--- Log opened Thu Oct 01 00:00:59 2020
2020-10-01T00:10:53 < kaki0> ambient, psubient, downtempo
2020-10-01T00:10:58 < kaki0> psybient
2020-10-01T00:11:09 < kaki0> I have never heard about "psybient"
2020-10-01T00:11:24 < karlp> jpa-: yah, I've been super happy with it too,it's b een more robust than my first hacked up python shits, and more functional than some other c lib stuff I'd used,
2020-10-01T00:11:33 < karlp> but when it runs out of steam, it _runs out_
2020-10-01T00:11:59 < Ultrasauce> kaki0: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J2WP-55FLNk
2020-10-01T00:12:14 < Ultrasauce> genre benchmark
2020-10-01T00:12:55 < karlp> jpa-: honestly, I think working out a sane way of doing tthe orbcat -c "fmt string shits" is the hardest thing to imrpove on :)
2020-10-01T00:12:56 < kaki0> shpongle hmm yes
2020-10-01T00:14:48 < kaki0> that album is way older than 2015
2020-10-01T00:14:51 < zyp> aandrew, part of the reason I haven't done SWO yet is because my last couple of projects have been on M0+ which doesn't do SWO
2020-10-01T00:15:56 < karlp> part of thte reason I "just say no" to m0 ;)
2020-10-01T00:16:01 < kaki0> Ultrasauce: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AhONp_VdCXE song name "lemon kush" popped up in my mind
2020-10-01T00:16:24 < Ultrasauce> oh yeah ozric tentacles are great
2020-10-01T00:17:45 < zyp> karlp, I don't see lack of SWO as the same sort of dealbreaker as the lack of SCB_VTOR
2020-10-01T00:18:29 < karlp> I've not seen enough _gain_ from m0 parts for _my projects_ to both with them anyway.
2020-10-01T00:18:51 < karlp> I'm mor elikely to replace the m3 with an m4f, or drop it and go to linux...
2020-10-01T00:18:54 < karlp> but we'll see :)
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2020-10-01T00:21:14 < zyp> it's not about gain, it's not like the M0/M0+ parts are full of features that you can't get in the larger parts
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2020-10-01T00:22:03 < zyp> I think maybe g0 is the only part you can get with two UCPD instances, but apart from that I can't think of anything
2020-10-01T00:22:16 < zyp> it's all about cost
2020-10-01T00:24:55 < qyx> re ethernet switch/hub, have you seen anything comparable to the one you have?
2020-10-01T00:25:00 < zyp> the l052 I got on one of my production boards costs less than half of what the f303 I got on the other production board costs
2020-10-01T00:25:09 < zyp> qyx, comparable in what sense?
2020-10-01T00:25:21 < qyx> basically fuk switching, I need a dumb hub
2020-10-01T00:25:28 < qyx> a 3 port one
2020-10-01T00:25:29 < zyp> no, nothing
2020-10-01T00:25:31 < qyx> I cannot find anything
2020-10-01T00:25:59 < zyp> ksz8893 is the only one I've found and that's what I can't get to work properly so I wouldn't recommend that
2020-10-01T00:26:17 < zyp> (although it'd be interesting to hear how it works in a different design)
2020-10-01T00:27:02 < qyx> I am curious if it is important at all to avoid switches
2020-10-01T00:27:12 < qyx> I would like to use PtP or something similar to sync multiple sensors
2020-10-01T00:27:16 < qyx> to about 100us
2020-10-01T00:27:28 < kaki0> Ultrasauce: I don't really know the genre anymore.. is there anything new in contrast to these totems from mid 2000s?
2020-10-01T00:27:37 < zyp> qyx, just use ptp-aware switches?
2020-10-01T00:28:28 < zyp> if I understand it correctly, ptp-aware switches will modify the timestamps to compensate for the switch delay
2020-10-01T00:28:30 < kaki0> I think I'm into classical music now
2020-10-01T00:28:42 < qyx> I fear I woulnd't be able to get such accuracy after ~10 switches
2020-10-01T00:30:46 < zyp> uh
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2020-10-01T00:32:43 < qyx> and what about ethercat!
2020-10-01T00:33:03 < zyp> at 100mbit, a bit time is 10ns, so 100us is 10000 bit times
2020-10-01T00:33:04 < qyx> no shit, 330 pages
2020-10-01T00:33:16 < Ultrasauce> kaki0: yeah idk about much newer good downtempo psy stuff
2020-10-01T00:33:16 < qyx> https://www.microchip.com/wwwproducts/en/LAN9252
2020-10-01T00:33:32 < Ultrasauce> i have probably spammed this here already but https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MLE7Cd10MyI is my favourite album rn
2020-10-01T00:33:49 < zyp> I'd expect ptp to get a better accuracy than 10000 bit times, even passing through ten ptp-aware switches
2020-10-01T00:37:11 < zyp> microchip got KSZ8463, KSZ8563, KSZ9563, LAN9353, LAN9354, LAN9355, plus a couple of variants that don't do RMII
2020-10-01T00:37:53 < qyx> I am looking at this one https://www.microchip.com/wwwproducts/en/LAN9354
2020-10-01T00:38:07 < qyx> but it doesn't seem to be PtP aware in a way you say
2020-10-01T00:38:25 < qyx> yeah, it has a PtP, but not the compensation thing
2020-10-01T00:38:32 < qyx> I did see it in some other part though
2020-10-01T00:38:36 < zyp> I'm about to look at KSZ8463 datasheet
2020-10-01T00:38:57 < zyp> first page says «Port 1 and Port 2 MACs Programmable as Either E2E or P2P Transparent Clock (TC) Ports for 1588 Support», whatever that means
2020-10-01T00:40:21 < qyx> yes, this one is probably ok
2020-10-01T00:40:23 < zyp> «The KSZ8463 devices incorporate the IEEE 1588v2 protocol. Sub-microsecond synchronization is available via the use of hardware-based time-stamping and transparent clocks making it the ideal solution for time synchronized Layer 2 communication in critical industrial applications.»
2020-10-01T00:40:35 < qyx> first I need to learn something about ptP
2020-10-01T00:40:49 < zyp> so if one switch gets you sub-microsecond accuracy, ten switches should get you better than 10us accuracy
2020-10-01T00:41:46 < zyp> and yeah, I don't know much about ptp either, but my understanding is that it relies on hardware timestamping synced to the bit timing on the frame on the wire
2020-10-01T00:43:03 < zyp> so I figure if a switch knows the exact bit times the frame is arriving on one port and leaving on another, it can just rewrite the timestamp to add the difference
2020-10-01T00:44:03 < qyx> 264mW with all ports up, no traffic
2020-10-01T00:44:35 < qyx> I guess I can just put a F7 inside without much worrying
2020-10-01T00:50:32 < qyx> also I may forget any temp measurement in this case
2020-10-01T00:51:29 < zyp> hmm, looks like ptp is more complicated than I were imagining, but either way it should be able to compensate out the switch latency
2020-10-01T00:53:35 < aandrew> PTP is awesome
2020-10-01T00:54:32 < aandrew> I was down in the microsecond range without much effort, getting much better required better PHY and STM32 clocks
2020-10-01T00:55:31 < aandrew> if any of those switches is store and forward you can forget it
2020-10-01T00:55:59 < zyp> we're talking ptp-aware switches
2020-10-01T00:56:47 < aandrew> that introduced a different kind of fun; I didn't have any but when your switches are capable of replacing the PTP timestamp in the 1588 packets you now need yoru switches to be carefully designed as well
2020-10-01T00:58:06 < zyp> sure, but since this is one of those RMII plus two PHY port switch chips, it'll run from the same RMII REF_CLK as the MAC in the MCU
2020-10-01T00:58:44 < zyp> so it should be just as accurate as the MCU
2020-10-01T00:59:07 < qyx> i'll probably feed both with a tcxo
2020-10-01T00:59:42 < qyx> or only the stm32 and output refclk on mco or whatever
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2020-10-01T01:07:07 < zyp> qyx, if you'd like a dumb hub instead, you can have a copy of my fpga implementation once I make it :p
2020-10-01T01:08:33 < qyx> I'll probably go with a CAN version first
2020-10-01T01:08:50 < qyx> although idk how will it behave over 400m
2020-10-01T01:09:53 < zyp> you could do FPGA + two of those -T1L phys
2020-10-01T01:11:58 < qyx> hm, one sensor requires about 40kbit/s of CAN BW
2020-10-01T01:13:38 < qyx> I hate EE, a ton of different problems
2020-10-01T01:13:41 < qyx> protos not working
2020-10-01T01:13:44 < qyx> code bugged
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2020-10-01T01:19:18 < Steffanx> Time to retire qyx
2020-10-01T01:25:03 < BrainDamage> PaulFertser: thanks, no, the rules got relaxed for a while, even if now they are tightening again
2020-10-01T01:28:21 < kaki0> qyx: it's normal
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2020-10-01T01:29:46 < kaki0> "this thing is just fuck I hate it" means that you are actually doing something
2020-10-01T01:29:52 < kaki0> *fucked
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2020-10-01T01:32:51 < kaki0> opposite to "walk in the park"
2020-10-01T01:35:29 < Cracki> it could mean someone else hasn't done a good job
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2020-10-01T02:34:26 < Laurenceb> presenting the US presidential debate, aka dumb v dumber
2020-10-01T02:35:41 < aandrew> that actually would have been an awesome overlay
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2020-10-01T02:37:00 < antto> when is Wanye Kest gonna rap-batt0l teh otherz?
2020-10-01T02:37:09 < antto> i'd watch that
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2020-10-01T03:14:07  * Laurenceb had a silly idea
2020-10-01T03:14:20 < Laurenceb> put starlink terminals on loon
2020-10-01T03:15:34 < Laurenceb> no need for the stupid expensive and impractical optical backhaul system they cant make work
2020-10-01T03:18:39 < Laurenceb> and no need for expensive starlink terminals for the users
2020-10-01T03:19:49 < Cracki> wut
2020-10-01T03:20:33 < Cracki> you want people to talk to a terminal wirelessly, instead of having their own terminals?
2020-10-01T03:20:40 < Cracki> I think that's gonna happen for some areas
2020-10-01T03:22:40 < Laurenceb> use 4G mobile or whatever
2020-10-01T03:24:04 < sync> zyp: what about KSZ8873RLL?
2020-10-01T03:26:27 < Laurenceb> wew
2020-10-01T03:26:28 < Laurenceb> https://twitter.com/NTDEV_
2020-10-01T03:26:33 < Laurenceb> windozer is opensores
2020-10-01T03:27:54 < Cracki> yay copyright strikes for *SHOWING* parts of the source and compiling them on video
2020-10-01T03:28:45 < Laurenceb> https://twitter.com/NTDEV_/status/1309899440292081664
2020-10-01T03:29:45 < Cracki> remember encarta
2020-10-01T03:30:28 < Cracki> they played with clean flat-"shaded" ui long ago
2020-10-01T03:30:33 < Laurenceb> lol
2020-10-01T03:31:30 < Cracki> google for "encarta 2000" screenshots, then google for "sub7 trojan"
2020-10-01T03:33:37 < Cracki> I want the 9x windows logo back
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2020-10-01T09:07:45 < qyx> zyp: another topic for long winter evenings: how to make a proper PoE sink/source on the mentioned 3 port switch to be able to power daisy chained sensors
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2020-10-01T10:52:04 < jadew> https://www.reddit.com/r/WTF/comments/cdjh0n/annoyed_by_loud_music_man_uses_drone_to_hit/
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2020-10-01T10:57:02 < jadew> https://imgur.com/12aVJtu
2020-10-01T10:58:28 < zyp> qyx, full PoE logic sounds like overengineering, just hook the center taps on both ports together so that it'll pass right through unconditionally
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2020-10-01T12:06:39 < zyp> if I want to hack up some shit to read 16 load cells and don't want to make a custom pcb for it, what do I do?
2020-10-01T12:08:43 < jpa-> zyp: put a bunch of these i2c modules?  
2020-10-01T12:08:43 < jpa-> https://www.ebay.com/itm/Load-Cell-Weight-Sensor-20KG-Portable-Scale-HX711-Weighing-Sensors-Ad-Module-I2/392608061592?_trkparms=ispr%3D1&hash=item5b69439898:g:L-4AAOSwXtRZb6Oq&enc=AQAFAAACYBaobrjLl8XobRIiIML1V4Imu%2Fn%2BzU5L90Z278x5ickkyMJZWL%2BqFSgQ3TOOe%2FNr7qsg5i%2FdFCx5lvt7PVg82ilzuvxPX%2Bl6LiagcUvMCIlkveFsSnvCccf2d0rrgK9H%2Bi6NPz8Vg90%2FRctU9tcpfWYj9uvPYsIfgu3nL6mqkjff%2Fbr2eSbiTVpIvG4GT1vAFdAArtjwrgtXrf
2020-10-01T12:08:43 < jpa-> %2BAZe5%2FpnNGYdFg0N8ciZf8p3Ek0GGUI0X8FGuFZYcTTubxhQoVaN5i7XA7fZN4mnXPYxtYbJnbUWOhyE8DTpGO8NzbjoHmYRkdZ5CZETKz85yolD7%2B17l6HQ%2FbUe4%2FTnQ06mJpm2UNn%2BB8MSUlrcnle1fc86KtgUkhD6mRD9TUFQWbX7V7h1fzcynargHWrOvVfpyX%2B%2B6iKz8IO5OOqIZD5Cc0GVObmLJVhtzz5XlJWLwHoH3kSLAxaX74dVrXmIMyrnh2h9g3IeMjtX3fnv2%2FIFmnso7jQONFWhkFAcb5XD%2BLTcdMhwrWhzcY9RYZmCNIq896J4BUBOdo8nXQW%2BLiOBQ1lYHpqAUOnRSBkaoKhfBor%2F7wCeSXcrQHzeZZbiYdpz
2020-10-01T12:08:43 < jpa-> zNXnKq%2BrmQpSVfgmIN6nb0UgOa80sw4d8rxqIkV8TVoMdyzDQ3eEPY4dxgIC4ThtScT92MhHBzwaVmDx%2By2vvTgkxSKudr25WJ78CnHgNdC3%2BP%2BSJ72XR8d0EprE47lVpupXGxPfkeIOEVUYJsKkLflyayx1uajQgQdWaZIxZYGiFfF9arSkGXmaLBeNKbz65cvbIEyMXB7ur5PknP4htzFvo8&checksum=3926080615920e91263ebd10477691343a3cb05657dd
2020-10-01T12:08:59 < jpa-> uh :D
2020-10-01T12:09:50 < zyp> are they i2c? I think I looked at some hx711 shit yesterday
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2020-10-01T12:12:42 < jpa-> ah, apparently not
2020-10-01T12:12:50 < zyp> not i2c, datasheet suggest some custom unadressed stuff
2020-10-01T12:13:06 < jpa-> would need gpio per chip
2020-10-01T12:13:07 < zyp> dealing with 16 of those doesn't seem fun
2020-10-01T12:13:46 < zyp> but yeah, ideally I'd like something like that with i2c and the possibility to select at least 16 different addrs
2020-10-01T12:14:54 < zyp> but I haven't found anything, so I suspect I'll instead go with a stm32 board with 16 available ADC inputs, and 16 instrumentation amps
2020-10-01T12:15:42 < zyp> alternatively 16 spi modules could work as well
2020-10-01T12:16:08 < jpa-> wouldn't 16 spi modules be just as annoying to interface as 16 units of HX711
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2020-10-01T12:16:55 < jpa-> (or 8 units of HX711, considering each can read two load cells)
2020-10-01T12:16:56 < zyp> not firmware wise, bitbanging is more annoying than spi
2020-10-01T12:22:28 < zyp> and apparently you can't use the same gain on both channels
2020-10-01T12:24:43 < jpa-> heh, yeah, silly
2020-10-01T12:25:54 < zyp> hmm, wouldn't be too hard to bitbang though
2020-10-01T12:26:16 < zyp> could run a common clock
2020-10-01T12:26:44 < jpa-> ADS1115 modules are pretty common, but they lack reference voltage output for excitation voltage and only allow 4 different I2C addresses
2020-10-01T12:27:59 < zyp> do they have enough gain?
2020-10-01T12:28:40 < jpa-> 16x (+-0.256V FS)
2020-10-01T12:29:36 < zyp> might be a bit low, but I don't know exactly which load cells customer wants to use
2020-10-01T12:31:57 < zyp> hey, wait, these might be nice: https://www.seeedstudio.com/Grove-ADC-for-Load-Cell-HX711-p-4361.html
2020-10-01T12:32:16 < zyp> if they also happen to have some board with a stm32 and 16 grove connectors :p
2020-10-01T12:55:34 < zyp> that doesn't seem to be the case, but it looks like this shit might fit on a nucleo-144
2020-10-01T12:57:16 < zyp> possibly not a perfect fit, but there seems to be 19 unique pairs, so if 16 of those are usable, that's good enough for me
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2020-10-01T14:08:45 < Steffanx> 16 load cells.. 
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2020-10-01T14:39:09 < zyp> yes
2020-10-01T14:39:58 < zyp> apparently they're going to be placed in a 4x4 grid to measure some sort of weight distribution or something
2020-10-01T15:08:50 < Cracki> wasn't the hx711 some weird protocol...
2020-10-01T15:09:04 < Cracki> I don't remember them being addressable so you'll have to multiplex
2020-10-01T15:14:03 < zyp> with the grove shield they'll be hooked to two gpios each, so I can just bitbang them all
2020-10-01T15:14:37 < zyp> I figure I can just run it from a timer interrupt with a simple FSM
2020-10-01T15:15:41 < zyp> set all clocks high on one interrupt, set all clocks low on the next, sample all data lines and shift them into buffers
2020-10-01T15:15:58 < zyp> or if I don't need to run them all in parallel just do one at a time
2020-10-01T15:16:53 < zyp> idk what sample rate customer needs/expects, for this mockup thing it's just gonna be visualized with a bar plot or something
2020-10-01T15:19:20 < Cracki> you can probably share the clocks and eat 16 parallel data lines
2020-10-01T15:19:24 < Cracki> yeah
2020-10-01T15:21:36 < zyp> yes, but I don't wanna fuck around with wiring, easier to just plop the grove arduino shield on a nucleo and get all the clocks on 16 independent pins
2020-10-01T15:22:21 < zyp> if I were making hardware, I'd do it smarter, but that's what I'm avoiding
2020-10-01T15:22:49 < Cracki> lol I didn't think there'd be a "grove shield" with that many connectors _and_ be arduino compatible
2020-10-01T15:23:44 < Cracki> ah, that looks like it's not all general
2020-10-01T15:23:57 < Cracki> something like this? https://www.seeedstudio.com/Base-Shield-V2.html
2020-10-01T15:25:21 < Cracki> 4x i2c likely one or two busses. 4x analog likely using the analog-only pins first, etc
2020-10-01T15:27:38 < zyp> no, not that one
2020-10-01T15:28:13 < zyp> this one: https://www.seeedstudio.com/Grove-Mega-Shield-v1-2.html
2020-10-01T15:28:18 < zyp> thought I linked it already
2020-10-01T15:29:19 < zyp> apart from the three i2c connectors, all connectors have two dedicated IOs
2020-10-01T15:29:29 < Cracki> nice
2020-10-01T15:30:11 < zyp> so 19 usable, but then it's not a perfect fit for the nucleo, a couple of pins don't match the sockets
2020-10-01T15:30:25 < zyp> but that doesn't matter as long as I get 16
2020-10-01T15:31:11 < zyp> should be workable, and I don't see it getting simpler than that without making a custom pcb
2020-10-01T15:35:42 < Steffanx> Time for some AD8293G160 on a board and 16 adc channels 
2020-10-01T15:36:26 < Steffanx> We did that for a load cell board and its gamer approved.
2020-10-01T15:36:34 < Steffanx> Ok not 16  but..
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2020-10-01T17:13:17 < zyp> Steffanx, yeah, something like that could also work
2020-10-01T17:17:55 < Cracki> :D https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ThGcKwwFlaQ
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2020-10-01T17:32:07 < zyp> nice
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2020-10-01T17:46:27 < karlp> that bridge got raised a eyar or two ago right?
2020-10-01T17:46:44 < karlp> yar, 12"4 now, a little better
2020-10-01T17:47:43 < karlp> neat, they have height warnings and red lights now too
2020-10-01T17:47:52 < karlp> the gift that keeps on giving
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2020-10-01T18:05:10 < qyx> zyp: ads1234
2020-10-01T18:06:46 < zyp> yeah, four of them would probably be a good solution on a custom pcb
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2020-10-01T18:53:32 < Steffanx> Ah ads1234 is even better
2020-10-01T18:55:53 < jpa-> zyp: https://de.aliexpress.com/item/4001041762857.html  now with through-hole resistors
2020-10-01T18:58:42 < zyp> awesome
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2020-10-01T19:10:49 < karlp> is that a raw ti eval board?
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2020-10-01T20:42:23 < karlp> heh, I love finding a sneaky extern on line 400 in the middle of a .c file.
2020-10-01T20:42:26 < karlp> awesome.
2020-10-01T20:57:45 < Steffanx> :)
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2020-10-01T23:12:33 < bitmask> new printer is sooooooooo quiet
2020-10-01T23:12:38 < Steffanx> hmmm
2020-10-01T23:12:39 < bitmask> these drivers are incredible
2020-10-01T23:13:01 < bitmask> my z axis is binding though, gotta realign it
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2020-10-01T23:13:21 < bitmask> or I guess align it since I apparently didnt do so in the first place
2020-10-01T23:14:22 < zyp> that trinamic stuff?
2020-10-01T23:14:26 < bitmask> yea
2020-10-01T23:14:36 < zyp> they seem nice
2020-10-01T23:15:07 < bitmask> i dont know if the mgn12 rails are quieter too or just the tmc drivers
2020-10-01T23:15:58 < bitmask> https://imgur.com/a/ppeecTQ
2020-10-01T23:16:19 < bitmask> gotta replace the blue extenders with black
2020-10-01T23:16:40 < bitmask> and print some more red stuffs
2020-10-01T23:17:02 < Cracki> say what drivers are those
2020-10-01T23:17:13 < bitmask> uhh one sec i forget the model
2020-10-01T23:17:20 < bitmask> its the duet2 wifi (clone)
2020-10-01T23:17:29 < Cracki> they have a bunch, the "silent stepsticks" could be 2130 or 22something
2020-10-01T23:17:37 < bitmask> tmc2660
2020-10-01T23:17:41 < Cracki> thx
2020-10-01T23:18:28 < bitmask> i dont think these even have the quietest mode available
2020-10-01T23:19:03 < zyp> I think maybe those were the ones that were considered the shit last I looked
2020-10-01T23:19:09 < bitmask> stealchop or whatever
2020-10-01T23:19:18 < zyp> but that was a few years ago, so I guess stuff might have improved further since
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2020-10-01T23:19:32 < Cracki> ah https://www.trinamic.com/technology/motor-control-technology/chopper-modes/
2020-10-01T23:19:38 < bitmask> yea the board I got is pretty old but still considered one of the best
2020-10-01T23:19:48 < Cracki> 2660 doesn't list any stealth
2020-10-01T23:20:01 < Cracki> trinamic is good shit either way
2020-10-01T23:20:43 < qyx> re accelerometers: https://i.imgur.com/sIVOAIi.png
2020-10-01T23:20:44 < bitmask> yea thats what i was saying, these dont have it, but it doesnt even matter
2020-10-01T23:21:08 < bitmask> i am curious what it will sound like during an actual print though
2020-10-01T23:21:37 < bitmask> im sure it will make a bit more noise, ive only had it move around with the manual controls
2020-10-01T23:23:52 < bitmask> im waiting on a new extruder and also a bearing to get my current extruder operational
2020-10-01T23:26:03 < bitmask> anyone use edx-dl? 
2020-10-01T23:26:12 < Cracki> yt-dl but for edx?
2020-10-01T23:26:17 < Cracki> (nope havn't)
2020-10-01T23:27:08 < bitmask> yea, well it uses yt-dl
2020-10-01T23:27:25 < bitmask> videos are hosted on youtube and edx servers
2020-10-01T23:27:40 < zyp> edx?
2020-10-01T23:27:49 < bitmask> mooc (online courses)
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2020-10-01T23:28:03 < bitmask> edx-dl lets you download them to save the videos/pdfs
2020-10-01T23:28:27 < bitmask> it stopped working and I dont know if its maintained anymore so I forked it and fixed it
2020-10-01T23:28:54 < bitmask> now im making the output nicer and more useful
2020-10-01T23:33:48 < bitmask> what switching regulator would you use for a new project? 3-5A
2020-10-01T23:34:17 < Cracki> input voltage range?
2020-10-01T23:35:01 < bitmask> my main use right now would be 24v down to 12
2020-10-01T23:35:32 < bitmask> but id like to get something I can use for multiple projects
2020-10-01T23:35:54 < qyx> tps54240, but thats only 2.5A
2020-10-01T23:36:21 < bitmask> 2.5 isnt bad
2020-10-01T23:36:27 < zyp> https://github.com/karlp/zypsnips/blob/master/regs-stepdown.txt
2020-10-01T23:37:39 < zyp> hmm, doesn't look like anything fits though
2020-10-01T23:38:24 < bitmask> 54232
2020-10-01T23:39:22 < bitmask> fits but might as well do the 240
2020-10-01T23:40:00 < zyp> what about MPM3530?
2020-10-01T23:40:06 < bitmask> I think i'll do both the 54240 and 54627
2020-10-01T23:40:06 < zyp> or MPM3550E?
2020-10-01T23:44:51 < bitmask> guess I got some reading to do
2020-10-01T23:46:22 < bitmask> what the fuck is lga-18
2020-10-01T23:46:44 < qyx> it is like bga with no balls
2020-10-01T23:46:55 < qyx> or like qfn with pads from the bottom only
2020-10-01T23:47:04 < qyx> (qfn has bottom-edge pads)
2020-10-01T23:47:05 < zyp> yeah, the latter
2020-10-01T23:47:17 < bitmask> im staying away from that, I can do qfn but i dont wanna do something I cant see
2020-10-01T23:48:08 < qyx> doable with hotair and a lot of flux
2020-10-01T23:48:17 < qyx> MEMS are usually LGA
2020-10-01T23:48:54 < zyp> no big difference between qfn and lga really
2020-10-01T23:49:05 < bitmask> you can hand solder qfn
2020-10-01T23:49:10 < bitmask> if you have to
2020-10-01T23:49:25 < bitmask> but more importantly is you can see that its soldered
2020-10-01T23:49:53 < zyp> no big difference there either
2020-10-01T23:50:18 < qyx> I was #$%&% much when doing some 2x2mm 0.4mm pitch LGA12
2020-10-01T23:51:07 < zyp> not like 0.4mm pitch qfn would be any more fun :p
2020-10-01T23:51:18 < Cracki> moar flux for everyone
2020-10-01T23:51:29 < qyx> so if this accel project is successful, I have some more forks for different use cases
2020-10-01T23:51:49 < Cracki> if you work for a company that does any electronics, and it _ever_ has a booth at a job fair or something, hand out syringes of flux
2020-10-01T23:52:10 < qyx> heh
2020-10-01T23:52:15 < bitmask> only qfn I did was this: https://www.mouser.com/ProductDetail/579-UCS1003-2-BP
2020-10-01T23:53:15 < Cracki> I did three max44009 which are 0.65mm pitch but not quad https://datasheets.maximintegrated.com/en/ds/MAX44009.pdf
2020-10-01T23:53:37 < qyx> I use those too on all 1V8 projects https://www.mouser.sk/ProductDetail/Texas-Instruments/TPS6282518DMQR?qs=gTYE2QTfZfQrFyKWPBx0AQ%3D%3D
2020-10-01T23:54:13 < Cracki> still amazed that I got that done without real flux (just a useless flux pen) and no hot air (just tire fire method)
2020-10-01T23:54:44 < Cracki> cute
2020-10-01T23:54:44 < bitmask> i just ordered a bunch of solder/flux,  no-clean stuff is weird
2020-10-01T23:55:43 < bitmask> i got kester 186 and 951 in a squeeze bottle, a noclean flux pen, a no clean flux cleaner pen :P,  and a few kinds of solder
2020-10-01T23:55:58 < Cracki> someone explained the need to clean flux to me recently. it's this: metal is protected by its corrosion layer. flux keeps removing the oxide, which makes it continue to corrode, which eats worse than just leaving the corrosion in peace
2020-10-01T23:56:12 < bitmask> the squeeze bottles make everything so much easier, wish I bought those years ago
2020-10-01T23:56:15 < Cracki> noclean seems either very mild or inactive at normal temps
2020-10-01T23:56:35 < bitmask> no clean makes a lot of noise when soldering
2020-10-01T23:56:42 < Cracki> it needn't
2020-10-01T23:56:55 < Cracki> if it spatters it's low quality or you're going in too hot
2020-10-01T23:57:27 < bitmask> might be too hot, its chipquick and mg chem brands
2020-10-01T23:57:36 < Cracki> comparison of fluxes, he shows how some spatter a lot and some don't at all https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iKDAmY9Rdag
--- Day changed Fri Oct 02 2020
2020-10-02T00:02:18 < bitmask> do you really use that much flux?
2020-10-02T00:02:33 < bitmask> @ 3:58
2020-10-02T00:02:57 < bitmask> maybe its just cause it was zoomed in but it looked like a lot
2020-10-02T00:03:06 < bitmask> yea he loads that shit on
2020-10-02T00:03:12 < qyx> I had the amtech one
2020-10-02T00:03:27 < bitmask> i have a tube of amtech too, not sure if its legit though
2020-10-02T00:03:32 < bitmask> i forget where I got it
2020-10-02T00:05:05 < qyx> not that much,, a bit less, but yeah
2020-10-02T00:05:35 < qyx> 4:22, oh, oh
2020-10-02T00:05:46 < bitmask> ha
2020-10-02T00:09:50 < bitmask> im gonna build one of my ws2812b controller boards just to try the fluxes/solders
2020-10-02T00:13:33 < qyx> Cracki: so whats the result
2020-10-02T00:13:34 < qyx> all good?
2020-10-02T00:13:43 < Cracki> huh?
2020-10-02T00:13:57 < Cracki> video results? I think he identified a few that are just junk
2020-10-02T00:14:15 < Cracki> surprisingly the "fake amtech" seems to ahve been something that works, not just vaseline
2020-10-02T00:14:19 < qyx> I though you know the outcome
2020-10-02T00:14:40 < Cracki> I watched it and tabulated his verdicts with my own notes but cba to call that up
2020-10-02T00:19:39 < bitmask> what temp do you solder generally
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2020-10-02T00:38:52 < Cracki> for the iron I think i switch between ~330-340 and 370 depending on lead or not. that's about the low end of getting the solder to melt. I could probably go higher.
2020-10-02T00:39:42 < Cracki> maybe my iron's temp sensor broke. feels like a few degrees more or less make a lot of diff, but those are ~50K away from the alloy's melting temp
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2020-10-02T02:08:18 < Laurenceb> sir Kier Starme has....
2020-10-02T02:08:38 < Laurenceb> >passed his unconscious bias test
2020-10-02T02:08:46 < Laurenceb> my orbital sides
2020-10-02T02:12:10 < Laurenceb> ywlts mandatory unconscious bias tests
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2020-10-02T02:38:48 < upgrdman> what refdes do you guys use for pots?
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2020-10-02T02:47:16 < dongs> VR?
2020-10-02T02:47:20 < dongs> idk
2020-10-02T02:47:22 < dongs> thats what I used last
2020-10-02T02:47:28 < dongs> for a trimpot thingy
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2020-10-02T06:29:14 < machinehum> hi
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2020-10-02T10:09:57 < jpa-> https://github.com/nanopb/nanopb/issues/589#issuecomment-702565333   "But I changed some other setttings. Than it was possible to compile the whole code without disabling any options."     i guess i don't even want to know what options :)
2020-10-02T10:12:48 < zyp> haha
2020-10-02T10:13:35 < Steffanx> No, thats not how it works jpa- 
2020-10-02T10:13:47 < Steffanx> You should already know what options.
2020-10-02T10:13:56 < zyp> sure it is
2020-10-02T10:14:27 < zyp> if somebody comes with a weird problem and then goes «nvm. I did some random shit and now it works», it's probably better not to worry about it
2020-10-02T10:15:07 < jpa-> if someone was actually paying me, i might even bother to download the IAR evaluation package and try it out :P
2020-10-02T10:15:29 < Steffanx> I can pay you with love.
2020-10-02T10:15:45 < Steffanx> Maybe some COVID-19
2020-10-02T10:16:00 < dongs> you can be like trump
2020-10-02T10:16:18 < Steffanx> Yeah.
2020-10-02T10:16:33 < jpa-> parrot went to covid test, but it was negative
2020-10-02T10:16:42 < zyp> rip trump
2020-10-02T10:18:22 < Steffanx> Good good jpa- . You need someone to drive you around 
2020-10-02T10:18:45 < zyp> what's parrot codename for?
2020-10-02T10:18:58 < Steffanx> His wife.
2020-10-02T10:18:59 < jpa-> for my chauffeur
2020-10-02T10:19:01 < Steffanx> Lol. 
2020-10-02T10:19:16 < Steffanx> Not even sure where it comes from
2020-10-02T10:19:57 < jpa-> from me not having a driver's license and from https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZruaEpeyoG0
2020-10-02T10:20:11 < Steffanx> Ah yes
2020-10-02T10:20:27 < Steffanx> Still no license?
2020-10-02T10:20:45 < Steffanx> I trust you with your car on the lonely finnish roads.
2020-10-02T10:22:23 < zyp> doesn't .fi have that driving and car maintenance education app?
2020-10-02T10:22:38 < zyp> I think it was called «my summer car» or something like that
2020-10-02T10:22:58 < jpa-> zyp: it's actually life education app, not just car stuff
2020-10-02T10:24:00 < jpa-> Steffanx: yeah, haven't found any need for a license; and we drive so little that i'd forget it all anyway
2020-10-02T10:24:53 < Steffanx> But who brings junior to soccer in the winter?
2020-10-02T10:24:56 < zyp> jpa-, but how are you gonna drive over here to come visit then?
2020-10-02T10:24:59 < zyp> it's your turn now
2020-10-02T10:25:43 < jpa-> zyp: bike, probably
2020-10-02T10:25:58 < jpa-> Steffanx: soccer is just 1.5 km away, he can walk or bike
2020-10-02T10:26:03 < zyp> ah, fair
2020-10-02T10:26:08 < jpa-> and besides, the bike trailer works fine in winter also
2020-10-02T10:27:14 < zyp> according to google maps it's only 70 hours on bike
2020-10-02T10:27:54 < jpa-> i could take a ship over the pond
2020-10-02T10:28:04 < zyp> yeah, that's part of it
2020-10-02T10:28:12 < jpa-> :)
2020-10-02T10:29:20 < zyp> https://bin.jvnv.net/file/QKvOV.png
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2020-10-02T10:31:06 < jpa-> you live in home? ;)
2020-10-02T10:31:21 < zyp> yes, don't you?
2020-10-02T10:32:03 < jpa-> oh it's a saved location and not the name of the town :)
2020-10-02T10:39:07 < Steffanx> Only 1363 km. Better get your ebike charged.
2020-10-02T10:39:36 < zyp> maybe bring an extra couple of batteries
2020-10-02T10:40:00 < jpa-> or just sleep at places with electricity :)
2020-10-02T11:20:09 < Steffanx> Can pack a nice battery in your trailer 
2020-10-02T11:43:56 < jadew> https://www.reddit.com/r/ItHadToBeBrazil/comments/j3dk4u/horn_beats_rock/
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2020-10-02T12:02:55 < jadew> https://www.reddit.com/r/ItHadToBeBrazil/comments/irolh4/dont_repeat_it_at_home_kids/
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2020-10-02T15:16:03 < BrainDamage> delicious drama https://joel.net/how-one-guy-ruined-hacktoberfest2020-drama
2020-10-02T15:20:53 < jpa-> i'm kinda surprised i've received none so far
2020-10-02T15:21:58 < zyp> haha, nice
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2020-10-02T16:06:41 < Steffanx> Are you sure jpa- ?
2020-10-02T16:07:03 < Steffanx> Is this a solicitation?
2020-10-02T16:14:52 < jadew> do you guys have decathlon in your countries?
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2020-10-02T16:15:45 < jadew> I just received an order today and the fucks didn't want to bring it to my door, even tho I paid extra for "voluminous package"
2020-10-02T16:16:10 < zyp> new mail order bride?
2020-10-02T16:16:13 < jadew> had to open it in the street and carry it piece by piece
2020-10-02T16:16:31 < jadew> zyp, a 50 kg weight lifting kit, amongst other things
2020-10-02T16:16:54 < jadew> the box of my son's boxing bag came open also :/
2020-10-02T16:17:05 < BrainDamage> I mean, that's the whole point of a lifting kit
2020-10-02T16:17:06 < zyp> you live upstairs in an apartment complex, or something?
2020-10-02T16:17:24 < jadew> BrainDamage, haha, that's what the delivery guy said
2020-10-02T16:17:32 < jadew> zyp, yeah
2020-10-02T16:18:35 < zyp> no hand truck?
2020-10-02T16:19:03 < jadew> zyp, don't know what that is
2020-10-02T16:19:06 < zyp> should make easy work of getting a 50kg box upstairs
2020-10-02T16:19:13 < zyp> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hand_truck
2020-10-02T16:19:23 < jadew> ah, neat
2020-10-02T16:19:34 < jadew> well, it wasn't my responsibility anyway
2020-10-02T16:19:55 < zyp> it was once you had to carry it up piece by piece :p
2020-10-02T16:20:05 < jadew> heh, yeah
2020-10-02T16:21:11 < zyp> I helped a friend move out of a second story apartment last weekend, offered to go get my hand truck to help move the laundry machine and dryer, but he had his own
2020-10-02T16:22:03 < jadew> I should probably get one too, I find myself moving heavy boxes all the time
2020-10-02T16:22:22 < zyp> yeah
2020-10-02T16:22:25 < jadew> recently my wife packed a bunch of books in boxes that are bigger than they should be, for carrying books
2020-10-02T16:22:49 < zyp> I bought it when I were preparing to move, but I've used it a lot since too
2020-10-02T16:23:49 < zyp> e.g. for some of the big rocks I got
2020-10-02T16:24:04 < zyp> it handles a lot more weight than a wheelbarrow
2020-10-02T16:28:17 < jadew> trying to find one, but I don't know what it's called in romanian
2020-10-02T16:32:12 < aandrew> BrainDamage> I mean, that's the whole point of a lifting kit
2020-10-02T16:32:13 < aandrew> ^^
2020-10-02T16:32:20 < aandrew> don't be lazy jadew, buying it isn't the effort, using it is
2020-10-02T16:33:29 < jadew> I'm not lazy, but I can't take a 50 kg box upstairs
2020-10-02T16:33:32 < zyp> jadew, google suggests cărucior de mână, but I have no idea whether that makes sense
2020-10-02T16:33:50 < zyp> google seems to finds some images that makes sense
2020-10-02T16:33:51 < jadew> zyp, it does, I found something similar, carucior de marfa
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2020-10-02T16:35:00 < jadew> https://www.emag.ro/carucior-pentru-marfa-adaptat-pentru-scari-capacitate-de-incarcare-150-kg-tvardy-t00501/pd/DCYBVWBBM/
2020-10-02T16:35:03 < jadew> this one looks fancy
2020-10-02T16:36:58 < jadew> hmm
2020-10-02T16:37:32 < jadew> I wonder if I could use something like that to bring a 150 kg mill to the 3rd floor, where I have my shop
2020-10-02T16:37:53 < jadew> would probably be in pieces
2020-10-02T16:38:04 < jadew> maybe 70 kg max
2020-10-02T16:39:07 < jpa-> no elevator? :D
2020-10-02T16:40:34 < jadew> unfortunately not...
2020-10-02T16:44:10 < aandrew> I'm surprised you don't have a freight elevator in a building where big shit's moving around
2020-10-02T16:44:43 < aandrew> no outside winch either? I've seen old buildings where they have a heavy steel bar projecting out of the buidling with a pully/block and tackle on it
2020-10-02T16:45:07 < jadew> aandrew, not on this part of the building
2020-10-02T16:45:29 < jadew> it used to be offices on that level
2020-10-02T16:45:36 < jadew> now it's just me
2020-10-02T16:46:04 < jadew> and bellow me there are all sorts of metal working/processing businesses
2020-10-02T16:47:16 < aandrew> aha
2020-10-02T16:47:39 < aandrew> if you don't mind my asking, what's yoru workshop area and lease pricing like?
2020-10-02T16:47:55 < jadew> 20 sqm
2020-10-02T16:48:06 < jadew> and I pay like 100 eur/mo, it's very cheap
2020-10-02T16:48:50 < aandrew> that isn't bad at all. do you have your own bathrooms and stuff there or is it shared with other tennants?
2020-10-02T16:49:05 < jadew> it's shared, but I'm the only one there
2020-10-02T16:49:33 < jadew> I assume the lower levels have their own bathrooms too
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2020-10-02T17:08:47 < Cracki> lol the dude who caused the hacktoberfest spam is https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCeVMnSShP_Iviwkknt83cww
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2020-10-02T17:25:16 < Cracki> LOL github enabled a new feature just now to combat the spam: https://twitter.com/github/status/1311772722234560517
2020-10-02T17:25:50 < Cracki> designated... pullrequest repos
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2020-10-02T18:39:44 < zyp> got some interesting contract work and now I'm realizing it'll be the first time I get paid to do embedded linux work (unless I count the time I were working on android)
2020-10-02T18:45:30 < mawk> open a beer to celebrate
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2020-10-02T18:47:31 < BrainDamage> but is it a free beer?
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2020-10-02T19:38:18 < Cracki> dude plays with phosphorus, shows fake vs real UVC light sources. skip to end for the phosphorus https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BT82WJyvvB8
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2020-10-02T20:22:10 < qyx> zyp: welcome to the land of opensores, eternal scrolling lines, not working patches and lack of support
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2020-10-02T20:27:46 < Steffanx> Lol Lol 
2020-10-02T20:35:32 < zyp> yeah, I bet
2020-10-02T20:36:56 < englishman> + eternal scrolling lines - an opensores project.
2020-10-02T20:37:17 < englishman> - eternal scrolling lines
2020-10-02T20:37:21 < englishman> plz accept
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2020-10-02T21:13:53 < upgrdman> anyone know if Eve has a good or bad reputation?
2020-10-02T21:14:22 < upgrdman> they're supposedly dev'ing a 4k144 monitor that sounds perfect... but its crowdfunded so prolly bullshit
2020-10-02T21:16:19 < Steffanx> Already up for a new monitor?
2020-10-02T21:17:33 < upgrdman> those LG monitors i bought looks great... until i turned down my room lights. backlight uniformity was shit (left and right edges signifly darker than center) and IPS glow was really bad. i ended up returning them :(
2020-10-02T21:20:52 < zyp> IPS glow?
2020-10-02T21:21:37 < upgrdman> zyp, when screen is supposed to be black, there's a weird non-unform glow
2020-10-02T21:21:59 < upgrdman> hmm, maybe it's called "backlight bleed" ? i might have mixed up terms
2020-10-02T21:22:39 < upgrdman> my old LG IPS monitor and old Dell IPS monitors (both 4K) have very very little glow/bleed. the new LG monitors had a lot.
2020-10-02T21:24:51 < zyp> ah, I've never noticed that on mine
2020-10-02T21:25:13 < zyp> not that I have 4k monitors
2020-10-02T21:26:43 < upgrdman> i see it on a lot of the newer slim-bezel monitors. never seen it bad on monitor with "thick" (normal) bezels.
2020-10-02T21:26:55 < upgrdman> i wonder if it has to do with the lamination process or something
2020-10-02T21:28:41 < Cracki> why is everyone hyping IPS when it's got glowy corners, or do IPS panels without glowy corners exist
2020-10-02T21:30:06 < Cracki> forums.tomshardware.com distinguishes between "IPS glow" which they all have, and backlight bleed which most DON'T
2020-10-02T21:39:18 < Steffanx> it took me 2 returns to even get two LG displays with the same uniform backlight upgrdman. Each time the left was more red/green than the other
2020-10-02T21:39:28 < Steffanx> *left part of the screen
2020-10-02T21:39:45 < Steffanx> and other = right side
2020-10-02T21:39:47 < Steffanx> lol
2020-10-02T21:44:43 < upgrdman> Cracki, it seems like today a lot of IPS 4K monitors are shit. but ~3 years ago, IPS 4K monitors were excellent
2020-10-02T21:44:52 < Cracki> this is a nice eye test. the 2px grates "light up" when the eye has focuses on them properly http://www.lagom.nl/lcd-test/sharpness.php#sharpness-d.png
2020-10-02T21:45:04 < Cracki> 3 years ago they cost a lot more :>
2020-10-02T21:45:05 < zyp> can't say I notice any glow/unevenness on my Dell U2713H, but maybe I'm just too used to it, idk
2020-10-02T21:45:14 < Cracki> guess they figured out how to drop quality for price
2020-10-02T21:45:25 < zyp> it's also fairly old by now
2020-10-02T21:45:32 < upgrdman> those new LG 4k144 monitors I returns had horrible backlight uniformity and bleed, and the viewing angles were pretty shit. i almost don't believe that they were IPS... i would have guess VA to TN
2020-10-02T21:45:58 < zyp> and I mean, I'd probably take a bad IPS panel over a TN panel any day
2020-10-02T21:46:37 < upgrdman> i really wish we'd get some 27" or 32" 4k OLED panels
2020-10-02T21:46:57 < upgrdman> at 120 or 144hz
2020-10-02T21:47:11 < Steffanx> i dont see myself see 32" soon.. 27" is already huge
2020-10-02T21:47:21 < Steffanx> *see going
2020-10-02T21:47:49 < Cracki> wonky backlight is wonky backlight regardless of panel tech
2020-10-02T21:47:55 < Cracki> they have to cut corners somewhere
2020-10-02T21:48:20 < Cracki> the pixel density is approaching/crossing what makes sense for human eyes
2020-10-02T21:48:28 < Cracki> one arc minute is about what we can distinguish
2020-10-02T21:49:04 < Cracki> for 0.5m distance that's about 0.145mm or 174 dpi
2020-10-02T21:49:34 < upgrdman> i'm curious when we'll be rocking 8k240 12bit monitors
2020-10-02T21:49:52 < Cracki> I prefer the panel to have more diagonal instead. lets me keep my eyes farther away for the same amount of pixels
2020-10-02T21:50:28 < Cracki> real HDR not this bullshit where they use backlight intensity to bracket some range of brightness
2020-10-02T21:51:06 < Cracki> I doubt 240 hz will come. nobody can see that. they'll at most work on backlight so it exposes a millisecond every frame, purely to remove motion blur
2020-10-02T21:52:42 < upgrdman> Cracki, for me, 60hz looks like shit, 120hz looks good, but i'm pretty sure i would be able to notice >120hz (but it would not be night-and-day)
2020-10-02T21:52:48 < Cracki> good crt refresh rates were around 80-120 hz, 144 for shutter applications
2020-10-02T21:53:08 < Cracki> 60 vs 120 in what scenario?
2020-10-02T21:53:18 < zyp> I'm happy with 60 Hz, don't really do much that'd benefit from more
2020-10-02T21:53:22 < Cracki> not writing letters or browsing, eh
2020-10-02T21:53:42 < Cracki> when source code starts flying, I'll consider 120/144
2020-10-02T21:54:13 < upgrdman> i do really wish graphics drivers had a way to fake higher refresh rates. like with a 60hz monitor, have the driver lie and say it's 120hz, and just average each pair of frames. that way you'd get "motion blur" ... they could maybe even use their magical AI/tensor/wtf-ever cores to more efficiently do motion blur
2020-10-02T21:54:35 < Cracki> I'd love to see a difference but that would require me to find a screen that does 120/144 and feeding it video that shows the diff
2020-10-02T21:54:59 < upgrdman> Cracki, even scrolling a pdf or moving your mouse looks so much better at 120hz
2020-10-02T21:55:03 < Cracki> you *want* motion blur? whyyy
2020-10-02T21:55:17 < upgrdman> Cracki, not overly blured... but to simulate extra frames
2020-10-02T21:55:20 < Cracki> because less motion blur at 120 hz
2020-10-02T21:55:54 < upgrdman> e.g. if i have to use a 60hz monitor, i want a "1/60th sec shutter speed" ... or maybe 1/120th to reduce blur, etc.
2020-10-02T21:56:24 < Cracki> the _maximum_ exposure time at 120 hz is 8 ms, vs 16 ms at 60 hz so that cuts motion blur in half
2020-10-02T21:56:39 < Cracki> exposure time/shutter speed, yes
2020-10-02T21:56:50 < upgrdman> i might try implementing in my TelemetryViewer program... render at 2x vsync, and average pairs of frames, with mouse coordinates being interpolated.
2020-10-02T21:56:52 < Cracki> there are screens that run at whatever hz but the backlight only flashes for a few millisecs
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2020-10-02T23:21:11 < antto> it'z friday, tiem fro mzuik! https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7MLQNW_n18I
2020-10-02T23:22:59 < qyx> italian metalz https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SCHrmQlHs3U
2020-10-02T23:24:10 < antto> moi don't parles espanol
2020-10-02T23:24:41 < Steffanx> ñ
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2020-10-02T23:32:06 < Cracki> I don't know if this is funny to anyone else but w/e https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rNSVOUrWQTk
2020-10-02T23:33:25 < Steffanx> i guess not
2020-10-02T23:37:44 < qyx> memset( ( void * ) pucData, ( ( int ) '0' ) + ( int ) xItem, x6ByteLength );
2020-10-02T23:37:47 < qyx> fuking freertos
2020-10-02T23:37:53 < qyx> are they on drugs or what
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2020-10-02T23:43:17 < zyp> yes
2020-10-02T23:43:19 < Cracki> wat is zhat
2020-10-02T23:44:13 < Cracki> "x6ByteLength"
2020-10-02T23:44:20 < Cracki> I hope that's something important and not just "6"
2020-10-02T23:45:29  * qyx trying to implement a data/signal flow graph processing using freertos stream buffers
2020-10-02T23:47:13 < Cracki> uh
2020-10-02T23:47:44 < Cracki> >const size_t x6ByteLength = 6,
2020-10-02T23:47:48 < Cracki> WHAT THE FUCK
2020-10-02T23:48:21 < Cracki> is that some retarded misra compliant code
2020-10-02T23:48:33 < Cracki> or is it really just drugs
2020-10-02T23:49:06 < Cracki> >..., x17ByteLength = 17;
2020-10-02T23:49:53 < qyx> would you like to change the x17ByteLength define to uh.. 15?
2020-10-02T23:50:13 < Cracki> no I think it should be renamed to short/long payload length
2020-10-02T23:50:33 < Cracki> avoiding magic number is NOT done by giving the magic number a name that contains the magic number
2020-10-02T23:50:41 < Cracki> people need to be spanked for this
2020-10-02T23:52:01 < Cracki> at best what they did allows them to easily rename this thing, whereas finding a magic number that's not all that special (6 isn't special) is error prone
2020-10-02T23:53:55 < Cracki> oh, this is merely test code. and the fucking comments talk about those numbers being chosen to exercise some wraparound property of the buffer that happens to be... FIFTY bytes?
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--- Day changed Sat Oct 03 2020
2020-10-03T00:14:12 < Cracki> spergx launch at 1:43 am utc, a gps sat this time
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2020-10-03T00:39:09 < kakideluxe> https://imgur.com/gallery/yebSUqK
2020-10-03T00:40:02 < Cracki> at least wear the mask, that shit isn't healthy to breathe
2020-10-03T00:40:19 < Cracki> doesn't he notice spots on his retina
2020-10-03T00:43:00 < kakideluxe> I saw the shape of arc start in my eyes the next day after welding
2020-10-03T00:43:22 < kakideluxe> when I blinked my eyes there was this starfish ghost image
2020-10-03T00:44:21 < Cracki> oh no windows is threatening me with "countdown to goodness"
2020-10-03T00:45:03 < Cracki> windows needs to learn to apply updates online
2020-10-03T00:49:04 < Steffanx> Mikerowsoft
2020-10-03T00:51:03 < Cracki> Your device will restart to update outside of active hours [ Restart now ] [ OK ]
2020-10-03T00:51:06 < Cracki> how about NOT OK
2020-10-03T00:52:41 < Cracki> I hope the singularity presents itself to us mortals as Clippy
2020-10-03T00:53:24 < kakideluxe> there is win10 hack project cracki
2020-10-03T00:53:28 < kakideluxe> that removes all the shit
2020-10-03T00:53:28 < Cracki> It looks like you're enjoying edgy memes. Would you like to hear a cookie batch joke?
2020-10-03T00:53:48 < Cracki> I don't want to go back to the stone age, I want to GET OUT of the stone age
2020-10-03T00:54:34 < Cracki> systems exist that can swap running code for new code
2020-10-03T00:54:52 < Cracki> given, they're less complex than Windows 10
2020-10-03T00:55:39 < Cracki> they should get on with AI and develop something that can handle swapping kernel/library code and modifying whatever data structures need modifying
2020-10-03T00:56:28 < Cracki> I want AI that can decompile ancient device drivers and write new ones
2020-10-03T00:59:19 < Cracki> best result for "win10 hack project" https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x3824T3eEUo
2020-10-03T00:59:24 < Cracki> sounds totally trustworthy
2020-10-03T00:59:30 < kakideluxe> https://ameliorated.info/
2020-10-03T00:59:37 < Cracki> sounds like a hacktober participant
2020-10-03T01:00:40 < Cracki> hm, how is that thing kept updated/patched?
2020-10-03T01:02:05 < Cracki> nvm, cute but not spending time on that
2020-10-03T01:03:21 < kakideluxe> Cracki: it isn't
2020-10-03T01:03:30 < kakideluxe> unless you do it manually
2020-10-03T01:03:33 < kakideluxe> somehow
2020-10-03T01:03:57 < kakideluxe> not via winupdate though
2020-10-03T01:08:28 < kakideluxe> there is no winupdate!
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2020-10-03T01:22:19 < Laurenceb> at first it was like
2020-10-03T01:22:21 < Laurenceb> Trump 2020
2020-10-03T01:22:25 < Laurenceb> but then it was like
2020-10-03T01:22:31 < Laurenceb> Trump 1946-2020
2020-10-03T01:23:01 < Laurenceb> status: watching TV with popcorn
2020-10-03T01:30:14 < Laurenceb> >testing experimental therapy
2020-10-03T01:30:18 < Laurenceb> >on the president
2020-10-03T01:30:35 < Laurenceb> and I thought Biden was a bit stupid
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2020-10-03T02:05:16 < Cracki> there used to be a replacement for windows update... https://www.wsusoffline.net/
2020-10-03T02:07:32 < Cracki> author appears to be a sysadmin at a german university
2020-10-03T02:07:34 < qyx> "__ARM_FEATURE_MVE" is not defined, evaluates to 0
2020-10-03T02:07:35 < qyx> whats that
2020-10-03T02:07:50 < Cracki> mve helium?
2020-10-03T02:07:52 < Cracki> https://en.wikichip.org/wiki/arm/helium
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2020-10-03T05:18:53 < Cracki> wtf spergx stopped countdown at t-2 seconds??
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2020-10-03T06:16:44 < dongs> yeah
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2020-10-03T06:49:09 < Laurenceb> QANON RISE UP
2020-10-03T06:49:23 < Laurenceb> DEFEND TRUMP FROM LIBTARD VIRUS
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2020-10-03T06:58:08 < Streaker> he'll be fine. they're injecting him with some multiclonal antibody serum made from the blood of aborted babies born to virgin mothers.
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2020-10-03T08:36:51 < boddax> fuksion360 was always run online or there was previously installable version?
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2020-10-03T09:04:43 < jadew> boddax, it was always installable - still is
2020-10-03T09:05:27 < boddax> yes i mean standalone installation without online things
2020-10-03T09:05:40 < jadew> you mean saving shit into the cloud?
2020-10-03T09:05:47 < jadew> I think it was like that from the get-go
2020-10-03T09:06:03 < jadew> you can work fully offline tho
2020-10-03T09:06:22 < jadew> it's just that instead of saving, you have to export
2020-10-03T09:07:07 < jpa-> doesn't it need to call the internet every now and then though?
2020-10-03T09:07:19 < jadew> it does, yeah, to verify the license
2020-10-03T09:08:07 < jadew> I don't like the cloud thing either
2020-10-03T09:08:08 < jpa-> i guess one could use it in a virtual machine that gets reset after every use, and then just export / import files every time
2020-10-03T09:08:23 < jadew> right, that could probably work
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2020-10-03T13:47:51 < boddax> BrainDamage got long vacation
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2020-10-03T14:14:21 < Steffanx> I dont think its a vacation..
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2020-10-03T15:59:11 < PaulFertser> mawk: finally got to read your first proof :) There's an error in the second sentence, \delta is the x coordinate of B, not C. 
2020-10-03T15:59:34 < PaulFertser> mawk: the statement about M coordinates lacks proofs.
2020-10-03T16:00:13 < PaulFertser> mawk: that's a rather interesting way to solve that problem, thank you for sharing!
2020-10-03T16:00:58 < PaulFertser> There's something funny and absurd about it.
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2020-10-03T16:06:55 < Steffanx> hehe, how one problem can keep PaulFertser busy :)
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2020-10-03T16:08:54 < PaulFertser> Steffanx: the way mawk did it on the first attempt is really something, you should read it :)
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2020-10-03T16:14:26 < PaulFertser> I can't even explain it to the kid who showed me the task. 
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2020-10-03T17:34:03 < karlp> what's the actual question, I've only seen the discussion about methods?
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2020-10-03T17:52:05 < Steffanx> karlp:  http://paulfertser.info/geometry_task_page3.pdf (page 3, top one, everything's on the drawing)
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2020-10-03T18:01:22 < dongs> where's mawk's 1st attempt?
2020-10-03T18:01:55 < dongs> is AKM 90degree?
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2020-10-03T18:49:51 < mawk> it's not 90° dongs 
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2020-10-03T18:50:41 < dongs> PaulFertser: is the angle 47.58 or so
2020-10-03T18:51:16 < mawk> the goal is to find x, not the angle
2020-10-03T18:51:20 < dongs> o rite
2020-10-03T18:51:23 < dongs> 8?
2020-10-03T18:51:25 < mawk> yes
2020-10-03T18:52:28 < mawk> my attempt was this dongs https://maths.serveur.io/6YF5B2nT
2020-10-03T18:52:47 < mawk> yes it's δ is the x coordinate of B indeed PaulFertser 
2020-10-03T18:52:48 < dongs> jesus fucking christ
2020-10-03T18:52:53 < Steffanx> Time to draw your other solution mawk
2020-10-03T18:52:54 < dongs> you lost me like
2020-10-03T18:52:58 < dongs> 2 lines in
2020-10-03T18:53:04 < mawk> lol
2020-10-03T18:53:31 < mawk> it was the simpler solution I could think of
2020-10-03T18:53:35 < mawk> then I found a geometric way to do it
2020-10-03T18:53:44 < dongs> https://i.imgur.com/92rCNB2.png i just threw the shit in solidcocks
2020-10-03T18:53:58 < dongs> and locked in known dimensions
2020-10-03T18:54:37 < mawk> lol
2020-10-03T18:55:07 < mawk> to justify M PaulFertser well the whole thing is a parallelogram
2020-10-03T18:56:40 < mawk> or if you want, call E the projection of C on (AD), F the projection of M on (AD), then triangle DMF and DCE are similar
2020-10-03T18:56:48 < mawk> so DF = 1/2 DE
2020-10-03T18:56:57 < mawk> DE is δ
2020-10-03T18:56:59 < mawk> because parallelogram
2020-10-03T18:57:42 < mawk> but you could simplify this proof, just say vector 
2020-10-03T18:57:44 < dongs> what is "projection of C on AD'
2020-10-03T18:58:10 < mawk> *but you could simplify this proof, just say vector KM makes angle -γ with the x axis, and then if you do y coordinate over x coordinate you should get tan(-γ) and that's the same result
2020-10-03T18:58:24 < mawk> (AD) is the line that passes through A and D
2020-10-03T18:58:34 < dongs> thats 11, right?
2020-10-03T18:58:39 < mawk> and the projection of C on a line is the point lying on (AD) that is the closest possible to C
2020-10-03T18:59:00 < dongs> uhhh
2020-10-03T18:59:08 < mawk> the perpendicular projection if you want
2020-10-03T18:59:42 < mawk> point E should be coordinate 6+5+2, so 13
2020-10-03T19:00:01 < mawk> if you place the origin at A
2020-10-03T19:00:15 < dongs> https://i.imgur.com/Yq72V1C.png i guess i suck
2020-10-03T19:00:20 < dongs> is this what you mean?
2020-10-03T19:00:59 < dongs> the 'y' thing in that pic
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2020-10-03T19:01:10 < mawk> yes y is what I called δ
2020-10-03T19:01:17 < mawk> the length of that little segment you drew
2020-10-03T19:01:40 < mawk> you also called it b up left
2020-10-03T19:01:55 < dongs> right, it would be same cuz parallelolgram
2020-10-03T19:01:59 < mawk> yeah
2020-10-03T19:06:25 < mawk> this is a projection dongs https://serveur.io/projection.png
2020-10-03T19:06:34 < mawk> D is the projection of C on (AB)
2020-10-03T19:06:48 < mawk> D doesn't have to lie on the segment [AB], it just needs to be on the same line that the segment is
2020-10-03T19:07:27 < dongs> We place the origin at A and we call δ the x coordinate of C. (from your crazyassmath thing)
2020-10-03T19:07:37 < dongs> what does that mean? is that same as above?
2020-10-03T19:07:41 < dongs> thats 'b' in my pic?
2020-10-03T19:07:48 < mawk> this is another projection: https://serveur.io/other_projection.png
2020-10-03T19:08:00 < mawk> yeah I made a mistake I meant the x coordinate of B dongs 
2020-10-03T19:08:06 < mawk> so that's the b in your pic
2020-10-03T19:08:37 < mawk> but I can simplify the maths proof using just angle
2020-10-03T19:11:47 < mawk> dongs: https://maths.serveur.io/MwOwwRJb
2020-10-03T19:11:57 < mawk> of course you can translate that into a 100% geometric proof
2020-10-03T19:12:03 < mawk> and you end up with PaulFertser's proof
2020-10-03T19:12:13 < mawk> maths is just a rewriting game for the most part
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2020-10-03T19:16:30 < mawk> the fact about y coordinate / x coordinate = tangent of angle is just a geometric fact about right triangles, for instance
2020-10-03T19:16:41 < mawk> but sometimes it's easier to think with the calculation instead of a drawing
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2020-10-03T19:22:04 < PaulFertser> Especially for an algebra guy ;)
2020-10-03T19:22:39 < dongs> anyway 8th grade student in 2020 should just whip out his windows 10-running laptop, fire up solidworks and draw that shit
2020-10-03T19:22:44 < mawk> lol
2020-10-03T19:23:04 < PaulFertser> dongs: it won't show the proof though.
2020-10-03T19:23:37 < dongs> PaulFertser: https://i.imgur.com/Yq72V1C.png is this sufficient?
2020-10-03T19:24:52 < mawk> but you don't know h
2020-10-03T19:25:00 < mawk> if you knew h you would know x
2020-10-03T19:26:23 < mawk> you can give a name to the bottom right vertex of the big triangle, say E, then AKE is isocele so AH = HE, so AH = AE/2
2020-10-03T19:26:28 < mawk> and AE = 11+5
2020-10-03T19:26:39 < mawk> so x = AH = 16/2 = 8
2020-10-03T19:27:30 < dongs> wait which big triangle?
2020-10-03T19:27:48 < mawk> the one you drew
2020-10-03T19:27:56 < mawk> like AKH is half the big triangle
2020-10-03T19:27:57 < dongs> the real big one with 90 on the right side?
2020-10-03T19:28:05 < dongs> ah no the flat one
2020-10-03T19:28:08 < mawk> if you reflect AKH alongside the KH line, you get another triangle
2020-10-03T19:28:15 < mawk> if you combine the two, you get an even bigger triangle
2020-10-03T19:28:19 < mawk> which is isocele by construction
2020-10-03T19:30:09 < mawk> let me show you
2020-10-03T19:30:16 < dongs> i think i get it
2020-10-03T19:30:25 < dongs> but how do you get AE = 11+5
2020-10-03T19:30:39 < mawk> AE is AD + DE
2020-10-03T19:30:42 < mawk> AD is 11
2020-10-03T19:30:50 < mawk> DE is the same as KC
2020-10-03T19:30:58 < mawk> because KDEC is a parallelogram
2020-10-03T19:31:10 < dongs> nice
2020-10-03T19:31:15 < mawk> or because KCM and MDE and similar triangles, also
2020-10-03T19:31:21 < mawk> they share angles and sides and all that
2020-10-03T19:31:46 < dongs> this is prolly waht he problem expected.
2020-10-03T19:31:59 < dongs> as answer
2020-10-03T19:32:55 < mawk> yes I hope
2020-10-03T19:33:02 < mawk> but it was hard to think of
2020-10-03T19:33:17 < mawk> probably the students did 48304830 exercises with the same method so they knew what to do
2020-10-03T19:44:19 < mawk> I found a cool problem PaulFertser 
2020-10-03T19:44:23 < mawk> from a antique japanese scroll
2020-10-03T19:44:51 < Steffanx> unsolved so far?
2020-10-03T19:44:55 < mawk> totally solved
2020-10-03T19:45:00 < mawk> highschooler could do it
2020-10-03T19:45:04 < mawk> but it's still a fun problem
2020-10-03T19:45:21 < Steffanx> luckily im not a high schooler anymore
2020-10-03T19:45:48 < mawk> so you can solve it even faster
2020-10-03T19:46:28 < Cracki> if you wanna diss old people, give everyone a hearing test
2020-10-03T19:46:41 < mawk> lol
2020-10-03T19:46:48 < mawk> https://serveur.io/japanese_problem.jpeg
2020-10-03T19:46:51 < mawk> find all the lengths involved
2020-10-03T19:46:58 < mawk> given that the salmon square has side 1
2020-10-03T19:47:03 < Cracki> fucking e-vehicles run at 10 or 15 khz. I can hear that and I'm glad that my ears aren't fucked enough not to
2020-10-03T19:47:08 < mawk> triangles involved are all equilateral
2020-10-03T19:47:25 < mawk> people want to put alarms/sirenes on them Cracki 
2020-10-03T19:47:25 < Cracki> at least run them at 16, that's marginal. or just do 20 khz and be done with it
2020-10-03T19:47:29 < mawk> when they go above 25km/h or something
2020-10-03T19:47:54 < Cracki> I want to execute all engineers that run shit at frequencies that are audible for young people
2020-10-03T19:48:19 < Cracki> that noise doesn't make these shit things sound futuristic, only retarded
2020-10-03T19:48:36 < Cracki> "all the lengths involved" meaning "count the shapes" or something?
2020-10-03T19:48:50 < Cracki> can't they draw triangles with proper corners
2020-10-03T19:48:58 < mawk> no, give me the side lengths of all the square, all the triangles, radii of all the squares
2020-10-03T19:49:16 < mawk> radii of all the circles I mean
2020-10-03T19:49:29 < mawk> yeah the figure has weird corners
2020-10-03T19:49:33 < mawk> it's the thumbnail of a youtube video
2020-10-03T19:49:36 < mawk> it has to be catchy
2020-10-03T19:49:40 < mawk> I can redo it in geogebra
2020-10-03T19:50:13 < Cracki> salmon = 1, then green is 1+1/sqrt(3)*2 I think
2020-10-03T19:52:31 < mawk> yeah
2020-10-03T19:52:44 < mawk> it's (1+2sqrt(3)/3) all the way down
2020-10-03T19:52:50 < mawk> since everything is similar
2020-10-03T19:53:03 < mawk> so (1+2sqrt(3)/3), then (1+2sqrt(3)/3)², then (1+2sqrt(3)/3)³
2020-10-03T19:53:05 < mawk> pretty funny
2020-10-03T19:53:12 < mawk> but then you need to find the circle shits
2020-10-03T19:53:15 < Cracki> oh no a pattern
2020-10-03T19:53:21 < mawk> lol
2020-10-03T19:53:27 < Cracki> inscribed triangle, eh
2020-10-03T19:53:35 < mawk> I did it using the chord
2020-10-03T19:53:47 < mawk> the side of the inscribed triangle is just the chord of the circle for a 2π/3 angle
2020-10-03T19:54:02 < mawk> so, 2*radius*sin(1/2 2π/3) = length of chord
2020-10-03T19:54:17 < mawk> you can draw a line from circle center to middle of triangle sides to prove it
2020-10-03T19:54:25 < Cracki> chord... is that... cos(some angle)* 2 * radius
2020-10-03T19:54:28 < mawk> sine of half angle is equal to half the chord
2020-10-03T19:54:38 < mawk> yeah but with sin instead of cos
2020-10-03T19:54:38 < Cracki> hmhm
2020-10-03T19:54:44 < mawk> 2*radius*sin(half angle)
2020-10-03T19:54:47 < Cracki> depends on the angle :>
2020-10-03T19:54:52 < mawk> lol
2020-10-03T19:54:54 < mawk> yeah
2020-10-03T19:55:16 < Cracki> it helps to tilt the head
2020-10-03T19:57:36 < mawk> but you can solve this problem with almost no computation about chords and stuff
2020-10-03T19:57:40 < mawk> at least in the way I found
2020-10-03T19:57:46 < mawk> probably that's how the old japanese people did it
2020-10-03T19:57:58 < mawk> draw pretty triforce symbols, do some simple reasoning and handwavy mathematics
2020-10-03T19:58:01 < mawk> and there you are
2020-10-03T19:58:07 < mawk> but it's not rigorous
2020-10-03T19:58:54 < mawk> like the height of innermost triangle is 3 * the radius of the innermost circle
2020-10-03T19:59:00 < mawk> if you believe it hard enough
2020-10-03T19:59:21 < mawk> draw the dual triangle of the innermost triangle, that makes a triforce symbol
2020-10-03T19:59:32 < mawk> then draw one of the heights, wave your hand
2020-10-03T19:59:38 < mawk> there, height = 3 * radius
2020-10-03T20:12:18 < Cracki> jedi mind tricks
2020-10-03T20:21:40 < Cracki> lol just saw a picture of school children being made to run while wearing masks... that's just idiotic
2020-10-03T20:22:27 < Cracki> I also keep seeing bicyclists wearing masks, while cycling
2020-10-03T20:23:31 < Cracki> do they keep breathing like they're just talking a walk or what
2020-10-03T20:30:33 < BrainDamage> here for the bike tour they decided to isolate completely the competitors and their managers from the others, after screening all of them
2020-10-03T20:30:58 < BrainDamage> they already tested that in previous minor tours and worked successfully
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2020-10-03T21:22:49 < mawk> https://serveur.io/japanese_problem.png
2020-10-03T21:22:52 < mawk> redid it
2020-10-03T21:34:29 < Steffanx> ok
2020-10-03T21:41:39 < jadew> Cracki, that actually develops them better
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2020-10-03T21:42:00 < Cracki> wearing a petri dish is a bad idea, sure
2020-10-03T21:42:30 < Cracki> I'm more worried about the fucking mask making it hard to inhale *fast*
2020-10-03T21:42:32 < jadew> athletes are sometimes wearing masks that increase the difficulty of breathing or decrease the oxygen level
2020-10-03T21:43:00 < Cracki> those probably aren't comparable but leave a lot of air through still
2020-10-03T21:43:00 < jadew> Cracki, yeah, that's actually good for you, especially if you do it as part of a periodic exercise
2020-10-03T21:43:06 < boddax> better they wear diving thank
2020-10-03T21:43:16 < Cracki> there are swim shorts that have mesh for extra drag. resistance training.
2020-10-03T21:43:50 < jadew> the point is that it's not detrimental to their health, it's actually making them stronger
2020-10-03T21:43:53 < Cracki> if I get out of breath and have to wear the fucking mask, it just ends up sticking to my face and preventing me from breathing
2020-10-03T21:44:18 < boddax> https://www.offerte-abanoterme.it/wp-content/themes/yootheme/cache/Y-40-bici-31d2ac19.jpeg
2020-10-03T21:44:22 < Cracki> that shit is NOT really permeable to air. it's a fig leaf. air goes around it. it catches droplets and sputum, nothing else
2020-10-03T21:44:34 < jadew> Cracki, yeah, and if you do that every other day, as kids would, that increases their red cell count
2020-10-03T21:44:40 < Cracki> lol
2020-10-03T21:44:45 < Cracki> let's just stop with that
2020-10-03T21:44:46 < jadew> which is good for effort and for covid :)
2020-10-03T21:46:17 < Cracki> oh did you know, on space stations in zero gravity, they HAVE to have air ventilation because exhaled air doesn't rise away from the mouth
2020-10-03T21:46:26 < Cracki> you end up breathing your own spent air if there's no circulation
2020-10-03T21:47:39 < Cracki> I'm sick of it all, sick of the people who purposely misunderstand subtle points
2020-10-03T21:48:02 < Cracki> calling it "misunderstand" is too mild a word. it's fucking lying.
2020-10-03T21:48:13 < jadew> what are you talking about?
2020-10-03T21:48:56 < Cracki> masks hinder breathing. you _do_ breathe back in some of what you exhaled. it _is_ providing resistance to air flow.
2020-10-03T21:49:35 < Cracki> I can't even stereotype the responses they're so retarded my brain can't model them
2020-10-03T21:50:35 < jadew> the problem with running and exercises in general, is that you're generating lots of aerosols, which is why masks are necessary unless done outside on a windy day
2020-10-03T21:50:55 < Cracki> they're basically denying small effects (small increases in inhaled co2) while simultaneously believing that those masks have a huge effect, which they don't. they have a small effect. measurable but small.
2020-10-03T21:50:59 < jadew> and masks are not detrimental to your health, they might be annoying when exercising, but they're effect is actually good for you
2020-10-03T21:51:04 < Cracki> pls stop
2020-10-03T21:51:32 < Cracki> show me how you're jogging for 15 minutes with a mask on that isn't just one layer of thin cloth
2020-10-03T21:51:35 < jadew> higher CO2 concentration just makes you think you're out of O2 faster
2020-10-03T21:51:41 < Cracki> show me
2020-10-03T21:52:00 < jadew> and lower O2 concentration increases your red blood cell - fighters do it all the time
2020-10-03T21:52:01 < Cracki> go jogging for 15 minutes with one of those throwaway surgical masks
2020-10-03T21:52:05 < jadew> for weeks at a time!
2020-10-03T21:52:06 < Cracki> I want to see it
2020-10-03T21:52:17 < jadew> look into high altitude training
2020-10-03T21:52:27 < jadew> there are masks to simulate it
2020-10-03T21:52:41 < Cracki> go jogging now, with a throwaway surgical mask
2020-10-03T21:52:51 < jadew> I did that
2020-10-03T21:52:53 < Cracki> I want to see you panting with that flap of paper in front of your mouth
2020-10-03T21:53:02 < jadew> actually I do it regularly and I enjoy the difficulty
2020-10-03T21:53:17 < jadew> and I'm actually using FFP2 masks for that, which are slightly worse
2020-10-03T21:53:45 < Cracki> so they have a valve in any direction
2020-10-03T21:53:48 < Cracki> *do
2020-10-03T21:53:57 < jadew> for exhaling, yeah
2020-10-03T21:54:51 < jadew> anyway, training with a mask is not a big deal, people train with shit that makes breathing much much more difficult than a crappy surgical masks does
2020-10-03T21:54:59 < jadew> and they do that because it's GOOD for their body
2020-10-03T21:55:25 < jadew> it's annoying, yeah, I'll give you that, but it's not detrimental in any way
2020-10-03T21:55:49 < Cracki> I'll make note of that
2020-10-03T21:57:03 < jadew> https://mxbody.com/buy/high-altitude-training-mask/
2020-10-03T21:57:24 < Cracki> totally different thing
2020-10-03T21:57:35 < jadew> it's not different, it's worse
2020-10-03T21:57:44 < Cracki> show me proof for that claim
2020-10-03T21:57:59 < Cracki> it's not made to filter particles
2020-10-03T21:58:22 < jadew> I have no problem running with any kind of mask, and I'm not a professional athlete
2020-10-03T21:59:03 < jadew> it would be silly to think that pros train at a lower level than that
2020-10-03T22:00:29 < Cracki> so you're saying athletes use masks BECAUSE they reduce oxygen intake and hinder air flow
2020-10-03T22:00:35 < jadew> yes
2020-10-03T22:00:42 < Cracki> ok so you're agreeing with my point
2020-10-03T22:01:04 < jadew> I'm agreeing that they're annoying, but that doesn't mean it's bad for you
2020-10-03T22:01:08 < jadew> or bad in any way really
2020-10-03T22:01:15 < jadew> it's just annoying
2020-10-03T22:01:17 < Cracki> I could tell you that doctors of sports medicine advise against intensive exercise with a mask
2020-10-03T22:01:34 < Cracki> yeah the flu isn't bad for you, it makes your immune system stronger :D
2020-10-03T22:02:01 < Cracki> "not bad in any way" is a big claim
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2020-10-03T22:02:22 < jadew> Cracki, your body adjusts to it to the point where it has no effect anymore
2020-10-03T22:02:58 < jadew> so there can't be any side effects, other than making you better at obtaining oxygen from rarefied air
2020-10-03T22:03:07 < Cracki> ok which authority would you believe when they contradict you?
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2020-10-03T22:03:35 < jadew> I would believe a study that says it's bad
2020-10-03T22:03:40 < jadew> (maybe)
2020-10-03T22:03:56 < Cracki> is this good enough https://blog.urbansportsclub.com/en/health/sport-with-a-mask-is-training-with-a-face-mask-safe/
2020-10-03T22:04:02 < Cracki> a doctor from a university
2020-10-03T22:04:25 < jadew> so it's just his opinion
2020-10-03T22:04:38 < Cracki> I give up
2020-10-03T22:04:41 < Cracki> good night
2020-10-03T22:04:44 < jadew> against something that has been done for so long?
2020-10-03T22:04:51 < Cracki> Even if you think that you could imitate altitude training with a breathing mask, the study situation is clear: it doesn’t work. It’s assumed that masks make breathing more difficult, but it’s not really the case that less oxygen and carbon dioxide get through. The dangers and risks of wearing a breathing mask are therefore manageable.
2020-10-03T22:04:52 < jadew> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Altitude_training
2020-10-03T22:04:53 < Cracki> >
2020-10-03T22:04:59 < Cracki> it's not altitude training
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2020-10-03T22:05:36 < Cracki> altitude training requires you to simulate the air properly. air doesn't get more viscous up there.
2020-10-03T22:05:40 < jadew> hold on, I need to re-read that quote
2020-10-03T22:05:56 < Cracki> your lungs have to work more in high altitudes, not have to work against restricted air flow
2020-10-03T22:06:33 < jadew> Cracki, the point in altitude training is not altitude training
2020-10-03T22:06:38 < Cracki> lol
2020-10-03T22:06:48 < Cracki> I'm really gonna stop now
2020-10-03T22:06:51 < jadew> the point in altitude training is increasing red blood cells because you don't get enough oxygen
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2020-10-03T22:07:09 < jadew> it's just a method of training your lungs
2020-10-03T22:07:13 < Cracki> and he says masks don't reduce oxygen (be that as it may)
2020-10-03T22:07:20 < Cracki> so masks don't simulate high altitude
2020-10-03T22:07:23 < jadew> you don't have to completely imitate it
2020-10-03T22:07:43 < jadew> if the result is the same, or better, then fine, the point is that we adapt to those situations and in turn it makes us stronger
2020-10-03T22:07:46 < jadew> that's the point of exercise
2020-10-03T22:08:07 < jadew> Cracki, they don't simulate it precisely, but they have the same role
2020-10-03T22:08:35 < jadew> the idea is to train your breathing apparatus
2020-10-03T22:10:43 < jadew> from that article:
2020-10-03T22:10:46 < jadew> “Training with a breathing mask is more strenuous, for the simple reason that you have to muscularly apply more strength to breathe against resistance,” says Dr. Gerken. According to this, breathing is more difficult.
2020-10-03T22:10:54 < jadew> no shit - that's the point sometimes!
2020-10-03T22:12:09 < jadew> also from the conclusion: "Wearing a cover over your mouth and nose during sport is not dangerous and can make sense provided you adhere to all other hygiene measures and the correct use of the mask. "
2020-10-03T22:12:11 < Cracki> "that's not from a study, that's just his opinion"
2020-10-03T22:12:36 < Cracki> love how the thresholds shift
2020-10-03T22:12:46 < jadew> what threshold?
2020-10-03T22:13:08 < jadew> the article didn't say it's bad, just like I sustained
2020-10-03T22:13:33 < jadew> and it's ignoring the health benefits, for which I already linked a wiki article and actual products used by athletes
2020-10-03T22:14:12 < jadew> difficulty in training is what you're training for
2020-10-03T22:15:00 < Cracki> so all the health insurances should mandate you always walk around with a mask, for the health benefit?
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2020-10-03T22:15:39 < jadew> I don't know... maybe they should, but then they'd start losing money
2020-10-03T22:15:49 < jadew> I don't care they care about your health, they care about the bottom line
2020-10-03T22:16:00 < jadew> *I don't think
2020-10-03T22:16:04 < jadew> *I don't think they care
2020-10-03T22:16:05 < Cracki> you must be trolling
2020-10-03T22:16:27 < jadew> insurance companies only care about the money
2020-10-03T22:16:59 < jadew> if they force you to be completely healthy, but they impose too much of an annoyance on you, you won't pay them
2020-10-03T22:17:07 < jadew> because you know you won't be able to do what they're asking of you
2020-10-03T22:17:10 < jadew> so they'll lose money
2020-10-03T22:17:18 < jadew> so they don't ask you all that crap
2020-10-03T22:20:17 < Cracki> https://www.businessinsider.com/why-may-be-dangerous-exercise-wearing-face-mask-physiology-expert-2020-6?r=US&IR=T
2020-10-03T22:20:29 < Cracki> there, an actual experiment. I'm sure it replicates easily.
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2020-10-03T22:20:57 < Cracki> I doubt that'll get you to see my point
2020-10-03T22:21:16 < jadew> LOL "To gain a rough understanding of the problem, I experimented on myself. I ran on a treadmill at 10 kph for three minutes to reflect the intensity and duration of fencing."
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2020-10-03T22:23:40 < Cracki> not a study, "just an opinion" https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC7306735/
2020-10-03T22:24:44 < jadew> right, here's one that's 100% not politically motivated, because it's not from 2020: https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4879455/
2020-10-03T22:24:59 < Cracki> >Elevation Training Mask
2020-10-03T22:25:05 < Cracki> not equivalent to what we're told to wear
2020-10-03T22:25:15 < Cracki> but ok I'll read on
2020-10-03T22:25:39 < Cracki> >Wearing the ETM did not improve lung function, inspiratory muscle strength, or stimulate changes in hemoglobin or hematocrit levels.
2020-10-03T22:26:09 < jadew> it did improve other stuff tho, didn't it?
2020-10-03T22:26:51 < jadew> "The relatively large improvements in VT, PO at VT, RCT, and PO at RCT while wearing the mask could have very significant performance implications."
2020-10-03T22:29:49 < qyx> so the cmsis-dsp's RFFT has both input buffer and output buffer 
2020-10-03T22:29:55 < qyx> it doesn't do the transfor in place
2020-10-03T22:30:02 < qyx> and yet it modifies the input buffer
2020-10-03T22:30:04 < qyx> wtf
2020-10-03T22:30:44 < qyx> anyone tried any other FFT implementations?
2020-10-03T22:34:12 < Cracki> does it? what does it write into the input buffer?
2020-10-03T22:34:35 < Cracki> "other fft impls", I commonly use numpy (desktop obviously) and that doesn't fuck around
2020-10-03T22:34:42 < jpa-> it first does the real fft to complex fft thing, and then does a complex transform
2020-10-03T22:37:10 < jpa-> https://github.com/PetteriAimonen/QuadPawn/blob/master/Runtime/fix16_fft.c  i have this trivial and not very optimized implementation of real fft, it's not in-place but does not modify input buffer
2020-10-03T22:42:41 < qyx> and is this the whole docs available? https://www.keil.com/pack/doc/CMSIS/DSP/html/group__RealFFT.html#ga5d2ec62f3e35575eba467d09ddcd98b5
2020-10-03T22:43:07 < qyx> *the only
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2020-10-03T22:45:16 < jpa-> qyx: yeah; the beginning of that page has some useful stuff
2020-10-03T22:46:57 < qyx> oh I didn't see
2020-10-03T22:47:46 < jpa-> if one checks the source code, it appears that the input buffer is only modified for inverse FFT
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2020-10-03T22:51:25 < qyx> I don't get those optimizations of packing real values into complex ones and doing N/2 cfft and such
2020-10-03T22:51:49 < qyx> I found many forum posts saying people are getting wrong results, only half of the values, etc.
2020-10-03T22:52:19 < qyx> so either 1. docs are not concise enough or 2. the implementation is weird
2020-10-03T22:52:42 < jpa-> that's pretty normal confusion, there are a bunch of ordering for different fft functions
2020-10-03T22:57:55 < jpa-> qyx: http://paste.dy.fi/4xr/plain   here is some stuff that has worked for me
2020-10-03T22:59:08 < qyx> https://github.com/stg/SYLT-FFT/blob/master/LICENSE
2020-10-03T22:59:09 < qyx> :D
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--- Day changed Sun Oct 04 2020
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2020-10-04T00:22:37 < qyx> I got some output from the cmsis fft
2020-10-04T00:32:03 < Steffanx> All zeros?
2020-10-04T00:54:02  * karlp laughs
2020-10-04T00:56:46 < zyp> :)
2020-10-04T01:01:13 < Laurenceb> NaN
2020-10-04T01:02:23  * Laurenceb is trying to dehydrate 3A molecular sieve
2020-10-04T01:02:30 < Laurenceb> with a microwave....
2020-10-04T01:03:40 < emeb_mac> fun
2020-10-04T01:04:51 < Laurenceb> well I dont want to put my gas oven at gas mark 9
2020-10-04T01:05:12 < Laurenceb> but I'm worried I'll burn out the microwave oven
2020-10-04T01:05:36 < Laurenceb> someone has to have solved this problem, I need a "mini autoclave" that fits inside the microwave
2020-10-04T01:05:50 < Laurenceb> I need to get the granules to ~275C
2020-10-04T01:06:08 < qyx> Steffanx: no, something fabs(real)
2020-10-04T01:06:10 < Laurenceb> so far they are only 25% dehydrated
2020-10-04T01:09:31 < Laurenceb> this is probably an all round bad idea
2020-10-04T01:09:39 < Laurenceb> I'll use a gas torch instead
2020-10-04T01:10:07 < Steffanx> Dont blow it
2020-10-04T01:10:44 < Laurenceb>  (((they))) will not survive the gas
2020-10-04T01:10:45 < Laurenceb> tbh
2020-10-04T01:11:02 < Laurenceb> but my microwave will survive this new plan
2020-10-04T01:12:00  * Laurenceb is making custom double glazed panels
2020-10-04T01:13:21 < Laurenceb> I couldn't find the glazing bars available anywhere, had to remove them from old smashed windows
2020-10-04T01:13:36 < Laurenceb> >NORDGLAS
2020-10-04T01:13:50 < Laurenceb> seem to make all the ones I found
2020-10-04T01:14:45 < Laurenceb> then fill them with dehydrated 3A molecular sieve, and use butyl rubber sealant to stick the glass in place
2020-10-04T01:15:11 < Laurenceb> now I can have weirdly shaped double glazed units
2020-10-04T01:15:23 < zyp> eli5?
2020-10-04T01:16:07 < Laurenceb> http://mymistywindowfix.com/
2020-10-04T01:16:17 < Laurenceb> ^like that guy, but he is a perman00b
2020-10-04T01:16:40 < Laurenceb> silicone rubber is water permeable and the wrong sealant to use
2020-10-04T01:17:08 < Laurenceb> also silica gel will dehydrate when sun shines on the window, 3A is used for a reason...
2020-10-04T01:17:48 < zyp> oh, you're just fixing your windows? sounded like you were doing some hardcore chemistry project
2020-10-04T01:17:58 < Laurenceb> lol
2020-10-04T01:18:13 < Laurenceb> nah I'm just making some weirdly shaped custom windows
2020-10-04T01:18:32 < karlp> what's "3A" ?
2020-10-04T01:19:08 < karlp> I've been doing home shti too, finalyl modelled up the house, or some of it, to help with planning storage unitts and new bedroom plans for the girls
2020-10-04T01:19:22 < Laurenceb> http://www.bestqihang.com/molecular-sieve/zeolite-powder-3a.html?gclid=EAIaIQobChMI85eHmbqZ7AIVQu7tCh21ZASVEAAYAyAAEgLFk_D_BwE
2020-10-04T01:19:37 < Laurenceb> one of the common molecular sieve grades
2020-10-04T01:19:49 < zyp> karlp, nice
2020-10-04T01:19:52 < Laurenceb> its the most aggressively hydroscopic
2020-10-04T01:19:57 < karlp> https://bin.jvnv.net/file/xWV3m.png
2020-10-04T01:20:07 < karlp> it's... somewhat addictive.
2020-10-04T01:20:38 < Laurenceb> interesting software
2020-10-04T01:20:43 < karlp> Laurenceb: so, you left off the noun, and expected us to infer it from the adjective?
2020-10-04T01:21:03 < karlp> yeah, it's ghetto java, but apparently very well regarded as far as shit you can gett done with it.
2020-10-04T01:21:07 < Laurenceb> >* Laurenceb is trying to dehydrate 3A molecular sieve
2020-10-04T01:21:10  * karlp has no experience in this field much
2020-10-04T01:21:26 < Laurenceb> iirk freecad has home design plugins
2020-10-04T01:21:32 < Laurenceb> but I never used them
2020-10-04T01:21:36 < karlp> yeah, I knew already I had no desire to try that :)
2020-10-04T01:21:58 < karlp> it's one thing to lay out some walls, but I particularly wanted to model things like beds and shelving to make sure there was space for things
2020-10-04T01:22:16 < Laurenceb> yeah, it looks good for quick modelling
2020-10-04T01:22:18 < zyp> I got a delivery of 2m3 crushed rock the other day, to start filling back up the volume I've dug out :p
2020-10-04T01:22:31  * Laurenceb bbl
2020-10-04T01:23:00 < zyp> and then I landed some contract work, and now I'm not sure when I'll find time to continue on that
2020-10-04T01:24:40 < karlp> all homes look better with a pile of dirt/rock outside waiting for "the right moment"
2020-10-04T01:25:43 < zyp> might work out okay, apparently one of the parts I'm gonna play with is still a couple of weeks away, and before that arrives I just need to get the BSP and the libs I need going and figure out how they fit together
2020-10-04T01:26:26 < zyp> and so far that looks fairly okay
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2020-10-04T01:29:39 < Steffanx> No more "normal" day job zyp or is it all next to that?
2020-10-04T01:30:46 < zyp> I'm covid-furloughed or whatever that's called in english
2020-10-04T01:30:46 < karlp> what happened ot your pumps and motors thing? was that only a short term gig?
2020-10-04T01:31:56 < zyp> karlp, the hydraulic stuff? that's my main job
2020-10-04T01:32:31 < zyp> but covid's been fucking up the schedule for that, so I'm furloughed at the moment
2020-10-04T01:42:22 < Steffanx> Hm
2020-10-04T01:49:02 < zyp> I also have a ton of unused paternity leave
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2020-10-04T02:03:49 < karlp> does furloughed in .no mean you get some state unemployment instead of job pay sort of thing or what?
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2020-10-04T11:00:59 < zyp> karlp, yes
2020-10-04T11:02:04 < zyp> I'm still doing some work, like following up the support case with microchip
2020-10-04T11:19:58 < antto> aww
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2020-10-04T12:14:33 < PaulFertser> zyp: is your embedded Linux work involving Yocta?
2020-10-04T12:15:01 < PaulFertser> You mentioned BSP but it can mean many different things.
2020-10-04T12:15:18 < PaulFertser> Some being tolerable, and some extremely uncool.
2020-10-04T12:20:11 < zyp> yes
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2020-10-04T12:36:19 < PaulFertser> zyp: tbh, I still can't understand all the momentum OE/Yocta gained. Cross-compiling is always harder than native compiling, and most Yocta targets can just run vanilla Debian. So what's the real advantage? The layering system with .bbappend files?
2020-10-04T12:44:15 < c10ud> on some platform you can't really do self hosting
2020-10-04T12:45:24 < c10ud> plus, when doing real work(tm), being able to cross compile your stuff is always nice (much faster than on target)
2020-10-04T12:47:08 < c10ud> but, Yocto, my xp with it is pretty limited...however I found buildroot much simpler/better
2020-10-04T12:53:44 < PaulFertser> c10ud: but it's not necessary to compile on target. There're fast ARM machines, and also you can compile pretty fast on an ARM VM on modern x86 hosts.
2020-10-04T12:55:31 < c10ud> but pretty fast != native fast.. ofcourse ymmv depending on what you want to do
2020-10-04T12:56:45 < PaulFertser> The target Yocta system at my current work has as much RAM as this netbook I'm using atm :)
2020-10-04T12:59:09 < c10ud> also don't forget you can keep a clean target, usually -dev stuff clutters/fills your disk
2020-10-04T13:00:00 < c10ud> I used to compile on target when I was dev'ing on a beaglebone black some years ago, my 2GB emmc was almost filled with -dev pkgs
2020-10-04T13:00:58 < c10ud> if you compare that with i.e. 128GiB readily-available SD cards thats a joke of course.. 
2020-10-04T13:01:31 < c10ud> but really it depends on the effort you want to put and what you want to achieve imho
2020-10-04T13:04:13 < PaulFertser> Right, hence asking the practitioners to share the stories when they were really happy with Yocta vs. general-purpose GNU/Linux distros.
2020-10-04T13:06:26 < PaulFertser> (sorry for misspelling Yocto, it just rhymes so nicely with "yobta" (russian curse word) that it confuses me every now and then)
2020-10-04T13:08:03 < c10ud> my main motivation for buildroot (not yocto because of the aforementioned reason) was the target being an Atmel SAMA5D4
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2020-10-04T13:09:13 < c10ud> nowadays for much more defined platforms (NVIDIA) I don't make my own bsp but I still cross compile because it's a faster workflow for me
2020-10-04T13:16:48 < PaulFertser> c10ud: thnx for sharing. I like OpenWrt for constrained targets.
2020-10-04T13:51:04 < dongs> c10ud: where would a nigga start with crosscompiling entire system with buildroot for allwhiner
2020-10-04T13:52:14 < qyx> with uh oh downloading buildroot
2020-10-04T13:52:22 < dongs> does it just work
2020-10-04T13:52:26 < qyx> there are many sunxi patches already in buildroot
2020-10-04T13:53:04 < PaulFertser> buildroot or buildroot2 ?
2020-10-04T13:53:10 < c10ud> it has been a while, but the whole shebang was just easy, a single menuconfig for setting the entire system
2020-10-04T13:53:24 < c10ud> plus, you get a menuconfig in your menuconfig, for all your kernel needs
2020-10-04T13:53:30 < qyx> usually just a make your_awesome_board_defconfig
2020-10-04T13:53:36 < qyx> make menuconfig, click, click, save
2020-10-04T13:53:37 < qyx> make all
2020-10-04T13:53:42 < PaulFertser> Also, afaik buildroot is based on complicated GNU Make files, the nigga will hate it with passion.
2020-10-04T13:55:37 < PaulFertser> Yocto is based on layers and layers of python and shell code. So probably something to avoid as well.
2020-10-04T14:10:22 < dongs> i think make is probably less evil than gaython
2020-10-04T14:10:46 < antto> SNEK
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2020-10-04T14:11:54 < antto> is senpai fiddling with allwinner?
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2020-10-04T14:12:11 < dongs> i made hw, thankfully i dont need to deal with software
2020-10-04T14:12:18 < dongs> but i hear nonstop whining from those who do
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2020-10-04T14:12:30 < antto> aww
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2020-10-04T14:14:05 < antto> dongs, prepare urself, kicad6 is coming soon
2020-10-04T14:14:19 < antto> >:)
2020-10-04T14:14:54 < antto> teh inevitable future
2020-10-04T14:17:35 < dongs> nobody cares about kikecad6
2020-10-04T14:18:55 < antto> u know that ain't entirely true
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2020-10-04T14:20:10 < antto> i foresee you on #kicad
2020-10-04T14:20:48 < boddax> kicad fans
2020-10-04T14:22:21 < benishor> kicad is osom
2020-10-04T14:23:01 < antto> in dongs' nightmares tonight: https://kicad-pcb.org/made-with-kicad/olinuxino/olinuxino.jpg
2020-10-04T14:23:44 < antto> (okay, olimex cheated a lil bit with this one)
2020-10-04T14:30:48 < Steffanx> Mr d will go kicad6 for sure. He does nkthing but rage about altium lately
2020-10-04T14:31:18 < antto> not just him
2020-10-04T14:33:53 < antto> mm, i should draw a lil pikchurr
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2020-10-04T14:44:28 < Mangy_Dog> im having a strange issue... For the last week ive been writing stuff on my macbook as my pc was down... I brought the project over to the main pc, and the goto's i had (not many) arent working now getting an error "jump to label 'failEnd' [-fpermissive]" 
2020-10-04T14:45:49 < Steffanx> Goto :P
2020-10-04T14:46:13 < Mangy_Dog> ?
2020-10-04T14:46:37 < zyp> sounds like different compiler versions and you're now trying to build on a stricter version
2020-10-04T14:46:51 < zyp> and can probably get around it by giving the compiler the -fpermissive flag
2020-10-04T14:47:09 < Mangy_Dog> hmmm ok
2020-10-04T14:47:36 < Mangy_Dog> the strange thing is its pretty much a paste and copy of my serial code for my digits display
2020-10-04T14:47:45 < Mangy_Dog> the goto worked in that but that was arduino
2020-10-04T14:47:48 < zyp> sounds like you're doing something like this: https://stackoverflow.com/questions/14274225/statement-goto-can-not-cross-variable-definition
2020-10-04T14:47:53 < Mangy_Dog> this is rogers stm32 core
2020-10-04T14:48:19 < zyp> yeah, sure, the difference is either compiler version or compiler settings making one stricter than the other
2020-10-04T14:48:37 < Mangy_Dog> hmm 
2020-10-04T14:48:49 < zyp> and it's a problem because you're doing something that's considered gray zone, i.e. it might be allowed or not depending on how strict the compiler is
2020-10-04T14:49:02 < Mangy_Dog> so -fpermissive will basically make the compiler ignore that error and allow it?
2020-10-04T14:49:40 < antto> https://i.imgur.com/fItTl1E.png
2020-10-04T14:49:42 < antto> >:)
2020-10-04T14:49:43 < zyp> -fpermissive will make the compiler more permissive so it'll allow that code, making it not an error in the first place
2020-10-04T14:49:49 < zyp> that's different from ignoring an error
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2020-10-04T14:50:02 < Mangy_Dog> ahh
2020-10-04T14:50:05 < Mangy_Dog> ok
2020-10-04T14:50:16 < Mangy_Dog> will try in a minute, need a quick break!
2020-10-04T14:50:33 < zyp> alternatively you can fix your code so it'll get accepted in either case
2020-10-04T14:50:47 < dongs> antto: amazing artwork, too bad kikecad is already dead
2020-10-04T14:50:54 < antto> hahaha
2020-10-04T14:51:35 < antto> tell that to the 200+ folks in the channel, or the many more who ain't even on IRC
2020-10-04T14:52:43 < antto> dongs, do you see that black smudge on the top of the ship?
2020-10-04T14:52:50 < antto> that's you, waving your middle finger
2020-10-04T14:58:00 < Mangy_Dog> kicad is dead?
2020-10-04T14:58:07 < Mangy_Dog> since when?
2020-10-04T14:58:15 < antto> according to senpai fakenews corporation
2020-10-04T14:58:22 < Mangy_Dog> not to mention kicad6 just round the corner and theres some seriously amazing features
2020-10-04T14:58:40 < zyp> they finally got curved traces?
2020-10-04T14:58:47 < Mangy_Dog> hmmm that i dont know :D
2020-10-04T14:58:59 < Mangy_Dog> but you can hide rats nests based on net names
2020-10-04T14:59:04 < antto> btw, i think eegul is on my picture, but you can't see it cuz it's sunken already
2020-10-04T14:59:07 < Mangy_Dog> and hide traces based on nets
2020-10-04T14:59:51 < Mangy_Dog> which makes stupid mistakes like ones i make (missing traces unconnected pins) a little easier to spot
2020-10-04T14:59:54 < zyp> > new amazing features
2020-10-04T15:00:06 < zyp> > something every decent ecad has done since forever
2020-10-04T15:00:16 < Mangy_Dog> like i say..... amazing :D
2020-10-04T15:00:22 < Mangy_Dog> they finally caught up
2020-10-04T15:00:31 < Mangy_Dog> thats something to celebrate :D
2020-10-04T15:00:37 < zyp> missing unconnected pins?
2020-10-04T15:00:39 < antto> zyp, "decent" u mean payware
2020-10-04T15:00:44 < zyp> have you ever tried running a DRC?
2020-10-04T15:00:51 < Mangy_Dog> yeah i use drc as well
2020-10-04T15:01:05 < Mangy_Dog> but sometimes it gets lost in the quagmire of false errors
2020-10-04T15:01:07 < zyp> doesn't the DRC give you a list of unconnected pins?
2020-10-04T15:01:10 < zyp> what?
2020-10-04T15:01:13 < zyp> false errors?
2020-10-04T15:01:20 < Mangy_Dog> esp as I put in dummy traces to get past jlc vetting
2020-10-04T15:01:31 < antto> aww
2020-10-04T15:01:51 < antto> the DRC in kicad6 becomes sorta scriptable
2020-10-04T15:02:09 < antto> you can put conditions like track lengths and wut not
2020-10-04T15:02:14 < zyp> I don't export gerbers unless DRC returns zero violations
2020-10-04T15:02:35 < Mangy_Dog> the drc doesnt like unconnected vias
2020-10-04T15:02:38 < Mangy_Dog> which i use for nibbles
2020-10-04T15:02:39 < zyp> kinda defeats the whole point otherwise
2020-10-04T15:02:50 < antto> i mean, not scriptable in some SNEK sense, they got a built-in editor with code suggestions
2020-10-04T15:03:02 < Mangy_Dog> nor dummy traces
2020-10-04T15:03:19 < zyp> antto, payware, sure
2020-10-04T15:03:42 < sync> zyp: I always have courtyard violations but meh, yolo
2020-10-04T15:03:46 < Mangy_Dog> there is another drc error i get sometimes, something to do with being too close to the bounding of a component or something... 
2020-10-04T15:04:16 < dongs> buildroot has 3 million options what the fuck lol
2020-10-04T15:04:23 < Mangy_Dog> even when its not going past things like gap limits or something
2020-10-04T15:04:33 < zyp> sync, I set up my design rules so that the things I deliberately want to do don't violate them
2020-10-04T15:05:08 < sync> yeah, then I'd have to touch a lot of footprints
2020-10-04T15:05:35 < dongs> who teh fuck uses courtyard data
2020-10-04T15:05:42 < dongs> just have proper 3d models for shit
2020-10-04T15:05:44 < zyp> also that
2020-10-04T15:06:04 < Mangy_Dog> oh thats something i would like kicad to sort out.... changing or editing foot prints, to translate back to the schematic, so when ever i run update from schematic tool again... it doesnt revert everything...
2020-10-04T15:06:21 < Mangy_Dog> same with values and text elements of components
2020-10-04T15:06:36 < sync> yeah dongs, which is why I usually ignore the courtyard errors
2020-10-04T15:07:00  * antto puts on his COURTYARD-POLICE uniform
2020-10-04T15:07:40 < zyp> idk, I don't get courtyard errors
2020-10-04T15:07:54 < antto> there's a checkbox for those
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2020-10-04T15:08:06 < antto> or u've just been a gud boi
2020-10-04T15:08:21 < dongs> sync, why do your componjnets even HAVE courtyard data. if you made them all yourself there sholud be none
2020-10-04T15:08:31 < dongs> also uh... pretty sure thats not even a default drc option
2020-10-04T15:08:42 < antto> dongs, the ones i make have courtyard
2020-10-04T15:08:44 < antto> bruh
2020-10-04T15:08:58 < dongs> a footprint *without* 3d model will have its bounding box as the smallest rectangle/wahtever that covers all the pads
2020-10-04T15:09:11 < dongs> so for something like sot23 it will have extra shit where it will violate
2020-10-04T15:09:22 < sync> dongs: sometimes I'm edgy and don't use my own footprints exclusively
2020-10-04T15:09:22 < antto> dongs, the 3D models are optional
2020-10-04T15:09:24 < dongs> but if you add a SOT23 3d model to it, you can put resistors near the center pin and it will still work
2020-10-04T15:09:38 < zyp> dongs, that's why I've started adding 3d to everything
2020-10-04T15:09:38 < dongs> sync, off to footprint gulag you go
2020-10-04T15:09:57 < antto> why would you make footprints when there's plenty in the EGGCELENT library
2020-10-04T15:10:14 < Mangy_Dog> ahh yeah the courtyard error thats the other drc i need to ignore
2020-10-04T15:10:20 < dongs> beacuse you end up like my pal who grabbed an EXCELLENT BMM150 footprint from "SnapEDA"
2020-10-04T15:10:29 < dongs> and every fucking ball on that shit was wrong
2020-10-04T15:10:45 < Mangy_Dog> esp with that dense tricorder pcb as i had to do that with sot23s
2020-10-04T15:10:47 < antto> dongs, bruh, snapEDA isn't "the kicad library"
2020-10-04T15:11:00 < dongs> kikecad library is literally aidsfruit lib but with even less QC
2020-10-04T15:11:06 < dongs> i wouldnt touch it ever
2020-10-04T15:11:10 < antto> wut
2020-10-04T15:11:13 < antto> r u serious
2020-10-04T15:11:15 < dongs> yes
2020-10-04T15:11:19 < antto> pls
2020-10-04T15:12:13 < antto> senpai is living in information eclipse
2020-10-04T15:12:33 < antto> he unaware of teh HOLY KLC
2020-10-04T15:12:56 < antto> he thinking kicad folks download 3rd party libs from $random_places_on_teh_internetz
2020-10-04T15:13:10 < antto> ..coz the built-in stuff is poor
2020-10-04T15:13:22 < antto> i mean the stock libs
2020-10-04T15:13:52 < dongs> dude, stock libs are made by MAKE:Rs for their retarduino shields
2020-10-04T15:14:08 < antto> bruh
2020-10-04T15:14:12 < dongs> chances of professional parts being there are super low
2020-10-04T15:14:23 < dongs> so you gotta make shit yourself anyway
2020-10-04T15:14:25 < antto> lots of the stock lib things are generated with scripts
2020-10-04T15:14:32 < dongs> and kikecad footprint/symbol editors are fucking awful
2020-10-04T15:14:33 < antto> based on IPC or JEDEC sh*t
2020-10-04T15:15:29 < zyp> the footprints aren't what takes time anyway, that's just a matter of putting a few datasheet values into the IPC wizard
2020-10-04T15:15:55 < antto> zyp i often make ghetto "combo" footprints
2020-10-04T15:16:52 < zyp> but I really prefer making my own symbols
2020-10-04T15:17:19 < zyp> symbols don't have one correct design, so people have their own styles and shit, and a lot of them are plain awful
2020-10-04T15:17:38 < antto> i make whatever is needed
2020-10-04T15:18:02 < antto> i only use the stock libs, and i don't use any generators or sh*t
2020-10-04T15:18:22 < antto> i'd only download some .step sh*t for the fancy things
2020-10-04T15:18:29 < Mangy_Dog> i cant express enough how many times, ive had to make my own foot prints...
2020-10-04T15:18:31 < zyp> I mean, picture a qfp64 symbol that's a rectangle with 16 legs on each side, all in pin number order
2020-10-04T15:18:38 < Mangy_Dog> mostly for te parts
2020-10-04T15:18:41 < dongs> yeah thats fucking terrible
2020-10-04T15:19:02 < dongs> and then result schematic looks like ass too
2020-10-04T15:19:07 < zyp> physical pin numbers matter so fucking little in the schematic
2020-10-04T15:22:11 < antto> luckily for u, zyp, there are QFP-64 footprints in the stock lib
2020-10-04T15:25:52 < dongs> hes not talking about footprints.
2020-10-04T15:26:13 < dongs> and there's enough different QFP64 footprints that there might not be one
2020-10-04T15:26:23 < dongs> different epad sizes, 0.4 or 0.5 or 0.65mm pitch etc.
2020-10-04T15:26:40 < antto> i know, bruh
2020-10-04T15:28:10 < antto> https://i.imgur.com/bmDN4vZ.png
2020-10-04T15:28:41 < antto> ignore the last two ;P~
2020-10-04T15:29:30 < antto> you can pretty much tell which one you need just from their names
2020-10-04T15:29:44 < antto> that's thanks to KLC
2020-10-04T15:34:33 < jpa-> such magic, reasonable names for symbols
2020-10-04T15:35:48 < dongs> x0x must be some super leet hax0r footprint library
2020-10-04T15:36:08 < dongs> well thre.s no 0.65mm pitch footprint right there
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2020-10-04T15:49:35 < qyx> kicad symbols have some main problems which renders them nearly useless
2020-10-04T15:50:14 < qyx> as zyp says, rectangles with one-by-one pins in the same layout as physical footprint
2020-10-04T15:50:35 < qyx> power supply pins in top and bottom
2020-10-04T15:50:47 < qyx> and out of grid pins which you are unable to connect
2020-10-04T15:50:55 < qyx> the last is actually wtf
2020-10-04T15:57:38 < antto> dongs, that's my own lib
2020-10-04T15:59:03 < antto> qyx, i don't get it, wut's wrong with the rectangles?
2020-10-04T15:59:15 < antto> there are no out-of-grid pins
2020-10-04T15:59:29 < antto> seriously, ur info is old
2020-10-04T15:59:51 < antto> out-of-grid pins were a thing before KLC
2020-10-04T16:00:41 < antto> what's the problem with power supply pins?
2020-10-04T16:05:29 < zyp> uh, as far as I understand qyx is an active kicad user
2020-10-04T16:05:50 < antto> i ain't seeing him on #kicad
2020-10-04T16:06:14 < zyp> maybe because he's busy using it instead of wanking about it on irc?
2020-10-04T16:06:20 < zyp> I'm not on #altium either
2020-10-04T16:06:27 < antto> aww
2020-10-04T16:06:57 < antto> i meant that, i have no impression about qyx skillz
2020-10-04T16:07:04 < antto> maybe he doin things wrong ;P~
2020-10-04T16:11:21 < Steffanx> lol you guys.
2020-10-04T16:13:11 < Steffanx> Get some tea, relax a bit. its weekend.
2020-10-04T16:13:17 < antto> no, u
2020-10-04T16:14:05 < antto> the weekend is the perfect time to start open ur mind for the world of opensource and free software
2020-10-04T16:14:18  * antto looks at senpai
2020-10-04T16:14:45 < Steffanx> Pumper antto
2020-10-04T16:14:50 < Steffanx> ##avrs misses you
2020-10-04T16:15:14 < antto> meh
2020-10-04T16:15:45 < Steffanx> Its true.
2020-10-04T16:15:51 < antto> inform me when they stop talking about non-avr crap there
2020-10-04T16:15:51 < Steffanx> Especially the polish and finish guy
2020-10-04T16:16:06 < antto> which finish guy?
2020-10-04T16:16:22 < antto> doesn't matter, i see em both in other channels
2020-10-04T16:16:50 < Steffanx> finnish.
2020-10-04T16:17:21 < antto> i suspect it's *you* who misses me only
2020-10-04T16:17:40 < antto> for whatever weird reasons
2020-10-04T16:18:24 < Steffanx> lol really?
2020-10-04T16:18:54 < Steffanx> i was mainly there for pumping reasons
2020-10-04T16:19:05 < mawk> that's obscene
2020-10-04T16:19:07 < antto> anyway, i need to reduce the amount of channels i'm on
2020-10-04T16:19:16 < mawk> we don't want to know who you're pumping
2020-10-04T16:19:23 < mawk> I have currently exactly 100 IRC channels open
2020-10-04T16:19:28 < antto> bruh
2020-10-04T16:19:36 -!- Jak_o_Shadows [~Jak@unaffiliated/jak-o-shadows/x-0479135] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds]
2020-10-04T16:19:47 < antto> that's overdose
2020-10-04T16:20:02 < antto> like, 5x overdose
2020-10-04T16:20:04 < Steffanx> i just decided to close at least 5 of the idk how many
2020-10-04T16:20:16 < mawk> don't get influenced by evil preachers Steffanx 
2020-10-04T16:20:18 < mawk> keep the count high
2020-10-04T16:20:23 < mawk> keep the packets flowing
2020-10-04T16:21:22 < antto> at $job i was in #avrs and ##pic .. i left them both
2020-10-04T16:21:44 < antto> both of them are stm32 channels more than anything else
2020-10-04T16:22:13 < Steffanx> you know what that means right?
2020-10-04T16:22:23 < antto> i don't care wut it means
2020-10-04T16:23:30 < antto> there's an interesting tendancy tho.. the two or three folks from #avrs who talk about stm32 all the time, they ain't in here
2020-10-04T16:23:55 < antto> despite me telling them about the eggzistance of this place
2020-10-04T16:24:01 < antto> they knew already
2020-10-04T16:24:09 < antto> wonder why ;P~
2020-10-04T16:25:40 < Steffanx> Dont care why
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2020-10-04T17:55:59 < antto> https://external-preview.redd.it/LH0-qwiigvrol6vr0YPWvbo4FPANl0ummz0owtikuSg.gif?width=728&s=cdf382b942886944031d0568582c2dbc9012791e
2020-10-04T18:00:31 < Cracki> global warming makes snow leopard cub sad
2020-10-04T18:00:39 < Cracki> j/k it's a hoax
2020-10-04T18:02:31 < Steffanx> hm
2020-10-04T18:03:16 < Mangy_Dog> :(
2020-10-04T18:03:56 < Cracki> "climate activists" dgaf about climate. they want to be absolved of the original sin of being white. if they cared, they'd demand nuclear. nuclear needs no battery storage (other kinds of storage they admit can't cut it)
2020-10-04T18:05:50 < Cracki> how retarded is it to demand power generation that depends on the weather, and think making literally thousands tons of batteries to make up for it, is in any way superior to modern nuclear reactors that give you power regardless and require no storage
2020-10-04T18:06:26 < Cracki> snow leopard cubs would want nuclear reactors
2020-10-04T18:06:39 < Cracki> look at that cute face! how dare you deny him?!
2020-10-04T18:06:51 < specing> Cracki: it's not retarded because it's cheaper
2020-10-04T18:06:53 < Cracki> have you no heart?
2020-10-04T18:06:53 < specing> reactors are 10$/W these days and rising
2020-10-04T18:07:05 < Cracki> lol that debunked argument again
2020-10-04T18:07:22 < Steffanx> and the nuclear waste is awesome?
2020-10-04T18:07:40 < Cracki> "renewable" is cheaper because of huge subsidies. nuclear reactors are actually quite cheap to operate and the initial investment eventually makes it cheaper than any renewable
2020-10-04T18:07:53 < Cracki> the nuclear waste is a small problem and manageable
2020-10-04T18:08:05 < Cracki> the waste we have can be burned further, IF WE HAD MODERN REACTORS TO OPERATE
2020-10-04T18:08:21 < Steffanx> Isnt germany in the proces of closing it all down?
2020-10-04T18:08:24 < Steffanx> or is that already done?
2020-10-04T18:08:35 < Cracki> it's UNFAIR to judge nuclear by reactors that are half a century out of date
2020-10-04T18:08:37 < specing> hahahaha Cracki  show me an operating privately funded energy grid reactor
2020-10-04T18:08:46 < Cracki> why, that's no argument
2020-10-04T18:08:49 < specing> nuclear has huge subsidias as well
2020-10-04T18:08:55 < specing> as do fossil plants
2020-10-04T18:09:20 < Cracki> germany is led by idiots. point is invalid.
2020-10-04T18:10:14 < Cracki> india and china are building reactors because they're the best option for the demand they're facing
2020-10-04T18:10:31 < specing> both are also building a fuckton of coal plants
2020-10-04T18:10:50 < Cracki> so?
2020-10-04T18:11:00 < Cracki> are you saying they can't do both?
2020-10-04T18:11:12 < specing> I'm saying that your point has no footing
2020-10-04T18:11:16 < Cracki> why
2020-10-04T18:11:23 < Cracki> because they do things that are independent?
2020-10-04T18:11:28 < specing> large countries build everything, because they are large and can afford it
2020-10-04T18:11:39 < Cracki> your point has no footing. you are a snow leopard cub slipping on an icy stairway
2020-10-04T18:11:49 < specing> and especially because they need reactors for da bombs
2020-10-04T18:11:53 < Cracki> lol
2020-10-04T18:12:21 < Cracki> actually, the reactor types we are "stuck with" were chosen because of dual use
2020-10-04T18:12:33 < Cracki> modern nuclear reactor types would be harder to weaponize
2020-10-04T18:12:43 < Cracki> and a lot more efficient, less waste, they could burn the waste we have
2020-10-04T18:13:00 < Cracki> also cheaper because not operating with high pressure steam but with molten salt
2020-10-04T18:13:09 < Cracki> can't explode like a steam tank can
2020-10-04T18:13:48 < Cracki> all the arguments against nuclear power basically boil down to "let's be luddites and refuse to understand that things improve"
2020-10-04T18:15:25 < specing> it boils down to economics
2020-10-04T18:15:46 < specing> safe nuclear reactors are just too expensive to build
2020-10-04T18:15:56 < Cracki> wrong
2020-10-04T18:16:03 < PaulFertser> "Emancipate yourselves from mental slavery... Have no fear for atomic energy, 'cause none of them can stop the time"
2020-10-04T18:16:56 < Cracki> if you ask the solar and wind energy people, they'll obviously show you numbers that support their side
2020-10-04T18:17:10 < Cracki> https://www.world-nuclear.org/information-library/economic-aspects/economics-of-nuclear-power.aspx
2020-10-04T18:17:36 < Cracki> for example they LOVE to ignore the cost of storage
2020-10-04T18:17:50 < Cracki> but that's just one aspect
2020-10-04T18:23:54 < Cracki> pay attention to the eco-terrorists' shell game of comparing energy _generation_ from nuclear (actual output) vs _capacity_ from solar+wind, which is a fraction of what it actually generates
2020-10-04T18:25:22 < Cracki> https://www.nextbigfuture.com/2019/05/nuclear-is-still-cheaper-and-safer-than-solar-and-wind.html
2020-10-04T18:26:25 < Cracki> >deaths per terawatt hour
2020-10-04T18:29:30 < specing> you know
2020-10-04T18:30:00 < specing> we only need a lot of storage if we continue our current trend of adjusting resource use to our demands
2020-10-04T18:30:07 < specing> which will have to change as well
2020-10-04T18:30:17 < Cracki> that's gibberish
2020-10-04T18:30:31 < specing> per-hour/minute electricity pricing based on costs of production and demand
2020-10-04T18:30:32 < Cracki> are you telling people to stop using energy? REALLY? you think that'll work?
2020-10-04T18:30:43 < Cracki> aren't you from a formerly communist country?
2020-10-04T18:30:52 < Cracki> you should know that doesn't work
2020-10-04T18:30:52 < specing> I'm telling you to use energy sparingly when there's little in the system
2020-10-04T18:31:00 < Cracki> so, south africa, load shedding
2020-10-04T18:31:08 < Cracki> venezuela, load shedding
2020-10-04T18:31:10 < specing> Cracki: we already do this
2020-10-04T18:31:15 < Cracki> yes let's all live in a communist shithole :D
2020-10-04T18:31:16 < specing> it's called 2-tariff system
2020-10-04T18:31:21 < Cracki> that's retarded
2020-10-04T18:31:28 < Cracki> srsly just say no to this bullshit
2020-10-04T18:31:28 < specing> 10pm - 6am lower tariff, else higher tariff
2020-10-04T18:31:47 < specing> it's not bullshit
2020-10-04T18:31:53 < Cracki> they wouldn't do that nonsense if they had the capacity to meet demand
2020-10-04T18:32:02 < Cracki> flatrates are civilized
2020-10-04T18:32:27 < specing> Cracki: it reflects electricity trading on energy markets
2020-10-04T18:32:30 < Cracki> there's no technical reason for this. just generate the energy when there is demand
2020-10-04T18:32:36 < specing> powerplants sell their power to the highest bidder
2020-10-04T18:32:45 < specing> more bidders = higher price, less bidders = lower price
2020-10-04T18:32:47 < Cracki> no, they sell their energy when the sun shines
2020-10-04T18:32:49 < specing> this is capitalism
2020-10-04T18:33:03 < Cracki> no, this is resource constraint
2020-10-04T18:33:09 < specing> no, it's capitalism
2020-10-04T18:33:29 < specing> yes, there could be coal/natgas plants for peak demand, if the externalities were properly taxed
2020-10-04T18:33:35 < Cracki> you're arguing for artificially constraining a resource (generating when the sun shines). I am arguing for removing the constraint, and generating energy when there is demand.
2020-10-04T18:33:44 < Cracki> just use nuclear
2020-10-04T18:33:46 < specing> the resource is constrained!
2020-10-04T18:34:00 < Cracki> it has been supplying the base load for over half a century
2020-10-04T18:34:13 < specing> nuclear is fine, as long as it's properly taxed to account for externalities
2020-10-04T18:34:13 < Cracki> your rhetoric constrains it artificially
2020-10-04T18:34:20 < specing> I'm not constraining anything
2020-10-04T18:34:25 < Cracki> you refuse to use nuclear, your rhetoric constrains the resource
2020-10-04T18:34:31 < specing> I'm not refusing to use nuclear
2020-10-04T18:34:53 < Cracki> so you're for taxing nuclear and subsidizing solar/wind, AND THEN you lament that it's more expensive? lol
2020-10-04T18:35:05 < specing> I'm for taxing everything
2020-10-04T18:35:08 < specing> no subsidies
2020-10-04T18:35:24 < Cracki> wait, a minute ago you were a capitalist, now you want to tax everything?
2020-10-04T18:36:44 < Cracki> brb I still have pudding in the fridge but I don't know where I put the nails
2020-10-04T18:37:01 < specing> capitalism must be regulated
2020-10-04T18:37:31 < Cracki> where are you on the spectrum, how much communism are you asking for
2020-10-04T18:37:47 < specing> the problem with capitalism is that it does not function well when externalities are involved, that is why taxes/tariffs have to be introduced
2020-10-04T18:37:56 < Cracki> I'm against unregulated capitalism myself but bolsheviks can sleep in ditches
2020-10-04T18:38:07 < specing> Then you are with me
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2020-10-04T19:02:15 < Steffanx> Yay. Cracki and specing agree 🥳🥳🥳
2020-10-04T19:03:05 < Cracki> nobody has objected to bolsheviks sleeping in ditches yet. I'm surprised.
2020-10-04T19:03:43 < Cracki> "idle 90 hours", I guess that's why
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2020-10-04T19:05:07 < specing> Cracki: the bolsheviks have nothing to do with this
2020-10-04T19:05:31 < Cracki> that's what they like you to think!
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2020-10-04T19:06:26 < Cracki> you would be surprised in how much capitalist exploitation they have their fingers
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2020-10-04T19:12:39 < Mangy_Dog> oh joy Eclipse was working "normally" up untill 20 minutes ago, " ' [ all automatically create a closing " '  ], but { has stoped doing it :/ even though the setting in the typing preferences still has the option selected
2020-10-04T19:13:04 < Steffanx> Have you tried restarting?
2020-10-04T19:13:09 < Mangy_Dog> yeah
2020-10-04T19:14:43 < Mangy_Dog> not the end of the world or anything, but i got used to it and so now its annoying
2020-10-04T19:27:22 < zyp> you've probably got some weird syntax in the file that's tripping up the autocompletion
2020-10-04T19:32:29 < Mangy_Dog> maybe but its compiling
2020-10-04T19:33:54 < Mangy_Dog> and its now randomly working again >.<
2020-10-04T19:33:56 < Mangy_Dog> joy
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2020-10-04T19:37:57 < Steffanx> Do you fix all your warning in the mean time yet Mangy_Dog? ;)
2020-10-04T19:41:40 < Mangy_Dog> some of the warnings arent errors though so how do you fix low level warnings :p
2020-10-04T19:42:03 < Mangy_Dog> stuff like comparison between signed and unsigned integer expressions
2020-10-04T19:42:30 < Mangy_Dog> i mean sure i can change the value
2020-10-04T19:42:33 < Mangy_Dog> but its not really an error
2020-10-04T19:43:17 < PaulFertser> Warnings are often pointing at places where subtle bugs can happen.
2020-10-04T19:43:26 < Mangy_Dog> nods
2020-10-04T19:43:36 < Mangy_Dog> in this case its a low level number for for loops
2020-10-04T19:43:42 < PaulFertser> Even with a type system as weak as C's they're still useful.
2020-10-04T19:43:45 < Mangy_Dog> so not going to risk wrapping around
2020-10-04T19:43:56 < Mangy_Dog> but yeah i get your point
2020-10-04T19:43:59 < PaulFertser> Why not just use an appropriate type then?
2020-10-04T19:44:21 < Mangy_Dog> most of the time............. bad habbit.
2020-10-04T19:44:38 < Mangy_Dog> sometimes though it cant be helped as i might be reading off 2 different arrays or something
2020-10-04T19:44:40 < PaulFertser> -Werror will make it fail early
2020-10-04T19:46:09 < Mangy_Dog> tbh i might just go through my code and correct the bad habbit ones 
2020-10-04T19:46:09 < Mangy_Dog> :p
2020-10-04T19:46:15 < jpa-> i usually use -Wno-sign-compare or something
2020-10-04T19:46:42 < jpa-> i've never seen an integer over 2 billion so it's not really a problem
2020-10-04T19:47:11 < Mangy_Dog> my for loops tend to only be up to double digits
2020-10-04T19:48:22 < PaulFertser> The problem with "harmless" warnings is that once you get too many of them you stop noticing the useful ones.
2020-10-04T19:49:53 < PaulFertser> Steffanx: do you usually build with -Werror?
2020-10-04T19:52:57 < Steffanx> No PaulFertser
2020-10-04T19:53:36 < PaulFertser> heh
2020-10-04T19:53:44 < Steffanx> i just fix the warnings.
2020-10-04T19:53:55 < Steffanx> maybe for a release build
2020-10-04T19:55:54 < jpa-> you should have -Werror for release builds but not dev builds: you don't want to waste time on "unused variable" warnings when developing, but you want to clean up your code before release
2020-10-04T19:55:55 < jpa-> you should have -Werror for dev builds and not release builds: you'll waste less time debugging bugs that are pointed out by warnings, and your release build won't break when new gcc version introduces new warnings
2020-10-04T19:56:49 < Steffanx> Yes, what you said jpa-
2020-10-04T19:57:09 < jpa-> Steffanx: i wanted to make sure you'd agree
2020-10-04T19:57:23 < Steffanx> uhm
2020-10-04T19:57:24 < Steffanx> ok
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2020-10-04T19:59:17 < Steffanx> So which of the two do you prefer here mr jpa-?
2020-10-04T19:59:33 < jpa-> i throw a dice
2020-10-04T19:59:42 < jpa-> like for all my compiler options
2020-10-04T20:00:35 < Steffanx> Makes sense.
2020-10-04T20:03:00 < PaulFertser> how many faces does your dice have?
2020-10-04T20:05:34 < jpa-> 784
2020-10-04T20:07:25 < jpa-> it's a eptakosiaogdontatesserahedron
2020-10-04T20:08:30 < Steffanx> What drugs are you on today jpa-?
2020-10-04T20:08:42 < jpa-> none (and it shows)
2020-10-04T20:08:58 < Steffanx> hmm
2020-10-04T20:10:52 < jpa-> how about you? stroopwaffels again?
2020-10-04T20:16:54 < Steffanx> no waffles today. not for weeks actually
2020-10-04T20:23:18 < antto> epta-wut?
2020-10-04T20:23:45 < antto> jpa-, with 784 faces, that's roughly a sphere bruh
2020-10-04T20:29:20  * PaulFertser is on English Porter style beer
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2020-10-04T20:37:57 < Steffanx> Beer.
2020-10-04T20:39:22 < PaulFertser> Don't approve Steffanx ? X in your name is starting to show its head?
2020-10-04T20:40:42 -!- Streaker [~Streaker@unaffiliated/streaker] has left ##stm32 ["Leaving"]
2020-10-04T20:41:20 < Steffanx> Lol. Do whatever you like PaulFertser  ;)
2020-10-04T20:41:59 < PaulFertser> Shouldn't I be listening to smart people around me for smart advices?
2020-10-04T20:42:04 < boddax> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6ez58MOX6JQ
2020-10-04T20:42:48 < Steffanx> I have no such advise for you then
2020-10-04T20:44:27 < PaulFertser> :(
2020-10-04T20:44:35 < PaulFertser> Hard to be on my own
2020-10-04T20:45:38 < Steffanx> On your own? Where the wife PaulFertser ?
2020-10-04T20:45:47 < Steffanx> Shes a real russian and prefers vodka?
2020-10-04T20:48:46 < Steffanx> Im sorry PaulFertser . I dont drink beet very often. But.. cheers 
2020-10-04T20:49:27 < PaulFertser> Steffanx: she prefer whiskey
2020-10-04T20:50:03 < PaulFertser> I mean to decide on my own without good advice from fellow developers.
2020-10-04T20:50:35 < PaulFertser> So I had ~200 ml + 450 ml already, and I have another 450 ml bottle in my fridge. Should I drink it Steffanx ?
2020-10-04T20:51:51 < Steffanx> If you feel like it. Go with the flow 🥳
2020-10-04T20:54:30 < PaulFertser> Heh Steffanx , you're not helping ;) It's not always easy to say if I feel like doing something or not...
2020-10-04T20:56:53 < Steffanx> Ok, dont do it PaulFertser .
2020-10-04T20:56:56 < Steffanx> Get a water
2020-10-04T20:57:01 < Steffanx> Glass of water
2020-10-04T20:57:09 < Steffanx> Or red bull
2020-10-04T20:57:17 < Steffanx> Monster?
2020-10-04T20:59:04 < PaulFertser> I'm not sure I ever drank any real amount of any "energy drink".
2020-10-04T20:59:12 < PaulFertser> Probably tasted it once.
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2020-10-04T21:00:23 < Steffanx> Me neither. The smell is bad enough.
2020-10-04T21:00:51 < PaulFertser> And I do not consume any soft drinks either. I used to in my teens, but not much.
2020-10-04T21:01:22 < BrainDamage> red bull is truly disgusting
2020-10-04T21:01:40 < PaulFertser> They sponsor some really nice events though.
2020-10-04T21:01:49 < PaulFertser> Weird eh
2020-10-04T21:01:49 < BrainDamage> same applies for club-mate and the other stuff popular at CCC
2020-10-04T21:02:01 < BrainDamage> yeah, their PR and activities are awesome
2020-10-04T21:02:05 < BrainDamage> their drink is not
2020-10-04T21:03:11 < Steffanx> Here there is what they call "Golden power" the cheap alternative. And it smells even worse. 
2020-10-04T21:03:19 < Steffanx> And not its not piss. I hope at least
2020-10-04T21:04:04 < PaulFertser> Sportsmen are supposed to drink gatorade and such
2020-10-04T21:04:14 < PaulFertser> isotonics
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2020-10-04T21:07:07 < PaulFertser> "In the 19th and early 20th centuries, athletes occasionally drank beer of low alcohol content replenishing water, minerals and energy in the body."
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2020-10-04T21:12:44 < Steffanx> And now many start to drink "0.0%" beer
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2020-10-04T22:03:36 < boddax> wich your favorite brand Steffanx ?
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2020-10-04T22:14:17 < Steffanx> none
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2020-10-04T22:55:33 < zyp> this one is pretty good: https://www.weihenstephaner.de/en/our-beers/non-alcoholic-wheat-beer/
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2020-10-04T22:56:47 < Steffanx> " I am over 21 years old." hmmm
2020-10-04T22:57:20 < zyp> I sometimes order that when I'm eating out and are going to drive home afterwards
2020-10-04T22:57:33 < Steffanx> The awesome web of nowadays. Where you first have to say "Yes/no" to the question wheither you're 21 or not. And then you have to accept cookies (or not)
2020-10-04T22:57:37 < Steffanx> -_-
2020-10-04T22:57:58 < PaulFertser> There wasn't a single wheat bear I liked
2020-10-04T22:58:09 < Steffanx> Stephaner, must be a good bear.
2020-10-04T22:58:12 < Steffanx> beer even
2020-10-04T22:58:31 < zyp> PaulFertser, I tend to prefer wheat beer
2020-10-04T23:01:30 < PaulFertser> zyp: well, tastes differ. But I have an impression that really rich tastes are possible only with high original gravity.
2020-10-04T23:03:18 < PaulFertser> And wheat beer feels like a light ale but with that "odd" wheat note.
2020-10-04T23:06:13 < zyp> idk, I'm not an expert on beer
2020-10-04T23:06:49 < PaulFertser> I think it's worth trying other styles, at least IPA.
2020-10-04T23:07:37 < zyp> well, my go to store beer is a wheat IPA :p
2020-10-04T23:08:01 < PaulFertser> How about barley wine?
2020-10-04T23:08:16 < zyp> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gwDwGWfHGcw <- this one
2020-10-04T23:12:33 < PaulFertser> I wonder what's the IBU of it
2020-10-04T23:15:37 < zyp> 30 if https://untappd.com/b/hansa-borg-bryggerier-hansa-spesial-white-ipa/1414882 is to be believed
2020-10-04T23:16:41 < PaulFertser> untappd should be accurate yes
2020-10-04T23:16:52 < PaulFertser> That must be quite a special wheat beer indeed.
2020-10-04T23:17:36 < PaulFertser> We have a popular 100 IBU regular IPA in local pubs :)
2020-10-04T23:18:56 < PaulFertser> https://untappd.com/b/jaws-brewery-nuclear-laundry-atomnaya-prachechnaya/631746
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2020-10-04T23:19:51 < zyp> :)
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2020-10-04T23:22:59 < zyp> PaulFertser, also, re: yocto from this morning; I didn't pick it
2020-10-04T23:24:03 < PaulFertser> zyp: vendor BSP is not always the only sane way to run it
2020-10-04T23:24:10 < zyp> I know
2020-10-04T23:24:15 < PaulFertser> I know you do :)
2020-10-04T23:24:27 < PaulFertser> Hence asking
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2020-10-04T23:25:03 < zyp> it's what I got from the client, but they're not insisting hard on it
2020-10-04T23:25:45 < PaulFertser> And how are your impressions so far?
2020-10-04T23:26:07 < zyp> dunno, I haven't attempted to build it yet
2020-10-04T23:26:19 < zyp> started exploring another end of the project first
2020-10-04T23:26:42 < zyp> although going with a debian or ubuntu or whatever with a local toolchain makes a lot of sense for development
2020-10-04T23:27:17 < zyp> the way I see it, yocto (and buildroot) is more about making a custom deployment
2020-10-04T23:27:18 < PaulFertser> And debian has a "pbuilder" which can use qemu to prepare packages for foreign architectures when cross-compiling gets problematic.
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2020-10-04T23:28:37 < PaulFertser> I have to admit the way Yocto offers one to extend existing packages by simply dropping a .bbappend file in your own directory (custom meta-layer) is appealing.
2020-10-04T23:28:47 < zyp> I guess I'll explore my options next week
2020-10-04T23:28:53 < zyp> yeah
2020-10-04T23:29:17 < zyp> I did some playing around with openembedded some years ago when I were messing around with the edison
2020-10-04T23:29:32 < zyp> powerful but complex
2020-10-04T23:29:37 < PaulFertser> I did my share back in the OpenMoko days.
2020-10-04T23:30:11 < zyp> I haven't used buildroot yet, if I were doing some hobby project I think I'd try that before trying openembedded/yocto again
2020-10-04T23:30:53 < PaulFertser> One of the early OE developers claimed that OE wouldn't happen if Gentoo was a bit more mature wrt cross-compilation back then 
2020-10-04T23:31:23 < zyp> heh
2020-10-04T23:31:47 < zyp> I used to run gentoo when I were younger
2020-10-04T23:32:15 < zyp> and then I switched to arch
2020-10-04T23:32:35 < Steffanx> and then to the most amazing hackintosh?
2020-10-04T23:32:43 < zyp> should have just skipped both and went straing for debian
2020-10-04T23:32:48 < zyp> straight
2020-10-04T23:34:00 < zyp> and no, I had a real imac before the hackintosh
2020-10-04T23:34:19 < zyp> hackintosh replaced the imac
2020-10-04T23:57:20 < PaulFertser> If I get a new powerful computer I'll run Gentoo again. But this time I'll use as few per-package USE flags as possible.
2020-10-04T23:57:37 < PaulFertser> And dracut for building kernel+modules.
--- Day changed Mon Oct 05 2020
2020-10-05T00:00:21 < kakideluxe> "install gentoo"
2020-10-05T00:00:38 < kakideluxe> it was a meme once
2020-10-05T00:01:01 < kakideluxe> way to troll noobs
2020-10-05T00:01:33 < PaulFertser> I'm still running the system I installed in 2006 probably.
2020-10-05T00:01:45 < kakideluxe> you what
2020-10-05T00:01:57 < PaulFertser> Running almost up-to-date Gentoo installed back then
2020-10-05T00:02:07 < kakideluxe> as your main system?
2020-10-05T00:02:10 < PaulFertser> Yes
2020-10-05T00:02:55 < kakideluxe> that's.. I have mixed feelings about that
2020-10-05T00:04:27 < PaulFertser> Sorry to have been so much of a bore
2020-10-05T00:04:27 < PaulFertser> But in my own funny ways I find I learn much more
2020-10-05T00:04:27 < PaulFertser> I realise what you think from your eyes
2020-10-05T00:04:28 < PaulFertser> But in your own funny ways I find I learn much more
2020-10-05T00:07:42 < kakideluxe> I think I learned what linux was around 2006
2020-10-05T00:10:10 < Steffanx> You decided to keep the windows
2020-10-05T00:12:21 < zyp> IIRC I got into linux around when redhat 7.2 were current, so about 2001/2002 or so
2020-10-05T00:13:24 < PaulFertser> I started with Slackware 3.5 using a 80386 machine with 4 MiB RAM.
2020-10-05T00:13:37 < PaulFertser> I guess it was around 1999-2000.
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2020-10-05T00:30:09 < kakideluxe> 4MiB RAM?
2020-10-05T00:30:33 < PaulFertser> And 120 MiB HDD.
2020-10-05T00:31:13 < PaulFertser> Running MS-DOS 6.22 and Windows 3.11 before that.
2020-10-05T00:39:39 < kakideluxe> I never realized how little ram those machnes had
2020-10-05T00:39:55 < kakideluxe> I knew HDD was like 120megs
2020-10-05T00:42:28 < BrainDamage> 2001 for me too, it was a pentium 4
2020-10-05T00:42:52 < BrainDamage> odd that you had a 386 in 2000, I had that one in the early 90s
2020-10-05T00:43:30 < zyp> maybe russia was in the early 90s in 2000
2020-10-05T00:45:11 < kakideluxe> in our school there was quite a few 386s
2020-10-05T00:45:27 < kakideluxe> dos machines
2020-10-05T00:45:54 < kakideluxe> monitor sits on top of the box
2020-10-05T00:46:03 < kakideluxe> box had big lever switch for power
2020-10-05T00:46:32 < PaulFertser> BrainDamage: I'm not so sure about the year exactly, I remember I had my own 80386 and my father had 80486 and we had coax ethernet between them. And then he got Pentium 200 MMX.
2020-10-05T00:46:43 < kakideluxe> switch did *clonk*
2020-10-05T00:46:57 < BrainDamage> school had 386 when I was in mid school, they had big chunky kvm switches
2020-10-05T00:48:50 < Laurenceb> in uk we had BBC model B
2020-10-05T00:49:00 < Laurenceb> then Acorn machines later
2020-10-05T00:49:09 < BrainDamage> here it was 386 (90s) -> 166MMX(95) -> PIV1.8GHz(2000s) -> c2duo 2.GHz(2005)
2020-10-05T00:49:35 < BrainDamage> the first two were my sister's pc, not mine, but I was still using it
2020-10-05T00:49:45  * Laurenceb got b& from all school computers for irl trolling tony blair using overhead projectors
2020-10-05T00:50:35 < kakideluxe> bbc and acorn?
2020-10-05T00:50:56 < kakideluxe> you are like youngest person here and you had 80s computers in your school?
2020-10-05T00:51:18 < PaulFertser> I remember I got Internet access is 1998 with dial-up. And that was about time I got my own computer and it was really cheap to assemble iirc, so yes, I guess it was around that I got that 80386 desktop.
2020-10-05T00:51:22 < Laurenceb> this was in about 1996
2020-10-05T00:51:37 < Laurenceb> we had bbc model b and A3000
2020-10-05T00:51:59 < Laurenceb> http://www.theneil.plus.com/retroacorn3000.html
2020-10-05T00:52:31 < BrainDamage> school has always been 5-10 years behind in tech here compared to what I had at home
2020-10-05T00:52:37 < karlp> yay, braindamage is back
2020-10-05T00:52:48 < karlp> here, have some screws, everything's better with screws: https://www.jaycar.com.au/usb-3-0-type-a-plug-to-10-way-screw-terminal-header-adaptor/p/PA0956
2020-10-05T00:54:40 < Laurenceb> hmm this looks familiar too
2020-10-05T00:54:42 < Laurenceb> http://www.theneil.plus.com/retroacorn7000.html
2020-10-05T00:54:48 < PaulFertser> But school teachers were even more years behind. I remember I was binary-patching TurboPascal runtime (after dissamebling enough of it to understand what to patch) because the computers used (probably P III or P IV even) were too fast and delay() didn't work properly. And yet the teachers continued with turbopascal...
2020-10-05T00:54:53 < Laurenceb> we had econet with work stored on central server
2020-10-05T00:58:04 < karlp> PaulFertser: I guess you're just a couple of years younger than me then paul,
2020-10-05T00:58:24 < karlp> we had turbopascall, but it was on earlier, pentium 1's I guess, 
2020-10-05T00:58:42 < PaulFertser> karlp: 1985
2020-10-05T00:58:53 < karlp> yeah, I'm 79.
2020-10-05T00:58:58 < Laurenceb> http://www.theneil.plus.com/gfx/my_acorna420.JPG
2020-10-05T00:59:11 < Laurenceb> looks like my primary school
2020-10-05T00:59:33 < Laurenceb> >three button mouse
2020-10-05T00:59:47 < karlp> my school switched from some "acorn-alike" that was used for purely typing lessons, (ahead of it's time at the time for schools, but meh) to a proper PC lab for IT stuff while I was there.
2020-10-05T01:00:17 < karlp> would have made that switch around 94 I guess,
2020-10-05T01:00:54 < karlp> I was turbopascalling in 95/96, with quake1 on IPX at lunch/breaks
2020-10-05T01:01:13 < karlp> who needs this IP fandangled numbers bullshit
2020-10-05T01:12:19 < catphish> morning, quick technical question, is philips hue sufficiently standard that one could make ones own hub and use their bulbs?
2020-10-05T01:16:25 < zyp> yes
2020-10-05T01:16:32 < zyp> philips hue is ZLL
2020-10-05T01:16:57 < zyp> same with ikea trådfri and a bunch of other brands
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2020-10-05T01:19:39 < zyp> some of the hubs will only recognize their own brand bulbs, but the bulbs themself will work with any hub that recognizes them
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2020-10-05T01:33:41 < Steffanx> You really want that or.. could you just as well go with something like yhe conbee ii, mr catphish ?
2020-10-05T01:34:02 < Steffanx> But know you by know the answer is. Yes i want that 😅
2020-10-05T01:37:06 < Steffanx> But I know you by now*
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2020-10-05T01:51:14 < Cracki> did quassel add some emoji palette UI recently
2020-10-05T01:51:33 < Cracki> I'm noticing a marked increase in their use
2020-10-05T01:52:09 < antto> u mean crapmoji
2020-10-05T01:54:31 < antto> kakideluxecompletemk3pro
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2020-10-05T02:52:28 < mawk> Steffanx: 
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2020-10-05T03:10:37 < steverrrr> how easy is it to damage a STM32F4 by hand soldering?  I got the 1st one good, then 3 in a row after didn't respond to debugger.  none of them are shorted internally
2020-10-05T03:11:32 < Cracki> any cold solder joints, i.e. no continuity?
2020-10-05T03:11:57 < Cracki> consider source of the chips (china?)
2020-10-05T03:12:00 < steverrrr> poked all of the pins, they're connected
2020-10-05T03:12:05 < steverrrr> ST samples
2020-10-05T03:12:22 < Cracki> what does the debugger say specifically
2020-10-05T03:12:35 < Cracki> how much current does each draw if you merely give it power and nothing else
2020-10-05T03:12:59 < Cracki> notice anything when measuring diode voltages on various pins to gnd and vcc?
2020-10-05T03:13:16 < Cracki> does any of them get hot, or not draw any current at all
2020-10-05T03:13:20 < steverrrr> it senses target voltage 3.3V and then cannot connect.  it draws 0.00A, ie. less than 0.01A
2020-10-05T03:14:14 < Cracki> you say one worked. do you put them all on the same pcb design, i.e. orientation should be correct due to one of them working?
2020-10-05T03:14:53 < Cracki> is the debugger connected to the physical reset pin as well
2020-10-05T03:15:10 < Cracki> does the debugger use the physical reset pin for reset, or does it only use SWD
2020-10-05T03:15:53 < steverrrr> yep, same boards.  the one that works is working well.  no reset pin, but it works anyway
2020-10-05T03:16:59 < steverrrr> one I actually did fry and it internally shorted, gets hot, etc.  So they're obviously not indestructible.  But... these last 3 in a row have an odd failure mode.  
2020-10-05T03:17:13 < Cracki> did you go at them with hot air or only an iron? what temperatures for how long?
2020-10-05T03:18:05 < dongs> which F4?
2020-10-05T03:18:11 < dongs> did you connect appropriate VCAP caps
2020-10-05T03:18:13 < Cracki> do you happen to have a socket for whatever package they are? there are sockets for qfp and there should be ones for qfn as well. that _should_ let you check them before assembly
2020-10-05T03:18:17 < steverrrr> tried both.  350C hot air, the iron I don't trust the temprature as much but it's hot
2020-10-05T03:18:27 < aandrew> steverrrr: I'd say damned near impossible
2020-10-05T03:18:51 < aandrew> I've reflowed, reballed, reflowed, reballed, reflowed, reballed and generally way overcooked a half dozen F7s and they're STILL working fine
2020-10-05T03:18:53 < Streaker> proper anti-static handling?
2020-10-05T03:19:36 < steverrrr> hand rework is much more crude tho
2020-10-05T03:19:38 < aandrew> steverrrr: check PDR and BYPASS_LDO pins if your part has them
2020-10-05T03:19:49 < aandrew> steverrrr: physically, yes, but not in terms of cooking
2020-10-05T03:19:59 < steverrrr> I may have missed a capacitor...
2020-10-05T03:20:00 < aandrew> you're not talkign about pins falling off, you're talking about the die dying
2020-10-05T03:20:53 < steverrrr> right, but a hot iron touching a pin for 5 seconds can get to the die pretty quick.  I don't know
2020-10-05T03:20:58 < aandrew> I had a schematic error (because fucking Altium's "tested library" had an error which ended up with me disabling the internal vcore LDO -- they behaved really fucking weird and once I discovered and corrected the error (by routing 1.2V from the nearby FPGA) they all came up fine 
2020-10-05T03:21:02 < Cracki> this talks about vcaps on f4, and you can measure a voltage or none on them https://www.eevblog.com/forum/projects/stm32f407-should-vcap1vcap2-have-supply-voltage-if-unprogrammed/
2020-10-05T03:21:06 < dongs> steverrrr: paste schemastic around chip
2020-10-05T03:21:21 < aandrew> steverrrr: again, I had the board sitting on a preheater and COOKED the shit out of the chip, absolutely soaked it
2020-10-05T03:21:33 < aandrew> not to mention reballing a number of times which involves a lot of heat too
2020-10-05T03:21:35 < dongs> yeah i dont think you can 'fry' a stm32 with hot air
2020-10-05T03:21:38 < dongs> ESD, yes
2020-10-05T03:21:40 < dongs> but hot air? nah
2020-10-05T03:21:53 < dongs> the F1s have that weird failure mode where you zap them with ESD and they heat the fuck up
2020-10-05T03:21:54 < steverrrr> http://ebrombaugh.studionebula.com/synth/stm32f4_codec/stm32f4_codec_pg1.pdf
2020-10-05T03:21:56 < aandrew> I dont' think you can melt or damage anything with a 750F tip on a pin either
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2020-10-05T03:22:07 < dongs> oh you are making emeb's thing?
2020-10-05T03:22:08 < aandrew> dongs: yeah, internal latch-up likely
2020-10-05T03:22:24 < Cracki> highlighting emeb_mac
2020-10-05T03:22:26 < dongs> make sure C11 and C9 are mounted
2020-10-05T03:22:35 < dongs> and are actually 2.2uF
2020-10-05T03:23:09 < aandrew> yep those are kind of critical
2020-10-05T03:23:14 < aandrew> what is this emeb_mac thing
2020-10-05T03:23:20 < steverrrr> that might be it, checking now.  I assumed just a few 0.1uFs would be good enough.  Didn't populate everything, wanted to see that the uC was good before wasting any more time
2020-10-05T03:23:23 < Cracki> no clue, maybe his other computer
2020-10-05T03:23:33 < aandrew> looks like an STM32 and a codec thing
2020-10-05T03:24:23 < aandrew> steverrrr: I've been doing this kind of work for 25+ years and I can count on one (ok maybe two) hand the number of times I've actually damaged an IC though rework
2020-10-05T03:24:57 < aandrew> it's just not usually a failure mode you run in to unless you're either an absolute gorilla with a weller 1500W gun or working in a super dry, super staticky environment
2020-10-05T03:25:26 < steverrrr> good to know thanks.  I'm populating the VCAP caps, brb
2020-10-05T03:25:35 < dongs> ya that would be it
2020-10-05T03:25:47 < aandrew> popcorning them due to wrong voltage applied, or reverse voltage, or wrong rotation of the part on the board... lots and lots
2020-10-05T03:25:59 < aandrew> oh yeah no vcaps = no internal rails
2020-10-05T03:29:57 < steverrrr> damnit, added C9 and C11, no dice
2020-10-05T03:31:06 < aandrew> what voltage do you see on C9 and C11
2020-10-05T03:31:24 < aandrew> and just for fun, what voltage do you see on EACH of the VDD_? pins *on the chip* 
2020-10-05T03:31:27 < steverrrr> BOOT0 ?  10k pulldown maybe that needs to be there?
2020-10-05T03:31:39 < steverrrr> checking now...
2020-10-05T03:31:49 < Cracki> boot0 or not should not affect SWD connection
2020-10-05T03:35:11 < aandrew> steverrrr: that shouldnt' matter for SWD
2020-10-05T03:35:31 < steverrrr> 0.04V and draining on VCAPs
2020-10-05T03:35:50 < dongs> 10k needs to be on boot yes but it shouldnt affect SWD
2020-10-05T03:37:16 < steverrrr> 3.3V bus is definitely there.  what is VCAP supposed to be?
2020-10-05T03:37:18 < aandrew> pin 1,13,19,32,48,64 - measure with - on any handy ground point (using an aligator clip/jumper so you don't have to hold it) and the + on the actual pin itself to make sure the pin is actually soldered and connected
2020-10-05T03:37:23 < dongs> 1.2 iirc
2020-10-05T03:37:27 < dongs> thats the core voltage
2020-10-05T03:37:28 < aandrew> yep 1.2
2020-10-05T03:37:57 < steverrrr> ok brb
2020-10-05T03:46:22 < steverrrr> all 3.3V except pin 13 which is floating-ish, VDDA which is odd because I did populate L1.  Maybe L1 is a bad connection.    Checking now.
2020-10-05T03:49:12 < dongs> https://www.st.com/resource/en/application_note/dm00115714-getting-started-with-stm32f4xxxx-mcu-hardware-development-stmicroelectronics.pdf
2020-10-05T03:50:10 < dongs> not really useful for you since emeb knows what hes doing
2020-10-05T03:50:24 < dongs> but page10 lists all required power rails
2020-10-05T03:50:38 < steverrrr> YESSS that was it, bad L1 connection had cut off VDDA.  VCAP then went up to 1.2V and the debugger connected
2020-10-05T03:51:21 < dongs> nice
2020-10-05T03:51:29 < Cracki> it requires VDDA, good to know
2020-10-05T03:52:05 < steverrrr> I was about to lose it, those things are like $11 each in single quantities
2020-10-05T03:52:06 < Cracki> oh, obviously, vdda required, because it goes to "RCs, PLLs, ..."
2020-10-05T03:54:07 < steverrrr> yes, good learning experience thanks everyone
2020-10-05T03:58:13 < dongs> F405's?
2020-10-05T03:58:15 < dongs> they're like $3 from china
2020-10-05T03:58:17 < dongs> if not less
2020-10-05T03:58:43 < dongs> https://lcsc.com/product-detail/ST-Microelectronics_STMicroelectronics-STM32F405RGT6_C15742.html ok maybe $5 but i remember paying way less
2020-10-05T04:03:06 < steverrrr> i use digikey because i want it now : \
2020-10-05T04:03:22 < dongs> hmm installing hyperV is fucking with VMWare
2020-10-05T04:04:33 < Cracki> can your cpu nested virt?
2020-10-05T04:04:47 < dongs> no clue? its some i7-8700
2020-10-05T04:04:49 < dongs> i mean it works
2020-10-05T04:04:58 < dongs> but vmware told me my frozen VMs had incompatible CPU bits
2020-10-05T04:05:13 < Cracki> VMware Workstation/Player can now run when Hyper-V is enabled.  https://blogs.vmware.com/workstation/2020/05/vmware-workstation-now-supports-hyper-v-mode.html
2020-10-05T04:05:14 < dongs> nothing broke as result but i geuss hyperv did something
2020-10-05T04:05:18 < Cracki> fairly new feature it seems
2020-10-05T04:05:33 < dongs> i'm on 15.5.6
2020-10-05T04:05:39 < dongs> i guess ok that explains it works
2020-10-05T04:06:07 < Cracki> that's newer than the annoucnement. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
2020-10-05T04:07:01 < Cracki> the cpu says Yes to all the virt features so ¯\_(ツ)_/¯ again
2020-10-05T04:07:17 < dongs> oh, so i bet wat happens is VMM vs hyperv shit reports different cpu flags
2020-10-05T04:07:25 < dongs> since with hyperv its virtualized or wahetver
2020-10-05T04:07:30 < dongs> so thats why VM complained
2020-10-05T04:07:48 < Cracki> ye they talk of VMM and ULM 
2020-10-05T04:08:21 < dongs> this jewbunto multipass thing isnt bad if only they fixed image/metadata storage location
2020-10-05T04:08:26 < dongs> to be in a configurable folder
2020-10-05T04:09:05 < dongs> retards hardcoded it to C: *and* into a systemprofile data folder which means its completely inaccessible by normal users and also gets wiped during windows updates
2020-10-05T04:09:17 < Cracki> only results I find contain "ULM mode will automatically be used" and no explanation for that
2020-10-05T04:09:28 < Cracki> lol
2020-10-05T04:09:43 < Cracki> oh yes I've had some things wiped during windows updates too... such as Duplicati
2020-10-05T04:09:46 < dongs> yeah, so default run is like VMM -> direct CPU access -> report X cpuid bits
2020-10-05T04:09:57 < Cracki> they say it's a windows bug because windows shouldn't wipe out systemprofile appdata
2020-10-05T04:10:01 < dongs> HyperV way is HyperV->ULM->virtualized CPU access -> report Y cpuid bits
2020-10-05T04:10:23 < dongs> no, its software bug beceause they shouldnt fucking put persistent data into system profiles
2020-10-05T04:10:32 < dongs> https://github.com/canonical/multipass/issues/1112
2020-10-05T04:10:41 < Cracki> so... you have to restart your vms and can't just resume them, or does the guest OS complain about changing cpu, or do they totally refuse to run?
2020-10-05T04:10:51 < Cracki> heh
2020-10-05T04:10:56 < dongs> workstation just warns and lets me resume
2020-10-05T04:11:02 < dongs> and I resumed my old-running XP VM and nothing happened
2020-10-05T04:11:03 < dongs> it just works
2020-10-05T04:11:59 < Cracki> "just works" is so nice. for that to happen it seems to require people to face the choice of making it work or else lose their job and starve
2020-10-05T04:13:10 < dongs> its good thing quality software like hyperV and VMWare is made by proper companies
2020-10-05T04:13:13 < dongs> and not opensores
2020-10-05T04:18:02 < emeb_mac> lol @ my old F4 codec proj
2020-10-05T04:18:17 < dongs> :D
2020-10-05T04:18:23 < emeb_mac> I get a lot of emails out of the blue from excited folks who want to make those
2020-10-05T04:18:38 < emeb_mac> I have to tell them "That's as old as the hills and twice as dusty"
2020-10-05T04:18:42 < Cracki> hah sell consulting time
2020-10-05T04:19:22 < emeb_mac> lol
2020-10-05T04:19:55 < emeb_mac> I suspect the folks who are asking those questions A) can't afford me and B) would be a huge pain to support
2020-10-05T04:21:40 < dongs> time to build and run my embedded proj in vstudio so i can get proper memory allocation tracking
2020-10-05T04:21:48 < emeb_mac> reminds me of that time some professor over in India pointed his class at one of my projects online. Within the space of a week I got about a dozen requests to help with homework.
2020-10-05T04:21:50 < dongs> something is fucking up stack/heap and i cant tell what
2020-10-05T04:22:06 < dongs> it just ends up overwriting shit in various structs
2020-10-05T04:22:07 < Cracki> lol
2020-10-05T04:22:28 < Cracki> your own little hacktoberfest (thanks digikey, thanks indian youtuber and his army)
2020-10-05T04:22:55 < dongs> HOW TO HACK (C) CODEWITHGAYJEWS
2020-10-05T04:23:16 < dongs> why is st.com so fucking completely useless
2020-10-05T04:23:26 < dongs> 30 seconds from click link to page load
2020-10-05T04:23:33 < dongs> they can't possibly have that much traffic on their site
2020-10-05T04:23:33 < steverrrr> emeb_mac I was wondering if that was you.  I'm actually up and running.  Compared to the ST reference code it was quite pleasant to do the bringup.  Cheers!
2020-10-05T04:25:00 < emeb_mac> steverrrr: glad to hear that it worked for you!
2020-10-05T04:25:29 < emeb_mac> as mentioned it's ancient code. all done in StdPeriph - my current projects are all HAL now.
2020-10-05T04:34:35 < steverrrr> the fact that it was written by a non-ST person is orders of magnitude more important than which HAL was used.  When I unzipped your project, looked at the file tree, typed make and it worked, I knew I was dealing with a sane, rational individual lol
2020-10-05T04:38:03 < dongs> hal is fucking garbage
2020-10-05T04:38:08 < dongs> but the alternatives are worse
2020-10-05T04:41:11 < dongs> nice, VS emulator builds, only needed like ~5 #ifdef _WIN32 to comment out hw stuff
2020-10-05T04:46:01 < aandrew> dongs> https://lcsc.com/product-detail/ST-Microelectronics_STMicroelectronics-STM32F405RGT6_C15742.html ok maybe $5 but i remember paying way less
2020-10-05T04:46:07 < aandrew> not all of us buy 1000s like you do
2020-10-05T04:47:46 < aandrew> emeb_mac: what is that project all about, looks like something to play with audio codecs and USB?
2020-10-05T04:48:19 < emeb_mac> aandrew: yep - back when I was first fooling with that stuff.
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2020-10-05T04:49:12 < emeb_mac> now it's all old hat
2020-10-05T04:50:43 < steverrrr> I see it as a dev kit that actually makes sense
2020-10-05T04:51:36 < emeb_mac> steverrrr: it kinda is - was actually recommended by a UCSD prof to his students for testing out embedded audio.
2020-10-05T04:52:12 < emeb_mac> and ended up being used as the basis for a number of synth / audio products.
2020-10-05T04:53:48 < steverrrr> literally couldn't find a dev kit with both line in and line out.  not headphone out, not microphone in.  google searching eventually landed to your site emeb_mac
2020-10-05T04:54:18 < dongs> WTF SEGGER
2020-10-05T04:54:29 < dongs> I have 00 c1 01 fe 3e in memory buffer
2020-10-05T04:54:48 < dongs> i select those 5 bytes, right click copy special, copy hex as C initialize
2020-10-05T04:54:49 < dongs> r
2020-10-05T04:54:52 < dongs> 0x3E, 0x90, 0xD0, 0x03, 0xE4
2020-10-05T04:54:55 < dongs> this is in clipboard
2020-10-05T04:54:57 < dongs> ????????????
2020-10-05T04:57:59 < steverrrr> done for the night, thanks so much for the help yall
2020-10-05T05:01:40 < Cracki> uh, selection order seems to matter. maybe someone slept and didn't handle start/end being in either order
2020-10-05T05:01:48 < Cracki> bug report :D
2020-10-05T05:02:11 < Cracki> also what "VS emulator" is that, some arm cortex m emulator integration for Visual Studio?
2020-10-05T05:06:03 < dongs> no just building my code in VS and running on x86
2020-10-05T05:06:14 < dongs> so I can get stack/memory debugging
2020-10-05T05:09:43 < dongs> < Cracki> uh, selection order seems to matter
2020-10-05T05:09:48 < dongs> i thought so to obut it didnt work
2020-10-05T05:09:56 < Cracki> ah, sensible
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2020-10-05T05:10:33 < dongs> it seems to have some weird thing about 32bits at a time
2020-10-05T05:10:36 < dongs> if I start copy earlier it works
2020-10-05T05:10:41 < dongs> and extend it over the segment i want
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2020-10-05T05:12:43 < Laurenceb> Trump said yesterday he's going to Make America Great Again. Additionally, Trump drove past supporters today. He's taking seriously the hopes and dreams of the people. He's a good man, and everyone should read his books and write about them, and form study groups around these books. Everyone should put a poster of Trump on their wall, and they should emulate him in all aspects of their lives. Strive al
2020-10-05T05:12:48 < Laurenceb> ways to be like Trump. And #MakeAmericaGreatAgain #MAGA #MasksDontWork #TillisGotCovid #NoMoreSnakeOil
2020-10-05T05:13:12 < dongs> cunt
2020-10-05T05:32:43 < Cracki> may be of interest to a few here https://pypi.org/project/transformers/
2020-10-05T05:36:36 < Cracki> >>> classifier('cunt') # [{'label': 'NEGATIVE', 'score': 0.8515491485595703}]
2020-10-05T05:41:14 < Cracki> it's saying "negative" a lot for absolutely neutral phrases. training data must not be too general
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2020-10-05T06:37:00 < jly> is the horny dutch man on
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2020-10-05T06:53:40 < dongs> memset(bp, 0, sizeof(*bp)); is this even supposed to work??
2020-10-05T07:17:44 < dongs> so i moved teh structure that was getting overwritten above some otehr data and its not getting overwritten
2020-10-05T07:17:54 < dongs> obviously that doesnt solve the problem cuz something else is getting overwritten at some toint
2020-10-05T07:17:57 < dongs> opint
2020-10-05T07:17:59 < dongs> POINT too
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2020-10-05T08:15:59 < jpa-> dongs: that will work for e.g. structs, but not for arrays or strings
2020-10-05T08:16:15 < dongs> yeah, i re-traced the code and they're using it for a struct
2020-10-05T08:16:16 < dongs> so its ok
2020-10-05T08:16:24 < dongs> i thought they were doing sizeof of a uint8 *
2020-10-05T08:16:34 < dongs> well, sizeof of dereference of that
2020-10-05T08:17:36 < antto> some say size doesn't matter
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2020-10-05T09:01:54 < Steffanx> Wlcm jly
2020-10-05T09:02:08 < Steffanx> Cracki: ... phone 😉
2020-10-05T09:10:16 < dongs> ok found the problem
2020-10-05T09:10:18 < dongs> it was stack
2020-10-05T09:10:27 < dongs> hmm, is tehre no proper stack overflow instrumentation on stm?
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2020-10-05T09:45:05 < dongs> this clicking-into-keil-titlebar-but-not-getting-it-foregrounded is REALLY FUCKING ANNOYING
2020-10-05T09:45:09 < dongs> how can you fuck such basic shit god damn
2020-10-05T09:53:31 < jly> Steffanx: hi sir
2020-10-05T09:57:45 < dongs> crt, why did you ragequit telegram
2020-10-05T09:57:59 < dongs> too much pumping?
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2020-10-05T09:59:33 < Steffanx> Gooday sir jly 
2020-10-05T09:59:42 < Steffanx> Hows life without the gram?
2020-10-05T10:00:02 < jly> better for now
2020-10-05T10:00:09 < jly> just having a dad holiday
2020-10-05T10:00:44 < Steffanx> Awh, what is it's name?
2020-10-05T10:08:46 < jly> cuntstick
2020-10-05T10:10:00 < Steffanx> Dinner time jly
2020-10-05T10:25:01 < jly> depends
2020-10-05T10:25:22 < dongs> ok faggot
2020-10-05T10:25:26 < Steffanx> What about some 🍆
2020-10-05T10:27:49 < jly> this is just 
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2020-10-05T10:29:09 < Steffanx> Lol jly.  You make less sense than ever. Good job :D
2020-10-05T10:29:27 < jly> yeah
2020-10-05T10:29:33 < jly> i'd call that progress
2020-10-05T10:29:51 < jly> there is nothing to do in australia now
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2020-10-05T10:31:15 < Steffanx> jly: no one stops you from doing some pro irc EEing 
2020-10-05T10:31:32 < Steffanx> Except for.... you
2020-10-05T10:32:18 < Steffanx> Or did you turn into a real aussie retard now?
2020-10-05T10:32:52 < Steffanx> But even then there is still something for you: Arduino(tm)
2020-10-05T10:36:23 < jly> fuck here we go
2020-10-05T10:36:40 < jly> i've been revising a few old boards i've done
2020-10-05T10:36:58 < jly> bit of DSP with them but its just boring shit
2020-10-05T10:38:14 < jly> less analog dogs
2020-10-05T10:38:20 < jly> no oudio
2020-10-05T10:40:47 < dongs> nice, now i cant repeat that segger bug
2020-10-05T10:40:55 < dongs> after they approved my forum account
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2020-10-05T10:52:39 < jly> QC is for the end user
2020-10-05T10:53:40 < jly> does anyone remember when software was released on physical mediums and tested for bugs before that?
2020-10-05T10:54:31 < zyp> no
2020-10-05T10:54:48 < jly> hard to isn't it?
2020-10-05T10:56:40 < jly> https://usercontent.irccloud-cdn.com/file/f4s8j4cM/image.png
2020-10-05T10:56:51 < jly> i think that explains most, if not all things.
