06:44 < c10ud_> yes
2020-09-02T14:07:36 < karlp> https://www.armlinux.org.uk/developer/booting.php is probably all that qyx really needs to see that that clal is sufficient
2020-09-02T14:10:28 < karlp> check out this glory meanwhile: https://www.aliexpress.com/item/4000907006370.html
2020-09-02T14:12:06 < c10ud_> lol
2020-09-02T14:13:31 < dongs> disgsuting
2020-09-02T14:13:40 < karlp> it's actually had a lot of thought go into it.  case is designed for plug in while in the box, all SMT, so no shorting to the desk on anything. someone spent a lot of time on ti :)
2020-09-02T14:26:04 < englishman> lol
2020-09-02T14:27:04 < qyx> karlp: the atags thing is probably obsolete
2020-09-02T14:29:38 < englishman> hey employed pros, how many hours per week are you required to work, and is your lunch time paid?
2020-09-02T14:32:35 < englishman> im required to work 36.25 hours, which means days are 830-5 with 1.25 hours of unpaid lunch, but it's flexible enough that none of that really matters as long as you arrive and leave at sane hours and get your shit done
2020-09-02T14:33:32 < karlp> 35.5hrs, lunch is paid, 30-60min, min of 5 hrs per week...
2020-09-02T14:33:49 < karlp> but yeah, normally just "get shit done"
2020-09-02T14:33:59 < englishman> I ask because this new company is asking for 40 hours, which I haven't seen in a while and consider old fashioned but maybe it's just me
2020-09-02T14:34:17 < englishman> or, the lunch is paid, they didn't write back yet
2020-09-02T14:34:29 < karlp> 40 hours is old fashioned yeah
2020-09-02T14:34:38 < englishman> so you're at more like 30 hours actual work
2020-09-02T14:34:41 < karlp> I still work over 40, but maybe i'm old and old fashioned.
2020-09-02T14:34:53 < karlp> also, I'm an executive or something...
2020-09-02T14:34:56 < englishman> yeah but from time to time, as the projects need it
2020-09-02T14:35:30 < qyx> full time is usually 8h/day, lunch is not included nor paid
2020-09-02T14:35:34 < englishman> if it's slow and you need to go do other shit, that extra hour or so each day gets pretty tiring
2020-09-02T14:35:45 < karlp> oh, I fuck off and do whatever, whenever
2020-09-02T14:35:47 < qyx> but there is a mandatory break of at least 30min if you work for more than 6 hours
2020-09-02T14:36:06 < englishman> so qyx is at 40/week
2020-09-02T14:36:14 < karlp> I'd kinda like to organise better and do 35.5 hours of work and then leave,
2020-09-02T14:36:15 < qyx> I am not, but it is usual here
2020-09-02T14:36:18 < englishman> ah
2020-09-02T14:38:26 < englishman> I think I will just decline this offer instead of making a counteroffer
2020-09-02T14:39:11 < englishman> though I don't risk anything by making a huge demand idk if I want to bother dealing with it if they say yes
2020-09-02T14:39:28 < englishman> and that's not a great way to start a new position
2020-09-02T14:40:24 < karlp> you were really excited about this before,
2020-09-02T14:40:34 < karlp> cultural issues like this weren't obvious earlier?
2020-09-02T14:41:14 < englishman> I was surprised at the 40 hours per week
2020-09-02T14:41:34 < englishman> and, no
2020-09-02T14:41:44 < karlp> maybe just check they didn't dust off an old form?
2020-09-02T14:43:27 < englishman> or were shooting in the dark
2020-09-02T14:44:10 < englishman> or the lunch hour is paid but I haven't seen that before here
2020-09-02T14:44:44 < englishman> unrelated: first day of paramotor practice was yesterday, super fun
2020-09-02T14:53:14 < zyp> 37.5 hours not counting unpaid lunch
2020-09-02T14:53:43 < zyp> i.e. 8 hours including 30 min lunch break
2020-09-02T14:54:25 < zyp> this is pretty standard here, every job I've had had those terms
2020-09-02T14:56:09 < zyp> also, here the distinction between paid and unpaid lunch is whether you have to be available while you eat or are free to leave the premises
2020-09-02T14:56:14 < c10ud_> 40/wk standard in it_IT, and lunch pause is your own business (meaning usually your lunch is paid for but not the time)
2020-09-02T14:57:18 < zyp> I think generally you either have 40/week with paid lunch or 37.5/week with unpaid lunch, so for a given monthly salary there's no real difference
2020-09-02T14:58:02 < qyx> yeah the lunch itself is paid here too usually
2020-09-02T14:58:14 < zyp> as in the food?
2020-09-02T14:58:29 < qyx> yes
2020-09-02T14:58:44 < zyp> that's not usually the case here, people either bring or buy food
2020-09-02T14:58:58 < zyp> or, that varies
2020-09-02T14:59:14 < qyx> theres a food ticket business here
2020-09-02T14:59:29 < zyp> one place I worked had like a simple buffet of bread and spreads
2020-09-02T14:59:37 < qyx> employers are obliged to give you food tickets or a prepaid card to buy your food with
2020-09-02T14:59:47 < zyp> and another had a discount in the company cafeteria
2020-09-02T15:00:05 < qyx> thats another thing, you may have such discounts too
2020-09-02T15:00:34 < zyp> but in general norwegian culture is big on bringing a packed lunch
2020-09-02T15:00:40 < qyx> but with food tickets/cards you can go shopping to tesco/lidl/kaufland whatever
2020-09-02T15:00:57 < zyp> https://www.vox.com/the-highlight/2019/10/7/20887473/norway-norwegian-lunch-sandwich-matpakke
2020-09-02T15:01:09 < qyx> lol
2020-09-02T15:01:35 < karlp> we have a very nice cafe upstairs for all the companies in the building, it's subsidized by most companies, and they have become quite a target for fancy chefs who want to have a better hours
2020-09-02T15:01:49 < karlp> so we get pretty nice food
2020-09-02T15:04:15 < qyx> mhm, maybe I'll try to make a TPL for uboot which configures QSPI as XIP
2020-09-02T15:04:27 < qyx> and then run the whole u-boot as is from the QSPI flash
2020-09-02T15:04:42 < qyx> leaving DRAM configuration for u-boot
2020-09-02T15:06:19 < karlp> when you're at TPL it sounds like you're already in a pit of hell IMO :)
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2020-09-02T15:52:20 < englishman> interesting that "poor" Norway was still giving fresh imported fruit to schoolchildren
2020-09-02T15:56:21 < karlp> poor norway?
2020-09-02T15:56:38 < englishman> from the article
2020-09-02T15:56:54 < englishman> the "Oslo breakfast"
2020-09-02T15:57:39 < karlp> yeah, no way of opting out of cookies, fuck those guys => closed
2020-09-02T16:06:00 < karlp> fucking trying out: https://edinburgh-genome-foundry.github.io/blabel/ use the examples, don't get the same output :|
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2020-09-02T16:19:28 < mawk> everyone above belgium is eating boring sandwiches for lunch in 10 minutes maximum it seems
2020-09-02T16:30:23 < Steffanx> Yes, why waste hours on lunch?
2020-09-02T16:36:06 < mawk> lunch is a pleasurable activity
2020-09-02T16:36:19 < mawk> in France I was going to restaurant every noon
2020-09-02T16:36:37 < mawk> also total productivity is loosely inversely proportional to amount of work
2020-09-02T16:36:38 < karlp> wat? I literatel yjust said we had a nice cafe with chefs and shit
2020-09-02T16:36:46 < mawk> give a lot of free time to employees, they perform well
2020-09-02T16:36:57 < mawk> yes you're the exception that confirms the rule karlp 
2020-09-02T16:37:02 < mawk> as the famous logic rule goes
2020-09-02T16:37:16 < mawk> but I was talking for myself also, in NL
2020-09-02T16:37:28 < mawk> we only eat boring sandwiches in the least amount of time possible
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2020-09-02T16:40:08 < karlp> I'm pretty sure there's a satw comic about iceland being the exception too
2020-09-02T17:02:22 < karlp> hrm, https://satwcomic.com/metal maybe.
2020-09-02T17:07:33 < jpa-> https://satwcomic.com/nordics-like-fish   this is what i imagine karlp and zyp eat every day
2020-09-02T17:10:27 < qyx> we also were going to restaurant every day
2020-09-02T17:10:31 < qyx> in the days I worked fulltime
2020-09-02T17:10:47 < qyx> but I know many who don't and bring their food in boxes
2020-09-02T17:16:16 < karlp> ok, different fonts on demo, works now.
2020-09-02T17:16:27 < karlp> except, now css...
2020-09-02T17:34:17 < qyx> https://paste.jvnv.net/view/TVdiX \o/
2020-09-02T17:34:17 < qyx> \o
2020-09-02T17:34:18 < qyx> o/
2020-09-02T17:37:33 < karlp> that doesn't really look like success?
2020-09-02T17:38:01 < qyx> it means the mcu has power, SWD works, USART works
2020-09-02T17:38:07 < qyx> thats 6 balls out of 256
2020-09-02T17:38:14 < qyx> I would call it success
2020-09-02T17:42:31 < specing> wut
2020-09-02T17:42:55 < specing> Laurenceb: get on my level, I got banned from gentoo-chat-exile
2020-09-02T17:44:20 < specing> well actually, did I? Idk, but somehow I ended in gentoo-chat-exile-exile
2020-09-02T17:46:37 < Steffanx> Lol whoa banned you Laurenceb ?
2020-09-02T17:46:43 < Steffanx> Who*
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2020-09-02T18:35:19 < Cracki> Laurenceb, use an encrypted connection
2020-09-02T18:35:46 < Cracki> duuude
2020-09-02T18:36:01 < Cracki> xchat/hexchat, just change the server options
2020-09-02T18:36:19 < Cracki> "use ssl for all the servers on this network"
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2020-09-02T18:37:08 < Cracki> you had an encrypted connection with webchat because webchat is elite
2020-09-02T18:37:53 < Cracki> https://www.smogon.com/irc/tutorials/xchat_newserver.png
2020-09-02T18:38:00 < Cracki> connecting, third checkbox
2020-09-02T18:39:12 < Cracki> R2COM, https://www.mirc.com/ssl.html
2020-09-02T18:39:46 < Cracki> eeeeeeeeeh
2020-09-02T18:40:39 < Cracki> ok then, your laziness wins. secure connection requirement lifted.
2020-09-02T18:51:07 < karlp> alright, print with "lp -d PT-9700PC qrcode_and_label.pdf" get label exactly like pdf
2020-09-02T18:51:20 < karlp> open pdf and choose print? get huge margins on both ends of the label
2020-09-02T18:54:23 < PaulFertser> karlp: open pdf with what viewer?
2020-09-02T18:55:18 < karlp> docuemnt viewer 3.36.7, evince I guess.
2020-09-02T18:55:33 < karlp> viewer shows no margins, page size matches reality, no zooming or scaling
2020-09-02T18:55:37 < karlp> jus.... somethign wrong :)
2020-09-02T18:55:54 < karlp> I only need to print from a job anyway, so thankfully that's the way that actually works :)
2020-09-02T18:56:04 < karlp> I just have to make the pdf look ok, and then not print it that way.
2020-09-02T18:59:00 < karlp> cups lp* commands are trash for consistenty though.
2020-09-02T18:59:01 < PaulFertser> 6 years ago it was opened and it's still there https://gitlab.gnome.org/GNOME/evince/-/issues/411
2020-09-02T18:59:12 < karlp> the printer might be -p or -d or somethign else entirely
2020-09-02T18:59:51 < karlp> this isn't acustom size though, it's a selected size from the drop downs.
2020-09-02T19:01:24 < karlp> https://bin.jvnv.net/file/V0QhB.png that 3.94" t the bottom is garbage.
2020-09-02T19:01:26 < PaulFertser> Probably related. Funny how many people are affected but nobody seems to be debugging.
2020-09-02T19:01:27 < karlp> that's what it prints
2020-09-02T19:01:50 < karlp> pdf properties says it' sonly "1.21 × 0.50 inch"
2020-09-02T19:02:02 < karlp> fuck you and your user is always wrong for not fixing the software
2020-09-02T19:02:10 < karlp> you know how fucking retarded labels are on linux alreayd?
2020-09-02T19:02:19 < karlp> do I need ppd files? or are they deprecated now? who knows!
2020-09-02T19:02:26 < karlp> test pages don't work, but printing works.
2020-09-02T19:02:30 < PaulFertser> Oh, ppd deprecated, how so?
2020-09-02T19:02:38 < karlp> where would one even _begin_ to debug this?!
2020-09-02T19:02:52 < karlp> if you think I'm looking at evince source you are _wildly_ mistaken.
2020-09-02T19:02:53 < PaulFertser> Regarding fixing bugs, idk, that's what I usually do when I need some software and it almost does the right thing...
2020-09-02T19:03:09 < PaulFertser> You found a good and fast workaround so I'm not blaming you.
2020-09-02T19:03:14 < karlp> I've filed three bugs already today....
2020-09-02T19:03:28 < karlp> and experience has shown me that filing bugs against gnome without being a gnome developer is futile.
2020-09-02T19:03:49 < PaulFertser> Probably so. Not sure I'm using anything much from the gnome project ever.
2020-09-02T19:04:06 < PaulFertser> evince allows to fill PDF forms though, that worked nicely for me when I needed it.
2020-09-02T19:05:02 < karlp> document properties on same file: https://bin.jvnv.net/file/49uwr.png
2020-09-02T19:05:25 < karlp> 12mm is closer to .47" as evince claims than 0.5 as the pdf claims, but *shrugs*
2020-09-02T19:07:18 < karlp> re ppd files: https://github.com/apple/cups/issues/5271
2020-09-02T19:07:28 < PaulFertser> Probably "TZ Tape" is not treated as a tape (that is, arbitrary length page) but instead some hardcoded constant (3.94 in) is used and hence the confusion.
2020-09-02T19:10:19  * karlp shrugs
2020-09-02T19:10:23 < karlp> still insane to be all in inches
2020-09-02T19:13:05 < PaulFertser> karlp: interesting, thanks
2020-09-02T19:18:57 < englishman> i go to the gym for lunch
2020-09-02T19:19:09 < englishman> so it needs to be more than 10min
2020-09-02T19:20:38 < mawk> why
2020-09-02T19:20:42 < mawk> are you buffing up or something
2020-09-02T19:20:44 < Steffanx> I go for a walk usually ~ 30 minutes
2020-09-02T19:20:49 < mawk> to grab them by the pussy ?
2020-09-02T19:20:52 < mawk> ah yes good
2020-09-02T19:20:55 < mawk> Steffanx knows the best
2020-09-02T19:21:02 < englishman> I did that when the gyms closed stefs
2020-09-02T19:21:21 < mawk> anyway sport is dangerous don't do that
2020-09-02T19:21:35 < englishman> heroin is dangerous too
2020-09-02T19:21:41 < mawk> yes
2020-09-02T19:21:47 < Steffanx> Enjoying the dutch flatness: http://imgur.com/a/TaaIYYy
2020-09-02T19:22:15 < Cracki> 6pm honey, time for your land flattening
2020-09-02T19:22:21 < mawk> beautiful
2020-09-02T19:22:34 < mawk> bomb-powered land flattening?
2020-09-02T19:22:43 < Cracki> I'd use a bicycle all the time if the land was that flat
2020-09-02T19:22:48 < englishman> Sea powered
2020-09-02T19:23:04 < Cracki> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vaalserberg#:~:text=The%20Vaalserberg%20is%20a%20hill,after%20which%20it%20is%20named).
2020-09-02T19:23:34 < Cracki> highest point
2020-09-02T19:23:43 < Steffanx> Yeah  :)
2020-09-02T19:24:14 < Cracki> 8.4% https://bicycledutch.wordpress.com/2019/05/22/whats-worse-dutch-winds-or-hills/#:~:text=The%20steepest%20part%20is%20the,a%20maximum%20incline%20of%208.4%25.
2020-09-02T19:24:20 < Cracki> 11.8% https://bicycledutch.wordpress.com/2012/10/04/cycling-in-the-dutch-mountains/#:~:text=The%20area%20I%20visited%20for,found%20a%20sign%20of%2010%25.
2020-09-02T19:24:32 < Steffanx> Nothern dutchland is this flat.. everywhere 
2020-09-02T19:24:43 < Cracki> I guess you won't run down a hillside after a cartwheel of cheese anytime soon
2020-09-02T19:25:04 < Cracki> s/cart//
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2020-09-02T19:25:09 < Steffanx> We have dikes.
2020-09-02T19:25:39 < Cracki> I saw people polevault over dikes. some didn't make it.
2020-09-02T19:25:46 < Cracki> or rather over the ditches.
2020-09-02T19:27:56 < aandrew> https://imgur.com/gallery/uaH6lhz
2020-09-02T19:28:20 < Steffanx> Thats the national sport of mawk's ancestors 
2020-09-02T19:29:26 < mawk> :(
2020-09-02T19:30:01 < Steffanx> Why :( mr mawk?
2020-09-02T19:32:44 < Cracki> har
2020-09-02T19:33:21 < Cracki> I have a rtx 2070 at work that looks like its pcb is bent, and it's drooping under its own weight
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2020-09-02T21:12:24 < R2COM> so i connected 4k monitor to some laptop with intel uhd 620 default graph adapter and i see only 29Hz @ 4k
2020-09-02T21:12:41 < R2COM> the usb-c connects laptop to its docking station and from there its DP to monitor
2020-09-02T21:12:50 < R2COM> i still think 29hz is limitation of graph adapter
2020-09-02T21:13:10 < R2COM> it can handle 4k but not at 60hz
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2020-09-02T21:20:21 < Cracki> 4k60 is ~12 gigabit/s
2020-09-02T21:20:58 < Cracki> 4k going only 30 hz isn't uncommon
2020-09-02T21:22:25 < Cracki> maybe blame the cabling
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2020-09-02T21:29:57 < R2COM> i think its graphics card
2020-09-02T21:30:06 < R2COM> whats with cablinb
2020-09-02T21:30:14 < R2COM> its just standard provided DP cabpe with monitpor
2020-09-02T21:32:24 < Cracki> intel says the 620 can do 4k60
2020-09-02T21:32:33 < Cracki> I'd blame the usb c
2020-09-02T21:32:49 < Cracki> maybe investigate the dock. they'd know if it's supposed to do 4k60 or not
2020-09-02T21:33:53 < Cracki> not sure what you have but this is interesting https://superuser.com/questions/1549341/4k-with-intel-uhd-graphics-620-and-thunderbolt-3-docking-station
2020-09-02T21:34:20 < Cracki> usb can do 5 gbit/s, 10, 20
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2020-09-02T21:38:23 < R2COM> connected from laptop directly to monitor now its 4k@59hz
2020-09-02T21:39:00 < R2COM> i guess it was def usbc bottleneck then (maybe that one didnt support 20gbps watever)
2020-09-02T21:39:28 < R2COM> fuck no wait
2020-09-02T21:41:50 < R2COM> no its a same shit
2020-09-02T21:42:08 < R2COM> (i was seeing wrong one, i was seeing laptops specs, those were 4k @59)
2020-09-02T21:42:29 < R2COM> but the external monitor still shows 29hz, even if i connect with HDMI cable from laptop bypassing the docking
2020-09-02T21:42:39 < R2COM> (and even if i turn down laptop monitor)
2020-09-02T21:42:51 < R2COM> intel is full of shit then i assume
2020-09-02T21:43:02 < Cracki> are you sure it's hdmi
2020-09-02T21:43:12 < Cracki> and what version does the cable claim
2020-09-02T21:43:33 < Cracki> it's gotta be hdmi 2.0 to support 4k60
2020-09-02T21:45:09 < R2COM> the cable is white and has print "high speed hdmi cable"
2020-09-02T21:45:13 < R2COM> will try another
2020-09-02T21:45:15 < Cracki> ok so it's china
2020-09-02T21:45:36 < Cracki> they're all "high speed" because they aren't getting their hands hacked off for saying that
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2020-09-02T21:48:35 < Cracki> at least it's hdmi 1.3/1.4 because earlier versions had even less bandwidth and couldn't do 4k30
2020-09-02T21:48:47 < R2COM> this is monitor i use https://www.lg.com/us/monitors/lg-27UL500-W-4k-uhd-led-monitor
2020-09-02T21:49:32 < Cracki> hdr 10, nice
2020-09-02T21:50:05 < R2COM> "All display connectors support AMD FreeSync up to 60Hz at 4K, as well as HDCP 2.2 and HDR."
2020-09-02T21:50:16 < R2COM> so i assume monitor is ok it can accept 4k@60 on DP or HDMI
2020-09-02T21:51:06 < Cracki> so would any cables that came with it
2020-09-02T21:52:21 < Cracki> BUT maybe your laptop's hdmi can't do it, only its DP?
2020-09-02T21:52:23 < R2COM> yes initially i used its original cabpe
2020-09-02T21:52:30 < Cracki> what laptop is it
2020-09-02T21:52:35 < R2COM> \lenovo thinkpad
2020-09-02T21:52:41 < Cracki> that narrows it down
2020-09-02T21:53:32 < R2COM> hmm trying to find DP there
2020-09-02T21:53:50 < bitmask> dirty boy
2020-09-02T21:54:11 < R2COM> it has only hdmi
2020-09-02T21:54:39 < Cracki> maybe usb-c with thunderbolt?
2020-09-02T21:54:54 < R2COM> what you mean maybe usbc?
2020-09-02T21:55:02 < R2COM> i bypassed usbc
2020-09-02T21:55:13 < R2COM> initially i connected its original usbc cable to its docking station
2020-09-02T21:55:13 < Cracki> what is "bypassed"
2020-09-02T21:55:31 < R2COM> bypassd= connected hdmi from laptop to monitor directly
2020-09-02T21:55:32 < Cracki> which one's usb c cable
2020-09-02T21:55:45 < Cracki> well which laptop is it, I'd like to look up what ports it has
2020-09-02T21:55:45 < R2COM> usb cable which came with all this shit and docking station
2020-09-02T22:18:43 < qyx> moved a bit forward with u-boot https://paste.jvnv.net/view/ZRN5O
2020-09-02T22:21:02 < Steffanx> more bugs.
2020-09-02T22:21:52 < qyx> also why does this print "x" only debug("%s: cmd:%#x mode:%d.%d.%d.%d addr:%#llx len:%#x\n",
2020-09-02T22:22:00 < qyx> looks like it doesn't understand the #
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2020-09-02T23:46:24 < qyx> dongmusics https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ponTbDDMYjw
2020-09-02T23:51:09 < upgrdman> anyone know of a chinese equivalent for digikey? i just want to check if certain parts that are easy/cheap in the US are also "popular" in cn
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2020-09-02T23:53:20 < qyx> lcsc.com?
2020-09-02T23:55:48 < Cracki> dongs might know local-only shops
2020-09-02T23:56:04 < Cracki> i.e. you have to read chinese
2020-09-02T23:58:44 < Steffanx> Shipping costs of lcsc is huge though.
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--- Day changed Thu Sep 03 2020
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2020-09-03T00:09:23 < upgrdman> ya i can google translate on my pc or phone. i just need to know of a web site
2020-09-03T00:09:42 < upgrdman> lcsc is a start, o
2020-09-03T00:09:44 < upgrdman> ok
2020-09-03T00:14:11 < qyx> I call int add_mtd_device(struct mtd_info *mtd)
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2020-09-03T00:14:20 < qyx> before the call, mtd.writesize is 1
2020-09-03T00:14:29 < qyx> inside the function, mtd->writesize is 0
2020-09-03T00:14:36 < qyx> what could be cause?
2020-09-03T00:14:43 < qyx> *the cause
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2020-09-03T00:21:51 < qyx> https://paste.jvnv.net/view/NdXMq
2020-09-03T00:22:01 < qyx> the fucking writesize changes between the two printfs
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2020-09-03T00:27:53 < karlp> sounds like trampled memory
2020-09-03T00:28:00 < karlp> work area sizes ok? if they need that?
2020-09-03T00:28:12 < karlp> kernel loading itself on top of your ram code?
2020-09-03T00:28:43 < qyx> thats few lines
2020-09-03T00:28:46 < Cracki> is that sf_mtd_info a union or contains a union?
2020-09-03T00:28:47 < qyx> no kernel yet
2020-09-03T00:28:52 < qyx> no union inside
2020-09-03T00:29:06 < Cracki> debugger, watch that memory location
2020-09-03T00:29:51 < Cracki> wait what, "inside the function"?
2020-09-03T00:29:54 < qyx> yes
2020-09-03T00:29:58 < Cracki> you say between the printfs something must happen
2020-09-03T00:30:05 < Cracki> between the printfs, there is no call to anything
2020-09-03T00:30:09 < qyx> yes
2020-09-03T00:30:19 < Cracki> so... before what call?
2020-09-03T00:30:26 < Cracki> ah, line 40
2020-09-03T00:30:59 < Cracki> how much ram do you have?
2020-09-03T00:31:19 < qyx> I narrowed it down to https://paste.jvnv.net/view/fATTK
2020-09-03T00:31:23 < qyx> this single line
2020-09-03T00:32:11 < Cracki> replace those printfs with asserts, less ram usage
2020-09-03T00:32:12 < qyx> ok wtf
2020-09-03T00:32:27 < Cracki> possibly prevents the printf from trashing that memory
2020-09-03T00:32:28 < qyx> it changes after first access
2020-09-03T00:32:32 < Cracki> heh
2020-09-03T00:32:33 < qyx> yeah wait
2020-09-03T00:33:35 < qyx> assert no worky :S
2020-09-03T00:34:18 < Cracki> meaning confirms the problem or doesn't?
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2020-09-03T00:39:48 < qyx> this triggers the second BUG https://paste.jvnv.net/view/eHMbw
2020-09-03T00:39:55 < qyx> printf still prints 1
2020-09-03T00:40:05 < qyx> so the value is corrupted somewhere inside printf
2020-09-03T00:40:11 < Cracki> how much ram
2020-09-03T00:40:20 < Cracki> how much used for static stuff, how much for stack
2020-09-03T00:40:23 < Cracki> at this point
2020-09-03T00:40:31 < qyx> hard questions
2020-09-03T00:40:33  * qyx checnikng
2020-09-03T00:40:44 < Cracki> half the answer: run, break at line, look at registers
2020-09-03T00:41:14 < Cracki> other half: uh, when you hit build, compiler should crap out numbers for memory usage, which includes program code and global variables
2020-09-03T00:41:22 < Steffanx> No data watch point on write of that memory location? Openocd can do that right?
2020-09-03T00:42:05 < qyx> not that easy
2020-09-03T00:42:14 < qyx> I hope it is not trying to use sdram for stack
2020-09-03T00:42:17 < qyx> because it is not populated
2020-09-03T00:42:47 < Steffanx> Wouldnt it crash very hard...?
2020-09-03T00:42:52 < qyx> probably
2020-09-03T00:43:12 < Cracki> do any other variables (or fields in that struct) come back 0 even though you set them to nonzero?
2020-09-03T00:43:25  * qyx gone to grab some food
2020-09-03T00:56:28 < Steffanx> *sleep. You meam 
2020-09-03T00:56:31 < Steffanx> Mean.
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2020-09-03T00:59:07 < karlp> heh, who knew that gdb would autoload scripts from the .debug_gdb_scripts segment of a .elf?
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2020-09-03T01:00:36 < qyx> ok my .bss is in the flash
2020-09-03T01:01:45 < qyx> why the hell
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2020-09-03T01:09:49  * karlp sneakily reaches for sed to process xml....
2020-09-03T01:09:58 < karlp> who's got time to relearn xslt?!
2020-09-03T01:12:04 < qyx> http://xillybus.com/media/comic-300px.jpg
2020-09-03T01:12:05 < qyx> lol
2020-09-03T01:14:34 < Cracki> was that a commercial
2020-09-03T01:14:48 < Cracki> it is http://www.xillybus.com/
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2020-09-03T01:21:22 < antto> karlp, tinyxml2
2020-09-03T01:21:37 < Cracki> pronounced "sillybus", silly like the comic
2020-09-03T01:24:48 < karlp> no. sed. :)
2020-09-03T01:24:53 < karlp> sed -i 's/testcase classname="/testcase classname="${TT}./g' $x/TEST-*
2020-09-03T01:24:55 < karlp> for x in tests/*; do TT=$(basename $x); sed -i "s/testcase classname=\"/testcase classname=\"${TT}./g" $x/TEST-*; done 
2020-09-03T01:25:01 < karlp> stupid paste buffers
2020-09-03T01:25:23 < karlp> takes it from this garbage, with all the tests overlapping: https://j4.beeroclock.net/job/karl-locm3-tests/28/testReport/
2020-09-03T01:25:44 < karlp> to this beautifulness: https://j4.beeroclock.net/job/just-the-tests/7/testReport/ with tests per device 
2020-09-03T01:26:19 < karlp> so, 30minutes to package up again for the main repo...?
2020-09-03T01:27:27 < antto> is sed senpai-certified?
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2020-09-03T01:54:43 < qyx> what should I change in this linker script to move .data/.bss to sram? https://github.com/u-boot/u-boot/blob/master/arch/arm/cpu/u-boot-spl.lds
2020-09-03T01:56:19 < karlp> seems odd for github source ld files to be busted?
2020-09-03T01:56:55 < qyx> it is not busted, it is just made for SPL residing in SRAM
2020-09-03T01:57:09 < qyx> ok, copied memory regions from libopencm3
2020-09-03T01:57:17 < qyx> and added >ram AT >rom to .data
2020-09-03T01:57:18 < qyx> lets see
2020-09-03T01:57:32 < antto> aww u theif
2020-09-03T01:57:53 < qyx> it generated 358MB file
2020-09-03T01:58:19 < karlp> oh, it was for whole thing in sram.
2020-09-03T01:58:23 < karlp> yeah, standard...
2020-09-03T02:00:13 < qyx> now how to get 44K bin again
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2020-09-03T03:43:16 < englishman> lol qyx wtf
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2020-09-03T09:37:43 < zyp> qyx, you're trying to initialize sections that are 358MB apart then
2020-09-03T09:38:19 < zyp> 385, I guess you mean
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2020-09-03T10:25:49 < qyx> yeah 385
2020-09-03T10:32:39 < qyx> apparently they did not even consider running directly from a flash
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2020-09-03T13:22:21 < c10ud_> am I drunk or I can't get TIM1 in an f7 do a 1Mhz with a simple write to bsrr
2020-09-03T13:24:34 < c10ud_> toggling a gpio in HAL_TIM_PeriodElapsedCallback() simply caps to 175khz
2020-09-03T13:24:41 < c10ud_> and core is 200mhz
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2020-09-03T13:34:45 < karlp> fucking css.
2020-09-03T13:35:08 < karlp> fuck aroudn with it in a browser till it looks ok, printy via this weasyprint thing, all smush up again
2020-09-03T13:35:11 < dongs> c10ud_: why the FUCK would you do that in a fucking interrupt
2020-09-03T13:35:23 < dongs> its a timer, use its hardware output
2020-09-03T13:35:36 < karlp> because pin togglign in sw is how we measure our dicsk in arduino land
2020-09-03T13:35:45 < c10ud_> exactly
2020-09-03T13:36:22 < c10ud_> it's just for testing tho
2020-09-03T13:36:50 < karlp> why not test with things that might be like what you'd do, instead of completely irrelevant things then?
2020-09-03T13:37:09 < jpa-> well, such a thing should easily run at 1MHz+
2020-09-03T13:37:25 < jpa-> so it can point out some problem with his code / irq config / clock frequency / whatever
2020-09-03T13:37:35 < c10ud_> duh, this is just some braindead timer register testing
2020-09-03T13:38:00 < c10ud_> like, i want freq x, i toggle my gpio manually..and tweak regs
2020-09-03T13:38:13 < c10ud_> since when this is an issue > 160khz?
2020-09-03T13:38:55 < c10ud_> maybe hal doing someshit behind my back..but regs look correct..
2020-09-03T13:40:27 < jpa-> IIRC F7 irq enter is 12 cycles, exit something like 14 cycles and you'll probably get ~7 cycles flash wait states on top of that, then if you are using some HAL callback instead of just using IRQ handler directly there is probably ~30 cycles of HAL overhead; should end up less than 100 cycles and run at ~2MHz
2020-09-03T13:41:07 < jpa-> so, when you set it to what you think is 100kHz, do you correctly get 100kHz?
2020-09-03T13:41:24 < c10ud_> yup
2020-09-03T13:45:18 < c10ud_> i.e. tim2 with both regs set to 99 yields 10khz freq (timer apb1 is 100M)
2020-09-03T13:45:51 < c10ud_> i will try to cut hal handling and see what happens
2020-09-03T13:46:19 < jpa-> yeah, just write to bsrr directly in TIM1_IRQHandler
2020-09-03T13:47:18 < jpa-> you can also check in disassembler what HAL_TIM_IRQHandler looks like
2020-09-03T13:48:08 < c10ud_> wow it really was hal fucking around
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2020-09-03T14:03:49 < Cracki> by how much tho
2020-09-03T14:06:01 < c10ud_> too much, capped at around 300khz, no hal yielded around 2M
2020-09-03T14:07:52 < jpa-> 2Mhz interrupt rate or 2Mhz squarewave (i.e. 4MHz interrupt rate)?
2020-09-03T14:15:23 < c10ud_> rate, but i still need to 
2020-09-03T14:15:44 < c10ud_> no, actually that's it
2020-09-03T14:31:33 < Cracki> 200e6 / 300e3 = 666 cycles period, that is a bit much
2020-09-03T14:31:43 < Cracki> does it actually run at 200 mhz
2020-09-03T14:32:03 < Cracki> what does the HAL stuff _do_, source code wise?
2020-09-03T14:32:22 < Cracki> besides call your callback and maybe a few other small operations
2020-09-03T14:32:59 < jpa-> https://github.com/STMicroelectronics/STM32CubeF7/blob/master/Drivers/STM32F7xx_HAL_Driver/Src/stm32f7xx_hal_tim.c#L3178   but i think c10ud_ probably has something else going on also
2020-09-03T14:33:19 < c10ud_> now i've removed everything
2020-09-03T14:33:47 < c10ud_> just clearing the update flag on the SR, incrementing someint and setting the bsrr of my gpio accordingly
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2020-09-03T14:34:29 < c10ud_> with prescaler and period = 9 i get 1Mhz on TIM2
2020-09-03T14:35:20 < c10ud_> the code simply starts the timer, then while(1)
2020-09-03T14:35:27 < Cracki> some of those branches call four callbacks. I wonder if that compiles to a call or a nop when those functions are left to their weak empty defaults
2020-09-03T14:35:52 < c10ud_> also this is with -O0 -g3
2020-09-03T14:36:04 < c10ud_> no cache etc.
2020-09-03T14:36:09 < Cracki> aha
2020-09-03T14:36:19 < karlp> joy. today, printing via lp causes the printer to detach from usb...
2020-09-03T14:36:27 < jpa-> not even the flash preload cache?
2020-09-03T14:36:39 < jpa-> kinda explains why your stuff is running so slow :)
2020-09-03T14:37:59 < c10ud_> ye, but before stripping hal stuff was unbearably slow
2020-09-03T14:38:04 < c10ud_> now it's ok for hacking a bit
2020-09-03T14:39:02 < zyp> Cracki, calling a weak symbol is always a call unless you have LTO
2020-09-03T14:39:47 < jpa-> so at 200MHz you'll have your flash configured for 6-9 wait states; if i understand correctly, without enabling the flash accelerator you'll get that much extra latency on every branch and every set of 4 instructions
2020-09-03T14:40:26 < zyp> jpa-, isn't that enabled by default though?
2020-09-03T14:40:58 < jpa-> zyp: not on the register level at least
2020-09-03T14:41:14 < jpa-> not sure if HAL might enable it automatically or not
2020-09-03T14:46:24 < Thorn> T - 60 min https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_j4xR7LMCGY
2020-09-03T14:58:37 < Cracki> thx zyp
2020-09-03T15:05:17 < Steffanx> antto: youve got mail!
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2020-09-03T15:51:19 < c10ud_> boy, instruction cache on F7 surely makes the difference.. went from a jittery almost-400khz freq to almost-nice 500khz with the very same code
2020-09-03T15:51:55 < c10ud_> at O0
2020-09-03T15:52:20 < c10ud_> the good ol' AVRs never suffered such issues :p
2020-09-03T16:40:30 < jpa-> now you can run stupid code even faster :)
2020-09-03T16:41:59 < c10ud_> you cannot imagine
2020-09-03T16:55:29 < Steffanx> Yes, instruction and data cache on F7 is nice.
2020-09-03T16:55:52 < jpa-> data cache is half-nice, half-evil
2020-09-03T16:56:10 < Steffanx> Dual mp3 decoding is suddenly pretty fast
2020-09-03T16:56:39 < Steffanx> -dual. Thats irrelevant 
2020-09-03T16:57:36 < Steffanx> Is data cache like ##stm32 jpa- m
2020-09-03T16:57:37 < Steffanx> ?
2020-09-03T16:58:19 < jpa-> hmm, not sure if F7 data cache knows how to troll
2020-09-03T16:58:43 < Steffanx> Try DMA. It will troll you badly
2020-09-03T17:00:53  * karlp sighs
2020-09-03T17:01:18 < karlp> creating a pdf/printable file from python seems to involve pyfpdf, which is gross and archaic and broken, or getting html+css to work.
2020-09-03T17:01:28 < karlp> so I'm back to the css salt mines again
2020-09-03T17:01:51  * karlp tables it up
2020-09-03T17:01:51 -!- MRX is now known as Polsaker
2020-09-03T17:02:23 < Steffanx> Create a word doc. Export to pdf
2020-09-03T17:02:45 < jpa-> yeah, i've done that by editing .rtf or .svg in python, and then using libreoffice or inkscape to convert it to pdf automatically
2020-09-03T17:06:05 < karlp> yeah, craetinga  pdf and editing it for every label seems like it _might_ work too, but seems like a hassle with fpdf at least
2020-09-03T17:06:58 < mawk> spin up headless chrome then inject a control-p command
2020-09-03T17:07:03 < mawk> super easy
2020-09-03T17:07:15 < mawk> why make simple when you can make complicated ?
2020-09-03T17:07:28 < mawk> https://www.leparisien.fr/resizer/JYuUSoNR45efyE2x82QNrpN3nTA=/932x582/cloudfront-eu-central-1.images.arcpublishing.com/leparisien/GZV7DIF47H27RTNQLRML7TNYKU.jpg
2020-09-03T17:07:42 < zyp> karlp, yeah, I went with html+css
2020-09-03T17:08:20 < zyp> for creating shipping labels
2020-09-03T17:08:41 < karlp> I had some html working, but apparently the flexbox implementation in weasyprint is... different? or *shrugs*
2020-09-03T17:08:55 < karlp> editing css is just so fucking random
2020-09-03T17:09:23 < zyp> idk about that, I just print from the browser
2020-09-03T17:09:56 < jpa-> you could also use pdflatex :)
2020-09-03T17:10:16 < zyp> got a button in the webstore to generate a list of shipping labels and just throw that right at the printer from the browser
2020-09-03T17:10:46 < karlp> this is printing from the manufacturing test bit.
2020-09-03T17:15:26 < PaulFertser> karlp: a probably odd idea but have you considered generating any PDF you like by whatever means, then using "pdftk" to unpack it and then just substituting something you need inside of it?
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2020-09-03T17:15:34 < PaulFertser> karlp: or do you need barcode etc in there?
2020-09-03T17:16:09 < karlp> I do, and yeah, there's things for regenerating that shit too.
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2020-09-03T17:16:28 < karlp> html+css is goign to be easier for anyone else to do later, just shitty for non-css me.
2020-09-03T17:30:35 < zyp> just make the html/css less fancy, it's not like you need to think about accessibility and it rendering correct on phones
2020-09-03T17:31:46 < karlp> indeed.
2020-09-03T17:31:53 < karlp> if only it was that simple :)
2020-09-03T17:32:14 < karlp> currently printing on 12mm tape "works" and printing on 36mm tape just prints me blank chunks
2020-09-03T17:32:19 < karlp> regardless of how it looks
2020-09-03T17:32:33 < karlp> I long ago gve up on having it how I wanted it, I'll take just getting most of it sort of ok.
2020-09-03T17:33:17 < zyp> uh
2020-09-03T17:33:26 < zyp> can you render a reasonable pdf?
2020-09-03T17:33:35 < karlp> sure
2020-09-03T17:33:51 < karlp> it's not what I'd like, but that's just hours of css
2020-09-03T17:33:52 < zyp> so what's the problem? it's not printing ok?
2020-09-03T17:34:07 < karlp> I'm still unhappy about the pdf, but yes.
2020-09-03T17:34:19 < karlp> now if I make a pdf for 12mm tape, (with less on it) it prints just fine.
2020-09-03T17:34:35 < karlp> if I make the bigger one, for 36mm tape, I print it, and I just get a blank label.
2020-09-03T17:35:36 < zyp> so problem is not making the pdf, but printing it?
2020-09-03T17:35:55 < karlp> well, both.
2020-09-03T17:36:07 < karlp> I only _just_ got to the bearably acceptable stage 
2020-09-03T17:36:08 < zyp> the latter sounds like the bigger issue
2020-09-03T17:38:00 < karlp> yep, round and round the merrygo round
2020-09-03T17:38:19 < karlp> this morning the 12mm tape didn't print either, just... didnt. unplugged a few times, and now works everyt ime.
2020-09-03T17:44:20 < karlp> ok, 18mm tape works. lets try 24 now
2020-09-03T17:44:35 < zyp> looked at my shit, most of it is to make the CN22 form: https://paste.jvnv.net/view/FpLFn https://paste.jvnv.net/view/XYhEX
2020-09-03T17:51:00 < karlp> different layout prints ok, so there's somehitng magic in some version that just... prints blank. hooray
2020-09-03T18:09:02 < karlp> I feel like the 36mm driver setting might be busted.
2020-09-03T18:14:01 < karlp> anything over 24mm just comes out white, yay
2020-09-03T18:14:56 < karlp> right, it's orientation busted
2020-09-03T18:15:12 < karlp> print 36mm high by < 36 long, no problem. printed sideways
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2020-09-03T21:02:05 < antto> Steffanx, if u do dis one moar tiem, imma /part
2020-09-03T21:02:44 < antto> that's soooo scary, isn't it
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2020-09-03T21:23:24 < Steffanx>  /join #avrs, antto
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2020-09-03T21:49:34 < mawk> Steffanx: use two //
2020-09-03T21:49:38 < mawk> /liek dis
2020-09-03T21:49:42 < mawk> cool no ?
2020-09-03T21:59:40 < qyx> /n
2020-09-03T21:59:41 < qyx> no
2020-09-03T21:59:55 < Steffanx> I dont care mawk
2020-09-03T21:59:58 < Steffanx> Lol
2020-09-03T22:00:05 < Steffanx> It works just as well 
2020-09-03T22:04:28 < Cracki> /test
2020-09-03T22:04:38 < Cracki> \/test
2020-09-03T22:04:59 < Steffanx>  /test
2020-09-03T22:05:04 < zyp> /cock
2020-09-03T22:06:01 < Cracki> /NI!!
2020-09-03T22:06:31 < qyx> should I continue with the bootloader saga?
2020-09-03T22:08:42 < Cracki> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4-iuyyL0Tos
2020-09-03T22:08:55 < Cracki> Louis Rossmann content. cue the reactions.
2020-09-03T22:13:39 < Steffanx> is this april fools or something?
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2020-09-03T23:45:09 < R2COM> lol those modern laptops with usbc is a joke concept.. so to get 60hz  4k i had to use usbc-to-DP cable, and it actually worked now
2020-09-03T23:45:16 < R2COM> so i have finally 4k @ 60hz
2020-09-03T23:45:23 < R2COM> however, laptops usbc port is concumed
2020-09-03T23:45:32 < R2COM> and its power adapter has usbc output lol
2020-09-03T23:45:57 < R2COM> and default deck supplied was not 60hz video capable usbc dock
2020-09-03T23:46:00 < upgrdman> can thunderbolt-usb-c do 4k120 or is it also limited to 4k60?
2020-09-03T23:46:07 < R2COM> dont know
2020-09-03T23:46:35 < upgrdman> im kinda butthurt that 4k120/4k144 monitors are still rate
2020-09-03T23:46:38 < upgrdman> rae*
2020-09-03T23:46:38 < R2COM> is there some sort of...i dont know... tri-way cable? which can "inject" power into usbc without intervening with video transmission
2020-09-03T23:46:40 < upgrdman> rare*
2020-09-03T23:46:55 < R2COM> say:  laptop<-------------\/------------------>DP-->Monitor
2020-09-03T23:47:04 < brdb> 4k? what do you need 2k for? best i can do is 360p
2020-09-03T23:47:04 < R2COM> and inbetween there is another power cable powering laptop
2020-09-03T23:47:52 < R2COM> or ill just use laptop from battery...screw it
2020-09-03T23:47:59 < R2COM> when its full its like >7hrs anyway
2020-09-03T23:48:01 < R2COM> then recharge
2020-09-03T23:48:29 < R2COM> interestnly...i thought for desktop/dev work i wouldnt feel difference between 30hz and 60hz @ 4k, but i actually do feel it
2020-09-03T23:48:40 < R2COM> (so its not just in gaming you gonna feel it)
2020-09-03T23:48:50 < R2COM> i even feel it when working with GUI etc
2020-09-03T23:49:29 < upgrdman> ya
2020-09-03T23:49:37 < upgrdman> 4k30 is fucking annoying as hell
2020-09-03T23:49:42 < R2COM> yes it is
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2020-09-03T23:49:52 < R2COM> it gives slight feeling that you working from some slow VM
2020-09-03T23:49:53 < upgrdman> i do that at work because my usb-c dock only has 4k30 hdmi :(
2020-09-03T23:50:01 < R2COM> well same thing for me
2020-09-03T23:50:02 < R2COM> but
2020-09-03T23:50:08 < R2COM> thats why i bought that cable
2020-09-03T23:50:26 < R2COM> https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B075V27G2R/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_asin_title_o00_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1
2020-09-03T23:50:29 < R2COM> here is what i bought
2020-09-03T23:50:32 < R2COM> now i have 4k @ 60
2020-09-03T23:50:42 < R2COM> but...fuckin hell...laptop cant be connected to power now
2020-09-03T23:50:45 < R2COM> since its usbc consumed
2020-09-03T23:50:59 < R2COM> motherfucking laptop manufacturers what was point of making AC adapter with usbc???
2020-09-03T23:51:02 < R2COM> like....why?
2020-09-03T23:51:05 < R2COM> why not just own jack
2020-09-03T23:52:08 < R2COM> would be cool if monitor had that usbc powering capability...
2020-09-03T23:52:18 < R2COM> acting like dock's power delivery method
2020-09-03T23:52:24 < R2COM> but its not the case
2020-09-03T23:52:25 < R2COM> anyway
2020-09-03T23:52:30 < R2COM> ill use laptop with batteries only
2020-09-03T23:52:31 < upgrdman> i prefer charging over usb-c, but laptops need >1 usb-c port
2020-09-03T23:52:42 < R2COM> yeah or that at least
2020-09-03T23:52:45 < R2COM> 1 usbc is idiotic
2020-09-03T23:52:54 < R2COM> it has 2 usb3 and 1 usbc
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2020-09-03T23:55:13 < R2COM> <upgrdman> i do that at work because my usb-c dock only has 4k30 hdmi :(
2020-09-03T23:55:31 < R2COM> if your laptop graphics card can do 4k @ 60 then just buy that cable and you can do it
2020-09-03T23:56:30 < upgrdman> R2COM, but i have the same problem you do. i need to charge over usb-c
2020-09-03T23:56:48 < upgrdman> well, i could charge from my surface dock connector, but fuck that shit... one cable is all i want to tolerate
--- Day changed Fri Sep 04 2020
2020-09-04T00:07:59 < R2COM> you know...im actually looking at my dock now
2020-09-04T00:08:05 < R2COM> and it according to specs can do 4k @ 60
2020-09-04T00:08:09 < R2COM> not sure why last time it didnt
2020-09-04T00:08:13 < R2COM> maybe will try it again too
2020-09-04T00:22:24 < bitmask> woot
2020-09-04T00:22:24 < bitmask> https://imgur.com/a/Q8aSFVm
2020-09-04T00:22:29 < bitmask> hidden lcd
2020-09-04T00:25:49 < R2COM> upgrdman so you also prefer to work now from battery only from laptop?
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2020-09-04T00:26:01 < upgrdman> no, i need ac power
2020-09-04T00:26:16 < upgrdman> thats why i use my 4k30 usbc dock :(
2020-09-04T00:26:31 < upgrdman> it has usb-pd passthrough
2020-09-04T00:26:59 < R2COM> my dock is 4k/60 but when connected i still cant select 60hz any idea why?
2020-09-04T00:27:06 < R2COM> im using all original cables
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2020-09-04T00:27:13 < upgrdman> many docks lie
2020-09-04T00:27:18 < R2COM> its thinkpad gen2 docking with displayport 1.4 capable
2020-09-04T00:27:26 < R2COM> you think lenovo lies?
2020-09-04T00:27:34 < upgrdman> i bought one on amazon, advertised as 4k60... but asic in it is rated for 4k30 :)
2020-09-04T00:27:34 < R2COM> its written there specifically its 4k 60 capable
2020-09-04T00:28:08 < upgrdman> dunno
2020-09-04T00:28:19 < upgrdman> maybe your usb-c cable doesn't have all the required wires
2020-09-04T00:28:40 < upgrdman> supposedly that's a common problem
2020-09-04T00:29:51 < R2COM> already ending up spending $50 for work related shit
2020-09-04T00:29:57 < R2COM> of personal money
2020-09-04T00:31:59 < R2COM> will get this now:
2020-09-04T00:32:00 < R2COM> https://www.amazon.com/dp/B087ZQ4S6L/ref=sspa_dk_detail_1?psc=1&pd_rd_i=B087ZQ4S6L&pd_rd_w=eIoMD&pf_rd_p=48d372c1-f7e1-4b8b-9d02-4bd86f5158c5&pd_rd_wg=T3EgZ&pf_rd_r=DBHM0K2WXM4TYTH904MY&pd_rd_r=7a3c4e6c-d06d-4414-9c91-61d34708d587&spLa=ZW5jcnlwdGVkUXVhbGlmaWVyPUE0VVpLNk9QMDMzWDAmZW5jcnlwdGVkSWQ9QTEwMTcwOTMxU0k5VDlVOUFRTUomZW5jcnlwdGVkQWRJZD1BMDE1NDI2N0RFTFpIWTYwVkJJUyZ3aWRnZXROYW1lPXNwX2RldG
2020-09-04T00:32:00 < R2COM> FpbCZhY3Rpb249Y2xpY2tSZWRpcmVjdCZkb05vdExvZ0NsaWNrPXRydWU=
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2020-09-04T00:44:36 < R2COM> oh wait a second
2020-09-04T00:44:45 < R2COM> i managed to pull datasheet of default supplied usbc cable
2020-09-04T00:44:49 < R2COM> it says 5gbps
2020-09-04T00:44:56 < R2COM> can 5gbps do 4k @ 60?
2020-09-04T00:46:04 < Cracki> 2k/FHD is 1920*1080. 4K is 2x2=4 times that. 24 bits per pixel. so 1920*1080 * 4 * 24 * 60 (hz) = ...
2020-09-04T00:46:13 < R2COM> apparently not
2020-09-04T00:46:14 < Cracki> 12 gigabit/s
2020-09-04T00:46:21 < R2COM> so thats the proiblem
2020-09-04T00:46:30 < R2COM> fucking lenovo tards
2020-09-04T00:46:39 < Cracki> times 5/4 for the modulation if you want "raw" data rate
2020-09-04T00:46:42 < R2COM> you are supplying and selling 4k 60hz capable dock
2020-09-04T00:46:48 < R2COM> and in default kit put 5 gbps cable
2020-09-04T00:46:52 < R2COM> arent they douchebags
2020-09-04T00:48:56 < Cracki> I think 20 Gbit/s USB is still very new. when USB C does video signals, it's doing display port through the pins instead.
2020-09-04T00:49:08 < Cracki> and DP does those data rates.
2020-09-04T00:49:54 < Cracki> it _is_ a bit cheap to be putting a cable in the kit that's rated for less than what the device can do
2020-09-04T00:51:13 < Cracki> hm is that displayport or is that thunderbolt, or is thunderbolt just a superset of displayport and usb... eh idc
2020-09-04T00:54:54 < Cracki> ok so TB3 uses USB-C and does everything because we're intel and we are decadent
2020-09-04T00:56:03 < R2COM> i wonder if it is OK to use 20gbps cable on usb 3.1 ?
2020-09-04T00:56:08 < Cracki> sure
2020-09-04T00:56:12 < Steffanx> Is this dock doing hdmi out or.. is it just usb c to your dock and then usb to your screen?
2020-09-04T00:56:14 < R2COM> ok
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2020-09-04T00:58:37 < Steffanx> Nevermind i recall you said hmdi worked fine, yesterday 
2020-09-04T01:00:27 < Cracki> >Alt Mode is a functional extension of USB-C which enables the USB connection to carry non-USB signals. Alt Mode(s) are optional capabilities that are unique to the USB-C connector or port that allow technologies, like DisplayPort and Thunderbolt 3, to be transmitted.
2020-09-04T01:03:00 < Cracki> starting to make sense https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/USB-C#Alternate_Mode_partner_specifications
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2020-09-04T01:25:10 < jadew> man... tablets are so sci-fi
2020-09-04T01:26:43 < jadew> it's the thing that got nerds wet when they thought about it, in the past
2020-09-04T01:26:58 < R2COM> im using ipad pro
2020-09-04T01:27:04 < R2COM> for all my tech sketches, manuals etc
2020-09-04T01:27:39 < R2COM> so technically one can use usbc for anything right?
2020-09-04T01:28:00 < R2COM> if someone has some special custom protocol and fpga to implement it and its 20gbps he can use usbc?
2020-09-04T01:28:15 < R2COM> and just use usbc cables i guess
2020-09-04T01:29:27 < upgrdman> iirc the fastest usb3 chip for fpgas is the ftdi 6xx series, which is like 3gbps... so unless you implement usb3 on the fpga, good luck doing 20gbps
2020-09-04T01:36:37 < Cracki> what do the usb3 chips speak that are used in computers?
2020-09-04T01:37:21 < Cracki> nvm, they are likely not just usb 3 chips part of something else
2020-09-04T01:38:04 < karlp> pcie, duh
2020-09-04T01:38:11 < R2COM> oh man
2020-09-04T01:38:14 < R2COM> i have 2 usbcs
2020-09-04T01:38:22 < R2COM> its just 1 is fuckin hidden and i missed in manual
2020-09-04T01:38:22 < R2COM> so
2020-09-04T01:38:31 < qyx> pcie, meh
2020-09-04T01:38:33 < R2COM> ill just do usbc-to-display port @ 4k 60hz
2020-09-04T01:38:46 < R2COM> and use one extra usbc AC for powering laptop
2020-09-04T01:38:48 < R2COM> problem solved
2020-09-04T01:38:52 < R2COM> now i dont need that fucking dock
2020-09-04T01:39:01 < R2COM> (just need extra usb hub for mice and headset)
2020-09-04T01:39:14 < upgrdman> R2COM, where was the second usb-c "hidden" lol
2020-09-04T01:39:29 < R2COM> its like
2020-09-04T01:39:31 < R2COM> how to say
2020-09-04T01:39:35 < R2COM> it is super open
2020-09-04T01:39:42 < R2COM> and looks like some weird connection
2020-09-04T01:39:53 < upgrdman> lolwut? pic
2020-09-04T01:39:58 < R2COM> and i wouldnt think at first look that its usbc
2020-09-04T01:41:34 < R2COM> https://i.imgur.com/ZivXDIE.jpg
2020-09-04T01:41:36 < R2COM> #2
2020-09-04T01:41:39 < R2COM> is thunderbolt
2020-09-04T01:41:43 < R2COM> and #1 is usbc AC
2020-09-04T01:41:58 < R2COM> so i can use #2 for usbc-to-Display port @ 4k 60
2020-09-04T01:42:05 < R2COM> and still use #1 for AC plug 
2020-09-04T01:42:21 < upgrdman> #1 is a usb-a port?
2020-09-04T01:42:29 < R2COM> wtf is usb a?
2020-09-04T01:42:31 < R2COM> its usb c
2020-09-04T01:42:41 < upgrdman> why is #1 hole bigger than #2 hole
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2020-09-04T01:43:08 < R2COM> thats what threw me off at beginning
2020-09-04T01:43:15 < R2COM> and i erroneously thought its just 1 usbc
2020-09-04T01:43:16 < R2COM> so
2020-09-04T01:43:18 < R2COM> 1. USB-C™ connector (USB 3.1 Gen 1)
2020-09-04T01:43:25 < R2COM> 2. Thunderbolt™ 3 connector (USB-C)
2020-09-04T01:43:30 < R2COM> this is designation for pic above
2020-09-04T01:43:44 < R2COM> #2 used to drive monitor now at 4k60
2020-09-04T01:43:53 < R2COM> and #1 used with laptops wall adapter with usbc output
2020-09-04T01:51:06 < upgrdman> #4 and #7 are usb-a?
2020-09-04T01:54:32 < Cracki> 5 looks like usb a, super speed
2020-09-04T01:54:46 < Cracki> might be a t490s or x390, found the picture in this file: https://dustinweb.azureedge.net/media/460279/thinkpad-t490s.pdf
2020-09-04T01:54:54 < R2COM> 4. USB 3.1 connector Gen 1
2020-09-04T01:55:02 < R2COM> 7. MicroSD card slot
2020-09-04T01:55:16 < Cracki> 3 ethernet, 2+3 = docking station
2020-09-04T01:55:33 < Cracki> oh, ok, your 7 conflicts with what I see here, wrong file then
2020-09-04T01:55:49 < R2COM> anyway its working now
2020-09-04T01:55:58 < R2COM> cancelled my usbc-usbc cable
2020-09-04T01:56:11 < R2COM> what i ordered yersterday cable of usbc-to-DP is good
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2020-09-04T01:59:31 < Cracki> t490/t590/... match
2020-09-04T02:00:53 < R2COM> yeah i think thats what it is
2020-09-04T02:01:20 < Cracki> t590 even has a numpad
2020-09-04T02:05:21 < R2COM> who needs numpad nowadays
2020-09-04T02:05:39 < R2COM> look what i bought recently
2020-09-04T02:05:41 < R2COM> https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B01FXF7HFC/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_asin_title_o03_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1
2020-09-04T02:05:45 < R2COM> its a coolest ass keyboard
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2020-09-04T02:13:11 < Cracki> very gay I like it
2020-09-04T02:13:37 < Cracki> "Zoomer-88"
2020-09-04T02:21:07 < R2COM> lol
2020-09-04T02:35:12 < R2COM> no kidding but its an awesome keyboard
2020-09-04T02:35:14 < R2COM> super clicky
2020-09-04T02:35:23 < R2COM> very loud
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2020-09-04T02:43:12 < R2COM> i also use G513 keyboard from logitech
2020-09-04T03:01:02 < qyx> https://ntnuopen.ntnu.no/ntnu-xmlui/bitstream/handle/11250/2613108/no.ntnu%3Ainspera%3A2326853.pdf?sequence=1&isAllowed=y
2020-09-04T03:01:28 < qyx> it looks like ZED-F9P from u-blox is similarly capable as a surveying Leica GNSS
2020-09-04T03:01:37 < qyx> at least in static conditions
2020-09-04T03:03:33 < Cracki> 1-3 cm is nice
2020-09-04T03:03:38 < Cracki> lol @ antenna
2020-09-04T03:04:27 < Cracki> cute signatures
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2020-09-04T03:07:27 < qyx> there are millimeter-level inaccuracies between the two
2020-09-04T03:07:39 < qyx> in 3, 6 and 24h observations
2020-09-04T03:08:10 < qyx> yeah the antenna is kawaii
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2020-09-04T03:09:27 < Cracki> so they talk about *some* people requiring millimeter positioning
2020-09-04T03:09:35 < Cracki> who are those and wat do they do to get it
2020-09-04T03:09:59 < qyx> surveying
2020-09-04T03:10:14 < qyx> people buy $$$ instruments to get it
2020-09-04T03:10:18 < Cracki> says there surveying might be content with centimeter precision
2020-09-04T03:10:27 < qyx> it depends
2020-09-04T03:10:35 < qyx> today I was faced with +-2mm
2020-09-04T03:11:04 < Cracki> what needs to be located down to 2mm accuracy
2020-09-04T03:11:22 < qyx> monitoring of a stabilized hill for example
2020-09-04T03:11:36 < Cracki> ah, shit that moves faster than a glacier
2020-09-04T03:12:53 < qyx> or temporary stabilization on construction sites to know if is safe or it moves
2020-09-04T03:13:00 < qyx> *if it is
2020-09-04T03:13:05 < Cracki> ic
2020-09-04T03:30:49 < jadew> if any of you feels like reading this draft - is it good enough to send to a customer (mentioning it's a work in progress)? https://cojotech.com/media/appnotes/When%20to%20use%20an%20RF%20Power%20Limiter.pdf
2020-09-04T03:32:59 < Cracki> one of the most important specifications, even if it's one, it's one of many specs
2020-09-04T03:33:53 < Cracki> this is a power level... that can permanently damage/damage permanently(?) the front-end.
2020-09-04T03:34:35 < jadew> Cracki, yeah, it's a little redundant, but in some situations you can exceed it
2020-09-04T03:34:46 < Cracki> in some cases [example 1] [example 2] :D
2020-09-04T03:35:30 < Cracki> I mean active/passive, the sentence starts with power level being the subject but ends with the front-end being the subject
2020-09-04T03:35:39 < Cracki> and object being the other respectively
2020-09-04T03:36:32 < Cracki> "can get damaged" is a bit colloquial, prefer "can be damaged"
2020-09-04T03:36:38 < jadew> ah, I see what you mean
2020-09-04T03:36:51 < jadew> thanks, I'll edit that
2020-09-04T03:37:08 < Cracki> also commas, I think english speakers make fewer
2020-09-04T03:37:36 < Cracki> it's a problem I notice a lot from germans writing english because they literally apply german comma rules to english sentences
2020-09-04T03:37:38 < jadew> I think so too, but I don't understand their reasoning, so I'm sticking to mine
2020-09-04T03:37:43 < Cracki> :P
2020-09-04T03:37:49 < jadew> :)
2020-09-04T03:37:53 < Cracki> mostly they have no rules and it's pattern matching and synthesis
2020-09-04T03:38:18 < Cracki> hm well "rules" that describe (bottom-up), while germans have rules that prescribe (top-down)
2020-09-04T03:39:08 < Cracki> "3 solutions", how do you feel about writing small numbers as words
2020-09-04T03:39:37 < jadew> I sometimes do, I know the rule...
2020-09-04T03:39:45 < Cracki> overall I find the text quite understandable and insightful
2020-09-04T03:40:12 < jadew> thanks
2020-09-04T03:41:12 < Cracki> attenuator, I'll assume they lower everything by a fixed number of dB, so if you have transients on the input that are bad enough, they _still_ could hit design limits?
2020-09-04T03:41:28 < jadew> yep
2020-09-04T03:41:52 < jadew> but you could size them so it never does
2020-09-04T03:42:02 < Cracki> "as low as [-the-] 2.5 dBm"
2020-09-04T03:42:35 < jadew> the 2.5 dBm [we spoke of earlier]
2020-09-04T03:43:07 < Cracki> ic
2020-09-04T03:43:44 < Cracki> Limiters like... that I'd say needs 0 or 2 commas but 1 is like an unmatched parenthesis
2020-09-04T03:43:53 < Cracki> "also a good" >_>
2020-09-04T03:44:02 < jadew> cought that, already fixed :)
2020-09-04T03:44:06 < jadew> *caught
2020-09-04T03:44:57 < jadew> Cracki, no, it's limiters like that one
2020-09-04T03:45:05 < Cracki> may I interest you in an oxford comma for the "amplifier, limiter, and attenuator" list of things
2020-09-04T03:45:08 < jadew> because it belongs to a particular class of limiters
2020-09-04T03:45:35 < Cracki> > Limiters like the LMT-030-2, provide both functions.
2020-09-04T03:46:00 < Cracki> I'd just strike the comma
2020-09-04T03:46:09 < Cracki> but eh
2020-09-04T03:46:16 < jadew> ah, right
2020-09-04T03:46:19 < jadew> makes sense
2020-09-04T03:47:29 < jadew> I don't use comma before "and" if it's part of the enumeration
2020-09-04T03:48:10 < jadew> the comma is a placeholder for the and
2020-09-04T03:49:07 < Cracki> ok so no oxford comma
2020-09-04T03:52:05 < Cracki> I know it's not everyone's cup of tea: my shtick is to express everything in diagrams. i'd give block diagrams an EE would recognize, with gain blocks, transfer function blocks etc
2020-09-04T03:52:37 < jadew> that was my initial idea too
2020-09-04T03:52:42 < Cracki> might not even make sense here. I'm not familiar enough with that stuff
2020-09-04T03:52:49 < jadew> it should have been "When to use a Limiter, a Limiting Amplifier or an Attenuator"
2020-09-04T03:53:07 < jadew> but I just don't have enough time to write an in-depth document on the topic
2020-09-04T03:53:14 < Cracki> :P
2020-09-04T03:53:30 < Cracki> it's a leaflet
2020-09-04T03:54:17 < jadew> yeah
2020-09-04T03:55:20 < jadew> before I came up with the original title I just wanted a bunch of graphs explaining what happens (how it affects noise figure, compared to an attenuator for example)
2020-09-04T03:55:38 < jadew> but when I sat down, I realized I'm not a graphic designer
2020-09-04T03:55:40 < jadew> :D
2020-09-04T03:56:25 < Cracki> phone picture of a napkin sketch
2020-09-04T03:56:28 < jadew> which is what you would need to become if you wanted a nice infographic
2020-09-04T03:56:32 < Cracki> eh nah
2020-09-04T03:57:16 < Cracki> a little methlab or pyplot script and praying to the PRNG for numbers
2020-09-04T03:58:49 < jadew> right, but drawings really add clarity
2020-09-04T03:58:58 < Cracki> if you feel like it, really, do napkin sketches
2020-09-04T03:59:26 < Cracki> methlab script implying it poops out plots that show transfer curve, simulated noise, etc
2020-09-04T04:03:49 < Cracki> omfg the long muskrat perpetrates cultural appropriation by wearing carpenter's clothes https://twitter.com/elonmusk/status/1301647642846547971
2020-09-04T04:04:58 < jadew> this sjw crap is slowly creeping in Romania too
2020-09-04T04:05:21 < jadew> I don't think it can survive here tho
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2020-09-04T04:17:23 < jadew> thanks Cracki, I appreciate it
2020-09-04T04:17:35 < Cracki> yw
2020-09-04T04:18:38 < jadew> hmm, my wife made pretzels, and I told her they suck
2020-09-04T04:18:53 < qyx> :D
2020-09-04T04:19:00 < jadew> now that I'm hungry, I changed my mind
2020-09-04T04:19:02 < qyx> did she appreciate it?
2020-09-04T04:20:07 < jadew> I hope so, I never complain, so she never believes me when I say it's good
2020-09-04T04:22:16 < jadew> I thought it would be a good occasion to show her I'm honest
2020-09-04T04:24:27 < jadew> now that I enjoy them, I can eat them all, and tomorrow she will see that I also love and appreciate her, because I didn't let them go to waste even if they sucked
2020-09-04T04:25:12 < qyx> I would check if her reasoning is the same first
2020-09-04T04:25:36 < jadew> if it isn't, I can point it out :P
2020-09-04T04:36:09 < Cracki> she wakes up, sees the pretzels gone, goes to look in the bin
2020-09-04T04:36:20 < jadew> lol
2020-09-04T04:43:12 < Cracki> "pro audio gear" with an RTC that's off by ~100 ppm
2020-09-04T04:43:47 < Cracki> but only the rtc. it's sampling/recording dead on.
2020-09-04T04:58:22 < qyx> meh 4am
2020-09-04T05:03:52 < englishman> hay laurent
2020-09-04T05:04:01 < englishman> how many stainless steel rockets did you fly today
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2020-09-04T10:03:33 < Steffanx> Im sure shell be angry because you ate them all, jadew 
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2020-09-04T15:27:53 < jadew> Steffanx, I messed up. I didn't eat them all and today when I woke up and wanted more, I discovered she made the remaining ones into croutons :/
2020-09-04T15:28:15 < Steffanx> Haha
2020-09-04T15:36:28 < qyx> are they better being croutons?
2020-09-04T15:37:04 < jadew> don't know, I'll find out when I eat some soup
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2020-09-04T15:50:40 < Steffanx> Sugary croutons...
2020-09-04T15:50:57 < jadew> ah, they don't have sugar
2020-09-04T15:51:20 < jadew> we use very little sugar
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2020-09-04T15:52:41 < Steffanx> Explains why you didnt like em. Pretzels come with sugar.
2020-09-04T15:53:21 < jadew> yeah, it's possible
2020-09-04T16:19:12 < Steffanx> Heh, at least lcsc's packaging is much more economical. Not 1 package/component like arrow
2020-09-04T16:25:10 < englishman> i counteroffered at 25% above my current salary
2020-09-04T16:25:27 < englishman> yesterday was a good day but I was reminded that it's just a job
2020-09-04T16:25:33 < englishman> so fuck it
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2020-09-04T16:32:38 < qyx> so I have a kernel.
2020-09-04T16:33:29 < qyx> it has 1.4MB
2020-09-04T16:33:38 < qyx> I guess it doesn't even support multitasking
2020-09-04T16:34:16 < qyx> they must have thrown away even the scheduler itself
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2020-09-04T16:41:22 < Steffanx> Hah. Good job englishman :)
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2020-09-04T17:40:06 < qyx> oh omg http://openocd.zylin.com/#/c/4321/9/tcl/board/stm32f746g-disco.cfg
2020-09-04T17:40:23 < qyx> why do people do that
2020-09-04T17:41:19 < zyp> why not?
2020-09-04T17:41:37 < benishor> that being what exactly?
2020-09-04T17:41:50 < qyx> fucking numbers
2020-09-04T17:42:18 < benishor> because it's easy to take them from the docs?
2020-09-04T17:43:28 < zyp> because it's a hassle to make a lot of definitions for a one off?
2020-09-04T17:44:09 < zyp> the comments makes it pretty obvious what it's doing so it looks readable and fine to me
2020-09-04T17:44:38 < qyx> I need to modify them and I feel it would take at least 2 minutes
2020-09-04T17:44:50 < zyp> what do you need to modify?
2020-09-04T17:45:02 < qyx> so I am raging, it is ~10min now
2020-09-04T17:45:13 < qyx> for a custom board
2020-09-04T17:45:22 < zyp> different pins?
2020-09-04T17:45:30 < qyx> unfortunately
2020-09-04T17:46:25 < karlp> when in doubt, add more tcl
2020-09-04T17:46:27 < zyp> should be straight forward
2020-09-04T17:47:11 < karlp> why does it need two different AFs? 9 & 10?
2020-09-04T17:47:29 < zyp> presumably because some functions are mapped on AF9 and some are mapped on AF10
2020-09-04T17:47:39 < karlp> I'ðm thinking in the context of "qspi init"
2020-09-04T17:47:51 < zyp> yes
2020-09-04T17:48:56 < zyp> https://www.st.com/resource/en/datasheet/stm32f745ie.pdf <- AF table starts at page 76
2020-09-04T17:49:00 < qyx> yes, they are on different AFs
2020-09-04T17:49:06 < zyp> there's QUADSPI stuff both on AF9 and AF10
2020-09-04T17:49:28 < karlp> yuck
2020-09-04T17:49:32 < karlp> thanks for frucking nothing st
2020-09-04T17:49:58 < zyp> not a big deal, could be worse
2020-09-04T17:50:00 < zyp> much worse
2020-09-04T17:50:05 < karlp> I guess they're trying to keep AF numbers consistent across families, andcouldn't just use the unused 14 on that part.
2020-09-04T17:50:09 < zyp> just look at lpc43xx function table
2020-09-04T17:50:30 < Steffanx> Dont look at lpc. Ever.
2020-09-04T17:55:13 < qyx> this guy says it works https://forums.pimoroni.com/t/accessing-external-flash-from-openocd/12558
2020-09-04T17:55:45 < karlp> SQPI is good fr google
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2020-09-04T18:20:58 < jadew> https://youtu.be/iOWFXqT5MZ4?t=901
2020-09-04T18:21:20 < bitmask> ugh, redownloading my movie collection in 4k... I'm up to C
2020-09-04T18:39:56 < qyx> kill me, I am dumb
2020-09-04T18:40:00 < qyx> what does mmw 0x40020400 0x00002020 0x00001010 mean
2020-09-04T18:40:09 < qyx> write two consecutive 32bits at 0x40020400?
2020-09-04T18:40:34 < qyx> mww [phys] addr word [count]
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2020-09-04T18:44:34 < karlp> mmw is masked write, vs write word or something
2020-09-04T18:44:43 < karlp> mmw is not the same as mww
2020-09-04T18:45:01 < karlp> /\//\/\// moar slanties
2020-09-04T18:45:48 < qyx> wait what
2020-09-04T18:45:52 < qyx> dyslexy much
2020-09-04T18:46:02 < qyx> of course mmw != mww
2020-09-04T18:46:46 < Cracki> jadew, https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCLt4d8cACHzrVvAz9gtaARA
2020-09-04T18:47:59 < qyx> now it makes sense
2020-09-04T19:00:29 < qyx> https://paste.jvnv.net/view/GTQdI
2020-09-04T19:00:33 < qyx> such success
2020-09-04T19:00:38  * qyx dances
2020-09-04T19:02:05 < qyx> now move the linux XIP image to 0x90000000
2020-09-04T19:03:13  * karlp cheers
2020-09-04T19:03:35 < qyx> thank you for the patch
2020-09-04T19:04:34 < karlp> you do all the hardwork...
2020-09-04T19:05:43 < karlp> I _like_ taht my testing catches the errors properly.
2020-09-04T19:05:50 < karlp> I just wish it didn't have errors to catch....
2020-09-04T19:14:01 < qyx> wrote 1938100 bytes from file xipImage to flash bank 3 at offset 0x00000000 in 20.131336s (94.016 KiB/s)
2020-09-04T19:14:09 < qyx> except that it doesn't want to erase
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2020-09-04T20:07:57 < R2COM> https://nysa.readthedocs.io/en/latest/getting_started/getting_started_cores.html
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2020-09-04T20:08:14 < R2COM> so there some shit suite for fpga dev and one of the things they already seem to use is scons
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2020-09-04T20:23:54 < kakinull> zyp: how are your digital hydraulix projects going?
2020-09-04T20:51:17 < Steffanx> Welcome kakinull. Hows farming?
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2020-09-04T20:51:42 < qyx> I am curious if theres anyone who has used qspi
2020-09-04T20:52:40 < aandrew> lots of people have
2020-09-04T20:53:04 < qyx> I mean, here, on stm32
2020-09-04T20:56:58 < qyx> mass_erase works, program works but I cannot get memory mapped read working
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2020-09-04T21:44:24 < kakinull> Steff: insane
2020-09-04T21:44:32 < kakinull> work every day
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2020-09-04T21:52:28 < Steffanx> Fixd your can bus yet, mr kakinull?
2020-09-04T21:52:50 < kakinull> it was the canbus terminator
2020-09-04T21:53:05 < kakinull> dongle that looked like automotive relay in canbus line
2020-09-04T21:53:29 < kakinull> I think I mentioned it here too
2020-09-04T21:53:40 < Steffanx> like i read everything :P
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2020-09-04T21:57:14 < kakinull> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FgN-l6Tj02g musics ofc
2020-09-04T21:59:50 < Steffanx> meh.
2020-09-04T22:00:16 < kakinull> how old steff papa?
2020-09-04T22:00:22 < Steffanx> put that far into your part of the venndiagram
2020-09-04T22:00:37 < kakinull> so that I can get you targetted musics
2020-09-04T22:00:46 < kakinull> are you millenial?
2020-09-04T22:00:50 < Steffanx> yeah
2020-09-04T22:01:05 < Steffanx> im not even that much older than you i think. i forgot how young you are
2020-09-04T22:01:21 < kakinull> I'm very old
2020-09-04T22:01:30 < kakinull> 30
2020-09-04T22:01:49 < kakinull> I came here when I was like 23
2020-09-04T22:02:10 < Steffanx> oh, then you are just as young lol.
2020-09-04T22:03:20 < Steffanx> i dont think im really into the average millenial musics mr kakinull
2020-09-04T22:03:35 < kakinull> I know
2020-09-04T22:05:15 < Steffanx> :)
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2020-09-04T22:33:37 < qyx> ok, qspi in mem mapped mode works, the kernel is started
2020-09-04T22:33:42 < qyx> it hardfaults.
2020-09-04T22:36:25 < zyp> congrats
2020-09-04T22:36:48 < zyp> remind me what you're trying to achieve again
2020-09-04T22:40:13 < qyx> boot linux on this thing https://bin.jvnv.net/file/h1sPC.JPG
2020-09-04T22:40:16 < qyx> meh dust
2020-09-04T22:40:51 < Steffanx> How did you solder you bga? 
2020-09-04T22:40:56 < qyx> hah!
2020-09-04T22:41:03 < qyx> hotair
2020-09-04T22:41:21 < Steffanx> Fancy
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2020-09-04T23:05:49 < qyx> sdram apparently works somehow, no hardfault anymore
2020-09-04T23:06:02 < qyx> I am still missing dtb
2020-09-04T23:06:15 < qyx> lets look
2020-09-04T23:07:19 < qyx> the thing started to heat a bit
2020-09-04T23:07:53 < qyx> refresh config looks good, it retains whatever I write inside
2020-09-04T23:08:43 < qyx> which means I didn't even mess up NBL0-3
2020-09-04T23:19:53 < zyp> fun stuff
2020-09-04T23:20:08 < zyp> still not sure why you went with f7 instead of mp1
2020-09-04T23:22:39 < zyp> need to get back to designing so I can finish the shit I was working on
2020-09-04T23:22:51 < zyp> been too busy dicking around with rocks in the garden lately
2020-09-04T23:23:54 < Steffanx> hows that adventure going?
2020-09-04T23:25:01 < zyp> not much progress, no new photos lately
2020-09-04T23:25:22 < zyp> https://bin.jvnv.net/file/CUPFt.jpg <- today I moved away the pile of broken rocks next to the hole
2020-09-04T23:25:47 < zyp> and then I've chipped off a few more pieces, but it's going too slow
2020-09-04T23:26:51 < zyp> the wedges I have are pretty small, they don't go deep enough into the rock
2020-09-04T23:27:43 < zyp> works well for breaking a loose rock in half, but not so good for breaking off a good chunk from the whole mountain
2020-09-04T23:28:49 < zyp> so I'm still thinking about renting a compressor and a pneumatic drill
2020-09-04T23:29:25 < zyp> just not a fan of the cost and logistics involved
2020-09-04T23:30:11 < Steffanx> when i see things like that and hear about the effort im glad i live in flatland.
2020-09-04T23:30:39 < zyp> would have preferred to outright buy one, use it and then sell it once I'm done with it
2020-09-04T23:30:51 < zyp> but of course that costs like $fuckyou
2020-09-04T23:31:06 < Steffanx> Where stuff is just peat, clay, sand and other semi-easy movable stuff.
2020-09-04T23:32:39 < Steffanx> Heh, "sell" it. I know my self and im pretty sure i would end up not even selling it. And just "forget"  about what it cost.
2020-09-04T23:32:44 < zyp> there's a company offering a complete pack that looks nice; hydraulic drill, hydraulic wedge and hydraulic power unit
2020-09-04T23:33:01 < zyp> only costs like 11k EUR
2020-09-04T23:33:05 < Steffanx> ah oops
2020-09-04T23:33:12 < Steffanx> no, i would not forget about THAT :P
2020-09-04T23:34:15 < zyp> https://www.finn.no/bap/webstore/ad.html?finnkode=183441419 looks nice though
2020-09-04T23:40:37 < qyx> quality rocks
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--- Day changed Sat Sep 05 2020
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2020-09-05T00:10:41 < Cracki> china rocks would yield more easily
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2020-09-05T00:22:48 < qyx> kernel execute in place has one major drawback
2020-09-05T00:23:00 < qyx> it is not possible to update the kernel while running
2020-09-05T00:26:13 < zyp> not different from every other xip setup
2020-09-05T00:26:46 < zyp> you could have a process that locks out the scheduler, overwrites the kernel and resets
2020-09-05T00:29:41 < englishman> zyp: can you drill holes in rock and use that non explosive splitting stuff
2020-09-05T00:29:59 < zyp> yeah?
2020-09-05T00:30:08 < englishman> KILROX
2020-09-05T00:30:11 < englishman> that's awesome
2020-09-05T00:30:18 < englishman> that's exactly what you'll be doing
2020-09-05T00:30:29 < zyp> yeah, great name
2020-09-05T00:30:45 < zyp> would have been nice
2020-09-05T00:34:26 < englishman> have you got a professional opinion
2020-09-05T00:34:42 < zyp> that's no fun, need to yolo it
2020-09-05T00:34:50 < englishman> sometimes it really pays to hire a pro
2020-09-05T00:35:08 < englishman> I thought I was good at landscaping until I paid a pro to do this little job
2020-09-05T00:35:19 < englishman> it was like 1/10th the time and perfectly done
2020-09-05T00:35:49 < englishman> what's your plan for when the rocks are out?
2020-09-05T00:36:07 < zyp> continue what I started last year
2020-09-05T00:37:32 < zyp> https://bin.jvnv.net/file/DmQIG.jpg <- this shit
2020-09-05T00:37:36 < qyx> https://paste.jvnv.net/view/zP5LT
2020-09-05T00:37:43 < zyp> another 11-12 meters or so
2020-09-05T00:37:47 < qyx> any idea why it hardfaults at pc: 0x9001e824
2020-09-05T00:39:12 < qyx> and why did you put XPS under concrete blocks
2020-09-05T00:39:55 < kakinull> zyp: tennis balls?
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2020-09-05T01:09:25 < Cracki> dude just ask around what it'd cost to get made. professional companies might take care of that in a day or half a day
2020-09-05T01:09:50 < Cracki> they'd come with big equipment and just cut through it or whatever
2020-09-05T01:10:15 < Cracki> looks somewhat fractured already, just huge unwieldy pieces
2020-09-05T01:14:06 < qyx> ok it hardfaults at different locations
2020-09-05T01:14:14 < qyx> probably the sdram is not that okish
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2020-09-05T01:54:40 < qyx> I have one bit stuck high, sometimes
2020-09-05T01:55:36  * qyx grabbing hotair
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2020-09-05T02:42:51 < qyx> omg the thing boots
2020-09-05T02:45:20 < qyx> https://paste.jvnv.net/view/hd8mT
2020-09-05T02:51:05 < qyx> but lol, it consumes 80mA@3V3
2020-09-05T02:51:14 < qyx> which is ~comparable to sama5d27
2020-09-05T02:51:39 < qyx> wait, no
2020-09-05T02:51:44 < qyx> I have to measure
2020-09-05T02:52:20 < qyx> I remember sama5d27 was about 600mW, onion omega2s about 800mW
2020-09-05T02:52:25 < qyx> this is only 250mW
2020-09-05T02:52:49 < qyx> I need to cure that unhandled exception first
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2020-09-05T03:56:23 < qyx> another problem with XIP is that I cannot use half of the flash for RW storage
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2020-09-05T08:15:27 < machinehum> Pissed of someone on the arch linux channel
2020-09-05T08:15:30 < machinehum> Good for me...
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2020-09-05T09:59:33 < zyp> kakinull, yeah, I don't want anybody getting hurt by the rebar sticking up if they fall on it
2020-09-05T10:00:40 < zyp> qyx, xps is to prevent frost damage
2020-09-05T10:01:02 < zyp> probably not something you have to consider where you live :p
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2020-09-05T11:44:16 < qyx> so it is on the sides only, not under the concrete?
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2020-09-05T12:07:15 < zyp> https://bin.jvnv.net/file/IC58J.jpg
2020-09-05T12:08:06 < qyx> wait wat, is it floating
2020-09-05T12:09:18 < qyx> we have a concrete base under the bricks, steel reinforced
2020-09-05T12:09:24 < qyx> how is the damned brick called
2020-09-05T12:09:32 < qyx> form brick, shaper brick or what
2020-09-05T12:09:52 < qyx> concrete form block?
2020-09-05T12:09:58 < zyp> this kind?
2020-09-05T12:10:07 < zyp> dunno what the english term would be
2020-09-05T12:10:58 < qyx> ie. we dig to a nonfreezing depth, about 60cm here, make a reinforced concrete base
2020-09-05T12:11:22 < qyx> and then build with those concrete blocks on it
2020-09-05T12:13:29 < zyp> I could have made a concrete base, but a concrete base for concrete blocks seems a bit redundant
2020-09-05T12:14:44 < zyp> my stackup is a sheet in the bottom to keep sand from mixing in, stone and a drainage pipe that'll drain water, xps to keep frost from penetrating below, and then I have a nice flat surface so I just stack them right up on the xps
2020-09-05T12:15:33 < zyp> and then after pouring concrete, more stones in front of and behind the wall
2020-09-05T12:16:44 < qyx> and what did you do witht he gravel? did you compress it somehow?
2020-09-05T12:17:22 < zyp> yeah, with a plate compactor
2020-09-05T12:17:34 < qyx> I would fear the whole thing tilts
2020-09-05T12:19:17 < qyx> offtopic, I hit an interesting bug
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2020-09-05T12:20:06 < zyp> the whole point of replacing everything around the wall with crushed gravel is to lead water away, so frost expansion won't push it up or out and make it tilt
2020-09-05T12:20:25 < qyx> https://www.linuxquestions.org/questions/linux-kernel-70/stm32f429i-disc1-with-embedded-linux-crashed-4175640695/
2020-09-05T12:21:11 < zyp> huh, handler six
2020-09-05T12:21:16 < zyp> which one was that?
2020-09-05T12:21:43 < zyp> ah, UsageFault
2020-09-05T12:24:16 < qyx> https://bugs.busybox.net/show_bug.cgi?id=11746
2020-09-05T12:24:17 < qyx> and this
2020-09-05T12:24:46 < qyx> I tried 5.7 kernel, it freezes even before earlyprintk
2020-09-05T12:25:01 < qyx> so I am downgrading buildroot to 2019.2 or so and binutils to 2.28 to see if it works
2020-09-05T12:25:53 < zyp> still looks like running linux on cortex-m is more hassle than it's worth
2020-09-05T12:28:16 < qyx> if I manage to get <100mW with a running system, it is worth it
2020-09-05T12:29:08 < qyx> and without ddr routing
2020-09-05T12:29:40 < qyx> I am quite happy the BGA soldering went good
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2020-09-05T13:21:35 < Steffanx> The joy of building lunix, where downgrading  tools magically solves issues
2020-09-05T13:29:42 < PaulFertser> It's not magic. Regressions happen in all kinds of software. Ask dongs about his Altium ;)
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2020-09-05T13:40:10 < qyx> the same problem even with bintuils 2.28 https://paste.jvnv.net/view/Iml66
2020-09-05T13:40:49 < Steffanx> Haha i know but open sores must be more perfect PaulFertser ;)
2020-09-05T13:43:29 < zyp> how about debugging this the ordinary way?
2020-09-05T13:43:55 < zyp> i.e. look at SCB_CFSR, figure out what kind of usagefault this is, then figure out where it was caused
2020-09-05T13:44:14 < PaulFertser> qyx: apparently sh starts running the init script and fails later. Have you considered trying to change the shebang to have "-x" at the end or using "set +x" (iirc) as the first line
2020-09-05T13:45:19 < PaulFertser> qyx: "set -x" of course, not +
2020-09-05T13:46:41 < qyx> yes it is a runtime error probably related to this http://lists.busybox.net/pipermail/buildroot/2018-May/222388.html
2020-09-05T13:46:53 < PaulFertser> qyx: try set -x please
2020-09-05T13:48:48 < qyx> wait, I need to find it first
2020-09-05T13:49:40 < qyx> it is a busybox: BFLT executable - version 4 ram
2020-09-05T13:50:38 < qyx> hm, how does the thing know it is running from XIP flash?
2020-09-05T13:50:53 < PaulFertser> qyx: looks like a shell script. It runs /sbin/swapon at some point. And some other steps but we can't yet see what it runs and where exactly it fails.
2020-09-05T13:51:43 < qyx> no, linuxrc is directly a link to busybox
2020-09-05T13:52:12 < qyx> /sbin/init too
2020-09-05T13:53:03 < PaulFertser> qyx: who is trying to run /sbin/swapon then? and why is it Comm: sh that was running when the error happened? 
2020-09-05T13:53:20 < PaulFertser> qyx: probably your init checked /etc/inittab and started running the init script from there?
2020-09-05T13:54:23 < qyx> true, the swapon thing is suspicious
2020-09-05T13:55:12 < PaulFertser> qyx: I think grepping for swapon in your rootfs /etc will give the answer
2020-09-05T13:55:32 < qyx> yes it is in the inittab
2020-09-05T13:55:56 < PaulFertser> And any shell script can have tracing enabled so you see which step fails
2020-09-05T13:59:36 < qyx> I removed the swapon and confirmed it disappeared from the output
2020-09-05T13:59:44 < qyx> there are a couple of other things
2020-09-05T14:03:46 < PaulFertser> qyx: why do not you want to add set -x there at the beginning?
2020-09-05T14:03:55 < PaulFertser> To see how things are executed and which one fails?
2020-09-05T14:04:27 < qyx> but where? there is not a single shell script
2020-09-05T14:04:35 < qyx> wait what
2020-09-05T14:04:35 < PaulFertser> qyx: to all of them :)
2020-09-05T14:05:49 < qyx> I don't understand
2020-09-05T14:05:56 < qyx> I have nowhere to write set -x to
2020-09-05T14:06:05 < qyx> all calls from inittab are binaries
2020-09-05T14:06:20 < qyx> I would like to
2020-09-05T14:07:52 < qyx> I added echo after each line
2020-09-05T14:08:19 < qyx> it fails at ::sysinit:/etc/init.d/rcS
2020-09-05T14:08:27 < qyx> so now I have a chance to use the -x
2020-09-05T14:09:54 < PaulFertser> qyx: oh, so inittab had something to executi before rcS, I didn't expect that, sorry
2020-09-05T14:10:37 < PaulFertser> qyx: so probably it's busybox ash failing right away then.
2020-09-05T14:14:18 < qyx> + [ ! -f /etc/init.d/S20urandom ]
2020-09-05T14:14:23 < qyx> thats the only thing
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2020-09-05T14:15:47 < qyx> but whatever it does it should not fail with usage fault
2020-09-05T14:18:34 < PaulFertser> qyx: huh, so it just checks if some file is present and then halts.
2020-09-05T14:18:55 < PaulFertser> qyx: I wonder what happens if you just start sh instead of rcS, will you be able to type any commands in that case.
2020-09-05T14:20:51 < qyx> Iam going to try this adr patch https://github.com/fdu/STM32F429I-disco_Buildroot/issues/1#issuecomment-503469030
2020-09-05T14:22:05 < PaulFertser> qyx: the symptoms look different though
2020-09-05T14:22:34 < qyx> how so, thats exactly the issue
2020-09-05T14:22:49 < qyx> (__invalid_entry+0x4b/0x4c)
2020-09-05T14:25:49 < PaulFertser> ok, sorry then
2020-09-05T14:26:36 < qyx> interesting
2020-09-05T14:27:09 < qyx> at least I think
2020-09-05T14:29:11 < qyx> PaulFertser: btw I can confirm http://openocd.zylin.com/#/c/4321/ working
2020-09-05T14:34:46 < qyx> haha yeah https://paste.jvnv.net/view/cY6Mc
2020-09-05T14:39:16 < karlp> 4.11?
2020-09-05T14:44:44 < karlp> qyx: what's with the big courtyard silk on the ram here: https://bin.jvnv.net/file/h1sPC.JPG ?
2020-09-05T14:45:55 < qyx> there are apparently two sizes, I bought the smaller one
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2020-09-05T15:22:46  * antto saw that stdc14
2020-09-05T15:23:33 < antto> crystal from SR Passives?
2020-09-05T15:23:36 < antto> tme.eu?
2020-09-05T15:25:54 < Steffanx> Who did your pcbs qyx?
2020-09-05T15:27:12 < Thorn> I've got a fuckton of these phone line transformers, are they useful for anything?
2020-09-05T15:27:13 < Thorn> https://www.bourns.com/docs/product-datasheets/smlp5001.pdf
2020-09-05T16:03:57 < qyx> Steffanx: jlcpcb
2020-09-05T16:05:09 < qyx> looks like the problem is thumb2 mode itself
2020-09-05T16:05:39 < qyx> I can still run qnx or vxworks on it
2020-09-05T16:05:54 -!- Steffanx [~steffanx@unaffiliated/steffanx] has quit [Quit: Whop whop]
2020-09-05T16:07:13 < qyx> or zephyr
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2020-09-05T17:42:20 < qyx> it looks like I simply cannot have a reasonable fork and thus I cannot have a reasonable forking shell
2020-09-05T17:42:27 < qyx> fuck nommu linux
2020-09-05T17:42:34 < qyx> I should have used stm32mp1
2020-09-05T17:42:49 < Steffanx> heh
2020-09-05T17:44:27 < karlp> the days of nommu linux are in decades past boyo.
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2020-09-05T18:12:09  * qyx is going to kikecad DDR
2020-09-05T18:12:17 < dongs> nice
2020-09-05T18:12:19 < dongs> liveblog it
2020-09-05T18:12:42 < qyx> there was enough liveblogging the last 2 days
2020-09-05T18:12:42 < dongs> my DDR3 altidumb worked on first try
2020-09-05T18:12:46 < karlp> is current baord SDR?
2020-09-05T18:13:01 < dongs> i was actualyl surprised it powered up and everything worked
2020-09-05T18:13:03 < qyx> yes, PC133 SDRAM 64MB, F750, 32MB QSPI flash
2020-09-05T18:13:31 < karlp> this was all just to have less power than a sam5a /onion module right?
2020-09-05T18:14:11 < qyx> yes, I am trying to find something to run linux with less than ~100mW
2020-09-05T18:14:19 < qyx> f1c100s is the closest
2020-09-05T18:14:36 < qyx> it had about 50mA at 3V3
2020-09-05T18:14:51 < qyx> but fukit, no proper peripherals
2020-09-05T18:14:53 < qyx> no docs, etc.
2020-09-05T18:37:51 < antto> kicad ftw
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2020-09-05T20:06:52 < Steffanx> Got mail antto?
2020-09-05T20:09:26 < antto> guess again >:)
2020-09-05T20:13:14 < Steffanx> idk, i unsubscribed from the mailing list
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2020-09-05T20:34:58 < antto> ur a liar
2020-09-05T20:38:26 < qyx> dongs: whats exactly on your board
2020-09-05T20:38:30 < qyx> you said some allwhinner
2020-09-05T20:43:22 < Steffanx> no, im not mr antto
2020-09-05T20:50:22 < qyx> also, no series terminating resistors on ddr3?
2020-09-05T20:54:40 < englishman> dongs: I'm looking at this fpga-ddr2 project from 10 years ago, the lengths are all over the fucking place, no problems.
2020-09-05T20:55:06 < englishman> length matching is a jewish-australian conspiracy to sell altium licenses
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2020-09-05T21:34:37 < antto> aww
2020-09-05T21:36:22 < zyp> qyx, what are you gonna do once you can run linux?
2020-09-05T21:36:40 < zyp> also, if it's about power, can't you just clock it down?
2020-09-05T21:39:44 < qyx> the requirement is to make it sufficiently easy to run a custom software on the daq controller
2020-09-05T21:40:33 < qyx> there are basically two options, micropython with a rtos (hence I am investigating zephyr) or a posix-like system with python and/or others
2020-09-05T21:40:59 < qyx> micropython is becoming standard and usable
2020-09-05T21:41:07 < qyx> and embedded linux too thanks to RPi
2020-09-05T21:41:18 < qyx> actually, the easiest would be to put a RPi CM inside
2020-09-05T21:42:47 < qyx> in both cases, it should have a unbrickable bootloader usably by a basic fucking user (tm) on all common platforms
2020-09-05T21:43:08 < qyx> ie. usb cdc-ether with a webserver or mass storage or whatever
2020-09-05T21:43:15 < Steffanx> no lua?
2020-09-05T21:43:24 < qyx> who the hell knows lua
2020-09-05T21:43:36 < Steffanx> who cares
2020-09-05T21:43:42 < Steffanx> its sufficiently easy
2020-09-05T21:48:52 < zyp> hmm, I need to play more with this RK3399 som
2020-09-05T21:49:15 < zyp> I've booted it once, came with android preinstalled
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2020-09-06T02:39:58 < Steffanx> Can you deliver 2 pizza please Laurenceb ?
2020-09-06T02:41:07 < Steffanx> Meeh
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2020-09-06T03:13:58 < mawk> why
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2020-09-06T03:20:28 < qyx> the balloon thing?
2020-09-06T03:29:55 < Cracki> you know who has nukes anyway. they are brazen enough to expect no retaliation from anyone so why don't they use htem
2020-09-06T03:31:35 < Cracki> project manhattan didn't do it for shits and giggles?
2020-09-06T03:39:10 < qyx> fuk, 1.5cm hail
2020-09-06T03:50:00 < Cracki> when the hail triumphs over your roof
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2020-09-06T05:15:00 < dongs> so is slackware the only lunix remaining without systemdick
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2020-09-06T05:41:36 < Cracki> I've heard of devuan, alpine, void
2020-09-06T05:43:35 < Cracki> there's even a derivative of arch
2020-09-06T05:44:53 < Cracki> maybe take a look at openbdsm
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2020-09-06T06:04:05 < Cracki> :D https://nosystemd.org/
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2020-09-06T19:28:08 < PaulFertser> So I did brussels sprouts a la BrainDamage again. It is really nice indeed.
2020-09-06T19:28:40 < Steffanx> where is BrainDamage btw?
2020-09-06T19:29:29 < Steffanx> ping timeout on 23th of august, not seen since
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2020-09-06T20:17:05 < R2COM> https://www.amazon.com/ESP8266-ESP-01S-Control-Wireless-Automation/dp/B08FGQTTRC/ref=sr_1_11_sspa?dchild=1&keywords=ac+socket+relay+wifi&qid=1599412543&sr=8-11-spons&psc=1&spLa=ZW5jcnlwdGVkUXVhbGlmaWVyPUFGSTFRNDNBQzJUTFImZW5jcnlwdGVkSWQ9QTEwMzYzMTMyMUc3TFBKVFNIVEJDJmVuY3J5cHRlZEFkSWQ9QTA0ODQ3ODMzUldVTDI5V0dSMFJSJndpZGdldE5hbWU9c3BfbXRmJmFjdGlvbj1jbGlja1JlZGlyZWN0JmRvTm90TG9nQ2xpY2s9dHJ1ZQ==
2020-09-06T20:17:14 < R2COM> how the fuck DIY shit like that gets sold on amazon
2020-09-06T20:17:22 < R2COM> so its not bound by regulations etc
2020-09-06T20:17:30 < R2COM> i dont think its UL certified or anything
2020-09-06T20:17:49 < R2COM> so if shit sets someones house on fire would they....sue amazon or
2020-09-06T20:26:07 < Cracki> amazon has chinese sellers now
2020-09-06T20:26:18 < Cracki> amazon doesn't have to comply with any of that
2020-09-06T20:26:26 < Cracki> they aren't actually "selling" this, the sellers do
2020-09-06T20:32:55 < Steffanx> Yet they handle  all customer service and product returns. yay
2020-09-06T20:33:20 < R2COM> amazon's stock price is a joke, its a company which costs way more than it "produces"
2020-09-06T20:33:37 < R2COM> same shit is with tesla now, they barely make any money, but their stocks boosted to 4x lol
2020-09-06T20:35:16 < R2COM> i dont think elon musk is as lefty as he seems
2020-09-06T20:36:23 < R2COM> marxist liberal progressives even making early lefty-like billionaires slowly leaving their party, we already see billionaires leaving NY and elon musk also tries to have tesla plant in TX or AZ 
2020-09-06T20:38:19 < R2COM> nah, not gonna happen, lefties will fail (as usual) and end up eating their own shit
2020-09-06T20:39:53 < Cracki> make caches of things you'll need
2020-09-06T20:39:57 < Cracki> make more caches.
2020-09-06T20:40:32 < Cracki> they'll definitely try to meddle with the election
2020-09-06T20:41:37 < R2COM> in order to conduct war, one needs tactically savvy boots on the ground...but all left party has is bunch of BLM shits barely knowing how to handle guns, with that "manpower" the "war" will end very quickly in favor of pro 2A dudes
2020-09-06T20:41:44 < R2COM> so stop drawing apocalyptic scenarios
2020-09-06T20:41:49 < R2COM> none of that will even go that far
2020-09-06T20:42:09 < R2COM> how do you envision chinas military stepping into US continent?
2020-09-06T20:42:20 < R2COM> strata relax...
2020-09-06T20:44:17 < R2COM> its a wet dream maybe of BLM, but that wont happen
2020-09-06T20:44:48 < Cracki> DOOM AND GLOOM!
2020-09-06T20:45:13 < Cracki> he's just trying to agitate people so they do something glowy
2020-09-06T20:45:31 < Cracki> prepare to do unspeakable things to those who want you dead
2020-09-06T20:45:52 < Cracki> they will not be dissuaded. you have to handle each and every one of them individually.
2020-09-06T20:46:48 < Cracki> if you want to trigger _those_, paint a wholesome picture with blonde women with blond kids in huwheat fields
2020-09-06T20:46:51 < R2COM> im going to write some c++ code now, which will enslave people
2020-09-06T20:46:56 < R2COM> it will run on m0
2020-09-06T20:47:26 < Cracki> do it on a PIC, they'll commit harakiri from the shame of getting bested by a PIC
2020-09-06T20:47:41 < R2COM> but PIC is not bad i mean right?
2020-09-06T20:47:49 < Cracki> neither is m0
2020-09-06T20:47:58 < R2COM> but isnt arm basically taking over
2020-09-06T20:48:00 < Cracki> if you want "bad", use esp1488
2020-09-06T20:48:21 < R2COM> recently there was some event... someone acquired arm or something
2020-09-06T20:48:22 < Cracki> or draw a pinwheel of friendship on a propeller IC
2020-09-06T20:48:55 < R2COM> https://www.hpcwire.com/2020/08/03/nvidia-said-to-be-close-on-arm-deal/#:~:text=Softbank%20Group%20Corp.%2C%20which%20launched,centerpiece%20of%20its%20technology%20investments.
2020-09-06T20:48:59 < R2COM> look here bro
2020-09-06T20:49:09 < R2COM> so ARM will belong to Nvidia?
2020-09-06T20:49:32 < Cracki> https://i.pinimg.com/originals/30/23/75/302375e0bff48568664054c058e46393.jpg
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2020-09-06T20:52:23 < upgrdman> anyone here stress-testing udp on a PC? i can send (and received) slightly more than 200,000 udp packets per second. cpu is NOT pegged, so im guessing the limiting factor is the network stack? or maybe the library im using?
2020-09-06T20:53:03 < upgrdman> 200kpsp is fine, just not sure if my code is the limiting factor or not.
2020-09-06T20:54:47 < Cracki> is one core pegged, or one process jumping around between cores?
2020-09-06T20:55:13 < Cracki> how large are the packets, does size * number come close to pipe's throughput
2020-09-06T20:55:50 < Cracki> if 200k * 1500 bytes is ~2.4 Gbit/s, for a napkin calculation
2020-09-06T20:58:52 < upgrdman> packets are small... only 11 byte payload each :)
2020-09-06T20:59:23 < upgrdman> it looks like no core is >40% usage
2020-09-06T20:59:35 < upgrdman> so guessing the network stack is my limit factor.
2020-09-06T20:59:41 < upgrdman> but not sure why
2020-09-06T21:00:10 < specing> cache misses?
2020-09-06T21:00:17 < upgrdman> maybe
2020-09-06T21:00:43 < Cracki> be aware that processes can jump between cores. interrupt handling can do that too
2020-09-06T21:00:58 < upgrdman> ya
2020-09-06T21:01:01 < Cracki> so it _may_ be busy by one core equivalent, but spread
2020-09-06T21:01:18 < Cracki> maybe benchmark the time it takes for a syscall
2020-09-06T21:01:21 < Cracki> in general
2020-09-06T21:01:59 < Cracki> I'd expect a syscall per packet, possibly multiple packets per syscall, or maybe no syscalls at all if this is user space due to some magic
2020-09-06T21:02:01 < upgrdman> k
2020-09-06T21:02:24 < Cracki> get your hands on some performance counters
2020-09-06T21:02:42 < Cracki> general cpu counters, stuff from the kernel, w/e
2020-09-06T21:02:56 < upgrdman> ya, i'll poke through PerfMon
2020-09-06T21:03:08 < Cracki> maybe check if the NIC has all kinds of offloading enabled, because it it doesn't, stuff would be done cpu-side (checksums come to mind)
2020-09-06T21:03:42 < effractur> upgrdman: waht are you using?
2020-09-06T21:03:50 < upgrdman> effractur, java
2020-09-06T21:04:00 < effractur> i mean as a network stack / OS
2020-09-06T21:04:04 < effractur> and what it sthe link speed?
2020-09-06T21:04:26 < upgrdman> win10, just tx/rx'ing to localhost
2020-09-06T21:04:35 < Cracki> 200k appears reasonable https://blog.cloudflare.com/how-to-receive-a-million-packets/
2020-09-06T21:04:40 < upgrdman> stress testing (and improving) my TelemetryViewer program
2020-09-06T21:04:47 < Cracki> oh loopback no nic involved? that should go faster
2020-09-06T21:04:59 < effractur> if your going torugh loopback your skipping a large part of the stack
2020-09-06T21:05:04 < effractur> you just moving buffers around then
2020-09-06T21:05:10 < upgrdman> ya i hope so
2020-09-06T21:06:58 < Cracki> some claims of 2 Mpps https://superuser.com/questions/922729/is-it-possible-to-process-millions-of-datagrams-per-second-with-windows
2020-09-06T21:07:21 < Cracki> perhaps whip up simple c code for sanity check vs. java
2020-09-06T21:07:26 < effractur> i don't know the windows stack
2020-09-06T21:07:31 < effractur> but is is probaly not that fast
2020-09-06T21:07:42 < Cracki> that'd at least tell you which side to spend time on
2020-09-06T21:08:14 < effractur> but your bottle neck is probaly your kernel network stack
2020-09-06T21:08:16 < effractur> not the client side
2020-09-06T21:08:53 < upgrdman> hmm
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2020-09-06T21:23:18 < Cracki> I can get 50 kpps with python already
2020-09-06T21:23:23 < Cracki> let's try some C
2020-09-06T21:28:30 < effractur> go would probaly be easier to get a higher troughput
2020-09-06T21:32:58 < Cracki> go may be less code than C but go doesn't do anything differently
2020-09-06T21:39:20 < R2COM> no no... do it in c++
2020-09-06T21:39:21 < R2COM> :P
2020-09-06T21:55:03 < Cracki> ok... ~80 kpps on my crappy machine with a simple C code
2020-09-06T21:55:19 < Cracki> sendto+recvfrom in a loop
2020-09-06T21:55:26 < Steffanx> qyx didnt you use some fancy epaper dispaly for something? And didnt you have a shitload of issues with it?
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2020-09-06T22:05:10 < qyx> Steffanx: I tried two with rpi, no issues at all
2020-09-06T22:05:15 < qyx> worked on first try
2020-09-06T22:10:19 < Steffanx> i recall you had issues with it
2020-09-06T22:10:23 < Steffanx> but.. maybe i was wrong :P
2020-09-06T22:13:13 < qyx> I had issues with long update times on the dual color one
2020-09-06T22:13:19 < qyx> it is 10-15secs
2020-09-06T22:13:30 < qyx> which makes it basically unusable for anything except price tags
2020-09-06T22:15:44 < Steffanx> ah maybe it was that
2020-09-06T22:16:48 < Steffanx> those https://nl.aliexpress.com/item/1005001315435622.html ?
2020-09-06T22:19:14 < qyx> no, I bought them from buydisplay
2020-09-06T22:19:22 < qyx> at least the better/latter one
2020-09-06T22:19:52 < qyx> I have this https://www.buydisplay.com/yellow-2-13-inch-e-paper-display-module-212x104-for-arduino-raspberry-pi
2020-09-06T22:20:22 < qyx> and this https://www.buydisplay.com/2-7-inch-epaper-176x264-e-ink-display-panel-white-black
2020-09-06T22:20:47 < Steffanx> ah
2020-09-06T22:33:19 < Mangy_Dog> buydisplay is a good company
2020-09-06T22:33:52 < Mangy_Dog> also ive seen that dual colour displays are slow
2020-09-06T22:34:04 < Mangy_Dog> i think thats the same across the baord
2020-09-06T22:34:05 < Mangy_Dog> board
2020-09-06T22:41:41 < Steffanx> i would just have to do partial updates, or will it do complete updates all the time?
2020-09-06T22:43:13 < qyx> partial updates work
2020-09-06T22:43:18 < qyx> but they are not faster
2020-09-06T22:43:45 < qyx> but at least the rest of the area is not blinking
2020-09-06T22:43:56 < Steffanx> i can deal with seconds, but not +10 seconds.
2020-09-06T22:44:37 < qyx> there are small artifacts when doing partial updates
2020-09-06T22:44:47 < qyx> you have to do full update sometimes to clear them
2020-09-06T22:45:25 < Steffanx> Yeah, i can deal with that too. i think, but not +10 second updates all the time
2020-09-06T22:45:53 < qyx> then you are ok
2020-09-06T22:46:18 < qyx> I was satisfied with the 2.7" black/white one
2020-09-06T22:46:33 < Steffanx> color would be nice for me.
2020-09-06T22:46:38 < qyx> then +10s
2020-09-06T22:46:51 < Steffanx> then its a no-go meh
2020-09-06T22:46:59 < qyx> dual color are super slow
2020-09-06T22:54:11 < Steffanx> meh
2020-09-06T23:05:03 < Cracki> check out some videos on yt. they show what it behaves like, and what you can tweak.
2020-09-06T23:05:21 < Cracki> I've seen some "corner cutting" that made *video* almost smooth.
2020-09-06T23:06:38 < Steffanx> the 2 videos i watch of random displays seemed pretty slow indeed
2020-09-06T23:06:41 < Steffanx> awfully flashy
2020-09-06T23:06:50 < Cracki> 2.4 fps (video is 10x) https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KS8M_MV3Xhw
2020-09-06T23:06:59 < Cracki> I'll look for one with color too
2020-09-06T23:07:11 < Cracki> you'll notice artefacts here, which is the tradeoff for the speed
2020-09-06T23:08:40 < Cracki> lol 85 hz https://cntechpost.com/2020/05/11/unisoc-phones-with-85hz-high-refresh-rate-e-ink-display-in-june/
2020-09-06T23:09:16 < Cracki> I think they need so long for grayscale
2020-09-06T23:09:24 < Steffanx> Yeah, but .. here they probably drive it all themselves? (im not even sure how those tiny ones work... does it have some controller in it? )
2020-09-06T23:09:33 < Cracki> afaik yes
2020-09-06T23:09:43 < Cracki> always some control logic. afaik it's temperature dependent even
2020-09-06T23:09:55 < Steffanx> and im not sure where in the case of the tiny ones the slowness comes from
2020-09-06T23:10:05 < Cracki> and needs to generate relatively high voltages (more than logic level anyway)
2020-09-06T23:10:19 < Cracki> area doesn't matter
2020-09-06T23:11:19 < Cracki> (I last touched an e-ink display in 2016 or so and never bothered to get it running)
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2020-09-06T23:12:17 < Cracki> here you see them flicker it at >2 hz. they do that for the fine brightness levels. https://youtu.be/tVANwwXtHEI?t=43
2020-09-06T23:13:16 < qyx> Steffanx: yes, driver embedded, no grayscale
2020-09-06T23:13:34 < Cracki> all I know about color e-ink is that they have to "modulate" similarly to get the red to show up before/after black
2020-09-06T23:13:37 < Steffanx> my issue isnt if epaper can do it Cracki... but if that specific display can do it. 
2020-09-06T23:13:43 < Cracki> ok
2020-09-06T23:13:45 < Steffanx> ;)
2020-09-06T23:14:31 < qyx> and yes, you need +-20V boost dc/dc iirc
2020-09-06T23:14:35 < qyx> or so
2020-09-06T23:15:12 < qyx> but they make your live easier by embedding most of it, only an external inductor and a transistor/caps is needed
2020-09-06T23:15:25 < qyx> but check the docs, I don't remember exactly
2020-09-06T23:15:30 < Steffanx> Time for some more research, and not ##stm32 research :P
2020-09-06T23:15:48 < qyx> copy sch from the RPi board
2020-09-06T23:16:12 < qyx> what are you innovating?
2020-09-06T23:16:20 < Steffanx> those aliexpress modules seem to have it all
2020-09-06T23:16:34 < Steffanx> nothing yet
2020-09-06T23:20:48 < qyx> wheres mr. L.
2020-09-06T23:22:28 < Steffanx> To the same place as mr BD?
2020-09-06T23:22:43 < Mangy_Dog> sorry was afk
2020-09-06T23:22:55 < Mangy_Dog> So basically the colour pigment is bigger than the black pigment
2020-09-06T23:23:02 < Mangy_Dog> and it fills the same pigment cell
2020-09-06T23:23:15 < Mangy_Dog> both black and colour are the same positive charge
2020-09-06T23:23:22 < Mangy_Dog> but because of size they move at different speeds
2020-09-06T23:23:42 < Steffanx> already gave up on cheap dual colour ones
2020-09-06T23:24:30 < Mangy_Dog> so the basic idea is you fullet charge the pixel which pulls both colour and black pigment up to the surface, then pulse the pixel in short bursts to move the faster moving black pigment back down the cell, leaving the slower moving colour pigment at the surface
2020-09-06T23:24:59 < Mangy_Dog> this is the same process for all 3 colour displays (white black colour)
2020-09-06T23:25:09 < Mangy_Dog> rgb displays are different
2020-09-06T23:25:19 < Mangy_Dog> i assume its a rgb array setup
2020-09-06T23:25:32 < Mangy_Dog> rgb k
2020-09-06T23:25:37 < Mangy_Dog> cymk maybe
2020-09-06T23:25:39 < Mangy_Dog> actually
2020-09-06T23:25:44 < Mangy_Dog> yeah cymk makes more sense
2020-09-06T23:26:28 < Mangy_Dog> but how they arrange the cells i dont know... the simple 2 or 3 colour setup... the cells are... some what organically created
2020-09-06T23:26:44 < Mangy_Dog> randomised
2020-09-06T23:31:11 < Cracki> https://www.eink.com/color-technology.html
2020-09-06T23:31:16 < Cracki> no matrix
2020-09-06T23:31:28 < upgrdman> god damn. why is there no decent free uart emulator for win10
2020-09-06T23:31:41 < upgrdman> i had to ghetto rig this fucker http://farrellf.com/temp/virtual_serial_port.jpg
2020-09-06T23:31:46 < Cracki> maybe they continue the "particle speed" mechanism
2020-09-06T23:32:00 < Cracki> what do you mean free
2020-09-06T23:32:02 < zyp> upgrdman, haha
2020-09-06T23:32:16 < upgrdman> zyp, inorite?!
2020-09-06T23:32:24 < Cracki> usb uart bridges, even with control signals, care available
2020-09-06T23:32:33 < zyp> upgrdman, I'd probably just hack up something with two ACM interfaces and loop them too each other
2020-09-06T23:32:36 < Mangy_Dog> ummmm
2020-09-06T23:32:40 < upgrdman> Cracki, only free option i found is com0com, and their driver signature expired so win10 fights you on it
2020-09-06T23:32:47 < Cracki> and the api supports those. if you mean a program, HTerm
2020-09-06T23:32:54 < zyp> but then again I don't really do windows
2020-09-06T23:33:00 < Cracki> ah! virtual null modem!
2020-09-06T23:33:12 < Cracki> I heard of something like that
2020-09-06T23:33:39 < Mangy_Dog> ha
2020-09-06T23:33:45 < Mangy_Dog> that eink prism demo
2020-09-06T23:33:56 < Cracki> does this site look shady to you https://freevirtualserialports.com/
2020-09-06T23:33:57 < Mangy_Dog> thats looks like a macro version of how the cells lok
2020-09-06T23:34:30 < Mangy_Dog> the cells are randomized, and a pixel spans several cells
2020-09-06T23:34:38 < Mangy_Dog> what ever the latice is
2020-09-06T23:34:42 < Steffanx> does osx come with something loopbackish zyp?
2020-09-06T23:34:56 < Steffanx> macos or whatever you want to call it nowadays
2020-09-06T23:35:05 < upgrdman> Cracki, hmm. i found that hhd software page earlier, but they didnt list a free version. those faggots tried to trick me into paying :/
2020-09-06T23:35:15 < Cracki> :P
2020-09-06T23:35:16 < Mangy_Dog> ....
2020-09-06T23:35:16 < upgrdman> i guess i could try it
2020-09-06T23:35:22 < Mangy_Dog> please dont use that word
2020-09-06T23:35:23 < Steffanx> Just pay for it cheapskate :P
2020-09-06T23:35:38 < Cracki> this has an animation illustrating 4 pigments https://www.eink.com/electronic-ink.html
2020-09-06T23:35:59 < upgrdman> ya this   https://www.hhdsoftware.com/virtual-serial-ports
2020-09-06T23:36:00 < Cracki> looks like they have two positive and two negative ones
2020-09-06T23:36:12 < Cracki> so it's a "simple" extension of the 2-pigment case
2020-09-06T23:36:12 < Mangy_Dog> ohh
2020-09-06T23:36:40 < Cracki> huh, the animation sucks. they move 3 pigments while keeping one static sometimes
2020-09-06T23:36:41 < Mangy_Dog> impressed
2020-09-06T23:36:45 < Mangy_Dog> that actually works
2020-09-06T23:36:48 < Cracki> patents
2020-09-06T23:36:59 < Cracki> wonder wat the patents say, or wat the patent numbers even are
2020-09-06T23:37:48 < Mangy_Dog> honestly seems like that method should be impossible
2020-09-06T23:39:05 < Cracki> even if they do nothing different from the 2-pigment mechanism, you can just extend that to speeds of 1,2,4,8 or something, and wiggle them all around
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2020-09-06T23:39:30 < Cracki> so if you wanted the slowest outside, move them all up, then the fastest 3 back down
2020-09-06T23:39:32 < Mangy_Dog> but even with different moving speeds pigments
2020-09-06T23:39:39 < Cracki> and so on
2020-09-06T23:39:42 < Mangy_Dog> it should be impossible for certain combinations
2020-09-06T23:39:47 < Cracki> nah
2020-09-06T23:39:59 < Cracki> you move the slowest into positino first, then the next fastest, etc
2020-09-06T23:40:10 < Cracki> yes it won't be 100% that I can think of rn
2020-09-06T23:40:14 < Mangy_Dog> hmmmmmmm
2020-09-06T23:40:21 < Mangy_Dog> maybe duty cycle control
2020-09-06T23:40:32 < Mangy_Dog> to select which band of pigments to move
2020-09-06T23:40:48 < Cracki> maybe the liquid in there (it's liquid right?) has some funny viscosity properties
2020-09-06T23:40:58 < Mangy_Dog> its an oil
2020-09-06T23:40:59 < Cracki> so shit stays put instead of moving, if force is small enough
2020-09-06T23:41:01 < Mangy_Dog> apparantly
2020-09-06T23:41:21 < Cracki> still googling for ACeP patent
2020-09-06T23:41:49 < Mangy_Dog> ha might be able to come up with the concept but i really doubt ill ever in my life time be able to make one my self :D
2020-09-06T23:43:07 < Mangy_Dog> damnit no
2020-09-06T23:43:16 < Mangy_Dog> even with that idea that duty cycle sets what pigment
2020-09-06T23:43:26 < Cracki> >In addition to their color, they also differ in size, polarity and the strength of the charge they carry.  https://www.visionect.com/blog/epaper-takes-on-full-color/
2020-09-06T23:43:30 < Mangy_Dog> that would only work if you always want the same set of pigment order
2020-09-06T23:43:41 < Mangy_Dog> which again locks out at least half the colour pallet
2020-09-06T23:43:55 < Cracki> why tho
2020-09-06T23:44:06 < Mangy_Dog> ok
2020-09-06T23:44:23 < Cracki> the black/white/red case works, they just add another pigment
2020-09-06T23:44:32 < Mangy_Dog> say red is the slowest and blue is the fastest, and green is the middle speed.... How do you make purple?
2020-09-06T23:44:34 < Cracki> or two really
2020-09-06T23:44:44 < Cracki> how do you do it with two pigments?
2020-09-06T23:44:50 < Mangy_Dog> ignoring black and white pigments for the moment
2020-09-06T23:45:12 < Cracki> they aren't opposite polarities, they're the same, but one is slower
2020-09-06T23:45:17 < Mangy_Dog> yeah
2020-09-06T23:45:25 < Mangy_Dog> white is teh only negative polarity
2020-09-06T23:45:31 < Mangy_Dog> all the rest are positivly charged
2020-09-06T23:45:40 < Mangy_Dog> but ignoring that for the moment
2020-09-06T23:45:40 < Cracki> and in this simpler case, if you wanted the fastest outside, you move it, and the slower one stays back. but if you want the slow one outside, you move them both up, and the fast one back down
2020-09-06T23:45:44 < Mangy_Dog> how do you make purple?
2020-09-06T23:45:45 < Cracki> so it's a multi step processs
2020-09-06T23:46:30 < Mangy_Dog> that doesnt solve mixing blue with red and keeping green out the pixel
2020-09-06T23:46:46 < Cracki> I think the 4p case gives each two one polarity, and the other pairings get distinguished by speed/size
2020-09-06T23:47:04 < Cracki> let's say the colors are same polarity, different speed
2020-09-06T23:47:18 < Cracki> say r=1, g=2, b=4 for speed
2020-09-06T23:47:27 < Cracki> which combination do you want
2020-09-06T23:47:38 < Cracki> blue? move briefly. blue on top, rest back
2020-09-06T23:47:54 < Cracki> red? move all up, then move the fastest two back down
2020-09-06T23:48:13 < Cracki> red blue? rgb up, gb down, b up
2020-09-06T23:48:33 < Cracki> green? gb up, b down
2020-09-06T23:48:35 < Mangy_Dog> sure that makes sense when youre calling them colours, but theyre not
2020-09-06T23:48:39 < Mangy_Dog> Its speeds
2020-09-06T23:48:51 < Cracki> I assigned a speed to each color
2020-09-06T23:48:51 < Mangy_Dog> and assuming its controled by something like duty cycle
2020-09-06T23:48:55 < Cracki> that makes them equivalent
2020-09-06T23:49:02 < Cracki> why do you assume that
2020-09-06T23:49:03 < Mangy_Dog> to great the force that pulls the pigment
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2020-09-06T23:49:36 < Cracki> assume it's some force that moves them, and strength of that force applies to all particles equally, so you have to work with the limits, where particles "hit the wall"
2020-09-06T23:50:16 < Mangy_Dog> and yes you assigned a speed to each colour, but youre forgetting that in the scale of speeds, the things that move fastest move fast but the things that move slowest move the fastest too
2020-09-06T23:50:26 < Cracki> wat
2020-09-06T23:50:36 < Cracki> r u drunk
2020-09-06T23:50:53 < Mangy_Dog> red fastest green middle blue slowest for example.... You want to move green, the red will move too....
2020-09-06T23:51:01 < Cracki> I'll go back to watching animal documentaries
2020-09-06T23:52:32 < Mangy_Dog> my point is. i dont think duty cycle for creating force strength is the key or at least... not the part. Maybe the pigments have a resonence frequincy or something.... So only when the force is in that frequincy it vibrates it and allows it to move
2020-09-06T23:52:46 < Cracki> _you_ want duty cycle. I don't need that.
2020-09-06T23:53:07 < Cracki> I just need colors having different speeds in reaction to the same applied force.
2020-09-06T23:53:24 < Cracki> did you understand where I say it's a multi step process?
2020-09-06T23:53:41 < Mangy_Dog> yes but again that breaks the order of pigments which would make certain combinations impossible
2020-09-06T23:53:54 < Cracki> if I drew a time-space diagram it might help but I don't have pens of enough colors on my desk
2020-09-06T23:54:06 < Cracki> ok so you didn't
2020-09-06T23:54:16 < Mangy_Dog> i get its a multi step process
2020-09-06T23:54:39 < Mangy_Dog> but youre missing that in the order of pigments, if you want to move one thing the faster pigments above must move too
2020-09-06T23:54:47 < Mangy_Dog> for instance again
2020-09-06T23:55:01 < Mangy_Dog> you want a green pixel, but green is slower than red... you cant get green
2020-09-06T23:55:09 < Mangy_Dog> because the red must move too
2020-09-06T23:55:12 < Mangy_Dog> as its faster
2020-09-06T23:55:22 < Mangy_Dog> youll get orange
2020-09-06T23:55:27 < Mangy_Dog> or brown
2020-09-06T23:57:29 < Cracki> say red is faster. then red moves faster to the surface, but also faster back down
2020-09-06T23:57:42 < Cracki> so pull both up, then only pull red back down
2020-09-06T23:57:44 < Cracki> make sense?
2020-09-06T23:57:56 < Mangy_Dog> yes
2020-09-06T23:58:00 < Cracki> there's only so many ways I can phrase that
2020-09-06T23:58:04 < Mangy_Dog> I get that
2020-09-06T23:58:11 < Cracki> but you say it makes no sense
2020-09-06T23:58:12 < Mangy_Dog> thats how 3 pigment displays work
2020-09-06T23:58:18 < Cracki> so?
2020-09-06T23:58:24 < Mangy_Dog> but then do that with 4 pigments
2020-09-06T23:58:26 < Cracki> just continue the pattern
2020-09-06T23:58:29 < Mangy_Dog> well 3
2020-09-06T23:58:33 < Mangy_Dog> 4th is negative anyway
2020-09-06T23:58:44 < Cracki> I'll draw you a picture
2020-09-06T23:58:55 < Mangy_Dog> no its ok
--- Day changed Mon Sep 07 2020
2020-09-07T00:00:59 < catphish> Cracki: draw me like one of your french girls
2020-09-07T00:01:28 < Steffanx> Lolwut
2020-09-07T00:02:13 < Cracki> french catfish girls
2020-09-07T00:02:36 < Cracki> and when you lift the skirt, it's a baguette
2020-09-07T00:03:29  * Mangy_Dog makes french excited horny noises!
2020-09-07T00:03:58 < Cracki> still haven't found a patent, oh well
2020-09-07T00:04:15 < Cracki> with some funny viscosity one could do this perfectly
2020-09-07T00:04:15 < Mangy_Dog> well that means youre in with your chance to put the patent in
2020-09-07T00:04:16 < Mangy_Dog> :D
2020-09-07T00:04:46 < Mangy_Dog> tbh i kinda still like the idea of certain pigments accepting brackets of frequincy
2020-09-07T00:05:07 < Cracki> green is tricky but I can do half green with a little bit blue, red with some green and less blue, ...
2020-09-07T00:05:39 < Cracki> all the magic comes from nonlinearities
2020-09-07T00:05:53 < Cracki> the top/bottom of a cell is one such nonlinearity
2020-09-07T00:06:02 < Mangy_Dog> nods
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2020-09-07T00:09:00 < Cracki> french horn
2020-09-07T00:09:22 < Cracki> this contains horny france https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RZ3vhPYex90
2020-09-07T00:09:39 < Mangy_Dog> this is august 2020
2020-09-07T00:09:41 < Mangy_Dog> that bit looks g
2020-09-07T00:09:42 < Mangy_Dog> cg
2020-09-07T00:10:10 < Cracki> him moving colored country outlines is definitely cg
2020-09-07T00:10:52 < Mangy_Dog> na just that factory looking building looked like a cg model
2020-09-07T00:11:01 < Cracki> very nice graphics indeed
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2020-09-07T01:06:19 < Cracki> inspector cracistky
2020-09-07T01:06:53 < Cracki> 20s problems require 30x solutions
2020-09-07T01:06:56 < Cracki> *30s
2020-09-07T01:07:22 < Cracki> maybe this time without 40s brother wars
2020-09-07T01:08:03 < Cracki> it would be a shame if mankind lost another century
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2020-09-07T05:35:37 < aandrew> https://i.redd.it/not3nfgkaml51.jpg gonna put this on my headstone
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2020-09-07T07:07:58 < upgrdman> aandrew, plot twist, your mom is the one to bury you
2020-09-07T07:08:10 < upgrdman> that'd be awkward for her to read :)
2020-09-07T07:14:07 < upgrdman> on other news, im getting tempted to buy a couple 4k144 monitors and a gtx3090...
2020-09-07T07:14:17 < upgrdman> i dont even game very much, but fuck it, why not
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2020-09-07T07:51:52 < jadew> have shipping prices gone up for china -> world?
2020-09-07T08:03:05 < jadew> nvm, it was the stencil that made the difference
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2020-09-07T11:55:46 < karlp> fucking hell, ordering for work makes customs fees even more ludicrous.
2020-09-07T11:56:01 < karlp> 4812 kr parcel, 4900 kr fees.
2020-09-07T11:56:16 < karlp> and that's a "real" parcel where the fixed portions should be lower.
2020-09-07T11:56:47 < karlp> post service is cheaper for residential, more expensive for commercial, UPS/DHL/FedEx are the other way around :|
2020-09-07T11:57:23 < Steffanx> Is this outside europe stuff or .. ?
2020-09-07T11:57:49 < Steffanx> Or even inside the EEA
2020-09-07T11:58:06 < karlp> of course. I can't find any euro sellers remotely compettive. and they all charge me monstrous shipping in general
2020-09-07T11:58:25 < karlp> of that 4900 in fees, only 600kr is the "outside eea special charge"
2020-09-07T11:59:05 < karlp> 1300 is vat, 14008 for calculating vat.
2020-09-07T11:59:08 < karlp> 1408
2020-09-07T12:00:25 < effractur> but the VAT you just get back from the tax office
2020-09-07T12:01:04 < karlp> eventually,
2020-09-07T12:01:07 < karlp> not the rest of it.
2020-09-07T12:02:07 < effractur> you should be able afaik with the correct forms just being able to import it without vat
2020-09-07T12:02:31 < karlp> yeah, dude who does most of our shipping says "just don't use the post"
2020-09-07T12:02:41 < Steffanx> So what is the de factor standard hobby bobby vna for basic antenna tuning nowadays? (2.4GHz)
2020-09-07T12:02:42 < karlp> and yes, _allegedly_ youcan, as a business
2020-09-07T12:02:50 < karlp> but the vat is the least of my concern
2020-09-07T12:05:42 < jadew> karlp, that's insane
2020-09-07T12:06:02 < jadew> regular post here is equally shit
2020-09-07T12:07:25 < jadew> it's several times more expensive for commercial customers - which I find outrageous
2020-09-07T12:07:49 < jadew> considering commercial customers are paying for their fucking existence
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2020-09-07T12:30:25 < karlp> hah, it's actually worse.  we _are_ properly vat registered
2020-09-07T12:30:37 < karlp> so that 4900 fees is _without_ vat.
2020-09-07T12:37:53 < karlp> in ~related news, bluetooth is wayyyyy slower at barcode scanning than the usb dongle hid mode.