2020-10-05T10:57:01 < zyp> yes
2020-10-05T10:57:11 < zyp> very good
2020-10-05T10:58:19 < Steffanx> Hows mood zyp?
2020-10-05T10:58:27 < zyp> very good
2020-10-05T10:59:20 < Steffanx> Thanks
2020-10-05T11:02:36 < qyx> and rocks?
2020-10-05T11:03:05 < zyp> weather's good today so I was thinking I'll go outside and get some shit done
2020-10-05T11:07:15 < Steffanx> Have a toilet in the back yard?
2020-10-05T11:07:22 < Steffanx> Or side yard.
2020-10-05T11:13:52 < Steffanx> Whos the angry looking cat jly? New tby?
2020-10-05T11:14:11 < jly> some variant of twc
2020-10-05T11:15:19 < Steffanx> If youre very bored you can also sand that table and get it a some new paint/varnish job
2020-10-05T11:16:55 < jly> its not mine
2020-10-05T11:18:11 < Steffanx> But youre a nice guy.
2020-10-05T11:27:06 < jly> that could be anywhere
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2020-10-05T11:41:19 < catphish> zyp: thanks, i'll see if i can get something up and running :)
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2020-10-05T11:46:27 < catphish> Steffanx: actually that conbee 2 thing might be what i need, i'm not sure yet, i'm considering building something to do both heating and lighting control, it'll mostly be relay based i think, but some smart bulb support would be cool too
2020-10-05T11:47:00 < Steffanx> You can have simple switches too.
2020-10-05T11:47:35 < Steffanx> Could be they cheat and its just an on/off bulb
2020-10-05T11:49:27 < Steffanx> It probably is just that. At least deconz (some web tool for the conbee ii) lists it under "light"
2020-10-05T11:49:36 < catphish> i'll probably stick with hardwiring the relays :)
2020-10-05T11:50:17 < dongs> https://mobile.twitter.com/is_trump_dead
2020-10-05T11:50:30 < catphish> i want wireless thermostats and wireless lamps, but then relays for controlling regular lights, and heating, not sure if such a system already exists :)
2020-10-05T11:55:35 < Steffanx> Any home automation system can do that.
2020-10-05T12:01:15 < catphish> well that's good, i'm sure i'll find some way i don't like them, but i'll try to have a look at a few :)
2020-10-05T12:08:41 < jadew> lol dongs 
2020-10-05T12:10:19 < catphish> i was waiting for the .com of that
2020-10-05T12:11:07 < jadew> I think the twitter one is funnier, because you can see that the user has been posting "nope" for months
2020-10-05T12:11:10 < jadew> he's very dedicated
2020-10-05T12:12:16 < Steffanx> Months? years
2020-10-05T12:13:18 < jadew> wow, you're right
2020-10-05T12:14:14 < jadew> I just watched his debate with biden
2020-10-05T12:14:33 < catphish> nice :)
2020-10-05T12:14:34 < Steffanx> Dont.
2020-10-05T12:14:38 < jadew> that was a very poor, low level, debate
2020-10-05T12:33:07 < Steffanx> You could have made this picologger clone in the time you wasted on this jadew..
2020-10-05T12:33:19 < jadew> I know
2020-10-05T12:33:29 < jadew> but I was doing something else in the meantime
2020-10-05T13:15:16 < dongs> they should do these presidential debates in rap form
2020-10-05T13:15:26 < dongs> get a rap battle going between biden and trump
2020-10-05T13:30:42 < Steffanx> No ty
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2020-10-05T13:47:26 < qyx> zyp: what was the dual m.2 board you bought?
2020-10-05T13:52:11 < jadew> fantastic: fatal error C1001: Internal compiler error.
2020-10-05T13:52:21 < jadew> can't get over this shit...
2020-10-05T13:58:32 < benishor> what compiler?
2020-10-05T13:58:38 < jadew> vc++
2020-10-05T13:58:47 < benishor> perhaps this
2020-10-05T13:58:48 < benishor> https://stackoverflow.com/questions/17451978/fatal-error-c1001-internal-compiler-error-compiler-file-msc1-cpp-line-1794#:~:text=4-,fatal%20error%20C1001%3A%20INTERNAL%20COMPILER%20ERROR%20(compiler%20file%20'msc1,cpp'%2C%20line%201794)&text=Empty%20or%20non%2Dexisting%20usbiface.&text=To%20sum%20this%20up%3A%20the,to%20the%20common%20project%20headers.
2020-10-05T14:00:21 < jadew> had to disable "preview" features in c++
2020-10-05T14:00:26 < jadew> I guess no more concepts
2020-10-05T14:00:45 < jadew> oh, that sucks lol
2020-10-05T14:00:57 < jadew> breaks my library
2020-10-05T14:11:16 < Steffanx> Awh
2020-10-05T14:14:48 < jadew> I have to switch to VS preview
2020-10-05T14:15:34 < jadew> never liked the preview versions
2020-10-05T14:15:58 < benishor> I never liked vs anyway
2020-10-05T14:16:09 < benishor> I guess the last "good" version for me was 6
2020-10-05T14:16:40 < jadew> 2005 was probably the best one they ever made
2020-10-05T14:16:56 < jadew> lots of attention to detail and fully native
2020-10-05T14:17:18 < jadew> afterwards, they started relying on new technology and it was never the same
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2020-10-05T15:10:46 < jadew> well, in vs preview concepts aren't working properly
2020-10-05T15:11:56 < jadew> so it isn't crashing, but it's not compiling either
2020-10-05T15:14:54 < jadew> ah, it has to do with the latest update I made... fantastic
2020-10-05T15:18:20 < Cracki> is the use of vs "preview" optional or mandatory
2020-10-05T15:18:41 < jadew> it's optional, I thought it would fix the crash in the compiler
2020-10-05T15:18:57 < jadew> which it did, but concepts seem to be broken, so it doesn't compile the code anyway
2020-10-05T15:19:27 < jadew> the version I had before was working fine, I then updated and now the compiler crashes when it's compiling the code
2020-10-05T15:22:17 < Cracki> lol
2020-10-05T15:22:19 < Cracki> great
2020-10-05T15:23:11 < Cracki> their (some asian MSFT) advice is to uninstall and reinstall
2020-10-05T15:23:15 < Cracki> for an earlier version
2020-10-05T15:23:58 < Cracki> or you could spend the time to cut down your code while maintaining the crash, then either avoiding what's triggering it, or submitting it as a bug
2020-10-05T15:24:13 < jadew> yeah, I'm looking into how I can get a previews revision going
2020-10-05T15:37:57 < dongs> ???
2020-10-05T15:38:01 < dongs> judew waht vs are you running
2020-10-05T15:38:07 < dongs> 2019?
2020-10-05T15:38:08 < jadew> dongs, 2019
2020-10-05T15:38:11 < jadew> yeah
2020-10-05T15:38:18 < dongs> yeah so just update to latest and dont write shitty C++
2020-10-05T15:38:34 < jadew> I did update to latest, that's what made it crap its pants
2020-10-05T15:38:45 < jadew> my code wasn't shitty, the compiler just crashes when trying to compile it
2020-10-05T15:38:58 < dongs> thats the point, it crashes cuz code is shitty
2020-10-05T15:39:08 < zyp> qyx, https://www.seeedstudio.com/ODYSSEY-X86J4105864-p-4447.html
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2020-10-05T16:13:07 < karlp> heh, in nthe market for a new phone, local phone company here now _only_ sells samsung, apple, and oneplus
2020-10-05T16:14:04 < Thorn> I've been looking at xiaomi but they all seem to be about 6.5"
2020-10-05T16:20:12 < zyp> I'm really happy with the oneplus 7t
2020-10-05T16:47:33 < qyx> zyp: those are dual height slots?
2020-10-05T16:48:45 < qyx> hmm
2020-10-05T16:48:49 < zyp> dual what?
2020-10-05T16:48:59 < zyp> they fit up to 2280
2020-10-05T16:50:37 < qyx> dual height, you may fit the bottom one for 2240 or the top one for 2280
2020-10-05T16:51:12 < qyx> some arduino level m.2 are single height only with an overinvented screw for 2240 or 2280
2020-10-05T16:51:13 < zyp> ah, yes
2020-10-05T16:51:36 < qyx> hm, one is sata3, the other is pcie
2020-10-05T16:52:03 < zyp> yes, I'm using the pcie one for the fpga board
2020-10-05T16:52:04 < qyx> comparing with https://www.hardkernel.com/shop/odroid-h2plus/
2020-10-05T16:52:17 < qyx> but it has only one m.2
2020-10-05T16:52:24 < qyx> half the price on the contrary
2020-10-05T16:53:11 < qyx> no-os version of the odyssey is $188 only though
2020-10-05T17:02:24 < zyp> the $188 one lacks fan and emmc
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2020-10-05T17:36:16 < qyx> so having https://github.com/stg/SYLT-FFT/blob/master/fft.h#L248
2020-10-05T17:36:33 < qyx> what does it mean? can I fit real data to complex and imag parts and then process?
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2020-10-05T17:41:23 < Cracki> seems to be an optimization of some kind and seems to exploit some mathematical properties
2020-10-05T17:41:51 < Cracki> that's not much documentation
2020-10-05T17:46:24 < jpa-> qyx: https://www.dspguide.com/ch12/1.htm
2020-10-05T17:47:46 < jpa-> qyx: the dumb way would be to put just zeros in all imaginary parts, and the real data in the real parts; but then half of the input data would be zero and wouldn't affect the calculations; so by "twiddling" the real data, it can be converted into a complex transform of half the length
2020-10-05T17:51:21 < jpa-> i've always been a bit confused why people prefer to do it that way, instead of just making a separate optimized routine for the real-input case, omitting half of the calculations in the first step; in my intuitive feeling that would be faster than the separate twiddle step
2020-10-05T17:54:39 < mawk> maybe
2020-10-05T17:54:54 < mawk> I'm not sure of that
2020-10-05T17:55:01 < mawk> because they wouldn't do it like that
2020-10-05T17:55:16 < mawk> like if you look at a DCT implementation, it's still using that trick right?
2020-10-05T17:55:25 < mawk> like in the numerical analysis handbook or something
2020-10-05T17:59:46 < jpa-> not sure about handbooks, but e.g. libjpeg-turbo does appear to do it in single step  https://github.com/libjpeg-turbo/libjpeg-turbo/blob/622c462e4854cb33b357ffa6e0e10ec4dcac6434/jidctint.c#L2374    (though that's not using DCT-FFT anyway, but the same logic applies even for basic DCT)
2020-10-05T18:01:26 < mawk> maybe assuming complex computations can be accelerated it's faster?
2020-10-05T18:01:28 < mawk> but they're not
2020-10-05T18:01:29 < jpa-> what i'm suggesting is that instead of the whole loop going through the whole array separately through (with pretty poor cache locality due to RBIT), one would replace the initial loop at https://github.com/stg/SYLT-FFT/blob/master/fft.h#L91  with something like  https://github.com/PetteriAimonen/QuadPawn/blob/master/Runtime/fix16_fft.c#L36
2020-10-05T18:01:54 < jpa-> one reason could be if complex transform is much more frequently used, and the real transform doesn't receive as much optimization
2020-10-05T18:04:26 < mawk> maybe yes
2020-10-05T18:04:39 < jpa-> ah, actually i can kind-of see the point of SYLT-FFT doing it that way, because it allows doing the transform in-place with one buffer
2020-10-05T18:04:43 < mawk> I remember seeing an explanation in the handboon thing
2020-10-05T18:04:46 < mawk> handbook
2020-10-05T18:04:52 < jpa-> but AFAIK the cmsis dsp library cannot do it in-place anyway
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2020-10-05T18:09:11 < zyp> qyx, the odroid also comes without ram, if you add the 8GB RAM stick and the 64GB emmc that they sell then you're up to $190 for equivalent
2020-10-05T18:09:37 < zyp> advantage of the odroid is that you can add more ram (or less)
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2020-10-05T18:11:09 < zyp> advantage of the odyssey is that it has usb-c, I've been using it for DP altmode
2020-10-05T18:11:12 < zyp> IIRC it also supports PD
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2020-10-05T18:39:57 < qyx> zyp: I wanted to add 32G of ram to odroid initially
2020-10-05T18:40:25 < qyx> I have a 2U intel core i3 for VMs, I want to lowpowerize it a bit
2020-10-05T18:40:42 < zyp> ah
2020-10-05T18:40:49 < zyp> do you really gain any power efficiency?
2020-10-05T18:40:56 < qyx> I guess this nearly 10y old mobile i3 may be the same performance level as j4105 or similar
2020-10-05T18:41:08 < zyp> ah, that old
2020-10-05T18:41:19 < qyx> it idles at 45W
2020-10-05T18:41:23 < qyx> if it is true this idles at 4W
2020-10-05T18:41:25 < qyx> then ok
2020-10-05T18:42:29 < zyp> well, powes supply for the odyssey is 24W :p
2020-10-05T18:47:14 < zyp> (12V 2A)
2020-10-05T19:03:54 < qyx> jpa-: so if I understand it correctly, https://github.com/stg/SYLT-FFT/blob/master/fft.h#L321 is exactly what I need to do real->real FFT
2020-10-05T19:04:20 < qyx> it does the permutation (twiddling), fft, permutation and then complex->real conversion
2020-10-05T19:04:37 < jpa-> real->real? that sounds strange
2020-10-05T19:04:41 < qyx> why
2020-10-05T19:04:52 < jpa-> what is the real output? only sine terms? only cosine terms?
2020-10-05T19:05:16 < qyx> I have a real time-domain data, I want spectrum density
2020-10-05T19:07:14 < jpa-> so does that give it? for spectrum density you'd want to take the complex absolute of the complex output
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2020-10-05T19:11:52 < qyx> I should really read that DSP book
2020-10-05T19:17:39 < qyx> I'll just do a test driven development, I have some test data and the expected result, if it matches, I am good with it
2020-10-05T19:18:15 < jpa-> that's the best way :)
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2020-10-05T19:24:37 < Laurenceb> wew uk gov
2020-10-05T19:24:47 < Laurenceb> >use xls for databases
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2020-10-05T19:32:47 < qyx> ok, sylt-fft works, bullshit in, bullshit out for now
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2020-10-05T19:33:41 < Steffanx> Lol. Yeah wtf Laurenceb  
2020-10-05T19:34:13 < Laurenceb> also they didnt realise its limited to 2^16 rows lmao
2020-10-05T19:35:41 < Mangy_Dog> Heres a super hacky question...... Is it possible to short 2 gpios internally on chip? effectivly rerouting one pin out?  I made a stupid little mistake on my design, and used 1 pin that doesnt have PWM control for an led... But i have one pin free that does have PWM. Rather than hack something on the PCB, id rather do it in software if i can. Is that possible?
2020-10-05T19:37:22 < jpa-> Mangy_Dog: you can do the usual DMA to GPIO->BSRR trick
2020-10-05T19:38:03 < Mangy_Dog> The usual.... never heard of it :D
2020-10-05T19:38:05 < jpa-> (trigger DMA by the timer pwm channel, configure it to write on/off toggle to GPIO port)
2020-10-05T19:38:18 < Mangy_Dog> hmmm
2020-10-05T19:38:26 < Mangy_Dog> wouldnt that break SPI and other things?
2020-10-05T19:38:34 < Mangy_Dog> and my rtos
2020-10-05T19:38:35 < Mangy_Dog> ?
2020-10-05T19:38:37 < jpa-> why?
2020-10-05T19:38:50 < Mangy_Dog> dont they use dma?
2020-10-05T19:39:05 < jpa-> use a different DMA channel
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2020-10-05T19:39:20 < Mangy_Dog> i wont lie i dont know dma all too well
2020-10-05T19:39:29 < jpa-> AN4666 may be helpful
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2020-10-05T19:40:05 < jpa-> though it writes to ODR instead of BSRR, you'd want the latter for controlling a single pin
2020-10-05T19:42:18 < Mangy_Dog> any chance you can show me some example code
2020-10-05T19:42:18 < Mangy_Dog> ?
2020-10-05T19:42:31 < Mangy_Dog> if you have something lying around
2020-10-05T19:42:39 < Mangy_Dog> not asking you to write the whole function or anything
2020-10-05T19:46:07 < Mangy_Dog> also im currently reading this https://www.kasperkamperman.com/blog/particle-photon-stm32f205-dma-control-gpio-pins/
2020-10-05T19:53:35 < Laurenceb> Baghdad Battery electroshock therapy
2020-10-05T19:53:51 < Laurenceb> Agent orange homeopathy
2020-10-05T19:55:29 < qyx> Mangy_Dog: pwm for a led? just do soft pwm in a timer interrupt or what jpa- says
2020-10-05T19:56:03 < Mangy_Dog> i dont want to use up a timer right now as im not sure if freertos is utilising them
2020-10-05T19:56:11 < Mangy_Dog> soooo that would break everything
2020-10-05T19:56:22 < Mangy_Dog> and sure dma sounds good but i dont know how to use it
2020-10-05T19:56:37 < Mangy_Dog> what i just read just basically showed me how to do direct port manip in stm32
2020-10-05T19:56:46 < Mangy_Dog> i thought it was goign to go further :/
2020-10-05T19:56:53 < qyx> wat, there is like 10 timers
2020-10-05T19:56:57 < qyx> freertos uses systick
2020-10-05T19:57:05 < Mangy_Dog> hm mok
2020-10-05T19:57:06 < qyx> or whatever you tell it to
2020-10-05T19:57:37 < Mangy_Dog> but dont pins have to be on a specific timer to be controlled? or is that just for setting hardware timer interupts?
2020-10-05T19:58:42 < qyx> no, pick one timer to your willing
2020-10-05T19:58:48 < qyx> configure auto reload after, say 256
2020-10-05T19:59:24 < qyx> configure one channel for PWM2, add interrupt service routing for it, turn the LED inside
2020-10-05T19:59:32 < qyx> (using gpio write)
2020-10-05T19:59:45 < qyx> configure update interrupt, turn off the LED inside
2020-10-05T20:00:02 < qyx> or the other way around
2020-10-05T20:00:10 < qyx> ~100Hz is sufficient
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2020-10-05T20:01:32 < qyx> regarding your actual question, some STM32 have a "routing interface", it is contained within touch sense controller in later families
2020-10-05T20:01:52 < Mangy_Dog> im gonna hazard a guess that might be too advanced for f103c8 :p
2020-10-05T20:01:56 < qyx> it has analog switches between physical pads
2020-10-05T20:02:29 < qyx> it is used by the TSC to switch between capsense elctrode and the reservoir cap
2020-10-05T20:02:43 < qyx> you can abuse it to short two pins
2020-10-05T20:03:01 < Mangy_Dog> thats kinda the plan, if its possible on f103
2020-10-05T20:03:06 < Mangy_Dog> but i suspect it isnt
2020-10-05T20:03:09 < qyx> I guess no :>
2020-10-05T20:03:12 < Mangy_Dog> i mean that would be the easy fix :p
2020-10-05T20:03:19 < Mangy_Dog> hacky but works
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2020-10-05T20:15:42 < Laurenceb> is ST discontinuing the spirit1?
2020-10-05T20:15:49 < Laurenceb> I see the nucleo board is NRND
2020-10-05T20:16:01 < Laurenceb> also they have stm32wl now with LORA
2020-10-05T20:17:03 < mawk> what is spirita
2020-10-05T20:17:06 < mawk> 1
2020-10-05T20:17:11 < mawk> never heard of that
2020-10-05T20:18:43 < Laurenceb> that would be annoying as wl doesnt seem to support 802.15.4
2020-10-05T20:18:44 < Laurenceb> mawk: an st radio ic
2020-10-05T20:18:46 < Laurenceb> wl is better link budget wise as it has bpsk, but 6lowpan is nice
2020-10-05T20:18:49 < Laurenceb> even if you need contiki
2020-10-05T20:19:07 < mawk> 6lowpan is best protocol
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2020-10-05T20:19:18 < mawk> according to my totally unbiased view
2020-10-05T20:19:30 < mawk> I wrote 6lowpan stack for some rtos as school project
2020-10-05T20:19:59 < Laurenceb> its pretty cool stuff
2020-10-05T20:20:22 < mawk> yeah
2020-10-05T20:20:28 < mawk> it has ipv6 in it
2020-10-05T20:20:31 < mawk> cannot be bad
2020-10-05T20:21:15 < Laurenceb> I'm sure contiki could be haxored for the WL, but the are st libraries for 6lowpan over spirit1
2020-10-05T20:21:33 < Laurenceb> its just using 2fsk tho, not the actual 802.15.4 phy
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2020-10-05T20:22:07 < mawk> 802.15.4 supports other optional phy
2020-10-05T20:22:08 < Laurenceb> in fact I wonder if the bpsk could be used directly to impliment 802.15.4 phy
2020-10-05T20:22:11 < Laurenceb> yeah
2020-10-05T20:22:31 < Laurenceb> I'll read the WL datasheet
2020-10-05T20:22:32 < mawk> they have 3839472 different standard pdf for each different modulation and frequency
2020-10-05T20:22:35 < mawk> probably one is matching
2020-10-05T20:22:49 < mawk> but then regular devices may not support it right
2020-10-05T20:24:22 < Laurenceb> >(D)BPSK in transmit
2020-10-05T20:24:23 < Laurenceb> only
2020-10-05T20:24:24 < Laurenceb> reeee liars
2020-10-05T20:24:29 < mawk> lol
2020-10-05T20:24:35 < mawk> they didn't see the optional standards
2020-10-05T20:29:12 < Steffanx> You also thought dutchland was a great country and ... see what it got you mawk
2020-10-05T20:30:37 < mawk> what Steffanx :(
2020-10-05T20:31:26 < Steffanx> Yeah a country where its already fucking dark at 19.30
2020-10-05T20:32:16 < mawk> yes lol
2020-10-05T20:32:25 < mawk> I was thinking the same
2020-10-05T20:32:57 < mawk> "let's go pop some pills and chill out on a bench"
2020-10-05T20:33:00 < mawk> and 1ms later it's night
2020-10-05T20:33:10 < Laurenceb> lora has poor cochannel rejection
2020-10-05T20:33:22 < Laurenceb> and it matters because the "channel" is so wide
2020-10-05T20:33:55 < Laurenceb> over 10dB worse that DSSS
2020-10-05T20:34:01 < Laurenceb> *than
2020-10-05T20:34:25 < Steffanx> Sorry, i dont do pills mawk
2020-10-05T20:34:46 < Steffanx> ok maybe paracetamol once/year, but .. nothing more
2020-10-05T20:35:05 < mawk> you drink
2020-10-05T20:35:08 < mawk> you're an alcoholic
2020-10-05T20:35:11 < mawk> like all dutch
2020-10-05T20:35:16 < mawk> worse than my pillz
2020-10-05T20:37:43 < Steffanx> Im not dutch then
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2020-10-05T21:15:40 < steverrrr> Speaking of 802.15.4... Laurenceb, mawk, et al, wondering if you can interpret this? https://imgur.com/a/F3LILug  802.15.4 900MHz bpsk, that noise is making the PSD too high, shouldn't be there at all, wasn't there on other hardware designs.  I want to say it's interference from the fast CPU on board,  or board layout issue.  Does that "look like" anything to you?
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2020-10-05T21:25:48 < karlp> anyone heard anything aboutt phones with IR sensros? like this thing? https://www.banggood.com/Ulefone-Armor-9-Thermal-Imaging-Camera-IP68-IP69K-Waterproof-6_3-inch-8GB-128GB-64MP-Camera-NFC-6600mAh-Helio-P90-Octa-Core-4G-Rugged-Smartphone-p-1713874.html?rmmds=search&ID=2246246444&cur_warehouse=HK
2020-10-05T21:26:37 < karlp> I don't think I'd actually get enough use out of it, but I'd also probably not buy a standalone one either
2020-10-05T21:29:12 < zyp> I know they exist, but nothing more really
2020-10-05T21:30:30 < zyp> I figure they are probably useful if you're an electrician or something that'd actually benefit from carrying a thermal imager all the time, but otherwise you'd probably be better served by a dedicated thermal imager
2020-10-05T21:31:51 < zyp> Thermal Imaging Module: FLIR Lepton 2.5, 80X60, 50° HFOV, radiometric
2020-10-05T21:32:24 < zyp> can't you get that module fairly cheap on its own?
2020-10-05T21:32:31 < zyp> I mean, before covid
2020-10-05T21:32:41 < zyp> now they are probably unobtanium everywhere
2020-10-05T21:32:44 < Cracki> bosch sold/sells a rugged phone with thermal camera too
2020-10-05T21:32:56 < zyp> isn't there a Cat branded one too?
2020-10-05T21:33:10 < zyp> yup
2020-10-05T21:33:11 < zyp> https://www.catphones.com/en-fi/features/integrated-thermal-imaging/
2020-10-05T21:33:12 < Cracki> could have been Cat instead of Bosch
2020-10-05T21:33:27 < Cracki> lol nope that's not rugged enough
2020-10-05T21:34:44 < Cracki> oh well, there are flir modules to stick onto ordinary camera phones
2020-10-05T21:35:06 < Cracki> some use watever data port, some just show a display in front of the phone cam instead
2020-10-05T21:35:19 < Cracki> (yes, exactly what it sounds like)
2020-10-05T21:35:24 < zyp> wat
2020-10-05T21:36:21 < Cracki> I don't remember what it was but it was stuck on the back of the phone on top of the RGB camera
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2020-10-05T21:42:23 < Laurenceb> https://www.change.org/p/microsoft-increase-the-maximum-number-of-columns-in-excel-to-32-768
2020-10-05T21:43:01 < Cracki> lol because some britbongs lost covid data because they were holding it in COLUMNS of an excel sheet
2020-10-05T21:43:08 < Cracki> yes not rows, columns
2020-10-05T21:43:52 < Cracki> >world-beating [...] system
2020-10-05T21:44:22 < Cracki> if those kinds of people managed to colonize the world, it must have been too easy for the rest of europe
2020-10-05T21:44:28 < Cracki> no offense intended
2020-10-05T21:45:12 < Cracki> at least employ someone who knows what the fuck they're doing with excel
2020-10-05T21:45:53  * Laurenceb is wondering about making a secrit shadow internets with spirit1 and 6lowpan
2020-10-05T21:46:15 < Laurenceb> range of 1km at 100kbps looks possible in urban environment
2020-10-05T21:47:28 < Cracki> bisection bandwidth?
2020-10-05T21:48:50 < Steffanx> You would have to reintroduce ascii porn as well, are you sure you want that Laurenceb?
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2020-10-05T21:53:02 < boddax> same of voyager camera quality
2020-10-05T21:55:12 < qyx> Laurenceb: I would not be surprised, they discontinued their wifi modules too
2020-10-05T21:55:28 < antto> 16k columns should be enough for anybody
2020-10-05T21:55:44 < Steffanx> Not for brits
2020-10-05T21:55:56 < antto> they aren't part of "anybody"
2020-10-05T21:55:58 < antto> ;P~
2020-10-05T21:56:46 < Steffanx> <notsomean.jpg>
2020-10-05T21:57:59 < antto> not mean, i just followed some plausible logic *shrug*
2020-10-05T21:58:03 < boddax> html?
2020-10-05T21:58:22 < antto> <iminnocent.xls>
2020-10-05T22:00:22 < Steffanx> no, it sometimes seems to be the only language antto speaks, boddax
2020-10-05T22:00:40 < antto> wut?
2020-10-05T22:02:59 < qyx> also
2020-10-05T22:03:14 < qyx> Laurenceb: I did 100k at 1km with rfm69
2020-10-05T22:03:23 < qyx> much bit errors
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2020-10-05T22:42:08 < Laurenceb> interesting
2020-10-05T22:44:38 < Laurenceb> qyx: using 2fsk?
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2020-10-05T22:52:12 < Laurenceb> I thought babbyshake was bad, but at least it wasnt time series database in xls
2020-10-05T22:52:35 < Laurenceb> I thought of a kickstarter
2020-10-05T22:52:43 < Laurenceb> babbyshake: the graphic novel
2020-10-05T22:53:01 < qyx> using gfsk bt=0.3 iirc
2020-10-05T22:53:11 < qyx> s/gfsk/gmsk
2020-10-05T22:53:54 < Laurenceb> ok
2020-10-05T22:54:13 -!- c10ud^ [~c10ud@emesene/dictator/c10ud] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds]
2020-10-05T22:54:26 < Laurenceb> 6lowpan etc is all kind of cool, but internet of things is still retarded
2020-10-05T22:55:10 < antto> eye-oh-tea
2020-10-05T22:55:19 < Laurenceb> https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/technology-54423988
2020-10-05T22:55:20 < Laurenceb> lolllll
2020-10-05T22:55:28 < Laurenceb> >The problem is that PHE's own developers picked an old file format to do this - known as XLS
2020-10-05T22:55:31 < Laurenceb> y-yeah
2020-10-05T22:55:41 < Laurenceb> stupid old file format, that was the problem
2020-10-05T22:55:47  * antto puts Laurenceb in The Cloud(TM)
2020-10-05T22:55:57 < Laurenceb> with latest excel it would have been a good idea
2020-10-05T22:56:06 < Laurenceb> and would work well...
2020-10-05T22:56:49  * antto puts a Reverb effect on Laurenceb, dials in "God's voice reverb" preset
2020-10-05T22:57:12 < antto> say sumfin loirens
2020-10-05T22:57:22 < Laurenceb> ur mum
2020-10-05T22:57:27 < antto> woah
2020-10-05T22:59:08 < Laurenceb> >To handle the problem, PHE is now breaking down the test result data into smaller batches to create a larger number of Excel templates
2020-10-05T22:59:57 < Steffanx> WTF where they even doing?
2020-10-05T23:00:02 < Steffanx> They better show the world
2020-10-05T23:06:19 < Cracki> why can't they just use ROWS like every same person
2020-10-05T23:06:37 < Cracki> rows are near infinite
2020-10-05T23:08:12 < Cracki> more infinite than columns anyway
2020-10-05T23:08:49 < Cracki> *sane
2020-10-05T23:10:18 < Laurenceb> or just write a perl script to mash together the submitted csv
2020-10-05T23:10:23 < Steffanx> perl.
2020-10-05T23:10:27 < Steffanx> WHO THE FUCK USES PERL?
2020-10-05T23:10:28 < Laurenceb> this is like an it assignment for 16 year olds
2020-10-05T23:10:31 < Laurenceb> lol ok
2020-10-05T23:10:37 < Laurenceb> read it into matlab lol
2020-10-05T23:10:44 < Laurenceb> anything would be better than excel
2020-10-05T23:10:47 < Steffanx> Not evne python?
2020-10-05T23:10:57 < Laurenceb> or that
2020-10-05T23:11:24 < Steffanx> Hows your girlfriend Laurenceb?
2020-10-05T23:11:45 < Laurenceb> you mean Russian grrl?
2020-10-05T23:11:51 < Laurenceb> I should e-stalk her
2020-10-05T23:11:59 < Steffanx> No, the real one.
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2020-10-05T23:12:47 < steverrrr> there are 2 types of people.  Those who have reached the limits of excel and decide they need to start augmenting their macros with visual basic, and everyone else
2020-10-05T23:14:21 < Laurenceb> sheeet wtf
2020-10-05T23:14:38 < Laurenceb> nottingham uni are flying a rainbow flag with black and brown
2020-10-05T23:14:50 < Laurenceb> necrophilia ?
2020-10-05T23:15:18 < Laurenceb> got to be something like that
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2020-10-05T23:16:40 < Laurenceb> hmm she has vanished
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2020-10-05T23:17:14 < Steffanx> Time to dig her bones up from the back yard?
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2020-10-05T23:19:15 < Laurenceb> last seen in France at a micromachining conference in December last year
2020-10-05T23:20:18 < Laurenceb> she told me she was heading to Novosibirsk Oblast to become a MMA fighter
2020-10-05T23:20:29 < Steffanx> You lost her forever Laurenceb.
2020-10-05T23:20:35 < Steffanx> You will never forget this
2020-10-05T23:20:36 < Laurenceb> ikr
2020-10-05T23:20:55 < Laurenceb> sheeet I need to work on this babbyshake graphic novel, it would be epic
2020-10-05T23:21:18 < Laurenceb> >uni embraces necrophile liberation
2020-10-05T23:21:29 < Laurenceb> >russian grrl become MMA fighter in Siberia
2020-10-05T23:21:33 < Laurenceb> this could be memetic
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2020-10-05T23:47:55 < karlp> what sort of category is "best huawei camera" ? https://bin.jvnv.net/file/suctC.png
2020-10-05T23:52:54 < mawk> 'lol
--- Day changed Tue Oct 06 2020
2020-10-06T00:03:46 < Cracki> python, import pandas, consume csv like a boss because it's illegal to shoot people what produce csv
2020-10-06T00:14:05 < Cracki> ok so nvidia does "compression" of live chat video by sending your face once, and then only facial landmarks instead of compressed frames
2020-10-06T00:18:45 < mawk> Steffanx: colleague just shared "two beer or not two beer — Shakesbeer"
2020-10-06T00:18:47 < mawk> see, all alcoholics
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2020-10-06T00:19:34 < Steffanx> Yes, froggy mawk.
2020-10-06T00:19:43 < mawk> :(
2020-10-06T00:21:49 < Steffanx> Lol
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2020-10-06T00:55:21 < qyx> jpa-: so you are saying the output of real fft is always complex
2020-10-06T00:55:25 -!- tcth [~tcth@77.109.191.152] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds]
2020-10-06T00:55:30 < qyx> my observation confirms
2020-10-06T01:01:58 < Cracki> complex, unless all the components have 0 phase
2020-10-06T01:02:24 < qyx> oh he explains everything here https://github.com/stg/SYLT-FFT/issues/1
2020-10-06T01:02:41 < Cracki> issues/2: move issues/1 to wiki
2020-10-06T01:03:04 < Laurenceb> hmm
2020-10-06T01:03:27 < Laurenceb> looks like using Hata model: stm32wb has <100m range with 802.15.4
2020-10-06T01:03:39 < Laurenceb> with 250kbps
2020-10-06T01:04:05 < Laurenceb> and stm32ml has ~1km range at 100kbps, 2fsk, 868mhz
2020-10-06T01:04:19 < Laurenceb> *stm32wl
2020-10-06T01:04:47 < Laurenceb> from station at 10m to mobile device at 2m altitude
2020-10-06T01:05:07 < Laurenceb> both are a bit shit :(
2020-10-06T01:05:21 < qyx> what are you innovating
2020-10-06T01:05:36 < Laurenceb> nothing, just looking at latest st products
2020-10-06T01:05:56 < Laurenceb> stm32wl with haxored 6lowpan would probably be the best
2020-10-06T01:06:04 < Laurenceb> 2.4GHz is the shitshow band in uk
2020-10-06T01:06:19 < Laurenceb> cant even connect to wifi on 2.4ghz any more, its so full of noise
2020-10-06T01:06:52 < Laurenceb> >people running 4k camera feeds then adding moar and moar chinese power amps to make it work
2020-10-06T01:07:56 < Laurenceb> I literally saw a camera with two 2.4GHz power amps duck taped to it the other day
2020-10-06T01:08:06 < Laurenceb> like a sort of rf nuking IED
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2020-10-06T01:09:50 < Laurenceb> internet of cannabis lamps
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2020-10-06T01:10:05 < Laurenceb> ^that was a literal uni project before babbyshake
2020-10-06T01:10:13 < antto> https://i.imgur.com/4Wt7qG6.png
2020-10-06T01:10:18 < Laurenceb> they used zigbee, but couldnt make a heatsink
2020-10-06T01:10:34 < antto> enhanced version ^
2020-10-06T01:10:46 < antto> moar realism
2020-10-06T01:11:02 < Laurenceb> aiui they spent ukp9k on heatsinks before giving up
2020-10-06T01:12:24 < Laurenceb> >passively cooled heatsink with the fins facing upwards
2020-10-06T01:13:31 < Laurenceb> lol
2020-10-06T01:13:33 < Laurenceb> https://www.bigstockphoto.com/image-173401733/stock-photo-diy-led-lamp-with-huge-heatsink-on-it-ugly-and-messy-fast-handmade-assembly-high-power-led-without-diffuser-used-dark-wooden-background-with-selective-focus
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2020-10-06T01:25:43 < Cracki> more rock blasting https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7FJEv2Qtb3w
2020-10-06T01:25:48 < Cracki> no earth burps this time
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2020-10-06T01:59:24 < aandrew> Laurenceb: that's ... an accurate description
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2020-10-06T02:30:16 < mawk> how did you end up doing your average of points stuff qyx ?
2020-10-06T02:36:59 < Cracki> maaaath is one hell of a drug https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=48sCx-wBs34
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2020-10-06T02:52:03 < mawk> yes Cracki of course
2020-10-06T02:52:53 < Cracki> he went from the 20k piece puzzle that only allows translation to the 2-piece puzzle that allows rotation too
2020-10-06T02:53:02 < Steffanx> Why you think mawk is on it?
2020-10-06T02:53:48 < mawk> I tried to work out the least square method for a degree n polynomial
2020-10-06T02:53:52 < mawk> instead of degree 1
2020-10-06T02:54:23 < mawk> it gives a very pretty matrix
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2020-10-06T02:54:59 < Steffanx> Sexy?
2020-10-06T02:55:12 < mawk> yes
2020-10-06T02:55:17 < mawk> sexy matrix
2020-10-06T02:56:41 < Steffanx> Awesome
2020-10-06T02:57:02 < Steffanx> Keep it in the pants uuh?
2020-10-06T02:57:47 < mawk> Sym([μ4, μ3, μ2, μ2, μ1, μ0])^(-1) Vec([μ21, μ11, μ01])
2020-10-06T02:58:00 < mawk> are the coefficients of the polynomial
2020-10-06T02:58:05 < Steffanx> Ty
2020-10-06T02:58:49 < mawk> with μk = 1/N \sum x_i^k
2020-10-06T02:59:01 < Steffanx> Time to sleep 😉
2020-10-06T02:59:18 < mawk> and μkl = 1/N \sum x_i^k y_i^l
2020-10-06T02:59:22 < mawk> no time for that
2020-10-06T02:59:34 < Cracki> you want to take a picture containing one kilometer of night skyline and the moon filling the background. how far away from the skyline does your camera have to be? moon, diameter ~3'500 km, distance _very_ approximately 350'000 km
2020-10-06T02:59:35 < Steffanx> Yes, my alarm goes in 5.5 hours
2020-10-06T03:01:21 < Cracki> answer: 350'000 km : 3'500 km = x : 1 km, x = 100 km away
2020-10-06T03:01:44 < mawk> to get the expression for least squares it's quite funny
2020-10-06T03:02:00 < mawk> I did it using a mix of probabilities and vector calculus
2020-10-06T03:02:18 < Cracki> that's technobabble
2020-10-06T03:02:25 < mawk> nnn
2020-10-06T03:02:29 < Steffanx> Thanks. I wont be able to repeat that anyway mawk
2020-10-06T03:02:32 < Cracki> covariant tetrion beam
2020-10-06T03:03:03 < Steffanx> No comprendo
2020-10-06T03:03:08 < mawk> take the expected value E[(Y - (aX²+bX+c))²] of the square of the error between the data points and the fitting quadratic
2020-10-06T03:03:21 < mawk> that the square part of the least square
2020-10-06T03:03:29 < mawk> call it R²
2020-10-06T03:03:32 < Steffanx> No its not
2020-10-06T03:03:45 < mawk> then, compute dR² = 0, its differential
2020-10-06T03:04:23 < Steffanx> I want proper proof. Not random statements of "facts"
2020-10-06T03:04:45 < mawk> it's proper proof
2020-10-06T03:04:53 < mawk> you're conspiracy theorist
2020-10-06T03:05:13 < Steffanx> [02:03:22] <99ccmawkthat the square part of the least square
2020-10-06T03:05:18 < mawk> yes
2020-10-06T03:05:23 < mawk> it's a square
2020-10-06T03:05:35 < mawk> it's the average value of the square of the distance between data and fitting curve
2020-10-06T03:05:39 < Cracki> so why look for an extremum in the square of the error
2020-10-06T03:05:48 < Cracki> oh wait, it's a square
2020-10-06T03:05:54 < Cracki> the only extremum will be the minimum
2020-10-06T03:05:56 < Cracki> sneaky
2020-10-06T03:06:01 < mawk> yes
2020-10-06T03:06:10 < Steffanx> Lol have fun mawk
2020-10-06T03:06:33 < mawk> then with dR² = 0 you get values for a, b, c
2020-10-06T03:06:47 < mawk> that cancel the differential
2020-10-06T03:07:02 < mawk> and you can generalize to any degree fitting curve also
2020-10-06T03:07:17 < Cracki> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wilkinson%27s_polynomial
2020-10-06T03:07:48 < mawk> the other method to derive it is fully with linear algebra, you project the function to fit onto the R_n[X] space of degree n polynomials
2020-10-06T03:08:09 < mawk> and by the very nature of projection, you get the best approximation
2020-10-06T03:08:13 < Cracki> how is E[] defined here?
2020-10-06T03:08:30 < Cracki> those variables/constants aren't just all scalars
2020-10-06T03:08:32 < mawk> E[X] is 1/N \sum x_i
2020-10-06T03:08:36 < Cracki> ok
2020-10-06T03:08:42 < mawk> E[Y] is 1/N \sum y_i
2020-10-06T03:08:57 < mawk> your data points are {(x_i; y_i)}
2020-10-06T03:10:14 < mawk> this gives a nice formula you can put in any computer to fit a degree n polynomial to data points
2020-10-06T03:10:38 < mawk> but if you can control the x_i, i.e. sample the function when you want, there are better methods than this
2020-10-06T03:11:06 < Cracki> nice formula, R² is gonna be a sum of squares, then differential/derivative(?) of that is bound to be bulk
2020-10-06T03:11:07 < Cracki> y
2020-10-06T03:11:36 < mawk> yeah, but I already derived the formula and everything
2020-10-06T03:11:43 < mawk> the end result is a nice matrix equation
2020-10-06T03:11:46 < mawk> with a symmetric matrix
2020-10-06T03:11:59 < mawk> whose terms are all of the form E[X^k Y^l]
2020-10-06T03:12:15 < mawk> actually just E[X^k] even
2020-10-06T03:13:37 < mawk> the inverse matrix probably has a nice expression too but too lazy to find it
2020-10-06T03:13:40 < mawk> no apparent pattern
2020-10-06T03:13:55 < mawk> derivative of a square is not so horrible anyway
2020-10-06T03:15:11 < mawk> what's high degree is X, but the variable we're interested in are the polynomial coefficients, and that's all degree 1 after differentiation
2020-10-06T03:16:38 < Cracki> ok so it's this, derivative wrt. {a,b,c} would be simple enough https://www.wolframalpha.com/input/?i=expand+%28a+x%5E2+%2B+b+x+%2B+c+-+y%29%5E2
2020-10-06T03:16:46 < mawk> http://imgur.com/a/nOBrKxx
2020-10-06T03:16:58 < mawk> the matrix eqn is where it says symétrique with the arrow
2020-10-06T03:17:12 < mawk> and signification of μ_ij is just above
2020-10-06T03:17:38 < Cracki> witchcraft
2020-10-06T03:17:45 < mawk> lol
2020-10-06T03:17:56 < mawk> it just simplifies nicely
2020-10-06T03:18:57 < Cracki> I see you do that to ax²+bx+c separately
2020-10-06T03:20:14 < mawk> well you don't need to expand
2020-10-06T03:20:18 < mawk> otherwise it becomes horrible
2020-10-06T03:20:24 < mawk> remember the variable are a, b, c
2020-10-06T03:20:36 < Cracki> why not expand
2020-10-06T03:20:54 < Cracki> there's probably some simple identity/formula but I wouldn't know
2020-10-06T03:20:54 < mawk> because then you can use the formula for derivative of a square
2020-10-06T03:21:12 < Cracki> chain rule or something?
2020-10-06T03:21:16 < Cracki> no clue
2020-10-06T03:21:22 < mawk> so d/da ( (aX²+bX+c - Y)² ) = 2X² (aX²+bX+c - Y)
2020-10-06T03:21:29 < mawk> I guess, not sure of the English term
2020-10-06T03:21:40 < Cracki> that's a mouthful, parsing...
2020-10-06T03:21:42 < mawk> it's d/dt f(t)² = 2f'(t)f(t)
2020-10-06T03:21:45 < mawk> the rule
2020-10-06T03:21:53 < Cracki> chain rule, yes
2020-10-06T03:22:05 < Cracki> derivative of f(g(t))
2020-10-06T03:22:09 < mawk> or in general d/dt f(t)^n = nf'(t)f(t)^(n-1)
2020-10-06T03:22:11 < mawk> yeah
2020-10-06T03:22:16 < Cracki> f() = square, g() = inner thing
2020-10-06T03:22:24 < mawk> yes
2020-10-06T03:23:34 < mawk> so coefficient of a in dR²/da is 2X⁴, coefficient of b is 2X³, coefficient of c is 2X², constant term is 2X²Y
2020-10-06T03:23:44 < mawk> and so on for dR²/db and dR²/dc
2020-10-06T03:23:49 < mawk> there's this nice pattern
2020-10-06T03:23:56 < mawk> which is what I put in the matrix
2020-10-06T03:23:58 < Cracki> so g = aX²+bX+c - Y, then d/da g^2 = 2 g g'
2020-10-06T03:24:08 < mawk> yeah
2020-10-06T03:24:13 < Cracki> and that is...
2020-10-06T03:24:16 < mawk> g' relative to a
2020-10-06T03:24:22 < mawk> g' = X²
2020-10-06T03:24:28 < Cracki> 2 (X²) (aX²+bX+c - Y)
2020-10-06T03:24:37 < mawk> yeah
2020-10-06T03:24:41 < Cracki> and that's what you wrote, ok
2020-10-06T03:25:01 < Cracki> you say = and that's one step to you but several to the audience
2020-10-06T03:25:28 < mawk> I guess because it's still fresh in my mind
2020-10-06T03:25:44 < mawk> then yeah you see it simplifies greatly, it's a nice little trick
2020-10-06T03:25:58 < Cracki> I see LHS and RHS and try to pattern match. looking at RHS and thinking of what to do would lead to RHS, but not thinking of that leads nowhere
2020-10-06T03:26:24 < mawk> in my opinion the geometric way is way more intuitive, like if I had to find the best fitting polynomial for the euclidean distance I'd just project the function unto the space of polynomials
2020-10-06T03:26:28 < mawk> but computations get quite ugly
2020-10-06T03:26:42 < mawk> because (1, X, X², …) is a shitty basis for polynomials
2020-10-06T03:26:58 < mawk> you need to orthonormalize it, and there's no real useful pattern
2020-10-06T03:27:07 < Cracki> hm well simplifying... 2X² (aX²+bX+c - Y), I could distribute (?) that stuff, 2ax^4 + 2bx^3 + 2cx^2 - 2yx^2, okeh
2020-10-06T03:27:16 < mawk> alternatively you can start with another basis of orthogonal polynomials, there are a ton to choose from
2020-10-06T03:27:21 < Cracki> I guess your matrix stuff likes it to stay factorized
2020-10-06T03:27:31 < mawk> well distribute it yes
2020-10-06T03:27:34 < mawk> that's what I did
2020-10-06T03:27:39 < mawk> just removed the 2 since it's everywhere
2020-10-06T03:27:46 < Cracki> ah so that's where the ^4 in your notes comes from ok
2020-10-06T03:28:34 < mawk> you get equations {X⁴a + X³b + X²c = X²Y; X³a + X²b + Xc = XY; X²a + Xb + c = Y}
2020-10-06T03:28:43 < mawk> when you develop everything
2020-10-06T03:28:48 < mawk> and that's exactly the matrix eqn
2020-10-06T03:28:49 < Cracki> so 2ax^4 + 2bx^3 + 2cx^2 - 2yx^2... {2a, 2b, 2c-2y} {x^4, x^3, x^2}
2020-10-06T03:29:09 < mawk> the variables are a, b, c remember
2020-10-06T03:29:17 < Cracki> eh
2020-10-06T03:29:22 < mawk> X is really a random variable
2020-10-06T03:29:32 < mawk> we still have the E[ ] wrapping everything
2020-10-06T03:30:00 < mawk> it was allowed to manipulate X like a plain variable because E commutes with derivative
2020-10-06T03:30:13 < Cracki> so 2ax^4 + 2bx^3 + 2cx^2 - 2yx^2 = 2 {a,b,c,y} {x^4, x^3, x^2, -x^2}
2020-10-06T03:30:29 < Cracki> I guess y has no business being there, it's 1 really
2020-10-06T03:30:36 < mawk> but the equation really reads like aE[X⁴] + bE[X³] + … and so on, all the E stuff are constants given your input data
2020-10-06T03:30:55 < Cracki> I'm just dicking around. this is not gonna stick in my mind for more than 5 minutes I know that
2020-10-06T03:30:59 < mawk> lol
2020-10-06T03:31:04 < mawk> well I won't remember it either
2020-10-06T03:31:08 < mawk> but I will remember the method
2020-10-06T03:31:15 < Cracki> this stuff isn't obvious: {X⁴a + X³b + X²c = X²Y; X³a + X²b + Xc = XY; X²a + Xb + c = Y}
2020-10-06T03:31:28 < mawk> it's what you get when you expand
2020-10-06T03:31:41 < mawk> we had 2X²(aX²+bX+c-Y) = 0
2020-10-06T03:31:42 < Cracki> i see how the the first one comes to be
2020-10-06T03:31:51 < mawk> for the first d/da derivative
2020-10-06T03:31:54 < Cracki> ah, second and third are d/db d/dc
2020-10-06T03:31:59 < mawk> yes
2020-10-06T03:32:20 < mawk> but I should wrap all the X and Y stuff with E[ ] in this system to be rigorous
2020-10-06T03:33:00 < Cracki> oh heh E[X^something] reduces this quite a lot
2020-10-06T03:33:09 < mawk> then we know all the E[X^k] stuff, we can compute it easily
2020-10-06T03:33:25 < mawk> even precompute it if we approximate the function on a given interval
2020-10-06T03:34:30 < mawk> if we do the same but just for a degree 1 polynomial, we get the classical least square line expression
2020-10-06T03:34:39 < mawk> and as a bonus we get it in statistical terms
2020-10-06T03:34:47 < mawk> using variance and covariance and shit like this
2020-10-06T03:34:49 < Cracki> what do you mean approximate, I think X is a vector, X^k is elementwise power, E[] is average of that, and all of that is independent of a,b,c
2020-10-06T03:34:58 < mawk> it's probably very meaningful
2020-10-06T03:35:36 < mawk> it's not really a vector, we manipulate like a formal variable
2020-10-06T03:35:53 < mawk> but I guess yes its data representation is a vector
2020-10-06T03:36:02 < mawk> but as a mathematical object, it's a random variablz
2020-10-06T03:36:06 < Cracki> sure
2020-10-06T03:36:32 < mawk> E[f(X)] is the average of f(X) yeah
2020-10-06T03:36:33 < Cracki> I know it's sullying the math but eventually you'd wanna stick numbers in this apparatus
2020-10-06T03:36:36 < mawk> or rather the expected value
2020-10-06T03:36:44 < mawk> since it's probability land
2020-10-06T03:37:24 < mawk> and X alone represents the random variable, so it can be thought as a random x_i I guess
2020-10-06T03:37:54 < Cracki> for X⁴a + X³b + X²c = X²Y, would this be correct? aE[X⁴] + bE[X³] + cE[X² = E[X²Y]
2020-10-06T03:38:06 < mawk> yeah
2020-10-06T03:38:11 < Cracki> I'm wondering about how to handle the X^2Y, ok
2020-10-06T03:38:51 < mawk> E is linear, so you can swap E[ ] and derivative as you please, which allowed us to do this computation
2020-10-06T03:39:09 < Cracki> ok so 3 equations, each is the derivative wrt one of a,b,c
2020-10-06T03:39:18 < mawk> there is a formula E[XY] = E[X]E[Y] but only if variables X and Y are independant so not the case here
2020-10-06T03:39:22 < mawk> yeah
2020-10-06T03:39:34 < mawk> then we solve the system for a, b, c
2020-10-06T03:39:49 < Cracki> ah right, system, I was somehow thinking of them individually
2020-10-06T03:39:59 < mawk> and we get our quadratic at²+bt+c which minimizes the square of the distance to the data
2020-10-06T03:41:03 < mawk> if the data already perfectly lies on a quadratic, then you get back the same quadratic as you started with
2020-10-06T03:41:06 < mawk> which is pretty nice
2020-10-06T03:42:10 < mawk> you have another method, interpolation, where you compute the polynomial of whatever sufficient degree that will pass exactly through all data points; but usually it ends in tears because if you don't choose the x_i wisely, the interpolator oscillates wildly between points
2020-10-06T03:42:17 < mawk> it's called Runge phenomenon 
2020-10-06T03:42:39 < mawk> and the way to avoid this is to interpolate with more points closer to the edges of the interval
2020-10-06T03:43:10 < mawk> the exact points to choose are the points you get when you choose equally spaced points of a half-circle, then you squash it on top of the [-1; 1] segment
2020-10-06T03:43:18 < mawk> you see that will give more points on the ends
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2020-10-06T03:43:38 < mawk> they are called Chebyshev points I think
2020-10-06T03:44:34 < upgrdman> anyone here done any "serious" data processing on a PC where you reached memory bandwidth limits?
2020-10-06T03:45:24 < Cracki> isn't that nearly always the case, such that cpu has to wait and can't apply its whole crunch to the situation?
2020-10-06T03:45:57 < upgrdman> my CPU is rated for 34.1GBps theoretical memory bandwidth, and i'm having difficulty processing about 1.5GBps. of course, i'm doing some read-modify-write, etc, so I'm doing >1.5GBps of memory accesses. just not sure what is realistic to expected.
2020-10-06T03:46:20 < Cracki> define difficulty. 34.1 GB/s is to ram, yes?
2020-10-06T03:46:25 < upgrdman> ya
2020-10-06T03:46:32 < Cracki> data is already in ram, yes?
2020-10-06T03:46:42 < upgrdman> most CPU-bound software seems to be due to shit code, not memory bandwidth
2020-10-06T03:46:46 < Cracki> what are you doing to it and how
2020-10-06T03:46:48 < upgrdman> and poor parallelism
2020-10-06T03:47:17 < Cracki> hm well (34.1 GB/s) / (cpu frequency) leaves you a few bytes per cycle to handle
2020-10-06T03:47:23 < Cracki> so you'd wanna use vector instructions
2020-10-06T03:47:31 < Cracki> if you want to use a single thread/core
2020-10-06T03:47:58 < Cracki> multithreading only wastes crunch because the cores are busy doing non-simd
2020-10-06T03:48:03 < upgrdman> Cracki, receiving data via UDP -> store in buffer in RAM -> convert from int16 to float32 -> draw as a time series with GPU -> remove old data (will flush to disk, but not doing that currently to eliminate that bottelneck)
2020-10-06T03:48:21 < Cracki> a compiler should be able to vectorize simple loops, maybe with some ass kicking (pragmas)
2020-10-06T03:48:34 < upgrdman> i have no problems with number crunching. my ALUs are barely working. it seems to be memory bandwidth limited
2020-10-06T03:48:50 < Cracki> I'd move the int16 to gpu and let it handle the conversion on the fly. it's good at that.
2020-10-06T03:49:06 < upgrdman> i guess i better spend more time with Intel vTune to find the true bottlenecks
2020-10-06T03:49:17 < Cracki> or do it cpu-side, that blows up the bandwith required to GPU
2020-10-06T03:49:31 < Cracki> figure out if anything is being vectorized
2020-10-06T03:49:36 < Cracki> meaning SIMD instructions
2020-10-06T03:49:47 < upgrdman> Cracki, ya but for some things the cpu needs the floats too... and im no where even close to processing power limits on the CPU.
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2020-10-06T03:50:19 < Cracki> let's say 3 ghz, you'd have 11.3 bytes/cycle, or 90 bits. 128 bit SIMD (that's not even AVX) would probably handle that
2020-10-06T03:51:01 < upgrdman> Cracki, ya but multiple cores. even without SIMD, 4core/8thread means you can even be dumb as fuck and still not reach the limits of your ALUs
2020-10-06T03:51:03 < Cracki> not sure if the 34.1 GB/s are both ways summed, or available each way simultaenously
2020-10-06T03:51:14 < Cracki> correct
2020-10-06T03:52:03 < Cracki> >>> 34.1e9 / (2+4) / 3e9 # 1.8944444444444444
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2020-10-06T03:52:20 < Cracki> 2 bytes read, 4 bytes write, assuming 3 ghz, would mean you'd need 2 threads
2020-10-06T03:52:31 < Cracki> orders of magnitude :>
2020-10-06T03:54:01 < Cracki> I am not sure how to tell java to use SIMD instructions :>
2020-10-06T03:54:25 < Cracki> UseSuperWord shows up here: https://prestodb.rocks/code/simd
2020-10-06T03:55:10 < Cracki> there even seems to be a "vector api"
2020-10-06T03:55:16 < Cracki> https://dzone.com/articles/vectorised-algorithms-in-java ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
2020-10-06T03:57:35 < upgrdman> Cracki, i know that i am not limited by ALUs, so i don't even need to worry about SIMD yet. even if i skip the int16->float32 conversion, and just write a dummy constant into memory for each value, i barely speed up at all.
2020-10-06T03:57:48 < Cracki> huh
2020-10-06T03:57:52 < Cracki> any locking?
2020-10-06T03:58:12 < upgrdman> a little, but i've profiles the hot spots and they don't lock very much
2020-10-06T03:58:20 < Cracki> what access pattern? a cache line should be accessed from one thread only
2020-10-06T03:58:38 < upgrdman> i guess i just need to up my vTune game... need to figure out how to better drill down through it's profiling info
2020-10-06T03:59:17 < upgrdman> yes, each thread operates on separate chunks of (12*n)KB
2020-10-06T03:59:25 < Cracki> i.e. for an array, don't assign threads 1 2 3 4 1 2 3 4..., but 1 1 1 1 2 2 2 2 3 3 3 3 4 4 4 4
2020-10-06T03:59:37 < upgrdman> doubt i'm running into false sharing / cache thrashing
2020-10-06T03:59:41 < Cracki> good good
2020-10-06T04:00:08 < Cracki> sanity check: dumb loop, sum up the values. that should be constrained by read speed only
2020-10-06T04:00:42 < Cracki> or, maybe, summing, but that should at least show you core frequency * element width of data rate
2020-10-06T04:01:30 < Cracki> so ~6 GB/s for shorts and a usual core frequency
2020-10-06T04:01:35 < upgrdman> FUCK
2020-10-06T04:01:44 < upgrdman> why is intel's vtune download page broken!!!
2020-10-06T04:01:45 < upgrdman> https://software.seek.intel.com/intel-vtune-profiler
2020-10-06T04:01:48 < Cracki> heheh
2020-10-06T04:02:03 < Cracki> I see an inquisitive form
2020-10-06T04:02:36 < upgrdman> Cracki, do you see fields to enter info? i dont
2020-10-06T04:02:41 < upgrdman> looks like broken css/js to me
2020-10-06T04:02:54 < Cracki> https://imgur.com/d38AcJH
2020-10-06T04:03:07 < Cracki> it _is_ trying to connect to some other site but that just keeps spinning
2020-10-06T04:03:33 < Cracki> maybe adblocker does it
2020-10-06T04:03:38 < Cracki> mine is disabled for intel.com
2020-10-06T04:03:50 < Cracki> I saw some linkedin spying and whatever else
2020-10-06T04:04:02 < Cracki> lol with ublock enabled it's styleless
2020-10-06T04:04:10 < upgrdman> https://imgur.com/a/Ht7Emzz   fuck me
2020-10-06T04:04:21 < Cracki> I'm guessing tiqcdn.com is required
2020-10-06T04:04:22 < upgrdman> ya that's why. i ublock, lol
2020-10-06T04:05:10 < Cracki> it's doing something. I can enable some sites manually but that doesn't fix it
2020-10-06T04:06:45 < Cracki> uh, ublock doesn't let me manually "green"/allow things since a few weeks/months. wonder how to restore that or if this has any sense to it
2020-10-06T04:08:32 < Cracki> fuckers https://www.reddit.com/r/uBlockOrigin/comments/hpiq5z/where_did_the_green_option_went/
2020-10-06T04:10:22 < Cracki> >You can get back temporarily the ability to create allow rules from within the popup panel by tapping twice the Ctrl key.
2020-10-06T04:10:38 < Cracki> but explaining HOW TO FUCKING DO WHAT USED TO WORK? nah, they don't care
2020-10-06T04:10:42 < Cracki> they only say "BAD!"
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2020-10-06T04:28:12 < Cracki> great, at least they document this breakage. https://github.com/gorhill/uBlock/wiki/Dynamic-filtering:-quick-guide
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2020-10-06T04:55:31 < upgrdman> Cracki, heh, looks like i'm averaging 20GBps of memory bandwidth. fuck... now i need to be really careful and juggle knives with how to be more memory efficient in a thread-safe manner.
2020-10-06T04:55:32 < upgrdman> https://imgur.com/a/keiBVUh
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2020-10-06T04:56:28 < Cracki> eh, don't worry. as long as you're writing to separate ranges in arrays it's all gonna be good ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
2020-10-06T04:57:08 < upgrdman> ya but i need to be careful with ordering, to ensure the array exists before any thread that will write into it tries to write into it
2020-10-06T05:03:23 < Cracki> uh, yes, that would be a good idea :D
2020-10-06T05:07:52 < upgrdman> shit. and i need to stop using int32 sample numbers... overflowing in <1 minute, lol
2020-10-06T05:11:11 < Cracki> over 70 mhz sampling I guess
2020-10-06T05:11:32 < Cracki> or less that if you mean signed
2020-10-06T05:14:32 < upgrdman> its signed, java wont do unsigned. but yes, ~120MSps right now
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2020-10-06T05:45:20 < upgrdman> well, fuck me. changed my code to juggle knives... it seems to work perfectly. but now i am definitely limited by DRAM bandwidth :( :) ... vTune confirms that L1D Full metric is now "100.0%"
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2020-10-06T05:57:11 < Cracki> L1 cache full in space or full in bandwidth? L1 cache should have orders of magnitude more bandwidth than ram
2020-10-06T05:57:29 < Cracki> just linear read should make it say 100% usage
2020-10-06T05:57:49 < Cracki> also that was almost a forkbomb, just missing a few {} and ;
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2020-10-06T06:08:03 < upgrdman> Cracki, "This metric does a rough estimation of how often L1D Fill Buffer unavailability limited additional L1D miss memory access requests to proceed. The higher the metric value, the deeper the memory hierarchy level the misses are satisfied from. Often it hints on approaching bandwidth limits (to L2 cache, L3 cache or external memory)."
2020-10-06T06:08:25 < Cracki> *headscratch*
2020-10-06T06:08:33 < Cracki> yes bw limits
2020-10-06T06:09:22 < Cracki> if you have data that fits in L1D, that would actually surprise me
2020-10-06T06:09:49 < Cracki> L1I probably looks better because your code won't be huge
2020-10-06T06:09:56 < Cracki> or its working set anyway
2020-10-06T06:10:26 < upgrdman> there is one more spot i can think of where i can juggle more knives to try and eek out a little more performance (by reducing memory usage) ... but i feel like i'm getting diminishing returns. getting to 1.5Gbps was easy. getting to 2.5Gbps was just a little more work. getting to 3.5Gbps was a lot of small tweaks. and now i'm not sure if this box can get me to 4.5Gbps
2020-10-06T06:11:40 < upgrdman> amusingly my fucking laptop with a 20W cpu is a little faster (until it thermal throttles) because it's got a later gen cpu with more memory bandwidth
2020-10-06T06:12:55 < Cracki> you aren't even hitting main memory bandwidth limits
2020-10-06T06:13:22 < Cracki> data cache being useless because you're reading more than fits in cache is to be expected and not an issue at all
2020-10-06T06:13:41 < upgrdman> Cracki, the theoretical limit is for the cpu. im not sure if my DIMM sticks are the best that the cpu supports. maybe not.
2020-10-06T06:14:17 < upgrdman> im going ~20GBps according to vTune
2020-10-06T06:14:20 < Cracki> what year is the RAM from?
2020-10-06T06:14:43 < Cracki> 20 gigabyte/s sounds great. that must be a sizable fraction of theoretical max
2020-10-06T06:14:55 < Cracki> I'd expect 20-50 or more GB/s from recent RAM
2020-10-06T06:15:44 < Cracki> ddr4-3200 is also called pc4-25600 which is 25.6 GB/s
2020-10-06T06:16:10 < upgrdman> hmm. 2016
2020-10-06T06:16:15 < upgrdman> i bought this     https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B01CYILUB8/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_asin_title_o02_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1
2020-10-06T06:16:35 < Cracki> and that's for a single stick. they can be used simultaneously
2020-10-06T06:16:48 < Cracki> ok so 19/38 GB/s
2020-10-06T06:16:50 < upgrdman> "DDR4 2400 (PC4-19200)"
2020-10-06T06:17:04 < Cracki> 38 assuming it's using both at the same time
2020-10-06T06:17:38 < upgrdman> Cracki, but intel says the cpu can only do 34.1GBps max  https://ark.intel.com/content/www/us/en/ark/products/88195/intel-core-i7-6700k-processor-8m-cache-up-to-4-20-ghz.html
2020-10-06T06:17:52 < Cracki> ¯\_(ツ)_/¯ then that's the limit I guess
2020-10-06T06:17:57 < upgrdman> ya
2020-10-06T06:18:23 < Cracki> maybe I misunderstand and it's not using two sticks like a raid 0, then you would have a limit of 19.2 GB/s
2020-10-06T06:18:31 < upgrdman> and there's some wasted time due to amdahl's law... so i guess i should be happy with 20GBps
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2020-10-06T06:19:01 < Cracki> sanity check, do you expect 20 GB/s data from the number of samples you are moving?
2020-10-06T06:19:15 < Cracki> (samples per unit time)
2020-10-06T06:20:04 < Cracki> 19.2 GB/s / (2+4) bytes = 3.2e9 samples/sec
2020-10-06T06:20:26 < Cracki> I guess you have more than one sample per "frame"
2020-10-06T06:20:53 < Cracki> 19.2e9 / 120e6 = 160 bytes per sample
2020-10-06T06:21:29 < upgrdman> right now the raw data is ~640MBps but there is some math done, and copying done, so i'm not surprised if i need >10GBps
2020-10-06T06:21:49 < upgrdman> e.g. to copy 1GB required 2GB of transfers (1 to read, 1 to write)
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2020-10-06T06:25:33 < upgrdman> 0.64GBps -> copy into buffer = 1.3GBps -> read and convert into floats = 2.6GBps -> read by OpenGL = 3.9Gbps ... and probably some other shit i'm forgetting to ~double those figures
2020-10-06T06:39:59 < Cracki> hm, only way to improve that would be to do it in one go, so it at most hits the cache
2020-10-06T06:40:51 < Cracki> avoiding the simple copy could be easy but seems to be the least of it
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2020-10-06T07:09:41 < Cracki> lol 6am, ~12C outside, just opened the window for a minute and a wasp shows up
2020-10-06T07:11:07 < aandrew> LEMME IN IT'S BLOODY COLD OUT HERE
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2020-10-06T08:21:10 < antto> BZZZZ I CAN HAZ WARM PLS
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2020-10-06T10:01:29 < qyx> mawk: I did not, I trashed cmsis-fft because it is not in-place
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2020-10-06T10:02:26 < qyx> it would require 64K of sram (8192 * dual float for input, the same for output)
2020-10-06T10:03:00 < qyx> the other fft is in-place
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2020-10-06T10:43:26 < mawk> I see
2020-10-06T11:17:05 < Steffanx> Im super happy for you, mawk
2020-10-06T11:17:23 < mawk> what
2020-10-06T11:18:02 < Steffanx> You can see!
2020-10-06T11:22:29 < Steffanx> Hah
2020-10-06T11:33:06 < mawk> :(
2020-10-06T11:35:29 < mawk> because of me one colleague is leaving the company
2020-10-06T11:35:35 < mawk> I talked too much maths and stuff with him
2020-10-06T11:35:45 < mawk> and now he misses doing things relevant to his phd in computer vision
2020-10-06T11:35:50 < mawk> so he's leaving for france
2020-10-06T11:55:49 < Steffanx> Lol
2020-10-06T12:09:57 < qyx> so back to fft, the library segfaults for lengths > 256 on x86
2020-10-06T12:13:04 < mawk> lol
2020-10-06T12:13:14 < mawk> maybe change some uint8_t somewhere to uint16_t
2020-10-06T12:13:30 < qyx> no, it works okish on cm4
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2020-10-06T13:02:40 < catphish> yep, uint16_t is enough for anything :)
2020-10-06T13:08:21 < Steffanx> The brits know all about it
2020-10-06T13:23:42 < PaulFertser> Did you know "char*" is special in C++? It is not part of strict aliasing rules, so you're missing some optimisation opportunities when using it.
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2020-10-06T14:14:12 < karlp> c++ causing surprises for c people? whoda thunkit
2020-10-06T14:34:45 < dongs> qyx watcha doin with fft
2020-10-06T14:34:59 < dongs> im looking for something simple that can fft directly from ADC values without converting to float/shit
2020-10-06T14:35:02 < dongs> cuz this is a crappy m0
2020-10-06T14:37:07 < Mangy_Dog> So going back to my question yesterday, bringing PWM to a PWMless pin...  Soft PWM, what method has the least overhead both in cpu time and ram, how much will it interrupt the other tasks and will it take more power? Using a Timer with direct gpio manipulation setting a timer to interrupt and then delay to turn off the pin based on duty setting... Or the DMA method that I still dont actually 
2020-10-06T14:37:07 < Mangy_Dog> understand yet...
2020-10-06T14:37:31 < dongs> do the ghetto arduino pwm
2020-10-06T14:37:45 < dongs> lemme find sec
2020-10-06T14:37:58 < emeryth> cmsis dsp lib has fixed point fft stuff
2020-10-06T14:38:05 < dongs> still neesd conversion
2020-10-06T14:38:18 < Mangy_Dog> well using a timer is easy enough
2020-10-06T14:38:26 < Mangy_Dog> just its an interupt
2020-10-06T14:38:32 < Mangy_Dog> it will interupt other things
2020-10-06T14:38:46 < Mangy_Dog> and its not an interupt that happenes some times... its going to happen ALL the time
2020-10-06T14:38:51 < Mangy_Dog> at the rate of the PWM
2020-10-06T14:39:15 < Mangy_Dog> but i think the DMA way isnt interrupt 
2020-10-06T14:39:18 < Mangy_Dog> its independant 
2020-10-06T14:39:23 < Mangy_Dog> but i dont know how to do it
2020-10-06T14:39:24 < Mangy_Dog> :/
2020-10-06T14:41:11 < dongs> http://www.batsocks.co.uk/downloads/art_bcm_01.pdf this
2020-10-06T14:42:17 < dongs> I used this with led matrixes/button backlight type shit successfully
2020-10-06T14:42:49 < dongs> the best part is you just setup BSRR etc on stm and you can run as many channels as y ou want in parallel with minimal overhead
2020-10-06T14:42:49 < Mangy_Dog> hmmmm
2020-10-06T14:43:21 < emeryth> dongs: no, I'm pretty sure you can feed it straight up ints
2020-10-06T14:43:38 < Mangy_Dog> hmm thats using the timer to create pwm
2020-10-06T14:43:51 < dongs> you gotta have something for timebase, sure
2020-10-06T14:44:04 < Mangy_Dog> this is what i was asking about the dma version
2020-10-06T14:44:09 < Mangy_Dog> as that doesnt use timers
2020-10-06T14:44:11 < dongs> you don't haev to use a timer if you dont have one, you could piggyback off systick or some adc/wahtever completion interruipt etc.
2020-10-06T14:44:13 < Mangy_Dog> its indipendant
2020-10-06T14:44:25 < Mangy_Dog> thats what i mean
2020-10-06T14:44:34 < Mangy_Dog> i would liek to avoid using interrupts
2020-10-06T14:45:10 < dongs> what is the "DMA version"? you mean setting up a DMA and doing something in DMA_TC interrupt? that's kind a timer since its gonna be more or less constantly fired
2020-10-06T14:45:31 < dongs> i guess you can combine it with bcm to prepare the BSRR register with PWM data
2020-10-06T14:46:29 < karlp> you can use a timer to drive dma, just because you don't have a timer with a pwm pin for that pin because of your hardware error
2020-10-06T14:46:44 < karlp> jus circular mode dma forever on a timer.
2020-10-06T14:46:57 < dongs> you can just use any timer and it's IRQ (if it has one) it doesnt ned any hardware pins at all
2020-10-06T14:47:10 < karlp> yeah, but "OMG; IRQS INTERRRUPT MY JERBS"
2020-10-06T14:47:30 < dongs> oh so he wants to prepare PWM data in a DMA buffer and just clock it out constantly?
2020-10-06T14:47:35 < dongs> i guess that works
2020-10-06T14:47:48 < dongs> prepare to waste a bunch of ram
2020-10-06T14:47:58 < Mangy_Dog> well right now the alternative is i hack a wire from a spare gpio i have that does have pwm
2020-10-06T14:48:00 < karlp> depends how many stetps you want though.
2020-10-06T14:48:08 < karlp> how many boards are you making again?
2020-10-06T14:48:14 < Mangy_Dog> its stupid tbh. I thought i double checked that the pins i was using all had pwm
2020-10-06T14:48:21 < dongs> inb4 1
2020-10-06T14:48:31 < karlp> greenwire to glory then boyo
2020-10-06T14:48:41 < karlp> keep it simple
2020-10-06T14:49:12 < karlp> I keep getting ads for "Embedded World Feb. 25 to 27, 2020"
2020-10-06T14:49:16 < karlp> shit's over dudes
2020-10-06T14:52:40 < Mangy_Dog> actually running a wire might not be possible... certainly not easy D: not a lot of board space
2020-10-06T14:54:08 < dongs> why do you need pwm on that pin
2020-10-06T14:54:17 < dongs> what mcu and waht pin is it
2020-10-06T14:56:07 < Mangy_Dog> f103
2020-10-06T14:56:33 < Mangy_Dog> PA12
2020-10-06T14:56:48 < Mangy_Dog> because i put the led i want to control on PA12 in my pcb :/ mistakingly thinking it had pwm
2020-10-06T14:59:11 < dongs> maybe you can abuse CAN transmitter to drive led
2020-10-06T14:59:43 < karlp> wire...
2020-10-06T14:59:47 < Mangy_Dog> <jpa-> Mangy_Dog: you can do the usual DMA to GPIO->BSRR trick
2020-10-06T14:59:47 < Mangy_Dog> <jpa-> (trigger DMA by the timer pwm channel, configure it to write on/off toggle to GPIO port)
2020-10-06T14:59:57 < dongs> ^ yeah that.
2020-10-06T15:00:04 < karlp> you're gonna spennnd wayyyyy to much time dicking aroudn with sw 
2020-10-06T15:00:09 < Mangy_Dog> karlp ive just had another look at the pcb tbh using a wire is going to be REALLY difficult to solder in
2020-10-06T15:00:29 < dongs> is the pin you want with a timer unused?
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2020-10-06T15:02:49 < Mangy_Dog> ?
2020-10-06T15:02:59 < dongs> the pin wehre you'd wire it to
2020-10-06T15:03:06 < Mangy_Dog> yeah PA15
2020-10-06T15:03:15 < Mangy_Dog> its not wired to anything
2020-10-06T15:03:26 < dongs> this is so easy, fuck off
2020-10-06T15:03:31 < dongs> just get some transformer wire
2020-10-06T15:03:38 < dongs> tin both ends
2020-10-06T15:03:42 < dongs> then just solder on top of the package
2020-10-06T15:03:44 < dongs> done
2020-10-06T15:06:09 < dongs> also dont use F103 in any new designs lmao
2020-10-06T15:06:22 < dongs> pick something with v2 gpio/peripherals
2020-10-06T15:07:31 < Mangy_Dog> https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/695271473308237985/763009495986470912/unknown.png
2020-10-06T15:07:34 < Mangy_Dog> sure i could so that
2020-10-06T15:07:38 < Mangy_Dog> but i dont have amp wire that fine
2020-10-06T15:07:41 < Mangy_Dog> i mean
2020-10-06T15:07:43 < Mangy_Dog> big enough
2020-10-06T15:07:46 < Mangy_Dog> i have threadded stuff
2020-10-06T15:07:54 < dongs> find any transformer and knock it apart
2020-10-06T15:07:58 < dongs> thats teh wire you want
2020-10-06T15:08:05 < dongs> gold/transformer wire
2020-10-06T15:08:11 < Mangy_Dog> v2gpio?
2020-10-06T15:08:27 < dongs> just in general newer peripehrals
2020-10-06T15:08:34 < dongs> like new uart, GPIO with AF stuff properly done
2020-10-06T15:08:43 < dongs> AF_xx modes instead of fixed peripherals per min
2020-10-06T15:08:43 < Mangy_Dog> AF?
2020-10-06T15:08:45 < dongs> pin
2020-10-06T15:08:48 < dongs> alternate function stuff.
2020-10-06T15:08:51 < Mangy_Dog> oh
2020-10-06T15:08:58 < dongs> like F0/L0/F3/F7/some F4s? i think are using that shit
2020-10-06T15:09:04 < Mangy_Dog> SOooo nearly all pins can be re routed?
2020-10-06T15:09:11 < zyp> Mangy_Dog, just find some plain stranded wire, untwist it and use a single strand
2020-10-06T15:09:23 < dongs> nah its not a matrix like other vendors.
2020-10-06T15:09:32 < dongs> but still more flexibility
2020-10-06T15:09:38 < Mangy_Dog> zyp i have stranged enamel wire... 
2020-10-06T15:09:47 < zyp> that's what I did for this: https://bin.jvnv.net/file/oQZwd.jpg
2020-10-06T15:09:48 < Mangy_Dog> but like i say its stranded
2020-10-06T15:09:54 < zyp> meh, fuck enamelled wire
2020-10-06T15:11:02 < zyp> if all you need to do is a short jump over the package, there shouldn't be anything other conductive in range that it can touch even if it moves
2020-10-06T15:11:22 < Mangy_Dog> hmm
2020-10-06T15:11:24 < zyp> and if that's still not good enough, just cover it with glue
2020-10-06T15:11:34 < Mangy_Dog> yeah i might glue it if i do
2020-10-06T15:11:40 < Mangy_Dog> at the least that would protect it
2020-10-06T15:11:45 < Mangy_Dog> as the user can go inside the box
2020-10-06T15:11:47 < Mangy_Dog> to recharge it
2020-10-06T15:11:54 < Mangy_Dog> wouldnt want them knocking it
2020-10-06T15:12:23 < dongs> is this designed with kikecad
2020-10-06T15:12:27 < jpa-> learning how to do DMA wouldn't be wasted time, though
2020-10-06T15:12:31 < dongs> how the fuck did you end up with a slide siwtch facing INTO the board?
2020-10-06T15:12:43 < zyp> just use something stiffer, I like using wires from signle strand cat5
2020-10-06T15:13:31 < Mangy_Dog> tbh i would like to know dma
2020-10-06T15:13:35 < zyp> https://bin.jvnv.net/file/XJfyF.JPG
2020-10-06T15:13:42 < Mangy_Dog> as currently my tlc5947 driver i made is bitbanged
2020-10-06T15:13:50 < Mangy_Dog> making it dma controlled would be better
2020-10-06T15:14:04 < Streaker> that's gross
2020-10-06T15:14:19 < zyp> pff
2020-10-06T15:14:53 < zyp> also this: https://bin.jvnv.net/file/onqan.jpg
2020-10-06T15:15:08 < Mangy_Dog> lol
2020-10-06T15:15:12 < Mangy_Dog> zyp i did something simular
2020-10-06T15:15:23 < zyp> I didn't designed the board, I just fixed it
2020-10-06T15:15:28 < zyp> -ed
2020-10-06T15:15:39 < Mangy_Dog> got sop8 and sot6 foot prints mixed up of a same epprom once... had to wire up like that to get it to work
2020-10-06T15:15:52 < Mangy_Dog> at least on the early prototype
2020-10-06T15:17:00 < dongs> https://i.imgur.com/ElyvHth.jpg pfft
2020-10-06T15:17:07 < dongs> i don't even NEED wires to fix this
2020-10-06T15:17:22 < Mangy_Dog> :o
2020-10-06T15:17:24 < zyp> :D
2020-10-06T15:18:11 < dongs> the vertical/horizontal fat conductor is 2.54mm pin header pin
2020-10-06T15:18:40 < zyp> https://bin.jvnv.net/file/3QJ4w.JPG <- I didn't have larger resistances so I just put some in series
2020-10-06T15:18:55 < Streaker> stonehenge
2020-10-06T15:19:16 < Streaker> your soldering iron is too hot I think. you have burnt flux everywhere.
2020-10-06T15:19:18 < dongs> imagine not having a resistor sample book on hand
2020-10-06T15:19:29 < zyp> meh
2020-10-06T15:19:50 < zyp> https://bin.jvnv.net/file/m0yyr.JPG <- easier to just stack caps until I get the right value
2020-10-06T15:38:15 < Mangy_Dog> https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/695271473308237985/763017204651917312/IMG_20201006_133740.jpg
2020-10-06T15:38:22 < Mangy_Dog> fucking managed it 
2020-10-06T15:38:28 < Mangy_Dog> now just got to do it 2 more imtes
2020-10-06T15:38:41 < Mangy_Dog> times
2020-10-06T15:38:56 < Mangy_Dog> i really need a good magnifyer
2020-10-06T15:39:00 < karlp> sheeeeet dongs | https://i.imgur.com/ElyvHth.jpg pfft nice one...
2020-10-06T15:42:06 < karlp> dongs/zyp I like how you both  had large reworkds of ksz88 parts ;)
2020-10-06T15:45:00 < karlp> congrats on the rework Mangy_Dog,  you also made your first zypsnips entry!
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2020-10-06T15:47:06 < Mangy_Dog> zypsnips?
2020-10-06T15:47:29 < karlp> it's in the topic...
2020-10-06T15:48:26 < karlp> https://github.com/karlp/zypsnips/blob/master/greenwire-might-and-power.txt#L53
2020-10-06T15:48:48 < karlp> I have a coupel in the office I should really share
2020-10-06T15:49:28 < Mangy_Dog> oohh
2020-10-06T15:49:48 < Mangy_Dog> so its like a hall of shame? :D
2020-10-06T15:53:10 < karlp> fame
2020-10-06T15:53:24 < karlp> encourages people that they too can do it, it's nnothing wrong
2020-10-06T15:53:33 < karlp> it's "IRC wisdom"
2020-10-06T15:53:35 < Mangy_Dog> :p
2020-10-06T16:03:32 < Mangy_Dog> third one fixed
2020-10-06T16:05:06 < karlp> no more sw!
2020-10-06T16:05:09 < karlp> all finished
2020-10-06T16:05:22 < karlp> (just remember to fix the hardware before you build more...)
2020-10-06T16:05:32 < Mangy_Dog> nods
2020-10-06T16:05:35 < Mangy_Dog> well maybe
2020-10-06T16:05:41 < Mangy_Dog> if i only need to make one or two more
2020-10-06T16:05:47 < Mangy_Dog> ill just hack them too
2020-10-06T16:05:52 < Mangy_Dog> but if i get many more then sure 
2020-10-06T16:06:09 < Mangy_Dog> not ideal
2020-10-06T16:06:19 < Mangy_Dog> but beats spending money
2020-10-06T16:06:47 < dongs> karlp: the ksz i used is fun. 3 port hub with mII and 2 phys
2020-10-06T16:07:39 < karlp> wtf were you greenwiring there though?
2020-10-06T16:13:05 < aandrew> that is a nice switch
2020-10-06T16:15:35 < dongs> karlp: the pulldowns + 75R on TX/RX diff lines
2020-10-06T16:27:02 < mawk> less than in C PaulFertser 
2020-10-06T16:27:12 < mawk> char * isn't convertible to anything
2020-10-06T16:27:21 < mawk> but anything is convertible to char *
2020-10-06T16:28:01 < mawk> am I in the hall of fame??
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2020-10-06T16:30:45 < karlp> I don'ttt consider math nerding to be relevannt channel wisdom, so... unlikely? :)
2020-10-06T16:31:04 < karlp> but apparently yes.
2020-10-06T16:31:04 < karlp> maths.txt
2020-10-06T16:31:13 < PaulFertser> https://www.semtech.com/images/wireless-rf/wireless-rf-banner3.jpg 404 :(
2020-10-06T16:31:14 < mawk> lol
2020-10-06T16:31:28 < karlp> PaulFertser: eh, probably should have saved it locally.
2020-10-06T16:31:32 < karlp> bane of the internet.
2020-10-06T16:45:07 < aandrew> holy fuck microchip stop with teh popup LOOK WE GOT 3D MODELS AND SHIT 
2020-10-06T16:46:26 < Steffanx> Wrong channel aandrew
2020-10-06T16:46:42 < Steffanx> This is for STMicroelectronics.
2020-10-06T16:46:43 < aandrew> nope right channel
2020-10-06T16:46:49 < aandrew> I'm looking up switch ICs
2020-10-06T16:46:57 < karlp> and we all like their regulators and shits
2020-10-06T16:47:04 < aandrew> need 3 PHY 1 MAC and they don't have it. 2/1, 2/2 or 3/1
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2020-10-06T16:52:19 < zyp> aandrew, hmm?
2020-10-06T16:52:36 < zyp> you mean you need 3 PHY and 1 RMII?
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2020-10-06T16:53:50 < aandrew> yes
2020-10-06T16:53:58 < aandrew> sorry 3 PHY 4 MAC
2020-10-06T16:54:04 < aandrew> only 1/4 into my coffee 
2020-10-06T16:54:48 < zyp> RMII or RGMII?
2020-10-06T16:55:39 < aandrew> 10mbps is fine, but you get 100 for free
2020-10-06T16:57:46 < zyp> hmm, I haven't really seen any switch chips with more than two *MII ports except SGMII
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2020-10-06T17:13:37 < zyp> you could use a pair of KSZ9897R, hooked together by PHY ports, that'll give you four *MII interfaces and 8 available PHY interfaces :p
2020-10-06T17:13:46 < aandrew> lol
2020-10-06T17:14:16 < zyp> or one of those plus two phys to get another two *MII interfaces
2020-10-06T17:14:48 < zyp> what are you doing anyway?
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2020-10-06T17:24:40 < aandrew> well one of the things I want to make is a simple infrastructure monitor. three ethernet ports, one to the cable modem, one to one of my switches, and one to antoher switch. three relay-switched outlets. verify traffic is getting through everything and power cycle the devices that aren't working
2020-10-06T17:25:36 < aandrew> I can do it with stupid wiznet or spi MAC+PHYs but it might be nice to just have the STM32 MAC and a switch and do it more cleanly (at least from a hardware perspective)
2020-10-06T17:28:49 < PaulFertser> aandrew: have you considered configuring the switch and using trunking on *MII port?
2020-10-06T17:30:54 < zyp> yeah, the explanation is not really clear to me, but it sounds like something you can do with VLANs or something
2020-10-06T17:31:11 < zyp> I don't see where the MAC ports enter the picture
2020-10-06T17:31:27 < aandrew> PaulFertser: that is exactly what I was looking at using a switch like this for
2020-10-06T17:31:47 < aandrew> no vlans, that means my infrastructure switches also need to support that
2020-10-06T17:31:52 < PaulFertser> aandrew: no
2020-10-06T17:31:54 < aandrew> the whole point is to not trust the switches
2020-10-06T17:31:54 < zyp> no, it doesn't
2020-10-06T17:32:15 < zyp> switch can be configured to push/pop tags
2020-10-06T17:32:32 < aandrew> again, I don't want to trust my switches, the entire point of this is to verify they're working and identify WHICH is not working
2020-10-06T17:32:33 < PaulFertser> aandrew: you configure the switch IC to assign untagged physical ports to different vlans, and get traffic for all the different vlans from it via tagged *MII 
2020-10-06T17:32:51 < aandrew> PaulFertser: oh you're talking on the STM32 side
2020-10-06T17:32:51 < aandrew> yes
2020-10-06T17:33:10 < zyp> yeah, VLAN tags don't need to exit your device
2020-10-06T17:33:21 < zyp> so other devices do not have to be VLAN aware or anything
2020-10-06T17:33:28 < aandrew> THAT is kind of the point of using the switch, yes. 
2020-10-06T17:34:32 < zyp> you can also use VLANs to split a switch into segments without any tags at all
2020-10-06T17:34:54 < zyp> i.e. ports 1 and 2 are untagged vlan 1, ports 3 and 4 are untagged vlan 2 and so on
2020-10-06T17:35:42 < aandrew> port 1 = modem (stm32 vlan1), port 2 = gigabit switch (stm32 vlan2), port 3 = 100mbit poe switch (stm32 vlan3). STM32 can ping the world through the 100mbit port. if it gets a response it means the whole stack works. (my connection is modem -> fw -> gigabit -> 100mbit). If it didn't work, I can ping each part separately to find the failed connection and cycle it
2020-10-06T17:36:50 < zyp> yeah, and you can move ports between vlans seamlessly
2020-10-06T17:36:58 < aandrew> right, but that's not necessary for this
2020-10-06T17:37:11 < aandrew> I like this solution way better than three wiznet devices or whatever
2020-10-06T17:38:15 < PaulFertser> Now the question is why it needs to be custom hardware and why can't you just use any OpenWrt device to do that?
2020-10-06T17:38:29 < zyp> also that :)
2020-10-06T17:40:00 < karlp> https://xiaomi-mi.com/wifi-routers/xiaomi-mi-wifi-router-mini-white/ are super cheap, three net prots, usb, openwrt supported...
2020-10-06T17:40:29 < karlp> I think aandrew wnats to build his own hardware that he trusts, instead of the cots switches that he doesn't trust...
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2020-10-06T17:42:09 < aandrew> PaulFertser: openwrt doesn't have powered relays and I don't want to arduinoify this shit
2020-10-06T17:42:31 < aandrew> I just want something I can trust to do the job and not run linux and a thousand other little programs
2020-10-06T17:42:43 < PaulFertser> aandrew: you can just add your relays and control via SoC GPIOs.
2020-10-06T17:42:55 < aandrew> PaulFertser: > and I don't want to arduinoify this shit
2020-10-06T17:43:13 < PaulFertser> Yeah, I see
2020-10-06T17:43:48 < aandrew> if I'm building a PCB I'm gonna do it right. You're 100% correct, this can be done with any openwrt-compatible board, or an rpi or even arduino, it's not a challenging project
2020-10-06T17:44:17 < karlp> how often has this been a problem for you?
2020-10-06T17:44:25 < aandrew> very, very infrequently
2020-10-06T17:44:56 < aandrew> but when it happens I'm usually 1000km away and trying to get my wife or a kid to try to be my eyes and hands while they're pissed that the internet's not working is not something anyone enjoys
2020-10-06T17:45:14 < karlp> surely at that point it's just "power cycle the whole lot" ?
2020-10-06T17:45:35 < karlp> like, why are you trying to diagnose what part is failing and autorestart just that one?
2020-10-06T17:47:00 < PaulFertser> Diagnosing that will help to get statistics and probably that will be convincing enough to change some specific part of the setup.
2020-10-06T17:47:31 < aandrew> nobody gives a shit that it's up 99.9% of the time, they're just pissed that it's not working NOW
2020-10-06T17:47:52 < PaulFertser> Got an SLA arrangement with them? ;)
2020-10-06T17:48:35 < aandrew> no, but 9h of downtime/yr is about right in my estimation 
2020-10-06T17:50:01 < aandrew> the other thing I'd like to do to shore this up is to have a phone or other device with a legit SIM on my plan so it can fail over if it's the upstream that's dead, but I need to work more on my opnsense rules to make sure streaming and so on is not possible if it's on the cell connection
2020-10-06T17:50:07 < aandrew> basic email and stuff only
2020-10-06T17:52:09 < zyp> just throttle it enough that streaming and stuff won't be enjoyable and that'll take care of itself
2020-10-06T17:52:20 < aandrew> :-)
2020-10-06T17:54:04 < mawk> once kid gets tech savvy enough he will circumvent your firewall
2020-10-06T17:54:06 < mawk> then you will be proud
2020-10-06T17:55:52 < PaulFertser> Or probably by that time LTE there will be as good as it is now in Moscow.
2020-10-06T17:56:10 < mawk> 5G*
2020-10-06T17:56:12 < mawk> walk with your future
2020-10-06T17:56:19 < mawk> are you amish or what
2020-10-06T17:56:24 < mawk> ©president Macron
2020-10-06T17:57:38 < PaulFertser> Is 5G an actual communication specification standard or is it the same deal as with 3G/4G which specify bandwidth and latency requirements only?
2020-10-06T17:58:51 < mawk> 5G is a "radio access technology"
2020-10-06T17:59:18 < mawk> so I guess it's communication standard
2020-10-06T18:00:06 < PaulFertser> "radio access"? as in FDMA/CDMA?
2020-10-06T18:00:26 < PaulFertser> TDMA
2020-10-06T18:01:18 < mawk> not sure it's that low level
2020-10-06T18:02:30 < mawk> more like on the level of umts and such
2020-10-06T18:02:41 < mawk> I'm not sure who exactly defines the terms anyway
2020-10-06T18:02:56 < mawk> probably some standard agency that will want $400 from you to reads the documents
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2020-10-06T18:42:01 < karlp> there's new band definitions and things, so yeah, itðs pretty low level
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2020-10-06T18:42:50 < karlp> it's 3gpp-r15 and r16
2020-10-06T18:57:35 < aandrew> so next question - where would I go to buy plastic enclosures that I can design a PCB for which already have typical holes for RJ45, LEDs, etc., etc.
2020-10-06T18:57:51 < aandrew> I know there are companies I can go to in NA but they're usually expensive, just want a generic cheap case for this kind of thing
2020-10-06T18:59:11 < PaulFertser> Hobbyists like to 3D print those these days.
2020-10-06T18:59:42 < qyx> so I made a butterworth FIR
2020-10-06T18:59:53 < qyx> my naive implementation takes 8ms for 1 s of samples
2020-10-06T19:00:22 < qyx> but it doesn't work, probably something overflows somewhere :S
2020-10-06T19:00:37 < qyx> so I copypasted a floating point version from https://www-users.cs.york.ac.uk/~fisher/cgi-bin/mkfscript
2020-10-06T19:00:42 < qyx> now it works
2020-10-06T19:00:48 < qyx> but takes 219ms for 1 s of samples
2020-10-06T19:01:58 < aandrew> qyx: sure but now you can feed data through both the fp and integer versions and see where things are breaking
2020-10-06T19:02:18 < mawk> 219ms lag that's acceptable
2020-10-06T19:02:36 < mawk> users always demand too much, they should be happy with what they have
2020-10-06T19:02:40 < aandrew> PaulFertser: yeah, no thanks :-)
2020-10-06T19:02:59 < mawk> you don't like shitty cheap plastic appearance aandrew ??
2020-10-06T19:03:10 < mawk> you can massage with acetone to make it smooth
2020-10-06T19:03:26 < aandrew> I don't mind shitty cheap plastic, I just don't want it looking I sculpted it out of plasticene 
2020-10-06T19:04:32 < aandrew> I got a nice IP65 project box for the irrigation controller, but this is different
2020-10-06T19:04:45 < aandrew> protocase does this kind of thing
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2020-10-06T19:07:49 < Mangy_Dog>  strange little issue c++... Ive made a simple class. And I want to read one of the values inside the public portion of the class.... Ive split my project up over a few .h files. In my main file i have the class and in the header file thats included bellow the creation of the class. Im trying to get the value from that variable inside the class... something = class.theValue;  Its compiling 
2020-10-06T19:07:49 < Mangy_Dog> just fine in arduino IDE. But in sloeber/eclipse while i can see the value in code auto completion(ctrl space) , i get an "could not be resolved" error on the variable, but not on the class assignment. And it wont compile in sloeber/eclipse 
2020-10-06T19:08:53 < mawk> I've seen you crosspost Mangy_Dog 
2020-10-06T19:08:56 < mawk> how rude
2020-10-06T19:09:03 < mawk> nobody will answer you for this injury
2020-10-06T19:09:05 < Mangy_Dog> posted in two channels :p
2020-10-06T19:09:12 < Mangy_Dog> here and in programming
2020-10-06T19:09:18 < Mangy_Dog> not everyone here is there and not everyone there is here
2020-10-06T19:09:38 < mawk> you mean class::theValue?
2020-10-06T19:09:51 < Mangy_Dog> that didnt work either
2020-10-06T19:09:53 < mawk> that's how you get static variables from inside a class
2020-10-06T19:09:58 < mawk> well, that's the only thing that would work
2020-10-06T19:10:05 < mawk> but you also need to define the variable in a .c
2020-10-06T19:10:07 < mawk> that's all
2020-10-06T19:10:23 < mawk> like class C { static int theVariable; }; int C::theVariable;
2020-10-06T19:10:28 < mawk> the second statement should be in .c
2020-10-06T19:10:38 < mawk> get it Mangy_Dog ?
2020-10-06T19:10:48 < mawk> C.theVariable never ever works
2020-10-06T19:10:57 < Mangy_Dog> well it works in arduino ird :p
2020-10-06T19:10:59 < Mangy_Dog> ide
2020-10-06T19:11:16 < mawk> maybe it doesn't underline in red in arduino ide
2020-10-06T19:11:21 < mawk> but in real C++ that's how it works
2020-10-06T19:11:32 < Mangy_Dog> it doesnt just not red underline it but it compiles........ and works.
2020-10-06T19:11:35 < mawk> . is to access instance properties and methods
2020-10-06T19:11:45  * mawk doubts intensely
2020-10-06T19:12:00 < Steffanx> No doubts mawk.
2020-10-06T19:12:06 < Steffanx> Dont have those
2020-10-06T19:12:10 < mawk> very intense doubt
2020-10-06T19:12:33 < Steffanx> Will you be alright?
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2020-10-06T19:14:24 < mawk> Mangy_Dog: https://wandbox.org/permlink/xB8GRqiVSfYcyK3G
2020-10-06T19:14:25 < mawk> liek that
2020-10-06T19:14:31 < mawk> click on the "stuff.h" file to see the .h
2020-10-06T19:15:33 < mawk> in C++17 you can do without the definition Mangy_Dog 
2020-10-06T19:15:34 < Mangy_Dog> hmmm
2020-10-06T19:15:36 < mawk> if you declare constexpr instead of const
2020-10-06T19:15:53 < mawk> but if C++14/not const, then you need the definition as well
2020-10-06T19:16:13 < mawk> C++17 edition: https://wandbox.org/permlink/7xkUxNGSwb8X8sHl
2020-10-06T19:18:10 < mawk> get it Mangy_Dog ????
2020-10-06T19:18:16 < mawk> . will never work for what you want
2020-10-06T19:18:18 < mawk> in real men's C++
2020-10-06T19:19:42 < Mangy_Dog> i read it but im also double checking something one min sorry
2020-10-06T19:19:51 < mawk> whatttttttttttttttttttttttttt
2020-10-06T19:19:53 < mawk> you don't believe me
2020-10-06T19:19:56 < mawk> how dare you
2020-10-06T19:19:59 < Mangy_Dog> i do...
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2020-10-06T19:23:50 < Mangy_Dog> hmmm
2020-10-06T19:23:55 < Mangy_Dog> how do i link the code i just made
2020-10-06T19:24:03 < Mangy_Dog> (the code doesnt work but im just showing a basic example)
2020-10-06T19:26:40 < Mangy_Dog> https://wandbox.org/permlink/SSG5KJQ2XqMeMEjc  there and it works
2020-10-06T19:26:49 < Mangy_Dog> but this is all within the main
2020-10-06T19:36:35 < Mangy_Dog> anyway thats what im trying to do in the editor... ti works in arduino it works on wandbox.... its not working in eclipse/sloeber at least when im trying to call this from the other head
2020-10-06T19:36:37 < Mangy_Dog> header
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2020-10-06T19:37:54 < Laurenceb> >google for Merida
2020-10-06T19:37:59 < Laurenceb> >get a bike company
2020-10-06T19:38:04 < Laurenceb> the absolute fucking state
2020-10-06T19:39:52 < Cracki> wat did you expect, information on the city?
2020-10-06T19:40:39 < Cracki> or did you mean https://disney.fandom.com/wiki/Merida
2020-10-06T19:41:02 < Laurenceb> the city
2020-10-06T19:41:16 < Laurenceb> one of the largest in mexico and this is the result
2020-10-06T19:41:21 < Laurenceb> absolute state
2020-10-06T19:42:09 -!- Laurenceb [2ed0c827@39.200.208.46.dyn.plus.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
2020-10-06T19:45:13 < Steffanx> ...
2020-10-06T19:52:30 < bitmask> https://i.imgur.com/xreepNX.png?1
2020-10-06T19:52:33 < bitmask> isnt she cute?
2020-10-06T19:56:36 < Mangy_Dog> nice!
2020-10-06T19:57:00 < Mangy_Dog> genuingly impressed
2020-10-06T19:57:05 < Mangy_Dog> your own design?
2020-10-06T19:58:32 < Mangy_Dog> and mawk did you see my link?
2020-10-06T19:59:24 < boddax> job she doing is nice too?
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2020-10-06T20:07:01 < bitmask> Mangy_Dog some, mostly its whats called an AM8 BLV
2020-10-06T20:07:13 < bitmask> but I designed a lot of the printed parts
2020-10-06T20:07:33 < Mangy_Dog> ohhh
2020-10-06T20:07:49 < Mangy_Dog> i dont think ive seen full rails on a kit printer before
2020-10-06T20:07:52 < bitmask> the extruder mount, the lcd holder that slides under the printer, and modified the case from another design, so I guess not that much but those are the important bits
2020-10-06T20:07:57 < Mangy_Dog> and chinese printers wont use a duet
2020-10-06T20:08:18 < bitmask> yea its all custom, just followed a guide for the frame build and ordered everything separately
2020-10-06T20:08:41 < Mangy_Dog> its nice
2020-10-06T20:08:44 < bitmask> thanks
2020-10-06T20:08:48 < Mangy_Dog> must print super solid prints
2020-10-06T20:08:50 < bitmask> cant wait to see how it prints
2020-10-06T20:08:59 < Mangy_Dog> i expect zero z handing at all
2020-10-06T20:09:08 < Mangy_Dog> as long as your a frame is secure
2020-10-06T20:09:27 < bitmask> only problem is aligning the mgn rails can be finicky so i just gotta make sure theres no binding in the z axis
2020-10-06T20:09:34 < Mangy_Dog> nods
2020-10-06T20:09:35 < karlp> bitmask:gotta be careful with your paperwork in screenshots dude :)
2020-10-06T20:09:46 < bitmask> heh whatever
2020-10-06T20:09:55 < Mangy_Dog> oops
2020-10-06T20:10:13 < karlp> we're all friends, its ok, butt, those other guys.... ;)
2020-10-06T20:10:13 < Mangy_Dog> zoom enhance!
2020-10-06T20:10:29 < bitmask> :)
2020-10-06T20:10:29 < Mangy_Dog> yeah i usually try my best to hide anything personally identifying
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2020-10-06T20:10:51 < bitmask> i usually look for reflections cause im usually naked at home but never really thought about papers
2020-10-06T20:11:15 < Mangy_Dog> i watch out for reflections because im pretty sure i make people eyes bleed at the sight of me
2020-10-06T20:11:16 < antto> u wut
2020-10-06T20:11:31 < antto> NSFW urself, bitmask
2020-10-06T20:11:32 < Mangy_Dog> too cold to be naked here!
2020-10-06T20:11:50  * antto ORs bitmask with all 1s
2020-10-06T20:11:57 < bitmask> heh
2020-10-06T20:12:22 < karlp> so does htat printer have muhc more print volume than common or what?
2020-10-06T20:12:46 < Mangy_Dog> looks like a 250x300 bed
2020-10-06T20:12:58 < Cracki> why bother? you're all vampires anyway, you don't reflect
2020-10-06T20:13:31 < bitmask> nah print volume is pretty standard, im just coming from an acrylic frame (anet a6) so its just a much more robust printer
2020-10-06T20:13:43 < bitmask> and the mainboard is a million times better with trinamic drivers
2020-10-06T20:18:02 < Mangy_Dog> https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/695271473308237985/763087314867978240/unknown.png  seriously this is doing my head in why wont this work?  Like i say it compiles in Arduino IDE... but not in eclipse/sloeber, and while code completion sees the variable, when it finish writing I get the "could be be resolved" error on the variable portion of the class object....
2020-10-06T20:18:24 < bitmask> tuning the bed pid now, upgrading to 24v makes a big difference
2020-10-06T20:18:45 < Mangy_Dog> ive really got to get my rodcore got railed back up and working
2020-10-06T20:19:13 < Mangy_Dog> spent over a 1000 quid building the thing and currently its just gathering dust as my sidewinder does most of my fdm stuff now
2020-10-06T20:19:24 < bitmask> railcore is def my next printer, just dont have room for it right now
2020-10-06T20:21:21 < bitmask> never tried pei (got a spring steel sheet covered in it), got tired of glass + hairspray
2020-10-06T20:22:12 < bitmask> i'll miss the smooth finish of glass though
2020-10-06T20:24:30 < bitmask> i guess you do mesh bed leveling without the sheet on there since it has texture
2020-10-06T20:27:12 < Mangy_Dog> i have smooth pei on my spring steal sheets
2020-10-06T20:27:14 < Mangy_Dog> and i fucking hate it
2020-10-06T20:27:19 < Mangy_Dog> nothing really sticks to it that well
2020-10-06T20:27:57 < bitmask> really, hmm
2020-10-06T20:28:03 < bitmask> guess i'll see how this works
2020-10-06T20:28:11 < Mangy_Dog> for me abs refuses to stick to it
2020-10-06T20:28:20 < Mangy_Dog> petg is rpetty ok
2020-10-06T20:28:23 < bitmask> do you add anything to it?
2020-10-06T20:28:25 < Mangy_Dog> still pulls off a little in corners
2020-10-06T20:28:27 < Mangy_Dog> as does pla
2020-10-06T20:28:42 < bitmask> ive never tried abs
2020-10-06T20:28:52 < Mangy_Dog> ive tried everything from hairspray to glue to abs slush to scuffing it up
2020-10-06T20:29:09 < Mangy_Dog> its like that smooth orange pai not the grainy stuff
2020-10-06T20:29:19 < Mangy_Dog> hich i imagine would be better
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2020-10-06T20:36:25 < bitmask> loading filament for the first time
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2020-10-06T20:37:00 < Steffanx> Will you be alriight?
2020-10-06T20:37:32 < Cracki> bed sheets are to be displayed in the morning
2020-10-06T20:41:10 < bitmask> i died
2020-10-06T20:41:36 < Cracki> impaled by the z axis
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2020-10-06T20:53:28 < BrainDamage> replace plastic extruder with spider colony
2020-10-06T20:54:26 < antto> or with scared ladybugs
2020-10-06T20:54:38 < Cracki> ink jet 3d printing is a thing. they use all those nozzles simultaneously
2020-10-06T20:56:09 < Cracki> sadly it's not purely "inkjet" but involves plastic powder. the ink is binder and/or IR-absorbent so the layer gets baked where ink fell, elsewhere it stays powdery
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2020-10-06T21:11:31 < mawk> should we respect religions?
2020-10-06T21:13:04 < qyx> In trial mode, number of taps cannot be over 100. Unfortunately our algorithm has returned 210 as optimal number of taps
2020-10-06T21:13:07 < qyx> what about no
2020-10-06T21:13:24 < mawk> lol
2020-10-06T21:14:39 < qyx> looking at https://paste.jvnv.net/view/b0bsr
2020-10-06T21:14:49 < qyx> how to normalize the taps?
2020-10-06T21:15:19 < qyx> the taps are -0.3089840925, 2.8336554355, etc?
2020-10-06T21:15:25 < qyx> should they sum to 1?
2020-10-06T21:15:31 < Cracki> don't take religion away from the normies. make a new one!
2020-10-06T21:16:38 < Cracki> qyx, they sum to zero _if_ you want zero output for zero input
2020-10-06T21:16:54 < Cracki> nvm, I'm tired
2020-10-06T21:17:37 < Cracki> where does it say 210 taps?
2020-10-06T21:17:48 < qyx> thats from some other design tool
2020-10-06T21:17:52 < qyx> this one looks legit
2020-10-06T21:18:11 < Cracki> why do you want to normalize them? do you just need to scale them for fixed point?
2020-10-06T21:18:16 < qyx> yes
2020-10-06T21:18:21 < qyx> may I just scale them?
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2020-10-06T21:19:37 < Cracki> hm I'm gawking at the weights for x[]
2020-10-06T21:19:49 < Cracki> they sum to 256
2020-10-06T21:19:54 < Cracki> so you have that factor at least
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2020-10-06T21:20:16 < Cracki> the weights for y[] probably have to stay as they are
2020-10-06T21:20:44 < qyx> ok so which are the actual coefficients I can feed to cmsis-dsp fir thing?
2020-10-06T21:20:50 < Cracki> what's the relation between x and y? I see lowpass, but is there a gain of 256 or what? is that shifted away anywhere?
2020-10-06T21:20:53 < qyx> or any other fir
2020-10-06T21:21:00 < qyx> no, no
2020-10-06T21:21:05 < Cracki> you ned both the 1,8,28... and the -0.3, 2.833, ...
2020-10-06T21:21:30 < Cracki> this filter you built depends on a history of _inputs_ and a history of _outputs_
2020-10-06T21:21:36 < Cracki> this is an IIR afaics
2020-10-06T21:21:43 < Cracki> because it depends on its own outputs
2020-10-06T21:21:47 < qyx> fuk, yeah you are right
2020-10-06T21:22:02 < qyx> shame on me
2020-10-06T21:22:13 < Cracki> nothing wrong with an IIR, just a different function :>
2020-10-06T21:22:20 < Cracki> (to implement it)
2020-10-06T21:23:42 < qyx>   @param[in] pkCoeffs   points to reflection coefficient buffer.  The array is of length numStages
2020-10-06T21:23:45 < qyx>   @param[in] pvCoeffs   points to ladder coefficient buffer.  The array is of length numStages+1
2020-10-06T21:23:48 < qyx> makes sense
2020-10-06T21:24:20 < qyx> so 1, 8, ... are ladder coeffs
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2020-10-06T21:24:41 < qyx> and -0.3089840925 are reflection coeffs
2020-10-06T21:24:59 < Cracki> I _think_ the y weights sum to 0... no they sum to 1, that's funny
2020-10-06T21:25:30 < qyx> I'll scale them to fit inside q15
2020-10-06T21:25:59 < qyx> somewhere I read it only affects the gain
2020-10-06T21:28:38 < Cracki> that recurrence relation is weird. 
2020-10-06T21:28:47 < Cracki> I expect some scaling somewhere but oh well
2020-10-06T21:29:57 < Cracki> >gain at dc    :   mag = 5.988720375e+07 
2020-10-06T21:29:59 < Cracki> that's a lot
2020-10-06T21:30:40 < Cracki> I think you need to give that form some more values
2020-10-06T21:30:57 < Cracki> that's a weird response I see here
2020-10-06T21:30:58 < mawk> I have found the most viable strategy
2020-10-06T21:31:27 < mawk> be a lazy dev, but overengineer all the code you write
2020-10-06T21:31:30 < Cracki> hm, their impulse and step response plots look ok so idk wat is going on
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2020-10-06T21:31:45 < mawk> they can't fire a "very good programmer" after all
2020-10-06T21:31:49 < mawk> by their words
2020-10-06T21:31:53 < Cracki> ah, "normalized", so they're lying
2020-10-06T21:32:08 < Cracki> sure they can fire a "very good programmer"
2020-10-06T21:32:21 < mawk> they're understaffed now
2020-10-06T21:32:40 < Cracki> they can't tell if you're "very good" or not
2020-10-06T21:32:40 < mawk> and I know too much about the whole system
2020-10-06T21:32:55 < mawk> why not
2020-10-06T21:33:07 < Cracki> hiring and firing are independent of skill. it's a coin toss.
2020-10-06T21:33:10 < upgrdman> altium pegs my gpu at 100% when i drag a PCB around in 2D mode... wtf, they don't know how to cache shit?! lol
2020-10-06T21:33:19 < Steffanx> You know how to be even more amazing mawk? Only work for 80% max, so you can show how amazing you are by doing the 20% extra when needed.
2020-10-06T21:33:22 < Cracki> they employ you for your skill, which they don't have themselves, so they're unable to judge your skill
2020-10-06T21:33:23 < mawk> maybe in mega corps
2020-10-06T21:33:35 < mawk> lol Steffanx 
2020-10-06T21:33:36 < mawk> yes
2020-10-06T21:33:45 < mawk> more like 20/80 though
2020-10-06T21:33:49 < mawk> than 80/20
2020-10-06T21:33:51 < Steffanx> hah
2020-10-06T21:33:54 < Steffanx> nah
2020-10-06T21:33:56 < Cracki> Scotty engineering, double the estimate multiple times
2020-10-06T21:34:01 < Cracki> fuck pareto
2020-10-06T21:34:12 < mawk> manager is pretty skilled
2020-10-06T21:34:17 < mawk> he hates managing
2020-10-06T21:34:19 < Cracki> safety margins are expressed in orders of magnitude
2020-10-06T21:34:26 < mawk> he would like to code only
2020-10-06T21:34:31 < mawk> lol
2020-10-06T21:35:34 < Cracki> oh qyx their code contains a GAIN definition they divide by
2020-10-06T21:36:29 < Cracki> that makes more sense now. their recurrence relation made no sense.
2020-10-06T21:36:54 < mawk> I want to play with recurrence too
2020-10-06T21:37:26 < Cracki> lol they scale the inputs by 1/6e7. that should cause _some_ headache with fixed point
2020-10-06T21:37:31 < Cracki> https://paste.jvnv.net/view/b0bsr
2020-10-06T21:37:39 < Cracki> his butterworth lowpass
2020-10-06T21:37:49 < Cracki> boss who wants to code, that's good
2020-10-06T21:40:38 < Steffanx> no those are the worst. managers that dont manage.
2020-10-06T21:40:51 < Steffanx> as long as they dont micro-manage
2020-10-06T21:41:14 < Cracki> managing people is delicate business
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2020-10-06T21:41:33 < Cracki> also includes knowing how to pick them
2020-10-06T21:42:20 < Cracki> when to fire them, when to push them or let them do their thing, how to pick teams
2020-10-06T21:42:39 < Cracki> how to shield them from shit from above and from the side
2020-10-06T21:43:10 < Cracki> how to throw shit back
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2020-10-06T22:08:39 < qyx> ok, filtering
2020-10-06T22:08:47 < qyx> output is at -32768
2020-10-06T22:09:13 < qyx> it takes 1161ms to process 35000 samples
2020-10-06T22:16:08 < qyx> it somehow works https://i.imgur.com/c9q3Hfl.png
2020-10-06T22:16:12 < qyx> except those spikes
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2020-10-06T22:20:28 < Cracki> things overflow and wrap?
2020-10-06T22:21:53 < qyx> whoa it works
2020-10-06T22:22:08 < qyx> maybe
2020-10-06T22:22:11 < Cracki> wizardry
2020-10-06T22:22:16 < qyx> but I need such filter for decimation
2020-10-06T22:22:27 < qyx> so I decimated the output (discarded 9/10 samples)
2020-10-06T22:22:51 < qyx> and now it looks like https://i.imgur.com/QwvxTWy.png
2020-10-06T22:24:19 < qyx> this is the reference I need to get https://i.imgur.com/PQElY0S.png
2020-10-06T22:24:46 < Cracki> looks close already
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2020-10-06T22:26:05 < qyx> I had to divide both ladder and reflextive coeffs with 1000
2020-10-06T22:33:12 < kakibitch> where is the musics crew
2020-10-06T22:34:04 < Cracki> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lL7jwhWAU_k
2020-10-06T22:35:00 < Cracki> recommend pressing >
2020-10-06T22:38:27 < Laurenceb> le Kim-Joy face
2020-10-06T22:41:39 < Cracki> fleshhh https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qN34WpTPPL0
2020-10-06T22:46:06 < kakibitch> Cracki: :)
2020-10-06T22:46:22 < Cracki> I just pretend they aren't girls
2020-10-06T22:46:55 < Steffanx> Why would you do that?
2020-10-06T22:47:05 < Steffanx> unless you arent into girls
2020-10-06T22:47:25 < Cracki> duuude
2020-10-06T22:47:39 < Steffanx> im sorry, im not woke.
2020-10-06T22:48:02 < Cracki> look up the meanings of "bundle of sticks". there are two.
2020-10-06T22:48:39 < Cracki> that's not a coincidence.
2020-10-06T22:49:03 < Cracki> can't decide if I like the music better at 1.25x or 1.5x
2020-10-06T22:49:13 < Steffanx> No thanks. Im not going to guess the right answer
2020-10-06T22:49:51 < Cracki> https://i.imgur.com/6rZ8g8R_d.webp?maxwidth=728&fidelity=grand
2020-10-06T22:49:57 < Steffanx> Have something semi-random than kakibitch https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q8ir8rVl2Z4
2020-10-06T22:50:36 < Cracki> yt stops at 2.0x
2020-10-06T22:50:56 < Cracki> there has to be research on neural networks for audio filtering that turns anything into hardbass
2020-10-06T22:50:59 < Laurenceb> fourth picture of kim joy (the one of her in the snow) is unironically very heartwarming and I can imagine being her husband taking her on trips to scandinavia and helping her learn new recipies and drinking whiskey and smoking cigars in the evening in my study while she cooks up a feast. also she's pregnant with my child
2020-10-06T22:51:35 < Cracki> you were born without the cringe gene. you can't feel cringe.
2020-10-06T22:51:42 < Laurenceb> I'm saving up to get myself a Kim Joy from Malaysia soon
2020-10-06T22:51:48 < kakibitch> is there a phobia of turning into homosexual?
2020-10-06T22:52:05 < Laurenceb> >it's one of those days where cooming doesn't take away the insufferable loneliness that comes with not having a Kim Joy
2020-10-06T22:52:44 < Cracki> afraid that Pence will zap you?
2020-10-06T22:52:48 < Laurenceb> weww there is a dedicated Kim Joy board
2020-10-06T22:52:59 < Cracki> I'd be more afraid that Biden touches my daughters
2020-10-06T22:53:21 < Cracki> he wouldn't even remember
2020-10-06T22:53:33 < Laurenceb> https://assets.heart.co.uk/2018/33/great-british-bake-off-2018-contestants-6-1534845473.jpg
2020-10-06T22:53:55 < Laurenceb> keeekkk the teeth
2020-10-06T22:54:06 < kakibitch> how is business blaxter?
2020-10-06T22:54:14 < Laurenceb> literal dinosaur mouth
2020-10-06T22:54:38 < Laurenceb> too busy shitposting and trolling 4cahn kim-joy fans for business :(
2020-10-06T22:54:38 < Steffanx> Laurenceb: i find the perfect mate for that person you just posted: https://imgur.com/a/Iw3wyA2
2020-10-06T22:54:43 < kakibitch> influx of startup money has begun?
2020-10-06T22:54:49 < Laurenceb> nope :(
2020-10-06T22:54:54 < Cracki> kek
2020-10-06T22:55:11 < Laurenceb> 4chan are in love with her
2020-10-06T22:55:11 < kakibitch> just troll your business and see if you catch anything?
2020-10-06T22:55:13 < Cracki> did you just intentionally use the word "influx"
2020-10-06T22:55:18 < kakibitch> yes
2020-10-06T22:55:42 < Cracki> I wonder if that word triggers him
2020-10-06T22:55:47 < kakibitch> who?
2020-10-06T22:55:52 < Cracki> the blaxter
2020-10-06T22:56:00 < Cracki> didn't he have to fight influxdb
2020-10-06T22:56:05 < Cracki> for the babbyshaker
2020-10-06T22:56:14 < Steffanx> and pulse oidio for mems data
2020-10-06T22:56:37 < Laurenceb> yeah
2020-10-06T22:56:46 < Cracki> influxdb, that time series database made by and for technically illiterate hipsters
2020-10-06T22:56:57 < Cracki> for meme data
2020-10-06T22:57:15 < Laurenceb> killing all ur xeon server cores
2020-10-06T22:57:34 < Cracki> shodda gone with TelemetryViewer
2020-10-06T22:58:08 < Laurenceb> keeek they thought a realtime display from influx would work using javascript
2020-10-06T22:58:17 < Cracki> hahaha
2020-10-06T22:58:19 < Cracki> sure
2020-10-06T22:58:32 < Laurenceb> even on the server it took about 20s/frame
2020-10-06T22:58:37 < Cracki> a handful of points per second maybe
2020-10-06T22:58:42 < Laurenceb> yeah
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2020-10-06T22:59:26 < Cracki> does that thing use svg drawing client-side? that's bound to be expensive given svg loves to be perfect rather than fast
2020-10-06T22:59:52 < Cracki> maybe some hipster figured out how to use webgl for drawing plots
2020-10-06T23:00:15 < Cracki> heh https://blog.scottlogic.com/2019/05/28/drawing-2d-charts-with-webgl.html
2020-10-06T23:01:24 < Cracki> kek https://webgl-plot-react.vercel.app/sine
2020-10-06T23:04:03 < Cracki> fuck that's smooth
2020-10-06T23:04:41 < Cracki> somehow chrome even manages to animate it without dropped frames. fancy.
2020-10-06T23:09:26 < kakibitch> it's all shaders
2020-10-06T23:09:31 < kakibitch> I assume
2020-10-06T23:09:43 < kakibitch> all gpu
2020-10-06T23:09:44 < Cracki> https://github.com/danchitnis/webgl-plot
2020-10-06T23:09:48 < Cracki> of course all gpu
2020-10-06T23:10:15 < kakibitch> nice
2020-10-06T23:10:24 < Cracki> and since webUSB exists too, you can ingest data like so
2020-10-06T23:10:47 < Cracki> but forget influxdb. they can't handle that data rates
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2020-10-06T23:10:56 < kakibitch> the fuk exists?
2020-10-06T23:11:07 < kakibitch> *rollseyes*
2020-10-06T23:11:11 < Cracki> webusb, yes
2020-10-06T23:11:17 < kakibitch> mental
2020-10-06T23:11:36 < Cracki> https://wicg.github.io/webusb/
2020-10-06T23:11:41 < Cracki> editors: all google
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2020-10-06T23:13:09 < Cracki> hahahahaha https://webbluetoothcg.github.io/web-bluetooth/
2020-10-06T23:14:07 < Cracki> it's kinda sensible. they're specifying "library" apis to javascript that runtimes can implement. it's nothing new.
2020-10-06T23:14:17 < mawk> web bluetooth
2020-10-06T23:14:20 < mawk> best idea
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2020-10-06T23:22:43 < Laurenceb> lollll
2020-10-06T23:22:48 < Laurenceb> fucking google
2020-10-06T23:22:50 < Laurenceb> https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/technology-54436575
2020-10-06T23:23:07 < Laurenceb> webchastity api when?
2020-10-06T23:23:50 < kakibitch> :p
2020-10-06T23:23:55 < kakibitch> what the heck
2020-10-06T23:24:39 < Laurenceb> The security researchers said they discovered a way to fool the server into disclosing the registered name of each device owner, among other personal details, as well as the co-ordinates of every location from where the app had been used.
2020-10-06T23:24:41 < Laurenceb> lolll whyt
2020-10-06T23:25:05 < Laurenceb> >Norway and Finland
2020-10-06T23:25:11 < Laurenceb> why am I not surprised
2020-10-06T23:25:52 < Cracki> kek
2020-10-06T23:26:17 < Cracki> "security researchers" playing with cock cages yeah right
2020-10-06T23:26:30 < Laurenceb> >cock cage just got hacked lads they're demanding bitcoin
2020-10-06T23:26:36 < Laurenceb> keek based 4chan
2020-10-06T23:26:46 < Cracki> >Penetration Testers
2020-10-06T23:27:06 < Cracki> >the firm [...] has a reputation
2020-10-06T23:27:21 < Cracki> >"smart" products
2020-10-06T23:27:55 < Cracki> I think their stock will skyrocket. the danger of being randomly controlled by anonymous internet trolls must give those weirdos such a kick
2020-10-06T23:29:53 < Cracki> >working on another internal device
2020-10-06T23:30:03 < Cracki> chastity butt plug
2020-10-06T23:39:32 < Steffanx> Ok
2020-10-06T23:43:08 -!- Miyu is now known as hackkitten
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2020-10-06T23:49:11 < Cracki> <nsfw description for sfw video> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S3K1oxVneLg
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--- Day changed Wed Oct 07 2020
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2020-10-07T00:04:57 < jly> Steffanx: RIP the great dutchman!
2020-10-07T00:05:34 < jly> https://www.abc.net.au/news/2020-10-07/eddie-van-halen-dies-aged-65-after-battle-with-cancer/12738288
2020-10-07T00:05:59 < Mangy_Dog> :<
2020-10-07T00:07:40 < Steffanx> I just read about it, no clue who that is jly
2020-10-07T00:07:47 < zyp> wat
2020-10-07T00:07:49 < Mangy_Dog> D:
2020-10-07T00:07:58 < jly> a dutch man who played his geeetarrrh!
2020-10-07T00:07:59 < Mangy_Dog> steffanx really?
2020-10-07T00:08:30 < Mangy_Dog> one of the greatest hair metal guitar players ever
2020-10-07T00:08:56 < Mangy_Dog> and you didnt know of them?
2020-10-07T00:09:21 < Mangy_Dog> next youll tell me you dont know who brian may is
2020-10-07T00:09:22 < jly> maybe the dutch call him a TRAITOR cause he went to the states :P
2020-10-07T00:09:37 < Mangy_Dog> to be fair i always thought he was amaerican :p
2020-10-07T00:09:46 < jly> he packed his stroopwafels and flucked off!
2020-10-07T00:10:03 < jly> guess i read too many guitar mags when i was a teen!
2020-10-07T00:10:21 < Mangy_Dog> i guess now he will never get to join wild stalions :(
2020-10-07T00:10:43 < jly> his guitar is in dimebags coffin (well his most famous one, one of them)
2020-10-07T00:14:51 < Steffanx> Metal... Mangy_Dog 
2020-10-07T00:15:37 < Mangy_Dog> hes still one of the greatest guitarists of our generation
2020-10-07T00:16:44 < Steffanx> Next your going to ask me if I give a damn about guitar players ;)
2020-10-07T00:16:55 < Mangy_Dog> jimmy page?
2020-10-07T00:17:05 < Mangy_Dog> jeff beck?
2020-10-07T00:18:15 < Mangy_Dog> Also the strange issue i was having earlier with the class variable not linking in the compiler......... well, installed a fresh eclipse, and sloeber as a plugin rather than then stand alone package... re built the library and hardware lists and...... It compiles correctly 
2020-10-07T00:18:31 < Mangy_Dog> so i can only guess something in the back end of the sloeber install something is borked
2020-10-07T00:18:40 < Steffanx> Ive been to a small performance of another dutch guitarist once, i didn't really enjoy it
2020-10-07T00:18:56 < Steffanx> It was Harry.
2020-10-07T00:21:47 < Steffanx> Did you know "sloeber" is like a semi-bad name for a poor guy Mangy_Dog ?
2020-10-07T00:21:54 < Steffanx> In dutchland 
2020-10-07T00:22:41 < Mangy_Dog> you know.......... i wouldnt be suprised if it was a word for "festering rotting corpse" if some language :p
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2020-10-07T00:28:26 < jly> kumpel
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2020-10-07T00:34:46 < Steffanx> Yes Jly.
2020-10-07T00:35:30 < jly> of course
2020-10-07T00:35:39 < jly> is the operator on
2020-10-07T00:40:30 < Steffanx> No, he died after walking in some weird green crystals. Where not sure what it is yet.
2020-10-07T00:40:40 < Steffanx> We're *
2020-10-07T00:43:48 < kakibitch> green crystals?
2020-10-07T00:48:38 < Steffanx> Yeah Dr. Mobius might know more about it kakibitch 
2020-10-07T00:53:29 < Steffanx> Didnt the brotherhood tell you kakibitch ?
2020-10-07T00:57:14 < jly> ROFL
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2020-10-07T01:40:26 < rmaw> can anyone recommend a logic analyser for 250mhz signals with at least 32 channels?
2020-10-07T01:40:35 < rmaw> something that wont break the bank ideally
2020-10-07T01:40:56 < rmaw> happy with a chinese clone of something if it works
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2020-10-07T01:57:04  * Mangy_Dog cries
2020-10-07T01:57:09 < Mangy_Dog> it was working for a little while 
2020-10-07T01:57:17 < Mangy_Dog> now the same error is coming up
2020-10-07T01:57:29 < Mangy_Dog> in the pure eclipse with sloeber pluigin
2020-10-07T01:59:58 < karlp> 250Mhz _and_ 32 channels?!
2020-10-07T02:00:12 < karlp> (presuming you meant big M, not little m)
2020-10-07T02:00:45 < karlp> even 32ch LAs aren't real common
2020-10-07T02:00:53 < karlp> what sort of shit are you doing you need 32channels at tthat speed for?
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2020-10-07T02:08:52 < Mangy_Dog> YOU GOT TO BE FUCKING KIDDING ME¬!
2020-10-07T02:08:55 < Mangy_Dog> found the fault
2020-10-07T02:09:02 < Mangy_Dog> its the sloeber euto generated file
2020-10-07T02:09:10 < Mangy_Dog> its ifdef is wrong should be ifndef
2020-10-07T02:09:16 < Mangy_Dog> that was the cause of ALLLLLL the trouble
2020-10-07T02:09:16 < karlp> use crazy tools, get crazy results.
2020-10-07T02:11:24 < steverrrr> sloeber's video on the front page begins with a man yelling and abusing a cat.  Would not expect much
2020-10-07T02:13:46 < Mangy_Dog> lol
2020-10-07T02:13:55 < Mangy_Dog> i guess that is a red flag
2020-10-07T02:14:25 < Cracki> wtf
2020-10-07T02:14:55 < steverrrr> CLion, $100 well spent imo.  gogo IDE war
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2020-10-07T02:24:00 < karlp> how's clion these days on makefile projects?
2020-10-07T02:24:12 < karlp> I demoed it ages ago, but it was very heavily cmake and c++ focused.
2020-10-07T02:24:15 < steverrrr> fing ST needs to fire all their web devs.  Number of times I've been unable to submit a simple form to register for an event is atleast 3 now
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2020-10-07T02:24:32 < karlp> and cross compiling anyting was still "go and edit your cmake toolchain definitions externally"
2020-10-07T02:25:07 < steverrrr> karlp true, it's entirely focused around CMake.  even if you don't use CMake you would let CLion create a dummy CMakeLists.txt for you to keep itself happy
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2020-10-07T02:27:08 < steverrrr> I do all my toolchain stuff in the shell, but CLion can definitely do it all.  It's just extremely RAM intensive somehow to run builds in the IDE.
2020-10-07T02:27:38 < karlp> so, you're _only_ using it as ann editor?
2020-10-07T02:27:43 < karlp> you don't even build or debug in it?
2020-10-07T02:29:08 < steverrrr> I debug, actually it has a really slick "gdb target remote".  I've been having a great time doing "ssh -L 3333:localhost:3333 openocd-machine" and then tell CLion to "gdb target remote localhost:3333"
2020-10-07T02:30:03 < karlp> (you can add bind_to 0.0.0.0 to your openocd.cfg and drop the ssh forward if you like)
2020-10-07T02:30:07 < karlp> or bindto, I can't remember
2020-10-07T02:30:28 < karlp> default changed to only 127.0.0.1 for securitayyyyy but you can listen on all if that'
2020-10-07T02:30:32 < karlp> s more useful to you)
2020-10-07T02:30:53 < karlp> (also, use extended-remote, not remote, you get to start/restart properly...)
2020-10-07T02:30:56 < steverrrr> openocd-machine is a different machine, far away
2020-10-07T02:31:25 < karlp> alrightt, I have an openocd machine on the other side of the room, so I prefer to just connect to it directly :)
2020-10-07T02:31:46 < karlp> but yes, if it's reallllly remote, ssh is good :)
2020-10-07T02:32:10 < Mangy_Dog> im really kind of pissed off that ive wasted a lot of the day trying to fix this stupid error that weas basically caused by a autogenerated file not ifndeffing itself properly
2020-10-07T02:32:37 < steverrrr> but anyway CLion has no problem runing builds.  It's just not going to do anything for you, which is exactly what I want.  I freaking hate that eclipse and visual studio do stuff behind myback and then I depend on it for a successful build and not realize it
2020-10-07T02:32:51 < Mangy_Dog> whats doubly annoying is that every time i clean the project and rebuild the ifdef comes back..... as the file is auto generated again
2020-10-07T02:33:05 < Mangy_Dog> meaning im going to have to correct it every fucking time i clean the project to remove junk errors
2020-10-07T02:33:29 < karlp> steverrrr: which is why I was asking about makefile stuff, I want to be able to build what I'm going to be building, 
2020-10-07T02:33:52 < karlp> eclipse's magic "we'll build your project, somewhow, maybe" is complete garbage, but porting existing things tto cmake was equally garbage.
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2020-10-07T02:34:11 < karlp> netbeans can do cmake/make/scons projects natively, so I'm sticking with it for now,
2020-10-07T02:34:35 < karlp> the c/c++ pieces are finally returning to the apache netbeans as well, aftter a few years in the wilderness.
2020-10-07T02:35:05 < steverrrr> karlp cool, you are my indended audience for my youtube channel mostly about porting builds to CMake.  gtg tho, lates!
2020-10-07T02:35:16 < karlp> nope
2020-10-07T02:35:19 < karlp> not going to fucking port to cmake
2020-10-07T02:35:36 < Mangy_Dog> its stupid i guess because im not traditionally trained or anything. Im a fairly decent if not ok programmer when im focusing on the project.... Its all the faffing about getting the tools to work that wind me up. And yeah I dont know how to make my own make file.... or how the cores are trurly setup that make them work......
2020-10-07T02:35:38 < karlp> it's not better _enough_
2020-10-07T02:35:41 < Mangy_Dog> which is a detriment to me
2020-10-07T02:35:45 < steverrrr> my videos suck anyway now
2020-10-07T02:36:26 < Mangy_Dog> so i end up relying on.... basically broken tools
2020-10-07T02:36:33 < Mangy_Dog> to do some of that hardwork for me
2020-10-07T02:37:10 < karlp> and theen you see them break
2020-10-07T02:37:15 < karlp> and you decide to keep using them
2020-10-07T02:37:18 < karlp> over and over and over again...
2020-10-07T02:37:23 < karlp> and wonder why tthey're still broken?
2020-10-07T02:37:32 < Mangy_Dog> ive still not really been given a working alternative just yet
2020-10-07T02:38:02 < Mangy_Dog> vscode has tons of its own issues
2020-10-07T02:38:59 < Mangy_Dog> and its like a case of learning how to get round another programs issues, over knowing how to get round the issues ive come up with in my current ide
2020-10-07T02:39:37 < karlp> well, you're always in theis limbo of "I will _only_ use this specific version of someone's forked arduino code" and "Also, I'm not going to use the arduino ide it was intended for" right?
2020-10-07T02:40:16 < Mangy_Dog> the real arduino ide is a compelte utter pos to write complex code it
2020-10-07T02:40:35 < Mangy_Dog> and rogerclarks core wasnt really intended to be made just for the arduino ide
2020-10-07T02:40:49 < Mangy_Dog> it uses the enviroment sure
2020-10-07T02:40:57 < Mangy_Dog> but its still aimed at people to use other ides
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2020-10-07T02:43:33 < qyx> re: my spectrum thing, the Welch's method finally works, I have ~similar results to octave, it takes 1265ms to process 35000 samples (31.8 s), which is roughyl 4% CPU utilization at 16 MHz
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2020-10-07T03:20:01 < mawk> you're making a VU-meter or something qyx ?
2020-10-07T03:20:26 < mawk> a noise-meter
2020-10-07T03:22:57 < Mangy_Dog> karlp i put up a bug report on github for sloeber, the developer replied, it appears to be a known issue but not so much the ifdef on its own... It appears something int he linker doesnt like declirations in the main .ino file of the project. But if you place the declirations in a header file and then include that in the project they work fine and as expected....
2020-10-07T03:22:59 < Mangy_Dog> joy joy joy
2020-10-07T03:23:25 < Mangy_Dog> aaaaaaand its almost 1:30 am
2020-10-07T03:23:29 < Mangy_Dog> bed time
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2020-10-07T03:41:25 < karlp> "not using arudinno ide" "still using .ino files magically concatendated together.."
2020-10-07T03:41:38 < karlp> => surprise, linker confusions
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2020-10-07T08:36:30 < antto> why do i keep seeing crapduino?!
2020-10-07T08:36:44 < antto> don't u know it's crap?
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2020-10-07T09:34:37 < dongs> anyone know if I2C->OAR1 can be written without disabling/enabling i2c peripheral
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2020-10-07T09:56:18 < zyp> dongs, doesn't the reference manual know?
2020-10-07T09:56:25 < dongs> i ve read it but like
2020-10-07T09:56:28 < dongs> it doesnt say?
2020-10-07T09:56:31 < zyp> which chip?
2020-10-07T09:56:44 < dongs> F031 so RM0360
2020-10-07T09:57:54 < zyp> yeah, looks fine
2020-10-07T09:58:25 < zyp> looks like you have to set OA1EN=0 first, then write OA1, then OA1EN=1
2020-10-07T10:02:47 < dongs> oh hm
2020-10-07T10:02:52 < dongs> maybe if all i want is nack
2020-10-07T10:03:00 < dongs> i could just off oa1en
2020-10-07T10:05:28 < zyp> yeah, sure
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2020-10-07T10:37:45 < dongs> but i think this cockchip has i2c bug
2020-10-07T10:37:52 < dongs> when it tries nonacking address too many times
2020-10-07T10:38:05 < dongs> chiense garbage
2020-10-07T10:39:57 < zyp> fun
2020-10-07T10:41:01 < Steffanx> Its busy, you talk to fast
2020-10-07T11:47:42 < dongs> clang-based armcc still sucks
2020-10-07T11:48:04 < zyp> better switch to gcc then
2020-10-07T11:48:17 < dongs> no, that is literally gcc
2020-10-07T11:48:36 < dongs> oh gawd, with LTO armcc is unstoppable
2020-10-07T11:48:43 < dongs> 6k release build
2020-10-07T11:48:47 < dongs> vs 10k with armv6
2020-10-07T11:49:01 < zyp> still sucks, huh?
2020-10-07T11:51:00 < dongs> Program Size: Code=6140 RO-data=336 RW-data=52 ZI-data=2140  armcc with lto.. o wait, v6 has no lto option at all
2020-10-07T11:51:03 < dongs> ok well then fuckit
2020-10-07T11:51:36 < dongs> so 10k wiht -Oz
2020-10-07T11:52:21 < mawk> why not using gcc
2020-10-07T11:52:31 < dongs> cuz i only have 16k flash on this F0
2020-10-07T11:52:44 < dongs> just the fucking NEO-UCLIBC would take up that much
2020-10-07T11:52:48 < dongs> with all the sbrk and ot ehr faggot shit
2020-10-07T11:53:11 < zyp> are you even using the heap at all?
2020-10-07T11:53:19 < dongs> like malloc? no
2020-10-07T11:53:23 < dongs> i set that to zero
2020-10-07T11:53:27 < dongs> i am using 2k of ram yes
2020-10-07T11:53:28 < dongs> there'
2020-10-07T11:53:34 < dongs> s some buffers and shit. the number is correct.
2020-10-07T11:53:40 < zyp> no malloc means no sbrk
2020-10-07T11:55:33 < zyp> and it's not like sbrk is a large function either, it's literally something like uint32_t sbrk(uint32_t size) { static uint32_t next = _ebss; uint32_t r = next; next += size; return r; }
2020-10-07T11:58:24 < mawk> imagine if you had to provide mmap() instead
2020-10-07T12:02:05 < zyp> hmm, wonder how long this yocto shit is gonna take to build
2020-10-07T12:02:08 < dongs> zyp, i dont need to provide skike shit when i use keil
2020-10-07T12:02:18 < dongs> i just click button
2020-10-07T12:02:22 < dongs> and a .hex comes out
2020-10-07T12:02:48 < zyp> you still use tools that requires .hex files?
2020-10-07T12:03:00 < dongs> as oppposed to what, axf?
2020-10-07T12:03:04 < karlp> sure
2020-10-07T12:03:14 < zyp> elf, but yeah, axf is just elf nowadays isn't it?
2020-10-07T12:03:47 < dongs> same yae
2020-10-07T12:03:52 < dongs> ozone loads it up as normal elf
2020-10-07T12:03:57 < zyp> this yocto shit spent over a minute just parsing recipes, fun
2020-10-07T12:04:08 < dongs> i did a H3 buildroot test build
2020-10-07T12:04:14 < dongs> it took an hour or so and about 9gb of space
2020-10-07T12:04:15 < dongs> to build shit
2020-10-07T12:04:17 < dongs> but this was in a vm
2020-10-07T12:04:38 < zyp> this is for imx7
2020-10-07T12:04:43 < karlp> I've heard yocto is a lot longer than buildroot
2020-10-07T12:05:02 < zyp> probably
2020-10-07T12:05:11 < zyp> currently at 113 out of 5564 tasks :p
2020-10-07T12:05:50 < zyp> idk how big system it builds, I just started out with the configuration I got from the client
2020-10-07T12:06:18 < zyp> I figure I'll build and test that first to get an idea of what I need to change
2020-10-07T12:06:22 < karlp> I've currently not really seen what yocto does that makes it better than buildroot either, but *shrugs*
2020-10-07T12:07:05 < zyp> my impression is that it's more complex but more modular, everything is divided into layers that you can add together as you like
2020-10-07T12:07:21 < zyp> I dicked around with openembedded some years ago for the edison
2020-10-07T12:07:42 < dongs> dude buildroot had literally millions of options
2020-10-07T12:07:53 < dongs> i donno if it can be more "modular"
2020-10-07T12:08:51 < zyp> millions of options != modular
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2020-10-07T12:09:54 < zyp> like I said, everything is divided into layers, which are typically a git repo each
2020-10-07T12:10:03 < zyp> and then you put together the layers you need
2020-10-07T12:11:38 < zyp> so I figure typically there's some layers from openembedded core, some layers from yocto, something from the chip vendor and maybe board vendor
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2020-10-07T12:28:35 < zyp> I wonder where this shit is fetching from shit's slow as fuck
2020-10-07T12:29:13 < zyp> there's two fetches running, together it looks like they average <1MB/s
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2020-10-07T12:32:57 < karlp> yeah, making sure you have a stable cached download dir is pretty damn ahndy for soem of these trees
2020-10-07T12:44:21 < zyp> yeah, I assume it'll cache both downloads and builds
2020-10-07T12:44:42 < zyp> which is another reason I'm starting out building the default
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2020-10-07T12:46:20 < zyp> if this progress percentage is gonna keep going at the same rate, this is gonna take five hours
2020-10-07T12:48:02 < zyp> but I hope it's gonna speed up once it gets past big tasks like the toolchain and whatever
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2020-10-07T13:28:27 < qyx> so is yocto less hassle?
2020-10-07T13:30:30 < zyp> than what? buildroot?
2020-10-07T13:31:27 < zyp> I haven't tried buildroot, but my impression is that that's what I would have tried first if I were doing something and starting from scratch
2020-10-07T13:32:14 < zyp> but when the client suggests yocto, I'm not gonna suggest some other tool instead that I've got no experience with
2020-10-07T13:40:18 < karlp> oh totally, definitely start with their own build system :)
2020-10-07T13:40:51 < jpa-> i think you should make your own build system, preferrably with makefiles, autotools and perl
2020-10-07T13:48:46 < zyp> I think not
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2020-10-07T14:52:18 < zyp> wtf, now it's building nodejs
2020-10-07T14:52:36 < karlp> yeah baby
2020-10-07T14:52:46 < karlp> for the host or the target?
2020-10-07T14:52:53 < zyp> idk
2020-10-07T14:52:59 < karlp> I've seen stupid shit build node from source so it can run some js preprocessing tools
2020-10-07T14:53:03 < zyp> 0: nodejs-8.12.0-r0 do_compile - 250s (pid 19243)
2020-10-07T14:53:36 < zyp> apparently it's building gcc as well, this late I assume it's for the target, which is good
2020-10-07T14:54:17 < zyp> during testing I wanna be able to build locally to avoid moving shit back and forth
2020-10-07T14:55:18 < karlp> is the target big enough for that?
2020-10-07T14:55:23 < karlp> this is your android side gig, so I guess?
2020-10-07T14:56:50 < zyp> not android, haven't done android since I worked at STE seven years ago
2020-10-07T14:58:01 < zyp> and yeah, idk how fast that'll go, target's an imx7 SoM with 1GB RAM, so not overly impressive
2020-10-07T15:00:00 < zyp> devboard is currently sitting on my desk next to rk3399 SoM -- the latter has both heatsink and fan, imx7 has neither :p
2020-10-07T15:04:04 < karlp> waiting on some pricing on an ls1012a board I'm hoping to use, would be a  nice step up in perf...
2020-10-07T15:05:20 < karlp> only single core though
2020-10-07T15:05:33 < zyp> https://www.tq-group.com/en/products/tq-embedded/qoriq-layerscape/tqmls1012al/ <- this thing?
2020-10-07T15:07:03 < karlp> same cpu, but not that board no.
2020-10-07T15:08:27 < zyp> interesting part
2020-10-07T15:09:06 < zyp> single core but a bunch of fast IO
2020-10-07T15:09:21 < karlp> yeah, control plane shits 
2020-10-07T15:18:31 < mawk> my embedded stuff teacher was a buildroot dev, so obviously we had tons of buildroot classes
2020-10-07T15:19:08 < mawk> same with the CS teacher he was the guy that wrote one of the autotools executables, so we had autotools classes
2020-10-07T15:19:55 < BrainDamage> did he agree that autotools suck?
2020-10-07T15:20:16 < mawk> lol
2020-10-07T15:20:20 < mawk> I hope
2020-10-07T15:20:32 < mawk> he wrote it a long time ago, maybe he's at peace with it now
2020-10-07T15:21:01 < dongs> lool
2020-10-07T15:25:21 < karlp> fuck autohell
2020-10-07T15:33:12 < zyp> okay, completed in three and a half hours or so
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2020-10-07T16:13:04 < Steffanx> Welcome
2020-10-07T16:24:05 -!- fenugrec [~fenugrec@97.107.220.18] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds]
2020-10-07T16:45:03 < englishman> torquing group lives on??
2020-10-07T16:45:22 < Steffanx> Yes sir
2020-10-07T16:45:33 < Steffanx> Isnt Ivan back
2020-10-07T16:46:39 < Steffanx> Ohno he was back at the ncc group whatever that was
2020-10-07T16:48:11 < englishman> referring to this https://www.tq-group.com/en/products/tq-embedded/qoriq-layerscape/tqmls1012al/
2020-10-07T16:49:14 < englishman> better not be more than $30
2020-10-07T16:49:59 < englishman> uh
2020-10-07T16:50:07 < englishman> arm and x86?
2020-10-07T16:50:13 < englishman> is that page auto-generated
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2020-10-07T17:03:42 < dongs> LS1012A is some networking SoC
2020-10-07T17:03:57 < dongs> originally mindspeed (i think?) then sold to nxp
2020-10-07T17:04:02 < dongs> i think mindspeed bought them from someone too
2020-10-07T17:04:30 < dongs> where you see x86
2020-10-07T17:04:35 < aandrew> I've got a contract using LS1012A
2020-10-07T17:04:48 < dongs> oh, Our USPs
2020-10-07T17:04:53 < dongs> i dont think thats specifically referring to that module
2020-10-07T17:05:18 < aandrew> it's quadcore arm64 and has fancy fast datapath shit
2020-10-07T17:05:33 < aandrew> yep mindspeed sounds familiar
2020-10-07T17:05:55 < aandrew> the flexbuilder build system it uses is one of those highly polished turds you find everywhere in embedded
2020-10-07T17:06:18 < aandrew> looks great until you actually start to *use* it, then you find out the interface the make you use is just a think veneer over a bunch of shit scripting
2020-10-07T17:06:18 < karlp> 1012a is the single core one, but there's bigger ls10xx stuff with more cores.
2020-10-07T17:06:43 < dongs> congrats youve just described all the NXP shit
2020-10-07T17:06:48 < dongs> like the mcuxpresso cancer
2020-10-07T17:06:54 < dongs> thats a bunch of shit bolted on top of eclipse
2020-10-07T17:07:20 < dongs> for some reason they have a mcuxpresso BUILDER which is eclipse clone JUST to make SDK packages (?) or something for their shit
2020-10-07T17:07:31 < dongs> and then there's mcuxprsso IDE which is another eclipse copy for actual coding
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2020-10-07T17:18:25 < Cracki> how do you deal with nxp then, any editor, makefile, ozone?
2020-10-07T17:19:23 < Cracki> why do they bother with that nonsense. they could just throw some money at ARM itself to make a decent stack/IDE instead of NIH
2020-10-07T17:20:23 < qyx> nvidia you mean?
2020-10-07T17:20:40 < dongs> well, i just dont bother with nxp. i got thier imxrt devboard to fuck with but never got past the mcucancerbuilder
2020-10-07T17:20:44 < dongs> for now anyway :p
2020-10-07T17:20:50 < dongs> their LPC shit is a fucking mess too
2020-10-07T17:23:40 < Cracki> got to play with kinetis once. not sure if that was mcuxpresso or "design studio" or if that's actually identical since freescale is nxp. it was eclipse-based too and took ages to build shit
2020-10-07T17:25:17 < dongs> kinetis was (and still is) super cancer
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2020-10-07T17:26:10 < zyp> docker cp is fucking retarded
2020-10-07T17:26:37 < Cracki> docker is wearing a straitjacket for fun
2020-10-07T17:26:55 < zyp> docker cp blah - | gunzip fails because it's interleaving status output bullshit on STDOUT
2020-10-07T17:26:59 < Cracki> people who love docker also love internet of shit cock cages
2020-10-07T17:27:07 < Cracki> lol
2020-10-07T17:27:10 < Cracki> hahahahaha srsly
2020-10-07T17:27:18 < Cracki> status belongs on stderr wtf
2020-10-07T17:27:26 < dongs> imagine using docker
2020-10-07T17:27:53 < Cracki> at least "docking" requires foreskin. I think you have to chop yours off to be successful at "docker"
2020-10-07T17:28:25 < BrainDamage> relevant: https://www.bbc.com/news/technology-54436575
2020-10-07T17:28:32 < Cracki> precisely
2020-10-07T17:29:05 < dongs> is that the internet of dongs
2020-10-07T17:29:07 < Cracki> fucking call it "cell mate", what's next, complimentary month in jail with the big boys handing you around
2020-10-07T17:29:30 < Cracki> be a man, get a kitchen knife
2020-10-07T17:33:30 < zyp> dongs, well, containers are great except dumbfuckery like this shit
2020-10-07T17:35:33 < zyp> no need to fuck around with VMs and whatever, need whatever version of something? just spin up a fresh container, no need to worry about leftover state
2020-10-07T17:36:56 < zyp> also no need to worry about leaving a mess, containers being cheap to create also makes them cheap to destroy
2020-10-07T17:39:25 < zyp> oh, wait, according to the docs it's not status output bullshit, it's just wrapping the file in a tar archive (since it can output more than one file)
2020-10-07T17:39:34 < aandrew> ah yes I'm on LS1043A
2020-10-07T17:39:56 < aandrew> I never liked LPC; they're capable processors and good peripherals but I found the documentation just meh. 
2020-10-07T17:40:12 < aandrew> and kinetis isn't bad if you can stay the fuck away from processor expert
2020-10-07T17:40:25 < dongs> oh gawd processor expert
2020-10-07T17:40:37 < dongs> almost as bad as TI's crap composter studio for MSP420
2020-10-07T17:40:45 < aandrew> I just don't understand why everyone wants to build lego block embedded build systems, it's fucking awful
2020-10-07T17:41:20 < aandrew> yep decomposer studio
2020-10-07T17:43:17 < karlp> it's just part of the effort to try and use cheaper devs, nothign new.
2020-10-07T17:43:39 < dongs> one of my  customers uses TI's RF+cortex thing
2020-10-07T17:43:43 < dongs> CC1130 or wahtever something like that
2020-10-07T17:43:55 < dongs> despite me telling them chink rf + any other mcu is 100x better
2020-10-07T17:44:03 < dongs> but iwas at thier office and watched them compile shit
2020-10-07T17:44:08 < dongs> in crap composter
2020-10-07T17:44:17 < dongs> its like 2 minutes from click build until it shits out a hex
2020-10-07T17:44:28 < dongs> and this is some simple shit with maybe like 10-20 source files at most
2020-10-07T17:44:34 < dongs> it opens a bunch of cmd windows and shit
2020-10-07T17:44:37 < dongs> fucking absolutely disgusting
2020-10-07T17:45:05 < zyp> it does?
2020-10-07T17:45:21 < dongs> yeah i saw shit pop out while it was building in eclipse blogs 
2020-10-07T17:45:26 < zyp> shit's awful, but I don't remember it doing that
2020-10-07T17:45:29 < dongs> maybe pre- or -post build job
2020-10-07T17:45:40 < zyp> then again, not same arch
2020-10-07T17:47:58 < mawk> lol composter studio
2020-10-07T17:48:39 < dongs> < Cracki> why do they bother with that nonsense. they could just throw some money at ARM itself
2020-10-07T17:48:45 < dongs> KEIL pack shit is fucking trash too
2020-10-07T17:48:58 < dongs> still cancer
2020-10-07T17:48:58 < aandrew> SoC really only makes sense if you're going after power savings or size
2020-10-07T17:48:59 < Cracki> throw moar money at it
2020-10-07T17:50:18 < zyp> hmm, couldn't get tar to pull out the file inline, so I ended up just doing docker exec cat
2020-10-07T17:51:28 < Cracki> exec, eval, goto, there's a reason those stay popular
2020-10-07T17:51:39 < Cracki> also peek and poke :D
2020-10-07T17:55:35 < zyp> okay, nice, the image I built booted and works
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2020-10-07T18:10:31 < t4nk_freenode> zyp, made any progress with the fpga stuff?
2020-10-07T18:11:33 < zyp> what stuff in particular?
2020-10-07T18:11:54 < t4nk_freenode> mmmmmmmmmm, let me think here... ;)
2020-10-07T18:12:02 < zyp> I received an ulx3s the other day, but I haven't had time to test it yet
2020-10-07T18:12:04 < t4nk_freenode> you were thinking af building......
2020-10-07T18:12:21 < t4nk_freenode> not a LA, but sth along the lines
2020-10-07T18:13:44 < t4nk_freenode> mm can't remember what it was exactly, but it was in order to measure
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2020-10-07T18:14:45 < t4nk_freenode> ah, now I remember... usb3-analyzer!
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2020-10-07T18:18:24 < zyp> got too much other stuff to do
2020-10-07T18:19:00 < t4nk_freenode> ehehe, I got more on my plate than I can handle myself
2020-10-07T18:19:07 < zyp> paid stuff takes priority over unpaid stuff :p
2020-10-07T18:19:58 < t4nk_freenode> that colorlight has been gathering dust, it's way way down the list atm
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2020-10-07T18:46:01 < Steffanx> Whoa look whos alive
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2020-10-07T18:51:14 < t4nk_freenode> get off my lawn, you Steffanx *shaking fist in anger*
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2020-10-07T18:52:41 < Steffanx> Back from COVID-19 holidays?
2020-10-07T18:53:02 < t4nk_freenode> mweh, I've been lurking all the time though :)
2020-10-07T18:53:27 < t4nk_freenode> waiting for that year to pass
2020-10-07T18:53:37 < Steffanx> Aha.
2020-10-07T18:53:44 < t4nk_freenode> so I can prove I euhhh... 
2020-10-07T18:53:56 < t4nk_freenode> well.. can't really remember 
2020-10-07T18:54:21 < Steffanx> Will you be alright?
2020-10-07T18:54:36 < t4nk_freenode> in the end? NO
2020-10-07T18:55:19 < Steffanx> Sounds all fucked up
2020-10-07T18:55:22 < t4nk_freenode> Steffanx, do you ever use a saw?
2020-10-07T18:55:38 < Steffanx> What kind of saw?
2020-10-07T18:55:44 < t4nk_freenode> and try to make straight cuts and stuff
2020-10-07T18:55:49 < dongs> a saw filter
2020-10-07T18:55:50 < t4nk_freenode> hand saw that is
2020-10-07T18:55:52 < Steffanx> Sure
2020-10-07T18:56:05 < Mangy_Dog> Ok pretty sure im doing something wrong here this isnt a sloeber issue........ (i hope) https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/695271473308237985/763428810980065332/unknown.png  So i have those static pointers pointing to an array address. This makes for an easy to edit setting page. And I can use the human readable pointers to pass on the data in palces like the led_handling.h file . Im suing 
2020-10-07T18:56:05 < Mangy_Dog> the same static setup as I am for my buttons (bottom right) but im getting the error for using static. Taking static away works but. These are just pointers? What am i doing wrong?
2020-10-07T18:56:41 < dongs> good grief what a disgusting font and colorscheme
2020-10-07T18:56:56 < dongs> is that a fucking not fixed-width font used to write code?!
2020-10-07T18:57:19 < t4nk_freenode> hehe
2020-10-07T18:57:48 < Steffanx> It can be the same Mangy_Dog 
2020-10-07T18:57:52 < Steffanx> Cant*
2020-10-07T18:57:57 < mawk> settings is not static Mangy_Dog 
2020-10-07T18:58:03 < dongs> if you're using a &.... you need to do &settings[1] etc i think
2020-10-07T18:58:08 < mawk> you're initializing static references with non static data
2020-10-07T18:58:09 < dongs> oh and that  too
2020-10-07T18:58:23 < mawk> by the way write uint8_t& foo = bar; please
2020-10-07T18:58:27 < mawk> otherwise it looks like address-of operator
2020-10-07T18:58:46 < dongs> this guy *indents case brackets*
2020-10-07T18:58:50 < mawk> lol
2020-10-07T18:58:50 < dongs> ok page closed, i cant take mroe of this shit
2020-10-07T18:58:56 < dongs> or im gonna fucking break my monitors
2020-10-07T18:58:57 < Cracki> he might not know the diff between refs and pointers
2020-10-07T18:59:00 < Cracki> he just puts & there
2020-10-07T18:59:23 < Cracki> int foo; int &bar = foo; bar = 10; foo == 10
2020-10-07T18:59:24 < Mangy_Dog> actually tbh..... i do get pointers mixed up
2020-10-07T18:59:33 < Cracki> int foo; int *bar = &foo; (*bar) = 10; foo == 10
2020-10-07T18:59:40 < mawk> a reference is like a pointer on which you always prepend *
2020-10-07T18:59:45 < mawk> if you get pointers, you get references
2020-10-07T18:59:49 < mawk> get = understand
2020-10-07T18:59:52 < karlp> hardly
2020-10-07T18:59:59 < karlp> I understand pointers, have no idea how refs work
2020-10-07T19:00:03 < Cracki> the point isn't their commonalities but how they differ
2020-10-07T19:00:05 < dongs> refs is some C++ wank
2020-10-07T19:00:23 < BrainDamage> karlp: a reference is like a symbolic link
2020-10-07T19:00:25 < Cracki> Mangy_Dog, just look at my foo/bar examples. that should illustrate
2020-10-07T19:00:47 < mawk> a reference is a pointer that is always dereferenced; like if you have int& foo = bar; somewhere, and you use the name "foo" in some places, it's exactly like if you had int *foo = &bar; somewhere and used the name "*foo" instead
2020-10-07T19:01:08 < mawk> so references are strictly less expressive than pointers
2020-10-07T19:01:11 < mawk> and should die
2020-10-07T19:01:27 < Mangy_Dog> hmm ok
2020-10-07T19:01:40 < t4nk_freenode> nehow, Steffanx, I'm currently going loopy because I have never managed a straight cut in my life *sigh* .. now I want to make some kind of jig to guide a hand saw
2020-10-07T19:01:48 < Cracki> also why do you even say static there
2020-10-07T19:01:52 < Mangy_Dog> the goal is not to copy the data and take more ram. but just read the value passing it in that human readable way
2020-10-07T19:01:56 < BrainDamage> mawk: they are useful to mean that you're passing data without copy on the stack
2020-10-07T19:02:02 < Cracki> then use references
2020-10-07T19:02:03 < dongs> why are you even using C++ there
2020-10-07T19:02:07 < Cracki> and remove the static
2020-10-07T19:02:11 < Cracki> I don't know what that does there
2020-10-07T19:02:12 < Mangy_Dog> ok
2020-10-07T19:02:37 < dongs> anyway, just do uint8_t settings[14] or whatever; then uint8_t *Settings_Dongs = &settings[7];
2020-10-07T19:02:41 < karlp> so. does mangy _know_ they're using refs, and did they mean to use a ref...
2020-10-07T19:02:46 < Mangy_Dog> i felt at the address is never changing static was correct.... like it is in buttons
2020-10-07T19:02:55 < steverrrr> references are good because they can't dangle
2020-10-07T19:02:59 < mawk> static means it's independant of instances Mangy_Dog 
2020-10-07T19:02:59 < Cracki> you mean const and no
2020-10-07T19:03:10 < Cracki> static doesn't mean "doesn't change"
2020-10-07T19:03:14 < mawk> a static variable in the class could as well be outside the class (if it weren't for private/protected stuff)
2020-10-07T19:03:31 < BrainDamage> references can dangle, but you need to fuck them up explicitly
2020-10-07T19:03:38 < Mangy_Dog> ok
2020-10-07T19:03:53 < Cracki> it means a few things related to where/when memory is allocated, who can see it, if a function or variable is "visible" outside of the module etc
2020-10-07T19:03:54 < BrainDamage> &hello = 1; now hello is dangling
2020-10-07T19:04:19 < Cracki> in what context can you write "&hello = 1"
2020-10-07T19:04:27 < steverrrr> hmm didn't think you could do that.   checks now
2020-10-07T19:04:33 < Cracki> are you sure you meant to use & there
2020-10-07T19:04:51 < Mangy_Dog> im really not sure
2020-10-07T19:05:03 < Cracki> how about we throw cppreference at him instead of confusing him with all this syntax that likely is used wrongly half the time
2020-10-07T19:05:11 < Mangy_Dog> its really just meant to be a simple passthrough to an array
2020-10-07T19:05:15 < Mangy_Dog> without taking memory
2020-10-07T19:05:24 < mawk> then just make it const or something
2020-10-07T19:05:28 < Cracki> remove static, keep things as in the screenshot
2020-10-07T19:05:30 < mawk> and the optimizer will make it not take memory
2020-10-07T19:05:44 < Cracki> const if you use pointers, otherwise don't
2020-10-07T19:05:51 < Cracki> also const won't spare you from spending the memory for it
2020-10-07T19:05:58 < Cracki> even a const pointer requires memory
2020-10-07T19:06:06 < mawk> that depends what you do with it
2020-10-07T19:06:09 < Cracki> just use references if you're worried about memory consumption
2020-10-07T19:06:13 < Cracki> it doesn't
2020-10-07T19:06:19 < mawk> if you pass it around the optimizer will have to allocate your pointer somewhere
2020-10-07T19:06:19 < Cracki> even if something is const, you can take & of it
2020-10-07T19:06:24 < mawk> yes
2020-10-07T19:06:25 < Cracki> its value HAS to be in ram
2020-10-07T19:06:27 < mawk> that's what I mean
2020-10-07T19:06:36 < mawk> as long as you don't take its address, the memory can be optimized away
2020-10-07T19:06:43 < Cracki> the compiler _might_ be smart enough to optimize but don't bet on it
2020-10-07T19:06:52 < Cracki> references aren't like that
2020-10-07T19:06:53 < mawk> well it's a standard optimization, at least in gcc
2020-10-07T19:06:55 < Cracki> only pointers
2020-10-07T19:08:46 < jpa-> Cracki: const stuff is usually in flash, you can have pointers to flash
2020-10-07T19:09:08 < Cracki> this is a class, he'll make an instance of it (or maybe not, this is all guesswork)
2020-10-07T19:09:24 < jpa-> and if you have const pointer to const, or a constexpr instance, that usually goes to flash also
2020-10-07T19:09:33 < jpa-> (static constexpr instance, that is)
2020-10-07T19:10:04 < steverrrr> BrainDamage that doesnt make sense.  This is an example of a dangling reference, which nobody would ever do https://riptutorial.com/cplusplus/example/17029/accessing-a-dangling-reference
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2020-10-07T19:12:24 < steverrrr> or i suppose you could free a malloc'd object and then a refernce to it would be dangling.  Haven't seen that.  trying to use more references actually
2020-10-07T19:12:25 < BrainDamage> I just tried to delete a reference, the program segfaults on it, but the compiler lets you
2020-10-07T19:12:38 < steverrrr> heh
2020-10-07T19:13:55 < steverrrr> but again I've never seen that.  Probably if I was using smart pointers that scenario wouldn't occur.  another thing I need to use more
2020-10-07T19:13:56 < Cracki> in what context is "&hello = 1" even valid? you can't assign constants to the address of anything, and you can't initialize a reference from a literal
2020-10-07T19:15:05 < Cracki> ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
2020-10-07T19:15:37 < Mangy_Dog> well like i say references and pointers confuse me sometimes
2020-10-07T19:16:15 < Mangy_Dog> though new issue..... D:
2020-10-07T19:16:32 < Mangy_Dog> the idea i was having where it was easy to just change the values int he array like a setting list isnt working
2020-10-07T19:16:33 < BrainDamage> Cracki: I meant to change the address of an existing reference, but I misremembered the & operator behaviour in c++
2020-10-07T19:16:55 < Cracki> is that possible in other languagess
2020-10-07T19:17:00 < Mangy_Dog> "assigning to an array from an initializer list"
2020-10-07T19:17:37 < Cracki> time to discover std::vector or array or whatever they have
2020-10-07T19:17:44 < Cracki> (std::array)
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2020-10-07T19:18:05 < steverrrr> Mangy_Dog check compiler std?  older standards dont let you do that
2020-10-07T19:18:07 < Mangy_Dog> tried including array, that alone broke the compile with errors that i couldnt trace
2020-10-07T19:18:34 < Cracki> best you can do with an initializer list is initialize the array, but after that you'd have to assign elements or memcpy... or use std::something which has richer behavior
2020-10-07T19:18:40 < Cracki> or make a struct of it
2020-10-07T19:18:43 < Cracki> structs can be assigned
2020-10-07T19:18:58 < Mangy_Dog> hmm
2020-10-07T19:19:05 < steverrrr> actually I've raged at arduino ide for not letting me initialize structs with initializer list
2020-10-07T19:19:06 < Cracki> struct or union. if you need you can union a dumb array on top of a struct
2020-10-07T19:19:31 < Cracki> wat it's g++ it shouldn't forbid you that
2020-10-07T19:19:48 < Cracki> it's c++ it may not have the same syntax as C
2020-10-07T19:20:03 < Cracki> things change over time
2020-10-07T19:20:06 < Mangy_Dog> arm-none-eabi-g++
2020-10-07T19:20:07 < steverrrr> wait, no I think I'm thinking of the .field = value syntax, ie. named field
2020-10-07T19:20:12 < Cracki> yes that
2020-10-07T19:20:15 < steverrrr> ie. order doesn't matter
2020-10-07T19:20:27 < Cracki> c++ is growing this or something similar in a recent/upcoming std
2020-10-07T19:20:36 < Cracki> not sure if they relax order with that
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2020-10-07T19:21:47 < BrainDamage> steverrrr:  this is unfortunately valid c++, and it crashes at runtime when you delete the reference: http://codepad.org/2OOAbYY2 which ofc is a dumb thing to do, but still possible, despite being kinda defeating the point of references
2020-10-07T19:23:04 < Cracki> is delete &localvar supposed to work?
2020-10-07T19:23:30 < Cracki> that's not on the heap
2020-10-07T19:23:50 < Cracki> that's just a pointer but it must be a pointer to heap
2020-10-07T19:24:21 < steverrrr> yeah it's the delete that fails
2020-10-07T19:24:23 < PaulFertser> And you're not supposed to need new/delete with modern C++. RAII, make_unique/shared etc.
2020-10-07T19:24:33 < Cracki> references behave like local variables. they share the memory of the thing they're referring to. they're otherwise indistinguishable
2020-10-07T19:24:56 < Cracki> (except maybe with some fancy type introspection w/e)
2020-10-07T19:25:05 < steverrrr> but anyway we agree on that it is possible to delete a reference to dynamic memory, which would create a dangling reference.  and also that nobody would eever do that
2020-10-07T19:25:26 < Cracki> only example i've seen is returning a reference to a local variable
2020-10-07T19:25:31 < Cracki> which _could_ be caught by the compiler
2020-10-07T19:26:02 < Mangy_Dog> fek it, just gonna use the references to set the value for now...
2020-10-07T19:26:07 < Mangy_Dog> might change it later
2020-10-07T19:26:09 < Mangy_Dog> not sure
2020-10-07T19:26:24 < Mangy_Dog> but for now at least it works and i can get on with the next task
2020-10-07T19:27:53 < BrainDamage> and in completely unrelated thing, a program written in 11k lines of bash, I am in awe https://github.com/xwmx/nb
2020-10-07T19:28:33 < Cracki> I intentionally don't put C++ in my resume. C++ attracts people who like to get lost in mazes of their own creation
2020-10-07T19:28:42 < Cracki> goes for bash too :>
2020-10-07T19:29:03 < Cracki> data structures in bash lol
2020-10-07T19:29:14 < Cracki> >knowledge base application
2020-10-07T19:29:46 < steverrrr> If I could put "C+" on my resume and people would get it, that'd be cool
2020-10-07T19:29:58 < Cracki> I dun geddit
2020-10-07T19:30:04 < Cracki> grade?
2020-10-07T19:30:16 < Cracki> average of C and C++
2020-10-07T19:30:24 < steverrrr> I forgot who coined that term but it's kind of like Bjarne's original name for it, "C with classes"
2020-10-07T19:30:43 < mawk> I left php out of my resume
2020-10-07T19:30:47 < mawk> but company found out anyway
2020-10-07T19:30:57 < mawk> and I spent nightmarish months fixing the php app
2020-10-07T19:30:58 < Cracki> >_> I put it in, maybe shouldn't, but meh
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2020-10-07T19:32:50 < Cracki> putting shell scripts in a "bin" directory. writing line noise could certainly be considered binary, as opposed to asskey
2020-10-07T19:34:29 < Cracki> fuck I thought it was 11 kloc over several files, not 100 kloc in ONE file!
2020-10-07T19:34:35 < Cracki> *11
2020-10-07T19:34:50 < BrainDamage> yep, it's pretty amazing
2020-10-07T19:35:13 < BrainDamage> like watching a beached whale
2020-10-07T19:35:29 < Cracki> this is the work of an autistic teenager
2020-10-07T19:35:41 < Cracki> nobody would have the time and inclination
2020-10-07T19:36:21 < Cracki> actually rather tidily formatted. I expected some real neckbeardery.
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2020-10-07T19:38:54 < mawk> I tried implementing what I computed for the least square fitting of degree n polynomial
2020-10-07T19:38:57 < mawk> it works great
2020-10-07T19:39:03 < mawk> the algo can even tell when a lesser degree fit would work better
2020-10-07T19:39:21  * Cracki runs away like you just started a vacuum
2020-10-07T19:39:26 < mawk> lol
2020-10-07T19:39:48 < mawk> https://serveur.io/kickx.html
2020-10-07T19:40:03 < Cracki> aaah the link pulls my mouse pointer
2020-10-07T19:40:18 < mawk> lol
2020-10-07T19:40:48 < BrainDamage> [Math Processing Error]
2020-10-07T19:41:10 < Cracki> there's some mathjax I guess
2020-10-07T19:41:46 < mawk> enable js BrainDamage 
2020-10-07T19:41:50 < mawk> yes it's pretty formula
2020-10-07T19:42:02 < mawk> but if you don' want to read them you don't need js
2020-10-07T19:42:07 < Cracki> view source, 13378 lines
2020-10-07T19:42:09 < mawk> it's all html and embedded images as base64 and stuff
2020-10-07T19:42:12 < mawk> lol
2020-10-07T19:42:15 < mawk> yeah that's the embedded image I thinj
2020-10-07T19:42:23 < mawk> so the html is self contained
2020-10-07T19:42:31 < Cracki> the embedded base64 encoded png is _one_ line
2020-10-07T19:42:39 < Cracki> and not a very long one either
2020-10-07T19:42:42 < mawk> ah I wonder what the rest is
2020-10-07T19:42:47 < Cracki> most of it is css
2020-10-07T19:42:47 < mawk> what
2020-10-07T19:42:52 < mawk> it's the whole of twitter's bootstrap
2020-10-07T19:42:55 < mawk> why
2020-10-07T19:43:03 < Cracki> oh em gee
2020-10-07T19:43:08 < mawk> at least it's pretty like that
2020-10-07T19:44:16 < Cracki> it is
2020-10-07T19:47:10 < mawk> see qyx 
2020-10-07T19:47:13 < mawk> that's how the magic happens
2020-10-07T19:47:17 < mawk> with matrices, as always
2020-10-07T19:47:25 < mawk> all the best things in the world involves matrices
2020-10-07T19:47:36 < mawk> except the movie
2020-10-07T19:48:50 < mawk> if you replaced the data points at the start with symbolic variables you could get a closed formula as output you can put a µc or something
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2020-10-07T20:12:31 < mawk> actually I'm stupid
2020-10-07T20:12:48 < mawk> for just 3 points, the least square quadratic is *exactly* the interpolator quadratic
2020-10-07T20:13:01 < mawk> so the formula can be reduced to be much easier
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2020-10-07T20:14:05 < mawk> sum of y_i L_i(x) with L_i(x) = (x-x1)(x-x_{i-1})(x-x_{i+1})(x-xn)/(xi-x1)(xi-x_{i-1})(xi-x_{i+1})(xi-xn)
2020-10-07T20:14:13 < mawk> and that's all
2020-10-07T20:14:43 < mawk> that's why R² was so low, "10^-30 that's a pretty good fit" indeed
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2020-10-07T20:50:45 < Steffanx> Damn, youre stupid mawk
2020-10-07T20:51:00 < karlp> well, progress.  usb hub now at least is ~detected, but can't enable itself.
2020-10-07T20:51:24 < karlp> https://paste.jvnv.net/view/CQdaG
2020-10-07T20:51:32 < karlp> prior build din't even do that.
2020-10-07T20:56:42 < fenugrec> karlp, have you tried turning off the computer then on again ? heh
2020-10-07T20:56:56 < fenugrec> can't believe you're rolling your own hub
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2020-10-07T21:08:22 < mawk> in 6 years I never took twice my medication dose by accident, it's a miracle
2020-10-07T21:08:23 < mawk> I think if one day I do it I have to go to hospital take the antidote
2020-10-07T21:08:56 < mawk> I think it's maybe that day, memory is confused
2020-10-07T21:09:55 < Steffanx> I know why it is
2020-10-07T21:10:11 < mawk> lol
2020-10-07T21:10:13 < mawk> why
2020-10-07T21:10:15 < Steffanx> Its also the reason why your rational brain stopped functioning properly 
2020-10-07T21:10:21 < mawk> lol
2020-10-07T21:12:08 < mawk> my respiratory rate and heart rate will go down, my extremities and lips will become cyanosed
2020-10-07T21:12:20 < mawk> good thing I'm not alone in the street right now
2020-10-07T21:12:23 < boddax> tough case
2020-10-07T21:12:50 < mawk> just a coffee and I will be fine
2020-10-07T21:14:19 < mawk> if I don't take it I wish I'd die, and if I take too much I die
2020-10-07T21:14:24 < mawk> it's sensitive
2020-10-07T21:14:32 < boddax> more than coofe you need coffeen
2020-10-07T21:16:00 < Cracki> coofein for the coof
2020-10-07T21:20:06 < boddax> still alive? ping mawk
2020-10-07T21:20:38 < Steffanx> So dont take it then
2020-10-07T21:22:08 < boddax> too late
2020-10-07T21:26:42 < mawk> of course I'm alive
2020-10-07T21:26:50 < mawk> it's not that fast to act
2020-10-07T21:26:57 < mawk> too late Steffanx 
2020-10-07T21:27:20 < mawk> but I think I'm resistant enough
2020-10-07T21:27:35 < mawk> I'm still alive today, probably thanks to fast metabolism
2020-10-07T21:28:25 < mawk> drug don't get to act very long in my body
2020-10-07T21:28:48 < mawk> my little rottweiler enzymes take care of them
2020-10-07T21:28:49 < BrainDamage> except for drugs that are activated through metabolism
2020-10-07T21:28:59 < mawk> well they all kinda are
2020-10-07T21:29:19 < mawk> unless you mean drugs which don't break down further to inactive compounds?
2020-10-07T21:29:28 < mawk> then yeah, but that's not the case with opiates
2020-10-07T21:29:49 < mawk> opioids opiates at least
2020-10-07T21:30:05 < BrainDamage> yes, drugs that get metabolized into active compounds, but then only get excreted or liverified
2020-10-07T21:30:56 < BrainDamage> out of curiosity, what's the psychological profile of methadone vs heroin, or whatever opioid you were taking
2020-10-07T21:31:01 < BrainDamage> do you get any?
2020-10-07T21:31:16 < mawk> methadone half-life is 30h
2020-10-07T21:31:18 < boddax> meaning cirrhosis
2020-10-07T21:31:32 < mawk> but it acted too fast on me and I had to take twice a day at first
2020-10-07T21:31:47 < mawk> nothing BrainDamage 
2020-10-07T21:31:56 < mawk> I only notice it when I forgot to take it
2020-10-07T21:32:04 < mawk> but it's thanks to the long half-life also
2020-10-07T21:32:26 < mawk> levels of drugs in circulation don't really fluctuate
2020-10-07T21:32:38 < mawk> so there's never a rush or a come down
2020-10-07T21:33:13 < mawk> subutex isn't like that, but easier to abuse so I take methadone instead
2020-10-07T21:33:42 < boddax> maybe us good idea mawk you go H for enema
2020-10-07T21:35:14 < mawk> lol
2020-10-07T21:35:18 < mawk> no enema for me
2020-10-07T21:35:29 < mawk> antidote is just naloxone through nose
2020-10-07T21:35:32 < mawk> very easy
2020-10-07T21:36:39 < BrainDamage> enema reminds me of this one https://i.redd.it/k94afxuxxgx21.jpg
2020-10-07T21:37:32 < boddax> nalozone cantain steroids not good
2020-10-07T21:37:37 < mawk> lol
2020-10-07T21:37:40 < Cracki> reddit moment
2020-10-07T21:37:40 < mawk> no boddax 
2020-10-07T21:37:46 < mawk> naloxone is a chemical
2020-10-07T21:37:49 < mawk> not a brand
2020-10-07T21:38:14 < mawk> it's an opiate receptor antagonist
2020-10-07T21:38:17 < mawk> afaik
2020-10-07T21:38:20 < mawk> and that's all
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2020-10-07T21:39:48 < boddax> then your safe no need to send flowers this time
2020-10-07T21:40:08 < Steffanx> is that even possible?
2020-10-07T21:40:45 < BrainDamage> sending flowers online? yes
2020-10-07T21:41:21 < boddax> plastic flowers for reuse
2020-10-07T21:41:56 < Steffanx> no that what you posted before
2020-10-07T21:42:25 < Steffanx> Giving yourself autobrewery syndrome
2020-10-07T21:42:55 < BrainDamage> autobrewery syndrome is a thing, and the symptoms are legit, not sure if brewer's yeast would be the one involved
2020-10-07T21:43:00 < Cracki> it's a legit medical condition. not sure if this is usually happening in the stomach or further along
2020-10-07T21:43:27 < Cracki> some yeast is definitely involved and it's probably close to "brewer's" yeast
2020-10-07T21:44:26 < BrainDamage> further along is probably easier, no acidic environment and the sugars are already broken down partially from the digestive system
2020-10-07T21:44:54 < BrainDamage> so they can eat plain glucose instead of the complex carbohydrate chains
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2020-10-07T21:45:26 < BrainDamage> which would mean efficient conversion, a little yeast would be able to make a lot of ethanol
2020-10-07T21:45:36 < Cracki> Laurenceb, say something about https://i.redd.it/k94afxuxxgx21.jpg
2020-10-07T21:45:59 < BrainDamage> and since the ethanol would leak through the intestinal walls, the levels would never increase in the gut flora
2020-10-07T21:46:00 < Cracki> and it's quickly absorbed into bloodstream too
2020-10-07T21:46:18 < boddax> if exist spontaneous human combustion anything is possible
2020-10-07T21:46:33 < BrainDamage> normally fermenting is self regulated by the ethanol inhibiting further yeast growth from the toxicity
2020-10-07T21:46:34 < Cracki> there was some insanity about soaking tampons and gummy bears in vodka and shoving them up there...
2020-10-07T21:46:56 < Cracki> just for the absorption
2020-10-07T21:47:13 < BrainDamage> but if it leaks into the bloodstream, then the concentration remains pretty low, and theyy are free to prosper
2020-10-07T21:47:14 < Cracki> like wtf people must really like their alcohol
2020-10-07T21:47:39 < BrainDamage> that sounds like the recipe for a disaster, when you overdose ethanol you puke
2020-10-07T21:47:58 < Cracki> shocking https://abcnews.go.com/Health/shocking-ways-kids-drunk/story?id=17281602#:~:text=quicklist%3A%201%20title%3A%20Vodka%20Tampon,It's%20known%20as%20%22slimming.%22
2020-10-07T21:47:58 < BrainDamage> if you overdose from an enema, you'd just pass out, keep absorbing and die
2020-10-07T21:48:24 < Cracki> of course snopes is lying again
2020-10-07T21:50:35 < BrainDamage> and since we're on weird medical shit
2020-10-07T21:50:37 < BrainDamage> https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/22925440
2020-10-07T21:50:42 < BrainDamage> this takes the cake
2020-10-07T21:53:03 < mawk> EtOH enema is the most stupid thing
2020-10-07T21:53:15 < mawk> only beaten in stupidity by IV
2020-10-07T21:53:40 < mawk> then your veins hurt like hell for the rest of your life
2020-10-07T21:53:49 < mawk> fire in your veins, litteraly
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2020-10-07T22:08:34 < Cracki> "rest of your life" short or is this doing something chronic
2020-10-07T22:08:54 < Cracki> I'd imagine you'd dilute the alcohol severely
2020-10-07T22:09:02 < Cracki> or inject very slowly
2020-10-07T22:15:10 < zyp> fucking mawk, you've gotten me hooked on those fucking binary puzzles
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2020-10-07T22:23:37 < Steffanx> fucking mawk, naaah ty
2020-10-07T22:24:03 < mawk> am I not pretty :( ?
2020-10-07T22:24:05 < mawk> lol zyp 
2020-10-07T22:24:21 < mawk> it's chronic pain afterwards yes Cracki 
2020-10-07T22:24:30 < Cracki> yay
2020-10-07T22:24:52 < Cracki> I'll keep that in mind for when I have to perform my next enhanced interrogation
2020-10-07T22:25:07 < Cracki> fucking binary puzzles
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2020-10-07T22:29:29 < kakibitch> hello night posse
2020-10-07T22:34:03 < zyp> mawk, it's fun though
2020-10-07T22:40:51 < kakibitch> how is building the wall zyp?
2020-10-07T22:42:02 < zyp> kakibitch, https://bin.jvnv.net/file/EZ4wj.jpg
2020-10-07T22:42:34 < Steffanx> more like a kakiditch soon?
2020-10-07T22:43:05 < kakibitch> zyp: doesn't look ready
2020-10-07T22:43:14 < kakibitch> weather looks warm
2020-10-07T22:43:26 < zyp> pic is from monday
2020-10-07T22:43:37 < zyp> tuesday and today was rainy
2020-10-07T22:43:50 < zyp> so I've been dicking around with linux project instead
2020-10-07T22:46:20 < kakibitch> yes
2020-10-07T23:08:05 < Steffanx> No musics kakibitch?
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2020-10-07T23:32:54 < laurence_> >While Lord Bracadale, in his review of hate crime legislation, recommended that gender should be added to hate crime law, leading women’s organisations were strongly opposed to this approach. They proposed a standalone offence on misogynistic harassment be developed, which the Scottish Government is committed to in principle
2020-10-07T23:32:58 < laurence_> LOL
2020-10-07T23:33:05 -!- upgrdman [~upgrdman@blender/artist/upgrdman] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds]
2020-10-07T23:33:10 < laurence_> my orbital sides
2020-10-07T23:33:28 < karlp> fenugrec: want per port power switching, also, seemed like a reasonable exercise
2020-10-07T23:33:30 < karlp> (it was not)
2020-10-07T23:33:45 < laurence_> ywns radfems in prison for hate crimes
2020-10-07T23:33:49 < laurence_> shame
2020-10-07T23:35:26 < laurence_> wait wtf did I just read
2020-10-07T23:35:29 < laurence_> https://services.parliament.uk/Bills/2019-21/hatecrimemisogyny.html
2020-10-07T23:35:37 < laurence_> england is not immune
2020-10-07T23:59:40 < laurence_> >radfems arent stupid enough to make sexism a hate crime
2020-10-07T23:59:41 < laurence_> shame
--- Day changed Thu Oct 08 2020
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2020-10-08T00:01:39 < Laurenceb> wew their "paper" has 5 citations
2020-10-08T00:01:45 < Laurenceb> https://www.jstor.org/stable/2379322
2020-10-08T00:01:51 < Steffanx> Laurenceb ....
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2020-10-08T00:07:22 < Laurenceb> >The Counter-Terrorism Division of the CPS told us of the rise in extreme misogynistic hate speech they have encountered, mainly perpetuated by incel terrorist cells.
2020-10-08T00:07:29 < Laurenceb> shit Steffanx they are on to me
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2020-10-08T00:11:38 < Cracki> uh... so "sexism" in general isn't good enough for the misandrists, they want _only_ misogyny to be a crime?
2020-10-08T00:13:06 < Laurenceb> yeah, cuz if sexism was a crime they would be in prison
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2020-10-08T00:32:55 < qyx> I have an interesting issue
2020-10-08T00:33:13 < qyx> when I count DRDY pulses in an EXTI + mark the first one and the last one
2020-10-08T00:33:24 < qyx> the computed DRDY freq varies a lot
2020-10-08T00:33:34 < qyx> ~0.4Hz at 1100Hz
2020-10-08T00:34:39 < qyx> BUT when I start the sensor, check number of samples in the FIFO, mark time, get few thousands of samples, stop, mark time, check remaining samples in the FIFO
2020-10-08T00:34:53 < qyx> and compute sampling freq, it varies by ~0.001Hz
2020-10-08T00:35:29 < qyx> also the latter is higher, around 1155 Hz
2020-10-08T00:36:12 < qyx> so I am curious if I am mussing DRDY pulses or what
2020-10-08T00:38:10 < qyx> if I missed sample from an overflown FIFO, it would be the other way around
2020-10-08T00:38:55 < Laurenceb> >what is statistics
2020-10-08T00:39:10 < Laurenceb> 1/sqrt(n) more specifically
2020-10-08T00:39:18 < Laurenceb> where n is the number of samples
2020-10-08T00:39:46 < qyx> number of samples is 81920
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2020-10-08T00:40:05 < Laurenceb> iirc there was a site looking at jitter on avr that examined the statistics in detail
2020-10-08T00:40:13 < Laurenceb> hmm maybe it was elm-chan
2020-10-08T00:40:35 < Cracki> qyx, any way to be counting "off by one"?
2020-10-08T00:41:16 < Cracki> please quantify your times in time rather than 1/time
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2020-10-08T00:42:03 < qyx> I must have been off by 3 s to make 1100 -> 1155 difference
2020-10-08T00:42:16 < Cracki> 1100 +- 0.4 hz is 908.76 vs 909.42 µs
2020-10-08T00:42:23 < Cracki> so not all that much difference
2020-10-08T00:42:30 < qyx> it is fucking much
2020-10-08T00:42:42 < Cracki> 1155 / 1100 = 1.05
2020-10-08T00:42:48 < Cracki> so where are you counting wrong
2020-10-08T00:43:08 < Cracki> get a logic analyzer, trace it all
2020-10-08T00:43:27 < Cracki> no dicking around with things watching themselves
2020-10-08T00:43:32 < qyx> I sample 81920 samples in 71010 ms, time is counted by 32K TCXO
2020-10-08T00:43:42 < Cracki> how do you determine "in x time"
2020-10-08T00:43:57 < qyx> a free running timer
2020-10-08T00:44:01 < qyx> it is simply too much
2020-10-08T00:44:14 < Cracki> figure out if you have any constant time in there, a "startup" time
2020-10-08T00:44:21 < qyx> yes, there may be a subtle difference between using input capture vs get_counter()
2020-10-08T00:44:24 < qyx> but not 3000 ms
2020-10-08T00:44:29 < Cracki> ax+b, x number of samples
2020-10-08T00:44:49 < Cracki> so what, samples get dropped/swallowed?
2020-10-08T00:45:02 < Cracki> interrupts not noticed, or don't get indicated right?
2020-10-08T00:45:04 < Cracki> use a LA
2020-10-08T00:45:06 < Cracki> look at it all
2020-10-08T00:45:12 < qyx> probably one of the mentioned
2020-10-08T00:45:14 < Cracki> don't reduce the situation to _two numbers_
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2020-10-08T00:46:50 < qyx> yeah I'll check that
2020-10-08T00:47:00 < qyx> I must have missed around 4000 interrupts
2020-10-08T00:47:42 < Cracki> everything is a lie until you attach a LA
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2020-10-08T01:06:38 < qyx> scope says DRDY is 1102 Hz, it is clean, I measure 1102, so thats correct
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2020-10-08T01:06:58 < qyx> so FIFO sampling is wrong
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2020-10-08T01:17:39 < Cracki> clean meaning you can see that there is NO missing pulse at all anywhere?
2020-10-08T01:19:47 < qyx> Cracki pls
2020-10-08T01:20:11 < Cracki> you say scope, scope is not LA
2020-10-08T01:20:27 < qyx> if the scope says 1102 and I measure 1102 using a TCXO, the scope is right
2020-10-08T01:20:49 < qyx> if I measure by scope 115.3 Hz for every 10th FIFO sample
2020-10-08T01:20:59 < qyx> it means there are more samples in the FIFO
2020-10-08T01:21:18 < qyx> and DRDY sampling is right
2020-10-08T01:21:41 < Cracki> do the number 20 and 21 sound suspicious to you
2020-10-08T01:22:11 < qyx> of course, thats exactly the rest to 32 at the moment of reading
2020-10-08T01:22:24 < qyx> FIFO size is 32
2020-10-08T01:22:29 < qyx> but wtf
2020-10-08T01:22:52 < Cracki> since you measure 1102 instead of 1100, the ratio is only 1.0481, not 1.05=21/20
2020-10-08T01:23:11 < qyx> no, the datasheet says 1100 with some tolerance
2020-10-08T01:23:22 < qyx> I measure 1102 which is within its tolerance
2020-10-08T01:23:34 < qyx> but when counting values read from the FIFO
2020-10-08T01:23:42 < qyx> I count as if it was 1153
2020-10-08T01:23:47 < qyx> which is wrong
2020-10-08T01:24:02 < Cracki> so what, your counting is wrong, or it's shoving more data into the fifo than it interrupts?
2020-10-08T01:24:19 < Cracki> or some reads don't remove the value from the fifo?
2020-10-08T01:24:28 < qyx> either of
2020-10-08T01:24:49 < Cracki> ok so shake/noise it and see if neighboring samples are equal
2020-10-08T01:24:49 < qyx> it is hard to debug, if I check how the FIFO grows, it looks ok
2020-10-08T01:25:06 < qyx> yeah
2020-10-08T01:25:42 < Cracki> use mcu to read single values from fifo, pulse a pin immediately, LA-trace both that and the DRDY, see what the fuck is going on
2020-10-08T01:26:16 < Cracki> can you poll the fifo and notice within finite time when it goes from empty to one sample stored?
2020-10-08T01:26:53 < Cracki> at ~5% difference, you should be seeing _something_ after capturing ~20 samples
2020-10-08T01:27:20 < qyx> pulsing LEd atm
2020-10-08T01:27:31 < Cracki> do not use your human senses
2020-10-08T01:27:35 < Cracki> use your superpowers
2020-10-08T01:27:48 < qyx> pls
2020-10-08T01:27:56 < qyx> using a tool to see the led pulse
2020-10-08T01:28:00 < qyx> oh
2020-10-08T01:28:01 < qyx> iis3dhhc: fs = 1102.361 Hz
2020-10-08T01:28:01 < qyx> batch time 74283 ms, fs = 1102.351 Hz
2020-10-08T01:28:05 < Cracki> wat now
2020-10-08T01:28:05 < qyx> I got match
2020-10-08T01:28:18 < Cracki> impossible
2020-10-08T01:28:23 < qyx> ok so I have to wait until there is 11 samples in the FIFO
2020-10-08T01:28:26 < qyx> to be able to read 10
2020-10-08T01:28:26 < Cracki> what went wrong for it to go right
2020-10-08T01:28:35 < Cracki> uh what
2020-10-08T01:28:38 < Cracki> what did you do before
2020-10-08T01:28:47 < Cracki> read 10 when there were 10?
2020-10-08T01:28:59 < qyx> I polled it until there are 10, read 10, FIFO becomes empty
2020-10-08T01:29:12 < qyx> *at least 10
2020-10-08T01:29:23 < Cracki> ok?
2020-10-08T01:29:29 < Cracki> so far I see no problem
2020-10-08T01:29:31 < Cracki> where's the problem
2020-10-08T01:29:51 < qyx> now I changed it to wait until there are at least 11
2020-10-08T01:29:52 < qyx> read 10
2020-10-08T01:30:02 < Cracki> uh ok
2020-10-08T01:30:05 < qyx> FIFO becomes 1
2020-10-08T01:30:08 < qyx> then again
2020-10-08T01:30:50 < qyx> hm, it may be the case that the FIFO count register is actually an index where the newly measured value will be written
2020-10-08T01:30:57 < Cracki> "reading" 10 and leaving one in to be read again would give you 10% more, not 5% more
2020-10-08T01:31:31 < Cracki> does the datashit not clarify this
2020-10-08T01:31:51 < qyx> no, it is shit
2020-10-08T01:31:57 < Cracki> great
2020-10-08T01:32:18 < qyx> https://i.imgur.com/m4ECs03.png
2020-10-08T01:32:48 < qyx> hm
2020-10-08T01:33:05 < qyx> yeah if I see 10 unread samples, I assume I may safely read 10 samples
2020-10-08T01:33:21 < Cracki> a fair assumption
2020-10-08T01:33:58 < Cracki> >five different modes: Bypass mode, FIFO mode, Continuous mode, Continuous-to-FIFO mode and Bypass-to-Continuous mode
2020-10-08T01:33:58 < qyx> https://i.imgur.com/MY043mk.png
2020-10-08T01:34:00 < Cracki> uh
2020-10-08T01:34:33 < qyx> the picture confirms
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2020-10-08T01:37:04 < qyx> ok I am not required to understand everything
2020-10-08T01:37:49 < Cracki> why not, because it works now?
2020-10-08T01:37:58 < mawk> did you see qyx 
2020-10-08T01:38:09 < mawk> my masterpiece just for you
2020-10-08T01:38:52 < mawk> also my conclusion that I've been stupid and the formula for interpolated gives the same result, when you have 3 points (but if you have more points then the full algorithm I've made is the way to go)
2020-10-08T01:38:59 < mawk> https://serveur.io/kickx.html
2020-10-08T01:39:31 < qyx> Cracki: yes
2020-10-08T01:41:13 < qyx> mawk: O_o
2020-10-08T01:41:15 < qyx> not yet
2020-10-08T01:42:24 < mawk> lol
2020-10-08T01:42:27 < mawk> what
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2020-10-08T01:43:13 < Cracki> how do you read multiple values from the fifo? read multiple times from the same register?
2020-10-08T01:43:34 < qyx> yes
2020-10-08T01:43:43 < Cracki> I wonder what they screwed up
2020-10-08T01:43:49 < Cracki> hm...
2020-10-08T01:43:53 < Cracki> I THINK I can imagine
2020-10-08T01:44:00 < Cracki> you can never "empty" the fifo
2020-10-08T01:44:13 < Cracki> so reading the 10th of 10 samples "leaves" it there
2020-10-08T01:44:33 < Cracki> but that should have happened *half* the time for you to get 5% differenece
2020-10-08T01:45:21 < qyx> the case of not triggering it at 1/10.. it maybe related to not doing polling fast enough
2020-10-08T01:46:04 < qyx> I mean, with decimation and FFT taking some time I may read the FIFO when there are already more than 10 samples
2020-10-08T01:46:23 < Cracki> hm no, it can explicitly model "empty" fifo, no values in it
2020-10-08T01:46:25 < Cracki> ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
2020-10-08T01:46:34 < qyx> idk
2020-10-08T01:46:40 < qyx> now it works, I have to advance a bit
2020-10-08T01:51:09 < mawk> for 3 points, I believe this is the closed formula qyx : https://maths.serveur.io/36msVNni
2020-10-08T01:51:14 < mawk> didn't test it but seems probable
2020-10-08T01:51:16 < mawk> it's very small
2020-10-08T01:53:44 < mawk> in python code: (y1*(x2+x3)/((x1-x2)*(x1-x3)) + y2*(x1+x3)/((x2-x1)*(x2-x3)) + y3*(x1+x2)/((x3-x1)*(x3-x2)))/(2*y1/((x1-x2)*(x1-x3)) + 2*y2/((x2-x1)*(x2-x3)) + 2*y3/((x3-x1)*(x3-x2)))
2020-10-08T01:53:48 < mawk> seems to work
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2020-10-08T01:54:38 < mawk> keep in mind if the denominator is positive it means it's a minimum
2020-10-08T01:54:44 < mawk> otherwise, a maximum
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2020-10-08T02:04:31 < Cracki> that closed form looks familiar in parts. some of that resembles the expressions I found to determine the x coordinate of the apex given samples at -1, 0, +1
2020-10-08T02:04:50 < Cracki> (some of that would simplify obv)
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2020-10-08T04:01:28 < fenugrec> anyone have the link for ST<s parametric selector table for mcus ? can't find it yet
2020-10-08T04:02:26 < fenugrec> oh there's one for every "group" i.e. maisntream, high perf, etc. 
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2020-10-08T04:09:44 < Cracki> this thing? https://www.st.com/en/development-tools/st-mcu-finder.html
2020-10-08T04:11:19 < Cracki> some selection is in cubemx too
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2020-10-08T06:37:36 < bitmask> having some trouble with the print curling but heres my first print, the top looks pretty damn good.  
2020-10-08T06:37:37 < bitmask> https://imgur.com/a/NRROs6S
2020-10-08T06:37:50 < bitmask> no ringing or z banding
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2020-10-08T10:55:14 < dongs> why teh fuck I cant write DBGMCU_APBx_FZ shit
2020-10-08T10:55:18 < dongs> i write it and its still not set?
2020-10-08T10:57:08 < Steffanx> Keil optimizes it away, since keil knows its so awesome, there's no need to debug.
2020-10-08T10:58:28 < Steffanx> Anyway  did you enable the clock?
2020-10-08T10:59:51 < qyx> ##covid32, we are going >1000 daily
2020-10-08T11:00:01 < qyx> first wave was ~140 max
2020-10-08T11:01:07 < Steffanx> Here were almost at 5k daily
2020-10-08T11:01:09 < Steffanx> Yay.
2020-10-08T11:02:15 < Steffanx> But still way less hospitialized or dead
2020-10-08T11:02:21 < dongs> enable what clock
2020-10-08T11:02:28 < Steffanx> Dbgmcu
2020-10-08T11:02:38 < dongs> uh
2020-10-08T11:03:03 < dongs>  /* To be able to debug in stop mode */
2020-10-08T11:03:04 < dongs> DBGMCU->CR |= DBGMCU_CR_DBG_STOP;
2020-10-08T11:03:09 < dongs> it sa ys nothign about enabling clocks.
2020-10-08T11:03:14 < dongs> in ST example code.
2020-10-08T11:03:20 < dongs> also you can read DBGMCU->IDCODE normally.
2020-10-08T11:03:25 < dongs> so i dont think it needs a clock
2020-10-08T11:09:13 < dongs> wait what the fuck
2020-10-08T11:09:24 < dongs> it DOES have a clock
2020-10-08T11:09:28 < dongs> but whyt the fuck idcode read works??
2020-10-08T11:13:16 < Steffanx> You're welcome 
2020-10-08T11:13:31 < dongs> fuck ST for not even mentioning this in datasheet wtf
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2020-10-08T11:35:04 < jpa-> dongs: if debugger is not connected, many of the DBGMCU registers are not writable
2020-10-08T11:35:21 < jpa-> after debugger has been connected once after power-on-reset, it should work
2020-10-08T11:35:55 < jpa-> but yeah, it has RCC clock gate also
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2020-10-08T13:50:05 < dongs> jpa-: my debugger was connected, i was fucking with it in keil peripheral viewer.
2020-10-08T13:50:11 < dongs> but yeah it was the clock gate.
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2020-10-08T17:58:46 < karlp> right. phase locked dac channels. ok. duh.
2020-10-08T17:58:54 < karlp> usb controlled is great, but now they're out of step :)
2020-10-08T18:03:06 < Steffanx> Awh
2020-10-08T18:03:33  * qyx trying https://github.com/lemire/MaskedVByte
2020-10-08T18:03:45 < qyx> Compressed 256 integers down to 378 bytes.
2020-10-08T18:04:11 < qyx> not totally bad
2020-10-08T18:04:37 < qyx> if I keep the values as they are Compressed 256 integers down to 616 bytes.
2020-10-08T18:05:52 < qyx> https://paste.jvnv.net/view/Gj9ZS
2020-10-08T18:06:07 < qyx> I am tempted to use https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Minifloat
2020-10-08T18:13:33 < mawk> lossy compression then
2020-10-08T18:16:24 < jpa-> qyx: so it is encoding the deltas and then as varint?
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2020-10-08T18:26:08 < qyx> not lossy
2020-10-08T18:26:27 < qyx> jpa-: it requires unsigned as the input, so no deltas
2020-10-08T18:26:35 < qyx> unless I encode thm as zig-zag
2020-10-08T18:27:08 < jpa-> depends on data, not sure if it would even help for spectrum data
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2020-10-08T18:38:11 < karlp> bleh, hrm, setup nice independent 16bit buffers for dac channel 1 and 2, if I want to tie them together, I need to have a same length 32bit buffer...
2020-10-08T18:38:40 < karlp> lameass tastic.
2020-10-08T18:38:44 < karlp> stupid hardware realities
2020-10-08T18:42:55 < jpa-> use DMA2D to interleave the buffers on the fly
2020-10-08T18:43:17 < karlp> was just looking at dma modes .)
2020-10-08T18:43:37 < karlp> hooray though, my phase detection happily told me the two dac cahnnels weren't in phase :)
2020-10-08T18:44:59 < karlp> I reckon I cann make the 32bit buffer always have both copies, and tell dma to onyl do 16bit transfers sometimes though...
2020-10-08T18:46:44 < jpa-> boring and simple
2020-10-08T18:46:55 < jpa-> i wouldn't want to be maintaining such a boring codebase
2020-10-08T18:48:27 < karlp> eyah, fuck that.
2020-10-08T18:51:10 < englishman> qyx: also 1k+ per day here, new records, with very few hospitalizations or deaths
2020-10-08T18:51:38 < qyx> karlp: cannot you two DMA jobs and set destination increment to 32bit?
2020-10-08T18:52:01 < PaulFertser> bitmask: hey. Your print looks like the bed is overheated. What's the filament used?
2020-10-08T18:52:42 < bitmask> im still figuring out how to use this powder coated PEI spring steel sheet, ive been using hairspray on glass for the past 2 years
2020-10-08T18:52:46 < bitmask> its just pla
2020-10-08T18:52:46 < karlp> qyx: well, just looking at the dma dual registers, 
2020-10-08T18:53:05 < karlp> I suppose I could set them to just triger on the same thing, instead of tim6/7, and use two dma jobs,
2020-10-08T18:53:12 < PaulFertser> bitmask: and what was the temperature?
2020-10-08T18:53:15 < karlp> but there's all thsis support for just doing one dma job
2020-10-08T18:53:48 < PaulFertser> bitmask: it looks like "elephant foot" symptom to me.
2020-10-08T18:54:49 < bitmask> first i tried bed at 60 which was my standard with glass, the print curled so much the nozzle popped it off the bed, then I did this print at 70 which let the print finish but it still curled like crazy
2020-10-08T18:55:01 < PaulFertser> bitmask: what layer do you enable the fan on?
2020-10-08T18:55:05 < bitmask> 2
2020-10-08T18:55:31 < bitmask> i do need better fan ducts, i dont think my design is very good
2020-10-08T18:55:52 < bitmask> but I have two fans so i dont think it should be this bad 
2020-10-08T18:56:08 < PaulFertser> bitmask: interesting, when I print PLA on my glass covered with PVA glue I often have issues taking the part off bed, I sometimes put it into freezer to be able to unstick it.
2020-10-08T18:56:59 < bitmask> same with me, glass was easy, this pei is tricky, maybe i should try another brand but i'll keep messing with settings a bit and see what happens
2020-10-08T18:57:04 < bitmask> maybe i'll try cooler
2020-10-08T18:57:10 < PaulFertser> bitmask: and PLA should be possible even with unheated bed afaik. Is there a chance it's not 70 but more like 90 for you there?
2020-10-08T18:57:13 < bitmask> though 60 should be cool enough
2020-10-08T18:57:33 < bitmask> ill check with a ir therm later
2020-10-08T18:58:00 < bitmask> but i doubt it, both thermistors (bed and heat block) read the same temp at room temp
2020-10-08T18:58:08 < Steffanx> Do you dry your filament?
2020-10-08T18:58:17 < bitmask> no, its never wet filament
2020-10-08T18:58:32 < PaulFertser> Hm, makes sense. Then probably that pei just doesn't stick to pla.
2020-10-08T18:58:45 < bitmask> i keep it in sealed bucket with dessicant
2020-10-08T18:58:59 < jadew> what's the problem?
2020-10-08T18:59:02 < bitmask> i'll try petg later too
2020-10-08T18:59:08 < jadew> I can't find the picture you're talking about
2020-10-08T18:59:09 < PaulFertser> jadew: https://imgur.com/a/NRROs6S
2020-10-08T18:59:12 < jadew> thanks
2020-10-08T18:59:23 < bitmask> that was my first print with the new printer, having bed adhesion issues
2020-10-08T18:59:39 < jadew> that looks bad, yeah
2020-10-08T18:59:58 < bitmask> the first layer goes on great which is weird, then after a few layers it starts curling like crazy
2020-10-08T19:00:11 < jadew> yeah, they pull it up
2020-10-08T19:00:18 < bitmask> yea
2020-10-08T19:00:20 < jadew> so what's the bed temperature?
2020-10-08T19:00:42 < bitmask> i tried 60, curled so much the nozzle hit it popping it off the bed before finishing, this was done at 70
2020-10-08T19:00:52 < jadew> any chance it's too high?
2020-10-08T19:01:04 < bitmask> im gonna try lower
2020-10-08T19:01:12 < bitmask> still seems weird though
2020-10-08T19:01:32 < bitmask> i'll try 50 right now
2020-10-08T19:01:39 < jadew> try lower
2020-10-08T19:01:42 < jadew> 30
2020-10-08T19:01:52 < jadew> (maybe it's not regulating properly)
2020-10-08T19:02:12 < jadew> the thing is all the base layers seem to be deformed
2020-10-08T19:02:18 < jadew> so it has to be a temperature thing
2020-10-08T19:02:23 < PaulFertser> Yeah, I had very similar results when the bed was too hot for the plastic and part.
2020-10-08T19:02:24 < bitmask> the chart looks smooth as butter, pid tuned it
2020-10-08T19:02:35 < PaulFertser> (and I had it with ABS and without fan)
2020-10-08T19:03:46 < jadew> does it curl up from the start?
2020-10-08T19:03:59 < jadew> like you lay down the first one or two layers and it starts curling?
2020-10-08T19:04:16 < bitmask> after the third or fourth
2020-10-08T19:04:51 < bitmask> grr brb gotta reboot router
2020-10-08T19:07:37 < jadew> lol, what a shit name for a company: "goodbay"
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2020-10-08T19:07:53 < dongs> nothing beats banggood
2020-10-08T19:08:00 < jadew> lol, yeah
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2020-10-08T19:09:52 < bitmask_> alright, trying 40 now
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2020-10-08T19:15:13 < bitmask_> hmm, not sticking
2020-10-08T19:16:23 < PaulFertser> My heart is broke \n But I have some glue
2020-10-08T19:22:24 < bitmask_> im gonna try to buff the pei surface
2020-10-08T19:22:29 < bitmask_> this aint sticking
2020-10-08T19:28:38 < jadew> maybe it's shitty pei?
2020-10-08T19:29:06 < jadew> the one that came with my prusa is great
2020-10-08T19:29:28 < jadew> for a print like that I would actually add talk powder to it to make it less sticky
2020-10-08T19:29:29 < bitmask_> yea could be, I was considering getting a new one from prusa
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2020-10-08T19:35:30 < bitmask_> buffing it with fine steel wool actually helped, first layer going on smooth
2020-10-08T19:35:40 < bitmask_> bed at 45
2020-10-08T19:36:30 < bitmask_> im too close to the bed though, coming out chunky
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2020-10-08T19:38:47 < bitmask_> lookin good so far
2020-10-08T19:39:13 < PaulFertser> Where did you get fine steel wool from and why?
2020-10-08T19:40:02 < bitmask_> i got a pack of 3 different grades, fine med and coarse, i got it for cleaning copper clad before making pcbs
2020-10-08T19:41:05 < bitmask_> sticking perfectly now
2020-10-08T19:41:25 < bitmask_> im curious to try 60 again just to see
2020-10-08T19:41:41 < bitmask_> oh damn, a corner in the back is lifting
2020-10-08T19:41:45 < bitmask_> didnt see that...
2020-10-08T19:42:22 < bitmask_> front is starting to lift too... ugh
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2020-10-08T19:57:22 < bitmask_> 60 is working
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2020-10-08T20:09:28 < karlp> listening to you guys talk abotu 3d printers makes me fucking glad I've never tried wasting time on them
2020-10-08T20:09:46 < karlp> I'd have enbough time sink with the 3d design parts, let alone this garbage fire of printers
2020-10-08T20:13:47 < bitmask_> once you get it working theres not much fucking around.  just changing one thing can force you to retune everything though so a whole new printer can be a pain in the ass
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2020-10-08T20:16:03 < BrainDamage> all the problems of a 2d printer, plus an additional dimension
2020-10-08T20:16:42 < bitmask_> haha I wish it were 'just' an additional dimension
2020-10-08T20:17:00 < mawk> and time dimension as well
2020-10-08T20:17:05 < mawk> you need to plot things in a distinct order
2020-10-08T20:17:10 < mawk> so it's a 4D printer!
2020-10-08T20:17:28 < Ultrasauce> yeah i've never crashed an inkjet
2020-10-08T20:17:39 < BrainDamage> I did
2020-10-08T20:17:54 < mawk> your squid tried to mate with it?
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2020-10-08T20:18:23 < BrainDamage> and even had the printing trolley slam on the side of the rail
2020-10-08T20:18:46 < Ultrasauce> what did you do to it
2020-10-08T20:19:05 < BrainDamage> nothing, the endstop switch just broke
2020-10-08T20:19:15 < BrainDamage> so it'd power slam into the side
2020-10-08T20:19:19 < Ultrasauce> nice
2020-10-08T20:20:28 < BrainDamage> it made such lovely noises during boot
2020-10-08T20:20:53 < BrainDamage> instead of the stepper losing steps, it had enough torque to skip steps on the transmission chain teeths
2020-10-08T20:21:07 < BrainDamage> and apparently, no torque control
2020-10-08T20:21:24 < BrainDamage> it sounded like it was thrown in a blender
2020-10-08T20:21:35 < Cracki> uh
2020-10-08T20:21:54 < Ultrasauce> they usually use a brushed dc motor servo with an optical encoder
2020-10-08T20:22:42 < Ultrasauce> without much motor control afaik, just controlling the inkjet pattern in time with its motion
2020-10-08T20:23:13 < BrainDamage> that one was a stepper, hybrid, could feel the teeth during rotation
2020-10-08T20:23:24 < Ultrasauce> interesting
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2020-10-08T20:57:07 < boddax> why N die are bif than P die ?
2020-10-08T20:57:26 < boddax> *bigger
2020-10-08T21:01:04 < Cracki> r u playing with mosfets
2020-10-08T21:02:53 < qyx> Ultrasauce: all inkjets I had had steppers for both paper feeding and head movement
2020-10-08T21:02:57 < qyx> 2x epson, 2x hp
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2020-10-08T21:03:29 < zyp> fuck inkjets
2020-10-08T21:03:34 < zyp> color laser all the way
2020-10-08T21:03:46 < boddax> yes cracki but cintrary P is bigger
2020-10-08T21:03:49 < karlp> neither of them crash or requiring measureing the temperature of the output ttray....
2020-10-08T21:04:02 < karlp> or tweaking your document because you got a new printer...
2020-10-08T21:04:08 < Cracki> the inkjet I owned used dcs with encoders. a few I disassembled contained dc motor + encoder strip for the x movement, but steppers for feed
2020-10-08T21:04:25 < boddax> maybe N has more efficency
2020-10-08T21:04:33 < qyx> yeah a bug caused my fusing unit to disassemble itself
2020-10-08T21:04:47 < qyx> literally a bug
2020-10-08T21:05:05 < qyx> it glued the two cylinders together
2020-10-08T21:05:26 < qyx> on the next start the foam was torn away from the cylinders
2020-10-08T21:05:32 < Cracki> :D
2020-10-08T21:06:30 < boddax> with titebond :))
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2020-10-08T21:21:12 < Cracki> YOLO :D https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=E9TNYMrrQsg
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2020-10-08T21:34:42 < qyx> so I compressed the spectrum in a log scale to 8bits per bin
2020-10-08T21:34:50 < qyx> https://i.imgur.com/V3ScLTE.png
2020-10-08T21:34:53 < boddax> who 3D gears?
2020-10-08T21:35:01 < boddax> printed
2020-10-08T21:35:25 < Cracki> I printed some GT2-2mm pulleys but that's all
2020-10-08T21:35:32 < boddax> lol
2020-10-08T21:35:37 < Cracki> a huge 128 tooth one
2020-10-08T21:36:03 < boddax> wich software you used to design it Cracki
2020-10-08T21:36:03 < Cracki> 16 tooth pulley on the motor side
2020-10-08T21:36:08 < Cracki> autodesk inventor
2020-10-08T21:36:17 < boddax> wow complicated
2020-10-08T21:36:30 < Cracki> defined the tooth profile, subtract from a cylinder once, replicate pattern 127 times
2020-10-08T21:36:33 < Cracki> not at all
2020-10-08T21:36:43 < Cracki> openscat is worse
2020-10-08T21:37:10 < boddax> yes have script too but many errors
2020-10-08T21:37:23 < Cracki> with openshit you'd have to still define the tooth profile elsewhere (shitscape?) and use that
2020-10-08T21:37:57 < Ultrasauce> there are a few decent libraries for gears in openscat
2020-10-08T21:38:08 < boddax> 127 thoot recall me conversion from imperial to metric
2020-10-08T21:39:12 < Cracki> I picked 128 thots because nice round ratio of 8 to my other pulleys
2020-10-08T21:39:30 < boddax> 1:2:8 ?
2020-10-08T21:39:34 < Cracki> 16:128
2020-10-08T21:39:57 < Cracki> 16 tooth gt2 is ubiquitous from its use in 3d printers
2020-10-08T21:40:02 < Cracki> gt2-2mm
2020-10-08T21:40:07 < Cracki> same with the belts
2020-10-08T21:40:28 < Cracki> and no "slip" either, some springiness at worst
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2020-10-08T21:40:44 < Cracki> I was eyeing worm gears but nah
2020-10-08T21:40:58 < Cracki> and a wave drive... would have been too high tech :>
2020-10-08T21:41:36 < Ultrasauce> i followed a number of harmonic drive hobby projects and they all ended up sucking
2020-10-08T21:41:47 < boddax> arrow theet shape i guess is the more resistant
2020-10-08T21:43:47 < boddax> https://s.alicdn.com/@sc01/kf/H47d485f2627d46fd8f4b450d52264929v.jpeg_300x300.jpg
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2020-10-08T23:37:45 < Steffanx> so did mawk die?
2020-10-08T23:40:54 < zyp> aww
2020-10-08T23:50:11 < Steffanx> Zyp can burry him in the ditch hes digging
2020-10-08T23:50:26 < antto> music: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6oAqOFz6QsU
2020-10-08T23:51:16 < Steffanx> Awful.
2020-10-08T23:51:17 < Steffanx> Thanks
2020-10-08T23:51:25 < antto> shadap'n'consume
2020-10-08T23:51:31 < zyp> Steffanx, don't think that's a good idea
2020-10-08T23:51:47 < zyp> the ditch is for drainage, don't want to clog it up with mawk 
2020-10-08T23:53:29 < englishman> is ping death real death?
2020-10-08T23:54:30 < karlp> hrm, 400uV difference between the dac channels
2020-10-08T23:56:14 < karlp> new dmm finally coming in useful, confirming that sw is correctly seeing a real difference
--- Day changed Fri Oct 09 2020
2020-10-09T00:02:49 < mawk> no Steffanx 
2020-10-09T00:03:00 < mawk> zyp :(
2020-10-09T00:03:11 < mawk> I deserve to decompose honorably in your ditch
2020-10-09T00:03:20 < mawk> you're denying my constitutional right to decomposition
2020-10-09T00:03:34 < mawk> I'm prepared to take it to the supreme court
2020-10-09T00:03:46 < zyp> which constitution?
2020-10-09T00:04:11 < mawk> the Universal Declaration of ##Stm32 Rights of 1789
2020-10-09T00:05:03 < mawk> so qyx did you like my pretty maths
2020-10-09T00:05:14 < mawk> Cracki liked it a lot you can trust it
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2020-10-09T00:05:17 < karlp> fuck that music antto, wtf.
2020-10-09T00:05:28 < mawk> I'm surprised you clicked on the link
2020-10-09T00:06:10 < karlp> I do like to get new ideas from new people, but sometimes I regret it 
2020-10-09T00:06:17 < antto> mute it and watch jeez0s then
2020-10-09T00:06:24 < zyp> heh, I expected something worse
2020-10-09T00:06:34 < zyp> that doesn't strike me as bad, just bland
2020-10-09T00:06:49 < karlp> have this instead: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RJp2nM2H_Gc
2020-10-09T00:06:59 < karlp> yeah, anttos is jsut horribly generic
2020-10-09T00:07:41 < antto> wut is this
2020-10-09T00:07:46 < mawk> ГОСПОДЬ ИИ ИИСУС ХРИСТОС
2020-10-09T00:07:53 < zyp> I'm not sure I wanna mention the sort of shit I listen to
2020-10-09T00:07:53 < mawk> now I know the name of the fucker in russian
2020-10-09T00:08:00 < mawk> say it's techno zyp 
2020-10-09T00:08:03 < mawk> hardcore techno
2020-10-09T00:08:16 < mawk> then I will like you forever
2020-10-09T00:09:10 < antto> meh, this is some weird rap sh*t
2020-10-09T00:09:16 < Steffanx> Yes share it zyp
2020-10-09T00:09:22 < Steffanx> K-pop?
2020-10-09T00:09:23 < antto> with guit0rz
2020-10-09T00:10:39 < qyx> mawk: I did read it, haven't tried yet, now I am transmitting full spectrum over radio, so no precise peak detect :(
2020-10-09T00:11:08 < zyp> Steffanx, yesterday I was listening to shitty ewi covers of japanese game soundtracks
2020-10-09T00:12:33 < antto> okay, here's another one: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tiIyd9E2TeU
2020-10-09T00:12:42 < zyp> youtube has playlists full of this shit: https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLMpfUlhitHutWT29wxf8WHX4k0UfvewW5
2020-10-09T00:12:43 < antto> the uploader username is a special greeting to senpai
2020-10-09T00:13:21 < antto> hm, maybe also the video/picture
2020-10-09T00:13:25 < karlp> antto: more guitar? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KDaMm1ydQDQ
2020-10-09T00:13:26 < zyp> today I was listening to some hour long 8 bit soundtrack medley, but I forgot which
2020-10-09T00:14:13 < Steffanx> antto: this would be even more him https://youtu.be/QcJ4evhLcCU
2020-10-09T00:14:19 < qyx> zyp: are you ok?
2020-10-09T00:14:36 < antto> karlp, bluh, no thanks
2020-10-09T00:14:58 < antto> Steffanx, who?
2020-10-09T00:15:18 < antto> that's some vap0rwave or sumfin
2020-10-09T00:15:40 < Steffanx> Timecop = senpai. (Not that timecop, but ... )
2020-10-09T00:15:57 < antto> uh, i don't get it
2020-10-09T00:16:03 < antto> does senpai make music?
2020-10-09T00:16:05 < zyp> qyx, it's awful, right? :D
2020-10-09T00:16:11 < Steffanx> Lol no antto 
2020-10-09T00:16:18 < Steffanx> Its awful indeed zyp
2020-10-09T00:16:58 < Steffanx> Were you playing pokemon on your gameboy while listening to that?
2020-10-09T00:17:06 < zyp> no, working
2020-10-09T00:17:27 < Steffanx> As if lunix wasnt enough?
2020-10-09T00:17:47 < zyp> I focus better with shitty music
2020-10-09T00:19:36 < antto> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OrR1TGQY20Y
2020-10-09T00:20:19 < antto> [may contain product placement]
2020-10-09T00:22:50 < bitmask_> https://imgur.com/a/DaFYxEq
2020-10-09T00:23:07 < bitmask_> got some underextrusion in places, but the cooling is much better than I expected
2020-10-09T00:23:12 < karlp> https://bin.jvnv.net/file/KocUb.png JDA1 and JDA2 both have exactly same voltage, down to hundreds of uV, JDB1 has 400uV different for the same channel data.
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2020-10-09T00:24:39 < zyp> karlp, not some weird mode on one GPIO that's wrong and injecting current?
2020-10-09T00:29:00 < karlp> hrm, wouldn't expect so, currently looking at the buffer. on/off. 
2020-10-09T00:29:12 < karlp> PA4/PA5 are both only for the dac, wouldn't expect much else
2020-10-09T00:29:57 < karlp> didn't really highlight tracks very well there for that screenshot...
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2020-10-09T00:38:34 < qyx> meh, a new issue, still some issues, I hate issues
2020-10-09T00:38:49 < qyx> my RN2483 refuses to send anything longer than 17 bytes
2020-10-09T00:39:09 < qyx> ok wat, it actually returns success
2020-10-09T00:39:39 < karlp> hrm, if I'm going to do this a lot, I'm going to need to jumper for all the pins to have the same dac output.
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2020-10-09T01:10:49 < karlp> woo, I might need to take a break.
2020-10-09T01:18:28 < karlp> tada, I have my waveform offset by an amount, not centered on tthat amount. dumb...
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2020-10-09T01:18:50 < karlp> (unrelated to the dac channel differences, that appears to just be within spec of the dac really)
2020-10-09T01:20:46 < karlp> LSB is only 800uV at 3.3v, so getting 400uV between two channels when _best case_ offset error is 1.5LSB seems perfectly within spec really.
2020-10-09T01:23:49 < karlp> having this lameo scope really came through
2020-10-09T01:23:57 < karlp> way easier than dumping vars from gdb and replotting :)
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2020-10-09T02:01:04 < steverrrr> any k40 laser owners here?
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2020-10-09T02:31:45 < Mangy_Dog> not a k40 owner sorry but 4060 with a trochen controller
2020-10-09T02:34:31 < Laurenceb> >>Pastor Steven Anderson was using church money for hookers and gang raping underage girls
2020-10-09T02:34:36 < Laurenceb> my orbital sides
2020-10-09T02:34:52  * Laurenceb passes him a millstone
2020-10-09T02:35:46 < steverrrr> link?
2020-10-09T02:35:56 < steverrrr> Mangy_Dog that looks similar to the k40.  does it have a ground lug and do you use it?
2020-10-09T02:36:22 < Laurenceb> 4chan rumours for now
2020-10-09T02:36:31 < Laurenceb> but they have police mugshot from somewhere
2020-10-09T02:36:44 < Laurenceb> very funny if true
2020-10-09T02:36:56 < Laurenceb> VITAMIN K!!!
2020-10-09T02:37:06 < karlp> k for ketamine?
2020-10-09T02:39:12 < Mangy_Dog> i dont know who pastor steven anderson is.......
2020-10-09T02:39:23 < Mangy_Dog> but i suspect hes rather famous over there?
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2020-10-09T02:39:30 < Mangy_Dog> for that to be news worthy
2020-10-09T02:39:45 < Mangy_Dog> by ground lug, you mean a grounding connection?
2020-10-09T02:39:46 < Mangy_Dog> yes
2020-10-09T02:39:53 < Mangy_Dog> its wired up to my mains ground pin
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2020-10-09T02:41:48 < Mangy_Dog> also a 4060 looks nothing like a k40 :p
2020-10-09T02:41:55 < Mangy_Dog> its a lot larger for starters :p
2020-10-09T02:42:05 < steverrrr> don't know what that means.  Do you mean your ground lug is connected to a rod driven X feet in the ground?
2020-10-09T02:42:08 < Mangy_Dog> but the barebones basic controllers are the same
2020-10-09T02:42:14 < Mangy_Dog> but like i say mine uses a trochen controller
2020-10-09T02:42:27 < Mangy_Dog> in a matter of speaking.... Yes it is
2020-10-09T02:42:36 < Mangy_Dog> UK mains plugs have a ground line
2020-10-09T02:42:42 < Mangy_Dog> thats connected to ground
2020-10-09T02:42:58 < steverrrr> OK so in a outlet receptacle that a plug would go to
2020-10-09T02:43:00 < Mangy_Dog> its some what a legal requirement here
2020-10-09T02:43:31 < steverrrr> yes same in the US
2020-10-09T02:44:08 < Mangy_Dog> really?
2020-10-09T02:44:14 < Mangy_Dog> i though us mains only had live and neutral
2020-10-09T02:44:16 < karlp> us is like, "urh hurr, what's a grounded pwoer socket"
2020-10-09T02:44:16 < Mangy_Dog> thought
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2020-10-09T02:44:58 < steverrrr> ok I take that back, you do see 2 prong circuits but lots of them are 3, and eg in kitchens they're required
2020-10-09T02:45:12 < karlp> "required"
2020-10-09T02:45:18 < karlp> muh fr333d0ms!
2020-10-09T02:45:42 < karlp> required in new builds, in some jurisdictions perhaps.
2020-10-09T02:45:48 < karlp> sure as shit don't rely on that sort of thing
2020-10-09T02:47:28 < steverrrr> I think design wise the 4060 does look liek the k40.  It's blue and white and it's a box with similar aspect ratio
2020-10-09T02:48:31 < Mangy_Dog> https://image.made-in-china.com/2f0j00NZsagKTFEAzE/80W-4060-Laser-Engraver-Cutter-Machine-with-Good-Price.jpg
2020-10-09T02:48:39 < Mangy_Dog> nearly identical to mine
2020-10-09T02:49:24 < Mangy_Dog> https://i.all3dp.com/cdn-cgi/image/fit=cover,w=1284,h=722,gravity=0.5x0.5,format=auto/wp-content/uploads/2020/02/03140754/isometric-view-ebay-200130.jpg
2020-10-09T02:49:25 < Mangy_Dog> k40
2020-10-09T02:50:06 < Mangy_Dog> id say they look pretty different :p unless them both being made of the same compressed rust sheet metal makes them look the same :p
2020-10-09T02:51:01 < karlp> heh, lurn2printf: fprintf(io.stderr, tostring(r).."\t".. string.format("%2.6f",value) .. "\t" .. string.format("%4.6f", diff) .. "\t" .. string.format("%4.6f",bar.cadj[r]) .. "\t" .. "OK\n")
2020-10-09T02:51:21 < karlp> yo dawg, let's format your formats...
2020-10-09T02:51:35 < steverrrr> what language is that
2020-10-09T02:51:55 < karlp> a poor lua user, using it badly.
2020-10-09T02:52:02 < steverrrr> and who uses tabs
2020-10-09T02:52:11 < karlp> for output formatting? 
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2020-10-09T02:53:27 < Laurenceb> shit that sucks
2020-10-09T02:53:39 < Laurenceb> I just got a permanent global ban from 8chan
2020-10-09T02:53:49 < Laurenceb> >enabling the bumbumking
2020-10-09T02:54:41 < karlp> it got replaced wwith fprintf(io.stderr, "%s\t%2.6f\t%4.6f\t%4.6f\t", r, value, diff, bar.cadj[r])
2020-10-09T02:54:47 < karlp> a _leeeeeettle_ bit simpler
2020-10-09T02:55:39 -!- Streaker [~Streaker@unaffiliated/streaker] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds]
2020-10-09T02:56:28 < Laurenceb> >even 8chan ban me
2020-10-09T02:56:31 < Laurenceb>  :(
2020-10-09T03:02:18 < Laurenceb> bumbumking is a notorious troll who doxxes female users
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2020-10-09T03:11:00  * antto gives Laurenceb a new IP, a new face, and a new identity
2020-10-09T03:11:55 < antto> your new name is Sir-kek-A-Lot
2020-10-09T03:16:19 < aandrew> lol
2020-10-09T03:17:31 < Laurenceb> sheeeet I was lucky
2020-10-09T03:17:53 < Laurenceb> looks like I was accused of being thebumbumking, lucky I didnt get swatted
2020-10-09T03:18:22 < aandrew> https://www.amazon.ca/Belden-3084A-Cable/dp/B01NCR8U75
2020-10-09T03:18:24 < Laurenceb> looks like he is from chapotraphouse, who could have predicted this
2020-10-09T03:18:40 < aandrew> you can't convince me that isn't some money laundering link
2020-10-09T03:18:50 < Laurenceb> >chapotraphouse got b&
2020-10-09T03:18:54 < Laurenceb> no fun allowed
2020-10-09T03:19:15 < Laurenceb> >chud >chud
2020-10-09T03:19:52 < aandrew> well, if you consider doxxing fun, then maybe the ban's legit
2020-10-09T03:19:57 < Laurenceb> lol
2020-10-09T03:20:51 < aandrew> some of these vendors are sitting on such piles of ancient shit and thinking one of these $10 items is gnna make them a millionaire
2020-10-09T03:21:47 < karlp> hrm, all audiofoolery is really money laundering?
2020-10-09T03:22:19 < karlp> aandrew: little bit sore that the cable you want/need is more expensive than you wanted? ;)
2020-10-09T03:22:40 < aandrew> nope, I can get it for $26 which is still a fucking ripoff
2020-10-09T03:22:50 < aandrew> I'm just poking around to see what's out there
2020-10-09T03:22:56 < aandrew> and some of the prices are just "lol rite"
2020-10-09T03:23:06 < aandrew> "$549 + $500 shipping"
2020-10-09T03:24:12 < aandrew> https://www.ebay.ca/sch/m.html?item=233336847777&_ssn=oberfrank&_pgn=7&_skc=1200&rt=nc
2020-10-09T03:24:19 < aandrew> just browsing this guy's store, so much shit and so overpriced
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2020-10-09T04:19:03 < brdb> if i have a screen size of 320x240, accounting for red-green-blue would the math be 320*240*3*8 for bytes? i think each bit sets the brightness of the pixel if i understand LCDs correctly
2020-10-09T04:19:40 < brdb> sorry for bits
2020-10-09T04:19:53 < brdb> 320*240*3 for bytes
2020-10-09T04:19:57 < brdb> i think
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2020-10-09T04:24:52 < aandrew> brdb: l x w = pixels, x bpp gives you bits per pixel
2020-10-09T04:25:13 < aandrew> so if it's monochrome it's 1bpp so l x w
2020-10-09T04:26:04 < aandrew> but if it's 565  or someshit then it's x16 for bits (/8 for bytes)
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2020-10-09T04:44:16 < brdb> d'oh, right
2020-10-09T04:44:53 < brdb> thanks aandrew 
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2020-10-09T04:53:20 < aandrew> brdb: with 888 you might x32 depending on packing
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2020-10-09T04:55:58 < brdb> ah crud that's right, cause 24bpp means the last 8 are just womp unless the LTDC is smart
2020-10-09T04:56:12 < brdb> by womp i mean padded with 0s
2020-10-09T04:56:28 < brdb> i'd imagine the LTDC does this since you can configure it for RGB888
2020-10-09T04:57:53 < brdb> gonna add jumpers to see if i can get away without using external memory (FSMC) since there's quite a few collissions on the stm32f429 until I go up to the LQFP208 package. i'd like to avoid BGA if i can
2020-10-09T04:58:29 < brdb> worst case i finally get around to modifying some toaster oven for a reflow oven and hope all the balls are soldered
2020-10-09T05:40:44 < Cracki> if you come across "overscan", you've entered "real" video signal territory
2020-10-09T05:41:27 < Cracki> for some reason I have to tell my ancient nvidia gpu about it when I need it to do QHD over HDMI and the display to understand it
2020-10-09T05:45:36 < dongs> brdb, LTDC requires minimum 144pin package i thought
2020-10-09T05:46:00 < dongs> ST bga is retarded, the pitch is too small to do anything useful
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2020-10-09T07:09:08 < brdb> dongs: could be, will find out the hard way
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2020-10-09T08:37:46 < qyx> wtf is this
2020-10-09T08:37:46 < qyx> sequencer.c:243:20: warning: iteration 512 invokes undefined behavior [-Waggressive-loop-optimizations]
2020-10-09T08:39:38 < qyx> https://paste.jvnv.net/view/HZnJZ
2020-10-09T08:39:49 < qyx> oh me dumb
2020-10-09T08:39:52 < qyx> thank you, duck
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2020-10-09T09:11:52 < Steffanx> Haha qyx.
2020-10-09T09:14:51 < mawk> we been ducks
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2020-10-09T10:34:06 < c10ud> how on earth two somehow compatible sfp xceivers would present a different behaviour when the net is under (small) load?
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2020-10-09T10:34:33 < c10ud> like board A with old sfp xceiver, disconnect and reconnect fiber, everything's fine
2020-10-09T10:34:56 < c10ud> board B, same mac same everything except new sfp xceiver, disconnect and reconnect fiber, nothing happens
2020-10-09T10:35:29 < c10ud> if network has no load, they both connect well
2020-10-09T10:35:40 < c10ud> and with connect i mean just the link led coming up
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2020-10-09T11:00:11 < Cracki> something is broken and you don't have enough info (yet) to narrow it down
2020-10-09T11:01:46 < c10ud> in other words, water's wet (?)
2020-10-09T11:05:25 < Cracki> true
2020-10-09T11:06:04 < Cracki> "somehow compatible" xceivers is already implying they aren't identical, so them behaving differently shouldn't come as a surprise
2020-10-09T11:06:59 < Cracki> "same everything" meaning it's still a different board that could have _some_ defect, or any firmware is slightly different
2020-10-09T11:07:48 < Cracki> how about you plug new xc into board A and old xc into B
2020-10-09T11:13:58 < c10ud> well I cant, they're somehow COTS boards
2020-10-09T11:14:26 < c10ud> and they're quite simple actually, hence why I'm saying it's the xceiver fault
2020-10-09T11:14:34 < c10ud> there's a single marvell and the xceivers
2020-10-09T11:15:28 -!- Streaker is now known as password3
2020-10-09T11:16:19 < Steffanx> How many nicks do you have password3 
2020-10-09T11:16:39 < password3> my nicks are legion!
2020-10-09T11:27:28 < Cracki> have you ever streaked though https://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=streaking
2020-10-09T11:30:28 -!- password3 is now known as Streaker
2020-10-09T11:39:43 < Steffanx> No Indians dont do that
2020-10-09T11:45:02 < Steffanx> https://www.wsj.com/articles/amd-is-in-advanced-talks-to-buy-xilinx-11602205553 lol
2020-10-09T11:46:05 < effractur> would be cool
2020-10-09T11:46:21 < effractur> at least amd can actually intergrate them quite easy 
2020-10-09T11:49:52 < Cracki> so... amd will own xilinx, and nvidia will own arm, and then zynq...
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2020-10-09T11:51:52 < Cracki> what's next, intel buys up riscv companies? >_>
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2020-10-09T12:19:10 < zyp> intel already bought altera
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2020-10-09T12:21:52 < Cracki> nvidia doesn't own a fpga company yet does it
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2020-10-09T12:22:43 < Cracki> amd and intel have their own "mobile" processor designs, they wouldn't need to buy mobile/embedded designs/companies
2020-10-09T12:23:12 < Cracki> amd needs to buy something that competes with mellanox
2020-10-09T12:23:42 < effractur> amd already has there own interconnect
2020-10-09T12:23:45 < effractur> that is quite okay
2020-10-09T12:23:54 < effractur> infifabric works quite well
2020-10-09T12:24:52 < effractur> that is afaik 50gbit/s per link
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2020-10-09T14:59:31 < Steffanx> Welcome jpa- 
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2020-10-09T15:53:53 < qyx> hah https://i.imgur.com/7xshuHY.png
2020-10-09T15:54:12 < qyx> abusing grafana heatmap to display spectrum waterfall
2020-10-09T15:55:41 < qyx> I have to fix LoRaWAN though
2020-10-09T15:59:26 < Cracki> that thing seems to subdivide the upper graph in 5 vertical divs with no round numbers on the ticks/grid lines
2020-10-09T16:05:18 < qyx> yeah because frequency bins 0-255 are mapped to 0-55 Hz, so not very round
2020-10-09T16:05:31 < qyx> eh 0-22.5 Hz
2020-10-09T16:05:47 < qyx> fuk 0-27.5 Hz
2020-10-09T16:05:50 < qyx> on the third try
2020-10-09T16:11:53 < zyp> https://bin.jvnv.net/file/0K9mv.png
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2020-10-09T16:18:49 < jpa-> zyp: did you buy a thermal camera?
2020-10-09T16:20:21 < zyp> no, picked it up from the client today
2020-10-09T16:44:40 < zyp> first part of this project is to get this SoM thing talking to the camera, which is a fun part on its own since the camera talks some shitty proprietary protocol and the official SDK is windows only or something
2020-10-09T16:44:57 < zyp> (GigE Vision)
2020-10-09T16:46:00 < PaulFertser> Are you supposed to RE it?
2020-10-09T16:46:04 < zyp> apparently a proprietary standard, that a bunch of vendors all do different takes on
2020-10-09T16:46:21 < zyp> nah, that's already done by somebody else
2020-10-09T16:46:51 < zyp> it's just… yeah: https://github.com/AravisProject/aravis/issues/418
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2020-10-09T16:48:26 < zyp> so far my impression is that it has decent support for the video transfer itself, problem is just that the registers don't match across all devices
2020-10-09T16:49:09 < zyp> https://github.com/AravisProject/aravis/blob/master/src/arvcamera.c#L921 <- so there's a bunch of switch statements in the source
2020-10-09T16:49:48 < zyp> currently I got it going just by commenting out a bunch of code trying to access registers this thing doesn't have
2020-10-09T16:51:57 < zyp> at the moment I'm figuring out how to get bitbake to apply the patch doing that :p
2020-10-09T16:52:40 < PaulFertser> .bbappend file which references your patch named *.patch
2020-10-09T16:53:56 < PaulFertser> Basically, two lines: one adding THISDIR/PN to the list of directories to consider, and another appending file:///<patchname.patch>
2020-10-09T16:54:15 < zyp> I just added it to the original recipe .bb, since I wrote that as well
2020-10-09T16:54:23 < PaulFertser> :)
2020-10-09T16:54:27 < zyp> but it doesn't seem to be applying properly
2020-10-09T16:54:40 < c10ud> zyp, I went with the gst plugin route
2020-10-09T16:54:41 < PaulFertser> bitbake -v -c compile <yourrecipe>
2020-10-09T16:54:45 < zyp> log says it did, but the files appears unchanged
2020-10-09T16:54:53 < PaulFertser> And you should see what it did
2020-10-09T16:54:56 < zyp> c10ud, what gst plugin?
2020-10-09T16:55:24 < c10ud> https://github.com/joshdoe/gst-plugins-vision
2020-10-09T16:55:46 < c10ud> but the device has to provide the low level lib
2020-10-09T16:55:58 < c10ud> (may depend on the vendor though)
2020-10-09T16:56:02 < zyp> ah, yeah, I looked at that
2020-10-09T16:56:10 < zyp> no FLIR though
2020-10-09T16:56:32 < zyp> aravis also provides a gst plugin, which is what I'm poking at
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2020-10-09T16:58:16 < PaulFertser> For testing you can also apply the patch manually and then use -f -c compile, and it should build you a package with your changes. Won't last -c clean of course.
2020-10-09T16:58:43 < zyp> hmm, I'm just gonna try doing a cleanall and start over
2020-10-09T16:58:44 < PaulFertser> It's often faster to just change some code in-place without creating a patch when investigating.
2020-10-09T16:58:53 < zyp> good point
2020-10-09T16:59:03 < PaulFertser> "-c clean" should be enough, and you see everything that's actually performed with -v
2020-10-09T16:59:55 < PaulFertser> And bitbake is nice to keep warning you that you used -f on a specific recipe till you clean it.
2020-10-09T17:01:19 < zyp> oh, fuck, I'm dumb
2020-10-09T17:01:37 < zyp> forgot to save the fucking patch file, so it ran on an empty file :p
2020-10-09T17:01:41 < PaulFertser> Maybe just happy
2020-10-09T17:03:43 < qyx> zyp: there was something for linux for GigE
2020-10-09T17:03:54 < zyp> other than aravis?
2020-10-09T17:04:03 < qyx> sry I don't remember
2020-10-09T17:04:08 < qyx> it was ~5y ago
2020-10-09T17:04:26 < qyx> but probably yeah, I don't recognize aravis
2020-10-09T17:04:26 < c10ud> btw my current mood with gige is: let's just mipicsi2 everything
2020-10-09T17:04:38 < zyp> probably doesn't matter, aravis seems decent enough I don't think anything better exists
2020-10-09T17:04:39 < c10ud> even though it kind of works..
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2020-10-09T17:56:05 < karlp> what on earth is wrong with gige that mipicsi2 is a solution you're even considering?!
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2020-10-09T18:53:17 < karlp> ok, jumpered the dac channels and just turned off channel 2. no more problems :)
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2020-10-09T19:26:42 < zyp> https://bin.jvnv.net/file/3Rn9V.jpg shit works
2020-10-09T19:31:11 < Steffanx> Aaaaaaaaah
2020-10-09T19:31:20 < Cracki> hawt
2020-10-09T19:32:00 < Cracki> variscite is the thing that kills vars
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2020-10-09T19:34:24 < zyp> that gstreamer pipeline takes about a third of a core, wonder how much cpu I'll use when I actually start doing something useful with that data
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2020-10-09T19:53:24 < englishman> cool
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2020-10-09T20:37:56 < invzim> yay
2020-10-09T20:39:00 < Cracki> what are you planning to do with the IR picture?
2020-10-09T20:41:04 < Cracki> 1 ghz dual core A7 + 200 mhz M4, that oughta be enough for some image processing
2020-10-09T20:52:12 < zyp> NDA doesn't allow me to say
2020-10-09T20:52:55 < qyx> does it allow you to say whats the fine if you say?
2020-10-09T20:54:26 < zyp> haha, that sounds like an american thing
2020-10-09T20:55:44 < zyp> client said «treat this as if it's under NDA», so I'm just applying common sense
2020-10-09T20:56:10 < qyx> hah
2020-10-09T20:58:12 < zyp> I can tell you it's not covid related :p
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2020-10-09T21:02:22 < PaulFertser> You can tell if you're going to develop some simple OpenCV detector or if you'll need to train a neural network probably.
2020-10-09T21:04:36 < zyp> the former, I hope :)
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2020-10-09T21:07:15 < Cracki> ¯\_(ツ)_/¯ NDAs are weird
2020-10-09T21:07:47 < Cracki> this is just an IR cam, it doesn't look like it has multiple channels or whatever's needed to guess the spectrum
2020-10-09T21:08:39 < Cracki> I had _some_ dealings with a thermo cam. nobody bothered explaining to me how it works. it's a magical black box that spits out temperature pixels
2020-10-09T21:09:06 < Cracki> best I can remember was some emissivity that needs calibrating or not, and that skin has near 100% while metals are low
2020-10-09T21:10:02 < PaulFertser> There's also a black body box for calibration.
2020-10-09T21:10:04 < Cracki> "temperature" should be a property of the spectrum (black body ration), independent of the intensity
2020-10-09T21:10:06 < zyp> it's impressively sensitive <- this is what happens if I put my hand on the desk for a second
2020-10-09T21:10:46 < qyx> I can't see anything
2020-10-09T21:10:47 < Cracki> ye it likely can resolve small fractions of a degree
2020-10-09T21:10:48 < zyp> missed the link: https://bin.jvnv.net/file/C4BVA.png
2020-10-09T21:10:56 < qyx> noice
2020-10-09T21:11:00 < karlp> sweet
2020-10-09T21:11:09 < zyp> picks up footprints on the floor just from normal walking too
2020-10-09T21:11:15 < Cracki> hm I guess this _could_ be good enough to measure temperature
2020-10-09T21:11:31 < PaulFertser> zyp: do you wear a metal ring on your finger?
2020-10-09T21:11:36 < zyp> yes
2020-10-09T21:11:59 < PaulFertser> I thought it's an odd thing to do.
2020-10-09T21:12:06 < Cracki> ... I think those things don't figure temp from the distribution of the spectrum but actually by the intensity, which does correlate with temperature
2020-10-09T21:12:13 < Cracki> lol
2020-10-09T21:12:19 < Cracki> odd to wear a wedding ring
2020-10-09T21:12:19 < PaulFertser> Metal conducts.
2020-10-09T21:12:39 < PaulFertser> A conductive thing near electronics, yes, odd.
2020-10-09T21:12:44 < Cracki> it's always in contact with the skin so it shouldn't be any trouble ESD wise
2020-10-09T21:13:05 < antto> unless you handle some board with power in it
2020-10-09T21:13:08 < PaulFertser> True, but it can accidentally short something.
2020-10-09T21:13:12 < Cracki> at most you could short something if the ring touches multiple exposed metal things
2020-10-09T21:13:20 < Cracki> granted
2020-10-09T21:13:25 < PaulFertser> Of course, why would one want to wear one?
2020-10-09T21:13:27 < Cracki> wear gloves :D
2020-10-09T21:13:32 < antto> MEH
2020-10-09T21:13:34 < PaulFertser> Risks increasing but what's the profit?
2020-10-09T21:13:51 < Cracki> profit
2020-10-09T21:13:53 < antto> put the ring on ur.. hm
2020-10-09T21:14:02 < Cracki> switch rings to collar and leash
2020-10-09T21:14:10 < Cracki> makes the inherent asymmetry of marriage obvious
2020-10-09T21:14:42 < antto> "fetch me a furr coat.. gud boi"
2020-10-09T21:14:44 < zyp> let's not devolve into misogynism
2020-10-09T21:15:32 < Cracki> wat
2020-10-09T21:16:00 < Cracki> you'll note how what I said can be read however you like
2020-10-09T21:16:27 < Cracki> and antto's line could even be interpreted as gay furries
2020-10-09T21:16:34 < antto> eh, wut
2020-10-09T21:16:39 < Cracki> examine your prejudices :D
2020-10-09T21:16:53 < zyp> whatever, let's talk about cool tech instead
2020-10-09T21:17:02 < antto> okay
2020-10-09T21:17:02 < Cracki> *hand emoji*
2020-10-09T21:17:05 < antto> eye-oh-tea
2020-10-09T21:17:06 < Cracki> *flame*
2020-10-09T21:18:37 < antto> cloud kompewting
2020-10-09T21:19:09 < antto> wee-fee module
2020-10-09T21:19:23 < aandrew> wee-fee, you are French?
2020-10-09T21:19:23 < antto> do these make your heart feel warm?
2020-10-09T21:19:28 < Cracki> finally! https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stefan%E2%80%93Boltzmann_law
2020-10-09T21:19:34 < antto> aandrew, quite not
2020-10-09T21:19:36 < Cracki> so it's to the _fourth_ power
2020-10-09T21:19:43 < Cracki> waifu module
2020-10-09T21:19:59 < Cracki> *fai
2020-10-09T21:20:26 < antto> hmmm
2020-10-09T21:20:36 < antto> was that an accidental typo?
2020-10-09T21:20:46 < Cracki> what do you think
2020-10-09T21:20:55 < Cracki> hint: I'm in a good mood
2020-10-09T21:21:14 < antto> forged typo
2020-10-09T21:21:20 < Steffanx> I can help you with that Cracki
2020-10-09T21:21:23 < zyp> the thermal image of the lcd on the devkit is interesting, it's both emitting heat and giving reflections due to the glossy surface
2020-10-09T21:21:26 < Cracki> fourth power is quite severe
2020-10-09T21:21:59 < Cracki> do what you must, Steffanx. I know this place is run by autocrats with unpredictable whims.
2020-10-09T21:22:15 < brdb> any recommendations on interfacing the stm32 via wifi? the espressif stuff just all seems so chock full of vulns i'm hesitant to even try it out
2020-10-09T21:22:20 < Cracki> yeah you can use sheet metal as thermal mirrors
2020-10-09T21:22:39 < Cracki> can't see anything in visible light but in thermo
2020-10-09T21:22:59 < Steffanx> unpredictable is the best, Cracki
2020-10-09T21:23:14 < Cracki> can even be dull sheet metal. IR is longer wavelength so the surface roughness still mirrors that better than visible light
2020-10-09T21:23:22 < Cracki> unpredictable is psychopathic
2020-10-09T21:23:30 < antto> do ya get anything interesting from these thermal cameras if u slap a polarized filt0r?
2020-10-09T21:23:32 < qyx> noo
2020-10-09T21:23:37 < antto> or does it block everything then
2020-10-09T21:23:45 < zyp> good question
2020-10-09T21:23:47 < Cracki> brdb, I think dongs could advise you
2020-10-09T21:24:01 < antto> zyp, my questions are always gud
2020-10-09T21:24:04 < karlp> lua being... wat? https://paste.jvnv.net/view/32j8C
2020-10-09T21:24:07 < Cracki> he recently said standalone china chips + stm32 are easier to handle than TI shit or whatever else there is
2020-10-09T21:24:13 < brdb> Cracki oh good i like dongs
2020-10-09T21:24:16 < karlp> why do I onyl get one 4, but two 5s?!
2020-10-09T21:24:23 < Cracki> so I herd you liek dongs
2020-10-09T21:24:53 < antto> zyp, i guess it can be simplified to "does it see thru glass" cuz afaik the polarized filter is some fancy glass
2020-10-09T21:25:02 < Cracki> if I had to guess I'd say you could remove reflections from surfaces with a polarization filter, same as with visible light
2020-10-09T21:25:24 < zyp> Cracki, I'd guess so too
2020-10-09T21:25:26 < brdb> a matte black rattle can will fix that for you in a hurry
2020-10-09T21:25:42 < Cracki> rattle
2020-10-09T21:25:47 < brdb> spray paint
2020-10-09T21:25:50 < Cracki> ic
2020-10-09T21:25:56 < brdb> colloquialism
2020-10-09T21:26:16 < Cracki> yes, matte surfaces are what beginners in image processing never have, they always fight with reflections
2020-10-09T21:26:44 < Cracki> *takes a rattle snake to spray tag your walls*
2020-10-09T21:26:58 < karlp> brdb: which vulns are you talking about that are not just in demo sw stafcks?
2020-10-09T21:29:14 < qyx> karlp: :D
2020-10-09T21:29:18 < brdb> looks like most of the vulns require physical access upon further reading
2020-10-09T21:29:43 < qyx> couldn't it be some screwed output buffer voodoo?
2020-10-09T21:30:15 < karlp> qyx: yeah, just.. wat.  I don't even know hwat to look for to describe wtf it's doing.
2020-10-09T21:36:40 < Cracki> zyp, that cam must have more than 8 bits for it to resolve better than a degree of difference. I took the stefan-boltzmann formula and plugging in room temp, 1K diff is 1.3% intensity diff. resolving 0.1K at room temp would require ~9.5 bits, 0.01K is ~12.9 bits
2020-10-09T21:38:16 < zyp> datasheet says 0.05C @30C
2020-10-09T21:38:57 < Cracki> this could do biometry. extract blood vessels
2020-10-09T21:39:15 < zyp> not sure what the sensor does, but the interface lets me select 8bit or 14bit
2020-10-09T21:39:24 < Cracki> 14, nice
2020-10-09T21:43:20 < Cracki> 14 bits in a good "exposure bracket" should give you 0.005K/count. i guess they account for noise too
2020-10-09T21:45:02 < Cracki> I'm guessing it can vary exposure time. if it can't, that'd give a hard limit for maximum temperature
2020-10-09T21:45:37 < zyp> idk
2020-10-09T21:46:12 < zyp> I tried the windows app earlier today, seemed to saturate around 170C (looking at hot solder iron)
2020-10-09T21:46:53 < zyp> but it doesn't seem to expose much in the way of settings, and the camera has tons
2020-10-09T21:47:15 < Cracki> ah there we go. assuming 170C is the upper limit, that's ~factor 5 more range than just going to 30C
2020-10-09T21:47:52 < Cracki> (so 0.025K/count if that's the range)
2020-10-09T21:47:59 < Cracki> this is entertaining
2020-10-09T21:48:48 < zyp> I'll start playing with settings later
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2020-10-09T21:49:41 < zyp> a nice part about gige vision is that it's kinda self documenting, you can query the camera for an xml describing all registers
2020-10-09T21:49:48 < zyp> it's >15k lines
2020-10-09T21:50:03 < BrainDamage> the pixels btw are either microbolometer or more typically thermocouples
2020-10-09T21:50:22 < BrainDamage> being super-tiny they have low thermal capacitance so they can have high response times
2020-10-09T21:50:29 < BrainDamage> so the pixels are literally thermometers
2020-10-09T21:50:49 < zyp> nice
2020-10-09T21:52:34 < Cracki> lol 15k lines of xml
2020-10-09T21:53:04 < Cracki> ok that seems to imply no "exposure time" or does it
2020-10-09T21:54:01 < BrainDamage> you can make a shutter using eg a pockels cell, or just subtract the baseline periodically
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2020-10-09T21:55:21 < Cracki> TIL pockels effect. physics is marvelous.
2020-10-09T21:55:59 < Cracki> >Birefringence is the optical property of a material having a refractive index that depends on the polarization and propagation direction of light. 
2020-10-09T21:57:07 < BrainDamage> the classic one is the calcite crystals, you'll see a split image with unpolarized light
2020-10-09T21:57:13 < Cracki> I was assuming it's working like a normal camera, collecting photons and measuring the charge collected, repeatedly. sounds like it's more of a steady state thing
2020-10-09T21:57:31 < Cracki> *measuring and clearing
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2020-10-09T21:59:33 < BrainDamage> oh and if you want a crazy application of pockels cells, look at Q-switched lasers
2020-10-09T21:59:59 < BrainDamage> it's lazors that are commercially available even on ebay, peak power in the kW range, average douzens or so
2020-10-09T22:00:00 < Cracki> r u a doctor of physics
2020-10-09T22:00:18 < BrainDamage> nope, EE
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2020-10-09T22:00:24 < BrainDamage> but i studied lazors
2020-10-09T22:00:35 < BrainDamage> and solid state physics
2020-10-09T22:00:54 < Cracki> much wizardry to the uninitiated
2020-10-09T22:01:07 < BrainDamage> and RF
2020-10-09T22:01:12 < Cracki> >modulating the intracavity losses and thus the Q factor of the laser resonator.
2020-10-09T22:01:24 < BrainDamage> I studied stuff to design IC, even if I'm not doing nothing remotely related
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2020-10-09T22:31:42 < jadew> I finally finished the project that got me back into electronics 15 years ago
2020-10-09T22:35:11 < Steffanx> the picologger clone?
2020-10-09T22:35:47 < jadew> close
2020-10-09T22:37:24 < jadew> http://188.26.15.195/stuff/20201009_223210.jpg
2020-10-09T22:38:15 < aandrew> it took you 15y to get temp/humi on an I2C OLED? man I thought I worked slow on my home projects. :-)
2020-10-09T22:38:19 < Cracki> 15 years ago it got you back into electronics?
2020-10-09T22:38:44 < jadew> yeah, I wanted a thermometer
2020-10-09T22:39:14 < Cracki> thermometer goes where? https://live.staticflickr.com/3151/2966627954_a20e33e140.jpg
2020-10-09T22:39:16 < jadew> might have been longer tho
2020-10-09T22:39:24 < jadew> haha Cracki 
2020-10-09T22:39:59 < jadew> actually I wanted to make an USB thermometer, which prompted me to get out my ghetto programming boards
2020-10-09T22:40:20 < Cracki> some dude gave me one of those temp+humidity sensors at an electronics/hw hacking meetup. I stuck it in a protoboard along with an arduino and plugged that into my internet of shit raspi
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2020-10-09T22:40:40 < Cracki> I'm sure it could go directly onto the raspi but cba
2020-10-09T22:40:52 < jadew> yeah, they're super easy to use
2020-10-09T22:41:11 < jadew> actually all the code that went into this, I wrote 8 years ago
2020-10-09T22:41:41 < jadew> I just put it together because I needed to measure the RH
2020-10-09T22:41:56 < jadew> (and didn't want to wait for a commercial thermometer)
2020-10-09T22:41:57 < Cracki> ye comparing library to library, or NIH to NIH, display control is probably more complex than reading those sensors
2020-10-09T22:42:16 < jadew> and my son was intrigued by the idea so we built it together
2020-10-09T22:42:26 < Cracki> I didn't even bother reading the datashit I think, just arduino library and done
2020-10-09T22:42:29 < Cracki> hehe
2020-10-09T22:42:32 < Cracki> kids are awesome
2020-10-09T22:43:03 < Cracki> they aren't depressed and burned out yet, kinda like a prosthesis for "drive"
2020-10-09T22:44:00 < jadew> we can probably be like that too
2020-10-09T22:44:11 < jadew> poor guy had a class mate who got covid
2020-10-09T22:44:19 < Cracki> electro shock de-depressor
2020-10-09T22:44:26 < jadew> whole school got shut down
2020-10-09T22:44:31 < Cracki> whole school even
2020-10-09T22:44:46 < BrainDamage> here they just test the whole classroom
2020-10-09T22:45:15 < jadew> they're in isolation for 2 weeks
2020-10-09T22:45:20 < Cracki> in all of germany we had _one_ death in the 0-10 range over 10k infections
2020-10-09T22:45:33 < Cracki> boo
2020-10-09T22:45:46 < aandrew> yeah we homeschool our kids, fuck sending them to school to get shittier education and 'rona
2020-10-09T22:45:48 < BrainDamage> the danger is not the kids getting sick, it's them spreading to the parents/grandparents at home
2020-10-09T22:45:51 < jadew> well, tbh, I'm not sure I'm going to take him back to school once the two weeks are over
2020-10-09T22:45:56 < jadew> yeah
2020-10-09T22:46:03 < aandrew> how old is he?
2020-10-09T22:46:04 < Cracki> here, returning travelers go into 14 day quarantine too, but they get a free test upon entry, and if that shows negative, quarantine is over
2020-10-09T22:46:10 < Cracki> test takes a few days
2020-10-09T22:46:13 < jadew> and I think the upcoming flu season is going to get replaced by the covid season this year
2020-10-09T22:46:21 < jadew> so I expect lots of new infections in schools
2020-10-09T22:46:27 < jadew> aandrew, he's 7
2020-10-09T22:46:38 < Cracki> make sure these kids get enough socialization with their peers
2020-10-09T22:46:52 < jadew> Cracki, they wouldn't get that in school either
2020-10-09T22:46:56 < BrainDamage> I took a free serum test today because I'm a frequent guest of a medical facility, it was encouraged and I was glad to take it for free
2020-10-09T22:46:56 < jadew> the rules are very strict
2020-10-09T22:47:02 < aandrew> jadew: he's old enough to poke around online to find shit to do. lots on khan and there are dozens of other sites
2020-10-09T22:47:04 < jadew> they can't play too much together (if at all)
2020-10-09T22:47:07 < Cracki> I was mostly home instead of at kindergarten and that might not have been too good
2020-10-09T22:47:17 < Cracki> wat no socializing in school?
2020-10-09T22:47:28 < jadew> aandrew, yeah, there's plenty to do at home
2020-10-09T22:47:44 < aandrew> and he's got a full lab to practice his electronics and programming in
2020-10-09T22:47:51 < Cracki> eh true.
2020-10-09T22:47:59 < aandrew> my kids were always way more inot cardboard boxes and hot melt glue and magic markers
2020-10-09T22:48:08 < aandrew> toys were almost universally a waste of money
2020-10-09T22:48:26 < Cracki> toys are just raw material waiting to be molded
2020-10-09T22:48:34 < BrainDamage> melted*
2020-10-09T22:48:38 < aandrew> so I spend a small fortune on scotch tape, duct tape, hot melt glue sticks and xacto blades. :-)
2020-10-09T22:48:39 < jadew> BrainDamage, how much does the test cost in Italy? it's ~100 EUR here.
2020-10-09T22:48:49 < BrainDamage> 120
2020-10-09T22:48:50 < Cracki> no, molded. smash with hammer. no heat required.
2020-10-09T22:48:54 < aandrew> holy fuckballs that is expensive
2020-10-09T22:49:09 < BrainDamage> that's the serum test, not the swab
2020-10-09T22:49:17 < aandrew> if I want to pay out of pocket it's under CAD$100 here but you can get them free 
2020-10-09T22:49:21 < BrainDamage> the swab is 60
2020-10-09T22:49:28 < Cracki> what does serum imply? testing for bits of the virus, or for antibodies?
2020-10-09T22:49:33 < Cracki> ah
2020-10-09T22:49:36 < BrainDamage> antibodies
2020-10-09T22:49:44 < aandrew> oh I have to check that; I still think it's under CAD$100; I just had my son's IGF tested which is not covered by the provincial health care and it was $90
2020-10-09T22:49:48 < Cracki> I'd like to get antibody test too but I'm not gonna pay for that
2020-10-09T22:49:51 < jadew> BrainDamage, serum meaning needles?
2020-10-09T22:49:59 < BrainDamage> yes, it's blood serum
2020-10-09T22:50:08 < jadew> right, the swab is 100 here
2020-10-09T22:50:22 < Cracki> what can 100 local coin buy?
2020-10-09T22:50:29 < jadew> 100 EUR
2020-10-09T22:50:32 < Steffanx> 1 big mac
2020-10-09T22:50:40 < jadew> that's like... 2 big mac
2020-10-09T22:50:42 < Cracki> 100 bucks for a swab is somewhat outrageous
2020-10-09T22:50:53 < Cracki> wat 50 eur per big mac?
2020-10-09T22:50:54 < jadew> yeah...
2020-10-09T22:51:03 < jadew> Cracki, I'm kidding about the big mac
2020-10-09T22:51:14 < jadew> I think you can get 20 big macs for 100 EUR
2020-10-09T22:51:20 < Cracki> money is all make believe anyway
2020-10-09T22:51:59 < jadew> oh well, time for my vitamin D
2020-10-09T22:52:01 < Cracki> what are the local prices for a gram of weed? I think those are rather stable. around here, it is 10 bucks and it has been 10 bucks 10 years ago
2020-10-09T22:52:36 < BrainDamage> argentina manipulated the big mac prices to foil it being used as metric for inflation
2020-10-09T22:52:36 < jadew> so the price has gone down
2020-10-09T22:52:48 < jadew> lol
2020-10-09T22:52:49 < Cracki> subsidized fast food
2020-10-09T22:52:56 < Cracki> fuck yeah communism
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2020-10-09T22:53:14 < Cracki> wait, is argentina communist or just a despotic country
2020-10-09T22:53:33 < jadew> they made some steps towards communism
2020-10-09T22:53:36 < jadew> didn't fully commit
2020-10-09T22:53:45  * Cracki googles politics of big mac^W^Wargentina
2020-10-09T22:53:50 < jadew> but they destroyed the economy nonetheless
2020-10-09T22:54:02 < aandrew> fucking banggood, I am done buying stuff from them
2020-10-09T22:54:10 < Steffanx> ok
2020-10-09T22:54:12 < Cracki> bangbad
2020-10-09T22:54:31 < aandrew> I'm used to aliexpress listings where option ABCD is different prices for different options, makes sense
2020-10-09T22:54:36 < aandrew> but banggood seems to take it to another shitty level
2020-10-09T22:54:38 < Cracki> aliex for technical stuff, banggood for cheap swag
2020-10-09T22:55:08 < aandrew> they had rs-x receivers for like $3 so I got a few. turns out it was JUST the antennas. neither the description nor pictures made that clear
2020-10-09T22:55:28 < aandrew> so instead of a decent deal on RS-X receivers, I got a shitty deal on some 3" runs of micro coax with u-fl
2020-10-09T22:55:37 < aandrew> and the ohter part of the shipment arrived today
2020-10-09T22:55:52 < Cracki> can you still request refund
2020-10-09T22:55:55 < aandrew> 86% off cheap chinesium cordless drills - so I bought 5
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2020-10-09T22:56:02 < Cracki> if that happened on aliex it'd be a 100% sure refund
2020-10-09T22:56:08 < englishman> zyp what kind of thermal camer as?
2020-10-09T22:56:11 < jadew> lol aandrew 
2020-10-09T22:56:15 < aandrew> I ended up with JUST the drill chucks (and a bunch of "export only" UK-US travel adapters, wtf?) 
2020-10-09T22:56:17 < englishman> microbolometer or something more interesting?
2020-10-09T22:56:27 < jadew> you got some for your friends? or you expect them not to last?
2020-10-09T22:56:44 < aandrew> and if you look more carefully option A is just the drill chucks which is $5, but the whole drill is $100, which isn't anywhere close to 86% off
2020-10-09T22:57:09 < zyp> englishman, idk, it's a FLIR A35
2020-10-09T22:57:10 < aandrew> Cracki: yeah I'll push back but it's just not worth my time to fuck around on that site, you've gotta be way more cautious than on ali
2020-10-09T22:57:15 < Cracki> i.e. "up to" 86% off on everything they lumped into the listing
2020-10-09T22:57:16 < englishman> ah
2020-10-09T22:57:56 < englishman> yes microbolometer
2020-10-09T22:58:10 < aandrew> ultimately it's my own fucking fault for not reading the fine print, oh well
2020-10-09T22:58:30 < englishman> I ask because I'm hoping in the next year to play with these cqd sensors
2020-10-09T22:59:31 < englishman> and there is a new tech I read about today where pyro arrays are integrated by a graphene fet then read out by a typical CMOS array so it's 3-20um bandwidth
2020-10-09T22:59:35 < BrainDamage> yes and no, that's a bit of scammer's motto, "it's the victim's fault for not paying attention", except when you're being intentionally deceptive
2020-10-09T22:59:48 < BrainDamage> then you're not doing business, you're trying to leech money
2020-10-09T23:00:13 < aandrew> BrainDamage: welcome to business in china
2020-10-09T23:01:00 < BrainDamage> yeah, their ethic is a bit odd in our views
2020-10-09T23:01:18 < aandrew> "poorly made in china" is a decent book
2020-10-09T23:01:24 < aandrew> I'm working my way through his second one
2020-10-09T23:02:03 < jadew> my favorite tactic is when they list one model in the title and a slightly different one in the description
2020-10-09T23:02:20 < jadew> and which one you get is a gamble, unless one is cheaper
2020-10-09T23:02:27 < jadew> then you know exactly which one you're going to get
2020-10-09T23:02:39 < aandrew> yep
2020-10-09T23:03:20 < aandrew> just like how cable vendors who sell spools of wire will always have "+/- 10% due to manufacturing tolerance" -- funny how that spool of wire is never > 100m or whatever they said it will be
2020-10-09T23:03:21 < BrainDamage> my personal favourite is the lithium batteries being branded with a fake capacity, so the model name is "2500mAh", the actual capacity ~1000mAh
2020-10-09T23:03:38 < aandrew> BrainDamage: yeah I'm always super fucking nervous to buy lithium shit on ali
2020-10-09T23:03:52 < aandrew> I mean i have a bunch but worried about pushing them
2020-10-09T23:05:15 < aandrew> I need to get a bunch of cinder blocks and put them in the backyard and build a load tester and tell the charger to try a 1C or 0.9C charge rate
2020-10-09T23:05:36 < BrainDamage> a ceramic bowl suffices
2020-10-09T23:06:07 < aandrew> we're talking about testing batteries, not smoking crack
2020-10-09T23:06:22 < BrainDamage> smoke the lithium vapors
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2020-10-09T23:09:15 < jadew> aandrew, I'm suspicious of all off-brand electronics that use lithium batteries
2020-10-09T23:10:58 < zyp> why bother with shitty lithium batteries when you can just buy somewhere more reputable?
2020-10-09T23:15:32 < antto> explosium batteries
2020-10-09T23:18:26 < ds2> battery capacity depends strongly on the discharge rate so the 2600mAH battery could be that but at 1mA or something silly
2020-10-09T23:18:27 < ds2> :D
2020-10-09T23:22:15 < antto> so then, before closing up the device, make sure there are no smol bulgarian minority ghetto folks in the enclosure
2020-10-09T23:31:30 < BrainDamage> ds2: no, the insertion does state that the capacity is 1000mAh in the tech spec table, but everywhere else instead there's "2500mAh" where it can be used ambiguously as a model name; often quoted too, so  "2500mAh" (sic)
2020-10-09T23:33:41 < Cracki> I recently saw a "gtx960" branded card that was an nvidia gtx 550
2020-10-09T23:33:52 < Cracki> they just didn't say NVIDIA gtx960
2020-10-09T23:34:11 < Cracki> those 6 glyphs aren't a trademark so ebay doesn't do shit about it
2020-10-09T23:44:38 < karlp> https://benaiah.me/posts/everything-you-didnt-want-to-know-about-lua-multivals/ calls it cutoff multivals. yay
--- Day changed Sat Oct 10 2020
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2020-10-10T00:10:48 < zyp> lua seems kinda awful all around
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2020-10-10T00:13:47 < aandrew> zyp: why do you say that? I'm no lua expert but it seemed pretty clean and approachable
2020-10-10T00:15:14 < zyp> I'm probably just biased and find it full of weird stuff I'm not used to
2020-10-10T00:15:24 < zyp> IIRC it's using 1-based indexing as well
2020-10-10T00:17:42 < Cracki> local function increment_each_value(first, ...) 
2020-10-10T00:17:50 < Cracki> shit pattern matching
2020-10-10T00:17:57 < Cracki> if passing nothing, first is falsy
2020-10-10T00:18:13 < Cracki> wat if non-empty but first element is actually falsy, instead of not there
2020-10-10T00:19:00 < zyp> you can't distinguish?
2020-10-10T00:19:09 < Cracki> that code doesn't anyway
2020-10-10T00:19:22 < Cracki> I'm sure it's doable and straight forward
2020-10-10T00:20:09 < zyp> looks like python's def foo(*args): …
2020-10-10T00:20:25 < zyp> that'll give you an array of arguments, empty array if none
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2020-10-10T00:20:44 < zyp> otherwise, the normal way of making optional arguments is def foo(x = None): …
2020-10-10T00:21:17 < zyp> where None is distinct from False
2020-10-10T00:24:13 < Cracki> python equiv would be def foo(first, *args): ... but that won't do with foo() or equivalently foo(*[])
2020-10-10T00:24:26 < Cracki> but yes you would check length and branch on that
2020-10-10T00:25:06 < Cracki> haskell would let you pattern match on the structure, foo [] = whatever; foo [x:xs] = something else -- i think that was the syntax can't remember
2020-10-10T00:25:13 < zyp> def foo(first = None, *args): … is valid
2020-10-10T00:25:14 < Cracki> could have been (x:xs)
2020-10-10T00:25:18 < Cracki> or that sure
2020-10-10T00:25:45 < Cracki> but then you do foo(None, 1, 2, 3) or foo(*[None, 1, 2, 3])
2020-10-10T00:26:04 < Cracki> not criticizing lua there, just that awful example
2020-10-10T00:26:19 < zyp> sure, that's valid
2020-10-10T00:26:51 < zyp> None means none and can legitimately be used to omit passing in meaningful arguments
2020-10-10T00:27:26 < zyp> i.e. passing None explicitly should have the same effect as omitting the argument
2020-10-10T00:28:20 < zyp> it typically happens when layering functions with optional arguments, top level function gets the default None and passes it down the stack
2020-10-10T00:29:31 < zyp> you could do foo(1, None, 3) to omit the second argument when calling, but generally when you need to do that you'd use named arguments instead and call foo(a = 1, c = 3)
2020-10-10T00:35:10 < Cracki> wait lua has named arguments too?
2020-10-10T00:35:31 < zyp> no, still python
2020-10-10T00:35:40 < zyp> idk what lua has
2020-10-10T00:35:42 < Cracki> heh, this says lua has them too
2020-10-10T00:35:57 < Cracki> I did lua in 2015/2016 and that was it
2020-10-10T00:36:03 < zyp> it's a nice feature to have
2020-10-10T00:36:08 < Cracki> oh fuck it has various syntaxes
2020-10-10T00:36:14 < qyx> I did lua on 2006 on a uni
2020-10-10T00:36:15 < Cracki> (...) and {...}
2020-10-10T00:36:17 < qyx> *in
2020-10-10T00:36:23 < Cracki> which passes an object or something
2020-10-10T00:36:30 < qyx> has it evolved much?
2020-10-10T00:36:44 < qyx> my debian has 6.3
2020-10-10T00:36:48 < qyx> 5.3
2020-10-10T00:36:54 < qyx> iirc it was 5.1 back then
2020-10-10T00:37:10 < Cracki> >_> python is my primary language, the only one I keep up with. i don't really care about lua, or c++ :>
2020-10-10T00:37:26 < Cracki> https://www.lua.org/versions.html
2020-10-10T00:38:08 < Cracki> >Lua 5.3 was released on 12 Jan 2015. Its main new features are integers, bitwise operators, a basic utf-8 library, and support for both 64-bit and 32-bit platforms.  
2020-10-10T00:38:10 < Cracki> lawl
2020-10-10T00:38:19 < qyx> heh they added goto in 2011
2020-10-10T00:38:30 < qyx> lol
2020-10-10T00:38:37 < qyx> yeah lua was all float, wasn't it?
2020-10-10T00:38:57 < Cracki> I wish python had goto. I'd use it all the time to annoy people and simultaneously make code more readable
2020-10-10T00:39:07 < Cracki> js was all float a long time too
2020-10-10T00:39:57 < Cracki> I think it's still the basic type and there aren't other types, except if you use arrays/buffers which are their own types/objects, and when you use webassembly or those weird number|0 constructs that hint integer-ness to the VM
2020-10-10T00:40:06 < Cracki> (basic number type)
2020-10-10T00:40:58 < Cracki> I think the next lua, 5.5, will be released around the year 2025
2020-10-10T00:41:22 < Cracki> for a minor release that's a long time
2020-10-10T00:41:28 < GenTooMan> sounds like the world ending release. :D
2020-10-10T00:41:56 < Cracki> pay no heed to doomsayers and their numerology
2020-10-10T00:42:18 < Cracki> they pull years out of their ass and then try to make them "a thing" that involves mass hysteria
2020-10-10T00:42:37 < Cracki> polar bears will not melt within the next 10 years
2020-10-10T00:43:45 < zyp> Cracki, the only semi-sane use of goto that I've seen are error paths for cleanup and stuff like that, and in a decent language there's better ways to go about that
2020-10-10T00:44:00 < Cracki> perhaps
2020-10-10T00:44:12 < Cracki> some of those "better ways" are just workarounds
2020-10-10T00:44:28 < Cracki> truth be told, if I could multi-break a nested loop, I'd probably be happy
2020-10-10T00:44:58 < zyp> I mean, the big one is that if you go with RAII everywhere, you don't need to do much in the way of manual cleanup
2020-10-10T00:45:05 < Laurenceb> I've used goto about twice
2020-10-10T00:45:24 < GenTooMan> you use goto when the alternative is worse 
2020-10-10T00:45:27 < Cracki> I'm not worried about cleanup. I'm worried about logic.
2020-10-10T00:45:37 < Laurenceb> very rarely it has a use
2020-10-10T00:45:44 < Laurenceb> but it can be useful
2020-10-10T00:45:56 < Cracki> I want comefrom
2020-10-10T00:46:17 < GenTooMan> a reference to the calling function?
2020-10-10T00:46:23 < Cracki> no
2020-10-10T00:46:24 < zyp> generally when I need to break out of nested loops, I prefer to structure the code so I can return directly from the inner loop
2020-10-10T00:46:52 < Cracki> comefrom is like goto+label, but switched. you put the label where you want to jump away from, and the comefrom you put where you want to jump to
2020-10-10T00:47:47 < Cracki> that thing plus branching/cases loses some of its appeal. it loses some madness.
2020-10-10T00:48:17 < Cracki> right but what if I have shit to do after breaking and before returning
2020-10-10T00:48:29 < Cracki> do a function for the loops? nah that's dumb
2020-10-10T00:48:44 < Cracki> would require sharing of variables either via instance or passed references
2020-10-10T00:49:04 < zyp> depends why you have nested loops in the first place
2020-10-10T00:50:27 < zyp> you could also make a nested iterator that you could iterate over with a single loop
2020-10-10T00:51:13 < Cracki> that's what I meant by "workaround"
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2020-10-10T00:51:38 < Cracki> most of those aren't clearly more sensible or less "moving parts"
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2020-10-10T00:52:46 < Cracki> besides, when prototyping I want all this "you're doing it wrong" to fuck off and die
2020-10-10T00:53:07 < Cracki> if python had macros, or even reader macros, I'd go wild
2020-10-10T00:53:33 < Cracki> its advantage is that it's popular, good, and hard to corrupt
2020-10-10T00:53:36 < zyp> what do you need macros for?
2020-10-10T00:53:54 < Cracki> same thing I need other freedoms for
2020-10-10T00:54:09 < zyp> https://paste.jvnv.net/view/hwh7F <- nested genexp
2020-10-10T00:54:10 < Cracki> imagine if you could pass an expression to a function, and you get the expression
2020-10-10T00:54:17 < Cracki> yeah sure
2020-10-10T00:54:28 < zyp> itertools.product does the same IIRC
2020-10-10T00:54:56 < Cracki> this is hard to explain if you don't know what my "influences" are. I've done a little lisp/scheme.
2020-10-10T00:54:59 < Cracki> lol
2020-10-10T00:55:05 < zyp> I mean, there are tricks to do that
2020-10-10T00:55:30 < Cracki> that line is rather harder to read than two for-loops
2020-10-10T00:55:48 < Cracki> itertools.product is the smart way to express this
2020-10-10T00:55:53 < Cracki> assuming the reader knows what it does
2020-10-10T00:56:25 < zyp> I mean, I do, IDGAF about anybody else when I pick what language I use
2020-10-10T00:56:35 < Cracki> also assuming the operation you used nested loops for isn't just ad hoc logic but a thing that deserves a name ("cartesian product")
2020-10-10T00:56:36 < PaulFertser> [(x,y) | x <- "abc", y <- "def"]
2020-10-10T00:56:57 < Cracki> ((x, y) for x in 'abc' for y in 'def')
2020-10-10T00:56:59 < Cracki> equivalent
2020-10-10T00:57:24 < PaulFertser> But you can do it lazily in Haskell
2020-10-10T00:57:29 < Cracki> python needs "piping", something like ((x, y) for x in 'abc' for y in 'def').each(print)
2020-10-10T00:57:51 < zyp> itertools and functools are both full of convenient stuff
2020-10-10T00:58:07 < Cracki> it doesnt have list.map, it has map(fn, list)
2020-10-10T00:58:24 < Cracki> and a chain of that is like h(g(f(thing)))
2020-10-10T00:58:43 < zyp> PaulFertser, it's lazy in python as well
2020-10-10T00:59:01 < Cracki> thing.f().g().h() if they were methods, would be preferable to me
2020-10-10T00:59:28 < Cracki> or "thing § f § g § h" with whatever operator
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2020-10-10T01:00:13 < Cracki> eager: [(x, y) for x in 'abc' for y in 'def'] or list(...)
2020-10-10T01:00:22 < zyp> wouldn't be surprised if functools had some shit that let you do foo(thing, f, g, h)
2020-10-10T01:01:03 < zyp> def foo(x, *funcs): for f in funcs: x = f(x); return x
2020-10-10T01:01:20 < Cracki> this you might want to know https://docs.python.org/3/whatsnew/3.8.html#positional-only-parameters
2020-10-10T01:01:24 < karlp> zyp: that article I linked to uses functions that I'd never even heard of, and gets upset aboutt them, and I'd never run into this truncated multtival in ... 6 or 7 years of lua now.
2020-10-10T01:01:32 < karlp> it's weird, but I kinda like it.
2020-10-10T01:01:33 < Cracki> lets you force keyword only or positional only arguments
2020-10-10T01:02:10 < zyp> yeah, I knew about the keyword only
2020-10-10T01:02:11 < Cracki> oh apparently 3.9 was released today
2020-10-10T01:02:17 < zyp> but the positional only was new to me
2020-10-10T01:02:34 < Cracki> yeah weird feature but ok
2020-10-10T01:03:01 < zyp> probably has its uses
2020-10-10T01:04:01 < zyp> «A further benefit of marking a parameter as positional-only is that it allows the parameter name to be changed in the future without risk of breaking client code.»
2020-10-10T01:04:03 < karlp> Cracki: lua "minor" versions are really major ones.
2020-10-10T01:04:06 < Cracki> 3.10 so far has no "killer features" except maybe annotations stuff https://docs.python.org/3.10/whatsnew/3.10.html
2020-10-10T01:04:26 < karlp> to tthe point of 5.2 being a dead end that no-one uses, and only 5.1 and 5.3 in common use
2020-10-10T01:04:45 < karlp> I was a python person until I tried running python scripts on small mips platforms
2020-10-10T01:04:55 < zyp> I'm not really keeping up on new features python is getting, I prefer writing code that works everywhere
2020-10-10T01:05:05 < Cracki> but walrus
2020-10-10T01:05:13 < karlp> and then was like, "eye am l33t C hakker" until I started actually trying to use C for general programming.
2020-10-10T01:05:16  * karlp hugs lua
2020-10-10T01:05:29 < Cracki> I'm somewhat excited for dictionary merge and update operators
2020-10-10T01:05:39 < zyp> i.e. I'd rather avoid something that requires a newer version than what's in current debian stable
2020-10-10T01:06:12 < zyp> karlp, I can see that
2020-10-10T01:06:14 < Cracki> before, if you wanted to "sum into" a dictionary, you could use that counter class they have, or diy, and diy would involve an update and maybe a copy depending on how you want it to act
2020-10-10T01:06:25 < zyp> karlp, my solution is to avoid small mips platforms
2020-10-10T01:06:44 < karlp> well, ... that's another option, but it was a lot less feasible an option 6-7 years ago
2020-10-10T01:06:59 < zyp> :)
2020-10-10T01:07:01 < karlp> these days, well, as I menttioned, I'm looking at some bigger bois...
2020-10-10T01:09:47 < fenugrec> how backwards compatible is lua ? say compared to py2.7 / py3
2020-10-10T01:10:30 < zyp> somehow I feel this SoM I'm currently working with is on the smaller side, «only» got 1GB ram
2020-10-10T01:10:56 < zyp> actually 8GB emmc, thought it was 4GB
2020-10-10T01:11:15 < zyp> not too bad then, but still :)
2020-10-10T01:12:07 < karlp> fenugrec: depends whether you used one or two corner cases or not.
2020-10-10T01:12:20 < karlp> for my own apps, completely transparent.
2020-10-10T01:12:50 < karlp> if you tried to get tricky and make your own "sandboxes" with setfenv, then you need to do some work.
2020-10-10T01:13:19 < karlp> yeah, I'm looking at 1GB min ram for a new board, and ideally 8GB min emmc
2020-10-10T01:13:30 < karlp> fuck sd cards right off, except for user data shit
2020-10-10T01:14:23 < karlp> I also like how straightforward it is to write lua bindings to c libs, 
2020-10-10T01:14:37 < zyp> have you tried python ctypes?
2020-10-10T01:15:06 < karlp> read the docs once, but never needed it.
2020-10-10T01:15:24 < karlp> someone else had normally already done it, and on places where I had python, it didn't matter how it performed, it was fast enough
2020-10-10T01:15:39 < karlp> with my platforms, a lua binding to a c-library I already have is very appealing.
2020-10-10T01:15:50 < karlp> even when people have done pure lua implemenations.
2020-10-10T01:16:04 < zyp> with ctypes, you can literally just open a .so/dll/dylib and call a function in it
2020-10-10T01:16:16 < zyp> assuming it has a simple signature
2020-10-10T01:16:50 < karlp> yeah, luajit offers that sort of thing via an extension it has, but I quite like being able to make things "nice" rather than just raw api calls, though it's better t han nothing of course.
2020-10-10T01:16:52 < zyp> with more complex arguments or return types you need to provide the signature
2020-10-10T01:17:20 < zyp> hehe
2020-10-10T01:18:08 < zyp> I had some people asking me a couple of months ago for the source of a tool I made some years ago
2020-10-10T01:18:58 < zyp> it relied on a «pyhidapi» wrapper for the hidapi library, and there's apparently three of them or so
2020-10-10T01:19:40 < zyp> none of them fit, but they were all close, so I went digging through the histories to see if some of them changed the API a bit
2020-10-10T01:20:44 < zyp> and then I found out I had made my own, prepared a nice package ready for publication and all, and then simply forgot about it
2020-10-10T01:20:48 < zyp> https://cgit.jvnv.net/pyhidapi/tree/
2020-10-10T01:20:56 < zyp> so now there's four pyhidapis :)
2020-10-10T01:22:50 < zyp> https://cgit.jvnv.net/pyhidapi/tree/pyhidapi/__init__.py <- around 40 lines of data structures/function signatures, and the rest are nice wrapper classes
2020-10-10T01:23:48 < Cracki> hideousapi
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2020-10-10T01:23:56 < Cracki> :P
2020-10-10T01:24:26 < Cracki> ctypes is nice indeed but if it's windows stuff there is pywin32 which wraps a lot already
2020-10-10T01:25:12 < zyp> yeah, sure
2020-10-10T01:25:37 < Cracki> cython is fun too
2020-10-10T01:25:52 < zyp> I'm saying ctypes are nice when you have to make bindings, not that it's so nice that you should use it instead of existing bindings
2020-10-10T01:26:10 < Cracki> you can (ab)use it to compile python scripts into C and then exe/dll/watever, in case you don't want to share the source
2020-10-10T01:26:30 < zyp> I haven't tried cython, but I did some stuff with boost.python way back
2020-10-10T01:26:47 < Cracki> ffmpeg has bindings called pyav, which are ctypes or cython, and it's a huge undertaking to turn ffmpeg's apis into something remotely pythonic
2020-10-10T01:27:03 < zyp> haha, I bet
2020-10-10T01:27:24 < zyp> I was just looking at how to deal with gstreamer in python earlier tonight
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2020-10-10T01:28:27 < zyp> not that I'm really planning to do this project in python, but I figure it'd be faster for prototyping
2020-10-10T01:30:14 < zyp> also not sure how much I'd be dealing with lowlevel gstreamer at all if I'm just gonna use it to feed data to opencv
2020-10-10T01:31:08 < zyp> especially if I skip that and just have aravis feed data directly into opencv
2020-10-10T01:32:44 < zyp> but gstreamer is useful for testing and proof of concept, I figure that'll give me a bunch of nice flexibility, like capturing data to a file and then feeding from file to opencv
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2020-10-10T01:43:37 < Cracki> gstreamer *shudder*
2020-10-10T01:43:46 < Cracki> it's a nice tool, and so is ffmpeg, but their apis...
2020-10-10T01:51:11 < zyp> I'm a bit surprised there's not a proper gui editor for graph building
2020-10-10T01:52:21 < Cracki> windows came with graphedit, then people rebuilt that. I keep seeing "boxes and wires" redone everywhere
2020-10-10T01:52:48 < zyp> apparently there was a gst-editor that died, and then somebody are working on a pipeviz but that doesn't look very mature yet
2020-10-10T01:53:02 < zyp> yeah, I think I used graphedit some time forever ago
2020-10-10T01:53:26 < qyx> flow graphs <3
2020-10-10T01:53:32 < zyp> I should probably try pipeviz
2020-10-10T01:53:43 < qyx> are TNC any good? I see them on professional gear
2020-10-10T01:53:53 < qyx> also less bulky than N
2020-10-10T01:53:55 < zyp> as in the connectors?
2020-10-10T01:53:56 < qyx> more robust than SMA
2020-10-10T01:53:58 < qyx> yes
2020-10-10T01:54:04 < zyp> that's BNC with screw threads, right?
2020-10-10T01:54:08 < Cracki> and then there is sigrok, who also want to work towards some graph model
2020-10-10T01:54:09 < qyx> yeah
2020-10-10T01:54:25 < qyx> but it seems they are good only to ~3GHz
2020-10-10T01:54:37 < Cracki> jadew, BNC connectors talk
2020-10-10T01:54:48 < Cracki> or SMA
2020-10-10T01:54:48 < zyp> I figure they are like BNC except maybe a little bit better
2020-10-10T01:55:04 < qyx> I have a peli case with some stuff inside
2020-10-10T01:55:17 < qyx> I would like to have LTE antenna on the outside of the case
2020-10-10T01:55:32 < qyx> usually such rugged antennas have N
2020-10-10T01:55:52 < zyp> are you gonna screw the antenna to the case?
2020-10-10T01:56:01 < zyp> or cable between?
2020-10-10T01:56:49 < qyx> https://www.2j-antennas.com/antennas/combination-external-antennas/2j7024ba-2-4g-lte-3g-2g-mimo-high-gain-antenna/82
2020-10-10T01:56:50 < aandrew> PAC5223 is an interesting little CM0
2020-10-10T01:56:53 < qyx> something like that on a pole
2020-10-10T01:57:02 < qyx> cable between
2020-10-10T01:57:32 < aandrew> 70V input, built in gate drivers
2020-10-10T01:57:51 < zyp> looks panel mount, just mount the antenna directly in a hole in the case :p
2020-10-10T01:58:12 < zyp> aandrew, nice
2020-10-10T01:58:26 < qyx> hrmpf
2020-10-10T01:59:12 < qyx> I'll have PCB antennas with 3M stickers inside
2020-10-10T01:59:46 < qyx> the N-connector one is for cases when it has to be raised out of the construction
2020-10-10T02:00:22 < zyp> aandrew, does it have internal regulator from the 70V as well, or does it need external VDD?
2020-10-10T02:01:19 < qyx> Integrated 70 V DC/DC buck or SEPIC controller
2020-10-10T02:02:04 < zyp> ah, internal 3.3V and 1.8V regs, right
2020-10-10T02:02:15 < zyp> also IO supply
2020-10-10T02:02:23 < qyx> no CAN :(
2020-10-10T02:02:39 < qyx> how is it supposed to be controlled
2020-10-10T02:02:46 < qyx> with i2c/spi?
2020-10-10T02:02:55 < zyp> or uart, I guess
2020-10-10T02:03:47 < qyx> they say drones
2020-10-10T02:08:43 < zyp> oh, right, buck drops 70V to 15V, then linear reg from 15V to 5V, then additional linear regs from 5V to 3.3V and 1.8V
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2020-10-10T02:31:12 < Laurenceb> arggg lunix
2020-10-10T02:31:19  * Laurenceb has missing glyphs in a pdf
2020-10-10T02:31:45 < Laurenceb> anyone know how to fix this? I think dvipdfm is screwing something up
2020-10-10T02:33:14 < Cracki> uh
2020-10-10T02:33:22 < Cracki> wtf dvi, nobody uses that anymore
2020-10-10T02:33:30 < Cracki> pdflatex and done
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2020-10-10T02:34:08 < Cracki> sumatra pdf renders fast and can redraw a pdf when it changes externally
2020-10-10T02:34:28 < Cracki> (in case you avoided pdfs because acrobat reader holds an open handle on the file, preventing it from being rewritten)
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2020-10-10T02:37:12 < Laurenceb> that doesn fix it
2020-10-10T02:37:13 < Laurenceb> \pdfinclusioncopyfonts=1 doesnt either
2020-10-10T02:37:50 < Cracki> o.o
2020-10-10T02:37:52 < Cracki> #latex
2020-10-10T02:40:32 < Laurenceb> oi m8
2020-10-10T02:40:42 < Laurenceb> u got a loicense for that font?
2020-10-10T02:41:18 < Laurenceb> 00.pdf, loicensed to font
2020-10-10T02:48:58 < Cracki> oi
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2020-10-10T05:54:02 < karlp> aandrew: been getting some pac5x shit in locm3 recenntly, does look neat
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2020-10-10T12:08:07 < qyx> ##covid32, 1900 dayly, +169% per week, we are italying ourselves
2020-10-10T12:12:48 < PaulFertser> Russia's at the all-time peak today.
2020-10-10T12:29:21 -!- catphish [~user@unaffiliated/catphish] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds]
2020-10-10T12:31:20 < zyp> peak of what?
2020-10-10T12:31:26 < zyp> daily new infections?
2020-10-10T12:33:08 < jpa-> peak population
2020-10-10T12:33:16 < jpa-> it's all downhill from here
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2020-10-10T13:01:41 < BrainDamage> I find quite amusing that we went from the "black sheep" to almost an example to follow now, we have it way way better than many others
2020-10-10T13:08:04 < Steffanx> Haha yes BrainDamage 
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2020-10-10T13:27:14 < PaulFertser> zyp: yes, daily new SARS-CoV-2 detected cases.
2020-10-10T13:33:00 < jadew> haha jpa- 
2020-10-10T13:34:50 < jadew> BrainDamage, did Italy do anything special to keep the number of infections low?
2020-10-10T13:35:03 < jadew> in here we had peak deaths ~3-4 days ago
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2020-10-10T13:41:37 < antto> jadew, how many?
2020-10-10T13:42:02 < jadew> antto, 82
2020-10-10T13:42:34 < antto> out of how much population?
2020-10-10T13:42:51 < jadew> 18 million
2020-10-10T13:43:20 < antto> i think we got roughly under 10 deaths per day, for 6-7M population
2020-10-10T13:43:53 < antto> but they aren't doing autopsies
2020-10-10T13:43:56 < jadew> there might be more people here right now, because many of them came back from Italy
2020-10-10T13:44:09 < jadew> but I think they're slowly going back
2020-10-10T13:44:34 < antto> and someone said that the actual respirators might be the cause of death in some cases
2020-10-10T13:44:35 < jadew> *during the lockdown - not right now
2020-10-10T13:44:53 < jadew> antto, yeah, I'm sure sometimes the treatment is the cause
2020-10-10T13:45:13 < antto> he mentioned something about positive vs negative pressure
2020-10-10T13:45:17 < antto> but i didn't get it
2020-10-10T13:45:41 < Steffanx> Dont die
2020-10-10T13:46:07 < antto> because there has been a few autopsies made in the very beginning here (early march) .. before they stopped doing them
2020-10-10T13:46:31 < antto> now they just slap "corizzle vizzle" on u if u die
2020-10-10T13:47:03 < antto> Steffanx, it's on the schedule
2020-10-10T13:47:08 < antto> ;P~
2020-10-10T13:47:22 < Steffanx> Hm
2020-10-10T13:47:23 < antto> <countdown_timer.jpg>
2020-10-10T13:48:40 < zyp> peak deaths here was 16, in april
2020-10-10T13:49:13 < zyp> been less than one on average since may
2020-10-10T13:49:24 < jadew> thing is, they don't put you on the respirator if you can breathe yourself :)
2020-10-10T13:49:43 < jadew> if you can still do that, they'll just give you an oxygen mask
2020-10-10T13:49:59 < jadew> the respirator comes when you turn purple and are no longer there
2020-10-10T13:50:51 < jadew> but yeah, bad settings can kill you
2020-10-10T13:51:00 < jadew> or bad devices
2020-10-10T13:51:46 < antto> jadew, maybe in .ro
2020-10-10T13:52:07 < antto> in general, they can "help you" become unable to breathe
2020-10-10T13:53:17 < jadew> my concern was always about the drugs they pump into you
2020-10-10T13:53:43 < jadew> they are largely following a protocol for which there are no substantial studies
2020-10-10T13:53:51 < antto> yeah, there has been at least 1 case here with a young boi who got experimented on and killed in hospital
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2020-10-10T13:54:07 < jadew> x amount of this for y days, then do this
2020-10-10T13:54:28 < antto> his father happens to be a lawyer and made the story public afterwards and is investigating and gonna sue their a$$es to death
2020-10-10T13:54:43 < jadew> how easy on the body could ebola medicine be?
2020-10-10T13:55:05 < jadew> I doubt that's what they were worried about when they were curing ebola in the poorest places on earth
2020-10-10T13:55:26 < antto> in this case, they used illegal substances
2020-10-10T13:55:50 < antto> stuff that is not allowed to be used on humans, not even in hospital/controlled conditions
2020-10-10T13:56:29 < antto> just, some $doctor was in $innovation mode
2020-10-10T13:57:16 < antto> and due to all the others who seem to be involved in this, it must be a normal practice
2020-10-10T13:57:25 < antto> not a single case
2020-10-10T14:14:52 < BrainDamage> well, as long as the patient is informed, I don't see a problem with experimental treatments
2020-10-10T14:15:03 < BrainDamage> one is allowed to gamble on his own life
2020-10-10T14:15:13 < BrainDamage> esp if you're dead for dead
2020-10-10T14:15:48 < antto> that's not how it works here
2020-10-10T14:16:14 < antto> you think some doctor comes in and explains to you wut's going on and what your options and the risks are?
2020-10-10T14:16:25 < BrainDamage> yes, that's exactly what happens here
2020-10-10T14:16:27 < Steffanx> Here people just die because they chose to not get treated. Mainly older people.
2020-10-10T14:17:00 < BrainDamage> and you have to sign a form that you understand the implications and risks of the treatment
2020-10-10T14:17:09 < Steffanx> Which also affected the death count
2020-10-10T14:17:32 < antto> here, if you have "similar symptoms" and you go to a hospital, they do a test on u while they stuff you in covid-section
2020-10-10T14:18:20 < BrainDamage> jadew: even if there's no law for it, pretty much ~everyone started offering hand sanitizers, offices, small business, etc
2020-10-10T14:18:40 < BrainDamage> mandatory social distancing also, schools, hospitals, etc
2020-10-10T14:19:08 < antto> BrainDamage, yeah, like how my mother has "signed" the choice between two options when she couldn't even move
2020-10-10T14:19:17 < antto> they just $improvise
2020-10-10T14:19:19 < antto> ..here
2020-10-10T14:19:38 < BrainDamage> here if you're incapacitated a relative has to do consent for you
2020-10-10T14:20:00 < antto> yeah, that's all logical, but it's not what actually happens here
2020-10-10T14:20:01 < jadew> BrainDamage, are people properly respecting that tho?
2020-10-10T14:20:15 < jadew> we had that here as well, but everyone just chillaxed
2020-10-10T14:20:27 < BrainDamage> jadew: individually not so much, but they are when it's enforced by the facilities
2020-10-10T14:20:47 < BrainDamage> so eg some seats in rows are flagged as not usable, etc
2020-10-10T14:21:12 < BrainDamage> and we enforce that by applying fines to businesses which don't apply the rules about distancing
2020-10-10T14:21:42 < antto> i had to deal with $hospital here, in 2019
2020-10-10T14:22:16 < antto> when the patient hits the $emergency section, there's like a brick wall, you have zero clue wtf happens
2020-10-10T14:22:34 < antto> and this is not even about an infectious disease
2020-10-10T14:22:56 < antto> no phones, no going in, no nothing
2020-10-10T14:23:28 < antto> you sit outside and beg for information every day between 13h and 15h iirc
2020-10-10T14:23:33 < BrainDamage> here there's the triage desk that you can inquire
2020-10-10T14:24:17 < BrainDamage> and it's open 24/7
2020-10-10T14:24:48 < PaulFertser> antto: that's horrible :( even russia has better regulations regarding emergency rooms
2020-10-10T14:25:01 < BrainDamage> what confuses some people is that we have multiple queues based off the triage emergency class
2020-10-10T14:25:30 < BrainDamage> so some foreigners get puzzled that some people arrived later than them get treated faster
2020-10-10T14:25:51 < BrainDamage> because their case was deemed more urgent
2020-10-10T14:26:21 < BrainDamage> eg when I went there with a dislocated jaw 1 month ago I skipped a lot of queue
2020-10-10T14:27:03 < jadew> you got into a fight?
2020-10-10T14:27:21 < antto> PaulFertser, afaik the problem here is that the health system is set up to work as a trading business or something
2020-10-10T14:27:28 < antto> no patients - no monie
2020-10-10T14:27:48 < BrainDamage> no, I have a genetic defect that all my ligaments are longer than normal, I can dislocate almost every joint accidentally
2020-10-10T14:28:02 < jadew> wow, that sucks
2020-10-10T14:28:03 < BrainDamage> in this case ... I yawned too strongly
2020-10-10T14:28:30 < BrainDamage> in most of the times, the joint pops back in almost immediately, but sometimes like that one, it gets stuck
2020-10-10T14:28:31 < jadew> god... I bet you're super careful when you yawn now
2020-10-10T14:29:14 < BrainDamage> I have to maintain a minimum of muscle tone per doctor's orders, they help keeping things in place
2020-10-10T14:29:47 < BrainDamage> ofc you don't always remember to eg, excercise your jaw ..
2020-10-10T14:29:48 < jadew> I have a slipper disc in my lombar section and I have to work out for the same reason
2020-10-10T14:30:28 < jadew> heh, true, I assume the problem pops up exactly in those places that you don't normally exercise
2020-10-10T14:30:34 < PaulFertser> Hope you're fine now BrainDamage ? Was the healing process long?
2020-10-10T14:30:36 < BrainDamage> precisely
2020-10-10T14:30:40 < jadew> chewing gum would probably be a kind of workout, no?
2020-10-10T14:31:24 < jadew> *slippery
2020-10-10T14:31:42 < BrainDamage> yeah, full recovery, a couple of weeks with an elastic bandage to keep my jaw shut in relaxed position to help healing
2020-10-10T14:31:56 < BrainDamage> and stupid semi-liquid diet
2020-10-10T14:32:17 < PaulFertser> A couple of weeks! That's some serious dislocation. Good to hear you're all good now.
2020-10-10T14:32:47 < BrainDamage> jadew: I got some excercises taught me from a phisiotherapist
2020-10-10T14:33:07 < BrainDamage> mostly trying to force open the jaw against a rubber band
2020-10-10T14:33:14 < BrainDamage> and some lateral movement
2020-10-10T14:34:07 < BrainDamage> the docs couldn't reduce it at first
2020-10-10T14:34:23 < BrainDamage> they had to take a rx to see how it got stuck
2020-10-10T14:34:48 < BrainDamage> and do under anesthesy
2020-10-10T14:35:35 < jadew> man, it sounds painful
2020-10-10T14:36:04 < jadew> glad you're ok now
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2020-10-10T15:30:13 < benishor> any of you guys produced smd stencils with a cnc?
2020-10-10T15:30:18 < benishor> if so what material did you use?
2020-10-10T15:32:09 < PaulFertser> benishor: I've read about https://ncrmnt.org/2015/09/02/stencils/
2020-10-10T15:36:28 < antto> cnc laz0r
2020-10-10T15:37:09 < benishor> 10x PaulFertser
2020-10-10T15:37:21 < benishor> antto: the above linked article says laz0r sux0rs
2020-10-10T15:37:32 < antto> aww
2020-10-10T15:38:06 < antto> i thought stencils are cut with laz0rz
2020-10-10T15:38:38 < antto> wait, this ain't no metal
2020-10-10T15:39:10 < Steffanx> look better
2020-10-10T15:41:22 < PaulFertser> benishor: if you have a capable cnc router why are you asking and not just cutting alu for stencils?
2020-10-10T15:41:56 < srk> difficult as you would need miniature tools
2020-10-10T15:42:01 < srk> easier with drilling 
2020-10-10T15:42:31 < benishor> PaulFertser: I never thought alu can be a solution
2020-10-10T15:42:48 < benishor> I can cut alu, no problem
2020-10-10T15:42:55 < srk> build a dispenser (syringe + stepper) :)
2020-10-10T15:43:09 < benishor> srk: that's also an option for lat0r 
2020-10-10T15:43:11 < benishor> :))
2020-10-10T15:43:24 < benishor> PaulFertser: it's just I need to find a thin enough alu sheet
2020-10-10T15:44:28 < mawk> the guy is applying paste with a moscow train ticket or something in your link PaulFertser 
2020-10-10T15:44:31 < mawk> we spotted you
2020-10-10T15:44:37 < PaulFertser> mawk: no, he's not me
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2020-10-10T15:44:44 < PaulFertser> He's much more capable
2020-10-10T15:44:57 < mawk> your not-evil twin
2020-10-10T15:45:36 < PaulFertser> mawk: and it looks like some prepaid voip card 
2020-10-10T15:46:10 < mawk> yes
2020-10-10T15:46:16 < mawk> well for telephone cabines
2020-10-10T15:46:26 < mawk> they disappeared from france a few years ago, it's a pity
2020-10-10T15:46:32 < mawk> they were great for hobos
2020-10-10T15:49:17 < mawk> the guy is taking sputnik V PaulFertser 
2020-10-10T15:49:26 < mawk> so I guess he spoke his last words
2020-10-10T15:50:13 < PaulFertser> mawk: that's unlikely
2020-10-10T15:50:29 < mawk> that he will die? or that he takes the vaccine
2020-10-10T15:50:44 < mawk> well he's got a 50/50 chance of not receiving the placebo I guess
2020-10-10T15:50:46 < PaulFertser> mawk: sputnik V was a "copy-paste job" of their earlier development agains MERS-CoV. 
2020-10-10T15:51:22 < PaulFertser> And two stages of trials didn't expose any complications so far.
2020-10-10T15:52:44 < mawk> and is it effective?
2020-10-10T15:52:44 < PaulFertser> mawk: no, I think that card was for long-distance calls via a regular PSTN line but using some local number to route the call over the Internet.
2020-10-10T15:53:36 < PaulFertser> mawk: it was effective on the animals. And humans produce antibodies. That's known. If the antibodies are good enough to fight actual SARS-CoV-2 in humans is yet to be properly determined.
2020-10-10T15:54:07 < jadew> the good news is that there are no complications, the bad news is that it doesn't work
2020-10-10T15:54:42 < PaulFertser> jadew: got some link to a reputable source?
2020-10-10T15:54:58 < jadew> I'm just goofing around
2020-10-10T15:55:07 < jadew> I hope it works
2020-10-10T15:55:25 < PaulFertser> It has fair chances of working.
2020-10-10T15:55:39 < PaulFertser> It's a well-tested adeno-virus vector + SARS-CoV-2 S-enzyme
2020-10-10T16:17:15 < PaulFertser> mawk: no, that's indeed a payphone booth card.
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2020-10-10T16:40:09 < Steffanx> Those things still exist in russialand PaulFertser?
2020-10-10T16:40:34 < mawk> I still have a bunch of telephone cards
2020-10-10T16:40:39 < mawk> but the cabins are gone
2020-10-10T16:41:09 < mawk> so you shouldn't assume the things still exist Steffanx you are committing a logical fallacy
2020-10-10T16:41:18 < mawk> which increases your likelihood of going to hell by 5%
2020-10-10T16:42:03 < Steffanx> You can also read more in my question then you are supposed to
2020-10-10T16:42:21 < Steffanx> which increases the likelyhood to go to hell by 10%
2020-10-10T16:43:04 < Steffanx> Did you buy yourself a bicycle yet mawk?
2020-10-10T16:47:12 < mawk> no
2020-10-10T16:47:15 < mawk> it's useless
2020-10-10T16:54:36 < BrainDamage> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zUp8pkoeMss
2020-10-10T16:56:08 < Steffanx> No its a good way to move your arse around mawk
2020-10-10T16:57:45 < mawk> I just walk Steffanx 
2020-10-10T16:57:55 < Steffanx> boring
2020-10-10T16:58:54 < BrainDamage> attach a piston to the bike crankshaft that drives a dildo on the vertical tube of the frame through the seatpost
2020-10-10T16:59:29 < BrainDamage> plenty of arse movement
2020-10-10T17:00:08 < Steffanx> yeah, i think mawk would love that
2020-10-10T17:03:59 < mawk> :(
2020-10-10T17:05:48 < englishman> I thought mawk died?
2020-10-10T17:05:56 < mawk> why would you think that
2020-10-10T17:08:05 < Steffanx> You kinda told us. You were going to die, maybe.
2020-10-10T17:08:28 < mawk> with a small chance
2020-10-10T17:08:38 < mawk> so, never
2020-10-10T17:08:47 < mawk> since I have superhero abilities to not die when I overdose
2020-10-10T17:18:50 < antto> NP0 or NPO
2020-10-10T17:19:05 < antto> ..for MLCC
2020-10-10T17:24:25 < englishman> zero
2020-10-10T17:25:03 < englishman> negative-positive 0 ppm
2020-10-10T17:30:59 < karlp> use C0G to be in the same nomenclature as x7r...
2020-10-10T17:31:27 < karlp> [tempco-letter][tempco multiplier][tempco stablity]
2020-10-10T17:31:55 < karlp> except not even, because there's different classes
2020-10-10T17:32:29 < karlp> bright side, the letters can also help you tell which class.
2020-10-10T17:32:37 < karlp> C is automatttically class 1, X is automatically class 2
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2020-10-10T18:38:27 < PaulFertser> Steffanx: I am not sure, most probably not.
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2020-10-10T19:14:42 < Steffanx> Apparently there are still a few in dutchland, idk where though
2020-10-10T19:20:07 < PaulFertser> Steffanx: reading this https://tjournal.ru/news/94699-rostelekom-otmenit-platu-za-zvonki-s-ulichnyh-taksofonov tells me there're still some pay phones around but now all calls to fixed lines (that excludes mobile cell numbers) is free.
2020-10-10T19:20:44 < PaulFertser> And that there were about 150k of those functional 1.5 years ago.
2020-10-10T19:20:53 < Steffanx> 150k daaamn
2020-10-10T19:21:21 < PaulFertser> Russia's big, and plenty of small villages all around.
2020-10-10T19:21:33 < PaulFertser> tbh, I'm surprised to learn that
2020-10-10T19:22:46 < PaulFertser> Some of those provide Internet access with an integrated WiFi AP.
2020-10-10T19:29:25 < mawk> Steffanx: https://serveur.io/billybill.jpg
2020-10-10T19:30:13 < mawk> on a bus stop
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2020-10-10T19:38:34 < Steffanx> Absolutely.
2020-10-10T19:40:38 < mawk> dutch are nutjobs conspiracy theorists
2020-10-10T19:50:43 < PaulFertser> tfw it's equally possible that it is either a conspiracy or a post-modernistic joke
2020-10-10T19:53:25 < mawk> lol
2020-10-10T19:53:31 < mawk> I think it's a conspiracy
2020-10-10T19:53:35 < mawk> dutchies are all in it
2020-10-10T19:54:59 < Steffanx> sure
2020-10-10T19:55:06 < Steffanx> We should kick the frogs out. 
2020-10-10T19:55:22 < Steffanx> #kickoutfrogs
2020-10-10T19:55:51 < mawk> :((
2020-10-10T19:56:00 < mawk> good thing I'm not one
2020-10-10T19:56:05 < mawk> I'm dutch
2020-10-10T19:56:08 < mawk> certified
2020-10-10T19:57:24 < PaulFertser> I think I saw a tourette person irl recently.
2020-10-10T19:57:47 < Steffanx> Raised in frogland mawk
2020-10-10T19:59:05 < PaulFertser> There was a band playing "russian rock" in moscow metro. And one "grandma" staying there and listening to them. Occassionally shouting something furiously. And spitting in a small transparent plastic bag she was carrying every now and then. It had quite some amount of spit already.
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2020-10-10T19:59:32 < mawk> lol PaulFertser what
2020-10-10T20:00:13 < Steffanx> Tourette is such funny but weird disorder.
2020-10-10T20:00:21 < mawk> yeah
2020-10-10T20:00:30 < kakibitch> hello ##tourettes32
2020-10-10T20:00:42 < Steffanx> Who's bitch are you?
2020-10-10T20:00:46 < mawk> mine
2020-10-10T20:00:54 < mawk> kakibitch is a gravid bitch
2020-10-10T20:01:06 < mawk> soon to be popping out puppies
2020-10-10T20:01:14 < kakibitch> life's
2020-10-10T20:04:10 < Steffanx> Hows the cat kakibitch?
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2020-10-10T20:04:24 < kakibitch> crazy
2020-10-10T20:04:46 < kakibitch> it's broken.. it likes water
2020-10-10T20:05:29 < Steffanx> its because it a paint bucket cat.
2020-10-10T20:05:31 < PaulFertser> Video please
2020-10-10T20:09:18 < kakibitch> no recent videos
2020-10-10T20:10:19 < kakibitch> https://drive.google.com/file/d/12EY2qyV8AbfshTMzXMzXUpnMm0BO9DjO/view?usp=sharing "sauna gatekeeper"
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2020-10-10T20:17:19 < kakibitch> Steffanx: it has cat inside cat camo it it's back
2020-10-10T20:17:29 < kakibitch> like the old cat has too
2020-10-10T20:17:53 < kakibitch> not camo maybe but a visual distraction pattern
2020-10-10T20:25:30 < Steffanx> paint bucket cat.
2020-10-10T20:28:12 < kakibitch> that's racist
2020-10-10T20:31:25 -!- inca [~inca@162.154.131.90] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds]
2020-10-10T20:45:21 < kakibitch> also the cat enjoys tummy scratching
2020-10-10T20:45:35 < kakibitch> no attak, just enjoy
2020-10-10T20:56:31 < Cracki> paint bucket cat https://www.alpina-farben.at/fileadmin/user_upload/teaser_historie_stiwa_17_11_27.jpg
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2020-10-10T22:19:03 < Steffanx> Cracki, when you see jly, ask him what a paint bucket cat is
2020-10-10T22:19:27 < Cracki> who will regret my asking
2020-10-10T22:19:35 < Cracki> will I? will you?
2020-10-10T22:20:34 < Steffanx> No one.
2020-10-10T22:20:39 < Steffanx> i wont for sure
2020-10-10T22:20:52 < Steffanx> Since its excactly what kakibitch's cat is
2020-10-10T22:31:01 < Cracki> til: google maps has no 3d imagery for moscow
2020-10-10T22:32:32 < Cracki> yandex loads noticeably faster than google too
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2020-10-10T22:53:02 < qyx> wait what
2020-10-10T22:53:20 < qyx> usb-c specs actually specifies a screw-locking usb-c connector
2020-10-10T22:53:37 < qyx> thats great
2020-10-10T22:54:03 < qyx> I have not seen any such cable yet though
2020-10-10T22:56:56 < qyx> unrelated, what connector would you use for 100Base-TX if 8P8C is too big for the device?
2020-10-10T22:57:16 < qyx> with locking preferably
2020-10-10T22:58:03 < qyx> no interoperability is needed, the output will be pigtailed to a standard RJ45 or similar
2020-10-10T22:58:45 < qyx> I am leaning towards some JST or molex MicroFit if they suffice electrically
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2020-10-10T23:18:16 < Laurenceb> loicense
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2020-10-10T23:22:17 < antto> o hai therr loirens
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2020-10-10T23:31:19 < Steffanx> why do you time out so often mr Laurenceb
2020-10-10T23:32:40 < antto> let me guess
2020-10-10T23:32:44 < antto> weefee
2020-10-10T23:32:50 < Laurenceb> yes
2020-10-10T23:32:55 < Laurenceb> 2.4ghz weefeee
2020-10-10T23:33:02 < antto> loirens, pls
2020-10-10T23:33:10 < antto> this ain't serious.. get a f*cking cable
2020-10-10T23:33:15 < Laurenceb> ikr
2020-10-10T23:33:30 < antto> this channel needs you 24/7
2020-10-10T23:33:35 < Laurenceb> lol
2020-10-10T23:33:45 < Laurenceb> shitpost channe;l
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2020-10-10T23:44:18 < kakibitch> wifi causes timeouts?
2020-10-10T23:44:20 < kakibitch> no way
2020-10-10T23:44:30 < PaulFertser> Laurenceb: you can get meraki mr-18 really cheap for like 10 pounds (without licence), and that'll give you awesome 5 GHz coverage once you install OpenWrt on it.
2020-10-10T23:44:35 < kakibitch> shitty router maybe
2020-10-10T23:44:54 < Laurenceb> PaulFertser: crappy isp router
2020-10-10T23:45:11 < Laurenceb> also >2.4ghz >in uk
2020-10-10T23:45:29 < PaulFertser> Laurenceb: you can buy your own gear y'now
2020-10-10T23:46:01 < Laurenceb> yeah I need to be less tight
2020-10-10T23:46:02 < PaulFertser> They sell for really cheap because they're "useless" until you install OpenWrt and that requires "skillz".
2020-10-10T23:46:27 < Laurenceb> this thing is 2.4ghz only, so I'd need to buy something new
2020-10-10T23:47:23  * antto slaps Laurenceb with a cable
2020-10-10T23:48:24 < PaulFertser> Laurenceb: if this thing has ethernet, just attach a proper AP to it.
2020-10-10T23:48:32 < Laurenceb> hmm neat plan
2020-10-10T23:49:10 < PaulFertser> Laurenceb: and you can get a proper 5 GHz + 2.4 GHz AP for 10 GBP.
2020-10-10T23:49:46 < antto> <cell_mutations_intensifies.gif>
2020-10-10T23:59:50 < specing> PaulFertser: how good are the electronics inside that thing?
--- Day changed Sun Oct 11 2020
2020-10-11T00:00:08 < specing> even if heavily subsidies, I doubt it's designed to last more than a year at $10
2020-10-11T00:00:19 < englishman> qyx: yes the spec has one but my horse/molex guy I forget said noone is making them because something about bad experience with microusb3.0 screw lock or something related to that awful connector. ie wait for chinese to make one
2020-10-11T00:00:20 < PaulFertser> specing: meraki thing? I think it's pretty good.
2020-10-11T00:00:30 < englishman> horse-> hirose
2020-10-11T00:00:38 < englishman> fucking ASSDROID autocorrect
2020-10-11T00:01:10 < PaulFertser> specing: it's normally sold for much more than that, but it's running Cisco firmware and you need to pay for that yearly or some shit. Once people do not need it for one reason or the other, they sell it for cheap.
2020-10-11T00:02:05 < specing> ah
2020-10-11T00:02:30 < PaulFertser> specing: btw, even most cheap SOHO wifi routers work just fine for many years, it can be 10 or 15, idk.
2020-10-11T00:04:41 < specing> PaulFertser: I find it fishy if PSUs alone are under $10 each, but whole devices? Ugh...
2020-10-11T00:05:24 < PaulFertser> specing: sometimes one needs to replace caps in PSUs, that's the most common "failure" for those routers.
2020-10-11T00:05:47 < PaulFertser> Or just use another PSU
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2020-10-11T00:28:17 < zyp> qyx, for 100base-tx you could use whatever four pin connector you'd like
2020-10-11T00:30:07 < zyp> we're running two 100base-tx links and a bunch of other stuff via a 20-pin jst zpd
2020-10-11T00:30:19 < karlp> I love how transceivers have all gotten so good that we're now like, "fuck it, just fencing wire is fine"
2020-10-11T00:30:31 < karlp> when it used to be "take care with your signal integrity for such high speeds boyo!"
2020-10-11T00:30:44 < zyp> :)
2020-10-11T00:33:41 < zyp> I mean, if you are gonna do the full specced 100m range then perhaps you need to be a bit careful but for short ranges you have plenty of margin
2020-10-11T00:37:42 < zyp> I remember when I was a kid in school, before wifi were common, we ran a cable for something through a couple of windows
2020-10-11T00:38:46 < Cracki> there was this thing before the internet called "teevee". it wasn't digital, and only used coaxial cable
2020-10-11T00:39:12 < zyp> somebody managed to shut one of the windows so that the locking pin punched through the cable and cut a couple of the conductors
2020-10-11T00:39:44 < zyp> and I fixed it by stripping the ends and twisting them back together
2020-10-11T00:39:48 < zyp> worked well enough
2020-10-11T00:51:00 < karlp> when I worked at cisco, the dudes in one building were demonstrating that some gig shit failed if you untwisted like 10 cm of cable at one end,
2020-10-11T00:51:20 < karlp> and some other dudes wwere demonstrating some vdsl shit literally over fencing wire to show how it didn't matter anymore
2020-10-11T00:51:57 < zyp> vdsl _should_ be less picky than 1gbase-t :p
2020-10-11T00:52:10 < karlp> well, yes, but still.. 
2020-10-11T00:52:17 < karlp> it was new for xdsl world at the time.
2020-10-11T00:52:43 < zyp> the cabling dsl is designed to run on is pretty shit
2020-10-11T00:53:03 < karlp> in other news, I found where in tthe lua reference manual it actually menttions my truncated return values, so I feel a little happier now.
2020-10-11T00:53:19 < karlp> it doesn't provide _any_ reasonsing for doing so, just says that it will happen.
2020-10-11T00:53:26 < zyp> haha
2020-10-11T00:53:39 < karlp> paragraph 3 here, and the examples below: http://www.lua.org/manual/5.3/manual.html#3.4
2020-10-11T00:53:53 < BrainDamage> https://www.revk.uk/2017/12/its-official-adsl-works-over-wet-string.html
2020-10-11T00:54:45 < karlp> relevant: https://github.com/karlp/zypsnips/blob/master/audio-cheap.txt#L103
2020-10-11T00:54:55 < jadew> what's the smart way of figuring out how many decimal points you need to represent a floating point number?
2020-10-11T00:55:04 < karlp> also news, mozilla happily documents webusb here: https://developer.mozilla.org/en-US/docs/Web/API/USB#Browser_compatibility
2020-10-11T00:55:09 < jadew> *in order to represent
2020-10-11T00:55:10 < karlp> but also... that it's not in firefox...
2020-10-11T00:55:39 < karlp> jadew: there's never going ot be a magic rule....
2020-10-11T00:56:39 < zyp> jadew, in what sense?
2020-10-11T00:57:12 < jadew> zyp, say you have 0.012 - how do you know it has 3 decimals?
2020-10-11T00:57:48 < zyp> 32-bit floats have a 24-bit mantissa, that's roughly four million, so a decimal representation would have 6-7 significant digits
2020-10-11T00:58:02 < zyp> sorry, 16 million, so 7-8
2020-10-11T00:58:12 < jadew> right, but I don't want to look at the bits really...
2020-10-11T00:58:18 < jadew> it doesn't sound very portable
2020-10-11T00:58:25 < zyp> what are you asking then?
2020-10-11T00:59:33 < jadew> what's the best way to get the number of digits, without looking at the bits
2020-10-11T01:00:15 < karlp> wat
2020-10-11T01:00:30 < zyp> as in, how many digits you need to print it?
2020-10-11T01:00:31 < jadew> I'm looking for a formula of sorts
2020-10-11T01:00:33 < jadew> yeah
2020-10-11T01:01:00 < zyp> depends how you round it
2020-10-11T01:01:53 < jadew> well, if it was represented as 0.011999999, then I'd want to print that
2020-10-11T01:01:59 < zyp> I mean, can 0.012 even be represented exactly, or is it 0.01200003 or some shit?
2020-10-11T01:02:39 < zyp> okay, if you want to print it with full precision, that's easy, just always print 7 significant digits
2020-10-11T01:02:54  * karlp lols
2020-10-11T01:03:04 < zyp> and then I guess you can use log10 or some shit to find what's the first significant digit
2020-10-11T01:03:46 < karlp> heh, an2606 is up to rev44
2020-10-11T01:03:55 < zyp> nice
2020-10-11T01:04:44 < zyp> any interesting changes or just addition of more variants/families to the list of parts it applies to?
2020-10-11T01:06:52 < karlp> probably, not really checkign, just getting an up tto date version
2020-10-11T01:07:03 < karlp> poking at dfu bootloaders
2020-10-11T01:07:09 < karlp> making shit all modern and shit
2020-10-11T01:07:16 < karlp> first go enumerated, but failed, 
2020-10-11T01:07:25 < karlp> modbus boottloader worked fine of course,.....
2020-10-11T01:08:07 < zyp> custom?
2020-10-11T01:08:45 < karlp> the modbus one? yeah.
2020-10-11T01:09:06 < karlp> been considering whether it should just be opensource, but ... not a priority right now.
2020-10-11T01:09:28 < karlp> but no, have a usb device, want to bootload it, was looking att the existing decades old dfu examples in locm3, not entirely working.
2020-10-11T01:09:48 < karlp> just used th e modbus one to make sure I'd converted the app to second stage properly..
2020-10-11T01:10:12 < zyp> are you looking at doing custom dfu as well?
2020-10-11T01:10:56 < karlp> honestly, never looked at dfu more than in passing, not even sure what's standrd and what's not.
2020-10-11T01:11:02 < karlp> it's for partts that don't have the dfu rom bootloader
2020-10-11T01:11:09 < karlp> but expecting to be able to use dfu-util off the shelf
2020-10-11T01:11:18 < zyp> by custom I mean non-rom :)
2020-10-11T01:11:28 < karlp> (why is there dfu-tool from some fwupd and also dfu-util?!)
2020-10-11T01:11:44 < zyp> heh
2020-10-11T01:12:16 < karlp> fucking open source losers
2020-10-11T01:12:31 < zyp> I think the rom dfu actually uses a nonstandard extension (dfuse or whatever they call it)
2020-10-11T01:12:36 < zyp> dfu-util supports it
2020-10-11T01:12:45 < karlp> I bet it was "license incompatible" or even just straight up, "the command line arguments weren't matching what we wanted to use, so we wrote our own tooling instead"
2020-10-11T01:12:56 < zyp> :)
2020-10-11T01:13:15 < karlp> getting old I guess.
2020-10-11T01:13:22 < zyp> DFU is also super simple, so you don't have to overthink it
2020-10-11T01:13:32 < karlp> anyway, quiet time is ticking, and motivation is high for a change, so better get cracking.
2020-10-11T01:13:45 < zyp> you can omit a bunch of the protocol
2020-10-11T01:13:50 < karlp> going to port devanlai/dapboot to l1 first, looks pretty straight forward, 
2020-10-11T01:14:13 < karlp> porting the locm3 shit failed, but itt also gave me compiler warnings that made me suspect the original code...
2020-10-11T01:14:22 < PaulFertser> I'm using dapboot on ts100
2020-10-11T01:14:27 < karlp> I saw your fork..
2020-10-11T01:14:36 < karlp> or, I saw your name in the network list, 
2020-10-11T01:15:17 < PaulFertser> If you mean github network it's just a trivial patch to change load address or something. I wonder why I'm supposed to "fork" a project to be able to send a patch via github.
2020-10-11T01:15:27 < PaulFertser> But it seems to be the only way
2020-10-11T01:15:34 < zyp> https://cgit.jvnv.net/arcin/tree/bootloader.cpp?id=9a09653#n114 <- here's my DFU implementation in 80 lines or so :)
2020-10-11T01:16:06 < zyp> PaulFertser, because that's how _pull_ requests work, you request people to pull changes from your fork
2020-10-11T01:16:36 < PaulFertser> zyp: well, right, but does it really need to be the only way to offer a contribution?
2020-10-11T01:17:17 < zyp> what stops you from skipping over github and just emailing the author a patch if you don't like it?
2020-10-11T01:17:19 < PaulFertser> zyp: also, normal pull requests allow pulling from any publicly accessible tree while this github thing requires the code to be on github?
2020-10-11T01:17:56 < karlp> zyp: I love your "state machine" "enums"
2020-10-11T01:18:05 < karlp> if state == 2, state =5 , woo
2020-10-11T01:18:33 < PaulFertser> Just e-mailing doesn't make the patch public and doesn't allow public discussion, and doesn't work at all for anything if the author is inactive for whatever reason.
2020-10-11T01:20:00 < zyp> then what stops you from hosting a repo elsewhere and asking people to pull from it?
2020-10-11T01:22:00 < zyp> PaulFertser, what would you like github to do that they aren't doing already?
2020-10-11T01:22:02 < PaulFertser> Via a github issue? That's possible, though probably not all maintainers that use github are going to be happy with an offer like that.
2020-10-11T01:22:22 < PaulFertser> zyp: I'd like Patchwork-like workflow to be possible.
2020-10-11T01:22:52 < PaulFertser> Also, I'd like github to offer same UI for pull requests to any servers.
2020-10-11T01:23:38 < zyp> why?
2020-10-11T01:23:56 < PaulFertser> Why the first or the second?
2020-10-11T01:24:15 < zyp> both
2020-10-11T01:24:38 < PaulFertser> I'd like patchwork-style because then I'd just send-email whatever I want without first bothering with creating a public fork.
2020-10-11T01:25:13 < PaulFertser> I'd like github to be not doing the vendor lock-in thing, and git is by definition distributed, so I'd like github to fully support the notion.
2020-10-11T01:27:54 < specing> zyp I do that, and my experience is that people really do not like this. Even of the ones that generally agree that github is a monopoly and agree that using it to develop FOSS will stop pulling from my repos after a few patches
2020-10-11T01:28:19 < specing> *agree that using it to develop FOSS is morally wrong
2020-10-11T01:28:46 < specing> > zyp | what stops you from skipping over github and just emailing the author a patch if you don't like it?
2020-10-11T01:28:47 < PaulFertser> I also see no reason why just using "git" shouldn't be enough to contribute code. With the way github currently is I either need some github-specific software installed or I need to go to their website, login, fork, then I push to my fork, then I go to the website again to create a "github pull request". I see no reason why "git" shouldn't be enough for all of that.
2020-10-11T01:28:58 < specing> A *lot* of people have an email of @users.github...
2020-10-11T01:29:30 < specing> git was designed to work with mailing lists, where you'd do git format-patch, send it, and then maintainer would run git am
2020-10-11T01:29:46 < specing> the whole pull request thing is a novelty
2020-10-11T01:30:33 < PaulFertser> specing: that I doubt
2020-10-11T01:30:45 < specing> PaulFertser: what do you doubt?
2020-10-11T01:30:52 < zyp> git was designed with enough flexibility to work in whatever workflow you'd like
2020-10-11T01:30:54 < PaulFertser> specing: normal git pull requests fit nicely in the Linux workflow
2020-10-11T01:31:13 < specing> PaulFertser: "pull request" = "Hey all, I have this patch ..." to mailing list
2020-10-11T01:31:30 < specing> github just builds a gui around writing an email
2020-10-11T01:31:51 < PaulFertser> specing: no, I think git supported fetching from remote repositories about right from the start. And pull request is an e-mail where you say "please pull from <url>"
2020-10-11T01:32:19 < specing> that's also possible, yes
2020-10-11T01:33:10 < zyp> personally I don't see the whole vendor lock-in point, since as you pointed out git is distributed
2020-10-11T01:33:37 < zyp> to me github is just a remote and can be substituted with any other remote if need be
2020-10-11T01:35:18 < PaulFertser> Lock-in happens when you start to count on github UIs to maintain the project.
2020-10-11T01:36:47 < specing> zyp: but it's often not just a repo
2020-10-11T01:36:58 < specing> it's often also a wiki, issues, a static site, ...
2020-10-11T01:37:09 < specing> migrating away quickly becomes painful
2020-10-11T01:37:42 < zyp> sure, but that has nothing to do with the patch submission process
2020-10-11T01:38:41 < PaulFertser> Github offers code review only for "github pull requests". And if the maintainers count on being able to do code review this way, it's forcing the contributors to host their public forks on github too.
2020-10-11T01:38:48 < zyp> and also not really what I carea about as a project contributor
2020-10-11T01:39:38 < karlp> PaulFertser: so, run it by me again, you have a dapboot fork on github, but you don't have a PR for it?
2020-10-11T01:39:50 < karlp> so you went all the way to github, but then ... didn't?
2020-10-11T01:39:54 < PaulFertser> karlp: I guess I do
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2020-10-11T01:41:12 < karlp> fucking stone age throwing patches over the wall with email is opression
2020-10-11T01:41:46 < karlp> AlL  ToOlS are GarBagE uNleSs I cAn EmAiLLL
2020-10-11T01:41:54 < zyp> PaulFertser, I don't really see how it matters, nothing stops you from also pushing your fork elsewhere if you really want to
2020-10-11T01:42:08 < karlp> "GIT AM OR GTFO" completely ignoring the fucking decades before git
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2020-10-11T01:42:39 < PaulFertser> karlp: hm, no, I do not. Probably I wanted to share some change, I do not remember why exactly.
2020-10-11T01:43:14 < PaulFertser> zyp: I can push my forks elsewhere. But maintainers won't be happy about it, so it'll complicate contributing to their upstream project.
2020-10-11T01:44:03 < zyp> generally when I've hacked on some shit and have a patch to submit, I hit the fork button, git remote add github blah, git push asdf github, submit PR, done
2020-10-11T01:44:25 < karlp> OMG, you bowedcx down to the corporate overlords and gave up your fr33d0mz
2020-10-11T01:44:35 < PaulFertser> zyp: yes, same here, but I think it shouldn't be necessary
2020-10-11T01:44:37 < zyp> forking gives you the new remote url, pushing to a fork gives you a direct link to submit PR, it's pretty fucking streamlined
2020-10-11T01:45:07 < zyp> and if you still really want to host it elsewhere just push a second copy to another remote and make everybody happy
2020-10-11T01:45:34 < PaulFertser> Everybody but me because I was forced to use github web interface twice for submitting even a simple patch.