2020-09-07T12:38:10 < karlp> barcode reader came with a cool springy belt clip thing though :)
2020-09-07T12:41:04 < karlp> httpsÆþþst323232öfunnyötimes.myetactica.com
2020-09-07T12:45:24 < karlp> AT+HIDDLY=0 yay
2020-09-07T12:47:38 < karlp> https://st323232þfunnyþtimes.myetactica.com
2020-09-07T12:47:48 < karlp> shit, wrong window focus again
2020-09-07T12:48:46 < karlp> gigadevice. I wonder if this is "gd32 inside"
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2020-09-07T13:25:37 < englishman> Steffanx: not sure there is anything better than minivna yet for that freq
2020-09-07T13:25:49 < englishman> there was some opensores thing I heard about this summer
2020-09-07T13:25:56 < englishman> but it looked rushed and incomplete
2020-09-07T13:35:05 < Steffanx> Hmm ok
2020-09-07T13:37:35 < karlp> if ugprdman comes back: https://sourceforge.net/projects/unix-utils/files/socat/1.7.3.2/ will give him com2com stuff (amongst others)
2020-09-07T13:38:23 < mawk> socat ♥
2020-09-07T13:41:05 < mawk> socat TCP4-LISTEN:8080,fork,reuseport,bind=0.0.0.0 EXEC:/my/most/ugly/script.sh
2020-09-07T13:41:57 < karlp> or this sort of madness: http://www.dest-unreach.org/socat/doc/socat.html#EXAMPLE_ADDRESS_PTY
2020-09-07T13:42:43 < jadew> Steffanx, there's also crapvna 2 aka nanovna2
2020-09-07T13:44:59 < jadew> I assume they're both useless for anything active
2020-09-07T13:47:14 < Steffanx> It just for some (basic) antenna for 2.4GHz/BLE stuff 
2020-09-07T13:48:40 < jadew> yeah, should be fine for passive stuff
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2020-09-07T14:37:53 < karlp> hrm, looks like keyboard settings must be supported in the firmware of the scanner, so no .is for me :)
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2020-09-07T14:54:57 < karlp> now, how much do I want to get into cups raster to ptouch conversions
2020-09-07T14:55:08 < karlp> and how much do I want to just pretend that 36mm tape doesn't exist and move on with my life.
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2020-09-07T15:22:20 < Steffanx> Is the nanovna2 that bad mr jadew? For hobby bobby grade tuning?
2020-09-07T15:22:52 < Steffanx> What can go wrong for 55 euro bucks
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2020-09-07T15:45:41 < karlp> not really sure you want jadew's opinion :)
2020-09-07T15:50:26 < qyx> nanovna2 is 55e? I want one then
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2020-09-07T16:11:17 < Steffanx> 56 on the alie.
2020-09-07T16:11:49 < Steffanx> Sorry the banggood
2020-09-07T16:12:45 < Steffanx> Haha yes karlp. I thought about that before asking 
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2020-09-07T16:36:50 < Steffanx> Aliexpress has cheaper ones .. not sure if all those versions are the same
2020-09-07T16:51:59 < Steffanx> Want to see a bad movie Jadew? Try Bill & Ted Face the Music.
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2020-09-07T17:15:59 < karlp> is that the new one?
2020-09-07T17:21:55 < Steffanx> The bill and ted. Yeah
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2020-09-07T18:01:07 < karlp> heh. fixed the printer
2020-09-07T18:01:20 < karlp> looks like signed/unsigned ill defined behaviour :)
2020-09-07T18:07:26 < Mangy_Dog> Steffanx i read that is was a rather decent film
2020-09-07T18:07:38 < Mangy_Dog> nothing likje super amazing but a nice little nostalger trip
2020-09-07T18:08:24 < Mangy_Dog> a bit of light hearted fun
2020-09-07T18:09:50 < Mangy_Dog> i didnt want to go see a bill and ted film that turns out to be a high concept time travel film with serious stakes and true perel with bucket loads of self reflection and philosophy.... got tenet for that :p
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2020-09-07T18:44:57 < Steffanx> Its not my kind of comedy  Mangy_Dog  
2020-09-07T18:45:11 < karlp> so, who's nerdy enough to "just know" what the undefined behaviour is here: https://github.com/philpem/printer-driver-ptouch/blob/master/rastertoptch.c#L1352 
2020-09-07T18:45:27 < karlp> rewriting that in multiple steps results in "correct" maths at least
2020-09-07T18:49:03 < Ultrasauce> mixed unsigned/signed
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2020-09-07T18:53:10 < karlp> well, yes, obviously, not sure which one though,
2020-09-07T18:54:59 < Ultrasauce> the rhs expression will end up being unsigned
2020-09-07T18:55:10 < upgrdman> how i imagine most europeans    https://www.reddit.com/r/WTF/comments/io9na0/german_dude/
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2020-09-07T18:59:56 < Ultrasauce> so right_padding_bits will be overflowed in the case where it should be negative and then clamped
2020-09-07T19:00:06 < Ultrasauce> and signed overflow is ub
2020-09-07T19:00:32 < jpa-> upgrdman: looks accurate
2020-09-07T19:00:41 < jpa-> though he's missing a sauna
2020-09-07T19:02:14 < upgrdman> hehe
2020-09-07T19:02:39 < karlp> Ultrasauce: sounds good.
2020-09-07T19:04:36 < jpa-> it would fail even with defined signed overflow: the right side is unsigned inside () like Ultrasauce said, and then / 2 is computed as unsigned => if it was negative, the sign bit gets divided and result is 0x7FFFF...
2020-09-07T19:05:12 < karlp> I cna't get a warning on the line though
2020-09-07T19:05:20 < karlp> I get warnings on comparison of integer expressions of different signedness in a few places
2020-09-07T19:05:49 < karlp> -Wall and -Wextra at least
2020-09-07T19:06:29 < Ultrasauce> ah yes
2020-09-07T19:06:35 < qyx> -pendantic -ocpd
2020-09-07T19:06:41 < Ultrasauce> -ircEE
2020-09-07T19:07:22 < karlp> nope pedantic just adds shit like "ISO C forbids empty initializer braces { }"
2020-09-07T19:08:13 < Ultrasauce> onegai ubsan
2020-09-07T19:08:23 < karlp> -Wconversion of course
2020-09-07T19:08:30 < karlp> yay, new it had to be ther esomewhere.
2020-09-07T19:08:36 < jpa-> -Wconversion ... too slow
2020-09-07T19:10:55 < karlp> man, there's a heap of warnings on this codebase for this :|
2020-09-07T19:11:02 < karlp> not my monkeys
2020-09-07T19:11:08 < karlp> printer works, back to the real world
2020-09-07T19:11:17 < karlp> unsigned conversion from ‘int’ to ‘unsigned char’ changes the value of ‘-1’
2020-09-07T19:11:21 < karlp> that's a good one.
2020-09-07T19:13:14 < qyx> also who the hell uses "unsigned" type
2020-09-07T19:13:31 < karlp> legacy shits
2020-09-07T19:13:36 < karlp> c89 forevahhhh
2020-09-07T19:13:40 < karlp> I presume
2020-09-07T19:13:46 < karlp> code style is not my taste :)
2020-09-07T19:15:15 < Steffanx> I was waiting for mr d to rage about it
2020-09-07T19:15:16 < qyx> it is like putting all types in a bucket, stirring well and pouring into github
2020-09-07T19:18:08 < qyx> so is mr. L covid positive?
2020-09-07T19:20:09 < Steffanx> Hes so negative he can't be positive for anything
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2020-09-07T20:08:17 < R2COM> <upgrdman> on other news, im getting tempted to buy a couple 4k144 monitors and a gtx3090...
2020-09-07T20:08:22 < R2COM> wow...bruh
2020-09-07T20:08:51 < R2COM> i wonder if i should buy 3090 too, since i already have 2080rtx and honestly all works ok for me
2020-09-07T20:09:04 < R2COM> not with 4k 144... what monitor you wanna buy exactly
2020-09-07T20:09:49 < R2COM> https://www.amazon.com/BenQ-EW3280U-Entertainment-connectivity-Speakers/dp/B081V1M5CR/ref=sr_1_1_sspa?dchild=1&keywords=4K+Monitor+144Hz&qid=1599498563&sr=8-1-spons&psc=1&spLa=ZW5jcnlwdGVkUXVhbGlmaWVyPUExSjM5RDZXME5NVzNSJmVuY3J5cHRlZElkPUEwNDc5MDYyMTlENEZDNzk1WjRDWCZlbmNyeXB0ZWRBZElkPUEwNjM1MTM2MUNZNDk5QkdMNlE3TSZ3aWRnZXROYW1lPXNwX2F0ZiZhY3Rpb249Y2xpY2tSZWRpcmVjdCZkb05vdExvZ0NsaWNrPXRydWU=
2020-09-07T20:09:50 < R2COM> ?
2020-09-07T20:13:28 < R2COM> 3090 is not even out nigga
2020-09-07T20:15:55 < upgrdman> R2COM, i've been thinking about this, but want to see it IRL to judge it  https://www.lg.com/us/monitors/lg-27gn950-b-gaming-monitor
2020-09-07T20:16:16 < upgrdman> the giant glowing LED cockring is annoying, but whatever, i don't have to see it when im working
2020-09-07T20:16:52 < jpa-> *i* need to see upgrdman's giant glowing cockring
2020-09-07T20:17:22 < upgrdman> jpa-, https://www.lg.com/us/images/monitors/md07500042/features/MNT-27GN950-10-Stylish-Design-D.jpg
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2020-09-07T20:26:02 < mawk> I sure hope a LED cockring has stylish design
2020-09-07T20:27:35 < jpa-> i'd hope it was SMD design and not through-hole
2020-09-07T20:27:35 < boddax> any angle sensor module  to apply at the cnc screw turning table?
2020-09-07T20:32:46 < mawk> lol
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2020-09-07T20:49:30 < jadew> Steffanx, the problem with these bare bones VNAs, is that they just use the unfiltered output from a VCO
2020-09-07T20:50:31 < jadew> and those VCOs usually have two bands, a fundamental one (say 2 GHz to 4 GHz), and a divided down one
2020-09-07T20:50:49 < jadew> the divided down one will have a more or less square wave output
2020-09-07T20:51:48 < jadew> while the fundamental one will be equally distorted, I assume because they need sharp edges for the divider and also because it's difficult to create a variable oscillator that has just the right amount of feedback to create a sine, with only one voltage input
2020-09-07T20:52:10 < jadew> anyway, the point is that they have shit output
2020-09-07T20:53:18 < jadew> also, they don't have good enough filtering on the input either, and when you combine these two things you get... not sure what
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2020-09-07T20:54:25 < jadew> it might be ok for linear passive networks and devices, but for active and nonlinear ones, you could easily end up measuring something that isn't there
2020-09-07T20:55:27 < jadew> because you would have intermodulation, different frequency responses (on amplifier), or even additional stray signals (outside of the band of interest)
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2020-09-07T21:04:44 < boddax> hi meowk
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2020-09-07T21:20:08 < Steffanx> lo
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2020-09-07T21:48:06 < Steffanx> lol, i just noticed my microsoft account still has the MSN image i had since .. 2003. 
2020-09-07T22:08:33 < Cracki> boddax, angle sensor in what way?
2020-09-07T22:08:48 < Cracki> gyroscope, or incremental rotary encoder, or absolute rotary encoder, or a linear encoder?
2020-09-07T22:09:23 < boddax> hi cracki , in both way fwd and reverse
2020-09-07T22:09:52 < Cracki> sure they all work in both directions, but which do you need
2020-09-07T22:10:15 < Cracki> what angle do you need to sense
2020-09-07T22:10:20 < boddax> i guess rotary
2020-09-07T22:10:46 < Cracki> if it's for a CNC, look for "digital read-out" (DRO)
2020-09-07T22:11:02 < Cracki> there are kits that give you nice readouts in standard units
2020-09-07T22:11:15 < boddax> i explain ... wanted to put on main lead screw of lathe ..that kind of screw to tjread
2020-09-07T22:11:43 < Cracki> ye, DRO kit, unless you _want_ to diy
2020-09-07T22:11:59 < boddax> usually splitted in 4 ..to sync the tread for the next pass
2020-09-07T22:12:45 < boddax> i think diy because simple 
2020-09-07T22:13:15 < Cracki> incremental rotary encoders are expressed in pulses/counts per revolution (PPR, CPR), and if you look at both edges of both tracks, you get edges = 4x pulses. 100-5000 PPR are commonly available encoders you can mount to pretty much any shaft or other rotating thing
2020-09-07T22:13:41 < Cracki> aliex has cheap ~100 PPR code wheels and optical pickups
2020-09-07T22:14:06 < boddax> sign 1 then led bar increment ontil 2 etc..then after 4 back to 1
2020-09-07T22:15:03 < boddax> but i guess need several reference point
2020-09-07T22:15:04 < Cracki> you can buy professional stuff, which is from... broadcom now, https://www.broadcom.com/products/motion-control-encoders/incremental-encoders
2020-09-07T22:15:49 < Cracki> if you have incremental encoders, you'd need something for reference, end switch or manual zeroing
2020-09-07T22:16:19 < boddax> yes yes code wheel
2020-09-07T22:16:46 < mawk> show the image Steffanx 
2020-09-07T22:16:49 < Cracki> if the thing ultimately moves linearly, you'd want a linear encoder on it. even if you have an absolute encoder on a screw, it can only tell you the angle of the screw, not the position of any linear carriage
2020-09-07T22:16:59 < Steffanx> nah ty mawk
2020-09-07T22:17:05 < mawk> plz :(
2020-09-07T22:17:13 < mawk> I want to see your pretty face
2020-09-07T22:17:18 < Steffanx> its not even my face
2020-09-07T22:17:21 < boddax> till 512 ref points
2020-09-07T22:17:37 < Cracki> stm32f103 timer can decode the quadrature signal of an incremental encoder and give you a count from that
2020-09-07T22:17:42 < boddax> no totational only
2020-09-07T22:17:51 < boddax> rot
2020-09-07T22:18:59 < Steffanx> It's a text that says Happy 2004 (and 5, 6, 7 and 8). mawk
2020-09-07T22:19:03 < boddax> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mt3hZGHy3tc this is mechanical
2020-09-07T22:19:19 < mawk> lame Steffanx 
2020-09-07T22:19:25 < Steffanx> thanks
2020-09-07T22:19:29 < mawk> give me a refund for my expectations
2020-09-07T22:19:34 < mawk> I give you a IDEAL link
2020-09-07T22:19:38 < mawk> (see how I'm dutch now ?)
2020-09-07T22:19:48 < Cracki> there are magnetic encoders too (which would be absolute rotary encoders), so there are some options
2020-09-07T22:19:57 < Steffanx> tikkie mawk
2020-09-07T22:20:07 < Steffanx> Shouldnt you be watching soccer ball boddax?
2020-09-07T22:20:30 < boddax> i hate soccer 
2020-09-07T22:20:35 < mawk> who says soccer ?
2020-09-07T22:20:55 < boddax> even i was great player :=)
2020-09-07T22:21:25 < Steffanx> Shouldnt you be watching soccer ball like a real dutchy mawk?
2020-09-07T22:21:32 < Steffanx> Dutchland vs italy
2020-09-07T22:21:35 < boddax> ok Cracki you give me good hints thanks
2020-09-07T22:21:38 < mawk> noooooooo no soccer
2020-09-07T22:21:41 < mawk> we say football
2020-09-07T22:21:44 < Cracki> dutch soccer must be boring. no slant to the field!
2020-09-07T22:21:54 < mawk> didn't they win a world cup or something
2020-09-07T22:22:11 < mawk> but why are yoy all saying soccer
2020-09-07T22:22:13 < boddax> dutch has coccer ckub?
2020-09-07T22:22:16 < mawk> nooo
2020-09-07T22:22:19 < mawk> stop
2020-09-07T22:22:19 < boddax> club
2020-09-07T22:22:23 < Steffanx> Nationalism mawk, rotated your flag 90 degrees
2020-09-07T22:22:25 < mawk> f o o t b a l l
2020-09-07T22:22:31 < mawk> Steffanx :(
2020-09-07T22:22:43 < Cracki> magnetic encoder: as5048, but there's at least one other out there
2020-09-07T22:22:48 < Steffanx> No, its voetbal -> soccer, mawk :P
2020-09-07T22:22:55 < Cracki> they find application in servo controllers
2020-09-07T22:23:01 < Cracki> handegg
2020-09-07T22:23:02 < boddax> ill check
2020-09-07T22:24:58 < boddax> magnetic button but it calculate the position without refereces or only one
2020-09-07T22:25:15 < boddax> once per turn
2020-09-07T22:25:24 < Cracki> those things sense the magnetic field. you'd put a magnet on the shaft that's magnetized like a compass needle
2020-09-07T22:25:39 < Cracki> the IC sits on top of that, along the axis, and senses which way the magnet is pointing
2020-09-07T22:26:47 < Cracki> a reed switch + magnet on that dial to trigger it, would give you no angle at all, just a signal for when the dial is at this position
2020-09-07T22:27:17 < Cracki> can also be done optically. something reflective, and a little light barrier (?) that senses the reflection
2020-09-07T22:27:45 < Cracki> "reflective coupler"
2020-09-07T22:28:19 < Cracki> CNY70 comes to mind
2020-09-07T22:28:21 < boddax> but has only one turn?
2020-09-07T22:28:32 < Cracki> I don't understand the question
2020-09-07T22:29:24 < boddax> it can continue to rotate same direction after the first revolution?
2020-09-07T22:29:45 < boddax> or limited to one turn lije a potentiometer
2020-09-07T22:31:13 < boddax> i think the first with coded wheel is the best 
2020-09-07T22:33:10 < Cracki> no limit
2020-09-07T22:33:22 < Cracki> all of those let it rotate freely
2020-09-07T22:34:01 < Cracki> from the video I get the impression that you have to "hit" the right thread, while the screw is spinning.
2020-09-07T22:34:26 < boddax> maybe cannot found for sale only industry thing
2020-09-07T22:34:42 < Cracki> saw a machining video where they cut threads... there the dude stopped the screw instead of trying to hit the right time
2020-09-07T22:34:53 < Cracki> huh?
2020-09-07T22:35:08 < boddax> yes odd or even to sync the thread multiplke passes
2020-09-07T22:35:27 < Cracki> those things are available https://www.aliexpress.com/item/33033927600.html
2020-09-07T22:35:39 < Cracki> more ghetto/hobbyist: https://www.aliexpress.com/item/4000007479052.html
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2020-09-07T22:36:11 < Cracki> different type, different way of attaching it https://www.aliexpress.com/item/32981250474.html
2020-09-07T22:36:29 < Cracki> raw sensor (reflective) https://www.aliexpress.com/item/32976196292.html
2020-09-07T22:36:44 < boddax> there 2 way to thread back anf forth without disconnect the mail lead srew or use the dial indicator
2020-09-07T22:37:00 < Cracki> sensors have a specific pitch, which needs to match the code strip's pitch (or the code wheel's PPR/angle)
2020-09-07T22:37:36 < boddax> so from any position i get a code from sensor?
2020-09-07T22:37:52 < Cracki> these things are simple
2020-09-07T22:37:53 < boddax> i guess is a number in hex 
2020-09-07T22:37:59 < Cracki> what I posted are incremental encoders
2020-09-07T22:38:07 < Cracki> they give you two bits.
2020-09-07T22:38:30 < Cracki> you can understand it as a binarized sin() and cos() signal
2020-09-07T22:38:56 < boddax> to get angle
2020-09-07T22:39:04 < Cracki> http://robotoid.com/appnotes/circuits-quad-encoding.html
2020-09-07T22:39:41 < Cracki> _absolute_ encoders however have multiple tracks on their wheels/strips, and it's a "gray code", so at any position you get an integer value
2020-09-07T22:40:05 < Cracki> https://eltra-encoder.eu/news/absolute-vs-incremental-encoder
2020-09-07T22:40:44 < boddax> very nice features
2020-09-07T22:41:48 < boddax> for me i guess the best is absolute not invremental
2020-09-07T22:43:14 < boddax> i dont need speed data
2020-09-07T22:43:23 < boddax> enough the pos
2020-09-07T22:43:33 < Cracki> if you have a 100 ppr incremental encoder, and it turns, and you count 100 pulses or 400 edges, the wheel has turned precisely one turn
2020-09-07T22:44:29 < boddax> then i need to split by 4 enough to deal
2020-09-07T22:44:58 < boddax> ill buy this an do some test
2020-09-07T22:46:46 < Cracki> this is an absolute encoder. it looks like it's emitting SPI or something https://www.aliexpress.com/item/32221507202.html
2020-09-07T22:47:12 < boddax> https://www.mouser.it/ProductDetail/Broadcom-Avago/HEDS-9101G00?qs=pQfy5%252BKCabJnt3jDyM7MKA%3D%3D
2020-09-07T22:47:49 < Cracki> make sure the sensor comes with a code wheel, and that you get the instructions for mounting the wheel
2020-09-07T22:48:02 < Steffanx> nRF52805
2020-09-07T22:48:08 < Steffanx> oops, now in the right window
2020-09-07T22:49:40 < boddax> there no docs about outpot signals
2020-09-07T22:49:50 < Cracki> https://docs.broadcom.com/doc/AV02-1867EN
2020-09-07T22:50:04 < Cracki> this will just need gnd, supply, and will output A and B signals
2020-09-07T22:50:44 < Cracki> which are just low or high states, and you feed those to an stm32 timer and have it decode it as a quadrature signal
2020-09-07T22:51:03 < Cracki> or you can bitbang it. these signals will behave like in the pictures above
2020-09-07T22:51:32 < boddax> ok phase difference determine angle
2020-09-07T22:52:00 < Cracki> the waveforms are _always_ shifted by 90 degrees
2020-09-07T22:52:26 < Cracki> you use the signal to figure out if it's spinning forward or backward, and by how much
2020-09-07T22:53:24 < Cracki> stm32 timers can do that for you
2020-09-07T22:53:45 < Cracki> just wire the A and B signals to the timer's first two channels and configure the timer
2020-09-07T23:22:57 < jadew> Steffanx, is that a remake of the Bill & Ted's Excellent Adventure?
2020-09-07T23:23:04 < jadew> or a sequel?
2020-09-07T23:25:00 < Steffanx> i must say i've never seen the first one
2020-09-07T23:25:16 < Steffanx> must be a sequel
2020-09-07T23:25:24 < jadew> could be
2020-09-07T23:25:32 < Steffanx> same guys soooooo...
2020-09-07T23:25:43 < Steffanx> and its just as over the top 
2020-09-07T23:25:58 < jadew> yeah, kind of like Cobra Kai
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2020-09-07T23:41:23 < qyx> so a regulator failed in my chink soldering/rework station
2020-09-07T23:41:42 < qyx> I connected it to https://www.tme.eu/sk/details/tc4s-24r/regulatory-teploty/autonics/
2020-09-07T23:41:47 < jadew> you now need another soldering station to fix the soldering station
2020-09-07T23:41:48 < qyx> works.
2020-09-07T23:42:16 < qyx> but idk what exact thermocouple is inside
2020-09-07T23:42:31 < zyp> qyx, haha, nice
2020-09-07T23:42:33 < qyx> all J/K/L displays bad temp reading, about 2x more
2020-09-07T23:42:58 < jadew> qyx, measure it
2020-09-07T23:43:01 < qyx> actually I have neevr seen a L-type thermocouple
2020-09-07T23:43:48 < qyx> but it is not rtd nor ntc
2020-09-07T23:44:57 < qyx> it has some Holtek chip inside
2020-09-07T23:45:13 < zyp> if it's thermocouple it should be obvious from the wires
2020-09-07T23:46:25 < qyx> should I bite the wire and uhmmmm, nickel!
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2020-09-07T23:46:51 < zyp> no, I mean, it should be obvious that it's a thermocouple
2020-09-07T23:47:49 < zyp> unless they have the cold junction in the handle and just run copper back to the station :p
2020-09-07T23:48:04 < qyx> it is obvious because I measure ~1ohm and it generates voltage when heated
2020-09-07T23:48:55 < qyx> generates current is more correct
2020-09-07T23:50:48 < qyx> https://www.ebay.com/itm/New-Heating-Element-78-415B-for-soldering-station-ZD-912-ZD912-60W-24V/164361384111?hash=item2644b3b0af:g:26wAAOSw5MhfTLOj
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2020-09-07T23:52:24 < qyx> blue/red is J according to germans
2020-09-07T23:53:13 < qyx> but T for america
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2020-09-08T03:03:02 < PaulFertser> Hm, so iMXRT1062 is the new Cortex-M champion? Super performance for real cheap? https://www.pjrc.com/store/teensy40.html What's the catch?
2020-09-08T03:05:10 < PaulFertser> And this one is supposed to cost about a buck: https://www.nxp.com/products/processors-and-microcontrollers/arm-microcontrollers/i-mx-rt-crossover-mcus/i-mx-rt1010-crossover-mcu-with-arm-cortex-m7-core
2020-09-08T03:18:22 < specing> $1 for m7? whoa
2020-09-08T03:22:50 < PaulFertser> Nuts!
2020-09-08T03:23:54 < Cracki> 100 Ku is the catch
2020-09-08T03:24:23 < Cracki> i.e. a pallet of reels
2020-09-08T03:24:35 < Cracki> or a big box maybe
2020-09-08T03:25:28 < Cracki> they're counting on external flash and ram. internal ones are modest.
2020-09-08T03:25:58 < PaulFertser> That teensy board is reasonably cheap, and it has everything needed.
2020-09-08T03:26:15 < Cracki> 10 bucks hmhm
2020-09-08T03:26:17 < Cracki> 20*
2020-09-08T03:26:53 < Cracki> I kinda want it but have no use for it
2020-09-08T03:27:17 < Cracki> much bang few pins
2020-09-08T03:27:45 < Cracki> lots of squealing but little wool
2020-09-08T03:28:49 < Cracki> could be a nice target for some micropython
2020-09-08T03:29:18 < Cracki> that thing is almost as fast as a 20 year old desktop
2020-09-08T03:30:58 < PaulFertser> My desktop was Pentium 200 MMX based. And before that I had a 80386SX desktop with 4 MiB RAM.
2020-09-08T03:32:17 < PaulFertser> https://www.pjrc.com/store/teensy41.html this has more pins exposed for $27.
2020-09-08T03:33:56 < PaulFertser> It's interesting the first target application nxp mentions is "Heating Ventilation, and Air Conditioning" and the second is motor bike ECU. Is HVAC _that_ complex really?
2020-09-08T03:34:33 < PaulFertser> All my desktops had MMU though.
2020-09-08T03:35:08 < Cracki> wtf https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eyuNrm4VK2w
2020-09-08T03:35:25 < Cracki> moar pins moar good
2020-09-08T03:35:46 < Cracki> hvac can't be that complex
2020-09-08T03:36:09 < Cracki> they have a daily calendar of excuses that doubles for target applications
2020-09-08T03:38:53 < upgrdman> R2COM, https://www.reddit.com/r/Whatcouldgowrong/comments/iofvje/firm_footing_and_tight_hold_are_golden_rules/
2020-09-08T03:39:35 < Cracki> oshit
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2020-09-08T09:11:18 < R2COM> nice
2020-09-08T09:11:42 < R2COM> upgrdman is that video from Minneapolis or Oregon? cuz i cant tell
2020-09-08T09:13:15 < upgrdman> dunno
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2020-09-08T11:37:55 < jadew> Steffanx, read the reviews for the Ted & Bill sequel, it sounds atrocious.
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--- Log closed Tue Sep 08 12:26:31 2020
--- Log opened Tue Sep 08 12:26:39 2020
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2020-09-08T13:28:37 < hackkitten> are there any special requirements for pin settings when using USART1 on STM32F042? I'm getting no activity on RX and cannot even seem to send on TX (PA9/10)
2020-09-08T13:29:04 < hackkitten> also having no luck with USART2 on this Nucleo-F042k6 board via the STLink VCP 
2020-09-08T13:29:55 < hackkitten> I can transmit from the MCU fine, but interrupts do not appear to be working, only get an interrupt triggered when the code starts up (with no incoming data?)
2020-09-08T13:30:20 < hackkitten> This is my USART code: https://github.com/MayaPosch/Nodate/blob/master/arch/stm32/cpp/core/src/usart.cpp
2020-09-08T13:32:02 < karlp> isn't c++ meant to make things nice?
2020-09-08T13:32:23 < hackkitten> this is the interrupt-based example code I'm using to drive it: https://github.com/MayaPosch/Nodate/blob/master/examples/stm32/uart/src/uart.cpp
2020-09-08T13:32:30 < zyp> why does the error parts do Rcc::disablePort?
2020-09-08T13:32:35 < zyp> s/parts/paths/
2020-09-08T13:34:06 < zyp> seems to me that you'll turn off a whole gpio block if some code related to one pin of it fucks up
2020-09-08T13:34:14 < zyp> that seems insane
2020-09-08T13:37:50 < hackkitten> I'm using a reference counter, so it only turns it off when there's nothing using that block any more
2020-09-08T13:38:23 < zyp> counter or bitmap?
2020-09-08T13:39:01 < zyp> seems overengineered either way
2020-09-08T13:39:48 < zyp> lots of error handling for something that's not even supposed to be able to fail in the first place
2020-09-08T13:40:14 < PaulFertser> What I'd do is after everything is initialised used a debugger to check all the relevant peripheral register bits, starting with RCC for the GPIO and USART blocks.
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2020-09-08T13:43:00 < srk> RX pin should be configured the same way as TX, maybe you just need set_output_parameters for RX as well
2020-09-08T13:44:41 < karlp> do you really have split pairs on that baord? pa2/pa15?
2020-09-08T13:45:04 < hackkitten> that's how it's wired up with STLink on the Nucleo-F042k6 board, yes
2020-09-08T13:46:55 < hackkitten> PaulFertser: I went with gdb through the registers, yes. RCC, GPIOA, USART CR1, etc. all looked fine
2020-09-08T13:47:21 < hackkitten> I guess I'm just confused about the exact pin settings because everyone out there seems to use different settings, which all are supposed to work
2020-09-08T13:47:26 < jpa-> so, post those? people can read register values, but they don't know how your code is supposed to work
2020-09-08T13:47:27 < hackkitten> even using input mode for RX instead of AF
2020-09-08T13:47:37 < srk> that's required for F1 for example
2020-09-08T13:47:50 < zyp> input mode for RX is a thing on F1 but only on F1
2020-09-08T13:47:57 < hackkitten> I see
2020-09-08T13:48:38 < zyp> F1 has a completely different AF system where AF mode is only used for outputs and remaps are handled separately
2020-09-08T13:48:40 < PaulFertser> hackkitten: all settings are well-defined by the datasheet and the family reference manual, I do not think there's any considerable difference possible. And BTW, with GDB you can also _write_ to any registers, basically you can configure everything needed and send arbitrary data from a halted MCU just by GDB calls.
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2020-09-08T13:54:35 < hackkitten> srk: made the change, doesn't make a difference. USART2 RX interrupt gets called immediately on boot, then nothing happens
2020-09-08T13:55:22 < hackkitten> I'll be calling it quits on this STM32 stuff for now, I think. Been working on this code since the beginning of last month, and I really need a break
2020-09-08T13:55:36 < hackkitten> thanks for the help I guess
2020-09-08T13:56:34 < karlp> well, you turn on that interrupt immediately when you start usart
2020-09-08T13:57:15 < karlp> I think you might benefit from trimming down all the machinery you're trying to build first.
2020-09-08T13:57:20 < jpa-> seems like you have a lot of complex high-level code written before you even have the basics like USART working
2020-09-08T13:57:31 < karlp> you've got two platforms and supprot for 6 uarts when you don't even apper to have any of it owkring.
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2020-09-08T14:15:32 < qyx> wait what
2020-09-08T14:15:35 < qyx> Ada?
2020-09-08T14:15:49 < qyx> are you specing's wife?
2020-09-08T14:16:12 < specing> ?
2020-09-08T14:17:01 < qyx> you are into Ada much, aren't you?
2020-09-08T14:17:24 < boddax> What did dutch football club last nyt ?
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2020-09-08T14:19:09 < boddax> Steffanx actually away
2020-09-08T14:19:17 < specing> qyx: what prompted this? Where do you see Ada?
2020-09-08T14:20:00 < qyx> hackkitten's repository
2020-09-08T14:20:12 < qyx> A light-weight framework for STM32 and other architectures written in C++ and Ada.
2020-09-08T14:20:26 < specing> ah, ok
2020-09-08T14:20:30 < specing> why is uart in C++
2020-09-08T14:20:59 < qyx> maybe tahts the reason it doesn't work as expected
2020-09-08T14:21:02 < specing> hackkitten: wow, you are going to try putting Ada on esp?
2020-09-08T14:21:26 < specing> that is going to be ... interesting
2020-09-08T14:23:15 < hackkitten> specing: yeah, got it mostly working, just need to change some C++ bits to C because the AdaCore toolchain doesn't support C++ in the community edition
2020-09-08T14:24:05 < hackkitten> had written the framework for a workshop that I was scheduled to lead earlier this month
2020-09-08T14:25:27 < Steffanx> Uh what boddax?
2020-09-08T14:25:52 < Steffanx> Oh it seems you won, boddax
2020-09-08T14:28:30 < specing> hackkitten: have you tried getting the fsf arm compilers working?
2020-09-08T14:28:52 < specing> I've tried my code with lucretia's arm toolchain, but I couldn't get it to compile
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2020-09-08T14:30:26 < karlp> robustly, consistently, predictably .... not functional :)
2020-09-08T14:31:04 < specing> karlp: for some reason the usual cross toolchain build scripts refuse to support Ada
2020-09-08T14:31:15 < karlp> definitely a conspiracy
2020-09-08T14:31:23 < specing> so currently the only functional Ada ARM toolchain for me is the AdaCore one
2020-09-08T14:33:26 < karlp> which is fullllllly commercial right?
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2020-09-08T14:35:38 < specing> no
2020-09-08T14:35:42 < specing> its GPL
2020-09-08T14:35:45 < karlp> so yes.
2020-09-08T14:35:50 < specing> ?
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2020-09-08T14:36:10 < karlp> you need a commercial license form them to write non-gpl code isn' tit?
2020-09-08T14:36:11 < specing> you can use it commercially just fine
2020-09-08T14:36:18 < specing> yes
2020-09-08T14:36:28 < hackkitten> if you link with GPL bits, you cannot use it commercially
2020-09-08T14:36:32 < hackkitten> AFAIK that's the only restriction
2020-09-08T14:36:42 < specing> you can, you can use GPL code commercially
2020-09-08T14:36:58 < hackkitten> well yes, but not closed-source
2020-09-08T14:37:02 < specing> yes
2020-09-08T14:37:14 < hackkitten> which is why none of the companies I worked for allowed GPL code anywhere
2020-09-08T14:37:31 < hackkitten> so it makes it commercially non-viable
2020-09-08T14:37:51 < specing> I don't understand why people complain about the state of AdaCore's toolchain
2020-09-08T14:37:58 < specing> they pay for Keil and friends just fine
2020-09-08T14:38:04 < specing> so pay for the commercial license and use that
2020-09-08T14:38:11 < specing> I don't get what the problem is
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2020-09-08T15:13:20 < qyx> so I discovered ST's accel doesn't allow exact timing
2020-09-08T15:13:50 < qyx> no clock input, no measurement trigger input, only a data ready interrupt
2020-09-08T15:14:47 < qyx> it samples at whatever freq it thinks is close to 1100Hz and outputs the samples to a fifo
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2020-09-08T15:16:17 < karlp> I think I remember lolrence complaining abotu that too
2020-09-08T15:16:33 < karlp> specing: well, lots of commercial people _don't_ pay for keil.
2020-09-08T15:16:38 < qyx> also it drifts much when temp changes
2020-09-08T15:16:43 < qyx> https://i.imgur.com/2MAyDfV.png
2020-09-08T15:16:47 < karlp> they use gcc, which is perfectly fine for commercial usage, very unlike adacore
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2020-09-08T15:19:57 < qyx> so I am investigating analol piezo/iepe accels
2020-09-08T15:20:16 < qyx> but whoa 140€ https://www.mouser.sk/ProductDetail/Measurement-Specialties/3038-0050?qs=j%252BgQ1%2F6g%2FTau1U1mxm1gZA%3D%3D
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2020-09-08T15:22:15 < Steffanx> And then the next question. If you heat it to 20C  cool it to -20C and back to 20C. Will it give the same values for the +20C?
2020-09-08T15:23:42 < qyx> I can compare, it is mounted on a big concrete wall
2020-09-08T15:24:31 < specing> karlp: AdaCore toolchain IS gcc
2020-09-08T15:24:47 < Steffanx> At work we had to look into some calibration machine that did those cycles to calibrate over some temperature range, but they did not see this "drift"
2020-09-08T15:25:06 < Steffanx> So the entire calibration wasnt useful
2020-09-08T15:25:16 < Steffanx> Not entirely useful
2020-09-08T15:25:40 < qyx> so it was 20°C the firrst day at 18:44, the other day at 18:32
2020-09-08T15:26:20 < karlp> specing: with special terms that prevent you from making closed source apps unless you license it though
2020-09-08T15:27:07 < specing> they aren't special, its GPL
2020-09-08T15:27:11 < qyx> Steffanx: no, first/second day it was 1.649°/1.659° for the X angle and -1.504°/-1.495° for Y angle
2020-09-08T15:27:25 < qyx> so even repeatability sucks
2020-09-08T15:27:48 < karlp> which is very special compared to gcc from gcc.gnu.org 
2020-09-08T15:28:07 < Steffanx> Heh
2020-09-08T15:29:00 < qyx> and this is a precise IIS3DHHC for inclination sensing
2020-09-08T15:29:23 < qyx> idk how imprecise are common consumer android-targetted accels then
2020-09-08T15:29:49 < karlp> probvably exactly the same, or better ;)
2020-09-08T15:30:47 < mawk> that's a nice drift qyx 
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2020-09-08T15:48:00 < boddax_> qyx r you drift driver with skyline?
2020-09-08T15:51:35 < Steffanx> Hello boddax_ congrats 
2020-09-08T15:52:28 < boddax_> Dont know what i did but thank Steffanx
2020-09-08T15:52:42 < Steffanx> You won
2020-09-08T15:52:56 < boddax_> What my prize?
2020-09-08T15:53:47 < boddax_> Because you dont put in the field rutte
2020-09-08T15:54:41 < boddax_> Next with mexico?
2020-09-08T15:56:55 < Steffanx> Rutte is the best. No free munny
2020-09-08T16:01:10 < boddax_> Hes nick is Van Besten
2020-09-08T16:14:09 < boddax_> I like the girls with piercing especiallu in the tongue with blu color hairs and 9 tail cat whip
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2020-09-08T22:02:25 < Steffanx> boddax: \o/
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2020-09-08T23:37:53 < upgrdman> is boddax china'd or someshit? lol
2020-09-08T23:39:25 < Steffanx> italy, but its the same.
2020-09-08T23:43:37 < antto> chitaly
2020-09-08T23:53:37 < Cracki> lol rewatching ds9, the shapeshifter Odo is an admitted incel virgin
2020-09-08T23:54:04 < Cracki> literal tentacle monster
2020-09-08T23:55:27 < Cracki> lol he's monologuing some mgtow points now
--- Day changed Wed Sep 09 2020
2020-09-09T00:10:26 < Steffanx> Lol. Are you that bored or .. ?
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2020-09-09T00:24:03  * Mangy_Dog cries as odo is dead :(
2020-09-09T00:24:33 < Mangy_Dog> the actor died not too long ago
2020-09-09T00:24:35 < Mangy_Dog> last year?
2020-09-09T00:31:22 < Steffanx> Dont even have a clue.
2020-09-09T00:31:29 < Cracki> a bunch of them died I think... nog too
2020-09-09T00:32:48 < Cracki> nog in september, odo in december
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2020-09-09T01:00:07 < Cracki> so yall know there are fake flash devices (thumb drives, sd cards) from china and elsewhere that report huge capacity but when you actually write to them, it's just a few GB of flash and written round-robin
2020-09-09T01:00:14 -!- c10ud^ [~c10ud@emesene/dictator/c10ud] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds]
2020-09-09T01:00:53 < Cracki> there is a program called h2testw that writes pseudorandom data to defeat any compression a card might do (they contain little processors, cortex m is common)
2020-09-09T01:02:10 < Cracki> every 512 bytes start with an offset (in bytes), and that's the seed to the rest of hte bytes in that sector... from gazing at the bytes, it looks to be a shit PRNG. the first random byte is always the same and for seeds near 0 the following bytes start as 0 or parts of the seed
2020-09-09T01:02:41 < Cracki> since this is a popular program, someone who wanted to trick it could just reverse the binary, figure out their PRNG (looks dumb enough) and detect those test files
2020-09-09T01:03:01 < Cracki> and a lot of people would be fooled
2020-09-09T01:04:24 < Cracki> there's an open source CLI alternative that appears to be even dumber. it's writing 64 bit ints successively, and num[i+1] = random_number(num[i])
2020-09-09T01:05:10 < Cracki> lol:	return arg * 4294967311ULL + 17; 
2020-09-09T01:06:01 < rajkosto> i need a firmware template for stm32f105 that just does HID perfectly, both input and output, that i can just plug my logic into, lets go
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2020-09-09T01:10:39 < qyx> what fir/iir libs do irc EEs use?
2020-09-09T01:11:58 < aandrew> Cracki: wtf
2020-09-09T01:12:04 < Cracki> rajkosto, does cubemx help? does cubef1 come with any useful examples?
2020-09-09T01:12:05 < aandrew> what kind of idiot writes code like that
2020-09-09T01:12:12 < Cracki> qyx, methlab maybe :>
2020-09-09T01:12:14 < rajkosto> i really hate cube generated code
2020-09-09T01:12:21 < rajkosto> and their usb lib is super heavyweight
2020-09-09T01:12:27 < Cracki> that code is a prime number plus something so it's not entirely unreasonable
2020-09-09T01:12:27 < rajkosto> and not very customizable
2020-09-09T01:12:37 < Cracki> still, giving the card the IV means the card _could_ fake it
2020-09-09T01:12:41 < aandrew> cube has evolved so you don't actually have to touch the libs, yet they're filled with >>>>> USER CODE 1 <<<<<< shit
2020-09-09T01:12:51 < Cracki> madlibs coding
2020-09-09T01:13:01 < rajkosto> well main.cpp has tons of USER CODE segments yes
2020-09-09T01:13:02 < Cracki> you can strip all of that shit
2020-09-09T01:13:21 < Cracki> then you're left with HAL and some of their supporting code (board-specific, i.e. your situation)
2020-09-09T01:13:26 < qyx> examining cmsis-dsp
2020-09-09T01:13:33 < aandrew> Cracki: yes, that's exactly what I do every single time I start a project, I strip out 95% of their base shit, add my Makefile and start coding
2020-09-09T01:14:13 < Cracki> qyx, for DSP i'd definitely look at cmsis-dsp but that's for impl, not design. filter design... eh
2020-09-09T01:15:21 < qyx> I mean the filter lib itself, the coefficients will be done in methlab
2020-09-09T01:15:49 < qyx> hrmpfh cmake
2020-09-09T01:15:55 < qyx> such pro
2020-09-09T01:15:59 < Cracki> I saw some "dsp" package from ST, not sure if that's just cmsis-dsp
2020-09-09T01:16:17 < Cracki> should be, st doesn't add to the core
2020-09-09T01:16:52 < Cracki> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Multiply-with-carry_pseudorandom_number_generator
2020-09-09T01:21:37 < karlp> qyx: cmsis-dsp in production here works good.
2020-09-09T01:22:00 < karlp> was very hard for shitty maths me to figure out at first, because it used different terminology than I was used to, so I  had all my co-effs wrong
2020-09-09T01:22:14 < karlp> I model in scipi and have it print out some shit for me to feed into cmsis dsp directly
2020-09-09T01:24:16 < karlp> one tick, let me rip some shit out....
2020-09-09T01:27:25 < Steffanx> aandrew and then you do have to edit the libs outside those blocks because they contain errors.. and each time you regenerate your code, your changes are overwritten. 
2020-09-09T01:27:53 < Steffanx> its a fucking mess
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2020-09-09T01:29:13 < karlp> qyx: https://paste.jvnv.net/view/PwCHP
2020-09-09T01:29:15 < karlp> fwiw.
2020-09-09T01:46:39 < aandrew> Steffanx: no
2020-09-09T01:46:46 < aandrew> 1) I don't regenerate ever
2020-09-09T01:47:22 < aandrew> 2) if I find something wrong in Drivers/HAL/blah/stm32f7xx_hal_shit.c, I copy it to my src/ dir and the makefile prefers mine to the Drivers/ one 
2020-09-09T01:49:07 < Steffanx> Ah yeah but meh 
2020-09-09T01:49:48 < Steffanx> Duplicate files. Must be a joy for someone that has to maintain your code :P
2020-09-09T01:54:53 < aandrew> Steffanx: the makefile explains all
2020-09-09T01:55:02 < aandrew> src and inc have priority over everything else
2020-09-09T01:55:35 < aandrew> although the downside is that you can't have Middleware/Third-Party/Foo/src/someshit.c and src/someshit.c, that's bitten me a couple of times but it has largely not been an issue
2020-09-09T01:56:03 < karlp> how do you do priority like that?
2020-09-09T01:56:10 < karlp> I've never seen anything like that in a makefile
2020-09-09T01:56:28 < aandrew> VDIR does it
2020-09-09T01:56:37 < karlp> it does?
2020-09-09T01:56:58 < aandrew> worksforme
2020-09-09T01:57:18 < aandrew> basically the dependencies are satisfied by searching the directories in order
2020-09-09T01:57:24 < aandrew> so higher up in the list = higher priority
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2020-09-09T01:59:48 < karlp> fair enough I guess, never really tried that sort of thing
2020-09-09T02:00:09 < karlp> the whole "copy in locally and let it replace" soudns horrrrrrible for someone not expecting it though
2020-09-09T02:00:23 < karlp> and you'r enver getting fixes upstream anymore after that point.
2020-09-09T02:00:56 < aandrew> agreed, but as I said I've *never* regenerated
2020-09-09T02:01:53 < aandrew> when there is a firmware refresh and we *do* want to update then I literally copy the cube directories over from the new tarball and git commit -m "updated cube from x.y.z to a.b.c for bugfix $q and $r"
2020-09-09T02:04:15 < karlp> no, I mean, if you copied a cube file into your project once, it doesn't matter if you pdate cube like thtat, it won't ever take the "new" cube file
2020-09-09T02:06:06 < aandrew> sure, it's more of managed process -- either my src/ copy wouldn't be needed as the cube version has the fix I implemented, or my copy adds something cube doesn't have and the fix has to be marged into my code anyway
2020-09-09T02:06:56 < aandrew> the latter would be the case if I had to update cube for the ptpd project I had lsat year -- my copy of stm32f7xx_hal_ethernet.c hacks in a custom PHY 
2020-09-09T02:07:38 < aandrew> since the STM32 RMII was talking to the FPGA but the management interface was talking to the GPHY connected to the FPGA's RGMII 
2020-09-09T02:08:04 < aandrew> and HAL stupidly has no "hook" to be able to do things to a PHY that it doesn't already know about
2020-09-09T02:08:32 < aandrew> but mind you cube's ethernet driver is ass anyway, so no real loss 
2020-09-09T02:10:23 < zyp> my workstuff has similar generated code from TI stuff
2020-09-09T02:11:46 < zyp> regenerating it is no big deal really, when I need to make changes I just look in the git diff afterwards and discard everything except the change I wanted
2020-09-09T02:13:29 < zyp> I also avoid editing the generated code, most stuff I need to change I just recreate outside the directory of generated files
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2020-09-09T02:19:57 < aandrew> yeah revision control is awesome for this
2020-09-09T02:29:01 < karlp> so, I looked at ucos when it was being promoed for free by micrium, but now that it's all apache2 from silabs, anyone else looked at it? https://github.com/SiliconLabs?q=uc&type=&language=
2020-09-09T02:29:01 < aandrew> best is alwasy to not edit anything you're pulling in, and between weak functions and callbacks it's getting better, but still not perfect
2020-09-09T02:29:20 < aandrew> I used ucos2 on a ... sharc? DSP
2020-09-09T02:29:32 < aandrew> there's really little differnce between most RTOSes
2020-09-09T02:29:37 < aandrew> only so many ways to skin that cat
2020-09-09T02:34:49 < aandrew> btw so you don't lose a lot of time searching, here's a good thread on the H7 ethernet fixes: https://community.st.com/s/question/0D50X0000C6eNNSSQ2/bug-fixes-stm32h7-ethernet
2020-09-09T02:37:07 < aandrew> rather than screw about with cache invalidation I just put my DMA buffers in DTCM which is both single-cycle and uncached
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2020-09-09T02:42:05 < aandrew> and https://community.st.com/s/question/0D50X0000BOtfhnSQB/how-to-make-ethernet-and-lwip-working-on-stm32 is probably the best thread on the hows and whys
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2020-09-09T05:54:58 < rajkosto> whats the allowable range for the 1.5k usb resistor
2020-09-09T06:03:45 < Cracki> https://www.usb.org/document-library/usb-20-specification
2020-09-09T06:05:46 < Cracki> related values have +- 5 or 10% tolerance
2020-09-09T06:05:55 < Cracki> haven't found the specs for Rpu yet
2020-09-09T06:06:07 < Cracki> ah there
2020-09-09T06:06:13 < Cracki> 7.1.5.1, 1.5k 5%
2020-09-09T06:06:23 < Cracki> tied to 3.0-3.6 v
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2020-09-09T06:06:31 < rajkosto> cant find 1.5k in my collection for whatever reason
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2020-09-09T06:07:17 < Cracki> it's in the E6 series I think
2020-09-09T06:07:28 < Cracki> 1.47 comes close
2020-09-09T06:08:12 < Cracki> which is 1.5
2020-09-09T06:08:52 < Cracki> 1.425 .. 1.575 k would be the range. if you have anything that isn't 1.5 but in that range I'd be impressed
2020-09-09T06:09:29 < Cracki> 5% tolerance is E24 (1.5 appears first in E6)
2020-09-09T06:10:02 < Cracki> E48 has 1.47 and 1.54, both would work
2020-09-09T06:11:40 < rajkosto> 2k will have to do
2020-09-09T06:13:12 < Cracki> lol
2020-09-09T06:14:15 < Cracki> 2.7 and 3.3 parallel
2020-09-09T06:14:47 < Cracki> 2.2 and 4.7 parallel works too
2020-09-09T06:14:52 < Cracki> pretty close actually
2020-09-09T06:16:42 < Cracki> 680 + 820 series would be spot on
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2020-09-09T07:42:24 < rajkosto> did i get some dead stm32s in this batch too, crap
2020-09-09T07:42:30 < rajkosto> soldered to board, immediate max power draw and LDO overheat
2020-09-09T07:42:35 < rajkosto> stm32 hot
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2020-09-09T08:03:06 < rajkosto> https://images.sshnuke.net/2020-09-09_07-03-00_JpPE0dZDQ.png i didnt beef anything did i
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2020-09-09T09:18:56 < Steffanx> rajkosto: Idk if f103 maybe needs 22 ohm in series with usb dp/dm, some do..
2020-09-09T09:19:09 < rajkosto> never has
2020-09-09T09:20:25 < rajkosto> but it wouldnt short the chip
2020-09-09T09:20:47 < rajkosto> too lazy to desolder and try another atm
2020-09-09T09:21:01 < rajkosto> no overheating without stm32 on pcb
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2020-09-09T10:08:21 < jpa-> Steffanx, rajkosto: it seems to me that the STM32F103C8T6 has the old USBv1 (non-OTG) peripheral, which *does* require 22 ohm series resistor, in addition to the 1.5kohm pull-up
2020-09-09T10:08:49 < rajkosto> never had them
2020-09-09T10:08:49 < jpa-> rajkosto: also, why so complex circuit for the usb pull-up?
2020-09-09T10:08:58 < rajkosto> its the reference one
2020-09-09T10:09:08 < jpa-> which reference?
2020-09-09T10:09:15 < zyp> no, it's shit
2020-09-09T10:09:17 < zyp> don't do it that way
2020-09-09T10:09:29 < rajkosto> stm32 programmer has it that way
2020-09-09T10:09:57 < rajkosto> too late these boards already made like a year ago just now got to soldering onto them :P
2020-09-09T10:10:39 < jpa-> which programmer, link?
2020-09-09T10:11:02 < jpa-> at least STM32F103 discovery board has the series resistors, and has just 1.5kohm pull-up to +3.3V; i would put it to gpio, though.
2020-09-09T10:11:22 < zyp> just leave out R19/R20 and solder the 1.5k across the pads on QU between USB_ACTIVE and USBDP
2020-09-09T10:13:03 < jpa-> rajkosto: regarding the overheating, are you sure you didn't solder it wrong way around? sometimes the stm32 orientation markings can be confusing
2020-09-09T10:15:13 < rajkosto> its why i made sure to make my 3d model right
2020-09-09T10:15:27 < rajkosto> https://images.sshnuke.net/2020-09-09_09-15-24_DWpsOwoP3.png
2020-09-09T10:16:15 < rajkosto> https://images.sshnuke.net/2020-09-09_09-16-13_83VJTcwe5.png
2020-09-09T10:16:32 < rajkosto> thats the way i oriented it, dimple is pin 1
2020-09-09T10:17:15 < jpa-> so are you also buying some crappy clone STM32s from china or why are you suspecting dead ones?
2020-09-09T10:18:29 < rajkosto> yes is a chinese special
2020-09-09T10:18:53 < jpa-> such savings much smart
2020-09-09T10:24:03 < rajkosto> they look ok https://images.sshnuke.net/2020-09-09_09-23-57_RpP1yQCls.jpg
2020-09-09T10:35:11 < Steffanx> rajkosto: have a talk with mangy_dog 
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2020-09-09T15:40:33 < karlp> fucking ST, "revision 14: Removed electrical schematics."
2020-09-09T15:41:38 < mawk> lol
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2020-09-09T15:41:45 < mawk> ask for rev. 13 then
2020-09-09T15:41:50 < mawk> with an innocent tone of voice
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2020-09-09T15:49:20 < karlp> turns out you ened to remove a solder jumper on nucleo64 boards to use external targes if you were using hte nrst pin on them
2020-09-09T15:49:28 < karlp> couldn't for the life of me figure out why nothing was fucking working.
2020-09-09T15:49:50 < PaulFertser> Do you mean some revision removed schematics for a nucleo board?!
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2020-09-09T15:52:27 < karlp> current datasheet for nucleo64 no longer has schematics.
2020-09-09T15:52:48 < karlp> dated 19-Aug-2020
2020-09-09T15:53:12 < karlp> documentation on solder bridges still refers to "as shown on schematics"
2020-09-09T15:53:49 < karlp> no reference to another source.
2020-09-09T15:53:51 < karlp> just gone
2020-09-09T15:54:21 < karlp> anywya, my pressing problem of oocd connecting but not being able to do anything are gone...
2020-09-09T15:54:38 < karlp> I didn't even have conenct_assert_srst set, but the wire was there, so it was always held in reset.
2020-09-09T15:58:24 < Steffanx> Karlp y u no download the schematics in the zip?
2020-09-09T15:59:32 < mawk> yes karlp 
2020-09-09T15:59:37 < mawk> it was in a RM or something
2020-09-09T15:59:40 < mawk> the thing about the sb
2020-09-09T15:59:43 < Steffanx> Schematics. STM32 Nucleo (64-pins) schematics. Its there
2020-09-09T15:59:49 < mawk> right
2020-09-09T15:59:54 < karlp> it's not mentioned in the datasheet anymore where to get them
2020-09-09T16:00:08 < karlp> and that's what I had downloaded to read about the jumpers and using the stlink as external
2020-09-09T16:00:12 < Steffanx> Altidongs files and a pee dee ef
2020-09-09T16:00:14 < karlp> woudl be nice if they incldued a reference.
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2020-09-09T17:55:18 < karlp> cross post if anyone knows gdb python: anyone know why gdb's "info threads" works, but the gdb thread name isn't there? (so the gdb dashboard plugin thing doesn't see them?) https://paste.jvnv.net/view/d89FA
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2020-09-09T18:26:04 < bitmask> w00t pcbs are in production phase
2020-09-09T18:26:06 < bitmask> one is being drilled, the other is applying soldermask
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2020-09-09T19:02:22 < jpa-> karlp: comparing the code of  https://github.com/bminor/binutils-gdb/blob/master/gdb/python/py-infthread.c#L65   and  https://github.com/bminor/binutils-gdb/blob/bc853409cc6887e9d9ea9279b0c2b7e4ccdf230e/gdb/thread.c#L995   and your paste, it seems that the thread name is for some reason in the "extra_info" instead of in the "name" field
2020-09-09T19:03:07 < jpa-> i can't see any way to access extra_info from python though
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2020-09-09T19:30:05 < karlp> ooooh neat.
2020-09-09T19:30:23 < karlp> so... bug in oocd's thread info? or ....
2020-09-09T19:30:42 < karlp> anyone an expert in travis? I want to install libftdi, but only for one of the matrix jobs: https://github.com/karlp/orbuculum/blob/travis-basic/.travis.yml
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2020-09-09T19:47:01 < karlp> hrm, think I might haove it, but now jobs aren't appearing on travis....
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2020-09-09T20:12:50 < jadew> there's a shortage of jobs everywhere
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2020-09-09T20:24:37 < karlp> ok, got it: https://travis-ci.com/github/karlp/orbuculum/builds/183595382
2020-09-09T20:25:12 < jadew> I was against of travis at my previous job
2020-09-09T20:25:19 < jadew> I thought it promotes wasting time
2020-09-09T20:28:38 < karlp> in what manner?
2020-09-09T20:28:49 < karlp> ideally developers would have these all running locally sure,
2020-09-09T20:28:55 < jadew> developers would use it as an excuse to sit on their ass
2020-09-09T20:29:14 < karlp> as opposed to not even noticing until x months later that a feature no longer even compiles?
2020-09-09T20:29:21 < karlp> I mean, sure, hate any tool that helps people do that.
2020-09-09T20:29:22 < jadew> while it would build the whole thing and run all the tests in the world, for their itty bitty changes
2020-09-09T20:30:05 < jadew> sure you notice things don't compile, that's why you have a build script and you run it when you need an actual build
2020-09-09T20:30:23 < karlp> only if people build all variants locally all the time
2020-09-09T20:30:25 < jadew> not when you do a commit that changes a typo in a comment
2020-09-09T20:30:35 < jadew> one variant was heavy enough
2020-09-09T20:30:45 < jadew> even if it only takes minutes, that's still too long
2020-09-09T20:31:21 < jadew> you don't want to slows down development so much, especially when the developers in question are not the most efficient to begin with
2020-09-09T20:31:50 < jadew> anyway, I thought it's a shit idea
2020-09-09T20:32:12 < jadew> if you want testing, you can have that running on demand, as you write stuff
2020-09-09T20:32:13 < Ultrasauce> > being against CI in the year of our lord 2020
2020-09-09T20:32:30 < jadew> and you can target a particular unit, so you get really fast feedback
2020-09-09T20:32:52 < jadew> then when you're finally done, you can do a full build and address any new issues afterwards
2020-09-09T20:32:57 < aandrew> when I was at NDI the CI system only built when you wanted a PR and nobody would approve your PR until it built and passed
2020-09-09T20:33:05 < karlp> Ultrasauce: only good CI is hand rolled jadew's pristine php CI. everything else is garbage
2020-09-09T20:33:08 < karlp> jpa-: thanks, https://sourceware.org/bugzilla/show_bug.cgi?id=26593
2020-09-09T20:33:53 < aandrew> so you could develop and test all you wanted locally, then when you wanted to get it into the main branch you did your PR and (I think it was Jarvis) the CI would do its thing; the PR "Merge" button was disabled until you had a passing test suite and however many approvals
2020-09-09T20:33:55 < upgrdman> https://www.reddit.com/r/KidsAreFuckingStupid/comments/iozb5d/bonus_points_for_the_shirt/
2020-09-09T20:34:35 < aandrew> building after every push or whatnot is idiotic
2020-09-09T20:34:53 < karlp> it can be throttled however you like, doesn't ahve to be on every push
2020-09-09T20:35:19 < karlp> can also only build PRs, or master once a week, or whatever you fucking want
2020-09-09T20:36:55 < jadew> right, that's now what I saw in practice tho
2020-09-09T20:36:57 < aandrew> exactly - I'm just saying it must have been really poorly set up for jadew to push back against it because devs were sitting on their ass
2020-09-09T20:37:15 < Ultrasauce> yeah and practices around it need to be sane
2020-09-09T20:37:35 < Ultrasauce> i certainly love being able to write tested commits on my phone though
2020-09-09T20:37:45 < aandrew> NDI's PR was not bad, Clearpath was pretty good as well, the one manager was REALLY good at mental code review
2020-09-09T20:38:14 < aandrew> Ultrasauce: lol
2020-09-09T20:38:59 < aandrew> the problem with Clearpath's CI was that I'm pretty sure it was running on an overclocked C64. Any build would take at least 40m and had a habit of bombing out in weird ways that had nothing to do with your code
2020-09-09T20:39:30 < aandrew> they also had the absolutely retarded policy that you had to use their laptop on their LAN/VPN
2020-09-09T20:39:46 < aandrew> not even the medical devices companies that I worked at had that kind of policy
2020-09-09T20:40:20 < aandrew> so I just had their laptop VPN'd in and I ssh -D8080'd to the laptop and SOCKS5'd all my requests with the UI changed to Firefox
2020-09-09T20:40:23 < aandrew> er UA
2020-09-09T20:40:33 < aandrew> 'cause fuck that shit
2020-09-09T20:40:42 -!- veegee [~veegee@ipagstaticip-3d3f7614-22f3-5b69-be13-7ab4b2c585d9.sdsl.bell.ca] has quit [Quit: veegee]
2020-09-09T20:41:01 < Ultrasauce> my roommate is stuck with a similar policy, and it turns out that this vpn software they require refuses to function on our /8 home network
2020-09-09T20:41:59 -!- catphish [~user@unaffiliated/catphish] has joined ##stm32
2020-09-09T20:42:51 < karlp> heh, yeah,I've seen shit that hardcoded assumptions about network mask and shit :)
2020-09-09T20:54:15 < sync> rip
2020-09-09T20:54:35 < jadew> did you guys see this? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WuYdsStS1MQ
2020-09-09T20:57:19 < Cracki> nice
2020-09-09T20:59:20 < jadew> I have the same cutter he has
2020-09-09T20:59:33  * jadew feels special
2020-09-09T21:00:47 < jadew> I wonder what holding that does to the joints
2020-09-09T21:01:12 < zyp> the good thing about working for a company too small to have an IT department is that I don't have to deal with bullshit like that
2020-09-09T21:01:32 < zyp> the bad thing is that I became the IT department, so people call me for help with shit
2020-09-09T21:01:39 < jadew> hah
2020-09-09T21:07:08 < Cracki> employ an apprentice or something
2020-09-09T21:07:09 -!- boB_K7IQ [~boB_K7IQ@c-73-254-117-91.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds]
2020-09-09T21:07:29 < jadew> then you only have one person bugging you
2020-09-09T21:07:42 < Cracki> they get paid to learn shit you _maybe_ want done but don't want to do or learn to do yourself
2020-09-09T21:07:54 < Cracki> that too, apprentice becomes cannon fodder (first level support)
2020-09-09T21:08:29 < aandrew> why the fuck would you have a /8 home network, lol
2020-09-09T21:08:56 < Cracki> I saw that offered. some people want ~5 fixed ips at home for business
2020-09-09T21:09:12 < Cracki> 8 - net name - broadcast - router I suppose
2020-09-09T21:09:39 < Cracki> because why not have the router for moar devices behind a nat
2020-09-09T21:10:09 < zyp> Cracki, that's not how it works
2020-09-09T21:10:19 < zyp> a /8 has 16M addrs
2020-09-09T21:10:43 < Cracki> then I think whoever said /8 meant /24 or /56
2020-09-09T21:10:53 < aandrew> yeah, a /30 or /29 is offered often, but still, I'd use 1:1 NAT for those additional IPs and have a RFC1918 network behind the firewall
2020-09-09T21:10:55 < Cracki> I'm pretty sure NOBODY has a /8
2020-09-09T21:11:06 < Cracki> not at home anyway
2020-09-09T21:11:18 < zyp> why not? just use 10.0.0.0/8
2020-09-09T21:11:22 < Cracki> ...
2020-09-09T21:11:37 < aandrew> again though, why? bragging rights?
2020-09-09T21:11:38 < Cracki> do I have to express myself in formal logic
2020-09-09T21:11:43 < Cracki> do you really want that?
2020-09-09T21:11:50 < Cracki> I say typo
2020-09-09T21:11:53 < Cracki> or brain fart
2020-09-09T21:11:58 < aandrew> I'm about halfway through a /24 allocation but I'm also not a typical household
2020-09-09T21:12:07 < zyp> aandrew, idk, seems pointless to me too
2020-09-09T21:12:14 < zyp> but the story wasn't about me
2020-09-09T21:12:18 < aandrew> it won't HURT anything, but really doesn't do shit for you either
2020-09-09T21:12:49 < Cracki> oh I had a brain fart too, /24 v4 would be a 8 bits, a 256 block, not an 8 block
2020-09-09T21:12:50 < aandrew> at some point I'm going to have to learn ipv6, I have it disabled at the firewall
2020-09-09T21:14:08 < aandrew> I also discovered my cable modem connection was too fast for most consumer devices so I ended up using one of my blades. now I"ve got a dual xeon firewall running opnsense
2020-09-09T21:14:13 < Cracki> ah now I get it, 10./8 instead of 192.168./24 for LAN
2020-09-09T21:14:27 < Ultrasauce> yes
2020-09-09T21:14:49 < zyp> the only possible benefit of running 10.0.0.0/8 that I can imagine is that you could let devices pick addrs at random with a low probability of collisions
2020-09-09T21:15:07 < Cracki> or it's less to type
2020-09-09T21:15:13 < zyp> not as low as an ipv6/64, but still
2020-09-09T21:15:21 < zyp> Cracki, but it's not
2020-09-09T21:15:40 < aandrew> "let devices pick addresses at random" -- that's what link-local is for and already well supported
2020-09-09T21:15:55 < Cracki> is it not less to type? it's just "10" instead of "192.168.something"
2020-09-09T21:16:14 < aandrew> lol that's the best reason to pick an /8, fuck yeah
2020-09-09T21:16:29 < Cracki> also it's "different" and I think there exist people who look down on 192.168.x as being "normie"
2020-09-09T21:16:44 < zyp> Cracki, I mean, there's no real difference between 10.0.0.0/8 and 10.0.0.0/24 in that sense
2020-09-09T21:16:50 < zyp> haha
2020-09-09T21:16:50 < Cracki> that too
2020-09-09T21:17:05 < zyp> do I qualify?
2020-09-09T21:17:07 < Cracki> except 8 is one less key to hit vs 24
2020-09-09T21:17:09 < aandrew> ok, 10/8 being faster to type is now the second stupidest reason I've heard today
2020-09-09T21:17:15 < zyp> my home lan is 10.188.0.0/24
2020-09-09T21:17:30 < aandrew> mine's 192.168.77/24
2020-09-09T21:17:44 < Cracki> I can't think of a stupider reason, or a better reason. this is simultaenously the best and stupidest excuse I can come up with
2020-09-09T21:17:54 < zyp> I picked 10.188 because that's 0abc in hex :p
2020-09-09T21:17:54 < aandrew> and only /77 because it doesn't conflict with any of the contract LANs I've had to VPN to yet
2020-09-09T21:18:08 < aandrew> er .77 not /77
2020-09-09T21:19:08 < aandrew> man I need to play with h264/265 decode in FPGA
2020-09-09T21:19:21 < aandrew> my security cameras are overloading my hackintosh for decodes
2020-09-09T21:19:40 < Ultrasauce> if only there were some kind of commodity graphics processor available
2020-09-09T21:20:01 < Cracki> hmmm maybe if I had too many internet of shit devices, or a ton of VMs, I might want a bigger net... or if I wanted a big tiled 16x16 display of "pixelflut" servers, each its own IP
2020-09-09T21:20:15 < aandrew> Ultrasauce: that would mean I have to buy one
2020-09-09T21:20:53 < aandrew> unfortunately my security shit is on osx and apparently the card I do have in it isn't supported by whatever videodecodexpc osx uses
2020-09-09T21:21:05 < Cracki> buy a gpu, it's cheaper and less headache than squeezing it out of an fpga... even if the fpga has fixed function for it
2020-09-09T21:22:39 < aandrew> Cracki: well like I said, I have a decent card in the machine but apparently the drivers don't support decode with apple
2020-09-09T21:22:49 < aandrew> apple has some intel-specific thing that my first-gen i7 doesn't have
2020-09-09T21:22:53 < Cracki> ¯\_(ツ)_/¯ swap/upgrade
2020-09-09T21:23:01 < aandrew> besides, it sounds like an interesting project
2020-09-09T21:23:24 < Cracki> or upgrade the cpu, yes. intel has fixed function decode (and encode too iirc)
2020-09-09T21:23:55 < aandrew> 1080p30 is 60MBps at 8bpp
2020-09-09T21:24:26 < Cracki> how would you approach it, buy IP? buy the spec? take x265 source for inspiration and translate the operations into logic?
2020-09-09T21:24:43 < Cracki> monochrome?
2020-09-09T21:24:49 < Cracki> or would you rather have 24 bits per pixel
2020-09-09T21:25:13 < Ultrasauce> 8bpp due to subsampling
2020-09-09T21:25:46 < Cracki> if you want RGB888, that'd be 1.5 gigabit/s. if you want any chroma subsampling, that's still strictly more than 8 bits per pixel because the luma is 8 bits already
2020-09-09T21:25:55 < Cracki> 12 or 16 bits per pixel effectively
2020-09-09T21:28:21 < Cracki> i.e. yuv 4:2:0 would be ~93 MB/s. eh, roughly same order of magnitude.
2020-09-09T21:30:05 < aandrew> yeah I'd do monochrome
2020-09-09T21:30:36 < Cracki> raccoon eyes only glowing white, not red
2020-09-09T21:31:13 < aandrew> for security I'd actually want to pass through the h264/5 stream as is for recording to disk and then probably "just" decode and subsample down to 640x400 maybe 10fps to the PC for analysis
2020-09-09T21:31:46 < aandrew> don't need color for motion detection, and don't need full frame or rate for it
2020-09-09T21:31:47 < Ultrasauce> oh i'd definitely worked with 8bpp formats but i guess they were blocking ones
2020-09-09T21:32:04 < Cracki> man there's got to be ways to use your gpu for this
2020-09-09T21:32:12 < aandrew> as far as IP -- ideally I'd like to grab an OSS decoder 
2020-09-09T21:32:14 < aandrew> agreed
2020-09-09T21:32:23 < aandrew> actually there's a new contender which looks promising
2020-09-09T21:32:25 < aandrew> let me dig that up
2020-09-09T21:33:03 < Ultrasauce> wtf software decoder is it using that's choking on this anyway
2020-09-09T21:33:05 < Cracki> quick search finds me a h.264 baseline decoder... not sure if your sources use baseline or main/high
2020-09-09T21:33:29 < aandrew> https://github.com/roflcoopter/viseron 
2020-09-09T21:34:08 < aandrew> it's not choking on one stream, it's choking on 6 simultaneous streams
2020-09-09T21:34:17 < aandrew> soon to be 8
2020-09-09T21:36:03 < Cracki> even for running tiny darknet you'd want a gpu... and it's tiny for a reason, might miss detections
2020-09-09T21:36:15 < Ultrasauce> does it really have to be osx? theres plenty of socs that can do ~Gpx/s of video processing
2020-09-09T21:36:18 -!- fenugrec [~fenugrec@97.107.220.18] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds]
2020-09-09T21:43:04 < aandrew> it's just what I'm using right now
2020-09-09T21:43:08 < aandrew> motion detection is tricky
2020-09-09T21:43:43 < Cracki> how so?
2020-09-09T21:44:38 < Cracki> there's a bunch of algorithms, each sucks in its own way. making the results usable isn't trivial.
2020-09-09T21:45:08 < Cracki> badly set up cameras can be a source of headache.
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2020-09-09T22:40:19 < catphish> wonder what my chances are of getting an engine running with a DIY EFI system are, parts arriving tomorrow, no idea what i'm doing :)
2020-09-09T22:53:17 < zyp> nice
2020-09-09T22:56:15 < zyp> I'm still dicking around with mountain removal, been removing the soil covering some of it
2020-09-09T22:56:40 < catphish> mountain removal? that sounds like a LOT of soil to move
2020-09-09T22:56:59 < catphish> and where are going to put the mountain?
2020-09-09T22:57:14 < zyp> these line lasers are not very visible outdoors during daylight, so I were just outside doing some measuring and marking: https://bin.jvnv.net/file/bttXU.jpg https://bin.jvnv.net/file/OtmYm.jpg
2020-09-09T22:57:54 < catphish> that laser looks pretty cool in the dark
2020-09-09T22:58:09 < zyp> yeah, because it's actually visible
2020-09-09T22:58:21 < zyp> :p
2020-09-09T22:58:33 < qyx> wat, I have a red one
2020-09-09T22:58:38 < qyx> green is much more kawaii
2020-09-09T22:58:48 < catphish> so i got this old engine, and i attached a fuel injector to it... https://i.imgur.com/xI5UCnI.jpg
2020-09-09T22:58:55 < zyp> bought the green because it's supposed to have better visibility
2020-09-09T22:59:08 < catphish> tomorrow i've got  fuel pump, pressure regulator and pipes coming
2020-09-09T22:59:21 < upgrdman> zyp, whacha doing? going to bury some bodies in your backyard?
2020-09-09T22:59:30 < catphish> so i'm gonna see if i can program up a fuel injection program good enough to make it run
2020-09-09T22:59:41 < qyx> catphish: what is it for?
2020-09-09T23:00:01 < catphish> qyx: fun
2020-09-09T23:00:06 < qyx> I like your fun
2020-09-09T23:00:17 < qyx> I need such engine for a cogeneration unit
2020-09-09T23:00:20 < zyp> upgrdman, cleaning up the border of my lot
2020-09-09T23:00:34 < upgrdman> cool
2020-09-09T23:00:50 < catphish> qyx: i don't know much about engines, so thought i'd buy a junk one, see how it works, then see if i can upgrade it to EFI, just for learning
2020-09-09T23:01:15 < qyx> don't forget to document all your gathered knowledge
2020-09-09T23:01:27 -!- Miyu [~hackkitte@2a02:6d40:30e0:8501:7566:ef8f:be7b:90e2] has joined ##stm32
2020-09-09T23:01:37 < catphish> i don't think my gathered knowledge is anything new, but i will write up what i can :)
2020-09-09T23:02:03 < zyp> I only own 3m next to my house and 4m behind it, so I want to make it all useful, so I'm gonna line it with a concrete wall and pave it
2020-09-09T23:02:04 < qyx> was that you with the orienteering thing?
2020-09-09T23:02:13 < catphish> qyx: yes
2020-09-09T23:02:32 < catphish> qyx: i do random projects to learn stuff :)
2020-09-09T23:02:32 < Steffanx> imagine you invted a perpetuum mobile and you did not document the process catphish?
2020-09-09T23:02:34 < qyx> did you manage to build it?
2020-09-09T23:03:11 < catphish> qyx: i got the prototype working pretty well
2020-09-09T23:03:13 < Steffanx> *invented
2020-09-09T23:03:29 < qyx> incl time sync?
2020-09-09T23:03:30 < zyp> upgrdman, https://bin.jvnv.net/file/v4ZQG.jpg
2020-09-09T23:03:49 < zyp> basically I'm gonna continue with the wall on the left side and the paving tiles all the way to the back
2020-09-09T23:04:00 < upgrdman> cool
2020-09-09T23:04:07 < catphish> qyx: basically just an stm32, NFC and RTC, i didn't find a good way to do RTC sync so my solution was an android app that can set the time on contact
2020-09-09T23:04:17 < zyp> and the mountain is in the way: https://bin.jvnv.net/file/doRtL.jpg
2020-09-09T23:04:35 < catphish> qyx: so essentially someone needs to tap the device with an android app from time to time
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2020-09-09T23:05:13 < catphish> i found the time was accurate enough for weeks/months at UK summer temperature, so was happy with that solution
2020-09-09T23:06:09 -!- hackkitten [~hackkitte@2a02:6d40:30e0:8501:f5a6:5a:ae94:8578] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds]
2020-09-09T23:06:22 < qyx> I found a possible solution the other day, FM radio RDS
2020-09-09T23:06:45 < qyx> I was investigating time sync options for a battery powered measurement device
2020-09-09T23:07:24 < catphish> qyx: i didn't give much thought to RDS, not sure why not
2020-09-09T23:07:24 < qyx> but considering the cost of Silabs RDS receivers I may as well use a GNSS
2020-09-09T23:07:32 < zyp> wouldn't work here
2020-09-09T23:07:35 < catphish> https://i.imgur.com/wWqc9K5.jpg << this was the final prototype
2020-09-09T23:07:42 < qyx> zyp: why
2020-09-09T23:07:48 < qyx> dab only?
2020-09-09T23:07:50 < zyp> norway killed off FM broadcast a couple of years ago
2020-09-09T23:07:51 < zyp> yeah
2020-09-09T23:08:23 < zyp> but I assume DAB also sends time
2020-09-09T23:08:23 < catphish> FM is still pretty popular in the UK, afaik new cars still use it
2020-09-09T23:08:49 < zyp> it's pretty controversial
2020-09-09T23:09:03 < catphish> perhaps because BBC radio is ubiquitous here, so nobody cares much for more choice
2020-09-09T23:09:46 < zyp> I only listen to radio while driving and my car has DAB, so I didn't care about FM
2020-09-09T23:09:51 < zyp> but lots of people did
2020-09-09T23:10:24 < catphish> i'd care only because my car has FM, it works well, and DAB was traditionally pretty useless here, though i imagine it's improves since launch
2020-09-09T23:10:47 < catphish> we can't all have futuristic e-cars
2020-09-09T23:11:48 < catphish> qyx: basically i had the same problem with all my time sync options, none of them are reliable regardless of placement
2020-09-09T23:12:48 < catphish> my final test was a temperature adjusted RTC, and that just worked well enough that i didn't care about to-the-second accuracy, i figured someone could just manually set the clocks from time to time
2020-09-09T23:14:29 < catphish> zyp: that garden does look like it needs some hard work!
2020-09-09T23:15:28 < zyp> not looking forward to move the pieces after I've broken up the mountain :)
2020-09-09T23:16:11 < catphish> zyp: my place is actually looking really good right now, had time to work on it while we've been locked down! https://i.imgur.com/Szeq20E.jpg
2020-09-09T23:16:26 < zyp> nice :)
2020-09-09T23:16:38 < zyp> and yeah, that's why I've got time now too
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2020-09-09T23:17:01 < Steffanx> such nice house catphish
2020-09-09T23:17:16 < catphish> thnaks :)
2020-09-09T23:18:30 < catphish> trying to encourage more wildlife to live in the garden https://i.imgur.com/PvhhIit.jpg https://i.imgur.com/WNTi6OD.jpg
2020-09-09T23:20:17 < catphish> Steffanx: i'm just glad i bought it before the work-from-home rush caused house prices in my rural area to go mental
2020-09-09T23:20:58 < qyx> how much is a common house in the UK?
2020-09-09T23:21:13 < qyx> and land per 1m^2?
2020-09-09T23:21:20 < qyx> or furlong squared or whatever you use in the UK
2020-09-09T23:21:23 < catphish> average UK house price is apparently £231,855 GBP
2020-09-09T23:22:45 < qyx> and you paid..?
2020-09-09T23:23:21 < catphish> mine was 355,000, 6 years ago, it's probably worth a fair bit more now
2020-09-09T23:23:58 < qyx> O-o crazy
2020-09-09T23:24:04 < catphish> houses here are normally pretty cramped
2020-09-09T23:24:32 < catphish> an average house is attached to other houses and comes with a garden about the same size as the house itself
2020-09-09T23:26:05 < catphish> i rather like empty green space, so i pay more to get the attached land, despite being traditionally green and beautiful, substantial land attached to houses is fairly rare here because houses are build in close clusters for some baffling reason
2020-09-09T23:26:38 < zyp> baffling? it's because it's cheaper to build denser
2020-09-09T23:26:48 < qyx> here it is the other way around
2020-09-09T23:27:03 < qyx> for older houses it is rare to be built in clusters
2020-09-09T23:27:16 < qyx> a single house has about 500m^2 of land
2020-09-09T23:27:19 < zyp> shit also scales with population density
2020-09-09T23:27:26 < catphish> older houses here have more land
2020-09-09T23:27:51 < zyp> population density was lower when they were built :p
2020-09-09T23:27:59 < catphish> indeed :(
2020-09-09T23:28:17 < qyx> it depends, here the population was more spread in the past
2020-09-09T23:28:26 < qyx> now it is concentrated in a few bigger towns
2020-09-09T23:28:35 < qyx> I would not call them cities
2020-09-09T23:29:04 < qyx> and it is not uncommon for village houses to be about 50% empty
2020-09-09T23:30:01 < zyp> yeah
2020-09-09T23:30:09 < catphish> qyx: well, in the uk at least covid has had a sudden opposite effect, everyone is rushing out the the cities now they are allowed to work remotely
2020-09-09T23:31:32 < catphish> 30% price rise in my rural village in the last 6 years
2020-09-09T23:32:29 < catphish> my next big project is building a garage :) right now i just have a crappy storage shed
2020-09-09T23:32:44 < catphish> want a proper building to do car projects in
2020-09-09T23:37:17 < qyx> we are in the zyp phase
2020-09-09T23:37:24 < qyx> cracking and removing rocks
2020-09-09T23:37:33 < zyp> :)
2020-09-09T23:37:35 < zyp> how?
2020-09-09T23:38:23 < qyx> with hand tools mostly
2020-09-09T23:38:39 < zyp> yeah?
2020-09-09T23:39:24 < qyx> it was preprocessed with a hydraulic hammer on a excavator
2020-09-09T23:39:50 < zyp>  ah, so pre cracked already
2020-09-09T23:39:56 < qyx> or hydraulic breaker or how is ti called
2020-09-09T23:39:59 < zyp> some of mine are too
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2020-09-09T23:44:21 < catphish> zyp: what's the plan? clear some rocks and treed and build a proper garden area?
2020-09-09T23:44:48 < zyp> I'm gonna pave it all
2020-09-09T23:44:56 < qyx> :D
2020-09-09T23:47:50 < zyp> the area behind the house isn't really suited for a nice lawn, so I've opted to not bother with grass
2020-09-09T23:48:53 < zyp> paving it gives me an area I can use as outdoor workspace or something
2020-09-09T23:50:59 < catphish> outdoor pizza cafe area :)
2020-09-09T23:51:21 < catphish> i wanna build an outdoor pizza oven one day
2020-09-09T23:51:30 < zyp> it's pretty secluded behind the house
2020-09-09T23:52:11 < zyp> house on one side, rock wall on the other, tall fence without gaps on the third
2020-09-09T23:53:04 < zyp> might build a pool at some point
2020-09-09T23:56:42 < catphish> looking forward to plugging in this thingemy https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/APS-Fuel-Injection-Pump-0580464070-OTP017/301750257039
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2020-09-09T23:57:46 < karlp> aandrew: hrm, I think one of the things that made me want to look at ucos again isn't the os, I agree, there's only so many ways for that, but more the middle ware they have with it now, vs stuff that used to be "paid extra" even with freertos, like the usb device and host, and all the rest of the cruft
2020-09-09T23:57:53 < jadew> uhm... what happened to BrainDamage?
2020-09-09T23:58:56 < Steffanx> he timeouted and never came back
2020-09-09T23:59:14 < Translat-Embedde> which program is better for measuring or read data from sensors for example accelerometers
2020-09-09T23:59:18 < jadew> that's weird...
2020-09-09T23:59:46 < jadew> Translat-Embedde, you need hardware too
--- Day changed Thu Sep 10 2020
2020-09-10T00:00:16 < jadew> Steffanx, he didn't have any activity last month
2020-09-10T00:00:24 < jadew> (other than being connected)
2020-09-10T00:01:07 < Translat-Embedde> i know that i need hardware but i don't know how values or parameters sensor have
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2020-09-10T00:02:44 < Translat-Embedde> for example this sensor https://www.sparkpcb.com/sensors/adxl335-triple-axis-accelerometer-sensor-analog-out-for-arduino.html and discovery board https://stm32f4-discovery.net/stm32f429-discovery/
2020-09-10T00:04:35 < Translat-Embedde> i want try read data (values, parameters) from sensor throught discovery board stm32f429zi
2020-09-10T00:05:27 < Translat-Embedde> jadew:which hardware i need?
2020-09-10T00:06:38 < qyx> lookup a datasheet for your chip
2020-09-10T00:06:40 < karlp> oh, a reason to use 10/8, instead of 192.168/16 (iot'
2020-09-10T00:07:01 < karlp> is to explicitly and quickly recognize when you'r eon _your_ network, vs some "generic" wifi router thingy
2020-09-10T00:07:42 < zyp> how so?
2020-09-10T00:08:03 < qyx> all default settings I have ever seen are from 192.168.x.x
2020-09-10T00:08:07 < Translat-Embedde> i can see on youtube that somebody use arduino genuine to read data but i want to know if stmicroelectronics doesn't have any programs or utilities or anything else
2020-09-10T00:09:30 < aandrew> karlp: I admittedly haven't checked out their middleware
2020-09-10T00:13:11 < karlp> yeah, me either, 
2020-09-10T00:13:20 < karlp> zyp: just the visible difference of 192.168.1.x vs 10.x
2020-09-10T00:13:30 < zyp> ah, fair
2020-09-10T00:14:07 < zyp> thought you were talking about benefit of a /8 vs /24
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2020-09-10T00:38:28 < Steffanx> Jadew see private message ;)
2020-09-10T00:42:53 < qyx> so lptim has no input cature?
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2020-09-10T00:44:57 < qyx> this damned accel has no possibility to sync its sampling time
2020-09-10T00:45:13 < qyx> and L4 lptim has no capture mode
2020-09-10T00:45:56 < qyx> so my TCXO as LSE is about as usable as not being there at all
2020-09-10T00:46:22 < qyx> apparently the only thing I can do is to free-run the lptim
2020-09-10T00:47:07 < qyx> and capture its value in a accel data ready interrupt to know what time did it take exactly to do n samples at its ~~1100Hz sampling rate
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2020-09-10T00:50:32 < qyx> how would you extend the width of a 16bit timer to get correct readings?
2020-09-10T00:52:23 < qyx> I mean, increment a 16bit number of revolutions in an update event interrupt, but how to read the two values?
2020-09-10T00:52:55 < qyx> read revolutions, counter value, revolutions again, compare the two readings and get an concatenated 32bit result?
2020-09-10T00:54:58 < Cracki> you wanna detect the overflow
2020-09-10T00:55:17 < Cracki> so I guess test if c1 < c0
2020-09-10T00:55:37 < Cracki> one of the values needs reading twice
2020-09-10T00:55:50 < Cracki> overflow increments one and wraps the other
2020-09-10T00:56:31 < Cracki> unless the timer peripheral has a chaining mechanism and some way to trigger an atomic read of both registers
2020-09-10T00:57:14 < qyx> mhm idk if it has a trgo
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2020-09-10T00:57:39 < qyx> but if it is a single one in the chip and is in the backup domain, I would guess no
2020-09-10T00:57:54 < Cracki> if you're gonna increment a variable instead of chain some timers, no worries
2020-09-10T00:58:46 < qyx> theres still a race condition possible
2020-09-10T00:59:21 < qyx> hm, not if the timer update interrupt has higher priority
2020-09-10T00:59:30 < qyx> than the data ready exti
2020-09-10T00:59:59 < qyx> anyway, fukit
2020-09-10T01:00:28 < qyx> because I would expect theres a possibility to do exact timing with an precise, high accurate, awesome, wow accelerometer
2020-09-10T01:01:07 < qyx> but no, it is running at whatever sampling frequency it considers appropriate
2020-09-10T01:02:15 < upgrdman> anyone here played with very fast ADCs? i'd like to sample up to 8 channels, at 100-200MSps (shared between the 8 channels) ... seems like this $78 microchip part is a decent option but not sure  https://www.digikey.com/product-detail/en/microchip-technology/MCP37221-200E-TE/150-MCP37221-200E-TE-ND/11588590
2020-09-10T01:03:01 < Cracki> upgrdman, ask the zonenberg?
2020-09-10T01:03:11 < upgrdman> good idea
2020-09-10T01:03:25 < Cracki> he might be an order of magnitude beyond your requirements
2020-09-10T01:08:27 < Streaker> wouldn't it be easier to have 8 ADCs?
2020-09-10T01:09:21 < jadew> don't think so
2020-09-10T01:09:42 < jadew> more routing, more passives, more price
2020-09-10T01:09:54 < ds2> LVDS output?
2020-09-10T01:10:06 < upgrdman> Streaker, well i'd like the option to turn off channels and up the rate. like that microchip adc can do 1ch@200MSps, or 2/4/8 and half/quarter/eighth speed
2020-09-10T01:10:34 < upgrdman> and ya, routing would be annoying for 8 14bit adcs
2020-09-10T01:10:47 < Streaker> ok. $78 seemed a bit stratospheric to me.
2020-09-10T01:11:09 < upgrdman> well for 14bit >=100MSps they get pricey :) that low-end-oscope territory
2020-09-10T01:11:20 < upgrdman> well fuck, even oscopes are usually just 8bit
2020-09-10T01:13:17 < upgrdman> hmm, 16bit version is "only" $119, cool
2020-09-10T01:19:17 < upgrdman> 0.65mm pitch BGA... hmm, i wonder how hard that is to DIY solder with a stencil + hot air station
2020-09-10T01:19:32 < jadew> doesn't sound that bad
2020-09-10T01:19:52 < Cracki> how many balls?
2020-09-10T01:19:59 < upgrdman> 121
2020-09-10T01:20:22 < upgrdman> (most are power)
2020-09-10T01:21:19 < Cracki> 11x11 meaning ~5-6 rings, unless it's got a bald spot in the middle
2020-09-10T01:21:36 < Cracki> routing sounds fun
2020-09-10T01:21:53 < Cracki> oh wait I could just open the fucking datashit
2020-09-10T01:22:32 < upgrdman> pg5 https://ww1.microchip.com/downloads/en/DeviceDoc/20005322E.pdf
2020-09-10T01:22:43 < upgrdman> middle is just psu
2020-09-10T01:23:18 < aandrew> qyx: what're you trying to do
2020-09-10T01:23:22 < Cracki> oh that looks relaxing
2020-09-10T01:24:13 < upgrdman> i suppose if i'm going to spend $200 for a pcb+this+fpga+usb3fifo i better try an enginigger it. damn, that means i actually have to READ the datashits :/
2020-09-10T01:25:16 < upgrdman> and somehow i know i'm going to fuck up rev1 design :)
2020-09-10T01:26:32 < jadew> can't you have china to assemble it?
2020-09-10T01:26:53 < jadew> looking at the datasheet it doesn't seem that great
2020-09-10T01:27:14 < upgrdman> i guess i could, but i only need 1 board to test for now, might as well DIY it
2020-09-10T01:27:45 < upgrdman> whats not so great? the adc spec's? ya, its nothing special, but i don't want to pay anal-devices prices for this either
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2020-09-10T01:27:49 < jadew> 0.65 pitch and 0.4 mm ball diameter, that's 0.25 mm distance between them
2020-09-10T01:28:53 < jadew> no, I was talking about the pitch, it sounded fine when you mentioned it by itself, but if you look at the other dimensions too, it puts it into perspective
2020-09-10T01:29:49 < upgrdman> i guess i should find some motherboards in the trash and see how had it is to hot-air desolder/solder some small BGAs
2020-09-10T01:30:24 < jadew> good idea
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2020-09-10T02:10:18 < aandrew> damn, he left
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2020-09-10T04:34:43 < upgrdman> analog pros: with a differential input/output op amp, if the op amp is powered with 3.3V and GND (not a bipolar supply) can the inputs go negative without damaging things? guessing no.
2020-09-10T04:35:39 < upgrdman> for example, i want to take an input signal that could be from -15V to +15V, divide it down to -1.5V to +1.5V, and convert it into a differential signal that can drive a high-speed ADC.
2020-09-10T04:36:04 < upgrdman> (or divive it down to whatever range the input circuit needs)
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2020-09-10T05:45:02 < aandrew> the answer is no, you're right
2020-09-10T05:45:09 < aandrew> the input ranges are still limited by the power supply
2020-09-10T05:45:53 < aandrew> I didn't do super high freq ADC like ou mentioned above but I did do 5x 15MSPS feeding an FPGA
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2020-09-10T06:50:49 < upgrdman> fuck. this board is gonna need 1V2, 1V8, and -1V8 ... i wonder if theres any regulators designed to do all 3
2020-09-10T06:52:21 < englishman> y
2020-09-10T06:53:07 < upgrdman> adc needs 1v2 and 1v8
2020-09-10T06:53:20 < upgrdman> front end needs +/- 1.65 to 2.5V
2020-09-10T06:53:59 < upgrdman> whats a cheap way to get negative voltage from usb's 5v? charge pump?
2020-09-10T06:54:48 < englishman> charge pump then ldo after yes
2020-09-10T06:55:33 < englishman> assuming it's going to some sensitive but low current part like an opamp
2020-09-10T06:56:04 < upgrdman> ya op amps
2020-09-10T07:00:13 < upgrdman> lm1117 wont do 1v2 :(
2020-09-10T07:03:28 < Streaker> try a different manufacturer?
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2020-09-10T07:03:58 < Streaker> AMS1117 does 1.2V
2020-09-10T07:04:39 < englishman> lm1117, what is it 1117? last i checked it was 2020
2020-09-10T07:05:08 < englishman> maybe dont use 900 year old ldos
2020-09-10T07:10:36 < upgrdman> englishman, whats modern common LDO?
2020-09-10T07:14:22 < englishman> i like ti's tps7axx
2020-09-10T07:15:01 < englishman> but really there are thousands of ldos
2020-09-10T07:15:21 < englishman> get in touch with a ti or analog fae
2020-09-10T07:17:05 < upgrdman> k
2020-09-10T07:17:22 < upgrdman> heh, one of my coworkers used to work at TI, but not in that department
2020-09-10T07:19:53 < englishman> this latest ti fae i have characterized like 800 different ldos during his internship
2020-09-10T07:20:01 < englishman> pretty handy guy.
2020-09-10T07:21:16 < upgrdman> cool
2020-09-10T07:21:49 < englishman> noone at ti seems able to answer msp430 questions tho.
2020-09-10T07:24:12 < upgrdman> lol
2020-09-10T07:24:23 < upgrdman> tps7a90 looks decent
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2020-09-10T11:20:44 < qyx> aandrew: phase correct vibration measurement
2020-09-10T11:21:06 < qyx> apparently impossible with this accel
2020-09-10T11:24:58 < jpa-> qyx: seems pretty common for many accelerometers to have their internal sampling rate that cannot be affected
2020-09-10T11:33:02 < jpa-> qyx: regarding extending 16-bit timer using update interrupts, i've done it like this:  http://paste.dy.fi/53b   
2020-09-10T11:34:01 < jpa-> which works even if a high-priority interrupt blocks tim14 interrupt handler for up to 65ms
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2020-09-10T11:45:11 < Steffanx> Tim14_interrupt cannot run right after systime = TIM14->CNT + 65536 mr jpa- ?
2020-09-10T11:47:03 < jpa-> Steffanx: hmm, depends on if there is any cortex-m architecture where interrupts would get delayed like that
2020-09-10T11:47:42 < jpa-> AFAIK the interrupt stacking starts executing immediately when UIF gets set, or if the interrupt is disabled, there is nothing re-enabling it there in between
2020-09-10T11:48:46 < jpa-> i guess one could add some second check on UIF there to see if someone has cleared it
2020-09-10T11:50:39 < jpa-> maybe there is a bit of race window there where UIF might get set on the exact clock cycle when the load of TIM14->SR is executed
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2020-09-10T11:56:57 < Steffanx> Hm
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2020-09-10T11:59:59 < jpa-> an all-hardware alternative is to chain timers, and then do the    do { high = TIM2->CNT; low = TIM1->CNT; } while (high != TIM2->CNT);   to get consistent reading; avoid having to have an update interrupt, but only gets 16 bits extra
2020-09-10T12:03:41 < karlp> and here's me jus doing "return TIM_CNT(TIM3) << 16 | TIM_CNT(TIM2);"
2020-09-10T12:04:02 < karlp> what am I missing?
2020-09-10T12:04:13 < karlp> I'mnot using interrupts, just chained timers and read the cnt registers on demand
2020-09-10T12:04:32 < jpa-> karlp: what if TIM2 overflows after you have read TIM3?
2020-09-10T12:04:38 < karlp> I guess.
2020-09-10T12:05:10  * karlp makes a note, there's some timing issues occasionalyl that I thought were on the host side, but could be here too I suppose :)
2020-09-10T12:05:41 < jpa-> after implementing any of these, it's a good idea to run     for(;;) { new_time = get_time(); assert(new_time > old_time); old_time = new_time; }   overnight :)
2020-09-10T12:06:11 < karlp> heh
2020-09-10T12:06:24 < karlp> nice trick
2020-09-10T12:07:01  * karlp makes a more serious note, shoudl be easy to check....
2020-09-10T12:07:40 < karlp> probably need the same do while loop on zeroing too.
2020-09-10T12:07:54 < Steffanx> :)
2020-09-10T12:08:53 < jpa-> on zeroing, you can zero low part first and high part after and should be fine
2020-09-10T12:09:59 < jpa-> if ARM had just had the sense to make systick 64-bit upcounter with a compare register :)
2020-09-10T12:11:52 < karlp> true, though for some reason, with a 50/50 chance of getting that right, I've done it high first.  for.... no reason at all I cna tell...
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2020-09-10T12:29:54 < karlp> anyone remember the url of that site selling bags of crystals for mounting your audio gear on?
2020-09-10T12:32:38 < karlp> https://www.machinadynamica.com/machina31.htm if anyone else was looking
2020-09-10T12:35:37 < jpa-> karlp: i don't think those crystals will solve your timing problems :)
2020-09-10T12:36:11 < karlp> nah, talking to someone else about a switch mode supply for some audio wankery
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2020-09-10T13:47:17 < karlp> fuckin orbuculum people don't really seem to understand git.
2020-09-10T13:47:23 < karlp> project seems to be going backwards not forwards.
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2020-09-10T14:22:06 < Steffanx> What where Mr karlp ? Github issues?
2020-09-10T14:24:55 < Steffanx> Issues page it is
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2020-09-10T14:59:26 < mawk> PaulFertser: I can use oocd to write to eeprom of any stm32 ?
2020-09-10T14:59:56 < mawk> or it depends
2020-09-10T15:03:40 < PaulFertser> mawk: I used a simple Tcl operation to write to eeprom on stm32l15x
2020-09-10T15:03:50 < PaulFertser> mawk: what part do you have in mind?
2020-09-10T15:03:58 < mawk> some l1
2020-09-10T15:04:00 < mawk> I forgot the number
2020-09-10T15:04:07 < mawk> I know that 2 years ago my colleagues had to patch oocd to make it work
2020-09-10T15:04:14 < mawk> they never made a PR upstream sadly
2020-09-10T15:04:20 < mawk> let me try to read the marking
2020-09-10T15:05:03 < mawk> L151 if my eyes don't cheat me
2020-09-10T15:05:08 < mawk> so the same as yours
2020-09-10T15:05:31 < PaulFertser> mawk: when I was working with that no driver existed but since I needed to change just a single value there I never bothered much and just implemented it in Tcl.
2020-09-10T15:05:50 < PaulFertser> mawk: do you need that code (few mww commands)?
2020-09-10T15:05:58 < mawk> I guess yeah
2020-09-10T15:06:07 < mawk> well it's not just a value that I need, but it's not kilobytes
2020-09-10T15:06:15 < mawk> I can just do a delta or something
2020-09-10T15:07:24 < PaulFertser> mawk: https://paste.debian.net/1163298/
2020-09-10T15:08:04 < PaulFertser> mawk: basically, an eeprom write is just a memory write but before that you need to unlock it.
2020-09-10T15:08:21 < mawk> yeah
2020-09-10T15:08:33 < mawk> and also you can write byte per byte
2020-09-10T15:08:42 < mawk> but what can do more can do less
2020-09-10T15:08:42 < PaulFertser> mawk: so I guess you can take line 4 and line 5 and then use "write_image" command (it's just uploading anything to memory-mapped region)
2020-09-10T15:09:00 < mawk> line 6 was just you changing your value ?
2020-09-10T15:09:04 < mawk> thanks
2020-09-10T15:09:27 < PaulFertser> hm, not write_image let me look it up
2020-09-10T15:09:40 < PaulFertser> load_image it is mawk 
2020-09-10T15:10:23 < PaulFertser> No promises it'll work but I'd give it a try.
2020-09-10T15:10:46 < mawk> perfect, thanks
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2020-09-10T15:10:55 < mawk> because otherwise the patch they made was substantial, with C code changes and all
2020-09-10T15:11:01 < mawk> but if it can be done in tcl then perfect
2020-09-10T15:11:11 < PaulFertser> Can't tell before you try
2020-09-10T15:11:20 < mawk> I don't see why it wouldn't work
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2020-09-10T15:33:13 < GenTooMan> something for people to ponder (or laugh) about http://www.ganssle.com/blog/blog/heart-rate.html
2020-09-10T15:37:29 < PaulFertser> I'd say this is worth maximum a tweet, not a real blog post.
2020-09-10T15:39:26 < karlp> gotta keep that weekly post up osmehow
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2020-09-10T16:49:44 < englishman> blogs are the best
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2020-09-10T17:12:42 < Steffanx> Twatter blogs.
2020-09-10T17:13:14 < karlp> fucking hate people writing blog posts as ordered tweets.
2020-09-10T17:13:21 < karlp> ffs, write your blog post, tweet the link.
2020-09-10T17:20:58 < Steffanx> Haha. Lol. 
2020-09-10T17:23:24 -!- catphish [~user@unaffiliated/catphish] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds]
2020-09-10T17:27:18 < dongs> hmm
2020-09-10T17:38:04 < dongs> god damn fucking RSComponents.
2020-09-10T17:38:08 < dongs> their search sucks, sure
2020-09-10T17:38:15 < dongs> but then there's real FUCK YOU
2020-09-10T17:38:25 < dongs> they don't show local vs 'stock in uk'
2020-09-10T17:38:29 < dongs> unless you click a product page
2020-09-10T17:38:40 < dongs> im looking for a fucking standard dual optocoupler that I can get shipped from japan tomorrow
2020-09-10T17:38:54 < dongs> and of course tehre's 20 of them and none of htem are in stock and I have to fucking click each one to find that out
2020-09-10T17:38:58 < dongs> fuck rs
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2020-09-10T17:44:38 < GenTooMan> well unfortunately you are the victim of "turds of the internet". That is people with bots roving over other peoples data to collect information. So now you get captcha moments because you block google.com on websites that aren't google. due to the fact some "turd" made a bot to mine a vendors site for some inane reason. So don't blame RS it's more likely some script kiddie doing what he was told by an even bigger turd.
2020-09-10T17:45:05 < dongs> no, they've been doing this for at least a decade.
2020-09-10T17:45:15 < dongs> i ordered something from them 10 years ago without paying attention
2020-09-10T17:45:21 < dongs> was confused when it didnt arrive next day
2020-09-10T17:45:25 < dongs> go to check order status
2020-09-10T17:45:34 < dongs> the item was marked as "in stock, not in japan"
2020-09-10T17:45:46 < dongs> back then it was a tiiiiiiny green text under the item price box
2020-09-10T17:45:52 < dongs> now its huge green marker above it
2020-09-10T17:46:02 < dongs> but the point is you cant fucking filter by this in search results
2020-09-10T17:46:32 < dongs> fuckign finalyl found MOCD207M in stock
2020-09-10T17:46:54 < dongs> gonna spend 12 bucks on 10 of them 
2020-09-10T17:49:11 < dongs> back to sleep
2020-09-10T17:49:34 < GenTooMan> sleep is mostly good. If you are in Nippon that means it nigh unto midnight.
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2020-09-10T18:23:58 < englishman> so I counteroffered but they didn't come up even one cent, so I declined and stated what my threshold was. they came up again but it was below what I said my threshold was by $500. so I declined. pretty fun tho.
2020-09-10T18:24:27 < englishman> would have been a 20% raise
2020-09-10T18:24:56 < englishman> and cool projects
2020-09-10T18:25:09 < englishman> but, very different work environment
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2020-09-10T18:43:24 < Steffanx> And more work hours mr englishman ?
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2020-09-10T19:16:17 < englishman> yes Steffanx
2020-09-10T19:16:33 < englishman> and the risk that those 40 hours become 45 become 50
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2020-09-10T20:12:08 < upgrdman> TIL how to hunt https://www.reddit.com/r/WTF/comments/ippi8c/catching_a_deer_with_an_eagle/
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2020-09-10T20:57:37 < Cracki> how to hunt mice with a monitor lizard https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jqOh8uQ5Tg0
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2020-09-10T21:18:21 < jadew> that looks so much more efficient than a cat
2020-09-10T21:18:33 < Cracki> his mink are quick too
2020-09-10T21:18:45 < Cracki> not as quick as this fella. he's a little lighter than a mink
2020-09-10T21:20:03 < Cracki> the most noteworthy thing is that he managed to train a lizard to hunt mice for killing, not eating ("spit them out" again or switch to a live one). people considered that a hard task with little chance of working out well
2020-09-10T21:21:39 < Cracki> yeet https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-iFOVi0vJGU
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2020-09-10T22:30:30 < bitmask> when you download the production files from jlcpcb it has files with the layer name but no extension, any idea what they could be?
2020-09-10T22:31:15 < jpa-> just normal gerbers?
2020-09-10T22:31:49 < bitmask> yea it might be looking at it in textedit
2020-09-10T22:32:03 < zyp> usually the layer name is the extension
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2020-09-10T22:35:26 < ds2> run file on it?
2020-09-10T22:37:48 < bitmask> gerbview was able to open it
2020-09-10T22:38:02 < bitmask> (kicad I think)
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2020-09-10T23:16:46 < qyx> tcxo as LSE + LPTIM works \o/
2020-09-10T23:19:45 < qyx> Update Event (a) Available only on STM32L41xxx and STM32L42xxx devices.
2020-09-10T23:19:46 < qyx> meh
2020-09-10T23:20:34 < qyx> so how to detect counter overflow
2020-09-10T23:20:37 < qyx> compare match?
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2020-09-10T23:30:12 < zyp> heh
2020-09-10T23:34:10 < mawk> «But I am wrong, this organism does not have a heart looking at all the world crisis it has caused. Or does it? Maybe it is showing some new ways through a hard lesson? Only if we get our act together in this pandemic.»
2020-09-10T23:34:41 < mawk> he who does dream of being a poet isn't always one
2020-09-10T23:35:24 < specing> qyx: what, there's no overflow event?!
2020-09-10T23:35:27 < specing> counter reload?
2020-09-10T23:38:43 < qyx> apparently no on L432
2020-09-10T23:52:16 < Cracki> gawd all the fucking animations on st's website
2020-09-10T23:54:02 < Cracki> so this... https://www.st.com/resource/en/reference_manual/dm00151940-stm32l41xxx42xxx43xxx44xxx45xxx46xxx-advanced-armbased-32bit-mcus-stmicroelectronics.pdf
2020-09-10T23:56:00 < Cracki> hahah wtf no interrupts from that thing for a whole series? figures 335/336 are damning
2020-09-10T23:58:38 < Cracki> 30.6 confirms that you could do a compare match
2020-09-10T23:58:46 < Cracki> auto reload match too
2020-09-10T23:59:10 < Cracki> which looks to me functionally equivalent to an update event
--- Day changed Fri Sep 11 2020
2020-09-11T00:12:01 < bitmask> is mylar shielding  useless without the drain wire attached?
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2020-09-11T00:27:52 < GenTooMan> it wants to be attached but on only one side of the wire connection. IE start or finish but NEVER both, that is extremely BAD.
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2020-09-11T01:08:40 < karlp> yaynot that I've seen, is that one of their cm0 or cm3 or cm4?
2020-09-11T01:20:44 -!- upgrdman [~upgrdman@blender/artist/upgrdman] has quit [Quit: Leaving]
2020-09-11T01:25:24 < karlp> have you tried just emailing gl-inet?
2020-09-11T01:25:47 -!- leorat [~leorat@unaffiliated/leorat] has quit [Quit: Leaving]
2020-09-11T01:41:55 < dongs> happy 9/11 assholes
2020-09-11T01:42:39 < dongs> strata: nuvoton has their own debugger/ice thing thats what those are for
2020-09-11T01:43:03 < dongs> nu-link i think?
2020-09-11T01:43:42 < dongs> "ICP Interface"
2020-09-11T01:45:01 < dongs> the fuck is that thing anywaty
2020-09-11T01:45:09 < dongs> a fucking pocket wifi?
2020-09-11T01:45:15 < dongs> for neckbeards
2020-09-11T01:46:05 < dongs> I bought some Huawei thing with ethernet and 5000mAh batt, used it for about a year before I discovered dual sim phones, never turned back
2020-09-11T01:46:52 < dongs> https://static.gl-inet.com/www/images/products/gl-e750/E750_scene_2.jpg
2020-09-11T01:47:03 < dongs> surprised that faggot isnt on a macbook
2020-09-11T01:47:25 < dongs> that looks like the cheapest trash dell they could find
2020-09-11T01:49:01 < dongs> oh this has ethernet too?>
2020-09-11T01:49:15 < dongs> wut, with a usb-c docking dongle the fuck
2020-09-11T01:55:37 < zyp> probably custom altmode with gbe on ss lines
2020-09-11T01:57:31 < dongs> nah its prolly just normal usbc, i mean that shit is running some disgusting lunix on qualcomm anyway
2020-09-11T01:57:42 < dongs> then again.. its openwrt
2020-09-11T01:57:45 < dongs> does that even support USB
2020-09-11T02:19:09 < karlp> of course?
2020-09-11T02:21:58 < karlp> dongs: why did dual sim phone change your life on that?
2020-09-11T02:22:16 < karlp> can you actually get a data only sim that's cheaper than data on a normal voice sim?
2020-09-11T02:22:21 < dongs> karlp: cuz when traveling i can just throw in a local sim and use it normally, and phone can be a usable wifi hotspot etc
2020-09-11T02:22:25 < dongs> yeah absolutely
2020-09-11T02:22:39 < dongs> its like 5-10 bucks for a temp visitor sim pretty much anywhere i went
2020-09-11T02:23:00 < dongs> most of them incldued voice as well
2020-09-11T02:23:01 < karlp> right, you mean while travelling,
2020-09-11T02:23:05 < dongs> that i never used
2020-09-11T02:23:22 < dongs> and whats preventing youfrom placing a data-only sim in a dual-sim phone?
2020-09-11T02:23:41 < karlp> nothing, just thought you were doinng this at home, not travelling
2020-09-11T02:24:23 < dongs> if I'm already at home I have absolutely zero use for a wifi hotspot
2020-09-11T02:53:06 < Mangy_Dog> https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/695271473308237985/753763858044420126/IMG_20200911_004657.jpg hopefully last time!
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2020-09-11T03:32:45 < dongs> does mangy_dong has his own patreon-only discord server
2020-09-11T03:32:52 < dongs> what the hell is that BRT chip?
2020-09-11T03:32:54 < dongs> is that ftdi?
2020-09-11T03:33:06 < dongs> ooh thats EVE
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2020-09-11T04:23:46 < rajkosto> i soldered another stm32 to this board and its still doing the short on 3v3
2020-09-11T04:23:48 < rajkosto> the heck
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2020-09-11T04:32:16 < Cracki> board fucked
2020-09-11T04:32:34 < Cracki> how many contact pairs have you beeped yet
2020-09-11T04:33:14 < rajkosto> the board has no short until the stm32 is on it
2020-09-11T04:33:28 < rajkosto> i didnt even power it on and the short is there
2020-09-11T04:33:47 < Cracki> mind you, that's not a conclusion, just the probabilities changed and board fucked has become likelier than diff chip+soldering being the cause
2020-09-11T04:34:08 < Cracki> ok, then they sold you pieces of scrap metal with makeup on them
2020-09-11T04:34:12 < Cracki> beep the chips
2020-09-11T04:34:34 < rajkosto> its annoying to do that as the pins bend
2020-09-11T04:34:44 < Cracki> bend?
2020-09-11T04:34:56 < Cracki> it's a leggy one then, put it flat down and touch the legs
2020-09-11T04:35:22 < Cracki> how would they bend if you touch the probes on the feet with downward force
2020-09-11T04:35:57 < Cracki> if it slips, put a piece of paper or a rubber mat under it
2020-09-11T04:39:34 < rajkosto> PC13-TAMPER_RTC is ok to be ground right
2020-09-11T04:43:48 < rajkosto> same as PB2 and PB4
2020-09-11T04:45:01 < Cracki> "be" ground? or be grounded?
2020-09-11T04:45:21 < Cracki> I think you better check PC13 in the DS and RM
2020-09-11T04:45:28 < Cracki> that sounds somewhat special/important
2020-09-11T04:46:01 < rajkosto> be grounded
2020-09-11T04:46:17 < Cracki> what chip, f103 something?
2020-09-11T04:47:16 < rajkosto> ye
2020-09-11T04:47:38 < rajkosto> https://images.sshnuke.net/2020-09-11_03-47-35_uPpldLoFr.png
2020-09-11T04:48:52 < Cracki> well pc13 should be high impedance unless you configure it
2020-09-11T04:49:15 < Cracki> I think I agree with boot0 and nrst circuits
2020-09-11T04:50:06 < rajkosto> one time i forgot they were different polarity so it was always going into bootloader mode
2020-09-11T04:50:10 < Cracki> are you putting the chip on last? try putting it on first, then place other components and check for the short
2020-09-11T04:50:21 < rajkosto> its on last
2020-09-11T04:50:32 < rajkosto> but without it, no short, no power consumption
2020-09-11T04:50:37 < rajkosto> 3v3 is 3v3
2020-09-11T04:50:45 < rajkosto> i dont wanna desolder other shit
2020-09-11T04:50:57 < Cracki> that BOOT button looks hooked up weird
2020-09-11T04:51:06 < Cracki> R to NRST on one side, R to gnd on the other
2020-09-11T04:51:20 < rajkosto> nah
2020-09-11T04:51:23 < rajkosto> just saving space
2020-09-11T04:51:30 < Cracki> short from what to what
2020-09-11T04:51:38 < rajkosto> 3v3 to gnd
2020-09-11T04:51:56 < Cracki> ok, can you tell which pins of the stm32 do that
2020-09-11T04:52:25 < rajkosto> counting is annoying
2020-09-11T04:53:35 < Cracki> when no chip, which pads of the footprint on the pcb are shorts to gnd or vcc
2020-09-11T04:53:53 < Cracki> does the short appear when you put an unprogrammed chip on the board?
2020-09-11T04:54:18 < Cracki> is the footprint and symbol correct
2020-09-11T04:55:01 < rajkosto> when no chip, gnd to vcc is not shorted
2020-09-11T04:55:05 < Cracki> obviously
2020-09-11T04:55:09 < Cracki> but something else should be
2020-09-11T04:55:25 < Cracki> and you should check if the pins on the chip, when not on the board, aren't shorting
2020-09-11T04:55:35 < rajkosto> doing that now it takes forever 
2020-09-11T04:55:44 < Cracki> ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
2020-09-11T04:55:50 < Cracki> you could begin with a blank board
2020-09-11T04:56:57 < Cracki> if your multimeter is beeping fast enough, you could just brush over the pins. one probe on vcc or gnd, brush with other probe
2020-09-11T04:57:06 < rajkosto> 48 and 47 on the chip on my desk are shorted
2020-09-11T04:57:13 < rajkosto> VCCA is not shorted
2020-09-11T04:58:03 < rajkosto> yeah chips are shorted
2020-09-11T04:59:26 < Cracki> 47/48, are those pb10/11?
2020-09-11T04:59:37 < Cracki> no, vdd and vss
2020-09-11T04:59:39 < rajkosto> https://images.sshnuke.net/2020-09-11_03-59-36_ajOaERegn.png
2020-09-11T04:59:46 < rajkosto> 6.5ohm it says tho
2020-09-11T04:59:47 < Cracki> ok so maybe you read the marking wrong. check the other corners
2020-09-11T05:01:05 < Cracki> if you have the 48 pin variant, any orientation shouldn't short (all corners are vdd/vss or pa2/pa1 which should be hiz)
2020-09-11T05:01:46 < Cracki> same for fewer pins and 64.
2020-09-11T05:02:03 < Cracki> if that short is on all the chips, they fucked you
2020-09-11T05:02:08 < rajkosto> btw i got alcohol/acetone on my multimeter plastic display cover
2020-09-11T05:02:11 < rajkosto> so its all cloudy
2020-09-11T05:02:14 < rajkosto> just ripped it off so i can see numbers
2020-09-11T05:02:29 < Cracki> there are ways to polish that back to clarity
2020-09-11T05:02:41 < rajkosto> too late now
2020-09-11T05:02:43 < rajkosto> its in multiple pieces
2020-09-11T05:02:44 < rajkosto> cuz it was glued
2020-09-11T05:02:48 < Cracki> yay
2020-09-11T05:02:50 < rajkosto> i see clear direct display now
2020-09-11T05:10:41 < rajkosto> 7ohms ?
2020-09-11T05:12:33 < rajkosto> got one thats 3.4 ohms, one thats 7.1 ohms
2020-09-11T05:13:33 < rajkosto> one thats 5.7
2020-09-11T05:40:53 < Cracki> use a diode test
2020-09-11T05:41:06 < Cracki> it should beep too, but also tell you the diode voltage
2020-09-11T05:41:42 < rajkosto> jesus the multimeter beeps are EAR PIERCING now that the cover is off
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2020-09-11T05:42:32 < Cracki> you could gag it with some tissue pressing on the speaker
2020-09-11T05:42:55 < rajkosto> speaker is not accessible from outside
2020-09-11T05:46:05 < Cracki> a little plastic isn't gonna stop you
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2020-09-11T05:56:02 < rajkosto> heh
2020-09-11T05:56:05 < rajkosto> yeah all these chips are dead
2020-09-11T05:56:11 < rajkosto> nice job, aliexpress seller
2020-09-11T05:56:20 < rajkosto> i put one on a blackpill and since the current limit on its LDO is way higher
2020-09-11T05:56:37 < rajkosto> the actual 3v3 pin starts boiling the flux still on it
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2020-09-11T05:56:43 < rajkosto> 0.7A 
2020-09-11T06:18:51 < rajkosto> sad, no available stm32 for me
2020-09-11T06:21:17 < rajkosto> someone is sellin bluepill locally so ill get that
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2020-09-11T06:29:43 < Cracki> can you still get a refund at least?
2020-09-11T06:30:30 < Cracki> you know... vdd to vss _should_ be low resistance. that's how it's powered. it shouldn't be 0.7 amps however
2020-09-11T06:31:44 < Cracki> hey uh where on your schematic is vdd/vss on the chip, I must be blind
2020-09-11T06:32:02 < Cracki> is it at all possible that you mixed vdd/gnd up
2020-09-11T06:32:19 < Cracki> ah down there. split symbol
2020-09-11T06:33:21 < rajkosto> it does the same on blackpill just with more current so
2020-09-11T06:33:24 < rajkosto> theyre all dead somehow
2020-09-11T06:33:35 < rajkosto> i managed to make some dead like that by putting 12v onto an IO pin accidentally
2020-09-11T06:33:41 < rajkosto> thus i have no more spares
2020-09-11T06:33:55 < Cracki> I'm gonna have to ask a dozen people if they've seen my package... that was apparently delivered (or not) TWO months ago. last mile "carrier" was one of those with no work ethic, rang the whole house and was gone before I could even open the door
2020-09-11T06:33:57 < rajkosto> at least its just 5 of them
2020-09-11T06:34:20 < rajkosto> weird that they all look legit but all dead somehow, while sealed in tape
2020-09-11T06:35:16 < Cracki> marking dead chips and sealing them, that's no trouble
2020-09-11T06:35:48 < Cracki> they have machines for that
2020-09-11T06:36:08 < rajkosto> not even 1 working one in there tho
2020-09-11T06:37:11 < Cracki> of course not. they'll check their stuff and keep the working ones extra. maximum profit means minimum working ones.
2020-09-11T06:37:23 < Cracki> over there five bucks goes a long way
2020-09-11T06:37:59 < Cracki> we have ads on bus stops here, it says "I can buy a cup of coffee -- for 2 bucks -- we can feed a starving child for a week"
2020-09-11T06:38:29 < Cracki> yeah bullshit, they can do that _where it lives_, but they really wanna feed it right here, where 2 bucks is a day or one meal
2020-09-11T06:39:02 < rajkosto> i just ohm tested my fake stlink that has a working stm32 and its a kiloohm or two
2020-09-11T06:39:26 < Cracki> now I'm curious
2020-09-11T06:39:53 < rajkosto> pins 47 and 48
2020-09-11T06:40:23 < Cracki> bluepill, 1k vcc-gnd
2020-09-11T06:40:53 < rajkosto> yeah was 1kohm for me first time exactly too
2020-09-11T06:41:14 < Cracki> diode test doesn't even respond, maybe because 10 mA or whatever it uses to probe doesn't get it to respond
2020-09-11T06:41:40 < rajkosto> oops, all dead stm32s
2020-09-11T06:42:45 < Cracki> ah I'm dumb, that was continuity, now I'm in diode mode
2020-09-11T06:43:14 < Cracki> vcc-gnd 1v, gnd-vcc 0.4 v
2020-09-11T06:43:36 < Cracki> that look like protection diode the uphill way
2020-09-11T06:46:40 < Cracki> f303 robotdyn module: vcc-gnd 1.86v and a green led glowing; gnd-vcc 0.43v
2020-09-11T06:48:54 < Cracki> happy dancing art students day
2020-09-11T07:00:58 < rajkosto> but this is not a perfect world
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2020-09-11T07:17:14 < Cracki> that's why they danced 19 years ago
2020-09-11T07:18:04 < Cracki> maybe I'm being too cryptic
2020-09-11T07:19:46 < Cracki> "document the event"
2020-09-11T07:21:11 < Cracki> inb4 they weren't art students, they were a moving company
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2020-09-11T11:59:27 < karlp> how come qemu upstream _still_ only has the two stellaris targets, and _none_ of the forks with stm32s in them have ever managed to merge?!
2020-09-11T12:00:59 < Steffanx> Isnt there this new emulator that is totally amazing?
2020-09-11T12:01:25 < Steffanx> Even has the complete stm32f4-disco as a board in it
2020-09-11T12:02:18 < Steffanx> *newer
2020-09-11T12:04:03 < karlp> oh great, https://www.qemu.org/docs/master/system/targets.html doesnt't even list all targets
2020-09-11T12:04:22 < Steffanx> Renode it was
2020-09-11T12:04:39 < karlp> https://git.qemu.org/?p=qemu.git;a=blob;f=hw/arm/netduinoplus2.c;h=68abd3ec69d9435f020c17f5ddf63f28d7312c13;hb=master is f4, netduino is f2,
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2020-09-11T13:11:09 -!- Netsplit *.net <-> *.split quits: varesa, diamondman, dreamcat4, funnel
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2020-09-11T14:15:10  * con3 realizes HS usb isolators are not going to be an easy find
2020-09-11T14:19:04  * karlp laughs
2020-09-11T14:19:06 < karlp> no, they're not ...
2020-09-11T14:19:20 < karlp> so, this is fun.... guess what file is inside: https://dl.antmicro.com/projects/renode/svd/STM32L1xx.svd.gz
2020-09-11T14:19:36 < karlp> if you guessed "STM32L1xx.svd" you'd be.... right... but also wrong :)
2020-09-11T14:23:44 < Steffanx> Haha lol
2020-09-11T14:30:27 < GenTooMan> con3 http://www.advancedphotonics.co.jp/en/usb3-isolator.html
2020-09-11T14:31:03 < karlp> GenTooMan: "Does NOT support
2020-09-11T14:31:04 < karlp> USB2.0(high speed 480Mbps),"
2020-09-11T14:31:45 < GenTooMan> too slow... he said high speed I thought he was talking 2+gbps
2020-09-11T14:32:43 < jpa-> GenTooMan: "HS" is quite clear spec :)
2020-09-11T14:33:23 < karlp> con3: depending on what you're actually doing.... usbip might be a viable workaround...
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2020-09-11T14:39:36 < jpa-> https://hifimediy.com/product/hifime-high-speed-usb-isolator/   looks like this is one of the only existing HS isolators
2020-09-11T14:40:21 < jpa-> https://www.eevblog.com/forum/chat/high-speed-usb-isolator/msg1197100/#msg1197100   has photo of insides, ICEUSBB3 chip
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2020-09-11T14:45:12 < karlp> you could, um... https://www.corning.com/optical-cables-by-corning/worldwide/en/products/usb-optical-cables.html
2020-09-11T14:45:45 < karlp> though not sure if they're actually opto all the wya, or just "longer"
2020-09-11T14:45:56 < jpa-> yeah, though the eevblog thread indicates that it doesn't isolate the DC supply
2020-09-11T14:46:47 < karlp> as far as I can tell, renode has no support for anything "real" in the rcc register.
2020-09-11T14:46:51 < con3> karlp: I'm planning on sampling a large set of signals quite fast. So looks like it'll come out at 48 MHz. Want to then push this through to a PC in a somewhat safeway as I dont want to blow my pc.
2020-09-11T14:46:52 < karlp> you need to implement a fake one, 
2020-09-11T14:47:18 < karlp> galvanic isolation is probably not really necessary then.
2020-09-11T14:47:57 < jpa-> con3: could be easier to design isolation into your device then, if it is often needed
2020-09-11T14:48:15 < con3> jpa-: isolation into my device?
2020-09-11T14:48:47  * con3 shows his card declaring him as an idiot
2020-09-11T14:49:02  * con3 needs people to speak sloooooowly
2020-09-11T14:50:20 < jpa-> con3: i assume you are making the device that samples these signals and sends them over usb?
2020-09-11T14:50:21 < con3> jpa-: this would mean isolating everything up until the mcu and usb interface?
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2020-09-11T14:50:32 < con3> jpa-: that's correct
2020-09-11T14:51:06 < jpa-> yeah, depending on your speed requirements you could put an isolator on the digital signals, or put a USB isolator chip (if you can find one) on the USB interface
2020-09-11T14:51:28 < jpa-> or have two MCUs and isolator between them
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2020-09-11T14:51:52 < con3> or have two MCUs and isolator between them: that's actually a great idea
2020-09-11T14:52:42 < jpa-> if you plan on compressing / run-length encoding the signals, you could even throw an FPGA on the other side
2020-09-11T14:52:47 < karlp> then you can use a "normal" spi isolator from silabs/ti/adum/2pai at 100Mbps...
2020-09-11T14:52:55 < karlp> not HS usb, but... enough?
2020-09-11T14:54:54 < jpa-> https://www.digikey.com/product-detail/en/silicon-labs/SI8645BA-B-IUR/SI8645BA-B-IURCT-ND/8017829   i'd probably throw just a bunch of these on input channels
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2020-09-11T14:55:54  * con3 needs to think a bit
2020-09-11T15:00:22 < karlp> right... they implemented it for f4 here: https://github.com/renode/renode-infrastructure/blob/master/src/Emulator/Peripherals/Peripherals/Miscellaneous/STM32F4_RCC.cs
2020-09-11T15:00:34 < karlp> l1 has rcc as a flip flop
2020-09-11T15:01:26 < jpa-> karlp: so is renode some kind of .net on cortex-m thing?
2020-09-11T15:01:47 < karlp> no, looks mor elike qemu redone in .net with script files to setup things
2020-09-11T15:01:54 < karlp> it's got some nice looking bits in it.
2020-09-11T15:02:00 < karlp> connecting mutliple emulated nodes together.
2020-09-11T15:02:16 < con3> hmm... so what I'm thinking of doing is having the ADC's on the HV side. Then send the samples through to the mcu through an isolator. The MCU side will be run by a few 18650's. Then the mcu side can be connected directly to the pc through a ulpi interface
2020-09-11T15:09:47 < con3> other option i guess is ethernet..
2020-09-11T15:13:30 < karlp> yup, that'ðs why I mentioned usbip
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2020-09-11T15:15:18 < Steffanx> I've read your most favourite python is also a way to add peripherals 
2020-09-11T15:15:30 < Steffanx> But idk more about it
2020-09-11T15:15:38 < con3> karlp: I dont think i completely understood it, but going to check again
2020-09-11T15:16:00 < karlp> you can have your usb device on the hot side, and wifi/ethernet to make it apepr as a usb device elsewhere
2020-09-11T15:16:11 < karlp> (if it needs to be usb for other reasons, otherwise just leave it at wifi/ethernet)
2020-09-11T15:16:37 < con3> so usb -> ethernet -> usb
2020-09-11T15:16:56 < karlp> if you want it to be usb at the far end yes.
2020-09-11T15:17:16 < karlp> you can do things like drop a rpi/et al on the hot side, with usb ip daemon
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2020-09-11T15:30:17 < karlp> ok, running.
2020-09-11T15:30:32 < karlp> had ot fake CRC and set up IDcode and fake all the oscillator ready bits...
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2020-09-11T17:02:03 < karlp> https://gist.github.com/karlp/6fc3edfc5b8087259c6b767f6d4d4cbb I guess.
2020-09-11T17:02:27 < karlp> I really like this idea of being able to setup multipe nodes and connect them together, but feels like a lot to get there
2020-09-11T17:06:11 < jpa-> can it run code while accurately counting the number of instructions executed? that seems to be surprisingly difficult with qemu
2020-09-11T17:06:44 < karlp> no idea on that area.
2020-09-11T17:07:01 < jpa-> i mean, does it emulate systick or something?
2020-09-11T17:07:12 < karlp> it does have systick yeah
2020-09-11T17:07:16 < karlp> I had to fake dwt cyccnt
2020-09-11T17:07:22 < karlp> and itm
2020-09-11T17:07:22 < jpa-> qemu's systick emulation is just crazy, it is tied to wall clock time instead of emulation speed
2020-09-11T17:07:40 < karlp> ok, renode seems to do it all on their own virtual clock time,
2020-09-11T17:07:42 < karlp> which seems sane
2020-09-11T17:07:50 < jpa-> ok
2020-09-11T17:10:22 < karlp> docs look nice, but there's lots missing when I start trying to do more.
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2020-09-11T17:42:17 < karlp> imagine thinking that 73 is a slam dunk
2020-09-11T17:42:24 < karlp> dude, funding is competitive
2020-09-11T17:42:32 < karlp> you've got to be at the top of it.
2020-09-11T17:43:18 < karlp> 73 means you actually cared abotu your app, you didn't just write "gib moneyz, I iz l33t entreprenooooor"
2020-09-11T17:43:27 < karlp> but you just weren't good enough
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2020-09-11T18:14:21 < Steffanx> Lol you got some nice words for mr blaxter. 
2020-09-11T18:14:39 < Steffanx> Or no  negative words at least. Mr karlp ;)
2020-09-11T18:15:48 < mawk> karlp really lowered your standards of niceness Steffanx or what
2020-09-11T18:19:13 < karlp> I still don't consider myself to be always negative, though I repeatedly seem that wya toyou apparently :)
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2020-09-11T18:23:24 < Steffanx> Hehe, im like that. So i know how to spot one, karlp . Lol
2020-09-11T18:26:10 < mawk> negativity isn't really related to niceness
2020-09-11T18:26:13 < mawk> you can be nicely negative
2020-09-11T18:26:36 < mawk> "don't take this wrong, and I say this as your friend, but you're a piece of shit" ← good negativity
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2020-09-11T18:31:48 < Steffanx> Absolutely mawk
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2020-09-11T18:33:39 < rajkosto> are there any color calibrated oled RGB small screens ?
2020-09-11T18:33:44  * karlp laughs
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2020-09-11T18:56:57 < R2COM> "No NeGaTiViTy"
2020-09-11T18:57:26 < Steffanx> Welcome mr R2COM 
2020-09-11T19:05:49 -!- bitmask [~bitmask@2601:84:c702:f500:ad89:c633:f976:be0c] has joined ##stm32
2020-09-11T19:06:18 < Steffanx> Welcome bitmask 
2020-09-11T19:06:43 < bitmask> herro
2020-09-11T19:06:53 < bitmask> how goes it
2020-09-11T19:08:39 < bitmask> hurry up jlcpcb
2020-09-11T19:10:59 < Cracki> I'm feeling negative today. am I in danger?
2020-09-11T19:12:33  * specing puts Cracki into the charger
2020-09-11T19:15:07 < Cracki> I think I'm broken. I feel like a decade of deep discharge.
2020-09-11T19:15:28 < bitmask> take a vacation
2020-09-11T19:15:46 < Cracki> "cheer up"
2020-09-11T19:16:01 < bitmask> talk to a therapist
2020-09-11T19:16:20 < Cracki> therapists will only murder me. they are part of the crowd that makes my world hell.
2020-09-11T19:16:41 < bitmask> how so?
2020-09-11T19:17:23 < Cracki> i'd be painting a target on my back if I was open about that. this wouldn't have been an issue 20 years ago
2020-09-11T19:18:04 < bitmask> I think you have it reversed, it would have been an issue 20 years ago but is accepted today
2020-09-11T19:19:03 < bitmask> if someone thinks seeing a therapist is weak or worth looking down on then they are an idiot and who cares what idiots think
2020-09-11T19:19:20 < Cracki> watch the netflix movie "Cuties" if you wanna see an example of what's wrong with this world
2020-09-11T19:19:51 < Cracki> no no, the _therapist_ would murder me for having the wrong opinions
2020-09-11T19:20:18 < bitmask> therapists dont judge
2020-09-11T19:20:26 < Cracki> hahahahahah
2020-09-11T19:20:52 < bitmask> well of course they do internally, but they dont act on it
2020-09-11T19:20:57 < Cracki> last one I tried guilttripped me, told me it's all my fault
2020-09-11T19:21:02 < Cracki> literally
2020-09-11T19:21:06 < bitmask> where do you live?
2020-09-11T19:21:13 < Cracki> asked me if I didn't somehow "ASK FOR IT"
2020-09-11T19:21:34 < bitmask> ive never heard of a therapist like that, it takes a few tries to find the right therapist
2020-09-11T19:21:42 < Cracki> I should have left her office through the window just to ruin her fucking day
2020-09-11T19:21:44 < bitmask> doesnt mean you should just give up
2020-09-11T19:21:58 < Cracki> therapists can't fix this world
2020-09-11T19:22:07 < Cracki> they can only prescribe me medicine that dulls my senses
2020-09-11T19:22:16 < bitmask> therapists dont prescribe meds
2020-09-11T19:22:21 < Cracki> or they can make me ruminate on his hell
2020-09-11T19:22:40 < Cracki> and ruminating is only deepening a depression
2020-09-11T19:22:43 < R2COM> kama was a prostitute, she was sleeping with some black senator who helped her with careers, at a time she was 29 and he was 61, nothing against that, but i dont want cock sucking president
2020-09-11T19:22:56 < bitmask> they can give you tools to manage and help you find good things in the world
2020-09-11T19:23:36 < Cracki> I'm talking to people who understand me. therapists are extremely unlikely to understand me. their whole world view is aligned with this hell.
2020-09-11T19:23:42 < bitmask> but if you are not willing to try then im not gonna waste my time, just give it a shot, whats the worst that can happen
2020-09-11T19:23:49 < Cracki> the worst? me dead
2020-09-11T19:23:51 < R2COM> i dated many girls in US, they told me their former boyfriends were all on some sort of anti depressant because of "Stress" etc, and they also had hard time keeping cock hard
2020-09-11T19:23:54 < Cracki> and I'm afraid of me dead
2020-09-11T19:24:00 < Cracki> which is why I avoid therapists like the plague
2020-09-11T19:24:23 < R2COM> in us most people (overwhelmingly liberals) like the idea of therapy, pills for anti depressant stuff, etc
2020-09-11T19:24:28 < Cracki> ^
2020-09-11T19:24:51 < Cracki> the real medicine is finding likeminded people and restoring a sense of belonging and community
2020-09-11T19:25:00 < bitmask> im not saying pills, theres nothing wrong with therapy though
2020-09-11T19:25:02 < R2COM> they even pump their children with that shit, instead of giving them to some proper places, like say, judo club or wrestling club or boxing, so children can evolve physically and release energy
2020-09-11T19:25:04 < Cracki> they WANT me to think I'm alone
2020-09-11T19:25:29 < Cracki> they want me to be depressed because then I'm ineffective
2020-09-11T19:25:59 < R2COM> the left is so miserable and pathetic
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2020-09-11T19:26:30 < R2COM> every stupid place you call to for something ..some service, some other little business for something etc, fairwals with "stay healthy stay safe" 
2020-09-11T19:26:34 < R2COM> im like.... wtf..?
2020-09-11T19:26:39 < R2COM> i am healthy and safe
2020-09-11T19:27:08 < R2COM> "how is virus affecting your life during these hard times?" or something
2020-09-11T19:27:13 < R2COM> ummm...it doesnt?
2020-09-11T19:27:16 < R2COM> lol
2020-09-11T19:27:37 < Cracki> the virus doesn't. all the headless chickens do.
2020-09-11T19:27:47 < R2COM> i was in some business related meeting discussion with bunch of californians
2020-09-11T19:27:51 < R2COM> soo..
2020-09-11T19:28:00 < Cracki> californians, hold my avocado toast
2020-09-11T19:28:04 < R2COM> 15 mins into the meeting...and instead of getting technical, people still discuss weather in CA
2020-09-11T19:28:06 < R2COM> the smoke...
2020-09-11T19:28:11 < R2COM> how it affects them
2020-09-11T19:28:15 < R2COM> how depressive it is
2020-09-11T19:28:20 < Cracki> a good fraction of the fires are arson
2020-09-11T19:28:28 < R2COM> sharing pictures of how San Francisco is in smoke etc
2020-09-11T19:28:31 < R2COM> from fires
2020-09-11T19:28:31 < Cracki> terrorists setting fire to "rich" looking houses
2020-09-11T19:28:35 < R2COM> jeez...
2020-09-11T19:28:42 < R2COM> when will those people stop drinking cum
2020-09-11T19:29:03 < Cracki> reminds me of that limo driver that got his limo trashed because "eat the rich", now he's broke because it was his car he used to earn his living
2020-09-11T19:29:12 < R2COM> the weather affects their mood...they need to talk to therapist.... they need to take anti depressants
2020-09-11T19:29:14 < R2COM> lol
2020-09-11T19:29:55 < Cracki> weather affects my mood too. the biggest value of a vacation would be sun rays.
2020-09-11T19:29:59 < R2COM> he should have had a full insurance.... thats what one supposed to have with expensive car, thats what i have too, even with non limo
2020-09-11T19:30:01 < Cracki> for now it's good outside.
2020-09-11T19:30:06 < Cracki> lol insurance
2020-09-11T19:30:10 < Cracki> insurance doesn't cover terrorism
2020-09-11T19:30:35 < R2COM> i do not care about a fucking weather, im not a sailor setting out for long ocean sale or something, so i dont care about weather
2020-09-11T19:30:47 < R2COM> insurance does cover vandalism damage
2020-09-11T19:31:15 < Cracki> look at all the shops trashed during the riots. the owners are now fucked. nobody is helping them. insurance, IF it pays out, pays out current value, so on average you get half the money you would need to restart.
2020-09-11T19:32:48 < R2COM> solution: do not open shop in liberal/democrat controlled state, do not live there. done.
2020-09-11T19:33:19 < R2COM> in fact, thats what gonna happen very soon, those places will turn into even more shithole than they are right now
2020-09-11T19:33:36 < R2COM> and without more money inflow, things will get even worse
2020-09-11T19:34:10 < Cracki> but who's gonna prevent them from fleeing their sinking ships and causing new ships to sink? are cities even allowed to have city walls still?
2020-09-11T19:34:38 < R2COM> people like Kyle
2020-09-11T19:34:46 < Cracki> they'd cry such big tears if they were prevented from living in a functioning community, or if they were prevented from voting
2020-09-11T19:35:15 < Cracki> the world needs more ofhim
2020-09-11T19:35:18 < R2COM> they can cry all they want, nobody cares
2020-09-11T19:35:43 < Cracki> the world needs more places like Orania
2020-09-11T19:36:51 < Cracki> eh, I should plan my day
2020-09-11T19:37:09 < R2COM> how many hours will be spent on pornhub?
2020-09-11T19:37:42 < Cracki> 0
2020-09-11T19:38:04 < R2COM> watch some entertaining videos like "black maid owned by her white master"
2020-09-11T19:38:09 < Cracki> maybe doing some opencl
2020-09-11T19:38:37 < Cracki> maybe I'll skip through "Cuties" and ragepost about the child rapist shit they're selling as entertainment
2020-09-11T19:39:00 < Cracki> evil exists. there is the proof.
2020-09-11T19:39:09 < R2COM> is opencl worth looking into?
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2020-09-11T19:39:43 < Cracki> dunno, depends. for number crunching it's probably a good idea to know a little about it.
2020-09-11T19:39:56 < Cracki> http://developer.amd.com/wordpress/media/2013/01/Introduction_to_OpenCL_Programming-201005.pdf
2020-09-11T19:40:05 < Cracki> I've got a naive 2d box blur working.
2020-09-11T19:40:34 < Cracki> I'm probably doing a bunch of dumb things; it's not reaching the theoretical maximum crunch of my GPU, just 20%
2020-09-11T19:41:35 < R2COM> do 10M point 32bit FFT
2020-09-11T19:42:04 < Cracki> in that case there's probably libraries that implement this for you
2020-09-11T19:42:22 < R2COM> well run it and see loading
2020-09-11T19:44:25 < Cracki> it's like cuda but everyone else implements it. I saw a pdf from texas instruments explaining opencl for some DSP purposes.
2020-09-11T19:44:34 < Cracki> intel bets heavily on it
2020-09-11T19:48:35 < R2COM> yeah so cuda is nvidia only right?
2020-09-11T19:48:58 < R2COM> its good that intel pushes opencl then
2020-09-11T19:49:10 < R2COM> intel is now major fpga maker too if you know
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2020-09-11T19:51:13 < effractur> R2COM: intel is pushing SYCL now
2020-09-11T19:51:24 < effractur> and cuda can be translated to sycl or HIP
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2020-09-11T19:57:50 < Mangy_Dog> https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/695271473308237985/754022683523678329/IMG_20200911_175556.jpg
2020-09-11T20:05:46 < jpa-> R2COM: i've used opencl, it was nice to use but the speedup wasn't as high as i would have hoped for; not sure if it is opencl's fault or just because transferring data to gpu and back is a bit slowish
2020-09-11T20:07:00 < aandrew> Mangy_Dog: nice, what are those
2020-09-11T20:08:54 < effractur> but doing opencl correctly is hard
2020-09-11T20:09:01 < R2COM> it depends  on your motherboard and interconnect
2020-09-11T20:09:06 < effractur> it is now a days easier to just use the auto offload from the compiler
2020-09-11T20:09:09 < R2COM> if you had decent gpu and shit motherboard limiting it
2020-09-11T20:09:10 < effractur> that is quite good
2020-09-11T20:09:12 < R2COM> you cant blame opencl
2020-09-11T20:09:18 < R2COM> did you check that or no
2020-09-11T20:09:34 < effractur> most of the times it is just badly writen kernels
2020-09-11T20:09:45 < R2COM> what kernel
2020-09-11T20:09:51 < effractur> the opencl compute kernels
2020-09-11T20:10:39 < jpa-> i had crappy motherboard and grappy gpu
2020-09-11T20:10:44 < effractur> and that is nice about sycl or openmp auto offload all this stuff is offloaded to the compiler wo can make desisions based on the architecture
2020-09-11T20:10:51 < jpa-> https://github.com/PetteriAimonen/focus-stack/blob/master/src/task_wavelet_opencl_kernels.cl   and probably crappy kernels also
2020-09-11T20:11:37 < jpa-> now that i have a bit faster PC, i cannot test that because linux kernel driver for the AMD gpu crashes :)
2020-09-11T20:11:58 < R2COM> why would you put linux on a PC
2020-09-11T20:12:04 < R2COM> its terrible idea
2020-09-11T20:12:26 < jpa-> i execute terrible ideas all the time
2020-09-11T20:12:40 < emeb> terrible ideas are the best ideas
2020-09-11T20:12:58 < jpa-> emeb: no, that's *terrific* ideas
2020-09-11T20:13:09 < jpa-> i always mix the two
2020-09-11T20:13:38 < R2COM> its ok, emeb calls rioters protesters probably too, so take it easy
2020-09-11T20:14:03 < emeb> R2COM: Big Qanon fan are we?
2020-09-11T20:14:18 < jpa-> the whole concept of "riot" sounds so crazy that i'm happily isolated from it
2020-09-11T20:14:47 < jpa-> "protester" means that someone sits in front of the parlament building with a sign for a few hours
2020-09-11T20:15:22  * emeb riots for more ice cream
2020-09-11T20:15:33 < emeb> riot of 1
2020-09-11T20:15:37 < Cracki> >hammer and sycl
2020-09-11T20:15:49 < R2COM> emeb its all great but ghislaine maxwell is sitting in a cell for something real....not for conspiracy, keep living in your dreamworld
2020-09-11T20:19:15 < Steffanx> Youre amazing R2COM 
2020-09-11T20:19:54 < Cracki> lol wtf https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/SYCL#Example
2020-09-11T20:20:48 < R2COM> i see some c++ function with template parameter specialization there
2020-09-11T20:20:54 < Cracki> my opencl kernel sucks because my memory access pattern is dumb. I could be using local memory but I'm not.
2020-09-11T20:21:00 < srk> pr0n https://shop.seriouslypro.com/sp-racing-h7-extreme
2020-09-11T20:22:26 < Cracki> your board is full of flux
2020-09-11T20:23:12 < jpa-> i don't even understand how to use local memory :)
2020-09-11T20:27:55 < emeb> what is local?
2020-09-11T20:28:56 < Cracki> slide 26 http://developer.amd.com/wordpress/media/2013/01/Introduction_to_OpenCL_Programming-201005.pdf
2020-09-11T20:29:32 < Cracki> if you have a for-loop over i, a "work item" is the loop body for one i
2020-09-11T20:30:47 < Cracki> a work group makes sense when you aren't scatter/gathering like mad but there's some locality... ordinary cpus have caches for that, but here you have to manage the "local memory" yourself
2020-09-11T20:31:48 < Cracki> if every source element is touched once that makes no difference but if you do matrix multiplication or anything convolution-ary, it saves you access time
2020-09-11T20:32:21 < Cracki> rn I'm not doing that so it's like always hitting main memory (except the gpu's main memory) with no cache
2020-09-11T20:32:39 < jpa-> then i should probably be using it; so i should e.g. load one row of input to local memory and then process that with multiple work items? but where do i load it?
2020-09-11T20:34:41 < jpa-> looks like i should load e.g. one pixel per work item, then put a barrier to wait that whole row is loaded in parallel, and then go processing it
2020-09-11T20:47:50 < con3> I should actually just check my sampling rate, 48 MHz might be too high
2020-09-11T20:48:20 < Cracki> hrhrhr I remember you were doing some fast stuff but what are you sampling?
2020-09-11T20:51:35 < con3> sampling some transients. Although I think I might just be overdoing it on the sampling side. I dont even think I can store that, except if I use ram
2020-09-11T20:53:09 < con3> also, whats up with ##stm32-rs. just saw theres a new channel a few days ago
2020-09-11T20:53:45 < Cracki> upgrdman seems to be doing his own sampling with some fast ADCs, and azonenberg has some advanced fpga stuff
2020-09-11T20:54:19 < con3> Cracki: trying to avoid FPGA's goes I know nothing about them
2020-09-11T20:54:27 < con3> except of course they go fast
2020-09-11T20:54:30 < Cracki> ah stm32 rust
2020-09-11T20:54:45 < Cracki> that's why all the matrix users. half of them must be minors.
2020-09-11T20:55:01 < con3> ah!
2020-09-11T20:55:34 < con3> matrix users?
2020-09-11T20:56:07 < zyp> fpgas aren't really that fast, just wide
2020-09-11T20:56:09 < Cracki> all this [m] stuff. it's some kid of discord/slack-type overlay on top of irc
2020-09-11T20:56:11 < Cracki> or maybe a bridge
2020-09-11T20:56:25 < con3> ah i see
2020-09-11T20:56:42 < con3> zyp: wide? 
2020-09-11T20:57:36 < zyp> con3, yeah, if you've got one task to do they won't do it very fast, but if you've got a hundred tasks to do it can do them all in parallel
2020-09-11T21:02:39 < R2COM> achronix fpgas are fast
2020-09-11T21:02:44 < R2COM> if you can afford one
2020-09-11T21:09:01 < zyp> R2COM, looks nice, what clock speeds does typical designs run with?
2020-09-11T21:10:18 < zyp> glancing through the data sheet I see memory controller offers AXI ports up to 1 GHz, serdes runs up to 830 MHz on the parallel interfaces
2020-09-11T21:10:47 < zyp> so I guess thereabouts?
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2020-09-11T21:12:58 < zyp> looks like a bunch of the primitives (rams and multipliers) can do up to 750 MHz at the highest speed grade
2020-09-11T21:28:45 < emeb> lol achronix
2020-09-11T21:29:15 < emeb> originally started up trying to pitch fully asynchronous (no clocks) design. 
2020-09-11T21:29:21 < emeb> Gave up on that apparently.
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2020-09-11T21:44:16 < jadew> Cracki, those minks are awesome
2020-09-11T21:44:27 < Cracki> very :3
2020-09-11T21:44:47 < jadew> I wonder if they would solve the rat/mice problem if you lived in a house and you kept one or two around
2020-09-11T21:45:36 < jadew> the dogs are impressively trained too
2020-09-11T21:46:22 < Cracki> he keeps emphasizing that mink can't be kept like pets
2020-09-11T21:47:10 < Cracki> when he's doing a job all his critters are different tools. even among the mink there are specialists for certain situations
2020-09-11T21:47:28 < Cracki> narrow tunnels, wrestling a muskrat or beaver, ...
2020-09-11T21:47:53 < jadew> if you can't keep them as pets, can you at least teach them to stick around?
2020-09-11T21:48:26 < Cracki> hah I think not. he "mink-proofed" his yard to they _don't_ leave
2020-09-11T21:49:06 < jadew> too bad, they're awesome
2020-09-11T21:49:12 < Cracki> one time he was driving on the highway and looked in the mirror and saw a mink hanging out of the window, only the butt and hind legs still inside
2020-09-11T21:49:35 < Cracki> that was his escape artist "houdini"
2020-09-11T21:49:55 < jadew> they seem very docile tho
2020-09-11T21:50:07 < Cracki> this is fairly new. he _is_ breeding them. it may be possible to select for traits that make them better pets
2020-09-11T21:50:54 < Cracki> the ones that imprinted on him are but his fingers have been bitten countless times
2020-09-11T21:56:42 < Cracki> great, so I'm _not_ doing too much wrong https://milania.de/blog/Buffer_vs._image_performance_for_applying_filters_to_an_image_pyramid_in_OpenCL
2020-09-11T21:57:00 < Cracki> (apart from the naive algorithm, but this is about principles)
2020-09-11T21:59:39 < Cracki> local is still superior but at least using "images" isn't a dumb idea
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2020-09-11T22:38:01 < rajkosto> https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/403927117727006721/754062943582290114/368191a.jpg
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2020-09-11T22:44:41 < con3> looks like highspeed ADC's generally need to use FPGA's/CPLD's. All their outputs are really weird ass parallel 
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2020-09-11T22:55:58 < rajkosto> theres also  Blackfin SPORT
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2020-09-11T23:04:07 < zyp> con3, what do you expect it to be?
2020-09-11T23:04:19 < rajkosto> if it had LVDS then it would still be FPGA Only
2020-09-11T23:05:26 < con3> zyp: I mean I understand, just always thought FPGA would be way outside of anything I would do
2020-09-11T23:05:31 < zyp> a highspeed ADC naturally need an interface fast enough to move the data it produces
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2020-09-11T23:05:42 < zyp> parallel interfaces are dumb and fast
2020-09-11T23:05:44 < rajkosto> fpga is ez if youre just doing data shuffling
2020-09-11T23:05:47 < zyp> and then there's jesd204
2020-09-11T23:08:17 < con3> yeah, I mean looking at this ADC. it samples 10msps, but 2 channels at 14 bit each its going to hit 280 MHz at minimum. So definetly more suited for an FPGA
2020-09-11T23:09:00 < con3> FPGA's just seem like the dark arts, might be worth looking at it though
2020-09-11T23:09:21 < rajkosto> 280MHz if you did it serially
2020-09-11T23:09:33 < rajkosto> 10msps parallel is still only 10MHz
2020-09-11T23:09:57 < con3> rajkosto: yeah, just meant if I was to push it through a mcu
2020-09-11T23:11:40 < con3> but then again, I'm assuming any other interface to actually store the data is gonna be a bitch. like sdio,ethernet or usb. Hmm.. time to google a bit
2020-09-11T23:15:40 < zyp> 14 bit parallel at 10 MHz doesn't sound too hard to deal with, I guess maybe you could use DCMI to receive it
2020-09-11T23:23:23 < con3> yeah, i should prob look into cpld/fpga's though. I feel like in some cases I have abused mcu's in tasks better suited for fpga's just out of not wanting to touch pandoras box.
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--- Day changed Sat Sep 12 2020
2020-09-12T00:01:44 < karlp> heh, freertos finally upgraded their website design :)
2020-09-12T00:05:26 < karlp> and they've switched internal styule from tabs to spaces
2020-09-12T00:33:47 < Steffanx> I cant care less about the tabs vs spaces ;)
2020-09-12T00:34:27 < Steffanx> I dont see much of a change 
2020-09-12T00:35:11 < Steffanx> Looks pretty similar to me... freertos.org ?
2020-09-12T00:36:01 < catphish> spaces for me!!!!!!
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2020-09-12T00:40:39 < karlp> hrm, trying a "simpler" app on renode, I can connect a uart to a telnet port on the host, and I can get usart interrupts in gdb on that, but still not all working quite right
2020-09-12T00:40:42 < karlp> interesting though.
2020-09-12T00:40:50 < Steffanx> Then have your code editor do that for you catphish 
2020-09-12T00:41:36 < catphish> it does :)
2020-09-12T00:41:56 < Steffanx> Awesome. 😛
2020-09-12T00:43:33 < catphish> i might write a script that pulls all public repos from github, looks for tabs, replaces them with 4 spaces, and raises a pull request
2020-09-12T00:47:35 < Steffanx> I hope youll die in the process. Why.. just because ;)
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2020-09-12T00:51:17 < Cracki> tabs are superior. four spaces is for plebs slaving away at a mountani of java in some bank.
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2020-09-12T00:52:34 < Cracki> set your tab to 4 spaces equivalent because everyone does it and nobody ever sets tabs to 8 spaces
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2020-09-12T01:14:37 < machinehum> catphish: The would be a lot of Makefiles ruined that day
2020-09-12T01:14:41 < machinehum> there*
2020-09-12T01:15:10 < machinehum> Mostly from people like "oh wow thank, I'm a space person, didn't know I had tabs in my Makefiles!!"
2020-09-12T01:15:26 < Cracki> so vscode understands that backspace through spaces means dedent a tabful. https://github.com/microsoft/vscode/issues/49279
2020-09-12T01:16:26 < Cracki> huh, sublime text understands too. shit like that made me hate spacers because editors were too dumb to do it right.
2020-09-12T01:17:16 < Cracki> I always wondered how retarded spacers must be to tolerate having to hit backspace four times or shift-tab, when backspace ought to be enough
2020-09-12T01:20:51 < catphish> machinehum: yeah, as a space man, things with mandetory tabs make me sad
2020-09-12T01:20:57 < catphish> maybe i'll patch make too
2020-09-12T01:21:52 < machinehum> Pr into make
2020-09-12T01:22:14 < machinehum> There's like 40 ol' crusty's that would would make very mad
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2020-09-12T01:24:51 < Cracki> what's the reasoning behind being a spacer? you use the tab key. you treat it as a tab in every way.
2020-09-12T01:25:01 < Cracki> is it about being speshul?
2020-09-12T01:26:11 < Cracki> editors contain code that hides spaces and dresses them up as tabs. you're ashamed of your spaces.
2020-09-12T01:26:12 < rajkosto> oh hey i found a bluepill i dont use
2020-09-12T01:29:52 < machinehum> Bonus
2020-09-12T01:33:09 < rajkosto> well at least i can write code without waiting, after all 5 stm32 chips i had broken
2020-09-12T01:33:35 < catphish> Cracki: i'm pretty certain tabs are better 1) one character per indentation, no ambiguity 2) you can style the length of a tab however you like in your editor 3) the tab key makes sense
2020-09-12T01:33:55 < catphish> Cracki: and yet... i was taught with spaces, so i will defend them to the end of time
2020-09-12T01:34:12 < Cracki> it's all gonna be obsolete soon anyway
2020-09-12T01:34:28 < Cracki> text files, that's like clay tablets
2020-09-12T01:34:41 < catphish> of course, it doesn't matter, sane languages don't care what you do with your whitespace
2020-09-12T01:34:47 < catphish> so meh, go crazy
2020-09-12T01:35:03 < Cracki> show me a sane language and I might go crazy
2020-09-12T01:35:19 < catphish> C is sane :)
2020-09-12T01:35:43 < catphish> all other languages are varying degrees of crazy
2020-09-12T01:36:05 < Cracki> gnu indentation, one of the most retarded ones https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Indentation_style
2020-09-12T01:36:21 < Cracki> "haskell" takes the cake
2020-09-12T01:37:20 < catphish> horstmann is pretty mad
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2020-09-12T01:37:47 < Cracki> must have been a punch card user
2020-09-12T01:37:51 < Cracki> who never got punched
2020-09-12T01:38:05 < Cracki> Cay S. Horstmann is author of Core Java® for the Impatient (2015), Java SE 8 for the Really Impatient (2014), and Scala for the Impatient (2012), 
2020-09-12T01:38:24 < catphish> i like my curly braces on the same line as what comes before them
2020-09-12T01:38:44 < catphish> BSD style :)
2020-09-12T01:39:06 < Cracki> I've used 1tbs for a long time
2020-09-12T01:40:08 < catphish> ah yes, 1tbs is my style, but with 2-space indentation
2020-09-12T01:40:21 < catphish> and that's a hill i guess i'll die on :)
2020-09-12T01:40:35 < catphish> i think this is a hangover from ruby
2020-09-12T01:41:02 < Cracki> I can live with 2-3 spaces. feels a _bit_ cramped but if the screen is that narrow sure
2020-09-12T01:41:56 < catphish> like so :) https://github.com/catphish/flex-floppy/blob/master/usb.c
2020-09-12T01:42:04 < catphish> it's very compact i guess
2020-09-12T01:42:50 < Cracki> return with no space before the braces, that's like people who use sizeof like a function
2020-09-12T01:43:31 < Cracki> overall tidy. have you seen doctor /b/'s code recently?
2020-09-12T01:44:01 < catphish> i do basically pretend sizeof is a function
2020-09-12T01:45:04 < catphish> and i never (deliberatey) put spaces before parenthesis
2020-09-12T01:45:20 < catphish> and i have no idea what doctor /b/ is :)
2020-09-12T01:46:01 < Cracki> laurence
2020-09-12T01:46:12 < catphish> i don't think i have
2020-09-12T01:46:25 < Cracki> blessed virginity
2020-09-12T01:46:37 < Cracki> I'll have to look for an example now
2020-09-12T01:46:49 < catphish> i'm gonna try to do a project in cubeide for once, i need to write some really simple code, gonna see if i can live with a proper IDE
2020-09-12T01:50:07 < Cracki> what did you use so far?
2020-09-12T01:53:47 < catphish> i usually use vscode as a dumb editor and a bash script to call gcc
2020-09-12T01:54:21 < catphish> i like that, but sometimes i miss easy gui debugging
2020-09-12T01:54:27 < catphish> and auto completion :)
2020-09-12T01:56:52 < Cracki> examples https://pastebin.com/TQFb10bP https://pastebin.com/TyG1TUWX
2020-09-12T01:58:03 < catphish> hulyfuck
2020-09-12T01:58:15 < Cracki> I still have on my list to figure out what the easiest way is to get vscode to edit build and debug for stm32
2020-09-12T01:58:34 < Cracki> babbyshake code
2020-09-12T01:58:59 < catphish> i do like vscode, and presumably it does have C autocomplete plugins
2020-09-12T01:59:12 < catphish> so it would work nicely for me if it set it up right, but debugging is harder
2020-09-12T01:59:27 < Cracki> its autocomplete so far has been great, just like everyone is used to from microsoft
2020-09-12T01:59:33 < Cracki> fuck eclipse/cubeide
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2020-09-12T02:00:23 < Cracki> even if I can't get vscode to debug stm32 targets easily, it's still an upgrade from eclipse/cubeide or sublime text (which seems to have some support using LSP but fuck that)
2020-09-12T02:01:10 < catphish> i used sublime text until recently
2020-09-12T02:01:16 < catphish> but vscode seems better
2020-09-12T02:02:06 < catphish> looks like there is an stm32 plugin for vscode
2020-09-12T02:02:13 < catphish> "This is a supporting extension to setup STM32 projects generated from STM CubeMX. It automatically generates a makefile and starts the build process, it also adds debugging, build and flash configurations to the workspace."
2020-09-12T02:02:28 < catphish> seems worth a try!
2020-09-12T02:03:15 < Cracki> ye I found one or two of those plugins, haven't bothered to evaluate them
2020-09-12T02:06:16 < rajkosto> i cant remember why i brought out TDO on this side header i have for programming wtf
2020-09-12T02:06:24 < rajkosto> swd uses tdi and tck
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2020-09-12T02:12:00 < Cracki> where does SWO sit?
2020-09-12T02:12:24 < Cracki> all the china modules give 4 pins for swd but seem unaware of SWO
2020-09-12T02:12:29 < zyp> I don't think you need a stm32 plugin
2020-09-12T02:12:30 < rajkosto> TMS
2020-09-12T02:12:44 < rajkosto> oh yeah thats why i did it lol
2020-09-12T02:12:47 < zyp> doesn't it support gdbserver protocol out of the box?
2020-09-12T02:12:47 < rajkosto> swo
2020-09-12T02:12:52 < Cracki> "need", you know, "need" as in make it more convenient
2020-09-12T02:13:30 < Cracki> "support gdbserver", well that would still involve me figuring out how that works
2020-09-12T02:13:33 < zyp> yeah, yeah, but does it really?
2020-09-12T02:13:42 < Cracki> so "me figuring *this* out" is still the same to do list item
2020-09-12T02:14:05 < Cracki> and as far as I know you have to start the server separately
2020-09-12T02:14:08 < Cracki> and then it connects to it
2020-09-12T02:14:34 < Cracki> that are the rumors i've heard whenever "something 'supports' gdbserver" is said
2020-09-12T02:14:41 < zyp> I saw some document that said something about just make it start it
2020-09-12T02:14:47 < Cracki> I don't trust those claims to imply that it's starting all that shit on its own
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2020-09-12T02:15:15 < zyp> https://www.justinmklam.com/posts/2017/10/vscode-debugger-setup/ <- this shit and the first comment on this post
2020-09-12T02:15:38 < Cracki> people who are resistant to frustration and unnecessary complexity think nothing of having to dig through the innards of an editor
2020-09-12T02:15:59 < Cracki> >Before entering debug mode (F5), you need to launch the OpenOCD server. Open Terminal in VS Code (CTRL + ` ) and type:  openocd -f board\st_nucleo_f3.cfg
2020-09-12T02:16:10 < Cracki> oh I'm blocking disqus
2020-09-12T02:16:39 < Cracki> aha good "you can directly integrate"
2020-09-12T02:17:19 < zyp> I mean, this is not vscode specific, just vscode telling gdb to start openocd
2020-09-12T02:17:40 < Cracki> now I'm wondering what the syntax of that "autorun" list is... a pipe doesn't seem to be the pipe we all know and love
2020-09-12T02:18:08 < Cracki> see, I was hoping there's a plugin or something that _does_ this, so I don't have to know
2020-09-12T02:18:34 < Cracki> because I'm unlikely to touch or need to modify any of that plumbing
2020-09-12T02:19:00 < upgrdman> anyone here written a plugin for eclipse?
2020-09-12T02:19:35 < Cracki> this also looks like I'll have to put this into project files or sth, so I'll have to write it down and redo it for every new project, even the throwaway ones I'll delete in the afternoon
2020-09-12T02:19:52 < Cracki> but thx for finding this. it's a start at least.
2020-09-12T02:19:59 < zyp> I prefer knowing how shit fits together rather than relying on shit I don't know how to fix when it breaks
2020-09-12T02:20:12 < zyp> not always feasible, but still
2020-09-12T02:20:35 < Cracki> segger ozone works without me knowing their plumbing ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
2020-09-12T02:22:07 < Cracki> oh great this is a one-time configuration
2020-09-12T02:22:08 < zyp> I wish I knew segger ozone better, I use it for work and it sometimes behaves in ways I don't understand
2020-09-12T02:22:35 < Cracki> fuck, it's not. they got hardcoded paths in there
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2020-09-12T02:24:21 < zyp> sometimes ozone doesn't attach reliably to the target
2020-09-12T02:24:54 < zyp> sometimes the target gets into a faulting state that I can't get it out of
2020-09-12T02:24:55 < Cracki> I haven't used it _intensively_ but it has glitched a bit, decided to crash for some reason
2020-09-12T02:25:14 < zyp> in either case what works is to powercycle the target and start over
2020-09-12T02:25:36 < zyp> and I'm also not sure if connecting to a running target without resetting it works reliably
2020-09-12T02:26:29 < zyp> part of the problems might be poor compatibility between jlink and ti hercules
2020-09-12T02:27:08 < zyp> I mean, poor might be overstating it, worse than it could be
2020-09-12T02:28:06 < zyp> IIRC when I looked into it I got the impression that cortex-r is less standardized in how the debug port is set up than cortex-m
2020-09-12T02:28:44 < zyp> so it might work better on cortex-m
2020-09-12T02:29:11 < zyp> and then I'm making an unfair comparison between ozone/jlink on cortex-r vs gdb/bmp on cortex-m
2020-09-12T02:31:02 < Cracki> cortex r, implying you've paid big bucks to segger. they might be interested in tracing and debugging this
2020-09-12T02:31:24 < zyp> not big bucks, just a standard jlink
2020-09-12T02:33:01 < Cracki> oh nvm, I thought their support matrix segmented R into a higher price range. it doesn't
2020-09-12T02:34:02 < zyp> no reason it should, standard jlink can do cortex-a as well, right?
2020-09-12T02:35:12 < zyp> my impression is that cortex-r is somewhat a middle ground between -m and -a
2020-09-12T02:36:18 < Cracki> "should"? market segmentation is for making money. no "reason" required
2020-09-12T02:36:31 < zyp> it lacks the nice stuff that -m got, like the NVIC, and instead got the old IRQ/FIQ/VIC shit
2020-09-12T02:36:45 < zyp> so it's more like a cortex-a without the MMU
2020-09-12T02:37:31 < zyp> and sure
2020-09-12T02:37:59 < zyp> I just figure if -m and -a is in the same segment, -r belongs there too
2020-09-12T02:38:36 < catphish> well that lasted 10 minutes, cubeIDE seems to assume you want a HAL mess and has no other option :(
2020-09-12T02:38:48 < Cracki> my impression is that R has a special target audience
2020-09-12T02:39:13 < Cracki> not "mere microcontrollers", not "entertainment systems", but hard realtime but fast
2020-09-12T02:39:46 < Cracki> you can strip the comments out of that "hal mess" if you don't need to regenerate the code
2020-09-12T02:40:01 < zyp> it's not really clear to me where the dividing line between -m and -r goes
2020-09-12T02:40:38 < Cracki> me neither; I've never looked at R too closely. mostly looks like a lot faster, but still deterministic, and it must have some features M doesn't
2020-09-12T02:40:59 < zyp> well, the ti hercules has two cores in lockstep, it's a safety mcu
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2020-09-12T02:41:12 < Cracki> oh, R can run more than thumb
2020-09-12T02:41:14 < zyp> -m probably isn't designed to be set up like that
2020-09-12T02:41:23 < zyp> ah, right, forgot about that
2020-09-12T02:41:40 < Cracki> not sure why that'd be important tho. thumb sounds fine.
2020-09-12T02:41:42 < zyp> idgaf about that
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2020-09-12T02:41:46 < zyp> yeah
2020-09-12T02:42:30 < Cracki> smells more like legacy than anything
2020-09-12T02:42:44 < zyp> yes
2020-09-12T02:42:48 < Cracki> cortex R doesn't do interrupt tail chaining and other shenanigans? https://www.design-reuse.com/articles/26106/cortex-r-versus-cortex-m.html
2020-09-12T02:43:24 < zyp> tail chaining doesn't apply, it doesn't auto-push anything at all
2020-09-12T02:43:39 < zyp> it has banked registers instead
2020-09-12T02:43:51 < Cracki> ic
2020-09-12T02:45:10 < zyp> I guess because of that it has lower interrupt latency
2020-09-12T02:45:18 < Cracki> oh, ECC on cache and buses too
2020-09-12T02:45:22 < zyp> doesn't have to push state, just switches banks instead
2020-09-12T02:45:24 < zyp> yeah
2020-09-12T02:45:50 < zyp> safety mcu
2020-09-12T02:45:59 < zyp> two cores in lockstep and ECC everything
2020-09-12T02:46:11 < zyp> I believe even a bunch of the peripherals got ECC
2020-09-12T02:47:07 < Cracki> how usual is it to run different code on each core? how locksteppy is it, comparing just its outward behaviors, comparing every single instruction and operands, or some middle ground?
2020-09-12T02:47:18 < zyp> I don't think it's possible
2020-09-12T02:47:24 < Cracki> ic
2020-09-12T02:48:17 < zyp> I think they're set up so that they're fed the same data, one core one cycle delayed after the other
2020-09-12T02:48:17 < Cracki> oh, they're identical code but run offset by a few cycles to detect transients
2020-09-12T02:48:26 < Cracki> interesting
2020-09-12T02:48:38 < zyp> and the cores are also oriented differently on the die
2020-09-12T02:49:11 < zyp> bunch of shit to detect faults
2020-09-12T02:49:24 < zyp> not looking forward until actually putting that shit to use :p
2020-09-12T02:49:40 < Cracki> heh
2020-09-12T02:50:25 < zyp> so far I've been focusing on making everything work properly before making sure it also can fail properly
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2020-09-12T03:00:37 < Steffanx> So did you fix your switch issue mr zyp.
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2020-09-12T03:20:13 < rajkosto> how many ma should i make my heater draw
2020-09-12T03:21:59 < upgrdman> dongs, https://www.reddit.com/r/WatchPeopleDieInside/comments/iqqcse/that_moment_of_realization_that_hes_an_idiot/
2020-09-12T03:23:29 < rajkosto> WHY DOES HE DO IT AGAIN
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2020-09-12T03:24:38 < upgrdman> cool https://i.imgur.com/bjZlUQp.gifv
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2020-09-12T03:33:12 < Cracki> four legs, overconstrained, unless it's only driving three actively?
2020-09-12T03:34:27 < Cracki> the ball detection looks easy. nice black background, ball is bright. newbies always fuck up their "picture" and make their life unnecessarily hard
2020-09-12T03:35:52 < catphish> Cracki: i went back to my vscode and bach script, as i always do :)
2020-09-12T03:37:15 < Cracki> video has sound too https://imgur.com/bjZlUQp
2020-09-12T03:37:22 < jadew> have any of you seen any good movies lately?
2020-09-12T03:37:35 < jadew> I'm in need of some quality waste of time
2020-09-12T03:38:28 < catphish> i just enjoyed kobra kai, not a movie, but a stupid and fun waste of approx 10 hours
2020-09-12T03:38:37 < jadew> I know it
2020-09-12T03:38:46 < jadew> started it a couple of weeks ago
2020-09-12T03:38:59 < jadew> I just need something compact... 2 hours straight then back to work with new energy
2020-09-12T03:38:59 < catphish> for some reason i binge watched it in 2 nights :)
2020-09-12T03:40:37 < jadew> also, today I found out that protein bars are fucking delicious
2020-09-12T03:41:27 < jadew> tastes like bounty, has less sugar and about the same amount of protein as a steak! wish I knew that when I was living off of sweets in my 20s
2020-09-12T03:41:54 < Cracki> is it cheaper than a steak tho
2020-09-12T03:42:01 < jadew> yeah, that too
2020-09-12T03:42:05 < Cracki> nvm, probably. they wouldn't sell it otherwise.
2020-09-12T03:42:16 < Cracki> whey protein is sth
2020-09-12T03:42:19 < Cracki> or*
2020-09-12T03:42:37 < jadew> I think I read soy on the wrapper
2020-09-12T03:42:40 < Cracki> it won't turn you into a bull but an oak
2020-09-12T03:43:44 < Cracki> so it's some kind of waste product from milk. I wonder if they remove the lactose
2020-09-12T03:45:17 < catphish> interrupts overrated :) https://paste.ubuntu.com/p/hbfwkQkwBR/
2020-09-12T03:46:48 < catphish> taking bets on how many more LOC are needed before the engine actually runs :D
2020-09-12T03:51:24 < Cracki> I think you'll hook up potentiometers before long
2020-09-12T03:53:16 < catphish> Cracki: the first pot is nearly guaranteed to be needed immediately, to control that second sleep manually in real time :)
2020-09-12T03:53:54 < Cracki> maybe a synthesizer would be the right tool
2020-09-12T03:53:58 < catphish> the second pot will be a throttle position sensor to adjust it dynamically, but for now, idle will suffice!
2020-09-12T03:54:45 < catphish> https://i.imgur.com/xoaQn2t.png :)
2020-09-12T03:59:08 < catphish> disclaimer: i have no idea wtf i'm going, but hopefully some fuel will burn a bit
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2020-09-12T04:00:06 < Cracki> lasers https://twitter.com/PhoneFixCraft/status/1304525287208689669
2020-09-12T04:01:05 < catphish> neat
2020-09-12T04:01:21 < Cracki> hm great now I feel like ordering some slide pots off aliex
2020-09-12T04:01:59 < catphish> last time i accidentally bought audio curve ones
2020-09-12T04:02:13 < catphish> don't buy audio curve ones :)
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2020-09-12T04:05:18 < catphish> this is the most interesting component in my delivery: https://www.mouser.co.uk/datasheet/2/308/FGB3440G2_F085-D-1809096.pdf
2020-09-12T04:09:32 < catphish> i kinda wish all IGBTs and MOSFETs did this, seems self-protecting against inductive spikes
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2020-09-12T05:32:53 < rajkosto> https://images.sshnuke.net/2020-09-12_04-32-33_acLXHyKjU.jpg fully featured
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2020-09-12T06:14:13 < jadew> I'm watching the sequel for the babysitter... it's terrible so far
2020-09-12T06:16:15 < jadew> early highschool level dialogue
2020-09-12T06:16:40 < jadew> and by that I mean, what someone who just got into highschool would think a dialogue should sound like
2020-09-12T06:17:37 < jadew> whoever is making these movies must be braindead
2020-09-12T06:17:55 < jadew> lol, if you search for braindead on google you get this as the first result:
2020-09-12T06:18:00 < jadew> "Brain Dead is a creative collective of artists and designers from around the world."
2020-09-12T06:18:11 < jadew> that's a pretty good definition! Thank you google.
2020-09-12T06:27:07 < dongs> < upgrdman> dongs, https://www.reddit.com/r/WatchPeopleDieInside/comments/iqqcse/that_moment_of_realization_that_hes_an_idiot/ < fucking lol
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2020-09-12T06:35:32 < jadew> the whole subreddit is gold
2020-09-12T06:35:35 < jadew> https://www.reddit.com/r/WatchPeopleDieInside/comments/iqynta/oh_that_scream/
2020-09-12T06:36:07 < machinehum> Fuck
2020-09-12T06:36:11 < machinehum> That's awesome
2020-09-12T06:38:59 < jadew> https://www.reddit.com/r/WatchPeopleDieInside/comments/iqwj6l/teaching_younger_brother_how_to_skip_stones/
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2020-09-12T07:14:58 < jadew> https://www.reddit.com/r/WatchPeopleDieInside/comments/iq48wn/thief_dies_inside/
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2020-09-12T07:20:36 < rajkosto> https://www.aliexpress.com/item/4000103610226.html oh we are on STM32F401CCU6 now for the black pill ?
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2020-09-12T09:07:30 < jadew> https://www.bbc.com/news/world-latin-america-54109584
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2020-09-12T10:49:31 < rajkosto> man just as i rejiggered my ft232h to change firmware on stlink cuz i didnt have another stlink, i find the other stlink
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2020-09-12T11:55:32 < Streaker> smash it and throw it away and we'll just pretend that you didn't find it
2020-09-12T12:19:55 < rajkosto> its a spare chip at least
2020-09-12T12:24:18 < rajkosto> if i really need 5v i2c, what pullup should i use since stm32 cant drive high in that case
2020-09-12T12:28:34 < jpa-> 2 kohm is usually low enough for even 400kHz i2c
2020-09-12T12:28:54 < jpa-> if you are fine with lower speeds, you can use larger resistor to reduce power usage
2020-09-12T12:31:40 < rajkosto> whats fastest that 50k can do, my oscilloscope brok so i cant see how round the edges are
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2020-09-12T12:34:18 < jpa-> i would guess around ~20pF capacitance, giving 1us time constant; then multiply by 5 to have reasonably sharp edges and by 4 because of how i2c clock / data signals are sequenced, gives 20us so up to 50kHz should work
2020-09-12T12:34:27 < zyp> for i2c you aren't supposed to drive high either way
2020-09-12T12:34:44 < rajkosto> i know, but youre cool if you do
2020-09-12T12:34:51 < zyp> and if you're using FT pins for i2c, it doesn't matter if they are strongly pulled to 5V externally
2020-09-12T12:35:20 < zyp> heh
2020-09-12T12:35:28 < rajkosto> its what the 1MHz fast mode requires 
2020-09-12T12:35:37 < zyp> I did that once, running i2c in push-pull mode :)
2020-09-12T12:35:49 < rajkosto> super rare that a peripheral supports that mode tho
2020-09-12T12:35:59 < jpa-> i often run clock with push-pull
2020-09-12T12:36:24 < zyp> the symptoms were kinda weird, I had one slave responding but not another
2020-09-12T12:36:43 < zyp> hooked up a LA and saw the same, master was sending the request but slave was not responding
2020-09-12T12:36:59 < jpa-> oh, you mean not on purpose; yeah, i do that every time :)
2020-09-12T12:37:15 < zyp> checked with the scope, turned out slave was actually responding, just too weak to overcome the master driving high
2020-09-12T12:37:30 < zyp> think I got the screenshots somewhere
2020-09-12T12:37:39 < jpa-> http://jpa.kapsi.fi/stuff/pix/i2c_levels.png   but the edges were sharp!
2020-09-12T12:37:49 < zyp> haha
2020-09-12T12:37:56 < zyp> yeah, something like that
2020-09-12T12:40:25 < jpa-> http://jpa.kapsi.fi/stuff/pix/tek00000.png  at least it was better than my SPI bus
2020-09-12T12:42:23 < zyp> hmm, doesn't look like I saved a screenshot
2020-09-12T12:48:38 < rajkosto> what if its not i2c but a heater running at pretty low pwm freq
2020-09-12T12:49:09 < jpa-> ...
2020-09-12T12:52:23 < rajkosto> whatever firmware i had on the chip accidentally drove that line to 3.3v, so it wasnt at its resting 5v, so the mosfets conducted, and it heated pretty quick
2020-09-12T12:53:23 < rajkosto> youre not supposed to do that though, drive high when its connected to 5v via pullup, but pullup was huge so it didnt damage anything
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2020-09-12T16:27:45 < karlp> rad, monodevelop segfaults opening renode...
2020-09-12T16:31:04 < karlp> segfaults opening internal projects as well.
2020-09-12T16:31:06 < karlp> fantastic
2020-09-12T16:39:27 < karlp> nice, renode has a "STM32_Timer" class, that's the timer used in the stm32w (not the current one)
2020-09-12T16:39:48 < karlp> so every _other_ stm32, which all has the same timers, uses a special variant, instead of the W varient moving to a less generic name
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2020-09-12T17:04:48 < Steffanx> heh
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2020-09-12T17:26:13 < catphish> got my fuel pump set up :) https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JW7gV5C32RM
2020-09-12T17:29:17 < Steffanx> dont die catphish
2020-09-12T17:29:21 < mawk> what do you think of narrowband iot stuff
2020-09-12T17:29:32 < mawk> we dropped lora and gsm for that
2020-09-12T17:31:20 < Steffanx> we
2020-09-12T17:31:26 < Steffanx> i did not drop anything
2020-09-12T17:32:07 < catphish> Steffanx: i will try not to set myself on fire
2020-09-12T17:32:14 < Steffanx> alright
2020-09-12T17:35:24 < PaulFertser> catphish: got a fire extinguisher handy just in case?
2020-09-12T17:36:11 < catphish> nope!
2020-09-12T17:37:32 < PaulFertser> Multi-layered defense y'know
2020-09-12T17:37:54 < PaulFertser> Probably worth bringing one from your car and keep it nearby
2020-09-12T17:40:36 < catphish> why would i have a fire extinguisher in my car? i'm not a race driver :)
2020-09-12T17:40:42 < catphish> i genuinely don't own one at all
2020-09-12T17:43:25 < PaulFertser> catphish: huh? In russia the law says everybody must have one in a car. And it's been this way in the USSR times too.
2020-09-12T17:44:24 < catphish> well in defence of UK, i've never seen a car on fire, and if a car was on fire, advice would be to run the fuck away from it
2020-09-12T17:44:29 < PaulFertser> And there're some dashcam videos showing drivers assemble together to extinguish a fire in someone else's car.
2020-09-12T17:45:50 < PaulFertser> I've seen a car on fire once. In a tunnel! Apparently the fire just started and they didn't close the tunnel right away, so I had to drive past it (separated by a spare lane).
2020-09-12T17:46:47 < PaulFertser> s/spare/empty/
2020-09-12T17:47:13 < PaulFertser> Nobody was attempting to extinguish it but the fire was already strong enough and it was a tunnel.
2020-09-12T17:47:32 < PaulFertser> However I can see how having a fire extinguisher in every car might be helping in other situations.
2020-09-12T17:49:42 < PaulFertser> Do you also not have medical kits in cars?
2020-09-12T17:50:27 < catphish> PaulFertser: nope, in fact there's no requirement to have *anything* in your car in the UK
2020-09-12T17:51:39 < PaulFertser> catphish: not even a sign to put behind your car if you can't move it off the road in a nasty place?
2020-09-12T17:52:16 < catphish> PaulFertser: nope, though that's the one item of safety equipment i *do* have in my car
2020-09-12T17:53:01 < catphish> i canot seem to work out how this ignition coil is supposed to be wired up :(
2020-09-12T17:54:05 < PaulFertser> catphish: and how about a reflective vest to wear in the nighttime when you are forced outside in the night time?
2020-09-12T17:54:18 < PaulFertser> catphish: how many terminals does this coil have and what is the resistance between them?
2020-09-12T17:54:25 < catphish> PaulFertser: i think i've answered that and all similar questions already :)
2020-09-12T17:54:38 < catphish> just posting the info now, one sec
2020-09-12T17:54:58 < catphish> this is the device https://i.imgur.com/V2CmaF4.jpg
2020-09-12T17:55:29 < PaulFertser> catphish: looks pretty much like my motor bike coil
2020-09-12T17:55:45 < catphish> PaulFertser: it is a motor bike coil
2020-09-12T17:56:23 < PaulFertser> catphish: so probably it assumes a reasonably high-voltage (100+ V) pulse on the primary winding, from a CDI board.
2020-09-12T17:56:27 < catphish> PaulFertser: the problem is that basically all the connections (apart from the lead to the plug) are les than 1 ohm
2020-09-12T17:57:02 < catphish> one might be just a tiny bit (like 200mOhm) higher
2020-09-12T17:57:10 < catphish> but my meter isn't that accurate
2020-09-12T17:58:09 < catphish> so the first point to note here is that the chassis mounting is < 1 ohm away from *all* the other connections, that means it can't accept a permenent 12v as i would have expected
2020-09-12T17:58:11 < PaulFertser> catphish: for my coil the rated resistance is: primary 0.32 -- 0.48; secondary 5.68 -- 8.52k (k!)
2020-09-12T17:58:31 < catphish> so this thing needs a high side switch? :(
2020-09-12T17:58:40 < PaulFertser> catphish: motor bike coils usually need CDI
2020-09-12T17:58:45 < PaulFertser> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Capacitor_discharge_ignition
2020-09-12T17:59:08 < catphish> well that's a pain! i'll bin it and buy a car coil
2020-09-12T17:59:25 < catphish> because i only have a low side IGBT to drive it
2020-09-12T17:59:57 < mawk> we as in me and colleagues Steffanx 
2020-09-12T18:00:06 < mawk> not we as in the ##stm32 club
2020-09-12T18:00:09 < catphish> and yeah, secondary here is 3.7kOhm
2020-09-12T18:00:19 < catphish> but primary, is hard to measure, or even find
2020-09-12T18:01:05 < catphish> but one terminal does seem to be at about 0.2Ohm
2020-09-12T18:01:12 < catphish> so that should be the primary
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2020-09-12T18:02:02 < catphish> i don't have access to 100+V, i was very much relying on inductive discharge :(
2020-09-12T18:02:50 < catphish> ebay's got my back :) https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Powerspark-Sports-Ignition-Coil-25-Uprated-3-Ohm-12v/133320460537
2020-09-12T18:03:02 < PaulFertser> catphish: car coil it is then
2020-09-12T18:05:43 < PaulFertser> catphish: you do have access to 100+ V. Rectify mains and charge a cap with it, then discharge to primary.
2020-09-12T18:07:50 < catphish> PaulFertser: i don't think i will be doing that
2020-09-12T18:09:29 < PaulFertser> Agreed, that doesn't sound like a good solution to the task in general.
2020-09-12T18:24:14 < zyp> catphish, IIRC car coils also needs high side switching
2020-09-12T18:25:34 < zyp> I mean, depends on the coil, but the ones I've used was high side switched
2020-09-12T18:26:33 < catphish> i think older cars used a low side switch, with the high side just being connected to the ignition switch then the battery
2020-09-12T18:26:41 < catphish> so i'll look for that find
2020-09-12T18:26:44 < catphish> *kind
2020-09-12T18:26:46 < PaulFertser> zyp: http://www.kronjäger.de/hv/hv/src/ign/ignition1.png
2020-09-12T18:27:01 < zyp> hmm
2020-09-12T18:28:52 < PaulFertser> I think the problem with using a motor bike coil for catphish's purposes is just the voltage, not the side.
2020-09-12T18:29:24 < zyp> you're right, I misremembered
2020-09-12T18:30:23 < zyp> the car I had had an external coil driver module with an active high input, so that's why I needed a high side output from the EFI system
2020-09-12T18:30:59 < catphish> yeah, i could probably deal with the polarity, but not the voltage
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2020-09-12T18:39:44 < catphish> ordered a classic car coil, that should do the job, will probably need to source a HT lead separately, but that's okay
2020-09-12T18:40:38 < zyp> 16:50:27 < catphish> PaulFertser: nope, in fact there's no requirement to have *anything* in your car in the UK
2020-09-12T18:40:42 < zyp> huh
2020-09-12T18:41:37 < catphish> what i said.
2020-09-12T18:41:37 < zyp> we are required to have at least one high visibility vest
2020-09-12T18:41:51 < zyp> and probably also the emergency triangle sign
2020-09-12T18:42:47 < zyp> not sure anything else is mandatory, apart from the registration papers
2020-09-12T18:42:54 < PaulFertser> UK also allows reversing through intersections "if you're careful".
2020-09-12T18:43:35 < zyp> fire extinguisher and medical kit is not mandatory (and I don't have those)
2020-09-12T18:43:56 < catphish> in the UK: It is recommended, but not compulsory, that you carry: a warning triangle, first-aid kit, fire extinguisher, and a reflective jacket to wear in the event of a breakdown.
2020-09-12T18:44:42 < catphish> some people have most of those things, never seen anyone with an extinguisher though
2020-09-12T18:45:03 < PaulFertser> And yet it comes before the vest in the list.
2020-09-12T18:45:11 < catphish> also, the rules of the road aren't really law in the UK, you can do anything as long as you can justify that it's the right choice (ie not dangerous)
2020-09-12T18:45:30 < zyp> checked the list now, warning triangle and vest is mandatory, other stuff are nice to haves
2020-09-12T18:45:51 < catphish> there's a few specific laws, like speed limits, and a requirement to stop at red lights / stop signs, but that's pretty much it
2020-09-12T18:46:02 < zyp> but really
2020-09-12T18:46:19 < zyp> we all know UK drivers are weird, they all drive on the wrong side of the road
2020-09-12T18:46:46 < catphish> we do drive on the wrong side of the road it's true
2020-09-12T18:48:18 < catphish> the UK has an extremely low vehicle accident rate though :)
2020-09-12T18:48:58 < PaulFertser> russia is awful in that regard :(
2020-09-12T18:49:28 < catphish> zyp: norway is one of only about 5 country that has us beat
2020-09-12T18:51:07 < zyp> I see quite a few UK cars around here every summer, wonder how disorienting it is to drive a RHD car on the right side of the road
2020-09-12T18:51:17 < catphish> wtf, this data says somalia has 6,532 fatalities per year per 100,000 cars
2020-09-12T18:51:20 < zyp> (or a LHD car on the left for that matter)
2020-09-12T18:51:22 < catphish> who the fuck would get in a car with those odds
2020-09-12T18:52:13 < catphish> only 25 fatalities per 100,000 *people* though, so i geuss the answer is not many people risk it!
2020-09-12T18:52:57 < catphish> zyp: UK people pretty commonly take cars to europe, it's not *that* hard
2020-09-12T18:53:23 < zyp> didn't say it was hard, just disorienting
2020-09-12T18:54:05 < zyp> I've driven RHD in japan before, switching between LHD and RHD is pretty natural since you just need to keep opposing traffic on your side of the car
2020-09-12T18:54:16 < catphish> surprisingly not
2020-09-12T18:54:56 < catphish> i think i'd find it more disorienting driving a LHD car
2020-09-12T18:55:03 < catphish> (i've never tried)
2020-09-12T18:55:42 < zyp> only disorienting part of LHD vs RHD is keeping track of what's what of blinkers and wipers
2020-09-12T18:55:56 < zyp> everything else feels obvious
2020-09-12T18:58:58 < zyp> I should drive to the UK some time and see
2020-09-12T18:59:13 < boddax> still alive in UK the TVR car brand ?
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2020-09-12T19:09:07 < R2COM> and US measurement system is shit
2020-09-12T19:09:25 < R2COM> incompatible and not friendly with 0's
2020-09-12T19:09:31 < zyp> freedom units?
2020-09-12T19:09:43 < R2COM> metric means all 0s at end
2020-09-12T19:09:47 < R2COM> not the case with US shit
2020-09-12T19:10:27 < R2COM> 1meter, and then all around it divisible by 10
2020-09-12T19:12:53 < zyp> US dates too
2020-09-12T19:13:08 < R2COM> yeah its logical to start with day, then month, then longest which is year
2020-09-12T19:13:54 < zyp> I've come to prefer year, month, day
2020-09-12T19:14:10 < zyp> i.e. ISO 8601
2020-09-12T19:14:24 < zyp> makes everything unambiguous
2020-09-12T19:15:00 < R2COM> i propose new format, should start from time when solar system was formed, not from the date when some middle eastern man was born
2020-09-12T19:15:08 < R2COM> should be coded in hex for compactness
2020-09-12T19:15:37 < zyp> haha
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2020-09-12T19:17:10 < R2COM> oh wait thats gonna be long too, 4.571 billion years is 0x41f1073ecc000000
2020-09-12T19:17:16 < R2COM> not practical
2020-09-12T19:17:39 < Steffanx> What if the idea of "solar system formed"-time changed
2020-09-12T19:17:46 < R2COM> age of earth is comparable, 4.543b years
2020-09-12T19:17:48 < Steffanx> also its highly inaccurate, as a start point.
2020-09-12T19:18:34 < zyp> the japanese format where they count the years since the ascension of the emperor is fun, means they start over from 0 every couple decades
2020-09-12T19:18:45 < R2COM> ok lets count from how old human is
2020-09-12T19:18:48 < R2COM> ~!200k years
2020-09-12T19:18:50 < R2COM> so
2020-09-12T19:18:55 < R2COM> 0x30d40
2020-09-12T19:19:09 < R2COM> just 1 digit more than yyy format
2020-09-12T19:19:16 < zyp> I think we're currently at Reiwa 1 or something, since they got a new emperor last year
2020-09-12T19:19:26 < zyp> or maybe 2, forgot if they start at 0 or 1
2020-09-12T19:20:37 < R2COM> todays date for humans is: 30d40/09/0c
2020-09-12T19:20:43 < R2COM> ^
2020-09-12T19:20:54 < R2COM> true date for those (humans) who count it
2020-09-12T19:21:07 < catphish> we have a similar system, we just haven't had a new christ in a while
2020-09-12T19:21:23 < zyp> haha, good point
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2020-09-12T19:38:54 < GenTooMan> right you have to state what period you were born in to get how old you are. I can see why they use the calendar systems interchangeably they are both good for different things.
2020-09-12T19:53:30 < catphish> this ignition coil thing is still a pain :( http://www.kronjäger.de/hv/hv/src/ign/ignition1.png this diagram is fine, the problem however is that the HV (spark) has to be able to discharge through the low side switch :(
2020-09-12T19:54:29 < PaulFertser> catphish: hm, no, the low side switch is disconnected, then the spark happens
2020-09-12T19:55:06 < catphish> PaulFertser: but... whats the circuit path for the high voltage?
2020-09-12T19:55:25 < catphish> if the low side switch is open, i see no circuit :(
2020-09-12T19:56:27 < catphish> i'd be happy with it if the transformer was isolated like this: https://www.rohm.com/documents/11405/4767327/img_01.gif/5aec6ce5-f4e5-4639-9b95-dd8342e363f6?t=1490738382653
2020-09-12T19:57:16 < PaulFertser> catphish: via the battery
2020-09-12T19:57:22 < catphish> PaulFertser: oh, is that okay?
2020-09-12T19:57:36 < PaulFertser> catphish: apparently yes, all the voltage drops on the coil and the gap anyway.
2020-09-12T19:58:11 < catphish> that should be good then, i totally missed the battery when i was looking at it
2020-09-12T19:58:50 < PaulFertser> catphish: btw, did you see "points" in action?
2020-09-12T19:59:18 < catphish> PaulFertser: yes, my engine has points
2020-09-12T19:59:42 < catphish> i think i understand the concept
2020-09-12T19:59:54 < PaulFertser> We had that on vaz 2101 but then my father bought an electronic kit with a hall sensor and it totally rocked.
2020-09-12T20:00:02 < PaulFertser> I mean on some vehicle you're actually using :)
2020-09-12T20:00:19 < catphish> i certainy don't have points on a vehicle, no
2020-09-12T20:00:28 < catphish> my parents had one in the early 90s
2020-09-12T20:01:22 < PaulFertser> I tried to help with starting a motorbike with that system a week ago (spotted a bloke having issues at the side of a road).
2020-09-12T20:02:41 < PaulFertser> By carefully manipulating the throttle it started once but then it was all in vain. The spark was quite low :/ And the guy really tired trying to kickstart those 650cc (without a decompressor!). I couldn't help him kicking because I was in a road racing push bike shoes.
2020-09-12T20:03:39 < PaulFertser> points suck :/
2020-09-12T20:05:44 < catphish> the points in my current engine are now acting as a digital sensor
2020-09-12T20:06:08 < catphish> when they close, my stm32 will fire the spark :)
2020-09-12T20:06:38 < PaulFertser> catphish: are they fixed or have some regulator depending on RPM?
2020-09-12T20:06:57 < catphish> fixed afaik
2020-09-12T20:07:46 < catphish> but my software might be able to adjust the timing once a high enough RPM is reached
2020-09-12T20:08:20 < PaulFertser> I wonder if it's better to arrange it to be late or advanced. 
2020-09-12T20:09:05 < catphish> well it's much easier / more reliable for the software to retard it, then it doesn't have to try to pre-empt the signal
2020-09-12T20:09:53 < catphish> but i have no choice when the points close, so i'll just have to see what happens
2020-09-12T20:10:15 < catphish> one problem is that i have no idea how to know if my timing is is too far ahead or behind, but hopefully i'll get a feel for it
2020-09-12T20:11:32 < PaulFertser> catphish: you'll get "pinking" if it's too far behind.
2020-09-12T20:11:55 < PaulFertser> catphish: and the kick lever can fight you back when starting
2020-09-12T20:12:10 < catphish> i thought that was if it was too far ahead
2020-09-12T20:12:23 < catphish> ie fully ignites before TDC
2020-09-12T20:12:33 < PaulFertser> Probably I'm not using ahead/behind properly
2020-09-12T20:13:12 < catphish> anyway, yes, if the ignition is too early, i would expect what you said
2020-09-12T20:13:26 < catphish> if it's too late, i guess maybe some flames in the exhaust
2020-09-12T20:13:36 < PaulFertser> Yeah
2020-09-12T20:13:49 < catphish> well that sounds fun, i'll aim for too late to begin with
2020-09-12T20:13:56 < catphish> less likely to do damage that way
2020-09-12T20:14:02 < PaulFertser> Some fuel will be exhausted before being burn, and so they'll get ignited by the heated exhaust.
2020-09-12T20:14:19 < catphish> i would imagine it will already be burning as it's ejected
2020-09-12T20:14:38 < PaulFertser> I guess that can damage the valve seats.
2020-09-12T20:14:50 < catphish> true
2020-09-12T20:15:08 < PaulFertser> It should be burning for half of a turn and by the end of it, it should all be done, then exhausted.
2020-09-12T20:15:51 < catphish> this is my concept setup so far: https://i.imgur.com/AjoXWVf.jpg
2020-09-12T20:16:30 < catphish> and to begin with, the software will do this: https://paste.ubuntu.com/p/hbfwkQkwBR/
2020-09-12T20:16:35 < catphish> and i'll see what happens
2020-09-12T20:18:29 < PaulFertser> catphish: I suggest you first prepare a testbench that would allow you to measure what pulse length would correspond to what petrol amount.
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2020-09-12T20:22:32 < PaulFertser> catphish: with "points" the coil is "charged" for most of the time, with short periods of discharge. Your code does differently.
2020-09-12T20:23:11 < PaulFertser> catphish: you'll also want to skip every other "CRANKSENSOR" pulse I guess?
2020-09-12T20:24:09 < PaulFertser> And you need to start at the right one :)
2020-09-12T20:25:06 < PaulFertser> (assuming your points are on the crankshaft)
2020-09-12T20:31:37 < catphish> PaulFertser: i think points can vary hugely, and i'm really not sure whether i have the right setup or not, right now i have the gap adjusted in such a way that they seem to only close for a short period, if that's wrong, i'll have to adjust them so they're closed for longer, and my software will have to be adjusted to charge the coil more, and respond to the points opening
2020-09-12T20:31:48 < PaulFertser> catphish: I mean you can measure the amount of fuel per your pulse and calculate how much fuel you need based on cylinder displacement and that should get you at about the right point for the initial tests.
2020-09-12T20:32:09 < catphish> PaulFertser: for for skipping every other revolution, there's no need really, a spark at the end of the exhaust cycle is harmless
2020-09-12T20:32:35 < PaulFertser> catphish: a spark of course, and that's how many engines did it. But your code would also inject fuel.
2020-09-12T20:32:36 < catphish> i don't have specs for the injector, so i really have no choice but guesswork afaik
2020-09-12T20:32:43 < PaulFertser> catphish: you have choice!
2020-09-12T20:32:56 < catphish> yes, i thought 2 injections per cycle would be better than one
2020-09-12T20:32:57 < PaulFertser> catphish: just use a measuring vessel to see what it gives you.
2020-09-12T20:33:07 < catphish> oh yeah, i could do that
2020-09-12T20:33:37 < catphish> i just realised, i may already have a good enough ignition coil, i pulled the coil out of the magneto i was about to bin :)
2020-09-12T20:33:44 < PaulFertser> Injections in the wrong cycle would be a bad thing to do.
2020-09-12T20:34:25 < catphish> to clarify, i'm injecting into the intake manifold, before the valves, not the cylinder
2020-09-12T20:34:27 < PaulFertser> You'd be injecting right into your exhaust, that makes no sense, you'll have it burning there
2020-09-12T20:35:07 < PaulFertser> catphish: I think you should be injecting only while the air flows, no?  
2020-09-12T20:35:19 < catphish> well i'm really not sure about that yet
2020-09-12T20:35:40 < catphish> maybe yes
2020-09-12T20:35:45 < catphish> but also maybe it doesn't matter
2020-09-12T20:35:54 < PaulFertser> Probably
2020-09-12T20:36:02 < PaulFertser> I gotta reread one article about that, I can't remember the details.
2020-09-12T20:38:28 < zyp> it doesn't matter
2020-09-12T20:39:03 < zyp> my old car had a four cyl engine, one injector per cylinder but all in the same bank, so they all fired together
2020-09-12T20:39:39 < catphish> i've also heard of them having crazy high duty cycles, and basically injecting all the time
2020-09-12T20:40:41 < zyp> well, yeah, you'd size the injector so it can still provide a proper AFR at full throttle and max rpm
2020-09-12T20:41:00 < zyp> unless you're really oversizing it, you'll be approaching 100% duty there
2020-09-12T20:41:09 < catphish> so, this megneto coil might work as an ignition coil
2020-09-12T20:41:55 < catphish> i don't know what my duty cycle will be like at all, i tried to roughly match the size of the injector to the size of the engine though
2020-09-12T20:41:56 < zyp> I mean, consider the physics of it, the engine is an air pump, the faster it goes and the higher the throttle is, the more air you're pumping
2020-09-12T20:42:43 < zyp> and for a given mixture, the fuel requirement is increasing proportionally with the air mass
2020-09-12T20:43:36 < zyp> (and then you're also generally running the richest mixture at high load)
2020-09-12T20:45:05 < catphish> presumably ideally you're running the ideal mixture at all times
2020-09-12T20:45:13 < zyp> I guess you could ballpark the required fuel flow pretty well if you know the displacement and max rpm
2020-09-12T20:45:16 < zyp> no
2020-09-12T20:45:32 < catphish> why would you run richer at ligher load?
2020-09-12T20:46:06 < zyp> wrong, you run leaner at lighter load
2020-09-12T20:46:12 < catphish> *higher load
2020-09-12T20:46:24 < catphish> sorry, no idea why i typed ligher
2020-09-12T20:46:37 < catphish> but why?
2020-09-12T20:47:11 < zyp> I don't remember exactly :)
2020-09-12T20:47:30 < catphish> i guess there comes a point where the air density won't go any lower
2020-09-12T20:47:35 < catphish> but you can still put in less fuel
2020-09-12T20:48:04 < catphish> in fact for example in a car, when you're coasting, you inject no fuel, but there isn't a perfect vacuum in the cylinders
2020-09-12T20:48:19 < catphish> so you're definitely right to some extent
2020-09-12T20:48:23 < zyp> but I guess intuitively that it's something like it gets harder to get a perfect burn at higher loads
2020-09-12T20:49:07 < catphish> well i'd better start building this breadboard
2020-09-12T20:49:10 < zyp> hmm
2020-09-12T20:49:28 < catphish> looks like all i need initially is 2 transistors
2020-09-12T20:49:29 < zyp> or rather, it has to do with reducing knocking
2020-09-12T20:49:31 < zyp> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Engine_knocking
2020-09-12T20:49:45 < PaulFertser> catphish: I've read that for long coasting sessions the ECU will still provide some fuel every now and then to keep the cat. converter working properly.
2020-09-12T20:49:48 < zyp> I guess richening the mixture makes it a bit harder to ignite
2020-09-12T20:49:59 < catphish> PaulFertser: seems plausible :)
2020-09-12T20:50:11 < zyp> yes
2020-09-12T20:50:12 < zyp> «enriching the air–fuel ratio which alters the chemical reactions during combustion, reduces the combustion temperature and increases the margin to detonation
2020-09-12T20:50:15 < zyp> »
2020-09-12T20:50:38 < catphish> PaulFertser: though you'd think passing nothing but air through the cat woudn't be that much of a problem, shrug
2020-09-12T20:50:48 < catphish> anyway, i'm nowhere near worrying about the finer details yet :)
2020-09-12T20:51:04 < GenTooMan> the beginnings of the Open ECU project...
2020-09-12T20:51:18 < zyp> :)
2020-09-12T20:51:40 < zyp> if I still drove ICE cars, it'd be fun to do something like that
2020-09-12T20:51:51 < PaulFertser> fwiw, on my motor bike with full throttle the mixture is really lean, and people say that making it normal doesn't affect max power/speed anyhow.
2020-09-12T20:51:54 < catphish> step 1 is to get the hardware working, step 2 is to find a hardcoded amount of fuel and ignition timing that will actually make the engine run
2020-09-12T20:56:09 < R2COM> i am thinking to switch to bev car
2020-09-12T20:56:21 < R2COM> > audi etron
2020-09-12T20:57:11 < R2COM> but fuel wont go anywhere for next many years...all this oil price reduction is bs
2020-09-12T20:57:26 < R2COM> btw i think its a total joke that teslas stock price bumped 3x
2020-09-12T20:57:36 < R2COM> its absolutely unjustified by anything materialistic whatsoever
2020-09-12T20:57:58 < R2COM> tesla didnt make any new production related profit to have its stock being bumped
2020-09-12T20:58:31 < zyp> well, duh
2020-09-12T20:59:02 < R2COM> but ICE is not going to die either...
2020-09-12T20:59:19 < R2COM> you cant have main battle tank (50t+) with operation range 500km+ with electric.....
2020-09-12T21:00:11 < zyp> not saying ICE is going to die, I'm just not planning on buying an ICE car again
2020-09-12T21:01:07 < R2COM> because of immediate torque feeling?
2020-09-12T21:02:03 < zyp> not the main reason, but part of it, I guess
2020-09-12T21:02:07 < R2COM> i guess once i switch to electric ill stay there, its totally fine for cars to be electric
2020-09-12T21:02:28 < englishman> it feels weird, awkward and wasteful to go to a gas station now
2020-09-12T21:02:39 < englishman> as the car takes 8 seconds to charge
2020-09-12T21:02:47 < englishman> and it fills up at home and at work
2020-09-12T21:03:38 < zyp> yeah, cost and convenience are the big reasons
2020-09-12T21:03:42 < catphish> the dc resistance of this primary i took from the magneto is < 0.5 ohm, so i might wait for the somewhat safer 3 ohm one :)
2020-09-12T21:03:52 < englishman> also you won't miss the maintenance
2020-09-12T21:04:16 < catphish> i have a long term goal to build my own EV
2020-09-12T21:04:42 < catphish> currently building a garage, once that's done it might actually be a possibility
2020-09-12T21:04:45 < zyp> according to my estimates, by the time the battery warranty runs out at 8 years, I will have saved fuel costs equivalent to half the purchase price of the car
2020-09-12T21:05:12 < catphish> friend of mine is buying a model3
2020-09-12T21:05:29 < catphish> those are pretty cool, and those battery warranties are impressibe
2020-09-12T21:05:41 < englishman> cool, ask him for a ride
2020-09-12T21:05:51 < R2COM> what car you drive?
2020-09-12T21:06:00 < zyp> me? e-golf
2020-09-12T21:06:06 < catphish> i have a 2012 golf gti
2020-09-12T21:06:14 < R2COM> does it have battery cooling system?
2020-09-12T21:06:17 < englishman> dono how restricted the autopilot is in UK but it's pretty nice here I use it for about 90% of driving
2020-09-12T21:06:19 < zyp> no
2020-09-12T21:06:28 < R2COM> total nogo for my area
2020-09-12T21:06:36 < zyp> yeah, possible
2020-09-12T21:06:44 < catphish> probably not much use here either
2020-09-12T21:06:56 < catphish> but idk, good for long distance
2020-09-12T21:07:12 < R2COM> generally electric cars super fast on startup, however; once on a highway going against powerful ICE engine, they cant push more
2020-09-12T21:07:33 < catphish> depends on the power i guess :)
2020-09-12T21:07:37 < R2COM> on bmw m5 you drive at 150kmh and push all way forward you feel kick and can go to 180-190kmh
2020-09-12T21:07:40 < englishman> well I spend most of my time under 160km/h so idk if that's relevant
2020-09-12T21:07:45 < zyp> the only time I've missed having battery cooling was when I went to germany a couple of years ago during a heatwave or some shit
2020-09-12T21:07:48 < R2COM> wont have that "power" feeling with tesla or anything starting at 150kmh
2020-09-12T21:08:26 < catphish> i basically want to build a lightweight EV that can accellerate like a motorbike, doesn't really need to do much more than 100kph though
2020-09-12T21:08:39 < R2COM> one could argue that "you dont do it often on everyday car when driving to work" and thats true though
2020-09-12T21:08:40 < zyp> mostly went ok, but at the last charging stop of the day the battery was so hot it was halving the charging speed or something
2020-09-12T21:08:41 < R2COM> but just saying
2020-09-12T21:08:44 < englishman> if driving at 200km/h is a requirement for you than a family sedan might not be for you
2020-09-12T21:08:52 < catphish> sadly batteries screw you on weight
2020-09-12T21:09:26 < catphish> but something fast / light with minimum range would be cool
2020-09-12T21:09:40 < zyp> the thing that annoys me is that few EVs here are approved for towing trailers
2020-09-12T21:09:56 < catphish> model 3 is, i've not checked others
2020-09-12T21:10:08 < zyp> it's getting better now, but for a long time TMX was the only thing that could tow a reasonable trailer
2020-09-12T21:10:10 < R2COM> lol what you gonna be able to tow with egolf?
2020-09-12T21:10:15 < catphish> trailer towing is weird / dumb though :( it's the reason i have a gti and not a R
2020-09-12T21:10:30 < catphish> golf gti can tow, but golf R can't
2020-09-12T21:10:34 < zyp> catphish, IIRC TM3 is approved for 750kg
2020-09-12T21:10:35 < catphish> which is dumb, it's the same car!
2020-09-12T21:10:47 < zyp> catphish, also e-golf
2020-09-12T21:10:54 < zyp> and GTE
2020-09-12T21:11:01 < catphish> they all can't?
2020-09-12T21:11:07 < zyp> GTE can!
2020-09-12T21:11:13 < catphish> well that's good
2020-09-12T21:11:19 < R2COM> is egolf... 2 motors in drivetrain?
2020-09-12T21:11:25 < zyp> I'm gonna borrow a GTE on monday to go pick up the air compressor I'm renting
2020-09-12T21:11:25 < catphish> i'd def look at  GTE
2020-09-12T21:11:33 < catphish> but iirc it's not really that fast :(
2020-09-12T21:11:48 < zyp> faster than any of the speed limits here
2020-09-12T21:12:19 < R2COM> vw official page for egolf is blank
2020-09-12T21:12:24 < R2COM> lols..
2020-09-12T21:12:27 < zyp> it's obsolete
2020-09-12T21:12:35 < zyp> they've stopped making them
2020-09-12T21:12:54 < zyp> neighbor just bought one from the last run
2020-09-12T21:13:01 < R2COM> https://insideevs.com/news/401653/2020-vw-e-golf-canceled-us/
2020-09-12T21:13:03 < R2COM> hah
2020-09-12T21:13:07 < zyp> they are being replaced with the ID.3
2020-09-12T21:13:09 < R2COM> nvm, its small car for me anyway
2020-09-12T21:13:22 < zyp> also true, I'd like something a bit larger
2020-09-12T21:14:23 < zyp> I've budgeted on keeping the e-golf until the battery warranty runs out, will be interesting to see what's available on the market at that time
2020-09-12T21:14:32 < englishman> catphish: isn't the golf r AWD?
2020-09-12T21:14:45 < zyp> ID.4 looks like it might be interesting, TMY might be interesting
2020-09-12T21:14:54 < englishman> if so then it has that shitty haldex center diff that breaks if you breathe on it
2020-09-12T21:15:13 < zyp> and probably a bunch of other options that aren't announced yet :)
2020-09-12T21:15:25 < R2COM> i dont see drivetrain mentioning on id4
2020-09-12T21:15:27 < englishman> I liked the tmy until I saw it, it's the model 3's fat sister
2020-09-12T21:15:28 < R2COM> is it 2 motors or 1
2020-09-12T21:15:55 < zyp> idk
2020-09-12T21:16:14 < zyp> so far what I know about ID.4 is that they are promising towing capability :p
2020-09-12T21:16:36 < R2COM> id imagine its gonna be 1 motor if estimated porice $35k
2020-09-12T21:16:51 < zyp> as long as it's more than 0 I'm happy
2020-09-12T21:17:37 < R2COM> here, get this:
2020-09-12T21:17:38 < R2COM> https://www.audiusa.com/us/web/en/models/e-tron/e-tron/2021/overview/packages-options.html
2020-09-12T21:17:45 < R2COM> and tow anything
2020-09-12T21:18:20 < zyp> in that price range I think I'd rather get TMX
2020-09-12T21:18:41 < englishman> the étron has oil change reminders that pop up at 8000km intervals
2020-09-12T21:18:42 < R2COM> whats tmx
2020-09-12T21:19:01 < zyp> in the head to head comparisons I've read, TMX has been coming out ahead of e-tron and i-pace
2020-09-12T21:19:21 < R2COM> which brand is tmx cant see it
2020-09-12T21:20:07 < boddax> wow 67thau $  i prefer to buy monarch is electric too
2020-09-12T21:20:29 < zyp> tesla model x
2020-09-12T21:21:24 < R2COM> ohhh
2020-09-12T21:21:27 < R2COM> no
2020-09-12T21:21:29 < R2COM> lol
2020-09-12T21:21:36 < boddax> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IrJZFT-0FOs
2020-09-12T21:21:45 < R2COM> im not buying tesla
2020-09-12T21:21:55 < R2COM> its a hipster trash with no style
2020-09-12T21:22:15 < englishman> cool boddax
2020-09-12T21:22:16 < R2COM> 67k$ for etron is basic package
2020-09-12T21:22:24 < englishman> imagine if it has a tank full of gasoline
2020-09-12T21:22:28 < R2COM> for full happiness one needs full package its $80k
2020-09-12T21:22:30 < englishman> how dangerous that would be
2020-09-12T21:22:37 < R2COM> so basically $80k and all set
2020-09-12T21:23:04 < R2COM> but one needs to make some calculations, im not sure how $80k - 8yr plays out
2020-09-12T21:23:15 < boddax> lithium is dangerous
2020-09-12T21:23:17 < R2COM> it might just be beneficial at that point to lease a car
2020-09-12T21:23:40 < R2COM> if car is in range of $30-50k buying maybe ok, but more, not sure
2020-09-12T21:24:06 < boddax> so fast to burn have no time to get out
2020-09-12T21:24:23 < R2COM> boddax more people died in gasoline car fires than lithium
2020-09-12T21:24:25 < englishman> it says in the description they got out
2020-09-12T21:24:44 < R2COM> if you care only about safety just drive diesel cuz diesel does not burn (outside of proper pressure conditions created by engine)
2020-09-12T21:25:34 < R2COM> (another reason why  tanks which work on diesel is more preferred)
2020-09-12T21:28:52 < zyp> R2COM, idk, I'm not a tesla fanboy but I'm not a hater either
2020-09-12T21:39:29 < GenTooMan> the Telsa vehicles have there challenges. The worst problem I've seen is the programmers probably should have bigger restrictions on changes that get into production vehicles.  A common issue is early production cars ECU's dying due to flash failure, it's not a hardware issue it's the software that was added.
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2020-09-12T21:45:15 < zyp> my impression is that tesla's software process is both a blessing and a curse
2020-09-12T21:45:36 < zyp> on one hand you've got some reliability issues, but on the other hand you actually get updates
2020-09-12T22:03:21 < Cracki> it's a high tech product. few people are gonna repair it like they repair their washing machines. it pays to sell it with service, rather than without service.
2020-09-12T22:04:25 < Cracki> you guys must have seen that a new tesla update detects a specific modification that unlocks the ludicrous speed for "a fraction" (75%) of the cost of the official unlock
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2020-09-12T22:11:51 < catphish> englishman: actually yes, golf r does have its own AWD drivetrain, so not really he same car
2020-09-12T22:12:08 < catphish> i think i'm gonna get a new car without towing capacity soon anyway
2020-09-12T22:12:15 < catphish> haven't decided which one
2020-09-12T22:32:50 -!- boddax [~boddax@host-79-55-200-224.retail.telecomitalia.it] has quit [Quit: KVIrc 5.0.0 Aria http://www.kvirc.net/]
2020-09-12T22:40:07 < zyp> but «without towing capacity» is an important feature?
2020-09-12T22:42:18 < catphish> zyp: it is not, but unfortuanetly, it's probably inevitable
2020-09-12T22:43:04 < catphish> golf R / audi (R)S3 are high on the list, no towing :(
2020-09-12T22:47:23 < zyp> I'm tempted to just buy a golf 7 towing hitch and put it on my car, bet the mounting points are all there already
2020-09-12T22:48:11 < zyp> problem is just that I can't legally tow anything with it, since the car registration lists 0 as towing capacity
2020-09-12T22:52:40 < zyp> still tempted to, just figure it'd stick out since it's common knowledge that an egolf can't tow
2020-09-12T23:09:03 < Steffanx> common knowledge.. only in norway where 99% drives an EV? ;)
2020-09-12T23:09:13 < zyp> obviously
2020-09-12T23:10:00 < zyp> I mean, if I saw an egolf with a trailer I'd be pretty damn curious
2020-09-12T23:10:45 < mawk> why would you want to tow anything anyway
2020-09-12T23:10:55 < zyp> to move it?
2020-09-12T23:11:29 < PaulFertser> Hey mawk, tried l1 eeprom yet?
2020-09-12T23:11:54 < PaulFertser> zyp: do you have a trailer or would you rent one occassionally, and why?
2020-09-12T23:12:03 < mawk> not yet PaulFertser , I was about to right now as a matter of fact
2020-09-12T23:13:15 < zyp> PaulFertser, I'm tempted to buy one, but it's kinda pointless when I don't have a car that can tow it
2020-09-12T23:13:36 < Steffanx> dont you want one just to get weird looks?
2020-09-12T23:13:44 < zyp> PaulFertser, and then every construction materials store around lets you borrow a trailer to bring stuff home for free
2020-09-12T23:13:46 -!- leorat [~leorat@unaffiliated/leorat] has joined ##stm32
2020-09-12T23:14:03 < zyp> and then there's stuff like the diesel compressor I'm renting in a couple of days
2020-09-12T23:15:29 < zyp> I actually rented a trailer last year to pick up sand (for mixing concrete)
2020-09-12T23:15:42 < PaulFertser> zyp: so quite useful, I see
2020-09-12T23:15:56 < zyp> I asked the owner if he could bring it and pick it up after, and fill it with sand on the way here :)
2020-09-12T23:16:05 < zyp> so yeah
2020-09-12T23:16:55 < zyp> once I finish breaking up the mountain I need to get rid of all the rock
2020-09-12T23:17:29 < zyp> apparently recycling station accepts rocks and dirt for free, so I just need to drive it over there
2020-09-12T23:19:09  * catphish eyes up caymans
2020-09-12T23:19:17 < catphish> caymen?
2020-09-12T23:22:13 < Steffanx> I accept rocks for free too zyp
2020-09-12T23:22:47 < zyp> thought I already told you you can just come pick them up
2020-09-12T23:23:01 < Steffanx> "so I just need to drive it over there" ;)
2020-09-12T23:24:28 < zyp> well, yeah, it's easier for me to drive it to Østerhus than to drive it to Groningen
2020-09-12T23:24:41 < zyp> but you can have them if you make it even easier for me
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2020-09-12T23:25:18 < zyp> https://bin.jvnv.net/file/vr0dr.jpg <- here's some you can start out with, and there will be a ton more in a week
2020-09-12T23:25:24 < zyp> probably a literal ton :p
2020-09-12T23:26:49 < Cracki> those might make a nice decorative wall somewhere
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2020-09-12T23:28:01 < Steffanx> yeah
2020-09-12T23:29:40 < Cracki> dump them by the road, stick a "free" sign on the pile
2020-09-12T23:30:10 < zyp> yeah, I might even put up an online advert, they are common
2020-09-12T23:30:36 < R2COM> just start putting it in trash by small amounts
2020-09-12T23:30:38 < R2COM> :P
2020-09-12T23:30:49 < zyp> haha
2020-09-12T23:30:59 < R2COM> ill soon update and remove old small stones and replace with  new red-style stones on my front and backyard
2020-09-12T23:31:25 < R2COM> its a bitch to maintain if you have huge trees and autumn is coming...
2020-09-12T23:31:28 < Cracki> heh. I collect paper like that. nice dense piles of A4 sheets and folded cardboard packaging, in a grocery store paper bag. once every half year, that "log" drops in the paper bin.
2020-09-12T23:31:31 < R2COM> fucking leaves get all over them
2020-09-12T23:32:28 < R2COM> im not sure if its allowed to put stones in trash...
2020-09-12T23:32:41 < R2COM> although its just stone, not some dangerous chemical...so nothing should be wrong
2020-09-12T23:32:58 < Cracki> I think it's unlikely. they can't be burned like regular trash, and they aren't recyclable.
2020-09-12T23:33:08 < R2COM> why recycle?
2020-09-12T23:33:14 < zyp> over here it would be incorrectly sorted since they don't fit any categories that are picked up
2020-09-12T23:33:22 < R2COM> i have two types of trash containers near my house, one for trash, another for recycle shit
2020-09-12T23:33:27 < zyp> but I can deliver them at the recycling station
2020-09-12T23:33:33 < Cracki> in germany you get "other trash" which is burned or dumped on landfills, and recyclable stuff (paper, plastic, metals)
2020-09-12T23:33:51 < R2COM> i dont think trash is burned?
2020-09-12T23:33:55 < Cracki> yes it is
2020-09-12T23:33:57 < zyp> sure it is
2020-09-12T23:33:59 < R2COM> its deposited into some...what is this shit called
2020-09-12T23:34:02 < Cracki> landfills
2020-09-12T23:34:04 < R2COM> yes
2020-09-12T23:34:06 < Cracki> and no, that is burned
2020-09-12T23:34:16 < R2COM> its burned at landfill?
2020-09-12T23:34:20 < zyp> landfills are obsolete
2020-09-12T23:34:29 < Cracki> it's better to burn that stuff because you get heat from that, which means energy
2020-09-12T23:34:33 < zyp> why put it in the ground when you can burn it and get energy out of it
2020-09-12T23:34:39 < R2COM> im telling you in my area i think they just throw shit in landfills
2020-09-12T23:34:49 < zyp> yeah, but you're in america
2020-09-12T23:35:06 < Cracki> the waste goes directly to plants that burn it. they keep "buffers" of however many cubic meters of trash, but that's not a landfill
2020-09-12T23:35:13 < Steffanx> here its both.
2020-09-12T23:35:31 < R2COM> in order to get energy from what you burning that material (trash) needs to have good potential energyu....trash is NOT a fuel...i doubt it can give much energy
2020-09-12T23:35:33 < zyp> I have five containers outside my house; bio waste, paper, plastic, general waste, glass/metal
2020-09-12T23:35:36 < R2COM> but you have to spend energy to burn it
2020-09-12T23:35:39 < zyp> general waste is burned and the rest is recycled
2020-09-12T23:35:40 < R2COM> why bother?
2020-09-12T23:35:42 < Cracki> not sure what they do with the ashes and slag and whatnot. that must contain heavy metals etc
2020-09-12T23:35:58 < Cracki> trash is good fuel though
2020-09-12T23:36:02 < R2COM> how?
2020-09-12T23:36:12 < R2COM> its not ignitable easily
2020-09-12T23:36:19 < Cracki> well what is going into trash?
2020-09-12T23:36:19 < R2COM> you literally have to spend FUEL to burn that shit
2020-09-12T23:36:33 < R2COM> organic+chemical shit
2020-09-12T23:36:36 < zyp> R2COM, obviously not, otherwise they wouldn't burn it
2020-09-12T23:36:49 < Cracki> if you're muricans, I'll bet you don't recycle that much, so general trash contains paper, plastic, ... and that burns well
2020-09-12T23:36:58 < Cracki> bio waste, when dry, usually burns well
2020-09-12T23:36:59 < R2COM> are there some recorded amounts of kW received from waste processing facilities? :)
2020-09-12T23:37:05 < R2COM> any reports etc
2020-09-12T23:37:06 < zyp> Cracki, it does here too
2020-09-12T23:37:25 < R2COM> how much % of your city electricity ran from burned trash
2020-09-12T23:37:28 < Cracki> well they tell us to not put used kitchen roll (tissues) in paper trash because it's contaminated
2020-09-12T23:37:39 < zyp> R2COM, none
2020-09-12T23:37:43 < R2COM> exactly
2020-09-12T23:37:47 < R2COM> so where is energy going?
2020-09-12T23:37:48 < Cracki> that percentage is irrelevant but likely low
2020-09-12T23:37:54 < zyp> R2COM, remote heat
2020-09-12T23:38:05 < R2COM> what is purpose?
2020-09-12T23:38:07 < R2COM> of remote heat
2020-09-12T23:38:08 < zyp> they don't burn it to make electricity, they burn it to make heat
2020-09-12T23:38:12 < Cracki> to heat houses
2020-09-12T23:38:22 < R2COM> wait wat
2020-09-12T23:38:26 < Cracki> instead of a gas pipe, you get a heat pipe
2020-09-12T23:38:32 < zyp> yes
2020-09-12T23:38:35 < Cracki> makes sense in densely populated areas
2020-09-12T23:38:36 < R2COM> im not sure if im trolled or no
2020-09-12T23:38:38 < Cracki> murica is too sprawly
2020-09-12T23:39:11 < Cracki> my university's compute center conducts its waste heat to nearby buildings. they have about a megawatt of waste heat
2020-09-12T23:39:16 < R2COM> oh i see
2020-09-12T23:39:26 < Cracki> and that's heat from wasting electricity
2020-09-12T23:39:29 < R2COM> but most links i see are some "researchgate" shit
2020-09-12T23:39:33 < R2COM> not sure how practical it is
2020-09-12T23:39:52 < Cracki> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/District_heating
2020-09-12T23:40:40 < zyp> nice article
2020-09-12T23:40:48 < zyp> «In Norway district heating only constitutes approximately 2% of energy needs for heating. This is a very low number compared to similar countries. One of the main reasons district heating has a low penetration in Norway is access to cheap hydro-based electricity, and 80% of private electricity consumption goes to heat rooms and water. However, there is district heating in the major cities.»
2020-09-12T23:40:50 < Cracki> if you had one of those new nuclear reactors that directly produce heat in the 500-1000C range, that's directly usable by some industries (melting shit)
2020-09-12T23:40:55 < zyp> that sounds reasonable
2020-09-12T23:41:24 < zyp> I know there is a trash burning plant like 50km away from here
2020-09-12T23:42:34 < Cracki> converting heat to electricity and back to heat is worse than the losses from channeling heat through pipes. and if you have to get rid of shit by incineration anyway... incinerate trash instead of oil
2020-09-12T23:43:12 < Cracki> i'd rather we have star trek replicators where you can just "recycle" stuff
2020-09-12T23:43:16 < R2COM> why not just dig huge well to the center of the earth and throw trash there, its gonna be burned by a hot core
2020-09-12T23:43:33 < zyp> Cracki, matter decompilers :)
2020-09-12T23:44:18 < R2COM> or you can push elon musk to work harder until rocket launches are so cheap that you can catapult trash into sun
2020-09-12T23:44:20 < R2COM> problem solved
2020-09-12T23:44:25 < Cracki> or just bury it near where a tectonic plate is moving under another, and wait geological time
2020-09-12T23:44:31 < Cracki> hah no
2020-09-12T23:45:12 < Cracki> there's really no reason to move trash offworld. just bury it.
2020-09-12T23:45:29 < R2COM> but the greenpeace faggots will cry
2020-09-12T23:45:38 < Cracki> that makes me hard
2020-09-12T23:45:58 < R2COM> greta thunberg will cut your balls off
2020-09-12T23:46:32 < R2COM> that imbecile ugly teen girl complaining about climate and industry etc
2020-09-12T23:47:07 < R2COM> what would solve trash problem or improve it is..even smarter sorting maybe?
2020-09-12T23:47:12 < Cracki> we as a society need to stop listening to children
2020-09-12T23:47:34 < Cracki> raise voting age to 25-30 and require a few other things
2020-09-12T23:47:38 < R2COM> say new truck loaded with trash arrives at a waste facility, what happens is...some 1000 of robots get on it and do super fast detailed sorting
2020-09-12T23:47:44 < R2COM> say... remove all metals --> goes to metals
2020-09-12T23:47:50 < R2COM> remove all plastic--> plastic melting
2020-09-12T23:47:51 < R2COM> etc
2020-09-12T23:47:52 < Cracki> oh industrial sorting is a thing, and it's very efficient
2020-09-12T23:48:02 < Cracki> it's more thorough than humans even
2020-09-12T23:48:05 < R2COM> because i think its stupid just to "burn all"
2020-09-12T23:48:22 < Cracki> they actually take multiple streams and dump them all together because humans suck so much at sorting
2020-09-12T23:48:39 < R2COM> is industrial sorting well developed?
2020-09-12T23:48:42 < Cracki> all the bio stuff goes to composting (which also is exothermic)
2020-09-12T23:48:44 < R2COM> then why to burn so much
2020-09-12T23:48:47 < Cracki> very welld eveloped
2020-09-12T23:49:11 < R2COM> not all the bio stuff is safe for reuse, trash will have lots of medical and drugs which cant be reused
2020-09-12T23:49:12 < Cracki> it's a combination of "politics doesn't want it" and "some stuff isn't recyclable"
2020-09-12T23:49:14 < R2COM> and must be maybe burned
2020-09-12T23:49:25 < R2COM> you cant recyucle medical waste
2020-09-12T23:49:34 < Cracki> depends
2020-09-12T23:49:37 < Cracki> you can recycle amputated legs
2020-09-12T23:49:42 < Cracki> compost pile
2020-09-12T23:50:17 < R2COM> by the time it reaches the area it might have been mixed with other stuff
2020-09-12T23:50:26 < Cracki> syringes are plastic, needles are metal+plastic, all the liquids they deal with medically are either alcohols, or bodily fluids, or whatever
2020-09-12T23:50:43 < R2COM> no lol
2020-09-12T23:50:53 < R2COM> theres tons of very toxic shit in medical world
2020-09-12T23:51:25 < Cracki> that's why it's burned. that destroys a bunch of those compounds.
2020-09-12T23:51:37 < Cracki> the rest is heavy metals
2020-09-12T23:51:52 < R2COM> i wonder if landfils at my area have those smart sorting tech
2020-09-12T23:52:20 < Cracki> german article is longer, we develop that tech https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Materials_recovery_facility
2020-09-12T23:53:10 < R2COM> you developed a lot of tech as a master race
2020-09-12T23:53:18 < Cracki> Reichsflugscheiben
2020-09-12T23:53:23 < Cracki> just add iphone
2020-09-12T23:53:33 < R2COM> does that machine have undocumented step for processing jews?
2020-09-12T23:53:45 < Cracki> >_> I can't answer that
2020-09-12T23:55:05 < Cracki> ask the brits, in 2001 they had to dispose of a lot of diseased livestock
2020-09-12T23:55:16 < R2COM> why
2020-09-12T23:55:26 < Cracki> foot and mouth disease
2020-09-12T23:55:36 < R2COM> what disease and why
2020-09-12T23:55:39 < Cracki> it's not typhus but eh
2020-09-12T23:55:45 < R2COM> ah
2020-09-12T23:55:45 < Cracki> it's literally called that
2020-09-12T23:55:49 < Cracki> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Foot-and-mouth_disease
2020-09-12T23:56:16 < R2COM> ew
2020-09-12T23:56:19 < R2COM> for animals
2020-09-12T23:56:37 < Cracki> look up "livestock incinerator"
2020-09-12T23:56:48 < Cracki> they are speced in terms of tons per hour
2020-09-12T23:57:06 < Cracki> you can dump whole cows and horses in there
2020-09-12T23:57:27 < Cracki> I think they're a combination of shredder and incinerator
2020-09-12T23:58:04 < R2COM> anyway hopefully that tech for trash sorting will get better
2020-09-12T23:58:13 < R2COM> there are lots of landfills in my area btw
2020-09-12T23:58:19 < R2COM> in that state
2020-09-12T23:58:26 < Cracki> it's cheaper to dump it than to sort it
2020-09-12T23:58:39 < Cracki> the rossmann has been ranting about waste disposal in nyc being run by the mob
2020-09-12T23:59:02 < R2COM> nyc is a waste facility itself
2020-09-12T23:59:12 < Cracki> they just make it go away, no questions asked. that includes "e-waste" such as batteries, which SHOULD be recycled/decomposed because they contain valuable (and toxic) chemicals
2020-09-12T23:59:17 < Cracki> no argument there
2020-09-12T23:59:30 < R2COM> batteries can be reused?
2020-09-12T23:59:41 < Cracki> no but decomposed
2020-09-12T23:59:51 < R2COM> something inside reused?
--- Day changed Sun Sep 13 2020
2020-09-13T00:00:03 < Cracki> they consist of lithium and a few other metals, and I think some plastic
2020-09-13T00:00:19 < R2COM> lithium is expensive
2020-09-13T00:00:54 < R2COM> i heard afghanistan has lots of lithium
2020-09-13T00:01:10 < R2COM> so if we invaded that country might as well taken it over and mine lithium
2020-09-13T00:01:18 < R2COM> not sure why the fuck we didnt do it
2020-09-13T00:01:40 < Cracki> next time you invade a country, please depopulate it too, instead of displacing the natives
2020-09-13T00:02:25 < Cracki> 2019 nobel prize in chemistry: https://phys.org/news/2019-12-lithium-recycled.html
2020-09-13T00:02:52 < zyp> speaking of batteries, if I want to make a battery backup thing hooked up to a 12V rail that both charges from the rail and supplies the rail when other supplies are out, what would be the most suitable battery voltage?
2020-09-13T00:03:20 < zyp> I have the impression that buck regulators are more efficient than boost regulators, but is that the case?
2020-09-13T00:03:30 < Cracki> car battery? some 4-cell thing which is 14.4V?
2020-09-13T00:03:41 < specing> zyp: if it has to be 12.0V then it doesen't matter, since you'll be using DC-DC anyway
2020-09-13T00:04:20 < zyp> specing, read the rest of the question, I'm asking which DC-DC topology are the most efficient
2020-09-13T00:04:25 < Cracki> you could switch to serial + buck for supplying and parallel + buck for charging
2020-09-13T00:04:38 < specing> zyp: most efficient is no DC-DC, 3 li-ion cells in series charged to 4V each
2020-09-13T00:04:59 < zyp> yeah but no
2020-09-13T00:05:18 < specing> ?
2020-09-13T00:05:41 < zyp> I mean, you make a fair point, but let's say I want a regulated 12V rail
2020-09-13T00:05:46 < Cracki> maybe nobody has answered that yet and you have to chase down topologies for each and compare
2020-09-13T00:06:11 < Cracki> there are combined buck-boost, those might be worse than either
2020-09-13T00:06:51 < R2COM> buck is more efficient
2020-09-13T00:06:53 < zyp> a boost converter is a buck converter in reverse
2020-09-13T00:07:13 < Cracki> >TPS6102x 96% Efficient Synchronous Boost Converter ...
2020-09-13T00:07:13 < zyp> difference is just whether the switches are before or after the inductor
2020-09-13T00:07:25 < zyp> and a buck-boost has switches on both sides of the inductor
2020-09-13T00:07:26 < Cracki> I think bucks can do 96% too
2020-09-13T00:07:27 < R2COM> Cracki dont read first line of datasheet....
2020-09-13T00:07:34 < R2COM> it depends on the use and condition
2020-09-13T00:07:38 < Cracki> obv
2020-09-13T00:08:23 < R2COM> but its not huge difference
2020-09-13T00:08:41 < zyp> I figure efficiency matters more when running on battery than for charging the battery, so if buck is more efficent, it seems to make sense to make the battery voltage a bit higher so you run boost for charging and buck when running on battery
2020-09-13T00:08:54 < R2COM> pretty sure there would be more factors deciding architecture than "what is more efficient"
2020-09-13T00:09:04 < R2COM> both are efficient, but buck generally a little more efficient
2020-09-13T00:09:22 < zyp> that aligns with my understanding
2020-09-13T00:09:37 < R2COM> i think it has to do with the fact how current flows during phases of charge discharge or someshit
2020-09-13T00:09:45 < R2COM> lazy to look it up
2020-09-13T00:10:34 < R2COM> i have tons of things to do too soon... thinking of complete solar solution for outside lighing
2020-09-13T00:10:41 < R2COM> lights
2020-09-13T00:10:59 < R2COM> and changing from scratch all irrigation system around house for plants
2020-09-13T00:11:15 < R2COM> i figured if i use PVC pipes it will last forever
2020-09-13T00:11:20 < Cracki> can there be a theoretical maximum efficiency, no matter the buck/boost topology? (something less than 1 obviously)
2020-09-13T00:11:26 < R2COM> most of people here idiotically using some rubber hoses...
2020-09-13T00:11:28 < R2COM> fuycking stupid
2020-09-13T00:11:32 < R2COM> in a hot area...
2020-09-13T00:11:58 < R2COM> Cracki theoretical maximum efficiency for anything is 100% :)
2020-09-13T00:12:33 < Cracki> I think I have too much of a background in theoretical computer science/logic
2020-09-13T00:12:52 < R2COM> humans are stuck with shit energy sources
2020-09-13T00:13:03 < zyp> R2COM, I'd think UV degradation would matter more than temperature
2020-09-13T00:13:04 < R2COM> and no progress in physics made so far which would push shut further
2020-09-13T00:13:18 < R2COM> zyp most of that stuff is under ground anyway
2020-09-13T00:13:21 < R2COM> it still fails
2020-09-13T00:13:27 < Cracki> for some classes of problems/algorithms, you can prove certain bounds no matter what algorithm, because if you violated the bound, you'd magically have solved unsolvable problems
2020-09-13T00:13:29 < zyp> ah
2020-09-13T00:13:48 < R2COM> for example multiple times i one day was coming out and seeing water coming out from my bring paved areas.... under which hoses for irrigiation ran
2020-09-13T00:13:59 < R2COM> it was well protected against  UV
2020-09-13T00:14:11 < R2COM> yet it went dry...developed somehow cracks and leaks water
2020-09-13T00:14:25 < zyp> glad I don't have any plants and shit that needs irrigation :p
2020-09-13T00:14:31 < R2COM> but PVC pipes are monsters they can take anything and degrade super slow
2020-09-13T00:14:42 < R2COM> i have lots of plants
2020-09-13T00:14:48 < R2COM> and recently planted +13 new cypress trees
2020-09-13T00:15:10 < R2COM> will plant +11 more soon
2020-09-13T00:15:38 < R2COM> i literally make Earth better...there you go...i make YOUR air quality better
2020-09-13T00:15:39 < R2COM> :)
2020-09-13T00:17:01 < zyp> cool
2020-09-13T00:17:03 < Cracki> so do birds by ingesting seeds, pooping them out, and new plants grow
2020-09-13T00:17:37 < Cracki> I wonder what tesla does with the debris they collect in their "air raid shelter" grade air filters
2020-09-13T00:18:36 < zyp> I assume each service center lets the recycling company for their local area deal with it
2020-09-13T00:19:41 < R2COM> https://www.tesla.com/blog/putting-tesla-hepa-filter-and-bioweapon-defense-mode-to-the-test
2020-09-13T00:19:47 < zyp> it's garbage, better to let it be handled locally than to transport it somewhere to be handled in a central manner
2020-09-13T00:20:17 < R2COM> ^
2020-09-13T00:20:23 < R2COM> you talking about that HEPA thing inside tesla?
2020-09-13T00:20:36 < zyp> I'm talking about used filters
2020-09-13T00:20:50 < R2COM> interior filter?
2020-09-13T00:20:59 < zyp> yes
2020-09-13T00:21:09 < R2COM> it just a matter stuff with lots of dust
2020-09-13T00:21:16 < R2COM> nothing special about it right
2020-09-13T00:21:18 < zyp> exactly
2020-09-13T00:21:45 < R2COM> " We then closed the falcon doors and activated Bioweapon Defense Mode." lol
2020-09-13T00:21:54 < R2COM> is there such button in tesla or what?
2020-09-13T00:22:08 < zyp> it's all touchscreen, isn't it?
2020-09-13T00:23:44 < R2COM> nah..that shit deserves own button
2020-09-13T00:23:52 < R2COM> for such epic function
2020-09-13T00:24:58 < R2COM> im not sure what special about it
2020-09-13T00:25:05 < R2COM> its just fucking hepa filter no
2020-09-13T00:25:17 < GenTooMan> tesla "don't hit the red button!" "what does it do though?!" "Just don't hit it." <SMACK> "All right we have indication you voided your warranty and we accept no responsibility for the car."
2020-09-13T00:25:17 < R2COM> or are they making point that in many other cars its not hepa grade?
2020-09-13T00:26:03 < zyp> it's probably mainly that
2020-09-13T00:26:40 < R2COM> i mean its a car...if shit outside is so bad you need HEPA then things are fucked anyway
2020-09-13T00:26:48 < GenTooMan> hepa filters grab a certain size particle. They use HEPA on nuclear decontamination systems medical isolation wards etc.
2020-09-13T00:27:03 < Cracki> "bioweapon defense mode" means their filter is high grade, certain particle size
2020-09-13T00:27:19 < zyp> R2COM, lots of cities are that fucked
2020-09-13T00:27:25 < Cracki> drive your tesla through commiefornia, you'll be glad for the filters
2020-09-13T00:27:35 < R2COM> ok so i dont have tesla i just have crv
2020-09-13T00:27:37 < R2COM> https://www.amazon.com/Bosch-6037C-HEPA-Cabin-Filter/dp/B01JYSWOSY
2020-09-13T00:27:38 < R2COM> ^
2020-09-13T00:27:50 < R2COM> so... buying that i also have "bioweapon defense mode" ?
2020-09-13T00:27:51 < R2COM> lol
2020-09-13T00:28:09 < Cracki> >99.97% at 0.3 microns*
2020-09-13T00:28:09 < Cracki> nice
2020-09-13T00:28:16 < Cracki> I think you do
2020-09-13T00:29:10 < Cracki> here they have 2.5 micron particles https://www.tesla.com/blog/putting-tesla-hepa-filter-and-bioweapon-defense-mode-to-the-test
2020-09-13T00:30:06 < Cracki> this says HEPA = 99.97% of 0.3 micron particles https://www.currentautomotive.com/how-does-teslas-bioweapon-defense-mode-work/
2020-09-13T00:47:52 < R2COM> any idea how o make :term mode of vim to do console autocomplete
2020-09-13T00:48:18 < R2COM> if i use vim, and instead of opening another terminal decided to do :term inside vim it works since vim8, however; i cant autocomplete there
2020-09-13T00:48:35 < R2COM> say you type "arm..." hit shift wanna see arm-none-eabi-
2020-09-13T00:48:46 < R2COM> it happens in terminal when terminal launches separately in win10
2020-09-13T00:48:51 < R2COM> but not from terminal inside vim
2020-09-13T00:53:47 < zyp> hmm, my vim doesn't even support :term
2020-09-13T00:54:13 < R2COM> version 8+ does
2020-09-13T00:54:48 < zyp> well, the two places I tested got 8.0.707 and 8.0.1283
2020-09-13T00:55:14 < R2COM> 8.2 i think
2020-09-13T00:55:38 < zyp> that explains it then :)
2020-09-13T00:56:46 < zyp> where do you have the toolchain installed? are you adding it to $PATH in a profile file somewhere?
2020-09-13T00:56:56 < zyp> if so I guess the shell started by :term is not sourcing it
2020-09-13T00:57:01 < R2COM> hmm
2020-09-13T00:57:12 < R2COM> i wonder how to make it source when you do :term
2020-09-13T01:02:36 < englishman> catphish: golf r and Audi A3 are the same car
2020-09-13T01:10:12 < R2COM> hmmm i also wonder if one can run windows powershell there :P
2020-09-13T01:17:30 < R2COM> oh
2020-09-13T01:17:36 < R2COM> :terminal powershell
2020-09-13T01:17:45 < R2COM> the only thing is, some aliases i created for powershell not working there
2020-09-13T01:17:52 < R2COM> i need to create them again after above action
2020-09-13T01:17:53 < R2COM> not sure why
2020-09-13T01:18:08 < zyp> probably same issue
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2020-09-13T01:34:53 < R2COM> i can i think solve it by defining standard alias for powershell in a file, requires chjange of some security policy which is ok but not gonna do it
2020-09-13T01:35:05 < R2COM> since its only 1 alias i can deal with it
2020-09-13T01:35:17 < R2COM> so if i do :terminal powershell
2020-09-13T01:35:19 < R2COM> and then just:
2020-09-13T01:35:42 < R2COM> Set-Alias -Name agdb -Value arm-none-eabi-gdb
2020-09-13T01:35:48 < R2COM> just once and then i can work
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2020-09-13T01:49:26 < catphish> englishman: not really
2020-09-13T01:51:11 < catphish> englishman: golf r is more comparable to an audi S3, at least in terms of power and AWD
2020-09-13T01:51:47 < catphish> of course all these cars are built with the same VAG chassis / basic components
2020-09-13T01:53:15 < catphish> but no "A3" is in the same class as a golf R
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2020-09-13T01:55:22 < rajkosto> https://www.aliexpress.com/item/32714547723.html?spm=a2g0s.9042311.0.0.27424c4dzUdTpu someone know what model these are ?
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2020-09-13T01:57:54 < englishman> well they sure got me fooled they all look the same to me except maybe the Audi depreciates faster
2020-09-13T02:05:58 < R2COM> interesting so this "enum class" in c++ is good and might be hassle too depending on usage
2020-09-13T02:06:04 < R2COM> its like, "protected, strongly typed enum"
2020-09-13T02:06:16 < R2COM> but at same time presents inconveniences
2020-09-13T02:06:39 < R2COM> say you wanna directly do some math operations on it, but compiler will yell that operator- is not defined
2020-09-13T02:06:46 < R2COM> with enum you can easily add subtract etc
2020-09-13T02:06:50 < R2COM> but not with enum class
2020-09-13T02:06:54 < R2COM> unless you static_cast
2020-09-13T02:07:16 < R2COM> on another side.... not sure why straoustrup actually suggested to use enum class instead of traditional enum
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2020-09-13T02:18:30 < catphish> englishman: the golf and the audi (A|S|RS)3 are indeed the same car, and essentially the same on the outside, but there are so many (vastly different) varieties for people who care about performance, ie Golf/Golf GTI/Golf R, and Audi A3, S3, RS3, so to me, some of those are the same, but othrs are vastly different
2020-09-13T02:20:40 < rajkosto> R2COM, enum class is namespaced
2020-09-13T02:20:53 < rajkosto> normal enums just dump all the names into the parent namespace
2020-09-13T02:21:07 < rajkosto> and it doesnt automatically cast to int so you cant do +, |, whatever
2020-09-13T02:21:16 < rajkosto> so its kinda lame, theres other abstractions on top of it so you can do bitfields easily
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2020-09-13T02:49:36 < steve_> Hello, any idea what is the difference here?  Why is there a HardFault?  Target is a stm32  http://codepad.org/xa3vqXPh
2020-09-13T02:55:31 < R2COM> what is "float32_t" ?
2020-09-13T02:56:27 < R2COM> f at end i think assumes float
2020-09-13T02:57:04 < R2COM> also thats not...hardfault? i see error messages
2020-09-13T03:01:37 < steve_> well it's just a snippet so it won't compile.  float32_t is ARM DSP library parlance, which I would guess is typedef to float  on STM32F4
2020-09-13T03:03:47 < steve_> When the HardFault happens, it happens during the evaluation of that #define'd expression.  What are the possibilities?   Memory alignment from the array access?  
2020-09-13T03:06:06 < Cracki> no guessing, find out how "float32_t" is defined
2020-09-13T03:06:20 < R2COM> and try instoead of .0 dop .0f
2020-09-13T03:06:34 < Cracki> also the #define itself doesn't interest the compiler. its uses do.
2020-09-13T03:06:53 < Cracki> float literals with no suffix are doubles
2020-09-13T03:07:04 < Cracki> it would just figure this to be a double overall
2020-09-13T03:07:05 < R2COM> exactly so different alignment then
2020-09-13T03:07:13 < Cracki> because the cast applies to the numerator
2020-09-13T03:07:27 < R2COM> thats why i said try .0f
2020-09-13T03:07:30 < Cracki> ye
2020-09-13T03:07:32 < R2COM> in second one which fails
2020-09-13T03:08:13 < Cracki> what's this running on
2020-09-13T03:08:46 < Cracki> the fp64 expression might kill it. it doesn't know how to handle that in hw or sw
2020-09-13T03:09:09 < Cracki> it should be able to handle doubles in software. maybe you configured it to forget how to
2020-09-13T03:09:55 < Cracki> could you show the expression where that #define is used
2020-09-13T03:10:38 < R2COM> if its supposed to be done by fpu unit some fpu shit needs to be enabled as well in startup
2020-09-13T03:12:11 < steve_> int16_t mix1  = left_buffer[i] + (USER_INPUT_DELAY_FEEDBACK_1 * delay_buffer_1[delay_index_1]);   //both buffers here are defined like int16 buf[MAX_SIZE]
2020-09-13T03:13:04 < R2COM> its time to some pizza & wine i guess
2020-09-13T03:13:09 < R2COM> 5pm alreadyt
2020-09-13T03:13:51 < steve_> There were times earlier today I had floating literals without the 'f', and it didn't hardfault.  So there must be at least a software processing of doubles
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2020-09-13T03:15:37 < R2COM> why dont you try second one which fails with .0f instead of just .0 ?
2020-09-13T03:16:08 < steve_> How could this be an alignment thing?  Doubles are 8 bytes, Floats are 4.  Maybe it's from the int16_t array alignment
2020-09-13T03:16:32 < steve_> R2COM ok worth a shot
2020-09-13T03:17:06 < Cracki> can you read some registers to see why it hardfaulted
2020-09-13T03:17:47 < Cracki> https://www.segger.com/downloads/application-notes/AN00016
2020-09-13T03:18:20 < steve_> R2COM it does not HardFault when I add the 'f' to the literal
2020-09-13T03:18:50 < steve_> so now.... wtf is float32_t then
2020-09-13T03:19:24 < Cracki> cmsis-dsp says typedef float float32_t 
2020-09-13T03:19:29 < Cracki> so that's probably not to blame
2020-09-13T03:19:42 < Cracki> unless it's defined to be something else for you
2020-09-13T03:19:56 < Cracki> one of your errors said you redefined the macro
2020-09-13T03:20:06 < Cracki> maybe find out where this is done, and what it's redefined to
2020-09-13T03:20:41 < steve_> that's just a stupid codepad.org error, it doens't know anything past my snippet
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2020-09-13T03:20:53 < Cracki> ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
2020-09-13T03:20:53 < R2COM> well its obvious right, you didnt put f at the end and it took it as double whereas shit had to be float
2020-09-13T03:21:24 < steve_> it's obvious what works or doesnt, I already know that, but I don't know why
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2020-09-13T03:22:12 < steve_> Cracki, looking at that AN, I see the relevant info would be in Halt Fault Status Register, page 11, but that apparently only has 3 possibilities:  vector fetch, memory access, debug event
2020-09-13T03:23:49 < Cracki> some more readings https://www.keil.com/appnotes/files/apnt209.pdf
2020-09-13T03:23:55 < steve_> so it must be an alignment thing.  In fact I don't think I've ever seen a hard fault that wasn't an alignment issue or bad pointer  But still don't know why... 16-bit could be misaligned with 32-bit float in the same way as a 64-bit double... 
2020-09-13T03:24:08 < Cracki> those choices narrow it down but there are more bits
2020-09-13T03:24:46 < Cracki> why must it be an alignment thing? try doing fp64 math in some other spot and wait for it to hardfault
2020-09-13T03:25:24 < steve_> well I'm about to read that second AN, but what else could it possibly be?  There's only a few things that cause HardFaults
2020-09-13T03:25:25 < Cracki> what you have there is fp32/fp64
2020-09-13T03:27:05 < Cracki> is it a hardfault, or a different fault (busfault, etc)
2020-09-13T03:27:35 < Cracki> hardfault sounds more like you're giving it an instruction it can't handle, or you have some corrupted stack and it's jumping to garbage
2020-09-13T03:27:41 < steve_> hmm, there is one bit in there related to floating point, "lazy floating-point state preservation"  never heard of that
2020-09-13T03:28:07 < Cracki> hardfault doesn't mean "it's crashing hard"
2020-09-13T03:28:45 < steve_> all I know is my PC get's stuck in the "HardFault_Handler" which I assume to be a hard fault.
2020-09-13T03:29:05 < Cracki> ok good
2020-09-13T03:31:17 < steve_> anyone know of an impleemntation of such Hard Fault Handler that can read all the relevant bits?  That'd save me an infinite amount of time, as I'm not going to do it
2020-09-13T03:32:38 < steve_> maybe some GDB wizardry could just pretty print the register structs
2020-09-13T03:34:44 < R2COM>  __asm__("mrs %0, msp\n" : "=r" (msp_reg) );     
2020-09-13T03:34:51 < R2COM> just read any reg like that i guess
2020-09-13T03:34:54 < R2COM> reg of interest
2020-09-13T03:35:05 < R2COM> declare xxx_reg
2020-09-13T03:37:30 < steve_> hmm that is news to me, the status registers are not memory mapped?
2020-09-13T03:40:34 < R2COM> if its mapped it has to be seen inside whatever firmware you use
2020-09-13T03:40:43 < R2COM> i dont know what libs you use
2020-09-13T03:41:01 < R2COM> to read IPSR or whatever shit one would do something like this
2020-09-13T03:41:39 < mawk> yes it works PaulFertser 
2020-09-13T03:42:24 < mawk> by the way PaulFertser if I want to use the nrst stuff to reset the target when attaching, I use -c 'reset_config connect_assert_srst' right ?
2020-09-13T03:42:28 < mawk> but it says BUG something
2020-09-13T03:42:43 < mawk> maybe they didn't connect the srst pin to the chip
2020-09-13T03:42:50 < R2COM> mawk what debug probe you using?
2020-09-13T03:42:58 < mawk> stlink
2020-09-13T03:45:33 < mawk> ah I had to add "srst_only"
2020-09-13T03:45:34 < mawk> for some reason
2020-09-13T03:45:47 < mawk> now it's good
2020-09-13T03:48:38 < steve_> I'm using "none" now
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2020-09-13T03:53:22 < R2COM> hm if i have some static inline function which declares some static variable cc = 0xb; for example, and returns it
2020-09-13T03:53:27 < R2COM> and program code took 436 bytes
2020-09-13T03:53:42 < R2COM> why doing this operation with variable cc added another 20 bytes to program and now its 456 bytes
2020-09-13T03:53:50 < R2COM> cc |= static_cast<uint32_t>(static_cast<uint32_t>(priority) << (((static_cast<uint8_t>(irq) - static_cast<uint8_t>(IRQ::WWDG)) % 4)*8)) ;
2020-09-13T03:54:25 < R2COM> priority and irq are Priority and IRQ enum objects statically casted to raw numbers, nothing much
2020-09-13T03:54:33 < R2COM> just some arithmetic
2020-09-13T03:54:43 < R2COM> but why program size had to increase by 20 bytes from it
2020-09-13T03:55:02 < R2COM> static inline uint32_t SetIrqPriority(IRQ irq, Priority priority)
2020-09-13T03:55:03 < R2COM> {
2020-09-13T03:55:16 < R2COM> static uint32_t cc = 0xb;
2020-09-13T03:55:23 < R2COM> cc |= static_cast<uint32_t>(static_cast<uint32_t>(priority) << (((static_cast<uint8_t>(irq) - static_cast<uint8_t>(IRQ::WWDG)) % 4)*8)) ;
2020-09-13T03:55:25 < R2COM> reutnr cc;
2020-09-13T03:55:44 < R2COM> } that is it... but why that cc |=... line made it larger
2020-09-13T03:57:04 < R2COM> its because cc is static and it saved more shit in memory due to those operations...
2020-09-13T04:03:41 < mawk> so PaulFertser I launch the server with openocd -f interface/stlink.cfg -f target/stm32l1.cfg -c 'reset_config srst_only connect_assert_srst; init; reset init; mww [expr 0x40023C0C] 0x89ABCDEF; mww [expr 0x40023C0C] 0x02030405'
2020-09-13T04:03:49 < mawk> and then I do load_image and stuff
2020-09-13T04:04:06 < R2COM> mawk sorry for bugging but just curious, you ever used blackmagic probe?
2020-09-13T04:04:17 < mawk> no, only ever used stlink
2020-09-13T04:04:19 < R2COM> why would you use stlink (offtopic question)
2020-09-13T04:04:38 < mawk> it's only what I have, and it works
2020-09-13T04:04:47 < mawk> and it's what colleagues use
2020-09-13T04:06:24 < mawk> why ?
2020-09-13T04:07:07 < R2COM> just curious.. i feel blackmagic probe is superior
2020-09-13T04:07:53 < mawk> maybe in some sense
2020-09-13T04:07:57 < mawk> but I didn't need superior features for now
2020-09-13T04:08:09 < R2COM> what soft you using to debug?
2020-09-13T04:08:24 < mawk> just commandline gdb
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2020-09-13T05:50:36 < dongs> ??? superior for what, it onyl works with gdb
2020-09-13T05:50:44 < dongs> R2COMmie, have you ever tried "Ozone"?
2020-09-13T05:50:50 < dongs> instead of your bullshit toy GDB debugger lol
2020-09-13T05:55:26 < R2COM> in order to run ozone one needs to purchase $600 segger jlink plus, and at the end of the day you just watch some variables/registers and settings breakpoints
2020-09-13T05:55:34 < R2COM> im not paying $600 for that nigger shit
2020-09-13T05:56:00 < R2COM> pretty sure that the average debug project on your end is same shit....dont try to tell me you using all 100% of the ozones features
2020-09-13T05:56:11 < R2COM> you look at variables and set breakpoints so thats about it
2020-09-13T05:56:35 < dongs> you can run ozone with fucking jlink-edu or any of the jlink-ob things or even a chink $1 clone
2020-09-13T05:56:41 < R2COM> no
2020-09-13T05:56:43 < dongs> yes
2020-09-13T05:56:50 < R2COM> i dont want clones or steal software
2020-09-13T05:56:51 < dongs> i have run it at customers site with only jewlink edu
2020-09-13T05:57:10 < R2COM> edu requires you being student which happily im not anymore
2020-09-13T05:57:13 < dongs> it was in some demo or wahtever the fuck mode but it works fine
2020-09-13T05:57:24 < dongs> aight
2020-09-13T05:57:28 < dongs> well enjoy gdb
2020-09-13T05:57:42 < R2COM> but nothing to complain there it just works bruh
2020-09-13T06:01:02 < R2COM> dongs https://i.imgur.com/i0wFC0V.png
2020-09-13T06:01:18 < R2COM> here is my work environment now... vim with split windows and one of splits is windows powershell where i do gdb
2020-09-13T06:01:21 < R2COM> done....
2020-09-13T06:01:24 < R2COM> fucking works
2020-09-13T06:02:09 < upgrdman> anyone know if intel spec's cache miss times for l1/l2/etc>
2020-09-13T06:02:23 < upgrdman> e.g. "L1 miss ~= x nanoseconds"
2020-09-13T06:03:12 < upgrdman> in my hot spot i found a block of code that averages 31ns to execute, and it looks super trivial, so suspect cache thrashing :/
2020-09-13T06:04:27 < R2COM> put an icepack in a system block it might decrease delay
2020-09-13T06:05:17 < upgrdman> lolwut
2020-09-13T06:05:37 < R2COM> just fucking around
2020-09-13T06:05:44 < upgrdman> inorite
2020-09-13T06:06:53 < upgrdman> i've been autisming performance improvements for my TelemetryViewer... before it was good for ~20Mbps... now I'm up to 580Mbps. Hope to get 5Gbps, and suspect that's very doable.
2020-09-13T06:07:48 < R2COM> 5gbps going from where to where
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2020-09-13T06:11:04 < upgrdman> usb-c to my software
2020-09-13T06:11:12 < upgrdman> or 10GigE to my software
2020-09-13T06:11:37 < R2COM> which usbc chip you using
2020-09-13T06:12:11 < R2COM> what you mean usbc or ethernet.. you havent done it yet or wat
2020-09-13T06:12:48 < upgrdman> ftdi ft601. rated for 3.2Gbps but I might as well have enough headroom for anything usb3.0
2020-09-13T06:13:15 < upgrdman> no, i have not done it yet. will be autisming my own 8ch oscope-ish PCB soon.
2020-09-13T06:13:32 < R2COM> use cypress FX3
2020-09-13T06:13:37 < upgrdman> why
2020-09-13T06:14:32 < R2COM> cuz it will  give you your 5gbps?
2020-09-13T06:17:32 < R2COM> ft601 can also do 5gbps it seems but its usb 3.0
2020-09-13T06:17:53 < R2COM> fx3 is usb 3.1, can do 5gbps,. but also gives you i2c,spi,uart,i2s + 200mhz arm9 core inside
2020-09-13T06:18:56 < upgrdman> 3.1 == 10gbps?
2020-09-13T06:19:20 < R2COM> price difference though...
2020-09-13T06:19:22 < dongs> what 
2020-09-13T06:19:26 < dongs> r2commie, fx3 is fuckign ancient
2020-09-13T06:19:29 < dongs> its like 3.0 gen1
2020-09-13T06:19:30 < R2COM> ft601 is $8 and cyusb3014 is $27
2020-09-13T06:19:32 < dongs> 5gbps max
2020-09-13T06:20:38 < R2COM> usb 3.1 gen 2 can do 10gbps
2020-09-13T06:20:48 < R2COM> but fx3 is usb 3.1 gen1 and its 5gbps only
2020-09-13T06:21:10 < upgrdman> ya fx3 is more $ than it seems to be worth
2020-09-13T06:21:26 < R2COM> well as i said it gives few other shit right
2020-09-13T06:21:32 < upgrdman> seems like no one offers a 10Gbps or 20Gbps usb chip?
2020-09-13T06:21:36 < R2COM> 4x master general purpose interfaces
2020-09-13T06:21:40 < R2COM> +200mhz arm9  core
2020-09-13T06:22:17 < R2COM> i mean... you can get xilinx device, purchase (or do your own?) usbc core and have it ruynning...
2020-09-13T06:22:19 < R2COM> but....
2020-09-13T06:22:33 < R2COM> i think you wont get away with anything less than kintex ultrascale+ devices
2020-09-13T06:22:35 < R2COM> which are $$$
2020-09-13T06:22:45 < R2COM> kintex7 not sure if it can do it
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2020-09-13T06:34:29 < upgrdman> hmm, fuck it probably is cache misses. a hot spot with ~13 instructions is taking ~140 instructions-worth-of-time to execute (on average.)
2020-09-13T06:34:42 < upgrdman> but it should be easy to fix.