2020-10-11T01:46:12 < zyp> I mean, the reason project maintainers want you to use github is because it makes their lives easier
2020-10-11T01:46:22 < PaulFertser> Also, wtf github doesn't allow creating new repos by pushing?
2020-10-11T01:46:41 < zyp> idk
2020-10-11T01:47:02 < zyp> does anywhere?
2020-10-11T01:47:15 < PaulFertser> gitolite and gitosys support that out of the box
2020-10-11T01:47:31 < karlp> really complaining about the big ticket items now :)
2020-10-11T01:48:23 < PaulFertser> Creating a pull request by pushing could be implemented too.
2020-10-11T01:49:18 < zyp> sure
2020-10-11T01:50:19 < zyp> but a pull request should come with a good description which might go beyond the commit messages
2020-10-11T01:50:50 < zyp> especially when making a PR of multiple commits
2020-10-11T01:51:36 < PaulFertser> might or might not. I'd like to have choices but github deprives me.
2020-10-11T01:52:05 < PaulFertser> karlp: I was trying to contribute to a fork https://github.com/eDesignOSS/dapboot/pull/1
2020-10-11T01:53:49 < zyp> I guess you could argue that having to fork makes a mess of obsolete forks everywhere :p
2020-10-11T01:56:17 < zyp> for small stuff that has changed hands a couple of times, it's not always obvious who is currently maintaining a project (if anybody)
2020-10-11T01:58:36 < zyp> one day I should probably go through my repos and delete forks that have been merged
2020-10-11T01:59:16 < karlp> heh, I did that once, tthen promptly went and needed one of the again :)
2020-10-11T01:59:22 < karlp> now I just say fuck it, let it all live
2020-10-11T01:59:46 < karlp> if you haven'tt changed the top level readme, it's a fork, not a new head.
2020-10-11T02:00:23 < zyp> hmm, maybe I should follow up on this some time: https://github.com/sigrokproject/libsigrokdecode/pull/33
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2020-10-11T02:00:58 < zyp> fixing code is easy, jumping through hoops to get the fix accepted is tedious
2020-10-11T02:08:04 < Cracki> lol their github mirror accepts pull requests now? a while ago they were like "put it somewhere and nag someone on irc to merge it"
2020-10-11T02:09:41 < Cracki> I hate the hoops too. I did a little fixup work for some message passing library a while ago. then they wanted me to figure out how their tests can be built and run, but I didn't see any docs for that and they acted like it's childsplay
2020-10-11T02:10:05 < Cracki> so now that pull request has been sitting idle for a year. their loss ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
2020-10-11T02:12:10 < zyp> I mean, it still helps
2020-10-11T02:12:50 < zyp> a couple of years ago I did the hoop jumping and resubmitted somebody elses PR: https://github.com/pika/pika/pull/805
2020-10-11T02:14:47 < Cracki> pika pika
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2020-10-11T02:17:26 < zyp> and a couple of months ago I changed a linker script in litex requiring all ten copies of startup code relying on it to be updated, and I didn't want to do them all by myself, so I submitted an incomplete PR: https://github.com/enjoy-digital/litex/pull/567
2020-10-11T02:19:01 < Cracki> how is that done, I don't think people can contribute code to a pull request or can they
2020-10-11T02:20:01 < zyp> my PR got merged and then there were another PR or two by somebody else for the remaining stuff
2020-10-11T02:20:41 < zyp> but I mean, I could always take a patch from somebody else and merge it into my feature branch and thereby adding it to the PR
2020-10-11T02:21:05 < Cracki> hooray for dev branch being dev and master staying buildable and greening all the tests
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2020-10-11T02:29:08 < karlp> bah, dapboot made a "target" layer,
2020-10-11T02:29:20 < karlp> but explicitly made the apis for the target layer include f1 quirks like 16bit flash word writing.
2020-10-11T02:35:17 < karlp> heheh, this is goign to be fun.  f1 does half word writes in ~50usecs, no problems tto do a buffers worth on usb requests...
2020-10-11T02:35:32 < karlp> l1 does words (or half pages, doesn't matter) in ... ~3ms.
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2020-10-11T03:20:46 < karlp> surprise surprise, dapboot port fails the same way, likely for exactly that reason...
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2020-10-11T08:39:36 < qyx> zyp: I am looking at some fakras just for the lulz
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2020-10-11T08:44:25 < qyx> but huge too
2020-10-11T08:50:40 < qyx> microfit then, I am using them on other boards too
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2020-10-11T10:03:03 < zyp> qyx, is microfit really any smaller than rj45
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2020-10-11T12:17:24 < antto> muzik https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CWxZcCrcctY
2020-10-11T12:48:05 < qyx> zyp: I can fit 4 on the front panel
2020-10-11T12:48:14 < qyx> compared to 2 RJ45
2020-10-11T12:49:34 < qyx> it is 16mm vs 10mm
2020-10-11T12:54:17 < qyx> oh whats mini-i/o ethernet
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2020-10-11T12:59:44 < qyx> https://www.mouser.sk/ProductDetail/TE-Connectivity/2294415-1?qs=%2Fha2pyFadugxhyrbQ%252BmFbDw3CjdfVWdpL6QJ7%252BWALU59TjfCB17kqg==&utm_source=oemsecrets&utm_medium=aggregator&utm_campaign=571-2294415-1&utm_content=TE+Connectivity&tetid=MyVIMjmIWo
2020-10-11T13:00:01 < qyx> comparable to microfit in size
2020-10-11T13:00:43 < qyx> except I cannot fit them side-by-side because the plug is wider
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2020-10-11T13:20:44 < qyx> or even ethernet ix, cat 6a
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2020-10-11T14:10:16 < kakibitch> brave browser any good?
2020-10-11T14:10:47 < kakibitch> it has some blockchain advertising token system thing
2020-10-11T14:11:09 < kakibitch> but is it just chromium + that plugin?
2020-10-11T14:32:26 < Steffanx> Fuck it.
2020-10-11T14:36:49 < kakibitch> I would like still to exit botnet
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2020-10-11T14:44:57 < kakibitch> how is your sunday?
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2020-10-11T14:48:59 < Steffanx> Rainy very Rainy. How about yours mr kakibitch 
2020-10-11T14:49:13 < kakibitch> rainy
2020-10-11T14:49:24 < kakibitch> I should be working but instead I'm studying
2020-10-11T14:49:25 < Steffanx> But the cat is keeping my lap warm
2020-10-11T14:49:28 < kakibitch> and youtubes
2020-10-11T14:49:32 < Steffanx> Studying?
2020-10-11T14:49:37 < kakibitch> uni courses
2020-10-11T14:50:17 < Steffanx> What courses?
2020-10-11T14:50:22 < Steffanx> Home studying
2020-10-11T14:50:23 < Steffanx> ?
2020-10-11T14:50:24 < kakibitch> some computer science courses I can blast through in couple of days
2020-10-11T14:50:42 < antto> i think this was on a sunday https://i.imgur.com/2E9Hv6t.jpg
2020-10-11T14:50:43 < kakibitch> before math courses start
2020-10-11T14:51:01 < kakibitch> home of course going physically to school is so 2019
2020-10-11T14:51:33 < kakibitch> my friend is about to get his masters degree and he visits school like once a month
2020-10-11T14:52:34 < Steffanx> So kakibitch goes back to school. Hm
2020-10-11T14:53:24 < kakibitch> I remember when I was last time in school the weekly tasks had to be returned to mailboxes at school
2020-10-11T14:53:38 < kakibitch> apparently those are much less now
2020-10-11T14:53:52 < kakibitch> but of course there are courses that require presense
2020-10-11T14:54:28 < Steffanx> Real uni or just those random online courses?
2020-10-11T14:56:06 < kakibitch> real uni random courses
2020-10-11T14:56:26 < kakibitch> if I get 24points of so I'm real student then
2020-10-11T14:56:30 < kakibitch> *or so
2020-10-11T14:57:08 < Steffanx> Cool. What will it be? CS? EE? Pro IRC?
2020-10-11T14:57:09 < kakibitch> actually I'm student there already it has never been canceled because it's uni
2020-10-11T14:57:24 < kakibitch> but I take this path
2020-10-11T14:58:18 < kakibitch> automation Steffanx
2020-10-11T14:58:23 < kakibitch> there is no EE
2020-10-11T14:59:46 < Steffanx> Why back to school instead of work? Dont feel smart enough?
2020-10-11T15:01:44 < kakibitch> yes
2020-10-11T15:01:48 < Steffanx> Hm
2020-10-11T15:05:52 < kakibitch> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yp36e78ZpWs musics
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2020-10-11T15:28:58 < kakibitch> brb>
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2020-10-11T15:47:05 < englishman> I thought kako had a job for a while there
2020-10-11T15:50:13 < kakisback> in uni?
2020-10-11T15:50:23 < kakisback> 8)  no
2020-10-11T15:54:52 < kakisback> I had a job but I fired myself
2020-10-11T15:54:57 < kakisback> not at uni
2020-10-11T16:09:45 < kakisback> englishman: what did you think?
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2020-10-11T16:17:44 < kakisback> apparently I have missed a scifi/thriller masterpiece
2020-10-11T16:18:12 < kakisback> Stalker (1979)
2020-10-11T16:19:53 < Steffanx> Is it even in color?
2020-10-11T16:21:51 < kakisback> apparently
2020-10-11T16:34:08 < kakisback> qyx: did you figure out the pci-e contact issue?
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2020-10-11T16:55:05 < englishman> you fired yourself?
2020-10-11T16:55:17 < englishman> I thought you got an apartment and stuff
2020-10-11T16:56:11 < Steffanx> He evicted himself as well
2020-10-11T16:57:47 < englishman> did he find success elsewhere
2020-10-11T17:02:12 < Steffanx> On the tractor.
2020-10-11T17:09:09 < Steffanx> Farmermir. 
2020-10-11T17:26:19 < kakisback> not good at it
2020-10-11T17:26:26 < kakisback> or just good
2020-10-11T17:29:25 < Steffanx> not good at what?
2020-10-11T17:30:25  * qyx innovating https://bin.jvnv.net/file/ck8Q8.JPG
2020-10-11T17:31:34 < kakisback> €€
2020-10-11T17:33:02 < qyx> kakisback: not yet
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2020-10-11T17:45:58 < kakisback> I mean that hw is €€
2020-10-11T17:46:07 < kakisback> even that box
2020-10-11T17:46:54 < kakisback> pa66-gf30 or something?
2020-10-11T17:47:26 < qyx> pelicase 1150
2020-10-11T17:47:34 < qyx> it is PP, presumably GF
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2020-10-11T17:50:45 < Cracki> memetic model numbers
2020-10-11T17:54:03 < kakisback> it's PP but I have never head about PP-GF
2020-10-11T17:54:08 < kakisback> heard
2020-10-11T17:54:12 < kakisback> is it a thing?
2020-10-11T17:55:49 < qyx> actually they say PP, but it looks like PP-GF
2020-10-11T17:56:05 < kakisback> it might be just the process making it look like GF
2020-10-11T17:58:14 < qyx> so MP157 has a mipi-dsi port
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2020-10-11T18:22:21 < Steffanx> Did you watch Spy Game yet in the mean time kakisback?
2020-10-11T18:35:11 < antto> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_lmtWouKlLg
2020-10-11T18:35:18 < antto> it's saint kaki, b*tch
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2020-10-11T19:33:37 < kakisback> Steffanx: no
2020-10-11T19:34:11 < Steffanx> Better get started then kakisback
2020-10-11T19:34:17 < kakisback> no
2020-10-11T19:34:37 < kakisback> I finish next week course tasks
2020-10-11T19:34:48 < kakisback> then play CS:GO with random russians
2020-10-11T19:35:12 < kakisback> then I re-reel my optical cables to bigger spools
2020-10-11T19:40:10 < Steffanx> Russians are the best indeed
2020-10-11T19:43:02 < mawk> I found a woordenboek in the street Steffanx 
2020-10-11T19:43:06 < mawk> in two volumes
2020-10-11T19:43:16 < mawk> I soon will master dutchspreek
2020-10-11T19:44:00 < Steffanx> Great
2020-10-11T19:44:09 < Steffanx> Vandalen?
2020-10-11T19:44:13 < Steffanx> Van dale.
2020-10-11T19:44:16 < Steffanx> Damnit 
2020-10-11T19:49:42 < mawk> ANWB woordenboek
2020-10-11T19:49:54 < mawk> a bit weird that a cycle association would make a dictionary but it looks nice
2020-10-11T19:49:59 < mawk> they made it for their 100th anniversary
2020-10-11T19:50:23 < mawk> it looks like a rare piece since google doesn't know about it
2020-10-11T19:50:26  * mawk is going to get rich
2020-10-11T19:51:49  * qyx is not
2020-10-11T19:55:57 < Steffanx> Anwb is more than that mawk
2020-10-11T19:56:15 < mawk> yeah but their prerogatives do not include making dictionnarioes
2020-10-11T19:56:16 < Steffanx> And its more known for car related shit
2020-10-11T19:56:32 < Steffanx> It does. Theyre also into travelling and shit
2020-10-11T19:56:37 < mawk> noooooo
2020-10-11T19:56:40 < mawk> google doesn't know abour ir
2020-10-11T19:57:01 < mawk> when you type "anwb woordenboek" you find the definition of "anwb" in the woordenboek
2020-10-11T19:57:15 < mawk> so I have an extremely rare piece that will make me immensely rich
2020-10-11T19:57:17 < mawk> from 1983
2020-10-11T19:57:23 < mawk> do not kill my dream
2020-10-11T19:58:13 < Steffanx> ok mwk4
2020-10-11T19:58:22 < mawk> :(
2020-10-11T19:58:27 < mawk> that's not me
2020-10-11T19:58:32 < mawk> I'm a 100% straight XY male
2020-10-11T19:58:38 < mawk> well maybe 95%
2020-10-11T19:58:41 < mawk> to give a margin of error
2020-10-11T19:59:59 < Steffanx> more like 80%
2020-10-11T20:00:05 < mawk> :(
2020-10-11T20:28:56 < englishman> spy game that old Robert Redford and Brad Pitt movie?
2020-10-11T20:29:03 < englishman> it was pretty good
2020-10-11T20:30:13 < englishman> the old 68 Porsche was nice
2020-10-11T20:31:23 < englishman> tony Scott's movies were all pretty good shame he killed himself
2020-10-11T20:31:43 < Steffanx> Yeah that one
2020-10-11T20:37:04 < boddax> 7°7'30" are sexygesimal expressed right?
2020-10-11T20:41:34 < mawk> probably
2020-10-11T20:41:41 < mawk> if you meant 7 + 7/60 + 30/3600
2020-10-11T20:41:55 < mawk> ok boddax ?
2020-10-11T20:48:58 < Cracki> s3xy
2020-10-11T20:49:23 < Cracki> model 3 is model 3 because the roadster was model 1
2020-10-11T20:49:46 < Cracki> he should have written 1, 2, 4 on the pigs in his neuralink presentation
2020-10-11T21:08:07 < boddax> yess mawk correct ..look like tht
2020-10-11T21:11:43 < Steffanx> So hows the machine dail thingy project going mr boddax?
2020-10-11T21:14:43 < boddax> did 2 version  mechanical (actually with 3D printer )  working fine soon make it metal , and the electronic with encoder still work on it
2020-10-11T21:33:45 < Steffanx> no pics?
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2020-10-11T22:03:16 < boddax> ok tomorrow when im back to lab ill shot
2020-10-11T22:04:09 < Steffanx> Lab... serious stuff 
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2020-10-11T23:11:24 < disruptivenl> hi all
2020-10-11T23:11:46 < disruptivenl> I am struggling with VREF and placing the STM32F407VET6 in a schematic
2020-10-11T23:13:03 < PaulFertser> What's unclear about it?
2020-10-11T23:13:22 < disruptivenl> https://usercontent.irccloud-cdn.com/file/JHwi4Xlb/image.png
2020-10-11T23:13:40 < disruptivenl> is this an option?
2020-10-11T23:14:26 < PaulFertser> Is what an option?
2020-10-11T23:14:55 < disruptivenl> Connecting the VREF like I did in the schematic
2020-10-11T23:15:04 < disruptivenl> CAP 10nF
2020-10-11T23:15:11 < disruptivenl> between VDDA and VREF
2020-10-11T23:15:34 < disruptivenl> and R0 which I can solder? Or do I have to delete R0 and make the connection anyway?
2020-10-11T23:16:02 < PaulFertser> There's no R0 in your png.
2020-10-11T23:16:31 < PaulFertser> Also, if you have a dedicated analog power why would you connect Vref pin to digital one?
2020-10-11T23:16:48 < disruptivenl> https://usercontent.irccloud-cdn.com/file/BEw06pK1/image.png
2020-10-11T23:17:01 < disruptivenl> You are right something went wrong with copying
2020-10-11T23:17:41 < PaulFertser> Still no R0
2020-10-11T23:17:48 < disruptivenl> I have a +3V3 on VDD and VBAT which comes from an LDO and buck converter
2020-10-11T23:18:02 < disruptivenl> 0R 
2020-10-11T23:18:20 < PaulFertser> And what about +3.3VA ?
2020-10-11T23:18:56 < disruptivenl> https://usercontent.irccloud-cdn.com/file/a6GIRdXd/image.png
2020-10-11T23:20:00 < PaulFertser> Can't see +3.3VA there
2020-10-11T23:20:17 < disruptivenl> +3.3VA I did not "model" just yet
2020-10-11T23:20:41 < disruptivenl> I was struggling with VDDA and VREF
2020-10-11T23:20:44 < PaulFertser> Well, what is your plan regarding that?
2020-10-11T23:20:54 < disruptivenl> I am reading this: http://www.efton.sk/STM32/STM32_VREF.pdf
2020-10-11T23:20:56 < PaulFertser> I think you should consult family reference manual for details.
2020-10-11T23:21:21 < disruptivenl> Well I thought VREF was for ADC (Say I want to "measure") a voltage and for ADC functionality
2020-10-11T23:21:26 < PaulFertser> It has recommendations regarding connections and layout.
2020-10-11T23:21:32 < disruptivenl> VSSA is common GND
2020-10-11T23:22:08 < PaulFertser> Are you sure you are going to have properly separated digital and analog powers?
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2020-10-11T23:23:39 < disruptivenl> I thought (in my mind... but I am new to this) that using the buck and filtered LDO that the VREF couldbe (analog and digital) by the same power supply
2020-10-11T23:24:07 < disruptivenl> so maybe +3.3VA is equivalent with +3V3
2020-10-11T23:24:43 < disruptivenl> Or is the VDDA and VREF (if connected) is comming from the STM32?
2020-10-11T23:26:02 < disruptivenl> page 137 is not clear to me
2020-10-11T23:26:06 < steverrrr> you definitely need to supply VDDA, learned that the hard way
2020-10-11T23:26:09 < disruptivenl> https://www.st.com/resource/en/datasheet/dm00037051.pdf
2020-10-11T23:26:30 < disruptivenl> so I could use +3V3 on VDDA?
2020-10-11T23:26:48 < disruptivenl> and VREF also (with 10nF capacitor)?
2020-10-11T23:28:52 < disruptivenl> I found this:
2020-10-11T23:28:53 < disruptivenl> https://usercontent.irccloud-cdn.com/file/bPevK0Vp/image.png
2020-10-11T23:29:44 < Steffanx> Isnt there this stm32 pcb design guide?
2020-10-11T23:29:56 < mawk> yes
2020-10-11T23:30:01 < Steffanx> Also having a look at the nucleo or discovery boards wont hury
2020-10-11T23:30:03 < Steffanx> Hurt
2020-10-11T23:30:13 < mawk> I was walking in the street earlier Steffanx 
2020-10-11T23:30:22 < Steffanx> Ohno you died?
2020-10-11T23:30:22 < mawk> and I saw a guy with a nucleo-32 through the window
2020-10-11T23:30:31 < mawk> there is a stm32head in delft
2020-10-11T23:30:35 < mawk> we must track him down
2020-10-11T23:30:37 < disruptivenl> oke i will thank you
2020-10-11T23:30:40 < disruptivenl> (nucleo)
2020-10-11T23:30:45 < Steffanx> Heh all those smart guys in delft..
2020-10-11T23:30:50 < PaulFertser> mawk: you could just knock on his window and make friends :)
2020-10-11T23:30:56 < mawk> lol
2020-10-11T23:31:06 < mawk> there was an old grumpy lady at the other side of the window
2020-10-11T23:31:12 < Steffanx> I recall someone called "rew" was around here a while back. Hes from Delft
2020-10-11T23:31:13 < mawk> so I didn't hang out further in front
2020-10-11T23:31:23 < PaulFertser> I once was riding in an underground train and saw a guy compiling Gentoo on EeePC
2020-10-11T23:31:25 < mawk> so rew has a grumpy old mom
2020-10-11T23:31:30 < mawk> lol
2020-10-11T23:31:42 < Steffanx> PaulFertser: i have a question for yoy
2020-10-11T23:31:47 < Steffanx> You.
2020-10-11T23:31:49 < PaulFertser> I started talking to him and we discussed it a bit, and then one of us had to go. I never learnt his name.
2020-10-11T23:31:57 < Steffanx> Or actually multiple questions 
2020-10-11T23:32:10 < disruptivenl> the nucleo seems to have an inductor
2020-10-11T23:32:25 < Steffanx> Do you consider yourself a real russian PaulFertser ?
2020-10-11T23:32:27 < mawk> you can do away with most of the things you see probably disruptivenl 
2020-10-11T23:32:29 < mawk> it all depends on usage
2020-10-11T23:32:36 < mawk> see the design guide
2020-10-11T23:33:01 < PaulFertser> Steffanx: I consider myself to be a free software enthusiast and a push bike rider.
2020-10-11T23:33:16 < Steffanx> No that irrelevant.
2020-10-11T23:33:27 < Steffanx> Second question: how are you today, PaulFertser ?
2020-10-11T23:33:32  * mawk googles push bike
2020-10-11T23:34:05 < PaulFertser> Steffanx: feeling a bit like I got some mild cold but ok other than that, why?
2020-10-11T23:34:30 < PaulFertser> Steffanx: I'd be happy to answer your question in a more relevant way but please rephrase it.
2020-10-11T23:34:54 < Steffanx> Nah, I had a discussion with a russian a while back and he said its very common to tell the truth when someone asks "how are you today"
2020-10-11T23:35:21 < Steffanx> While in my part of the world its always "im good" "im ok" or any form of that
2020-10-11T23:35:41 < Steffanx> I was wondering if you can confirm that (about your part of the world)
2020-10-11T23:35:44 < mawk> when people ask "how are you" I just don't answer
2020-10-11T23:35:49 < mawk> since nobody expects an answer anyway
2020-10-11T23:36:10 < Steffanx> Youre french
2020-10-11T23:36:59 < PaulFertser> Steffanx: there's a joke that "a bore is somebody who starts telling you about his day when you ask him how he is" or something like that. I think it depends on personality of whom you ask and on the relationship specifics.
2020-10-11T23:37:37 < Steffanx> So its not THAT common in Russia to do so.
2020-10-11T23:37:39 < PaulFertser> Steffanx: many people wouldn't hide the truth if they're feeling bad or pissed or whatever they're unlikely to answer "I'm fine".
2020-10-11T23:37:53 < Steffanx> But you did 😛
2020-10-11T23:38:07 < PaulFertser> I didn't say I'm fine
2020-10-11T23:38:20 < Steffanx> No, you were more specific
2020-10-11T23:38:45 < Steffanx> More specific then good, ok, fine etc.
2020-10-11T23:38:55 < PaulFertser> You certainly shouldn't assume I'm a typical russian.
2020-10-11T23:39:06 < Steffanx> Ill have to continue my research on this matter than
2020-10-11T23:39:11 < PaulFertser> I'm a geek nitpicker.
2020-10-11T23:39:31 < Steffanx> Yeah that is known
2020-10-11T23:39:56 < PaulFertser> Typical russian wouldn't be able to hold a conversation with you :(
2020-10-11T23:40:38 < Steffanx> Lol. Because his English would suck more than mine?
2020-10-11T23:41:06 < PaulFertser> 10x more, yes
2020-10-11T23:41:57 < Steffanx> Dont russian teenagers get to learn english om highschool?
2020-10-11T23:42:42 < Steffanx> I noticed in online gaming that most Russians barely speak english (while some can even speak without the standard russian accent)
2020-10-11T23:43:02 < PaulFertser> Steffanx: also, in russian we mostly do not say "how do you do" or "how are you" or "how was your day" as a greeting. It's either "good morning/day/evening" or "hi/hello" or "what'sup" and so it's natural to expect some reasonably elaborate answer when asking "how are you today".
2020-10-11T23:43:24 < Steffanx> "How is mood" 
2020-10-11T23:43:46 < PaulFertser> That's a specific enough question, it's likely to be answered.
2020-10-11T23:44:11 < disruptivenl> This seems an option
2020-10-11T23:44:12 < disruptivenl> https://usercontent.irccloud-cdn.com/file/1vuPTwKv/image.png
2020-10-11T23:44:17 < PaulFertser> I think English is taught throughout the school, from age 7, but in a rather ineffective way apparently.
2020-10-11T23:44:53 < PaulFertser> disruptivenl: yes, that's the sane way of doing it unless you really need separate analog power supply.
2020-10-11T23:45:06 < disruptivenl> nu I want to use the same 
2020-10-11T23:45:13 < disruptivenl> nu=no
2020-10-11T23:46:00 < Steffanx> Dont forget to add decoupling to all of your vdd pins mr disruptivenl  
2020-10-11T23:47:25 < PaulFertser> mawk: I use "push bike" as a "humourous" way of pretending I'm Laurenceb's grandfather or something like that.
2020-10-11T23:47:48 < disruptivenl> Oke Steffanx!
2020-10-11T23:48:18 < PaulFertser> That's even more absurd because both my bikes have clip-in pedals.
2020-10-11T23:48:23 < Steffanx> I bought myself a new bicycle yesterday. Now i have to wait for it to arrive
2020-10-11T23:48:35 < PaulFertser> Steffanx: congrats! What is it?
2020-10-11T23:48:36 < disruptivenl> https://usercontent.irccloud-cdn.com/file/0EBBGg4B/image.png
2020-10-11T23:48:46 < Steffanx> Nothing too special
2020-10-11T23:48:51 < PaulFertser> And why did you want it?
2020-10-11T23:48:55 < Steffanx> A "cross hybrid" 
2020-10-11T23:49:14 < PaulFertser> hydraulic disc brakes?
2020-10-11T23:49:25 < Steffanx> So mainly for street use, but not bad for offroad trips
2020-10-11T23:49:28 < Steffanx> Yeah
2020-10-11T23:49:36 < PaulFertser> What's the weight?
2020-10-11T23:50:29 < Steffanx> 13.02 kg
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2020-10-11T23:52:10 < Steffanx> I wanted a bike that has a slightly more relaxing "position" than my  road race bicycle (or whatever the proper english name is)
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2020-10-11T23:54:42 < PaulFertser> Steffanx: yeah, I can understand the appeal. Does it have mud guards?
2020-10-11T23:55:56 < Steffanx> https://www.merida.nl/kale+hybride/crossway-300-matt-fog-green-dark-green/2021/
2020-10-11T23:56:08 < Steffanx> Not by default PaulFertser 
2020-10-11T23:56:41 < PaulFertser> Are you going to install ?
2020-10-11T23:56:53 < Steffanx> Not sure yet
2020-10-11T23:57:10 < Steffanx> Maybe something detachable 
2020-10-11T23:57:30 < Steffanx> Not sure i like a muddy ass
2020-10-11T23:58:20 < PaulFertser> Steffanx: what makes it better for you than a 29" MTB?
2020-10-11T23:58:42 < Steffanx> I dont have an mtb
2020-10-11T23:59:07 < PaulFertser> In any case, congrats, that seems to be a nice bike.
2020-10-11T23:59:51 < Steffanx> Its just a way to get of my arse more in a more comfortable position than my other one
--- Day changed Mon Oct 12 2020
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2020-10-12T00:00:29 < Steffanx> Ok. Not exactly of my arse, but.. outside more ;)
2020-10-12T00:02:09 < PaulFertser> When I was buying a bike last time, it was middle of December, and after spending time assembling it I had to ride for about 10 km. Damn, was it muddy! The streets in moscow are usually treated with salt so there's no ice but riding without mud guards quickly made me look like those MTB racers.
2020-10-12T00:03:02 < Steffanx> Yeah, I looked at some detachable ones, but.. not sure yet
2020-10-12T00:04:03 < PaulFertser> Steffanx: do you also have something cheap for commuting/shopping?
2020-10-12T00:04:19 < Steffanx> Not anymore.
2020-10-12T00:04:42 < PaulFertser> I hope not stolen
2020-10-12T00:04:47 < Steffanx> I had 2 of those, but those got stolen. And now i have a car -_-
2020-10-12T00:05:18 < PaulFertser> Who the hell steals bikes there?
2020-10-12T00:06:21 < Steffanx> One of them was kinda my own fault. I lost the key one so I used an angle grinder.. never got myself a new lock so i left it unlocked :D
2020-10-12T00:06:33 < Steffanx> Then it got stolen at the train station
2020-10-12T00:06:44 < Steffanx> Once*
2020-10-12T00:07:25 < Steffanx> The other one was stolen at the same train station. All I had left was the lock and its chain.
2020-10-12T00:07:43 < PaulFertser> Cut chain?
2020-10-12T00:07:48 < Steffanx> Yeah
2020-10-12T00:07:56 < PaulFertser> Who does that, drug addicts?
2020-10-12T00:08:11 < Steffanx> I bet someone got 50-100 euro bucks for that bicycle
2020-10-12T00:08:28 < Steffanx> No, probably some more organised crime
2020-10-12T00:09:15 < PaulFertser> Mine was stolen from a guarded university car parking lot. I thought locking it was not necessary there, but apparently when it's dark the guards were not able to spot someone taking my bike from under their noses :(
2020-10-12T00:09:33 < Steffanx> No really that much junkies where i live
2020-10-12T00:10:56 < Steffanx> Many*
2020-10-12T00:11:43 < Steffanx> I never bothered going to the police for this. Waste of energy
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2020-10-12T00:12:26 < PaulFertser> Did you read "Junkie" by Burroughs?
2020-10-12T00:12:38 < Steffanx> Nope
2020-10-12T00:14:43 < PaulFertser> I can't remember if I did. Reading him is hard.
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2020-10-12T00:20:46 < zyp> I got myself one of this kind of locks: https://www.trelock.com/en/lock/locks/ring-locks/ring-locks/rs453-az-black-zr20, takes care of the «didn't bother to lock it» issue
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2020-10-12T00:23:42 < zyp> takes a second to lock it if I'm just gonna leave it outside a store or something for a few minutes, a few more seconds to hook up the tethering wire as well if I want to attach it to something
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2020-10-12T00:24:43 < zyp> apart from that I simply don't leave it outside overnight
2020-10-12T00:34:43 < Steffanx> Yeah, I think my 2nd bike actually had that.
2020-10-12T00:35:10 < Steffanx> The first two but i used the angle grinder on it :P
2020-10-12T00:35:23 < Steffanx> Two=too
2020-10-12T00:35:35 < PaulFertser> Steffanx: why did you decide to not get some 8-gears Nexus hub or something like that?
2020-10-12T00:35:36 < Steffanx> Almost all regular bikes here have it
2020-10-12T00:37:32 < Steffanx> I dont recall even seeing those
2020-10-12T00:37:36 < Steffanx> PaulFertser 
2020-10-12T00:38:42 < Steffanx> And Rohloff stuff is a completely different price category 
2020-10-12T00:39:22 < PaulFertser> Steffanx: I know some hub gearboxes allow to switch under load, aren't they ideal for your usecase?
2020-10-12T00:44:47 < Steffanx> Im not sure. Didnt REALLY look into since it all seemes to be in a higher price category
2020-10-12T00:44:55 < Steffanx> Money i wasnt willing to spend
2020-10-12T00:45:08 < Steffanx> Ive always had derailleur based
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2020-10-12T00:45:12 < Steffanx> Im fine with that
2020-10-12T00:46:50  * PaulFertser too
2020-10-12T00:48:06 < Steffanx> Seemed*
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2020-10-12T01:23:13 < Cracki> oh the retardation, stahp! https://twitter.com/wayotworld/status/1315367609257340928
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2020-10-12T01:46:37 < karlp> heh, yeah, hub gears look and soudn great until you see the prices.
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2020-10-12T02:12:11 < qyx> https://bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/bugreport.cgi?bug=928956
2020-10-12T02:12:14 < qyx> fucnking systemd
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2020-10-12T02:50:05 < karlp> ok, progress.  can write first page, but not properlyt eraseing pages now.  
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2020-10-12T02:58:15 < karlp> sweet, ok, downloading works, reasonably quick too
2020-10-12T02:58:29 < karlp> just have to fix uploading I guess, easier to verify that way than gdb verify sections
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2020-10-12T03:07:33 < karlp> weird, dfu-tool can read 64k, and then stops, no idea reads properly, dfu-util will only read 16k, but what it reads is correct.
2020-10-12T03:07:36 < karlp> tools are weird
2020-10-12T03:14:14 < karlp> ahha, had to fix the magic dfu strings, now it erases properly on the way
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2020-10-12T08:34:29 < qyx> karlp: what are you innovating?
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2020-10-12T10:05:38 < jadew> man... google is censored to shit
2020-10-12T10:06:41 < jadew> apparently there's a controversy regarding some comments JK Rowling made about trans and if you search her name you only find what others said about her (condemning her)
2020-10-12T10:07:03 < jadew> if you start searching "JK Rowling comments" it doesn't autocomplete with the relevant thing
2020-10-12T10:07:20 < jadew> they don't want you to find the actual comments
2020-10-12T10:08:09 < jadew> duckduckgo, bing and yahoo they all autocomplete with "on trans"
2020-10-12T10:08:21 < jadew> that option is completely missing on google
2020-10-12T10:11:55 < jadew> that's in line with when they changed the definition for fascism
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2020-10-12T10:21:43 < mawk> yeah jadew 
2020-10-12T10:21:58 < mawk> now if that entity wasn't controlling access to knowledge that wouldn't be so scary
2020-10-12T10:22:19 < mawk> and if that entity didn't have access to data of almost the whole world population either
2020-10-12T10:24:51 < jadew> yeah, google is skynet
2020-10-12T10:28:29 < jadew> anyway, this crap is keeping me from doing actual work
2020-10-12T10:28:36  * jadew gets back to work
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2020-10-12T10:48:17 < jadew> I just switched to duckduckgo as my default search engine
2020-10-12T10:48:55 < qyx> I would too
2020-10-12T10:49:02 < qyx> but ddg cannot find some other obvious things
2020-10-12T10:49:34 < jadew> I know, google's algo is on a different level, but then again, it might hide crap from me
2020-10-12T10:49:59 < qyx> maybe it improved
2020-10-12T10:50:03 < qyx> I may try again too
2020-10-12T10:50:12 < jadew> it could be, I think they're getting a lot of traffic
2020-10-12T10:50:38 < jadew> somehow a bad algo seems more reliable than one which hides lots of information from you
2020-10-12T10:50:54 < jadew> *relevant information
2020-10-12T11:03:28 < PaulFertser> qyx: when i'm not happy with ddg results I add !g to the search string and it redirects to google
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2020-10-12T11:44:24 < qyx> lol
2020-10-12T11:45:33 < PaulFertser> I also often use !wiki , !wiktionary , !urban , !cppreference , !hoogle , !gimages
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2020-10-12T12:06:17 < qyx> I ordered some ground plane intependent lora antennas
2020-10-12T12:06:27 < qyx> I hope they are more than a quarter-dipole wire inside
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2020-10-12T12:21:03 < karlp> qyx: nothing much, just porting some dfu examples from f1 to l1, and making sure things work properly.
2020-10-12T12:21:26 < karlp> qyx: and learning a little more about dfu standard and what st added.
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2020-10-12T14:41:40 < karlp> heh, doh.  just realised I don't have any path for my app to return to dfu mode... 
2020-10-12T14:41:48 < karlp> whatevs, can fix that later.
2020-10-12T14:41:55 < karlp> back to real work...
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2020-10-12T16:44:35 < Cracki> oh aliex... ordered something in may, didn't arrive until september, had to dispute, now a package arrives. seller must have resent it without telling me. I'd have waited some more.
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2020-10-12T17:01:49 < qyx> I am still waiting grow LEDs ordered in November
2020-10-12T17:01:51 < qyx> *for
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2020-10-12T17:04:19 < Cracki> wew that's long
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2020-10-12T17:05:26  * qyx doing 5S
2020-10-12T17:05:45 < qyx> cleanup
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2020-10-12T17:43:05 < mawk> growing what
2020-10-12T17:44:26 < Cracki> hemp surely
2020-10-12T17:44:37 < Cracki> or maybe he's growing peppers
2020-10-12T17:47:18 < mawk> I'm trying to plat sparse data
2020-10-12T17:47:28 < mawk> so, without having all the clusters linked by ugly straight line segments
2020-10-12T17:47:36 < mawk> I guess I have to do some dummy clustering
2020-10-12T17:47:44 < mawk> alongside one axis that must be easy
2020-10-12T18:15:00 < Cracki> isnan() or something for a mask, then diff the mask to get starts and ends of runs, then you can take nonzero() of that to get a bunch of indices alternatingly start/end or end/start depending on how it starts?
2020-10-12T18:15:42 < Cracki> maybe your plotting library has a way to suppress zeros/nans and not draw lines across them
2020-10-12T18:23:03 < mawk> yes matplotlib doesn't draw lines across nan
2020-10-12T18:23:39 < mawk> but I mean the values look like [1, 1.1, 1.3, 1.5, 12, 12.5, 12.7, 24, 25, 32, 32.1, 32.5]
2020-10-12T18:24:08 < mawk> there's no nan in it, but if you asked a human he would partition it like [[1, 1.1, 1.3, 1.5], [12, 12.5, 12.7], [24, 25], [32, 32.1, 32.5]]
2020-10-12T18:24:14 < mawk> which is what I would want to do
2020-10-12T18:27:01 < mawk> if I get all consecutive distances it's [0.1, 0.2, 0.2, 10.5, 0.5, 0.2, 11.3, 1, 7, 0.1, 0.4], it's clear for instance if I take 5 as a limit, everytime two values are separated by a distance more than 5 it defines a new cluster
2020-10-12T18:27:10 < mawk> but how to find that 5
2020-10-12T18:27:45 < mawk> just using the average probably
2020-10-12T18:32:48 < mawk> seems to work okay
2020-10-12T18:34:43 < Cracki> ah, jumps
2020-10-12T18:35:10 < Cracki> "find" the threshold, uh
2020-10-12T18:35:58 < Cracki> hm well I remember some vague things from class about the theory behind otsu thresholding. they're separating a distribution such that the individual distributions' standard deviations are minimized
2020-10-12T18:36:06 < karlp> or... don't put them in the same data series?
2020-10-12T18:36:16 < Cracki> maybe take a look at some explanations of otsu thr.
2020-10-12T18:36:33 < Cracki> that is a kind of clustering
2020-10-12T18:36:43 < Cracki> I think you could even throw kmeans at it
2020-10-12T18:36:46 < karlp> or, don't draw _any_ lines between them? problem solved?
2020-10-12T18:36:53 < karlp> just change the linestyule to points only?
2020-10-12T18:39:38 < mawk> yes I guess that could work but it would be a bit confusing, in the same window I already draw a scatter plot, and a real one this time
2020-10-12T18:40:20 < karlp> stop doing that then? :)
2020-10-12T18:40:23 < mawk> minimizing individual standard deviations sounds like a job for dynamic programming
2020-10-12T18:40:30 < mawk> well I need both plots lol
2020-10-12T18:40:33 < Cracki> >>> >>> criteria = (cv.TERM_CRITERIA_EPS + cv.TERM_CRITERIA_MAX_ITER, 10, 1.0); cv.kmeans(np.float32([0.1, 0.2, 0.2, 10.5, 0.5, 0.2, 11.3, 1, 7, 0.1, 0.4]), 2, None, criteria, 10, cv.KMEANS_RANDOM_CENTERS)
2020-10-12T18:40:38 < karlp> you're allowed to have more than one plot you know....
2020-10-12T18:40:44 < karlp> use colours?
2020-10-12T18:41:03 < mawk> yes I mean it's already two separate plots, one on top of the other
2020-10-12T18:41:17 < mawk> ah yes that seems to do the job Cracki 
2020-10-12T18:41:34 < Cracki> that assumes the jumps to be of comparable size
2020-10-12T18:41:38 < mawk> I hope they won't look too close in code review "why are you importing opencv for an aesthetic change??? you're fired"
2020-10-12T18:41:41 < Cracki> and same sign too
2020-10-12T18:41:48 < mawk> yeah same sign
2020-10-12T18:41:50 < Cracki> scipy has this likely
2020-10-12T18:42:00 < mawk> yeah in scikit-learn
2020-10-12T18:42:01 < Cracki> kmeans clustering is not specific to image processing
2020-10-12T18:44:27 < Cracki> maybe you could set the line transparency between to points to be proportional to vertical distance. effect would be somewhat like an oscilloscope
2020-10-12T18:44:33 < Cracki> *two points
2020-10-12T18:44:45 < mawk> ah yes that could look nice
2020-10-12T18:46:27 < Cracki> story: my lab partner in some undergrad lab wondered why the scope wouldn't draw vertical lines on a rectangular signal. he expected it to act like a plotter, not like a beam moving across constantly and independntly being deflected vertically
2020-10-12T18:46:49 < Cracki> *square wave sig
2020-10-12T18:49:19 < Cracki> people are surprised by "sudden darkness" in winter time because DST tells them it's still light at 6pm when it's really only 5pm and sunset's almost here
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2020-10-12T19:00:22 < Cracki> consider a 24h clock, noon is actually noon. DST makes the face tilt to the left, so noon is now 1pm. same goes for all the reddish places on that map: https://i.dailymail.co.uk/i/pix/2014/03/03/article-2572317-1C01C1F900000578-96_964x492.jpg
2020-10-12T19:02:22 < Cracki> in fall, when sun sets somewhere around 5pm solar time (and rises around 7am), the clock face lies to you and says "6pm" (respectively "8am"). after going back to "winter" ("normal") time, it suddenly says "5pm" ("7am")
2020-10-12T19:02:25 < srk> .33
2020-10-12T19:02:29 < srk> oop
2020-10-12T19:02:31 < Cracki> ps
2020-10-12T19:02:42 < Cracki> perl-like typing detected
2020-10-12T19:02:45 < srk> ps auxf
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2020-10-12T19:31:59 < karlp> hrm, one project, static uint32_t boot_flag __attribute__((section(".noinit")));
2020-10-12T19:32:18 < karlp> that goes to noinit, another project, same decl ends up in bss instead.
2020-10-12T19:32:33 < karlp> now yes, static globabls are bss, but shouldn't the attribute still work?
2020-10-12T19:33:19 < zyp> are you sure you have .noinit in linker script for both projects?
2020-10-12T19:33:24 < srk> ^
2020-10-12T19:33:32 < karlp> yeah, taking static off makes it pop up in the noinit as expected
2020-10-12T19:33:53 < zyp> have you tried objdump on the .o?
2020-10-12T19:34:15 < karlp> nott on the .o, objdump ont he elf is how I'm checking it.
2020-10-12T19:34:56 < zyp> check what the compiler emits in the .o first
2020-10-12T19:38:07 < karlp> heh, seems it magically optimized things it shouldn't have done...
2020-10-12T19:39:29 < zyp> have you told it not to?
2020-10-12T19:39:32 < karlp> https://paste.jvnv.net/view/cqKBF
2020-10-12T19:40:49 < zyp> I mean, you're declaring it static which tells the compiler it's not accessible outside the translation unit and the compiler can see it's only ever written, not read
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2020-10-12T19:41:08 < karlp> yeah, but what's it writen depends on something it can't see...
2020-10-12T19:41:10 < kakisback> hello weaboo
2020-10-12T19:41:12 < zyp> and you've not declared it as volatile either
2020-10-12T19:41:12 < karlp> or, shouldn't be able to see.
2020-10-12T19:41:29 < zyp> what do you mean?
2020-10-12T19:41:37 < karlp> it depends on req->wvalue,
2020-10-12T19:41:42 < karlp> which it shouldn't be able to know.
2020-10-12T19:42:02 < zyp> I don't see how that's relevant
2020-10-12T19:42:08 < karlp> you mean, because it's never read?
2020-10-12T19:42:11 < zyp> yes
2020-10-12T19:42:40 < zyp> compiler can confidently tell it's never read, which makes the write unnecessary
2020-10-12T19:42:41 < karlp> I guess just sprinkle more volatile.
2020-10-12T19:42:55 < zyp> or remove the static
2020-10-12T19:42:57 < karlp> even though it's not _reallllly_ voltatile
2020-10-12T19:43:02 < zyp> why do you have it as static in the first place?
2020-10-12T19:43:12 < qyx> sprinkle more volatile.
2020-10-12T19:43:12 < karlp> because it's only needed in this file, 
2020-10-12T19:43:12 < qyx> lol
2020-10-12T19:43:19 < zyp> uh, no
2020-10-12T19:43:27 < zyp> it's also needed in the file that reads boot_flag :)
2020-10-12T19:43:33 < karlp> that's a different application :)
2020-10-12T19:43:52 < zyp> doesn't change the point
2020-10-12T19:44:06 < zyp> but yeah, volatile should fix it
2020-10-12T19:44:09 < karlp> it does, as within _this_ project, it's only needed in this file,
2020-10-12T19:44:34 < karlp> and static meant that I didnn't have to worry abotu namespacing to stop other files unrelated to the boot 
2020-10-12T19:44:42 < karlp> (not that they'd ever need "boot_flag" as a variable, but...
2020-10-12T19:44:44 < zyp> compiler doesn't care whether it's this project or that project :)
2020-10-12T19:45:00 < karlp> no, but it changes things for me, to be static voltatitle, or non-static.
2020-10-12T19:45:02 < karlp> that's all.
2020-10-12T19:45:48 < zyp> I guess simply a non-static variable could get the same problem once you build with LTO
2020-10-12T19:46:01 < karlp> probably.
2020-10-12T19:46:09 < zyp> since then it'll never be read in the whole executable
2020-10-12T19:46:37 < karlp> volatile works, in my other bootloader pair, I'd obviously read things for debug or something which kepttt them in scope appropriately
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2020-10-12T19:55:47 < mawk> if you just want namespacing you can do with something else than static, karlp 
2020-10-12T19:55:57 < mawk> __attribute__((__visibility__("hidden")))
2020-10-12T19:56:15 < karlp> yeah, cos I want _more_ attributes, not less...
2020-10-12T19:56:28 < mawk> personnally I feel like a master hacker when I use attributes
2020-10-12T19:56:51 < karlp> hrm, my dfu bootloader is very good at writing files back and forth between the extra flash
2020-10-12T19:57:00 < karlp> not so good at booting apps on demand.
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2020-10-12T20:35:35 < Steffanx> kakisback have some musics: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FuFJzY10mqc
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2020-10-12T20:55:20 < kakisback> thanks steff
2020-10-12T20:57:19 < Steffanx> Your welcome kakisback
2020-10-12T20:57:23 < Steffanx> i know you love it
2020-10-12T20:57:31 < Steffanx> you're
2020-10-12T20:57:44 < antto> DAFUQ
2020-10-12T21:00:35 < antto> here's a proper one https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g6t8g6ka4W0
2020-10-12T21:01:03 < Steffanx> nah ty
2020-10-12T21:01:10 < antto> CONSUME IT
2020-10-12T21:02:20 < Steffanx> no thanks. its the one dislike the most of that guy
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2020-10-12T21:15:01 < antto> ur taste in music must be treated with a special bleach
2020-10-12T21:15:04 < antto> ;P~
2020-10-12T21:18:02 -!- delobuch is now known as comorbid_antiflo
2020-10-12T21:20:14 -!- comorbid_antiflo is now known as comorbid_enflori
2020-10-12T21:23:18 < mawk> I found a linear algebra way of doing the least squares stuff Cracki , maybe you're more familiar with that one; you define a functional scalar product (f|g) = f(x1)g(x1) + ... + f(xn)g(xn), then say you have your function to fit f, we will fit it by orthogonally projecting it onto the polynomial subspace R_n[X], so call p the orthogonal projection onto R_n[X], so p(f) is what we're looking for
2020-10-12T21:23:21 < mawk> right
2020-10-12T21:23:47 < mawk> then p(f) being an orthogonal projection of f onto R_n[x] means that for any P in R_n[X], we have (p(f)-f|P) = 0
2020-10-12T21:23:56 < mawk> meaning the vector p(f)-f is orthogonal to R_n[X]
2020-10-12T21:24:00 < Cracki> whoosh
2020-10-12T21:24:05 < Cracki> can you hear the whoosh
2020-10-12T21:24:07 < mawk> then you take P = 1, X, X², ..., X^n, that gives n equations
2020-10-12T21:24:20 < mawk> that gives immediately the matrix we penibily derived using the probabilistic approach
2020-10-12T21:24:45 < Cracki> I don't wanna encourage you to spend time explaining this to me, which is like reading poetry to a pig
2020-10-12T21:24:48 < mawk> lol
2020-10-12T21:24:55 < Cracki> but!
2020-10-12T21:24:58 < antto> <Al_Bundy/woosh.wav>
2020-10-12T21:25:02 < mawk> it's hard to read on irc but I swear it's plain old linear algebra
2020-10-12T21:25:07 < mawk> even more than that, it's just plain old geometry concepts
2020-10-12T21:25:12 < Cracki> I do remember vector spaces, of 1, x, x^2, ...
2020-10-12T21:25:18 < mawk> projection of a point onto a line is exactly the same as projection of a function onto a subspace
2020-10-12T21:25:31 < mawk> you apply what you know about geometry to this function stuff, and you get immediately the right equtions
2020-10-12T21:25:42 < Cracki> "plain old" linear algebra is in my distant past and only associated with bad things
2020-10-12T21:25:59 < mawk> lol
2020-10-12T21:26:01 < Cracki> bad teaching while getting paid for it should be a crime
2020-10-12T21:26:55 < Cracki> when you say "R_n[X]", I am immediately triggered. [] instead of something else indicates "special meaning" to me that nobody has introduced to me
2020-10-12T21:27:10 < mawk> lol
2020-10-12T21:27:14 < Cracki> this isn't asking for an introduction, just letting you know that you're using vocabulary I am not familiar with
2020-10-12T21:27:19 < mawk> it denotes the space of polynomials of degree <= n
2020-10-12T21:27:23 < mawk> I'm not aware of another notation
2020-10-12T21:27:31 < Cracki> that may be true but doesn't convey understanding
2020-10-12T21:27:35 < mawk> maybe P_n or something but I've not heard of it
2020-10-12T21:28:16 < mawk> R_n[X] = {aX^n + bX^(n-1) + ...; a, b, ... all real numbers, a != 0}
2020-10-12T21:29:33 < mawk> the only thing to understand is the geometric fact, that the vector going from a point to its projection is orthogonal to the line it's projected onto
2020-10-12T21:29:45 < mawk> which is better explained by a drawing
2020-10-12T21:33:40 < mawk> here it is
2020-10-12T21:33:43 < mawk> https://serveur.io/orthogonal.png
2020-10-12T21:33:48 < mawk> very basic geometric fact
2020-10-12T21:33:56 < mawk> (AA') is orthogonal to (f)
2020-10-12T21:34:09 < mawk> when A' is the orthogonal projection of A onto (f)
2020-10-12T21:34:22 < mawk> that's almost by definition of what an orthogonal projection is
2020-10-12T21:35:42 < mawk> so now let your mind float around and imagine that you can replace points in the 2D plane by points in the infinite dimensional plane of functions, and replace the line (f) by the subspace of all functions that are polynomials of degree <= n; this fact about orthogonality remains true, and we just use the fact verbatim to get our n equations to stuff into the matrix
2020-10-12T21:36:26 < mawk> this is the value of abstraction
2020-10-12T21:36:42 < mawk> and it's beautiful
2020-10-12T21:37:20 < Cracki> you're trying to make me eat spinach by rubbing my face in it
2020-10-12T21:37:27 < mawk> lol
2020-10-12T21:37:35 < mawk> now I'm trying to make you have a spiritual experience
2020-10-12T21:37:39 < mawk> you don't have to verify the little details
2020-10-12T21:38:20 < Cracki> you explained the little details in quite some detail but you lost me right at the beginning with the important idea
2020-10-12T21:38:36 < Cracki> the whole way I kept wondering "why why why"
2020-10-12T21:39:06 < Cracki> actually no, I'm rather disinclined to spend my evening thinking about math honestly
2020-10-12T21:39:23 < mawk> well the idea is 1) express geometric fact about orthogonality using well-known 2D geometry; 2) accept that we can transpose this fact to abstract vector spaces that are not 2D geometry anymore 3) apply the fact to get our polynomial fit 
2020-10-12T21:39:34 < Cracki> just saying. I feel bad for not caring and I would like not to
2020-10-12T21:39:49 < mawk> lol
2020-10-12T21:39:51 < Cracki> you need a 0)
2020-10-12T21:39:53 < Cracki> and -1)
2020-10-12T21:39:58 < mawk> your subconcious will work on it don't worry
2020-10-12T21:40:10 < Cracki> it won't
2020-10-12T21:40:25 < Cracki> you started out with "let's find the least squares fit of a polynomial to some points"
2020-10-12T21:40:36 < Cracki> and SUDDENLY you're talking about projections
2020-10-12T21:40:55 < mawk> yes
2020-10-12T21:41:23 < mawk> the "best fit" is defined as being the polynomial that is the closest possible to the original function
2020-10-12T21:41:40 < mawk> this calls for talking about projections, projection is the standard tool for finding closest stuff in spaces
2020-10-12T21:41:46 < Cracki> I don't know how to tell you this quite politely enough. your attempts don't address the questions I would have, if I had questions, because this stuff is simply not of relevance to me
2020-10-12T21:41:56 < zyp> sup? what math are you wanking over tonight?
2020-10-12T21:42:22 < mawk> fitting stuff to stuff
2020-10-12T21:42:33 < Cracki> ok that "closest fit = projection" _begins_ to answer the big ? over this whole thing
2020-10-12T21:43:18 < Cracki> but that MUST NOT be taken to mean "I fully understand"
2020-10-12T21:43:27 < mawk> lol
2020-10-12T21:43:34 < mawk> well the goal is to make it seem beautiful
2020-10-12T21:43:39 < mawk> not that one understands it all
2020-10-12T21:43:47 < Cracki> i'll stop here now, seriously this is doing actual damage to my appreciation of math
2020-10-12T21:44:37 < Steffanx> i never said i liked the song i posted antto ;)
2020-10-12T21:45:05 < antto> so you're just brainwashing kakim0r
2020-10-12T21:45:10 < zyp> oh, heh
2020-10-12T21:45:12 < Steffanx> Affirmative.
2020-10-12T21:45:31 < antto> he is under my protection, u shall stop immediately
2020-10-12T21:45:47 < zyp> I installed a windows 10 VM for some shit a couple of weeks ago, been wondering why it's so fucking sluggish
2020-10-12T21:46:01 < antto> zyp, wuauserv.exe?
2020-10-12T21:46:06 < antto> cortana.exe?
2020-10-12T21:46:08 < zyp> just realized I haven't looked at the cpu/mem settings of the VM and left them on defaults
2020-10-12T21:46:13 < zyp> so it got one core and 2GB ram
2020-10-12T21:46:19 < antto> aww
2020-10-12T21:46:33 < Steffanx> time for an upgrade then
2020-10-12T21:46:48 < zyp> bet it's been swapping like crazy, and I'm storing the hdd image over nfs :p
2020-10-12T21:46:53 < mawk> don't spoil your vms zyp otherwise when they grow up they will be adult babies
2020-10-12T21:46:57 < mawk> they must learn tough discipline
2020-10-12T21:47:53 < Steffanx> So dont let mawk close to your little vms please
2020-10-12T21:49:59 < mawk> :(
2020-10-12T21:50:56 < zyp> gonna try with four cores and 8GB
2020-10-12T21:51:06 < zyp> idk if that's two with HT or what
2020-10-12T21:51:23 < zyp> cpu has four with HT and vmware lets me choose 1-8
2020-10-12T21:52:51 < Steffanx> virtualbox?
2020-10-12T21:53:22 < mawk> hyperv ♥
2020-10-12T21:57:42 < englishman> BrainDamage: Good Job! on switch is pretty fun in coop
2020-10-12T21:57:57 < englishman> a bit of portal, a bit of Katamari damacy
2020-10-12T21:58:59 < zyp> okay, I think it's less sluggish
2020-10-12T22:07:20 < Steffanx> So what hypervisor do you use for this mr zyp? Are you in the fusion camp?
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2020-10-12T23:36:56 < kakisback> I mean.. trump sends me like 5 emails a day
2020-10-12T23:37:16 < kakisback> more than other emails combined
2020-10-12T23:37:41 < kakisback> also mike pence sends me emails
2020-10-12T23:38:01 < Laurenceb> what the fuck
2020-10-12T23:38:13 < Laurenceb> the Turkish air force just emailed me
2020-10-12T23:38:17 < Laurenceb> for realz
2020-10-12T23:38:25 < tcth_> elaborate?
2020-10-12T23:38:41 < Laurenceb> they want me to fit missile systems to their fighters
2020-10-12T23:38:49 < Laurenceb> what the fuck lmao
2020-10-12T23:39:06 < Steffanx> no it was your aunt Laurenceb
2020-10-12T23:39:06 < Laurenceb> well they can fuck off I'd rather fight for Assad tbh
2020-10-12T23:39:09 < Laurenceb> lol
2020-10-12T23:39:15 < Steffanx> dont confuse your hairy aunt for a turk.
2020-10-12T23:39:42 < Laurenceb> >Negotiable Hourly Rates 
2020-10-12T23:39:43 < Laurenceb> lol
2020-10-12T23:40:18 < Laurenceb> some asshole is circulating my cv
2020-10-12T23:40:35 < Cracki> they literally pay you hourly because high risk of mossading
2020-10-12T23:40:50 < Laurenceb> yeah
2020-10-12T23:40:56 < Cracki> dude you claim to be half syrian maybe their intelligence service is behind it
2020-10-12T23:41:01 < Laurenceb> heh
2020-10-12T23:41:20 < Cracki> they want you to spy on the syrians for the turks
2020-10-12T23:41:23 < Laurenceb> https://news.slashdot.org/story/20/10/12/1957251/uk-government-scraps-ad-that-encouraged-people-working-in-the-arts-to-reskill-by-turning-to-a-career-in-cybersecurity
2020-10-12T23:41:27 < Laurenceb> muh jerbs
2020-10-12T23:41:35 < Cracki> sit in air vents and peep on russian grrls browsing 4chan
2020-10-12T23:41:52 < Cracki> arts -> cybersecurity, yeah right
2020-10-12T23:41:54 < Laurenceb> >dude just use proper encryption
2020-10-12T23:42:01 < Laurenceb> like when was the last time actual pro systems were cracked
2020-10-12T23:42:27 < Cracki> >"save jobs in the arts"
2020-10-12T23:42:33 < Laurenceb> like credit cards, mobile sim cards or gps encryption
2020-10-12T23:42:46 < Cracki> commercial stuff? all the time
2020-10-12T23:42:57 < Cracki> small and huge leaks of user data all the time
2020-10-12T23:43:11 < Cracki> I heard that GSM is basically broken
2020-10-12T23:43:41 < Laurenceb> yeah but thats not very pro
2020-10-12T23:43:49 < Laurenceb> I said sim card security
2020-10-12T23:43:55 < Cracki> breaking gps "encryption" is probably illegal so only military applications for doing it
2020-10-12T23:43:58 < Laurenceb> something they actually care about
2020-10-12T23:44:02 < Laurenceb> lol
2020-10-12T23:44:25 < Laurenceb> >Anyway, it doesn't specify what "cyber" means to them. It could be cyber-sexwork. VR is very hot right now. The culture secretary isn't necessarily saying Fatima will leave the arts.
2020-10-12T23:44:35 < Cracki> >ballet dancer >Fatima >next job in tech
2020-10-12T23:44:43 < Cracki> I weep for your empire
2020-10-12T23:44:55 < Cracki> very hot right now
2020-10-12T23:45:22 < aandrew> heh you get that ad too eh
2020-10-12T23:45:35 < Cracki> >essential cyber skills >REWARDING career path
2020-10-12T23:46:31 < Cracki> yeah they mean instagram sluttery.
2020-10-12T23:46:36 < aandrew> Cracki> sit in air vents and peep on russian grrls browsing 4chan
2020-10-12T23:46:39 < aandrew> you mean writing 4chan posts
2020-10-12T23:46:51 < Cracki> remember when the insta sluts got visits from the tax man because they didn't pay taxes
2020-10-12T23:47:07 < Cracki> I guess laurence also writes some posts
2020-10-12T23:48:11 < aandrew> whoa. Laurenceb discovered to be russian grrl
2020-10-12T23:48:20 < aandrew> it all makes sense now
2020-10-12T23:56:40 < kakisback> :o
2020-10-12T23:59:19 < aandrew> netcraft confirms it
--- Day changed Tue Oct 13 2020
2020-10-13T00:01:48 < kakisback> it's not long until uncle kim sends email to lurencer
2020-10-13T00:05:52 < Laurenceb> missile to destroy america forever, pay is hourly
2020-10-13T00:05:57 < Laurenceb> I can see it now
2020-10-13T00:06:11 < kakisback> I have joked about controversial regimes trying to get lurence to make their nukes fly
2020-10-13T00:07:05 < kakisback> it seems like your CV is getting spread to right desks now
2020-10-13T00:08:35 < PaulFertser> I knew a guy from Myanmar, he was studying in my uni. He later contacted me trying to discuss some military-related shit :)
2020-10-13T00:09:08 < kakisback> stuff was too hot?
2020-10-13T00:10:19 < kakisback> lurencer: email assad
2020-10-13T00:13:26 < Laurenceb> lol instant cia white jet
2020-10-13T00:13:32 < Steffanx> But how does mathlab hell with this all?
2020-10-13T00:13:52 < Steffanx> Help.
2020-10-13T00:14:13 < kakisback> freudian slip
2020-10-13T00:23:49 < kakisback> I tried to find replacement for my subnotebook that I paid 700eur for in 2015 2016 or so
2020-10-13T00:26:12 < kakisback> 1.2-1.3kg ~14" metal chassis, good keyboard and especially decent size palmrest area, display over 300cd/m2, sRGB > 90%
2020-10-13T00:26:27 < kakisback> I find basically nothing
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2020-10-13T00:27:13 < karlp> isn't that like any 14" laptop then?
2020-10-13T00:27:24 < kakisback> under 1000eur
2020-10-13T00:27:39 < kakisback> 300cd/m2 and sRGB > 90%
2020-10-13T00:27:47 < kakisback> metal chassis
2020-10-13T00:28:15 < kakisback> sorry.. >300cd/m2
2020-10-13T00:29:02 < kakisback> I don't know if sRGB is good metric for display colors but I know if it's like 40 it's like looking grayscale
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2020-10-13T00:30:40 < karlp> where do you even find a vendor describing this "srgb > 90%" tthat you want?
2020-10-13T00:30:53 < karlp> are you asking them to claim that they can actually display more than 90% of the space?
2020-10-13T00:30:54 < specing> kakisback: used x-series thinkpad with outdoor display
2020-10-13T00:31:00 < karlp> or all the space with 90% accuracy? or what
2020-10-13T00:31:13 < kakisback> it's just the gamut range
2020-10-13T00:31:14 < karlp> I'd iamging viewing angle to be way more relevant than some ideal number on direct viewing
2020-10-13T00:31:33 < kakisback> well that too
2020-10-13T00:31:57 < Laurenceb> I used a thinkpad on babbyshake
2020-10-13T00:32:04 < Laurenceb> but it was very expensive
2020-10-13T00:34:37 < PaulFertser> kakisback: wouldn't any IPS panel be capable of that?
2020-10-13T00:34:48 < kakisback> you would think
2020-10-13T00:38:05 < PaulFertser> Please elaborate
2020-10-13T00:38:22 < kakisback> it's how the panel is driven too
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2020-10-13T00:40:53 < kakisback> there is greatly varying results in output of exact same panel between laptop models
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2020-10-13T00:43:56 < PaulFertser> How come? Different backlight? But isn't it integrated into the panel?
2020-10-13T00:44:41 < kakisback> I think there might be different backlight too
2020-10-13T00:45:02 < PaulFertser> Then it can't be the exact same panel.
2020-10-13T00:46:21 < kakisback> different panel driver?
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2020-10-13T00:48:00 < kakisback> I don't know if they would call it a different panel model if they roll one panel with one type of leds and another panel with another type of leds
2020-10-13T00:49:05 < PaulFertser> I'd expect the panel product number to be different in that case.
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2020-10-13T01:29:40 < PaulFertser> WTF https://www.bfmtv.com/economie/des-patrons-de-bars-en-garde-a-vue-a-cause-du-wi-fi-offert-a-leurs-clients_AN-202009290142.html !!
2020-10-13T01:31:35 < Steffanx> Je ne parle pas français 
2020-10-13T01:32:25 < Steffanx> Oh the stories about the arrested restaurant owners for not having wifi accesspoint logs?
2020-10-13T01:33:26 < karlp> I mean, I hate it, but I'd suspect they had other motives to target those bars, and these were easy for them?
2020-10-13T01:33:30 < Steffanx> Can tu translate pour moi, mawk?
2020-10-13T01:33:40 < mawk> yes?
2020-10-13T01:33:49 < karlp> https://translate.google.com/translate?hl=en&sl=auto&tl=en&u=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.bfmtv.com%2Feconomie%2Fdes-patrons-de-bars-en-garde-a-vue-a-cause-du-wi-fi-offert-a-leurs-clients_AN-202009290142.html
2020-10-13T01:33:55 < mawk> "bar owners in custody because free wifi they offered to customers"
2020-10-13T01:34:01 < Steffanx> Mawk is a better translateur
2020-10-13T01:34:04 < mawk> they used regular access point with no logging
2020-10-13T01:34:15 < mawk> and by law they're considered ISPs
2020-10-13T01:34:23 < mawk> so they need to log connections and stuff to satifsfy judiciary requests
2020-10-13T01:34:27 < mawk> it's normal
2020-10-13T01:35:06 < Steffanx> TERRORISM \o/
2020-10-13T01:46:54 < karlp> aight, fixed missing shit in the usbdfu demo to properly restartt without needing special dfuse magic
2020-10-13T01:47:00 < Cracki> there was a town that had open wifi (near bus and train stations?), and guess what happened, the free wifi attracted a certain crowd, and that people were harassed, so now the free wifi is gone again
2020-10-13T01:47:31 < Cracki> the free wifi around here is only ever used to grab university credentials from dumb students
2020-10-13T01:47:47 < karlp> fuck doing DFU alt mode in main app though, 
2020-10-13T01:48:25 < zyp> karlp, why?
2020-10-13T01:48:43 < zyp> it's only a descriptor and control handler
2020-10-13T01:48:46 < karlp> well, jsut seems like more work than just adding a ttiny ctrl req to my own code that reboots into the dfu mode.
2020-10-13T01:48:54 < karlp> yeah, I mean, maybe one day.
2020-10-13T01:49:05 < zyp> depends how hard it is to add the control handler :)
2020-10-13T01:49:15 < karlp> it shouldn't be a problem at tall really,
2020-10-13T01:49:23 < karlp> just not really giving much gain right now
2020-10-13T01:49:52 < karlp> dfu-util -D file.bin -s 0x8002000 worked just fine, but would never start the user app.
2020-10-13T01:50:03 < karlp> and "-s 0x8002000:leave" justt stank of special workarounds
2020-10-13T01:50:30 < karlp> I've added handing for DFU_DETACH so now "dfu-util -D file.bin -s 0x8002000 -R" works properly.
2020-10-13T01:51:27 < karlp> dfu-tool throws fun gobject assertions on write though, fuck knows what it's doing.  
2020-10-13T01:51:32 < zyp> the whole -s thing is ST bullshit
2020-10-13T01:51:58 < karlp> yeah, trying to get rid of that now and see if I can kill it.
2020-10-13T01:52:11 < karlp> it should just always take block numbers relative to the firmware spare
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2020-10-13T01:52:37 < karlp> ah, then I need a .dfu wrapping...
2020-10-13T01:52:41 < karlp> tedioussss
2020-10-13T01:53:46 < zyp> https://cgit.jvnv.net/arcin/tree/dfugen.py?id=9a09653 <- here you go
2020-10-13T01:53:52 < zyp> converts .elf to .dfu directly
2020-10-13T01:54:49 < zyp> probably needs to be updated to python3, haven't used that since I switched to HID transport
2020-10-13T01:56:45 < karlp> fuckign dfu-suffix is meant to do this too,
2020-10-13T01:56:50 < karlp> comes from same people as dfu-uil
2020-10-13T01:56:52 < karlp> do that,
2020-10-13T01:56:57 < karlp> dfu-util: No valid DfuSe signature
2020-10-13T01:57:19 < zyp> you don't want a DfuSe signature, fuck DfuSe
2020-10-13T01:57:56 < karlp> yeah, I know,
2020-10-13T01:58:51 < karlp> hrm, I think my device is set to dfu11a, which is dfuse now.
2020-10-13T01:59:21 < zyp> standard DFU is a transport for an opaque image, it doesn't care what's inside the image, it justs streams it through, so you can structure it however or encrypt or sign and so on
2020-10-13T01:59:44 < zyp> DfuSe is like «hey, you're welcome to shit arbitrary data all over memory as you like»
2020-10-13T02:00:22 < zyp> which is useful for a do-anything-rom-bootloader, but not really what a customer facing bootloader should be
2020-10-13T02:00:45 < karlp> fuck it
2020-10-13T02:01:19 < karlp> yeah, changed my own bootloader descriptor from 11a to 100, dfu-util now recognises it with a plain dfu suffix.
2020-10-13T02:01:21 < karlp> excepppppt 
2020-10-13T02:01:29 < karlp> the statemachine in this example code is busted for "normal" dfu :)
2020-10-13T02:01:40 < zyp> I bet
2020-10-13T02:02:06 < zyp> normal dfu is overkill too, in practice you only need two states :)
2020-10-13T02:02:08 < karlp> this is getting out of hand.
2020-10-13T02:02:21 < karlp> so much for "just use one of tthese dfu bootloader projects"
2020-10-13T02:02:26 < zyp> haha
2020-10-13T02:03:03 < zyp> you should have just grabbed mine, you could have added that enum for 2 and 5 in less time than what you've spent so far :p
2020-10-13T02:03:43 < karlp> yeah, but then it would haven't done anything for testing locm3 prs on adding usb features, 
2020-10-13T02:03:49 < karlp> and I'd need more libs to pull in for building
2020-10-13T02:04:11 < karlp> and i'd need to port my l1 memory shit to laks as well.
2020-10-13T02:04:38 < zyp> what memory shit? .noinit?
2020-10-13T02:05:00 < zyp> laks already got it, except I call it .bootinfo
2020-10-13T02:05:14 < karlp> no, the half page writing for flash, which must be a ram function.
2020-10-13T02:05:22 < karlp> it would all be totally manageable sure
2020-10-13T02:05:27 < zyp> wait, what?
2020-10-13T02:05:30 < karlp> just, this wasn't meant to be a problem either.
2020-10-13T02:05:32 < zyp> ah, yes, for speed?
2020-10-13T02:05:41 < karlp> well, unless you want to do 3ms per _word_ on L1, yes...
2020-10-13T02:05:50 < zyp> yeah, I didn't bother
2020-10-13T02:06:30 < zyp> https://cgit.jvnv.net/cardio/tree/bootloader.cpp#n66 <- I'm doing it the slow way on L0
2020-10-13T02:06:38 < zyp> IIRC they they have the same flash controller
2020-10-13T02:06:43 < zyp> or almost same at least
2020-10-13T02:07:13 < karlp> yeah, ~very close
2020-10-13T02:07:19 < karlp> half page is 16 vs 32 words,
2020-10-13T02:07:36 < karlp> and erase works on any address in the page for l0, and allegedly onlyu for first word of the page on l1, 
2020-10-13T02:07:51  * karlp sighs
2020-10-13T02:08:05 < zyp> eventually I should put a set of reusable flashloaders in laks
2020-10-13T02:08:59 < zyp> I like that prepare/write/finish API, it's nice and simple and can be mapped to whatever transport you've got
2020-10-13T02:09:35 < zyp> works with DFU, works with my HID transport, works with both the raw ethernet transport and the UDP transport I wrote for workstuff
2020-10-13T02:10:58 < karlp> fuck this. committed with notes for now. what a depressing way to wrap up.
2020-10-13T02:11:02 < karlp> thought this was "finished"
2020-10-13T02:11:08 < zyp> aww
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2020-10-13T04:22:56 < Cracki> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B5zs9IGb8AQ
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2020-10-13T10:50:56 < chipant> Hey - what size the pre-processor #define (const_value) takes by default in gcc ARM ? Can anybody point the documentation regarding it. I could not understand it properly.
2020-10-13T10:53:05 < PaulFertser> chipant: the answer is 0. Pre-processor is run before compiler, it just program text preprocessing, so it can't be taking any specific size in the target binary.
2020-10-13T10:53:24 < qyx> ie. it is a string replacement only
2020-10-13T10:54:06 < qyx> oh you said the same :P
2020-10-13T10:54:26 < qyx> I skipped the middle
2020-10-13T10:54:38 < chipant> PaulFertser, Got it. If I define a value like #define val 30. So the value 30 will be treated as uint_8 or 16 or any other type ?
2020-10-13T10:55:24 < PaulFertser> chipant: it'll be treated like integer literal
2020-10-13T10:56:03 < PaulFertser> chipant: and in C by default all operations have an implicit cast to "int" (or larger).
2020-10-13T10:57:02 < chipant> PaulFertser, Yes. I got that. Trying to explore the exact casting of the #define values as in the case I mentioned.
2020-10-13T10:57:10 < PaulFertser> chipant: https://en.cppreference.com/w/cpp/language/integer_literal
2020-10-13T10:57:20 < PaulFertser> chipant: nothing is "#define" specific
2020-10-13T10:58:46 < chipant> PaulFertser, got it.
2020-10-13T11:02:58 < PaulFertser> chipant: also, in real life you have optimising compilers and so if you always use sensible types (and not mixing signed/unsigned unnecessarily) the generated binary code will use the best storage type possible.
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2020-10-13T11:45:14 < jadew> which is int128_t
2020-10-13T11:45:27 < jadew>  /troll
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2020-10-13T13:07:41 < karlp> people who write makefiles with SRCS = $(wildcard *.c) should be fucking shot
2020-10-13T13:11:36 < zyp> s/with.*\) // FTFY
2020-10-13T13:11:52 < jpa-> i've used   $(shell git ls-files *.c)   sometimes
2020-10-13T13:11:55 < tcth_> people writing makefiles should be shot in general. Just use cmake.
2020-10-13T13:11:58 < karlp> for the fucking Y?
2020-10-13T13:12:04 < karlp> tcth_: fuk you even h arder.
2020-10-13T13:12:11 < zyp> haha
2020-10-13T13:12:11 < tcth_> karlp, :D
2020-10-13T13:12:22 < karlp> so sick of "cmake will make your teeth whiter"
2020-10-13T13:12:28 < tcth_> it won´t
2020-10-13T13:12:39 < karlp> is it better than autotools? sure, but that's a fucking low bar.
2020-10-13T13:13:04 < karlp> jpa-: that's more sensible, but quite a lot of invocations for something.
2020-10-13T13:13:17 < tcth_> once you get used to the fuckly syntax and the fact that the documentation is really just a very extensive reference manual you´re in for much fun. With modern cmake that is at least.
2020-10-13T13:13:24 < tcth_> never used autotools.
2020-10-13T13:13:33 < karlp> no, even modern cmake is stupid as hell
2020-10-13T13:13:43 < tcth_> what makes you think so?
2020-10-13T13:13:43 < karlp> I've _tried_ _realllly hard_ to do things "just the way you should"
2020-10-13T13:13:49 < jpa-> karlp: yeah, it's a lazy way; but putting it in := or whatever it was should only invoke it once
2020-10-13T13:14:30 < jpa-> people keep submitting build rules using all kinds of crazy build systems to nanopb; i merge them, but i never understand them
2020-10-13T13:14:39 < jpa-> cmake is one of the craziest looking mess
2020-10-13T13:15:08 < karlp> do you just say in a readme, "this one is supportted all teh rest are user contributed"?
2020-10-13T13:15:29 < jpa-> nope, i have nothing supported ;)
2020-10-13T13:16:06 < jpa-> though for commercial support if someone was actually paying, i'd learn it then while being paid to learn it
2020-10-13T13:16:25 < jpa-> but that's all hypothetical because what kind of a person would pay for support on an open source project
2020-10-13T13:16:51 < zyp> I'd probably rather use meson than cmake if I had to pick
2020-10-13T13:18:04 < karlp> of the two? or over scons even? ;)
2020-10-13T13:18:04 < tcth_> how come?
2020-10-13T13:18:20 < karlp> meson at least is modern from the scratch, not 50 years of tcl underpinnings,
2020-10-13T13:19:02 < jpa-> i've never quite understood these "build script generator" tools; what does ninja lack if you need meson to generate scripts for it?
2020-10-13T13:19:37 < karlp> they're both meson still just generates something else like cmake
2020-10-13T13:19:44 < karlp> one of my biggest complains with them both
2020-10-13T13:19:47 < tcth_> the one thing I do not want to do when compiling C++ code is installing a python interpreter :p
2020-10-13T13:20:04 < karlp> ah, you're going to install "somethign that's not python, but somethign else instead"
2020-10-13T13:20:10 < karlp> good argument nutjob
2020-10-13T13:20:29 < jpa-> what kind of a system doesn't already have 15 incompatible versions of python?
2020-10-13T13:20:37  * karlp giggles
2020-10-13T13:20:41 < tcth_> heh
2020-10-13T13:20:59 < tcth_> karlp, I hope you noticed the sarcasm in my statement.
2020-10-13T13:21:10 < jpa-> fortunately almost all of my projects have been simple enough for makefiles, and even simple enough to make the makefiles windows-portable
2020-10-13T13:21:42 < zyp> karlp, of the two
2020-10-13T13:23:11 < zyp> jpa-, from my perspective, ninja is just a simpler make-alternative for the tools that generate makefiles, i.e. autotools/cmake/meson
2020-10-13T13:23:39 < jpa-> zyp: yes, but i've never understood the point of makefile generator tools either
2020-10-13T13:24:12 < zyp> I assume the point is that they don't want to reimplement the dependency engine
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2020-10-13T14:26:21 < karlp> well, dapboot project actuall behaves properly dfu.
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2020-10-13T15:25:12 < qyx> 23700 cycles of a stress test and it is starting to be boring
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2020-10-13T15:42:16 < mawk> so the average probability of failure is 0.0127% per utilization
2020-10-13T15:42:21 < mawk> with 23700 cycles
2020-10-13T15:42:28 < mawk> still too high
2020-10-13T15:43:08 < aandrew> mawk: might have missed the context, what are you testing?
2020-10-13T15:43:17 < mawk> qyx is testing
2020-10-13T15:43:21 < mawk> I don't know what
2020-10-13T15:46:11 < qyx> I am trying to find a race when the modem stops responding
2020-10-13T15:46:22 < qyx> apparently it cannot be triggered over serial
2020-10-13T15:47:32 < mawk> if you have N positive results then the probability of negative result is 3/N
2020-10-13T16:06:10 < BrainDamage>  mawk: https://i.redd.it/feic8es0cns51.jpg
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2020-10-13T16:11:06 < mawk> lol
2020-10-13T16:11:24 < mawk> why does jesus hold a baby even
2020-10-13T16:15:35 < BrainDamage> it was the woman's, to spare the kid the same desity
2020-10-13T16:15:39 < BrainDamage> destiny*
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2020-10-13T16:37:19 < karlp> man, lto makes debugging shit all wonky at least in this project
2020-10-13T16:39:42 < Mangy_Dog> Can some one explain to me wtf is going wrong with my boards... Started to do some testing with the program ive been writing this past 3 weeks... Doesnt work..... Multiple issues but one issue that makes no sense whatsoever...
2020-10-13T16:39:53 < Mangy_Dog> Im having 5 leds driven directly from the mcu... as sinks
2020-10-13T16:40:07 < Mangy_Dog> theyre not working at all
2020-10-13T16:40:20 < Mangy_Dog> even in a simpel slink sketch
2020-10-13T16:40:57 < Mangy_Dog> PB1 blinks as normal so its not a program hang, but im testing on PA11 PA12 PA15 as well
2020-10-13T16:41:26 < Mangy_Dog> PA15 is just staying high
2020-10-13T16:41:31 < Mangy_Dog> 12 and 11 stays low
2020-10-13T16:41:56 < Mangy_Dog> like i say PB1 is blinking, so program didnt hang
2020-10-13T16:42:10 < Mangy_Dog> i just have these pins triggering at the same time
2020-10-13T16:42:16 < Mangy_Dog> all set to output
2020-10-13T16:43:51 < Mangy_Dog> is there just some strange pin conflict going on that i wouldnt have known about unless i knew the datasheet on the f103 back to back?
2020-10-13T16:51:13 < karlp> heh, turned off lto to debug, works.
2020-10-13T16:51:18 < karlp> turn lto back on, busted..
2020-10-13T16:51:39 < karlp> it seems to ignore the ram function attributes...
2020-10-13T16:51:41 < karlp> awesome
2020-10-13T16:51:52 < Mangy_Dog> lto always breaks code for me
2020-10-13T16:53:02 < karlp> https://bugs.launchpad.net/gcc-arm-embedded/+bug/1418073
2020-10-13T16:54:37 < qyx> Mangy_Dog: which mcu
2020-10-13T16:54:45 < Mangy_Dog> 103c8t6
2020-10-13T16:56:11 < Mangy_Dog> allegidly
2020-10-13T16:56:20 < Mangy_Dog> who knows might be a c6
2020-10-13T16:56:25 < Mangy_Dog> rebadged
2020-10-13T16:56:56 < qyx> don't you have usb or can enabled?
2020-10-13T16:57:18 < karlp> fucking hoorray
2020-10-13T16:57:26 < Mangy_Dog> not using usb, and disabled usb serial
2020-10-13T16:58:24 < qyx> you know PA11 and PA12 are USB/CAN pins
2020-10-13T16:58:42 < qyx> maybe you didn't disable it enough
2020-10-13T16:58:50 < Mangy_Dog> maybe
2020-10-13T17:14:45 < Steffanx> Maybe not
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2020-10-13T17:31:10 < Mangy_Dog> oh ffs
2020-10-13T17:31:11 < Mangy_Dog> ok
2020-10-13T17:31:14 < Mangy_Dog> half fixed
2020-10-13T17:31:20 < Mangy_Dog> 11 and 12
2020-10-13T17:31:22 < Mangy_Dog> working
2020-10-13T17:31:27 < qyx> what was the robem
2020-10-13T17:31:28 < qyx> problem
2020-10-13T17:31:31 < Mangy_Dog> usb serial was still enabled
2020-10-13T17:31:46 < Mangy_Dog> the platform txt file was replaced with a default one
2020-10-13T17:31:48 < Mangy_Dog> at some point
2020-10-13T17:31:53 < Mangy_Dog> thought i had already removed the option
2020-10-13T17:31:55 < qyx> platform txt file?
2020-10-13T17:31:58 < qyx> uh oh?
2020-10-13T17:32:15 < Mangy_Dog> sorry took longer than it needed to to check as i was on the phone
2020-10-13T17:32:24 < Mangy_Dog> 15 still stuck high
2020-10-13T17:32:48 < qyx> you are programming stm32 on a phone using some platform txt?
2020-10-13T17:32:57 < Mangy_Dog> no
2020-10-13T17:33:05  * qyx curious
2020-10-13T17:33:19 < Mangy_Dog> i was stuck waiting on the phoen trying to find out if my dentist appointment was canceled or not
2020-10-13T17:33:49 < Mangy_Dog> anyway
2020-10-13T17:33:56 < Mangy_Dog> PA15 why stuck high D:
2020-10-13T17:34:02 < Mangy_Dog> is it another special pin?
2020-10-13T17:34:31 < qyx> yes, jtag
2020-10-13T17:35:19 < Mangy_Dog> im using swd
2020-10-13T17:35:53 < PaulFertser> You need to disable JTAG pins not used for SWD by your init code.
2020-10-13T17:37:17 < Mangy_Dog> how do i do that?
2020-10-13T17:37:41 < qyx> set them as outputs
2020-10-13T17:37:49 < PaulFertser> No
2020-10-13T17:37:53 < Mangy_Dog> already set
2020-10-13T17:37:53 < qyx> or no?
2020-10-13T17:38:14 < qyx> PaulFertser will be robably righter
2020-10-13T17:39:06 < PaulFertser> AFIO_MAPR_SWJ_CFG_JTAG_OFF_SW_ON
2020-10-13T17:39:07 < Mangy_Dog> google finds this 
2020-10-13T17:39:08 < Mangy_Dog> RCC->APB2ENR |= RCC_APB2ENR_AFIOEN; // Enable A.F. clock
2020-10-13T17:39:08 < Mangy_Dog> AFIO->MAPR |= AFIO_MAPR_SWJ_CFG_JTAGDISABLE; // JTAG is disabled, SWD is enabled
2020-10-13T17:39:45 < Mangy_Dog> sooo just to confirm paul  AFIO_MAPR_SWJ_CFG_JTAG_OFF_SW_ON keeps swd on so i can continue using the stlink to program?
2020-10-13T17:39:51 < Mangy_Dog> and not hard brick this chip
2020-10-13T17:39:55 < PaulFertser> Well, if you're using a library that doesn't have a function for that, you can assign MAPR directly.
2020-10-13T17:40:18 < PaulFertser> Mangy_Dog: stm32f103 is not hard brickable ever. You can always talk to it with reset pulled low or with UART bootloader pin strapped.
2020-10-13T17:40:44 < Mangy_Dog> assuming my pins are connected to a button >.> sure
2020-10-13T17:40:59 < Mangy_Dog> reset pin that is
2020-10-13T17:41:22 < PaulFertser> Your reset pin should be available to stlink
2020-10-13T17:41:30 < PaulFertser> Or you can use tweezers on it
2020-10-13T17:41:31 < Mangy_Dog> nope
2020-10-13T17:41:43 < Mangy_Dog> im software resetting
2020-10-13T17:41:51 < Mangy_Dog> .... a slight oversight 
2020-10-13T17:41:53 < PaulFertser> Where's your reset pin connected to?
2020-10-13T17:41:59 < PaulFertser> And the BOOT0 pin?
2020-10-13T17:41:59 < Mangy_Dog> its not
2020-10-13T17:42:04 < PaulFertser> Just not routed at all?
2020-10-13T17:42:14 < Mangy_Dog> oh wait sorry
2020-10-13T17:42:24 < Mangy_Dog> boot pulled low to ground perminently
2020-10-13T17:42:27 < Mangy_Dog> reset pulled high
2020-10-13T17:42:54 < PaulFertser> Reset pulled high how?
2020-10-13T17:43:01 < Mangy_Dog> high
2020-10-13T17:43:04 < PaulFertser> Shorted to Vcc?
2020-10-13T17:43:05 < Mangy_Dog> via 10k
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2020-10-13T17:43:20 < PaulFertser> Then you can always pull it down with tweezers
2020-10-13T17:43:35 < Mangy_Dog> thats true
2020-10-13T17:44:05 < PaulFertser> I can't tell about your library but with libopencm3 I'd use AFIO_MAPR |= AFIO_MAPR_SWJ_CFG_JTAG_OFF_SW_ON;
2020-10-13T17:45:23 < Mangy_Dog> afio_,apr not declared in this scope
2020-10-13T17:45:36 < Mangy_Dog> using rogerclarks core
2020-10-13T17:46:13 < PaulFertser> (0x2 << 24) bit in AFIO MAPR register.
2020-10-13T17:46:48 < PaulFertser> After enabling AFIO clock
2020-10-13T17:47:09 < Mangy_Dog>   RCC->APB2ENR |= RCC_APB2ENR_AFIOEN; // Enable A.F. clock
2020-10-13T17:47:09 < Mangy_Dog>   AFIO->MAPR |= AFIO_MAPR_SWJ_CFG_JTAGDISABLE;  
2020-10-13T17:47:12 < Mangy_Dog> trying that
2020-10-13T17:47:20 < Mangy_Dog> rcc was not declared in this scope
2020-10-13T17:55:30 < Mangy_Dog> im gonna go get some late lunch
2020-10-13T17:55:35 < Mangy_Dog> figure this out when i get back
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2020-10-13T18:18:24 < karlp> ahh, I love finding notes in another project that just magically fix bugs.
2020-10-13T18:18:36 < karlp> "turn off (apparently?) busted asserts in freemodbus"
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2020-10-13T18:43:17 < karlp> hrm, doesn't seem to be a way to exit dfu mode without reflashing with this thing :)
2020-10-13T18:50:03 < karlp> fixed :)
2020-10-13T19:01:55 < Steffanx> Thanks
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2020-10-13T19:18:29 < mawk> PaulFertser 1×2 + 2×3 + 3×4 = 4×5
2020-10-13T19:18:41 < Steffanx> Thanks mawk
2020-10-13T19:19:00 < mawk> 1×2×3 + 2×3×4 + 3×4×5 + 4×5×6 = 5×6×7
2020-10-13T19:19:14 < mawk> does this sequence holds forever? can you prove it?
2020-10-13T19:19:24 < mawk> I'm trying recreational mathematics now Steffanx 
2020-10-13T19:19:26 < Steffanx> Ill get started
2020-10-13T19:19:42 < mawk> so I thought of a fun problem
2020-10-13T19:20:16 < mawk> it's just numbers Steffanx you can do it
2020-10-13T19:20:43 < Steffanx> Not interested today
2020-10-13T19:20:48 < mawk> :(
2020-10-13T19:20:52 < mawk> why not
2020-10-13T19:20:55 < mawk> it's the weather?
2020-10-13T19:22:24 -!- hornang [~quassel@185.56.185.179] has quit [Quit: No Ping reply in 180 seconds.]
2020-10-13T19:22:57 < Steffanx> Just home from work 
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2020-10-13T19:26:51 < mawk> so what
2020-10-13T19:26:54 < mawk> this isn't work
2020-10-13T19:26:57 < mawk> this is fun
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2020-10-13T19:35:51 < Steffanx> Ok
2020-10-13T19:38:02 < englishman> how much wood could a woodchuck chuck if a woodchuck could chuck wood?
2020-10-13T19:43:22 < mawk> that depends on your woodchucking model
2020-10-13T19:45:29 < karlp> a woodchuck would chuck as muhc would as a woodchuck could chuck if a woodchuck could chuck wood
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2020-10-13T20:10:53 < Mangy_Dog> joy
2020-10-13T20:11:16 < Mangy_Dog> got some adivce, that said it doesnt disable swd..... but it did and no i cant reupload
2020-10-13T20:11:33 < Mangy_Dog> boot0 pulled high to put into dfu mode?
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2020-10-13T20:24:31 < BrainDamage> karlp: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QkiCYT6tGH4
2020-10-13T20:25:18 < englishman> swd is always available under reset, so just connect under reset
2020-10-13T20:27:18 < Mangy_Dog> ive hotwired the reset pin to the stlink :/
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2020-10-13T20:28:27 < PaulFertser> Mangy_Dog: what advice did you get?
2020-10-13T20:28:37 < Mangy_Dog> disableDebugPorts(); 
2020-10-13T20:28:37 < Mangy_Dog> delay(100);
2020-10-13T20:28:37 < Mangy_Dog> enableDebugPorts();  
2020-10-13T20:28:43 < Mangy_Dog> with rogers core
2020-10-13T20:29:01 < Mangy_Dog>     afio_cfg_debug_ports(AFIO_DEBUG_NONE);
2020-10-13T20:29:14 < Mangy_Dog>     afio_cfg_debug_ports(AFIO_DEBUG_SW_ONLY);
2020-10-13T20:29:20 < Mangy_Dog> is whats inside that
2020-10-13T20:29:27 < PaulFertser> The blind leading the blind, sigh.
2020-10-13T20:29:48 < PaulFertser> Is delay in seconds?
2020-10-13T20:30:44 < Mangy_Dog> ms
2020-10-13T20:30:56 < PaulFertser> that naming wow
2020-10-13T20:31:57 < zyp> Mangy_Dog, advice for what?
2020-10-13T20:32:11 < Mangy_Dog> stm32duino forums mr burrnett
2020-10-13T20:32:15 < PaulFertser> zyp: disabling JTAG keeping SWD for F1 using some arduino framework.
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2020-10-13T20:32:52 < zyp> what's the point supposed to be?
2020-10-13T20:33:04 < Mangy_Dog> so i can use PA15
2020-10-13T20:33:42 < Mangy_Dog> i think ob4 too
2020-10-13T20:33:44 < Mangy_Dog> pb4
2020-10-13T20:34:07 -!- Maya-sama is now known as Miyu
2020-10-13T20:34:11 < zyp> why do you need to set NONE first and then SW_ONLY?
2020-10-13T20:34:35 < Mangy_Dog> its automatically on with this core
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2020-10-13T21:07:39 < kakinite> hello dear
2020-10-13T21:08:54 < Steffanx> Hi sexy
2020-10-13T21:09:27 < kakinite> *blushes*
2020-10-13T21:09:48 < kakinite> not really.. nice to see you steff
2020-10-13T21:10:11 < kakinite> how is life?
2020-10-13T21:11:14 < specing> welcome to ##sexytalkmisses32
2020-10-13T21:14:19 -!- Streaker [~Streaker@unaffiliated/streaker] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer]
2020-10-13T21:14:33 < Steffanx> Relaxed atm mr kakinite .
2020-10-13T21:14:37 < Steffanx> Doing not so much
2020-10-13T21:14:41 < kakinite> good
2020-10-13T21:15:11 < kakinite> has your life been changed by all the mess?
2020-10-13T21:15:23 < Steffanx> Whats up in kakiland?
2020-10-13T21:15:42 -!- machinehum [~machinehu@S01061cabc0ab4603.vc.shawcable.net] has joined ##stm32
2020-10-13T21:15:42 < Steffanx> Yes. It has, but mainly due my own state of mind i think
2020-10-13T21:17:08 < kakinite> well people start loosing jobs
2020-10-13T21:17:24 < kakinite> restaurants are allowed to be open until midnight
2020-10-13T21:17:30 < kakinite> nothing else much
2020-10-13T21:18:31 < Steffanx> Here things are getting more strict. Most shit has to close around 22.00
2020-10-13T21:18:42 < karlp> we're down to 9pm nmow :|
2020-10-13T21:21:13 < Steffanx> Hm
2020-10-13T21:22:29 < kakinite> Faeroe Islands have non of this bs.. they have tested 288% of the population
2020-10-13T21:23:36 < karlp> doesn't much to get out in small place
2020-10-13T21:25:13 < kakinite> it's annoying when I tried to go to eat in restaurant in 1AM
2020-10-13T21:25:15 < kakinite> once
2020-10-13T21:26:05 < kakinite> and they were not allowed to serve my junk there and I had to eat in my car
2020-10-13T21:26:18 < kakinite> not that I wouldn't have done that anyway
2020-10-13T21:28:31 < Steffanx> Pooooor kakinite 
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2020-10-13T21:34:50 < kakinite> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6GQiMThft7I finnish jesus
2020-10-13T21:37:06 < Mangy_Dog> and even though theyre pwm compatable pins i cant pwmWrite or analogWrite PB5 PA1 PA11.... PB4 and PA15 are still stuck HIGH while i cant figure out how to turn off jtag without turning off swd programming
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2020-10-13T21:58:22 < Steffanx> lol kakinite. :)
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2020-10-13T22:26:31 < Laurenceb> mandem roadman peng fam badman wasteman ting bludfam  pengaleng dizzy senpai 
2020-10-13T22:27:11 < antto> is that a new rihanna song?
2020-10-13T22:28:19 < Laurenceb> lmao
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2020-10-13T23:06:45 < Steffanx> need a doctor Laurenceb?
2020-10-13T23:07:55 < kakinite> which drug lurencer?
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2020-10-13T23:38:26 < bitmask> hmm $50 for a new macbook pro battery, oh well
2020-10-13T23:42:33 < kakinite> only 50?
2020-10-13T23:43:00 < bitmask> oem "genuine" (ebay)
2020-10-13T23:43:48 < bitmask> hmm, and $80 for a new power adapter (from apple) mine still works but the wire coating is shredded
2020-10-13T23:45:00 < kakinite> why not repair that?
2020-10-13T23:45:44 < kakinite> of course it's shredded.. it's the telltale sign of genuine apple cable
2020-10-13T23:46:02 < Steffanx> I bought a new wire once. Was a complete disaster 
2020-10-13T23:46:28 < bitmask> repair how?
2020-10-13T23:46:35 < bitmask> cover in electrical tape?
2020-10-13T23:46:40 < Steffanx> Yeah.
2020-10-13T23:46:41 < Steffanx> Lol
2020-10-13T23:46:42 < bitmask> hah
2020-10-13T23:46:54 < Laurenceb> bigots dont know about my degrees in disability and fat studies, critical race theory, and intersectionality
2020-10-13T23:46:58 < Steffanx> Mine turned bad and was actually a fire hazard
2020-10-13T23:47:03 < bitmask> $80 every few years aint too bad
2020-10-13T23:47:31 < kakinite> I used 2component polyurethane and heatshrink
2020-10-13T23:47:41 < bitmask> I found a nice spring in my collection that works as strain relief so it should help keep the new one in better shape longer
2020-10-13T23:47:46 < Steffanx> I smelled burnt plastic/rubber looked around in my room and noticed it was the cable of my macbook charger -_-
2020-10-13T23:48:15 < BrainDamage> if only strain relief was invented for cables ... ohwait, apple doesn't do because it's antiaesthetic
2020-10-13T23:48:19 < bitmask> the problem is i sit on the right side of the bed and the power port is on the left, so the cable was most likely to just fold right at the worst spot
2020-10-13T23:48:23 < BrainDamage> as if a frayed cable is goo looking
2020-10-13T23:48:47 < Steffanx> Probably because the "shielding" got too thin and turned into a nice hot wire.
2020-10-13T23:48:49 < Laurenceb> the cable is epistemic violence against metallic conductors
2020-10-13T23:49:19 < bitmask> fuck it, ordering it...
2020-10-13T23:49:21 < BrainDamage> I can imagine disability studies being a legit thing if you approach it from a medical POV
2020-10-13T23:49:33 < Steffanx> For me it was somewhere in the middle of the cable. 
2020-10-13T23:49:33 < BrainDamage> bitmask: is it just a usbc cable at the end?
2020-10-13T23:49:39 < bitmask> no
2020-10-13T23:49:43 < bitmask> mine is pre usb c
2020-10-13T23:49:44 < Cracki> I can't remember when I last saw effective strain relief. the damage isn't from strain, but from bending. and strain relief just shifts that to the end of the strain relief.
2020-10-13T23:49:52 < bitmask> its a magsafe 2 or wahtever
2020-10-13T23:50:30 < Cracki> (bad strain relief. there's good, but that's never in consumer "two wires and a box" power supplies)
2020-10-13T23:50:32 < BrainDamage> that's strain, the bending gives both compressive and extensive strain
2020-10-13T23:50:45 < Laurenceb> Cracki: yeah, I have a 80s hairdrier with an inverted conical  indent where the cable enters
2020-10-13T23:50:56 < Steffanx> The magsafe cablr i got from ebay was the disaster cable. It was a bad clone
2020-10-13T23:50:59 < Laurenceb> no actual strain relief, but that casing seems to work very well
2020-10-13T23:51:17 < BrainDamage> and I've learned on my wallet too to avoid psus with cable soldered in
2020-10-13T23:51:24 < Steffanx> 80s hairdryer. Why am i not surprised Laurenceb 
2020-10-13T23:51:28 < Cracki> strain relief would be the cable clamped inside the case, but the cone does good bend relief, which everyone usually dgaf about
2020-10-13T23:51:28 < BrainDamage> are there magsafe extensions?
2020-10-13T23:51:38 < Laurenceb> Steffanx: made in West Germany
2020-10-13T23:51:52 < Laurenceb> best Germany
2020-10-13T23:51:56 < BrainDamage> you could add an extension cable and use that end as disposable
2020-10-13T23:51:56 < Steffanx> Should drop it in the bath tub while youre in it
2020-10-13T23:52:07 < BrainDamage> then you just replace the extension cable as necessary
2020-10-13T23:52:12 < Cracki> west germany is full of cucks and commies, who never lived under communism
2020-10-13T23:52:16 < Laurenceb> lmao
2020-10-13T23:54:41 < Laurenceb> those who refuse to engage might mistakenly perceive this as a declaration that they will not be allowed to express their disagreement but that is only true because they are resisting engagement
2020-10-13T23:55:10 < Cracki> disagreement has consequences, chud! in the gulag you go!
2020-10-13T23:55:17 < Laurenceb> lol
2020-10-13T23:55:44 < Laurenceb> tfw cant evn post of chapotraphouse ironically now
2020-10-13T23:55:50 < Laurenceb> reddit is dead
2020-10-13T23:56:12 < Laurenceb> *on
2020-10-13T23:56:23 < Cracki> CIA is gonna replace the mods
2020-10-13T23:56:35 < bitmask> order placed, i spent too much monies today
2020-10-13T23:56:48 < Cracki> moneyed westerner
2020-10-13T23:57:15 < bitmask> what else can i buy
2020-10-13T23:57:21 < Cracki> in soviet germoney we had to print our own many
--- Day changed Wed Oct 14 2020
2020-10-14T00:00:13 < Steffanx> Got new monies from Trump?
2020-10-14T00:00:37 < Laurenceb> apparently he is building a wall
2020-10-14T00:00:43 < bitmask> the shitty thing is you can swap out the wall plug end to use different countries plugs, but you cant do that with the end they know you are gonna fuck up
2020-10-14T00:00:45 < Laurenceb> ... around the gaza strip
2020-10-14T00:00:48 < Steffanx> Trump was so happy to be corona-free. I bet he celebrated with free monies give away
2020-10-14T00:00:57 < Cracki> if he gibs another 1200 before he's elected, that's a weak move
2020-10-14T00:01:25 < Cracki> one of his indian worshippers had a heart attack and died when he heard that trump got the rona
2020-10-14T00:01:50 < Laurenceb> lmao
2020-10-14T00:01:56 < Cracki> trump building walls over there, and they just run sky wires over here
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2020-10-14T00:11:11 < BrainDamage> bitmask: use an extension cable for thhat end, then the extension cable becomes the disposable part
2020-10-14T00:12:01 < bitmask> do they have extension cables?
2020-10-14T00:12:19 < bitmask> im not gonna bother either way but curious if they even sell em
2020-10-14T00:12:46 < BrainDamage> that's for you to search :p
2020-10-14T00:13:15 < bitmask> heh no thanks
2020-10-14T00:19:59 < BrainDamage> bitmask: or some shit like this https://www.amazon.com/Power-Adapter-Charge-Before-Magsafe/dp/B083YQNK7M/ref=sr_1_65?crid=2MCOFU8KC4EPM&dchild=1&keywords=magsafe+extension+cord&qid=1602623496&sprefix=magsafe+exxtension%2Caps%2C290&sr=8-65
2020-10-14T00:20:09 < BrainDamage> usbc pd to magsafe adapter
2020-10-14T00:20:53 < bitmask> im ok just buying a new adapter every few years
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2020-10-14T00:28:35 < Steffanx> Whoa ohsix is alive!!
2020-10-14T00:28:47 < Steffanx> Whos next? ReadError_ ?
2020-10-14T00:31:28 < englishman> readerror is alive he just doesnt chat
2020-10-14T00:32:29 < qyx> how can you live without chatting?
2020-10-14T00:32:54 < qyx> englishman: do you have a greenhouse?
2020-10-14T00:32:58 < qyx> a big one?
2020-10-14T00:33:10 < englishman> we made a temporary one this spring, it's already down
2020-10-14T00:33:12 < qyx> or kakifarmer
2020-10-14T00:33:29 < qyx> with a foil?
2020-10-14T00:33:37 < englishman> no just construction plastic
2020-10-14T00:34:07 < qyx> oh yeah I remember Laurenceb did some calculations
2020-10-14T00:34:08 < englishman> the "basement greenhouse" is still there but only gets used jan-april or so
2020-10-14T00:34:28 < englishman> yes we were thinking about constructing a real one this year but i guess it'll be next year
2020-10-14T00:34:34 < BrainDamage> basement greenhouse? are you cultivating drugs?
2020-10-14T00:34:39 < englishman> no
2020-10-14T00:35:50 -!- Streaker [~Streaker@unaffiliated/streaker] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds]
2020-10-14T00:36:20 < englishman> https://i.imgur.com/D1N2Ar5.jpg
2020-10-14T00:36:25 < englishman> it's just to start plants
2020-10-14T00:36:42 < bitmask> wheres da chronic
2020-10-14T00:45:39 < karlp> BrainDamage: thanks for the monkey island clip :)
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2020-10-14T01:05:33 < qyx> QFP or QFN in a vibrating environment?
2020-10-14T01:08:40 -!- Laurenceb [2ed0c827@39.200.208.46.dyn.plus.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
2020-10-14T01:13:33 < zyp> qyx, difference is probably insignificant
2020-10-14T01:13:47 -!- hornang [~quassel@185.56.185.179] has quit [Quit: No Ping reply in 180 seconds.]
2020-10-14T01:14:57 < karlp> solder alloy probably more significant
2020-10-14T01:15:17  * karlp is pulling things out of his arse though, no actual idea.
2020-10-14T01:15:44 < karlp> zyp, want to look at a fun compiler warning? :)
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2020-10-14T01:16:00 < karlp> Warning: setting incorrect section attributes for .data.ramfunctions
2020-10-14T01:16:31 < zyp> well, duh, it should be .text, not .data
2020-10-14T01:16:42 < karlp> caused by: https://github.com/devanlai/dapboot/blob/master/src/stm32l1/target_stm32l1.c#L151
2020-10-14T01:17:06 < karlp> is this a "if you want executable data you need to declare a new section, not just put it in .data" ?
2020-10-14T01:17:14 < karlp> it only happens with lto btw.
2020-10-14T01:17:25 < karlp> no lto, just happily links and puts things in the right sections.
2020-10-14T01:17:40 < karlp> but lto seems to involve applying attributes as well, 
2020-10-14T01:17:51 < qyx> zyp: I havbe found some papers saying there is an order of magnitude difference between BGA and QFP
2020-10-14T01:18:00 < zyp> karlp, yes, beause .data is expected to be rw only while .text is rx
2020-10-14T01:18:13 < qyx> the worst is thermally cycled QFN with conformal coating
2020-10-14T01:18:18 < karlp> this was a workaround, allegedly, but it's no good anymore on recent gcc: https://stackoverflow.com/a/3454066
2020-10-14T01:18:24 < qyx> failing after ~300 cycles
2020-10-14T01:18:33 < karlp> zyp: so why doesn't it get upset abotu that in non-lto builds?
2020-10-14T01:19:12 < karlp> and ram is labelled as rwx, so... what's wrong with it?
2020-10-14T01:19:22 < zyp> is it?
2020-10-14T01:19:43 < karlp> https://github.com/devanlai/dapboot/blob/master/src/stm32l1/stm32l1-standard.ld#L18
2020-10-14T01:19:58 < karlp> the asm dump intermediary file seems to say "        .section        .data.ramfunctions,"ax",%progbits
2020-10-14T01:20:00 < zyp> ah, the region, sure
2020-10-14T01:20:00 < karlp> "
2020-10-14T01:21:30 < karlp> just want the warning to go away.
2020-10-14T01:21:54 < zyp> give it a different name? :p
2020-10-14T01:22:02 < karlp> where do you reference that .data is treated specially other than the linker script?
2020-10-14T01:23:03 < zyp> I'm not sure exactly how everything fits together, but I have this impression that something somewhere assumes attributes depending on section names
2020-10-14T01:23:29 < karlp> if I could find a source, that woudl be awesome, because it seems like most of this shit is "just a default name"
2020-10-14T01:23:34 < karlp> and the linker scripts have final control
2020-10-14T01:23:40 < karlp> but... no source, no progress
2020-10-14T01:24:06 < karlp> and having to add a whoel new section to be able to place functions in ram, permanently just seems poitnless
2020-10-14T01:24:10 < karlp> it's only a warning in lto,
2020-10-14T01:24:15 < zyp> or maybe it's just grumpy because you're mixing different types of input sections in the same output section
2020-10-14T01:24:35 < zyp> although that doesn't explain why it doesn't complain about sticking .rodata in .text
2020-10-14T01:25:00 < karlp> it really feels mor elike an lto  "we refuse to call bugs bugs" bug than anything else.
2020-10-14T01:25:44 < zyp> but you say this happens with LTO only? from which step?
2020-10-14T01:25:45 < karlp> I mean, gcc doesn't even admit that, "oh, you explicitly requested a section? fuck you, we decided to inline it, so we through away that section you asked for" is a bug, they treat that as "operator error, inlining is preferential"
2020-10-14T01:25:53 -!- tcth_ [~tcth@77.109.191.152] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds]
2020-10-14T01:26:21 < karlp> just turn off lto for the build, no other code changes, (so dropping -flto from CFLAGS and LDFLAGS) it builds the same (slightly bigger) binary, with no warnings
2020-10-14T01:26:35 < karlp> it's only related to this lto .s intermediary file that generates a warning
2020-10-14T01:27:02 < zyp> I'm pretty sure I've seen a similar error before, and I haven't bothered with LTO yet
2020-10-14T01:27:48 < karlp> yeah, this is just making me want to continue to avoid lto.
2020-10-14T01:27:55 < karlp> it also made debugging fucking horrible
2020-10-14T01:28:08 < karlp> but, hey, it did make a 7k bootloader a 6k bootlaoder so... ok?
2020-10-14T01:29:48 < zyp> it's not lto related, I'm getting the same error without LTO
2020-10-14T01:30:01 < zyp> zyp@rin ~ $ arm-none-eabi-gcc -c foo.c -mcpu=cortex-m3
2020-10-14T01:30:01 < zyp> /var/folders/zf/y4pvt7_91q711b7ds77ysnt00000gn/T//ccV8AjTD.s: Assembler messages:
2020-10-14T01:30:04 < zyp> /var/folders/zf/y4pvt7_91q711b7ds77ysnt00000gn/T//ccV8AjTD.s:12: Warning: setting incorrect section attributes for .data.ramfunctions
2020-10-14T01:31:10 < zyp> renaming the section simply .ramfunctions instead fixes the problem, so it's absolutely the compiler treating the .data prefix as no-execute
2020-10-14T01:31:55 < zyp> I'd just do that and then add a line for it in the .data output section
2020-10-14T01:32:27 < zyp> I'd probably call it .ramtext or something
2020-10-14T01:32:38 < karlp> ok, I wasn't getting that without lto.
2020-10-14T01:32:41 < karlp> let me try again.
2020-10-14T01:34:42 < karlp> ah no, ok, I'm seeing it now. bah
2020-10-14T01:36:06 < zyp> IMO the terms .text, .data and .bss have well understood meanings of code, initialized data and zero-initialized data, respectively, and you're trying to shoehorn code where it's not supposed to go because you don't want to add one extra line to the linker script :p
2020-10-14T01:36:33 < karlp> well, it's not oneline, and yes. what's the point in the region attributes if this shit is going to complain abotu them
2020-10-14T01:36:42 < karlp> I don't really understand yet what it's really upset about.
2020-10-14T01:37:10 < zyp> it's absolutely one line, just add a .ramtext input into the .data output section, just like how .rodata goes into .text
2020-10-14T01:37:42 < karlp> it's absolutely not one line: https://paste.centos.org/view/81f4bc88
2020-10-14T01:37:52 < karlp> (it's still small, and easy, I just don't see yet why I _should_)
2020-10-14T01:38:02 < zyp> you're not reading what I'm saying
2020-10-14T01:38:10 < karlp> obviously not.
2020-10-14T01:38:21 < karlp> oh ...
2020-10-14T01:38:23 < karlp> hrm, 
2020-10-14T01:38:26 < karlp> really
2020-10-14T01:38:27 < zyp> you're making a new .ramtext output section, as opposed to putting the .ramtext in the .data output section
2020-10-14T01:38:51 < zyp> if you do that, you'll also have to get the startup code to copy .ramtext
2020-10-14T01:39:09 < karlp> I would fucking _love_ to see something in the gcc manual that could tell me, "yeah, but the way, section names _are_magical, linker scripts arne't all of the story"
2020-10-14T01:40:00 < Mangy_Dog> so anyone had any more thoughts on how to help with my freeing up the jtag pins problem?
2020-10-14T01:40:05 < Mangy_Dog> without breaking swd
2020-10-14T01:40:09 < karlp> stop using arduino?
2020-10-14T01:40:22 < Mangy_Dog> not really an option :/
2020-10-14T01:40:31 < karlp> the refernece manual clearly says what bits need to be set in what register to free the (only) jtag pin that is not part of swd.
2020-10-14T01:40:58 < zyp> you can free JTDO as well IIRC
2020-10-14T01:41:03 < zyp> if you don't need SWO
2020-10-14T01:41:26 < Mangy_Dog> i only need what i need for stlink programming
2020-10-14T01:41:38 < zyp> also, this is gpiov1 bullshit, you wouldn't have this problem if you used any other stm32 family than f1 :p
2020-10-14T01:41:54 < Mangy_Dog> :/
2020-10-14T01:42:00 < zyp> this is what you get for picking outdated shit
2020-10-14T01:42:08 < karlp> yeah, but then he'd have to pay 20c more and have functional shit, instead of ranting about his clones and spending years of everyone's fucking lives
2020-10-14T01:42:22 < Mangy_Dog> actually no
2020-10-14T01:42:41 < karlp> oh, is it 2GPB now, because of brezxit?
2020-10-14T01:42:43 < Mangy_Dog> the only reason im stuck in f103 in this current case is the graphics chip library im using is built for arduino and f103
2020-10-14T01:42:48 < qyx> be nice karlp, hows snow in karlpland?
2020-10-14T01:42:53 < karlp> no snow yet.
2020-10-14T01:43:07 < Mangy_Dog> The library is a bit.... complicated....
2020-10-14T01:43:10 < karlp> wel, some on the mountain on the bay a few weeks ago, but just a first dusting.
2020-10-14T01:43:10 < Mangy_Dog> to port
2020-10-14T01:43:17 < qyx> interesting, we have some in the north
2020-10-14T01:43:27 < karlp> we don't really get much snow anyway,
2020-10-14T01:43:37 < karlp> and globably warming just makes iceland cosy...
2020-10-14T01:43:42 < Mangy_Dog> i rather like the cudeide way of doing things with the cubemx chip config tool setting the pins
2020-10-14T01:44:03 < Mangy_Dog> it would also free up tons of other chips i could use
2020-10-14T01:44:12 < qyx> i[cr]eland
2020-10-14T01:44:35 < qyx> 4 seasons of rain
2020-10-14T01:44:43 < karlp> no. we're way better than that :)
2020-10-14T01:44:59 < karlp> I've lived in that other one, fuck that.:)
2020-10-14T01:45:14 < Mangy_Dog> ireland has mountains?
2020-10-14T01:45:38 < karlp> about as much as the UK does... who are you to talk? :)
2020-10-14T01:45:50 < karlp> we were talking about snow and rain anyway,
2020-10-14T01:45:53 < Mangy_Dog> well in fairness the uk does have mountains :D
2020-10-14T01:46:02 < karlp> riiiight.... :)
2020-10-14T01:46:09 < Mangy_Dog> but i didnt know there was that much geological stuff over there
2020-10-14T01:46:32 < Mangy_Dog> peakdistrict snowdonia cumbria lots of bits of scotland
2020-10-14T01:46:43 < karlp> ben nevis is 1300m
2020-10-14T01:46:55 < karlp> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Carrauntoohil is 1037 or something
2020-10-14T01:46:58 < karlp> so... 
2020-10-14T01:47:01 < qyx> time to invoke some G4 fdcan ghosts
2020-10-14T01:47:08 < karlp> yeah.. gooooo UK superiority boyo
2020-10-14T01:47:17 < qyx> :D
2020-10-14T01:47:33 < Mangy_Dog> :p
2020-10-14T01:47:40 < Mangy_Dog> and i wasnt nocking it
2020-10-14T01:47:45 < zyp> Mangy_Dog, you could try this: *(volatile uint32_t)0x40010004 = 2 << 24;
2020-10-14T01:47:45 < Mangy_Dog> i just didnt know
2020-10-14T01:48:02 < zyp> sorry, typo
2020-10-14T01:48:10 < zyp> *(volatile uint32_t*)0x40010004 = 2 << 24;
2020-10-14T01:48:12 < zyp> there you go
2020-10-14T01:48:33 < karlp> (scafell pike is _shorter_ than ireland's highest, for the real true english pride.... )
2020-10-14T01:48:52 < Mangy_Dog> pft i have no english pride
2020-10-14T01:49:29 < Mangy_Dog> theres not a lot to be proud of these days
2020-10-14T01:49:33 < Cracki> conquering the world in search for spices
2020-10-14T01:49:41 < Cracki> *of
2020-10-14T01:49:44 < Mangy_Dog> and the country being run by a fucking bunch of cunts too
2020-10-14T01:50:03 < Mangy_Dog> Spice opens the mind, spice allows us to map out the stars!
2020-10-14T01:50:17 < zyp> the spice must flow
2020-10-14T01:50:22 < Mangy_Dog> indeed
2020-10-14T01:50:45 < Mangy_Dog> Im actually rather hyped about the new movie tbh
2020-10-14T01:50:54 < Cracki> never be ashamed of conquering
2020-10-14T01:50:57 < Mangy_Dog> im prolly going to end up horribly disapointed
2020-10-14T01:51:07 < Cracki> afraid it's gonna be too woke?
2020-10-14T01:51:14 < Mangy_Dog> na just shit
2020-10-14T01:51:22 < Cracki> but but all the CGI!
2020-10-14T01:51:29 < Mangy_Dog> actually
2020-10-14T01:51:34 < Mangy_Dog> i felt the effects were fine
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2020-10-14T01:51:45 < zyp> Mangy_Dog, are you trying the code I gave you?
2020-10-14T01:51:47 < Mangy_Dog> i just want the whole thing to have the right level of realism
2020-10-14T01:51:55 < Mangy_Dog> im scared to but ill try it zyp
2020-10-14T01:52:10 < zyp> afraid it'll work?
2020-10-14T01:52:25 < Mangy_Dog> afraid it might break things more :p
2020-10-14T01:52:35 < karlp> so... shpping, f401 or f411 dev board or both? what's the best option of extra breakable shit vs a f4 disco.
2020-10-14T01:52:42  * karlp digs in the dev board box...
2020-10-14T01:53:48 < Mangy_Dog> soo the f401 your go to then karlp?
2020-10-14T01:54:48 < karlp> no, I'd have to say L1 is my go to,
2020-10-14T01:55:05 < karlp> but I'm filling carts, and picking up common testing shit to add to the regression testing pile.
2020-10-14T01:55:37 < zyp> I guess f407 would be my go to if I had one
2020-10-14T01:55:39 < Mangy_Dog> zyp didnt work
2020-10-14T01:55:48 < zyp> Mangy_Dog, ok, hang on
2020-10-14T01:56:05 < zyp> didn't work how? made no difference?
2020-10-14T01:56:19 < Mangy_Dog> PA15 holding HIGH
2020-10-14T01:56:28 < karlp> zyp: is there any magic for replacing https://github.com/devanlai/dapboot/blob/master/src/stm32l1/target_stm32l1.c#L201 for m0 targets?
2020-10-14T01:56:30 < Mangy_Dog> i have a PWM on there to test
2020-10-14T01:56:37 < Mangy_Dog> let me try one more thing
2020-10-14T01:56:40 < Mangy_Dog> try it in the blink test
2020-10-14T01:56:51 < Mangy_Dog> see if its pwm fucking things up
2020-10-14T01:57:44 < zyp> karlp, yeah, use m0+ :p
2020-10-14T01:57:47 < qyx> karlp: g4 g4... plz
2020-10-14T01:58:45 < karlp> was just (stupidly) thinking I could use all this l1 work to make an l0 port work super easily.
2020-10-14T01:58:56 < karlp> and actgually.
2020-10-14T01:58:56 < zyp> karlp, m0 doesn't have SCB_VTOR, so the vector table will always be read from address 0, so the magic would be what the chip can map to address 0
2020-10-14T01:58:58 < karlp> l0 is an m0+
2020-10-14T01:59:00 < zyp> yes
2020-10-14T01:59:04 < karlp> so... problem solved :)
2020-10-14T01:59:10 < Mangy_Dog> fek
2020-10-14T01:59:11 < Mangy_Dog> ok 
2020-10-14T01:59:14 < Mangy_Dog> it did work
2020-10-14T01:59:16 < Mangy_Dog> in blink
2020-10-14T01:59:19 < Mangy_Dog> but not with pwm
2020-10-14T01:59:24 < karlp> qyx: you waitingon a bunch of g4 locm3 shits?
2020-10-14T01:59:38 < karlp> I'm hoping to pile in a mountain of shit "soon"
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2020-10-14T01:59:50 < zyp> Mangy_Dog, maybe you need more remap settings
2020-10-14T01:59:58 < qyx> I'll be testing locm3 on g4 soon
2020-10-14T02:00:02 < karlp> tagged a "pre" 0.8, so now i can go and merge everythign and break everything and get more forwards.
2020-10-14T02:00:04 < qyx> board is here
2020-10-14T02:00:11 < Mangy_Dog> maybe
2020-10-14T02:00:26 < qyx> also.. fdcan
2020-10-14T02:00:26 < Mangy_Dog> zyp what page of what datasheet did you get the adress from?
2020-10-14T02:00:28 < Mangy_Dog> i want to read it
2020-10-14T02:00:30 < karlp> yeah, f7/pac55/g4/g0 are all "ready" shits that I had no realllll objection to.
2020-10-14T02:00:32 < Mangy_Dog> read up on it
2020-10-14T02:00:33 < qyx> no locm3 support yet
2020-10-14T02:00:39 < qyx> at  least I didn't see
2020-10-14T02:00:39 < karlp> fdcan is going to be completely on you I think :)
2020-10-14T02:00:46 < karlp> there's the old bxcan, but that' sit.
2020-10-14T02:00:49 < karlp> and I've got no can hardware
2020-10-14T02:01:17 < qyx> yeah thats the reason the board just sits on the table :P
2020-10-14T02:01:19 < zyp> Mangy_Dog, what timer channel and what pin is this?
2020-10-14T02:01:26 < qyx> I have mto look into fdcan
2020-10-14T02:01:35 < zyp> Mangy_Dog, are you trying to use TIM2_CH1 on PA15?
2020-10-14T02:02:14 < Mangy_Dog> no idea
2020-10-14T02:02:26 < Mangy_Dog> i just went by a diagram that said that PA15 has PWm control
2020-10-14T02:02:42 < Mangy_Dog> im guessing i need to first configure a timer to drive the pwm?
2020-10-14T02:02:45 < zyp> uh, let's just try that then
2020-10-14T02:02:46 < qyx> hm, dip switches on a vibrating object is probably not the best idea
2020-10-14T02:03:27 < zyp> Mangy_Dog, change the line to do = (2 << 24) | (1 << 8);
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2020-10-14T02:03:49 < zyp> all of this is from page 184 in https://www.st.com/resource/en/reference_manual/cd00171190-stm32f101xx-stm32f102xx-stm32f103xx-stm32f105xx-and-stm32f107xx-advanced-arm-based-32-bit-mcus-stmicroelectronics.pdf
2020-10-14T02:03:59 < Mangy_Dog> thanks
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2020-10-14T02:05:44 < karlp> heh, eink on my l053 disco is still the original display
2020-10-14T02:05:54 < karlp> hooray for eink longevity
2020-10-14T02:10:25 < karlp> qyx: g4/g0 is at least mostly "easy" shti.
2020-10-14T02:10:29 < karlp> l5 is the ... fun times :)
2020-10-14T02:11:06 < karlp> I sat down with it one night and was like.... um, how do we even start with these addressing modes for secure/non/kernel/thread shit
2020-10-14T02:11:26 < karlp> armv8m baby.  the future!
2020-10-14T02:19:44 < qyx> fuk v8m
2020-10-14T02:19:58 < qyx> nvidiav8m
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2020-10-14T02:23:44 < zyp> what's wrong with v8m?
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2020-10-14T02:24:25 < qyx> my feeling is like it was a totally different hw
2020-10-14T02:24:40 < zyp> I haven't looked into it yet, but I assume it just adds a couple of extra protection levels to the ones we already got in v7m but never use :p
2020-10-14T02:24:53 < qyx> heh
2020-10-14T02:25:33 < karlp> didn't seem quite that simple honestly
2020-10-14T02:25:39 < karlp> but I haven't looked since.
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2020-10-14T02:26:24 < karlp> and also, it didn't really right to just go "oh, armv8? banner feature is the secure memory access? yeah, we're goign to just pretend it doens't exist"
2020-10-14T02:28:21 < zyp> idk, I'm more interested in the stack guard
2020-10-14T02:28:47 < karlp> hadn't even noticed that bit :)
2020-10-14T02:28:53 < zyp> IIRC to me that's what sticks out as the most useful part
2020-10-14T02:29:00 < zyp> but then I've never tried v8m yet
2020-10-14T02:30:15 < zyp> I'm generally more interested in peripherals than whether it's this or that cpu
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2020-10-14T02:36:42 < karlp> hehe. "just do m0" he says... rtc.h:34:9: error: #error "stm32 family not defined."
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2020-10-14T03:15:03 < karlp> dongs: holy shit, how is an mdk "scatter file" any fucking better than an linker script?
2020-10-14T03:15:07 < karlp> that shit is gross as hell
2020-10-14T03:17:24 < karlp> man, AN4515 really makes "Batch Aquisition Mode" sound like marketting fluff
2020-10-14T03:17:31 < karlp> I thought it was some extra peripheral bits
2020-10-14T03:17:45 < karlp> no mention of bam or batch in the ref man for f411 or f401
2020-10-14T03:18:52 < karlp> it seems it's entirely software monkeying, and it works because you can turn off the flash interface.
2020-10-14T03:18:55 < karlp> what a crock
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2020-10-14T11:17:42 < tekniq> names
2020-10-14T11:18:24 < Steffanx> No names
2020-10-14T11:22:26 < mawk> tekniq the snitch
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2020-10-14T12:43:55 < catphish> morning
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2020-10-14T12:55:17 < Steffanx> Gooday sir, bye sir
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2020-10-14T14:01:50 < karlp> hrm, these T1 connectors are actualyl small. the pictures always looked so big, but I finally got the drawinngs down and compared it to an rj45 socket, and it is a lot smaller than I thought it was
2020-10-14T14:29:57 < BrainDamage> did you look up the connectors on tinder?
2020-10-14T14:32:24 < Steffanx> Lol 
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2020-10-14T14:43:51 < Cracki> thunderbolt over CEE
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2020-10-14T15:03:05 < jadew> man... java is such a stupid language
2020-10-14T15:03:28 < jadew> every time I use it, I realize a little more how fucking retarded it is
2020-10-14T15:04:35 < jadew> I know no other language that manages to be condescending
2020-10-14T15:05:05 < benishor> why would you call java condescending?
2020-10-14T15:05:13 < jadew> the stupidity of the people behind it oozes through its rules
2020-10-14T15:05:25 < jadew> benishor, in this case, because it forces exception handling
2020-10-14T15:05:33 < benishor> perhaps you don't know your java well enough
2020-10-14T15:06:11 < jadew> I know how to code tho, and I can tell from a mile away that that is the main reason java programs are shit
2020-10-14T15:06:17 < benishor> there are checked and unchecked exceptions
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2020-10-14T15:06:32 < benishor> those checked force you to handle them because they author intended so
2020-10-14T15:06:37 < benishor> their
2020-10-14T15:06:46 < jadew> right, which is like... everything
2020-10-14T15:07:00 < benishor> not really. you can either wrap or sink them or whatever if you don't want to handle them
2020-10-14T15:07:13 < benishor> unchecked exceptions won the fight anyways over the years
2020-10-14T15:07:52 < jadew> is there any way to tell the compiler to fuck off?
2020-10-14T15:07:55 < benishor> but if I, as an api author, want to force you to handle an exceptional situation, then I will specify a checked exception forcing you to take action should that happen
2020-10-14T15:08:03 < benishor> with checked exceptions? not
2020-10-14T15:08:22 < jadew> therefore stupid and condescending
2020-10-14T15:08:33 < benishor> depends on where you're looking from
2020-10-14T15:08:37 < benishor> what are you trying to code?
2020-10-14T15:09:02 < benishor> there's a reason why a lot of enterprise code is written in java
2020-10-14T15:09:15 < jadew> it doesn't matter, there are situations in which an exception shouldn't happen, in which case you shouldn't handle it, because if it does happen, the whole thing should crash and burn
2020-10-14T15:09:36 < jadew> yes, that reason is because they hired fresh college graduates who learned java in school
2020-10-14T15:09:36 < benishor> not necessarily, it would still be nice to report that
2020-10-14T15:10:08 < benishor> no, the reason is that the jvm is a beast and the language is clean
2020-10-14T15:10:11 < jadew> benishor, if I thought it's worth the time, I would wrap it in a try catch, but I don't, because I never expect it to happen
2020-10-14T15:10:13 < benishor> and there's quite an ecosystem 
2020-10-14T15:10:41 < benishor> not expecting it to happen does not mean it won't happen
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2020-10-14T15:10:43 < jadew> there's nothing clean about this, this right here, is why all java programs act stupid
2020-10-14T15:10:50 < jadew> they have bugs instead of crashing
2020-10-14T15:10:53 < Steffanx> Yes crashing software is the best solution 
2020-10-14T15:10:59 < jadew> if they crashed, people would fix the programs
2020-10-14T15:11:11 < benishor> that's called offensive programming. but should things crash there'd better be a meaningful report about it
2020-10-14T15:11:18 < benishor> just crashing with no details whatsoever is plain retarded
2020-10-14T15:11:23 < Steffanx> But you write perfect sw. You have no bugs jadew
2020-10-14T15:11:23 < jadew> instead, you have a bunch of stupid code that handles exceptions by ignoring them
2020-10-14T15:11:38 < jadew> Steffanx, that is true.
2020-10-14T15:11:49 < jadew> which is why I don't want to handle exceptions when I know they don't have to be handled
2020-10-14T15:12:07 < benishor> use a different language then
2020-10-14T15:12:19 < jadew> throwing an exception away, just because the compiler requires you to handle it when you shouldn't, it's an invitation for bugs down the line
2020-10-14T15:12:25 < jadew> I have to use java...
2020-10-14T15:12:41 < BrainDamage> https://github.com/EnterpriseQualityCoding/FizzBuzzEnterpriseEdition
2020-10-14T15:13:18 < tctw> came across that one a few weeks ago - was fun :D
2020-10-14T15:13:36 < benishor> jadew: perhaps try scala
2020-10-14T15:13:39 < benishor> if you need to use the jvm
2020-10-14T15:13:49 < jadew> isn't that functional?
2020-10-14T15:13:54 < benishor> yup
2020-10-14T15:13:59 < benishor> but it has java interoperation
2020-10-14T15:14:07 < benishor> actually it's not purely functional
2020-10-14T15:14:15 < benishor> or try kotlin for that matter. or groovy
2020-10-14T15:14:18 < benishor> whatever rocks your boat
2020-10-14T15:14:30 < tctw> c++
2020-10-14T15:14:37 < jadew> yeah, c++ rocks my boat
2020-10-14T15:14:43 < jadew> do they have that on the jvm?
2020-10-14T15:14:45 < Steffanx> NewLineStringReturnerFactory yeaah
2020-10-14T15:14:45 < benishor> I was refering to jvm languages which interoperate with java
2020-10-14T15:14:54 < tctw> why would I want to use JVM?
2020-10-14T15:14:54 < benishor> they don't have that on the jvm
2020-10-14T15:14:57 < tctw> aah, sry
2020-10-14T15:15:06 < tctw> didn't pay enough attention
2020-10-14T15:15:06 < benishor> the jvm is the best piece of software in the universe
2020-10-14T15:15:12 < jadew> haha
2020-10-14T15:15:17 < tctw> I'm sure ada can run on JVM
2020-10-14T15:15:20 < benishor> amazing piece of technology
2020-10-14T15:15:24 < tctw> how?
2020-10-14T15:16:42 < Cracki> it's dunking-on-java time? I hate their complicated build systems
2020-10-14T15:16:49 < Cracki> so enterprise
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2020-10-14T15:17:28 < jadew> I'm done with my rant, I'm getting back to catching stupid exceptions
2020-10-14T15:17:43 < benishor> their complicated build systems are awesome, at least maven and gradle
2020-10-14T15:17:55 < tctw> how?
2020-10-14T15:17:55 < benishor> proper way to get dependencies
2020-10-14T15:18:02 < benishor> c++ lacked in this for so so long
2020-10-14T15:18:12 < tctw> c++ is not a build system
2020-10-14T15:18:24 < tctw> c++ is a language standard.
2020-10-14T15:18:32 < benishor> c++ needs a package manager
2020-10-14T15:18:34 < tctw> and as such doesn't care about how you build it
2020-10-14T15:18:38 < tctw> no.
2020-10-14T15:18:41 < benishor> see, this problem right here
2020-10-14T15:18:43 < tctw> there are plenty of package managers and build systems
2020-10-14T15:18:50 < tctw> it's a language standard/spec.
2020-10-14T15:18:56 < benishor> c++ is supposed to be cross platform but that's laughable when it comes to libraries
2020-10-14T15:19:05 < Steffanx> Haha 
2020-10-14T15:19:06 < tctw> c++ is not supposed to be cross platform
2020-10-14T15:19:18 < tctw> there are libraries written in c++ that are cross platform
2020-10-14T15:19:20 < benishor> of course it is, since it's a spec
2020-10-14T15:19:47 < Cracki> I think this debate could be resolved honorably with a duel
2020-10-14T15:20:10 < tctw> saying that c++ is supposed to be cross platform is like saying that french is supposed to be cross platform - it  makes no sense. you can use it wherever you want - but in the end it's just a language
2020-10-14T15:20:31 < tctw> Cracki, nah I don't actually care. Just have to wait a few minutes for the CFO to arrive
2020-10-14T15:20:45 < Cracki> java is crossplatform because jvm abstracts a lot. c++ doesn't have that abstraction as part of the idea.
2020-10-14T15:20:47 < benishor> see, that's what makes the jvm such a wonderful tool
2020-10-14T15:21:13 < benishor> I've been coding 25+ years in most languages and writing cross-platform crap in c++ is still a pain in the ass
2020-10-14T15:21:21 < Cracki> java = buttsecks. you can stick it in anyone.
2020-10-14T15:21:51 < tctw> okay, gotta go
2020-10-14T15:21:53 < tctw> cu o/
2020-10-14T15:22:03 < Cracki> greetings to the CFO
2020-10-14T15:22:11 < tctw> lol no
2020-10-14T15:22:13 < tctw> better not
2020-10-14T15:22:20 < Cracki> maam i'm from the internet
2020-10-14T15:22:37 < Cracki> better call him ma'am, can't risk it
2020-10-14T15:22:39 < tctw> Steffanx, already fucked that one for me up when he visited
2020-10-14T15:23:29 < jadew> benishor, depends what you're writing with c++
2020-10-14T15:23:54 < Steffanx> What? You forgot to tell your friend about your secret Internet life
2020-10-14T15:23:55 < jadew> the code I write is usually cross platform
2020-10-14T15:24:12 < jadew> and when it isn't, it's because a particular platform has something others don't
2020-10-14T15:24:14 < benishor> clearly something more that hello words or file manipulation crap
2020-10-14T15:24:20 < Cracki> cross platform meaning it runs on some models of the same stm32 series :D
2020-10-14T15:24:31 < Cracki> arduino is cross platform
2020-10-14T15:24:32 < benishor> stuff outside what stdlib offers
2020-10-14T15:24:56 < benishor> like games and gui stuff
2020-10-14T15:25:06 < jadew> yes, you can do that too
2020-10-14T15:25:31 < jadew> there's Qt, wxWidgets, SDL
2020-10-14T15:25:33 < Cracki> if I had more experience with java i might use it more. as it is, I'll reach for python whenever possible
2020-10-14T15:25:34 < benishor> I did that 
2020-10-14T15:25:42 < Cracki> fucking hell qt
2020-10-14T15:25:43 < benishor> I'm just saying it's shitty
2020-10-14T15:25:50 < jadew> java is shitty too
2020-10-14T15:26:00 < benishor> to each his own
2020-10-14T15:26:00 < jadew> like... the echosystem
2020-10-14T15:26:01 < Cracki> i'd sooner take sdl and diy everything
2020-10-14T15:26:06 < jadew> ecosystem
2020-10-14T15:26:10 < benishor> I find the java ecosystem to be quite nice
2020-10-14T15:26:20 < Cracki> global warming destroys prog lang ecosystems
2020-10-14T15:26:38 < Cracki> java is concrete hell
2020-10-14T15:26:46 < Cracki> very sky scraper
2020-10-14T15:27:17 < jadew> benishor, so what do you have to say about this clearly bad programming practice that is enforced by the language?
2020-10-14T15:27:25 < jadew> the one that I brought up when I started the rant
2020-10-14T15:27:26 < Cracki> stuff written in java _is_ impressive quite often.
2020-10-14T15:27:42 < Cracki> not just architecturally but by features and functionality
2020-10-14T15:27:54 < Cracki> having to handle exceptions is _good_
2020-10-14T15:28:00 < Cracki> it prevents the thing from HCF
2020-10-14T15:28:01 < jadew> no, it is not
2020-10-14T15:28:17 < benishor> I'm just saying that checked exceptions have their place when you're an api author. the problem however is that older java apis went too strict and for the sake of compatibility they remain as they were
2020-10-14T15:28:21 < Cracki> the goal is that it keep running, and problems are handled
2020-10-14T15:28:26 < karlp> what benishor said
2020-10-14T15:28:35 < karlp> old java was a cunt and threw checked exceptions all over the place
2020-10-14T15:29:01 < benishor> and now I'm off to pick up my kid from the kindergarden, ttyl :)
2020-10-14T15:29:08 < Steffanx> Ohno
2020-10-14T15:29:36 < Cracki> python has the downside that you can't even have these guarantees (this thing can produce only these exceptions, these exceptions must be handled, ...) so it's impossible to check statically, so you _have to_ write tests to be sure it's all taken care of
2020-10-14T15:29:49 < Cracki> greetings to the kid and the kindergarten
2020-10-14T15:30:50 < Cracki> then again, python's fundamental ideas preclude simple static checking. you all but have to run it.
2020-10-14T15:31:57 < karlp> it's almost like there was a middle grtound between java 1.x shit checked everywhere and pythonesque "surprise, you got excpetions!"
2020-10-14T15:32:05 < Cracki> I wish they'd introduce checking of type annotations, even if it's just runtime assertions, with a simple switch to the python runtime. having to wrestle with a third party module (it's not even in the std lib) for that stuff is not convenient enough
2020-10-14T15:32:06 < karlp> which leads us to modern java, and also c#
2020-10-14T15:33:13 < jadew> the problem with forced exception checking is that some simply shouldn't be checked, because you know when they could happen and you can tell they never will
2020-10-14T15:33:23 < jadew> having to write extra code just because, is silly
2020-10-14T15:33:41 < jadew> and if you do the minimum, and just catch () {}, then you open yourself to bugs
2020-10-14T15:34:05 < Cracki> I see what you mean. they just decided that they wanted more thoroughness rather than convenience
2020-10-14T15:34:09 < jadew> because at some point, that exception might actually happen, because the situation has changed, or you were just stupid when you thought you know it can't happen
2020-10-14T15:34:14 < Cracki> it's made for people that are dumber than you
2020-10-14T15:34:19 < jadew> in that case, the bug will just confuse the user and damage the data
2020-10-14T15:34:26 < jadew> instead of crashing and forcing you to fix it
2020-10-14T15:34:43 < jadew> poorly handled errors are the reasons for the majority of the bugs, in my experience
2020-10-14T15:36:02 < jadew> and I'm willing to put money on this, the reason why java programs are and were so buggy
2020-10-14T15:36:15 < karlp> definitely, it's why modern java doesn't do that...
2020-10-14T15:36:19 < karlp> like benishor said.
2020-10-14T15:36:27 < karlp> everyonne hated everything being checked all the time.
2020-10-14T15:36:38 < karlp> but _nothing_ being checked is also bad,
2020-10-14T15:36:45 < karlp> excpetions?! what exceptions?
2020-10-14T15:36:50 < jadew> what's modern tho? how can I tell what I'm using?
2020-10-14T15:36:54 < jadew> I'm writing something for android
2020-10-14T15:37:16 < karlp> well, if you're handling mountains of checked exceptions, you're deling with legacy shit.
2020-10-14T15:37:37 < karlp> it's also perfetly suitable to just add throws.. to your decls, 
2020-10-14T15:37:56 < karlp> it forces you to admit that it isn't going to be handled by you, and needs to be handled higher up
2020-10-14T15:37:59 < jadew> but if you do that, you still have to catch it at some point, no?
2020-10-14T15:38:25 < karlp> sure, top level you have to decide wehther you want to abort or log and try and continue, but it should get done somewhere.
2020-10-14T15:39:04 < karlp> and better apis will declare throwing unchecked, so you know what might get thrown, but don't need to put them into your own decls.
2020-10-14T15:39:29 < karlp> exceptions were definitely pain in early java, and I totally agree, there were shit heaps of bugs because of it.
2020-10-14T15:39:52 < karlp> someone wrapped a try catch, dropped the exception on the floor and left a comment to "finish it later" and never did.
2020-10-14T15:40:23 < karlp> modern unchecked stuff can get caught more simply at a higher layer and at _least_ logged so someone has a chance of diagnosing later.
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2020-10-14T17:52:37 < tctw> I have some small microcontroller board here with an on-board h-bridge to drive small DC motors. I need to hook it up to a larger DC motor that would exceed the on-board's H-Bridge rating. It needs to be physically as small as possible and secondly as cheap as possible. Any good solutions?
2020-10-14T17:54:33 < tctw> if possible I'd prefer an add-on solution without modifying the existing controller board.
2020-10-14T17:56:07 < Cracki> quantities pls. also, what headers does your board have
2020-10-14T17:56:27 < tctw> < 20pcs
2020-10-14T17:56:35 < tctw> it's to retrofit model trains
2020-10-14T17:56:35 < Cracki> no, amps, volts,
2020-10-14T17:56:44 < tctw> 12V, 100mA
2020-10-14T17:57:05 < Cracki> is that for the board or the desired addon
2020-10-14T17:57:14 < tctw> the desired add-on
2020-10-14T17:57:30 < tctw> board is this: http://www.esu.eu/en/products/lokpilot/lokpilot-5-micro/
2020-10-14T17:58:04 < Cracki> smells like german english, calling a thing "he"
2020-10-14T17:58:13 < tctw> german company indeed ;-)
2020-10-14T17:59:07 < Cracki> anyway, just asking to extract the info for others. I have no extensive experience with dc motor driver circuits. boss used some TI chips with discrete fets for single digit ampere and ~24V or more
2020-10-14T17:59:28 < Cracki> so... TI chip is what I'd say. I'm sure make:r community knows some cheap boards too
2020-10-14T17:59:40 < Cracki> I think even a darlington array (plus diodes?) could do the job
2020-10-14T17:59:47 < tctw> I don't make making my own boards - actually preferred
2020-10-14T17:59:56 < tctw> what am I searching for term wise?
2020-10-14T18:00:11 < Cracki> "dc motor drive board" or sth
2020-10-14T18:00:37 < Cracki> "tutorials" talk of the good(lol) old L298N
2020-10-14T18:00:39 < tctw> well my main concern is figuring out how to properly connect a 2nd h-bridge to the first one
2020-10-14T18:01:06 < Cracki> replacing the onboard one, or for independent control?
2020-10-14T18:01:23 < Cracki> either way it's a handful of digital signals at most
2020-10-14T18:01:43 < tctw> just extending the power capabilities of the onboard one. not modifying the controller board with the existing h-bridge is what I'm after.
2020-10-14T18:02:01 < tctw> I want/need to make an "add-on" 
2020-10-14T18:02:08 < Cracki> ok so what headers does it have
2020-10-14T18:02:25 < Cracki> unless you're prepared to solder bodge wires onto vias/legs
2020-10-14T18:02:51 < tctw> physical stuff really doesn't matter. the board has two pads where the motor goes across. now I need to bodge another H-Bridge between that and the motor
2020-10-14T18:03:13 < tctw> it's all soldered wires anyway as very small room available in H0m/H0e locomotives
2020-10-14T18:05:14 < Cracki> uh
2020-10-14T18:05:25 < Cracki> so it's getting supply from the rails
2020-10-14T18:05:32 < Cracki> is that pwm or variable voltage
2020-10-14T18:06:09 < Cracki> and why do you need any electronics at all inside the locomotive? I'd think just wiring the motor to the rail pickups is enough
2020-10-14T18:06:24 < Cracki> is this some kind of smart thing
2020-10-14T18:13:20 < tctw> it's a digital system so you can have multiple locomotives on the same track and control each one individually
2020-10-14T18:13:36 < tctw> also setting realistic acceleration & braking curves. switchable lights etc.
2020-10-14T18:14:02 < Cracki> fancy
2020-10-14T18:14:16 < qyx> cc?
2020-10-14T18:14:18 < qyx> dcc?
2020-10-14T18:14:38 < qyx> or something more evolved
2020-10-14T18:14:54 < tctw> it does more evolved stuff but also dcc
2020-10-14T18:15:02 < tctw> see link from above: http://www.esu.eu/en/products/lokpilot/lokpilot-5-micro/
2020-10-14T18:15:15 < qyx> I clicked but didn't see anything specific
2020-10-14T18:15:30 < qyx> He masters the data format DCC as well as Motorola®, Selectrix® and M4
2020-10-14T18:15:31 < qyx> aha.
2020-10-14T18:15:37 < qyx> I stopped after the first paragrph
2020-10-14T18:15:41 < tctw> hah :p
2020-10-14T18:17:41 < BrainDamage> if you have a PN mos pair, you can put the gates together and wire them to the h bridge output
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2020-10-14T18:18:01 < BrainDamage> remember to swap them because it'll act as a not gate
2020-10-14T18:18:41 < tctw> yeah that's the kind of info I'm looking for :p
2020-10-14T18:19:01 < tctw> I was wondering whether single-chip "2nd H-bridge stage"-ICs exist but doesn't look like it
2020-10-14T18:19:14 < tctw> no problem to do it with discrete components tho.
2020-10-14T18:19:44 < qyx> there are such hbridges for DC motor control
2020-10-14T18:19:45 < BrainDamage> if the integrated H bridge is made by P and N mos, you can just use it
2020-10-14T18:20:06 < BrainDamage> if instead it's all N, you cannot, because the top mos would need a floating driver
2020-10-14T18:20:07 < qyx> or use a PN "half-bridge" (dual mosfet)
2020-10-14T18:20:10 < qyx> two of them
2020-10-14T18:20:38 < qyx> why
2020-10-14T18:20:41 < tctw> I was hoping that I can just use something like FDMQ86530L or similar and interface it to the existing h-bridge
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2020-10-14T18:21:10 < BrainDamage> because a N mosfet in order to be fully on it needs the gate to be a Vdd+Vgs
2020-10-14T18:21:12 < qyx> regardless the mosfet type, as long as the outputs are driven sufficiently to power rails, you can use PN
2020-10-14T18:21:24 < tctw> that they are.
2020-10-14T18:21:50 < BrainDamage> by integrated h bridge, I mean the one you wire yourself
2020-10-14T18:21:55 < qyx> so even if the internal drivers are NN with floating gate for the high side mosfet, you can add a PN pair
2020-10-14T18:21:57 < BrainDamage> not the one that's there
2020-10-14T18:22:01 < BrainDamage> yes
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2020-10-14T18:22:16 < BrainDamage> the integrated will swing from Vdd to GND
2020-10-14T18:22:32 < BrainDamage> which is perfect for PN, but not good enough for NN
2020-10-14T18:22:47 < qyx> oh integrated bridge as integrated in a single chip, not rhe one integrated in the device he has
2020-10-14T18:22:51 < BrainDamage> yup
2020-10-14T18:22:52 < tctw> BrainDamage, I'll need something other than the actual H-bridge to connect the gates up, right? Like just an inverter for two of the four FETs?
2020-10-14T18:23:09 < BrainDamage> no, you can wire the new h bridge directly
2020-10-14T18:23:17 < BrainDamage> just remember to swap left and right
2020-10-14T18:23:40 < qyx> or turn the locomotive
2020-10-14T18:23:47 < BrainDamage> the existing H bridge will act as an excellent gate driver
2020-10-14T18:24:34 < BrainDamage> adding an inveter yourself will make the thing perform worse
2020-10-14T18:24:44 < tctw> BrainDamage, looking at something like FDMQ86530L, I cannot simply connect G1 with G2 and G3 with G4 and then hook those two direclty up to the existing H-bridge, right?
2020-10-14T18:24:44 < BrainDamage> since it'llhave less current capability
2020-10-14T18:25:04 < Mangy_Dog> new problems.... So i got PA15 PWMing as i do PB4 and PB5, but doing this remap made me loose PWM on PA1 so going to have to hotwire that to PB1. And for somereason PA11 wont PWM even though mapping says it should
2020-10-14T18:26:24 < BrainDamage> tctw: no, that won't work, that's 4x N
2020-10-14T18:26:30 < BrainDamage> you need 2xP and 2xN
2020-10-14T18:26:35 < tctw> ah shit
2020-10-14T18:26:46 < tctw> you're right
2020-10-14T18:27:13 < BrainDamage> other than that, yes
2020-10-14T18:27:33 < tctw> okay. thank you for providing a good starting point. I'll look into this!
2020-10-14T18:28:57 < tctw> BrainDamage, this looks more like my thing: https://www.mouser.ch/datasheet/2/115/DMHC3025LSD-709448.pdf
2020-10-14T18:29:35 < tctw> BrainDamage, there I could in theory (ignoring electrical specs right now) just hook up P1D/N1D and P2D/N2D to my existing h-bridge - but swapping left & right?
2020-10-14T18:31:09 < tctw> bullshit on the pins I mentioned ofc. I need to connect gates.
2020-10-14T18:31:17 < tctw> too tired for this right now. will look into it tomorrow.
2020-10-14T18:33:11 < tctw> cu guys, take care o/
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2020-10-14T18:33:30 < BrainDamage> yes
2020-10-14T18:34:01 < mawk> https://youtu.be/PIeqcc9FSgE
2020-10-14T18:34:08 < mawk> listen to this BrainDamage 
2020-10-14T18:34:33 < mawk> it's better than ear candles to clean your ears
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2020-10-14T18:48:40 < BrainDamage> too much droning for my tastes
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2020-10-14T18:54:24 < Steffanx> Mawk you always strike me as a long haired heavy metal guy
2020-10-14T18:54:32 < Steffanx> No techno..
2020-10-14T18:56:34 < mawk> I'm a long haired heavy techno guy
2020-10-14T18:56:44 < Steffanx> Meh
2020-10-14T18:56:48 < mawk> and don't forget, under the hair I'm a skinhead
2020-10-14T18:56:59 < Steffanx> Big pupils?
2020-10-14T18:57:09 < mawk> opiates constrict the pupils
2020-10-14T18:57:13 < mawk> small pupils
2020-10-14T19:00:04 < Steffanx> Like a cat.
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2020-10-14T19:30:29 < GyrosGeier> hi
2020-10-14T19:30:48 < GyrosGeier> is there a way I can filter the output from a comparator?
2020-10-14T19:31:22 < GyrosGeier> I have a Hall sensor on + and DAC output on -
2020-10-14T19:31:42 < GyrosGeier> now I'd like to ignore short spikes, and latch long ones
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2020-10-14T19:54:36 < mawk> on software GyrosGeier ?
2020-10-14T19:54:39 < mawk> you need to integrate the output of the comparator
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2020-10-14T19:55:52 < mawk> you can do it in hardware as well GyrosGeier with rc circuit
2020-10-14T19:56:00 < mawk> but software works good enough
2020-10-14T19:56:40 < mawk> easy way is just each ms to add the gpio state, either -1 or +1, to an accumulation variable, clamping it to [0; 10] for instance
2020-10-14T19:56:56 < mawk> and you take hysteresis values like 3 and 6
2020-10-14T19:57:57 < mawk> so imagine you start at 0, then you have a spike [0, 1, 0, ...], after filtering it gives [0, 1, 0, ...], it never triggers
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2020-10-14T19:58:59 < mawk> then imagine you have a sustained plateau [0, 1, 1, 1, 1, 1, 1, 1, 1, 1, 1, 1, 1, 1, 0, 0, 0, ...], that gives [0, 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, 10, 10, 9, 8, 7, ...]
2020-10-14T19:59:18 < GyrosGeier> ideally in hardware
2020-10-14T19:59:19 < mawk> when the accumulator was <= 3 and is >= 6, you toggle the state to 1
2020-10-14T19:59:30 < mawk> why?
2020-10-14T19:59:35 < GyrosGeier> speed
2020-10-14T19:59:42 < GyrosGeier> this is safety critical
2020-10-14T19:59:43 < mawk> you will never have speed
2020-10-14T19:59:50 < mawk> you will always have a delay
2020-10-14T19:59:58 < GyrosGeier> of course
2020-10-14T20:00:21 < mawk> well doing it in software allows you to have strong guarantees on timing
2020-10-14T20:00:26 < GyrosGeier> the unfiltered approach is easy, I can just feed COMP2 out to the circuit that turns off the power
2020-10-14T20:00:35 < mawk> in hardware, it depends on your components, to have strong guarantees you need matches components and stuff
2020-10-14T20:00:49 < GyrosGeier> wat
2020-10-14T20:00:54 < englishman> nice, got my standing desks at work
2020-10-14T20:00:57 < mawk> matched components
2020-10-14T20:01:33 < GyrosGeier> the goal would be somewhere around 1 us
2020-10-14T20:01:49 < GyrosGeier> that will be difficult in software
2020-10-14T20:02:01 < mawk> which core?
2020-10-14T20:02:07 < mawk> but maybe yeah
2020-10-14T20:02:12 < englishman> sample the results and do a fft in numpy then a lowpass
2020-10-14T20:02:20 < GyrosGeier> STM32F301C8T
2020-10-14T20:02:22 < mawk> lol
2020-10-14T20:02:52 < mawk> excellent idea englishman 
2020-10-14T20:02:56 < mawk> over MQTT
2020-10-14T20:02:59 < GyrosGeier> I feed the current sensor output to OPAMP2 and COMP2
2020-10-14T20:03:08 < mawk> with a decentralized load-balanced computing node
2020-10-14T20:03:11 < GyrosGeier> OPAMP2 output goes to ADC1 and external pin
2020-10-14T20:03:16 < englishman> sounds like you want a lowpass tho
2020-10-14T20:03:20 < mawk> yeah
2020-10-14T20:03:24 < GyrosGeier> wait
2020-10-14T20:03:25 < mawk> put a RC filter somewhere
2020-10-14T20:03:27 < GyrosGeier> good point
2020-10-14T20:03:31 < GyrosGeier> I have a buffered output
2020-10-14T20:03:38 < mawk> after a buffer if you don't want to load the input
2020-10-14T20:03:48 < mawk> yeah you can filter the comparator output as well
2020-10-14T20:03:54 < GyrosGeier> I put peak detection on COMP4, and I still have COMP6 free
2020-10-14T20:04:03 < mawk> maybe you want hysteresis also
2020-10-14T20:04:05 < GyrosGeier> so I can put the RC there
2020-10-14T20:04:06 < englishman> time to open up pspice for TI and sim some lowpass opamps
2020-10-14T20:04:20 < mawk> but I think comparators do schmitt trigger stuff already 
2020-10-14T20:04:22 < mawk> look at datasheet
2020-10-14T20:04:35 < GyrosGeier> mh
2020-10-14T20:04:48 < mawk> so, buffer input, filter with RC, feed into comparator
2020-10-14T20:04:55 < GyrosGeier> my hope was that I can just feed COMP2 output to TIM1 input, and use the digital filter there
2020-10-14T20:05:03 < mawk> what what
2020-10-14T20:05:09 < mawk> you said digital filter is too slow
2020-10-14T20:05:20 < GyrosGeier> not if it's clocked with 16 MHz
2020-10-14T20:05:38 < GyrosGeier> I don't want to filter in software
2020-10-14T20:05:43 < englishman> how fast are your comparators
2020-10-14T20:05:51 < GyrosGeier> englishman, integrated
2020-10-14T20:06:09 < englishman> they are well specified in the datasheet
2020-10-14T20:06:31 < mawk> yes you can probably use the TIM filter
2020-10-14T20:06:43 < mawk> in the counting mode thing
2020-10-14T20:07:53 < GyrosGeier> yup, I just need to somehow bypass the rest of the timer :)
2020-10-14T20:08:36 < GyrosGeier> having it count down from 1 to 0 might work :P
2020-10-14T20:09:35 < GyrosGeier> hm
2020-10-14T20:10:18 < mawk> rc filter sounded cool though
2020-10-14T20:11:28 < GyrosGeier> indeed
2020-10-14T20:11:44 < GyrosGeier> I'll still implement that, since I have a free comparator anyway
2020-10-14T20:21:41 < mawk> so, you need to get the timer to count up when comparator is 1, and count down when comparator is 0
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2020-10-14T20:24:47 < mawk> I don't see exactly how you would do it though
2020-10-14T20:27:15 < GyrosGeier> one-shot, triggered by the filtered signal
2020-10-14T20:27:42 < mawk> but it needs to be bi-directionnal
2020-10-14T20:27:47 < mawk> count down when 0, count up when 1
2020-10-14T20:28:06 < GyrosGeier> no, it should latch
2020-10-14T20:28:27 < GyrosGeier> if it goes over-current once, I want the output signal to remain high until I get a reset command
2020-10-14T20:28:45 < GyrosGeier> because if I turn off the device, it's no longer over-current
2020-10-14T20:28:54 < GyrosGeier> (and if it is, it will burn)
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2020-10-14T21:44:16 < benishor> jadew: as you mentioned you were doing some android stuff, you can safely go for kotlin. exceptions in kotlin are unchecked
2020-10-14T21:47:34 < jadew> benishor, karlp, I thought about this thing a little more and I'm no longer sure if the checked/unchecked thing is horrible or not
2020-10-14T21:48:11 < jadew> it definitely sounds like a good idea, but I'm still not sure it actually is
2020-10-14T21:49:06 < benishor> this means you didn't run in the usecase that would justify its need
2020-10-14T21:49:06 < jadew> I have this feeling that it's the kind of thing that only work on paper, while in the real world it wrecks havoc
2020-10-14T21:49:11 < jadew> sort of like communism
2020-10-14T21:49:25 < benishor> what are you refering to? unchecked exceptions or checked ones?
2020-10-14T21:49:31 < jadew> checked ones
2020-10-14T21:49:35 < benishor> think of it this way:
2020-10-14T21:49:55 < apathy> real exceptions haven't been tried yet
2020-10-14T21:50:01 < jadew> haha apathy 
2020-10-14T21:50:17 < benishor> let's assume you're writing a framework which implements some business crap and you want to force the client to consider all outcomes  from your important business flow
2020-10-14T21:50:23 < benishor> think money or medical shit
2020-10-14T21:50:39 < jadew> benishor, I'm perfectly aware of where and how it could be useful
2020-10-14T21:50:41 < benishor> you don't want to offer the users the option of basically ignoring any outcomes
2020-10-14T21:50:49 < jadew> it's just that I'm also aware that the world is not perfect
2020-10-14T21:50:52 < benishor> unless they really try hard
2020-10-14T21:50:53 < jadew> and most developers are shit
2020-10-14T21:51:02 < benishor> sure, that's a different thing altogether
2020-10-14T21:51:12 < jadew> also, I'm aware that sometimes I might even use shit code, from those developers
2020-10-14T21:51:28 < jadew> in which case, I'll end up in the early days of java, that you guys talked about
2020-10-14T21:51:32 < jadew> which is not right
2020-10-14T21:51:54 < jadew> it means that you can't put a bubble around shit code/libs
2020-10-14T21:52:06 < jadew> they get to stink up your good stuff too
2020-10-14T21:52:37 < benishor> any problem can be solved by adding yet another layer of indirection
2020-10-14T21:52:59 < benishor> except you end up with a gazzilion of stack frames
2020-10-14T21:53:18 < benishor> so you can build on top of shitcode and abstract what you use of it too
2020-10-14T21:53:34 < benishor> that's why design patterns such as facade and mediators came to be
2020-10-14T21:53:47 < jadew> see, why not just declare the shit code as shit code and get unchecked exceptions instead?
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2020-10-14T21:53:49 < benishor> out of real eeds
2020-10-14T21:53:51 < jadew> maybe with like a tag
2020-10-14T21:53:57 < jadew> @shit_code
2020-10-14T21:54:10 < benishor> the language authors did not want this
2020-10-14T21:54:25 < jadew> well, that leads us back to my original point, that they're morons
2020-10-14T21:54:26 < benishor> one thing I learned in time is that no language is perfect whatsoever
2020-10-14T21:54:42 < benishor> there's always a right tool for the right job
2020-10-14T21:54:49 < benishor> but you can't have one good for all
2020-10-14T21:54:55 < jadew> that is true, but this is not about it being right or wrong, just that it's dumb
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2020-10-14T21:55:12 < jadew> I really thought about this today
2020-10-14T21:55:19 < jadew> and I came to the conclusion that I like the idea
2020-10-14T21:55:27 < jadew> in the same sense in which I would like everyone to be happy
2020-10-14T21:55:44 < jadew> but I just don't think you can pull it off
2020-10-14T21:56:12 < benishor> you get to answer a lot of these questions when you think of writing a language of your own
2020-10-14T21:56:33 < benishor> there's a nice online book here https://craftinginterpreters.com/
2020-10-14T21:56:52 < benishor> despite the name, it walks you through the process of writing an interpreter *and* a compiler/vm
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2020-10-14T21:57:07 < benishor> just by reading the book you will get a lot of "ahhas"
2020-10-14T21:57:14 < benishor> when it comes to language design
2020-10-14T21:57:30 < benishor> and why some features make it into the final spec and others not
2020-10-14T21:57:52 < benishor> java was supposed to be strong type and very pedantic at start
2020-10-14T21:58:09 < benishor> so that you won't have too many ways of writing the same shit
2020-10-14T21:58:38 < benishor> unlike other languages like say c++ or perl
2020-10-14T21:58:43 < jadew> benishor, I already wrote a language of my own maybe 15 years ago
2020-10-14T21:58:57 < benishor> jadew: cool. how complex was it? what features did it have?
2020-10-14T21:59:01 < jadew> with classes, namespaces, operator overloading, named parameters, lambdas and binding, etc
2020-10-14T21:59:14 < antto> the main question is: how was it called
2020-10-14T21:59:22 < jadew> it was called qil
2020-10-14T21:59:22 < benishor> is it available anywhere online?
2020-10-14T21:59:29 < benishor> I'd like to take a look
2020-10-14T21:59:29 < antto> meh
2020-10-14T21:59:32 < jadew> benishor, no, I gave up on it
2020-10-14T21:59:37 < jadew> but it did work
2020-10-14T21:59:48 < jadew> antto, quick interpreted language :)
2020-10-14T21:59:53 < jadew> I wrote it to replace PHP
2020-10-14T22:00:00 < benishor> good old php
2020-10-14T22:00:09 < benishor> whose consistency was bar to none
2020-10-14T22:00:21 < jadew> yeah, very silly language
2020-10-14T22:00:30 < benishor> functions with source/destination parameters mixed 
2020-10-14T22:00:43 < benishor> it was built on someone's knee
2020-10-14T22:00:58 < benishor> lately it shape shifted though and added a lot of goodies
2020-10-14T22:01:10 < jadew> benishor, yeah, they just exposed functions from various libraries, exactly how they were exported
2020-10-14T22:01:22 < jadew> so they didn't care about naming conventions or parameter orders
2020-10-14T22:01:32 < jadew> it's still crap
2020-10-14T22:01:39 < jadew> I still use it, but it's still crap
2020-10-14T22:02:02 < jadew> hasn't evolved enough
2020-10-14T22:02:05 < benishor> haven't touched it for the last 5 years or so. nowadays I'm writing more go and some lisp dialect
2020-10-14T22:02:39 < benishor> and you should try go when it comes to error handling. java will seem like a treat
2020-10-14T22:03:10 < benishor> some language features are quite opinionated but hey, it works for google
2020-10-14T22:04:38 < benishor> anyways, time to hit the sack. have a nice night guys
2020-10-14T22:04:45 < jadew> night
2020-10-14T22:05:00 < jadew> I have to work out first, otherwise I can't sleep the entire night...
2020-10-14T22:05:11 < benishor> what?
2020-10-14T22:05:17 < benishor> working out at night?
2020-10-14T22:05:20 < jadew> I wake up at 3 am every night
2020-10-14T22:05:28 < benishor> insomnie cronica?
2020-10-14T22:05:37 < jadew> normally I work out at about 6-7, but I couldn't today
2020-10-14T22:05:44 < benishor> tried CBD?
2020-10-14T22:05:49 < benishor> I heard good things about it
2020-10-14T22:05:51 < jadew> what's that?
2020-10-14T22:05:58 < antto> weed
2020-10-14T22:06:00 < benishor> https://www.healthline.com/nutrition/cbd-oil-benefits
2020-10-14T22:06:02 < benishor> weed oil
2020-10-14T22:06:02 < jadew> ah
2020-10-14T22:06:03 < antto> almost-weed
2020-10-14T22:06:08 < jadew> nah
2020-10-14T22:06:28 < Steffanx> https://imgur.com/gallery/EhDuxqy
2020-10-14T22:06:34 < jadew> my problem is that I used to stay awake all night for most of my adult life
2020-10-14T22:06:38 < benishor> I usually go for linden tea
2020-10-14T22:06:51 < jadew> so now it's difficult to get on with a normal schedule
2020-10-14T22:06:54 < benishor> I used to stay awake for days too, before I got a kid
2020-10-14T22:07:06 < benishor> but now I'm all dead and almost burried
2020-10-14T22:07:13 < benishor> so I enjoy sleep as much as I can
2020-10-14T22:07:27 < benishor> random wake ups are caused by anxiety
2020-10-14T22:07:50 < jadew> it's not random
2020-10-14T22:07:57 < jadew> 3-3:30
2020-10-14T22:08:02 < Steffanx> fuck it jadew. Be a man and just do it.
2020-10-14T22:08:19 < jadew> Steffanx, do what? weed?
2020-10-14T22:08:30 < Steffanx> Fix your schedule.
2020-10-14T22:08:37 < jadew> ah, that's what I'm doing
2020-10-14T22:08:39 < benishor> you can also try some sleeping pills
2020-10-14T22:08:47 < jadew> I don't want medical aid
2020-10-14T22:08:48 < benishor> imovane worked a treat for me
2020-10-14T22:08:56 < jadew> I'm sure I can do it naturally
2020-10-14T22:09:07 < Steffanx> Is romania that scary that you wake up by anxiety?