2020-09-13T06:36:38 < R2COM> upgrdman one might be able to implement 10gbps Ethernet solution with XC7K70T
2020-09-13T06:36:45 < R2COM> havent checked exactly but i think its doable
2020-09-13T06:36:56 < R2COM> with that chip costing around $138
2020-09-13T06:37:03 < R2COM> not that bad for such powerful overall stuff
2020-09-13T06:37:08 < upgrdman> fuck it
2020-09-13T06:37:15 < upgrdman> ft601 is enough
2020-09-13T06:37:22 < R2COM> but its not 10gbps
2020-09-13T06:37:37 < upgrdman> if need be i could nig rig two or three together and still cost less
2020-09-13T06:38:02 < R2COM> not sure... depends... sounds like some afro project then
2020-09-13T06:38:06 < upgrdman> but 3Gbps is prolly enough for me
2020-09-13T06:38:21 < R2COM> what will you interface to ft601?
2020-09-13T06:38:29 < upgrdman> adc
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2020-09-13T06:38:35 < upgrdman> via fpga
2020-09-13T06:38:43 < R2COM> and....fpga will ...cost?
2020-09-13T06:38:49 < R2COM> $20?......
2020-09-13T06:38:52 < R2COM> its gonna cost right
2020-09-13T06:39:12 < upgrdman> $7
2020-09-13T06:39:20 < R2COM> why 7
2020-09-13T06:39:30 < upgrdman> because that is the price you dumb faggot
2020-09-13T06:39:32 < R2COM> lets see if one uses ft602 with 32 bit dataline
2020-09-13T06:39:52 < R2COM> what fpga is that
2020-09-13T06:39:56 < upgrdman> machxo2
2020-09-13T06:50:23 < R2COM> 640 luts
2020-09-13T06:50:58 < R2COM> >100mhz IO
2020-09-13T06:51:15 < R2COM> and 640uc has 1 pll (which i assume will be required )
2020-09-13T06:51:29 < R2COM> hopefully your shit tying to adc can fit in then 
2020-09-13T06:52:04 < R2COM> might do tops 3gbps with that
2020-09-13T06:57:13 < R2COM> interesting
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2020-09-13T07:09:11 < dongs> < upgrdman> because that is the price you dumb faggot
2020-09-13T07:09:13 < dongs> rekt
2020-09-13T07:11:04 < upgrdman> :)
2020-09-13T07:20:08 < R2COM> so usb4 will be aimed for 40gbps it seems huh
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2020-09-13T07:29:21 < upgrdman> usb3 is transmitted as, uh, "binary" right? is usb4 going to QAM or something to keep the symbol rate <40GHz?
2020-09-13T07:47:48 < englishman> fx3 can't do 5gbps
2020-09-13T07:47:56 < englishman> none of those usb chips can
2020-09-13T07:48:00 < englishman> not even usb can
2020-09-13T07:48:08 < englishman> 5ghz is the clock speed
2020-09-13T07:48:31 < englishman> how are you going to get 5gbps out of a 32 bit wide 100mhz bus exactly
2020-09-13T07:48:41 < upgrdman> im not. never expected to
2020-09-13T07:49:14 < englishman> rhetorical question posted to someone who has me on ignore.
2020-09-13T07:49:21 < upgrdman> o lol k
2020-09-13T08:06:25 < R2COM> theres no qam there
2020-09-13T08:14:26 < R2COM> ohh tired...definitely time for some wine
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2020-09-13T11:25:36 < zyp> no QAM, but considering pcie6 is moving to PAM4, it seems natural that future USB specs will go that way too
2020-09-13T11:27:55 < zyp> usb3 gen1 is 8b10b, so just removing that overhead leaves you with only 4 Gb/s
2020-09-13T11:28:26 < zyp> and then I don't know how much overhead the framing layer adds
2020-09-13T11:38:30 < dongs> DP2.0 is 128/132 like PCIe3
2020-09-13T11:39:03 < dongs> and thats 80gbit
2020-09-13T11:39:09 < dongs> isnt that same shit tb4 is using?
2020-09-13T11:40:00 < dongs> yuea USB4 is all 128/132
2020-09-13T11:40:09 < dongs> no mention of pam4, thats pcie4/amd trash
2020-09-13T11:42:02 < dongs> heh, there's FEC in usb4, using reed-solomon shit like in dtv
2020-09-13T11:50:36 < effractur> usb4 is quite awsome
2020-09-13T11:50:49 < zyp> usb3 gen2 switched to 128b/132b
2020-09-13T11:51:00 < effractur> but i guess we don't see is in embedded stuff anytime soon the controllers are quite complex
2020-09-13T11:52:29 < zyp> dongs, 80gbit as in four lanes of 20?
2020-09-13T11:56:51 < effractur> yes
2020-09-13T11:57:06 < effractur> and then a littble bit less for the real bandwith becauseof the coding overhead
2020-09-13T11:57:59 < effractur> but a lot higher tbecasue of 128/132 vs 8/10
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2020-09-13T13:31:07 < jsoft> Say if I have DMA happening to copy ADC conversions into some area of SRAM. What are the risks and such of me reading that SRAM/memory from an ISR ?
2020-09-13T13:31:17 < jsoft> From a timer ISR say
2020-09-13T13:34:55 < jsoft> Where 'reading' is reading half words
2020-09-13T13:36:13 < zyp> how is the DMA setup? circular continous?
2020-09-13T13:36:25 < jsoft> Yes
2020-09-13T13:37:09 < zyp> since the memory is 32-bits wide, both 16-bit reads and writes will be atomic, so you won't ever read a sample with one byte of old data and one byte of new data
2020-09-13T13:37:18 < jsoft> ok
2020-09-13T13:37:35 < jsoft> Well that works out fine then :)
2020-09-13T13:40:30 < zyp> on the software side you might want to mark the buffer as volatile so the compiler doesn't assume it remains a fixed value, but if you only read it from an ISR that's unlikely to be an issue
2020-09-13T13:43:26 < zyp> if you've got a plain loop that is reading a DMA buffer, the compiler may see that the buffer is not written between the loop iterations and thereby assume the value is unchanged and optimize out the read
2020-09-13T13:43:47 < jsoft> I am not using C
2020-09-13T13:43:58 < zyp> rust?
2020-09-13T13:44:01 < jsoft> forth
2020-09-13T13:44:04 < zyp> ah
2020-09-13T13:44:22 < Steffanx> Thats a first here. Hrh
2020-09-13T13:44:24 < Steffanx> Heh
2020-09-13T13:44:28 < zyp> I don't know forth, but I figure it must have something equivalent
2020-09-13T13:44:38 < jsoft> not that I am aware of
2020-09-13T13:44:47 < jsoft> It probably just does not assume thing
2020-09-13T13:44:49 < jsoft> +s
2020-09-13T13:48:02 < mawk> there's a boat passing in front of me, with a huge dutch flag and people drinking on it, and the boat is named Beer
2020-09-13T13:48:06 < zyp> perhaps not
2020-09-13T13:48:09 < mawk> was that you Steffanx 
2020-09-13T13:48:24 < jsoft> mawk, awesome :D
2020-09-13T13:48:44 < Steffanx> Nope. Very unlikely mawk.
2020-09-13T13:48:53 < Steffanx> Unlesd I have a clone I dont know about.
2020-09-13T13:49:10 < Steffanx> But would a clone of me also be me? 
2020-09-13T13:49:11 < mawk> you've been sent here by the dutch secret service to spy on me
2020-09-13T13:49:17 < mawk> so you denying it is ultimate proof
2020-09-13T13:49:40 < mawk> yes a atom by atom clone is you
2020-09-13T13:49:45 < mawk> a digital you is you as well
2020-09-13T13:49:49 < mawk> with simulated neurons
2020-09-13T13:49:56 < mawk> next philosophical hurdle please
2020-09-13T13:50:00 < Steffanx> Hah
2020-09-13T13:52:44 < Steffanx> I've no reason to spy on a Frenchy in dutchland.
2020-09-13T13:53:18 < Steffanx> All i can maybe steal is his escargot salad recipe 
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2020-09-13T14:32:12 < catphish> grr, my usleep() function that i've used in every one of my projects ever seems not to want to work today :(
2020-09-13T14:33:27 < Cracki> how does it work
2020-09-13T14:33:32 < Cracki> (usually)
2020-09-13T14:34:03 < catphish> like this https://paste.ubuntu.com/p/5bhjnyJYzM/
2020-09-13T14:35:04 < catphish> but in my new project, this code does not seem to be able to create a noticeable delay
2020-09-13T14:36:01 < catphish> https://paste.ubuntu.com/p/tDhMfXNBCt/
2020-09-13T14:37:03 < Cracki> is systick even enabled
2020-09-13T14:37:10 < catphish> perhaps not
2020-09-13T14:37:25 < catphish> but i dont recall every having to enable it
2020-09-13T14:37:26 < Cracki> while you're at it, pick clksource
2020-09-13T14:37:54 < catphish> oh, well SysTick->CTRL = 5 enables it and sets its source to sysclk
2020-09-13T14:38:03 < Cracki> I'm not awake yet. I just read systick as stickbug
2020-09-13T14:38:24 < catphish> so it's enabled in that way at least
2020-09-13T14:38:31 < Cracki> does it work now?
2020-09-13T14:38:37 < catphish> o
2020-09-13T14:38:41 < catphish> *no
2020-09-13T14:38:49 < catphish> i haven't changed it, this was always done
2020-09-13T14:39:05 < catphish> what i said i didn't enable it, i meant i've not enabled it *elsewhere*
2020-09-13T14:39:17 < catphish> not sure if it clock is gated somewhere else
2020-09-13T14:39:48 < Cracki> neighbor's dog says awoo
2020-09-13T14:39:54 < catphish> :)
2020-09-13T14:41:05 < Cracki> does that loop cycle? or is it dying in some way
2020-09-13T14:41:23 < Cracki> what's the assembly
2020-09-13T14:41:39 < Cracki> I'll just hope the definition of systick is volatile
2020-09-13T14:42:07 < catphish> i'm relying on ST's libs for that, so i hope it is
2020-09-13T14:42:48 < Cracki> so it counts down from 16 million
2020-09-13T14:43:13 < Cracki> and you have 16 million - counter, so that's counting up, ok I believe that expression
2020-09-13T14:44:31 < Cracki> val = 0 means it's immediately reloading ffffff
2020-09-13T14:44:38 < Cracki> but what if it doesn't
2020-09-13T14:44:47 < Cracki> does this delay halt forever, or return instantly
2020-09-13T14:44:48 < catphish> right, it's not obvious, but val=0 reloads ffffff
2020-09-13T14:44:52 < catphish> it returns instantly
2020-09-13T14:44:56 < Cracki> ok then
2020-09-13T14:45:02 < Cracki> vary that value
2020-09-13T14:45:54 < catphish> asm: https://paste.ubuntu.com/p/gQZmPVqH39/
2020-09-13T14:46:30 < Cracki> because if this value actually goes in the register, and the expression is evaluated BEFORE systick can do its business (which isn't impossible), the loop ends right away
2020-09-13T14:47:22 < Cracki> or since it's ticking at processor clock, maybe a nop in front of the loop
2020-09-13T14:47:32 < catphish>   SysTick->VAL = 0x00FFFFFF; has the same result
2020-09-13T14:47:47 < Cracki> ok what _is_ val (and delay) inside of the loop
2020-09-13T14:48:38 < Cracki> i'd try singlestepping this, break at entry
2020-09-13T14:48:58 < catphish> that makes a lot of sense, i'll have to set up a debugger
2020-09-13T14:49:04 < Cracki> >_>
2020-09-13T14:49:26 < Steffanx> Lol. How you usually debug mr catphish ?
2020-09-13T14:49:31 < Cracki> or throw in a bunch of assertions and see which one does HCF
2020-09-13T14:49:42 < catphish> Steffanx: i usually just write good gode the first time
2020-09-13T14:49:52 < Steffanx> Yeah my arse :P
2020-09-13T14:50:04 < Cracki> that would change the timing but the timing has been probed enough for now
2020-09-13T14:50:19 < catphish> Steffanx: but, actually my debugging is usually 1) LEDs 2) set up a proper debugger is i really need to
2020-09-13T14:52:28 < catphish> found the problem, at least in so much as it's a combination of my compiler and my stupidity
2020-09-13T14:52:46 < Cracki> enlighten
2020-09-13T14:53:18 < catphish> it works with gcc optimizations disables, which means something somewhere is not as volatile as it should be
2020-09-13T14:54:46 < catphish> SysTick->VAL absolutely is volatile, so i'm not quite qure what's being optimized out here
2020-09-13T14:55:39 < catphish> the answer may well be the usleep function itself
2020-09-13T14:56:09 < catphish> i really don't understand what happening, but changing the function definition to volatile void usleep(unsigned int delay) fixes it too
2020-09-13T14:56:16 < catphish> i've never done this before
2020-09-13T14:57:00 < catphish> grr, ignore everything i just said, changing that definition does not fix it
2020-09-13T14:57:05 < catphish> but disabling optimizations does
2020-09-13T14:57:17 < catphish> guess i'll have to dig into the ASM and see why
2020-09-13T14:58:55 < Cracki> the asm you posted is puzzling in parts
2020-09-13T14:59:56 < catphish> here's both: https://paste.ubuntu.com/p/CV9QJpdW7d/
2020-09-13T15:00:23 < Cracki> you can step through assembly
2020-09-13T15:00:26 < Cracki> watch the registers change
2020-09-13T15:00:53 < Cracki> if you use gdb, iirc gdb can be told to dump a choice of registers/variables on every step
2020-09-13T15:02:12 < zyp> yeah
2020-09-13T15:02:25 < zyp> «display» IIRC
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2020-09-13T15:10:07 < Cracki> cute assembly. it noticed that you have a constant of 5, and 80 (5*16)
2020-09-13T15:11:07 < catphish> lol
2020-09-13T15:16:56 < catphish> this is more useful, the difference between -O1 that works https://paste.ubuntu.com/p/fpBdVqWPQg/ and -O2 that doesn't https://paste.ubuntu.com/p/cDGqPgVCPx/
2020-09-13T15:17:00 < catphish> they're much more similar
2020-09-13T15:20:06 < Cracki> which is which
2020-09-13T15:20:09 < Cracki> ah
2020-09-13T15:20:20 < Cracki> the one that doesn't has str+ldr right after each other
2020-09-13T15:20:23 < Cracki> told ya, try a nop
2020-09-13T15:21:04 < Cracki> I suspect it's this delay slot stuff
2020-09-13T15:21:30 < Cracki> or pipeline or whatever requires assembly to be somewhat interweaved
2020-09-13T15:22:09 < Cracki> def do step through that. L15, ldr r3, [r2, #8], that should give you the value that was just stored... and if not, that would be the problem
2020-09-13T15:22:11 < catphish> Cracki: this works: https://paste.ubuntu.com/p/D9Z58knnfh/
2020-09-13T15:22:19 < zyp> wtf is that way of using systick
2020-09-13T15:22:48 < Cracki> that works likely because of the nop
2020-09-13T15:22:50 < catphish> zyp: it's my way of doing sleeps non-interrupt-driven programs :)
2020-09-13T15:23:01 < Cracki> you don't need to factor out the "exitval" expression
2020-09-13T15:23:11 < catphish> Cracki: is this just a plail bug in GCC?
2020-09-13T15:23:21 < zyp> catphish, why use systick?
2020-09-13T15:23:21 < Cracki> I think he's criticizing you resetting the systick instead of calculating with it
2020-09-13T15:23:22 < catphish> Cracki: oh yeah, i was just playing, i'll put that back inline
2020-09-13T15:23:33 < Cracki> _might_ be an issue with gcc, I don't understand this well enough
2020-09-13T15:23:37 < catphish> zyp: how else would i count cycles?
2020-09-13T15:24:04 < zyp> I don't know, maybe by using the cycle counter?
2020-09-13T15:24:15 < catphish> there's a cycle counter?
2020-09-13T15:24:23 < Cracki> I'd use systick. generating a loop of nops, when interrupted, would fuck up the time
2020-09-13T15:24:33 < Cracki> the cycle counter would be an alternative :D
2020-09-13T15:26:32 < zyp> there's DWT_CYCCNT in the DWT block, I've used it for short delays before
2020-09-13T15:27:09 < zyp> disadvantage is that it requires you to enable the DWT block which IIRC draws some power
2020-09-13T15:27:27 < zyp> it's meant for timestamping trace events
2020-09-13T15:27:57 < catphish> well, what i'm gonna do is, i'm gonna keey using systick, because it works great
2020-09-13T15:28:01 < catphish> *keep
2020-09-13T15:28:06 < zyp> uh
2020-09-13T15:28:10 < zyp> obviously not :)
2020-09-13T15:28:25 < catphish> well it does when GCC isn't being an ass-hat
2020-09-13T15:28:47 < zyp> I don't see gcc doing anything wrong
2020-09-13T15:28:52 < Cracki> there's pipelining
2020-09-13T15:29:05 < Cracki> I think the str+ldr causes the ldr to fetch the value from _before_ the str
2020-09-13T15:29:27 < Cracki> I'd like to hear a yay or nay on this
2020-09-13T15:29:41 < zyp> you seem to be hitting a race condition of sorts, shit fucks up when your code gets too fast
2020-09-13T15:29:47 < zyp> as Cracki is saying
2020-09-13T15:30:11 < Cracki> he is storing the right value so the _counter_ doing anything, or not, isn't the fault
2020-09-13T15:30:20 < catphish> do you mean GCC actually *is* reading the vale from the chip, but it hasn't reset yet?
2020-09-13T15:30:42 < Cracki> the only way I see this failing is if str+ldr without another instruciton in between causes ldr to fetch data from before the str "took hold"
2020-09-13T15:30:50 < Cracki> that's what I suspect
2020-09-13T15:30:50 < catphish> or is this about the order of the setup?
2020-09-13T15:31:10 < Cracki> if a single nop between str+ldr causes it to work or not, that would be my bet
2020-09-13T15:31:13 < catphish> i guess the nop wouldn't affect the order of the setup, so it's just a race with the hardware
2020-09-13T15:31:19 < Cracki> because the value _is_ correct for the calculation
2020-09-13T15:31:34 < Cracki> you really should singlestep through this and check the registers' contents
2020-09-13T15:31:52 < zyp> I'll look up systick docs to see exactly what you're doing
2020-09-13T15:34:43 < zyp> ah, right
2020-09-13T15:34:55 < catphish> now that it works, i don't really mind :)
2020-09-13T15:35:16 < catphish> thanks for looking!
2020-09-13T15:35:43 < zyp> that's a bit weird actually, reading the same address as you're writing normally forces the write to go through before proceeding
2020-09-13T15:37:52 < Cracki> this looks relevant https://developer.arm.com/documentation/ddi0337/e/instruction-timing/load-store-timings
2020-09-13T15:38:02 < Cracki> > data store is performed at the same time as the next instruction is executing
2020-09-13T15:38:57 < Cracki> different bases too
2020-09-13T15:39:10 < Cracki> [r3, #8] vs [r2, #8]
2020-09-13T15:39:16 < Cracki> not sure how much that matters
2020-09-13T15:39:17 < zyp> anyway, I propose the following: https://paste.jvnv.net/view/8Owx8
2020-09-13T15:40:00 < Cracki> *g* that's sensible
2020-09-13T15:40:04 < zyp> not sure the first line is strictly required, so you could try without
2020-09-13T15:40:33 < catphish> zyp: you don't set VAL like that, but otherwise that might be a good solution
2020-09-13T15:41:08 < catphish> > A write of any value clears the field to 0, and also clears the COUNTFLAG bit in the STK_CTRL register to 0.
2020-09-13T15:41:09 < zyp> ah, right, you have to go through the load
2020-09-13T15:41:11 < catphish> yeah
2020-09-13T15:41:22 < catphish> but that's okay
2020-09-13T15:41:24 < Cracki> cycle counter https://www.embedded-computing.com/articles/measuring-code-execution-time-on-arm-cortex-m-mcus
2020-09-13T15:43:23 < Cracki> ok so writing ffffff to it would have still caused it to write 0
2020-09-13T15:43:32 < Cracki> that makes sense now
2020-09-13T15:44:50 < Cracki> so if str+ldr _isn't_ inconsistent, the nop "just" gives it time to overflow and load...
2020-09-13T15:51:20 < catphish> well i'm going for a run now, thanks again :)
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2020-09-13T17:54:03 < zyp> ok
2020-09-13T17:56:26 < Steffanx> So did you ever get to solve this switch/collision issue you had mr zyp?
2020-09-13T18:08:47 < zyp> not yet
2020-09-13T18:09:20 < zyp> opened a support case with microchip, had some back and forth but nothing useful yet
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2020-09-13T18:21:12 < R2COM> so both the fx3 and ft602 chips from ftdi have only 32 data bnits (pins), and that means 3.2gbps at its max
2020-09-13T18:21:25 < R2COM> no idea why the fuck they wrote 5 gbps in beginning of datasheet
2020-09-13T18:21:42 < R2COM> even if phy can do it but you cannot push as much data due to pin (bits) limitation
2020-09-13T18:22:23 < R2COM> (100mhz capable pins)
2020-09-13T18:27:10 < zyp> R2COM, you missed some chatter from earlier today
2020-09-13T18:27:49 < R2COM> what key point did i miss
2020-09-13T18:27:53 < zyp> usb3 gen1 is 5gbit line rate, but with 8b10b coding you only have 4gbit usable before framing overhead
2020-09-13T18:28:53 < zyp> so having «only» a 3.2gbit parallel interface on the other side is probably not too far from being able to saturate a link
2020-09-13T18:29:39 < R2COM> but theres no usb3 gen 1
2020-09-13T18:29:43 < R2COM> 3.0
2020-09-13T18:29:45 < R2COM> 3.1 gen 1
2020-09-13T18:29:49 < R2COM> 3.1 gen 2
2020-09-13T18:29:53 < R2COM> so
2020-09-13T18:29:59 < R2COM> usb 3.1 gen 1 - 8b/10b
2020-09-13T18:30:01 < R2COM> ah yes
2020-09-13T18:30:33 < R2COM> btw that is what they say "old specification" there is another name for "USB 3.1 gen 2" it is "usb 3.2 gen 2x1"
2020-09-13T18:30:38 < R2COM> or
2020-09-13T18:30:48 < R2COM> usb 3.2 gen1x1 - and that one is 8b/10b
2020-09-13T18:30:49 < zyp> the gen1/gen2 naming is new, gen1 refers to the 5gbit mode that was introduced in 3.0 and gen2 refers to the 10gbit mode introduced in 3.1
2020-09-13T18:31:16 < zyp> and then 3.2 introduced the possibility for using two lanes, for either of the two speeds
2020-09-13T18:31:21 < R2COM> 10gbit mode is 128b/132b
2020-09-13T18:31:26 < zyp> correct
2020-09-13T18:31:43 < R2COM> so... 128b/132b then can do 20 if im right
2020-09-13T18:31:46 < R2COM> gbps
2020-09-13T18:31:53 < R2COM> with two lanes
2020-09-13T18:32:02 < zyp> gen2x2 gets close, yes
2020-09-13T18:32:04 < R2COM> with 1 lane - 10 gbps
2020-09-13T18:33:03 < zyp> but both fx3 and ft602 only does gen1x1
2020-09-13T18:33:21 < R2COM> which is 8b/10b then
2020-09-13T18:33:25 < zyp> correct
2020-09-13T18:33:45 < R2COM> any chips on market similar to these but say, more expencive, but what can do >5,10 gbps?
2020-09-13T18:34:00 < R2COM> quick search didnt show anything
2020-09-13T18:34:03 < jpa-> at those speeds, i'd just do pci-e directly
2020-09-13T18:34:09 < zyp> I don't know of any
2020-09-13T18:34:35 < R2COM> as i mentioned there is a way to make it on fpga, but you need expencive one, you wont get away with <$100 fpga
2020-09-13T18:34:37 < zyp> jpa-, depends what you're doing, really
2020-09-13T18:34:44 < R2COM> ultrascale Kintex devices start at $1k
2020-09-13T18:35:05 < R2COM> + add cost of IP (unless you spend tremendous amount on its development...)
2020-09-13T18:35:14 < R2COM> amount of time
2020-09-13T18:36:50 < zyp> but yeah, if you need something faster than usb3 gen1x1, pcie at least have better availability
2020-09-13T18:37:16 < R2COM> availability you mean in controllers for drop-in?
2020-09-13T18:38:01 < zyp> I mean that for instance I have a fpga board here that's hooked up with pcie gen2 x4
2020-09-13T18:38:13 < jpa-> R2COM: what is your data coming from?
2020-09-13T18:38:31 < R2COM> fpga
2020-09-13T18:38:40 < R2COM> through parallel IO lets say
2020-09-13T18:38:55 < R2COM> so one would just need core from xilinx
2020-09-13T18:38:57 < jpa-> yeah, pci-e is quite fpga-friendly AFAIK
2020-09-13T18:39:21 < zyp> I mean, pcie gen2 physical layer is pretty much identical to usb3 gen1
2020-09-13T18:39:21 < R2COM> ill have to see what is available for free with full purchase of their IDE
2020-09-13T18:39:42 < zyp> it's just much more common to be able to run more lanes
2020-09-13T18:39:53 < jpa-> not sure how long pauses you would have in pcie transfers, i.e. how much buffer space would one need
2020-09-13T18:40:38 < jpa-> usb at such speeds quickly needs a megabyte or more of buffer
2020-09-13T18:40:59 < zyp> even usb3?
2020-09-13T18:41:41 < jpa-> not sure how fast usb3 retries after failed packet? that's often the biggest problem with usb2, it waits a millisecond before polling again
2020-09-13T18:42:04 < jpa-> so a single checksum error could cause buffers to fill up
2020-09-13T18:42:54 < zyp> idk, I don't know how that works
2020-09-13T18:44:04 < zyp> hoping to get more into that eventually
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2020-09-13T18:45:45 < jpa-> i'm reading the spec now, but so far i've only found that for isochronous endpoints data packet error will cause data to be discarded and read on next service interval; but i haven't found what happens for bulk
2020-09-13T18:49:03 < jpa-> ok, looks like USB3 has retry field in the ACK packet, and if it receives checksum error it will immediately send ACK with request to resend
2020-09-13T18:49:52 < jpa-> so at least that is better than USB2 that just stays silent after error
2020-09-13T18:51:27 < R2COM> anyway.. 10 gbps ethernet is *doable* with Kintex7  -1 device, ~$140
2020-09-13T18:54:39 < R2COM> also... in next major PC overhaul i hope id be able to purchase motherboard with bunch of USB4s and couple 10Gbe ethernets :)
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2020-09-13T20:30:04 < englishman> zynq ultrascale is comparatively good value
2020-09-13T20:30:18 < englishman> $300 and you get a dual 64b arm core, native usb3
2020-09-13T20:30:35 < englishman> and a silly amount of ps-pl bandwidth
2020-09-13T20:30:40 < englishman> ddr4 as well'
2020-09-13T20:31:36 < englishman> can still use the free vivado, too
2020-09-13T20:33:54 < zyp> the ultra96 board looks a bit cute
2020-09-13T20:34:37 < zyp> just a shame it doesn't have any PL serdes
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2020-09-13T20:46:27 < Steffanx> And a wonderful buggy code generator you get as well?
2020-09-13T20:46:37 < zyp> Mangy_Dog, sup? what are you working on these days?
2020-09-13T20:46:39 < Steffanx> In a wonderful set of tcl files
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2020-09-13T20:53:30 < karlp> yay. had been having intermittent problems with amouse, stopped working, decided to go buy a new one.
2020-09-13T20:53:34 < karlp> doesn't work either
2020-09-13T20:53:43 < karlp> just tried it in the wife's mac, doesn'tt work tthere either.
2020-09-13T20:53:48 < karlp> great day
2020-09-13T20:53:53 < Steffanx> Heh. The joy
2020-09-13T20:53:59 -!- oofus_ [~quassel@88.97.72.251] has joined ##stm32
2020-09-13T20:54:09 < Steffanx> Where a mouse can ruine a day. 
2020-09-13T20:54:12 < karlp> receiver looks like perfectly accepted plain old hid
2020-09-13T20:54:31 < karlp> it's surprisingly hard tto do tthings on computers without them these days.
2020-09-13T20:55:11 < karlp> I'm not really believing that it's justt tdead out of the box, but I guess it could be?
2020-09-13T21:08:31 < R2COM> what a miserable shit this cypress fx3 support suite is
2020-09-13T21:08:43 < R2COM> to get demo or template project you need to download their shit soft
2020-09-13T21:08:51 < R2COM> which does not install for some reason no matter what
2020-09-13T21:09:01 < R2COM> at end of install process some error pops up and rollback starts
2020-09-13T21:09:21 < R2COM> so workaround is to kill install task after you see  error...but then suite is installed
2020-09-13T21:09:22 < R2COM> lol
2020-09-13T21:09:47 < R2COM> and then you load shit using that mangled shitty Eclipse they give
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2020-09-13T21:12:31 < R2COM> zyp wow so its $249?
2020-09-13T21:12:37 < R2COM> but isnt that chip $500 or so
2020-09-13T21:12:45 < R2COM> the zynq ultrascale+ itself
2020-09-13T21:12:51 < R2COM> so how come board is cheaper 
2020-09-13T21:12:54 < R2COM> or am i missing something
2020-09-13T21:19:18 < R2COM> Zu3EG is ~$450-500
2020-09-13T21:19:24 < R2COM> from digikley
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2020-09-13T22:14:40 < antto> for the bored: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eP_c72IjUOY
2020-09-13T22:20:56 < Steffanx> what are you watching antto? Anime?
2020-09-13T22:21:07 < antto> eh?
2020-09-13T22:21:24 < antto> did u even click on it?
2020-09-13T22:21:46 < Steffanx> Yes, but there are voices in the background
2020-09-13T22:21:58 < Steffanx> -but
2020-09-13T22:22:10 < antto> window woz open
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2020-09-13T22:31:08 < Cracki> what's with the international symbol for anal fisting on the board
2020-09-13T22:31:18 < antto> shadap
2020-09-13T22:32:43 < Cracki> that flux brush reminds me I wanted to order some china flux
2020-09-13T22:33:16 < antto> the brush is part of the flux bottle btw
2020-09-13T22:33:20 < Cracki> how goes it with the fine needle point iron
2020-09-13T22:33:27 -!- soreau is now known as soreau_
2020-09-13T22:34:10 < Cracki> i wonder how well one could solder with one of those laser thingies they use to vaporize glued on glass backs from iphones
2020-09-13T22:34:34 < Cracki> industrially laser soldering seems to be a thing
2020-09-13T22:35:05 < Cracki> not sure what wavelengths they use, how much it's reflected vs. absorbed etc
2020-09-13T22:36:24 < Cracki> looks like it's existed for a few years http://yhype.com/x0xlarge/
2020-09-13T22:36:46 < antto> yes, that's the 2020 remake
2020-09-13T22:36:54 < antto> i mean the one from the video
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2020-09-13T22:37:04 < Cracki> ah musics
2020-09-13T22:37:06 < antto> final version, made in kicad, on gitlab..
2020-09-13T22:37:14 < Cracki> https://www.ladyada.net/make/x0xb0x/
2020-09-13T22:39:04 < mawk> who talked to me
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2020-09-13T22:52:34 < Steffanx> yo momma
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2020-09-13T23:07:48 < catphish> holy crap, i just fired up my electronic ignition with a 3v supply, and it's making 20mm sparks
2020-09-13T23:08:21 < Steffanx> did you get a fire extinguisher yet? :P :D :)
2020-09-13T23:09:18 < catphish> nope
2020-09-13T23:10:41 < PaulFertser> Steffanx: where's braindamage?
2020-09-13T23:12:57 < Steffanx> He's still somewhere on this earth. Unless its not him that replied.
2020-09-13T23:28:13 < qyx> TIL about Parshall flumes
2020-09-13T23:29:00 < Cracki> https://www.openchannelflow.com/blog/how-to-read-a-parshall-flume1
2020-09-13T23:29:05 < Cracki> fun
2020-09-13T23:33:02 < catphish> so, this is running at 60Hz with a charge time of 500us
2020-09-13T23:33:11 < catphish> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6MqTckoWiVA
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2020-09-13T23:34:10 < Cracki> get a fire extinguisher. who knows how fire-retardant that carpet is
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2020-09-13T23:51:23 < Steffanx> in the UK everthing is highly fire-retardant afaik.
2020-09-13T23:51:43 < catphish> Steffanx: it is
2020-09-13T23:52:05 < catphish> also, it's moderatelly unlikely this arc is going to fall down onto the carpet
2020-09-13T23:52:41 < catphish> i'm wore worries about when the high pressure fuel and the sparks come together into one place :)
2020-09-13T23:54:33 < catphish> for now, i still need to get my head around how to actually time the ignition, it's kind of a pain
2020-09-13T23:55:26 < englishman> with a timer
2020-09-13T23:56:12 < englishman> Steffanx: except the towers
2020-09-13T23:57:16 < catphish> well, perhaps a timer :)
2020-09-13T23:58:37 < Cracki> I'm sure this shit is taught in university courses and some of that material has been pirated and floats around the internet
--- Day changed Mon Sep 14 2020
2020-09-14T00:01:16 < catphish> tldr: the engine has points, at about 300 degrees they close, current flows, then at about 340 degrees, they open again creating a spark, i get the signal from the points, so i know when the engine passes those 2 angles
2020-09-14T00:02:29 < catphish> i want to create a spark when the points open, but i need 500-1000us to create the necessary current in the transformer
2020-09-14T00:02:34 < englishman> you might be better off making up a missing-tooth wheel so you have some resolution to work with
2020-09-14T00:02:52 < catphish> yeah, i was really hoping i could put off that bit of engineering
2020-09-14T00:03:01 < catphish> but that is of course the correct solution
2020-09-14T00:03:34 < Cracki> if you really needed more than the sensors it has, they'd sell it with better sensors
2020-09-14T00:03:35 < englishman> if you want to stay simple you could get a fixed electrical ignitor and just use its output
2020-09-14T00:03:58 < englishman> your thing will be controlling engine timing i assume?
2020-09-14T00:04:03 < Steffanx> heh, but that was a real shithole englishman
2020-09-14T00:04:11 < Cracki> a millisecond is tiny compared to the time scales this thing runs at
2020-09-14T00:07:00 < Cracki> how many rpm? 600, 1200? that's 100 or 50 ms per rotation, a millisecond is 3-7 degrees
2020-09-14T00:07:05 < catphish> so right now i have 3 options: 1) simple pass through the input fro the points to the output to the transformer, this will probably work 2) calculate the engine speed from the time taken for the previous revolution, and time my spark based on that 3) build a proper toothed wheel
2020-09-14T00:07:37 < catphish> Cracki: i think max rpm is 3600, 1ms is non-trivial
2020-09-14T00:07:45 < Cracki> okeh
2020-09-14T00:08:33 < zyp> just run a timer in input capture mode with one channel for falling edge and one channel for rising edge
2020-09-14T00:08:34 < catphish> if i just pass through the input from the points to the output, it will definitely spark at the right moment, but i have no control over the charge time, it will reduce as engine speed increases
2020-09-14T00:09:17 < zyp> and maybe a third channel in output compare mode to generate the output
2020-09-14T00:10:40 < catphish> if i want to calculate the timing myself, iguess it's a case of 1) calculate the rotation speed from the previous rotation time 2) wait for the points to close at 300 degrees, guess when the engine will pass 340 degrees, start charging accordingly, i can still create the spark when the points open, this is probably a win-win option
2020-09-14T00:11:17 < zyp> yeah, and you can use a timer to do all that
2020-09-14T00:14:15 < catphish> <englishman> if you want to stay simple you could get a fixed electrical ignitor and just use its output << i think what you mean here is exacty what i'm doing
2020-09-14T00:14:45 < englishman> yeah just using the points right?
2020-09-14T00:15:12 < catphish> englishman: yeah
2020-09-14T00:15:23 < englishman> just make sure you take off the advancing springs or whatever...
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2020-09-14T00:16:18 < catphish> englishman: in this engine the points close for a fixed portion of each rotation, i don't have much control over it
2020-09-14T00:17:12 < englishman> right, that controls coil charging, but usually theres a mechanical advance system behind the points plate that rotates the whole points assembly to advance timing as rpm increases
2020-09-14T00:17:23 < englishman> it's on what i assume is a bike
2020-09-14T00:17:51 < catphish> i'm 90% sure this engine has nothing that clever, just totally fixed timing
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2020-09-14T00:18:08 < englishman> what's the bike
2020-09-14T00:18:31 < catphish> its not a bike, it's a stationary engine (like a lawnmower engine)
2020-09-14T00:18:40 < englishman> o yeah probably not then
2020-09-14T00:19:22 < catphish> https://i.imgur.com/RsEhGPQ.jpg - https://i.imgur.com/xI5UCnI.jpg
2020-09-14T00:19:47 < catphish> shame i can't remove the exhaust pipe :)
2020-09-14T00:21:17 < englishman> what's the goal of the project?
2020-09-14T00:21:26 < catphish> to make the engine run with EFI
2020-09-14T00:21:57 < zyp> can't?
2020-09-14T00:22:16 < zyp> just unscrew it?
2020-09-14T00:22:24 < catphish> zyp: i can assure you i've tried
2020-09-14T00:22:58 < catphish> it's rusted in there very very securely
2020-09-14T00:23:01 < zyp> get a better wrench and try again
2020-09-14T00:23:20 < zyp> figure a pipe wrench should do
2020-09-14T00:23:47 < catphish> it doesn't have any square edges to grip
2020-09-14T00:24:03 < catphish> i've been trying with a locking wrench
2020-09-14T00:24:07 < zyp> hence why I suggest a pipe wrench
2020-09-14T00:24:09 < catphish> (and a hammer)
2020-09-14T00:24:28 < zyp> pipe wrenches are designed to grab round pipes
2020-09-14T00:24:41 < catphish> oh okay, well that might work
2020-09-14T00:25:28 < catphish> but... i've applied a *lot* of torque with a locking wrench and a hammer
2020-09-14T00:25:34 < catphish> and it won't budge
2020-09-14T00:25:44 < catphish> i googled it, some people have to cut them out
2020-09-14T00:26:02 < zyp> might help to heat it with a torch
2020-09-14T00:26:10 < zyp> for the thermal expansion
2020-09-14T00:26:48 < catphish> yeah, that's a possibility
2020-09-14T00:26:55 < catphish> need to heat the engine block around it i guess
2020-09-14T00:27:54 < catphish> it's a pretty terrible design, but i geuss it wasn't designed to last 50 years
2020-09-14T00:29:35 < catphish> anyway, i think passthrough from the points will work to begin with for the timing
2020-09-14T00:30:41 < catphish> just need a safety mechanism so it turns off it they're closed for too long
2020-09-14T00:32:45 < zyp> you could use timers for that too :)
2020-09-14T00:33:30 < zyp> run the output from a timer in oneshot mode, chained from the input timer
2020-09-14T00:35:04 < catphish> you do like timers don't you :)
2020-09-14T00:35:29 < zyp> I like anything that makes my work easier
2020-09-14T00:35:42 < zyp> timers have a lot of tricks
2020-09-14T00:35:50 < Cracki> time to get to know the watchdog timer as well
2020-09-14T00:36:33 < catphish> but you're right, this can near enough be implemented entirely in silicon
2020-09-14T00:38:01 < catphish> when points close, charge the igbt, when points open, discharge igbt, if points are closed for 20ms, open them anyway, also, when points open, initiate a fixed length pulse of the fuel injector output
2020-09-14T00:49:46 < englishman> why not keep the stock ignition and focus on EFI?
2020-09-14T00:51:45 < catphish> englishman: you raise a valid question, the main answer is that removing the stock ignition game me an easy crank position sensor without having to add anything mechanical
2020-09-14T00:52:16 < englishman> could you still tap into the low voltage points circuit tho?
2020-09-14T00:53:17 < catphish> potentially
2020-09-14T00:54:04 < catphish> but i think it'll be okay passing it though
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2020-09-14T03:23:01 < Laurenceb> I just paid to watch Cuties, but all I got was a hard on
2020-09-14T03:24:42 < mawk> load_image doesn't seem to work with eeprom PaulFertser 
2020-09-14T03:24:45 < mawk> mwb works fine
2020-09-14T03:24:49 < mawk> for some reason
2020-09-14T03:25:04 < catphish> sorry, implemented the whole thing with no timers and no interrupts for now :) https://paste.ubuntu.com/p/6gTkz2Ssdy/
2020-09-14T03:25:28 < catphish> but i'm sure once it works, i can add some proper event driven shizzle
2020-09-14T03:25:35 < Laurenceb> >usleep
2020-09-14T03:25:37 < Laurenceb> ewwwwww
2020-09-14T03:25:46 < mawk> fast_load doesn't work either
2020-09-14T03:25:56 < Laurenceb> the arduino programming style
2020-09-14T03:26:04 < catphish> Laurenceb: indeed!
2020-09-14T03:26:13 < Laurenceb> >lets just hang the processor
2020-09-14T03:26:19 < Laurenceb> see also, javascript
2020-09-14T03:26:49 < Laurenceb> in that case its usually just hanging the processor straight away
2020-09-14T03:26:52 < catphish> inferior but easy to know what's going on :)
2020-09-14T03:27:12 < catphish> best add some status LEDs for extra noob debugging
2020-09-14T03:27:14 < mawk> anyway I could do it with mwb for now but it's still interesting to see why load_image doesn't produce any output PaulFertser 
2020-09-14T03:27:44 < mawk> what's the nop for catphish 
2020-09-14T03:28:59 < Laurenceb> javascript + google chrome: for when u want the processor to hang and all the ram to be eaten
2020-09-14T03:29:00 < catphish> mawk: there's a weird problem with my use of systicks which means that somehow SysTick->VAL reads back as 0 immediately after you reset it, the nop gives it time to reset
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2020-09-14T03:29:43 < catphish> mawk: i intend to fix this properly by using the proper systick status flag and setting the LOAD value to my actual timeout
2020-09-14T03:29:44  * Laurenceb is pissed at his pc again
2020-09-14T03:30:04 < Laurenceb> how come a complex hundred page pdf renders in <100ms
2020-09-14T03:30:19 < Laurenceb> yet a simple webpage takes about a minute
2020-09-14T03:30:26 < Laurenceb> the state of javascript frameworks
2020-09-14T03:30:47 < catphish> mawk: there was a long conversation about it this morning, but TLDR: this code returns instantly with compiled with GCC's -O2: https://paste.ubuntu.com/p/v65ntJZCrp/
2020-09-14T03:31:03 < catphish> mawk: or rather, it does if you remove the NOP
2020-09-14T03:31:42 < Laurenceb> catphish: looks like something isnt voltaile when it should be?
2020-09-14T03:32:20 < Laurenceb> maybe try it with some typecasting
2020-09-14T03:32:24 < catphish> Laurenceb: it looks like that, but it's not that, it's somewhat more complicated
2020-09-14T03:32:39 < Laurenceb> interesting
2020-09-14T03:32:45 < catphish> every register access in that function is volatile
2020-09-14T03:32:45 < Laurenceb> did you find out what it was?
2020-09-14T03:32:54 < catphish> i did not :(
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2020-09-14T03:33:24 < Laurenceb> an odd one
2020-09-14T03:33:31 < catphish> except that adding a tiny delay fixes it, i assume it has to do with the timing of memory accesses, or the time it takes to reset the systicks internally, i'm not sure
2020-09-14T03:33:38  * Laurenceb has had numerous issues with O2, an usually avoids it
2020-09-14T03:33:53 < Laurenceb> hmm I'm not sure thats why
2020-09-14T03:33:57 < catphish> <catphish> this is more useful, the difference between -O1 that works https://paste.ubuntu.com/p/fpBdVqWPQg/ and -O2 that doesn't https://paste.ubuntu.com/p/cDGqPgVCPx/
2020-09-14T03:34:07 < catphish> ^ this is what i pasted this morning
2020-09-14T03:34:08 < Laurenceb> did you look at the asm output?
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2020-09-14T03:34:19 < Laurenceb> do hI see
2020-09-14T03:34:31 < catphish> i pasted it, but i didn't understand it, if you care, it's there
2020-09-14T03:35:11 < Laurenceb> woah thats a weird one
2020-09-14T03:36:28 < Laurenceb> yeah I'd need to do a Leo and work it out on paper
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2020-09-14T03:36:50 < Laurenceb> the -O2 doesnt look insane at a quick glance
2020-09-14T03:36:55 < Laurenceb> but something must be off
2020-09-14T03:37:56 < catphish> this is a much better approach, i haven't tested it yet though: https://paste.ubuntu.com/p/VKRRh7rh8N/
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2020-09-14T03:44:08 < Cracki> I wonder if laurence got the tshirt
2020-09-14T03:49:05 < Cracki> catphish, the problem was that writing to the counter didn't write any value, it just reset the counter... so writing ffffff still just cleared it, and reading that back right away gives you 0, not ffffff
2020-09-14T03:50:25 < Cracki> and the nop before the ldr causes the counter to progress, so it loaded the LOAD value into the counter, which is what's getting read back
2020-09-14T03:50:52 < catphish> Cracki: i'm going to have to check the manual now, maybe writing to VAL writes 0, not FFFFFF
2020-09-14T03:51:06 < Cracki> yes, that's what I said
2020-09-14T03:51:53 < catphish> Cracki: fuck, you're right, the manual even clearly says so
2020-09-14T03:51:54 < Cracki> yesterday I suggested writing ffffff to val, when writing 0 caused the code to fail (because the counter wouldn't progress between str and ldr)
2020-09-14T03:52:03 < Cracki> so my suggestion was wrong
2020-09-14T03:52:16 < catphish> "A write of any value clears the field to 0"
2020-09-14T03:52:33 < catphish> i misinterpreted that as clearing the field to the LOAD value
2020-09-14T03:52:44 < Cracki> so you'd have to set the LOAD value, then poke VAL to clear it, and then wait a cycle for it to copy LOAD to VAL
2020-09-14T03:52:49 < catphish> but it clearly says 0
2020-09-14T03:52:59 < catphish> Cracki: yes, that's exactly what i do
2020-09-14T03:53:11 < catphish> i write LOAD, clear VAL, then NOP
2020-09-14T03:53:24 < catphish> now i understand why that works, thanks
2020-09-14T03:53:34 < catphish> my new code is much better and cleaner though :)
2020-09-14T03:53:41 < catphish> assuming it actually works
2020-09-14T03:53:55 < Cracki> I think the systick will continue to run after you've detected the overflow/underflow/whatever flag
2020-09-14T03:54:09 < catphish> yeah it loops forever
2020-09-14T03:55:13 < catphish> i could disable it at the end, but i see no benefit to the extra line of code :)
2020-09-14T03:55:41 < Cracki> that's true
2020-09-14T03:56:01 < catphish> it would matter if i were using its interrupt generator
2020-09-14T03:56:59 < Cracki> I'm inclined to find an excuse to abuse the cycle counter for delays... timers are so... obvious
2020-09-14T03:57:41 < Cracki> uh, wasn't there someone in here today talking about forth
2020-09-14T03:57:44 < catphish> i use it purely because it's a core part of the cpu, it's always powered, hence no setup, no wasting a timer, no power :)
2020-09-14T03:57:58 < catphish> forth?
2020-09-14T03:58:00 < Cracki> true it's quite convenient
2020-09-14T03:58:06 < Cracki> forth, a funky old stack based language
2020-09-14T03:58:11 < Cracki> useful as a "scripting" engine
2020-09-14T03:59:37 -!- oofus_ [~quassel@88.97.72.251] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds]
2020-09-14T03:59:42 < Cracki> I still have a project to polish and if I get to it I might as well add hints of features that were out of scope
2020-09-14T04:00:12 < catphish> next week i'll have the fun of wondering whether my engine isn't working because i've injected too much fuel, or not enough
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2020-09-14T04:16:45 < Cracki> lol 4/6 forths listed here are under german control http://www.forth.org/ansforth/ansforth.html
2020-09-14T04:16:58 < Cracki> that I can recognize
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2020-09-14T05:09:03 < aandrew> catphish: which stm32
2020-09-14T05:09:47 < catphish> aandrew: this is L476RG
2020-09-14T05:10:21 < catphish> though this particular code would probably run on a baked potato it's so simple
2020-09-14T05:10:51 < aandrew> baking the potato alters its execution timing
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2020-09-14T06:16:20 < jadew> what's a good, high resolution, cheap webcam?
2020-09-14T06:16:32 -!- password5 is now known as Streaker
2020-09-14T06:16:35 < jadew> doesn't have to be fast, just high res & sharp
2020-09-14T06:23:31 < dongs> no such thing
2020-09-14T06:23:33 < dongs> they're all trash
2020-09-14T06:24:41 < jadew> yeah, that's my impression as well
2020-09-14T06:25:31 < dongs> you can get one of the proper oens with focus
2020-09-14T06:25:35 < dongs> like microsoft studio/cinema thing
2020-09-14T06:26:10 < dongs> is 4K webcam even a thing
2020-09-14T06:28:25 < jadew> I think there is
2020-09-14T06:28:43 < jadew> I have a lifecam which has very poor optics
2020-09-14T06:29:46 < dongs> really? https://image.yodobashi.com/product/100/000/001/003/590/187/100000001003590187_10204.jpg
2020-09-14T06:29:49 < dongs> this thing?
2020-09-14T06:30:14 < dongs> I think for 720piss its pretty good (i have one also)
2020-09-14T06:30:25 < dongs> compared to complete bottom of the barrel chinesium shit
2020-09-14T06:30:31 < dongs> thats like $20 for 1080p
2020-09-14T06:31:21 < jadew> yep, that one
2020-09-14T06:31:35 < jadew> I attached it to my microscope and it's so bad...
2020-09-14T06:31:44 < dongs> well, microscope...
2020-09-14T06:31:49 < dongs> its not fucking designed for that you dumbass
2020-09-14T06:31:56 < dongs> why dont you get a proper microscope cam
2020-09-14T06:32:08 < jadew> yeah, definitely, but even the phone camera has better results
2020-09-14T06:32:31 < jadew> that's what I had available
2020-09-14T06:47:52 < jadew> http://188.26.15.195/stuff/Thin%20Box%20hole%20size.jpg
2020-09-14T06:48:13 < jadew> it gets the job done, but small details are blury
2020-09-14T06:53:08 < dongs> i'd say thats probably one of the *better* webcams y ou acn get.
2020-09-14T06:53:22 < dongs> so if youre not satisfied with that, you're prolly gonna be disappointed at other shit.
2020-09-14T06:55:09 < jadew> well, that's disappointing
2020-09-14T06:56:29 < jadew> hmm, looks like prices have gone down for proper microscope cameras
2020-09-14T06:58:38 < jadew> https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/48MP-CMOS-Sensor-1-2-33-USB-Industrial-Microscope-Camera-Magnifying/402368192710
2020-09-14T06:59:01 < dongs> is that the cmount shit
2020-09-14T06:59:06 < jadew> yeah
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2020-09-14T06:59:26 < jadew> it's dirt cheap compared to what it used to cost
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2020-09-14T07:02:15 < jadew> have to go, ttyl
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2020-09-14T10:57:57 < jadew> there are both good and bad reviews on those cameras, and the good ones warn about the zoom level (not matching the eyepiece)
2020-09-14T10:59:03 < jadew> my current setup involves another eyepiece mounted on the photo port and the camera is mounted on top of that
2020-09-14T11:46:08 < jpa-> it would be rather surprising if a random camera matched the focal length of a random eyepiece :)
2020-09-14T11:47:28 < jadew> well, it seems to work fine with any camera that has its own lens (webcam, phone, SLR)
2020-09-14T11:47:46 < jpa-> something is off about those specs though, from the sensor size and pixel size the resolution is 15MP, not 48MP; not that it matters much if you only use it for video
2020-09-14T11:48:07 < jadew> yeah, that's bs
2020-09-14T11:48:19 < dongs> yeah just like a random 4K webcam i saw on amazon
2020-09-14T11:48:21 < jpa-> jadew: you mean putting the camera lens against eyepiece lens? sure, but that seems like it would give pretty crappy optical quality
2020-09-14T11:48:22 < dongs> title literally reads
2020-09-14T11:48:25 < jadew> it's just picture resolution
2020-09-14T11:48:30 < dongs> 4K webcam 1080p video <blabla>
2020-09-14T11:49:18 < jadew> jpa-, nope, I get better quality like that, than if I feed the DSLR directly from dedicated optics (so the lens is the eyepiece)
2020-09-14T11:49:59 < jpa-> sounds like something is wrong with your dedicated optics then, perhaps too large aperture?
2020-09-14T11:50:42 < jpa-> (or they are just plain wrong focal length for the situation)
2020-09-14T11:51:19 < jpa-> in many microscopes you can even just mount camera at the photo port without any extra optics, which gets rid of all the aberrations that would occur in the eyepiece
2020-09-14T11:51:35 < jadew> not sure, but I assumed that a lens that was made for that particular camera just works better with an eyepiece, that was also made to create a particular type of image at a particular distance
2020-09-14T11:51:53 < jadew> (like all eypieces)
2020-09-14T11:52:06 < jpa-> ah, sure, lens meant for imaging objects at a couple meters of distance will not work without eyepiece in the photo port
2020-09-14T11:53:41 < jadew> I tried various setups and the reason I went for eyepiece + camera is because I noticed that my phone through eyepiece photos, were better than the ones made with the DSLR, with microscope dedicated optics
2020-09-14T11:54:03 < jadew> so adding another eyepiece to the photo port seemed like the logical next step
2020-09-14T11:54:34 < jpa-> does your current eyepiece work in the photo port? i.e. is the focal distance to the photo port the same?
2020-09-14T11:54:41 < jadew> yeah
2020-09-14T11:54:43 < jpa-> ok
2020-09-14T11:55:10 < jpa-> in some microscopes it is different or they have integrated lens as part of photo port
2020-09-14T11:56:06 < jadew> yeah, I was afraid that that might be the case, but it seems to work fine, regardless of the zoom level
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2020-09-14T11:56:41 < jpa-> not sure why it wouldn't work if you have the correct eyepiece port to camera optics, but if you get good enough quality & light with the eyepiece hack, that's fine
2020-09-14T11:56:44 < jadew> my biggest gripe (other than the image quality) is that I have to turn one eyepiece off when using the photoport
2020-09-14T11:56:59 < jadew> there are some trinocular heads where you can have all 3 ports active at the same time
2020-09-14T11:57:37 < jpa-> is it fast to switch?
2020-09-14T11:57:49 < jadew> yeah, you just pull a lever
2020-09-14T11:58:04 < jpa-> :)
2020-09-14T11:58:27 < jadew> :)
2020-09-14T11:59:37 < jpa-> the microscope my ex-workplace had had such trinocular head, and the photo port had some kind of C or CS mount directly that you just connected the camera to - i guess it had whatever optics built-in
2020-09-14T12:00:55 < jpa-> the photos i have seen people take with camera against eyepiece have been quite crappy, but i guess with proper alignment it can be good
2020-09-14T12:01:25 < jadew> let me see if I can take one
2020-09-14T12:06:31 < jadew> same thing as before, but with the phone: http://188.26.15.195/stuff/20200914_120400.jpg
2020-09-14T12:06:57 < jadew> there's so much more detail
2020-09-14T12:08:08 < jadew> needless to say, it's even better with the naked eye, so it could be even better
2020-09-14T12:09:38 < jadew> maybe I should just make an adapter for a phone, and keep it always connected
2020-09-14T12:10:47 < jadew> or move the camera out of the phone and use it as an overhead monitor, while also transmitting the data to the PC
2020-09-14T12:10:49 < jadew> hmm...
2020-09-14T12:10:54 < jpa-> hmm yeah, pretty good quality though wastes a bunch of sensor area
2020-09-14T12:11:15 < jadew> it does, yeah
2020-09-14T12:12:26 < jpa-> https://jyvaskyla.hacklab.fi/wp-content/uploads/2017/09/20160426_mikroskooppi.jpg   this is the kind of results i've typically seen, gets blurry at the edges
2020-09-14T12:12:41 < jpa-> though that is also scaled apparently
2020-09-14T12:13:03 < jadew> that looks pretty good
2020-09-14T12:13:40 < jadew> and it seems to have crazy depth of field
2020-09-14T12:42:02 < jpa-> to me it looks like straight edges aren't straight and bottom edge of circle has weird reflection etc :)
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2020-09-14T14:04:12 < Mangy_Dog> Well shit, it happened. Nvidia bought out ARM! D: Its been fun guys! *starts packing his bags and hordes his last remaining ARM stl chips...
2020-09-14T14:04:57 < jpa-> how does that matter when all you buy is fakes from china?
2020-09-14T14:06:37 < Mangy_Dog> even my fake chips will go up in cost
2020-09-14T14:06:38 < Mangy_Dog> !
2020-09-14T14:07:51 < jpa-> funny how you can predict nvidia's business decisions so accurately
2020-09-14T14:08:11 < Mangy_Dog> its not hard to predict
2020-09-14T14:08:13 < jpa-> i'd expect ST's licensing deals to be negotiated for years or maybe decades in advance
2020-09-14T14:08:44 < jpa-> why not? why would ARM have been charging less before, if it would make better profit when charging more?
2020-09-14T14:09:09 < Mangy_Dog> doesnt matter...
2020-09-14T14:09:16 < jpa-> you think ARM executives or softbank are just doing it for the lulz, and nvidia is in it for the money?
2020-09-14T14:09:21 < Mangy_Dog> a buyout always garrentees one thing. no matter who buys out
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2020-09-14T14:14:25 < jpa-> looks like AVR's are cheaper now than before microchip bought them (e.g. ATTINY10 cost $1.01 in singles on digikey in 2016, now it costs just $0.33)
2020-09-14T14:16:13 < englishman> SoftBank didn't stop selling arm licenses
2020-09-14T14:16:16 < englishman> why would nvidia
2020-09-14T14:16:19 < Mangy_Dog> atmega328p is still roughly $2.10 
2020-09-14T14:16:32 < Mangy_Dog> on lcsc
2020-09-14T14:16:36 < jpa-> Mangy_Dog: and how much was it before 2016?
2020-09-14T14:16:45 < Mangy_Dog> i couldnt guess
2020-09-14T14:16:50 < Mangy_Dog> but i suspect a bit more
2020-09-14T14:17:02 < englishman> buying an IP licensinf company then refusing to license any IP would be pretty poor for business
2020-09-14T14:17:09 < jpa-> so, *what* is the magic thing that a buyout guarantees?
2020-09-14T14:17:25 < Mangy_Dog> englishman i dont think they plan to stop selling lisences
2020-09-14T14:17:34 < Mangy_Dog> but its almost certainly going to increase costs
2020-09-14T14:17:37 < englishman> I'd also like to know this buyout guarantee
2020-09-14T14:17:40 < Mangy_Dog> but the issue really is competision
2020-09-14T14:17:50 < Mangy_Dog> in the wider range outside of mcus
2020-09-14T14:17:58 < jpa-> why does change of owner increase costs?
2020-09-14T14:18:05 < Mangy_Dog> jpg
2020-09-14T14:18:07 < Mangy_Dog> jpa
2020-09-14T14:18:11 < Mangy_Dog> because it always does
2020-09-14T14:18:23 < jpa-> do you have *anything* to back this up
2020-09-14T14:18:33 < Mangy_Dog> the buying company wants to see some quick return proffits to help cover thec osts of the buy out
2020-09-14T14:18:33 < englishman> also it is interesting that Apple did not purchase arm. maybe they do not see the value at $40b or they are already far ahead in their riscV tech
2020-09-14T14:18:58 < Mangy_Dog> jpa not on hand, but its how every single buy out of any company has ever happened in the past
2020-09-14T14:19:36 < jpa-> Mangy_Dog: eh, why is it any different from other investments, either maximize short-term profits or long-term profits
2020-09-14T14:20:00 < jpa-> and if a company has money to buy out another company, they are not short on cash and don't need to focus on short-term profits
2020-09-14T14:20:23 < englishman> tesla refused to buy mobileye then Intel bought them for $5b. it took tesla 3 years to have tech on par with what mobileye was offering. probably cost much less than $5b. maybe apple feels the same way about arm
2020-09-14T14:20:39 < jpa-> also softbank has been messing up things lately, so i'd be more worried if ARM stayed under them
2020-09-14T14:20:59 < englishman> SoftBank needs the cash to pay back the Arabs for their WeWork "investment"
2020-09-14T14:21:41 < englishman> $8b profit from arm but $9b loss from WeWork
2020-09-14T14:21:45 < englishman> investing!!
2020-09-14T14:21:54 < Mangy_Dog> jpa if softbank had messed up arm and they managed to lower the price 
2020-09-14T14:22:03 < Mangy_Dog> it would have been easier for ARM to be bought out by some one in the uk
2020-09-14T14:22:09 < Mangy_Dog> which is what ARM wanted
2020-09-14T14:22:31 < jpa-> "ARM wanted"?
2020-09-14T14:22:37 < jpa-> who is that?
2020-09-14T14:22:38 < Mangy_Dog> yes
2020-09-14T14:22:57 < Mangy_Dog> ARM main top dogs.... and founders didnt want nvidia to buy them out
2020-09-14T14:23:04 < jpa-> source?
2020-09-14T14:23:04 < Mangy_Dog> they wanted the UK gov to take it under uk ownership
2020-09-14T14:23:20 < englishman> is he going to link to one of his own posts on hackaday
2020-09-14T14:23:35 < Mangy_Dog> https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/technology-54142567
2020-09-14T14:25:21 < jpa-> sure, there are valid concerns for UK in the sale, but that article doesn't appear to match at all any of the things Mangy_Dog is rambling about
2020-09-14T14:26:30 < Mangy_Dog> It's a deal which the man who founded ARM says is a disaster.
2020-09-14T14:26:42 < Mangy_Dog> And many in the UK's technology industry will agree with Hermann Hauser.
2020-09-14T14:26:57 < jpa-> disaster for who? for UK?
2020-09-14T14:27:38 < Mangy_Dog> uk.... arm likel ytoo
2020-09-14T14:27:42 < jpa-> also to me it appears that the two ARM founders involved themselves have very little to do with the company in recent years, so it is quite confusing to call them "ARM"
2020-09-14T14:27:49 < Mangy_Dog> anyway the specific quote isnt on the page any more :/ its been edited 40 minnutes ago
2020-09-14T14:28:05 < Mangy_Dog> But two of ARM's co-founders have raised other issues about the takeover.
2020-09-14T14:28:05 < Mangy_Dog> Hermann Hauser and Tudor Brown had suggested ARM should remain "neutral", rather than be owned by a company like Nvidia, which produces its own processors.
2020-09-14T14:29:23 < karlp> englishman: or maybe apple just thinks, "hey, we mgiht get a few years of ip violations without getting caught with all the changes"
2020-09-14T14:29:48 < karlp> you think they're doing riscv?
2020-09-14T14:29:48 < jpa-> "why will its hundreds of other customers now have faith that they will have equal access to its technology" is a valid concern of course, but also seems quite different concern than you have
2020-09-14T14:30:02 < karlp> not just doing their own thing?
2020-09-14T14:30:29 < Mangy_Dog> karlp, or more likely the fines will just be treated as part of the cost of running the buisness.... Apple are more than big enough to take the fines without breaking a sweat
2020-09-14T14:30:41 < jpa-> if i had to make wild guesses, i wouldn't be surprised if someone ends up challenging the copyright/patentibility of ARM instruction set in court
2020-09-14T14:30:59 < jpa-> apple could probably design their own ARM-compatible CPU in a clean room design
2020-09-14T14:31:04 < karlp> why didn't we ever see that with mips?
2020-09-14T14:31:35 < karlp> and yeah, I _imagine_ apple would stick with cortex compatible for their clients and tooling, but... *shrugs*
2020-09-14T14:31:56 < karlp> must be pretty hard to defend cleanroom design though.
2020-09-14T14:32:08 < karlp> which bits are you allowed to look at?
2020-09-14T14:32:18 < jpa-> yeah, it would probably be a decade long courtroom battle
2020-09-14T14:32:25 < englishman> how are you going to hire arm-core designers that have never seen an arm-core
2020-09-14T14:32:42 < englishman> maybe the msp430 team
2020-09-14T14:32:45 < englishman> if so: rip apple
2020-09-14T14:33:37 < jpa-> clean room with regards to copyright usually doesn't require that you have never seen or used such a core, it just deals with proving that no direct copying could have occurred
2020-09-14T14:34:02 < jpa-> patents is a different thing, clean room design does not help with them, but in my opinion the patentability of instruction set designs is a bit questionable still
2020-09-14T14:35:09 < jpa-> you can write a new libc even if you have used a libc before, even if you have looked at its code; just make specifications and prove you've worked from them and not the source code of existing libc's
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2020-09-14T14:38:07 < jpa-> the reason why apple didn't buy ARM might be exactly because they are not interested to sell licenses to others, so ARM wouldn't be as valuable to them
2020-09-14T14:40:14 < Mangy_Dog> one interesting question that arrises, if apple were to have bought out ARM, for that very reason. Would they shut down ARMs lisecing and take it all inhouse to keep it for themselves... Sure it would kill all the potential profits of selling those lisences. But at the same time Apple likes to horde.... Anyway Would a regulator stop apple from doing something like that if they chose to?
2020-09-14T14:40:47 < karlp> I don't think they woulv ehave seen that as a useful purchase
2020-09-14T14:42:02 < Mangy_Dog> well unless they basically wanted to shut down snapdraggon in one swoop
2020-09-14T14:42:16 < Mangy_Dog> the idea to buy out the underlying tech to remove it from the competitors
2020-09-14T14:43:00 < jpa-> one naive way to look at it is through P/E ratios: apple is at ~80, arm ~60, nvidia ~50 in longer term averages; so for apple, buying ARM would have made less profit than just investing in their own business
2020-09-14T14:43:40 < jpa-> Mangy_Dog: i doubt ARM license terms would allow such withdrawal
2020-09-14T14:44:07 < Mangy_Dog> maybe not... but i cent help but think apple still woudltn try
2020-09-14T14:44:12 < Mangy_Dog> if they had taken arm
2020-09-14T14:44:31 < Mangy_Dog> basically not to make profit from arms tech but to control it and remove the competision off the take
2020-09-14T14:44:41 < Mangy_Dog> table
2020-09-14T14:45:13 < jpa-> sounds like a way to get EU angry at you
2020-09-14T14:46:22 < Mangy_Dog> sadly i fear the eu has little in the way of stopping such a thing
2020-09-14T14:46:31 < Mangy_Dog> they sure can kick up a stink
2020-09-14T14:46:33 < Mangy_Dog> throw some sand
2020-09-14T14:46:47 < Mangy_Dog> but in the end its just hot air and huff :/
2020-09-14T14:47:00 < Mangy_Dog> (btw im anti brexit, i wish we were remaining)
2020-09-14T14:59:25 < jpa-> oh, you are from laurenceland? explains something.
2020-09-14T15:01:16 < mawk> chrome is taking 28 GiB
2020-09-14T15:01:19 < mawk> world record
2020-09-14T15:23:15 < Steffanx> Where is stvn? Is stvn/jly dead?
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2020-09-14T15:44:03 < dongs> where's crt
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2020-09-14T15:44:44 < mawk> he's at the kkk rally Steffanx 
2020-09-14T15:44:58 < Steffanx> Maybr
2020-09-14T15:45:00 < Steffanx> Maybe
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2020-09-14T15:45:30 < dongs> mangy_dong sup
2020-09-14T15:45:33 < dongs> how's your patreon
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2020-09-14T15:56:20 < Mangy_Dog> Its patreoning, I have 1 patron at the mo... who knows might get more 
2020-09-14T15:56:47 < dongs> i was gonna sign up for someones gaytreon one day
2020-09-14T15:56:53 < dongs> then i read they take like 30% cut
2020-09-14T15:56:56 < dongs> and only take credit cards lmao
2020-09-14T15:57:01 < dongs> in 2020
2020-09-14T15:57:33 < Mangy_Dog> and yeah tbh patreons fees dont seem great
2020-09-14T15:57:44 < Mangy_Dog> but im giving it a try
2020-09-14T15:57:47 < Mangy_Dog> see where it goes if anywhere
2020-09-14T15:57:52 < dongs> $anything is better than $0
2020-09-14T15:58:08 < Mangy_Dog> indeed
2020-09-14T15:59:03 < englishman> what else are they going to take?
2020-09-14T15:59:06 < englishman> buttcoins?
2020-09-14T15:59:12 < dongs> idk, gaypal 
2020-09-14T15:59:26 < englishman> gaypal is still around?
2020-09-14T15:59:50 < karlp> what are onlyfans fees like?
2020-09-14T15:59:58 < dongs> isnt onlyfans onyl for porn
2020-09-14T16:00:06 < Mangy_Dog> funnilty
2020-09-14T16:00:08 < Mangy_Dog> funnily
2020-09-14T16:00:14 < karlp> wellllll
2020-09-14T16:00:15 < Mangy_Dog> I found out recently that... no
2020-09-14T16:00:16 < Mangy_Dog> its not
2020-09-14T16:00:21 < Mangy_Dog> it just has A LOT of porn on it
2020-09-14T16:00:33 < Mangy_Dog> its meant to basically be a patreon alt
2020-09-14T16:00:44 < Mangy_Dog> for all sorts of artistic stuff
2020-09-14T16:00:53 < Mangy_Dog> performance stuff music
2020-09-14T16:00:59 < Mangy_Dog> but a lot of porn too
2020-09-14T16:01:16 < karlp> so, allegedly it's only 20% on onlyfans
2020-09-14T16:01:32 < dongs> https://www.businessinsider.com/onlyfans-monica-huldt-describes-how-makes-money-2020-3
2020-09-14T16:01:57 < Mangy_Dog> maybe i should take up porn
2020-09-14T16:02:01 < Mangy_Dog> seems to be money in porn
2020-09-14T16:02:01 < dongs> definitely.
2020-09-14T16:02:02 < Mangy_Dog> !
2020-09-14T16:03:19 < Mangy_Dog> but in all seriousness.... it kinda peeves me off a little... Patreon, i have two teirs, both are just suport teirs, on the upper teir I se tit to 5 quid... But they add a VAT charge on it so its 6 quid a month... and of that 6 quid a month I only get 4 quid
2020-09-14T16:03:30 < Mangy_Dog> thats a huge cute
2020-09-14T16:03:32 < Mangy_Dog> cut
2020-09-14T16:03:45 < Mangy_Dog> oh and it gets transfered through paypal
2020-09-14T16:03:55 < dongs> lmao wat
2020-09-14T16:03:58 < Mangy_Dog> and paypal then get a cut so i likely only get 3 quid of that 6 quid that a person pays in
2020-09-14T16:04:00 < dongs> so tehy allow you to siphon money out via gaypal
2020-09-14T16:04:04 < dongs> but they wont take payments through gaypal?
2020-09-14T16:04:05 < dongs> interesting
2020-09-14T16:04:11 < dongs> i wonder if they fucked something up and got banned
2020-09-14T16:04:20 < dongs> like allowed porn or wahtever shit thats against gaypal policy
2020-09-14T16:04:35 < Mangy_Dog> really no idea
2020-09-14T16:04:45 < Mangy_Dog> but paypal dont allow people paying for porn through it?
2020-09-14T16:04:56 < Mangy_Dog> i know of furry artists who sell art and take payments through paypal :o
2020-09-14T16:04:56 < dongs> as far as I know , no
2020-09-14T16:04:59 < dongs> Lol
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2020-09-14T16:06:34 < Laurenceb> sheeeet thanks nvidia
2020-09-14T16:06:40 < Laurenceb> now we all have to learn risc5
2020-09-14T16:06:48 < dongs> lmao
2020-09-14T16:07:21 < Laurenceb> wonder if there is one with decent peripherals yet
2020-09-14T16:07:33 < dongs> there's one with STM32 peripehrals, is that decent?
2020-09-14T16:08:04 < Laurenceb> which one?
2020-09-14T16:08:08 < Laurenceb> gigadevice?
2020-09-14T16:08:08 < zyp> gd32v
2020-09-14T16:08:11 < Laurenceb> oh cool
2020-09-14T16:08:30 < zyp> should fuck around with that some day
2020-09-14T16:08:31 < Laurenceb> heh an f103 clone
2020-09-14T16:08:39 < Laurenceb> the atmega168p of stm32
2020-09-14T16:08:40 < zyp> yeah, I picked up a board with one
2020-09-14T16:08:58 < Laurenceb> gets the jerb done for lots of applications I guess
2020-09-14T16:09:33 < zyp> I don't think I'll ever use gd32v for anything, but it's useful as a riscv reference target for laks
2020-09-14T16:10:04 < zyp> and I want riscv support in laks for fpga use
2020-09-14T16:10:06 < Laurenceb> >GigaDevice Semiconductor Inc. GD32VF103  wins in the category hardware with its new Bumblebee processor core based on the open source RISC-V instruction set architecture.
2020-09-14T16:10:15 < Laurenceb> lulwut its got ancient peripherals
2020-09-14T16:10:24 < dongs> wel yes, f103 ones
2020-09-14T16:11:19 < Laurenceb> looks like they are desperate to give awards to riscv
2020-09-14T16:11:48 < Laurenceb> at least f103 adc is pretty good, a bit slow but its very accurate
2020-09-14T16:12:24 < zyp> doesn't mean gd32's adc is just as good
2020-09-14T16:12:32 < zyp> isn't it a register compatible reimplementation?
2020-09-14T16:12:54 < Laurenceb> ah
2020-09-14T16:13:02 < Laurenceb> I thought they had managed ot clone the silicon
2020-09-14T16:13:45 < zyp> idk
2020-09-14T16:25:42 < dongs> lol. slackware doesnt support nvme boot.
2020-09-14T16:25:50 < dongs> fucking hell.
2020-09-14T16:27:17 < zyp> is slackware still a thing?
2020-09-14T16:33:31 < dongs> its like the last thing that doesnt have systemdick in it
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2020-09-14T16:37:00 < mawk> what wrong with a little dick once in a while
2020-09-14T16:42:27 < srk> even if it's still udev it should modprobe nvme, maybe you need to do that manually on boot
2020-09-14T16:42:30 < srk> :D
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2020-09-14T17:37:19 < bitmask> woo, new pcb dry film being delivered today, might actually be able to make a pcb today
2020-09-14T17:42:44 < karlp> yay, I have a mouse again.  and a wheel too
2020-09-14T17:47:49 < jpa-> yay, i have food today
2020-09-14T17:49:01 < mawk> are you fasting jpa- ?
2020-09-14T17:49:30 < jpa-> mawk: no, but have to be happy about something to not break the combo
2020-09-14T17:49:45 < karlp> well, mawk blew it at 3.
2020-09-14T17:49:52 < jpa-> yep
2020-09-14T17:50:28 < mawk> :(
2020-09-14T17:52:36 < bitmask> heh
2020-09-14T18:21:12 < karlp> fwiw, https://www.buymeacoffee.com/about only charges 5% fees...
2020-09-14T18:21:55 < mawk> "We believe almost everyone will work for themselves in the future" meh
2020-09-14T18:25:25 < jpa-> karlp: but what do they offer, compared to just paypal donate button?
2020-09-14T18:26:39 < jpa-> hmm, apparently it's actually cheaper, as the paypal 0.30 + 2.9% ends up as 9% for small amounts like $5
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2020-09-14T18:27:35 < mawk> are you a computer scientist or not jpa- ???
2020-09-14T18:27:39 < mawk> 0.3 is a constant so it's 0
2020-09-14T18:27:53 < mawk> so paypal is cheaper
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2020-09-14T18:28:28 < jpa-> if my amount paid grows to inf, i won't care about fees :)
2020-09-14T18:30:07 < mawk> yes
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2020-09-14T18:31:32 < mawk> PaulFertser: 
2020-09-14T18:47:54 < PaulFertser> mawk: hey
2020-09-14T18:48:08 < mawk> ah ! hi
2020-09-14T18:48:47 < mawk> fast_load/load_image don't work PaulFertser , but mwb yes
2020-09-14T18:49:03 < mawk> load_image doesn't produce any output
2020-09-14T18:49:16 < mawk> and fast_load can upload the loader and execute it, giving nice ouptut, but nothing happens
2020-09-14T18:49:19 < mawk> memory isn't modified
2020-09-14T18:49:53 < PaulFertser> mawk: you can check openocd -d3 output to compare doing manual mww and load_image
2020-09-14T18:50:10 < mawk> yes as soon as I get back home with my baby
2020-09-14T18:50:15 < mawk> baby = my board
2020-09-14T18:50:38 < mawk> but anyway mwb saved my day; otherwise I'd have to install windows
2020-09-14T18:50:53 < mawk> to use the "official" tool my company made to write to eeprom
2020-09-14T18:50:55 < mawk> which is some visualbasic shit
2020-09-14T18:52:28 < Cracki> if I announced this video with "RAPE RAPE RAPE", that would still be less sensationalist and misleading than what the "coalition for safe and secure data" did https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L6Oenifvrt8
2020-09-14T18:52:40 < PaulFertser> mawk: glad it worked even though in a suboptimal way. I guess it's not a problem for you to generate list of mwb commands from a binary.
2020-09-14T18:53:03 < mawk> yeah indeed it's not a problem
2020-09-14T18:53:51 < mawk> haha Cracki 
2020-09-14T18:53:53 < mawk> https://safeandsecuredata.org/
2020-09-14T18:54:00 < mawk> the lobbyists call their enemy "lobbyists"
2020-09-14T18:54:07 < mawk> Lobbyists funded by a national political group have proposed an effort in Massachusetts that will help strangers, hackers and criminals gain real-time, remote access to consumer vehicles and driving data – including vehicles operating on the road.
2020-09-14T18:54:14 < Cracki> they're always lying
2020-09-14T18:54:52 < Cracki> honesty doesn't exist outside of high trust societies founded on kinship
2020-09-14T18:54:56 < mawk> it's litteraly a smear campaign
2020-09-14T18:54:59 < mawk> this website
2020-09-14T18:55:02 < mawk> these fuckers
2020-09-14T18:55:30 < Cracki> the funding is telling. anti-R2R top5 funding is car companies
2020-09-14T18:55:34 < mawk> lol and you see at the bottom Cracki 
2020-09-14T18:56:13 < mawk> "paid for by the coalition for safe and secure data, top donors include GM, toyota, ford, honda, nissan, FCA, kia, hyundai, subaru, VWAudi, mazda, bmw, daimler, mitsubishi, Jaguar Land Rover, volvo"
2020-09-14T18:56:19 < mawk> they made it an image so you cannot copy-paste it easily
2020-09-14T18:56:27 < mawk> nor ctrl-f or get google index it
2020-09-14T18:56:29 < Cracki> greenshot + microsoft office OCR
2020-09-14T18:56:41 < mawk> or just me typing fast
2020-09-14T18:56:44 < Cracki> Paid for by the Coalition for Safe and Secure Data. Top donors include GM, Toyota, Ford, Honda, Nissan, FCA, Kia, Hyundai, Subaru, VW!Audi, Mazda, BMW, Daimler, Mitsubishi, Jaguar Land Rover, Volvo. For more information visit http://mass.gov/ocpf.
2020-09-14T18:56:52 < mawk> yeah
2020-09-14T18:57:01 < mawk> almost
2020-09-14T18:57:03 < mawk> it turned / into !
2020-09-14T18:57:05 < Cracki> ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
2020-09-14T18:57:38 < Cracki> back in the 2000s there was a program called "babylon translator" that had outstanding OCR of screen-rendered text... but it was coming out of Download Valley and that inevitably turns into malware
2020-09-14T18:58:47 < Cracki> they get so much funding because politicians are being bought to vote against it
2020-09-14T18:59:13 < Cracki> politicians outright want their grubby paws greased. dumb sheep just need a bit of FUD
2020-09-14T18:59:31 < Cracki> FUD is too soft a term. fearmongering propaganda, LIES
2020-09-14T19:02:10 < Cracki> I think I'm gonna try cooking decent rice again. today: wash it before cooking
2020-09-14T19:04:21 < englishman> mawk: will you buy an audi étron
2020-09-14T19:06:00 < mawk> lol
2020-09-14T19:06:02 < mawk> no thanks
2020-09-14T19:06:14 < mawk> of course Cracki 
2020-09-14T19:06:17 < mawk> need to get the starch out
2020-09-14T19:06:46 < Cracki> it's store brand rice in plastic bags. they say "just drown it in boiling water". I'm learning how to do it right.
2020-09-14T19:10:42 < zyp> get a decent rice cooker
2020-09-14T19:10:47 < zyp> set and forget, always decent results
2020-09-14T19:11:17 < Steffanx> But rice. I dont like rice
2020-09-14T19:11:42 < zyp> how can you not like rice, it's just a staple?
2020-09-14T19:13:14 < Steffanx> I dont like it. Ok maybe its ok with some scrambled egg and Krupuk
2020-09-14T19:13:14 < Steffanx> ;)
2020-09-14T19:14:11 < zyp> it's like saying «I don't like potatos»
2020-09-14T19:15:35 < zyp> which is not an unreasonable conclusion if you tried eating plain boiled potatos on its own
2020-09-14T19:15:52 < Cracki> tristate. "not like" doesn't have to imply hate. it can be indifference.
2020-09-14T19:16:04 < zyp> heh
2020-09-14T19:16:24 < Cracki> brussel sprouts. people hate them because people boil/steam them. I hear you're supposed to fry them.
2020-09-14T19:16:53 < Cracki> reminds me of a MASH episode. the padre has been slaving away at his corn crop for a year.
2020-09-14T19:17:27 < Cracki> eventually they're harvested. everyone's psyched to get corn on the cob. the cook just turns them into CREAMED CORN.
2020-09-14T19:17:41 < Cracki> he was not hanged for this
2020-09-14T19:19:19 < Cracki> https://www.imdb.com/title/tt0638243/characters/nm0160639
2020-09-14T19:20:01 < mawk> my gf loves kroepoek Steffanx 
2020-09-14T19:20:18 < Steffanx> Heh. Since you moved to dutchland?
2020-09-14T19:20:50 < zyp> krøpøk
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2020-09-14T19:21:06 < Steffanx> Anyway, i do eat it, rice. But im not a fan. 
2020-09-14T19:21:27 < zyp> what sort of rice do you eat?
2020-09-14T19:21:44 < Cracki> steam the corns rice war now
2020-09-14T19:22:56 < Steffanx> Brown and white mainly
2020-09-14T19:23:47 < zyp> isn't every sort of rice brown and/or white?
2020-09-14T19:23:59 < Steffanx> Rice pudding i do like though
2020-09-14T19:24:28 < Steffanx> Lol the package says "brown" or "White" lol
2020-09-14T19:24:31 < Steffanx> L
2020-09-14T19:24:33 < Steffanx> More lol
2020-09-14T19:24:47 < zyp> pic or link or something
2020-09-14T19:25:05 < Steffanx> It actually says "zilvervliesrijst" but google told me its brown rice
2020-09-14T19:26:21 < Steffanx> https://www.ah.nl/producten/product/wi948/ah-witte-snelkook-rijst
2020-09-14T19:26:58 < Steffanx> https://lassie.nl/storage/images/product/_productImage/Lassie-Zilvervliesrijst-400g.jpg
2020-09-14T19:27:21 < Steffanx> But im no rice expert. I never bothered 
2020-09-14T19:27:54 < Cracki> they have bags of pre-cooked rice (with some flavoring and shit) in my store too. you can eat it cold. or throw it in the microwave.
2020-09-14T19:28:33 < mawk> yes Steffanx 
2020-09-14T19:28:46 < mawk> zyp: always thai perfumed rice
2020-09-14T19:28:53 < mawk> well it's called "perfumed rice" but it's not perfumed
2020-09-14T19:29:07 < mawk> ø is a ew sound zyp ?
2020-09-14T19:30:42 < zyp> no
2020-09-14T19:30:48 < mawk> lame
2020-09-14T19:31:05 < mawk> I'm very disappointed
2020-09-14T19:31:11 < zyp> I don't know how you say oe in dutch, but it's a common substitution for the norwegian ø when not available
2020-09-14T19:31:19 < mawk> oe is ew
2020-09-14T19:31:21 < mawk> eww
2020-09-14T19:31:36 < mawk> which is ou in french
2020-09-14T19:31:39 < zyp> krewpewk
2020-09-14T19:31:42 < mawk> yeah
2020-09-14T19:31:57 < zyp> crew-puke
2020-09-14T19:32:18 < mawk> lol
2020-09-14T19:34:39 < zyp> ø sounds like the wovel in how the british says «bird»
2020-09-14T19:34:41 < Steffanx> Its nice. Now crew puke
2020-09-14T19:34:49 < zyp> «bød»
2020-09-14T19:37:07 < Steffanx> Oe is ew? What what mawk?
2020-09-14T19:37:19 < Steffanx> Oe is like the oo in book
2020-09-14T19:37:32 < Steffanx> Boek = book. Pretty much
2020-09-14T19:38:15 < mawk> yes Steffanx 
2020-09-14T19:38:18 < mawk> that's what I said
2020-09-14T19:38:27 < Steffanx> Ok
2020-09-14T19:38:40 < mawk> not really book, or like book but shorter sound then
2020-09-14T19:38:44 < mawk> so that's ew
2020-09-14T19:39:20 < Steffanx> I pronouce ew. As some sound you might make when somethingnis awful/non very tasty
2020-09-14T19:39:29 < Steffanx> Not*
2020-09-14T19:39:34 < mawk> yeah
2020-09-14T19:39:51 < mawk> ew is pronounced like eeewww
2020-09-14T19:39:55 < mawk> the oe is the second part
2020-09-14T19:39:57 < mawk> the www
2020-09-14T19:40:01 < mawk> do you get it zyp 
2020-09-14T19:40:57 < mawk> https://translate.google.fr/translate_tts?ie=UTF-8&q=ou&tl=fr&total=1&idx=0&textlen=2&tk=742430.891942&client=webapp&prev=input
2020-09-14T19:40:58 < mawk> this
2020-09-14T19:42:28 < Steffanx> Lol
2020-09-14T19:43:28 < mawk> I'm very serious Steffanx 
2020-09-14T19:43:45 < Steffanx> I bet.
2020-09-14T19:47:19 < Steffanx> Zyp already left the building, mawk ;)
2020-09-14T19:49:21 < Steffanx> Or he is recording how to cook rice properly 
2020-09-14T19:53:27 < mawk> :(
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2020-09-14T20:09:48 < englishman> instant pot > rice cooker
2020-09-14T20:09:55 < boddax> https://i.ibb.co/tDt2wxv/9341.jpg got this kind of tft ili9341 but has no SCL line qanted to connet to discovery bd there a way?
2020-09-14T20:15:59 < karlp> it's probabl rs?
2020-09-14T20:16:29 < karlp> I mean, you want the pin called "D/CX" and elimination on the pins you've got, and the pins in the datasheet, it's _probabyl rs?
2020-09-14T20:20:46 < bitmask> new dupont film works a lot better than that chinese stuff, just gotta fix my procedure: https://i.imgur.com/KnOKuot.png?1
2020-09-14T20:22:27 < Steffanx> Yes you do
2020-09-14T20:25:13 < karlp> so, more interestingly with arm, what / how much is in the "arm iot services" ?
2020-09-14T20:25:26 < karlp> is that all of mbed? is that pelion? where does that shit all go?
2020-09-14T20:29:05 < englishman> is there a value assigned to their IoT division?
2020-09-14T20:34:58 < antto> eye-oh-tea
2020-09-14T20:35:10 < antto> dee-eye-why
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2020-09-14T20:43:45 < boddax> yes d c x scl etc
2020-09-14T20:44:26 < boddax> better if i have wiring diagram
2020-09-14T20:45:42 < boddax> dutch walking-boss
2020-09-14T20:47:40 < boddax> dont know if coming from rs ..i have connected to the board but only the backlihjt working same of my room lamp useful
2020-09-14T20:48:44 < zyp> mawk, Steffanx, sounds like a norwegian u
2020-09-14T20:49:10 < boddax> smell stokfish ?
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2020-09-14T20:52:06 < machinehum> https://www.theverge.com/2020/9/13/21435507/nvidia-acquiring-arm-40-billion-chips-ai-deal
2020-09-14T20:58:15 < Steffanx> but its not done yet
2020-09-14T20:58:37 < machinehum> o
2020-09-14T20:58:42 < Steffanx> i remember nxp was "acquired" but not not actually acquired.
2020-09-14T20:59:45 < machinehum> Merged with Freescale?
2020-09-14T21:01:33 < boddax> really interesting lol
2020-09-14T21:05:36 < karlp> Steffanx: qca paid like $2b to back out of that failure too
2020-09-14T21:05:46 < Steffanx> No the qualcom story, machinehum
2020-09-14T21:05:53 < Steffanx> Yeah. 2 fucking billion.
2020-09-14T21:06:39 < Steffanx> Qualcomm *
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2020-09-14T21:14:44 < machinehum> "after failing to secure Chinese regulatory approval"
2020-09-14T21:14:50 < machinehum> wtf does China have to do with anything
2020-09-14T21:27:02 < Cracki> prev owner is chinese
2020-09-14T21:28:04 < Cracki> softbank
2020-09-14T21:28:24 < Cracki> some chinese billionaire who bought up trophies. looks like he's making big cash from this
2020-09-14T21:28:49 < karlp> japanese...
2020-09-14T21:29:37 < Cracki> machinehum, where's that quote from?
2020-09-14T21:30:26 < machinehum> https://www.reuters.com/article/us-nxp-semicondtrs-m-a-qualcomm/qualcomm-ends-44-billion-nxp-bid-after-failing-to-win-china-approval-idUSKBN1KF193
2020-09-14T21:30:32 < Cracki> ic
2020-09-14T21:30:59 < Cracki> is/was qualcomm chinese-owned? nxp? previous owner of nxp?
2020-09-14T21:31:12 < Cracki> didn't find that info in the article yet.
2020-09-14T21:31:31 < Cracki> just because us-china has trade wars seems unlikely to require china's approval otherwise
2020-09-14T21:32:11 < machinehum> I don't think so
2020-09-14T21:32:24 < Cracki> ah, they mention ZTE Corp
2020-09-14T21:32:27 < machinehum> I didn't read the whole thing
2020-09-14T21:32:38 < Cracki> same :P
2020-09-14T21:32:54 < Cracki> aha! Qualcomm needed approval from China because the country accounted for nearly two-thirds of its revenue last year.
2020-09-14T21:34:14 < machinehum> Got it
2020-09-14T21:34:29 < machinehum> Yeah Android is pretty Chinese
2020-09-14T21:36:20 < Steffanx> not anymore, since it was banned by yankeeland
2020-09-14T21:36:54 < emeb> meh yankeeland. quickly making ourselves irrelevant.
2020-09-14T21:37:18 < machinehum> Android was banned by US?
2020-09-14T21:37:22 < machinehum> What
2020-09-14T21:39:37 < Steffanx> maybe not
2020-09-14T21:40:18 < Steffanx> oh it was just huawei ofcourse
2020-09-14T21:47:36 < machinehum> Yup
2020-09-14T21:50:30 < machinehum> What ever happened to this stupid propeller hat microcontrollers
2020-09-14T21:50:42 < machinehum> Like what was the big idea there
2020-09-14T21:51:04 < machinehum> I think they made their own language
2020-09-14T21:51:08 < machinehum> What a stupid idea
2020-09-14T21:58:13 < Steffanx> Doesnt it make your machine hum?
2020-09-14T21:59:17 < Cracki> >On August 6, 2014, Parallax Inc., released all of the Propeller 1 P8X32A hardware and tools as open-source hardware and software under the GNU General Public License (GPL) 3.0. This included the Verilog code, top-level hardware description language (HDL) files, Spin interpreter, PropellerIDE and SimpleIDE programming tools and compilers.
2020-09-14T22:00:28 < machinehum> Wow
2020-09-14T22:00:38 < machinehum> K that's actually pretty cool props to them
2020-09-14T22:01:37 < englishman> lmao nice pun there
2020-09-14T22:01:45 < machinehum> https://partycity6.scene7.com/is/image/PartyCity/_pdp_sq_?$_1000x1000_$&$product=PartyCity/176170_01
2020-09-14T22:01:52 < machinehum> englishman: lol
2020-09-14T22:02:06 < Cracki> the move must have profited them in some way. I would question if they make money from the chip/design itself. releasing it would remove barriers, maybe commoditize the design.
2020-09-14T22:02:47 < machinehum> I've never heard of anyone using that part in any serious design
2020-09-14T22:03:08 < machinehum> The only person I've ever heard of using it is that Chinese mythbusters dude
2020-09-14T22:04:10 < Cracki> they claim >Commercial applications include flight controllers in unmanned aerial vehicles, 3D printing, point-of-sale systems, solar monitoring systems, environmental data collection, prop and exhibit animation, theatrical lighting and sound control, security systems, autonomous robotics, and medical devices. 
2020-09-14T22:04:56 < Cracki> medical devices and POS systems would be the most "serious" stuff
2020-09-14T22:06:12 < machinehum> I would put unmanned aerial vehicles in there
2020-09-14T22:06:27 < Cracki> that could mean 20 bucks china toy drones
2020-09-14T22:06:34 < machinehum> lol fuck
2020-09-14T22:06:38 < machinehum> Yeah okay
2020-09-14T22:06:57 < Cracki> UAV sounds like billions spent by the us military but it's probably not
2020-09-14T22:07:08 < Cracki> besides they'd shove a C for combat in there (UCAV)
2020-09-14T22:08:03 < Cracki> POS system could mean someone's petty cash candy sales. "medical devices" could mean an internet of shit dildo.
2020-09-14T22:08:15 < Cracki> where the extent of "medical" is the silicon coating.
2020-09-14T22:08:33 < Cracki> aaand the neighbors light up again
2020-09-14T22:08:51 < Cracki> I wish they'd do that earlier in the day when the landlord has a chance to notice the stench
2020-09-14T22:09:01 < machinehum> Was going to say medical device
2020-09-14T22:09:05 < machinehum> IOT butplug
2020-09-14T22:09:11 < Cracki> goes brrrr
2020-09-14T22:09:20 < Cracki> propeller buttplug
2020-09-14T22:09:25 < Cracki> UAV
2020-09-14T22:09:38 < machinehum> Two programming languages are available: Spin
2020-09-14T22:09:40 < machinehum> (a high-level object-based language) and Propeller Assembly
2020-09-14T22:09:41 < Cracki> that makes a ka-ching sound
2020-09-14T22:10:05 < machinehum> You have to learn our own personal stupid language
2020-09-14T22:10:22 < Cracki> https://learn.parallax.com/educators/teach/spin-programming-multicore-propeller
2020-09-14T22:10:26 < Steffanx> isnt there some open sores aternative?
2020-09-14T22:10:27 < Steffanx> alternative
2020-09-14T22:10:39 < machinehum> Because we just couldn't port GCC, too hard. Better if we just design out own fucking language
2020-09-14T22:10:55 < Cracki> I think it makes sense. they have some paradigms that would be easy to express as language/syntax
2020-09-14T22:11:17 < machinehum> It's a microcontroller with 8 cores
2020-09-14T22:11:22 < machinehum> That's not that special
2020-09-14T22:11:48 < Cracki> how does it work? any inter-core communication that isn't "write to registers/ram"?
2020-09-14T22:12:03 < Cracki> because that'd just mean library support.
2020-09-14T22:12:14 < MrMobius> 8 cores in DIP is special
2020-09-14T22:12:17 < machinehum> I don't know actually
2020-09-14T22:12:49 < machinehum> I'm making a lot of bitching for something that dosn't effect me, and I don't really understand
2020-09-14T22:12:57 < Steffanx> like a pro.
2020-09-14T22:13:15 < Steffanx> or are you just a pumper, mr machinehum?
2020-09-14T22:13:35 < machinehum> Yeah totally lets take this shit to the moon
2020-09-14T22:13:52 < machinehum> Calls on Parallax boys
2020-09-14T22:14:38 < Cracki> ah, the "hub" is for communication, not just scheduling
2020-09-14T22:15:02 < machinehum> Like
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2020-09-14T22:15:22 < machinehum> That's when there data/address busses get connected
2020-09-14T22:15:25 < machinehum> to
2020-09-14T22:15:47 < machinehum> The ram? or flash or whatever
2020-09-14T22:16:42 < MrMobius> I think each core gets to access the shared ram once every 8 cycles
2020-09-14T22:16:50 < MrMobius> hence the name "propeller"
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2020-09-14T22:16:56 < Cracki> eh, the extent of my sense of adventure is getting to know forth because it contains some interesting programming concepts, and because there's a possibility that I'll be able to integrate it into an existing stm32 code base
2020-09-14T22:17:13 < Cracki> sounds plausible
2020-09-14T22:17:29 < machinehum>  I just don't buy it
2020-09-14T22:17:48 < machinehum> It seems like someone was very creative, and good for them
2020-09-14T22:18:10 < Cracki> code reads a _little_ like vhdl/verilog in that if you want a counter, you write a counter
2020-09-14T22:18:32 < Cracki> with a propeller you don't have peripherals, you write peripherals
2020-09-14T22:18:32 < MrMobius> Cracki, I thought about that for debugging purposes but the two things I couldnt figure out were how to get Forth words you define saved so you keep them between uploading new C code and how to let Forth see variable values since some of them might only ever live in registers
2020-09-14T22:18:57 < machinehum> Cracki: Sigh
2020-09-14T22:19:04 < Cracki> I have no clue either. I'd not use it for debugging but for user extensibility. afaik "words" can be compiled to flash, or compiled to ram
2020-09-14T22:19:10 < MrMobius> the real test is if anyone ever made anything useful with a Propeller and the answer yes a lot
2020-09-14T22:19:35 < Cracki> I don't understand forth's data structures yet. there was mention of a linked list and/or tree (or both really) that stores words
2020-09-14T22:20:22 < machinehum> It's all great, until the supply sucks and stuck with a bunch of engineering that's impossible to port elsewhere
2020-09-14T22:20:29 < Cracki> in terms of keeping "data" around in flash between reflashing, edit your linker script. that's how "eeprom" emulation is done.
2020-09-14T22:20:29 < MrMobius> Cracki, compiling to flash will be a pain. a guy in #forth was working on an m4 forth and it sounded annoying
2020-09-14T22:20:48 < Cracki> define a section for this purpose, reduce the size of general flash the linker gets to use
2020-09-14T22:21:08 < MrMobius> Cracki, ya good for one off but no way you could provide a Forth module to plunk down in any random stm32 project and have it just work
2020-09-14T22:21:11 < Cracki> mecrisp forth https://jeelabs.org/article/1705b/
2020-09-14T22:21:13 < machinehum> What are you doing with Forth?
2020-09-14T22:21:24 < Cracki> saw an ST community post from 2015 where they advertised
2020-09-14T22:21:29 < Cracki> me, nothing
2020-09-14T22:21:57 < Cracki> I'd definitely need it to be a module inside an existing c/c++ project
2020-09-14T22:22:13 < MrMobius> Cracki, Forth is mean to run from RAM. there is no tree. its usually a singlly linked list where you lay down "words" in order
2020-09-14T22:22:14 < Cracki> I'm not proficient enough to port all that to forth
2020-09-14T22:22:28 < Cracki> yes yes threaded code or something
2020-09-14T22:22:33 < MrMobius> and since the word could be code or data, you cant really put it in flash
2020-09-14T22:22:37 < Cracki> but there are data structures besides code
2020-09-14T22:22:43 < Cracki> why tho
2020-09-14T22:22:57 < Cracki> I don't see an explanation for your assertion
2020-09-14T22:23:31 < MrMobius> because the way forth is usually set up is a word is a word and you putting data or code in it is secondary
2020-09-14T22:24:02 < MrMobius> which works if code and data are all stored in RAM but that doesnt work if its all in flash, so you have to create a second list or devise some other scheme if you want variables in ram and code in flash
2020-09-14T22:24:17 < MrMobius> not impossible but complicates things
2020-09-14T22:24:19 < Cracki> people obviously managed ("mecrisp")
2020-09-14T22:24:39 < MrMobius> iirc mecrisp runs from RAM
2020-09-14T22:24:42 < MrMobius> actually no nvm
2020-09-14T22:24:43 < Cracki> I think you have some requirement they don't
2020-09-14T22:24:57 < Cracki> there's no reason to _have to_ have code in flash only
2020-09-14T22:25:08 < MrMobius> I dont have any requirements. im talking about most forths that have existed. this is a classic problem a lot of projects face
2020-09-14T22:25:49 < Cracki> so far I'm not even sure forth has "variables". it has stacks, and it has memory locations you can peek and poke (@ and !), and it has a "variable" word that assigns this pointer to a word
2020-09-14T22:26:16 < Cracki> and that's my assessment from reading half the wikpedia page in a daze last night
2020-09-14T22:26:16 < MrMobius> Cracki, no offense but maybe you should go and learn the basics then
2020-09-14T22:26:33 < Cracki> orly that's what I've been saying since this discussion began, you aren't telling me anything new
2020-09-14T22:27:04 < Cracki> what you said sounded like you're not far behind
2020-09-14T22:27:05 < MrMobius> thats why I said words are words and they can be data or code. thats what I meant. a word that holds data is a variable
2020-09-14T22:27:19 < MrMobius> Cracki, probably better to move your trolling to #forth
2020-09-14T22:27:30 < Cracki> and if you had read my line to the end, you'd see that I have discovered this "variable" mechanism
2020-09-14T22:27:34 < Cracki> lol
2020-09-14T22:28:21 < Cracki> i didn't troll. your accusation makes you the troll. so there! *sticks out tongue*
2020-09-14T22:29:42 < catphish> inevitable catphish cock-up number 1... grounding mishap resulted in my spark return path being via my stm32
2020-09-14T22:29:50 < marble_visions> all, what's the channel's consensus about the stm32mp1's? anyone tried them?
2020-09-14T22:30:58 < marble_visions> am i going to regret asking? :D
2020-09-14T22:32:03 < catphish> i'm building an engine management system, i'm building it very crudely :) my electronics isn't isolated from my high voltage, small mishap = kilovolts into an input pin
2020-09-14T22:32:52 < catphish> specifically, engine block wasn't grounded, spark jumped into one of my low voltage lines, poof
2020-09-14T22:33:50  * marble_visions hopes catphish has a steady supply of stm32 devkits during the prototyping
2020-09-14T22:33:57 < catphish> lol
2020-09-14T22:34:20 < catphish> amazingly the rest of the stm32 still works, just just one input pin
2020-09-14T22:34:29 < catphish> *just lost
2020-09-14T22:35:11 < marble_visions> so the pin doubles as a fuse :D
2020-09-14T22:35:34 < machinehum> marble_visions: I have not tried it
2020-09-14T22:35:41 < machinehum> But I want to know if it's shit or not
2020-09-14T22:36:09 < catphish> try one :)
2020-09-14T22:36:26 < catphish> i've not come across a use case for one yet
2020-09-14T22:37:39 < marble_visions> machinehum: catphish: same
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2020-09-14T22:38:38 < machinehum> catphish: Use case = Any design you have seen with a cortex-a chip running linux, with a cortex-m coprocessor 
2020-09-14T22:38:46 < machinehum> It's common
2020-09-14T22:39:05 < machinehum> Buy no one has nailed the copackaged thing yet
2020-09-14T22:39:08 < machinehum> for whatever reason=
2020-09-14T22:39:49 < marble_visions> the imx8 series from nxp is okay
2020-09-14T22:40:43 < marble_visions> they do leave out some parts of the chip undocumented... like the XRDC controller that manages bus access
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2020-09-14T22:41:03 < marble_visions> and i am wondering how st have done in their soc
2020-09-14T22:41:11 < marble_visions> i might read up on it
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2020-09-14T22:42:34 < machinehum> Does the imx8 have a coprocessor?
2020-09-14T22:42:50 < machinehum> like a real time whatever running bonnerRTOS or whatever?
2020-09-14T22:42:56 < marble_visions> yes
2020-09-14T22:42:59 < machinehum> Oh
2020-09-14T22:43:09 < machinehum> Did they ditch that cancer Yocto shit?
2020-09-14T22:43:15 < marble_visions> no
2020-09-14T22:43:18 < machinehum> Fuck
2020-09-14T22:43:32 < machinehum> That project gives me diarrhea
2020-09-14T22:44:00 < marble_visions> i think that's the best they can do
2020-09-14T22:44:07 < marble_visions> maybe dip into buildroot
2020-09-14T22:44:07 < machinehum> NO
2020-09-14T22:44:14 < machinehum> builtroot is less shit
2020-09-14T22:44:23 < machinehum> The best they can do it what RPI does
2020-09-14T22:44:35 < machinehum> Take Debian, rip out all the shit you don't need an provide and image
2020-09-14T22:44:53 < machinehum> don't fucking shitbake all of Linux and whatever else you want to put in
2020-09-14T22:45:33 < machinehum> The reason Yocto is real, is because multiarch, which no one cares about anymore
2020-09-14T22:45:43 < machinehum> Arm is the only arch you're going to use
2020-09-14T22:46:09 < marble_visions> depends on the use case, some people need or want that extra tuning capability
2020-09-14T22:46:15 < marble_visions> i don't know how it's done with debian
2020-09-14T22:46:55 < marble_visions> also, does systemd provide an alternative to systemd?
2020-09-14T22:47:02 < marble_visions> ugh
2020-09-14T22:47:16 < marble_visions> does debian* provide an alternative to systemd
2020-09-14T22:49:10 < machinehum> lol
2020-09-14T22:49:21 < GenTooMan> best to ask that in #debian
2020-09-14T22:49:21 < machinehum> Yeah just use runit or whatever
2020-09-14T22:49:50 < machinehum> systemd is such a hot topic that's fragmented the shit outta the linux community
2020-09-14T22:50:06 < machinehum> So pretty much ever os has a fork that doesn't use systemd 
2020-09-14T22:51:15 < steve_> anyone know where I can get a startupcode.c for STM32F4 ?
2020-09-14T22:52:43 < machinehum> marble_visions: https://devuan.org/ 
2020-09-14T22:52:45 < machinehum> boom
2020-09-14T22:53:02 < machinehum> "Init Freedom is about restoring a sane approach to PID1 that respects portability, diversity and freedom of choice."
2020-09-14T22:54:13 < marble_visions> wow
2020-09-14T22:54:22 < karlp> systemd's deployment by force was insensitive, but the product is still better than the fucking shit pile of sysv init it replaced
2020-09-14T22:54:45 < machinehum> I honestly don't have a hot take on it
2020-09-14T22:57:11 < marble_visions> me neither, i don't do that advanced startups to care... iirc systemd had implemented the rm command wrong, and a few people got their / butchered
2020-09-14T22:57:39 < Cracki> lol
2020-09-14T22:57:58 < marble_visions> among other controversies
2020-09-14T22:58:03 < machinehum> People hate it for more reasons than that
2020-09-14T22:58:05 < machinehum> Yeah
2020-09-14T22:58:25 < Cracki> https://www.preining.info/blog/2017/04/systemd-again/
2020-09-14T22:58:26 < Cracki> hahahahahahaa
2020-09-14T23:00:48 < Cracki> >I am not sure I'd consider this much of a problem.
2020-09-14T23:00:56 < marble_visions> in projects with tight boot requirements, i've had suspicions that at some point systemd would have to go in favor of something simpler
2020-09-14T23:01:01 < machinehum> That's fucking funny
2020-09-14T23:01:23 < marble_visions> but i didn't stick around to quantify
2020-09-14T23:02:04 < marble_visions> machinehum: any similar experiences?
2020-09-14T23:02:33 < machinehum> I mean stystemd is faster
2020-09-14T23:02:59 < machinehum> The mean reason people hate it because it's monolithic, and lots of redundant stuff rolled into it
2020-09-14T23:03:01 < machinehum> mean
2020-09-14T23:03:04 < machinehum> main*
2020-09-14T23:03:32 < Cracki> that's superficial. if you dig you'll find plenty of substance to criticize.
2020-09-14T23:03:59 < Cracki> random list of bugs https://nosystemd.org/
2020-09-14T23:04:23 < machinehum> "nosystemd.org"
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2020-09-14T23:04:41 < marble_visions> i can't make an argument against a piece of software on the basis that it has bugs
2020-09-14T23:04:56 < machinehum> Well
2020-09-14T23:05:07 < Cracki> "other software also has bugs" sure but they don't say "I am not sure I'd consider this much of a problem." when they're caught
2020-09-14T23:05:20 < marble_visions> Cracki: oh definitely
2020-09-14T23:05:23 < Cracki> _some_ other software also is constructed _somewhat_ more carefully
2020-09-14T23:05:35 < Cracki> and you are allowed to criticize this.
2020-09-14T23:05:44 < Cracki> you aren't obligated to critize every software that has bugs.
2020-09-14T23:06:25 < Cracki> choice quote from that preining.info site: "I conclude that there are two ways of constructing a software design: One way is to make it so simple that there are obviously no deficiencies and the other way is to make it so complicated that there are no obvious deficiencies. Antony Hoare, Turing Award Lecture 1980"
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2020-09-14T23:07:09 < marble_visions> agree with that, and it circles back to the argument about it being one big monolith
2020-09-14T23:07:13 < Cracki> it's also valid to criticize the arrogance they're displaying
2020-09-14T23:08:05 < Cracki> your personal position doesn't invalidate others' positions
2020-09-14T23:08:39 < Cracki> the positions stand. the arguments stand. you're certainly free to dismiss arguments. that says nothing about the arguments.
2020-09-14T23:09:03 < Cracki> poettering is good at dismissing criticism
2020-09-14T23:11:59 < marble_visions> haven't read that much into it, but what's more puzzling for me is that it just spread everywhere
2020-09-14T23:12:07 < Cracki> it didn't "just spread"
2020-09-14T23:12:20 < marble_visions> who forced it?
2020-09-14T23:12:28 < Cracki> the poettering himself
2020-09-14T23:12:46 < Cracki> I have nothing prepared so I won't go into it
2020-09-14T23:12:59 < marble_visions> fine, but usually they get backed up by some entity
2020-09-14T23:13:06 < Cracki> redhat?
2020-09-14T23:13:10 < marble_visions> is/was he a redhat employee
2020-09-14T23:13:13 < marble_visions> ah yes
2020-09-14T23:13:27 < Cracki> not that that would count for anything with open source people
2020-09-14T23:13:54 < Cracki> you don't have to be in a position to command someone, or break their arm, to pressure them into something
2020-09-14T23:14:13 < Cracki> if you could force someone, you wouldn't need manipulation 
2020-09-14T23:14:48 < Cracki> one could call it salesmanship
2020-09-14T23:15:11 < Cracki> some have had buyer's remorse
2020-09-14T23:15:21 < Cracki> look up which distros switched from systemd to something else
2020-09-14T23:15:45 < Cracki> I don't remember which it was but I remember there was one at least
2020-09-14T23:17:09 < Cracki> openrc and runit show up as popular alternatives
2020-09-14T23:17:16 < aandrew> I still don't understand how systemd wsas able to become so pervasive so fast
2020-09-14T23:17:41 < Cracki> it's an ideology. if you criticize it, your criticism is taken to attack the lofty ideology, not the flawed implementation
2020-09-14T23:17:44 < aandrew> it's like all the distributions which usually war with each other collectively said "yep systemd is awesome" and rammed it into their distros
2020-09-14T23:18:02 < Cracki> you'd have to talk to core devs of various distributions... they may be telling, or they may not
2020-09-14T23:18:39 < Cracki> I don't have those insights. maybe some of the systemd resistance have them. I could speculate that *public opinion* was "shifted"
2020-09-14T23:19:11 < Cracki> all you'd have to do is badmouth sysv, which is easy since it's so old, and then promise an utopia of smart intelligent things
2020-09-14T23:19:57 < Cracki> pick some demonstrations of the awesome power of your product. nobody ever looks under the hood anyway.
2020-09-14T23:20:24 < Cracki> so if lots of people hear of this new toy, they'll want it, and they'll vote for it, because they want the new toy... but they won't care to look into it.
2020-09-14T23:20:29 < Cracki> it's politics.
2020-09-14T23:20:53 < marble_visions> my battery is dying, catch you later
2020-09-14T23:24:47 < Cracki> people were complaining about pulseaudio before systemd showed up (and avahi too). for some reason they were too woke to associate those things with the person, and the person with systemd.
2020-09-14T23:25:30 < machinehum> Harry Poettering made pulseaudio as well?
2020-09-14T23:25:35 < Cracki> yes
2020-09-14T23:25:48 < Cracki> you can imagine this as a pin wall with newspaper clippings and red string
2020-09-14T23:26:05 < Cracki> it's a conspiracy theory. it's true tho.
2020-09-14T23:27:15 < Cracki> it's not about harming anyone, so no evil laughs. I think it's about status, about power, about having the (shit) software you wrote in everyone's system. it's very likely about ego, hubris, overestimation of one's own abilities.
2020-09-14T23:27:46 < Cracki> it's a good idea to keep other related names in mind too.
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2020-09-14T23:29:08 < Cracki> >Despite being developed by two of its employees, Red Hat's Fedora Project does not use gummiboot for booting UEFI systems; instead, it will use efilinux to chainload GRUB
2020-09-14T23:29:35 < machinehum> Oh yeah systemd.boot
2020-09-14T23:29:40 < machinehum> That's a bonehead idea
2020-09-14T23:29:58 < Cracki> it's branding.
2020-09-14T23:30:11 < Cracki> branding plus tight coupling
2020-09-14T23:30:15 < machinehum> hmm
2020-09-14T23:30:59 < Cracki> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Systemd_components.svg
2020-09-14T23:31:04 < machinehum> Why didn't these distros just fork systemd, rip out all the useless shit?
2020-09-14T23:31:09 < Cracki> they tried
2020-09-14T23:31:12 < Cracki> it kept growing
2020-09-14T23:31:20 < Cracki> you can't rip it apart, it's all tightly coupled
2020-09-14T23:31:34 < machinehum> Oh, so it's not built properly
2020-09-14T23:31:37 < Cracki> I heard of efforts to extract dbus from systemd....
2020-09-14T23:31:44 < Cracki> oh it's built "properly". this is intentional.
2020-09-14T23:31:56 < Cracki> at this point, they've heard the arguments. they just ignore them and keep going.
2020-09-14T23:32:14 < machinehum> The fire inside me is growing
2020-09-14T23:32:47 < Cracki> opposite of hanlon's razor, never attribute to stupidity that which is adequately explained by malice
2020-09-14T23:33:01 < Cracki> systemd's first release was in 2010.
2020-09-14T23:33:24 < Cracki> they were actively "evangelizing", converting the natives
2020-09-14T23:35:19 < Cracki> ... or rather, the consequence of hanlon's razor. stupidity can be ruled out.
2020-09-14T23:36:04 < aandrew> ahh, it looks like it was Gnome's fault
2020-09-14T23:36:08 < aandrew> "Let’s also not forget that systemd uptake was LARGELY restricted to Fedora up until the point that the Gnome team decided that logind would be a future requirement."
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2020-09-14T23:36:37 < Cracki> who runs gnome
2020-09-14T23:36:40 < aandrew> dbus was around long before systemd
2020-09-14T23:36:43 < aandrew> Cracki: ubuntu
2020-09-14T23:36:45 < Cracki> ic
2020-09-14T23:36:55 < machinehum> And debian
2020-09-14T23:37:09 < Cracki> so he convinced gnome that logind is a good thing... which caused everything else to be pulled in
2020-09-14T23:37:43 < machinehum> Wanted the apples but got the produce section
2020-09-14T23:37:45 < aandrew> heh 
2020-09-14T23:37:46 < aandrew> "I can’t say much here except that my experience with previous projects from Poettering (pusleaudio and avahi) give me very little faith in systemd."
2020-09-14T23:38:14 < Cracki> it's an effort to deprogram people and show them what's going on
2020-09-14T23:39:05 < Cracki> I think he could solidify his position if he staged a physical attack on his person
2020-09-14T23:40:22 < aandrew> didn't some actor guy do that? fake being attacked by racists to garner sympathy
2020-09-14T23:40:30 < Cracki> multiple did that
2020-09-14T23:40:37 < Cracki> hoaxes, hoaxes everywhere
2020-09-14T23:41:03 < machinehum> You guys heard of the suckless software idea? no config files, just patches and editing the .h files?
2020-09-14T23:41:14 < Cracki> not sure that convinces me
2020-09-14T23:41:25 < machinehum> https://suckless.org/
2020-09-14T23:41:29 < Cracki> might make no difference on a gentoo :>
2020-09-14T23:41:52 < Cracki> gnome has a minimalist philosophy too
2020-09-14T23:41:58 < Ultrasauce> re: yocto alternatives, check out openembedded
2020-09-14T23:41:59 < Cracki> it led them towards logind
2020-09-14T23:42:06 < aandrew> "When the creator of systemd says that we should ignore POSIX compatability and systemd itself relies on Linux-only features like cgroups there’s really little hope left. GNOME requiring logind means realistically that GNOME will only ever run on Linux. "
2020-09-14T23:42:20 < aandrew> machinehum: sounds like qmail
2020-09-14T23:42:39 < machinehum> Ultrasauce: openembedded just inside yocto?
2020-09-14T23:42:44 < machinehum> isn't*
2020-09-14T23:43:01 < machinehum> Yeah... "adopted as the build system for the Yocto Project in March 2011."
2020-09-14T23:43:11 < Ultrasauce> yeah you can use it without yocto tho
2020-09-14T23:43:21 < machinehum> Does it use shitbake?
2020-09-14T23:43:28 < aandrew> OE was a steaming pile of shit when I was using it
2020-09-14T23:43:32 < machinehum> lol ^
2020-09-14T23:43:39 < aandrew> I'd take buildroot any day over that
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2020-09-14T23:44:06 < machinehum> I used buildroot once it was _better_ than yocto
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2020-09-14T23:47:01 < machinehum> Anywho, this suckless thing. I have a vision of a consumer facing product that uses a small micro (think pebble watch) and a site which will allow you to "install apps" in the firmware. On the back end it's just executing the patch command and shoving extra firmware in a low-priority task on an RTOS
2020-09-14T23:47:20 < machinehum> Which a high-priority would be a "kernel", managing the realtime stuff
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2020-09-14T23:49:23 < Cracki> why would you structure "apps" as "patches". have a file system or something, put executables there, run them as tasks/processes. I don't consider that "patching"
2020-09-14T23:49:40 < machinehum> Nah because it wouldn't have a FS
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2020-09-14T23:50:01 < Cracki> why tho, you have flash memory. a little housekeeping wouldn't be an issue.
2020-09-14T23:50:18 < machinehum> I think it would be
2020-09-14T23:50:38 < machinehum> Because how do you tell freertos to just take a blob and make it an x-priority task?
2020-09-14T23:50:47 < Cracki> what would you handle code insertions, rewrite half the flash?
2020-09-14T23:51:03 < machinehum> Rewrite the entire flash
2020-09-14T23:51:09 < Cracki> that's beyond the scope of freertos. you do that with your own code, and then call freertos apis
2020-09-14T23:51:27 < Cracki> tasks are just an freertos api call
2020-09-14T23:51:36 < Cracki> and you pass a function pointer
2020-09-14T23:51:38 < Ultrasauce> feature phones but pretend it's 1950
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2020-09-14T23:52:33 < machinehum> This would not be something the size of a phone
2020-09-14T23:52:47 < Cracki> but it can talk to the internet
2020-09-14T23:52:59 < Cracki> and have some kind of graphical display
2020-09-14T23:53:13 < machinehum> Maybe, it's not a strict product yet, just an idea
2020-09-14T23:53:17 < Cracki> and likely you'd be able to speak into it
2020-09-14T23:53:45 < Cracki> maybe it's a starfleet comm badge
2020-09-14T23:54:19 < Cracki> those don't have a display tho and never showed any extensible or independent capabilities
2020-09-14T23:54:42 < machinehum> Sure, the point is encouraging 3rd part development on something that runs an RTOS
2020-09-14T23:54:51 < machinehum> party*
2020-09-14T23:55:05 < Cracki> this reminds me of those china "mp4 player" oscilloscopes. they have a few megs of flash and support "apps"
2020-09-14T23:55:29 < machinehum> Yeah exactly!
2020-09-14T23:55:43 < machinehum> Could last a couple weeks on a button cell
2020-09-14T23:56:01 < Cracki> that's not patching tho. you hand it the binaries, and they're structured in some way so the host system can run them
2020-09-14T23:56:34 < Cracki> even high school graphing calcs support apps... which are blobs in a file system.
2020-09-14T23:57:30 < Cracki> unless we're talking about those fancy multi color display computer algebra system thingies, they don't act like running an RTOS or anything even cooperative either
2020-09-14T23:57:30 < machinehum> So my question is, the RTOS is going to have a "kernel" task which has some variables with numbers, temp data, screen brightness etc... to be able to grab those from the app task they would need to be in a known location in memory
2020-09-14T23:57:46 < machinehum> So you have to build a schema
2020-09-14T23:57:50 < Cracki> you hand cpu control over to the app completely, and hope it returns or the user resets the device
2020-09-14T23:58:16 < aandrew> hahahahaha
2020-09-14T23:58:21 < Cracki> no
2020-09-14T23:58:23 < aandrew> "I departed Windows for Linux many years ago, and don't enjoy the direction the culture is taking. I've recently abandoned ship to FreeBSD (on laptops, even) and I'm thoroughly enjoying the change. It feels like Linux used to feel, back in the day."  "how, clunky?"
2020-09-14T23:58:31 < Cracki> you define an api, a set of syscalls
2020-09-14T23:59:06 < Cracki> not sure about freebsd. they have a code of cocks.
2020-09-14T23:59:07 < machinehum> aandrew: lol
2020-09-14T23:59:24 < specing> lmao
2020-09-14T23:59:33 < machinehum> They were doing some interesting things with security
2020-09-14T23:59:41 < aandrew> funny you used Pebble as an example. I worked on the very first hw prototypes for it, back when it was the Allerta InPulse
2020-09-14T23:59:49 < machinehum> Protecting resources, if an attacker gets sudo
2020-09-14T23:59:57 < machinehum> aandrew: really
2020-09-14T23:59:59 < Cracki> alerta alerta, throwing mollies
--- Day changed Tue Sep 15 2020
2020-09-15T00:00:05 < machinehum> That's cool
2020-09-15T00:00:35 < machinehum> Pebble is interesting because it used a little MCU, not an android whatever all other smart watches are using these days
2020-09-15T00:00:37 < machinehum> I think anyways
2020-09-15T00:00:42 < aandrew> if you really want to get down to brass tacks, all apps are just binary blobs in a filesystem or flashs
2020-09-15T00:01:05 < aandrew> they could have done way better than what they did with Pebble, I think they went itno full out chasing money mode
2020-09-15T00:01:15 < Cracki> >CPU	STM32F205RE Cortex M3 CPU
2020-09-15T00:01:18 < aandrew> but they did provide some nice CortexM patches to qemu
2020-09-15T00:01:25 < machinehum> aandrew: oh, you mean every startup ever?
2020-09-15T00:01:37 < machinehum> That has raised*
2020-09-15T00:01:42 < aandrew> machinehum: no, they were doing okay before he went to YCombinator and drank deep from the kool-aid
2020-09-15T00:02:22 < machinehum> soylint-aid*
2020-09-15T00:02:24 < Cracki> >The watch's firmware operating system is based on a FreeRTOS kernel and uses Newlib, the STM32 Peripheral Lib, the Ragel state machine compiler, and an unnamed UTF-8 Decoder.[45]
2020-09-15T00:02:45 < machinehum> Cracki: Are you talking about Pebble?
2020-09-15T00:02:54 < Cracki> I'm quoting wikipedia
2020-09-15T00:03:05 < machinehum> Okay, that's cool
2020-09-15T00:03:52 < machinehum> Yeah I guess you could just drop blobs in a flash... sounds like there's a way to make that work in an rtos enviornment
2020-09-15T00:04:13 < machinehum> I guess that's what pebble did
2020-09-15T00:04:45 < aandrew> how is that anyh different from a filesystem, just look for magic values at sector boundaries
2020-09-15T00:05:39 < machinehum> Yeah I guess it's a peasant filesystem
2020-09-15T00:05:45 < Ultrasauce> next you can reinvent the linker
2020-09-15T00:06:13 < Cracki> "make that work", you figure out what address to jump to, and you hand that to the freertos api that creates a task. and make sure the code at that location obeys all the calling conventions
2020-09-15T00:06:13 < machinehum> Nah, off to work on peasantFS.d
2020-09-15T00:06:32 < Cracki> and it should play nice with the rest of the code in terms of stack and heap and etc
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2020-09-15T00:06:57 < aandrew> yeah you can make it work, but you're inventing an API and OS. 
2020-09-15T00:07:01 < Cracki> :D
2020-09-15T00:07:06 < Laurenceb> paid £5 to watch Cuties, and all I got was a hardon
2020-09-15T00:07:20 < Cracki> did you get the t-shirt too
2020-09-15T00:07:27 < Laurenceb> lol
2020-09-15T00:07:56 < Cracki> there's a tshirt design floating around twadder. the designer has the obvious attributes.
2020-09-15T00:08:02 < qyx> Laurenceb: pls
2020-09-15T00:08:10 < qyx> I have a legit question for you
2020-09-15T00:08:22 < qyx> wheres your accel test data/output?
2020-09-15T00:08:40 < Laurenceb> test data?
2020-09-15T00:08:43 < Laurenceb> from what?
2020-09-15T00:08:57 < qyx> you did some accel comparison in the past, didn't you?
2020-09-15T00:09:06 < qyx> and made a pdf with nice graphs
2020-09-15T00:09:07 < Laurenceb> oh maybe...
2020-09-15T00:09:12 < Cracki> I posted some old paste links to your methlab code
2020-09-15T00:09:24 < Laurenceb> yeah its not on this pc
2020-09-15T00:09:27 < Cracki> :D
2020-09-15T00:10:04 < qyx> "its not on this pc" is a pre-git era quote
2020-09-15T00:10:19 < Cracki> Laurenceb, https://twitter.com/dannyjokes/status/1304893829301108738
2020-09-15T00:12:16 < Laurenceb> https://imgur.com/fqCOMB5
2020-09-15T00:13:02 < Cracki> where does that resonance come from
2020-09-15T00:13:12 < Laurenceb> thats from babbyshake accel... whatever it was
2020-09-15T00:13:17 < Laurenceb> from my pc cooling fan
2020-09-15T00:13:24 < Cracki> srsly
2020-09-15T00:13:26 < Laurenceb> yes
2020-09-15T00:13:58 < Laurenceb> I used a padded box for later tests, thats some old data I found on this machine
2020-09-15T00:14:12 < zyp> qyx, how's your rocks?
2020-09-15T00:14:15 < Laurenceb> it matches st datasheet spec pretty closely
2020-09-15T00:14:47 < zyp> I picked up some toys: https://bin.jvnv.net/file/3cmvT.jpg
2020-09-15T00:15:17 < qyx> such luft.
2020-09-15T00:15:23 < qyx> moar luft.
2020-09-15T00:15:29 < Laurenceb> looks like kit for oil drilling
2020-09-15T00:15:39 < qyx> isn't it a compressor?
2020-09-15T00:16:14 < Cracki> must be compressor
2020-09-15T00:17:12 < qyx> will you blow away the rocks?
2020-09-15T00:17:29 < qyx> or is there a pneumatic hammer hidden somewhere,
2020-09-15T00:17:46 < Cracki> looks similar to https://www.induscosolution.com/product-eng-1783-Compressor-Atlas-Copco-XAS-58-Kd-and-ECONOMIC-blasting-package-100L.html
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2020-09-15T00:19:23 < Cracki> rented I'm betting :>
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2020-09-15T00:20:46 < aandrew> +	BUG_ON(!strcmp(current->comm, "systemd"));
2020-09-15T00:20:48 < aandrew> hahahaha
2020-09-15T00:21:17 < Cracki> https://lore.kernel.org/lkml/20140402120440.1644d6a6486c554a33e584bc@linux-foundation.org/
2020-09-15T00:22:34 < Cracki> that BUG_ON is joking retaliation for hard headedness
2020-09-15T00:24:13 < Cracki> so because systemd does something retarded, the kernel has to implement a fix to keep systemd from doing something retarded
2020-09-15T00:24:47 < machinehum> That's unreal
2020-09-15T00:24:58 < Cracki> if there's _one_ thing to be learned from microsoft windows, it's that it contains TONS of shims to work around third party software doing naughty things and keeping it working regardless
2020-09-15T00:25:34 < Cracki> and the kernel implemented such a shim right there, to keep it all working despite systemd developers' arrogance
2020-09-15T00:25:52 < Cracki> this fucking shit is why people hate systemd and the people that make it
2020-09-15T00:26:00 < zyp> Cracki, yes, rented, it's a XAS 68
2020-09-15T00:26:01 < Cracki> and this fucking shit is why people defending systemd are idiots
2020-09-15T00:26:15 < Cracki> rock drill goes brrr
2020-09-15T00:26:18 < zyp> came with two pneumatic hammers
2020-09-15T00:26:43 < Cracki> schedule no fine motoric tasks for your hands right after hammer time :D
2020-09-15T00:26:53 < zyp> :p
2020-09-15T00:27:11 < zyp> I've already had a pain in my wrist for a week or two, so that's gonna be fun :p
2020-09-15T00:27:36 < Cracki> strayan rock blasting dude swings a leg on one half of the handle of his drill
2020-09-15T00:27:38 < machinehum> zyp: from typing?
2020-09-15T00:27:50 < Cracki> hammers should jump more than drills tho
2020-09-15T00:27:54 < machinehum> Or using... a hammer drill?
2020-09-15T00:28:12 < zyp> probably from lifting something at a weird angle or something
2020-09-15T00:28:17 < zyp> idk
2020-09-15T00:28:22 < Cracki> ask neighbor kids if they wanna have a try :D
2020-09-15T00:28:47 < zyp> haha
2020-09-15T00:28:49 < Cracki> admission fee covers equipment rent
2020-09-15T00:29:18 < zyp> I think most kids in the area are too small
2020-09-15T00:29:47 < zyp> might be just observation bias because all the older kids are sitting indoors all the time
2020-09-15T00:29:49 < Cracki> i've heard of construction equipment rental places that open on weekends for big boys to just drive around and dig through a big sand pit
2020-09-15T00:29:50 < zyp> idk
2020-09-15T00:30:04 < zyp> haha
2020-09-15T00:30:10 < Cracki> staring at their black rectangle, consuming media
2020-09-15T00:30:10 < zyp> I bet
2020-09-15T00:30:35 < zyp> I mean, I figure this shit is gonna be fun, at least for the first couple of holes, and then it's gonna get tedious
2020-09-15T00:33:03 < qyx> ok so I have the accel INT wired to a TIM2 channel
2020-09-15T00:33:19 < qyx> I can use TIM2 to count samples
2020-09-15T00:33:34 < qyx> ..presumably
2020-09-15T00:34:29 < zyp> you can use it to count INT pulses
2020-09-15T00:34:44 < zyp> so if you get it to pulse once per sample then yes
2020-09-15T00:34:48 < qyx> yeah
2020-09-15T00:34:58 < qyx> but it seems the timer can count only on the ETR input
2020-09-15T00:34:59 < Cracki> edges are good too
2020-09-15T00:35:10 < qyx> or am I reading it wrong?
2020-09-15T00:35:17 < Cracki> say which RM
2020-09-15T00:35:21 < zyp> uh
2020-09-15T00:35:30 < Cracki> my timer can certainly _not just_ count on etr
2020-09-15T00:35:54 < zyp> I think there's an input mux that can pick from the channels
2020-09-15T00:35:59 < Cracki> I have counting on ch1 edges working alright
2020-09-15T00:36:19 < zyp> isn't ETR and CH1 usually the same AF?
2020-09-15T00:38:48 < zyp> you set SMCR.SMS to external clock mode to run timer from TRGI and then SMCR.TS to select TRGI source
2020-09-15T00:39:11 < qyx> yeah looking at the RM picture atm
2020-09-15T00:39:25 < qyx> you can choose ETRF or TRGI (or others)
2020-09-15T00:39:34 < zyp> looks like you can at least use CH1 or CH2 (via TI1FP1/TI2FP2)
2020-09-15T00:40:38 < zyp> and probably also CH3 via the CH1-3 XOR feeding TI1
2020-09-15T00:41:26 < qyx> at first I was whoa, I cannot clock TIM2 by LSE
2020-09-15T00:41:28 < qyx> then, what for
2020-09-15T00:41:39 < zyp> you can't?
2020-09-15T00:41:53 < qyx> I managed to get LPTIM working off LSE
2020-09-15T00:41:55 < qyx> but not the others
2020-09-15T00:42:08 < zyp> which chip?
2020-09-15T00:42:15 < qyx> L432
2020-09-15T00:46:22 < zyp> true, the standard timers don't have a clock mux
2020-09-15T00:55:27 < qyx> first I am going to check if the DRDY output is even stable enough
2020-09-15T01:03:49 < qyx> https://bin.jvnv.net/file/oDgjH.png
2020-09-15T01:03:52 < qyx> they must be kigging
2020-09-15T01:13:28 < Laurenceb> qyx: that data was from LSM6DSL accel
2020-09-15T01:14:19 < qyx> this one only?
2020-09-15T01:14:36 < Laurenceb> thats all I have here sorry
2020-09-15T01:14:53 < Laurenceb> but ST datasheet spec seems easy to meet as far as noise goes
2020-09-15T01:15:03 < Laurenceb> I also did 6 point calibration
2020-09-15T01:15:11 < Laurenceb> got to <0.1% rms error iirc
2020-09-15T01:15:18 < Laurenceb> on about 30 boards
2020-09-15T01:15:39 < qyx> I am looking for data about offset stability/drift wrt temperature
2020-09-15T01:15:51 < Laurenceb> yeah I didnt look at that
2020-09-15T01:16:03 < Laurenceb> but LSM6DSL drift spec is one of the best
2020-09-15T01:16:18 < qyx> I'll probably have to do some multi-accel boards and temp-cycle them
2020-09-15T01:16:38 < qyx> if it can be compensated at all
2020-09-15T01:17:13 < Laurenceb> I'd imagine it can be, but getting calibration data accurate enough is challenging
2020-09-15T01:17:30 < Laurenceb> prob need a calibation jig for the board
2020-09-15T01:17:34 < Laurenceb> *calibration
2020-09-15T01:17:56 < Laurenceb> I'd imagine milliradian accuracy is possible
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2020-09-15T01:51:13 < catphish> yay the rest of my nucleo seems to have survived its zapping, impressive
2020-09-15T01:51:25 < bitmask> https://imgur.com/a/tZ3Z9Y2
2020-09-15T01:51:27 < bitmask> those might actually be useable
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2020-09-15T02:50:09 < qyx> the f_s looks reasonably stable https://paste.jvnv.net/view/LImfP
2020-09-15T02:58:47 < Laurenceb> what is this?
2020-09-15T03:00:18 < Laurenceb> wait r u cloning babbyshake?
2020-09-15T03:00:30 < Laurenceb> cuz that looks like cloned babbyshake
2020-09-15T03:00:32 < qyx> an accel running in batches of ~10000 samples
2020-09-15T03:00:45 < qyx> I need to get precise freq peaks
2020-09-15T03:01:03 < Laurenceb> excitation frequency?
2020-09-15T03:01:06 < qyx> in the range 0-5Hz
2020-09-15T03:01:17 < Laurenceb> ah ok
2020-09-15T03:01:20 < qyx> so I need to calibrate its sampling freq somehow
2020-09-15T03:01:27 < Laurenceb> aha
2020-09-15T03:01:32 < qyx> I have a 32768Hz TCXO connected to the LSE input
2020-09-15T03:01:33 < Laurenceb> that was the issue with babbyshake
2020-09-15T03:01:49 < qyx> apparently it is not that easy as I first though
2020-09-15T03:01:54 < Laurenceb> I used resampling on the stm32 using DRDY to timestamp
2020-09-15T03:02:02 < qyx> yeah me too
2020-09-15T03:02:07 < qyx> although not resampling
2020-09-15T03:02:14 < qyx> probably I don't need that
2020-09-15T03:02:23 < Laurenceb> you could prob postprocess in methlab/octave
2020-09-15T03:02:26 < qyx> I can shift the detected peaks afterwarsds
2020-09-15T03:02:41 < Laurenceb> if you can get accel timestamps off the stm32
2020-09-15T03:02:59 < qyx> I am timestamping the first and the last sample
2020-09-15T03:03:06 < Laurenceb> hmm
2020-09-15T03:03:13 < Laurenceb> I think there may be some jitter
2020-09-15T03:03:14 < qyx> so I get an average f_s of the whole batch
2020-09-15T03:03:18 < Laurenceb> maybe not an issue for you
2020-09-15T03:03:20 < qyx> yeah it looks so
2020-09-15T03:03:32 < qyx> I will let it run overnight
2020-09-15T03:03:33 < Laurenceb> its a poor quality rc oscillator aiui on the accel
2020-09-15T03:03:48 < Laurenceb> over a large number of samples the jitter might average out
2020-09-15T03:03:49 < qyx> meanwhile Im an investigating other possibilities
2020-09-15T03:03:58 < Laurenceb> but it could still be an issue for your application
2020-09-15T03:04:10 < Laurenceb> as it will "smear" out frequency peaks in the data
2020-09-15T03:04:14 < qyx> idk what the construction/matlab guy will say
2020-09-15T03:04:28 < Laurenceb> I'd just try to timestamp each CRCY rising edge
2020-09-15T03:04:32 < Laurenceb> *DRDY
2020-09-15T03:04:44 < qyx> if the osc was faster I would do that
2020-09-15T03:04:51 < Laurenceb> then you have everything you need
2020-09-15T03:04:55 < qyx> but it is only 32K
2020-09-15T03:04:56 < Laurenceb> ah I see
2020-09-15T03:05:03 < qyx> because battery powered
2020-09-15T03:05:16 < Laurenceb> lol you could PLL onto it in software lmao
2020-09-15T03:05:22 < qyx> I could use MSI PLL'd from the LSE maybe
2020-09-15T03:05:41 < Laurenceb> I used the USB SOF packets
2020-09-15T03:05:47 < Laurenceb> at 1khz as my timebase
2020-09-15T03:06:00 < qyx> theres no usb, only a LiSOCl2 and a LoRa modem
2020-09-15T03:06:17 < Laurenceb> but I had avantage of F0 with hardware FLL
2020-09-15T03:06:43 < qyx> did you test analol accels?
2020-09-15T03:06:49 < Laurenceb> no reason you couldnt emulate it in software
2020-09-15T03:06:52 < qyx> iirc there were some IEPE accels you mentioned
2020-09-15T03:06:54 < Laurenceb> but tricky work
2020-09-15T03:07:01 < Laurenceb> yeah I never tried them
2020-09-15T03:07:14 < Laurenceb> because babbyshake ""team leader"" said no
2020-09-15T03:07:15 < qyx> I found some piezo types
2020-09-15T03:07:17 < qyx> pcb mountable
2020-09-15T03:07:32 < qyx> although not DC capable
2020-09-15T03:07:45 < Laurenceb> yeah they have impressively low noise
2020-09-15T03:07:59 < Laurenceb> but flaky performance as the frequency gets close to DC
2020-09-15T03:08:48 < qyx> maybe I'll use a combination of multiple chips
2020-09-15T03:08:58 < Laurenceb> heh
2020-09-15T03:09:05 < Laurenceb> kalman filter of multiple accels
2020-09-15T03:09:30 < Laurenceb> or something.. prob just some standard DSP
2020-09-15T03:09:40 < qyx> analol accels have some pros
2020-09-15T03:09:58 < qyx> I can time the sampling precisely
2020-09-15T03:10:03 < Laurenceb> hmm ok
2020-09-15T03:10:12 < qyx> I hope
2020-09-15T03:10:19 < qyx> even using stm32 ADC
2020-09-15T03:10:28 < qyx> but not enough bits
2020-09-15T03:10:54 < qyx> a 24bit ~200sps ADC would be better for my purpose
2020-09-15T03:11:51 < Laurenceb> timestamps from systick counter using  LSE triggered interrupts
2020-09-15T03:12:05 < Laurenceb> then also timestamp each DRDY rising edge from systick
2020-09-15T03:12:18 < Laurenceb> then you can reconstruct everything in methlab
2020-09-15T03:12:25 < qyx> I cannot
2020-09-15T03:12:35 < qyx> because I can$t send the whole batch over LoRa
2020-09-15T03:12:41 < Laurenceb> you know what the systick is doing and what the accel is
2020-09-15T03:12:44 < Laurenceb> oh sheeet
2020-09-15T03:12:46 < qyx> I have to do the whole processing on the stm32 itself
2020-09-15T03:12:51 < Laurenceb> didnt realise you had to do that
2020-09-15T03:13:01 < qyx> including the welch thing
2020-09-15T03:13:14 < qyx> for which I haven't found any suitable lib yet
2020-09-15T03:13:14 < Laurenceb> ouch
2020-09-15T03:13:53 < Laurenceb> are you using a micro with hardware divide?
2020-09-15T03:14:06 < qyx> I am using L432 atm
2020-09-15T03:14:14 < Laurenceb> ok
2020-09-15T03:14:33 < Laurenceb> I used F0 for babbyshake and divide was using 60% of the cpu cycles
2020-09-15T03:14:39 < qyx> heh
2020-09-15T03:15:13 < Laurenceb> MAC was fast, but there was a new lookup table for each sample, so it needed to be rescaled using divide
2020-09-15T03:15:46 < Laurenceb> -table of FIR coefficients
2020-09-15T03:16:57 < Laurenceb> yeah I think you need some soft of software emulated PLL to convert systick to "true time"
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2020-09-15T03:17:40 < Laurenceb> good news is I bet it can run really fast, like a few clock cycles per iteration
2020-09-15T03:21:50 < qyx> ADXL1002 looks good
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2020-09-15T07:49:42 < jadew> probably old news, but in case any of you missed it: https://www.theatlantic.com/science/archive/2020/09/venus-life-phosphine-microbes/616342/
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2020-09-15T09:12:20 < machinehum> Yeah that's cool
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2020-09-15T11:14:31 < qyx> sampling freq of my accel https://i.imgur.com/2rQ8xqk.png
2020-09-15T11:15:04 < qyx> and now the question is whether the problem lies in the accelerometer itself or my measurement is wrong
2020-09-15T11:15:33 < jpa-> what problem? that graph looks exactly like i would expect it to be with accelerometer internal oscillator
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2020-09-15T12:27:10 < karlp> cute: https://www.latticesemi.com/singlewire
2020-09-15T12:28:23 < karlp> I wonder what the protocol on the wire is
2020-09-15T12:32:34 < jpa-> documentation seems to explain it, biphase mark encoding for clock recovery and then packets with 3-bit payload id
2020-09-15T12:32:41 < jpa-> not sure how they handle arbitration
2020-09-15T12:33:48 < jpa-> ah, they call it "TX rights negotiation"; TLDR: when idle the line has weak pull-up, the side that wants to transmit pulses it, the other side replies with a longer pulse, then packet starts
2020-09-15T12:34:11 < karlp> well, as if I went and actualyl read the docs...
2020-09-15T12:34:29 < Steffanx> Lol
2020-09-15T12:34:31 < jpa-> uh, i know that - you asked on ##read-the-docs-for-me
2020-09-15T12:34:59 < karlp> I'm mildly curious if it's reusable easily.
2020-09-15T12:35:20  * karlp files it away to read the rest of the docs one day.
2020-09-15T12:39:23 < jpa-> license is "Lattice Reference Design License Agreement" which allows use only on lattice devices, and does not appear to permit distributing source code
2020-09-15T12:40:15 < jpa-> some of the "source code" is also encrypted IP blocks instead of actual verilog source
2020-09-15T12:40:53 < jpa-> the nice thing is that they do not appear to claim any patents on the protocol, so compatible custom implementations would be possible
2020-09-15T12:42:02 < jpa-> http://paste.dy.fi/91s   the part of code that is not encrypted is just crap like this
2020-09-15T12:55:54 < Cracki> qyx, how do you time that? I'd plot time instead of frequency. that reveals steps in your time measurement too
2020-09-15T12:56:44 < Cracki> also gives those bins a lot more sense than equidistant frequency bins... when you're likely using a timer to sample this
2020-09-15T12:58:31 < Cracki> assuming 80 mhz (you said L432?), that's a few counts of jitter
2020-09-15T12:59:57 < Cracki> ok maybe +- a dozen
2020-09-15T13:27:51 < qyx> my timer runs 32768
2020-09-15T13:27:59 < qyx> I am timing the batch as a whole
2020-09-15T13:30:17 < jpa-> +-200ppm seems reasonable for any non-crystal oscillator
2020-09-15T13:31:19 < qyx> yes
2020-09-15T13:31:30 < qyx> I just hoped it had better short-term stability than that
2020-09-15T13:33:00 < jpa-> just resample to whatever you want
2020-09-15T13:33:32 < PaulFertser> What is the right pronunciation for PHY (as in physical layer IC)?
2020-09-15T13:42:21 < karlp> I always say "fy"
2020-09-15T13:42:35 < karlp> for "fæ" or however you like...
2020-09-15T13:42:42 < karlp> and it's what I'v eheard the most at least.
2020-09-15T13:43:08 < karlp> long I, hard F, like englishy my or I
2020-09-15T13:45:04 < qyx> fáj
2020-09-15T13:48:48 < PaulFertser> But why? I'd expect it to be part of "physical" so it would be "phee"
2020-09-15T13:51:03 < Cracki> that sounds more like a word and less like three uppercase letters
2020-09-15T13:51:16 < Steffanx> Is it Es-Pee-Eye. Or spee?
2020-09-15T13:51:29 < Cracki> spy bus
2020-09-15T13:52:06 < Steffanx> Eye eye see.
2020-09-15T13:52:15 < Cracki> one is made of initials, the other is an abbreviation
2020-09-15T13:53:07 < Cracki> nobody says pee aitch why but the y/i is still a why/eye
2020-09-15T13:53:42 < Cracki> serves to distinguish PHY from PHE, which is phee
2020-09-15T13:54:22 < Cracki> mint mind, note how you pronounce the i there
2020-09-15T13:54:41 < PaulFertser> I see, thanks folks
2020-09-15T13:54:55 < Steffanx> Lol. What did you say PaulFertser 
2020-09-15T13:55:11 < Steffanx> Or do russians use a Russian version?
2020-09-15T13:55:13 < Cracki> mostly it's pattern replication. everyone does it one way, people tend to go along
2020-09-15T13:57:19 < qyx> fucking tee
2020-09-15T13:57:23 < PaulFertser> Steffanx: I'm not sure if there's a russian version of that word.
2020-09-15T13:57:42 < qyx> I have overwritten my nightly log
2020-09-15T13:57:48 < Cracki> what do russians call the "physical layer"
2020-09-15T13:58:18 < Cracki> do moar snapshots, do less wild bashing of keyboard
2020-09-15T13:59:18 < qyx> from now on, I am exclusively using systemd to tee my output to a file
2020-09-15T13:59:43 < Cracki> lol
2020-09-15T14:01:33 < Cracki> what they call "journal" (binary barf) has nothing in common with the "journaling" people know from file systems (a safety feature)
2020-09-15T14:02:37 < Cracki> (2013) The only way to deal with journal corruptions, currently, is to ignore them https://bugs.freedesktop.org/show_bug.cgi?id=64116
2020-09-15T14:04:32 < PaulFertser> Cracki: I'm not talking much to them so no idea
2020-09-15T14:05:37 < Cracki> google translate says Fizicheskiy uroven', Физический уровень
2020-09-15T14:05:58 < Cracki> FIZ
2020-09-15T14:06:13 < qyx> RESOLVED NOTABUG
2020-09-15T14:06:34 < Cracki> text files can corrupt too but what's gonna happen, one broken record and you continue at the \n
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2020-09-15T14:07:45 < Cracki> binary isn't so forgiving. they clearly haven't the *desire* to maintain the benefits everyone came to expect from text files.
2020-09-15T14:21:21 < mawk> Now, our strategy to rotate-on-corruption is the safest thing we can do, as we make sure that the internal corruption is frozen in time, and not attempted to be "fixed" by a tool, that might end up making things worse.
2020-09-15T14:21:24 < mawk> what
2020-09-15T14:21:40 < mawk> so if a tool makes things worse, it's the end
2020-09-15T14:21:44 < mawk> you lost the initial file
2020-09-15T14:21:50 < mawk> maybe you could...make a copy of it
2020-09-15T14:22:27 < qyx> what about fixing the actual corruption
2020-09-15T14:41:11 < mawk> it's a hard problem in general
2020-09-15T14:41:15 < mawk> but they're saying that's what they do qyx 
2020-09-15T14:41:20 < mawk> they just not write it back to the file
2020-09-15T14:41:23 < mawk> they just do it live when reading
2020-09-15T14:41:38 < mawk> this has some merits, then the set corruption that can be restored can only get greater over time
2020-09-15T14:41:41 < mawk> for a given corrupted file
2020-09-15T14:42:51 < qyx> I mean fixing the code causing the corruption
2020-09-15T14:43:13 < mawk> ah, yes of course I'm sure they do that as well
2020-09-15T14:43:15 < qyx> or is the corruption at the filesystem level?
2020-09-15T14:43:16 < mawk> it's just a hard problem sometimes
2020-09-15T14:43:22 < mawk> if the fs is not atomic, then it's hard
2020-09-15T14:43:24 < mawk> yeah
2020-09-15T14:43:39 < qyx> so, shouln't the fix the fs instead?
2020-09-15T14:43:44 < qyx> or use a proper fs for that purpose?
2020-09-15T14:43:47 < mawk> yeah
2020-09-15T14:43:54 < mawk> well not being atomic is a desirable feature of a fs sometimes
2020-09-15T14:43:57 < mawk> it's a tradeoff with perf
2020-09-15T14:44:39 < mawk> like journal-less ext4 I think, the changes are written back to disk only every 10s
2020-09-15T14:45:44 < Cracki> likely it's just a bunch of records so the whole file isn't lost, but at some point you can't read on (assuming they place no sync markers)
2020-09-15T14:46:08 < Cracki> they *could* write blocks containing multiple messages at a time, that are consistent, if performance is an issue
2020-09-15T14:46:42 < Cracki> or add sync markers and make sure the payload doesn't contain them (bit stuffing, escaping, whatever). this isn't rocket science. mpeg transport streams have to deal with this.
2020-09-15T14:47:09 < Cracki> if they flushed for every record, that would be excessive
2020-09-15T14:47:37 < qyx> lets encode log messages as pictures and save them using mpeg-ts
2020-09-15T14:47:49 < mawk> lol
2020-09-15T14:47:53 < Cracki> encode as subtitles maybe
2020-09-15T14:48:14 < Cracki> then they'd still be stuffed in fixed length frames, with sync markers to make recovery easy
2020-09-15T14:48:32 < Cracki> or how about engineering this properly
2020-09-15T14:48:53 < Cracki> the argument for binary was that it was indexable or something
2020-09-15T14:48:59 < qyx> 5 years later, systemd depends on libavcodec
2020-09-15T14:49:02 < Cracki> or that you could more efficiently search it.
2020-09-15T14:49:06 < Cracki> everyone just uses grep
2020-09-15T14:49:18 < mawk> lol yeah
2020-09-15T14:49:26 < mawk> well have you seen journalctl
2020-09-15T14:49:35 < mawk> its options are unbearable
2020-09-15T14:49:41 < mawk> journalctl _SYSTEMD_UNIT=foo.service
2020-09-15T14:49:44 < mawk> who did that
2020-09-15T14:49:45 < Cracki> he basically copies windows. windows event logs are binary afaik
2020-09-15T14:49:50 < karlp> journalctl -u foo ?
2020-09-15T14:49:58 < mawk> for this one they have an equivalent
2020-09-15T14:50:11 < Cracki> microsoft seems to have figured out how to make binary logs somewhat reliable
2020-09-15T14:50:14 < karlp> journalctl is weird and has sucky things, but do you remember how shit it was before?
2020-09-15T14:50:28 < karlp> lets' randomly try file names that might be in /var/ somewhere
2020-09-15T14:50:31 < karlp> or somewhere else, who knows.
2020-09-15T14:50:49 < karlp> and maybe we'll zcat some of them, because some of them are compressed, but not others, 
2020-09-15T14:50:58 < Cracki> but then windows NT has existed for quite longer than a decade
2020-09-15T14:51:12 < qyx> the syslog concept itself is sane
2020-09-15T14:51:19 < karlp> ^^ 
2020-09-15T14:51:33 < Cracki> sure, it's always the implementations that fail
2020-09-15T14:51:41 < Cracki> or sometimes
2020-09-15T14:51:59 < qyx> it just misses the underlying storage
2020-09-15T14:52:01 < Cracki> can't argue against an idea, ideas can't be nailed to a wall, they're like pudding
2020-09-15T14:52:26 < Cracki> "just one more try" is what the idealists say, and then the pragmatists get shot and dumped into mass graves
2020-09-15T14:52:36 < qyx> I am not arguing with your pudding
2020-09-15T14:52:39  * qyx back to work
2020-09-15T14:52:41 < mawk> lol
2020-09-15T14:52:42 < Cracki> neither am I :P
2020-09-15T14:52:57 < karlp> look at this madness instead: https://www.eenewsembedded.com/news/gen-z-micro-development-kit-eases-development?fnid=131624
2020-09-15T14:53:05 < qyx> I need to get realtime samples out of this thing
2020-09-15T14:53:20 < qyx> also, offtopic, when should we expect stm32 with riscv core?
2020-09-15T14:53:41 < karlp> wouldn't hold my breath, they got all aboard the armv8 "secure computing" train
2020-09-15T14:56:09 < qyx> meh
2020-09-15T14:57:35 < karlp> how's riscv debug and trace coming along? it's all non-standardized still right?
2020-09-15T14:57:51 < Cracki> realtime samples eh
2020-09-15T14:57:58 < karlp> my gd32v board never got shipped and got refunded, so that's never happened
2020-09-15T14:58:08 < Cracki> implying you aren't getting realtime samples out of it yet?
2020-09-15T14:59:25 < qyx> no, what over? I have only semihosting working
2020-09-15T15:02:08 < Cracki> ah you mean that
2020-09-15T15:03:11 < Cracki> display/plot in IDE/ozone or sth (SWO is nice), or actually exfiltrate to a host computer?
2020-09-15T15:04:51 < Cracki> lazy: uart + uart-usb dongle :D
2020-09-15T15:06:31 < qyx> yeah, I am just trying to guess the pinout
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2020-09-15T15:52:09 < jadew> we just received photos from the first day of school, with each kid, and we get to download them
2020-09-15T15:52:15 < jadew> the problem is they're all wearing masks lol
2020-09-15T15:52:43 < jadew> "is this mine?"
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2020-09-15T16:00:09 < mawk> lol
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2020-09-15T16:45:30 < karlp> daughter 1 was very excited about school photos today
2020-09-15T16:47:38 < karlp> hrm, code I'm trying to retarget to new hardware, and don't understand very well appeared to have some wrapper functions to do some common functionality. all well and good,
2020-09-15T16:47:43 < karlp> except its only used... sometimes.
2020-09-15T16:47:47 < karlp> othertimes it goes in raw.
2020-09-15T16:47:56 < karlp> like, why?!
2020-09-15T16:48:09 < karlp> why be so inconsistent? why leave such pain for your followers
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2020-09-15T16:54:14 < qyx> Generating locales.. en_US.UTF-8...Killed
2020-09-15T16:54:23 < qyx> ok, no locales on 128meg SOM
2020-09-15T16:55:14 < zyp> :D
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2020-09-15T16:56:24 < qyx> at least byobu works
2020-09-15T16:56:32  * qyx back in 2005
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2020-09-15T17:24:36 < karlp1> awesome. can't change nick because I'm "quieted" on a channel (one channel only allows +R to talk)
2020-09-15T17:25:03 < karlp1> can't register on a backup nick.
2020-09-15T17:25:16 -!- karlp1 is now known as karlp
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2020-09-15T18:00:03 < englishman> freenode = fascism
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2020-09-15T18:30:26 < mawk> yes englishman 
2020-09-15T18:30:29 < mawk> I totally agre
2020-09-15T18:30:42 < aandrew> today is the 25th anniversary of Hackers
2020-09-15T18:30:44 < aandrew> HACK THE PLANET
2020-09-15T18:38:10 < Cracki> rooftop pool would be nice rn
2020-09-15T18:42:42 < mawk> cold caffeinated beverage and popping a few pills
2020-09-15T18:42:46 < mawk> poor man's speedball
2020-09-15T18:42:48 < Cracki> nexus 4 won't recognize sim cards anymore. let's hope reflashing the radio firmware is enough... that worked once before, surprisingly
2020-09-15T18:42:51 < mawk> that's what I'm going to do right now
2020-09-15T18:43:20 < Cracki> recently read some people talk about cheap coffee giving you heart palpitations, vs good coffee not doing that (caffeine content being equal)
2020-09-15T18:43:36 < Cracki> someone said he's been popping caffeine pills straight up, fuck the coffee
2020-09-15T18:47:34 < Ultrasauce> just took 200mg
2020-09-15T18:50:13 < karlp> maybe if I get more coffee it will help me work out how this code ever worked.
2020-09-15T19:17:44 < Cracki> lol reflashing radio firmware actually worked (again!)
2020-09-15T19:17:55 < Cracki> fucken magic
2020-09-15T19:18:58 < mawk> lol
2020-09-15T19:19:08 < mawk> N4 is getting quite old
2020-09-15T19:19:37 < jadew> I bought some of those cheap 10 MHz to 6 GHz bias tees from china to see if it makes sense to come up with my own bias tees or not, because the chinese ones cost a lot less than it costs to have that enclosure made
2020-09-15T19:20:09 < jadew> they specify < 1.2 dB insertion loss, I measured > 2 from 3 to 6 GHz http://188.26.15.195/stuff/Chinese%20Bias-Tee%2010%20MHz%20to%206%20GHz.png
2020-09-15T19:20:12 < Cracki> chinesium performs chinesish?
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2020-09-15T19:20:43 < Cracki> man that plot needs y axis tick labels
2020-09-15T19:20:56 < Cracki> ah, cursor is ref
2020-09-15T19:21:08 < jadew> connectors are as expected... trash - had to use a cheap adapter so I wouldn't damage my cables because they wouldn't mate easily
2020-09-15T19:21:18 < jadew> Cracki, yeah
2020-09-15T19:21:42 < jadew> and the biggest facepalm... the box is non-conductive
2020-09-15T19:22:14 < jadew> the top and the bottom plates are electrically connected only by whatever pieces the screws can bite on
2020-09-15T19:22:34 < jadew> because the coating is non-conductive (not the box)
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2020-09-15T19:22:57 < aandrew> jadew: yeah I've heard that anyone who really values their equipment use adapters because cheap cables destroy connectors
2020-09-15T19:23:41 < jadew> aandrew, yeah, they're really crappy
2020-09-15T19:23:49 < karlp> don't those adapters then then ruin your signal integrity as well?
2020-09-15T19:23:58 < karlp> so you have to have expensive, yet sacrificial adapters?
2020-09-15T19:24:29 < jadew> karlp, they do, yeah, but you can calibrate them out, as long as you're not operating outside of their stable performance range
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2020-09-15T19:29:29 -!- funky is now known as Streaker
2020-09-15T19:42:05 < jadew> new interview/discussion with Snowden: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_Rl82OQDoOc
2020-09-15T19:45:13 -!- upgrdman [~upgrdman@blender/artist/upgrdman] has joined ##stm32
2020-09-15T20:03:50 < upgrdman> :) https://gfycat.com/helplesshardangwantibo
2020-09-15T20:05:04 < Steffanx> You must be blaxter's brother upgrdman.
2020-09-15T20:05:06 < Steffanx> or kid.
2020-09-15T20:05:09 < Steffanx> or other family member
2020-09-15T20:05:19 < Steffanx> joining to dump dumb shit :P
2020-09-15T20:06:11 < upgrdman> :)
2020-09-15T20:07:34 < Steffanx> sup mr upgrdman?
2020-09-15T20:07:44 < upgrdman> not much
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2020-09-15T20:19:22 < karlp> jpa-: https://bin.jvnv.net/file/bAYTl.png
2020-09-15T20:19:49 < Steffanx> isnt jpa- always right?
2020-09-15T20:21:31 < karlp> well, that's why I did the test :)
2020-09-15T20:24:39 < karlp> now just to see if I can demonstrate it actually makes any interrmittent quirks go away...
2020-09-15T20:26:56 < Cracki> upgrdman, the youth these days calls it 'the dab' >_>
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2020-09-15T20:30:39 < mawk> lol Cracki 
2020-09-15T20:30:43 < mawk> it's not exactly that
2020-09-15T20:30:49 < Cracki> >_>
2020-09-15T20:31:00 < Cracki> I have a movie recommendation. it's from 1934
2020-09-15T20:33:26 < mawk> lol
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2020-09-15T20:34:10 < boddax> Bronenosec' Potëmkin movie ?
2020-09-15T20:34:54 < Cracki> close but not quite
2020-09-15T20:36:39 < Cracki> the directors could be brothers
2020-09-15T20:37:05 < Cracki> >greatest film of all time
2020-09-15T20:37:08 < Cracki> that's high praise
2020-09-15T20:37:38 < boddax> then wich one?
2020-09-15T20:38:32 < Cracki> it's one of those movies that seemed like a good idea at the time but today it offends people's sensibilities
2020-09-15T20:38:57 < Cracki> i think if the makers still lived today they'd regret having made it
2020-09-15T20:39:33 < boddax> hard to guess
2020-09-15T20:39:43 < Cracki> or making it, not too sure about the wording
2020-09-15T20:42:13 < boddax> country?
2020-09-15T20:42:14 < jadew> https://i.imgur.com/YaaMyuw.png
2020-09-15T20:43:08 < Cracki> har
2020-09-15T20:43:22 < boddax> lol jadew look lije italian premier
2020-09-15T20:43:56 < boddax> har stand for?
2020-09-15T20:43:57 < Cracki> boddax, I think it's the UK, it's in english and is set in london or something close
2020-09-15T20:44:43 < boddax> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_British_films_of_1934
2020-09-15T20:44:45 < jadew> https://i.imgur.com/oqazzjK.gifv
2020-09-15T20:45:33 < boddax> huge list
2020-09-15T20:45:33 < Cracki> nvm, it's murican. I should have known. no brit accents.
2020-09-15T20:46:00 < Cracki> yeah I'm not telling :D
2020-09-15T20:46:27 < Cracki> pick any from the list, I'm sure it'll be fun
2020-09-15T20:47:16 < boddax> hints
2020-09-15T20:48:37 < Cracki> as you can imagine, during that era movies were heavy on the propaganda, and so too was this one
2020-09-15T20:49:12 < boddax> The Secret of the Craki    Milton Rosmer     Seymour Hicks, Nancy O'Neil     Adventure
2020-09-15T20:50:01 < Cracki> *waves tentacles*
2020-09-15T20:50:36 < boddax> Wild Boy     Albert de Courville     Bud Flanagan, Duran-Duran     Comedy
2020-09-15T20:51:01 < Cracki> duran-duran??
2020-09-15T20:51:17 < MrMobius> stop waving your testicles
2020-09-15T20:53:26 < boddax> duran-duran or spandau bullet
2020-09-15T20:58:32 < MrMobius> Cracki, make any progress with your forth trolling?
2020-09-15T20:58:37 < MrMobius> *i kid*
2020-09-15T21:01:05 < boddax> hes busy watching movie
2020-09-15T21:02:10 < catphish> well fuck me in the ass, it actually works
2020-09-15T21:02:16 < Cracki> ok
2020-09-15T21:03:03 < qyx> karlp: smartfw32 is some kind of do-all-right universal firmware?
2020-09-15T21:09:03 -!- catphish [~user@unaffiliated/catphish] has quit [Quit: Leaving]
2020-09-15T21:09:43 < MrMobius> Cracki, did you figure out how variable works?
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2020-09-15T21:20:11 < catphish> i am genuinely shocked that i got this working! https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PPs2dqFrCnM
2020-09-15T21:22:41 < qyx> is it a shaking piece of rust?
2020-09-15T21:22:50 < catphish> it sure is!!
2020-09-15T21:23:02 < catphish> it shakes, it spins, it bangs
2020-09-15T21:23:07 < catphish> and it's rusty!
2020-09-15T21:24:11 -!- leorat [~leorat@unaffiliated/leorat] has joined ##stm32
2020-09-15T21:24:46 < boddax> harly engine?
2020-09-15T21:25:19 < catphish> general purpose stationary engine
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2020-09-15T21:28:09 < Cracki> hook it up to a generator maybe
2020-09-15T21:29:15 < catphish> i'll more likely hook it up to a scrap heap
2020-09-15T21:29:45 < catphish> might tune it a bit at the weekend first though, see if i can get it to actually rev rather than just idle
2020-09-15T21:29:56 < Cracki> >_>
2020-09-15T21:30:39 < boddax> look 4 strokes
2020-09-15T21:31:41 < boddax> that pulley seems to be used with belt
2020-09-15T21:32:58 < catphish> yeah, they're for running stuff like water pumps and farm machinery
2020-09-15T21:32:59 < boddax> wide belt movin hay bales or grain machine
2020-09-15T21:33:11 < catphish> i believe this one was removed from a hay loft
2020-09-15T21:36:26 -!- leorat [~leorat@unaffiliated/leorat] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
2020-09-15T21:36:48 < upgrdman> if you have a transformer with a center tap so it can be driven without an h-bridge, what are the "ends" called? "leg a" and "leg b" ?
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2020-09-15T21:37:56 < boddax> autotransformer?
2020-09-15T21:38:19 < upgrdman> no its just a transfers
2020-09-15T21:38:22 < upgrdman> transformer
2020-09-15T21:38:25 < Cracki> like fig 1? https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Split-phase_electric_power
2020-09-15T21:38:36 < upgrdman> Cracki, ya
2020-09-15T21:38:41 < Cracki> except other way
2020-09-15T21:38:43 < upgrdman> what are v1 and v2 called? 
2020-09-15T21:38:52 < upgrdman> "legs" ?
2020-09-15T21:38:55 < upgrdman> "ends" ?
2020-09-15T21:39:09 < Cracki> they just say "either end to center"
2020-09-15T21:39:14 < Cracki> don't see terms for it
2020-09-15T21:39:23 < upgrdman> fuck. that'd be a shit net name on my schematyic :/
2020-09-15T21:39:27 < upgrdman> k
2020-09-15T21:39:37 < jpa-> karlp: :D
2020-09-15T21:39:54 < Cracki> if the center tap is a tap, I'd guess the ends are called taps too but no clue if they have names
2020-09-15T21:40:54 < Cracki> here it's "taps" too https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Autotransformer
2020-09-15T21:40:56 < jpa-> karlp: now you can finally justify spending 50% of workday on irc
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2020-09-15T23:01:25 < zyp> sup?
2020-09-15T23:02:18 < mawk> sup
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2020-09-15T23:06:55 < zyp> returned the compressor and drill stuff and since I had a tow-capable car I got some extra use out of it
2020-09-15T23:07:38 < zyp> bought a ton of concrete blocks and borrowed a trailer from the store to get them home
2020-09-15T23:07:55 < zyp> I mean, almost a literal ton, something like 930kg of them
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2020-09-15T23:09:04 < zyp> so after the drilling and then the loading and unloading of the concrete blocks, my arms are pretty shot now :p
2020-09-15T23:10:41 < qyx> a ton? it is hardly a single pallet, isn't it?
2020-09-15T23:12:24 < Cracki> if it's those things... https://miro.medium.com/max/499/1*Z7UXQyqFk1vofkohR2O2Cg.jpeg
2020-09-15T23:13:00 < zyp> similar
2020-09-15T23:13:10 < Cracki> concrete is about 2.4 tons/m3 so that should be near water, so a ton could be a cubic meter
2020-09-15T23:13:15 < zyp> and yeah
2020-09-15T23:13:55 < Cracki> euro pallet has 0.96 m2 area too
2020-09-15T23:15:40 < Cracki> "CMUs" hahah https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Concrete_masonry_unit
2020-09-15T23:15:46 < qyx> those are about 27kg, there are 40 pieces on a pellet
2020-09-15T23:16:03 < qyx> it depends on the size, 40-60pcs, 20-30kg
2020-09-15T23:17:25 < zyp> I realized afterwards that I could have just told them to load up a whole pallet
2020-09-15T23:17:55 < Cracki> what did they do, move individual blocks, or drop a pallet and take off a few
2020-09-15T23:18:27 < catphish> anyone who hasn't appreciated my rotating pile of rust yet: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PPs2dqFrCnM
2020-09-15T23:18:31 < zyp> I drove into the store and loaded up the trailer one by one
2020-09-15T23:18:42 < Cracki> I hope you have a skidsteer with fork to unload that. I would not wanna do that by hand
2020-09-15T23:18:51 < Cracki> wew
2020-09-15T23:19:01 < zyp> and then I drove home and unloaded them one by one
2020-09-15T23:19:47 < Cracki> dude's unloading whole pallets with a skidsteer https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iYQV7N5wpnc
2020-09-15T23:20:04 < Cracki> oh no actual forklift, but he does use a skidsteer sometimes too
2020-09-15T23:20:24 < zyp> not a big deal anyway, I'm gonna have to place them all by hand later anyway :p
2020-09-15T23:21:30 < Cracki> I keep wondering, that could be supported with some robotics too. put up a scaffold and some controlled winches, grab the hook, hook senses your applied force, moves with you, hook/claws can grab block without you exerting yourself
2020-09-15T23:21:55 < zyp> but really, last time I bought some, I stacked them inside the car :p
2020-09-15T23:22:15 < zyp> loading and unloading a trailer is still easier
2020-09-15T23:23:28 < Cracki> here he's mixing concrete with an attachment (minute 7 for the actual thing) https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z2kwKJHn0zo
2020-09-15T23:24:16 < karlp> that CMU wiki si interesting talking about "lower density using wastes like fly ash"
2020-09-15T23:24:25 < zyp> https://bin.jvnv.net/file/tlJii.jpg <- this is the sort of shit I got
2020-09-15T23:24:45 < karlp> fly ash is in such demand for concrete because of how good it is it became too expensive, even though it was originally used as a cheap sub
2020-09-15T23:25:54 < qyx> it is how EEs and CS do concrete walls
2020-09-15T23:25:59 < qyx> all brand new tools
2020-09-15T23:27:03 < Cracki> order a ton of bricks, lay bricks, order a concrete truck, pour? :D
2020-09-15T23:27:11 < zyp> for affordable tools I prefer buying rather than renting
2020-09-15T23:28:12 < mawk> I don't get it PaulFertser 
2020-09-15T23:28:18 < mawk> when I try load_image a few more times then it works
2020-09-15T23:28:21 < mawk> it seems a bit random
2020-09-15T23:28:22 < Cracki> you can lay them and pour later. looks like you're filling in while laying
2020-09-15T23:28:26 < mawk> let met try with -d3 to get more info for you
2020-09-15T23:28:36 < zyp> Cracki, I'd like to do it in stages rather than all at once, and a concrete truck doesn't make financial sense for such small amounts
2020-09-15T23:29:34 < zyp> and no, I'm laying everything for the stage and then pouring
2020-09-15T23:29:38 < Cracki> huh ok. I'd have guessed that they could do a "rideshare", you get two tons, rest goes to other customers
2020-09-15T23:30:00 < qyx> how so
2020-09-15T23:30:01 < zyp> I don't need two tons, more like half a ton
2020-09-15T23:30:07 < qyx> you have about 45 mins to pour all of it
2020-09-15T23:30:24 < zyp> you can get a pump truck, but that's extra setup costs
2020-09-15T23:30:34 < Cracki> concrete trucks keep stirring. it's not gonna cause a problem that fast
2020-09-15T23:30:37 < karlp> "fuck it, just add more water..."
2020-09-15T23:30:45 < zyp> well, you pay for the time
2020-09-15T23:30:52 < Cracki> no pump truck, just the chute
2020-09-15T23:30:56 < qyx> Cracki: it doesn't mean the concrete is not chemically changing
2020-09-15T23:30:59 < Cracki> that's true. time is money.
2020-09-15T23:31:28 < qyx> https://www.concreteconstruction.net/concrete-production-precast/its-about-time_o
2020-09-15T23:31:35 < karlp> that's for precast...
2020-09-15T23:31:35 < qyx> they are saying 60min
2020-09-15T23:31:44 < karlp> you've got lots of variables
2020-09-15T23:31:47 < zyp> anyway, I ran the numbers last year
2020-09-15T23:31:48 < karlp> most sites can't control them all
2020-09-15T23:32:12 < mawk> and now there's an off-by-one error in the load_image when I try again PaulFertser , very very strange
2020-09-15T23:32:16 < zyp> ordering a truck makes sense for 4m3 or more 
2020-09-15T23:32:17 < mawk> it doesn't write the last byte
2020-09-15T23:32:32 < mawk> maybe I should just see the code of load_image and try to fix it
2020-09-15T23:33:02 < Cracki> all the concrete delivery I can find doesn't even mention quantities
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2020-09-15T23:33:18 < Cracki> they do mention example projects such as a path in a garden
2020-09-15T23:33:51 < karlp> (most people can't estimatte quantities either)
2020-09-15T23:33:54 < zyp> I mean, prices are naturally local, maybe you germans have cheaper concrete workers than here in norway
2020-09-15T23:34:24 < Cracki> didn't even see prices yet "call us"
2020-09-15T23:34:27 < zyp> and also, mixing and filling is not really that big a job
2020-09-15T23:34:29 < karlp> if your volumes are small, the price of fancier concrete is ~irrelvant, so you should go for SCC or fr-scc.
2020-09-15T23:34:45 < qyx> what precast
2020-09-15T23:34:49 < karlp> longer work times, no babyshakky, more final strenght
2020-09-15T23:35:32 < Cracki> ah here we go, 100-130 euro/m3. 6 m3 MOQ.
2020-09-15T23:35:40 < mawk> PaulFertser: here's the debug log of a load_image + verify_image https://paste.serveur.io/raw/j8RirrkK
2020-09-15T23:35:46 < Cracki> looks like a "regular" place, not for home improvement
2020-09-15T23:36:09 < Cracki> 18e/m3 surcharge when going below MOQ
2020-09-15T23:36:54 < mawk> ok so it fails in the last byte
2020-09-15T23:36:56 < mawk> Debug: 588 20476 stlink_usb.c:758 stlink_usb_error_check(): STLINK_SWD_AP_FAULT
2020-09-15T23:36:58 < mawk> Debug: 589 20476 command.c:627 run_command(): Command 'load_image' failed with error code -4
2020-09-15T23:37:03 < mawk> there's a problem with my stlink ? it's not a clone
2020-09-15T23:37:33 < karlp> catphish: whattt's the ECU code for the motor now? still the "wait 2ms and close the pins again" ?
2020-09-15T23:38:26 < zyp> Cracki, no setup costs? or is that only if you want additional shit like pump truck?
2020-09-15T23:38:34 < Cracki> oh tons of setup costs :>
2020-09-15T23:39:11 < Cracki> first table with big blue header, 5 m3 would cost them 590 eur https://kostencheck.de/fertigbeton-preise
2020-09-15T23:39:20 < karlp> mawk: how much are you trying to write to eeprom?
2020-09-15T23:39:29 < mawk> 34 bytes
2020-09-15T23:39:39 < mawk> from the start of the eeprom
2020-09-15T23:39:47 < mawk> if I poke the bytes manually with mwb it works correctly
2020-09-15T23:41:05 < mawk> so it's "access port fault" and it's a memory-related fault, apparently
2020-09-15T23:41:13 < mawk> let's see silicon errata
2020-09-15T23:41:58 < catphish> karlp: right now the code basically just tracks the input from the points: https://paste.ubuntu.com/p/Jyht5t7nQP/
2020-09-15T23:42:33 < catphish> karlp: next i will try to eliminate the need for this by calculating the timing myself
2020-09-15T23:44:59 < karlp> mawk: hrm, I've only ever written a byte or two via scripts, so I just use those same snippets paul shared witth you
2020-09-15T23:45:14 < karlp> the target just reads that the eepom is "invalid" and loads defaults it has itself
2020-09-15T23:45:30 < mawk> I see
2020-09-15T23:45:41 < karlp> but that doesn't really help you :|
2020-09-15T23:45:47 < mawk> well I can do it like you two yeah, it's just strange that doing it like that works but not the "canonical" method
2020-09-15T23:45:59 < karlp> I've used in code level, "unlock, memcpy big struct; lock" though
2020-09-15T23:46:05 < mawk> maybe only byte-size writes work correctly with eeprom
2020-09-15T23:46:07 < karlp> and that's all load_image _should_ be doing, 
2020-09-15T23:46:37 < mawk> and load_image is trying to write 4 bytes at a time manifestly
2020-09-15T23:46:53 < mawk> according to the debug log
2020-09-15T23:47:06 < mawk> if I force it to 1 byte writes it will probably work, since that's what mwb does
2020-09-15T23:47:42 < mawk> also mww should fail based on this
2020-09-15T23:50:16 < karlp> netbeans 12.1, finally returns c/c++, buttt "not as good as in nb8.2 yet" https://netbeans.apache.org/download/nb121/index.html
2020-09-15T23:50:45 < mawk> well mww worked, it's calling the same kind of function in the code
2020-09-15T23:50:47 < mawk> that's pretty strange
2020-09-15T23:51:27 < mawk> the difference is that mww only writes 1 word at a time, while load_image writes 8 words at a time, and apparently 8 words is too big for the stlink protocol
2020-09-15T23:51:56 < mawk> but wait, but it's not too big because it actually works, it just returns an error code even if it worked
2020-09-15T23:52:03 < mawk> that's the problem, exactly
2020-09-15T23:52:34 < mawk> there's stlink_usb_error_check(): STLINK_SWD_AP_FAULT even if some words were written
2020-09-15T23:57:51 < karlp> update the firmware on your stlink?
--- Day changed Wed Sep 16 2020
2020-09-16T00:03:42 < mawk> ah good idea
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2020-09-16T00:08:12 < mawk> same error
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2020-09-16T00:34:38 < karlp> can you load_image to just some ram address?
2020-09-16T00:41:22 < upgrdman> anyone know why someone would put a resistor between the + input and ground for this circuit: https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/4/41/Op-Amp_Inverting_Amplifier.svg
2020-09-16T00:46:01 < upgrdman> o nm, it said right below the image "A resistor is often inserted between the non-inverting input and ground (so both inputs "see" similar resistances), reducing the input offset voltage due to different voltage drops due to bias current, and may reduce distortion in some op amps."
2020-09-16T00:49:36 < Cracki> TIL
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2020-09-16T01:25:01 < Ultrasauce> only necessary for bipolar opamps of course
2020-09-16T01:25:02 < Ultrasauce> dammit
2020-09-16T01:25:55 < Laurenceb> hah bet you didnt know that
2020-09-16T01:25:56 < Laurenceb> the parts of capitalism I don't like are actually communism
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2020-09-16T01:35:06 < Laurenceb> babbyshake crew at wurk 
2020-09-16T01:35:26 < Laurenceb> https://www.surepulsemedical.com/wp-content/uploads/2019/10/DSC6155-Colour-e1572280210235.jpg
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2020-09-16T01:56:40 < karlp> well, great.
2020-09-16T01:56:50 < karlp> trying out renode some more, working what i'm issing.  
2020-09-16T01:57:05 < karlp> running on real hardware, get one uart rx irq per keypress
2020-09-16T01:57:08 < karlp> on renode, get two.
2020-09-16T01:57:26 < karlp> I don't _think_ this is a problem with the monitors
2020-09-16T01:58:47 < karlp> hrm, maybe it is after all.
2020-09-16T01:59:03 < karlp> typing into their own window that's the "uart2" Iget the right behaviour
2020-09-16T01:59:17 < karlp> connecting that uart to a terminal server I get dups.
2020-09-16T01:59:23 < karlp> nasty nasty hobbits
2020-09-16T02:05:29 < karlp> now, can I trim the example down before bed....
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2020-09-16T02:19:32 < karlp> fucking works now that it's trimmed further
2020-09-16T02:19:34 < karlp> boooooo
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2020-09-16T02:26:02 < mawk> ah good question karlp 
2020-09-16T02:27:08 < mawk> yes I can
2020-09-16T02:27:11 < mawk> Debug: 485 24632 target.c:2199 target_write_buffer(): writing buffer of 34 byte at 0x20000000
2020-09-16T02:27:13 < mawk> Debug: 486 24632 hla_target.c:784 adapter_write_memory(): adapter_write_memory 0x20000000 4 8
2020-09-16T02:27:19 < mawk> so the write size is not a problem
2020-09-16T02:27:35 < mawk> the problem is that the target is eeprom maybe
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2020-09-16T02:35:57 < karlp> hrm, still can't get modbus ttools to talk to a renode machine.
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2020-09-16T03:03:09 < qyx> fuk that TPS92511 LED driver
2020-09-16T03:03:22 < qyx> another one burnt
2020-09-16T03:04:43 < qyx> I am not going to try for the third time
2020-09-16T03:11:50 < qyx> https://e2e.ti.com/support/power-management/f/196/t/935328?TPS92511-MOSFET-failure
2020-09-16T03:11:53 < qyx> no shit.
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2020-09-16T07:39:48 < aandrew> ok I've got a really stupid question. UDP sockets; both client and server on the same machine (for now) - server does the usual socket()/bind() to listen on a fixed port and client can sendto() just fine. Is there a way for the client to see what port it sent from? the server sees it because the client sockaddr is filled out by recvfrom();  is there a similar mechanism I can use on the client side to see 
2020-09-16T07:39:54 < aandrew> what port it sent from?
2020-09-16T07:47:52 < Cracki> uh, I think you can have the client bind to port 0 or -1 and then query that. getsockname.
2020-09-16T07:48:23 < aandrew> ahh that sounds plausible, thanks
2020-09-16T07:48:37 < Cracki> not sure if posix apis (or whatever they are) have a mechanism to see what interface a packet actually leaves on
2020-09-16T07:49:17 < Cracki> if you bind to 0.0.0.0, that's for receiving, it would still pick an appropriate interface and source address...
2020-09-16T07:50:41 < Cracki> https://laforge.gnumonks.org/blog/20171020-local_ip_unbound_udp/
2020-09-16T07:51:12 < Cracki> heh, "trial" socket.
2020-09-16T07:51:49 < Cracki> oh right, even udp sockets support connect(). that causes dest addr to be filled in, so send() works in addition to sendto()
2020-09-16T07:52:16 < aandrew> interesting
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2020-09-16T10:21:27 < jpa-> aandrew: use recvmsg()
2020-09-16T10:21:50 < jpa-> ah
2020-09-16T10:22:12 < jpa-> sorry, didn't realize you were asking about the sender side
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2020-09-16T10:52:31 < jadew> I don't know if my PC is slowing down or if Fusion360 is becoming heavier
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2020-09-16T11:05:51 < PaulFertser> mawk: sorry, was too tired to discuss anything meaningfully yesterday.
2020-09-16T11:06:23 < PaulFertser> mawk: my wild guess would be that writing to eeprom requires more time and so openocd sends there too fast. I wonder if using "adapter speed 100" would change the observed results.
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2020-09-16T11:27:27 < qyx> Click to Download (Data Logger Manual M1a v30.pdf , 4.1MB) This is a BIG file, and may take a minute or 2wo to appear in Adobe Reader
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2020-09-16T11:54:38 < karlp> PaulFertser: I thought that too, but it should be waiting for each write to finish, word by word?  I mean, there's no loader involved.
2020-09-16T11:54:54 < karlp> but yes, eeprom writes are as slow as pages, or half pages on l1.
2020-09-16T12:06:27 < PaulFertser> karlp: I'd expect the hardware to send WAIT over SWD and stlink to handle that, yes, but probably eeprom is special somehow.
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2020-09-16T12:33:30 < qyx> zyp: you asked yesterday https://bin.jvnv.net/file/toP5H.jpg
2020-09-16T12:34:23 < karlp> https://embeetle.com/#comics/debugger
2020-09-16T12:36:47 < mawk> ah yes good idea PaulFertser 
2020-09-16T12:37:37 < jpa-> karlp: funny license on embeetle
2020-09-16T12:39:18 < karlp> only just found it finally, reading now
2020-09-16T12:39:27 < karlp> ahh. you mean the blank one
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2020-09-16T12:42:05 < jpa-> actually i only meant the "free to distribute but can't modify"; but i guess it makes sense as they don't publish source either
2020-09-16T12:42:21 < jpa-> i was fooled by them claiming "open" on the home page
2020-09-16T12:43:05 < karlp> oh, this one: https://embeetle.com/#licenses/license.pre yeah, fuck that 
2020-09-16T12:44:53 < qyx> We are interested in distributing Embeetle under other licenses as well.
2020-09-16T12:44:54 < qyx> what
2020-09-16T12:45:49 < karlp> well, they're burning someone's money
2020-09-16T12:45:55 < karlp> they had a stand at embedded world and everything
2020-09-16T12:46:00 < karlp> and it's only three people.
2020-09-16T13:18:43 < zyp> qyx, nice
2020-09-16T13:19:13 < zyp> https://bin.jvnv.net/file/Sb0fI.jpg <- my shit
2020-09-16T13:19:44  * qyx opening 240MB log in geany
2020-09-16T13:20:15 < qyx> what will you do with the holes?
2020-09-16T13:22:11 < zyp> fill them with expanding mortar
2020-09-16T13:23:14 < Steffanx> How long did it take with this other drill toy?
2020-09-16T13:24:36 < zyp> according to the run time counter on the air compressor, I had it running for 3.5 hours in total
2020-09-16T13:25:46 < qyx> do they charge according to run time?
2020-09-16T13:26:27 < zyp> no, fixed per day, but I have the habit of snapping photos of stuff like that before and after
2020-09-16T13:28:59 < Steffanx> Heh
2020-09-16T13:30:07 < zyp> I could have drilled more over in the corner, but I was done with the main goal and getting tired and then when the drill bit broke I figured fuck it
2020-09-16T13:30:38 < mawk> you're mining zyp ?
2020-09-16T13:31:20 < Steffanx> Buttcoin.
2020-09-16T13:32:15 < mawk> :(
2020-09-16T13:41:36 < qyx> zyp: whoa how much was the drill bit?
2020-09-16T13:45:50 < zyp> dunno, when I returned the stuff the guy just said «oh well, that happens»
2020-09-16T13:49:25 < zyp> looks like a crown of that size is like 40-50 EUR so not awfully expensive
2020-09-16T13:49:47 < zyp> and 60 EUR for the rod, but I figure that might still be usable
2020-09-16T13:51:02 < zyp> looked like the tip of the rod with the crown broke off, but I figure it should be possible to just machine a new conical tip and put on a new crown
2020-09-16T13:52:15 < zyp> ah, 30 EUR to machine a rod
2020-09-16T13:52:29 < qyx> so not that much
2020-09-16T13:53:17 < qyx> SDS max 40 x 600 mm is about 35€
2020-09-16T13:53:28 < qyx> why did I though it is a multi 100€ thing
2020-09-16T13:53:53 < zyp> rods/crowns seems to be cheaper than SDS max drill bits
2020-09-16T13:54:41 < zyp> I mean, in terms of wear
2020-09-16T13:55:27 < zyp> sds max 34x550 is 70 EUR here
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2020-09-16T13:57:26 < qyx> offtopic, how to parse ff3a007e14d2 to int16_t[3] in a shell?
2020-09-16T13:58:05 < qyx> (I could have written a 2 line python instead of browsing stackoverflow the last 30min)
2020-09-16T13:58:15 < zyp> sscanf?
2020-09-16T13:59:53 < zyp> and yeah, python is available you could do one of these:
2020-09-16T13:59:54 < zyp> >>> struct.unpack('<3h', bytes.fromhex('ff3a007e14d2'))
2020-09-16T13:59:54 < zyp> (15103, 32256, -11756)
2020-09-16T13:59:54 < zyp> >>> struct.unpack('>3h', bytes.fromhex('ff3a007e14d2'))
2020-09-16T13:59:54 < zyp> (-198, 126, 5330)
2020-09-16T14:00:09 < zyp> *if python is available
2020-09-16T14:15:24 < mawk> python ftw
2020-09-16T14:16:35 < mawk> int16_t lol[] = {0xff3a, 0x007e, 0x14d2};
2020-09-16T14:16:37 < mawk> like this ???
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2020-09-16T15:23:08 < qyx> TIL theres no single-line solution to plot FFT of a signal
2020-09-16T15:23:15 < qyx> in matlab/octave
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2020-09-16T15:52:27 < qyx> https://i.imgur.com/wNUXNxn.png
2020-09-16T15:52:47 < qyx> Dc signal is at 52.5dB, the highest noise peak is about -13dB
2020-09-16T15:53:12 < qyx> therefore ths SNR should be about 65.5dB, am I reading it right?
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2020-09-16T16:04:59 < qyx> no, signal to the highest spur is SFR
2020-09-16T16:05:01 < qyx> *SFDR
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2020-09-16T17:25:10 < dongs> so uh lunix nerds, asking for a friend, who is fucking compiling C++ and opencv aids on a fucking embedded system, how does one setup a crosscompile env for this
2020-09-16T17:25:17 < dongs> link or something would be enough, he can read
2020-09-16T17:25:59 < effractur> like does the embedded stuff run linux/
2020-09-16T17:26:07 < dongs> yeah its niggerbunto
2020-09-16T17:26:18 < dongs> but it takes years to build shit
2020-09-16T17:26:24 < dongs> not to mention is retarded and inefficient
2020-09-16T17:26:34 < effractur> you have crossdev to make your live easy
2020-09-16T17:27:30 < effractur> or use distcc
2020-09-16T17:27:37 < effractur> to offload compiling to something faster
2020-09-16T17:27:50 < dongs> googling both
2020-09-16T17:27:56 -!- PublicWiFi [~McDonalds@unaffiliated/mcdonaldswifi] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds]
2020-09-16T17:28:00 < dongs> .. that is gentoo
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2020-09-16T17:29:28 < jpa-> dongs: typically one would build the whole embedded system using e.g. yocto or similar, and that would handle compiling opencv & whatever
2020-09-16T17:29:38 < dongs> hmmh
2020-09-16T17:29:48 < dongs> how do all these niggerbunto etc shits end up being built then?
2020-09-16T17:30:11 < jpa-> i assume if he has linux already running on it, he has somehow built the userland for it or uses some distro? use the cross compilation buildchain for whatever the rest of the stuff comes from
2020-09-16T17:30:28 < dongs> its just a chink iamge
2020-09-16T17:30:36 < dongs> niggerbunto 18 or wahtever
2020-09-16T17:30:39 < dongs> so its just that
2020-09-16T17:30:48 < jpa-> for arm? or for x86?
2020-09-16T17:30:52 < dongs> arm
2020-09-16T17:31:39 < dongs> waht is yocto
2020-09-16T17:31:46 < dongs> more opensores shit?
2020-09-16T17:31:48 < jpa-> if he has same ubuntu version installed on PC, he can just install gcc-arm-linux-gnueabi to get the toolchain
2020-09-16T17:32:00 < jpa-> yocto etc. is for embedded stuff that is too small to run bloatbuntu
2020-09-16T17:32:09 < jpa-> but if he is just using standard ubuntu that's easier
2020-09-16T17:32:20 < jpa-> https://askubuntu.com/questions/250696/how-to-cross-compile-for-arm
2020-09-16T17:32:35 < dongs> yeah nah this is just standard shit, and even packages (?) or wahteve work, he just needs newer (?) shit idk. i never fucked with opencv
2020-09-16T17:32:47 < jpa-> https://docs.opencv.org/2.4/doc/tutorials/introduction/crosscompilation/arm_crosscompile_with_cmake.html
2020-09-16T17:33:15 < dongs> ok linking that last thing, that sounds pro enough
2020-09-16T17:33:21 < dongs> thank you sir
2020-09-16T17:33:41 < dongs> how do i check hf or not
2020-09-16T17:33:45 < dongs> the hARDfLOAT shit
2020-09-16T17:34:04 < jpa-> https://launchpad.net/~patrick-salecker/+archive/ubuntu/opencv/+packages   this random PPA looks to have newer opencv already built for armhf
2020-09-16T17:34:21 < dongs> thats still like a year old
2020-09-16T17:34:28 < jpa-> true
2020-09-16T17:34:32 < dongs> tahts ok, nigga is gonna follow the crosscompile instructions.
2020-09-16T17:34:34 < dongs> and im going to sleep
2020-09-16T17:34:37 < dongs> thanks jpa <3
2020-09-16T17:34:57 < jpa-> np, always ready to help fellow niggerbuntuist
2020-09-16T17:35:03 < dongs> i fucking hate lunix
2020-09-16T17:35:36 < qyx> just dream about it
2020-09-16T17:35:48 < qyx> on windows you do click click, download the newest version
2020-09-16T17:35:52 < qyx> > 2 years old
2020-09-16T17:37:55 < dongs> [optional] libjpeg-dev, libpng-dev, libtiff-dev, libjasper-dev for armeabi(hf).
2020-09-16T17:37:59 < dongs> so need to build all those?
2020-09-16T17:38:23 < dongs> or.. how the fuck does that work
2020-09-16T17:38:25 < dongs> damn lunix is fuckign trash
2020-09-16T17:38:52 < jpa-> one can just do   apt-get build-dep opencv:armhf    or similar
2020-09-16T17:39:20 < jpa-> to get the cross-compilation dependencies, that's assuming you don't need a newer version of libjpeg or similar
2020-09-16T17:40:32 < jpa-> but the fun thing is that it will randomly pick up some header from the host system instead of the target system and everything will be broken in funny ways that take days to debug
2020-09-16T17:40:39 < jpa-> but that's just normal linux user experience
2020-09-16T17:41:46 < jpa-> one silly way is to run the target image under qemu on PC; because of fast SSD etc. it will still compile pretty fast
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2020-09-16T17:42:34 < jpa-> (either whole system, or chroot with qemu-user-binfmt)
2020-09-16T17:53:35 < dongs> haha, will that work?
2020-09-16T18:00:41 < karlp> it's kinda a tedious way of doing it, but yeah,
2020-09-16T18:01:45 < englishman> lol
2020-09-16T18:03:23 < Ultrasauce> i do almost all my building on-target, cross compilation is invariably painful
2020-09-16T18:03:56 < karlp> well, yocto owrt "fix" lots of that, but they're targettign "not-ubuntu" type environments
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2020-09-16T18:08:20 < Ultrasauce> also instead of mounting the image you can do it live with sshfs
2020-09-16T18:08:27 < Ultrasauce> that got me out of a sticky situation recently
2020-09-16T18:20:17 < jpa-> haha, live with sshfs using qemu-user-binfmt sounds either rad or mad, not sure which
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2020-09-16T19:11:30 < Cracki> dongs, tell him to disregard all 2.4 docs. 2.4 is no longer supported. 3.4 or 4.x are current releases.
2020-09-16T19:12:30 < Cracki> and no, the required libraries don't need to be built. there are arm binary packages of those.
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2020-09-16T19:41:06 < qyx> there was stm32 with a 16bit SAR ADC, wasn't there?
2020-09-16T19:43:25 < karlp> f37x
2020-09-16T19:43:27 < karlp> 334 too iirc
2020-09-16T19:43:44 < qyx> no, those are sigma delta
2020-09-16T19:45:53 < karlp> hrm, g4? l5?
2020-09-16T19:46:15 < jpa-> STM32H743
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2020-09-16T19:59:07 < mawk> doing bike with a miniskirt, worst idea
2020-09-16T19:59:18 < mawk> the cars coming in front of the girl get a good look
2020-09-16T20:02:47 < specing> *best* idea
2020-09-16T20:06:30 < mawk> lol
2020-09-16T20:19:27 < jpa-> good look of what? less than what one would see in a swimming hall or on the beach?
2020-09-16T20:23:54 < Cracki> who's riding the bike with a miniskirt?
2020-09-16T20:23:59 < PaulFertser> Motor bike riders should wear full gear, so wearing a miniskirt on top of that wouldn't be sensible.
2020-09-16T20:24:05 < Cracki> is she/he wearing any panties?
2020-09-16T20:24:14 < mawk> swimsuits are engineered to be looked by people jpa- , not panties
2020-09-16T20:24:20 < Cracki> full gear + miniskirt, must look like bear on bicycle
2020-09-16T20:24:21 < mawk> I hope Cracki 
2020-09-16T20:24:27 < mawk> it's a regular bike PaulFertser 
2020-09-16T20:24:32 < PaulFertser> mawk: push bike?
2020-09-16T20:24:34 < mawk> motorless bike
2020-09-16T20:24:39 < mawk> velocypède
2020-09-16T20:24:58 < PaulFertser> ok, I thought you're talking about something more fancy.
2020-09-16T20:25:07 < mawk> https://cdn.laredoute.com/products/680by680/1/b/c/1bcfc8507be61ecc63034ae4fa35e00e.jpg
2020-09-16T20:25:50 < PaulFertser> Looks like a fixed gear to me, not really regular.
2020-09-16T20:26:04 < Cracki> has no motor, that kinda regular
2020-09-16T20:26:27 < PaulFertser> I see people riding fixies here even without any brakes.
2020-09-16T20:26:41 < Cracki> like a carriage is regular when it's horseless
2020-09-16T20:26:50 < jpa-> mawk: you and your fancy engineered swimsuit
2020-09-16T20:27:04 < mawk> lol
2020-09-16T20:27:19 < Cracki> fixies might have brakes in the pedals, when you spin them backwards you hit resistance
2020-09-16T20:27:34 < PaulFertser> Yes, but that's not brakes.
2020-09-16T20:27:34 < mawk> I took the first picture for bike in google PaulFertser :(
2020-09-16T20:27:42 < Cracki> why not, it brakes
2020-09-16T20:27:53 < PaulFertser> Cracki: that's just an attempt to slow down the wheel if you manage to overpower it. By skidding it.
2020-09-16T20:28:06 < Cracki> uh?
2020-09-16T20:28:19 < PaulFertser> Cracki: you're probably thinking about regular bike, not fixed gear track racing bike.
2020-09-16T20:28:36 < Cracki> what more do you want a brake to do other than put resistance on the wheel so it slows down or stops spinning
2020-09-16T20:28:37 < PaulFertser> Where there's no freewheel at all.
2020-09-16T20:28:48 < Cracki> no, not those
2020-09-16T20:28:53 < jpa-> in fixies, pedals spin always when wheel is moving; but your feet are not as powerful as a real brake is
2020-09-16T20:28:55 < Cracki> let me find the fucking term fo rit
2020-09-16T20:29:13 < Cracki> "drum brake">
2020-09-16T20:29:15 < Cracki> ?
2020-09-16T20:29:19 < jpa-> singlespeeds usually have normal coaster/drum brake
2020-09-16T20:29:32 < Cracki> coaster brake
2020-09-16T20:29:37 < Cracki> backpedal brake?
2020-09-16T20:30:04 < Cracki> wikipedia sucks, it's all one page. google translate might have hit it.
2020-09-16T20:32:33 < Cracki> was that bicycle in the picture one where the pedals spin too when wheel spins forward, those with no slip or whatever it's called?
2020-09-16T20:32:47 < jpa-> freewheel
2020-09-16T20:33:39 < jadew> Cracki, do they make bicycles like that?
2020-09-16T20:33:55 < jpa-> fixies? sure
2020-09-16T20:34:04 < jpa-> for some crazy reason they are even quite popular
2020-09-16T20:34:08 < Cracki> in the bikes I had before I had multispeed bikes, which was a _while_ ago, you could backpedal about 1/10 of a turn and that would engage the brake in the back wheel
2020-09-16T20:34:41 < jpa-> and yes, the bike in the photo above looks to be a fixie: https://www.go-sport.com/sports/cycle/velos/velo-ville/velo-fitness-28-fixie-pegado-noir-bleu-tc-53-cm-ks-cycling-2560021.html
2020-09-16T20:35:50 < jadew> Cracki, yeah, that's how all the single speed bikes that I've ever rode worked
2020-09-16T20:36:11 < Cracki> so what's the term for a bicycle that has freewheeling and a brake engaged by the pedal (but no speeds), and one where you have no freewheeling, and the pedals are rigidly connected to the rear wheel with a chain
2020-09-16T20:36:26 < Cracki> there's a distinction and I'm not seeing that clearly
2020-09-16T20:36:30 < jpa-> Cracki: single speed bicycle
2020-09-16T20:36:40 < jpa-> but the pedals are not rigidly connected if there is a freewheel
2020-09-16T20:36:43 < Cracki> I'd consider them both single speed
2020-09-16T20:36:57 < Cracki> so single speed with/without freewheeling? just that?
2020-09-16T20:37:08 < jpa-> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fixed-gear_bicycle   https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Single-speed_bicycle   well, those are the terms
2020-09-16T20:37:29 < jpa-> "However, while most fixed-gear bicycles are technically single speed, the term single-speed generally refers to a single gear ratio bicycle with a freewheel mechanism to allow it to coast."
2020-09-16T20:37:42 < Cracki> ic
2020-09-16T20:37:52 < boddax> no brake bicycle green deal
2020-09-16T20:38:08 < jadew> is there any advantage to a fixed-gear bike?
2020-09-16T20:38:15 < jpa-> if you need the terms in finnish, they are "fiksi" and "sinkula"
2020-09-16T20:38:27 < Cracki> particulate matter from brake pads. if you want to be green, never brake.
2020-09-16T20:38:55 < jpa-> jadew: i can see that for track racing competitions they are a bit lighter; but other than that, i don't really buy the "more robust" arguments
2020-09-16T20:38:57 < Cracki> I only know fixed gear bikes from artistry, you can cycle backwards and whatnot
2020-09-16T20:39:31 < boddax> exactly Craki no more particles onlu snout blood
2020-09-16T20:39:35 < Cracki> not just circus, also skate parks
2020-09-16T20:39:50 < jadew> so they are useless
2020-09-16T20:39:52 < jpa-> ah yeah, if you want to balance on a back wheel like an unicycle
2020-09-16T20:40:48 < boddax> have mafbetic brakes
2020-09-16T20:40:55 < boddax> magnetic *
2020-09-16T20:41:08 < Cracki> fucken mafbets how dey work
2020-09-16T20:41:21 < Cracki> face braking is also an option
2020-09-16T20:41:32 < brdb> does anyone use octopart for their BOMs or is this just a cumbersome waste of time
2020-09-16T20:41:36 < boddax> future things under patent
2020-09-16T20:42:24 < boddax> seen some people braking with theyr ass
2020-09-16T20:42:41 < Cracki> clench around back wheel?
2020-09-16T20:43:27 < boddax> lol
2020-09-16T20:44:21 < boddax> smoking aSS then
2020-09-16T20:45:41 < boddax> https://i.pinimg.com/originals/19/16/31/19163117320d0a66636c47a7be9ef82f.jpg even the arrow knows
2020-09-16T20:46:05 < Cracki> now that's the kind of content few around here can appreciate
2020-09-16T20:46:22 < Cracki> a tricycle!
2020-09-16T20:46:47 < Cracki> (yes I called y'all uninterested in women)
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2020-09-16T20:47:50 < boddax> what interested then?
2020-09-16T20:48:02 < Cracki> 🤔
2020-09-16T20:48:28 < jpa-> Cracki is looking at kakinull's null end
2020-09-16T20:48:51 < Cracki> I'd say technomonks but that sounds too cool
2020-09-16T20:49:20 < jadew> boddax, I see you found the same images I did
2020-09-16T20:49:20 < boddax> kaki self destructe by his destructor in his C code
2020-09-16T20:49:50 < boddax> really you did ?
2020-09-16T20:49:53 < jpa-> jadew: oh, that explains why you've been so quiet for the past 10 minutes
2020-09-16T20:49:56 < jadew> yep, was about to post it
2020-09-16T20:50:00 < jadew> haha jpa- 
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2020-09-16T20:50:29 < jadew> I found some better ones but I thought I should step out of character and not do it this time
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2020-09-16T20:51:58 < Cracki> don't tempt the technomonks
2020-09-16T20:52:41 < kakinull> ##monks32
2020-09-16T20:53:06 < boddax> ~kakinull();
2020-09-16T20:54:37 < Cracki> scaleway just sent me an email entirely in french...
2020-09-16T20:56:23 < boddax> sure if u french
2020-09-16T20:56:51 < Cracki> they are. and they thought they could talk to a german like that.
2020-09-16T20:57:15 < Cracki> maybe nobody outside of france uses them ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
2020-09-16T20:58:28 < boddax> loyal customers
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2020-09-16T21:06:06 < Cracki> I hope my phone's radio fucks up again soon. I wanna see how much they'd charge to repair it, before reflashing the firmware magically fixes it.
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2020-09-16T21:07:52 < Steffanx> (re)post musics for kakinull https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fEbQ_mnuhjY
2020-09-16T21:08:51 < kakinull> yes
2020-09-16T21:09:02 < kakinull> steff knows good musics
2020-09-16T21:10:15 < Cracki> video of murican roads...
2020-09-16T21:10:30 < Cracki> people wonder why fornia is burning when it's literally a desert
2020-09-16T21:10:40 < kakinull> it's bush
2020-09-16T21:10:50 < Cracki> it's certainly very hot and dry
2020-09-16T21:11:13 < Cracki> largest desert cities: lancaster https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Deserts_of_California
2020-09-16T21:11:43 < Cracki> combustible on its own, in addition to all the arsonists they're locking up right now
2020-09-16T21:11:45 < kakinull> trees in that area are wildfire proof
2020-09-16T21:12:17 < Cracki> only those they make with asbestos
2020-09-16T21:12:45 < Cracki> :D https://www.readyforwildfire.org/prepare-for-wildfire/get-ready/fire-resistant-landscaping/
2020-09-16T21:14:05 < Cracki> I vaguely remember a story about california and straya... some trees were imported from one into the other, but nobody told the dupes that those things catch fire easily
2020-09-16T21:14:18 < Cracki> not sure which way this went
2020-09-16T21:14:22 < kakinull> https://www.latimes.com/local/lanow/la-me-ln-forest-study-20150119-story.html
2020-09-16T21:14:40 < Cracki> strayan eucalypts were imported into california
2020-09-16T21:14:59 < Cracki> oh yes, fornia doesn't maintain their forests
2020-09-16T21:15:10 < Cracki> evropeans do that because it's a good idea.
2020-09-16T21:16:52 < Ultrasauce> https://youtu.be/qUB12gvlS4A additional musicspam
2020-09-16T21:20:32 < antto> that's not very drum'n'bassy
2020-09-16T21:28:02 < kakinull> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7pSqk-XV2QM Kodak company figured out secret nuclear tests in 1945
2020-09-16T21:28:53 < mawk> scaleway is my hosting provider Cracki 
2020-09-16T21:29:01 < mawk> I mean their main company Online
2020-09-16T21:29:04 < mawk> pretty nice
2020-09-16T21:29:19 < Cracki> they've been nice to me so far too. heard some disappointing stories but not too many.
2020-09-16T21:31:35 < mawk> you heard my story maybe
2020-09-16T21:31:46 < mawk> one server broke and I lost my data, also they allowed police to raid me
2020-09-16T21:31:57 < mawk> but apart from these small disappointments it's fine
2020-09-16T21:31:59 < kakinull> for hosting CP
2020-09-16T21:32:03 < mawk> lol
2020-09-16T21:32:18 < mawk> don't deform the truth kakinull 
2020-09-16T21:32:31 < kakinull> technically it's the truth
2020-09-16T21:32:37 < mawk> sure
2020-09-16T21:32:40 < Cracki> we need thorium reactors now
2020-09-16T21:32:45 < mawk> but every single image host on earth is hosting CP as well
2020-09-16T21:32:49 < mawk> you can't stop people from uploading it
2020-09-16T21:32:56 < mawk> you just need to delete it when it's reported
2020-09-16T21:32:58 < mawk> which I did
2020-09-16T21:33:17 < Cracki> ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
2020-09-16T21:33:23 < specing> we need solar panels
2020-09-16T21:33:28 < Cracki> no, nuclear
2020-09-16T21:33:28 < specing> nuclear is way too expensive
2020-09-16T21:33:32 < Cracki> it's cheaper
2020-09-16T21:33:32 < specing> nuclear is way too expensive
2020-09-16T21:33:35 < specing> no
2020-09-16T21:33:37 < mawk> what
2020-09-16T21:33:38 < Cracki> and more dense
2020-09-16T21:33:42 < mawk> what are you saying specing ?¿
2020-09-16T21:33:46 < mawk> nuclear is the only solution
2020-09-16T21:33:47 < specing> look at the cost overruns of all nuclear plants in europe
2020-09-16T21:33:53 < specing> nuclear is too expensive
2020-09-16T21:33:57 < Cracki> consider the huge area you need to capture sun rays vs one nuclear reactor
2020-09-16T21:34:04 < mawk> france is all nuclear
2020-09-16T21:34:07 < mawk> almost
2020-09-16T21:34:08 < specing> its not that huge
2020-09-16T21:34:10 < mawk> electricity is cheap
2020-09-16T21:34:19 < specing> and we have enough area to do it
2020-09-16T21:34:21 < Cracki> all this renewable shit costs a lot more
2020-09-16T21:34:27 < mawk> and there have been very few innovations in fission tech
2020-09-16T21:34:30 < mawk> there's no incentive
2020-09-16T21:34:37 < mawk> if we developed it we would have cheaper more efficient reactors
2020-09-16T21:34:43 < mawk> yeah Cracki 
2020-09-16T21:34:46 < specing> also nuclear is cleaner in terms of co2 than solar panels
2020-09-16T21:34:50 < specing> too bad its too expensive
2020-09-16T21:34:53 < kakinull> olkiluoto 3 is the third most expensive building in the world
2020-09-16T21:34:55 < mawk> you would need a thousandfold increase in renewable to match what nuclear/oil is doing
2020-09-16T21:35:01 < Cracki> thorium reactors are 50 years old but nobody wants them because they're hard to dual-use
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2020-09-16T21:35:13 < specing> mawk: yes, and we need it fast
2020-09-16T21:35:34 < mawk> we just need better nuclear
2020-09-16T21:35:42 < Cracki> we can't wait for fusion
2020-09-16T21:35:49 < Cracki> we need modern fission reactors now
2020-09-16T21:35:50 < mawk> instead of an utopic 10000× increase in renewables
2020-09-16T21:35:58 < mawk> yeah
2020-09-16T21:36:00 < kakinull> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_most_expensive_buildings
2020-09-16T21:36:12 < Cracki> people are against reactor types that are WAY WAY behind the times
2020-09-16T21:36:28 < Cracki> people are against reactors that have been neglected for too long
2020-09-16T21:36:42 < mawk> yeah
2020-09-16T21:36:47 < mawk> and used for too long, more than was planned initially
2020-09-16T21:36:58 < mawk> like Fessenheim in france near germany
2020-09-16T21:36:59 < Cracki> when politics destroys the future of nuclear, maintaining reactors becomes pointless
2020-09-16T21:37:17 < kakinull> it's normal to use reactor twice the planned lfe
2020-09-16T21:37:18 < kakinull> life
2020-09-16T21:37:20 < Cracki> we would be A LOT safer if we built new modern reactors instead of whipping the dead horses we have
2020-09-16T21:37:40 < qyx> why there are no Slovakian highways listed in the most expensive building list
2020-09-16T21:37:45 < Cracki> also would allow consuming/burning the nuclear waste we have so far
2020-09-16T21:38:21 < Cracki> poland is working towards a nuclear reactor. they're all-coal, which is awful, but they have no delusions about replacing that with "renewables"
2020-09-16T21:38:33 < Cracki> slovakian highways aren't expensive
2020-09-16T21:38:52 < Cracki> try wasting as much money as went into the berlin airport
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2020-09-16T21:41:50 < kakinull> ISS: 150billion
2020-09-16T21:42:36 < antto> hai therr mr kakinull
2020-09-16T21:42:48 < antto> wut'cha doin
2020-09-16T21:43:08 < antto> surviving in ##stm32 ?
2020-09-16T21:43:14 < qyx> buying ISS
2020-09-16T21:43:20 < antto> wut's that
2020-09-16T21:43:40 < antto> Illegally Silly Substances?
2020-09-16T21:47:35 < kakinull> international space station
2020-09-16T21:47:39 < kakinull> the most expensive project
2020-09-16T21:47:46 < kakinull> *megaproject
2020-09-16T21:49:35 < Cracki> man that veritasium episode...
2020-09-16T21:53:23 < kakinull> there is isotopes from nuclear events in my bones
2020-09-16T21:55:34 < antto> kakinull, duuuuuude
2020-09-16T21:55:38 < antto> ;P~
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2020-09-16T22:15:00 < catphish> reworked my EFI, runs a little smoother now - https://paste.ubuntu.com/p/RfqVfBDxdC/ - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K-y3dsq0RuE
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2020-09-16T22:26:50 < kakinull> I expected briggs and strator
2020-09-16T22:26:57 < kakinull> found: B&S
2020-09-16T22:27:31 < Polsaker> nice
2020-09-16T22:27:50 < kakinull> you have a motorcycle throttle body there?
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2020-09-16T22:29:32 < kakinull> *briggs and stratton
2020-09-16T22:30:22 < kakinull> what it takes to drive injector?
2020-09-16T22:30:39 < kakinull> +12v source and a half bridge?
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2020-09-16T22:32:44 < kakinull> that EFI code is crazy small for it to actually run an engine
2020-09-16T22:37:37 < catphish> kakinull: yes, that's a motorcycle throttle body with integrated injector
2020-09-16T22:38:42 < kakinull> what next?
2020-09-16T22:38:48 < catphish> kakinull: the injector is driven by  12v and a simple MOSFET to switch the negative it to ground
2020-09-16T22:39:20 < kakinull> intrestings
2020-09-16T22:39:25 < catphish> the spark is a little more complicated but basically the same, 12V and an an application-specific IGBT
2020-09-16T22:39:41 < kakinull> there is no need to regulate currents and shiet?
2020-09-16T22:39:47 < kakinull> in injector
2020-09-16T22:40:07 < catphish> nope, its a high impedance injector (about 12 ohm), so it's happy to run at 12v
2020-09-16T22:40:29 < kakinull> so what's next?
2020-09-16T22:41:51 < catphish> well, the really big thing that's missing is the input from the throttle, right now it injects the same amount of fuel on every revolution, it works but if you open the throttle, you get lots of extra air in and no extra fuel, so it dies
2020-09-16T22:42:28 < catphish> so this currently commented-out line needs to be enabled, and tuned:
2020-09-16T22:42:29 < catphish> /inject_time += ADC1->DR; // Throttle position
2020-09-16T22:42:55 < catphish> it needs to inject more fuel as the throttle is opened
2020-09-16T22:43:37 < catphish> in a proper implementation there would be a "fuel map", a 2d array with throttle position on one axis and RPM on the other, i may or may not get that far :)
2020-09-16T22:44:29 < Steffanx> you mean before you burn down your garage? :P
2020-09-16T22:44:43 < Cracki> getting data out of it yet? rpm at least? then you'd have rpm over injection time, while varying injection time
2020-09-16T22:45:01 < Cracki> nice scatter plot
2020-09-16T22:45:22 < Cracki> then you can define a piecewise linear curve
2020-09-16T22:47:26 < catphish> Cracki: no, no data out yet, i *really* should implement a simple serial data dump so i can start correlating rpm, fuel, and throttle position as i tweak things
2020-09-16T22:47:44 < catphish> Steffanx: nothing's gone on fire yet :)
2020-09-16T22:48:02 < Cracki> at least hook up printing on swo, or simple usb-uart bridge to uart, if USB is too much of a chore
2020-09-16T22:48:05 < catphish> which is impressive considering the high pressure fuel and the sparks, and the general mess i'm working in
2020-09-16T22:48:23 < catphish> nucleo gives me free serial to USB :)
2020-09-16T22:48:29 < Cracki> how far away is the nearest bucket of water
2020-09-16T22:48:37 < catphish> so a 1Mbit serial will be fine
2020-09-16T22:49:01 < Steffanx> sup kakinull
2020-09-16T22:49:09 < catphish> i have an outstanding planning application to knock down this shed and replace it with a brick garage anyway
2020-09-16T22:49:39 < kakinull> that spark plug cable doesn't look too good
2020-09-16T22:50:39 < kakinull> if it's left unconnected it might start arching through the insulator
2020-09-16T22:52:12 < catphish> that doesn't concern me too much, it's not really a "production" setup :)
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2020-09-16T23:00:18 < catphish> of course an output right now would be super boring, the only data i could gather is RPM
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2020-09-16T23:03:11 < Cracki> and the values from ADC, if you use them
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2020-09-16T23:05:23 < catphish> ah yes
2020-09-16T23:05:57 < catphish> well priority #1 is to try to create a mapping from theottle position to extra fuel, will be linear to begin with
2020-09-16T23:14:58 < kakinull> when do you build a dyno?
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2020-09-16T23:23:07 < catphish> kakinull: probably never :)
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--- Day changed Thu Sep 17 2020
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2020-09-17T00:29:14 < karlp> whee, more son of man, thanks Ultrasauce 
2020-09-17T00:32:20 < karlp> catphish: I love your motor project
2020-09-17T00:33:38 < karlp> catphish: your nucleo gives you free SWO ttoo, not just serial to usb, don't forget
2020-09-17T00:35:48 < zyp> hmm
2020-09-17T00:38:31 < catphish> karlp: i've never used SWO, i'll have to look into how to receive it
2020-09-17T00:38:36 < zyp> let's say I've got a glitchy 12V and I wanna run a bluetooth mcu from that
2020-09-17T00:39:04 < catphish> zyp: you've heard of linear regulators and capacitors right?
2020-09-17T00:39:21 < zyp> and I also need this to be super compact
2020-09-17T00:40:31 < jadew> unless you got access to magic, the answer is the same :)
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2020-09-17T00:41:15 < zyp> well, duh
2020-09-17T00:41:21 < jadew> how big are the glitches?
2020-09-17T00:41:46 < ds2> switcher might deal with glitches better
2020-09-17T00:42:35 < zyp> haven't measured
2020-09-17T00:42:56 < jadew> if the glitch means power goes off, then you will need caps that can sustain power for the duration of the glitch
2020-09-17T00:43:05 < zyp> correct
2020-09-17T00:43:26 < jadew> if it's just the voltage that drops, then maybe the regulator won't be bothered by it
2020-09-17T00:43:30 < jadew> so smaller cap would be in order
2020-09-17T00:43:47 < zyp> I came across this shit earlier today, which reminded me of a project I've been wanting to do for some years: https://i.redd.it/3kvu1utxibn51.jpg
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2020-09-17T00:44:13 < ds2> how compact does it need to be?
2020-09-17T00:44:20 < ds2> and are the glitches guaranteed to happen?
2020-09-17T00:44:41 < zyp> hang on, let's see if I can find a pic
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2020-09-17T00:45:29 < Cracki> that "sandisk" looks inkjet printed
2020-09-17T00:46:12 < Cracki> what do those modules do? can't read the IC labels
2020-09-17T00:46:26 < Cracki> N52811, I can guess that
2020-09-17T00:46:33 < zyp> apparently it's a super compact bluetooth + fpga module
2020-09-17T00:46:44 < zyp> up5k and probably nrf52
2020-09-17T00:47:02 < jadew> if you can't find a solution with the cap, you could detect them and go to sleep, before you eat up all the remaining power
2020-09-17T00:47:08 < jadew> and you wake up when the glitch is over
2020-09-17T00:47:13 < zyp> I don't really care about the fpga, but the size got me thinking
2020-09-17T00:47:22 < ds2> did you paste a link?
2020-09-17T00:47:27 < jadew> but that assumes that bluetooth communication can be resumed
2020-09-17T00:47:51 < ds2> for glitches, you can also use inductors
2020-09-17T00:48:14 < zyp> anyway, what I want to do is make a dropin replacement for this: https://bin.jvnv.net/file/gwIYh.JPG https://bin.jvnv.net/file/BM6xf.JPG https://bin.jvnv.net/file/bUzAZ.JPG
2020-09-17T00:48:41 < zyp> and I don't strictly need it to be bluetooth, proprietary 2.4G is fine
2020-09-17T00:49:34 < ds2> couldn't you pile caps on the 2 legs?
2020-09-17T00:49:56 < zyp> they are contact points
2020-09-17T00:50:15 < jadew> there's lots of room for caps there
2020-09-17T00:50:42 < ds2> 0805 resistors?
2020-09-17T00:50:57 < zyp> probably, it's fairly lowtech
2020-09-17T00:50:58 < jadew> you can easily get 100 uF in there
2020-09-17T00:51:14 < ds2> i wonder if you can store more energy in an inductor
2020-09-17T00:51:17 < jadew> maybe .5 mF
2020-09-17T00:51:18 < zyp> jadew, I want more than just the caps though
2020-09-17T00:51:47 < ds2> 12V - 1.8V can multiple out to be a lot of energy
2020-09-17T00:54:32 < zyp> need a bridge rectifier or something on the input to cope with changing polarities and a couple of hbridges to drive outputs
2020-09-17T00:54:48 < zyp> I figure a SLG47105 is a compact enough solution for the latter
2020-09-17T00:55:11 < zyp> then a radio mcu plus antenna and power regulation
2020-09-17T00:56:49 < zyp> and no, glitches are not guaranteed/regular
2020-09-17T00:58:23 < qyx> if theres a bridge rect on the input, place some caps and TPS62125
2020-09-17T00:58:54 < qyx> it is a low component count, small, low Iq 17V max buck
2020-09-17T00:59:00 < qyx> sync of course
2020-09-17T00:59:34 < zyp> hmm, the higher efficiency of a buck means that the input side caps will last longer
2020-09-17T00:59:34 < qyx> it has a quick output discharge, so not much caps on the output
2020-09-17T00:59:45 < zyp> than a linear reg
2020-09-17T01:00:18 < zyp> sounds reasonable
2020-09-17T01:00:40 < ds2> couldn't you select the inductor in the buck to store the energy during a glitch?
2020-09-17T01:00:48 < qyx> no
2020-09-17T01:01:14 < ds2> why?
2020-09-17T01:01:37 < ds2> with the bridge in front of it, there should be no discharge path during the glitch period
2020-09-17T01:01:49 < qyx> I mean, probably not, it could mess with the bucks regulation loop or whatever
2020-09-17T01:01:57 < ds2> oh yes
2020-09-17T01:02:10 < ds2> but I am hoping there is a tolerance level that would allow it
2020-09-17T01:02:11 < qyx> usually there are recommended values given in the DS
2020-09-17T01:02:28 < zyp> I'd probably need another diode between the rectifier and the caps so I can source power for the hbridges before that
2020-09-17T01:04:28 < zyp> anybody wanna make a guess at what this is for? :p
2020-09-17T01:04:59 < qyx> BLE controlled car christmas lights?
2020-09-17T01:05:09 < qyx> oh no, that would not need fullbridge
2020-09-17T01:12:21 < zyp> n-scale model trains
2020-09-17T01:12:27 < zyp> the board pictured is a DCC decoder
2020-09-17T01:12:38 < zyp> http://www.sumidacrossing.org/ModelTrains/ModelTrainDCC/KatoDCCDecoders/
2020-09-17T01:20:38 < qyx> do you want to make trains communicate in a bluetooth mesh?
2020-09-17T01:21:27 < zyp> I don't care about it being bluetooth, just want better comms than DCC
2020-09-17T01:22:02 < qyx> esp32!
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2020-09-17T01:51:37 < qyx> any idea if it is possible at all to DMA TX a command byte over SPI and then DMA RX the response?
2020-09-17T01:51:55 < qyx> or could it be configured bidirectionally?
2020-09-17T01:53:19 < zyp> set up two DMA jobs of two bytes each, transmit the command and a dummy byte, receive a dummy byte and the response
2020-09-17T01:53:48 < zyp> you can point them to the same two-byte buffer, command goes into buf[0], response arrives in buf[1]
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2020-09-17T01:54:20 < qyx> are you sure?
2020-09-17T01:54:46 < qyx> hm, it may work
2020-09-17T01:55:03 < zyp> I haven't tried it, but I don't see why it wouldn't work
2020-09-17T01:55:18 < qyx> I could set auto increment on the buffer
2020-09-17T01:55:37 < qyx> preallocate ie. 1000 sample buffer of 1B command, 6B data
2020-09-17T01:55:51 < qyx> set length to 7
2020-09-17T01:56:00 < qyx> and then run it in the data ready interrupt
2020-09-17T01:57:12 < qyx> and the third job would be to copy the counter value to a buffer
2020-09-17T01:57:21 < qyx> another one
2020-09-17T01:57:52 < qyx> the only thing that remains is how to setup CS
2020-09-17T01:58:22 < qyx> mhm, deassert in a tcie interrupt
2020-09-17T01:58:27 < qyx> thank you, rubber duck
2020-09-17T01:59:09 < antto> ah, you're debugging using a rubber duck
2020-09-17T01:59:17 < antto> that's how real men do it
2020-09-17T01:59:26 < qyx> using zyp
2020-09-17T01:59:42 < antto> zyp is your rubber duck?!
2020-09-17T02:00:29 < antto> suddenly i remember that this is a very NSFW place
2020-09-17T02:00:35  * antto sneaks out
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2020-09-17T02:59:44 < bitmask> https://i.imgur.com/CBGcoZk.png
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2020-09-17T04:35:40 < jadew> https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/162679477359
2020-09-17T04:35:49 < jadew> 1 sold
2020-09-17T04:36:24 < englishman> nice
2020-09-17T04:36:28 < englishman> congrats on the purchase
2020-09-17T04:36:46 < jadew> they have cheaper ones available, if you're interested
2020-09-17T04:37:19 < englishman> thanks ive already replaced all my outlets with them
2020-09-17T04:37:26 < jadew> haha
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2020-09-17T04:45:44 < Cracki> what does that do besides be a fanout for mains electricity
2020-09-17T04:46:11 < Cracki> for that price it better be gold-pressed latinum
2020-09-17T04:46:51 < jadew> it rips off idiots
2020-09-17T04:47:04 < Cracki> excellent
2020-09-17T04:47:37 < jadew> such a good business to be in
2020-09-17T04:47:50 < Cracki> the enclosure does remind me of one of your devices
2020-09-17T04:48:19 < Cracki> maybe join the racket, make cheap shit for audiophools
2020-09-17T04:48:24 < jadew> yeah, but in this case it doesn't serve any purpose :)
2020-09-17T04:48:42 < Cracki> "feels solid" is a definite feature
2020-09-17T04:49:24 < Cracki> sell bricks with epoxy potting in titanium enclosures as speaker stands
2020-09-17T04:49:44 < jadew> as wireless noise reductors
2020-09-17T04:50:04 < jadew> they trap the EM waves inside the inner geometry
2020-09-17T04:50:14 < Cracki> like slabs of granite but futuristic
2020-09-17T04:51:11 < jadew> you could make things that actually did something, and were measurable, but had no effect on audio quality :P
2020-09-17T04:51:25 < jadew> then you could publish technical data on it that was actually true
2020-09-17T04:52:31 < jadew> > 40 dB insertion loss from 1 MHz to 5 GHz, GUARANTEED LESS NOISE!
2020-09-17T04:52:47 < Cracki> hahahahaa
2020-09-17T04:53:15 < Cracki> 5G is important
2020-09-17T04:53:37 < jadew> oh, right, better make that 6 GHz :P
2020-09-17T04:54:44 < jadew> I wish ebay had a sniping thing built in
2020-09-17T04:54:59 < jadew> I stayed awake until now only so I can bid on a thing in the last 5 seconds
2020-09-17T04:54:59 < Cracki> vote from the rooftops?
2020-09-17T04:55:28 < jadew> I don't think I'll win the auction anyway
2020-09-17T04:55:57 < jadew> had lots of bidders since several days ago, so the price is already high
2020-09-17T04:56:01 < Cracki> ah, that kinda sniping. there've been sniping programs for decades tho
2020-09-17T04:56:13 < jadew> the one I had doesn't work anymore
2020-09-17T04:56:18 < Cracki> boo
2020-09-17T04:56:27 < Cracki> greasemonkey, user script :D
2020-09-17T04:56:44 < jadew> ffs... why didn't I think of that? lol
2020-09-17T04:56:55 < jadew> that's a brilliant idea, thanks
2020-09-17T04:56:57 < jadew> I'll make one
2020-09-17T04:57:24 < Cracki> I have to update youtube-dl every few months because yt keeps changing subtly. all this new web shit is piles of amoebae
2020-09-17T04:58:48 < Cracki> my latest gm script works on worldometers.info corona plots... intercepts all script tags of the page and rewrites the javascript source of selected ones just to shift the 3/7 day averages to be phase correct
2020-09-17T04:59:01 < Cracki> debugging those things isn't all that convenient
2020-09-17T04:59:26 < jadew> what's the situation in Germany?
2020-09-17T04:59:37 < Cracki> I can get by with printlining... a bunch of pages (twadder, faceberg) fuck with the console object so you have to restore that
2020-09-17T04:59:38 < jadew> in here it seems to be stable, according to the official numbers
2020-09-17T04:59:45 < Cracki> situation is deaths near zero
2020-09-17T04:59:51 < Cracki> noise basically
2020-09-17T04:59:58 < jadew> that's nice
2020-09-17T05:00:17 < Cracki> infections were going down after the big hill, then went up a bit, now plateauing 
2020-09-17T05:00:25 < Cracki> people are fed up.
2020-09-17T05:00:32 < jadew> yep, same here
2020-09-17T05:00:56 < Cracki> they wear their fig leaves when they think strangers are looking, but fuck that when we're amongst ourselves
2020-09-17T05:01:25 < jadew> well, if the number of deaths is so low, it doesn't really make sense to wear them anyway
2020-09-17T05:01:38 < jadew> because it means there's a very low number of infections country-wide
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2020-09-17T05:01:49 < jadew> on the other hand, that's how you get more infections :)
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2020-09-17T05:03:08 < jadew> jeez... just 4
2020-09-17T05:03:12 < Cracki> https://imgur.com/a/6W8mSvm
2020-09-17T05:03:26 < Cracki> yeah the daily average has been around 3-6 for months
2020-09-17T05:03:43 < jadew> I guess at this point you can just do contact tracing and be done with it
2020-09-17T05:03:58 < jadew> or maybe those are people coming in from other countries?
2020-09-17T05:04:06 < Cracki> last time it was as high as 7 is 2 months ago
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2020-09-17T05:04:15 < Cracki> no they keep the fear up
2020-09-17T05:04:28 < Cracki> because the last few months it was only young people getting infected
2020-09-17T05:04:36 < Cracki> now old people start getting it again
2020-09-17T05:04:43 < Cracki> so we'll see in 2 weeks if deaths go up again
2020-09-17T05:05:02 < Cracki> or if they'll do what the CDC does, and admit that only 6% of deaths had no comorbidities
2020-09-17T05:05:43 < Cracki> someone who got their immune system blown away by chemo in 2019, and then caught this, obviously has no defenses and dies, but what's the cause?
2020-09-17T05:05:48 < Cracki> a combination.
2020-09-17T05:06:03 < Cracki> like old trees getting blown over by a storm.
2020-09-17T05:06:15 < jadew> lost the auction
2020-09-17T05:06:30 < Cracki> the vacation returners brought a big chunk of infections (about half) for a while
2020-09-17T05:06:44 < Cracki> now that school has started up for everyone, that is going down
2020-09-17T05:07:05 < jadew> yeah, that's a big concern here as well
2020-09-17T05:07:15 < Cracki> they don't even bother listing individual epidemics anymore.
2020-09-17T05:07:34 < Cracki> don't worry. people who have money to spend on vacations aren't old, so they're healthy
2020-09-17T05:08:04 < Cracki> I've been grabbing our CDC's numbers for months. people in their 20s have a 0.022% chance of dying from it, and so far we have 0.3% of the population infected
2020-09-17T05:08:16 < Cracki> so dying while young is a 1 in a million chance
2020-09-17T05:08:47 < jadew> *was
2020-09-17T05:09:01 < jadew> the more people get infected the better the odds are getting tho :P
2020-09-17T05:09:19 < Cracki> they even removed some deaths from the statistic. we used to have _two_ teenage deaths. now it's just one. no idea what happened.
2020-09-17T05:09:22 < jadew> also, I'm not in my 20's, so I don't care about that demographics
2020-09-17T05:10:14 < Cracki> for germans in their 40s it's still ~0.3% infection chance, and 0.2% died, making it 1:100k chance
2020-09-17T05:10:47 < jadew> are you getting vitamin D?
2020-09-17T05:10:53 < Cracki> only ones with significantly more infections are the 90+ers with 0.7%, rest is 0.2-0.4%. children under 10 are even at 0.13% infections
2020-09-17T05:10:59 < Cracki> wow lewd
2020-09-17T05:11:03 < Cracki> I'm getting rays
2020-09-17T05:11:24 < jadew> well, I'm getting that too, but still
2020-09-17T05:11:26 < Cracki> and I've taken some D in pill shape back when darkness reigned
2020-09-17T05:12:17 < jadew> I also started to work out, I figured that the more you are in shape, the better
2020-09-17T05:12:27 < Cracki> our daily reports don't list deaths by decade anymore... but they print infections by decade and week and a lot of other numbers
2020-09-17T05:12:31 < Cracki> that's true
2020-09-17T05:13:03 < Cracki> a friend weighs maybe 150-200 kg and his doc signed that he's got a risk factor of 50x
2020-09-17T05:13:19 < jadew> damn
2020-09-17T05:13:22 < Cracki> ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
2020-09-17T05:13:48 < Cracki> I think if they laid him in a hospital bed he'd have trouble breathing only from the weight on his chest
2020-09-17T05:14:52 < jadew> if they could get him inside
2020-09-17T05:15:23 < Cracki> my BMI is 30 so I could stand to lose 20-30 kg too but I'm far from his appearance
2020-09-17T05:15:39 < jadew> what's a normal BMI?
2020-09-17T05:15:43 < jadew> I don't remember mine
2020-09-17T05:15:47 < Cracki> NIH says 18-25
2020-09-17T05:15:51 < Cracki> https://www.nhlbi.nih.gov/health/educational/lose_wt/BMI/bmi-m.htm
2020-09-17T05:16:02 < Cracki> imagine my surprise, murican site knows metric
2020-09-17T05:16:10 < jadew> 22.6 for me
2020-09-17T05:16:43 < jadew> but I'm not shaped correctly
2020-09-17T05:16:56 < jadew> I have belly fat and very little muscle mass
2020-09-17T05:17:06 < Cracki> same ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
2020-09-17T05:17:31 < Cracki> some belly fat is normal
2020-09-17T05:17:36 < jadew> I was surprised about the kg too, btw
2020-09-17T05:17:53 < Cracki> and I'm told women are supposed to have some fat or else they don't ovulate
2020-09-17T05:18:12 < Cracki> I wonder if that it fat propaganda, i.e. where the threshold for that is
2020-09-17T05:19:39 < jadew> the lower threshold is when she's too skinny her bones hurt you, and the upper one is when the fat gets in the way
2020-09-17T05:19:54  * Cracki plays xylophone
2020-09-17T05:20:07 < Cracki> memento mori
2020-09-17T05:20:17  * Cracki places some fruit
2020-09-17T05:21:29 < Cracki> yeah bmi makes no sense for particularly muscular individuals, it's just a rule of thumb but how are ya gonna estimate fat percentage? calipers on a fat roll seem to work, and some electrical measurements too
2020-09-17T05:21:53 < Cracki> lol NIH has the audacity to say "metric or STANDARD"
2020-09-17T05:21:59 < Cracki> imperial is so far from standard
2020-09-17T05:22:02 < jadew> I can just look in the mirror
2020-09-17T05:22:32 < jadew> there was a time when my abs were visible, now it seems like I'd have to put in a lot of work to make that happen again
2020-09-17T05:22:44 < Cracki> starvation isn't work
2020-09-17T05:22:49 < Cracki> you can get murder abs from starving
2020-09-17T05:23:09 < jadew> well, not like that, because you can't starve if you want to build muscle mass
2020-09-17T05:23:13 < Cracki> exercise is the equivalent of torching an oil well
2020-09-17T05:24:05 < Cracki> I can go along with cardio or training for strength or speed
2020-09-17T05:25:05 < jadew> I'm off to bed - trying to fix my sleep schedule again
2020-09-17T05:25:21 < Cracki> bed rest studies are done to _approach_ the loss of muscle mass you get in zero gravity. nothing less will do.
2020-09-17T05:25:26 < Cracki> good night
2020-09-17T05:26:14 < jadew> night
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2020-09-17T05:48:25 < aandrew> hm, isn't there a gpio_set_state(io, state) type function in opencm3?
2020-09-17T05:57:28 < Cracki> gpio_mode_setup?
2020-09-17T05:57:54 < Cracki> _port_write?
2020-09-17T05:58:03 < Cracki> or just gpio_set?
2020-09-17T05:58:17 < Cracki> ah, you mean something like set/clear but parameter
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2020-09-17T06:09:27 < aandrew> Cracki: correct
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2020-09-17T10:31:46 < Steffanx> jly:  \o/
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2020-09-17T10:40:43 < Steffanx> Welcome to the ##stm32 channel
2020-09-17T10:41:38 < zyp> https://bin.jvnv.net/file/cisrH.jpg <- shit works pretty well, it seems
2020-09-17T10:42:41 < zyp> only filled the first couple of holes yesterday because the mixer shit itself during the first bucket so I had to mix it by hand
2020-09-17T10:43:00 < zyp> got a new mixer now so I'm gonna do the rest today
2020-09-17T10:46:35 < Steffanx> Why do you break your equipment all the time?
2020-09-17T10:48:14 < zyp> do I?
2020-09-17T10:48:25 < qyx> now you can sell tombstones
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2020-09-17T10:51:11 < zyp> qyx, need one?
2020-09-17T10:51:34 < qyx> I have some
2020-09-17T10:54:44 < qyx> intzeresting how does the thing dry
2020-09-17T10:59:53 < Steffanx> Lol. Zyp. I remember something about a broken drill bit.
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2020-09-17T12:02:52 < zyp> Steffanx, ah, yeah
2020-09-17T12:03:23 < zyp> regarding the mixer I guess that's just because I bought the cheapest shit I found
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2020-09-17T12:12:41 < Steffanx> :)
2020-09-17T12:13:10 < qyx> you should not use this https://images-na.ssl-images-amazon.com/images/I/61rKqZ%2BF4fL._AC_SL1396_.jpg
2020-09-17T12:15:07 < zyp> :p
2020-09-17T12:16:11 < qyx> I have something like https://www.ajtech.sk/media/product/large/miesadlo-strend-pro-pxf-01-100x600-mm-na-maltu-52964.jpeg
2020-09-17T12:16:17 < karlp> aandrew: yeah, I've occasionalyl wondered why that never made it into the api too.
2020-09-17T12:16:17 < qyx> usually using it in a bosch screwdriver
2020-09-17T12:16:50 < karlp> likely someone made arguments about "if pins is a mask, are we meant o use port regs or bsrr shits?" and then it never ever got looked at again.
2020-09-17T12:17:54 < karlp> but the gpio apis are like the oldest 2010 shit ever or something
2020-09-17T12:18:00 < qyx> 8-/16-bit parallel synchronous data
2020-09-17T12:18:02 < qyx> input/output slave interface (PSSI)
2020-09-17T12:18:05 < qyx> O_o
2020-09-17T12:21:47 < karlp> looks like it' sbeen ~unchanged since jul 2009, about as old as the code in locm3 gets.
2020-09-17T12:22:57 < zyp> qyx, yeah, I picked up this one today: https://www.biltema.no/bygg/muring/sementblandere/mikser-pcm-140-2000030976
2020-09-17T12:23:17 < zyp> little bit more expensive than the one I picked up yesterday but still cheap
2020-09-17T12:23:40 < zyp> got the one from yesterday refunded
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2020-09-17T14:19:01 < qyx> do they sell chink trash in the .no?
2020-09-17T14:21:42 < zyp> of course
2020-09-17T14:22:16 < zyp> bunch of stores that buys cheap trash and puts their own brand on it
2020-09-17T14:22:25 < zyp> biltema is a major one
2020-09-17T14:37:52 < englishman> Amazon is a major one
2020-09-17T14:38:20 < zyp> we don't have amazon here yet
2020-09-17T14:38:24 < englishman> really
2020-09-17T14:38:50 < zyp> I mean, I can order from amazon uk or amazon us or whatever
2020-09-17T14:39:00 < englishman> they already peaked here and are quickly becoming "dollar store trash for $50, delivered quickly"
2020-09-17T14:41:21 < zyp> I've used amazon jp a bit when I were there, neat to have a bunch of shit available for quick delivery
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2020-09-17T14:43:16 < zyp> good prices as well, bought some camera gear because it was cheaper than physical stores, even when deducting the VAT exempt that physical stores can do but amazon doesn't
2020-09-17T14:44:30 < zyp> might get amazon here next year or something, I read they were building a warehouse in sweden
2020-09-17T14:45:02 < zyp> and it's common to cover no/se/dk from the same warehouses
2020-09-17T14:45:27 < englishman> they were quite competitive on brand name electronics and such for a while  but not so much recently, especially as major brands spun up their own distribution
2020-09-17T14:45:40 < mawk> amazon NL just arrived
2020-09-17T14:45:45 < mawk> so they're killing the local amazon alternative we  had
2020-09-17T14:46:07 < zyp> yeah, norwegian stores is worried about the competition
2020-09-17T14:46:08 < karlp> hrm, I orderded amazon.de to .nl a while ago, what changes now?
2020-09-17T14:46:28 < zyp> karlp, closer warehouse, faster/cheaper shipping?
2020-09-17T14:46:46 < karlp> I guess, marginal improvements are still improvemetsn...
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2020-09-17T14:48:24 < zyp> I wonder if amazon is gonna do anything here to beat existing stores on shipping times
2020-09-17T14:49:08 < qyx> we have amazon, it sits on our fields
2020-09-17T14:49:13 < qyx> but they do not deliver here
2020-09-17T14:50:02 < zyp> heh
2020-09-17T14:50:07 < qyx> https://www.asb.sk/wp-content/uploads/images/fotogaleria/fotogalerie/architektura/nove_logisticke_centrum_spolocnosti_amazon_foto/01.jpg
2020-09-17T15:04:12 < qyx> I need yours spot welder
2020-09-17T15:06:18 < qyx> oh they make custom packs https://voltaplex.com/1s6p-3.6v-20.1ah-li-ion-18650-battery-pack-panasonic-b-line
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2020-09-17T15:32:46 < zyp> sure, you can borrow it if you pick it up and return it
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2020-09-17T16:44:51 < qyx> ordering nkon, I need to do some serious datalogging next week
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2020-09-17T20:23:52 < bitmask> hmmm, seems silly to place an order from mouser for just 1 item, 1qty
2020-09-17T20:23:56 < bitmask> oh well
2020-09-17T20:25:19 < bitmask> what would you guys use for usb 5V to 3.3v
2020-09-17T20:25:47 < bitmask> something cheap like a ams1117 or whatever it is?
2020-09-17T20:27:34 < Cracki> stack em for 5 amps
2020-09-17T20:28:07 < Cracki> inb4 "1117 is ancient, use X"
2020-09-17T20:28:48 < bitmask> i just need to run a f0
2020-09-17T20:29:06 < bitmask> i'll just stick with what i have
2020-09-17T20:29:13 < Cracki> https://github.com/karlp/zypsnips/blob/master/sot23-5.ldos.dongs
2020-09-17T20:29:37 < karlp> sot23 regs are normally quite a bit less power though cracki.
2020-09-17T20:29:59 < karlp> if you want more power, there's 1117 options that are at least less Iq, one tick
2020-09-17T20:30:28 < karlp> https://lcsc.com/product-detail/Low-Dropout-Regulators-LDO_Seaward-Elec-SE5120ST33-HF_C402714.html for instance
2020-09-17T20:31:50 < karlp> datasheet Iq of 150uA instead of ams1117 of 4mA....
2020-09-17T20:31:54 < bitmask> haha so my boards came back and I guess my sot223 footprint pads are set to multilayer instead of top layer.... its printed on both sides
2020-09-17T20:32:10 < bitmask> luckily it doesn't break anything
2020-09-17T20:32:48 < Cracki> it's not a bug, it's "test pads"
2020-09-17T20:33:05 < bitmask> they arent connected to anything
2020-09-17T20:33:23 < qyx> I am using tps70633 if I have to use LDO
2020-09-17T20:33:36 < qyx> much current, low iq, wow
2020-09-17T20:34:09 < qyx> offtopic, https://i.imgur.com/1b5rqT1.png I though such thing is possible without that damned MSP430
2020-09-17T20:34:21 < qyx> why is TI pushing MSP430 in every single eval board
2020-09-17T20:35:09 < karlp> yeah, I like tps706, or tp709 even if you want more than 5V input...
2020-09-17T20:35:12 < karlp> but it's 150mA...
2020-09-17T20:35:23 < karlp> it's not really a lm1117 competitor in sot223
2020-09-17T20:37:19 < qyx> 19:28 < bitmask> i just need to run a f0
2020-09-17T20:37:22 < karlp> tps706 is like, "am I cheaper? maybe? do I want to blow up from overvoltage instead of thermal overload if we connect higher voltage? why not tps709?"
2020-09-17T20:37:40 < karlp> well, he did also say he had a sot223 footprint there. (but admittedly, afterwards)
2020-09-17T20:37:47 < qyx> oh
2020-09-17T20:37:54 < qyx> noice
2020-09-17T20:38:20 < bitmask> yea, i was gonna use ams1117 but since im ordering from mouser a d-sub housing for my printer I was thinking what else i can waste money on
2020-09-17T20:45:16 < Cracki> random connectors
2020-09-17T20:45:55 < Cracki> if I had to pad an order rn, I'd pick up a variety of JST connectors because I actually kinda need 1.5mm (ZH?)
2020-09-17T20:46:11 < bitmask> I think im good on jst
2020-09-17T20:46:13 < Cracki> any tools maybe? crimp tool?
2020-09-17T20:46:29 < Cracki> soldering iron tips? flux!
2020-09-17T20:46:37 < bitmask> just spent $40 on a crimp tool, cant justify anymore, although I guess Ive been wanting a ferrule crimper
2020-09-17T20:46:47 < karlp> ferrule crimpers are rad.
2020-09-17T20:46:55 < Cracki> moar supplies for pcb etching maybe, weren't you into that
2020-09-17T20:47:09 < bitmask> yea, I just got new dry film that actually works
2020-09-17T20:47:20 < bitmask> im finishing up my spin coater for applying soldermask
2020-09-17T20:47:23 < Cracki> lacking any drill bits for pcb?
2020-09-17T20:47:29 < bitmask> nope
2020-09-17T20:47:38 < Cracki> the man that has everything
2020-09-17T20:47:41 < bitmask> ha
2020-09-17T20:48:18 < Cracki> imagine next week's your birthday. does that give you any ideas? how about the gf's birthday? anything mouser has she might like?
2020-09-17T20:48:36 < bitmask> hah def not for her
2020-09-17T20:49:48 < Cracki> if that was a food order, people would say to pad with stuff that keeps for longer (beverages)
2020-09-17T20:50:47 < Cracki> I have a list of electronics stuff somewhere I'm sure. I'm more organized with everyday stuff than stuff I need once every few months
2020-09-17T20:51:01 < Cracki> (grocery list)
2020-09-17T20:51:35 < Cracki> any projects sleeping in boxes that are blocked by lack of supplies
2020-09-17T20:51:47 < bitmask> https://www.mouser.com/ProductDetail/571-2-2308341-0
2020-09-17T20:51:59 < Cracki> one or two of my projects are blocked by the local fab lab being closed since march or so
2020-09-17T20:52:02 < bitmask> thats the guy im getting, i hope the 135 angle is what i want
2020-09-17T20:53:00 < Cracki> plus compatible innards of course
2020-09-17T20:53:38 < Cracki> not sure how normed those things are
2020-09-17T20:54:27 < bitmask> i already ordered everything I need, I just didnt realize the housing I got was 1 piece, so I already connected everything and I can't get the housing on without disconnecting all the wires, so I need a 2 piece housing
2020-09-17T20:54:34 < karlp> what are you doing with that dsub?
2020-09-17T20:54:54 < Cracki> nvm, the hole distance should be normed at least, and that's what you mount them to the shell with too
2020-09-17T20:55:18 < bitmask> its for my new printer, it connects to a pcb on the x axis motor
2020-09-17T20:55:21 < bitmask> https://i.imgur.com/CBGcoZk.png
2020-09-17T20:55:29 < karlp> is this just shrouding those wires on the back top?
2020-09-17T20:55:32 < bitmask> well the dsub connects to the electronics box
2020-09-17T20:55:39 < bitmask> but the other end is soldered to that pcb
2020-09-17T20:56:05 < bitmask> no but I will need something for that
2020-09-17T20:56:10 < bitmask> i'll probably print it
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2020-09-17T20:56:18 < Cracki> if you respin that pcb, maybe dsub on pcb too
2020-09-17T20:56:35 < bitmask> I want to keep the weight on that pcb down
2020-09-17T20:56:39 < bitmask> thats why I went with soldering
2020-09-17T20:56:46 < qyx> you know mouser has high shipping cost for orders under 50?
2020-09-17T20:56:50 < Cracki> it's moving eh
2020-09-17T20:56:52 < bitmask> i mean i guess its not really an issue but it does move up and down
2020-09-17T20:57:05 < bitmask> qyx yea its gonna be like $8
2020-09-17T20:57:18 < bitmask> for a $14 item
2020-09-17T20:57:21 < qyx> wat
2020-09-17T20:57:27 < bitmask> thats why im looking for other stuff to order
2020-09-17T20:57:41 < bitmask> i mean $8 isnt that bad
2020-09-17T20:57:49 < bitmask> and thats 2 day
2020-09-17T20:58:14 < bitmask> same price as regular ground shipping
2020-09-17T20:58:22 < qyx> https://i.imgur.com/j5imvp9.png
2020-09-17T20:58:35 < bitmask> I'm not international
2020-09-17T20:58:42 < qyx> the other option is UPS for 80€
2020-09-17T20:58:54 < qyx> hm
2020-09-17T21:01:26 < bitmask> oh crap, the angled housing wont work with the shroud I have
2020-09-17T21:01:42 < bitmask> should I go straight or not use the shroud... hmmm
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2020-09-17T21:23:51 < bitmask> what are the differences between the microchip ldo families (MCP, MIC, TC, ...)
2020-09-17T21:33:12 < MangyDog> https://www.therpf.com/forums/threads/my-working-stargate-miniature.328766/page-4#post-5114261
2020-09-17T21:34:09 < bitmask> nice
2020-09-17T21:34:46 < MangyDog> thankies
2020-09-17T21:36:07 < Cracki> what _is_ autodesk pulling with f360 rn?
2020-09-17T21:36:44 < MangyDog> massive reductions in useability
2020-09-17T21:36:44 < Cracki> you could Pay The Iron Price for inventor
2020-09-17T21:36:48 < Cracki> yay
2020-09-17T21:36:56 < MangyDog> limiting to 10 files 
2020-09-17T21:36:59 < Cracki> lolwat
2020-09-17T21:37:06 < MangyDog> no step suport
2020-09-17T21:37:11 < MangyDog> removing it
2020-09-17T21:37:15 < Cracki> oh boy
2020-09-17T21:37:19 < MangyDog> and a few other things
2020-09-17T21:37:26 < MangyDog> not soooo important to me
2020-09-17T21:37:31 < MangyDog> the 10 file limit is the biggest issue
2020-09-17T21:37:39 < MangyDog> and its not 10 projects its 10 files
2020-09-17T21:37:53 < MangyDog> so if you organise your projects with multiple subfiles
2020-09-17T21:37:57 < MangyDog> that runs up quickly
2020-09-17T21:38:12 < Cracki> export to inventor should be a good idea
2020-09-17T21:38:25 < MangyDog> im considering it
2020-09-17T21:38:32 < qyx> wait what
2020-09-17T21:38:41 < qyx> you have to pay for more?
2020-09-17T21:38:42 < MangyDog> but fuck autodesk not going to pay them for it
2020-09-17T21:38:47 < qyx> or it is a hard limit?
2020-09-17T21:38:53 < MangyDog> im still figuring out what to do tbh
2020-09-17T21:38:56 < Cracki> this looks like people at least want ipt import for freecad https://forum.freecadweb.org/viewtopic.php?t=20575
2020-09-17T21:38:58 < MangyDog> hard limit on free version
2020-09-17T21:39:15 < MangyDog> all this shit is only applying to the free version
2020-09-17T21:39:41 < MangyDog> removign things like generative design and simulations... that i get
2020-09-17T21:39:44 < MangyDog> that isnt a hobbiest thing
2020-09-17T21:39:51 < MangyDog> so no biggy
2020-09-17T21:40:15 < Cracki> that's retarded. they've been hyping their generative design and simulations support to attract free users
2020-09-17T21:40:26 < Cracki> "look you get this for free, aren't we great"
2020-09-17T21:40:31 < MangyDog> nods
2020-09-17T21:40:46 < MangyDog> they been building up the hype and eco system for the last few years
2020-09-17T21:40:50 < MangyDog> get everyone hooked into there software
2020-09-17T21:40:59 < MangyDog> then take it all away and say now you need to pay for it if you want to use it
2020-09-17T21:41:03 < MangyDog> really utterly summy move
2020-09-17T21:41:11 < Cracki> why companies have the desire to fuck up what they've built I have no idea
2020-09-17T21:41:22 < MangyDog> its basically what drug pushers do
2020-09-17T21:41:30 < Cracki> same shit happened with TeamViewer. suddenly huge numbers of free users were kicked off
2020-09-17T21:41:31 < MangyDog> just some how legal
2020-09-17T21:41:38 < Cracki> they were preparing for an IPO
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2020-09-17T21:41:57 < Cracki> it's often a short sighted business "decision"
2020-09-17T21:42:16 < Cracki> maybe new management, maybe shareholder politics
2020-09-17T21:42:21 < MangyDog> who knows
2020-09-17T21:42:29 < MangyDog> tbh i suspected something like this would happen years ago
2020-09-17T21:42:39 < MangyDog> when i first got into f360
2020-09-17T21:42:53 < MangyDog> but then after a couple of years it didnt happen and i started putting real effort into using it
2020-09-17T21:42:56 < MangyDog> learnt its tools
2020-09-17T21:42:59 < Cracki> maybe they're trying to nudge free users to throw cash at htem because they need cash for something, maybe looking to acquire something
2020-09-17T21:43:01 < MangyDog> and got pretty good with it
2020-09-17T21:43:13 < MangyDog> now i have to find something else to continue complex prokects
2020-09-17T21:43:16 < MangyDog> projects
2020-09-17T21:43:35 < MangyDog> i cant remember where i saw it but autodesks profits arent in trouble by any means
2020-09-17T21:43:36 < Cracki> more gripes with autodesk https://commercialobserver.com/2020/08/autodesks-revit-draws-ire-of-nearly-100-architecture-firms/
2020-09-17T21:43:43 < MangyDog> theyre making hand over fist
2020-09-17T21:44:34 < Cracki> they know they're in a quasi monopoly position in several market segments, and now they're capitalizing on it
2020-09-17T21:44:50 < Cracki> it just means free users have to evaluate alternatives
2020-09-17T21:44:51 < MangyDog> nods
2020-09-17T21:44:59 < MangyDog> and tbh im getting pissed off with people saying use freecad
2020-09-17T21:44:59 < boddax> mafiacad
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2020-09-17T21:45:07 < MangyDog> because freecad is fucking horrific
2020-09-17T21:45:11 < Cracki> at least their shit is good, better than what altium presents in the ecad world
2020-09-17T21:45:23 < Cracki> yeah I don't like freecad either
2020-09-17T21:45:37 < MangyDog> its not a cad tool for artists or designers
2020-09-17T21:45:41 < Cracki> its development "model" is hobbyists dicking around
2020-09-17T21:45:51 < MangyDog> its a cad tool for people who like to ego wank over open source
2020-09-17T21:45:57 < Cracki> "at least it's not openscad!" xD
2020-09-17T21:46:05 < MangyDog> yeah thats actually cancer
2020-09-17T21:46:14 < Cracki> openscad which needs seconds to minutes to compile something other tools render instantly
2020-09-17T21:46:14 < boddax> i like designspark mechanical new version many features and free
2020-09-17T21:46:26 < MangyDog> for me... kicad while not perfect... is proof open source doesnt = cancer
2020-09-17T21:46:27 < Steffanx> what no step file support MangyDog?
2020-09-17T21:46:30 < MangyDog> same with blender these days
2020-09-17T21:46:38 < MangyDog> theyre removing it steffanx
2020-09-17T21:46:45 < Steffanx> whaaat, no way.
2020-09-17T21:46:54 < Steffanx> what do i use for my CAM/machining stuff then :S
2020-09-17T21:47:00 < MangyDog> you basically dont
2020-09-17T21:47:05 < MangyDog> theyre also nerfing cam tools
2020-09-17T21:47:10 < Steffanx> daamn
2020-09-17T21:47:13 < MangyDog> but this is all only in the free version
2020-09-17T21:47:20 < zyp> better pay up
2020-09-17T21:47:24 < Steffanx> The only tool that is easy usable -_-
2020-09-17T21:47:26 < MangyDog> if you got the paid version or student version youre fine
2020-09-17T21:47:41 < MangyDog> oh and removing dfx exporting
2020-09-17T21:47:43 < MangyDog> too
2020-09-17T21:48:02 < Steffanx> What's the source of this?
2020-09-17T21:48:22 < MangyDog> autodesk announced it
2020-09-17T21:48:25 < MangyDog> yesterday
2020-09-17T21:48:28 < Cracki> what the fuck is left? almost sounds like it can't export/do anything anymore
2020-09-17T21:48:50 < MangyDog> https://www.reddit.com/r/Fusion360/ 
2020-09-17T21:48:53 < MangyDog> a few posts about it there
2020-09-17T21:48:54 < Steffanx> i see hackaday say something about it
2020-09-17T21:48:58 < boddax> export png only :))
2020-09-17T21:49:00 < MangyDog> and yeah hackaday did a post
2020-09-17T21:49:10 < MangyDog> i laser cut too
2020-09-17T21:49:12 < MangyDog> soooooooo
2020-09-17T21:49:20 < MangyDog> that open is gone from fusion too
2020-09-17T21:49:23 < MangyDog> no dfx
2020-09-17T21:49:24 < Cracki> read along https://hackaday.com/2020/09/16/autodesk-announces-major-changes-to-fusion-360-personal-use-license-terms/
2020-09-17T21:49:24 < MangyDog> export
2020-09-17T21:49:25 < Steffanx> "CAM support has been drastically cut back: no more multi-axis milling, probing, automatic tool changes, or rapid feeds, but support for 2, 2.5, and 3 axis remains" oh, i can deal with that for now.
2020-09-17T21:49:54 < Steffanx> but no step file -_-
2020-09-17T21:50:22 < Steffanx> or is that just export, id be fine with that too
2020-09-17T21:50:29 < MangyDog> i use step out of kicad to import my pcb reference files
2020-09-17T21:50:52 < MangyDog> at the moment its unsure
2020-09-17T21:50:57 < zyp> huh, norwegian pricing is way cheaper than us pricing
2020-09-17T21:51:06 < MangyDog> the press release says all step
2020-09-17T21:51:07 < zyp> apparently us pricing is $297 for a year
2020-09-17T21:51:08 < MangyDog> even importing
2020-09-17T21:51:14 < MangyDog> but some people in reddit say you can still import
2020-09-17T21:51:15 < MangyDog> so
2020-09-17T21:51:16 < MangyDog> who knows
2020-09-17T21:51:24 < zyp> norwegian pricing is 893 NOK for a year
2020-09-17T21:51:27 < MangyDog> zyp i read the half price was 400 quid
2020-09-17T21:51:30 < Steffanx> Not really a surprise this. Was the next step in crippling and making people pay
2020-09-17T21:51:37 < Steffanx> first get them hooked, than change your plans.
2020-09-17T21:51:40 < MangyDog> yeah
2020-09-17T21:51:43 < zyp> 893 NOK is like $100
2020-09-17T21:51:53 < Cracki> >Most of these changes go into effect October 1
2020-09-17T21:52:08 < Cracki> so now everyone exports their shit in the best formats and then leaves
2020-09-17T21:52:12 < MangyDog> so get started backing up your projects
2020-09-17T21:52:15 < qyx> seriously fuk whoever at TI draws such schematics https://i.imgur.com/Son0fqK.png
2020-09-17T21:52:17 < MangyDog> into multiple formats 
2020-09-17T21:52:20 < zyp> so apparently fusion 360 costs only a third if you pay in NOK rather than in USD
2020-09-17T21:52:31 < MangyDog> so you have the best chance of importing into what ever tool you migrate to with the hope of few errors
2020-09-17T21:52:35 < Cracki> DO export as ipt too. you can always pirate inventor
2020-09-17T21:52:41 < zyp> oh, wait
2020-09-17T21:52:47 < MangyDog> its in my consideration list
2020-09-17T21:52:53 < Cracki> ("always", I guess they're DRMing inventor now too)
2020-09-17T21:53:08 < MangyDog> but yes i exported as ipt step set igis umm and one other
2020-09-17T21:53:19 < Cracki> qyx, what's wrong?
2020-09-17T21:53:19 < Steffanx> yeah, i was going to say: i dont see the $100 option. or is that the tean participant option?
2020-09-17T21:53:23 < zyp> no, fuck that, the store was comparing «team participant» vs full license
2020-09-17T21:53:26 < Cracki> oh lol gnd goes up haha
2020-09-17T21:53:43 < zyp> it switched to team participant when switcing countries
2020-09-17T21:53:47 < zyp> didn't notice
2020-09-17T21:54:10 < bitmask> OH WTF
2020-09-17T21:54:11 < bitmask> grrr
2020-09-17T21:54:22 < bitmask> that one item from mouser I needed is backordered, i didnt realize
2020-09-17T21:54:28 < Steffanx> poor you
2020-09-17T21:54:30 < bitmask> SOB
2020-09-17T21:54:44 < zyp> just order it from somewhere else
2020-09-17T21:55:15 < Cracki> look at that face. that face is responsible for this. https://www.dezeen.com/2020/08/20/autodesk-ceo-andrew-anagnost-revit-architecture-software-news/
2020-09-17T21:55:19 < Steffanx> language bitmask, language
2020-09-17T21:55:26 < bitmask> hah sowwy
2020-09-17T21:55:34 < Steffanx> here have some music https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lDSYAZt0Zs8
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2020-09-17T21:57:28 < Steffanx> Did you paint those V shaped yellowish things MangyDog?
2020-09-17T21:57:30 < Steffanx> Looks pretty nice
2020-09-17T21:57:48 < qyx> zyp hurry up with your PD stuff
2020-09-17T21:57:53 < MangyDog> yeah 
2020-09-17T21:57:57 < MangyDog> thats my stargate project
2020-09-17T21:58:00 < boddax> giotto
2020-09-17T21:58:07 < MangyDog> those are the chevrons
2020-09-17T21:58:09 < zyp> qyx, what stuff?
2020-09-17T21:58:24 < Steffanx> idk anything about star gate :P
2020-09-17T21:58:28 < MangyDog> :o
2020-09-17T21:58:31 < qyx> you did something with USB3 PD sink
2020-09-17T21:58:32 < MangyDog> :o :o
2020-09-17T21:58:42 < qyx> with G0
2020-09-17T21:59:21 < zyp> I designed a board for it, still don't have any boards
2020-09-17T21:59:24 < Cracki> pd sink? does this mean there will be a module that eats usb3 and gives me a programmable voltage?