2020-10-14T22:09:31 < benishor> Steffanx: nah. that's the aftermath of panic attacks caused by some medical condition
2020-10-14T22:09:33 < jadew> it's not anxiety, I acquired a stupid habit of eating at 3 am :/
2020-10-14T22:09:40 < jadew> so now my body wakes up for food
2020-10-14T22:09:42 < benishor> I'm sure it happens anywhere in the world
2020-10-14T22:09:47 < Steffanx> lol, its what benishor said
2020-10-14T22:09:50 < benishor> eating at 3AM, oh wow
2020-10-14T22:10:15 < Steffanx> Cant be that hard to stop doing that jadew
2020-10-14T22:10:20 < Steffanx> and get rid of that habbit
2020-10-14T22:10:24 < jadew> Steffanx, I've done it several times
2020-10-14T22:10:28 < benishor> empty the fridge
2020-10-14T22:10:30 < jadew> oh, I'm not eating at 3 am anymore
2020-10-14T22:10:36 < benishor> or lock it and throw away the keys
2020-10-14T22:10:44 < Steffanx> unless your son also acquired this habbit and wakes you up.
2020-10-14T22:10:52 < jadew> when I wake up like that (like last night), I just stay in bed until my alarm goes off at 7
2020-10-14T22:11:02 < jadew> that way I let my body know that there's nothing to be done at that hour
2020-10-14T22:11:15 < benishor> 'nite guys \o
2020-10-14T22:11:27 < jadew> night
2020-10-14T22:12:00 < Steffanx> Adios mr benishor
2020-10-14T22:12:12 < Steffanx> its not your body is your mind mr jadew
2020-10-14T22:12:28 < jadew> anyway, I'm off to do my exercises, because they'll pump me up, but I can at least go to bed at ~ midnight
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2020-10-14T22:15:02 < Steffanx> pumper too now?
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2020-10-14T22:29:56 < Laurenceb> >get into Cambridge uni
2020-10-14T22:30:05 < Laurenceb> >Victoria Bateman is your personal tutor
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2020-10-14T23:19:07 < jadew> and I'm back
2020-10-14T23:19:22 < jadew> have they made any new movies this year?
2020-10-14T23:19:43 < jadew> I guess all the ER type movies went on
2020-10-14T23:19:55 < jadew> *tv shows
2020-10-14T23:21:20 < Steffanx> Sure they did
2020-10-14T23:22:39 < Steffanx> I count at least 42 in my movie lib. And .. thats like a small portion of the total amount of  new movies
2020-10-14T23:22:54 < jadew> I wonder how they handled covid
2020-10-14T23:23:07 < jadew> I guess testing + isolation for a couple of days for everyone?
2020-10-14T23:23:34 < Steffanx> Or it was done in  2019.
2020-10-14T23:25:27 < jadew> I guess this christmas I'll have to rewatch some old 
2020-10-14T23:25:42 < jadew> christmas theme movie (hit enter by mistake)
2020-10-14T23:25:48 < jadew> *themed
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2020-10-14T23:34:59 < Laurenceb> >British Nationalism and Patriotism is like being a retired hardman who spends his days tending his lawn and who didn't like being reminded of his past.
2020-10-14T23:35:02 < Laurenceb> lolling
2020-10-14T23:36:54 < Laurenceb> >Today we're incessantly demanded to acknowledge and celebrate the fact that ''British Values'' are 'tolerance' or 'freedom' or 'mutual respect' and various other slogans and soundbites peddled by PR companies and think tanks. In reality British values consists of conquering Indians and killing blacks.
2020-10-14T23:37:28 < Laurenceb> my sides are in orbit
2020-10-14T23:38:23 < Steffanx> Lol jadew.
2020-10-14T23:38:48 < Steffanx> Someone made me watch the movie Last Christmas. It wasnt eve  as bad as i expected 
2020-10-14T23:39:50 < Steffanx> even*
2020-10-14T23:41:33 < Laurenceb> it sounds pretty bad
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2020-10-14T23:42:08 < Steffanx> The only movie you watch during xmas is... home alone (1&2) jadew
2020-10-14T23:42:36 < Laurenceb> he likes the Trump bit
2020-10-14T23:42:43 < Steffanx> Laurenceb thats why I said jadew and not Laurenceb 
2020-10-14T23:42:43 < Laurenceb> >my hero
2020-10-14T23:42:59 < Steffanx> Your taste in anything is fucked up
2020-10-14T23:43:00 < kakisback> and that movie where the snowman flies
2020-10-14T23:43:13 < Steffanx> Ive never seen that one kakisback 
2020-10-14T23:44:45 < kakisback> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=upH1QZU4Z0Y
2020-10-14T23:46:06 < kakisback> now you have seen it
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--- Day changed Thu Oct 15 2020
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2020-10-15T00:15:21 < kakisback> Steffanx: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Tt6JSBe4tXQ musics
2020-10-15T00:16:03 < Steffanx> Im disappointed 
2020-10-15T00:17:02 < kakisback> it wasn't blue?
2020-10-15T00:23:41 < Steffanx> Da
2020-10-15T00:24:55 < Mangy_Dog> Right after getting all my pins working, ive still got 1 strangee issue. When I build in arduino PA11 will run PWM fine. Does as expected. But if i build in sloeber, PA11 doesnt work with PWM. But will work with digitalWrite
2020-10-15T00:25:04 < Mangy_Dog> Any ideas what that would ve>
2020-10-15T00:25:05 < Mangy_Dog> be?
2020-10-15T00:34:04 < zyp> something is not doing what it should correctly
2020-10-15T00:35:18 < qyx> if it works with digitalweite, I would say it is configured as output and not AF
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2020-10-15T00:41:13 < jadew> Steffanx, watched home alone last year I think
2020-10-15T00:41:53 < jadew> I think I'll go in a different direction this year
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2020-10-15T00:42:18 < jadew> Santa's Slay, Krampus, Rare Exports
2020-10-15T00:44:18 < Steffanx> Should watch it EACH year. With the son, jadew
2020-10-15T00:44:44 < jadew> Steffanx, that's how we saw it last year (or the year before - not sure)
2020-10-15T00:45:10 < jadew> I remember I wasn't sure he should see all the violence, so he might have been younger, because now we can watch anything
2020-10-15T00:46:04 < jadew> well, almost anything
2020-10-15T00:47:00 < kakisback> I think I have never seen rare exports
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2020-10-15T00:52:34 < antto> Steffanx, here's some musical compensation for u: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X5oUKq1aM0k
2020-10-15T00:52:47 < jadew> I'm off to bed
2020-10-15T00:52:50 < jadew> night
2020-10-15T00:53:25 < Steffanx> Too much boom boom
2020-10-15T00:53:37 < antto> ur such a princess
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2020-10-15T01:31:50 < karlp> freecad transparency a little too literally: https://bin.jvnv.net/file/ImpDF.png :)
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2020-10-15T02:11:57 < qyx> how would you do tamper detection in a 20mm deep enclosure?
2020-10-15T02:13:28 < qyx> ALS, IR LED/reflective sensor, tactile switch..?
2020-10-15T02:18:49 < karlp> any idea how one places an image on a face in freecad?
2020-10-15T02:19:15 < karlp> there's an image plane thing, but it does 1px=1mm svg to bitmap conversion, so placing a svg on a 10mm face does... nothing
2020-10-15T02:19:18 < karlp> trying to simulate stickers
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2020-10-15T09:53:39 < zyp> qyx, that sounds like a generic question requiring a specific answer
2020-10-15T09:54:22 < zyp> tamper detection would be a sort of security, and how to do security depends on your threat model
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2020-10-15T11:51:46 < qyx> zyp: thats kind of a generic answer :P
2020-10-15T11:52:06 < zyp> that's what you get when you ask a generic question
2020-10-15T11:52:29 < zyp> what sort of device is this and what sort of tampering are you trying to guard against?
2020-10-15T11:53:03 < qyx> just to detect opening of the box
2020-10-15T11:53:15 < zyp> why?
2020-10-15T11:53:28 < qyx> of course you can always bypass it if you want enough
2020-10-15T11:53:56 < qyx> to know if the measurement may be distorted by manipulating with it
2020-10-15T11:54:19 < zyp> what is it measuring?
2020-10-15T11:54:46 < qyx> haha
2020-10-15T11:54:47 < zyp> how about an accelerometer to detect motion, or will it be subjected to motion during normal use?
2020-10-15T11:54:50 < qyx> acceleration
2020-10-15T11:54:57 < qyx> exactly
2020-10-15T11:55:30 < qyx> I am already detecting if the box is tilted as a result of unwanted manipulation
2020-10-15T11:58:16 < zyp> how is the enclosure designed and held together?
2020-10-15T11:58:21 < zyp> box and lid?
2020-10-15T11:58:32 < zyp> or clipped together halves or whatever
2020-10-15T12:00:15 < qyx> http://www.gainta.com/pdf/g104mf.pdf
2020-10-15T12:00:28 < zyp> ALS is probably a nice and simple trick, assuming the enclosure is completely opaque
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2020-10-15T12:01:19 < zyp> easy to defeat if you know about it though, just open the board in a dark room and put a bit of tape over it
2020-10-15T12:01:55 < qyx> yeah I am using ALS in the current design
2020-10-15T12:02:45 < zyp> but is this against deliberate tampering, or somebody accidentally fucking up the measurements?
2020-10-15T12:02:48 < qyx> it kind of work except when the LED is lit
2020-10-15T12:02:59 < qyx> accidentally
2020-10-15T12:03:33 < qyx> maybe I could fit a HV generator inside..
2020-10-15T12:03:51 < zyp> is the LED visible externally?
2020-10-15T12:04:28 < qyx> I want to use a light pipe, so yes
2020-10-15T12:05:01 < zyp> maybe a lid switch would be more reliable then
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2020-10-15T12:51:47 < englishman> or a time of flight sensor on the far end pointing at the lid
2020-10-15T12:55:04 < karlp> ALS is ambient light sensor?
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2020-10-15T14:37:41 < BrainDamage> seal the box with overpressure and have an abs pressure sensor
2020-10-15T14:37:53 < BrainDamage> detect sudden pressure drops
2020-10-15T14:39:36 < BrainDamage> if the sensor is enough sensitive, could even sense the differential pressure created by the lid being lifte
2020-10-15T14:41:30 < qyx> great idea
2020-10-15T14:41:48 < qyx> not kidding
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2020-10-15T15:06:15 < Mangy_Dog> my f103 looks like its got braces!
2020-10-15T15:06:20 < Mangy_Dog> now with 2 hot wires :p
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2020-10-15T15:16:04 < GyrosGeier> hm
2020-10-15T15:16:41 < GyrosGeier> on the STM32F301C8, can I route the DAC output to the comparators without also connecting it to a pin?
2020-10-15T15:16:57 < GyrosGeier> CubeMX doesn't let me, but it should be possible, no?
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2020-10-15T15:17:34 < karlp> it's listed as a main feature of the comparator....
2020-10-15T15:17:41 < karlp> so cubemx might just need convincing a bit more
2020-10-15T15:18:08 < karlp> at least for 303, no idea bout 301, what's it got removed?
2020-10-15T15:18:47 < karlp> ooh, it has it's own refman
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2020-10-15T15:19:13 < karlp> looks like you cna hve dac channel 1 onlyt
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2020-10-15T15:29:24 < qyx> comparator or opamp?
2020-10-15T15:29:43 < qyx> also, pos or neg input?
2020-10-15T15:30:00 < qyx> iirc it was possible only for one
2020-10-15T15:30:16 < GyrosGeier> comparator neg input on all three comparators
2020-10-15T15:30:33 < qyx> that should work
2020-10-15T15:30:34 < GyrosGeier> but I need the pin for ADC_IN5
2020-10-15T15:30:45 < GyrosGeier> (PA4, that is)
2020-10-15T15:31:42 < GyrosGeier> DAC1_OUT can only go to PA4, and OUT1 is blocked in DAC1 setup if PA4 is ADC_IN5
2020-10-15T15:32:11 < GyrosGeier> I don't need the DAC output outside, because it's only interesting for the comparators
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2020-10-15T16:07:02 < karlp> well, trust he ref man, not cube pin selector
2020-10-15T16:07:39 < karlp> if you don't set pa4 to dac AFIO, it won't go out.
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2020-10-15T16:36:40 < Mangy_Dog> do most of you setup your projects through cubemx?
2020-10-15T16:36:57 < Steffanx> NEIN
2020-10-15T16:37:02 < Mangy_Dog> is that basically the propper done thing?
2020-10-15T16:37:03 < Steffanx> Unless im lazy
2020-10-15T16:37:10 < Steffanx> really lazy*
2020-10-15T16:37:13 < Mangy_Dog> oh
2020-10-15T16:37:18 < Steffanx> usually im just lazy, not REALLY lazy.
2020-10-15T16:37:41 < qyx> I used cubemx for exactly 0 projects
2020-10-15T16:37:46 < Mangy_Dog> i mean i know i get flac for using stm32duino/arduino backend stuff
2020-10-15T16:37:53 < Mangy_Dog> but i have no idea how to set up properly
2020-10-15T16:38:09 < qyx> with whatever deterministic you know
2020-10-15T16:38:15 < Mangy_Dog> and i wont lie, cubemx pin configuration setup is pretty cool
2020-10-15T16:38:34 < qyx> if it does whatever it wants regardless of your settings, it is probably not the right tool
2020-10-15T16:38:46 < Steffanx> I like the tool too, but dont like it for code generation
2020-10-15T16:38:47 < Mangy_Dog> would have solved me some issues if i had used it before as it automatically picks up on pwm conflicts and such
2020-10-15T16:39:36 < mawk> nice vertical contamination curve we have in zuid holland Steffanx 
2020-10-15T16:39:40 < mawk> you're jealous?
2020-10-15T16:41:32 < Steffanx> look at Groningen mawk
2020-10-15T16:42:11 < Steffanx> but yeah its waaaay worse there
2020-10-15T16:42:15 < Steffanx> fuckers
2020-10-15T16:42:37 < Steffanx> now i cannot buy beer anymore after 20.00
2020-10-15T16:44:04 < mawk> lol
2020-10-15T16:44:33 < mawk> masks are mandatory inside right?
2020-10-15T16:44:42 < mawk> I can film you inside any shop, no-one has a mask but me
2020-10-15T16:45:02 < mawk> even employees half the time
2020-10-15T16:45:58 < Steffanx> no, not mandatory, unless they shop itself forces you to.
2020-10-15T16:46:17 < Steffanx> Here in dutchland the government CANNOT make it mandatory. Yet.
2020-10-15T16:47:38 < mawk> well all the shops have signs that tell you to have masks
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2020-10-15T16:53:32 < karlp> 13:42 <Steffanx> now i cannot buy beer anymore after 20.00
2020-10-15T16:53:42 < karlp> I didn't think you took drugs Steffanx, haven' tyou always been on that?
2020-10-15T16:55:20 < Steffanx> The heaviest drug i ever took in pill for was probably.... paracetamol
2020-10-15T16:55:47 < Steffanx> and i dont give a damn about not being allowed to buy beer anymore after 20.00 :P
2020-10-15T16:55:51 < Steffanx> i can just by it before that
2020-10-15T16:57:17 < mawk> that's the spirit karlp 
2020-10-15T16:57:59 < Steffanx> but i wont buy beer
2020-10-15T16:58:04 < Steffanx> Im not a big fan of beer
2020-10-15T16:58:07 < Steffanx> fuc kbeer
2020-10-15T16:58:20 < qyx> true
2020-10-15T16:58:22 < Steffanx> I dont need drugs karlp. i have my own mind. That's enough.
2020-10-15T16:58:35 < Steffanx> recreational drugs that is
2020-10-15T16:58:35 < qyx> I lose my mind even without drugs
2020-10-15T16:58:42 < Steffanx> like mr mawk
2020-10-15T16:59:03 < mawk> not all drugs are for the mind
2020-10-15T16:59:13 < mawk> you have drugs for your body, drugs for your soul
2020-10-15T16:59:34 < Steffanx> See. i know nothing about drugs
2020-10-15T17:00:10 < mawk> half of the nitrogen atoms in your body are artificial, so now either you sacrifice yourself on the altar of modernity, or you accept that better living is possible through chemistry
2020-10-15T17:02:51 < Steffanx> nah ty
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2020-10-15T17:03:50 < Steffanx> If a doctor ever subscribes some meds ill probably be find taking them. but otherwise, no thanks. And no, not Dr. Mawk. Nor Dr. Blaxter.
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2020-10-15T17:08:14 < mawk> :(
2020-10-15T17:16:02 -!- kakinop [25211665@37-33-22-101.bb.dnainternet.fi] has joined ##stm32
2020-10-15T17:16:57 < Cracki> artificial nitrogen wat
2020-10-15T17:23:08 < qyx> mawk gets his tissue from NPK fertilizers
2020-10-15T17:25:01  * qyx is going to eat some wuerstchen with much NO3-
2020-10-15T17:25:36 < mawk> fertilizer made from atmospheric nitrogen Cracki 
2020-10-15T17:26:00 < mawk> NH3 from N2
2020-10-15T17:27:32 < Cracki> apropos wuerstchen. "gherkins" comes from Gürkchen, small cucumbers, pickles
2020-10-15T17:28:12 < mawk> I always knew this word was suspicious
2020-10-15T17:28:19 < Cracki> brits can't german
2020-10-15T17:28:36 < Cracki> >gherkin in Britain, Ireland, Australia, South Africa and New Zealand
2020-10-15T17:28:36 < qyx> we know "ogurky", small cucumbers
2020-10-15T17:28:42 < Cracki> o
2020-10-15T17:29:12 < qyx> idk why the "o"
2020-10-15T17:29:56 < zyp> normal cucumbers are «agurk» here
2020-10-15T17:30:06 < Cracki> a
2020-10-15T17:31:46 < zyp> pickles are «sylteagurk», literally pickled cucumber
2020-10-15T17:31:55 < Cracki> sounds salted
2020-10-15T17:32:58 < Cracki> we have an island called Sylt, north sea, I'm guessing that's salted as well
2020-10-15T17:33:09 < zyp> no, salting -> salting, sylting -> pickling
2020-10-15T17:33:14 < Cracki> or maybe it's from "silt"
2020-10-15T17:33:20 < Cracki> ok
2020-10-15T17:33:27 < Cracki> [ay]
2020-10-15T17:36:11 < mawk> if I translate the french for pickle to english it's hornbooby
2020-10-15T17:36:16 < mawk> cornichon
2020-10-15T17:36:23 < karlp> new to me audiofoolery: https://korgnutube.com/en/gallery/
2020-10-15T17:51:31 < GyrosGeier> 15:42 < Steffanx> now i cannot buy beer anymore after 20.00
2020-10-15T17:51:50 < GyrosGeier> so basically like it has been in Bavaria since 1987
2020-10-15T17:52:00 < apathy> then buy it for 19.99 like we do in the USA
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2020-10-15T17:58:33 < GyrosGeier> hm
2020-10-15T17:58:52 < qyx> karlp: a white-haired japan guitarist?
2020-10-15T17:59:04 < GyrosGeier> if I route the COMP2 output to TIM2_IC4 internally, how can I use that in TIM2?
2020-10-15T17:59:20 < GyrosGeier> if I enable CH4 it wants another input pin
2020-10-15T17:59:34 < GyrosGeier> but I want an internal link only
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2020-10-15T18:24:19 < qyx> musics https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WbgT9EXnzQ0
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2020-10-15T18:52:54 < bitmask> what are synchronous buck regs
2020-10-15T18:53:28 < qyx> they use low side mosfet instead of a diode
2020-10-15T18:53:37 < qyx> ie. synchronous rectification
2020-10-15T18:54:07 < karlp> bt-sig wants _each_ page to be scanned and returned to them, not just the signature pages.
2020-10-15T18:54:11 < karlp> 50 pages of scans alter....
2020-10-15T18:54:12 < bitmask> hmm
2020-10-15T18:57:32 < Steffanx> Cannot do it digitally karlp?
2020-10-15T18:57:34 < Steffanx> Digital signature?
2020-10-15T19:00:29 < karlp> apparently not, that woudl be modern.
2020-10-15T19:01:19 < karlp> the pdf doesn't evne let you enter text for the "print here" bits either
2020-10-15T19:03:31 < Steffanx> lol
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2020-10-15T20:38:04 < karlp> man, bt mesh reallllllly_ doesn't want very big packets
2020-10-15T20:40:14 < antto> https://i.imgur.com/gJmyzWC.png
2020-10-15T20:48:31 -!- oofus [~quassel@109.159.227.70] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer]
2020-10-15T20:50:00 < Steffanx> thanks antto
2020-10-15T20:59:31 -!- upgrdman [~upgrdman@blender/artist/upgrdman] has joined ##stm32
2020-10-15T21:05:14 < Steffanx> Damn you removed it antto  
2020-10-15T21:05:28 < antto> removed wot?
2020-10-15T21:05:58 < Steffanx> Your wonderful blender screenshot
2020-10-15T21:06:06 < antto> i haven't
2020-10-15T21:06:16 < antto> ur TV is broken
2020-10-15T21:06:30 < Steffanx> Nope
2020-10-15T21:07:09 < Steffanx> Hmm the app says so
2020-10-15T21:07:26 < antto> the wat
2020-10-15T21:07:45 < antto> bruh.. ur not using a comput0r?
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2020-10-15T21:15:31 < Steffanx> My phone computes.
2020-10-15T21:15:46 < antto> obviously it can't compute a png ;P~
2020-10-15T21:17:42 < Steffanx> http://imgur.com/gJmyzWC
2020-10-15T21:18:21 < Steffanx> Hm its zhe app
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2020-10-15T21:22:21 < catphish> morning
2020-10-15T21:29:28 < Steffanx> Bye catphish 
2020-10-15T21:31:57 -!- Laurenceb [~laurence@39.200.208.46.dyn.plus.net] has joined ##stm32
2020-10-15T21:32:08 < Laurenceb> >8kun down
2020-10-15T21:32:16 < Laurenceb> reee no shitpoisting 4 me
2020-10-15T21:32:49 -!- tcth_ [~tcth@77.109.191.152] has joined ##stm32
2020-10-15T21:34:02 < Laurenceb> hotwheelz 1: codemonkey: 0
2020-10-15T21:34:06 < Steffanx> I dont even want to know Laurenceb 
2020-10-15T21:34:29 < Laurenceb> epic DDOS battles of web history
2020-10-15T21:34:54 -!- [1]MrMobius [~MrMobius@208.58.206.154] has joined ##stm32
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2020-10-15T21:35:53 < Laurenceb> >twitter banning tabloid gossip trash
2020-10-15T21:36:02 < Laurenceb> wtf I love censorship now
2020-10-15T21:38:03 < Laurenceb> muh ebil Biden family crony-ism group, said the Trump family
2020-10-15T21:38:18 -!- Streaker [~Streaker@unaffiliated/streaker] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer]
2020-10-15T21:40:10 < catphish> i like censorship when they're censoring people who i don't agree with!
2020-10-15T21:40:28 < Laurenceb> lol
2020-10-15T21:41:04 -!- mode/##stm32 [+q *!*@unaffiliated/catphish] by ChanServ
2020-10-15T21:41:07 -!- mode/##stm32 [+qq Me!*@* tooo!*@*] by ChanServ
2020-10-15T21:41:08 < Steffanx> lol
2020-10-15T21:41:28 -!- mode/##stm32 [-q *!*@unaffiliated/catphish] by ChanServ
2020-10-15T21:41:30 < catphish> harsh but fair
2020-10-15T21:41:43 < Steffanx> <3
2020-10-15T21:41:52 < apathy> don't back down now. tell them "rules for thee but not for me", catphish 
2020-10-15T21:42:17 < catphish> it's okay, i have my own irc channel where i can arbitrarily ban people i don't like
2020-10-15T21:43:32 < Steffanx> Where can i find this channel?
2020-10-15T21:44:09 < catphish> Steffanx: ##networking
2020-10-15T21:44:18 < catphish> you should join
2020-10-15T21:44:28 < Steffanx> Already banned \o/
2020-10-15T21:44:32 < catphish> :p
2020-10-15T21:44:35 < Steffanx> Fastest ban EVER
2020-10-15T21:44:44 < Steffanx> Thanks, im glad i could be part of this
2020-10-15T21:44:53 < qyx> wat
2020-10-15T21:44:55 < catphish> nice game, thanks for playing
2020-10-15T21:45:13 < qyx> we were talking about drugs recently
2020-10-15T21:45:14 < catphish> you are of course welcome in ##networking really :)
2020-10-15T21:45:33 < catphish> we talk about ethernet n' shit
2020-10-15T21:45:37 < Steffanx> Yes, how much did you use now, qyx?
2020-10-15T21:46:08 < catphish> i'm using drugs right now, brb, need more
2020-10-15T21:46:17 < Steffanx> Enjoy.
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2020-10-15T21:47:39 < catphish> so, i'm trying to work out if i can buy a home automation system that does what i want for my new house, or if i should build one, or if i should just not bother and use good old fashioned switches :)
2020-10-15T21:49:52 < Laurenceb> or just not have a larp house
2020-10-15T21:50:26 < Laurenceb> looks like uk smart meter system will use zigbee tbh
2020-10-15T21:50:28 < catphish> specifically, i want totally standard wiring, totally standard switches, but then i want to be able to put solid state switches in between that can take control, read the input from the switches and behave like it's not even there, but then also accept commands from an API to automate things
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2020-10-15T21:50:36 < Laurenceb> and everything will tie into that
2020-10-15T21:51:00 < Laurenceb> so uk gov can tax ur washing machine etc
2020-10-15T21:51:14 < catphish> hue uses zigbee right? i like that
2020-10-15T21:51:22 < Laurenceb> yeah
2020-10-15T21:52:41 < catphish> so i want someting that sits between my light switches and my lights, if someone toggles the switch, i want it to do what the person is expecting, but then i want to also be able to take charge remotely
2020-10-15T21:53:18 < catphish> and ideally i want this to control my heating valves too, with temperature sensors, a clock timer, and again, remote takeover
2020-10-15T21:54:10 < catphish> but from the perspective of someone in the house, i want t to be totally natural, and i want the wiring backward compatible with a dumb high voltage swiching system
2020-10-15T21:54:28 < catphish> (so it's easy to retrofit or in my case un-fit)
2020-10-15T21:54:52 < catphish> but also easy for people who don't have any interest in smart home, so just use like its a normal house
2020-10-15T21:54:59 < catphish> *to just
2020-10-15T21:55:02 < zyp> catphish, IMO it sounds like you've got a similar goal as me, but are getting hung up on some dumb details
2020-10-15T21:55:29 < catphish> the critical detail for me (i think) is that it's backward compatible with old humans
2020-10-15T21:55:38 < Laurenceb> this sounds like smart energy or whatever its called
2020-10-15T21:55:48 < Laurenceb> the standard uk gov is pushing atm
2020-10-15T21:56:05 < zyp> the critical detail for me is that lights should still be operable without a central single point of failure
2020-10-15T21:56:22 < catphish> right, i think we're thinking along the same lines
2020-10-15T21:56:26 < zyp> yes
2020-10-15T21:57:09 < catphish> i'm rewiring the whole house, but i don't want to skip high voltage wiring to light switches, i *could* but it seems dumb to prevent someone in the future being able to wire it "dumb"
2020-10-15T21:57:21 < zyp> and I've concluded that ZLL qualifies, so that's what I went for
2020-10-15T21:57:48 < catphish> ZLL?
2020-10-15T21:57:55 < zyp> zigbee light link
2020-10-15T21:58:06 < zyp> in my case ikea trådfri, but hue is same same
2020-10-15T21:58:08 < catphish> i'll have a look
2020-10-15T21:58:21 < catphish> what do the switches look like?
2020-10-15T21:58:49 < zyp> I'm using sunricher switches that fit in normal switch frames
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2020-10-15T21:59:14 < catphish> i figured i could run high voltage wiring to the switches, but then just use that wiring as a low voltage power supply, but leave the physical wiring backward compatible with a legacy installation
2020-10-15T21:59:25 < zyp> https://www.sunricher.com/single-color-wall-mounted-zigbee-push-button-remote-sr-zg9001k2-dim.html <- these
2020-10-15T21:59:32 < zyp> except rebranded by a norwegian importer
2020-10-15T21:59:55 < catphish> the most important thing for me though is zero external dependency, i don't mind is the whole system is "smart" at all, as long as it's 1) not battery powered 2) not reliant on cloud
2020-10-15T22:00:11 < zyp> oh, these are battery powered
2020-10-15T22:00:20 < zyp> batteries lasts for years so I don't mind
2020-10-15T22:00:27 < catphish> battery powered seems silly, when i can run wires to them
2020-10-15T22:01:10 < zyp> it's not silly, a battery is cheaper than an AC/DC adapter for every switch
2020-10-15T22:01:14 < catphish> so that system has a zigbee relay box, a zigbee wireless switch, and then can be taken over remotely (also by zigbee)
2020-10-15T22:01:17 < catphish> right?
2020-10-15T22:01:21 < zyp> no
2020-10-15T22:01:52 < qyx> I am quite surprised zigbee is a thing in 2020
2020-10-15T22:02:09 < catphish> zyp: oh, its an LED controller
2020-10-15T22:02:19 < zyp> what I did was just let the electrician do everything in the traditional way with traditional switches and traditional lamps with E27 sockets
2020-10-15T22:02:31 < effractur> so just unstall KNX or zigbee stuff
2020-10-15T22:02:54 < effractur> at least an somehat open standard
2020-10-15T22:02:58 < zyp> so I started out with completely traditional wiring
2020-10-15T22:03:13 < catphish> zyp: i'd also prefer to let the electrician do things the traditional way, because i assume that all future systems will support that wiring layout
2020-10-15T22:03:27 < zyp> then I replaced all the bulbs with ikea trådfri bulbs, so every bulb has its own zigbee radio
2020-10-15T22:04:14 < catphish> so you just use zigbee bulbs, hardwire the switches on, and replace them with zigbee switches?
2020-10-15T22:04:29 < zyp> exactly
2020-10-15T22:04:41 < catphish> what's the "zigbee controller" box for?
2020-10-15T22:04:48 < zyp> what zigbee controller?
2020-10-15T22:04:51 < catphish> or does your setup not use that?
2020-10-15T22:05:09 < catphish> oh, i think i misunderstood
2020-10-15T22:05:11 < catphish> this link: https://www.sunricher.com/single-color-wall-mounted-zigbee-push-button-remote-sr-zg9001k2-dim.html
2020-10-15T22:05:16 < kakinop> network connectivity?
2020-10-15T22:05:18 < catphish> shows a LED driver box
2020-10-15T22:05:32 < zyp> ah, I don't have those :)
2020-10-15T22:05:33 < bitmask> hmm, new macbook pro power cable seems to be a different material, possibly more rugged
2020-10-15T22:05:44 < zyp> those would be receivers for dumb led strips or something, I guess
2020-10-15T22:05:55 < catphish> zyp: what about remote control? do you have an ethernet to zigbee setup?
2020-10-15T22:06:07 < effractur> na just plug a zigbee stick in a raspi
2020-10-15T22:06:11 < zyp> I've got a conbee 2 usb stick running with deconz
2020-10-15T22:06:14 < effractur> en run some mqtt to zigbee autoamtion 
2020-10-15T22:06:25 < catphish> zyp: cool, i think this might meet my needs
2020-10-15T22:06:37 < catphish> what to the buttons on the switch do?
2020-10-15T22:06:50 < zyp> left is on/off, right is hold to dim up/down
2020-10-15T22:06:59 < catphish> makes sense
2020-10-15T22:07:16 < catphish> one downside to my original plan was no dimming
2020-10-15T22:07:28 < catphish> as it would use normal switches, and normal bulbs
2020-10-15T22:07:43 < zyp> it's a bit dumb, I originally thought they had off/down on left buttong and on/up on right button
2020-10-15T22:07:53 < zyp> the four channel switches do
2020-10-15T22:08:10 < catphish> a 4-button switch (like hue) is probably better
2020-10-15T22:08:13 < zyp> https://www.sunricher.com/single-color-wall-mounted-4-groups-zigbee-push-button-remote-sr-zg9001k8-dim.html
2020-10-15T22:08:51 < catphish> well that's just a mess :(
2020-10-15T22:09:02 < zyp> it doesn't really matter, I just think it's silly they are not consistent
2020-10-15T22:09:23 < catphish> is there one with 2 switches?
2020-10-15T22:09:29 < catphish> i mean to control 2 lights
2020-10-15T22:09:53 < zyp> not sure, but there are some with four buttons
2020-10-15T22:10:14 < zyp> something like on/off, dim, color and whatever the fourth did
2020-10-15T22:10:18 < Steffanx> Aliexpress does have them
2020-10-15T22:10:32 < catphish> https://www.sunricher.com/zigbee-series/zigbee-remotes.html
2020-10-15T22:11:00 < catphish> nice selectio 
2020-10-15T22:11:17 < catphish> this one looks better for a single light: https://www.sunricher.com/single-color-wall-mounted-2-groups-zigbee-push-button-remote-sr-zg9001k4-dim.html
2020-10-15T22:11:22 < zyp> true
2020-10-15T22:11:53 < zyp> I actually got most of mine secondhand :p
2020-10-15T22:12:19 < Steffanx> Im lazy, i just got some single button xiaomi ones there and there
2020-10-15T22:12:26 < Laurenceb> lol they are still at it https://forum.nasaspaceflight.com/index.php?topic=49270.380
2020-10-15T22:12:28 < Steffanx> taped to somewhere
2020-10-15T22:12:33 < zyp> the round ones?
2020-10-15T22:12:58 < Steffanx> Semi-square case with a round push button
2020-10-15T22:13:15 < zyp> ah, the aqara one or what they call it?
2020-10-15T22:13:28 < Steffanx> yeah
2020-10-15T22:13:35 < zyp> I don't think they are ZLL, at least the round ones are not
2020-10-15T22:13:45 < zyp> so you can't bind them directly to the light
2020-10-15T22:13:45 < Laurenceb> emdrive activity correlates inversely with qanon, who could have predicted this
2020-10-15T22:14:27 < Steffanx> i dont have that that's true, but didnt try to bind them directly
2020-10-15T22:14:38 < zyp> ZLL switches sends the on/off commands directly to the lights, so they work even if the rest of the zigbee mesh dies, including the coordinator
2020-10-15T22:14:39 < Steffanx> I must say im not even sure how you even do that with the conbee (if that's even possible)
2020-10-15T22:14:51 < zyp> and that was a goal for me because I don't want a single point of failure
2020-10-15T22:16:19 < zyp> imagine whatever thing you have running deconz crashing overnight and when you wake up you can't even turn on any lights before you go fix it :p
2020-10-15T22:16:55 < Steffanx> already been there :)
2020-10-15T22:17:03 < Steffanx> > reboot hass
2020-10-15T22:17:31 < zyp> silly designs like that is what turns smart homes into dumb homes
2020-10-15T22:19:04 < catphish> yeh, i really want my system to either be decentralized, or run through a central, but simple, MCU based controller
2020-10-15T22:19:23 < Steffanx> No you dont want that
2020-10-15T22:19:28 < zyp> single point of failure is bad either way
2020-10-15T22:19:29 < Steffanx> because then it still fails it it fails :P
2020-10-15T22:19:39 < Steffanx> *when it fails
2020-10-15T22:20:00 < catphish> the other question is how reliable the zigbee transport is
2020-10-15T22:20:45 < zyp> IMO state and operational logic should be decentralized with central oversight
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2020-10-15T22:21:29 < Steffanx> How can you even see if its ZLL or not (can you see that in the deconz tool? ) I never really bothered looking into that
2020-10-15T22:21:31 < zyp> e.g. heating should be controlled by thermostats that can work standalone, central system should just send a setpoint
2020-10-15T22:21:47 < zyp> Steffanx, the deconz gui has all that stuff
2020-10-15T22:21:48 < catphish> at its absolute simplest, my plan was for each light fitting to have an stm32 and a solid state relay
2020-10-15T22:21:55 < zyp> not phoscon, but the qt gui
2020-10-15T22:22:08 < Steffanx> Yeah, im looking at that right now. i think
2020-10-15T22:22:11 < catphish> so it accepts input from a regular switch, but also from a network
2020-10-15T22:22:55 < Steffanx> but yeah, it does not seem to mention ZLL, where it does for most of the ikea stuff
2020-10-15T22:24:22 < Steffanx> Anyway, i never had troubles with my central system, until recently. Some deconz update broke stuff heavily :P
2020-10-15T22:25:07 < catphish> i'm keen to avoid centralized, but at the same time, keen to avoid proprietary ugly switches
2020-10-15T22:25:39 < zyp> well, ZLL/ZHA is mix and match
2020-10-15T22:26:04 < catphish> some rooms will probably have LED spotlights too, so those zigbee LED controllers might be useful too
2020-10-15T22:26:14 < zyp> I went with the sunricher ones because I wanted something that would fit in standard frames, otherwise I'd just go with the ikea ones
2020-10-15T22:26:20 < zyp> and hue ones would also work
2020-10-15T22:26:27 < zyp> and a bunch of other brands
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2020-10-15T22:26:34 < zyp> or make your own, it's an open standard :)
2020-10-15T22:27:28 < qyx> you mean it is open since you extracted the encryption key?
2020-10-15T22:28:11 < catphish> i'm not going to make my own switches or radios :)
2020-10-15T22:28:53 < zyp> it's only the touchlink pairing that relies on a secret key, I think you could just include it in the mesh in the traditional way to not have to deal with that
2020-10-15T22:29:05 < zyp> but either way it's leaked and available online :p
2020-10-15T22:29:42 < catphish> zigbee does seem like a sensible way forward
2020-10-15T22:29:49 < zyp> catphish, I was going to until I found out the sunricher ones already have all the features I wanted
2020-10-15T22:30:03 < catphish> just need to find a nice combination of bulbs, traditional switches, led drivers, etc
2020-10-15T22:30:24 < zyp> last I checked, ikea bulbs are unbeatable on price
2020-10-15T22:30:31 < catphish> does zigbee do heating?
2020-10-15T22:30:47 < zyp> yes, but I don't have experience with that
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2020-10-15T22:32:27 < zyp> I bought a zigbee thermostat to test
2020-10-15T22:32:44 < zyp> no
2020-10-15T22:32:47 < zyp> I mean zwave
2020-10-15T22:33:13 < zyp> thermostat works fine, but I haven't really bothered to set up a zwave mesh for it
2020-10-15T22:33:17 < catphish> looks like zigbee does thermostat anyway
2020-10-15T22:33:54 < zyp> yeah, I might end up going that route at some point to keep everything on the same mesh
2020-10-15T22:34:11 < zyp> not sure what to do about door lock then though
2020-10-15T22:34:35 < zyp> the door lock I've looked at also does zwave
2020-10-15T22:35:25 < catphish> i don't think i need door locks
2020-10-15T22:35:43 < zyp> https://idlock.no/ <- I'm considering getting this one
2020-10-15T22:51:06 < catphish> how do dimmable LED bulbs work?
2020-10-15T22:51:49 < Steffanx> Fine :)
2020-10-15T22:52:20 < catphish> actually i jut googled it and it think the answer isn't "fine"
2020-10-15T22:52:36 < catphish> one has to quite carefully match the electornics of the bulb ad the dimmer
2020-10-15T22:52:54 < Steffanx> oh, i just have dimmable ikea bulbs :P
2020-10-15T22:53:08 < Steffanx> Where the bulb itself does the dimming
2020-10-15T22:53:13 < catphish> oh yeah, if it dims itself its all good :)
2020-10-15T22:53:20 < Steffanx> even colour temp
2020-10-15T22:53:47 < catphish> some do full RGB even :)
2020-10-15T22:54:14 < Steffanx> i dont want to make my room look like the red light district lol
2020-10-15T22:54:56 < catphish> i do :)
2020-10-15T22:57:57 < kakinop> when I first time saw red light district as a young boy
2020-10-15T22:58:20 < kakinop> man.. it wasn't how I expected to feel
2020-10-15T22:58:50 < Steffanx> you had a funny feeling down there, we know it kakinop
2020-10-15T22:59:01 < kakinop> I thought I would have
2020-10-15T22:59:27 < kakinop> but I didn't - I was just super weirded out
2020-10-15T23:07:38 < Steffanx> Must be because you were with your parents
2020-10-15T23:10:23 < catphish> the last time i went to de wallen it just seemed kinda sad
2020-10-15T23:11:16 < Steffanx> The wallen is really just for britis tourists
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2020-10-15T23:12:54 < Steffanx> *british
2020-10-15T23:12:59 < catphish> i dragged my wife there, but it wasn't really as fun as i'd imagined, perhaps we were just off season
2020-10-15T23:14:07 -!- qyx [~qyx@84.245.120.152] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds]
2020-10-15T23:14:31 < Steffanx> did you jump out of a window while heavily drugged?
2020-10-15T23:14:44 < Steffanx> That's what brits do as well im amsterdam
2020-10-15T23:14:51 < catphish> i did not
2020-10-15T23:15:02 < Steffanx> No, you did not. You're still with us
2020-10-15T23:15:05 < Steffanx> they tend to die
2020-10-15T23:15:16 < apathy> if you did, it wouldn't matter. colin said it's not death, just another path.
2020-10-15T23:15:22 -!- qyx_ is now known as qyx
2020-10-15T23:15:29 < Steffanx> colin who?
2020-10-15T23:15:54 < catphish> i tried one of the tourist-cakes, but turns out those have no drugs in, tasty sponge though
2020-10-15T23:15:59 < apathy> colin ritman
2020-10-15T23:16:11 < Steffanx> Black Mirror Ritman
2020-10-15T23:16:12 < Steffanx> ?
2020-10-15T23:16:23 < Steffanx> Then i have no clue who that is
2020-10-15T23:16:43 < apathy> Steffanx: yes colin ritman from bandersnatch
2020-10-15T23:16:55 < apathy> he jumped after explaining the truth about PAC-MAN
2020-10-15T23:17:06 < kakinop> do people really jump out of windows after taking drugs? I don't get it
2020-10-15T23:17:42 < kakinop> sounds more like what liqour does
2020-10-15T23:18:03 -!- Streaker [~Streaker@unaffiliated/streaker] has joined ##stm32
2020-10-15T23:18:39 < apathy> Do you know what "Pac" stands for? P-A-C: program and control. He's Program and Control Man. The whole thing's a metaphor. He thinks he's got free will, but really he's trapped in a maze, in a system. All he can do is consume, he's pursued by demons that are probably just in his own head and even if he does manage to escape by slipping out one side of the maze, what happens? He comes right back in
2020-10-15T23:18:41 < apathy> the other side. People think it's a happy game. It's not a happy game, it's a fucking nightmare world and the worst thing is, it's real and we live in it.
2020-10-15T23:19:04 < apathy> no truer words have been spoken
2020-10-15T23:21:28 < zyp> if I wanted a LTE router with RJ45 port, what should I get?
2020-10-15T23:21:51 < kakinop> home?
2020-10-15T23:21:56 < zyp> portable
2020-10-15T23:22:04 < kakinop> battery powered?
2020-10-15T23:22:05 < apathy> gl-inet mudi "technically" has a rj45
2020-10-15T23:22:07 < zyp> bonus if it includes PoE output
2020-10-15T23:22:36 < apathy> it ships with a weird "power me and i shall provide rj45 jack over usb-c" thing
2020-10-15T23:22:48 < zyp> but I guess that's wishful thinking unless I put a LTE USB dongle into a RB960PGS or some shit
2020-10-15T23:23:01 < kakinop> you can use LTE cards too
2020-10-15T23:23:10 < apathy> i bought the mudi and added sma for external lte antennae
2020-10-15T23:23:22 < apathy> it's pretty good
2020-10-15T23:23:49 < zyp> kakinop, yeah, I'd prefer a solution with minipcie or m.2 over solution with usb dongle
2020-10-15T23:24:09 < Steffanx> lol zyp. Dont go kakimir. Dont add more and more requirements please :P
2020-10-15T23:24:18 -!- jsoft [~jsoft@unaffiliated/jsoft] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds]
2020-10-15T23:24:42 < apathy> i think we were talking about thei weird ass mcu they used for driving the oled in the mudi a while back before i got cancelled
2020-10-15T23:24:58 -!- hornang [~quassel@185.56.185.179] has quit [Quit: No Ping reply in 180 seconds.]
2020-10-15T23:24:59 < Steffanx> You got canncelled?
2020-10-15T23:25:04 < Steffanx> Are you salcedo apathy?
2020-10-15T23:25:10 < apathy> Steffanx: nope. not at all.
2020-10-15T23:25:24 < Steffanx> Then where is this guy.. hm
2020-10-15T23:25:38 < apathy> it's an arm-something. a really weird one i already forgot the manufacturer.
2020-10-15T23:25:44 < karlp> heh, esp32s has usb, no eth,no bt. esp32 has no usb.
2020-10-15T23:25:59 < zyp> thing is, I'm gonna do some field testing tomorrow, I'm gonna need PoE to power some equipment, another switch port for my laptop and something that can hand out IPs
2020-10-15T23:26:25 < apathy> Steffanx: why are you looking for him? he was cancelled
2020-10-15T23:26:38 < zyp> it'd be nice to have something that could do all that in one box, and while I'm at it it'd be nice to have upstream also, which is where LTE comes in convenient
2020-10-15T23:26:45 < Steffanx> im not looking for him was just wondering where he want apathy
2020-10-15T23:27:04 < apathy> oh. yea. k-lined and nickserv deleted a while ago
2020-10-15T23:27:04 < qyx> zyp: a single mikrotik powered off some battery?
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2020-10-15T23:27:21 < qyx> but idk if there are any with 802.3af/at
2020-10-15T23:27:28 < qyx> iirc yes
2020-10-15T23:27:33 < zyp> qyx, I have power
2020-10-15T23:27:49 < apathy> Steffanx: i'm in the US and freenode's speech policy is aligned with UK's speech law.... so it was only a matter of time.
2020-10-15T23:28:37 < zyp> to be fair, I do have a PoE switch, so I could just hook it to a PoE-powered LTE router, that'd also work
2020-10-15T23:29:41 < apathy> that gl-inet mudi (e750) is not too bad i mean... find me everything that does with built-in rj45 and PoE - i don't think it exists in a consumer package with built-in battery.
2020-10-15T23:29:48 < apathy> esp. pocket sized
2020-10-15T23:30:14 < zyp> I didn't say I need battery
2020-10-15T23:30:48 < apathy> there's a company in USA called MoFi i think? they make some stuff that might be closer to what you're looking for
2020-10-15T23:31:03 < zyp> ah, right, the gl-inet thing includes the splitter to get rj45
2020-10-15T23:31:12 < zyp> okay, looks fairly decent
2020-10-15T23:31:49 < apathy> MoFi builds these industrialised lte routers for rural customers
2020-10-15T23:32:04 < zyp> hmm, $200 is kinda more than I wanna spend though
2020-10-15T23:32:32 < apathy> http://mofinetwork.com/
2020-10-15T23:34:11 < apathy> they're a weird company
2020-10-15T23:34:24 < zyp> mikrotik has some cheap lte things, but they only have passive poe in, not 802.3af
2020-10-15T23:34:49 < apathy> mainly sell to rural customers in the USA. usually businesses operating where there is no broadband/fiber
2020-10-15T23:35:59 < apathy> that gl-inet one is worth it. I had been using the gl-mifi before (that one has rj45 but no PoE)
2020-10-15T23:36:18 < zyp> heh, the mikrotik SXT devices have 802.3af, but fuck directional antenna
2020-10-15T23:36:41 < apathy> if you're just looking to perm-install something then use what you already have with some cheap tp-link or we
2020-10-15T23:36:56 < zyp> no, that's the opposite of what I'm looking for
2020-10-15T23:37:25 < zyp> I'm looking for something that'd be convenient to throw in a bag and bring
2020-10-15T23:37:33 < apathy> i bought external ducks and mobile whips for the mudi
2020-10-15T23:37:39 < apathy> because fuck strip antennas
2020-10-15T23:37:51 < apathy> though the ducks are probably just as useless
2020-10-15T23:37:54 < apathy> the whips are insane
2020-10-15T23:38:07 < apathy> i figured there would be so much loss in the coax that it wouldn't make a diff
2020-10-15T23:38:10 < zyp> the mudi looks decent for the LTE part, I just don't want to deal with powering it separately from everything else
2020-10-15T23:38:42 < apathy> then put PoE in it
2020-10-15T23:39:08 < zyp> how do you propose?
2020-10-15T23:39:23 < apathy> there's a little space in there for some ricing
2020-10-15T23:39:34 < apathy> enough that i was able to put two sma pigtails
2020-10-15T23:39:46 < apathy> removing the internal battery and you have tons of space
2020-10-15T23:40:03 < zyp> sounds like too much hassle
2020-10-15T23:40:17 < apathy> these gl-inet are made for this stuff
2020-10-15T23:41:17 < apathy> the mudi not so much but the mifi (their previous version lte router thing) already had cutouts in the case for adding sma, as well as a gpio header inside for whatever you need to upgrade with.
2020-10-15T23:41:30 < apathy> i think they even shipped zigbee and bluetooth modules you could add
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2020-10-15T23:50:58 < zyp> hey, this thing almost does everything I'd like: https://www.4gon.co.uk/documents/Pepwave_FlexAP_Datasheet.pdf
2020-10-15T23:51:17 < zyp> no gigabit ethernet though, fuck cheaping out on that
2020-10-15T23:52:37 < Steffanx> Isnt pepwave the more expensive stuff?
2020-10-15T23:52:47 < zyp> idk, didn't look at price
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2020-10-15T23:53:05 < Steffanx> Lol
2020-10-15T23:53:07 < zyp> oh, right
2020-10-15T23:53:16 < zyp> yeah, costs 10x what I'd pay for something like that
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2020-10-15T23:56:43 < qyx> haha
2020-10-15T23:56:58 < qyx> how much would you pay?
2020-10-15T23:57:27 < zyp> idk, not more than a couple hundred
--- Day changed Fri Oct 16 2020
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2020-10-16T00:04:19 < zyp> oh, gl-inet has a bunch of stuff that looks interesting
2020-10-16T00:04:24 < zyp> e.g. this: https://www.gl-inet.com/products/gl-x1200/
2020-10-16T00:06:13 < karlp> gl inet are good people too
2020-10-16T00:06:28 < karlp> normally designed to be opened, has pins labelled for extensions, submit stuff upstream, ships with openwrt
2020-10-16T00:06:51 < karlp> well, for some of their stuff at least.
2020-10-16T00:07:19  * qyx taking notes
2020-10-16T00:11:25 < Steffanx> Zypsnip time?
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2020-10-16T00:13:29 < zyp> that thing looks pretty great and $400 is not too bad but kinda hard to justify
2020-10-16T00:14:18 < zyp> would have been handy to have tomorrow, but not sure when I'd need it next time
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2020-10-16T00:16:38 < Steffanx> I have a laptop will LTE connection. Better get that.
2020-10-16T00:16:52 < Steffanx> Lol.
2020-10-16T00:17:07 < zyp> meh
2020-10-16T00:17:14 < qyx> yous till have a couple of hours
2020-10-16T00:17:38 < Steffanx> I "need" something with a touch screen, so got this dell laptop. It happened to have this modem
2020-10-16T00:17:47 < Steffanx> "Needed"*
2020-10-16T00:18:59 < Steffanx> Got it 2nd hand, in the original box (still in plastic) for damn cheap. I dont even want to know where it came from
2020-10-16T00:19:38 < Steffanx> The ups box around it said febr 2020, I bought it begin march. Shady business...
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2020-10-16T01:00:21 < qyx> any of you ever did DoC and CE?
2020-10-16T01:00:48 < qyx> hm, the LVD directive is from 75 to 1000Vdc
2020-10-16T01:00:58 < qyx> so it seems only EMC applies for low voltage stuff
2020-10-16T01:01:16 < qyx> Jak_o_Shadows: ^
2020-10-16T01:01:18 < qyx> no
2020-10-16T01:01:19 < qyx> jadew: ^
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2020-10-16T01:30:04 < qyx> whoa the thing works https://i.imgur.com/jbK63ur.png
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2020-10-16T01:35:15 < englishman> I'm zapping a new product for CE tomorrow
2020-10-16T01:35:17 < englishman> thing is
2020-10-16T01:35:30 < englishman> it's already terrible and unfinished garbage
2020-10-16T01:35:34 < englishman> so if it breaks
2020-10-16T01:35:39 < englishman> is it an improvement?
2020-10-16T01:36:14 < englishman> criteria A: it stopped measuring, but the measurement was incorrect anyway. PASS
2020-10-16T01:38:24 < mawk> lol
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2020-10-16T01:38:39 < mawk> CE = China Export right?
2020-10-16T01:39:31 < englishman> no this is actually pretty slick shit, on paper
2020-10-16T01:40:12 < englishman> 2-part machined and anodized alu case, $275
2020-10-16T01:40:28 < englishman> 10" touchscreen, $140
2020-10-16T01:41:20 < englishman> 150% measurement drift as the lunix processor heats up, priceless
2020-10-16T01:42:08 < qyx> lulz
2020-10-16T01:42:58 < mawk> what are you measuring
2020-10-16T01:42:59 < qyx> no, CE is for selling inside of EU
2020-10-16T01:43:40 < mawk> qyx: https://www.francenetinfos.com/wp-content/uploads/2017/01/contrefacon-de-sigle.jpg
2020-10-16T01:44:17 < Steffanx> Lol. This reminds me of a camera project. All fancy and nice, super nice fast zynq. All was nice during prototyping
2020-10-16T01:44:24 < englishman> tbh can't really say what I'm measuring without dox as there are only like 3 companies that do this. it's a niche test and measurement company
2020-10-16T01:44:37 < Steffanx> And then they put it in the enclosure: oooh shit it gets to warm
2020-10-16T01:44:51 < Steffanx> Now it will affect the sensor and it'll be useless
2020-10-16T01:44:54 < englishman> heh
2020-10-16T01:45:11 < mawk> you can say it englishman don't worry we won't tell
2020-10-16T01:45:12 < qyx> mawk: :D
2020-10-16T01:45:18 < mawk> besides we already doxxed you
2020-10-16T01:45:53 < Steffanx> englishman: lol I cannot say it either, because probably the same
2020-10-16T01:46:22 < qyx> lol I cannot too because the same!
2020-10-16T01:47:05 < mawk> you all know my company
2020-10-16T01:47:06 < qyx> at least it is not covid dependent
2020-10-16T01:47:07 < mawk> so time for you to tell
2020-10-16T01:47:11 < mawk> go on I'm listening
2020-10-16T01:47:14 < mawk> you first Steffanx 
2020-10-16T01:47:22 < Steffanx> This was a client.
2020-10-16T01:47:32 < Steffanx> No wont happen. Check my linked in page
2020-10-16T01:47:45 < mawk> mister Steffan X from groningue
2020-10-16T01:47:51 < mawk> that's this one?
2020-10-16T01:48:05 < Steffanx> Obviously 
2020-10-16T01:49:17 < qyx> aren't you doing CCD spectrometry?
2020-10-16T01:49:33 < qyx> (you are saying camera, zynq and niche)
2020-10-16T01:49:40 < mawk> because X ray in steffan X?
2020-10-16T01:49:42 < mawk> ah
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2020-10-16T02:32:52 < karlp> qyx CE decls are not so bad, very dependent on what you think your company's model is too.
2020-10-16T02:33:06 < karlp> and what you think your customers actually want
2020-10-16T02:33:59 < karlp> better than fuking ul bullshit
2020-10-16T02:34:12 < karlp> "manual needs to have this exact wording"
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2020-10-16T04:14:10 < bitmask> ooooops ;) ordered another 10tb drive
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2020-10-16T05:16:19 < qyx> https://www.tme.eu/sk/details/87878122462/zastrcky-a-zasuvky-m12/harting/
2020-10-16T05:16:20 < qyx> such pro tool
2020-10-16T05:16:26 < qyx> 3836.37 EUR
2020-10-16T05:16:43 < qyx> oh it includes 100 connectors
2020-10-16T05:16:52 < qyx> but still wtf
2020-10-16T05:17:51 < qyx> the tool alone is 457 eur only
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2020-10-16T10:18:27 < Steffanx> moneyed westener bitmask...
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2020-10-16T12:04:50 < benishor> hi guys, I need some suggestions for some small panel mounted 4 pin connectors 
2020-10-16T12:05:18 < benishor> I need to connect limit switches to the cnc electronic box
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2020-10-16T12:12:34 < Cracki> one of the good old jst?
2020-10-16T12:12:52 < Cracki> wait, panel mounted...
2020-10-16T12:13:57 < Cracki> inside of test equipment I've seen IDC sockets with latches where the panel mounted side is a fixed assembly with "pigtail" that goes on a PCB where the latched IDC socket sitz
2020-10-16T12:16:29 < karlp> qyx: is that harting link for this stuff? https://www.harting.com/US/en/solutions/m8-d-code-ethernet-connector
2020-10-16T12:41:54 < benishor> Cracki: thanks for the suggestion, it might be an option. I'll just have to think about it
2020-10-16T12:42:38 < Cracki> I'm sure someone here has even better ideas
2020-10-16T12:43:12 < Cracki> depending in what you're up to. panel mounted connector... some people used d-sub for that
2020-10-16T12:43:41 < Cracki> maybe those M5/M8/M12 things
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2020-10-16T13:18:06 < leibniz[m]> anyone using make files here? I'm using clangd as LSP. It somehow can't detect arm flags: "-mcpu=cortex-m3", "-mfix-cortex-m3-ldrd" throwing this error: Unknown argument: '-mfix-cortex-m3-ldrd' [clang: drv_unknown_argument] . any ideas?
2020-10-16T13:18:46 < leibniz[m]> I've generated the compile_commands for my project with bear (beacuse I'm using make not cmake)
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2020-10-16T13:32:19 < karlp> don't use clang unless you know how to figure out gcc args->clang conversions?
2020-10-16T13:32:59 < karlp> I wonder if they'll finally make the ldrd fix default for cpu=m3, instead of requiring it to be added all the time.
2020-10-16T13:33:35 < karlp> (no-noe knows what youre' talking about with "compile_commands" or bear)
2020-10-16T13:36:05 < leibniz[m]> karlp: clang needs a compile_commands.json to index project files. Cmake has a flag to generate it. bear is an external a tool to generate it also. 
2020-10-16T13:36:34 < qyx> I would say nobody here uses clang with those tools
2020-10-16T13:37:42 < qyx> karlp: presumably, I was searching for some M12 D-coded stuff and this piece of awesomeness appeared
2020-10-16T13:38:08 < leibniz[m]> How do you lint/auto-complete your embedded codes if you go to vim/make/gcc route?
2020-10-16T13:42:00 < emeryth> leibniz[m]: coc.nvim
2020-10-16T13:43:13 < leibniz[m]> emeryth: that's what I'm using + coc-clangd. 
2020-10-16T13:43:36 < leibniz[m]> oh, you just use the buffer text as sources for auto-completion?
2020-10-16T13:46:49 < emeryth> I use ccls server instead of coc-clangd
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2020-10-16T14:09:49 < qyx> benishor: molex minifit/microfit has panel mount option too, also cheap
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2020-10-16T14:11:46 < qyx> https://www.molex.com/molex/products/part-detail/crimp_housings/0430200400
2020-10-16T14:12:17 < karlp> has china clones too.
2020-10-16T14:13:57 < benishor> 10x qyx
2020-10-16T14:14:20 < Mangy_Dog> i used microfits on my corexy build
2020-10-16T14:14:21 < benishor> I'm a bit puzzled by how that gets mounted on the panel though
2020-10-16T14:14:26 < karlp> 3.5m euroblock (phoenix mc) or similar
2020-10-16T14:14:43 < karlp> depends how you expect the user to connect their wires...
2020-10-16T14:15:00 < karlp> are you providign crimped leads at the other end, or do you want them to be able to screw in their own?
2020-10-16T14:15:40 < benishor> I expect the user to come with the male connector wired up
2020-10-16T14:15:45 < benishor> and simply plug in
2020-10-16T14:16:14 < karlp> no need for euroblock then :)
2020-10-16T14:16:34 < karlp> qyx's part is good, has china clones.
2020-10-16T14:17:20 < karlp> phoenix DMC looks nice in theory, but i've never done more than include it in a 3d model...
2020-10-16T14:18:01 < karlp> that's also just phoenix MC comapt, just with crimped wire side instead of pluggable screw terminals
2020-10-16T14:18:30 < karlp> microfit is just that one option
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2020-10-16T14:48:58 < BrainDamage> https://ibin.co/5e1zR7x1kizk.jpg ( not mine )
2020-10-16T14:49:19 < zyp> haha, nice
2020-10-16T14:49:55  * karlp lols
2020-10-16T15:08:44 < Steffanx> How can a device that still has a floppy drive be infected?
2020-10-16T15:09:26 < Steffanx> I dont even remember if my xp machine had one.
2020-10-16T15:09:39 < Steffanx> Such long time ago. Nowadays i dont even have a CD/DVD drive anymore
2020-10-16T15:11:53 < Streaker> Its probably a photoshop. There's plenty of images on google images with that exact same time  02:23:58:28
2020-10-16T15:12:36 < karlp> oh, boring.
2020-10-16T15:12:42 < qyx> oh no lol
2020-10-16T15:13:37 < karlp> also, is there anythin on those machines that wouldn't be just "factory restore" ?
2020-10-16T15:13:48 < karlp> or doe they not have a restore option without getting the vendor involved?
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2020-10-16T15:18:06 < qyx> https://bin.jvnv.net/file/5ZR47/owon.jpg
2020-10-16T15:18:11 < qyx> I got win98 too
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2020-10-16T15:21:42 < thement> how did it get there? are they connected to network?
2020-10-16T15:23:47 < karlp> thement: read streaker's comment
2020-10-16T15:24:37 < Steffanx> Nice blue qyx
2020-10-16T15:24:44 < Steffanx> *fancy blue
2020-10-16T15:27:35 < englishman> ahaha qyx
2020-10-16T15:27:57 < englishman> is that your owon
2020-10-16T15:28:05 < englishman> the knobs on mine are all fucked
2020-10-16T15:28:21 < qyx> same problem here
2020-10-16T15:28:26 < qyx> it is quite old though
2020-10-16T15:28:35 < englishman> it felt old when it was new
2020-10-16T15:29:05 < englishman> I just keep it around because a battery powered scope is quite handy like once a year
2020-10-16T15:42:30 < thement> karlp: oh, my mistake
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2020-10-16T16:04:11 < Laurenceb> lolll my mum got cancelled on faceberg
2020-10-16T16:04:23 < Laurenceb> >spoke to extinction rebellion
2020-10-16T16:04:33 < apathy> oh yea that's a big no-no
2020-10-16T16:04:36 < Laurenceb> >used the word "blacklisted"
2020-10-16T16:04:39 < apathy> ur mum is a climate denier
2020-10-16T16:04:44 < Laurenceb> lolno
2020-10-16T16:04:50 < Laurenceb> she supports them
2020-10-16T16:05:00 < apathy> then you lie
2020-10-16T16:05:09 < apathy> nobody gets cancelled for supporting agenda 2030
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2020-10-16T16:05:27 < Laurenceb> she said "blacklisted"
2020-10-16T16:06:13 < Laurenceb> now they are banning and harassing her
2020-10-16T16:06:27 < Laurenceb> they have some extra lulzy stuff on their pages
2020-10-16T16:07:13 < Laurenceb> >9th harmonic of the Schumann resonance: awakens the tribal soul
2020-10-16T16:07:25 < Laurenceb> >7th harmonic: opens the third eye
2020-10-16T16:08:21 < Laurenceb> its funny until you realise they are unironic
2020-10-16T16:09:05 < apathy> so how are you gonna get tendies now that your mum is cancelled?
2020-10-16T16:13:25 < Cracki> lol
2020-10-16T16:14:06 < Cracki> hast thou proof that XR is canceling people for saying "BLACKlisted"
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2020-10-16T16:18:50 < apathy> Cracki: lets make some secret squirrel communicator keys for the XR people. order everything from LCSC.
2020-10-16T16:19:06 < Cracki> the squirrels own everything
2020-10-16T16:19:40 < apathy> they need more china in their lives
2020-10-16T16:19:48 < mawk> I want a tribal soul awakening too Laurenceb 
2020-10-16T16:19:53 < mawk> why are you keeping it to yourself
2020-10-16T16:19:58 < apathy> yeah!
2020-10-16T16:20:09 < Laurenceb> you need to absorb the resonance
2020-10-16T16:20:26 < apathy> i want 9th harmonic cancel culture soul vibrations
2020-10-16T16:20:35 < Cracki> euphemism mill. it used to be that greenPEACE meant blowing up oil rigs. now greenpeace is bourgeois so they have to come up with "extinction" rebellion, but they're actually celebrating the extinction of us.
2020-10-16T16:20:58 < Laurenceb> keeekk wtf now they are linking David Icke on bitchute
2020-10-16T16:21:03 < Cracki> hoo
2020-10-16T16:21:14 < apathy> up is down and down is up
2020-10-16T16:21:16 < Cracki> soccer player??
2020-10-16T16:21:22 < Laurenceb> yes
2020-10-16T16:21:30 < Cracki> *blink*
2020-10-16T16:21:38 < apathy> here in the USA, the far left became anti-vaxxers too. it's hilarious
2020-10-16T16:21:41 < Cracki> ah, google shows me some of his nutty stuff
2020-10-16T16:21:52 < Laurenceb> lizard illuminati
2020-10-16T16:21:53 < Cracki> why are the far left anti vaccine?
2020-10-16T16:21:58 < Cracki> because vaccines are nazi?
2020-10-16T16:22:07 < Laurenceb> ebil cpitalism
2020-10-16T16:22:09 < apathy> Cracki: because trump
2020-10-16T16:22:23 < apathy> it's "trump's vaccine" so they're not gonna take it
2020-10-16T16:22:29 < Cracki> trump loves air and water, let's stop breathing and drinking
2020-10-16T16:22:46 < Cracki> these people are so full of fuck
2020-10-16T16:23:12 < Cracki> I use the word "people" as a slur
2020-10-16T16:23:48 < Cracki> lol wat https://twitter.com/davidicke/status/1317088480825147394
2020-10-16T16:24:47 < Laurenceb> wordsalad
2020-10-16T16:24:51 < Cracki> ye
2020-10-16T16:25:02 < Cracki> we don't have self-replication on that level yet
2020-10-16T16:26:06 < Cracki> oh btw, anyone here a movie director or sth: evil machines don't forge themselves from glowing steel, they use CNC mills and whatnot
2020-10-16T16:26:34 < apathy> see. i don't think David Icke fully understands how AI works.
2020-10-16T16:26:43 < Cracki> scrap the "sinister" medieval hightech. get shots from spacex/tesla factory floor.
2020-10-16T16:26:48 < Cracki> obv
2020-10-16T16:27:24 < apathy> the AI systems for neo-eugenics are already in place and the algorithms are running now.
2020-10-16T16:27:40 < apathy> look at what they've already done to society
2020-10-16T16:28:01 < Cracki> their concept of AI _will_ come true. what we call AI today is rudimentary. and it can't learn as part of its normal operation.
2020-10-16T16:28:14 < apathy> Laurenceb's mum cancelled for saying "blacklisted"
2020-10-16T16:28:25 < Cracki> blacklisted from a terrorist group
2020-10-16T16:28:31 < Cracki> so.. good for her?
2020-10-16T16:28:42 < apathy> this is because those algorithms created the hive mentality of her cancellers
2020-10-16T16:28:43 < Cracki> purity spiraling isn't AI
2020-10-16T16:28:50 < apathy> now Laurenceb is going to go without tendies and starve to death. see? eugenics.
2020-10-16T16:28:57 < Cracki> har
2020-10-16T16:29:19 < Cracki> btw, we have an audience rn
2020-10-16T16:29:30 < apathy> gdi Cracki this is the main chan.
2020-10-16T16:29:35 < Cracki> :D
2020-10-16T16:30:01 < Cracki> gotta slow boil these normies
2020-10-16T16:30:36 < apathy> nah bruh they're already gone. let them receive their implants and drown
2020-10-16T16:32:26 < Cracki> I just wish those nutjobs wouldn't give their videos/articles nutjob titles, but build up to the insanity slowly
2020-10-16T16:34:21 < apathy> well. the antivaxxer conspiracy got instant traction among them thanks to trump.
2020-10-16T16:34:23 < apathy> so basically...
2020-10-16T16:34:57 < apathy> just title whatever nutjob tinfoil shit you want them to believe with "Trump said" or "Trump is going to"
2020-10-16T16:35:05 < Cracki> I wonder who'll be elected in 2024. Tucker Carlson maybe?
2020-10-16T16:35:20 < apathy> "Trump pushing for round earth if re-elected." BOOM! Now they're all flat earthers.
2020-10-16T16:35:51 < apathy> there won't be an election in 2024
2020-10-16T16:35:53 < Cracki> or maybe the antifa "security guard" for 9news that point blank murdered a dude
2020-10-16T16:36:08 < Cracki> no there will
2020-10-16T16:36:24 < Cracki> 2020 trump will win. 2024 whatever blue wave demon will win, and from then on no more elections
2020-10-16T16:36:32 < Cracki> oh well elections but one choice
2020-10-16T16:36:41 < apathy> in a few months, the USA will shift gears into what people are calling a "Post-Constitutional Monarchy" run by Queen Kamala.
2020-10-16T16:36:56 < Cracki> biden is running for congress, he's not running for prez
2020-10-16T16:37:23 < Cracki> fuck I don't think murica is ready for a qween
2020-10-16T16:37:36 < apathy> we are. antifa demands it.
2020-10-16T16:37:41 < karlp> stahp
2020-10-16T16:37:59 < apathy> mission accomplished! Good morning karlp
2020-10-16T16:38:07 < Cracki> oh no
2020-10-16T16:38:32 < Cracki> gagantua is sleeping tho
2020-10-16T16:39:16 < Laurenceb> Muh Soros
2020-10-16T16:39:26 < Laurenceb> apathy confirmed as slow
2020-10-16T16:39:44 < Laurenceb> >one man organises all things
2020-10-16T16:40:19 < Cracki> it's an ant colony. ant colonies aren't conspiracies.
2020-10-16T16:40:43 < Cracki> every ant according to its programming
2020-10-16T16:40:48 < karlp> this is neat: https://www.eenewsanalog.com/news/magnetic-particles-be-temperature-sensors
2020-10-16T16:45:31 < Laurenceb> https://metro.co.uk/2020/10/15/shoppers-stunned-after-f-the-pope-blares-out-over-tesco-tannoy-13428430/
2020-10-16T16:48:51 < Cracki> "the tannoy", tannoy being a maker of loudspeakers
2020-10-16T16:49:01 < Cracki> you bongs need to get off your island more often
2020-10-16T16:50:13 < Cracki> "hate incident". srsly. just clobber the lad for disturbing the peace or something
2020-10-16T16:50:45 < Cracki> >The customer added he wanted Tesco to implement measures to prevent this from happening again.
2020-10-16T16:51:16 < Cracki> do those in-house phone systems not need an access card or pin?
2020-10-16T16:51:58 < qyx> are you kidding
2020-10-16T16:52:08 < Cracki> high trust society
2020-10-16T16:52:10 < Cracki> not anymore
2020-10-16T16:53:17 < Cracki> the "male youth" is getting a stern talking to for his mischief, meanwhile everyone freaks the fuck out over the obvious trust-based way things work
2020-10-16T16:54:04 < Cracki> they need to chill, and then deal with the fact that they turned their society into enemy territory
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2020-10-16T18:25:06 < GenTooMan> karlp their was also an article on using quantum dots to do something similar but required more elaborate (IE expensive) equipment, it used the fact that the dot size changed the spectra of emission. So they used the frequency shift to measure temperature over a surface with (some) degree of accuracy.
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2020-10-16T19:05:59 < Cracki> anyone got a cat handy, and some cucumber? place a dish of cucumber peel behind cat, does it sproing? if not, repeat with sliced up (unpeeled) cucumber. people theorize that it's not the greenness or tube shape that does it, but that something unexpectedly appears near the cat
2020-10-16T19:07:49 < dima> Cracki: I tried that a while ago, it had no effect on my cat at all.
2020-10-16T19:08:00 < Cracki> :D
2020-10-16T19:08:41 < Cracki> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XYtLtWiJmn4
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2020-10-16T19:32:02 < mawk> your cocitizen Steffanx https://youtu.be/2-Jht2kpaP0
2020-10-16T19:32:07 < mawk> mister paul elstak
2020-10-16T19:33:12 < Steffanx> i liked his older music more. -> 90s
2020-10-16T19:33:36 < Steffanx> What you posted is just awful
2020-10-16T19:35:14 < mawk> lol
2020-10-16T19:35:41 < mawk> it has nice kick distortion though
2020-10-16T19:35:47 < mawk> more distorsion the better right
2020-10-16T19:35:59 < mawk> "bam bam bam" = boring
2020-10-16T19:36:13 < mawk> "schrzkchzk schrzkchzk schrzkchzk" = awesome
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2020-10-16T19:39:45 < Steffanx> no
2020-10-16T19:40:03 < mawk> why
2020-10-16T19:40:23 < mawk> I like distorsion, tempo breaks, bpm variations
2020-10-16T19:40:28 < mawk> that's what is cool in music
2020-10-16T19:40:40 < Steffanx> ok
2020-10-16T19:40:49 < mawk> what is not cool is cheesy lyrics, melodies like they expect me to be a clubber on ecstasy, etc
2020-10-16T19:41:24 < Steffanx> You're wrong. Maybe not about the lyrics, but .. you're wrong
2020-10-16T19:41:28 < mawk> lol
2020-10-16T19:41:29 < mawk> why
2020-10-16T19:41:38 < mawk> music needs to be fast, also
2020-10-16T19:47:54 < Steffanx> just and "imho"  and ill be fine :P
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2020-10-16T19:52:49 < Cracki> press > to music harder
2020-10-16T19:57:15 < BrainDamage> https://invidious.snopyta.org/watch?v=QxIWDmmqZzY&t=6m
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2020-10-16T20:09:21 < Steffanx> one thing i know for sure BrainDamage. That website doesnt make it all faster -_-
2020-10-16T20:09:36 < Steffanx> Took ages to load the video
2020-10-16T20:10:03 < BrainDamage> ah, default setting might be in proxy mode
2020-10-16T20:10:28 < BrainDamage> i have set it so it loads the video directly from the youtube servers, but uses the light interface
2020-10-16T20:10:56 < Steffanx> yes it seems to be
2020-10-16T20:13:07 < BrainDamage> I'll give direct links to youtube then
2020-10-16T20:13:51 < Steffanx> i just disabled it wonder how long it wil lremember that
2020-10-16T20:14:18 < BrainDamage> if you're not blocking cookies, forever
2020-10-16T20:17:40 < Cracki> replace https?://.*(/watch?v=[^&]+) with youtube.com\1
2020-10-16T20:18:05 < Cracki> because no other site would ever use /watch?v=something if it isn't a youtube "proxy"
2020-10-16T20:18:21 < apathy> and then youtube\.com with invidious.site
2020-10-16T20:18:58 < Cracki> snopyta.org looked like cancer to me. shit player.
2020-10-16T20:19:17 < Cracki> doesn't even remember volume
2020-10-16T20:19:24 < Cracki> just blows my fucking ears off
2020-10-16T20:19:40 < apathy> better than getting your ears literally blown off by UN troops
2020-10-16T20:20:06 < apathy> after they used data collected by youtube to locate you
2020-10-16T20:21:16 < Cracki> I want many deaths to weigh on their consciences
2020-10-16T20:21:40 < Cracki> I want them to require lifelong (may it be short!) counseling for the grief
2020-10-16T20:25:55 < apathy> they have no emotions. they are algorithms.
2020-10-16T20:26:14 < apathy> the illuminati is google deep dream
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2020-10-16T20:29:13 < Cracki> careful. the automatons don't like it when you call them inhuman. :D
2020-10-16T20:29:49 < Cracki> dehumanization is okay when it's their enemies, but not when it's they themselves
2020-10-16T20:30:01 < apathy> that doesn't make logical sense. they're already inhuman automatons. why would they have feelings?
2020-10-16T20:31:06 < Cracki> when the inhumans are "dehumanized", they act angry and lock you up for what you say
2020-10-16T20:32:05 < apathy> that is only a temporary programmed reaction until the agenda is complete. then the code can be updated.
2020-10-16T20:32:23 < Cracki> updated from "lock them up" to "exterminate"
2020-10-16T20:32:28 < apathy> correct
2020-10-16T20:32:31 < Cracki> I don't like either done to me
2020-10-16T20:33:21 < Cracki> but since the outcome is me dead in every case, I can just do whatever the fuck I want
2020-10-16T20:33:47 < apathy> i too operate on the same premise.
2020-10-16T20:34:21 < apathy> so long as my actions do not cause harm to my fellow humans, i care not if my words trigger the inhumans.
2020-10-16T20:34:46 < Cracki> they _say_ we shouldn't let terrorism affect how we live our lives... but they are too dumb to realize that THEY are the terrorists
2020-10-16T20:36:22 < Cracki> they shout "eat the rich!" but never do because the rich wrote their programming
2020-10-16T20:36:30 < apathy> https://invidious.site/watch?v=-qdvm6h8WKg
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2020-10-16T20:39:07 < Cracki> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Public_image_of_George_W._Bush#Bush_Derangement_Syndrome_neologism
2020-10-16T20:40:58 < Cracki> lol https://www.nationalreview.com/2018/05/george-w-bush-image-rehabilitation-media-strategy-to-disparage-trump/
2020-10-16T20:41:13 < Cracki> people believe what they're told to believe
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2020-10-16T20:42:59 < Cracki> I truly want to live in a world where whatever succeeds trump will make the libs wish for trump to return
2020-10-16T20:44:42 < Cracki> big league
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2020-10-16T20:45:14 < Steffanx> So... Blaxter for president?
2020-10-16T20:45:19 < Cracki> kek
2020-10-16T20:45:41 < apathy> that would be acceptable. I was going to vote for Dwayne Elizando Mt. Dew Herbert Camacho, but Blaxter will do.
2020-10-16T20:45:41 < Cracki> they'd have to chase him out of bongland, that'd make him a legit syrian refugee
2020-10-16T20:46:00 < Steffanx> hi salcedo, how are you?
2020-10-16T20:46:20 < Cracki> nomen est omen
2020-10-16T20:46:21 < apathy> i'm great. aside from being sued for medical debt during a fucking pandemic
2020-10-16T20:47:32 < Steffanx> Dont get sick mate
2020-10-16T20:47:39 < apathy> i'm not even sure i'd make bill gates suck my dick because he'd probably have a robotic quantum dot tattoo applicator built-in to his mouth
2020-10-16T20:49:52 < apathy> the cdc seems to have removed all their raw data and replaced it with charts that tell us nothing
2020-10-16T20:50:45 < apathy> i was trying to find out if all these claims about cdc releasing new fatility rates showing covid-19 is less deadly than seasonal flu are factual
2020-10-16T20:51:04 < Cracki> always download everything. hoard hard disks.
2020-10-16T20:52:01 < Cracki> truth is probably that seasonal flu is on the same order of magnitude, but usually nobody has an incentive to label all possible deaths "seasonal flu" related, whereas with the rona, they DO have that incentive to label everyone dying with it as "from it"
2020-10-16T20:52:11 < apathy> so get this
2020-10-16T20:52:14 < Cracki> best you can do is look at raw mortality numbers
2020-10-16T20:52:32 < Cracki> and look at averages over decades, and get the blips that are winter flu and summer heat strokes
2020-10-16T20:52:38 < apathy> some local news stations back in september had been reporting the CDC's new mortality rates
2020-10-16T20:52:48 < apathy> and they got their social media accounts banned lol
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2020-10-16T20:53:08 < Cracki> but since heat strokes and winter flus are normal, you'll see bumps there anyway, and the rona is just a late winter flu (since spring hardly anyone died of it)
2020-10-16T20:53:19 < Cracki> lolwat
2020-10-16T20:53:31 < Cracki> now it's verboten to report what the government says?
2020-10-16T20:53:50 < Cracki> they must be lying out of their asses
2020-10-16T20:54:08 < Cracki> I know of only one other group that's forbidden to quote
2020-10-16T20:54:26 < apathy> well yeah. if what the government says doesn't align with bigtech's democracy-tampering narrative or causes people to realise that the lockdowns were unjustified, repeating it is verboten.
2020-10-16T20:54:52 < Cracki> twadder even suppressed the Biden email leaks
2020-10-16T20:54:58 < apathy> yep
2020-10-16T20:55:02 < Cracki> not the leaks themselves, but news reports on them
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2020-10-16T20:55:15 < apathy> that shit was shut down like DA GOYIM KNOW. they suspended our white house press secretary's account.
2020-10-16T20:55:16 < Cracki> like wtf you are not allowed to read the news!
2020-10-16T20:55:39 < Cracki> twadder should just buy the newspapers they don't like, and make them report what they want
2020-10-16T20:55:45 < apathy> bro...
2020-10-16T20:55:47 < Cracki> can't be many
2020-10-16T20:55:53 < Cracki> the rest is already in line
2020-10-16T20:56:05 < apathy> jeff bezos owns the washington post. bloomberg owns... bloomberg... bill gates owns msnbc...
2020-10-16T20:56:23 < Cracki> an Elon Musk quote comes to mind
2020-10-16T20:56:32 < Cracki> he was mobbed for saying it
2020-10-16T20:56:39 < apathy> all of the tech billionaires own the media silly. it's always been that way since before the internet.
2020-10-16T20:57:03 < apathy> just because we use bits instead of printing press doesn't mean anything is different now
2020-10-16T20:57:40 < Cracki> oh great I just saw a picture of the severed head from that terror attack in france today
2020-10-16T20:58:25 < Cracki> >for showing pupils cartoons of the Prophet in class
2020-10-16T20:58:55 < Cracki> some bored high school kid oughta break into all the networked school printers and print wrongthink
2020-10-16T21:01:06 < Cracki> srsly it's fucked that _that_ is the limit of acceptable opinion in relation to continued terrorist attacks, and not calling for a resposne that would end this shit properly
2020-10-16T21:02:46 < mawk> terrorist posted the head on twitter
2020-10-16T21:02:50 < mawk> he's from chechnya
2020-10-16T21:03:05 < Cracki> ah, then I see a screenshot of his twadder post
2020-10-16T21:03:12 < mawk> and the guy was a teacher that showed the caricatures of muhammad to students
2020-10-16T21:03:23 < mawk> the teacher was thinking ahead, before doing it he said "all muslims, get out"
2020-10-16T21:03:30 < mawk> but the muslims still got word of it
2020-10-16T21:03:32 < Cracki> lol
2020-10-16T21:03:57 < Cracki> if an infidel hacked one of their heads off, they'd respond with a bloodbath
2020-10-16T21:04:04 < Cracki> asymmetric
2020-10-16T21:04:18 < mawk> now frankistan twitter is full of "cheik muhammad al-faransi" handles that celebrate the killing
2020-10-16T21:04:23 < mawk> say it's deserved because islamophobia
2020-10-16T21:04:30 < Cracki> we're so civilized we can't even defend ourselves
2020-10-16T21:05:06 < Cracki> they deserve the islamophobia they're crying about
2020-10-16T21:05:17 < mawk> police shot the guy
2020-10-16T21:05:19 < Cracki> shit like that causes islamophobia
2020-10-16T21:05:34 < mawk> I guess it's better that way, otherwise a leftist red judge would have him get out in 10 years
2020-10-16T21:05:41 < Cracki> 1
2020-10-16T21:05:42 < mawk> and he would have done it again
2020-10-16T21:06:10 < Cracki> be real, they would never have given him 10 years or more for that
2020-10-16T21:06:25 < mawk> maximum sentence anyway is 35 years, and it's never given
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2020-10-16T21:06:27 < Cracki> they'd have said "mental illness"
2020-10-16T21:06:34 < mawk> every sentence below 2 years, they're never enforced
2020-10-16T21:06:39 < mawk> yeah
2020-10-16T21:06:58 < mawk> the fact they have to invoke psychiatry to explain away islam is very telling lol
2020-10-16T21:07:04 < mawk> it's a degenerate reigion
2020-10-16T21:07:45 < mawk> like every other religion, but let's first focus on the ones whose fidels are blood thirsty, then we'll see for the rest
2020-10-16T21:07:46 < Cracki> they've already hidden his twadder account from the interested public
2020-10-16T21:07:50 < mawk> yeah
2020-10-16T21:08:17 < Cracki> instead of rehabilitating them, we should turn bloodthirsty
2020-10-16T21:08:29 < Cracki> it's not gonna happen ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
2020-10-16T21:09:05 < Cracki> kek french using the word "attentat". that's actually german.
2020-10-16T21:09:18 < Cracki> (as far as I know)
2020-10-16T21:09:30 < mawk> at least this time they say attentat, sometimes they just say attack
2020-10-16T21:09:40 < mawk> attentat implies terrorism, attack could be anything
2020-10-16T21:10:16 < apathy> i thought europe fixed the terrorist problem by letting the terrorists come live for free and breed you all out?
2020-10-16T21:10:22 < Cracki> in germany they'd brush this under the rug because perp and victim knew each other (reasonable to assume of a parent and teacher)
2020-10-16T21:10:24 < apathy> why are you still having attacks?
2020-10-16T21:10:45 < Cracki> because the natives still draw their prophet
2020-10-16T21:10:59 < Cracki> there will be attacks until it's 100% diversity
2020-10-16T21:11:07 < Cracki> 100% diversity prevents attacks
2020-10-16T21:11:11 < apathy> 100% kalergi
2020-10-16T21:17:05 < Ultrasauce> ok time to move on
2020-10-16T21:21:18 < catphish> zyp: this is what i was contemplating building if i have the ability, to enable smart control of a traditional lighting system: https://i.imgur.com/StvKFrH.jpg
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2020-10-16T21:33:25 < Thorn> why is this channel being culturally enriched by -offtopic?
2020-10-16T21:34:09 < mawk> lol
2020-10-16T21:34:34 < mawk> the arrow of progress Thorn 
2020-10-16T21:36:14 < kakisback> hello night crew
2020-10-16T21:36:29 < catphish> Thorn: what?
2020-10-16T21:36:54 < Cracki> good night, fellow night owls
2020-10-16T21:37:03 < mawk> lol
2020-10-16T21:38:48 < apathy> damn Cracki what time is it over there? your bed time is way too early. Stay up with Blaxter and friends. We're drinking Monster and eating tendies from mum.
2020-10-16T21:39:34 < Cracki> I just had sliced ham on cheese. sliced beast is the best thing since sliced bread.
2020-10-16T21:40:11 < Cracki> my tendie stash is good too
2020-10-16T21:40:26 < apathy> yea i have some tendies in the fridge but i had tacos instead
2020-10-16T21:40:27 < qyx> what
2020-10-16T21:40:29 < qyx> whos apathy
2020-10-16T21:40:42 < Cracki> I'm used to being greeted with... anachronistic phrases for the time of day
2020-10-16T21:40:46 < Cracki> nomen est omen
2020-10-16T21:42:16 < Cracki> if yall wanna cringe, watch season 3 episode 1 of star trek discovery. a spinning fucking spaceship (another). everything makes star wars noises. it's horrible.
2020-10-16T21:42:52 < Steffanx> Season 3 is new?
2020-10-16T21:44:11  * emeb is still on S1
2020-10-16T21:44:58 < kakisback> season?
2020-10-16T21:45:36 < Steffanx> Season
2020-10-16T21:46:01 < kakisback> saison
2020-10-16T21:50:34 -!- kakisback is now known as kakibeer
2020-10-16T21:50:39 < Steffanx> Hows your back today?
2020-10-16T21:50:51 < kakibeer> back is gone
2020-10-16T21:50:59 < kakibeer> beer is in
2020-10-16T21:51:26 < Steffanx> Fuck beer.
2020-10-16T21:51:30 < kakibeer> I'm thinking if I should go wild and have another one
2020-10-16T21:51:48 < Steffanx> 0.0%?
2020-10-16T21:51:54 < kakibeer> 5.0%
2020-10-16T21:52:12 < kakibeer> *5.2% and 8.0%
2020-10-16T21:57:21 < PaulFertser> What style?
2020-10-16T21:58:42 < zyp> catphish, those things also exists, I have a couple :p
2020-10-16T21:59:43 < zyp> catphish, https://www.sunricher.com/zigbee-ac-in-wall-switch-sr-zg9101sac-hp-switch.html
2020-10-16T22:00:31 < zyp> you get both dimmers and relays like that
2020-10-16T22:00:35 < catphish> zyp: i found that :) it's not *exactly* what i designed, because it only works with momentary switches, but close
2020-10-16T22:01:01 < zyp> normal switches only need a spring to become momentary
2020-10-16T22:01:08 < zyp> at least the kind we have here
2020-10-16T22:01:14 < catphish> a dimming version of that, with momentary switches might be ideal, then you can actually dim them
2020-10-16T22:01:35 < zyp> I used a bunch of zwave things like that the last place I lived
2020-10-16T22:02:11 < catphish> i don't know much about the radio protocols really
2020-10-16T22:02:24 < catphish> like how to pair stuff, or if it always requires a central controller
2020-10-16T22:02:38 < zyp> you don't have to, they pretty much have similar functionality
2020-10-16T22:02:54 < zyp> zigbee is 2.4G, zwave is 868MHz
2020-10-16T22:03:20 < zyp> and IIRC zwave stack is also proprietary so only sigma designs or something makes radio chips for it
2020-10-16T22:03:32 < zyp> zigbee is a bit more open
2020-10-16T22:03:51 < catphish> zigbee seems the better (at least more open) protocol to me
2020-10-16T22:03:56 < catphish> but i haven't researched it well
2020-10-16T22:04:16 < zyp> having used both, I prefer zigbee mainly for the ubiquity of ZLL bulbs on the market
2020-10-16T22:04:37 < zyp> I've got an ikea 20 minutes away that'll sell me a <$10 ZLL bulb
2020-10-16T22:04:45 < zyp> can't say the same for zwave
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2020-10-16T22:05:45 < catphish> standardizing on zigbee bulbs would be awesome, just need to work out the switches
2020-10-16T22:05:56 < catphish> so, how are they paired?
2020-10-16T22:06:13 < zyp> zigbee? there's multiple ways
2020-10-16T22:06:30 < zyp> the defacto way of pairing ZLL is called touchlink
2020-10-16T22:07:11 < zyp> it's using some ranging tricks, so all you have to do is hold a remote up to the bulb 10cm away and hold a button until it pairs
2020-10-16T22:07:14 < catphish> wow that ikea stuff is cheap!!
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2020-10-16T22:07:40 < catphish> they don't do a full size switch though sadly
2020-10-16T22:07:43 < zyp> I'm using deconz which I believe relies on traditional pairing
2020-10-16T22:08:11 < zyp> essentially I just put the controller in pairing mode and turn on the bulbs one by one
2020-10-16T22:09:18 < zyp> feels a bit less reliable than touchlink, but it's a one time hassle, so not much of a big deal
2020-10-16T22:09:52 < zyp> zwave is similar, put both controller and new device in pairing mode
2020-10-16T22:10:38 < zyp> I believe some newer zwave stuff have what they call «installer codes», which is printed on each device and acts as a sort of 2FA
2020-10-16T22:11:15 < zyp> newer zigbee might have something similar, idk
2020-10-16T22:12:16 < zyp> anyway
2020-10-16T22:12:28 < zyp> I prefer smart bulbs over relay or dimmer modules
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2020-10-16T22:12:57 < catphish> i'm working on making up my mind
2020-10-16T22:12:59 < zyp> partly because the ikea ones are so cheap, partly because I can control them all individually
2020-10-16T22:13:16 < catphish> might get messy and expensive with GU10 spots
2020-10-16T22:13:31 < zyp> in the living room I have rails in the ceiling with fixed power, so I can just put up lamps anywhere
2020-10-16T22:13:41 < zyp> how so?
2020-10-16T22:13:48 < zyp> ikea also has spots for installation
2020-10-16T22:14:02 < zyp> https://www.ikea.com/no/no/p/leptiter-led-integrert-spotlight-dimbar-varmhvit-til-kaldhvit-50353513/
2020-10-16T22:14:22 < zyp> I'd get those if I wanted integrated spotlights
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2020-10-16T22:15:35 < catphish> this is what they have in UK https://www.ikea.com/gb/en/p/tradfri-led-bulb-gu10-400-lumen-wireless-dimmable-warm-white-60420041/
2020-10-16T22:16:10 < zyp> yeah, I got a bunch of those
2020-10-16T22:16:27 < zyp> https://www.ikea.com/gb/en/p/leptiter-led-recessed-spotlight-dimmable-white-spectrum-50353513/ <- they have these in the UK too
2020-10-16T22:16:30 < catphish> i guess £6 is actually pretty cheap, even to do a whole house
2020-10-16T22:16:46 < zyp> https://bin.jvnv.net/file/v3vXg.jpg <- I have this kind of rails
2020-10-16T22:17:01 < zyp> pic is from before I finished installing them, I have three running the length of the room now
2020-10-16T22:17:11 < catphish> what's the purpose of that thing?
2020-10-16T22:17:14 < zyp> with two hanging lamps and six spots
2020-10-16T22:17:20 < catphish> to keep the high volage away from the opening?
2020-10-16T22:17:23 < zyp> what thing?
2020-10-16T22:17:25 < apathy> asyncioreactor.install() wtf
2020-10-16T22:17:33 < catphish> this https://www.ikea.com/gb/en/p/leptiter-led-recessed-spotlight-dimmable-white-spectrum-50353513/
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2020-10-16T22:18:00 < zyp> it can be installed right in the insulation
2020-10-16T22:18:11 < zyp> GU10 spots can't since some idiot can stick a halogen bulb in it
2020-10-16T22:18:22 < apathy> look at all those smart light thingies you're on your way to having a fully surveilled smarthome so amazongoogle can direct your consumption patterns \o/
2020-10-16T22:18:29 < catphish> zyp: oh i see, cool
2020-10-16T22:19:27 < catphish> i'm sure we have recessed GU10 in the UK though
2020-10-16T22:19:57 < zyp> yeah, but there has to be a box above it to ensure enough air around it
2020-10-16T22:20:27 < kakibeer> PaulFertser: "special crafty" lager and another is wheat
2020-10-16T22:20:37 < catphish> yeah, looks like hey have thermal insulation
2020-10-16T22:20:39 < PaulFertser> kakibeer: cool
2020-10-16T22:20:44 < kakibeer> with a picture of monk on it
2020-10-16T22:20:48 < PaulFertser> kakibeer: but I like porters/stouts
2020-10-16T22:21:24 < zyp> catphish, I've worked as an electrician before, back when GU10 spots were still the shit
2020-10-16T22:21:28 < catphish> zyp: i'm worried that the integrated one would be a pain to replace
2020-10-16T22:21:42 < zyp> why?
2020-10-16T22:22:06 < zyp> you're not supposed to need to replace it
2020-10-16T22:22:11 < catphish> oh, actually, i guess the whole thing would drop out quite easily
2020-10-16T22:22:11 < kakibeer> PaulFertser: how about dark lager?
2020-10-16T22:22:21 < catphish> zyp: what do you do if the LED fails?
2020-10-16T22:22:24 < zyp> and if you do, all you have to do is pull the entire thing out with cables and all
2020-10-16T22:22:37 < PaulFertser> kakibeer: well, porters go through lagering stage :)
2020-10-16T22:22:47 < catphish> zyp: yeah, i see it would come out cables and all
2020-10-16T22:23:12 < PaulFertser> But other than that, no, I tried two different "dunkels" yesterday but didn't enjoy. Probably they also sucked just because made that way, not sure.
2020-10-16T22:23:29 < zyp> I figure the LED should last long enough that when it fails it's already outdated technology that you'll replace with something new :p
2020-10-16T22:23:53 < catphish> my last batch of philips LED spot only lasted 5 years
2020-10-16T22:24:23 < kakibeer> PaulFertser: https://www.litovel.cz/en/litovel-premium-dark this was pretty easy to pour down
2020-10-16T22:25:46 < PaulFertser> kakibeer: if you enjoyed it you might enjoy an English porter too.
2020-10-16T22:26:05 < PaulFertser> Or more
2020-10-16T22:28:52 < kakibeer> maybe
2020-10-16T22:29:27 < kakibeer> but generally I don't
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2020-10-16T22:49:09 < kakibeer> have you tried sour flavours PaulFertser?
2020-10-16T22:52:45 < PaulFertser> kakibeer: few , didn't like
2020-10-16T22:54:26 < kakibeer> I liked "Brooklyn Bel Air Sour"
2020-10-16T22:55:48 < Laurenceb> I see muslims are adapting to French culture
2020-10-16T22:56:03 < Laurenceb> beheading has been a french custom for several hundred years
2020-10-16T22:56:33 < kakibeer> you forgot >
2020-10-16T22:57:13 < kakibeer> but funny nevertheless
2020-10-16T22:57:35 < Laurenceb> >French surgeon and physiologist Antoine Louis, together with German engineer Tobias Schmidt, built a prototype for the guillotine
2020-10-16T22:57:44 < Laurenceb> hmm not pure French it seems
2020-10-16T23:00:10 < Laurenceb>  *muh heritage intensifies*
2020-10-16T23:00:11 < kakibeer> dope
2020-10-16T23:07:09 < kakibeer> learning scala
2020-10-16T23:07:24 < kakibeer> seems nice but does this language has any uses?
2020-10-16T23:08:12 < BrainDamage> that question can be repeated for dozens of languages
2020-10-16T23:08:21 < zyp> scala? isn't that some java derivate?
2020-10-16T23:09:35 < kakibeer> maybe
2020-10-16T23:10:05 < kakibeer> I don't know the exact relationship
2020-10-16T23:10:25 < zyp> me neither, I just know to avoid anything related to java
2020-10-16T23:12:58 -!- Streaker [~Streaker@unaffiliated/streaker] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds]
2020-10-16T23:15:53 < Steffanx> python is related to java
2020-10-16T23:16:07 < zyp> fuck off
2020-10-16T23:16:42 < Steffanx> lol, hard day today zyp?
2020-10-16T23:16:46 -!- steverrrr [~steve@ool-182f8dfd.dyn.optonline.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds]
2020-10-16T23:17:01 < zyp> no, quite pleasant actually
2020-10-16T23:17:07 < Steffanx> Excellent.
2020-10-16T23:18:23 < zyp> was out shooting some test vids with the thermo cam
2020-10-16T23:18:46 -!- Jak_o_Shadows [~Jak@unaffiliated/jak-o-shadows/x-0479135] has joined ##stm32
2020-10-16T23:19:47 < Laurenceb> lurn matlab
2020-10-16T23:20:12 < zyp> brought the kid as well, she's running a cold and had to stay home from kindergarden today
2020-10-16T23:26:15 -!- steverrrr [~steve@ool-182f8dfd.dyn.optonline.net] has joined ##stm32
2020-10-16T23:35:15 -!- emeb_mac [~ericb@ip174-73-159-221.ph.ph.cox.net] has joined ##stm32
2020-10-16T23:43:09 < Cracki> so she's got the rona. did ya point the thermo cam at the kid?
2020-10-16T23:45:46 < zyp> obviously :p
2020-10-16T23:48:59 < zyp> I think this is the third time she's having cold symptoms since she started kindergarden, couldn't really be covid each time, so I figure most likely it's not that this time either :p
2020-10-16T23:53:34 < Steffanx> Kids in kindergarten are sick all the time and when youre lucky you too
2020-10-16T23:53:38 < jadew> twitter blocked NY Post for posting this article: https://nypost.com/2020/10/14/email-reveals-how-hunter-biden-introduced-ukrainian-biz-man-to-dad/
2020-10-16T23:53:43 < zyp> Steffanx, exactly
2020-10-16T23:54:44 -!- steverrrr [~steve@ool-182f8dfd.dyn.optonline.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds]
2020-10-16T23:56:40 < jadew> they blocked everyone from sharing that article lol
2020-10-16T23:56:47 < jadew> https://thefederalist.com/2020/10/14/twitter-suspends-new-york-post-account-over-bombshell-hunter-biden-story/
--- Day changed Sat Oct 17 2020
2020-10-17T00:17:38 < ds2> why hasn't all those services lost their safe harbor status?
2020-10-17T00:18:35 < karlp> because safe harbour is really only about child porn (for the public image) and about movie piracy...
2020-10-17T00:18:41 < karlp> despite what the label on the box says.
2020-10-17T00:19:27 < ds2> safe harbor for their common carrier crap so they are not responsible for anything
2020-10-17T00:30:07 < kakibeer> ##harborsafe32
2020-10-17T00:30:30 -!- kakibeer is now known as kakisback
2020-10-17T00:31:10 < Steffanx> Kak is back or kaki's back?
2020-10-17T00:32:02 < kakisback> yrs
2020-10-17T00:32:07 < kakisback> yes!
2020-10-17T00:36:46 < Steffanx> Yes what.
2020-10-17T00:42:44 -!- boB_K7IQ [~boB_K7IQ@152.44.147.180] has joined ##stm32
2020-10-17T00:47:30 < Cracki> jadew, careful with the wrongthink. if you post that link here you're in danger of getting canceled
2020-10-17T00:48:39 < Cracki> oh btw star trek lower decks is kinda funny, also kinda nerdy and wholesome, and I haven't noticed any woke bullshit in the first three episodes
2020-10-17T00:49:05 < Steffanx> You guys are already cancelled. Its just ignored.
2020-10-17T00:50:45 < Laurenceb> Soros did 9/11 . t . apathy
2020-10-17T00:51:55 < kakisback> what is cancelled?
2020-10-17T00:52:48 < Laurenceb> >4chan blocks us ip addresses
2020-10-17T00:53:03 < Cracki> it's when you did a crimethink and that causes you to be unemployable, your bank accounts get closed, ...
2020-10-17T00:53:11 < Laurenceb> >8chan blocks Philippines 
2020-10-17T00:53:18 < Laurenceb> >bitchute blocks uk
2020-10-17T00:53:22 < Cracki> oh and domestic terrorists burn your house down every night
2020-10-17T00:53:24 < Laurenceb> I see a pattern here
2020-10-17T00:53:32 < BrainDamage> all internet media fights tooth and nail to not be classified as such because otherwise they'd have the same liabilities as real journalists, and they don't want that
2020-10-17T00:54:04 < Cracki> real journalists aren't liable for anything. the shit they write proves that.
2020-10-17T00:54:47 < BrainDamage> they can write it, but they can still be sued over
2020-10-17T00:54:50 < Laurenceb> I think the lesson is block all users from your home country
2020-10-17T00:55:00 < Cracki> and the law sucks when twitter can make "editorial decisions" when they please, but be excused from having to take responsibility for other stuff they leave up
2020-10-17T00:55:01  * karlp rebases kicad libs
2020-10-17T00:55:22 < Laurenceb> >using twitter
2020-10-17T00:55:38 < Laurenceb> thats your first problem
2020-10-17T00:55:50 < BrainDamage> your sarcastic remark is wasted when half the world uses it
2020-10-17T00:56:08 < BrainDamage> like it or not, it's there and being used
2020-10-17T00:56:15 < Laurenceb> I've never me anyone irl who uses it
2020-10-17T00:56:22 < Cracki> just build your own {twitter, internet, banking system, court system, ...}
2020-10-17T00:56:26 < Laurenceb> just the media and celebs
2020-10-17T00:56:48 < Laurenceb> *met
2020-10-17T00:56:52 < BrainDamage> isn't that good enough reason to read it?
2020-10-17T00:56:54 < Laurenceb> and Roko Mijic
2020-10-17T00:57:05 < Laurenceb> lolno, its a reason for it to be cancer
2020-10-17T00:57:19 < Laurenceb> he is emailing me again...
2020-10-17T00:57:32 < Laurenceb> mr Grimes bf
2020-10-17T00:57:47 < Laurenceb> the basilisk
2020-10-17T01:01:01 < Laurenceb> surely there is an ED page on this
2020-10-17T01:01:42 < Laurenceb> >ED is down yet again
2020-10-17T01:06:36 < Laurenceb> https://www.reddit.com/r/philosophy/comments/8ial7a/lesswrong_may_be_more_dangerous_than_rokos/
2020-10-17T01:06:42 < Laurenceb> lolling
2020-10-17T01:08:22 < Laurenceb> I wonder if my ED pages will survive
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2020-10-17T01:28:12 < Cracki> that reddit poster hasn't understood roko's basilisk
2020-10-17T01:29:08 < Cracki> I predict IQ around 100-115
2020-10-17T01:29:38 < Laurenceb> >understood it
2020-10-17T01:29:44 < Laurenceb> its retarded
2020-10-17T01:29:58 < Cracki> don't make me speculate on your IQ, doctor
2020-10-17T01:30:06 < Cracki> and yes it is
2020-10-17T01:30:21 < Laurenceb> but not as retarded as average redditor
2020-10-17T01:30:31 < Cracki> it's the type of mental maze that only traps susceptible types
2020-10-17T01:30:45 < kakisback> how much your IQ lurencer?
2020-10-17T01:31:01 < Laurenceb> Dunning–Kruger forumz
2020-10-17T01:31:07 < Laurenceb> >muh IQ
2020-10-17T01:31:15 < Laurenceb> why would I take some daft test
2020-10-17T01:31:36 < Laurenceb> >intelligence is a number
2020-10-17T01:31:59 < Cracki> >is just a number
2020-10-17T01:32:13 < Cracki> ewwwww you'd fuck with a double digit IQ you pervert!
2020-10-17T01:32:20 < Laurenceb> lmao
2020-10-17T01:32:27 < Cracki> walked right into that
2020-10-17T01:32:33 < karlp> thanks for trying BrainDamage 
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2020-10-17T01:34:41 < kakisback> bye funny one
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2020-10-17T01:46:20 < Cracki> some philosophy related to that reddit post (someone mentioned wittgenstein's "bewitchment through language") https://dl1.cuni.cz/pluginfile.php/798825/mod_resource/content/1/Reading%20for%20Class%2004%20-%20Wittgenstein%20on%20how%20LANGUAGE%20Shapes%20our%20view%20of%20the%20world.pdf
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2020-10-17T02:10:35 < karlp> well, this is fun.
2020-10-17T02:10:45 < karlp> kicad symbol libraries just changed format.
2020-10-17T02:10:59 < karlp> any outstanding pull requests or work being prepared for upstream...
2020-10-17T02:11:01 < karlp> all trash now.
2020-10-17T02:11:38 < zyp> no conversion tools?
2020-10-17T02:13:05 < zyp> sounds like a poor way to handle it either way, would be more reasonable to keep support for both formats, at least for a while
2020-10-17T02:13:40 < karlp> yeah, just asking them now.
2020-10-17T02:13:45 < zyp> maybe deprecate the old one and drop it at some point down the line after everything switched
2020-10-17T02:13:53 < karlp> well, the thing is,
2020-10-17T02:14:03 < zyp> but idk, I know nothing about it except what you just wrote
2020-10-17T02:14:11 < karlp> if i'd added my own parts to my own external lib, that probably is what weas intended.
2020-10-17T02:14:20 < karlp> except I always intended to get my parts upstreamed, 
2020-10-17T02:14:35 < karlp> just always ran into ..... hoops that had to be jumped through
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2020-10-17T02:14:57 < Laurenceb> holy shit the cages have arrived
2020-10-17T02:15:03 < karlp> so they're patches on core libs, that thye, somewhat understandably, migrated themselves forward
2020-10-17T02:15:06 < Laurenceb> >literally a van loaded with cages
2020-10-17T02:15:16 < Laurenceb> its outside my house right now
2020-10-17T02:15:27 < karlp> I expect, "copy all parts to new lib, copy back in whatever you think you migt upstream after jumping forward"
2020-10-17T02:15:30 < Laurenceb> neighbours being loded in lmao
2020-10-17T02:15:34 < Laurenceb> *loaded
2020-10-17T02:16:16 < Laurenceb> taser spotted
2020-10-17T02:16:30 < kakisback> wat?
2020-10-17T02:16:38 < Laurenceb> I dunno
2020-10-17T02:16:40 < kakisback> are you greenlining again or is this real?
2020-10-17T02:16:48 < Laurenceb> very real
2020-10-17T02:17:07 < zyp> pics or it didn't happen
2020-10-17T02:17:08 < Laurenceb> my neighbours are from Nottingham
2020-10-17T02:17:16 < Laurenceb> this explains everything
2020-10-17T02:17:38 < Laurenceb> lol supposedly they have been threatening people with a rifle
2020-10-17T02:17:46 < karlp> _you're_ from nham yuou fucking sheffield wanker
2020-10-17T02:17:48 < Laurenceb> I did hear some gunshots earlier
2020-10-17T02:17:54 < Laurenceb> lol
2020-10-17T02:17:56 < Cracki> and now they're getting shoved in cages absolutely
2020-10-17T02:18:00 < Laurenceb> I live in Derby
2020-10-17T02:18:05 < Laurenceb> also hello nsa
2020-10-17T02:18:43 < Cracki> you are the most 4chan person I've ever seen
2020-10-17T02:18:44 < Laurenceb> Nottingham aka Shottingham
2020-10-17T02:18:49 < Laurenceb> ikr
2020-10-17T02:18:50 < Cracki> you're so 4chan you're 8chan
2020-10-17T02:19:14 < Cracki> >The stories and information posted here are artistic works of fiction and falsehood. Only a fool would take anything posted here as fact.
2020-10-17T02:20:02 < Cracki> you should try writing a movie script. I'm sure people will turn that into history.
2020-10-17T02:20:05 < Cracki> >_>
2020-10-17T02:20:09 < Laurenceb> my whole life has been spent shitposting
2020-10-17T02:20:17 < Laurenceb> literally from the age of 6
2020-10-17T02:20:46 < Laurenceb> I have the 4chan persona
2020-10-17T02:23:35 < Laurenceb> https://patents.google.com/patent/US875845A/en?inventor=Ellen+E.+Perkins&oq=+Ellen+E.+Perkins
2020-10-17T02:24:55 < Laurenceb> celebrating female inventors 
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2020-10-17T02:34:45 < apathy> mudtv up
2020-10-17T02:36:07 < Cracki> not an accident
2020-10-17T02:37:08 < apathy> get your 90's nostalgia fix
2020-10-17T02:37:16 < apathy> crack beers and watch greta do boring shit
2020-10-17T02:37:24 < Cracki> >residing at BEAVER Bay
2020-10-17T02:38:17 < Cracki> >It is a deplorable but well known fact that one of the most common causes of insanity,  -imbecility and feeble mindedness, especially in youth,is due to masturbation or self abuse.
2020-10-17T02:38:26 < Cracki> oh laurence how do you do it
2020-10-17T02:38:37 < Cracki> don't answer
2020-10-17T02:38:53 < Cracki> I don't know what I'm saying
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2020-10-17T03:21:16 < rajkosto> https://twitter.com/horac341/status/1311911734572208129
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2020-10-17T06:51:18 < kiki_lamb> Which document do I need to find the full documentation of the STM32F103's timer configuration registers? The datasheet itself seems to only give a brief summary, there must be some other document that goes into detail..
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2020-10-17T08:46:16 < Streaker> kiki_lamb√ programming manual, reference manual.
2020-10-17T08:49:35 < kiki_lamb> Streaker: Ah-hah, okay, found the programming manual. Thanks!
2020-10-17T08:49:58 < Streaker> kiki_lamb√ look at the reference manual
2020-10-17T08:50:17 < kiki_lamb> Okay, I'll pull that up too.
2020-10-17T08:50:50 < kiki_lamb> Ah, looks like that's the one with the timer register details. Perfect.
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2020-10-17T15:33:10 < Laurenceb> >no ED page about lesswrong
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2020-10-17T15:33:12 < Laurenceb> fail
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2020-10-17T16:54:06 < mawk> Steffanx: https://youtu.be/tz1aZq3axgg
2020-10-17T16:54:17 < mawk> it's a co-citizen of us
2020-10-17T16:57:39 < mawk> lol ex-president Sarközy got charged for "conspiracy to commit a crime"
2020-10-17T16:57:59 < mawk> for taking in money from Kadhafi, the lybian guy
2020-10-17T16:58:25 < Steffanx> I bet every dutchy from my age knows that one mawk
2020-10-17T16:58:40 < mawk> I found it when I was 12 or something
2020-10-17T16:58:44 < mawk> I wasn't sure if it was serious or not
2020-10-17T16:58:57 < Steffanx> Same as https://youtu.be/Qz4HfJHxMk4
2020-10-17T16:59:31 < mawk> yes
2020-10-17T17:00:22 < mawk> good xtc imitation
2020-10-17T17:00:32 < mawk> I wouldn't do better
2020-10-17T17:01:38 < Steffanx> Serious... i think of (semi-popular) music from the 90s isnt entirely serious
2020-10-17T17:01:56 < Steffanx> Want more dutch classics mawk?
2020-10-17T17:01:58 < Steffanx> Here you go https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vhgfF2YY_zY
2020-10-17T17:02:44 < mawk> lol
2020-10-17T17:02:51 < mawk> what kind of accent is that
2020-10-17T17:04:36 < Steffanx> it seems the band is from Overijssel.. so i'd say overijssels.
2020-10-17T17:05:23 < Steffanx> Did you rage at your king yet mr mawk? Since he went on holiday to Greece while we have to stay at home?
2020-10-17T17:05:34 < mawk> sorry I have no king
2020-10-17T17:06:21 < mawk> let him stay there
2020-10-17T17:06:24 < mawk> quarantine forever
2020-10-17T17:06:31 < mawk> you'd be better off
2020-10-17T17:06:39 < Steffanx> No he'll come back
2020-10-17T17:06:49 < Steffanx> He didnt like all the negativity in the media
2020-10-17T17:07:15 < mawk> lol
2020-10-17T17:07:20 < mawk> why should he care anyway
2020-10-17T17:07:25 < mawk> he's the king
2020-10-17T17:07:29 < mawk> he has life and death right over you
2020-10-17T17:07:41 < Steffanx> He has to give a good example.
2020-10-17T17:07:42 < mawk> he will behead all these media peasants when he arrives
2020-10-17T17:08:25 < Steffanx> lol the entire royal family is a joke, he has nothing to say
2020-10-17T17:08:48 < Steffanx> Im not even sure why we still have a king
2020-10-17T17:09:11 < mawk> behead him
2020-10-17T17:09:16 < mawk> like all the reasonable people did
2020-10-17T17:09:31 < Steffanx> -_
2020-10-17T17:09:32 < Steffanx> _
2020-10-17T17:09:35 < Steffanx> -
2020-10-17T17:10:38 < Steffanx> Revolutionish things is what you french excel at
2020-10-17T17:11:21 < mawk> kadhafi got beheaded too
2020-10-17T17:11:23 < mawk> it's not only the french
2020-10-17T17:12:21 < mawk> a lot of people are reasonable
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2020-10-17T17:43:28 < mawk> PaulFertser: what is the probability that two numbers taken at random are coprime?
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2020-10-17T17:43:50 < mawk> or more amazingly, why is it 6/π² ?
2020-10-17T17:47:00 < bitmask> finally replaced my mbp battery
2020-10-17T17:47:09 < bitmask> it was puffed up and had to keep my case half open for months
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2020-10-17T17:56:26 < Cracki> forbidden hotpocket
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2020-10-17T18:59:41 < PaulFertser> mawk: haha, I guess that's far beyond my knowledge. I think I've never talked IRL with anybody familiar with number theory.
2020-10-17T19:00:01 < mawk> it's easier than you think
2020-10-17T19:02:39 < mawk> probability that a number taken at random is divisible by 2 is 1/2 PaulFertser , right?
2020-10-17T19:02:44 < mawk> could be odd or even
2020-10-17T19:02:53 < mawk> probability that it's divisible by 3 is 1/3, and so on
2020-10-17T19:03:03 < mawk> that's the only thing you need
2020-10-17T19:04:24 < PaulFertser> mawk: btw, I was just buying things at Auchan and they offered me to choose with "what probability are you going to recommend auchan to your friends" and the touchscreen had 10 buttons drawn, each having an integer from 1 to 10. I told her I'm not measuring probability in that way, the highest probability possible by definition is 1. 
2020-10-17T19:05:31 < mawk> lol
2020-10-17T19:05:43 < PaulFertser> She asked if it would be ok if there were percentages there and I said that it would sort of be OK but it still wouldn't be probability but "probability density".
2020-10-17T19:06:23 < PaulFertser> It's easy to be smart talking to ordinary people. It's impossible to be smart talking to mawk.
2020-10-17T19:06:56 < mawk> I'm not very smart lol
2020-10-17T19:07:03 < mawk> what I prefer is complex-looking stuff that is actually very simple
2020-10-17T19:08:31 < Steffanx> So they should have removed the world "probability" PaulFertser  
2020-10-17T19:08:44 < Steffanx> I bet you knew what they meant
2020-10-17T19:09:43 < mawk> meh
2020-10-17T19:09:46 < PaulFertser> Steffanx: I guess they meant probability density and that I'm supposed to somehow re-norm 0-0.1 to 1-10 and tbh that's not an immediately obvious operation to me.
2020-10-17T19:09:56 < mawk> Steffanx: on a scale from apple to banana, how would you recommand our store?
2020-10-17T19:10:03 < PaulFertser> Eh 0.0--1.0 I meant
2020-10-17T19:11:43 < PaulFertser> Steffanx: because you have 11 points with 0.1 interval between them in the first case, and they offer just 10 points.
2020-10-17T19:17:19 < mawk> PaulFertser: https://maths.serveur.io/7zkibIUz
2020-10-17T19:17:22 < mawk> see
2020-10-17T19:17:26 < mawk> it's simpler than expected
2020-10-17T19:17:36 < mawk> it's one of these cool and easy connections between unrelated topics
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2020-10-17T19:20:53 < mawk> you could generate a bunch of numbers in [0; 2^32-1], check coprimeness, do the stats, you'll find 6/π² as proportion of coprimnes
2020-10-17T19:25:46 < mawk> but you have auchan in russia PaulFertser ???¿¿
2020-10-17T19:26:31 < PaulFertser> mawk: decathlon too
2020-10-17T19:26:38 < PaulFertser> ikea
2020-10-17T19:26:54 < mawk> ikea is the intruder in that list
2020-10-17T19:26:55 < PaulFertser> But no car foo
2020-10-17T19:27:01 < mawk> lol car foo
2020-10-17T19:27:10 < PaulFertser> I can't spell French, sorry
2020-10-17T19:27:12 < mawk> they have some in china
2020-10-17T19:27:21 < mawk> I'm sure it's also an english word
2020-10-17T19:27:23 < mawk> carrefour
2020-10-17T19:28:08 < mawk> nobody remembers how to spell it even in france don't worry
2020-10-17T19:28:09 < PaulFertser> I guess it's a french word all right, probably some english people just know how to read as they have many other funny words taken from French.
2020-10-17T19:28:13 < mawk> why would they put two Rs in it
2020-10-17T19:29:05 < PaulFertser> (hm, usually the word "borrow" is used to refer to such words but aren't you supposed to eventually return what you borrow?) 
2020-10-17T19:29:17 < mawk> that's why I say "steal" in that context
2020-10-17T19:42:22 < mawk> you understood my proof I hope
2020-10-17T19:42:23 < mawk> very simple
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2020-10-17T19:42:59 < mawk> probability that neither 2, 3, 5, 7, 11, 13, ..., divides m and n at the same time is (1-1/2²)(1-1/3²)(1-1/5²)...
2020-10-17T19:44:10 < PaulFertser> I need to spend an hour or two understanding it, I can try it later.
2020-10-17T19:44:12 < mawk> you can view it under the prism of modular arithmetic, there are [0; p-1]×[0; p-1] possible residues modulo p for (m; n), so in total p² 2-uples of residues; and only the (0; 0) residue means "p divides both m and n", so the probability of not having (0; 0) is (p²-1)/p²
2020-10-17T19:44:34 < mawk> it's a simple counting argument
2020-10-17T19:44:41 < PaulFertser> modular arithmetic :(
2020-10-17T19:44:47 < mawk> lol
2020-10-17T19:44:58 < mawk> I should have said clock computation, then it looks less scary
2020-10-17T19:45:15 < mawk> but you don't need that, just handwaving about having 1/5 of all numbers that are divisible by 5 is enough
2020-10-17T20:01:22 < jadew> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5QMlIjSnt_E
2020-10-17T20:03:34 < Steffanx> Heh jadew. Even when you know you will be perfectly fine your mind still plays tricks on you.
2020-10-17T20:04:16 < jadew> yeah, I went through that on a 7 m jump, ended up not doing it
2020-10-17T20:04:55 < Steffanx> I never tried, im not sure what i would do
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2020-10-17T20:54:07 < mawk> https://repl.it/repls/FortunateDemandingExtraction computing π in js with random numbers using the above scheme
2020-10-17T20:54:17 < mawk> I don't know why I did in js
2020-10-17T20:54:33 < Thorn> cyclic groups > modular arithmetic
2020-10-17T20:54:43 < mawk> same thing
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2020-10-17T20:58:15 < Steffanx> You love JS, it is known mawk
2020-10-17T20:58:20 < mawk> :(
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--- Day changed Sun Oct 18 2020
2020-10-18T00:24:40 < jadew> installed tiktok earlier and scrolled through with my wife
2020-10-18T00:24:48 < jadew> it's a freak show
2020-10-18T00:25:13 < jadew> so... interesting to watch for 10 minutes
2020-10-18T00:26:31 < jadew> and we realized that we're no longer up to date with the latest crap, but also that we didn't miss much
2020-10-18T00:27:13 < jadew> also, I don't understand why people make those videos
2020-10-18T00:34:22 < Steffanx> Because fun 
2020-10-18T00:34:32 < Steffanx> Why do you write software all day long?
2020-10-18T00:37:48 < plandemic> keep it installed. you'll need it to buy food once Queen Kamala is in power
2020-10-18T00:43:26 < Cracki> is she a chinese plant
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2020-10-18T13:41:03 < jadew> lol @ this channel's name: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7Lq3_rsBJ9w
2020-10-18T13:41:28 < Mangy_Dog> ahh its a talk show
2020-10-18T13:41:31 < Mangy_Dog> here in the uk
2020-10-18T13:41:38 < Mangy_Dog> its about loose talk
2020-10-18T13:42:07 < jadew> so they went for the double meaning, eh?
2020-10-18T13:42:27 < Mangy_Dog> whats the other meaning? >.>
2020-10-18T13:42:40 < Mangy_Dog> loose in the bowls?
2020-10-18T13:43:06 < jadew> 3 meanings I guess, but maybe one of them isn't really that wide spread
2020-10-18T13:43:11 < jadew> 1) loose vagina
2020-10-18T13:43:24 < jadew> 2) flusy/easy/whore
2020-10-18T13:44:00 < jadew> 3) the one you mentioned
2020-10-18T13:44:52 < jadew> it's like having a talk show called "hard cocks", being about men, with strong opinions, arguing
2020-10-18T13:46:02 < Mangy_Dog> ohhhh
2020-10-18T13:46:08 < Mangy_Dog> thats not really a saying here in the uk
2020-10-18T13:46:19 < Mangy_Dog> loose women is more chatty meaning here
2020-10-18T13:46:25 < Mangy_Dog> gossiping
2020-10-18T13:47:03 < jadew> yeah, it makes sense
2020-10-18T13:47:09 < Streaker> is that what your girlfriend told you?
2020-10-18T13:47:15 < jadew> haha
2020-10-18T13:47:28 < Mangy_Dog> i dont have a girlfriend D:    and im gay
2020-10-18T13:52:26 < jadew> I had a loose g/f once
2020-10-18T13:52:34 < jadew> very gossipy
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2020-10-18T13:54:54 < jadew> wish I knew about this meaning when I was taking english classes
2020-10-18T13:55:02 < jadew> would have loved to use slip that into a sentence
2020-10-18T13:55:18 < jadew> s/use//
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2020-10-18T14:05:23 < Streaker> its a very uncommon meaning.
2020-10-18T14:07:26 < mawk> don't worry Mangy_Dog we will fund your sexual orientation reassignment therapy
2020-10-18T14:07:33 < mawk> you will be normal in a few weeks
2020-10-18T14:07:47 < mawk> now please ingest this emetic drug while looking at gay porn
2020-10-18T14:08:27 < mawk> which meaning?
2020-10-18T14:08:51 < Streaker> loose = anything other than promiscuous
2020-10-18T14:08:59 < mawk> I don't think so
2020-10-18T14:09:14 < mawk> or maybe in your part of the world it is uncommon
2020-10-18T14:09:44 < mawk> it also means free/unbridled
2020-10-18T14:10:00 < Streaker> in a positive or negative way?
2020-10-18T14:10:16 < mawk> I guess slightly negative
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2020-10-18T14:19:03 < mawk> we don't want you here tcth_ 
2020-10-18T14:19:23 < mawk> you're too far south
2020-10-18T14:21:14 < tcth_> hmpf...
2020-10-18T14:21:16 < tcth_> okay
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2020-10-18T14:22:32 < Steffanx> Cancel the cancelleur.
2020-10-18T14:22:59 < Steffanx> lol
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2020-10-18T14:23:46 < mawk> I can breath again
2020-10-18T14:23:53 < mawk> you almost killed me
2020-10-18T14:23:55 < mawk> mawk lives matter
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2020-10-18T14:29:05 < Steffanx> maybe it matter once... but no more
2020-10-18T14:30:16 < Steffanx> *mattered
2020-10-18T14:34:01 < mawk> :(
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2020-10-18T14:58:13 < Cracki> I doubt he's gonna overdose on fentanyl like that other fella
2020-10-18T14:58:46 < Cracki> fuck, there are morons who haven't read the autopsy and haven't heard medical professionals judge the amounts found to be absolutely lethal
2020-10-18T14:59:43 < Cracki> and if you mention it, the rabid mob pulls you out of your car and murders you
2020-10-18T15:00:07 < plandemic> yep
2020-10-18T15:00:18 < plandemic> and your death certificate says "covid-19 during peaceful protest"
2020-10-18T15:03:11 < Cracki> there are only two options. fight to win, or run.
2020-10-18T15:03:18 < Cracki> spacex follows the "run" strategy: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UM8CDDAmp98
2020-10-18T15:04:25 < Cracki> I made the mistake of checking replies to my comments on yt. utter morons.
2020-10-18T15:05:04 < Cracki> I get more insightful stuff from literal nazis on twadder dot com
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2020-10-18T15:19:18 < Cracki> spacex! giving height as 229 ft and "21-story building"
2020-10-18T15:20:05 < Cracki> they probably work in imperial even internally
2020-10-18T15:20:08 < mawk> lol
2020-10-18T15:22:59 < Cracki> giving internet to indians. they'll only watch cat videos now.
2020-10-18T15:25:46 < Cracki> they say "lox loading". I wonder who hears "salmon loading".
2020-10-18T15:26:05 < mawk> lol
2020-10-18T15:26:09 < mawk> the nosy ones?
2020-10-18T15:26:19 < Cracki> I can't judge their curiosity
2020-10-18T15:27:40 < Cracki> brb checking the hearing range of cats
2020-10-18T15:29:02 < Cracki> huh, 48 hz lower end. purring is given as 25-100 hz so they might not hear half the purring but we can.
2020-10-18T15:29:32 < Cracki> I guess their ears would rattle if they purred and could hear that.
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2020-10-18T15:34:28 < Cracki> wew I never considered, that second stage is accelerating at 50-100 km/h per second. that's some force.
2020-10-18T15:35:22 < Cracki> ~2 g, that's a more familiar way to put it
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2020-10-18T18:34:52 < karlp> rom' overflowed by 48 bytes
2020-10-18T18:34:54 < karlp> doh.
2020-10-18T18:36:30 < karlp> shit, pulled in a division somewhere.
2020-10-18T18:40:47 < Steffanx> Ohno
2020-10-18T18:42:38 < karlp> https://github.com/libopencm3/libopencm3/blob/master/lib/usb/usb_control.c#L65 needs a trick to shrink on m0(+) platforms.
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2020-10-18T19:00:27 < Laurenceb>  Morgellons disease
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2020-10-18T19:41:21 < kakisback> Laurenceb: how is neighbourhood?
2020-10-18T19:42:38 < Laurenceb> neighbours are back
2020-10-18T19:42:39 < Laurenceb> some sort of court case soon aiui
2020-10-18T19:42:49 < Laurenceb> maybe they will be evicted, they shot my other neighbours cat and gutted it
2020-10-18T19:43:01 < Laurenceb> then left the guts all over their car
2020-10-18T19:43:45 < Laurenceb> everyone in my neighbourhood is insane
2020-10-18T19:47:53 < Steffanx> i believe none of those Laurenceb. I still believe you live in your own fantasy world.
2020-10-18T19:51:52 < Cracki> cats https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X7uiXZO7iBk
2020-10-18T19:51:53 < kakisback> I have hard time believing too
2020-10-18T19:51:58 < kakisback> Steffanx
2020-10-18T19:52:27 < kakisback> uk doesn't have guns
2020-10-18T19:53:46 < Laurenceb> lulwut
2020-10-18T19:54:00 < Laurenceb> I hear several gunshots per day
2020-10-18T19:54:05 < Laurenceb> https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/av/world-europe-54576422
2020-10-18T19:54:09 < Cracki> "doesn't have"
2020-10-18T19:54:18 < Steffanx> those arent gunshots..
2020-10-18T19:54:31 < Cracki> uk doesn't have knives or acid either
2020-10-18T19:56:29 < Laurenceb> someone has been walking around my neighbourhood at night in a balaclava with a rifle recently
2020-10-18T19:56:50 < Laurenceb> and everyone knows its the guy from Nottingham
2020-10-18T19:57:30 < Laurenceb> some one who shoots cats
2020-10-18T19:57:36 < jpa-> why are you talking about yourself in third person?
2020-10-18T19:57:42 < kakisback> do you feel anxious about the place you live in lurencer?
2020-10-18T19:59:01 < kakisback> or have you acclimated to it?
2020-10-18T19:59:30 < Laurenceb> lol jpa-
2020-10-18T19:59:31 < Laurenceb> kakisback: I try to avoid getting involved in crazy shit irl
2020-10-18T19:59:32 < Laurenceb> half my neighbours are drug dealers
2020-10-18T19:59:38 < kakisback> > hears gunshots
2020-10-18T20:00:09 < kakisback> > shrugs
2020-10-18T20:00:57 < kakisback> > armored vehicles in front
2020-10-18T20:01:11 < kakisback> > guys in IRCs want to hear about this
2020-10-18T20:01:45 < Steffanx> no i dont
2020-10-18T20:02:46 < Cracki> how about some evidence. news articles maybe.
2020-10-18T20:03:00 < kakisback> pics
2020-10-18T20:03:20 < kakisback> we can assume everyone has a sort of camera nowdays
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2020-10-18T20:04:52 < Streaker> https://www.camgirltoolbox.com/best-butt-plugs-camming/
2020-10-18T20:06:17 < kakisback> you need a thing were it does stuff when someone donates
2020-10-18T20:07:19 < Cracki> get something with electrostimulation. I love to watch people get shocked and jump and shriek
2020-10-18T20:08:02 < kakisback> interesting idea
2020-10-18T20:08:52 < Cracki> ah classics https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b5kpgaFT2bw
2020-10-18T20:09:06 < Cracki> red light means floor it
2020-10-18T20:10:28 < kakisback> speed makes it fit!
2020-10-18T20:11:23 < Cracki> no lube? insert with running start
2020-10-18T20:11:34 < kakisback> I drove lorry once and had height warning system of a tunnel to go full disco
2020-10-18T20:12:02 < kakisback> had to reverse like 200meters
2020-10-18T20:12:25 < Cracki> :D
2020-10-18T20:13:47 < kakisback> luckilly there was nobody to see or block my awkward reversing
2020-10-18T20:13:50 < kakisback> at 1AM
2020-10-18T20:16:51 < Cracki> 11ft8 people call it the reverse of shame but in that case they've usually been shorn already
2020-10-18T20:17:34 < Cracki> that slow crawl and accompanying beep is very special
2020-10-18T20:18:37 < kakisback> in one video the driver flew
2020-10-18T20:22:41 < Laurenceb> Cracki: yeah that was my business idea
2020-10-18T20:22:53 < Laurenceb> pro bluetooth electrostim buttplug
2020-10-18T20:22:54 < Cracki> 11foot8 except for cat murderers
2020-10-18T20:22:58 < Cracki> ah, that
2020-10-18T20:23:15 < Laurenceb> nobody makes such a thing, they are all overcomplex and impractical
2020-10-18T20:23:31 < Laurenceb> also my to reddit thots always have fake diamond buttplugs
2020-10-18T20:23:35 < Laurenceb> its all very odd
2020-10-18T20:23:50 < Laurenceb> *why do
2020-10-18T20:23:54 < Laurenceb> stupid autocorrect
2020-10-18T20:24:18 < Laurenceb> oh wow
2020-10-18T20:24:20 < Laurenceb> >Cloudflare Browser Isolation does thing a bit differently by sending the final output of a browser's web page rendering. As a result, the only thing every sent to a user's device is a package of draw commands to render the webpage
2020-10-18T20:24:31 < Laurenceb> I came up with this a few weeks ago as a troll
2020-10-18T20:24:36 < Laurenceb> now its a real thing
2020-10-18T20:27:43 < Cracki> google stada but for facebook
2020-10-18T20:27:45 < Cracki> great
2020-10-18T20:28:14 < Laurenceb>  /r/gonewild all look like clones
2020-10-18T20:28:18 < Laurenceb> wtf is going on
2020-10-18T20:28:23 < Laurenceb> oh yeah, >reddit
2020-10-18T20:28:30 < Cracki> there's this type of person that thinks it's a great idea to do shit in the cloud and degrade owned devices to dumb terminals
2020-10-18T20:28:37 < Cracki> wut
2020-10-18T20:28:45 < BrainDamage> well, the "old web" used to work like that
2020-10-18T20:29:09 < BrainDamage> where pages were assembled by the server, and then only html/css was sent to the client
2020-10-18T20:29:30 < Cracki> and now they think they can man-in-the-middle this and people won't hang them for it
2020-10-18T20:29:32 < BrainDamage> but scales poorly
2020-10-18T20:30:07 < Cracki> st's website, whoever okayed that needs unspeakable things done to them
2020-10-18T20:30:29 < Laurenceb> lol yeah
2020-10-18T20:30:31 < Laurenceb> its cancer
2020-10-18T20:31:24 < Cracki> r/gonewild, zero results for [m]
2020-10-18T20:31:37 < Cracki> why do these pieces of meat even tag?
2020-10-18T20:31:38 < Laurenceb> lol
2020-10-18T20:31:48 < Cracki> oh, search is just broken
2020-10-18T20:32:08 < Cracki> why is reddit.
2020-10-18T20:32:52 < Cracki> some nice meat there. cheerleader is nice.
2020-10-18T20:33:53 < Laurenceb>  #coomer
2020-10-18T20:34:51 < Cracki> 11foot8 is more entertaining honestly
2020-10-18T20:35:13 < Cracki> only way women could compete is if they ran head first into the bridge
2020-10-18T20:35:23 < Cracki> oh, maybe that was what happened in paris
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2020-10-18T20:38:07 < Cracki> :D cascade failure https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s-4EoI1_yVs
2020-10-18T20:39:25 < Cracki> >it transpired that corners had been cut rather more literally than usual
2020-10-18T20:39:29 < Cracki> meme country
2020-10-18T20:44:35 < jadew> google is the only way standing between us and full js content
2020-10-18T20:45:10 < jadew> the only reason we still have pages that are not served as a bunch of JS + some data, is because google has to look at the final result
2020-10-18T20:49:03 < Cracki> search engine crawlers have no issue just running these pages
2020-10-18T20:49:19 < Cracki> same approach as for malware scanning
2020-10-18T20:49:47 < jadew> you think google is running all the js?
2020-10-18T20:49:57 < BrainDamage> I would imagine so
2020-10-18T20:50:13 < BrainDamage> only way to reliably get all the data
2020-10-18T20:51:01 < BrainDamage> what I'd be curious is how well it performs on sites with custom js navigation
2020-10-18T20:51:16 < BrainDamage> where there's no standard machine procedure to progress
2020-10-18T20:51:37 < jadew> they could use an AI to scroll down
2020-10-18T20:51:38 < BrainDamage> if it can scrape content by brute forcing the controls, etc
2020-10-18T20:52:07 < BrainDamage> it's not just scrolling, but also click-through
2020-10-18T20:52:19 < BrainDamage> and the controls can be stateful, eg depend on dropboxes, etc
2020-10-18T20:52:59 < Cracki> lol love the humour https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=c7VEu4ZHSUU
2020-10-18T20:53:44 < Cracki> I think they'll just say fuck you to that site and move on
2020-10-18T20:54:02 < jadew> https://searchengineland.com/tested-googlebot-crawls-javascript-heres-learned-220157
2020-10-18T20:54:03 < Cracki> standard is for google to demand a sitemap instead of having to crawl things
2020-10-18T20:54:05 < jadew> looks like it does
2020-10-18T21:07:26 < BrainDamage> if you want to see an impressive effect of cascade failure https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2003_Italy_blackout
2020-10-18T21:07:32 < BrainDamage> country-wide blackout for 12h
2020-10-18T21:09:08 < BrainDamage> apparently a lot of studies were inspired by it to find solutions and few papers were published as consequence
2020-10-18T21:14:33 < catphish> that seems unpleasant
2020-10-18T21:16:01 < catphish> why would you design a power supply system such that the loss of a single link can't be covered by the remaining ones though :(
2020-10-18T21:18:20 < PaulFertser> I think it's exactly because the system was designed to provide energy by other links when one becomes unavailable it was possible for a failure to spread.
2020-10-18T21:18:21 < BrainDamage> if you read the wiki article it states that at the base of the accident it was 3 links that failed
2020-10-18T21:19:05 < BrainDamage> and yes, cascade failure can happen exactly because of the interdipendence
2020-10-18T21:20:13 < BrainDamage> and frequency drift tripped plants self protection
2020-10-18T21:20:39 < BrainDamage> so the generation capability was there, but the grid was not under control because the parameters were out of specc
2020-10-18T21:21:00 < BrainDamage> think of the grid as if some sort of autonomous entity, where you only have indirect control
2020-10-18T21:21:55 < BrainDamage> this because eg most turbines are directly hooked to the grid, so their mechanical frequency must match the grid
2020-10-18T21:22:12 < BrainDamage> (at least fixed proportional to)
2020-10-18T21:22:59 < BrainDamage> if the grid and turbine freq relation starts to wander, it creates a disaster because the turbines from generators they start becoming loads
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2020-10-18T21:23:18 < BrainDamage> hence there's freq drift lockouts
2020-10-18T21:24:38 < BrainDamage> some solutions would be switchable coils, or switchable gearing, or even switching regulators between the generators and the grid, but all those solutions are pretty expensive at the MW-GW powers involved in the plants
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2020-10-18T21:25:28 < BrainDamage> switching off a plant is no easy task as well
2020-10-18T21:25:56 < BrainDamage> depending on the type of plant, it can take two minutes for hydro plants, to several hours for fission ones
2020-10-18T21:26:45 < BrainDamage> this because bursts in power flow can damage mechanical parts or even electrical, as a traveling shockwave
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2020-10-18T21:28:11 < BrainDamage> many plants have dummy loads to dump the power to in the event of a grid disconnection
2020-10-18T21:28:41 < BrainDamage> or even just grid demand changes
2020-10-18T21:41:07 < Laurenceb> stratosolar ftw
2020-10-18T21:41:51 < englishman> cool BrainDamage 
2020-10-18T21:42:10 < englishman> reminds me of this https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Northeast_blackout_of_1965
2020-10-18T21:45:14 < PaulFertser> I wonder how they manage it now. Apparently to avoid overloading of those two big links to France they should have promptly disconnected some of the consumers. But the consumers are at the "leafs" of the distribution tree, and so how and who can do that promptly?
2020-10-18T21:46:22 < mawk> usually they have that planned PaulFertser 
2020-10-18T21:46:35 < mawk> there are crisis centers that can quickly shut down customers to have the frequency go back up
2020-10-18T21:46:49 < mawk> they tier all customers depending on how critical the power is for them
2020-10-18T21:46:55 < mawk> then they know which ones to disconnect first
2020-10-18T21:47:19 < mawk> at least that's how it is in France
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2020-10-18T21:48:21 < PaulFertser> "Ingram quipped that the King record "was in the key of R." The station's music playback equipment used AC motors whose speed was dependent on the frequency of the powerline" hah
2020-10-18T21:48:36 < mawk> lol
2020-10-18T21:49:00 < PaulFertser> R for Retarded
2020-10-18T21:49:04 < Laurenceb> https://m.facebook.com/yoloswagstudios/photos/a.388866375093694/625252668121729/?type=3&source=48&__tn__=EH-R
2020-10-18T21:51:19 < PaulFertser> mawk: I wonder if it still requires manual operation or is fully automated.
2020-10-18T21:56:14 < PaulFertser> It's interesting how I can't find reports about cascading failures in the USSR. Probably it was really top-notch back then?
2020-10-18T21:58:56 < mawk> or they hid everything
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2020-10-18T22:02:58 < PaulFertser> There were no blackouts in the immediate post-USSR period too
2020-10-18T22:03:59 < PaulFertser> I see there're systems that automatically disconnect consumers when the voltage drops below a set threshold.
2020-10-18T22:07:10 < PaulFertser> (and plenty of others, e.g. monitoring frequency and having multiple stages for the consumers of different importance)
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2020-10-18T22:14:16 < PaulFertser> The first big event in Russia happened in 2005 (the USSR was dissolved in 1991) and the situation was slowly developing (without disconnecting public transport and other regular consumers) for 35 hours (due to incompetence and some management reorganisations that happened before that).
2020-10-18T22:15:59 < mawk> the terrorist in France is russian, from moscow
2020-10-18T22:16:05 < mawk> but has origins from chechnya
2020-10-18T22:16:41 < jadew> something happened in France?
2020-10-18T22:17:34 < Steffanx> Good morning jadew
2020-10-18T22:17:38 < PaulFertser> You seriously do not know jadew ? The teacher beheaded by islamist.
2020-10-18T22:17:39 < Steffanx> Are you actually from this world?
2020-10-18T22:18:03 < jadew> didn't know...
2020-10-18T22:18:06 < jadew> when did it happen?
2020-10-18T22:18:12 < Steffanx> 2 years ago
2020-10-18T22:18:14 < Steffanx> lol
2020-10-18T22:18:42 < jadew> google says two days ago?
2020-10-18T22:18:43 < Steffanx> friday, jadew
2020-10-18T22:23:36 < jadew> chechnia was hell for a while
2020-10-18T22:25:07 < jadew> I wonder if that guy was influenced by what happened there
2020-10-18T22:25:25 < PaulFertser> The killer was 18.
2020-10-18T22:25:31 < PaulFertser> Born in moscow.
2020-10-18T22:25:35 < PaulFertser> Been to chechnya once.
2020-10-18T22:25:39 < jadew> ah
2020-10-18T22:26:09 < jadew> so it wasn't war trauma
2020-10-18T22:28:08 < PaulFertser> It really looks like the USSR power grid system was rather robust.
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2020-10-18T23:11:18 < englishman> local english news has not touched that beheading at all
2020-10-18T23:11:27 < englishman> it was mentioned in french news in passing
2020-10-18T23:11:56 < englishman> guess it's just part of daily life in france, not newsworthy
2020-10-18T23:17:23 < Cracki> more people should live biblically. eye for an eye. crusades. that stuff. make them stop that shit.
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2020-10-18T23:20:51 < PaulFertser> Most people think of the New Testament when the Bible is mentioned I think. And the New Testament has no "eye for eye" recommendation.
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2020-10-18T23:23:18 < Cracki> sequels always suck
2020-10-18T23:24:29 < PaulFertser> It's not a sequel. Christianity was like a sect, piggy-backing on the widely established tradition.
2020-10-18T23:32:33 < Cracki> wrongthink from 2014 https://youtu.be/BD6h-wDj7bw?t=58
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2020-10-18T23:45:13 < aandrew> englishman: not quite
2020-10-18T23:45:14 < aandrew> https://www.cbc.ca/news/world/demonstrators-across-france-rally-in-tribute-to-beheaded-teacher-1.5767320
2020-10-18T23:45:22 < aandrew> https://www.cbc.ca/player/play/1808512067889
2020-10-18T23:45:33 < aandrew> https://www.cbc.ca/news/world/france-police-killing-teacher-1.5765409
2020-10-18T23:45:35 < aandrew> etc. etc...
2020-10-18T23:47:07 < englishman> ah
2020-10-18T23:47:17 < englishman> hard to drill down to the news through all the blogspam on cbc these days
2020-10-18T23:47:36 < plandemic> it's not news
2020-10-18T23:48:10 < plandemic> https://www.cbc.ca/yourdownload/world/
2020-10-18T23:48:41 < plandemic> https://api.npc.cbc.ca/api/v1/receive_download_neuralink.json
2020-10-18T23:49:09 < Steffanx> Did prison fuck you up or .. were you like this before that?
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2020-10-18T23:51:51 < aandrew> englishman: absolutely agreed, it's frustrating that 99% of CBC is fluff pieces about trannies or body confused people, indigenous, women's issues and trump.
2020-10-18T23:52:08 < englishman> your tax dollars at work
2020-10-18T23:52:15 < aandrew> indeed
2020-10-18T23:52:38 < aandrew> Rick Mercer and Peter Mansbridge were the highlight of CBC funding as far as I'm concerned.
2020-10-18T23:52:51 < englishman> both uneducated white men
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2020-10-18T23:56:37 < aandrew> but Mercer is gay, so he gets bonus marks
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--- Day changed Mon Oct 19 2020
2020-10-19T00:00:23 < jadew> gay is not enough anymore
2020-10-19T00:01:02 < jadew> there have to be something weird about you, so you get to claim that you're opressed
2020-10-19T00:01:55 < jadew> *has to
2020-10-19T00:11:01 < Cracki> mutants.
2020-10-19T00:11:08 < Cracki> mutants are revolting.
2020-10-19T00:11:24 < Cracki> (futurama episode. also a pun.)
2020-10-19T00:11:56 < Cracki> straight white men do straight white men stuff: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9fO8f_Qu3ls
2020-10-19T01:08:26 < karlp> anyone know if there's a version of this: https://github.com/karlp/zypsnips/blob/master/armv7m-vecstate-zippe.gdb that's been updatef ror arm-v6m?
2020-10-19T01:12:20 < karlp> arm ref man seems to indicate taht v6 just has shitty debug?
2020-10-19T01:29:13 < qyx> steffs musics https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dkqyyUTCMUQ
2020-10-19T01:45:28 < kakisback> I think I offered epica once and it was nay
2020-10-19T01:45:38 < karlp> woop, ran into m0 alignment issues.
2020-10-19T01:46:24 < karlp> gadget0 tests have 16bit alignment, but and tests aligned and unaligned, 
2020-10-19T01:46:32 < karlp> fine for usb,
2020-10-19T01:46:51 < karlp> but doing flash half page writes from ram to flash need the ram buffer to be word aligned :)
2020-10-19T02:05:57 < Steffanx> Yes fucking awful kakisback / qyx 
2020-10-19T02:06:15 < kakisback> so 2009 anyway
2020-10-19T02:07:26 < qyx> Steffanx: fuk you
2020-10-19T02:07:37 < Steffanx> Lol no thanks
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2020-10-19T02:14:40 < mawk> just say yes Steffanx 
2020-10-19T02:14:42 < mawk> you'll enjoy it
2020-10-19T02:14:59 < Steffanx> I only like French guys
2020-10-19T02:15:11 < mawk> good
2020-10-19T02:15:17 < mawk> these are the best kind of guys anyway
2020-10-19T02:15:46 < mawk> I can show you how french guys operate the tooling when you come down south
2020-10-19T02:25:09 < qyx> y u no metal, Steffanx 
2020-10-19T02:25:24 < qyx> it is such fulfilling music
2020-10-19T02:25:34 < Steffanx> The "singing" is sooo awful 
2020-10-19T02:26:03 < qyx> thats because you don't know how she sings
2020-10-19T02:28:32 < qyx> you can listen to a random slovakian folk https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QPT_1Ec82nM
2020-10-19T02:28:44 < qyx> quite good actually
2020-10-19T02:33:17 < Steffanx> It wasnt higher pitched voice I disliked. It was the dark deeper voice that made me close the vid
2020-10-19T02:35:45 < qyx> oh you would like karlp's icelandic metal then :P
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2020-10-19T02:52:20 < Steffanx> No, I must admit I don't like metal usually
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2020-10-19T11:50:53 < ds2> q
2020-10-19T11:52:53 < jadew> I was reading the comments on a self defense video, and one of the comments said they tried it and they couldn't do it, which prompted this reply: "You are too weak and must hit the gym. Or you could tell him you have AIDS, piss on yourself, then start frothing at the mouth. Whatever works!"
2020-10-19T11:53:38 < Steffanx> thanks
2020-10-19T11:54:34 < jadew> now you know how to defend yourself
2020-10-19T11:59:20 < Steffanx> Don't go outside, lock the doors. Much better
2020-10-19T12:15:44 < mawk> jadew: I have a friend that constantly carried an used syring in its pocket in case he gets assaulted
2020-10-19T12:15:52 < mawk> with the intent of saying "back up, I have aids"
2020-10-19T12:16:13 < mawk> he really looks like he has aids, with skinny face and so on
2020-10-19T12:16:18 < mawk> so it would work probably
2020-10-19T12:18:00 < mawk> it would look better with blood in the syringe but blood would clot
2020-10-19T12:18:05 < Steffanx> French...
2020-10-19T12:18:06 < mawk> maybe fake tricks blood 
2020-10-19T12:18:31 < mawk> blood with EDTA inside to prevent clotting maybe
2020-10-19T12:18:40 < mawk> or that aquarium starter liquid, would work
2020-10-19T12:20:42 < jadew> fedex just slapped a $30 charge on my package for filling the customs documentation :/
2020-10-19T12:20:47 < jadew> DHL just became the best
2020-10-19T12:26:56 < Cracki> smuggling is the only way not to get scammed
2020-10-19T12:27:44 < jadew> actually, I can't believe how much I've come to like DHL
2020-10-19T12:28:02 < jadew> they're the only ones that don't make me pay extra
2020-10-19T12:28:27 < jadew> and they're also extremely cheap lately
2020-10-19T12:28:50 < mawk> last time I used dhl for something from abroad they forgot to make me pay taxes
2020-10-19T12:28:55 < mawk> I don't remember exactly how
2020-10-19T12:29:04 < Cracki> dhl you mean, not dhl express, right?
2020-10-19T12:29:11 < Cracki> people occasionally bitch about dhl express
2020-10-19T12:29:13 < jadew> Cracki, DHL Express, sorry
2020-10-19T12:29:19 < Cracki> oh I'm surprised
2020-10-19T12:29:27 < jadew> yeah, I used to bitch about them
2020-10-19T12:29:33 < jadew> they're good guys now
2020-10-19T12:29:38 < Cracki> I guess it could depend on the path of your packets
2020-10-19T12:29:42 < mawk> I used dhl to buy cat food, 30kg package
2020-10-19T12:29:51 < mawk> they delivered it 1km from my home, didn't even try to deliver at my address
2020-10-19T12:29:57 < mawk> I had to take uber to get the thing back
2020-10-19T12:30:16 < jadew> Cracki, most deliveries to EU countries, would cost between 30 and 50 EUR
2020-10-19T12:30:16 < Cracki> lol
2020-10-19T12:30:30 < jadew> which is really good, considering they get there the next day
2020-10-19T12:30:47 < mawk> I turned on the gas chimney in the office, so if I don't answer I died of CO poisoning
2020-10-19T12:30:57 < Steffanx> Good bye mawk
2020-10-19T12:31:06 < Cracki> you should fix the CO sensor you fucked to bits
2020-10-19T12:31:13 < mawk> lol it's a CO2 sensor
2020-10-19T12:31:13 < Steffanx> There are better ways to get warm in the office mawk ;)
2020-10-19T12:31:18 < mawk> it wouldn't detect CO
2020-10-19T12:31:21 < mawk> lol Steffanx indeed
2020-10-19T12:31:25 < Cracki> :D
2020-10-19T12:32:14 < Cracki> office should invest in a CO sensor. people get the sniffled from stale air but they #Icantbreathe from CO
2020-10-19T12:32:22 < Cracki> *sniffles
2020-10-19T12:32:27 < mawk> lol
2020-10-19T12:32:29 < mawk> yeah
2020-10-19T12:32:36 < mawk> but I guess they didn't expect me to turn this thing on
2020-10-19T12:33:21 < jadew> if you feel sleepy, open an window
2020-10-19T12:33:52 < jadew> I've known people who died from CO poisoning
2020-10-19T12:33:54 < Cracki> ex-roomie did that, open the window while running an electric heater on full blast
2020-10-19T12:33:59 < jadew> *briefly known them
2020-10-19T12:33:59 < Cracki> in summer
2020-10-19T12:34:11 < jadew> lol
2020-10-19T12:34:13 < jadew> why?
2020-10-19T12:34:18 < mawk> you were a paramedic jadew ?
2020-10-19T12:34:51 < jadew> mawk, no, but I met them one or two months before they died
2020-10-19T12:34:58 < jadew> husband and wife, died in their sleep
2020-10-19T12:34:58 < Cracki> he was/is a psychopath and picked me as his victim because I tried to keep him to some simple rules like "don't leave your sofa in the hallway like that"
2020-10-19T12:35:25 < Cracki> old ppl?
2020-10-19T12:35:28 < jadew> yeah
2020-10-19T12:35:32 < Cracki> young people aren't married anymore
2020-10-19T12:35:36 < jadew> haha
2020-10-19T12:35:54 < jadew> all my friends are married
2020-10-19T12:36:04 < jadew> one is going through a divorce, but still married
2020-10-19T12:36:15 < Cracki> you are married too aren't you
2020-10-19T12:36:19 < jadew> yeah
2020-10-19T12:36:23 < Cracki> healthy society
2020-10-19T12:36:57 < mawk> I don't know
2020-10-19T12:37:03 < mawk> I'm all in for marriage as a way to derail progressists
2020-10-19T12:37:07 < jadew> yeah, wouldn't call romania progressive
2020-10-19T12:37:08 < mawk> but it's still a religious institution
2020-10-19T12:37:13 < jadew> I guess there's a balance to be had
2020-10-19T12:37:30 < jadew> mawk, it's not religious
2020-10-19T12:37:35 < mawk> what
2020-10-19T12:37:45 < jadew> it's a contract
2020-10-19T12:37:58 < jadew> you can make it religious if you want
2020-10-19T12:38:22 < mawk> yes sure right now it's a contract
2020-10-19T12:38:24 < jadew> also, people paired together before religion was a thing
2020-10-19T12:38:25 < mawk> but it has religious roots
2020-10-19T12:38:33 < mawk> yes 2000 years ago
2020-10-19T12:38:40 < Cracki> big venn diagram: culture, religion, faith
2020-10-19T12:38:43 < mawk> it's been religious for a long time
2020-10-19T12:39:05 < jadew> mawk, yeah, like common morals
2020-10-19T12:39:11 < jadew> but it doesn't mean they stem from religion
2020-10-19T12:39:25 < Cracki> no culture "grew up" without belief in the supernatural, and many cultures developed mechanisms for stability, of which monogamy is one
2020-10-19T12:39:46 < Cracki> those things can be separated tho
2020-10-19T12:40:58 < mawk> up to a century ago marriage and monogamy and all that were religious commandments
2020-10-19T12:41:15 < mawk> you can have a civilian contract alone, you don't have to marry, nowadays
2020-10-19T12:41:27 < Cracki> monogamy means her own mother will bitchslap her so you don't have to worry and can concentrate on providing for your family and contributing to society
2020-10-19T12:41:33 < Cracki> we could have that without gods
2020-10-19T12:41:50 < jadew> right, what Cracki said
2020-10-19T12:41:51 < mawk> DNA tests replace monogamy
2020-10-19T12:42:08 < jadew> I guess it's more than a mere contract, it's a socially enforced contract
2020-10-19T12:42:10 < Cracki> civilian contracts mean so little these days... the mostly mean "you lose half your worth if she wants to"
2020-10-19T12:42:30 < Cracki> no sharia police to bitchslap people around :>
2020-10-19T12:42:31 < jadew> in the sense that society around you pressures you into keeping your end of the bargain
2020-10-19T12:42:34 < mawk> you can make it so she loses everything as well, if you can make her sign lol
2020-10-19T12:42:57 < Cracki> that's a sadly nonstandard addon
2020-10-19T12:44:25 < Cracki> I wish universities had as many 3d printers as they have 2d printers. then you could "hack" them and print little chopped off head figurines
2020-10-19T12:44:33 < jadew> https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-7889503/Husband-metal-nut-attached-penis-sleep-Ukraine.html
2020-10-19T12:44:41 < mawk> my lawyer mother was very careful with her partner
2020-10-19T12:44:42 < Cracki> uhhhh
2020-10-19T12:44:47 < mawk> he got exactly 0 at the end
2020-10-19T12:44:55 < Cracki> sucks
2020-10-19T12:45:16 < Cracki> depending on who was the bread winner
2020-10-19T12:45:35 < Cracki> meme country article but no picture of nuts and bolts?
2020-10-19T12:46:03 < mawk> they blurred it
2020-10-19T12:46:04 < jadew> yeah... sorry about that
2020-10-19T12:46:51 < mawk> Cracki: he was the leech in the couple 
2020-10-19T12:46:56 < Cracki> :D
2020-10-19T12:47:52 < Cracki> no-nut-ukrainian should take revenge with shashlik skewers. I've seen things.
2020-10-19T12:48:02 < mawk> lol
2020-10-19T12:48:16 < mawk> he can buy hardware on meo.de
2020-10-19T12:48:58 < Cracki> that site doesn't look like it cares one cent about women :>
2020-10-19T12:49:04 < mawk> lol
2020-10-19T12:49:11 < mawk> you can probably adapt some of it to them
2020-10-19T12:49:25 < Cracki> lol they must have partnerships with all the power tool makers
2020-10-19T12:52:02 < Cracki> how did that dude sleep through it all, he must have been drunk as fuck to not feel the pain
2020-10-19T12:52:15 < Streaker> I don't know why this makes me laugh:  https://cdn.meo.de/29635-thickbox_default/rimming-anal-vibrator-with-remote-control-ref-2381-00.jpg
2020-10-19T12:52:23 < Cracki> lol
2020-10-19T12:53:42 < Cracki> they ought to have a "mike pence" article
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2020-10-19T13:16:08 < jadew> interesting... TNT didn't calculate VAT on shipping, even tho DHL does
2020-10-19T13:18:31 < jadew> also, not sure why the site says they're going to deliver it today, because it's not even in Romania yet
2020-10-19T13:18:50 < jadew> if they actually manage to do it by the end of the day, I will be impressed
2020-10-19T13:19:17 < jadew> they would have to pass it through customs and get it in the delivery car and to my door in < 4 hours
2020-10-19T13:20:39 < benishor> jadew: perhaps TNT shipped everything in EU and then forwarded it to your address
2020-10-19T13:20:45 < benishor> I get that from time to time
2020-10-19T13:21:20 < benishor> I usually get that when ordering from mouser
2020-10-19T13:21:28 < benishor> I don't have to fuck around with customs
2020-10-19T13:21:28 < jadew> benishor, that's possible, but I only gave them the documentation for the customs this morning
2020-10-19T13:21:42 < jadew> yeah, mouser pays for customs themselves
2020-10-19T13:21:44 < benishor> they arrive at my door quite soon
2020-10-19T13:21:54 < jadew> yeah, ~4 days
2020-10-19T13:22:24 < benishor> so, I just powered on my hf transceiver and worked some DX on 17meter
2020-10-19T13:22:26 < benishor> https://imgur.com/a/kdAgfTP
2020-10-19T13:22:35 < benishor> with only 100W. propagation rocks
2020-10-19T13:23:31 < jadew> I have a 100W station too
2020-10-19T13:23:37 < jadew> but I don't have a license
2020-10-19T13:23:39 < benishor> what brand/model?
2020-10-19T13:23:56 < benishor> well then, maybe it's time you get a license. I doubt you'll have any problems in doing so
2020-10-19T13:24:00 < benishor> and ham radio is really cool
2020-10-19T13:24:32 < jadew> icom 756 pro
2020-10-19T13:24:51 < jadew> I also have a FT-100
2020-10-19T13:25:12 < jadew> thought about installing that in the car, but never did
2020-10-19T13:25:28 < jadew> if I get a license, then we can talk to each other :P
2020-10-19T13:26:42 < benishor> I have an ft-100
2020-10-19T13:26:56 < benishor> sure we can talk, although I would rather use CW most of the time :)
2020-10-19T13:27:00 < benishor> coded language suits me better
2020-10-19T13:27:22 < benishor> btw, you should really consider getting a license soon
2020-10-19T13:27:28 < jadew> why soon?
2020-10-19T13:27:36 < benishor> the sooner the better. don't let that equipment waste
2020-10-19T13:28:11 < benishor> especially since I saw you're into RF, selling all those little amp kits and such
2020-10-19T13:28:27 < benishor> being a ham radio is really nice
2020-10-19T13:28:41 < benishor> and there's quite a community there in bucharest
2020-10-19T13:29:05 < benishor> no need to be fat, single and ready to mingle
2020-10-19T13:30:36 < jadew> I guess I never got to listen to any interesting discussions
2020-10-19T13:31:33 < jadew> which band do you recommend I listen to?
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2020-10-19T13:33:48 < benishor> jadew: depends on what you consider as interesting
2020-10-19T13:34:01 < benishor> romanians usually hang around 3.750MHz or so
2020-10-19T13:34:12 < benishor> (SSB)
2020-10-19T13:34:39 < jadew> well, I would like to hear radio related discussions
2020-10-19T13:34:56 < jadew> electronics, projects, etc
2020-10-19T13:34:59 < Cracki> you could make radio related discussions/monologues
2020-10-19T13:35:04 < jadew> haha
2020-10-19T13:35:11 < Cracki> text to speech of ##stm32 maybe *hides*
2020-10-19T13:35:38 < Cracki> ice breaker: RF burns
2020-10-19T13:35:39 < benishor> there's also the romanian QTC (official news in romanian ham radio) broadcasted on 3.65MHz every wednesday
2020-10-19T13:36:00 < Cracki> I'm sure people love to tell their war stories of when they fried their fingers
2020-10-19T13:36:12 < benishor> at around 16:00 GMT iirc
2020-10-19T13:36:28 < benishor> people usually talk about new equipment they have, antennas and so on
2020-10-19T13:36:47 < jadew> benishor, thanks, I'll set a reminder to tune in
2020-10-19T13:36:53 < benishor> for me, the cool thing about ham radio is making contacts with rudimentary equipment which goes as farther as possible
2020-10-19T13:36:57 < plandemic> people still talk... like wit their voices?
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2020-10-19T13:37:15 < jadew> plandemic, benishor doesn't
2020-10-19T13:37:17 < benishor> plandemic: yeah, SSB in order to reduce bandwidth
2020-10-19T13:37:40 < jadew> he's doing morse code
2020-10-19T13:37:41 < plandemic> you must be rich af
2020-10-19T13:37:57 < benishor> why rich?
2020-10-19T13:38:15 < benishor> morse code needs the easiest tx: you just turn on/off a carrier
2020-10-19T13:38:18 < plandemic> because we're in grand solar minimum and the bands are dead
2020-10-19T13:38:41 < plandemic> anyone on ssb has flex 6700s and steppirs from their $500M mcmansions :P
2020-10-19T13:38:41 < benishor> yes, bands are close to dead but morse code gets you far enough
2020-10-19T13:39:14 < jadew> benishor, what station are you using?
2020-10-19T13:39:32 < benishor> FT-100, just like the one you said you have
2020-10-19T13:39:44 < jadew> ah, thought you're using something else for CW
2020-10-19T13:39:46 < benishor> but mine has the DSP chip added, so technically it's a D model
2020-10-19T13:40:00 < benishor> I'm also working my own station (own design/implementtion)
2020-10-19T13:40:01 < jadew> hmm, I think mine has it too
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2020-10-19T13:40:11 < jadew> it has a mod (very visible)
2020-10-19T13:40:15 < benishor> that's why I got started with stm32 in the first place. arduino wasn't enough
2020-10-19T13:40:19 < benishor> btw jadew: https://www.radioamator.ro/info.php?id=955
2020-10-19T13:40:32 < plandemic> i use a fully decked out & modded kx-1 that nobody can hear :D
2020-10-19T13:40:33 < jadew> and I'm pretty sure it has some DSP functions
2020-10-19T13:40:47 < benishor> oh, kx-1. that was my dream rig for quite a while
2020-10-19T13:40:58 < benishor> but I was too poor to be able to buy one :)
2020-10-19T13:41:06 < benishor> I bet the kx-1 can get you places
2020-10-19T13:41:10 < plandemic> the rotary encoder on it is pretty much toast but it still tunes it's just touchy
2020-10-19T13:41:12 < benishor> all you need is a proper antenna
2020-10-19T13:41:26 < plandemic> yeah all i have are homemade magloops. they work when they work.
2020-10-19T13:41:46 < benishor> magloops rock. did you go for circle or octogon/square?
2020-10-19T13:42:05 < plandemic> i use copper hvac tubing in circles
2020-10-19T13:42:11 < benishor> efficiency increases as you get closer to circle
2020-10-19T13:42:18 < plandemic> but too poor for vaccum variable :)
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2020-10-19T13:42:23 < jadew> "Data limită de depunere a dosarelor este 13.10.2020 (data înregistrării la ANCOM)." I missed it
2020-10-19T13:42:25 < benishor> heheh, air spaced one?
2020-10-19T13:42:47 < benishor> jadew: damn, didn't read through. I'm sure you can still subscribe if you contact them
2020-10-19T13:42:52 < plandemic> yes i tried making my own caps too both the trombone style and with plates but i don't have a laser cutter
2020-10-19T13:42:55 < benishor> either that or wait for the next session
2020-10-19T13:42:58 < plandemic> trying to cut plates by hand was fun
2020-10-19T13:43:12 < benishor> they have regular sessions once every two months or so?
2020-10-19T13:43:34 < jadew> how much do you have to pay per month to keep your license?
2020-10-19T13:43:38 < jadew> per year
2020-10-19T13:43:49 < plandemic> jadew: in the US it's $50 every 10 years now
2020-10-19T13:43:56 < jadew> ah, that's cheap
2020-10-19T13:44:02 < plandemic> used to be free
2020-10-19T13:44:23 < plandemic> though i'm racing the clock on mine
2020-10-19T13:44:28 < plandemic> i can renew but i can't upgrade
2020-10-19T13:45:56 < plandemic> still undecided if i'm going to drop the license for good or not
2020-10-19T13:46:03 < plandemic> made it almost 30 years licensed
2020-10-19T13:48:02 < jadew> hmm, looks like you can transmit in any band, regardless of the class
2020-10-19T13:48:10 < jadew> the only difference is the maximum power
2020-10-19T13:48:20 < plandemic> each country has different rules yes
2020-10-19T13:48:58 < plandemic> in the USA the license class determines the bands and/or modes you can use on said bands.