2020-09-17T21:59:43 < Cracki> that would be incredibly handy to glue on the side of various devices that have odd power supplies
2020-09-17T22:00:03 < qyx> I need to glue it to a BQ25713
2020-09-17T22:00:07 < Cracki> 9 and 12 volts would be handy
2020-09-17T22:00:28 < Cracki> we have a handheld label printer that eats 6x AAA batteries, or 9V barrel jack
2020-09-17T22:00:37 < qyx> and I wanted to know if zyp was successful with managind PD on G0 or not
2020-09-17T22:01:09 < Cracki> btw, ST has a dev kit or sth for usb pd https://www.st.com/en/evaluation-tools/eval-scs001v1.html
2020-09-17T22:01:46 < Cracki> they have a sister chip that contains a cortex M, iirc
2020-09-17T22:01:46 < MangyDog> lol there is that chip again. qyx were you talking about that chip in discord earlier under a different name?
2020-09-17T22:02:03 < Steffanx> who the fuck uses discord?
2020-09-17T22:02:20 < MangyDog> >.>
2020-09-17T22:02:31 < antto> some folks with disorders
2020-09-17T22:02:33 < zyp> qyx, haven't had time
2020-09-17T22:02:59 < Cracki> discord is for grooming autists into taking estrogen pills, and for doxxing
2020-09-17T22:02:59 < zyp> got the g0-disco
2020-09-17T22:03:21 < qyx> wut discord
2020-09-17T22:03:42 < Cracki> slack but less corporate
2020-09-17T22:03:43 < qyx> Cracki: https://www.st.com/content/st_com/en/stm32-usb-c.html I like the 3rd solution :>
2020-09-17T22:03:50 < zyp> but if all you want is usb-c to some voltage then you get dumb all in one chips
2020-09-17T22:04:03 < antto> which cord? DIS cord!
2020-09-17T22:04:09 < Cracki> 3rd pty tcpc port controller, eh
2020-09-17T22:04:15 < qyx> I want to ask for anything from 5V to 20W, the more the better
2020-09-17T22:04:26 < qyx> BQ25713 can accept anything
2020-09-17T22:05:11 < zyp> most supplies I've seen can do the same power at either 5, 9, 12, 15 or 20V
2020-09-17T22:05:35 < Cracki> can usb pd make odd voltages like 8.4 volts, in principle?
2020-09-17T22:06:13 < zyp> the spec supports it
2020-09-17T22:06:18 < Cracki> we have some sony cameras that use 8.4v to charge their power packs from it directly
2020-09-17T22:06:19 < Cracki> oh nice
2020-09-17T22:06:31 < Cracki> so I'd only have to find a PD source that supports such fractions
2020-09-17T22:06:49 < zyp> the spec supports sources both offering a few specific voltages and a variable output
2020-09-17T22:06:57 < Cracki> noice
2020-09-17T22:07:00 < MangyDog> Soooo whats the I2c element for?
2020-09-17T22:07:03 < zyp> not sure I've seen any of the latter in the wild
2020-09-17T22:07:08 < MangyDog> detected battery level data?
2020-09-17T22:07:25 < Cracki> voltage/power negotiations I'd guess
2020-09-17T22:07:30 < MangyDog> can the chip run indipendant of i2c? or is charging controls and amperage controlled by i2c?
2020-09-17T22:08:00 < Cracki> the eval board I posted uses i2c (run from a nucleo) to configure it once
2020-09-17T22:08:08 < Cracki> or multiple times. then the chip on that eval board does its thing.
2020-09-17T22:08:15 < MangyDog> hmmm
2020-09-17T22:08:18 < qyx> I would like to make the USB-C a DRP in lack of other meaningful activity
2020-09-17T22:08:31 < MangyDog> tbh looking for a usbc charging setup for a future project
2020-09-17T22:08:32 < Cracki> you can program a table of requested voltages and currents and it'll try to get that for you from the source
2020-09-17T22:08:33 < qyx> the BQ supports it
2020-09-17T22:08:58 < qyx> so it can become a PD source
2020-09-17T22:09:16 < qyx> it can buck-boos whatever it is fed to whatever it is requested
2020-09-17T22:09:24 < Cracki> oooh nice colors on those chevrons
2020-09-17T22:09:32 < MangyDog> anyway i made a joke in the discord earlier when some one posted that chip (actually simular chip not the same) and i said, I must be getting good at electronics, as right away I knew that was a power chip from Ti without looking it up :D 
2020-09-17T22:09:32 < qyx> wtf is a chevron
2020-09-17T22:09:51 < Cracki> those V things on a star gate
2020-09-17T22:10:13 < qyx> uhm, never seen a single stargate movie
2020-09-17T22:10:24 < Cracki> I think you'd wanna watch the series
2020-09-17T22:10:52 < MangyDog> https://youtu.be/ghS7LDagp3o
2020-09-17T22:10:53 < Cracki> tldr there are no gods, only superior beings
2020-09-17T22:10:54 < MangyDog> that
2020-09-17T22:12:04 < Cracki> those ring acceleration sounds... DS9 door sounds resemble stepper motor driven things
2020-09-17T22:12:23 < Cracki> (the doors don't move like that tho, probably still goblin-on-the-wall operated like in TNG)
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2020-09-17T22:53:43 < bitmask> what no clean flux do you guys use
2020-09-17T22:55:01 < Steffanx> idk, something i once bought
2020-09-17T22:55:05 < Steffanx> i hardly use it
2020-09-17T22:55:23 < bitmask> hardly use flux or hardly use no clean
2020-09-17T22:55:52 < zyp> hardly use flux
2020-09-17T22:56:05 < bitmask> whys that
2020-09-17T22:56:14 < zyp> when I need flux I generally just add new solder
2020-09-17T22:56:36 < Steffanx> Last pcb was with paste. 
2020-09-17T22:57:34 < bitmask> i see
2020-09-17T23:00:14 < Steffanx> And then i placed all 30 leds the wrong way around.. lol
2020-09-17T23:00:23 < zyp> nice
2020-09-17T23:00:54 < Steffanx> because i am fool and .. assumption is the mother of all fuck ups.
2020-09-17T23:01:04 < bitmask> haha ouch
2020-09-17T23:01:07 < qyx> so, any recommended chink CNC milling service?
2020-09-17T23:01:47 < zyp> milling what?
2020-09-17T23:01:57 < qyx> 2mm alu
2020-09-17T23:02:05 < zyp> front panels?
2020-09-17T23:02:12 < qyx> yeah
2020-09-17T23:02:35 < zyp> I've been thinking about just ordering it as a pcb
2020-09-17T23:02:47 < Steffanx> i was confused by the smd led polarity indication, so i just checked the polarity of the LED with my labpsu. Red lead, black lead. Figured out the correct orientation. All fine.
2020-09-17T23:02:58 < zyp> but let me know if you find something nice
2020-09-17T23:03:12 < Steffanx> But it didnt work. Then i noticed i had for some fucking unknown reason the black lead in the + terminal and the red lead in the - terminal. WHHYYY?
2020-09-17T23:03:12 < qyx> me too but thats 1.6mm only
2020-09-17T23:03:30 < zyp> jlcpcb has 2mm pcbs
2020-09-17T23:03:39 < qyx> $$
2020-09-17T23:03:51 < qyx> but definitely doable
2020-09-17T23:04:07 < qyx> you can even make some traces on in
2020-09-17T23:04:13 < qyx> nicely screened with labels
2020-09-17T23:04:17 < qyx> black on white pcb
2020-09-17T23:04:32 < zyp> yeah, that's what I thought
2020-09-17T23:04:42 < qyx> or the other way around
2020-09-17T23:04:47 < zyp> if you wanna be fancy you can reverse mount leds on the inside
2020-09-17T23:04:55 < Steffanx> black on white pcb is pretty nice imho
2020-09-17T23:06:06 < zyp> but is there any reason you need it to be 2mm and not 1.6mm?
2020-09-17T23:06:19 < zyp> hmm
2020-09-17T23:06:28 < qyx> yes https://bin.jvnv.net/file/lCl2H.JPG
2020-09-17T23:06:36 < Steffanx> Especially when you place your leds the wrong way around http://imgur.com/a/bPhn43F
2020-09-17T23:06:38 < zyp> $32 engineering fee is not too bad
2020-09-17T23:06:43 < qyx> I am starting to prepare for manufacturing more
2020-09-17T23:07:07 < qyx> hm, I may go with 1.6mm actually
2020-09-17T23:07:12 < qyx> I'll try probably
2020-09-17T23:07:17 < Steffanx> Such huuuge pcb with so few leds -_-
2020-09-17T23:07:23 < zyp> I mean, 2mm pcbs, $33.5 for 5, $45.7 for 100
2020-09-17T23:07:37 < zyp> so if you're making it in volume it's no big deal
2020-09-17T23:07:47 < qyx> Steffanx: what for
2020-09-17T23:08:06 < Steffanx> oh, its lightning for some "fancy" house number thingy i made to play around with my cnc
2020-09-17T23:08:07 < Steffanx> nothing fancy
2020-09-17T23:08:46 < qyx> lets guess Steffanx's address
2020-09-17T23:09:07 < Steffanx> http://imgur.com/a/LnUheCl
2020-09-17T23:09:13 < Steffanx> Try it
2020-09-17T23:09:28 < Steffanx> im not totally happy with it, but .. fuck it.
2020-09-17T23:10:00 < qyx> :D
2020-09-17T23:10:23 < qyx> few more leds
2020-09-17T23:10:37 < Steffanx> It's an ikea cutting board, with brass inlay in the wood. Then milled out around it, filled with some defuse epoxy.
2020-09-17T23:11:08 < Steffanx> nah. i think i will try to mount the pcb futher to the back.
2020-09-17T23:11:31 < Steffanx> and a few fuck ups, but.. i couldnt be bother to redo it all
2020-09-17T23:11:35 < Steffanx> *bothered
2020-09-17T23:12:23 < Steffanx> like scratching the brass by accident -_-
2020-09-17T23:12:39 < zyp> Steffanx, you know, a JBC NASE would make quick work of flipping all those leds
2020-09-17T23:12:55 < Steffanx> haha, nah thanks. i just redid it on a new pcb
2020-09-17T23:12:57 < zyp> if you buy me one I'll even do the job for you
2020-09-17T23:13:38 < Steffanx> Needs more polishing http://imgur.com/a/oZ4UbP0
2020-09-17T23:14:26 < kakinull> what you doin?
2020-09-17T23:14:49 < bitmask> do you use no clean flux wire? or rosin
2020-09-17T23:15:04 < bitmask> cored solder
2020-09-17T23:15:31 < zyp> just good old rosin core
2020-09-17T23:15:41 < kakinull> multicore
2020-09-17T23:15:44 < Steffanx> leaded solder <3
2020-09-17T23:16:00 < bitmask> def lead, just not sure if i wanna try no clean 
2020-09-17T23:16:27 < kakinull> I don't even know if my solders are no clean
2020-09-17T23:17:29 < zyp> isn't rosin no clear?
2020-09-17T23:17:35 < Steffanx> n
2020-09-17T23:17:39 < zyp> no clean*
2020-09-17T23:18:06 < zyp> I mean, it looks like shit, but it's not like it matters for anything important, right?
2020-09-17T23:19:54 < kakinull> there might be solders with strong acidity in flux
2020-09-17T23:20:04 < zyp> in rosin?
2020-09-17T23:20:56 < bitmask> im gonna get some of both and see how it differs
2020-09-17T23:22:44 < kakinull> zyp: idk
2020-09-17T23:22:49 < kakinull> in flux
2020-09-17T23:23:03 < kakinull> acid can get through oxidation
2020-09-17T23:24:45 < kakinull> what is all the crying about nikola motorcompany now?
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2020-09-17T23:46:03 < Steffanx> Its a hoax kakimir/ kakinull 
2020-09-17T23:46:37 < kakinull> is there any proof?
2020-09-17T23:46:50 < kakinull> or lack of proof?
2020-09-17T23:48:07 < karlp> heh, https://paste.jvnv.net/view/f22oD python didn't really like choices=range(0,247) :)
2020-09-17T23:48:50 < zyp> looks like it's working fine :p
2020-09-17T23:49:26 < karlp> well, yeah :)
2020-09-17T23:49:40 < karlp> was curious if it would present "range(0,247)" as the help or not ...
2020-09-17T23:50:21 < kakinull> Steffanx: hoax as tech startup sense or real hoax hoax?
2020-09-17T23:59:15 < kakinull> not delivering yet, play with the money or not delivering ever, run with the money? btw. GM bought 11% share few days ago
2020-09-17T23:59:28 < zyp> kakinull, how's your fpga trolling?
--- Day changed Fri Sep 18 2020
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2020-09-18T00:00:56 < kakinull> mainly trolling
2020-09-18T00:02:13 < kakinull> I should maybe order the parts
2020-09-18T00:02:20 -!- fluiDD [~fluiD@unaffiliated/nn7] has joined ##stm32
2020-09-18T00:05:51 < kakinull> but I don't have time to touch it for a month or two
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2020-09-18T00:06:16 < zyp> wonder if the ulx3s is gonna ship soon or if it's gonna be delayed again
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2020-09-18T00:08:40 < kakinull> don't hold your breath
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2020-09-18T00:10:22 < zyp> I'm not, shit's crowdfunded
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2020-09-18T00:10:34 < zyp> crowdfunded shit never ships on time :)
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2020-09-18T00:15:34 < kakinull> why bother
2020-09-18T00:16:07 < zyp> why what?
2020-09-18T00:16:22 < zyp> why buy one?
2020-09-18T00:16:32 < zyp> because I want one and I don't want to assemble it myself
2020-09-18T00:17:48 < kakinull> to ship in time
2020-09-18T00:17:58 < kakinull> is there any reason to hurry?
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2020-09-18T00:22:16 < zyp> kinda hard to hurry when something in your supply line is fucking up
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2020-09-18T00:53:40 < upgrdman> ee pros: im trying to understand type2 compensation networks for a buck regulator. on page 16 of https://www.ti.com/seclit/ml/slup340/slup340.pdf ... i assume you design it so omegaHF > switching frequency, and omegaZEA is as close to DC as possible??
2020-09-18T00:57:48 < upgrdman> i found an exist circuit that switches at ~40kHz, and it's omegaHF = 60kHz and omegaZEA = 400Hz
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2020-09-18T01:08:30 < qyx> https://www.mouser.sk/ProductDetail/Power-Integrations/INN3162C-H101-TL?qs=YCa%2FAAYMW03OWAX2KmV82A%3D%3D
2020-09-18T01:08:33 < qyx> nice
2020-09-18T01:08:39 < qyx> internal feedback, sync fet driver
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2020-09-18T01:18:23 < Steffann> Ohno
2020-09-18T01:19:03 < qyx> did you died?
2020-09-18T01:19:55 < karlp> qyx: same people that make the linnk switch stuff too
2020-09-18T01:20:41 < karlp> they've been on my shortlist of shit to play with in my copious spare rnd time
2020-09-18T01:22:15  * qyx trying to find a way to cast my lunex screen to an android tablet
2020-09-18T01:22:21 < qyx> maybe vnc is the solution
2020-09-18T01:22:31 < Steffann> Multiple times qyx
2020-09-18T01:23:34 < qyx> how
2020-09-18T01:24:30 < qyx> actually I would like it to behave like an another virtual display so I can drag windows to it
2020-09-18T01:25:57 < qyx> https://bbs.archlinux.org/viewtopic.php?id=180904
2020-09-18T01:25:58 < qyx> found
2020-09-18T01:28:27 < qyx> no worky
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2020-09-18T02:45:36 < Cracki> TIL: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bokashi_(horticulture)
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2020-09-18T06:19:12 < R2COM> yo
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2020-09-18T10:03:53 < qyx> nkon shipped \o/
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2020-09-18T10:07:51 < zyp> nice
2020-09-18T10:08:05 < zyp> this expanding shit is working pretty damn well: https://bin.jvnv.net/file/re5lf.jpg
2020-09-18T10:14:30 < Steffann> Heh
2020-09-18T10:48:06 < Streaker> real men use dynamite!
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2020-09-18T10:57:31 < Steffann> Blow it, Streaker  
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2020-09-18T12:02:55 < mawk> where's your x Steffann ??????
2020-09-18T12:04:53 < Steffann> Gone with the wind
2020-09-18T12:05:31 < Steffann> A man a plan a canal panama.
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2020-09-18T20:07:14 < upgrdman> the most recent comment on my yt videos... https://imgur.com/a/JnH9Tht lol
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2020-09-18T20:13:07 < Cracki> he wants to see your bob and vagene
2020-09-18T20:15:40 < upgrdman> yes
2020-09-18T20:17:09 < Cracki> lol https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Assault_on_T._J._Joseph
2020-09-18T20:26:38 < Steffanx> Haha, R2COM's favourite F-35 is grounded during lightning because issues. 
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2020-09-18T20:37:15 < boddax> whats wrong with this tft board arduino shield when i plug have white screen wont show at all examples code https://i.ibb.co/MNn76Yq/tft100.jpg
2020-09-18T20:37:30 < boddax> remain white light always
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2020-09-18T20:43:18 < karlp> well, that's detialed.
2020-09-18T20:45:45 < boddax> mmh wrong libs
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2020-09-18T20:47:59 < boddax> u seen damagedbrain ?
2020-09-18T20:48:04 < Steffanx> Yes
2020-09-18T20:48:28 < Steffanx> He's semi-ok. But couldnt be arsed to fix his server
2020-09-18T20:48:44 < boddax> thats why
2020-09-18T20:49:15 < boddax> tought passes away
2020-09-18T20:54:12 < Steffanx> Lolno
2020-09-18T20:56:26 < Steffanx> And you mean BrainDamage ;)
2020-09-18T20:56:48 < Steffanx> Which has nothing to do with damage to the brain he always said
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2020-09-18T21:04:29 < boddax> yes
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--- Day changed Sat Sep 19 2020
2020-09-19T00:01:04 < antto> i heard u liek muziks... https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xFz6fTlhbbw
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2020-09-19T01:21:33 < kakinull> how is daily innovation?
2020-09-19T01:23:18 < kakinull> https://drive.google.com/file/d/1ymoywmzaq_xDgeT0tRrLhD9iB5WlE5f4/view?usp=sharing 2pcs of NO type thermostats and a cable for external SSR control
2020-09-19T01:25:50 < Steffanx> Im still not sure what this innovation is
2020-09-19T01:26:10 < kakinull> I think I will have 2 low power fans connected to ambient temperature thermostats and 1 low power and group of 3 high power fans to external control
2020-09-19T01:26:22 < kakinull> there is none but
2020-09-19T01:26:31 < kakinull> kinda crafty
2020-09-19T01:26:53 < catphish> kakinull: i've not innovated anything worthwhile for ages :(
2020-09-19T01:27:34 < kakinull> well
2020-09-19T01:27:41 < catphish> i made an old engine run with EFI, but i'm too lazy to tune it properly
2020-09-19T01:27:41 < kakinull> true innovations are not really daily events
2020-09-19T01:28:36 < kakinull> innovating is mostly taking what has already been done and call it a new thing
2020-09-19T01:28:42 < catphish> so yesterday i discovered that while my engine idles beautifully, getting it to run faster is tricky, probably because my ignigion timing blows goats
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2020-09-19T01:30:55 < kakinull> you need tps and rpm for timing
2020-09-19T01:33:23 < catphish> i have one idea to cheat
2020-09-19T01:34:27 < kakinull> that sounds like innovating
2020-09-19T01:35:39 < catphish> what i did manage to do was produce lots of flames out of my exhaust
2020-09-19T01:37:35 < catphish> sadly because i have no idea what i'm doing i have no idea if that's from running way too rich, or igniting too late
2020-09-19T01:38:03 < kakinull> ignition timing should not be that hard to debug
2020-09-19T01:38:34 < kakinull> but the mixture needs external tool
2020-09-19T01:38:38 < kakinull> tools
2020-09-19T01:39:16 < catphish> i'll fix the ignition timing first, then see if i can trim the fuel mix better
2020-09-19T01:39:53 < kakinull> it can be somewhat tuned without external tools
2020-09-19T01:40:30 < catphish> at a fixed throttle position, trial and error will get me so far
2020-09-19T01:41:10 < kakinull> you should have a method for loading the engine
2020-09-19T01:41:28 < catphish> i'm also concerned that at one point my engine just made a loud squealing noise, i have no idea what that was, but can't be healthy
2020-09-19T01:41:35 < catphish> it's possible i broke it :)
2020-09-19T01:41:38 < kakinull> else you have just very narrow range of the rpm / tp map
2020-09-19T01:41:58 < catphish> yes indeed, i'm only testing at no load for now
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2020-09-19T01:45:54 < catphish> my plan to fix the ignition timing is simple and dumb, i now have a large 3-ohm ignition coil, it should be safe to run at a much higher duty cycle than the ~0.2 ohm coil i took from the magneto
2020-09-19T01:47:17 < catphish> so i'm going to reverse my code, instead of briefly powering the coil when i want a spark (causing it to be late), i'm instead going to just chrge the coil whenever the points are closed, as the OEM intended
2020-09-19T01:47:31 < catphish> this should mean the spark happens precisely when it's supposed to
2020-09-19T01:47:51 < catphish> and i can focus on fuel mix
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2020-09-19T01:51:46 < upgrdman> anyone here use win10's screen projection mode? (where you can use a win10 box as a wireless monitor)
2020-09-19T01:57:07 < catphish> nein
2020-09-19T02:01:17 < upgrdman> wow, transmitting shitloads of UDP packets in java15 is almost twice as fast as java8. a half-assed attempt now does >200kpps in java15 or ~120kpps in java8 on this pc.
2020-09-19T02:01:33 < upgrdman> that's with a single thread, nothing optimized
2020-09-19T02:09:21 < upgrdman> o shit, that was with my laptop unplugged and throttled. actually ~300kpps when plugged in. wow
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2020-09-19T03:04:32 < Cracki> heh
2020-09-19T03:04:55 < Cracki> a language being _the_ go-to language for big business has its upsides
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2020-09-19T03:22:56 < upgrdman> ya, just surprised at how much it improved by just upgrading the JRE
2020-09-19T03:23:24 < upgrdman> 10% would be cool. >100% is... wow
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2020-09-19T03:28:31 < Cracki> 100% 🦀
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2020-09-19T04:31:02 < upgrdman> ee bros... what's up
2020-09-19T04:32:04 < upgrdman> i got win10 display sharing working. now i can use my laptop as a third monitor for my desktop. not too bad. wish msft offered more adjustments for picture quality, but hey, it works
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2020-09-19T05:52:38 < jadew> I think people have died off at elecrow
2020-09-19T05:52:49 < jadew> I've been asking for the fucking invoice for 3 days now
2020-09-19T05:53:10 < jadew> guess I'll just use the shitty one DHL sent over
2020-09-19T05:54:32 < jadew> ah, I can't
2020-09-19T05:54:36 < jadew> it's a fucking pro-forma invoice
2020-09-19T05:54:39 < jadew> fucking idiots
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2020-09-19T06:02:08 < jly> jadew it's probably covid19
2020-09-19T06:02:48 < jadew> someone is clearly not monitoring that e-mail anymore, because they used to be super prompt in the past
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2020-09-19T08:39:06 < jadew> man... skype could be so much better
2020-09-19T08:39:15 < machinehum> What
2020-09-19T08:39:32 < machinehum> Like if it wasn't owned by an aids company
2020-09-19T08:39:34 < machinehum> ?
2020-09-19T08:39:35 < jadew> they offer that voip service, but the whole phone functionality sucks
2020-09-19T08:39:58 < jadew> no way to add phone contacts - only "invite to skype"
2020-09-19T08:40:17 < jadew> can't call someone from the phone's contacts
2020-09-19T08:40:31 < jadew> the credit you have is not always on display
2020-09-19T08:40:38 < machinehum> use a reasonable service
2020-09-19T08:40:40 < jadew> and there are stupid ads where they shouldn't be
2020-09-19T08:40:50 < jadew> machinehum, it's very reasonable (price wise)
2020-09-19T08:41:06 < machinehum> You have to pay?
2020-09-19T08:41:19 < machinehum> Like wtf are you trying to do?
2020-09-19T08:41:21 < jadew> yeah.. I'm making actual phone calls 
2020-09-19T08:41:28 < machinehum> Oh
2020-09-19T08:41:36 < machinehum> I didn't know that was still a thing
2020-09-19T08:41:55 < jadew> it is, if you don't want to get ripped off by your mobile provider
2020-09-19T08:42:08 < machinehum> Where do you live?
2020-09-19T08:42:10 < machinehum> UK
2020-09-19T08:42:14 < machinehum> calling it
2020-09-19T08:42:17 < jadew> Romania
2020-09-19T08:42:30 < jadew> calling the UK would be cheap (I think)
2020-09-19T08:42:34 < jadew> probably free
2020-09-19T08:42:44 < jadew> but if I call outside of the EU, it gets expensive
2020-09-19T08:42:52 < machinehum> That's cool btw
2020-09-19T08:42:57 < machinehum> Where you live
2020-09-19T08:43:31 < jadew> are you asking me?
2020-09-19T08:43:31 < machinehum> transylvania... is there
2020-09-19T08:43:36 < jadew> ah, where in romania?
2020-09-19T08:43:46 < machinehum> No, I was stating
2020-09-19T08:43:50 < jadew> ah, ok
2020-09-19T08:43:52 < machinehum> I think it's cool
2020-09-19T08:43:57 < jadew> yeah, Transilvania is nice, it's worth visiting
2020-09-19T08:44:08 < jadew> lots of german influences in there
2020-09-19T08:44:16 < machinehum> Well now I'm asking, you like it?
2020-09-19T08:44:24 < jadew> yeah
2020-09-19T08:44:28 < machinehum> Also what's the native lang?
2020-09-19T08:44:33 < machinehum> Nice
2020-09-19T08:44:38 < jadew> romanian
2020-09-19T08:44:52 < jadew> latin based
2020-09-19T08:45:12 < machinehum> Is it like the the netherlands? Where everyone just learns english as well?
2020-09-19T08:45:20 < jadew> yeah
2020-09-19T08:45:54 < machinehum> I met a girl from the netherlands, perfect English
2020-09-19T08:46:20 < jadew> yeah, people from western europe get a much better accent
2020-09-19T08:46:31 < jadew> it's either that, or they're actively try to sound british/american
2020-09-19T08:46:35 < machinehum> Amazing how the culture is held so well, and perfect English
2020-09-19T08:46:49 < machinehum> She talks Dutch to all her friends
2020-09-19T08:46:59 < jadew> no, I get it
2020-09-19T08:47:05 < machinehum> I don't
2020-09-19T08:47:10 < machinehum> I mean it's awesome
2020-09-19T08:47:12 < jadew> but some people try to get the accent too, when they learn english
2020-09-19T08:47:25 < jadew> personally, I don't, I like my accent
2020-09-19T08:47:25 < machinehum> english accent?
2020-09-19T08:47:41 < jadew> british or american, yeah
2020-09-19T08:47:58 < machinehum> Pre covid I was working in Ireland, amazing place
2020-09-19T08:48:09 < machinehum> I'm from west coast NA
2020-09-19T08:48:32 < machinehum> So the wether fealt right at home
2020-09-19T08:48:41 < machinehum> I went to a bar, alone
2020-09-19T08:48:46 < jadew> to me Ireland felt a bit chilly
2020-09-19T08:48:54 < machinehum> and 4 girls just sat at the table
2020-09-19T08:49:00 < machinehum> I was like what the fuckkk
2020-09-19T08:49:11 < jadew> "
2020-09-19T08:49:16 < jadew> "do you mind???"
2020-09-19T08:49:24 < machinehum> This isn't right, I'm like "ladies you want the table"
2020-09-19T08:49:42 < machinehum> They were like "you seemed lonley"
2020-09-19T08:49:56 < machinehum> Fuck, unreal we hung out for a bit
2020-09-19T08:50:07 < machinehum> Then I threw up on the floor
2020-09-19T08:50:13 < jadew> lol
2020-09-19T08:50:17 < machinehum> Huge damper
2020-09-19T08:50:54 < machinehum> Love europe
2020-09-19T08:51:04 < machinehum> Love Asia
2020-09-19T08:51:10 < machinehum> Love South America
2020-09-19T08:51:32 < machinehum> Love Africa
2020-09-19T08:51:47 < machinehum> Fuck those prisson monkey's in AUS
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2020-09-19T09:43:49 < jly> are you prepared to die for IRC
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2020-09-19T11:44:25 < antto> o hai therr jly
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2020-09-19T11:56:16 < PaulFertser> How's your cortexm'ing antto ?
2020-09-19T11:56:53 < antto> covered in dust
2020-09-19T11:57:36 < antto> i even put it in a box cuz i needed the desk free to do other (actually useful) stuff
2020-09-19T11:58:00 < PaulFertser> Oh, I just remembered today morning how I was pleased by seeing your past projects on your website and how I thought it would be cool if you finally managed to proceed with your more ambitious project.
2020-09-19T11:58:27 < antto> it's probably not gonna happen
2020-09-19T11:58:49 < PaulFertser> Why not? MCU programming isn't that hard, don't you want to develop that skill more?
2020-09-19T11:59:59 < antto> i received a little helpful hint a few days ago, so i got a reason to power up the same54_audio board again to try one more thing
2020-09-19T12:01:18 < antto> it's possible that maybe the actual I2S data out pin is fried maybe.. the thing sat on the desk for over a month, semi-populated without firmware (while i was waiting for programmer sh*t)
2020-09-19T12:01:25 < antto> .. a month with cat presence
2020-09-19T12:01:44 < antto> maybe it got zapped by a static lightning bolt
2020-09-19T12:02:36 < antto> (i'm skeptical about this theory, but it's simple to check it, imma change the pin to normal output and test if i can toggle it low/high)
2020-09-19T12:06:25 < PaulFertser> Worth testing indeed
2020-09-19T12:06:59 < PaulFertser> antto: btw, do you have a 'scope? I would probably expect some tiny "signs of life" even on a damaged pin.
2020-09-19T12:07:10 < antto> no
2020-09-19T12:07:23 < antto> but i brought it to $job and scoped it
2020-09-19T12:07:51 < antto> all other I2S signals and the SPI initialization looked "gud"
2020-09-19T12:08:06 < antto> I2S data out was flat
2020-09-19T12:09:08 < PaulFertser> Are you sure that line isn't pulled down by something that connects to it?
2020-09-19T12:09:25 < PaulFertser> You might want to cut the trace to be sure.
2020-09-19T12:09:33 < antto> yeah i'm sure i've measured the resistance from that to the power rails
2020-09-19T12:09:38 < antto> aww
2020-09-19T12:10:01 < PaulFertser> Well, probably once you give power the other side of the link enables a strong pull down, who knows.
2020-09-19T12:10:16 < PaulFertser> Cutting a trace would probably be a more reliable way to test.
2020-09-19T12:10:42 < antto> oh, well on the other side is the audio codec's I2S data input pin
2020-09-19T12:10:59 < PaulFertser> What if it's not really input or the codec is acting weird or whatever.
2020-09-19T12:11:04 < PaulFertser> Just a wild guess though
2020-09-19T12:11:44 < antto> well, the codec allows flexible pin mapping, and i think i RTFM'ed enough and i'm initializing it via SPI
2020-09-19T12:14:33 < PaulFertser> We all make mistakes though. It's often easier to check all parts individually to be able to isolate the problems one by one rather than depending on getting everything right at the same time.
2020-09-19T12:14:51 < antto> i don't wanna cut these thin tracks
2020-09-19T12:15:20 < PaulFertser> It's not like I'm suggesting cutting a DDR trace :)
2020-09-19T12:15:56 < antto> 0.2032mm is thin in my book
2020-09-19T12:16:02 < PaulFertser> antto: also you can try reconfiguring the codec in some other way. Or probably not configuring it at all if it doesn't enable any outputs by default.
2020-09-19T12:16:18 < antto> configuration is needed
2020-09-19T12:16:35 < antto> iirc, it allows input/output to be asynchronous
2020-09-19T12:16:49 < PaulFertser> Is needed for functionality, sure. But probably not for scoping the I2S data line output from the MCU.
2020-09-19T12:16:54 < antto> so you could use different sampling rates (clocks) for the ADCs and DACs
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2020-09-19T12:17:23 < antto> but if you don't need that, you can make the ADC's use the signals of rhe DAC, or vise-versa (for easier routing)
2020-09-19T12:18:12 < antto> true, i think by default the codec won't work untill you set it up over SPI
2020-09-19T12:18:25 < antto> so that's probably another thing to try
2020-09-19T12:18:36 < antto> i'll fiddle with it.. some day
2020-09-19T12:19:05 < antto> i also didn't actually finish my svd parser
2020-09-19T12:19:31 < antto> it's not even in a semi-usable state yet
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2020-09-19T13:17:20 < catphish> i have a weird question - why does the green LED on my nucleo board light when reset is held?
2020-09-19T13:17:57 < catphish> i would have assumed that under reset, PA5 (connected to the LED) would be hi-z
2020-09-19T13:23:46 < catphish> schematic: https://i.imgur.com/4q0vvTi.png
2020-09-19T13:24:38 < antto> is that a confusing schematic or wat
2020-09-19T13:24:47 < antto> that led seems to be connected to many things
2020-09-19T13:25:11 < mawk> yeah you need to tell us which solder bridges are done and which are cut catphish 
2020-09-19T13:25:16 < catphish> most are just connectors
2020-09-19T13:25:42 < mawk> SB42 is done and SB29 is cut ?
2020-09-19T13:26:53 < catphish> SB42 is closed, SB29 is open, yes
2020-09-19T13:27:27 < mawk> ok
2020-09-19T13:27:37 < mawk> well I would expect hi-Z too, but apparently it's not the case
2020-09-19T13:27:43 < mawk> try to probe it
2020-09-19T13:28:12 < antto> measure resistance to power railz or output pinz
2020-09-19T13:28:21 < antto> (when switched off)
2020-09-19T13:28:28 < catphish> i have another board that does not exhibit the same behaviour, maybe it's broken
2020-09-19T13:28:43 < antto> ur LED may have become self-aware
2020-09-19T13:28:50 < antto> my cat did
2020-09-19T13:29:28 < antto> she knows it's her in the mirror but she's generally bored of herself and doesn't wanna watch
2020-09-19T13:29:31 < catphish> pretty sure this is a fault, identical nucleo exhibits the expected behaviour
2020-09-19T13:30:28 < catphish> and the one with the oddity did have a nasty 40kV accident last week
2020-09-19T13:30:36 < antto> ouch
2020-09-19T13:30:48 < antto> what's the voltage that happens to be driving the LED?
2020-09-19T13:31:13 < antto> ..on SB21
2020-09-19T13:31:15 < mawk> 40kV
2020-09-19T13:31:18 < mawk> you're not following antto 
2020-09-19T13:31:59 < antto> you could say muh coffee levels are pretty low still
2020-09-19T13:32:02 < antto> wut did i miss?
2020-09-19T13:32:22 < catphish> that pin is at 2.93v
2020-09-19T13:32:25 < catphish> under reset
2020-09-19T13:32:41 < catphish> (with the LED attached)
2020-09-19T13:32:43 < mawk> I'm joking antto 
2020-09-19T13:32:49 < mawk> that's not a very CMOS friendly voltage level catphish 
2020-09-19T13:32:51 < antto> mawk, HOW DARE U
2020-09-19T13:33:03 < mawk> well it's in the HIGH cmos region so yeah I guess it's fine
2020-09-19T13:33:08 < mawk> but it's still strange
2020-09-19T13:33:27 < antto> maybe that gives a clue
2020-09-19T13:33:50 < antto> could be an "almost short"
2020-09-19T13:36:25 < mawk> [2.2; 3.3] is HIGH, [0; 1.1] is LOW; so it's not a forbidden voltage level
2020-09-19T13:53:38 < Steffanx> FORBIDDEN.
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2020-09-19T13:59:16 < jly> Steffanx: you haven't been tight since your brother fucked you in 3rd grade
2020-09-19T14:03:49 < Steffanx> Who the fuck do you think you are that you can reveal such intimate secret jly?
2020-09-19T14:04:19 < zyp> jly is Steffanx' brother?
2020-09-19T14:04:37 < jly> Steffanx: Yeah. I'm surprised you're still around. I was always hoping you'd die off and they got someone in here that knew what the hell they were doing. Instead, you're just hanging around like the doo-wop dago you are.
2020-09-19T14:06:05 < Steffanx> Wanna take my place jly? 
2020-09-19T14:06:28 < Steffanx> I have a feeling you are able to manage this bunch of lunatics
2020-09-19T14:06:56 < jly> You don't just come in and insult the man in his own shop! You just don't do that. What happens if you meet some stranger? You get the wrong one, he's gonna blow your gook head right off!
2020-09-19T14:08:03 < Steffanx> Got some new dudz is should try mr jly?
2020-09-19T14:08:37 < Steffanx> Nice bag, nice shoes?
2020-09-19T14:09:12 < jly> A Mexican, a Jew, and a colored guy go into a bar. The bartender looks up and says, "Get the fuck out of here."
2020-09-19T14:10:37 < Steffanx> So how is mr jly today?
2020-09-19T14:12:05 < jly> safu
2020-09-19T14:12:25 < Steffanx> Whats new?
2020-09-19T14:16:33 < jly> VICtoria in the hole
2020-09-19T14:16:48 < jly> in completely non-technical terms "cunt's fucked"
2020-09-19T14:17:02 < Steffanx> Did you know we had you declared dead already mr jly?
2020-09-19T14:17:15 < jly> correct
2020-09-19T14:18:06 < antto> bruh..
2020-09-19T14:19:19 < antto> industrial-grade windshield-whipers should be a minimum requirement for being in ##stm32
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2020-09-19T14:20:47 < jly> hahaha
2020-09-19T14:21:56 < antto> PaulFertser, for now i'm more wurking on this: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eP_c72IjUOY
2020-09-19T14:21:59 < Steffanx> I wont stop you get some
2020-09-19T14:23:04 < antto> last batch then OSHW
2020-09-19T14:23:31 < antto> gitlab project with instructions is gonna b public
2020-09-19T14:24:07 < antto> i should also get back to my lousy driver's loicens attempts
2020-09-19T14:24:46 < antto> so.. korteggsing is gonna be put somewhere further into the calendar
2020-09-19T14:24:47 < Steffanx> Where is your ESD gear antto?
2020-09-19T14:25:09 < antto> wut gear?
2020-09-19T14:26:20 < jly> I had to do a pre surgery covid test and ISOLATION
2020-09-19T14:26:31 < jly> less than 12 hours later the cunts gave me my result back
2020-09-19T14:26:38 < Steffanx> Explaind a lot...
2020-09-19T14:26:41 < Steffanx> S
2020-09-19T14:26:43 < jly> better than the 3 day wait last time
2020-09-19T14:27:28 < jly> i think after all this is over and done with, we should get to swing a mallet into the premier of VIC australia's chinese loving communist balls
2020-09-19T14:27:34 < Steffanx> SAFU.
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2020-09-19T14:28:05 < Steffanx> Currently its mainly us fucking up, not the Chinese 
2020-09-19T14:28:52 < antto> jly, what's going on there in .au and the corizzle-vizzle?
2020-09-19T14:29:09 < antto> gubbermint doing dumb things?
2020-09-19T14:29:15 < jly> basically there is a state in australia called victoria. i live there
2020-09-19T14:29:22 < antto> hm
2020-09-19T14:29:26 < jly> the premier of the state has completely fucked up everything
2020-09-19T14:29:38 < jly> and turned into some fucking muppet
2020-09-19T14:29:41 < Steffanx> They should evacuate everyone but jly from VIC
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2020-09-19T14:29:49 < jly> i'd be happy with that.
2020-09-19T14:29:53 < antto> seems there's a world pandemic of intensive stupidity of the gubbermints
2020-09-19T14:29:57 < Steffanx> Its unsafr there for everyonr
2020-09-19T14:29:58 < Steffanx> E
2020-09-19T14:30:06 < Steffanx> Lol. So many typos
2020-09-19T14:30:12 < jly> antto: quite possibly
2020-09-19T14:30:32 < antto> at least corizzle-vizzle is actually not a problem here
2020-09-19T14:30:43 < jly> Steffanx: it's looking much better now the cause if this mess was verified
2020-09-19T14:30:49 < Steffanx> Did you make yourself a Hand of Nod in the mean time?
2020-09-19T14:31:05 < antto> we've had 70+ days of nation-wide protests, and the corizzle-vizzle stats are basically not showing any change
2020-09-19T14:31:05 < jly> 500 old fucks will die with 6 months of normal life in them left without covid
2020-09-19T14:31:18 < antto> that shuts their mouths up real good
2020-09-19T14:31:22 < jly> what cuntry are you in antto 
2020-09-19T14:31:26 < antto> .bg
2020-09-19T14:32:00 < antto> they still use "pandemic measures" as an excuse to do all kinds of evil things tho
2020-09-19T14:32:14 < Steffanx> Like what?
2020-09-19T14:32:34 < antto> like, sneak in a completely "new" constitution
2020-09-19T14:32:59 < antto> as a response to the protests which are telling them "go the f*ck away"
2020-09-19T14:33:21 < Steffanx> Can you make me a silo jly?
2020-09-19T14:34:27 < jly> our base is under attack
2020-09-19T14:34:51 < Steffanx> Exactly 
2020-09-19T14:36:15 < antto> jly, do you have many heavy cases in the hospitals there? coz we got on average not more than 50 people in intensive corizzle-vizzle care in the whole country (which is supposedly 7M population)
2020-09-19T14:36:41 < Steffanx> Most of them died straight away?
2020-09-19T14:36:47 < antto> we didn't have a peak.. there were no trucks of dead bodies
2020-09-19T14:37:01 < jly> the whole thing is a dumpster fire
2020-09-19T14:38:32 < Steffanx> Dont catch burn yourself then, mr jly
2020-09-19T14:38:47 < antto> there are a few proper doctors here who say that the PCR tests are absolutely useless by design, and that masks are absolutely useless (can only cause more problems)
2020-09-19T14:38:58 < antto> but they are not allowed to speak loudly
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2020-09-19T14:39:27 < Steffanx> Absolutely useless...
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2020-09-19T14:39:41 < jly> i've caught a few minor colds, not really any different any other year
2020-09-19T14:39:52 < mawk> antto: in france a proper doctor is saying the virus is manmade
2020-09-19T14:40:21 < mawk> and that proper doctor is a nobel prize recipient for discovering AIDS
2020-09-19T14:40:24 < mawk> but as you see he turned batshit crazy
2020-09-19T14:40:31 < mawk> tried to prove DNA teleportation over telephone line
2020-09-19T14:40:47 < antto> also, apparently there's been a pig-flu virus a bunch of years ago (i faintly remember it) that has been MUCH more deadly
2020-09-19T14:40:51 < mawk> so, doctor diploma isn't an automatic authority card especially when it goes against what colleagues say
2020-09-19T14:41:20 < antto> i remember it was on the news all day long but i don't remember any similar global reaction like now
2020-09-19T14:41:31 < Steffanx> Lolol mawk
2020-09-19T14:41:46 < antto> shutting down cities, killing business, making people behave in a stupid way
2020-09-19T14:41:57 < mawk> less infectious probably antto 
2020-09-19T14:42:02 < Steffanx> People always behave weird
2020-09-19T14:42:16 < antto> no i mean
2020-09-19T14:43:01 < antto> kids in school have to wear masks in the corridors of the school, they gotta move on the right-side of the corridors (like car traffic)
2020-09-19T14:43:17 < antto> in the class room they may take the masks off
2020-09-19T14:44:26 < antto> if a kid sneezes - it gets put into a special "isolation" room and the parents are phoned to come and pick it up
2020-09-19T14:44:49 < antto> some even suggested there should be a 500euro fine for the parents if they don't pick it up within 1 hour
2020-09-19T14:44:59 < specing> looool
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2020-09-19T14:45:35 < specing> I've been using the same mask since march :D
2020-09-19T14:46:00 < antto> in the beginning of the pandemic here, the gubbermint made a 2500 euro fine for "violating pandemic rules" or some such
2020-09-19T14:46:21 < antto> specing, i bought 2 of the cheapest masks in march or april
2020-09-19T14:46:47 < antto> the first one got very torn fuzzy due to my beard, i recently started wearing the 2nd one
2020-09-19T14:46:58 < specing> antto: it's not even a mask, its a very thin ski face covering that gets washed once in a blue moon
2020-09-19T14:47:11 < antto> washing? pls
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2020-09-19T14:47:37 < specing> yeah...
2020-09-19T14:48:45 < antto> https://4.imimg.com/data4/UH/SE/MY-15641972/disposable-face-mask-500x500.jpg
2020-09-19T14:48:56 < antto> this kind, it's "single-use" technically
2020-09-19T14:49:21 < antto> i'm using it just for 1 pandemic, so i call that "one use" ;P~
2020-09-19T14:49:32 < antto> >:)
2020-09-19T14:49:43 < Steffanx> Mission Accomplished,thanks jly
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2020-09-19T14:51:57 < jly> hahaha
2020-09-19T14:52:15 < mawk> how many jews does it take to change a lightbulb jly ?
2020-09-19T14:52:33 < jly> idk i'd prefer to put them in the oven
2020-09-19T14:52:44 < jly> isn't that what happens?
2020-09-19T14:52:58 < antto> how do u cook them?
2020-09-19T14:53:07 < jly> with seasoning 
2020-09-19T14:53:17 < antto> of course, but what kinds
2020-09-19T14:53:28 < jly> seasoning type 1488
2020-09-19T14:53:37 < Steffanx> Bats.
2020-09-19T14:53:38 < jly> like the kfc secret recipe
2020-09-19T14:53:38 < antto> hm, i don't know this one
2020-09-19T14:53:50 < antto> ah, sikrit sauce
2020-09-19T14:53:59 < jly> the colonel was just a nigger hating texan
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2020-09-19T14:54:10 < jly> he devised the recipe to kill the poor blackies 
2020-09-19T14:54:22 < jly> do you know?
2020-09-19T14:54:29 < antto> nope
2020-09-19T14:54:44 < antto> i've seen a few real black people here, mostly in the summer
2020-09-19T14:54:56 < jly> yeah i get all my intelligence off reddit
2020-09-19T14:54:57 < mawk> how did you react when you saw them?
2020-09-19T14:55:07 < jly> have you ever seen the dirty dozen
2020-09-19T14:55:31 < jly> do you remember that scene where the nazi spots the nigger in disguise, the look on his face?
2020-09-19T14:55:43 < mawk> he was happy?
2020-09-19T14:55:52 < jly> he looked very angry 
2020-09-19T14:55:57 < antto> mawk, due to listening to much "rap" music as a kid, my instant reaction is to think about saying "yoo n***a"
2020-09-19T14:56:08 < mawk> lol
2020-09-19T14:56:15 < antto> not in a bad way
2020-09-19T14:56:20 < antto> of course, i don't say it
2020-09-19T14:56:23 < mawk> why are you putting stars
2020-09-19T14:56:25 < mawk> say it completely
2020-09-19T14:56:30 < mawk> don't censor yourself
2020-09-19T14:56:36 < mawk> repeat after me: "yoo nigga"
2020-09-19T14:56:52 < antto> pls
2020-09-19T14:57:30 < antto> anyway.. i guess my reaction has been a bit of more intensive eyeballing
2020-09-19T14:57:45 < mawk> jauging their saillant muscles and perfect bodies ?
2020-09-19T14:57:52 < mawk> while salivating?
2020-09-19T14:58:08 < antto> but once i walked across a one in the night
2020-09-19T14:58:19 < antto> it was just walking white clothes and no head
2020-09-19T14:58:24 < mawk> lol
2020-09-19T14:58:33 < antto> that scared me at first until i figured it must be a black guy
2020-09-19T14:58:34 < jly> ye the way they throw that fucking garbage together you'd expect they'd want to be called NIGGERS
2020-09-19T14:58:46 < jly> just makes absolutely no sense 
2020-09-19T14:58:49 < mawk> lol
2020-09-19T14:59:04 < mawk> you being allowed or not to say "nigger" is depending on the chromaticity of your skin
2020-09-19T14:59:08 < mawk> I wonder if there is a precise cutoff value
2020-09-19T14:59:21 < antto> jly, well i've learnt that wurd from all the movies and "hip-hop" sh*t
2020-09-19T14:59:25 < mawk> under L = 0.3 you're allowed to say it
2020-09-19T15:00:03 < antto> why is this 6ix9ine clown allowed to say it?
2020-09-19T15:00:06 < antto> or is he
2020-09-19T15:01:00 < mawk> probably not allowed
2020-09-19T15:01:02 < mawk> he's a mexican
2020-09-19T15:01:33 < antto> yeah, doesn't matter if he's mexican, he ain't very.. black
2020-09-19T15:01:38 < jly> antto: nobody else I knows says it either, just that toilet music
2020-09-19T15:01:54 < antto> jly, so we are getting very biased here then
2020-09-19T15:02:03 < jly> oh well
2020-09-19T15:02:09 < antto> thanks to the "art" that comes from $west
2020-09-19T15:02:25 < antto> maybe we are only getting the worse kind of $art
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2020-09-19T18:59:33 < catphish> my engine project has been canceled due to "snapped starter pull cord" :)
2020-09-19T19:01:37 < Steffanx> Time to add a starter motor
2020-09-19T19:13:28 < kakinull> I hear excuses
2020-09-19T19:14:13 < kakinull> you need to build briggs and stratton V8
2020-09-19T19:14:26 < Steffanx> hi kakinull what are you up to.. im still nt sure what this you have been blogging about is
2020-09-19T19:14:57 < kakinull> I will have the best 19" rack of this channel.
2020-09-19T19:15:01 < Steffanx> i see
2020-09-19T19:15:08 < kakinull> not the contents of the rack
2020-09-19T19:15:12 < kakinull> just the rack
2020-09-19T19:16:11 < Steffanx> what will be in the rack?
2020-09-19T19:16:20 < Steffanx> Your 386 pc?
2020-09-19T19:18:36 < kakinull> microdik
2020-09-19T19:18:44 < kakinull> modem - usb3
2020-09-19T19:18:54 < kakinull> 2 optical converters
2020-09-19T19:18:56 < kakinull> nas
2020-09-19T19:19:00 < kakinull> nvr
2020-09-19T19:19:03 < kakinull> ups
2020-09-19T19:20:38 < Steffanx> nvr
2020-09-19T19:20:41 < Steffanx> for the wildlife?
2020-09-19T19:22:26 < kakinull> kinda
2020-09-19T19:22:37 < kakinull> mostly to monitor fellines
2020-09-19T19:23:06 < kakinull> secondary use is to monitor suspisious activity and thiefs
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2020-09-19T20:21:37 < zyp> no, I have the best rack
2020-09-19T20:21:59 < zyp> mine folds into the wall, doesn't get better than that
2020-09-19T20:33:35  * Steffanx still wonders if you guys are talking about your men tits or not.
2020-09-19T20:36:41 < Steffanx> > rack
2020-09-19T20:49:44 < catphish> Steffanx: starter motor would be cool!
2020-09-19T20:50:00 < catphish> i got a bit distracted, bought a house on a whim today :|
2020-09-19T20:51:20 < Steffanx> uh what?
2020-09-19T20:59:24 < catphish> someone emailed to say they were selling their house, looked around it, i bought it, mildly insane, but it happens to be a house i always wanted
2020-09-19T21:00:03 < catphish> there's still the small matter of lots of paperwork :)
2020-09-19T21:00:10 < antto> foldable tits?
2020-09-19T21:00:38 < antto> i had enough ##stm32 for today
2020-09-19T21:02:43 < specing> lol
2020-09-19T21:03:08 < Steffanx> Are you like a billionaire after you sold your company catphish ?
2020-09-19T21:03:19 < Steffanx> Your current house is so cool. -_-
2020-09-19T21:11:14 < englishman> https://i.redd.it/k9h2poiz1zn51.jpg
2020-09-19T21:11:18 < englishman> my server room
2020-09-19T21:11:21 < englishman> w/ racks
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2020-09-19T21:17:29 < catphish> Steffanx: i am not a billionare, no :'(
2020-09-19T21:18:53 < catphish> Steffanx: my current house is cool, the new one is actually extremely similar, main difference is detached, so it's not that crazy a thing to be doing :)
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2020-09-19T21:37:55 < boddax> all trillionaire says im not billionaire
2020-09-19T21:39:17 < Steffanx> Hah
2020-09-19T21:39:25 < Steffanx> Boddax knows
2020-09-19T21:41:29 < Cracki> well well well bitcoin hasn't moved much over the past year
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2020-09-19T21:49:05 < boddax> even same chip ili9341 those gunchina tft have lots ballsbreak this arduino+tft different libs some has fonts support wont work ..even with nucleo board  same thing ?
2020-09-19T21:53:47 < Cracki> who's gonna parse that sentence
2020-09-19T22:05:17 < boddax> :=))  i mean bought 2 different brand 2.8'' tft display same chipset but they dont work with common adafruit libs
2020-09-19T22:06:36 < boddax> adafruit_gfx ..i.m editing all the headers i guess different pin assignment
2020-09-19T22:07:30 < boddax> in short to use adafruit libs need to buy the original one
2020-09-19T22:17:09 < Cracki> their libs tend to work with other stuff too
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2020-09-19T23:21:29 < Steffanx> whmm, who is into photoshop here?
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2020-09-19T23:23:25 < zyp> you need to touch up your tinder pics?
2020-09-19T23:23:29 < Steffanx> or maybe inkscape, i should google more
2020-09-19T23:24:26 < Steffanx> nah, i want something "simple" . Just some "stroking"  and have the colour automagically change while i do that. 
2020-09-19T23:27:14 < Steffanx> how hard can it be
2020-09-19T23:31:27 < qyx> inkscape here, but idk
2020-09-19T23:32:21 < qyx> on a 4L smps, do you keep power on inner layers?
2020-09-19T23:32:45 < zyp> in what sense?
2020-09-19T23:33:18 < qyx> imagine 2 half bridges + inductors with some power rail mosfet switches
2020-09-19T23:33:25 < qyx> a bunch of current sensing resistors
2020-09-19T23:33:35 < zyp> I usually do ground pours on outer layers around power section for heat dissipation
2020-09-19T23:33:41 < qyx> gate drive signals, a LED signal across the thing, etc
2020-09-19T23:34:30 < qyx> the question is if the power signals shjould be on top/bottom (becvause there are component pads)
2020-09-19T23:34:48 < qyx> and then you have to put the rest in inner layers
2020-09-19T23:34:48 < zyp> they should be wherever is convenient for the design
2020-09-19T23:34:53 < qyx> or the other way around
2020-09-19T23:35:18 < zyp> is this board like smps only? where is the power rails going?
2020-09-19T23:35:40 < qyx> lets say the smps part is near the front panel connectors
2020-09-19T23:35:52 < qyx> but eg. battery pgnd must go across the bnoard
2020-09-19T23:36:19 < qyx> the rehst is only some stm32, baxkplane connections/protections and such
2020-09-19T23:36:27 < qyx> fuk android kbd
2020-09-19T23:37:17 < qyx> now I know why is everyone using atuo corrwct
2020-09-19T23:37:41 < zyp> do you only have smt components on one side?
2020-09-19T23:38:02 < jadew> how can you stream something live fast?
2020-09-19T23:38:27 < jadew> youtube has a 24 hour waiting period...
2020-09-19T23:38:48 < zyp> if so, you won't have any component pads in bottom layer, so you can essentially treat the bottom layer as interchangeable with any of the inner layers
2020-09-19T23:39:17 < mawk> on youtube jadew 
2020-09-19T23:39:19 < mawk> click the button → done
2020-09-19T23:39:23 < mawk> for live?
2020-09-19T23:39:25 < mawk> you already have a yt account
2020-09-19T23:40:13 < zyp> qyx, you might have different copper thicknesses on outer and inner layers
2020-09-19T23:40:45 < zyp> if you wanna run narrow power traces, they should probably be on the layer with the thickest copper
2020-09-19T23:40:45 < jadew> mawk, yeah, if you want to go live you have to verify your account and then wait 24 hours
2020-09-19T23:40:58 < mawk> ah
2020-09-19T23:40:58 < zyp> for huge polygons it doesn't matter
2020-09-19T23:41:41 < zyp> I mean, matters less
2020-09-19T23:42:08 < qyx> yeah I considered that
2020-09-19T23:42:34 < qyx> I have to check what are the acvtual layer thicknesses at jlcpocb
2020-09-19T23:43:10 < qyx> I would like components to be on a single side
2020-09-19T23:43:21 < qyx> but theres only 2.1mm on the vottom
2020-09-19T23:43:26 < qyx> so no inductora
2020-09-19T23:43:40 < qyx> and there are some 18650 on top
2020-09-19T23:43:48 < zyp> at jlcpcb, outer is 35 or 75, inner is 17
2020-09-19T23:44:17 < qyx> so this explains at least which is better for high power
2020-09-19T23:44:46 < qyx> I considered a heat spreader from the bottom too
2020-09-19T23:44:51 < qyx> 2mm alu plate
2020-09-19T23:45:08 < zyp> why are you doing 4L at all?
2020-09-19T23:45:23 < qyx> because it wont fit on 2L
2020-09-19T23:45:35 < qyx> have you seen that crowded board? :>
2020-09-19T23:45:38 < zyp> no
2020-09-19T23:45:51 < qyx> you sait it is crowded
2020-09-19T23:46:07 < zyp> oh, I thought you meant something you posted recently
2020-09-19T23:46:12 < zyp> all your boards are crowded :p
2020-09-19T23:46:39 < qyx> http://qyx.krtko.org/wiki/_media/tsp-2c-nwr2u/tsp-2c-nwr2u-3d-front-0.1.0.png?cache=
2020-09-19T23:46:42 < qyx> thjis one
2020-09-19T23:46:48 < zyp> like, I bet your design process is to keep adding parts until you run out of room :p
2020-09-19T23:47:02 < zyp> I don't see any batteries
2020-09-19T23:48:05 < qyx> no, thats not exactly what I am doing now, the new one will have 6x 18650 integrated
2020-09-19T23:48:42 < qyx> for a 3x3HP
2020-09-19T23:50:12 < zyp> I thought about something similar for my cluster in a box
2020-09-19T23:51:24 < zyp> 16 node cards plus one switch card of 4HP each is 68HP, leaving 2x8HP for power cards
2020-09-19T23:52:10 < karlp> englishman: wat on earth is the context for old mainframe/minis with swimsuits?!
2020-09-19T23:52:16 < zyp> and if I'm going to make the cards 30cm deep or something, I guess I could fit quite a few 18650 cells
2020-09-19T23:52:20 < qyx> yeah I want exactly that
2020-09-19T23:52:31 < qyx> e0cm deep
2020-09-19T23:52:34 < qyx> ?
2020-09-19T23:53:03 < zyp> well, yeah, if I'm going to fit like four RK3399-SOMs on each node card, I need enough area :p
2020-09-19T23:53:31 < jadew> managed to go live: https://www.twitch.tv/aleatoriu
2020-09-19T23:53:54 < Steffanx> what are we looking at?
2020-09-19T23:54:04 < zyp> jadew's pet
2020-09-19T23:54:07 < Steffanx> spider fight?
2020-09-19T23:54:17 < Steffanx> i thought only mawk was into spiders
2020-09-19T23:54:21 < jadew> I'm hoping for a spider feeding itself
2020-09-19T23:54:30 < jadew> but it currently seems more concerned with getting out
2020-09-19T23:54:33 < jadew> which is not going to happen
2020-09-19T23:55:14 < zyp> qyx, bit worried about power though
2020-09-19T23:56:14 < zyp> not sure how much power a RK3399-SOM draws, IIRC spec says something like 12V 1A
2020-09-19T23:56:39 < karlp> what is "HP" in this term?
2020-09-19T23:56:45 < zyp> 5.08mm
2020-09-19T23:57:01 < karlp> 3x3HP? 2x8HP?
2020-09-19T23:57:17 < zyp> a 19" chassis is 84HP wide
2020-09-19T23:57:25 < karlp> thanks
2020-09-19T23:57:26 < qyx> hoprizontal pitch karlp 
2020-09-19T23:57:43 < karlp> this is your subrack stuff.
2020-09-19T23:57:47 < zyp> yes
2020-09-19T23:58:06 < qyx> I need 20W max on the ouutput only
2020-09-19T23:58:13 < qyx> usually much less, abnout 1W
2020-09-19T23:58:54 < qyx> but I want it to charghe in about 2h, which is ~e0W
2020-09-19T23:58:58 < qyx> 30W
2020-09-19T23:59:09 < karlp> qyx: hey look, lte module cheap.... https://www.banggood.com/AI-Thinker-4G-Full-Netcom-LTE-IoT-Wireless-Communication-Module-Ultra-small-Ca-01-GPIO-or-UART-or-ADC-p-1717927.html?rmmds=search&addWish=1&cur_warehouse=CN
2020-09-19T23:59:42 < zyp> yeah, idk how much I need, but if the module can draw up to 12W and I'm gonna have 64 of them, I need to put some thoughts into power supplies :p
2020-09-19T23:59:50 < qyx> lol
--- Day changed Sun Sep 20 2020
2020-09-20T00:00:31 < zyp> still not sure what I'd do with 64 RK3399s in a box though, it's one of those «it'd be fun to make» sillyprojects
2020-09-20T00:01:08 < Cracki> strata, zyp wants to make a cluster
2020-09-20T00:02:03 < Cracki> does it really
2020-09-20T00:02:45 < jadew> that spider is dumb
2020-09-20T00:02:53 < jadew> food scares him...
2020-09-20T00:02:56 < zyp> duh, it's a spider
2020-09-20T00:02:56 < Cracki> it can do webs. can you do webs.
2020-09-20T00:03:09 < Cracki> maybe it's on a diet.
2020-09-20T00:03:20 < jadew> I should probably put another spider in
2020-09-20T00:06:40 < jadew> do you think it would eat something green? like a leaf?
2020-09-20T00:07:17 < jadew> it's obviously not interested in that other insect, which was the only one I could find around the house
2020-09-20T00:08:26 < jadew> maybe I should give them something to be upset about
2020-09-20T00:08:31 < jadew> like a drop of alcohol
2020-09-20T00:10:41 < Cracki> I'd expect spiders to eat flies
2020-09-20T00:10:58 < jadew> that's the closest thing I have to a fly
2020-09-20T00:11:05 < Cracki> why are you toying with a spider? kick it out, it'll do fine outside
2020-09-20T00:11:29 < jadew> I know, that was the plan but my son wanted to see it, and now I want to see it eating something
2020-09-20T00:11:48 < Cracki> heh
2020-09-20T00:12:40 < jadew> ok, I'm bored
2020-09-20T00:12:45 < Cracki> some/all? spiders wrap their prey up and then inject some digestive juices... so they'll later slurp it up
2020-09-20T00:12:53 < jadew> I know
2020-09-20T00:12:58 < jadew> I wanted to see that
2020-09-20T00:13:15 < jadew> I'll just let it go
2020-09-20T00:13:23 < jadew> hope he likes the cold
2020-09-20T00:13:59 < qyx> sure
2020-09-20T00:14:34 < Cracki> breaking rocks https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WMrcUoDIeTM
2020-09-20T00:14:57 < Cracki> he drills a hole, then uses the jack hammer to split it with a wedge/feather/something
2020-09-20T00:15:17 < zyp> damn, I should have hadd that vacuum
2020-09-20T00:15:43 < Cracki> much dust eh
2020-09-20T00:15:44 < qyx> karlp: being a cat mean it works on any current LTE network?
2020-09-20T00:15:48 < qyx> cat1
2020-09-20T00:16:03 < zyp> Cracki, yeah
2020-09-20T00:16:21 < qyx> I mean, is it possible to be a cat4+ or so network?
2020-09-20T00:17:22 < zyp> that drill looks lighter than the one I rented
2020-09-20T00:17:32 < qyx> zyp: I am curious how are you going to run 1kW of power over tour backplane
2020-09-20T00:17:45 < zyp> qyx, exactly
2020-09-20T00:18:16 < qyx> could be doable with 48V, 20A is not that much
2020-09-20T00:18:50 < zyp> yeah, could do a stepdown to 12V on each card
2020-09-20T00:19:10 < zyp> but then again each card doesn't need that much power
2020-09-20T00:19:41 < zyp> 4-5A @12V per card, standard PCIe connectors should handle that just fine
2020-09-20T00:19:52 < qyx> are you building a cluster without needing its power?
2020-09-20T00:20:59 < zyp> drawing 4-5A here and there out of a couple of huge power/ground planes shouldn't be too much of a problem
2020-09-20T00:21:20 < zyp> problem will just be feeding it into the planes somewhere :)
2020-09-20T00:21:38 < qyx> I was thinking the same in the last design
2020-09-20T00:22:05 < qyx> then I discovered my HSE stops running when the charger tries to charge at >800mA
2020-09-20T00:22:10 < zyp> haha
2020-09-20T00:22:47 < zyp> Cracki, that wedge looks overkill for that rock
2020-09-20T00:24:10 < karlp> qyx: aiui, nettwork will have an upper limit, but all modules are compatible, if freq bands and modes are matching
2020-09-20T00:24:15 < Cracki> perhaps :P but he must have felt drilling + splitting to be easier and/or quicker than hammering the thing entirely
2020-09-20T00:24:22 < karlp> category ar ejust to rate the speed that nodes can handle
2020-09-20T00:24:26 < zyp> yeah, for sure
2020-09-20T00:24:33 < qyx> I still want to do a fully stm32 controlled MPPT charger but idk if it is the right time yet
2020-09-20T00:24:37 < Cracki> they do split rather easily
2020-09-20T00:25:02 < zyp> hmm, pretty efficient actually
2020-09-20T00:25:32 < zyp> I'm just thinking that the small 20mm wedges I've got would do just fine to split that rock
2020-09-20T00:25:48 < zyp> drill a couple of holes, put them in, knock a bit on them with a hammer, done
2020-09-20T00:26:09 < qyx> karlp: I was thinking if the network couldn't limit some "slow" modulations in order to ise the availabnle BW efficiently
2020-09-20T00:26:16 < qyx> *use
2020-09-20T00:27:46 < zyp> I've managed to crack up most of the rock I want to remove for now now
2020-09-20T00:28:12 < zyp> so now I just need to dig out the electric drill and wedges to reduce it to manageable pieces
2020-09-20T00:29:19 < zyp> did I post this pic already? https://bin.jvnv.net/file/re5lf.jpg
2020-09-20T00:29:54 < zyp> that's how it looked yesterday morning, before I also filled the holes on the right side in the pic
2020-09-20T00:30:02 < zyp> now that part is also all cracked up
2020-09-20T00:30:43 < qyx> I was about to ask why didn't you continue
2020-09-20T00:31:02 < zyp> next time I'm doing this I think I wanna set up a timelapse camera of the cracking :p
2020-09-20T00:31:07 < zyp> hehe
2020-09-20T00:31:13 < zyp> I can go snap an updated pic, brb
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2020-09-20T00:34:49 < zyp> https://bin.jvnv.net/file/Szg1Z.jpg
2020-09-20T00:36:01 -!- day [~Unknown@unaffiliated/day] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer]
2020-09-20T00:36:22 < zyp> and the reason I didn't do that last part before yesterday was because I ran out of expanding shit and had to go pick up more
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2020-09-20T00:40:28 < Steffanx> Expanding shit. I dont want to know what you eat :P
2020-09-20T00:41:59 -!- bvernoux [~Ben@88.120.152.126] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds]
2020-09-20T00:49:04 < qyx> nice Crackies
2020-09-20T00:56:11 -!- Steffanx [~steffanx@unaffiliated/steffanx] has quit [Quit: Whop whop]
2020-09-20T01:00:12 < Cracki> this is wat happens when the big bad wolf eats chalk
2020-09-20T01:01:01 -!- bvernoux [~Ben@88.120.152.126] has joined ##stm32
2020-09-20T01:02:08 < Cracki> oh btw the best looking time lapses use full exposures for the blurring effect
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2020-09-20T01:06:08 < zyp> https://bin.jvnv.net/file/cLJ3b.mp4
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2020-09-20T01:13:07 < kakinull> that is men's work
2020-09-20T01:13:36 < englishman> cool
2020-09-20T01:13:37 < englishman> ty
2020-09-20T01:13:49 < englishman> looks very precise
2020-09-20T01:15:01 < zyp> very
2020-09-20T01:15:17 < zyp> who cares about precise, I just want the shit in pieces so I can get rid of it
2020-09-20T01:16:33 < kakinull> I don't think drilling rock with jackhammer and precise can be said in same sentence
2020-09-20T01:16:59 < kakinull> it's just fucking the rocks
2020-09-20T01:17:27 < zyp> kinda hard to get the hole started precisely, shit's jumping all over the place until it gets deep enough to stay in place
2020-09-20T01:20:43 < karlp> qyx: not my field of expertise, but aiui, that's why lte-m1 and nb-iot and shti are "separate" but lte-cat1 is ok.
2020-09-20T01:21:24 < karlp> good news though, börek now available in grocery store bakery section!
2020-09-20T01:21:33 < karlp> 50% off at night too
2020-09-20T01:21:35 < kakinull> börek1!?
2020-09-20T01:22:06 < karlp> yah man, life's good
2020-09-20T01:22:12 < karlp> thank you immigrants!
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2020-09-20T01:46:11 < antto> isn't that sorta turkish banitsa?
2020-09-20T01:50:06 < karlp> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/B%C3%B6rek
2020-09-20T01:50:11 < karlp> pick your local name of choice
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2020-09-20T02:00:39 < Steffanx> At work we have this syrian guy. He sometimes takes stuff like that to work for everyone to eat(because his wife forced him). Im not a fan :P
2020-09-20T02:02:50 < Cracki> fancy stuff or the equivalent of "meat and potatoes"
2020-09-20T02:03:22 < Cracki> had a chinese roomie once, he made "moon"something. I had no idea what's in it, or if he made it with something icky, so I left it
2020-09-20T02:03:51 < Cracki> stuffed vegetables sound edible https://trip101.com/article/traditional-food-in-syria#:~:text=The%20traditional%20food%20of%20Syria,Bil%20Sanieh%20(baked%20Kibbeh).
2020-09-20T02:04:55 < Cracki> looks close enough to stuffed peppers and I know those from hungarian cuisine
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2020-09-20T02:19:50 -!- Cracki [~cracki@unaffiliated/cracki] has quit [Quit: Leaving]
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2020-09-20T02:26:55 < Steffanx> Hm
2020-09-20T02:28:07 < Steffanx> Its Baklava-ish what he sometimes takes to work, cracki 
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2020-09-20T03:16:48 < jly> replace the engine 
2020-09-20T03:35:05 -!- Cracki [~cracki@unaffiliated/cracki] has joined ##stm32
2020-09-20T03:41:54 < Steffanx> Got to pump it up jly
2020-09-20T03:43:24 < jly> it's blown
2020-09-20T03:44:04 < Steffanx> Ohno.
2020-09-20T03:44:06 -!- qyx [~qyx@gw2.krtko.org] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds]
2020-09-20T03:44:19 < Steffanx> What will you use now?
2020-09-20T03:45:44 -!- qyx [~qyx@gw2.krtko.org] has joined ##stm32
2020-09-20T03:48:16 < jly> bugs
2020-09-20T03:48:35 -!- hornang [~quassel@185.56.185.179] has quit [Quit: No Ping reply in 180 seconds.]
2020-09-20T03:49:06 < jly> Steffanx: where is DOCTOR BLXTR
2020-09-20T03:50:34 -!- hornang [~quassel@185.56.185.179] has joined ##stm32
2020-09-20T03:53:03 < Cracki> cooking syrian food maybe
2020-09-20T03:54:41 < dongs> what
2020-09-20T03:54:43 < dongs> is crt back
2020-09-20T03:54:51 < dongs> readt to pump
2020-09-20T03:55:19 < jly> out of gas
2020-09-20T03:57:46 < Cracki> out of gas you say, here's a can of tiger https://twitter.com/tasmanianfox/status/1307425122471510016
2020-09-20T03:58:06 < jly> can you feed him australia?
2020-09-20T03:58:38 < jly> your new pet looks hungry Cracki 
2020-09-20T03:58:48 < Cracki> I ate his lunch
2020-09-20T03:59:36 < jly> the best thing about covid19 is pro_audio and DJs are deleted 
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2020-09-20T04:09:14 < Cracki> musics https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-50NdPawLVY
2020-09-20T04:09:48 < Cracki> muricans, play this loudly if you need your house torched and your throat slit by terrorists
2020-09-20T04:11:46 < jly> ok
2020-09-20T04:16:47 < machinehum> Is calling a competitor, pretending you're a journalist, asking for an interview, conducting said interview to extract info just unethical... or illigal as well?
2020-09-20T04:17:02 < Cracki> do it
2020-09-20T04:17:05 < machinehum> Or is it neither
2020-09-20T04:17:17 < machinehum> I'm a pretty badass mother fucker
2020-09-20T04:17:17 < Cracki> if you had it done to yourself/your company, just bury him under the car lot
2020-09-20T04:17:35 < Cracki> so wat did you get out of them
2020-09-20T04:17:49 < Cracki> anything technical would be unlikely to be asked by a journalist
2020-09-20T04:18:05 < Cracki> besides, if they volunteer that info to a JOURNALIST, they expect it to be disseminated
2020-09-20T04:18:08 < machinehum> Well I havn't done anything yet, but this channel is pretty good for legal advice
2020-09-20T04:18:20 < machinehum> Right
2020-09-20T04:18:49 < machinehum> hmm, good point... Maybe I should tell them I'm from the government?
2020-09-20T04:19:05 < Cracki> lol
2020-09-20T04:19:27 < Cracki> just drop a few trojan'd thumb drives on their parking lot
2020-09-20T04:19:41 < machinehum> Dude I'm not going in IRL
2020-09-20T04:19:59 < machinehum> Rubber ducky's are too fucking expensive
2020-09-20T04:20:01 < Cracki> stalk the employees, be a honey trap or throw hookers a them
2020-09-20T04:20:03 < machinehum> Also covid
2020-09-20T04:20:06 < Cracki> learn from the soviets
2020-09-20T04:20:11 < Cracki> or better yet, mossad
2020-09-20T04:20:24 < machinehum> Yeah nothing like a reverse shell and dns smuggleing out their entire NAS
2020-09-20T04:20:37 < Cracki> you aren't gonna die from covid. death rate is tiny, unless you're 89 years old and battling cancer
2020-09-20T04:20:44 < machinehum> Sweet sweet dns smuggling
2020-09-20T04:21:26 < Cracki> get employed with the local fire fighters, then set fire to their server room, then you get to open it and carry burned shit out
2020-09-20T04:23:18 < machinehum> I like it
2020-09-20T04:23:26 < machinehum> But you know, those fumes
2020-09-20T04:26:32 < Cracki> you get air in a bottle and a full face mask.... or are you worried for the environment?
2020-09-20T04:30:44 < Cracki> lol wtf https://pbs.twimg.com/media/EiTL8ZlXkAMr68r?format=jpg&name=orig
2020-09-20T04:40:37 < jly> https://usercontent.irccloud-cdn.com/file/0frOiu7h/VR.mp4
2020-09-20T04:41:13 < jly> NSFW
2020-09-20T04:44:04 < machinehum> huh
2020-09-20T04:44:07 < machinehum> SFW
2020-09-20T04:44:10 < machinehum> for sure
2020-09-20T04:45:44 < jly> the planet works from home now
2020-09-20T04:47:00 < machinehum> Wait... I should masquerade as an investor
2020-09-20T04:47:18 < machinehum> That's a way better idea, then I can ask for their financials
2020-09-20T04:48:07 < Cracki> what are their financials gonna tell you
2020-09-20T04:48:17 < machinehum> Market size
2020-09-20T04:48:20 < Cracki> ah
2020-09-20T04:48:25 < machinehum> That's why I'm trying to figure out
2020-09-20T04:48:29 < machinehum> what*
2020-09-20T04:49:35 < jly> just do the 'Theranos' thing
2020-09-20T04:49:44 < machinehum> The what?
2020-09-20T04:50:23 < jly> 5 billion dollar tech scam, just cause it had a woman attached to it
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2020-09-20T04:51:20 < jly> think of a megaZano or some shit idk
2020-09-20T04:52:11 < jly> like you'd probably fuck the woman behind it, but you wouldn't tell your friends that you did
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2020-09-20T05:36:01 < jsoft> Anyone familiar with serial loading via stm32loader.py and why it might be moaning about NACK's ?
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2020-09-20T06:57:39 < machinehum>  no sorry
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2020-09-20T08:05:51 < englishman> jly no
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2020-09-20T11:42:59 < PaulFertser> jsoft: have you considered comparing verbose logs to stm32flash results?
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2020-09-20T14:02:43 < Laurenceb> https://youtu.be/Aq1PV8JcstA
2020-09-20T14:03:26 < jsoft> PaulFertser, verbose logs of what ?
2020-09-20T14:04:47 < Laurenceb> https://youtu.be/A3Ft8YBUisE
2020-09-20T14:06:19 < PaulFertser> jsoft: of stm32flash vs stm32loader.py
2020-09-20T14:06:51 < jsoft> Well neither work
2020-09-20T14:07:03 < jsoft> So not really
2020-09-20T14:07:14 < jsoft> It seems to be some l0 based issue
2020-09-20T14:07:22 < jsoft> Others seem to have run into the same issue
2020-09-20T14:07:59 < jsoft> I should be able to finish coding without having to erase 
2020-09-20T14:08:08 < jsoft> But yeah, I will need to work it out at some stage
2020-09-20T14:08:35 < PaulFertser> jsoft: the bootloader protocol is documented in their official appnote so you should be able to compare that with the observations. Why is that you need serial bootloader btw?
2020-09-20T14:09:24 < jsoft> PaulFertser, Its just nice to have the programmer and the console on the same device
2020-09-20T14:09:31 < jsoft> PaulFertser, so that's how I made the board
2020-09-20T14:09:42 < jsoft> It flashed ok, just cant erase for some reason on this uC
2020-09-20T14:10:10 < PaulFertser> jsoft: do you not have SWD routed out at all?
2020-09-20T14:10:19 < jsoft> no
2020-09-20T14:11:52 < jsoft> I guess a bit silly in hindsight
2020-09-20T14:11:59 < jsoft> But it should 'work'
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2020-09-20T14:15:05 < PaulFertser> jsoft: looks related: https://community.st.com/s/question/0D50X00009Xkex4/unable-to-erase-flash-stm32l05-using-bootloader-via-spi-cmds
2020-09-20T14:16:53 < jsoft> PaulFertser, hmmmm
2020-09-20T14:17:12 < jsoft> PaulFertser, that makes sense to what I am seeing
2020-09-20T14:17:46 < jsoft> PaulFertser, perhaps I should try alter stm32flash to do the read protect / read unprotect
2020-09-20T14:18:04 < jsoft> PaulFertser, thanks for that, I never found that particular link
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2020-09-20T14:18:24 < PaulFertser> jsoft: it already supports -u to unprotect
2020-09-20T14:18:47 < PaulFertser> probably -j -k are closer to what you need
2020-09-20T14:20:01 < PaulFertser> For the reference, that was the third link from https://www.google.com/search?hl=en&q=stm32flash%20erase%20nack
2020-09-20T14:20:12 < jsoft> PaulFertser, ok I must have a different stm32loader
2020-09-20T14:20:27 < PaulFertser> jsoft: I'm talking about stm32flash 
2020-09-20T14:20:28 < jsoft> I have -u, but no -j or -k 
2020-09-20T14:20:33 < jsoft> oh sorry
2020-09-20T14:20:56 < Laurenceb> >there are mexican trump supporters who crossed the trump wall for his rally
2020-09-20T14:21:19 < jsoft> Ahh look at that, its in the repos
2020-09-20T14:21:21  * jsoft tries
2020-09-20T14:26:27 < jsoft> PaulFertser, that worked!
2020-09-20T14:26:30 < jsoft> PaulFertser, well, partially
2020-09-20T14:26:34 < jsoft> PaulFertser, it erased it
2020-09-20T14:26:52 < jsoft> PaulFertser, I had to flash it with another tool, because it tried to mass erase
2020-09-20T14:27:26 < PaulFertser> jsoft: cool! stm32flash accepts contributions, so feel free to send a patch to them.
2020-09-20T14:28:45 < Laurenceb> https://youtu.be/qblAMMltbkw
2020-09-20T14:29:20 < jsoft> PaulFertser, I may just do that
2020-09-20T14:29:23 < jsoft> PaulFertser, thanks for the help
2020-09-20T14:30:15 < PaulFertser> jsoft: :) good luck with your project!
2020-09-20T14:30:57 < PaulFertser> jsoft: it says with "-e 0" the flash wouldn't be erased.
2020-09-20T14:31:21 < PaulFertser> (it == stm32flash man page)
2020-09-20T14:31:57 < PaulFertser> And probably with -e <exact number of pages> it would use page-by-page erase and not mass erase so that would workaround the silly bootloader issue too.
2020-09-20T14:32:22 < PaulFertser> It would be nice if stm32flash included this workaround for l0 devices by default.
2020-09-20T14:36:49 < jsoft> PaulFertser, hmm, let me try with -e 0
2020-09-20T14:37:44 < jadew> did you guys know they make diodes that look like resistors? https://www.tme.eu/Document/07e8645e98d942562c87113b5239c3b8/BZS55C5V1-RXG.pdf
2020-09-20T14:37:59 < jsoft> PaulFertser, yes that works :)
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2020-09-20T19:33:07 < boddax> i did some steps wuth tft but if i set portrait screen removing   tft.setRotation(1); then the screen is mirrored 
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2020-09-20T19:39:18 < Steffanx> something like https://github.com/Bodmer/TFT_eSPI/issues/96?
2020-09-20T19:39:39 < Steffanx> or maybe you have to tell it to set it to 0 and not just removing setting it to 1?
2020-09-20T19:43:35 < boddax> thumbs up Steffanx
2020-09-20T19:43:37 < boddax> tft.setRotation(2);
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2020-09-20T21:02:20 < boddax> dont know much about trigonometry what mean the dot number of this code      float sx2 = cos((i + seg - 90) * 0.0174532925);
2020-09-20T21:02:30 < boddax> 0.0174532925 ?
2020-09-20T21:07:22 < Cracki> 1 / 0.0174532925 = 57.295...
2020-09-20T21:07:28 < Cracki> that's some degree/radian conversion factor
2020-09-20T21:07:32 < Steffanx> 1 degree in radian
2020-09-20T21:07:42 < Cracki> >>> 360 * 0.0174532925  # 6.2831852999999995
2020-09-20T21:07:59 < boddax> ah ok conversion
2020-09-20T21:08:05 < Cracki> shit code, should be expressed as (2*M_PI / 360)
2020-09-20T21:08:43 < Cracki> or even M_2PI if that exists
2020-09-20T21:09:03 < Cracki> M_2_PI
2020-09-20T21:09:17 < Cracki> fuck no, "Two times the reciprocal of pi. " who defines this bullshit
2020-09-20T21:09:45 < boddax> found this example code i try to reuse for my project thread lathe sync getting data from encoder
2020-09-20T21:10:06 < boddax> originally was temperature gauge tft
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2020-09-20T21:59:37 < Steffanx> Whats your plan with the " thread lathe sync"  boddax?
2020-09-20T22:00:34 < boddax> when you threading screw need mutipass back and fort have dial to check when start to thread
2020-09-20T22:00:47 < boddax> pass again same place
2020-09-20T22:01:24 < boddax> instead mechanical dial try to make digital with lcd
2020-09-20T22:01:35 < boddax> you need also=
2020-09-20T22:01:38 < boddax> ?
2020-09-20T22:03:12 < Steffanx> No  i have no lathe
2020-09-20T22:03:20 < Steffanx> I would want one though but...
2020-09-20T22:04:10 < Steffanx> but i would be like: why not make it all automagic.
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2020-09-20T22:04:46 < boddax> with vhuck 4 jaws you can square also cylinder can do many things
2020-09-20T22:04:53 < boddax> chuck
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2020-09-20T22:05:55 < boddax> chinese small lathe ok for alu or brass
2020-09-20T22:07:12 < Steffanx> i probably would need 2, for that and maybe wood :P
2020-09-20T22:07:33 < Steffanx> but i cannot really justify it, would problably use it ... once /year
2020-09-20T22:07:50 < Steffanx> and lack of space
2020-09-20T22:08:17 < boddax> nah when you have then lots projects
2020-09-20T22:08:51 < boddax> yup better secind hand and big can do also small job precise with collet chuck
2020-09-20T22:09:10 < boddax> i mean ER chuck
2020-09-20T22:09:51 < boddax> 2 thousand/mm error
2020-09-20T22:11:24 < boddax> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ptmxSjxWM70
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2020-09-20T22:51:21 < mawk> who wants some fresh trigonometry
2020-09-20T22:51:27 < mawk> you want some Cracki ? 99.9% purity
2020-09-20T22:51:37 < mawk> GC/MS tested, you can snort it all night long
2020-09-20T22:52:01 < Cracki> got ice cream, that's enough crystal-something for tonight
2020-09-20T22:53:01 < Cracki> lemme guess, you wanna square the circle
2020-09-20T22:53:22 < mawk> lol
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2020-09-20T23:28:18 < Cracki> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Squaring_the_circle#Modern_approximative_constructions
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2020-09-21T00:57:25 < upgrdman> after improving threading, TelemetryViewer can now process >2Gbps of telemetry... for about 1 minute before a memory leak fucks me in the ass :/ but at least i know where the leak is...
2020-09-21T00:58:50 < upgrdman> side note, my samsung 850 evo reports ~100% usage when writing at ~300MBps :( that's only 2.4Gbps... i thought it was good for ~6Gbps :(
2020-09-21T00:58:56 < Cracki> memmap a file
2020-09-21T00:59:28 < Cracki> evo means they have a big SLC part that accelerates the first few/dozen GB but after that you're slower
2020-09-21T00:59:41 < Cracki> 300 MB/s sounds about right
2020-09-21T00:59:43 < upgrdman> no need to memmap. im flushing old data to disk, but was too lazy to also flush other related data. i just need to swap ALL old data to disk
2020-09-21T01:00:02 < upgrdman> orly?
2020-09-21T01:00:10 < Cracki> 6 Gbit/s is just the sata link rate
2020-09-21T01:00:15 < upgrdman> ya
2020-09-21T01:00:35 < upgrdman> i think the newer 950+ EVO models are >6Gbps because theyre not sata?
2020-09-21T01:00:37 < Cracki> assuming it's sata, even the SLC cache speed is typically rated at 500-550 MB/s
2020-09-21T01:00:50 < Cracki> those are pcie, so you can get 1-3 GByte/s
2020-09-21T01:01:05 < Cracki> but again evo, cache + then it's slower
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2020-09-21T01:01:29 < upgrdman> "The 970 PRO combines the next-gen PCIe Gen 3x4 NVMe interface with the latest V-NAND technology and a newly enhanced Phoenix controller to achieve fearless read/write speeds up to 3,500/2,700 MB/s" cool
2020-09-21T01:01:35 < Cracki> PRO doesn't have that, it's fast all the time
2020-09-21T01:01:42 < upgrdman> ya
2020-09-21T01:01:48 < Cracki> and correspondingly more expensive
2020-09-21T01:02:20 < upgrdman> i guess now i have an excuse to buy some massive ssd, and use it in one of my yt vids so it can be a tax write off ;)
2020-09-21T01:02:34 < Cracki> lol
2020-09-21T01:03:09 < upgrdman> "Easy Arduino Telemetry at 20Gbps!"
2020-09-21T01:04:05 < Lux> just keep in mind that those are all pretty much limited by thermal throttling if you want sequential
2020-09-21T01:04:05 < upgrdman> and i might as well splurge on a rtx3090 and some threadripper while im at it
2020-09-21T01:04:35 < upgrdman> Lux, really? interesting. so ppl that heatsink their m.2 drives have a legit reason. TIL
2020-09-21T01:04:41 < Cracki> uh
2020-09-21T01:04:46 < Lux> even the pro pcie ssds slow down after a few mins
2020-09-21T01:04:50 < Cracki> heatsinking of m.2 ssds, haven't heard that honestly
2020-09-21T01:05:15 < Cracki> but I have no experience with those things either. I'm just using sata ssds
2020-09-21T01:05:19 < upgrdman> Cracki, some GAYmer motherboard have m.2 slots with aluminum heatsinks/heatspreaders you clamp on top
2020-09-21T01:05:24 < Lux> pretty common actually
2020-09-21T01:06:14 < Lux> yeah lots of "gamer" heat sinks
2020-09-21T01:06:18 < upgrdman> googled "m.2 heatsink" ... lol it's a big market!
2020-09-21T01:06:21 < specing> > fearless read/write speeds
2020-09-21T01:06:28 < upgrdman> looks like even a few water cooling blocks for m.2!
2020-09-21T01:06:28 < specing> Woo, fearless read/write!
2020-09-21T01:06:38 < specing> gotta love marketeers
2020-09-21T01:07:41 < Lux> for example: https://www.pugetsystems.com/labs/articles/Samsung-950-Pro-M-2-Throttling-Analysis-776/
2020-09-21T01:07:53 < Lux> you can find tons of benchmarks like that
2020-09-21T01:08:40 < Cracki> lol
2020-09-21T01:08:43 < Cracki> good to know
2020-09-21T01:09:23 < Cracki> why would random read/write be THAT much more effort
2020-09-21T01:09:40 < Cracki> yeah I can guess, don't bother
2020-09-21T01:10:30 < upgrdman> guessing because of overheat from SSD writing algorithms? like wear-leveling etc
2020-09-21T01:12:53 < Cracki> random read/write often implies tiny block sizes
2020-09-21T01:13:20 < Cracki> which means read, modify, write (elsewhere), erase original block
2020-09-21T01:13:53 < Cracki> and that would take more current than "sequential write", just fills blank blocks
2020-09-21T01:14:05 < upgrdman> have intel/amd released this years stuff already? or is more shit supposed to appear before xmas?
2020-09-21T01:14:26 < Cracki> I'd expect releases before xmas
2020-09-21T01:15:19 < Cracki> 980 pro might come https://www.anandtech.com/show/16052/samsung-980-pro-briefly-listed-online
2020-09-21T01:15:36 < upgrdman> also, why are pc cases so ugly now? ~all the cases i see on newegg/microcenter/amazon looks like ass
2020-09-21T01:15:56 < upgrdman> few clean/unobtrusive options
2020-09-21T01:16:05 < Cracki> gaymer styles i.e. bulky weird shapes and colored like a gay dog
2020-09-21T01:16:28 < Cracki> oh the simple cases still exist. they're cheap though, you won't be recommended those
2020-09-21T01:16:34 < Cracki> you have to look for them
2020-09-21T01:17:35 < zyp> the thing that annoys me about pc cases is that there's a ton of options that's all the classic layout just with stupid decorations, and not much in the way of actually being different
2020-09-21T01:18:29 < zyp> I mean, I love the case I've got now, but it's EOL and I haven't seen anything else like it
2020-09-21T01:18:56 < specing> the thing that annoys me with pc cases is ... nothing
2020-09-21T01:19:13 < specing> I have 20 year old cases that get new guts every half a decade
2020-09-21T01:19:21 < upgrdman> factory installed heatsink, lol  https://www.newegg.com/corsair-force-mp600-2-tb/p/N82E16820236549
2020-09-21T01:19:41 < zyp> hmm, maybe not EOL, but it doesn't seem to be sold anywhere in norway now
2020-09-21T01:19:53 < zyp> https://www.silverstonetek.com/product.php?pid=291 <- I got this thing
2020-09-21T01:20:01 < upgrdman> i like my Node 202 case, but when I upgrade my GPU I'll need a bigger PSU and the case wont fit a bigger one.
2020-09-21T01:20:05 < zyp> love having the connectors on top instead of one of the sides
2020-09-21T01:20:31 < Cracki> I think I'd want PSU-on-bottom if I ever get a new case. my current one can do it but no idea if I want to get rid of it. it's very solid.
2020-09-21T01:20:33 < zyp> fits perfectly in the corner behind the monitor on a corner desk
2020-09-21T01:21:25 < Cracki> I hate connectors on front/sides, my retard coworkers never pay attention and trash inserted usb drives like so
2020-09-21T01:21:37 < Cracki> on top means dirt will call in though
2020-09-21T01:21:44 < Cracki> or lemonase
2020-09-21T01:21:44 < Cracki> de
2020-09-21T01:21:58 < zyp> https://bin.jvnv.net/file/wwqFK.jpg
2020-09-21T01:22:05 < Cracki> one retard put his open lemonade on the copier... and promptly tipped it over
2020-09-21T01:22:16 < Cracki> whole scanner feed got sticky
2020-09-21T01:23:00 < Cracki> I see ikea
2020-09-21T01:23:06 < zyp> ikea all the way
2020-09-21T01:23:20 < upgrdman> zyp, whats the thing on the desk edge?
2020-09-21T01:23:29 < zyp> the kid chair?
2020-09-21T01:23:31 < upgrdman> looks like a baby holder for a shopping cart
2020-09-21T01:23:34 < upgrdman> ah, ya
2020-09-21T01:23:43 < Cracki> how _do_ righties deal with the alphabet block on keyboards being off center relative to display, while numpad etc are between that and mouse
2020-09-21T01:23:51 < Cracki> that must be incredibly frustrating to yall
2020-09-21T01:24:20 < Cracki> that's not a baby holder, that's a laserdisc drive
2020-09-21T01:26:05 < zyp> Cracki, how so?
2020-09-21T01:26:37 < Cracki> cd drive = mug holder, laserdisc drive = baby holder? or my wondering how right handed people don't smash their keyboards?
2020-09-21T01:26:44 < zyp> latter
2020-09-21T01:26:53 < Cracki> I'm a leftie (in handedness only) so my mouse is to the left of the ABC block
2020-09-21T01:27:00 < Cracki> and the abc block is centered to the screen
2020-09-21T01:27:11 < Cracki> so I can type and both hands are just where they need to be
2020-09-21T01:27:16 < zyp> yeah, I figured, I've just never thought of it as an issue at all
2020-09-21T01:27:17 < Cracki> I can reach to the mouse, it's right there.
2020-09-21T01:27:37 < Cracki> and the numpad is out of the way, but not so far that I can't just reach it and use
2020-09-21T01:28:04 < Cracki> I can rest my left forearm on the table and move between abc and mouse
2020-09-21T01:28:24 < zyp> I mean, look at it the other way, the most common keyboard shortcuts are on the left hand side (ctrl+a/x/c/v), so you can use left hand for those while keeping the right on the mouse
2020-09-21T01:28:54 < zyp> how can you stand moving your hand between keyboard and mouse all the time when you're using the mouse to navigate and keyboard to cut and paste?
2020-09-21T01:29:41 < Cracki> copy/cut/paste have old school shortcuts on the right hand too
2020-09-21T01:29:48 < Cracki> ins/del _do_ have a purpose
2020-09-21T01:29:58 < Cracki> just needs a shift/ctrl modifier
2020-09-21T01:30:11 < zyp> oh, shift-del is cut?
2020-09-21T01:30:11 < Cracki> shift-ins = ctrl-v
2020-09-21T01:30:21 < zyp> shift-ins I already use a fair bit
2020-09-21T01:30:27 < Cracki> ctrl-ins = ctrl-c
2020-09-21T01:30:41 < zyp> huh, didn't know
2020-09-21T01:30:47 < Cracki> didn't know myself for decades
2020-09-21T01:30:57 < Cracki> only found out recently _because_ i needed those + mouse a bit more than usual
2020-09-21T01:31:20 < Cracki> well I was aware that they exist for decades but never bothered to remember them
2020-09-21T01:31:35 < zyp> but still, I've never considered moving the hand being a problem
2020-09-21T01:32:11 < Cracki> I wouldn't say a problem, but I have to move my hand across the left bezel, while righties have to move their hand across the right bezel AND 7 widths of keys
2020-09-21T01:32:29 < Cracki> which is about 140 mm (~19 mm key size)
2020-09-21T01:32:33 < zyp> on the other hand I probably use the keyboard much more than the average computer user
2020-09-21T01:33:02 < Cracki> average computer user uses their thumbs... it used to be their index fingers :D
2020-09-21T01:33:17 < zyp> :p
2020-09-21T01:34:07 < zyp> I never learned proper touch typing
2020-09-21T01:34:35 < Cracki> same. tried. it was rarted. I just typed and added fingers sometimes.
2020-09-21T01:34:52 < Cracki> it'll be obsolete within a decade.
2020-09-21T01:34:53 < zyp> I still use all fingers for typing, just not in a strict pattern like that
2020-09-21T01:35:08 < zyp> eh, idk
2020-09-21T01:35:31 < zyp> you figure speech to text is gonna take over?
2020-09-21T01:35:43 < Cracki> no, I figure we'll jam needles in our heads
2020-09-21T01:36:10 < Cracki> speech to text is good enough for the masses right now, but it won't be for the exacting tasks _we_ have to accomplish with computers
2020-09-21T01:36:26 < zyp> within a decade? doubtful
2020-09-21T01:36:28 < Cracki> hell, the subhumans out there don't even use stt, they just do voice messages
2020-09-21T01:36:38 < Cracki> and they speak into the speaker and listen to the microphone end of their phones
2020-09-21T01:36:47 < Cracki> within a decade.
2020-09-21T01:36:58 < Cracki> neuralink is pushing hard
2020-09-21T01:37:30 < Cracki> and the technology has been around for a while, the basics, including user training, are stuck in a medical closet
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2020-09-21T02:23:19 < Steffanx> I dont want needles in my head just yet
2020-09-21T02:24:39 < Cracki> neuralink has a video where they show their brain sewing machine
2020-09-21T02:25:22 < Cracki> it's like a tattoo gun but with a robot wielding it
2020-09-21T02:25:37 < Cracki> very brainfuck
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2020-09-21T03:12:04 < dongs> what lube can i use to (temporarily) stop a slipping belt
2020-09-21T03:12:14 < dongs> other than tightening it / getting new belt
2020-09-21T03:12:25 < dongs> does silicone spray stuff work or is it gonna make it even more slippery
2020-09-21T03:15:37 < emeb_mac> belt dressing - not lube, but makes the belt stickier.
2020-09-21T03:21:56 < Cracki> uh
2020-09-21T03:22:11 < dongs> https://www.toymods.org.au/forums/threads/9830-Silicone-Spray-for-Noisy-Belt i found some carfag forum that said it worked, i had some treadmill belt silicone oil, spray that shit, it shut right up
2020-09-21T03:22:24 < dongs> good enough for now, ill re-tighten the belt again later, its in my industrial washer
2020-09-21T03:22:25 < Cracki> lube is the opposite of making something more grippy
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2020-09-21T03:38:14 < Cracki> I prescribe kegel exercises for the belt
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2020-09-21T06:22:36 < dongs> what teh fuck at G0
2020-09-21T06:22:49 < dongs> why is BOOT0 a fucking GPIO pin, worse, muxed with fucking SWCLK
2020-09-21T06:22:59 < dongs> on a fucking 64pin package
2020-09-21T06:23:26 < dongs> how does a nigga enter bootlaoder on thsi shit
2020-09-21T06:26:43 < specing> probably with a rifle
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2020-09-21T10:11:15 < zyp> dongs, if you want BOOT0 functionality, just do what you've always done
2020-09-21T10:12:44 < zyp> the debugger won't care about a pullup on SWCLK, and it'll sense BOOT0 just fine when you don't have the debugger connected
2020-09-21T10:13:29 < zyp> so it shouldn't matter unless you wanna use the bootloader while having the debugger connected, and why would you bother with that?
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2020-09-21T11:22:14 < jadew> check this out, my first customer from Romania is also my first female customer
2020-09-21T11:23:47 < Steffanx> Must be a lie
2020-09-21T11:23:55 < Steffanx> Its your wife
2020-09-21T11:24:10 < jadew> I already asked her lol
2020-09-21T11:25:23 < jadew> also, she's from the same city as I am
2020-09-21T11:26:14 < Steffanx> "Bro"mance?
2020-09-21T11:26:31 < jadew> it completely screws up my understanding of my customer's demographics
2020-09-21T11:27:27 < Steffanx> Ohno? Will you be alright now? :P
2020-09-21T11:27:55 < jadew> haha, not sure, I feel like I'm missing something
2020-09-21T11:30:12 < jadew> I thought most of my customers were hams, but I suppose a small portion are also engineers, which is a field that would have more women than ham
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2020-09-21T11:35:44 < PaulFertser> Funny how you say that an "isolated case" can screw up anything about your understanding :)
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2020-09-21T11:36:48 < jadew> well, I assumed they would mostly be hams, and I don't think there are too many women into it in Romania
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2020-09-21T11:37:19 < jadew> also hams are cheapskates everywhere, and that rules out Romania even more
2020-09-21T11:38:40 < jadew> I'm intrigued because it might mean that there's a market for this stuff, that I don't know about
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2020-09-21T13:50:45 < benishor> jadew: is she a ham?
2020-09-21T13:50:52 < benishor> if not, what is she buying the product for?
2020-09-21T13:51:04 < benishor> I'm a ham and I'm too cheap to buy stuff from you :)
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2020-09-21T15:32:05 < Steffanx> It's not a she
2020-09-21T15:35:35 < mawk> I got expelled from DK
2020-09-21T15:35:37 < mawk> it's a unique experience
2020-09-21T15:36:45 < mawk> would do again
2020-09-21T15:41:19 < benishor> Steffanx: [11:22] <jadew> check this out, my first customer from Romania is also my first female customer
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2020-09-21T15:43:49 < mawk> lol
2020-09-21T15:44:06 < mawk> no it's just the border was closed just before my plane landed
2020-09-21T15:44:08 < mawk> because of corona
2020-09-21T15:45:01 < mawk> ™
2020-09-21T15:45:42 < mawk> lol
2020-09-21T15:46:37 < mawk> I whined to police about not being able to take the 1000+€ return plane because I'm too poor
2020-09-21T15:46:45 < mawk> so they expelled me at their own expense
2020-09-21T15:46:53 < mawk> was worth it
2020-09-21T15:47:31 < benishor> lol mawk
2020-09-21T15:47:38 < benishor> teh fuck
2020-09-21T15:54:17 < karlp> why were you flying to .dk anyway?
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2020-09-21T15:55:34 < mawk> to do NB-IOT testing for the company, and tourism at the same time
2020-09-21T15:59:13 < mawk> I did the testing at least
2020-09-21T16:03:58 < karlp> so, did work pay for the reutrn ticket and you managd to pocket some of it at least then? :)
2020-09-21T16:22:01 < zyp> fucking drill bits, apparently I keep breaking them
2020-09-21T16:23:03 < zyp> first I broke the tip of that sds max bit, and then I broke the crown away from the drill rod for the pneumatic drill
2020-09-21T16:23:25 < zyp> and today I broke the second sds max bit, shit sheared off right at the sds max mount
2020-09-21T16:31:55 < mawk> lol no karlp I wouldn't do that
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2020-09-21T18:38:52 < Cracki> are those drills hard enough for the type of rock you have?
2020-09-21T18:39:50 < zyp> idk
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2020-09-21T18:40:17 < jpa-> do you pull up the drill often enough to clear debris?
2020-09-21T18:41:36 < zyp> it seem to be clearing debris just fine without doing that
2020-09-21T18:42:29 < zyp> I wonder if I didn't lube it enough so it got hot, weakened and sheared off, but idk
2020-09-21T18:42:34 < zyp> I did lube it
2020-09-21T18:42:41 < Cracki> pour water in the hole?
2020-09-21T18:43:09 < zyp> how/why?
2020-09-21T18:43:11 < Cracki> unless it's a drill with a hole in the middle for pressurized air to blow the debris out
2020-09-21T18:43:22 < Cracki> no clue, I just go by the one strayan dude on yt
2020-09-21T18:43:34 < Cracki> ##rockdrill32
2020-09-21T18:43:39 < zyp> pneumatic drills have flushing air
2020-09-21T18:44:02 < Cracki> ever touch the tip after pulling out of the hole? is it warm?
2020-09-21T18:44:36 < Cracki> is that thing even a drill or just a jackhammer
2020-09-21T18:45:04 < Cracki> if that's a jackhammer (or set to), I'm sure drill bits wouldn't work too well
2020-09-21T18:45:10 < zyp> which thing are we talking about now?
2020-09-21T18:45:15 < Cracki> dunno :>
2020-09-21T18:45:38 < zyp> the sds max thing is an electric hammer drill
2020-09-21T18:45:44 < zyp> obviously set to drilling
2020-09-21T18:46:30 < Cracki> ah ic, so even drill bits in the sds max break
2020-09-21T18:47:27 < zyp> https://bin.jvnv.net/file/bpjJ2.jpg <- was making good progress on this until the drill broke
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2020-09-21T18:48:13 < Cracki> how does the break look like
2020-09-21T18:48:23 < Cracki> or did it turn dull
2020-09-21T18:48:56 < zyp> it sheared off just above the sds max mount that goes in the drill
2020-09-21T18:49:01 < Cracki> o.o
2020-09-21T18:49:07 < zyp> so I still have the end piece sitting in the drill
2020-09-21T18:49:21 < Cracki> maybe the bit is too weak for the machine
2020-09-21T18:49:26 < zyp> no
2020-09-21T18:49:43 < jpa-> maybe you are too hardcore for the drill
2020-09-21T18:49:44 < zyp> the bit is rated for 15J, machine is some cheap shit that only does 9J or something
2020-09-21T18:52:37 < Cracki> in a random german web board (bosch-professional.com), some dude says the "expensive" bits aren't worth it and they've been using cheap springy shit for ages that just wears down but does the job without snapping
2020-09-21T18:52:55 < mawk> stop trying to fix this and just buy a ton of bits
2020-09-21T18:52:55 < Cracki> I guess it's a war of attrition
2020-09-21T18:53:02 < zyp> emeb, have you been playing much with the ulx3s? I'm wondering how sane the side connector pinouts are, wrt. clock capable inputs and stuff
2020-09-21T18:53:03 < mawk> problem solved
2020-09-21T18:53:37 < emeb> zyp: I haven't done much with it at all. I tried a few demos and set it aside.
2020-09-21T18:54:06 < Cracki> another says to send the "7x bit" in to mfg for them to gawk at it and maybe do better next time https://www.bosch-professional.com/de/de/community/category/verschleiss-beim-sds-plus-7x-bohrer/12540933-t/p2#main
2020-09-21T18:55:02 < karlp> sure it's not just too much lateral motion?
2020-09-21T18:56:48 < Cracki> lol there are "sucker drills" where the bit is hollow and has a vacuum thing around the root
2020-09-21T18:56:52 < Cracki> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vUBGM7c9rEM
2020-09-21T18:59:41 < zyp> emeb, considering making an addon board with multiple rmii phys to prototype some ethernet stuff
2020-09-21T19:02:27 < zyp> I figure if I can't get that microchip switch ic in workstuff to work properly in low latency mode, the easiest solution is probably to rip it out and replace it with a fpga and two plain phys
2020-09-21T19:02:55 < emeb> zyp: sounds fun. 
2020-09-21T19:03:11 < emeb> does the colorlight board work for that sort of stuff?
2020-09-21T19:03:17 < emeb> since it has 2x ethernet
2020-09-21T19:03:33 < zyp> it's rgmii
2020-09-21T19:03:42 < emeb> ah - too fast
2020-09-21T19:03:50 < zyp> and I need three ports
2020-09-21T19:03:56 < zyp> and yeah
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2020-09-21T19:04:36 < emeb> saw someone the other day who seems to have boiled the colorlight down to a SoM - just the FPGA + phys + switchers.
2020-09-21T19:04:43 < emeb> w/ sodimm
2020-09-21T19:05:08 < zyp> I figure I wanna deal directly with the rmii signals to reduce the number of registers the signal has to pass through
2020-09-21T19:05:09 < emeb> was a bit puzzled why one would do that tho
2020-09-21T19:06:09 < zyp> you mean colorlight SoM in sodimm form factor? I think I've seen that
2020-09-21T19:06:15 < emeb> yes
2020-09-21T19:06:55 < zyp> probably beneficial for engineering, can do a small high spec board for the module and maybe a 2L board for the breakout to connectors
2020-09-21T19:10:45 < emeb> I was initially put off by the ulx3s side connectors and didn't look at them too closely. now I understand that they actually support dual PMODs - just surrounded by other stuff.
2020-09-21T19:11:00 < emeb> If that's true then I've got a few things I'd like to try out with them.
2020-09-21T19:14:11 < zyp> yeah, two pmods on each side plus a bunch of extra signals
2020-09-21T19:15:56 < emeb> One thing that kind of amuses me about all this FPGA-based soft SoC stuff is the compromises that ppl are happy to make on CPU performance just to get it all into an FPGA.
2020-09-21T19:17:04 < Cracki> abolish the state... machine_
2020-09-21T19:17:06 < Cracki> ?
2020-09-21T19:17:26 < emeb> these RISC-V soft cores have performance that's worse than a $1 ARM Cortex M0, but everyone's fine with that because Open Source!
2020-09-21T19:17:58 < emeb> and they'll spend an extra $10 to on the FPGA just for the privilege.
2020-09-21T19:18:00 < zyp> emeb, I've been wondering how much worse they really are
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2020-09-21T19:19:18 < emeb> It's not hard to do benchmarks, but generally the soft CPUs are multi-cycle with very little pipelining and clock rates under 50MHz.
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2020-09-21T19:19:55 < Cracki> "everone's fine with..." those people are doing it as a hobby or for research/education.
2020-09-21T19:20:48 < Cracki> if performance is important, and flexibility isn't, nobody would seriously prefer a softcore over silicon
2020-09-21T19:21:00 < emeb> at least when I put a soft 6502 into my FPGAs they're running 20x faster than a real 6502. :)
2020-09-21T19:21:06 < Cracki> heh
2020-09-21T19:22:53 < zyp> I signed a NDA for the arm designstart stuff the other day, so unless they will tell me to fuck off, I'm gonna try synthesizing an actual cortex-m0
2020-09-21T19:23:01 < emeb> Anyway - it strikes me as a strange tradeoff to spend more $$ on the larger FPGA so you can put a soft core into it than it would cost to buy a dedicated hard IP MCU and stick it on the outside of the FPGA
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2020-09-21T19:23:28 < Cracki> tinkering, that's all
2020-09-21T19:23:44 < Cracki> also I think there aren't that many options for silicon RV yet
2020-09-21T19:23:58 < jpa-> emeb: well, if the soft core is the *only* thing on the FPGA then yeah, but otherwise it is just one part saved
2020-09-21T19:24:25 < Cracki> I know of gigadevice and one other brand so far
2020-09-21T19:24:32 < jpa-> also for most things part cost is not really very relevant, though i'm not sure riscv on FPGA wins in development time either
2020-09-21T19:24:34 < emeb> I guess MCHP's microsemi division has a new high-powered RV part coming out soon.
2020-09-21T19:24:41 < emeb> with embedded FPGA
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2020-09-21T19:26:11 < emeb> jpa-: "cost not relevant" would make sense if the performance was better, but even there the soft CPUs are slower w/ fewer useful features. 
2020-09-21T19:26:16 < zyp> jpa-, why not? stuff like litex makes it super easy to put together a cpu and some standard peripherals along with your custom peripherals
2020-09-21T19:26:33 < zyp> emeb, doesn't have to be better if it's good enough
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2020-09-21T19:26:57 < emeb> zyp's point is really the only benefit I see so far - having the ability to tune the CSRs and buses to the application.
2020-09-21T19:27:48 < zyp> also, if you wanna do memory mapped peripherals, you can't just stick the cheapest m0 next to it, you need at least something like f4 with FSMC
2020-09-21T19:28:16 < zyp> and then you get the fun of routing a parallel memory bus
2020-09-21T19:28:18 < jpa-> for future flexibility, one might just stick a big FPGA on board; and then having a softcore could simplify assembly, part procurement, production testing etc.
2020-09-21T19:28:29 < emeb> of course, and there's a throughput penalty for going between chips like that.
2020-09-21T19:29:18 < zyp> the way I see it, the problem is that there aren't really any good mcu-class hybrid parts
2020-09-21T19:29:43 < emeb> hmmm. 
2020-09-21T19:29:58 < emeb> I've done a bit of work w/ Zynq. Those work nicely.
2020-09-21T19:30:07 < emeb> just the Xilinx toolchain sucks balls.
2020-09-21T19:30:29 < Cracki> any viable alternative toolchains for that thing?
2020-09-21T19:30:40 < Cracki> (I'd expect not but who knows)
2020-09-21T19:30:48 < emeb> Well the FOSS toolchain folks are working on it
2020-09-21T19:30:50 < jpa-> seems like many fpga toolchains suck, and then most are also locked to internet so that you have no guarantees you can update your design a year later
2020-09-21T19:31:04 < Cracki> iow xilinx isn't giving out any info
2020-09-21T19:31:25 < emeb> It's not necessary for Xilinx to support the RE effort
2020-09-21T19:31:54 < emeb> The FOSS folks already have some stuff working and a pretty good documentation of the Artix bitstream format.
2020-09-21T19:31:56 < zyp> Cracki, FOSS stuff for xilinx 7-series seems to be making decent progress, but still not production ready/feature complete
2020-09-21T19:32:29 < Cracki> the curse of having to reverse engineer a flagship product
2020-09-21T19:32:33 < emeb> And the Litex / ?migen folks have their flow wrapped around the Xilinx tools
2020-09-21T19:32:51 < emeb> So it is possible to Zynq w/ Litex.
2020-09-21T19:32:55 < Cracki> wew
2020-09-21T19:32:57 < zyp> yeah
2020-09-21T19:32:59 < emeb> Just takes some effort to figure it out.
2020-09-21T19:41:28 < zyp> I got one of those quicklogic things here, they seem a bit fun
2020-09-21T19:41:42 < zyp> but I haven't had time to play much with it
2020-09-21T19:47:19 < emeb> saw those. skimmed the datasheet.
2020-09-21T19:47:36 < emeb> seems like they're geared towards IoT voice command processing.
2020-09-21T19:47:43 < emeb> IIRC
2020-09-21T19:51:52 < zyp> yeah
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2020-09-21T20:01:56 < karlp> fucking 16bit registers, whose idea was that?!
2020-09-21T20:05:36 < boddax> wanted more regusters?
2020-09-21T20:05:46 < boddax> registers*
2020-09-21T20:07:54 < emeb> karlp: where are these regs?
2020-09-21T20:08:02 < karlp> inside a power meter.
2020-09-21T20:08:19 < karlp> just trying to get dynamic range where I want, and calibration and scaling and shit is being a turd.
2020-09-21T20:08:35 < karlp> at least the first problem turned out to be a soldering problem on one channel, so that's ok at least.
2020-09-21T20:08:56 < emeb> fun with fixed point
2020-09-21T20:09:52 < karlp> I guess, not really my end though.
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2020-09-21T20:22:58 < upgrdman> any there any pc hardware review web sites that are decent? like cpu/gpu/mobo/ssd/psu comparisons without all of the GAYmer faggotry?
2020-09-21T20:25:49 < Steffanx> i recall you're pretty gay, so i dont see the problem
2020-09-21T20:26:23 < upgrdman> thanks bro
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2020-09-21T20:30:11 < Steffanx> lol upgrdman
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2020-09-21T21:42:24 < antto> upgrdman, just get a ryz0n
2020-09-21T21:42:39 < antto> threddr4p0r
2020-09-21T21:43:01 < upgrdman> antto, im thinking about a threadripper. just not sure. intel has much better dev tools (vtune, etc.) so i'm undecided
2020-09-21T21:43:24 < antto> *shrug*
2020-09-21T21:43:34 < Steffanx> ##stm32 opinion = go intel
2020-09-21T21:43:38 < Steffanx> fuck amd
2020-09-21T21:43:44 < upgrdman> i mya just keep my current cpu/mobo (i7-6700k) and just upgrade my gpu/ssd/psu for now. but then i won't get full speed from the ssd.
2020-09-21T21:44:00 < upgrdman> i might just keep*
2020-09-21T21:44:15 < antto> wut'cha using it for?
2020-09-21T21:44:38 < upgrdman> data visualization and a bit of gaming.
2020-09-21T21:44:45 < antto> bluh
2020-09-21T21:44:52 < upgrdman> im pretty sure im going to buy a pair of 4k144 monitors
2020-09-21T21:45:06 < upgrdman> and my current gpu would struggle
2020-09-21T21:45:06 < antto> why tho
2020-09-21T21:45:15 < upgrdman> and my current ssd is meh
2020-09-21T21:45:27 < upgrdman> 144hz is just so much nicer. even scrolling pdf's feels better
2020-09-21T21:45:47 < antto> bruh x_x
2020-09-21T21:46:17 < antto> why 4K tho, bigger screen or just bigger DPI?
2020-09-21T21:46:44 < upgrdman> dpi
2020-09-21T21:46:46 < Steffanx> How many inch do you prefer?
2020-09-21T21:46:54 < antto> meh
2020-09-21T21:47:03 < upgrdman> i do 4k at 200%, so effective its 1080p with crisper text/pictures
2020-09-21T21:47:06 < antto> this world is messed up
2020-09-21T21:47:16 < upgrdman> Steffanx, 27" is ok, 32" would be nice.
2020-09-21T21:47:22 < Steffanx> No man, antto. You have no clue
2020-09-21T21:47:27 < Steffanx> 27" 4k is fucking awesome
2020-09-21T21:47:53 < upgrdman> i have a 24" 4k at work, its nice, but my 27" 4k feels nicer.
2020-09-21T21:48:37 < antto> "make the pix0lz smol-er, coz they're ugly, coz it's LCD"
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2020-09-21T21:49:36 < Steffanx> Whats the alternative?
2020-09-21T21:50:20 < antto> let me tell u a story
2020-09-21T21:50:43 < antto> IN A WORLD where CRTs were nice but heavy.. a new evilness arised
2020-09-21T21:50:50 < Steffanx> There was once a boy from .bg?
2020-09-21T21:50:57 < antto> it woz called LCD, and its pix0lz were all wrong
2020-09-21T21:51:11 < Steffanx> He pretty much like his big arse CRT.
2020-09-21T21:51:18 < antto> all the eggzisting font antialiasing didn't look gud on it (no wonder)
2020-09-21T21:52:14 < antto> but since the evilness spread quickly, the vector font rasterization algorithms were "adjusted" to look good on it (breaking the rulez of digital image resampling and Nyquist turned around in his coffin)
2020-09-21T21:52:19 < upgrdman> yesterday i trolled myself pretty good. i had some code "foo[i*2] = bar; foo[i*2 + 1] = baz;" ... expect the second index was typo'd to "[1*2 + 1]" ... :/
2020-09-21T21:52:35 < Steffanx> java crashed?
2020-09-21T21:53:01 < upgrdman> no crash, i didn't exceed bounds. but i was wonder wtf i did that causes lots of corrupt checksums
2020-09-21T21:53:18 < antto> this is a fuggly hack tho, there are more problems with the evil LCDs, so they decided - hide the problem, make the pix0lz much smol so u can't see em
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2020-09-21T21:54:01 < upgrdman> antto, it'd be nice of oled could fix long term burn in problems, but until this, high-dpi lcd is fine
2020-09-21T21:54:56 < antto> yeah, except high-dpi now causes a mixed situation with a lot of people using different flavours of high-dpi and a lot of people sticking to a sane DPI as always
2020-09-21T21:55:00 < Steffanx> you ever had burn in problems?
2020-09-21T21:55:05 < antto> thus the software is getting butchered
2020-09-21T21:55:24 < antto> to support all kinds of weird DPI group-rapes
2020-09-21T21:56:13 < antto> OLED (if done right) could fix the pixel uglyness, but then there would be problems again
2020-09-21T21:56:42 < upgrdman> Steffanx, no but i only have oled on my phones. the reason why dell etc. keep canceling their OLED monitors is they report burn in problems. probably not an issue for phones since they aren't on as long
2020-09-21T21:57:08 < antto> all the current algorithms (for like font AA rasterizing) that have been "butchered" to look gud on LCD (via pissing on Nyquist's grave) would look bad (as they really are) on a proper display
2020-09-21T21:57:28 < upgrdman> antto, the software problem is because the OS faggots aren't fixing their paradigms. on os x high-dpi has performed well for a decade now.
2020-09-21T21:57:33 < antto> and there will still be people who would wanna have "high-dpi" coz.. they're dumb
2020-09-21T21:57:39 < upgrdman> but yes, i too suffer from win10 high-dpi faggotry
2020-09-21T21:58:04 < antto> it's absolutely pointless to have pixels which you can't see
2020-09-21T21:58:21 < antto> unless you can somehow "use them"
2020-09-21T21:58:27 < upgrdman> at least java started to fix win10 high-dpi problems a few years ago. java8 had lots of annoyances with win10 high-dpi issues
2020-09-21T21:58:59 < upgrdman> antto, are you blind? 4k 27" the pixels are still visible. i cant tell the different between AA'd text and non-AA'd text easily.
2020-09-21T21:59:00 < antto> it is like having 192kHz audio for watching movies when you can't hear above 20kHz and you are NOT using the extra audio information in there
2020-09-21T21:59:45 < antto> upgrdman, i may be going blind.. i'm saying.. depending on the human and the purpose and the viewing distance, there is a certain dpi that is "gud enuf" .. above which it starts to get pointless
2020-09-21T21:59:57 < Steffanx> 4k is pretty much good enough.
2020-09-21T22:00:00 < Steffanx> @ 27"
2020-09-21T22:00:13 < antto> i'd get a 4K monitor only if i want more screen size (thus keeping the same DPI as now) but.. then where dafuq would i put that huge thing
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2020-09-21T22:00:32 < antto> Steffanx, if you can't see the pixels it's pointless
2020-09-21T22:00:34 < Steffanx> Trash your CRT. Get some space.
2020-09-21T22:00:42 < Steffanx> i can see them.
2020-09-21T22:00:55 < Steffanx> I just have to get a bit closer
2020-09-21T22:00:55 < antto> i don't have a CRT (well, i do, but it's broken since years)
2020-09-21T22:01:16 < antto> Steffanx, will you "upgrade" to 8k at the same size then?
2020-09-21T22:01:24 < Steffanx> unlikely
2020-09-21T22:01:32 < upgrdman> my boss uses to use a 55" 4k tv as his monitor. he sat 0.5m from it. dunno how he didn't kill his neck
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2020-09-21T22:02:12 < antto> if you need a monitor the size of a school chalkboard, then, uhm..
2020-09-21T22:02:38 < antto> NOT TO MENTION the other huge evilness, glossy screens
2020-09-21T22:02:40 < boddax> iif you look now at CRT's seems to watch acquarium fish
2020-09-21T22:02:40 < upgrdman> i would love a ultrawide that was two 4k monitors glued side by side.
2020-09-21T22:02:59 < antto> prvrtman
2020-09-21T22:03:15 < antto> ;P~
2020-09-21T22:04:21 < antto> lots of image-related tools even in 2020 don't deal with sRGB correctly, like image resampling and sh*t
2020-09-21T22:05:28 < antto> lots of them don't know that 127,127,127 ain't half-way between black and white ;P~
2020-09-21T22:07:24 < antto> half-way is more like 191,191,191-ish
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2020-09-21T22:09:18 < zyp> fucking bullshit
2020-09-21T22:09:46 < zyp> the piece of the drill bit that broke off is stuck in the drill and I can't get it out
2020-09-21T22:10:15 < zyp> disassembled the drill as much as I managed and I still can't get it out
2020-09-21T22:11:15 < Steffanx> :o
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2020-09-21T23:20:50 < upgrdman> hmm. my surface pro 7 ssd can write slightly faster than my desktop's ssd. TFW your tablet pc can outperform your desktop :/
2020-09-21T23:21:31 < upgrdman> it is cute to see how fast the fan ramps up to 100% though when cpu and ssd are near 100% and gpu at 20%.
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2020-09-21T23:56:25  * antto gives zyp a vacuum clean0r
--- Day changed Tue Sep 22 2020
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2020-09-22T00:17:43 < Cracki> anyone here with experience reading FAT32? I have a zoom h4n audio recorder and they're trying to tell me that reading an empty card takes O(card size) time, while a competitor (tascam) has no such problems that I've heard of, so either they have a faster processor (for reading ~4 MB of FAT and a few sectors of directory entries) or they are smarter about reading the structures
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2020-09-22T00:19:04 < Cracki> I'd like opinions on whether they do something stupid or whether a slower microcontroller is to blame (I'd assume they use comparable controllers)
2020-09-22T00:22:40 < Cracki> they could just read the directory tree, then for every file chase the FAT... if the FS is corrupted, i.e. some files are in the fat but not the directory tree, that'd be a problem, to be avoided by checking the FAT before writing a supposedly empty cluster
2020-09-22T00:22:46 < Cracki> or am I missing something
2020-09-22T00:26:06 < Cracki> I'm sure arduino libraries aren't a benchmark because those people are usually retarded... but arduinos are used to handle SD cards so that would be a sanity check hardware-wise
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2020-09-22T00:38:51 < Cracki> it takes precisely O(number of clusters) time. they're actually scanning the whole thing.
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2020-09-22T00:46:31 < karlp> bargain! "Spend another € 180,99 to get € 0,86 off"
2020-09-22T00:46:50 < kakinull> yes!
2020-09-22T00:49:57 < Steffanx> Time for a group buy 
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2020-09-22T00:58:42 < t4nk_freenode> Hellyeah, I want some of that too!
2020-09-22T00:58:56 < kakinull> what are you buing?
2020-09-22T00:59:15 < t4nk_freenode> doesn't matter man, with such an offer you can't go wrong ;)
2020-09-22T00:59:29 < kakinull> samtec connectors?
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2020-09-22T01:02:50 < Steffanx> *scamtec 
2020-09-22T01:05:27 < karlp> "stuff"
2020-09-22T01:06:12 < karlp> bought a bt rx/tx set, a bt dongle for my pc, a gd32v board, some spare cp2102 dongles, and a usb webcam, to try and test out this CV shit while I figure out what I've got wrong with the CSI camera shitts
2020-09-22T01:07:56 < ds2> CSI camera?
2020-09-22T01:08:06 < ds2> what's people doing for docs on those
2020-09-22T01:08:07 < ds2> ?
2020-09-22T01:17:08 < aandrew> very little
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2020-09-22T02:57:15 < Cracki> TIL: mini kiwis https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Actinidia_arguta
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2020-09-22T12:05:48 < karlp> thanks crack, TIL that italy is the biggest kiwi producer in the world
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2020-09-22T18:49:53 < karlp> guess everyone's busy today then
2020-09-22T18:51:01 < zyp> apparently
2020-09-22T18:52:45 < antto> guess again
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2020-09-22T18:55:04 < englishman> https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-wales-54239180
2020-09-22T18:56:03 < karlp> what sort of broadband was that?!
2020-09-22T18:57:59 < englishman> the original broadband? ISDN maybe
2020-09-22T19:07:53 < zyp> since it was a tv, perhaps docsis?
2020-09-22T19:11:22 < rajkosto> was the tv adding the interference through the coax ?
2020-09-22T19:11:36 < rajkosto> or was it somehow doing it over the air, and the internet was wireless ?
2020-09-22T19:11:47 < rajkosto> was it a giant ass CRT with a bad arcing flyback transformer that was just ruining everything ?
2020-09-22T19:11:51 < rajkosto> MORE INFORMATION PLEASE
2020-09-22T19:12:06 < rajkosto> if it was interfering through the coax they could have just added a back-blocking filter so it can still be used
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2020-09-22T19:36:19 < bitmask> not sure how well it will work at 3k rpm but i like it
2020-09-22T19:36:20 < bitmask> https://i.imgur.com/FXfn8MY.png
2020-09-22T19:40:01 < Steffanx> Reminds me of my 3d printed air raid siren. Turned on once, to never do it again 
2020-09-22T19:40:07 < Steffanx> Scary shit
2020-09-22T19:40:07 < bitmask> :)
2020-09-22T19:40:10 < bitmask> yea
2020-09-22T19:40:25 < bitmask> I might put this inside a 5 gallon bucket :P
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2020-09-22T20:16:12 < Cracki> ah the spin coater
2020-09-22T20:16:47 < Cracki> 3d printing really is an alluring hammer. I might have taken a plastic bucket and cut it down
2020-09-22T20:17:04 < karlp> how long did that take to print?
2020-09-22T20:17:19 < karlp> I don't even think of "I could just 3d print that"
2020-09-22T20:17:27 < karlp> almost never at least, sometimes I do
2020-09-22T20:17:31 < Cracki> when I had immediate access to a 3d printer I printed everything I could think of... took me a while to wake up and use existing materials (or wood)
2020-09-22T20:22:12 < upgrdman> https://www.reddit.com/r/hmmm/comments/ixhq7l/hmmm/
2020-09-22T20:22:56 < Cracki> >forbidden yaoi
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2020-09-22T20:26:32 < Cracki> https://www.reddit.com/r/memes/comments/ixnf1w/equal_opportunity/
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2020-09-22T20:56:56 < upgrdman> wow, samsung just announced the 980 PRO ssd... perfect timing
2020-09-22T20:57:13 < upgrdman> "Samsung says the 980 Pro can go on a tear with sequential read / write speeds of up to 7,000MB/s and 5,000MB/s, respectively."
2020-09-22T20:58:03 < Cracki> as predicted yesterday :D
2020-09-22T20:58:18 < Cracki> lol wtf 7 GB/s
2020-09-22T21:00:08 < upgrdman> that kinda reminds me... wtf do servers with 40Gbps ethernet do to fill that pipe... massive raid arrays reading/writing in parallel?
2020-09-22T21:04:06 < Steffanx> write to RAM and ... than store it?
2020-09-22T21:07:14 < boddax> matrix read n write
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2020-09-22T21:16:30 < bitmask> karlp not that long, 4-5 hours for the shield and base (each) and like an hour or two for the spinny bits
2020-09-22T21:20:41 < karlp> like sequential reads matter after the first week when the wear leveller has spread yoru data all over the place.
2020-09-22T21:31:21 < upgrdman> heh, i listed my old samsung note5 on ebay... someone already bid $100 for it. wow.
2020-09-22T21:31:38 < upgrdman> a 5 year old smartphone, used, and someone is willing to pay at least $100 for it
2020-09-22T21:48:57 < Steffanx> Yeah i like your phone
2020-09-22T22:01:19 < rajkosto> a note5 is worth way more than 100$
2020-09-22T22:07:09 < jpa-> karlp: doesn't wear leveller work in such large blocks that it is effectively sequential anyway?
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2020-09-22T22:12:40 < Cracki> I know of a 10G piped server that served torrents (of debian stale or sth)
2020-09-22T22:12:48 < Cracki> and they packed it full of ram so it could serve from ram
2020-09-22T22:13:39 < Cracki> they could sustain 5 GB/s from an ssd _today_ but not 5-10 years ago when I last spoke to the one running it
2020-09-22T22:13:51 < Cracki> uh wait ~1 GB/s
2020-09-22T22:14:01 < Cracki> 5 GB/s is 40 Gb/s
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2020-09-22T22:22:55 < Ultrasauce> intel P3608 claims 5000 MBps sequential read
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2020-09-22T22:43:20 < upgrdman> wtf. why wont altium let me draw a silkscreen line at any angle with the spacebar hot key!?
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2020-09-22T23:19:02 < rajkosto> hit tab and configure it ?
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2020-09-22T23:44:18 < karlp> jpa-: not sure, and samsung sure isn't sharing tthat sort of algorithmic details?
2020-09-22T23:45:03 < karlp> I mean, at those speeds, even "big" blocks of a gig are still 1/7 of a second, so you're not really going to sustain much of anything....?
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2020-09-22T23:47:34 < upgrdman> anyone know what the difference is between film caps that looks like this or this: https://www.digikey.com/product-detail/en/illinois-capacitor/474MMR250K/1572-1226-ND/5412597       https://www.digikey.com/product-detail/en/kemet/R60IF3470506AK/399-12469-ND/5730960
2020-09-22T23:47:48 < upgrdman> one loops dipped, one looks potted... but as far as usage goes... any diff?