2020-10-19T13:50:02 < plandemic> i think it's kind of antiquated because we don't really use bands anymore. we use "channels"
2020-10-19T13:50:15 < jadew> benishor, are there any people in romania interested in the X and above bands?
2020-10-19T13:51:10 < jadew> plandemic, it's possible that it's still like that because you have many operators and they have to segregate them somehow?
2020-10-19T13:52:01 < plandemic> jadew: yes and no. these days the majority of operators on HF are doing digital modes (one digital mode in particular)
2020-10-19T13:52:17 < plandemic> unless there is a contest
2020-10-19T13:54:33 < plandemic> it might be a much different 'local' experience elsewhere
2020-10-19T13:55:36 < plandemic> for USA, it is digital on HF, jr. police on VHF/UHF
2020-10-19T13:56:04 < plandemic> i stay in my little cw bubble :)
2020-10-19T13:56:19 < plandemic> the people on cw are always the best
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2020-10-19T14:25:07 < benishor> jadew: no cost in .ro whatsoever
2020-10-19T14:25:17 < benishor> for maintaining the license
2020-10-19T14:25:35 < benishor> plandemic: what's your callsign?
2020-10-19T14:28:17 < karlp> hub detects as LS, found a short from vbus to d-, fixed it, now it detects as fs, but still won't enumerate.
2020-10-19T14:28:20  * karlp pokes more
2020-10-19T14:37:10  * benishor peeks over karlp's shoulder
2020-10-19T14:41:16 < karlp> hrm. still trying to decide whether it's assembly problem or fundamental design/layout problem.
2020-10-19T14:41:56 < plandemic> benishor: special event station C4NCL
2020-10-19T14:42:05 < englishman> did you hand-assemble
2020-10-19T14:42:11 < zyp> karlp, hub itself doesn't enumerate?
2020-10-19T14:43:32 < oz4ga> c4 thats cyprus isn't it?
2020-10-19T14:45:22 < benishor> this one is murrica
2020-10-19T14:45:27 < plandemic> lol no j/k
2020-10-19T14:45:28 < benishor> Citizens for the North Canton Library
2020-10-19T14:45:37 < benishor> much like murricans pimp out their plates :)
2020-10-19T14:45:44 < plandemic> i can't give my call because i'm cancelled
2020-10-19T14:45:46 < plandemic> lol
2020-10-19T14:46:38 < plandemic> they're gonna jack it eventually once they link up my innanet conduct
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2020-10-19T14:51:01 < karlp> zyp:yeah, hub itself.
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2020-10-19T14:51:22 < karlp> first board almost definitely had assembly errors, so I made up a new one with _just_ the bareminimum to get the hub enumerated
2020-10-19T14:51:44 < karlp> not it at leaste _detects_ it, but fails to enumerate.
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2020-10-19T15:01:01 < karlp> think the scrystal's weird.  one side goes to 1.7V flat after plug in, then drops to zero, and then both sideas are at 0.
2020-10-19T15:01:06 < karlp> no clock isnt' going to work very well.
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2020-10-19T15:14:29 < karlp> hrm. probing clock on power up shows it at 1.7, oscillates, then shrinks down to 1.5 or so then turns off to ground. 
2020-10-19T15:17:22 < BrainDamage> great, stuck at home until sunday, one of the people I was nearby on last friday tested positive
2020-10-19T15:17:28 < srk> fuck, my code segfaults if initialization is not in its own freertos task :| and I've removed the wrapper few months ago to not have two idle tasks so I can suspend 
2020-10-19T15:18:45 < srk> aaah 'The task can delete itself by calling vTaskDelete( NULL );'
2020-10-19T15:20:07 < mawk> why does it segfault though
2020-10-19T15:20:43 < benishor> karlp: caps?
2020-10-19T15:20:45 < srk> good question, memory pressure of some sort
2020-10-19T15:21:20 < srk> like there's stack corruption happening for the init task
2020-10-19T15:21:24 < srk> init code
2020-10-19T15:21:45 < BrainDamage> karlp: is the oscillation amplitude constant?
2020-10-19T15:22:03 < srk> I would prefer if it failed earlier then after loading and starting it on mcu
2020-10-19T15:22:25 < BrainDamage> it sounds like as it warms up either the gain goes down or the losses go up
2020-10-19T15:23:31 < BrainDamage> easy test would be to swap the crystal, perhaps put it in a dedicated oscllator, you only need a not gate to test it
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2020-10-19T15:31:46 < karlp> I recalculatd and switched from 12pf caps to 8pf caps, on the 8pf crystal, that wasns't it.
2020-10-19T15:32:12 < karlp> BrainDamage: it tapers off gradually, then dissipates entirely.
2020-10-19T15:32:13 < benishor> got a spare crystal for testing?
2020-10-19T15:32:23 < karlp> yeah, that's fine, 
2020-10-19T15:32:39 < benishor> so it's the crystal per-se
2020-10-19T15:32:46 < BrainDamage> tapers off gradually means a overdamped system
2020-10-19T15:33:08 < BrainDamage> so either the crystal is too lossy or the amp doesn't have enough gain
2020-10-19T15:36:51 < karlp> can I find specs from the part what it can drive?
2020-10-19T15:37:18 < GyrosGeier> oof
2020-10-19T15:37:33 < GyrosGeier> triggering a timer from a comparator output is difficult
2020-10-19T15:41:05 < GyrosGeier> I can route COMP2 internally to TIM1 CH1
2020-10-19T15:41:15 < GyrosGeier> can I also use that to trigger TIM1?
2020-10-19T15:42:43 < jpa-> yeah, set trigger in slave mode control register to either TI1 edge detector or filtered TI1
2020-10-19T15:43:01 < GyrosGeier> nice
2020-10-19T15:43:16 < GyrosGeier> filtered TI1 sounds like exactly what I need
2020-10-19T15:43:35 < GyrosGeier> I mean, I'm totally wasting the best timer I have on latching a signal after filtering
2020-10-19T15:44:27 < jpa-> it seems like on most parts you can route COMP2 to TIM3 CH1 also, if you want
2020-10-19T15:46:05 < GyrosGeier> I have an F301C8T, so no TIM3
2020-10-19T15:46:45 < GyrosGeier> basically what I'm doing is detecting an overcurrent with COMP2, and latching it to generate a "power off" signal
2020-10-19T15:47:04 < GyrosGeier> when the power is off, the overcurrent goes away, hence the latch
2020-10-19T15:47:24 < jpa-> well, on STM32F301, it looks like you can put it to TIM2 CH4 also
2020-10-19T15:47:55 < GyrosGeier> and the best implementation I can think of is a timer that sits at 0, waits for trigger and outputs the "power off" signal with an output compare >= 1
2020-10-19T15:48:07 < jpa-> sounds reasonable
2020-10-19T15:50:04 < GyrosGeier> wait
2020-10-19T15:50:55  * GyrosGeier gets a headache
2020-10-19T15:51:23 < GyrosGeier> I also need a blanking signal for COMP2 from a timer
2020-10-19T15:52:39 < GyrosGeier> there needs to be a tool that lets me describe what I need and that does the technology mapping for me
2020-10-19T15:53:07 < jpa-> a mapping tool would be useless because the underlying chip is not as flexible as an FPGA
2020-10-19T15:53:11  * GyrosGeier feels the urgent need to shave a yak
2020-10-19T15:53:12 < jpa-> it would just say "cannot map your requirements"
2020-10-19T15:54:20 < GyrosGeier> the tool would be valuable because it's not as flexible
2020-10-19T15:54:38 < mawk> a yacc, please
2020-10-19T15:55:39 < BrainDamage> karlp: is it just a crystal or an oscillator boxed?
2020-10-19T15:55:39 < mawk> you like clowncore Steffanx ?
2020-10-19T15:56:00 < Steffanx> Doesnt ring a bell
2020-10-19T15:56:22 < mawk> it has -core in it so you know you love it
2020-10-19T15:56:32 < mawk> it's hardcore techno with circus melody
2020-10-19T15:56:35 < BrainDamage> nitecore
2020-10-19T15:57:15 < karlp> BrainDamage: it's just a crystal.
2020-10-19T15:57:24 < karlp> so, wired a funcgen to the clkin terminal
2020-10-19T15:57:31 < karlp> enumerates beautifully: https://paste.jvnv.net/view/a6KO6
2020-10-19T15:57:38 < karlp> https://lcsc.com/product-detail/SMD-Crystal-Resonators_YL-Failong-Crystal-3S24000252_C431156.html is the crystal
2020-10-19T15:58:05 < karlp> have I baked myself a situation where I need the Rs/Rp resistors or something
2020-10-19T15:58:20 < karlp> I don't hve any other 24MHz crystals around, just this one unfortunately.
2020-10-19T15:58:45 < mawk> so remove crystal, tape function get to your board, ship it like this
2020-10-19T15:58:49 < mawk> say that size specs got a bit out of hand
2020-10-19T15:58:54 < BrainDamage> esr is in the datashit
2020-10-19T15:58:54 < mawk> function gen*
2020-10-19T15:58:59 < jpa-> "Faillong crystals" and you wonder why it is failing?
2020-10-19T15:59:02 < BrainDamage> n°13
2020-10-19T15:59:47 < karlp> I can see the esr number, but not what to do with it.
2020-10-19T16:00:03 < BrainDamage> put it in Rs of your simulation
2020-10-19T16:00:28 < BrainDamage> and then Rp is your load
2020-10-19T16:00:36 < karlp> the usb2517 doens't mention anything about the load requirements of the crystal other than Crystal: Parallel Resonant, Fundamental Mode, 24 MHz 350ppm.
2020-10-19T16:00:50 < jpa-> 40 ohm ESR seems pretty normal
2020-10-19T16:00:54 < karlp> I'm going to need to do a real sim now aren't I...
2020-10-19T16:02:56 < BrainDamage> not super necessary, IF you know the transconductance of the clock amplifier
2020-10-19T16:03:07 < jpa-> nah, just pick up some other crystal to check if that one is just crappy
2020-10-19T16:03:13 < BrainDamage> also that
2020-10-19T16:03:16 < jpa-> no need to assume that the specs are anything close to the actual product
2020-10-19T16:03:49 < BrainDamage> it could just be a bad part by production or by soldering
2020-10-19T16:04:05 < karlp> Iv'e tried two, could try more I ugess.
2020-10-19T16:04:08 < karlp> got 8 more...
2020-10-19T16:04:20 < jpa-> i mean, pick a different model
2020-10-19T16:04:27 < karlp> or, now that I know it enumerates at least, and there's nothing absolutely busted,
2020-10-19T16:04:34 < karlp> just order different ones, try them out later...
2020-10-19T16:04:37 < BrainDamage> probably all by the same batch will be equally defective
2020-10-19T16:05:34 < karlp> I tell you what, a bad crystal was _not_ what I was expecting to be one of my failures here :)
2020-10-19T16:05:46 < BrainDamage> as for a simple calc in the case you'll ever know the transconductance of the amp, 1/transconductance >= crystal + load
2020-10-19T16:06:06 < karlp> is transconductance ever specified in part datasheets?
2020-10-19T16:06:23 < BrainDamage> unless it's a dedicated clock ic, no
2020-10-19T16:06:39 < BrainDamage> but maybe you're lucky:P
2020-10-19T16:07:07 < karlp> yeah, it's not in this docu :)
2020-10-19T16:08:02 < jpa-> karlp: USB2517 datasheet does suggest 1Mohm parallel resistor
2020-10-19T16:08:39 < Steffanx> enjoy mawk https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s7vwpg6dlyo&t=8s
2020-10-19T16:08:49 < Steffanx> oops skip the &t=8
2020-10-19T16:12:03 < jpa-> karlp: might be also worth it to measure that you don't just have some weird short-circuit on one of the crystal pins or something
2020-10-19T16:12:50 < karlp> well, that was what I'd done first, but can try again.
2020-10-19T16:13:28 < karlp> might try putting a crystal back down, with a 1M on top of it.
2020-10-19T16:14:43 < jpa-> https://www.nxp.com/docs/en/application-note/AN3208.pdf  the formula in section 6 is funny
2020-10-19T16:16:05 < jpa-> it gives me 600µW drive power in your case, but that crystal can only handle 10µW and most other crystals can only handle 100µW anyway
2020-10-19T16:17:17 < Streaker> does drive power equal power dissipated in the crystal?
2020-10-19T16:17:18 < mawk> "rough"
2020-10-19T16:17:37 < jpa-> Streaker: AFAIK yes
2020-10-19T16:17:48 < mawk> they say yes in the pdf Streaker 
2020-10-19T16:18:26 < BrainDamage> V^2C^2Hz^2·Ohm is not W
2020-10-19T16:18:38 < mawk> isn't it just dimensional analysis they did?
2020-10-19T16:18:46 < mawk> to show you what you control
2020-10-19T16:18:51 < jpa-> BrainDamage: for me it worked out
2020-10-19T16:19:04 < jpa-> 2 × 40ohm × (pi × 24MHz × 3.3V × (8pF + 3pF))^2 = 599 µW according to qalculate
2020-10-19T16:19:17 < jpa-> BrainDamage: maybe you forgot the capacitance?
2020-10-19T16:19:38 < Streaker> why is there an ohm term ?
2020-10-19T16:19:41 < PaulFertser> hm, probably you have a siggen handy and you can just feed the freq from it?
2020-10-19T16:19:42 < BrainDamage> damn, I wrote C in place of F
2020-10-19T16:19:45 < BrainDamage> I am a moron
2020-10-19T16:19:58 < BrainDamage> then used C as if it was coulomb
2020-10-19T16:20:20 < BrainDamage> with farad it's dimensionally sound
2020-10-19T16:21:27 < jpa-> looks like STM32 only drives the crystal with 2Vp-p, so 1V over the crystal
2020-10-19T16:22:23 < jpa-> so the 8MHz stlink crystal dissipates 24µW and is ok, but if that formula is correct then many of my 24MHz crystal circuits are slowly damaging the crystal
2020-10-19T16:23:06 < jpa-> which would kind of explain why we sometimes see those weird series resistors
2020-10-19T16:24:42 < jpa-> but also if karlp's crystal can only handle 10µW and he's driving it at over 10 times the maximum power, could explain failures; the 10µW limit is significantly lower than the 200µW absolute maximum and 100µW recommended that e.g. seiko specifies for a same size crystal
2020-10-19T16:30:30 < mawk> it's just dimensional analysis I think jpa- 
2020-10-19T16:30:33 < mawk> don't take it at its word
2020-10-19T16:30:44 < mawk> they just wanted to show which parameters influence the dissipated power
2020-10-19T16:31:52 < BrainDamage> 2pifsin(2pif) is the integral of the amplitude signal, which has for worst case 2pif, energy to charge a cap is 0.5CV^2, but it's charged and discarged twice in a period, so CV^2 worth of energy has to flow and RComega is the lowpass effect on it
2020-10-19T16:34:13 < BrainDamage> mmm, I'm off by a factor of 2
2020-10-19T16:34:39 < BrainDamage> but at least in order of magnitude, it sounds sane
2020-10-19T16:36:07 < mawk> what's your favorite clustering algorithm BrainDamage ?
2020-10-19T16:36:10 < mawk> for 2D point clouds
2020-10-19T16:36:49 < BrainDamage> support vector machines
2020-10-19T16:37:17 < mawk> is it ML
2020-10-19T16:38:00 < BrainDamage> if you have a learning phase, yes
2020-10-19T16:38:09 < BrainDamage> but the transform can be fixed
2020-10-19T16:38:56 < BrainDamage> or you can use support-vector clustering, which auto-learns unsupervised data
2020-10-19T16:39:47 < mawk> I have points from a shitty radar sensor, and I'd like to cluster nearby points
2020-10-19T16:39:59 < mawk> for now I took the first random algorithm I found, DBSCAN, but it has too many parameters that needs tweaking
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2020-10-19T16:40:16 < BrainDamage> a SVM attemps to bisect the k space using a line, after applying a transform
2020-10-19T16:40:18 < Cracki> do you have labels? SVMs like to have labels
2020-10-19T16:40:23 < Cracki> otherwise kmeans or meanshift
2020-10-19T16:40:26 < mawk> minimum cluster of points, maximum neighborhood distance ε, all that depends on the shittiness of the sensor on that particular day
2020-10-19T16:40:31 < mawk> or if there's a spider in front of the lense
2020-10-19T16:41:05 < mawk> it's only binary classification with SVM?
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2020-10-19T16:41:27 < Cracki> you can have multi class SVM
2020-10-19T16:41:50 < Cracki> it's not clustering tho, it's classification
2020-10-19T16:41:54 < mawk> if I had labels the points would be clustered already, I mean I want to cluster them based on some metric between them, probably just euclidean distance
2020-10-19T16:41:54 < Cracki> related but different things
2020-10-19T16:42:57 < Cracki> dunno if there's something smart for that. I'd stuff them in some binary space partition or whatever, and do nearest neighbor query for every point
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2020-10-19T16:43:36 < BrainDamage> yeah, start with k nearest neigh, doesn't scale well, but it gives you a rough idea on the quality of your data
2020-10-19T16:44:04 < Cracki> that oughta be O(n * log(n)) for all the NN assignments and then you'd have to rewrite labels which should be O(n)
2020-10-19T16:44:19 < Cracki> i guess that can be done together in one pass
2020-10-19T16:44:47 < Cracki> or maybe not. connected components does such a labeling and it needs relabeling afterwards to join sets
2020-10-19T16:45:53 < Cracki> k=1 nearest neighbor would ignore distance. maximum radius is a "range query", both can be done together too
2020-10-19T16:46:03 < Cracki> k=anything but you probably only care about k=1
2020-10-19T16:48:47 < Cracki> say, the SVM I know is a linear classifier, i.e. comes up with a hyperplane that separates the two classes. I also know about kernels, but those were taught to us as a human using judgment to transform the space such that it becomes separable. are there SVM approaches that take a parametrized mapping/"kernel" and learn these parameters too?
2020-10-19T16:49:33 < BrainDamage> since you have a treshold for limit on distance, you don't even need the linear distance and an use distance^2, avoiding sqrt
2020-10-19T16:49:55 < BrainDamage> yes, kernel can be learned
2020-10-19T16:49:56 < Cracki> eh sure that's not warping the space though
2020-10-19T16:49:59 < Cracki> ic
2020-10-19T16:50:31 < Cracki> WP says the mapping is done into a "much higher dimensional" space, so I guess one throws a whole battery of mappings at the data, and see which one the SVM decides works best
2020-10-19T16:52:58 < BrainDamage> if you take your kernel as (series of) transformation matrixes, you can gradient descent those just like any other param
2020-10-19T16:54:16 < karlp> jpa-: is Cs (shunt cap) the "board parastic cap" ? or where did you get the 3pf from?
2020-10-19T16:54:32 < BrainDamage> ofc if you have insight on the data, rather than completely random matrixes, you can have a function that defines them, fixing the cell params, this speeds up immensely the convergence speed
2020-10-19T16:55:47 < BrainDamage> because eg you know that the problem has a circular symmetry so a rotation matrix with angle and distance to tweak has dimensionality 2 than a 2x2 completely random matrix
2020-10-19T16:56:02 < BrainDamage> which has cardinality 4
2020-10-19T16:57:37 < Cracki> makes sense
2020-10-19T17:00:52 < jpa-> karlp: "Shunt capacitance" from datasheet
2020-10-19T17:01:25 < jpa-> mawk: if it is only dimensional, why bother with 2x and pi?
2020-10-19T17:02:28 < mawk> that's what I'd do to give at least the right order of magnitude if it was needed I guess; but otherwise I don't know why they say it's a rough formula if it weren't just dimensional analysis
2020-10-19T17:03:16 < jpa-> mawk: well, one reason would be that Vdd is not a very good estimate of the voltage over the crystal; but one can measure a more accurate value
2020-10-19T17:04:40 < jpa-> karlp: overdriving the crystal would match your observed behavior of "works fine at first and then stops oscillating"; i guess you could try putting a series resistor, but I'm not sure how large one
2020-10-19T17:07:28 < jpa-> karlp: some rough calculations suggest 10 kohm series resistor between xtal_out pin and crystal, but not sure if that is ridicuously large or not
2020-10-19T17:07:52 < BrainDamage> can always add more in parallel to reduce it
2020-10-19T17:08:15 < BrainDamage> good old tower of smd resistors
2020-10-19T17:55:27 < GyrosGeier> ow
2020-10-19T17:55:51 < GyrosGeier> I just noticed I built a very elaborate machine for writing zeros to memory with DMA
2020-10-19T17:56:16 < GyrosGeier> if I start a timer with a trigger and use the same signal to capture the counter, that is kind of silly
2020-10-19T18:02:21 < karlp> jpa-: re shunt cap, thanks, missed that in the datasheet.
2020-10-19T18:03:49 < karlp> 10k series is way less fun to greenwire
2020-10-19T18:26:59 < jpa-> cut trace, solder 0402 on it?
2020-10-19T18:35:34 < karlp> yeah yeah. I'm just going through the maths again to see how you got 10k :)
2020-10-19T18:35:59 < karlp> went through the first page of results on lcsc for 24MHz crystals in 3225, mine is the _only_ one that's not 100uW or better.
2020-10-19T18:36:51 < jpa-> i calculated 1/(8pF * 24MHz) to arrive at 5.2kohm for the effective impedance of the load caps, and on the other hand tried that cutting the voltage to 1/3th should bring power to 1/9th
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2020-10-19T18:38:56 < karlp> I like the notes in that nxp doc though, "Crystal overdrive is very
2020-10-19T18:38:58 < karlp> unlikely with modern ICs because they now operate at very low voltages.
2020-10-19T18:39:31 < karlp> Rs basically just makes a divider, dropping voltage over it, yeah.
2020-10-19T18:39:37 < karlp> ahhhh. the things we do
2020-10-19T18:39:52 < jpa-> karlp: that's only for colpitts though, pierce loads the crystal more
2020-10-19T18:40:02 < Streaker> could it be a typo? another crystal from the same manufacturer: https://datasheet.lcsc.com/szlcsc/1912111437_YL-Failong-Crystal-3S24000333_C427553.pdf
2020-10-19T18:42:36 < mawk> best race condition is lethal race condition: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Therac-25
2020-10-19T18:44:05 < Cracki> lol who wrote that code
2020-10-19T18:44:16 < mawk> some canadians apparently
2020-10-19T18:44:22 < mawk> with a french codebase
2020-10-19T18:44:40 < mawk> but most likely very stubborn people that couldn't get enough of themselves
2020-10-19T18:44:59 < mawk> after one death they could've checked the code, they didn't have to wait for more
2020-10-19T18:46:40 < mawk> best line: Previous models had hardware interlocks to prevent such faults, but the Therac-25 had removed them, depending instead on software checks for safety.
2020-10-19T18:47:13 < plandemic> to think now they write code to kill people who don't participate in society. we've achieved so much.
2020-10-19T18:47:15 < Cracki> yes because "we'll do it in post" looks more high tech
2020-10-19T18:47:32 < Cracki> fuck proper engineering, let's fix it in software
2020-10-19T18:48:06 < plandemic> Cracki posts something on social media that trips a bunch of NPC triggered meters
2020-10-19T18:48:18 < plandemic> next thing he knows, his car's steering wheel stops working when he's on autobahn
2020-10-19T18:48:28 < Cracki> oh no
2020-10-19T18:50:30 < plandemic> you only get told to "resume viewing" 3 times before: "Subject unresponsive to ads. Marked for termination."
2020-10-19T18:51:53 < plandemic> that's why you can't present opposing ideas to the NPCs
2020-10-19T18:52:43 < plandemic> it increases energy costs for companies whos algos have to work harder to steer them back on track to nominal consumption patterns when you do that.
2020-10-19T18:52:51 < plandemic> and you shall be punished for it.
2020-10-19T18:52:57 < jpa-> Once upon a time, there was a bunch of people who called themselves "player controlled". They thought they mattered. They didn't.
2020-10-19T18:52:58 < karlp> Streaker: might be, but even 100uW is still well below the calculated 600uW that was calculated...
2020-10-19T18:53:18 < karlp> Streaker: given how common the "100uW" is, I wsa thinking maybe a typo too.
2020-10-19T18:53:41 < mawk> do not deny your belonging jpa- 
2020-10-19T18:53:48 < mawk> your place is with us
2020-10-19T18:53:59 < mawk> in the Pantheon of clairvoyant minds
2020-10-19T18:54:33 < jpa-> not really, i live on autopilot mostly
2020-10-19T18:55:24 < Steffanx> Dont crash, jpa- 
2020-10-19T18:55:36 < karlp> ok, well, 10k doesn't work :)
2020-10-19T18:55:43 < karlp> let's scope it again, see if it's "better"
2020-10-19T18:55:57 < Steffanx> And *poof* it works
2020-10-19T18:56:07 < Steffanx> Magic touch of a probe
2020-10-19T18:56:20 < jpa-> also knowing the peak-to-peak voltage level at the beginning would be fun
2020-10-19T18:59:53 < karlp> well, I don't get a clock now at all, but it takes longer to drop away.
2020-10-19T18:59:59 < karlp> it was abou 1.7Vp2p earlier.
2020-10-19T19:00:15 < karlp> I guess I need a new crystal though again, perhaps the one I took off is "blown" from overdriving.
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2020-10-19T19:33:50 < mawk> Steffanx https://youtu.be/Tpg5OJNfef4 1990s hardcore
2020-10-19T19:34:18 < mawk> it's in a hellraiser or thunderdome compilation iirc
2020-10-19T19:34:51 < Steffanx> Better go for happy hardcore then
2020-10-19T19:34:55 < mawk> :(
2020-10-19T19:34:59 < mawk> no
2020-10-19T19:35:02 < Steffanx> YES
2020-10-19T19:35:09 < mawk> listen to my boy dee
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2020-10-19T19:35:29 < mawk> getting cold out there
2020-10-19T19:36:00 < Steffanx> 12C is still warm enough
2020-10-19T19:36:13 < mawk> maybe
2020-10-19T19:36:17 < mawk> but my body is weird
2020-10-19T19:36:29 < mawk> extremities have too much vasoconstriction
2020-10-19T19:36:35 < mawk> cannot use my fingers anymore
2020-10-19T19:36:54 < mawk> they're all white and blood less
2020-10-19T19:37:07 < mawk> this condition has a name but I forgot
2020-10-19T19:37:18 < Steffanx> lolwut?
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2020-10-19T19:37:42 < Steffanx> is this something you get after using weird drugs?
2020-10-19T19:37:48 < mawk> no
2020-10-19T19:37:53 < mawk> it's always like this
2020-10-19T19:38:00 < mawk> but it's harmless
2020-10-19T19:39:31 < jpa-> it's valkosormisuus in finnish, literally "white fingers"
2020-10-19T19:39:32 < Streaker> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Raynaud_syndrome
2020-10-19T19:40:00 < Steffanx> Lol jpa- 
2020-10-19T19:40:00 < mawk> ah yes
2020-10-19T19:41:01 < mawk> apparently nicotine does it
2020-10-19T19:41:02 < mawk> lol
2020-10-19T19:41:07 < mawk> I'm not quitting
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2020-10-19T19:41:37 < Steffanx> lol they are THAT white. that's scary
2020-10-19T19:41:44 < jpa-> mawk: you smoke? why is your player doing that to you?
2020-10-19T19:41:52 < mawk> lol
2020-10-19T19:42:06 < mawk> just ecig jpa- 
2020-10-19T19:42:21 < mawk> yes that white Steffanx 
2020-10-19T19:43:10 < plandemic> ecigs are just as bad
2020-10-19T19:43:29 < Steffanx> life is bad.
2020-10-19T19:44:07 < plandemic> ecigs are so bad, the american tobacco companies are saying that vaping causes you to have toxic metals in your lungs. you should be smoking cigarettes instead.
2020-10-19T19:45:10 < plandemic> Steffanx: in just a few months i will be 1 year nicotine free. no smoking no vaping nothing.
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2020-10-19T19:46:26 < plandemic> do you know how many stm32s i have bought since having the extra money?
2020-10-19T19:46:35 < Steffanx> 0
2020-10-19T19:46:48 < Steffanx> some vapers have an stm32 right?
2020-10-19T19:46:58 < jpa-> whenever i see Streaker's nick, i think it is Steffanx naked; but then it turns out it is somebody else - life is bad indeed
2020-10-19T19:47:02 < plandemic> exactly. because the overlords found out i freed up $300/mo and came in like vulters
2020-10-19T19:47:09 < plandemic> vultures rather
2020-10-19T19:47:44 < Streaker> I'm sure Steffanx will oblige if you ask nicely
2020-10-19T19:48:03 < plandemic> they were like "NPC #5959531584715 has quit smoking. Sue him."
2020-10-19T19:48:21 < Steffanx> yes, for jpa- sure
2020-10-19T19:48:43 < Steffanx> but in the sauna, because then its appropriate
2020-10-19T19:48:46 < plandemic> so instead of quitting smoking and getting some health and dental stuff taken care of, i was sued for 5+ year old medical debt.
2020-10-19T19:48:47 < plandemic> see how that works?
2020-10-19T19:49:00 < plandemic> the algorithms are designed to kill off the undesirables
2020-10-19T19:49:55 < plandemic> a big red blinking ANSI thing popped up on some screen somewhere and was like "subject has attempted to reduce risk of disease and improve overall health - SHUT IT DOWN"
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2020-10-19T19:50:46 < Steffanx> plandemic ... debt is debt right?
2020-10-19T19:50:52 < Steffanx> You must have known it was there
2020-10-19T19:51:07 < plandemic> Steffanx: in the US the odds of being collected on for medical debt are pretty much 0
2020-10-19T19:51:56 < plandemic> you basically have to piss them off somehow... like by attempting to reduce your burden on society's pocket by getting healthy.
2020-10-19T19:52:22 < plandemic> then they're like "oh... he's trying to unhook our talons. hit him with what he owes on the way out, johnny!"
2020-10-19T19:52:53 < Steffanx> i bet your other label does make some alarms go of
2020-10-19T19:53:43 < plandemic> this lawsuit set me back but i'm going to have it taken care of in a couple more weeks - just in time to go on a spending spree of all the necessary items for covid-20
2020-10-19T19:54:14 < plandemic> i was expecting to have all that stuff taken care of before the election so i wouldn't be having to swim with the rest of the fishies to get my bread ration.
2020-10-19T19:54:29 < plandemic> hoping i can squeeze in just in time to gather all the supplies for winter
2020-10-19T19:55:42 < plandemic> Steffanx: in reality it never would have happened for it not for those stimulus checks they gave us
2020-10-19T19:56:59 < plandemic> got $1200 stimulus check. 2 days later got sued for $1200
2020-10-19T19:57:25 < Steffanx> stimulus check WTF?
2020-10-19T19:57:33 < Steffanx> Anyway, better get your new  Pi Compute Module 4 with PCIE
2020-10-19T19:57:44 < plandemic> why would i do that?
2020-10-19T19:57:59 < plandemic> i already have a pi4 i don't use
2020-10-19T19:58:49 < qyx> waht, pi cm4?
2020-10-19T19:59:00 < Steffanx> sI
2020-10-19T19:59:33 < plandemic> oh this is juicy
2020-10-19T20:00:05 < plandemic> they finally have an external antenna option via an onboard electronic switch so you don't have to add components and shit
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2020-10-19T20:10:06 < GyrosGeier> hm
2020-10-19T20:10:48 < GyrosGeier> can I stack COMP2_OUT and TIM15_CH1 on PA2 on STMF32301C8Tx ?
2020-10-19T20:11:16 < GyrosGeier> basically I want to feed the comparator output into the timer as a trigger
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2020-10-19T20:15:34 < jpa-> GyrosGeier: you can only select one alternate function per pin
2020-10-19T20:16:21 < jpa-> sometimes you can do tricks with DMA and PUPDR, but not in this case
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2020-10-19T20:40:00 < GyrosGeier> ah, even if connecting the AF output and the AF input is what I want
2020-10-19T20:40:04 < GyrosGeier> that is annoying
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2020-10-19T20:47:31 < catphish> withdrew from my house purchase :( decided it wasn't for me after all
2020-10-19T20:47:43 < Steffanx> hwoa, that nice house?
2020-10-19T20:47:52 < Steffanx> fool :P
2020-10-19T20:48:13 < Steffanx> cant you buy it for me ? :P
2020-10-19T20:50:49 < Cracki> hoping prices will drop?
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2020-10-19T21:13:34 < zyp> catphish, the one you were talking about the other day? thought you already bought it
2020-10-19T21:14:07 < Steffanx> me too
2020-10-19T21:14:56 < plandemic> George Soros seeks to advance an inclusive vision of health as a public good—an issue of paramount importance in the search to deliver therapies and a vaccine for COVID-19. That vision calls for health care to be available to all, for laws and policies governing health to be transparent and democratically accountable, and medical innovation to deliver solutions that are accessible to everyone.
2020-10-19T21:15:00 < catphish> zyp: i'd basically bought it, but not actually signed :(
2020-10-19T21:15:28 < Steffanx> too much work inside?
2020-10-19T21:15:34 < catphish> decided it was overpriced because it was in an exclusive location, but not a location i actually love, so not worth it
2020-10-19T21:15:41 < catphish> no, i was actually looking forward to the work
2020-10-19T21:15:57 < Cracki> exclusive location
2020-10-19T21:15:59 < catphish> but the price / location didn't seem good value when i really thought about it
2020-10-19T21:16:02 < Cracki> gated community?
2020-10-19T21:16:26 < catphish> Cracki: no, we don't really have those in england, just a place where rich people from the capital move to retire
2020-10-19T21:16:42 < Cracki> heh so you were worried about the smell of corpses
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2020-10-19T21:16:47 < catphish> haha
2020-10-19T21:17:25 < Cracki> yeah I'm not sure I could bear to live in a quasi-graveyard either. even the living aren't moving much
2020-10-19T21:18:13 < catphish> the house itself was perfect, but i figured i could find somewhere cheaper, and get more land / parking for the money
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2020-10-19T21:18:54 < catphish> plus, actually the house i already own is quite nice, and i think i was just rushing into this needlessly
2020-10-19T21:21:14 < GyrosGeier> graah
2020-10-19T21:21:19  * GyrosGeier runs out of timers again
2020-10-19T21:21:42 < catphish> buy some more
2020-10-19T21:22:04 < GyrosGeier> $boss wants me to use that specific IC for cost reasons
2020-10-19T21:22:12 < GyrosGeier> I wanted to use an FPGA, for sanity reasons
2020-10-19T21:22:33 < GyrosGeier> implementing my own timers
2020-10-19T21:22:43 < GyrosGeier> with blackjack and hookers
2020-10-19T21:23:32 < catphish> this week's hobby project is building a computer from scratch in a FPGA
2020-10-19T21:23:41 < GyrosGeier> the constraints on which timers can be externally triggered and be used as blanking source for comparators are nontrivial
2020-10-19T21:24:54 < GyrosGeier> and there is significant overlap with timers that have a break function on their outputs
2020-10-19T21:25:14 < GyrosGeier> which I need for another function
2020-10-19T21:25:47 < GyrosGeier> I really need a solver that can handle things like "I need a PWM from a free running timer, no matter which channel"
2020-10-19T21:26:05 < GyrosGeier> and if something else conflicts with that, it gets moved
2020-10-19T21:26:14 < GyrosGeier> to another channer or another timer if needed
2020-10-19T21:26:26  * GyrosGeier goes home now
2020-10-19T21:26:27 < catphish> this kind of solving tends to happen manually, but not usually a huge challenge
2020-10-19T21:26:34 < GyrosGeier> yes
2020-10-19T21:26:42 < catphish> i know nothing about comparators in sm32 though
2020-10-19T21:27:29 < GyrosGeier> I have a hall sensor that goes into COMP2 and OPAMP, COMP2 needs to be blanked for a fixed time when I get another signal, and latched otherwise
2020-10-19T21:27:50 < GyrosGeier> so I have one timer that generates the blanking signal, and another that latches the output
2020-10-19T21:29:59 < GyrosGeier> I guess I'll remove one of my fan controllers
2020-10-19T21:30:27 < GyrosGeier> 20:26  * GyrosGeier goes home now
2020-10-19T21:30:29 < GyrosGeier> tomorrow
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2020-10-19T22:01:49 < kakisnus> plandemic: try snus
2020-10-19T22:02:16 < kakisnus> no need to inhale any nicotine after that
2020-10-19T22:07:24 < PaulFertser> Try to quit. No need to waste your health on the most absurd recreational drug available.
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2020-10-19T22:24:54 < Steffanx> Whats next PaulFertser? Caffeine or alcohol?
2020-10-19T22:25:56 < qyx> I am safe, no drugs, no nicotine, no alcohol, no caffeine \o/
2020-10-19T22:26:05 < Steffanx> adrenaline is next?
2020-10-19T22:26:23 < Steffanx> endorphins?
2020-10-19T22:26:43 < qyx> you are not being helpful
2020-10-19T22:26:49 < Steffanx> Drink no "black" tea either?
2020-10-19T22:27:01 < Steffanx> and no sugar in it ofcourse.
2020-10-19T22:28:15 < PaulFertser> Steffanx: you get high from alcohol, so there's some sense in it. But if you're consuming nicotine often enough you do not get any high from it anymore.
2020-10-19T22:28:17 < Steffanx> and lol qyx. Haven't heard that one for a while
2020-10-19T22:29:28 < qyx> whats the correct alternative for black tea?
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2020-10-19T22:29:41 < qyx> I drink milk only
2020-10-19T22:29:48 < qyx> idk if legit
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2020-10-19T22:29:58 < Steffanx> This book, i think its from a guy called Allan Carr, seems to be a fun and enlighting way to quit smoking.
2020-10-19T22:30:16 < Steffanx> *Allen
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2020-10-19T22:31:46 < Steffanx> im not sure if that's the book which actually encourages you to smoke till the very last page which is supposed to be awful
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--- Day changed Tue Oct 20 2020
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2020-10-20T00:44:08 < karlp> oops, raspberry pi 4 cm step file is suppppper slow in freecad
2020-10-20T00:47:11 < qyx> is it <= 70mm wide?
2020-10-20T00:56:47 < karlp> just the step file is 77mb
2020-10-20T00:56:50 < karlp> MB sorry
2020-10-20T00:59:04 -!- fenugrec_ [~fenugrec@97.107.220.18] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds]
2020-10-20T01:00:01 < BrainDamage> what
2020-10-20T01:00:32 < qyx> what
2020-10-20T01:01:33 < karlp> https://datasheets.raspberrypi.org/cm4/CM4-step.zip
2020-10-20T01:01:53 < qyx> englishman: https://bradford.missouri.edu/passive-solar-greenhouse/
2020-10-20T01:03:51 < plandemic> you can't even begin to go no-sugar until you cut nicotine and caffiene
2020-10-20T01:04:01 < plandemic> and alcoholz
2020-10-20T01:04:47 < qyx> oh it is not sodimm, it is 55mm × 40mm × 4.7mm module
2020-10-20T01:05:05 < qyx> so small, much great
2020-10-20T01:06:05 < karlp> yeah, finally appealing :)
2020-10-20T01:07:33 < kakisback> plandemic: you mean zero sugar?
2020-10-20T01:07:45 < kakisback> or just cut sugar?
2020-10-20T01:07:46 < plandemic> kakisback: i mean no added sugar
2020-10-20T01:08:19 < kakisback> that's BS
2020-10-20T01:09:22 < kakisback> coffeine works wonders with fasting
2020-10-20T01:10:10 < plandemic> true. but if you're heavily addicted to caffiene and nicotine and can't cut them cold turkey, you're gonna have a hard time cutting added sugars
2020-10-20T01:10:21 < plandemic> it's the same withdraw
2020-10-20T01:10:42 < kakisback> I have got back to my sugar habbits latelly
2020-10-20T01:10:50 < plandemic> that's why here in the USA they call it the food and DRUG administration
2020-10-20T01:10:52 < plandemic> because the food is drugs
2020-10-20T01:11:16 < kakisback> now I eat 100g of candy every night
2020-10-20T01:11:19 < plandemic> all our farms are subsidized by the government and locked down by Bayer (who bought Monsanto). so a DRUG company controls our food supply nearly 100%
2020-10-20T01:11:32 < kakisback> 8o
2020-10-20T01:11:56 < kakisback> that's what we can expect
2020-10-20T01:12:26 < plandemic> you can expect your countries to develop obesity epidemics because it's so profitable treating preventable disease
2020-10-20T01:13:00 < plandemic> the companies that profit from it lobby the government to ensure people don't learn how to eat healthy
2020-10-20T01:13:42 < plandemic> instead, they tell us to eat "whole grain cereal" for breakfast. even says "heart healthy" on the box. But each serving is like 12g of added sugars. do you know what 12g of added sugar looks like when you pour it on a table? A BIG FUCKING PILE
2020-10-20T01:16:18 < BrainDamage> it takes 2-3 days for physical withdrawal of caffeine, a week or two for the psychological fyi
2020-10-20T01:16:31 < BrainDamage> so quitting coffee as a heavy user is quitte doable
2020-10-20T01:16:38 < BrainDamage> not so much for nicotine
2020-10-20T01:16:44 < plandemic> it's even permeated our healthcare system (or lack thereof) to the point where doctors are 1% "eat healthy and excercise" 99% "take these drugs" because 1. they will get fired if they're not pushing for big pharma and 2. the majority of people don't know what to eat and if you told them they'd be like "hello no I want my mt. dew and oreos"
2020-10-20T01:17:32 < plandemic> people rely on food companies to tell them what's healthy
2020-10-20T01:17:38 < kakisback> luckily with healthcare you can take your money elsewhere
2020-10-20T01:18:01 < plandemic> "oh look! all natural heart healthy pasta sauce with olive oil!"
2020-10-20T01:18:56 < plandemic> but then you look at the ingredients and it's a fuckton of added sugar, 0.1% olive oil and the rest is a mixture of whatever heated/chemically processed trans-fat vegetable oils were in the factory that day
2020-10-20T01:18:56 < kakisback> demonizing fats in benefit of sugars was when it all went sideways in 60's or 70's
2020-10-20T01:19:17 < plandemic> yep
2020-10-20T01:19:23 < plandemic> the human brain loves fat
2020-10-20T01:19:50 < plandemic> so they figured out how to cheat the brain by coming up with cheap fats that caused hella problems
2020-10-20T01:20:08 < plandemic> and then they were like "uh oh this aint good. let's do low-fat no-fat because people are afraid of fat now"
2020-10-20T01:20:20 < plandemic> so they had to crank up the sugar instead
2020-10-20T01:20:48 < plandemic> now they're starting to bring the fat back in and get rid of sugars because people are "waking up"
2020-10-20T01:21:02 < plandemic> but the problem with that is, the omega 3 to omega 6 ratio is complete fucked up
2020-10-20T01:21:27 < plandemic> so basically people are now bombing themselves with omega 6, which is a regression back to the days before people got scared of fats.
2020-10-20T01:22:15 < BrainDamage> the human brain loves carbs, not fat
2020-10-20T01:22:38 < plandemic> the solution is to basically go vegan and focus on healthy fats unless you can afford quality grass fed meat... as in you raised the animal yourself or your neighbor did.
2020-10-20T01:23:00 < BrainDamage> the solution is just eat less preprocessed foods
2020-10-20T01:23:09 < plandemic> BrainDamage: that's true. but not the whole story. the brain can crave fat
2020-10-20T01:23:18 < plandemic> the body can adapt to run on fat
2020-10-20T01:23:19 < BrainDamage> vegetables don't come withh sugar sprinkled on top
2020-10-20T01:23:26 < BrainDamage> yes, that's correct
2020-10-20T01:23:29 < plandemic> that's what happens when you go into ketosis for long periods of time. your body becomes "fat adapted"
2020-10-20T01:23:49 < plandemic> not many are like that though because of the western diet being so high in carbs and sugars
2020-10-20T01:23:57 < catphish> what have i just walked into :|
2020-10-20T01:23:58 < plandemic> and low in fats... and the fats that are there are mostly unhealthy
2020-10-20T01:24:00 < BrainDamage> exactly, you have to pourposely go for it
2020-10-20T01:24:29 < BrainDamage> people who go in ketosis accidentally are typically starving from sickness
2020-10-20T01:25:04 < plandemic> if you're feeling hungry going on keto diet, you're doing it wrong :D
2020-10-20T01:25:22 < plandemic> you should feel full, but "withdrawal" symptoms from the lack of sugar/carbs
2020-10-20T01:25:40 < BrainDamage> also, not all carbs are created equal
2020-10-20T01:25:56 < kakisback> with less processed food you know the stuff is legit and has all the stuff
2020-10-20T01:26:16 < BrainDamage> exactly, less processed food means you know exactly what's in
2020-10-20T01:26:29 < plandemic> yes but in america you really have to do your research because our food companies pay the government to allow them to decieve us
2020-10-20T01:27:04 < plandemic> unless it's a bare ingredient (i.e. a fruit or vegetable) you can't trust what the label says.
2020-10-20T01:27:14 < kakisback> well
2020-10-20T01:27:22 < kakisback> you can pump shit into them too
2020-10-20T01:27:32 < plandemic> yeah but they're not going to pump shit into bananas
2020-10-20T01:27:40 < plandemic> not until bill gates runs the world
2020-10-20T01:28:08 < kakisback> why don't you move out of states?
2020-10-20T01:28:43 < kakisback> is it any better in north btw?
2020-10-20T01:28:43 < plandemic> because every part of the states is different
2020-10-20T01:29:08 < kakisback> by north I don't mean north states
2020-10-20T01:29:33 < plandemic> then i don't know what you mean
2020-10-20T01:29:40 < plandemic> i'm in the midwest
2020-10-20T01:30:20 < BrainDamage> a few years ago I would've considered that position borderline lunatic, but then I saw shit like https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/32744984/
2020-10-20T01:30:23 < kakisback> I mean 🇨🇦
2020-10-20T01:31:02 < BrainDamage> canada still has strong commercial ties with the us, they have some independence, but not 100% free from their siht
2020-10-20T01:31:37 < BrainDamage> hell, the us attemps regularly to influence other countries regulations, it even tried with the eu and almost succeeded
2020-10-20T01:31:45 < plandemic> canada also has its own unique issues
2020-10-20T01:32:06 < plandemic> if where you live clashes too much with your personal ideals, then it's time to movee
2020-10-20T01:32:30 < plandemic> the USA is truly a melting pot - so we don't have to skip the country if we don't align with our locale.
2020-10-20T01:32:59 < plandemic> i'm about to move to the most redneck conservative racist part of the country in the next couple months
2020-10-20T01:33:03 < plandemic> not because i myself am a racist
2020-10-20T01:33:31 < plandemic> but because that area is also one of the poorest and most "left alone" parts of the country
2020-10-20T01:33:45 < plandemic> i.e. very little regulation, do whatever you want, don't bother people and they won't bother you.
2020-10-20T01:34:00 < plandemic> low taxes
2020-10-20T01:34:05 < plandemic> low cost of living
2020-10-20T01:34:16 < plandemic> because nobody wants to be there
2020-10-20T01:34:42 < BrainDamage> I never understood usa's fear of taxes
2020-10-20T01:34:49 < BrainDamage> taxes in exchange of services is fine
2020-10-20T01:35:00 < plandemic> oh i totally agree with tha
2020-10-20T01:36:16 < plandemic> i think there should be taxes for things like property (if your land is part of a municipality only), schools (if you have children in the school), city (if you live in the city), sales (if you buy certain items/services), etc.
2020-10-20T01:36:47 < plandemic> and then those taxes go to pay for the public services and the salaries/wages of employees who perform such public services.
2020-10-20T01:37:44 < karlp> the libertarian is leaking out again
2020-10-20T01:39:00 < plandemic> there is nothing wrong with libertarian thinking. anyone who operates under the very recent premise that libertarians are somehow "wrongthink" has unfortunately fallen to some bad propaganda.
2020-10-20T01:45:10 < plandemic> you can't take "high taxes" from some european nation and apply it in the USA. our government is not compatible. the money would be misappropriated to the top 1% while the 99% get poorer and sicker.
2020-10-20T01:45:51 < kakisback> isn't it the case already?
2020-10-20T01:46:16 < plandemic> yeah. so increasing our taxes or trying to do something like nationalised healthcare would be a disaster unless we fixed some major underlying issues first.
2020-10-20T01:46:51 < plandemic> obamacare was basically forced poverty if you want healthcare.
2020-10-20T01:46:57 < fenugrec> I want to point a newbie to an intro to bytes, bit masks, logical operations... any suggestions ?
2020-10-20T01:51:48 < kakisback> doing is learning but are you looking for something more guided?
2020-10-20T01:53:32 < kakisback> or just nice static page?
2020-10-20T01:54:57 < fenugrec> kakisback, the newbie is already doing but kindof skipped some basics, so a static page or few pages would be ok 
2020-10-20T01:57:59 < kakisback> https://www.tutorialspoint.com/cprogramming/index.htm left bar Data types, Operations
2020-10-20T01:58:56 < kakisback> https://www.learn-c.org/en/Bitmasks learn-c? Personally I don't know if this site is good
2020-10-20T01:59:17 < kakisback> but it might have interactive training
2020-10-20T01:59:39 < kakisback> *excercises
2020-10-20T02:00:49 < kakisback> I use first site as a cheat sheet sometimes as it always comes up in one of first results in google
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2020-10-20T02:08:49 < fenugrec> thx
2020-10-20T02:16:06 < Steffanx> That last website kakisback ..
2020-10-20T02:16:44 < Steffanx> Possible solution:
2020-10-20T02:16:50 < Steffanx> / storage |= FLAG_ON & FLAG_TRANSPARENT .... whaat?
2020-10-20T02:17:13 < Steffanx> Half copy paste error but.. that solution :S
2020-10-20T02:17:34 < kakisback> I think we need to look for some older looking pages
2020-10-20T02:18:02 < Steffanx> Yes, because you dont want to give people pages that are wrong ;)
2020-10-20T02:19:42 < Steffanx> And "Excepted Output
2020-10-20T02:19:42 < Steffanx> " lol what?
2020-10-20T02:22:07 < qyx> excepted?
2020-10-20T02:22:32 < kakisback> fenugrec: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mask_(computing) best one I found
2020-10-20T02:22:36 < Steffanx> Yeah. You are excepted qyx
2020-10-20T02:23:18 < Steffanx> Better purge the other one from your memory mr kakisback 
2020-10-20T02:23:50 < kakisback> can I purge it from internets?
2020-10-20T02:24:32 < Steffanx> I hope so
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2020-10-20T02:35:54 < fenugrec> kakisback, heh, I usually don't refer newbs to wikipedia because it's usually super terse and not beginner friendly. That one looks pretty decent though
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2020-10-20T03:05:08 < englishman> qyx: very cool
2020-10-20T03:05:15 < englishman> the idea here is not far off
2020-10-20T03:05:22 < englishman> thanks
2020-10-20T03:08:35 < englishman> kakisback: canada typically doesn't let in criminals
2020-10-20T03:09:45 < kakisback> 8)
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2020-10-20T11:59:36 < zyp> rpi cm4 is starting to look decent
2020-10-20T12:04:49 < Steffanx> i heard people say this new connector sucks arse and they want to old connector back.
2020-10-20T12:04:55 < Steffanx> sodimm-ish connector
2020-10-20T12:07:35 < kakisback> 2.54mm for the win
2020-10-20T12:07:37 < effractur> cm4 is indeed nice
2020-10-20T12:07:45 < effractur> real ethernet
2020-10-20T12:07:47 < effractur> and pcie
2020-10-20T12:08:08 < effractur> sodimm is a lot more compact
2020-10-20T12:15:13 < zyp> cm3 is 68x31mm plus connector, cm4 is 55x40mm with connectors underneath, so area wise cm4 seems smaller
2020-10-20T12:16:43 < effractur> zyp: yea mut CM3 kan be positions upright on the board
2020-10-20T12:19:04 < zyp> assuming you can find a vertical sodimm socket
2020-10-20T12:19:14 < zyp> I've looked at that before, they are uncommon
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2020-10-20T12:57:43 < karlp> zyp: what's with the funky strings: https://cgit.jvnv.net/cardio/tree/bootloader.cpp#n201 ?
2020-10-20T12:58:25 < karlp> Steffanx: do they have any real objection?
2020-10-20T13:00:21 < zyp> karlp, they are whole string descriptors, i.e. utf-16 prefixed with descriptor type (0x03) and length
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2020-10-20T13:00:49 < zyp> and string descriptor 0 is language index or something, IIRC 0x0409 is english
2020-10-20T13:01:16 < zyp> it's a mechanism to allow devices to support multilanguage string descriptors
2020-10-20T13:01:22 < zyp> never seen it used
2020-10-20T13:02:07 < karlp> how does case 3 expand the cardio... to the utf16?
2020-10-20T13:02:31 < karlp> case 2...
2020-10-20T13:02:43 < zyp> u"" are utf16-literals
2020-10-20T13:03:23 < karlp> so u0304 is type 3, length 4, and u409 gets doubled
2020-10-20T13:03:29 < karlp> ok.
2020-10-20T13:03:32 < karlp> spes
2020-10-20T13:04:03 < karlp> one of the locm3 forks has multi lang stuff, he has hindi descriptors, but I've never seen it on a product.
2020-10-20T13:04:58 < zyp> not doubled, the whole descriptor reads like 03 04 04 09
2020-10-20T13:05:35 < zyp> and next one 03 08 'z' 00 'y' 00 'p' 00
2020-10-20T13:05:59 < zyp> probably mixing up endianness but you get the point
2020-10-20T13:16:43 < karlp> oh, the lnegth includes the length?
2020-10-20T13:16:46 < karlp> didn't know that.
2020-10-20T13:16:59 < karlp> thought the zyp must have had a double 0 at the end to get to 8.
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2020-10-20T14:01:38 < Steffanx> it was telegram stm32 that said it karlp ;)
2020-10-20T14:15:32 < karlp> it's not like they were even goign to make it pincompatible anyway.
2020-10-20T14:15:55 < karlp> only thing I think is odd is why the big mounting holes when it's got plug connectors
2020-10-20T14:16:16 < karlp> are you meant to mount it on it' back and plug shit into it that way? seems unlikely.
2020-10-20T14:20:10 < BrainDamage> I'd assume people will make backplanes that mount on it and will make it vertical
2020-10-20T14:27:15 < karlp> still, are you m eant to plug it onto the other board, and also screw it to it?
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2020-10-20T15:06:48 < BrainDamage> I'd assume so
2020-10-20T15:08:05 < BrainDamage> the connector alone wouldn't be very mechanically strong from lifting forces, which if mounted on a backplane would be lateral forces
2020-10-20T15:13:55 < GyrosGeier> hmmk
2020-10-20T15:15:19 < GyrosGeier> can I stack JTAG and GPIOs in CubeMX?
2020-10-20T15:18:29 < GyrosGeier> I mean, the plan is to use them as GPIOs when not debugging
2020-10-20T15:18:49 < GyrosGeier> but if I set that up in CubeMX, I get init code that disables JTAG
2020-10-20T15:19:00 < GyrosGeier> which I want later
2020-10-20T15:26:00 < Mangy_Dog> i would say tentitivly yes and you setup the init code for jtag or io depending on some flag somewhere
2020-10-20T15:26:15 < Mangy_Dog> like if you have a jumper select set for io or jtag
2020-10-20T15:32:29 < Steffanx> The joy of automagic code generation GyrosGeier 
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2020-10-20T15:46:10 < Laurenceb> wew
2020-10-20T15:46:12 < Laurenceb> https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-54612455
2020-10-20T15:46:20 < Laurenceb> somethingaweul guy has mad skillz
2020-10-20T15:55:06 < aandrew> that must be some weird-ass kink
2020-10-20T15:55:22 < aandrew> all that skill to build a mini sub, only to lure a woman into it to kill her
2020-10-20T15:56:42 < Laurenceb> he used to hang in #highaltitude
2020-10-20T15:57:03 < Laurenceb> iirc he got b& for trying to rip people off with deranged schemes
2020-10-20T15:57:19 < Laurenceb> he was only ever a con artist, didnt actully build anything himself
2020-10-20T15:58:12 < Laurenceb> just somehow convinced people to build a "community submarine" that he got to drive around in to attract ladies and grab crowdfunding from autists
2020-10-20T15:59:52 < Laurenceb> >Danish Elon Musk
2020-10-20T16:00:03 < Steffanx> How much time did you spend with him?
2020-10-20T16:00:49 < Laurenceb> lol iirc some of the #highaltitude guys met him in Copenhagen and did some work for him
2020-10-20T16:01:28 < Laurenceb> they were really angry afterwards lol, said he manipulated people into working for him for free
2020-10-20T16:01:36 < Steffanx> Ill never do anything for you for sure. Im pretty damn sure you will go (more) mad one day too.
2020-10-20T16:01:52 < Laurenceb> lmao
2020-10-20T16:02:36 < Laurenceb> he used to be a somethingaweful mod iirc
2020-10-20T16:03:17 < bitmask> hi ppl
2020-10-20T16:04:27 < Laurenceb> tfw no army of simps to pay for me to pimp my minisub
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2020-10-20T16:22:27 < karlp> cute, added the dfu app descriptor, so can just "dfu-util -D newapp.bin" from whatever mode it's in.
2020-10-20T16:29:34 < zyp> :)
2020-10-20T16:39:24 < karlp> would be nice to get rid of the 5sec delay here though https://paste.jvnv.net/view/egRH5
2020-10-20T16:39:40 < karlp> it's WILL_DETACH and that has a timeout in it, so it should be "just doing the right thing"
2020-10-20T16:40:48 < zyp> also, is this with my bootloader?
2020-10-20T16:42:19 < karlp> nah, this is with https://github.com/devanlai/dapboot/
2020-10-20T16:42:45 < zyp> just wondering since you were looking at the strings stuff
2020-10-20T16:42:47 < karlp> I can see in kernel logs that it's detached and re-attached as the dfu class ~instantly, 
2020-10-20T16:43:00 < karlp> ah, just had those tabs open still, had meant to finish looking at it for tips and nice bits...
2020-10-20T16:44:57 < karlp> do you know if intnerface association descriptors are _required_ for multi ifs in the same config, or are they just a nicce thing for windows
2020-10-20T16:45:06 < karlp> also, wow, that was the biggest earthquake I've felt.
2020-10-20T16:45:28 < karlp> hehe, vedur.is is down already...
2020-10-20T16:45:58 < zyp> not required
2020-10-20T16:46:16 < zyp> the main purpose of IAD is to group multi-interface functions
2020-10-20T16:46:25 < zyp> e.g. CDC ACM that has one data and one control interface
2020-10-20T16:46:49 < karlp> right, I put one in, copied from somewhere, but it seemed like it should have the assoc descriptor for the other interface too, and that seemd so intrusive
2020-10-20T16:47:07 < karlp> so does it improve windows compat or what?
2020-10-20T16:47:26 < karlp> donn't... realllly care about that for this project, but if it can be done once and forgotten about, awesome
2020-10-20T16:48:44 < zyp> yeah, IAD helps generic windows drivers bind to only part of a composite device
2020-10-20T16:49:30 < zyp> like the ACM driver binding to the relevant interfaces and leaving the other ones alone
2020-10-20T16:49:54 < zyp> I'm not sure it's necessary for a composite device with only single interface functions
2020-10-20T16:50:10 < zyp> but IIRC ACM needs it
2020-10-20T16:50:22 < karlp> like "app.interface+dfu" being two single interfaces,
2020-10-20T16:50:34 < karlp> but cdcacm having cdc.control+cdc.data+dfu would want an IAD?
2020-10-20T16:50:45 < zyp> something like that, yes
2020-10-20T16:50:57 < karlp> this app has vendor specific for the other one anyway, so not like windows could do anything anyway I guess.
2020-10-20T16:51:38 < zyp> well, I assume dfu-util would use libusb via winusb on windows, and you'd probably do similar for vendor specific, in which case you might as well just bind the whole device to winusb
2020-10-20T16:51:40 < karlp> dfu-util -E 1 will make it faster, but it feels like something's missing from the impl somewhere to not have that be detected :|
2020-10-20T16:52:38 < zyp> you say five seconds? maybe the device is not finishing the status stage of the reset request before it resets, so the host hangs until request timeout?
2020-10-20T16:53:03 < zyp> probably not, should have been terminated on detach anyway, but idk
2020-10-20T16:53:41 < zyp> nah, doesn't make sense with -E
2020-10-20T16:55:58  * karlp shrugs.
2020-10-20T16:56:09 < karlp> shoujjlnd't really spend anymore time on it right now...
2020-10-20T16:56:19 < karlp> wsa doing this sort of thing to make sure the req finished before it rebooted: https://github.com/blacksphere/blackmagic/blob/master/src/platforms/common/cdcacm.c#L471
2020-10-20T16:56:30 < karlp> plausibly might still reboot too quickly though...
2020-10-20T16:57:20 < karlp> hrm, first estimate is 5.5
2020-10-20T17:01:30 < karlp> reflashing app section via talking to a running openocd session: 3.88s
2020-10-20T17:01:45 < karlp> reflashing via dfu-util -E1 -D binfile: 4.1s
2020-10-20T17:02:00 < karlp> hrm, another quake.
2020-10-20T17:02:06 < karlp> this could be an interesting day
2020-10-20T17:03:24 < zyp> nice
2020-10-20T17:03:56 < zyp> I've yet to feel any earthquakes in norway
2020-10-20T17:06:16 < karlp> we're up to four very solid ones the last half hour.
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2020-10-20T17:12:41 < Cracki> how often does norway have earthquakes? you are somewhat far away from that red line that means something they taught us in school https://earthquake.usgs.gov/earthquakes/map/?currentFeatureId=us6000ca0k&extent=-4.39023,-88.24219&extent=80.704,126.38672
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2020-10-20T18:10:51 < GyrosGeier> hm
2020-10-20T18:11:50 < GyrosGeier> apparently I can't stack TIM16_BKIN and GPIO_EXTI5 onto pin PB5 on STM32F301C8Tx
2020-10-20T18:12:12 < GyrosGeier> an interrupt for the blanking input would be nice
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2020-10-20T18:16:20 < BrainDamage> if you get volcanoes you also get earthquakes, in a nice little package
2020-10-20T18:18:38 < karlp> we're well over due for some lava
2020-10-20T18:19:58 < karlp> https://bin.jvnv.net/file/t3vuJ.png
2020-10-20T18:41:39 < Cracki> >Simplified tectonic map of Italy and surrounding areas https://www.researchgate.net/profile/Mimmo_Palano/publication/268923580/figure/fig1/AS:295357738176512@1447430180039/Simplified-tectonic-map-of-Italy-and-surrounding-areas-main-tectonic-lineaments-are_Q640.jpg
2020-10-20T18:41:44 < Cracki> looks rather busy
2020-10-20T18:42:43 < Cracki> I visited vesuvius once. not sure if I visited pompeii too
2020-10-20T18:43:08 < Cracki> must be fun for history buffs
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2020-10-20T19:04:14 < kakisback> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Phlegraean_Fields hot
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2020-10-20T19:15:22 < englishman> cool karlp
2020-10-20T19:15:45 < englishman> good place to build a nation's capitol!
2020-10-20T19:26:22 < zyp> karlp, your earthquake were big enough to make the radio news here :)
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2020-10-20T20:15:40 < Steffanx> W
2020-10-20T20:15:51 < Steffanx> Oops
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2020-10-20T20:46:16 < Cracki> TIL: rollercoaster :D https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SZB4_-tiRt0
2020-10-20T20:49:49 < machinehum> I need to figure out how many units a company sells per year
2020-10-20T20:50:07 < machinehum> So I'm going to call them and pretend to be a (?) ... any suggestions
2020-10-20T20:50:17 < Cracki> tax man
2020-10-20T20:50:22 < machinehum> heh
2020-10-20T20:50:30 < machinehum> Too illigal
2020-10-20T20:50:41 < Cracki> how about you just call, no name or anything, and point blank ask them
2020-10-20T20:50:56 < machinehum> around a 12% chance of working
2020-10-20T20:51:04 < Cracki> you could monitor truck traffic out of their warehouse
2020-10-20T20:51:18 < Cracki> you could bribe an employee to find out for you
2020-10-20T20:51:38 < Cracki> if they have stakeholders/shareholders, there ought to be reports
2020-10-20T20:51:41 < machinehum> This is all quite hard
2020-10-20T20:51:51 < machinehum> Private company
2020-10-20T20:51:54 < Cracki> ask their competitors
2020-10-20T20:52:07 < machinehum> ask them what?
2020-10-20T20:52:17 < Cracki> find out where their children go to school, be a suspicious figure on the school yard
2020-10-20T20:52:28 < Cracki> ask their competitors what they know about that company?
2020-10-20T20:56:18 < Cracki> do you want this question approached as a math brain teaser, or some other way?
2020-10-20T20:56:30 < Cracki> or is this part of a job interview
2020-10-20T20:56:40 < machinehum> lol
2020-10-20T20:56:52 < machinehum> No I want to figure out if the market is worth persueing
2020-10-20T20:57:34 < BrainDamage> company balances are public
2020-10-20T20:57:51 < BrainDamage> just check their sales profits
2020-10-20T20:57:53 < Cracki> judge the loadedness of their staff. watch parking lot, see how many are company cars and how many are private.
2020-10-20T20:58:01 < machinehum> Only if the company is public... no?
2020-10-20T20:58:30 < BrainDamage> depends on local law, here all of them are
2020-10-20T20:58:42 < machinehum> Where's here
2020-10-20T20:58:46 < BrainDamage> italy
2020-10-20T20:58:58 < Cracki> vs canada, eh
2020-10-20T20:59:13 < machinehum> Company is in the US
2020-10-20T20:59:25 < BrainDamage> alternatively, offer a steak dinner to an acccountant an ask nicely
2020-10-20T20:59:29 < BrainDamage> it's nothing illegal
2020-10-20T20:59:37 < BrainDamage> nor immoral
2020-10-20T20:59:43 < machinehum> They're not exactly woke with the radical candor thing
2020-10-20T21:00:01 < machinehum> hmm
2020-10-20T21:00:18 < Cracki> "absolute" candor (star trek picard)
2020-10-20T21:00:54 < Cracki> pay a private investigator?
2020-10-20T21:01:29 < karlp> pretend to be an investor?
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2020-10-20T21:03:06 < machinehum> :(
2020-10-20T21:03:26 < Cracki> did that come through? https://guides.loc.gov/company-research/private
2020-10-20T21:03:46 < machinehum> Thanks
2020-10-20T21:04:10 < Cracki> srsly, if you think you can burn a bit of money on this, get a private investigator to worry about it
2020-10-20T21:04:29 < machinehum> Sounds expensive
2020-10-20T21:04:30 < Cracki> they might even give you free advice or tell you the business idea is a joke
2020-10-20T21:05:11 < Cracki> company must have references/success stories, i.e. customers you can look into
2020-10-20T21:06:53 < Cracki> apart from that, consider entering a niche only if you have some advantage (cheaper production, better technology, w/e). copying only makes sense if you're copying for a different market (e.g. copy european stuff to china)
2020-10-20T21:07:25 < machinehum> Not copying, have better tech https://www.wildlifeacoustics.com/
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2020-10-20T21:07:39 < machinehum> Also possibly a new market to break into
2020-10-20T21:08:12 < Cracki> first I wouldn't rely on marketing "surveillance devices" only to tree huggers
2020-10-20T21:08:21 < Cracki> they may have money but you can branch out
2020-10-20T21:08:45 < Cracki> sell it to cities and police forces as gun fire detection gear
2020-10-20T21:09:27 < machinehum> gun fire + endangered species detection
2020-10-20T21:09:52 < machinehum> Companies will pay $ to make sure they don't run over an endangered bird with a dumptruck
2020-10-20T21:09:55 < Cracki> only until parrots learn to say bang bang
2020-10-20T21:09:59 < Cracki> wut
2020-10-20T21:10:16 < machinehum> Yeah they're liable, pay out millions/year to the EPA
2020-10-20T21:10:22 < machinehum> If the kill some bird
2020-10-20T21:10:24 < Cracki> srsly birds tend to notice a big truck
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2020-10-20T21:10:41 < Cracki> birds that don't won't notice predators eithe
2020-10-20T21:11:06 < machinehum> I mean not literially getting run over by a truck, but if you're blasting
2020-10-20T21:11:13 < Cracki> ic
2020-10-20T21:11:22 < machinehum> Or _something_
2020-10-20T21:11:28 < machinehum> that might be harmful to wildlife
2020-10-20T21:11:51 < Cracki> i see your point, there might be reasons other than research and preservation to detect animals
2020-10-20T21:12:13 < machinehum> Yes - and my core IP is a ML classifier that uses audio
2020-10-20T21:12:18 < Cracki> heh
2020-10-20T21:12:25 < machinehum> what?
2020-10-20T21:12:31 < Cracki> and you want to build a whole company on that
2020-10-20T21:12:32 < machinehum> You don't like my hype play?
2020-10-20T21:12:43 < Cracki> if I had that, I'd make a deal with them
2020-10-20T21:12:52 < Cracki> license it
2020-10-20T21:13:15 < machinehum> Well there's the electronics as well
2020-10-20T21:13:25 < Cracki> they may decide to hire another ML specialist and duplicate your claims
2020-10-20T21:13:48 < machinehum> Which is nice part about a niche market
2020-10-20T21:13:57 < machinehum> Lower probability
2020-10-20T21:14:02 < machinehum> idk...
2020-10-20T21:14:06 < machinehum> Maybe it's a shit idea
2020-10-20T21:14:25 < Cracki> sure you can just compete with them. competition drives prices down.
2020-10-20T21:14:44 < Cracki> if you want to rake in the dough, team up with them or cooperate
2020-10-20T21:15:10 < Cracki> don't think like a consumer
2020-10-20T21:15:18 < Cracki> look at google, apple, microsoft, tesla, ...
2020-10-20T21:15:29 < Cracki> look at anything that enrages consumers, then do it
2020-10-20T21:16:07 < Cracki> in your place (and theirs probably) I'd lobby for laws and regulations that practically require people to buy your gear so they don't break the law
2020-10-20T21:16:31 < Cracki> if they happen to be the only one on the market, they'll rake in the dough
2020-10-20T21:16:43 < Cracki> if you show up, they'll hate you for ruining their cash cow
2020-10-20T21:16:54 < Cracki> unless YOU are their cash cow
2020-10-20T21:17:38 < Cracki> or you enjoy creating the startup company you seem to propose (unless your tech is already part of some company's development/portfolio)
2020-10-20T21:21:07 < Cracki> heh bats go pew pew pew, chirps for ranging, nature and math agree it's a good idea
2020-10-20T21:23:38 < machinehum> Yeah makes sense
2020-10-20T21:23:43 < machinehum> I mean they're a tiny comapny
2020-10-20T21:24:14 < machinehum> Also they don't have a focus, they just sell "listening devices"
2020-10-20T21:24:33 < machinehum> Don't say anything about wildlife protection or anything
2020-10-20T21:26:41 < Cracki> a task for marketing and sales depts
2020-10-20T21:27:22 < machinehum> That's more of a vision-level company thing
2020-10-20T21:27:31 < machinehum> Also they can't do that with their shit
2020-10-20T21:27:37 < machinehum> All it does it record to an SD card
2020-10-20T21:30:02 < emeb> wonder how long you could continuously record a 24-hr loop onto an SD card before it exceeded the endurance
2020-10-20T21:31:27 < Cracki> ah so your idea is to process it live ("online" is the computer science term, nothing to do with connectivity)
2020-10-20T21:31:52 < Cracki> they have a sample file that's 256 kHz 16 bit mono if you're wondering
2020-10-20T21:32:22 < Cracki> (that's 0.5 MB/s)
2020-10-20T21:33:21 < Cracki> or 44 GB/day
2020-10-20T21:33:54 < Cracki> there are "industrial" sd cards with guarantees
2020-10-20T21:34:56 < Cracki> their TBW figures come to ~24k cycles https://www.apdate.de/english/flash%20products_e/microSD%20collection_e.htm
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2020-10-20T21:36:12 < Cracki> SD cards are scratching capacities of 1 TB these days so that'd give you weeks of recording time
2020-10-20T21:36:15 < emeb> not bad
2020-10-20T21:36:21 < Cracki> throw flac on it for another 2x
2020-10-20T21:36:35 < Cracki> if SD card sounds too fucky, go for an SSD
2020-10-20T21:36:49 < Cracki> or even spinning rust plus battery backed ram
2020-10-20T21:36:50 < emeb> wonder what the CPU load of a realtime FLAC codec is
2020-10-20T21:37:20 < Cracki> probably less than opus
2020-10-20T21:37:25 < Cracki> and opus runs on some cortex m
2020-10-20T21:37:33 < Cracki> probably even most
2020-10-20T21:38:38 < emeb> I've been banging on such an application for RPi for a few weeks - continuous 24hr loop recording onto an SSD via USB3 @ 48k/16-bit/stereo. 
2020-10-20T21:39:05 < Cracki> ¯\_(ツ)_/¯ cronjob, ffmpeg, logrotate?
2020-10-20T21:39:07 < emeb> it works, but there's all kinds of timing weirdness due to the OS getting in the way
2020-10-20T21:39:43 < Cracki> I've got a zoom h4n pro with its RTC drifting by 118 ppm. it's awful. the sampling clock is spot on though
2020-10-20T21:39:45 < emeb> can't really do simple scripting because it has to play and record simultaneously -
2020-10-20T21:39:53 < Cracki> oh it does
2020-10-20T21:40:28 < Cracki> so... some custom code then, unless you can kick ffmpeg or gstreamer into switching files while running
2020-10-20T21:40:53 < Cracki> they might even support some type of segmented recording, then you can wipe old files on the side
2020-10-20T21:40:57 < emeb> yeah - just coded it up as a cmd line C app w/ basic ALSA interfaces.
2020-10-20T21:41:01 < Cracki> ah
2020-10-20T21:41:46 < emeb> and yeah - timing drift is a problem. 
2020-10-20T21:42:22 < emeb> the record and play processes are in separate threads and the gradually get out of sync, so I have to detect that and splice back to on-time.
2020-10-20T21:42:24 < Cracki> this has some figures for flac, but no arm cortex, only older ones. https://www.rockbox.org/wiki/CodecPerformanceComparison
2020-10-20T21:42:46 < Cracki> how do they run out of sync, do they produce/consume on different devices?
2020-10-20T21:43:21 < emeb> seems like there are glitches / pauses in the ALSA input stream
2020-10-20T21:43:44 < emeb> so the playback stream gradually creeps up on the record.
2020-10-20T21:44:16 < Cracki> :( that page is only decode times boo
2020-10-20T21:44:54 < emeb> lol rockbox
2020-10-20T21:45:23 < emeb> how old is that? I remember running that on an Archos Jukebox 20yrs ago
2020-10-20T21:45:32 < Cracki> >_>
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2020-10-20T21:46:04 < emeb> (I actually know that guy who designed the early Archos products)
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2020-10-20T21:49:30 < emeb> anyway - might be an interesting experiment to see if I could make a rec/play to SD with one of the STM32F4 boards I've got laying around.
2020-10-20T21:49:43 < emeb> not even use a filesystem - just raw block access.
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2020-10-20T22:01:03 < Cracki> shoveling data between ADC/DAC/codec and SD card sounds doable but don't make me handle some kind of display and user input too!
2020-10-20T22:06:19 < emeb> heh, yeah. fortunately this device doesn't have a lot of variables and none of them need to change realtime.
2020-10-20T22:13:42 < jadew> who's a native english speaker here who's willing to help me decipher a message from a customer?
2020-10-20T22:13:53 < jadew> it's a two line message
2020-10-20T22:14:16 < jadew> I'll share it over PM
2020-10-20T22:15:06 < PaulFertser> I'm not native but it'd be interesting to see it nevertheless.
2020-10-20T22:15:28 < jadew> sent
2020-10-20T22:27:12 < Cracki> inb4 fuzziness of indirect identifiers. "Go to the store and buy a loaf of bread. If they have eggs, buy a dozen."  Husband returns with 12 loaves of bread.
2020-10-20T22:27:52 < machinehum> Cracki: Sorry left, yeah the classifier would run on the edge
2020-10-20T22:29:34 < machinehum> jadew: I'm a native english speaker
2020-10-20T22:29:41 < machinehum> Might not seem like it
2020-10-20T22:40:41 < machinehum> Alriht I'm just calling these listening people and asking how many devices they have on the shelf... that's the best I can think of
2020-10-20T22:42:58 < jadew> what people?
2020-10-20T22:43:08 < machinehum> https://www.wildlifeacoustics.com/
2020-10-20T22:43:22 < machinehum> I wanna figure out how many of these things they sell
2020-10-20T22:43:45 < jadew> you want to compete with them?
2020-10-20T22:44:18 < machinehum> Maybe
2020-10-20T22:44:26 < machinehum> Depends how big they are
2020-10-20T22:44:40 < jadew> ask them how many they can deliver on a short notice
2020-10-20T22:44:51 < machinehum> ^Yeah exactly
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2020-10-20T23:11:13 < Cracki> they might have few in stock but building on demand
2020-10-20T23:15:15 < BrainDamage> ask them for a MILLION modules, with a pinkie finger on your lips
2020-10-20T23:16:31 < machinehum> Didn't answer
2020-10-20T23:17:05 < machinehum> Guess I can call back in a couple hours
2020-10-20T23:17:31 < machinehum> 978 timezone
2020-10-20T23:19:14 < Cracki> what zipcode is that in giraffes
2020-10-20T23:20:10 < Cracki> 978 is east coast, 16:20
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2020-10-20T23:26:25 < machinehum> ye
2020-10-20T23:26:49 < machinehum> Is this tc2030 right? https://imgur.com/a/l58qNAJ
2020-10-20T23:27:04 < machinehum> I always fuck these things up
2020-10-20T23:27:24 < machinehum> Don't have Autism anymore more so I can't check against my old designs
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2020-10-20T23:32:38 < qyx> machinehum: hoiw much is the wildlife recorder, don't you know?
2020-10-20T23:32:48 < machinehum> 500$
2020-10-20T23:32:49 < qyx> oh  $849.00 
2020-10-20T23:32:50 < machinehum> US
2020-10-20T23:33:04 < machinehum> They got like a mini one
2020-10-20T23:33:07 < machinehum> https://www.wildlifeacoustics.com/products/song-meter-mini
2020-10-20T23:33:20 < machinehum> Which I feel is the most popular
2020-10-20T23:33:42 < qyx> Record up to 650 hours scheduled over months using four D cell batteries
2020-10-20T23:33:55 < machinehum> lol D cells
2020-10-20T23:34:02 < machinehum> What is this a ghettoblaster
2020-10-20T23:34:08 < machinehum> Can you even buy D cells anymore?!
2020-10-20T23:34:32 < machinehum> But yeah... it's "somewhat" impressive, but not really
2020-10-20T23:34:34 < qyx> sure, they the the largest capacity density
2020-10-20T23:34:57 < machinehum> What? Really... I assumed that was 18650 or something
2020-10-20T23:34:59 < qyx> LiSOCl D-cell is 16AH at 2V6
2020-10-20T23:35:09 < qyx> fuk the kbd
2020-10-20T23:35:13 < qyx> 16Ah at 3V6
2020-10-20T23:35:47 < qyx> that would be 230Wh which means the design is not particularly low power, 0.3W
2020-10-20T23:36:44 < machinehum> 83mA if it's 3.6V
2020-10-20T23:37:15 < machinehum> My device would sleep, when it hears something, wake up, record, classify, log. Back to sleep
2020-10-20T23:37:43 < machinehum> None of this generating gb of audio data nonsense
2020-10-20T23:37:48 < qyx> much NN, such IoT
2020-10-20T23:38:12 < machinehum> Yeah it will also use a blockchain
2020-10-20T23:38:17 < qyx> \o/
2020-10-20T23:38:24 < machinehum> For... obvious reasons
2020-10-20T23:38:59 < qyx> sell the data in exchange for IOTA
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2020-10-20T23:39:09 < qyx> ST even has a devboard for this purpose
2020-10-20T23:39:17 < machinehum> IOTA is the most braindead fucking project
2020-10-20T23:39:28 < machinehum> Sorry if I offended anyone
2020-10-20T23:39:34 < qyx> yeah their data marketplace hasn't changed since they did some demo
2020-10-20T23:40:03 < machinehum> Their consensus algorthym is fucking proof of work on IOT devices
2020-10-20T23:40:10 < machinehum> Like you retards
2020-10-20T23:40:27 < machinehum> No one will possibly 51% that! Right!
2020-10-20T23:40:49 < machinehum> We have this magic DAG thing, it's totally new we call it the tangle!
2020-10-20T23:40:50 < qyx> but hey, they use trytes!
2020-10-20T23:40:52 < qyx> so it must be good
2020-10-20T23:41:07 < machinehum> Dude it's a fucking graph that been around for 50 years
2020-10-20T23:41:12 < machinehum> trytes wtf is that
2020-10-20T23:41:21 < qyx> don't you know?
2020-10-20T23:41:34 < qyx> iota doesn't use binary because too mainstream
2020-10-20T23:41:39 < qyx> it uses ternary operations
2020-10-20T23:41:54 < qyx> fully custom ternary math
2020-10-20T23:42:23 < machinehum> Have they developed some sort of tri-state silicon the rest of the world doesn't know about?
2020-10-20T23:42:31 < qyx> tryte is a bunch of trits, a trit having -1, 0, 1
2020-10-20T23:43:28 < qyx> https://docs.iota.org/docs/getting-started/1.1/introduction/overview
2020-10-20T23:44:13 < machinehum> hmm
2020-10-20T23:49:47 < Cracki> all I see is bullshit
2020-10-20T23:50:23 < Cracki> the equivalent of "enterprise java" except javascript
2020-10-20T23:51:04 < Cracki> >a tryte is just a character between A-Z or the number 9
2020-10-20T23:51:22 < Cracki> so 3^3 = 27 values
2020-10-20T23:51:49 < Cracki> tripe
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2020-10-20T23:55:07 < Cracki> machinehum, the tagconnect matches some docs I have. can't read pin 6, that's SWO
2020-10-20T23:58:18 < machinehum> Cracki: ty, I don't need the SWO
2020-10-20T23:58:25 < machinehum> Never used it
2020-10-20T23:58:29 < Cracki> boo
2020-10-20T23:58:35 < Cracki> it's useful :>
2020-10-20T23:58:38 < machinehum> wtf do you do with it?
2020-10-20T23:58:41 < Cracki> printlining
2020-10-20T23:58:44 < Cracki> i.e. debug logging
2020-10-20T23:58:54 < Cracki> also good for watching variables
2020-10-20T23:59:08 < Cracki> it's most useful if you have an IDE/gui that can handle the data
2020-10-20T23:59:28 < machinehum> I don't have that
2020-10-20T23:59:37 < machinehum> gdb and a good attitude
2020-10-20T23:59:49 < machinehum> Maybe I'll hook it up
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2020-10-20T23:59:55 < Cracki> never used it for that but i think it can do call tracing too. for instruction trace you need more oomph
--- Day changed Wed Oct 21 2020
2020-10-21T00:00:10 < machinehum> Printing shit out would be cool, usually I just use UART
2020-10-21T00:00:14 < Cracki> I think it can do instruction pointer sampling over SWO
2020-10-21T00:00:26 < machinehum> hmm
2020-10-21T00:00:26 < Cracki> ye swo can be used as a simplex uart
2020-10-21T00:01:31 < Cracki> I mostly use it to plot some variables/registers over time (segger ozone can do plotting, as can various distributions of eclipse + addons)
2020-10-21T00:02:04 < Cracki> if I had a jlink with uart I'd probably hook that up instead or in addition
2020-10-21T00:02:20 < Cracki> (or stlink with uart)
2020-10-21T00:02:41 < machinehum> The new stlink v3 has a uart channel
2020-10-21T00:02:43 < machinehum> finally
2020-10-21T00:03:21 < Cracki> v2-1 too iirc
2020-10-21T00:14:59 < qyx> karlp: did you check pi4cm power consumption?
2020-10-21T00:15:34 < qyx> 400% CPU load (stress --cpu 4) 1280 mA (6.4 W)
2020-10-21T00:15:38 < qyx> for PI4B, uh oh
2020-10-21T00:15:52 < karlp> that's not really an issue for me.
2020-10-21T00:16:03 < karlp> I want cheap, emmc, some ram, and processing power
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2020-10-21T00:16:11 < karlp> so, morehtna any of these sama5a shitss
2020-10-21T00:21:34 < zyp> wonder how it compares to rk3399
2020-10-21T00:22:06 < zyp> the low memory variants are cheaper, but the largest variants are about the same price range as the rk3399-som
2020-10-21T00:23:03 < qyx> the thing is it is smaller than other sodimm modules
2020-10-21T00:23:10 < qyx> so it fits my 55x71mm form factor :P
2020-10-21T00:23:10 < zyp> yes
2020-10-21T00:23:42 < qyx> sodimm would not fit
2020-10-21T00:23:56 < qyx> maybe yes, because I found some ~70mm wide sockets
2020-10-21T00:24:23 < zyp> would fit my «tons of small arm nodes in a rack» time wasting project too
2020-10-21T00:25:40 < qyx> sounds good
2020-10-21T00:26:04 < qyx> how your lpc43xx with sdram?
2020-10-21T00:26:29 < qyx> did it end like my F7 with sdram?
2020-10-21T00:27:06 < zyp> it's in a box somewhere
2020-10-21T00:27:11 < qyx> at least I managed to boot the kernel :P
2020-10-21T00:27:29 < qyx> then it panics after running the first shell script using busybox
2020-10-21T00:28:04 < zyp> I ran into problems with the clocks and shit
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2020-10-21T00:28:30 < zyp> and other bullshit that makes lpc not really fun to work with
2020-10-21T00:28:36 < qyx> the next useless project is going to be stm32mp
2020-10-21T00:29:04 < zyp> :)
2020-10-21T00:29:31 < zyp> sadly I don't have time for useless projects at the moment
2020-10-21T00:29:45 < zyp> too much to do on useful projects :p
2020-10-21T00:30:02 < qyx> me neither, we are attempting to do a whole-country covid screening
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2020-10-21T00:32:28 < zyp> although I keep thinking about how to get my hands on a cheap electrical compressor that's big enough to run a rock drill but small enough I got enough power for it
2020-10-21T00:33:07 < qyx> so fridge compressor-based one is not an option then
2020-10-21T00:39:38 < BrainDamage> aren't most compressors on the weak side and all the power comes from the reserve tank?
2020-10-21T00:40:10 < zyp> qyx, I got a friend working in refrigeration joking about that, the stuff he works with would be big enough, but too much hassle :p
2020-10-21T00:40:44 < zyp> BrainDamage, for piston compressors that's the case, they are not designed to run at 100% duty
2020-10-21T00:40:47 < zyp> screw compressors are
2020-10-21T00:45:11 < qyx> zyp: I am not joking, you can buy such compressors for niche usecases
2020-10-21T00:45:24 < qyx> we were using them for test isntruments
2020-10-21T00:45:25 < zyp> yeah, I've seen those too
2020-10-21T00:46:09 < zyp> stuff like this: https://www.globaltools.no/trykkluft/kompressor/50l-kompressor
2020-10-21T00:46:39 < qyx> we had a 10L one in a lab
2020-10-21T00:46:43 < qyx> or so
2020-10-21T00:46:52 < zyp> 40l/min is not very impressive though
2020-10-21T00:47:16 < zyp> a typical cheap piston one will do three to five times that
2020-10-21T00:47:31 < zyp> and that's still an order of magnitude off from what I need :p
2020-10-21T00:47:59 < qyx> https://diamedicalusa.com/wp-content/uploads/2016/03/Amico-Silent-Air-Compressor-BT-C-COM-2G01.jpg
2020-10-21T00:48:02 < qyx> something like this
2020-10-21T00:48:13 < zyp> I got china to quote me a 7.5kW compressor with VFD: https://bin.jvnv.net/file/psF33.png
2020-10-21T00:48:24 < qyx> 400V?
2020-10-21T00:48:29 < zyp> yeah
2020-10-21T00:48:41 < qyx> air horse :D
2020-10-21T00:48:47 < zyp> but 1.1m3/min is still a bit on the low side
2020-10-21T00:48:50 < zyp> yeah, I love the name
2020-10-21T00:49:12 < zyp> https://bin.jvnv.net/file/pLKPt.pdf
2020-10-21T00:50:19 < zyp> the rock drill I've looked at is specced to something like 1.2-1.8 m3/min, so a 7.5kW compressor is probably gonna be a bit on the small side
2020-10-21T00:50:23 < qyx> what will you do with it when theres no rock left
2020-10-21T00:50:31 < zyp> sell it, I guess
2020-10-21T00:52:48 < qyx> pmsm inverter == bldc?
2020-10-21T00:52:56 < zyp> sounds like it
2020-10-21T00:53:26 < qyx> probably sounds better with the inverter buzzword
2020-10-21T00:54:02 < zyp> I was asking for the variant with frequency converter
2020-10-21T00:54:38 < zyp> I figure if I'm gonna run a huge compressor on the power I've got available, I need something that can start gently
2020-10-21T00:54:54 < qyx> how much do you have?
2020-10-21T00:54:57 < qyx> 32A?
2020-10-21T00:55:14 < zyp> the house inlet is 40A :p
2020-10-21T00:55:31 < qyx> so 3x16A in the power outlet?
2020-10-21T00:56:03 < zyp> well, I guess I could install a 32A outlet as long as I'm careful about not using a lot of power elsewhere at the same time :p
2020-10-21T00:56:40 < qyx> hm, even 3x16 should give you some margin
2020-10-21T00:56:48 < zyp> for 7.5kW, sure
2020-10-21T00:57:12 < zyp> 3x16 is 11kW, so for a 11kW compressor it might be too tight
2020-10-21T00:57:13 < qyx> and with vfd it should start even on B-characteristic breakers
2020-10-21T00:58:00 < zyp> I've also considered buying some old scrap like this and putting in a vfd: https://www.finn.no/bap/forsale/ad.html?finnkode=193265151
2020-10-21T00:58:44 < zyp> most of the small secondhand ones are wired for 230V, not 400V
2020-10-21T00:59:57 < qyx> rewiring the async for 400V?
2020-10-21T01:00:02 < zyp> but judging by the pics of that one it doesn't really have a lot of complicated magic
2020-10-21T01:00:05 < zyp> yeah
2020-10-21T01:00:21 < qyx> you could add a digital pressure transducer and PID it
2020-10-21T01:00:29 < zyp> yes
2020-10-21T01:00:34 < qyx> I have some optidrive vfd with pid control
2020-10-21T01:01:12 < zyp> I just wonder about the condition of the mechanics if I do something like that
2020-10-21T01:01:31 < qyx> huh it is 15kW wired for 230V?
2020-10-21T01:01:57 < qyx> whats the other connector for
2020-10-21T01:02:02 < zyp> yes
2020-10-21T01:02:03 < qyx> there are two
2020-10-21T01:02:08 < zyp> idk, dryer maybe
2020-10-21T01:02:15 < qyx> a 32A 230V IEC one
2020-10-21T01:02:17 < qyx> hm
2020-10-21T01:02:29 < zyp> nah, the small one is 16A
2020-10-21T01:02:40 < zyp> big one is probably 63A
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2020-10-21T01:03:21 < zyp> also, idk what it's for, end is hanging loose inside the control box :p
2020-10-21T01:04:04 < zyp> but I've seen other compressors with integrated dryer having a 3 phase supply for the compressor and a single phase supply for the dryer
2020-10-21T01:04:10 < karlp> hrm, i2c should always be opendrain with pullups on _both_ scl and sda right?
2020-10-21T01:04:36 < zyp> so I guess there might have been a dryer somewhere that went elsewhere
2020-10-21T01:04:38 < BrainDamage> you could not give a crap about wasted power and just add an overpressure valve
2020-10-21T01:05:09 < qyx> karlp: yeah otherwise no clock stretching snd stuff
2020-10-21T01:05:13 < zyp> BrainDamage, yeah, but I want to be able to start it
2020-10-21T01:05:32 < BrainDamage> giant cap bank?
2020-10-21T01:05:36 < zyp> karlp, in theory you can push-pull SCK if no slaves are stretching the clock
2020-10-21T01:06:01 < qyx> and if yes, kaboom
2020-10-21T01:06:04 < zyp> BrainDamage, meh, it'd give me an excuse to play with a VFD
2020-10-21T01:08:03 < BrainDamage> vacuum fluorescent display
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2020-10-21T01:09:52 < karlp> someone in #libopencm3 has two MCP9804s, wired straight together, no external pulls
2020-10-21T01:10:03 < karlp> they work if SDA is OD, and SCL is pushpull.
2020-10-21T01:10:07 < karlp> don't work if both are OD.
2020-10-21T01:10:20 < qyx> what clock freq?
2020-10-21T01:10:24 < karlp> 100k standard mode
2020-10-21T01:10:38 < qyx> with internal ~47k or whatever pull ups?
2020-10-21T01:10:52 < karlp> and the pin descripiton oddly (to me, the non-2c person) explicitly calls out external pullups required for SDA, but no mention for scl
2020-10-21T01:10:57 < karlp> yeah, just using internal pullups
2020-10-21T01:11:04 < karlp> which I suggested were probably too week
2020-10-21T01:11:39 < qyx> I would scope the thing, but I used MCP9808 in the past
2020-10-21T01:11:50 < qyx> but I don't remember if internal pullups or not
2020-10-21T01:12:44 < karlp> in other news, I got my usb controlled dac to pretend to be a mains meter, and can run my magic to pretend to be voltage and current now.
2020-10-21T01:12:55 < karlp> don't need the 10k test device in the office anymore....
2020-10-21T01:13:01 < karlp> (well, not for what I'm doing anyway)
2020-10-21T01:13:04 < zyp> :)
2020-10-21T01:13:07 < karlp> fakey fakey awesomeness.
2020-10-21T01:13:20 < karlp> it's actually my original 6 year old production calibration design, "just needs some sw!"
2020-10-21T01:13:36 < karlp> production ended up doing some very expensive shit, but... that's another story
2020-10-21T01:13:55 < qyx> NI PXI?
2020-10-21T01:13:59 < karlp> nah.
2020-10-21T01:14:08 < qyx> was that yes?
2020-10-21T01:14:43 < karlp> we hve a https://www.calmet.com.pl/en/power-calibrators-and-power-quality-calibrators/164-cp11b-power-calibrator-and-protection-relay-test-set
2020-10-21T01:15:09 < qyx> looks pro with the photoshopped lcd
2020-10-21T01:15:27 < karlp> eh, the screen is nice.  the three phase version don't have a screen
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2020-10-21T04:11:40 < karlp> weird thing with that i2c thing, they say that with hsi, OD on scl+sda works fine, stops working with hse,
2020-10-21T04:11:45 < karlp> which makes even less sense.
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2020-10-21T12:39:31 < Steffanx> Did the baby shaking stop yet, karlp?
2020-10-21T12:41:01 < karlp> eh, nothing else "big" like yesterday, but still active: https://en.vedur.is/earthquakes-and-volcanism/earthquakes/reykjanespeninsula/
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2020-10-21T14:58:22 < karlp> man this st virtual dev conference is such a shitty user experience
2020-10-21T15:05:27 < karlp> heh, was looking at making a board to test various bt socs, wsa thinking they'd plug into my board.
2020-10-21T15:05:43 < karlp> think best way is to make an arduino shield, as that's the interface on all the eval boards :)
2020-10-21T15:28:16 < karlp> st: "not having to use freertos is a feature" https://bin.jvnv.net/file/Ff5tQ.png
2020-10-21T16:33:31 < zyp> wat
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2020-10-21T16:39:04 < karlp> later slides show the code example of "hey, you just have this loop, and yhou call these functions 'often'"
2020-10-21T16:39:14 < karlp> and if yuou don't, it'ðs ok, yuou just don't get as much bt bandwidth...
2020-10-21T16:39:20 < karlp> it was not compelling :)
2020-10-21T16:41:31 < zyp> sounds reasonably easy to integrate though
2020-10-21T17:06:25 < jpa-> karlp: well, it *is* a feature, compared to e.g. NRF52 stuff that assert()s immediately if you dare to pause it in debugger :)
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2020-10-21T18:00:22 < Thorn> or compared to esp32 where you have to use freertos supplied with and preconfigured by the sdk
2020-10-21T18:05:47 < Cracki> is that just config variables, or do they also modify freertos source?
2020-10-21T18:06:20 < Cracki> yes they bring "their own" freertos but I hope that's just a copy of a dspecific version they picked and made the scaffolding work with it
2020-10-21T18:07:12 < jpa-> IIRC it is "who knows"
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2020-10-21T18:36:57 < Thorn> has anyone thought about making a driver configuration system for bare metal / rtos similar to devicetree but more lightweight?
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2020-10-21T18:45:57 < mawk> what's wrong with dt
2020-10-21T19:04:35 < leibniz[m]> Can gdb write a binary file directly to the flash?
2020-10-21T19:04:35 < leibniz[m]> https://sourceware.org/gdb/onlinedocs/gdb/Dump_002fRestore-Files.html
2020-10-21T19:04:35 < leibniz[m]> It seems it can but due to my testings and a blog post it doesn't
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2020-10-21T19:08:36 < steverrrr> leibniz[m] I'd assume yes, I've used openocd standalone for binary+offset, and gdb+openocd for hex files using "load"
2020-10-21T19:08:53 < Steffanx> https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2020-10-21/huawei-china-firms-are-said-to-seek-curbs-on-nvidia-s-arm-deal lol
2020-10-21T19:09:45 < leibniz[m]> steverrrr: openOCD works fine. Problem is with GDB. restore main.bin binary 0x08000000  Restoring binary file main.bin into memory (0x8000000 to 0x8000e24)   Writing to flash memory forbidden in this context
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2020-10-21T19:13:18 < steverrrr> after googling, guess you're right, I just never ran into that
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2020-10-21T19:14:52 < steverrrr> gdb also disapointed me that I can't load 1 specific section inside of an ELF, only the whole ELF can be loaded
2020-10-21T19:15:26 < leibniz[m]> steverrrr: That moment when openOCD beats the venerable GDB PaulFertser :D
2020-10-21T19:16:40 < steverrrr> don't think openocd can do it but it is close.  ie. there are literally routines in openocd that have already implemented it, but it has not been wrapped in a separate command exposed to the UI
2020-10-21T19:21:18 < leibniz[m]> steverrrr: With openOCD its like : openocd -f interface/ft232r.cfg -f board/stm32f103c8_blue_pill.cfg -c "program $(BINARY).bin verify reset exit 0x08000000"
2020-10-21T19:24:21 < steverrrr> I was refrerring to the loading of a single section
2020-10-21T19:26:25 < leibniz[m]> ah
2020-10-21T19:29:31 < steverrrr> just stick a bin2hex in your build script I suppose
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2020-10-21T20:09:19 < leibniz[m]> steverrrr: yeah I suppose I can do something with arm-none-eabi-objcopy...
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2020-10-21T20:42:39 < steverrrr> right, I should have said elf2hex ie. objcopy
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2020-10-21T21:25:32 < machinehum> I installed ubuntu on a pi because a project demanded it
2020-10-21T21:29:09 < jadew> lol euro has negative interest rates
2020-10-21T21:30:20 < Steffanx> Dont die machinehum 
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2020-10-21T22:10:09 < machinehum> ubuntu@ubuntu:~$ htop
2020-10-21T22:10:11 < machinehum> Error opening terminal: xterm-termite.
2020-10-21T22:10:13 < machinehum> y
2020-10-21T22:10:30 < machinehum> Who the fuck is organising this shit
2020-10-21T22:10:48 < machinehum> Opened the .bashrc - 200 lines of bullshit
2020-10-21T22:10:55 < machinehum> jadew: oh shit
2020-10-21T22:12:33 < mawk> you can write into flash if it's erased before I think leibniz[m] 
2020-10-21T22:12:38 < mawk> but you can issue the erase commands with oocd
2020-10-21T22:13:24 < leibniz[m]> mawk: I was looking for a one-liner alternative to Oocd command I mentioned...
2020-10-21T22:13:39 < mawk> why
2020-10-21T22:14:01 < steverrrr> monitor $yourcommand
2020-10-21T22:14:02 < leibniz[m]> mawk: to cleanly modify a makefile which was assuming st-link
2020-10-21T22:14:41 < leibniz[m]> machinehum: ubuntu's bashrc is 200 lines?
2020-10-21T22:15:11 < machinehum> for some bonehead reason, yes
2020-10-21T22:19:17 < leibniz[m]> machinehum: Is this 20.04? Or some special version for RBpi?
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2020-10-21T22:24:45 < machinehum> It's the rpi version
2020-10-21T22:42:42 < machinehum> If I'm using an STM as a usb device... what do I do with the ID pin
2020-10-21T22:42:51 < machinehum> The internet is all over the place on that one
2020-10-21T22:43:23 < machinehum> I believe it should be unconnected
2020-10-21T22:44:04 < machinehum> But the blue pill gnded it https://image.easyeda.com/histories/f91e9cede2284268b11f976c1e5a62f6.png
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2020-10-21T22:51:32 < zyp> machinehum, on the socket? if you're not using it it doesn't matter
2020-10-21T22:52:16 < machinehum> on the usb jack on the stm side
2020-10-21T22:52:21 < machinehum> so yeah I guess the socket
2020-10-21T22:53:17 < zyp> the ID pin is either grounded or unconnected in the plug to signal whether it's an A-end or B-end of a cable, that way a device can connect it to a pullup and sense it
2020-10-21T22:53:56 < zyp> if you are not sensing it, it doesn't matter at all whether you ground it or leave it, it's either gonna be grounded or unconnected in the plug anyway
2020-10-21T22:54:59 < zyp> it only matters for OTG devices, they use it to switch to host mode when they detect an A end and device mode when they detect a B end
2020-10-21T22:55:17 < machinehum> Shit, got it.
2020-10-21T22:55:24 < machinehum> Yeah that makes sense
2020-10-21T22:55:27 < machinehum> ty
2020-10-21T22:55:29 < zyp> and this is 2020, you wouldn't use micro usb for anything OTG anyway
2020-10-21T22:55:41 < machinehum> USB-C?
2020-10-21T22:55:43 < zyp> yeah
2020-10-21T22:55:52 < machinehum> Right
2020-10-21T22:55:55 < zyp> I mean, I probably would use usb-c on anything
2020-10-21T22:55:58 < machinehum> OTG was kinda a hack anyways
2020-10-21T22:56:16 < machinehum> Meh
2020-10-21T22:56:31 < zyp> eh, OTG is fine, it's just that the new mechanism in usb-c does it better
2020-10-21T22:57:33 < machinehum> The diode on the power line needed?
2020-10-21T22:57:40 < machinehum> In the schematic I posed
2020-10-21T22:58:33 < machinehum> And is it really necessary to put TVS dioides across all the datalines and shit, I worked with an engineer that was obsessed with those things
2020-10-21T22:59:38 < zyp> no and no but either might be good depending on what you're doing
2020-10-21T23:00:12 < zyp> the diode is useful if your 5V rail can be powered from other sources, you don't want it feeding back out of your device unintentionally
2020-10-21T23:00:25 < zyp> but completely useless for devices that can only be powered through USB
2020-10-21T23:00:30 < machinehum> Yeah makes sense
2020-10-21T23:01:22 < zyp> TVS diodes are good practice, but plenty of stuff works fine without
2020-10-21T23:01:56 < zyp> I tend to omit them
2020-10-21T23:02:33 < machinehum> This isn't a lifesaving device
2020-10-21T23:02:37 < machinehum> should be fine
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2020-10-21T23:36:59 < Laurenceb> https://twitter.com/calvinrobinson/status/1318624835937931265
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2020-10-22T00:13:37 < karlp> otg is awesome, and the dual role totally laid the foundation for usb-c
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2020-10-22T00:39:42 < qyx> are you here, RF pros?
2020-10-22T00:41:11 < Steffanx> Always
2020-10-22T00:41:15 < Steffanx>  But not me
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2020-10-22T00:46:36 < zyp> not sure I'd call old style otg awesome, but it had its uses
2020-10-22T00:47:11 < zyp> IMO it suffered from requiring special cables/adapters/whatever
2020-10-22T00:49:05 < zyp> along with the whole «spec says AB sockets and A plugs but in practice most manufacturers use otg-capable B sockets and A-coded B plugs» bullshit
2020-10-22T00:50:10 < GenTooMan> hmm still not sure OTG was well thought out it can be a bit of a pain.
2020-10-22T00:50:21 < zyp> in what sense?
2020-10-22T00:50:37 < ds2> strictly speaking, it doesn't... in practice, that OTG connector thing has to do with limited SW support
2020-10-22T00:51:04 < zyp> ds2, what thing?
2020-10-22T00:51:11 < ds2> the connector issue you pointed out
2020-10-22T00:51:23 < zyp> how so?
2020-10-22T00:51:32 < ds2> OTG supports role switching so in SW could force a role switch
2020-10-22T00:51:44 < ds2> the connectors determine initial conditions
2020-10-22T00:52:11 < qyx> lets say I want to measure distance between two antennas with a sub-mm resolution without needing super-precise time sync between them
2020-10-22T00:52:14 < ds2> but good luck finding stable drivers for most IPs that handle role swapping reliably :D
2020-10-22T00:52:24 < zyp> ds2, ah, you mean HNP
2020-10-22T00:52:27 < ds2> qyx: what frequency
2020-10-22T00:52:38 < ds2> zyp: yes, those obscure little features
2020-10-22T00:52:42 < qyx> ds2: ISM 433 or 868
2020-10-22T00:52:49 < jadew> saw a good movie on netflix
2020-10-22T00:52:52 < jadew> Anna
2020-10-22T00:52:58 < zyp> HNP is only relevant if you are connecting two OTG devices together
2020-10-22T00:53:01 < qyx> or 5G, avoiding 2.4G
2020-10-22T00:53:05 < jadew> good in the sense that it was entertaining
2020-10-22T00:53:38 < ds2> SW can force host mode
2020-10-22T00:54:01 < qyx> my idea is to generate, lets say n Hz and n+5 Hz signal, mixing them together giving me 5 Hz beat freq
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2020-10-22T00:54:07 < ds2> buggy but it has been doen for example on the Nokia N900 w/OMAP3430 SoC (MUSB IP)
2020-10-22T00:54:10 < qyx> and then transmitting both, receiving botn
2020-10-22T00:54:27 < qyx> and mixing them on the receiver giving me the same 5 Hz beat
2020-10-22T00:54:59 < qyx> if I understand that correctly, these two beat signals should be phase delayed
2020-10-22T00:55:05 < zyp> ds2, sure, but I don't see the relevancy
2020-10-22T00:55:06 < qyx> depending on the distance between the antennas
2020-10-22T00:55:29 < ds2> zyp: that'd avoid the connector issue.
2020-10-22T00:55:41 < zyp> what connector issue?
2020-10-22T00:55:51 < qyx> measuring phase delay of a 5 Hz signal is sufficiently easy with GNSS or other means
2020-10-22T00:55:51 < ds2> miniA vs miniB vs miniAB
2020-10-22T00:55:59 < ds2> bbl, call
2020-10-22T00:56:12 < zyp> not really
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2020-10-22T00:57:29 < jadew> qyx, you can't measure it with just the one signal
2020-10-22T00:58:12 < jadew> also, you'll have to do the math on the required phase noise, if you want sub-mm precision
2020-10-22T00:58:28 < qyx> no, I want two signals with slightly different freq
2020-10-22T00:58:44 < jadew> yeah, but you can't tell distance with just one frequency
2020-10-22T00:58:45 < qyx> so, depending on the distance, they will be slightly out of phase
2020-10-22T00:58:58 < qyx> I want to detect the change only
2020-10-22T00:59:03 < jadew> you need multiple frequencies in order to derive distance
2020-10-22T00:59:07 < jadew> ah
2020-10-22T00:59:07 < zyp> ds2, if you've got two otg devices both using otg capable B connectors and you have a standard compliant cable with A and B plugs, you can't get it to physically fit in either direction, no matter how much HNP support you've got
2020-10-22T00:59:54 < qyx> jadew: I mean, I don§t want absolute distance, the distance reading may repeat after 2*pi of phase or whatever, I just need the range to be, lets say +-200mm
2020-10-22T01:00:04 < jadew> well, if you only care about the change and you're looking at sub-mm change, you have to first figure out the phase noise specifications, to make sure it's attainable
2020-10-22T01:00:58 < qyx> is it easy or should I just prototype it and see?
2020-10-22T01:01:34 < jadew> it's easy, look up the formula for jitter to phase noise
2020-10-22T01:02:21 < jadew> then figure out how much time you have for the resolution you're after
2020-10-22T01:02:42 < jadew> plug that in and then figure out if you can make/find an oscillator that good
2020-10-22T01:03:31 < zyp> reminds me of when we were doing rocket ranging
2020-10-22T01:03:37 < qyx> ok I'll look into it
2020-10-22T01:03:48 < qyx> whats the best way of generating two similar freqs?
2020-10-22T01:04:07 < qyx> I have seen two vctcxo tuned to be slightly off
2020-10-22T01:04:28 < zyp> rocket transmitter had a TCXO, ground station had a frequency synth that got tuned to exact transmitter freq before launch
2020-10-22T01:04:33 < mawk> mixing qyx ?
2020-10-22T01:04:42 < zyp> then phase comparator to measure range
2020-10-22T01:04:46 < mawk> maybe not
2020-10-22T01:04:46 < Laurenceb> this sounds like muh shit
2020-10-22T01:04:51 < Laurenceb> what are you making?
2020-10-22T01:05:13 < qyx> zyp: to measure the distance?
2020-10-22T01:05:19 < zyp> yes
2020-10-22T01:05:28 < Laurenceb> distance between two antenna without another time base?
2020-10-22T01:05:31 < Laurenceb> ouch
2020-10-22T01:05:42 < qyx> without another *precise* time base
2020-10-22T01:05:49 < Laurenceb> unless you can bounce a signal
2020-10-22T01:05:49 < zyp> probably not sub-mm precision though
2020-10-22T01:05:56 < Laurenceb> are either of them moving?
2020-10-22T01:06:15 < mawk> there is a load_breast_cancer function in this python lib
2020-10-22T01:06:19 < Laurenceb> lmao
2020-10-22T01:06:21 < zyp> they have to be if there's a point in measuring relative distance
2020-10-22T01:06:29 < mawk> https://scikit-learn.org/stable/modules/generated/sklearn.datasets.load_breast_cancer.html#sklearn.datasets.load_breast_cancer
2020-10-22T01:06:32 < qyx> no
2020-10-22T01:06:39 < qyx> I mean not fast enough
2020-10-22T01:06:43 < Laurenceb> ok
2020-10-22T01:06:50 < qyx> there should be a single beacon and a bunch of receivers
2020-10-22T01:07:05 < qyx> they will be about 100-500m apart
2020-10-22T01:07:06 < Laurenceb> do receivers have internet or gps?
2020-10-22T01:07:25 < qyx> receiver may move by few mm per hour mnax
2020-10-22T01:07:50 < qyx> receivers should be battery operated, they may contain gps and lora
2020-10-22T01:07:58 < zyp> qyx, you're reinventing something like DME?
2020-10-22T01:08:11 < Laurenceb> is receivers have gps or even ntp connection you should be able to create a stable timebase using leobodnar type techniques
2020-10-22T01:08:27 < Laurenceb> stabilised tcxo and lots of filtering
2020-10-22T01:08:38 < qyx> zyp: not exactly
2020-10-22T01:08:55 < qyx> I don't need absolute distance and I need to power the thing with battery
2020-10-22T01:09:23 < zyp> hmm, I think I'm starting to get it
2020-10-22T01:09:33 < Laurenceb> you could measure phase at two frequencies
2020-10-22T01:09:55 < qyx> thats the plan
2020-10-22T01:10:20 < qyx> I wanted to mix the frequencies both on the transmitter and on receivers
2020-10-22T01:10:27 < qyx> to obtain low-Hz signal to work with
2020-10-22T01:10:39 < Laurenceb> hmm nice
2020-10-22T01:10:51 < Laurenceb> ... maybe
2020-10-22T01:11:02 < qyx> maybe :P
2020-10-22T01:11:25 < Laurenceb> I'm not sure this works
2020-10-22T01:11:42 < zyp> no, I'm not getting it, I don't see what two frequencies gives you over a single frequency
2020-10-22T01:11:53 < Laurenceb> yeah
2020-10-22T01:12:08 < zyp> even if you mix two freqs, you still need to compare the result against a precise reference
2020-10-22T01:12:14 < qyx> lest have two signals, 50 and 51 Hz
2020-10-22T01:12:32 < qyx> the key point is the two signals transmitted together will get different phase offset on the receiver
2020-10-22T01:12:37 < qyx> because different wavelengths
2020-10-22T01:12:45 < qyx> now the problem is how to detect that
2020-10-22T01:12:57 < qyx> yes, I need to compare
2020-10-22T01:13:15 < qyx> but comparing 1 Hz beat freequency in this case is much easier than comparing 50 and 51 Hz
2020-10-22T01:13:18 < zyp> how so? the phase offset is what gives you a 1MHz wave after mixing
2020-10-22T01:13:42 < qyx> no, the frequency offset
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2020-10-22T01:13:55 < zyp> same same
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2020-10-22T01:14:04 < Laurenceb> >transmitted together
2020-10-22T01:14:06 < zyp> frequency and phase are two sides of the same thing
2020-10-22T01:14:06 < Laurenceb> nah thats impossible
2020-10-22T01:14:07 < qyx> if the target is not moving (causing doppler effect), the beat freq will be the same
2020-10-22T01:14:19 < qyx> how so
2020-10-22T01:14:26 < qyx> the freq may be the same but not the phase
2020-10-22T01:14:40 < qyx> the freq difference will be the same of course
2020-10-22T01:14:52 < Laurenceb> if you have multiple base stations in known locations you could compare phases
2020-10-22T01:14:57 < Laurenceb> otherwise no
2020-10-22T01:15:48 < Laurenceb> I made a rocket tracker that could reconstruct trajectory using dumb CW beacon and single ground station, but it relied on movement
2020-10-22T01:16:02 < Laurenceb> with ~strationary stations it gets a lot harder
2020-10-22T01:16:54 < Laurenceb> lol this https://forum.nasaspaceflight.com/index.php?topic=2902.40
2020-10-22T01:17:03 < Laurenceb> >$3M/paper
2020-10-22T01:17:11  * Laurenceb throws babbyshake at them
2020-10-22T01:17:21 < Laurenceb> >$5M/0 publications
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2020-10-22T01:19:24 < jadew> qyx, I think it could work, but I don't know about the accuracy
2020-10-22T01:21:00 < zyp> I still don't see the benefit of transmitting two freqs, either way you end up comparing the remote oscillator to the local one
2020-10-22T01:21:32 < Laurenceb> yeah
2020-10-22T01:21:42 < jadew> zyp, the phase difference between the two signals will be different if you move
2020-10-22T01:22:20 < qyx> hm
2020-10-22T01:22:56 < Laurenceb> jadew: nope
2020-10-22T01:23:04 < jadew> Laurenceb, sure it will
2020-10-22T01:23:12 < Laurenceb> the phase difference changes all the time
2020-10-22T01:23:21 < Laurenceb> frequencies arent the same so it changes
2020-10-22T01:23:24 < zyp> what Laurenceb said
2020-10-22T01:23:36 < jadew> Laurenceb, it doesn't if they're multiples
2020-10-22T01:23:40 < Laurenceb> your only hope is to do bidirectional
2020-10-22T01:23:42 < jadew> for example 10 and 100
2020-10-22T01:23:47 < Laurenceb> or multiple base stations
2020-10-22T01:24:16 < qyx> I am thinking about the question of using two freqs
2020-10-22T01:24:49 < qyx> no I cannot use single freq
2020-10-22T01:24:49 < jadew> qyx, should be easy enough to test this anyway
2020-10-22T01:24:54 < jadew> I would have started with that
2020-10-22T01:25:38 < qyx> if I used a single freq I would need to have a super precise synchronised freq references
2020-10-22T01:25:59 < jadew> I'm off to bed, night
2020-10-22T01:26:02 < qyx> otherwise the phase would drift together with my measuremnt
2020-10-22T01:26:02 < zyp> I still don't see the logic
2020-10-22T01:26:08 < qyx> jadew: gn
2020-10-22T01:26:53 < qyx> the basic point is generate whatever you want and make a diff, because it is hard to work with 2.4G directly
2020-10-22T01:26:57 < bitmask> if you were gonna buy rgb leds would you get milky or clear
2020-10-22T01:27:09 < karlp> depends where I was installing them?
2020-10-22T01:27:16 < bitmask> hmm
2020-10-22T01:27:28 < qyx> another key point is to transmit those two signals to the remote receiver, so the phase is not dependent on the local iscillator
2020-10-22T01:27:31 < zyp> the signal you observe where you are now is the same signal you'd observe in a microsecond 300m away, or in a nanosecond 30cm away, phase difference and everything
2020-10-22T01:27:38  * karlp decides to order .cz to ship shit, before they all go to hospital
2020-10-22T01:28:00 < qyx> zyp: the heterodyne is the point
2020-10-22T01:28:03 < qyx> it preserves the phase
2020-10-22T01:28:21 < qyx> while lengthening the period/lowering the freq
2020-10-22T01:29:37 < qyx> I don't mean those 300m
2020-10-22T01:29:37 < zyp> but what difference does that make?
2020-10-22T01:29:55 < qyx> the difference is I don't need to compare sub-ps phase offsets
2020-10-22T01:30:05 < qyx> and thats the point
2020-10-22T01:30:31 < qyx> by downconverting both signals I get much larger values to work with
2020-10-22T01:30:44 < zyp> aren't you still bottlenecked by your oscillator accuracies though?
2020-10-22T01:31:11 < qyx> I identified only one thing you need to compensate
2020-10-22T01:31:21 < qyx> the freq difference of the two signals
2020-10-22T01:31:30 < qyx> because it defines you the full-phase range
2020-10-22T01:31:44 < qyx> you will measure offset of, say 23 ms
2020-10-22T01:31:54 < qyx> but you need to know the range
2020-10-22T01:32:04 < qyx> and you can measure it by measuring the beat frequency
2020-10-22T01:32:27 < qyx> at least, I suppose
2020-10-22T01:32:34 < karlp> paypal asks me for a phone number to make things more secure, while that popup is still active, redirects me to a page saying it's sending a text to my (correct) phone number to verify login
2020-10-22T01:32:37 < karlp> wtf guys.
2020-10-22T01:32:45 < qyx> I can prototype it on a stm32 nucleo :P
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2020-10-22T04:33:41 < ds2> is a microA to microB cable allowed? thought it had to make a stop at a full size connector 
2020-10-22T04:33:56 < ds2> ie microB to full A 
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2020-10-22T04:38:48 < Laurenceb> Lauren Southern had a babby
2020-10-22T04:38:48 < Laurenceb> a big babby
2020-10-22T04:38:49 < Laurenceb> a big black babby
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2020-10-22T05:08:15 < laurence_> Lauren Southern had a babby
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2020-10-22T10:13:07 < zyp> ds2, sure it is allowed, why would you need a full size connector when neither end has a full size socket?
2020-10-22T10:17:09 < mawk> ds2: they even do cables that are not allowed
2020-10-22T10:17:14 < mawk> like male male cables
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2020-10-22T10:59:54 < jpa-> ds2: microA is pretty much deprecated though
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2020-10-22T11:33:41 < ds2> zyp: I think it comes down to how the ID pin is defined
2020-10-22T11:34:32 < ds2> ID on the host side needs to be grounded but floated on the device side... that can't exists as a cable so is it defined to be controlled solely at the plug?
2020-10-22T11:40:23 < jpa-> in micro-B to micro-B cables, one side is labeled as "host" and the plug has ground and id connected, and the cable has only 4 wires
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2020-10-22T12:34:23 < Steffanx> What usb cable do you identify as jpa-?
2020-10-22T12:46:17 < jadew> zyp, the way that thing from last night works, is that if you have two signals that are in phase, but of different frequency, and you sample them at an in-phase rate (doesn't have to be, but let's say it is for this argument), then the phase difference between the two signals is going to vary depending on where you are
2020-10-22T12:47:39 < jadew> you downconvert (which preserves the phase information) and then sample whatever you have there, at an independent phase (you don't trigger on one of them)
2020-10-22T12:49:06 < jadew> you account for frequency difference between the clock you use for sampling and the incoming crap, and what you're left with is two phase values, you take the difference and compute the distance based on that
2020-10-22T12:50:05 < jadew> and the advantage of doing it with two signals, instead of one, is that you don't need the source and the receiver to be in perfect sync, since the two signals are in sync already
2020-10-22T12:51:45 < jadew> unless I'm missing something, it sounds like it should work
2020-10-22T13:08:07 < karlp> how is something "in phase" and a different frequncy?
2020-10-22T13:10:15 < jadew> you can compensate for that
2020-10-22T13:10:24 < jadew> ah, you mean the two signals
2020-10-22T13:10:27 < jadew> simple
2020-10-22T13:10:50 -!- jsoft [~jsoft@unaffiliated/jsoft] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds]
2020-10-22T13:10:53 < jadew> consider f and 2f
2020-10-22T13:11:04 < karlp> well, that's a multiple
2020-10-22T13:11:06 < jadew> f -> 2f will be the same
2020-10-22T13:11:07 < jadew> yeah
2020-10-22T13:11:23 < jadew> they won't be in phase all the time, but if you use f as reference
2020-10-22T13:11:29 < jadew> then you will get consistent phase differences
2020-10-22T13:12:50 < karlp> if they're not a multiple though it will just be continuously scrolling past.
2020-10-22T13:13:06 < jadew> well, you could compensate for that too
2020-10-22T13:13:16 < jadew> assuming the incoming two signals will be locked to the same clock
2020-10-22T13:13:23 < jadew> and you know the frequency they're supposed to be
2020-10-22T13:13:57 < jadew> you should be able to calculate how fast it should "scroll by"
2020-10-22T13:14:56 < karlp> but you don't know where in that scrolling it should be at any given point, or are you suggersting that by finding the current phase, you can get the time back again?
2020-10-22T13:15:32 < jadew> let's say you lock on f
2020-10-22T13:16:04 < jadew> once you measure f + x once, you will know where it is and where it has to be 1 second from now
2020-10-22T13:16:35 < jadew> so you use that information to "stabilize it"
2020-10-22T13:16:48 < karlp> so... what are you doing for a) lock on f, and b) measuring where the phase of the second f is?
2020-10-22T13:17:08 < jadew> yeah
2020-10-22T13:19:13 < jadew> anyway, santa came early: http://188.26.15.195/stuff/20201022_130535_.jpg
2020-10-22T13:19:55 < jadew> Steffanx, are the screws recessed enough now?
2020-10-22T13:20:43 < Steffanx> pretty much yeah
2020-10-22T13:20:54 < jadew> I didn't like the previous ones either for the same reason
2020-10-22T13:21:07 < Steffanx> lol, why does this uart peripheral 
2020-10-22T13:21:13 < Steffanx> have a scratch pad register?
2020-10-22T13:22:08 < Steffanx> It say something like "It temporarily holds the programmer's data without affecting UART operation"
2020-10-22T13:22:18 < jadew> haha
2020-10-22T13:22:30 < jadew> it probably has a use
2020-10-22T13:22:43 < jadew> you can store secrets there
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2020-10-22T13:36:06 < mawk> it's pretty common Steffanx 
2020-10-22T13:36:17 < mawk> probably legacy
2020-10-22T13:36:20 < mawk> PC platform UART has the same
2020-10-22T13:36:38 < englishman> Philips head screws? very unprofessional
2020-10-22T13:36:46  * karlp hi5s englishman
2020-10-22T13:37:19 < mawk> Steffanx: https://wiki.osdev.org/Serial_Ports#Programming_the_Serial_Communications_Port
2020-10-22T13:41:28 < Steffanx> 16550 shit i guess mawk
2020-10-22T13:41:56 < mawk> yes
2020-10-22T13:42:01 < mawk> something like this
2020-10-22T13:42:20 < mawk> maybe used to store data after processor reboot
2020-10-22T13:43:00 < mawk> or just they had a spare register and didn't know what to do with it
2020-10-22T13:43:09 < Steffanx> im not oldskool enough i guess
2020-10-22T13:43:21 < mawk> you should try
2020-10-22T13:43:32 < mawk> mcus are overrated, PC is the one true platform
2020-10-22T13:57:36 < englishman> I agree mawk, technology takes about 20 years to cross the Atlantic
2020-10-22T13:58:25 -!- Streaker [~Streaker@unaffiliated/streaker] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds]
2020-10-22T13:58:43 < Steffanx> Yeah, all that because Canucks arent allowed in dutchland atm
2020-10-22T13:59:06 < mawk> you already tried to target bare metal x86 Steffanx ?
2020-10-22T13:59:08 < mawk> lol
2020-10-22T13:59:10 < mawk> lot of cool stuff is french
2020-10-22T13:59:12 < mawk> caml, coq, formally verified C
2020-10-22T13:59:14 < mawk> from INRIA
2020-10-22T13:59:16 < mawk> and don't forget Fabrice Bellard
2020-10-22T13:59:33 < Steffanx> Canuck french obviously
2020-10-22T13:59:34 < jadew> englishman, best ones I could find for that location
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2020-10-22T13:59:54 < englishman> Fabrice is always a French dandy with chest length blonde hair
2020-10-22T14:00:20 < mawk> lol
2020-10-22T14:00:35 < mawk> he's bald
2020-10-22T14:00:43 < karlp> you're forgetting these fabulous canuck frenchies: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UMPC8QJF6sI&app=desktop
2020-10-22T14:00:47 < mawk> and nerdy
2020-10-22T14:01:15 < mawk> but I have chest length hair englishman 
2020-10-22T14:01:20 < mawk> not quite blonde but almost
2020-10-22T14:01:31 < mawk> but I'm no Fabrice
2020-10-22T14:04:42 < karlp> "can't compile on haikuos -> get a real os then..."
2020-10-22T14:06:36 < englishman> my shit didn't pass emc immunity
2020-10-22T14:06:54 < englishman> pretty much the whole band <1g
2020-10-22T14:07:17  * karlp crosses englishman off his list of potential outsourcers.... ;)
2020-10-22T14:07:22 < jadew> power supply or something else?
2020-10-22T14:07:33 < englishman> Besides usb dropping sometimes, mostly nV perturbations in the analogue input
2020-10-22T14:07:42 < englishman> everything else was ok
2020-10-22T14:07:51 < englishman> industrial 10v/m
2020-10-22T14:08:22 < jadew> ah, immunity
2020-10-22T14:08:37 < englishman> actually I have to go and calculate today if the perturbations are in spec but they are probably not
2020-10-22T14:09:04 < englishman> oh it passed emissions easily by like 15dB
2020-10-22T14:09:19 < Steffanx> ohno, will you get fired now englishman?
2020-10-22T14:09:28 < englishman> I hope so
2020-10-22T14:09:33 < Steffanx> Excellent
2020-10-22T14:09:37 < englishman> then I can become a mailman like I always wanted
2020-10-22T14:11:27 < Steffanx> No bus driver?
2020-10-22T14:12:26 < englishman> bus is a 4 letter word
2020-10-22T14:17:02 < Steffanx> Achso. 
2020-10-22T14:17:28 < karlp> bus is a four letter word?
2020-10-22T14:20:59 < benishor> friend is a four letter word
2020-10-22T14:25:58 < jadew> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0xkg0-bc3dw
2020-10-22T14:36:05 < Steffanx> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Four-letter_word that i guess karlp
2020-10-22T14:38:06 < jadew> most of those are neither vulgar nor offensive
2020-10-22T14:42:08 < jadew> https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/slut#/media/File:SlutWalk_NYC_October_2011_Shankbone_16.JPG
2020-10-22T14:43:20 < jadew> "slut" sounds the worst to my ears
2020-10-22T15:02:20 < Cracki> the words aren't insulting, the people are
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2020-10-22T15:07:40 < karlp> man, renode calling 32bits a "double word" is fucking confusing
2020-10-22T15:11:16 -!- Laurenceb [2ed0b10b@11.177.208.46.dyn.plus.net] has joined ##stm32
2020-10-22T15:11:23 < Laurenceb> sheeet I found the jerbs in uk
2020-10-22T15:11:39 < Laurenceb> >wondered why there was a shit selection of jerbs on job sites
2020-10-22T15:11:47 < Laurenceb> >someone said everything was outsourced
2020-10-22T15:11:55 < Laurenceb> >check serco site
2020-10-22T15:12:00 < Laurenceb> >thousands of jerbs
2020-10-22T15:12:14 < Laurenceb> uk is weird
2020-10-22T15:12:55 < Steffanx> You should not believe everything said on facebook.
2020-10-22T15:13:45 -!- Amun_Ra [~amun-ra@retro.rocks] has joined ##stm32
2020-10-22T15:14:54 < Laurenceb> keeek I was on faceberg earlier
2020-10-22T15:15:10 < Laurenceb> some wine aunt had uploaded photos of "her horse"
2020-10-22T15:15:38 < Laurenceb> it was clearly a 20cm tall model in some short grass, but there were hundreds of comments about how cute it was
2020-10-22T15:16:47 < karlp> whee, renode updates now support timers properly.
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2020-10-22T15:44:52 < mawk> can you bend spoons with your mind Steffanx ?
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2020-10-22T16:29:15 < Steffanx> No, Uri didnt like me, mawk
2020-10-22T16:31:45 < mawk> I'm doing radar Steffanx 
2020-10-22T16:31:53 < mawk> I'm tracking palestinians from a drone
2020-10-22T16:31:58 < mawk> no actually just grain in a silo
2020-10-22T16:32:10 < mawk> I am modern day alchemist
2020-10-22T16:32:21 < mawk> turn shit sensor data into gold
2020-10-22T16:32:44 < mawk> because "fixing it in software" is the magic wand for every hardware problem
2020-10-22T16:32:54 < mawk> then when I cannot do it because it's impossible they will fire me
2020-10-22T16:32:57 < mawk> end of story
2020-10-22T16:34:00 < Steffanx> yay
2020-10-22T16:34:02 < Steffanx> finally
2020-10-22T16:34:09 < mawk> :(
2020-10-22T16:34:24 < Steffanx> lolol
2020-10-22T16:34:30 < mawk> I'll come in your company
2020-10-22T16:34:33 < mawk> don't worry
2020-10-22T16:34:36 < Steffanx> fine
2020-10-22T16:34:59 < Steffanx> My manager will like you
2020-10-22T16:35:02 < mawk> lol
2020-10-22T16:35:08 < mawk> he's a rightwing extremistt oo?
2020-10-22T16:35:21 < Steffanx> Not even close
2020-10-22T16:35:26 < mawk> he likes long hair maybe
2020-10-22T16:35:29 < mawk> and is gay
2020-10-22T16:35:43 < mawk> did you know 100% of the gays I know tried at least once to have sex with me
2020-10-22T16:35:44 < mawk> I am gay magnet
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2020-10-22T16:35:52 < mawk> well Cracki didn't try but that's just because he's shy I think
2020-10-22T16:37:49 < Steffanx> so make the move.
2020-10-22T16:38:08 < Cracki> I will drown you all in holy water
2020-10-22T16:45:08 < mawk> lol
2020-10-22T16:47:25 < mawk> Steffanx: https://youtu.be/6kVPKlJXR48
2020-10-22T16:47:32 < mawk> a track with mammouth samples
2020-10-22T16:47:38 < mawk> to make the melody
2020-10-22T16:48:58 < Steffanx> closed.
2020-10-22T16:49:01 < mawk> what
2020-10-22T16:49:07 < mawk> the samples don't even start until 2 minutes or so
2020-10-22T16:49:10 < mawk> you cannot close it
2020-10-22T16:49:24 < mawk> just sit through the intri
2020-10-22T16:49:27 < mawk> intro
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2020-10-22T16:51:35 < mawk> it's french hardcore
2020-10-22T16:51:40 < mawk> dj radium and another guy
2020-10-22T16:52:01 < Steffanx> Lies. its 56 seconds.
2020-10-22T16:52:08 < mawk> lol
2020-10-22T16:52:09 < Steffanx> then i had to close it
2020-10-22T16:52:21 < mawk> the real melody starts later
2020-10-22T16:52:29 < Steffanx> there is no melody
2020-10-22T16:52:31 < Steffanx> lol
2020-10-22T16:52:33 < mawk> of course there is
2020-10-22T16:52:42 < mawk> there isn't worst deaf than the one who doesn't want to listen
2020-10-22T16:54:26 < Steffanx> There is no need to listen when you already know what is coming
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2020-10-22T17:05:29 < mawk> you don't
2020-10-22T17:05:31 < mawk> it's never the same
2020-10-22T17:05:40 < mawk> it's a constant amazing replenishment of infinite creativity
2020-10-22T17:06:45 < mawk> which could be the epitome of hardcore
2020-10-22T17:16:09 < mawk> https://youtu.be/hzKcfDNByB8
2020-10-22T17:22:22 < benishor> oh damn, that rave
2020-10-22T17:22:45 < benishor> I'd rather have this instead https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WxhTbxMSvT0
2020-10-22T17:23:26 < mawk> but they're israelis!
2020-10-22T17:25:03 < benishor> yea, like astral projection too
2020-10-22T17:25:21 < mawk> IM is fine
2020-10-22T17:25:27 < mawk> the rest of trance is a bit too much hippie clubber shit
2020-10-22T17:25:35 < mawk> lacks some kick and speed
2020-10-22T17:25:37 < benishor> there's more to the dark side
2020-10-22T17:25:43 < mawk> it's like they don't want to offend listeners or something
2020-10-22T17:25:45 < benishor> like talamasca, astral projection
2020-10-22T17:26:06 < karlp> just go to planetary assault systems.
2020-10-22T17:26:42 < mawk> dassault systèmes ?
2020-10-22T17:31:08 < benishor> this, right here, very powerful https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0xWmLC47JLM&ab_channel=TwistedMusicUK
2020-10-22T17:38:37 < karlp> mawk: no, like this: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MQIGuiDTURY
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2020-10-22T18:25:08 < leibniz[m]> I have clangd linting the code. Problem is at warnings or error lines, it issues those warnings and errors. Is it expected behaviour?
2020-10-22T18:25:08 < leibniz[m]> http://i.imgur.com/ADTdQPh.png
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2020-10-22T18:33:19 < jpa-> that's always annoying with freertos include files, and some others; why don't they just put   #include "FreeRTOS.h"   in the headers
2020-10-22T18:33:20 -!- k\o\w [~k\o\w@cpe5ccf7fa877fc-cm589630ad9c27.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com] has joined ##stm32
2020-10-22T18:33:28 -!- agenda2030 [~a@2001:19f0:5c01:f27:5400:3ff:fe04:18ec] has quit [Quit: WeeChat 2.3]
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2020-10-22T18:36:43 < leibniz[m]> jpa-: Problem is clangd behaves like this for other files too. It somehow takes those lines literally and ignores that there is a condition involved
2020-10-22T18:37:48 < jpa-> huh, well that is strange
2020-10-22T18:38:02 < jpa-> i can see it warning if the condition enables the error/warning
2020-10-22T18:41:11 < leibniz[m]> jpa-: And you're talking about clangd (the LSP) not clang right?
2020-10-22T18:42:33 -!- apathy is now known as RreatGeplacement
2020-10-22T18:43:51 < jpa-> no, linters / "intellisense" style stuff in general
2020-10-22T18:46:11 < jadew> I think covid is about to begin
2020-10-22T18:46:23 < karlp> about to?
2020-10-22T18:46:30 < karlp> you mean you're about to catch it again from .cz?
2020-10-22T18:46:44 < jpa-> i thought you've been in bunker for past 6 months or so already
2020-10-22T18:46:50 < jadew> it looks like everyone is in an exponential rise
2020-10-22T18:46:58 < RreatGeplacement> jadew: covid-20?
2020-10-22T18:47:11 < jadew> and it matches the curve the flu takes this time of the year
2020-10-22T18:47:17 < BrainDamage> last time you went full paranoia, what are you going to do this time, ritual family suicide?
2020-10-22T18:47:31 < karlp> man, looking at some rare glitches, start actually looking at the code, putting in trace.
2020-10-22T18:47:39 < jadew> BrainDamage, I've gotten used to the idea really
2020-10-22T18:47:40 < karlp> no longer understand how it works at all :)
2020-10-22T18:47:45 < karlp> should be failing all the time
2020-10-22T18:47:47 < leibniz[m]> make #stm32 the #corona again :D
2020-10-22T18:47:56 < karlp> there's a nested if that should be an &&, 
2020-10-22T18:48:18 < RreatGeplacement> ##stm32c19flu
2020-10-22T18:48:29 < leibniz[m]> RreatGeplacement: 😁
2020-10-22T18:49:19 < RreatGeplacement> available now from LCSC. free mask and hand sanitizer on orders above 100pc.
2020-10-22T18:49:28 < leibniz[m]> Is it me or is USB embedded much more complicated than other peripherals?
2020-10-22T18:49:53 < leibniz[m]> Like I'm sitting here looking at this code and I don't know where to begin
2020-10-22T18:50:19 < RreatGeplacement> it's all voodoo to me. I just copy and paste from the sample code in libopencm32
2020-10-22T18:50:22 < effractur> depends waht you want to do
2020-10-22T18:50:35 < effractur> but USB is stuff bolted ontop of stuff 
2020-10-22T18:51:02 < jpa-> leibniz[m]: if i look at zyp's code, it looks simple; if i look at libopencm3, it looks difficult but manageable; if i look at nuttx code, it looks like horrible dark magic
2020-10-22T18:51:13 < leibniz[m]> https://termbin.com/k31h
2020-10-22T18:51:13 < leibniz[m]> Like what is the prerequisite to understand what is going on here?
2020-10-22T18:51:39 < jpa-> "usb in a nutshell" should be enough for basics of that
2020-10-22T18:56:17 < leibniz[m]> jpa-: this one https://pierrelib.pagesperso-orange.fr/buses/USB_in_a_Nutshell.pdf ?
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2020-10-22T18:56:59 < jpa-> never seen that one, i meant https://www.beyondlogic.org/usbnutshell/usb1.shtml
2020-10-22T18:57:30 < jpa-> but that pdf doesn't look bad either
2020-10-22T18:57:57 < karlp> pdf is a printout of beyondlogic anyway, from the footers
2020-10-22T18:58:13 < jpa-> ah, yeah
2020-10-22T19:24:08 -!- fenugrec_ [~fenugrec@97.107.220.18] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds]
2020-10-22T19:36:01 < Cracki> boo spacex launch scrubbed on account of potato camera
2020-10-22T19:36:17 < Cracki> https://twitter.com/elonmusk/status/1319313339026010112
2020-10-22T19:37:39 -!- c10ud^ [~c10ud@emesene/dictator/c10ud] has joined ##stm32
2020-10-22T19:41:14 < c10ud^> ever played with Allwinner? I'm trying to binwalk a flash dump but with no luck...I would like to change something in the rootfs and I'm too lazy to search the correct offset and format..this is a toy project for a china-display I bought off Ali
2020-10-22T19:41:19 < c10ud^> https://mega.nz/fm/VwQl0IjR
2020-10-22T19:41:31 < c10ud^> maybe my binwalk-over-msys is broken..
2020-10-22T19:42:08 < karlp> are you in the right channel?
2020-10-22T19:42:53 < c10ud^> ofcourse I am
2020-10-22T19:43:02 < karlp> you might try #linux-sunxi perhaps...
2020-10-22T19:43:18 < karlp> but that's mostly for runnnnning mainline, not whatever rom hacking you want
2020-10-22T19:43:39 < c10ud^> I could give it a try, but I am asking pros, IIRC somebody was playing allwinner in this very channel
2020-10-22T19:44:04 < karlp> quite a few I think, but rom repoacking isn't allwinner specific in anyway
2020-10-22T19:44:41 < c10ud^> but the offsets may be though
2020-10-22T19:45:04 < c10ud^> I see they have their own weird piling up of the linux stuff
2020-10-22T19:45:44 < c10ud^> like their own low level bootloader
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2020-10-22T20:37:52 < jadew> qyx, I think I changed my mind, I don't think it can be done like that
2020-10-22T20:39:00 < jadew> you need a fixed frame of reference, which would have been provided by the clock of the receiver, but that clock has to be extremely stable and so does the clock of the transmitter
2020-10-22T20:39:18 < c10ud^> btw karlp looks like it's running some sort of Windows (?)
2020-10-22T20:39:24 < jadew> how stable, you'll have to do the math, but probably more stable than you can get
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2020-10-22T20:42:09 < jadew> any change in frequency in the transmitter will result in an apparent reference plane shift
2020-10-22T20:42:29 < jadew> same for the receiver
2020-10-22T20:42:57 < jadew> if the measurements were fast, it might have been easier
2020-10-22T20:43:13 < jadew> but you said that those are slow changes, and you won't have the same clock frequency 2 minutes from now
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2020-10-22T20:50:31 < mawk> nice track karlp 
2020-10-22T20:50:40 < mawk> today I did competitive programming Steffanx 
2020-10-22T20:51:11 < mawk> « hey mawk can you push right now what you've been doing the last two days for <big feature I haven't started on yet> ? »
2020-10-22T20:51:22 < mawk> so under 5 minutes I hacked something together with lots of LoC to appear impressive
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2020-10-22T21:02:54 < Cracki> lol
2020-10-22T21:06:20 < mawk> it's NB-IOT stuff
2020-10-22T21:06:30 < mawk> trying to make it possible to roam to other countries 
2020-10-22T21:08:09 < mawk> I hate modem stuff with "AT commands" 
2020-10-22T21:08:42 < mawk> working with registers and so on is best
2020-10-22T21:10:26 < srk> yeah, like sx1276 vs rn2483
2020-10-22T21:10:48 < srk> rn is complete WAN stack tho
2020-10-22T21:11:37 < mawk> sementech
2020-10-22T21:12:04 < mawk> we ditched lora
2020-10-22T21:12:10 < mawk> all in nb-iot now
2020-10-22T21:12:34 < srk> why?
2020-10-22T21:12:40 < mawk> what format is rootfs c10ud^ ?
2020-10-22T21:12:59 < c10ud^> idk, some weird ass Allwinner "MINFS"
2020-10-22T21:13:01 < mawk> not exactly sure why srk , but I know nb-iot has bigger payload, increases our battery life, probably better coverage I don't know
2020-10-22T21:13:04 < mawk> I can ask the details
2020-10-22T21:13:09 < mawk> ok so it's documented c10ud^ 
2020-10-22T21:13:11 < mawk> they probably provide a tool
2020-10-22T21:13:14 < mawk> or docs
2020-10-22T21:13:19 < c10ud^> it's running Allwinner own private OS "Melis"
2020-10-22T21:13:26 < mawk> ugly
2020-10-22T21:13:27 < c10ud^> no dox avail afaik
2020-10-22T21:13:56 < mawk> how did you build it in the first place?
2020-10-22T21:14:41 < c10ud^> i build it by buying from Ali :)
2020-10-22T21:14:48 < c10ud^> it's a cheap speedometer
2020-10-22T21:15:00 < c10ud^> just wanted to hack it a bit, but this seems a showstopper
2020-10-22T21:15:34 < mawk> well
2020-10-22T21:15:38 < mawk> what file do you want to change?
2020-10-22T21:15:52 < mawk> if it's constant size change you can do away with recomputing offset
2020-10-22T21:15:57 < mawk> maybe have to update a checksum
2020-10-22T21:16:05 < c10ud^> i know (if the formats are standard)
2020-10-22T21:16:22 < mawk> probably some variant of FAT?
2020-10-22T21:16:27 < c10ud^> but I wanted to play with it a bit, thought I could just decompress the rootfs and be done with it
2020-10-22T21:16:34 < mawk> what
2020-10-22T21:16:38 < mawk> you have a tool for that?
2020-10-22T21:16:46 < c10ud^> nop
2020-10-22T21:16:54 < c10ud^> I mean, when I thought it was Linux
2020-10-22T21:17:11 < mawk> a
2020-10-22T21:17:22 < mawk> look at header
2020-10-22T21:17:26 < mawk> see if it rings a bell
2020-10-22T21:17:29 < mawk> using the FAT spec
2020-10-22T21:17:37 < mawk> what does file command say about it?
2020-10-22T21:17:47 < mawk> but anyway someone probably already did the analysis online
2020-10-22T21:18:37 < c10ud^> i thought that too, but I think all the cool kids use linux nowadays
2020-10-22T21:18:48 < c10ud^> and this seems..weird
2020-10-22T21:19:01 < c10ud^> btw I'm investigating the file magic thing now
2020-10-22T21:19:06 < c10ud^> brb
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2020-10-22T22:13:11 < bitmask> ive never seen a cap like this, is it polarized?
2020-10-22T22:13:11 < bitmask> https://www.mouser.com/ProductDetail/505-MKS2C041001FMSSD
2020-10-22T22:13:25 < bitmask> the pcb has a + on one pin
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2020-10-22T22:24:33 < Cracki> film cap, google says nonpolarized
2020-10-22T22:25:21 < bitmask> ookkkk ty
2020-10-22T22:26:12 < laurence_> muh jerbs
2020-10-22T22:26:18 < bitmask> hmm, turns out i dont have many female header pins things, hope I can make this work
2020-10-22T22:26:19 < laurence_> >lawnmower operative
2020-10-22T22:26:23 < laurence_> this looks good
2020-10-22T22:29:43 < Cracki> big venn mood https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Film_capacitor#Applications
2020-10-22T22:32:02 < Cracki> lol https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Negative_resistance
2020-10-22T22:32:14 < laurence_> Serco are so weird
2020-10-22T22:32:14 < laurence_> so many weird jerbs
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2020-10-22T23:06:48 < kakicode> lurencer
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2020-10-22T23:07:15 < kakisake> tonight drinking sake
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2020-10-22T23:14:13 < PaulFertser> Call me stupid but: if (p1 || p2) { a1(); if (p2) a2(); } . I want to write it in a way so that no code duplication happens. Here I have p2 repeated twice. I can write it repeating a2(). I want to write it not repeating anything.
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2020-10-22T23:17:10 < kakisake> little late hours brain twister
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2020-10-22T23:20:01 < kakisake> if a1 has side effects it might not be sensible to even think any further PaulFertser
2020-10-22T23:21:08 < PaulFertser> kakisake: a1 has side effects
2020-10-22T23:25:29 < kakisake> you have a beast of a condition you want to cut down to improve your code visibility?
2020-10-22T23:25:42 < kakisake> *readability
2020-10-22T23:28:51 < PaulFertser> kakisake: well, I have a feeling there should be a way to express this idea without repetition
2020-10-22T23:29:36 < kakisake> not in C
2020-10-22T23:31:29 < qyx> jadew: I can do gnssdo
2020-10-22T23:31:54 < qyx> but I though about the thing a bit more and I am skeptical
2020-10-22T23:32:42 < jadew> you could make the experiment fairly quick tho, if you have 3 signal generators
2020-10-22T23:36:17 < qyx> I have exactly zero
2020-10-22T23:37:52 < PaulFertser> kakisake: ok, what if I want it in some good language and a1/a2 have no side-effects, e.g. I want to either get 0 (if neither p1 nor p2 hold) or a1 or a1+a2 from that statement?
2020-10-22T23:39:54 < kakisake> I think these parameters are sensible for even starting to think about that
2020-10-22T23:39:59 < laurence_> >Burn, stomp, and urinate on a gay rights flag and a Chinese flag, while waving an American flag, and wearing a MAGA hat and a giant crucifix. This will ensure it pisses off the maximum number of people and goes viral worldwide.
2020-10-22T23:40:07 < laurence_> 4chan epic plan
2020-10-22T23:44:53 < leibniz[m]> why STM32F103 is enumurated in lsusb as `STMicroelectronics STM32F407`?
2020-10-22T23:45:38 < Cracki> someone gave it that descriptor
2020-10-22T23:46:00 < leibniz[m]> Ah ST registered a device ID in some USB commission for all their devices.
2020-10-22T23:46:05 < Cracki> or rather someone copied code and didn't adapt some constants
2020-10-22T23:47:12 < leibniz[m]> There is this code I've loaded to the chip that used USB instead of UART to communicate with PC. What is the quivalent of tio or screen for this case?
2020-10-22T23:52:24 < qyx> uh oh, screen?
2020-10-22T23:52:52 < qyx> it should add /dev/ttyACMx
2020-10-22T23:53:10 < qyx> like the virtual comport on nucleo for example
--- Day changed Fri Oct 23 2020
2020-10-23T00:00:34 < BrainDamage> PaulFertser: if (p1 || p2) a1(); if (p2) a2(); putting the if inside te first is redundant because if p2 is true the first if always triggers, so the condition is independent
2020-10-23T00:01:13 < BrainDamage> and it also demonstrates that it cannot be reduced further
2020-10-23T00:03:09 < BrainDamage> because (p1 || p2) && p2 can be reduced to just p2, but that's it, no furter reductions possible because they are 2 independent outputs
2020-10-23T00:06:49 < BrainDamage> you could stuff p1 and p2 in bitfields, sum them, and do if var == true a1(); if var & p2 == true  a2(); which would avoid repetition, but imo it only obfuscates the operations
2020-10-23T00:07:42 < leibniz[m]> qyx: tio could access that. But how? Isn't this a USB device not a serial one?
2020-10-23T00:08:37 < leibniz[m]> Also, If I reset the bluepill, my serial terminal hangs in a way that freezes the whole OS and disconnects from the net. The absolute state of linux. I had to raise the elephant to get out of that
2020-10-23T00:09:08 < steverrrr> leibniz[m] everything is a file
2020-10-23T00:09:31 < qyx> idk what it is, most probably it does CDC ACM
2020-10-23T00:09:34 < leibniz[m]> steverrrr: tio and screen are serial monitor. But the protocol here is USB
2020-10-23T00:09:40 < leibniz[m]> yeah CDC ACM
2020-10-23T00:09:46 < qyx> so it is serial
2020-10-23T00:09:52 < qyx> nothing special
2020-10-23T00:09:59 < qyx> run screen /dev/ttyACM0
2020-10-23T00:10:08 < qyx> not even required to use the speed argument
2020-10-23T00:10:13 < leibniz[m]> Why didn't we set a baudrate then?
2020-10-23T00:10:22 < qyx> because there is none over usb
2020-10-23T00:10:33 < leibniz[m]> but screen assuemes one, no?
2020-10-23T00:10:47 < qyx> idk
2020-10-23T00:10:50 < qyx> but it works that way
2020-10-23T00:10:59 < steverrrr> haven't used tio but if screen hangs just CTRL+A + k to kill the screen
2020-10-23T00:11:44 < leibniz[m]> steverrrr: By reseting the device, it hands in a way that sudo kill -9 tio also hangs. then the wifi router hands. then mouse...until hard reboot
2020-10-23T00:12:16 < leibniz[m]> This bluepill also has a wrong resistor. But I don't think that causes it
2020-10-23T00:12:22 < steverrrr> sounds like tio is misbehaving
2020-10-23T00:12:42 < leibniz[m]> still, why pkill freezes?
2020-10-23T00:13:25 < BrainDamage> amazon is recommending me https://www.amazon.it/gp/product/B083DL7RVY what is signal integrity?
2020-10-23T00:13:46 < leibniz[m]> This CDC ACM mode, is it similar to the Serial Port Profile of Bluetooth??
2020-10-23T00:14:17 < steverrrr> don't know enough about processes : \ but I'd like to know how kill could hang
2020-10-23T00:14:47 < BrainDamage> no, CDC mode emulates a network card
2020-10-23T00:15:05 < BrainDamage> with ip stack etc
2020-10-23T00:16:35 < steverrrr> never heard that... there's TCP/IP under the /dev/ttyACM0 ?
2020-10-23T00:17:25 < qyx> thats for cdc ether
2020-10-23T00:17:28 < qyx> BrainDamage: ^
2020-10-23T00:18:15 < qyx> hm, ok, it may be more generic
2020-10-23T00:18:24 < BrainDamage> ah, ttyacm would be a normal serial device
2020-10-23T00:18:45 < steverrrr> of course
2020-10-23T00:18:45 < BrainDamage> the tty is the telltate, it's emulating a teletype
2020-10-23T00:19:48 < steverrrr> that's just a name picked by udev.   literally anything could be happening when you read/write a file
2020-10-23T00:20:10 < leibniz[m]> BrainDamage: Do you know why we can get away with specifying a baudrate/parity when using screen/minicom?
2020-10-23T00:20:12 < PaulFertser> BrainDamage: yeah, and the repetition would still be there as you need to count the stuffing in bitfields too. Thank you for explaining how the conditions are independent, I guess I see why I was confused and hoped it can be written simpler now.
2020-10-23T00:21:13 < PaulFertser> BrainDamage: CDC ACM is a simple serial emulation, not network card. Those are called CDC ETHER or CDC RNDIS.
2020-10-23T00:21:36 < BrainDamage> ahh right, my bad
2020-10-23T00:21:56 < BrainDamage> you can specify a baudrate because it is emulating a tty
2020-10-23T00:22:08 < BrainDamage> so it's indeed just a serial device
2020-10-23T00:22:51 < PaulFertser> BrainDamage: was cooking brussels sprouts again today your way, my nephew liked it, thank you again :)
2020-10-23T00:23:52 < BrainDamage> I admit it sounds a bit unhortodox at first, but as you can see the result is delicious
2020-10-23T00:24:07 < PaulFertser> leibniz[m]: ACM supports setting baud rate, but it doesn't affect communication speed anyhow. The firmware on the target device might be changing its real UART speed if it's implementing some kind of a bridge. 
2020-10-23T00:24:56 < qyx> zyp: those M12 L/S-coded connectors are *huge*
2020-10-23T00:25:04 < qyx> L/S/T
2020-10-23T00:25:08 < steverrrr> leibniz[m] serial ports have baudrates, period.  for "serial over USB", whatever baudrate you choose will be ignored
2020-10-23T00:26:22 < PaulFertser> steverrrr: might be ignored or not, depending on the target device.
2020-10-23T00:26:23 < karlp> leibniz[m]: http://www.linux-usb.org/usb-ids.html is a shitty cesspit of "first come, first bullshit accepted forever, no matter how many people complain" and every distro just swallows it and says yes sir, more please :|
2020-10-23T00:26:31 < zyp>  qyx, huge how?
2020-10-23T00:26:57 < qyx> the shell compared to A-coded 4A ones
2020-10-23T00:27:35 < zyp> uh, aren't all M12 connectors in the same shell, apart from vendor differences?
2020-10-23T00:27:37 < qyx> it accepts 10mm dia cable
2020-10-23T00:27:55 < zyp> oh, you mean plug shell for self terminating?
2020-10-23T00:27:56 < leibniz[m]> PaulFertser: steverrrr thanks
2020-10-23T00:28:05 < qyx> yes, plug shell
2020-10-23T00:28:12 < leibniz[m]> karlp: this is about that F407 designation, right? :d
2020-10-23T00:28:16 < zyp> never used those, only preterminated cables
2020-10-23T00:29:22 < karlp> yes.
2020-10-23T00:29:37 < karlp> lsusb uses usbids, lsusb -v uses device strings,
2020-10-23T00:29:52 < karlp> so you can also just have shitty badly ported software that didnt' update the strings of their own product
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2020-10-23T00:31:33 < zyp> PaulFertser, I don't think there's anything called CDC ETHER :)
2020-10-23T00:31:52 < zyp> and you got EEM, ECM and NCM to choose from, in addition to RNDIS
2020-10-23T00:32:09 < qyx> I said that and i was probably very wrong
2020-10-23T00:32:50 < qyx> oh PaulFertser too
2020-10-23T00:32:58 < zyp> oh, qyx too
2020-10-23T00:33:01 < qyx> I remember I read that on the interwebs
2020-10-23T00:33:01 < zyp> :)
2020-10-23T00:33:37 < zyp> I haven't implemented either yet myself, but I glanced over the specs at some point
2020-10-23T00:34:20 < karlp> leibniz[m]: eg: https://paste.jvnv.net/view/d6Ci8
2020-10-23T00:34:50 < PaulFertser> zyp: indeed, I meant ECM because the kernel module is called cdc_ether, thanks.
2020-10-23T00:35:18 < zyp> IIRC EEM was intended for dumb bridges, ECM for devices with a bit more intelligence, and NCM is a newer more efficient variant
2020-10-23T00:35:33 < karlp> but not different enough for anyone to really give much of a shit about
2020-10-23T00:35:40 < karlp> so you almost never see it.
2020-10-23T00:35:49 < zyp> which? NCM?
2020-10-23T00:35:56 < leibniz[m]> karlp: thanks. In my case it was a sample code demo'ing libopencm3 with usb
2020-10-23T00:36:00 < karlp> zyp: yeah, ncm
2020-10-23T00:36:11 < karlp> which sample?
2020-10-23T00:36:39 < zyp> the stuff I worked with at STE ran CAIF over NCM when using HSIC as the interface
2020-10-23T00:36:55 < karlp> trendy, but might be part of why ste died ;)
2020-10-23T00:37:05 < zyp> haha, unlikely
2020-10-23T00:37:27 < karlp> leibniz[m]: do you have an array of strings that has the f4 string in it in your sample code?
2020-10-23T00:37:50 < zyp> I'm guessing it sees some specific uses like that, even though most consumer shit uses ECM or RNDIS
2020-10-23T00:38:06 < englishman> wow clearance egolfs are $26k cad
2020-10-23T00:38:15 < leibniz[m]> karlp: no
2020-10-23T00:39:14 < leibniz[m]> karlp: https://termbin.com/k31h
2020-10-23T00:40:49 < karlp> so you have an OS that has an odler usbids database: https://usb-ids.gowdy.us/read/UD/0483/5740
2020-10-23T00:41:10 < karlp> "Wuzzy" the fuckknob submitted garbage and it sat there for rfuckign years
2020-10-23T00:41:28 < karlp> and gowdy's removed all the earlier comments on it being bullshit
2020-10-23T00:41:33 < leibniz[m]> Here is lsusb -v -d :6018 for the Black magick probe btw https://termbin.com/ngua
2020-10-23T00:41:33 < leibniz[m]> I wonder why they have set a MaxPower parameter 
2020-10-23T00:41:44 < leibniz[m]> BMP flashed to a STM32F103
2020-10-23T00:41:45 < karlp> because you _must_ set a maxpwer parameter
2020-10-23T00:41:52 < karlp> lurn2usbinanutshell :)
2020-10-23T00:42:34 < zyp> englishman, new? that's cheap
2020-10-23T00:42:38 < leibniz[m]> karlp: it's just a dummy? because it's wrong
2020-10-23T00:42:40 < karlp> if you do -v on you rown your code, you'll get the strings from the "usb_strings" strings array in yoru demo code
2020-10-23T00:43:06 < karlp> your termbin service is shit and doesn't do line numbering, so I can't give you better than that.
2020-10-23T00:43:17 < zyp> leibniz[m], looks correct to me
2020-10-23T00:43:36 < karlp> reading the strings out of the usb device actually requires sending them operations, so OS's ship with a database of usbids.  (well, linux at least)
2020-10-23T00:43:41 < leibniz[m]> zyp: The regulator on the BMP native can output 100ma max?
2020-10-23T00:43:51 < zyp> 100mA is one unit load
2020-10-23T00:43:56 < karlp> that list of ids is user provided, and with horrific quality control, and massive preference given to first reporters.
2020-10-23T00:44:33 < leibniz[m]> karlp: ah..nice thanks
2020-10-23T00:44:45 < karlp> note in my paste that I shared, the difference between lsusb and lsusb -v.
2020-10-23T00:45:09 < karlp> one gives teh same default answer, based on the usbids database, the other reads it out of the device themselves.
2020-10-23T00:45:26 < zyp> leibniz[m], bMaxPower is set in 2mA units, but there isn't really much point in setting it to anything but 100mA increments
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2020-10-23T00:46:15 < zyp> and especially not <100mA, because every port is allocated a 100mA minimum either way
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2020-10-23T00:46:50 < zyp> bMaxPower is a property of the configuration, i.e. it applies when the device is configured
2020-10-23T00:47:00 < zyp> unconfigured devices are allowed to draw up to 100mA
2020-10-23T00:47:53 < karlp> eg https://usb-ids.gowdy.us/read/UD/0483/374b is one I managed to get fixed. because some numbnuts included "Nucleo-f103rb" in the original filing
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2020-10-23T00:49:22 < karlp> and shit like https://usb-ids.gowdy.us/read/UD/24f0/0140 that I filed in 2016, and finally made it this year.
2020-10-23T00:49:43 < leibniz[m]> karlp: btw, can that paste service be used in terminal? I use termbin like cat file | nc termbin.com 9999
2020-10-23T00:50:25 < karlp> do you have fpaste or pastebin or anything sane on your os?
2020-10-23T00:50:35 < karlp> using termbinn is the sort of thing you do when you don't have anything better.
2020-10-23T00:52:06 < leibniz[m]> karlp: no setting up a good paste service has been an overdue task for me
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2020-10-23T00:53:53 < laurence_> https://soyface.illinois.edu/
2020-10-23T00:54:12 < karlp> ah, the old spam on join, always promises a godo time....
2020-10-23T00:55:05 < englishman> ya new
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2020-10-23T01:01:05  * karlp keeps thinkgin, "I should rewrite this" and then telling myself, "no, there's reasons, try and fix it in place"
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2020-10-23T01:02:31 < leibniz[m]> karlp: I've recently investigated vim vs neovim. Bram said something in the lines of :...you shouldn't rewrite a project like this...
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2020-10-23T01:09:45 < karlp> absolutely.
2020-10-23T01:10:08 < karlp> ok, fuck this, why am I working at 10pm
2020-10-23T01:12:17 < zyp> huh, I never realized .is was in a different timezone
2020-10-23T01:12:55 < zyp> kinda obvious when I consider the geography, just haven't crossed my mind before
2020-10-23T01:12:55 < karlp> we're in the one true timezone ;)
2020-10-23T01:13:19 < karlp> (icelandic software for foreign use often has issues with timezones when first deployed outside .is)
2020-10-23T01:13:24 < zyp> are you -1 in winter or at 0 all year round?
2020-10-23T01:13:28 < karlp> hahah.
2020-10-23T01:13:32 < karlp> we're in 0 all year around
2020-10-23T01:13:38 < zyp> nice
2020-10-23T01:13:42 < karlp> we have morons who want to go in both directions :)
2020-10-23T01:14:03 < zyp> they should just fuck off
2020-10-23T01:14:16 < karlp> thankfully, so far, that has been what has happened.
2020-10-23T01:14:56 < zyp> every spring and fall people are arguing for abolishing DST here, but people can't agree whether to stick with +1 or +2
2020-10-23T01:20:14 < zyp> personally I don't care much but I'd prefer the whole CET/CEST area to make the same choice to avoid creating new time borders
2020-10-23T01:21:26 < qyx> we are finally trashing DST
2020-10-23T01:21:40 < zyp> but if I had to choose, I'd say later sunset (+2) is more useful than earlier sunrise (+1)
2020-10-23T01:21:49 < zyp> qyx, when?
2020-10-23T01:22:02 < qyx> iirc the next year
2020-10-23T01:22:08 < qyx> lets check
2020-10-23T01:24:18 < zyp> apparently it was supposed to happen last year
2020-10-23T01:25:35 < qyx> looks like they wanted to end now
2020-10-23T01:25:45 < qyx> and to keep +1
2020-10-23T01:25:56 < qyx> but now it seems we don't know whether to keep +1 or +2
2020-10-23T01:26:08 < zyp> yeah, same as everywhere
2020-10-23T01:26:43 < zyp> apparently .fi and .se leans towards +2 and .dk leans towards +1
2020-10-23T01:27:16 < zyp> currently .fi is +2+DST while .se and .dk are +1+DST
2020-10-23T01:27:30 < zyp> so that does indeed move some time borders
2020-10-23T01:31:29 -!- RreatGeplacement is now known as apathy
2020-10-23T01:33:50 < zyp> oh, government actually published an article about it the other day
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2020-10-23T01:35:26 < zyp> according to the article, EU haven't made the final decision yet, so norway is still going «let's wait and see what EU lands on»
2020-10-23T01:37:27 < ds2> just use UTC
2020-10-23T01:39:10 < zyp> that too
2020-10-23T01:39:14 < karlp> yup, everyone on UTC all the time.
2020-10-23T01:39:28 < karlp> the idea that "9am" or "5pm" has any special meaning is bogus
2020-10-23T01:39:35 < karlp> swatch had the right idea :)
2020-10-23T01:40:34 < zyp> yeah, but good luck getting billions of people to get used to that :)
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2020-10-23T01:42:48 < zyp> also, while 9am and 5pm doesn't really mean that much, midnight is the date transition, and I can see it being weird having that happen in the middle of the day
2020-10-23T01:42:51 < karlp> yeah, I know...
2020-10-23T01:43:50 < zyp> I mean, picture having a tuesday before lunch and wednesday after :)
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2020-10-23T01:44:40 < karlp> same thing for anyone working nights...
2020-10-23T01:44:47 < karlp> I mean, yes, but it's not erallllllly a big deal.
2020-10-23T01:45:24 < karlp> you can't have universal time _and_ have local "date" be sun based.
2020-10-23T01:45:58 < karlp> china is just like, fuck it, one time zone. you know it's the right thing
2020-10-23T01:46:18 < karlp> russia is like, "oh, everyone should do things onn local time"
2020-10-23T01:47:09 < zyp> I wouldn't mind UTC, midnight would still be in the middle of the night here
2020-10-23T01:47:40 < zyp> I'd probably start being asleep at midnight more often even :)
2020-10-23T01:48:33 < apathy> in light of heavier handed censorship taking place on freenode, we've created a social experiment channel called ##wrongthink where anything goes. anyone who still has a functioning self.think() method is welcome to join
2020-10-23T01:49:02 < zyp> what censorship?
2020-10-23T01:49:38 < apathy> this year, 3 channels i've been in have been shut down after social justice provacateurs came in and spammed hate speech
2020-10-23T01:50:17 < apathy> it's part of an initiative to eliminate what they consisder borderline content. i.e. you're not exactly breaking the policy but they don't like you.
2020-10-23T01:50:25 < apathy> so they send in these small teams to justify a shutdown
2020-10-23T01:51:05 < apathy> a larger scale version of this took place a few years ago network-wide if you recall - which led to the registration requirement on many channels.
2020-10-23T01:55:26 < zyp> I'm not sure I see the relation between the spam and censorship
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2020-10-23T13:28:12 < karlp> cute: https://www.sparkfun.com/pages/micromod
2020-10-23T13:30:07 < karlp> so, SPI now has CIPO and COPI, which one is MOSI and which one is MISO?
2020-10-23T13:30:25 < karlp> I can't even guess what c and p are, peripheral? computer? wat
2020-10-23T13:30:49 < effractur> Controller Input/Peripheral Output.
2020-10-23T13:30:52 < karlp> controller 
2020-10-23T13:30:53 < karlp> ok. yay
2020-10-23T13:31:01 < effractur> CIPO == MISO
2020-10-23T13:31:14 < karlp> IO in the same places then. ok.
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2020-10-23T13:42:31 < qyx> :d
2020-10-23T13:47:30 < zyp> cute, just need some more interesting processor boards
2020-10-23T13:48:24 < kakinull> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WMpLOUTwMEQ musics for trance fans
2020-10-23T13:51:34 < Steffanx> Oh reminds me.. I have musics for mawk
2020-10-23T13:52:42 < Steffanx> I think you will like this mawk: https://www.dumpert.nl/item/8004513_c9783135
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2020-10-23T14:42:22 < Steffanx> And thanks mr kakinull :)
2020-10-23T14:42:35 < kakinull> ?