2020-09-22T23:48:41 < tcth> one explodes more impressively than the other
2020-09-22T23:49:07 < tcth> that´s about all that I can share on this topic
2020-09-22T23:50:23 < rajkosto> they both just have SMD caps soldered to the leads before being dipped :P
2020-09-22T23:51:42 < upgrdman> tcth, which one explodes better
2020-09-22T23:51:50 < tcth> upgrdman, the dipped one
2020-09-22T23:51:54 < upgrdman> k
2020-09-22T23:52:09 < tcth> but this is very small sample set size and most likely biased af opinion
2020-09-22T23:52:52 < tcth> just whenever I saw those film caps fail the dipped once seemed to go more frag-granade than the potted onces which just tend to make a small vent hole themselves
2020-09-22T23:53:12 < tcth> this is anything but scientific tho
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2020-09-22T23:53:39 < upgrdman> k
2020-09-22T23:53:50 < upgrdman> well the board im basing my circuit off of uses both types, lol
2020-09-22T23:54:10 < upgrdman> maybe just whatever was cheap in china on fab day
2020-09-22T23:54:51 < tcth> dunno, maybe there are more subtle difference such as packaging options but I´d assume that both are available on tape. maybe you can get the potted onces also in trays or tubes. better ask englishman 
2020-09-22T23:55:11 < tcth> tape -> belts? 
2020-09-22T23:58:10 < qyx> amo pack or how is that called?
2020-09-22T23:58:40 < qyx> yeah, ammo
--- Day changed Wed Sep 23 2020
2020-09-23T00:00:25 < Ultrasauce> im guessing the plastic encased boxy ones have much better mechanical characteristics
2020-09-23T00:01:42 < Ultrasauce> tighter dimensional tolerances, more robust to vibrations, etc
2020-09-23T00:02:18 < tcth> not sure why you would just mix two different types on a PCB then except for economics
2020-09-23T00:02:24 < tcth> or one of them being in a very tight place :p
2020-09-23T00:02:36 < Ultrasauce> yeah it was totally availability / pricing
2020-09-23T00:09:57 < qyx> idk if looks legit https://i.imgur.com/xT8VLFs.png
2020-09-23T00:14:56 < Cracki> pcie vape card?
2020-09-23T00:15:09 < Cracki> self destruct?
2020-09-23T00:17:05 < qyx> half-match
2020-09-23T00:17:19 < qyx> i am curious if chinamen will want to manufacture such pcb
2020-09-23T00:17:28 < qyx> and if it Crackies or not
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2020-09-23T01:09:15 < tcth> qyx, what am I looking at?
2020-09-23T01:10:12 < zyp> plug in card with battery sockets, batteries lowered into pcb cutouts to reduce overall height
2020-09-23T01:10:38 < tcth> yeah more like what the board is designed to do
2020-09-23T01:11:22 < zyp> battery power supply card for qyx' instrumentation subrack
2020-09-23T01:11:46 < tcth> nice!
2020-09-23T01:12:08 < qyx> thank you, zyp
2020-09-23T01:14:23 < zyp> apparently I can buy a brand new screw compressor from china for about the same amount that'll get me some old one in unknown condition on the local secondhand market
2020-09-23T01:15:08 < zyp> next time I'm drilling rock I'm almost tempted to buy instead of renting, and resell after
2020-09-23T01:18:28 < Ecco> Hey :)
2020-09-23T01:19:01 < Ecco> I'm trying to figure out how much current goes into the ADC pin (not VDDa nor Vref)
2020-09-23T01:19:08 < Ecco> And for some reason I can't find it in the datashet
2020-09-23T01:20:35 < Ecco> oh, I think I got this. So correct me if I'm wrong: the datasheets gives info for AC signals entering the ADC
2020-09-23T01:20:51 < Ecco> If I'm interested in a DC signal, I should just look at the "base" resistance of the ADC
2020-09-23T01:21:28 < Ecco> Which is said to be between 1 and 6 kOhm
2020-09-23T01:22:18 < Ecco> so a voltage of 3V would draw around 1 mA?
2020-09-23T01:22:33 < aandrew> qyx: looks like a PCIe 18650 battery holder
2020-09-23T01:23:12 < Ecco> oh well no, actually, they give an impedence formula, and apparently it's more-or-less infinite if the signal's frequency is zero
2020-09-23T01:23:25 < Ecco> So how do I know about the leakage current for a DC signal fed into the ADC?
2020-09-23T01:24:03  * Ecco is confusion
2020-09-23T01:26:08 < tcth> Ecco, a modern ADC should have pretty high input impedance (for DC). As in: >1Mohm
2020-09-23T01:26:25 < tcth> or at least a few hundred k I´d expect.
2020-09-23T01:38:31 < Ultrasauce> leakage current is specified, on the order of a couple uA
2020-09-23T01:40:12 < zyp> tcth, uh, isn't shit like 20k common?
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2020-09-23T01:55:24 < zyp> also, even if you feed a constant DC signal into the ADC, the ADC won't load it constantly
2020-09-23T01:56:48 < zyp> it'll load it when sampling
2020-09-23T01:57:24 < aandrew> correct, it periodically connects the sampling capacitor and if your source's impedance is high you won't get accurate readings which is why everyone recommends connecting the ADC input to the output of even a cheap as shit opamp voltage follower
2020-09-23T01:57:56 < zyp> or you can just throw a cap in parallel with the input
2020-09-23T01:58:11 < zyp> I mean, this usually comes up when sizing a voltage divider in front of the input
2020-09-23T01:58:24 < aandrew> you could do that too but now you have just introduced crazy slewing if your input is changing rapidly or you're muxing
2020-09-23T01:58:49 < aandrew> spend the $0.10 and put a cheap SOT23-5 or SC70-5 R2R opamp in front of the ADC
2020-09-23T01:59:08 < zyp> Ecco stated DC signal
2020-09-23T01:59:18 < zyp> e.g. battery voltage, I guess
2020-09-23T02:00:41 < zyp> I don't see how muxing matters, unless you mean putting the mux in front of the capacitor
2020-09-23T02:00:52 < zyp> which makes no sense at all
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2020-09-23T02:05:58 < aandrew> yep in front is what I meant
2020-09-23T02:06:08 < aandrew> if you are using the internal mux and each line has its own cap it's no issue
2020-09-23T02:07:51 < zyp> this is a common issue when people want to sample battery voltage
2020-09-23T02:08:17 < Cracki> even a quasi constant battery voltage signal shouldn't be too high impedance
2020-09-23T02:08:56 < Cracki> because the adc keeps sampling on it, and that capacitor in the adc isn't staying at the voltage it's just sampled, it gets used
2020-09-23T02:09:14 < Cracki> (or do what he says and use opamp to buffer)
2020-09-23T02:09:24 < zyp> battery voltage is usually higher than ADC range so you need a divider, you don't want the divider to drain the battery but you also don't want the ADC sample current to fuck up the divider ratio
2020-09-23T02:09:32 < Cracki> right
2020-09-23T02:10:00 < Cracki> so sample for a long time, and only once in a while
2020-09-23T02:10:21 < zyp> so you put a capacitor after the divider, divider charges capacitor slowly and capacitor is large enough that the sample current don't drain it much
2020-09-23T02:10:33 < Cracki> if the same adc has to sample battery voltage and some fast signal, that's a bad idea. it's a good idea to group slow signals on one ADC and fast ones on another
2020-09-23T02:11:14 < Cracki> the extra cap allows you to sample for a shorter time because it's effectively become part of the adc's cap
2020-09-23T02:11:36 < Cracki> sampling, with or without extra cap, drains the same current
2020-09-23T02:12:16 < zyp> no, the point is that the external cap will be charged even when the ADC is not sampling
2020-09-23T02:12:24 < Cracki> yes
2020-09-23T02:12:34 < Cracki> (that's agreement)
2020-09-23T02:12:52 < Cracki> so it's the same as sampling for very long
2020-09-23T02:14:02 < zyp> it's the same as sampling continously
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2020-09-23T02:14:59 < zyp> I mean, the external cap wouldn't matter if you were sampling continously
2020-09-23T02:15:01 < Cracki> I understand sampling to mean opening the input to the sampling cap, and at the end of sampling, that's cut off and the sampling cap is evaluated
2020-09-23T02:15:04 < Cracki> which drains it
2020-09-23T02:15:34 < Cracki> drains or otherwise changes its charge
2020-09-23T02:16:25 < Cracki> let's say sampling happens once a second.
2020-09-23T02:16:37 < zyp> okay, yeah, I see where you're going
2020-09-23T02:16:42 < Cracki> sampling for the whole second _should be_ equivalent to sampling briefly, but with an extra cap
2020-09-23T02:17:07 < Cracki> because the source is supplying that extra cap continuously
2020-09-23T02:17:22 < zyp> once sampling time is long enough for the internal cap to settle, you don't need external cap
2020-09-23T02:17:43 < Cracki> *nod*
2020-09-23T02:18:38 < Cracki> and if one sampled at, say, 100 khz, no matter how long the sampling time (bounded by frequency anyway), that would put a strain on the source regardless of extra cap
2020-09-23T02:20:32 < Cracki> tesla shareholder meeting rn, I think he's saying they need 100x the battery mfg capacity and that'll be expensive
2020-09-23T02:20:58 < zyp> yeah, that's what I meant before, extra cap won't help if you're sampling continously, it only helps when it can recharge between sampling
2020-09-23T02:21:13 < Cracki> I wonder how long it'll take them all to figure out that "batteries" need to be obsoleted by something that's an order of magnitude more capable and easier to make
2020-09-23T02:21:41 < Cracki> they should work on modern fission reactors and fusion reactors
2020-09-23T02:23:26 < aandrew> the external cap is also probably WAY larger than the sampling cap
2020-09-23T02:23:47 < aandrew> so the transfer of charge from the holding cap to the sampling cap will not only be fast, but won't significantly drain the holding cap
2020-09-23T02:24:29 < zyp> I just figure that since battery voltage changes slowly, you don't need to sample it often, once every few seconds is more than enough, so you can use pretty large resistances for the divider
2020-09-23T02:24:49 < aandrew> yep
2020-09-23T02:24:50 < Cracki> lol elon nerding out, explaining 18650 is silly, it's 18 and 65 mm, the zero does nothing, let's call them 1865
2020-09-23T02:25:09 < aandrew> well it could be a matter of resolution
2020-09-23T02:25:13 < zyp> and while you in theory probably could achieve the same by selecting a sample time of multiple seconds, you probably don't want to
2020-09-23T02:25:15 < aandrew> 18650 = 18 x 65.0
2020-09-23T02:25:20 < Cracki> 18.0 x 65.0
2020-09-23T02:25:49 < Cracki> they vary a lot more in length (protection circus) than diameter so I'd expect diameter to have decimals
2020-09-23T02:26:11 < Cracki> I guess it's a "historical" progression of numbers
2020-09-23T02:26:56 < Cracki> all of those have whole integer dimensions, in the name https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_battery_sizes#Lithium-ion_batteries_(rechargeable)
2020-09-23T02:27:17 < Cracki> 40152 is the only weird one
2020-09-23T02:27:25 < Cracki> which is 152 mm long
2020-09-23T02:27:53 < Cracki> 32650 is 67.7 mm long but the name doesn't say that ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
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2020-09-23T02:48:21 < Cracki> hihihi his stage partner is prompting, proctoring, pacing him all the time
2020-09-23T03:12:27 < jadew> morning
2020-09-23T03:12:30 < jadew> what's up?
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2020-09-23T03:20:09 < Cracki> watching this https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l6T9xIeZTds
2020-09-23T03:20:26 < Cracki> I skipped into the middle, maybe I'll watch the first half later
2020-09-23T03:20:58 < Cracki> they're reinventing lithium battery processes
2020-09-23T03:21:40 < Cracki> they'll extract lithium from clay with nothing but salt, and they have the rights so some area of nevada desert that's enough to make car batteries for all the cars in the US
2020-09-23T03:22:25 < Cracki> they'll do nickel electrodes with no chemistry
2020-09-23T03:22:35 < Cracki> (or something close to that)
2020-09-23T03:22:56 < Cracki> i.e. drastically reduced or no chemical waste
2020-09-23T03:23:39 < Cracki> they'll prefer to recycle batteries rather than take raw materials in because the ore is less dense in raw materials than an old battery
2020-09-23T03:25:15 < specing> Cracki: the cells dont vary much in length
2020-09-23T03:25:38 < specing> the protection is added by third parties and the result is a battery containing a 18650 cell
2020-09-23T03:25:41 < Cracki> oh right they said fuckit to their 21700 cells and are now doing extra fat cells
2020-09-23T03:26:22 < Cracki> and they said fuckit to individual tabs on the laminate, and now made cells that are incredibly high current and hardly heat up at all
2020-09-23T03:29:18 < Cracki> lots of cool stuff
2020-09-23T03:29:41 < specing> I saw these and laughed: https://pushevs.com/2020/08/26/wuling-hong-guang-mini-ev-had-a-strong-first-full-sales-month/
2020-09-23T03:29:47 < specing> but china has got it going
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2020-09-23T03:30:13 < specing> these look like toy cars that someone happened to upscale *100
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2020-09-23T04:46:41 < Cracki> cars for overpopulated areas
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2020-09-23T04:47:21 < Cracki> to a murican that's a toy but to them it's practical. it doesn't have to go fast. it's an e-bike "booth"
2020-09-23T04:50:08 < jadew> looks like a death trap
2020-09-23T04:50:59 < Cracki> wew elon aims for a $25k EV
2020-09-23T04:52:01 < jadew> he has to, otherwise he'll be stuck in the luxury segment
2020-09-23T04:52:03 < Cracki> lol "model s-plat", wonder if it goes splat
2020-09-23T04:52:21 < Cracki> "has to"
2020-09-23T04:52:34 < Cracki> well that's the remaining market, the cheap cars
2020-09-23T04:52:43 < Cracki> if he wants to grow, that's obviously the direction
2020-09-23T04:52:55 < jadew> everyone does it
2020-09-23T04:53:11 < Cracki> I don't see everyone else having much real success
2020-09-23T04:53:18 < Cracki> shit's selling but they're toys
2020-09-23T04:53:23 < Cracki> sound like plastic too
2020-09-23T04:53:36 < jadew> heh
2020-09-23T04:53:38 < Cracki> made attractive to hippies only
2020-09-23T04:53:52 < jadew> we're considering getting a new car, but I don't think it's going to be electric
2020-09-23T04:53:54 < Cracki> tesla wanted to make a *car*. people buy that.
2020-09-23T04:54:08 < jadew> yeah
2020-09-23T04:54:29 < Cracki> ye if I had to get a car now I'd probably lease something fossil based
2020-09-23T04:54:46 < Cracki> or plonk down the money for a tesla, _maybe_
2020-09-23T04:54:57 < jadew> why lease?
2020-09-23T04:54:59 < Cracki> I have really no need for a car
2020-09-23T04:55:10 < Cracki> if I needed one I'd rent one real quick
2020-09-23T04:55:27 < Cracki> if the job needed me to have one, they would probably lease it
2020-09-23T04:55:35 < jadew> ah, right
2020-09-23T04:56:36 < Cracki> cost vs benefit. owning one would make sense if renting/leasing x use > buying and maintaining
2020-09-23T04:57:02 < jadew> I always thought leasing is more expensive in the end
2020-09-23T04:57:38 < Cracki> if I had to travel a lot, I'd maybe consider owning one, also for hygiene reasons. I wouldn't wanna sit in a car other people have done unspeakable things in
2020-09-23T04:57:43 < Cracki> dunno
2020-09-23T04:57:56 < Cracki> it probably is
2020-09-23T04:58:11 < Cracki> in leasing you pay for _them_ to take care of (service) the thing
2020-09-23T04:58:53 < jadew> ah, didn't know they take care of the maintenance
2020-09-23T04:59:17 < Cracki> otherwise you'd have someone in the company to worry about maintenance (either a mechanic or someone who engages a repair shop)
2020-09-23T04:59:25 < Cracki> I have no clue but afaik they do
2020-09-23T04:59:27 < jadew> that could be worth it, although, with most new cars you get a few years of free revisions I think
2020-09-23T04:59:56 < Cracki> hm, weird, here they say you're responsible for maintenance, I wonder what that entails, and doesn't entail
2020-09-23T05:00:54 < Cracki> ok so I misunderstood a few things there... now I gotta figure out how leasing isn't just monthly payments
2020-09-23T05:01:27 < Cracki> ah, "financing" is paying for the whole thing, leasing is paying for the _use_ of it
2020-09-23T05:02:17 < Cracki> should be the same amount (because the owner has to cover the cost regardless), but leasing doesn't imply that you get ownership eventually
2020-09-23T05:02:56 < jadew> oh, interesting
2020-09-23T05:03:00 < jadew> in here you do
2020-09-23T05:03:16 < jadew> (I think)
2020-09-23T05:03:23 < Cracki> so leasing, you can do for a few years, and then they have a used car and some money, and have to figure out how to handle that
2020-09-23T05:03:25 < jadew> I'll have to ask a friend who worked in leasing
2020-09-23T05:03:37 < jadew> he was telling me that people who lease sometimes they just abandon the car
2020-09-23T05:04:03 < Cracki> if you buy/finance a car, and you want to get rid of it, you could pay it all and then sell it or sth, or find someone to buy the contract?
2020-09-23T05:04:37 < Cracki> ye i've heard of leasing where, when you've paid the full price, you become owner
2020-09-23T05:05:00 < jadew> but that sounds like what you're describing financing to be
2020-09-23T05:05:03 < Cracki> but it's a contract designed with the expectation that you want to end it before you've paid for the whole car
2020-09-23T05:05:15 < jadew> I see
2020-09-23T05:05:26 < Cracki> where financing has the goal of you paying for the whole thing and then owning it
2020-09-23T05:05:35 < Cracki> ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
2020-09-23T05:05:50 < Cracki> not my problem, not now at least
2020-09-23T05:06:16 < Cracki> some people have to travel by train for business. I pity them.
2020-09-23T05:06:44 < Cracki> first class has its advantages. no plebs to annoy you.
2020-09-23T05:06:56 < jadew> not in here
2020-09-23T05:07:24 < Cracki> but all the people I know who fanboy over riding train are insufferable pseudohippies who incorporate riding train into their identity
2020-09-23T05:07:32 < jadew> I rode first class once and people who couldn't obtain a ticket with a seat, would just come to first class
2020-09-23T05:07:36 < Cracki> lol
2020-09-23T05:07:42 < Cracki> here the conductor would kick them out
2020-09-23T05:08:21 < jadew> maybe that one ride was special, I'd expect that to happen here as well
2020-09-23T05:08:55 < Cracki> they don't do shit if you have retards telephoning or having a crying baby in the "quiet" 2nd class cars
2020-09-23T05:09:43 < jadew> pretty sure I rode the train in Germany, but I don't remember what it was like
2020-09-23T05:09:51 < Cracki> if the conductor shows up to check the ticket (which sometimes doesn't happen), he might kick those people out
2020-09-23T05:10:21 < Cracki> if they're peaceful, nobody would dare "snitch" on someone who doesn't belong. germans aren't allowed to want order.
2020-09-23T05:10:23 < jadew> we don't have a quiet zone (as far as I know)
2020-09-23T05:10:35 < Cracki> intercity has quiet cars
2020-09-23T05:10:59 < Cracki> regular car but dark blue decor and impossible to notice little stickers that say no telephones
2020-09-23T05:11:07 < Cracki> not a sleeper car
2020-09-23T05:11:49 < Cracki> regional express and lesser grades is basically long distance subway/metro
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2020-09-23T05:12:55 < jadew> I've never been in a sleeper car
2020-09-23T05:13:28 < Cracki> I think I haven't either. at best cars with closed off 6-seat cabins
2020-09-23T05:13:38 < jadew> not sure I'd want to sleep in the same bed so many people have probably masturbated and jizzed on the walls
2020-09-23T05:13:51 < Cracki> car was nearly empty, sleeping was definitely possible
2020-09-23T05:14:04 < Cracki> eh don't worry they change the linens :>
2020-09-23T05:14:24 < jadew> sure... but what about the walls? :D
2020-09-23T05:14:35 < Cracki> I think those are with reservation only, and overnight means 6+ hours of continuous occupancy
2020-09-23T05:14:42 < Cracki> the walls are lava
2020-09-23T05:15:22 < jadew> I'm off to bed
2020-09-23T05:15:35 < Cracki> good night
2020-09-23T05:16:03 < jadew> night
--- Log closed Wed Sep 23 05:21:17 2020
--- Log opened Wed Sep 23 05:21:27 2020
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2020-09-23T11:30:28 < invzim> anyone done audio in/out with stm32 and can suggest a family with adc/dac?
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2020-09-23T11:34:03 < qyx> aandrew: correct, it uses PCIe x1 connectors
2020-09-23T11:42:13 < Steffanx> My audio in/out was all i2s ;)
2020-09-23T11:48:07 < invzim> Steffanx: any good adc/dac parts?  Was looking at a TI thingie, and the external component count was stupidly high
2020-09-23T11:49:08 < invzim> looking to stereofy a mono signal, and looks like a simple delay on one channel is the way to go
2020-09-23T11:52:08 < Steffanx> Used a TAD5805M, but that might be a bit too much for your needs
2020-09-23T11:52:14 < Steffanx> TAS*
2020-09-23T11:55:14 < invzim> interesting part!
2020-09-23T11:59:36 < qyx> once I designed something with ti-something-something-320
2020-09-23T11:59:48 < qyx> but never managed to make a proto
2020-09-23T12:00:30 < qyx> TLV320AIC family it was
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2020-09-23T12:03:35 < qyx> looks like it needs only a couple of caps
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2020-09-23T12:14:35 < jadew> https://i.imgur.com/pwyJbzb.png
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2020-09-23T14:10:19 < Mangy_Dog> ummmm can anyone tell me why turning on lot would stop stlink from programming the chip?
2020-09-23T14:11:30 < karlp> can you try describing that a bit more?
2020-09-23T14:11:44 < qyx> turning on what?
2020-09-23T14:12:21 < qyx> looks like nkon is on the way, yay
2020-09-23T14:13:16 < Mangy_Dog> LTO sorry, Im trying to figure out why an empty sketch takes 10kb without a bootloader, and why one of my init tests for the display project takes 30kb, which doesnt leave me much for a rtos, and the rest of the code...... Anyway tested LTO and it shrunk the size right down, but now I cant program the chip any more....
2020-09-23T14:15:35 < Mangy_Dog> btw the same init code only takes 9kb in arduino avr
2020-09-23T14:16:57 < PaulFertser> Mangy_Dog: lto doesn't affect stlink programming anyhow. You can always connect reset line between stlink and the target and stlink will be able to reflash no matter what's there on the chip.
2020-09-23T14:17:17 < Mangy_Dog> ive not exposed the reset pin
2020-09-23T14:17:26 < Mangy_Dog> ie not needed it before for stlink so i didnt use it :/
2020-09-23T14:17:32 < Mangy_Dog> board space is super tight
2020-09-23T14:17:57 < PaulFertser> Mangy_Dog: what about BOOT0 pin?
2020-09-23T14:18:57 < Mangy_Dog> pulled low on the pcb
2020-09-23T14:19:08 < PaulFertser> Mangy_Dog: via a resistor or shorted to gnd?
2020-09-23T14:19:14 < Mangy_Dog> shorted
2020-09-23T14:19:27 < PaulFertser> Damn man
2020-09-23T14:19:58 < PaulFertser> Mangy_Dog: what about the reset pin, just floating?
2020-09-23T14:20:08 < Mangy_Dog> pulled up via 10k
2020-09-23T14:20:21 < PaulFertser> Mangy_Dog: so you can solder a wire to that resistor
2020-09-23T14:20:40 < Mangy_Dog> and poke it to ground
2020-09-23T14:20:46 < PaulFertser> Mangy_Dog: better connect to stlink
2020-09-23T14:20:52 < PaulFertser> And tell stlink to use it
2020-09-23T14:21:11 < PaulFertser> Manually connecting to gnd will work too but you'll need to deassert it at exactly the right time.
2020-09-23T14:22:50 < Mangy_Dog> remind me when i make future boards to expose the reset pin to the programmer break out :D
2020-09-23T14:23:23 < Mangy_Dog> also that resistor is a 0402
2020-09-23T14:34:50 < Mangy_Dog> hmmmm
2020-09-23T14:34:56 < Mangy_Dog> resetting isnt working D:
2020-09-23T14:36:52 < karlp> I'd imagine that you ran into LTO optimizing your code by simply deleting it.
2020-09-23T14:37:18 < Mangy_Dog> quite possibly
2020-09-23T14:38:02 < Mangy_Dog> but why would that stop the st link connecting to it
2020-09-23T14:38:05 < Mangy_Dog> even with reset pin set
2020-09-23T14:40:27 < Mangy_Dog> how fast is the reset pulse?
2020-09-23T14:40:37 < Mangy_Dog> i cant see it drop on the ocilli
2020-09-23T14:40:49 < zyp> what reset pulse?
2020-09-23T14:41:11 < Mangy_Dog> hardware reset pulse on the reset pin
2020-09-23T14:41:39 < zyp> from the stlink?
2020-09-23T14:41:43 < Mangy_Dog> yes
2020-09-23T14:41:53 < zyp> have you configured it to send one?
2020-09-23T14:42:28 < Mangy_Dog> reset mode hardware reset?
2020-09-23T14:42:59 < zyp> IME it's usually disabled by default, it's only needed for special cases and sometimes you want to attach to a running system without resetting it
2020-09-23T14:43:35 < Mangy_Dog> this is one of those cases
2020-09-23T14:44:01 < Mangy_Dog> ive bricked the chip some how by selecting lto in tyhe compile
2020-09-23T14:44:15 < Mangy_Dog> cant connect or reprogram it
2020-09-23T14:44:18 < Mangy_Dog> now
2020-09-23T14:44:22 < zyp> generally you only need to attach under reset if the system does something that disables SWD access, i.e. either configure the pins for something else, go to sleep or fuck up the entire system clock
2020-09-23T14:44:47 < Mangy_Dog> all the above....
2020-09-23T14:44:51 < zyp> LTO by itself shouldn't do either of these things
2020-09-23T14:45:02 < Mangy_Dog> something happened
2020-09-23T14:45:29 < zyp> have you tried powercycling both the device and the stlink?
2020-09-23T14:45:37 < Mangy_Dog> yep
2020-09-23T14:54:48 < PaulFertser> Mangy_Dog: no, no matter what you flash to the target you should still be able to attach SWD under reset.
2020-09-23T14:56:30 < zyp> unless you flash something that self-enables ROP or some shit, but that's also not gonna happen simply by enabling LTO :p
2020-09-23T14:57:00 < zyp> ROP level 2, that is
2020-09-23T14:58:02 < Mangy_Dog> right
2020-09-23T14:58:10 < Mangy_Dog> hardware reset pin didnt seem to do anything on my st link
2020-09-23T14:58:15 < Mangy_Dog> ended up just touching ground
2020-09-23T14:58:29 < Mangy_Dog> managed to get it to connect and erase the chip
2020-09-23T14:58:33 < Mangy_Dog> its behaving again now
2020-09-23T15:00:39 < Mangy_Dog> maybe my stlink clone dongle doesnt use reset pin properly
2020-09-23T15:00:41 < Mangy_Dog> who knows
2020-09-23T15:02:28 < karlp> top notch clone hardware, super dependable. super savings.
2020-09-23T15:04:07 < Mangy_Dog> what do you use?#
2020-09-23T15:16:25 < PaulFertser> Mangy_Dog: some stlink clones are indeed having reset misrouted!
2020-09-23T15:17:54 < Mangy_Dog> ahhaa
2020-09-23T15:18:23 < PaulFertser> But with fixed firmware they should be as good as originals.
2020-09-23T15:20:10 < karlp> Mangy_Dog: the stlink on the end of a disco/nucleo board.
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2020-09-23T16:08:56 < qyx> 26.986 On Order, 11.986 Expected 4/5/2021
2020-09-23T16:08:59 < qyx> fuk TI
2020-09-23T16:25:06 < Steffanx> invzim:  the input was a mux.
2020-09-23T16:25:47 < Steffanx> Pcm1863
2020-09-23T16:25:52 < Steffanx> I recall
2020-09-23T16:26:09 < Steffanx> Mux/adc/front end
2020-09-23T16:43:03 < Mangy_Dog> untill i figure out why LTO is breaking my mcu im a bit stuck with a flash space issue.... things are going to be super tight.  and i need an rtos... I was going to go with freertos but that has a rather high overhead on flash.  Then i remember chibiOS is meant to be smaller... SOoooo, What do you recommend? i need basic thread control with thread releasing delay tools and irq. Threads that 
2020-09-23T16:43:03 < Mangy_Dog> can run forever in there own locked off whileloop. 
2020-09-23T17:06:37 < Steffanx> Lto is known to break bad code 😉
2020-09-23T17:07:34 < Mangy_Dog> joy
2020-09-23T17:10:09 < Steffanx> Optimizing for size already?
2020-09-23T17:11:45 < Mangy_Dog> ?
2020-09-23T17:12:03 < Mangy_Dog> sure as i work on my project theres things i can optimise
2020-09-23T17:12:36 < Mangy_Dog> my UI stuff at the moment is treating each page as its own set of code, and there could end up being duplicate widgets... I can make a commen widget set to get called on
2020-09-23T17:12:57 < Mangy_Dog> but ive not made multiple pages just yet :p
2020-09-23T17:12:59 < Mangy_Dog> well 
2020-09-23T17:13:00 < Mangy_Dog> 2
2020-09-23T17:23:50 < zyp> is freertos size really that significant?
2020-09-23T17:24:45 < Mangy_Dog> its 10kb
2020-09-23T17:24:58 < Mangy_Dog> my display init test code is nearly 30kb already
2020-09-23T17:25:01 < zyp> with what features enabled?
2020-09-23T17:25:19 < Mangy_Dog> tbh not sure im certain i can turn stuff off
2020-09-23T17:25:40 < qyx> 30k with freertos and graphics is ~okish
2020-09-23T17:25:45 < Mangy_Dog> but that only leaves me 34kb to write ALL my code and the rest of the display UI stuff........ and led sequinces
2020-09-23T17:25:50 < zyp> sure you can, that's why there's a config file full of ENABLE defines
2020-09-23T17:25:59 < Mangy_Dog> thats just init code not the whole finished UI
2020-09-23T17:26:37 < zyp> maybe you should try laks, I have whole projects coming in at less than 10k :p
2020-09-23T17:26:52 < Mangy_Dog> tbh one thing that could scrape back 10kb is if i could figure out how to disable the usb stack being compiled as im not suing it
2020-09-23T17:27:01 < Mangy_Dog> laks
2020-09-23T17:27:02 < Mangy_Dog> ?
2020-09-23T17:27:31 < zyp> https://cgit.jvnv.net/laks/
2020-09-23T17:28:16 < zyp> it's sort of a rtos, it's common code shared across my project
2020-09-23T17:28:21 < zyp> projects
2020-09-23T17:28:32 < qyx> including rock drilling project, etc.
2020-09-23T17:28:43 < Mangy_Dog> :o
2020-09-23T17:28:46 < mawk> what does the acronym mean?
2020-09-23T17:28:53 < zyp> it's not an acronym
2020-09-23T17:28:55 < mawk> :(
2020-09-23T17:29:04 < Steffanx> What does mawk mean?
2020-09-23T17:29:08 < mawk> I don't know
2020-09-23T17:29:11 < mawk> I stole the nick
2020-09-23T17:29:11 < Mangy_Dog> anyway i need multi thread control even one thread for something as stupid as a buzzer trigger
2020-09-23T17:29:13 < Steffanx> :(
2020-09-23T17:29:21 < mawk> the guy is dead so it's not really stealing anyway
2020-09-23T17:29:24 < mawk> it's an hommage
2020-09-23T17:29:38 < zyp> Mangy_Dog, yeah, laks has multithreading
2020-09-23T17:29:54 < qyx> you know threads are goto of the 21st century
2020-09-23T17:30:05 < karlp> fuckoff
2020-09-23T17:30:07 < qyx> :D
2020-09-23T17:30:23 < zyp> I don't use it in any actual projects, but I were planning to early on, so I made a context switcher and a simple thread scheduler
2020-09-23T17:30:48 < Mangy_Dog> i was using arduino thread schedular before on the first tricorder version
2020-09-23T17:31:00 < Mangy_Dog> but as im now running the UI directly I need thread control to make it easier basically
2020-09-23T17:31:08 < qyx> theres "for OEM use only, if you can see this label, do not use!"
2020-09-23T17:31:11 < Mangy_Dog> even with that schedular i was still working in non blocking code methods
2020-09-23T17:31:15 < Mangy_Dog> cant really do that any more
2020-09-23T17:31:47 < Mangy_Dog> so now i need threads that basically run on there own now and do there own thing
2020-09-23T17:31:55 < Mangy_Dog> without fear of blocking anything
2020-09-23T17:32:05 < zyp> well, yeah, I support that
2020-09-23T17:32:56 < Mangy_Dog> tbh if i can fix this large export code issue and if lto worked... id just use freertos
2020-09-23T17:33:30 < zyp> https://cgit.jvnv.net/laks_demo/tree/main.cpp?h=qemu <- here's some simple code that starts a couple of extra threads
2020-09-23T17:33:47 < Mangy_Dog> simple!
2020-09-23T17:33:59 < Mangy_Dog> thats not so bad actually
2020-09-23T17:34:14 < Mangy_Dog> tbh the real issue is it needs to work in rogerclarks core
2020-09-23T17:34:38 < Mangy_Dog> even cubeMX has setups for freertos and chibi but that breaks the graphics chip library im using
2020-09-23T17:37:33 < Steffanx> I asked what optimization level you compile with Mangy_Dog 
2020-09-23T17:38:07 < Mangy_Dog> smallest(default)
2020-09-23T17:38:18 < Mangy_Dog> gives me the around 30kb code
2020-09-23T17:38:22 < Mangy_Dog> on my init test
2020-09-23T17:38:27 < Mangy_Dog> smallest+LTO
2020-09-23T17:38:44 < Mangy_Dog> smallest code with LTO gives me
2020-09-23T17:38:52 < Mangy_Dog> ....... one sec recompiling
2020-09-23T17:39:08 < Mangy_Dog> 2kb
2020-09-23T17:39:15 < Mangy_Dog> but it also broke the mcu
2020-09-23T17:39:50 < Mangy_Dog> thats the limit of the optimisation control i have
2020-09-23T17:42:12 < Steffanx> 30 -> 2 yeah. Lol
2020-09-23T17:44:33 < Mangy_Dog> yeah i thought it was a bit too good :p
2020-09-23T17:48:14 < zyp> why are you even bothering with LTO at this point?
2020-09-23T17:50:12 < Mangy_Dog> because i only have 64kb of flash
2020-09-23T17:50:21 < Mangy_Dog> and ive bearly started writing this program
2020-09-23T17:50:31 < Mangy_Dog> im worried i wont have enough at this rate
2020-09-23T17:50:50 < zyp> stop worrying, write the code first, optimize as required afterwards
2020-09-23T17:51:10 < Mangy_Dog> thats kinda what im having to do
2020-09-23T17:51:23 < Mangy_Dog> but im still worried
2020-09-23T17:51:31 < Mangy_Dog> thats also why i asked about chibi
2020-09-23T17:51:33 < zyp> also, are there no footprint compatible parts with larger flash?
2020-09-23T17:51:34 < Mangy_Dog> as i know its smaller
2020-09-23T17:51:48 < zyp> is it really?
2020-09-23T17:52:02 < Mangy_Dog> isnt that whats chibis main goal was
2020-09-23T17:52:06 < Mangy_Dog> to be smaller than freertos
2020-09-23T17:52:09 < zyp> idk
2020-09-23T17:52:33 < Mangy_Dog> as for larger flash
2020-09-23T17:52:38 < Mangy_Dog> sure the CB
2020-09-23T17:52:43 < Mangy_Dog> 128 flash
2020-09-23T17:52:49 < Mangy_Dog> 303 403
2020-09-23T17:52:56 < Mangy_Dog> im sure they have the same pin out too
2020-09-23T17:53:04 < Mangy_Dog> but i dont have any of them on hand
2020-09-23T17:53:04 < zyp> yeah?
2020-09-23T17:53:13 < Mangy_Dog> well fairly sure
2020-09-23T17:53:19 < Mangy_Dog> they have the same pin out
2020-09-23T17:53:27 < Mangy_Dog> but not going to bother checking now
2020-09-23T17:53:40 < zyp> if compatible parts with larger flash exists, you have an upgrade path if 64k ends up not being enough
2020-09-23T17:53:53 < zyp> so you can start with what you've got now and swap when you run out
2020-09-23T17:54:57 < Mangy_Dog> while sure i could... the point is i shouldnt have to... I made tricorder v1 on a atmega328. But i didnt have the graphics programming on tha tone. The f103c8 should be able to do the job but theres something taking up more flash than it should
2020-09-23T17:55:04 < zyp> I once did a project with f407vg (1MB flash) and customer ran out of room
2020-09-23T17:55:11 < Mangy_Dog> :o
2020-09-23T17:55:18 < zyp> next batch we swapped to f427vi (2MB flash)
2020-09-23T17:55:34 < zyp> they are directly compatible, code and all
2020-09-23T17:55:48 < Mangy_Dog> nods
2020-09-23T17:55:58 < zyp> just a matter of soldering on another part and updating the linker script to make use of the extra space
2020-09-23T17:56:24 < Mangy_Dog> there is one other possibility
2020-09-23T17:56:38 < Mangy_Dog> i have one of those C8 chips that actually have 128kb
2020-09-23T17:56:57 < Mangy_Dog> but stlink util will only report the 64
2020-09-23T17:57:05 < zyp> that's also a possibility
2020-09-23T17:57:29 < Mangy_Dog> ive never bothered writing a flash verifyer program before
2020-09-23T17:58:41 < zyp> IIRC you can just do «x/16wx 0x8000000» and «x/16wx 0x8010000» in gdb
2020-09-23T17:59:19 < zyp> that'll output the first 16 words of each 64k block of flash
2020-09-23T17:59:48 < zyp> if they are identical, you probably have a 64k flash that wraps around (17th address byte is ignored)
2020-09-23T18:00:10 < zyp> if the second one is all ones, it's probably blank flash
2020-09-23T18:00:56 < zyp> and if the address isn't mapped to anything at all, you'll probably get all zeroes
2020-09-23T18:07:27 < Mangy_Dog> i was thinking of just writing a scetch that writes direct to the flash  umm though forgot how to do that off the top of my head &0x80000000 = something
2020-09-23T18:07:31 < Mangy_Dog> then reading it back 
2020-09-23T18:07:37 < Mangy_Dog> see if i get the correct reply
2020-09-23T18:09:08 < zyp> writing to flash is more complicated than that, you can't write it as easily as ram
2020-09-23T18:09:13 < karlp> or you know, buy a bigger part.
2020-09-23T18:10:34 < Mangy_Dog> i shouldnt have to
2020-09-23T18:10:45 < Mangy_Dog> what im making should fit
2020-09-23T18:10:56 < Mangy_Dog> but like i said something is taking up more flash than it hsould
2020-09-23T18:11:15 < zyp> then use objdump and look into what
2020-09-23T18:11:45 < Mangy_Dog> on windows
2020-09-23T18:12:12 < zyp> yeah?
2020-09-23T18:12:21 < zyp> I've used objdump on windows before
2020-09-23T18:13:22 < Mangy_Dog> is that the thing that analyses the elf?
2020-09-23T18:13:53 < zyp> yes
2020-09-23T18:14:39 < Mangy_Dog> had some one check the elf for me they said that usb stack is being included
2020-09-23T18:14:44 < Mangy_Dog> and some flash handlign stuff
2020-09-23T18:14:50 < Mangy_Dog> and im not using usb in my code
2020-09-23T18:14:59 < Mangy_Dog> there isnt any option to not use it with rogers core through normal means
2020-09-23T18:15:08 < zyp> then maybe you're simply missing gc-sections
2020-09-23T18:15:15 < Mangy_Dog> unless theres a include i can comment out somewhere in the vast list of include files
2020-09-23T18:17:11 < zyp> what is responsible for building the project?
2020-09-23T18:17:29 < zyp> as in, what controls what flags are passed to the compiler and linker?
2020-09-23T18:17:33 < Mangy_Dog> the actual compiling is done either in arduino ide or sloeber
2020-09-23T18:17:52 < Mangy_Dog> both use the same board config menus
2020-09-23T18:18:42 < PaulFertser> Do they generate a map file?
2020-09-23T18:18:55 < zyp> do you know what CFLAGS and LDFLAGS they are using?
2020-09-23T18:19:44 < Mangy_Dog> no zyp and yes paul in the temp directory
2020-09-23T18:19:46 < srk> also .. arm-none-eabi-nm --size-sort --radix d image.elf 
2020-09-23T18:25:28 < zyp> Mangy_Dog, maybe you should consider switching to some tools where you are more in control of what's going on then
2020-09-23T18:25:46 < Mangy_Dog> i cant
2020-09-23T18:25:58 < zyp> not very useful with a tool that does everything for you if it does it wrong
2020-09-23T18:25:59 < Mangy_Dog> as the graphics library that drives the graphics chip im using is relient on rogerclards core
2020-09-23T18:26:06 < Mangy_Dog> it uses its harder interfaces to talk to the chip
2020-09-23T18:26:32 < Mangy_Dog> going full cubemx project build would strip that out and cause an even worse headache
2020-09-23T18:27:58 < zyp> how are you planning to solve the problem then?
2020-09-23T18:28:46 < Mangy_Dog> like you said just carry on working on it and hope to optimise it later if i cna
2020-09-23T18:28:48 < Mangy_Dog> can
2020-09-23T18:28:50 < Mangy_Dog> and need to
2020-09-23T18:28:57 < Mangy_Dog> not ideal
2020-09-23T18:30:41 < zyp> according to https://stackoverflow.com/questions/28037491/arduino-1-0-6-how-to-change-compiler-flag there's a platform.txt setting the compiler flags
2020-09-23T18:30:59 < zyp> can you find that and check what it's set to?
2020-09-23T18:32:15 < Mangy_Dog> found the file
2020-09-23T18:32:31 < zyp> pastebin it
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2020-09-23T18:33:28 < Mangy_Dog> https://github.com/rogerclarkmelbourne/Arduino_STM32/blob/master/STM32F1/platform.txt
2020-09-23T18:33:32 < Mangy_Dog> no need to
2020-09-23T18:34:50 < zyp> ah, let's see
2020-09-23T18:35:08 < zyp> hmm, looks good
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2020-09-23T18:35:30 < zyp> it has both -ffunction-sections, -fdata-sections and -Wl,--gc-sections
2020-09-23T18:36:04 < zyp> so it will put every variable and function into each own section and throw out all sections that are not referenced by another section
2020-09-23T18:36:12 < zyp> which would throw out all unused code
2020-09-23T18:36:52 < zyp> so if you're still ending up with unused code, it's not actually unused or something is going wrong with the compiler setup
2020-09-23T18:37:10 < Mangy_Dog> hmmhmm
2020-09-23T18:37:14 < Mangy_Dog> hmmhmm
2020-09-23T18:37:26 < Mangy_Dog> oops
2020-09-23T18:37:31 < mawk> hmmhmm
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2020-09-23T18:38:35 < karlp> orrrrr, Mangy_Dog  doesn't have the one that's on github, because theyv'e already tried poking it....
2020-09-23T18:38:57 < zyp> that's part of the latter :)
2020-09-23T18:39:07 < zyp> but yeah, worth checking
2020-09-23T18:39:33 < Mangy_Dog> its the same file
2020-09-23T18:39:39 < Mangy_Dog> not poked it just knew where it waqs
2020-09-23T18:39:47 < karlp> or not, there doesn't seem to be any problems right now....
2020-09-23T18:40:18 < Mangy_Dog> only the issue of code being compiled to three times the size of the same code on arduino uno
2020-09-23T18:40:25 < karlp> except it's not the same code is it...
2020-09-23T18:40:38 < Mangy_Dog> well no obviousely
2020-09-23T18:40:43 < Mangy_Dog> but i mean the user code
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2020-09-23T19:02:04 < bitmask> anyone use d-sub connectors on projects? I think I got the wrong thing
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2020-09-23T19:26:34 < Mangy_Dog> interesting
2020-09-23T19:26:50 < Mangy_Dog> freertos is only using up about 3kb in its blink example over the empty sketch
2020-09-23T19:26:53 < Mangy_Dog> 3kb is fine
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2020-09-23T20:24:15 < mawk> why are you not using zyp's stuff Mangy_Dog 
2020-09-23T20:24:21 < mawk> where's your patriotism
2020-09-23T20:32:56 < Mangy_Dog> D:
2020-09-23T20:33:37 < aandrew> freertos is pretty small
2020-09-23T20:33:46 < Mangy_Dog> yeah its ok
2020-09-23T20:33:50 < aandrew> especially with all the linker "strip unused shit" turned on
2020-09-23T20:33:55 < Mangy_Dog> comparing blink its only 3kb
2020-09-23T20:35:24 < Mangy_Dog> so i did pretty much zero programming today... Im doing well1
2020-09-23T20:35:45 < Mangy_Dog> but i did get some tools setup on the laptop as my computers about to go out of commision for up to a week while i wait for a new psy
2020-09-23T20:35:46 < Mangy_Dog> psu
2020-09-23T20:40:35 < aandrew> yeah I did sweet fuck all today, not good
2020-09-23T20:40:58 < Steffanx> How much did you learn today me Mangy_Dog ?
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2020-09-23T20:52:45 < Steffanx> Mr*
2020-09-23T21:02:42 < Mangy_Dog> today i learnt about the letters w t and f and o m and G, while learning what LTO was and how its actually experiemental and broken and shouldnt be used with this core. And that Freertos isnt so bad :p
2020-09-23T21:03:26 < Cracki> winter is coming
2020-09-23T21:04:23 < Cracki> global warming is a hoax, the snowpiercer movie is a documentary from the future
2020-09-23T21:04:42 < antto> <jingle_bellz.mp3>
2020-09-23T21:05:09 -!- Streaker [~Streaker@unaffiliated/streaker] has joined ##stm32
2020-09-23T21:05:54 < Mangy_Dog> yes 25c yesterday 15 c today and 12 with a low or 4 on friday..... summer is deffo over now
2020-09-23T21:06:25 < Cracki> it'll never come back. it's gonna be eternal darkness soon
2020-09-23T21:06:27 < antto> they say the months which have a "r" in their name are "brrrr"
2020-09-23T21:07:28 < Cracki> I want a nuclear fusion reactor for the rays
2020-09-23T21:07:50 < antto> hm, iirc someone in here woz wurking on an electrified winter jacket
2020-09-23T21:08:04 < antto> or woz it elsewhere
2020-09-23T21:08:32 < Steffanx> bitmask:  
2020-09-23T21:08:38 < bitmask> ?
2020-09-23T21:08:38 < Steffanx> It was
2020-09-23T21:08:46 < bitmask> oh
2020-09-23T21:08:49 < bitmask> yea
2020-09-23T21:08:56 < antto> he gon b rich then
2020-09-23T21:09:06 < antto> better polish that project up quickly
2020-09-23T21:09:07 < Cracki> needs uv rays
2020-09-23T21:09:08 < bitmask> psh
2020-09-23T21:09:22 < bitmask> everyone has a heated jacket for sale nowadays
2020-09-23T21:09:24 < Steffanx> Aliexpress sells them already, antto  
2020-09-23T21:09:29 < antto> meh
2020-09-23T21:09:45 < antto> i don't buy sh*t from alieggzpress
2020-09-23T21:09:51 < bitmask> Milwaukee or whatever has one, the tool company
2020-09-23T21:10:46 < bitmask> I just need a spot welder to finish mine, the one I built sucks
2020-09-23T21:10:59 < bitmask> so I can make the battery pack as small as possible
2020-09-23T21:12:05 < antto> can't you incorporate some solar cell paint on the jacket so u need less battery?
2020-09-23T21:12:06 < antto> ;P~
2020-09-23T21:12:23 < Steffanx> I recall my dad has a makita heated jacket
2020-09-23T21:12:46 < bitmask> those are great for workers cause they use the batteries all the tools use
2020-09-23T21:12:56 < bitmask> but otherwise, those batteries are kinda bulky
2020-09-23T21:13:38 < antto> afaik there's paint that acts as a solar panel
2020-09-23T21:13:57 < bitmask> maybe if you wanna light a single led, heaters take a lot of power
2020-09-23T21:14:04 < antto> actually i don't know if it can work when applied to sumfin "flexible" like cloth
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2020-09-23T21:30:09 < aandrew> well my pcie x1, x4 and x1-to-x16 extenders came
2020-09-23T21:34:25 < aandrew> along with a bunch of A7105 modules
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2020-09-23T21:57:18 < kakinull> time of innovations is not over!
2020-09-23T21:57:34 < kakinull> I just innovated an alarm clock
2020-09-23T21:57:34 < qyx> Mangy_Dog: don't try to strip kilobytes from your flash, even a wrong printf will add 20kB of code
2020-09-23T21:57:41 < qyx> *from your firmware
2020-09-23T21:57:57 < qyx> simply get used to it
2020-09-23T21:58:03 < qyx> also wtf is rogresclarks core
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2020-09-23T22:01:10 < kakinull> how about an alarm clock that administers a stimulat right into bloodstream?
2020-09-23T22:02:32 < qyx> how about no
2020-09-23T22:02:52 < kakinull> I have experimented a thing now
2020-09-23T22:03:20 < kakinull> I wake up, I drink coffeine, I go back to sleep and then I wake up for real
2020-09-23T22:03:41 < kakinull> after coffeine is fully active in the system
2020-09-23T22:04:22 < kakinull> but yeah that half an hour is not really real sleep
2020-09-23T22:04:46 < boddax> absolute cincoder arrived
2020-09-23T22:05:03 < Steffanx> that only works for people without an actual job kakinull? :P
2020-09-23T22:05:40 < kakinull> yes
2020-09-23T22:06:01 < kakinull> but my alarm clock innovation could work for others too
2020-09-23T22:06:15 < kakinull> because there is no going back to sleep part
2020-09-23T22:06:43 < Steffanx> just stop the drugs please
2020-09-23T22:12:45 < kakinull> do you mean including legal drugs?
2020-09-23T22:12:53 < Steffanx> sure if it makes you crazy
2020-09-23T22:17:51 < kakinull> I mean I know not one but maybe couple of people who concider even legal drugs as real problem seeing all use of them as abusive
2020-09-23T22:18:54 < kakinull> that is weird but I can relate as I didn't even drink coffee before I was an adult
2020-09-23T22:21:00 < kakinull> Steffanx: musics https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uG7eRgTwkck
2020-09-23T22:25:16 < Steffanx> hm
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2020-09-23T23:00:06 < invzim> allreet, inventhub.io now supports altiumpcb files
2020-09-23T23:00:29 < invzim> actually renders ok
2020-09-23T23:00:36 < invzim> no schematic love yet tho
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2020-09-23T23:37:16 < Steffanx> Pics invzim ? 
2020-09-23T23:38:11 < Steffanx> I dont feel like signing up for that
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--- Day changed Thu Sep 24 2020
2020-09-24T00:09:51 < invzim> I'll push stuff the day they do schematic
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2020-09-24T01:27:19 < karlp> heh, can't register a phone number on this bank account: https://bin.jvnv.net/file/ALj7c.png nice one
2020-09-24T01:30:12 < qyx> interesting, we have country prefix (3 digit), operator prefix (3 digit) and a 6 digit number
2020-09-24T01:30:38 < qyx> so in e.164 it is +421 905 123 456 for example
2020-09-24T01:32:08 < zyp> I figure number of digits in phone number tends to scale with population size
2020-09-24T01:32:19 < zyp> seven digits is probably plenty for a population of 300k or so :)
2020-09-24T01:32:41 < karlp> we're nearly 350k now I'll have you know :)
2020-09-24T01:33:08 < qyx> oh I forgot
2020-09-24T01:33:19 < zyp> we've got eight digits in norway
2020-09-24T01:33:20 < Cracki> I think I recently got a 7 digit number for a new sim... those were usual decades ago but now it's often 8 digits. they _do_ recycle numbers
2020-09-24T01:34:36 < upgrdman> do europe not do "area codes" in phone numbers?
2020-09-24T01:34:43 < Cracki> not for mobile
2020-09-24T01:34:47 < zyp> in practice most phone numbers tend to start with 4 or 9 though, those are the ranges reserved for cellphones, and landlines aren't that common anymore :)
2020-09-24T01:34:49 < Cracki> for mobile it's quasi-carrier code
2020-09-24T01:34:49 < qyx> offtopic, iirc there was a digital power/smps development board for G4, wasn't there?
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2020-09-24T01:34:52 < upgrdman> like in the us, theres a 3-digit area code for a small region, then a 7-digit number
2020-09-24T01:35:00 < Cracki> lol landlines
2020-09-24T01:35:05 < Cracki> sure landlines get area codes
2020-09-24T01:35:11 < zyp> but yeah
2020-09-24T01:35:33 < zyp> traditionally we had three digit area codes followed by five digit numbers
2020-09-24T01:35:49 < Cracki> qyx, I remember hearing of that too, grep logs?
2020-09-24T01:36:11 < qyx> grepping google atm
2020-09-24T01:36:26 < zyp> IIRC when I was a kid the area codes were changed so my parents kept the last five digits but got a new three digit prefix
2020-09-24T01:36:51 < zyp> don't remember if the old area codes were shorter or what
2020-09-24T01:37:10 < Cracki> best I can find is https://www.eeweb.com/st-rolls-stm32g4-microcontrollers-for-digital-power-apps/
2020-09-24T01:37:11 < qyx> exactly the same here, area codes changed for landlines in the past + numbers extended from 5 to 7 digits
2020-09-24T01:37:18 < qyx> 5->6->7 to be more precies
2020-09-24T01:37:35 < qyx> *prefixed
2020-09-24T01:37:47 < zyp> I'm not sure we have area codes anymore or if they are just plain 8 digit numbers
2020-09-24T01:38:59 < zyp> apparently we have 12 digit numbers as well, meant for M2M/IoT shit
2020-09-24T01:39:03 < Cracki> here they talk of "smps support", cursed ESL makes meaning unclear http://www.emcu.eu/stm32l4-smps/
2020-09-24T01:39:42 < zyp> ah
2020-09-24T01:39:50 < Cracki> norway was it? this claims you _do_ still have area codes, kinda https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Telephone_numbers_in_Norway
2020-09-24T01:40:03 < zyp> no, we don't
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2020-09-24T01:40:13 < zyp> I just found out that they were abolished starting this year
2020-09-24T01:40:21 < Cracki> yay
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2020-09-24T06:59:25 < jadew> RoHS pisses me off
2020-09-24T07:00:20 < jadew> china exports loads of non RoHS compliant shit to the EU, and they're allowed to do it, which enables them to reuse otherwise expensive crap
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2020-09-24T07:15:29 < jpa-> jadew: well, you can do the same; worst that happens is you are forced to recall :)
2020-09-24T07:16:26 < jpa-> and if you want to avoid even that risk, you could hire a remailer outside EU so that it is the customer who is doing the importing and is responsible for compliance
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2020-09-24T07:54:32 < dongs> fuckign garbage
2020-09-24T07:54:37 < dongs> i cant get USART1_CK to output anything
2020-09-24T07:55:49 < jsoft> Absolute horror!
2020-09-24T07:57:15 < dongs> ya
2020-09-24T07:58:39 < dongs> 2. CK output is disabled when UE bit = 0.
2020-09-24T07:59:15 < dongs> well, it is on
2020-09-24T07:59:19 < dongs> and its still not outputting.
2020-09-24T08:00:17 < dongs> oh fucking what
2020-09-24T08:00:23 < dongs> hmm no, cuz im measuring before that
2020-09-24T08:07:06 < antto> r u trying to get synchronous usart wurking?
2020-09-24T08:12:32 < dongs> no, smartcard mode
2020-09-24T08:12:37 < dongs> i used it on F1 before and it worked fine
2020-09-24T08:12:43 < dongs> same code on F0 isnt doing shit.
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2020-09-24T08:18:53 < jsoft> dongs, is it some alternate function thing?
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2020-09-24T08:25:53 < dongs> it is
2020-09-24T08:25:55 < dongs> and its on
2020-09-24T08:27:15 < jsoft> Hm
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2020-09-24T08:49:07 < dongs> got it, the core wasnt actualyl running after flash, forgot to togle that
2020-09-24T08:55:32 < jsoft> The core was not running after flash?
2020-09-24T08:55:34 < jsoft> What do you mean?
2020-09-24T08:55:54 < dongs> didn't jump to code after flash.
2020-09-24T08:56:36 < jadew> jpa-, hah, that's interesting
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2020-09-24T09:39:18 < dongs> http://bcas.tv/paste/results/jy6OZK87.html what the FUCK are ST retards doing????
2020-09-24T09:39:45 < dongs> why in the fuck wouldn't they just do while (GetFlag() == Status) { }
2020-09-24T09:39:55 < dongs> instead of copypasting same shit and duplicating 2 branches
2020-09-24T09:40:02 < dongs> is this how all of HAL shit looks like???
2020-09-24T09:46:20 < R2COM> dongs its time to grow and write your own lib in superpro c++
2020-09-24T09:46:25 < R2COM> c++17
2020-09-24T09:46:32 < R2COM> HAL is a nigger shit
2020-09-24T09:48:26 < dongs> i mean you are not wrong about the last part but fuck C++ that shit is for niggers
2020-09-24T09:49:19 < R2COM> only those who are not capable learning it say so
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2020-09-24T10:32:05 < jpa-> dongs: they probably have an internal code policy & checker that *_GET_FLAG() can only be compared against RESET and SET
2020-09-24T10:32:19 < dongs> wat
2020-09-24T10:32:23 < dongs> thats not even the problem
2020-09-24T10:32:57 < jpa-> well, if == Status is not allowed, you end up with two branches :)
2020-09-24T10:33:39 < Steffanx> Its not duplicate code. == vs =!
2020-09-24T10:33:50 < dongs> of course its duplicate code
2020-09-24T10:33:54 < Steffanx> !=
2020-09-24T10:34:04 < dongs> the flag is either set or not
2020-09-24T10:34:24 < Steffanx> No the conditions is different and then what jpa-  said
2020-09-24T10:34:58 < Steffanx> Condition* damnit English 
2020-09-24T10:35:07 < jpa-> it's just what happens when one department is trying to come up with rules to justify their existence and another department is trying to get things done despite the other department making stupid rules
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2020-09-24T13:23:03 < dongs> why teh fuck would systick IRQ not fire??
2020-09-24T13:23:08 < dongs> huh what the fuck is going on with this shit
2020-09-24T13:30:03 < Steffanx> HAL.
2020-09-24T13:30:09 < dongs> yeah no doubt.
2020-09-24T13:30:09 < dongs> but no
2020-09-24T13:30:16 < dongs> i ran out of hardware breakpoints.
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2020-09-24T18:15:01 < Mangy_Dog> oh ffs
2020-09-24T18:15:04 < Mangy_Dog> its gone 4pm
2020-09-24T18:15:15 < Mangy_Dog> and ive STILL NOT got started on this fucking programming
2020-09-24T18:15:39 < Mangy_Dog> i really am finding anything else to do than to get on with it
2020-09-24T18:21:30 < karlp> glad we could help :)
2020-09-24T18:21:45 < invzim> you dirty procrastinator
2020-09-24T18:21:54 < Mangy_Dog> i know its really bad
2020-09-24T18:22:02 < Mangy_Dog> i did some air brushing for the stargate
2020-09-24T18:22:05 < Mangy_Dog> did some cleaning
2020-09-24T18:22:14 < Mangy_Dog> prepping to take the PSU out of this computer to get rma'd
2020-09-24T18:22:33 < Mangy_Dog> and then played a game of apex
2020-09-24T18:22:38 < Mangy_Dog> and then looked at imgur
2020-09-24T18:22:42 < srk> it's called progressive procrastination
2020-09-24T18:23:08 < Mangy_Dog> part of the problem is.... its a rather complex project
2020-09-24T18:23:30 < Mangy_Dog> as im trying to also figure out how to incorporate some new stuff with bits from 2 different projects i made before
2020-09-24T18:23:41 < Mangy_Dog> and trying to figure out how it would all work in my head
2020-09-24T18:23:49 < srk> while avoiding the task at hand you do progress with bunch of other things, while you figure out the former 
2020-09-24T18:24:05 < Mangy_Dog> bit of
2020-09-24T18:24:10 < Mangy_Dog> but i kinda have a plan now
2020-09-24T18:24:15 < Mangy_Dog> but its still.... just actually starting
2020-09-24T18:24:27 < Mangy_Dog> its like that episode of buffy where dawn accidently wishes for no one to leave
2020-09-24T18:24:31 < Mangy_Dog> and no one can leave the house
2020-09-24T18:24:33 < Mangy_Dog> they try
2020-09-24T18:24:36 < Mangy_Dog> they go to the door
2020-09-24T18:24:37 < Mangy_Dog> but they dont do it
2020-09-24T18:24:41 < invzim> git helps, you can always reset to starting point
2020-09-24T18:24:43 < srk> :D
2020-09-24T18:24:47 < Mangy_Dog> i think some one wished me NOT to start
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2020-09-24T20:16:21 < upgrdman> i've been doing it wrong for years!  https://www.reddit.com/r/hmmmgifs/comments/iyb5ki/hmmm/
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2020-09-24T20:30:36 < kakinull> I have been using mayo
2020-09-24T20:30:52 < kakinull> what is that goo in the video?
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2020-09-24T20:31:54 < Steffanx> Its an AMD upgrdman ...
2020-09-24T20:34:08 < boddax> whats AMD ?
2020-09-24T20:35:48 < Steffanx> The cpu
2020-09-24T20:36:57 < Cracki> "heinz tomato ketchup" on the syringe
2020-09-24T20:37:02 < boddax> ah ok cpu challenging with motorola 68k
2020-09-24T20:38:29 < boddax> bought at eurospin Cracki ?
2020-09-24T20:38:36 < Cracki> wats dat
2020-09-24T20:39:02 < boddax> cheaper european chain market
2020-09-24T20:39:08 < Cracki> pigeon gif reminds me, saw a pigeon shower in a bubbly water fountain today
2020-09-24T20:39:19 < Cracki> not like tipping into it, but standing under the fountain
2020-09-24T20:39:23 < Cracki> *dipping
2020-09-24T20:41:23 < boddax> have shampoo?
2020-09-24T20:43:26 < Cracki> https://www.reddit.com/r/hmmmgifs/comments/ig2i0o/hmmm/
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2020-09-24T20:46:00 < boddax> elk with spare wheel
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2020-09-24T20:51:58 < kakinull> rad necklace
2020-09-24T20:53:24 < Cracki> almost a tire necklace
2020-09-24T20:54:00 < Cracki> in some parts of the world, this is given to people who bought civilization, and it's burning
2020-09-24T20:54:43 < Cracki> *brought
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2020-09-24T21:01:58 < Mangy_Dog> i got it off epic store for free
2020-09-24T21:01:59 < Mangy_Dog> and
2020-09-24T21:02:02 < Mangy_Dog> didnt like it
2020-09-24T21:02:06 < Mangy_Dog> glad i didnt pay for it
2020-09-24T21:14:06 < Cracki> wew https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z9N-kRYlOz8
2020-09-24T21:14:16 < Cracki> inspiration for zyp
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2020-09-24T22:01:16 < zyp> Cracki, nice
2020-09-24T22:02:07 < zyp> love the raining rocks afterwards
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2020-09-24T22:05:28 < zyp> my rocks are like 2-3m from the house wall, so I don't think explosives would work out very well here :)
2020-09-24T22:05:41 < zyp> not that I can legally use any either
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2020-09-24T22:33:11 < Steffanx> cover it with sand like in the other vids
2020-09-24T22:38:08 < Cracki> rock blasting can be done even inside of/under buildings
2020-09-24T22:38:54 < Cracki> read that on some company website, they claim they do it regularly
2020-09-24T22:38:59 < Cracki> all his earth burp videos are so gentle in comparison
2020-09-24T22:41:12 < Steffanx> Have some "random" Hans Zimmer music kakimir : https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8-wAvbxB7D8
2020-09-24T22:41:16 < Steffanx> oh kakimir aint here
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2020-09-24T23:05:32 < zyp>  Cracki, not much point using explosives anyway when expanding mortar gets the job done
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2020-09-24T23:09:26 < Cracki> true
2020-09-24T23:11:16 < Steffanx> the point is that its more spectacular..
2020-09-24T23:11:46 < Steffanx> but you still have to drill holes, so... thats where i hear you complain about :P
2020-09-24T23:11:55 < Steffanx> *what
2020-09-24T23:11:59 < zyp> yes
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2020-09-25T07:25:38 < R2COM> hello chats
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2020-09-25T08:21:08 < jadew> Cracki, I was about to post the same thing with the deer, but then I saw your link
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2020-09-25T10:25:00 < jsoft> I have 3 timers, tim20 and 22 seem to swamp out tim6. I have tim6 blinking a led every second, and the led wont blink when tim21 / 22 are active
2020-09-25T10:26:08 < jsoft> Any suggestions as to why this might be happenings?
2020-09-25T10:30:20 < zyp> hard to say without more information/code to look at
2020-09-25T10:30:51 < zyp> if you're using interrupts, maybe you're forgetting to clear an interrupt flag so you're getting stuck in the ISR for tim21/22
2020-09-25T10:32:04 < jsoft> HMm
2020-09-25T10:32:10 < jsoft> It turns out only tim22 stops it
2020-09-25T10:32:15 < jsoft> tim21 turns on tim22
2020-09-25T10:32:27 < zyp> can you pastebin the relevant code?
2020-09-25T10:32:33 < jsoft> if I omit that code, and turn on tim22 manually, it stops the led blinking
2020-09-25T10:32:37 < jsoft> zyp, its forth
2020-09-25T10:32:44 < jsoft> not c
2020-09-25T10:33:14 < zyp> oh, heh
2020-09-25T10:33:19 < zyp> well, pastebin it anyway :)
2020-09-25T10:33:25 < jsoft> ok
2020-09-25T10:34:26 < jsoft> ok so this is the pwm ( tim21/22 stuff ) https://pastebin.com/5t65bwyd
2020-09-25T10:35:56 < zyp> check the definition of TIM22_SR_UIF, make sure it refers to the correct register and bit
2020-09-25T10:37:50 < jsoft> Yep
2020-09-25T10:37:51 < jsoft> It does
2020-09-25T10:40:00 < zyp> hmm, okay
2020-09-25T10:40:18 < jsoft> hmm.
2020-09-25T10:40:23 < jsoft> I wonder if I adjust the ARR values
2020-09-25T10:40:26 < zyp> do you have a debugger available?
2020-09-25T10:40:42 < jsoft> nerp
2020-09-25T10:40:49 < jsoft> why
2020-09-25T10:40:55 < jsoft> I can still look at it live though
2020-09-25T10:41:07 < jsoft> What thing are you thinking about?
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2020-09-25T10:41:27 < zyp> look at what live?
2020-09-25T10:41:32 < jsoft> the uC
2020-09-25T10:41:38 < jsoft> look at registers, set them, wahtever
2020-09-25T10:41:52 < zyp> yeah, that's what having a debugger lets you do
2020-09-25T10:42:00 < jsoft> its what forth lets you do by default
2020-09-25T10:42:25 < jsoft> But what area were you thinking?
2020-09-25T10:43:11 < zyp> well, I figure I'd start by halting execution and checking ipsr
2020-09-25T10:43:22 < zyp> when something is swamping out tim6
2020-09-25T10:43:38 < jsoft> Do you think it matters if I do it while its running?
2020-09-25T10:44:33 < jsoft> It always seems to be zero
2020-09-25T10:44:41 < zyp> I'm not familiar with how forth works, is there a runtime underneath your code that's giving you a CLI or something?
2020-09-25T10:45:07 < jsoft> there is a REPL
2020-09-25T10:45:22 < jsoft> you type in / upload code, it compiles it
2020-09-25T10:45:25 < jsoft> runs it, or whatever
2020-09-25T10:45:26 < zyp> also running on the mcu?
2020-09-25T10:45:29 < jsoft> yes
2020-09-25T10:45:35 < jsoft> forth is the runtime I guess
2020-09-25T10:45:37 < zyp> ah, right
2020-09-25T10:45:53 < zyp> as long as that's still responsive, you're obviously not stuck in an ISR :)
2020-09-25T10:46:07 < jsoft> yeah no pending interrupts anywa
2020-09-25T10:46:08 < jsoft> anyways
2020-09-25T10:47:44 < zyp> ipsr tells you which ISR the CPU is currently executing, and it'll obviously always be 0 when the REPL is active, since the interrupts will also interrupt the REPL
2020-09-25T10:48:09 < jsoft> true yes
2020-09-25T10:49:15 < jsoft> Very weird. 
2020-09-25T10:50:01 < zyp> could it be a limitation of the forth runtime, that you can't have more than a given number of ISRs?
2020-09-25T10:50:19 < jsoft> Actually it seems if I have _both_ tim21 / tim22 on, then the tim6 does not work 
2020-09-25T10:51:18 < jsoft> I guess that is possible, somehow, but I doubt it
2020-09-25T10:52:49 < jsoft> I will go check for anything relating to that to be sure
2020-09-25T10:53:02 < zyp> a side point is that I don't see why you're using multiple timers for this, since a single timer can happily do PWM by itself :)
2020-09-25T10:54:51 < jsoft> This is true, however somebody ( looks innocently around the room ) cocked up the layout on the board :D
2020-09-25T10:55:14 < zyp> e.g. if you set ARR=999 and CH1=250, you'll get a 25% duty pulse, either by enabling both update and ch1 interrupt flags, or enabling output compare
2020-09-25T10:55:43 < zyp> the interrupt method would still let you use any gpio
2020-09-25T10:56:10 < jsoft> Another part of it is I wanted to use the RAW adc value from pots to set the ARR
2020-09-25T10:56:27 < zyp> you can still do that
2020-09-25T10:56:49 < jsoft> Hmm
2020-09-25T10:57:07 < jsoft> Any GPIO you say?
2020-09-25T10:57:47 < jsoft> Ok I might do that
2020-09-25T10:57:49 < zyp> I mean, it'll work like your current solution, except it'll be the same ISR firing both when it's time to turn on and when it's time to turn off, and you distinguish by checking whether SR got the UP or CH1 interrupt flags set
2020-09-25T10:57:55 < jsoft> However, I still want to know whats going on right now though
2020-09-25T10:58:10 < zyp> true, hence why I said it's a side point :)
2020-09-25T10:58:26 < jsoft> zyp, Nah thats cool, I did not really think about doing it that way
2020-09-25T10:58:45 < jsoft> I mostly am learning this forth business and wanted things complex and annoying to try things out
2020-09-25T10:59:24 < zyp> how about making a simpler test case; remove all the interaction between timers, just set up the same timers with each ISR incrementing a counter
2020-09-25T10:59:45 < zyp> then start them all and check which of the counters are actually counting
2020-09-25T11:00:11 < zyp> if that's working, you probably have something weird going on in the interaction between the timers
2020-09-25T11:00:30 < zyp> if that's not working, you have a simpler case to debug from
2020-09-25T11:02:18 < jsoft> Hmm 
2020-09-25T11:02:20 < jsoft> Hang on
2020-09-25T11:02:44 < zyp> when you want to figure out whether a problem is in your code or third party code you're using, a good starting point is to remove as much as possible of your code
2020-09-25T11:02:48 < jsoft> ok so tim21 and 22 are counting
2020-09-25T11:03:07 < jsoft> if I turn one of, tim6 counts
2020-09-25T11:03:46 < zyp> even when they are turned off, all ISRs are registered?
2020-09-25T11:04:10 < zyp> does it matter which order you start them in?
2020-09-25T11:04:17 < jsoft> hmm hang on
2020-09-25T11:04:37 < jsoft> nope
2020-09-25T11:04:47 < jsoft> When they are turned off, no counting happens
2020-09-25T11:07:03 < jsoft> Weird eh?
2020-09-25T11:07:21 < zyp> can you pastebin the code you're testing with now?
2020-09-25T11:08:05 < jsoft> oh hello
2020-09-25T11:08:29 < jsoft> found something in the tim6 ISR which when commented out all works as expected
2020-09-25T11:09:00 < zyp> yeah?
2020-09-25T11:09:26 < jsoft> hmm
2020-09-25T11:09:27 < jsoft> Yeha
2020-09-25T11:09:43 < jsoft> Hang on let me try again with it there just to see if I have my head up my arse
2020-09-25T11:10:34 < jsoft> :|
2020-09-25T11:10:36 < jsoft> Hmm
2020-09-25T11:10:41 < jsoft> Nerp
2020-09-25T11:10:49 < jsoft> What did I change which made it suddenly work :\
2020-09-25T11:10:53  * jsoft ponders
2020-09-25T11:11:21 < jsoft> oh, its not working, I forgot to turn on tim22 :D
2020-09-25T11:12:52 < jsoft> Ok, so this is the pwm stuff https://pastebin.com/9AqbSAxh
2020-09-25T11:13:38 < jsoft> this is the thing which involves tim6 https://pastebin.com/3a4LqS8g
2020-09-25T11:17:58 < zyp> have you tried changing the order of which you run first of monitor-init and pwm-init?
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2020-09-25T11:24:34 < jsoft> essnetially the timer order you mean?
2020-09-25T11:24:40 < jsoft> If so, yes
2020-09-25T11:24:47 < jsoft> on init
2020-09-25T11:24:52 < jsoft> oh init, I mean
2020-09-25T11:24:56 < jsoft> no I have not tried that, hang on
2020-09-25T11:25:24 < jsoft> no change
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2020-09-25T11:27:04 < jsoft> No doubt it will turn out to be something super silly
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2020-09-25T11:52:21 < jsoft> Hmmmmmmmm
2020-09-25T11:52:24 < jsoft> I wonder if it's DMA related
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2020-09-25T12:20:29 < jsoft> zyp, not having any luck with this timer business.
2020-09-25T12:20:54 < jsoft> zyp, referencing your earlier suggestion, which I assume you mean some capture / compare sort of setup.. ive never used them before
2020-09-25T12:21:26 < jsoft> Im reading the diagrams and stuff, is a 'channel' an actual GPIO? Or can it be mapped to other things?
2020-09-25T12:25:20 < zyp> both-ish
2020-09-25T12:25:55 < zyp> a timer consists of a counter register and a number of channel registers (the full featured timers have four channels, others less)
2020-09-25T12:26:45 < zyp> each channel is associated with a GPIO AF that may be mapped to a GPIO pin, and can in that case operate in two modes
2020-09-25T12:27:41 < zyp> in input compare mode, the channel register will copy the current contents of the counter register when a pulse/edge is received on the channel AF
2020-09-25T12:27:46 < zyp> sorry, input capture
2020-09-25T12:28:24 < jsoft> when a pulse / edge is received on what sorry? The input capture?
2020-09-25T12:28:38 < zyp> on the GPIO AF
2020-09-25T12:28:56 < jsoft> Right ok
2020-09-25T12:29:02 < zyp> e.g. if you map a pin to TIM2_CH1, it will trigger the capture on CH1 in input capture mode
2020-09-25T12:29:24 < zyp> that's not really relevant to what you're currently doing, but I'm including it for completeness
2020-09-25T12:29:30 < jsoft> Oh ok
2020-09-25T12:29:59 < zyp> the other mode is output compare, where the channel register is compared to the counter register, and can act on the channel AF when it matches
2020-09-25T12:30:22 < jsoft> Ok
2020-09-25T12:30:46 < jsoft> So you are suggesting not mapping the AF, and using the interrupt, with the timer in output compare?
2020-09-25T12:30:46 < zyp> e.g. in PWM mode you can configure it so that TIM2_CH1 goes high on the update event and low when CH1 matches CNT
2020-09-25T12:30:54 < zyp> yes
2020-09-25T12:31:00 < jsoft> Oh ok
2020-09-25T12:31:18 < jsoft> So essentially I configure the channel to output compare, and look for the right interrupt flag in the ISR?
2020-09-25T12:31:18 < zyp> you can also not use the AF at all, but instead use compare match to trigger interrupt
2020-09-25T12:31:24 < zyp> exactly
2020-09-25T12:31:32 < jsoft> Oh ok
2020-09-25T12:31:40 < jsoft> Interestings
2020-09-25T12:31:53 < jsoft> Hmm
2020-09-25T12:32:03 < jsoft> Thanks, I will poke a stick at it and see how it goes :)
2020-09-25T12:57:16 < Cracki> some real forth on a real stm32, and it's a real person not just a blog post, fascinating
2020-09-25T12:59:09 < Cracki> when/if you incorporate soem forth in some C/C++ project, pls let me know. I'm interested in basically running some C code, run forth as a REPL, and give forth some words of c code
2020-09-25T13:11:52 < jsoft> Cracki, mate, I stumbled into it after getting annoyed with C/C++ 'HAL' stuff, and other such attempts
2020-09-25T13:12:00 < jsoft> Cracki, been addicted ever since
2020-09-25T13:12:43 < karlp> Cracki: real people write blog posts..
2020-09-25T13:13:00 < karlp> there's a forth usb driver for stm32 somewhere too.
2020-09-25T13:16:06 < jsoft> zyp, well bugger me, it works
2020-09-25T13:16:18 < jsoft> zyp, thanks man
2020-09-25T13:17:22 < karlp> soooo what did you fix?
2020-09-25T13:17:57 < jsoft> Nothing
2020-09-25T13:18:03 < karlp> riiight
2020-09-25T13:18:11 < jsoft> Nah I done a different thing
2020-09-25T13:18:21 < jsoft> So I was using 2 timers to do PWM
2020-09-25T13:18:42 < jsoft> and had an issue where while those 2 timers were active, another timer did not want to enter it's ISR
2020-09-25T13:18:47 < jsoft> I never figured that part out.
2020-09-25T13:19:00 < jsoft> karlp, but zyp suggested using CCM and one timer to do PWM
2020-09-25T13:19:07 < jsoft> karlp, and thats what ive just done
2020-09-25T13:19:10 < karlp> I still suspect a problem in your definitions for that earlier case
2020-09-25T13:19:37 < jsoft> karlp, the addresses were fine. Auto generated even, but checked anyway.
2020-09-25T13:19:52 < jsoft> I could turn the other timers off, and the first one worked perfect
2020-09-25T13:19:59 < jsoft> turn them on again, it stopped
2020-09-25T13:20:03 < karlp> autogenerated from known to have bugs svd files I prsume? :)
2020-09-25T13:20:06 < jsoft> All while running live
2020-09-25T13:20:15 < jsoft> I checked the offsets and stuff from the datasheet
2020-09-25T13:21:02 < karlp> just seemed like the most likely culprit, and lots of people before you have said, "no no, definitions are organic free range hand crafted perfection" and still had problems in them :)
2020-09-25T13:21:14 < jsoft> Fair enough
2020-09-25T13:22:13 < jsoft> Hmm
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2020-09-25T16:04:17 < jsoft> What could be causing exti ISR to be triggering all the time?
2020-09-25T16:04:44 < jsoft> I _thought_ I only unmasked some GPIO level change interrupts
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2020-09-25T16:17:44 < dongs> are you clearning the IT flag once it fires?
2020-09-25T16:17:51 < dongs> if you don't its gonna keep going over and over
2020-09-25T16:18:17 < aandrew> that's a pretty common rookie mistake
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2020-09-25T16:18:52 < aandrew> the peripheral generating the interrupt has no idea that the processor actually branched to the vector; you've gotta tell the peripheral that you've acknowledged its interrupt
2020-09-25T16:18:53 < karlp> but then it shouldn't have been returning to the repl, it should hav ejust been stuck in that isr
2020-09-25T16:19:14 < karlp> though, with enough cpu, the repl might get enough time to run... _maybe_
2020-09-25T16:19:41 < aandrew> I don't know his code, he could also be printing in the isr
2020-09-25T16:19:53 < karlp> it's forth, no-one knows it.
2020-09-25T16:19:59 < aandrew> ahh
2020-09-25T16:20:13 < karlp> no-one ever knows forth except it'sown authors as far as I can tlel.
2020-09-25T16:20:28 < jsoft> dongs, IT?
2020-09-25T16:21:13 < jsoft> Oh so there are two iunterrupt flags to clear?
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2020-09-25T16:25:45 < jsoft> It seems to be at around 50 hz
2020-09-25T16:25:49 < jsoft> Hmm
2020-09-25T16:26:11 < jsoft> I wonder if I have some floating input which the mains is toggling or something weird like that
2020-09-25T16:28:20 < jsoft> hahaha! Wowzer
2020-09-25T16:28:23 < jsoft> that was it!
2020-09-25T16:28:33 < jsoft> That is so cool
2020-09-25T16:30:17 < jsoft> hehe
2020-09-25T16:30:19 < jsoft> very coo9l
2020-09-25T16:30:36 < jsoft> Yay!
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2020-09-25T16:31:20 < jsoft> I feel a bourbon is deserved
2020-09-25T16:32:40 < jsoft> Ahh its so satisfying to find the cause of a problem
2020-09-25T16:38:27 < karlp> what were you doing that a floating input causedyour timer to stop counting?!
2020-09-25T16:38:53 < Steffanx> Lol jsoft. No bourbon before the job is done.
2020-09-25T16:39:55 < jsoft> karlp, so the exti interrupt _started_ some timers
2020-09-25T16:40:38 < jsoft> It was supposed to only happen on a button push or pir ( the floating pin ) toggle
2020-09-25T16:40:50 < dongs> the fuck is a repl
2020-09-25T16:40:58 < karlp> think python command line
2020-09-25T16:41:05 < dongs> i would rather not
2020-09-25T16:41:12 < karlp> or tcl shell or lua interactive or whatever.
2020-09-25T16:41:14 < dongs> so uh...
2020-09-25T16:41:18 < jsoft> or no, lets not think python command line
2020-09-25T16:41:20 < dongs> been doing some firmware work 
2020-09-25T16:41:27 < dongs> and damn , keil is kinda shitty these days
2020-09-25T16:41:31 < jsoft> Its nothing like python
2020-09-25T16:41:32 < dongs> lacking basic stuff
2020-09-25T16:41:42 < karlp> jsoft: yes yes, forth is pure and organic, but the repl concept is the same.
2020-09-25T16:41:44 < dongs> i've been doing a bunch of embedded shit in vstudio
2020-09-25T16:41:55 < dongs> so i ahvent touched keil for a while
2020-09-25T16:42:03 < dongs> but wow, it lacks basic IDE navigation/stuff
2020-09-25T16:42:06 < jsoft> karlp, *shrug* I dunno about all this pure an organic stuff.
2020-09-25T16:42:10 < dongs> and its slower every fucking time i run it
2020-09-25T16:47:53 < jsoft> Yay software 
2020-09-25T16:50:01 < karlp> anyone love/hate the hantek scopes like these? http://hantek.com.cn/products/detail/26 or http://hantek.com.cn/products/detail/4163 are they OEM of something else these days or what?
2020-09-25T16:50:26 < dongs> na they just trash
2020-09-25T16:50:33 < dongs> 800x400 lcd lmao wat in 2020
2020-09-25T16:50:41 < dongs> tek DPO5k series ahs like 1080p panel
2020-09-25T16:51:02 < karlp> eh, for a friend doing audio knob twiddly screchy shit
2020-09-25T16:51:02 < jsoft> dongs, I had one of those flake out on me a week ago
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2020-09-25T17:06:28 < dongs> how the fuck do I find out if STM32L031 has V0 or V1 USART?
2020-09-25T17:06:35 < dongs> err F031
2020-09-25T17:06:40 < karlp> v1 or v2?
2020-09-25T17:06:48 < karlp> look for the rs485 llines
2020-09-25T17:06:56 < karlp> and... hrm, what wsa the other dead giveaway...
2020-09-25T17:06:57 < dongs> i dont know, this garbage ST code calls it V0 / V1
2020-09-25T17:07:24 < dongs> It provides hardware management of the CTS, RTS and RS485 DE signals, multiprocessor communication mode, master synchronous communication and single-wire half-duplex communication mode. USART1 supports also SmartCard communication (ISO 7816), IrDA SIR ENDEC, LIN Master/Slave capability and auto baud rate feature, and has a clock domain independent of the CPU clock, allowing to wake up the MCU from Stop mode.
2020-09-25T17:07:46 < karlp> that's "v2" in libopencm3 at least.
2020-09-25T17:07:50 < dongs> hmm
2020-09-25T17:08:40 < karlp> if it hs the half duxplex support built in, and inversions shits and the registers are RDR andf TDR instead of just DR...
2020-09-25T17:09:11 < dongs> yes, has RDR
2020-09-25T17:09:14 < dongs> using that now and that works
2020-09-25T17:09:37 < dongs> so thats v2?
2020-09-25T17:09:49 < karlp> what locm3 calls v2, yes.
2020-09-25T17:10:05 < karlp> I would presume given the choice of v0 and v1, that would be v1,, but who knows what ST did in their infinite wisdom
2020-09-25T17:11:07 < dongs> st's site is fucking dead again
2020-09-25T17:11:09 < dongs> what in the fuck
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2020-09-25T17:11:48 < dongs> hmm
2020-09-25T17:11:59 < dongs> ok so tehy have a sampel for L053
2020-09-25T17:12:07 < dongs> #define USART_V0
2020-09-25T17:12:11 < dongs> and they have this in there
2020-09-25T17:12:42 < dongs> and for USE_STM3210E_EVAL they have #define USART_V1
2020-09-25T17:12:56 < aandrew> fucking mouser
2020-09-25T17:12:56 < dongs> and 3210E is like F103ZE
2020-09-25T17:13:01 < dongs> fucking ST
2020-09-25T17:13:03 < aandrew> they can't ever get a fucking order shipped on time
2020-09-25T17:13:19 < dongs> lemme guess its friday and they havent shipped your shit? :p
2020-09-25T17:13:29 < aandrew> it's the ONLY reason I will try almost every other vendor before them
2020-09-25T17:13:29 < aandrew> yep
2020-09-25T17:14:09 < dongs> ok yaeh V0 is the one with RDR. tehy have another dumb macro for it.
2020-09-25T17:14:23 < dongs> imagine one department of ST having no clue what other department is doing
2020-09-25T17:14:24 < aandrew> wednesday night I make an order and *I* fucked up by not noticing that one item (that I don't need, was just getting to $100 for free shiping) was backordered
2020-09-25T17:14:40 < aandrew> so I call yesterday morning, get it sorted and that was a full 13h before the "we will ship today" deadline
2020-09-25T17:14:55 < dongs> dont they have online shat
2020-09-25T17:15:51 < aandrew> today it's still "in shipping" so I call and nope, it didn't leave, the order was in "credit check" which they just confirmed was not supposed to be there, there's no issue, it'll ship today and "you'll get it right to your front door sir"
2020-09-25T17:15:51 < karlp> dongs: sounds like "v0" means "the uart on the cortex-m0 parts, which are all the v2 peripheral"
2020-09-25T17:15:59 < aandrew> ya think? a whole weekend too late
2020-09-25T17:15:59 < karlp> and "v1" is "the shit we used on f1 only" ?
2020-09-25T17:16:01 < aandrew> fucking bullshit
2020-09-25T17:16:26 < karlp> sounds super dumb, glad I'm not working with st code :)
2020-09-25T17:18:49 < karlp> I have atmel instead: https://paste.jvnv.net/view/qcOrR
2020-09-25T17:19:09 < karlp> (thankfully I didn't end up needing to try and work out the atmel code)
2020-09-25T17:19:24 < dongs> at least they're using stdint.h units
2020-09-25T17:19:37 < dongs> instead of fucking UINT8 or ATMEL_U8 or someshit
2020-09-25T17:22:59 < jsoft> Fucking this and fucking that
2020-09-25T17:23:06 < jsoft> What a bunch of angry guys :P
2020-09-25T17:26:55 < Steffanx> Fucking angry guys*
2020-09-25T17:28:17 < jsoft> Fucking ass hats
2020-09-25T17:28:21 < jsoft> Fucks sake
2020-09-25T17:28:39 < jsoft> Well clearly its time for meat
2020-09-25T17:39:44 < karlp> the swearing is how you know we're "professional" :)
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2020-09-25T17:51:27 < aandrew> swearing is cathartic. it frees the soul and allows you to think clearly instead of worrying about offending someone
2020-09-25T17:55:38 < catphish> fuck that
2020-09-25T17:55:43 < catphish> and fuck you
2020-09-25T17:56:26 < jsoft> :)
2020-09-25T18:02:40 < aandrew> see
2020-09-25T18:02:43 < aandrew> the system works
2020-09-25T18:05:22 < jsoft> lol
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2020-09-25T18:45:42 < Steffanx> He fucking left?!
2020-09-25T18:48:19 < englishman> so what aandrew is saying is he fucked up an order and instead of just placing another and paying the $8 for shipping he tried to be a cheap Canuck and now is late
2020-09-25T18:49:18 < aandrew> englishman: not at all
2020-09-25T18:49:40 < aandrew> I called in and corrected the order 12+h before the ship deadline and was assured it would ship that day
2020-09-25T18:50:00 < englishman> called in like on the phone?
2020-09-25T18:50:14 < aandrew> they fucked up becuase they had 12+h to clear whatever idiotic credit hold they mistakenly put on my order, and then further fucked up by not notifying me of the fact
2020-09-25T18:50:18 < aandrew> englishman: yes, as in spoke to spone
2020-09-25T18:50:21 < aandrew> someone
2020-09-25T18:50:36 < englishman> whoa amazing I didn't know people still did that
2020-09-25T18:50:43 < aandrew> englishman: that's all you *can* do with mouser
2020-09-25T18:50:45 < englishman> idk how you find the time
2020-09-25T18:51:06 < aandrew> I'd have ordered through digikey if they carried the coral.ai devices
2020-09-25T18:51:21 < karlp> wotcha building?
2020-09-25T18:51:24 < karlp> aren't those things uper pricey?
2020-09-25T18:51:52 < englishman> anyway that same thing has happened to me and I always just place a second order because with the time it takes to complain and the risk of a delay it's cheaper to pay the $8 ship cost
2020-09-25T18:52:44 < karlp> hah, $8 ship cost.
2020-09-25T18:52:51 < karlp> moneyed westerners or something
2020-09-25T18:54:28 < aandrew> $20 ship cost unless you want USPS and have them fuck it up
2020-09-25T18:54:46 < aandrew> karlp: they're not bad. the USB-C one is pricey but the PCIe/M2 ones are like CAD$40
2020-09-25T18:55:01 < aandrew> also the USB ones you can't get in Canada due ot export restrictions which is kind of lol
2020-09-25T18:55:12 < karlp> export restrictioncs are so lel
2020-09-25T18:55:41 < karlp> I'm kinda scared what happens if I try and buy any modern radios again, as they're all multiprotocol now, and last I tried this 802.15.4 was all "oh no, cna't export that!"
2020-09-25T19:09:34 < Steffanx> Why iceland is like this karlp?
2020-09-25T19:09:43 < Steffanx> Who or what are they trying to protect?
2020-09-25T19:10:55 < karlp> it's not iceland.
2020-09-25T19:11:33 < karlp> it's bad bookkeeping at the state department once in the 80s, and then digikey/mouser (at least a few eyars ago) simply not being prepared to spend any time even attempting to see if their lists were out of date.
2020-09-25T19:15:37 < dongs> so fucking keil window has a bug
2020-09-25T19:15:44 < dongs> if its fullscrened on a 4K monitor
2020-09-25T19:15:48 < dongs> like maximized
2020-09-25T19:16:03 < dongs> there's an area at the very top of the screen where its fucking title bar is
2020-09-25T19:16:27 < dongs> that if you  click it, it unfocuses the window
2020-09-25T19:16:36 < dongs> like you're clicking under it on desktop, despite it being maximized
2020-09-25T19:17:06 < dongs> since keil is usually maximized, and I may have datasheets/other shit open at same time, my normal workflow is to bump the mouse to top of the screen and click to bring back keil
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2020-09-25T19:17:34 < dongs> but with this fucking shit, it doesnt get focused but just remains in the back behind open documents/shit
2020-09-25T19:17:37 < dongs> fuckin fail
2020-09-25T19:18:14 < englishman> probably some German feature
2020-09-25T19:25:43 < zyp> haha
2020-09-25T19:26:14 < dongs> honestly, i blame windows on this. they fucked with the titlebars so fucking much
2020-09-25T19:26:22 < dongs> like visual stuido doesnt evne fucking HAVE a titlebar anymore
2020-09-25T19:26:26 < dongs> the menus start right on top
2020-09-25T19:26:40 < dongs> every fucking app wants to customdraw their own shit
2020-09-25T19:26:43 < karlp> gotta have more space for ribbons amirite
2020-09-25T19:26:57 < karlp> sure don't want to use that space for user editor or anything...
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2020-09-25T19:27:09 < karlp> so, why are you using keil anyway?
2020-09-25T19:27:23 < dongs> still ahve a bunch of projects in it but like, its become so incredibly slow for debugging idk
2020-09-25T19:27:23 < karlp> are your projects _tied to the editor you first started them in_ ?!
2020-09-25T19:27:31 < karlp> what sort of horror stone age is this?! :)
2020-09-25T19:27:43 < dongs> keil still has the best crt library
2020-09-25T19:27:50 < dongs> that doesnt require sbrk and all other GNU/insanity
2020-09-25T19:28:03 < dongs> and is consistently generating smaller code
2020-09-25T19:28:14 -!- Sadale [~Sadale@unaffiliated/sadale] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds]
2020-09-25T19:28:23 < dongs> and i dont need to iknow what a linker script is
2020-09-25T19:28:37 < dongs> even for doing complex shit like read-only resource sections at the end of flash and shit
2020-09-25T19:29:12 < dongs> like how do I #pragma dongs a bunch of R/O const data and have it end up at a specific location in flash with GNU/fail?
2020-09-25T19:29:18 < dongs> probably hours of fucking around with linker scripts
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2020-09-25T19:45:02 < antto> or a gcc -option
2020-09-25T19:45:10 < antto> calm down senpai
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2020-09-25T19:48:46  * antto puts a copy of Code::Blocks into a gift box and gives it to dongs with best wishez
2020-09-25T19:51:08 < srk> extern bool test __attribute__(section(".mySection"));
2020-09-25T19:51:25 < srk> goes to mySection during linking
2020-09-25T19:52:54 < antto> yeah, and a smol -Wl,<sumfin> for gcc at link time
2020-09-25T19:55:57 < aandrew> I don't think you need the -Wl,..., the linker script is what figures out what to put where
2020-09-25T19:56:15 < karlp> you can do it either way.
2020-09-25T19:56:34 < aandrew> interesting, I wasn't aware that you could perform linker-script-foo from the command line
2020-09-25T19:56:42 < aandrew> I'd prefer just to have it in the linker script 
2020-09-25T19:56:47 < antto> aandrew,  -Wl, is for the linker-script-o-phobic people like senpai
2020-09-25T19:57:12 < aandrew> indeed
2020-09-25T19:57:29 < aandrew> who then can whine about keil's titlebar not clicking the way he wants it to click. so pro. 
2020-09-25T19:57:43 < antto> GNU is gud, it's just.. senpai is biased
2020-09-25T19:57:50 < aandrew> some would say based
2020-09-25T19:57:58 < antto> he's afraid to cross to the other side of the road
2020-09-25T19:58:11 < antto> dongs, embrace teh GNU
2020-09-25T19:58:30 < antto> let it flow in ur veins
2020-09-25T19:58:57 < antto> <motivational_music.mp3>
2020-09-25T19:58:59 < aandrew> lol
2020-09-25T19:59:02 < antto> >:)
2020-09-25T19:59:11 < srk> motivational_music.pro
2020-09-25T19:59:20 < aandrew> just relax, grab those asscheeks and embrace the gnu
2020-09-25T19:59:42 < antto> aandrew, don't ruin it
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2020-09-25T20:27:52 < englishman> see the thing about keil
2020-09-25T20:27:58 < englishman> dongs is whining about title bars
2020-09-25T20:28:22 < englishman> you guys can't even agree on how to place shit in memory
2020-09-25T20:28:42 < englishman> the big problems are solved so all that's left is to complain about title bars
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2020-09-25T21:09:03 < aandrew> englishman: I see dongs made the wire transfer to your shill account
2020-09-25T21:19:00 < Steffanx> He's just pumping... someone has to take stvn's place
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2020-09-25T22:18:18 < jadew> https://i.imgur.com/XTcPPwO.mp4
2020-09-25T22:30:12 < steverrrr> hello, what's a reasonable price to rent a spectrum analyzer for 900MHz, for a day or a week?
2020-09-25T22:31:01 < aandrew> that's a good question; for 900MHz would you be better served with a nanovna+tg kind of thing or do you need it calibrated and so on
2020-09-25T22:35:03 < steverrrr> neat, have not seen those things.  that might be good enough, I just need to measure the 6db bandwidth >= 500khz
2020-09-25T22:41:52 < steverrrr> aandrew maybe not: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xMQZTy3iV9o  you'll get "double humps" lol
2020-09-25T22:47:37 < aandrew> I should check mine
2020-09-25T22:47:49 < aandrew> I have a little vna+tg, more of a sna really
2020-09-25T22:47:52 < aandrew> no display though
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2020-09-25T23:01:58 < steverrrr> hmm I bet it's probably worth it to just buy a proper one for $2500
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--- Day changed Sat Sep 26 2020
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2020-09-26T00:16:26 < zyp> update on my stone Crackies: https://bin.jvnv.net/file/Q2m7T.jpg
2020-09-26T00:17:51 < zyp> I'm starting to get a fairly big pile of leftover rocks
2020-09-26T00:20:55 < qyx_> you can start selling them
2020-09-26T00:21:06 < zyp> I figure the most convenient solution will probably be to just pile them up behind the house for now to get them out of the way, and deal with them after I've paved this area
2020-09-26T00:21:25 -!- qyx_ is now known as qyx
2020-09-26T00:23:25 < zyp> I'm considering getting a pallet jack, would be convenient for moving heavy shit around once I've paved around the house
2020-09-26T00:23:35 < zyp> including moving the pallets of paving stones
2020-09-26T00:30:28 < upgrdman> zyp, you're paving with bricks/block right? i think a pallet jack would get hung up on those edges easily
2020-09-26T00:30:45 < upgrdman> theyre usually made for concrete floors etc
2020-09-26T00:31:45 < zyp> I figure it should be even enough that it'll be fine
2020-09-26T00:31:53 < upgrdman> k'
2020-09-26T00:32:26 < zyp> https://bin.jvnv.net/file/v4ZQG.jpg
2020-09-26T00:33:30 < zyp> heh, made some progress since that photo was taken
2020-09-26T00:39:25 < tcth> nice zyp
2020-09-26T00:42:14 < zyp> different angle: https://bin.jvnv.net/file/lL6eV.jpg
2020-09-26T00:43:07 < zyp> tcth, need some exercise? you're welcome to come over and help me move those rocks :p
2020-09-26T00:44:27 < tcth> zyp, would love to come and help but carrying heavy stuff is really something I suck at.
2020-09-26T00:44:54 < zyp> now you're just admitting that you need the exercise :p
2020-09-26T00:45:04 < tcth> true :p
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2020-09-26T00:49:03 < zyp> and you don't have to carry it, you can trolly it over :p
2020-09-26T00:49:06 < aandrew> zyp: that looks like a fuckton of work
2020-09-26T00:49:11 < aandrew> trying to put a driveway through that?
2020-09-26T00:51:21 < zyp> refer to https://bin.jvnv.net/file/v4ZQG.jpg, the concrete wall on the left side runs along my property border, I'm planning to continue it all the way to the back and then pave everything between it and the house
2020-09-26T00:52:26 < zyp> currently I'm planning to finish the side along the house wall before I start on the back corner
2020-09-26T00:53:03 < zyp> i.e. extend the wall, backfill, pave
2020-09-26T00:54:03 < zyp> then once I've paved this part, accessing the back side will get easier
2020-09-26T00:55:33 < qyx> I am going to pave myself to bed
2020-09-26T00:55:40 < zyp> :)
2020-09-26T00:56:21 < qyx> i wanted to populate some protos but meh, my eyes don't agree
2020-09-26T00:57:39 < qyx> also I need to find a way to do Welch spectral density estimation on a 32000 point batch on a L4
2020-09-26T00:58:02 < qyx> I did some research and it looks like it will be easier than I first though
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2020-09-26T01:11:22 < karlp> convinced a friend to get an l4 nucleo32 instead of some avr breadboard, he's already loving it.
2020-09-26T01:11:39 < karlp> big features like, "if I plug 9V into it, I'll get 5V and 3v3 out of it for free!"
2020-09-26T01:15:22 < karlp> what should I buy from china tonight?
2020-09-26T01:16:45 < karlp> and, why can't my wife's mac chromecast to the tv, when my phone can, both on the same wifi?!
2020-09-26T01:17:25 < specing> bc its a mac
2020-09-26T01:17:36 < specing> is it an Apple TV?
2020-09-26T01:17:50 < karlp> no, android, 
2020-09-26T01:17:56 < karlp> wouldnb't be chromecast then.
2020-09-26T01:24:11 < karlp> https://ae01.alicdn.com/kf/H1a8920d0d1554a10830487fde5c9c7c4n.jpg
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2020-09-26T03:15:44 < englishman> lol karlp
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2020-09-26T11:47:03 < machinehum> So what's everyone's favorite movie?
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2020-09-26T12:48:05 < jsoft> Killer tomatos
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2020-09-26T14:20:00 < Laurenceb> is this the channel to join the global elite ninth circle satanic child sacrifice cult?
2020-09-26T14:20:06 < Laurenceb> q sent me
2020-09-26T14:20:24 < Laurenceb> trust the plan
2020-09-26T14:20:54 < steverrrr>  yes
2020-09-26T14:23:48 < qyx> Laurenceb: are you into welch?
2020-09-26T14:25:54 < Laurenceb> what do you mean?
2020-09-26T14:26:00 < Laurenceb> welch transform?
2020-09-26T14:26:05 < Laurenceb> I just used methlab tbh
2020-09-26T14:26:47 < qyx> welch spectral density estimation
2020-09-26T14:26:52 < qyx> pwelch in matlab
2020-09-26T14:27:02 < Laurenceb> yeah
2020-09-26T14:27:14 < Laurenceb> gnu-octave version is more functional iirc
2020-09-26T14:27:20 < Laurenceb> the one from octave-forge
2020-09-26T14:27:36 < qyx> yeah I am using pkg-signal
2020-09-26T14:27:49 < Laurenceb> should be possible to run on stm32 using the dsp toolkit without much trouble
2020-09-26T14:28:02 < qyx> thats what I am asking
2020-09-26T14:29:06 < Laurenceb> just look at the octave-forge source then implement using dsp toolkit tbh
2020-09-26T14:29:22 < qyx> whats the welch thing basically, lets have eg. 1024 samples, if overlap=0.5, window size is 256, I get x[0:256], x[128:384]...
2020-09-26T14:29:27 < qyx> do fft on every part
2020-09-26T14:29:43 < qyx> and then combine them together using sqrt(y^2)?
2020-09-26T14:29:59 < Laurenceb> yeah
2020-09-26T14:30:11 < qyx> not much hassle then
2020-09-26T14:30:13 < Laurenceb> but depending on what you want to do you can combine them in different ways
2020-09-26T14:30:24 < Laurenceb> e.g. cross spectral analysis and stuff
2020-09-26T14:30:24 < qyx> yes I noticed that
2020-09-26T14:30:41 < Laurenceb> octave-forge seems more useful for all the analysis techniques
2020-09-26T14:31:11 < Laurenceb> https://octave.sourceforge.io/signal/function/pwelch.html
2020-09-26T14:31:12  * qyx doing babyshake for bridges
2020-09-26T14:31:18 < Laurenceb> ah
2020-09-26T14:31:55 < Laurenceb> yeah that octave function can calculate transfer function between two sensors ignoring uncorrelated signals
2020-09-26T14:32:04 < Laurenceb> which would be useful for your application
2020-09-26T14:32:44 < qyx> to calcel out the noise?
2020-09-26T14:32:59 < Laurenceb> yeah, and uncorrelated signals
2020-09-26T14:33:18 < Laurenceb> e.g. a vehicle drives past one sensors but doesnt have much effect on the overall structure
2020-09-26T14:34:37 < qyx> this is for steel bridges to measure characteristic resonance frequencies of their parts
2020-09-26T14:35:46 < Laurenceb> sounds like you need
2020-09-26T14:35:49 < Laurenceb> [spectra,freq] = pwelch(x,y,window,overlap,Nfft,Fs,
2020-09-26T14:35:49 < Laurenceb> periodogram/FFT method.
2020-09-26T14:36:14 < Laurenceb> using the control string set to "trans"
2020-09-26T14:36:53 < qyx> so far I got this https://i.imgur.com/gPPEBgI.png
2020-09-26T14:37:03 < qyx> (the sensor is attached to a soldering station)
2020-09-26T14:37:16 < qyx> I am curious why theres no 50Hz peak
2020-09-26T14:37:40 < qyx> sensor LPF is set to ~235Hz 3dB corner, no HPF
2020-09-26T14:38:37 < Laurenceb> prob because the transformer core changes shape each time it gets magnetised
2020-09-26T14:38:46 < Laurenceb> so 100 times per second not 50
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2020-09-26T16:55:21 < Steffanx> wb jpa-
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2020-09-26T19:26:17 < jadew> are you guys aware of some analog simulation software that is more accurate than LTSpice & co?
2020-09-26T19:27:00 < mawk> Steffanx https://serveur.io/Probl%C3%A8me.png
2020-09-26T19:27:02 < mawk> find a
2020-09-26T19:27:10 < mawk> find a jadew , it's weekend
2020-09-26T19:27:12 < mawk> stop working
2020-09-26T19:27:26 < jadew> heh
2020-09-26T19:27:37 < jadew> you sound like my family
2020-09-26T19:28:01 < mawk> :(
2020-09-26T19:28:09 < mawk> family asks you to solve problems?
2020-09-26T19:28:12 < mawk> I want the same
2020-09-26T19:28:47 < jadew> what's that problem? find a?
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2020-09-26T19:29:28 < mawk> yes
2020-09-26T19:29:29 < mawk> find a
2020-09-26T19:29:35 < mawk> open the link
2020-09-26T19:29:41 < mawk> https://serveur.io/Probl%C3%A8me.png
2020-09-26T19:29:47 < jadew> opened it
2020-09-26T19:31:46 < mawk> then give the value of a
2020-09-26T19:37:50 < Steffanx> a = 2sqrt(25i)
2020-09-26T19:38:24 < PaulFertser> mawk: looks like your riddles became considerably simpler to make them more appealing to the ##stm32 audience ;)
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2020-09-26T19:39:42 < mawk> lol PaulFertser 
2020-09-26T19:39:44 < mawk> maybe
2020-09-26T19:39:53 < mawk> don't be silly Steffanx 
2020-09-26T19:40:20 < mawk> look at the base of the triangle
2020-09-26T19:40:37 < mawk> it's foo + a + 2a + 3a + bar = 1
2020-09-26T19:40:41 < mawk> so, find foo and bar
2020-09-26T19:41:23 < Steffanx> i was that far,but then was too lazy to do that
2020-09-26T19:41:36 < Steffanx> ok not lazy, but not in the mood
2020-09-26T19:43:25 < PaulFertser> \frac{\sqrt 3}{4 + 6\cdot\sqrt 3}
2020-09-26T19:43:29 < PaulFertser> Or something like that
2020-09-26T19:44:08 < Steffanx> or something is not very accurate.
2020-09-26T19:51:15 < PaulFertser> Either there's a gotcha or mawk thinks we're as smart as the usual school kids. Which might actually be not stretching the truth too far.
2020-09-26T19:53:09 < jadew> wolfram alpha says 9/46 - √3̅/23
2020-09-26T19:54:18 < jadew> so 0.12035?
2020-09-26T19:54:24 < PaulFertser> That's the same I said
2020-09-26T19:54:29 < jadew> yeah
2020-09-26T19:56:18 < Steffanx> lol wolfram is cheating
2020-09-26T19:58:03 < jadew> extracting the equation was the puzzle I guess
2020-09-26T19:59:53 < jadew> anyway, I learned something today...
2020-09-26T20:00:41 < PaulFertser> I have to admit the equivalence of my result and wolfram's is not evident to me :(
2020-09-26T20:01:21 < jadew> what I learned was not related to the problem
2020-09-26T20:01:52 < jadew> what i learned was that transistor gain-bandwith product is not reliable for the entire specified current rating
2020-09-26T20:01:53 < PaulFertser> Guess just divide it several times
2020-09-26T20:02:18 < mawk> there's no gotcha
2020-09-26T20:02:53 < mawk> 1/a = 6 + 4/√3
2020-09-26T20:03:58 < jadew> this is what I fed it: 4a + 6a * sqrt(3) = sqrt(3)
2020-09-26T20:04:28 < mawk> what
2020-09-26T20:04:32 < jadew> it's the same thing
2020-09-26T20:04:36 < mawk> you need WA to solve that??
2020-09-26T20:04:41 < mawk> factor by a
2020-09-26T20:04:44 < mawk> that's all
2020-09-26T20:05:01 < jadew> I have wf on speed dial
2020-09-26T20:05:05 < aandrew> mawk: I always suck at those problems
2020-09-26T20:05:12 < mawk> :(
2020-09-26T20:05:16 < mawk> PaulFertser 
2020-09-26T20:05:54 < aandrew> Im gong to guess it has something to do with calculating the hypotenuse of a right-angled triangle that has sides 5a and 3a
2020-09-26T20:06:00 < mawk> 1/a = 4√3 + 6 = 12/(4√3 - 6)
2020-09-26T20:06:10 < mawk> WA does like this PaulFertser 
2020-09-26T20:06:20 < mawk> or something
2020-09-26T20:06:56 < aandrew> mawk: what is that formula based on
2020-09-26T20:06:59 < mawk> anyway a + √b = (a²-b)/(a - √b)
2020-09-26T20:07:04 < mawk> this
2020-09-26T20:07:27 < aandrew> and what is that based on
2020-09-26T20:07:32 < mawk>  a+b = (a²-b²)/(a-b)
2020-09-26T20:07:34 < mawk> this
2020-09-26T20:07:40 < aandrew> quadratic equation?
2020-09-26T20:07:50 < mawk> not sure I'd call it like that
2020-09-26T20:07:57 < mawk> just a well knowk identity
2020-09-26T20:08:06 < mawk> (a+b)(a-b) = a²-b²
2020-09-26T20:08:10 < aandrew> it's not ringing a bell but it looked like a precursor to quadratic equation
2020-09-26T20:08:24 < aandrew> what is b in that equation?
2020-09-26T20:08:26 < mawk> well you can use that formula to solve a quadratic yes
2020-09-26T20:08:30 < mawk> anything you want
2020-09-26T20:08:36 < mawk> what I wrote always holds true
2020-09-26T20:08:38 < aandrew> no,
2020-09-26T20:08:41 < mawk> for a and b
2020-09-26T20:08:43 < aandrew> what I'm saying is how do you apply it here
2020-09-26T20:08:46 < mawk> ah
2020-09-26T20:08:59 < mawk> well here we have 1/(4√3 + 6)
2020-09-26T20:09:06 < mawk> and we want to make it less ugly
2020-09-26T20:09:08 < aandrew> where do you have that
2020-09-26T20:09:16 < mawk> in the triangle problem
2020-09-26T20:09:20 < aandrew> are we looking at the asme three squares inscribed in a triangle?
2020-09-26T20:09:21 < mawk> look at the base of the triangle
2020-09-26T20:09:32 < mawk> we have foo + a + 2a + 3a + bar = 1
2020-09-26T20:09:37 < mawk> you see what foo and bar are ?
2020-09-26T20:09:37 < aandrew> ahh yes
2020-09-26T20:09:57 < aandrew> yeah they're the "remainders" of the side of the big triangle not occupied by the 3 squares
2020-09-26T20:10:08 < mawk> triangle is equilateral, so using basic trig we have foo = a/tan(60°)
2020-09-26T20:10:11 < aandrew> you have foo + bar + 6a = 1
2020-09-26T20:10:22 < mawk> and bar = 3a/tan(60°)
2020-09-26T20:10:24 < mawk> yes indeed
2020-09-26T20:10:26 < aandrew> oh yes
2020-09-26T20:10:29 < aandrew> I see where you're going now
2020-09-26T20:10:48 < mawk> so now we have a(4/tan(60°) + 6) = 1
2020-09-26T20:10:55 < mawk> and tan (60°) = √3
2020-09-26T20:11:04 < aandrew> tan(60) = a/foo
2020-09-26T20:11:10 < mawk> so 1/a = 4/√3 + 6
2020-09-26T20:11:16 < aandrew> yes yes I see what you did now
2020-09-26T20:11:21 < mawk> we want to transform it so it's nice
2020-09-26T20:11:32 < aandrew> you can subtract foo and bar from 1 to get 6a, then /6 to get a
2020-09-26T20:11:47 < mawk> no
2020-09-26T20:11:51 < mawk> foo and bar depend on a
2020-09-26T20:11:55 < mawk> we need to keep them
2020-09-26T20:12:01 < mawk> we just factor out the a in it
2020-09-26T20:12:17 < aandrew> ah. yes. did I mention I suck at these
2020-09-26T20:12:21 < mawk> 1/a = 6 + (4√3)/3 here I multiplied top and bottom of 4/√3 by √3
2020-09-26T20:12:48 < mawk> 1/a = (18+4√3)/3 put on common denominator
2020-09-26T20:13:05 < mawk> now a = 3/(18+4√3)
2020-09-26T20:13:19 < mawk> and wz need to simplify it because it's ugly
2020-09-26T20:13:33 < mawk> a = 3/2 1/(9 + 2√3)
2020-09-26T20:13:43 < mawk> so here is the thing with the quadratic thing aandrew 
2020-09-26T20:14:05 < mawk> we need to transform 1/(9+2√3) into something with no √ at denominator
2020-09-26T20:15:10 < mawk> you see how to do it?
2020-09-26T20:15:12 < Steffanx> using well known identities is like.. cheating mawk P
2020-09-26T20:15:13 < Steffanx> :P
2020-09-26T20:15:25 < mawk> :(
2020-09-26T20:15:27 < mawk> false
2020-09-26T20:15:38 < Steffanx> you have to derrive the formula yourself
2020-09-26T20:15:51 < mawk> easy
2020-09-26T20:15:52 < aandrew> you could cube everything
2020-09-26T20:16:05 < mawk> lol aandrew 
2020-09-26T20:16:09 < aandrew> but I suspect you have a much better way
2020-09-26T20:16:10 < mawk> that would seem worse
2020-09-26T20:16:20 < mawk> well the quadratic thing
2020-09-26T20:16:49 < mawk> if you have 1/(a+b√c) you can multiply numerator and denominator by a-b√c
2020-09-26T20:17:04 < mawk> denominator becomes a²-b²c, no √ anymore
2020-09-26T20:17:14 < mawk> and numerator is just a-b√c
2020-09-26T20:17:18 < aandrew> yeah I forget all this
2020-09-26T20:17:30 < PaulFertser> dongs will like this: http://esr.ibiblio.org/?p=8764 (tldr: microsoft will abandon windows and instead provide their software on GNU/Linux, contributing to wine for legacy applications)
2020-09-26T20:17:31 < aandrew> although my sons are learning basics of algebra right now so I best get good at it fast
2020-09-26T20:17:59 < Steffanx> mawk and how did you come up with this problem?
2020-09-26T20:19:00 < mawk> you can ask me aandrew for refreshers when you want 
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2020-09-26T20:19:08 < mawk> I saw it somewhere Steffanx 
2020-09-26T20:19:31 < kaki0> hello M hello S
2020-09-26T20:20:01 < aandrew> mawk: I'd prefer not to embarass myself that easily. :-) but will ask if I get stuck
2020-09-26T20:20:06 < aandrew> PaulFertser: heh
2020-09-26T20:20:12 < aandrew> crazy old uncle ESR
2020-09-26T20:20:13 < mawk> lol
2020-09-26T20:20:21 < mawk> I teach a bunch of adults don't worry
2020-09-26T20:20:43 < mawk> not formally through a school I mean, but still
2020-09-26T20:20:59 < PaulFertser> aandrew: what about geometry? I can give give you one that's supposed to be quite easy (for regular school) but I still had issues figuring it out.
2020-09-26T20:21:43 < aandrew> PaulFertser: sure thing
2020-09-26T20:22:00 < aandrew> mawk: that's awesome, no sarcasm
2020-09-26T20:24:55 < PaulFertser> aandrew: http://paulfertser.info/geometry_task_page3.pdf (page 3, top one, everything's on the drawing)
2020-09-26T20:25:03 < Steffanx> btw, i get the idea the average high school math level is much higher than in dutchland PaulFertser
2020-09-26T20:25:25 < aandrew> PaulFertser: let me get google translator out ofr that
2020-09-26T20:25:40 < PaulFertser> aandrew: you do not need translation, it's all in the drawing
2020-09-26T20:25:48 < Steffanx> where are the page numbers? :P
2020-09-26T20:25:56 < PaulFertser> aandrew: I reread the task description just now, it's fully redudant.
2020-09-26T20:26:03 < PaulFertser> Steffanx: in your pdf viewer
2020-09-26T20:26:16 < Steffanx> i printed it
2020-09-26T20:26:48 < aandrew> oh, ohff
2020-09-26T20:27:30 < aandrew> sorry I thought page 1page 3 question 7
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2020-09-26T20:28:07 < PaulFertser> This is supposed to be a good task for a 14 y.o. A-grader from regular school.
2020-09-26T20:28:42 < aandrew> it's asking what length x is?
2020-09-26T20:28:56 < Steffanx> Yes, how can you not need russian translate? What's the question
2020-09-26T20:29:00 < PaulFertser> aandrew: yes
2020-09-26T20:29:36 < Steffanx> Tочка :)
2020-09-26T20:29:45 < PaulFertser> Запятая
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2020-09-26T20:30:30 < aandrew> hm, I hav eto think about it. 
2020-09-26T20:30:58 < boddax> عَرَبيْ
2020-09-26T20:32:32 < Steffanx> параллелограмма that must the first russian word which with some imagination looks like hte english word :)
2020-09-26T20:32:33 < aandrew> KC = KM = 5, and I think you can probably figure out KAH = CKM 
2020-09-26T20:32:58 < aandrew> BKA = KAH = CKM too
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2020-09-26T20:33:40 < PaulFertser> aandrew: how do you prove KC = KM?
2020-09-26T20:34:07 < PaulFertser> Steffanx: hah, some of our letters are not too different from Latin ones. Still a pita. 
2020-09-26T20:34:16 < aandrew> oh maybe it isn't. I was thinking it was isosceles
2020-09-26T20:35:28 < Cracki> mawk, >>> sym.solveset(x / 2 - (1-x) * sym.sqrt(3), x)  # {12/11 - 2*sqrt(3)/11}
2020-09-26T20:35:38 < Cracki> oh nvm
2020-09-26T20:36:10 < Cracki> damn you and your nerdsniping
2020-09-26T20:36:45 < aandrew> lol
2020-09-26T20:36:51 < aandrew> you bunch of fucking nerds
2020-09-26T20:37:31 < aandrew> PaulFertser: I'm quite sure this is easy for a grade 8 (14yo) student here, but for my addled brain I can't remember the identiies that would make ti work
2020-09-26T20:37:44 < mawk> параллелограмма
2020-09-26T20:37:51 < mawk> parallelogramma
2020-09-26T20:38:03 < Cracki> ok, handy definition sqrt(3) = s because cba to type it
2020-09-26T20:38:17 < Cracki> so 1 == a/s + a + 2a + 3a + 3a/s
2020-09-26T20:38:26 < mawk> yes
2020-09-26T20:38:29 < PaulFertser> aandrew: tbh, after spending hour of thinking about that easy task I cheated and used solvespace to draw it. Once I could "feel" what degrees of freedom are left and how they affect the outcome the answer was almost obvious.  
2020-09-26T20:38:47 < Cracki> I'll have to check that expression some more
2020-09-26T20:38:50 < aandrew> PaulFertser: nice
2020-09-26T20:39:39 < Cracki> a = 9/46 - sqrt(3)/23
2020-09-26T20:39:41 < Cracki> ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
2020-09-26T20:40:43 < Cracki> test fails, oh well
2020-09-26T20:41:15 < Cracki> eh no, solution is good
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2020-09-26T20:42:44 < Cracki> I think the hint about foo + ... + bar could have suggested those things are independent of each other
2020-09-26T20:43:10 < PaulFertser> So using constraint-based modelling helps with geometry :) Probably a good way to teach your sons some CADing.
2020-09-26T20:44:02 < Cracki> ye one could solve that in CAD
2020-09-26T20:44:23 < PaulFertser> Solve as in get the x right away, yes. But CAD also helps with finding the proof.
2020-09-26T20:44:34 < Cracki> ironically most of the "geometry" programs for kids I've seen have no actual solvers in them, or they're impossible to operate
2020-09-26T20:44:46 < Cracki> autodesk, just create the primitives and link them with constraints
2020-09-26T20:45:05 < Cracki> cad won't give me symbolic expressions, or even fractions, but it'll solve it
2020-09-26T20:46:24 < PaulFertser> My point is that if it's not fully constrained (and it usually isn't) then you can stretch it in various directions to literally see what's essential about the problem and what's not. And that'll help with constructing the proof.
2020-09-26T20:46:26 < Cracki> who here has been involved in job interviews on the company side of the setting? do you pose IQ tests or not?
2020-09-26T20:46:37 < Cracki> that too, it's nice to play with things
2020-09-26T20:47:11 < Cracki> this geometry question reminds me of things one might ask an applicant in a job interview
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2020-09-26T20:47:47 < PaulFertser> I'm afraid that'd test geometry skills only, hard to extrapolate from that.
2020-09-26T20:48:17 < aandrew> I loved constrained design software, it helps me see where I made some pretty assinine assumptions early on
2020-09-26T20:48:29 < PaulFertser> But not anymore?
2020-09-26T20:49:15 < aandrew> love, not sure where the d came from
2020-09-26T20:49:23 < aandrew> kinda just popped up outta nowhere
2020-09-26T20:49:31 < PaulFertser> cosmic rays
2020-09-26T20:49:53 < Cracki> one could test pattern recog and synthesis, which is the majority/only task in modern IQ tests. or one could assume some high school math background and test understanding of statistics/probability, formal logic, ...
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2020-09-26T20:50:18 < PaulFertser> Did anyone here try to build a cloud chamber for them?
2020-09-26T20:50:30 < Cracki> I would test that on everyone, especially leadership and business decision positions
2020-09-26T20:50:50 < Cracki> are you srsly talking about putting [...] in chambers?
2020-09-26T20:51:02 < PaulFertser> :D
2020-09-26T20:51:13 < Cracki> next you'll count and number them
2020-09-26T20:51:33 < Cracki> actually a good idea
2020-09-26T20:57:49 < aandrew> https://i.redd.it/3y1c0pl0qhp51.jpg
2020-09-26T21:00:45 < PaulFertser> outlet is a funny word
2020-09-26T21:02:36 < aandrew> it's where the angry pixies get out from the wall
2020-09-26T21:03:04 < Cracki> >THIS SUCC
2020-09-26T21:03:24 < PaulFertser> It conveys the idea that energy can be consumed out of it. But misses the point that the electric current flows both directions.
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2020-09-26T21:07:21 < PaulFertser> mawk: do you need a hint for that geometry task? I'm afraid it'd be too revealing.
2020-09-26T21:07:58 < mawk> ah I didn't see, hold on
2020-09-26T21:09:18 < mawk> I don't think I need hint
2020-09-26T21:10:20 < PaulFertser> :)
2020-09-26T21:18:52 < Steffanx> Did you buy some pepernoten yet, mawk?
2020-09-26T21:19:53 < mawk> not yet
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2020-09-26T21:24:33 < Steffanx> :o
2020-09-26T21:24:48 < Steffanx> how can you solve math problens without pepernoten
2020-09-26T21:31:15 < Cracki> cat https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FqjLyc00fPY
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2020-09-26T21:43:25 < Cracki> waaaw https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4nEd1jTTIUQ
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2020-09-26T22:13:37 < Cracki> maaan I'm becoming a fan of Malcolm X
2020-09-26T22:17:01 < Steffanx> uh what?
2020-09-26T22:18:18 < Cracki> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Malcolm_X_Day
2020-09-26T22:18:53 < Cracki> he's got his own holiday, he's a state-approved role model and saint
2020-09-26T22:19:17 < Cracki> or city-approved anyway
2020-09-26T22:20:34 < Cracki> if he were alive today, he'd push for building an actual wakanda, free from white oppression
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2020-09-26T22:39:37 < Cracki> musics https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eTlv2gfrINM
2020-09-26T22:45:26 < Steffanx> music you said right?
2020-09-26T22:47:10 < Cracki> everybody in here closes the tab before the music stops
2020-09-26T22:47:47 < Cracki> did you just disparage their cultural achievements :>
2020-09-26T22:49:15 < Ultrasauce> hi
2020-09-26T22:52:19 < Steffanx> lo
2020-09-26T22:53:38 < kaki0> Trump keeps sending me email
2020-09-26T22:53:50 < kaki0> at least once a day
2020-09-26T22:54:37 < Cracki> you can mail in your vote for him
2020-09-26T22:54:51 < Cracki> I'm sure they'll think finland is a state
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2020-09-26T22:55:24 < kaki0> he wants to meet me in New Jersey
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2020-09-26T22:55:41 < Cracki> OwO a hookup
2020-09-26T22:55:45 < kaki0> also I should maybe give money to his campaing
2020-09-26T22:56:10 < Cracki> stick dollar bills in his thong and bra
2020-09-26T22:56:50 < Cracki> until he purges the country of bolsheviks he hasn't done the job he was elected to do
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2020-09-26T22:59:35  * qyx ordering solder, any ideas for lower temp ones?
2020-09-26T23:00:08 < Cracki> chipquik or sth?
2020-09-26T23:01:20 < upgrdman> bought a couple 4k144 10bit monitors... god damn. nice.
2020-09-26T23:01:32 < upgrdman> now i just need a 3080 or 3090 to fully use them :/
2020-09-26T23:01:44 < upgrdman> my 1080 can only go 4k120 8bit or 4k95 10bit
2020-09-26T23:02:10 < Cracki> a pinch, a tablespoon, a cup of monitor
2020-09-26T23:02:20 < Cracki> so you need a new gpu
2020-09-26T23:02:25 < Cracki> 3090 perhaps
2020-09-26T23:02:40 < upgrdman> ya
2020-09-26T23:02:46 < upgrdman> which means a i need a bigger psu
2020-09-26T23:02:51 < upgrdman> which means i need a bigger case
2020-09-26T23:02:57 < Cracki> oh btw, watch the air flow
2020-09-26T23:02:59 < upgrdman> which means i might as well... buy all the things
2020-09-26T23:03:02 < upgrdman> ya
2020-09-26T23:03:06 < Cracki> I have a 2070 here and it's _not_ moving the air outside
2020-09-26T23:03:27 < Cracki> so that leads to cpu sucking warm air
2020-09-26T23:05:03 < Cracki> what _are_ you gonna do with 144 hz
2020-09-26T23:05:25 < Cracki> I see the benefit of 144 for shutter screens, you'd have 72/eye
2020-09-26T23:05:50 < Cracki> all the other stuff 144 gives you you can have at 60 hz too, such as low "exposure times" to reduce motion blur
2020-09-26T23:06:05 < upgrdman> Cracki, scrolling PDFs mostly
2020-09-26T23:06:09 < upgrdman> :)
2020-09-26T23:06:17 < Cracki> I was afraid of that :>
2020-09-26T23:06:39 < upgrdman> but i have a few games that i play. gta v, doom, and lots of old early 2000
2020-09-26T23:06:45 < upgrdman> early 2000's era games
2020-09-26T23:08:02 < upgrdman> this is almost my first gsync monitor
2020-09-26T23:08:16 < upgrdman> eager to see if i can tell a difference. bbl, trying gta v
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2020-09-26T23:17:43 < Cracki> switched the computer's case because the old one had no fan mounts anywhere. initially wondered how to screw in the standoffs for the mainboard... _after_ I got them screwed in with extra tools, I noticed they sent a little "bit" along that's philips topside and hex socket downside
2020-09-26T23:25:44 < Cracki> internet isn't sure if they're 5 mm or 3/16 or something weird. 5 mm socket did work.
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2020-09-26T23:45:55 < Steffanx> Hah. Lol.
2020-09-26T23:47:11 < upgrdman> do i have enough monitors now? http://farrellf.com/temp/monitors.jpg
2020-09-26T23:47:28 < upgrdman> 2 4k144 10bit, and 2 4k60 8bit
2020-09-26T23:47:29 < Steffanx> you can only properly see 2?
2020-09-26T23:47:40  * karlp only has 1. matching keyboard though
2020-09-26T23:47:41 < upgrdman> Steffanx, for now
2020-09-26T23:47:46 < Steffanx> which lg is it?
2020-09-26T23:48:04 < karlp> upgrdman: is that the ikea drawers on the right?
2020-09-26T23:48:11 < karlp> same as mine, only I have a dark blue :)
2020-09-26T23:48:28 < upgrdman> https://www.lg.com/us/monitors/lg-27gn950-b-gaming-monitor
2020-09-26T23:48:47 < upgrdman> karlp, ya. ikea desktop and drawers
2020-09-26T23:51:17 < englishman> fyi everyone: ikea made a cheap ($200) sit-stand desk
2020-09-26T23:51:22 < englishman> manual crank
2020-09-26T23:59:58 < Cracki> they look rather small for 4k ones I gotta say. that must be retina resolution unless your nose tip touches the screen
--- Day changed Sun Sep 27 2020
2020-09-27T00:00:58 < Cracki> oooh https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=si-YlzHaSP0
2020-09-27T00:05:27 < aandrew> jesus $800 for a monitor
2020-09-27T00:05:45 < aandrew> I'm trying to find sub-200 4k monitors
2020-09-27T00:08:03 < Steffanx> -_-
2020-09-27T00:08:34 < Cracki> the price comparison tool for my nation gives _one_ product that's 4K and 194 eurobucks
2020-09-27T00:08:37 < Cracki> rest is above
2020-09-27T00:08:45 < Cracki> some samsung 28"
2020-09-27T00:12:03 < upgrdman> gaming at 4k120 is so much nicer, damn
2020-09-27T00:12:22 < upgrdman> now i know why gaymer fags are lining up to buy 240hz and 360hz monitors
2020-09-27T00:24:11 < qyx> aandrew: if you find a cinemascreen super-flat 4K under 200, let me know
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2020-09-27T00:24:51 < qyx> oh, ips
2020-09-27T00:25:56 < aandrew> nah I don't care for cinemascreen
2020-09-27T00:25:58 < aandrew> just want moar pixels
2020-09-27T00:26:09 < aandrew> dont' need 120hz, don't need curved, don't need colour accuracy
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2020-09-27T00:26:13 < aandrew> just give me mothafuckin pixels
2020-09-27T00:27:08 < qyx> I want cinemascreen because I want two
2020-09-27T00:27:41 < qyx> those upgrdman's three are okish, the one is disastrous
2020-09-27T00:28:31 < aandrew> for 4k one is fine for me, but I can see the draw for two
2020-09-27T00:28:43 < aandrew> my workstation presently has two syncmaster 2048xsomthing screens and it's awesome
2020-09-27T00:30:56 < englishman> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bjdvlXk8zYk
2020-09-27T00:30:58 < Steffanx> 360Hz. My ass....