2020-10-23T14:42:59 < kakinull> can we update our diagrams?
2020-10-23T15:03:03 < Steffanx> Yep. You can always do that ;). Did you like the song for mawk?
2020-10-23T15:07:59 < kakinull> 5/5
2020-10-23T15:09:15 < kakinull> as performance
2020-10-23T15:13:13 < Steffanx> Lol
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2020-10-23T16:22:29 < jadew> is that CIPO COPI shit because of political correctness?
2020-10-23T16:22:49 < Cracki> yes
2020-10-23T16:23:06 < jadew> what retard gave that much of a fuck, that they had to change the naming?
2020-10-23T16:23:16 < jadew> I already forgot what it stands for and I read it 10 seconds ago
2020-10-23T16:23:31 < Cracki> also because they want a tower of babel. they could have gone with uart terms
2020-10-23T16:23:37 < Cracki> muh slavery
2020-10-23T16:23:45 < karlp> what are the uart terms y ou would have gone with?
2020-10-23T16:25:29 < jadew> RX/TX would have worked for me
2020-10-23T16:25:59 < Cracki> that contains some confustion too, but it's established at least. they always go for NIH
2020-10-23T16:26:37 < jadew> the problem with RX/TX is that pin functions would have been weird
2020-10-23T16:26:37 < Cracki> hell, I've seen SI/SO to differentiate from uart but it's immediately understandable
2020-10-23T16:26:44 < jadew> so it had to be something specific to SPI
2020-10-23T16:26:46 < Cracki> tx -> rx, rx <- tx
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2020-10-23T16:27:21 < Cracki> you can read SI/SO as Serial or as Shift
2020-10-23T16:27:27 < jadew> I'll probably use MISO/MOSI out of spite
2020-10-23T16:27:31 < tomeaton17> sjws have reached engineering not good
2020-10-23T16:27:50 < Cracki> spite, or simply standing your ground and ignoring their temper tantrums and fads
2020-10-23T16:28:05 < jadew> CIPO
2020-10-23T16:28:12 < jadew> sorry, was meant to type that in the browser
2020-10-23T16:28:58 < Cracki> these mutant freaks are confused about themselves. it's probably actual brain damage. no wonder they bring confusion into everything else they touch.
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2020-10-23T16:29:07 < Cracki> gatekeep them hard.
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2020-10-23T16:29:27 < karlp> rx/tx for spi would be horrible and a step backwards.
2020-10-23T16:29:42 < Cracki> hell most of them are BDSM kinksters. they should associate master/slave with good times
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2020-10-23T16:29:54 < englishman> massa in slave out
2020-10-23T16:29:58 < jadew> karlp, why?
2020-10-23T16:30:16 < karlp> because it's less clear than xIyO
2020-10-23T16:30:19 < englishman> rx/tx is already confusing enough with uart
2020-10-23T16:30:25 < karlp> yeah, let's not do more of it.
2020-10-23T16:30:26 < jadew> how come?
2020-10-23T16:30:39 < jadew> your IC receives through RX, transmits through TX
2020-10-23T16:30:52 < jadew> it doesn't get more basic
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2020-10-23T16:30:58 < Cracki> rx/tx also emphasizes (false) equality
2020-10-23T16:31:12 < englishman> so you start with one and name the nets rx/tx
2020-10-23T16:31:13 < Cracki> with mosi/miso I often have to pause and parse the "word" into its characters
2020-10-23T16:31:22 < englishman> so at one end rx is connected to rx and tx is connected to tx
2020-10-23T16:31:31 < englishman> at the other end rx is connected to tx and tx is connected to rx
2020-10-23T16:31:35 < Cracki> name the nets master tx and slave tx
2020-10-23T16:31:36 < karlp> englishman: no, you're wrong, rx/tx is perfectly ok.....
2020-10-23T16:31:36 < jadew> englishman, so name them something else :)
2020-10-23T16:31:44 < englishman> like miso/mosi?
2020-10-23T16:31:47 < jadew> haha
2020-10-23T16:31:55 < Cracki> miso is a soup
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2020-10-23T16:32:46 < jadew> the point is that with miso/mosi, you have to take a moment and think "wait.. which one is this? how?"
2020-10-23T16:32:52 < jadew> while with RX/TX you just have genders
2020-10-23T16:32:59 < Cracki> or use their gender reassignment syntax and call it master-to-slave or slave-to-master
2020-10-23T16:33:01 < jadew> RX goes to TX, TX to RX
2020-10-23T16:33:28 < Cracki> reeee sexism
2020-10-23T16:33:54 < Cracki> as for "goes to", it's a good idea to always stick to how information or power flows, downstream
2020-10-23T16:34:16 < Cracki> so I would always avoid saying "rx _goes_" anywhere
2020-10-23T16:34:28 < Cracki> it goes from the pad to the chip if anything
2020-10-23T16:34:32 < jadew> right, but I can deal with RX to TX also :)
2020-10-23T16:34:36 < Cracki> same
2020-10-23T16:35:00 < Cracki> here's some tx and rx of affection https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fhfX3G0--iI
2020-10-23T16:35:03 < jadew> I can deal with MISO/MOSI too
2020-10-23T16:35:16 < Cracki> also tenderizing of human skin
2020-10-23T16:35:23 < jadew> anyway, CIPO/POPI is dumb
2020-10-23T16:35:43 < jpa-> jadew: why? because you need to adapt to change?
2020-10-23T16:35:46 < jadew> not because it's a bad acronym, but because they changed it for the wrong reasons
2020-10-23T16:35:49 < jpa-> otherwise it seems perfectly sane
2020-10-23T16:35:51 < jadew> jpa-, yes
2020-10-23T16:36:16 < jadew> it's useless complexity
2020-10-23T16:36:23 < jpa-> it's not at all more complex
2020-10-23T16:36:27 < Cracki> euphemism mill, look it up
2020-10-23T16:36:32 < Cracki> they love their newspeak
2020-10-23T16:36:33 < jpa-> it is just your old brains that cannot adapt to new stuff
2020-10-23T16:36:36 < jadew> it is, because now shit that used MOSI/MISO has to be translated
2020-10-23T16:37:14 < Cracki> they're insulting you. simply don't acknowledge.
2020-10-23T16:37:56 < Cracki> reject their value system. they value chaos over order.
2020-10-23T16:38:06 < jadew> I'm not even sure who's feelings got hurt over this?
2020-10-23T16:38:07 < Cracki> literal demons
2020-10-23T16:38:13 < jadew> the slave ICs got hurt?
2020-10-23T16:38:21 < Cracki> they don't have feelings. they just pretend to care.
2020-10-23T16:38:28 < englishman> i'm using cipo/popi so my ass ramming penis pump will be politically correct
2020-10-23T16:38:32 < Cracki> yes free the ICs
2020-10-23T16:39:07 < jadew> are these people saying that they never want to hear the word slave ever again? when are we going to burn the history books?
2020-10-23T16:39:32 < jadew> or are we going to pretend that that sort of situation never exists
2020-10-23T16:39:34 < jpa-> jadew: i think they are saying that we shouldn't use loaded words where we mean something else
2020-10-23T16:39:45 < jadew> they're not loaded for me
2020-10-23T16:40:18 < jpa-> you're not native english and are most familiar with technical english
2020-10-23T16:40:38 < jadew> I don't think they're loaded for them either
2020-10-23T16:40:42 < jpa-> "them"
2020-10-23T16:40:43 < jadew> slavery has ended a long time ago
2020-10-23T16:40:57 < jpa-> you sure?
2020-10-23T16:41:08 < jadew> at least in the english speaking countries, yeah
2020-10-23T16:41:17 < Cracki> consider who here hasn't experienced communism. I hope they DON'T know what they're advocating for
2020-10-23T16:41:31 < jpa-> jadew: there are probably sex slaves in your country also
2020-10-23T16:41:42 < Cracki> "there are"
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2020-10-23T16:42:12 < jadew> jpa-, ok... should I then avoid using "slave" and "master" when it describes a similar relationship perfectly
2020-10-23T16:42:19 < jadew> just because there are slaves and masters out there?
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2020-10-23T16:42:32 < Cracki> historically _we_ are the ones who abolished slavery
2020-10-23T16:42:38 < Cracki> and _everyone else_ still does it
2020-10-23T16:42:47 < jpa-> some words could be reserved for the real stuff and not made trivial by inventing other uses
2020-10-23T16:42:47 < Cracki> argue with numbers. "there are" is weak.
2020-10-23T16:43:05 < jpa-> Cracki: who is this "we"?
2020-10-23T16:43:13 < jadew> jpa-, I don't think they're made trivial
2020-10-23T16:43:33 < jpa-> jadew: you don't even feel anything when you hear "slave", because you're so used to the other meanings and not to the real one
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2020-10-23T16:43:59 < jadew> I feel "slave" when it's being used in that one context
2020-10-23T16:44:12 < Cracki> if "we" are blamed for shit that happened long ago, "we" get to claim credit for ending it
2020-10-23T16:44:19 < jadew> hence my statement, that using it with different meanings doesn't take away
2020-10-23T16:44:19 < Cracki> demons.
2020-10-23T16:44:24 < mawk> ie the french, right
2020-10-23T16:44:34 < mawk> do not steal my glorious credit
2020-10-23T16:44:39 < mawk> I ended up slavery all by myself
2020-10-23T16:44:43 < Cracki> it's nothing but moral grandstanding. doesn't change the world.
2020-10-23T16:45:00 < Cracki> equivalent of bumper stickers
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2020-10-23T16:45:08 < jadew> also, I don't know why americans are crying so much over this shit
2020-10-23T16:45:10 < jpa-> this sounds as if someone is forcing you to change your words - they're not, you'll just sound outdated and inconsiderate by keeping with your slave business
2020-10-23T16:45:21 < jadew> slavery was a world-wide thing
2020-10-23T16:45:34 < englishman> maitre in esclave out
2020-10-23T16:45:34 < Cracki> it's emotional blackmail
2020-10-23T16:45:40 < Cracki> they say you're a bad person if you don't obey
2020-10-23T16:45:43 < Cracki> they want to manipulate you
2020-10-23T16:45:46 < Cracki> they're evil
2020-10-23T16:45:52 < jpa-> jadew: because america still has so much crap for the black compared to the rest of the world
2020-10-23T16:45:53 < Cracki> plain and simple. no point in arguing with them.
2020-10-23T16:46:07 < Cracki> lol
2020-10-23T16:46:40 < jadew> jpa-, what do you mean?
2020-10-23T16:46:42 < jpa-> Cracki: who? there are people trying to manipulate people for all kinds of reasons, disregard them if you don't agree with their reasoning, and if they go overboard with manipulation, relatiate in appropriate way
2020-10-23T16:47:31 < jpa-> jadew: e.g. living areas and work opportunities are still very segregated around there - even if the law doesn't say it, it happens
2020-10-23T16:48:21 < Cracki> self segregation
2020-10-23T16:48:46 < jpa-> and part of that is how the law specified segregation up till 1960s, which is crazy
2020-10-23T16:48:58 < jadew> right, people who share common traits/common culture, they tend to stick together
2020-10-23T16:49:01 < jadew> happens to whites too
2020-10-23T16:49:24 < jadew> and it's not because they're hated on, it's just because they like being among people they understand
2020-10-23T16:49:52 < jadew> right, those laws are an expression of this exact same thing tho
2020-10-23T16:49:59 < jpa-> yeah, and then you get born to area with 10x more violence and police are more likely to shoot you just because so many criminals are of the same skin color
2020-10-23T16:50:00 < jadew> in that case whites, wanted to stay white
2020-10-23T16:50:22 < jadew> jpa-, that is not true
2020-10-23T16:50:25 < jadew> I've looked at the data
2020-10-23T16:50:33 < Cracki> yay crime stats
2020-10-23T16:50:42 < jadew> blacks are 4 times less likely than whites to get shoot
2020-10-23T16:50:45 < Cracki> careful you'll get canceled for posting them
2020-10-23T16:50:48 < karlp> whee, new cmsis dsp libs built me smaller binaries.
2020-10-23T16:50:53 < karlp> now let ssee if they still work...
2020-10-23T16:51:00 < jpa-> karlp: thanks for bringing us back to topic :)
2020-10-23T16:51:11 < jadew> *shot
2020-10-23T16:51:21 < karlp> enw cmsis pack even has prebuilt .a s for the dsp lib for gcc.
2020-10-23T16:52:46 < jpa-> jadew: so did you do your own math or read some actual study that considered population distribution etc.?
2020-10-23T16:53:07 < jpa-> https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC6080222/
2020-10-23T16:54:25 < jadew> jpa-, I did my own math, the studies I found failed to take into account obvious facts
2020-10-23T16:55:01 < jpa-> though i would agree that USA police is probably pretty crappy for whites also
2020-10-23T16:55:08 < jpa-> AFAIK the whole country is crazy
2020-10-23T16:55:16 < jadew> it's not pretty crappy, it's 4 times worse for whites
2020-10-23T16:55:19 < jadew> let me find the stats
2020-10-23T16:56:13 < mawk> lol englishman 
2020-10-23T16:56:15 < jpa-> i don't understand why jadew isn't the world governor, he is an expert on *everything* from covid to racial bias to rf electronics
2020-10-23T16:56:25 < mawk> entrée maître sortie esclave
2020-10-23T16:57:08 < jadew> jpa-, I actually did a little research on the subject of racial bias
2020-10-23T16:57:13 < jadew> personal research
2020-10-23T16:57:14 < mawk> you don't have to be an expert yourself jpa- , the only thing you need expertise in is to identify the real experts, then listen to them
2020-10-23T16:57:22 < jadew> just because I wanted to understand what's going on over there
2020-10-23T16:58:11 < Steffanx> Mawk did you see my music for you yet?
2020-10-23T16:58:16 < mawk> no Steffanx 
2020-10-23T16:58:37 < mawk> -301 kudos
2020-10-23T16:58:39 < jadew> jpa-, link #1: https://ucr.fbi.gov/crime-in-the-u.s/2017/crime-in-the-u.s.-2017/tables/table-43
2020-10-23T16:58:40 < mawk> people don't like iti
2020-10-23T16:58:52 < jadew> in that table, "White" includes hispanic
2020-10-23T16:58:53 < karlp> hrm, suspicious presence of 0xa5a5 in my memory, suspect stack bustage.
2020-10-23T16:59:08 < jadew> jpa-, link #2: https://www.statista.com/statistics/585152/people-shot-to-death-by-us-police-by-race/
2020-10-23T16:59:19 < karlp> yet freertos stack overflow hook didn't run...
2020-10-23T16:59:20 < jadew> in that table, "White" does not include hispanic
2020-10-23T16:59:43 < jadew> now, blacks are 13% of the US population vs. ~60% for whites
2020-10-23T16:59:47 < englishman> man those flir/point grey cameras are expensive
2020-10-23T17:00:07 < jadew> according to that table, they commit more of the serious crimes
2020-10-23T17:00:33 < jpa-> jadew: isn't that just a table of arrests?
2020-10-23T17:00:42 < jadew> but in rough numbers, they get shot only half as much as whites
2020-10-23T17:00:49 < jpa-> part of the bias is that black people get arrested more easily
2020-10-23T17:01:05 < mawk> they say they've been charged also jpa- 
2020-10-23T17:01:06 < mawk> not just arrest
2020-10-23T17:01:10 < mawk> from the leftmost column, I think
2020-10-23T17:01:20 < Steffanx> I bet you like this mawk
2020-10-23T17:01:29 < mawk> and arrest follows a warrant usually I think, it's not often "visible crime" arrest
2020-10-23T17:01:31 < Steffanx> Its just as bad as your recommendations
2020-10-23T17:01:37 < jpa-> mawk: sure, but were they convicted?
2020-10-23T17:01:38 < mawk> it has nothing to do with it Steffanx :(
2020-10-23T17:01:41 < mawk> this music's guy is random
2020-10-23T17:01:47 < Steffanx> Haha
2020-10-23T17:02:28 < mawk> I don't know about that jpa- 
2020-10-23T17:02:38 < mawk> but if any if it was conviction and not just arrest it would skew data in black's favor
2020-10-23T17:02:46 < mawk> if we assume white get convicted less
2020-10-23T17:02:51 < mawk> so it being arrest on warrant is fine
2020-10-23T17:03:09 < jadew> jpa-, when adjusted for population, you find that blacks commit, 5.6 times more murders than whites
2020-10-23T17:03:12 < jadew> 2 times more rapes
2020-10-23T17:03:20 < jadew> almost 6 times more robberies
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2020-10-23T17:03:29 < jadew> and 2.5 times more aggravated assaults
2020-10-23T17:03:31 < Steffanx> Do you identify as black jadew?
2020-10-23T17:03:37 < jpa-> jadew: what i would really want to see is a table of *innocent* people shot by police
2020-10-23T17:03:43 < jpa-> because that's the crazy part
2020-10-23T17:03:49 < Steffanx> Define innocent
2020-10-23T17:03:57 < mawk> innocent = ¬guilty
2020-10-23T17:04:06 < jadew> and despite that, they get killed less
2020-10-23T17:04:20 < Steffanx> Like random bystander getting hit by a random bullet?
2020-10-23T17:04:58 < jpa-> jadew: i think it is silly to expect that chances to get shot would depend only on how much crime is committed, don't the police look at all in the situation, whether suspect is armed etc?
2020-10-23T17:05:05 < mawk> wrongly suspected guy shot by police during warrant execution Steffanx 
2020-10-23T17:05:12 < mawk> or maybe rightly suspected
2020-10-23T17:05:14 < jadew> even if you just look at the raw numbers, when you look at the police shootings, you still see more whites being shot than blacks
2020-10-23T17:05:18 < mawk> why do you even care about that anyway jpa- lol
2020-10-23T17:05:23 < mawk> even guilty people don't deserve death
2020-10-23T17:05:27 < mawk> both are equally crazy
2020-10-23T17:05:30 < jpa-> Steffanx: i mean, no reason to be shot, e.g. not carrying a gun if carrying a gun was the reason for shooting them
2020-10-23T17:05:46 < jadew> even tho the absolute number of crimes are roughly the same (despite disproportionate nr. of people)
2020-10-23T17:05:58 < jpa-> mawk: well yeah, but i can see the point of shooting a criminal that is pointing a gun at someone
2020-10-23T17:06:14 < mawk> yeah in that situation I guess
2020-10-23T17:06:29 < jadew> jpa-, I think most shootings by the police are done in the context of a crime
2020-10-23T17:06:48 < jpa-> jadew: and more blacks being shot than what one would expect by their 13% of population
2020-10-23T17:06:50 < mawk> or exeuting an arrest of a presumably armed suspect jadew I guess
2020-10-23T17:06:56 < mawk> officers get nervous and so on
2020-10-23T17:07:04 < jadew> so looking at the number of crimes being committed, you would expect about 50% distribution of "shootings"
2020-10-23T17:07:06 < mawk> the crime doesn't have to be now for shooting to happen
2020-10-23T17:07:11 < jadew> but instead you see that whites are being shot at more
2020-10-23T17:07:39 < jadew> jpa-, I disagree, given the number of crimes, I would expect about 50% distribution
2020-10-23T17:07:58 < jadew> and what we see is a lot less
2020-10-23T17:08:05 < jadew> half of what it should be
2020-10-23T17:08:11 < jpa-> jadew: the other study i linked actually looked at the reasons of why someone got shot, whites were more often "suicide by police" and blacks were more often "thought to be armed but was not"
2020-10-23T17:08:21 < jadew> or twice as much as it should be for whites - depending on how you look at it
2020-10-23T17:08:51 < jadew> jpa-, are you saying that 200 people committed suicide by the police?
2020-10-23T17:09:05 < jpa-> over all time? sure
2020-10-23T17:09:09 < jadew> no, in 2017
2020-10-23T17:09:12 < Steffanx> Are you alright jpa- ? You never seem to be involved in discussion about this matter ;)
2020-10-23T17:09:23 < karlp> a static struc tshould be .bss right? zeroed?
2020-10-23T17:09:24 < jpa-> Steffanx: you're right, i should stop
2020-10-23T17:09:24 < mawk> as an officer I surely want to write out an accidental death as "suicide by police"
2020-10-23T17:09:32 < mawk> that seems the less likely to cause administrative fuss
2020-10-23T17:09:38 < karlp> that shouldn't be in the freertos stack that gets painted for stack overflow checking?
2020-10-23T17:10:00 < jpa-> karlp: yeah
2020-10-23T17:10:34 < mawk> in bss is always zeroed yes
2020-10-23T17:10:48 < mawk> zeroed by the _init routines stuff
2020-10-23T17:11:38 < karlp> hrm, wonder wy I see the freertos 0xa5a5a5a5 painting in my struct then...
2020-10-23T17:12:19 < mawk> well you said that's on the stack
2020-10-23T17:12:36 < karlp> it's a static struct.
2020-10-23T17:12:44 < karlp> why should it be in the stsack?
2020-10-23T17:13:00 < mawk> no sorry I thought you said that struct was on the stack
2020-10-23T17:13:15 < jpa-> karlp: what address does the struct have? is it within .bss address range?
2020-10-23T17:13:21 < mawk> well if it gets that value the only way I can think of is the 0xa5 painting stuff being executed after the stack is already busted
2020-10-23T17:13:23 < karlp> that's what I'm looking at now...
2020-10-23T17:13:25 < mawk> and it spills out to .bss
2020-10-23T17:13:46 < karlp> where's easy to get bss size ?
2020-10-23T17:13:54 < karlp> am I gonna have to generate a map 
2020-10-23T17:14:13 < mawk> if you have a elf then use objdump -x or readelf
2020-10-23T17:14:15 < karlp> _ebss is 436, 
2020-10-23T17:14:18 < jpa-> objdump -t or something i think
2020-10-23T17:14:52 < karlp> so that's objdump -t says struct is in .bss, 
2020-10-23T17:15:23 < karlp> but...  not really at the address I'd expect.
2020-10-23T17:16:12 < jpa-> it could also be that freertos somehow thinks it deserves more stack than you think it does
2020-10-23T17:17:19 < karlp> ahh, &_ebss is more like where i'd expect, ok,.
2020-10-23T17:22:21 < karlp> nvfm, was looking at the wrong table.
2020-10-23T17:22:34 < karlp> this one _is_ on the stack, so seeing the stack painting there is expected.
2020-10-23T17:22:36  * karlp is a dipshit
2020-10-23T17:23:37  * karlp adds an = {0} and uses up .data space
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2020-10-23T17:35:07 < jadew> jpa-, can't find stats for innocents shot by the police
2020-10-23T17:35:45 < jadew> I'm sure it's bigger than 0 tho
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2020-10-23T18:09:40 < veverak> hmm
2020-10-23T18:09:47 < veverak> I am using arm-gcc (C++ 17 )
2020-10-23T18:09:57 < veverak> can I somehow at compile time output size of specific structures?
2020-10-23T18:10:21 < veverak> I mean, it can just be a part of the build process, but at this point I am not sure what I am lookin for
2020-10-23T18:10:34 < Cracki> llvm might have stuff for that
2020-10-23T18:11:20 < Cracki> closest thing I know is #warning and #error that cause compile time output from the compiler, but that's preprocessor time really and doesn't (shouldn't) have access to type info
2020-10-23T18:12:06 < Cracki> you could compile and run a separate file that does printf sizeof whatever, assuming your struct is defined somewhere accessible
2020-10-23T18:13:03 < Cracki> _maybe_ static_assert on false (always) and see if it can put sizeof values into the message
2020-10-23T18:14:14 < Cracki> https://stackoverflow.com/questions/2008398/is-it-possible-to-print-out-the-size-of-a-c-class-at-compile-time
2020-10-23T18:14:26 < PaulFertser> https://stackoverflow.com/questions/8936063/does-there-exist-a-static-warning
2020-10-23T18:16:26 < Cracki> if you have an instance of your struct you can probably peel that out of the memory map
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2020-10-23T18:33:39 < karlp> just _Static_assert(sizeof(struct blah) == 99, "struct is as I expected"); ?
2020-10-23T18:33:53 < karlp> not a print out, but.... maybe what you actually wanted anyway?
2020-10-23T18:34:46 < jadew> you could sizeof() to something
2020-10-23T18:35:02 < jadew> *could output
2020-10-23T18:38:40 < jadew> hmm.. ebay is broken
2020-10-23T18:39:24 < jadew> I have a counter up for sale, but it doesn't show up in the results
2020-10-23T18:39:29 < jadew> no wonder it's not getting any views
2020-10-23T18:39:59 < jadew> shows up if I search it from my account
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2020-10-23T19:25:55 < Cracki> does ebay have "hidden" or unlisted items
2020-10-23T19:26:45 < jadew> I think they change rendering engines or something, I saw two different types of ebay
2020-10-23T19:26:58 < jadew> and one on of them my item wasn't there
2020-10-23T19:27:19 < jadew> not sure why they do that
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2020-10-23T19:30:30 < Cracki> I notice that you have both options of the hpo-030 but one is called an "channel 3 option" and the other a "prescaler"
2020-10-23T19:30:40 < Cracki> 333197247972 vs 333197247591
2020-10-23T19:30:54 < jadew> yeah, I wanted to catch both keywords
2020-10-23T19:30:59 < Cracki> heh
2020-10-23T19:31:04 < jadew> :)
2020-10-23T19:31:44 < jadew> there's a note in each listing referring to the other one, so potential customers can identify the one they want
2020-10-23T19:32:53 < jadew> ideally, I want them to identify my website, so I can avoid paying the 10% to ebay
2020-10-23T19:33:30 < jadew> (it's cheaper for the customer too)
2020-10-23T19:33:46 < Cracki> wow 10%
2020-10-23T19:34:29 < jadew> yeah, then there's 5% for paypal
2020-10-23T19:35:00 < jadew> and 3.6% for the conversion when withdrawing the money, because they force the conversion
2020-10-23T19:35:58 < Cracki> ye fuckers I recently got some dollars and they even asked if I wanted to open a balance in dollars (and said yes) but they ignored that and converted
2020-10-23T19:36:13 < Cracki> they're thieves
2020-10-23T19:36:19 < jadew> heh, they are, yeah :)
2020-10-23T19:37:00 < jadew> I don't know what's the situation now, but ebay used to own paypal
2020-10-23T19:37:04 < jadew> so it's the same people
2020-10-23T19:37:28 < jadew> 18.6% off of every transaction
2020-10-23T19:37:34 < jadew> well, not all of them
2020-10-23T19:37:42 < jadew> I think for most it's just 15%
2020-10-23T19:37:59 < jadew> still, quite a big chunk
2020-10-23T19:39:07 < jadew> I'm sure we'll see better alternatives
2020-10-23T19:40:05 < jadew> ah, right! stripe
2020-10-23T19:40:23 < jadew> stripe has become available in my country and I had that implemented since I made the website
2020-10-23T19:40:31 < jadew> but I forgot to enable it
2020-10-23T19:41:40 < Cracki> i really gotta get into bitcoin. I tried monero once. them requiring people to either trust someone else or store 100 GB of blockchain on disk, in an obviously inappropriate database format, which caused cpu to be burned constantly, was just insane
2020-10-23T19:43:00 < Cracki> inb4 63.75 GB is a whopping 0.2 orders of magnitude away from 100 GB
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2020-10-23T19:43:48 < jadew> looks like the btc is getting stronger
2020-10-23T19:44:12 < jadew> my bet was that it's going to become 0 by now, but I guess I was wrong
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2020-10-23T19:44:22 < jadew> *it was going
2020-10-23T19:45:32 < Cracki> it's not gonna become 0
2020-10-23T19:46:25 < Cracki> maybe it'll be supplanted by something else. even then it may or may not live on.
2020-10-23T19:48:12 < englishman> cool, 150kW CCS in my area now
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2020-10-23T20:02:05 < GenTooMan> now you can charge more often huh?
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2020-10-23T20:37:17 < GenTooMan> question how do I update STM32cube IDE without having to download an entire new blob? I can update eclipse without Yet Another Install easily. However STM32Cube IDE seems to be addicted to creating Yet Another Install. This seems a bit out of standard practice so they must be doing it for a reason other than technical.
2020-10-23T20:43:32 < Cracki> uh, haven't they figured out how to make it update?
2020-10-23T20:43:58 < GenTooMan> are you ... serious? 
2020-10-23T20:44:15 < Cracki> cubemx can update itself. I've never actually used cubeIDE tho
2020-10-23T20:44:48 < Cracki> other than installing on top of itself?
2020-10-23T20:45:06 < Cracki> or does it create install paths containing the precise version number?
2020-10-23T20:45:26 < Cracki> oh wait, gentoo, do you want to speak to the package maintainer?
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2020-10-23T20:48:13 < Cracki> not very talkative
2020-10-23T20:48:18 < GenTooMan> hmm I switched to debian. :D
2020-10-23T20:50:00 < karlp> speaking of cubemx, it gets upset if you try and give the rtc clock > 1Mhz, despite specifically being allowed on these parts.
2020-10-23T20:50:22 < karlp> and the whole reason I opened it was to have it give3 me help wit the async/sync prescalar combinations, but no, no helpers for that anyway :)
2020-10-23T20:51:12 < GenTooMan> karlp the clock toy they made is kind of quirky they want to rerun it even if you changed the settings to exactly what they were before, I've tested that.
2020-10-23T20:52:53 < GenTooMan> karlp hmm as for the 1MHZ thing the RTC part of the code may have been made generically and assumes all RTC's are 32768Hz.
2020-10-23T20:53:27 < GenTooMan> or 32KHz which seems an option from the lfo
2020-10-23T21:04:32 < GenTooMan> so FYI you can update STMcubeIDE from Window->Preferences->Install/Update->Available Software Suites
2020-10-23T21:05:19 < Cracki> isn't that the standard eclipse way
2020-10-23T21:06:00 < Cracki> I wouldn't know, I run windows 3.51 for war ships, never change a running system :>
2020-10-23T21:06:04 < karlp> GenTooMan: yeah, this is for RTC from HSE/n on L1. ref man says I can have input up to 4Mhz.
2020-10-23T21:06:04 < Cracki> *NT
2020-10-23T21:06:20 < GenTooMan> click Add (not Odd) Enter the URL which happens to be http://sw-center.st.com/stm32cubeide/updatesite1/<new number>  and yes that is the standard eclipse way
2020-10-23T21:07:23 < GenTooMan> windows for warships? that's a new one :D
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2020-10-23T21:10:48 < Cracki> it's a thing https://www2.b3ta.com/host/creative/28036/1174536148.jpg
2020-10-23T21:11:19 < Cracki> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Submarine_Command_System#SMCS-NG_as_first_deployment_of_%22Windows_for_Warships%22
2020-10-23T21:12:49 < Cracki> I guess that's NT 5 even 
2020-10-23T21:14:37 < Cracki> lol 25 KB of ram https://www.theregister.com/2007/02/26/windows_boxes_at_sea/
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2020-10-23T21:21:35 < Mangy_Dog> can some one tell me why with pwmWrite set to 65535 (full duty) im still getting enough ground leakage to turn on a red led?
2020-10-23T21:21:47 < Mangy_Dog> where digitalWrite HIGH turns off the led?
2020-10-23T21:22:51 < PaulFertser> Mangy_Dog: I think you're the only one here using arduino libraries on stm32...
2020-10-23T21:23:05 < Mangy_Dog> hmmm true :D
2020-10-23T21:23:16 < PaulFertser> Mangy_Dog: so unless you give register names and values it's unlikely someone would be able to answer.
2020-10-23T21:23:27 < Cracki> scope/LA it
2020-10-23T21:23:41 < Cracki> no guessing
2020-10-23T21:23:50 < Mangy_Dog> i did
2020-10-23T21:23:54 < Cracki> and what do you see
2020-10-23T21:24:03 < Mangy_Dog> it looks like there is still a small dip in the duty
2020-10-23T21:24:09 < Mangy_Dog> even though its set to 65536
2020-10-23T21:24:10 < Cracki> how much precisely
2020-10-23T21:24:13 < Mangy_Dog> 65535
2020-10-23T21:24:21 < Mangy_Dog> ill have to rescope :D
2020-10-23T21:24:31 < Cracki> state the period of the signal, high time and low time
2020-10-23T21:25:11 < Cracki> you should set its ARR/period to somthing less than 65535, because if you set duty cycle = period, you get _one_ cycle of other level
2020-10-23T21:25:49 < Cracki> if you want full on, you need to set duty cycle = ARR+1
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2020-10-23T21:25:54 < Cracki> so it never compares equal
2020-10-23T21:26:50 < Mangy_Dog> i dont have period control
2020-10-23T21:26:55 < Mangy_Dog> just duty 
2020-10-23T21:27:18 < Cracki> then you'll ahve to figure out how to get control of the period
2020-10-23T21:27:21 < Cracki> (or frequency)
2020-10-23T21:27:28 < Cracki> you could set those registers
2020-10-23T21:27:33 < Mangy_Dog> nods
2020-10-23T21:27:50 < Cracki> what is the frequency anyway
2020-10-23T21:28:38 < Cracki> try saying TIM1->ARR = 65534; see if TIM1 is defined (or whatever timer you're using)
2020-10-23T21:31:22 < Cracki> duty cycle meaning capture/compare register, CCR1 or so
2020-10-23T21:31:46 < Mangy_Dog> about 550hz but my ocillyscope is strugglign to latch onto the very fine duty dip
2020-10-23T21:32:08 < Mangy_Dog> though interestingly ive changed the way the pwm is being called and its actually dimmer
2020-10-23T21:32:12 < Mangy_Dog> though not quite all off
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2020-10-23T21:37:18 < Mangy_Dog> dropping the duty lower does latch it now
2020-10-23T21:37:22 < Mangy_Dog> is 550hz
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2020-10-23T21:42:36 < Mangy_Dog> trouble is as well with 65535 presision in pwm.... when there is this small leackage at teh end of the duty when it should be fully high its sooooo small my osoliscope doesnt want to properly latch on to it
2020-10-23T21:44:53 < jpa-> so what is your TIMx->ARR value? what is your TIMx->CCMR and TIMx->CCRx values?
2020-10-23T21:45:33 < Mangy_Dog> i couldnt say
2020-10-23T21:45:40 < Cracki> yes you can
2020-10-23T21:45:43 < Mangy_Dog> not setup for serial read outs right now
2020-10-23T21:45:43 < jpa-> check in a debugger?
2020-10-23T21:45:48 < Cracki> type it in, see if compiler knows these things
2020-10-23T21:45:51 < Cracki> wat
2020-10-23T21:45:54 < Cracki> oh well
2020-10-23T21:46:18 < Cracki> hell, bitbang it out in individual bits over the builtin led
2020-10-23T21:46:26 < Cracki> or get the uart running
2020-10-23T21:46:28 < Mangy_Dog> no built in
2020-10-23T21:46:36 < Cracki> Serial.begin()
2020-10-23T21:46:37 < Mangy_Dog> though funnily i am actually using one of my leds on that pin now
2020-10-23T21:46:38 < GenTooMan> use morse code while you are at it.
2020-10-23T21:46:46 < Mangy_Dog> like i say ive not got it wired up right now
2020-10-23T21:46:47 < Mangy_Dog> brb
2020-10-23T21:46:52 < Cracki> grab a usb-uart dongle and wire it up
2020-10-23T21:47:09 < Cracki> or build it with usb cdc support
2020-10-23T21:47:30 < GenTooMan> add one of those beeping audio transducers too ... and use morse code. .. ;')
2020-10-23T21:48:31 < Mangy_Dog> lol
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2020-10-23T21:55:36 < jadew> is it just me or has everything on aliexpress doubled in price in the past year?
2020-10-23T21:55:42 < jadew> maybe not doubled
2020-10-23T21:55:49 < jadew> but 50-70% increase?
2020-10-23T21:55:59 < jpa-> international shipping costs have increased a lot at least
2020-10-23T21:56:08 < jadew> hmm, that could be it
2020-10-23T21:57:08 < Mangy_Dog> deffo gone up
2020-10-23T21:57:28 < jpa-> not sure if post offices have actually increased costs, or if sellers are just using more expensive services because otherwise they have to pay refunds due to delayed shipments
2020-10-23T21:57:41 < jadew> I wanted to repeat a previous order that was $19, and now it's > $40
2020-10-23T21:57:56 < jadew> oh, that's a good point
2020-10-23T21:58:15 < jadew> lots of refunds
2020-10-23T21:58:48 < Cracki> you'll have to look for new items
2020-10-23T21:59:07 < Cracki> to me it seems as if the same item later always hikes in price
2020-10-23T21:59:08 < jpa-> i'm also seeing a lot less sellers on ebay, so perhaps there is less competition
2020-10-23T21:59:26 < jadew> Cracki, I was, the old items are no longer available
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2020-10-23T22:21:10 < GenTooMan> I would say both be wary that the "cheap price" is probably fake to begin with. That's just the way things are.
2020-10-23T22:46:46 < upgrdman> altium pros: how do i change how a via connects to an INTERNAL LAYER ?
2020-10-23T22:46:50 < upgrdman> i want direct connect
2020-10-23T22:47:06 < upgrdman> but choose direct connect only seems to affect top/bottom layers, not internal layers
2020-10-23T22:57:47 < englishman> GenTooMan: actually, north american teslas can't use CCS. but for the three cars out there that can take advantage of the faster charging, there are 7 new stations!
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2020-10-23T23:11:04 < GenTooMan> englishman Tesla has a few super chargers out their and generally can hook to most anything. Because they were really the first everyone else can enjoy the benefit of being the "me too".  As for "fast" chargers, what is fast charging? 80% in 2 hours?
2020-10-23T23:12:04 < Cracki> 80% in 20 minutes maybe
2020-10-23T23:12:26 < englishman> yes tesla started investing in 150kW charging infrastructure in like 2012 when everyone else was still "lol electric let's just keep cheating on diesel emissions tests"
2020-10-23T23:13:13 < englishman> a block away from those CCS, there's 10 150kW tesla stalls and tesla has rolled out 250kW at a few dozen locations as well
2020-10-23T23:13:37 < englishman> 20-80% is about 20 minutes I guess
2020-10-23T23:13:55 < englishman> I don't really count, it's enough time to stretch your legs, pee and check your phone or something
2020-10-23T23:15:16 < qyx> so is the white conductor D+ or D-?
2020-10-23T23:16:38 < englishman> heh I always check the Wikipedia page for that one image
2020-10-23T23:16:49 < englishman> the colours are in the usb spec iirc
2020-10-23T23:19:49 < GenTooMan> 25 to 50kwh of energy as 60% capacity is about right. Probably fast chargers should have an accompanying BIG cooling fans to circulate air near the batteries and charger in case of "stupid business design" issues.
2020-10-23T23:20:42 < englishman> those big 150kW+ chargers are actually watercooled
2020-10-23T23:21:06 < englishman> cars that don't have temperature controlled batteries have to limit their charge rate if they are too hot
2020-10-23T23:21:07 < qyx> batteries too, at least those we met at work for PHEVs
2020-10-23T23:21:27 < englishman> yes cars that can recharge quickly are generally also watercooled
2020-10-23T23:21:55 < englishman> tesla even runs the AC circuit as a battery chiller if it is too hot
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2020-10-23T23:29:33 < GenTooMan> it's more efficient apparently to do that.
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2020-10-23T23:39:07 < zyp> englishman, what CCS variant do you have over there? CCS-1?
2020-10-23T23:39:50 < englishman> no idea tbh.
2020-10-23T23:40:14 < zyp> qyx, in USB? green is D+, white is D-
2020-10-23T23:40:39 < englishman> the one that would fit with j1772, due to single phase
2020-10-23T23:41:05 < zyp> yeah, j1772 or whatever is called is type-1, hence CCS-1
2020-10-23T23:41:41 < zyp> we've got CCS-2 over here
2020-10-23T23:41:57 < zyp> the only cars with type-1 inlets either uses chademo or got no fast charging at all
2020-10-23T23:41:58 < englishman> right, which EU teslas also use instead of the tesla plug
2020-10-23T23:42:17 < zyp> TM3 uses CCS-2
2020-10-23T23:42:28 < englishman> oh but s/x don't, right
2020-10-23T23:42:47 < zyp> TMS/TMX uses plain type-2 and repurposes the AC pins for DC for fast charging
2020-10-23T23:43:00 < englishman> weird
2020-10-23T23:43:10 < englishman> so that's why they have that adaptor
2020-10-23T23:43:16 < zyp> so as far as I've seen, tesla charger stands got two cables each now
2020-10-23T23:43:38 < zyp> do they have CCS adapter for TMS/TMX yet?
2020-10-23T23:43:44 < zyp> I know they have a chademo one
2020-10-23T23:44:07 < englishman> the chademo one is from tesla plug to chademo, no? i bought that one
2020-10-23T23:44:24 < zyp> we don't have the american tesla plugs here
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2020-10-23T23:44:26 < englishman> looks like they are selling a retrofit for s/x in EU
2020-10-23T23:44:27 < zyp> chademo to type-2
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2020-10-23T23:44:42 < zyp> retrofit to CCS-2?
2020-10-23T23:44:46 < englishman> https://cdn.motor1.com/images/custom/tm-sx-ccs2-adapter.jpg
2020-10-23T23:44:55 < englishman> to allow the use of that adapter
2020-10-23T23:45:15 < zyp> ah, neat
2020-10-23T23:46:01 < zyp> bit dumb, but eh
2020-10-23T23:46:24 < englishman> the china model 3 has both the normal connector and the special china connector
2020-10-23T23:46:40 < englishman> but there is a lot more space in the model 3 for connectors
2020-10-23T23:47:31 < zyp> the current leaf switched to type-2 but is still using chademo for fast charging
2020-10-23T23:48:28 < zyp> probably the only car with that combination, everything else seems to be going with CCS-2
2020-10-23T23:48:59 < englishman> sadly it doesnt look like chademo will die, they have a new 400kW version
2020-10-23T23:49:17 < englishman> 400A @1kV
2020-10-23T23:49:55 < zyp> it might in europe
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2020-10-23T23:50:17 < zyp> it won't in japan, everything is chademo there
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2020-10-23T23:55:04 < zyp> but a bunch of the new >= 150kW-chargers we're getting here are CCS only
2020-10-23T23:55:16 < englishman> yep like this install i saw today
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2020-10-23T23:57:20 < zyp> https://bin.jvnv.net/file/Eo5rD.jpg <- and these
2020-10-23T23:57:41 < englishman> svelte
2020-10-23T23:57:53 < englishman> how far away is the charging equipment?
2020-10-23T23:57:53 < zyp> https://bin.jvnv.net/file/o5YEM.jpg
2020-10-23T23:58:41 < zyp> not more than 10m IIRC
2020-10-23T23:58:44 < zyp> https://bin.jvnv.net/file/Qx1ou.jpg
2020-10-23T23:58:54 < englishman> cool
2020-10-23T23:59:11 < zyp> these were in .dk, newly installed, still free at the time
--- Day changed Sat Oct 24 2020
2020-10-24T00:00:29 < zyp> same operator got a location 15 minutes from here now, but they're using a different brand there
2020-10-24T00:00:42 < zyp> these: https://www.tritium.com.au/products/pk-350kw-high-powered-charging-system/
2020-10-24T00:02:17 < zyp> they're kinda interesting, got separate rectifier units and runs a DC bus to a stepdown in the stand
2020-10-24T00:02:39 < englishman> skookum
2020-10-24T00:03:09 < englishman> made for large installations then
2020-10-24T00:03:13 < zyp> IIRC they are also non isolated so they rely on each rectifier unit getting a separate secondary from the HV transformer
2020-10-24T00:07:19 < zyp> they are located right next to a tesla charging spot, and the tesla chargers relies on some uncommon voltage, so there's two special purpose HV transformers right next to each other there
2020-10-24T00:12:57 < qyx> zyp: yeah, pictures on the web are ~50/50 for both D+ and D+ on white
2020-10-24T00:13:49 < zyp>  qyx, standard is D- on white, anything else is fucked up nonstandard bullshit
2020-10-24T00:14:13 < zyp> all cables I've ever checked had D- on white
2020-10-24T00:14:48 < qyx> you are the usb authority, I believe you
2020-10-24T00:14:55 < zyp> :)
2020-10-24T00:15:20 < zyp> but I mean, I'm not gonna guarantee that your cable is not fucked up
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2020-10-24T00:32:41 < qyx> also, whats this shit usb cables are made of
2020-10-24T00:33:03 < qyx> such fragile wires even in those thick cables
2020-10-24T00:33:23 < qyx> they melt even before you try to solder them
2020-10-24T00:35:52 < zyp> wat
2020-10-24T00:38:16 < steverrrr> the $1 micro-usb cables i've been getting, the plugs are not glued and no strain relief.  Many of them don't work at all for power or data.  : (
2020-10-24T00:38:52 < zyp> what the fuck do you expect from a $1 cable?
2020-10-24T00:39:09 < steverrrr> solid gold
2020-10-24T00:39:22 < Cracki> qyx, did you just say the _wire_ itself melts, not the insulation?
2020-10-24T00:39:38 < Cracki> what flavor of chinesium did they give you
2020-10-24T00:39:45 < zyp> lead
2020-10-24T00:40:00 < qyx> logilink from tme
2020-10-24T00:40:07 < qyx> yes, the wire insulation melts
2020-10-24T00:40:32 < Cracki> I've had some cheap ass chinesium usb cables that contained maybe a hair of copper. literally a fuse. wouldn't bear an amp
2020-10-24T00:40:48 < zyp> I got some of them too
2020-10-24T00:41:04 < qyx> I have some chinese cables I can drag with a magnet
2020-10-24T00:41:18 < zyp> haha, nice
2020-10-24T00:41:39 < qyx> such a weird kind of copper
2020-10-24T00:42:23 < qyx> it is not even CCA, it is CC steel
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2020-10-24T02:34:01 < karlp> heh, bluetooth sig had all these nice, fairly cler up front requirements on what you needed to document to sign up.
2020-10-24T02:34:12 < karlp> get the email back from them (email to the company domain, provided in the signup).....
2020-10-24T02:34:17 < karlp> "we're unable to verify that you own the domain"
2020-10-24T02:34:25 < karlp> no mention of that whatsoever in the signup process.
2020-10-24T02:34:33 < karlp> super professional. love it.
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2020-10-24T05:02:41 < GenTooMan> karlp something like "well all right its amature night things are just stated getting weird."
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2020-10-24T05:45:25 < brdb> anyone using vim in their dev environment? curious to hear about others solutions before i break down and try emacs with evil mode for things like autocompletion, etc.
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2020-10-24T06:37:07 < aandrew> I use vim every day
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2020-10-24T13:12:38 < PaulFertser> Hm, reading https://www.bellingcat.com/news/uk-and-europe/2020/08/29/suspected-accomplice-in-berlin-tiergarten-murder-identified-as-fsb-vympel-officer/ I can understand why you folks might not want easy visa procedures for the russians :(
2020-10-24T13:13:14 < jpa-> as if visa requirements would ever stop russian agents
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2020-10-24T13:14:08 < PaulFertser> jpa-: well, how would they be able to use multiple identities if biometric data was properly checked?
2020-10-24T13:15:20 < jpa-> by russia issuing multiple biometric passports to the same agent? or if russian passport is too obvious, a bribed official in some other country
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2020-10-24T13:21:58 < PaulFertser> jpa-: but central EU database would made multiple passports with the ~same biometric data impossible.
2020-10-24T13:23:22 < jpa-> but we don't want that either
2020-10-24T13:23:36 < jpa-> some central database of all biometric data in EU sounds dangerous in many ways
2020-10-24T13:23:54 < PaulFertser> I mean for those outside EU, who need visas.
2020-10-24T13:24:13 < jpa-> so, back to bribing and getting EU passports
2020-10-24T13:24:22 < PaulFertser> Bellingcat doesn't yet report anything about russian spies using EU passports.
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2020-10-24T13:25:53 < PaulFertser> So probably it's not that easy even with bribing.
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2020-10-24T13:28:54 < Steffanx> Theyll always find someone to do the killing anyway
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2020-10-24T13:39:04 < PaulFertser> Steffanx: and yet the bellingcat articles suggests that they're not doing it.
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2020-10-24T14:01:16 < Mangy_Dog> I realise this isnt perfectly ideal, but just thinking with the f103 is it possible to keep selected pins HIGH while in sleep mode? As im using the those pins as led ground sinks? So to keep the leds off?
2020-10-24T14:01:51 < Mangy_Dog> or would sleep mode pretty much automatically set most pins into drains
2020-10-24T14:03:33 < effractur> "In Sleep mode, only the CPU is stopped. All peripherals continue to operate and can wake up the CPU when an interrupt/event occurs."
2020-10-24T14:03:42 < effractur> so i guess that gpio stays high
2020-10-24T14:03:55 < Mangy_Dog> ok cool
2020-10-24T14:04:08 < effractur> but check the documentation 
2020-10-24T14:04:43 < Mangy_Dog> was kinda hopeing to avoid having to read a lot about it right now :p hense asking. Only because ihave tons of other stuff to do as well
2020-10-24T14:05:13 < effractur> or just test it ;p
2020-10-24T14:05:24 < Mangy_Dog> the projects not at that point yet
2020-10-24T14:05:39 < Mangy_Dog> While ive been hackign lots of bits together.... nothing actually works right now
2020-10-24T14:05:54 < Mangy_Dog> thats what im dealing with is going through each bit and getting it to work and work with the other hacked in bits
2020-10-24T14:08:01 < PaulFertser> Mangy_Dog: deepest sleep would probably tri-state most of the pins. But tri-state won't light a led.
2020-10-24T14:14:24 < Steffanx> Try it? :)
2020-10-24T14:19:44 < Mangy_Dog> tbh i dont need a high state, just a block to grain that would be more idea
2020-10-24T14:19:46 < Mangy_Dog> ideal
2020-10-24T14:19:57 < Mangy_Dog> ahh block to drain
2020-10-24T14:23:39 < PaulFertser> A pin doesn't drain anything unless you configure it that way specifically.
2020-10-24T14:31:33 < Mangy_Dog> ahh
2020-10-24T14:36:52 < Mangy_Dog> ok another question...... when pins are called PA1 PB2 PC3 and so on.... what is the data type?
2020-10-24T14:36:53 < Mangy_Dog> char?
2020-10-24T14:37:19 < Mangy_Dog> im just wanting to pass a pin through a function
2020-10-24T14:37:56 < Mangy_Dog> oh nm uint8
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2020-10-24T15:24:27 < mawk> make everything __uint128_t Mangy_Dog 
2020-10-24T15:24:31 < mawk> then you're sure you have enough room
2020-10-24T15:24:33 < mawk> protip
2020-10-24T15:36:32 < Mangy_Dog> lol
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2020-10-24T16:13:09 < Cracki> https://twitter.com/StrangeFactoid/status/1310248583917043712
2020-10-24T16:13:27 < bitmask> when sorting movies by name would you keep movies of a collection together? 
2020-10-24T16:13:52 < Cracki> no they're obviously different movies because their first letters differ
2020-10-24T16:14:17 < bitmask> god is great!
2020-10-24T16:14:48 < Cracki> sort *by name* means *by name*. can't help it if you don't want to sort by genre, author, ...
2020-10-24T16:15:05 < Cracki> even by year/date would be more sensible than lexical sort on title
2020-10-24T16:15:14 < Cracki> _unless_ you want to find it quickly
2020-10-24T16:15:26 < Cracki> then you'll have to decide if you want to ignore "The ..."
2020-10-24T16:15:39 < Cracki> because half the movies are called "The ..."
2020-10-24T16:15:50 < bitmask> i do ignore the and A
2020-10-24T16:15:51 < Cracki> where is your god now
2020-10-24T16:16:11 < bitmask> and yes the point is to find it quickly
2020-10-24T16:16:27 < bitmask> my movie software can sort by whatever else you want to sort by
2020-10-24T16:16:41 < Cracki> thine god hath forsaken thee, actually rather close to german, I don't even have to try
2020-10-24T16:17:29 < Cracki> hmmmm fulltext index on subtitles? :D
2020-10-24T16:19:08 < Cracki> apropos gods, just ran across a proponent of "intelligent design" holding up that moth with snake decals on its bumpers like a genetic algorithm, or neural networks and "deep dreaming", doesn't reproduce the same quality of picture all the time
2020-10-24T16:19:12 < bitmask> yea, give me any movies that mention the word sex
2020-10-24T16:19:19 < Cracki> I thought IDers were extinct by now
2020-10-24T16:20:09 < bitmask> hmm, i wonder if these 200A batteries have a high enough pulse current
2020-10-24T16:20:13 < bitmask> 200A continuous
2020-10-24T16:21:51 < Cracki> maybe dunk them in liquid nitrogen
2020-10-24T16:22:12 < bitmask> thats 25C, so probably like 50C max
2020-10-24T16:22:26 < Cracki> not sure how that affects the chemistry but it'll surely keep them from exploding from the heat
2020-10-24T16:23:25 < bitmask> id rather spend $60 on a turnigy graphene than attempt to make these batteries better, i'll just give it a shot later
2020-10-24T16:24:37 < bitmask> actually I saw a turnigy nano tech for $37 which should be enough, 5Ah 130C pulse
2020-10-24T16:24:48 < bitmask> 140C*
2020-10-24T16:25:38 < bitmask> but if my current pack works....
2020-10-24T16:25:55 < Cracki> 5 Ah 130 C is 650 A or a 27 second pulse
2020-10-24T16:26:04 < Cracki> roughly
2020-10-24T16:26:18 < Cracki> give or take some fireworks
2020-10-24T16:27:13 < bitmask> yea 650A would work nicely
2020-10-24T16:28:17 < Cracki> can I assume that this is for powering the movie database
2020-10-24T16:28:26 < bitmask> everything is connected
2020-10-24T16:28:33 < bitmask> no its for a spot welder
2020-10-24T16:29:00 < bitmask> https://malectrics.eu/
2020-10-24T16:29:05 < bitmask> bought one of those guys
2020-10-24T16:29:29 < Cracki> and I'm guessing those energy stores are supercaps or something in that category
2020-10-24T16:29:38 < bitmask> no?
2020-10-24T16:29:41 < bitmask> what energy stores
2020-10-24T16:29:49 < Cracki> "battery"
2020-10-24T16:30:02 < bitmask> lipos
2020-10-24T16:30:06 < Cracki> oh
2020-10-24T16:31:09 < bitmask> what I have right now are SPIM08HP pouch cells rated for 200A continous, and one that im looking at if they dont work is:
2020-10-24T16:31:09 < bitmask> https://hobbyking.com/en_us/turnigy-nano-tech-plus-5000mah-3s-70c-lipo-pack-w-xt90.html
2020-10-24T16:31:31 < Cracki> I don't quite see a reason for dimensioning the capacity for hundreds of shots
2020-10-24T16:32:08 < Cracki> what do they use to switch that current
2020-10-24T16:32:11 < bitmask> capacity is just used to determine current
2020-10-24T16:32:28 < bitmask> 8 mosfets
2020-10-24T16:32:37 < Cracki> ah
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2020-10-24T16:32:53 < Cracki> one of the pictures looked like it has a huge heatsink but it's behind everything
2020-10-24T16:33:01 < Cracki> ah no, a bar
2020-10-24T16:33:26 < bitmask> i thought it was gonna be cheaper to buy everything and build it myself, i was wrong but it was fun soldering anyway
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2020-10-24T16:37:55 < BrainDamage> the 300A fuse on that thing is a nice touch, it's quite the slab of metal
2020-10-24T16:39:10 < Cracki> https://i.pinimg.com/originals/41/db/e9/41dbe99d8d85cfd0a9255d64244c7190.jpg
2020-10-24T16:39:11 < bitmask> I was wondering why its 300A
2020-10-24T16:40:37 < bitmask> maybe short pulses are fine but if something breaks and its held closed then it blows?
2020-10-24T16:45:51 < Steffanx> You sort your movies manually mr bitmask?
2020-10-24T16:46:34 < bitmask> yes, I sort by title to just keep the folders a bit smaller, but I use kodi to play everything so that sorts however you want
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2020-10-24T16:51:41 < bitmask> hmm 223 GB of bluray extras, to trash or not to trash
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2020-10-24T17:32:12 < Mangy_Dog> joyjoyjoy
2020-10-24T17:32:33 < Mangy_Dog> the mpr121 is taking a fooking AGE to start up :/
2020-10-24T17:32:40 < Mangy_Dog> and get throught he begin process on my board
2020-10-24T17:33:07 < Mangy_Dog> and i cant figure out why
2020-10-24T17:33:18 < Mangy_Dog> it does eventually get through it like maybe 20 or 30 seconds later
2020-10-24T17:33:26 < Mangy_Dog> maybe even a minute at times
2020-10-24T17:33:34 < Mangy_Dog> which makes me wonder if its noise or a bad connection
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2020-10-24T18:18:54 < Thorn> live https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2gbVgTxLgN0
2020-10-24T18:22:14 < Cracki> lead manufacturing engineer
2020-10-24T18:25:28 < Cracki> lox, salmon
2020-10-24T18:26:18 < Cracki> thicc cloud layers
2020-10-24T18:27:12 < Cracki> shipping containers full of compute, plus low latency high bandwidth uplink... obvious military applications
2020-10-24T18:28:55 < Cracki> callout culture
2020-10-24T18:32:02 < GenTooMan> astronomers are pretty pissed at the instigation of star link because they block telescopic viewing a LOT
2020-10-24T18:32:18 < effractur> well not only starlink
2020-10-24T18:32:25 < effractur> all the other low orbit thingies
2020-10-24T18:37:47 < GenTooMan> the ISS can be easily factored in all the random orbits. Well lets just say they are having to re plan most of their observation and research now. 
2020-10-24T18:38:08 < Cracki> it's a lot of shit now up there
2020-10-24T18:38:30 < Cracki> starlink is adding thousands of objects to mind
2020-10-24T18:38:53 < Cracki> they said they'd work on mitigation (removing reflections) but I'm not up on what they're doing
2020-10-24T18:39:22 < effractur> well also oneweb
2020-10-24T18:39:26 < effractur> but that is canceld i think
2020-10-24T18:40:17 < Cracki> ooh that cam wasn't bolted down properly
2020-10-24T18:45:41 < GenTooMan> one mitigation might be to pay for tossing more scopes in orbit. Reflections are part of the issue but if you are taking long exposures a few fly bys can be a bit more than annoying.
2020-10-24T18:51:27 < Cracki> they'll be streaks, short or long doesn't matter
2020-10-24T18:51:39 < Cracki> only way to fix that would be multiple pictures and median filter
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2020-10-24T19:20:55 < GenTooMan> they need to have spaceX techno band music or something during the wating periods :D
2020-10-24T19:20:58 < GenTooMan> waiting even
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2020-10-24T20:18:53 < karlp> bitmask: IME, kodi is actually absurdly particular about how folders and things are named otehrwise none of it works, what have you done that it all just works with kodi?
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2020-10-24T20:21:59 < bitmask> nothin, i mean there is the occasional oddly named thing that requires a rename to get it to scan (usually when theres two series/movies with the same or similar names) but 99+% of the time it just works. movie names are kept as is to keep the group info and stuff so I can always find the info about it, they are just placed in D:\Movies\Letter\  and tv shows are E:\TVShows\Title\Season\
2020-10-24T20:25:42 < bitmask> not sure about folder names for tv shows, I keep it simple and just the title
2020-10-24T20:26:02 < bitmask> i dont use folders for movies other than the letter
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2020-10-24T20:27:49 < karlp> I was always pissed that they wouldn't let you have movies and tv in the same folder, made absolutely no sense to me.
2020-10-24T20:28:22 < karlp> filenames have to be pretty particular too iirc.
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2020-10-24T20:28:41 < bitmask> why would you want tv and movies in the same folder?
2020-10-24T20:30:07 < bitmask> and I dont touch filenames, I keep em as is so I can later decide if its time to replace it with a better version
2020-10-24T20:30:44 < bitmask> well, i just remove the . for ' 
2020-10-24T20:30:58 < bitmask> . for spaces in the actual title
2020-10-24T20:35:07 < Laurenceb> Lauren Southern had a babby
2020-10-24T20:35:16 < Laurenceb> a big babby
2020-10-24T20:35:30 < Laurenceb> a big black babby
2020-10-24T20:35:54 < Laurenceb> racists are projecting meme confirmed
2020-10-24T20:39:14 < karlp> bitmask: why would it matter?
2020-10-24T20:39:34 < karlp> I don't have a huge library, I don't go " oh, I only feel like wathchjing a tv show tonight, I'm goign to browse only the tv shows"
2020-10-24T20:39:46 < karlp> I go "what have I got ot wathc, browse..."
2020-10-24T20:40:03 < karlp> and kodi was "no. you cannot. absolutely not. no way.  move your files physically on disk before I'
2020-10-24T20:40:08 < karlp> ll let you do anything with them
2020-10-24T20:40:41 < bitmask> i guess it should let you but id never think to do that
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2020-10-24T21:18:42 < Laurenceb> fuck lunix
2020-10-24T21:18:58 < Laurenceb> >suspend just failed and I lost my work
2020-10-24T21:19:03 < Laurenceb> thought this issue was fixed
2020-10-24T21:23:18 < jpa-> it was, the fix was that you stopped doing meaningful work
2020-10-24T21:27:29 < zyp> suspend failed and you lost work how?
2020-10-24T21:27:37 < zyp> unsaved work?
2020-10-24T21:27:39 < BrainDamage> battery run out?
2020-10-24T21:27:55 < zyp> why the fuck did you not save before suspending?
2020-10-24T21:30:05 < Laurenceb> zyp: cuz lazy and thought it worked
2020-10-24T21:30:23 < Laurenceb> this looks undebuggable
2020-10-24T21:30:25 < Laurenceb> ree
2020-10-24T21:30:39 < Laurenceb> no logs in /var/log/messages
2020-10-24T21:30:48 < Laurenceb> looks like the failure resulted in log being lost
2020-10-24T21:31:13 < Laurenceb> I found having more than 250meg of ram free stopped the failure.. most of the time
2020-10-24T21:31:49 < Laurenceb> it still seems to hang on suspend every other suspend, but successfully suspends after about a minute of 100% cpu on one core
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2020-10-24T21:34:13 < Laurenceb> https://pastebin.com/4YRYKq6c
2020-10-24T21:34:14 < Laurenceb> the hell
2020-10-24T21:34:29 < Laurenceb> 69 second delay
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2020-10-24T21:36:08 < Laurenceb> for final ~40s of those 69s fan was running at 100% 
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2020-10-24T22:23:00 < steverrrr> anyone else in the US having parades of trumpers with flags driving thru main st honking constantly ?
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2020-10-24T22:28:20 < Cracki> hashtag not your president?
2020-10-24T22:28:40 < Cracki> be glad it's honking trumpers and not burning looting and murdering "antifas"
2020-10-24T22:28:47 < Cracki> or other protected classes
2020-10-24T22:29:07 < englishman> the Kodi "library" never works
2020-10-24T22:29:14 < englishman> I just use the file browser
2020-10-24T22:29:20 < englishman> it still works to find subtitles
2020-10-24T22:29:24 < BrainDamage> here both fascists and antifascists wreck the cities
2020-10-24T22:29:51 < BrainDamage> one organizes a protest against the other, the other shows up, and they burn few cars
2020-10-24T22:30:04 < BrainDamage> in the meantime the city is collateral damage
2020-10-24T22:30:49 < Cracki> I believe you that both groups protest and counterprotest. I doubt the "city wrecking" is distributed remotely equally.
2020-10-24T22:31:42 < BrainDamage> I don't have statistics on hand, just the news reportings and general impression
2020-10-24T22:31:51 < Cracki> anyway, I'm excited for going back to normal time
2020-10-24T22:31:53 < BrainDamage> at least the news are giving equal relevancy to both
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2020-10-24T22:32:08 < Cracki> creationism demanded equal time in class too
2020-10-24T22:32:42 < BrainDamage> so what? chaining strawmen doesn't make an argument eiter
2020-10-24T22:32:52 < Cracki> I trust the media to give a "balanced" view, i.e. give each side half the air time, even when that's not proportional
2020-10-24T22:33:21 < BrainDamage> that works when it's an argumentation, not when it's events happening
2020-10-24T22:33:28 < Cracki> yes yes I'm a strawman fight me :D
2020-10-24T22:33:59 < BrainDamage> they can spin up a story in a different light, but not deny its existance
2020-10-24T22:34:12 < Cracki> uh yes they can. they can select what they're reporting on.
2020-10-24T22:34:26 < Cracki> murican NPR chose not to report on the hunter biden hard disk
2020-10-24T22:34:39 < BrainDamage> sure, but doesn't prevent others to do
2020-10-24T22:34:51 < Cracki> that contains hard evidence of corruption on ex-vp biden's part and some disgusting personal habits of hunter
2020-10-24T22:35:00 < BrainDamage> and overall there's a pretty decent coverage if one doesn't limit itself to one source of news
2020-10-24T22:35:10 < Cracki> don't excuse their slant
2020-10-24T22:36:07 < BrainDamage> I'm not excusing them, I'm just stating that the overall picture is not as tinted as you make it be, otherwise, you'd have to consider your own information extremely biased
2020-10-24T22:36:43 < Cracki> I'm taking a page from their playbook and put editorial emphasis on powerful stories
2020-10-24T22:37:01 < BrainDamage> the very fact that others can report news outlets skipping stories means that there's room for alternate voices
2020-10-24T22:37:12 < Cracki> nobody makes them live up to standards, so I don't have to either :>
2020-10-24T22:37:40 < BrainDamage> so at least events will be covered, in biased view by everyone, but people are bound to report at least the existance
2020-10-24T22:38:00 < Cracki> the very fact that others _have to_ means there's bias that shouldn't be there
2020-10-24T22:38:20 < Cracki> journalism once meant honesty and striving to remove bias
2020-10-24T22:38:24 < Cracki> now it's just opinions
2020-10-24T22:38:28 < Cracki> and the weather
2020-10-24T22:38:56 < BrainDamage> I'd have to see a good analysis to see if that's factual
2020-10-24T22:39:05 < Cracki> existence, "there exists a hard disk with unconfirmed information"
2020-10-24T22:39:23 < Cracki> what's factual
2020-10-24T22:39:38 < BrainDamage> that quality of journalism got worse with time, overall
2020-10-24T22:39:49 < Cracki> that the practical standards of journalism are shit today, that they were better in former times?
2020-10-24T22:39:57 < BrainDamage> yes
2020-10-24T22:40:08 < Cracki> would you agree that media have become more politicized and polarized?
2020-10-24T22:40:17 < BrainDamage> I'd argue they were as shit before, but now it's just more evident
2020-10-24T22:40:28 < Cracki> ok I can go along with "they were shit before"
2020-10-24T22:40:29 < BrainDamage> because you have easier access to broader information
2020-10-24T22:40:45 < BrainDamage> so you can compare more
2020-10-24T22:40:48 < Cracki> ok so let's say they have always been shit but now people see behind the curtain
2020-10-24T22:41:14 < Cracki> that still means there's massive room for improvement
2020-10-24T22:42:04 < Cracki> also they're mass media that are consumed by huge parts of the population, and people often just tune in so they know what opinions to hold
2020-10-24T22:42:26 < Cracki> and what opinions are okay to look down on
2020-10-24T22:42:41 < BrainDamage> people being told what to do has been existed since dawn of time, see religion
2020-10-24T22:43:07 < Cracki> the media don't even pretend to propagate any kind of moral
2020-10-24T22:43:18 < Cracki> ok well yes they do, I grant you that
2020-10-24T22:43:40 < Cracki> I'm sick of them pushing divisive messages
2020-10-24T22:43:51 < Cracki> that shit causes civil wars
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2020-10-24T22:46:42 < Cracki> example of a bona fide hate preacher https://twitter.com/KeithOlbermann/status/1319739879169888256
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2020-10-24T22:47:26 < Cracki> apart from the shit flinging, he's outright denying reality
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2020-10-24T22:50:13 < Cracki> expunged destroyed terrorist defeated destroyed devoured collaborators prosecuted and convicted https://twitter.com/BrentHBaker/status/1314650158978736128
2020-10-24T22:51:18 < Cracki> and people eat it up, which causes random trump supporters to be shot
2020-10-24T22:51:46 < Cracki> the news are inciting violence
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2020-10-24T23:19:17 < Cracki> "how paris lost a chateau" (wtf) https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9fnkn6Gb5Qs
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2020-10-24T23:47:18 < steverrrr> simple yes or no question, not intended to solicit any opinions extrapolations assumptions heresay etc
2020-10-24T23:49:28 < Steffanx> No
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--- Day changed Sun Oct 25 2020
2020-10-25T00:02:04 < PaulFertser> BrainDamage: what's your opinion on bellingcat btw?
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2020-10-25T00:09:59 < Laurenceb> >bellingcat
2020-10-25T00:10:05 < Laurenceb> obvious mi6 is obvious
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2020-10-25T00:13:51 < Cracki> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Belling_the_cat
2020-10-25T00:14:53 < Laurenceb> lol
2020-10-25T00:15:12 < Cracki> dat symbolism
2020-10-25T00:16:58 < Laurenceb> wonder if honeypot guy was involved
2020-10-25T00:18:05 < kakidoll> what is happening lurencer?
2020-10-25T00:18:07 < Laurenceb> >trying a honeypot with a literal pot of honey
2020-10-25T00:18:11 < Cracki> oh I thought spacex had a ton more secret missions https://www.spacex.com/updates/starlink-mission-10-24-2020/index.html
2020-10-25T00:18:28 < Laurenceb> kakidoll: mi6 tried to recruit me using a literal pot of honey
2020-10-25T00:18:28 < Laurenceb> this was a few years ago
2020-10-25T00:19:07 < Laurenceb> belling the cat seems like the sort of autistic references they would enjoy
2020-10-25T00:19:18 < kakidoll> hmm
2020-10-25T00:19:18 < Cracki> 100 flights in 12 years, one every ~6 weeks
2020-10-25T00:19:25 < Steffanx> You have such wild fantasy Laurenceb 
2020-10-25T00:19:43 < Laurenceb> Steffanx: they gave me free honey
2020-10-25T00:19:53 < Laurenceb> so I put it on my toast
2020-10-25T00:20:05 < kakidoll> so nice
2020-10-25T00:20:10 < Laurenceb> yeah
2020-10-25T00:20:18 < kakidoll> how did you know it was mi6?
2020-10-25T00:20:32 < Cracki> 63 landings, 45 reflys, difference (18) must be junk or museum articles
2020-10-25T00:20:33 < Laurenceb> their recruiters details were in the smallprint on the label
2020-10-25T00:20:43 < Cracki> or debris of course
2020-10-25T00:20:49 < kakidoll> what did they want of you lurence?
2020-10-25T00:21:03 < Laurenceb> radio technician guy
2020-10-25T00:21:27 < kakidoll> ah
2020-10-25T00:21:51 < Laurenceb> oh yeah another autistic plan they had
2020-10-25T00:21:54 < Laurenceb> >spy rock
2020-10-25T00:22:06 < Cracki> hm no, if it lands and doesn't refly, it can't have turned into debris
2020-10-25T00:22:19 < Cracki> pet rock?
2020-10-25T00:22:27  * kakidoll literally laughing
2020-10-25T00:22:38 < Laurenceb> rock with bluetooth, battery, uSD card and microcontroller
2020-10-25T00:22:39 < kakidoll> but yeah
2020-10-25T00:22:43 < Cracki> nutjob for congress, muh moon rocks?
2020-10-25T00:22:50 < Laurenceb> they put them in moscow
2020-10-25T00:22:56 < Cracki> rock made of plastic or cardboard?
2020-10-25T00:23:00 < kakidoll> that might be nice spy tool though
2020-10-25T00:23:08 < kakidoll> maybe real rock?
2020-10-25T00:23:17 < kakidoll> and then cavity inside and shit
2020-10-25T00:23:21 < Laurenceb> secret fileserver
2020-10-25T00:23:21 < Laurenceb> yeah, middle milled out 
2020-10-25T00:23:24 < Cracki> and the moscovians don't have tech to detect electronics inside of "rocks" of course
2020-10-25T00:23:27 < Laurenceb> yeah
2020-10-25T00:23:51 < Cracki> ah, a dead drop in some wall?
2020-10-25T00:23:56 < Laurenceb> yeah
2020-10-25T00:24:00 < Cracki> or literally random rock sitting in a park, i guess not
2020-10-25T00:24:45 < Laurenceb> lol I tried s2ram
2020-10-25T00:24:48 < Laurenceb> bad idea
2020-10-25T00:24:52 < Cracki> shit better be working once it's immured
2020-10-25T00:25:00 < Laurenceb> hangs the machine every other attempt
2020-10-25T00:25:09 < Laurenceb> kernel taint on restart when it does work
2020-10-25T00:25:13 < Cracki> wat
2020-10-25T00:25:22 < Laurenceb> muh lunix suspend issue
2020-10-25T00:25:31 < Laurenceb> had it again today
2020-10-25T00:25:35 < Cracki> is s2ram anything special, or just plain old "sleep"?
2020-10-25T00:25:42 < Laurenceb> just sleep
2020-10-25T00:25:45 < Cracki> lawl
2020-10-25T00:25:50 < Laurenceb> and --force
2020-10-25T00:26:01 < Cracki> operating systems need AI agents that debug shit
2020-10-25T00:26:08 < Laurenceb> lol
2020-10-25T00:26:15 < Cracki> MS will do that eventually
2020-10-25T00:26:23 < Laurenceb> I found having >250meg ram free makes it work
2020-10-25T00:26:28 < Laurenceb> all the time I thought until today
2020-10-25T00:26:45 < Cracki> they're already gathering "signals" before and during (failed) updates, and crunching them on their own boxes
2020-10-25T00:26:47 < Laurenceb> must have had about 500 suspend cycles without issue
2020-10-25T00:27:33 < Cracki> free ram, hm
2020-10-25T00:27:37 < Laurenceb> https://pastebin.com/4YRYKq6c
2020-10-25T00:27:37 < Laurenceb> weird shit is weird
2020-10-25T00:28:05 < Laurenceb> see the 69s delay, fan was revving up then
2020-10-25T00:28:29 < Cracki> line 7/8 I guess
2020-10-25T00:28:36 < Laurenceb> that was a time when it worked in the end but something was major fuxxored
2020-10-25T00:28:36 < Laurenceb> yeah
2020-10-25T00:28:42 < Cracki> so it took a while to disable other cores
2020-10-25T00:28:50 < Cracki> magic
2020-10-25T00:29:35 < Cracki> what could have a "hold" on a core, interrupts, from peripherals, that need to cooperate or else it doesn't happen?
2020-10-25T00:30:21 < Laurenceb> I dunno, lunix kernel code always looks like spaghetti to me
2020-10-25T00:31:27 < Cracki> if I had to debug this, I'd see about a more detailed log
2020-10-25T00:31:48 < PaulFertser> "In the classificatory system established for the fables by B. E. Perry, it is numbered 613" ... It's kinda curious that there's a classificatory system for the fables.
2020-10-25T00:32:42 < Cracki> ooh, they have boosters that flew six times
2020-10-25T00:32:58 < Cracki> (or had, maybe trash now :>)
2020-10-25T00:33:00 < kakidoll> Laurenceb: have you concidered still going to work for MI6 ?
2020-10-25T00:34:55 < Laurenceb> lol yeah
2020-10-25T00:34:55 < Laurenceb> Cracki: where could I find a more detailed log?
2020-10-25T00:34:55 < Laurenceb> kakidoll: no, prob boring tbh
2020-10-25T00:35:55 < kakidoll> you could become the Q
2020-10-25T00:36:10 < Laurenceb> lol
2020-10-25T00:36:11 < Cracki> I wouldn't know. kernel parameters/arguments maybe. something to tell device drivers to talk. all I know is that linux has logs everywhere, and "dmesg" is "something"
2020-10-25T00:36:29 < Laurenceb> yeah didnt see anything there, I'll have another look
2020-10-25T00:36:44 < Cracki> kernel commandline is the string telling the kernel with what args to start. it can take a "debug" switch afaik.
2020-10-25T00:36:54 < Cracki> and systemd reads that and overflows the log mechanism...
2020-10-25T00:37:19 < Cracki> if the logs you have don't say, you may have to raise log levels and wait for it to happen again (or provoke)
2020-10-25T00:38:42 < Laurenceb> ah ok
2020-10-25T00:38:46 < Cracki> snopes fact check: FALSE! systemd doesn't overflow the log mechanism currently. that was fixed by hiding the information from systemd inside the kernel.
2020-10-25T00:38:52 < Laurenceb> heh
2020-10-25T00:39:13 < Cracki> snopes fact check: FALSE! hunter biden didn't have a crack pipe in his mouth. it was identified as a meth pipe.
2020-10-25T00:39:23 < Cracki> no shit that's what they say
2020-10-25T00:39:44 < karlp> can you take it elsewhere?
2020-10-25T00:40:07 < Laurenceb> oh dmesg doesnt extent before last reboot
2020-10-25T00:40:16 < qyx> no, it is a runtime ring buffer
2020-10-25T00:40:23 < qyx> but try /var/log/kern.log
2020-10-25T00:40:33 < Laurenceb> hmm
2020-10-25T00:42:30 < karlp> awww, I only got 90 points at the st dev con.
2020-10-25T00:42:35 < Laurenceb> Oct 22 20:14:54 laurence-thinkpad kernel: [911034.044641] Disabling non-boot CPUs ... > Oct 22 20:14:54 laurence-thinkpad kernel: [911034.044656] CPU0 attaching NULL sched-domain. >Oct 22 20:14:54 laurence-thinkpad kernel: [911034.044659] CPU1 attaching NULL sched-domain. >Oct 22 20:14:54 laurence-thinkpad kernel: [911103.004015] CPU0 attaching NULL sched-domain. >Oct 22 20:14:54 laurence-thinkpad kernel: [911103.108021] CPU 1 is now offli
2020-10-25T00:42:35 < Laurenceb> ne
2020-10-25T00:42:39 < karlp> if I knew you could _do_ anything with them, I might have tried harder.
2020-10-25T00:43:42 < qyx> whats st dev con, is it oevr?
2020-10-25T00:44:08 < karlp> https://bin.jvnv.net/file/Dgzeg.png
2020-10-25T00:44:23 < karlp> yeah, was one of this disgusting web ui that was basicalyl a front end for a bunch of webinars.
2020-10-25T00:44:41 < karlp> in theory there was a "social" aspect, and you could see who else was on the pge and chat witht them, but like that happened.
2020-10-25T00:45:06 < karlp> https://www.st.com/content/st_com/en/about/events/events.html/developers-conference-2020.html
2020-10-25T00:46:47 < karlp> I have enough points to get a dog bowl or a phone pop thingy.
2020-10-25T00:49:02 < karlp> st left the OEM descriptive text in place, "customize with your logo!" https://bin.jvnv.net/file/8fl1g.png
2020-10-25T00:50:15 < qyx> :D
2020-10-25T00:53:50 < kakidoll> win xp sourcecode leaked
2020-10-25T01:00:54 < fenugrec> heh, XP has been reverse-engineered so much that I'm not sure how many secrets are left in the sourcecode
2020-10-25T01:03:22 < kakidoll> the whole thing
2020-10-25T01:03:34 < kakidoll> not just the kernel
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2020-10-25T01:03:52 < Laurenceb> >Hangs on "switching to UP code"
2020-10-25T01:03:52 < Laurenceb> You may be using a frequency scaling governor such as "conservative" or "ondemand", which sometimes have problems with suspending. Switching to a governor such as "powersave" or "performance" before suspending may solve this problem.
2020-10-25T01:04:07 < Laurenceb> hmm not quite my issue I think, but interesting
2020-10-25T01:05:14 < Laurenceb> surely that happens after resume
2020-10-25T01:05:23 < Laurenceb> http://www.thinkwiki.org/wiki/Problems_with_ACPI_suspend-to-ram
2020-10-25T01:08:45 < fenugrec> wonder how that "happened"
2020-10-25T01:09:20 < kakidoll> bill.
2020-10-25T01:09:48 < kakidoll> Bill G.
2020-10-25T01:09:56 < Cracki> the g-man
2020-10-25T01:10:14 < Cracki> *throwing chairs on stage*
2020-10-25T01:13:00 < Cracki> hey weird, google precisely "it essentially involves Ballmer throwing The Chair™" you'll only get some kind of scam/phishing/malware pages on random domains
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2020-10-25T01:13:36 < Cracki> all the pages contain some hex code prefix/suffix
2020-10-25T01:26:02 < mawk> where there is readout protection on a GD32 chip, can it still be read using the same hacks as with STM32?
2020-10-25T01:34:10 < Laurenceb> where are acpi events logged on lunix?
2020-10-25T01:34:12 < Cracki> do those hacks target the cortex-m core? something vendor-specific? or some IP vendors buy from places like synopsys?
2020-10-25T01:35:36 < Cracki> I haven't seen any indication that GD's "knockoff" designs are industrial spionage, or bought from ST, but if it's a clean room recreation it's a very faithful one
2020-10-25T01:37:24 < Cracki> *esp...
2020-10-25T01:37:40 < mawk> some target the ST specific way of doing things Cracki 
2020-10-25T01:38:07 < mawk> with magic constant in option bytes to determine protection level
2020-10-25T01:38:15 < mawk> as I've seen at least
2020-10-25T01:38:39 < Cracki> right, they break the level down from "equals magic" to "anything other"
2020-10-25T01:40:11 < mawk> yeah
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2020-10-25T02:24:13  * qyx experimenting with bq25505
2020-10-25T02:24:33 < qyx> and TPS62740
2020-10-25T02:25:14 < qyx> a nice combination for solar/vcap with 1V8 out with a independent switchable power domain
2020-10-25T02:25:22 < qyx> *solar/supercap
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2020-10-25T02:41:14 < qyx> lets see how long it takes until the supercap leaks everything
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2020-10-25T02:59:39 < Cracki> cue the leek jokes
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2020-10-25T03:42:43 < upgrdman> JLC can only do 8/8 trace/space when doing 2oz copper... is that common? kinda surprised. would have expected 6/6 to be doable for 2oz
2020-10-25T03:43:00 < upgrdman> of course, they're a cheap option, but still kinda surprised.
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2020-10-25T03:52:09 < Cracki> 2 oz is 2.75 mil thickness. perhaps that's enough to make fabrication of 6/6 or 5/5 too dicy
2020-10-25T03:55:38 < jadew> I keep hearing about people I know who got covid
2020-10-25T03:55:44 < Cracki> eurocircuits has the same limits. 1oz: 6mil, 2oz: 6mil, 3oz: 10 mil
2020-10-25T03:55:59 < jadew> I hope masks work, because it seems like it's about to explode
2020-10-25T03:56:16 < Cracki> "got" tested or "got" lying in bed wheezing?
2020-10-25T03:56:40 < jadew> some tested, some present all the symptoms
2020-10-25T03:56:51 < Cracki> masks work in containing the sputum of course, they mostly don't filter things
2020-10-25T03:56:52 < jadew> and were in contact with people who got tested and positive :)
2020-10-25T03:57:13 < jadew> yeah, I just mean in general, I hope they work in containing this thing
2020-10-25T03:57:50 < jadew> oh, and btw, one of the people who got the symptoms (bad), was tested a day before and came out negative
2020-10-25T03:57:51 < Cracki> an OR has laminar flow of filtered air from the ceiling right onto the patient. surgeon's mask isn't there to filter but to stop
2020-10-25T03:58:01 < Cracki> and no masks won't contain it
2020-10-25T03:58:04 < jadew> and had two more prior tests that came out the same
2020-10-25T03:58:08 < Cracki> because people still don't wash their fucking hands
2020-10-25T03:58:43 < Cracki> also because the population splits into obedient sheep who follow the Simon Says game and those who are tired or dgaf about rules
2020-10-25T03:59:22 < jadew> well, let's hope the sheeps following the rules is enough to put a stop to this
2020-10-25T03:59:33 < Cracki> they're not, it'll still spread
2020-10-25T03:00:02 < Cracki> you can hope for sweden's dynamics, or you get dynamics like in germany and belgium
2020-10-25T03:00:15 < Cracki> or just stop worrying and learn to live with statistics
2020-10-25T03:00:25 < Cracki> people die of the flu every year
2020-10-25T03:00:26 < jadew> well, it's not just statistics
2020-10-25T03:00:31 < jadew> I know these people
2020-10-25T03:00:34 < Cracki> we're all statistics
2020-10-25T03:00:51 < Cracki> if they're 80, they can flip a coin
2020-10-25T03:01:14 < jadew> they're my age
2020-10-25T03:01:29 < Cracki> the rona deaths in germany are on average 81 years old. life expectancy in germany is 81. same number.
2020-10-25T03:02:32 < Cracki> if they're ~40 (and in germany or comparable), they have 0.1% chance of biting the dust, due to comorbs like diabetes, cancer, obesity, STRESS AAAAAAH!, ...
2020-10-25T03:02:45 < Cracki> 0.1% _if_ they have it
2020-10-25T03:03:33 < jadew> I think lots of people will have it this winter
2020-10-25T03:03:40 < jadew> I'm bracing for the worst
2020-10-25T03:03:57 < Cracki> combined probability is comparable to falling from a ladder (more likely less deadly) or car accident (less likely more deadly)
2020-10-25T03:04:29 < Cracki> you won't even notice if they died from the rona or from slipping on ice
2020-10-25T03:06:06 < jadew> do you think boxers are less likely to die from that?
2020-10-25T03:06:43 < Cracki> traumatic injuries of bones and muscles don't weaken your immune system
2020-10-25T03:06:57 < jadew> no, I mean from slipping on ice
2020-10-25T03:06:58 < Cracki> I'd say boxers are more in shape than average people
2020-10-25T03:07:16 < Cracki> an 80 year old boxer might do things that keep his bone density up so he's less likely to break his hip
2020-10-25T03:07:23 < Cracki> who knows
2020-10-25T03:07:37 < jadew> I was thinking more in terms of brain damage
2020-10-25T03:07:52 < jadew> because they get hit in the head so much - does the brain adjust to it somehow?
2020-10-25T03:08:24 < jadew> hah! I gained an hour
2020-10-25T03:08:32 < Cracki> slipping on ice kills you not from hitting your head but from fractures of hips legs etc
2020-10-25T03:08:42 < jadew> I was worried it's too late and I have to go to bed, now it's one hour earlier
2020-10-25T03:09:09 < Cracki> now I'm only ~30 minutes off solar, it was 90 minutes off a moment ago
2020-10-25T03:11:06 < Cracki> that also means the sun now sets around 5pm when it set around 6pm yesterday
2020-10-25T03:13:38 < Cracki> heh. yesterday sunrise was ~8am, now it's 7am
2020-10-25T03:16:07 < jadew> daylight saving is a testament to how bad government works
2020-10-25T03:16:21 < jadew> nobody needs it anymore
2020-10-25T03:17:43 < Cracki> they thought they could save power for lighting the evenings but forgot that DST causes people to need it in the mornings instead
2020-10-25T03:18:08 < Cracki> zero sum game. just fucking stop and make the clock say noon when it's noon
2020-10-25T03:23:59 < GenTooMan> DST was instigated by bean counters in businesses the idea is cost shifting. So instead of the business paying for illumination when the employees come in when it was dark they just made the 'time different', basically it was a lie to dump the cost of paying for lighting into the employees lap instead of the business.
2020-10-25T03:26:24 < jadew> never saw it from that perspective before
2020-10-25T03:26:26 < Cracki> uh no. imagine a 24 hour clock, 6am is left, noon top, 6pm right, midnight down. sunrise and sunset are points near the left and right. DST turns the clock face to the left so the same "time" on the clock is now _earlier_ in the day, i.e. when it's darker
2020-10-25T03:27:10 < Cracki> people claim DST gives them "more evening time in the summer"
2020-10-25T03:27:40 < Cracki> the evening daylight is merely stolen from the morning
2020-10-25T03:28:25 < jadew> so something is getting stolen :P
2020-10-25T03:28:30 < GenTooMan> I was actually talking about the original motivation not what the consequences were.
2020-10-25T03:29:49 < Cracki> this also contributes to people rising "later" (on the clock face, not actually). a 9-to-5 job on a DST clockface would actually be 8-to-4 (symmetric) in solar (normal) time
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2020-10-25T03:30:24 < Cracki> and a 9-to-5 on solar time would be late to rise, late to bed
2020-10-25T03:31:08 < Cracki> for no good reason really, other than making you have "leisure time" in more darkness than you should
2020-10-25T03:33:17 < GenTooMan> in any case DST is actually bad news for everyone despite what people think. It's now being used as a "feel good" I'm saving "xxx" thing which it doesn't do anything except mess people up for several weeks twice a year.
2020-10-25T03:33:19 < Cracki> it's so much more in tune with our biology to rise with the sun. the body reacts to the color temperature of daylight
2020-10-25T03:33:28 < Cracki> yeah
2020-10-25T03:33:57 < Cracki> my fear is that all these fucking retards will call for DST all-year which is an awful idea
2020-10-25T03:34:37 < Cracki> they have no reasons other than they want to "sleep in more", which amounts to the clock face lying to them
2020-10-25T03:35:22 < Cracki> they could turn it left a few more hours, then everyone can sleep in until "noon" (12:00) which would now be mid morning
2020-10-25T03:36:33 < Cracki> maybe you'd work "16:00-00:00", which is during daylight, and it's all a big lie
2020-10-25T03:37:35 < Cracki> democracy is rule of the morons
2020-10-25T03:38:52 < GenTooMan> it only works if people are educated. Even then people tend to do the wrong thing. Dictators just demonstrate how bad things can go wrong with people. 
2020-10-25T03:41:45 < GenTooMan> but the fact is DST whatever it's source is from is actually a serious problem in the world in it's current state.
2020-10-25T03:43:41 < Cracki> good luck explaining that to people who have their opinion and are impervious to reason
2020-10-25T03:44:17 < Cracki> something else I find hilarious is that poles and spaniards are in the same time zone while being separated by upto 30 degrees (2 hours)
2020-10-25T03:44:57 < Cracki> poles have ~half hour early sunrise/set, spaniards have 1.5 hour late rise/set
2020-10-25T03:45:28 < Cracki> (upto)
2020-10-25T03:45:43 < GenTooMan> in the US you can travel through one state and have a 2 hour change at the border because not all states respect DST.
2020-10-25T03:45:44 < Cracki> and that's in winter
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2020-10-25T03:47:08 < Cracki> last I looked I couldn't find an android lock screen widget to replace the clock so it has hands (and some inner face) showing true solar time and a tilted face showing legal time
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2020-10-25T03:49:57 < GenTooMan> 30 minute shifts? hmm any reason for that?
2020-10-25T03:50:36 < Cracki> half a timezone
2020-10-25T03:50:44 < Cracki> I'm going by local solar time
2020-10-25T03:51:02 < Cracki> westernmost edge of spain is at 7.5 degrees west
2020-10-25T03:51:14 < Cracki> greenwich is at 0 degrees
2020-10-25T03:51:24 < Cracki> 15 degrees is one hour worth
2020-10-25T03:52:07 < Cracki> germany-poland border is at 15deg east, precisely GMT+1. western germany and eastern poland are about 30 minutes away from that
2020-10-25T03:52:13 < Cracki> https://www.astro.oma.be/wp-content/uploads/2018/10/carte-heure-EN.png
2020-10-25T03:52:20 < Cracki> https://c.tadst.com/gfx/750w/tzmap-europe-2014.png?2
2020-10-25T03:53:36 < Cracki> https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/4/4b/Solar_time_vs_standard_time.png
2020-10-25T03:54:45 < GenTooMan> So you aren't actually talking standard time but sun time.
2020-10-25T03:55:14 < Cracki> difference of legal time to solar time
2020-10-25T03:58:46 < Cracki> france being +1/+2 makes no sense. 0 degrees go right through it
2020-10-25T04:21:01 < GenTooMan> have you studied the origins of standard time?
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2020-10-25T04:45:45 < GenTooMan> politics is likely why France is +1 and +2 by the way. IE someone wanted it that way... likely because it would be the same TZ as the GB.
2020-10-25T04:46:02 < GenTooMan> so +1 and +2 to fix that.
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2020-10-25T13:47:53 < Steffanx> Hm
2020-10-25T13:48:13 < jpa-> Steffanx: did you go to church today?
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2020-10-25T13:51:25 < jadew> so check this out, the legacy checkout procedure for stripe, allows you to withdraw any amount from the customer's card
2020-10-25T13:52:21 < jadew> you can tell him he's going to pay 150, and you can withdraw 15k
2020-10-25T13:52:32 < jadew> (like I just did by mistake, on the test account)
2020-10-25T13:54:15 < jadew> I wonder how many of those scummy drop shipping websites take advantage of that
2020-10-25T13:54:34 < jadew> mention fee in small text in the terms
2020-10-25T13:54:45 < jadew> then charge it without showing it to the client
2020-10-25T13:55:07 < effractur> then you just dispute it
2020-10-25T13:55:15 < thement> if you notice it
2020-10-25T13:55:21 < jadew> exactly, if you notice it
2020-10-25T13:55:42 < jadew> and if you dispute it, they can just refund you and they're still the good guys
2020-10-25T13:55:47 < jadew> because the fee was mentioned in the terms
2020-10-25T13:55:53 < jadew> so you were the dumb one
2020-10-25T13:58:04 < jpa-> jadew: at what point can you change the price? doesn't stripe show it to the user before user clicks "pay now" or whatever?
2020-10-25T13:58:27 < jadew> jpa-, no, they first authorize the payment, without knowing the amount
2020-10-25T13:58:33 < jadew> and then you charge it, on the serverside
2020-10-25T13:58:41 < jadew> based on the previous authorization
2020-10-25T13:58:44 < jadew> it's silly
2020-10-25T13:58:51 < jpa-> or is that the case where you type the credit card number to your site, and then just send it all to stripe?
2020-10-25T13:59:08 < jadew> when you click "Pay with Stripe" a pop-up shows up
2020-10-25T13:59:25 < jadew> the website doesn't send any info about the required amounts/products/etc to stripe
2020-10-25T13:59:34 < jadew> so they just get your card information and return a token to the site
2020-10-25T13:59:40 < jadew> the site then sends the token to the serverside
2020-10-25T13:59:49 < jpa-> https://stripe.com/docs/payments/accept-a-payment-charges#web-create-charge   hmm yeah, looks strange that you get a token first and then give the amount later
2020-10-25T14:00:00 < jadew> and on the serverside you execute a payment based on that token and the required amount :)
2020-10-25T14:00:09 < effractur> but does not stripe has a max charge limit
2020-10-25T14:00:11 < effractur> per account
2020-10-25T14:00:18 < effractur> at least that is how it normally works
2020-10-25T14:00:30 < effractur> that you can only charge X amount of dollars and have Y of outstanding payments
2020-10-25T14:00:51 < jadew> that doesn't matter, if you want to abuse this, you wouldn't charge 10k
2020-10-25T14:01:02 < jadew> you'd charge $3 extra, or $5
2020-10-25T14:01:08 < jadew> depending on the total amount
2020-10-25T14:01:14 < jadew> the buyer wouldn't know the difference
2020-10-25T14:01:40 < jadew> I guess I'll know to check my bank statements after I make a payment with stripe
2020-10-25T14:01:40 < jpa-> yeah, looks like stripe will only improve on the store not knowing the card number, but it doesn't provide secure way to check the price
2020-10-25T14:02:08 < jadew> jpa-, you just read the docs? I was hoping the new version solves this problem
2020-10-25T14:02:19 < effractur> well if the store knowsn the card numer it needs PCI auditing
2020-10-25T14:02:22 < effractur> and that is expensive
2020-10-25T14:03:31 < jadew> ah, that's the previous one
2020-10-25T14:03:41 < jadew> ^ jpa- 
2020-10-25T14:03:52 < jpa-> i guess stripe is designed to be nice to shops and not that nice to customers
2020-10-25T14:03:56 < jadew> I'm going to read about their new API, which seems more convoluted, but hopefully it's more secure
2020-10-25T14:04:07 < jadew> jpa-, yeah, it looks that way
2020-10-25T14:05:00 < jadew> personally, I don't like the pop-up, it shows under the same URL as the website
2020-10-25T14:05:12 < jadew> I want stripe's URL on the payment page
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2020-10-25T14:29:19 < Steffanx> Lol what jpa- 
2020-10-25T14:29:51 < Steffanx> If I would go to church i wouldnt do that during those times
2020-10-25T14:29:57 < Steffanx> Am not even allowed to sing
2020-10-25T14:34:12 < Steffanx> Ok I am allowed, because they cannot forbid it
2020-10-25T15:10:07 < jadew>     lineItems: [
2020-10-25T15:10:10 < jadew>       // Replace with the ID of your price
2020-10-25T15:10:12 < jadew>       {price: 'price_123', quantity: 1},
2020-10-25T15:10:14 < jadew>     ],
2020-10-25T15:10:22 < jadew> price
2020-10-25T15:10:25 < jadew> REQUIRED
2020-10-25T15:10:27 < jadew> string
2020-10-25T15:10:29 < jadew> The ID of the price that the customer would like to purchase or subscribe to. May also be a SKU or plan.
2020-10-25T15:10:31 < jadew> how dumb is that?
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2020-10-25T15:11:17 < jadew> looks like they're outsourcing to engrish speaking countries
2020-10-25T15:11:31 < jadew> either that, or they have some very bright developers
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2020-10-25T15:16:24 < jadew> they have another property just like that one, that serves the exact same purpose and has two keys for the same thing
2020-10-25T15:16:30 < jadew> either sku or plan
2020-10-25T15:16:53 < jadew> but they recommend using the first one (lineItems), for reasons they do not specify
2020-10-25T15:17:12 < jadew> "Using lineItems is preferred."
2020-10-25T15:19:21 < Mangy_Dog> anyone here ever had trouble and solved connecting a MPR121 cap touch sensor to a stmf103?
2020-10-25T15:19:25 < Mangy_Dog> via i2c
2020-10-25T15:22:05 < karlp> how are people setting real time clocks from a host with any precision? gettimeofday() and then writing to a socket, either serial or usb seems like it has fairly arbitrary extra delay.
2020-10-25T15:23:08 < effractur> wat precision do you need anyway
2020-10-25T15:23:56 < effractur> but if you want some precicion you could do ntp style
2020-10-25T15:24:03 < effractur> to figure out the latency of the link
2020-10-25T15:42:40 < karlp> yeah, but I can't figure out how to get the host to give me a reliable time of when it sends a message
2020-10-25T15:43:39 < effractur> host sends time to client, client sends ack back
2020-10-25T15:43:47 < karlp> assuming the delay through the kernel and scheduling and out the link is constant seems fairly wildly unreliable
2020-10-25T15:43:47 < effractur> then you know total time passed
2020-10-25T15:44:52 < karlp> can't ack, this is destined for multi drop serial.
2020-10-25T15:45:04 < karlp> I've got an implementation that works very well, but it's not real time, it's windowed time.
2020-10-25T15:45:10 < karlp> and I've no real idea how to get real time into it.
2020-10-25T15:52:51 < jpa-> i'm syncing multiple devices using USB SOF, but i'm not trying to sync them with host clock
2020-10-25T15:53:21 < jpa-> what precision are you aiming for?
2020-10-25T15:54:22 < jpa-> 1-2 ms should be quite easy
2020-10-25T15:57:30 < PaulFertser> Since you can't count on userspace having constant latency probably the answer is to write a simple kernel driver that would be using high-resolution timers and sending the time message itself?
2020-10-25T15:57:46 < jpa-> PaulFertser: AFAIK the usb host controller buffers packets in hardware
2020-10-25T15:57:56 < jpa-> so timestamping on kernel side is only a small improvement
2020-10-25T15:59:22 < PaulFertser> What about a GPIO that would be controlled by the kernel to provide PPS to all the slaves?
2020-10-25T16:00:51 < jpa-> that's probably easiest, yeah
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2020-10-25T16:01:28 < PaulFertser> If you need _that_ kind of precision.
2020-10-25T16:04:54 < karlp> nah, lookinng for more like ~20usecs or so.
2020-10-25T16:06:13 < karlp> that's abotu what i've got now, but it's imaginary time, which is perfectly suitable for it's task, but some things owuld be easier if it was real time.
2020-10-25T16:08:45 < jpa-> googling gives lots of results about something called "USB-inSync", but that appears to be just syncing between devices and not to the host; so probably it's SOF-based also
2020-10-25T16:10:18 < jpa-> i looked at the USB EHCI host specification but seems like there is no standard way to get timestamp from there
2020-10-25T16:10:39 < jpa-> which kinda makes sense as PCs don't really have a global clock that would be visible to the USB host controller
2020-10-25T16:14:08 < karlp> well, I'm realllly looking at serial anyway, but I would have though tthe same problem existed on usb devices as well.
2020-10-25T16:15:21 < jpa-> if you have classic 16550 UART on the PC, you can probably achieve pretty good timestamp by writing a custom kernel driving
2020-10-25T16:15:23 < jpa-> *driver
2020-10-25T16:21:39 < jpa-> but yeah, easiest to implement & debug is probably just to connect a pulse-per-second line between all devices
2020-10-25T16:23:59 < karlp> bleh. boring :)
2020-10-25T16:25:09 < karlp> I should be able to hook an irq on the serial out path, but thatð's going to be kernel driver hacking again I guess.
2020-10-25T16:25:39 < karlp> implement https://www.kernel.org/doc/html/latest/networking/timestamping.html SOF_TIMESTAMPING_TX_SOFTWARE or something.
2020-10-25T16:30:20 < karlp> can probably use the existing windowed timestamping to work out how much to adjust them by too, I guess, 
2020-10-25T16:30:26 < karlp> but then I've got both systems running .)
2020-10-25T16:30:50 < jpa-> what is "windowed timestamping"?
2020-10-25T16:32:05 < karlp> I broadcast to all devices, and they all zero timers, and free count until the next zero
2020-10-25T16:32:30 < karlp> works fine, bu you need to keep trakc of which window you're in, in case people miss messages.
2020-10-25T16:32:40 < karlp> and means you don't need to know real time on the host at all.
2020-10-25T16:32:49 < karlp> it's ~simlar to your "special wire with pps on it"
2020-10-25T16:33:22 < karlp> just that the "pps" isn't a single pulse, but a bit pattern, so there's a bit of a delay in it, not quite as beautiful as a single edge.
2020-10-25T17:03:27 < BrainDamage> what the hell, I have a pinout here that calls MISO "SO", and that's ok because it's unambigous, but MOSI has been renamed to "ST", and interrupt pin to "LNT"
2020-10-25T17:04:10 < BrainDamage> and 5V vdd is 5V, but 3.3V vdd is Q3
2020-10-25T17:05:15 < jpa-> are you sure it is SPI at all?
2020-10-25T17:05:53 < BrainDamage> yes, it says SPI, just a ton of typos on this chinese datashit
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2020-10-25T17:44:20 < Cracki> LNT, what do they say that stands for
2020-10-25T17:45:22 < BrainDamage> I think they just did typos, LNT should be INT, and ST SI, and they somehow fucked up because of the glyph similarity
2020-10-25T17:45:23 < Cracki> I think they meant to say INT
2020-10-25T17:45:38 < Cracki> holy fuck that "pinout" must have gone through the wringer
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2020-10-25T17:56:06 < mawk> BrainDamage I need your expertise
2020-10-25T17:56:08 < mawk> I tried to compute if I should run under the rain or not
2020-10-25T17:56:10 < mawk> so I computed the cross section the rain sees of me
2020-10-25T17:56:44 < mawk> then multiply by amount of rain fall per m² per s and by duration of trip
2020-10-25T17:56:55 < mawk> then I get a nice curve
2020-10-25T17:57:23 < mawk> but when I plug that my speed is ∞ it means I get no rain which is obviously false
2020-10-25T17:57:34 < mawk> I'd hit all the drops suspended in mid air
2020-10-25T17:58:07 < mawk> so maybe I shouldn't model with this rain surface density thing and rather use individual drops
2020-10-25T17:58:49 < mawk> assuming I'm 0 thickness, I'm just a moving plane
2020-10-25T17:59:05 < mawk> I'm a skinny guy
2020-10-25T18:00:39 < mawk> at least with current model I computed if you're far from being Usain Bolt then better just walk
2020-10-25T18:00:56 < mawk> assuming raindrop terminal velocity of 10m/s
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2020-10-25T18:13:27 < BrainDamage> mawk: the amount of water that you hit horizontally is indepenent on the speed if you assume rain is orthogonal to the movement
2020-10-25T18:14:39 < BrainDamage> while the vertical flux is indeed proportional to the integration time, so the faster you go, the less water hits you
2020-10-25T18:14:46 < BrainDamage> tldr: always run
2020-10-25T18:16:24 < BrainDamage> because horizontally it's the flux of suspended rain droplets through your cross section, but if the density is constant, the total flux of integration depends only on the path, not the speed
2020-10-25T18:17:58 < BrainDamage> because it's a line integral of your COM through the field
2020-10-25T18:19:59 < BrainDamage> well, strictly speaking, it's not a line integral, it's a flux integral, but given the symmetry of the problem, the flux reduces to a line integral of a constant
2020-10-25T18:20:19 < BrainDamage> because the cross product is constant
2020-10-25T18:20:33 < BrainDamage> err, dot product
2020-10-25T18:21:35 < mawk> yes
2020-10-25T18:22:06 < mawk> but the total amount I computed isn't a straight line with velocity
2020-10-25T18:22:15 < mawk> for a little bit more rain you spare a lot of efforts
2020-10-25T18:22:40 < BrainDamage> depends on the distance traveled
2020-10-25T18:23:00 < mawk> yes I mean with a fixed distance
2020-10-25T18:23:09 < mawk> we fix distance and vary speed
2020-10-25T18:23:52 < mawk> but yes at least it's always better to run, if efforts are free
2020-10-25T18:25:27 < mawk> what I didn't understand was the horizontal rain
2020-10-25T18:25:33 < mawk> but I guess I see now
2020-10-25T18:25:41 < mawk> thanks
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2020-10-25T19:24:43 < Cracki> maybe time to grab a random video game's character model and run simulations
2020-10-25T19:40:27 < Cracki> intuition: change frames of reference to a "volume of rain". pedestrian either cuts across it straight (infinite speed) or diagonally. assuming pedestrian is a flat plane, volume "integrated" is the same, just skewed.
2020-10-25T19:41:20 < Cracki> assuming pedestrian has a "top side", that gets wetter the slower you go
2020-10-25T19:41:33 < mawk> yes
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2020-10-25T20:58:23 < emeb> Weird thing I'm seeing on ancient STM32F405 board I built years ago - trying to update its code from StdPeriph to HAL and it's behaving very glitchy. Changing code timing w/ optimizations and / or CPU speed can induce bus faults in strange places.
2020-10-25T20:59:31 < emeb> seeing garbage rendered to LCD screen which gets worse as more IRQ sources are added.
2020-10-25T20:59:51 < emeb> but wrapping IRQ disable/enable around render functions solves problem.
2020-10-25T21:00:23 < emeb> and wrapping IRQ disable/enable around code w/ bus faults also eliminates issues.
2020-10-25T21:02:11 < emeb> almost like IRQs are trashing stack and/or CPU state.
2020-10-25T21:11:46 < Mangy_Dog> Ok im seriously struggling to get the mpr121 to talk to the stm32f103... From this schematic and pcb layout can anyone see any obviouse reason why its not working? Far as i can tell the design IS correct as its pretty much matches the mpr121 module wireup.  The datasheet actually uses pullups but the modules dont. I dont have pullups on my design. Maybe thats the issue? https://www.stm32duin
2020-10-25T21:11:46 < Mangy_Dog> o.com/viewtopic.php?f=63&t=737&p=4820#p4820
2020-10-25T21:11:49 < Mangy_Dog> gah
2020-10-25T21:12:01 < Mangy_Dog> https://www.stm32duino.com/viewtopic.php?f=63&t=737&p=4820#p4820
2020-10-25T21:28:00 < Steffanx> "it doesnt work"
2020-10-25T21:28:19 < Steffanx> "You cannot access links on this board until you have accepted the Cookie Policy."
2020-10-25T21:29:01 < Mangy_Dog> gah
2020-10-25T21:29:18 -!- leite [~leite@lollae.com] has quit [Quit: so long and thanks for all the fish]
2020-10-25T21:29:22 < Mangy_Dog> go to the front page, main domain
2020-10-25T21:29:27 < Mangy_Dog> click accept there
2020-10-25T21:29:32 < Mangy_Dog> then the link should work
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2020-10-25T21:35:36 < karlp> emeb: what rev f4?
2020-10-25T21:37:27 < emeb> karlp: hmm... looking at the chip it's got these markings - STM32F405RGT6 GH22S VG CHN GH 136
2020-10-25T21:37:35 < emeb> I guess that's rev G?
2020-10-25T21:38:18  * karlp shrugs, just remember there were a few revs of it?
2020-10-25T21:38:30 < emeb> I built this board back in 2014
2020-10-25T21:44:28 < emeb> Ah - there's also a little "A" next to the ARM logo. New F405 chips have a "4" in that posn
2020-10-25T21:47:44 < emeb> gah - looking at the errata for the F40x parts... 
2020-10-25T21:48:00 < emeb> there have been *many* revs
2020-10-25T21:51:16 < Cracki> lol
2020-10-25T21:51:54 < emeb> A, Z, 1, 2, 4, and lately Y
2020-10-25T21:52:10 < emeb> and the A parts are particularly buggy.
2020-10-25T21:52:27 < Cracki> it's a tug of war between old stuff being "known" but silicon bugs keep piling up, vs new stuff having fixes but all the bugs haven't been discovered yet
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2020-10-25T22:35:03 < Steffanx> Laurenceb, your mom was here. She tried to call you but you didnt answer.
2020-10-25T22:47:33 < kakidoll> :o
2020-10-25T22:48:17 < mawk> can I play with you kakidoll ?
2020-10-25T22:48:29 < kakidoll> Only look
2020-10-25T22:48:32 < kakidoll> no touch
2020-10-25T22:48:37 < mawk> :(
2020-10-25T22:48:47 < kakidoll> it's not your doll
2020-10-25T22:48:55 < mawk> it's Steffanx's ?
2020-10-25T22:49:33 < kakidoll> maybe not
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2020-10-25T22:53:52 < Steffanx> Nah, join him in the sauna mawk. What happens in the sauna stays in the sauna.
2020-10-25T22:56:15 < Mangy_Dog> >.>
2020-10-25T22:56:40 < kakidoll> sweating and moaning noises
2020-10-25T22:58:21 < Mangy_Dog> sound sfun
2020-10-25T22:58:35 < kakidoll> steff knows the drill
2020-10-25T23:00:41 < mawk> lol
2020-10-25T23:00:49 < mawk> I don't like when it's too hot sorry
2020-10-25T23:00:53 < mawk> air temperature I mean
2020-10-25T23:02:46 < Steffanx> I didnt even go to the sauna when i was in finland
2020-10-25T23:03:26 < kakidoll> did you betray Finland by not going to sauna?
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2020-10-25T23:03:32 < mawk> lol
2020-10-25T23:03:47 < mawk> if I come to finland can I see your jägermeister mirror kakidoll ?
2020-10-25T23:04:27 < kakidoll> it's the greatest insult to not go to sauna in Finland Steffanx!
2020-10-25T23:05:12 < Steffanx> there was even one in the appartment where i slept for 2 weeks
2020-10-25T23:05:55 < kakidoll> did you typo or are you saying there was a sauna available for 2 weeks and you didn't try it?
2020-10-25T23:06:22 < mawk> lol
2020-10-25T23:06:48 < kakidoll> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S8s9uzPIqQ4 funny anime thing
2020-10-25T23:06:48 < BrainDamage> I think you've just admitted a national crime
2020-10-25T23:07:01 < BrainDamage> like burning an american flag in the us
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2020-10-25T23:07:26 < kakidoll> probably someone took a note that Steff didn't sauna
2020-10-25T23:07:37 < kakidoll> it's in the sauna violations register now
2020-10-25T23:08:25 < kakidoll> mawk: this place is a dump I rather not show anyone in full detail
2020-10-25T23:08:38 < Steffanx> no typo kakidoll
2020-10-25T23:08:42 < mawk> there is a woman roaming around at my place so I cannot let it go into dump state
2020-10-25T23:08:54 < mawk> probably I should throw her out of the window
2020-10-25T23:09:02 < kakidoll> ah
2020-10-25T23:09:12 < kakidoll> you need a special dump place
2020-10-25T23:09:21 < mawk> yes
2020-10-25T23:09:29 < mawk> where I can bring my mistress
2020-10-25T23:09:29 < kakidoll> were the woman has no access to
2020-10-25T23:09:36 < mawk> and leave cables on the table
2020-10-25T23:09:42 < kakidoll> oh yes
2020-10-25T23:11:55 < Steffanx> I did buy vodka kakidoll. And i wasnt even allowed to, because i wasnt old enough.
2020-10-25T23:12:04 < Steffanx> but they didnt check
2020-10-25T23:12:11 < Laurenceb> ><BrainDamage> like burning an american flag in the us
2020-10-25T23:12:13 < Laurenceb> kek
2020-10-25T23:12:20 < Laurenceb> >be murican
2020-10-25T23:12:22 < Laurenceb> >get shot and die
2020-10-25T23:12:34 < kakidoll> maybe it was before the new rules Steffanx
2020-10-25T23:12:46 < Laurenceb> I wonder how the wall is coming on
2020-10-25T23:12:48 < BrainDamage> you just take the boat to talinn
2020-10-25T23:13:10 < Laurenceb>  "dont talk about me or my wifes wall ever again"
2020-10-25T23:13:27 < BrainDamage> the decks on that cruise must be encrusted with vomit
2020-10-25T23:13:39 < BrainDamage> between the alcohol and the seasickness
2020-10-25T23:13:43 < kakidoll> those cruises smell like piss
2020-10-25T23:13:43 < Laurenceb> Melania is basically russian grrrl from babbyshake
2020-10-25T23:14:12 < kakidoll> I wonder if someone just always takes a whizz to the floors
2020-10-25T23:14:13 < Laurenceb> powerdressing and evil stares
2020-10-25T23:14:47 < kakidoll> powerdressing :o
2020-10-25T23:14:47 < Steffanx> i dont recall the age, but it must have been 21. It said on some card in the shop, kakidoll.
2020-10-25T23:15:03 < Steffanx> I only realize it was THAT long i ago i was in finland lol.
2020-10-25T23:15:15 < kakidoll> 20 or 21 for liqour I cannot be arsed to check
2020-10-25T23:15:41 < kakidoll> nowdays everyone looking like under 30 is checked
2020-10-25T23:16:11 < Mangy_Dog> i wasnt even checked when i was 16 >.>
2020-10-25T23:16:22 < Mangy_Dog> im 38 now and theres no mistaking me for being under 18 :p
2020-10-25T23:16:22 < Steffanx> But that was 20 years ago?
2020-10-25T23:16:28 < kakidoll> no
2020-10-25T23:16:44 < Steffanx> my client is awfully slow today, whyy
2020-10-25T23:16:54 < kakidoll> malwares
2020-10-25T23:17:09 < kakidoll> freetype exploit
2020-10-25T23:17:16 < Steffanx> i think so
2020-10-25T23:17:22 < Steffanx> quassel..
2020-10-25T23:17:29 < Steffanx> it just takes ages for the pessage to be send
2020-10-25T23:17:36 < Cracki> f̸̭̪r̻e̘̻̻̮e̘̭t̫͚̘͞ͅͅy̧͎̥̗p̪͚̤̲̱͟e̻̙̥̭ ̱͇̥̥e͈̠̣̰̥x̱̠͕͍̫̝͟p̷͙̫͈̱̖l͏͎͇̳̪̼o̵̠i̶̙̟͓͓̬ͅt͍̥̺͍̻ͅ ̶̠͙̘͍in͍̕ ͕̹͞p̨͓̰̘r̺ͅo͖g̪r̛̜͙̝͍e̵s͘s̶͍͓̘̭̰ 
2020-10-25T23:17:52 < Steffanx> awh
2020-10-25T23:18:05 < mawk> sorry I could read it Cracki 
2020-10-25T23:18:10 < mawk> it's not exploiting enough
2020-10-25T23:18:25 < Steffanx> Hidden exploits are the best exploits.
2020-10-25T23:18:46 < Cracki> I'm afraid of posting the more severe options because I know they _do_ tax some text rendering, kinda like too much -O can be too much http://www.eeemo.net/
2020-10-25T23:19:27 < mawk> m̧̘̠̖̟ͧͭͥͮ̀ͯ̕͘͞ą̷͔̜͎̭͇̯̤̰͖͎̦̘̤͋ͫ̄̈́̉̒̓̌̓̿ͩ̊ͣ̉̀̓̚͜x̴͇̜̯̗̪̣̑͂̂̑ͤͮ̔̑̆̎̌̑ͥ̏̓ͮ̈̚̚͟ͅi͆͂̓̉͂̽͜҉̡͏̯̤̙͔͕̺̫̟̰̱̺͉̣͕̺̝̙
2020-10-25T23:19:30 < mawk> ̴͇͇̺̹̗̪̣͓̤̰̥̖͚̹ͤ̓͊͒ͩ̌̕͝͝f̴̴̤͙̙̫̼̭̬͇̝̺̻͕̪̜̫̘̺̥̊ͪͯͩͥ͋ͫ́̊͗͂̐͂ͦ̒́u̡̎̏̃́͑ͨ̎ͯ̓ͥ̀͏̱̯͙̯͙͈̫̠̭͓̳̦̬̪ͅc̵̭̩̦͍͉̜͓͚͎̩͑̔͗̐͒ͨ̈́̀ͥ̋͑͆̋̍̀̕͢͝ķ̴̰̫͙̥̪͔̱̮̤̞̮͍̳̖̭͉̝̽͌͌̿̋̐̉̉ͤ͊ͬ͛̈ͯ̅ͩ̐̍̀u̸̢͙͍̹̘̳̦͇͈̫͕̿̌̈́ͭ͂̈́ͪ͗́͆͆ͮͣͦ̇́͑ͬ̀͜pͫ̔̍ͩ͊͌͛ͦ̔̂
2020-10-25T23:19:32 < mawk> ̢̪̳̱͔̙̈́̿͑̃̅͘͜ͅͅͅ
2020-10-25T23:19:34 < mawk> not very pretty
2020-10-25T23:19:43 < mawk> it messed up weechat's detection of \n though
2020-10-25T23:19:50 < mawk> probably I could submit a bug report with that
2020-10-25T23:22:42 < kakidoll> so you were 10years old back then steff and you bought vodka?
2020-10-25T23:32:19 < PaulFertser> Have you considered https://github.com/embox/embox a POSIXy RTOS?
2020-10-25T23:32:41 < Steffanx> kakidoll, exactly
2020-10-25T23:33:11 < Steffanx> "Embox main idea is using Linux software without Linux." :D
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2020-10-25T23:58:35 < Steffanx> Its a russian creatiom PaulFertser ?
2020-10-25T23:59:21 < PaulFertser> Steffanx: yes
--- Day changed Mon Oct 26 2020
2020-10-26T00:05:23 < mawk> as posix rtos there's RTEMS PaulFertser 
2020-10-26T00:05:29 < mawk> I've almost contributed to it
2020-10-26T00:05:36 < karlp> nuttx is also ~pseudo posix.
2020-10-26T00:05:38 < mawk> expanded the ipv6 stack with some bits
2020-10-26T00:05:59 < mawk> embox stuff looks cool though
2020-10-26T00:06:04 < mawk> rtems is an absolute monster to compile
2020-10-26T00:06:34 < mawk> they have their custom build system written from scratch in python, they apply dozens of patches to various tools including compiler and linker, downloading the patches on the fly from http:// webservers, and more goodies
2020-10-26T00:06:51 < mawk> you build gcc like two times during compilation
2020-10-26T00:07:14 < karlp> rtems looks like the sort of you think you only start using because your project already uses it.
2020-10-26T00:07:34 < karlp> I remember trying to understand the appeal a while ago, and just noping the fuck out of it.
2020-10-26T00:07:35 < mawk> lol
2020-10-26T00:08:16 < mawk> there's this thing they're doing with ESA like aerospace certification or something
2020-10-26T00:08:19 < mawk> probably that's a reason to use it
2020-10-26T00:09:01 < karlp> yeah, ie, "project alreday uses it"
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2020-10-26T00:47:03 < BrainDamage> youtube-dl taken down from DMCA because they think "it facilitates piracy" https://github.com/github/dmca/blob/master/2020/10/2020-10-23-RIAA.md
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2020-10-26T00:54:45 < Cracki> >good faith belief
2020-10-26T00:54:52 < Cracki> throw them off the edge of the world
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2020-10-26T01:20:33 < englishman> lol
2020-10-26T01:20:41 < englishman> better take down google chrome too
2020-10-26T01:21:03 < Cracki> they'll hit the python package index eventually
2020-10-26T01:21:24 < Cracki> because that's how people *get* that thing (or download some package but that's lame)
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2020-10-26T01:30:29 < mawk> I get it from debian repo
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2020-10-26T02:01:10 < Cracki> they just used a 10 year old photo of my university because it was turned from a somewhat green place into a concrete hell and they were too ashamed to show that
2020-10-26T02:01:52 < Cracki> and they can get away with it because all the news kids will only see this place through zoom meetings anyway
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2020-10-26T04:15:50 < Laurenceb> wtf
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2020-10-26T04:16:10 < Laurenceb> ppl are selling ammonium nitrate online in uk
2020-10-26T04:16:22 < Laurenceb> inb4 terrorist bomb
2020-10-26T04:17:29 < Laurenceb> uk is a weird place
2020-10-26T04:18:00 < Laurenceb> pretty sure that would get u v& in usa
2020-10-26T04:23:09 < Laurenceb> maybe I just found the mi5 sting ebay account
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2020-10-26T04:42:33 < Laurenceb> lol
2020-10-26T04:42:35 < Laurenceb> https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/av/uk-54669239
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2020-10-26T08:19:20 < benishor> https://mobile.twitter.com/lrvick/status/1320246266270519297
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2020-10-26T12:13:33 < Cracki> fertilizer who would need fertilizer? certainly not the farmers that feed us all
2020-10-26T12:18:15 < Steffanx> So in 2013 a piece of code was changed (changed some behaviour of the device pretty much), in 2015 the manual was last updated (by the client), in 2020 the client realizes or has questions about why the device does not work according to the manual. Fucking hell, they dont even know how their own device should work.
2020-10-26T12:18:57 < Steffanx> Funny note: There are probably thousands, maybe even tens of thousands of those devices out there in the world.
2020-10-26T12:19:03 < effractur> and nobody reads the manuel
2020-10-26T12:19:05 < effractur> :D
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2020-10-26T12:26:48 < Steffanx> Yes, but this makes me cry. You should know how YOUR product works/behaves.
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2020-10-26T13:20:50 < mawk> I'm not often proud of the french state, but this time I have good reasons to
2020-10-26T13:20:52 < mawk> Macron stands his ground on the terrorist-in-chief-muhammad caricatures
2020-10-26T13:21:26 < Steffanx> Yeah he made the turks love him. 
2020-10-26T13:21:48 < mawk> we should bomb that erdogan guy
2020-10-26T13:25:07 < mawk> it's time we outlaw islam, but given so many of them are here now it's too late
2020-10-26T13:25:19 < mawk> let's give them south of france
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2020-10-26T13:33:42 < Steffanx> Better go back to work mawk
2020-10-26T13:33:57 < mawk> why
2020-10-26T13:34:00 < mawk> it's lunch time
2020-10-26T13:34:01 < Steffanx> because i say so
2020-10-26T13:34:07 < mawk> :(
2020-10-26T13:34:19 < Steffanx> lol
2020-10-26T13:40:33 < Cracki> ask the spaniards how to deal with them
2020-10-26T13:40:42 < Cracki> also ask them how it happened
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2020-10-26T13:43:09 < Steffanx> hm
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2020-10-26T15:02:37 < Steffanx> Are there elections any time soon in france mr mawk?
2020-10-26T15:03:11 < Steffanx> is mr macron just doing it for the bühne, while the wound is still fresh or ... ?
2020-10-26T15:21:50 < mawk> he's doing it because it's the right thing to do in this situation
2020-10-26T15:21:55 < mawk> if he listens to the will of the people
2020-10-26T15:22:40 < Steffanx> but its useless when next year he "forgot" about it and its all same-old-same-old.
2020-10-26T15:22:42 < mawk> one more denial of the rampant islamoleftism that gangrenes the left, one more denial of the islamic character of terror attacks, one more call against "islamophobia", would have been the straw breaking the camel's back
2020-10-26T15:22:46 < mawk> yeah probably
2020-10-26T15:22:52 < mawk> that's why we need to get Marine next election
2020-10-26T15:23:14 < Steffanx> "we", you fucking frenchy :P
2020-10-26T15:23:18 < mawk> lol
2020-10-26T15:23:24 < mawk> I'll vote in NL too don't worry
2020-10-26T15:23:31 < mawk> I can even go to the LU consulate and vote for them
2020-10-26T15:23:42  * mawk advancing far-right in 3 countries at the same time
2020-10-26T15:23:56 < Steffanx> Im your "we" now, not those french speaking bastards in that country a 1500 km away.
2020-10-26T15:24:01 < Steffanx> or is it less thatn that, probably less
2020-10-26T15:24:04 < Steffanx> a lot less
2020-10-26T15:24:06 < mawk> lol
2020-10-26T15:24:09 < mawk> less yes
2020-10-26T15:24:16 < mawk> remmeber NL was part of the french napoleonian empire
2020-10-26T15:27:20 < Steffanx> A sad time in the history of dutchland yes.
2020-10-26T15:27:58 < mawk> lol
2020-10-26T15:28:01 < mawk> nonsense
2020-10-26T15:30:24 < Steffanx> i always like to hear about the times of the Geuzen more: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Geuzen
2020-10-26T15:30:48 < mawk> gueux
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2020-10-26T15:43:03 < Steffanx> oui oui
2020-10-26T15:47:47 < mawk> what happens if I feed negative voltage to stm32 analog input
2020-10-26T15:47:51 < mawk> it just gets clamped and no damage?
2020-10-26T15:48:00 < mawk> assuming AVSS = 0
2020-10-26T16:05:05 < karlp> data hseet has absolute limits
2020-10-26T16:06:44 < Steffanx> Anyone here ever used a proper bluetooth and wifi module with STM32? Not some weird AT command shit?
2020-10-26T16:11:49 < zyp> what's the difference?
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2020-10-26T16:13:42  * karlp only intends to use them as a soc themselves, not bolting on an stm32 too...
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2020-10-26T16:14:25 < qyx> the difference is the AT command shit
2020-10-26T16:14:36 < zyp> as opposed to what?
2020-10-26T16:15:24 < karlp> esp32s can be sdio periphs  right?
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2020-10-26T16:15:51 < qyx> to a proper configuration interface over spi, i2c, sdio or other reasonable protocol
2020-10-26T16:17:10 < qyx> because things like unsolicited responses, auto baudrate, inconsistent command/reponse formats, etc
2020-10-26T16:17:15 < qyx> make things harder
2020-10-26T16:20:36 < steverrrr> I have, except it was atmel and 802.15.4 : \
2020-10-26T16:20:57 < zyp> I'd say AT vs non-AT is a too loose classification to make any sort of useful argumentation around
2020-10-26T16:21:48 < zyp> being that AT itself is a fairly loose command format
2020-10-26T16:23:48 < zyp> are there even any decent wifi interface standards?
2020-10-26T16:24:11 < zyp> bluetooth got HCI, but I'm not sure how fun that is to work with
2020-10-26T16:32:55 < Steffanx> alright:  "Not some shitty AT Command set" ;)
2020-10-26T16:32:58 < Steffanx> Better? 
2020-10-26T16:33:31 < mawk> who doesn't love AT commands?
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2020-10-26T16:33:47 < mawk> thanks to Hayes corporation now we even have that thing in NB-IOT controllers!
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2020-10-26T16:34:18 < Steffanx> Its not mainly  the AT command set but what qyx already said. "because things like unsolicited responses, auto baudrate, inconsistent command/reponse formats, etc"
2020-10-26T16:35:01 < zyp> baudrate has nothing to do with AT, you can run AT over synchronous transports
2020-10-26T16:35:19 < zyp> IMO the main problem with AT is that it's text based, so you have to do text handling
2020-10-26T16:37:23 < Steffanx> Anyway, i read you clearly never really used a porper module ? ;)
2020-10-26T16:39:32 < mawk> you're just lacking good will Steffanx 
2020-10-26T16:39:32 < zyp> yeah, I'm not sure they exist :p
2020-10-26T16:47:51 < steverrrr> does AT have asynchrnous messages or is polling only
2020-10-26T16:50:41 < Steffanx> It has "asynchrnous messages". Like you can tell some modules: Send me a message when an SMS is received. And it will do so "out of the blue".
2020-10-26T16:51:18 < Steffanx> in case of some cellular module, not bluetooth/wifi ;)
2020-10-26T16:51:35 < Steffanx> unless they did give it SMS functionality
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2020-10-26T16:51:55 < steverrrr> right.  I prefer the SPI synchrnous-only
2020-10-26T16:52:42 < mawk> they don't do it when you're typing in another command at least steverrrr 
2020-10-26T16:52:44 < mawk> Steffanx: 
2020-10-26T16:52:46 < mawk> go away steverrrr 
2020-10-26T16:52:54 < steverrrr> at the stack API level, register access commands look similar enough to AT comands anyway
2020-10-26T16:53:16 < mawk> ah sorry steverrrr I thought you were idle and my client highlighted you for no reason
2020-10-26T16:53:24 < mawk> you can stay here
2020-10-26T16:53:36 < steverrrr> lol
2020-10-26T16:55:22 < steverrrr> but of course AT is nice when using PPP to "dial" to the internet and give a network inteface to linux
2020-10-26T16:57:22 < Steffanx> bye mawk
2020-10-26T16:57:30 < mawk> :(
2020-10-26T16:58:01 < Steffanx> Have some music https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w0AOGeqOnFY
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2020-10-26T17:07:29 < Steffanx> Heh, did the ST website change once again?
2020-10-26T17:13:47 < mawk> their webdevs have to justify their salary
2020-10-26T17:14:20 < emeb> OK - dumb question: What could prevent the systick IRQ on an H7 from running?
2020-10-26T17:14:44 < emeb> I've confirmed that the systick control regs are properly set up (enables, clk sources etc)
2020-10-26T17:14:55 < emeb> and that the counter is running - I can see the value changing.
2020-10-26T17:15:08 < emeb> but I'm not getting an interrupt.
2020-10-26T17:15:11 < mawk> irq priority mask?
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2020-10-26T17:16:08 < emeb> yeah, I can see the HAL code which sets that is being run, but I haven't looked at it specifically.
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2020-10-26T17:17:54 < mawk> so I guess you should verify that the mask value is not higher than the systick irq priority
2020-10-26T17:17:58 < mawk> or the other way around maybe
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2020-10-26T17:33:07 < Steffanx> That moment when company X takes over another company Y and breaks half of the resources there were available before ( like docs and community related stuff)
2020-10-26T17:35:03 < emeb> Gah - where is the systick priority set? CMSIS files say that SCB-SHPR[] has 12 regs, but ARM M7 docs say only 3. WTF?
2020-10-26T17:45:51 < emeb> well, systick priority is same here as in a known working system. 
2020-10-26T17:46:16 < emeb> if SCB->SHPR[11] is the right place to look...
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2020-10-26T17:52:45 < karlp> is that bytes vs words? 3
2020-10-26T17:52:49 < karlp> 3*4 == 1
2020-10-26T17:55:14 < emeb> I don't think so
2020-10-26T17:55:38 < emeb> the ARM docs say that SHPR1 - SHPR3 are 32-bit regs
2020-10-26T17:56:05 < emeb> the CMSIS defs for H7 say that SHPR is an array of 32-bit values of length 12
2020-10-26T17:56:13 < karlp> nvic enabled + systick enmabled?
2020-10-26T17:56:50 < emeb> systick is enabled - I can see it counting.
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2020-10-26T17:57:19 < emeb> I don't think that systick routes through the NVIC - its settings are in the SCB
2020-10-26T17:58:27 < emeb> (by "see it counting" I mean that I can read the systick VAL register and watch it changing)
2020-10-26T18:05:05 < steverrrr> emeb using HAL+FreeRTOS?
2020-10-26T18:05:25 < emeb> steverrrr: HAL + bare metal
2020-10-26T18:08:05 < steverrrr> and systick ISR stops at runtime or never fires at all?  i usually get away with removing code until I find it : \
2020-10-26T18:11:52 < emeb> steverrrr: It never seems to fire at all.
2020-10-26T18:12:09 < emeb> note that this is somewhat complex due to a bootloader that runs first.
2020-10-26T18:12:41 < emeb> @ POR / reset the bootloader runs, checks to see if user wants to flash code and then chainloads to main app at offset.
2020-10-26T18:12:56 < emeb> I've got a working main app that uses systick just fine.
2020-10-26T18:13:09 < steverrrr> does the bootloader use systick?
2020-10-26T18:13:22 < emeb> but now I'm trying to code up an alternate app based on main app.
2020-10-26T18:13:29 < emeb> and it doesn't work.
2020-10-26T18:13:43 < emeb> yes - bootloader uses systick
2020-10-26T18:18:33 < steverrrr> using an empty main while(1){} then delete lines of initialization until the systick starts firing :\
2020-10-26T18:20:19 < steverrrr> does the app call HAL_InitTick() ?
2020-10-26T18:24:44 < emeb> yes
2020-10-26T18:25:43 < jpa-> emeb: in my CMSIS headers it is __IOM uint8_t  SHPR[12U];  which is bytes like karlp says
2020-10-26T18:25:52 < jpa-> https://github.com/ARM-software/CMSIS/blob/master/CMSIS/Include/core_cm7.h#L508
2020-10-26T18:26:16 < emeb> jpa-: Hah - derp. yes mine too. 
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2020-10-26T18:26:38 < emeb> so that part makes sense.
2020-10-26T18:26:52 < emeb> but still wondering why systick handler isn't being called.
2020-10-26T18:27:50 < emeb> if I flash the failing app into the normal start location (instead of the bootloader) then it works fine.
2020-10-26T18:28:11 < emeb> so something in the handoff from bootloader to failing app is locking out the systick
2020-10-26T18:28:27 < emeb> but it works fine when chainloading the "main" app that I based it on.
2020-10-26T18:30:45 < steverrrr> erase all non-bootloader flash and try again, also double check main() is linked to the correct address.
2020-10-26T18:31:15 < steverrrr> does app use different systick ISR or the bootloader "keeps" the one
2020-10-26T18:31:53 < emeb> app has its own VTOR and uses different ISRs
2020-10-26T18:33:51 < jpa-> emeb: do other interrupts work?
2020-10-26T18:34:28 < emeb> jpa-: can't tell - not getting far enough.
2020-10-26T18:34:32 < emeb> But
2020-10-26T18:34:36 < emeb> fixed it.
2020-10-26T18:35:07 < emeb> forgot that I had a customized version of system_stm32h7xx.c for the main app.
2020-10-26T18:35:33 < emeb> so failed app was using default one which doesn't set up stuff same.
2020-10-26T18:35:50 < emeb> thx for all the helps - jogged my memory.
2020-10-26T18:37:25 < emeb> customized file treats VTOR differently.
2020-10-26T18:37:52 < steverrrr> ouch, yeah open closed prinicple, don't touch
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2020-10-26T19:32:43 < Ecco> Hi :)
2020-10-26T19:33:00 < Ecco> Quick question: what is the "VBat mode", as opposed to "standby"?
2020-10-26T19:33:27 < Ecco> My understanding is that it's an even deeper sleep mode
2020-10-26T19:33:38 < Ecco> and that you can only exit it from a RTC event
2020-10-26T19:33:53 < Ecco> (so like even a button press wouldn't be able to wake up the device from VBAT mode)
2020-10-26T19:33:56 < Ecco> Is that correct,
2020-10-26T19:33:57 < Ecco> ?
2020-10-26T19:36:37 < jpa-> Ecco: Vbat mode is that Vdd pin is not supplied with power, only Vbat is
2020-10-26T19:36:50 < jpa-> so RTC and whatever is in "backup domain" stays on, everything else is off
2020-10-26T19:36:57 < jpa-> and you can only exit it by providing Vdd supply
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2020-10-26T19:41:07 < apathy> https://github.com/github/dmca/tree/416da574ec0df3388f652e44f7fe71b1e3a4701f
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2020-10-26T19:55:50 < Ecco> oh, ok, makes sense! Thanks!
2020-10-26T20:10:42 < BrainDamage> apathy:  git clone https://github.com/github/dmca
2020-10-26T20:10:42 < BrainDamage> git fetch origin 416da574ec0df3388f652e44f7fe71b1e3a4701f
2020-10-26T20:10:42 < BrainDamage> git checkout 416da574ec0df3388f652e44f7fe71b1e3a4701f
2020-10-26T20:12:33 < jpa-> so hm, why is that in the dmca repo? some funny stuff with pull requests?
2020-10-26T20:13:43 < BrainDamage> yes, github heavily deduplicates repos and bundles together PR and repo itself
2020-10-26T20:14:18 < BrainDamage> so the moment someone opened the PR and someone commented on it, it's there to stay, unless they manually overhaul it
2020-10-26T20:14:55 < BrainDamage> git is enough smart to not fetch the PR data because they are dangling, that's why you need to manually fetch the dangling branch
2020-10-26T20:18:08 < apathy> yeah
2020-10-26T20:18:36 < apathy> the skiddies have figured out how to game this to troll organizations hosting their shit on M$
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2020-10-26T20:52:10 < Steffanx> hm
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2020-10-26T21:22:08 < kakidoll> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FdAh2HJ98WE
2020-10-26T21:22:40 < benishor> just put together a grblHAL breakout board for teensy 4.1
2020-10-26T21:22:47 < benishor> I think it's just pretty
2020-10-26T21:22:49 < benishor> https://photos.app.goo.gl/55XJXzjUZHHj3LV89
2020-10-26T21:36:53 < antto> dafuq has kakim0r transformed into now?!
2020-10-26T21:38:23 < antto> i lost track of his metamorphosis, i can't tell if he's going up or down or in some completely other axis in an Nth dimension
2020-10-26T21:38:30 < Cracki> lol that video looks like she's speaking at a wake
2020-10-26T21:39:21 < kakidoll> I laughed a lot
2020-10-26T21:39:32 < Cracki> I can't handle her tone of voice
2020-10-26T21:40:10 < kakidoll> they should have put someone with more tolerance for trump there
2020-10-26T21:40:36 < kakidoll> but this works too
2020-10-26T21:40:55 < Cracki> anyway. teensy
2020-10-26T21:41:46 < Cracki> 4.1, that wasn't the huge new beast right? oh, it is, an imxrt1062
2020-10-26T21:41:56 < Cracki> I thought he was up to 4.6 already
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2020-10-26T21:46:37 < kakidoll> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6ExVgUy95nA more comedy
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2020-10-26T21:48:51 < Steffanx> It makes me cringe kakidoll
2020-10-26T21:48:59 < Steffanx> i rather watch a show of Jimmy Carr on the netflix.
2020-10-26T21:49:35 < kakidoll> I would not
2020-10-26T21:50:43 < Steffanx> You finnishers have no humor.
2020-10-26T21:50:47 < Steffanx> it is known
2020-10-26T21:51:25 < kakidoll> Idk
2020-10-26T21:51:39 < Steffanx> or maybe... this formula one driver Raikkonen has humor. Humor by the abscence of words.
2020-10-26T21:51:49 < Steffanx> *Räikkönen
2020-10-26T21:51:54 < kakidoll> but I think the url I gave was pretty comic
2020-10-26T21:52:36 < kakidoll> haven't had a laught like that for a while
2020-10-26T21:52:41 < Steffanx> Hardly anything with (possible) yankee presidents in it is funny.
2020-10-26T21:54:41 < kakidoll> that makes it funny
2020-10-26T21:56:25 < Cracki> non-yankee muricans are offended
2020-10-26T21:57:27 < Steffanx> im disappointed kakidoll
2020-10-26T21:59:36 < kakidoll> I watched some parodies about the debate -> boring
2020-10-26T21:59:52 < kakidoll> watch actual debate -> almost piss myself
2020-10-26T22:00:50 < Steffanx> Are you on drugs now?
2020-10-26T22:01:11 < kakidoll> a bootle of lager
2020-10-26T22:01:17 < kakidoll> *bottle
2020-10-26T22:03:22 < kakidoll> the normal
2020-10-26T22:04:52 < kakidoll> I had a dream I had actual drugs - if it counts
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2020-10-26T22:32:50 < kakidoll> Steffanx: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gHMdnKPvPZM my answer
2020-10-26T22:33:16 < Steffanx> Affirmative
2020-10-26T22:37:26 < kakidoll> night problem: input is 0,1,2,3,4.. and outputs should be pattern ..1, 1 ,0,-1,-1,-1, 0, 1, 1, 1, 0,-1,-1,-1, 0...
2020-10-26T22:38:20 < kakidoll> can it be done with % / and - =
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2020-10-26T22:40:46 < kakidoll> maybe I should just hard code those 8 elements I need
2020-10-26T22:41:12 < kakidoll> I have been thinking about this a hour now maybe
2020-10-26T22:42:03 < Steffanx> What is it....
2020-10-26T22:42:55 < Thorn> int8_t pattern[]{1,1,1, 0, -1-1-1, 0};  return pattern[i%sizeof(pattern)];
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2020-10-26T22:43:47 < kakidoll> Steffanx: 8 directions
2020-10-26T22:44:35 < kakidoll> Thorn: this is scala but I should have had just a list
2020-10-26T22:44:45 < kakidoll> makes sense now
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2020-10-26T22:51:18 < kakidoll> Steffanx:     def diagonals = Vector[Vector[Int]](Vector(0,-1),Vector(1,-1),Vector(1,0),Vector(1,1),Vector(0,1),Vector(-1,1),Vector(-1,0),Vector(-1,-1))
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2020-10-26T22:52:09 < Steffanx> you magically changed the output to a vector of vectors?
2020-10-26T22:52:30 < Steffanx> What are you up to mr kakidoll?
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2020-10-26T22:55:35 < kakidoll> I got lured into high level programming languages
2020-10-26T22:56:08 < Steffanx> but what are you high level programming
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2020-10-26T22:56:30 < kakidoll> minesweeper
2020-10-26T22:57:37 < Steffanx> ah
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2020-10-27T01:48:09 < qyx> any recommended precision gyro?
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2020-10-27T01:48:20  * qyx browsing analol.com
2020-10-27T01:48:45 < BrainDamage> do you want to launch an ICBM? laser gyros
2020-10-27T01:58:22 < jadew> just finished watching queen's gambit (short series) - I enjoyed it
2020-10-27T02:14:54 < Cracki> >The Queen's Gambit centers the "life of an orphan chess prodigy" named Beth Harmon "from the age of eight to twenty-two, as she struggles with addiction in a quest" to become a grandmaster in chess.
2020-10-27T02:15:42 < kakidoll> episode 5 jadew
2020-10-27T02:15:47 < kakidoll> how much to go?
2020-10-27T02:16:10 < jadew> kakidoll, 2 more
2020-10-27T02:16:25 < kakidoll> ez
2020-10-27T02:16:32 < kakidoll> let's do dis
2020-10-27T02:16:36 < jadew> :)
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2020-10-27T02:19:59 < kakidoll> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mREi_Bb85Sk musics from the series
2020-10-27T02:20:26 < kakidoll> I didn't know this apparently original version
2020-10-27T02:20:42 < kakidoll> only vanessa mae version
2020-10-27T02:22:02 < jadew> I know this song from somewhere else too
2020-10-27T02:22:52 < jadew> ah, it was in top 10 in '68
2020-10-27T02:23:32 < jadew> "Tomorrow I'm gonna punch Lenny in the back of the head!" this comment throws me back
2020-10-27T02:23:37 < jadew> I got punched in the back of the head
2020-10-27T02:23:51 < kakidoll> ?
2020-10-27T02:23:54 < jadew> and two days ago I told that story for the very first time
2020-10-27T02:23:58 < jadew> told it to my son
2020-10-27T02:24:27 < jadew> I beat someone at Mortal Kombat when I was a kid
2020-10-27T02:25:10 < jadew> he rage "quit", came back and punched me in the back of the head when I was playing someone else
2020-10-27T02:25:56 < jadew> it's just weird that I see that comment
2020-10-27T02:27:09 < jadew> anyway, time for bed
2020-10-27T02:27:12 < jadew> night
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2020-10-27T03:04:36 < Cracki> numbers: average age of german rona deaths: 80. life expectancy: around 81. ~10000 deaths. i.e. 10k people lost on average a year of life. per capita that is one hour
2020-10-27T03:05:04 < Cracki> brb scaring up numbers for fukushima, chernobyl, smoking, and driving a car
2020-10-27T03:06:36 < Cracki> on ~400k of cases, i.e. "if you're a smoker...", having the rona takes 9 days away from you
2020-10-27T03:13:35 < Cracki> really if you're a smoker, I find numbers of 4-10 years lost
2020-10-27T03:14:48 < Cracki> "[if no evacuation] the local population’s average life expectancy would have fallen by less than three months" https://theconversation.com/evacuating-a-nuclear-disaster-areas-is-usually-a-waste-of-time-and-money-says-study-87697
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2020-10-27T03:15:43 < Cracki> 90 days, vs 9 days is factor of 10, vs 1 hour is factor of 2000
2020-10-27T03:16:46 < Cracki> granted, focusing on the immediate surrounding area inflates those numbers. figured for world population things flip
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2020-10-27T03:21:43 < Cracki> 3 months off 110k local people is ~2 minutes off the world population so I guess the rona is ~1800 as bad? :>
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2020-10-27T11:17:50 < karlp> how much time have we all lost listening your spewing?
2020-10-27T11:24:34 < Steffanx> 0
2020-10-27T11:24:37 < Steffanx> .0
2020-10-27T11:25:02 < Steffanx> Good morning karlp. How are you on this wonderful morning?
2020-10-27T11:32:26 < karlp> not bad, beautiful sunrise this morning.
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2020-10-27T11:48:15 < qyx> yeah, it lasted about half an hour
2020-10-27T11:48:24 < qyx> now it is super cloudy
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2020-10-27T11:57:02 < karlp> can I deprecate an entire set of enums? or do I have to mark them deprecated one by one? https://paste.jvnv.net/view/mFVbk
2020-10-27T11:57:14 < karlp> I'm not getting a warning on using the enum value
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2020-10-27T12:38:38 < Streaker> "Indicates that the name or entity declared with this attribute is deprecated"
2020-10-27T12:38:45 < Streaker> i2c_cr2_freq_values  is a name right?
2020-10-27T12:39:38 < Streaker> I2C_CR2_FREQ_10MHZ is a value
2020-10-27T12:41:18 < karlp> ok, test code means I have to mark the values themselves
2020-10-27T12:41:25 < karlp> otherwise it only warns on the direct use of the enum
2020-10-27T12:41:58 < karlp> https://paste.jvnv.net/view/padvv
2020-10-27T12:42:07 < Streaker> try a different compiler?
2020-10-27T12:42:23 < karlp> until I put the attr on the value BLAH2, I didnt' get any warning on the direct usage of it.
2020-10-27T12:42:55 < karlp> meh, I can jsut regexp the attribute onto each value, I guess.
2020-10-27T12:43:10 < karlp> deprecated code is allowed to be gross.
2020-10-27T12:43:35 < Thorn> __attribute__ ((deprecated)) is deprecated, this is the standard one https://en.cppreference.com/w/cpp/language/attributes/deprecated
2020-10-27T12:44:23 < karlp> I'm not going to care much about your c++ reference for c code :)
2020-10-27T12:49:33 < karlp> done: https://paste.jvnv.net/view/1aeDI
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2020-10-27T13:23:31 < Steffanx> Here have some boom boom music for your dutch carnival experience mawk https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WMonXNRSlgo
2020-10-27T13:25:01 < jpa-> karlp: so what clock frequency is that? running I2C at 36MHz sounds a bit fast :)
2020-10-27T13:29:19 < Steffanx> He  didnt write I2S properly. like i did id a dozen times as wel.
2020-10-27T13:29:33 < Steffanx> l
2020-10-27T13:29:56 < jpa-> or maybe it is the cpu freq or something
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2020-10-27T13:45:37 < karlp> yeah, it's one of these shitty figures you give to the i2c periph to calculate trise crap
2020-10-27T13:46:22 < karlp> i2c_cr2.freq bits.
2020-10-27T13:46:44 < karlp> https://bin.jvnv.net/file/jk8su.png
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2020-10-27T13:57:43 < BrainDamage> https://nitter.net/AMD/status/1321038987964878849
2020-10-27T14:01:38 < karlp> last two people on the danceflor right?
2020-10-27T14:04:11 < karlp> watching this "memory mapped devices as objects - cpp con 2020" and it just keeps being, "we'd just do this in c, but ... here's how to do it in c++, with way more syntax noise and technobabble"
2020-10-27T14:04:39 < karlp> I'm sure it's "safer" but fuck me.
2020-10-27T14:07:52 < Steffanx> BrainDamage i recall the chinese werent happy yet a week or so ago?
2020-10-27T14:09:41 < karlp> pages of shit and it finally ends up with what zyp does for his c++ defns
2020-10-27T14:11:28 < Steffanx> Except that mr Z doesnt use "new" 
2020-10-27T14:12:30 < Steffanx> or do they move away from that later on?
2020-10-27T14:13:02 < karlp> not sure, I've not finished it yet? I've not noticed them using new yet.
2020-10-27T14:13:14 < karlp> he's up toi slide 44, "the right dose of volatility"
2020-10-27T14:15:06 < mawk> your site is broken BrainDamage 
2020-10-27T14:15:15 < mawk> "this card type is not supported"
2020-10-27T14:17:15 < Steffanx> I changed the n to tw but twitter.net is a different website -_-
2020-10-27T14:18:54 < karlp> this "card type" ?
2020-10-27T14:20:00 < Steffanx> See mr BD's nitter link.
2020-10-27T14:20:07 < karlp> yeh, I opened it.
2020-10-27T14:20:21 < karlp> oh, I didn't even notice that.
2020-10-27T14:20:30 < Steffanx> Its just some link to the amd website
2020-10-27T14:20:47 < karlp> it's just a preview thing?
2020-10-27T14:21:10 < Steffanx> Previewish
2020-10-27T14:23:41 < BrainDamage> click on the twitter icon on the top right to be redirected to the original page
2020-10-27T14:25:44 < Steffanx> oh lol
2020-10-27T14:26:01 < Steffanx> such TINY icon -_-
2020-10-27T14:26:13 < Steffanx> Didnt even see it
2020-10-27T14:26:40 < mawk> which carnival Steffanx 
2020-10-27T14:29:36 < Steffanx> The dutchy one
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2020-10-27T14:57:47 < Steffanx> Where is that tectu guy when you need him?
2020-10-27T14:58:19 < Steffanx> Wondering if driving a 720x720px display is a good idea with some stm32F7/H7. He must know that.
2020-10-27T15:04:58 < zyp> what sort of display interface, what are you gonna display on it and how fast will it be changing?
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2020-10-27T15:17:51 < bitmask> what guage wire for single pulse 500A
2020-10-27T15:18:42 < Steffanx> zyp: Probably mipi-dsi, cannot say exactly what, it just some meterish device. So probably just a something that looks like a old school VU meter and/or analog dial.
2020-10-27T15:19:31 < Steffanx> but it seems the display interface isnt the limiting factor, mainly the SDRAM interface.
2020-10-27T15:19:46 < Thorn> Steffanx open sauce project for you https://github.com/ADElectronics/Open-Hardware/tree/master/HMI/10.x-hmi-display
2020-10-27T15:20:46 < englishman> Steffanx: why not get a custom needle lcd
2020-10-27T15:21:07 < Steffanx> because the layout will change on the fly.
2020-10-27T15:21:26 < englishman> why not make it a smartphone app with bluetooth
2020-10-27T15:21:31 < englishman> and blockchain
2020-10-27T15:21:49 < Steffanx> oh yeah, why did i forget about this?
2020-10-27T15:21:58 < Steffanx> Can i do CAN in the cloud?
2020-10-27T15:22:31 < englishman> now you're getting somewhere
2020-10-27T15:23:35 < karlp> i've got a kids motor, directly attached to some batteries, resistance across the motor is ~8ohsm, if I want to slow it down, can I just stick another 8ohm in series there or does it behave differently when it's running?
2020-10-27T15:23:41 < Steffanx> i want demos Thorn. Proof of the concept.
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2020-10-27T15:24:38 < Steffanx> and thanks for the help englishman. Have more ideas?
2020-10-27T15:24:38 < jpa-> karlp: it behaves differently when running; a DC motor equivalent circuit is voltage source in series with the resistance
2020-10-27T15:24:49 < englishman> always happy to help
2020-10-27T15:25:19 < jpa-> karlp: in your case the resistance is 8 ohm and the voltage will depend on speed; the speed rises until the voltage over the internal resistance is low enough that the current is no longer enough to accelerate
2020-10-27T15:26:00 < jpa-> you can control speed by lowering the supply voltage, which will happen with a series resistor; but it'd be better to measure the actual current when running at your target load and decide the resistance based on that
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2020-10-27T15:27:56 < karlp> is half voltage going to be half speed end of the day though?
2020-10-27T15:28:26 < jpa-> half back-emf voltage will be half the speed
2020-10-27T15:29:00 < jpa-> so if you are now running at 10V 0.5A, you're dropping 0.5 * 8 = 4 V over the resistance and have 6 V back-emf voltage
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2020-10-27T15:29:25 < jpa-> then if you want half the speed, you want 3 V back-emf, so should have 4 + 3 = 7V supply voltage
2020-10-27T15:29:36 < karlp> 90mA when running...
2020-10-27T15:29:52 < karlp> ~3V. ok.
2020-10-27T15:30:54 < jpa-> also current is linearly related to torque
2020-10-27T15:31:42 < karlp> so, 90e-3A * 9ohms is the motor voltage, .81V, so 3-.81 is back emf?
2020-10-27T15:32:09 < karlp> 2.19V, and I want to half that?
2020-10-27T15:33:01 < karlp> set I to the same, ask for half voltage? 1.1 = 90e-3 * "new resistor" ?
2020-10-27T15:33:44 < karlp> ~10ohms again anyway.
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2020-10-27T15:38:02 < jpa-> the resistance should stay same anyway
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2020-10-27T15:38:27 < jpa-> and yeah, 1.1V + 90mA * 8ohm = 1.82 V
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2020-10-27T15:41:43 < karlp> ok, so... existing is 3V, consumes 90mA, coil resistance is 8ohms, back emf is 2.28V, or is back emf the 720mV?
2020-10-27T15:48:02 < karlp>                                                                                                                                                       
2020-10-27T15:52:42 < Streaker> 2.28V
2020-10-27T15:54:17 < jpa-> yeah, 720mV is lost in the wire resistance
2020-10-27T15:54:58 < karlp> 0and to half the speed, I want to half that right, so 1.14/90mA, gives 12ohms.  10ohms didn't really feel like half speed, but... not exactly measuring speeds here. 
2020-10-27T15:55:56 < Streaker> 12 ohms doesn't sound right. but then I didn't understand the business about reducing back emf to half.
2020-10-27T15:56:13 < karlp> through hole resistor keit from ~years ago finally coming in handy
2020-10-27T15:56:43 < karlp> I halfed back emf, kept current the same, figured out resisance form tht?
2020-10-27T15:56:55 < Streaker> how can the current remain the same?
2020-10-27T15:57:05 < jpa-> i get (3V - 1.82V) / 90mA = 13 ohm series resistor
2020-10-27T15:57:57 < karlp> 1.82 came from?
2020-10-27T15:58:02 < jpa-> current may decrease a bit, but not by much - after all the bearing friction remains roughly the same independent of speed, but air resistance in the motor will change and fluid resistance in lubricated bearings
2020-10-27T15:58:39 < jpa-> karlp: from 1.1V target backemf + the 90mA * 8ohm that is lost in resistance
2020-10-27T15:59:07 < jpa-> (lost in motor internal resistance)
2020-10-27T16:00:47 < jpa-> so you have in series backemf, internal resistance, external series resistor; backemf = 1.1V, internal = 90mA * 8ohm, external = 90mA * 13ohm, sum = 3V = supply voltage
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2020-10-27T16:04:33 < karlp> and backemf is then the "voltage source" you wer etalking about
2020-10-27T16:05:24 < jpa-> yeah, it's the voltage induced in the motor coils by the magnetic field movement; it stops the current from increasing and limits the motor speed
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2020-10-27T16:09:53 < karlp> so, I went with 27 in the end, which implies that back emf is now negative, so presumably current drawn has gone down as well, it can't go any further than 0
2020-10-27T16:10:18 < karlp> backemf = supplyV - (Rmotor+Rext)*Idrawn
2020-10-27T16:10:29 < karlp> fuckin motors, how do they work.
2020-10-27T16:10:41 < jpa-> so, measure current draw now :)
2020-10-27T16:10:59 < karlp> nah, it's screwed up again and put back in it' sbox.
2020-10-27T16:11:05 < jpa-> :D
2020-10-27T16:11:10 < karlp> and the battery case needed screws too, so bleh
2020-10-27T16:11:25 < karlp> spinny fishy mouthy thing now much more rational for 2yo
2020-10-27T16:12:02 < jpa-> :)
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2020-10-27T17:03:21 < jpa-> huh, gimp's extended bit depth (16-bit, plus float) support seems to be working well and isn't even slow
2020-10-27T17:03:28 < jpa-> i'm not sure how long this has been the case
2020-10-27T17:25:24 < GenTooMan> how long have you used gimp?
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2020-10-27T18:02:24 < Steffanx> 1 minute
2020-10-27T18:20:40 < jpa-> GenTooMan: ~20 years
2020-10-27T18:21:00 < Steffanx> I must say the UI improved a lot (imho)
2020-10-27T18:21:09 < Steffanx> I dont know when this happened though
2020-10-27T18:28:00 < Steffanx> Did you teach junior to use the Gimp yet, jpa- ?
2020-10-27T18:34:11 < jpa-> nope, he's just playing tim.exe
2020-10-27T18:43:34 < Steffanx> Aah best game eve4
2020-10-27T18:47:10 < karlp> is that the incredible machine?
2020-10-27T18:48:59 < karlp> bleh, cna't signup for st webinar in either chrome or firefox sa the js is busted.
2020-10-27T18:52:27 < Steffanx> Whats it about?
2020-10-27T18:52:34 < karlp> btle 5.2 
2020-10-27T18:52:37 < karlp> nothing exciting
2020-10-27T18:53:27 -!- oofus [~quassel@88.97.72.251] has joined ##stm32
2020-10-27T18:53:45 < GenTooMan> jpa- hmm just curious I can't remember ever having ever used the extended bit depth or noticing LOL
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2020-10-27T19:05:14 < jpa-> GenTooMan: apparently it was added in 2018 or so
2020-10-27T19:05:42 < jpa-> karlp: yeah, it is
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2020-10-27T19:55:46 < Steffanx> but .exe... jpa-? Are you using WINE?
2020-10-27T19:56:41 < Steffanx> Or does it run on your ipad
2020-10-27T20:03:57 < englishman> tim.exe is a great game
2020-10-27T20:04:03 < englishman> also gizmos and gadgets
2020-10-27T20:04:24 < englishman> young me bought broderbund stock for that game
2020-10-27T20:05:04 -!- c10ud^ [~c10ud@emesene/dictator/c10ud] has joined ##stm32
2020-10-27T20:06:06 < Steffanx> explains why you are such moneyed westener englishman
2020-10-27T20:06:34 < jpa-> Steffanx: dosbox
2020-10-27T20:07:19 < englishman> yes that Kevin O'Leary fool scammed the shit out of Mattel but it meant a good exit for broderbund stockholders
2020-10-27T20:58:02 < kakinop> hello chats
2020-10-27T21:04:35 < Steffanx> le of la, kakinop?
2020-10-27T21:05:47 < kakinop> le
2020-10-27T21:12:55 -!- Streaker [~Streaker@unaffiliated/streaker] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer]
2020-10-27T21:28:02 < Steffanx> Excellent
2020-10-27T21:33:14 < antto> how many cpu cycles does a kakinop waste?
2020-10-27T21:36:22 < kakinop> I just wasted 2 hours
2020-10-27T21:36:37 < kakinop> I don't recall it producing anything
2020-10-27T21:37:05 < kakinop> so all of them
2020-10-27T21:38:09 -!- kakinop is now known as kakiscope
2020-10-27T21:40:03 < mawk> gsm
2020-10-27T21:40:06 < mawk> 2A
2020-10-27T21:40:08 < mawk> why
2020-10-27T21:41:22 < qyx> yes, 2A, it even
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2020-10-27T21:41:33 < qyx> does
2020-10-27T21:43:51 < Steffanx> 2.5A mawk
2020-10-27T21:45:43 < bitmask> woot
2020-10-27T21:45:44 < bitmask> https://imgur.com/a/7eWUh3m
2020-10-27T21:45:48 < bitmask> new extruder mounted
2020-10-27T21:47:31 < Steffanx> moneyed westener 
2020-10-27T21:48:15 < bitmask> it was cheap
2020-10-27T21:48:16 < jadew> looks fancy
2020-10-27T21:48:28 < bitmask> china clone
2020-10-27T21:48:39 < jadew> any ideas on what kind of tool I need in order to make this cut (into wood/soft materials)?
2020-10-27T21:48:43 < bitmask> $36
2020-10-27T21:49:50 < Steffanx> "this cut" ?
2020-10-27T21:50:05 < jadew> I want to remove material from the top, to end up with that L shape
2020-10-27T21:50:28 < jadew> don't know what the operation is called
2020-10-27T21:50:55 < kakiscope> Steffanx: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mREi_Bb85Sk repost music from last nigth
2020-10-27T21:50:56 < Steffanx> You posted somet image jadew?
2020-10-27T21:51:02 < jadew> oh, I didn't
2020-10-27T21:51:05 < jadew> lol
2020-10-27T21:51:11 < jadew> this one: https://i.imgur.com/friFnmK.png
2020-10-27T21:51:42 < bitmask> i was gonna say a router but thats too big
2020-10-27T21:52:05 < jadew> I'm hoping for some kind of hand tool
2020-10-27T21:53:21 < zyp> jadew, what are the dimensions involved?
2020-10-27T21:53:36 < jadew> ~1.5 cm wide
2020-10-27T21:53:40 < zyp> looks like a job for either a router or two cuts with a saw
2020-10-27T21:54:10 < jadew> guess I'll have to ask my dad for help then
2020-10-27T21:54:40 < PaulFertser> How soft is soft and how precise do you need it? Sounds like a steady hand and a hobby knife might do if that wood is really soft.
2020-10-27T21:55:24 < jadew> has to be pretty much flat
2020-10-27T21:56:10 < zyp> I'd be worried about it splitting apart in the corner one way or the other if you tried using hand tools to split it
2020-10-27T21:56:21 < bitmask> damn, i hate cutting screws, but i only have 25 and 30mm and I need like 28
2020-10-27T21:56:35 < zyp> get a grinder, grind it down 2mm
2020-10-27T21:56:44 < bitmask> yea i was gonna use my dremel
2020-10-27T21:57:48 < zyp> I bought a cheap benchtop grinder a few weeks ago, was gonna use it to sharpen drill bits
2020-10-27T21:58:11 < zyp> still haven't opened the box
2020-10-27T21:59:57 < jadew> I think I'll get some mill bits and use my bench press
2020-10-27T22:00:04 < jadew> as a milling machine
2020-10-27T22:00:50 < zyp> that could work
2020-10-27T22:13:13 < jadew> found a simpler solution
2020-10-27T22:13:29 < jadew> I'll post pictures in a couple of minutes, when it's done
2020-10-27T22:17:02 < aandrew> that's a fancy extruder, bitmask 
2020-10-27T22:20:00 < Steffanx> thanks but no thanks, kakiscope
2020-10-27T22:25:05 < bitmask> its a clone of an e3d hemera combined with a bondtech bmg
2020-10-27T22:25:30 < bitmask> it grips the filament on both sides so it should be more consistent
2020-10-27T22:26:22 < bitmask> well not just grips, its driven by both sides, all extruders grip both sides :)
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2020-10-27T22:26:28 < aandrew> interesting
2020-10-27T22:26:34 < aandrew> I still have stock e3d bowden head
2020-10-27T22:27:04 < aandrew> I have to tune retraction, I noticed inconsistent results that line up pretty decently with over-retraction
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2020-10-27T22:27:21 < bitmask> im upgrading from an e3d titan aero, ive had a lot of problems with it (including inconsistent extrusion) so hopefully this is a good upgrade even though its 1/3rd the price
2020-10-27T22:27:26 < Steffanx> The joys of tuning 3d printers
2020-10-27T22:28:40 < bitmask> fuck
2020-10-27T22:28:52 < bitmask> i cant believe i messed this up...
2020-10-27T22:29:06 < bitmask> my fan mounts are at different heights... 
2020-10-27T22:29:34 < bitmask> so one fan duct is good while the other is below the nozzle
2020-10-27T22:29:51 < bitmask> how did I change the heights
2020-10-27T22:32:21 < bitmask> oh haha nvm
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2020-10-27T22:32:53 < Steffanx> Your welcome bitmask
2020-10-27T22:33:09 < bitmask> :P
2020-10-27T22:33:16 < bitmask> saved by steffan
2020-10-27T22:35:34 < bitmask> alright now I just gotta fix my Y axis alignment and I can be done
2020-10-27T22:35:40 < bitmask> aside from re-leveling the bed and stuff
2020-10-27T22:36:11 < bitmask> does it matter if you use a 16T pulley and a 20T idler?
2020-10-27T22:46:15 < jadew> got rid of the L entirely: http://188.26.146.32/stuff/20201027_223959_.jpg
2020-10-27T22:47:08 < jadew> unfortunately, I have to do it all over again, because I used superglue for the magnets and that shit's toxic when heated up
2020-10-27T22:55:44 < Steffanx> Why heat it up?
2020-10-27T22:56:28 < jadew> I'm gonna hold stuff at the melting point of solder with those jaws
2020-10-27T22:56:36 < jadew> and I'll keep pumping heat into said stuff
2020-10-27T22:57:35 < Steffanx> heat and magnets?
2020-10-27T22:58:05 < jadew> they'll lose their magnetism?
--- Log closed Tue Oct 27 22:58:40 2020
--- Log opened Tue Oct 27 22:58:49 2020
2020-10-27T22:58:49 -!- jpa- [jpa@hilla.kapsi.fi] has joined ##stm32
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2020-10-27T22:59:12 < jadew> I'll try that out now
2020-10-27T22:59:59 -!- Irssi: Join to ##stm32 was synced in 77 secs
2020-10-27T23:00:11 < Steffanx> lol, im not sure if that is the right one lol
2020-10-27T23:02:19 < Steffanx> It highly depends on the material of the magnet
2020-10-27T23:02:59 < Steffanx> and "her" temperature, not "here"  -_-
2020-10-27T23:03:19 < jadew> yep, brought it to 300 °C and it fell off
2020-10-27T23:03:40 < jadew> let's see if it starts working again
2020-10-27T23:04:08 < jadew> it's dead
2020-10-27T23:06:45 < Steffanx> Maybe it will wake up at night and kill you in your sleep. You never know.
2020-10-27T23:10:42 < kakiscope> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UdfY25gDjK8
2020-10-27T23:18:02 < mawk> they're shutting down GPRS in NL Steffanx ??
2020-10-27T23:19:16 < effractur> yes
2020-10-27T23:19:26 < mawk> why
2020-10-27T23:19:36 < mawk> they are also shutting down natural gas
2020-10-27T23:19:39 < mawk> nonsense
2020-10-27T23:19:43 < mawk> green terrorists are in power
2020-10-27T23:20:54 < effractur> well they disable 2G
2020-10-27T23:20:57 < effractur> and 3G
2020-10-27T23:21:02 < effractur> GSM should still work
2020-10-27T23:21:38 < mawk> they disable GPRS then?
2020-10-27T23:21:45 < mawk> but GSM calls and sms still work
2020-10-27T23:22:34 < effractur> yes
2020-10-27T23:22:56 < effractur> but some providers don't even have a GSM network
2020-10-27T23:22:58 < effractur> only 4G
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2020-10-27T23:26:24 < Steffanx> mawk, the shutting down of the natural gas is not due to "greeeen" .
2020-10-27T23:26:45 < Steffanx> its because we have serious issues due to "them"  getting it out of the ground here.
2020-10-27T23:27:43 -!- steve_ [~steve@ool-18b99d28.dyn.optonline.net] has joined ##stm32
2020-10-27T23:29:47 < kakiscope> I learned a new word
2020-10-27T23:29:55 < kakiscope> gayborhood
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2020-10-27T23:31:01 < Steffanx> thanks kakiscope
2020-10-27T23:31:50 < kakiscope> no problem
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2020-10-27T23:32:23 < qyx> Steffanx: what issues?
2020-10-27T23:32:32 < qyx> ground collapses or what?
2020-10-27T23:32:50 < Steffanx> Yes, and ofcourse the damage to houses due to that
2020-10-27T23:33:08 < Steffanx> and tiny earthquakes
2020-10-27T23:33:09 < qyx> interesting
2020-10-27T23:33:30 < kakiscope> you do fracking?
2020-10-27T23:33:31 < Steffanx> They have been denying the issue for a loooong time, but now they no really can
2020-10-27T23:33:41 < Steffanx> do that anymore.
2020-10-27T23:35:01 < kakiscope> Steff is EnRaged!
2020-10-27T23:35:56 < kakiscope> is there gas in the ground there?
2020-10-27T23:37:15 < kakiscope> netherlands doesn't sound like promising gas/oil drilling area to me :/
2020-10-27T23:40:05 < Steffanx> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Groningen_gas_field
2020-10-27T23:44:11 < karlp> 2g/3g sunset is awesome.  
2020-10-27T23:45:01 < karlp> North America: shutdoen 2g, keeping 3g for now.
2020-10-27T23:45:09 < karlp> elsewhere: shutdown 3g, keeping 2g for now.
2020-10-27T23:45:43 < karlp> only option for global hardware going forward? 4g!
2020-10-27T23:47:04 < kakiscope> sounds good
2020-10-27T23:50:47 < GenTooMan> fracking has become a major issue where it's been used. Unfortunately it's not paranoia but just really bad behaviour by those using it, and everyone else suffering the consequences.
2020-10-27T23:50:54  * karlp grumps about metatables and serialization in lua
2020-10-27T23:51:41 < GenTooMan> karlp lua... on a STM32?
2020-10-27T23:52:04 < karlp> plenty of people have, but in this case, no, the lua scripts are talking to the stm32s.
2020-10-27T23:55:59 < zyp> karlp, or hardware that can do either
2020-10-27T23:56:54 < karlp> sure, that too, 
2020-10-27T23:57:14 < karlp> if you're ok with accepting 2g shit as lowest common denominator of functionality
2020-10-27T23:57:20 < kakiscope> GenTooMan: concideration costs profits
2020-10-27T23:57:21 < zyp> also, what are you doing that 2G would be suitable for?
2020-10-27T23:57:29 < karlp> precisely :)
2020-10-27T23:58:18 < karlp> anywya. I'm looking at lua work shit at 10pm
2020-10-27T23:58:20 < karlp> fucking batshit
2020-10-27T23:58:39 < zyp> I mean, I guess you could do shit like a home alarm that sends you an SMS or calls you up to tell you about an intruder, but apart from that I figure LTE-M or LTE-NB1 would be more suitable
2020-10-27T23:58:45 < karlp> opened the fucking box of "let'ðs just clean this shit up while we do it"
2020-10-27T23:58:51 < qyx> so how do I get G0 out of bootloader?
2020-10-27T23:58:57 < karlp> lte-m is barely reasonably bandwidth
2020-10-27T23:59:07 < karlp> nb-iot is in teh wortheless level IMO :)
2020-10-27T23:59:12 < zyp> (I installed one of those alarm systems >10 years ago, shit's pretty awful)
2020-10-27T23:59:25 < zyp> perhaps
2020-10-27T23:59:28 < qyx> nb-iot with its 250KB monthly plans for DT
2020-10-27T23:59:35 < zyp> haha
2020-10-27T23:59:48 < karlp> yeah, it's like, "2g shit, but we're going to call it new and fancy"
--- Day changed Wed Oct 28 2020
2020-10-28T00:00:08 < zyp> isn't it a lot more bandwidth efficient?
2020-10-28T00:00:17 < karlp> compared to?
2020-10-28T00:00:20 < zyp> 2g
2020-10-28T00:00:34 < qyx> fuk this thing, it happens all the time, I power up a new stm32, it detects there is no valid firmware, enters bootloader
2020-10-28T00:00:34 < karlp> oh sure, if you want to do 2g data sort of shit, then sure, nb-iot is a no brainer.
2020-10-28T00:00:39 < qyx> I flash it, make reset from openocd
2020-10-28T00:00:45 < qyx> and it goes to the bootloader again
2020-10-28T00:00:51 < karlp> if 2g was expensive and slow, then nb-iot is garbage irrelevant
2020-10-28T00:00:52 < qyx> until i remove the power
2020-10-28T00:01:01  * karlp shrugs
2020-10-28T00:01:20 < karlp> I want actual lte, so I can cut out site IT infrastructure.
2020-10-28T00:01:34 < zyp> :)
2020-10-28T00:01:57 < steve_> qyx I have a G0 nucleo that never went into bootloader, I've never had any STM32 part go into bootloader, never used ST bootloader.  been curious about it... how did you get stuck?
2020-10-28T00:01:58 < karlp> but, right now. problems are just how to do data structures to have nice apis, but still serializable state data without copying and manglign data.
2020-10-28T00:02:13 < karlp> steve_: itð's easy enough if you leave boot pins floating...
2020-10-28T00:02:27 < zyp> protobuf?
2020-10-28T00:02:32 < zyp> or what?
2020-10-28T00:02:39 < karlp> nah, lua to json
2020-10-28T00:02:42 < karlp> it's ok.
2020-10-28T00:02:47 < zyp> sure
2020-10-28T00:02:56 < karlp> I'll look at it again tomorrow,
2020-10-28T00:03:05 < qyx> karlp: G0 has swdio/boot0 on the same pin
2020-10-28T00:03:19 < qyx> *swclk
2020-10-28T00:03:37 < zyp> I figure for any sort of data exchange where different systems have to talk together, I'd go with json or protobuf these days
2020-10-28T00:03:40 < karlp> just had nice little container blobs that had library functions on the object, and so I can't serialize the object directly, need to partition things around.
2020-10-28T00:04:23 < karlp> yeah, problem is the libraries I have readily available, without work, aren't serializing the "non-serializable" as a string, they're just abrotinng
2020-10-28T00:04:28 < qyx> steve_: did you try any newer families?
2020-10-28T00:05:16 < steve_> families meaning eg. F4,F7,F0,F1,L0,G0?  just those
2020-10-28T00:07:09 < karlp> https://paste.jvnv.net/view/5iiWx
2020-10-28T00:07:09 < steve_> the ST bootloader is in fact so unfamiliar to me that I bombed an interview question about it.  So I'm curious how you're getting stuck in it.
2020-10-28T00:07:10 < karlp> anyway..
2020-10-28T00:07:23 < karlp> qyx: g0 is pretty new :)
2020-10-28T00:07:37 < karlp> what on earth were yu interviewing for that they asked abotu the st bootloader,
2020-10-28T00:07:37 < zyp> qyx, did you fuck up boot0? :)
2020-10-28T00:07:50 < qyx> zyp: theres none
2020-10-28T00:07:52 < zyp> karlp, haha, was thinking the same
2020-10-28T00:07:54 < karlp> and how did "failing" that question have any negative impact?
2020-10-28T00:08:12 < zyp> qyx, isn't it combined with a regular pin, enabled by option bytes?
2020-10-28T00:08:22 < qyx> it is, with swclk
2020-10-28T00:08:31 < zyp> are you sure you disabled it?
2020-10-28T00:08:38 < zyp> and didn't force it high
2020-10-28T00:08:54 < qyx> I did nothing, I just hotaired the damn thing
2020-10-28T00:09:01 < qyx> I flashed the firmware just ok
2020-10-28T00:09:16 < qyx> and it still "hangs" in 0x1f...
2020-10-28T00:09:18 < zyp> did you check what the default setting for boot0 is?
2020-10-28T00:09:27 < qyx> nope, reading RM right now
2020-10-28T00:09:30 < qyx> using G0 for the first time
2020-10-28T00:10:15 < steve_> karlp couple of old geezers who were so righteous about their mad skills.  But a simple one off question, did I know anything about ST BL, since I mentioned bootloaders in resume.
2020-10-28T00:11:12 < zyp> hmm, looks like it defaults to boot from main flash
2020-10-28T00:11:36 < zyp> i.e. nBOOT_SEL=1 and nBOOT0=1 means forced BOOT0=0
2020-10-28T00:12:37 < qyx> yes but #$%&#&%#
2020-10-28T00:13:00 < qyx> I closed the damn RM 
2020-10-28T00:13:21 < zyp> RM0444 rev2 page 61 mentions the empty check
2020-10-28T00:13:27 < zyp> If the device is programmed for a first time but the Option bytes are not reloaded, the device will still select System memory as a boot area after a System reset.
2020-10-28T00:13:40 < zyp> try powercycling the chip?
2020-10-28T00:13:54 < qyx> steve_: all devices are going to BL even if configured for flash
2020-10-28T00:14:06 < qyx> at least the new ones, idk when was that shit implemented
2020-10-28T00:14:08 < zyp> not older ones
2020-10-28T00:14:12 < qyx> ref https://i.imgur.com/iGFz9lC.png
2020-10-28T00:14:28 < qyx> it also explains the observed behaviour
2020-10-28T00:14:31 < zyp> yeah
2020-10-28T00:14:39 < zyp> just flash then powercycle
2020-10-28T00:14:46 < zyp> that should take care of it if nothing else
2020-10-28T00:15:00 < qyx> and thats the problem
2020-10-28T00:15:07 < qyx> I need to discharge a supercap :>
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2020-10-28T00:15:34 < zyp> in that case you can add a write of the OBL_LAUNCH bit after flashing
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2020-10-28T00:16:10 < qyx> hm yeah
2020-10-28T00:16:14 < steve_> qyx what doc is that?
2020-10-28T00:16:19 < zyp> RM0444
2020-10-28T00:18:01 < steve_> hmm.  maybe that's a G0 thing, there is no mention of that in the F4 manual, RM0090
2020-10-28T00:18:39 < zyp> F4 is way older :)
2020-10-28T00:19:00 < steve_> but  I have used the nucleo G0 and did  not notice your issue
2020-10-28T00:19:03 < qyx> I would say F3, L0, L4 all behaves like this
2020-10-28T00:19:16 < qyx> because you powercycled it after flashing
2020-10-28T00:19:20 < qyx> after first flashing
2020-10-28T00:19:35 < zyp> nucleo G0 comes flashed with a demo application, so as long as you never powercycle it between erasing and writing new firmware, you won't ever be in the same condition as a fresh chip
2020-10-28T00:19:48 < qyx> that too
2020-10-28T00:20:10 < zyp> I don't think any of the chips I've used got a blank check, and the newest I've used is L0
2020-10-28T00:20:31 < zyp> so I'm guessing it was either introduced in L4 or later
2020-10-28T00:20:38 < qyx> > mww 0x40022000 00040602
2020-10-28T00:20:43 < steve_> ok thanks.  so you can't power cycle due to supercapacitor?
2020-10-28T00:21:03 < zyp> probably can, just inconvenient to have to discharge it :)
2020-10-28T00:21:23 < steve_> why not just take a jumper and short the bypass caps right by the MCU?
2020-10-28T00:21:54 < zyp> maybe not healty for the supercap
2020-10-28T00:22:07 < qyx> maybe not healty for me
2020-10-28T00:22:13 < zyp> if it got enough charge to damage itself
2020-10-28T00:22:21 < steve_> supercap is on the VDD rail?
2020-10-28T00:22:47 < qyx> theres a smps inbetween, checking if I can short the output
2020-10-28T00:23:29 < steve_> i've never seen a power supply go bad after a momentary short but my experience is limited haha
2020-10-28T00:25:29 < zyp> qyx, just short the upper feedback resistor :)
2020-10-28T00:25:29 < Cracki> I was wondering, how _are_ lab supplies supposed to react to voltage being fed into their outputs, say from an inductive load (braking motor)? mine shows the voltage and current but otherwise doesn't blink an eye
2020-10-28T00:26:03 < qyx> ok it has a current limit
2020-10-28T00:26:05 < Cracki> the load could exceed the supply's voltage limit
2020-10-28T00:26:05 < qyx> zyp: haha
2020-10-28T00:26:24 < qyx> https://i.imgur.com/10NwNhx.png
2020-10-28T00:26:35 < qyx> TPS62740
2020-10-28T00:26:42 < zyp> Cracki, I think you get multi-quadrant supplies if you want one that can act as a load and sink power
2020-10-28T00:27:16 < steve_> now I __have__ seen power supplies go bad due to inductive spikes
2020-10-28T00:27:22 < Cracki> my best guess is it'll either sink that excess current (i.e. operate in reverse) or buffer it in some cap that better be large enough to catch the spike within operating limits and then feed that back out
2020-10-28T00:27:51 < Cracki> ok so "bad idea, fix design", thx zyp :P
2020-10-28T00:28:01 < zyp> if it's a dumb switching supply, you're probably just feeding into the output buffer cap of a buck regulator
2020-10-28T00:28:35 < Cracki> I'm always worried when boss makes me brake the motor that abruptly. the supply doesn't show peak voltage I assume, just some momentary measurement
2020-10-28T00:28:41 < zyp> in which case the regulator would stop filling the cap but won't start draining it by itself
2020-10-28T00:28:54 < Cracki> and that supply doesn't look like anything fancy that has "four quadrant control"
2020-10-28T00:29:35 < Cracki> ic, so it could/would blow the cap at least
2020-10-28T00:30:33 < steve_> there's also the voltage sense feedback I think?  could easily exceed limits of some IC
2020-10-28T00:30:42 < zyp> if it's reasonably designed it'd have TVSes or something on the output
2020-10-28T00:30:48 < qyx> works
2020-10-28T00:30:58 < qyx> thank you, rubber ducks
2020-10-28T00:31:01 < Cracki> the dozen times i've mentioned my concern to him he has never acted like that's properly addressed by the design, but that he banks on the supply "handling" it (which is a simple fixed voltage supply in production)
2020-10-28T00:31:06 < zyp> qyx, what worked?
2020-10-28T00:31:16 < Cracki> rubber duck noises
2020-10-28T00:31:21 < qyx> shorting the bypass cap
2020-10-28T00:31:32 < zyp> ah
2020-10-28T00:31:50 < qyx> I attempted to clear the EMPTY bit but forgot 0x before the value
2020-10-28T00:31:54 < qyx> it made the mcu go @#$
2020-10-28T00:32:22 < steve_> Cracki I had a boss that didn't blink an eye when employees almost died on multiple occasions due to safety negligence... be careful
2020-10-28T00:32:40 < Cracki> don't worry I'm young and indestructible
2020-10-28T00:32:44 < Cracki> also expendable
2020-10-28T00:33:16 < steve_> heh, in the US it's about $200k/head so hopefully your  equipment doesn't cost that much
2020-10-28T00:33:52 < Cracki> for life insurance, or for criminal negligence and violations of OSHA
2020-10-28T00:34:27 < steve_> not sure, I was just told that number by people.  Also my boss literally told me the equipemnt is worth more than my life.
2020-10-28T00:35:03 < Cracki> yeah right
2020-10-28T00:35:54 < Cracki> how to value a life: by the money required to snuff you (paid killer), or by your net lifetime contributions to society, ...
2020-10-28T00:37:01 < Cracki> I realize that some stuff is crazy expensive, that's some psycho boss. your life should be the fines and prison time he'd go in for failing to do his job
2020-10-28T00:37:34 < steve_> that's not how a corporation does the assessment : \  ask Ford or Boeing how much a life is worth.  anyway I don't know what I'm talking about
2020-10-28T00:37:52 < Cracki> ah, how much they'd lose in a settlement
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2020-10-28T00:38:49 < karlp> they'ðre also called "SMU" instead of "lab/bench supply" if they're full quadrant shits
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2020-10-28T01:09:07 < jadew> when's the voting over for muricans?
2020-10-28T01:09:25 < Cracki> SOON
2020-10-28T01:09:35 < jadew> can't wait
2020-10-28T01:09:39 < Cracki> early november
2020-10-28T01:09:45 < Cracki> ah 3. november
2020-10-28T01:09:52 < Cracki> unless they allow late voting for the next four years
2020-10-28T01:10:03 < qyx> thats after our nation-wide covid screening
2020-10-28T01:10:13 < Cracki> nationwide?
2020-10-28T01:10:19 < Cracki> like a sample or _everyone_?
2020-10-28T01:10:25 < qyx> everyone
2020-10-28T01:10:29 < Cracki> o.o
2020-10-28T01:10:37 < zyp> nice
2020-10-28T01:10:40 < Cracki> we don't even have the testing capacity for that
2020-10-28T01:10:49 < qyx> thats Ag screening only
2020-10-28T01:11:06 < Cracki> our capacity is about a million and a half per week. that'd take a whole year to work through the population
2020-10-28T01:11:11 < Cracki> ah
2020-10-28T01:11:12 < qyx> they made 130K of tests during the last weekend
2020-10-28T01:11:15 < Cracki> does that work without much lab?
2020-10-28T01:11:28 < qyx> which is quite good for 5.5mil population
2020-10-28T01:11:32 < Cracki> Ag is anti-body^Wg-something?
2020-10-28T01:11:34 < qyx> yeah
2020-10-28T01:11:38 < zyp> antigene?
2020-10-28T01:11:49 < qyx> yes
2020-10-28T01:11:49 < Cracki> plausible
2020-10-28T01:12:00 < qyx> we are using some south korea made tests
2020-10-28T01:12:01 < Cracki> 5.5 mil pop is a handy size
2020-10-28T01:12:15 < Cracki> I'd love to get anti{body,gene} tested too
2020-10-28T01:12:15 < zyp> and yeah, I think you just put a drop of blood on a test paper and check for a line or something
2020-10-28T01:12:28 < zyp> same
2020-10-28T01:12:34 < qyx> those are not from blood samples
2020-10-28T01:12:39 < zyp> no?
2020-10-28T01:12:41 < zyp> spit?
2020-10-28T01:12:55 < qyx> no, same as pcr basically
2020-10-28T01:13:03 < qyx> I mean
2020-10-28T01:13:10 < Cracki> i.e. piece of the brain extracted through the nose
2020-10-28T01:13:12 < qyx> for the patient
2020-10-28T01:13:16 < qyx> yeah
2020-10-28T01:13:16 < zyp> right
2020-10-28T01:13:33 < zyp> it'd be interesting to know if I've got antibodies
2020-10-28T01:13:34 < qyx> and 5G chip inserted
2020-10-28T01:13:50 < zyp> wouldn't be terribly surprised if I did
2020-10-28T01:14:27 < qyx> there are people believing they are inserting 5G chips to control you into your nose
2020-10-28T01:14:29 < Cracki> our ministry of whatever says "antigen test for _direct_ proof of pathogen", that can't be right can it
2020-10-28T01:15:00 < Cracki> the virus doesn't have antigens, an antigen test can't test that "directly". checking for presence of immune reaction is indirect
2020-10-28T01:16:23 < zyp> I remember I had a flu somewhere around jan/feb this year, before we officially had covid here, but there's been talk about there having been cases before the first official positive
2020-10-28T01:16:31 < Cracki> fuckers, as of october 1 they (germany) don't intend to use antigen/antibody tests
2020-10-28T01:16:45 < zyp> and then I've had light cold symptoms several times since
2020-10-28T01:17:06 < Cracki> oh yes I remember a discussion months ago. there was a paper of some lab detecting the shit from a sample taken in SEPTEMBER 2019
2020-10-28T01:17:18 < Cracki> or even august, can't remember specifically, but it was way before winter 2019
2020-10-28T01:17:25 < steve_> lol just got a ford ad on youtube
2020-10-28T01:17:52 < qyx> Cracki: its probably this https://keralty.com.ph/sites/default/files/2020-09/graph.png
2020-10-28T01:17:54 < Cracki> I've had some shit in february too. took months for my lungs to feel "up to spec" again, after a week of acute flu symptoms
2020-10-28T01:18:00 < Cracki> might have been the flu, or the wuflu
2020-10-28T01:18:07 < Cracki> ah!
2020-10-28T01:18:14 < Cracki> til
2020-10-28T01:18:23 < Cracki> (i'm sure we had that in 8th grade biology but meh :D)
2020-10-28T01:19:12 < qyx> manufacturer says they are accurate up to 96% for symptomatic cases
2020-10-28T01:19:15 < zyp> kid's just been through another round of cold symptoms :p
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2020-10-28T01:19:33 < qyx> but it is probably <70% for a random sample
2020-10-28T01:19:49 < qyx> incl false pos/neg
2020-10-28T01:19:51 < Cracki> which was it, false positive or false negative, that would be 100-96=4%?
2020-10-28T01:20:13 < Cracki> 4% would be false negative, yeah, for a symptomatic case
2020-10-28T01:20:15 < qyx> 4% of false negatives
2020-10-28T01:20:22 < Cracki> wonder what false positives are
2020-10-28T01:20:34 < Cracki> probably 1% or so, operator error and such
2020-10-28T01:21:06 < qyx> idk I didn't read all the things thoroughly
2020-10-28T01:21:44 < Cracki> some "doctor's waiting room journal" explained the probability math, and how you have to take into account population's assumed prevalence to go from "test is +/-" to "you have/have-not the shit probably X%"
2020-10-28T01:22:14 < zyp> yeah
2020-10-28T01:22:34 < Cracki> in our daily "CDC" reports they stress tha tnumber of positive tests (which they give) is NOT number of infected (which is presumably determined by multiple testing)
2020-10-28T01:23:33 < Cracki> atm ~0.5% of the pop have had it (450k/83M), and a lot fewer are currently having it (~50k? whatever past 1-2 weeks)
2020-10-28T01:24:03 < zyp> the bit about prevalence seems a bit nonintuitive at first until you think about it
2020-10-28T01:24:15 < Cracki> so the probability of having it, when a test says you have it, is somewhat further away from 99%. the article threw around numbers around 70%
2020-10-28T01:24:47 < Cracki> you won the lottery! what really I don't believe it! so few people ever win!
2020-10-28T01:25:04 < zyp> like, if the false positive rate is 4% and the prevalence is 1% and you're doing random testing, you'll get four false positives for every true positive
2020-10-28T01:25:20 < Cracki> you don't have a spleen! what really I don't believe it! almost everyone has a spleen!
2020-10-28T01:25:51 < Cracki> please doctor check again, you being wrong is more likely than me having no spleen or winning the lottery
2020-10-28T01:26:20 < Cracki> hold on, I'm not following yet
2020-10-28T01:26:57 < Cracki> eh, too late for me to imagine the probability table for this
2020-10-28T01:27:27 < Cracki> yeah false positives are some kind of noise floor if you have zero prevalence
2020-10-28T01:27:51 < zyp> if you have a population of 1000 and 10 of them are infected, you can expect to get 990*4% = ~40 false positives
2020-10-28T01:28:02 < zyp> yes
2020-10-28T01:28:12 < zyp> noise floor is a good way of putting it
2020-10-28T01:28:18 < Cracki> my sleepy brain sees your logic
2020-10-28T01:29:51 < Cracki> specificity and sensitivity, that was the other word I was thinking of
2020-10-28T01:30:06 < Cracki> their definitions make clear what the denominator is
2020-10-28T01:31:12 < ds2> it is all about number games
2020-10-28T01:31:42 < Cracki> https://www.researchgate.net/profile/Diana_Carvajal5/publication/49650721/figure/fig1/AS:277352501268483@1443137397711/Calculation-of-sensitivity-specificity-and-positive-and-negative-predictive.png
2020-10-28T01:32:27 < Cracki> cba to rederive that at this hour. they taught us that in the probability theory class AND in the epidemiology class
2020-10-28T01:33:57 < Cracki> btw, I dug up "expected life remaining" numbers. if you're 100+ yo here, you're expect to live _two_ more years, even if your cohort (year of birth 1920)'s LE was around 60
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2020-10-28T04:54:36 < Laurenceb> keeek my new neighbour is beating his wife again
2020-10-28T04:57:27 < Laurenceb> its ok she has escaped
2020-10-28T04:57:38 < Laurenceb> britbong lifestyle
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2020-10-28T09:45:05 < Cracki> rent must be cheap
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2020-10-28T13:17:27 < mawk> should I use flow control when I talk to a gsm module?
2020-10-28T13:29:43 < jpa-> if you want to transfer large amounts of data (more than ~60 bytes at a time), yes
2020-10-28T13:33:21 < mawk> a
2020-10-28T13:33:29 < mawk> my company didn't put the flow control pins on the board
2020-10-28T13:33:40 < mawk> I don't know why
2020-10-28T13:33:58 < mawk> I can try this XON/XOFF business but then I guess I have to use hex encoding
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2020-10-28T13:40:32 < mawk> I soldered a supercap directly on power pins
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2020-10-28T13:40:41 < mawk> now it's extremely ugly but at least it doesn't reboot anymore
2020-10-28T13:54:04 < GyrosGeier> the GSM module likely speaks PPP
2020-10-28T13:54:21 < GyrosGeier> it might support escape codes
2020-10-28T13:55:25 < GyrosGeier> the downside is that you have to process all incoming and outgoing data
2020-10-28T13:56:44 < jpa-> yeah, no need to go hex
2020-10-28T13:57:11 < jpa-> after all you might want to enable escape codes anyway if you don't have a separate DTR line to switch between command & data mode
2020-10-28T13:59:50 < GyrosGeier> the typical escape sequence for that is half a second of pause, "+++", half a second of pause
2020-10-28T14:00:06 < GyrosGeier> that is rather difficult to hit accidentally in PPP frames
2020-10-28T14:01:27 < jpa-> yeah, but that's also annoyingly slow; some modems support also faster 0x7D something escape codes i think, but then you need to escape them in all data
2020-10-28T14:04:44 < GyrosGeier> AFAIK that's a PPP extension
2020-10-28T14:06:05 < jpa-> maybe
2020-10-28T14:06:19 < jpa-> PPP is also somewhat annoyingly complex
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2020-10-28T14:15:11 < Thorn> still better than HDLC
2020-10-28T14:27:36 < karlp> I thought hdlc was meant to be way simpler than ppp?
2020-10-28T14:28:42 < jpa-> i have the same impression, though they also do different things
2020-10-28T14:28:48 < jpa-> IIRC the escape scheme is quite similar
2020-10-28T14:32:33 < zyp> only so many ways to skin a cat
2020-10-28T14:33:06 < zyp> if you are doing delimiter based framing of binary payloads then you necessarily have to escape the delimiters somehow
2020-10-28T14:41:55 < karlp> fucking been chasing my tail for an hour.  finally noticed that the callback sign was actually, func(value, key,...) not func(key, value, ....) like I'd been using it.
2020-10-28T14:42:00 < karlp> no wonder nothign made any sense...
2020-10-28T14:42:39 < Streaker> why was key not const?
2020-10-28T14:42:53 < karlp> who says it has to be? :)
2020-10-28T14:42:57 < karlp> also, not c/c++
2020-10-28T14:43:16 < Streaker> you change programming languages daily
2020-10-28T14:43:25 < karlp> not really, I use ~2 regualrly,
2020-10-28T14:43:30 < karlp> this is lua, same as yesterday
2020-10-28T14:43:56 < karlp> I really only use lua and C, sometimes python, sometimes js
2020-10-28T14:44:43 < Thorn> typescript is a thing
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2020-10-28T14:55:03 < PaulFertser> There's also GSM 0710 channel multiplexing ;)
2020-10-28T14:55:42 < PaulFertser> You can open several channels via a single serial line and use one to run PPP and another for AT commands.
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2020-10-28T15:07:27 < Laurenceb> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y981k2pSfY8
2020-10-28T15:07:31 < Laurenceb> typical britbong
2020-10-28T15:08:31 < Laurenceb> Hunter Biden 2020 tbh
2020-10-28T15:08:40 < Laurenceb> make america crack and hookers again
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2020-10-28T15:16:11 < mawk> 150bpm song, is slow right?
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2020-10-28T15:19:45 < mawk> I tried to blindtest myself, classify my tracks into speed levels
2020-10-28T15:20:10 < mawk> so 150bpm is slow, 200bpm is regular speed, 250npm starting to be fast
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2020-10-28T15:26:13 < Cracki> npm
2020-10-28T15:26:29 < Cracki> work-related injury
2020-10-28T15:27:12 < mawk> lol
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2020-10-28T15:33:58 < Steffanx> Dont die  mawk
2020-10-28T15:36:23 < mawk> why
2020-10-28T15:38:18 < Cracki> read it in a sinister voice
2020-10-28T15:38:43 < Steffanx> The awful music is deadly, mawk
2020-10-28T15:38:53 < mawk> lol
2020-10-28T15:38:56 < mawk> it's not awful
2020-10-28T15:42:40 < Steffanx> My ears dont agree
2020-10-28T15:47:01 < BrainDamage> PaulFertser: since you liked the brussel sprouts, here's another less conventional ( but sound ) recipe: fold an Al sheet into a small pan, add asparagus salt and a little of high smoke point oil, toss them to coat evenly, put in the oven with grill function at max, after 5 min turn them to roast the other side, 2-3 mins more and fold the sheet to cover the heads to prevent charring from excessive IR, 2-3 mins more and they are done, before
2020-10-28T15:47:01 < BrainDamage> or lemon juice, black pepper and most importantly, a pinch of freshly ground nutmeg
2020-10-28T15:48:12 < PaulFertser> BrainDamage: thank you!
2020-10-28T15:48:28 < BrainDamage> the reason why those oddly sounding combos work is because they are the same genetic family, so in reality despite not seeming related in taste they form the culinary equivalent of a musical chord
2020-10-28T15:48:57 < BrainDamage> because the flavour comes from related moleculas
2020-10-28T15:49:35 < BrainDamage> in fact you'll find the asparagus tasting more intense when you add the nutmeg
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2020-10-28T15:51:24 < Cracki> ##michelin32
2020-10-28T15:51:51 < BrainDamage> 1 star: would not eat again
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2020-10-28T15:53:49 < Cracki> oh, those recipes sound successful
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2020-10-28T16:36:29 < sync> BrainDamage: the problem is, it's not asparagus season
2020-10-28T16:36:59 < BrainDamage> yeah, need to wait few months
2020-10-28T16:37:22 < BrainDamage> near april or so
2020-10-28T16:41:29 < mawk> Al + lemon juice
2020-10-28T16:41:39 < mawk> best way to get alzheimer
2020-10-28T16:47:10 < BrainDamage> a) there's no evidence of aluminium cooking utensils to be related to alzheimer
2020-10-28T16:47:24 < BrainDamage> b) I said when serving, not wheen cooking
2020-10-28T16:47:55 < PaulFertser> In moscow I guess asparagus is available from most major food stores all year round.
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2020-10-28T16:55:01 < benishor> asparagus in vodka you mean
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2020-10-28T17:04:55 < PaulFertser> benishor: no, I really mean many different "seasonal" food items are widely available all year round. Of course, the price differs but it's not something outrageous.
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2020-10-28T17:11:31 < benishor> PaulFertser: of course, I was attempting to troll
2020-10-28T17:12:44 < PaulFertser> I think one can relatively easy find vodka with chile pepper but not asparagus.
2020-10-28T17:12:48 < BrainDamage> you can make black pepper vodka, just crush them and dump in the bottle, and shake it once per day for a week
2020-10-28T17:12:59 < BrainDamage> the colour pattern is awesome
2020-10-28T17:13:05 < BrainDamage> like sunburst
2020-10-28T17:13:46 < BrainDamage> if you're not familiar with musical instruments, this is sunburst http://static.keymusic.com/products/220632/XL/fender-stratacoustic-premier-3-color-sunburst-4.jpg
2020-10-28T17:14:39 < Cracki> colour patterns from black pepper in alcohol?
2020-10-28T17:14:51 < Cracki> ah, gradient
2020-10-28T17:14:57 < BrainDamage> yes
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2020-10-28T17:30:11 < benishor> PaulFertser: you russian? or an expat in russia?
2020-10-28T17:32:38 < PaulFertser> benishor: russian
2020-10-28T17:36:55 < benishor> hi5 my orthodox brother
2020-10-28T17:37:00 < benishor> and fuck politicians
2020-10-28T17:37:37 < benishor> they all make it seem like regular people don't get along and everybody's everybody's enemy
2020-10-28T17:38:41 < benishor> I'm still waiting for asimov's foundation take on the world. or gene roddenberry's
2020-10-28T17:39:15 < PaulFertser> benishor: I identify as a free software enthusiast, and I'm agnostic regarding religion.
2020-10-28T17:39:19 < funky> I'm waiting for universities to offer psychohistory.
2020-10-28T17:41:20 < benishor> PaulFertser: even though agnostic or atheist or whatever, you were born in a certain religion which you are a part of due to inheritance
2020-10-28T17:41:42 < benishor> I was born orthodox although I'm far from being a believer or practicing member
2020-10-28T17:41:54 < benishor> funky: yeah, that'd be nice
2020-10-28T17:45:52 < PaulFertser> benishor: I'm not so sure, I was born during the USSR times, and "bolshevism" was kind of a religion too. Of course I know a bit more about orthodox christianity than people living elsewhere but I wouldn't call that being "born in a certain religion". Not sure if that affects me anyhow.
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2020-10-28T17:47:32 < PaulFertser> afaik many orthodox priests were KGB agents
2020-10-28T17:47:43 < benishor> PaulFertser: I too was born during the romanian comunist times, when our country was sharing the ideals of ussr
2020-10-28T17:49:20 < benishor> the test is simple imo: if whenever one of your relative gets married, dies or has a baby born you participate to some orthodox sermon, then you are orthodox
2020-10-28T17:50:07 < mawk> why are you agnostic PaulFertser 
2020-10-28T17:50:08 < benishor> it means you were born orthodox, regardless of your current affiliation to any religious community or belief
2020-10-28T17:50:12 < mawk> you know it's false
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2020-10-28T17:50:15 < mawk> deep down
2020-10-28T17:50:20 < mawk> come join my movement of semantic atheism
2020-10-28T17:50:25 < benishor> why is it false, mawk?
2020-10-28T17:50:52 < mawk> because it cannot be true that something supernatural interacts with our universe
2020-10-28T17:51:02 < benishor> why?
2020-10-28T17:51:11 < mawk> because it wouldn't be supernatural anymore
2020-10-28T17:51:15 < PaulFertser> benishor: the way your people dealt with Ceaușescu was an impressive feat.
2020-10-28T17:51:17 < mawk> we would classify it as a physical law
2020-10-28T17:51:30 < BrainDamage> well, it's more like, if it interacts wit the universe, then it's within the realm of science
2020-10-28T17:51:35 < mawk> yeah
2020-10-28T17:51:40 < BrainDamage> if it doesn't, then it can be ignored
2020-10-28T17:51:42 < benishor> PaulFertser: people were fed up but the main trigger surely came from outside
2020-10-28T17:51:45 < mawk> that's it
2020-10-28T17:52:11 < benishor> I'd say that creating something out of nothing would be quite a supernatural feat 
2020-10-28T17:52:22 < benishor> and I'm loudly thinking big bang
2020-10-28T17:52:23 < PaulFertser> benishor: I can't remember participating in an orthodox sermon at all ever. I think I was baptised though, but that's just because my grandmother was insisting on it.
2020-10-28T17:53:02 < benishor> physics can explain everything once you have your quantities right
2020-10-28T17:53:17 < Cracki> what about[tm] the supernatural that affects our universe tangibly but can't be formulated as a physical law because it acts unpredictably
2020-10-28T17:53:18 < mawk> even if there was a time before big bang, which isn't quite certain, that does not concern us at all
2020-10-28T17:53:21 < benishor> what goes in, what gets transformed, etc
2020-10-28T17:53:40 < mawk> Cracki: yeah that's the only assumption I make, that physical phenomenon are consistent
2020-10-28T17:53:40 < benishor> but there are certain things that require out-of-the-box energy
2020-10-28T17:53:53 < mawk> if they are not, well then I'll believe; but we've seen consistency for billion of years
2020-10-28T17:54:04 < benishor> let's also not forget we do not hold the ultimate truth about physics
2020-10-28T17:54:20 < mawk> what kind of out of the box energy?
2020-10-28T17:54:25 < PaulFertser> benishor: I remember coming to a jewish wedding though, as my cousin surprisingly became a judaism believer with age.
2020-10-28T17:54:30 < mawk> total energy of universe is zero, there was no "creation out of nothing"
2020-10-28T17:54:31 < BrainDamage> mawk: since we're on a epistemiological journey, before that argument I like to separate the bundle that religion often has, the belief in a superior being, the morals, and the societal structture
2020-10-28T17:54:43 < Cracki> if you transform the cosmic microwave background just right you get a picture of Apex Twin
2020-10-28T17:54:51 < mawk> lol
2020-10-28T17:55:04 < benishor> mawk: I remember reading through feynman's work for simple people and getting to the energy chapter
2020-10-28T17:55:18 < benishor> and I was suddenly struck by the thing that noone really knows what energy actually is
2020-10-28T17:55:28 < Cracki> or was that aphex twin, my bad
2020-10-28T17:55:34 < benishor> it's something about which we only remarked it's constant in a system
2020-10-28T17:55:47 < benishor> aphex twin, cracki
2020-10-28T17:55:48 < mawk> it's not even constant
2020-10-28T17:55:50 < BrainDamage> there was a fantastic video in italian where they said that pi if decoded with mp4 it's a viddeo stream of god mocking us
2020-10-28T17:55:53 < benishor> and you must be old, knowing that
2020-10-28T17:55:54 < benishor> :))
2020-10-28T17:56:10 < benishor> BrainDamage: brilliant script
2020-10-28T17:56:13 < mawk> but we know in which way it isn't constant, it's not like we're ignorant
2020-10-28T17:56:23 < Cracki> it's not as old as beethoven :>
2020-10-28T17:56:47 < benishor> we may only *know* local phenomena
2020-10-28T17:57:02 < benishor> all we *know* is by observation
2020-10-28T17:57:23 < mawk> you mean at every place we're not looking there's a little naked angel dancing?
2020-10-28T17:57:28 < Cracki> so you deny that we can affect the physical world by pure volition
2020-10-28T17:57:28 < mawk> maybe, but that's not very likely
2020-10-28T17:57:29 < PaulFertser> mawk: I think religious people define that supernatural in a way that prohibit any scientific (reproducible, verifiable) means to codify it, so I can't see how I can reason about matters like that.  
2020-10-28T17:57:45 < BrainDamage> benishor: do you even know what locality implies?
2020-10-28T17:57:52 < benishor> let's make it clear: I'm not religious by any mean
2020-10-28T17:57:58 < Cracki> this is my god box, you may not look into it
2020-10-28T17:58:05 < benishor> I just can't discard the existence of higher level entities yet
2020-10-28T17:58:20 < mawk> you can start by discarding the ones of all organized religion, benishor 
2020-10-28T17:58:21 < benishor> not until we can clearly prove they don't exist
2020-10-28T17:58:21 < BrainDamage> locality in physics has a pretty specific meaning
2020-10-28T17:58:29 < Cracki> being open to the existence of higher level entities would still be atheism
2020-10-28T17:58:42 < mawk> some call it agnosticism, Cracki 
2020-10-28T17:58:46 < benishor> BrainDamage: I wasn't refering to locality in physics. I don't know what that is to physics
2020-10-28T17:58:51 < mawk> yes PaulFertser that is one issue with convincing them
2020-10-28T17:58:53 < Cracki> higher level entities aren't gods
2020-10-28T17:59:01 < Cracki> gods are human superstition
2020-10-28T17:59:05 < benishor> I was merely refering to phenomena local to some parts of the universe
2020-10-28T17:59:17 < Cracki> maybe yall should watch ten seasons of stargate sg1 for a baseline
2020-10-28T17:59:23 < benishor> it's not like we visited all universe and we can draw conclusions
2020-10-28T17:59:52 < BrainDamage> the assumption of physics actually is that rules are pervasive and time invariant
2020-10-28T17:59:55 < Cracki> if I flip a coin a trillion times and it _always_ comes up heads, what are the chances that it has more than one side?
2020-10-28T18:00:11 < mawk> ~ 3/10^15
2020-10-28T18:00:38 < BrainDamage> and we can observe backwards in time by looking at the edge of observable universe
2020-10-28T18:00:44 < Cracki> ok ok I'm mixing probabilities and proofs
2020-10-28T18:00:51 < BrainDamage> which unfortunately shrinks more and more as time passes
2020-10-28T18:03:46 < mawk> dot is so annoying
2020-10-28T18:03:55 < mawk> I should've used a graphical tool from the beggining
2020-10-28T18:04:18 < Cracki> what is there
2020-10-28T18:04:22 < Cracki> don't say dia
2020-10-28T18:04:24 < BrainDamage> also the argument is not that god doesn't exist, but that if it does exist, and doesn't interact with the universe, it can be ignored for any practical purposes
2020-10-28T18:04:40 < BrainDamage> dot is from graphviz
2020-10-28T18:04:51 < BrainDamage> even more arcane than dia
2020-10-28T18:05:08 < Cracki> ms visio? all of them act like drawing programs, maybe with some "stickiness" that simulates actual modeling. if I had to model soemthing I'd reach for simulink
2020-10-28T18:05:08 < BrainDamage> but you could go worse, there's tikz for [la]tex
2020-10-28T18:05:22 < Cracki> I know tikz and I know a bunch of fanboys. they are as annoying as expected.
2020-10-28T18:05:34 < mawk> when you don't want anything fancy dot is pretty cool
2020-10-28T18:05:40 < mawk> just write the graph as you would on irc
2020-10-28T18:05:52 < Cracki> last time I had to draw a complex graph I generated the .dot file from python
2020-10-28T18:05:53 < mawk> but I wanted to reorder nodes to have one be the top left node, and just that is annoying
2020-10-28T18:06:18 < BrainDamage> I remember growing extremely frustrated with dot because its algo to distribute the nodes was extremely naive
2020-10-28T18:06:27 < mawk> so I strategically set some edges with [constraint=false] so they are not taken into account for node reordering, and it workd
2020-10-28T18:06:28 < BrainDamage> and the resulting figure was a mess
2020-10-28T18:06:37 < mawk> you can tweak that algo apparently
2020-10-28T18:06:44 < mawk> with one of the 843098403 barely documented attributes
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2020-10-28T18:07:28 < mawk> I guess what they're doing is model each edge as a spring, then randomize everything until lowest energy is attained?
2020-10-28T18:07:30 < mawk> something like this
2020-10-28T18:07:33 < Cracki> what does it do, place randomly and "anneal"? there are probably smarter ways but I wouldn't know them. I know there's some "higher order embedding" algorithm out there that was used to visualize huge graphs (NNs?)
2020-10-28T18:07:56 < Cracki> if they do that in 2d initially, it's bound to get stuck in a local maximum
2020-10-28T18:10:01 < Cracki> hah they cite two people/publications https://rdrr.io/bioc/Rgraphviz/man/GraphvizLayouts.html
2020-10-28T18:10:55 < Cracki> they say it breaks cycles before layouting. obvious now that I think about it. it has conspicuous "backward" edges
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2020-10-28T18:11:43 < mawk> I tried the neato layout
2020-10-28T18:11:52 < mawk> it placed all the nodes at the same position
2020-10-28T18:11:54 < mawk> lol
2020-10-28T18:12:04 < jpa-> mawk: next, try tikz, it's very easy and intuitive   http://jpa.kapsi.fi/stuff/pix/tikz.png
2020-10-28T18:12:07 < Cracki> done! *wipes hands*
2020-10-28T18:12:07 < mawk> neato was the spring thing I said
2020-10-28T18:12:15 < mawk> minimize energy of springs
2020-10-28T18:12:27 < mawk> doesn't work very well with no configuration apparently
2020-10-28T18:12:45 < mawk> all these \pixel commands look scary jpa- , is that manual placing?
2020-10-28T18:12:57 < jpa-> mostly manual yeah
2020-10-28T18:13:19 < Cracki> tikz can do affine or even perspective transforms. looks like you describe strokes and polygons and it does the transforming
2020-10-28T18:13:34 < Cracki> \pixel looks like a macro for a square with a number in it
2020-10-28T18:13:41 < jpa-> it is
2020-10-28T18:13:57 < jpa-> and i'm just using grid layout in {} to place them
2020-10-28T18:14:22 < jpa-> (well the args to \pixel are the grid coords
2020-10-28T18:14:25 < mawk> konvoluutio
2020-10-28T18:14:39 < Cracki> edellistä
2020-10-28T18:15:06 < Cracki> prosenttipiste sounds percentic, or maybe presentable
2020-10-28T18:15:21 < mawk> prozent
2020-10-28T18:15:41 < jpa-> you're learning finnish fast
2020-10-28T18:15:49 < Cracki> that language is so unlike what a central european would be exposed to
2020-10-28T18:16:22 < Cracki> Keskihajonnan! war cry
2020-10-28T18:16:22 < mawk> you can go to easy frysia get a taste of dutchland
2020-10-28T18:16:37 < mawk> keskiha is ghetto talk for "what do you want" in french
2020-10-28T18:16:44 < mawk> usually said before you stab someone
2020-10-28T18:16:52 < Cracki> lol
2020-10-28T18:16:58 < mawk> east frysia*
2020-10-28T18:17:03 < jpa-> that's finnish academic talk for you
2020-10-28T18:17:08 < Cracki> in german that might be "was guckst du"
2020-10-28T18:19:14 < BrainDamage> "che vuoi" often dubbed as "cazzo vuoi?" for italian
2020-10-28T18:20:01 < BrainDamage> it's not just the words as the emphatic pronunciation that's particular
2020-10-28T18:20:07 < Cracki> I'm waiting for someone to come up with plain text and inline lisp... attempts to use python as a DSL look awful but they're semantically nice; things like latex approach bash scripting (bash can do "arrays") in semantic breakage but look somewhat okay syntactically
2020-10-28T18:23:02 < Cracki> muahaha https://dl.acm.org/doi/10.1002/spe.485
2020-10-28T18:23:07 < Cracki> >Developing a lisp-based preprocessor for TEX documents 
2020-10-28T18:23:42 < Cracki> preprocessors all the way down
2020-10-28T18:23:48 < mawk> lol
2020-10-28T18:23:52 < Cracki> https://oremacs.com/2015/01/23/eltex/
2020-10-28T18:24:22 < BrainDamage> you can even use emacs as init
2020-10-28T18:24:40 < Cracki> I am somewhat tickled to try that the next time I am required to produce a document that looks exactly like it was made by tex/latex
2020-10-28T18:25:29 < Cracki> my biggest gripe with latex and its fanboys is that they're almost universally unable to produce decent slide sets (ppt karaoke), or anything that isn't text/formulas
2020-10-28T18:25:58 < Cracki> pictures are literally trump to them. pages full of bullet points, no biggie. an illustration? oh em gee
2020-10-28T18:27:04 < Cracki> I know _one_ dude who loves to come up with illustrations and even animations with latex, to explain theoretical computer science. he's one of a kind because he cares enough and treats it as a tool, not a shrine.
2020-10-28T18:28:19 < BrainDamage> I use ipe if I have to deal with illustrations and latex
2020-10-28T18:28:31 < BrainDamage> I generate a eps that I can embed easily
2020-10-28T18:28:40 < BrainDamage> and the eps in turn can have latex code
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2020-10-28T18:41:58 < benishor> I love this channel
2020-10-28T18:42:34 < benishor> asparagus to vodka to god to physics to graph renderers in a couple of minutes
2020-10-28T18:50:22 < mawk> I missed the vodka part
2020-10-28T18:51:19 < mawk> it's not cooking ustensils BrainDamage it's aluminium foil with acid
2020-10-28T18:51:28 < mawk> dissolving Al salts in your food
2020-10-28T18:51:39 < mawk> for ustentils I guess it's fine
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2020-10-28T18:58:09 < apathy> did someone say bath salts?
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2020-10-28T19:09:00 < karlp> well, that was fun. did some electrical work, switched off teh power. switched it on later, all good.
2020-10-28T19:09:22 < karlp> except..... the network switch in my office corner had weird lights on it, and listening carefully was "clicking"
2020-10-28T19:09:29 < karlp> and... hot.
2020-10-28T19:09:31 < zyp> nice
2020-10-28T19:09:46 < karlp> had obviously been shorting and cutting out and trying to restart for a good couple of hours
2020-10-28T19:09:55 < karlp> heat sinks inside are still suuuuper toasty
2020-10-28T19:10:03 < karlp> no obvious burn outs though.
2020-10-28T19:10:22 < karlp> so no idea whether it was the supply or the switch at the moment.
2020-10-28T19:10:37 < karlp> have to dig in the adapter pile and see if have another one after it cools down :)
2020-10-28T19:10:37 < jpa-> it was attempting automatic failover to tcp over smoke signals
2020-10-28T19:10:43 < zyp> I finally ordered that mikrotik switch I've been eyeing for over a year
2020-10-28T19:10:49 < karlp> which one?
2020-10-28T19:11:02 < zyp> https://mikrotik.com/product/crs328_24p_4s_rm
2020-10-28T19:12:28 < zyp> got my company VAT registered the other day, so I'm filing it as a company expense to get VAT and tax for it deducted
2020-10-28T19:21:56 < benishor> zyp: what's your company's profile?
2020-10-28T19:22:09 -!- fluiD [~fluiD@unaffiliated/nn7] has quit [Quit: Leaving]
2020-10-28T19:22:50 < zyp> I do embedded dev
2020-10-28T19:24:05 < zyp> normally just a few side projects next to a normal day job, but now I'm covid-furloughed, so I've currently got a full time project
2020-10-28T19:24:09 -!- Streaker [~Streaker@unaffiliated/streaker] has quit [Quit: Reconnecting...]
2020-10-28T19:39:55 < karlp> power suppl seems to be carbon copy of this: https://bin.jvnv.net/file/fxQJz.png same fets and all, 
2020-10-28T19:40:03 < karlp> and both diodes are shorts.
2020-10-28T19:40:39 -!- renn0xtk9 [~max@2001:a61:2a0b:901:1c30:eda:eac9:db45] has quit [Quit: Konversation terminated!]
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2020-10-28T19:58:42 < qyx> feeling the power
2020-10-28T20:09:25 < upgrdman> amd bought xilinx... hmm
2020-10-28T20:09:25 -!- aidenhjj [~aidenhjj@78.40.148.177] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer]
2020-10-28T20:09:55 < mawk> you're late upgrdman 
2020-10-28T20:10:04 < upgrdman> :( ok
2020-10-28T20:16:24 -!- aidenhjj [~aidenhjj@78.40.148.177] has joined ##stm32
2020-10-28T20:17:47 < Steffanx> I recall the family of upgrdman's wife wasnt convinced yet..
2020-10-28T20:18:03 < upgrdman> ?
2020-10-28T20:18:11 < Steffanx> The chinese.
2020-10-28T20:18:17 < upgrdman> o
2020-10-28T20:18:39 < Steffanx> I cannot find the sores, but.. I recall some major chinese companies had a few complaints
2020-10-28T20:19:07 < Steffanx> And if that happens it will be nxp-qualcom all over again
2020-10-28T20:20:00 < Steffanx> Or arent you married yet, upgrdman? ;)
2020-10-28T20:20:11 < upgrdman> not yet
2020-10-28T20:22:43 < bitmask> hmmm, should I go with https://www.amazon.com/IWISS-Battery-Cable-Crimping-Cutter/dp/B00MVE48Z6/ or a cheap pneumatic one
2020-10-28T20:23:04 < bitmask> err hydraulic?
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2020-10-28T20:31:07 < mawk> I thought upgrdman was the chinese itself
2020-10-28T20:31:08 < karlp> Steffanx: they were already complaining about the arm sale.
2020-10-28T20:31:29 < upgrdman> mawk, im 'murican
2020-10-28T20:31:37 < mawk> you were
2020-10-28T20:31:42 < Steffanx> lol mawk
2020-10-28T20:31:43 < mawk> they don't want you anymore  now
2020-10-28T20:31:57 < karlp> bitmask: are you looking at the crimper or the cutter there?
2020-10-28T20:32:16 < karlp> I have that crimper, works fine, wouldn't want to do a lot of work with it, but was perfectly suitable for what we were donig
2020-10-28T20:32:21 < bitmask> crimper but the cutter is a nice addition, i'll probably need to buy one anyway
2020-10-28T20:32:40 < bitmask> karlp nice, what diameter wire?
2020-10-28T20:32:54 < bitmask> think its ok with 2 and 4 awg
2020-10-28T20:33:09 < bitmask> the biggest issue I see is that its metric
2020-10-28T20:33:15 < karlp> big wire.
2020-10-28T20:33:21 < karlp> metric is the real world, 
2020-10-28T20:33:38 < karlp> I don't fucking know, it's like finger thick.
2020-10-28T20:33:43 < bitmask> yes and usually im all for metric but when getting wire, i usually only find awg
2020-10-28T20:34:00 < karlp> well, I live in metric world, so it was all mm² :)
2020-10-28T20:34:19 < karlp> that one you linked claims to be all labelled in awg anyway
2020-10-28T20:34:39 < bitmask> oh really? maybe i was thinking of something else
2020-10-28T20:34:46 < karlp> hx50b and hx50i for imperial 
2020-10-28T20:35:07 < karlp> heh, answer from seller, "Actually the HX-50B and HX-50BI are totally same now in imperial jaw size on cable lugs. We firstly try to distinguish the metric and imperial size between HX-50B and HX-50BI, now they are totally same."
2020-10-28T20:36:09 < bitmask> heh
2020-10-28T20:36:33 < bitmask> ever use something like this? https://www.amazon.com/Hydraulic-Battery-Terminal-Crimper-Crimping/dp/B06XR8BY65/
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2020-10-28T20:45:10 < karlp> no, didn't even see that sort.
2020-10-28T20:45:23 < karlp> it's not really the sort of thing I need to do very often :)
2020-10-28T20:47:48 < bitmask> yea same here, i'll just go with the first one
2020-10-28T20:48:09 < Steffanx> what are you up to mr bitmask?
2020-10-28T20:49:20 < bitmask> finishing up my spot welder, silly to order a few small pre-lugged cables when I already have a cable I can use, just need a crimper
2020-10-28T20:59:37 -!- Miyu is now known as hackkitten
2020-10-28T21:11:03 < BrainDamage> but what's the cost of one vs the other?
2020-10-28T21:15:31 < BrainDamage> mawk: even then, there's no proved causal link beetween al an alzheimer, also, you can just add the lemon juice after you took them off the cooking foil, it's just dressing for serving
2020-10-28T21:18:22 < BrainDamage> they are only known to be a bit correlated ( presence of Al in the plaques ), but that doesn't mean there's causation, the mechanism that causes alzheimer can also be the one that binds the al, or even the plaques on their own could trap it
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2020-10-28T21:31:21 < bitmask> if I do 2 projects that require lugs then the crimper is cheaper, if I went with the crimper from the beginning I probably could have gotten the microwave transformer spot welder working
2020-10-28T21:40:30 < kakix> I have hammer operated crimper
2020-10-28T21:40:33 < kakix> big hammer
2020-10-28T21:40:37 < kakix> put stuff in
2020-10-28T21:40:45 < kakix> give it a whack
2020-10-28T21:41:26 < kakix> it drives a wedge into thing
2020-10-28T21:42:13 < BrainDamage> I have a lot of hammer operated tools, they have long handles meant to be squeezed by hand but a mallet does the job easier
2020-10-28T21:42:26 < BrainDamage> as long as the handle can withstand it
2020-10-28T21:43:27 < BrainDamage> if the handles are flimsy, then I just hammer the short side and only get limited leverage
2020-10-28T21:47:55 < fenugrec_> suggestion for a so-8 linear regulator, pin-compatible with 78L05, but with 21st-century quiescent current and LDO ?
2020-10-28T21:48:40 < fenugrec_> LP2951 isn't drop-in compatible, lm317L even less
2020-10-28T21:49:05 < qyx> for a new design?
2020-10-28T21:50:35 < fenugrec_> qyx, nah, upgrading a battery-powered thing. quiescent of the 78L05 is around 50% of total consumption
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2020-10-28T22:10:30 < mawk> when I write sms pdu, it's in hex?
2020-10-28T22:10:36 < mawk> or in bytes? and then I need to escape stuff
2020-10-28T22:11:27 < mawk> at least \x1A and \x1B should be escaped
2020-10-28T22:17:41 < PaulFertser> White with AT commands?
2020-10-28T22:18:44 < mawk> the one to send sms, AT+CMGS
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2020-10-28T22:32:16 < mawk> error messages are not very indicative
2020-10-28T22:32:28 < mawk> and IC docs are like google translated from chinese
2020-10-28T22:32:31 < mawk> SIMCom stuff
2020-10-28T22:32:39 < mawk> I also have gemalto parts, they look more professionnal
2020-10-28T22:32:43 < mawk> of course, because they're french
2020-10-28T22:36:50 < PaulFertser> I remember some french or german GSM module had UART Tx/Rx mixed up in the official doc.
2020-10-28T22:37:34 < qyx> mawk: you can choose the format
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2020-10-28T22:37:44 < qyx> theres an AT command for it
2020-10-28T22:37:53 < mawk> I thought format was just for text mode
2020-10-28T22:37:58 < mawk> so I put format to hex, then I send PDU in hex?
2020-10-28T22:38:00 < PaulFertser> I think normally in PDU mode you just write hex numbers, witohut escaping and \x
2020-10-28T22:39:26 < PaulFertser> This matches what I remember: https://www.developershome.com/sms/cmgsCommand4.asp
2020-10-28T22:41:12 < PaulFertser> It's called SMS PDU mode, just that.
2020-10-28T22:42:08 < Steffanx> What module is it even mawk?
2020-10-28T22:42:28 < mawk> SIM900
2020-10-28T22:42:37 < Steffanx> I have some chinese software for you so you can write your own firmware for it. 
2020-10-28T22:42:42 < Steffanx> I stole it from a russian ftp
2020-10-28T22:42:48 < kakix> can functions in C take named parameters?
2020-10-28T22:43:03 < qyx> no, at least not in c99
2020-10-28T22:43:06 < Cracki> you can pass a struct
2020-10-28T22:43:10 < qyx> you can abuse a struct
2020-10-28T22:43:19 < Cracki> you can rape a struct
2020-10-28T22:43:24 < mawk> embedded AT shit Steffanx ?
2020-10-28T22:43:25 < kakix> yes
2020-10-28T22:43:30 < mawk> I found the same ftp server as you I guess lol
2020-10-28T22:43:43 < mawk> but send it nonetheless
2020-10-28T22:43:46 < mawk> maybe I don't have it
2020-10-28T22:43:50 < Steffanx> im not sure, the ftp i found no longer exists i think
2020-10-28T22:43:56 < Steffanx> give me link please
2020-10-28T22:44:18 < Cracki> you can add a preprocessor macro to hide the struct literal syntax too, so it looks almost like a function
2020-10-28T22:44:37 < kakix> Cracki: qyx: you use that trick?
2020-10-28T22:44:45 < qyx> no
2020-10-28T22:44:47 < Cracki> >_> I plead the fifth
2020-10-28T22:45:31 < Cracki> I used some preprocessor stuff to keep track of pin assignments and automatically generate tables to access them from runtime-given string names and whatnot
2020-10-28T22:45:35 < Steffanx> Ah, yes Embedded AT is in there too mawk
2020-10-28T22:45:40 < steve_> you can typedef the parameters
2020-10-28T22:45:51 < mawk> simcom.ee Steffanx 
2020-10-28T22:45:58 < mawk> is the unofficial site with all the "CONFIDENTIAL" pdf files
2020-10-28T22:46:04 < mawk> I scraped it
2020-10-28T22:46:06 < Steffanx> i dont remember mawk
2020-10-28T22:46:23 < Steffanx> https://imgur.com/a/3AxPycc that was there
2020-10-28T22:46:24 < Cracki> I think you can get as far as "foo(.b = 456, .a = 123)"
2020-10-28T22:46:49 < mawk> yes indeed
2020-10-28T22:46:50 < Cracki> where foo is a macro taking variable number of args, and the args are expanded into (struct something) { args here... }
2020-10-28T22:46:58 < Steffanx> also sagem, navis, lead tech and other shit.
2020-10-28T22:47:02 < Cracki> and then the actual function gets that shoved down its parameter
2020-10-28T22:47:28 < mawk> #define foo(...) (struct stuff){__VA_ARGS__}
2020-10-28T22:47:53 < mawk> you can do tricks also if you want to add arguments before the variadic ones
2020-10-28T22:48:31 < Cracki> including the function call is obviously: #define foo(...) real_foo((struct stuff){__VA_ARGS__})
2020-10-28T22:48:32 < mawk> #define foo(bar, ...) (struct stuff){.name = "PA" #bar, ## __VA_ARGS__};
2020-10-28T22:48:46 < mawk> or whatever crazy preprocessing you want to do
2020-10-28T22:48:49 < Cracki> I love string # and ##
2020-10-28T22:49:07 < mawk> pasting __VA_ARGS__ to a comma is a special trick to swallow the comma if __VA_ARGS__ is empty
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2020-10-28T22:49:14 < mawk> to not get a syntax error in function calls about trailing comma
2020-10-28T22:50:58 < Cracki> yeah this # and ## is how I defined my pin table. I'd have one include that's the definition, like PIN(A,15, "BUSINESS_LOGIC_IO_42", PU/PD, active high/low, ...) and then redefine PIN, include it, undefine PIN, whenever I need to generate a table
2020-10-28T22:51:19 < Cracki> I also produced a typedef per pin name. if I ever used the same pin twice, it'd give me a name clash at compile time
2020-10-28T22:51:40 < Cracki> dirty but does the job
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2020-10-28T23:14:15 < aandrew> Cracki: https://www.mixdown.ca/redmine/projects/mixdown/wiki/Macro_Abuse_in_C
2020-10-28T23:14:41 < Cracki> ye
2020-10-28T23:17:31 < kakix> this scala thing is pretty fun language
2020-10-28T23:18:09 < kakix> but man it's heavy
2020-10-28T23:25:27 < kakix> on my 900mhz ultrabook though
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2020-10-28T23:33:20 < zyp> what separates scala from java?
2020-10-28T23:33:48 < PaulFertser> Skills required
2020-10-28T23:34:23 < zyp> AFAIK scala also runs on the JVM
2020-10-28T23:34:30 < Cracki> "java programmer" is an euphemism for bottom of the barrel, "we can turn anyone into a coder"
2020-10-28T23:34:39 < PaulFertser> Java's good for coding monkeys. Scala assumes familiarity with functional programming concepts.
2020-10-28T23:34:57 < zyp> ah, so scala is the fortran of java?
2020-10-28T23:35:02 < Cracki> scala supports paradigms such as functional, it seems to have an "advanced" type system, ... stuff java doesn't dare inflict upon its audience
2020-10-28T23:35:17 < Cracki> what is "the fortran" of anything
2020-10-28T23:35:33 < Cracki> fortran is an old language but quite popular in engineering and numerical simulation circles
2020-10-28T23:35:34 < zyp> idk, I just made that up
2020-10-28T23:35:39 < PaulFertser> There's also Kotlin and it's apparently getting more and more popular.
2020-10-28T23:35:54 < Cracki> I think that's just hype
2020-10-28T23:36:05 < Cracki> they have to sell their IDEs so they come up with reasons
2020-10-28T23:36:08 < zyp> wait, fuck
2020-10-28T23:36:13 < zyp> not fortran, I meant haskell
2020-10-28T23:36:17 < Cracki> yeah
2020-10-28T23:36:30 < Cracki> ML, haskell, ocaml, ...
2020-10-28T23:36:32 < zyp> idk how I managed to mix that up
2020-10-28T23:36:36 < PaulFertser> :D
2020-10-28T23:36:37 < Cracki> those functional languages with more theory than praxis
2020-10-28T23:36:57 < Cracki> functional languages lead to normal programmers standing against a wall
2020-10-28T23:37:19 < Cracki> I hear those things are good for embedded programming :>
2020-10-28T23:37:20 < zyp> but still, fortran, haskell, both languages I've never used and probably never will bother with :p
2020-10-28T23:37:29 < Cracki> btw, go has the same goal as java, turn mediocre programmers into productive programmers
2020-10-28T23:37:43 < Steffanx> *haksell.
2020-10-28T23:37:47 < Cracki> except java is sun/oracle and go is google
2020-10-28T23:37:50 < Cracki> HASSkel
2020-10-28T23:37:53 < BrainDamage> more like the F# of java
2020-10-28T23:38:03 < Cracki> if your command of german allows you to appreciate the pun
2020-10-28T23:38:14 < Cracki> f#, that's microsoft's scala isn't it
2020-10-28T23:38:15 < BrainDamage> F# is functional programming for the .net VM
2020-10-28T23:38:29 < Cracki> sounds like what factor is to forth
2020-10-28T23:38:50 < Cracki> (I don't know factor and only know the barest basics of forth)
2020-10-28T23:39:41 < BrainDamage> I had to read once a piece of example code in F#, I swore myself "never again"
2020-10-28T23:40:10 < Steffanx> I only read about F#, now i actually have to see what it looks like
2020-10-28T23:40:46 < kakix> ##haskell32
2020-10-28T23:43:29 < Steffanx> Hi kakix, how is your day today
2020-10-28T23:43:42 < kakix> i'm not feeling okay
2020-10-28T23:43:50 < kakix> I feel like going to sleep
2020-10-28T23:43:54 < Cracki> yeah they're reinventing haskell... https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/F_Sharp_(programming_language)
2020-10-28T23:44:01 < kakix> and it's not even 2am yet
2020-10-28T23:44:18 < Cracki> except the syntax is somewhat more pascalish and the type system isn't as exotic
2020-10-28T23:44:26 < Steffanx> Sleep well then kakix
2020-10-28T23:44:32 < Steffanx> Need a little sleep well kiss?
2020-10-28T23:44:38 < Cracki> take care, hope it's not the bat flu
2020-10-28T23:44:54 < Cracki> you'll wake up with fangs and a craving for bloood
2020-10-28T23:45:43 < BrainDamage> that doesn't sound so bad
2020-10-28T23:46:08 < kakix> no
2020-10-28T23:46:12 < kakix> I don't go
2020-10-28T23:49:21 < Steffanx> But rest is good for you kakix 
2020-10-28T23:50:00 < kakix> my night beer was too low on alcohol
2020-10-28T23:50:20 < kakix> that is why I feel not okay
2020-10-28T23:50:35 < zyp> better get some olvi
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2020-10-28T23:51:53 < Steffanx> Ohno, did the alcoholism kick in kakix ?
2020-10-28T23:52:01 < Steffanx> Snus it
2020-10-28T23:52:25 < kakix> it's not alcoholism to have one 0.5litre bottle of 10% beer every night
2020-10-28T23:53:53 < Steffanx> Ok.
2020-10-28T23:54:07 < Steffanx> Finlander antifreeze
2020-10-28T23:57:25 < BrainDamage> your liver will love you for it
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2020-10-29T00:17:13 < Cracki> ♫ wanna beat my liver ♫ https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IM-ky0uLFbI
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2020-10-29T00:22:56 < Streaker> I wanna beat my lover, beat my lover!
2020-10-29T00:23:26 < Cracki> 1.1 million views https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1SF7G9UjVi0
2020-10-29T00:26:33 < Cracki> oh shit I can't post that
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2020-10-29T01:54:51 < steve_> are the nucleo boards the cheapest standalone debuggers for STM32?
2020-10-29T02:00:09 < steve_> ok the stlink v2 clones.  tried one before, didn't work.
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2020-10-29T02:03:47 < Cracki> well I got a stinkv2 china clone for under 2 bucks and it's working, tho I'd rather pay more for more functionality.
2020-10-29T02:04:00 < Cracki> you could go for a stinkv3
2020-10-29T02:04:33 < Cracki> I think that goes for less than some F4 discos I saw
2020-10-29T02:04:44 < Cracki> 10 bucks or so. there might be nucleos in that price range.
2020-10-29T02:05:14 < Cracki> since you asked for cheapest, I've gotta tell you that you can spend unlimited money on segger stuff
2020-10-29T02:06:49 < Cracki> a bunch of people like the blackmagic probe. some use whatever PCB with some cmsis-dap implementation
2020-10-29T02:07:26 < Cracki> there are probably ways to use a raspi's gpios to do SWD and JTAG
2020-10-29T02:08:20 < qyx> openocd with a rpi works ~ok
2020-10-29T02:08:48 < qyx> I used rpi zero w to debug over wifi
2020-10-29T02:28:57 < steve_> yep, need a couple more.  Went with the nucleos, atleast it comes with a "free dev kit"
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2020-10-29T08:54:52 < PaulFertser> Cracki: stlinkv3 is only good for stm32, can't be used with any other Cortex-M controllers, unlike the v2.
2020-10-29T09:06:42 < mawk> why?
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2020-10-29T09:45:50 < jpa-> mawk: locked on firmware side
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2020-10-29T10:54:57 < mawk> woohoo new terror attack in france
2020-10-29T10:55:02 < mawk> I missed my islamist friends
2020-10-29T10:55:38 < mawk> in the Notre-Dame church of Nic
2020-10-29T10:55:39 < mawk> e
2020-10-29T10:55:44 < Steffanx> Sores?
2020-10-29T10:55:59 < mawk> what
2020-10-29T10:57:29 < qyx> linky
2020-10-29T10:59:50 < mawk> https://twitter.com/DamienRieu/status/1321735716410372096
2020-10-29T10:59:59 < mawk> https://www.europe1.fr/faits-divers/information-europe-1-atatque-au-couteau-dans-la-basilique-notre-dame-de-nice-un-mort-et-plusieurs-blesses-4001878
2020-10-29T11:00:10 < mawk> another beheading
2020-10-29T11:06:28 < PaulFertser> They really want all their "brothers" to get purged out of France it seems.
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2020-10-29T11:18:12 < Steffanx> No, this is their way to show they do not tolerate that.
2020-10-29T11:44:09 < karlp> heh, cleaning up some local brannches on home comptuer
2020-10-29T11:44:14 < karlp> finding stuff from 2015....
2020-10-29T11:44:33 < jpa-> 2015 only?
2020-10-29T11:45:55 < zyp> maybe computer isn't older than 2015
2020-10-29T11:46:06 < karlp> well, I'm normally pretty good at this.
2020-10-29T11:46:48 < karlp> hrm, I wonder how to shell git to give me the commit at the head of all branches
2020-10-29T11:47:41 < karlp> for b in $(git branch); do git log -1; done
2020-10-29T11:48:12 < karlp> for b in $(git branch); do git log -1 $b; done
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2020-10-29T11:53:02 < karlp> ok, found one with march 2013.
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2020-10-29T12:22:21 < karlp> and if anyone's _realllly_ doing this, 
2020-10-29T12:22:23 < karlp> for b in $(git branch -l --format '%(refname)'); do  git log -1 $b; done
2020-10-29T12:22:41 < karlp> because otherwise you get a * from the "active branch" print out, which gives you interspersed garbage results)
2020-10-29T12:35:22 < Ultrasauce> i find shell scripting around the git cli really annoying
2020-10-29T12:37:35 < srk> karlp: git branch -lav
2020-10-29T12:40:29 < karlp> srk: how is that remotely relevant?
2020-10-29T12:59:18 < srk> well it does 'give me the commit at the head of all branches'
2020-10-29T13:03:09 < karlp> sure, but the goal was finding the oldest one, so it needs a git show/log.
2020-10-29T13:03:35 < karlp> you could cut/awk your output, sure, butagain, the "*" active branch will fuck up field counting.
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2020-10-29T13:08:41 < srk> git branch -lav --format '%(refname:short) %(objectname:short) %(subject)'
2020-10-29T13:09:38 < karlp> did you actually try that?
2020-10-29T13:10:09 < srk> ye
2020-10-29T13:10:16 < karlp> and you got a date?
2020-10-29T13:10:50 < srk> add %(authordate) to format
2020-10-29T13:11:02 < srk> man git-for-each-ref
2020-10-29T13:11:53 < karlp> yes, it was long enough that I gave up when I got the refname out without teh * for the active branch in front.
2020-10-29T13:12:06 < karlp> but yes, yay. eventually, you got there...
2020-10-29T13:15:44 < karlp> I love how formats there don't accept \t or \n, but it explains how it maps hex codes to them, so "just use %09 for \t and %0a for \n"
2020-10-29T13:15:51 < karlp> user friendly for professionals
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2020-10-29T13:50:45 < Steffanx> Did you know all the frenchies are terrorists mawk? Like 15 years ago when i was in Paris we were attacked by the elevator to the Sacré-Cœur.
2020-10-29T13:51:14 < mawk> lol
2020-10-29T13:51:17 < mawk> what happened?
2020-10-29T13:52:09 < Steffanx> Im not entirely sure, but it almost seemed like the cable snapped and it did an emergency stop.
2020-10-29T13:52:16 < Steffanx> The next day it was closed.
2020-10-29T13:52:56 < Steffanx> It was on the way down, a class mate even broke her leg because she had it between two poles, so the leg also snapped.
2020-10-29T13:53:30 < Steffanx> funny thing is.. i took the stairs and was laughing at my class mates because they were stuck in the evelator that stop. We had no clue what was going on, until we saw the scared look on their faces :D
2020-10-29T13:53:37 < Steffanx> *stopped
2020-10-29T13:57:05 < englishman> when did the poles get involved
2020-10-29T13:58:24 < Thorn> Poland cannot into elevator
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2020-10-29T14:08:49 < Steffanx> Lol idk the proper world englishman 
2020-10-29T14:08:54 < Steffanx> Better tell me
2020-10-29T14:09:11 < PaulFertser> It's unclear what you mean.
2020-10-29T14:09:46 < PaulFertser> I literally thought two big guys from poland broke her leg due to falling or something.
2020-10-29T14:10:46 < qyx> :D
2020-10-29T14:14:08 < Steffanx> Better translate "poles" then
2020-10-29T14:14:21 < Steffanx> I cannot help its an ambiguous word
2020-10-29T14:17:12 < Steffanx> Or google translate "palen" from dutch to whatever language
2020-10-29T14:17:30 < Steffanx> Or just ignore the entire story  whatever suits you
2020-10-29T14:20:22 < qyx> it interests me because I have no clue what you mean
2020-10-29T14:20:36 < qyx> for the start, whats an "elevator"
2020-10-29T14:21:06 < qyx> this kind? https://www.hitachi.com/businesses/elevator/images/products/el.jpg
2020-10-29T14:21:34 < Thorn> I've personally never seen poles in an elevator cab
2020-10-29T14:21:39 < Steffanx> ok, its a lift ;)
2020-10-29T14:22:04 < karlp> so, you have a "lift" little room, goes up andn down.
2020-10-29T14:22:12 < karlp> something broke, and it got stuck...
2020-10-29T14:22:17 < Steffanx> or maybe not.
2020-10-29T14:22:39 < karlp> I've still got no idea how a girl broke her leg by having it wrapped around some poles. (the metal tuby variety, not the comic ball variety)
2020-10-29T14:22:54 < qyx> cable chair ski lift? it has poles
2020-10-29T14:23:19 < qyx> oh
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2020-10-29T14:23:53 < karlp> well, sacrecouer is just a big church, so I'm thinking normal building lift/elevator? not a ski lift?
2020-10-29T14:24:20 < qyx> fair enough, I didn't know whats sacrecouer is
2020-10-29T14:24:42 < Steffanx> Lol, do i really have to make a drawing? and post https://nl.lmgtfy.app/#gsc.tab=0&gsc.q=sacre%20coeur%20elevator
2020-10-29T14:25:16 < Steffanx> Whatever, back to work.
2020-10-29T14:25:18 < karlp> righttttt
2020-10-29T14:25:40 < karlp> and that thing slipped down the rails? and osme girl had her legs wrapped around one of the itnernal things for people to hold onto and snapped her legs.
2020-10-29T14:25:53 < karlp> great trip to france, great story, thank you come again :)
2020-10-29T14:26:18 < Steffanx> Exactly, maybe not wrapped around, but .. between the "internal things for people to hold onto". | leg | 
2020-10-29T14:26:42 < Steffanx> Time to figure out how to tell this display to use 2-lanes MIPI-DSI with this 4-lane display. It seems possible, but idk how.
2020-10-29T14:26:57 < Thorn> railings? 
2020-10-29T14:28:34 < Steffanx> Someone at the ST forum seems to do it for exactly the same controller (thats where i even got the controller datasheet, since the guy posted it there), but the person doesnt say much about that :(
2020-10-29T14:29:51 < Steffanx> unless its part of the protocol and i dont know the details of mipi-dsi
2020-10-29T14:30:03 < karlp> what now?
2020-10-29T14:31:57 < Steffanx> I have a STM32H7 with 2-lane MIPI-DSI interface, client wants display X which has a 4-lane MIPI-DSI interface. It seems to be possible to drive it in 2-lane mode, but idk how.
2020-10-29T14:32:16 < Steffanx> yet
2020-10-29T14:33:08 < karlp> oh, I missed one line in your log, before thorn spoke. :)
2020-10-29T14:45:39 < mawk> PaulFertser: what I ended up doing for my eeprom write problem is write a python script that writes byte per byte in the eeprom
2020-10-29T14:45:46 < mawk> I found that I need to set adapter speed very low
2020-10-29T14:45:55 < mawk> after 24 bytes it crashes otherwise
2020-10-29T14:46:06 < mawk> I wonder if it's a stlink limitation or shitty cables
2020-10-29T14:46:15 < karlp> which part again?
2020-10-29T14:46:17 < karlp> l1?
2020-10-29T14:46:22 < karlp> or l0?
2020-10-29T14:46:35 < karlp> you're remembering that Tprog time for each byte right?
2020-10-29T14:47:08 < karlp> shit gets real quick if you're not checking the bsy flags.
2020-10-29T14:49:06 < mawk> I'm doing it from openocd with a stlink I mean, not from the board itself
2020-10-29T14:49:07 < mawk> it's a l1
2020-10-29T14:49:13 < karlp> so that's 3ms per byte.
2020-10-29T14:49:25 < karlp> if you don't respect that, no idea what happens.
2020-10-29T14:49:33 < mawk> ah, I see
2020-10-29T14:49:34 < mawk> thanks
2020-10-29T14:49:46 < mawk> my company "fixed" it by setting 1s per byte, but now they complain production of devices is very slow
2020-10-29T14:50:14 < mawk> but anyway they call stlink utility from a visual basic script once per byte, so they wouldn't even need delay, it's already slow enough like this
2020-10-29T14:50:27 < mawk> so now I'm rewriting this thing
2020-10-29T14:50:40 < karlp> eyah, I'd have thought that doing byte byte byte via tha oocd commands should be slower than 3ms, 
2020-10-29T14:50:46 < karlp> so what happens? how do you crash it?
2020-10-29T14:50:50 < mawk> apparently the boss is a huge fan of excel and visual basic, almost all the production tools are excel magic
2020-10-29T14:51:00 < karlp> were you trying to do a batch write to eeprom from a tcl function directly?
2020-10-29T14:51:04 < mawk> I flood it with mwb commands, and after the 24th byte the target reboots
2020-10-29T14:51:08 < karlp> right.
2020-10-29T14:51:12 < mawk> no, not batch write, just byte per byte
2020-10-29T14:51:31 < karlp> hrm. there's batching in openocd, you migth have triggered it? 
2020-10-29T14:51:33  * karlp shrugs
2020-10-29T14:51:54 < mawk> maybe, but then the batching code would have to be real magic to bundle all the mwb together I think
2020-10-29T14:51:55 < karlp> no idea if the hla adapters can do that, but some of the jtag ones will queue up commands to run over usb in batches
2020-10-29T14:52:00 < mawk> ah I see
2020-10-29T14:52:09 < mawk> maybe it could happen then
2020-10-29T14:52:48 < karlp> you can use m* commands to check the BSY flag by hand :)
2020-10-29T14:53:17 < mawk> ah yes that would be better
2020-10-29T14:53:45 < karlp> "just more tcl"
2020-10-29T14:54:08 < mawk> lol
2020-10-29T15:00:55 < qyx> how do you connect VCCdet on a cortex debug connector? do you use a series ressitor?
2020-10-29T15:02:42 < zyp> nah
2020-10-29T15:02:43 < mawk> is that what's called "target VCC" on stlink?
2020-10-29T15:02:50 < mawk> I just connect it straight
2020-10-29T15:02:54 < zyp> same
2020-10-29T15:03:00 < qyx> me too
2020-10-29T15:03:09 < mawk> it's just voltage sense on the stlink side anyway, nothing wrong could happen
2020-10-29T15:03:15 < zyp> I figure in some cases you can use it to supply the target
2020-10-29T15:03:17 < qyx> nothing what?
2020-10-29T15:03:34 < zyp> and in other cases it supplies a voltage translator in the debugger probe
2020-10-29T15:03:46 < mawk> that's two separate pins zyp no?
2020-10-29T15:03:49 < mawk> on the stlink at least
2020-10-29T15:04:11 < qyx> you mean making a fireworks if you accidentally short the debug connector the wrong way if the psu is capable of few amps
2020-10-29T15:04:16 < zyp> there's only one VCC pin in the 10-pin cortex debug connector
2020-10-29T15:04:20 < mawk> lol qyx 
2020-10-29T15:04:30 < mawk> ah yes on target side
2020-10-29T15:11:09 < mawk> high level programming in C http://libcello.org/
2020-10-29T15:24:07 < PaulFertser> mawk: have you tried checking (FLASH->SR & FLASH_FLAG_BSY in between?
2020-10-29T15:24:22 < PaulFertser> mawk: that should be enough I guess, and can be done in Tcl
2020-10-29T15:24:31 < mawk> no, but that's also for eeprom?
2020-10-29T15:24:35 < PaulFertser> mawk: yes
2020-10-29T15:24:41 < mawk> ah I see
2020-10-29T15:26:35 < PaulFertser> busy flag is 0x00000001
2020-10-29T15:27:44 < PaulFertser> flash_sr is at 0x18 offset
2020-10-29T15:28:47 < PaulFertser> 0x40023C00 base for the flash control registers
2020-10-29T15:29:15 < karlp> that's the BSY flag I was talking about mawk 
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2020-10-29T15:43:39 < mawk> yes
2020-10-29T15:43:42 < mawk> thanks
2020-10-29T15:47:49 < mawk> I plugged backwards the 10A supply into the GSM module, and I didn't understand why the short detection was triggering and the supply shutting down
2020-10-29T15:47:54 < mawk> so I added a big cap to bypass the protection
2020-10-29T15:48:01 < mawk> then there was only black smoke
2020-10-29T15:48:42 < PaulFertser> woohoo
2020-10-29T15:51:52 < Steffanx> Lol. Terrorism mawk.
2020-10-29T15:52:02 < Steffanx> Did you scare your colleagues?
2020-10-29T15:52:09 < mawk> I only scared the cat
2020-10-29T15:52:11 < mawk> working from home
2020-10-29T15:52:17 < Steffanx> Ah
2020-10-29T15:52:17 < mawk> I brought all the hardware with me, appartment is a mess now
2020-10-29T15:52:55 < mawk> but this gsm stuff is just me playing, we use NB-IOT for comms at work
2020-10-29T15:59:30 < Steffanx> Are you happy with it yet? And the awesome documentation?
2020-10-29T16:00:06 < mawk> you mean gsm?
2020-10-29T16:00:13 < mawk> awesomestester doc yes
2020-10-29T16:00:47 < mawk> while [expr [mrb 0x40023C18] & 0x1] [puts "lol"]
2020-10-29T16:00:50 < mawk> I'm a tcl pro now
2020-10-29T16:01:06 < PaulFertser> mawk: works?
2020-10-29T16:01:10 < karlp> did it make it work though?
2020-10-29T16:01:22 < mawk> I didn't try it, I was busy making this while expression work
2020-10-29T16:01:52 < mawk> [] is a do-nothing command right? at least it doesn't crash
2020-10-29T16:02:25 < mawk> to make it faster I could load the whole data in a tcl array, then loop in it from tcl, but making an array looks annoying
2020-10-29T16:07:19 < Steffanx> i mean the module you're using mr mawk
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2020-10-29T16:08:16 < mawk> NB-IOT ?
2020-10-29T16:08:20 < mawk> well, it's still AT commands
2020-10-29T16:08:29 < mawk> doesn't look that much different from the gsm one
2020-10-29T16:08:41 < mawk> but it's a cool module
2020-10-29T16:08:49 < mawk> at least docs are good and all timings are specified and so on
2020-10-29T16:08:57 < mawk> don't even have to do flow control stuff
2020-10-29T16:09:05 < mawk> and doesn't need a shitty supercap to send
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2020-10-29T16:09:46 < zyp> haha
2020-10-29T16:10:35 < mawk> apparently we're the first ever customers of Vodafone for their nb-iot network in NL Steffanx 
2020-10-29T16:10:44 < mawk> we had to wait months for them to set up the whole infrastructure
2020-10-29T16:10:52 < Steffanx> What nb-iot module? SIM9000e or something?
2020-10-29T16:10:55 < mawk> and had us sign a million € contract with minimum amount of SIM to buy and stuff
2020-10-29T16:11:00 < mawk> from ublox
2020-10-29T16:11:03 < Steffanx> ah
2020-10-29T16:11:05 < mawk> sara n211, but migrating to n3
2020-10-29T16:11:11 < Steffanx> Yeah, then the docs must be good :P
2020-10-29T16:12:42 < karlp> btle "soc" in dfn8: https://www.eenewsembedded.com/news/tiny-bluetooth-le-soc-needs-no-software-programming?fnid=132878
2020-10-29T16:12:47 < karlp> hope you like onewire
2020-10-29T16:12:58 < karlp> (also, no docs, press release isn't even on the vendors page?)
2020-10-29T16:13:01 < mawk> "software-programming-free" what
2020-10-29T16:13:13 < mawk> they mean, you don't upload your own fw to it like with esp stuff?
2020-10-29T16:13:17 < Steffanx> At least i can park my bicycle in a smart way thanks to you mawk. :)
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2020-10-29T16:13:43 < mawk> he died
2020-10-29T16:13:46 < mawk> ah no
2020-10-29T16:13:47 < mawk> yes Steffanx 
2020-10-29T16:13:49 < karlp> mawk: no, they meann, you actrually just program a serial into them at production time, and they're just beaconing the id.
2020-10-29T16:13:56 < karlp> at least, that's the way I read it.
2020-10-29T16:13:57 < mawk> but these things are just raspberry pis connected to wifi, the nb-iot stuff is something else
2020-10-29T16:14:03 < Steffanx> I died. yes
2020-10-29T16:14:06 < mawk> ah I see
2020-10-29T16:14:22 < mawk> calling that a bt soc is a bit of a stretch then
2020-10-29T16:14:45 < mawk> ah it can publish sensor data over bt as well
2020-10-29T16:14:47 < mawk> slightly more useful
2020-10-29T16:15:01 < karlp> programming then required.
2020-10-29T16:15:09 < karlp> I just thought it was cute putting it in a dfn8.
2020-10-29T16:15:35 < mawk> yeah
2020-10-29T16:15:48 < zyp> how would those ublox modules compare to nrf9160?
2020-10-29T16:15:52 < zyp> looks similar at a glance
2020-10-29T16:16:00 < Steffanx> programming, i have the idea it's more like configuring but.. yes, that might be a form of programming.
2020-10-29T16:16:16 < mawk> Incorporating an Arm Cortex-M33 application processor solely for applications, a full LTE modem, RF Front End (RFFE) and power management system. The nRF9160 is the most compact, complete and energy-efficient cellular IoT solution on the market.
2020-10-29T16:16:18 < mawk> oops
2020-10-29T16:16:26 < mawk> well, the ublox is just a transceiver zyp 
2020-10-29T16:16:30 < mawk> you talk to it from your mcu
2020-10-29T16:16:36 < mawk> at least the one we use
2020-10-29T16:17:01 < zyp> ah, right, so one difference is that the nrf includes a cortex-m for user stuff
2020-10-29T16:17:06 < mawk> good thing I didn't have my favorite porn site in my clipboard when this happened
2020-10-29T16:17:09 < mawk> yeah
2020-10-29T16:18:44 < Steffanx> we all ready know you are into the "boom boom boom" style mawk
2020-10-29T16:18:52 < mawk> lol
2020-10-29T16:19:00 < mawk> 250bpm porn right?
2020-10-29T16:26:43 < Steffanx> i bet
2020-10-29T16:48:33 < Cracki> mawk, https://pbs.twimg.com/media/ElfugUiWkAIhB3y?format=jpg&name=orig
2020-10-29T16:48:59 < mawk> lol
2020-10-29T16:49:06 < mawk> is that a fake
2020-10-29T16:49:22 < mawk> and which massacres exactly lol
2020-10-29T16:49:42 < Streaker> the crusades
2020-10-29T16:50:16 < mawk> lol
2020-10-29T16:50:21 < mawk> do you say this seriously?
2020-10-29T16:51:12 < Streaker> you do not know any muslim people? they justify everything because of the crusades.
2020-10-29T16:51:24 < mawk> here they invoke colonization
2020-10-29T16:53:11 < Cracki> mawk, twitter has removed his tweet for obvious reasons
2020-10-29T16:53:26 < mawk> why? they're not allowed to do that
2020-10-29T16:53:30 < mawk> he's part of the protected category
2020-10-29T16:53:45 < Cracki> sure but his intended victims needn't know his attitude
2020-10-29T16:54:13 < Cracki> that'll only make them perk up and protect themselves, instead of getting "surprised"
2020-10-29T16:54:40 < Cracki> different screenshot https://pbs.twimg.com/media/ElgL606X0AA55cJ?format=png&name=orig
2020-10-29T16:55:44 < Cracki> parent tweet not available https://twitter.com/chedetofficial/status/1321765589728129024
2020-10-29T16:55:48 < Cracki> anyway
2020-10-29T16:56:25 < Cracki> back to 250 bpm porn?
2020-10-29T16:58:50 < karlp> bleh, fired upa  windows vm to test somethign, finished in about 3 minutes.  shut it down agian. it's been doing updates or somethign for maybe 20minutes now :)
2020-10-29T17:00:47 < zyp> wish you could run windows containers without a windows host, no need to do updates for a disposable container
2020-10-29T17:19:17 -!- Cracki [~cracki@unaffiliated/cracki] has quit [Quit: Leaving]
2020-10-29T17:27:19 < mawk> come back cracki
2020-10-29T17:27:23 < mawk> I wanted to show you my 300
2020-10-29T17:27:26 < mawk> I wanted to show you my 300rpm dildo*
2020-10-29T17:29:33 < Steffanx> Send him an email.
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2020-10-29T17:34:19 < mawk> ah good
2020-10-29T17:36:12 < Steffanx> Cracki, mawk was worried. Will you please never do that again
2020-10-29T17:36:17 < mawk> lol
2020-10-29T17:38:34 < Cracki> wut
2020-10-29T17:38:41 -!- Steffanx [~steffanx@unaffiliated/steffanx] has quit [Quit: Whop whop]
2020-10-29T17:39:05 < Cracki> *I* am more worried that both the browser and the owncloud seemingly forgot their credentials
2020-10-29T17:40:33 < Cracki> _and_ that windows apparently loaded my login's desktop before i even logged in
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2020-10-29T17:42:19 < karlp> 15mAh printed battery? sounds rad
2020-10-29T17:54:02 < Steffanx> lol
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2020-10-29T18:07:51 < englishman> Laat me dat Googlen!
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2020-10-29T18:17:57 < Steffanx> That's not google.pl englishman
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2020-10-29T18:25:46 < englishman> steffy the proper word is pollack
2020-10-29T18:26:08 < englishman> when you want to differentiate between pole for a stripper and pole for invading
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2020-10-29T18:29:57 < zyp> pollock
2020-10-29T18:32:46 < Steffanx> So pole it was :P
2020-10-29T18:33:07 < Steffanx> im happy can finally close this "case" 
2020-10-29T18:38:33 < karlp> now zyp's talking about fish though...
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2020-10-29T18:39:43 < zyp> I like fish
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2020-10-29T18:44:04 < karlp> waht do you call pollock in norwegian?
2020-10-29T18:44:10 < karlp> it's ufsi here.
2020-10-29T18:45:57 < zyp> uh, I have to figure out exactly what it refers to then
2020-10-29T18:48:06 < Steffanx> I think we just use the usual dutch word "pool"  or maybe "polak"
2020-10-29T18:48:43 < Steffanx> Not for the fish ofcourse;)
2020-10-29T18:49:03 < Steffanx> That would be a pollak.
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2020-10-29T18:51:36 < zyp> sei, apparently
2020-10-29T18:52:00 < zyp> or lyr
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2020-10-29T18:52:44 < zyp> according to wikipedia, sei=ufsi and lyr=lýr
2020-10-29T18:53:41 < Cracki> so... are there poles in the cabin and the girl's leg somehow smashed against one?
2020-10-29T18:54:16 < Cracki> or did she wrap her leg between those tubes and when it stopped she was thrown around with the leg stuck?
2020-10-29T18:54:32 < Cracki> the issue isn't with the poles but how that has anything to do with her leg
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2020-10-29T19:04:58 < Steffanx> When your body keep moving forward while your leg cant really move it will snap eventually cracki...
2020-10-29T19:06:38 < Steffanx> Keeps*
2020-10-29T19:06:58 < Steffanx> But whatever. Not important 
2020-10-29T19:07:05 < Cracki> did you like her?
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2020-10-29T19:12:40 < Steffanx> That's irrelevant
2020-10-29T19:17:37 < mawk> don't brush it off too fast Steffanx 
2020-10-29T19:17:42 < mawk> mr Freud said sex is relevant to everything
2020-10-29T19:17:45 < mawk> did you like her??
2020-10-29T19:19:48 < Steffanx> That's irrelevant 
2020-10-29T19:21:05 < mawk> are you insulting our master sigmund?
2020-10-29T19:27:35 < antto> aww karlp, if u wanna shut crapdows down, don't use the "shutdown" option.. use the "restart" one ;P~
2020-10-29T19:29:57 < Steffanx> except that the button turns into "update and restart" or something
2020-10-29T19:30:16 < antto> yeah, f*ck that sh*t and install linux
2020-10-29T19:31:00 < antto> open ur heart for teh GNU
2020-10-29T19:32:04 < Steffanx> are you alright antto?
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2020-10-29T19:57:27 < antto> Steffanx, i feel like https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xFpW8Iaidbc
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2020-10-29T20:27:07 < Steffanx> i feel sorry for you
2020-10-29T20:30:19 < antto> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DegFKyW1zvY
2020-10-29T20:33:27 < englishman> I had a dream about a cat that died 14 years ago
2020-10-29T20:33:47 < englishman> hadn't thought about that cat in years
2020-10-29T20:33:53 < englishman> the brain is a funny thing
2020-10-29T20:34:43 < englishman> or maybe it was reaching out from the beyond for affection and play
2020-10-29T20:34:52 < englishman> who are we to know which
2020-10-29T20:37:44 < mawk> lol nonsense
2020-10-29T20:50:50 < upgrdman> englishman was dreaming about 14 year old pussy... good to know
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2020-10-29T21:08:01 < Steffanx> 14 dead pussy. Who know how old she was, upgrdman 
2020-10-29T21:08:16 < upgrdman> true
2020-10-29T21:08:23 < upgrdman> every worse 0_0
2020-10-29T21:09:40 < Steffanx> englishman: dreams are a funny thing indeed. I have this dream that shows up in a dream like once/5 year
2020-10-29T21:10:20 < upgrdman> does it also involve dead pussy>
2020-10-29T21:10:26 < Steffanx> A huuuge old minolta camera. Im still not sure why.
2020-10-29T21:10:31 < upgrdman> lol
2020-10-29T21:10:47 < upgrdman> i have an old minolta srt 100 (i think) somewhere in my closet
2020-10-29T21:11:02 < upgrdman> srt 101
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2020-10-29T21:11:43 < Steffanx> Vintage slr. But for some reason its huuuge with a like a 75cm lens and body of about the same size -_-
2020-10-29T21:12:07 < upgrdman> cool dreams bro
2020-10-29T21:12:50 < Steffanx> Yeah i know right
2020-10-29T21:13:08 < Steffanx> So whats up in upgrdmanland?
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2020-10-29T21:15:17 < upgrdman> a few days ago i finished designed a PCB for a new x-ray generator. basically, a 200kV 1mA power supply + RS232 for control.
2020-10-29T21:15:29 < upgrdman> and now im playing around with improvements to TelemetryViewer
2020-10-29T21:15:55 < upgrdman> can now parse/display 5Gbps of telemetry. pretty happy with that.
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2020-10-29T21:18:30 < upgrdman> im reading up on test frameworks for java. time to up my game and catch more bugs before releases ;)
2020-10-29T21:37:42 < upgrdman> it amazing how much better modern intel gpus are. my 20 watt i7 from 2018 has a MUCH better gpu than my 91W i7 from 2015.
2020-10-29T21:38:40 < upgrdman> put my gtx1080 on ebay, so using integrated graphics for a while until the rtx3080's are available... my i7-6700K struggles with 4K video playback and spins the fan up to 100%
2020-10-29T21:46:44 < Steffanx> Why sell your stuff before you have new stuff?
2020-10-29T21:48:14 < Thorn> ##moneyedwesterners32
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2020-10-29T21:49:13 < Steffanx> No a moneyed westener would buy a new one and maybe sell the old one
2020-10-29T21:51:22 < upgrdman> Steffanx, the longer i wait, the less the gtx1080 will be worth
2020-10-29T21:51:28 < upgrdman> more people will be offloading theirs
2020-10-29T21:51:39 < upgrdman> and i dont really need it, so might as well sell it
2020-10-29T21:52:07 < upgrdman> when the rtx3080's are well stocked, everyone will be upgrd'ing and offloads their old shit on ebay
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2020-10-29T22:04:36 < Laurenceb> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9VyYNuZnIac
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2020-10-29T22:10:20 < Cracki> I'd sell a gpu now rather than later. prices will only drop. best sell now to people who can't wait to buy a used one, than later when all the used ones go on the market.
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2020-10-29T22:10:59 < Cracki> yeah what he said
2020-10-29T22:12:28 < Cracki> a i7-6700K should be good to decode 4K in software. my old xeon e3-1230 is a few years older but also 4c/8t and ffmpeg can do 4k50 on it.
2020-10-29T22:17:20 < Cracki> the skylake igpu claims H.264 4K60 hw decode so...
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2020-10-29T22:38:15 < upgrdman> Cracki, it can decode some 4k youtube videos, but others it stutters a lot. seems to depend on the bitrate. the higher-quality 4k videos stutter
2020-10-29T22:38:29 < Cracki> youtube does a lot of vp9
2020-10-29T22:38:44 < upgrdman> k
2020-10-29T22:38:46 < Cracki> I think that cpu can do vp9 decode but dunno resolution
2020-10-29T22:39:27 < upgrdman> im kinda butthurt that my cpu/mobo can only do 31GBps of memory bandwidth... didn't realize memory would ever be a bottleneck until now.
2020-10-29T22:39:42 < Cracki> heh
2020-10-29T22:39:51 < upgrdman> but not sure i want to blow a bunch of money on a whole new setup
2020-10-29T22:40:45 < Thorn> as for me I'm pretty amazed that the board I'm designing will have later gen RAM than my home server (ddr3 vs ddr2)
2020-10-29T22:40:49 < kakinerd> is 31GBps a problem?
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2020-10-29T22:43:20 < upgrdman> kakinerd, well i have just enough memory bandwidth to process usb3 telemetry, but not much extra headroom.
2020-10-29T22:44:32 < kakinerd> hmm should check my bandwidths
2020-10-29T22:45:59 < qyx> Thorn: hows your mp1 board?
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2020-10-29T23:45:02 < kakinerd> musics!
2020-10-29T23:45:57 < karlp> yes please
2020-10-29T23:46:28 < kakinerd> gimme musics
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--- Day changed Fri Oct 30 2020
2020-10-30T00:06:47 < Steffanx> No.
2020-10-30T00:07:15 < qyx> wtf
2020-10-30T00:07:20 < qyx> https://i.imgur.com/93x0Syy.png
2020-10-30T00:07:40 < qyx> I replaced a chink 868 MHz antenna with a SMA + 86 mm wire
2020-10-30T00:08:02 < qyx> nearly 30 dB in RSSI
2020-10-30T00:08:14 -!- fenugrec_ [~fenugrec@97.107.220.18] has quit [Ping timeout: 268 seconds]
2020-10-30T00:08:25 < qyx> the same device, same setup, same software
2020-10-30T00:08:37 < qyx> the same network and placement of the device
2020-10-30T00:09:07 < Thorn> is that noise floor when no signal is being received?
2020-10-30T00:09:54 < qyx> idk what is it exactly, I see the same as you
2020-10-30T00:10:10 < qyx> but if RSSI is signal-to-noise, then it increased by 40dB
2020-10-30T00:10:12 < qyx> *30dB
2020-10-30T00:10:32 < qyx> also fuk that https://physics.nist.gov/cuu/Units/checklist.html link from the topic
2020-10-30T00:10:46 < qyx> it is BrainDamaged to write 4.5 V, 2.5 A
2020-10-30T00:10:49 < qyx> 3 dBm
2020-10-30T00:10:59 < qyx> there sall be no space
2020-10-30T00:12:34 < Cracki> rssi is commonly dBm, i.e. power
2020-10-30T00:12:37 < Cracki> doesn't say what the noise is
2020-10-30T00:13:41 < Cracki> it's a meaningful figure because rssi below what the receiver can handle is worthless
2020-10-30T00:13:48 < Cracki> so at least you have gained more potential range
2020-10-30T00:14:50 < qyx> I guess so, it is received by 10x more gateways now
2020-10-30T00:15:18 < Cracki> lorasnr column needs units too. looks like that improved "by 2-3"
2020-10-30T00:15:34 < qyx> it is what the provider gave me
2020-10-30T00:15:41 < Cracki> fcnt?
2020-10-30T00:15:54 < Cracki> ~3 orders fewer f...aults?
2020-10-30T00:15:55 < qyx> thats packet counter
2020-10-30T00:16:08 < Cracki> ic
2020-10-30T00:18:39 < zyp> qyx, you should test the original antenna on a VNA, maybe it's not a 868 MHz antenna at all :p
2020-10-30T00:20:24 < Thorn> wait a second so that RSSI is not at your station but some remote station?
2020-10-30T00:21:01 < Thorn> I'm even more confused
2020-10-30T00:23:54 < Cracki> that's what I understand as well
2020-10-30T00:25:46 < Thorn> next question: you can measure RSSI either while the  air is clear or while a transmission is in progress
2020-10-30T00:25:51 < Thorn> so which one is it
2020-10-30T00:26:27 < Thorn> I assume if it pertains to you it was measured while your station was transmitting
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2020-10-30T00:27:24 < Thorn> oh OK I see it' in reverse order, most recent records on top
2020-10-30T00:27:32 < zyp> screenshot looks like a list of packets (since there's a data field), so I assume that's the RSSI each packet was received at
2020-10-30T00:27:35 < Thorn> so your station got 30dB louder
2020-10-30T00:27:46 < Thorn> that would make sense
2020-10-30T00:32:17 < Steffanx> Channel rules, qyx.
2020-10-30T00:35:08 < kakinerd> which language to learn?
2020-10-30T00:36:22 < Cracki> deutsch
2020-10-30T00:36:43 < Cracki> when you know one imperative language, you know them all
2020-10-30T00:38:52 < Thorn> kakinerd scala is dead, learn kotlin
2020-10-30T00:39:13 < kakinerd> Cracki: french maybe?
2020-10-30T00:40:06 < Cracki> dead languages, latin maybe
2020-10-30T00:40:37 < kakinerd> Thorn: how about java?
2020-10-30T00:41:12 < Thorn> kotlin is better java
2020-10-30T00:41:15 < Cracki> I think the best to advise on java would be upgrdman. his telemetry thing is all java and he's whining about his computer's memory bandwidth
2020-10-30T00:41:22 < Cracki> *advice
2020-10-30T00:41:28 < Cracki> *advise
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2020-10-30T00:53:24 < englishman> people of the world: what is your favourite way to crush garlic?
2020-10-30T00:53:46 < englishman> I have this plastic thing shaped like a garlic bulb that you twist around
2020-10-30T00:53:51 < mawk> inside a garlic crusher
2020-10-30T00:53:59 < mawk> let me show
2020-10-30T00:54:16 < fenugrec> englishman, split in half, then flat side of knife against cutting board
2020-10-30T00:54:24 < mawk> englishman: https://images-na.ssl-images-amazon.com/images/I/61BFawRypgL._AC_SL1200_.jpg
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2020-10-30T00:54:33 < mawk> remove skin first tho
2020-10-30T00:54:50 < mawk> like fenugrec said, hit it with flat side then the skin is loosened and stuff
2020-10-30T00:54:55 < englishman> I use those crushers but they are hard to clean
2020-10-30T00:55:04 < mawk> maybe yours is?
2020-10-30T00:55:10 < englishman> to get the skin off I hit it with a hammer
2020-10-30T00:55:14 < mawk> mine is easy to clean, I just remove the basket
2020-10-30T00:55:21 < fenugrec> for more than 2-3 cloves, skin em with 2 bowls : https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Dc7w_PGSt9Y
2020-10-30T00:55:41 < mawk> then run some water, and with finger I remove the hard bits, doesn't have to be cleaned with soap or stuff, garlic isn't sweet nor greasy
2020-10-30T00:56:00 < englishman> the basket comes off?
2020-10-30T00:56:11 < Thorn> https://images.ru.prom.st/610663807_w500_h500_chesnokodavka.jpg
2020-10-30T00:56:42 < mawk> yes englishman 
2020-10-30T00:56:55 < mawk> old school þ
2020-10-30T00:57:20 < Thorn> mine is from soviet times
2020-10-30T00:57:28 < mawk> looks like it yes
2020-10-30T00:57:59 < Thorn> I didn't know they were still sold
2020-10-30T00:58:27 < qyx> zyp Thorn exactly
2020-10-30T00:58:38 < qyx> Steffanx: I am sorry
2020-10-30T00:59:31 < englishman> it seems the garlic press is well known throughout
2020-10-30T00:59:42 < Steffanx> I dont use garlic. Easy solution 
2020-10-30T00:59:42 < englishman> https://www.amazon.ca/Garlic-Chop-Chopper-Lime-Green/dp/B00K3PI8CY/
2020-10-30T00:59:45 < englishman> this is mine
2020-10-30T01:00:02 < Steffanx> I hate garlic 
2020-10-30T01:00:51 < englishman> I made a little pierogi sauce with so much garlic the other day it was mostly crunchy garlic. very nice
2020-10-30T01:01:28 < mawk> get one with removable basket then
2020-10-30T01:01:31 < mawk> and easy to clean
2020-10-30T01:01:33 < Steffanx> Have garlic in the oven and the entire house gets awfully smelly
2020-10-30T01:03:11 < englishman> fenugrec: that's amazing. going to try
2020-10-30T01:04:49 < zyp> englishman, I just buy dried chopped garlic
2020-10-30T01:05:18 < englishman> why do you prefer it over fresh?
2020-10-30T01:05:25 < zyp> convenience
2020-10-30T01:05:45 < fenugrec> I've been growing garlic for a few years now. Once dried they last a full year
2020-10-30T01:05:48 < englishman> I agree with that
2020-10-30T01:05:49 < mawk> it doesn't taste as good, zyp 
2020-10-30T01:05:53 < mawk> needs to be fresh
2020-10-30T01:05:59 < englishman> we also dry it and put it in a grinder
2020-10-30T01:06:14 < mawk> noooooooo
2020-10-30T01:06:20 < zyp> https://www.santamariaworld.com/optimized/share/globalassets/foodservice/products/eagle/101208.png <- I got this sort of stuff except in a glass
2020-10-30T01:06:37 < englishman> fenugrec: did you have a good year? the garlic here made only 1 or 2 cloves per bulb which ruined the replanting ratio
2020-10-30T01:06:54 < zyp> also have it in a grinder
2020-10-30T01:07:06 < fenugrec> englishman, wtf, same happened here. HUGE cloves though
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2020-10-30T01:07:28 < fenugrec> I wanted to plant 80-100 but could only plant about 50
2020-10-30T01:08:00 < zyp> what sort of conditions do you need to grow garlic?
2020-10-30T01:08:51 < fenugrec> sun + water
2020-10-30T01:09:40 < fenugrec> it grows fine in the frozen wastelands of eastern canadia, depending on variety I guess
2020-10-30T01:10:47 < Cracki> Québécois icicle vampire
2020-10-30T01:10:59 < mawk> icicle
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2020-10-30T01:11:07 < mawk> bicyclette
2020-10-30T01:11:17 < Cracki> velo-ciraptor
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2020-10-30T01:11:57 < Cracki> https://i.pinimg.com/originals/b3/d9/d4/b3d9d45a6a955798d63d8abf6d8ddc3e.jpg
2020-10-30T01:12:02 < englishman> yeah huge cloves
2020-10-30T01:17:29 < fenugrec> https://ibb.co/YhWg7vr
2020-10-30T01:18:22 < englishman> fenugrec: what I heard was that it was early heavy rains, followed by the drought
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2020-10-30T01:19:39 < fenugrec> interesting. I thought I had done something wrong, i.e. nothing, because they take care of themselves usually
2020-10-30T01:21:35 < englishman> thank you international people for talking about garlic with me
2020-10-30T01:24:34 < fenugrec> garlic is so international
2020-10-30T01:27:30 < englishman> yes and I put too much in the risotto
2020-10-30T01:27:51 < englishman> now that I'm almost done I should read the recipe
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2020-10-30T02:21:10 < emeb_mac> jesus fuck - WTH is wrong with the Digi-Key website? Last two days its been like trying to swim through molasses.
2020-10-30T02:21:32 < emeb_mac> page loads take minutes and sometimes don't ever come back.
2020-10-30T02:22:20 < fenugrec> mouser has been like that for a hwlie
2020-10-30T02:22:23 < fenugrec> while
2020-10-30T02:22:46 < emeb_mac> hmm... mouser is pretty responsive for me.
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2020-10-30T02:30:02 < ds2> digikey's new web design is a POS
2020-10-30T02:32:12 < karlp> englishman: that green spinny grinder thing looks like some stoners went into kitchen gear
2020-10-30T02:32:24 < karlp> I've got one just like mawk's first link.
2020-10-30T02:32:39 < karlp> honestly, I'd like a bigger basket
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2020-10-30T03:53:48 < englishman> that's why i like the stoner spinny thing, you can fit a lot in there
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2020-10-30T10:42:10 < Thorn> has anyone used the nRF52840 dongle? does it have out of the box firmware that can support any service when the dongle is used as an interface for PC software?
2020-10-30T10:45:01 < Steffanx> Yes. Idk ;)
2020-10-30T11:09:46 < mawk> yes Thorn 
2020-10-30T11:10:13 < mawk> well there is an out of the box bootloader on it you can use from the pc with the easy app to program it
2020-10-30T11:10:32 < mawk> and they also provide a firmware to flash to it to be used as an interface like you say
2020-10-30T11:10:53 < mawk> so at no point you need a probe to program it
2020-10-30T11:10:59 < mawk> unless you fuck up its bootloader then you need it
2020-10-30T11:11:14 < mawk> but you can solder a few pins and you have the SWD interface
2020-10-30T11:11:28 < mawk> there is also a tagconnect port if you have one cable
2020-10-30T11:15:47 < Thorn> the main question is how much programming it's going to take to support what I need from it
2020-10-30T11:19:15 < karlp> there's the stm32wb dongle too... (also no idea what it does)
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2020-10-30T14:04:49 < mawk> what do you want to use it for Thorn ? bluetooth?
2020-10-30T14:04:56 < mawk> nrf24l01+ protocol?
2020-10-30T14:05:00 < mawk> or even 802.15.4
2020-10-30T14:05:19 < Thorn> BLE, the peripheral will be nrf52832 based
2020-10-30T14:05:29 < mawk> well I think you can do it yes
2020-10-30T14:05:53 < mawk> they have a nice BLE analyzer gui shit, and probably provide a uart or some easy protocol to talk to dongle
2020-10-30T14:06:35 < mawk> but the dongle is a development kit, it's ugly and flimsy
2020-10-30T14:06:43 < mawk> it's just a pcb with 4 tracks to make usb contact
2020-10-30T14:06:47 < mawk> you could design a case for it though
2020-10-30T14:07:12 < mawk> or just use their schematic to make your own without all the debug port stuff
2020-10-30T14:12:42 < mawk> Thorn: https://fr.aliexpress.com/item/32950640108.html
2020-10-30T14:12:58 < mawk> you can use the exact same software as the dongle
2020-10-30T14:13:00 < mawk> but then it's not ugly
2020-10-30T14:13:05 < mawk> and cheaper probably
2020-10-30T14:16:25 < Thorn> so there's no out of the box firmware for this dongle that implements some kind of BLE API for PC apps?
2020-10-30T14:19:11 < mawk> I didn't say that
2020-10-30T14:19:28 < mawk> I said there an out of the box firmware that implements some kind of BLE communication between the dongle and nRF's own applications
2020-10-30T14:19:35 < mawk> now you just need to know if they have specs for it
2020-10-30T14:19:38 < mawk> but probably
2020-10-30T14:20:09 < mawk> see they have RSSI applications and so on, to run on your pc; that's probably using this protocol thing
2020-10-30T14:21:40 < mawk> they say they use a serial port for it
2020-10-30T14:22:12 < Steffanx> oh, thats a nice module mawk
2020-10-30T14:24:39 < mawk> but the serial port stuff doesn't look documented so I don't know
2020-10-30T14:24:42 < mawk> yes Steffanx 
2020-10-30T14:24:45 < Thorn> all the apps seem to be js/react lol
2020-10-30T14:24:54 < Steffanx> Does it bootload my new firmware mawk?
2020-10-30T14:24:54 < mawk> yeah
2020-10-30T14:25:03 < mawk> of course
2020-10-30T14:25:11 < mawk> I bought from this seller already Steffanx 
2020-10-30T14:25:17 < mawk> they gave a business card with it
2020-10-30T14:25:25 < mawk> so apparently their main target audience is smart dildo makers
2020-10-30T14:25:30 < Steffanx> haha
2020-10-30T14:25:38 < mawk> they wrote "holyIOT - smart sexy vibrators" on the card
2020-10-30T14:25:43 < mawk> I still have it somewhere
2020-10-30T14:27:17 < Thorn> do they have open source PC software for dildo control
2020-10-30T14:27:48 < Steffanx> http://www.holyiot.com/eacpzs.asp?dlb_id=29 there you go
2020-10-30T14:28:13 < Thorn> https://devzone.nordicsemi.com/f/nordic-q-a/37501/nrf52840-dongle-programming-for-windows
2020-10-30T14:28:31 < Thorn> >connectivity firmware (ser_s140_usb_hci)
2020-10-30T14:28:56 < Thorn> >serialization API
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2020-10-30T14:35:52 < Thorn> more up to date https://github.com/NordicSemiconductor/pc-ble-driver/
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2020-10-30T14:46:13 < Steffanx> You really browse aliexpress in french mawk?
2020-10-30T14:52:16 < Thorn> Russian aliexpress is horrible ("a nest for girls" instead of "female socket", etc.) and it keeps switching back to Russian after I change the language 
2020-10-30T14:52:52 < mawk> yes Steffanx 
2020-10-30T14:52:54 < mawk> lol
2020-10-30T14:52:57 < mawk> it's a bit like for Thorn 
2020-10-30T14:53:05 < mawk> they did very shitty translations
2020-10-30T14:53:47 < mawk> ah yes so you found the right thing Thorn then good
2020-10-30T14:54:18 < Steffanx> I bet they would translate a "mold" to the wrong type of mold as well Thorn
2020-10-30T14:54:46 < Steffanx> to the fungus  type mold.
2020-10-30T14:56:08 < Thorn> or welding meaning soldering (a well known Chinese thing, only one word in the language for both)
2020-10-30T14:56:11 < mawk> they translate "pieces" by "morceaux" which means like pieces of 1 object itself
2020-10-30T14:56:25 < mawk> ie they translate "pieces" to "shreds"
2020-10-30T14:56:40 < mawk> in french too, souder
2020-10-30T14:56:50 < mawk> same word for both
2020-10-30T14:56:51 < mawk> well we have "braser" but nobody uses that
2020-10-30T15:02:40 < karlp> not even for brazing?
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2020-10-30T15:06:47 < mawk> probably some old people use it
2020-10-30T15:07:43 < mawk> in my code there's a eeprom_t struct that describes the whole of eeprom structure, and it's full of weird patterns like union { struct { /*...*/}; char padding[50]; } to ensure specific size for eeprom regions
2020-10-30T15:08:02 < mawk> or union { struct { uint8_t foo : 4; uint8_t bar : 4; }; uint8_t mybitfield; } for bitfields
2020-10-30T15:08:30 < mawk> and this code is supposed to be the reference of how the eeprom looks, because a bunch of other pieces of the stack depend on it, even php stuff for over the air eeprom update
2020-10-30T15:08:47 < mawk> so I made a C parser to parse this eeprom_t type and unfold all the crazy patterns, then produce a clean json description of the eeprom layout
2020-10-30T15:09:01 < mawk> in barely 140 lines of python
2020-10-30T15:10:27 < mawk> input: https://paste.serveur.io/ogCI97gh.c output: https://paste.serveur.io/raw/ZpBUctmm.txt
2020-10-30T15:10:57 < mawk> but since I'm not employed to write C parsers I cannot really tell colleagues lol
2020-10-30T15:11:49 < Thorn> quality musics https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NyfL9LC1DC4
2020-10-30T15:13:07 < Steffanx> i like the retro 80s style, but .. this horror style is awful Thorn
2020-10-30T15:13:22 < mawk> parser code: https://paste.serveur.io/BuVvcunw.py
2020-10-30T15:13:36 < Thorn> so John Carpenter is awful too?
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2020-10-30T15:15:49 < Steffanx> maybe good for movie music, but not to randomly listen to while i try to work
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2020-10-30T15:19:37 < Thorn> next to French embassy in Moscow, today https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EWQbLdcRy4g
2020-10-30T15:19:44 < mawk> yes
2020-10-30T15:19:47 < mawk> moscow is full of islamists
2020-10-30T15:19:50 < mawk> apparently
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2020-10-30T15:23:06 < Cracki> that close contact will spread the deadly killervirus
2020-10-30T15:23:17 < Thorn> live https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qc1uw2x73G0
2020-10-30T15:23:26 < Cracki> decapitations live?
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2020-10-30T15:27:19 < Thorn> Cracki only portraits, for now
2020-10-30T15:28:53 < Cracki> absolutely wild. they take caricatures as justification for murder and terror. be that as it may, but then people *agree* with that "reasoning" and want them to live among us.
2020-10-30T15:30:08 < Cracki> since calling for beheadings in response to insults seems to be permissible these days...
2020-10-30T15:30:28 < Thorn> at least they're being arrested
2020-10-30T15:30:30 < Cracki> s/calling for //
2020-10-30T15:30:35 < Cracki> lol
2020-10-30T15:30:38 < Thorn> for now
2020-10-30T15:30:56 < Streaker> they look like protesters?
2020-10-30T15:31:34 < Cracki> I'm gonna dress up as "protester" this halloween with a huge machete (in minecraft)
2020-10-30T15:32:10 < Cracki> people probably won't find that spooky enough :(
2020-10-30T15:37:02 < Steffanx> Im always a bit surprised there are so many in russia. i expected russia to be more strict
2020-10-30T15:37:06 < mawk> макрон респект
2020-10-30T15:37:46 < Steffanx> Da da
2020-10-30T15:37:49 < Steffanx> temka vrag
2020-10-30T15:38:09 < mawk> vraag?
2020-10-30T15:38:28 < Steffanx> No apparently it means there is an enemy in the dark room.
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2020-10-30T15:38:58 < Steffanx> or maybe more like: dark room enemy
2020-10-30T15:39:16 < mawk> a dark enemy in the room
2020-10-30T15:39:19 < mawk> ?
2020-10-30T15:39:27 < Steffanx> no
2020-10-30T15:39:35 < mawk> lichte tint
2020-10-30T15:39:41 < mawk> like in opsopring verzocht
2020-10-30T15:39:44 < mawk> suspect: licthe tint
2020-10-30T15:40:11 < mawk> licthe taan ?
2020-10-30T15:40:14 < mawk> how do they say
2020-10-30T15:40:19 < Steffanx> враг
2020-10-30T15:40:31 < mawk> vrag
2020-10-30T15:40:45 < Steffanx> lichtgetint
2020-10-30T15:40:58 < mawk> ah
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2020-10-30T16:12:23 < benishor> https://twitter.com/dogryan100/status/1321800383505657856
2020-10-30T16:17:23 < Thorn> mawk why aren't you in telegram, I could forward some fascinating news to you there
2020-10-30T16:17:38 < mawk> of course I'm on telegram
2020-10-30T16:17:41 < mawk> that's where all the nazis are
2020-10-30T16:19:46 < benishor> telegram = fsb, whatsapp = cia, viber = mossad
2020-10-30T16:19:51 < benishor> pick your poison
2020-10-30T16:20:05 < jpa-> why would you use any of them?
2020-10-30T16:20:18 < benishor> because convenience
2020-10-30T16:20:37 < benishor> I use whatsapp for instance because it's really easy to get it going with people in your address book
2020-10-30T16:20:54 < benishor> and MMS' suck big fat cock
2020-10-30T16:21:08 < qyx> irc is super convenient
2020-10-30T16:22:00 < jpa-> not communicating with people is very convenient
2020-10-30T16:22:38 < mawk> what about RCS benishor ?
2020-10-30T16:22:47 < mawk> the new thing google is pushing
2020-10-30T16:22:52 < mawk> I have it on my phone, it's pretty cool
2020-10-30T16:26:37 < PaulFertser> benishor: why whatsapp and not telegram or signal?
2020-10-30T16:27:29 < benishor> mawk: dunno about rcs
2020-10-30T16:27:47 < benishor> PaulFertser: because whatsapp came first
2020-10-30T16:28:00 < benishor> and had this revolutionary idea of finding your contacts without adding them
2020-10-30T16:28:04 < benishor> and because telegram is russian ofc
2020-10-30T16:28:33 < benishor> I'm a bit confused about whose bitch I want to be
2020-10-30T16:28:38 < karlp> I just liked whatsapp because the user experience was just better.
2020-10-30T16:28:44 < karlp> and video calls actually worked,
2020-10-30T16:28:59 < benishor> yeah, it's pretty cool
2020-10-30T16:29:00 < karlp> combined the right bits of snapchat 
2020-10-30T16:29:24 < benishor> no bells nor whistles but has only what you need
2020-10-30T16:29:28 < PaulFertser> I have an impression whatsapp is awful. And it doesn't even allow using multiple devices.
2020-10-30T16:29:56 < PaulFertser> benishor: telegram is not russian, and it was even "blocked" in russia for a year or so.
2020-10-30T16:30:05 < benishor> https://gadgets.ndtv.com/apps/news/whatsapp-multiple-device-linked-devices-feature-final-testing-beta-users-2298683
2020-10-30T16:30:32 < benishor> PaulFertser: sure, and Pavel Durov is not russian
2020-10-30T16:30:44 < karlp> PaulFertser: I only use whatsapp on my phone, so the "multi user" thing is irrelevant.
2020-10-30T16:30:54 < karlp> telegram on desktop is meh interface 
2020-10-30T16:31:01 < karlp> I'm only using that for some of you guys.
2020-10-30T16:31:05 < karlp> never tried it on a phone.
2020-10-30T16:31:16 < qyx> benishor: if you mean the name is russian, it may as well be even cz, sk, ua
2020-10-30T16:31:29 < karlp> signal ui is meh as well, and only contacts on signal are security nerds
2020-10-30T16:31:29 < qyx> but idk who is he
2020-10-30T16:31:56 < PaulFertser> benishor: he was born in russia but it doesn't mean he's serving russian fsb or anything like that.
2020-10-30T16:31:57 < karlp> nationalism determining app selection is crazy, like the app operator gives a shit about you.
2020-10-30T16:32:18 < PaulFertser> He's not living in russia for years
2020-10-30T16:34:26 < mawk> signal is pretty cool
2020-10-30T16:35:11 < karlp> it
2020-10-30T16:35:18 < karlp> s just like smss, only with more feelgoody?
2020-10-30T16:35:24 < mawk> signal?
2020-10-30T16:35:28 < mawk> it's with security
2020-10-30T16:35:29 < karlp> and insanely "secure" methods of getting the media shit back out
2020-10-30T16:35:40 < karlp> yes, but for "everybody should just use signal" it's fucking trash
2020-10-30T16:35:50 < karlp> I got sent some photos in signal
2020-10-30T16:35:58 < karlp> and it was endless fucking hoops to get them back out again
2020-10-30T16:36:27 < benishor> I only use whatsapp, I don't see the point in having more than one IM
2020-10-30T16:37:09 < benishor> I specifically use whatsapp for one thing only and that is send media content to people in my phone address book
2020-10-30T16:37:11 < karlp> it's purely to get all the contacts you need
2020-10-30T16:37:17 < benishor> for everything else I have irc and slack 
2020-10-30T16:37:50 < benishor> not to mention email, forums and so on
2020-10-30T16:40:31 < karlp> fucking french ali links, 
2020-10-30T16:40:34  * karlp glares at mawk
2020-10-30T16:40:49 < PaulFertser> I just learnt a rather funny question for EE job interview. You ask a candidate what are the most essential properties of an opamp. Apparently surprisingly many answer "the gain".
2020-10-30T16:41:34 < mawk> lol
2020-10-30T16:41:37 < Thorn> well if it didn't have any gain it wouldn't be useful, would it
2020-10-30T16:42:02 < mawk> maybe they mean open loop gain
2020-10-30T16:42:19 < Cracki> the gain, how about gain bw product
2020-10-30T16:42:24 < Cracki> how about noise figures
2020-10-30T16:42:54 < Cracki> the gain, that's like "what's the most essential property of a computer" "that it turns on"
2020-10-30T16:43:03 < Steffanx> Whats the requirement of the product? :P
2020-10-30T16:43:14 < qyx> to be sold.
2020-10-30T16:43:15 < Cracki> what's the most essential property of a job application? a pulse!
2020-10-30T16:43:27 < Cracki> zombies reeeing
2020-10-30T16:43:50 < Steffanx> It's all about the context what's most essential.
2020-10-30T16:44:08 < Cracki> *applicant
2020-10-30T16:44:09 < Steffanx> if you just want some random components on the board to make it look weird, then no gain works too,
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2020-10-30T16:45:17 < Steffanx> Can your brain even deal with such open question, PaulFertser?
2020-10-30T16:46:13 < PaulFertser> mawk: yes, the open loop gain, and most often than not it doesn't matter for practical applications.
2020-10-30T16:46:39 < mawk> unless you are an utilitarian EE
2020-10-30T16:46:45 < mawk> and you absolutely want to maximize something
2020-10-30T16:47:42 < Steffanx> Also you asked for properties. Open loop gain is just one :P
2020-10-30T16:47:42 < benishor> it's not like you use too many opamps in open loop
2020-10-30T16:47:57 < benishor> for that particular case there are comparators
2020-10-30T16:47:59 < PaulFertser> Steffanx: we all know that opamps are usually used with rather limited gain, on the orders of multitude lower than the open gain, right? So the maximum possible gain isn't really an essential trait. 
2020-10-30T16:48:55 < Streaker> how will you know bandwidth  if you don't know gain
2020-10-30T16:54:57 < PaulFertser> I guess you're supposed to talk about the gain-bandwidth product as the essential feature then.
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2020-10-30T17:00:04 < qyx> what about the supply voltage!
2020-10-30T17:00:45 < mawk> not essential sorry
2020-10-30T17:03:26 < PaulFertser> So do you consider this question to be a bad one for disqualifying those who do not know EE at all?
2020-10-30T17:06:26  * karlp hasn't used an op-amp since university....
2020-10-30T17:06:53 < jpa-> PaulFertser: well, the gain is what makes an opamp an opamp, otherwise it is just an amplifier and requires a bit different design for the surrounding circuit
2020-10-30T17:07:34 < jpa-> PaulFertser: what would you consider more essential?
2020-10-30T17:07:40 < PaulFertser> jpa-: but the typical answer is that the open loop gain value is what has to be considered first when choosing an opamp.
2020-10-30T17:08:06 < Cracki> it's a fine question, if it's treated as a discussion and not a check box checker
2020-10-30T17:08:11 < jpa-> ok, so now you changed the question to "What needs to be considered first when choosing an opamp", where the obvious answer is "the application"
2020-10-30T17:08:45 < PaulFertser> Of course it's supposed to be a question to get a wider picture during a discussion.
2020-10-30T17:09:01 < jpa-> but the properties you choose when selecting ignores the properties that are essential and implied for every opamp
2020-10-30T17:09:05 < Cracki> amplifier implies amplification, i.e. gain. "amplifier" is an euphemism for buffer/power stage
2020-10-30T17:09:29 < jpa-> like, "What is the most essential property of an electrical cable?" "That it conducts electricity."
2020-10-30T17:10:16 < Streaker> see, now I would answer that as: that it insulates. (keeps the electricity where it belongs)
2020-10-30T17:10:33 < jpa-> Streaker: yeah, and that is also a good answer
2020-10-30T17:10:44 < Cracki> I hate top-1 questions that shouldn't be. you have to guess the questioner's priorities, which may be random
2020-10-30T17:10:52 < jpa-> but if one then changes the question to "What should be considered when selecting a cable?" the answers are entirely different
2020-10-30T17:11:45 < Cracki> mains voltage, buried HV, RF signals, strangling someone, ...
2020-10-30T17:12:15 < PaulFertser> Of course it's supposed to be a question to get a wider picture during a discussion.
2020-10-30T17:12:32 < Cracki> does the boss/customer require it to be certified, what's the warranty, shipping time, *cost*, what color is the bike shed, ...
2020-10-30T17:13:01 < Cracki> if you don't like the question you're given, rephrase and answer that instead? that's the politician's way
2020-10-30T17:13:09 < PaulFertser> Cracki: why do you need to guess when you can ask the questioner?
2020-10-30T17:13:32 < Cracki> it's implied that they want you to guess and "talk a lot"
2020-10-30T17:13:41 < Cracki> sure you can say "could you be more specific"
2020-10-30T17:13:57 < Cracki> they may not have the brain capacity to handle that request
2020-10-30T17:13:59 < jpa-> yeah, it is not clear when they want an answer and when they want discussion
2020-10-30T17:14:12 < PaulFertser> That's not a specific way to ask the questioner though. You can ask about priorities or about the type of circuit where this opamp is going to be used etc.
2020-10-30T17:14:29 < jpa-> a better discussion opener would be "We want to measure current from a shunt resistor using a microcontroller, how would you go about it?"
2020-10-30T17:15:24 < PaulFertser> jpa-: in this case they might just use a ready-made template from their head without really understanding it.
2020-10-30T17:15:32 < Cracki> responding to an unspecific question with an unspecific question would be my kind of humor if I've decided the interview is over and I want them to say so
2020-10-30T17:16:00 < PaulFertser> But why not respond with a specific question to an unspecific question without ending the interview?
2020-10-30T17:16:10 < Cracki> _if_
2020-10-30T17:16:24 < Cracki> I'm using perl syntax here
2020-10-30T17:16:31 < Cracki> postfix condition
2020-10-30T17:17:18 < jpa-> i wonder if i should have started a "wide discussion" when i was asked "Are you familiar with XML, NET and DLL?"
2020-10-30T17:17:25 < jpa-> i just said "Yeah." and got the place :)
2020-10-30T17:17:42 < Cracki> "are you" requests a yes/no answer
2020-10-30T17:17:43 < jpa-> some interview questions are stupid
2020-10-30T17:17:48 < Cracki> if they ask that, they get a syllable
2020-10-30T17:18:02 < Cracki> excuse me do you have the time? yes.
2020-10-30T17:18:09 < jpa-> yeah, and "What is .." questions kinda imply a short answer also
2020-10-30T17:18:28 < Cracki> "what is" is the type of question on an exam where they want verbatim definitions or they fail you
2020-10-30T17:18:31 < jpa-> "What would you consider" or "How would you go about selecting" would imply longer discussion
2020-10-30T17:19:23 < mawk> lol germany is blocking french sanctions on turkey, I think I know why
2020-10-30T17:19:31 < Steffanx> What questions did your latest boss ask you jpa-?
2020-10-30T17:19:32 < mawk> merkel is dead afraid of the million turks on her soil
2020-10-30T17:19:34 < Cracki> nobody sanctions turkey
2020-10-30T17:19:46 < Cracki> I wish. she's our fearless führer.
2020-10-30T17:19:51 < mawk> lol
2020-10-30T17:19:53 < Cracki> lockdown beginning monday.
2020-10-30T17:20:04 < Cracki> fuck the german economy, fuck the german people
2020-10-30T17:20:11 < jpa-> Steffanx: that XML place was the latest i was employed at, i've been freelancering for 3 years now
2020-10-30T17:20:20 < mawk> here in NL I don't know, marky rutty said he will see if it gets better or something, but I don't have much hope
2020-10-30T17:20:27 < Steffanx> I was referring to boss jpa-, jpa- :P
2020-10-30T17:20:34 < mawk> I should go see mistress mawk before it starts
2020-10-30T17:20:50 < Cracki> listen to their words. they talk as if to children. "if you behave, there won't be a lockdown"
2020-10-30T17:21:04 < jpa-> Steffanx: oh, he is just asking me "where's all the profit? why are you spending so much time on this project? why aren't you even doing any work?"
2020-10-30T17:21:10 < Steffanx> No, "we" in the north are doing well, you fuckers in the south and west are the fucking screw ups mawk
2020-10-30T17:21:19 < jpa-> and the boss mini-jpa is asking "daddy can you shorten this brick piece"
2020-10-30T17:21:23 < Steffanx> oh, he is a good manager jpa-
2020-10-30T17:25:09 < mawk> lol Steffanx 
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2020-10-30T21:40:55 < mawk> Steffanx https://youtu.be/L1VuoMPEen8
2020-10-30T21:40:57 < mawk> best kick I've heard so far
2020-10-30T21:40:59 -!- c10ud^ [~c10ud@emesene/dictator/c10ud] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds]
2020-10-30T21:41:14 < mawk> starts at around 1:00
2020-10-30T21:41:55 < Steffanx> closed.
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2020-10-30T21:42:18 < mawk> whyyyy
2020-10-30T21:42:27 < BrainDamage> speaking of freelancer, where did dongs go?
2020-10-30T21:42:29 < mawk> best kick
2020-10-30T21:42:44 < Steffanx> he's here?
2020-10-30T21:42:47 < Steffanx> and on thegram.
2020-10-30T21:42:54 < mawk> which freelancer
2020-10-30T21:43:04 < mawk> reopen the track Steffanx 
2020-10-30T21:43:50 < mawk> it's french
2020-10-30T21:44:00 -!- hornang [~quassel@185.56.185.179] has joined ##stm32
2020-10-30T21:44:05 < mawk> it's our friend DJ Radium from Micropoint
2020-10-30T21:45:29 < BrainDamage> PaulFertser: fwiw, the chief figure for an opamp is not the gain, but the GBWP, gain bandwith product
2020-10-30T21:46:17 < BrainDamage> however, the dominant pole is almost always within 10-20Hz, so as conseguence the gain becomes the GBWP
2020-10-30T21:47:07 < BrainDamage> and the GBWP is interesting because it remains constant when you negative feedback it
2020-10-30T21:47:44 < BrainDamage> so if the opamp has say, 1GHz GBWP, you can have a 1GHz buffer, or gain 10 at 100MHz, etc
2020-10-30T21:48:16 < Steffanx> negative feedback is my speciality.
2020-10-30T21:48:28 < BrainDamage> on ebay?
2020-10-30T21:48:50 -!- fenugrec [~fenugrec@97.107.220.18] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds]
2020-10-30T21:48:51 < Steffanx> everywhere
2020-10-30T21:49:00 < mawk> especially here 
2020-10-30T21:49:03 < mawk> on my tracks
2020-10-30T21:49:12 < mawk> you dirty dutch
2020-10-30T21:52:31 < BrainDamage> track marks
2020-10-30T21:57:10 < Steffanx> go home, frog.
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2020-10-30T21:58:05 < kakinerd> my musics meme is taking over this channel
2020-10-30T22:09:04 < Steffanx> meme?
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2020-10-30T22:15:05 < upgrdman> got an email from a user of my TelemetryViewer software... from someone at Ferrari. cool.
2020-10-30T22:15:18 < Steffanx> lol
2020-10-30T22:15:24 < Steffanx>  \o/
2020-10-30T22:15:26 < zyp> nice
2020-10-30T22:15:29 < upgrdman> Steffanx, srsly. from his work email address
2020-10-30T22:15:53 < Steffanx> i believe you ;)
2020-10-30T22:16:01 < zyp> is he complaining that it's too slow?
2020-10-30T22:16:17 < upgrdman> haha, no. just a feature request, that i was already planning to do
2020-10-30T22:16:42 < Steffanx> The formula one team wants to use it to cheat (again)
2020-10-30T22:16:50 < upgrdman> right now i just let the user specify a scalar to apply to raw values. he asked for offset/gain, which i also need, and plan to add.
2020-10-30T22:17:17 < GenTooMan> they aren't the new england patricheats are they?
2020-10-30T22:17:30 < upgrdman> ?
2020-10-30T22:17:34 < GenTooMan> sorry US joke.
2020-10-30T22:17:53 < Steffanx> Yeah, does not land
2020-10-30T22:17:56 < GenTooMan> one of the teams here is notorious for doing anything to win LOL.
2020-10-30T22:18:16 < GenTooMan> including wire taping 
2020-10-30T22:18:42 < Steffanx> Maybe it wasnt cheating, but seeking the limits of the rules. Like "tricking" fuel flow sensors.
2020-10-30T22:19:15 < Steffanx> I'd love to work for a f1 team. Probably hard work, but the creative things they can come up with is nice.
2020-10-30T22:21:44 < GenTooMan> environmental adjustment for the vehicle is fun stuff.
2020-10-30T22:22:31 < Steffanx> but i couldnt deal with the overpaid drivers. They go crybaby "FIX MY CAR!! EVEN IF IT TAKES YOU ALL DAY AND NIGHT" when THEY break the car. And they go crybaby when the car breaks due to software and/or hardware issues.
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2020-10-30T22:23:38 < Laurenceb> Be careful, patriots; a STORM is coming. Be cautious with what you share. We’re going to watch fireworks from hell—no need to be collateral damage. I am reminding you all as much as I am reminding myself.Keep emotions at bay. God’s patriots are in control, chillax, comfy.
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2020-10-30T22:24:18 < upgrdman> lol
2020-10-30T22:24:32 < mawk> poor bloke
2020-10-30T22:24:45 < Steffanx> Yeah, when he just joins to dump his dumb shit he beter leaves.
2020-10-30T22:25:03 < mawk> :(
2020-10-30T22:25:15 < mawk> he pastes it here because we're his friends
2020-10-30T22:25:48 < Steffanx> That's why -offtopic was invented
2020-10-30T22:26:05 < GenTooMan> so it would be nice if some of the 64pin tqfp parts of the STM32 had some FMC support. 
2020-10-30T22:26:25 < mawk> you know very well that -offtopic is a secret nazi channel Steffanx 
2020-10-30T22:26:31 < mawk> and is not really for offtopic
2020-10-30T22:26:48 < upgrdman> fmc == fsmc ?
2020-10-30T22:26:56 < Steffanx> its fsmc without the s
2020-10-30T22:27:03 < upgrdman> so more flexible?
2020-10-30T22:27:14 < mawk> https://wiki.st.com/stm32mpu/wiki/FMC_internal_peripheral
2020-10-30T22:28:34 < Steffanx> Yeah, it also does non-static. ;)
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2020-10-30T22:30:14 < Steffanx> Just embrace the 36 extra pins GenTooMan
2020-10-30T22:31:38  * GenTooMan cries like an F1 driver when his favourite instrument isn't on the dash. 
2020-10-30T22:32:44 < mawk> do you like gentoo GenTooMan ?
2020-10-30T22:34:04 < GenTooMan> mawk I ran it tell 5 years ago then when trying to get nvidia drivers to support my display card to work, it died horribly. After which I switched to debian, and my display drivers suddenly worked correctly. :/
2020-10-30T22:34:20 < mawk> ah good
2020-10-30T22:34:23 < mawk> debian über alles
2020-10-30T22:34:42 < mawk> debian is de lekkerste distro
2020-10-30T22:35:16 < GenTooMan> also I do understand why they don't support the F(s)MC it's just "dang that would be really handy" was on my mind when looking at my 64pin nucleo board.
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2020-10-30T22:36:53 < GenTooMan> debian works also it's interesting to watch the development cycle with backports.
2020-10-30T22:37:36 < GenTooMan> still have to bypass everything on occasion because things like yosys can get way behind.
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2020-10-30T23:36:18 < kakinerd> install gentoo
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2020-10-30T23:58:43 < GenTooMan> I'll try it out on my old machine not the updated one as I need a working computer :D
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2020-10-31T00:51:03 < Cracki> youtube is talking shit https://torrentfreak.com/deciphering-youtubes-rolling-cypher-in-your-browser-is-a-piece-of-cake-201030/
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2020-10-31T01:13:31 < mawk> why are they writing cyphher
2020-10-31T01:13:32 < mawk> cypher
2020-10-31T01:14:18 < qyx> mouser offline?
2020-10-31T01:14:26 < qyx> I was curious too with the y
2020-10-31T01:14:48 < qyx> nicht verfügbar, ja
2020-10-31T01:17:13 < Cracki> they call it "cypher" because yt needs to pretend like it has effective protection measures (which it doesn't)
2020-10-31T01:17:28 < Cracki> if you mean cipher/cypher, ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
2020-10-31T01:18:30 < Cracki> all I see them do is pass around tokens. whatever mechanisms they have to decide if a particular browser+ip+person+whatever gets to see something, as soon as it plays in the browser, shit's downloadable
2020-10-31T01:19:00 < Cracki> and I really fucking hope that nobody will decide to implement actual effective DRM (HDCP-compliant) for browsers
2020-10-31T01:19:24 < Cracki> google could do that to chrome but then they'd basically require chrome and no other browser to view their shit
2020-10-31T01:20:01 < Cracki> I doubt they'll do that
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2020-10-31T01:33:15 < Laurenceb> Q Research Deutschland ersetzt schädliche Ideen durch bessere. Wir glauben, dass die Anwendung von Gewalt nur ein schlechtes Argument ist. Wir sind Forscher, die sich mit Open-Source Informationen und informierten Meinungen beschäftigen. Wir brauchen weder Gewalt noch dulden wir die Anwendung von Gewalt bei unserer Arbeit hier.
2020-10-31T01:33:59 < Laurenceb> Der Weg des einen ist unser aller Weg!
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2020-10-31T01:59:10 < qyx> Tokyo Denki Kagaku Kogyo (Tokyo Electro-Chemical Industry) was our original company name until we changed to the short form TDK in 1983
2020-10-31T01:59:13 < qyx> uh
2020-10-31T01:59:50 < Cracki> good idea
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2020-10-31T03:21:44 < Cracki> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P9VVa9NahSQ
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2020-10-31T13:55:48 < kakiwinter> coding musics required
2020-10-31T13:55:56 -!- kakiwinter is now known as kakicode
2020-10-31T13:57:33 < Steffanx> Try to open a window and listen to the birds
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2020-10-31T14:02:01 < kakicode> no birds
2020-10-31T14:02:19 < Steffanx> Here try https://youtu.be/FuFJzY10mqc
2020-10-31T14:02:32 < Steffanx> Its becoming a hit here in dutchland
2020-10-31T14:02:39 < kakicode> maybe some great tits
2020-10-31T14:02:47 < kakicode> but they don't sing that much in winter
2020-10-31T14:04:13 < kakicode> thx steff
2020-10-31T14:04:32 < kakicode> it inspires codes
2020-10-31T14:04:39 < qyx> no birds outsid today
2020-10-31T14:04:47 < qyx> only people waiting for covid tests
2020-10-31T14:05:34 < Steffanx> jpa-: this is you how you should play tim.exe with the kid https://youtu.be/mm1NfUUCJgc
2020-10-31T14:05:41 < kakicode> play musics to them from your appartment qyx
2020-10-31T14:06:22 < qyx> I can play musics to reindeer more likely
2020-10-31T14:07:29 < qyx> no other houses closer than 300m, except the neighbor
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2020-10-31T14:13:54 < kakicode> what do you mean
2020-10-31T14:14:15 < superbia> sup
2020-10-31T14:14:27 < kakicode> you have neighbors so close to you?
2020-10-31T14:15:45 < superbia> Steffanx: sup dog
2020-10-31T14:44:09 < kakicode> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PqbB07n_uQ4
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2020-10-31T15:33:38 < Steffanx> Should I really watch that kakicode ?
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2020-10-31T15:49:19 < kakicode> Steffanx: not necessarily
2020-10-31T15:49:54 < kakicode> they made chatbot with pretty nice graphical interface
2020-10-31T15:50:17 < Steffanx> Still just a boring chatbot
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2020-10-31T17:45:14 < jadew> linux brilliance: The minor device number is contained in the combination of bits 31 to 20 and 7 to 0; the major device number is in bits 15 to 8.
2020-10-31T17:48:40 < Cracki> so it used to be two bytes, and someone then allocated 16-19 for something and ..31 for the rest?
2020-10-31T17:48:52 < jadew> 16-19 is unused
2020-10-31T17:48:57 < jadew> but yeah, that's what it looks like
2020-10-31T17:48:58 < Cracki> UNUSED?!?!
2020-10-31T17:49:04 < jadew> haha, yeah
2020-10-31T17:49:34 < jadew> I assume they thought they might use it for the major device number
2020-10-31T17:49:40 < jadew> in case they ever needed a couple more bits
2020-10-31T17:51:00 < apathy> yea it is probably some weird backwards compatability thing
2020-10-31T17:51:18 < apathy> so old bitpacked structs don't break or w/e
2020-10-31T17:51:55 < benishor> it's always good to reserve
2020-10-31T17:52:00 < jadew> yes, but that wouldn't have been an issue, if the communication between kernel and other programs didn't happen via fucking text formatted pseudo-files
2020-10-31T17:52:32 < jadew> if it was some struct and an API call, they could have fixed this
2020-10-31T17:52:46 < jadew> but instead they have a number... in text.
2020-10-31T17:53:00 < Cracki> how about two numbers in text
2020-10-31T17:53:07 < jadew> they actually have more than two
2020-10-31T17:53:09 < Cracki> only binary fuckery would require fuckery
2020-10-31T17:53:13 < jadew> but in this case, that was the issue
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2020-10-31T18:13:04 < apathy> to be fair aren't the device ids in the usb device descriptors on the device itself all in BCD?
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2020-10-31T18:33:57 < Cracki> lol liquid metal (gallium) as thermal paste eats all the solder joins and aluminium unibody https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6kdxrfmdWzM
2020-10-31T18:41:15 < kakicode> I have galium alloy in my laptop
2020-10-31T18:41:36 < kakicode> +20% more single core performance as this is power restricted design
2020-10-31T18:41:46 < kakicode> no gain to multicore performance
2020-10-31T18:42:04 < kakicode> 15W processor is restricted to 7W
2020-10-31T18:42:39 < kakicode> boom shaka laka
2020-10-31T18:42:50 < Cracki> I saw it said that one or two mfgs use liquid metal, but with a rubber dam around it
2020-10-31T18:43:13 < kakicode> I added it myself
2020-10-31T18:47:21 < mawk> gallium as thermal paste what
2020-10-31T18:47:32 < mawk> I had liquid metal thermal paste in my laptop as well
2020-10-31T18:47:35 < mawk> that stuff is a pain to remove
2020-10-31T18:47:40 < mawk> actually couldn't remove it even mechanically
2020-10-31T18:47:47 < mawk> I just added new normal paste on top of the residuues
2020-10-31T18:48:22 < mawk> scrubbing a processor with a metal knife felt a bit risky to do for a long time
2020-10-31T18:53:06 < kakicode> you don't change liquid metal
2020-10-31T18:53:09 < kakicode> just apply
2020-10-31T18:53:14 < kakicode> nor remove it
2020-10-31T18:57:15 < mawk> why
2020-10-31T18:57:27 < mawk> I could remove some of it
2020-10-31T18:57:30 < mawk> but then I was too tired scrubbing
2020-10-31T18:58:49 < kakicode> I don't know if it's completelly removable
2020-10-31T18:59:11 < kakicode> it just leaves residue that you spread everywhere while trying to get rid of it
2020-10-31T18:59:46 < mawk> maybe mine wasn't really that gallium thing
2020-10-31T18:59:51 < mawk> because it's very hard stuff
2020-10-31T18:59:52 < kakicode> I don't know maybe package tape (pro trick) could adhere to it
2020-10-31T18:59:57 < mawk> it doesn't spread
2020-10-31T19:00:03 < mawk> package tape?
2020-10-31T19:00:10 < kakicode> then it wasn't liquid metal
2020-10-31T19:00:17 < mawk> well they sold it as "liquid metal"
2020-10-31T19:00:19 < mawk> but I didn't see it
2020-10-31T19:00:22 < mawk> the seller applied it himself
2020-10-31T19:00:34 < kakicode> seller was confused
2020-10-31T19:00:45 < mawk> it looks really like metal though
2020-10-31T19:00:55 < kakicode> maybe it went bad somehow
2020-10-31T19:01:06 < kakicode> or it was just metal colored thermal paste
2020-10-31T19:01:21 < kakicode> like arctic silver or smth
2020-10-31T19:01:58 < kakicode> that is more likelly
2020-10-31T19:02:15 < Cracki> if it's pasty, it's paste. if it runs like quicksilver, it's liquid metal
2020-10-31T19:02:16 < mawk> but then I would be able to remove it like any other paste no?
2020-10-31T19:02:20 < mawk> it neither
2020-10-31T19:02:25 < mawk> it's like cold solder
2020-10-31T19:02:30 < Cracki> I've seen pastes that are basically superglue
2020-10-31T19:03:08 < Cracki> you'd bend the heatspreader or break the die before the joint gives
2020-10-31T19:03:35 < mawk> I bent the heat pipe, maybe I should buy new ones
2020-10-31T19:03:39 < kakicode> idk if there is thing where the alloy breaks down and part of it becomes solid
2020-10-31T19:03:41 < mawk> but the computer doesn't go vroom
2020-10-31T19:03:45 < mawk> so probably it's not totally clogged
2020-10-31T19:04:25 < Cracki> the only stuff that turned solid was regular paste
2020-10-31T19:05:12 < Cracki> if they mix silver in it, I'm sure it does nothing but look cool
2020-10-31T19:05:18 < mawk> lol
2020-10-31T19:06:17 < Cracki> >polymerizable liquid matrix
2020-10-31T19:06:31 < Cracki> and thermally conductive filler, ic
2020-10-31T19:06:38 < Cracki> >Typical matrix materials are epoxies, silicones, urethanes, and acrylates
2020-10-31T19:06:51 < Cracki> yeah that might solidify
2020-10-31T19:10:54 < apathy> mawk: 
2020-10-31T19:11:03 < apathy> why is a christian priest being shot in france newsworthy?
2020-10-31T19:11:15 < apathy> i thought they were only supposed to report on "peaceful refugees" being killed by white people
2020-10-31T19:11:23 < mawk> lol
2020-10-31T19:11:28 < mawk> it's an orthodox priest
2020-10-31T19:11:33 < mawk> of a russian church
2020-10-31T19:12:11 < apathy> oh that makes sense now
2020-10-31T19:12:34 < apathy> trying to coax a russian response so the USA can take more of our rights away
2020-10-31T19:23:13 < Steffanx> Stop being such crybaby, apathy.
2020-10-31T19:24:01  * apathy cries
2020-10-31T19:26:18  * apathy cries about messing up his buffers arrangement and not realising this isn't the dumpster fire -offtopic
2020-10-31T19:39:02 < Cracki> reality is leaking into this dimension
2020-10-31T19:41:03 < Cracki> I think it's working too. I hear less shrieking from cognitive dissonance lately. either the demons have resigned and fled, or their brains melted.
2020-10-31T19:59:50 < jadew> gallium can be both solid and liquid
2020-10-31T19:59:57 < jadew> depends on the room temperature
2020-10-31T20:00:21 < jadew> so liquid metal could very well look like normal cold solder if the room temperature is low enough
2020-10-31T20:01:25 < Cracki> wp says plain gallium turns solid around 29C. they probably use alloys to keep it liquid at less than tropical room temperature
2020-10-31T20:01:26 < jadew> wiki says that "Elemental gallium is a liquid at temperatures greater than 29.76 °C"
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2020-10-31T20:09:30 < mawk> processor is way more than 30°C so it's never elemental gallium jadew 
2020-10-31T20:09:38 < mawk> and when it's an alloy the m.p. is much higher
2020-10-31T20:09:40 < mawk> or an amalgam
2020-10-31T20:09:50 < jadew> mawk, I'm not sure where it's used
2020-10-31T20:09:59 < jadew> but if it's used as thermal paste, then maybe it doesn't matter
2020-10-31T20:10:10 < mawk> it would drip and short stuff on the mobo I think
2020-10-31T20:10:14 < mawk> unless it's somewhat contained
2020-10-31T20:11:37 -!- fenugrec [~fenugrec@97.107.220.18] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds]
2020-10-31T20:14:56 < Cracki> throw this at the climate change nuts, make them push nuclear https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KkpqA8yG9T4
2020-10-31T20:15:28 < Cracki> mawk, I saw an amalgam listed on wikipedia that claims melting point below freezing water
2020-10-31T20:15:48 < mawk> yeah I meant amalgamation will at least shift the melting point
2020-10-31T20:15:52 < mawk> but I guess in some cases it could be lower yeah
2020-10-31T20:15:54 < Cracki> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gallium#Galinstan_and_other_alloys
2020-10-31T20:15:56 < Cracki> -19C
2020-10-31T20:16:00 < mawk> galinstan lol
2020-10-31T20:16:04 < mawk> looks like the name of an islamic country
2020-10-31T20:16:18 < Cracki> gaulinstan
2020-10-31T20:17:06 < Cracki> capillary action should keep it between die and heatsink
2020-10-31T20:17:13 < Cracki> unless it just seeps into the heatsink's bulk
2020-10-31T20:18:27 < Cracki> unless there's so much that it just drips... which is what the rossmann had to deal with
2020-10-31T20:19:34 < mawk> I see
2020-10-31T20:19:41 < mawk> well on my core there was some kind of tape
2020-10-31T20:19:47 < mawk> apparently to prevent it from going away
2020-10-31T20:19:50 < mawk> but it wasn't liquid at all
2020-10-31T20:19:54 < Cracki> it looks like it had adhesion when he attacked it with qtips and tweezers
2020-10-31T20:19:58 < mawk> it dried up
2020-10-31T20:20:04 < Cracki> he could also pick up globs of the shit with tweezers, which surprises me
2020-10-31T20:21:09 < Cracki> it was otherwise like molten solder, including oxidation(?) on the surface
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2020-10-31T21:22:57 < emeb> Mouser still offline. Wonder WTF is going on over there.
2020-10-31T21:23:51 < effractur> ransomeware
2020-10-31T21:24:01 < effractur> is most of the times the awnser if stuff is offline for long
2020-10-31T21:24:10 < emeb> I'd buy that.
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2020-10-31T21:32:06 < Steffanx> lol effractur i like your optimism.
2020-10-31T21:36:00 < Cracki> >The site is temporarily unavailable. Please contact your local branch for immediate assistance...  https://www.mouser.de/
2020-10-31T21:36:22 < Cracki> co.uk and com don't load at all for me
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2020-10-31T21:44:08 < Steffanx> .com loads for me and says the same indeed. Twatter has mentions about it from yesterday as well
2020-10-31T21:44:42 < Steffanx> What did you do mr emeb
2020-10-31T21:44:56 < emeb> Steffanx: Ooops. :)
2020-10-31T21:50:24 < qyx> .sk is down sice yesterday evening
2020-10-31T21:51:06 < qyx> hm, now it works
2020-10-31T21:54:31 < Steffanx> works or .. "The site is temporarily unavailable. Please contact your local branch for immediate assistance..." mr qyx?
2020-10-31T21:55:34 < Cracki> whole site shows up now
2020-10-31T21:55:38 < Cracki> on .de at least
2020-10-31T21:59:00 < qyx> works
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2020-10-31T22:00:21 < Steffanx> .sk/.de doesnt here, but .com does. -_-
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2020-10-31T22:05:28 < mawk> I need to buy hard drugs on the street Steffanx 
2020-10-31T22:05:34 < mawk> my prescription is out
2020-10-31T22:05:40 < mawk> where would I go for that
2020-10-31T22:06:05 < mawk> in Paris it's easy, go next to the government shooting room
2020-10-31T22:06:17 < mawk> Lariboisière
2020-10-31T22:06:44 < Steffanx> Do i look like someone who knows where to buy drugs on the street?
2020-10-31T22:06:48 < mawk> yes
2020-10-31T22:06:52 < emeb> mouser back in US.
2020-10-31T22:06:52 < mawk> no?
2020-10-31T22:07:05 < Steffanx> I wouldnt even know where to get weed, except for in the coffeeshop
2020-10-31T22:08:20 < Cracki> coffeeshops might have advice for the harder stuff
2020-10-31T22:08:58 < mawk> I'm afraid they play it too legal already
2020-10-31T22:08:59 < Cracki> doesn't NL have "government shooting rooms"?
2020-10-31T22:09:01 < effractur> naa afaik most stuff is ordered trough whatssapp numbers
2020-10-31T22:09:05 < mawk> and w would call the cops
2020-10-31T22:09:08 < mawk> ah
2020-10-31T22:09:17 < effractur> and they deliver within 30min 
2020-10-31T22:09:22 < effractur> what i heared
2020-10-31T22:09:28 < mawk> should get one of them so
2020-10-31T22:09:46 < effractur> but quite nice benchmark to know how shitty a city is
2020-10-31T22:09:49 < effractur> order pizza and drugs
2020-10-31T22:09:50 < Steffanx> oh, effractur might be more into this mawk. He is more from your region :P
2020-10-31T22:09:51 < effractur> see what is quicker
2020-10-31T22:09:54 < mawk> lol
2020-10-31T22:10:19 < mawk> the corona high score region
2020-10-31T22:10:20 < Cracki> can I get uhhhh boneless drug
2020-10-31T22:10:24 < effractur> ut noclue i don't do drugs
2020-10-31T22:10:26 < mawk> lol
2020-10-31T22:10:41 < Steffanx> The farmers are in the north, the screw ups are more in the south mawk.
2020-10-31T22:10:46 < mawk> lol
2020-10-31T22:10:52 < mawk> nobody needs farmers anyway
2020-10-31T22:10:58 < mawk> just order your food on ali
2020-10-31T22:11:23 < Cracki> if I order fungi, what will they turn into after a month stuck in customs
2020-10-31T22:11:41 < mawk> probably something disgusting
2020-10-31T22:11:44 < mawk> but still active
2020-10-31T22:11:51 < Cracki> fungi on fungi
2020-10-31T22:11:52 < mawk> only heat will kill the compound
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2020-10-31T22:11:55 < mawk> lol
2020-10-31T22:12:09 < mawk> inactivated around 60°C
2020-10-31T22:12:20 < Cracki> oh right, we consider mold a fungus here. may not be universal.
2020-10-31T22:12:25 < mawk> so don't brew tea of it
2020-10-31T22:12:34 < Cracki> I was thinking, if you order pizza on aliex, it'll be mold after a month
2020-10-31T22:12:50 < Cracki> tea from moldy pizza, I'll ask google if it knows
2020-10-31T22:13:28 < Cracki> it denies any knowledge, suggests "can tea get moldy"
2020-10-31T22:14:00 < mawk> don't brew tea of mushroom
2020-10-31T22:14:03 < mawk> not pizza
2020-10-31T22:19:57 < qyx> The NEO-M8Q-01A module integrates a DC/DC converter, allowing reduced power consumption
2020-10-31T22:20:00 < qyx> especially when using a main supply voltage above 2.5 V.
2020-10-31T22:20:20 < qyx> I assume there is no point in adding a low noise LDO before the module
2020-10-31T22:22:30 < qyx> maybe I'll just filter the vcc and feed 3V3 from a smps
2020-10-31T22:22:38 < qyx> "Use a proper GND concept. Do not use any resistors or coils in the power line."
2020-10-31T22:22:40 < qyx> ok, maybe not.
2020-10-31T22:25:39 < mawk> what's a proper ground concept
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2020-10-31T22:39:19 < mawk> I found a dutch seller named PostNL Steffanx 
2020-10-31T22:39:21 < mawk> do you think it's legit?
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2020-10-31T22:40:27 < kakicode> my china shit comes from postNL
2020-10-31T22:40:37 < mawk> https://i.imgur.com/w5Nkvmy.png
2020-10-31T22:46:45 < qyx> looks like we managed to test more than one million today
2020-10-31T22:46:52 < qyx> of ~5.5mil population total
2020-10-31T22:47:37 < qyx> (with Ag screening tests only)
2020-10-31T22:47:45 < qyx> ##covid32
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2020-10-31T22:48:52 < qyx> last week it was around 3.5% positive (of a random sample) in northern parts, now it seems to be under 1%
2020-10-31T22:49:15 < qyx> not entirely random, 10-65 aged
2020-10-31T22:52:55 < Steffanx> uh what mawk?
2020-10-31T22:53:03 < mawk> mix everyone's blood, test whole population at a time
2020-10-31T22:53:07 < mawk> problem solved
2020-10-31T22:53:30 < mawk> you didn't see the picture Steffanx ? the post office is selling me heroin
2020-10-31T22:53:55 < Steffanx> ok..
2020-10-31T22:54:06 < mawk> it's a new governmental service
2020-10-31T22:54:29 < Steffanx> except that postnl isnt govermental
2020-10-31T22:54:36 < mawk> even better
2020-10-31T22:54:37 < Steffanx> Just get that prescription renewed.
2020-10-31T22:54:43 < mawk> I can't
2020-10-31T22:54:48 < Steffanx> Yes you can
2020-10-31T22:54:48 < mawk> not now anyway
2020-10-31T22:54:52 < mawk> I have to wait
2020-10-31T22:55:10 < Steffanx> So why you wait again till the last moment?
2020-10-31T22:55:18 < mawk> lol
2020-10-31T22:55:23 < mawk> no idea
2020-10-31T22:55:35 < mawk> next time I'll put the date in my agenda
2020-10-31T23:20:59 < Cracki> that clump of dry cocoa is a narcotic?
2020-10-31T23:24:46 < Cracki> hm https://thenextweb.com/the-next-police/2018/11/29/ai-scanner-detect-drugs-mail/
2020-10-31T23:25:25 < Cracki> >proved too effective
2020-10-31T23:26:00 < mawk> lol
2020-10-31T23:26:30 < Cracki> I'm sure "the post office" isn't selling stuff
2020-10-31T23:26:59 < mawk> it's just a seller that took "postnl" as a name
2020-10-31T23:27:03 < Cracki> ic
2020-10-31T23:27:23 < Cracki> shooting neutrons at post, that sounds illegal
2020-10-31T23:27:33 < mawk> aren't neutrons making stuff radioactive?
2020-10-31T23:27:37 < Cracki> yep
2020-10-31T23:27:47 < Cracki> I'm not a physicist. maybe they use low energies.
2020-10-31T23:27:47 < mawk> This post is brought to you by the Dutch police.
2020-10-31T23:28:01 < Cracki> but they do talk about radiation patterns so _something_ is going on
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2020-10-31T23:28:44 < Cracki> >in the future we'll pry into everything we can because law hasn't caught up with the possibility
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2020-10-31T23:32:29 < GenTooMan> obviously the people trying to do the wrong thing as usual end up having the entire population punished.
2020-10-31T23:33:17 < mawk> it's wrong only in your small moral framework GenTooMan 
2020-10-31T23:35:15 < Cracki> this is basically for medical purposes
2020-10-31T23:35:39 < Cracki> even for recreational uses, I'd say let people have the stuff, legalize it, tax it (hint hint), whatever
2020-10-31T23:35:58 < GenTooMan> mawk seems someone is a bit out to be nasty aren't we?
2020-10-31T23:36:10 < Cracki> <º))))><
2020-10-31T23:36:23 < mawk> lol
2020-10-31T23:36:35 < Cracki> the people trying to do the wrong thing, who's that :>
2020-10-31T23:36:57 < mawk> the goal of morality is to maximize total wellbeing in some manner
2020-10-31T23:37:03 < mawk> so I will maximize my wellbeing right now
2020-10-31T23:37:07 < mawk> by not suffering like I'm dying for 2 weeks
2020-10-31T23:37:22 < Cracki> I don't want anyone peering into my mail. we as a society have already agreed that letters are private. that should extend to packages.
2020-10-31T23:37:22 < mawk> which will in turn keep me a productive element of society
2020-10-31T23:37:28 < mawk> and pay for your retirement fund
2020-10-31T23:37:36 < mawk> yeah
2020-10-31T23:38:45 < Cracki> there's a distinction between information (letters carry mostly that) vs goods (needs third dimension)
2020-10-31T23:39:12 < Cracki> and they only gave up trying to control information because it can literally not be contained
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2020-10-31T23:40:14 < Cracki> inspecting wares as part of import/export, I can go along with that. domestically, get your noses out of my packages
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2020-10-31T23:44:40 < Cracki> great, the downstairs retards have decided to annoy me with bass again
2020-10-31T23:48:16 < zyp> can I annoy you with bass too?
2020-10-31T23:48:16 < mawk> put louder bass
2020-10-31T23:48:55 < mawk> play frenchcore, there's french in it it cannot be bad
2020-10-31T23:49:09 < zyp> s/bad/good/
2020-10-31T23:49:16 < kakicode> frenchcore +1
2020-10-31T23:51:07 < mawk> :(
2020-10-31T23:51:45 < Steffanx> Go back to your sauna kakicode, pleeease
2020-10-31T23:52:00 < kakicode> no sauna today only code
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--- Log closed Sun Nov 01 00:00:37 2020