2020-09-27T00:31:01 < englishman> 144Hz
2020-09-27T00:32:21 < englishman> 52lbs lol
2020-09-27T00:32:26 < Steffanx> Yeah but upgrdman talked about 240 and 360
2020-09-27T00:33:06 < englishman> https://www.ebay.com/itm/gaymers-ruin-everything/333669621906
2020-09-27T00:33:10 < englishman> vintage gaming monitor
2020-09-27T00:33:11 < englishman> lol
2020-09-27T00:33:50 < englishman> does pspice look better at 320Hz
2020-09-27T00:34:15 < Steffanx> I bet 
2020-09-27T00:36:15 < aandrew> lol
2020-09-27T00:36:37 < aandrew> you mean the thing that looks like 1980s pre-antialiasing and which updates at 10hz? yeah that'll look fine upscaled
2020-09-27T00:36:49 < englishman> o
2020-09-27T00:36:52 < englishman> aandrew: 
2020-09-27T00:36:57 < englishman> check out pspice for TI
2020-09-27T00:37:02 < englishman> free cadence pspice
2020-09-27T00:37:03 < englishman> for TI
2020-09-27T00:37:21 < englishman> uninstalled LTspice.
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2020-09-27T01:00:43 < qyx> does it run on a pro OS?
2020-09-27T01:01:17 < aandrew> nope, windows only
2020-09-27T01:02:40 < Steffanx> And its a bit crippled with non-TI models i read?
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2020-09-27T01:32:39 < Laurenceb> https://journals.sagepub.com/doi/abs/10.1177/1461444820948803
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2020-09-27T01:46:53 < Steffanx> How youre not a co-writer mr Laurenceb 
2020-09-27T01:49:27 < Laurenceb> lol
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2020-09-27T01:57:30 < aandrew> does it involve shaking babies?
2020-09-27T01:58:02 < aandrew> The challenges of studying 4chan and the Alt-Right: ‘Come on in the water’s fine’
2020-09-27T01:58:03 < emeb> Sheik Yerbabbie
2020-09-27T01:58:05 < aandrew> nope
2020-09-27T01:59:51 < qyx> related, so basically fuk the welch
2020-09-27T02:00:00 < qyx> also, I plan to omit decimation completely
2020-09-27T02:00:40 < qyx> if the welch's overlap could be 0%
2020-09-27T02:00:58 < qyx> I'll simply DMA in samples at the nominal Fs into a ring buffer
2020-09-27T02:01:10 < qyx> and make FFT on one half
2020-09-27T02:01:30 < qyx> and then process the output - mean, max hold
2020-09-27T02:02:26 < qyx> for eg. 256 buffer half-lengths
2020-09-27T02:02:45 < qyx> or I may use moving average or whatever for continuous output
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2020-09-27T02:05:12 < Cracki> :D the water _is_ fine
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2020-09-27T02:16:06 < Cracki> :D https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8zE5QpgjpPg
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2020-09-27T02:29:05 < Laurenceb> lollll
2020-09-27T02:29:08 < Laurenceb> https://tech.slashdot.org/story/20/09/25/2222201/google-maps-to-block-users-from-virtual-visits-of-australian-uluru
2020-09-27T02:35:56 < Cracki> so instead of cleaning up they prefer to hide it
2020-09-27T02:40:40 < Cracki> wtf I know that thing only as ayers rock but the first wikipedia entry is from 2007 and already redirects to that sign of surrender
2020-09-27T02:42:07 < Cracki> 1993 wtf who revised that part of history
2020-09-27T02:44:52 < aandrew> qyx: what's that for?
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2020-09-27T02:51:56 < Laurenceb> Elon Musk cooling: when u boil water and store steam in the same container
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2020-09-27T10:19:10 < jly> fucken
2020-09-27T10:19:11 < jly> hi
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2020-09-27T10:21:20 < dongs> hello crt
2020-09-27T10:21:25 < dongs> when will you return to telegram
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2020-09-27T10:22:01 < jly> soon enough
2020-09-27T10:22:19 < jly> stvn is getting repaired
2020-09-27T10:22:45 < jly> idk if you read all the failures of the government in VIC australia
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2020-09-27T15:32:01 < Steffanx> hm
2020-09-27T15:46:38 < antto> quiet everybody, Steffanx is thinking
2020-09-27T15:47:02 < antto> <meditation.mp3>
2020-09-27T15:47:34 < antto> <binaural_bullshizzle_HQ.flac>
2020-09-27T15:47:55 < antto> <feng-shui_perfection.svg>
2020-09-27T15:48:49 < Steffanx> File Not Found.
2020-09-27T16:00:48 < antto> thinking process aborted. resources not found.
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2020-09-27T16:12:11 < aandrew> I thought I smelled something smouldering
2020-09-27T16:12:26 < aandrew> binaural_bullshizzle_HQ.flac  <-- fucking lol
2020-09-27T16:24:40 < Steffanx> Youve mail antto ?
2020-09-27T16:24:54 < antto> no
2020-09-27T16:29:01 -!- qyx [~qyx@gw2.krtko.org] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds]
2020-09-27T16:30:36 < Steffanx> Hm
2020-09-27T16:30:50 -!- qyx [~qyx@84.245.120.232] has joined ##stm32
2020-09-27T16:31:14 < Steffanx> Did you know "Hm" is short for "Hello mate(s)"?
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2020-09-27T16:41:50 < jly> hello individuals 
2020-09-27T16:42:04 < jly> Steffanx is it time 
2020-09-27T16:42:07 < jly> time?
2020-09-27T16:42:22 < Steffanx> Hm
2020-09-27T16:42:35 < jly> yes that's right
2020-09-27T16:42:35 < Steffanx> It's always time jly
2020-09-27T16:42:47 < jly> can't sleep
2020-09-27T16:44:06 < Steffanx> ohno
2020-09-27T16:44:11 < Steffanx> but its not sleeping time yet
2020-09-27T16:44:21 < jly> its almost midnight here
2020-09-27T16:44:44 < jly> oi
2020-09-27T16:44:50 < jly> can u see my replies 
2020-09-27T16:45:01 < Steffanx> Yessir
2020-09-27T16:45:04 < jly> cool
2020-09-27T16:45:09 < jly> so you really paid for that y/n
2020-09-27T16:45:15 < Steffanx> y
2020-09-27T16:45:28 < englishman> jly
2020-09-27T16:45:51 < jly> hi sir
2020-09-27T16:47:54 < Steffanx> How are the funds mate?
2020-09-27T16:49:12 < jly> SAFU
2020-09-27T16:49:28 < jly> I haven't spent fuck all
2020-09-27T16:49:38 < jly> there's no place to waste money
2020-09-27T16:49:46 < karlp> fucking ali is being weird with my ccard again.
2020-09-27T16:49:50 < karlp> let me give you money!
2020-09-27T16:50:30 < jly> what happens
2020-09-27T16:52:06 < karlp> just blcoks the transaction
2020-09-27T16:52:16 < karlp> sometimes in the past it's been enough to delete the card and readd it.
2020-09-27T16:52:18 < karlp> not today
2020-09-27T16:53:14 < jly> chyna
2020-09-27T17:00:55 < englishman> AliExpress > eBay now
2020-09-27T17:01:02 < englishman> I ordered some chink shit off ebay
2020-09-27T17:01:09 < englishman> says delivery in December
2020-09-27T17:01:15 < englishman> dumbass hasn't even shipped it yet
2020-09-27T17:01:18 < englishman> BUT
2020-09-27T17:01:24 < englishman> I can't contest it until December
2020-09-27T17:01:25 < englishman> rip
2020-09-27T17:01:32 < englishman> last eBay chink purchase I think
2020-09-27T17:01:57 < karlp> ali has beenn better than ebay for years
2020-09-27T17:03:27 < Steffanx> indeed
2020-09-27T17:08:39 < mawk> Steffanx: https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/7/73/Fulica_atra%2C_Bl%C3%A4sshuhn_am_Adenauer-Weiher.jpg
2020-09-27T17:08:43 < mawk> netherland's spirit animal
2020-09-27T17:09:17 < Steffanx> hmm?
2020-09-27T17:09:58 < mawk> you don't have hundreds of them in your canals ?
2020-09-27T17:10:01 < mawk> delft is infestated with them
2020-09-27T17:16:15 < Steffanx> the ones i see are mainly mallard ducks
2020-09-27T17:42:50 < Cracki> catch and eat
2020-09-27T17:44:50 < Cracki> 0.4 m long, that's a good size for a rotisserie chicken
2020-09-27T17:44:56 < mawk> lol
2020-09-27T17:45:29 < Cracki> google won't show me size comparisons, not even banana for scale
2020-09-27T17:46:04 < Cracki> had a biologist in another channel who wanted to measure snakes. those are simple to measure. they're just angery ropes.
2020-09-27T17:46:19 < Cracki> trash chickens, how do you measure them really
2020-09-27T17:47:14 < mawk> by equivalent snake weight
2020-09-27T17:47:17 < mawk> easy
2020-09-27T17:47:46 < mawk> take a snake of the same weight, measure the snake, that's the length of the chicken
2020-09-27T17:48:14 < Cracki> heh
2020-09-27T17:49:08 < Cracki> ye says here coots are close to 1 kg, chickens are a little larger but vary a lot
2020-09-27T17:49:49 < mawk> I tried to catch them when I was little on vacation to NL
2020-09-27T17:49:58 < mawk> frysian islands have tons of them
2020-09-27T17:50:34 < Cracki> the pigeons around here are getting brash. you can almost step on them if you try.
2020-09-27T17:51:21 < Cracki> they seem to be the only bird that has learned that humans walk in straight lines and tend to avoid even tiny obstacles, so they stay calm and where they are
2020-09-27T17:51:42 < mawk> pigeons are the most intelligent birds anyway no ?
2020-09-27T17:51:48 < mawk> when they do computation tasks
2020-09-27T17:51:52 < mawk> addition etc
2020-09-27T17:52:12 < Cracki> not sure if intelligent but they breed like fuck and some behaviors favor procreation
2020-09-27T17:52:19 < Cracki> such as not wasting energy avoiding humans
2020-09-27T17:52:25 < mawk> yeah
2020-09-27T17:53:07 < Cracki> huh, says here pigeons can learn some math
2020-09-27T17:54:23 < Cracki> "higher math" they call sorting https://www.nytimes.com/2011/12/23/science/pigeons-can-learn-higher-math-as-well-as-monkeys-study-suggests.html
2020-09-27T17:55:14 < Cracki> average ny times reader probably agrees
2020-09-27T17:55:50 < qyx> lol
2020-09-27T17:55:51 < Cracki> I think I'll swap the coots on the rotisserie for nyt journos
2020-09-27T18:02:18 < Cracki> lol they're assigned to the top right quadrant on the political compass. yeah right. they're still the media.
2020-09-27T18:10:08 < qyx> hm, there were such halfbridges with high_in, low_in, current sensing amp, integrated mosfet + drivers, etc.
2020-09-27T18:10:32 < qyx> I cannot find a single such thing now
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2020-09-27T18:35:04 < zyp> qyx, for what?
2020-09-27T18:35:17 < zyp> I think SLG47105 looks interesting
2020-09-27T18:38:17 < qyx> for my G4 power-everything toy
2020-09-27T18:38:42 < qyx> I'll probably go with discrete mosfets + drivers
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2020-09-27T21:50:18 < mawk> PaulFertser: I remembered I had your problem opened
2020-09-27T21:50:39 < PaulFertser> mawk: anything unclear about it?
2020-09-27T21:50:39 < mawk> diagnostika 2019
2020-09-27T21:50:44 < mawk> no, I tried it
2020-09-27T21:50:46 < mawk> answer is 8 ?
2020-09-27T21:51:57 < mawk> but I don't like my proof
2020-09-27T21:52:01 < mawk> it's a bit ugly
2020-09-27T21:54:03 < mawk> I found two equations on x, then combined them
2020-09-27T21:54:22 < qyx> such code https://i.imgur.com/pyVFbUA.png
2020-09-27T21:55:34 < mawk> if we call γ the emphasized angle on the drawing, coordinates of K are (x; KH), coordinates of M are (11 + d/2, KH/2), and we must have vectors KM and (cos(γ), -sin(γ)) be colinear
2020-09-27T21:56:40 < mawk> so we must have (KH/2)² / ||KH||² = sin(γ)², and reorganizing we get 3x = 22+d
2020-09-27T21:56:59 < mawk> it's ||KM||² sorry
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2020-09-27T21:57:16 < mawk> and the second way to express x is just x = 6+d
2020-09-27T21:57:24 < Cracki> qyx, google that email address
2020-09-27T21:57:34 < Cracki> publications on .mil sites
2020-09-27T21:57:50 < Cracki> appears to be an u.s. army dude
2020-09-27T21:57:55 < Cracki> https://www.codechef.com/users/yagenaut
2020-09-27T21:57:56 < mawk> combine both, we get x = 8 and d = 2
2020-09-27T21:58:13 < mawk> mega ugly code qyx 
2020-09-27T21:58:22 < Cracki> https://apps.dtic.mil/dtic/tr/fulltext/u2/a591616.pdf
2020-09-27T21:58:31 < mawk> yagenaut, juggernaut ?
2020-09-27T21:59:26 < Cracki> Robert J. Yager
2020-09-27T21:59:47 < qyx> Cracki: it doesn't matter, it is just a hivnokod
2020-09-27T21:59:49 < qyx> *hovnokod
2020-09-27T21:59:49 < mawk> amirite PaulFertser 
2020-09-27T21:59:55 < Cracki> a wat
2020-09-27T22:00:15 < qyx> a shitty code
2020-09-27T22:00:33 < qyx> do you know hovnokod.cz?
2020-09-27T22:01:43 < Cracki> ic
2020-09-27T22:01:46 < qyx> mhm, very strange languages those days
2020-09-27T22:01:48 < Steffanx> do they english?
2020-09-27T22:01:56 < qyx> php in 2020?
2020-09-27T22:02:01 < Cracki> "bash.org" for shitty code
2020-09-27T22:02:06 < PaulFertser> mawk: iirc yeah. But it's an interesting way to solve it, I did it differently, without trig functions at all, wanna hear?
2020-09-27T22:02:12 < mawk> yeah
2020-09-27T22:02:35 < mawk> the trig functions are just intermediary
2020-09-27T22:02:51 < mawk> they disappear in the final result, there's probably a way to make them disappear from the intermediate calculations as well
2020-09-27T22:03:27 < PaulFertser> mawk: so I draw perpendiculars from M to BC and from B to AD
2020-09-27T22:04:21 < mawk> yes
2020-09-27T22:04:28 < PaulFertser> mawk: since BAD = BCD and 2CM = AB the triangles are exactly 2x the size
2020-09-27T22:04:55 < mawk> ah yes
2020-09-27T22:05:26 < PaulFertser> mawk: and then I reason the same about KAH triangle and KM(whatever you called perpendicular point)
2020-09-27T22:07:10 < mawk> yes I see
2020-09-27T22:07:27 < PaulFertser> mawk: so we have a way to make a simple equation for x now
2020-09-27T22:08:34 < PaulFertser> x - 6 = (5 - x/2) * 2
2020-09-27T22:09:04 < mawk> yes so x = 8
2020-09-27T22:09:06 < mawk> cool way
2020-09-27T22:09:40 < PaulFertser> Thanks :)
2020-09-27T22:10:02 < PaulFertser> Your way is interesting, I guess more complicated though.
2020-09-27T22:10:22 < PaulFertser> You certainly like algebras more than any geometry :)
2020-09-27T22:10:53 < Steffanx> And how did they expect you to do it PaulFertser?
2020-09-27T22:10:57 < Steffanx> or do you have no "answer sheet"?
2020-09-27T22:11:43 < PaulFertser> Steffanx: I think there were no answers, so you just look at the drawing and reason about it.
2020-09-27T22:11:49 < PaulFertser> Not sure I understand your question.
2020-09-27T22:11:49 < Steffanx> Because usually such exam is based on stuff learned before.
2020-09-27T22:12:04 < Steffanx> and then there is "the usual way" to answer it
2020-09-27T22:12:22 < Steffanx> because you cannot expects students to use magic algebra when they never had that.
2020-09-27T22:12:37 < qyx> speaking of algebra
2020-09-27T22:12:43 < qyx> any curve fitting guru here?
2020-09-27T22:12:51 < PaulFertser> I mentioned only generic stuff here. similar triangles and well-known parallelogramm features
2020-09-27T22:13:46 < mawk> my proof as I told you is incomplete
2020-09-27T22:13:47 < PaulFertser> Steffanx: what magic algebra? The equation for "x" ended up being trivial.
2020-09-27T22:13:48 < mawk> let me re-write it
2020-09-27T22:14:00 < mawk> try the question qyx 
2020-09-27T22:14:02 < Steffanx> lol PaulFertser, that's not what i mean.
2020-09-27T22:14:16 < mawk> I wrote my final year "paper" in maths school on some variant of curve fitting
2020-09-27T22:14:22 < qyx> I need to fit a curve to 3 points and find its max
2020-09-27T22:14:24 < mawk> but it was just pure stuff
2020-09-27T22:14:35 < qyx> I did learn it on uni
2020-09-27T22:14:37 < PaulFertser> qyx: what kind of curve?
2020-09-27T22:14:40 < qyx> but forgot
2020-09-27T22:14:59 < qyx> idk, it is a spectrogram/periodogrm, some say quadratic is enough
2020-09-27T22:15:11 < PaulFertser> Does it have to pass the points or just be close enough?
2020-09-27T22:15:14 < mawk> you want the quadratic to pass exactly through the points ?
2020-09-27T22:15:24 < qyx> findpeaks() apparently does the same
2020-09-27T22:15:37 < qyx> hm, does it matter?
2020-09-27T22:15:42 < qyx> probably close enough is enough
2020-09-27T22:16:05 < mawk> if the points are (x1; y1), (x2; y2), (x3; y3) your curve is f(x) = y1 (x-x2)(x-x3)/((x1-x2)(x1-x3)) + y2 (x-x1)(x-x3)/((x2-x1)(x2-x3)) + y3 (x-x1)(x-x2)/((x3-x1)(x3-x2))
2020-09-27T22:16:06 < qyx> because of noise and other things it won't be precise
2020-09-27T22:16:43 < qyx> uh
2020-09-27T22:16:58 < Steffanx> PaulFertser, this exam is obviously based on what the students should know. And usually it not even allowed (at least that sometimes happens in dutchland) to use knowledge to solve such issue you are not supposed to know (yet).
2020-09-27T22:17:08 < Steffanx> So there must be some "expected" way to solve it.
2020-09-27T22:17:17 < mawk> but you can have all kind of degenerate cases which will make the interpolated quadratic ugly
2020-09-27T22:17:23 < Steffanx> i was curious if you knew that way, but .. i see you do not :P
2020-09-27T22:17:26 < mawk> so maybe do least-squares variant with a quadratic
2020-09-27T22:17:37 < PaulFertser> Steffanx: both "my" and mawk's way require no special knowledge afaict.
2020-09-27T22:17:37 < qyx> interesting
2020-09-27T22:18:35 < PaulFertser> Steffanx: also, geometry can often be solved by different ways of similar complexity, so there doesn't need to be a preferred way.
2020-09-27T22:18:46 < Steffanx> And yet there usually is.
2020-09-27T22:20:18 < PaulFertser> One of my classmates liked to solve everything by adding lines "to make a square". The teacher didn't mind it when the method worked.
2020-09-27T22:21:01 < Steffanx> I liked to solve everything by using my TI84+, but ... :P
2020-09-27T22:21:09 < PaulFertser> Doesn't work for geometry
2020-09-27T22:21:22 < Steffanx> unless there happens to be an app for that
2020-09-27T22:21:32 < PaulFertser> Also, could your calc do symbolic calculations?
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2020-09-27T22:23:37 < Steffanx> nah not really, unless some app provided some basic stuff
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2020-09-27T22:26:58 < qyx> mawk: so if I want to find max of that, i just need to do derivative of the quadratic function and make it equal 0?
2020-09-27T22:27:06 < mawk> yes qyx 
2020-09-27T22:27:11 < mawk> -b/(2a)
2020-09-27T22:27:17 < mawk> for a quadratic ax²+bx+c
2020-09-27T22:27:19 < qyx> oh me dumb
2020-09-27T22:27:46 < qyx> yes
2020-09-27T22:29:02 < PaulFertser> Are you sure it'll be maximum and not minimum?
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2020-09-27T22:29:36 < mawk> your polynomial has coefficients a = y1/((x1-x2)(x1-x3)) + y2/((x2-x1)(x2-x3)) + y3/((x3-x1)(x3-x2)) and b = y1(x2+x3)/((x1-x2)(x1-x3)) + y2(x1+x3)/((x2-x1)(x2-x3)) + y3(x1+x2)/((x3-x1)(x3-x2))
2020-09-27T22:29:41 < mawk> if I did it correctly
2020-09-27T22:29:46 < mawk> that will depend on the sign of a
2020-09-27T22:30:01 < mawk> but there is no reason that the min/max will be between your three poins
2020-09-27T22:30:22 < PaulFertser> And the sign of a is not guaranteed to be -
2020-09-27T22:30:52 < PaulFertser> So you qyx can get a fitting curve that maxes at +\inf :)
2020-09-27T22:31:36 < PaulFertser> Right?
2020-09-27T22:35:21 < qyx> mawk: my max is between the three points
2020-09-27T22:35:33 < qyx> first I find a peak using ~some~ conditions
2020-09-27T22:35:44 < qyx> then I need to approximate its freq and value between FFT bins
2020-09-27T22:35:58 < qyx> so I get one bin before and two after or the other way around
2020-09-27T22:36:09 < qyx> fit a quadratic curve
2020-09-27T22:36:22 < qyx> and compute f
2020-09-27T22:36:57 < Cracki> parabola: return 0.5 * (y1 - y3) / (y3 - 2*y2 + y1)
2020-09-27T22:37:07 < Cracki> gaussian: return 0.5 * (ln(y1) - ln(y3)) / (ln(y1) - 2*ln(y2) + ln(y3))
2020-09-27T22:37:21 < qyx> I am trying to find a more appropriate way of doing this
2020-09-27T22:37:27 < qyx> Cracki: wheres that from
2020-09-27T22:37:34 < Cracki> my ass, a few years ago
2020-09-27T22:37:45 < Cracki> I needed it to find the "subpixel" peak in a specturm
2020-09-27T22:37:54 < Cracki> I'm sure I looked that shit up somewhere
2020-09-27T22:37:58 < Cracki> # A Comparison of Algorithms for Subpixel Peak Detection (1996), by R. B. Fisher , D. K. Naidu
2020-09-27T22:37:58 < qyx> yeah the same
2020-09-27T22:38:12 < Cracki> parabola stuff prolly wikipedia
2020-09-27T22:38:25 < qyx> may i try it and steal?
2020-09-27T22:38:39 < Cracki> it gives the offset, assuming y2 is at 0, y1 is -1, y3 is +1
2020-09-27T22:39:27 < Cracki> hippety hoppety property is imaginary
2020-09-27T22:40:18 < mawk> PaulFertser: https://maths.serveur.io/6YF5B2nT
2020-09-27T22:40:23 < Cracki> careful with the caussian stuff, they all need to be strictly positive for the logarithm
2020-09-27T22:41:06 < Cracki> you should generate a synthetic signal of known frequency, do your thing, then see which of those gives you a more accurate estimate
2020-09-27T22:41:06 < Steffanx> Why frenchies always do everything in french mawk?
2020-09-27T22:41:16 < mawk> if the max is between the peaks you can use that interpolation thing qyx 
2020-09-27T22:41:19 < Steffanx> mawk: i expected you to be more "international"
2020-09-27T22:41:35 < Cracki> if you hadn't fought the nazis, würden wir jetzt alle Deutsch sprechen
2020-09-27T22:41:38 < mawk> if you're sure the points are from a pre-existing quadratic
2020-09-27T22:41:47 < mawk> but otherwise it can go pretty wrong if the points are degenerat
2020-09-27T22:42:49 < PaulFertser> mawk: thank you! will read it later, looks much more understandable now.
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2020-09-27T22:53:25 < qyx> https://www.embeddedrelated.com/showarticle/855.php
2020-09-27T22:54:34 < Cracki> nice
2020-09-27T22:57:26 < Cracki> looks equivalent to whatever I have there for parabolas
2020-09-27T23:04:28 < qyx> yeah
2020-09-27T23:04:35 < qyx> another topic for night programming shift
2020-09-27T23:04:50 < qyx> how to calculate fft on a wrapping ring buffer
2020-09-27T23:09:37 < Cracki> you want a short-time fourier with overlapping windows?
2020-09-27T23:12:41 < qyx> exactly
2020-09-27T23:13:39 < Cracki> with weighting function, hamming/hann or sth?
2020-09-27T23:13:54 < qyx> thats the next step
2020-09-27T23:13:56 < qyx> but yes
2020-09-27T23:14:00 < Cracki> if with weighting function, you'd wanna copy the values over anyway so ring buffer makes no diff
2020-09-27T23:14:23 < Cracki> unless you have a fancy fft that does the weighting by itself, which I haven't seen
2020-09-27T23:14:32 < qyx> oh thats true
2020-09-27T23:15:35 < Cracki> some weighting functions, if you have 50% overlap, _may_ have some properties that save you some operations for the same value the second time, dunno
2020-09-27T23:15:44 < Cracki> eh, overoptimization
2020-09-27T23:16:03 < qyx> I need to tune the overlap, so meh
2020-09-27T23:16:19 < qyx> I'll probably just copy the values
2020-09-27T23:17:25 < Cracki> well "copy" when multiplying by weights
2020-09-27T23:17:51 < Cracki> with overlap you'd touch some values more than once so there's nothing better really
2020-09-27T23:18:24 < qyx> the other thing I was solving is if it makes any sense to decimate the input data or not
2020-09-27T23:19:27 < qyx> I can do fft at full sample rate without any significant issues
2020-09-27T23:19:43 < qyx> so I will probably leave out decimation and crop the spectrum instead
2020-09-27T23:19:46 < qyx> or keep it full
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2020-09-27T23:22:04 < Cracki> link to that reference I gave https://www.dropbox.com/s/iq27wjhkk06awge/A_Comparison_of_Algorithms_for_Subpixel_Peak_Detec.pdf?dl=0
2020-09-27T23:22:16 < Cracki> just googled it, researchgate result wasn't given
2020-09-27T23:22:30 < Cracki> still there tho
2020-09-27T23:24:17 < qyx> you mean this one https://www.researchgate.net/publication/2401027_A_Comparison_of_Algorithms_for_Subpixel_Peak_Detection
2020-09-27T23:24:41 < qyx> thanks
2020-09-27T23:24:58 < Cracki> ye
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2020-09-27T23:39:50 < mawk> tell me if you don't get something PaulFertser 
2020-09-27T23:39:53 < mawk> but normally it's easy
2020-09-27T23:40:09 < mawk> I did this method becaue I wasn't seeing anything else
2020-09-27T23:40:15 < mawk> so, just bruteforce analytic method
2020-09-27T23:41:53 < mawk> made a typo somewhere, a + turned into a -, but it has no consequence it's swallowed by a square
2020-09-27T23:42:59 < mawk> ah no sorry it's not a typo
2020-09-27T23:43:06 < PaulFertser> mawk: sorry, busy trying to make my old router doing DoT and then have to sleep. I'll read it tomorrow, thanks a lot.
2020-09-27T23:43:06  * mawk smarter than he thought
2020-09-27T23:43:13 < mawk> yes don't worry
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2020-09-27T23:47:06 < mawk> there are some steps I could have simplified
2020-09-27T23:47:16 < mawk> I could even get rid of all the trig functions
2020-09-27T23:47:52 < mawk> find a way to equate the two KH/tan(γ) expressions
2020-09-27T23:47:58 < mawk> shouldn't be toooo hard
2020-09-27T23:48:33 -!- c10ud [~c10ud@emesene/dictator/c10ud] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds]
2020-09-27T23:49:25 < mawk> hmm yes I see
2020-09-27T23:49:38 < mawk> so yeah what I did has a geometric interpretation
2020-09-27T23:51:08 < mawk> let's see
--- Day changed Mon Sep 28 2020
2020-09-28T00:16:28 < Steffanx> I should take math lessons from teacher mawk. When do we start?
2020-09-28T00:17:08 < Steffanx> In dutch so the mawk can learn dutch
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2020-09-28T00:19:11 < zyp> ei saa peitää
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2020-09-28T00:26:01 < Steffanx> two t's
2020-09-28T00:28:53 < mawk> when you want Steffanx 
2020-09-28T00:29:55 < Steffanx> *wanneer je wilt
2020-09-28T00:30:05 < Steffanx> or wil. both is correct
2020-09-28T00:30:55 < Steffanx> And Pas op! Drempels
2020-09-28T00:33:42 < mawk> what is drempels
2020-09-28T00:33:58 < tcth> I wanna know too
2020-09-28T00:34:25 < tcth> ah, I see. speed bumps
2020-09-28T00:34:59 < tcth> tell me something fun I can say to my gf
2020-09-28T00:35:11 < mawk> je bent mijn kankerhoer
2020-09-28T00:35:29 < tcth> that does not read like something nice
2020-09-28T00:35:43 < mawk> depends
2020-09-28T00:35:50 < mawk> it can sound naughty if you put the right intonation
2020-09-28T00:37:22 < Steffanx> Ik ben doof. tcth
2020-09-28T00:37:33 < tcth> c´mon guys
2020-09-28T00:37:55 < tcth> throw me a bone here
2020-09-28T00:38:27 < Steffanx> Say: Hottentottententententoonstelling.
2020-09-28T00:38:31 < Steffanx> Good luck.
2020-09-28T00:38:52 < tcth> you´re not being helpful
2020-09-28T00:39:34 < Steffanx> im pretty sure it will be very funny when you try to say it
2020-09-28T00:40:26 < tcth> what does it mean?
2020-09-28T00:40:50 < mawk> hottentot is some ethny
2020-09-28T00:41:20 < mawk> tentoonstelling is show or something
2020-09-28T00:41:47 < mawk> hottentot tenten tentoonstelling
2020-09-28T00:41:53 < mawk> exhibition of hottentot tents
2020-09-28T00:42:21 < Steffanx> It's kind of a made up word.
2020-09-28T00:42:34 < tcth> all of them are
2020-09-28T00:42:54 < Steffanx> but it something that does not exist.
2020-09-28T00:42:58 < qyx> it is easy
2020-09-28T00:43:01 < mawk> of course it exists
2020-09-28T00:43:10 < mawk> how would you describe a hottentot tent show otherwise
2020-09-28T00:44:38 < Steffanx> if you want to learn about dutch word plays you should watch all shows of "Herman Finkers" mawk
2020-09-28T00:44:54 < mawk> is it for children ?
2020-09-28T00:45:01 < Steffanx> noo
2020-09-28T00:45:02 < Steffanx> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BoBHukTJ1Qs
2020-09-28T00:45:53 < Steffanx> Good luck.
2020-09-28T00:49:38 < Steffanx> And more for you mawk https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FBOVYD3zUrk 
2020-09-28T00:49:56 < Steffanx> "Kalm aan en rap een beetje"
2020-09-28T00:50:17 < mawk> what is rap
2020-09-28T00:50:52 < Steffanx> in this case i would say "fast" as in "snel".
2020-09-28T00:55:05 < Steffanx> You should watch him with your gf tcth. Every proper dutch should like that guy.
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2020-09-28T01:41:47 < jly> hey
2020-09-28T01:41:54 < jly> did doctor blaxter die of it
2020-09-28T01:42:07 < zyp> yes
2020-09-28T01:42:25 < jly> hello mister 
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2020-09-28T02:11:28 < Steffanx> Go back to sleep jly ;)
2020-09-28T02:12:29 < Steffanx> Blaxter found himself a gf. He is in love now. Miracles happen, jly
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2020-09-28T02:49:11 < Laurenceb83> wtf
2020-09-28T02:49:19 -!- Laurenceb83 is now known as Laurenceb_
2020-09-28T02:49:30 < Laurenceb_> I cant login to muh lunix box
2020-09-28T02:49:35 < Laurenceb_> fucking lunix
2020-09-28T02:49:40 < Laurenceb_> >host not found
2020-09-28T02:50:08 < Laurenceb_> but its there on the router admin page
2020-09-28T02:50:13 < Laurenceb_> router firewalled?
2020-09-28T02:50:46 < Laurenceb_> this worked yesterday
2020-09-28T02:51:01 < Laurenceb_> the lunix syndrome: suddenly breaks for no apparent reason
2020-09-28T02:53:08 < Laurenceb_> oh i seee
2020-09-28T02:53:19 < Laurenceb_> muh isp updated the lunix firmware on the router
2020-09-28T03:15:18 < Laurenceb_> muh lunix
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2020-09-28T03:27:34 < kaki0> hello lurencer
2020-09-28T03:27:41 < kaki0> how is blib business?
2020-09-28T03:54:07 < kaki0> do you have money things figured out?
2020-09-28T03:54:35 < kaki0> 1M of startup moneys received?
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2020-09-28T06:52:12 < machinehum> Is the arm ethos processors out yet?
2020-09-28T06:52:23 < machinehum> Like can I BUY one o_O?
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2020-09-28T08:38:41 < qyx> Steffanx: what did he?
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2020-09-28T11:27:04 < Steffanx> No, not really qyx :P
2020-09-28T11:27:12 < Steffanx> He said "x gf"
2020-09-28T11:27:20 < Steffanx> one important character
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2020-09-28T12:20:09 < Steffanx> Welcome jly sir mate
2020-09-28T12:23:35 < Steffanx> Oh yay. Colleague of mine had to get the (in)famous test. Result: Inconclusive. The joy.
2020-09-28T12:25:14 < jly> wiw
2020-09-28T12:25:17 < jly> wow'
2020-09-28T12:25:30 < jly> blaxter lost his virginity 
2020-09-28T12:25:41 < jly> i was tipping maybe when 50
2020-09-28T12:25:59 < Steffanx> Did you enjoy it as well jly?
2020-09-28T12:32:27 < Steffanx> Is this why you are in jail jly?
2020-09-28T12:37:44 < jly> yes
2020-09-28T12:38:02 < jly> since when was i in jail anyway
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2020-09-28T12:57:55 < Steffanx> Isnt aussieland one big jail for fuck ups mr jly?
2020-09-28T12:58:25 < jly> well i can tell you my version of how australia started
2020-09-28T12:58:41 < jly> and patriotic australians would be upset
2020-09-28T13:00:20 < Steffanx> Im sure the only response to your story will be "SAFU"
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2020-09-28T13:11:54 < jly> no
2020-09-28T13:12:16 < jly> my theory is australia started with a ship full of child rapists getting exiled from the UK
2020-09-28T13:12:28 < jly> little did they know every brit liked RAPING CHILDREN
2020-09-28T13:12:42 < jly> so basically these paedophiles got to the island
2020-09-28T13:12:50 < jly> and started raping every aborigine 
2020-09-28T13:12:54 < jly> themselves
2020-09-28T13:13:02 < jly> having inbred babies that were all sent to tasmania
2020-09-28T13:13:39 < Steffanx> Are you imported after that or ... ?
2020-09-28T13:13:54 < Steffanx> but yeah: SAFU
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2020-09-28T13:29:04 < Cracki> Arm shouldn't have called cortex cortex, now they have to come up with silly names like "ethos" for things that do actual neural network processing
2020-09-28T13:31:16 < Cracki> nxp is the only "partner" for arm ethos I recognize as making chips and their last news is from Q1
2020-09-28T13:32:45 < Cracki> this has a "neural processing unit", doesn't look like arm ethos or else they'd say so https://www.nxp.com/products/processors-and-microcontrollers/arm-processors/i-mx-applications-processors/i-mx-8-processors/i-mx-8m-plus-arm-cortex-a53-machine-learning-vision-multimedia-and-industrial-iot:IMX8MPLUS
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2020-09-28T20:17:10 < Steffanx> Awh antto 
2020-09-28T20:27:50 < antto> i'll come over if i have a question.. as if i'll get an answer
2020-09-28T20:33:25 < qyx> I'll try to find a universal hole
2020-09-28T20:33:34 < qyx> *I am trying to
2020-09-28T20:33:35 < antto> a wot
2020-09-28T20:34:11 < antto> maybe i shouldn't ask
2020-09-28T20:34:15  * antto hides
2020-09-28T20:34:41 < qyx> a hole diameter which fits 1. industrial power connectors 2. industrial IO 3. high pin count IO 4. coax
2020-09-28T20:35:36 < qyx> and 5. stopper or how is the thing called
2020-09-28T20:35:44 < qyx> https://ce8dc832c.cloudimg.io/fit/640x480/n@220d4100f2ab93c8f21999d3709e5fdd6141ef7a/_cdn_/AB/FA/70/00/0/503738_1.jpg?mark_url=_tme-wrk_%2Ftme_new.png&mark_pos=center&mark_size=100pp
2020-09-28T20:35:48 < antto> ah, i'd make reference shapes for each pin type (of the ideal dimensions), put them on top, then construct a hole over them
2020-09-28T20:36:04 < qyx> 16mm dia looks good so far
2020-09-28T20:36:17 < antto> as a cheat, i could offset some of the pins to help the hole be smol-er
2020-09-28T20:36:18 < qyx> it fits M12 connectors and N coax
2020-09-28T20:36:21 < antto> and i might make it oval
2020-09-28T20:37:14 < antto> uh, is this for a PTH kind of hole?
2020-09-28T20:37:44 < qyx> no, hole in a panel
2020-09-28T20:38:03 < qyx> for a panel waterproof industrial connector
2020-09-28T20:38:14 < antto> oh, ignore my sh*t then
2020-09-28T20:38:15 < boddax> ip65
2020-09-28T20:38:58 < boddax> or 67 cant rem
2020-09-28T20:39:34 < boddax> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/IP_Code
2020-09-28T20:39:56 < antto> if unsure, take the average - ip68
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2020-09-28T21:09:12 < qyx> I'd like to have IP65 unmated, but meh
2020-09-28T21:09:24 < qyx> I can tolerate some end caps/covers
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2020-09-28T21:46:07 < zyp> IP65 unmated without caps? how?
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2020-09-28T21:47:06 < jadew> conformal coating
2020-09-28T21:47:10 < jadew> or empty enclosure
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2020-09-28T21:47:56 < zyp> conformal coating on the connectors?
2020-09-28T21:48:23 < zyp> as in to prevent getting water in the enclosure through the connector, not just prevent getting water in the connector?
2020-09-28T21:51:45 < qyx> wat
2020-09-28T21:51:53 < qyx> to prevent getting water inside
2020-09-28T21:52:01 < zyp> inside what?
2020-09-28T21:52:07 < qyx> of course if water gets into the connector it is a problem (electrically)
2020-09-28T21:52:11 < qyx> inside the enclosure
2020-09-28T21:52:42 < qyx> I mean, you know
2020-09-28T21:53:15 < zyp> that seems moot to me
2020-09-28T21:53:25 < ds2> there are connectors designed to resist water engress
2020-09-28T21:53:47 < qyx> whats mooot
2020-09-28T21:53:50 < ds2> complete with a silicone seal around it 
2020-09-28T21:54:11 < qyx> I want an enclosure with connectors, it is wired in dry conditions
2020-09-28T21:54:30 < qyx> I want it to operate in a wet conditions, it may fall into water, etc
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2020-09-28T21:54:39 < qyx> but I do not want to have caps
2020-09-28T21:54:55 < qyx> I don't need to mate/unmate connectors in wet
2020-09-28T21:55:21 < qyx> but if I leave some connectors unmated, it shoulnd not be a problem if the whole enclosure with such connector is submerged into water
2020-09-28T21:55:22 < zyp> if water in the connector is a problem by itself then it seems kinda moot whether it can also leak through the connector and get inside the enclosure
2020-09-28T21:55:34 < qyx> I didn't say that
2020-09-28T21:55:42 < qyx> water inside a connecror is not a problem
2020-09-28T21:55:58 < qyx> the thing will be designed in a wat it poses no problem from the electrical point of view
2020-09-28T21:56:13 < qyx> inside a connector = around contacts, etc
2020-09-28T21:56:21 < zyp> corrosion is a problem
2020-09-28T21:56:39 < boddax> aluminum
2020-09-28T21:57:14 < boddax> gold is good too
2020-09-28T21:58:14 < qyx> for example some M12 connectors are IP67 while unmated
2020-09-28T21:58:18 < zyp> one of my coworkers had one of our control boxes sitting on a beach or something to test how well it stood up to the elements, now I've got a controller board on my desk that's corroded as fuck
2020-09-28T21:58:21 < qyx> (eg. ALTW)
2020-09-28T21:59:04 < qyx> yeah it will corrode if you put 24V in the pins and keep it in water
2020-09-28T21:59:13 < zyp> not sure what went wrong, but that guy is the mechanical designer so it's his job to figure it out, not mine :p
2020-09-28T21:59:31 < zyp> it was not powered
2020-09-28T22:00:21 < qyx> once I put a spenge in an alu box
2020-09-28T22:00:28 < qyx> a conductive sponge, the black one
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2020-09-28T22:00:40 < qyx> and a pcb was sitting inside the box
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2020-09-28T22:00:55 < qyx> gently touching the sponge on the wrong place
2020-09-28T22:01:16 < qyx> few months later, the alu box was not alu anymore
2020-09-28T22:01:39 < qyx> it was covered in a few millimeter of something I would fear to touch
2020-09-28T22:01:47 < zyp> fun
2020-09-28T22:02:02 < zyp> our boxes are cast aluminum
2020-09-28T22:05:52 < kaki0> qyx: covered with organisms?
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2020-09-28T22:29:26 < qyx> re pcie
2020-09-28T22:29:36 < qyx> I have some protos with HASL
2020-09-28T22:29:40 < qyx> some with ENIG
2020-09-28T22:29:45 < qyx> no with hard gold yet
2020-09-28T22:29:55 < qyx> there are issues with them, both HASL and ENIG
2020-09-28T22:30:27 < qyx> ethernet sometimes doesn't work, it starts to work when you move the card out a bit and then back
2020-09-28T22:30:38 < qyx> power too
2020-09-28T22:36:24 < zyp> fun
2020-09-28T22:36:58 < qyx> no fun
2020-09-28T22:37:12 < Steffanx> big fun
2020-09-28T22:37:21 < qyx> I hope I will not have to replace the pcie connectors
2020-09-28T22:46:34 < kaki0> hmm
2020-09-28T22:46:38 < kaki0> remember ISA cards?
2020-09-28T22:46:40 < Cracki> card thick enough to give socket fingers some contact force?
2020-09-28T22:46:45 < Cracki> corrosion?
2020-09-28T22:47:01 < Cracki> dust on the fingers?
2020-09-28T22:47:31 < zyp> did you try blowing on it?
2020-09-28T22:47:36 < Cracki> ^
2020-09-28T22:47:42 < qyx> wat
2020-09-28T22:47:48 < qyx> blowing while inserted or what
2020-09-28T22:47:50 < Cracki> try it, it pleases the gods
2020-09-28T22:47:54 < Cracki> while outside
2020-09-28T22:48:05 < Cracki> blow on the card and the socket
2020-09-28T22:48:11 < qyx> if I pull it outside and insert back, it works
2020-09-28T22:48:18 < qyx> without blowing
2020-09-28T22:48:22 < kaki0> do pci-e connectors have sufficient contact forces to even work without gold?
2020-09-28T22:48:51 < qyx> so probably some corrosion on contacts or what
2020-09-28T22:49:01 < qyx> the same happens with my USB SD reader
2020-09-28T22:49:08 < Cracki> my bet is on dust/debris
2020-09-28T22:49:15 < qyx> I have to insert the card ~10 times on average to make it working
2020-09-28T22:49:24 < Steffanx> lol, buy a new one.
2020-09-28T22:49:53 < Cracki> random internet find: The PCI express specifications require 0.7um gold over 1.2um nickel (PCI express card electromechanical specification rev 2.0, page 78, below figure 5-5)
2020-09-28T22:50:06 < PaulFertser> https://www.mentalfloss.com/article/12589/did-blowing-nintendo-cartridges-really-help
2020-09-28T22:50:30 < kaki0> Cracki: ofc it requires it but does it tell why?
2020-09-28T22:50:35 < Cracki> https://www.mentalfloss.com/article/12589/did-blowing-player-one-really-make-you-win
2020-09-28T22:50:39 < Cracki> no clue
2020-09-28T22:51:40 < kaki0> my bet is that contact forces are very low
2020-09-28T22:51:51 < Ultrasauce> stupid question....is the pcb / edge connector the right thickness?
2020-09-28T22:53:48 < Cracki> ah so blowing on the contacts does nothing except add moisture that causes corrosion, and merely fucking the socket helps
2020-09-28T23:11:01 < qyx> yes, it behaves like that
2020-09-28T23:11:07 < qyx> Ultrasauce: yeah
2020-09-28T23:22:35 < kaki0> qyx: try silicone grease
2020-09-28T23:22:48 < kaki0> especially formula made for contacts
2020-09-28T23:23:51 < kaki0> it protects the surface from air
2020-09-28T23:24:21 < kaki0> Steffanx: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=waTzBd5lTHQ musics
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2020-09-28T23:32:38 < Steffanx> uh what kaki0?
2020-09-28T23:32:49 < kaki0> yes
2020-09-28T23:33:58 < Steffanx> Its fine till the people start to sing.
2020-09-28T23:34:05 < Steffanx> i'd rather listen to https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Zbl-66Usv9s then
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2020-09-28T23:35:43 < kaki0> Steffanx: it's the effect
2020-09-28T23:35:49 < kaki0> loud singing
2020-09-28T23:36:32 < kaki0> it's like constant explosion in ears
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2020-09-28T23:36:51 < Steffanx> it annoys me
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2020-09-28T23:41:49 < Steffanx> Im not sure how to describe it mr kaki0. Its too fast, too "random".
2020-09-28T23:42:01 < kaki0> I dont rememer seeing this movie
2020-09-28T23:42:03 < Steffanx> (its probably not random at all, but .. to me it is)
2020-09-28T23:42:08 < Steffanx> its a nice movie
2020-09-28T23:42:35 < Steffanx> The first comment isnt entirely incorrect kaki0 ;)
2020-09-28T23:42:51 < Steffanx> or last not sure what the order is
2020-09-28T23:46:42 < kaki0> I don't know what you are rambling about
2020-09-28T23:47:44 < kaki0> I connected DAC
2020-09-28T23:47:54 < kaki0> so crisp
2020-09-28T23:48:30 < kaki0> qyx: Dow Corning DC4 or something like that?
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2020-09-28T23:57:14 < karlp> qyx: thranks for doing the hasl/enig only pcie tests for me :)
2020-09-28T23:57:27 < karlp> qyx: any idea what your insertion counts were?
2020-09-28T23:58:02 < qyx> >10, <100
2020-09-28T23:58:17 < karlp> the insertion counts are quite low by spec too remember
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2020-09-28T23:58:38 < karlp> I suspect the contacts, inttended for hard gold jsut gouge out tthe pads.
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--- Day changed Tue Sep 29 2020
2020-09-29T00:03:45 < karlp> the amphenol one I've got is only rated for "Durability rating: 50 cycles min."
2020-09-29T00:09:10 < qyx> idk what part is the problem acrtually
2020-09-29T00:09:20 < qyx> if hasl/enig or the connector itself
2020-09-29T00:11:47 < karlp> mini card shit is 50cycles too.
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2020-09-29T00:24:26 < zyp> qyx, does it happen in all slots?
2020-09-29T00:26:32 < qyx> basically I am using two, the other one has only a solar charger inserted which I hardly ever remove
2020-09-29T00:26:44 < qyx> so idk
2020-09-29T00:26:52 < qyx> there are so many variables
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2020-09-29T13:09:53 < mawk> Steffanx = german finkers
2020-09-29T13:09:57 < mawk> herman
2020-09-29T13:10:02 < mawk> not german
2020-09-29T13:10:09 < mawk> german finkers sounds better though
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2020-09-29T13:30:31 < Steffanx> No, Herman.
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2020-09-29T13:47:16 < Cracki> lügenforecast. they promised sunshine and deliver chemtrails
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2020-09-29T16:16:15 < jpa-> second wave is here and no chats on ##covid32, what is this?
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2020-09-29T16:25:21 < mawk> all sick
2020-09-29T16:27:17 < jpa-> not jadew 
2020-09-29T16:27:28 < jpa-> i bet he still has more than 100 cans of pea soup on the wall
2020-09-29T16:33:53 -!- qyx [~qyx@gw2.krtko.org] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds]
2020-09-29T16:34:35 < mawk> we are looking for a rtos
2020-09-29T16:34:44 < mawk> company selected "zephyr" behind my back
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2020-09-29T16:51:55 < karlp> enjoy.
2020-09-29T16:52:10 < karlp> hope you're using hardware that zephyr already works with
2020-09-29T16:55:29 < Steffanx> jadew died from covid19 already jpa- 
2020-09-29T16:55:51 < Steffanx> 2nd wave is here too and mawk is to blame
2020-09-29T16:56:37 < englishman> bars are closed here now
2020-09-29T16:56:44 < englishman> and no visitors in your home
2020-09-29T16:56:52 < englishman> but schools are open
2020-09-29T16:58:07 < karlp> bars opened again yesterday here, we're in third round.
2020-09-29T16:59:57 < englishman> gyms are open, libraries closed
2020-09-29T17:03:23 < karlp> it's exhausting.
2020-09-29T17:03:33 < karlp> libraries closed? that doesn't make any sense.
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2020-09-29T17:03:58 < karlp> but that's ok, here we closed "bars" but not "restaraunts" which included various bars that happen to also sell burgers.
2020-09-29T17:04:17 < karlp> and we're talking about brining in noise limits, as it's drunken loudness causing hte spray,
2020-09-29T17:04:26 < karlp> but we're still doing karaoke....
2020-09-29T17:07:55 < qyx> we survived the first wave with ~140/day max
2020-09-29T17:07:58 < qyx> now we are at 500
2020-09-29T17:08:27 < qyx> because full anti covid anarchism among people
2020-09-29T17:09:08 < qyx> like it is just a bat flu, it is not dangerous, it is not even a flu, nobody dies of it, they died of something other, etc.
2020-09-29T17:10:54 < karlp> we arrested four tourists over the weekend, broke the arrival quarantine, and broke it so badly they were cuaght when the police were called to their raging drunkeness in town
2020-09-29T17:12:27 < qyx> heh
2020-09-29T17:13:48 < karlp> they're not doing some extra checks that they naiively didn't think they needed to do, like, "does your return ticket actual include time for the arrival quarantine? or were you never actually planning on following the rules anyway...."
2020-09-29T17:13:58 < karlp> they're _now_ doing some extra checks
2020-09-29T17:35:00 < mawk> why are you all waiting at traffic light like sheep Steffanx ?
2020-09-29T17:35:02 < mawk> even in the absence of cars
2020-09-29T17:35:04 < mawk> people look weird at me when I cross anyway, and I'm always the only one doing it
2020-09-29T17:35:06 < mawk> in Germany it's worse, the only time I tried I got scolded by an old lady
2020-09-29T17:35:10 < mawk> in France if I don't cross when there are no cars people will look at me
2020-09-29T17:39:43 < mawk> abiding by petty laws is a sign of weakness
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2020-09-29T17:42:54 < PaulFertser> mawk: sometimes jaywalking is dangerous, especially on unfamiliar intersections where traffic can come from a direction you do not expect.
2020-09-29T17:42:54 < PaulFertser> (personal experience)
2020-09-29T17:43:01 < mawk> in germany it was on a narrow one way-street where one car passes every hour
2020-09-29T17:43:41 < PaulFertser> Also in some situations a car can be reversing when you do not expect it to.
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2020-09-29T17:44:39 < mawk> yeah when it's not clear I don't do it
2020-09-29T17:44:45 < mawk> but my time is precious
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2020-09-29T17:50:52 < mawk> they have support for our L1 chip karlp 
2020-09-29T17:50:57 < mawk> but they have no PM code
2020-09-29T17:51:22 < mawk> no support for deep sleep, but our application needs 5 years on battery so we need deepsleep one way or another
2020-09-29T17:51:44 < mawk> or they have PM code but marked as experimental
2020-09-29T17:51:53 < Steffanx> Because you will get a fine mawk
2020-09-29T17:51:59 < mawk> by who?
2020-09-29T17:52:03 < Steffanx> Sooner or later
2020-09-29T17:52:06 < PaulFertser> The pigs
2020-09-29T17:52:06 < Steffanx> The cops?
2020-09-29T17:52:07 < mawk> never
2020-09-29T17:52:16 < Steffanx> Good luck.
2020-09-29T17:52:25 < mawk> I just have to say I'm morrocan and they leave me alone
2020-09-29T17:52:36 < Steffanx> Just dont be that asshole
2020-09-29T17:52:38 < PaulFertser> Aren't a.c.a.b. in Steffanx-land?
2020-09-29T17:52:40 < mawk> lol
2020-09-29T17:52:50 < mawk> not in delft probably
2020-09-29T17:52:53 < mawk> nothing happens
2020-09-29T17:53:02 < mawk> except the drive by shootings in front of coffeeshops
2020-09-29T17:53:15 < mawk> also the guy that shot a shotgun on his neighbor near my apartment
2020-09-29T17:56:01 < Steffanx> I never really had to deal with cops PaulFertser 
2020-09-29T17:56:31 < mawk> because you're morrocan
2020-09-29T17:56:33 < mawk> QED
2020-09-29T17:56:41 < PaulFertser> Steffanx: my guess would be they're mostly better than russian cops. But here it's almost impossible to get a fine for jaywalking.
2020-09-29T17:57:32 < mawk> I've never heard of the existence of a fine for jaywalking in france anyway
2020-09-29T17:57:41 < mawk> I think the law even explicitly allows it
2020-09-29T17:57:49 < mawk> if you cross the street at right angle
2020-09-29T17:57:58 < mawk> cars have to stop, even if you're not on a crosswalk
2020-09-29T17:59:25 < Steffanx> Good luck then mawk
2020-09-29T17:59:44 < qyx> here you are allowed to cross at right angle
2020-09-29T17:59:49 < Steffanx> Just dont be one of those always in a hurry guys
2020-09-29T17:59:51 < qyx> cars have to stop if there is anyone on the street
2020-09-29T17:59:58 < qyx> bo you cannot make the cars stop
2020-09-29T18:00:15 < qyx> eg. by jumping in front of a car
2020-09-29T18:00:24 < qyx> s/bo/but
2020-09-29T18:01:09 < qyx> it is the same with busses leaving a stop
2020-09-29T18:01:20 < qyx> you have to slow down to let them leave the stop
2020-09-29T18:01:33 < PaulFertser> Here you can cross the road in certain without explicit pedestrian path but you're supposed to yield to the cars. Unless it's a "living zone" where the cars yield. 
2020-09-29T18:01:48 < qyx> but they cannot leave while endangering the others by forcing stopping of the cars
2020-09-29T18:02:30 < qyx> yield is the right word probably
2020-09-29T18:03:05 < PaulFertser> But that's not jaywalking if it's legal.
2020-09-29T18:03:39 < mawk> Пол фертсер
2020-09-29T18:04:37 < qyx> yes but not on a crossing with semaphores
2020-09-29T18:04:52 < mawk> it's funny how many of these letters were stolen from greek
2020-09-29T18:05:45 < qyx> offtopic, anyone used S-coded M12 for power? zyp?
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2020-09-29T18:07:54 < mawk> is that a weapon
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2020-09-29T18:08:32 < karlp> might as wel be, big ass metal screw connectorssss
2020-09-29T18:08:52 < karlp> (it's not so big really)
2020-09-29T18:09:52 < karlp> what's wrong with m8?
2020-09-29T18:10:24 < Steffanx> anyway mawk. its already common knownledge French people are arseholes ;)
2020-09-29T18:10:32 < Steffanx> *knowledge
2020-09-29T18:10:33 < mawk> Steffanx :(
2020-09-29T18:10:41 < mawk> totally untrue
2020-09-29T18:10:42 < Steffanx> Frogs.
2020-09-29T18:10:46 < mawk> I'm the nicest guy around
2020-09-29T18:11:05 < Steffanx> "wij van wc-eend adviseren wc-eend" 
2020-09-29T18:11:18 < mawk> I know wc-eend
2020-09-29T18:11:23 < mawk> because I bought some recently
2020-09-29T18:11:37 < Steffanx> Yes, and the people from wc-eend recommend wc-eend.
2020-09-29T18:11:46 < PaulFertser> mawk: yeah, but they looked funnier before https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Archive-ugent-be-973E9242-B062-11E1-9EF1-99BDAAF23FF7_DS-375_(cropped).jpg
2020-09-29T18:12:19 < mawk> that looks like gothic cyrillic or something
2020-09-29T18:13:39 < Steffanx> gibberish
2020-09-29T18:25:52 < mawk> S = 1 + 2 + 3 + … = 1 + (2 + 3 + 4) + (5 + 6 + 7) + … = 1 + 9 + 18 + 27 + … = 1 + 9(1 + 2 + 3 + …) = 1 + 9S
2020-09-29T18:25:56 < mawk> so S = -1/8
2020-09-29T18:25:59 < mawk> QED
2020-09-29T18:32:21 < karlp> the sum of all positive integers is -1/8?
2020-09-29T18:34:44 < mawk> yes
2020-09-29T18:34:52 < mawk> you thought it was -1/12 but you were wrong
2020-09-29T18:34:57 < mawk> it's -1/8
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2020-09-29T18:39:47 < mawk> and 1-1+1-1+1-1+1-1+… = 1/2
2020-09-29T18:42:40 < mawk> Steffanx drinkt wc-eend voor ontbijt
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2020-09-29T18:59:09 < karlp> I'm not sure x = 1 + 9*infinite implies that x is finite and negative, but ok...
2020-09-29T19:00:20 < mawk> yes it's a joke
2020-09-29T19:00:32 < mawk> but actually karlp it's not totally false that 1+2+3+... = -1/12
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2020-09-29T19:01:07 < mawk> 1+2+3+... is part of a family of sums of the form 1 + 1/2^z + 1/3^z + 1/4^z + 1/5^z + ...
2020-09-29T19:01:14 < mawk> denoted ζ(z)
2020-09-29T19:01:33 < mawk> ζ(2) is the famous Bâles problem, solved by Euler to be π²/6
2020-09-29T19:01:52 < mawk> and actually ζ(-1) could be thought of as 1+2+3+... 
2020-09-29T19:01:59 < mawk> and as it turns out, ζ(-1) = -1/12
2020-09-29T19:02:10 < karlp> are you looking for ##mathweebs?
2020-09-29T19:02:27 < mawk> I'm increasing your culture to make you a better man
2020-09-29T19:02:46 < mawk> the modern man is a mathematical man
2020-09-29T19:06:30 < karlp> https://giphy.com/gifs/Fml0fgAxVx1eM/html5
2020-09-29T19:08:03 < mawk> not my type
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2020-09-29T19:54:56 < mawk> I found an easier way to compute your diagnostika 2019 PaulFertser , you complete the KM segment a bit further to have a triangle 
2020-09-29T19:55:03 < mawk> which is isocele
2020-09-29T19:57:06 < mawk> call E the new point which formally is the intersection of (KM) and (AD), so AKE is a isocele triangle, so AH = AE/2, and AE = AD + DE, we know AD it's 6+5, and we know DE = KC = 5, so overall x = (11+5)/2 = 8
2020-09-29T19:57:08 < mawk> very simple
2020-09-29T19:57:45 < mawk> the "hardest" part is DE = KC, but it's true because KCED is a параллелограмма
2020-09-29T20:05:26 < qyx> karlp: I am not comparing m8/m12
2020-09-29T20:05:47 < qyx> I decided to use m12, but theres a question if S-coded is any good compared to classic A-coded
2020-09-29T20:06:13 < qyx> it is 600 something something V, 12A vs. 4A
2020-09-29T20:06:41 < qyx> the downside is S coded are nearly unobtainable
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2020-09-29T20:09:22 < qyx> hm https://www.connectortips.com/coding-mean-m12-connectors/
2020-09-29T20:09:30 < qyx> so T-coded is for DC power
2020-09-29T20:12:47 < englishman> karlp: karaoke was banned here a month ago. a single dive bar had 130 infections and 2 deaths lol
2020-09-29T20:13:12 < qyx> well done
2020-09-29T20:13:38 < karlp> yeah, our most recent wave is form two french tourists who broke quarantine, went to a bar that had karaoke.
2020-09-29T20:13:48 < englishman> I've never done karaoke but I didn't know you were supposed to shove the microphone down your throat
2020-09-29T20:14:02 < karlp> it's the screaming yelling into the mic and spraying the crowd
2020-09-29T20:14:16 < qyx> we had a bus of pensioners returning from croatia..
2020-09-29T20:15:09 < qyx> apparently they were waiting for borders to be opened again to go for a covid trip
2020-09-29T20:16:12 < englishman> gonna get my hands on one of those new swir cqd cameras
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2020-09-29T20:29:22 < qyx> so blue is M, brown is apparently L+, white and black?
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2020-09-29T21:01:03 < Steffanx> ReadError_:  ping
2020-09-29T21:01:19 < Steffanx> Did they find his body yet?
2020-09-29T21:01:27 < antto> wut body?
2020-09-29T21:01:38 < antto> who's body?
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2020-09-29T21:05:22 < upgrdman> altium pros: can a schematic symbol be mapped to two BoM items? for example: a typical glass fuse holder is sold as 2 individual pieces, but the schematic symbol and footprint would usually be drawn as one component.
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2020-09-29T21:17:23 < zyp> I'm not aware of that feature existing, but it'd also be useful for stuff like a combination of connectors to fit a module or whatever
2020-09-29T21:19:43 < zyp> the problem having it all in one footprint like that is that you only get one set of P&P coordinates though
2020-09-29T21:25:15 < qyx> who was trying to tame that zephyr thing, was it karlp?
2020-09-29T21:26:22 < Steffanx> he mentioned it a few times.
2020-09-29T21:29:58 < qyx> great picture finally https://i.imgur.com/N2T7Vhx.png
2020-09-29T21:31:53 < Lux> i just played around with zephyr the last week
2020-09-29T21:32:13 < Lux> i guess if you do something that's in their samples it's pretty easy to use
2020-09-29T21:32:41 < qyx> and if not? did you try porting it to a new hardware
2020-09-29T21:32:48 < qyx> or defining a custom app?
2020-09-29T21:32:49 < Lux> and close to hardware stuff is definetly more work there in comparison to freertos on cube
2020-09-29T21:32:53 < qyx> is it much hassle?
2020-09-29T21:33:21 < Lux> i just did an example with uart on an stm32f4
2020-09-29T21:34:01 < Lux> the good thing is lots of hardware is allready supported
2020-09-29T21:34:17 < Lux> i guess you can run it on pretty much any stm32 with low effort
2020-09-29T21:35:07 < qyx> I hoped it could manage higher level stuff like a pretty CLI, bootloader, runtime loadable apps, python scripts, etc.
2020-09-29T21:35:17 < Lux> it's very much like linux with device tree files, iirc they even are mostly compatible
2020-09-29T21:35:51 < qyx> and your overall feeling? has the project enough momentum?
2020-09-29T21:36:04 < qyx> I did see many contributors and companies on their web
2020-09-29T21:36:45 < Lux> hard to say... at least there are no big projects using it
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2020-09-29T21:37:11 < Lux> they definetly got lots of support for networking etc
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2020-09-29T21:38:24 < Lux> qyx: just try it out, the getting started tutorial is straight forward and they have tons of demos to try
2020-09-29T21:39:14 < Lux> most of the st eval boards are also supported
2020-09-29T21:39:29 < qyx> k, I'll give it a go then
2020-09-29T21:39:34 < qyx> thanks
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2020-09-29T21:41:16 < Steffanx> i recall karlp had some troubles with it with some custom board.
2020-09-29T21:41:21 < Steffanx> demos are great, until you have to port it
2020-09-29T21:41:38 < Lux> yeah, can agree with that
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2020-09-29T21:42:41 < Cracki> mawk, old ladies stand at the crossing. you need to cross enough distance before the crossing so they'd have to yell, and they tend to not do that
2020-09-29T21:42:57 < Cracki> they are also more likely to yell if little children are present
2020-09-29T21:46:07 < Steffanx> its just very simple in dutchland. when the light is red you fucking wait
2020-09-29T21:46:39 < Steffanx> nothing hard about it
2020-09-29T21:48:47 < Steffanx> unless the light is broken
2020-09-29T21:53:55 < qyx> so after an hour I cannot say which color is which signal in T-coded M12
2020-09-29T21:54:12 < Cracki> at 4 am when nobody is about, not even rats, you would cross a red light
2020-09-29T21:54:26 < Cracki> do they specify color coded wires?
2020-09-29T21:55:16 < qyx> yes, S-coded AC is 3P+PE (3xBK + YEGN) which is quite obvious
2020-09-29T21:55:27 < qyx> not so obvious for single phase
2020-09-29T21:55:43 < Cracki> I find tables with black, blue, white, brown
2020-09-29T21:55:51 < qyx> T-coded 63V DC only specifies pinout for BK, BU, WH, BN
2020-09-29T21:55:52 < Cracki> assignment looks inconsistent tho
2020-09-29T21:55:52 < qyx> yeah
2020-09-29T21:56:08 < qyx> but which one is L1 and M
2020-09-29T21:56:11 < Steffanx> or maybe then Cracki
2020-09-29T21:56:17 < qyx> I woul say BN and BU, but wtf
2020-09-29T21:56:31 < Cracki> I find a bunch of "fleconn-china.com" pics
2020-09-29T21:56:52 < qyx> maybe I could try to find an actual power supply with T-coded outputs and see
2020-09-29T21:57:01 < Cracki> call up phoenix contact
2020-09-29T21:57:06 < Cracki> ahem, contact phoenix contact
2020-09-29T21:58:12 < Cracki> wikipedia says M12 specs are IEC 61076-2-101. I'm sure they cost something, so it's likely someone has leaked those
2020-09-29T21:59:20 < qyx> As a result, a separate standard was recently issued the IEC 61076-2-111 [3], which defines
2020-09-29T21:59:23 < qyx> M12 power connectors.
2020-09-29T21:59:26 < qyx> This standard includes M12 S, L, K and T power coding.
2020-09-29T22:00:00 < Cracki> heh
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2020-09-29T22:04:57 < Cracki> if you can trust a picture on pinterest that originated from china, t-coded M12 should be 1234 brown white blue black
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2020-09-29T22:05:07 < Cracki> this furry shop agrees: https://shop.murrelektronik.com/en/Connection-Technology/With-open-ended-wires/Power/M12-Power-T-coded-male-0-with-cable-7000-P7201-P070750.html
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2020-09-29T22:06:43 < qyx> Provides up to two DC power circuits (2 x V- / 2 x V+) in a blind-mate interface
2020-09-29T22:06:44 < qyx> closer
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2020-09-29T22:08:47 < Cracki> L-coded pictures suggest PE on the last pin, 1 .. n-1 are whatever
2020-09-29T22:09:01 < Cracki> but those are 5-leaf clovers
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2020-09-29T22:14:07 < Cracki> ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
2020-09-29T22:16:33 < qyx> woohoo https://encrypted-tbn0.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn%3AANd9GcSZ3jvo49aSa0waKdm6uhrjG_uy7V1CW92X6w&usqp=CAU
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2020-09-29T22:17:11 < qyx> colors probably match for both L and T
2020-09-29T22:22:03 < qyx> https://comtrol.com/wp-content/uploads/Power-Cable-L-Coded-M12-Female-to-Bare-Wires-Spec-Table.png
2020-09-29T22:27:46 < zyp> I think we're using T
2020-09-29T22:27:56 < zyp> and fuckers used a nonstandard pinout for it
2020-09-29T22:28:20 < zyp> GND on white/brown, +48V on blue/black
2020-09-29T22:28:25 < zyp> or something like that
2020-09-29T22:29:49 < zyp> hadn't used M12 before so I didn't think to check whether there were a standard power pinout when I did schematic review
2020-09-29T22:48:11 < qyx> so we can agree with the interwebs that brown/black is V+ and blue/white is V-
2020-09-29T22:48:56 < zyp> sounds about right, I think that's what I found other equipment were using
2020-09-29T22:49:17 < zyp> not that it matters because we're not really planning to combine our shit with that stuff, but still
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2020-09-29T23:13:30 < fluiD> I'm getting corruption on the text in my SWV that I don't understand.
2020-09-29T23:13:48 < fluiD> I have stripped most of my code out and with just the bare essentials I'm still getting corrupted text.
2020-09-29T23:14:08 < zyp> how does it corrupt?
2020-09-29T23:14:55 < fluiD> It seems to sometimes abort a line of text and start the next one without finishing the first.
2020-09-29T23:16:02 < zyp> so you're just losing the end of lines? and always the whole remaining line?
2020-09-29T23:16:29 < fluiD> https://justpaste.it/765bk
2020-09-29T23:16:35 < fluiD> yes
2020-09-29T23:16:58 < fluiD> I removed a bunch of the full lines from that paste, it's less frequent than that.
2020-09-29T23:17:10 < zyp> that's interesting
2020-09-29T23:17:38 < zyp> what are you using to output the text and what are you using to receive it?
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2020-09-29T23:18:28 < fluiD> Here's the code snippet. https://ctxt.io/2/AAAgvlFcEg
2020-09-29T23:18:40 < fluiD> I'm using the SWV ITM Data Console built in to STM32CubeIDE to view it
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2020-09-29T23:25:24 < zyp> okay, I don't know the tools, but I'm gonna bet that the receiver is sometimes receiving a null byte, and then it got something combining characters into a string buffer instead of handling them one by one
2020-09-29T23:25:29 < fluiD> I thought it might be going too fast so I cut the CPU speed in half but the problem remains.
2020-09-29T23:25:48 < bvernoux> fluiD, you shall init the SWO pin too
2020-09-29T23:25:55 < zyp> and when you get a null byte in the middle of the buffer, it gets misinterpreted as a terminator which dros the rest of the buffer
2020-09-29T23:25:55 < bvernoux> usually PB3
2020-09-29T23:26:04 < zyp> bvernoux, debugger is responsible for that, not firmware
2020-09-29T23:26:17 < bvernoux> zyp, no it does not work ;)
2020-09-29T23:26:39 < zyp> obviously it works most of the time
2020-09-29T23:26:40 < bvernoux> the best is to add a check to change the PB3 pin to SWO if DEBUG mode is enabled
2020-09-29T23:27:01 < bvernoux> anyway SWO is quite slow with STM32CubeIDE limited to 2MHz is not very interesting ...
2020-09-29T23:27:19 < zyp> also, doesn't it default to SWO?
2020-09-29T23:27:26 < bvernoux> I hope they will upgrade the STM32CubeIDE to support up to 15MHz
2020-09-29T23:27:36 < bvernoux> zyp, no it is by default input
2020-09-29T23:27:43 < zyp> bullshit
2020-09-29T23:27:46 < bvernoux> zyp, at least on STM32F405...
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2020-09-29T23:28:17 < zyp> SWO is combined with JTDO, and on anything but M0, JTAG is available by default
2020-09-29T23:28:21 < fluiD> I don't think not having the pin enabled would cause it to drop lines of text
2020-09-29T23:28:21 < bvernoux> maybe it is also because of my ChibiOS init I have not checked anyway I prefer to explicitely enable it in code if the code is built with debug flags
2020-09-29T23:28:38 < zyp> JTDO/SWO is the same AF
2020-09-29T23:29:05 < upgrdman> wtf would a film cap only be dc rated and not ac/dc? https://industrial.panasonic.com/ww/products/capacitors/film-capacitors/film-cap-electroequip/models/ECQE2104KF
2020-09-29T23:29:10 < bvernoux> fluiD, if not enabled it just do not output anything
2020-09-29T23:29:10 < zyp> fluiD, it wouldn't, it'd prevent anything from working at all
2020-09-29T23:29:34 < fluiD> ok, so we can ignore that for now
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2020-09-29T23:29:51 < bvernoux> fluiD, anyway you have probably noise or something if you are using a very long wire connected to SWO ...
2020-09-29T23:30:13 < zyp> yeah
2020-09-29T23:30:15 < bvernoux> fluiD, SWO is very poor as all is done on PC side ;)
2020-09-29T23:30:22 < bvernoux> it is like UART done on PC ;)
2020-09-29T23:30:37 < bvernoux> and STM32CUbeIDE does not help as it is slow Java running in background
2020-09-29T23:30:44 < zyp> noise resulting in null bytes, then bad handling of the null bytes on the receiver side resulting in dropping the rest of the buffer
2020-09-29T23:30:44 < fluiD> Wires aren't terribly long but maybe 7"
2020-09-29T23:30:46 < bvernoux> maybe it is why they have limited to max 2MHz
2020-09-29T23:30:56 < bvernoux> you can try slower SWO
2020-09-29T23:31:31 < bvernoux> or maybe you have set invalid speed for the MCU
2020-09-29T23:31:40 < zyp> I suggest trying different software to receive the SWO data
2020-09-29T23:31:43 < bvernoux> as SWO depend on MCU speed configured in STM32CubeIDE
2020-09-29T23:32:02 < bvernoux> on my side I'm using also STLINK-V3SET
2020-09-29T23:32:03 < fluiD> dropped from 2000 khz to 500 khz, still getting corruption
2020-09-29T23:32:08 < bvernoux> which is USB 2.0 HS debugger 
2020-09-29T23:32:16 < bvernoux> what is your debugger ?
2020-09-29T23:32:39 < fluiD> stlink v2
2020-09-29T23:32:46 < bvernoux> I can confirm SWO is clearly far from perfection with STM32CubeIDE and some byte are lost sometimes
2020-09-29T23:32:57 < fluiD> 25khz corrupts as well
2020-09-29T23:33:02 < bvernoux> a very easy test is to blink a led each 500ms and trace that in a variable you will see ;)
2020-09-29T23:33:17 < bvernoux> you display the graph you will see sometimes a data is dropped
2020-09-29T23:33:35 < bvernoux> fluiD, check if you have not some big resistors or capacitor on the PB3
2020-09-29T23:33:54 < bvernoux> fluiD, which will filter the signal ...
2020-09-29T23:34:02 < fluiD> nope nothing like that
2020-09-29T23:34:02 < bvernoux> you can check PB3 with oscilloscope too
2020-09-29T23:34:17 < bvernoux> it is the best to understand if the issue is on PC or your board/debugger
2020-09-29T23:34:28 < karlp> bvernoux: shut up
2020-09-29T23:34:45 < bvernoux> karlp, what is your problem ?
2020-09-29T23:35:18 < zyp> bvernoux, you're not being helpful
2020-09-29T23:35:33 < bvernoux> it is not helpful to check with an oscilloscope ?
2020-09-29T23:35:38 < bvernoux> you really suxx guys
2020-09-29T23:35:51 < karlp> no, your declarations of what is and isn't are wildly unhelpful.
2020-09-29T23:35:51 < zyp> not from the presented symptoms, no
2020-09-29T23:35:53 < bvernoux> I imagine how you are debugging MCU stuff ...
2020-09-29T23:35:54 < karlp> just stop
2020-09-29T23:36:12 < karlp> fluiD: what is your itm_sendchar implementation, is it blocking or not?
2020-09-29T23:36:30 < karlp> does your itm receiver side let you know when overflows are detected?
2020-09-29T23:36:43 < zyp> I assume it is blocking, otherwise it wouldn't work reliably at all
2020-09-29T23:36:59 < karlp> actually, it kinda does,a nd you often get output just like that
2020-09-29T23:37:05 < karlp> depennds on how fast the target is.
2020-09-29T23:37:10 < karlp> f4 at 168Mhz, not so good,
2020-09-29T23:37:18 < karlp> l1 at 32, works better th an you'd think...
2020-09-29T23:37:41 < zyp> with lines that long? SWO doesn't buffer that much does it?
2020-09-29T23:37:45 < karlp> even blocking you can still overflow buffers
2020-09-29T23:37:47 < fluiD> I suspected that I started getting drops when I upped the speed but I just did a test bringing it back down and I was still getting drops. I was in the process of dropping it back to the default speed.
2020-09-29T23:37:51 < karlp> stlink reads in chunks 
2020-09-29T23:38:11 < karlp> there's ~zero reason tto reduce swo speed
2020-09-29T23:38:18 < fluiD> I tried to looks for my ITM_SendChar definition but I have 6 CMSIS/Includes to choose from
2020-09-29T23:38:35 < karlp> just make sure  you told whatever is configfuring the itm block the correct clock speed you're running at
2020-09-29T23:38:49 < karlp> if you are using an stlink, make sure it' sbeen updated to ~relatively recent firmware as well.
2020-09-29T23:38:59 < karlp> there's been a variet of fixes in trace readout handling over thtte years
2020-09-29T23:39:02 < fluiD> STLink is latest firmware
2020-09-29T23:39:28 < fluiD> "Is blocking when a debugger is connected, but the previous character sent has not been transmitted."
2020-09-29T23:40:21 < zyp> hmm, orbuculum doesn't support stlink?
2020-09-29T23:40:38 < karlp> no, it supports getting the swo data in a file or on a socket
2020-09-29T23:40:56 < karlp> so openocd can write the file, and orbuculum reads it.
2020-09-29T23:41:02 < zyp> ah, right
2020-09-29T23:41:27 < karlp> or, if you need to avoid nfs writing in chunks, you have openocd write to a fifo, and nc to send it orbuculum, as a socket.
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2020-09-29T23:41:35 < karlp> jlink just presents it as a socket as well, 
2020-09-29T23:41:58 < zyp> might be worth a shot then
2020-09-29T23:42:13 < karlp> yeah, orbuculum will notify you of trace overflows as well.
2020-09-29T23:42:22 < karlp> which is almost defintiely what that looks like.
2020-09-29T23:42:47 < fluiD> I dropped the CPU down to 16 mhz, still getting corruption.
2020-09-29T23:42:49 < karlp> protip, use the 32 itm channels available, and format host side instead of printf :)
2020-09-29T23:43:27 < karlp> it can also be just completely garbage decoding in your receiving application...
2020-09-29T23:43:47 < zyp> I'd still bet on my null byte theory :)
2020-09-29T23:43:58 < fluiD> zyp, what's a good way to test it?
2020-09-29T23:44:02 < karlp> given that "printf" is almost definitely on itm chanenl 0 ;)
2020-09-29T23:44:15 < karlp> can you change what itm channel you're viewing?
2020-09-29T23:44:15 < zyp> fluiD, try openocd/orbuculum instead of your current tools
2020-09-29T23:44:36 < karlp> or just change your channnel tto view, annd change your ITM_sendchar to write to a differnt channel
2020-09-29T23:45:17 < karlp> unfortunately, all of the firstt 32 chars are control iirc, 32 is ' '
2020-09-29T23:45:20 < zyp> would that make a difference? I assume this happens a layer above the ITM channels
2020-09-29T23:45:52 < karlp> if you only have channel 0, you can kinda just "cat" the raw file and get itt, just with lots of 0s around the place.
2020-09-29T23:46:39 < karlp> if your trace write is actually correctly blocking, it _should_ be just receiving tooling issues.
2020-09-29T23:48:38 < fluiD> any advice on what I change to make ITM use a different channel? https://ctxt.io/2/AAAgnvVnFg
2020-09-29T23:50:58 < fluiD> I found a version of openocd compiled for windows, I'm working on trying to get that functional
2020-09-29T23:52:12 < fluiD> gah, I really don't want to get into screwing with USB drivers
2020-09-29T23:52:15 < karlp> change itm->port[n] to be what port you want.
2020-09-29T23:52:27 < karlp> itm->ter check is on a 32bit mask of channels
2020-09-29T23:52:38 < karlp> tcr too.
2020-09-29T23:52:54 < fluiD> Am I changing those, too?
2020-09-29T23:53:10 < zyp> the 1UL needs to be changed to (1 << n) or something
2020-09-29T23:53:32 < fluiD> k
2020-09-29T23:53:34 < karlp> no, leave the tcr one, that's whether trace is enabled at all.
2020-09-29T23:53:43 < zyp> yeah, just the 1UL
2020-09-29T23:53:43 < karlp> https://github.com/libopencm3/libopencm3/blob/master/tests/shared/trace.c is ~what you're going for
2020-09-29T23:54:32 < karlp> I love how the api takes u32....
2020-09-29T23:55:17 < fluiD> ok, made the changes to core_cm4.h, and changed my swv trace settings to monitor only channel 1. Same issue with dropped strings
2020-09-29T23:57:15 < fluiD> Tried a much shorter string and still get corruption.
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2020-09-29T23:58:07 < fluiD> longer strings corrupt more frequently.
2020-09-29T23:58:27 < fluiD> but result is the same.
2020-09-29T23:58:41 < zyp> I wouldn't have expected otherwise
2020-09-29T23:58:59 < fluiD> It's always nice to do a sanity check.
2020-09-29T23:59:10 < zyp> how does the trace settings look, can you get it to show raw trace packets instead of text strings?
2020-09-29T23:59:25 < Cracki> fluiD, it may be a good idea to repeat what tools you're using, i.e. say that you're using CubeIDE. that should let everyone know that it's eclipse + stlink's gdbserver
2020-09-29T23:59:25 < karlp> I'm trying to find a report on someone on either orbuculum or bmp or somewhere tttalking about how many strings they output flawlessly, 
2020-09-29T23:59:40 < karlp> I suspect it'ðs still the stlink driver cod eyou have misreading it.
--- Day changed Wed Sep 30 2020
2020-09-30T00:00:02 < zyp> Cracki, they already said
2020-09-30T00:00:12 < fluiD> Yes, I'm using the STM32CubeIDE.
2020-09-30T00:00:13 < Cracki> I know, which is why I said to repeat that
2020-09-30T00:00:23 < karlp> why would they need to repeate it?
2020-09-30T00:00:24 < Cracki> because reading the backlog suggests that it was in question
2020-09-30T00:00:34 < karlp> lurn2read?
2020-09-30T00:01:10 < fluiD> Do we really need to fight over something as trivial as making sure we're all on the same page?
2020-09-30T00:01:21 < Cracki> who's fighting
2020-09-30T00:01:26 < zyp> you :D
2020-09-30T00:01:31 < Cracki> lol wtf
2020-09-30T00:01:35 < Steffanx> Kids kids...
2020-09-30T00:01:37 < fluiD> *chuckle*
2020-09-30T00:01:57 < Cracki> zyp, this is an attitude I haven't seen from you
2020-09-30T00:02:27 < zyp> anyway, buffer overflow theory is reasonable, but I believe it would be more deterministic in where it overflows if that were the case
2020-09-30T00:02:42 < zyp> since the MCU would be outputting a consistent pattern
2020-09-30T00:03:22 < zyp> so I think it's more likely that it's random noise resulting in a null byte that gets buffered up and misread, prematurely terminating the buffer
2020-09-30T00:03:26 < fluiD> here we go
2020-09-30T00:03:49 < fluiD> I found a "swv trace log" window which will count "overflow packets" and that number increments at the same point I see a glitch in the text
2020-09-30T00:04:22 < karlp> https://github.com/karlp/orbuculum#reliability 
2020-09-30T00:04:30 < karlp> yeah, I suspected overflow packets
2020-09-30T00:04:56 < fluiD> ok! this appears consistent. So why am I getting overflow packets and what does that actually mean? Where is the overflow occurring? 
2020-09-30T00:04:57 < karlp> that's not from non-blocking writes though, you get it when the trace tool isn't doing it's end properly
2020-09-30T00:05:23 < karlp> turninngnn swo freq to the max your hw supports is one.
2020-09-30T00:05:45 < fluiD> pretty sure that's done, 2 mhz
2020-09-30T00:06:09 < karlp> then you're doing as well s you can do.
2020-09-30T00:06:27 < karlp> youcan either accuse your stlink receiving side sw, cubeide in this case, or the stlink firmware itself, your hoice
2020-09-30T00:06:28 < fluiD> if this is just an issue with me displaying the text, and not an issue with the chip corrupting the data, I'm fine with it.
2020-09-30T00:06:54 < karlp> you may get better results with alternative tooling, such as openocd/orbculum/libswo/etc.
2020-09-30T00:07:14 < karlp> you'll also avoid it by using less strings, and more value writes.
2020-09-30T00:07:25 < karlp> you're not doing anything wrong in your code
2020-09-30T00:07:25 < fluiD> <nod>
2020-09-30T00:07:43 < zyp> or perhaps better hardware?
2020-09-30T00:07:49 < karlp> stlinkv3 allegedly dramatically increases this speed for instance
2020-09-30T00:08:05 < karlp> bmp also claims to do better, jlink should as well,
2020-09-30T00:08:16 < fluiD> OK. It's not terribly common in my actual code, but I did push this thing to force it happening more frequently so I could verify it wasn't my code.
2020-09-30T00:08:17 < karlp> but really, don't do long strings, you'r enormally fine
2020-09-30T00:08:30 < karlp> I've done a lot of trace ove the years and I still just use an stlinkv2
2020-09-30T00:09:04 < fluiD> ok great. Thank you for helping me.
2020-09-30T00:09:10 < karlp> especialyl when I can do orbcat -c 3,"the adc raw coutner is: %d" -c 4,"filtered and offset is :%d" 
2020-09-30T00:09:20 < karlp> sort of thing
2020-09-30T00:09:56 < zyp> I still find it curious that it can get the first four letters of a string, overflow, and not recover before the end of the string
2020-09-30T00:10:25  * karlp shrugs
2020-09-30T00:11:16 < zyp> fluiD, maybe check whether you've got a lot of other activity on the USB bus the stlink is connected to?
2020-09-30T00:11:21 < karlp> I suspect \r is causing hat to be not as visible as you'd like.
2020-09-30T00:11:50 < karlp> stlinkv2 is only usb-fs anyway, thtough stt/mtt will affect your hub traffic...
2020-09-30T00:12:32 < karlp> old stlink firmware used to actually break with usb errors when it overflowed internally :|
2020-09-30T00:12:41 < karlp> thankfully that's over mostly these days :)
2020-09-30T00:12:45 < zyp> haha
2020-09-30T00:13:01 < karlp> ahd all sorts of madness when I dug up and old board at the office not too long ago,
2020-09-30T00:13:02 < zyp> all the problems I've missed out on since I switched to BMP :)
2020-09-30T00:13:06 < karlp> til I remembered to check.
2020-09-30T00:13:24 < karlp> well, "noone" used trace back in early stlink days.
2020-09-30T00:13:27 < zyp> not that BMP doesn't have problems :p
2020-09-30T00:13:40 < fluiD> This is USB 3.1 host controller -> USB 3.0 hub -> stlink but that 3.0 hub is also shared with my USB c docking station with a displayport and ethernet.
2020-09-30T00:14:30 < zyp> usb3 is independent of usb2, so usb3 devices have no impact on usb2 traffic
2020-09-30T00:15:23 < zyp> and usb-c displayport is also independent, docking stations like that are using two of the fast pairs for usb3 and the other two for displayport
2020-09-30T00:15:27 < fluiD> then there's not much to contend with other than a keyboard and a mouse
2020-09-30T00:15:35 < fluiD> maybe bluetooth is also on that
2020-09-30T00:15:43 < zyp> shouldn't be an issue then
2020-09-30T00:16:01 < zyp> usb2 will be HS to the hub in the docking station
2020-09-30T00:16:20 < fluiD> the stlink doesn't go through the docking station, it goes straight into the laptop
2020-09-30T00:16:27 < zyp> ah
2020-09-30T00:16:44 < zyp> even so
2020-09-30T00:17:31 < zyp> usb2 are using transaction translators to translate between HS (480 Mb/s) and FS/LS (12/1.5 Mb/s)
2020-09-30T00:18:08 < zyp> some hubs only have a single transaction translator i.e. STT, which means that all FS/LS devices connected to it will have to share a common 12Mb/s capacity
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2020-09-30T00:19:10 < zyp> but devices connected to a different transaction translator have their own 12 Mb/s, only shared from the common 480 Mb/s capacity
2020-09-30T00:21:34 < zyp> now we're getting pretty far off track though
2020-09-30T00:22:05 < qyx> FIY  10BASE-T1L https://www.ti.com/product/DP83TD510E
2020-09-30T00:22:28 < zyp> nice, actual hardware
2020-09-30T00:23:11 < qyx> preproduction only
2020-09-30T00:27:06 < zyp> oh, wait, T1S was the interesting one
2020-09-30T00:27:22 < zyp> T1L is long range point to point, T1S is short range multidrop
2020-09-30T00:28:53 < qyx> hm, I though T1L is long range multidrop
2020-09-30T00:29:00 < qyx> but theres no multidrop in the TI part
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2020-09-30T00:44:15 < zyp> wouldn't really be a need for a short range variant if the long range one could do everything :)
2020-09-30T00:45:53 < qyx> I need a 500m multidrop one!
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2020-09-30T00:51:11 < zyp> how about putting two phys and a switch in your device? :)
2020-09-30T00:51:40 < zyp> or perhaps a hub if switch latency would be an issue
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2020-09-30T00:55:06 < zyp> microchip support is not being very helpful so far, so I figure I should hack up a fpga with a couple of phys some day so I can prototype my own low latency hub thing
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2020-09-30T00:58:03 < qyx> I would like to do PtP
2020-09-30T01:00:31 < antto> aww, microsh*t
2020-09-30T01:02:20 < zyp> yeah
2020-09-30T01:02:34 < sync> ooof zyp, that sounds like autism
2020-09-30T01:02:42 < zyp> sync, what does?
2020-09-30T01:02:59 < sync> making your own low latency switch
2020-09-30T01:04:08 < zyp> then find me an available chip with two 100base-t ports and a RMII port that can do it for me
2020-09-30T01:05:02 < sync> doesn't that ethercat stuff work?
2020-09-30T01:08:00 < zyp> switching to ethercat would mean throwing out the entire network stack and starting over
2020-09-30T01:08:44 < qyx> also the phy
2020-09-30T01:08:48 < sync> yeah but there are phys for that stuff that do exactly that
2020-09-30T01:08:54 < sync> not sure how they do it tho
2020-09-30T01:09:09 < sync> I have not been following your requirements
2020-09-30T01:09:09 < zyp> no, ethercat is a whole different beast
2020-09-30T01:09:20 < zyp> ethercat is based on frame rewriting
2020-09-30T01:10:35 < zyp> in ethercat, the master sends out one frame that passes through all slaves and each slave rewrites it on the fly to fill its respective fields in the packet
2020-09-30T01:10:55 < zyp> frame loops around getting rewritten and arrives back at the master
2020-09-30T01:11:22 < zyp> pretty elegant, but requires hardware capable of rewriting on the fly
2020-09-30T01:11:39 < zyp> which means either fpga or special purpose stuff like the netx chips
2020-09-30T01:13:00 < zyp> we opted to go for a different protocol that does request/response frames, to avoid the need for special purpose stuff
2020-09-30T01:13:11 < Cracki> how does "on the fly" differ from store-modify-resend, apart from the delay? is that delay such a big issue?
2020-09-30T01:13:20 < zyp> yes
2020-09-30T01:13:42 < Cracki> the delay should be several microseconds
2020-09-30T01:14:27 < zyp> store and forward means that it scales with O(n^2)
2020-09-30T01:14:37 < Cracki> normal ethernet switches only have to check the header, or parts of it, before they can "pass through" the rest of the frame, delayed by that piece... I guess there are those that do a complete store and forward too
2020-09-30T01:15:13 < Cracki> oh well, there's queueing, sure
2020-09-30T01:15:21 < Cracki> with a ring you have no queueing
2020-09-30T01:15:41 < zyp> just consider this
2020-09-30T01:16:41 < zyp> the cycle time consists of the average latency multiplied by the amount of data to be exchanged
2020-09-30T01:17:02 < Cracki> for on the fly rewrite, or for store and forward
2020-09-30T01:17:02 < zyp> with store and forward, the average latency is proportional to the number of devices, and so is the amount of data
2020-09-30T01:17:07 < zyp> hence O(n^2)
2020-09-30T01:17:48 < Cracki> uh
2020-09-30T01:18:19 < Cracki> you say O(n^2) but what quantity is in O(n^2), and is n the number of devices or something else
2020-09-30T01:19:01 < zyp> n is number of devices, O(n^2) is the time required for a full communication cycle
2020-09-30T01:19:16 < Cracki> how is cycle time defined, is it the time for an ethercat packet to do one round and arrive back at the master?
2020-09-30T01:19:39 < zyp> I'm not talking about ethercat
2020-09-30T01:20:09 < zyp> but yes, in the ethercat case, it would be
2020-09-30T01:20:09 < Cracki> assuming a ring, it should be O(n), with merely a factor if every node does a full store and forward instead of rewriting on the fly, which is equivalent to delaying by a bit or a few bits
2020-09-30T01:20:54 < Cracki> in the ethernet case, what is the goal? soliciting a response from all slaves? broadcast a ping or whatever, then you get n-1 packets arriving nearly at the same time
2020-09-30T01:21:00 < zyp> no, it would be O(n^2) in that case too
2020-09-30T01:21:11 < Cracki> the only hazard I see there is if the switch can't handle the bandwidth
2020-09-30T01:21:13 < Cracki> why tho
2020-09-30T01:21:21 < Cracki> the switch fans out the broadcast packet
2020-09-30T01:21:38 < zyp> because amount of data would also increase
2020-09-30T01:21:43 < Cracki> _if_ you had only unicast, sure, you'd have O(n) cost because you'd have to send n-1 requests and get n-1 responses
2020-09-30T01:22:08 < Cracki> the only way for N^2 to make sense if every device has to get every other device's data, i.e. everyone broadcasts
2020-09-30T01:22:26 < Cracki> which may be the case, but I don't assume that from a master-slave situation
2020-09-30T01:25:02 < zyp> since ethercat uses frame rewriting, one communication cycle is only a single frame being passed around and rewritten
2020-09-30T01:25:35 < Cracki> iow, if you assert O(n^2), I must conclude that you expect every device to see the data every other device has written, which would require two loops of the packet in the ethercat case. first to collect the data, second to have everone see it.
2020-09-30T01:26:02 < zyp> I guess technically with store/modify/forward the master could start one cycle before the previous one has completed
2020-09-30T01:26:12 < Cracki> what I'm asking is: DO you mean that every device gets to see every other device's transmitted data, i.e. everyone broadcasts?
2020-09-30T01:26:39 < zyp> in ethercat that distinction is moot
2020-09-30T01:26:45 < Cracki> is it
2020-09-30T01:27:03 < zyp> yes, because the frame is passing through every slave in order
2020-09-30T01:27:14 < Cracki> if it's a ring, the first slave sees nothing but the master's version of the frame, and it will never see what subsequent slaves write to it
2020-09-30T01:27:23 < Cracki> so that is _not_ all-broadcast
2020-09-30T01:27:26 < zyp> but each node only sees it as it came out of the previous node
2020-09-30T01:27:36 < Cracki> yes, that's why we call it a ring
2020-09-30T01:27:45 < Cracki> I still don't see O(n^2)
2020-09-30T01:27:57 < zyp> look at it from the master perspective
2020-09-30T01:29:37 < zyp> if you send 64 bytes, it'll take 64*8 bit times + preamble/whatever per node before it gets the reply back
2020-09-30T01:29:56 < Cracki> what situation, ethercat or ethernet
2020-09-30T01:30:01 < zyp> ethercat
2020-09-30T01:30:10 < Cracki> why is that the case
2020-09-30T01:30:38 < zyp> because each node in the ring needs to receive the packet, rewrite it, and pass it on
2020-09-30T01:30:42 < Cracki> ehtercat with on the fly rewriting would mean the master _could_ start receiving the first bit of the frame even before it has finished sending the last bit of it
2020-09-30T01:30:54 < zyp> correct
2020-09-30T01:30:59 < Cracki> ok
2020-09-30T01:31:12 < Cracki> then why is " 64*8 bit times + preamble/whatever per node"
2020-09-30T01:31:16 < zyp> ethercat with on the fly rewriting is O(n)
2020-09-30T01:31:27 < zyp> ethercat with store/modify/forward is O(n^29
2020-09-30T01:31:31 < zyp> ethercat with store/modify/forward is O(n^2)
2020-09-30T01:32:07 < Cracki> I think I see what the issue is
2020-09-30T01:32:20 < zyp> each store/modify/forward will consume the time required to pass the frame from one node to the next
2020-09-30T01:32:22 < Cracki> it's not O(n*n), it's O(n*m) where n is number of nodes and m is duration of packet
2020-09-30T01:32:31 < zyp> correct
2020-09-30T01:32:31 < Cracki> that's not strictly quadratic
2020-09-30T01:32:40 < Cracki> because m has a practical upper bound
2020-09-30T01:34:13 < Cracki> ok then, given it has to be a ring, the store-and-forward delay is magnified by the number of slaves. sure.
2020-09-30T01:34:35 < Cracki> that can grow to be noticeable, I see that
2020-09-30T01:34:39 < zyp> yes, and the amount of data, i.e. the size of the frame is also proportional with the number of slaves
2020-09-30T01:35:28 < zyp> you're right that it's O(m*n), and since m=n*k, you get O(n^2)
2020-09-30T01:36:18 < zyp> anyway, I'm not running ethercat, I'm running EPL (or a subset of it)
2020-09-30T01:36:51 < Cracki> and I'm guessing ring topo's advantage is that you can have hundreds of slaves and you need no switch with that many ports
2020-09-30T01:37:03 < Cracki> EPL, never heard of it, let's look it up
2020-09-30T01:37:20 < Cracki> aha! m=n*k
2020-09-30T01:37:21 < zyp> in EPL, the master sends a unicast poll to each slave, the slaves respond with broadcast responses
2020-09-30T01:37:40 < zyp> but the math works out the same
2020-09-30T01:38:30 < zyp> poll/response still scales with store/forward latency, and the number of packets rather than the size scales with the number of slaves
2020-09-30T01:38:33 < Cracki> broadcast. sounds intentional because I see no reason to do that out of "laziness".
2020-09-30T01:39:07 < Cracki> ah, "Ethernet Powerlink "
2020-09-30T01:39:11 < zyp> yes
2020-09-30T01:39:19 < Cracki> > It was introduced by Austrian automation company B&R in 2001.
2020-09-30T01:40:54 < zyp> the ring topologys advantage is cabling simplicity and redundancy
2020-09-30T01:41:22 < Cracki> redundancy if the master figures out there's a break and then sends another packet the other way
2020-09-30T01:41:32 < zyp> correct
2020-09-30T01:41:56 < zyp> and simplicitly by not requiring a switch and star topology wiring
2020-09-30T01:43:10 < zyp> the redundancy part would also benefit from an FPGA implementation
2020-09-30T01:43:11 < qyx> zyp: what do you use for ethernet, D-coded or X-coded?
2020-09-30T01:43:22 < zyp> D, it's 100BASE-T
2020-09-30T01:43:32 < zyp> IIRC X is for gigabit
2020-09-30T01:43:48 < zyp> (two vs four pairs)
2020-09-30T01:44:02 < qyx> that too, but you can run gigabit over A-coded 8pin apparently
2020-09-30T01:44:17 < qyx> at least they say it is equivalent to cat 5e
2020-09-30T01:44:20 < zyp> I mean, sure
2020-09-30T01:44:25 < qyx> X is 6a
2020-09-30T01:44:51 < qyx> ok, that was not the actual question
2020-09-30T01:45:08 < qyx> from top of your head, switch has females, cables are males?
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2020-09-30T01:45:33 < zyp> I don't have switches, just nodes
2020-09-30T01:45:41 < antto> <andthentheyallf_cked.jpg>
2020-09-30T01:46:31 < zyp> but yeah, looks like cables are all male, if I'm looking at it right
2020-09-30T01:47:10 < zyp> what part do you look at when telling whether it's male or female? :p
2020-09-30T01:47:27 < antto> the presence or absence of senpai
2020-09-30T01:47:43 < Cracki> this looks like "radio discipline" (master polls slaves in turn, slaves don't speak unless spoken to), not much "intelligence" in it (such as master broadcasting a schedule once per cycle or statically). and this assumes that the network is _only_ EPL participants. otherwise any switch's queues might (or might not) overflow https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ethernet_Powerlink#Basic_cycle
2020-09-30T01:48:00 < zyp> Cracki, correct
2020-09-30T01:49:12 < qyx> zyp: center of the pin
2020-09-30T01:49:22 < qyx> the conductive pin
2020-09-30T01:49:24 < Cracki> I rarely buy ethernet switches. I guess some can map different vlans to different queues
2020-09-30T01:49:54 < qyx> if it is a pin, it is always male regardless of other parts of the connector looking femalish
2020-09-30T01:50:34 < zyp> qyx, https://bin.jvnv.net/file/kvZ4j.jpg
2020-09-30T01:51:36 < qyx> nice T-coded males
2020-09-30T01:51:42 < qyx> yeah D is female
2020-09-30T01:51:56 < zyp> dual power inlets, for redundancy
2020-09-30T01:52:23 < qyx> two different psus too?
2020-09-30T01:52:41 < zyp> yes
2020-09-30T01:53:08 < qyx> such pro
2020-09-30T01:53:44 < antto> very deluxe
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2020-09-30T01:54:15 < mawk> poor bvernoux
2020-09-30T01:54:18 < mawk> you killed him
2020-09-30T01:54:23 < zyp> the system as a whole is designed to be single failure tolerant, so the idea is to run two PSUs for the whole system
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2020-09-30T01:54:48 < zyp> if one of the power rails is shorted out, everything should be able to run from the other
2020-09-30T01:55:28 < zyp> (don't run both cables next to each other so they both get damaged by the same accident
2020-09-30T01:57:33 < karlp> always a classic
2020-09-30T01:57:46 < zyp> losing a whole slave will be routed around by the ring network, and there's also extra masters in standby
2020-09-30T01:57:50 < karlp> worked for an ISP in the late 90s that had paid explicitly for redundant upstream links.
2020-09-30T01:57:55 < karlp> everything goes down...
2020-09-30T01:58:10 < karlp> provider had laid both the redundant links in the same trench, 
2020-09-30T01:58:15 < zyp> different strands in the same fiber cable? :)
2020-09-30T01:58:25 < antto> karlp, $optimizations
2020-09-30T01:58:47 < karlp> probably actually just failure to communicate requirements from mangement to field ops really,
2020-09-30T01:59:00 < karlp> still, gives rise to the joke...
2020-09-30T01:59:15 < karlp> if you're lost in the desert, with only a length of fibre, what do you do?
2020-09-30T01:59:32 < antto> someone looked at it and "wtf, why is this done twice, these idiots.. wtf, imma fix it for them"
2020-09-30T02:01:40 < qyx> it was a port channel!
2020-09-30T02:04:03 < mawk> hang yourself karlp ?
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2020-09-30T02:27:22 < Cracki> https://longnow.org/essays/richard-feynman-connection-machine/
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2020-09-30T03:06:47 < Laurenceb> four more israel defence walls
2020-09-30T03:07:24 < Laurenceb> MIGA
2020-09-30T03:12:30 -!- jsoft [~jsoft@unaffiliated/jsoft] has joined ##stm32
2020-09-30T03:18:26 < Laurenceb> yeah yeah yeah
2020-09-30T03:18:31 < Laurenceb> but hunter Biden
2020-09-30T03:18:43 < Laurenceb> also I did build 100m of my border wall
2020-09-30T03:19:02 < Laurenceb> just 4 more years bro, I really will MAGA this time for sure
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2020-09-30T03:19:32 < Laurenceb> Hillary is going to prison bro
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2020-09-30T03:39:06 < Cracki> russian oligarch strokes the pussy (SFW) https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uoZUEc_HfA4
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2020-09-30T05:50:28 < Laurenceb> the absolute fucking state of the muricans
2020-09-30T05:50:40 < Laurenceb> >300million of them and these two idiots are the best they have
2020-09-30T05:51:15 < Laurenceb> imagine getting outwitted by ronald blimpf
2020-09-30T05:51:41 < Laurenceb> >my Green New Deal....
2020-09-30T05:51:44 < Laurenceb> >wait wut....
2020-09-30T05:52:08 < Cracki> mud wrestling
2020-09-30T05:52:18 < Laurenceb> >no thats not my plan its some idiot internet crackpot scheme, nah *gets interrupted and nobody realises*
2020-09-30T05:53:00 < Laurenceb> thats about the only bit of actual policy I know about and I was cringing hard at Biden failing epically
2020-09-30T05:53:19 < Cracki> >Biden believes the Green New Deal is a crucial framework for meeting the climate challenges we face https://joebiden.com/climate-plan/#
2020-09-30T05:53:22 < Cracki> fucken liar
2020-09-30T05:53:31 < Laurenceb> wait wut
2020-09-30T05:53:32 < Cracki> disavow disavow
2020-09-30T05:53:39 < Laurenceb> now I'm as confused as Biden
2020-09-30T05:53:43 < Cracki> he disavowed the green new deal in the debate
2020-09-30T05:53:54 < Cracki> on his own fucken website he endorses it
2020-09-30T05:53:58 < Cracki> he's demented obv
2020-09-30T05:54:02 < Laurenceb> yeah I thought he was far too sane to ever endorse it as its crackpot nonsense
2020-09-30T05:54:08 < Cracki> or he thinks (rightly) that muricans can be snowed that easily
2020-09-30T05:54:14 < Cracki> orly
2020-09-30T05:54:41 < Cracki> he's a democrat figurehead. leftists always work towards annihilation
2020-09-30T05:54:51 < Laurenceb> ok I think he means "green new deal" in a general sense
2020-09-30T05:54:58 < Laurenceb> this is epically retarded
2020-09-30T05:55:07 < Cracki> it's not crackpot, _they_ came up with it
2020-09-30T05:55:13 < Cracki> ok it's crackpot, but they came up with it
2020-09-30T05:55:24 < Laurenceb> nah there was an AOC "green new deal" that was complete bullshit
2020-09-30T05:55:28 < Cracki> I'm sure he doesn't. he knows very well wat they're talking about
2020-09-30T05:55:47 < Laurenceb> then it was widely circulated and its what everyone including Trump called the "Green new deal"
2020-09-30T05:55:56 < Cracki> it's in capitals, it's a thing, they made it, they're gonna run with it
2020-09-30T05:56:05 < Laurenceb> then Biden thought it would be a good idea to have his own saner version
2020-09-30T05:56:15 < Laurenceb> but then got confused as to what the fuck was even going on
2020-09-30T05:56:27 < Laurenceb> the absolute state
2020-09-30T05:57:35 < Laurenceb> see, UK "green new deal" is much saner, no money for stratosolar
2020-09-30T05:57:48 < Cracki> shoving that geezer in front of a live camera, with trump swiping at him, that's just abuse of the elderly
2020-09-30T05:58:14 < Cracki> wait didn't you want money for stratosolar? or were your solar blimps something else?
2020-09-30T05:59:01 < Cracki> neighbor's cat meowing at 5am. she must be freezing her teats off
--- Log closed Wed Sep 30 06:04:45 2020
--- Log opened Wed Sep 30 06:24:53 2020
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2020-09-30T12:16:31 < karlp> mawk: no, you just bury the fibre in the ground.
2020-09-30T12:16:46 < karlp> someone will be along shortly to dig a trench through it...
2020-09-30T12:22:22 < Steffanx> -_-
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2020-09-30T12:35:33 < Steffanx> oh hi BrainDamage... 
2020-09-30T13:03:16 < jpa-> Steffanx: i found a christmas present for you  https://i.kym-cdn.com/photos/images/newsfeed/001/584/957/ea7.png
2020-09-30T13:03:43 < Steffanx> Yay. Awesome
2020-09-30T13:04:51 < karlp> I think we all need some.
2020-09-30T13:05:13 < karlp> hrm, would anyone actualy be interested in ##stm32 swag?
2020-09-30T13:05:22 < Steffanx> jpa-: i prefer my home time sweatpants though. I recall seeing you in those too (not mine, but .. yours)
2020-09-30T13:05:29 < Steffanx> if you make ##stm32 sweatpants.. yeah karlp :P
2020-09-30T13:05:59 < karlp> stickers or clothes or whatnot?
2020-09-30T13:06:25 < jpa-> now i wonder how you have seen me in sweatpants, though apart from without pants that's probably the most likely way to see me
2020-09-30T13:07:12 < Steffanx> On your instagram ofcourse jpa-
2020-09-30T13:09:53 < Steffanx> nah, it were some photos you posted here or on your blog once
2020-09-30T13:11:39 < Steffanx> idk karlp. im not sure i would wear such thing. or put the sticker anywhere
2020-09-30T13:12:12 < Steffanx> i always remove stickers, not add them
2020-09-30T13:13:36 < karlp> was just a thought.
2020-09-30T13:13:43 < karlp> I'm not sure what it woudl be either :)
2020-09-30T13:17:29 < PaulFertser> "The trope led to the rise in popularity of similar jokes such as cross-dressing during programming to improve one's coding skills." https://knowyourmeme.com/memes/programming-socks some people here would definitely benefit from improved coding skills
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2020-09-30T13:20:35 < karlp> TIL
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2020-09-30T13:27:10 < Steffanx> Things you dont really have to know about :P
2020-09-30T13:39:43 < qyx> karlp: a tshirt with a chip icon with a stm32 label on it
2020-09-30T13:40:32 < karlp> but that's just like a st branded one,
2020-09-30T13:40:49 < karlp> I was thinking more ##stm32 style... sfw, unless you knew what it meant...
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2020-09-30T14:47:29 < jadew> this is why linux is stupid: %sudo   ALL=(ALL:ALL) ALL
2020-09-30T14:47:54 < jadew> you have to read the manual for every fucking config file on the system
2020-09-30T14:48:15 < jadew> just to figure out what moronic and unique format someone decided to use there
2020-09-30T14:48:51 < jadew> ini was too gay, everyone understood it
2020-09-30T14:48:55 < jadew> let's save bytes
2020-09-30T14:48:59 < jadew> fucking idiots
2020-09-30T14:50:45 < jadew> there's a ton of articles on "Understading sudores file"
2020-09-30T14:50:52 < karlp> how many users are you trying to manage ont he same system that you're interested in any custom sudoers anyway?
2020-09-30T14:51:14 < jadew> karlp, I'm interested in allowing something specific to happen
2020-09-30T14:51:28 < jadew> it's not about the number of users
2020-09-30T14:51:42 < jadew> anyway, my point is that those fucks who write code for linux are fucking retards
2020-09-30T14:51:58 < effractur> well it is just a collection of a lot of differnt tools
2020-09-30T14:51:58 < jadew> can't even make a config file that makes sense
2020-09-30T14:52:21 < jly> the dogs
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2020-09-30T15:10:16 < Steffanx> Hows the doggo jly?
2020-09-30T15:11:48 < jly> the DOGS
2020-09-30T15:11:59 < jly> idj
2020-09-30T15:12:03 < jly> idk
2020-09-30T15:15:53 < Steffanx> hm
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2020-09-30T16:18:07 < PaulFertser> jadew: ton of articles just to understand the what's described in standard EBNF in the man page, seriously?
2020-09-30T16:18:29 < PaulFertser> jadew: sudo is not related to linux btw.
2020-09-30T16:33:23 < catphish> the sudoers syntax is indeed cryptic and stupid
2020-09-30T16:33:54 < catphish> but in linux's defence, it pre-dates them
2020-09-30T16:38:35 < Steffanx> then they should have done what they do best. (re)invent something new :P
2020-09-30T16:42:18 < PaulFertser> catphish: how can it be cryptic if it's fully described on few lines in the man page?
2020-09-30T16:42:50 < PaulFertser> Well, not few lines
2020-09-30T16:42:52 < PaulFertser> Quite a few
2020-09-30T16:43:27 < PaulFertser> But I can hardly imagine you can describe any syntax capable of all those features in considerably fewer lines.
2020-09-30T16:44:54 < catphish> PaulFertser: my own opinion is that it could be far more intuitive
2020-09-30T16:45:00 < mawk> sudoers syntax seems fine to me
2020-09-30T16:45:04 < mawk> just have to read the man
2020-09-30T16:46:32 < Steffanx> Good morning mawk
2020-09-30T16:46:44 < mawk> it's 4pm
2020-09-30T16:47:44 < jadew> that's the point, if you need to read the manual, it's stupid
2020-09-30T16:47:45 < PaulFertser> The basic structure of a user specification is “who where = (as_whom) what”.
2020-09-30T16:47:55 < mawk> lol jadew 
2020-09-30T16:47:57 < mawk> are you serious
2020-09-30T16:47:59 < jadew> yes
2020-09-30T16:48:06 < jadew> you can have descriptive parameters
2020-09-30T16:48:15 < mawk> ok so I give you the name of my program, and I ask you to write the config file
2020-09-30T16:48:22 < mawk> what do you do, infer all you need to wrote just from the name?
2020-09-30T16:48:25 < jadew> config0.user = whatever
2020-09-30T16:48:33 < jadew> config0.allow = something_else
2020-09-30T16:48:39 < mawk> how do you know you need to write that?
2020-09-30T16:48:42 < jadew> it's very easy to write configuration for the fucking user
2020-09-30T16:48:47 < catphish> jadew: how would you know to write that?
2020-09-30T16:48:51 < jadew> especially when you know they're going to use the stupid console
2020-09-30T16:49:01 < catphish> i don't think i'd go as far as jadew, but i do think it shouldn't have to re-read the manual every time i edit the file
2020-09-30T16:49:15 < jadew> catphish, you look around at other shit that's already there
2020-09-30T16:49:15 < mawk> I don't have to re-read the man, I read it once
2020-09-30T16:49:35 < catphish> jadew: yeah no, don't rely on that
2020-09-30T16:49:40 < catphish> jadew: you're wrong :)
2020-09-30T16:49:44 < jadew> I'm not
2020-09-30T16:50:00 < jadew> cli shit shouldn't be made more difficult than it already is
2020-09-30T16:50:37 < catphish> but... i do hate sudoers, i think a simple one-line-per-entry with space separated fields and an options field would be far superior, but i didn't write it :)
2020-09-30T16:50:41 < mawk> sudo can do much more than what you think it does
2020-09-30T16:50:45 < jadew> naming parameters and keeping a simple assignment process goes a long way
2020-09-30T16:51:00 < mawk> so it doesn't really have to conform to your simple expectations
2020-09-30T16:51:04 < mawk> and sudoers is just one plugin of sudo
2020-09-30T16:51:08 < jadew> doing something like user and then specifying a bunch of shit with = and : in it, is just dumb
2020-09-30T16:51:27 < catphish> mawk: i have no problem with sudo, i just don't like sudoers' choice of file format is all :)
2020-09-30T16:51:34 < catphish> purely a personal complaint
2020-09-30T16:51:37 < mawk> yes I say that to jadew catphish 
2020-09-30T16:51:44 < mawk> he says "it should be simple to just say this and that"
2020-09-30T16:51:52 < mawk> but if you make something simple, you make the other part harder
2020-09-30T16:52:05 < jadew> mawk, yes, the other part should be the programming
2020-09-30T16:52:17 < jadew> they're doing this crap because they're lazy incompetent fucks
2020-09-30T16:52:18 < catphish> also, i really don't think names config options suits a config where the root element is an array
2020-09-30T16:52:20 < mawk> no I mean sudo can do more things than you think
2020-09-30T16:52:23 < catphish> *named
2020-09-30T16:52:34 < mawk> so if doings the things you think of is easy, it will become hard to do all the advanced rules
2020-09-30T16:53:02 < catphish> named options is great for mysql for example, but sudoers isn't a set of options with one value each, its an array of entries
2020-09-30T16:53:20 < catphish> personally i'd have it look like fstab, but meh
2020-09-30T16:53:40 < jadew> you can nest shit and still make it readable
2020-09-30T16:53:42 < jadew> see json...
2020-09-30T16:53:51 < Steffanx> fstab ... still needo read docs then catphish :P
2020-09-30T16:53:55 < jadew> simple thing, able to hold objects of any complexity (almost)
2020-09-30T16:54:09 < jadew> and it's extremely readable
2020-09-30T16:54:19 < catphish> jadew: you could make a json sudo module, it would probably be popular
2020-09-30T16:54:27 < Steffanx> lol
2020-09-30T16:54:36 < Steffanx> jadew has to make a picologger clone first
2020-09-30T16:54:38 < catphish> but json probably didn't exist when sudo was written :)
2020-09-30T16:54:51 < jadew> catphish, it exists now tho...
2020-09-30T16:55:16 < jadew> Steffanx, in my defense, I wouldn't have done the json module
2020-09-30T16:56:29 < jadew> I mean... I get it, let's say it's old and the guy who wrote that didn't know better at the time, but we're a lifetime later
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2020-09-30T16:57:14 < jadew> 30-40 years from the time when linux was "almost ready to take over"
2020-09-30T16:57:18 < jadew> and we still have to deal with this shit
2020-09-30T16:57:50 < jadew> the same shit that kept it back then from taking over
2020-09-30T16:58:46 < jadew> I think that time was 20-30 years ago...
2020-09-30T17:00:09 < Cracki> allow me to comment and say that I like file formats that allow comments. that way you can just dump part of the docs in there. it's "context sensitive help". crontab files can contain comments and tend to come with a default comment block that describes the situation
2020-09-30T17:00:38 < jadew> right, never had issues with crontabs
2020-09-30T17:00:59 < Cracki> json would benefit from comments but it's also meant to be written, and maintaining comments means you'd have to read *comments* and carry them along, which is silly
2020-09-30T17:01:01 < jadew> the problem with the sudoers is that it takes too much space to explain that crap
2020-09-30T17:01:19 < Cracki> it's a domain specific language
2020-09-30T17:01:43 < jadew> anyway, I have to get back to configuring this thing
2020-09-30T17:02:06 < Cracki> some things use s-expressions (lisp syntax). due to its "lack of syntax" it tends to use words to express meaning. that may look more accessible.
2020-09-30T17:02:20 < Cracki> no stay here let's fight over things instead of accomplishing things :D
2020-09-30T17:02:29 < jadew> heh
2020-09-30T17:02:46 < jadew> I kinda want to upgrade my PC now
2020-09-30T17:03:10 < Cracki> re programming socks, there's a picture where amazon is claimed to recommend the C programming language book along with them (or vice versa). probably shopped tho.
2020-09-30T17:03:23 < jadew> this thing has so much RAM, it could probably run Chrome
2020-09-30T17:03:46 < Cracki> I'll ride this horse until it breaks down. I have access to crunchier boxes. this is good enough for at home.
2020-09-30T17:04:05 < Cracki> something that draws less power would be nice tho
2020-09-30T17:12:17 < mawk> I have 32GiB of ram and chrome sucks up 28GiB of it
2020-09-30T17:14:23 < Cracki> :D my signature is worse than a medical doctor's oh well
2020-09-30T17:14:40 < Cracki> how many tabs? two starting pages?
2020-09-30T17:15:13 < Cracki> there are some things you can influence. chrome does "freeze-dry" some tabs. chrome://discards/
2020-09-30T17:15:23 < Cracki> there are ways of making that more aggressive
2020-09-30T17:15:43 < Cracki> (besides bookmarking a whole window of tabs and closing it)
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2020-09-30T17:24:07 < Steffanx> Why you use Chrome mawk?
2020-09-30T17:24:25 < Steffanx> Also: dont use tabs as bookmarks.
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2020-09-30T17:56:01 < jadew> mawk, I switched to Edge - much nicer
2020-09-30T17:56:30 < jadew> I don't know how FF is these days
2020-09-30T17:57:21 < jadew> I just fought off a DDoS attack
2020-09-30T17:57:42 < jadew> this day is action packed
2020-09-30T17:59:57 < karlp> I moved to FF from chromium about a year ago.
2020-09-30T18:00:13 < karlp> after having given up on FF n years before that.
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2020-09-30T18:11:17 < jadew> I gave up on FF many years ago as well, because chrome was faster
2020-09-30T18:11:52 < jadew> the reason I didn't go back to it is because I like the dev tools in chromium and Edge is based on that
2020-09-30T18:19:45 < Steffanx> Firefox is fine for me
2020-09-30T18:20:01 < Steffanx> I see no advantage over any other
2020-09-30T18:26:57 < Cracki> edge is based on chromium. shouldn't differ too much from chrome.
2020-09-30T18:27:52 < Cracki> abandoned ff a while ago too for technical reasons (slow as fuck) but these days mozilla is... problematic. if you want something firefoxy, there is the Brave browser
2020-09-30T18:29:14 < jadew> brave is also based on chromium
2020-09-30T18:29:19 < Cracki> MS should do an internet explorer revival, give it the 90s look
2020-09-30T18:29:22 < Cracki> wut it is?
2020-09-30T18:29:51 < Cracki> it is indeed! the dude who builds brave was involved with firefox/mozilla, I guess I mistook that
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2020-09-30T18:31:44 < Cracki> lol https://www.theregister.com/2020/08/25/firefox_android_update/
2020-09-30T18:33:23 < Cracki> and instead of owning up to their bullshit, they bring excuses
2020-09-30T18:35:27 < jadew> ah, the add-on thing was to be expected
2020-09-30T18:36:04 < Cracki> them using the word "bias" at all is incredibly problematic
2020-09-30T18:36:28 < jadew> they probably mean "google evil", but they didn't know how to say it
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2020-09-30T18:37:07 < jadew> and I guess that from their perspective, the evilness comes in the form of a competing engine
2020-09-30T18:37:40 < jadew> I agree tho
2020-09-30T18:37:44 < jadew> google evil
2020-09-30T18:37:52 < Cracki> nothing wrong using system rendering or their own. but they use doublespeak
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2020-09-30T18:41:27 < jadew> I take that back, they're just money oriented
2020-09-30T18:41:33 < jadew> which is not evil
2020-09-30T18:42:27 < Cracki> companies are psychopaths.
2020-09-30T18:43:12 < jadew> hmm, those are the exact words I use to describe companies
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2020-09-30T18:44:07 < jadew> but yeah, the moment you have more than a couple of people, the psychopath-like behaviour is impossible to avoid
2020-09-30T18:44:41 < jadew> when you're dealing with a company that has a tight collective or one-man companies, you're actually dealing with human beings
2020-09-30T18:45:03 < Cracki> it's an organism that is constrained by laws (and lawfare) but inside of that its goal is profit
2020-09-30T18:45:07 < jadew> but when the company gets separated into decision making and people who execute on those decisions, you end up dealing with the guy who follows orders
2020-09-30T18:45:11 < jadew> and has no say in the matter
2020-09-30T18:45:15 < Cracki> ye
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2020-09-30T18:45:55 < Cracki> humans have evolved instincts to detect and avoid predators/psychopaths, when they're people. with corps it doesn't work too well.
2020-09-30T18:46:13 < Cracki> "big corps are too impersonal" are an inkling of the instinct working
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2020-09-30T18:57:58 < Steffanx> Welcome back mr BrainDamage  :)
2020-09-30T18:58:39 < BrainDamage> hello
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2020-09-30T19:17:47 < mawk> Steffanx 
2020-09-30T19:17:49 < mawk> company forgot to renew contract
2020-09-30T19:17:53 < mawk> my contract I mean
2020-09-30T19:17:55 < mawk> so according to dutch labor law, if I show up to work one day after my contract ends, it's automatically commuted to a permanent contract
2020-09-30T19:17:57 < mawk> lol
2020-09-30T19:17:59 < mawk> then if they want to fire me I have severance pay for breaking the permanent contract
2020-09-30T19:18:16 < Steffanx> something like that yes
2020-09-30T19:18:30 < mawk> I love labor law
2020-09-30T19:18:45 < mawk> especially on the right side of the courtroom
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2020-09-30T19:22:27 < jadew> I don't know how that happens, but whenever I pick up a screw from some american made crap, that screw seems to be unidentifiable
2020-09-30T19:22:55 < jadew> 1.25 mm pitch, 3.5 mm diameter
2020-09-30T19:23:17 < mawk> try in inches
2020-09-30T19:23:24 < jadew> I did
2020-09-30T19:23:40 < jadew> can't find anything that matches
2020-09-30T19:25:29 < karlp> hrm, trying to write a float to trace is getting squashed on receive somewhere, boo.
2020-09-30T19:26:38 < mawk> multiply by 100000, write as int
2020-09-30T19:28:29 < karlp> no. whole point is to not do anything on the target.
2020-09-30T19:28:36 < karlp> I just want my 32bit write to come out the far side properly.
2020-09-30T19:29:04 < jadew> I found it, #6-20
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2020-09-30T19:30:42 < jadew> which isn't in any of the charts I saw, but #6 = 3.5 major diameter and 20 is ~1.25 pitch
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2020-09-30T19:41:33 < karlp> ok, fixed my side, can see the real float in the trace output, orbuculum decoder is wrong. bah.
2020-09-30T19:49:42 < Steffanx> but its open sores so you can fix it
2020-09-30T19:49:50 < Steffanx> power to the people.
2020-09-30T19:50:54 < mawk> is putin waging a proxy with turkey in armenia?
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2020-09-30T20:01:10 < jpa-> karlp: yeah, orbuculum doesn't really handle floating point formatting, as it just puts the 32-bit integer as an argument to printf(); floats would need to be promoted to double somehow for %f to work
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2020-09-30T20:01:46 < jpa-> it would be nice to have something more like python's struct.unpack() that could handle e.g. signed 16-bit integers and stuff like that
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2020-09-30T20:05:51 < mawk> python is always the answer
2020-09-30T20:06:05 < mawk> drugs are too
2020-09-30T20:07:40 < emeb> STM32H730 looks interesting - 550MHz, lotsa RAM, FIR accel, CORDIC processor. $5/qty.
2020-09-30T20:08:03 < mawk> I have a nucleo of H7
2020-09-30T20:08:08 < mawk> for some reason
2020-09-30T20:08:36 < emeb> but which H7 - there are so many now.
2020-09-30T20:09:01 < emeb> and they've been ramping up the max clock rates & features
2020-09-30T20:09:12 < upgrdman> TIL how to get free electricity https://www.reddit.com/r/WTF/comments/j2fmwp/throwing_things_at_a_live_electric_line/
2020-09-30T20:09:49 < jpa-> emeb: 176k of RAM is not that much compared to others in H7 series :)
2020-09-30T20:09:50 < mawk> H731 I think?
2020-09-30T20:09:55 < mawk> from memory
2020-09-30T20:09:57 < mawk> 741
2020-09-30T20:10:44 < jpa-> hmm, or is digikey summary just wrong
2020-09-30T20:10:51 < jpa-> st site says 564kB
2020-09-30T20:11:23 < mawk> digikey cannot be wrong what are you saying
2020-09-30T20:11:38 < emeb> jpa-: yeah - over 1/2 meg is what I saw on Mouser
2020-09-30T20:12:08 < emeb> main disadvantage of these "value line" H7 parts is the small flash.
2020-09-30T20:12:34 < karlp> jpa-: https://github.com/orbcode/orbuculum/pull/37
2020-09-30T20:12:39 < emeb> I guess they want you to XIP from QSPI
2020-09-30T20:13:05 < karlp> jpa-: I'm actually looking at just switching to http://openocd.zylin.com/#/c/5345/8 which replaces the orbuculum "server" which is really just the stream repeater,
2020-09-30T20:13:22 < karlp> and then just yes, fuck it, move to a python or something rational for the consumers
2020-09-30T20:13:47 < karlp> can still have orbtop on it's own
2020-09-30T20:14:42 < karlp> seeing the code just do do, "hahha, pritnf(you_format_string, u32)" was not inspiring...
2020-09-30T20:17:23 < jpa-> :)
2020-09-30T20:17:45 < jpa-> i'm able to get things done with orbuculum, so i'm happy with it
2020-09-30T20:29:20 < steverrrr> wow neat, I gotta check that out.  Didn't know SWO had a use
2020-09-30T20:39:46 < aandrew> lol
2020-09-30T20:39:51 < aandrew> "Didn't know SWO had a use"
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2020-09-30T21:07:37 < zyp> I've actually yet to use SWO
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2020-09-30T21:41:10 < aandrew> wait until you discover orbuculum
2020-09-30T21:41:19 < aandrew> changed my world, so nice
2020-09-30T21:48:10 < Cracki> jadew, they calculate with threads per inch. #6 is just a definition in a table, 20 tpi is 0.05" is 1.27mm
2020-09-30T21:49:04 < Cracki> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Unified_Thread_Standard
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2020-09-30T22:07:40 < jadew> Cracki, yeah, I didn't really find it, I just put those two together and got some results, but I couldn't find one with the correct shape
2020-09-30T22:07:56 < jadew> mouser, farnell and TME don't have any #6-20
2020-09-30T22:08:19 < Cracki> amazon lists them as sheet metal screws
2020-09-30T22:08:24 < Cracki> self drilling
2020-09-30T22:08:40 < jadew> self tapping
2020-09-30T22:08:48 < Cracki> it's a chinese listing :>
2020-09-30T22:09:04 < Cracki> and if you turn it too far, you do drill
2020-09-30T22:09:26 < jadew> yeah, there could be self drilling ones, which would be pointy
2020-09-30T22:09:52 < Cracki> some of them have an actual drill shaped tip. I think those do drill the right diameter instead of just forcing the sheet metal apart
2020-09-30T22:10:27 < Cracki> oh murica, everything is upside down
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2020-09-30T22:30:44 < PaulFertser> "Do not use the logo to make fun of Arm or portray Arm in a negative way."
2020-09-30T22:30:53 < Cracki> lol
2020-09-30T22:31:16 < Cracki> ok then, make a "LEG" logo. people will understand.
2020-09-30T22:31:31 < PaulFertser> They later provides some specific examples of incorrect usage but not a single one matching that rule, unfortunately.
2020-09-30T22:31:49 < PaulFertser> Current Arm logo is "arm" so it should be "leg".
2020-09-30T22:38:35 < PaulFertser> "Arm's trademarks are among the company's most valuable intellectual property assets."
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2020-09-30T22:51:33 < Cracki> >Do not create the Arm logo in the wrong font  
2020-09-30T22:51:50 < Cracki> wats the right font, "font" has _one_ occurrence on that page
2020-09-30T22:52:51 < Cracki> near neither "type" nor "face" is any mention of any known typeface or font family or whatever the fuck is the politically correct term for that shit
2020-09-30T22:53:48 < PaulFertser> Haha
2020-09-30T22:54:01 < Cracki> > Gill Sans Bold 
2020-09-30T22:54:05 < Cracki> says google on fontmeme.com
2020-09-30T22:54:28 < Cracki> arm page doesn't mention gill anywhere
2020-09-30T22:54:43 < Cracki> they deserve a nuke through the mail slot
2020-09-30T22:55:04 < PaulFertser> BrainDamage: hey! I missed you. Hope you're fine now and new lockdown measures are not too harsh.
2020-09-30T22:56:09 < Cracki> BBC's logo has the same font. must be some british nationalist thing.
2020-09-30T22:56:20 < Cracki> AMD too lol https://fontmeme.com/famous-logos-created-with-gill-sans-font/
2020-09-30T23:04:08 < PaulFertser> mawk: I think DE=KC because CM=DM, KCM=MDE, CKM=MED -> equal triangles
2020-09-30T23:04:37 < PaulFertser> mawk: you found a nicer way to solve it indeed
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2020-09-30T23:40:33 < upgrdman> what refdes should a thermostat have?!
2020-09-30T23:41:07 < antto> U? ;P~
2020-09-30T23:41:20 < antto> dafuq is a thermostat even
2020-09-30T23:42:27 < Ultrasauce> electrically it's just a spst switch so maybe just S
2020-09-30T23:43:23 < antto> ah, a thermophobic switch
2020-09-30T23:44:11 < Ultrasauce> bimetallic striptease
2020-09-30T23:44:28 < Steffanx>  antto #avrs misses you
2020-09-30T23:44:36 < antto> i've studdied these at $school
2020-09-30T23:44:59 < antto> they used metalz with different thermal eggspansion properties, so they bend in particular way
2020-09-30T23:45:44 < Ultrasauce> and old ones are a convenient source of mercury
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2020-09-30T23:46:40 < antto> aww
2020-09-30T23:46:53 < antto> * initialize kaki0
2020-09-30T23:47:34  * kaki0 already running
2020-09-30T23:47:53 < antto> * kaki0 armed and ready for operation
2020-09-30T23:49:40  * kaki0 loading irc chat&spam module
2020-09-30T23:50:19 < antto> <kaki0_presence_intensifies.jpg>
2020-09-30T23:50:26 < Steffanx> no music module?
2020-09-30T23:51:08 < kaki0> yes
2020-09-30T23:51:11 < Cracki> wow such present
2020-09-30T23:51:30 < Ultrasauce> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qg57Gw2Y0Uo music module activated
--- Log closed Thu Oct 01 00:00:59 2020